and families for their work opportunities and diverse lifestyle offerings, , so the average number of hours worked, per week minimum number of vacation days offered average amount of time spent travelling to work, gender parity and perceived level of happiness were among the factors taken into consideration when wrecking the cities and the fact that singapore got so low


on the ranking showed that shows that compared to, uh elsewhere around the world, uh we work more we have less vacation and uh yeah we are unhappy we shows that art


in this kind of , in this kind of uh society is, not just luxury but essential in order to reduce our stress and reduce and increase our happiness


okay, so jeremy's point is that art, is seen as a luxury, because it is associated with wealth in singapore and you brought up places like garden by the bay botanic gardens and esplanade


places with high ticketing fees they are centered in the, so called richer district of singapore and, , in order for people to enjoy this, , these uh these so called attractions, , basically the high entrance fee creates a barrier for those less


uh fortunate to interact, so I disagree, that art is a luxury and I still oppose that art is a necessity, so, art basically makes you think you look at paintings your brain starts working over time and it ponders what the artist is trying to say through their artwork


things like the colors the brush strokes texture each of them tells a story, also as we mentioned earlier art is subjective and is each uh up to us to perceive it based on our own understanding, art also transcends our imagination it makes us time travel to other locations without us ever leaving the spot


then we feel a piece of art, for example let's say we view a medieval times painting, we look at their clothing expressions environment and that makes us feel like we are right there with them, on top of that art is a universal language, art is a visual language which help which helps comprehend the message much faster than words and also makes a lasting impact


whether the artwork originates from india england america whoever in the world you don't need to know their dialect to understand what they are trying to convey because visually it speaks of the same universal language


so I'm I'm uh saying why singaporeans uh need art, and art is beyond a thousand words like art just speaks just art uh, art just fills the gaps where words fail to do justice to the body language emotion and textures


and, let's say the most famous painting of mona lisa no matter how much you ever read about it the true essence will only be felt once you see with your own eyes, it tells stories within minutes and sometimes even within seconds, so singaporeans need art especially since


we are, uh in a very stressful, society like, of course when we think of necessity we think of vital life functions such as food water shelter oxygen, but how about things beyond these


the real scale of human needs is much wider than merely satisfying our physical needs and surely I'm sure you know of the maslow pyramid where the lowest level represents safety and and physiological needs, and upwards there demand for love and self realisation or even self actualisation


in singapore right now uh uh, sorry in singapore right now our safety and physiological needs are definitely fulfilled we are well-to-do country first world country shortage of water and food is never a problem for the vast majority of us shelter is provided by the government as well


I feel the maslow's hierarchy of needs is a motivational theory in psychology that uh comprise of a five-tier model of human needs often uh depicted as hierarchical levels within a pyramid, so as I was saying just now from the bottom of the hierarchy upwards the needs are physiological needs which is fulfilled in singapore safety


love and belonging which is found in friends and family esteem and finally self actualisation, and we can only uh achieve self actualisation, through art, through the creativity through the ability to creatively express ourselves in forms of art


okay I'll pass on to jeremy


yes I , I agree that uh, in singapore students are ingrained with the mindset that art, it's not as important as academics and , even , you compare arts students salary to uh let's say science students salary is undeniable that a science student earns a lot more than arts student


there is no such, there is no such thing as bad art


uh sorry sorry what what do you mean, oh okay so we can just start directly now lah


okay so the question I agrees at is that there is no such thing as bad art, so before we delve into the question and the points that now I'm going to raise, uh first I have to break down the definition of what is art and, art is basically uh in my opinion the expression of


or application of human creative skill and imagination typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture and when you when you do art you are basically producing works to be appreciated, primarily for its beauty and emotional power


also when you create art uh we also have to take into consideration why are we creating, art as well as, that influences that, come come about uh regarding why you delve into art, so uh


since the question is an absolute question that states there is no such thing as bad art uh alright just to check if you can still hear me now right, okay uh we have to break down the word bad and so, when we talked about the word bad it's a very broad word so there're many aspects that are associated with the word bad and so when since you are talking about art I've broken down the word bad into a few different categories lah so the first will be quality and so when we talk about bad uh are we talking about are we discussing about how


the quality of art is bad, uh let's see is the work, uh substandard work depending on how you define that okay the second aspect will be utility of art, so utility of art basically means what is art being used for and its various basically the uh the different ways art can be used so for example can it be


used to as a form of entertainment can it be used, to, in a negative aspect as well such as can it be used to abuse people or basically abuse the abuse of art itself, and also and the last aspect I would like to look, at is the the genuinity of art so how genuine is art as well as whether that can it can it can be forged and can it be reproduced exactly by other people


so the first point I would like to raise is that, art there is no such thing as bad art and I would agree with that because, art is subjective and the notion of bad art or even art alone is not falsifiable so it's impossible to find evidence suggesting that


there is such a thing as bad art, and so in anyone's point of view or in the free will perspective as so I call it, any opinion regarding art has to be considered uh valid it has to be taken into consideration uh it doesn't mean that it's wrong it just means that it's a different opinion from someone else's


so there are many objective ways to judge art such as its composition, its contrast and ultimately the concept which is the basically in my opinion the rationale behind why art is created in the first place, and in that sense art is subjective ah and it is the it is sort of the way one that uses to express themselves


so for example you can see there are many examples in the real world such as uh from the likes of various famous artists such as pablo picasso and not just literal art itself it could be in the form of poetry could be the form film could be in the form of literature


and there are many writers out there such as mary shelley uh and arthur miller who produce great literature books such as uh frankenstein and blame for time uh both of which I have analysed uh previously when I was studying and I when I had taken literature literature yeah


so, yeah yeah that's the end of my argument ryan it's uh yours now


okay uh I don't disagree with you ryan uh in fact I see the, sense in the point you try to raise but from someone who has to agree with the statement that like there is no such thing as bad art let me just bite back the word art and its associations to the human emotion so when one talks about art right uh in my opinion


it is very much uh closely related to the human emotion because in my in my my opinion humans uh use art to create and express not not to create but sorry but to express their emotions in a form of artwork, and so my next point is art there is really no such thing as bad art because


art is always, uh regardless of whichever scenario you are is being used is always used by humans as a symbol of hope and, this symbol of hope is of more often than not used by people who use, who pretty much use art as the venue for them to uh cope and endure through uh times of hardships as well as times of anxiety that may induce stress among them so as a result


uh I feel like I feel that many people will use art as a coping mechanism in order to curb these feelings of negativity and so one uh eh one famous example will be in our in our own society in singapore but uh in the past whereby


uh during the japanese, occupation of singapore in world war two, uh many british prisoners were held held captive in many prisoner of war camps such as the likes of Changi prison which was, quite a big prison in the past


and while being interned there uh many of these soldiers uh used art as a form of hope, in order to keep their morale high because of the hardships they faced such as the torture and suffering they had to experience at the hands of their japanese captors


and so while being interned in Changi prison which was also a chapel at the same time back then, uh one particular british soldier which I've forgotten the name of, but, with the help of others they managed to uh gather charcoal that was salvaged around the camp


and they came up with two murals, uh basically a mural is a painting uh it's a form of art and with one one of them featured a malay maddona which is a religious symbol and the second one featured the five stations of the cross which is quite a strong religious symbol in uh christianity and uh evangelism


and so, uh and up to up to today these murals are still being preserved and they are being held in Changi chapel uh but now that now that the war is over and Changi chapel is a museum many people can go and uh view these murals


yeah uh another a glaring example will be the current situation that we're facing uh which is now that there is a outbreak of a pandemic uh, uh many I'm not sure if you've noticed but many countries in europe particularly uh they have resorted to art as a form of coping and helping each other during such a bad times so


