around the void deck on the roads which you actually sees so you know what what what what is so environmentalist about singapore do they actually care for this animal before before they actually cut off all these trees to build new houses for us


do they actually think about oh probably I'm sure there are animals should we actually transport them to a newer area no but you know you see them wandering you see on social media, there there you have wild boars actually wandering under the void deck you see snakes all starts to come out and you know they starts to slither in like you know uh people's garden


so this kind of thing is actually uh you know you need somebody to actually stands up for all these animals because it's a, pity that you know at one point I actually see a wild boar got into an, accident in the middle of the road


I'm I feel sad, for the wild boar because he don't it is you don't deserve to die like that so I mean yeah so uh it is actually uh you need somebody to actually stands for all this animal rights before you bring bring down all their houses you should think of


re-homing them so that you know they are taken care of properly so you know, I I I don't think anybody actually, do that so it is kind of sad, to see someone I mean to see this animal actually wander around


uh aimlessly because they don't have a home the home that they used to to have has all been cut down and they have to move and they have to find their own uh resources on how to move along to to find their new home


, okay that is only for that part of the area but what about those new estates that they are building you know to you see a a pretty new estates new


uh, residential or neighborhoods where they they cut off all these trees and you know I don't, see any uh nature or or should I say like you know those link for the animal to cross a to a to cross the bridges but not in the new newly uh built estate you see


so err, I I I call that you know I I mean not to say but but you know it's a little bit you don't think about the living things that is living in there but you only think of building the


uh, uh uh uh home for, singaporeans but what about the animal you talked about singapore being a a what do you call that garden city yes we are a garden city but, uh we forget about the animal that used to live in that forest so when you cut off all the trees


they have nowhere to go so sometime they they they they got hit by a car and they died and yeah


, okay so but, you know uh you you you need it takes it it it takes it you need someone who actually


who who really cares, a lot about this environmental issue so they need to actually voice out a a lot of issue because it it takes two to clap and two to tango so I'm sure


it takes a lot of effort for this individual to actually you know voice out their concern, because if you are not proactive and you know uh nobody give nobody cares about all these environmental issues so it does actually uh to have someone who's actually stands for uh stands up for their rights and who actually very persistent on


what, they believe in, that really helps because because, people may not see it now but when once they are gone then you will notice that oh this person is actually, uh do actually uh help uh back then they this individual uh you know uh actually stands for their for the rights of the environment for the animal for the land for the for the air


so nobody sees until the person is gone so don't you think it's a little bit too late that you know uh, such a individual who actually spends most of their time, uh, you know uh experimenting or you know giving their their entire life to the environment helping to save the earth uh


uh, such because once they are gone nobody will take over their their their you know their their jobs or you know to take over whatever that the person is doing so unless you have someone who is who is really who shares the same passion so that's that's that's that's actually you know I don't think


people you know uh we have someone who as good as this particular individual who cares a lot for the environment


okay


part one debate topic one


okay uh well, I'm going to disagree because you say okay the topic says what , environmental conservation efforts today are nothing more than token gestures gestures gestures means a movement a part of body like like like like to express an idea so you if you see it a token gesture it's like just saying like it's just giving an idea but uh


uh these are not just ideas like you said earlier it's uh you know to protect the the future generations well, uh how how how how, do you mean to say it's just a gesture like just as just a sign did you say is to protect the I mean protect our future generation it's not just a sign of like like gestures are saying thank you like that you know it's not


it's supposed to protect we are supposed to protect, like educate is the key for young people nowadays education uh you know uh uh to preserve to manage to restore the natural environments the ecological e-communities so that uh it's not only to care it it is also to like


persists to maintain you know to maintain diversity, uh to maintain diversity of species the ecosystem the function so it's not just a gesture like, a a a gesture a token gesture it's not it's not just like uh okay it's a sign yes thank you uh that you know at this uh environmental uh conservation efforts are done no it's not just a gesture of thank you you know


for me lah ah so like , like I said earlier it's it's a it's an act not just a gesture to say uh not a just a gesture like I said token thank you it's also an act and maintaining


you know uh, yeah


understand that but when you say that as a give and take for for this is more for a, big businesses they don't really care about the environment you know they will just they will just it's just pocketing into their I mean it it's the more money you know they put in their pocket for their big businesses like ya introducing more products so it's not really caring about the nature or being you know more uh


uh, uh and like like like eh uh above environment uh, conservation so it's not really a healthy way you know to to educate people like I expecting something from the from the business and then the business then make more money lah because people are buying their product because they want to get something in return even though it's not it's not caring for the environment already what


it's not protecting also, so it's quite irresponsible lah it's an irresponsible practice of businesses and corporations ah so how to secure a better future like that, uh


(mmhmm) , , but that is quite unsustainable right it's like the consumption of like natural resources, resulting in the earth's biodiversity so it's like not very sustainable so it's not just like


it's not preserving very well it's not it's not protecting so it's that's why it's like nothing more than, like, it's not just a token of gesture ah


, then it's not really voluntary efforts already it's not and it and it it's like, how you say it's like uh


not very uh it's the mindset the mindset will be like uh you know I am expecting something in return instead of an act that uh you you know it's a must to do without thinking you know, so


yeah, but it's not just


uh it's it's no longer an a voluntary effort already lah for them to practice like effective like saving resources and energy like that it's, like a apa like a like a like a, like it's not an essential essential uh something essential for the individual you know it's like not closely to your heart that oh yeah this is a must so it's just uh it's just like oh it's just an act that's all


then they believe in conservation like expecting a a a a certificate out of it you know that !hey! I've done this


ya but, if they really believe in conservation then it should not just be like uh you just be like uh in exchange of something right it should be like something that you protect that you believe in so that you know you can't be healthy when you're living in an unhealthy environment ah so it's something that they must believe in and instill in their


mind in their you know in their mind their heart their you know their life, so that in a what's that that uh, conservation is that like I said earlier it's a protection preservation restoration so if they don't if they if they just take it as a it's just a it's just a


a a a a mindset that you know it's just a token of gesture ah then it's really they are not they do they're not protecting it like okay it's just for this time around only so in future if there's nothing then they won't protect at the earth anymore is that what you saying


yes it is uh but you know the key the key is educating them so educating them so they do not just expect a token of gesture, so educating them change their mindset that you know it comes with them it's like uh if it's for example like if you if if you if you educate


them help them help people to understand what they should do when they encounter for example, uh for example uh a a a a wild animal what should they do, so it it should be like instilled in you, not just uh not just like uh how do I say it's not that's it's just like


not just like you need to instill in you you know what I'm saying yeah, !huh!, yeah


(mmhmm)


, but will it comply to the, and uh and, regulation policies, you know uh all these, uh uh, uh was that a a a agreements


ah


, okay so , okay yes , ya but this will will this uh,


but it's that is just one country there's many countries, that are like they're that are there are many many countries that are they are not the same as Amsterdam which is very which which is much more developed like like uh uh uh you know countries in the africa they're they're they're they're not an they are not able to follow where you know people will just take


bicycle to work, yeah they travel so far they can't just cycle so it, it's not it's not it's not a it's not realistic for some countries, so like I said earlier it's mainly it it it is nothing more than it's not just more than a token of gesture it's an act you know you can't like I said you cannot be healthy and in an an unhealthy environment


so you need to act out not just take it as you know it's just a token you need to act out to protect the nature prevent extinction secure a better future, (mmhmm),


, (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


, okay well turning off the light is also an act of conservation but do you get anything you still have to pay your bill right, ah


part two debate topic two, okay you start lah


okay I disagree firstly they're already so, poor shouldn't they think of the uh shouldn't that their government think of their country's survival first their economy the people education so with


they should they should not they should not, , you should not address uh environmental issue when their when their country's survival is not stable yet so this will just cause more problem so instead they should


uh, instead they should focus on education with education then the people can alleviate the the the country's standing with education, they are able to seek better on how to save the country how to save the earth then they can think you know on the broaders uh broader spectrum


so they need they they they shouldn't address this environmental issue first because they should address the country's survival first the people their economy and uh and environmental uh problems will just add misery to the poor people


so it's just going to cause more suffering then you know with this environmental damage it's just going to like you know make them suffer more uh, like usually these people they they they they they since the most of the time is because not enough education it's their mindset that you know you know the you know their ancestors have been doing this


for so long this is how they do it, so uh for example take uh you know when we have haze that was like what happened to that they just burned the land so, they don't focus on the people's needs rather you know rather than just thinking about the environmental issues think of the people's needs first why are they doing this they need to be educated they need to uh they need to uh form a a the mindset to the people first educate them


so that you know from there they can, uh, they can uh assure of the country's survival think of the people the education the children the future, K,


