ya but if if you are the receiving party right you'll definitely remember oh this person give me this that person give me this you know


uh if you are receiving party I think you'll remember lah but uh I wouldn't want to to tag like uh I receive this bag just uh because ah I help this person do something


I couldn't care less I just oh I have this bag, bag , you know I have this watch, I only look at the, the the item that I have


part three debate topic three


I disagree that the country's experience conflicts should be left out to sort out their own problems because they don't even know what is the problem they're facing, so I think uh some


maybe some uh neighbouring countries should help them, err, especially the two big countries that we're talking about china and US they are, fighting they are very hungry for power


there are causing a lot of uh damage to the whole world, so you know recently I think yesterday or the day before uh china says that the pork from brazil is contaminated but the then previously there was another one says uh also from china salmon is also contaminated


but why, why the news are coming out from china we do not understand you know, and and, and we need some , help from some developed countries to really to go and find out what's the issue


why are they pinpointing at the all these food now, are they fighting with only one country, and uh, they they they themselves were also you know like US is is pinpointing at china saying that you are the creator of COVID


but, did did our who you know WHO really, go into it, you know ah understanding deepen to understand what's the issue because from from the beginning we already sees that


ah who did not really uh, uh did not really come out clean with with the announcement that's why, it became a huge problem now


so you know till till today why we are all working from home because I don't I don't know you know, why, all these things are not , being sorted properly why can't these people calm and sit down and talk


and and and all they do is to shoot each other on the news, on internet, so so you know it's creating a lot of problems for everybody


I don't think, china can solve their problem themself, or maybe they don't want to, they don't they they are too proud of themself they don't want people to come and help them but if you are so proud you know then this uh COVID will be you know a prolonged problem


it will never get solved, that's why the vaccine is also not out yet so I think you should just let down your ego, you know let go of your ego and then seek help, because if you don't and


and then forever the the virus will be spreading and it's getting like out of hand now, and now we have uh another issue the recent, bombing explosion, at lebanon right


so I I I don't know what is is going on but I think the neighbouring countries should also come and help them, because it it cause a lot of uh damage to, the neighbouring countries as well


I think all these it boils down to the leader of the country their ego is so big right they cannot let go, you can take for instance the the hong kong the rioting, till today


it's still ongoing and what is the hong kong government doing nothing, and and and, they let china rule of course china is is controlling hong kong but then is creating a lot of uh problems for the youngsters in hong kong now


and with the COVID, it's even worse I think, uh , K , so they should consult


other countries for for help, rather than you know internally they are trying to sort it out themselves which there's no conclusion, so because you see it the the riot has you know started since last last year right


ya but you you


because the the government itself do not understand cannot handle themself so they cannot and they they keep off falling back or to the china government, all they do is is to you know send more people to go in and and


and uh, attack their own people, so you know in the long run, the youngsters in hong kong, will will continue to fight against the the government


you're causing more casualty in that sense, and then people will start leaving the country also right you see the rich people already would all left the country who wants to stay behind so if they want their country to to you know go back to ideal economy to go back


to normal then they should start, uh you know, going to uh neighbouring matured countries to seek help


then I think we need you know a bigger organization like UN to come in and help, although we are not under the UN ah but some people who has some, more knowledge or you know on all these to come and and and help them


to come out of all these problems,


, I think the the next neighbouring countries should be thailand, , who had to build underground, piping


, because he said we we have been


ya but we we we have to to think also right uh another alternative if not uh eventually we will have no water also


ya it's true but the thing is that uh you know I, thinks when we have all these issue right it's better to have eh, third party to come and and help out


maybe it will solve the problem, and also maybe give you some ideas, how to work things out you know, because maybe this singapore and malaysia cannot see what is the problem


you need another , ya we have the the the JB singapore MRT problem where the train problem as well


how far ya part one debate topic one


okay so the the first one is how far is failure an essential part of success, !hey! I somehow agree on that because okay when, when we want to do something I I feel that it's a kind of experience that when something you fail and you know how to start to do it uh to get it better


so ya my personal experience is uh in uh during my my my working or when I do something not everytime I pass but I fail quite a lot and then I just keep on learning and learning from there and avoid the questions


okay but why why is it backfired because like for me I I think that if it's sometimes yes we we do get some backfire or some disencouragement on failure but then it does give us certain experience on oh and then


like this already happened I've done this thing in this way but then later on when the we start to look back and then when we start to try to improve something it will sort of like telling us oh you, you had that last time happened you know don't try to avoid that fit pitfall again right so it may may be a temporary


uh, shortfall or, negative impact but if you pick it up and then probably uh it will actually guide you, to nearer to easier to understand how to do be successful on what we want to do


so would would wouldn't it be is more on a personal , kind of a, character acceptance but they have to sort of like learn it from what the is failing, you don't try you won't know right


oh


but without failing they would not know they would not know how to it it it doesn't have the kind of point that I do one time I'll be successful what it's like cooking right it's it's example it when I the cook something I fail then I next time I try again


so harsh ah


why why why is failure not acceptable, (uh huh)


but it won't try if you don't try you will not be able to see how to how to get to the thing that you want to do, oh


but then if they fail how so just forget about the whole thing that they won't do


so they forever they would not success what okay


I mean just for my experience is I mean it's just now early I mentioned about cooking ya cooking is something like you know I put it a very simple example because when when I want to try some new dish I will not success as it's like I at when I bake a bread right I have fail many times


but I just have to try uh why last time is so hard then I sudden oh maybe last time I put the too too little water, and I put the too little yeast then the thing cannot come out or I bake overbake then I I do I would when I start to I failed one time then when the next time I try again and then probably it was sort of like eh last time I I I put too much uh


uh uh, uh sugar it was so sweet and then it hardened it and then later I change it again I'm probably a few tries ah you know then it may not be the best but at least it is slowing moving towards, uh uh making a better bread or something like that so


ya I'll think it it you someone really need to try it it cannot it there's no way that you can do one time and you you pass and then it will pass right


ya it is running, ya, okay can


you are saying it you see people ,


then, (mmhmm)


so then when they fail they just move on next one forget about whole thing, but isn't it very sad but if if if uh in the company if someone's like that right then the person who probably this person failed and then just leave like that then if you are working in in the company and act as a team how how they are working on a project and fail and then forget so the company or what forever never get a project


oh, oh


(mmhmm) isn't it very sad , , okay so, but I mean from my personal experience is probably uh, uh my my my character and people ah I would waive or whatever ah I would just like take it this failure whatever it it will never be a hundred per cent one


time hit the button and you know get it the bull eye then you you get it uh uh successful or what you want to do more a lot of fine tuning is required when definitely you will need a lot of uh chance to meet failure


uh, things is not what you expected to have and uh probably you expected to maybe you expected to earn one thousand dollar a month uh or or or uh in a small project but then I may get only I may totally get nothing or I may I may lose money but then I just have to fine tune where is it


uh what have I done wrong earlier and then what have I miss out and then I start to try it again so we are but I think it's quite sad that if people, just uh don't don't take this failure as part how are they going to be successful this is something that I I really don't understand how


okay okay


so they just run away they just fail fail and then don't don't even bother to then forever they will be in that kind of situation that, everything in life they do they will never never get it done, and then the what kind of life are they gonna have


until how long until how long ,


ya even study we will also fail what, told you they failed the exam how, go and bribe the teacher ,


but will the teacher give them average marks or whatever to pass, I think, nowadays not so easy right the teacher will just okay fail don't don't come go and do again go and repeat your year again, oh


can like that lah I didn't know nowadays the the the the societies is like that lah , is it is there okay


okay so we have uh two argument my side I think, it's very important to fail and then to pass hence jasmine's side is probably more on like okay some people fail fail and just run away from that don't need to be successful so I I really don't know how are


they going to uh be, achieving what they want under study PHD after PHD what are they going to do , , ah that is the tough life


uh, when it okay ya just now compared to those people where in the way we talk about those people fail failure in the terms of school and, it's it's a different thing ah when you fail in school you probably you can just continue to study you know okay okay maybe you fail and fail fail could just say okay get out to the society but then if you fail in a career path


right and then then the person who forever would never go up the properly uh, what to say they the career path probably they would just they never get promoted or sometime even the company will just tell them


okay either they keep them forever cold storage them in that position for long long time or even nowadays terminate them from from work so how are they if people like that right so how are they going to, to face this two part fail failing in school and failing in in the career path is totally different


