but if you you if you don't want to is it oh no I didn't want to pop music it's just rubbish then you have to think about other thing you know you you can play you can try playing a, a classical or music ah I think it will take very very very long for people to start talking you know


that's like you did it really depends on what is the the intention of the music that you need it for so playing different music


no you don't need to listen to the whole song to get the message , I tell you the songs are actually just are just repeating itself, no it's different people don't don't you if you ask me ah would I rather to uh listen to a music or to read a flyer


a poster of course I listen to a music why do I want to read, !yay! I'm done


part one debate topic one


okay (ppc) I'm just gonna, okay before I serve my point right I'll just make a few like rebuttals, (ppc) so you did mention about this uh survey I can't really remember by who I think it's by the straits times by one of the uh


uh other media companies which came out and the results said told that you stated was, artists were ranked like the first, as a non essential or as a night non essential career jobs like you did, you do have to take note that the it's not very fair contextual assessment of how artists in our society are being assessed because uh when the


survey that's was being put out during the COVID period so naturally for a layman to respond to such a survey would, obviously prioritised like first aiders or like doctors and what not which actually do fight the disease and that is like the main cause in their in the context


so one would give like little thought towards uh thinking about artists during those period especially if we look at it on a more practical point of view artist don't really combat, uh disease directly they are


they do serve a purpose which in this in this context would be entertainment which I'll bridge over to my point, point and one of our which is one of the key functions of the arts in our societies to entertain and has our society


has arts in our society accomplished that function of the arts which I would say it does to a very uh to a, very good growing minority extend I will not say that it is a majority but it's a very strong it's very strong growing minority


in which if you look at like be a ministry of uh the MCCY statistics in twenty ninety in which reflects uh the, positive patient rate in our country so we look at two thousand fourteen it our participation rate of number of people that attended in twenty fourteen


to arts events or museums and what not it's about nine point eight million, and this grew to a eleven point four million in in a mere span of four years which is the twenty eighteen stats and this eleven point four million effect free our all time uh


best record in terms of how many people are showing interest and attending, uh art really that programmes so if you look at this diverse strong growing number right, we can actually do say that there is an increase in our interest in appreciation towards the arts and and


even though it might even though it's not probably a majority be compared to entire population but it's a strongly minority and it should not be dismissed and, it definitely shows that art is not always to an increasing number of people so uh passing it on to you


okay


I see okay so, you did a mention okay it's just uh let's me just do a few rebuttals before I go to my point, uh so first thing you did mention about the career based or like arts careers so I think we can both agree that arts is a multi dimensional


we can't just look at like uh one perspective which is like career I mean I'm I'm not uh dismissing the other points that you for up but just looking at career based, uh it's just one is just one way to look at art and, ah there's there's like many ways to look at it as like fashion and like ah capture because okay so I'll be looking particularly into the other perspectives such as like


fashion wise because art is can be define as a mode of them self expression correct, so with this in mind I'm going to establish how this mode of expression to art and fashion is closely linked to consumerism


and uh which is consumerism uh thing uh idea in mind it actually does, boost our economy in terms in the arts sector as well so, looking at a few examples right if we look at this uh I'm not very sure if you guys know of this term but I think this is the official term


it's called dislike hype it's a trend so it's basically a trend where people and more often than not used on uh people of the millennial generation they indulge in uh, how high street wear fashion brands where we're looking we're looking at luxury


luxury brands like Louis Vuitton your Balenciaga your Adidas and what not so these uh very uh, high priced brands in the market and people of uh young ages, probably twenty to like thirties they are indulging and they are finding joy in


expressing themselves by purchasing such a luxury goods so, so these luxury goods right when we look at the, you might you may term them as as senseless indulgences


however like people do see them as form of expression or even if it's not expression it's uh, it's a physical manifestation of what they like to portray themselves in terms of like their status because they are able to afford such products and for such consumers to afford such high


uh high pricing products right it definitely does reflect on the economy where does help the economy where uh when people consume products, so you so this is also to rebut your point where people are less quick to open their wallets to the arts


I think when you were making at point you're referring more towards like uh art exhibitions and what not but if you look at other perspectives like fashion as mode of self expression K I'm pretty sure people are very very ready to open their wallets, if you're not looking at fashion we can probably look at concerts held in singapore those are forms of art as well that people do attend


where uh artists from other countries come to singapore to perform people are very ready to open their wallets to spend on concert tickets or whatnot we look at a very famous korean band the BTS, pretty sure fans will go crazy to just attend their concert or be very willing to spend


money uh to support such forms of art in our society so, yes definitely if we're talking about local art, where uh we just looking at museums our local art galleries and our heritage and whatnot definitely on that aspect I contend that it has to be improved


and government are and it could probably be improved by government uh, more government funding however if the demand is not there, uh I don't think that, uh it reflects that art it's a waste of time because it's just one


aspect in like the multi dimensional uh, market where I shall wait that we should be looking at art which would trying over that one aspect so do you wanna wrap up or have anything else to say


a particularly you looking at high, passion because it has a very big impact you know, economy costly she amount that people just spending so ya, so


show you of


part two debate topic two


okay, !wow! uh what an extreme example just start off uh, ya okay I get really uh coming from so definitely do understand your the link that you have drawn when you said that


uh firstly needs to be enjoyed as primary purpose before it can, if any sort of uh influence or instruction to its audience with your example yes very clearly illustrated uh however


that is only, that's only for that's only if the artist does the does place enjoyment as a primary purpose


before uh influence is to be uh executed on its audience, so for your example definitely, this art needs to be there needs to be a form of appreciation towards it before any form of understanding can uh be followed by that


how there are other forms of art which I will state that uh enjoyment, does not necessarily need to be its primary purpose before uh, before uh it wants to influence or instruct people to do certain things if we look at


to to influence people of their uh political uh political propaganda agendas right, definitely in these kind of artworks are not meant to be, so called appreciated or enjoy in such a way uh as uh previous as uh in such a way likened to the example


of the german artist so we look at like famous uh logos and whatnot they are forms of art, they are uh there are pictures and whatnot which can be taken to be art forms if you look at like the red swastika okay a very controversial uh logo


where it's linked to the uh world war one and the nazis and whatnot just like logo and during that time period where many political posters have been like put out, to paint jews in a very a negative light and lead which inadvertently led to the rise of less power and influence definitely these kind of political uh art forms right


they do not they are not, posted out with the primary purpose for people to enjoy it it is it can be very easily understood, too as a form uh it can be very easily understood that


it's being posted out to influence people to think in a certain way or to act in a certain way, and not just taking uh the red swastika a logo of political art, uh a political propaganda of such a long period if we look at our period currently


the there is an artist in uh London based or uh england based or if you know him they known as banksy, switzerland and anonymous uh graffiti street artist that has gained a global traction in his


political uh and satirical uh art forms on the street, if we look at uh two two of his very famous artworks uh girl with balloon and unwelcome intervention, they carry they carry very deep uh seated political uh meanings within them


and even uh and their not meant to be merely enjoyed by the masses, it's clearly a form influence that the artist's trying to portray or express through his anonymous art forms so


art is viewed as form of expression and an expression is dangerous because it can be influential and to instruct people to do certain things, so arts its primary perversion not merely be looked at as a form of entertainment or something to be enjoy uh often


previously you mentioned that when you broke down the motion you put meant like the word meant you defined it as primary purpose


so in that case an art it's sort of seriously the art is like a medium of, influence and, and its intended purpose is not to instruct influence so can you clarify that


okay, so if you if talking about uh sorry do you want finish up first


okay, okay, okay you talked about okay then in this point you're talking about the artist having uh the purpose in mind and you talked about censorship


so it's it's sort of like a art experiencing as a mode of communication between like the artists and the audience am I right, we're talking about the purpose at mind, right so okay thinking uh thinking about that train of line uh that train of thought train of line train of thought


so, there are underlying meanings behind like various uh uh, artworks and whatnot so if we were to look about , artworks or things taken to be forms of art as a permanent physical historical imprint to educate us


let's say we're looking at egyptian texts or pyramid architecture clearly these are forms of art, that are not being put out to be enjoyed, correct so they are more of educating the future of mankind per se


perhaps when people were doing their ancient aztecs on like stone walls in egyptian text they are more of writing down their history, however right in today's context such uh such architecture is being


can be perceived as forms art and the purpose in mind would be to educate uh future generations of uh, uh history or what or or what went down in history, so


