you will tend to imagine the character in a certain way and how how the character looks like I'm sure when everyone reads a book there, their , how they portray the character in their mind is different from everyone else but you once you watched a movie you can't you can't say like I mean that that is who the actress is acting out you you definitely won't think of the character as another person anymore


and you know you can say that reading is actually a luxury and it it can be what other say it's a expensive, I would you said luxury right


but I think like compared to the other pastimes they are definitely isn't as much benefit as as reading


and you know there has to be a reason why there has to be a reason why books are adapted and movies are adapted from books but very few books are adapted from from movies you know


like, , , okay ah like ,


wait ah


okay K I think as long as you read like the more you read the more you will learn and even if you don't read in chinese can you still read english and actually I think reading is very inevitable because, you know even while while doing like


comprehension and everything else it's still reading and, there are many different types of books as well like autobiography like fiction non-fiction horror


and it's actually I mean there has to be a reason why , libraries are you know in place where you can borrow books, because


press only, okay I have I think okay, to reading is also very inclusive so like say for example if you talk about sports part of these are penalties definitely they are not able to


run or like swim or let's say who is deaf or blind people, can't enjoy the movie but I think reading you know even if you are physically disabled you can still read and {uh) in the case of blind blind people they're still able to read in terms of like like lickings braille so I think it's very inclusive


okay no more already, ya


uh part three debate topic three


I think while it may be true that some pop music is frivolous I I think it's safe to say that not all are frivolous and that some songs do have meaning that other and you know


what convey a message that are not present in a lot of songs back in the days and I think one example is songs about depression, and you know freedom I think back in the day like say the nineties or eighties think depression is not a really discuss


topic today a lot of songs cut down on this, on this topic and, I think it's actually very meaningful a lot of people find solace and


and seek comfort from the songs and ya some songs are like are simplest they they show certain inappropriate body parts with, and have inappropriate lyrics not all songs are like that I feel there are still many songs


out there pop music today that their too sad, to, would uh whose message is


good ya


I think that there's this one example uh an artist who music has new meaning if I'm not wrong I think like now now that k-pop is very very popular right I think like uh


like uh, the group BTS ya they're okay I'm not a fan of BTS but like their music if I'm not wrong it promotes like self-love and and inclusiveness


ya so if you actually look at their lyrics it it encourages everyone like their listeners to to always love themselves and be positive


and I think for the, for their audience and their listeners it's actually , a good, outlet, like they are able to


I mean ya like definitely their music has meaning I am sure that there are a lot of other, artists and like singers out there whose songs have meanings as well and might not all pop music today is, you know devoid of meaning


, I think like, like you mentioned about not not searching up I mean not not searching up the lyrics I think for a lot of like music videos who that's of another language they usually has


subtitles like you don't have to search up but even even then I think like just the the general music video itself, can see that it's not, frivolous ya and ya ya I know I guess


I think like if from more original I think the topic you have comparing pop music today versus pop music of like another like like in the, past, like I don't know I think and like I think if like that's the comparison then the pop music in the


past definitely is like I mean there are definitely songs that do not have meaning as well and of course there are songs that have meaning but so so does, pop music today (hmm) I think you just


the problem lies not where the, era but, with the the singers and like the song lyrics itself, ya, ya


I think I think that just simply depends on like the genre cause if you know to compare like there is rock music back in the day as well and rock music can be very loud very disruptive like like heavy metal


ya so like not I mean not all you feel like not all pop music is oh ya I got nothing to say


part one debate topic one


okay so there I feel like there should be restrictions to enjoying arts in our society because even though they're, definitely is there are many benefits by dork around by arts the freedom of artistic expression but then obviously there has to be some limits to it because


I mean yes there should be liberties for afforded for artistic expression but, there should be a line drawn especially when probably there's harm caused to groups or people in society


so there should definitely not be uh no limits term because anything honestly art is like a really broad term so anything can be defined as an art but then if the art


like it inflicts violence or or whatever on people like discrimination or racial form or, by obscenity then obviously there there should be restrictions


on those forms from arts I guess, and it is also , for example like enacting laws against pornography because some people also consider like sex as a form of art I guess and then unlike other deviant sexual practices so obviously the freedom of expression shall be meets and also


it should be art should be subject to the same restrictions as any other for free expression so to create a legal loophole for, content such as racist speech or


other similar topics and then seeking protection on the grounds that is a form of art is unacceptable, yeah


oh but you mention that we should just educate them properly but as I said art is like really loose and broad so there might be some people raving opinions on, like certain arts then if they consider it as okay so like through it their child for example parents consider on pornography as like a form of free expression and then they just show their children isn't it


isn't it like obviously detrimental for our goal since it's you know they're more impressionable at their young age then, you know it's just hard to, define what should what can be shown I mean like what is right and what is wrong lah for art uh so I feel like


there should be restrictions,


(mmhmm)


but however I feel like you are talking about as in I'm not talking about you know those on, like more mundane-ish art topics like painting music music or whatever but I mean like the more the arts that is more they're more in the grey area lor so like obviously artist should be able to do what they want but


if it if it disrupts like our daily life then I feel like there should be restrictions ah but painting obviously, I mean even in today's society I doubt there is any limits based on it but I mean like


for the you know the more disruptive forms of art


oh my god uh I'm so sorry the recording stopped,


ya because I saw your to check the ten minutes thing and then I my phone blank by itself then it stopped, oh ya ya ten minutes so it recorded up to ten minutes


ya, ya ten minutes ten ten minutes, ten minutes twenty eight second


okay ya it's still running


okay, okay, uh by the way later when we continue the recording on the Appen mobile app right is it press the red one or the play button


as in the red circle wait ah, [orh] okay submit, ya


ya, ya ya there's only one button


okay, okay , , okay so as maya what were you saying just now


but therapy as in you must be willing to go for these consultations also what and I mean there are other people who just like think that they're correct so as I said, you know is just general so obviously there should be restrictions based by people like politicians you know the government to keep order in society


and ya you know example that's another case that the guy there was like a guy from a foreigner who came to singapore and he vandalised the MRT trains right and obviously this can be seen as a form of art


but, he's just disruptive and you know I don't think everyone appreciates this art oh, artistic expression so you know to say that there shouldn't be any limits is , wrong ya


I mean it is


ya but it is considered as a art artistic expression right so obviously so as you just said is uh is illegal so I mean isn't it considered as a restriction of artistic expression and it's a public nuisance so


!wah!, and also there was like another case where this woman, like this singaporean artist where she pasted a lot of stickers on the pedestrian crossing and traffic lights then I think that one you'll also like it's also considered as


even though it insight is humour and it's you know suppose being a like for for laughs and all but I just still feel like even though it can be seen as artistic expression but like, is just very messy and not as I said not everyone appreciates this type of art uh so if we want to do this type of art it should be within your own space as well


and not on public grounds, okay maya anything to add


okay , ya okay so, honestly I have nothing else,


okay but okay but it's not to say that like every aspect of art art should be restricted because, it does help to spark conversations between for like controversial controversial issues in society so obviously freedom for artistic expression is necessary and I feel like singapore has come a long way and you know there has been


like more movement like you know the me-too movement I feel like that can be consider as one or you know like, NUS research has shown that there is an increase in in arts


artistic expression so it's not to say that a restriction will necessarily be like, it just stopped it doesn't mean that restrictions places limits on our like liberty of speech or anything but it just prevents for how to say prevents our


life indeed from being disrupted by like arts that can be seen as a public nuisance first lor ya


(mmhmm),


and as I said just now like there was local theatre company that uh, had a production called this is what happens to pretty girls and it's a emotional piece in response to the me-too movement so this can be considered as a art form since it's theatre production but it was


it was unfortunately it was rated NC sixteen, and it in even though it's relevant for a lot of teenage girls now many of them couldn't


watch the, tape so I feel like in this certain cases it, it helps to bring about conversation about sexual assault in our rape culture in the world today and consent into singaporean singaporeans


does the daily convo so especially because our society is more conservative so sex is also really extremely taboo and help watching this film helps to the production helps to introduce discussion


to singaporeans but because of the limits based on this art form of art form art expression and its audience the production was not accessible so, in this case I feel like the limit is not


really justified, so because there are there can be positive effects from this work, and when the authorities place limits on these on it's just


not necessary ya but in obviously in other forms like as I said like pornography or fifty shades of grey those obviously there should be limits on, who who who can watch or like you know


behaviour that disrupts our daily lives like vandalism or graffiti on the public transports and et cetera obstacles along our traffic lights I feel like all of these should be restricted so there are


you know , rights and right and wrong I guess ya that's all I need to say


, you know, but then again that's for you are assuming that the person watching it the audience are mentally sound right so if you have like already uh unstable individual that going in to watch a


for example a really violent violent violent piece of work like the movies which, like for example it's all about guns and all that then I feel like this might inspire them because they're more impressionable or like you know easily triggered so


you know unimaginable things might happen because of that and as you mentioned to go therapy or whatever but I feel like not everyone, will will even consider that as an option so


ya it is better for, higher up like government to help us to impose restrictions because <mandarin>比较熟:bi jiao shu</mandarin> ya


part, two debate topic two


okay so I mean no one is going to refute the fact that reading is a wondrous pastime but it's obviously I mean I would from my from my point of view it's definitely not like the most wondrous of all pastimes it's like so many


so many like activities to do in the world how then we missed not, it is a good pastime but not like the best because, it can and, it fails to engage all the senses of a human body just your eyes and maybe your brain to to imagine like what's going on in the book its appeal is honestly just merely limited to psychological effects on the mind and nothing else


so there are other more immersive pastimes to provide a more engaging experience like sensory wise for example music is a formidable rival or like


