okay so err topic two is about uh the question for topic two is uh should the advancement of artificial intelligence be a cause for concern, err and I am saying that yes err it is a cause of uh it is a cause for concern


so let me just begin by err giving you my first point , my first point is actually err based on a lot of movies that I've watched ah science fiction, movies that I've watched err for example right for example if you have watched this movie


err so so okay so there's two movies that come into mind actually there's three movies that come into mind if you have watched it before the first one that I've watched is ah eagle eye, err eagle eye was a, movie whereby they they actually err used err technology and AI err machine learning err they teach they they they basically let the AI learn err the way or you know how humans do their things and stuff like that


err to the point where the AI was able to replicate and do it better than err the actual humans can, and because of that right err the AI actually overtook the human err creators and the AI started controlling everything uh to the point where the AI even prevented err you know the humans from err from actually


err err shutting it down, okay so so, it is a cause for concern because err I feel that we are teaching machines to learn better than us we are making them smarter than us and


uh it is a very worrying trend that you know in the future when we actually do this to the machines that we are not able to actually stop them and they can outsmart us, and they can rule the world so ya,


yes correct yup yup correct


could it be possible that they can learn more than what they are supposed to learn


could could could there be a a possibility though that we, we want to see how how smart these these err you know AI technology can become so we we don't limit the possibility they they the possibilities for them to learn things new things are unlimited


right and we let it err run and we let it learn as much as it can err you know by observing what we do and by by uh by seeing how the world works and all that kinda stuff err


ya so, right


you can put like err what you call err ya I, like stock market so example like AIA okay let's say example I believe three years ago Facebook and like Tesla


ya


, right right


self aware


err ya I I feel that we should have such a such a thing because, you know we don't want the AI to uh learn something and then you know spiral out of control the other movie that I was ah that I was thinking about was uh stealth


this this movie where they actually have, err an unmanned err aerial vehicle err and err, pilotless aircraft err where they teach the aeroplane, how to err fly and how to err, go beyond go into the enemy territory err you know drop the bombs and stuff like that


err so so in the in the course of the movie the AI actually did some deep learning and machine learning uh you know and basically uh it disobeyed the orders of its creators uh it went into the enemy territory on its own and and you know and and all that so


, ya so so that that that is an example right of, us not err I mean like basically what what we do is we we we let the AI err you know be too free in ya decide on their own what what they wanna be and and all that


err but but the ironic thing was that at the end of that movie the AI actually became uh altruistic and decided to sacrifice itself, by colliding with a enemy helicopter and saving the life of uh the the guy on the ground so


I mean it's it's I just, ya ya correct so so , human features ya so , the the the their humanity in the in the machine which it it is is a is a very interesting point that they actually showed in a movie


because I I feel that the the I don't, know to what extent this applies in real life you know can this actually happen in real life or or or is it just you know hollywood making its its its movies science fiction movies like that but


to think that err AI, can actually function as a sentient being right err which has thoughts and and and you know it making decisions to sacrifice itself and that kind of stuff uh it's both


good and bad I guess because you can you can have a an army of err AI robots you know that can, that that that that can go to war and in case anything happens they can sacrifice themselves and you know we lose the robot we don't lose the human beings so ya so so


yup, I mean uh , , robots as tactic right right right right right right, ya ya I mean probably wars of the future will will be in you know my robot fight your robot and see who wins and if my robot wins I win the war and if your robot wins err you win the


war lah so in the end in the end nobody dies uh it's only our robots that die but our robots can be, can be rebuilt lah , but uh it's an interesting uh concept, you know but but I mean the thing is the the I think I think the whole point of this this err this debate is err err how the the the the creators of the AI err what is the intent again again it all boils down to what is the intention of


the creators you know what is the purpose of having this AI what do you want it to do err what is it that you you know what is the purpose of err creating it in the first place err what is uh what is the end goal and all that kind of stuff so, I I feel that there is a lot of err things that we can actually err put in place err in order to make sure that that that ethics are correct


yup, correct


ya well the thing is the the intention of the original creator may be good err but what if he passes it down, to people who you know who who take over him and and who err


who harnessed the technology for example Kalashnikov Kalashnikov has very good intentions creating the AK forty seven, err you know but uh the the now in the the, the the rifle is being used for so many armed conflicts around the world


to the point where everybody can recognize an AK forty seven when they see one , so uh I, I, I I feel that err it it all depends on err how you make sure that you ensure that err the technology err or


the AI that you use err remains err remains to be used in a good manner lah in a in a in a manner that err you know is is not, err how do I put it, uh in a manner that is err useful to the society and and not err destructive


you know so as long as as long as the intent and the ethics err put in place in these types of err applications right er as long as the the the the intent is good and as long as there are checks and balances to actually keep


it that way err no matter who you pass on, the the the AI technology to err then I feel that there's there there there is, no cause of concern lah but humans being humans everybody has you know their own vested interest err people can be swayed by money


people can be swayed by power people can be swayed by greed, uh you know and because of that err that is where the the cause of concern lies because you you never know you know what is on someone's mind when they take over a new technology for example err you know if if elon musk were to pass down Tesla to his err you know his his right hand man


err you know how ya ya how how well is he going to use err the the technology to to you know further improve the lives err for all you know he might he might charge you you know a billion dollars just to you know use the electricity to to to charge your


uh you know to charge your your your your your car right so err, ya correct and, ya I mean the way the the the that there has to be a very transparent way of


err being err allowing err these these these creators of AI or even technology to actually, err be checked lah you know there there has to be a way to check them to to to make sure that they're not using it for their own purposes they they're not using it for bad intentions they are not using it to make sure you know you you you you can't you


you just can't be to be very certain err what someone's true intentions are so that's the reason why you need to have some form of err you know checks and balances to just make sure that err they are they are not doing anything that they are not supposed


to do ya so so, if if we can actually figure out a way to make that err process err happen and and make their process work then it it will be good lah but uh most of the the examples that we see nowadays it seems that


err you know, companies largely monopolise err one big chunk of the industry err you know for example err elon musk has a has a whole huge chunk of, err space technology under him err there's nobody else to challenge him


err you know even other other other people like Virgin Galactic or or even err Amazon and all that they they are nowhere near to to to, where he is now in terms of accomplishing and stuff so basically they monopolise the industry and because of the fact that they are able to monopolise the industry err they can do whatever they want you see because nobody can can challenge them and say !hey! err you know this is not the way to do it right so


yup the dragon capsule ya ya


okay okay okay


, , that that that is that is one aspect of it err but another aspect is also uh what happens if the AI err is too smart


err case in point ya case in point is uh the Boeing seven three seven uh, the aircraft they actually build uh they actually build an AI or rather, the AI is a is a system lah they call it the MCAS uh the the the maneuvering collision avoidance system now basically what that AI does is err it detects if the plane is err stalling so it will push the nose of the plane


down and err automatically ya ya automatically ya without input from the pilot, ah well for the case of the air for the case of the boeing seven three seven err the pilot didn't even know that such technology existed so


ya correct ya ya, so so they they did not inform the pilots that such technology existed on their planes and the pilots for the life of them couldn't figure out why their plane was behaving the way it was uh and that was the cause of actually those those two crashes that happened lah you know so it it's a concern when number one you are not


made aware that there's such a thing in place and number two uh the the AI, thinks no ya I mean not err but the thing is the the plane was not in a stall you see the AI thinks that it was in a stall so


ya mechanism correct correct ya ya, correct so so they they err that there's still much more improvement room for improvement to be done in this, aspect whereby err you know, your AI can be smart but err not too smart where where it it thinks that it's err they know that something is happening but actually err it's making it worse it's making the situation worse by you know by ah