I'm pretty sure you are aware of this uh phenomenon whereby at uh at two zero zero zero hours every night or or eight PM in short, uh many people would flock to their balconies especially for those living in apartments to sing songs of encouragement or like basically really traditional songs that are very closely tied to one to their culture


in order to encourage the healthcare workers who are still at the front lines battling the this horrible disease, and one example of that would could be in italy her many citizens took to the balconies and sang a particular folk song called bella ciao


together and this song actually as much ties to the country's uh uh national identity because, it inspires a sense of camaraderie and uh solidarity in order to stand up against uh this


whole negative situation that we are in so with that it can be seen that art really can serve as a, form of hope for many people especially when, they are facing hardships in life ah uh yeah I mean that right in the floor


okay ryan you were saying something I think you should finish first


okay uh yes I agree with that indeed this is, quite an a sort of the abuse of art lah because uh it's being used to harm it's being used at the expense of the feelings of others as well as uh racial insensitivity and what not but, one should also consider uh that besides the the usage of art is


uh tool to harm someone uh you should also take into account that uh art, art itself is an attempt to communicate and understand communications, uh we among people and that itself is subjective so basically many people many people can have different interpretations regarding what is art and why people create art so for instance one one very beneficial usage of art I will say is that it can be used to convey political uh and


political ideas or reinforce religious ideas, uh or basically to convey any uh personal thoughts as well as emotions like what I said previously since art is closely tied with emotions I feel like, emotions uh called are basically the bulk of why one would create art


and so, as a result of that uh many art pieces that are produced uh in this day and age are, be the most they basically have many underlying meanings that, basically they convey subtle ideas or like


in countries that uh many people face oppression uh, and are unable to speak out to their government, uh art is a good way to for them to express political ideas subtly uh and as well as well as shed light on certain social problems that may or may not


be uh very uh important in that in this time frame and so I feel I feel


oh yeah that that was previously mentioned by you before lah but what I'm saying is that while art can do those things art can also do these things which is what I'm talking about now yeah uh


uh yeah yeah I I agree with you to a certain extent but, uh anyway as I was saying like uh, since this this since art can be used as a form of a way to uh to uh bring across certain uh ideas that may not have been shed light on previously I feel like this is quite beneficial to people because


in a way art is is a, tool lah and it it's a tool that is being used to benefit others, and so and so, for uh for instance uh let me let me just bring up this example of a guy police's been told that exists uh that was quite


uh famous in the late twentieth century I would believe, his name is #zdzisław beksiński# and he's from poland and basically he was a painter and a photographer that and he produced quite controversial pieces of art uh because it featured many disfigured uh humanoid physiques and people found it very unpleasant but


when if you analyse it uh deeply one could also say that this form of art is, uh of sentimental value to the artist himself because it's uh basically some context uh of this painter and photographer right was that he was actually a holocaust survivor and he was a victim of uh the nazi's persecution of the jews and I'd ya okay


singaporeans have appreciate the appeal of theatre, dance or music in our society


uh ryan you may begin the discussion I mean the debate


uh okay so what you've just mentioned are just some examples of the how the government has supported in the arts uh the art scene in singapore so you mentioned about uh Nanyang fine arts academy SOTA, national arts council I believe or some some some similar of uh institution


so while, I do agree like the government has been for your providing sufficient I mean providing, uh this uh this funding for such uh such institutions to uh be exist in singapore and to help our youth perform uh to indulge in the arts more


I do not think that the government is doing enough to support them and and what I mean by this is uh let me just uh bring up the point that uh sorry uh I do not, I do not agree that singapore singaporeans cannot appreciate the appeal of theatre dance or music in our society and that is because there is a lack of opportunities to excel in the arts scene in singapore


what I mean by that is, uh (ppc), okay firstly let me just explain the impact so, when singaporeans uh lack, the opportunities to excel in the arts in singapore basically they won't see arts as a viable career option for them to uh get into when they start


uh thinking about their careers and eventually moving onto it after finishing their education, uh they as a result they will view like our arts culture in singapore as merely a superficial form of entertainment, or as opposed to appreciating uh the meaning as well as the value behind it as well as maybe even the monetary incentive that


it could provide uh as an as a result uh singaporeans might more often then not choose to dwell into more uh how to say uh, technological savvy uh in sunrise industries uh per se such as the science or the science uh science industries as they they would think that these industries are more suitable for


for them to earn uh make a living out of, and this is because uh our government places too much emphasis on uh academics as well as uh heavy focus on mathematics and science based areas uh and I definitely feel that there is not much funding in our arts uh in our arts scene today uh


while in mean mean meanwhile in term in terms of uh science and mathematical uh more heavy heavily based, or uh reliance on mathematical or scientific based industries the government has been putting in quite a lot of funding to support


the development of one's career in these aspects uh one one example would be the A-STAR uh research industry that, that is current that is currently in the meantime being uh sorry they're being they're producing a vaccine for the COVID nineteen and as such this shows the


glaring differences between, the need for science based career as well as uh one that relies more on arts, and also, based on my research and I realised that the majority of artists in singapore struggle to build a career based on their artistic talent and craft and many have to juggle with odd jobs or non-related full time job to be financially sustainable to practice their art


or there are there are different forms of art as a career, and there have been growing concerns about the stringent criteria to qualify and any KPIs or key performance indicators that artists have to meet, uh in order to


you know uh make a living and this is provided by the national arts council uh ya, , uh also uh wait I'm not done yet uh also artists today right have taken like a different path from their peers and and they have been trying to redefine what success looks like to them lah because what they have been doing all this while has most likely been


not be leading them to any form of success in terms of monetary or, uh in terms of gaining more, audience per se uh yeah, and so I feel like, this is mostly due to society's our society's mindset


towards the arts ah and this leads me to my next point which I'll bring up later so uh ryan you can continue


okay so you mentioned earlier that there was this lady I believe who was spray painted stuff around the streets right uh in order to showcase artistic skills, uh, is it do you say that earlier, uh, uh ya this girl called samantha but what I would like to counter it is that do you know that in getting caught or getting on sanction art in singapore will come with like quite serious consequences under the vandalism act and that would mean jail in of up to three years and fines of up to two thousand dollars


or maybe even getting caned four to up eight strokes of of the the the rattan and so, I don't think like people like her are very uh quite a common sight ah because of, such laws that the government has uh implemented which brings me to my next point lah which is singaporeans will will not appreciate art and its different forms not not now and not in the near future because of uh lack of access to more forms of art


or basically to just normal art in general and this is because of the heavy censorship of art by our government in singapore and one example of this would be the like example that provided earlier which is the uh which is the fine and the the caning of up to


eight strokes as well as two thousand dollars if you get caught , creating uncensured art in singapore, another example of that would be uh not sure if you've heard of this short film uh called from singapore with love uh and basically this film it's like a


is produced by this filmmaker which I'm do not recall the uh person's name but it basically went out it basically opposed the, the PAP's beliefs P the PAP is like the incumbent, uh political party in our country I'm sure you know of them and


that short film was subsequently banned by the media, uh development authority because they they claim that it was undermining national security and that, the individuals in the individuals in a film have given distorted and untruthful accounts of how they came to leave singapore and remain outside of singapore


and also it made claims that uh a number of these self-profiled exiles, who are members of the communist party of malaysia and yeah this is just an example of, uh censorship in singapore uh


so, I strongly believe that if singaporeans do not are not given the, the how to say if they are not given uh like the freedom of, indulging into art themselves ah they would most definitely would not be able to appreciate art because if one isn't given the right to freely exhibit art or create art that is produced by his or or or her own free will


uh I don't think he or she will be able to, able to appreciate art in all its, uh in art it noted sorry he or she won't be able to uh appreciate art as a whole and this is mainly because of uh


censorship by the government as well as the stringent rules and regulations implemented by them, yeah this is my point uh yeah ryan


no I didn't say she got arrested I'm not sure if she got arrested or not but I'm just telling you lah the consequences of, doing and creating uncensured art or unauthorised art in singapore


yeah that's true I agree with that


uh sorry let me let me let me just say something ah I that doesn't change the fact that the government still uh implements such uh rules and regulations uh so, in that in that sense it didn't really uh improve anything other than the sentence for that particular, TV twelve yeah oh the time is up already on the phone is it


the arts are luxury, and not a necessity discuss this view, with reference to your society, okay so I will start first so, the question the the question at the hand I mean the statement at hand says that the arts are luxury and not a necessity and I'm supposed to discuss this view with reference to my society which is singapore


so before we delve into the points first as per for the other two questions which is what what we have been doing previously let me just uh uh break down the key, words in the statement lah which is one is that claims that the arts are luxury which is an absolute, statement so let me break down the word luxury and so luxury in my opinion means that


in the art the arts in this, this case, is only being regarded as by its superficial value superficial material value as well as uh only consumed then appreciated by the rich since


hence explaining why it's been called a luxury because, the luxury will usually be associated with having, wealth and et cetera and that it also means that the art is not needed because a luxury, because when you say something is luxurious it doesn't it means that one would only consume it if


one has the sufficient amount of, extra how to say extra uh, monetary uh monetary, incentives to do so, and also we need to discuss about it in terms of singapore ah which is uh quite a consumerist society I would say


and the statement then states that all the arts is not a necessity, so when we talk about necessity I would ya I will definitely classify it as being part and parcel of the lives of every singaporean uh and that it is an indispensable venue for expressing


basically expressing uh what whatever the whatever thoughts that we that we may have about it be emotions or uh, for uh ya emotions or like motives or whatever uh whatever thoughts that some people may have and so my first one will be that