VR experiences virtual reality because all of these will engage like auditory or you know, sometimes even tactile experiences so you know for example playing of uh instruments singing


KTV etcetera and reading is just like a rather reading is passive and engaging in music requires actual participation instead of just using your, eyes I guess and ya it creates a immersive and even more enchanting experiences for other forms of pastimes and also I've never seen anyone shed tears


for like from reading a book before, but compared to maybe like for someone with a pastime of maybe watching kilter plays or


or you know, like classical orchestra performances they're more moved people tend to be more moved as they feel more emotionally engaged so ya I don't think reading books is


the most wondrous of past times since it's unable to invoke any intimate and personal feelings from, us ya


(mmhmm)


(mmhmm),


okay but as you said right , you've just said that reading is, oh what you said it's the director's take for movies but I feel like isn't reading the author's take on the book as well so you're basically just reading you know just is like without


without the , , it just not the same because ya is still is still the author's take of the story what because instead of a movie I mean comparing a book


and a movie adaptation of that book it's still feel like, that movie would be better because you can physically like you can visually just see what is going on instead of a book and there's also a reason why, books are not widely you know you don't see students or people like most of the time like in their nose in a book or something is usually more of like going to cinema to watch movies or


you know playing games and all that also ya, and also the value and wonder or sushi topped with reading is not equally recognised across all societies because it depends on


like how affluent your society is because it can either be considered as a luxury or just a waste of time honestly because, in less , less progressive or not progressive like less


a third world nation with they have a lesser emphasis on education and lower literacy rates compared to like singapore or you know UK so reading is just like a luxury that they really can't afford which explains why children


during their break times they prefer sports and team games because those are to them to more wondrous most wondrous and enjoyable hobbies, compared to reading to pass their time as it signifies like you know them being more carefree and away from daily struggles or financial burden and it allows them to actively participate in something


more fun I guess and leisure so conversely in, more affluent nations like singapore japan korea, the increase in income has led to other hobbies which I'm sure that


you are all very familiar with like you know especially for (ppc) me and your age range right like cafe hopping which we do quite frequently and, cafe hopping is basically to jump from I mean go from cafe to cafe to savour


different dishes and this is obviously a very increasingly popular pastime in societies with, a more, consumerism culture, ya and


it it's like a display of wealth and reminder of how, uh ya it just this appeal is to cafe hopper and instead of reading books only I just feel like it's a more wondrous pastime because


people are is able provide uh sense of all enjoyment ya


and no I didn't say expensive but it's just I mean, it is considered as a inferior pastime compared to others, because reading I mean reading is usually people in the less


you know less developed countries they associate it with like education studying so I feel like other pastimes to them like playing soccer you know outside with in the field with other kids it's like considered a more of a escape from reality


from their daily lives like about having to continue to study to like do better for, you know their families and all that actually I feel like if just reading is not uh can't really be compared to other pastimes ya I didn't say is a luxury you know did not say any just


not as good okay ya,


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), but there's a reason why but then like not all books are adapted into movies and there's a reason why


books are adapted into movies it's like I feel like it just appeals to a larger audience you know so if those book even if the however interesting the book is not everyone will pick it up to read right because there are illiterate people, and movie is just like a more general general thing that people can enjoy to watch instead of having to read like you know for example chinese books then you read a bit then


for people like me or I don't know I think the general singapore teenage operation ship, but you know the chinese population I am doubt, that like more than half of us enjoy reading chinese books because we'll read a bit and then we will like not be able to read certain chinese characters and we won't be will get the gist of the story in general so it's not going be enjoyable


for like, everyone, ya it's just my stance but


but then as you said like people with disabilities cannot , cannot do sports lah I didn't say that sports is the only other pastime as I said there like music


and watching movies and et cetera I'm sure not everyone I mean there are obviously people with disabilities in the world but, but like I'm sure not their favourite pastime is not just reading a book pretty sure some of them enjoy doing other stuff instead of reading and and you said that like uh you can instead of chinese roots can read english books but some people can't even read in general so


to them definitely reading won't be a wondrous past time right like for example some of the older generation likes, to play Mahjong and all that and I think that is also considered as a more engaging experience and a more a more fun pastime for those people


okay pause , ya ya


part three debate topic three


okay so my stance is that pop music today is frivolous and by frivolous uh means that that it doesn't have


any meaning any serious purpose or value so it's like superficial and in shadow, pop music, today I've I think that it's like it's fun to listen to but there's no substance behind the music at all it's devoid of any meaning because no I'm pretty sure no one can argue that if the number one song on billboard music is about


your your behind like your butt then I'm sure that anaconda isn't like a, anaconda isn't a deep song in any way, so ya and then it's just pop music is superficial they follow the same


the same cookie-cutter template and there has been researched that's uh shown that it has become , methodically less complex there's fewer chord changes and they are just now mustered to sound consistently louder


and there's also been a significant increase in the use of a first-person word I instead of, you know a declining in words that emphasising society in the community so it's just more shallow and then lyrics also contain more words that can be


associated with anger and like anti-social thoughts and also , a researcher has also put fifteen-thousand billboard hot one-hundred song lyrics through a well-known data compression algorithm which is good at finding repetition in data and he found that songs have steadily become over the years you know like pop music


they are able to compress twenty-two-per cent better on average than, lyrics from other genres and ya, so I feel like there is even like scientific evidence backing up the fact that


pop music today is frivolous and I'm sure no one can argue that certain music that people enjoy listening to that is just fun to listen to but there's no meaning behind them like talking about sex or our human body parts and et cetera


but then again right I mean yes I agree that there are certain pop musics that, have good message behind them but like the majority of music is nowadays you don't see those with meaning behind them reaching like


like a lot of times you don't really reach uh large audience and a lot of people don't resonate with like the meanings as in ya I feel like pop music, it's easier, to


as in , as in like other genres such as classical I feel like those are those use like amazing and beautiful melodies and pop artist usually just sing about sex superficial love and partying like


artist like #justin bieber# which is a really well-known pop artist or like Madonna et cetera and you know classical music is like a higher up form than pop so, and composing and performing classical requires rigorous training to acquire the skill set but pop music is like so much easier that because I have also seen like videos on


if you have heard of I'm not sure if you've heard of the song called closer by Halsey and, (hmm) by Halsey and with, and a knockout artist but basically this youtuber he was able to recreate the whole music from repeating keyboards like keyboard notes so the whole thing is just a repetition and the lyrics is just


talks about running off with your lover and that's in as in, it's just a it's just superficial just looking at the lyrics and there's, you know no real


it's just devoid of meaning, and anyone can make the pop music record so I mean there is nothing wrong with it but you just can't compare it with art by other art forms like other genres you know ya


(mmhmm)


, , , I mean


ya that is true but honestly, since you talked about BTS I'm assuming you're talking about k-pop but like there is a really wide audience that in those k-pop but what are the percentage among them that even


goes to search for the actual meaning behind the lyrics except for those more you know devoted fans I feel like most people, most people just like listen to the uh you know those non-korean international audiences they will just listen to the


song so I don't think they would even know what is the actual meaning even if there was like self-love meaning or whatever behind them it's just like more of a shallow shallow ya shallow superficial


listening to the music


I mean pop songs can be quite emotionally charged


and you know not always shallow but without the lyrics like it pales in comparison to, like you know those instrumental ones like classical you know the music for pop is just like a vehicle for the lyrics which most of the time I'm not saying all the time but most of the time doesn't have any literary value


, you know in contrast for something as powerful as you know #beethoven#'s piece, like the moonlight sonata or you know others those it'll they will have evoked a sense of emotion from us from the emotional content even to people who don't listen too much of (mmhmm) you know those genres of classical music and


ya a pop song with the lyrics remove just conveys a general soothing, like happy said, enjoy and, but you know even then a lot of the music will just as I said will just be repetition


and there's no actual (ugh) there's no actual shape behind the music I guess


oh (mmhmm),


, (mmhmm)


but even then right I'm sure that, I mean there has been researched done and people from no particular age group still prefers even from our age group today a lot of us still prefers


music from the past like pop music from the past such as #michael jackson# work or #elvis presley# or #the beatles# compared to, today's artist like #nicki minaj# you know or like #justin bieber#


et cetera because I just that is as I said more meaning so it okay so it's not just about classical but you know other music from the past is is it's just like there's just more meaning behind them instead of


ya as I said it's superficial topics you know ya even if you do take out classical music and compare pop with today and in the past like it's not just the older generation that prefers music


in the past because he say that today's music is in like just about in general but, even people from our generation and feel like most of us a lot of us do prefer a lot of music from the past ya