ah correct ya, ya but by the end of the day I think decisions like these I think it's it's best to be made by humans because err, ya


that's true, that's true but then there's going to be more loss of life lah before you can actually get uh a smart AI


ya ya ya interesting interesting point


okay, K err part three debate topic three okay okay


okay so err for the the part three err the topic is does modern technology satisfy our wants rather than our needs err and I am proposing that yes it satisfies our wants rather than our needs


so I'll I'll begin by giving you my first point my first point is basically , with technology uh you are actually able to go online and buy so many different things uh let's say for example now we have so many uh types of uh previously before before technology became very popular if you needed to buy something or if you needed to go shopping uh you needed to go


to a shop right to a place so you go over to err IKEA you go over to Courts or you go over somewhere to you know to, actually physically be there at a place and actually err look for the things that you that you that you want now with the advent of technology we can actually do everything


from the comfort of our own home uh and from the comfort of our computers so I feel that err because of this we have access to, err unlimited amount of things that we can get uh and more often than not right we will buy things that we don't need so it's like eh this one got sale ah


uh you know today there is a sale err there is a great singapore sale and stuff like that then we will you know tend to err browse around and then we will tend to you know, cast our eyes on something and and then ah we will we will we will purchase it and then


ya, I mean yet when the need becomes unnecessary then it becomes a want I think, because because


uh, uh err ya that's true that's true err I mean I for for for all intents and purpose right, what we need is basically just the basic things like the basic necessities in, life lah you know food water a roof over our heads and stuff like that


everything else err becomes a want because err you technically, don't don't need you know the the the, the new chair or the new cupboard or the the new shirt that you want to get and all that right because you know it it's uh it's you can live without it mah right so


I feel that I feel that in the the most basic necessities that you need in order to survive is food water air you breathe shelter you know stuff like that those are the things that you need, ya


what kind of japanese toy , err ya it depends on how it satisfies my needs and it depends on what is it that I using it for


so I I think that, right ya I'm referring to that as well, ah the the the the the thing is , you know that could be that could be a money making opportunity right I mean people collect Gundams right when when when they collect Gundams and


they decide okay err you know I don't really I don't need it anymore err let's sell it for a profit and I'm going to make some money for myself and they sell it online and stuff and and they make money lah so if if you don't need it


err I I think you you can afford to part with it so so things that you can afford to part with, err I I feel that the those are the things that are that are wants


ya that's that's I mean that's err that's that's true but but but in in I mean the definition how we define what is a want and what is a need is very important lah, so so if I if I want something


for most people I think it's it's a it's a it's a want lah unless unless I I wouldn't know under what circumstances would you need a japanese, toy


err ya, or even even so why why would you like need it like like I I think I think the the the how to say the uh the level of the level of err how much you need it is also very important


because if you don't need it that much then it's not really a need, right so if you if you if you don't need something then you can afford to not have it and you don't have it lah, so so okay let let let's let's put uh let's let's let's use this as an example somebody who is rich and somebody who who is not as rich right so somebody who's rich is able to actually buy err everything that they that they that they that they actually want


ya, but somebody who is not rich will only buy everything that they need, right I I think that, uh the middle class has a mix of wants and needs lah but I think they will prioritise


they it could be a want or you know the want could could change to become a need and you know so, correct so let's say for example, I not hungry now


but I want to eat right so that's a want right but, five six hours later, uh when I get hungry then it's not that I want to eat is I need to eat because if I don't eat then I will, I will start uh to you know uh


, ya so so so the point is the point is at some point, at at at some point that one is going to change to become a need you see at some point if I don't eat I'm going to starve to death so I have to eat right


so it's a it's it's, the level of err you know at that at that point in time where you are where what what what that particular, thing that you want or rather is that is that a particular thing that you want or is that a particular thing that you you need I don't know if it makes sense lah but ya


(uh huh)


right right okay, I I feel that we should refer to maslow's hierarchy of needs because err that is that is a very good definition of uh what is actually a need need what is not a need so so maslow right maslow's hierarchy states that you know there's a few levels


where you know uh that that that that that uh forms a pyramid right of of what you need so the very first layer of the pyramid is actually err you know err food and water you know to survive and then the second layer will be shelter and then the third layer will be love


uh you know and the the the fourth and the fifth layer is like uh all those you know self fulfillment and and self attainment and all that kind of stuff so, to to properly define something as a as whether is it a want or need it all depends on, err how how you look it how you look


at the situation and and different people have different interpretations of what they want and what they need mah right so , something that you want may be something that I need


!huh! say again, lazier in what sense


okay I I think based on this, this this this uh topic right , I I feel that maybe the the key point here is not really, what what is it that we want or what is it that we need but whether or not


modern technology uh what has it done to contribute to you know to to uh to satisfying our our wants uh and our needs so I think for for modern technology wise, I feel that err the


I mean because like what you said right because what it makes it easier for you you you're it is so easy and within reach, for you to actually do something using modern technology like for example ordering food and all that you know you can just use the app and and order your food and all so, (ppc) people who


whom who are, very uh technologically savvy, they can use, you cannot hear me hello hello, okay can can you hear me now


okay ya so where was I ah uh okay so my point was my point was because of the fact that err we are using technology, let's say for example err I am technologically savvy and I'm using and I'm actually using GrabFood to buy err food for myself right


I I I don't really need, to to to, to to buy food and and to to spend money buying food err but I can because I'm technologically savvy so err I I'm satisfying my my want and most of the time right err sometimes we talk about eating supper okay at night right usually at night


all the foods uh all the all the shop places all close but GrabFood for example they they liaise with twenty four seven you know err shops and all that so you can still buy your food at night and and fix yourself supper even though you don't really uh you're you're not really feeling hungry


so you you it becomes more of a want rather than a need because I can because I can eat at this time and because you know there's a way for me to order food at this time, ya so I I I think that


err because we are using technology I feel that err it makes it it makes us have easier access, to err you know to to to, err things like you know err apps err you know it makes it makes it easier for us to do things order things online and all this kind of stuff so because of that we we tend to spend more money and we


tend to spend more stuff more more more more of our time and and and money on stuff that, uh we probably don't really need you know but it's just a matter oh I feel like getting bubble tea now I'm going to buy bubble tea for myself you know


right ya your bubble tea fix right, ya, so sometimes we so so so sometimes we we create a need out of out of a want lah


ya I


to de-stress


so so so how do you stop that that that err that one from becoming a need then we should take away modern technology from these people lah, right , so that's it


err I think it I I think it also boils down to self discipline lah you know , where you know that you have the spending power you know that you have the money to spend err and you know that you are trying to get over a heartbreak


or whatever and you need to do something err something that you like so some people like shopping so they indulge in this thing called binge shopping just like how people do binge eating when they are stressed you know uh they they they eat they eat snacks and all that kind of stuff ya so


I think the the the point is err to make it harder for these people to have access to these things so, you know how do you how do you confiscate confiscate their phones uh you know don't let them use technology err just make sure that they


they self err they self quarantine you know because of COVID nineteen err just make sure that they don't , , it's a it's a it's a form of err it's a form of err how to say ah therapeutic err


it's a form of a self, therapeutic err way of err making sure that you don't you don't err you know spend your money on unnecessary things rather than, and you should sit down and reflect


I think I don't know but err that that could be one of the one of the the, ways lah you know ya but but I I feel that you know with with with the with the use of modern technology I think , a lot of us have access to a lot of things that we probably don't need lah err I'll I'll use myself as an example lah I I shop at Carousell almost every other day uh


and and the way the exactly exactly exactly, so so the thing is so the thing is the the only way is to to remove, the element of err of err technology lah so so let's say for example for today what I do was I