, okay as you mentioned earlier about haze that in order to keep the soil fertile


but that is a process which is uh irresponsible because it's affecting not just their their their their homeland it's also a a a process that affects other countries, the regional countries around them so ya it is really selfish if it's not if they're not being you know it's not just a fertile land


to to to to to to plant their crops so in any way, , well you will say that education that that they are not able to reach well more more efforts more rigorous efforts should be undertaken by governments of all countries that they need to uh eradicate poverty and in turn save the deprived people lah from the implications of this environmental uh damage


so they need to eradicate, and then they should be more collaborative in partnerships with all society among all the section or department that uh you know people living in in poverty are linked to the world so that they're they they can participate


you know in a economical in environmental uh regeneration so ya more efforts has to be taken by the government, and uh we should believe that there cannot be any, environmental solution if you don't elevate your the the poverty from the world so yeah they should not just address environmental issue they should address more on their people and the uh their economy


me alleviating uh the poverty you know in the country so these conditions which uh countries the government the ya the governments of the poorer country they should be active they should be active lah


to alleviate the people and not just address environmental issue just because you know the whole world is talking about environmental issue so they should address the needs uh of their basic people first okay since it's not being met they shouldn't talk about environmental issues they should talk about their people and then uh


wait, ha poorer countries , so if you tell me uh you know like, like they're selling all the uh all their collections from you know to put it put money ya these are just like you know for the big companies or corporations that are buying over these are just profits for them so it's not really addressing environmental issues so they just you know getting profits


so first and foremost they need to end poverty first, , not environmental issues,


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), (mmhmm), , okay


, there can be reasons that are, contributing to poverty that you know that that that that, countries should address first before they address environmental issue like that basic needs earlier so like I said earlier lack of education improper implementation


uh, of policies and then more than not you if you don't educate them the lack of sufficient resources improper knowledge to the poor to the poverty-stricken people they tend to overuse every resources they have like I said earlier


they they tend to overuse every resources available to them when their survival is at stake so we tend to forget that these people the poorer people are the most undefended ones when it comes to the effects of environmental pollution so


it's a stressful uh it's it it it is stressful for poverty among people so when you talk about environment to them because environmental problems do cause severe suffering to the poor, but, that's why countries need to to to to to to to lower the gap and not broaden the gap you know between the rich and the poor uh because everybody use water uh consume water food natural resources to remain alive so


they should rather than rather than focus on uh focus on the environmental they should focus on their on the people mindset you know these are the basic needs of people, uh that you know it's going to affect them and uh if they are environmental


ah no, okay so poor people they tend to rely more directly, more directly on the environment rather than the rich people for their survival so their risk they are the ones who are more serious at the receiving end of environmental problems so first first and foremost I said education


they they have to have sufficient knowledge and about agricultural practices which can lead to a decline in crops productivity yeah


uh that will uh actually uh, prevent people you know from having the from from having good and hygienic living standards right,


part three debate topic three


okay uh I disagree that the real heroes are environmentalism uh rebels they are not uh a rebel is someone who like rises in opposition and armed resistance against


establish uh government or leader they are resisting control so those people who who wants to uh who are you know like, uh they they they are they are caring for the environmental you don't call a aren't they supposed to be aren't they are environmentalists they are people who are concerned with the protection of the environment with people who are if a person is a is concerned


with the environment on the protection of the environment do you call them a a a a a a a rebels you don't call them rebels instead they are like I mean, you should refer to them as you know like a tree hugger greenies you know cause they care for the earth uh you don't call them rebels because they want to see change just because they want to see change you don't call them like you know a rebel they just want to uh to the like you say they want they want attention they want


a a a, a environmentalism is like a, a a, a a social movement and ideology to uh on the welfare of the environment so because they because of social movement we don't call the the people we don't call the people the real heroes are are are rebels instead we call them like you said greenie you know tree hugger


(mmhmm)


okay if , if you learn as much as like you can about problems and the solutions and take personal actions that make uh sense and joining the movement for like political change at uh and I mean like or in opposition to the worst polluters


you call yourself environmentalist but not a rebel you know like a a a like a like I said earlier a a environmentalist is a person who's concerned with the protection of the environment so they're not rebels like for example


#leonardo dicaprio# is he a rebel ya he advocates about you know saving the earth being a environmentalists he he cares a about the problems and solutions that people uh that that that that that movement made on uh on environment but we don't call him a rebel right for example


uh even Greta the uh the the the famous girl uh from sweden Greta #greta thunberg#, she is an environmental activist but we don't call her a rebel I mean she doesn't yes she wants to be heard but she's not a rebel she is this she is uh she is


she is a she's not a rebel she is an activist who's speaking her mind to save the earth so and yes she want uh she she is not a rebel so she just wants to be heard, and uh uh uh and and uh just


concerned about you know her future so (mmhmm), ,


okay understand uh but would we call singapore, for a rebel because singapore is also doing something for the environment but we are not rebels you see we we we we play a large role in environmental leadership in the region like for example cooperating with the enforced uh environmental laws improve air quality


uh, protect drinking water reduce exports exposure to toxic chemicals but we are not rebels you know you are not dictating that you know uh everybody has to save the earth so singapore you don't call singapore a rebel


, , ya but that's that is the thing we don't call singapore you know rebels ya even though we take down their homes you know we cut we we clear lands to build homes but we are not rebels ya but and on top of that singapore


do uh they do they do, have , for example they do they did build the eco-link at B K E that is you know to connect the nature reserve for animals to cross over so uh we do, care about the environment still you know ah


okay but we are still not rebels because environmentalism is just a social movement, it's an ideology uh to focus on the welfare of the environment we just seeking to protect and can conserve the elements of the earth ecosystem like I say uh water air land animal plants the entire habitats such as rainforest you know in the world lah uh deserts


uh and oceans so like I say environmentalist is a person who is concerned and uh care for the protection of the environment they are not rebels they they they they oppose to to they're opposed to world's polluters and, they take a a the the personal actions that makes sense for them so they are not rebels


back to singapore like I say singapore I mean, in a note, we are still not rebel because singapore is like like like, , like a throwaway station so when people uh these people these the uh the the environmentalists


they are not rebel because they want to see changes what business could make, what business could make to help change this but this like I said it is a a social movement it's just an ideology on the welfare of the of the environment it's uh you don't have to be a rebel to to to to have a social uh to to to to believe in something


ya you just want to protect you are seeking you are seeking uh to protect and conserve elements of the ecosystem yeah and uh, they yeah they like I say is, a a a a rebel is a person who resists authority but you know environmentalists they like I say they are they just want to to be they want to be uh they're just concern and they need act they want action to be taken to protect the environment so they are not rebels they are just people who are concern


about the about the country about the earth, okay


okay okay very complicated okay I


okay you do a lot homework okay so my my position is sex work should not be legal right, okay oh okay err, should not be the legal actually in singapore is legal ya but I think it should not be legal err


prostitution and human traffic are is actually a form of uh gender based violence, so it should not be legal, uh because by legalising it it does not equate to you know uh, minimising or reducing uh prostitution


, ya so legalising or discriminating prostitution has not decreased the prevalence of, illegal prostitution there's still uh a lot of illegal prostitution because they could not meet the the high bar standards standard by the government


and legalising or discrimination or or decriminalisation has not reduce the stigma faced by the prostitutes prostitute people legalisation or decriminalisation increases human traffic


and uh it promotes organised crimes, therefore sex work should not be legal, yeah,


oh I think is me sorry


okay eh oh my one stop running eh, my one stopped running, (hmm)


ah no no my uh six twenty nine zero nine is not running, ten minutes, my notification come in ah I don't know leh oh oh my facebook


turn off notification, uh okay okay


at top recorder where where do I see nineteen minutes


oh yup yup yes, okay


yeah yeah


actually I kind uh agree but I'm a a physician ah , oh okay let me see ya so I, ya so it should not be legal awesome okay


uh and why it should not be legal because uh again I mention it promotes organised crime so when when is it when is legal right then more people will think eh is okay to go into the business then when they go into the business they are exposed to other forms of


crimes so that kind of like catalyze the the whole process so if is illegal in the first place right people wouldn't want to even enter, ah unless those very they really have no choice they have to do it meaning they have to do it illegally they also can find other ways of you know illegal stuff they they can also be uh burglaries or or or or all the rest of


the stuff but to open up another can of worm uh, kind of promotes uh what we what we call the organized crimes and uh and, because it is legalised people who come in legally to do the legal uh sex business


uh they it also increases uh human trafficking so like uh, be the minimum age is eighteen years old but, they want to make maybe be they they they lie you know they say they are they are below they are actually below eighteen years old and then they they