the arts are luxury and not a necessity and that is because, it is impractical to spend money on arts when basic necessities such as food water and shelter, cannot be afforded by those of lower financial standing and as you may or may not know uh in singapore the class divide or social hierarchy is quite uh great ah compared to other countries uh so basically what I mean is that there is a large income gap between the rich and the


poor so, take this and to back this up according to a research conducted by the NUS faculty of arts and social sciences, twenty six percent of households in singapore are living in relative poverty, uh relative poverty is actually a condition where people like the minimum amount of income needed in order to afford an average standard of living


uh in this case uh in singapore where the society where you live in and this is mainly because, uh arts are seen as form of, entertainment as well as a form of uh, extravagant uh is is seen as an extravagant good and hence it is not a necessity to these these singaporeans uh especially those in who are part of the lower class divide


and as a result if these household households who are living in relative poverty find it impractical to spend money on art, as this this would mean that they will have to sacrifice the money that could have been saved saved in order to spend it on rainy days or other


uh more dire situations that would warrant, the more important usage of, money lah which is quite scarce for these people, and as a result this is why I believe art is considered more of a luxury than a necessity uh ryan your you have the floor


okay you you mentioned that art it it like since you said that since you put uh came up ya since you told me that all these examples and stated that oh art oh singapore is rank all these uh very low among all the, happiness levels as well as we are the most overwork city I feel like that has very little to do with how art is treated as a luxury because earlier on in the previous two questions I did mention that art


is tied closely to one's sentimental uh emotions and sense as and such uh feeling is closely related to one's feelings ah so when you talk about consumerist society like singapore right where people find happiness


uh through the means of being able to afford all these expensive uh goods and services, instead of, achieving happiness in this way maybe one maybe ya maybe one could instead, create art and like sort of released their unhappiness or let's say any feelings of negativity in the form of art


so, in this aspect I would have to disagree with you and as because, his art can serve as a venue for someone to, release, his or her unhappiness ya and uh for my next point on why arts


can uh sorry , why arts are associated with wealth in singapore is because, err sorry uh


arts uh is seen as a luxury because it is associated with wealth in, singapore ya uh that that was my point yeah sorry about it uh so for what for example it's not hard to associate places like gardens by the, bay botanic gardens or even esplanade as being sort of like the wealthy areas of singapore because uh in places like gardens by the bay and esplanade


are usually centered in the central bay district of singapore which is known to have quite, expensive uh I uh basically, it's just expensive uh over there if you want to go there for uh leisure purposes ya and not often or not that not that will be higher entrance fees ah


and one would have to pay quite an amount to so called enjoy the artistic atmosphere that it's probably being uh showcases there, and also the target audience are mainly aimed at tourists in order to generate singapore's uh revenue for tourism and indeed yeah that's why I would say that it's not


it's not really shocking that why singaporeans would thus associate art with wealth ah, yeah, uh that's all for my point ryan


no but here with this case we talking about singapore and not like in general


okay uh so to summarise what you have mentioned ah uh you mentioned that, you mentioned the various forms of how art can impact one and then, you mentioned that uh something about the pyramid where, uh the needs of singaporeans are mostly fulfilled now because of art uh


ya but I do agree with that right uh, !huh! I'll have to say that arts the arts, uh are indeed a luxury and are not a necessity because, uh in in singapore particularly the arts are usually like


how should I put it, the arts are always prioritised as second, uh before more, pressing matters uh such as as I would say our our academics or, uh yeah so one example will be that in many schools uh in singapore


right uh, that like arts activities such as for for instance joining a choir or being in a band, these activities are only being used by students as co-curricular activities whereas, for


academic for more academic related uh stuff such as, like math and science uh is, the the government prioritises them as being more important and and also strongly uh, , strongly uh recommends to all students that they should prioritise uh their academics over everything else


and as a result I feel like this is quite an uh, this makes arts seemed as a a second like uh it's it's not a necessity more off but, because of what, students have perceived art to be they will see it more as like a hobby ya like if it's not something that is compulsory to for them to to do it's more like if they have the extra time or money or effort


yeah that's that is true that is true yeah, and also also in singapore right the government like even though it places fundings on like such special schools like SOTA or Nanyang fine academy of arts like if you look at the numbers how many of such institutions are there compared to like a proper


academic institution like JC or or polytechnic, that places more emphasis on, like the academic city of like the arts in someone that is quite like there's quite a large difference in a ratio and your


should we always be compassionate


okay start off okay okay can, so eh uh hi hi Saran so I think that uh I will first start by defining what's exactly is uh being compassionate and what's exactly we want to establish as uh compassion in this conversation Nah


so uh when I search it and everything uh what I find with compassion on hold is there it is being sympathetic and taking pity and concern for the suffering or misfortune of someone else so the thing is the very important distinguishing factor about everything is that it is associated with the tangible steps


which you want to take to motivate but also it is about the action needed to improve someone's life, so I will go through why we should be compassionate all the time lah so first reason it it'll it'll be then we as humans are designed to be compassionate we are compassionate beings so look at it in two ways one would be biological and then the second would be in terms of our culture and our society and where we are


so biology there are a lot of things to indicate compassion we see it in children very young, from the emotion uh they display through a lot of subtle, ways things like uh face uh, face movements uh body language things like that we also have a very interesting thing in our mind


called mirror neuron so mirror neuron is that when you see something happening to somebody else you are able to feel uh to a certain extent what they're going through some may say this is your consciousness things like that mirror neuron is quite important because when we are exposed to suffering uh with regards to someone else


we ourselves feel a bit of that inside of us, and so so things biologically we are programmed to to feel for someone else and then naturally it would only be the correct thing if you are biologically built like this for you to follow and act upon it and always exercise your compassion when possible lah uh we also see this happening


correct correct correct yup, yeah it's it's it's a biological thing lah it's in your mind it's it's displayed and everything of course subsequently uh the decision making


and so uh so I think the second thing is that we see how it uh transitions into the way our society is run oh we see everywhere uh kids when they're raised up you always try and teaching good values good morals and a big part of that is being compassionate


so you look at major religions dogmatic ways of thinking and things like that even philosophy and philosophical schools guys like uh so critics uh, guys like marcus aurelius and everything you see a bit of but big founding pillar of of their ideology in everything comes with being compassionate and


having that empathetic view about someone else but they don't just stop there what what we are constantly thought is that we need to take it one step further we need to help others and uh and I would just quickly like to brief upon well what are the benefits into being compassion all the time


well it affects you in two ways the first way would would be it benefits whoever you're trying to help you improve their lot in life you motivate them, and you aspire them to become something better and that in itself will reward you as well, you you are able to feel better about yourself you can more dopamine you and you begin to feel good about life as well so the thing is is it it benefits both people and enticing with this entire concept


of ah asked being biologically programmed to be compassionate and caring people ya I pass the time to you Saran


right so I think the points you brought up were all very good lah I think it's quite interesting uh I think what you touched upon was things being biological and things being upbringing so I completely agree with you and uh I do see, but I believe that is a bit more is uh in tandem with both it not a singularity but it is a multi factorial lah being being compassionate and things like that


uh that's why I do feel like a lot of it is, for example your religion the the kind of philosophy in the kind of uh morals with your parents and and and the people you grow up with instil in you lah I would like to touch point to point I think that you said something like uh for example you may be more difficult for you if you live in a third world country for you to exercise a lot of compassion and things like that


but uh I think one very good example would be paul bagina# uh during the rwandan genocide and he he was from the majority group but uh he still putting a lot of effort to to house a lot of minority we see it throughout history


a lot of people who maybe won't in fantastic situations themself, go against and uh against uh a standard societal norm to do what they believe is compassionate and correct lah, uh the next important thing is that you talk about people being taken advantage and things like that but and then you bring up the example of the of the lady who ends up becoming smoker right and everything but then if we look at it this way right maybe it is that


is that she may have tricked us one time and everything but then you yourself have observed times whereby she's taking advantage of you, so so thing is the issue right now is is not about not being compassionate cause is she's not in in that dire situation anymore and things like that it it may not have been credited


towards your financial helping of her and everything what what what I'm trying to conclude at is is just, that uh that uh these kind of examples right there are there are extremely specific and uh and uh