(mmhmm), okay


oh part one debate topic one


okay so what so just to clarify I think you're you're actually opposing this that uh, uh you so you agree that they really affect consumer choice right well I would have to disagree with that because I think that, I mean that you mentioned uh people all want to be part of something


they want to be part of a group part of this lifestyle but how how do people know that this lifestyle exists how do people know that you mentioned nike is a brand how do people know that oh nike is a cool brand that I want to be associated with and everybody wants to rally behind nike I will have to say that


it was it's through advertising they develop that uh that community, so it's it's it's not it might not be directly like you see in this day and age you know is uh facebook lah people just want to be part of a community a part of fan the advertisement they don't really care but indirectly right the whole community actually started because of advertisements


like you see apple products for instance uh people are like, you know oh yeah I will only buy apple like no no to uh no to windows no to samsung only apple only you uh and then if you, lookup if you throw like samsung advertisements at them you throw huawei advertisements at them they're still not going to buy because they still want to stick to apple and I would say that it's not that the advertisements are not effective is because the apple's advertisements is super super super effective and that's why they really influence the the apple users to be


sucked into this cult of apple yeah so I would have to disagree and say that advertisements are actually very effective in changing the consumer choice, yeah so it is in in a indirect way I would say in this day and age probably in the in the olden days yeah uh you maybe just show one ad and then people because there wasn't much choices you know you don't see you're not exposed to a lot of uh different platforms you only got TV and radio that's it but now you got TV you got radio you got your smartphone


you got your internet your your computer your your ipad you got cinema you got outdoor advertisements as well so because they get they've seen so many things right there's so many different advertisements people now can pick and choose, which advertisements resonates best with them and then uh yes they're going to they they they solidify their their position with that uh with that brand yeah so maybe last time people will oh they see one advertisement they want to buy but now no they see the advertisement it reinforces their


their, uh uh loyalty to the brand that's what I would say so yeah maybe even is not good in changing uh consumers' patterns but advertisements are very good in reinforcing the consumers' patterns yeah so that's what I have to say what are your thoughts on that


(mmhmm)


(hmm), (mmhmm)


, (mmhmm),


, , okay so okay so, yeah I get I get what you mean man like yeah I honestly from from my personal uh experience as well you know it's a bit hard like I like I mentioned it's hard


like if you show me a a huawei ad over and over again I'm not going to buy huawei man I stick to my apple products but the thing is like I mentioned it helps to reinforce so yeah I think it's it's while it might not really influence your decision because who you are as a person and what brands you identify with is actually you as a person I agree with that


but I would have to say that uh, advertisements okay maybe it might not be able to affect you in terms of changing completely like I don't want to I I'd I don't want I don't want mcdonald's I want jollibee now you you might not be able to uh uh change completely to become a fan of jollibee but what it can do is it can give you options


okay so I think personally like for me last time it was only mcdonald's KFC burger king these are the three big fast food giants if you're going to use these an example, but now with advertisements I know that okay now there's other options as well there's ordinary burger there's MOS burger there's carl's junior there's uh jollibee and I only know about these brands through advertising


and it's through advertising that I know these brands and that's why I will try to explore these brands you know maybe I want to try but okay with these new options which one do I want to try which one is most appealing to me the one with the best advertisement right or not so, while it may not really change me as a uh as a core as a person it won't change my core


but what it will do is that it will , uh, influence my decision, to maybe try something new that day, yeah it influence my decisions to make uh simple choices like for instance if I'm going to choose between coke and pepsi uh now pepsi has a lot more advertisements than coke


I love coke so much but I'm moved to try pepsi because of the advertisements okay maybe they brought a new flavour on and I say !woo! that sounds like an interesting flavour I only know about this flavour because of that advertisement I'm going to try it yeah as opposed to maybes another brand like seven up


or another brand uh, uh sprite for instance if they came out with an advertisement but the pepsi ad is more appealing I would be more willing to try that pepsi ad so yeah advertisements cannot change you as a person I completely agree with that but it can influence your choice


so that's what I think , (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), , that (mmhmm)


yeah I mean


!wah! you you got me there man when you talk about like being a married man and, like yeah I I have to agree as a married man, uh even when I I see something on an advertisement that makes me want to try something if the wife says no is a no, so yes I uh that uh that one I have to agree like you know if you are in the if you are in in a yeah if if you are a married man then


yes uh your the advertisements cannot really, affect your choice is your spouse yeah the wife affects the choice yes, (mmhmm) that's true yeah


, yeah, you're right man uh word of mouth, I agree yes word of mouth like I see my friends do it I want to try like I see you uh uh try the the the app that you tried what Stashaway a'ah I see you want try I try I try the app


because I seem ya friend uh word of mouth yes but how did you learn about about about stashaway at first, how did you learn about it I'm curious research ah, (mmhmm)


, okay


okay yeah okay so, alright so just to okay uh I want to ask okay when you found the uh information about stashaway you found it on the stashaway website or you found it on a blog


, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm), (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (hmm) (mmhmm)


, (mmhmm) (mmhmm) (mmhmm) okay


alright, (mmhmm)


, , (mmhmm)


okay , okay so I guess that's your experience lah but for me personally my experience was very different because you told me about it what I did the first thing I did was to go home do research when I go home do research what I did was to


uh google it of course standard that's what everyone does nowadays they google so I googled stashaway the first thing that comes out is an article, about uh different uh investment platforms that you can use and I clicked on the article I read about it I read about all the different uh


investment platforms and that made me decide to use stashaway and for my experience it was because of that blog that I read and that blog was a paid advertisement so I've to yeah I've to uh, (mmhmm)


exactly exactly so it brings me back to my first point where I say that advertisements no it may not uh completely changes a person but it reinforces you as were at your decisions like what I want to do so it has reinforced me to want to try stashaway out


so yeah that's what I so so I mean your experience is different from my experience and I have to maybe with that we can disagree about it lah like you know I have a completely different uh experience from you, I'm sorry about that (mmhmm) okay


okay I think we're done with the first debate, yeah, okay hold on ah I am changing rooms I'm changing rooms okay yeah my my my daughter is supposedly try to change room


part two debate topic two , okay so I'm the proposition uh so a picture is always more powerful than mere words


okay so a picture is always more powerful than mere words what is your view so I'm the proposition and I have to agree that pictures are more powerful than mere words okay because for me uh


words they can be interpreted in a million different ways okay so if I yeah if especially if it's just you're typing it up if you were going to read words the way you deliver those words it can take on ten million, ten thousand million different uh meanings okay so uh it can be misinterpreted uh


language can also be a factor, in terms of translation, and also uh the the vocabulary that you use it might not be able to get your point across so when you provide a picture there is no two ways about it they provide the


picture it's very clear the message is there it can't be misinterpreted the picture it speaks for itself I mean there's a million different details that you can take out of a picture whereas words can only capture what is limited by the human vocabulary


okay so yeah so this is to me pictures says so much more because they can tell you things that words cannot even describe okay like for instance I'm going to talk about like uh a fantastic burger


okay how how in how many words can you describe a burger, juicy succulent tender delicious yummy these are words but when you look at the burger and you see like the cheese dripping down the glistening, you know I I I see I'm I'm at a loss for words if it's a really good burger what are the details that go into a really good burger is something that you can't describe


even the japanese gave up and they they they decide to describe uh uh the feeling of when you have a good meal as Umami what's Umami nobody knows it's just that feeling that you get because you can't describe it you have to look at it the picture will tell you when you look at that that is how beautiful it is that's how beautiful it looks


if you want to use details to try and describe it yeah you're going to fall shock, so to me pictures will always say much more than mere words so what's your view on that mister #sheikh khalid#


(mmhmm), (hmm)


(mmhmm)


, okay so okay I I I think now uh I think you mentioned yeah you touch I agree touch is definitely something that actions actions and touch yes, that is nothing more powerful than that I agree that little peck on the cheek but now we are talking about words okay so purely just words we're just looking at words without actions without the touch uh without context it's just words