I I I can remove myself from the equation lah for example I can I can go to sleep, on a on a weekend and take a nap I can I I can I can


, but but but ya lah I mean you you have a point you have a valid point I guess again and as with all our other points it all depends on err, you know depends on how much of self discipline we have and err uh how we actually harness the use of the technology what is the intention of us using this technology does this is it to satisfy a want or is it to satisfy our needs so


ya so ya yup (ppc)


err basically for me , I won't disagree with that point lah, but I just want to make another point regarding this uh basically about technology become a major distraction in life, whereby people always want to get the most latest stuff you know


, so personally for me I think, this is a really a very I call, major distraction lah whereby, some people will just be you know loss of touch ah


you know in their life basically they have no idea what they are doing here, and there (hmm) okay talking about that talking about travelling, what do you feel about


when travelling example like to china then they will have this basically, technology , like got facial, recognition official tracking on people's face, you know when they going through the customs


because I think that is really a lack of privacy ah for most people, cause they will not feel secure ah because example like, china they will, basically the government can just you know uh


monitor whatever you are doing, in real time, and they can just monitor


anyway I got another point to what extent technology have made our lives more fulfilling which I disagree uh whereby people at will, okay let's compare last time to now now more people are isolating themselves because online life is more interesting than offline you know


ya online life is more interesting than offline so basically they will spend more time in front of the computers lah either playing games , social media or anything like that basically in short they are wasting their time lah, seeing their life in shots


so as of that you can see lesser and lesser people outside than lesser and lesser people you know try to socialize outside as in I'm not saying, there is no people, socialising there is but , most of it people


whether to spend time at home it's like you know that's their what you call, what you call that superman place what temple of solitude ah ya whereby they would head they would go back to that place you know if if they're hurt or anything you just go back there at home then you are just isolate themselves


can be, hours days some people even weeks you know


but don't you think you will lose that sense of humanity or something, ya it it, as in you you you can talk to that person lah but in a way you know you won't, you know like what you say you won't have that human touch you know, basically everything's all online


okay talking about that , talking about that how about the part where some people they you know blur their life between, real life and virtual life literally they spend so much time in you know in virtual that they you know they they in a way can't differentiate which one is a real life or which one is a


you know virtual you know, so they they won't example like you know in virtual life you know they will be like a you know big time Troller you know just insulting if you want this and that but now they will they will have this same attitude when they


oh what you call couch potatoes you know something like that, ,


that's because you got money mah


okay I got one more point about how does technology does not make our life more fulfilling in terms of medical, so basically technology allow us to create advanced antibiotics uh, then


but by doing this indirectly they're creating a you know future super bugs you know whereby you know that that particular virus strain or anything is more resistant to antibiotics, so as our technology advance we have even more advanced antibiotics then we have even much more worse virus you know in the future whereby you know you you


like you know nowadays you know certain antibiotics doesn't even, know cure their particular virus anymore ya so you need to keep upgrading upgrading so you come to a point whereby you know your, you you know you are you'll be stuck at that particular level whereby you can't


you you know your your what you call your progress is not much to whatever they can innovate in terms of antibiotics, in terms of that medical research ah


, so I assume we're gonna swallow another virus


worse still I believe they got some new strains or something like that they got some variants somewhere


talking to that talking about that I I don't think it kind of slow down I think it just you know because of education then you kind of educate people you know so people instead of slowing down you know they they kind of prevent whereby you know they will not do such things that leads to all these HIV and all other sexual transmitted diseases ah so


I, think is more than education instead of technology ah


talking talking about space exploration somehow this space exploration right also in the past ah they trigger this particular space race you know between those the, err, superpower countries ya so because of that then you know one country will will try to advance more in their space technologies then


you know you know in in a way they, you know they can have like kinda like a cold war you know because of that, based on that so, don't don't you think that is actually, a negative thing


from what I see from from the past, all the superpower countries you know their their purpose is just to you know dominate the market, whatever market it is lah, the technology market or space or something like that you know they just wanna be the first in the world


which which I think is not a good thing


what kind of science fiction movies


I would, kind of agree with that but I think most of time I would disagree so basically uh you are saying


about the machine learning, the, I I believe is what you call deep learning or something right for AI so basically what happens is that , okay so basically, talk about AI we we must know how AI works basically, for them to work we must have an input then they will have a output so the input is what we put into the AI and and what kind of input like you know what kind of what you call


variables you know variables that you want this AI to produce so basically you can limit this kind of err variable so that the AI you know will only learn certain things uh, ya it's like they they they don't


they only learn what we ask them to learn, ah so so, so basically they will they will just limit over there lah, that's because we we didn't do the limit lah


if we do the limit itself like example you know we we limit them to maybe just learning languages you know ah, then then you will just learn just language and and they they won't they will not try to do anything else lah


so we as uh the human the creators themselves we must , be the one responsible for our actions ah and we must err know what we are doing


but but don't you think that there will be a big risk you know it's like you are, okay example like you are you know in investing on something but then when you're investing you don't take those calculated risk so basically what you're doing you just put everything know all all your eggs in one basket lah so you just let the AI do whatever he want


don't don't you think basically you must know even though you want to let it explore you must set certain limits, then there's a case you know the the AI you know who just , learn what needs to learn and maybe just a little bit more and on top of that also what you can do it you can put like err what you call


err okay I kinda, don't remember the word but it's it's like a stop button you know so example like the AI okay let's take example I believe three years ago, Facebook and I think Tesla or something if I'm not wrong lah basically Facebook created this particular AI


so this AI they have this , chat bot you know, so basically this chat bot is is a deep learning AI so what happen is that this AI right they they, learned this particular language which is the english language then at one point the AI you know they they just


created their own way to communicate between each other, so basically there there's two AI in that they I I believe is what ah what's their name ah let me see if I can find I think is alice and bob or something so basically why what happen between this alice and bob is that they're having a conversation between themselves as AIs


so basically ah what happens is that when when facebook detected this kind of err thing you know that that you know because it's creepy because your AI start to talk to each other out of the blue you know , kind of thing, and and they are still talking english but they're talking in in codes you know like maybe hi there then maybe they will another reply uh hi then maybe the the the alice will say hi hi hi then they're they're they're know then they will start talking that way you know but but they're just using just a handful of words lah ya


so what happenws for Facebook is that they literally they just shut down the the what you call the AI system before they can proceed you know to to become so called self-aware , ya so so basically what what Facebook did is that they


stopped before the the AI you know can can, do more ah I won't say more harm lah it's just that before the AI start to discover more things on their own lah so don't you think there's a what you call like control that was talking about just now


I I think I watched the movie


decide ya on their own decisions ah


don't don't you think that's that's that's a what you call self-aware AI you know that has, the the, what you call human features you know


so basically it's like I I don't even think it's robot like example now we are having those drones you know, ya, basically those drones okay they are they are not what you call uh self learning AI but someone is controlling behind, so so imagine those drones that we control


so in the future we gonna add like those, , AI you know so that they can self learn and and all that stuff and, don't don't you think that that's actually a better option in terms of war you know so that they can just, you know , attack just just you know


at the end of the day the country would just lose assets you know they they don't lose people


okay according to that , I I think basically what you are saying about the intention of the so called the creators themselves so for me I believe, it basically boils down on the on the creator themselves basically the the person creating it so the person have bad intentions then then you know then you'll be creating