going back to your point of having a at the purpose in mind wouldn't then wouldn't you consider these forms of art to have a purpose in mind to instruct or influence, rather than to be enjoyed as a primary purpose


as in the arts many things fall under the arts since you have previously defined, where let's say a mode of expression if it come in forms of like design and whatnot so I would say architecture is a form of design and


ancient egyptian text they are a form of architecture and they are perceived as art form in today's uh, multifaceted contexts in terms of looking at the arts


okay so you're saying that like, it's it's it's like I you could see it as formed education so education than would fall under like the instruction and influence instead of I mean you can't really enjoy education


correct so education is more of like under instruction influence yeah so I would say I would park it under there instead of a enjoyment


okay cool just gonna wait for like five seconds, okay


part three debate topic three


okay so, I will only be okay I'll start of with, taking away two points that you did mention one would be stimulating experience and the other one would be uh


books are getting more obsolete and films should be the way to go which is exactly what, the motion states right so step for stimulating experience , we can then say that okay the world is getting extremely digitalised right now


uh books are probably one of the only one of the only forms where we, we get to escape from this side digitalised world so


wouldn't books then be important for personal cognitive and imaginative growth which, it's quite counter intuitive but let me try to explain, so okay I'm just gonna use the uh I'm just gonna plonk like a statistic from a USA national library of medicine yes


where they did uh come up with issued statements were, which goes against contrary popular believe uh that, when a person reads a physical book rather than a film right, uh there is actually can more brain activity being found when a person's reading as opposed to watching a film so


in that sense we can take this piece of information from the USA national library of medicine to interpret that, uh it's proof that, books do give a more stimulating experience as compared to the film's than what normal people would like to think of uh


because since there's more brain activity being found and moreover there is when you read a book in exposed to watching a film, there is more you could see there is more physical interaction because you know your hands like go through pages and what not there's more is greater sense of uh control as


as compared to watching a film, so I would say the physicality that books are able to provide as compared to films definitely do give uh definitely will give a more stimulating experience


uh therefore book right should not be obsolete lah, as compared to films and the other point he did I was about to uh address was, okay actually I can't remember so I'm just going to pass it on


ya


so many uses of books if you look at education which youths will go through, in half of their or more like their entire youth period in education books are greatly lauded, and sought after and suppose to digital


uh uh I suppose using electronics if you take our COVID period where everything now it's online and books have suddenly or like face to face interaction and like physical copies of like books are now so called


uh becoming more obsolete because uh we can't really have their face to face interaction anymore, many students have come up with the issue I have come to respond in surveys that , they hate online education and they hate like the whole idea of it because there is no


there isn't that physicality of it there isn't that uh into personal aspect where, people thought which people thought they would be better off without but turns out we actually do crave that, physical uh physical touch of like certain things which aids our experience in terms of I would say education


were there will be taking away like that would definitely be helping the practical aspect in terms of like studying methods, exposed to like using films as better like way to digest information


as compared to a physical book, but ultimately the exams and whatnot if you talking about literature uh the exact are ultimately based on the written text, so even if students do go to


films as a a better or more digestible quick fix way of, uh understanding the uh uh sure intonation, it still falls back to the physical written text


and I think no amount of film is able to replace what one can uh, uh understand from like the physical text in terms of education and in literature


and if we if we do branch off okay if I may branch off further from the literature, there is a reason I mean okay obviously the share comes in different forms but if you are looking at just a written kinds where students in our society are mainly studying


like you know typical shakespeare and poetry and whatnot they are on with they're all in written forms, and till today, this uh this form of education in a an interest in literature still does carry on from the victorian era which is like


fourteen fifteen hundreds so for such a long period books and writing, I have not gone absolutely at all and I don't there isn't a very, good reason where they should go obsolete today even though


uh we are living in a very digitalised world where everything is very convenient and whatnot, it doesn't take away the fact that books are still important and they give uh, different feel and meaning towards learning, or representing certain ideas and things


so those are still books, they're not films, it's fine they have a digitalised book but is supposed to you talking about like, worthy representation versus like a visual


educational stimulation


okay contradicts what I said earlier about okay we'll just go from there


how do I feel flipping through pages online, uh well I mean


I mean definitely I guess like, uh a make shift physical aspect of it is still there you know I'm still like a flipping through something not like the usual paper like textures of a book so


even though I'm being short changed of like physical aspect I guess in a way still there, as opposed to just using my eyes, the film where I don't interact with the thingy at all so, oh yeah


!yay!


part one debate topic one okay


oh okay okay I I see okay, this house believes that the majority of the people in society and singapore the arts are a waste of time, so firstly the proposition shall define the arts as modes of expression that use scale or imagination into the creation of aesthetic objects


environments or experiences that can be shared with others this includes visual arts performing arts literature, decorative arts architecture for example, in the question it said waste of time so uh this can be defined as not non essential uh it doesn't utilise resources very well it


uh in terms of how we're going to measure this I propose measuring it based on how people in our society interact with the arts such as as a viewer engaging the artwork or the general public perception of artists


there is a general sentiment that the arts and by extension being an artist in singapore is non essential, just two months ago, the straits times and milieu insight a consumer research film uh firm sorry surveyed thousand respondents asking which are the jobs that are most crucial and keeping singapore going


and how much more they will pay for essential services so that workers in the sector may get a wage may get a wage boost, from that survey the job of an artist ranked first out of five non essential drops highlighted


with seventy one percent of respondents agreeing that it is as such, ow this may be a controversial graphic that instigated much , passionate responses from artists and creative alike that sought to prove the results otherwise but


the fact remains that for the majority of uh of respondents which can be taken as a representation of singapore as a whole, an artist does not deserve more resources or higher wages for various reasons


the arts are simply relegated to the position of the other, while doctors and nurses are lauded as the as essential, while medicine as part of it's part of the sizes are lauded his as essential the arts are clearly are simply just vitamins or


or supplements that can be done without vitamins that to most are just a waste of money and in parallel the arts are just a waste of time, clearly this is due to the part part of this is due to the global health pandemic which influenced general sentiments


but what the survey tells us is that it is a waste of time to be an artist to choose the arts as career when one can choose to be more useful being a doctor or a nurse


oh okay, oh yes


uh okay I contend the opposition's point that it is that


it it uh as a growing minority of people are starting to realise that the arts are not a waste of time but does the majority of people, think the same way I I I have my doubts on this singapore is a very practical country the arts to most of the people


who are not able to appreciate the arts would think that the arts are just you know frivolous indulgence, just for for the artist to, to convey their feelings to the audience and hence you know frivolous indulgence


so being an artist is not a popular career paths in singapore and I don't think you can refute that according to the national arts council, in its annual research report in twenty nineteen full time enrolment in tertiary arts courses are only in the thousands range


the combined enrolment and diploma undergraduate and postgraduate are courses in twenty eighteen is five thousand two hundred and forty one, now this can be placed , and contrast to other careers which are definitely more popular so from


not only can we see uh that I'm not many uh, young adults would find the arts as, uh well a good career path uh we can also measure that we can also measure whether the arts are a waste of


time or not essential as uh divined to be uh through to view the visitorship, or various arts exhibitions in singapore, definitely there has been an increase in engagement from two and twenty twelve to twenty eighteen we see that visitorship to national museums


and heritage institutions increased from two point eight million to five point three million according to the national arts council, it seems like a large figure with singapore's five point eight million population but this figure certainly does not account for repeat visitors over the year and across the different museums


earlier on I mention the survey by straits times and milieu and uh milieu insight, , the survey was was taken during a crisis uh it definitely swayed the general sentiments of the population


but one thing is for sure and when it comes to singapore people are less quick to open their wallets to for the arts, as compared to for other areas of as compared to yeah


did they just less , willing to spend money on the arts and that is quite telling, the arts in singapore are mainly funded by the state unlike in other countries such as the US where they are largely supported through private donors and foundations


does uh this mean that you know as a society even though a growing minority sees the value and the arts, we still have a long way to go before the arts are not uh


are not relegated to just paying a waste of time, in a survey with thousand thousand plus respondents conducted in twenty fourteen by the national arts council only, two percent of donors and singapore had given to the arts most of the individuals surveyed cited low awareness as their reason for not donating while twenty five per cent said they had no interest in the arts


so, I think uh wrapping up I would say that the general sentiment may change over the years with more, uh government support promotion and funding but as of now uh society our society and singapore does not fully embrace the value of the arts


