dare to err to be in the media to put yourself in the media and yet you do not want people to know who you are is, kind of like you know something isn't is not very very right over there so, err identity protection is only I feel that is only


maybe err applicable for people who are vulnerable maybe you say victim of certain crimes you want to protect their their identity err, so that they they are anonymous probably yes on that point but if you are the person providing information and you are the person who are coming out to to direct something at some point so I don't feel that you have the right to to to


be remain as anonymous ya that's my stand


okay err yeah you have your point but err, you see some people they they make use of media to to influence people but they do not show their true self they have hidden agenda like what I said earlier like for some events like the recent events err people might try to influence the the top


of people err of the general public I mean that err this is the correct thing to do this is the correct err thing to to to how to say this the correct action this is the correct err direction but


it might not be the correct one you see err in the internet they are oh not the internet on the in the media, even some of the advertisement they might be misleading they might be err not really telling you the the the let's says the the right way of certain


certain value should be, so we do not know who is the person who create these if let's say we do not know who is the person who create these so called values there is no way we can tell the general public that these values are not are not err actually that correct


so everybody has their their way of thinking I cannot say that this value is totally wrong but when I know who is this person I might be able to to maybe direct my


my thoughts directly to this person to actually, let him or her understand that this, should be done in another way so if I do not know this person and I cannot justify it err I cannot get him to justify that err what he is (oo) how to say I cannot err get him to to to understand


what is the the so called my my thoughts of correct values so, he will continue misleading the general public which I don't think that is very correct , and , being anonymous err in media is really very dangerous you err maybe we go to a specific err direction maybe in social media people who are anonymous can be up to


pray on certain group of people and a lot of people are being err are suffering because of this group of err people , so if let's say social media we only allow certain verification that you are truly this person to sign up for an account in order to to actually


voice across your your thoughts probably err there will be lesser people who suffer through these predators that's what I thought so it's not very wise for in my in my stand that err


to for people to remain anonymous when portrayed in media, you have to be responsible for what what you say what you what you show and what you what you actually try to influence I'd I feel that people have to be responsible lah that's my thoughts


okay totally understand your point err but err there are some things that I'm more concerned on of when people err, have the rights to remain err anonymous when portrayed in media like you know there are some people who likes to do personal harassment


so these people they do not use their real name they do not use their real identity so how are we going to to locate these people if let's say in media they just tell you oh my name is err tan blah blah


then they start their their harassment you know on media they would don't show their face they ask to like you know err to to the media not to show their face to blurred their face but they're they're making statements that is hurting another another party and


because they do not allow the the the media to to show their face to not allow the media to err, to release their name how is the person being attacked going to find out who is this person who actually spread rumours in the media and then err openly attacking this person is not right correct I feel that is is very very unfair in a way


and not only this, about harassment or we talk about rumours, sometimes people might give wrong information and some information that is they give out is very


how to say attractive to the to the people and people and might be so interested in the in the information they start to question the the maybe affected err organisation and the organisation will be overwhelmed with all these err inquiries


like maybe some some fake err rumours like giving out err goodie bag or something probably you know some people just like to like to give out some rumours just to , give some organisation problem so these organisation are facing problem and they are not able to find out who is the source of this


problem I personally feel that this is not right if , I I err I will still feel that err in order to make a statement in media people must be able to err


to at least probably just err name name them not not totally anonymity err you should you should at least know who is this person probably the face , and and the name yeah that's what I feel


part three debate topic three


okay for my part I will feel that err, the right is to store and use our personal information I believe that before they use these they have already there is normally a form or a clause for them to actually mark out err to get your consent I will feel I will says that


so if you have given the consent it is up to them to store and use the personal information , err probably err what mandy is talking about are those that we are without consent so without consent


err why would you even provide your personal information in the first place because you do not want people to use your information then you shouldn't even even provide so if you have re fill up some forms you given your personal information you will actually have this err


understanding that in some areas your personal data will be leaked there is no way err hundred per cent to protect your personal information as when you have voluntarily given it out so it is it is very difficult for us to say how to


how to, err stop this err rights thing to store and use our personal information if you do not want people to use it I think in the first place you don't even err fill up any forms any contest any surveys everything you should not even even


even produced in in basically ah I will feel that you don't even have those err social media accounts because when you sign up for those accounts you are leaking out personal information already so, if you do not want people to to store and use your personal information how are you going to log into your social media accounts they need to store all this


err informations in order for you to to log in to your accounts they are the one that help you to retrieve your accounts they are the one who give you a link to restore your password, to to to actually err to to how to say to


to to recover your account so if you do not give them the rights to store and use your personal information how do they know that you are actually the rightful owner of the account


[orh] okay so err okay I understand your concern is about the using part of our our personal information , err I so far I believe most of the, organisation that actually collected our personal information they are not really using it the the app that you were talking about I understand err I guess I know which app it is and what they are doing is actually maybe more like


understanding your likes and dislikes so they actually, give you some ads that might interest you , don't you find it actually err make your life easier sometime you are you might be searching for some services so they keep prompting you with those err sponsor ads err maybe you might find it irritating but I find it actually err quite helpful for example I was looking for a pre-school for my son


and err this app actually err, prompt me with some sponsor ads about the pre-school in singapore so it's kinds of like ease my my how to say it ease my my


load so I don't need to go around searching like which which school are there around around my area then how do I make comparison you actually , save my time that's what I feel I find it very very useful you see err maybe to you you don't really like it but


in a way this, app doing what this app is doing it actually matches my interest so, to me I find it useful I'm not sure about you and like what I say how do they get our personal information in the first place is we ourself give it to them voluntarily so


if you give it voluntarily I don't think they are actually using your your information without your consent there is always this err clause that they will they will ask, err if you are okay that they they use your particulars I believe if you unchecked or you say no they will not


use your particulars I believe these are all through consent that before they they touch on err using your your your personal information in this, era I will says most of the organisations they are smart enough they work smart so err if you have


not given your consent they will not use your information but the rights to store our personal information I feel that they still really need to have the rights like what I say to retrieve accounts to verify identity all this thing they need our information there is no way they don't store it


okay if they don't store it maybe one day you might lose your so-called account forever you know, there's no way they can they can justify you are the owner err and I will just touch on the part about personal using of our personal information again I feel that err


they will only use it err if you have consented if you did not consent to it I don't think they will they will just use it without our knowledge I still don't think it will happen, ya


so actually err I understand your point err about the the, phone storing information than you lost your your err credit card details to some hackers this kind of things err


ya , I I still believe that err storing of our information yes since you have agreed storing is, err is a basic, okay and using our personal information unfortunately your case I will feel that is is


it's a very unfortunate case err, using of personal information which we voluntary giving out, I don't think they will do that so err cases like yours I think is is a very I cannot say rare because people are losing their phones all the time so


is is a bit err difficult to to to to says err how to how to safeguard the personal information because this thing is you who key it in the phone yourself


ya so I think this is our own personal responsibility lah, sorry overrun okay so I stop


part one debate topic one


okay so in a age of err I believe in the age of the internet TV and newspaper have uh become irrelevant err because uh as we know that err internet is I believe that internet is like err a need


now like everybody needs the internet a bit reason being you know especially the search engine uh everybody needs to uh like where to eat, err what good food err how to go to that place the map


err I need an electrician my air-con spoil you know everything we have to go through a search engine err not really err have to go through but it is so convenient that everyone is so reliant on err the search engine which is part of internet


and err almost err four point five billion of people around the world is an active user on the for for internet, then uh for newspaper and TV wise because we have internet and internet you know err we can go we can source a lot of things err we can err using using internet you know we can read the newspaper I mean we can read the news okay uh on the internet


and then we can err watch a lot of err programs using internet, and err social media okay so that is the reason why I believe that you know in the age of internet TV and newspaper has uh become irrelevant


okay yeah err agree with err certain points like you know uh yes there are still people who who who does err watch TV you know they still read newspaper , but uh I believe err for now err because it says in the age of internet so the age might increase so when age increase in the internet slowly ah


they will eat up you know the the time spent on watching television you know and time spent and money spent to buy newspaper, or they subscribe to newspaper okay one thing I feel that is irrelevant, because err let's talk about newspaper


you see we need to print the newspaper we waste paper right, and then we need people to send okay the newspaper waste of resources err when we send newspaper, they need a car or van to send correct so waste of petrol waste of diesel whichever vehicle they're they're they're driving okay