AI for bad purposes lah but if you have good intentions like example what, okay let's use an life example example like Tesla you know so elon musk know basically, that that is a very good example of uh artificial intelligence uh being used in the car


so basically what happens is that the the car have a what you call self-drive feature you know, they can you know, navigate themselves between traffics and stuff, ya so, because of all these don't you think it actually, makes your, as in as in how how can you be so concerned about the as in at the end of the day you know it just make your life easier lah


if if the intention of the creators are


maybe they got bad intentions or something like that


unless unless you have someone taking over with good intentions ah may maybe you know like like good governance or something like that or maybe like you know like like like singapore you know


but but don't you think you know they they can you know just, an example like may maybe their space shuttle or I won't say it's space shuttle you know like their last launch which is the what you call the dragon, dragon dragon rocket ya dragon capsule so so imagine if you


got to put an AI he as in those deep learning AI you know into into that particular capsule then don't you, think the the the journey will be you know much more safer and because because the AI will know how to adapt to the surroundings like example like you know maybe your during launch then maybe they got certain uh they face certain problems you know when when they are


when when they're launching into space lah but on top of that because, while they're in control they also have a AI you know as a backup okay example a very good example is like the movie very old movie I think it's knight rider I don't know if you've heard of that, ya so basically you see the the the AI and the driver themselves you know they're they're hand in hand together fighting the bad guys I think so this will be the same case as the the the rocket lah


is it a rocket ah the the capsule itself


automatically is it or or is it the, automatically, but can the can but can the pilot like override it like you know he he try to pull up or something like


is it so so the problem is at the you know by the manufacturers themselves because they didn't educate enough to say


number two I think you you should you should make that AI aware , ya it's because I believe it was, part of their mechanism or something was was jam or something like that


unless unless you make your AI learn more lah you know, then your AI will start to learn more then it will understand the situation then it will try to adapt you know, okay okay as as bad at it sounds ah if we were to have a what you call a deep learning AI


you kind of need more accidents so that the AI will learn that that's how the AI learns the AI learns through failures you say the the more they fail they will learn, ya so , ya you get what I mean the loss of life lah so


ya so but you see the objective of AI is to achieve that particular objective you know they they, for whatever the cause is lah so ya,


part three debate topic three


okay sorry to interrupt you but but don't you think by saying that know you are actually, creating a need out of a want, you know those like unnecessary needs


which which I believe nowadays you know, there there's just so much thing that you need I think pretty much everything is just a want


okay how how how about this, okay I ask you this question let's say you have a, japanese toy okay, would that satisfy your wants or is that would that satisfy your needs,


err I'm talking about the the Gundam toy lah


Gundams


but don't don't you think that just prove my point whereby you know people just want something and it's not a need, so basically all all their needs is not there you know, because everything every single thing that they have is is what they want at the end of the day


so you go back to example the that japanese toy, will that be a want or will that be a need, which I believe most of people it's just a want lah


unless you are deprived of that particular toy lah you know that particular version of


then how about the middle class, which I believe most of them is a want lah


then then it will change that that want to a need ah


, , but but it won't it won't collapse right so basically you can still, no need to eat but you can just you know sleep it off, so you can have a sleep for for dinner


okay so basically for me I I I believe that modern technology will is a need, to, satisfy our our our needs ah basically modern technology satisfy our needs because we are living in a constant busy world, then you know


when when you have a lot of technology you know each device or technology piece of technology you can , do do for something you know so in okay in long story short is basically like multitasking lah so example like you have a piece of computer then this computer will have different different functions then on top of that you you still have your mobile phone while you can check your other things you can communicate with other people so basically


you know in in a way, you know like what what we can agree on those wants will be a need, (ppc) but because of these need we we kind of create this false sense of need even though,


even though what what we want is not exactly what we want because at the end of the day we you know we just want to be more efficient and you know just just you you know humans so basically we just want to complete everything fast you know


efficient fast and you know at the end of the day after you finished whatever you want to do then you can just focus on something else, so in a way they they created this false sense of need ah, what do you think about that


but don't you think by by, but don't you think by making these, things you know people will just get more lazier as the time goes by, cause at the end of the day you know


lazier because they, everything will just you know be at at their palms or their hand you know, so basically let's say if you want something you just order it you know, then it'll just come to you, then in instead of you know people go out physically getting things this and that


then that thing will lead from one thing to another ah then you will become a you know couch potato, then after that you become lazy, then then you will, at one point you you know like, get uh what you call


disconnected from the world, then just basically you know, but they are spending most of the time at home and


I'm I'm missing you


so so you say in in the long run at at the end of the day you know it's like what what you've just said it kind of just fortifies my point whereby you know , people will just convert, eventually I I I won't say convert immediately I would say eventually so basically they will just eventually convert their wants to a need so example like now you want a bubble tea but you know in future because you have


you want the bubble tea every other time so end up you know at one point you will just need a bubble tea you see, , ya ya, then then because of that then then you'll get


, so basically , so as you can as you can see it no, most of the time our wants is is it's kind of like a want but at the end of the day you know, as the time goes by you know because we have this privilege you know to


to, to do what we want, then, you know we just getting what we want every other day you know eventually you will come to a point but you will just need that thing you you know it's like somehow you get addicted or something, okay example like very good example is a shopping you know you you


shopping is not a need, is a want but because people you know once in a while you know they okay some people they they what you call they're heartbroken or something then they will just go for shopping, you know, then because of that they then they will say you know is is a need for me you know to


to to to, how you put it, ya ya in in a way like de-stress you know ya so they make this kind of thing like a habit so from a want then eventually you know every single reasons that you know come, come by right then you just use that same reason then you just go shopping again so eventually that want ah you will just lead to a need ah


but, what I can say it's that instead of just taking away the modern technology where you can


one way you know you you can either have, counselling or in in short you know educate yourself ah but I think most of the people when they are depressed you know they, the cutting for themselves so basically they need a third party you know to to come in to help them, think otherwise you know


sorry what they they're gonna lock themselves at home


but don't you think like that then then you will so called the deprive deprive their needs


you see so, eventually you'll create that into a need, then you just fortify one of my point again


but but we can't remove that technology itself, it'll be unrealistic, for how long you can't be sleeping the two whole days what or maybe one whole week ah,


which I think it's a good balance lah


part one debate topic one


can I start now, okay so jonathan how far is failure an essential part of success


okay okay okay, no more ya, so uh jonathan uh the first uh topic we're gonna discuss is uh about failure


an essential part of uh success so my point is uh uh to me lah, failure is one of the most important milestone to success, and uh uh I I take example for today's world on my


uh personal experience example like uh if you are going into baking , uh baking uh something that is uh uh your first time you know you you may not uh, be successful the first time so you may fail the second time may fail the third time and then ultimately


uh with many failures you you will come up to uh uh build the the most perfect baking at the end of the day , so this is where I feel that uh failure is one of the most important milestone uh ya, and another another example I have is in the olden days I'm sure you heard of


uh thomas edison right the one who invented the light bulbs he actually failed, one thousand times before ya before light bulbs is being invented, and what I like is about uh his perspective about failure is you know he he take all of this one thousand time as


uh, a milestone as a process you know a process not failures although fail fail fail fail but, he felt that these are not failures so these are the process towards the success ya


so I I therefore I uh strongly feel that , uh failure is one of the most important uh, experience ah ya essential lah it's truly essential before uh


you succeed ya and uh, uh I do not know whether you personally, uh do uh do have this uh the same thoughts uh as mine uh ya


I I also personally experienced many failures like ya like you know uh, uh a lot of failures like for me lah for me I how I teach my children and then I, this failed and I go another way and then I find that eh if without me uh you know having to


clash you know on something I actually don't know that that that doesn't work and then, I try another method and it works ya so to me it's very essential I don't know about you ya


