you know to see this progress in in in these sitcoms actually I I feel like you can see the progress of the american society through the arts and since we're talking about america let's talk about like the black uh lives matter movement , most of the people who are protesting you know they actually talk about uh you know they they


you you see all all the protest you see images like on instagram stories people are are drawing on the images of you know the the people who were unfortunately killed by the hands of the police , you're not people are not reading chunks of words they they really are not they're they're reading they are looking at these images you know so even to protest for this movement it's using arts to to talk about progress in society and


I'm not sure if monuments are considered arts uh because because they are like a, artistic reflection of historical figures so assuming that they are considered arts this is also something that I read a few days ago , actually a lot of uh historical monuments statues are being pulled down uh because they were racist people in the past and although the olden society was okay with having such monuments up today's society you know is is not okay with that


and the pulling down of these statues shows the progress of society towards ex progress of the american society towards, the acceptance of the history of black americans so this actually shows how you know the progress of the society is best reflected through the arts


yeah so so uh I I understand your point about how people consume media differently and how everybody has different opinions as to how they view their or the media and then how that the kind of perceptions that they get


from from you know viewing the media act, and, although it may not be a mirror reflection of what's happening in society versus what the artist's portraying I think it may best it is like uh you know it is best reflected through the arts because as like the the point I mentioned earlier about how


media you know it's actually you know it it's controlled by the state or how censorship comes along , and how this this these laws actually show what kind of values a country embodies, because values is a word that has been used time and again by the leaders in singapore which when they talk about homosexuality so I feel like that that is one reason which actually shows how liberal or how conservative a society is


and definitely when we look at the uh american society it the the progress of the society is evident when we look at their sitcoms for example so I do feel like the reflection of a society through the art form does exist


technology creates more problem then benefits for society


err it creates more problem because, this, uh lesser time for family, because, err everybody will be using their mobile, uh lesser, one-to-one uh face-to-face conversation with your family members


or you having dinner time your family members we have we're when you are having a proper conversation maybe your spouse your your kids will be distracted with the phone ringing, or replying with the emails, err so


err this is one of problems that I face, and also, err, for technology wise what kind of problem is create for me you know on a personal level is that err for example for work we use


uh, err WhatsApp to message your customers or your friends but, sometimes uh, because of maybe a comma comma in which is not that good or you cannot relate the message to to correctly err the person may perceive or read the message wrongly and get a totally different meaning so instead of


getting a good news across


you mentioning for, uh, uh health care uh no for for GPS wise, you are able to locate yourself, and go to the destination to the correct destination


(ppc) , number one maybe you're too depend too heavily dependent on technology, that you, forgot your common sense, as in the sense of direction, your test oh sorry test


to test your to test your memory, to use your memory power to remember where you have been than to always rely on because you tend to have we tend to over rely on something, you might


over-rely on something and also, technology tracking of your location is also sense of like tracking the person, uh, it's also intruding somebody's privacy I mean if you, ya so uh


as as you know singapore will have the tracking system TraceTogether, , that's also another form of GPS, so you're, uh, your your location wise would, be found let's say you're doing something that


it's not supposed be known to other people only by yourself or maybe to another person but it will be known so, uh, I would say problems uh, more problems will arise with such


yes indeed, err, there are many pros and cons to it, uh but, on a err individual choice, on a personal level, if the person choose not to do it, but being forced


to be given and have to do it, uh, it's not against the person-nent person's own will


technology creates


which the topic says that technology creates more problem than benefits for society


technology cannot replace, human interaction, one-to-one uh face-to-face no no physical touch


that's the most basic ya, technology cannot replace, uh physical touch, yes we can find uh substitutes for example or you have elderlies that you want to visit you cannot


with technology you do you can actually see them through FaceTime or whatsoever but you physically you're not there to help, to console uh to, do other errands for that


person we don't have err that that's what I feel, lah so technologically lacks that human touch


ya so joycelyn over here mentioned that, uh technologily technology uh uh, reduce the human touch


err with you you want to have information uh at your fingertips , making everybody very anxious making everybody wanting to, have information quick making


but this needs to have err to people who are slower, they find the challenge to keep up with you, to keep up with technology technology is fast err technology is fast so err what about people who cannot catch up with


you want uh uh uh information to be accessed readily , err making everybody very anxious very very uh, what to say ah uh


they are making me very anxious ah because you have uh information, ready uh twenty four seven, nighttime date uh nighttime, nighttime also when you're sleeping also you also would be having wanting to google something what about your sleeping time


so you have to have a self discipline to actually stop yourself from actually touching your phone, uh, gaining access to information, yes it's twenty four seven, anytime you will get it but the same time


uh, people will get obsessed with it, so you need to have uh, you need to tell yourself to stop, if you need to self-discipline


can technology, help us with self discipline


okay but it boils down to the person individual as in oh yes my performance of like screen time is so much


so the source of problem is the individual and not the technology if that's what you mean, uh okay , are we still supposed to continue this conversation


err but in the end must we agree with one another or just keep it as


are we supposed to close this this thing


machine makes human and their jobs obsolete, I agree with this statement, because there are many jobs that still, requires the human, touch


and there agree ah make the machine makes human their job I would say I I agree because , uh, and err some jobs


their roles require, err err physical human being to be there and cannot be, replaced by machines, for example our HR manager maybe previously back maybe ten years ago maybe the HR department team it holds about ten ten staff then


because of technology and whatsoever err it streamlines the the headcounts so that's why maybe our our HR department headcount reduces to even two staff or one


and also that's the role that one of the roles that is making ah machines, making a, uh uh jobs uh


the vacancy your jobs to be reduced, , technologies for the HR roll probably because payroll become, uh accessible ah with, some IT programs that you just click on a button and then it will tabulate everything out


that's one of the roles that human resource, err err human resource uh, job vacancies will be reduced, this is one of the job


err, this is one of the job that I find that is being slowly being reduced ah, what about you alex


ya machines for you mention about critical thinking, jobs that require critical thinkings uh machines cannot be replace, I would say that so higher level management


ya, but err what if one what why what if one day, uh machines uh replaced our cleaner's duty so cleaning do not ya


cause cleaners don't really need, ya cleaners do not definitely need critical thinking, but machines will will replaced them err replaced their jobs so, making the job vacancies lesser for people and where should all these people go since they do not have critic they are not able to think


they're not so educated uh ya probably they're not so educated so the machines uh I would say the machines uh replaced some uh


I would say machine replace jobs, ya but I agree with you lah alex, some things that you still need some some, some some jobs uh I mean


some jobs you still need uh people to be there, for example you can't ask the machine to do, to write a book, you can't ask a machine to, uh plan, no to coordinate your wedding


so anything happen also you still need PR manager to be there because you cannot have a machine to say to be quick enough to respond to any, uh any, any news or any uh any ,


uh quick enough to actually give a ah better response lah


because not just for singapore's in singapore's context let's say india uh india has machines to, to, err probably, do farming and then uh uh but


their jobs get get taken away from them because of these machines will be reduced ah what kind of err education can, can, what kind of other training or education can you give to such people wait sorry are we supposed to say context of singapore or other countries ah


, okay so anyway so ya what about india those people farming and then machines replace their jobs, but their bread and butter is actually farming


ya they have to be educated lah, ya


so definitely in the short run it also make jobs obsolete


but but maybe probably because they don't, the the the, the countries don't even have, such uh, trainings available for them, to have the money to fund in training


ya I actually agree with alex ah machine makes human jobs obsolete but at same time create new opportunities ah


okay, how do you pronounce that lah,


euthanasia, okay I don't know whether is it being uh legalised in singapore, but, apparently under the AMD act ah, uh singaporean I don't know like under thirty one AMD leh if you go and google lah


they say that singaporean who has attained the age of twenty one they can fill up this form, so if they are desires not to subject to, extraordinary life sustaining treatment in the event of, he's suffering from terminal illness


this one is taking out the the the lifeblood is it, I also don't know leh, and then they say that there are four types of


uh, there are four types, but I think cannot lah you wait ah wait ah , uh, just two two second


okay I think I think now is still not, legalised in singapore if not you won't come come on this question err I think that it should be legalised because is own personal choice


uh, you can plan ahead of what you want to do, or in events something happens to you you can plan ahead or what should be done because it's your own choice, and because if any if anything happens right err others will have to make the choice for you


and, when they make the choice in life it might not be of your best interest it might be the interests of their own, and, but it comes it boils down to one thing, uh


if you have a choice, it's your own choice and, is not being uh manipulated by other people and, you are the one who is suffering that's why you should have the err you you should have the right to choose


but Bo Pian there they already black and white already leh , don't know whether, the last minute at the last point of time they say are you sure you want to do it maybe they still have a second chance eh and I don't know lah,