I would have to still say that pictures still means so much more like the examples that you've given you know like uh uh someone who uh they eat the burger, and they just said just that word is enough to make you want to eat that burger but now imagine just


the the the words without the image of the guy eating the burger is will it have as much impact or not so perhaps it needs to go hand in hand okay or perhaps, uh


okay just hold on ah sorry ah


okay very sorry about that I, yeah, okay, very sorry that's unexpected I did I did that was not expected, uh okay


yeah I know uh I see is mere words but if you okay so now we take that an example of a a child crying okay you see do you you hear the words, !whoa! okay that just hearing the words will you know that is a child could it be an animal it could have been anything but with the image of a child crying tears rolling down the eyes and bawling that is when


so you were talking about context right yes words give pictures context and vice versa pictures give the words context as well but which one is more powerful okay what can we do without, so I will have to say if we were to live in a world where we had to communicate uh communicate purely through pictures I think uh we will get we will have a much better understanding of each other like uh if you imagine like uh


right now in this in this modern day and age you know last time when we had uh phones, we would text each other and you all all you would see is text you didn't have the images right you didn't have the technology with images but now you know if you want to send something to somebody you can either type it out make a voice recording or you can take a picture and send and now if you can see


what what the the way people are trying to communicate nowadays is is a mix but I would say that the message is most clearly sent once you take a picture and you send so that's the way that it cannot be misinterpreted at all, so if you think about it if you send a voice recording you send people can misinterpret you type a text message you send people can still misinterpret interpret so final resort what people always do take a picture send there's no way to misinterpret that picture


so that's why I would say if we could just communicate only with pictures the word would be much more, clearer in terms of how we communicate with each other, and also to go back to your point about how cavemen how they communicate with each other was through drawing pictures right


I would say that that is because that is the one thing that people always fall back to to being the most reliable on the basic uh like no the the the caveman who wrote who had cave drawings on the walls they that was the first thing that came to their head because it's the most basic way to communicate to another person


is us humans as we became more intellectual that we started creating languages and tried to define certain things but the thing is we are limited we cannot describe every single thing, that's why I feel that you know pictures are still much more powerful than words that's my thoughts what's your thoughts


(mmhmm), (mmhmm), ,


(hmm) (hmm)


, , (mmhmm), ,


(mmhmm), ,


, (hmm) (hmm) , okay yeah so yeah I I I agree that yeah if you need picture if you if you only relate to pictures and not words yeah you need to work on your IQ , but that that actually that statement it makes me I feel like that reinforces what I'm trying to say


is that as a child what you're born with you don't you you're not born understanding language you're not born understanding words but you're born to understand pictures, pictures images that you see it it it it reaches you at a very primal level you know that no matter what your education status is no matter what uh language you speak no matter how old you are a picture can always reach out to you and give meaning


whereas if you were if it's just words you have to you have to have a certain level of IQ you have to be able to speak that language you have to be able to have a certain level of IQ and EQ like you mentioned, so in that respect perhaps words can be more powerful but only for a select group of individuals so if I write something in french


and I show it to you would it have impact on you rather than I I draw a picture, of that same thing that was described in french and I show it to you then it has meaning so for me I feel that yeah words is is very complex it can be very complex but pictures is is really the basis of


everything that we that that we come to know the world from like how we understand the world, , (mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), yes so I mean yes I understand that yeah the the purpose of showing the kid the picture is so that we can try and teach them language but yes they're trying to teach language but as a child from a child's perspective like I don't care about words I don't understand the words you know


some uh okay let's not look at children let's look at there's across the world you put some, uh like a , a myanmar fella with an african fella from zimbabwe with uh north north european fella from sweden you put them all in the same room they can only speak their own languages but you want to reach out to them and make them understand you can't use words what you can use is a picture because no matter who you are how old you are


what level of stage what level in life you are at a picture can always reach out to you whereas words cannot words will always fall short no matter what , nah exactly a smile that's an image yeah so that's why to me the is images ah images is is something that is very primal very basic and to me that is where power lies in whereas words it can be more complex it can have more detail it can have more layers so it depends on where you see your power is at


if you want if you want something that's very precise and to the point, words is very powerful but for something that's very primal they can reach anybody no matter what I feel that pictures are always more powerful, so is where where you where you see power is where is where do you see power lie that is where I how you can determine what's more powerful I feel


yeah


(mmhmm), okay so I think we can safely agree to disagree yeah right , alright, (mmhmm)


I don't think so , yeah okay all done


part three debate topic three


yes I can please continue , (mmhmm)


(mmhmm)


uh , [bah]


okay so here ask here is how I'm going to frame my argument okay , so advertising encourages a desire yes I agree advertising does encourage a desire but for products that people do not actually need so for me that is where I find uh I disagree that people actually need these products


okay so you might say that you got your shirts from song and song but then you then now you're getting shirts from Armani because of advertising, and that you don't really need Armani shirts song and song shirts they provide the same coverage and comfort that Armani shirts can provide so it's something you don't need well I would argue that


you actually need that Armani shirt I would argue that uh you actually need that luxury bag that your wife has you actually need all of these uh, expensive uh expensive things to make yourself look better because okay looking better


is is something that , uh people think that no it's not a a real need that uh someone that that that you need, to have but uh I would argue that , creating that image and persona for yourself is definitely something that you really really need okay to be able to look at yourself


with respect and with self love, you need to be dressed in a certain way, and I feel that that need needs to be uh addressed okay if you get what I'm saying so yeah this is something that you everybody needs you know it may be frilly


stuff that you know people might think oh okay oh you got the new necklace a gold chain do you need a gold chain I would say yes because having this gold chain will make you love yourself when you love yourself you have the confidence in yourself you can be a better person and then you can live a better life


without that gold chain you'll always be left wanting you'll always be left thinking oh I wish I could have that oh I'm jealous of this person and your mind and your thoughts would always be filled with all these uh things that that that or uh these ideas that


I am less of a person because I don't own this stuff so in order to bring your self love up you have to purchase all these things and that's and that's why all these things is something that you need, that is my argument and I'm I'm I'm really focusing on that uh phrase there do not actually need I I feel that these are things that you actually need


to have that self realisation to have that self love self respect, cause without it you cannot function as a proper human being, yeah, so yeah that is my argument it's quite short so yeah what do you have to say about that man


okay I okay so when you talk about like, (mmhmm)


, , okay so yeah so like you mentioned like yes perhaps advertising doesn't really uh encourage you to buy products that


you really need maybe it's just the need that you want is actually is, are itself uh you find it within yourself and not through the products that you buy but I felt like okay so on that point perhaps yes I will I will submit, to you that you made a very good argument I agree with you that these are objects that people don't really need


what they really need can be found within themselves but you mentioned something about society like they want to uh belong to be a part of a group that's why they buy all these uh items that they see in advertising, so, my argument is that they buy this because they want to belong to


a society they want to belong and as humans we are social creatures uh without interaction with a fellow human being, we will not survive, you know that's why they say as a baby you need to have uh skin to skin you must always talk engage with your baby eye contact and everything because social interaction is


exactly yeah so it it social interactions is something that is very very important to human beings and how you can encourage these social interactions is by, by belonging to the group and how we belong to the group is by purchasing stuff


that they identify with so a group, for instance uh people who, all like toyota for instance they see their toyota advertisement they buy the toyota car and they connect with other fellow toyota owners because they cannot uh they're on the same wavelength so know that's the that's how people socially interact with each other


like how you and me we how we got to know each other because we like, the food at two zero one Tampines yes okay so if two zero one Tampines had an advertisement that say know here is where cool people hang out after school uh to have great Prata and great Teh-Tarik


if I saw that advertisement I would go for it because that's where I know I can find like minded minded people that I can share that love for hang out late at night at this supper spots with, so I feel that advertisements they're kind of signal points for people


well that's the thing it we we is a indirect, kind of thing like we don't need I don't need to have a a nice supper spot to go but I need to have a uh to find people who'd hang out at the supper spot with me so I don't need an LV bag but I need to make friends with people who like LV as much as I do I don't need


a apple iphone but I need, to find people oh sorry okay , yeah so as I was saying the examples I was giving like I don't need to find I don't need a supper spot to hang out but I need to find people who can hang out at the supper spot with me I don't need an apple iphone but I need to find people who also want to buy an apple iphone so for me


uh these advertisements they're not telling me that okay these are the products we should buy they're telling me like !hey!, if you buy this product these are the kind of people that buy the product and these are the kind of people that, you can resonate with and you can interact with and that will be they will form your social circle so advertisements they don't to me why they create the desire for the product that you need you need that product because you need to to create these social circles


you need to create uh common interest cause if I'm a just a plain blank person every day I wear the same white shirt white pants and I live in an empty house I'm not going to find common interest with people and then I cannot interact so I need to buy these products so that I can create this identity


this uh exterior identity and then find people who share that same identity with me and then I can socialise, yeah so I feel that advertising it does not create that uh it creates the desire for stuff but I would argue that you actually need it it's a big roundabout but uh at the end of the day you need that to survive


yeah (mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm),


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), , (mmhmm)


, (mmhmm)


, (mmhmm) (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), (mmhmm) (mmhmm),