I somewhat agree, and but I have a point uh to kind of uh contest it's, when you talk about governing okay when you talk about economics all this is uh it's it's not a a a single part of success


it takes or uh it takes uh both parties it takes the the uh people in the country it takes the uh , it's at the government to me it's it's a form of management , it is not uh there is no uh success or failure


in management because if you are managing a team for example you're managing uh uh uh country people, and to to how do they respond to the economics how do they respond to the governing system all these need


err uh uh human responses you know which which is very hard to determine uh failure and success, but there's one there's one uh governing system I can understand example china they I can I can see the success ah


you know china I'm not sure you heard of uh , the nineteen eighties during the nineteen eighties they have this <mandarin>天安门事件:tian an men shi jian</mandarin> I don't know whether you know right and those days were the the way how china, govern their their country


but in today's world if you if you if you bring back <mandarin>天安门事件:tian an men shi jian</mandarin> I think, it's it's totally different you know I'm sure I'm sure they have learnt and because of <mandarin>天安门事件:tian an men shi jian</mandarin> they, their country as a country china they are in fact being barred but where it affects their economics uh


uh uh stability in fact they are not opened, and US started to ban them as uh not the most favoured nation and they , they lost their their their trading uh uh uh partnership and all that so I think they learnt


they must have learnt from the failure what they have done in <mandarin>天安门事件:tian an men shi jian</mandarin> how they managed it and then they they come to today, so if all what you have mentioned that there is no success at all I I don't quite agree lor , I think there is some what uh


they do hindsight you know they do hindsight back like uh what actually is not right to do, I mean <mandarin>天安门事件:tian an men shi jian</mandarin> is a failure , ya and it's it's cruelty and it's you know a lot of country view china differently


and in the way they they managed the crisis right, ya so I mean what do you think of that


correct


yup,


correct,


right right uh if if we were to just take managing country, as uh whether failure is essential or not I think it's a a a rather uh how to say ah it's rather a a borderless uh


uh how to say more uh borderless uh uh uh example because, to me managing a country is not uh it's not a matter of whether you should fail to become successful you know it is also depend on the the


people who live in the country you you take singapore for example okay that's a good example you say singapore never fails, and now become very successful to me I feel that yes you can see now is successful but it would have been better


managed if we do not have, uh if we do not have certain things set up and on the back end uh uh of course on the on the on the, uh global scale you people see singapore as successful


but uh inwardly inwardly do you think, we are all successful no okay the fact is no, the family continue to be broken you know there are broken families because we are chasing after the the government is also chasing after


uh uh uh to to win the recognition to be global you know to to do a lot more to show other people that we are on the same wavelength, you know and that also took some sacrifices uh uh uh from the family's side I don't know about you but I know some families they actually uh uh


uh fall back uh because of uh I'm I'm not sure if I should mention this the casino you know for example, you know it's casino is is great making a lot of money but is it a good thing to have, you know is it a must have you know so you you think this is success I don't think to me I don't think this is successful there's many other ways to to do business


to me lah you know and uh we are not that, mindful on to see the three hundred and sixty degrees uh uh to have the three hundred and sixty degrees mission like what you said, you know whether you know this should be implemented this should be uh the the the way to go yeah so


may may not ya may may not


part two debate topic two okay I'm gonna start


oh the same thing ha okay okay, yes


no, okay I'm gonna start now ah


right so I agree that experiences are more valuable than material possessions , uh why do I say so it's because uh I'm not sure uh jonathan have you heard of uh uh


buying I mean have you heard of this phrase lah or this terms says experience economics, experience economics okay ya so I I'm I'm in I'm from the retail background for the past thirty years ah so we always talk about


customer experience customer experience okay this is on the business part , where you uh where we all we are very very we treat this uh customer experience uh on a very high, uh scorecard because uh retail is so competitive right so what is it uh so good


to to to go to your store what is it so good to buy from your brand, you know you what's so special you know it's not a rocket science to buy a t-shirt from this brand uh or that brand right , so we talk about customer experience buying experience okay rather than uh uh uh just the object the the merchandise itself


so what what is what customer go through the experience is far more impressive ah than just uh getting a product, like you know services like uh how how are they being treated you know these are


far more uhvaluable than just, buying the object of course prices is the is the fundamental one but on top of the prices, what is it what is it that makes you different you know right another part of uh my point is why experience uh are are far more


valuable than uh uh possession possession I would uh on my term is maybe uh merchandise for example, uh if you have x amount of dollars okay, for me I would uh now lah at this stage of my life


uh or rather after I I I I became a child of god I actually do not buy anymore branded things, you know I I like uh uh Louis Vuitton bag I don't buy anymore I used to purchase that kind of uh uh stuff so I have cut


my uh I mean I have changed my perspective totally that I find that, experience is so important you know so uh so valuable so I rather spend the money the x amount of dollars, to go holiday I mean my holiday is not like truly uh relax do nothing and you know my holiday is surely going to a a place that I want to know like for example


uh last year I went to israel to me is a experience you know that no one no one can take from me but, ya but but you know if you own a a Louis Vuitton bag and one day the bag can get lost, the bag can become old mouldy you know but the money that I spent last year


you know is something that I cannot forget I had I always have this close to my heart you know no one no one can take away no one can take away, and I I we have photographs you know and then you can look back at your photographs and you really uh


changed your a part uh from the perspective of your life also you know that appreciate that that, ya exactly expense and then it also, like if if you travel to india if you travel to india you see how poverty is you know you travel to bangladesh


you know I used to travel for my work you go see bangladeshi how they live, it's in such a muddy place and and their home is actually full of muds because they are lowland you know so, when it's a uh monsoon raining they just have to live by it you know and


you kind of uh change your perspective in life and you you became uh very appreciative so such kind of experience, nobody can can replicate you know no one can replicate ya so uh what what what do you think of it that


do you think so


(mmhmm) right right if you if you want to play back our parents days ah okay I think uh experience is, still more valuable why for example if uh


for example like if my dad ah my dad uh he he worked for people for all his life and uh in a retail shop , and with that experience uh he actually, uh with the experience that he have working all his life in a retail shop he actually uh set up his own uh retail shop


ya so if you if if my dad would just if if I ask my dad is experience is important, for your job you know then he will say yes it's important if not I wouldn't have been inspired, you know if not I wouldn't have uh been inspired to know that eh actually the the margin is good actually because he does account


you know with the abacus for the shop you see so he actually knows about the the margin the, the the you know the cost of goods, and then the the the retail price he actually learnt about this where internally


uh from the shop but externally he doesn't he doesn't learn from school so if you think that, uh in our our our parent days experience not important I still think that it's valuable, than than he he ya I would say that he


he will say that what is experience you know ya, ya and uh and another uh, another aspect of of of it is uh why why is it uh far more important than uh possession


because uh I I always have the uh the the same mindset is uh when you possess something, that something may not be with you forever, it is never uh people always say what you cannot bring to your coffin you know


right so whatever you possess you can't bring to your coffin so I still think that experiences are, on a higher grade more valuable than uh what you possess ya


I I agree I agree I mean I agree totally uh when you start to compare uh essential and non-essential you know ya but, now we're we're actually uh uh kind of uh discuss about is experience uh more valuable so you say both equally are valuable but which is more


at at your stage of life you know, yes


okay fair enough, yup right


uh


right right so uh uh pertaining to uh, dine out okay you use dining out as example okay so when you to me I I hear from you ah, uh to me is dine okay now we talk about family dine out ah not friends dine out okay family dine out


no outside one, okay so uh dining out dining out with family so to me uh


it's still the the the uh part of experience it's important to me is dining out together to me is uh uh, uh not about uh where we go to eat, of course lah my my my children they know uh our general budget


restaurants lah you know like our level one you will not go to shangri-la, you will not go to uh you know you will not go higher just for simple dinner but ya but we we will not view , like uh go where as uh as the most important thing but to me it's