so err that is a reason why I believe in the age of internet okay slowly ah newspaper might become irrelevant of course now yes there are still people (ppc), printing newspaper you know what our looking uh reading newspaper sending newspaper err so for now ah as of err april twenty twenty


okay uh almost four point five seven billion err people they're using active users of err internet so this is that this this actually it it's up err fifty nine percent of the global population meaning is already more than half so


like you know the topic in the age of internet so slowly ah when the internet grows ah like sixty per cent then seventy per cent then slowly slowly yeah and as for television wise err, it has become more of like err going to be like an internet style already you know even now the they they put like digital TV ya your TV is smart TV you can use internet on the TV of course err I cannot say that err people serve


err social media on TV which is a bit like, too much lah like for example my TV is seventy-five inch I cannot be serving internet on TV but you know we can we can err use, err our TV okay to to watch like certain uh social media you know on TV for example like err we all know lah you know some some would watch video clips and so what we use TV and sometimes we even connect our laptop okay err to the TV


ya so that is the reason why I I believe err , at the age of internet TV and television and newspaper will slowly lah slowly become irrelevant yeah


okay err yes err a certain err I mean a a handful of elderly they are still very err they're not not tech savvy , but err still still err they're now err going into the internet world like for example you know err some some uh TV programs you know they were saying like err okay the even the elderly ah the Merdeka generation the PG err p and the pioneer generation they are slowly err


learning how to use you know internet social media okay err to actually make their lives uh more colourful like for example ah err the recent COVID, COVID nineteen the circuit breakdown okay err those young people right err some of the volunteer for volunteers they go around to those err more of the matured estates okay and go and help those ah to


those err err elderly who are staying alone you know without any kids on, not married okay they they went to their place and then to teach them okay how to use internet okay err how to how to use err social media to make their lives easier okay and why do I think that err internet is slowing slowly conquering the world err like I mentioned lah a lot of things like


the the the search engine okay we need to we err partially of people like they're actually relying on search on on search engine, and as we all know right sometimes in the past in the past without err not not so much of err internet conquering the world ah err we can leave our phone at home


we can leave our phones at home but for now ah even kids ah , they they they need to they need to bring their phone okay err with them okay to access to err internet okay even err my okay my mom is a my mum is a Merdeka generation


so err even she is she is a illiterate okay that means uh she has never been to school before but still you know she is err utilizing the internet, err because we taught her how to and she feels that you know oh yes you know I use a certain social media ha I can err see I can watch video you know I can learn how to cook


I can err I I know what is the world out there like you know , like for television ah not always ah that is not always like , every certain period of time like certain timing oh you can see the world news you can see what is the world or what happen what is happening in the world but if let's say you talk about internet there are certain social media right whereby you know you can still access to all this like you know what is happening in the world out there


like we know or err a lot of like raping case criminal case err a lot of crimes happening out there and so on so it's like now err the social media sort of like becomes giving people err the first-hand news rather than I have to wait for oh uh


seven-thirty got news uh eight-thirty got news so that is the reason why I believe you know , the internet and err the the in the age of internet okay err TV and newspaper will become irrelevant because you know err


internet can easily replace err whatever TV and newspaper has unless you talk about you know you need a physical copy lah like you say after reading the newspaper you use the used newspaper to wrap vegetables or fruits this one internet cannot do it ya


ya I agree with err what you mention on you know a lot of fake news we all know lah err social media they always err people people tend to share share news because they believe that they thought that you know it is a real news so they share but


like I mention err it is it is a new world already you know err if if internet if internet err is not is not relevant or or or internet is not useful , over the years you know there will not be so many people you know using the internet even like I'm err like you mentioned newspaper there are a lot of err news where can a lot of err articles then you can learn things err


but even in the on the internet err is is is very is very err it's very convenient it becomes very convenient okay err that is the reason because because internet is growing that is the reason why you know err things are getting more and more tech-savvy because err they want to be in line with internet world ya


and even for err like like let's let's talk about err getting into a a better world okay err we all know that the world has a problem, the problem is err you know err, pollution okay so if you talk about err in a long run right


err like I like I mentioned ah you see if you if you need to read err the hard copy newspaper right we need printing you know we need all this so when we talk about you know recycle lah we talk about err being being clean and green we talk about err err err to save all this to save the world you know save the trees


in a long run I believe err if internet can do all this if we can read the news on internet we can subscribe the newspaper like on internet okay , err they will they will cut down on the newspaper because err you see first thing they don't need to to produce like print newspaper printing we need ink we need the machine we need especially paper which is cutting down trees yeah so err I believe because of this you know in the long run in the future err


newspaper become irrelevant as for TV wise like I mentioned lah TV will be will still be there lah TV will still be a television but you talk about err program wise you see even now a lot of channels err they become they they they have they have gone into you know


you can you can watch it on internet ya because you know oh six o'clock I still working I cannot I cannot err catch my favourite drama in the past you know we have the recording right the the tape recorder , now the red tape recording even the even even the what err DVD player tape recorder player already wiped out already I can't even find ya so I that is the reason why I believe ah


err in the age of internet ah all these will become quite right irrelevant ah ya so I believe internet will be err growing slowly yeah when I don't know lah but you know yeah as as it age, yes it will it will conquer the world not not conquer the world lah but it becomes you know better err newspaper and t television becomes irrelevant


part two debate topic two , okay people have the rights to remain anonymous when portrayed in media uh because very simple lah because err in the media you


know like err this these are all personal if you talk about social media err why do we have to err install or why do we have to use our own, email and uh personal details to to to submit because it's personal details ya and of course uh this uh personal data protection or or err order


that is the reason why I believe you know people have the rights to remain anonymous and portrayed err when portrayed in media and also like you know like crime watch we talk about err some TV program, in crime watch err when people interview the victim okay err they they they mosaic their their face or they even you know use another voice okay blurred their voice because err they believe


that you know they can have the rights to remain anonymous when on media err because is very case sensitive lah you know sometimes when you talk about on the, in the in the media meaning ha everybody can see right you watch TV you don't know who is watching you go on social media you don't know who is scrolling and who is actually you know


err looking at you watching you , so I believe you know it is err b people have the right, rights to remain an anonymous when portrayed in the media


okay yeah (ppc) err I agree with err what you what you mentioned like err recently not recently okay for for


nowadays okay a lot of people they they use anonymous okay to become p keyboard warrior in the media social media yeah so some of them they, actually err err use abuse this anonymous


err privilege ah to go and err err err, crash people on the internet okay but err that is that is (ppc) we talk about err a very handful of people lah okay a a small handful of people but what I do what I do believe is err why do I believe that people have the rights to remain anonymous when portrayed in the media


if we talk about err err remain anonymous ah meaning err privacy mah correct, let's not talk about media you see when we are portrayed in the media ha media is almost like a world err everybody can see it like very open okay when I talk about media like you talk about television internet social media or everywhere when it's media means anybody can see okay anybody can watch anybody can access


err so remaining anonymous err people have had people have the rights to remain anonymous just like you know even like err, I'm in my room okay this is my room I have my own privacy even my parents have to respect my privacy my own space okay


so irregardless you talk about in the media ha of course people have the rights to remain anonymous what right so that is my my uh err argument on that err of course when you talk about people being anonymous you know err


trying to be keyboard warrior all those are quite , they're quite obvious lah you know or else you know we won't be able to identify and you know say oh you know a lot of people they're anonymous they become keyboard warrior


but when I talk about having rights to remain anonymous I talk about those that you know they really need to , err protect their own identity ya for example like I mentioned earlier you know being a victim err on on certain certain err certain cases like you know a crime err a crime case okay those


err uh or, or those having ex-criminal okay we talk about ex-criminal they they want to err come back to the society again but they are not, ready yet so they can they they have the rights to remain anonymous right and err


yeah so I believe people still still have the rights to remain anonymous lah when portrayed in the media correct because I believe that err I think me media is a very big thing , ya so this is the reason why I think people do have the rights to remain anonymous , because in the media ha I cannot like anyhow oh you know speak anything in this world is like that like even this like even this err whole session right we cannot talk about sensitive topic and sensitive things so yeah people have the rights to remain anonymous when portrayed in the media


okay yeah uh I I I I get what you mean like uh a lot of people they might give a wrong information they might teach the wrong things they might lead people in the wrong way uh uh by using an anonymous


err why I talk about err yes I I I I I agree with what you what you what you mentioned earlier err these people remaining err these people you know they portray a they they they they make themselves an anonymous in the media , err they mislead people but err we are not


talking about you know err we're not talking about you know , err having, no anonymous in the media anymore taking this out no we're talking about people still have the rights to remain an anonymous for example if you say err


those that are using anonymous in the media they are doing uh bad things you know err leading giving wrong information misleading people err that's the reason why we have those uh uh <mandarin>执法者:zhi fa zhe</mandarin> you know the police the the whoever they can they it's


it's very easy because they are in the media mah so it's very easy people who do bad things even if they remain as a an anonymous they do bad things it's easy to catch them you know but, today we talk about those people ah those people who are doing good deeds okay there are a lot of err err err artist okay a lot of the artist err err in other countries err different countries like even in singapore err and