they just come in and increases uh human trafficking actually that's it that's the same for ah maids as well ya so they they, under declare their age so that that increases if if it has not been legal in the first place they wouldn't have organized such a thing and if they they didn't organise such a thing right then they they also wouldn't


ah ya, then they wouldn't have started anyway, ya that's my point


conclusion ,


uh


ya I agree with you , okay ya lah I don't know, okay uh okay it's like it's like (uh huh)


why why it increase organised crimes because when it's not they it's not them in the, first place then then there's nothing to talk about you just you just every everything that happened you just illegal mah then but if if you started it right you have to manage it


how to say ah is like banding chewing gum you know they've banned the whole thing then they no need to worry about it then you if you start if you start oh like the what they call it the PMD, yeah the ah ah ah that one that one so they banned then they no need to worry about is what if they if they started it oh then they don't know how to then you control and then it it also takes a lot of effort and uh government resource to to organize this I mean eh ya lor


how how it promotes organise crimes and and because because, when people get word if it's legal you know they the girls are encouraged to come here and they started to get in contact with this kind of thing, then they would get exposed to other forms of business like drugs


ah you know they will become criminals and all that because of the exposure to these, ya it it can it can be a starting point to a lot of other crimes, ya because the most of the girls are young young mah and innocent mah ya


ya uh


actually no if if it's not if it's not legal you still know who these people are uh and and you will be have a greater is a absolute no mah you cannot do these mah so is easier


okay so uh my my point is charity work should not be made compulsory, so all the are rough points that you said right is is only, it only happens when the person uh volunteers and do charity work out of from the heart so uh because like I remember when we were students right then we were given uh cards


uh then actually to it the when you make it compulsory or people, uh like me who don't want to do charity work ah we it feel it is a burden and uh extra criteria in order to because some they always linked the charity work


with something so uh I can state my own personal experience right can right ya okay, ah okay so so I I'm with a organisation whereby in order to there's this uh a long service award five years ten years fifteen years in order to get that long service award


right you have to work uh work compulsory donate to some charity organisation so uh, so there so there's money involved lah and and uh that's the, the organisation that I I don't agree to to give money to so


uh, ya so so the the the the purpose of making compulsory uh charity work is you know they they want people to give back but it has to come from the heart oh you you know if you make it mandatory or compulsory or


it it is more like a burden to me uh and and people just give money their their objection their objective are different they, people my colleagues give money in order to qualify for the five years ten years fifteen years


uh long service award but they how many people actually visited uh the people who they donate the money to and uh not only that I remember uh as a child when we have the charity cards right uh and then they they make is


compulsory actually is fund fundraising for the school to renovate leh it's not even, I don't think is a is a is a good cause ah having is to so that the school has more money to renovate then uh our parents have to go around I mean at least my my father went around to ask people to donate


each ya lor ya it is a extra burden for him lah, and and uh make it compulsory those people who don't want to don't want to uh donate they will they will do it for the wrong purpose and you don't achieve what you aim for ya so that's why I think charity should not be made compulsory


okay so so uh the you you stated a lot of uh good points about uh, doing charity work uh however this good points can also be found when you do simply networking when you go to let's say you go to


uh, eh what you call that ah the, business meeting you you go networking session and and because networking you even have uh it meets it meets your objective but uh if you make charity work compulsory right is is against uh


some peoples will so uh like I mentioned previously I remember charity work being compulsory back in school uh, actually for the for the purpose of fund raising and building upgrading the school so is an extra burden to my father uh who will you know go around to ask for money uh and


also set I think unhealthy competition like who raised more money in the class, and uh and also when I grow up uh the when, we we were given the five ten fifteen years long service award and what take with it is you have to compulsory you have to donate to charity so uh so actually I didn't go up I


I'm with the organisation for seven years but I didn't take up the charity work because they make it compulsory so I feel that uh this award is simply because I let say I have a good record in the company for seven years they should give me this award but they make me to donate to charity


then I don't think it is as is of is like enforcing their belief on me so I, ya so I so I don't agree so uh I think charity work should be encouraged it should not be made compulsory


so even if you I I'm not a very charitable person so even if you make me you make it compulsory I'll do it unwillingly you don't achieve your objectives of uh you know giving good to the society all that , and and I think that defeat your purpose and that wasted my time so it is is actually a extra burden


and and uh and also mental health burden I remember you know we were all we were all inside the room all the people who are qualified right then uh, then after that they they brief you know then they just touch on the topic of uh this compulsory charity uh donation that you have to do


then uh then at the end, everyone just line up to get the forms and I walk out of the room then then then after that they they they like oh why why why you didn't take the form then it also uh if if you are not thick skinned enough ah you will just join the line


and that ya lor, so so that that is against my my belief eh you want to encourage like the like our CPF or you you if you donate something to don't know where then you can get some CPF reduction or something, ah then that one okay encourage okay but if you make compulsory then no lah it has it side sides effects


ya , eight minutes only twenty minutes eight oh yes twenty two minutes more, ,


so so actually come to think of it where is as you as you mentioned right charity work to be made compulsory moulded, it's like uh it's like given convenience to the to the law makers like uh when is compulsory then they have a lot of resources


and all that like ya lor so, actually the the the the better thing is to encourage and to increase the exposure on, how you can you can donate to charity like the the blood donation ah uh then they they give advertisement you know then people come and do blood donation


advertisement instead of let's say can you imagine blood donation is compulsory then ,


budget ya that's that's a good point than to give them option to which one to do but what if someone don't want to do at all right , I remember my my ya my my my late mum, don't want to do leh if you make people like her compulsory oh ya I and I remind uh you remember every saturday oh all the secondary school people will take the


tin uh ask for money, actually from what what what's that it that one is compulsory for them right for uh ya on saturday they have to go around and I remember as a student doing that oh, what I was what I know is oh we gather at the shopping centre then they say okay this time one hour two hour later I come back so I just I just go around asking for money then my my inside my mind ah is like okay eleven O'clock


I go back to the air-con room now very hot I tried to find a shelter place I talked to my friends then I let the time pass, is is compulsory but am I doing charitable work no I'm just meeting the objection, then uh then after that I, uh sometimes !aiya! very #pai seh# and I I scared rejection and all that then I I bring the tin back and then so what's the what's the aim of making charity uh compulsory you want to expose me to all this but they didn't achieved the aim ah I I I didn't feel I just feel I waste my time


and you know saturday I could have done I could have slept longer you know in the morning as a student ya so is it is not a good experience for me [loh] yeah


actually that that that one


death penalty should be abolished


my door is closed leh my door is closed


ah okay okay sorry ya what should I do I, uh


should be okay already ah should be okay


been taken ya


okay so uh actually very good points ah uh, , my my personal belief is is ya is your is the same as yours but anyway my topic today is uh death


penalty should not be abolished so singapore takes on the stand that, you know uh death penalty, uh should not be abolished we have that penalty in singapore and do we also have uh one of the fewer crimes in the world and uh is is uh the


seen throughout the whole of singapore lah so I I because we are in singapore so I only talk about singapore lah and so I don't talk about america, so uh when when uh actually one of the thing is uh one life one life pay for another life what do you call that ah uh ya


so if if somebody yeah so if you if you kill somebody is only, fair that the state will kill you [loh] ya then is also so and also those uh murderers who are psycho one ah they'll if you bring them


out to the society again you don't know whether they will they will you know it actually prevents further murders in singapore, then uh and and also if you are to life imprisonment oh, some people rather die ah like


you know they spend so many years and then you need uh uh you need to feed them for the rest of your life using the state money and the and the police officers need to take care of them make sure they don't run away for the rest of their life as long as they live, so that's even worse you know we we only look at death penalty okay in singapore death penalty is for if you kill somebody or if you for


drug purpose ah so uh I I'm not sure how how uh, you know the the because you said that uh having death penalty, will not deter them from committing the crimes and uh and some people are just ignorant they don't know if they know they wouldn't have uh done it that's that's true that's true ah but


but, you know uh what in in singapore we it it is all advertise ah in the in the airport and all that you know if you carry and even on the planes right uh if you carry drugs you will get hang and things like that and it's all on the newspaper all over the world and a lot of human rights


are are looking at the singapore way of doing this but we still do it, so why uh firstly is is cheaper and and is a way to to tell them don't do it I think, that is one of the reasons why our crime rates are


are the lowest in the world, so we've got to be tough on the crimes [loh], and yeah that's all eight minutes, , ,


no like like somebody oh no especially when when the overseas person a foreigner come here do drugs ah that is advertised all over the newspaper eh


to gain more money ya ya


err what did I mentioned ah, (ugh) I also cannot remember, that one is one is uh it mean one in uh one death and then