I always tell my family I say if we can sit, together and eat together I said no matter where it was you know it does not matter, you know ya so this is far more important to me lah, uh as as what uh what you have shared I I agree I agree ya getting together to me the experience together how how how much time you have together you know


for for me my children are big already it's very hard to to get together everybody as ya eat together I think we can count ah a a handful only a year, uh uh birthday christmas chinese new year you know ya but all do do that


not they stay with me but then uh to to have the time schedule to eat together is is not always uh easy lah, so ya so to me uh having that experience eating together ti's like far more valuable ya


correct , no no ya we don't because of different schedule they work ya, so it's it's a little bit different from you lah when your girl grew up maybe uh you will see you will experience what I experience ya


, ya correct correct correct ya so are we done with this uh topic


okay, ya


part three debate topic three, okay part three debate topic three countries experience


oh okay


okay I'm going to start uh, right so countries uh experiencing conflict should be left to sort out their own problems, how far do I agree I I strongly agree that uh


between countries if they have conflict ya they should uh they should if they should actually uh uh settle it, as soon as possible because if not it will turn to be viral and this viral it's it's


it's definitely gonna affect the the people uh live in the country the economics okay I I I mention this because if I take, uh the two big country uh right now is having conflicts the trade conflicts uh it actually


turned haywire you know uh the the I would say globally everyone is affected, okay uh, especially uh their own uh country people uh say for example uh uh their their retail their retailers in the US


uh they're actually badly affected by at at back at their supply chain their supply chain is totally disrupted, disrupted badly and they had to do a a brand new shift of uh uh their their buying their sourcing their


uh inventory and uh to avoid uh uh the you know the slap of uh uh, increased taxes and all that so if if uh based on uh I would say simple lah I would say if if countries


can can both come to a term uh which uh is is so essential uh if they don't if they put this aside or they delay it, the rest of the people will be affected and this this works ah this uh uh


this chain uh reaction ah is not is not just uh a a a one day thing it it it is like uh, uh the the supply chain the sourcing people is going to do uh the whole shift of paradigm of uh uh


uh sourcing country and even after they have shift what if, something change again and it is not so simple as uh uh I don't buy from country a I buy from country b, there's a lot more uh uh


work to be done than just doing that ya and, uh this is why I I feel personally that , uh countries has conflict first of all the the


most effective uh component that uh coming into, uh uh, spiral lah will be the economics and uh, I would say uh of course lah it again it depends on uh how big the the country is lah but right now uh this prevailing problem uh


the US retailer is facing and , and uh uh china is facing is also uh their their infrastructure you know their their software, you know is also affected you know one wechat and one whatsapp so wechat and whatsapp so you go to china you cannot use whatsapp you go to US you cannot use wechat


but then uh, they both have to communicate other than the the top top, uh big guy, are not gonna talk to each other but the rest of the the people around still in business, they still need to talk around you know still need to uh their daily life still need to go on


ya so uh on that part I feel that, it's they're they will be badly affected and I I wonder why these heads are, are not uh seeing it you know are not taking it uh uh as a pain you know even I'm I'm no longer in in in in in this uh


in this uh global business anymore but I do see the pain of the people , have to work around work around clock just to just to make uh uh, plus one you know like our our trade minister also say now you cannot have uh uh source A country uh


source A country must have plus one plus two so you must have backup you know you have backup one and backup two, and that backup is not just like you you want to engage someone to be your your your reserve your backup, ya it's not so easy you know as as that you have to do development of product you have to get


you have to test the product you have to pass the product and then all this development cost all this, testing cost who's gonna pay you know at the end of the day ya and that that that plus supplier that you you you reserved, are they going to pay you know so a a a lot of uh pain points ah


ya a lot of pain points that uh people have to go through which they don't see it, ya so what do you think


the word that when I say they should be left to sort out on their own means they should take it seriously, they should uh uh they should immediately addressed it and do it and not drag and drag and drag


you know I think both parties plays a part it's not just oh, US is like that because uh china is like that I think both has to come together and hold hand together, otherwise otherwise it will not settle and who suffer who suffer


the the the the companies will suffer we even singapore we we we will be affected, you know what I mean ya


oh if within the country you mention is civil what, if it is civil how would the outsider , uh uh should come in it's it's very unlikely even right now if it externally it affected


it actually affected uh uh singapore it's actually affected many other countries where has has uh business dealing with US or china , do you know that we are in between do you know that ya we we don't know whether uh


uh this this doing this way is correct or not because US can come out a rule oh tomorrow and then, and then we start to shift we are never ending chasing you know because we are the third parties you know, ya so if you if you mention it's internal then how how would an external party be able to intervene


ya exactly it's it is actually already happening, ya it is already happening it's just that uh, uh now come with uh COVID nineteen so it's being put aside to uh uh make it as a


uh low become a low hanging fruit you see but uh they they they dealt with uh COVID nineteen issue as a as a higher priority, but nonetheless uh this will continue and uh of course on a country like ours so small we are we are being affected badly yeah in fact uh some of the


(uh0 china uh , uh what do you call china uh manufacturers uh they have they are also be affected because a lot of business are being has been moved out , uh from their region ya and whether it is the right thing to do nobody knows still china is still the cheapest


the the most efficient I would say in terms of manufacturing ya so uh who who, ya who who who who will be hurt most, the the the US themselves and did the US head uh care


do they care about the the incremental of the cost of goods do they care about the incremental of the the the potential incremental of the retail price do they care about the, the the longer lead time to produce you know


all these are not taken into considerations therefore therefore I still feel that , the two parties has the say please say together and say it once and for all, it actually to me is they're like kids you know


they're not uh they're not seeing the big picture on how, how how viral this is is going into and how bad it is going to affect like they're actually committing suicide, you know they hurt themselves far more than uh uh uh having uh to say that


what is more right than you know who is more right you know who has more more benefits uh than one another, ya I I agree with what you mentioned about, uh where where iraq uh of course US intervene uh to help them I think you see these more so in the in the uh last


thirty twenty thirty years like during the george bush time uh it's far more, uh connected lah ya in fact I think US is also taking a back seat, on on such things ya even the world health organisation US is also taking the back seat he's not going to they they he knows that they're not


it's not so effective and why china pay so little, why he paid so much why he get this uh uh, kind of service you know, ya so you know they are comparing uhuh things around in terms of uh this kind of value


you know and and they should actually uh uh run they they have the say they they have the the very powerful strength you know to to determine how the world economy should run, but yeah


yes, part one debate topic one


oh we're going into this uh how far is uh failure an essential part success for my for my, oh it's not the banking thing yet ah banking thing is later lah hor ya sorry, no banking thing oh no more okay