!aiyo! no lah maybe the pain is actually too much until they really cannot think already just say just do it then no whatever their suffering ah that's why they say that you just they just just


they just do it [loh] because ah you have to make it legalized so people can make a sound decision because you might not know that because of disease or what's so other factors right that err makes them probably change their mind or cannot think correctly ah


ya, and Sekali they they should, make a decision before they cannot think correctly


oh or another way round lah


, but you have you're making the decision to to


making a decision to to do it


uh illnesses, terminal illnesses, to shorten their their suffering mah


and not because of, I think it should be based on the basis of a terminal illness ah then you should then you can, there are terms and condition ah so maybe one of them is actually because of uh terminal illnesses that's why you choose for this option only provided only when you have terminal use illnesses if not it's just commit suicide mah


go drown or you just jump down from building, so is the proper and a planned way ah, more proper and planned way, that's why we we have wills what they never say they never say cannot cannot have a cannot do wills right uh wills are not legalized wills are legalised what so this is actually


so for for this case also should be ya but for this one to be legalized is like you make your own decision will how you want to do is your own decision for euthanasia you also want to go ahead with it it's your own decision to do it


so it should be legalised we made our own decision to vote we we make our own decision to live or die in the process before we made the decision probably we have, uh probably there are terms and condition that will probably you have to consult your doctor you have to consult your you have to discuss with your family members or whatsoever


I don't know how is the the documentation like lah but uh, in developed countries like I think don't know in, in in france or in switzerland, they make it legalized oh I think in, I don't know which asia country but


has it but, uh most I think probably most developed countries have such things set in place, so being singapore being a developed country I think they should set such things in place


I think now is a right time because singapore is already, uh it's already there uh so this, uh this topic is being discussed is good but the action of whether to legalized or not


uh uh, uh they should consider and do a vote, , how about you alex


is a it is a legal documents specifying that, should I become terminally ill and unconscious


but I think I think this one needs to be uh done when you are


when you are fit you know, cannot like last minute oh I want to die already then I'll do this ah


I think I think the card I think there will be some err new there will err if the government legalise this right I think there were some count


form of err, err, things that they will come up with to stop being uh overly publicizing it or advertising it lah like for example if I think law firms law firms when you do advertisement on the TV


right they cannot show oh you want to do what what what what what what what what what, then come to this law for I think it must omit oh sorry, or like for law firm when you want to advertised on a TV right I think there are some kind of guidelines that they have to meet one like, you cannot say that err we can do this this this this or whatsoever or


uh, some things that they cannot they cannot say or persuade people to go to that particular uh err lawyer firm also so when you do this right I think it they have to be very discreet and I don't think they will they will over overdo it lah


but if given a choice would you want to do it, you would do it ah, if legal if legalize you will do it


not not accident mah, ya so many sign insurance will have put a clause lor terms and condition this one cannot


if given a choice whether I want to do it or not if legalised ah


!aiya! just do it lah because you see ah now now if given a choice is legalised it is legalised already given a choice just do it first lah , like writing a will I'll just do it first


just leave it open lah , legalised, I think we should be given the option, because now it's legalised that means totally cannot leh so when it's legalised people is given the option whether they want to do it or not


so they should give us the option


but then you said cannot sell sell everything also sell leh brother, and then why would people have to I think, some people overseas have to fly to that place or just to do it leh


so if for singaporeans to do it if you want do it they also have option they can fly over there to do it lor


they don't do in singapore they do overseas oh


commit suicide will be a offence eh, ha


I think for me personally I feel I am not, I don't have a, I will say that you have to lead it's good to legalise, number one uh I'm not very religious lah


because maybe some some some religion said oh cannot cannot cannot cannot do cannot do that but I think you should get you should legalise so that err we can have the option, and we make our own decision, oh


stop


ya err in terms of uh technology creating more problems than benefits for society I would disagree, because err in terms of, technology right number one err technology we have technology of many many different areas of our


lives so let's say the first one would be maybe in terms of uh healthcare so in terms of technology advances in healthcare it has uh, increase the overall longevity of of each individual human being so in fact the lifespan last time maybe people start especially during the start of the industrial revolution maybe those uh workers or stuff like that people usually err start dying of at


thirty years old forty years old but because of all the major technological advances in the field of health care err it has increased the lifespan of everyone, dramatically dramatically so other forms of technology that has given us more benefits than problem


err would perhaps be in terms of info communications like what we are doing now so in this ah pandemic err even though we cannot meet face-to-face but in terms of meeting and sharing of ideas via the internet would only be made possible


if the internet exists, so in terms of internet right based on what I have read previously is actually due to a, due to this ah intranet thing which was developed in the, US military err ya so next will be perhaps GPS so GPS is also based on a military uh application which has been push forward to allow civilians to use so uh people like me


I'm not exactly very good at map reading but because of GPS uh, I'm usually I will usually be able to get to where I want to be uh because of GPS lah if without GPS I would most probably be lost and uh other forms of technology would perhaps include uh


err ya that will be our next topic so in terms of machine so I wouldn't want to discuss so much about this right now so but all in all my stance is that technology does, err create more benefits for the society rather than problems and I will say the pros heavily outweigh the cons


maybe jocelyn would like to offer a counter argument


uh jocelyn I need to put your sorry jocelyn I cannot really hear you can put your mic closer to your to your mouth ya I cannot hear ya better


of course,


okay okay I do agree that err the the tech which the which is going to be rolled out soon is ah, isn't is definitely not a good thing in terms of a privacy I think err jocelyn has perhaps heard of me


say err complaining a bit too passionately in our personal lives err but in terms of this right yes technology, it does a intrusion of a privacy it has made a privacy individual individual and personal privacy to be more exposed more exposed ah but in terms of in this case right perhaps no choice


we may actually need to to track the movement of uh individuals especially during this pandemic but however however, the problems wise err the pros wise would definitely outweigh the cons in this case because number one it can make contact tracing a bit uh easier and more efficient rather than taking a very long time or like calling the person up one by one just to be able to to find where he or she is going


but I think the main issue err, that this form of technology will cause more problems as compared to benefits for the society is perhaps uh more in terms of the human nature so the technology wise it may not be


good or bad in this case but it's mainly the human nature whereby there will be a, some sort of err, political intrusion on on the invasion of privacy so in this case is not really the technology is doing more bad than good it's mainly human nature if they want to continue tracking everybody's movement so I find err


jocelyne's uh uh stance to be very weak, ya your turn


yes correct but this one would be talking about more towards the side of human nature and not really ah the tech not not not really the technology already


yes correct so definitely in your case I would belief that your argument here is that technology may actually uh it can actually be used in ways that will cause more problems for the society because of human nature


sure let's agree to disagree, what about other as uh may do you have then for jocelyn do you have other other arguments to support your stance


err wait ah eh shit my ah I think my ah my voice recorder got problem suddenly it stop, actually I clicked on some notification they suddenly it stop


I haven't submit yet can submit first then I, okay okay I submit and then now I play again


okay no no never play so do I need I submit already, ya correct don't get anything ah okay thanks okay so


so yes I agree that


technology does reduce the human touch but err I don't believe that I I go around touching people and people all around come touching me lah so, in terms of uh that I will say that uh it can be a good thing but in terms of err the overall society as a whole because err in terms of informed


dissemination of information so dissemination of information like for example, uh when I was in my secondary school or primary school lah secondary school not so much already in terms of primary school right when we want to do a research, we have to go to a library and sift through many many many uh many many uh books just to find whatever we need in order to do our project or in order to find additional materials it can be very time consuming and then err so


so because it's very time consuming that is why it will take a lot of time sometimes you do so much but then you realise you don't achieve anything, but right now with the internet because of on err Google and the, other search engines actually Google is the main one ah so in terms of err using search engines right


uh all the information is on our fingertips yes I would I would I'll can already uh realised that there is this form of a argument whereby there will be a lot of fake news that is going to be, err disseminated around the internet but of course it is up to the individual to actually get and cross-check all the information that they have based on different sources


so right now in order for me to want to learn something ah want to learn something that is perhaps not taught in school or maybe there's a certain topic whereby I am interested in learning I can do so easily in the comfort of my home and the information which I want to find will be very very targeted


rather than reading through an entire book just to maybe find, two or three paragraphs that that would, helped me but right now is whatever form of information whereby I really need I can just type it into Google I can and I can get a lot of uh search results within seconds


it can I will say it can because err maybe you have like different apps or whatsoever to maybe say track your performance or whatsoever


correct so I would say technology is a tool what the human does to make the tool to his benefit is up to the individuals uh