a second chance okay


actually uh from from what I understand oh those people who are mentally ill (ugh) when when somebody kill somebody oh the first thing they check is whether they are mentally sound so if they are not mentally sound they they will not get a death penalty leh they will go to IMH and stay there


so I I I I have not heard of anyone with a, mental issue and get a death penalty for killing (ugh) not that I know of lah then okay your first point (oo) uh okay there are other issues of course you know social issues you know family issues


uh that I I agree you should also take that into big consideration when you want to (ugh) organise you want when you want to set the society at peace right so , uh but the so death penalty is like the final weapon that we still need to have to to we


yes we need to have all the uh social social thing the family thing uh, you know we have all the RC community center and all the social welfare altogether plus death penalty, will will make the system more complete ya then uh and and and more


importantly lah the to can you imagine oh you know like in china right in china anything also corruption also death penalty because there are so many people, mah then then a death penalty is the, easiest way out the cheapest method no need to feed so many criminals so singapore uh smaller so they tried to do it in a more humane way they they will analyse first they won't like oh corruption death penalty whatever death penalty so they have a certain guideline


uh but they still want to be strict so that's why I think we are effective lah uh ya lor but I would


in china corruption


ya, (uh huh) (uh huh)


ya correct but uh I think, ya lah I mean in a laws can be turned around there are there are cases like that but very few lah and and and for


for the death penalty to happen (oo) it doesn't actually I I think there's a few years before it happens, got three four years enough time for you to at back and to to you know uh, (ugh) give your evidence if you have any ya so


then what ah ya lor ya lor


then is you are at a disadvantage yeah actually that's is


and uh criminalisation also constantly kind of undermine the sex workers' ability to seek justice proper, to seek justice for crimes against the for example like sex workers in south africa then said they did not report like


harmed uh robbery or rape to a police because they are being afraid of being they're are afraid of being arrested because their work is illegal, and uh they also have some experiences of you know uh which okay


they also have some bad experiences you know with police when they are being uh harassed or profile or laughed or or uh laughed at or not taken seriously, actually yup


, yup


, yes


okay actually ah I mean just one one thing to point of I think human trafficking or sex exploitation of may be, children or I mean they are separate issues I mean the they're both are very serious like human right uh abuses and crimes and should but no actually clearly distinguish between sex work and crimes like a uh human trafficking or sex exploitation and that it that is one


another important thing is uh if without making sex work legalised you know uh there will might be a increase rates of greater amount of uh uh sex workers you know who are engaged in


those like, uh, unsafe or uh uh uh uh sex activities I mean at least with the legalisation you know, we can at least reduce you know uh the raise of or reduce you know the chances of you know having greater amount of like sex workers being


being put into a such such a situation are forced you know in doing that and also, uh I think , normally those people who engage in volunteering sex work may come from like the backgrounds of poverty or marginalization and faced discrimination equality


including the access to the job market so then uh, I mean legalising like sex work actually provides you know almost the uh opportunity for them uh what happen just now


sound crack technical, oh, okay, ya


ya but my mine is continuing


my laptop eh is still is still running for nineteen nineteen minutes


(ppc), (ppc) oh yet yes I mean I I continue is that okay so


, so so basically uh in in summary I think uh firstly is uh legalising sex work will help on protecting uh the sex workers uh human rights onto large large extent so so when they are being (ppc)


err, kind of I mean when they face any like uh you know injustice situation with them then they will uh you know to uh they will be, able to have right access to the legal system and secondly uh I mean given that actually a lot of them might very uh poor family background and in legalising sex work actually does give them alternative


to work and to have uh access you know uh, to a job job market you know which can help them sustain you know their living as you know their families living, and uh, and I think that's all ya that's all from my side


okay I think on the point uh I appoint about uh I mean if is legalise then uh you know uh they'll be able to uh I mean there'll be increase amount of organised crimes


uh how do you how do you draw, you know such a, you know how do you draw a such your conclusion why why would that include increased like organised crimes that that is as my first question and secondly


ah actually I think when is legalise you know you you I mean ya you also you mention about the point uh uh the fact that you know uh some people whom might want to you know have uh who might want to become a sex worker but they are under age then they might you know declare you know the age


you know uh you know of uh fake age in order to get into the industry but I think when is, illegalised uh then they might more of them might be doing that because there's no control or there's no monitoring from the government so more people might be doing like


uh in a more under age you know uh women or men or might be involved in sex work, but then uh if is legalised uh I I'm sure government you know ah you know eh also are able to uh implement you know uh the relevant measures and controls to make sure you know people


who are you know have what being admitted into industry are being uh substantially sprain uh you know to understand their background their age or, or or you know uh, the when demo graphs uh graphics then was what what not you know at the same time


continue to monitor you know uh what they do on daily basis you know so then uh probably will reduce the amount of like I don't know organised crime that you mention about actually I don't I don't uh about maybe you can answer you can


help me understand why would that increase the organised crime but but but but my my view is more around like if you know is legalise you know firstly uh you know, uh big big uh you know government can do more background screening uh then on the continuous basis they are they can implement more measures and controls


to make sure things are going the right way but is not legalised, that will not stop people from, trying to become sex workers if there is a need because of the family situation or what other life situation they're facing then actually that will increased the you know the opportunity of you know the things that you are worry about firstly you know uh under age uh


uh uh you know women or men you know getting engaged into sex work or human trafficking even because is there's no there won't be, any monitoring or, organise monitoring by the government that way because you know they can just


uh you know uh, do things you know , illegally know ya, , ,


and also why why it why it will increase organised crimes, what kind of organised crimes ya


uh


oh okay (uh huh)


, no but actually when is not when is not legalise okay so when when is, not legal I mean I think there's a greater risk of such things happening because uh it mean


uh because actually you don't know who these people are and, and but it when is legalise and you know maybe everyone every sex worker has to be I mean I'm sure government would do like or has to be registered with the government so there I mean there's uh almost a greater


I mean the government is able to uh you know exercise a greater control under because they had to go through this uh, proper channel of being you know firstly come and or uh being approved of coming here and proper way of being background screened and they probably will be subjected to periodic monitoring


or or checks on their behaviors but when when is in in in (ugh) so so therefore preventing you know them from being engaged in any other like criminal activities or not but actually when is illegalised, I mean is even harder for government to spot who these people are because actually it would when you make sex work not not a legalised right I don't I I think we both can agree that that would not reduce the amount of people who want to become a sex workers


alright so being equal right uh, I think you know when it's when you make it legal, then is also easier for government to control and implement the suppen- uh uh you know uh the appropriate measures to reduce the raise that you talked about earlier but when is not legal you don't even know who these people are then it's harder to control


, you have the you have the less oh so actually if it's legal right so they have to go through uh you know the uh proper channels to getting registered and all that right so he I mean uh the government will know you know who these people are where they are from how old they are


what kind of sex work they're in, been engaging maybe at the same time, the you know whether they have been doing like health check-up and when was the last health check-up but when is illegal all this information will not be known to the government you know the government wouldn't know what's the process background like you know you you you mean is not


so it's harder to control that's all I'm trying to say so like you know they might just or got go uh you know go somewhere you know kind of kind of like find some person you know like, you know engaged in sex work you know yes that's illegal the person can be arrested but you know you wouldn't know how many of such people are there and uh where they are what been doing are the are they


so I I think ya it mean is legalise right then uh one point I mean is like government can have uh, better control of the uh, of of it you know uh, ya so so basically


earlier I mentioned about three point I think firstly I think legalising sex work will firstly uh help uh protect the sex workers human rights in terms of you know removing the stigmatisation, of or you know


you know uh uh uh uh against, them then they are uh they will be more frey to be able to have access to the legal system when they are when when they are facing any , illegal activities against them and secondly it also provides uh opportunity or job opportunity to people who


really, need need need it because actually as we understand that you know uh, most of those people who I you know I I think if given a choice a lot of people probably wouldn't want to get engaged in sex work actually a lot of a lot of them actually they they don't have a choice they need to you know uh


they need to survive and therefore they chose to you know go down this path, I think uh legalising sex work will actually giving the I mean will give them you know , this opportunity and thirdly you know legalising sex work actually will enable the government to be able to uh you know


have a greater control of you know this industry and at same time I mean a time I mean at the same time they are able to timely implement uh any measures to uh to mitigate any raise or illegal activities on arising


from from you know


okay, charity work should be compulsory, uh


actually (ppc) I think that charity work should be made compulsory uh for students, not not not , so I think maybe we can , I think