I feel like they do not paint a very good holistic image of uh what, of situations when we need to exercise compassion and not, so for example with the kid going to school and things like that right the teacher is compassionate and everything but the thing is is not wrong for her to have being compassionate it's just that the the methodology or the action taken was wrong but then there is


that doesn't take away from the fact that we must still be compassionate all the time if you follow what I'm trying to say lah ya ah ya I think I'll passed back to you really quick


ya ya I I get what you mean I think, that that's why is very important to go back to the entire definition right it is we feel sympathetic and pity and concern for someone suffering in misfortune but I think a lot of, examples you bring up right uh uh the kind of examples whereby we don't see the total picture of what is going on and so we cannot verify or or actually claim that they are suffering or not that kind of thing ya whereas I do feel


correct correct ya lor ya ya, yes correct correct but then you see it that won't really help us with should we always be compassionate because if we follow the definition correctly we are always compassionate whenever we see someone who is genuinely struggling and genuinely need help and everything


the problem I think is is that we have mistaken or, we have misinterpreted it and then we've looking and we've taken this conversation to be addressing anyone who asked you for help, uh and then you render that help


but I don't think that that is necessarily barely healthy thing to do, a bit like what you were saying as well maybe we don't have the means to even take care of them even though we feel this way and and everything but I think that's why is one very important for you to know uh who you're helping and why you feel compassionate about that specific person


and everything is is a very distinguished thing between you helping someone who genuinely needs it and you helping uh someone whom you don't really know the full picture and everything ya


correct correct ya, agreed agreed but then don't you think that if we were in this scenario whereby we use our critical thinking and can verify and acknowledged that somebody does


need help somebody is uh in a position whereby they are suffering and everything then at that point in time we should always exercise compassion because there's a lot more dimensions to it is not just money, you can also give uh support in many many different ways I don't think that


(mmhmm) ya right


I okay so I get what you are trying to say but then I beg to differ simply because we look at volunteering and things like that right, okay you think about it on a very superficial level right it's it's a waste of resources you waste your time and you waste your financial resources as well and you talk about opportunity cost and everything


but the thing is a lot of the times right people who do volunteer and things like that they feel that it benefits them a lot more your it becomes almost like an investment but so so you spending your time and everything but then your emotional wellbeing becomes better which is why I started the entire conversation with


being compassion is a intrigue part of us being human is, but then I disagree with there's always something you can do it's it's it's just how you want to help


should perseverance always be encouraged


oh okay so uh well I think your points are really good lah and I think that it is extremely important as well in your workplace and everything to have perseverance so that you can continue to strive and stay relevant I guess ultimately is what we're aiming for, but I think that uh there are certain situations whereby perseverance shouldn't be encouraged so some these uh situation could be


when for example you are in a environment whereby you are facing sustained pressure or violence abuse or or a natural disaster, so uh I'll bring out a few case studies maybe a bit sensitive but uh it'll be completely related to the point and just to justify uh why maybe this situation perseverance wasn't too great


uh so so one of the examples should be this guy called oskar uh schindler they made a movie out of it uh the schindler's list so this guy he he takes over a ccompany uh there is building arms for the nazi german empire


halfway through he realizes that instead of persevering the business element and everything , he he he changed his focus and everything he changed because he believed that that it was no longer correct for him to continually


uh strive and support, a political regime which he no longer believed in and he ended up housing a lot of the jews and employing them and everything I guess the point which this is really trying to drive home is that I guess that there are not every single society whereby things are peaceful and there's a lot of grey areas when it comes to uh


the way you live your life the political system and everything and then if you are in a situation whereby there is sustained pressure, or of you committing violent acts and things like that that kind of situation encouraging someone to persevere and remained in in the dogmatic norm is is not ideal that kind of situation right


that someone needs to take ownership and then evaluate what they're doing is correct or not and then if necessary pivot and then not persevere on in terms of the wrong way and then uh


not conforming I guess ultimately another way would be if you are presented with facts and details, which blatantly prove that your way of thought process is wrong and I think that at a certain point you cannot persevere and hold on to your belief even when faced with the enormity of the facts that proof against it


so one example of how this was maybe not so well handled just to try and add a bit of uh context uh for example at one point in time uh a lot of people thought the world was flat, and uh galileo galilei came up with the idea that it was round


so when he came up with this idea he created all of facts and everything and these people uh they couldn't accept it and they ended up prosecuting him and then, uh in the end he was uh murdered, for coming up with such a claim like this, so the thing is it is wrong when you should not continue to persevere in your ideas if it is very clear that you are wrong in it and when there is a lot of concrete fact so should perseverance always be encouraged I don't think so I think that you need to use your reasoning you're thinking and


that is life ultimately do we know anything or are we just following of opinions, ya back to you Saran


billionaire billionaire she's the first billionaire correct , I I think is is good points lah that, definitely uh I can see exactly what you're saying and I think those kind of situation perseverance always uh will prevail and everything because now we're talking about writing a book right and then if you don't write a book so well and and everything well is your life affected


but the thing is uh much more macro ideas and things like that right for example what guys like uh, schindler was doing and everything but talking about a whole society and everything if things are not progressive right and and people are telling you to persevere !hey! you need to make money you need to do well uh these good opportunity sell sell the arms to the government is a fantastic thing for you but the thing is


at that moment in time he said no this this is, exactly so the thing is how can you argue should perseverance always be encouraged it depends on the purpose behind what we're persevering for correct ya too with galileo galilei he he he proposed


and the problem then becomes with dogmatic thought right because he came up with a decent idea with studies and everything the thing was then uh people weren't willing to accept it and I think that even in today's day and age try the truth is there are a lot of things which we simply don't know we don't know


enough about the world with barely explore the ocean and and the reality is that there are a lot of macro questions which we just don't really understand about, and so is important in those kind of situation that when we're faced with facts we do like to say that we're at that age in time whereby I can come up with any idea and if I can justify it


then it's believable and things like that but the reality is is that there are a lot of processes involved and stuff like that and uh the truth is that, in facts are brought upon but maybe these are facts which people don't like to hear then then it's important for us not to persevere in a very bad way and not for us to to persevere into holding onto beliefs that may no longer be healthy and may lead to a decay so for example


maybe things like, , he tried he tried then he got killed (uh huh) uh lah


in that sense if I'm faced with somebody else who can come up with better ideas and better concepts and uh it works I should accept it so for example maybe things like uh, uh you woke up to your boss you say eh this the best possible way then your boss looks at you eh uh but we've been doing it like this this the culture of our workplace for so many years we're not going to change it that kind of thing may not be healthy uh but the thing is


ya yes correct


I agree I agree I agree with this but then I believe that you shouldn't always encourage perseverance for example a bit like how of saying it all depends what you're persevering for and the reason behind it and and and what exactly is that end motive


so so for example I think when you gave the definition it had something do with building success right, !ee! correct correct but now, now imagine we are developing success for something that could be really very dangerous or like really very unhealthy uh for if


correct fair enough but for example world war two uh and the entire nazi regime and the holocaust and everything that kind of thing, I think that that no matter who you are right you shouldn't be persevering to allow that sort of situation to ever happen again yeah and the thing is we felt like we learn that lesson but we didn't because they happen again with the rwandan genocide


uh and it happened again with with with the cambodia and uh the #khmer rouge# and everything so, precisely so so depending on the situation and stuff you shouldn't persevere


always it it completely depends on uh the person and the motive and uh I guess another very interesting thing which we could talk about and things like that is what will happen if for example someone who's a bit younger a little bit rebellious and everything maybe following uh not so good path in life and everything


then should they continue ya should they continue persevering in in in that in that negative fashion I don't think that is too healthy as well


the key criterion of good government is how well the economy is managed is this a fair assessment


okay so I think I'll start off so I would like to start with a quote by james cavill uh so this guy he was bill clinton's election strategies in the nineteen ninety two election lah bill clinton ends up winning the election so he says when they ask about


if if bill clinton will be able to win he says it's the economy stupid and so this quote end up becoming quite famous because what they prompt some to right is that a good government is completely a reflection of how well the economy is being managed and this extremely important because


because it is one of the cornerstone about life a good economy allows for a lot of growth in the country and even though we can talk about very sensitive things things like social problems and everything we don't address a very core problem of uh the economy of the country right a lot of these problems become almost arbitrary


if I per say so uh so uh so I guess one of the ways is very important to have a good economy would be things like the generation of jobs and and unemployment rates if you are very poor unemployment rates and people are not


not working they unable to, earn an income and they unable to sustain their family and things like that that's that's when we we end up trending in a very dangerous uh uh location because a lot of people then may resort to doing a lot of things to make money and uh that can lead to social unrest civil unrest that kind of thing


so maybe to help illustrate this problem we looked at it in a negative loop lah, uh world war two uh some of the reasons credited towards the uh world war two happening is uh the economic situation germany was under so right after world war one they have enormous uh reparation fees to pay back


uh they lose a significant portion of land which generates towards your GDP and things like that nineteen twenty nine you got the great depression uh the government response by poorly managing the economy printing printing notes and everything and uh in the end


sorry uh germany germany germany correct correct, and so what ends up happening is uh they end up mass printing note and uh the money becomes super hyperinflated and it in general what we noticed is they becomes rampant dissatisfaction so then when you very strong political leaders can step forward and then propose very radical ideas