individuals uh uh capacity already so it's err how humans actually utilize or abuse the technology so I would say that technology uh my stance here is that technology uh, in itself technology doesn't uh create problems or


err doesn't create problems or like benefits because obviously the technology usually it is uh it is made so that there will be uh it will progress and also benefits society but it is based on the individual uh person whether he or she


uses it to his or her benefit as well as the benefits or whether this actually benefits of cause problems for the society


okay whatever lah


no you are supposed to agree with the statement , okay


err I will say that err, in terms of this topic machines making humans and their jobs obsolete I would say uh yes there is a very strong argument to say that uh especially with machines and AI it will make uh it will make humans and their jobs to be obsolete especially especially those doing


very uh manual or repetitive work like your factory workers this and that, correct because like if our factory worker is like just stamping the things obviously your machine is going to do it better and then they are not going to unionize and then err no is going to they will not ask for MC and they will not ask for pay raise but in terms of in terms of the opposition which is err my stance


is that machines may not actually make humans and their jobs obsolete if the jobs actually require a certain level of critical thinking because uh, machines as of now machines have as of as of now would not be able to do the critical thinking for us but of course in the future with AI then definitely it may be a different story but right now I would say that in terms of jobs requiring critical thinking like your job and my job in the company


definitely our jobs would not be able to be fully fully err replaced will not be fully made obsolete with machines I will say that the good thing is that err the machines will perhaps enhance and make us more effective


I'm not saying for all jobs I would say that for those jobs whereby number one that of human face to face interaction either is definitely going to be needed and of course there's going to be a certain level of critical thinking, as for like things such as uh sales or like maybe if you're talking about say


or maybe like a CEO of a major company trying to uh sell a new concept or a new product that his company actually produces like one good example is err perhaps say err, steve jobs and the late steve jobs as well as his marketing crew yes he is the one that is making the machines that err


that may perhaps be, creating more problems or benefits whatever your stance is for society but the thing that is that he needs to be there in order to sell and push the product ah, err in he needs to be the one that is trying to that needs to sell the vision to everybody a machine definitely will not be able to do that so I will say that yes I agree with jocelyn is that


the in terms of the the most basic stuff the most basic jobs that requires like menial labor this and that yes, uh machines will make all these people's jobs and livelihoods be err be jeopardized


but those jobs whereby it requires higher critical thinking and whereby you really need to be able to convey your message across a across large crowds definitely, technology as of now would not be able to uh would not be able to do it they will definitely not be able to do it


so ya that's my stance for now


as of now


in terms of uh replacing the cleaners is it oh this one definitely one, ya


and machines definitely cannot marry each other lah


ya okay err maybe if you think about it in another perspective right is that perhaps the with the machines right yes in the short run it will actually make certain jobs to be obsolete, but it may actually open up another field altogether and of course they must in order for them to be able to fill such roles right they definitely need to get a necessary uh education and training if not


definitely they will be left behind but like I said this one is other than the individual's ambition to, to a to be able to hold such jobs at all to go into those fields of course in terms of the economic societal uh socioeconomic uh factors like maybe they already very poor


that uh if they are very poor they don't have the resources then perhaps they may not be able to capitalize on those opportunities ya


okay you see ah ya okay maybe ah right now maybe in terms of human err in india right maybe the humans per hour wage is actually cheaper than the cost of capital, to invest all those machines but obviously if you think about it right if let's say if err in the context of india in the context of india I will say that err if you can free up farm hands like maybe last time in order to to tend to a plot of land you need


ten people, maybe you need ten people but if let's say uh those people if that that plot of land if they manage to get some good uh some good machinery whereby you can free up farm hands like maybe instead of needing ten people to tend to a plot of land if you only requires two then yes


in the short run eight jobs maybe maybe out of the picture altogether but this eight jobs can be deployed somewhere else that is where all the data centers all moved to india or call center sorry call center not data center call center yes correct correct so err obviously ah


err, ya I will say it doesn't make it a make it fully obsolete or fully obsolete, but definitely in the short run there's going to be pain for for a a large group of individuals lah but definitely in the long run is going to be okay because uh the first major the first major row whereby machines actually start taking over was actually err the invention of the steam engine


in the industrial revolution, ya so that one is definitely there is no computers or what but that is perhaps the first technological shift, the first technological shift whereby, people starting to uh starting to be more efficient so that's why goods and services can be produced in larger quantities and in a much cheaper in a in uh how should I put it it will be cheaper and therefore it the goods and services will be more uh


will be more readily available to everybody lah everybody, ya so machines I will say that it may actually, make like those uh individual small small shops or small operations obsolete because they are not so efficient in going to be able to churn out all these goods and services that can compete with such


uh with such enterprises which requires machine adapt actually utilizes machines to make all these cheaper goods and services but err, even though if they were to, close let's say even though if they were to uh


close their business or if they were to err or if like the workers at the lower end were to lose their jobs right definitely ah it will not be the end of the world for them if they want to do some uh re education this and that if they are given the opportunity I believe they will be able to fill up


those roles whereby machines machines and other forms of improvements in technology actually open up those fields for them they will be able to fill up those roles but in the short run it's going to cost a lot of pain


ya but not but in the long run very hard to say in a long run very very hard to say, because if like those people if they really don't have the personal ambition to really uh really you want to keep up with the times that it really it's just too bad for them lah because if they just if they just remain as status quo then err then seriously is their problem already


can't be you can't have a whole society with beggars because if let's say if there is machines and a high technology enterprises who want to invest in that country definitely there will be a flow of foreign direct investments coming into the country so obviously in order for for the for them to be able to utilize


the workforce there definitely a certain form of err training needs to be err needs to be done, ya so if you take a look at china ever since when they first open up #sun zhen# which is their first ah, err somehow the economic district of china after #mao zedong# died lah when #xi jinping# actually not #xi jinping# sorry #deng xiaoping#


ya when #deng xiaoping# actually open up the area so uh that that area in #sun zhen# definitely it it attracted a lot of foreign direct investments whereby companies actually come in even though is still considered very very, is a considered a very socialist country over there but at that at just that area itself right just that area itself you actually see a lot of foreign direct investments coming in and as soon as as soon as the entire economy take off whereby


other foreign firms come in and then they themselves actually create their own uh create their own technologies and in this case machines uh okay I will just use machines and technology interchangeably so once they start to create this form of a, err technologies new jobs are open up suddenly last time from china which is err mainly a an agricultural society


suddenly you see them being engineers this and that okay like for example in their first tier and second tier uh cities but of course there will still be a bunch of people that will still be left behind left behind uh in the rural side as you said uh working in farms


in the long run it will be better as you can see like the GDP in china is actually progressing more and more so you uh in terms of the whole society of beggars is impossible one because it will cause a big political upheaval


confirm one is like imagine singapore everyone become beggars, then your general election you will vote you you you will definitely need to see some changes already what ya correct correct, so definitely the country usually wouldn't uh wouldn't fall into this sort of err


ya so definitely they will make sure every it definitely they will try to make sure that everyone has a has a job or like in terms of the companies they come in even if the labour is not skilled lah let's say the the


the the, Apple Apple factories in china correct like Foxconn doing all the doing all the iPhones obviously last time all these people when they first come in to make iPhones last time they all farmer what


ya but they you don't expect them to farm in in err the Foxconn factories so definitely is they have the training all this in order for for all these people to take up such jobs ya so in the long run wise it will be


it will actually people was moved towards a new uh into the new industry but of course, you have to make sure that other factors are in place so that people don't get permanently left behind by the end of day there is also a certain bit whereby it's up to the individual whether they want to catch with the times or not or they just rather just stay behind and just uh wish for the good old days again ah because it's never gonna come back ah


yup okay so you still have


yes , ya but it's a interesting topic lah but definitely I will say that err in terms of making machines making humans and their jobs obsolete uh, I would say that during the technology when there's a technology change right or where a lot of people lose their jobs right definitely there is a uh


confirm the those people who have access to capital IE those rich people lah definitely they will be there will there will be able use this opportunity to enrich themselves lah then like those people at the bottom bottom tier of society will be


getting more worse off lah in the shop right confirm one, yes correct


so do you have any other pointers you want to add


yes I clap already, stop clapping yes you're the proposition


euthanasia I remember watching some some stupid video they pronounce it as youth in asia, euthanasia ya continue


I think euthanasia is also known as assisted suicide like you know that you are conscious but you just want to just die already


sure


oh ya actually there's several subcategories of euthanasia like whether is it based on the patient's consent or like someone else determined for you lah