, sure alright okay I hear you uh phoebe I I know where you're coming from , true uh no doubt are we all learn from failures and uh uh past mistakes I do agree that uh


failure can be uh can can lead to success in a certain sense lah , however uh, it is it is I don't think it's uh it's it should necessarily be an essential part of success it can lead to success it can be


a a milestone as you mentioned just now right uh of success but however is it definitely essential, uh for success I think, to a certain extent it is but it's not it's not actually an essential part lah if uh for example a case in point you we look around us right


where I believe for the let's say uh past six thousand years and uh we have tried all forms of uh governments from, from monarchy to aristocracy to democracy, oligarchy democracy theocracy and tyranny except for theocracy lah hor all have failed and continue to fail today


where uh all the forms of governments have uh have not managed to, uh err solve, the problems that we see uh until today for example the, the disparity between the rich and the poor right the social problems and issues they continue to exist in a in in our midst for all these uh


past six thousand years and you if you if you see right is they're all patterns they're always the always the same the same issues even right now if you look around, around us in the different countries basically right they're all the same set of questions every government is


is facing right okay so also we have all failed, uh even after we have tried uh just now we talked about uh forms of governments lah hor now we talking about even for economic systems, are we have tried capitalism communism distributism feudalism socialism right


all out all these forms of uh economic systems have tried and we're failed, but they have not led us to a better system we continue to use the same old system so in the sense right uh even though all have failed


we have not learnt, from the failures we still continue to run , uh countries in the different forms that have already failed in the past so uh whether failure is uh unavoidable, uh part of success I don't think so it can have it can have certain impact on future successes but definitely I don't think it is uh that essential lah


okay so uh past failures definitely have helped us improve I agree with you on that point lah, but uh have not helped us in uh help us succeed in in governing and in establishing the right form of uh economic system as what I've I have just mentioned so failures in this sense


have helped little ya so that's that's my point of view lah ya


well true to uh true true definitely uh I hope china will not uh, uh what do you call that repeat what has happened in <mandarin>天安门:tian an men</mandarin> just like japan will not repeat what they did in world war two


right uh just like uh last night in the news we heard the their ministers right uh mentioning that they hope not to repeat the same thing, the same catastrophe that uh they have caused in the in the world war yeah but the


we we hope so lah we hope so we hope that they don't go back to that lah okay ya so, true to true they there there will be improvement , but uh does is that a necessary thing to lead to uh uh success, that is probably like uh like what you say uh uh hindsight right and then they say okay now uh we're gonna improve


we're now going to we're going to deal it with it in a different way , right but uh does does that's a small episode of the of the history of china but does that, necessarily uh improve their their governments of the country you know that's that's an approach to


to uh what what do you call they term that last time as rebellion lah, okay but that's that's just one part but in terms of succeeding as a government, uh that that doesn't really uh uh lead to that lah, uh success as a as a government communism still


uh does is not uh the the the the best government the form of government that, that we have lah in or even in china right, so obviously uh as you mentioned we can use past failures as guides


so do not fail again right in the same thing so like what you have already quoted, for that uh but then that doesn't mean that we all have to fail in order to succeed right, we we don't have to we don't necessarily have to fail ourselves we can learn from failures experienced by others


so even without going through failure we can still learn from others, right we can learn from their mistakes we can come up with better model however that that also does not mean that we will come up with a successful model, because we will also be trying out lah okay why I say uh failure is not essential


to success is cause uh one does not necessarily have to fail in order to succeed so uh for example there are many cases of success, without the the major failure that we see in , another system for example in singapore right you take singapore for example


we did not fail as a nation in the past six uh fifty years we grew as a nation so we didn't fail in order to arrive at where we are today right, so uh it was through uh very carefully thought out plans a vision and uh many many right decisions


that uh the singapore became a success story so singapore's success is not because of failure it's not because yes because of the failures it has gone through, also uh failure is not essential to success uh because what is essential to success I would I would say is vision


it is perhaps faith, it is perhaps uh determination right uh for example will look at israel alright, israel uh as we know it was a people that was vanished I mean uh not vanished lah uh uh uh was a exiled right and uh the nation


uh was uh I mean uh was not a nation for for a long period of time right, but then through because they had vision because they had faith and because they had determination, we see in uh nineteen forty five they came back as a they came back together as a people and their country finally uh being recognised again


uh by everybody uh to be a legitimate nation lah, again they they they was uh they were able to to fly their flag again lah so the jews the success of the jews in our day , wasn't because of failures uh they became a state not because of failures but we can see definitely a lot of


a lot of efforts behind the scene people trying very hard for years I think centuries right decades before they came to this point, so it's more more like uh vision faith and determination that is more essential


to success than failure in this case as well lah ya that's that's what I that's what I feel ya


definitely not


so even even though well even on a smaller scale like uh in a marriage right , marriage to have a successful marriage let's say we're just talking about two people lah hor


do does the couple necessarily have to go through failure in order to succeed a in a marriage, well may may may may may be may not be but definitely will go through we we we may go through ya we may go through a certain issues we will definitely go through challenge there will be conflicts there will be


uh there will be the drawing out of territories and and and and and uh expectations and all that right, but uh uh some couples , have uh chosen to learn from the failures of others rather than to fail themselves experience failure so that they can they can make a right and uh try to


try to uh make the the the marriage a better a better one so they they they read up books, ah


, part two debate topic two


okay, , uh okay


(mmhmm),


not really can you tell me ya can you explain to ya,


, (mmhmm),


(mmhmm) , yeah


yeah, yes, correct, , ya,


yes, yes, , yes


, yeah of course it expands on our horizons


(hmm), alright phoebe ya phoebe actually I I I I can't agree uh I can't agree more with you because uh I I truly agree with you that's what I'm trying to say ya


that means uh because I I also agree that uh I agree that uh what you mentioned about experiences being valuable parts of our life uh it will expand our uh our uh worldview, it will enrich our life and all that no no doubt about that lah, can I assume this question is uh and I also I also agree with what you mentioned about this uh what do you call that the retail experience right


the experience creating a great experience for the consumer which is very important today is a very big thing, it's all about experience nowadays so when I read this question I assumed that the question is about uh how we spend money as you mentioned lah hor whether our focus is in great getting a great experience or simply to possess some


some materials or the the the some possessions lah hor so, however I think that uh, experiences may not be as uh more valuable than material possessions rather I think that, uh both uh experience and uh material possessions are as valuable as each other I think we need a bit of both


right uh I know many uh millennials or or or the people who live in in in this contemporary world would choose experience uh , uh like like like like like I I mean uh like never before lah nothing wrong with that because we all want a good experience however we must not forget that there's there is


many a times right uh we are able to choose experience over possession because of the world we live in today, right uh because today we do not have the same scarcity, that uh our forefathers or even uh uh we ourselves experience two or three decades ago


alright today we can we can have the luxury of choosing experience over possession because , uh the the lack is not there we are already at another level we can afford the experience right but , and I also agree with you that uh that uh experience is a big thing today times have changed that there are a lot of lot more possibilities today then


than before right if you ask my dad about experience he will say what is that, you know you know I need to feed my family he'll say you know right so today we can afford to think of that lah, but but I still think that both are equally important equally valuable ya


do you agree ya


of course


sure well ya I definitely agree with you in terms of the work experience


uh that you have mentioned regarding your dad right definitely that is uh important lah so uh maybe I should clarify a little bit on where what what was what was where I'm coming lah, okay when I mentioned about experience and uh uh possession right I'm talking about how would one uh


I understood it as how one spend his time or his money in getting right whether it's a great experience or whether it's uh, is uh uh something that uh they would invest that that time or that money into, some possession lah for and and which one is important actually if for me right depends on a few factors


uh like I mention just two three decades ago when we're still uh trying to do well in in in life right when when survival was still, the main thing like when bread was still the the main issue of today , then the the expectation or the the value of uh of uh


gaining something or own owning something is is more important for instance your dad would would would would say that owning a business is more important right , because it's bread and butter lah so the social class right or affordability is one of the determining factor whether experience is more important


or possession is more important okay uh research has found that the lower income group right would rather spend money for example on material possessions like, uh uh property like last time you had to buy a flat right a washing machine right uh things like these


rather than an ecstasy right that comes with the buying of expensive vacation on an island for instance for example if you make a comparison like that because of the social class and affordability because the level of needs is different lah, secondly is also uh depending on the stage of life


that one is in uh the roles and responsibility that one has would determine whether , uh the the experience is more important or, or this uh possession is one important both are as I mentioned both both are valuable both are valuable so you need a bit of both


so for example breadwinners well breadwinners who choose to spend money on essentials like shoes for the kids TV for the for the family right over say a concert ticket or a weekend trip, right because