the thing is we created a state that is radicalised already because people are suffering so the COVID right a good government holds everybody together and the backbone is always a stable economy the economy is managed, well that's how we can uh we can grow and develop forward it's why it is so important for us as a country in singapore as well to have a stable and powerful economy


it is it is our backbone it put rice on the table and uh is why we invest so much in our national defence is one of the reasons why we invest so much in our national defence, because it is important to protect our people and part of that is also to safeguard


ourselves and so one of the five pillar of defence uh I believe is economy and so our our entire stance on it is that it is one of the most integral part of government and uh it is a very important factor so then if you fast forward and then you look


maybe things like the arab spring and things like that it all follow suit ya,


alright right right


so so uh I think Saran we were talking about recession and how , and how maybe the economic situation which we're going through is not too great right now but I think what I like to highlight is that consistently for very long time we were performing quite well and as a result right if you compare globally uh everyone is is struggling in a sense but then you see


we're not doing too bad and is because of good governance and good economic management in the past that allowed us to be in this situation whereby we can still protect the people so even though our economy may slow down currently


there we, we have systems in place that allow us to progress and still rebound but the truth is that cannot be said for a lot of countries due to poor governance and mismanagement of economy in the first place so examples would be things like uh country whereby you have extreme debt problems


uh countries whereby you have extremely poor management of inflation deflation rate all these kind of things factor that whereby when there is a crisis and an emergency the economy of the country is simply just not able to keep up so while we do have one of our poorer uh one of the worst unemployment rate


in our history uh nonetheless like you were saying uh our our government was good it managed to maintain the economy, and uh create new jobs and new opportunities and schemes and everything and that's just a hallmark of good government so even though the current climate may not be fantastic I don't think that we can take away from the fact that uh uh one of the core aspect of having a good government is


managing your economy very well so even in times of crisis right how do you create jobs how how do you keep people employed how how do you sustain and then how do we keep our our workforce competitive and so we have things like skillsfuture these are all examples of good governance


because crisis may happen and it may be a bit unprecedented but what it shows at least from outside is that we have good government and uh we are able to manage the situation well so even though the the current numbers may not be fantastic and everything I think that


the situation is handled very well and it is in fact a hallmark of good government know [loh]


but but I think that uh correct I agree in so against that's that's one aspect of the social life uh


which which I guess we can see and I think I'll just like to touch on transparency and accountability of course we expect our leaders to be accountable and and and it's one of the real reasons we even vote them in, but the bigger more important question is why do we even vote them in is is to sustain a certain level in standard of life correct


so so, okay, yup


okay right right so, right but but so, correct yes yes yes


yes I I think I I think I I get what you, trying to say and everything and and I understand that there's a lot of different uh there are many many components about what makes a good government and uh what exactly


oh ya ya ya correct I so so I feel like, all these points which are bringing up it just components and parts of what exactly makes a good government and and what other components and factors of it but I think at the backbone of it all right I still believe economy is the most important thing


because economy is what brings us towards having a higher standard of living in it in the country and and everything so so ultimately, I would I may I may, believe in maybe some of the social things which you stand for but I may not feel confident in your economic capacity I will not vote you in


yes, correct if if the economy is poor


okay ya right


but you see the the the accountability aspect is a given, because if you are putting anybody in a position of authority then naturally they you would hold them accountable for the decision making it's every single thing in life mah if you are in in management level you are held accountable so accountability it's it's it's kind of like the rubric to what you're marking them on


but but essentially the performance or the exam which they are sitting for is basically, uh there are a lot of different aspects but I think to me at least one of the most important criteria is your economy if your economy is mismanaged we have a lot of repercussive


correction that need to be done and with a stable economy, , you see with a stable economy we can grow we can venture


I I think that is subjective right because because if if our economy is growing so fast and things like that sure that can be a lot of problems afterwards but uh I I believe that if you are


economy is doing very well and everything we can then venture into all things money can be then reinvested into public things uh for example uh, improving healthcare systems healthcare schemes you know all these sort of things having CPF so so you can retire comfortably and all these kind of thing is is created simply to protect the people so a good economy right or at least a good government takes care of all these aspects and at the end of the day uh it comes down


to to, to how well the economy is being managed and how well we adapt to different situations and how do we keep the country fresh and keep the country alive and uh keep moving forward and attract talent and uh develop talent in our country as well


but but but back that's just another example of uh how how the government manages the economy right


oh okay okay okay okay kay kay uh uh okay okay okay uh uh uh pro-comm for me okay okay understood understood cool


okay thanks Saran there's gonna three, two one, should we always be compassionate


with regards to someone else, we all felt feel a bit of that you kind of off, info something biologically we are programmed to fulfill for someone else and then naturally it will only be the correct thing you got biologically built like this for you to follow and act upon it and always by your compassion when possible lah


alright so regarding you actually mentioned that uh what this is something that's biologically in us being compassionate but more than that what our think right is that maybe, even though is biologically in us our upbringing and the the stuff that happened to us along the way in life the environment the circumstances is what actually instills that this compassion in us more than it being biologically


in us, that is not what actually allows us be compassionate you know more of it is actually supposed to be in the circumstances in life that actually you know that you come across that's what actually bring brings up their compassion you knew, biologically maybe because what what if a baby actually a kid is in a third world country and you know like circumstances as such that he's always being in uh an environment where he's not shown compassion and all you think that he will be he will have the compassion in him


not really so what actually I want I want to say about this is my view is, look okay so this question is about should we always be compassionate I'm saying that not really in a sense right where let's say we are compassionate about something right people tend to take advantage of it alright let's say for example lah uh


a school boy you know, you always see that he's not good at maths okay so what you you and he always doesn't do his homework and come to class alright and because of that he's always being scolded by the teacher something like that alright and you feel compassion for the boy because you feel that his and maybe at his home his mom can't his mom can't helping with his work


and then you start doing the work for him, helping him is different but you start doing it for him just because he can't do it okay you start you start doing the work for him in that case you are actually robbing away the opportunity from him to actually learn, so you are not even though you are being compassionate instead of helping him you're not doing a a good deed there you know you're stealing away the opportunity from him


to, start uh to learn and you try to nurture into someone successful in future, so ya this this uh this point about taking advantage is actually very important because in the sense where there are also a lot of cases in singapore right now where you know , people like uh for example actually near in my neighborhood there was a case of this lady when she was uh when I was like I think ten years old she came around asking us for like note one dollar two dollar everytime she keep asking us no she kind of ask us for some donation in terms of monetary needs


so at that point of time we always felt my my mom would feel compassionate and and she will just give her like you know uh ya okay fine one dollar two dollar and, ten years down the road I'm looking at her she's actually quite well to do surprisingly she is smoking so I'm quite surprised in the sense where


how can somebody be at that state come to this state right now, you know, ya so that is what something I feel like, the point of taking advantage is something we should not always be compassionate there's always a circumstance a situation where, you feel compassionate and you don't feel compassionate you have to weigh your options at that point of time


ya so passing over to you


so I think what we are actually coming about doing we're we're actually talking about today is about critical thinking, and that situation whether somebody need you need to show compassion and need you know you need to feel compassionate towards someone you need to you need to have that thing called critical thinking because in the case of that the person that was you know uh became uh like asking for one dollar two dollar and then she became a smoker it was more of


at that point where uh ten years ago that one dollar two dollar is the the opportunity cost that I lost at that time you know, because you see at that point of time ya it maybe one dollar two dollar just may small but at that point of time might me giving out of this sum of money, I'm actually losing out because what maybe all of this accumulated I can get like maybe a few good a a good of something like over the years I compound it and I I can be someone today you know you really never know what all the small acts of compassion is what when you don't really know where whether they really need it


whether is you know essential for them at that point of time and then when you just let it just uh go with the flow of being compassionate and then you just sometime you also people they tend to follow suit just because someone else is giving a donation, this are we also want to feel that giving a donation but that's not how you supposed to be you know that what this fact is the critical thinking where I want to I want to talk about because


uh recently I watch this movie the train to Busan peninsula not so sure if you do know it actually ya so in that movie you actually seen the last ever stage right there will be two kids they are running towards the helicopter and then there will be the guy there and the mom will be stuck with the zombies so at that point of time


the that that that that that guy the hero felt compassionate towards the the the the mom and she wanted to save him, but at that point of time, is a movie yeah so it ended off well where you know everybody got saved but my question to you is what if at that point of time those zombies manage to get to him even though they were really safer uh they get to him and they get to the children


because of his one act of compassion you know, everything goes with all the efforts taken were wasted you know so it's just that one one little act of compassion you feel that is uh essential then all the efforts are wasted and not only that is also it affects some peoples when they too compassionate at times right it affect your mental wellbeing