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), (mmhmm), okay so I think, yeah understand and I I I think that what what you when you mentioned that uh Cisco you've got the uh zoom you've got


skype I would say that you know maybe you might think that you got the desire for it but you don't actually need it right but the need comes only after you started using it and you become entrenched in that lifestyle I feel that , yes the options are there you've so much to choose from but which is the one that you actually need I feel that uh is is through advertising that you get to understand that


the differences between uh for me Cisco is much more uh secure versus skype which is much more uh user friendly versus zoom which is much more versatile so I would say that, what do I need so there's a lot of different options I think that okay you know what they they both all all three serve the same purpose I could get anyone I don't really need to choose a specific one but actually at the end of the day if you think about it right advertising they tell you what does this what this product feature has


uh what this product feature has versus the what this product features has and that's why, it's quite subliminal in in uh for for for the person who sees the advertisement said okay you know what I like this product I want to get this product but why do I want it I'm not sure but actually deep down inside their subliminal is telling them that they need it you know so when Cisco always brands itself and and sells itself as uh something that's more secure they okay


I see security security security then okay I'm going to get Cisco whereas somebody else would says oh skype it's very user friendly the interface !wow! so bright so colourful I like it, it's bright it's fun it's it's user friendly I like I like I like and that's why they go for skype instead of Webex, so subliminally they think that oh K actually there are three a lot of options I can choose anyone


but they went with that because that's is that is what they actually need they just didn't know it they just didn't know that they need, it so that's what I feel lah, yeah they don't know they need okay okay


alright


K so, K part one debate topic one


okay so basically advertising are often entertaining but they really affect consumer choice, I guess in this day and age where advertising has always been the, the whole motif of


making a person just buy due to, friends peer pressure, you know , fitting into the crowd and everything like that, I guess normally it doesn't really affect, uh


the choice for customers to buy, because normally first of all they they're just excited to be part of status quo, as they are proud to be of a certain group, example if let's say you're buying a nike shoe


and then, everyone in your groups loves nike and then somehow rather, you're you're part of the group but then if you suddenly decided to buy asics or adidas or something like that, yeah you'll be the odd odd one out the black sheep


so this normally happens in a soccer, uh you know uh someone who plays soccers kind of thing, cause normally what they what happens is that, when I was younger when they used to buy shoes and all, and then just because someone is normally rich or whatsoever like that they would buy something like nike


and then the rest of us we're buying like asics or some some sort, so at the end of the day I feel, that it really affects consumer choice like our choices because, it's normally being part of the group that's one, second of all


the fact that, you would think that, advertising ah is normally entertaining so that, the, generation before you I mean the younger generations right, they would more be more enticed with the whole, funk and happiness and and the and and the and the joy of being part of a group lah so


I would I would I would definitely agree that, it it doesn't really affect us for that that that's for my point of view, yeah you know , that's this is this is how I view advertising, for one especially now with facebook and everything like that


everyone just wants to be part of a group, rather than just buying something, and then normally if you choose to be part of a certain branding, you tend to stick to that brand throughout a certain period of time until you maybe reach a certain phase, but until then yeah I think I think most of the time a person would just stick to that certain brand


until yeah something like that or if your money allows you to do so, but then if you don't have enough cash I guess it goes to the other portion where, if you choose for you choose something that is cheaper, so yeah that that this is what I feel towards advertising and and how you buy the things that you buy basically


so what do you think about that ed


(mmhmm), correct


K honestly rob straight up right, what I think is you see, I was raised in a certain time frame, where I do not watch TV, I do not have much , eh uh how how do I put it exposure


to, telephones and stuff like that so back when I was younger and the person that I am today, is normally based on how we were raised at the start, so I wouldn't I wouldn't disagree with you, but, individually I would have to


why because okay, eh I give you an example when when there was sony ericsson handphones, uh when it was first introduced e the I guess it was the e three six eight or something like that right, back then when I I didn't I didn't have any TV I didn't have any


point of contact where advertising would be reached out to me, so the only advertising I had, and I still think works until today, is the word of mouth, so the word of mouth normally reaches me in a more


deeper, and I feel more connected, to any any branding because, I'm associated with a certain group of people, alright so for today this generation, I'm still not


part of that , uh group of people right, where I would have, my own mentality, my own likes my own dislikes I I I I wouldn't agree to that so by me switching on the television right you can show me a million and one times jollibee


or you can show me a million and one times I don't know marrybrown, it still wouldn't entice me to buy those, brands at the end of the day, I still go to burger king I still go to mcdonald's inc even though those advertising isn't there


right so, I I wouldn't I wouldn't say that you're not wrong, yeah I wouldn't say that you're not right, but, individually I think advertising doesn't affect me so much, that's the reason why I feel, a lot of advertising companies they are playing with subliminal messagings


they are playing with distortion of colours, where they would actually attack your subconscious mind to wanting to buy something, because they realised that advertising alone is just, not powerful enough, they need to reach the person's black box which is our mind our desire


and sometimes it it needs more than just, uh fancy words and amazing music, discounted price sometimes it's not about being all that especially being singaporeans right I think most of the time we can afford to buy whatever we want


so the choice is honestly ours whether you want to eat Nasi-Lemak or steak it depends on the person that you are and it is not the advertising that is being shown, so I would agree that, the advertising is important, but


it doesn't affect me personally and doesn't affect the people that I know of personally, I mean you know what I mean , so that's my thoughts in opposing to what what you have to say, so how about you bro


exactly (mmhmm)


exactly


exactly yup


okay, so so okay regarding the choices that we make today, right see, now most of the people in our age we are all married, we all have wives and the wives, rule our lives


right so okay uh I I may agree with what you are saying, but because of compromise, because of understanding, because of compassion, now our current conversation has something to do with that as well


because not only is it advertising, see, the difference about man and woman I feel is, a man needs to, touch and feel and experience, to enjoy a certain product, and a woman has to see and experience


so advertising affects our lady counterparts much more than us, and being a married man like me and yourself right, we are more prone to experience, we are more prone to, experimenting


with whatever that we see, with our current social media platforms, with our current advertising venues where they reach us K so because of all that I would feel yes, we might be more experimentally


you know we might be more we we might experiment more and all of this but, individually , I I wouldn't I wouldn't okay for example right I wouldn't buy an Armani shirt, right even though


it's on sale or even though it's I don't know you know good quality its amazing design, because, man normally we are simple, so we stick to the traditionals we just buy a shirt to put on so that we can just go out, but


the ladies have to take care of us, based on some advertisement and some sale, they need to don us in a certain outfit our attire our alma that when we face reality and the life outside, we look better, and then sooner or later we kind of conform


to that person that they want us to be because I guess we are just great guys you know what I mean so okay for advertising in that aspect it affect a married couple a lot more, than a single person


and because especially being married and everything normally the income would be double and then your spending power, you would have higher, and because of all this you wouldn't mind trying out, because of some advertising that you see


but, it doesn't support the fact that individually I would agree to the fact that advertising plays an important part advertising plays an a part, of creating awareness, that !hey! look, I'm here I'm new why don't you try me out


but at the end of the day man, if you do not want to try something you would not try something out, you know what I mean, so so it's more of a social activity with your counterpart social activity with your friends, social activities with your new colleagues


so that everyone has something common to talk about, in this world of status quo, I guess we have, to conform to a certain, group, or a certain identity, and because of that, we have no choice but to agree fine advertising


does affect, but individually again, it doesn't, so that's my ideology behind why you were saying what you are saying lah basically, any thoughts on that bro


, is a no , so it's not for me ah yeah


your wife affects you yeah right and then when you are younger when you are in your teenage life, your guys affect your mental mental state, you know let's say they all buy a new shirt


normally okay do you remember when we went clubbing and everything and then when you started wearing your your Hawaiian shirt, it's a trend bro it's a trend and everyone started following that, see at the end of the day advertising works better with a human to human touch


whatever that's on TV, , Stashaway that's fantastic man, that's fantastic exactly


true, uh research actually, I just did research on investing, so if you do not have anything in the high range six income uh six six digit


uh, savings it is best to use Stashaway, but then the more money you have your investment diversifies itself, but I guess people our age where we have either, uh high five digit figures or low six digit figures


I guess the best to invest is Stashaway because it is regulated by MAS and everything so that's research bro that is not advertising


actually I got that information from a investor that I I I I gave uh because I I work as a grab driver right, so there was a grab customer that I I was just discussing with him what do you think are the best ways that we can invest money and stuff like that so he says that if you want to have a no brainer


you want to have something regulated by MAS, and then you want something that is transparent, he said the best thing you should do with uh with an amount that is not so much, that maybe you can start off with twenty thirty thousand right, he say you can start off with Stashaway then I say oh is it


so normally where I get my informations bro it's normally through people and I trust people much more than some robotic, , uh algorithm where they can, uh see what we need and what, we want based on what we talk about or what we search on our websites because normally what we do on our phones


is the complete alter ego of who we are, and then the person that we are outside our phone is that nicer compassionate humane person, what's what we do on our phone reveals a lot of our darker sites


so so , , (mmhmm), for sure


(mmhmm), sure


correct correct, so basically it's a in depth it's an in depth explanation to what I introduced to you am I right to say that


exactly, I agree to that, (mmhmm), (mmhmm)


for sure, so so for me it doesn't affect your choice but it enforces your choice, yeah yeah !wow!


