okay so you you're you're on or irrelevant is because of the uh the updated timing right, but how about the accuracy of the the the information


with TV and newspaper right they have they I believe they will go through different layer of


approvals from different level of managements, before they publish the informations out, to the public so let's say if they have the piece of information they will not just uh they will not just go ahead and report it to the TV they will be go through different approval and management level to make sure that the news and the information delivered to the audiences


are as accurate as possible but whereas from internet right anybody can provide information on the internet even myself I can create a blog or even a website to fill in informations that if not is not even proven by any uh subject matters, uh any other professional


opinions I can just put in all my own opinions and then people could have misused my opinions as part of the news as updated


okay but now you are mostly


talking about the younger audience if you want to say if we are talking about the general audiences when we want to cover all the audiences because we're not sure how much percentage of the audiences are belong to the young one and how much percentage are belongs to the uh the elder uh the older generations


and also assuming with the internet is when this is with assumptions of everybody have the access to the internet with a smartphones or even a laptop but we also we didn't even include those people who do not have, a internet access at home or even a smartphone to access this internet to assess internet you will need these minimum requirements and


these devices are not cheap to come with so if with TV it's a common furnitures at home and even newspaper you can get it in a very cheap prices so for these right, if you want to cover the different age uh of the audiences or different uh background of these audiences right those people who are not uh


do not have the expenses to spend on those devices they are still able to get through the information through newspaper and TV


okay okay speaking of uh the TV first right I will say that TV is not just serving as a one of the furnitures it at home but watching a TV the uh taking news from the TV right it also helps to bond uh the relationship with other people because if we do it on internet and online on your own smartphone this is more like individual actions


and then this will actually pull away the relationship between human to human so with a TV in the living room everybody will sit down there and share and see the news together and they can open up to a open discussions, whereas let's say if you compare you look looking at a news on a T on uh internet or even on online


you are only subjected to your own comments and then when you when you keep give provide your uh comments on the internet right uh anybody could be the the the right one everybody, can have their own points but then then this will also create a lot of


arguments and also create a very bad uh so-called, attitude I will say because people will say okay I'm right so then they will just I write I write this comment okay I go offline because I'm right I don't want to listen to your comments then they will shut it off whereas if you open have a you have a discussion open discussion


in a living room setting and watching a TV at least discussions will be ongoing in a healthy way with a lot of, uh uh a lot of uh discussion lah on and off lah from from everybody that participated


okay people like to do things on I mean they like to do comments online but okay now we are assumptions of those people who are tech-savvy who are able to access the news online so


they they will voice out their comments online lah but those that they are not able to voice out their comments online then where will their voice goes to it will be in a, close door right


this one I would say relevance for certain age uh certains group of audiences like the elder families, taking for instance let's say in the year of twenty-twenty


uh we still have a very big group of senior citizens who do not receive uh education like what our generation does and they all they can rely on news updates is through the TV and newspaper let's say for instance the recent news on COVID nineteen


uh they will not be able to tell where it where where is where uh being affected with the uh COVID nineteen patients or how many are there happening in the whole world but they only can receive all this update through the TV that have reported and also the newspaper


otherwise they will not be able to know what's happening uh inside singapore and also outside of singapore


yes it can be spread very fast but yes I also agree that you say uh informations news can spread by word of mouth


but if taking instance of this pandemic issues COVID nineteen we are not able to social we are we are need we need to do social distancing eh we are not able to go out and gather with other people and with such thing it does it means that all those all those elderly who do not have access to internet they will not be able to


uh receive all this information because they will be like uh locked down within their own own house and own home because they are not able to go out interact with other people so they have no informations from the other people they met outside right, so that's why they still need they still need they still rely on TV and newspaper to provide them update whether is it safe to go outside only when these updated news are on a TV and newspaper then they will be able to go out and and up and keep them


updated about the situation


okay for the the updated timing whether through the uh that one I agree with you that with internet of course information will come down immediately and conveniently for everybody but


if we take away the updated timing we still need TVs and newspaper to pass down the informations regarding to be the most update to to the like I will need to be updated the within the first five minute, of any situations or I mean


uh what I'm trying to say is that in regardings of being convenience to to receive the news through the internet TV and newspapers still play an important part to cover other part of audiences


I would say yes ya and ,


debate topic two people have the rights to remain anonymous when portrayed in media, sorry can you speak up I cannot hear you


ya can


okay, so I think that people have the rights to remain anonymous right should not be this way is because being anonymous it means that it give people, a chance to play punk so let's say for example yes I agree that you said for example on the top I mean on the example on when the employee wanted to give a feedback to this employer they're afraid that their comments will be backlashed by the employer but again let's say if this employee remains anonymous


and this employee can actually use different kind of languages, to give feedback to this employer and make them , feel that this feedback may not be as relevant to the organisations as it's possible, because with anonymous people have this uh tendency to say that uh oh because I am anonymous nobody know who am I so I able to give any kind of comments without any uh I don't need to hold any responsibility to my speech


so being anonymous err I don't think that is the right to say but it will be more like a, person who give the feedback have the responsibility to tell this person I am from where and where and then this is my generic feedback to you so that you will create a


credential to that feedback that the person, provided than portrayed in media as well especially in media because when in media everybody are we we don't know who and where they come froms they could be from a very far away country from us or even a next door person that providing this piece of informations but


it will be good that we have our names to be there so that we know , uh the the the the accuracy of, the the comments that the person give


okay social responsibility uh this one is beyond our control so but then again


yes like you say certain group of people those minority they want to have their their voice being heard so that's why they do it anonymous because they don't want to be judged, but again if you don't want to be judged then why are you feeding back why are you providing your feedback you want to provide a feedback because you want something to be done and you want something to be done and this comes to both way you have you will face to being judged


plus also a open discussions or what is your intentions to provide that feedback and people need to take responsibility for their words and these responsibility in


in terms of media it will be not anonymous anymore because with anonymous it doesn't comes with responsibility people won't know where are you from and, when the person provide feedback they will actually doesn't take their word as like did they won't


they won't take it seriously in a way let's say, we take it for example the recently there's this person that this guy he actually posted a few sensitive comments on twitter but he is using a different profile pictures different names and to hide his identity his his race his geder et cetera


and his comments was so sensitive that it actually, stirred up the netizens' emotions and everything, so you see even though he wants to get everybody to heard about his comments about certain topic


but he choose to use a fake data a fake uh profile picture fake profiles online and it will let it will mislead everybody to fuse to feel that oh certain age group of certain race people have this kind of comments and this will


so-called if I would say stir uh people emotions around, so being , so I will say that being anonymous right uh it will actually led given give people more chance to play punk and to stir


problem you know I will not say the word lah I mean it it's not problem to say what but it will stir some problem you know like, uh causing more issues to other parts of other other other parties instead of themselves instead of like getting their own intention to be heard


okay I don't really I don't agree to the point that you use the employers and the psychology sessions to compare in this situation uh the reason is because


for the employers' part yes employee are able to stay and uh anonymous to give their feedback but that is also because these organisations they have a control on the channel where these employee able to provide the feedbacks usually the link that provide to the employees for the feedbacks right


is controlled within their organisation so uh I would say that those people who do not belongs to the organisations will not have this access to the links so this is one of the measures by the organisations to make sure the employees still able to stay anonymous to give feedback


but they will know that this persons is actually not from the outside world where they don't know who is this person from but more but this person will be belongs to their organisation so there's a certain measure to make sure that, even you stay anonymous they still know that these audiences belong to a group they want to target to


whereas for the psychology one also the make things uh it's the same thing as well you said that if this person do not open up to this his or her issues to the therapists these therapists will not be able to help him or her with the informations but again this is because these sessions belongs to a private personal sessions and


they have I believe there will have some paper or or terms and conditions to sign upon to confidentiality of the topics talked about so that's why they are able to provide a lot of informations and not stay anonymous but now we are talking about a media the media is


someone that everybody can access from anywhere where anywhere and and anyone even a thirteen years old or even a primary school students up to if any foreign workers or anybody any profiles they are able to assess this and we do not have a certain control


uh or measurements to know where this group of people come froms so if you stay anonymous uh it will create a lot of different points of views and different kinds of uh feelings among the people behind the keyboard


so uh you see, let's say uh on the internet in the medias anybody can voice their comments they can use a fake profile picture fake names and put it there and then if


and then they can actually share their comments irresponsibility so there is no a measurements to to to contain these people so if, if to uh if the people have the rights to remain anonymous right we will not know whether these comments are true or not


or whether is it out to sabotage someone else you will doubt the intentions of having these feedbacks or comments, so I would say that it is, people have the freedom of speech yes only only when they're on a media or a or a channel where they know that this group of people come from which area


but let's say if talking about media anybody can come from anywhere and it's very hard to control where these people come from and their their main intentions so by remaining anonymous right uh it's does more harm to the people who receive these informations more than the good I would say


okay so , but okay, you know I have uh, if I want to give an example of when, people they don't they don't share their their names their real names online they will give different kind of very rude comments and there are a lot of facebook group pages they create a fake facebook name and put comments harsh comments with very


very bad uh descriptions and then they they do it without any evidence, and then it this to actually divides the netizens into they will actually they will raise different voices, from the netizens without any any evidence to support their their ideas so because with this right they are dare to voice out more and even more irresponsible comments and it include their biasness so if if


with their right then I don't think that these will have I mean they they won't any responsibility to what they have they are going to say on online


that's true lah but I mean there's no other measurements you want to stay with anonymous or not there's no police online can catch you whether you can be anonymous or not