I think is it's great that you looked at in the arts from a different angle from the from the angle of fashion but I think


you ask you might be specifically talking about high fashion because if fashion is just, a fashion is considered art okay I think the definition of art is sometimes very controversial because different people defined it differently


high high fashion is it's something that uh sees, it is is the is the area that sees most creative or expression in terms of


uh trying to trying to break out of a society's norms of what defines fashion and I think could you could you further elaborate on whether it is high fashion you are talking about or just fashion in general


okay so this if it's high fashion that you're talking about you think that for the majority of people uh they are actually consuming the arts without realising that they are consuming the arts


and it shouldn't and even though they think that the arts are a waste of time it actually isn't a waste of time


part two debate topic two yup


this house believes that art is not meant to instruct or influence it is only meant to be enjoyed, so the proposition shall define the art as (ppc) as, shall define art as the use of the imagination to express ideas or feelings particularly and painting drawing or sculpturing


the word meant and the question refers to the purpose of art and I would take it as it's primary purpose not a secondary purpose the point of contention here


is that art is the weather art is considered decorative or communicative and which time frame we're talking about, so


in order for art two instruct or influence artist, the the audience which uh engages who engages in art it has to be has to first be willing to understand


the artwork and opened to being challenged and on this quality I find is very rare because, because what the artist intends for uh might not always be received as such


uh artist can only hope that the intended meaning the intended purpose of the artwork is being conveyed, primarily art it has to be accepted and enjoyed with the artist wishes for it to be a medium of instruction and influence so


so if art so if the artwork in question does not, does not pass the first stage of enjoyment and of understanding by by the audience it is


it it it will miss the point of instructing or influencing at all, I would like to bring up a few controversial art that , that clearly even though


the artist intends for it to be a medium of instruction or influence , because it's it it cannot be enjoyed by the audience , it's just void of any uh of any meaning so


in uh twenty four, in uh twenty fourteen this artist called milo milo moire uh she actually uh featured, she she actually stood on the streets of germany squeezing paint filled eggs out of her


uh out of her vagina allowing them to burst colourfully unto blank canvas as she did this in full view , and it's supposed to it was intended to be a powerful feminist statement about women fertility and creativity


clearly it was not very well received because of how explicit the content of the art is and which goes back to the very fact that, because it cannot be enjoyed therefore uh even though it's intended to influence or instruct in this the point entirely


the guardian uh the guardian criticised it as being absurd gratuitous tried and desperate (ppc) so, I think art primarily has to be enjoyed even though it might be intended as a medium of instruction or influence yup passing on


I see I think there is no doubt that art sometimes achieve the effect of instruction and influence


political influence specifically so we have because picasso guernica we have cooling of the in the local context by the local playwright #alfian sa'at#, but I would like to say that it's more of the effect of art and not the purpose


but as in I think that the primary primary purpose of art is for enjoyment so , if the if the artist intends for it to be instruct to to be as a medium of instruction or influence then


there has to be you know different stages achieved first like the understanding the art and also accepting any form of like challenges to to perceptions by the viewer, but artworks that are


put out that like plays or paintings that have a political undertone , it has to be, it has to


it's it's coming from an angle where , where it's received as as a medium of influence not really like the purpose of it


I think if you if if an artist puts out an artwork uh with like very specific , purpose in mind it in an and conservative societies it might be it might be rejected or censored by by government bodies and so


yeah and so it has to it has to come off as supposedly harmless you know so that it gets it gets go ahead and it gets a green light


yet ya so that people can actually engage with the art at hand


yes yes


so you're saying that essentially there is not much of a difference between art and the arts because art encompasses the exactly the same things as the arts


yeah


but okay for the ancient egyptian text right it it has a very uh strong historical, historical purpose to it I think I would say because it's for like it's to record


a language that might that might go extinct in future so, it's not much of expressing ideas or feelings but more of to to ensure that


it continues to uh survive and you you but you would call that a medium of instruction is it


yeah, I see okay because I view education as what allows art to like education supplements


art in a in a way that it allows art to to to have the effect of a medium of instruction or influence, because the audience is the one that unpacks the meanings behind the artwork because it's open to interpretation and so


there is this understanding that uh without in my opinion without education if, if the person is not is not aware of the political undertones of it it's simply something that is meant to be enjoyed


yeah, okay we have only five seconds


part three debate topic three


this house believe this house believes that books are dead and films are the way to go however the proposition would like to , slightly adjust to question because films have actually been in existence since the nineteenth century so to say that


to to put books and films as Polaroid polarising ends would be , will be quite myopic , I'd like to interpret the question and a way such that


uh you know the physical the physical form of the book is is, becoming uh more and more obsolete and online uh, alternative such as uh Netflix shows or virtual reality which seems to be becoming uh which seems to be seeing actuality in twenty twenty three


are about to take over the role of , the the role of uh hard uh hard copy books yeah so


I'll take books to me as both fictional a non fictional and the way to go essentially means uh replacing like uh in it in with the new and out with the old, so


firstly I like to talk a bit of why this perception may be a search back in the nineteen hundred books when books regaining traction


companies companies are actually , receiving a lot of revenue from selling books however when we see when we see search films today uh


they have found ways to adapt in a society that has been embracing higher levels of technology so , authors very well established authors they have tried to engage the audience online instead by E books


however adaptations to the books are more popular I would say where's the general mass uh with the general public in a sense where , some some some of the some more uh less traditional people would rather sit through a


a more stimulate to a uh experience instead of just engaging, and and and reading a book so uh


the movie jaws for example is actually an adaptation from a book on and I would say most people are not aware that it actually was adapted from a book because


it's it's really hard to imagine how , how such a such good action movie can was first conjured through words words of a man eating great white shark and a lot of the iconic scenes in that movie uh


uh would would not have been possible if it was being translated in text so I would say that loosely interpreting this this question


, it is it is safe to say that uh physical physical books are, are becoming more obsolete because of because of because people have found better ways to uh immerse a an audience and a more well rounded experience that books are unable to provide


I think what you have said is is true can't deny it even though it's counter intuitive but as he where you coming from , but, you see I think


books even though they have their value, how many how many of how many youths are actually, frequently reading books nowadays and fast paced societies


, but when you're talking about online education you are talking about in education


where there is no engagement no physical engagement with teachers with your classmates and that is different from reading a book, you know you can't engage physically with a character in a book but you can do so in virtual reality for example which apparently is going to become


like an actual thing in twenty twenty three so, if if if you if you say that okay if if you view books as valuable you know the the very nostalgic kind why how


would how would you think that, uhuh, that students in singapore those studying in literature especially , do do you think


they do not seek for like, shortcuts in terms of unpacking a book today today relish in reading a book reading it multiple times for example instead of watching a film to better understand the book


uh watching a film because the book is simply too long and there is no time in such a fast paced society how how would you what what what do you think about that


yeah


I see I think when it comes to being obsolete it means that, fewer people and society are are choosing books over other mediums of storytelling uh which can be seen in present context because bookshops have been closing down


and and, many E books are emerging from amazon or yeah from Amazon for example so


so you say the so you looking at books as like both physical and and online lah


okay, , how do you how do you how do you feel the flipping through pages online though


like cause look because previously you said cause previously you said it it it see whole experience of of being offline right uh being offline of engaging with with words alone and and and using your imagination and feeling the pages


okay, okay so I think we can both agree that physical books, the books have physical books have reinvent itself so the stories uh stay on you know but just just just using a different platform to engage readers who


prefer the more convenient way , but whether films whether digital storytelling has has replaced books than that that that is where we would think that we has not reached the extent


is that right okay


part one debate topic one, part one debate topic one


okay so err, I can continue so for uh on the, oppositions then I feel like education should not only be concern with what is useful in life as with what you said


that err, education that is contribute to uh what is useful in life got to do with uh your CRP programme your community uh giving back to the society and actually all these are considered uh education that is


not only what is useful in life so I think some of the points might be the one that uh is under the opposition side I feel that uh some of these uh education, uh system some of these education system uh should not only uh be concerned with what is useful in life because education should


also be about uh targeting the unpredictable future so if we are only studying about what is useful in life for example, we are only studying a kind of uh engineering course like if I want to be a engineer in the future but nobody really knows what is going to happen in the future because the future is unpredictable


so education should be uh all rounded in this case it should be a all rounded uh facility to help to facilitate the the individual to be able to tackle problems in the unpredictable future because, he might not end up being a engineer he might end up being a maths teacher or


he might end up uh being an electrician or something that has nothing to do with engineering so if he only uses uh education to teach him uh life skill, that, is only something that he thinks it's useful in life then education in this case will have failed him


and, I feel that in the in the future many of the many of our own generation uh kids they do not know what they want so uh education in this uh system they should be studying in a whole array of subjects


or in a whole array of let's say like what you said uh character building even mathematics calculus or basic english uh mother tongue I feel that all these are all rounded uh and it helps to shapes uh individual to


be a a better person and it helps to shape the individual to be a better person so, this case it will help uh the student growing up to be a adult to be able to face, the different uh adversities in life and if he doesn't work out to be a english teacher he might end up venturing out selling uh to be a salesperson and he can use the techniques that he have been trained


on mother tongue you know calculus for his accounting books so, education should not only be, should not only be concern with what is only useful in life, ya, so err with this