I but I read more on on that, the overseas are more of international artist you know they remain as an anonymous ah, err to do good deeds for example charity okay err they they still hold the rights I believe they still hold the rights to remain an anonymous because err they cannot be going around you know telling people in the media eh err I you know I have d err done this err charity you know I have


I've donated how much you know to this err uh charity and that charity you know it actually attracts a lot of people to know that okay this particular artist a okay he has so much money to do charity then you know it might lead


err err people ah to go and like, kidnap them you know so crime will increase so that is the reason why I think people still have the rights to remain ah an anonymous when portrayed in the media okay err it is easier for if if those anonymous they're doing bad things in the media it is easier for the


the it is easier to get caught okay people can catch the catch them easier than those that you know , because I don't have the rights to remain anonymous I'm doing a good deed I do charity I donated billions of dollars and because of this err I get I'm so open in the media people people attack me because they keep err they know that I have that much of money I'm rich I'm wealthy


err I get myself err open for people to come and kidnap me and it's very difficult for people to go and err, (ppc) catch them ya because they are not on the media so that is the reason why I I believe that people have the rights to remain an anonymous err when portrayed in the media


ya (ppc) ya but but now you know thing time time time exchange , you know these these err so called err a group of err anonymous ah who are who who are misleading the world one, giving fake news ah now they upgraded themselves they are no longer anonymous anymore


they actually you know use err they actually go into other people's social media ah, and then they take they they capture other people's identity meaning for example err they they go to social media, okay they go to any profile available ones like for example facebook okay they capture their their their their photos and then they create another account like using their the another person I per person's identity


okay to to become somebody okay like err like you mention are being anonymous okay err no face no name no nothing okay they start to harass people but nowadays no all these err all these so called anonymous ah doing the bad things ah they upgraded themselves already now they have photo but it's not them so it still


err err err it is still, not fair for those ah who wants to remain an anonymous err for doing good lah to to to to take away this right, ya, so I I still think that you know people have the rights to remain anonymous ah for those that doing good lah


part three debate topic three


okay err social media should not have the rights to store and use our personal information err because it's personal information so ya they should not have the rights uh to store and use unless


you know err they have our they have our permission you know err it's always like that, err, because it's social media what if if they hold the rights, to store and use our personal information ah is going to be very dangerous err like I mention social media ah meaning a lot of people they're they're going to access this uh social media


so if if they they they hold the rights to store my personal information err which means that err they can so the social social media can use my uh names my my my name my my date of birth you know err


to have other use okay which is err very very dangerous , like you know if they store our personal and use err store and uh use use our personal information , like now you know there are a lot of hackers err it's very easy for these hackers err to hack into our the hack into the the the social media system


and then to actually err extract our personal information and then you know fraud also, and of course err internet scams lah you know even the the the advertisement also taught us you know about all these scams


so if let's say social media they they have the rights to store and use our personal information ah it's going to, to be very chaotic lah ya so, I believe I feel and I, think err social media


should not have the rights to store and use our personal information


ya true agree agree on that err agree on that err like you know I always need to risk I always need to retrieve my , my my accounts on social media at times because I forgotten you know err err my password or something but that is err with with your that's when we are talking about you know err accessing


into our own social media account of course you know they I need all these err personal information but when we talk about err days the social meters store ah and have, the they have the rights ah rights ah meaning you know a bit heavy lah the word they they have the rights to store and use ah use they use you know ah they use our personal information ah


cannot already like err recently I got to realise actually is as it has been a very very very err it has it has been ongoing for quite some time already , I got to know that a certain social media they actually err err err store our


personal information on a lot of different apps you know which is quite scary you know err we we thought that you know oh you know they are hearing us like when we talk about something when we mention about something you know it always appears on social social media ah appears on the advertisement on the ads


yeah so err then I got to realise that that particular social media they actually you know, store all this which I feel that it is very unsafe so err like I mention already is already it personal information you know so storing probably yes because err like err lovell mention we have to err


that that that there must be a that there might there must be a certain ways err for us to retrieve, back our account if like in any case we forgotten our password to that particular social media we they need to store our our information but to use ah


to use our personal information, err I think no if if they have the rights to use our personal information err that means they abuse already err that that is why you know the PDPA err comes in what ya because probably I don't know I'm not very sure ah in the past you know err


social media or certain companies or anything that we sign up for we use our personal information you know this this err it it has been used by by by them , therefore you know a lot of things happen ah like fraud lah hacking lah internet scam lah and so on err that is the reason why err suddenly eh not suddenly lah you know uh the PDPA comes in ya so err


you can say that yes they have the right to store our information, err for for for, like identity identifying purpose but you talk about using our personal information I still feel that they do not have the rights to to use our uh personal information


for my part I I for my part I feel that err they have no rights lah no rights to store and use our personal information because I personally err err err


I personally encountered this problem before of course yes what you say is correct err they they we need to give consent before err err submitting or before we err install a social media we need to consent err we we give consent because err we want to err access these social media


but by giving consent that okay you you can you can store my err personal information but that doesn't mean that you have the rights to use it , okay like in the past I was using err a certain model of of a mobile phone


okay and because err I have to I have to access to that I to give my personal information to use the phone that is like I've no choice mah I have, have to, I have to use I have to I have to give my personal information but because of this err I need to use the phone I I give consent that okay you can store you have you can have my personal information and and then you know I personally err encountered like


that that particular phone that model okay it actually err I was being my my my credit card was being charged , err, or or on certain certain certain apps okay and luckily luckily it was err luckily because I lost my credit card


and then you know I change and a another new a new credit card and I forgotten to enter the new credit card details in my phone okay and then it was charged o err the email came in so I I I receive an email on err err


err, having charged through my you know that that that that email that it's err in my phone so uh because I use that email to access my phone so I was being charged err err quite a big sum of money I was, quite shocked is US in USD about thousand over dollars USD for err some apps and games err then I I received their email but then I realise that oh it was charged uh on the old credit card


so that is the reason why I feel that you know of course yes social media they they need our information like like you mention I consent yes but to use, err it's a no and whether they use or not (ppc) is not err is not is is an in it another story we talk about people hacking okay like err they hack into the social media then they use my they they got my personal information you know they hack into it and then that is how you know


err it happened so that is the reason why I I think I believe err social media they should not err hold the rights lah to store our information and our our store and use of personal information I think even if they store they they will still err need to


err let us know what is the purpose of storing and how how long it will it will store lah and of, of, err I believe yes it is it there there is no way that we can stop you know whether err these these social this certain social media platform whether they the the storing part ah


the our personal information being stored at their platform is it safe or not we do not know but hackers are everywhere we knew we all know that hackers are everywhere yeah and the other part is err using our personal information ah it depends on what kind of


using lah ya if uh like if let's say I sign I I I I download this social media, and then I use my personal information err to access the social media so that I can use err what if you know nowadays there are a lot of err different kinds of weird apps okay err different kinds of shopping apps lah buying apps lah and so on if they use of personal information err


they might they might, if I consent I can you can use my personal information you can you can store how how do I know the credibility of this err social media I know if I give consent already I must you know err kind of trust it but err to use it


it's a no thing lah maybe you say store yes but use it no ya how do I know what are you using it for err maybe you sell my my personal information like my data my contact number to err some companies like you know nowadays we have a lot of err SMS coming in


you know ah like you know horse betting you know err want to borrow money err very err err, very small err err , err very low very low err err interest rate and so on like you know football betting online football betting ya I don't