, they keep switching it it's the same isn't that the same as okay I fail the subject okay then I have to do something and make it pass again so it's it's like maybe I didn't have do the proper way of studying and then


when I even if I switch to another module then I say oh last time maybe I study the wrong booklet lah then oh maybe the my method of studying is wrong I I learned from that and then I even I do another subject then I will have to read uh


uh relook into I I changed my studying method maybe I used to sleep at night I cannot concentrate I need to study the daytime or vice versa, so that is how I will get into at least pass my module if not I'll forever fail what


okay , okay so maybe in school okay but what about career path so if they they just continue to fail fail and then how


oh okay, okay , try to see this part ah


ya but just now were talking about this part right


when when jasmine are saying there are people who fail and then they just okay I quit the job, I failed I quit the job and I keep going on to another subject so that's why my term is if they are like that forever they will be either maybe like example the person is a receptionist okay I fail here I go to another industry into uh an industry again then forever until one day the person they just uh being


not able to to to be a good receptionist or forever stay there for is until one day they will not be able, to to to, get out of the reception or or they they even, uh eventually lose the part where they can even be a receptionist right


okay


so you would need it be like more on the luck whether that person can stay on the job for long time , , okay but I I personally I feel that it's really important you know is something like you try out ya maybe there are people who is like that but but


ah, I feel that it's really important you know get it fail try it out and then get it done there are people who is uh not everyone they will be successful not everyone but actually uh ya, is a bit difficult


but that is luck what that is luck what that is luck and nothing to do with failure


(mmhmm) so, uh, after failing you know if if the person want to stay in the same industries you know they fail but, uh, I don't know for for me I will think that you know even you want to stay in the same industries or you want to leave that at least part of parcel of life this is something that someone


you should really go through be it working, or personal life in everything you need to really try out, and then the ya, certain thing can give up lah certain thing can give up ah not everything lah


so they keep trying okay


part two debate topic two


okay the second topic is experience are more valuable, than material possession uh basically I agree because experience I think it's something there's a


uh the value cannot be count is something like I I learn, and it's something like I I feel it I you know be it uh, I I it's more feeling, then I will know whether I like this I do not like this I hate this I love this then the and


it was actually sometimes let me really see what I've gone through is it the, something that is very uh, what example I when I want to do something you know or the probably I uh what to say if I do a a a project on work


and then I have experience and that maybe my boss don't pay me well for that project or on my salary but, is something that is one of a while that I have a chance that to really say uh maybe I I I I try it and then I will see whether it's something I never have a chance do it in my


normal life you know like probably my boss say okay you go and you go and fly to india and experience india life for one month example okay it is may be very very tough, but it's something that I would not want to pay the money for myself to go for india for holiday but company is paying but then I'll experience it whether oh that is some culture difference the food taste is different


the living environment is different then that is something that I would say oh there is something uh probably is more memorable for me in life, and then uh I can come back and then I share with my friends I can share uh with my family and then this is something also that


the it it became part of my I think it will become part of the life experience ah I think that is my my view I agree on that


, very old meh are you very old


but isn't it be it probably my my my talk will be like if you say about what you mentioned you know age to age I would think that probably at the younger day probably


material possession is more important to me because it's like maybe younger days I want earn more money I don't care I want to earn more money I travel ah I I earn more I and then I I try to work myself very hard I get promotions then I save for all my money and then later at the older age right then this are all you know


life will be easier for me when I save, !aiya! old already you know don't don't don't, suffer so much by pushing my life so hard and then the I I still want to enjoy my life better so ya wouldn't it be more I mean younger days I think I I can do it lah you know I I would I would I would don't bother money is very important I want to get


promotion I want to get best of my life I want to get more salary increment I want to do this I want to do that, but the ya but still experience is a little bit uh, , requirement like because, when if I want to do something in my career or even my personal life this is something that on and off when even starting from young I need to do it ah experience it and then


I even if I want to do earn more money I need to have certain experience to see oh what is what is how I do it how I how I how I be able to make it better, how I uh maybe like a kind of experience in work eh my boss don't really like that lah so better do what don't do what the boss don't like lah


so I think that is something that uh be it young age or old age this is something, uh, it it can be important like the I I in material of course money is important, material is important then still it will be valuable that experience is money cannot buy people cannot give you and it will will be never be taken away is something I experience at


s<B> o they just do job job hopping, okay


okay


oh


but this one they cannot bring it for forever


(mmhmm)


in in the way material I think is something , I, would not say totally not important but it's the valuable you know we're talking about the the the point of valuable you know that people will think ya material is important but uh


but when you compare to values of experience and value of material possession, uh, experience is something that you you money may not be able to buy is something you, feel and then you you may have to you know like you


taste it you know is this a good experience is this a bad experience, and then uh maybe not only on the memory wise but it's more on like probably you know something that I I tried it and then uh or, something somebody did something or you have a very uh good or or very bad uh


experience in certain issue then it it is something that it may not happen forever material is something that is stay oh I like it I buy I earn again maybe I buy another diamond ring after few years, but experience you may not be able to buy right so after maybe once in a lifetime I experienced that example maybe I go bungee jump


ya until now I'm not trying bungee jump yet lah it's something like you know you once you try to do the bungee jump is like is once in a lifetime experience, or or or something then how this is something that you cannot get it people cannot


do it for you material other people can also buy but experience is own personal experiences


, ya but then ya but you you you you just for that moment, looking at it very happy what but when you really


the feeling ah hunger feeling, but let's say you have a stack of money and then I I take the money and then I go for I go and buy a a a take the money and go and try bungee jump right is something that the money I still can earn what


but bungee jump one time eh one time only and then the the feeling you know


, , ya so ya that's why is it experience what what I mentioned that you know money of course you can buy and then you be happy for the moment but then experiences is something like sometimes you may feel more happy you maybe you know the kind of


ya maybe when I'm I reach until eighty years old ah if I'm lucky enough I reach ah hundred years old ah it's something like I still can, !wah! I did that you know I went to uh, uh, uh north pole and feel the snow, and all it's like once in a lifetime experience rather than and then or maybe I I've done something that uh


if really money cannot buy then, maybe I I'm uh not a after a few while I say oh, okay at least I've experienced it I can be a better person but material is something just buy and can lose it mah


so, sometimes negative you know maybe the experience uh we talked about good experience but in a while, sometime we may have some bad experience right after having some, we wanted to achieve something but then something doesn't turn up to be what we want and then you say oh okay then I may I maybe I had tried to change maybe I'm a very bad character in certain thing then I okay I change it I change my style of living I change so it's it's something to improve myself to be a better person


, , so is more on like showing off to people but what about your personal self


probably uh experience is something I I may not be able to show off but then is more on like you know is my personal experience no one can experience you know, is like the, uh, something, other cannot tell me to do other cannot experience for me is my own feeling but the what you're saying material probably like what you say is more on like showing off to other people eh I have this diamond ring I have


so much of money but how how can it be uh is something is important but, probably a longer time valuable if you talk about valuable for lifetime ah uh ya isn't it important for that


, , ya


but if you if you have uh fail experience of with the family right you fail but you have the chance with your if you do something your experience with the family and then maybe had family is also very happy mah, this is something


why , ya but you turn old already then the kids will tell me you never bring, me to to to to the go snow skiing you never bring me to disneyland you know the experience of having some family moments experience good so the the your kids' futures eh you never come and uh we never have very good family life what so isn't that very important


you can you can pay money for holiday lah but then you pay your money ask your child to go only ya, , , , ya lah, ah so ya you're the probably we have the


material and then we go and then but then at the end of the day you will remember more on the experience or you remember more on the money you spent maybe I feel heart pain on the money I spent you know


such as holiday injury, ya then you say oh maybe I did not do very well then that is how I I try to


maybe I I did not do try a very much I uh not did not did not the have good the chance with my family I did not do well then I learn from my bad experience lah and then I change my maybe next time, last time I go for shopping holiday with my family but maybe end up we all fighting for for this then the next time we go we change next time my experience will be beach holiday then maybe different leh you try to change and switch mah


sure or not I think they will not remember me forever you know they may just say oh someone maybe after ten years I got this bag from someone they don't even remember


I give them the that that Louis Vuitton bag you know, uh then how I must engrave my name on the bag ah, then become no value ya but


then when when if if if you give me the the bag example I will of course definitely is very !wah! jasmine give me this bag is very nice right but then the experience of maybe


taking the bag right do I feel, happy or do I why do I get it you know is like uh how I get it probably is more on like, uh, taking the thing from me is probably for me I think is a short term memory and then I may just be ya jasmine but after a few years I may totally forgot that jasmine gave me the bag


ya lah you remember this person and that person I never remember who give me what