, okay in terms of uh me I'm the opposition , okay euthanasia shouldn't be legalised, because uh


okay because sometimes right humans can be quite fickle minded lah so maybe what happens like if they uh if they decide to uh like end their life themselves but then halfway through the, process as the lethal injections goes in or whatsoever what sort of stuff they


that uh happens to them to end their life uh as uh humanely as possible what happens if they suddenly halfway through the, process of them err committing this assisted suicide right then they suddenly regret


ya precisely so so err so, no what if like halfway inside during the procedure leh like maybe if it's like a


maybe if it's like maybe this is the dose of the lethal injection then halfway in they said, shit I don't want no pain one no pain one


so if let's say cannot think correctly then err in terms of like if the person


okay I understand but in terms of err not being when it's time to not be able to think properly and then so obviously you will need to give this uh the right for someone to to somehow like make decisions of your on your behalf to maybe say a loved one this at that correct


okay like for ya like for example if let's say you when you cannot think properly already right so obviously is your next of kin who will be making the decision for you correct right so


but in certain cases right what, it can also be possible that uh the your next of kin may be, making a decision that is good for themselves but actually not good for you


ya correct so it's like so uh in terms of it being uh legalized or not I still think that uh taking a human life is not, true especially since I'm in the opposition camp


, ya but maybe uh if let's say err jocelyn if let's say if you say it's supposed to be legalised right so under what circumstances will someone


uh uh should someone go for this err euthanasia treatment


no wills are definitely ~egalised but legalised but the thing is that err in this context the suicide or like uh , ya suicide or other forms of intentional ending a person's life in the name of reducing his or her suffering is not legalised as of now because everyone is going to die lah that's why the wills is definitely going to be there so so that there will be no disputes


so I think the will and the euthanasia is definitely separate topic


!wah! this is very hard to argue err


okay maybe uh it can be uh legalizing certain certain forms of a certain forms of err


euthanasia lah like maybe if someone is already deemed brain dead, then maybe a best thing is the best thing to do is to just let them go but in terms of maybe things such as a like, you yourself personally like maybe fallen terminally ill but you just decide to end your life


so somehow I would already start to think of certain things that may happen if this is fully legalized but definitely if if err if it's legalized definitely that needs to be some soft framework to actually stop err people from abusing it all


or profiting from it's too uh much because I will say that because euthanasia wise okay I may be wrong but it can be a form of lethal injection to make it as painless as possible, what if what if companies ah that come up with this chemical want to meet their sales target


definitely they need to sell as much of this uh chemicals out in order to make a good profit, so they can because of this the doctors may if they are the doctors if they are uh uh financially incentivize to actually uh like like


if you like got like some sort of terminal illness but if the patient doesn't want to doesn't want to go through some treatment you can say okay lah just euthanasia lah no problem one, I have this settled ya


no lah like for example it you also they also need to make it in such a way right whereby uh, the companies they are making this product or the doctors who are into who are specializing in administering these forms of chemicals right they also cannot


err advertise a bit too much, they I will say that definitely err to be legal that's why I said that if like let say if it's fully legalize and like companies wise and the and like


people are able to just market it freely like say this is the this is the best thing that can happen to you and then some people are dead some people as you know ah, people are usually emotionally driven, they may actually say they may actually here that eh not bad not bad then like they said I have #han zheng dou lao# lah anyway


I cannot hear you,


ya correct so in terms of it they really have to make sure that people don't uh


it's like something whereby even if is even if they decide to legalise right they shouldn't be able to like publicise it a bit too much something maybe like something like maybe cigarettes like that like yes


you are allowed to smoke but you don't see cigarette advertisements on TV anymore or like even social media ya, anyway no price on right yes yes


ah ya, but I'm just thinking whether the financial uh the the insurance company will pay out my my payout ah, no but your life insurance eh your term insurance eh


a term insurance payout and they usually cover until ninety nine years old or what, does have uh ya so than everyone just buy life insurance already before euthanasia just cash out only then the death benefit they just forget it


, illegal you can just go anywhere else to do it what I mean it's just whether you you are rich enough to just go to the other side to do it


just do it first there's no turning back eh, there's no turning back eh you do it first you cannot come back and say eh Paiseh I don't want, you cannot sia let's let's leave it open up to individual


so the in order to give people the ya correct ya


for me ya for me ya lah actually at the end on the day I would, think that it's will be that is will be better to legalize lah, because uh like sometimes old age then already so uh


maybe you're in pain like every day then you need a lot of medicine and then the society is aging so rather than, devoting more resources for all these old folks that probably just want to die anyway rather than wasting the resources on them might as well just let it go


correct what right if because , or maybe you can come up with such a a a euthanasia aging home uh yes can sell this concept eh cannot lah


, can sell this concept say that at the end game I'll let you enjoy as much as you want


ya because only that place is legalized what, other places not legalized what, ya but no one can stop you from not dying in another country eh


but what about like those but maybe is like if let's say if it's illegal here since right now it's illegal here what about those people whereby they are, they are poor but then they are suffering every day


commit suicide wise it will be very messy lah, look at that point in time you probably wouldn't care already lah , okay this topic is getting a bit morbid ah


moderator can end already or still have to continue, okay my stance is that it should be legalised, but err you must make sure that the the the


person that's undergoing this is err has actually checked out, all the requirements in order for this uh euthanasia to be administered lah, like they have a terminal illness this and that or really what's beside really the final final choice than the they really need to uh check all the boxes and then the doctor will make the last call for them


ah same, ya it magic


yup okay hor ya


okay okay debate topic one animals life should be as equally valued as human life


point one this kind of value judgment cannot be generalized point two animal can survive without humans whereas humans require animal to survive for example animal err humans need to eat meat such as chicken pork beef and other types of meat


then the third point will be human caused more harm than good to the environment than animals for example man-made uh infrastructure air pollution and et cetera


but animal life is still considered as a living thing as they has feeling and they like they can sense what's happening to them and it'll be very harmful if


uh we treat them equally as human


but there are some people that treat animal as their own children and they love them like their own children


but there's animal cremation services like they actually provide funerals for the animal just like how humans after they've passed away you have


funeral services and animal also do have the same the same service so that would mean like it will shows that animal life should be as equally valued as human life


but isn't that what every living things will do when they are threatened, they will do everything to protect themselves so when the animals feel threatened they would naturally want to do something to protect themselves and when we humans feel threatened we will definitely do something to protect ourselves too


if that's the case the world will not have any murder case already what


(ppc) like for animals, they usually when they threaten human they are humans are not the one being murdered because humans have


more objects around them that they can use to attack the animals


but we never actually consider the impact of this action, that will like, the animals will suffer from it because like what we do eat meat like we both eat


chicken pork beef, fish and et cetera but we will never consider the impact of this action on animals


that's a good point, but what about those couples that cannot have their own child and they do not have enough, financial support to adopt


so they will rather want to spend it you know to to raise a dog instead


lions they won't they won't attack you like


when they wish is just when they feel threatened they will attack you because they feel threatened, and the other reason of the reason why lion will attack you is because they might be hungry and they have no food to eat, and what are the chances of you encountering a wild lion in the future


but all animals have the ability to suffer in the same way, just like humans we feel pain pleasure fear frustrations and loneliness so do the animals


so they have the equal rights to be treated the same as human, like no one wants to live, in pain


and and to be lived and to live miserably, so animals should be treated, as equal as human


in conclusion I think that animal life should be treated as equally as human life


as both animals and humans feel pain, feel lonely and we have feeling so they can feel whatever we are feeling right now so it's the more correct way is to just treat them as equal as human life and not treat them as our food or as


a, source of entertainment


okay okay, debate topic two change is always good because the first point of why change is always good because you are pushed out of the comfort zone life in the comfort zone is easy you simply follow a routine


then you can predict the consequences so outside of the comfort zone, your assumptions will change your opinions mindset and beliefs, will change too and you will find new ways to find out who you really are and what you really believe in


yup so what's your point on that statement


then if we don't change, if we are still like living in the past where we do not have technology and all these kind of smartphone, laptop we won't be


looking at each other through a screen right now this is all because of changes human changed, and with our our brains developed then we managed to, made up new things such as technology and technology is always changing and improving


so i've will feel that changing is always for the good


without changes things will stay the same and ultimately we will all stay stagnant and die if we were still all and we still live in the


dinosaur era and things are not changing we will humans, will not be the one living as we'll be hiding around or hiding away from dinosaurs as they are the predators and we are the prey


so changes allows the world to improve consistently and move towards a better future


but there are also people who changed for the better like they will like for example maybe they used to be very rebellious when they were young so when they became more mature they learned how to put


what is their priority in front of their life so they will work hard towards their goals so changes might not be bad changes might not be always bad it can be it can be good as well


but most elderly these days they have all they're all improving as they are all learning how to use smartphone how to watch their past drama using their phone to catch up on their drama when they've missed