intense


part two debate topic two


oh sorry, part two debate topic two, alright


distorted yeah, (mmhmm)


fair enough


limited, yup,


okay so that I can say my my point for for this right is very my view is very simple, a picture is more powerful right, see but a picture doesn't, , it it it it doesn't combines you see when you have a few words right normally is contextualised


you don't just say something that okay so so by you by by me saying this okay let let me just wrap my mind around it for a bit it ah because basically for me when you just say a mere word, you would say that you're having a conversation on the phone


or, you might be sending a text message, but see those are not mere words, mere words normally encompasses something more than just words it contribute some actions behind it, so like when you say a picture is more powerful than a mere words right that's what you say


for me having a man holding a burger, that was glistening and oozing out with cheese, having a bite, and then looking into the camera and were saying, god damn it this is awesome


or something just simply just, that itself, would make you want to go to the restaurant immediately in oppose to you see, something on the picture or a billboard


that has, new burgers coming on uh on on the way uh is coming on the uh thirtieth of august this national day burger, for me it doesn't doesn't give me the power on top of that, when you send a picture okay you know when you will have


old pictures right old movies where you have two kids drawing heart shape and then a little boy and a little girl and then the small boy would be giving to that small girl and then running off because he's shy, and then the girl would just open up the piece of paper and then see I love you


right, yeah that is awesome that is fantastic and that is heartfelt why, because there were more than that there was the conceptualisation of how the picture was actually written, so if now we bring that situation ten years into the future where the guy is a teenager


and then he strives and and you know he struggles with his family and stuff like that just to meet his girlfriend, run off to her workplace, give her a peck on the cheek and say I miss you


just these three words with that peck of cheek ah a a peck of kiss on the cheek, that thing bro, you cannot draw with words, you cannot draw anything that, that, fulfils emotions, that's the reason why we as a more cultured and more intellectual


, generation right, we have more, context rather than end product, so our context is much more important that's the reason why back in the days, people who are in cave cavemen right cavemen would actually draw something on the stones


you know because they cannot conceptualise they cannot explain they cannot understand they cannot they cannot tell you anything else so they draw a pictures, you know, then we go back to the people of renaissance


the reason why they come up with the greatest paintings in the world, why we can truly understand those paintings it is because we understand the struggles and the hardship that they went through, so without context there is no story to anything


but words heartfelt emotions, and a little bit of physical touch, transcends any picture, that's my point of view bro what do you think


mere words bro mere words heard that from your kid bro, , there was no picture behind your kid's cry bro those are mere words bro


exactly


(mmhmm)


well okay since you are putting it that way right okay the way I look at it is this, uh advertising in terms of a business right it it it has already travelled milestones from where it first started from, K back then we relied a lot


on pictures, there's a reason why there was one point of time every, , bus stop and every uh MRT station everywhere you see there were pictures of advertising, the reason why they normally put those advertising there it is so that you can stare into it so long that you create a need


a want right but today if you go to bus stops, if you go to any country I mean I mean we we're I'm not talking, low or high about any country right but if a country that has gone through enough struggle


uh they have a group of people where meritocracy is key in part in their life they tend to progress a lot faster, so as singaporean, I don't feel that pictures, attack us as much


pictures normally attack people, who have, very bad experiences, people who has a relation, to what that picture resembles, people who has a deep understanding about pain or about uh an experience that they can never forget and then it brings back a certain memory and everything


but you got to understand one thing bro every one of those memories, every one of those pain every one of those experience that they all go through, they normally have words that they cannot forget, and those are the words that is stuck in their head


when they see that picture that is a standstill picture, and the need the desire the want, would still be promoted, by the words that come from those experiences, so I agree that a picture is more powerful


but the reason why they're so powerful it is because of the words that is clinging on to those experience, the pain that they have gone through, you don't see billboards everywhere in singapore bro, you don't see uh stationary picture of nothingness I mean I mean of anything just right there right smack in your face you don't have that anymore


why, it has to have some animation, and those animation, normally comes along with a few words that you know that cascades into the picture that you see or you know it interludes in a certain way that it becomes a word


so basically advertisers understand that just a picture, would never satisfy a person's need want or desire, it is the they understand that words, have to come with a picture or the picture needs to have words


because just the picture alone, it brings you nowhere, just the word alone, actually would bring you everywhere, I give you an example, you have a burger that is placed, on a red billboard


you would naturally assume, that mcdonald is there, in oppose to the actual branding mcdonald's, stating right in front of your face the need and the desire for you to go there


is actually higher, because if they were to show you a chicken burger, but you don't want a chicken burger you want a big mac, you don't care for that chicken burger, so because of that chicken burger maybe you don't feel like having mcdonald's


but, when they put the words mcdonald's, it will somehow or rather that urge the need for the choices that it lies ahead for you is a lot more, and all those desires all those wants normally comes with experiences


good bad or ugly it doesn't matter and those those experiences comes with words, so at the end of the day, I feel that words, encompasses any picture, unless, you want to get into


for me the the the picture that I've always loved, is always the renaissance arts, I I I mean I I I cannot help but fall in love by the beauty of art, but, you got to understand the reason why it's so beautiful why it is so amazing


it is because it normally comes, with an experience it comes with a certain pain, and normally why we understand that is because we read through books because of our research, so with all these books explaining to us why this picture is that magnificent


maybe that's the reason why that picture, speaks a million words because it is actually words, that speaks a million words before we actually saw the picture, so we we cannot come from nothing


we got to come from somewhere, right the reason why cavemen started having these pictures on the caves is because I mean , we are just being as simplistic as we can right is because they lacked EQ back then they lacked IQ back then


so people who are more in tune to pictures, to me I feel, need to work on their IQ and EQ, bro what you want me to say , so so that's my point bro you know what I mean


what do you think bro


(mmhmm)


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


okay, but but like what you say right


as a kid normally you go through this right and then the picture is the thing that appeals to you the most right, as a kid, but you do realise that as a kid when you see these pictures it is your parents, like it's explaining to you what you are looking at


and what you're feeling in the emotions, and then you continue look at the picture again, you know you know that that that that's to that's to oppose what you are saying regarding the kids, think it yeah


(mmhmm) (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), correct


or a smile, fair enough, correct


fair enough, uh ed sorry ah sorry to cut you off there uh Wen-Hui eh uh sorry ah that just now my my phone was actually, uh tapped out and then now it's it's on uh, it's, not playing it's not recording


oh okay okay sorry sorry sorry, okay yeah, yeah we can safely agree to disagree lah at the end of the day


without words there'll be no pictures, right in a way to speak because you got to explain and without pictures there's no words lah, fed up


part three debate topic three, K so ed can you hear me


okay so basically advertising encourages a desire for products which people do not need, okay so right now I'm in agreement to this, reason being because, okay


first of all without having any prior knowledge or without prior understanding, of, anything that's available for us to buy and sell and promote and to create any kind of awareness, we wouldn't really know what to buy


see when I was younger, I used to go to a shop called song and song, because it's five dollars, you know or three dollars for a shirt, and then nobody really knew that it is actually a song and song shirt


you know and then I could be wearing it for a year or two, until, I saw some advertisements, that shows that a certain group of people you know they go out they're more funky they're more trendy and then at a certain age where I reached the part that I need to socialise I need to be in the know you know where people needs to see me and say !wow!


right that's when I realised that I need to wear something nicer, that's when I started watching a lot of television that's when I started surfing a lot of web, and then I realised that eh look, there's a few brands out there


that could actually stand out, so I eventually bought some fantastic shoes from I don't know for for me I'm not so Atas so I mean what I would buy is a shoe from Pedro or buy a shoes from Aldo and then I'll get


jeans from perfect black you know I'll get jeans from levi's, you know and then eventually I will get shirts from I don't know , Armani calvin klein and then I started buying perfumes to compliment the way I look I started


gelling up my hair and then started trying to look good so that when I go out there when I get to the clubs and all people will be like yo check that boy out man he has swank he's cool he's got swagger and then at the end of the day


by me, having the desire, to be part of a group, the advertisement actually make me choose a brand that I want to associate myself with, so the desire constantly grew


until to the point that I knew that I had to work harder I had to earn more money, so that I can always be in the know I could always be in a group that everyone say !hey! man I want to sit down with that guy that guy is so cool out there, so eventually I became that guy


on top of that, since since since I have a wife as well, bags, are an in thing, right, so we as men I feel eventually have to buy some luxury bags for our wives


it's not only a symbolic gesture, it's also I guess for me uh an achievement of what the husband could reach rather than always saying you know you know it's it's fine you know you don't need that you don't need this but you know at the end of the day we are men


we need to provide, and then the thing that created their desires are as well advertisement, from people walking on the street, to media that they watch on the phone to a television sitcom or a show that they watch on on on TV either way that advertising created that desire for them to to be part of that certain group of wives


and then as a husband, I eventually relinquished their desires, by buying them the bag that they want, so for me I feel, I really do agree that advertising actually encourage a desire for the product, what do you think bro