, , ya, okay


but why do you eh when it it must be something then it will not people will not really like just out of nowhere give you a present ah some more expensive present so it's probably something has uh, uh, is it probably let's say maybe it's my birthday you give me the present then I enjoy the experience of having the birthday party that you you spend the time with me so it's more memorable to me rather than oh I receive a lot of present from many people so ya


part three debate topic three, okay countries experiencing conflicts should be left out to solve their own problems how far I agree I think in a certain way I agree lah


because ya if I talking about currently situation I mean there are a lot of countries uh, uh, uh politically or or, financially or whatever right so their countries and countries who do a lot of uh uh


uh relationship whatever but then when it comes to, conflicts so probably the the most recent the topic you I think everyone is in its the COVID nineteen right so uh what kind of conflicts uh I can


I I somehow agree in a way that to avoid further misunderstanding sometimes , uh, uh sometime third country, get involved and gave wrong comment so they should believe like you know this is like uh two country or two parties issue they should solve themselves


rather than a third party don't don't really understand what is the whole real story behind uh listening a bit of here and there and then give some, uh comment or trying to get interfere and it may cause certain uh more anger to countries or


people and the ya people in the country may may end up being unhappy about what is being interfered and bothered by is like is my own problem why you get involved


, but isn't it if it's like okay the a lot of news we we are not sure whether all these news in is correct or not but being a, third party just looking at the news whatever


and then with the the third party may not be able to ah really understand to what is a real story and may give the wrong uh comment and then it may cause like instead of two country fighting then become three country or four country fighting so won't it be more painful but so taking let's say you mentioned about the food


like china is talking about the food from brazil the salmon from norway right so if they have talked about uh salmon from norway so shouldn't norway be be talking about them, asking what is the problem and what are the evidence to show that the the the fish is also being contaminated with uh the the COVID sickness the brazil pork is


uh they should settle uh brazil will say eh what are the evidence rather than the third party jumping in oh ya ya ya the uh the the starting to also put the news I think singapore straits times also, put it then it became uh news spreading out and then uh people like us you know as a normal people we read the news eh is is brazil pork okay to eat or not uh seafood from china packed in the most of our food is all pack in china or or


come from china is it safe to eat it it actually cause more worries than solving problem, so shouldn't country I'll I'll think that country and country if china is saying brazil this uh norway that they should settle themself to find out what is the cause of those problems


oh


help in a sense like let's say they need some uh first aid help I think the third, country or whoever is is, are capable of helping like singapore has also sent people red cross people or some medical help to certain countries when they those I I do agree that in a way that


are, third third countries or whatever can help in a way but we're talking about conflicts conflicts that, A country and B country never agree on certain thing and a third country get involved and say eh ya china it is very difficult to to who to side


right uh probably the north korea will side china, but uh, japan or any other country will side USA so and then it became, let's say is uh china and US problem and then, japan give a comment saying that ya US is right and then north korea will say ya china is right and then it create more fire than to to eh like it's like adding salt


into the problem, right and then the, people get more angry and then you know we have seen uh, sometimes china openly uh, uh, put on the speech you know by those uh what was that their their the government were openly put up a speech is a very very not nice and harsh words and say this is our problem you should not get involved isn't it more disgracing by being


uh, told off by certain countries that, don't get involved in my problem it's none of your business


, yup okay


ya I think more than you ya that I mean like like like hong, kong is is they always think that they are very uh, they should run their own country ah problems, and why their own government cannot handle because and other people don't really I mean they will just other country will try to say oh try to cool down this and that but then they will not really want to get involved because the the backing is china a lot of countries do not want to get involved in china is because


certain way sometimes if countries get, involve it will create more, probably problems, and certain more, pain you know people may (oo) oh I do not want to and then they end up like fighting you know two family fighting oh two countries fighting they may end up like oh I won't ah you own because countries sometimes countries and countries own money so they will come into a certain crisis that uh


financially they they they have problems of paying back certain money on time already and then certain countries may further go into you know ended up fighting right so sometime fight is more and then like the imminent case people would not want to get involve because


uh that there are rumors saying this is a a a a is not really a accident is probably a a internal internal you know uh, politics issue but then, people don't know I mean if you need help to go and help to rebuild the country of it everything is okay but if you start to go in and say ya this is


uh probably is a conflict between two government in that countries and end up they may have internal war you know and then who is going to get involved in this internal war who is going to solve it and then you may be blame on you are the one who create create the war start a war so it may be


getting the the things to get worse so like hong kong case if some come you don't know who to site you site the china country or you site the people either country you site used had problems so they should handled by themself


, but yes but then if the their their own countries are allowing all such things to then they deal the economy is not doing much better is worse then obviously they cannot solve their own problems and people get involved is maybe more like you're you're really again you know it's like uh putting oil in the fire again lah


so problem may be getting bigger and the you know if any other country like hong kong case people go in it may involve it may provoke the china country again and then uh he may start to have further for conflict and then, uh decline on some trade wars then it may create to it let's say china or or US would saying okay ah this country get involved I I do not want to


uh I want to stop certain trade with this country then like if let's say singapore get involved then singapore government will have problem of getting supplies, or food it it from or certain uh business trade it may cause economy ended up we ourselves be impact as a third country involving in the case which is


not really our own problem


yes , ya


, ya malaysia water


but but malaysia water is something do with singapore and malaysia for fifty years right how can a third countries get involved this is a problem where they are physical contract signed fifty years ago or maybe, more now I can't remember the years but then


who can who can come and get involved, you know this is something both malaysia and singapore government have to solve our own problem ourselves like singapore is trying to get, more uh ways of getting water that's why we are great do doing the what is that the new water right uh this is how singapore is trying to solve no choice if one day we may not be able to get water from malaysia right and malaysia is threatening to increase the price


of water supply to us is so much, and yet want to get free water treatment from singapore, right so, I mean this is something that if a third country come involve that histories involved there are


uh long term problems that are in no no third country can give us water beside the sky, oh but isn't it very far for them to give us a water


ya then then if if if if thailand if let's say thailand able to supply water for us that is creating malaysia to hate thailand more and then want to cut off relationship with singapore what then we have a lot of


uh very close relationship with malaysia then uh then they let's say they don't want to they don't want to them uh, approved certain let's say uh they want to cut the malaysian to come to singapore to to do as certain work and then singapore don't have enough manpower to work and then we got more problem again


ya so it it is it is a singapore should solve our own problem also rather than we allowing a third country come and say !hey! singapore you should you should uh the third country may come and tell ya you are


you are getting a very cheap water from malaysia for too long you are eating into malaysia for too many years you know the market rate you should be paying ten cents per litre instead of two cents per litre, so and then singapore may fear why this third country is talking so much on this is nothing of your own problem ah we have a contract what and doing water treatment for them for free you know you give me two water two pipe of water I give you one pipe water this is already a free service already


so why should the third this third country come and involve and then comment on such thing that you don't really know the the internal stories


there are many problems ah , I think singapore singapore got involved with internet uh malaysia with some some small island I cannot remember the the english name of the island small little island malaysia said that is theirs singapore say that is ours


K, part one debate topic one


oh I see okay eh okay carry on carry on sorry


okay apparently <P2>letchman</P2> you don't have to take up the whole twenty minutes we can actually take turns I just read it on the chat so so so take a take a break, okay so take a break now and then maybe i'll lock down some of your points okay so let's start with what you mentioned about I'm so sorry man I didn't know you just went on and on and let you try to fill in the space okay


so let's talk about what you did uh with uh points to do with buildings and talking about modern tech improving lives in food and drinks and all this, okay but the easiest point to knock this down is the fact that it's not always going to improve quality of life if we are going to look at the environment


pollution is the biggest issue here modern tech comes with that kind of sacrifice right we talk about air pollution we talk about water heat noise pollution even these are all caused by producing technology or even using the technology, right when you talk about manufacturing technology especially digital tech right when you talk about handphones and how they are so useful but all these also means that with with with this new culture this consumer culture where we keep wanting to buy something new upgrade to the latest device what happens to the old ones


what happens to the old ones is basically they're always there they're outdated and they become waste right and how do exactly do we get rid of this waste adds to more landfill cause it's not exactly the most recyclable uh you know uh devices like you know in terms of components and structures, so all these actually adds to pollution right electronics get thrown out computers get thrown out just for something version the next version the next upgraded version right so this is all pollution lah and environment is uh a big a big issue here so even though there's a lot of uh ways that it has improved the quality of life