they also learn how to find new recipe to cook for their family using their smartphone so I feel that these changes is good


so that's why a change have to be made like so the, the elderly will have to learn to change and adapt that they, cannot use their smartphone for too long so in order to protect their eyes and their health


they have to go for some outdoor activities maybe a stroll in the park so if they didn't done so last time they can always do it now, so this is considered a change in their lifestyle so a change is always good


change changes makes


you more flexible and more adaptable in your life so whenever you ~counter encounter any, difficulties in your life you will know how to change yourself and adapt to the situation so that will make that will make you a better person so you have more confidence in your life and more positive ah impact on yourself


but if you change you can you might find easier way out from the situation that you are in that you can find you'll find easier solution to your problems than you being frustrated with with


your fixed mindset and attitude towards that that situation so if you learn how to change, you will make you be you will be able to get out of that situation easier and you will feel better


but if you are open to changes you'll be able to have more fun in your life as you will


be able to, learn more things, and this will enrich your life more


in conclusion I feel that change is always good as you've it'll force us out of our comfort zone to , to change for example no if technology didn't change we won't be where we are right now uh having a meeting through an app


so therefore I support the statement that change is always good


okay , debate debate topic three abortion should be banned, life begins in it


abortion are cruel and painful so, abortion violates the right of the life of the foetus, the baby is growing and the baby did not choose to be there so they are not to blame so I feel that abortion should be banned


but murder is illegal in all fifty states with no restriction then why is killing a baby any different the baby heartbeat can be detected at around five and a half to six week afters after they are developed


so and the baby can hear the mother voice around one two months when when it's developed so why is it okay to kill a baby


but


the baby is still innocent so like you can really feel the heartbeat and his movement when it's inside the stomach so won't be killing it very cruel


a a new point for why abortion should be banned because, abortion has harmful mental and physical consequences for the women involved so there's a research in the US where two hundred and seventy eight women of reproductive age fifteen to forty nine was interviewed


and the response was response rate was ninety three two eight, so the data collected through a questionnaire with two parts the results were one third of the respondent has experienced psychology psychological side effect


such as depression worrying that they are not being able to be pregnant again and abnormal eating behaviour, so these are consequences if the women have an abortion


so that I feel that psychological effect form abortion is usually neglected so I feel that abortion should be banned


okay from the research the results there's , the women will feel that their self esteem will decrease and they will live in nightmare and guilt and regret because they have


chose to abort the baby with their loved one so they will be very guilty for what they have then done so I feel abortion should be banned


even if you are putting the mother life at risk but the baby is not even getting a chance to live, so but so why not take a risk and try to save live both lives instead of sacrificing one


but it's not the baby's fault and the baby's and the babies have the right, to to be alive and to be


give birth to so, and you can always have more nutritions by eating, more nutritious food when you're pregnant, so that you will have enough so that your body can take the


can take the pain when you're giving birth


abortion is so considered as a murder because killing an innocent life is wrong so


why does it make does it uh cause the baby to


just the baby has the rights, to be born


you can always put the child up for adoption, if you can't financially support it and raising it so you can just put it for adoption so is a better


way than adopting it like to abort it


they won't be unwanted as they're out there's some couples in the world that cannot give birth so they were rather adopt, a baby when they're when they're just being give birth and did not they do not have any memories of their parents and also they they can implant a new identity to them so that when when the child


when the baby is a bit older they will only know that that's their parents and they will not know that they are actually adopted


but they are not totally unwanted because that their foster parents will still love them as much, and they will feel more loved with their foster parents, than their biological parents because the biological parents does not even want to have them in the first place so


giving them to the foster parents is is still is better for the child rather than not giving a right to live


in conclusion I think abortion should be banned, because abortion will have a harmful mental and physical consequences for the woman and abortion is also considered a


murder to me as it is still a living thing as it still had like it's already it already got the heartbeat there so it's already alive so it's considered a murder, so I believe that abortion should not be banned eh should be banned sorry


debate topic one


okay, err human lives should not be as equally valued as human lives because humans are more intelligent than animals, they have the ability to speak up, and make decisions, a system value according to brain complexity and social intelligence is the most reasonable option we had


humans also make, most valuable contributions to the world like working and keep the economy running therefore, it should be valued above animals, humans are also capable of doing advanced things which sets us apart from animals such as using tools


and we have a physical advantage of using our hands as compared to animals that's why we should be, more valued than, animals


uh and and that, if all animal lives are equally valued as human lives no humans will be eating meat


but if it is it is treated equally as human lives and humans are eating, animal meat then, shouldn't humans be eaten too


uh we usually, see, humans err having animal, as pets


yes and that show that they value animal lives but doesn't mean that is equally valued as human life


however in this nature, we live in humans are more dominant, than animals, and in some cases people would prefer to save the life of a human as compared to an animal


as they are deemed as, a threat to human, like gorilla


and human beings have the capability, of self reflection and have, higher intelligence level than animals


humans also possess, the faculty of speech being able to voice out their thoughts and opinions, which is completely different from that of animals and


even though we can, sometimes understand what, an animal wants like let's say if they are being threatened, they would exert some form of


dominance to the human, but we might not, fully understand what they are trying to communicate with us


yes but, we might not necessarily, kill the other party, if we feel threatened let's say humans threatened each other, usually is by verbal


but then animals they might just charge at each other and, and kill their predator


but then in this world there are more, uh human rights, than animal rights, so that's why , err we usually stand up for our own rights but animals


cannot stand up for their rights


and humans also have a moral duty to protect, our own lives over the lives of animals, and also that usually humans have pets, they take care of their pets instead of animals


looking after humans, that's why human lives are more valuable


err even though many would think that animal can be, a lifelong animal like dogs, can be a lifelong friend, to humans but the fact that


some people would think, that instead of feeding an animal, people would prefer to have their own child, as it can be


a valuable asset to the economy in the future


you need financial support to raise a dog too, although it may not be, as, as expensive, as raising a child but there are still require enough


financial support for the animal


humans also have, a better ability to control our anger as compared to animals, sometimes when we meet, fierce, animals like lions they might not be able to control their anger and we will just lose our life


maybe when we go to another country for an open zoo, experience, when you're in the car and the animals are not, well trained


then they might lose their patience and just attack you and also, there're there is a zoo, for humans to visit animals, but, animals do visit human


we are not kept in captivity as an exhibit as compared to animals, that's why, our lives are more valuable, than animals


I feel, in conclusion I feel that animal lives should not be as equally valued as human lives, as, we are more capable


human nature has more capability than animals, and we can live in peace with, most animals, but then animals


some wild animals may not be able to live in peace with animal with humans, as their natural nature is, to attack anything that threatens them, but humans might


protect themselves, in another way other than, seeing the other party as


debate topic, two


but, change for the sake of changing is a, risk if you change, because you think that, grass on the fence other side is, always greener that might not be true


sometimes , you change for the better, can leave, us regretting the change because we might not need it just because we want to change


and it might result in, something worst, than before


yes better technology, in, our life is better but it will, result in negative environment impacts like


even though technology can improve, humans quality of life, like example trade transport, business and, laptop screens


wi-fi but, it can lead to negative consequence, such as, uh increased greenhouse gases, and, greenhouse gases has increased tremendously over the past one hundred and fifty years


and close to one point three million square meters of forest, cover has been destroyed since nineteen, ninety, in order to accommodate, for the increase, in


human population to build infrastructure, and other man-made err man-made buildings for


the humans to enjoy a better quality of life, so the change is not always good as it can lead to, larger, negative impact, on the world


change is not always good, but, necessary, so, you say that if we don't change then we will stay stagnant yes it's, correct because it's necessary that we have some changes so that we can we can live a better


life in the future but, it's not always good, as, some people might change, in a way that is good for themselves but not beneficial for the other parties and might have


might have, more negative impacts on their family and friends, even though the change is good for themselves


but then because change, isn't necessary in our life it's good for, the younger generations like technology we learn to adapt and learn, but for the


older generation to them it's, a frustration and a hassle for them to learn, as they, don't as they


are old and it's very difficult for them to learn something, new at this age


yes changes like these are good, but, can also possess, other, can also other negative impacts on the elderly like let's say they keep looking at the screen there is UV ray and then this will give more


this there'll be more problems arising, like health issues


there is also a common belief that a rolling stone gathers no moss, this is true for people who don't want to work and look for easier alternatives, frequent changes don't help in the long run


and, a change is necessary but only at it's optimum time so if we always decide to change, it might not be, always good as we keep changing and we don't


we don't, we don't benefit from the change


there are also many changes in today's society, that are helpful but not all change is good, for example a university having budget cuts, and placing certain organisations in the wrong department cause of not wanting to go outside of their administration


most of the time change, is to make one or two issues better, but in the end, it will cause more problems, uh to arise and might introduce new problems into the society