you know when you are at a state when you can't really help someone, you can't really help someone you feel compassion for them but you can't help them in terms because they need like monetary needs but you're not you're not able to help them that way and then it actually affects you for the next whole day you know you you think about it like you know oh wait I saw the person there and then he has like suffering for just one plate of food but I can't help him then it affects you for the next


two three days so when you're too compassionate it actually affects your mental well being as well, so to summarize what I want to say is actually should we always be compassionate is my own opinion is actually a definite no because you always seem to have this, the critical thinking in a situation whether is it necessary to be compassionate


and also that your mental well-being, you need to be a person with a strong will to be compassionate you know you need to be strong, emotionally imagine just any, uh tom dick and harry you know just something happens to this one person and then you feel so compassionate affects your day and then it affects you psychologically and affects your day if not for the next few days and it really can affect you


uh, in in total yup


first the hope


and the faith you have just saying that oh you're giving them the benefit of doubt at that moment ya, uh


actually the thing about this is most importantly will be the the the matter I bringing was, critical thinking at that situation do you need to be compassionate because that is where we we we actually can know follow so the definition where the somebody is genuinely in need yeah because at


ya you know like maybe what you're saying maybe you are saying maybe not monetary needs but because the bulk of being compassionate is maybe helping someone in any way possible right, so but when you're helping someone you in any way possible most probably a major a major factor of it that will take away of yours is time am I right so because you need to maybe like maybe for someone okay other than monetary needs


maybe someone you know like uh there's uh some uh disaster going on in you actually feel compassion you want to go and help them out, so you go down you spend your time and you you know you go down and help people out right, but this time, okay you can actually be doing so many things for your own future for your own planning


so that great I mean wait I bringing the fact about opportunity cost where you can feel you feel you can feel compassionate but there has to be a limit to it shouldn't always be compassionate because if you always going to be feeling compassionate I'm telling you that, you know you are what's going to happen to you what's going happen to your life and your time and your money


but what if someone feels compassionate but he can't do anything about it because he has something else you know, at that point at that moment


times up Saran good Saran good in three two, one, you should perseverance always be encouraged, uh Saran if you are ready ya you can just go ahead lah, ah okay yes


so uh, ya so Garnesh let's just start with , what is the definition of perseverance, okay so we said I'll just uh read out to you it's actually persistence in doing something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success


alright, yeah so uh okay so why is perseverance actually important and it should always be encouraged is because, okay uh what does this famous quote by franklin D roosevelt when it come to the end of the rope, tie a knot and hang on, so is what I'm trying to say is perseverance you actually a very important character trait for you to be successful in life in life today we are actually being constantly faced by different kind of challenges in different dimensions alright so we always have the perseverance okay we always have to persevere to do well and you know to actually


overcome all these challenges that where you are constantly facing because right now you see we are in the twentieth twenty first century already, alright, so like ten years ago twenty years ago there was no such thing called uh iPhone alright but today that is so let's let's say for our older generation ha


they have to be able to adapt to the new uh system where you know they're able to use a iPad they need to be good at I tech I mean IT stuff they need to be tech savvy in order to keep up to their job, if, along the way of learning these right like this uh to be IT savvy they just give up


I think they will be left out you know we're all you even you even lose a job for some people so they always have be constantly changing and adapting and they have to persevere along this is a very difficult process for someone to change and learn stuff along the way but they have to do it in order to keep their jobs so perseverance always encouraged and


uh no needed in life you will always have things that will not go our way, you know, like let's say even for thomas uh alva edison, right, he failed ten thousand times before he invented the light bulb if he had give give up that day I think we won't even be looking at each other today you know am I right yeah so and even uh when he said he failed ten thousand times he didn't say he failed all he said was I found ten thousand new different ways that I shouldn't be doing this


so I feel persevere should always be encouraged in whatever you do, no that should never be a reason why because even if you persevere and you don't get it till the end, it becomes a lesson learnt, or a stepping stone for you to move on and you learn that that is not what you supposed to do or maybe that's not the way you supposed to do it there's always a different way to go what you doing it and this perseverance you actually become a trait of yourself


in, because uh perseverance you know be physical or psychological is actually very important, the minute you don't have perseverance, of you the chance of you becoming successful or achieving what we want actually is diminished you know, you won't really you won't be able to really have that value or that trait in you to keep pushing yourself despite the odds and challenges you faced with so why should always have perseverance in no matter what whatever age you are whatever circumstance you are whatever wherever you're thrown you persevere you'll always be able to


uh learn adapt and, constant uh what and move on, yup, so what uh how about you


but okay Ganesh what uh I I actually I I caught that, point when you talk about galileo that he was actually saying that uh what does this uh black what uh earth was actually black right, yeah so but in that in that sense right coming from their point of view he he's perseverance he was working towards what he thought was uh the bowl of being black correct but he didn't actually went and and enforce it on people that eh the world is black he didn't do that


he was having his own study and you'll just there ya maybe you are talking about it but other people murdering him was actually not something, something to do with perseverance you know yeah it actually killed him but maybe at that point at that situation we should actually look at it in the people around him


you know, they should have been actually if they were more in today's world I don't think that will actually happen, am I right in today's world we looked at it even if someone has the persevere about something like or


someone is gonna persevere into a research study the world is flat today no one is going to kill him what, am I right, is just in that point of time, people weren't so well educated and and so they just did what they wanted to do there wasn't law and enforcement, systems in there so they just did what they wanted to do but in today's world people can do what they wanna do you want to do something you want research your something you feel the world is flat go ahead prove it to me


and then you know uh we can take it to the next time we can inform the world about it so I I feel like perseverance should always be encouraged because if you feel something is right and something you want to achieve something, keep going on and go in that direction you will always achieve it yup so I'll take some uh uh uh maybe I'll call the example that something it can close to our hearts is actually our #lee kuan yew#


alright fifty years ago singapore was I think no no not no one even in the world actually recognised singapore as a country you know but through his perseverance he face so many issues along the way you know the merger with malaysia and all that you know it's is it's also challenges that he also to overcome


you know but despite all this, he brought singapore from a small wishing a fishing village to where we are today you know well one of the top ten world in the whole country where in the whole world people actually recognize us and they look up to us, you know if it's if if the if uh the if mister #lee kuan yew# actually didn't persevere at that point of time and he didn't uh he also so determined to bring up our country we won't be where we are today


so we have to salute him for that he did persevere and we have to give him the new , the the the we have to be we have to not congratulate we should be happy that he did not give up and he persevered to bring us to where we are today and not only that you know people like #muhammad ali# he whenever he was training he also said it I mean you should know #muhammad ali# the legend legendary boxing champion he said


he hated every minute of training but he said to himself no quit suffer now and live the life live the rest of your life as a champion, there's a famous quote by is true what everyone knows who is he now and he's legend is leaving a legacy behind everybody knows him and also uh JK rowling ya JK rowling before she got her book uh published in the movies produced she went to twelve different authors as she she got rejected by every single one of them


before she actually got her book publish and she is also a millionaire right now so if you have a goal in mind and you, feel, that you are actually certain about then you are passionate about it you should never ever stopped because of anyone, you know, you even though ya okay ya oh she's the first billionaire okay ya so to be ya so in in in in in the sense


(mmhmm), uh like what I want you to say is, you said that you know galileo you know his his idea of that whole black world thing right maybe in that sense where if he felt so he should continue persevering in his research but he shouldn't have been pushing it out eh ya maybe ya maybe ya that side that he shouldn't have pushed it out to people you know


his perseverance is his like his own motivation and perseverance it can helps motivation you know and then it also helps you let him do his own work lets him persevere and let him see whether at the end of it at the end of the tunnel whether he sees the light or not, is, up to him and you know is his own issue


ya that that that that one I agree because you know that's actually a conflict of interest already, where you know put ya because that's where that's, ya at there are rules and regulations for you need to follow when in your that kind of environment but another thing that I actually wanted to bring up just now was perseverance should always be encouraged because it actually heightens your uh motivational factor in you and also builds yourself confidence as a person


because it any circumstance if eh no your boss everytime will tells you like know oh just let it go give it up you know and you keep meeting around people around you the same or just let it go let it go let it go and then you don't even, persevere you don't even feel there's a need and you don't even have that willpower you need to persevere right then in future in if you put in any different uh you know situation where you feel that it's difficult and you know is challenging you are going to give up and you're just going to


come to whatever there is going to happen there you know ya so you need to have that you need to persevere always because it helps you build your self-confidence also so, especially self-confidence


ya despite difficulty you continued achieve success, but that's debatable you see, let's say what is what is dangerous to you may not be danger to someone what is negative you may not be negative to somebody


what this is where this is where you bring us back to the point where you know situation and purpose of it, you know ya


ya but the thing is even though right they persevere in the negative let's say ah let's say they persevere they uh they persevered just to you know they wanted to uh be somebody in uh in in let's say maybe a secret society they persevere to you know become somebody in the secret society even though is negative


perseverance help them to get where they want to be and it they managed to learn this right they can use this perseverance into another aspect of their life which is gonna be leading them to positive, success you know, it may be negative example, but but they can use it and learned it that you know I had I manage to get up here this fast I can use it somewhere else and do better in my life you know