I think uh maybe the bottom line is uh when we talk about environmental impacts pollution is a big issue lah okay then we move on to something to do with uh communication !wow! you mentioned the handphone is amazing, oh it's helped us all you know ah okay, but look at the psychological issues behind all of these I'm sure you know this just that you have to argue the proposition but I'm so sorry man look at the kind of mental health issues that we're dealing with people are becoming


uh they have this need for instant gratification that itself is a big issue right we we see it as young as three year olds who just uh get on their iPads and then after that it just translates to other aspects of life, right they they have this need for gratification that comes almost instantly the need for reward


they can't hold off right no tolerance and what does this lead to I mean uh if I wanna extrapolate and really go down a slippery slope uh we're going to look at a drug habits that we can't prevent right dependence and uh just easily hooked and addicted to all kinds of uh vices


alright what else we talked about social isolation we think we are more and more connected but actually, we are not the more connected we are the more isolated we become the more we are exposing ourselves to depression when we do social comparisons online looking at other people's uh you know post whether they're real or not


but, post about uh how they're leading better lives or doing much better, better but all these is just adding to all these uh well psychological issues lah I would say !huh! , what else are we looking at here, oh oh you mentioned transportation ya okay well we're living in a time now with COVID nineteen so we do know


the problems of interconnectivity right globalisation and everything that's happened we say it's good transportation modern tech has helped everyone you know, leverage on this and become more connected and move uh move people in large in large bulk large scale migration uh economics of uh of countries are now uh interconnected as well because of this kind of transportation that allows imports and exports


uh but uh now we look at what happens as a result right all the harms well viruses are easily sent across borders uh without any need for passing through security or being stopped by all these border, control officers security is is is a big issue with people with uh whether whether with a good intentions or not freedom fighters or terrorists


but we would allow them to enter countries more easily because of transportation whether it's sea land uh or air right economics of country why was I talking so much about economics because look at countries when one country has an issue uh we talked about brexit


uh or even we look at uh certain political leaders like trump right certain uh decisions made uh in an instant and automatically the the the effects the ripple effects in the markets they crashed all across the world asia is not uh you know isolated from this impact uh or even uh I mean let alone uh


continents as far as europe right almost everybody has to deal with a backlash with any small change or issue, right, but let's look at something, uh closer to home like education right we say modern tech is supposed to improve the lives of students right it remember to tap your screen and say okay ya


okay so it let's say it's supposed to improve lives but look you're losing fundamental skills here, the ability to read you know from books like it's very different you know using your eyes to trace over and look for words uh as opposed to reading off a screen, right and you keep scrolling across the screen the ability to write even when you keep typing and then you lose the that ability to write it's simple motor skills that actually develop your coordination your ability to think synthesizing information summarizing information all these is lost because everything is at your fingertips when you just go online


because modern tech also means digital technology right so everything is at your fingertips when you go google and I google everything and I don't need to discover so the spirit of discovery is lost and then we talk about, other effects which means the teacher's role is affected what then becomes of the teacher there is no teacher student hierarchy anymore


right because the students all think they are amazingly equipped with knowledge because they can get it all at their fingertips the sheer availability of information is a problem borne by modern technology because this means, they they they have information right but the problems here is what do they do with this information there's a lot of misinformation fake news false information out there are they able to detect that are they able to critically appraised this information


of course I don't think so lah so these are always ways where I don't think they exactly improves the quality of lives people are deluded to think that improves the quality of lives but actually you know there are all these uh unknown or unintended consequences to modern technology even medical technology when we say medical technology helps


uh you know improve lives prolong lifespans because now if people fall ill, uh well don't worry you know just go for surgery get some medication there's always some new cures that are being found, uh ethics is a problem and we know about that but let's just talk about the main issue to do with people we become too lazy and sedentary lifestyles start taking over because we know for a fact that no matter what happens it's okay !hey! there's always some medical tech that's going to prolong my life and save me like a pacemaker


or uh you know I'm gonna have some new cure some insulin injections , , eh go ahead man say something


but if we are talking but if you are talking about expensive technology then it's not exactly going to be made accessible for people to have their lives improved right, I mean we talk about all these availability of using uh you know air or wind or electricity I mean not electricity but uh other more renewable resources for for electricity I mean for technology to harness


but then again it's so expensive and then when it's passed down to the consumer it well they don't exactly get to use it right even in singapore I mean think about solar panels, right, how expensive they are just to implement


which one this one


part two debate topic two


it's a tough one for him man


you know what <P2>letchman</P2> let's just have a conversation around this cause it's, pretty tough I think for you ya just raise a point you know just talk about it lah


I mean what is effective farming to you


basically it's not for self, it's ya it's not far it's not a a normal farm where you just farm for yourself lah for self sustenance this is for actual export and agricultural productivity is important


okay sorry uh are you then assuming that science here refers to modern technology or in this case you know technology that is past the industrial age or


then that goes down to basic fundamental science that is involved in every single aspect like you mentioned you know species knowing what, what environmental factors affect them knowing basic science to do with you know what kind of chemicals are involved in terms of fertiliser what nutrients your plants need uh in order to grow well you know for agricultural output so there is almost no way you can argue that there is farming without science


you know let alone effective farming but uh even to do with you know using ploughs I mean if you want to bring back to traditional times of farming, that involves science no matter how you look at it right so how exactly would you consider


okay lah so with some advancements in with understanding the genetic genetic engineering genetically modified crops


okay, okay let me put it this way let me put it this way okay okay let's say we consider traditional methods distinct and different from uh what we constitute something that has uh science involved right but, today we we we agree


or at least we acknowledge that the climate has changed agree drastically so a lot of places where you know farmers are very familiar with their land conditions they are all surprised and shocked with what they have to deal with agree, to some degree right so with all these changes in climate we have to leverage on uh technology I mean in this case science is technology we have to leverage on this technology where traditional methods may just no longer work


because you know you have to deal with injecting new methods to make the land fertile for longer or uh just becoming arid or dealing with temperature right building or installing actual green rooms, to uh ensure that the plants can produce at that level of uh the supply to meet the kind of demand that the world requires


so I feel like you are kind of agreeing with me here that it's just not possible without science right to meet that kind of output


, okay I mean I do understand that these are some of the the you know consequences right and and what we're looking at but the question again comes back uh the I mean the the question posed to us is basically is it then possible can you then effectively farm or produce you know agricultural output


to meet whatever uh to meet this demand again right because no matter what you can't stop the consumption patterns and you can't stop that it is ever increasing right in terms of population, so, is it even possible can effective farming even take place without the help of science


or are we then definitely in a position where we have to leverage on science uh in this case I mean let's look at something slightly different uh let's look at GM right I mean that's a big area of science when we talk about effective farming so to speak it's everywhere now in the supermarkets


uh they don't even label it or let you know anymore, because almost all uh fruits plants uh whatever type of vegetable types that you you collect, or you buy right you purchase they have uh some form of uh genetically modified uh component whether it's you know intra whether it's the gene at the gene level or you know uh with the species and how they hybridise the kind of uh plants lah


uh just to ensure that you know they survive longer or they're bigger they're more juicy or they are they stay ripe longer you know these kind of things so it's I just think it's not possible at all, without science you'll just not be able to create any food that specific, to this new preference among the world population for having a customised a personalised need right even organic food that requires science you know just to get to that uh to meet the kind of demand for organic clean food


right so science you need science you you can't just you can't do without science so I'm gonna give you the last eight minutes so just take it away man do whatever you want with it


where was science then !huh! ya they need, so I mean even even in terms of research right science science involves scientific research just experimentation in order to get to the right kind of condition so that that is also a necessity here right research is definitely required to determine what kind of best conditions you need for farming


culling culling is the method lah ya so, consumption how much you need is it okay


so what is so what is the alternative here that you are referring to without science then what what are you referring to traditional methods go back to the the old, ways of using the buffalo and just you know sowing seeds all across the fields and hoping for the best in whatever climate conditions that you have


, I mean think about it right I mean if you say it's possible without science then what exactly is the alternative that we are looking at I mean okay I'm going to go along with that line of thinking right I think uh if we can control our need


our our our demand right like you like you mention okay let's say we control the the demand for uh this output then how exactly will the supply uh, meet the demand without science, without any scientific methods


okay so you're talking time travel time travel is that what you is that what you mean you say go back in time


increase the diseases around the world and see if we can get lucky reduce the population size everywhere, I mean okay let's just brainstorm let's just brainstorm I'm on the same side as you don't worry I'm on I'm on your side right now so what exactly can we can we do I mean do you think space would you consider that part of science I mean if we consider uh farming using like space