, debate topic three, social media should not have the rights to store and use our personal informations


okay so you feel that uh social media should not have the rights to store and use our personal information was because you as a consumer you will not be able to know where are your personal information being stored and shared with uh is that right


so I will I will believe that all the social media when before they record your personal informations they do have these, uh small paragraph of uh consentment to say that they are going to have


uh what kind of personal information from you and where and how they will be doing it with these together with the government PDPA law , these informations that being stored by the social different type of social media they'll be practising these laws together and with this right it should assure the consumers that their personal informations were not being abused so even and these personal informations


will be kept, by these social media and it should not be , it should not be a worry for a consumer to think that their personal informations will be misused by any other governments because of this consentment paragraph from the social media


it's unknown questions where these social media will use your personal information at but again uh, the consumers also have the options whether to give this personal informations to these social media


whether for them to handle your personal informations if you're willing to do so you, are not the consumer will not have the choice whether they have the rights to store and use personal information because you are the wiling party who let them store and use as personal informations moreover we also need to question see whether the real reason why these social media stores and use our personal informations


by storing and using these personal informations this social media platform certain social metre media's platform right will actually make use of these datas and then they throw out some statistics to to turn back this piece of informations back to the public


so we should actually questions that uh they have the rights to store and use our personal informations, because they have this clause to seek for our consentment so if we consent to them they should they will have the rights to store and use our personal informations if you don't want them to store your personal information you should not give them your consent and also


with this consent informations this social media they also can make use of these piece of informations to general generate back , other kind of statistics analysis to the the audience the other people as well


okay firstly I want to go through uh you you just now mentions that how many people will read the, ten pages of terms and conditions because is ten pages firstly I would say that uh this company this social media is not wrong to have ten pages of terms and conditions


their rule they actually laid out all the rules and regulations for the consumers to let them know what will they do and what and what are their plans to do with the personal information before you join on board with them and give you give them their give them your personal informations, so this is actually seeking your consentment if you do not want to read if the person do not want to read it is not the social media's issue but it's more like the human factors where they do not want to read all this


ten pages of terms and conditions I cannot we cannot says that ten pages of terms and conditions is a lot and is lengthy and uh we do not want to go through all this just to, uh just to reach just to give our consent but because if you think that you personal information is so important is it the more that the persons have to read the terms and conditions


you are afraid that this this personal informations are shared by the social media it will go to the black market and those people who have negative they have bad intentions to make use of this social media will will let your grandchildren or your even your old whole families


uh be in like I would say stalked by other companies right then isn't that the more that you should read the ten pages of terms and conditions to protect yourself, is is really a human factor that they do not want to read but you can't say that is the social media platform say who will want to read yes it's long and lengthy I also do not want to read but if it's if your concern is I'm so protected about my personal information then the more I should have the responsibility to know


what the what are the persons using my informations at


okay I summarise on what you have just said about the on the hackers and use against you so firstly for the hackers hackers should not be part of the consideration is because this is uh the questions of their


this if the hackers able to hack into the system, and steal away all the uh datas right it will be their own companies' managements and system, so it shall be held under their responsibility to the public and these will let the law to be to to deal with because this is also beyond their control social media also have their own organisations and they have their own IT system managements


if their management system are not able to hold against these hackers, it's really beyond our control whether they will misuse our data or not so even though okay let's say for example, the few years ago one of the government sector they have a very huge data loss by some hackers okay I would not name the institutions


but that for example right it doesn't means that we people stop giving these institutions their informations for some reasons we people who use these institutions still have to provide their informations, but is the institution responsibility to make sure that their systems are up to date to protect this data so if they're not then there will be punished by the laws of security so this is beyond our control whether these social media should have the rights to store and use their personal information


secondly you said that it will use against you again this one will back to the ten pages of terms and conditions that you have mentioned earlier in your points, uh if the points they says that they will use it to to uh generate the the content you would like to see on the media


this won't be considered as use against you but it will be considered as, uh give you the the content that you are interested to see on your maybe facebook feeds or et cetera so uh I will not say that the I I don't quite understand your your main your main your intetion by saying the use against you so it could be more on like customise


the content that suitable in for this person's age and profile et cetera


okay so to summarise your point you say that uh it's not fair for the consumers to be like a must to exchange your informations to this social media platforms in order to get to access to their, product right isn't this the same thing as in the market you give one dollars to pay for one dollar product


of course if like I let's say I buy uh bread for one dollar I have to give the person one dollar so I can have the bread I cannot say that I don't want to give you one dollar but you still must give me the bread, if I don't give him one dollar then I cannot get the bread that doesn't make sense right so if you put this concept into this media social media it's the same thing is a trade-off I give this trade I give this social media my personal inforamtion because they the costing of this piece of information is my personal informations so once I give you my personal information


then they let me allowed to their piece of informations isn't this a fair trade-off by the social media, if you say that I have the rights to access your information does it means that I have the rights to get the bread without paying them one dollar, that doesn't make sense, right so I will say this is more like a trading concept


in the social media but more like a virtual trading in terms of, a physical trading physical trading money dollars and products is what you called the but but that that's what you use for trading but in terms of social media right the money will be our personal informations and to access their media it will be the product that I want to buy so I use my personal information to buy your


buy your to buy your, the buy your piece of uh access lah


yes I understand what you trying to say but that will mean let's say if you're talking about the giving money and staying in the house and store all your all your actions in the house that will mean I give you one dollar for the bread I see you how you eat the bread


correct isn't isn't the same is is at extensions of the trading off already yes I give your four hundred dollars to come to my and stay but anything that you do in my house I need to CCTV you whatever your action is then it will it will mean that you buy my bread for one dollar I will look at you how you eat my bread


do you bite my do you how many bites you will take for the bread how do you swallow it this is the this is more on like a extensions of the of the trade trading already so whether in this extension of trading is it part of the, transactions then it will be a different case already ya


part one debate topic one


K hi Ah-Bu I think I'm gonna kick the ball rolling, the proposition so today I think the first debate topic is that, the premises schools should be should consider subjective and non-academic factors for admission and I'm actually arguing for it


so to set some context right actually secondary schools now they have, they do admit students based on PSLE scores and also minority via DSA lah which is actually the non-academic factor side, uh it's mostly via CCA so depending on uh sports or other clubs and societies as well


, but for post-secondary education, the majority of the students or rather big portion uh they admit via aggregate scores of the L one R five or L one R four depending on whether you are going to JC or poly, so