I don't until today I still don't understand you know how did all these people get our my my contact number although is through SMS lah but now the they upgraded to they upgraded to another level already they use whatsapp, ya because uh a lot of people nowadays err including me ah I only I only go into SMS when needed for example if I need to access my err digital banking you know I need the OTP that is the only time that I access to SMS other than that ha


I know that there is an SMS coming in , and there is a notification I don't even bother to open it, because if err if it's urgent I think you can call me or you can you know use err other social media to contact me yeah so err that is a that back to the personal information yeah so nowadays ah these people are getting our our our information


personal information are like name like contact number they can like you know or whatsapp us and you know err SMS us, err leading us to the wrong way err people like us probably most, most lah most people lah who are educated enough they will know that okay I am going to skip this you know but those err maybe those that ya err


not as not as err err, not as fortunate ah to receive education ah they might think that eh !wow! I can you know now it is so convenient for me to err err loan money, you know err it is so convenient oh the interest is so low you know and they don't even know what is happening ya and for and for those who are you know addicted to gambling even worse is so convenient for them to you know


just err borrow money why because, social media got our can use our can store and use our personal information and we do not know whether err all this all this err like, you know err personal loans ah they get our information from


from social media that we sign up we do not know so err I still think that you know social media they should not err have the rights to store and use our personal information lah because is is still very scary like the in the social media world ya


debate, part one part one debate topic one


okay so today we are here to discuss about whether schools should consider subjective and non academic factors for admissions so, when they do talk of subjective factors it would be based on probably their talents perhaps their, more as


err they're better in terms of aesthetics err, let's say they're talented in arts they're talented in the music, aspect or even in sports and the other subjective factors that they look at is community service their interest the CCA and whether they have any work or leadership experiences so err it is my point of view that we should consider subjective factors as well rather than just base it on a


academic merit, okay this is so that err we can ensure that decisions are more holistic and less weight in on just the digits that you receive at the end of examination, and since our country is based on the idea of meritocracy, err


the principle of meritocracy we should give everyone an equal chance, because if they are just based on the results and the more well to do, students would have more opportunities and, err, to excel in life because their parents will be able to afford


tuition extra enrichment classes that the poorer students may not be able to have, so if we just focus so much on just the results, err, the less privileged students will not have as as much opportunities


do you have any point of view


okay so just now earlier you talked about err it would be unfair to err decide, or assess whether this student is suitable, err, to go to the next level based on just personalities, err be it their talents in the arts


science or err, music even so I'm saying that actually it's not just these areas based on their talents it could be also in terms of whether they have work at any work experience whether they have any leadership experiences and even the third thing community service because if they have


err, done community service it will mean that they have the heart to serve the society and they would have some, err, good values learnt and acquired from this kind of, community services for example if they go they go to the elderly home to volunteer


err regularly it means that they have the heart to serve the less privileged the less fortunate and the needy and even orphanages they will have a broader perspective of our society due to these experiences and therefore if we can give them that merit


they would have an advantage over the rest err even if this person who did, who, did poorer in terms of results, okay so just now you also mentioned a second thing that it is, err with, examinations and based on the results testing it will ensure fairness and meritocracy but what if I say


that , today we have someone or students A who's poorer so he he or she doesn't have as much opportunities in tuition enrichment courses verses to uh student B who is richer, so he has received a lot of support in terms of education okay so if these students these two students go for an examination and students A student A scored one mark lesser than student B


okay and student A is the poorer one with less help and support given does it mean that student A is not as intelligent and not as , abled to do well in the exams as compared to student B who has received so much help it could be that student A is much more intelligent and therefore with on his own he's able to do well versus student B who has received so much help


so are they ready for the next level would student A who have done so much on his or own home or her own to revise and work hard, won't he student A be more ready as compared to student B who has just given, err a lot of support planning schedule err


schedule of timetable, err, after school enrichment tuition, you know that kind of thing so that would mean that actually student A would be more ready right since he or she is more intelligent, okay so when it comes to fairness talking about fairness like how do we define fairness because these two students are starting from a different


err starting uh point, student B is obviously far ahead because he has he or she would have received a lot of more support whereas student A is much more further back, and needs more needs to do more in order to run the race and complete the race


so in that point , and on that on that note err, it's very hard to define fairness and it is my view that we should try to be more holistic in our decision making in terms of who


err who gets to get admitted, okay so right now we are aware that in singapore there, there are these cases whereby half of the about ten per cent or five per cent of the student population are admitted into the school due to the


there is this uh poly there is this special admission uh opportunity for them to admit based on their talent so from primary to secondary school about five to ten percent of the cohort uh they go through interview they talk they go through are due to their special talent be it CCA


then when from secondary school to tertiary be it JC or poly they have this err, poly foundation course, EAE early admission exercise and even if they want to go to JC there's a joint admission exercise whereby they go through interview they share about


what they have done achieve so far in their secondary school life be it leadership community service work experience, and CCA talents and interests so all these uh, are also based on err the results so as long as they get at least a twenty five grade


for L one R five or L one R four as long as they achieve the minimum mark for results and they have this extra, err talents or ability or service to ~soc err community so far then they are automatically admitted in


so I think what from this I think that err it's not just based on results we can have a mix perhaps half is based on, err this holistic aspect and the other half is still based on results so if you want to go the normal route of err without the interview just purely based on results we still have that so a blend a good blend a good mix a balance of these two decision making process will be fair and will ensure equality in our society so over to you


okay so let me just uh, target what you just said, okay you mentioned that err if we talk about, err , allowing such interviews to be done then even more so the less privileged one will be disadvantaged because the the more privileged students


uh like Brandon the name that you raised just now would be able to, have a lot of support, he will have even more err extra as err enrichment, be it uh work experience or even uh community service volunteer at their father's company or something like that


to improve his err, experiences so, but if we don't even have, such opportunities for these weaker students to have subjective err considerations factors for admissions, then they won't they won't even have anything they're only depending on the results so the purpose of having subjective and not academic factors for admissions really to level the playing field and like you said although it would not level the playing field


err because the like more privilege one would have another advantage again, but if you don't even have that then, the weaker students the less privileged one will have nothing, they don't even have any opportunity to just only have to study a lot


so perhaps I think in conclusion we are not very sure how we can deal with this but we have, evaluated the situation and perhaps we need to see err and decide how we can really provide more support for the less privileged perhaps this kind of interviews admissions


err should only be for the less privileged students then we will eliminate that concern of yours, that the more privileged one will have another advantage again so , I think or at least the percentage if let's say they are only admitting ten then five should be reserved you know like the reserved seats on a train


for the weaker students for the less privileged one then we can address this, err societal issue of inequality as a whole altogether, ya, so I think that's our conclusion, for the first debate topic cause whether schools should consider to a certain extent we should still consider and have a good blend


, part two err debate topic two, okay so right now our second topic is on the chinese dialects err should chinese dialects be offered as a mother tongue language err in my opinion I believe that it should be offered as a mother tongue language rather than just using mandarin chinese


err as a mother tongue language because chinese itself, it's a race it's not a language but they call it chinese language in singapore and is unique to only singapore because we just want to focus on mandarin, okay and this the purpose of this the the government started want is to ensure that the chinese all speak err same language and therefore we're unified


based on the language used the, we have, okay and if we think about the other err languages let's say malay, there is no such thing as a malay dialect, (ppc), I mean perhaps in different regions, sorry, in different regions


they may have different, slangs err created different err, language lingua franca but for, from for indians for the indians they have tamil they have urdu they have err


different language as well so that is like the different dialects so how is it that the indians can have different, they can choose to study urdu or they can choose to study tamil or even the other different types of languages but for chinese we can't, how is that fair for the chinese and how is it that fair for the indians that they're forced they're able to choose but yet the chinese can't


so how are the are the indians unified, just based on the language no right because they get to choose different language err different dialects to to to to study but in china uh in singapore the chinese have to study mandarin


okay and that's considered the chinese language so it's very unfair and therefore right now I believe that we should offer the different dialects , as a subject err secondly this dialect to identify their identity and roots okay something that err has been debated in singapore that singaporean chinese they don't really


identify themselves as much as previously before the world war two period, okay so err we have cantonese hokkien teochew, but yet instead of speaking these three dialects we have to study


err chinese language which is, therefore why err our identity, is err diminishing, and more and more err of the, teenagers these days, okay they do not know how to speak this dialect I myself I do not know how to speak my dialect and I end up speaking another dialect because I'm supposed to be