I mean I I'm trying to refrain from using the world technology but ya space tech or, ya like aeroponics or you know even growing food or whatever, ya


so it's still science right


ya but that's a big thing you see because we the the supply will meet the demand right and right now that is the new world culture that with people all around the world have have have grown have grown to want, the want for specific customised preferences whether it's food or whether it's clothes or whether it's anything I mean brings us back to our previous uh topic lah on modern technology and how it affects us right whether it really does improve our quality of life well in one way if it does improve quality of life it's because we become more used


to having customisation and personalised experiences I mean that's why you own a google phone you you you probably I mean just assuming here right so, opposed using you know run of the mill Samsung or or I mean that's why people are so crazy for the iPhone because it's just something that carries that idea that idea that they can have


something that is personal or personalised to their own preferences seedless watermelons seedless grapes uh grapes that change colours you know, from green to blue to purple I I don't know I don't know you know chocolate grapes I don't know, so


ya so going back to that point again I think it's just impossible to say uh you know we we can't stop people from uh or stop at society from advancing, we can't stop culture that's uh it's continuously evolving and changing and is beyond our control it's a world culture it's globalised right or glocalised I mean whatever you want to put it so it's it's just impossible to stop that and agriculture has to meet


right food has to meet that uh that demand I mean look at our eggs right once upon a time we were happy with just having, white eggs whether duck eggs or chicken eggs but today you go into the market and you're spoilt for choice because you you start to think about you know being more health conscious and then you are looking for omega three


or you're looking for uh eggs with less cholesterol I mean I don't know how you even do that eggs with less cholesterol unless you are you're inject you are putting in a syringe and and pulling out egg yolk uh I guess I don't know okay or you're force feeding the chicken something, right


so uh ya


okay so I I I think we we we we kind of reached a point where we moved away from discussing whether it's possible with or without science and we are talking about , the the unintended consequences of uh of of, effective farming or trying to farm uh you know to to meet this kind of uh huge demand and you have a big problem with uh the population size of the world {ah} I see you


have a , K


part three debate topic three


please do not say it should be embraced because it's inevitable, , because it's here


let me help you out there maybe we we can call it uh adaptive technology if that helps, right ya something that always helps to adapt to the human needs or our our uh our specific uh goals or task ya or or smart technology right


well I would say it's here when I see terminator in person you know , so why should we embrace it exactly well let me tell you why I think you should not embrace it, ya if that helps and then you can kind of just counter argue that well okay let's talk about


K since we were talking about adaptive right adaptive, so I mean my car I have adaptive cruise control okay and I've gone so reliant on it to the point when now when I drive I actually take my feet off and and and I sit on the chair right with my legs folded because I don't need to touch the accelerator pedal again once I set the cruise cruise mode it will just keep


moving to that speed or slow down accordingly their cars in front and uh basically from start to end you'll be able to just use that kind of adaptive technology lah to so so to speak ah the AI in the car but


one thing that you can't prevent, uh the need for, quick thinking and human decisions right that kind of reflex actions required when other drivers on the road because not all cars are driverless cars right so not everyone is relying on such technology other cars or lorries or other kinds of vehicles on the road uh make


, well a lapse in human judgment perhaps okay and uh cut into your lane very quickly or you know with very little , space between you and the next car right uh and this kind of adaptive cruise control may not have sensors that can read it fast enough


and what happens is of course collision and then you come into that that that grey area right whose fault, is it the owner of the driver or is it the AI itself and if so how are you going to bring AI accountable for this in this case right so should we really embrace AI to that degree where we feel it should be completely welcomed in our lives and allow us to become


dependent on it and uh reliant, , that's something that should be called into I mean something of consideration lah


electricity you mean right electric cars ya Tesla electric, ah yes self uh driverless cars okay


uh there are still accidents do not assume they're no more accidents from these uh driverless cars there are still plenty of accidents when they are out on the main road


uh do not forget experiences do not forget emotions experiences the ability to judge according to situations so you require the emotional intelligence social intelligence right it's not just, ruling from the heart !whoa!


I beg to differ okay


do you really think our whole spectrum of emotions can be programmed by algorithm and reach that level of, calculation where the entire so, so you believe cyborgs will be can pass off as uh human beings or androids can pass off as uh actual human beings


but we have seen plenty of times where people just don't follow such, uh heuristics you know they don't they don't I mean not heuristics but in this case they don't follow such structured uh processes or pathways in terms of how they behave there's in I mean just look at the human species itself not even animals right just humans themselves right among humans


you know that there's no clear uh, like there's no clear explanation that fits for, every single human being right when we talk about psychology when we talk about social psychology right there may be group norms there maybe social norms but even then


every single one of them are just theories because they know there are always exceptions there will always be unique circumstances or unique cases idiosyncrasies in different people that that or even impulse, right even on impulse people make different decisions so it's almost impossible to capture all these with algorithm to what degree can you capture what you do not know


right you know what you don't know but what about the unknown right how do you capture that in the algorithm because after all you need to be nods and wants right


randomness yes yes, exactly and AI will not be able to capture that kind of uh you know humanness uh random factors you know that are evolved


okay I I I I raise this to you okay so they they decided to use algorithm in uh courts right in in california actually there was a test case uh, couple of test cases actually and this was for uh a murder charge okay a murder charge and they used AI to decide if the person was guilty or not


uh besides the fact whether the person was guilty or not but don't you think, some decisions right that I mean, there is a need for using a jury there is a need for the judge to weigh in on situations as opposed to allowing a simple computer to just let you know what is you know your outcome whether you live or die right these are like I mean we're really moving this to the extreme circumstance where we see


if AI should be welcomed at all in our society because if we give it an inch and it starts moving forward and already we see it everywhere people are just going to grow more and, more accustomed to having AI around and they say !hey! you know this is just how technology is we have to accept that these are the affordances of technology there may be some setbacks some disadvantages here


but uh you know we should go ahead and accept it but I feel algorithms will just not be able to determine, these kind of decisions humans are necessary, but the reason I bring this up is because in workplaces everywhere now right especially after this COVID situation people see that humans are dispensable workers are dispensable


technology can take over everything and AI especially so, because things that require decision making while we leave it to algorithm and computers to decide what then needs to be done whether it's uh uh the logistics chain, or even in political decision making are you comfortable with that though are you comfortable with having your new parliament laws or something written into the constitution because the AI decided that this would be so or rejecting something that would help a specific group of


a segment in the population uh that are suffering right socially disadvantaged but the AI feels that economically so or based on whatever other factors that it has uh computing this to be a poor decision and therefore not helping this group of older gentlemen or handicapped or people who are socially disadvantaged


I just see all these as problems and that's why I would not uh you know think that it should be embraced no matter how, how much we recognise or acknowledge that technology is going to move forward and evolve and AI is already here and it's just gonna keep evolving and reaching a point of time where


uh they are as alive as you or me and it could be participating in a debate or even talking right having emotions and sharing but uh we should not embrace it, ya I mean I'm coming from a emotional standpoint ah here uh emotional perspective we should not embrace


why to escape the moral responsibility of having made the decision, K but some biases actually help you see because I mean we we have we have looked at jury cases and you know statistics point out why juries are still the most reliable form


, when you come to decision making and it's not necessary true that people are just biased creatures who will always find in favour or listen to what they hear and decide, unreliably, if you know what I mean


I have I have


how do you expect the AI here to to be able to detect you know those uh nuances


and then that defeats the purpose of using artificial intelligence to begin with because


would you would you though I mean it leads to me to me what I see is still it becomes superficial the interaction is a lack of emotional connection with uh you know real human emotional connections with other people it's actually to leading to a more socially isolated society if everybody becomes like the way


okay but then we go down to the, but reproduction is a big issue isn't it because ultimately we want our species to survive and if you're gonna deal with just allowing people to form strong social connections and emotional


bonds with AI what then comes of the next the next step I mean let's look at it, from the point of view where uh man uh lead to romantic uh connections with , uh women ah or female I mean if you can even give them a gender right the feminine artificial intelligence


intelligence I mean uh I mean where does it lead in the end, in terms of, does it does it though does it because now you, you I mean reason it's a human uh need right to reproduce, uh to keep our species going right eh we we can't prevent that we need to as a species for survival so let's just


there's just no way we should allow that to happen we should not allow such things to happen, right don't you think so, it's not like allowing robots to cook eggs for us you know this is like forming


even in some dystopian uh futuristic movie if this happens my question will be why in the world would you need an AI to do that


do you think it will work in the end between human and human after having a substitute like the AI in place, look


I get I get what you mean but I just I just don't see it I just don't think this is gonna work it's just, , well okay let's let's look at it from a religious standpoint then okay if you are going to embrace AI


and this gonna it's gonna raise a lot of uh uh a lot of uh I mean uh it's gonna be uncomfortable for a lot of people right who have uh very strong religious views about uh where, uh creation comes from right what is