I think charity work should be made compulsory for all students I think firstly because I think uh I think that uh research has shown that actually students who participate in community service learning actually tend to


do better in school, because community service is somewhat uh may seen mean for students uh giving them a chance to, kind of apply what they have learn in classroom to the real human needs actually err volunteering is also a great way for them to follow up on the


follow up on an supplement subjects they have covered in a classroom so actually basically to give them another a different aspect of learning or different learning experiences that they wouldn't be able to get


when they are just uh studying in school, and also I think those students who I mean normally people who or rather students who do community service work, (ppc), actually they can also learn that they had actually made a difference with what they do


actually then then this will help them understand their own competence and leading to a more like self leading to increase the amount of self confidence or can do attitude they can actually spread, to uh


their work or, academy pursues, and , also community service actually uh will help these uh help the students to be able to face challenges and tough problems or may to be able tackle tough problems uh more easily because when they work through you know


by working through them as a volunteer, I mean they do face, different types of situations or life situations, then that will help them to learn how to better solve problems or enjoying


or enjoying the satisfaction of, overcoming a hurdle and I think uh, volunteer work also you know help people help students to become more healthy over time because I think the research has shown that people who participated in who participate in voluntary work have a better physical or mental health


and then those who don't and ya I think volunteering work also actually will help them, uh, give that some networking opportunities, will will allow them to be able to uh meet new


people and work with new organisation and strengthen strengthen the ties to the community and it'll be also give them of sense of pride and responsibility, and


and also it will give them an opportunity to build up their soft skills when when they volunteer, I think that's all,


yes but I think not to mention on it name or whatsoever,


(ppc),


so I think uh ya charity work should be made mandatory uh especially for students because it helps them I mean for students who participate in charity service learning right they tend to do better at school because on is believe that charity service is some work on missing link


for students, it give uh it gives them a chance to apply what they are learnt in school, and to real human needs at the same time, is a great way to follow up on and supplements subjects they had been I mean that had been covered in classrooms


and students actually who go for charity work will experience an increase uh increased sense of self, uh self, (ppc) oh so sorry will actually will help them uh you know uh feel better about themselves and actually uh you can actually help them better understand their own competence leading to more confidence so


yeah, okay okay ah I okay ya (oo) uh okay ya I don't know what happened just now but anyway, so basically okay so basically uh you know for a students, uh who do community work can actually uh


actually they can if they can learn that they they can actually make a difference with what they do and this help them better understand their own competence and leading to a more leading to more self confidence and a can do attitude that can spread to their own work and or academic (ppc)


pursues, instil I mean community service actually will also help them to become better like a problem solving uh uh I mean a better problem solver because often doing community service


as face with challenges or tough problems to tackle and by working as a volunteer they learn how to better solve, problems uh enjoying the satisfaction of overcoming a hurdle and volunteer work will I mean like were mention uh earlier or rather you know previous recording has been I mean uh it will improve like I mean it has a health some health benefits because uh you know


you know the habit, could could make creating a lifelong you know habit of community service actually had help uh people become more healthy, because uh you know I mean the research which has shown that you know students who or uh individuals who participate in volunteering work actually had better physical and mental health than those who don't especially for those that people who are aged like sixty five


or older and also uh volunteering work actually help people to create a wealth of networking opportunities, and will allow them to build like new relationships uh with you know the community uh as they contribute and allow them to meet new people work with new organisations you know


uh eventually strengthening the ties to the community, and uh you know actually it give you know people a sense of responsibility and pride because , you know you are actually helping others and I think you know it also allowed people to build the build on the soft skills which might be eventually useful you know at workplace and because volunteering work


normally thing goes like you know uh improving right communication skills entrepreneur skills and whatnot which are all, quite , key and uh critical skills to uh to succeed in your life


I mean I work to succeed in work I work on and as or uh so what's in school that's all ,


the, ,


are you done , , okay oh I I I, think I think will firstly I just want to address your your your kind of like not so good experiences with charitable donation I think those experiences that you have mentioned I believe is


uh you know uh the I mean, I believe is because it was handled in the wrong way I think the first uh I think the first uh you know kind of incident you mention the back in school no everyone all the students were asked to kind of like uh uh to ask that family members or you know or the friends or you know relatives to


help them donate to the school's building building fund firstly I think you know that it's not really a charitable work right because , because the school the school is not


but actually I I mean to to that to extend I I think they uh they shouldn't the I mean, they they shouldn't uh you know force students to do so I mean in in in in in in in in a way because like you say use to shouldn't I mean uh students are not


earning money or you know they I mean, the money has come from the parents or the relatives or whatnot right so I think you know check I mean I mean they could make the student I mean help the student to do charitable work in other ways


you know to I don't know ah maybe go out to , I don't know lah I think in university actually we were asked to go out you know to teach , younger students how they should uh you know uh how they can go uh how they how they can write their resume how they how they interview I mean it is a charitable


work right uh at the same time I mean it benefits both parties I think personally I also enjoying the session because it helped me reinforce my you know uh kind of resume writing skills, uh uh also interviewing skills at the same time you know help other people I think you know I think for charitable or actually I think in terms of I mean I'm not saying


I mean firstly I don't think everything is qualified as charitable work or charity work I mean I think the school the school ones are are asking for donation I will not I think uh they, I mean that that that is not consider as charitable and they made made made made it mandatory that's not really right I do agree with that but I think charitable charity work right I think your second I I think


your second uh incident I mean your second encounter was when when you when at work and then you're asked to you know you are you were forced to donate to a certain organisation then uh uh in order to got get certain promotion or award I think that is charitable work


uh, managed in the wrong way as a whole because uh you know they shouldn't make you, on I mean it they shouldn't be given you what optionally I mean like what I mention but you know I mean like what you have mentioned that you were not comfortable with the overall organisation actually you were forced to be donating to therefore actually you will not


you didn't enjoy the experience I think you know I mean like what I mentioned earlier different people have care about on you know different things you know in a life where some people care more about animals street animals some people care more about you know


other you know things maybe like human trafficking or like or maybe you know uh places that I have encountered like natural disasters that might so I think in terms of the option of uh I mean more option should be given to people right when you make like charitable work


mandatory so so so the you know so the person can feel I mean can resonate with the problem or what they are trying to help, more uh instead of being forced to do one or the other so I think I me I still do believe charitable work is to be made mandatory because


and nowaday we are living a society and they should be giving back to the society and but how it should be managed know right it it known that should be more flexibility and there should be uh uh you know


I mean it should I mean it should be it should be managed better rather than forcing people to do one way or the other,


no no (ugh) ya so I I think we are not saying that, uh I mean I actually I I think the ideal way is firstly uh we should make charity work pulsory but how you want to achieve that you know I mean everyone can be given like flexibility right so actually


uh some people I mean probably they prefer you know to to, blood donation because they they feel that oh, you know by donating blood actually it will help them you know there's some health benefits to the to the donor as well, or maybe I can you know then those people who are comfortable with it then they'll should then they will go for this option uh some people maybe I know some of my friends they really care about those like street like dogs cats and whatnot right then these people should be given


you know option to donate to those like uh you know those I don't I don't know how you call it like those the animal house that sort of thing ya ya and some people they care about you know uh maybe uh, me as mothers may be I I really care about you know all those uh uh


those like child you know who who are who are being abandoned by a parents you know or their own parents or being or may be abused by their own parents I'd really don't mind donating to them to help them with their life, you know so I think different I I'm sure everyone had care about one thing in this world and actually we I mean firstly we should make charitable work uh charity work compulsory but they should give people more options in terms of how they can contribute


back to the society maybe the that should be aligned with their own interests and you know uh uh what they really care you know about, yeah, correct


uh, when you do yeah


ya I I I think you I think you uh kind of like , mentioned a few times like you know if you are being forced to do charitable work you know it might not achieved the aim but (ppc) I think uh perhaps you are making an assumption here by saying that the aim of you know making charitable work compulsory is to make


to give the student or whover you know who are involve in charitable work a very positive experience about learning giving back to the society and whatnot right but I think ideally that should be the way but like what you said some students or some people


ah you know are more reluctant to do it because maybe, they don't like the charitable work they are being assigned to do or you know this is just something they don't believe in or whatnot right but actually if you if you can think about put it a the bigger picture actually the


the aim of you know making charitable charity work compulsory could also be transferring wealth from those people who actually can spare you know uh can maybe can you know uh who don't really need that much to those people who really need it


so if we can think the aim of you know making charitable work compulsory, is really transferring the wealth from you know or, you know helping the society as a whole to improve


I can't remember what's the economic term ah social benefit ya to improve the social benefit as a whole right uh looking at the big picture right actually charitable work should be made compulsory, you know that the aim the aim the aim of it is to achieve that but of course at the same time ideally it can make people feel better and also


can maybe build up all those like networking skills I mean all those like you know all those other you know positives I have mentioned earlier right is is I would say it's also a byproduct I mean is ideally a byproduct of of you know this uh