I I'm proposing that schools should actually widen this percentage of students that they admit through DSA and the DSA should not just be limited to CCA but also consider, perhaps leadership character or even


side projects that the students are interested and passionate in all these are just to encompass the full potential of the students because academic, a performance may not be, uh enough to


judge uh the potential of a student, pan, yeah I think I'll just start off with that


right right just very glad that you bring in a lot of ideas that I want to discuss as well such as meritocracy and you know RI being an elite school as well, , and yes uh I do agree that SST or there are a few number of schools uh although very little that part


that runs mainly via DSA basis and I do recognise that there are few points that or actually a lot of points that I could address perhaps I'll start with the meritocracy one, so actually the meritocracy that you mentioned during your argument I feel like it's a rather narrow definition of meritocracy


in fact, how do I phrase it, , okay maybe I'll scrape that up I think at first I'd like to agree with you that these are subjective factors are very very hard to quantify and they might even reduce like the objectivity


of like admission and even compromise on the hard work and you work hard and then you, get rewarded principal lah that singapore has been, uh based on for the couple of uh the past couple of decades, however right I think that if we do consider


uh the other factors that I've mentioned such as character you know notable side projects we would actually reinforce that merit goes beyond academic ability alone and that actually I think brings me to my next point, that, your your definition of meritocracy is a little bit narrow considering that


you see that meritocracy requires like a standardised form of task so that we can judge everyone uh based on the same, uh on the same level, uh I think you mention uh you like we need a level playing field but


uh reality is the playing field is not level isn't it yeah there are uh certain groups of students who are more privileged and others group of students much less privileged so maybe I'll just give like a very casual example that I can think of my head a certain student have to work part-time even though they're studying because


they they need to support the household or even financial system support from the school is just not enough to sustain their education fees or just or pocket money and their uh family households expenses so in those cases


they will not have enough time and resources to devote to their studies that that will be one and then next there have been plenty of like evidence and research, so, there is a very prevalent tuition culture in schools uh as you may know due to due to the strong emphasis on academic grades admissions so


in this case a parentocracy actually like sorry meritocracy in singapore actually evolved into a new form of like parentocracy which I'm sure you are aware of where, like the parents' wealth and wishes actually directs and uh has a strong influence on the child's education lah so


the education no I don't I don't agree with the meritocracy part of your argument, yes that will be all for now


right right, yeah I totally agree on the point that you know if we made these subjective factors, uh and non-academic factors, uh, as like a criteria for admission that it will open up another rat race and in fact I think as you have mentioned that it it already open up another rat race right and I think I do agree that you know actually one of these uh


like one of the reasons for these changes and this argument is actually to reduce stress for students because our dedication education ministry do at uh acknowledge that, no uh students are very stressed out now uh and are all,


solely or rather mainly focus on academics which is I believe not uh what the education ministry is steering the direction towards as well, yeah and so, sorry I lost my point,


ya I do agree with you on that however yeah I think I want to point out that the rat race, of like the the more most privileged has already begun even, way before there were talks about like schools to consider subjective and non-academic factors and I think


it is, maybe due to the Kiasu culture it may just be that the the wealthy wants to remain a strong grabs on their wealth and therefore they send their children to all sorts of enrichment classes whether or not whether or not schools eventually do


(ppc) agree on the, uh considering subjective and non-academic factors for admission so how the how argue this is actually, the the the situation that you you mentioned has already existed before there was this discussion happening and if we do allow schools too


take in students based on these subjective factors for admission actually we are what we are doing is not worsening the rat race but actually we are opening up uh, we are opening up a new, a new channel for students who pursue these interest uh based on genuine passion


and interest in it uh and to recognise that actually this, uh how how would I say uh, that their pursuits actually worthy and also within our definition of meritocracy and uh you know a good student and whatsoever


yeah it's to give a chance to recognise that lah,


yeah uh uh that is a very interesting point about like mental health and Erikson's psychosocial theory which I'm well acquainted with as well , how would I how would I say this since we don't have much time I think what you are saying uh all these is true but


they would have to consider whether you know I think I think the we we need to like look back at the premise right whether schools should consider a subjective and non-academic factors for admission so we don't we shouldn't deviate much from it and when you when you say that uh if


if we do allow schools to allow for this then then might actually be you know mental health of students worsening because you know parents are being very Kiasu and sending their children for more enrichment classes I don't think that that is a very valid reason for schools not adopting this because


there are other ways to prevent or rather , , engage the parents to stop, sending uh children to like enrichment classes and, we we can we cannot and we should not look at the the privilege alone


and deny, deny the chances and opportunities and doors that would open for so much more less privileged people lah I think the idea of privilege here is , uh mentioned a lot and


yeah I think to conclude the discussion, yeah it's just a matter of further, we are doing the right thing for the, for the less privileged I think that will be my main last point


oh thank you very much for being such a interesting opponent, my stop and submit is not twenty minutes eh it's nineteen point five three


part two debate topic two


are you are you done, okay okay yeah thank you Ah-Bu for like the interesting points I think most prominently you mentioned a lot about cultural, I am the cultural baggage that uh learn dialects would actually bring, and I I do agree with the culture part and I do


uh I'm although I'm arguing against uh the premise I do agree that uh learning dialects has a plethora of benefits uh most of which are rather, yeah most of which including strengthen strengthening of the familiar bonds especially with their uh grandparents so that that I do agree however uh I think I would like de to point out the difference between like a dialect and the language you mentioned another side uh but from my uh understanding and my definition


the languages actually written and standardised lah and they do have a literature whereas dialects like Hokkien uh Teochew cantonese they actually are oral and they don't have like qualified rules and therefore have no literature, so on the same on this note uh I think that it is very hard for schools to organise classes you know on how to teach dialects be it manpower resources or


even coming out with a formal curriculum to teach students and how would they assess the students, I think that a lot of questions that goes into this whether uh this mother tongue language would replace mandarin altogether, or would or actually yeah from what the premise says it would actually uh


replace mandarin which is actually not ideal because then all the considerations would come in like we would have to find a way of assessment uh for the students and given that it is a oral , like dialect is purely oral then how do we like you know give the students' homework how do we access is it all through OEL there's a lot of considerations going on and I think that might not be within the capacity of our education ministry especially when teachers are actually overwork now so according to like


a research done by the, through the teaching and learning international survey last year the average teachers around the world work thirty-nine hours a week but the teachers in singapore actually work forty-six hours per week so where do we find the hours and resources to cater to this uh additional


, or or should I say new subject that the schools are gonna teach uh that'll be one uh and two you mentioned that, , yeah the elderly would have no representation on TV if they they only like know chinese dialects right and you mentioned that it's taught like


the past fifty years I I do agree uh and see the effects of of that lah, but then how do we like how would offering chinese dialects, be , uh beneficial or how do we reclaim the


the loss from the past fifty years I think that's another question to consider whether it's doing more good than harm, , and you also mentioned interestingly that the new generation who, don't really have ties or, though


yeah relations with their uh mother, tongue actually you are going to the CC to, learn it and actually that's where I think we both agree on because I I think that, uh how wait ah I think that


taking up dialects right should be at the students and, the students discretion like out of the normal school curriculum and they do need to consider their interests and school capacity, it instead of just you know being, being offered in school


uh and, where you know the their learning can be dampened if they are being forced into another rigid curriculum then that would that would uh you know severely affect the, cultural benefits, or any uh fun


yeah I feel, like a lot of nuance would be lost if, uh dialects were being offered in school lah so what I actually do propose is you know having uh programs, like government initiatives to actually engage, uh the youth uh children


uh to communicate and learn from their grandparents uh and I believe that is the most like organic way uh to learn a dialect and that will be the most useful lah instead of like a formalised education actually even in CC uh community center, this as well that would be


uh that will be, more useful than learning in school, , that's those are my thoughts for now,


yes yes,


yeah yeah I think I want to acknowledge err and appreciate that I think, if dialect were to be an offered as a third language instead of a mother tongue I'm not very sure where the differences that then I think we are both agreeable that uh then it's up to the student lah whether they would want to take up the chinese dialects and I do agree that if it is


uh, offered as a third language than it it would it would have its users lah and benefits as well, , have I think what where we differ, where our points differ is that you see you see this uh promoting dialect as more of the education ministry's role whereas I see it as part of like the MCCY's role


which is like the ministry of culture and youth, yeah , yeah which they are you know actively promoting you know, a a lot of things that were not prioritised in the past fifty years where we were very focused on our economy and now they're trying to revive you know you talk about cultural revivalism yeah and they're doing that although at a very slow pace but we do see like you know them


uh engaging three G families uh them trying to promote a dialect speaking at home, , yeah I think that's where we fundamentally , differ but I don't feel that you know if we do, institute like dialects in schools where children are still at the developmental phase where there are more


uh where they are learning a, capacity for languages are at its peak then if I I see the benefits as well lah, , you also mentioned a lot about bettering the current family situations where the grandparents are actually taking care of the younger children but are not able to communicate


, I actually I don't really see it as like the state's responsibility, to educate and like impart, uh another dialect to to the to the child instead I see it on like as the parents onus to you know teach them


bridge the gap between like the children and the grandparents and not just mean yeah not everything, uh the state should not intervene in uh everything lah, , yeah I think you you you want to conclude