, you know like uh I mean if you're, giving AI that kind of responsibility and power, , don't you think it will make a lot of people kind of, upset because ultimately they believe that there is a higher power at play and not everything can be spelt out by science


part one debate topic one


oh no what are the questions okay there okay ya


okay so so the question is, does modern technology always improve the quality of people's lives , and I'm gonna be talking as an as the proposition so I think the question here the emphasis is


on always so always is an absolute and you know it's easy it's easy to to say that you know uh absolutes are very hard to justify because there'll always be situations where you can say that


that you know it's it's not always the case there'll be there'll there'll be some exceptions, so uh before we continue I'll just want to define technology so technology I would define as something that uh that helps uh uh uh to make certain parts of our lives easier uh or more convenient


uh , ya and uh it's true the understanding of certain sciences and things but technology itself refers to devices or or contraptions that help us to make our lives easier so


coming to the coming to my first point does modern technology always improve the quality of people's lives so I would say I'm gonna use the classic argument and say that, technology itself is future and that it's the it's the user who defines whether the technology is useful or not so


uh in an ideal worlds uh situation uh we would have people , uh using technology to help uh improve various parts of their lives and and we are seeing that in our lives today definitely so we see things from uh technology helping us just live better like in terms of our


accommodations uh right from improving the way we build things to the way the way we use things uh whether it's a phone to to communicate with people to this the social domain uh we have technology in terms of the internet, to connect with people to access information we have uh automobile devices uh to to to help us with our transport to to in getting ourselves from place to place uh we have aeroplanes uh for transport as


well and of course uh, it also goes down to uh things that we consume uh in terms of food in terms of drinks, as well as uh as well as uh uh uh uh more, consumer product like uh fashion and and and and and accessories uh so basically technology is everywhere today you know if if you if you look around you you know it's very hard to


not come across a piece of uh uh uh technology so the question is does it always improve the uh quality of, people's life ya so my my point is that it has the capacity to improve uh and uh, if the user wishes to use it use it destructively then it is the user that's not


uh, improving the quality of people's life by the way that they use technology rather than than uh technology itself, uh okay okay so uh yup


uh wait how long do I have more , okay yup so uh, ya uh yes uh so uh when we when we talk about quality of of life


uh you know traditionally in in in in in a scientific way we would describe quality of life uh in terms of uh in terms of uh, the physical uh quality of our lives in terms of physical health we talk about social relationships we talk about the environmental factors so as I mentioned a few examples just now you know we have uh used technology in various ways and they have you know


greatly uh improved their lives now you know it's ya like I said it's very hard to imagine a world without without technology unless you're living as a monk uh but uh even then you know , uh even if you talk about people who who live away from uh


the modern society modern civilization there is still technology involved there uh so if you think if you think about how uh you know you have buildings uh how do you construct buildings uh you use technology because you use devices that are modern that involve certain uh engineering


and uh that is technology and uh you know unless you are really living with just a cloth around your body, and you are a hunter gatherer uh you know uh uh uh you know


if I was I was going to say uh if you are living on sustenance farming but even sustenance farming you use uh contraptions to to help uh make the the the farming process a bit easier, uh so, I would go on to say that you know as long as we're using certain tools


you are uh using technology in your life to make things easier and it it it improves the quality of life of your life definitely I suppose you know the the counter argument might be that uh


people have used uh uh terrorist technology out there that is just for the purpose of destruction, so, uh so this can be things like I mean the easiest uh thing to think about would be


bombs or uh things that just destroy lives of people but of course uh we can go down to things like uh uh malware uh uh uh in in uh in the internet uh that has been created just for the purpose of uh capturing people's data to


to perpetuate uh viruses and and you know you would think these are intrinsically bad, but I would say that that, again it's about how you use uh these things so for example the same technology that I talked about uh whether it is bombs uh so if if we if we look at the creator of uh


of uh the first uh I think the first TNT which is uh uh alfred nobel he created the the nobel prize and and he, he when he created the first uh the explosive device it was never meant for destruction I think it was meant to uh to clear a space or something like that


so but and and you know even if we talk about you know malware and things like that the technology that's available there is is is uh was never used for for uh was never meant for, tracking other people or capturing data it was to monitor


to, ya it was to monitor uh uh to it was to monitor uh without going to that place physically and you can monitor somebody else's laptop and uh you can help them uh troubleshoot with the uh IT related uh problems and it's about how the users use the technology to to ultimate


utimately uh make it whether it is uh improving people's lives or not


(ppc)


I, can I just I I'll just use the last two minutes to to to say something I guess a lot of the points you brought up are are really good uh good points uh but at the essence of it I think it can be summarized in one way which is


it which is the over-reliance of technology ya is not necessarily the same as, technology being bad for you so I think as with most things uh using too much of certain thing can be bad for you whether it's just you know consuming food you know if you eat too much food you will you know you're gonna get obese you gonna die eventually but you still need food to survive right


so my point is uh let's let's talk about pollution you know we have learnt of uh technology and no doubt you know the the amount of electricity we consume is is humongous it has so much uh it leave so much carbon footprint and and as well as the transport that we we take


but it's that what I believe is that the technology also exists for us to be more environmentally friendly so there is technology out there that that converts solar energy to to to consumable energy but coming back to my previous point which is what about how


we use technology so there is technology out there ya because of economics you know it's not it's not so feasible to to to to the layperson that is true, uh but this is a economic issue it's not about the availability of technology and what technology can do or what it cannot do and uh fifty seconds


ya so my point would be that that's that's an issue about economics economics because it's about demand and supply right so we have a lot of oil right now to be used uh for traditional uh what you you burn from fossil fuels at at power plants uh


and and that's just the way because you know there's so much supply and you know there's, and there's a lot of demand as well sorry I think we are


okay part two debate topic two


okay okay maybe, ya so let me just uh have some points uh so I think uh eventually when looked at this topic ya as you said you know it's much easier to to oppose this because it seems that it's it's very hard to imagine effective farming without science


ya so you know what I was thinking about was providing a great quantity, of uh of uh of uh, whether it's agriculture output or what uh food supply and it's to


that's that's right yes so it's an entire, industry and it's very hard to uh propagate the industry without using science because you have so many things that could prevent


the the the the the the amount of uh of output that you want uh you know, from things like uh plant pathology you know you you have to understand plant pathology to understand what are the things that what are some of diseases that plants could have which could possibly reduce the the output but now that when I'm just thinking about this as as somebody who wants to defend this uh this this idea I would say that


effective farming , if you look at it in terms of, being just sufficient for a small uh group of people, then you don't need science uh because if you if you just look back at like a few hundred years back when we didn't have such modern technology such modern understanding of sciences uh we have lived you know humanity has continued to grow


uh in fact I would say that it's been there are advantages to not have farming in the industrial scale using science which is which is that


I'm just uh thinking about science as the understanding of how what is the best way to increase the output of uh of uh the growth


okay I see what you mean ya so I guess it has do with the definition of science because if you really want to get down to the the the the micro level of it science can go down to just understanding cause and effect so


even if you if you say I I drop a seed and the seed will grow once you add uh water and some fertiliser that is science you can you could argue that that is science because it takes a level of understanding that you know, the seed uh uh it's something that grows into a plant which requires certain set of conditions to grow to grow and then you know it can be cut and then can be consumed


and that could be science but I guess my understanding of science at least for this topic would be, that it involves a higher level of higher grade a higher level of understanding of of how things work in terms of farming so I would I would


ya so I would say at least pre tertiary to tertiary level of uh of understanding and uh ya so


I would say that you know what we have is great because you know you are we are be able to to feed large number of people uh with effective farming through the use of science but I would say there are some side effects to that as well which is, uh it creates a lot of you one thing is that you know going back to uh <P2>royston</P2> your previous point which is it it creates a lot of uh I mean


comparing to the past we have moved away from relying on ourselves to to to to feed ourselves through you know sustenance farming right uh so that part of your life is taken care of you know there's an industry you just pay money and they'll give you, so that uh frees up to do other things but you know the bad things is that you know you you're not working so hard uh physically it's easier to put on weight


yup


that's right but I would say that what has happened uh through the course of civilisation is that, our farming has been so effective through the ages through our advances uh in understanding sciences, and technology and the byproduct is that our population has grown exponentially because you know uh one of our basic needs are met so when when when uh the population grows so much


it needs more as well and that has a very detrimental effect on the on the environment because we're consuming so much and it's not just people that are consuming our livestocks uh most of the the the, the the output from uh these farms are actually being consumed by uh cows and and uh and uh and


no so what I'm saying is that uh is that science, has a side effect where it creates so much output and it creates uh it feeds too many people I would say, in that and people are reproducing too much as a byproduct and then you know it it just uh one after another you know it so eventually there's going to be a a huge civilisation you know it's gonna take up so much of of the resources from of the earth and