, okay, I I agree with what you are saying, especially that, we are asian we come from humble beginnings, and


we got to understand the value of what, how much we work for and everything, I agree to that a hundred percent, but, a desire, is something that no one needs, it it never truly encompasses


an actual need, but it encourages that desire to be burning, that desire to want, the reason why a person gets a gold chain like for me example I get I got a gold chain and everything I guess it has nothing to do with


self worth or self realisation that I need to achieve something I guess it's more of a symbolic gesture, like, I saw my dad having a gold chain and he, told me that if a man wears a gold chain you kind of made it in life


and then for the past twenty five years of my life I grew up believing in that notion, and eventually when I got the gold chain, it didn't it did I I I obviously I don't need it, it's true but


the beauty of what desire is, it it creates you, to transcend from who you are, to who you are going to be, so if you're going to be a person who always get something that you need, the transcendence is going to come from within


and then who you are on the outside, can never be truly shown or truly be understood, rather, I chose a path that, with advertising, with the desire for products that actually


dwells within a status quo, and something that I don't really need but something that I need for myself to be part of the society that I'm bringing up uh uh I was I'm going to get into, so uh for me my experience in this is


with the understanding of all that right, I used to be the kind of person, that is happy with earning two three thousand dollars a month, and then paying the bills and then having a thousand dollars at the end of the month, but now I want to get


ten thousand fifteen thousand not because, I I I need to show off to people, it is because when I decided to buy the gold chain when I decided to buy the car when I decided to buy my wife the bag


I realised that the desire itself, made me want to step up, to a better person a person, that I see on television you know someone like suits like #harvey specter# he doesn't need to wear something awesome but the suits that he wear


it obviously comes from a desire and the desire to progress, the desire to transcend himself, not so that people understand his self worth it so that he understands his self worth, he deserves to get what he wants


so at the end of the day that desire becomes a need, because that need comes from a certain fire that is burning within you to be someone better, oh man


eh I'm I'm sorry ed I'm sorry ed ah, uh !alamak! my phone again went up on me again, uh the play stop and submit


correct correct, I am so ultimately sorry, ya ya the level not recording as well, yup yup


okay ed sorry eh as you were saying, (ppc)


(mmhmm), yup yup


(mmhmm), it takes a village to raise a child lah, yup


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


(mmhmm) (mmhmm), but isn't that isn't that still a desire for a product that you don't really actually need


ed sorry I cannot really hear you you're breaking up a bit, (mmhmm)


(mmhmm), , (mmhmm)


okay fine, so okay see advertising doesn't only encompasses material stuff, it also encompasses knowledge it encompasses a mentals a a a a mentality that you have, it encompasses the person that you want to be


right, so okay in a in in ins uh in regards to what yous, saying about the , the the the Prata shop right, you want to go to a Prata shop at a certain time then you want to have you know good food but then


someone like us, we are more better with soft skills, and these soft skills, uh promotes a certain likeliness with the people around us, so with having this we don't have this issue


but there's a whole other group of people, a huge part of the world, that are literal introverts because I guess they are too accustomed to, the internet age where you don't really need to face anyone to


get anything at all right, so, in regards to that example bro, you have adult friend finder, alright where we have these kind of sites where, you promote the desire


right where you find like minded people, getting together you don't need it, I agree you don't need it, but, because of that desire and the person that you are, advertising actually encourages it


right, and it becomes a need eventually because you've become that person, and then sooner or later, before you know it, it isn't a desire anymore it's a need, and it's no longer a want because why it's an integral part of your life


another example right now we are using Webex, right the reason why Webex is around is because, I guess it's a more sturdier more balanced, Cisco programme, that we can converse in a certain way


right but, there are many other kind of many kinds of like like zoom and everything that we can use, but obviously, the person that actually comes up and told us to you know come up with this webex uh seminar and everything like that it is because obviously they stirred a certain desire


and caused the need for them to use, webex, so I would say that, it, advertising does encourage, but, sometimes you don't need but it becomes a need after you become after it becomes a certain


it's a lifestyle you know right now where you don't have people having supposedly people have free will, they have a choice but they don't, they basically have options, and even those options are streamlined


by the things that we see by the things that we know and the things that we experience, and the person that comes out with this advertising, they are normally people like us, who have a lot a lot of experiences, who understands people like us and they understand the other portion


and they understand that people get very, strict and secure about who they are and what they're going to be so they're going to say I do not need it, but, they understand that the desire in that person, engulf that need


and then after using it once or twice or thrice it becomes a lifestyle an integral part and then it becomes a need, so, you know so basically uh what what what for me is


it does encourage the desire, eventually, even you don't need it it doesn't matter, but eventually you're going to need it, because desire is powerful you know what I'm saying


okay


okay, uh part one debate topic one


how far is failure essential part of success, okay, so I believe that, failure is essential to success because failure is


the other side of the coin to success, failure forges greatness and failure is fuel and if you use failure as motivation you cannot be defeated in the long term and that's what


success is, with failure you will gain experience knowledge resilience growth development and value


and failure's not the end it is just the start of one's comeback story, and the only way one fail and not succeed is when one decides to quit


but if they keep going, it will only be a hurdle which one will definitely overcome because, nothing is permanent, failure is also an opportunity to learn and failure exposes your weaknesses


and also you can't really know and understand success without first having failed often many many times


and like I say failure is just one side to the coin of success, hence one cannot be without the other it is impossible and absolutely detrimental as it may lead to blind faith and ignorance


and that would be the last thing that humankind needs in order to ensure our survival in this society, and also the most successful people in life have failed the most times


you go through life without failing at anything then you're not really living life at all, taking risk and, falling falling down flat on our faces is part of life and it makes us who we are, it shapes our character


and also makes us stronger, as you see when when we first start out as, a baby the first thing we need to learn is to walk, and a baby is definitely going to fall down many many times


and falling down is part of failure they need to go through that life stages before they can finally walk and then run


what we often don't realize is that some people had to go through all those all those tough situation right before before where they can be they are at life right now, just like baby learning to walk


and the problem is society tends to celebrate success rather than, rather than failure, people are more willing to tell you about, how how successful they are but would they tell you about, how many times they have failed before becoming successful


and also as a normal human being we have no obligation to be successful at all time in fact we've to go through


a succession of failure before victories, and there's nothing wrong with that


and also when we are kids we don't stop at failure when we first learned to ride a bike it is failure after failure we get knocked down and then


we learn we learn and try try again until we pushed forward, and then we are able to ride a bike


and also if failure was the end of your story then there will be no great success like for example jordan einstein edison oprah winfrey and j k rowling, thomas edison didn't fail he found ten thousand ways that did not work and he only needed one that did work okay and also einstein did say failure is


success in progress, failure is just one more way to not do something, and keep going regardless failure you will succeed, and if those people actually stop at failure the world will not be filled with this greatness as it is today


failure is nothing but a life lesson and a motivation too that we know


(mmhmm)


okay so, as a proposition I would like to say that, for the points you make, regarding, one being


able to succeed without failing I will say that it's definitely impossible, as I've given the example earlier, a baby do not learn to walk without first failing, and walking is technically essential part of life


walk, K and also to ride a bike, you will definitely fail the first few time you cannot expect one, to be able to ride a bike perfectly in one go


and like I say there's nothing wrong with, failing, a lot of times you hear successful people those very successful people that, you feel succeeded in one trial


but do you actually know the backstory, no one would tell you, how many times they failed before achieving that, achievement, and also yes definitely it will give you emotional turmoil of course but to be at the top you have to go through the hardest obstacle before becoming successful in life


there's always ups and down, and in life it needs to be balance to be considered healthy, and every person whom you believe has succeeded without failing is a false perception


and like I said in the earlier point they're more willing to celebrate their success, as failure is, depicted as shame a taboo in certain culture


but what's behind all that success is through trial and error, we bounds to have failure, same as when you're doing a maths problem for example, something that is new to you


you will definitely not, get it right the first time, unless you are like, a genius, but even like what einstein once said


failure is a progress to success, and also when one wants to start up a business he's bound to face failure he's in in his endeavour, and to get their business to run is actually considered a success all foundation comes from failure before becoming successful


failure is the seed of growth and success, and it's no secret that our worst fear is often failure


it would actually be better if one can see and understand that failure is inevitable, and if they understand that concept they will succeed better with this kind of mindset


and it's true like I say, is is walking, not essential to a human being, other than those that are born unfortunate without legs, or being handicap due to certain sicknesses