I feel that like what you said uh for community involvement programme is, a point that uh is not only useful in life uh and it doesn't only come from education okay it can be coming over from uh the character building so ya this something I want to rebut on ya


okay so uh when, so when you mention about uh when you mention about like students growing up not knowing what they want to do and then about counting money you know all these so all


these are actually uh it's something that is not only education should not only be concerned with what's useful in life because I feel that education should also, be concerned about the way that children uh handles problems the way that uh children grow up to be a better individual


the way that students can grow up to be a different uh roles in life and the different processes that happens so we have to understand that education, we have to understand that uh education is a process it doesn't just stop at what is useful in life and like what you said like when we grew up to be a accountant we have our own uh we have to learn how to use math to count so that is something that is useful to you but


uh we have to think that this is a lifelong process so what is useful to somebody might not be useful to somebody else so when we are arguing that, uh education should not only be concerned with what is useful in life it should also include it should also include uh points such as like problem solving analytical thinking and


this entire process can help to shape the a student to be a better individual so if you only if education is only concerned with what is useful in life then that person might only have just one set of skills or two three sets of skills that only


uh help him in the future that can be applicable to his life but, he might not realise that the analytical thinking or problem solving ways are some of the important traits that are some of the important traits that education should include so I feel that in this case education should not only be concerned with what is useful in life but also


be uh concern in like the way that we shape individuals of their own personality of analytical thinking and problems, problem solving processes this are all equally important in shaping uh an individual than just what is useful in life


okay so when you said that uh education is also about uh character shaping character building and then you said, about being harmful uh if you don't have education is being harmful to the family I need to sum up the point that this is not very well answered because in this case education should


not only be concerned with what is useful in life because education should also be concerned, about character building so character building is important in this case because it's under opposition is under uh why I opposed to this statement education should not only be concerned with what is useful but we also should focus on character building


bringing out individuality okay students are able to provide their creativity so what is uh what is useful or not in the future it doesn't mean uh that the education in this case should be a stand alone point


of what is useful in life for them because education should also be a all rounded process so not only just the useful things in life but also teaching them the importance of character building teaching them the importance of creativity being able to express yourself


is why the basis of the reason I opposed to the statement of not only is what useful in life but also to be a better person, so if you want to be to grow up to be a better person a better individuality to be able to be nice to your family to be able to pay back to the society you will


have to oppose this ya okay,


okay one two three, part two debate topic two


okay so just to uh summarise your points you said that conformity, should be the main aim of all schools because it can help to reduce crime rates uh defiance since young


and then leading them to very being very effective citizens in the future, and then you also mention about rewarding system and qualifications and job seeking in the future and hence leading to a higher standard of living so I would feel that I need you to explain the point that what do you mean by a very effective uh citizens because


many kids can be effective in their own ways and hence, being able to be creative being able to make a path out of yourself is also a reason why I strongly feel that conformity should not be the main aim of all schools


children should be able to uh be innovative they should be able to be creative in their own ways and, uh being confirmed in a society or being confirmed in the way that the school rules teaches them to be is a main is a main uh is one of the main reasons why uh students do not dare to speak up or students do not dare to be creative and innovative in class


a lot of students are actually having a lot of uh questions like burning questions like who what why how and when there are many quote that also quote, uh that a burning uh child, very innovative questions is something that a wise man cannot answer because many of


uh creativity and innovation starts from young and they start from kids because how we confirm in school and follow rules and regulations what are the correct ways or not to behave or to behave in class, actually stops creativity and stops their kind of uh individual development


and hence many children do not have uh the courage to ask question they do not have the courage to go against the conformities they don't have the courage to put forth what, their thinking because they know that the teacher do not want children to be like noisy in class so in order to


in order to not just confirmed to what the teacher wants student, should be able to be taught how to be creative they should be taught how to express themselves they should be taught how to go against to go against


questions and theories and the things that teacher says in class in a way that you can shape the individual to have a little bit more of analytical thinking that is important about all these burning questions that children have when they're growing up


so being able to have innovative uh to be had innovative sharing in classes and not just a conformity does help to shape the student, to be a better individual and hence it can also be a very effective citizen in the future


so err I would like to mention oh okay so is about ya is about time


okay so you mentioned that uh conformity is yes the adhere to a standard set of rules regulations and certain code of conduct and discipline have to be uh, have to be used in school such as uh the fire extinguisher etcetera so but I feel that conformity I strongly feel that conformity should not just only be the main aim of all schools because


if you make conformity the main aim of all schools many of the children are brought up to just only to follow rules, because when you only bring up students as the main aims to follow rules and regulations and the conduct of codes that they should be you will be creating it will be like a system of meritocracy so being a meritocracy system is


like they will be awarded based on how well their uh results are, they will be base reward based on how well they behave in class such as the top student in class or, the top five best improving awards for kids in school so all these conformity in school and not uh and being the main aim


being the main aim of all schools that they asked students to confirm can also kills can also kill many of the innovation and the creativity, or even a part of their character development, so maybe let's for state a example of this child he might not be able to sit still in a classroom for a whole five hours but because he has to confirm to the classroom set of rules he has to sit down and being able to listen to the teacher for five hours in the class


and this case he might be somebody that is uh character uh developing a character based on just what the teacher is saying just what the schools want the kids to learn he might be somebody that is a is a a burning uh a passion about


art or he can be somebody that is , a very defiance and he has his own ways of at own way of thinking that he might go against the teacher so because of the conformity that he has, his character development might not be able to go the other way and we know many of these talent and kids that


, are nowadays all the renowned artists such as uh mozart being able to play music when he's young I'm sure that, he did not learn all these just based on conformities in school so yes


schools should have a certain code of conduct and discipline but it should not be the main aim of all schools and being be having a meritocracy education system in schools it tends to kill uh innovation and character development such as


uh your CCA do you excel in your CCA but it doesn't matter because you don't get a good great for your english and your science so enhance you don't conform to what the society and what the school wants you to do and then you are hence labelled as a bad student in school yeah


okay so when you talk about conformity in companies that could only I feel that that could work in society more compared to being the main aim of all schools


I'm not fighting that conformity is not important in schools but it should not be the main aim of all schools I feel that character building is just as important being able to be creative and being able to express individuality should be


also as important as conformity of all schools so if children were to just follow conformities in the school there will probably be just a society churning out like robots, to conform to what the society wants and to be able to adhere to the set of rules and regulations and hence it should not only be the main aim of all schools schools should be able to express themselves and be able to allow students to have their own character


development so as to contribute to the society in the future in their own ways ya


part three debate topic three


okay so you mentioned about the point of having uh having a lot of, uh technology advancement that have been able to save time in commuting and the availability of uh education at home is also vastly uh it's also uh greatly available everywhere and then they should and they could be because


and also because of the pandemic situation bullying cases in schools are also on the rise and hence most people should be educated from home, however I strongly believe that education from home have also their own cons


you mentioned about the point where uh it's actually quite cheap to be able to use uh technology and innovation to teach children at home however, the lack of resources or the lack of appropriate school resources are also one of is one of the main points students should not be educated from home


because in schools teachers are actually using a lot of technology and they have their uh own school systems they have , uh their own kind of uh a school system and they can log into and are only available to like for instance singapore ministry of education uh web portals that only the school teachers know and are able to access and these are


some of the more useful materials that parents will not be able to access to at home, and then being having a lack of resources might also cause the children to not be able to study the topics or the education system well because of the disadvantage that they are at because they're studying from home


and another way of uh another point that I think it's really important that students should be educated in schools because of socialising, is a very important point for kids to be able to socialise and mix with their own peers of their own uh age group because this actually brings out character development in the in the child themselves because they have to know how to mix around


in schools and hence in workplace in the workforce in the future it can impact them uh in the long run, and studies have shown that children that are educated at home they generally do not have as much friends of their own age group compared to kids that are uh educated at home kids that are educated in school they generally have more friends