Saran ready Ganesh ready so get ready you clap three, two one, the key criterion for good government is how well the economy is manage is this a fair assessment


Ganesh you actually saying about the fact where about uh unemployment and jobs right, alright yeah but what about singapore right now we all know that singapore right now is facing a technical recession we are facing a very in a recession right now, okay, so our economy is not doing well for fact


but does that mean that our government is not good we have also come up with uh what uh our ministry have also come up with skills state main of the skills job they have also uh said that in uh recent times that they've created about I think a hundred thousand jobs, so jobs


have been created, alright but our government, is, in our government has also help us create jobs but that does not relate to economy being managed well, is it the economy is not doing well right now because we lost investor we lost investor uh confidence in more more or less now because


uh right now is COVID period is a disaster so everybody just pulling out and just uh sit sitting in cash right now so, the thing is right now our economy is not doing well I'll is also you know you're struggling but that does not mean our our government is not doing well even in this period right now you also got I think two if I'm not wrong forgotten leh two rounds of uh rebate


uh yeah the SG money I think I know three hundred three hundred yup so at this point of time our government is also taking out money from the reserves to help us, they are they are also given all those SME uh alright about I think about ten thousand dollars and only that they also given a lot of


uh supported a lot of uh CapitaLand mall and all these uh Maple Tree Industrial and all that they have all supported this all the key factors of our economy you see so that does not mean that our economy is not our economy right now is not that is not doing really great but our government is good


ya, so and not only that you may also look in the point where uh you have to see in the sense of material standard of living and non material standard of living you said that jobs opportunities ya okay and china what happened was, they open up their economy to the whole world a lot of uh country started you know a lot of companies started uh going in in china and what happened was


there's uh the statistics shown in one one particular village of china only one percent of the people there were breathing proper breathable air you know clean air it's because of all those , extractions and orders leakage from all those uh factories right it's actually harmful for uh the people living there so even though the economy is doing well


is the government really helping the people there is the material standard of living there really good is it that's a question we should ponder about


actually what you are saying uh Ganesh I totally agree with it in the fact that even though uh we are currently not doing well our government is good in the sense that actually bringing up jobs and all that, yup, but I'm just saying that I feel that how well the economy is manage is not


a criteria not really a key criteria for good government more of it will be accountability and transparency in the government, because you look at it in the sense where the reason why what, , there's a lot of uh, uh maybe a lot of unrest in malaysia


you know when see what happen to the prime the minister I think uh mister Najib is it, ya you see there was uh I mean there's some allegations made against him and that is actually not not a good day in the sense where you know you actually uh affects the reputability of the government you know that in fact like will affect investors' confidence in your country


and in that sense what happens to economy so the thing is the key criteria for good government is supposed to be transparency and accountability in the sense that something happened something goes wrong who is going to stand up and and take, and they're and they accountable for it


you know, and not only that uh I mean we we all know about the the issue about george floyd's uh the black lives matter you see you know US economy is doing well they are doing very well but is that is it is it what is is that how is shown in the country right now you know there's so many issues black lives matter


yeah


ya but the thing is the policy that they come up with like our government leaders uh doesn't necessarily need to, uh what we managing the economy you see some policies will be actually more for nearer to home where you know to help us singaporeans in terms of monetary need doesn't always have to be something that is going to be about managing the economy that's just on one side of it and that's important


but that's not a key criteria for good government you know some people can be very good at uh managing the economy but if that does not that does not like you see like jobs and uh opportunities that are created for people in uh in singapore right but then you see there's also a total lots of inflow of foreigners am I right


so if all the jobs and opportunities are taken up by, foreigners and then ya the economy is doing well jobs are created but who is the job would you do is it us no you say you have to look at it in that point of view where you know that that's why like so so so many people talking about the inflow of foreigners in singapore is it necessary


ya, ya and not only that the government also can also choose to uh what, choose to uh, prioritise different uh objectives, like you know healthcare right now will be healthcare will be a major factor for uh singapore government right now you know so they will not be putting too much of important and uh focus on the economy right now so they're moving towards healthcare and also uh like what uh


you wanted to say something about transparency in uh accountability right that you wanted to say I thought you wanted to say something about it


maybe something that I would agree with you


is uh you know you said that what, the economy I mean it's the backbone to increase the standard of living right ya maybe uh what one side I I'll agree with you is yes uh it actually increases the standard of living but also uh recently our uh workers' party mister james Lim


he also he's also very interested in bringing about a minimum wage, minimum wage for singaporeans policy that policy ya so in that sense if you were to come uh and uh you know and say that maybe that a good government is our reason in good uh what uh well managed economy I would agree with you in that sense and not only that I mean uh even though


I feel uh accountability and transparency essentially the most important not more or less important for a good government I also feel that what


ya but maybe maybe maybe my question to his like what say about our government is so good that we are actually uh very good at making the economy uh thrive and you know double, GDP triple our GDP


but, if that does not reflect in the lives of singaporeans know what's the purpose of it


actually some I think I example that uh what uh might be apt for what you just mentioned will be new zealand ya


uh the new prime I mean the new prime minister actually a female I'm not so sure what's her name I think ardern I'm not so sure ya jacintha ardern I think yeah so what happened was she when she came into into the into politics she changed, the five day work week into a four day work week because the major factor there was uh what uh boosting the uh new zealand economy GDP was tourism


so what they did was they made it into a four day work week so that all people locals also have an extra day to go and uh no go around the city and also in fact they are actually uh injecting more money into their own GDP, you see there are actually it's like it's like a circular flow of income


when it becomes a four day work week ya so that's actually an uh excellent example of what you actually trying to say I understand what you trying, to say uh maybe that's actually a good example, another example of good government, ya ya I I for you


ya ya ya I I agree I agree with you on that on that aspect of it ya


part one debate topic one


okay uh


I I disagree that advertising are advertisements are entertaining but it really affect consumer choice because personally for myself I feel I feel that in this age and time the way advertisements are being done is really different from when we are young


like when I remember when I was young advertisements are usually uh mostly from TV radio and print ads, but as now social media is really very popular and it's getting more and more it's like part and parcel of our life


so a lot of people are relying on like they're very they're on social media almost you know twenty seven twenty four seven of their time and most of their time so I noticed that a lot of advertisements are being done out of the norm


that's why I feel that despite like now advertisements are really uh entertaining and they does affect consumer choice because people are more


aware of a lot of friends and if the advertise if the advertisement is really very engaging and entertaining uh people might get influence like personally for myself , during especially during the past two three months uh I've been because of circuit breaker we have been at home most of the time and we are always on our mobile and I do see a lot of advertisements done


via social media, and to be honest when I look at all those advertisements , like I do have hobby I do agree that you know that there is uh people might have their preferred choice of brand but because of this exposure of uh uh


advertise advertisements through social media platform it does affect uh people's uh choices because they get to see what are available in the market, ya and I do see advertisements done in a very different way other than print ads and TV and all these like people do it in uh


form of uh video, like uh they do uh, skit or anything that involved the products and this does , make people more enticed to you know just have these uh, I don't mind trying you know buying that to try ya so that's why I disagree that advertisements are entertaining but they really uh affect consumer choice


that's my point


well,


okay understand your point uh these two points which is familiarity and the amount spend on advertisements uh however I do uh, I do agree to a certain extent but, I disagree in terms of this familiarity because I agree in terms of like uh because


human behaviour, we usually tend to uh tilt towards brands that we are familiar, but, because in this age and time a lot of products I believe uh if you see on social media it comes from like different country especially now that in the market there's a lot of uh product new products coming out every single day and even for certain product there is different


multiple brands out there so, I feel that this familiarity yes is it do still stays for certain people but I think majority of people because of this uh, this age and time there's a lot of different products and brands out there they actually are more open to exploring new choices and understanding giving chance to new products in the market because of I think the way people do like advertisements nowadays I do agree in terms of the amount spent on


advertisements as well but, like I mention in my previous uh debate like a lot of advertisements back then uh requires a huge amount of money because in terms of the because in terms of advertisements is quite uh, standard in the market in a way like there is uh print ads you know TV and all these but in this age and time a lot of uh advertisements are besides uh print ads and TV ads and all these is actually shift online in on social media


and because of the, of the , widely use of social media a lot of people are relying on social media and we do our research diligently besides knowing our familiar brand some sometimes people do try out new brands based on different points like for example price


and uh reviews as well I think these are, when on top of the advertisements with all these different other , things that we do uh we people, uh advertisements does uh affect consumer trust in a way because that's probably maybe the first


point that they will see through like know this product through advertisements and then from there, when you keep seeing a certain product it will create certain impression in you and then that's when you will probably after seeing it for multiple times on social media you might give it a chance to try that product even if that's not something that you are familiar with especially maybe if the product is uh very low price point