, ya


ya so I was just going to say that you know like coming back to my previous point that you know how we have survived uh without science before or or or a high level of science but then of course I will think uh I I got reminded of uh


various various uh famines that have uh greatly uh uh that have greatly impacted uh civilization you know the top one will be the irish famine ah the potato famine uh, and and you know it


ya so ya that's a bit hard to hard to


so I would agree that for the current population that we have on earth you will need science but for effective farming but, that's not to say that we will always need science for effective farming if we were to greatly cut down


uh or or if we greatly control the the amount of people that we have on earth in terms of reproduction or whatever and it it's, so I mean not to kill them but you know just just prevent them from reproducing but the point is that uh just be more or you'll just have more penalties about about about uh having more children


ya so uh you know it is possible to have uh uh farming methods without science


(ppc) I think, I think it's possible to to imagine a a scenario where we have we use uh traditional methods of farming to meet the demands of a small group of people of course the the group of people that we have now it's it's humongous it's it's very hard to


but uh no but, maybe see the the there is there is


, !wow! this is very difficult , okay (ppc)


you mean like aeroponics uh


I I I I would still consider it like uh tertiary level science which is not not at the ya ya so I mean what I can say is that what we have now, is is probably is probably more than what we need so in terms of like if you if you if you talk about you know the GMs right the genetically modified food uh we have things that we definitely don't need for example seedless watermelons seedless guavas that just how that's just borne out of convenience you know people just don't want to spit out the seeds after eating


uh what if we imagine I mean so I mean it's it's very hard to imagine a society uh with the world right now without uh effective farming because there are just that many people to sustain right so it's it's very difficult to imagine without science but you know at the rate that we are going now


you know it is possible because we are seeing uh so much land being used uh for industrial needs industrial purposes and we have you just think about the rainforest right , and you know a lot of the the even though the the the the the farms that got agricultural uh cultural uh places


you know people are are are people, people are using it so much you know so the the traditional ways to you know you you you you have uh uh uh certain amount of uh crops you grow in that land, you know and over the seasons uh they will bear fruit and then you know you take the fruit and then you know you take out the plant you have to start the process again but the traditional way is that you give it some time because the land needs time to recover


uh but what is happening now is that the land is not having enough time to recover because there's just so much demand and the farmers need to meet this demand you know otherwise they lose out their competitor comes in and and and you know so the land is being used so so so much and effectively over time what's happening is that this land


uh is being destroyed which which not which not able to sustain uh crops anymore so it's it's possible to imagine a future where you know we are going to have a difficulty uh finding enough land to grow our crops, what then what can we do then uh what


will we come back to the same problem of like culling people because you just can't sustain this population, uh people will just die off because they can't afford uh, if if land is so scarce then then obviously the prices of the crops uh whatever uh that you grow will be very expensive you know the the wealthy will be able to afford the poor will die out and then effectively you know you will have a smaller population uh is that what's going to happen or ya what's the alternative


part three debate topic three, sure


uh I I I I, ya it sounds like something thanos would say I am inevitable ya I mean just to get the the discussion going uh , ya it's it's it's uh so artificial intelligence AI should be embraced because it's inevitable


uh I mean like I mean okay let's start with defining what is artificial intelligence so artificial intelligence I would, define it as something so it's it's it's it's more than technology you know it technology is just something that helps you make your life easier


yup adaptive technology is a is a is a good


that's right that that's a good way to describe it because it's something that is able to read the situation and change accordingly right so that's that's adaptive, , so artificial intelligence is here it's it's uh uh


and and there's and there's so many applications of uh of uh artificial intelligence , ya so


okay sure


yes so so when, when I when I when when I talk about embracing artificial intelligence I I'm not saying that AI is perfect right now what I'm saying is that


AI has the potential to be, much greater in the future, and by embracing it we're giving giving it this platform to develop uh to to do much more than what it can right now so I I I fully acknowledge there are several limitations to AI at this stage yes but we should still embrace it and only by embracing it we can take it to the next step so


coming to your point about using AI for uh in in cars to to detect uh to for example cruise control but also you know to help us in you know we have uh we have already some of these uh Tesla cars where you know they are able to


ya, electric cars but also there are self driving cars we we have self driving cars, and you know when self driving cars first came out they were tested there were uh people were talking about how uh it was


reported there was an accident and people were just talking about ya just look at that you know that just shows that you know that we can't rely on artificial intelligence even computers make mistakes but what I would say, ya


ya so that's what I'm saying that it has been reported that there are still accidents and I I I say and I say that ya there are accidents and I'm not saying that I'm not denying the accidents there are there uh but what I'm saying is that that that the problem there is not so much with, it is the problem with the AI at its current form at its current form


but by embracing AI we are saying that that we're giving it this opportunity to grow so uh if we talk about the so so you were making you were, you were you were saying that you know it's very difficult for computers to make uh some human level judgments that you know it's very uh that's right so but if you think about cognition if you think about uh human level judgments what is there involved actually


it involves reading stimuli reading uh things that is already around you and, yes that's right that's right


that's right but, but I would say all those things can be programmed as well emotional intelligence experiences can be programmed as well the computer, the computer can be told that these are the these are like n number of uh situations that could arise if you make this move if you make that move we just haven't come up with the full full list of uh things that that you know can happen it doesn't mean that


yes so we talk about this in philosophy as the zombie right so a zombie is somebody you know that feels alive that looks alive when you hit it you know it will it will say that it's that this a philosophical zombie not the ya it'll say that you know it it hurts but you'll never know if it really feels pain


so uh, I would say that it is possible to uh so I think this is coming from a very deterministic view which is that all human behaviour, uh stems from uh


prior events so A leads to B B leads to C uh C leads to D you know if you think about everything


yes so, so yes so you you are talking about a degree of uh of uh of uh randomness you can say uh so


you know you're saying that sometimes you know people make decisions because uh they just feel like it you know that it's very hard to explain that is not it's not because something happened before you know but but what I would


but ya so so we can say that yes there has not been enough theories out there to explain why some people do certain things you know sometimes you talk about how we can go down the path of you know why people choose to commit suicide sometimes it's not depression it's not any particular factor people just feel depressed or feel sad or just


you know want to take that that chance


ya so uh so coming back to your first point about in the the court case right I would I would actually argue that I would rather have an AI to defend to to make the decision of whether somebody's guilty or not


and I'll tell you why no because when when when you introduce humans like you pointed out there is an emotional component there is there are biases that come from experiences


that's right, have you have you seen that film twelve angry men, you know you know so that's the that's the situation of a court case being decided by twelve jury members and, uh over time you know people have talked about how you know if you have people uh deciding the fate of a person


there are biases and and at that film rightly shows you know how does the the guy who you know he's just uh uh uh carrying the the the anger he has for his son you know uh but, but the point is that if you look at the end of the film statistically he was guilty because even though each evidence on itself cannot be proven that you know uh that person was there uh to to commit the crime but when you have you put all the evidences together for all of them to happen


statistically it's very improbable, right so my point is, so the yes that's right so it's about how you code the AI right so the AI can only do what you tell it to uh it's only the code the AI can only do what you program it to do so the more code you give it


more uh uh, uh scenario you describe the more the better it is to uh able to make a decision so what I'm saying is that you know if you introduce an AI (ppc) in the court you know uh, it's still limited by the amount of evidences that's that's uh that's that's that's made present to it you know so if you only have very limited evidence then ya sure you cannot make a lot of decisions you can even make wrong decisions because you know there's not enough evidence to make uh uh a good decision you know if there's a


so what I'm saying is that there are purposes where AI can be really good for and there are things that you know it's a bit harder to defend the use of AI you can't it's it's hard to say


you know I mean there are films made made around about how uh if you not sure if seen the film her but you know you having having a relationship with with an AI you know people have gone as far to that and then if you watch the film you will suddenly realize hang on I might actually support him I think it's okay to have an AI girlfriend


but what if you don't know what if what if I am an AI, and you would assume, and you would


it it just leads to a better world I guess


yes yes yes


uh well what if, okay so so imagine imagine there is an AI, uh that is fully able to replicate a person so uh this this AI looks just like a person and the AI behaves you know is able to emote or at least you think it can emote


and you you start to like this person romantically and you get involved romantically and you say okay I want to settle down with this person I want to have a baby and then the moment when when uh when you say you want to have a baby the AI says actually I'm just a substitute the real person is uh it's it's just behind


and so the person what so so what the person has been doing is just using a substitute to make sure that to make sure that, that some that so to replicate that person in the in the artificial intelligence and say that okay you go and find out uh if if uh if if that guy is good for me and after you find out you come back to me and and and uh if if everything is great I will go and meet the person so


convenience so you can you can save yourself the the the heartbreak of you know meeting somebody spending so much time resources into something that does not uh work out but that person a has their own AI I have my own AI they meet they have interactions as just how you two would meet and if it works out