, , once again you concluded thank you


part three debate topic three


okay so this is debate topic three and the premise is learning is best outside the classroom and I'm actually arguing for it lah, , okay so actually uh to start off with right I think I'll like to clarify and maybe state


what the purpose of school is first, so the purpose of school from for what I believe is to actually prepare students for life beyond school right beyond the formal education systems and today's society actually has a higher demand for self awareness and more specialised skills as compared to previously in the past lah


and ultimately I think what we want is to nurture all students into like contributing members of society into good people and then to leaders and this will not be possible with it if we are just confined to the four walls of classroom, where students are actually being forced into route learning which is what is going on in in our education system now in singapore


uh when we prioritise you know academic ability, A send yeah what not at what, so education is beyond good memorisation skills and problem solving like on a paper I feel that we do need real life experience if we want to achieve the purpose of education and that is actually also why there has been an increase on emphasis you know in community work


CCA and other side projects within our educations, you are in singapore today so yeah I'll just start off from there


, , well I didn't think about that but online learning, you mean like people take up courses of them by themselves


I , I think for now yes I think of physical, uh classroom might be too narrow of a definition


, right right thank you uh for sharing , yeah and thank you for you know broadening and you know the definition of a classroom cause I did not uh pick online learning and E-learning into consideration which I do believe is considered as a classroom as well lah


but you mention particularly that you know MOE recently have that they they do prioritise more, applied learning subjects that which are offered by polytechnics you know like DNT, E, we're believe there are POA as well like principles of accounting uh there are there are such subjects that exist


but I do believe that there are many offer actually to the normal academic and normal technical streams whereas for the express streams right there are only these subjects only compulsory within uh for uh secondary one and secondary two whereas secondary three and secondary four the


academic workload is shifted to the you know the sciences and the humanities, a lot of, uh textbook based subjects so, I just wanted to point that out lah, and, think my second argument would


my second argument is that now learning outside the classroom you know it differs from that, conventional teaching methods because students are usually encouraged to engage a broader range of soft skills such as teamwork leadership and even compromise in their learning environment and this may not be offered uh if they were just given you know academic worksheets or even in


for academic projects in which are very minimal uh in the current secondary education system lah, and also conventional teaching uh you know teaching within the classroom be it E-learning or the


brick and mortar version it focuses a lot on like repetition and memorisation as you know you know science subjects humanities and while they do include a certain level of you know critical thinking like how do we answer this correctly but all these are could be memorised actually like


how do we answer this question what what points to be right so that the students actually get the full marks and a lot of the learning within the classroom the purpose is actually to, score, for the exam instead of you know


taking in all these soft skills, at least that's how I feel lah and also conventional teaching doesn't encourage like students to develop critical thinking and you know decision making skills which learning outside the classroom can, yup


yeah I think that's all for my side now, , ,


by schools you mean secondary, ,


, I mean life experiences beyond formal school, yeah, , whether is it is it school based CIP


I would actually consider school based CIP, ,


, yeah,


right right I think to start off right I totally agree on the point that you know OCIP and CIP's conducted by schools uh they should consider and evaluate their impact lah whether they are achieving their purpose on what and I do agree that a lot of these projects actually are rather counterproductive


like they may actually perpetuate like the poverty cycle in poorer countries or what not but I think we are, deviating from the topic a little bit you are narrowing a learning, outside the classroom to just CIP which I don't think it's uh appropriate lah so when I look at learning outside the classroom like yes CIP is one of them but it is not just CIP so I'm looking at also you know part-time jobs


uh taken up by students or internship, or mentorships, yeah basically anything that is not you know taught in a classroom be it online or offline, yeah so the the CIP point that you mentioned I do agree but it might not be very relevant to our discussion


, and you you also mentioned something very interesting that you know uh more students and more schools are, taking up applied subjects and they're they're also offered to express students lah, uh I did not do, I did not read up much about it but


if according to my like existing knowledge I believe it's only a, offered to a small number of schools and it's not like a, nationwide or like a, mandate on like all schools


and therefore the with the impact and, benefits is also also very limited to these few selected schools and often, more often than not these are schools that, have more resources than others lah and


yeah but okay what else did you mentioned you also mentioned that, uh learning humanities requires like critical thinking, which I do do agree on,


I found I'm still of the opinion that if you do you know memorise a certain points, at a I'm talking about at a secondary school level you know JC and beyond I'm not, we are not uh dwelling on that but at a secondary school level there are certain answers and format that you can still memorise and if you do a a write them


to any questions you can still score a certain number of marks, and even a good a good yeah I'm just basing this off of, my experience , but yeah that's all I have for now yeah you you break you brought about


interesting points, , , yeah there's a lot of issues of the definition


, , yes


okay, ,


a boost sorry sorry to interrupt, due to define your definition before we end, like what what what's your definition of like outside the classroom yeah I think that's requested also


okay, I see okay


yeah that's where we differ


sorry I realised my father's phone is here and they just gave some notification so I'm gonna put it outside so sorry


sorry about that


okay uh so your definition is that you know you're you're talking about subjective on and non-academic factors for admissions uh being co-curricular and extra-curricular activities which is a definition that I agree on


when we talk about direct school admission or DSA uh you mentioned that they don't currently look at like leadership scores but from my knowledge they actually do , so uh certain schools such as school of science and technology or schools that are mostly DSA for for that school that I mentioned is hundred percent DSA


they will definitely look at how this uh like students have uh done uh their leadership in schools uh for instance uh but yeah so for me as the opposition I would uh actually say that you know


schools should not consider uh subjective and non-academic factors for admission or if they do uh like they should keep the status quo rather than expanding its so my main argument that I would like to put forth is that meritocracy is uh at the basis of our society


so the idea that we study in social studies such as reward for work and work for reward so uh an anecdote of uh meritocracy being important to singapore is uh last year on a raffles institutions hundred and ninety-six founders' day


uh Ong-Ye-Kung our education minister emphasised that meritocracy is at the basis of our society so what this means is that we need a level playing field for everyone and, uh how to have a level playing field is when we have uh the same lenses so


you know if we consider so many uh subjective criteria a spot in a so called good school for someone who got in based on a different subjective criteria is depriving someone who is just as or if not more capable academically, of of the same opportunities so uh john you have mentioned uh things about like you know PSLE O levels or all of this they actually are examples of having standardised test right


even in poly ITE and uni there are standardised tests within courses but I I am of the opinion that if we have different criteria like we're going to consider subjective non-academic uh uh parts of uh, a person's uh a person's character uh well it will actually blur the lines of meritocracy and it might threatened that that idea that I mentioned about reward for work and work for reward and


I think the future could look bleak for our nation if people aren't unwilling to put in the necessary work to sustain our nation so this is my first big argument that uh you know academic factors should still be priced most importantly because of meritocracy what are your opinions john


right


(mmhmm)


okay, okay uh well I'm glad that you brought up some very interesting uh points such as on privilege and yes uh the fundamental flaw in meritocracy is that not everyone starts at the same uh at the same point so a person A may have uh you know


some knowledge or speaking english at home but person B may not have any knowledge of speaking english at home before entering the school system so you are absolutely right on that, but on the point of privilege should we consider subjective uh subjective factors are non-academic factors in school admissions because of singapore's Kiasu or never say die kind of uh culture and as you mentioned uh parentocracy


what happens is that you know these these aspects of a person's life such as the arts the sports uh other CCA which are supposed to be enjoyable becomes something very stressful you know where , uh what parents send their children for a


extra extracurricular activities to develop these skills so an example will be john and denise glee studios uh uh uh show choir company which teaches young kids is like a form of tuition and it actually kind of kind of prefect prepares people for a DSA as well you know so


what I'm trying to say is that uh yes okay meritocracy and privilege are actually uh you know what you mentioned is very valid but at the same time, this when we consider non-academic subjects the privilege that is awarded to the most privileged people compounds itself furthermore it engenders itself in society and what happens is that


you know there is a new rat race a new competition where the monopoly the monopoly of , uh not not just ideas the monopoly of a strength, lies in the most privileged itself so an example anecdote of this is that you know it despite the DSA uh process which you know uh ministers will have you believe all schools are good schools but in reality like uh just last year ACS I had a six year win streak


for rugby at A divisions so this is already showing that you know uh it actually furthers this privilege you know where good schools get uh can compete in terms of academics and non-academics but then the schools that don't have this kind of reputation they are short-changed, and so I would want to argue that


okay sure uh there is this aspect of privilege to it but I I think that you know, it actually would not better the situation if you consider non-academic subjects it will actually worsen the situation because the people with more resources would have a leg up yup so yeah