I mean of this like compulsory process but actually I think the ultimate ultimote ultimate aim, of making charity work compulsory is really to transfer, the I mean some wealth from people who don't really need that much to to those people who really need it and need that help


okay , death penalty should be abolished okay , I think death penalty should be abolished because you know I think the death penalty doesn't really improve public safety


evidence had shown that actually death penalty has no impact, on public safety and stats from sorry stats from the death penalty information center indicate that in the past forty years , there had being around like one thousand one hundred eighty four executions in the south part of america compared to just fall in north east part of america yet you know


homicide figures in two thousand fifteen were actually nearly eighteen percent oh sorry not not eighteen percent seventy percent higher in the southern states , so uh actually, I mean therefore actually by I mean by abolishing the death penalty would we I mean we could focus our time energy and resources for supporting uh victims and families


harmed by violence we can also ensure that all the victims are being treated fairly and respect , actually if you listen to the victim speak about the experience with death penalty you find that you'll find that were truly all are frustrated with the


current system and the, actually also death, penalty right actually uh does not address the root cause of the crime


I mean it actually the focus should be preventing


and then ya ya so okay so basically death penalty actually doesn't uh address the root cause of the crime


our actually I think our focus should, all our our focus should be on preventing crime and violence and should focus on the root cause to the crime and uh you know crimes happens when other issues such as like you know uh mental health housing access to education or sustainable


employment options are being neglected actually when these issues are addressed you know our community it should become safe and (oo) uh you know for us to live in, and I've actually a lot of law enforcement officers


also agree that death penalty is not a deterrent to crime actually people who commit crime right uh who probably faced those like social issues that I have mentioned earlier and you know having a death penalty will not deter you know deter them I mean if they are really being


put into I mean not they I mean if they are really being put into such a difficult situation I think if is there're you know they might they might do something which you know , which you know probably is the only which which their choice lefts you know they will still do it right or rather than you know if you know whether uh rather I mean whether there's the death penalty or not


I mean the you know like so they rarely actually consider the consequences when they engage in violence, if they did actually they wouldn't commit crime in the first place right so actually death penalty uh therefore would not addressed the root cause of the crimes so so it won't it won't help the situation and also a lot of times death it death penalty rarely can't not applied fairly across countries


and some people are I means in some countries you know , I think some people are not being are not tried enough then they are they are being issued with a death penalty and then they were being uh you know uh prosecuted and later on you know maybe of X number of years then they were they were


I mean it's found out that actually they they are not the real criminal then but you know uh you cannot reverse uh, what has has done then life has already I mean a life has already I mean a life has already being taken yes so ya so I mean given the three uh reasons I mentioned


firstly doesn't improve the public safety and secondly it doesn't really address the root cause of the crime and thirdly is not applied in across different countries and might result in death of actually innocent people therefore they should abolish death penalty


#yi ming chang#, ,


, okay oh I I okay I I, I I think uh I mean again ah I mean actually if you use the drug trafficking as one example right so in that way you I mean like were mentioned right uh uh you know is uh advertise everywhere you know actually I not not too sure whether right word is advertise that I was thinking but I


, ya ya ya so actually but actually uh like what I have mentioned right uh it doesn't address the root cause of the problem right so actually it doesn't address the fact that


I mean the intention of those people to do drugs uh you know or you know you get get involve in drug trafficking you know I think, they need to study like what kind of problems or social issues they are facing I mean I I'm just guessing lah perhaps some some of them are doing is really for the quick money they really want to get rich very fast right uh giving a death penalty would not address that actually will not stop


people who I mean the original intention is really to, you know to to they are looking on, money in in a in a in a a faster way or you know to you know uh from doing so right I mean uh I I I don't think it will it will it will it will address that problem and also uh you mentioned earlier


that actually what the other one you mention I can't remember anymore , , oh okay okay uh ya oh okay so actually


uh do you think, okay actually I also uh don't think you know uh not, uh, keeping uh keeping the death penalty right you know I mean it a lot of people


kill other people all are rich and at the point of time actually a lot a lot of murderers right if they interview if you interview them afterwards, they probably unless they are really serious killers those people who are sick in their mind then they have some psychological problems then you know whether death penalty or not right will not help


because I mean they are suffering from some mental or psychological issues is a medical condition then they go around to kill people, so having death the death penalty or not will not stop such people from killing people and for all those people who are normal actually when they become a murderer actually I actually I watch a lot of such criminal shows right actually when you interview them afterwards


they all regret what they have done and they did it out of impulse or out of rage at that moment, so then at that point of time they wouldn't think oh you know I'm going to face the death death penalty therefore I wouldn't do it


right, so having death penalty actually will not stop, you know people you know normal people or those people with mental issues right who become murderers eventually from doing the crime at all so it will not I mean back to my original point it will not stop the root cause of this crimes happening and at the same time you know for those people who


actually we're talk about the murderers from both categories right I think one, a normal people right who are able to function normally when they kill other people because of the rage because, because they were , you know because of oh impulse


uh I think you know if give them deaths penalty uh I mean they probably regret after I mean I'm a a lot of them actually most of them if not all right regret it afterwards they feel very remorseful remorseful they would like they they they are willing to do whatever to you know uh to pay back you know what they


they had done wrong and I think this people still deserve you know, a second life, a second chance in life and if you give them death penalty uh then you are most taking that chance of they and for those people who are are suffering from psychological or mental issues and actually they should sympathise them ah because


the behaviours is beyond you know uh you know their control then did the as as a result actually they kill other people of course is a very uh , like gruesome act right that they should be punished punished I agree but should we take their life away from them then that's another


question right, so I I think you know we shouldn't take their life away from them because actually they might be a victim themselves to begin with due to the health issues, and you know having a death penalty applied right without considering all this right actually is almost not showing empathy to such group of people


at the same time you know really taking, I mean to suddenly it say not treating this people fairly as well imagine correct,


so, ya so this is the back to my third point uh you know uh I mentioned right during uh in during uh I mean at the beginning of this uh you know kind of like discussion


uh death penalty actually is not applied fairly across countries therefore you know we shouldn't make death penalty you know uh compulsory because that what you mentioned right, uh you know


in a lot countries ya ya correct ya correct being as being sentenced to death or not doesn't I mean doesn't, depend a lot of times right actually not even in china maybe in US or whatnot right being sentenced to, death doesn't depend on whether you have committed the worst crime but actually depends on whether you have a good lawyer or not or depends on where it in a crime is committed uh you know so sometimes you know like uh uh you have a good lawyer you know you


you know even if you committed a worst crime right you get you might get away with it but for those people who are poorer and they cannot afford to, uh hire you know a very good lawyer then they might end up like getting a death penalty but also might be also a scenario by actually they are not the real


they are not the real, uh you know uh, uh what's that ah they are not they are not the person who actually committed I mean actually not a lot of such cases they are not uh you know the person who committed the crime you know but because of the misjudgement or maybe the lack of the resources of you know


uh of having access to good lawyers or bruno right then they just have to accept it, a death penalty ahead uh having their lives taken away and I think you know, it could happen I mean there's a chance of it happening in singapore as well right because end of the day you know uh


legal I mean lawyer you have still have to pay lawyer to fight for you I think you you know there are also people who, who are relatively more uh better resource in singapore compared to a lot of others so uh unfairness may arise you know when in such situation occurs and


then you will have a you know when you give uh issue a death penalty right if it's done wrongly I mean the wrong way right it is irreversible like what I mentioned earlier so yeah the fact that they cannot ensure you know whether it can be applied


you know fairly uh you know across countries or even within our own country right we shouldn't make it mandatory,


yeah but but I feel like what mentioned uh it doesn't, I mean if you are someone who has no resources who are really in that


you know uh who no resources you know uh who have no one to ya who have no one to ya to have no one to fight for you already I mean it's like ya everything I mean to a certain extend right I mean although sadly right a lot of things in this world right


if you know especially when you are involved in a lawsuit you know or you know a a trial you really have to uh have a lot of support throughout financially in order to pull through that period, I think if you don't have that right I think certainly you will be at a greater disadvantage and and also you know like I mentioned right if I mean death and any other types of


punishment, it can be a I mean there is a chance I mean there's still a chance because you are still alive okay bye


okay


I suppose alright can I say, okay uh actually, art, has a very uh important err role in society


art is how we understand each other culture, and uh art is a multiracial committee and we have a different aspect as our traditional uh within our community like during uh the national day in


national day childrens in school uh sing songs national uh songs and uh songs in a different language such as chinese malay and tamil that help to, unite as one nation


although we are not understand art other songs children sings as it brings them close to one and another one racial harmony day children also dress up in each