err hakka, but I'm speaking I can speak hokkien dialect rather than my own hakka language because generally in singapore many people get know how to speak predominantly hokkien you go to the hawker centre food court that's what that's the language that the hawkers are using


err, very rare you get to hear cantonese and even rarer teochew, and hakka, so if we do not teach these in schools and parents themselves like if I get older and I do have children I will be I won't be able to teach my children the dialect how to speak it so the whole dialect


identity everything will disappear if we do not teach it in school so I'm of the view that we should offer it as a mother tongue language


okay so I would like to talk about what you said you mentioned that err, for practical reasons we are studying the chinese the mandarin language as chinese language and instead of the dialects right and this is because uh for practicality


would they use their hokkien language for work in future for business no and I think it is because how err singapore we are very, uh connected to china and therefore the language that's used is mandarin, how about let's say err hong-kong do they speak


chinese no they predominantly would speak uh cantonese how about in taiwan, they speak mandarin as well but, err if you wanna, communicate with some of the, err other folks who are older probably hokkien


so, how are we assuming that mandarin is the language that would be predominantly used because of china's uh position in the market, economy right now are we denying, taiwan and even err let's say


taiwan in terms of hokkien used and let's say uh hong-kong in terms of cantonese used like, and err my I would like, to challenge you to think about this should we teach the language based on this kind of practical reasons or is the identity fostering that uh


unity based on your dialect group, okay and being able to know which region you originated from which province you came from like your family came from, err, is more important because singaporeans we all of us we are all err chinese especially we're all immigrants aren't we we don't


we don't we aren't the original, you know natives in singapore the malays are, and we our parents uh sailed to singapore and migrated to singapore and that's how we ended up here and then, and the beginning they know where where err which regions uh which provinces they came from what are the dialect groups err although they're divided by the dialect groups there still known holistically


err there's still unified in terms of the race but right now, as we , as we progress as a nation we are forgetting who we really are, or are you saying that we don't have to remember who we are just cause just remember that we're singaporeans that's good enough no need to know our dialect group


okay let me just clarify a few things that you mentioned for example you mentioned that on the iphone the language that you have, err is mandarin there's no dialect, ya, actually I believe if I'm not wrong that even the chinese dialects when you the written word is the same is just that


err for the same word it just sounds different, but I think it would it would affect it when it comes to siri, ya but I think it will affect when you do the siri function, you can't be using the dialect I don't I'm not sure I've never tried whether they are able to recognize their dialect


okay so while you said that for practicality you know, err as globalized uh global citizens right now with globalization it's inevitable that we will lose some gain some and right now what we're gaining is just, err, generically err generally everybody is speaking just <mandarin>普通话:pu tong hua</mandarin> mandarin chinese and just like how we are all speaking english


err whether its british english or american english we are still unsure but there are still some uh a lot of similarities between these two, and therefore the other languages too you don't have as much importance let's say in korea, you have to learn english as well and perhaps they will go and learn err <mandarin>普通话:pu tong hua</mandarin> mandarin chinese because of it's


err, is err status in our globalised world today that with economy with err, all the, businesses we have to use the language that is widely used and that is in china for chinese it will be the mandarin language but you see even in hong-kong like


because they are going to be taken over by china, and and initially they were all speaking predominantly cantonese if you turn on their channels their drama the shows is always in cantonese but they're becoming, err more open to using china mandarin chinese and they are also learning as a subject because of how they're gonna be part of china but that's another issue the tension whatsoever between the two nations but


for singapore we don't have that because we are more focus on our multi racial, identity and using english as the language, to, to unify us so for so back to my point about , unifying us based on our provinces our who who we really are our roots dialects


err if, we can what I'm proposing right now is perhaps to conclude okay both of us have our the merits to our arguments to conclude I believe perhaps we need to reach, err, an understanding that perhaps, in the and the middle ground that


in schools perhaps we should still teach dialect languages, but, not to the extent of testing, err we can have it as an enrichment like a five day workshop just so you know the basics of your dialect groups err the language that you use either or even appreciating err for appreciation


of the other dialect groups you get to learn how their language is used the very basic, err, words so that they have an understanding of oh this is our dialects oh that is other people's dialects so to say you learn the different language the words the the sounds that they make, but it is not


err subject per se, so they can teach these dialect languages in the mother tongue mandarin chinese lessons just that it's like an enrichment, then we can have the best of both worlds


so, so I believe I believe we should still have, ya we should still have that kind of enrichment, err, let's say you just a workshop at the very least it would benefit us and the students and their racial their I mean their regional their provinces they know who they are you see it's a language that will not disappear out of nowhere just because we no longer use it or teach in school


part three, debate topic three, okay so right now we are going to discuss whether learning is best


err, executed outside the classroom, okay in schools today we are always uh stuck in the classrooms we are just seated at our tables occasionally we'll have group discussions where we still move around but it's still in the classroom, and it is very mundane it's very boring and I remember when I was a student I was very bored


uh I didn't like having to always gain uh the knowledge from the textbooks and I sometimes question, err whether that's the best form of learning because the best form of learning in my opinion is one that caters to the different needs of the students some of them are more kinesthetic visual learners they need to be exposed to the elements in the environment outside


that's how they can learn best they like to apply it, err so application, uh you can't do that in a classroom you have to go outside so let's say if it's a english language lesson, just speaking in the classroom will it be, impactful


I do not think so I think that we need to go outside if you want to learn uh speech, as a topic as a text type then you need to go out there and speak to people be it err you can go to anywhere you can go to the mall speak to someone order food that's also like, practical skills right you need to apply your speaking skills somewhere


okay or let's say you come up with a proposal you write it and then you have to talk about it to people to convince them persuade them, outside the classroom to share your opinion someone who is not just a teacher or classmate someone the perhaps the general public


or even if you just say you are speaking to youths to share about your course for the environment like, as if you are Greta-Thunberg , then you need to go out there and speak to the people you don't just speak to your classmates and it will not be truly, the real life experience truly applicable unless you go outside


speak to people outside do it outside, ya and let's say science let me just give you a last example in science you learnt experiments but what is it for, , how do you apply it in the real world when you go outside in future as adult if let's say you're not even a scientist how would that scientific knowledge help you


is it the identification of the plants, the flora and fauna outside so you need to go outside and really see, how is it really applicable and not just stay in classrooms because the textbooks they don't give you every knowledge that you need to know you need to go outside experience it so in my point of view learning is still best done outside the classroom rather than being stuck in the


the you are being restricted in the four walls


okay I would like to challenge your, your idea that you still need to stay in the classroom to develop the fundamentals the, the fundamentals of the theories the topics the chapter, the particular area of focus that you're studying about


so for example let's say if you are studying about, , err history or okay let's say we talk about science you need to learn about cells so you need to see or plants you need to learn about it first in a textbook before you go out there and see them so that was your point of view that they need to have the fundamentals but I beg to differ you know because


we need to revolutionize err education as a whole because right now we have always been following the conventional route, for conventional way of err traditional way of learning whereby we think okay you study first, then you'll do some questions then you'll get some feedback from teachers then you do your corrections then you oh that's how you fully go one full circle one full loop to fully comprehend the subject topic


however, err what I'm saying is first we need to change the way we teach the way the way we learn the way people learn the way students learn we need to have a, more dynamic we need to revolutionize education the best way for learning


okay whether it's outside or classroom inside classroom actually is where the students ask questions so therefore they came up with this theory err john lewis err inquiry based learning whereby he believes that when the students are asking questions first, then they find a solution


then they understand the topic, asking more questions again and find a solution then they discover, the the topic the the subject, topic, that is true learning whereby they they want to have that curiosity first you need to spark their curiosity first that they want to learn this topic so to spark their curiosity they will ask question you have to be genuinely


interested in that topic first then you go through that process of oh this how you learn more so you scaffold then you give them a little bit more detail give them and they ask more questions then you give them a bit more detail and a slowly build up that knowledge that is the essence of learning is not okay today you come to school


when you're you're in school you come to class the teacher tells you okay today you're going to learn this topic, and then you you are just following the curriculum you'll just following the syllabus you're not really wanting to learn something it's not because that you want to learn it is because you have to learn it for the assessment and that is the education system that we have in singapore if you compare to the other countries let's say err sweden or is it switzerland