, okay uh well you mentioned you mentioned that the uh the status of privilege would already exist in society despite uh you know non-academic subjects being considered or not but I would also like to point out that it's not just the less privileged people who suffer


uh at the hands of this it's also the privileged people so uh you you see everyone has a certain limit as to how much they can take or tolerate so when we have helicopter parents in singapore sending uh the child for lessons after lessons after school after


the CCA you know you can get a bit stressful and since we are talking about you know since from the PSLE stage which is most students are like twelve years old, I would like to bring up this theory called Erikson's stages of psycho social development so children uh in this status or or in the stage of industry versus inferiority so industry being feeling industrious or capable


and inferiority being uh like feeling inferior or incapable so when you overload a child what happens is, if if it's too much for them to handle they could very well go into the inferior inferiority stage and this actually snowballs in the future and it could uh lead to other issues happening singapore is already stressful we know this because you know in


twenty twenty uh today online uh survey mentioned that one in seven young adults experienced depression anxiety and alcohol related challenges which is a rise from twenty ten where only one eighth people one eighth of people were affected by this so what I'm trying to say is that you know


this issue of mental health it cuts across different social economic status, and, why this is important to us is because, you see like even the most privileged people are suffering so what I'm trying to say is that you know if we could have a system where non-academic uh factors are considered


but it does not lead to these kind of effects happening where there is a big toll of mental on mental health or people feeling unhappy in singapore then yes I will be for it but, that is not the status right now so I'm concerned about I'm I'm uh thinking about what your thoughts about this uh


yeah I agree with you this is our main consideration and our main takeaway from this discussion I feel thank you very much for having this conversation with me


part two debate topic two


okay maybe I'll start so , today I will be the proposition for the idea of chinese dialects should be offered as a mother tongue language so I'll be arguing for this


so before I start with any arguments I would like to give some definitions so for the purpose of this debate chinese dialects in singapore refer to uh dialects that are mostly spoken other than mandarin chinese so uh such as Hokkien Teochew Hakka Hainanese and cantonese okay


so uh currently the only chinese language, taught in official schools are mandarin and this was done since the nineteen seventies to keep up with china's economic rise because china promoted the usage of mandarin over other dialects K so this was also done to forge a common ethnic identity because not all ethnically chinese people in singapore could communicate with one another


so among singaporean chinese of the past, what was considered their lingua franca was actually hokkien with with forty percent of the population speaking it I was actually quite surprised to find this out because I didn't know that, uh a such a sizable amount of the population actually spoke hokkien but yeah ever since the nineteen seventies the singapore government has been clamping on clamping down on dialects


so so that the current situation right now is that uh the use of dialects is quite scarce among younger population so if you hear people speaking in dialects in singapore it's more likely that you will hear much older people speaking it so as a proposition I'll be arguing that chinese dialects should be offered


as a MTL uh tongue language because of its uh firstly its cultural baggage and secondly I would argue that it actually helps to strengthen families especially in situations that singapore is in right now, so maybe I will go on to my first point first so the idea that language languages are uh sorry inextricably linked to culture


so uh the idea is quite uh straightforward a lot of meanings, are passed down from generation to generation through stories that are preserved in language or through proverbs that only make sense in that language so if I were to translate uh uh a malay proverb to english they will make absolutely no sense but in malay it will make a lot of sense


so similarly these ideas would exist in such dialects, and you know proponents of this same idea would argue that, although we are calling them dialects for the sake of this debate they actually aren't dialects they are languages


you know so according to the #new york# times #new york# times in twenty seventeen a show was aired in hokkien on television for the first time since the late nineteen seventies, and this is significant because from for so many years almost fifty years there's no hokkien on TV so can you imagine those elderly uh people you know they have no representation on TV in terms of language and so they might feel lonely especially if they can't speak other languages


or if they could not keep up with learning mandarin or english, okay so uh I am arguing that this is actually signifying a change in society and uh the government stances towards languages now is slowly becoming more open and this also encourages the study of ethnic languages right and sorry uh what I meant to say is that


when we study uh ethnic languages it would bolster individual cultural competence and knowledge and also contribute to an environment where people accept one another despite differences that they may not fully understand, for in this case is through dialects so there might be a concern where uh you know uh you people won't be able to understand each other in the future


but I think that because of singapore's nation building where we have established english as our lingua franca it will not be a gigantic concern in the future because uh that is still our working language, yeah and also I would like to point out that uh now that is like this uh form of cultural revivalism where a lot of uh youth who have no ties to their actual uh mother tongue are trying to learn it in community centers so the same article that I am referencing in uh from the #new york# times


uh actually shows this uh in pictures where uh youth are learning dialects so that they can speak their grandparents, yeah so yeah yeah , , sorry yeah yeah go ahead


(mmhmm)


, (mmhmm)


(mmhmm),


, so how did, okay so what I'm gathering for from you in your arguments is that you believe that the onus of uh studying a a mother tongue or dialect


would actually be on the student and slightly on the government, but and and also you are mentioning that grandparents should take an active role in teaching uh the children uh these dialects, but what I would say is that you know if there's no uh pressing need for the language like because we don't use it as a working language then slowly the the


uh students will also do not see an importance in learning their grandparents' mother tongue for instance so what happens is that when we, if we if we leave it at the status quo what will happen is like fifty years from now you will not see anyone in any of these languages because it would slowly have disappeared


so that that is why I'm arguing that you know we should have a component uh in school where we learn this maybe if it's not formally a mother tongue that replaces mandarin it could be a mother tongue in addition like a third language which


actually if you take third languages in school it is quite beneficial for example your O levels you might be able to uh cut two two more points in to get into your favourite JC or something right so , yeah what I'm proposing is that it it's still a mother tongue right but it can be in addition to mandarin because we can't deny that china is very very important to singapore in terms of economic prospects and most of them speak mandarin chinese


so yes I think that we have some common ground , yeah so but I would like to go onto my uh second argument uh rather than addressing all your points, uh basically I want to elaborate further on the idea that learning dialects in schools would actually strengthen families so now that isn't but there is a government initiative in I would not really call it a government initiative there's this concept known as three G families or three G households


basically it just stands for three generations and , in twenty thirteen about nine percent of all singaporean families, uh live like this with three different generations under the same uh household uh under the same roof


so according to Lee-Kuan-Yew school of public policy's doctor matthew matthews uh where the study originated from uh seventy point six per cent of elderly HDB residents visited their adult married children at least once a week and almost one quarter visited daily okay so


I'm sure you you also agree that grandparents are up uh play a big role in a child rearing in singapore, but you know in the #new york# times article I referenced earlier there was this problem that surfaced where


although the grandparents are taking care of the the grandchildren they have this barrier in communicating because you know you know nowadays what happens is that most of the time like maybe from four years old people are already put into the childcare system and childcare system they're learning english and mandarin


so the opportunities to learn uh these languages or these dialects from the grandparents is lost, and so what I'm trying to say is that you know the system kind of you know reproduces this where the languages slowly you know fade out from existence and so


uh you know you mentioned just now the grandparent should teach uh children but I find that that there are limitations also so in the uh developmental stage where you know the children are able to accept languages the best you know they will be they might not be with the grandparents


yeah so anyway when I'm going back to this uh three G argument what I'm trying to say is that you know if the grandchildren could communicate with the grandparents it could create a better family situation you know communication is undeniably important in maintaining any relationship


and what better way to communicate than using the same language right so, also we pride ourselves as a cosmopolitan society with many different cultures, but I also wanna bring up the point that you know if we don't recognise dialects as valid


enough or to study in school we are actually, contributing to this system where this culture slowly fade out and that's quite sad because you know uh we would like to see this vibrancy like in singapore in the future that's that's my hopes for the future at least do you have any thoughts about uh these points


(mmhmm)


, yeah so, yeah okay well basically I think that you know that that's an important point but then I think that the current status quo is uh created by the state in a sense because of all the policies in the nineteen seventies that have snowballed to today to the cultural situation that we have right now


and uh so I think that honestly, uh parents also if you say that the onus is on them it's hard for them to, uh you know really spend a lot of time because uh you know now working hours are insane for parents you know and they have to spend a lot of time and at at work and you know they have to really fight


to to get anytime for child rearing but yeah I think we are running out of time so thank you for this uh wonderful discussion , ,


part three debate topic three


okay so anyway based on your definition I think that I have a slightly larger definition so basically a a classroom


is any place where learning occurs in a room in a school for the purpose of learning oh my god I'm repeating myself but yeah uh activities that promote learning but it's outside the classroom are what we are interested in for the purpose of this debate like you mentioned CIP activities but I'm also including online learning


okay , yeah uh do you agree with this definition, oh E-learning is also outside the classroom outside a physical classroom okay


alright okay so thank you john I I think you also mentioned about how people are confined to classrooms where there are forced to rote learning, I think that increasingly you know it's uh there are more subjects or more you know subjects are also moving towards a prioritising learning with understanding


and uh there are these new subjects in secondary school level offered by polytechnics, uh called applied subjects so subjects such as uh media studies uh biotechnology uh you know design and technology !hey! you know this kind of subjects are offered by polytechnics and they really emphasise


learning by doing applied learning and also learning and understanding so I I and most of these learning actually happens within the classroom within a lab which you know, they still get the same experience as learning outside like maybe in the field you know and it is even more effective because they have a professional with them you know and they're in a school so you know the teachers are expected to be patient with them at least lah you know so I think that this is a good


situation uh or good a a good situation that we have right now where you know learning in the classroom don't actually uh prevent prevent actual learning or prevent them from being prepared for the future in their work or whichever field they would like go to uh yeah