I also agree that, change change can, let us step out of our comfort zone and experience new things, but, but it may lead to


undesirable, circumstances that, we might not expect, like, the experience we gained


are not are not, beneficial for ourselves


change is also not always good, as, practise makes perfect, so, sometimes we have to do the same thing over and over again instead of changing another way of doing it


so that we can perfect, the, the thing that we want to do well in, and changing the way we do it, might might make it worse


but sometimes we, we keep doing we change the way we do things might not, might not be


the initial, reason why we started doing, the thing that we wanted to do in the first place so changing the way we do it might defeat the purpose of it, even though it might be an easier way out


but, sometimes we change because our surrounding changed, and not because we want to change, for the better and then and that


we change for the sake of changing because of our surroundings might not always be good, because we just want to adapt


and for example we want to change a new job because the pay is better and you want to have, more money but, the workload and the stress, you have to, endure would be worse


and more that it might not be, bearable for you to, to accept


that's why I think that change is not always good as, there are more negative impacts, than positive impacts for everyone


in conclusion, change is not always good, because, the improvement in technology has resulted in more negative impacts on the environment, and


before technology even existed our, our earth, was healthier the weather wasn't so hot, and we don't have, a lot of air pollution


and humans, are relatively healthier, as you are not exposed to a lot of UV rays, but because of the change


in technology, more problems arise, so I feel that change is not always a good thing


debate topic three


but, abortion should not be banned, because when abortion, is heavily restricted or banned in a country women from poor rural and marginalised communities, suffer the most


as they might not have enough financial support for the newborn baby as they are already living in poverty and they do not and they don't even have enough to feed themselves and their own family members


so, if they have a newborn baby it will make their lifes worse and the baby will suffer even more by entering, this world and living in poverty


this also makes the people living in poverty this also increases, the population of people living in poverty making it more difficult, to ease the situation


because abortion is, sometimes necessary, when the pregnancy is unwanted and


that it can be a result of a crime for example rape incest or child abuse, and the woman did not want that to happen but she was forced, into such situation


therefore she wouldn't want, to live, she wouldn't want to have a baby with, the rapist and will choose to go for abortion and


if she does not abort the child, she will live with, the impression that this baby belongs to the, rapist who raped her which leaves a permanent scar in her life


yes it is cruel for the baby but having the, , having the woman gave birth, to the baby is equally cruel for both parties as the baby will be unwanted when it's born


and the mother will feel that, it is, a child of that she have a, child with someone, that


she doesn't even want to have any relation with


but, sometimes abortion is necessary, as the child of the pregnancy would have an unacceptable quality of life let's, uh for example serious physical handicaps or serious mental defects


and, when the baby is born it will, have, it's very difficult for the baby and the mother too, to


to it's very difficult for the mother to take care of the baby, as as, she will need a lot of financial support and and emotional support for the child


and therefore the mom would choose not to want to go through such, difficult times and therefore would decide to abort and maybe try again for another child even though it might be difficult


but but some, abortion is not a must but it's always an option, for the mother, because if the parents, if the parents


are not ready, to, to have a child, then the mom would maybe, decide to abort as


instead of letting the, the, child suffer in the in this life, because they are not ready to be parents, they will did rather abort the child so


abortion should not be banned, and woman, have their own rights, to whether they want they want the baby


and allow it, to have, physical reproductive, changes into, changes to their body, so if the, woman does not want such change to their body


they can choose to abort, and not give birth to a child, that they do not want


and in many places, where abortion is heavily restricted or completely banned the lives of, women and girls, in that country, is


very difficult, because, sometimes they are forced to give birth even though their lives, the, woman's life is in danger, and


but the woman that gave birth to the baby will lose her life just because abortion is banned and she has no choice, to say that she want, to go for an abortion


and sometimes, the girls that get pregnant, are around the age of twelve to sixteen they're unaware of what's happening in their body because they do not know


because they are not mature enough to know, and, then they will go they will choose to go for abortion but because abortion is banned they, have to give birth and their body might not be able


to take, the pain because, they, their body is not fully, developed as they're still going through puberty, and growing


so the baby in her body might be too, too strong and might not have enough nutrients to survive, then the baby that she gave birth to might have some problems


but because abortion is banned, the women have no rights to say, that they do not, that they want to go for an abortion and they do not want to give birth, and


I believe that the women have the rights, to to make, their own decision and should not be, decided by the law because


abortion is banned, in that country


but if in the case of, in the case of rape, and child abuse if the, woman decide to give birth


she wouldn't want, to let any, innocent life live in this world by being unwanted


but the, adopted child will, would hate themselves for being in this world because, because the child is, born because


the mother was raped and unwanted by both, the parents, and it will leave a permanent scar on the children's life as well


okay but in conclusion I still feel that abortion should not be banned, as, the woman should have their rights, to make their own decision instead of, being tied down


by the law just because, abortion is banned in their country, and there are also many reasons why woman wants to go for abortion like for example crimes


unwanted pregnancy or, or serious, mental defects to, the unborn baby, so they wouldn't want


to uh let, the child live a very difficult life, and sometimes the parents might not be, financially prepared, to take care of another child so they would decide to go for abortion


okay, part one debate topic one


okay, okay, so my stand is yes sex work should be legal so if sex work is legalised, it will become as legitimate as other line of work and clients who assault workers can be appropriately punished by the law


this will ensure that the safety of, sex workers work on the job, is taken care of, so legalising sex work will better ensure proper safety, measures for adults within the industry, if it is legalised and regulated the government can have their own regulations and rules on business and making it


making it safe and, making it safe for the people in the industry, so for example, for sex workers in south africa they, did not report any armed robbery or raid to the police as they are afraid of being arrested


because their work is illegal and that experience with the police is a bad one, so this allows them not to, report crimes and this would compromise their safety and also this is to legalise


sex workers' job this would present dignity and equality to them, sometimes there is no choice, and it is only the only choice for certain people to have this job, so and also this job is still work done to earn that money, and it is not the intention of the worker to kill or harm people so I feel that


it is okay to be legalised, so for example, says that, for her sex work is not one job option it is the only option


so she figured that that she is a very in a vulnerable position, thus, she stayed quiet when the police busted her house in Brooklyn, this shows no equality and power in being such a position as it seems like a crime to her


so if it is legalised and regulated the government will, protect these sex workers and, hence they will be safe and sound and they can perform their job properly, so I think that in


overall I feel that sex work should be legalised


okay , I I hear you, and for, the fact that you pointed out about the, equality and also, how, some sex workers might not be uh literate enough and smart enough to read the, the the points but I feel that


this is only some and, if they're really like not understanding the terms and qualities, if, it is legalised the government would also have some people taking care of this, this


this area and they also can help to, make it simpler and more condensed for the sex workers to understand what are the what are the conditions required and also, what is needed and what is, needed for them to follow the rules and to carry out these safely and also in the right manner


so I feel that , I feel like it is still should be legalised, and for the fact that you said you you mentioned that, different types of sex workers involve, in buying and selling of sex work, that is okay to me and you said that it is also very expensive as


such work , such work is expensive, but I feel that it, such workers they still need a living, and


all of us we just need some money and we'll also just need, to work for a living, so this is not that we are harming people it is harmless, so I feel it is shouldn't be illegal, so it's just that, some people want something and


these, sex workers they just have to give something, so, it's just a win win situation no one is losing anything, except for the fact that it if it's not legalised it is, it possesses a threat, to these workers as sometimes it might not be very safe for them indeed to work in this environment


so ya I still stand by my my side and ya you can add on if you wish


okay so I think that it is still important because like I said sometimes, it is the only choice of such people to work as, in the sex work industry


so I feel that every, every person should given should have a chance to work and also gain some, money so , I understand where you're coming from about the education but, some people they just like in singapore also


you can see that there are a lot of foreigners and a lot of jobs, a a lot of jobs are taken so there are not many opportunities for such people and if we do not, have this legalised they would deprive of


such, opportunities and, this will make it also like I said dangerous for these sex workers because they might go into those black market and also, have these services in it so this would, this would be a threat to them


and I believe that , this is not very good for the us in in a sense because some people might like is you see in news, there are many people who go this illegal sites and, and they still work


it despite being illegal, ya so yeah


okay I hear you about I feel that, the root cause might not only be education in a sense but also because, let's say about family background


this might be also a reason for them to to turn out to this, this solution because , sometimes they might have too many too many burden on them and this caused them to, need some