err they are recognized as the top, the best when it comes to education they go out a lot there's not even homework, they go out a lot they go out to the gardens they go out outside school to learn very frequently about I believe uh many times a week but in our schools uh in singapore what we do is we only go out for field trips only perhaps once a term or once a semester and now with COVID nineteen you know that's not even possible anymore


the the only way is you stay in the classroom and watch something virtual on the screen so there is no interactiveness, or engagement of true learning because you are just stuck in the confines of the classroom so as I mentioned just now if you compare it to other countries like say sweden or switzerland they are top


they're the best err, nation when it comes to education system because they get to have that experiential learning they go out and experience the world then they apply it and then they see the true value of the learning of that topic, versus singapore we are just following the curriculum we're trying to scramble to finish it even


okay and err it's so boring, these students are not, curious they're just forced to, swallow digest regurgitate the same topic over and over again in the exam papers you just do ten years series that's like that, formula of learning is not because they truly love it so therefore the joy of learning is not err being developed not being encouraged and that's why I'm going back to the question is learning best done outside the classroom in my point of view you should be outside the classroom so that you can cultivate foster the joy of learning


and make it more enriching for the students and the best way would be done outside the classroom


schools should consider subjective and


oh part one debate oh right part one debate topic one


okay so for me I am opposing to that, I take the point of view that schools should not consider subjective or uh non academic factors for admission so I I think one of the main points which uh really


stands out is that standard you see if we do if we have subjective you know subjects going around right like say like personality tests you know public speaking and all that right these can actually lead to biasness, okay and err that's that's where it comes upon you know standardized testing whereby it's so important for standardized testing to happen so I I understand that the proposition mentioned uh meritocracy


so well meritocracy is something which requires like a fair and objective comparison especially if it's talking about students you know this are the candidates to err which which which you know in the, err in in in schools can be consider for admission right err these are things which err err these are things which should be considered so like for example using things subjective stuff such as personality right will make it possible


for schools like perhaps you went universities right to be influenced by powerful donors and in the past we have seen this to be pretty true right so because you see, in the admissions board right a lot of discretion is actually given, to to these people okay so when it comes to err judging on subjective non academic factors err this could actually lead to biasness and it could lead to


you know the the those donors being more advantages you know ya for for for for their kids when they when you were talking about err school admissions, now the thing is this ah what what I feel is that , the merit in meritocracy can be measured by many means alright because you know when when we admit students uh we we are actually talking about err admitting them based on merits right


so you know historically you know true academic performance we have seen like they are actually other kinds of merit right but the point about merit is actually err something which is unsubjective okay so let's say for example right just just to make a point if we say that


err someone maybe scores err you know very well in terms of err a certain subject okay let's say for for sciences okay, so when we use this holistic definition of merit today it remains uh very unsubjective because let's say for example a student with a certain aptitude right did let's say they they they are good in sports and music okay


they they are determined by comparing a certain type of rubik's so when we tried to broaden this definition of merit right include more factors alright we we should not we should not although this is something which is a good right but we should not overdo it because you see like for example right


let's say a person with err err err non a very subjective kind of err a a very subjective kind of, err I would say a characteristic right maybe such as tenacity and perseverance right and because this person maybe he have gone through some form of adversity


okay and then err he and and we know right adversity does build strong character okay but the thing is how does this strong characteristic, from you built from adversity show show us that you are competent in any skill which you might qualify which which qualifies you for the next level of education like perhaps university right so so the thing is like you know if we were to


take into account some form of err you know how should I put this some form of adverse some form of , characteristic which this person has right if we were to account for that there is no form of standardized testing which can accurately measure so is really based on whoever who's the admissions board whoever who's admitting this person is this if this person relates to the student right to to the to the potential err candidate


then then perhaps he might score him higher but if that someone who doesn't right then he might not score even higher okay so so in a way we can interview it we can say that , we should you know actually based such things on a very err rigorous


err kind of a testing which is standardized testing okay and as you can see know this in in singapore this has been uh done for many years and I believe because of that it's it's been proven to to work right because err you know I I believe that there's been studies which has uh gone through I mean they've gone through a lot of rigorous studies to


actually to actually err, show that this testing is successful right so so at the end of the day you know we must ask ourselves if we were to admit this person into the next level of education right err what's the purpose of doing that right and we all know that this the purpose of doing that is actually to err to


how should I put it to err ensure that that he is ready for the next level of skills which perhaps university might teach him correct and and this, and this is to ensure that you know let's say our people in singapore right possess the necessary skills to to take on more complex jobs right and err ya so therefore if we were to continue or or were we to use subjective err subjects then the thing is we are not


sure whether we can accurately measure whether this person is uh ready for this next level uh of education which he's trying to enter yup over to you


right, I do hear uh, of you mentioning about err you know having fairness alright having a a level playing field, okay and the thing about it is if you were to include these subjects err the point which I stated earlier are really questions whether or not there will be a level playing field alright because again the people who are judging err


let's say based on these interviews and all that they are judging err also based they are they are human and they they there will they weren't there isn't like a standard , kind of uh matrix right or rather very standardized uh kind of a way which is uh you know we we we know that it's fair and and unsubjective to to uh to personal bias


alright so of course yeah there are that are rubrics out there right like even like for example oral exams there are rubrics out there right but again err at the end of the day err we I mean we we have heard right you know we always tell err primary school students that !hey! you know you must always greet your, err your examiner before you you actually start your oral exam this give them like better impression of of you and things like that so again why do people say better impression because they they understand the impression does matter and my point to my my my my point to proposition is that because


impression does matter right impression does count for some form of points, okay and when there is talk of a level playing field okay we and and if we were to include, you know such subjective components put into the test criteria


then like what you mentioned and what you're worried about okay is that the rich will have an advantage and I'm saying now that if we were to have such subjective components the rich will have an advantage okay now just now you actually mentioned about a poor and a rich


uh student okay and if I were to , take this into further detail okay let's let's take it to the extreme okay where the two enter society okay so that we can just clearly see what these different what this difference entails alright so picture this alright we have Ali


coming from a poor family struggling to make ends meet okay his family have perhaps maybe a more savings mindset whereby they try their best to save as much as they can and to earn from whatever means necessary okay and perhaps Ali you know [err] spends his june holidays working to help out with the family income


now on the other hand we err on the hand on the on the side of the coin we have brandon right from coming from a wealthy family they never have to worry about any, thing money related right any money related issues, now this young scion right instead spends his june holidays attending presentation workshops sports camps you know perhaps maybe volunteering at his


err father's err err, companies uh charitable event right uh for VIA points and even maybe having violin lessons alright the musical aspect like you mentioned okay now he has all these because right his parents has an investment mindset whereby they're spending all this money to invest in his future


now for these two fine gentlemen here right if they are placed in front of a judging panel fighting for a place in perhaps the top err the the the top school, right now the thing is how would the impression of these err judging panel


err be on each and everyone of them okay so on one hand we have Ali okay he's been through the hard knocks of life he's very street smart okay he has a fortitude and resilience of a young adult who has gone through the hard knock in life right where as brendan on the other hand he's eloquent


he has proper social etiquette he has immense knowledge uh you know gathered from listening from the conversations of his well learned parents and perhaps social circle as well, okay now the thing is this if you ask yourself now who will turn out the winner of that round of judgment okay now we see the thing is this we all know that unfortunately for Ali okay brendan will win that's because brendan's overall outlook and skills right acquired during err due to his privileged background outshines


Ali at that moment in time okay because again like if mention about interviews right interview is something which happens at that moment in time, okay now #Ali#'s skills of fortitude and resilience right unfortunately can only show up over time it is something which is experiential alright Ali might be very good may be very good worker very good student but no for him to he needs to first be admitted before people can experience that aspect of him


alright so if people only have the chance to to see him during the interview and not journey with him, alright and and if that is the only thing which is err err something which you know is err use to judge them based on whether or not they are err eligible to enter the next level education


then I will say that because of such subjective subjects and factors taking to play right then unfortunately for Ali, this will be a disadvantage for him so therefore like I mentioned I I don't err I I don't err want to consider subjective and non academic factors for admission


yup any comments


(mmhmm)