, (mmhmm)


, okay so uh you mentioned just now that you think that applied subjects are not offered to express students I would like to disagree because I know that there are so uh basically polytechnics collaborate with different schools and in the future will become more of a norm you know where applied subjects are offered


yeah secondary schools uh and express as well so for instance biotechnology has its first syllabus in twenty thirteen uh for O levels so yeah this this is a subject where uh you know


there is lab work you know uh there is a there is theory as well, and you also mentioned that you know within the classroom critical uh critical thinking is not really developed but I think that you know with the guidance of a good teacher especially if you start studying subjects such as humanities critical thinking is necessary to score


so uh like basically uh in social studies or and history or geography you tend to have questions that are like source based for exams and without the necessary critical thinking skills you would only be able to answer at the surface level


so uh it is imperative to to have this kind of knowledge as well so when you were talking out out of the classroom I think you are talking about things like uh you know going to CIP's and things like that am I right, so


(uh huh) , okay life experiences beyond formal school so uh if uh so that does include CIP correct


oh okay so you will not consider school based CIP, , okay so yeah okay since you'd consider school based CIP I would like to point out that you know while CIP activities in idea in its ideal form is supposed to uh you know


uh serve the purpose of developing a person holistically uh giving back to society and what not, I would like to point out that it's usually done to clear point so that students get a leg up for the next phase of education, so for instance doing good for your CCA uh which CIP is considered inside would result in like two points being struck off your O levels score which is uh which is a steal right so this can actually make or break whether a person gets to go to a certain school or not and then


uh I think that you know when CIP and OCIP are done purpose of clearing these points rather than learning it defeats the purpose you know , so uh an instance is that you know there these people who uh okay there was this discourse going on about how uh you know


uh people from uh rich countries will go to poor countries to help the poor uh poor poor children or poor people right poorer okay uh but in reality what it actually does it is that it makes the problem persists because uh the people want


foreigners to keep on coming and helping them so what happens is that it's counterproductive so like for instance a a rural school will keep on accepting uh visitors but in the end nothing actually changes in fact they just get some money so


so you know like we have to make sure that whatever OCIP we go for, it's meaningful you know and it actually it actually uh you know serves the purpose that is a, it or tries to serve the purpose and learning is fostered along the way for singaporeans we tend to have this attitude that we must we must do this we must win


but then you know a lot of CIPs that are meaningful will end up in failure like university projects and that is fine but but the thing is we are not okay with that so we try to force or fake, uh you know that oh this CIP so meaningful but in reality we are doing the bare minimum


right uh I know that in uh some secondary schools that were sent the the the the students to Myanmar to teach them ABC but then the thing is they have they have learnt ABC before you know so it is it is like you know the their needs are not being matched you know


and I think that this OCIP is a bit problematic because you know most students don't have elaborate training that they need to actually help, these poorer countries and in in essence they're not learning the things that they need to learn so all it does is give a false sense of !hey! I did something good for uh for uh someone poorer but I'm I'm feeling dubious as to whether it really helps them


yeah


(mmhmm),


(mmhmm), , okay,


yeah learning okay so I think we also differ in how we define outside the classroom so I I notice you you yeah right so so I I think you you uh think that outside the classroom talks about like uh outside school


but then for me outside the classroom can be other forms of learning that just don't uh you know happen within a classroom a physical classroom so that's why when you know , you know we talk about like other forms of learning such as like maybe online learning


uh which is very useful in this period but then I'd I would say that it's like even that kind of learning is not the best kind of learning you know, uh so I would I would argue that within the classroom there is more support there are more people you can look to as opposed to being uh independent so if you are talking about the secondary school level also you know uh these are the years where students might not have that kind of independence yet which is expected in JC where's everything is very self directed


uh where parents would still you know send their students for tuition for all their subjects you know , where as in JC is slightly less common , yeah so what I'm what I'm trying to say is that you know,


uh, you know uh learning, we uh oh my god I lost my point but there needs to be a certain level of independence for learning to uh occur at the level that we're talking about and secondary school level I don't think that they're developed enough


and I think that as such right in within the classroom within the confines of the classroom uh students have opportunities to learn more but then it is not as restrictive as you might paint it out to be lah basically, you know things like applied us applied subjects are being offered in more and more schools yes I do uh concur that not enough schools are offering them yet but in the future definitely there will be more you know and I think perhaps it's a manpower issue because they are being taught by polytechnic


uh lecturers the whole syllabus is designed by them, yeah, so , anyway on the point of online learning there is this I know it kind of defeats a bit from your definition but I still like to talk a bit about it, uh that you know although it is useful right you know that there are still negative impacts from it uh where national geographic recently pointed out that there's this phenomenon called zoom fatigue where we have a lot of video conferences to the point where we have to emote more or like you know be more present so that we get seen


and this actually creates this uh brain fog or where we become extremely sleepy or unproductive or even feel moody and down, and then you know while the internet is a possible avenue for learning, it is less than ideal than to go physically there or to attend a lecture physically and and you know


uh be there you know to to hear questions and answers or yeah yeah, define my definition, oh okay so so so the thing is at at the start I define a classroom that it is any learning that happens within a room


in a school for the purpose of learning right so so so like a lecture hall would be would be what I would consider a classroom but an online lesson would not be something I consider a classroom a lab will be something I considered classroom whereas the other is not but anyway we are running


out of time thanks for your thanks for your yeah


prompt one out of four, okay


okay err schools should consider subjective and non-academic factors for admission, so uh yes I agree to it given that uh I think every student gives, uh every student needs to have a chance to explore their talent and explore and focus them instead of trying to juggle between uh having high grades and not focusing on what they are actually very good at


okay uh but however I do agree grades are one thing, to actually uh determine but they are actually grades alone are actually a very terrible proxy for like in terms of capability and future potential for kids these days because if you're already were to only focus on for example grades


like uh for example for athletics because they are already excelling in uh in their, in terms of like for example basketball and running track and field et cetera so if you are gonna, use grades alone to determine how far they can go it's actually very unfair for them because they have already


sort of like uh found their talent from the start, so in a way uh how do I put it grades let say you can be like having a hundred out of hundred for exams et cetera but if let's say when you are out in the world, working world your character is very bad your you don't you are only IQ smart


and you are not uh EQ smart it's very hard to survive in this harsh world, ya that's how I feel so I would say that grades are, like maybe a small percentage to how admission should go but they should actually look into the characters and other uh non-academic factors like for example uh personality


and probably like err they can show like in terms of like what their talent is and etcetera, to actually ya, so uh that's my point for uh why grades shouldn't be part of everything it can be a small part but it cannot be everything uh for admission based


yup


okay yes uh I do agree at some part, that you were saying that grades are very important especially for like uh like for example doctors et cetera because they actually need to actually study a lot and then they have to have a very good grade so that they can


uh use their knowledge on, such err such stuff, but however I would say that err this is actually, I would say part of it because you can be very good in err studying err having high very high grades like I've mentioned earlier but


right now it's like if you are in a role play situation you might not even err do a good job so even with a very high grades but you do not use whatever that you have learnt to only it's gonna be very hard err in in the future for career prospect uh progression likewise


so if let's say, err for admission likewise, if you're gonna consider like half half like maybe like a fifty percent admission is based on grades and fifty percent admission is based on like for example no uh subjective and non-academic factors like err


maybe referrals or err for example they have like certificates to show that oh they are very good at this particular uh talent that they have it's actually better for them to judge based on uh rather than just based on grades itself so uh for another example is that err there are


in this current world there are very rich people who are actually able to afford like private tuitions and then give the kids uh everything that they have so that their grades will be very good but there are also kids whereby they are very poor, and they are not able to attend tuition and they might not even have time to actually err focus on their studies