a wider social life a wider social group of children of their own age and being able to mingle around and it really helps them to speak up and uh it shapes their character to be uh able to communicate with uh more children of their own age group


and the last point is that being able to educate yourself from home is a good is a is a one of the good ways however it, reoccurs in the change of a entire environment uh parents have to usually take a off days or they have to rearrange their entire work schedule which some parents


just cannot afford when you have to educate your child at home it also means that you have to allocate a huge amount of time that they do not have to spare and they have to use the extra amount of few hours every day to educate their child from home and hence it can be a complete change of environment and


family uh social circle ya so it can be a huge, uh disadvantage to children that, are educated from home


okay so you mentioned about, oh, so you mention about being able to forge closer bonds with families and siblings and being uh the hundred and fifty days of time spent in school that is only on studying can actually be rebutted with the point that is not just about studying it's


also about character development in the way that they interact with other kids, of their own age group I think that that is equally as important because you will not have the opportunity to be able to form your own uh groups in, class to be able to work on analytical thinking or group solving projects and these are all important character development skills that cannot be developed at home because you do not have a class of peers that you will be able to reach out to and


also their own uh group or cliques to form like your uh best friends or like some of the kindness and some of the closest friendships that are forged are usually, come coming from your classroom or from schools that you go to and you


see uh classmates that you see every day, and also to back on the point that people most nowadays should not be educated from home it's because of uh students not having uh the not being able to have


award ceremonies are not being able to be uh met are not able to have the sense of achievement that a normal child should be able to uh get because they participate in competitions they participate in many of the different uh races or competitions that they have in school and this helps


to keep the student from being more determined and to help them to, shape them to be more diligent and to be able to, uh able to work hard for something that they want and not just forms uh and not just be able to be complacent in their work because if they were to study from their home to be school by their mum some of them are actually having to play two roles of a teacher and a mum at the same time


so in this case some of the child might not be able to tell the difference or they might not be they might be more complacent when they're studying at home versus when they have the pressure, or they have the schools uh they have their own goals that that are set by their schools or by their teachers by their peers they will be able to achieve greater uh academically wise and many of them are able to have a more


wholesome enrichment programmes in terms of sports and character development, ya


okay so you mentioned about the point of uh bullying so having cliques may or may not cause bullying can be one of the issues that the schools should be able to reach out to


but what I'm focusing on here is that these hands on activities that schools create like such as group projects or art or being able to create things of their own and personal interaction all these cannot be done over a computer


let's say technology advancement be it like we can have zoom meetings or we can have school sessions or parents are able to conduct everything online, however all these human interaction are not uh hands on there are not in face to face we are not able to uh replace this sense of human touch just base on computers and based on internet


so all these uh area of character development of how a person would react or how a person can make friends face to face be it , in the future when the kid grow up to having to interact with their colleagues or their bosses it actually starts from young so oh finish okay


part one debate topic one


okay so now we're talking about the topic of education should only be concern with what is useful in life so firstly


how do we define useful uh first I think one of the main things uh of being useful as how a particular individual is able to contribute to society, so by contributing to society there are many different ways but I'll just break it down into two main points uh one way is to contribute back to the society in a form of paid work


meaning either you are an employer or an employee working to contribute back to the society, so this paid work can come in any type let's say if you are working in the humanities and arts section science business engineering design and architecture even if it depending on any kind of industry


as long as you are paid to do a job you will be contributing back to the society even when you are a sole proprietor uh or you start up a company you are also contributing back to the society uh making the society a better place so this is the first part of contributing to society which is paid work


another way of contributing back to society uh is voluntary work so, voluntary work in as you in today's education it's all about we have programmes such as value in action as well as community involvement programme


where uh students are have curriculum outside of outside of their curriculum to help in terms of uh, cooking packing even teaching the people who are in need as well as giving back to the community so by having this kind of contribution back to the society it also helps to


form a kind of compassion in terms of the particular individuals character building so uh this is my part


so just now you mention that there are things like , children don't really know uh what they want in terms of uh what they want to do in the future which also makes them useful in life and contribute back to the society


I think this is exactly the point where we feel that we have to give them a certain kind of general curriculum to to really give them, an increase knowledge of what they need to know in general so when for us when we are younger children we don't see the need of having math we don't see the need of


learning mother tongue english and even science, but now as an adult the fact that we are sitting here having a proper debate with each other all these stems from us having a proper education, in life so for us as a child we don't really know uh what is useful for us but when adults and when educators give us a certain general curriculum whether we like it or not somehow we benefit in a certain way and it allows us to have better


conversation and communication with other people not only that in terms of work wise when we are working in a, group where we have a proper way of communicating with our fellow peers we can also come out stronger as a team as well as uh building up on teamwork and in that case as a whole it will also help in the company in a sense uh of helping


the company to grow and with that it will also help to contribute back to society so education is really important and somehow I feel that having a general curriculum given to younger kids who do not know what they want in life is really important because


when you expose them to things that they don't know is important to them, in the future they will think that , uh essentially applicable even for things like math there are so many people who hate math but, day to day even when we count our salary when we count rosters when we look at what time the bus is coming what time are we meeting we all wait we are constantly using math


so that is something that is really important that has been placed in the education system, and in daily life even if, uh we turned out to be salesman or we turned out to be any kind of occupation you are using it, when even when you are going to the cafe to purchase an item so that's one and in terms of unpredictable future I feel that the education system has also come up with that as well so in terms of


being in schools where they have things like fire drills so fire drills is a very simple example of uh having, having kids educated about the fact that things are unpredictable that's why you have things like yearly fire drill or and then people will conduct this this uh situations to to give them a sense that


everything is not , what you want it to be and it can always it will it may not go the way you want it to be so these are the two points that I'll like to address


so in terms of addressing your your point of


problem solving problem solving it's something that uh we do a lot in basically just one subject math so with math there are constantly problem solving questions for students to really, engage a critical thinking in them and for analytical thinking there actually different programmes in the education system


such as in NUS I think they have the A star uh uh system uh we've also got IP programme integrated programme for students to help them to uh better uh be on track in terms of their analytical thinking


uh we've also got special schools such as assumption pathway, for people with different progresses in terms of uh they are academic progress, and you know the education system system is really quite holistic after primary school level even for students who think that they want to be an athlete in future they already have a certain goal in mind we have things like sports school


so all these are actually new avenues for them to really come out of their creativity so, when they know what they want to do in future in polytechnic we've also got very specific courses for them to really


learn and hone their skills and interests to help them be a better person so that when they graduate from, the schools they will be able to do well and contribute back to the society so education is also important uh it it should only be concern for what is useful in life because


if it's not if education is should not be only concerned with what is useful in life people may end up doing things like harming the society harming the family or even harming themselves so this is really important because


when you have a certain system in the education in the education system you are practising conformity so, people are more likely to follow rules and when people don't really follow this education system uh there will be more likely to have an increase in crime


and people breaking the laws in terms of family wise when there's no proper like what you said character building it can cost things like domestic violence as well and on a personal level where we don't have proper education


to be for what is useful in life people just do whatever they want and they don't try to tell you the, uh what are the what are the bad things off let's say drugs smoking or drinking people will just go for it and


have an addiction so the reason why I think that being in singapore there are no very little people using drugs is also because of this concern education and all these were really ultimately determine whether we are useful or not in life


okay


okay , part, two debate topic two


okay so now I will talk about the second topic of conformity should be the main aim of all schools before I begin allow me to define the meaning of conformity conformity refers to compliance with standards rules or laws


by having conformity in all schools it's actually very important because by having conformity in all schools it really helps people to have in a sense having a societal


uh norm and having a, peaceful society and relationship this this is because when children are young when you teach them a certain code of conduct and a certain skill set of school rules, and they conform to this they are more likely to uh confirm into societal rules and laws in future so this also helps to reduce the criminal rate in future


because a lot a lot of crimes like we said, we will be able to see defiance since young and a lot of , negativity by students uh when they don't conform to rules so in order to instill discipline in students we have to get them to conform because this objective for education


will help to mould the students into very effective citizens in future the schools cannot do without a code of conduct and uh and students they they cannot do without a code of conduct and that students are they really have to expect be expected to observe


so in this case when we have the students to conform, in a way that will they will be rewarded by having a certain qualifications by qualifications we will have things like PSLE O level A level N level and then university


degrees so when you are rewarded with these degrees you will have the qualifications to do jobs in this case it will also help you to have a standard a higher standard of living in future so these are the two main uh things that I would like to highlight