K time is just nice


part two debate topic two


okay now on my end err I would like to address that you mentioned err the reason why err the err education system in singapore includes the mother tongue language, alright and and I believe that's a that's a pretty fair point okay so I find that you know language is used you know as a communication to uh either to be spoken or to be written


now for it to be offered as a mother tongue language or into more specific for the chinese dialect to be offered as a mother tongue language, err I believe we need to work with the end purpose in mind so the education system we have rights meant to prepare us for working lives and you know to to use the skills we acquire to contribute back to society so in sense for


a chinese dialect to be offered as a mother tongue language it means to say that the students right will have to study the subjects study the the language right the dialect have it tested and have it graded


this means that there is an incentive for these students uh to seriously study and, score alright for the chinese dialect mother tongue language because it is gonna be useful and practical to be used and applied in their future lives at work and in society


now having made that statement I would like you know all of us to think about this how true is that, that this err chinese dialect will be useful err in the future so I personally don't think so as such I do not agree that err the dialect should be offered as mother tongue language err what do you think


okay I I believe err you you made two points err and err very very fair and well taken so I think one of the first point is about you know in terms of err err the the usage you know globally


alright err in terms of whether or not we are leaving any any groups out you know a by by by taking away the the dialects right in terms of communicating with them uh on a global level international level, err I think and your second point is more about the heritage


of err of each person's uh dialect where were they originally come from and where the original uh language originated from so uh let me address these two points alright uh starting off with the point about about you know about


including the international scene okay so perhaps err to make my point let's look at some trends right and this can be a pretty fun practical exercise for all of us here, alright so maybe if you were to use any search engine whether is it yahoo or google alright let's just search the phrase okay somewhere along the lines of decline dialect usage or anything along those lines lah okay that that that dialect or the the chinese dialect is is in decline okay


now what alright uh so if you open another search on another window okay and you were to and search for the opposite right the increase in use of dialects, okay so if you have these two windows out right just for the fun of it alright and then what what's going to happen is you you will see a drastic difference okay so what you will find is that there are so many more recent articles right showing the slow


extinction of the chinese dialect okay now maybe perhaps let's zoom into to one of the articles uh in twenty nineteen okay written by the uh McGill international review alright it's titled the slow death of china's dialects, alright so the thing is this


if you were to look at the article right it will it tells you that in twenty seventeen some some statistics are shown seventy three percent of the chinese population you know reported speaking mandarin chinese that is like the what they say the <mandarin>普通话:pu tong hua</mandarin> lah right up from fifty percent in from the two thousands


right and and because you know this this has been gaining , err status as the official language in china since nineteen zero nine, so with this right you can also see that the the this and many other articles right it shows you that the dialects right are actually dying out okay and and society doesn't really see a practical use of it alright not only in china but but uh


all all all over the world where where where there's a chinese dialect dialect uh involved right which is like you at my mentioned taiwan or hong-kong whatsoever okay, so if if we I mean just to quote a little bit from the article, alright there's a paragraph which says that today


most chinese parents are more keen to speak mandarin or english with their children as compared to chinese dialects okay because you do not want to burden their children with learning dialects as it is of no economic value okay so this is something which


which is which is very very err prominent alright it it it that that shows that see actually this language is really dying out, okay and back my point about err us using language as a communication tool, okay now if you were to look at your iphone in front of you or you could any of your phone in front of you and you will check the language options on your computer on from computer programs on your phone keyboard you hardly ever see any catered to a chinese dialect


okay now to add on right okay add on to this the oxford dictionary okay the the definition of mother tongue, okay in the oxford dictionary if you were to err search for it alright in fact let me let me just do a search for it now alright I I think the oxford the the definition of mother tongue is the language which a person has grown up speaking from early childhood now


if you look at if you based on these definitions it is a joke by itself right if you were to talk about the mother tongue language, because how often do you know our children in singapore right growing up speaking the dialects right even if we know of a few right the trend is on a decline


so as time goes by right society evolves language evolves and naturally how people would communicate err how how people communicate they will change right so therefore you must ask ourselves if the language is to be used as tool of communication right then how practical is it to have dialects


right dialects as, as as as as a form of language to to be used okay and then what is the likelihood of us using in the future and even encountering it even on an international level again like like say my point is more of uh practicality


okay now to address your second point okay about heritage okay about our roots about heritage now you see cultural heritage right it's not only trapped in in an oral form okay heritage stems more from just language


okay doesn't mean to say that oh okay if if we were to if we were to err speak our our dialect we are, fully embracing our heritage I it's not language is not the only thing right there their practices and things like that okay so okay you know singapore doesn't warrant itself in learning of dialects especially with the passing of older generations lah like what you mentioned


okay so dialect such as like maybe like teochew correct, you know and maybe like cantonese, uh they they are they are just forming part of of the entire cultural heritage so in a sense I believe right that perhaps maybe a a compromise should be made in terms of of of these dialects okay


because uh that, it doesn't mean to say that if we don't allow these students to to have their dialect the chinese dialects their mother tongue then we don't really reflect their heritage, okay instead right the mother tongue right should be recognised as a necessity in the globalised world


okay and because the globalize world is using more common languages like uh chinese or what you call <mandarin>普通话:pu tong hua</mandarin> right and english right so for mother tongue the chinese should be should be used, right and and then perhaps the dialect or the or the you know other languages should be maybe used as a maybe a third language rather than it to be considered as a mother tongue yup so so that that that's that's my point on why err it


the chinese dialects shouldn't be used as a or shouldn't be considered as a mother tongue but in in terms in order to preserve like what you say the heritage and all that it should be uh use uh it should be considered as a third language rather than a mother tongue


ah but the thing about it is sentence structure also (mmhmm), now that's that's the thing you see siri right you are able to speak english alright you are able speak mandarin okay and but a siri is also a tool which recognises err the


err the sentence structure such that it can recognize what commands you are trying to tell it and then translate it into actions on your phone so one aspect you realize that the when they programmed siri, they programmed the most common language and err in by saying the most common language I mean by english and even if you speak mandarin into it


err I believe that err they program it in such a way that it is, more suited to <mandarin>普通话:pu tong hua</mandarin> err which is the the common mandarin which we all know of and if at there were anybody who were to use a dialect alright which you know it I says siri's based on speech right uh so yes the the chinese characters are the same but if you if you were to talk about speech they might not recognise it


right they might not recognize it because err of the different err of the variations in in the in the chinese dialect and that might be perhaps too many or maybe too insignificant because err not many people are using it for for actually apple you know err for the matter to the program it in


to uh to to to make it count lah ya


right can we forgo the twenty five seconds I think we are done , no we can't okay we got to keep talking about it ah oh that's not even enough, ya (mmhmm)


part three debate topic three


right I am of the position, that err learning err should not be outside the classroom okay and to start off err let's look at err what we are experiencing today right err you know we let's let's let's put aside the the point err regardless whether is it the best way or not let let's just look


in terms of uh what you know globally what we are experiencing today in terms of how teaching is being done, alright even we can talk about you know from err the developed countries all the way to non developing to do those developing countries right so developed in developed countries there are schools alright where where err you know students err have to go to the classroom


okay and then in developing countries we have err you know some organisations whatsoever they are trying to build schools alright so that students can go there and learn, right and and the way they are building schools and in schools there are classrooms so you know it begs the question on if


learning is best outside the classroom then why even bother building schools because if if it's best outside classroom than no schools are needed what correct you can just uh uh have a gathering and you can you can learn right there is no need for have a school right


so the concept of having a school right I believe dates back all the way err you know to to err before christ right even when err socrates was err was was was around with aristotle alright and and in a sense


my point to why there must be a classroom, err err err for learning alright, is that you first need to start with the foundations okay and even in if we talk about today's context right we don't we don't have any format of teaching whereby we say okay let's have a gathering and then let's go to the classroom and learn


no it's usually the other way round alright you all assemble the classroom perhaps you might be brief in the classroom about the learning outcomes where may maybe you learn about some basics and then, you are brought outside okay so to really focus my point that learning is not best outside the classroom err let's talk about in terms of the stages of learning


alright so in stages of learning it can be broken up into three parts alright the first one is what we call discovery alright knowing you have to know what you've did not know, right and there and this is something which err can take place in a classroom okay then the second the second the second step of it is a is after discovery is about is about know knowing the fact


right and and that's whereby you know err in a classroom setting people are able to sit down, listen okay to to to someone who is teaching learn the basics and foundation of the, facts, or whatsoever okay and then err after that err they can move on to the third stage where it's you know further discovery and also err questioning


right so this this in a sense when they have a classroom around it creates a very conducive environment for people to to to have such a session whereby there's, a teacher someone teaching