but they are also trying right their best to actually uh fight for the minimum admission for certain schools that they would really want to go but that being said the rich people will always have the priority to actually excel better because of whatever that they have they have basically everything, so it'll be if if you are just going to base on grades itself it won't be fair for the poor people compared to the rich people because for admission likewise uh it's definitely gonna be like a


like a for maybe like a seventy thirty percent chance that the the the the rich poor people might even get in, so in terms of grades likewise if if you just gonna base on grades, the poor people will definitely not benefit from it like maybe half of the poor people might not even benefit from it because of whatever that they don't have


they are lacking of, yup so I would say that the non-academic factors will actually err should be considered for admission, it's actually quite fair for like everybody because everybody have different uh ways of uh different talents that they have or different


err referrals or whatever that they have to actually get into the the to get into the school that they want, ya so that's actually my point err for why grades are really not the essential part for admission


okay


okay err yes I agree of course you want to have the best for everything like for example looking for lawyers and all but the thing is that so I'll just take the lawyers as an example so today if I were to commit a crime, a very serious crime and I engaged someone who is a


who's probably not who is who's very smart in everything that they do so they come and defend me and then I win the case, but I'm a criminal so if if the person if my lawyer are someone who is not, who doesn't have a heart to, uh to


clarify that okay this is a this is a crime this is, uh something good something bad I think it's gonna corrupt the whole entire world if if how you put it in, err but one thing I err how do I put, give me a sec , so I would probably say that a personality personality is actually very important because err so for let's say


companies in future, companies right now they're actually always holding interviews err like we have to submit some exams and like some mini test and all but the main factor is actually comes from the interview whether or not the company wants to hire you so why can't we


have this in terms of admission yes we can have like for example there's hundred seats in that particular school for that particular course maybe fifty percent or maybe thirty percent can be based on err such admission based like those for really really very high grades very good grades okay yes you can proceed to


go for this uh for this particular school but what if we can, there are chances whereby, the admission is based on interview is based on err we yes is based on interview or probably essays or you can submit like your referrals like how university uh admission is


we should actually put it across for all admissions likewise to know that okay I've, student A who I'm speaking to okay yes he is this is this sounds like a very good guy err very good person who has a very good heart et cetera whereby there's the other one who is actually very obnoxious very aloof that kind of thing


so I would say that, err as a whole, grades are first thing first grades are really not very important because I can have, in I mean right now I can have students coming from like maybe harvard or oxford, and then I have another another student from like maybe a basic err SIM degree like a normal university not even in the in the list cover not even in the top schools


they are still working in the same company why because their attitude is good because the interviewer sees something sees the personality good in them that's why they're able to hire them so I feel that, err in overall schools should actually also establish that as well like they should go for like for example mini interview maybe not for like those primary one to primary six or like maybe secondary one to secondary err four


but probably poly onwards they should actually do that or maybe like public sec one onward they should actually start to do that to actually train them from young so that when they are out in the working world they won't be very scared of interviews they won't be err like thinking like okay grades are very important grades are important because at the end of the day does


grades really determine where how far you can go, I have people who are not studying but they are doing very well as well, and err I have students who are doing very well err but they are not, able to find a job in this working world why because they are only IQ smart but technically speaking they are not err they are a little bit


like socially awkward in the in these social world so err that's how I feel in my opinion that uh why the grades, are not the main factors, for admission and that err we should actually take a critical part for err subjective and err


what is that called, subjective and non-academic factors for admission, yup so err that's my opinion


okay so chinese dialect should be offered as a mother tongue language err yes I agree because chinese dialect have often been neglected over the years and youngsters these days


do not know how to speak or understand chinese dialects


okay uh maybe we can err, go back to the main topic because it was, err the it meant that chinese dialect should be offered so it was actually an option whether or not you want to take it so I would say that


having this as an offered choice of having chinese dialect as being offered as a mother tongue would be a good choice because it gives them the option whereby they can choose to take maybe chinese they can choose to take cantonese they can maybe choose to take hokkien et cetera et cetera


so it actually benefits them in a way because when you are growing up in a family your basic would be probably english and chinese you can't run away from that but, having chinese dialect, err is being offered as a mother tongue enables them to learn another language so they will instead of being bilingual you can be a trilingual so in a way because when you're at home when you speak to your parents yes of course you will probably speak in chinese err in english you probably don't even need to err learn much chinese to converse but


now being said you have chinese dialect that is being offered as a mother tongue you can communicate better with for example your elderlies, or probably err anyone who doesn't know how to speak chinese and english because I think there is a


for right now we have a, declining rate of not having able to converse well with our grandparents because our grandparents do not really know how to speak in english and err chinese, so there's actually also a declining interest and competency in chinese dialects among young chinese singaporeans so the singapore err the singaporean chinese identity err isolated themselves from the pioneer generation


so, right now like for example for me likewise my grandparents are speaking in dialects to my parents which I don't really understand at all so wherever they want to talk to me I don't really know how to talk back I'll be like like


like baby talks so it's very hard for us to communicate at all so there will be a there will be a gap in between so it's very hard for us to bond in like maybe, like going down the years, so that's why I think uh chinese dialect should actually be offered as a mother tongue like


like a alternative instead of having just chinese, yup


okay yes I agree that err right now chinese is actually very important because err for business related likewise in the future we are actually, err, associated more with like the china chinese china country as well as


err, probably other chinese err ya china lah so but then that being said, chinese a chinese being a one very important factor but I would say that there are also certain dialects that, for example only the china chinese can speak so some of the china chinese might not even speak in speak in our mandarin because our mandarin and their mandarin might not be the same err


so, there were actually instances whereby for example me and my friend are talking my friend is a china, china girl china friend err from china so she also don't really understand what I'm saying because some of my chinese are not very accurate and that kind of thing


so err what I'm trying to say is that why should we only focus on mandarin and not focusing on other chinese dialects because for for example youngsters right now when they learn chinese dialects when they learn dialects they are actually also learning from grandparents


so I would say that having an option having an option for chinese dialect to be offered as a mother tongue it wouldn't err sort of impact, a lot because, we can also learn chinese in between, halfway there we can still learn chinese and we still can converse what is important is that we can converse properly


in uh, the chinese dialect so that we can also talk to for example talk to our grandparents because right now there's actually the dialects are actually the hinder for inter generation bonding, so I have to I have to uh focus on this point so we besides being isolated from the society there are a lot of senior citizens that are unable to communicate with their family because of the language barrier between the younger generations and the pioneer generations so


I actually did a research so there's this doctor #ng bee chin#, so we actually have to like uh so he mentioned not taking immediate steps to restore dialects in our community may result in dialects being lost after this generation so we all know that uh most of our ancestors are coming from china and this is where the dialects


passed down, so if let's say we, uh are only focusing on chinese mandarin and we do not sort of like there's no option to offer these chinese dialects as an option, we will not be able to, uh tackle on these few areas for uh these a few countries for example there is this uh Chongqing that kind of uh country cities that do not speak uh chinese that much they probably speak in their own dialects so having an having an offer


uh having an option to actually learn these will actually increase and then err like sort of like !wow! the china people the china chinese or like the chinese people that !wow! we actually have we actually know our dialects very well and it might create a better bond between err each countries


and uh ya each each other that kind of thing so err, ya so this is actually my point of view why I think that the chinese dialect should be actually offered in mother tongue because, chinese can always be taught err in in terms of conversing


et cetera but dialects are actually a little bit harder to teach so, err it it will be better for, to to be offered as a chinese err mother tongue language, yup


prompt three of four


okay so learning is best outside of classroom so learning outside the classroom provides a real world context and expose students to a range of different learnings, so err in sum it up kids tend to learn better when they are outside of classroom so there's actually a report published by the oxford


uh found learning of outside of classroom contributed significantly to raising standards and improving students uh personal and social, it and emotional development so it's uh it's a more ya so this is why I think learning is actually best out of classroom


okay yes I agree time and err logistics and cost might be one of the factors why err learning is not really the best out of classroom but, right now for example let's just take singapore as an example the birth rate for singapore is actually relatively low err if you have ever noticed that there is actually a lot of schools that is actually merging there are actually teachers who are actually going to be out of job soon because of the lack of


err students in that particular school that's why we have a merge so what if we were to do this, err, we were to take it the learning out of classroom and then we have the student ratio will be probably if let's say a class of twenty we'll have probably two to three err two to three teachers I'm pretty sure that not all if you are having a


err learning outside of classroom there'll be probably sufficient teachers because let's just take like a normal err primary school subject there's four subject so you require four four teachers so having four teachers to actually take care of err twenty students for this whole entire uh outside of classroom


is actually more than enough because the student ratio will be one out of five one to five so err I am pretty sure since they are actually very trained to uh teach students there are actually err more than, there are actually more than enough uh experience to actually look after a group of five so it will be sort of like a mini projects whereby they go out and then they have to interact and uh it this is this covers the part of logistics and


ya covers the part of logistics so for cost factor likewise, if you're gonna do it in a school you have to upgrade your systems like uh textbooks you have to err print a lot of worksheets you have to print a lot of textbooks you have to err there'll be electricity et cetera