other costumes as a significant to different races these costumes are created, with uh uh


our our food


ya (oo), I I I I I think uh arts may not able to like saving uh during uh, time of crisis however it help us to stay the same during the pandemic many singaporeans turn to netflix


book and, music to keep them occupied, then when they had to be at home all the time it help many people to cope with difficult time like these


days many parents use youtube to play cartoons shows the children how to occupied when they, when the when they do their work, up


ya ya but the point is uh


children we have to motivate the childrens how they dress up, to come up to altogether to say that this is how are we going to, be and uh this shows that a racial harmony


getting altogether is really uh showing that,


think


oh uh I I don't think so I agree with you already in this topic you see because uh it's not really, uh like err watching movie uh in the netflix or it's not everybody what you see there are a lot of people uh do read books also at home not only waste time watching TV there are a lot of things that can be done at home also


uh like work like like people are like stop working they're they're what they do is uh they are working from home you see so uh, only their childrens maybe they're by watching cartoon maybe it's a it's a general knowledge also you see watching cartoons for children and uh there's a a lot of like children are doing a home based studies


so I think uh, during this uh pandemic, it's it's not a really a waste time because uh people tend to be like united at, home uh and uh they can do uh all the things at from home instead of uh running here and there


you see uh, that's what I I think of also lah because everybody have their own individual things I think now our childrens are more uh more intelligent than those days you see actually they know what to do how to cope up with everything uh


cope up with all their works I think uh childrens are more I think uh they are more particular of like studies all not like those days, uh, uh they like to like havoc or anything I mean uh at home I mean uh they are they have like better guidance with their parents also you see or they're with their friends and the nowadays uh teachers are very closely are monitoring what the childrens are doing


I mean now there is a zoom for them there is a zoom app for teacher to see what their childrens their childrens are doing


ya and but this is your own opinion you see ya but that that's the point , that's my point and because everybody have their own uh view how they look at the art also you see I think uh singapore they I think a lot of people


the arts art and the culture you see, that's why uh our government have done a lot things for the childrens and the for the singapore citizens and uh for the tourists, how the art see


that's why we every year we have uh like uh art gallery shows and the dance uh a lot uh government is promoting a lot a a lot of these uh stuffs like community, centres RC centres they are promoting a lot of this dance for the citizens and uh public to come in to see all these you see


yup, ya that's true


art is art I I think art is not only uh is is not a only a frame you what do you see you see you have to art is also is a culture you can like celebrate things


you uh, there are a lot more you see, uh art is not only a gallery you see there's a lot there's a lot things in


, like what what what you say like they are


singapore is a very strict country right as you know, cause uh we don't want to influence uh, third party I mean foreigners to come here and do a, maybe uh maybe too uh


maybe too aggressive ah maybe what uh what I say ah, , actually like watching movie is like just a entertainment only you see it's not it's not a knowledge or anything it just a entertainment what you see you come up


is watching movies don't applies uh our daily, uh daily things in our life you see it's a like art is totally different watching movies different then every err I think I have everybody have their own way of doing things also you see


I I think mister Shanmugam I think the other time he stop because because, I think they know what is good and what is not good to be to be help I think uh


we need a lot of approval to do things in singapore you see


in fact uh I think in singapore we already have a lot of like musical festival this


also is the art you see we have a lot government have uh a implement err many err racial harmony things, festival uh art festivals every year we have a lot like like national day celebration you see you see also is a art that's why uh singapore have not stopped the national day also for this year you see even though there is a pandemic you see because singapore they want it to be united


as a whole, that's the I I think that's the main reason why singapore is not stopping the national day celebration for this year, because it's it's it's it's also is a like art also you see there's a I think that's will be the main main reason they want they want all to become together you see


instead, uh, it's part of but err but how you want to get all get together then singapore will be like very dull and


like not happening you see at at least there is a celebration then uh it's uh like motivating people you see what I feel that is lah because uh like everyday like seeing the wall or what people getting boring you see


that's why uh singapore they I think uh singapore government want to do the celebration to motivate people that's what I feel also lah


not really also that one because uh different people have different because now generation I think ah they know what


what they're doing you see main thing I think uh now I think, err, I I think singapore I think uh they are more straightforward you see uh like doing a pop songs I I think like pop songs err


I think uh our government also is controlling all these also getting, to get worse on these issues in recently there was, happen in uh like very uh like malay one of the


I think uh, uh, I think uh there is a one musician uh done in a malay group then the I think our president also have stopped this uh


bad influence on these so they have cut down on these you see so I think uh be uh I think the government also is monitoring and uh everything is being monitored you see I think our parents also monitor what, children is doing to get into bad influence I think uh I think our society I think they know what


what is good and what bad you see, yup


ya ya agree I totally agree with you what you're saying you see


ya agreed also with you what you have said


part three debate topic three


uh I I don't uh agree with your with you you see books are very important because, you see you know right history where the history come, from from the book


our ancestors all come from the book you see, so you want to know what is the history you have to see the book also you see, even uh you say uh like library close because library close because no people going there you see because


now all inside the smartphone all inside the PDF all the books all all inside the PDF so people still can read through the now all inside the digital you see so now all people are reading it instead of reading the book they are reading the digital books


so that that's how uh, improving you see this one we are going forward, so doesn't mean library closed means there's no book you see all the books inside the digital, so, I don't agree with you what do you have say watching movie is just a past time


is but but book are books are more, read by read books the it will improve, your knowledge and your you can think further you see I have seen children are reading book and they can cry also you see by reading I mean it's a deep inside


like three hour movie, just a three hour movie but if you read a book it can be a sixteen chapters or sixteen books you see it's, uh I think the book has more sense than the watching a movie that's what I think also I think ah my daughter also she read a lot of books you see uh she also knows


she also knows all this you see, I think ah she have a big a big collection of books also, and uh you say ah books are not important


(oo), no I don't agree also with this because books are more I think books by reading books is more worth and how you


put on your words and uh people understand it you see and uh like watching, movie is just a entertainment only is don't bring you to the knowledge and uh the movie don't tell you more information I think the book will give you more information


and uh, I think watching movie is just a today watch tomorrow forget you see the book is not like that, it can pass histories everything it can be everything is written down you see even you see astrology also using written you see see everything has been written


that's what I feel , now you agree already what


now all going I think now all going on digital you see


I think uh I I think uh not everybody go and watch movie you see but a books or newspapers like it reaches everybody you


see that's how I feel because uh like only books or what what, material you read in it's can be a newspaper can be a flyers everything reaches to the down to the people you see everybody is still now people are still reading newspaper even it's good to the like


it's good to like uh uh, ya, newspaper still is a reading material


and err, is read it is just down to the people can read all these, yup on that


I think too I think too fast will dead very fast you see like books you can uh simple book you can keep it very long you see, yes


ya even like people giving out like flyers you see they cannot give everybody a handphone so it's it's a people giving a lot of flyers pamphlets like even you go in like on the travel like MRT you still need a guide you see


you still you still need a banner banner also is a reading material


but not everybody can see and understand you see


but like book or uh like maybe a book is a good guide for them you see, is like pamphlet, that I mean they can carry together with them the the I think the video showing the screen they cannot carry you see


that's what I mean, one time they see they forget you see by the time they walk pass through not everybody can remember but if they carry a material with them it's a book or it's a flyer they can remember and go through with them you see


oh no it's still okay I give you one uh small small err, if let's say you want you want to travel, inside the jungle there will be a no network you have to use a guide guide the guide is a book you have to find the road correct


ah so you see how book is very more important it's a guide for you it will show you the direction, a simple phone no wifi is dead but it's a book is not dead you see still alive


ah are you agree with this , I mean you can use GPS uh uh without wifi it's a dead phone or everything is dead you see there's uh no digital everything is dead book is not dead you see book will like bring you throughout you see


one day there is no current no nothing the book is the only the guide for you you see


true if there's no electricity what are you going to tell do at home we have to read books right


ah yes uh uh, you can use no need electricity you can use a lender candle to read a book, you see but not (ppc) see


okay ah okay I can't uh okay I give you another example lah okay, movie put aside when you buy a washing machine what comes with it it's a manual it's a manual it's a book right


when you buy something you need a manual the manual is a guide for you you see even you want to promote you want to apply apply a job still you have to write down you see, ah okay alright ah


it's still a it's still a reading material is very important okay is is there something to follow you have to follow a book


so I think like in singapore I would say that ya many people do consider art to be a waste of time like especially because like in schools we are, taught like uh like there's a heaviest focus on subjects like math and science in school because like uh we are taught that is going to help us progress as a society in singapore especially because like singapore is such a small country and then we always want to