and the students listening and err and a and a feedback loop whereby the students will in turn question what's going on now my my point which I'm trying to make here is this process this three steps process is very important to build the foundation of learning


right and this can only happen in the classroom before they go out there to err to to discover new things to apply you know err to for practical aspects of of of their life or whatsoever right now to to to make a further point right


based on what the proposition has mentioned about how you know things uh you know whatever you're learning needs to be practical need to go out there to see the fauna and flora so and so forth well that is very true however you realize that before that even happens just like how before any school excursion happens right they will


first be in the classroom to learn about what they need to look out for when they go out there so in other words alright, even in schools now when projects are being done, err you know for them to have practical applications of


whatever which uh uh they they need they need to learn by subject they need they need to to to learn right they will first start off with learning in the classroom before going out there to do their projects before going out of the classroom to do their projects which is which is the point which I'm trying to make that they first uh learning in the classroom is best


alright to first build your foundation and that's why learning is still best in the classroom and not outside the classroom, yup


alright now the point which the proposition has made about uh learning outside the classroom whereby they go to explore and also about the example which the proposition gave in terms of err heading out you know like those like in sweden they they head out a lot to to err to learn about stuff


right but my but I will challenge that because at the end of the day where do they all end up so regardless whether or not they head out you know they they they go out first alright I mean if you were to challenge the conventional way of learning


if they were to head out first you know to explore the world and to learn about their environment like things like geography or or, err like sciences they still end up going back to the classroom okay and the and the question now is in terms of the definition of learning alright


where does the learning actually happen, okay so I I believe that learning happens in varying degrees right on excursion and school trips there can be learning happening alright in classrooms there can be learning happening alright and the question now is


how much alright learning is actually happening when the students out there alright is the I believe that the classroom is still the best setting for students to learn because at the end of a long field trip


when they all head out when they all head back right from from maybe visiting let's say in singapore's case maybe Bukit-Timah nature reserve, right the the teacher will still have to sum up what has err what what they've gone through maybe err go through the worksheets which were given to them for them to you know do some sketches or to to fill in some some work right it they're they're still needs to be


a place and a setting , to consolidate err whatever which they've discovered, when they were out on the field trip, so then that's whereby the classroom you know err comes into play whereby people have people err


get together alright in the conducive environment alright, and they learn okay now I also hear mentioned about err you know the COVID nineteen situation and limiting all this from happening okay and and you know this is actually a very


good point brought out by the proposition because in such times of COVID nineteen you realise that err heading out of the classroom is something dangerous right err you know to prevent the spread of pandemic so therefore even going to school is dangerous and therefore


we have something called virtual classrooms, and that's like something whereby we we you know we teachers teach over the web right and then guess what during this time when when we've due to COVID nineteen you know uh students forgo the possibility of heading out for excursions


what do teachers do instead they search online for resources maybe youtube where they actually find, err you know err err video content err of


places like places of nature or maybe science you know in a sense that they do like virtual tours out there for students to to even err to experience it so in a sense right at the end of the day err, yes it is important to go out to experience the practicality err err you know of the real world


okay but the classroom setting you know is still a more conducive way for students to learn alright and it whatever which the students need to to go out there alright to to to do


it can be done in the classroom already so if they were in the physical classroom the teacher can show them videos alright err if they are in a virtual classroom err I mean videos can be streamed err via via screen sharing as well so in a sense err what what I meant to say was that err all in all


there still needs to be a proper setting for learning to occur alright and and you know err needless to say err the maturity level of this these students, err are important as well because err to some


to I think to some degree when we looking at the uh the the younger generation such as primary school kids when they head out you know it's more of a fun trip, you know and and teachers spend most of the time disciplining them rather than actually teaching anything of err actual value right and perhaps


maybe err for the education system in singapore just to show that there's some holistic element to it , the the bringing of students out into in into the err out of the classroom you know to have to have a an excursion serves more of a purpose of err you know fulfilling the KPIs


as compared to uh really actually teaching students something, I mean I I feel I personally feel that some teachers don't even believe that that any learning is that you know learning can actually occur err when they are out of the classroom err on on a on the school trip is just to bring them there to to show them what's there to clock their KPIs and then it's done


right err whether or not the student actually learn maybe they justify it by, uh having a worksheet right to be submitted and I can tell you that from personal experience , I would err you know we were given the answers to the worksheets so that at the end of the day the teacher has something to show that you know err that that they have been out there they have value added to their child's learning they have err they the students have learned something out of the classroom right but


honestly you know you you if you if you see what was happening err it was actually just students go out there have fun teachers trying to manage their students and then the students err just copying err the the answers out of err the answer the the answer sheet or given the answers by


teacher during the school trip so then it backs the question whether or not was there actually any learning alright or was it just a fun trip okay yes they might be learning a little bit of it right, but, through learning or where true knowledge transfer happens right whether or not err that really happened outside the classroom


or inside the classroom so to sum up on my point what I want to say is that uh, today when we look at err things globally happening alright in terms of how from the non dip from the less developed countries all the way to developed countries we see people err I mean we we see governments


still building schools alright and within the schools they are still classrooms and they're setting up virtual classrooms now and that's because they still see the value which uh which classrooms contribute to to learning


yup and for that I say that err I disagree that learning is best done outside the classroom thank you


part one debate topic one


proposition you want to start first


, uh thank Sonji so your


I I'll try to address the each of the points that you have made right uh so I believe the first one that you made was about, uh the commuting time being cut down by six minutes now and then you've you've evidenced this by saying that there are people who want to go to work or students but you have to think about exactly where this line is cutting across and who exactly this line is serving


so I would argue right that basically it's a sterile MRT stretch that would serve zero uh residents so in effect right, it's not going to be utilised very much at all so you can you can you can sell it off by saying that yes it's gonna it's gonna reduce


commuting time it's gonna be cheaper by fifteen percent uh but who exactly is gonna benefit from this uh I would argue that very few to people at all, uh would benefit from this uh in in regards with the transport fares being reduced by fifteen percent first of all again who exactly is this going to serve and the second issue that is as you yourself have mentioned the


the annual fees for transportation are going to increase, so or or they have continually increased historically, so this fifteen percent uh savings it's just going to be a transient savings for the short term just to make the plan of building through the uh uh the nature reserve look good uh so I I think it's a negligible thing now


you also mentioned that it would lower construction costs by two billion dollars, uh and that these two billion dollars can be used for, other uh other, so purposes now this has to be weighed right in the context of the in in in the context of what we stand to lose and what we stand to lose right is our nature reserve you have to keep in mind that this is


uh the nature reserve is exceedingly rare it is the only uh virgin rainforest primary rainforest in singapore first of all singapore is a tiny dot in the world and, even for us to have a patch of virgin rainforest is like finding a a diamond you know uh and we have to do everything that we can to preserve it


so two billion dollars in the face of uh literally a a diamond worth of ecosystem right is nothing in fact I would go so far as to say that the nature reserve's value uh for what it truly is is way more than two billion


uh now you also mentioned the point about lowering energy consumption now I have to ask you right uh why why would someone why is lowering energy consumption important


I I'm not I'm I'm legitimately asking you no no no you


no no not you address that first cause I'm not done with my opposition cause I got I still need to address the other further points that you have raised, yup


okay uh thanks thanks for that Sonji uh now I I'm glad that you raised those two points because I have uh I wanted I wanted to use those two points to highlight highlight what I was gonna say


so what the reason is first of all you you mentioned that uh energy consumption is important uh lowering energy consumption is important because you want to uh it it's to save the environment but that completely doesn't make sense because


yep yep yep yep, so I'm going to address that as well systematically so in in , , eventually a second issue right, it doesn't make sense because in order to you want you want to lower energy consumption for the benefit of the environment


but then at the same time you are putting the environment at risk by tangling under the nature reserve because if you impact the nature reserve right the nature reserve is our only source of of of greenery that's gonna be our carbon sink, and then you want to put that at risk so the the you you have to you have to see that there is a contradiction in terms of what you want to do and what you are doing in terms of uh building the cross island line underneath the nature reserve


now with respect to the the profit sorry the uh the cost uh being channelled down to the people visibly the the uh the lowering of the energy consumption cost the way that I would respond to that is singapore


singapore's economy is partly uh driven by tourism and our nature reserve, actually sees quite a bit of it the pool of uh err virgin rainforest within the seat of a very uh what appears to be a technologically advanced city