let's say more income in a sense, so this might be uh in a sense where, if it is legalised it provides them another route for them, to gain money, in a sense


no I don't have anything else to add thank you


okay okay thank you yes I agree to some of your point stated but the fact that the, the safety of these workers are compromised


still, is still a big factor as to why it should be legalised, so


okay I hear you so just to wrap up, my reasons are also, uh mainly because of, the dignity and equality of these sex workers, it because , legalising sex work would allow them to


have, equal stand with other other, form of work and also give them a chance to earn money and also not be, , and also not be stigmatised by the other, industries in the in singapore ya


and my other point is about the crime work which


okay, part two debate topic two


okay, so charity work should be made compulsory my stand is yes charity work should be made compulsory, this is because, I see this topic more regards to the student's point of view and it should be compulsory as it sets the right foundation to people about charity work in the first place


so for, an example would be mister marcus chee he is the strategic partnership director at the national volunteer and, centre it, it recognises he said that he recognises that not everyone is aware of or has the opportunity to be exposed to


the varied needs within the community, so, there is a role to play in providing some ~work of, some form of framework to facilitate and support the process, he said, so I really agree with this point as, charity work


it being compulsory it sets the tone right at the start for students and, it, gives students the exposure in the first place, so this brings me to my second point where exposure is, given to students if charity work is made compulsory


so , back in two thousand and ten you as you know there is a community involvement programme called CIP, and it infuses with students certain values so that when we grow up there are many things, that , once exposed to students might might go on their own will


to do, volunteer work and charity work, so mister george yeo he highlighted that the value of overseas community work, in terms of how it allows volunteers to have a deeper understanding of cultures, and, understanding of people as well


so, I feel that charity work should be made compulsory as this allows students to have a view on how society works at first and, this would cultivate the interest and if they want, they have, the freedom to pursue this in the future as, well as


as we give them this opportunity it might change their point of view starting from a young age and this is very important and crucial as, given a at least a little exposure, these students will know the sense, of belonging that they can give


to the community and also, some, there're circumstances where some kids they might not even have, the chance to go see an orphanage or old folks' home, so having , charity work to be made compulsory is very important


so for my third point, charity work is also very beneficial for everyone and is, as it will teach some valuable life lessons to, everyone that is volunteering, so making it a requirement can be a doorway


to let people open up their eyes to many different viewpoints, and, this will make them more involved in the community, in a sense and this will this might, make them be interested in the future and this will also increase


the number of people interested in voluntary work


okay, to answer your question about money and goods, I think that charity work, I agree that sometimes, uh it also consists of money and goods, being involved but I feel that


although this is important I would, I would prefer to focus charity work, towards volunteering as this is , this is very important and I feel that , by volunteering it gives a people a sense of


satisfaction and also, get, to see the outside world, so this would enable them to open up their eyes, to see the many different types of circumstances that people are facing, for money and goods wise I feel, that this


probably there could be a clause that uh excludes, people from the lower lower end, as, this would only for suitable for those who can, provide it so I feel that this money and goods portion can be excluded from the term charity work


as this I would prefer that , this would be more of an initiative from the people instead of being compulsory, as for money and uh as for time I feel that, this should be compulsory because, I feel that it will give uh


these people who volunteer a different sense a different, sense, compared to just giving money, because by seeing as I say by seeing the, circumstances where other people are facing, this would let them


open up their minds and also be more, appreciative for example in their life, err and, and you you mentioned if it differs for the different, types of people about charity work I would I would say yes it differs I would prefer that I would suggest that


this would be more towards the students because I feel that like you said students have many a lot of time, and I feel that, it is very important to start from at a young age to be involved in community work and charity work, as this would set their mindset


to be on the right ground and also, this would allow them to, see their interest in charity and community work, so for the for, the mid age people I feel that


probably, I I know that some workplace they allow charity, work as type of a type of bonding for employees, so I feel that this is already made, an effort made, and so ya my


my audience is still mainly the, students as, like you said there are there are many they have a lot of time and, I feel that it is important to start from young


for your topic about opportunity cost I feel that , charity work although it should be compulsory it might not need to have a large amount of time invested in, charity work so I feel that you've been saying that


there there are opportunity cost involved in this, but what what we want is not, a huge amount of time and money invested in charity work but, a suitable amount of time to make it compulsory such that everyone has a chance to see and also like I said


have a sense of the environment and, I understand that you said that, there are circumstances where allows people to understand such as people going on MRTs, and stuff but I feel like some


some people they might be so ignorant about the the outside world, and, keep focusing on their work as to, it that, extend where they do not, associate themselves with outside work hence charity work would enable them to have a better light and understanding


so, some people also do not take MRTs for example so, I feel that, there are people who do not know the outside world better, and


and I feel that, adults they also should, to adjust my previous point adult also should, invest in some time in charity work as this is, important also, and, although yes it might take sometime away which would


affect but I feel that it has to be a there there should be a work life balance thing and they should also, have some time to invest, back and give back to the community and not only


just think about work in a sense


okay, hold on ah okay I feel that I hear you about the


and not just time but this also, might not show that people are willing to invest money


so I feel that in a sense, charity work should be made compulsory, and if money place into, into the picture, like I said some people might not err might not give money and might not give their time also so charity work should be made compulsory in a sense where


some form of benefits are given to the, to the others part of the and also the lower end, and this would also help them to see, to see the other world better


benefit both parties in the end


ya okay oh, okay , yes


part three debate topic three, okay, the death penalty should be, the death penalty should be abolished and my stand is yes, so my first reason is that


there are there can be errors and mistakes, which might end up sending an innocent person to his or her death in regards with regards to execution, so, there have been several cases in which people have been executed


and, it it turns out that they are actually innocent, so such as the case of cameron todd willingham , a father who is who was convicted for arson, and killing his own children, he was executed then after which evidence came up and shows that


showed that he is innocent and he never started the fire, so this shows that , this shows why the death penalty should be abolished, as, it can lead to innocent people being put to their deaths


and this, and even if only one innocent person is put to death, it should be very it should be a very serious matter as it, it still cost a life, and my second argument is that


it does not deter crime at all, so it is something that can be seen as like a threat, to people to not commit such crimes, and these crimes I meant is homicides and murder so uh science have shown that sometime murders


have occurred is because they are in the heat of the moment and, and they tend to talk about how they got so angry and, very passionate about the moment where they did not think of the consequences of the actions, so, I feel that the death penalty should be abolished because it does not work as a deterrent


and, it does not reduce the crime at all, there is no credible evidence that the death penalty deters crime more effectively than a prison term so I would recommend that, , instead of death penalty


we should give them a life prisonment for example, and also for my last


for my last example, death penalty is also very expensive in a sense because, it, it is a long process for the authorities to think about the death penalty, and this would this would mean that it


cost a huge sum, and this is also more that the sum is also more than, a life prison imprisonment in a sense, so I feel that death penalty is costing a lot of money, and it should be abolished


so, if you think about the lives that will live if the death penalty is abolished, do you think it is fair for this, to be an, sort of an eye to eye, situation where what where the death penalty is given to the, to the person


due to the lost of another life for example, I don't think this is reasonable enough, for, and hence I feel that the death penalty should be abolished to be given another, form of punishment


okay, I will I will address your question about the nature of the punishment, I think that being, having life imprisonment is also a, a choice that will, form that is a, serves as a form of punishment to these people as


it confines them in that small little room, and it and it also , not give them the opportunity to go out in a sense and they are in that room, for life


so this can be a form of punishment to them as well, and and this is for example if, it would be if it is a, error of us, it can be reversible


and whereas, the death penalty it cannot be reversed, so this brings me back to my point where it should be abolished because, of this, fact that death penalty it cannot be reversed, and


like I said even though there's only, a few people that are innocent and wrongly punished, but I, I feel that this would bring us a point where it is still important for us, to


treasure the lives of people and not, and even though singapore let's say, i'm not questioning the, the lawyers and their credibility on, and their eye sight but I feel that sometimes errors can happen and if don't and if it


in the event that it happens I feel that having the death penalty would, might make them feel guilty also in a sense and also, by having the death penalty it cannot be reversed, so having the life imprisonment would be better would be a better choice


and I feel that the point where you say that had, it increases the crime where, if, the death penalty is is not abolished