, computer labs you have to upgrade your IT IT labs and all so these are also additional cost yes the cost might the cost incur for learning outside of classroom might be a bit high but, if it really benefits the kids in future for their future growth why not I'm pretty sure that the the schools or the education err educationers will actually agree with me that having to put like for example uh maybe the cost is


a few thousands more, for their all of the all the the kids in the future why not, so there's actually also a research show showing that the kids are actually healthier and happier err they actually do better in schools


err when they are learning outside of classroom, so education is actually an important err determinant for future health so, I would say that education is not really just about the four walls err I mean it's not within the four walls and then just about lessons and all but having some outdoor


environment it sort of encourages skills like for example negotiating skills problem solving skills where which is actually err very important for child development, and right now with technology err technology is has has been improving and kids accessing to technology has been


all the way up err I would say that learning can be learning from like for example classroom can be from anywhere but if you are learning outside of classroom you are learning of a different skill set, so uh that's why I think that we should uh kids these days or anyone learning is actually best outside of classroom because we are able to visualise better we are abide able to apply uh the the set of problems that we face


in exams or in in the future, yup so that's my point


okay uh okay I will just sum it up everything why I think learning outside of classroom is better err okay learning outside of classroom is actually a very broad term so err in terms of like outdoor play like like your PE lessons like environmental err education adventures err adventure activities et cetera


so one of the key uh reason why I think learning outside of classroom is good is because it sort of uh improve academic achievement, it sort of also provide a bridge to higher order learning it also develop social skills so when you're outside the classroom you interact with your friends more because you only have like


like your friends or your you got buddy or your teachers to be there to like you know not get lost or anything like that so, also it also develop skills and independence, so this is actually one of the factors why I think learning off a classroom learning outside of classroom is actually uh good


and , okay hold on , so if you see your students uh if you see your friends everyday in class, it's very hard to form a friendship because your like your teacher will always be like teaching through textbooks and all so when you are outside of classroom you actually it actually helps to err build friendships


so which is I think right now most err people are actually very socially awkward this might be the reason why err, because they're hardly hardly interact with each other so with uh learning outside of classroom this might aid them as well, okay so


another thing would be direct experience outdoor is actually more motivating and has actually more impact and credibility why because for example err like what you've mentioned you said english math and chinese , err subjects are actually not beneficial if were to learn outside classroom but then


when you were very young, I'm pretty sure that like for me likewise when I'm being taught like A B Cs apple err bottle ball or like cat I'm being showed pictures, so why not bring it to the real outside world where you just walk pass like okay hey this is a tree this is a this is a bird that kind of thing so kids are actually able to like oh okay tell this is how a bird looks like this is how a tree looks like et cetera


for math maybe uh you are talking about like those one two three those very basic one yes it is actually very basic it's very it's actually very easy to be taught outside, , maybe what learning outside best learning is best outside of classroom meant really is like err taking some time off instead of everyday cooping in the classroom learning everything


it'll be better to actually learn it outside for certain uh subjects maybe not for all but certain subjects err like for example I would say chinese or like maybe chems physics is actually learn best to learn outside of classroom like for example chemistry let's just take chemistry for example


right now we are also not uh sitting in the classroom everyday flipping through our textbook to just read what are the chemicals uh structures and all we actually have to go to the chemistry lab and then we have to test all the substances out so I think this is err what they meant from learning outside


because, if you are just gonna refer to for example textbooks and whatever that you are lecturer is talking about your teachers are talking about it might not make sense at all and there's actually studies showing that err most people are actually very visual err they


they are all very visual err person so they take things better when they see it not when they are listening to it, yup so with that it's actually uh a way for them to, develop their brains err brain skills also err creativity and also sort of like err


to, it's it's more like a provide a challenge and the opportunity for them to take also, so err lastly I would say that uh it also improves the young people's attitude because when you're out there you have to take care of each other it


it's a very good environment for them in future, yup so that's my point yup


prompt one out of four


err okay so err I in my opinion I disagree with the fact that we are using subjective and, or non-academic factors for admission err mainly it's because why do we have admission in our in my opinion is to actually find the student or the participant that is most likely to excel err in such a environment so


if you were to put based on merit of course you can do it academically or based on non-academic factors such as character, but you uh one also has to actually understand okay academically speaking it will be easy you just need to go for your exam


probably they will take the one with the highest average score but if you put non-academic factors into consideration I would think that there are no test to actually judge you know how one is actually based


how passionate is someone or, how much adversity has he or she overcome so err a human opinion has to be considered but if you instead of going for an exam you actually go for an interview et cetera there will be in my opinion there will be human bias which will actually open up you know


into, open up the situation to include biasness racism or even forms of corruption because they do know that okay, as long as this particular interviewer likes me I my chances will be higher as compared to basting based on err academic based on results yup that's my first point


ya err ya I actually I get where you are coming from of course it would be I would say cruel to judge someone based on their results but at the end of the day I would agree that non-academic factors


should be considered for admission but err my main concern would be actually the field of studies, okay maybe just put things a bit into perspective okay there may be a student you know who overcome a lot let's say single parent you know had to fight for his or her scholarship or do not have any scholarship but is very passionate about being a doctor


so err in my opinion the number of seats available in a medical course is limited of course we should focus on the, students that are most likely to succeed err in this particular course or degree and next is passion may not actually translate to ability I think many would agree you would rather have a doctor who


has a lot of ability to actually treat a sick person but may not have a very high EQ may be you know uh a little obnoxious, may not do very well in sports et cetera but he has the ability


to actually treat you as compared to maybe a doctor who is not that qualified in a sense where but is very passionate I think anybody who will be in that position would rather have a professional who


is actually much better in doing what he is supposed to do, even though he or she may not be the most passionate person so err in my opinion so err what I would feel will be good will be perhaps there may be a better segregation on


different admission non-academic factors on admissions for different courses such as if you are going into social , social projects perhaps you have to be passionate but


if you are going err into something that's medical law err policy formation perhaps err it's better to have someone who will is actually more likely to succeed academically as compared to another person of course


know if you are going for sports degree definitely non-academic factors should be the main consideration, yup that's my point


err okay I actually audrey I understand where you are coming from of course I do agree that err non-academic factors should be considered but should we put too much emphasis on this err what I foresee will be actually


how would you judge a person's character there is no test or anything that I am aware of to be able to judge a person's character so err for example if you are using whether you choose


a non-academic factors of such as whether this person has overcome adversity let's assume that you have only one seat left in that particular course , how and there are two person who actually overcome adversity one may have travelled from a war-torn country to singapore to complete his to take part in a degree the other one may have grew up as an orphan so


who should decide, who is more worthy because this is a intangible property are you saying that okay the person who grew up as a single parent with a single parent or an orphan is worse off than the other who came from a war-torn country therefore he or she should


have that seat, vice versa so err I do agree that you know err non-academic factors should be considered but I also want to exercise caution, in a way where how are we going to go about it I think at this moment uh why academic err factors err has been considered number one is perhaps


it is easier for them to assess err who is more likely to succeed I won't say that it is a hundred percent accurate but if you were to, be considering a candidate to take part uh to for a mathematics degree of course the bare minimum you want the person to be at least good in math err that's my opinion but if you were to put a


non-academic factor in I worry that you know how are you going to judge whether one person is better than the other so err back to my initial suggestion would be okay for certain courses definitely the higher


weightage to be placed on non-academic factors but for conventional courses where it's really results driven, err my opinion will still be, to place the emphasis err largely on academic factors


ya so just to give you an I wouldn't say it's an example but just to give you a scenario if I were to be in trouble with the law or any for example I would want to hire the


best lawyer the one who has , the highest you know win rate in a particular discipline rather than another one who is passionate, you know so err, I wouldn't for such conventional courses I feel that academic factors should bear the err larger weight but if you are talking about err sports err social work of course you have to consider you know whether