, and I disagree in a way like uh, when we spend a lot of money on advertisement means the product is good in a way because uh it's pretty subjective uh because I do see certain products that you know it's just very simple advertisements but because of it relates to me I don't mind you know I'm maybe he that simple advertisements that


I don't think it's uh from the way they they are being shown it's not very uh expensive and you know uh maybe it just uh it's not, I will assume that maybe for huge amount of money spent on advertisement is you have endorsement from celebrities and all these but maybe uh nowadays I believe that uh besides celebrity endorsement a lot of people are


don't mind you know trying products that is endorsed by a non celebrities like uh normal people because to them they feel that to me especially for myself I feel that it is more real compared to uh you know like somebody that is uh of certain credibility ya so that's why I uh disagree that uh


at this age and time people still , uh, majority of them other than familiarity they are not really open to trying different things and, uh the amount spent on advertisements doesn't equate to uh people don't mind trying uh new products


yup so these are my points


okay for my point is uh I do agree in terms of like uh for certain products yes uh familiarity do does plays a very important role but I think ultimately is still point down to the kind of product that people are looking for


and uh, in terms of uh celebrity endorsement yes uh in terms of celebrity endorsement people are tend to have that credibility but because of the age and time a lot of uh celebrity endorsement like what you mention for number reviews that might be not be really uh true to certain extent it to me it's same as celebrity endorsement as well


uh so this is what, I in and general,


part two debate topic two


okay I agree that a picture is always more powerful than mere words uh it's because in uh for like for myself when I look at certain things I usually look at the picture before I actually read the words and as we see in a lot of uh different


uh our surroundings like if you go to certain shopping malls or you certain different places you will see that usually people use picture to capture attention, and usually that the picture are usually bigger than words the birds are the words are usually uh little as little as possible and if you scroll through Facebook usually when people uh post certain things they usually use a picture


to represent certain their emotional their emotions and certain uh things that they want to convey and then the words they use are usually uh pretty short and simple and usually if the words are, a long chunk of words uh I don't think as a as as a person you have the time to bother to read finish the entire words you probably just look for keywords and if there is a picture it will captures people attention and


it gives people that space to actually uh, think and trying to understand you emotionally as well like for example if uh you are talking about , charity or you're talking about uh certain things that is uh we lead people to their heart in terms of you will probably have a picture


of you know a group of uh happy people together you know and you know like uh, or if you want to translate certain things like family warmth you will probably see a a family of people uh gathering together eating and laughing and you know happy faces so on a side note if you want to express that you are


depressed or you are emotional you probably put a dull picture and all these so I to me I feel that a picture is always more powerful than just normal words description, uh and, picture can relate to people more so this is uh something that these are uh two points that I feel that pictures are always uh more powerful than just words itself


and that's when you see that actually people are taking pictures , are always taking pictures and posting their pictures online uh for example Instagram and all these they always say that pictures are memories you know when you look back uh these are things that will trigger your memories


as well yup so these are my points


okay uh I do agree to a certain extent in terms of like pictures and words that uh, does uh make a difference but in this if you look at how a lot of uh


I would say information online uh nowadays uh pictures usually plays a very important role uh that's why uh there's a lot of , it create a lot of uh business opportunity in terms of like photographers photographies and


people when I especially when doing businesses and even for ourselves as a normal human being like you know you're not celebrities or anything you will tend to want to take good pictures and you know and you post uh on social media because I think as much as a human being yes we look at picture uh words and everything but a lot of us are visual person


visual people so when we look at the certain picture it does trigger certain uh, uh people like, uh in general I I I feel that people generally like good uh pretty things or, good looking thing so when the picture is good like for example if you stroll through your social media or even if you see an advertisement outside or anything if you see a bowl of uh


noodle or maybe a lot of different food that has is well taken you know you ya actually automatically I'll I'll feel that you are automatically more incline to want to try it out versus if you see a a a things that only have words, you know there's no pictures or the ya then that that kind of uh emotional you wouldn't feel like trying like maybe


for example my example like when I was uh looking for food and all these usually the first thing I will look at is the presentation of the food then I'll then I'll probably by the words, because words can be uh words can be just normal words you know and people might not really read the words compared to you know when you see the picture you can have your own derive of the


what's behind pictures as well, and from there uh, you mention about senses yes uh it's it's uh important to have different senses but, at the end of the day I just I I still feel that visual still come first in a way because before your taste before you listen to certain things sometimes when you see the visual it might uh it will actually affect whether you really want to even taste the thing or if you want to give that a chance to really read through what is it about


uh ya for for human behaviour, and uh, that's why a lot of people are placing a lot of emphasis on pictures as well, ya so this is the my point


okay okay like what I mentioned earlier I do agree that uh picture with words actually uh give uh


a more uh uh people uh different uh thoughts and everything but I didn't really mention that is only pictures just that, uh among all the different uh like pictures words and all these picture does uh has more powerful impact in a way because uh first thing if you are looking at a lot of different


way of how people express themselves maybe for example a advertisements imagine you compare a advertisements that has picture, uh a very, captivating picture versus a advertisements that is full of words like for example which which advertisements will you are more likely to stop and really or take a second look at all the or advertisements that has full of words or a or advertisements that has


captivating just and I think , pictures has uh it's really more powerful in a way because are not the only only way but it's more powerful because it does uh relate to people for example if you look at a certain


picture that has uh, basketball a shoe and a tick what is the thing that will come to your mind uh, it's actually Nike is because that that that picture itself actually gives you that kind of a message compared to maybe you give a whole chunk of description about Nike maybe people might not have the time on uh


to to read through every single thing that's why pictures actually can speak that's why that's why a lot of like advertisements or even a lot of uh places pictures actually stand up more than just words itself, even though I think oh yes words does plays a a important role


but, pictures is uh I, doesn't, agreed that uh words uh are universal in a way because today if I'm a singaporean today you you type uh maybe thai word I may not understand what thai word means but if today


you are clear picture for example a very common example I think I can talk I can think of is that when you go to the a lot of uh shopping mall or public places, uh signs like for uh picture like for example uh the differentiate uh a restroom from a a gents and a ladies


uh ah beside putting uh words you know in different country I think putting a image itself over there it's actually a very universal today you go to thailand you go to the singapore you go to japan you go to uh africa a lot of places this picture actually is uh


universal among all the different uh countries compare to we put words that, people might not understand ya so that's why I feel that uh having a picture is uh, is uh more powerful than just having mere words that people may not understand and they may not spend the time to really read through and understand and digest the gist versus a picture that can captures people attention and allow people to


uh I would say picture last trigger thoughts like for example, uh a a simple picture can actually trigger hundreds or thousand of thoughts because different people have different perception towards a certain uh picture and this gives that room of creativity to allow people to understand your brands and you then from there then that's when words comes in you know like


how you redirect people based on the picture that they see to a certain things that you want to convey but at the end of the day a picture still captures people's attention and people are more appealing to looking at uh, picture compared to just words itself, ya


so these are my points


I do agree that , certain, messages and certain uh kind of, uh topic or certain things yes words does uh does plays a very important role but in general in terms of the presentation of things like uh one of a regular example that pictures is always more powerful than words is uh


a very uh uh an app, application that is really popular in the market now which is Instagram, uh or even Pinterest these are applications that uh the main thing actually is the picture compared to the words that you put uh yes that that people still put uh caption and all these but


uh we do see people that just merely holding uh putting pictures out there and it actually can form a story uh through just looking at somebody's , maybe it's the man profile and from there you can actually understand this person deeper like the way the the things that they take pictures like for example a photographer what they trying to express through pictures uh rather than just words itself because words can be very


one, one dimension means you read it you can you you it can it can sounds boring you know you can just reading but imagine uh long chunk of words together with a picture that, summarises that whole chunk of word that you are trying to say I feel it actually alleviates the entire message that you are going across uh and that's why I feel that yes words does uh plays a very important role but a picture actually compliments and uh summarise the whole message that we are going across


part three debate topic three


okay uh I do agree the certain stance in terms when you mentioned that uh yes advertisements does create awareness for products out there but in fact I feel that these advertisements out there actually helps people to