okay so uh you mentioned that by having conformity children will not be creative and be innovative in class that's not necessarily the case


because in schools we have a lot of ways for students to really express their creativity so by me saying that conformity should be the main aim of all schools, I'm talking more about not breaking the rules and having a certain code of conduct in schools so this really means in terms of having discipline so for things like fire extinguisher


uh you are not supposed to use the fire extinguisher and you will have to conform to this school rules, if you are not supposed to you know be be in school late this are the school rules and these are things that you really have to conform to because if you choose not to conform to these rules all these will reflect and it will translate out to your daily lives not only just for family and friends meetings


by being late in schools and you don't conform from when you were young in future when we have things like important meetings it will turn out to be a habit and this habit will, will really become a way of a bad character for yourself and it doesn't reflect well on you which is also why I said that from the start I define conformity it is to adhere to a standard set of rules


and laws so back to the topic where you mention that conformity don't allow students to be creative and create a path out of themselves, and it does not allow them to be innovative in class uh I would like to beg to differ with that uh because in schools there are a lot of different avenues for them there are things like the debate session uh where students are allowed to go


in groups of three and three and they can really express their set themselves freely, and really have a good talk with each other and understand each point uh each other's point of view we've also got very innovative classes such as


creative thinking classes where we used to not have that before and now we have this, and we also have a lot of teachers to encourage the students to ask questions in class so this is also another way for them to express themselves


instead of just listening to whatever the the educators have in the curriculum we also encourage them to ask questions and if they think that they don't understand they are always free to really questioned the system and question whatever is in the curriculum so it does not mean that we really block them out in terms of their creativity


like I said before we've also we also have things like art art classes, we've also got a lot of leadership camps for people to really express themselves not only creativity wise uh but in terms of leadership wise, so all these are avenues where we allow students to really give them uh ways to improve themselves and be more innovative


so that's about it


alright so I just like to address , the two main issues uh that you talked about


which is how you mentioned that, students uh should not just uh follow rules if they follow rules then they lose all sense of creativity and you know they are uh renown and famous artists and things like that but if we look on the flip side of the coin


let's say if this student we just allow him to , not conform to the rules and we allow him to instead of uh like what you said asked him to sit in class for five hours you just let him uh run free he will have the intent he will have that thought that okay he will be able to do whatever he does so


let's say that's fine just for that not sitting in class for five hours that's fine but let's say what if what if you are talking about more serious issues such as individual difference what if this child he, he has his own thinking of other people of different races and we don't in you know especially in singapore we are such a multicultural setting we really have to educate everyone


that even though we are we are all of different race and culture it's it's a actually a unique individual differences and we all have to come together as one to be multicultural, so the thing is with if we allow everyone to not conform and really just think about themselves uh in terms of


what they stand up for it really can cause serious consequences in future, it might not be uh obvious at the start but the thing is let's say when there is a spark it really will turn into something serious such as racism or riots and things like that so this is just for the first point


and for second point you know by following rules and being uh and conforming to people to by conforming to rules is really really important let me quote you one example for example in Singapore Airlines, we have uh Singapore Airlines have nine thousand employees if we have people not conforming to a certain standard there will be


no way an airline like that will be the first in the world because there will be a certain set of rules that the company requires that employees to perform let's say if I ask you to serve a tray in this way and if you don't do it that way even


there will be no consistency and in a way when things like that happen it causes complaints, and people will no longer come to uh Singapore Airlines because there's no consistency and there is no standard so by having conformity it really gives a minimum kind of a minimum standard and when you have better


uh when you have conformity you have better teamwork and the outcomes at work is better it allows the company to be more competitive in the global economy and it also helps the that society to grow in general so these are my thoughts


part three debate topic three


okay so now we will talk about the third topic, which is most people's these days could and should be educated at home let me break this statement into two parts uh why most people these days could be educated at home so this is basically due to three main reasons because of recent technology advancements


as compared to thirty years ago and now uh were internet was not existent now we have not we now we not only have internet we have things like google we've got app store play store, we've even got things like zoom for screen sharing purposes and it really helps


to connect people closer together in terms of the tutors or general knowledge to the students we've also got things like YouTube, uh where we have enrichment classes online we've even got language classes we've also got things as child friendly as one or two years old for them to really learn their alphabets uh we've also got five G coming soon


this is the first one second one we also have cheaper cost uh technology nowadays is getting cheaper uh it's also cheaper to have a zoom session online, and it really helps people to save time when it when it comes to commuting in order for you to get to a school that you really want sometimes it the commute takes one to two hours and both ways you can go up to two to four hours


thirdly we're talking about the availability of technology advancements so now in third world countries such as philippines vietnam bangladesh uh cambodia etcetera we, see that there is actually a growth in terms of the availability of internet for even third world countries not mentioning cities like singapore


so with these it really allows an outreach for them without the need for them to be to study in singapore uh to study uh in schools they can really with an internet they will also be able to study at home


so this is why I think that most people these days could be educated at home now I'll quickly highlight why most people these days should be educated at home, one of the reasons why uh people should be educated at home is because of the school environment sometimes when you're provided with an environment it doesn't necessarily mean that it would be a good one


there are things like bullying going on and for children it can be very very detrimental to them in terms of their emotional uh factor sometimes by having uh by bullying uh by being exposed to bullying at an early age it really caused them


to have things like depression or have a lower self esteem these were really uh impact them negatively in life, also due to this pandemic now these days uh like uh, the future it's really unpredictable you know sometimes uh when it comes to health and safety concern uh it's really better uh especially in lieu of this COVID nineteen for people to be home schooled because by being more being exposed to uh more people and more students


you are actually exposing yourself to on the possibility of being infected, okay ah that's about it


okay so I'll just like to highlight the two points that you have mentioned uh firstly you mention that uh in the school system uh especially in singapore such as MOE they only have only only the public schools will have access to the


materials and uh if you are not home school home schooled you will not have access to these materials I'll like to back to defer to that because there are actually a lot of textbooks that you can purchase uh from the, the from the bookstores and not this is just to debunk the first point however how do you know that the particular school system or the particular curriculum that MOE has provide is actually the most suitable one for the child


you will not know because this is a generalised uh curriculum across the board for all students especially on the primary primary level, and by being home schooled it really is important because it it really should be the way because the parents are the ones who brought them up and they really know what are what kind of curriculum and what are their


their strengths and weaknesses and they can really work on them directly with a better allocation of time and so this is the first one that I would like to talk about and secondly you mentioned about socialising, you mentioned that by social by beings uh by going to schools and having being able to socialise with children it will help them in their character development however I'd like to beg to differ with that research has shown that


in one year students actually are in school in classes for hundred and fifty days, every year so this is a lot of time spent studying and when you spend all this time studying in school you are spending the same amount of time away from your family so this is the reason why a lot of people


teenagers especially are closer to their own friends rather their own family and siblings, this is a a serious uh societal issue and social issue that has been on growing since uh uh ten years ago so by being exposed to the idea of having home school and studying and being educated at home


they effectively have more time to spend with their family and their siblings which is actually the most important people to them in life, and they will be able to have quality time with them as well and after that when they have already spent time studying and


and being at home with their family they can actually engage in extra curricular activities outside such as let's say church or any sports and things like that they will still be able to engage in character building and socialising


that's it


so uh you mentioned that they will have a wholesome character development wholesome curriculum I think this eh this can also be done by , by by this as this can also be done at home because uh as


the years go by from now compared to twenty and thirty years ago parents are more and more educated parents know not only know parents not only know what their children wants and needs and their strengths and weaknesses parents are more educated they have the ability to make


informed decisions they can also have a proper curriculum there are so many curriculum across the world such as united states UK australia wherever wherever there are and all these curriculum actually include uh group


group work project works and these curriculum are are are done online as well so when you say that is more holistic I will like to beg to differ because it's also the same setting is just that now, instead of people and students having to follow one straight curriculum


that is offered in their country the parents actually now have the freedom of will uh the freedom to really find out which curriculum that is offered across the world and it will really fit well with their children and this curriculum also afford offers


awards and certificates after the the end of graduation and we also have, the curriculum also includes physical education's and things like that so all these are actually very very holistic and not only that it really helps to eliminate like what you said uh socialising is very important and you need to interact with people


like you said uh interaction comes with pros and cons some people handle it uh some people uh have good interaction some people don't, as I mentioned before when you form things like cliques and group this is this may sound like a good thing but it's actually not because what if you are not a part of that clique and what if this clique decides to