if if if in in theory yes in if if you can program a person in theory it's possible to think about how I can, be replicated my my entire cognition my emotions everything can be replicated my experiences and I put it in this AI and I say go and meet uh AI that's that is meant for the other person


okay done, part one debate topic one


okay so err I will start right so the


first debate topic is uh to what extent has technology made our lives more fulfilling so err I am going to bring up my first point, and err, the first point that I have is uh I feel that technology err does err make our lives more fulfilling because


err first of all we need to we need to err measure what is the definition of fulfillment okay so fulfillment is basically being satisfied err and err basically being able to live a better life


uh and so in this aspect I feel that err technology has actually made our lives much much better err it has enabled us to bridge the gap in terms of err distance let's say for example when we talk about air travel in the olden days err


from if you want to go from one point to another point or if you want to go from you wanna travel from, one country to another country err the journey is usually by land err and the journey will take a very very long time so, err last time people err travel by horseback err the olden days err you know they traveled by camels err they they actually go through err they travels through a lot of land trying to


get to one point from one point to another point err typical journeys err just to go over from a a city to another city may take uh a week, err it may even take months err to reach a err much further spot err right now with the advent of technology I feel that it has made err lives err much much better err we can travel to the other ends of the earth


err you know within mere hours of each other, err from one end to from from one end of the world to another end of the, world we can probably do it in about twenty six hours to thirty four hours whereas uh previously err you know you will take you anywhere between the span of uh two weeks to even two months to actually reach your destination so err with that respect I feel that err technology has err made our lives err more


fulfilling err more satisfying we're able to travel more see more of the world err and we are also able to cover more ground, in a lesser possible time so we don't we don't spend our time err travelling as much as uh the the the people in the olden days do


yup okay


(hmm)


yup err with regards to your point err that that is a valid concern I think that is a valid concern whereby, people are actually using technology to err invade our privacy err to basically err you know


learn about us in what we are doing in real time and and and and and things like that there there has to be a form of, err way for people to be able to either opt in or opt out from, err this technology whereby err you know governments or even whoever that that that err that is using things like facial recognition and all that err they should of course have a a non disclosure agreement with err the person involved that the the err the information and the data that they collect are just


purely for you know pure purely for for err for the the the the, organisation's use and they're not going to share it with any other external parties and stuff like that


(mmhmm) yup yup


right I I think with regards to that point that you brought up about you know people you know err being in solitude and err I mean basically being anti-social in a sense right err whereby they actually stay at home err don't go out and mix around, I I feel that with with the advent of technology the the way that people socialise err basically has evolved


err last time in the olden days where our parents used to socialise by you know going outside playing with err each other's err you know err children you know going to the playground you know stuff like that nowadays err it has become more of err socialising online


err and and for me based on my experience as a gamer when I play games, err there is a actually socialising going on err but you are doing it uh without seeing the other person's face without err you know having the physical touch err you know you you are you are socialising but it's just in a in a virtual environment so in a in a virtual online err setting


err I mean which which, well I I guess


I guess in terms of ya in in terms of err you know, a face to face interaction if you if you are if you are referring to it that way err then then yes there is a there is a loss of such err skills skill sets right for you to actually interact with someone face to face err you know how you behave your body language and that kind of stuff


there there is a loss and I and I and I can agree to that but but the whole, point of socialising is not just in those aspects I mean you can still have a way to socialise uh even when you don't see each other you know people who are who are in long distance relationships err you know how they socialise is through the internet through err you know online phone calls video calls stuff like that


I mean of course you know people the the I mean humanity the way humans work is err we we actually need to have a form of err a a different form of err you know err socialisation like for example err we need to have face to


face you know we need to have a physical touch you know we need to have a form of err, err the way that we we speak to each other I mean it's, it's it's nicer, to to be talking to you in person rather than to talk to you over the phone or or over an online app or something like that


but err I mean sometimes with with with how things are running so fast and with with how you know caught up we are in our own lives and what we are doing, it could be a good thing in a sense that err you know technology still lets you to be be uh be able to keep in touch with each other err even though that you are busy with your work even though that you don't meet very often err you know things like that you you but you still


can catch up you still can err you know talk to each other online err I think the the the recent COVID-nineteen err situation where everybody had to be forced to work at home and err you know not be able to go out and meet each other and socialize and stuff like that I think that has kind of like


cemented the the whole err you know the whole point that even though we don't meet uh even though we can't meet uh it's err we are not allowed to meet, err , we we still can we still can keep in touch err you know in in in various ways lah so I think I think


err I mean it it's that that there are there are valid pros and cons you know with with with regards to that and I I feel that err, the whole the whole thing is err to each his own but for me, I I I feel that the other


the other way that technology has err has made our lives err more fulfilling is , we we are able to err find out a lot of things that are happening around the world err with a mere click of a mouse button, right we may not be physically in another country but yet we know that there are flash floods happening but yet we know that you know oh there's a there is a Tsunami or there's an earthquake or something bad is happening donald trump's younger brother just passed away and uh


we we we know that by by listening to the to the news, err you know not not not being physically there and yet we still know what is going on what is happening so I feel that , err in in some ways it has made our lives more fulfilling because it has made us


become more more aware of what is happening around the world without actually needing to travel there to experience what is going on and and we are more informed, ya


I I agree I mean you are talking about those people who actually hide behind the the virtual screens uh, couch potatoes ya , I mean it it all depends on how useful they want to make themselves


become so if you if you wanna make yourself useful right then uh contribute in a way to society and stuff, uh then there is there is actually a way for you to to do that lah but if you just wanna you know chillax and and and then that that's nothing wrong with with I think


you know uh being a couch potato you know if if you're if you are rich like like you know err what do you, call this elon musk and all those people right err mark zuckerberg and all that so they they probably can afford to be couch potatoes without even you know worrying about what's happening


but by leveraging ya exactly exactly but by leveraging on technology I feel that it's a very, good way to help you to be err to be more informed number one uh number two you are you are harnessing the use of technology err to actually err create staff create new things you know err we talk about all the digital influences now we talk about all the YouTube personalities we talk about err people who are


err able to harness the use of technology to actually have a I would to make to make a living lah basically, you know and and these people are earning millions and and and and millions of dollars because of the amount of followers that they have the amount of people that watch their shows and the amount of people that actually err you know uh support them and all that so err it has made their lives more fulfilling I feel


definitely ah ya okay, okay


right right, right right so so you talking about


I agree I mean okay okay so you are talking about how technology is bringing force uh you know more


powerful strains of viruses that you will not be able, to err to to to fight lah to counter lah , I I've always been of the of the opinion that err for for every err poison there is an antidote


and for every disease err there is a, cure it's all a matter of time it's it's it's a it's it's all a matter of, time I think err before we actually manage to find something that is uh that is able to to you know to to counter I mean of course you know err diseases for example like AIDS uh for example like err HIV and all this kind of stuff err we have yet to find the cure err after so long


but but but err, ya correct ya some different variants and all that mutated err you know viruses and all that but but I feel that I feel that I I think, we are we are we we are we are actually advancing along err quite well in terms of the strides that we that we have made eh for the example


of HIV you know they they they actually even though they haven't found a cure but I think they have found, err a a way for you to actually slow down err the virus err to the, point where it becomes err virtually err like


they they there you you that that there is no symptoms you know and then you can live your life of of course you need to take medication and all that but is is like you know you you you can prolong your your life span err versus somebody who has not no access to technology and you know


they just they just let the virus takes its course , ya


right they make an informed decision lah right okay okay , okay okay fair point fair point I I I feel that there is uh there is a lot of ways that technology can actually contribute uh and and I think we we can't deny the fact that uh in the you know ever since uh


we we have harnessed the use of technology there there's a lot of err benefits and there's a lot of advantages that we have err you know mankind has actually benefited we have, been able to send people to the moon we have been able to explore the cosmos the solar system


we we have learnt more about err how our world works err we have learnt more about our science and technology you know is uh is is you know intertwined together, yup


the powers higher powers yup yup, yup


it it all depends on what is the what is their intent err of using the technology are you using it for good or are you using it for for bad right so so it all depends on what what you want to do of course


everything good can become bad err guns can be used for self defense it can also be used to kill people uh so there's there's two ways to the there's two sides to the comment I feel uh it all depends on the intent and it also depends on what is your purpose of using this technology for what purpose you know uh what what what do you want to do what do you want to achieve in the end


and of course for every good it, ya


correct correct they they they they compete lah basically it's very competitive lah ya it's a very competitive field I agree I agree,


okay do I stop


done yup, part two debate topic two