I mean walking is part of life, okay, and you cannot


from my experience, I know babies that I've taken care of personally and, I know that, if a baby is able to walk under, one years old it is considered a fast walker but still regardless it is considered a failure if


before, they come they are not perfect human beings are not perfect, they are, they are meant to make mistakes in life and their mistakes is considered failure to some people, and like I say nobody would show


nobody will show failure to you they like you say they're what they they are more willing to be they would more willing to show off on their winning than their losing would they tell how much, they went through before they succeed


okay, part two debate topic two, okay so experiences are more valuable than material possession


I agree with this statement, because, potential possession is a potential pleasure but an experience is an active enjoyment


okay, possession cost money but many experiences are free, possessions do not satisfy our deepest needs but the right experiences do


products invite comparison but experiences stand apart, like for example wanting to keep up with our peers celebrities it doesn't make you happy just make you feel like


you want to compare more, but one would be more willing to share their experiences that they have, you know been through with other people especially those with similar experiences


and also we are a whole of our experiences not our possessions, our possessions do not define us since possessions are material in nature, there are prone to breaking being lost or simply being forgotten


they're often temporal but experience craft us into who we are, all experiences especially difficult ones shape us and mould us as people, and also we are social beings so


like, after all we we prefer not to hear about other people's possessions, as it leads to comparisons, oh


I actually say that possessions cost money but some experience, some experience are actually most experience are free I said most and also, I would like to address that, material goods won't last forever but memories of your experiences will yes the experiences that


like your example you said you need to pay for travelling ya you do have to pay but the memories will stay with you, what about material stuff material stuff, sometimes it just gets forgotten left behind and, you get sick of it


it is also known that humans once, they're being, exposed to that item for a long time, they tend to not, have a liking towards the item any more unless you mean sentimental stuff and that will obviously lead to hoarding issue


hence experience result in greater happiness because like I say humans adapt pretty quickly to their external surrounding as a result physical possessions that we buy only bring us short term happiness, but experiences and view we have concerning them improve as time passes by be it bad or good experiences even a bad so called experience


can become a happy memory down the road, and also, experiences result in better memories I have very few fond memories associated with things that was bought for me, or that I bought for myself


but I've countless fond memories of experiences that I spend together with my family my friends those memory stays with me for a pretty pretty long time those are childhood memories


and also experience results in less clutter most of the things that we buy end up becoming a burden to us they take up physical space, they need to be maintained, and also they need to be kept for organised and they need, yeah you just need to maintain it


experience on the other hand result in no clutter in our home going forward, an experience result in better connection with other people, think of shared experience you have with your friends family members example going to rave enjoying a road trip going on a vacation


each of those shared experience provide opportunity to connect with other people, this is where real joy and satisfaction can be found not in buying things but in connecting with others, experience result in greater mindfulness and that's equal to greater happiness


in a fascinating study in science magazine two thousand ten the researchers concluded that wandering mind is an unhappy mind but for people who are present in the moment enjoying it, the things that are taking place around them end up leaving happier lives than those who do not


like I say material possessions are perishable okay they don't last forever what makes you think that those those people that you mentioned in that country in that state, would be happier with, a nice house a nice car


all those material possessions, I actually doubt, that is the case even though they may be experiencing bad, memories those experiences would not, will not like how to say affect them greatly


because, like I say things can spoil, they can break, so for example, your computer spoils, the only thing you cannot you can't say that oh you are you're feeling happy because the computer is malfunctioning


but for a bad experience, it can actually become a good experience even for a stressful or scary incident it can become a story for you to tell others you know for you to connect with other people


and experience result in less comparison with others like I say, would you be happy comparing with others trying to beat their status and what not and, you mentioned about house being passed down and what not what if there was a natural disaster that cause it to be destroyed


and then that possession would just be nothing it's just empty


and that's why I mentioned that material materialism is is not good because about the comparing and what not, also, I did mention about the science study earlier


about the unhappiness one, and it wasn't it wasn't referring to, possession people with the most possession it was those that, have more experiences, rather than, believing that possession will lead you to greater happiness


(oo)


but then, experience make the person who they are, without that, who are you, and also like I say we are social beings we don't like hearing about people's possession very much we rather we rather listen and bond with someone over similar experiences


okay be it stressful or, scary experiences in the past it becomes it becomes a funny story instead of you know, a stressful one, that's where, that's the only thing you can have with experiences


but, okay


but to beg to differ because what those people that I mentioned earlier in my previous, previous point I'm referring to minimalism, yeah


so, I did hear from someone that he used to think that this kind of luxurious possessions were more valuable okay he thought it was better you know why spend on so much money going to travel overseas that cost you thousands and thousands of dollars to those luxurious country


and then, he just after after years come by he just thought to himself and then he realise that those materials, doesn't really make him happy, okay it was those experience that, makes him happy and that's when he invested his money into traveling


(mmhmm), part three debate topic three


okay so countries experience conflict should be left to sort out their own problems, I believe they should, they should sort out their own problems because, sometime


having foreign intervention, will make the situation worse than is before especially if it's a religious conflict, or, you know


and also the nation will knows best for its reasons in it's own in their own conflict, it'll be the best person to resolve it on their own rather than uh foreign intervention, and if the the conflicts are really too complex and out of hand then countries the the countries should appeal for help if they really need


you know help from international communities, the sovereignty of the state should be recognised at all costs and never to be infringed upon because the intervention could, abuse and applied the citizen of that country


actually what you just said is what I wanted to say, so national sovereignty is the idea that independent nation should have the rights to governs governance and making its own decisions without any interference from foreign powers, it's not something that most of us have to think about


but such peaceful ignorance is a a luxury not every country get, not every country gets to be left alone, or wants to be led left to sort out their own issue, okay, some some countries experience such extreme level of conflict


that the basic condition and responsibility of a sovereign governance, can no longer function properly such countries are know like you said failed states, and that's when where I feel like we should not


step in to interfere, and if they really need help, they can appeal


I would say that it is actually very dangerous for, your own country personally to go and you know interfere with other country, what if, what if it's like you know, due to religious conflicts from


the neighbouring country or your own country, for example let's talk about malaysia and you know israel, where they totally bar them from going to that state, do you think


they should still intervene


but then intervention by foreign powers could be for their own self interest, and it could end up exploiting the locals like I said in my previous point, of the local people given their intervention, and very often these foreign powers have an agenda for interventing in the country


and due to past historical baggage they could possibly take revenge on the locals example, africa people and, US you know slavery and whatnot


I would say that regional interventions is more preferred lah in my opinion rather than global intervention even though they're more limited and less likely to result in incredible damaging culture shocks you know, even then, I'm in favor of intervention only when it becomes apparent to the government that has either lost all


uh capacity to establish, and order and or monopolise the use of force to enact an authoritarian regime, it's how you feel about the concept of sovereignty


I would like to say that , why cause more problems like, even though you want to intervene you might be actually causing you might be actually causing more problems for your own country and that's not helping at all it's better to protect your own country than to you know


make more conflict arises and it's jeopardizing your country, it's just for the safety of your own country, like for example during the japanese world war when thailand decide to you know let those japanese troop passed through their country without saying anything


they will find, but those other country that, didn't went along obviously, when in a good situation, so sometimes it's better to you know, keep silent and just


mind your own business


definitely they can, but title was, like spared, and also I would like to see that intervention by other other countries right in an internal conflict elsewhere has so often been shown to cause more problems okay than it is to resolve them


and quite frankly if the people in the country can't resolve their own issues whether be it tribal territorial or over resources because of incompetency or corrupted government then they shouldn't rely on others or expect other people to come and be involved


like they always say put your own house in order first


(mmhmm), but, it, it could backfire you know especially if the peace keeping troops right choose to take side in the conflict or try to impose their resolution on the people also it's very difficult for external power to understand the local situation and or contacts of the place especially if the conflict is religious and racial in origin


part one debate topic one the


(ppc) okay, , alright so as a opposition alright uh I believe that you know, ah how far is failure an essential part of our success I disagree alright simply because first of all I would like to understand this question right


the oxford dictionary word meaning of the word essential is, absolutely necessary or extremely important, this is why we disagree, okay we do not considers failure


uh absolutely necessary, or extremely important uh it has some part in success alright but it is not a mandatory thing it is not something that people have to go through to achieve success


uh it is not uh uh success happens in many ways and we cannot just say that success have to go by uh failure and then success, you know success can be success on its own okay this house believes that failure is not essential part everyone plans to succeed and not to fail alright no one plans to say that


okay after two failures then I shall succeed okay no doubt okay failure is a very good learning experience uh, but it's also a process that people always overlooked it's uh emotionally draining and painful okay what what does it mean alright it hurts the person's ego mentality energy level