act against that one individual and this will be, this will cause bullying so in a way you are not just causing a self esteem and bullying and depression issue for the person being bullied you are also creating a bully at the same time so this is not what we want the society in future so uh this is my point


ya okay K, okay err with regards to the debate topic topic there is uh there is no such thing as bad art so for me sure there are lots of people that argued there is good art and there is bad art coming from someone who always appreciating and criticizing art right


it definitely must come across as ironic but the more one reads about art, art history and the origin of various , , art movements you will realize that the definition of bad art has always uh never been fixed it has changed all over the years just as our idea of art itself has changed


okay, it is not the nature of any art or content that is bad but is the intention and the only thing that, bad art, is art that is, imitative


art that does not add to our understanding of society or the world or our even our, perspective in art history there exist quite a number of multiple stories like examples where some of the artist that we actually considered great today were actually being rejected during their time and date and their time a few examples where Courbet started painting err ordinary men and woman


eh he was quite shocked and disgust the, Paris crowd uh this was actually happened in uh eighteen fifty-five which is uh pavilion of realism exhibition where he had actually set up independently after being rejected by the salon used to seeing paintings of


err royalty on such very big canvasses the very idea a notion of painting normal people on large canvas right seems especially vulgar to the people during that period of time the attitude uh #claude monet# the pioneering uh in perishing


, uh artist actually broke the mould of painting nature and landscape using the short brushed scope, this actually didn't fare well during uh, his time with the critics and the members of the public and was definitely being criticised very heavily


and vincent #van gogh# the famous one-eared uh artist, in the his entire lifetime has only sold one single, painting so , actually the there are still a lot of uh people inside the list including like uh jonas who had to borrow money to sustain his families


edward was being rejected for his olympia and there's quite a number of all others they had actually receive uh rejection all during their lifetime so, (ppc) there is


no such thing as uh bad art definitely, err there is great art, (ppc) the distinction lying based on how one actually responses to it on an intellectual or physical plane taste appreciation and valuation are also a matter of uh


sug subjective , uh anything that isn't great or miracle shouldn't be mislabelled as art but mainly, mere spectacle, so art first and foremost is


an expression and thus can never ever be regarded as bad unless of course you run a dictatorship where self-expression is being deployed correct, however I truly do believe that there is a difference between art in the form of quality


ya okay ah true true truly just like having a regular job many many artists are just lazy they do what is just quick and natural to them and do as little as possible but I guess it sometimes will take up for another person who actually


how should I say err, for an artist to call another artist, furthermore I would also mention that the established artists uh that had not been preserved has been preserved by the wealthy


upper class uh who may or who may not know about it, correct so, all in all right err I believe that the answer is quite clear global reserve has created an ultra highly competitive and more sophisticated market those that


who actually prefer the aimless splattering of pollock just uh don't say it, quite a number of uh users, just like the artist ah for for example uh


pollockhe was just a drunk and lazy artist uh splattering plane as quick quickly as possible before the deadline, just, getting done at those kind of attitude while this may appeals all those rich people


it doesn't mark me as a good or maybe just very good marketing or coming from his wife, so, did they get there on talent alone or is, just popular or something


all in all I don't think art is just a simple thing to judge as it is to, to life ah , that's why I think I just ended my uh argument with regards to this


actually I got no view to add on to ya, ya I actually don't, don't have any uh else with regards to this but


so sorry <P2>lee ting</P2> ah, hello ya ah is it possible to pause for a while, ya correct uh


but art it in itself is, actually towards more subjective because from what I can see right if, okay for for art itself I I believe it can be very subjective because number one if


what I can see it as a good art can be appearing as a bad art to you so for example ah music are also a kind of art so all those kind of musics that I like like for example if I were to like uh heavy metal rock all these but you prefer classical so definitely you will think that


the rock and heavy metal kind of musics they are, very bad, correct should err do you agree with me


how d'you how do you define bad art


why why do you say so because there are paintings that over years back years back you said is the norm for them to drawing nude uh nude portraits uh all this has uh, exhibition setting out art gallery but how come up to this generation the the people will be taking it has err how should I say


bad art as you were to say it, I I actually I don't, don't see there is a point with regards to, because that number one you have as you were saying that


having nude pictures all these they are teaching the younger generation bad stuff but how how is it teaching them err bad stuff instead, can you elaborate more towards


different views of art for since since you are saying about the oriental from the eastern side right I believe there are some famous artists that means out out of my mind right, I still can't, actually (hmm) there's a actually a japanese uh artist that portrays ladies lying on the bed uh during bondage but


labeled as a art his, his drawings all these are of very high value but somehow, he's still uh he's still from a err eastern side, part of the eastern atmosphere so I


are you saying that, your thinking is more towards the, boomers kind of, age gap that means around fifty, fifty over years old and above because that can be considered as uh more towards the senior citizens already


there shouldn't be any bad art because, if it's, there is a term such as the art right I, I can believe that it's uh being misinterpreted, because there are


because there are many things that got to do with bad art all this etcetera and another thing point to note is that for bad art right, it's really really subjective, just like the for the previous uh example that I had already risen right uh for


for you considered bad art but for me it's considered as a very good art, I I don't think, it can be elaborated further uh moving ahead ah unless we were to change the thinking towards why


how it actually works, correct <P2>angie</P2> (mmhmm)


I think <P2>angie</P2> encountered some issues right, !ugh!, ah okay so


actually <P2>li ting</P2> uh could we start on the next uh topic


okay with regards to the singaporeans appreciate the appeal of theatre dance or music in our society right I would actually like to debunk this err, notion that a lot of


especially the older, older generation that thinks that singaporeans actually don't don't appreciate theatre dance or musics lah, so number one, singaporeans has no creativity so who whoever said that has obviously never made much of an effort to venture out of the concrete jungle in


uh singapore itself so for for example err there there are quite a there are a lot of pieces right err around in the especially in the orchard area is the work of the, of a bad a a collective of doodles right called a band of doodles that means they're doing graffitis all these uh drawings all these and in fact there's also at


a group of uh women, dedicated and growing the street art scene in singapore ya you correct err so, they are called ah rebel daughters err is uh, all female graffiti movement up there to prove their street credentials drawings all this


so for the other part singaporean kids only know how to study, correct so when you actually think of a singaporean kids stressed out students cramming for examinations like in japan or korea so while trying to keep their sanity in check


would be the first thing that comes to mind but anyone who makes their association , actually haven't met some some of the much more talented youngsters uh let's say for example


err twenty, currently twenty-three years old uh <P2>manfred lim</P2> a self-taught EDM producer who actually started by experiential by going experience ah experiment on his home computer his efforts actually paid off when he scored a record deal from err


A list international DJ called uh diplo who had actually collaborated with some of the music's biggest names like madonna and justin uh bieber but there's, but err with regards to this err there's actually


a lot of uh venues that singapore is actually trying trying to help out err for example like noise singapore they are actually providing uh mentorship programs err for the, feeding artists and musicians uh for the thirty five years old and and below lah


so uh, another thing is that err for the, art is only for those that are unable to


study lah so only those who can't study will pursue the arts, but, if you were to tell your friends your, if you were to tell for example if you will if you were to tell your parents that your


friend is an artist and odds that they're, going to assume that my fellow friend is a school drop-out who's who's either freelancing their way through their life with no financial security all this err