I feel that this is wrong because, I feel that , like I said in my previous points it does, it does not, deter the crime at all, and I feel that


having life imprisonment in a sense it would let the, prisoners reflect, and also think of, what they did wrongly in a sense and this would also give, other people in a, uh a view of to as to why they shouldn't


commit those crime, and by having life imprisonment to some people it might feel like, their world is taken away because they cannot do the things that they want for example and this would, also serve, as an opportunity for them to think and reflect


before they act, so, ya I feel like the death penalty should be abolished as it, it the


increase of crime is not really correlated to it at all


okay, okay I feel like we the future is not planned, so we cannot really see that okay


there are no no innocent people that are being, sentenced the death penalty, so I still feel that it should be abolished because of, mistakes that can happen in the future, so I'm


and this is not depriving the society of their safety as well because I feel that, having, uh an alternative such as life imprisonment this would also, serve a sense of, punishment to the to the, person and


many people like I said they would not want life imprisonment as well, so this will also deter the crime and


and, ya I I do not see the correlation between the society's, health and safety with, the death penalty not being able to be abolished


I agree that the death penalty is more severe than life imprisonment and that is why I feel that it should be abolished because it cannot be reversed, so , although I agree that okay, there are many many tiers of


punishment and many tiers of, crimes that have been committed but however I feel that, having a life imprisonment is severe enough, for, criminals who committed crimes as


I feel that, that is the best alternative, and it would be and it, and the most importantly it is reversible it yes that's why


so I so in in conclusion I feel that the death penalty should be abolished because it, it will not cost and a a life of a innocent person in a sense where mistakes


are, made and it also does not deter crime


okay pressed, part one debate topic one but it still says sex work should be legal on my page is that like it still says sex work should be legal on my page


ah, the promise oh, oh oh, oh okay ya


okay so I think from my point of view proposition needs to understand that, not having sex work not being legalise is the status quo right now and it is the burden of proposition to prove to us why we should defy the current status quo


what is a good enough reason a very strong reason to change the status quo when everything is there's no huge problems in the system right now, and, when proposition talks about legalisation she she puts it in a way where it is the best option for sex workers however I would like all of us to consider this point of view that


when proposition here is proposing a policy that is to change for example in the context of singapore she's proposing a policy where singapore we already only partially criminalise prostitution


condense this debate I would like to define sex work as the buying and selling of sexual services by two consenting parties because that would make it more easier to revolve the discussion around and proposition here today needs to prove to us why we should have a policy that legalises sex work when it is only partially


criminalised in singapore and from what the two points she has given to us so far I don't see a strong enough justification as why we should overturn the status quo because legalising sex work only allows the government to keep track of the sex workers however the main problem with legalising sex work


is that it's often very expensive and time consuming sex workers themselves are often lowly educated people that may not keep themselves abreast of current news and policies and even if the government to were to roll out such a policy these sex workers may not be literate enough


to comprehend this policy that's being rolled out for them and if they themselves don't take advantage of this policy and get themselves licensed or register themselves with the government it defeats the entire purpose, so that is one issue that one that's my biggest issue with proposition's current policy that she's proposing to make sex work legal and secondly the point on preserving dignity and ensuring equality by legalising sex work i'm pretty sure that


the reason why people discriminate against sex workers is not because whether there's as a national policy in place but more so it's a personal opinion it's a personal discrimination against sex workers where these prejudices have been built up from since


young and this is not something simply a government policy can change it and it requires a mindset change and by just trivialising it to making it a policy and then, by trivializing made to by by having the government come up with a policy to legalise sex work won't simply brush off all these prejudices and discrimination against sex workers that have been formed over the years so I think proposition needs to give us something more concrete to prove to us why sex work should be legal


I think proposition I think proposition needs to recognise that she still hasn't told us the cornerstones of her policy because essentially legalising sex work is a policy in itself and i've seen no rules or like how this policy is gonna be enacted besides


oh okay, sorry let me continue what I was saying so I was saying proposition needs to recognise that , sex legalising sex work is a policy in itself and I have seen no no mechanism provided as to how this policy is gonna be enacted besides what proposition has briefly touched on just now


and besides that , legalising sex work as I said just now is a new policy and in the if we were to put it in the context of singapore it's going against very traditional conservative asian cultures and beliefs and I think that on the basis that


everyone needs to earn a living like we should legalise sex work because it provides workers with a source of income , singapore's partial criminalisation of sex workers which means that we don't punish the buying and selling of sex already allows them to earn an income themselves there's no need to take this further step to legalise sex work because we are not depriving them of an income in singapore itself already


and I believe this is the country we are talking about when we are if you are to push out a policy and also, on the point of condensing terms and conditions sex workers like that was the briefly touched mechanism proposition has proposed I feel that


on top when I mention illiteracy , it goes beyond just condensing the policy to make it into bite size pieces for sex workers , educating sex workers themselves would already provide another alternative source of income for sex workers they wouldn't need to be sex workers if they were literate that is why that is the most common reason for females turning to sex work so


if proposition goes by education for sex workers then that defeats the whole point of the that defeats the whole point of the policy, because when sex workers are educated they can find others they can find other means sources of income which is not as degrading as sex work so the main point here i'm trying to bring across is that what proposition has given us so far is not good enough a reason to overturn the status quo


and I would like to see perhaps better reasons to substantiate proposition's stand behind legalising sex work


alright proposition I think you need to understand the meaning of partial criminalisation that just means that partial criminalisation means the singapore government only criminalises sex workers if they have brothels or street solicitation, that means that even if there was armed robberies even if people


take sexual action against these sex workers without their consent they still can be penalised by the government for these crimes and sex workers still can go to the police station to report these crimes without facing any legal action against themselves, so here I don't see the problem with the current policy that singapore goes by there is no need to go and legalise sex work when already


they don't face any legal problems in terms of the law when they were if they were to report any problems that happens during their course of work, okay that is on point one where you brought up the like sex workers may not be able to seek


justice for the crimes committed against them during their period of work and secondly on the point of education most sex workers in singapore are often foreigners themselves from other countries like for example china women women from vietnam they themselves are foreigners


so if we were to provide them with an education if we were to teach them to be literate I think that provides them a good alternative to seek other basic menial jobs like being a secretary or like, jobs that require them very like technical task that involves like reading and writing i'm sure they'll be able to do that so in that sense the option of sex work


isn't something that is a do or die option for them because we need to recognise that a lot of women only turn to sex work when they have no other options left, when they have no other alternatives to turn to because their government doesn't offer them an opportunity to learn an opportunity to educate themselves in that sense and in in this case in the singapore government if we were to educate them


in order to push out legalising sex work, then at the same time as i've mentioned we would be educating them already and this still we're still going around the same point where we talked about whether education will help sex work or not, however even though proposition insist that some people still have to turn to sex work in the end we need to understand that the root cause for women for turning to sex work is that because often very very often they do not have an education and this deprivation of an education is what pushes them


to commit what people think often is a very degrading task, and in that sense if we were to correct this root cause which is to provide these women with an education there should be no need for legalising sex work anymore, so proposition would you like to propose another very extremely powerful reason as to why sex work should be legalised


do you have anything to add proposition


alright on the point of family background notice note that I said that the sex workers that come to singapore are very often not singaporean, are very often women from other countries themselves singaporean women a large majority of them don't turn to sex work as a means of providing for their families or for themselves so when you talk about family income these women who have


come to singapore by themselves wouldn't wouldn't need wouldn't have any external circumstances as you would have mentioned and on top of that, because these because these women came to singapore to earn a higher income and


because singapore offers them a higher a higher income higher payslip it as compared to what they would earn in their home countries if they were able to find an alternative job one that requires them to be literate i'm pretty sure that would pay them a higher income as compared to doing what people often


see as demeaning work such as sex work, I hand the time over to opposition proposition


proposition perhaps you didn't hear me just now but what I have mentioned the policy that singapore adopts is the partial criminalisation and thus sex workers would not face any problems reporting any crimes committed against them during their term of work and hence they shouldn't have any safety issues


I think why opposition would take this debate would be primarily because of proposition has not


given us a strong enough reason as to why we should legalise sex work, alright I think why opposition would take this debate is because proposition has not given us a valid and solid enough reason as to why we should move away from the status quo which is partial criminalization in singapore because essentially


proposition has been telling us that sex workers will face problems they won't be able to report to crimes against us but the partial criminalization of sex work in singapore easily allows sex workers to stand up go to the police station and report any crimes that were committed against them


furthermore on the point of equality we opposition takes the point too because, if by legalising sex work were be will will be able to take away years of prejudice and discrimination buildup since young I think that this this is to this this trivializes the discrimination sex workers face too much and


a government policy it wouldn't simply erase or wash away all these insults or like demeaning remarks thrown to sex workers so in that sense


so I just press the red button okay


part two debate topic two


okay, so what proposition has been talking about what proposition has been centering her debate about is from students' perspective, and I think this is too trivial a perspective to be, condensing the debate to because essentially when you make charity work compulsory you're making it compulsory for the entire society and while we need to recognise that students often have more pockets of time compared to working adults when they need when they are required to serve