place the focus on the economy and how to improve the economy and we've managed to come from like a third world country to a first world country in like a very short amount of time and it's like it's because of like how much uh emphasis was placed on like subjects like math and science


which, uh ya and then also in schools we uh subjects like arts and humanities are always seen as, like a hobby like something that you just pursue at the side like it it won't really like help the society to progress like with


ya I think that's like my point


I think like even though arts does help uh us understand each other and you know arts as our I'm mention like but especially like if you see the during like in times of crisis it doesn't really like help us like like uh like even according to like the recent


study that was uh conducted by the straits times like uh they said that uh they I think they they like up to thousand people responded to the survey and then like, that I think about seventy percent of them said that like art, artists are like the most non essential uh jobs in singapore lah then they don't really like


help the society to like I don't know find a vaccine for the COVID or like uh help us like earn money or like put food on the table and then like uh, even places like the supermarket all were like they not they were not shut down during the circuit breaker but then like places like the cinema everything were like shut down because like films and all that it's like considered art but it's like wasn't really like essential and like and the also like it will help


like bring people together that's all lah it won't help during a virus like a pandemic ya and then like uh, then the most essential jobs are like jobs and like jobs are like doctors and nurses


who are the ones that are like saving lives and like their frontline workers and then that these jobs come from like subjects like science and math that we learn in school which is like why there're always like is a more important role in schools as well because it can help us like


especially it help us especially like during times of crises, ya (oo)


uh he say that like racial harmony day like, they dress up in each other's clothes but then I don't think like children really understand like the significance of like the culture and everything like


sometimes I think they just do it blindly because like that's what they're told by the school to like do sort of like I think sometimes culture and, the arts and stuff is like a lot of times it's just something that like we don't really get to explore in singapore as well like it's just something that we are told to do and then we do it


we as a , I'm thinking what else to say okay uh


think like the part where you talk about like singaporeans like turning to netflix and books to keep them occupied but then I think a lot of people use this as a way to like waste their time also during like, the the crisis like instead of like uh like doing something more productive or like ya then you just like watch movies all the time then it's like


is like a time waster lah basically and I think can be can be doing something more, productive like learning a new skill especially because, like we have more time now so we could have like learn a like can take up courses online ya since everything is online now


so it can help us like new learn new skills that can be essential, for us in the future like doing finding another job maybe right, since a lot of people also like lost their jobs during the crisis so like maybe learning a new skill can like


help you find a, different job after the crisis over something like even during the crisis so like, instead of just like watching movies all the time or like reading books which is like can be helpful but like it's not very like the best way to spend your time


but then I think like if we're seeing in singapore's context like, there's two very very a lot of people still think that like


arts doesn't really like help us progres as a society as well like, like, like more labour intensive works are the ones that are like really helping singapore to


be a better society and then like usually arts is just like something that can be, enjoyed rather and then like it's something that you just go and look at when you have time but it's not something that you put time aside for is and it's like it's just seen as like as a past time only


and err


but I think ultimately it uh arts is not like something that can like save lives or anything like it's uh ultimately it's just like uh something that


for, something that is we just enjoy and it doesn't, , it doesn't help us progress as the society in the more uh like logical terms and like


ya I think we can stop already, cause it's been seventeen minutes right


okay so the question is, art is not meant to instruct or inform it's only meant to be enjoyed and uh yes I think it is meant to be enjoyed uh in the more broad term cause especially in like our society


we arts is like when we go watch a movie or like listen to songs, like if that can like lift our mood up and when we go watch a concert like this sort of things we can do for fun, like even like after we watch a movie we don't like immediately start acting in a different way like


like it doesn't uh change the rules in the society or anything like in a movie can like movies like maybe example like the hunger games where it's like showing like a president like killing uh like he's organising


this thing where he be like has teenagers like killing each other and stuff like that like this one suddenly doesn't like apply to our society where we think like oh we must act like this or anything like it's just something we watch and then like


we would like discuss with our friends like what do you think this movie means but like that's it like we don't really like use it to uh implement into our society and stuff, and not even songs and everything like is this if we think that it


is something that can be influence be like put a stop in the like in singapore like example I think last year or two years ago there was a concert that was supposed to like happen in singapore but then like uh Shanmugam he like banned them from coming in singapore because like he


he he can thought that like it could like influence our society so like even if he's did think that it can influence it like put a stop to it so that we only see or something that we can enjoy in singapore ya


okay ya , I I think that's why like in art should only be seen as something that you can enjoy uh shouldn't make it like something that can like change the way you think


or uh, like the way we think and everything should be influenced by like logic and uh like academic things that we learn in school, it should also come from like the values that we learn from our parents our the morals these are things that we don't get from art these are things we get from uh what our parents teach us or like what the teachers


just in school and this this uh uh this, things that is embedded into us and is nurtured into us, so these are the things that should influence us in the society instead of like uh


arts, which is was just be like a, something a beautiful thing to like admire or like some a beautiful music to listen to


okay I agree but also like some when, uh


uh ya as you mention that like singapore like is still going forward with, the national day celebration and everything I think that is uh it can also be something that is a little bit


not as important as like staying safe like it is like it can be important to stay united but I think staying safe is, more important, sometimes like especially even during like the election when like everyone wanted to celebrate and everything then it is go out and like gather together but then it can also be something that's like dangerous like because the virus is like it it spreads very fast


amongst people so like even with the national day celebration as well it's something that can uh it can uh play a negative role


uh, I think that is true but


right ya I think ya I think music can sometimes it can't have the influence that is intended to it can also be a negative influence like a lot of things like kids these days like they consume too many negative things from the media like


everything is just like on the forefront there's like no, no regulation of what kids are watching of what kids are listening to these days like everyone has their own phones everyone has their own computer so they can look at whatever they want


and then sometimes it becomes some more than just uh something that can be enjoyed it becomes something that can, uh that can easily change you and then it can change you for the worse instead so like instead of using it something to uh impact you you should always like look at it as a


third party and not let it like influence you in a bad way ya


yup, but I think uh kids like sometimes children don't know what uh they they, think it's good but they might not know whether it's like it's really good or not and sometimes like they watch a lot of like these youtubers and


you they will start talking about like something that's irrelevant to what the, the kids are are interested in and then after that they slowly start to like put in their own opinion sometimes there's a lot of like culture uh western influence uh it's like trying to like move into the fabric of our singaporean society as well


uh did the they they can be quite radical topics like like err, going against like the authority or going against the government and then like because in americans stuff they have free speech and then uh they can like openly say anything whatever they want and then they have very very like uh


racial tension and stuff but in singapore cause like we don't let uh what we watched on the media like influence us we are still like quite peaceful country and we don't have like as big problems as like uh america has and


or like even just like other countries because like, uh like you you see in like TV on like american TV they're like they have like comedians and stuff like, just bashing their own government and then like people watch them and then they also like start thinking of like all those like bad stuff about their own government then but then in singapore like we don't uh allows such things to be shown on TV because


uh these are like things that can like influence people in a bad way so now like the only things that we see on TV are like things that we can like enjoy on our past time like things that won't make us, have like negative or like bad thoughts


, yup


ya that's ya and then, yes I I think I it's something that we can definitely not let us like change our mindset it can can watch it then you can like listen to


you can view but we, should always the thinking this is not something that like can, control our mindset or uh change the rules of the society


part three debate topic two, okay so I guess I agree that books are basically dead and that are the way to go like especially library or uh streaming sites like netflix disney plus hulu all these are like where you watch


film and then we we don't have like a lot of like all this, kind of streaming sites for like books like and many people like even in singapore a lot of libraries are, like closing down like there was one library near my house that is like it's now doesn't exist anymore because no one really like goes there to like borrow books anymore


and, even in like in in the cultures, while like many people talk about what is the latest movies you have seen or uh like what did you think of this movie about like we don't really say like oh what is the latest books you have seen uh you have read uh like the what do you think of this book or what do you think of that book like we don't really talk about books anymore


and you said something that you know like textbooks or something that we do because like it was required in the school, or like uh we read and researched books in like universities as well, we we did it cause like it's it's cite them in our essays


but we don't really like read it in our life like leisure time like why because you want to find if you want to find more information you would just watch a video about it cause it's just like easier to like absorb the information and it's like more entertaining as well


but reading it's like, uh it takes more time and it's you need more concentration, and uh everything like I think films, are always like the superior when it comes to like uh communicating messages as well


about like internationally but we don't really have I mean we have like the nobel peace prize right that one is like not many people also watch it or anything, ya I think that's my point for now


yes, but I think ultimately no matter how many books you read it can always you watch more movies than books and


in a day like many people can watch at least like two or three movies but you


and then in films it can also have like the power to influence also like where we can see like when in