, so, contrary to popular belief right actually many artists right they actually outsmart us err in school take for example ah adrian Pang and ivan Heng both of them they actually graduated with law degree but in the end they


decided to ditch the courtroom uh, didn't continue to get get the bar to pursue a, career in the theatre so uh adrian and ivan however are aren't the only ones who enjoyed great careers the verse uh majority of the lasalle graduates uh managed to secure jobs and their median starting salary is around


two thousand five hundred so that's actually comparable to the grads from coming from NTU, and even the NUS, and let's get this right, uh another young singaporean artist ruben Pang has actually exhibited and performed in multiple museums such as singapore art museum lasalle college of the arts


uh and project space the substation, at the age of twenty five not only has he been recognized for his works with many different awards but he also had also sell uh some of his works at prices ranging between five thousand to eighteen thousands so if


jobs perspective are hindering you from chasing your artistics ambitions right definitely rest assured that a career in, the arts isn't as big as what some of the critics are making it up to be lah


so uh <P2>angie</P2> were, uh anything else


sorry I I don't get get what what you meant, can you elaborate more towards it so I can make a statement


err I I think you should read the yes arts are irrelevant to the original


I I definitely don't agree ah but uh, and another point to note


okay as she was saying previously right you said that local singaporeans actually cannot compare to the other international artistes so local artists actually right, you tell that to gentle bones who actually bought top international artists like jessie J uh girls generation which is also a korean band to to the number one spot on iTunes on four separate occasions how about err


who catch a top spot, on Spotify's uh US viral fifty playlist, so not only are our, all no homegrown talents are they are actually winning in life they are also doing us proud by holding


their own against the the various top international acts the most recently conclude actually the sing jazz uh festival also saw local talents like uh duke Chen charlie Lim actually share the same stage as Grammy award winning artists


joss stone and, for filmmakers, can't go further than YouTube right especially in in singapore this err what I can say that


you can actually go over to objectifs right housed in a bright yellow building


uh in a stone throw away from #bras basah# MRT station they actually promotes uh local films by offering free screening to the publics lah so we we can actually see that , people are actually trying to


there are singapore singaporeans out there actually trying to, uh guide and actually do appreciate the appeal of the theatre uh dance or music in our pure society


so , and another thing another point to note is that err since, I believe that there are also people saying that nobody goes for art events in singapore so


obviously they previously they never, , witness the massive turnout over at the singapore night festival a whopping six hundred K art , uh art lovers actually visited singapore night time arts spectacular in two zero one five


so it's actually compared to the previous years right err there's actually an increase of hundred thousand from the previous previous years uh are debunking the stereotype that us singaporeans only know how to work sleep and shop only that means


these are the three basic core value of us singaporeans lah


I think, okay lah, for for these right but there is one, you from from what I, heard from you right normally you will be taking a round one I was doing my period of time lah when I'm still in school but


you've said that government is too boring so for example uh let let me bring back to some of the oldest days back so that means uh back to the time of around two zero one five two zero one six I believe that uh you don't know that the singapore rail railroad the #tanjong pagar# rail railway station right so


it actually happened on the twenty fifth of march two zero one six singapore land, authority SLA had actually partnered up with the local people to convert #tanjong pagar# railway station into a up-market, so uh


for this market right, uh is actually, will bring you back in time to the good old nineties right, uh so, ya so if you were to say that singapore government is actually not not actually trying to support the arts right err I I don't think so truly and another point to note is that err not not to be totally outdone by SLA right singapore uh the national arts council they had also got organize events


so cool that even some of the how should I say hardcore hipster would also be impressed so uh you can actually go go and see from the, previous calendars that on the first and second april of two zero one six and two zero one seven


uh, there will be performers and live art in the heart of the entertainment belt along the singapore river so all in all singapore art scene is always well and alive, so I


I don't think it's fair for you to say that uh we, the singaporeans don't actually appreciate the appeal of the, theatre dance or music in our society


so err actually ah does this actually err , answer to your questions just now you had provide uh questioned me with


I I I don't think it's not all of the singaporeans who actually don't don't don't appreciate,


okay so err with regards to the topic uh the arts are a luxury and not an necessity right I truly believe that


it is actually quite true lah but art has almost always been for the privileged , this is not however equal to saying that only the privilege can enjoy or create art itself, what


it is saying it right it is actually that the privilege that actively pursue the arts be it has a career or a uh hobby with significantly less concern for their livelihood, so if you are able to, pay to study the arts you are very fortunate


even if you struggled to do so if you can survive without drastically affecting the subset standard of your loved ones right and myself while trying to build up, building myself err a name in the arts world right is definitely very fortunate art has actually no direct effect on survivor it actually affects the quality of life ya


although right many for many that's quite arguable right but it's actually not survival itself no one has ever died from uh, pacific act of luck


many have died pennilessly pursuing arts however because historically it was a continual, and for a very long time right, it is actually a impractical dream for many people for for a very good reason


art, can actually put food on the table but only when you already have some of the food on the table itself, correct so, can also bring joy, can bring meaning and uh wealth


what art also raise questions, , bring bring communities all together and can instead useful debate or solve problems it is definitely a career worth pursuing but


it will be quite arrogant to deny that for many paying for art is a luxury be it for entertainment, collection or even business lah, K <P2>angie</P2> what


do do you agree with it


, I can actually quote a off quote dialogue uh for the, , okay the quote


dialogue from, nineteen eighty nine uh dead poets society they can actually says that we read and write poetry because we are members of the human race and the human race is always filled with passion


and medicine law business engineering these are, noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life but poetry, beauty romance love these are what we stay alive for, and this actually makes a point is that art is actually important but it is not at uh very essential


okay so although this this is true but the intangible, concepts of poetry beauty romance and love are, not jobs, poetry cannot be simplified define as one that is written only by an artist because not only is there poetry in every single aspect of our life the very nature of poetry itself is also very subjective


similarly much like beauty romance and love has the code itself actually affirms one simply needs to be part of the human race to experiencing that in everyday life


it is uh, also indeed ironic that without an artist for example , creating infographics charts all these


during presentation right wouldn't have been made the way it was, watch actually uh important to note however is that it could still have been done but it wouldn't be look


it wouldn't look as uh aesthetically pleasing or as easy to read but being nicer or easier to look, at it is not essential, again I would like to say that it's actually a bonus to it, it is also


entirely understandable that people with the arts has a career of someone who actually uh actively partake in the arts are displeased or, even enriched by


what I said just now but it actually implies that the majority of singaporeans are , actually still don't view art as a viable career lah


and, may also greatly discourage uh creative people trying to searching for another job after being let go or as well as graduates seeking a job in the arts industry even for the first time


especially for right now err during the circumstances of the global health crisis, are we really going to lay blame on the society for not uh deeming art as something worth paying for especially for the time right now


if it is so, should a average person be prioritising paying for medical care food shelter convenience basic uh stuff over the beauty of arts


is it not understandable that business in those categories would trust have money and resources to hire job seekers and that the willingness to pay for creative output across all variety of business would dramatically decline


this is not not to say art doesn't actually help the human condition during a crisis but not everyone has the time and means to tirelessly create or pay for it


it is, definitely upsetting that even in, ecom during when the economic is healthy right a career


in the arts, is already subjected to rockiness and that freelance artist often uh struggle with unethical clients due to the legitimacy of their work being called into the question


and this is actually a battle that the artist has long fought for the right to be respected and taken seriously lah so in my own opinion right as I just raised quite a few points especially with the


, in singapore society art is actually a luxury and not a, need ah so


I believe that, the, not a average person right that is of same, same thinkings all this would actually prioritising purchasing over the beauty of art would


go over, to like err, to spend more on art instead of medical care food shelter and convenience especially during this kind of COVID nineteen uh crisis and going to be captive uh


just like the circuit breaker phase two period lah


you know ah that definitely so for, us it's definitely a luxury so for example there is a new blockbuster movie coming out in nearby cinema, during this period of time will you be spending money to go over to a cinema to watch it


but that that is not not towards the a single person opinion but as a whole of the society has as we we can see the entertainment uh, night shift nightlife scene all this has


has actually went all the way down and especially for the singers all this they actually lost their job so, in singapore society I can truly say that arts are actually a luxury so that that's why there are a lot of bistro they are not actually operating is because


number one they don't think the singers, are a need so that's why, they are temporary being let go, so all and the other point to note is that the singapore government if it's, a need right, definitely


the entertainment, err sector right would definitely be in the top priority but seems like singapore singapore government actually place it at the bottom spectra of the uh permit itself based on the err based on the importance of the


circumstances especially with the current situation global health uh crisis happening right right now all over the world even uh I can say that truly, not only in singapore I meant uh throughout


all over the world most most of us actually view, I do feel that, every every single one are are actually felt that it's actually a luxury and not a need for it , but I too


I agree with you that the, arts, actually help out quite a lot uh especially with the uh #michelangelo#'s err drawings all these that means err


due to the anatomy the drawings of the human bodies all these sections uh and advancement in the, err medical scene all these but for right now


to the society I don't think actually it matters quite a lot


so but but actually if that's the case right can I truly say that it's a need for you so no matter if you got for example hundred million, and you can buy that painting for hundred million that is your whole net worth will you be selling your entire house and everything for that


but it if that's the case right I I do if that's the case that means you do actually, support my uh topic that the arts are actually a luxury but and not a necessity, because (ppc)


ya correct


okay if for, so for for example err if that's the case you felt right it is a need for you right how far


to me I think there is a bad, art, yes the fact there are artistic appreciation is subjective is a separate consideration you can like or not like bad things of course there is a bad art there it there's piles and heaps and mountains of bad