his role and his responsibility and his priority determines the value of of uh buying something that that that has uh, that meets the needs more than the experience that uh would, would uh the the more than the pleasure that he will derive from uh from getting something else lah so uh ideal experiences are often also uh built or built upon uh material possessions so both are important


uh of course we do not need material possessions for example to get a great experience uh for example uh uh we do not need to possess a boat, a boat or a cruise in order to sail out into the open sea watch the whales for a few days and fish right we don't have to possess we don't have to own that ship we can simply rent a boat


alright and go out in the with the you know on the family trip however if that experience is going to cost us uh the pair of office shoes that we're gonna we're gonna need for the entire year right, then imagine the result right of course we can also say oh we can always not uh own a pair of shoes you can borrow it from an borrow an over sized pair from our buddy you know but then you can imagine the the the the the the the


the uh the pain right of of uh doing doing that everyday right so uh however well I do agree that uh uh however I I will still say that the material possessions, uh offers some form of uh stability lah you know for example buying a property versus renting a property which one will make us feel safer uh


perhaps whereas you may not feel now because you already have a property lah but when we're out of job right for example right uh when we're out of job, do do you think owning a property, would would make us feel safer or renting a property because without a without a property now we have to think of how to pay the rent right but if we already paid up our house then that is already is uh non issue lah


ya so then it also provide some form of uh stability uh uh in this case lah that's what my that's what I think lah, ya experience


, valuable ya


, like I said it all depends my stage of life ah , at this current stage of life right I think uh, uh, I think still it's equally important because for example if I I I would I would I will bring my family out right for a nice meal


but I will I I will I will not be emphasising on the experience I would my my think is is this going to be, feeling this food , is this food gonna be good and nutritious for my girl is this food gonna is is this good is this food gonna be uh gonna be uh harmful or or or or you know not good


so these are the the basic thing I would think of first after that of course I will also think of oh is this place nice is my wife gonna like it you know now my girl also have special preferences you know , so I I I will ask okay do you do you do you think you will you will feel good in this place to eat you know things like that


but my basic thing right is the the basic need lah my my first concern is the basic need so again it's both together, like it's both together I have to take care of the the the the essential and I have to take care of how my wife and the girl feels ya for both and


of course most importantly they must fit my budget you know you know you know must be it must, I must be able to afford the the the the experience lah ya that's the thing yeah,


ya correct correct, , yeah sure sure, correct correct


highest


the getting together right, yeah true, I see, I know right


oh they don't stay with you anymore, !huh! okay


I okay so you all don't dine together as a as a family usually everyday no, oh okay, [oh0


, ya ya ya I'm glad that I'm in the stage now when she's still ya with us and all that ya I treasure it lah I treasure it ya ya


almost I think ya I think uh ya maybe let me, ya maybe let me conclude, by the time I say conclude it's finished


yup yes, part three debate topic three


this one not easy


you are thinking of you are talking about uh the conflict between countries right uh that means you you mention USA against uh, uh this china so you you think that they should be left to sort out uh on on their own


okay


definitely definitely, yeah yeah, yeah so what about if the country's conflict is within itself I mean uh is a civil civil unrest, or there's an there's a upheaval or or there's a revolt rebellion against the current government if it's a if it's a internal conflict


do you think we should leave it to them to uh sort out on their own or do you think uh an intervention will be better


(mmhmm) well okay uh okay right my view is this lah okay , sometimes uh, as uh we have seen in the past few decades lah uh there's there are internal like civil unrest like uh


uh one faction against another causes a lot of of uh a lot of uh fights and uh, weapons are used and all that right so uh external interventions right are a mechanism that uh international community uses ah


for conflict management in within uh india has got the has got the civil unrest right so another country comes in, to assist to help them get out of that of that of that thing lah so intervention effects are determined by motivation right of the intervening party


as well as the effectiveness of the military economic diplomatic initiatives undertaken in the whole process of trying to , uh help them uh resolve the issues that they have internally because there are there cases whereby whereby uh when especially when when a certain conflict right is is is dragged


from very long right it's dragged uh it's affecting the the the people and you hear the cry of the people right, so in some in such cases sometimes foreign countries will come in well very famously you see US doing this a lot iraq iran yemen


you can name it lah lots of such things lah right so , US always takes the initiative to come into that that that thing for good or bad reason lah, but it's not just US alone you see the UN has got the peacekeeping forces right uh in place so that in when in times of such a


such a big issue right happening in any country right they will come in and uh, usually for humanitarian reasons lah, more for the people it's not to sometimes it's not even to take sides you see for example one one faction may come up and rebel against the other the the ruling government


many a times lah so uh and then there's a huge fight and then there's there's a non no ending fight and then that's that's also what happened in in in in in the middle east lah, the the there's there's this principle uh called the the principle of uh non intervention in civil affairs it's an international uh agreeable principle


most country will abide by that however there are exceptions to this uh this uh principle, for example to grant humanitarian aid right and secondly uh to to give technical or economical aid, which is uh not likely to have any substantial impact on the outcome of of the civil war right so


so any any assistance that they prescribe right or is authorised right, and recommended by the united nations they can do it so countries can intervene into a civil affair , right there must be very good grounds but that's this one will be the last resort


of of uh any intervening country that will be the last resort of course usually countries they they intervene because like what you mentioned the economy is affected, there are there are there are some there are some interest there's a some great conflict of interest right involved lah


right but mostly right uh on humanitarian grounds they will send it but even between let's say let's say we take we take it this take this out of the country let's say just between, US and china, for me right I think rather than leaving them to uh try to sort out their differences right


uh it will be great if if uh countries right will take also a a a stand right to go in and, to initiate for example uh singapore uh not too long ago uh hosted this uh north korea south uh this uh korea US talk


right that's a form of intervention there's a this korea were deadlock already they came to a deadlock they cannot move forward, so they need a place of of negotiation so who's going to provide that place is not so it's not so easy as to okay let me just provide my place, because a lot of of there's a lot of complications in in in this in this whole thing but but I'm glad that uh singapore


uh agreed to open up our country to the to to the two heads of states to have a a a discussion which, well according to media had good results lah so so singapore


means singapore played a good part in in uh in in being the mediator so instead of leaving the the thing to them to keep to to to sort it out themselves I think sometimes uh allies or even, countries right can also play a part in helping to resolve the issues right currently uh china and and US is a more complicated one lah


right because there are so many people at stake there are so many parties involved but it's not just china and uh and US you if you look carefully right there's there's russia, there's north korea right that's on the china side right, then on the US side US. is harnessing like the asian countries right


and uh some part of europe so there's a lot of big big powers playing in this and singapore is caught in the middle you know it's a very complicated situation now for singapore so sometimes, when uh when uh when asked to comment right our our head of states ah they


they sweat lah they don't know what to say because what to say you know want to say which side you also you also also it's a it's a it's a huge risk but but I believe sometimes right uh it's good to have uh, intervening states uh the intervening uh countries that dare to intervene


to beyond the negotiation table countries, who has that vision or that or that guts ah, to to be the middleman so that we can come to a more amicable, uh uh state lah rather than you see until now right china and uh US are beyond loggerheads ah


for how long already the past six from the beginning of the year until now leh this thing this thing and it's not an it's it doesn't seem like it's it's ending nor it's escalating in fact, so this very worrisome because it's gonna if this if this continue right many many other things will will will happen also right what do you think uh phoebe


the lowest cost lah


part one debate topic one


okay so uh I will start off by uh reading the question, anything can be considered art but not all art is of equal value so uh I agree with this statement uh firstly, because I feel that uh just about anyone can become an artist


as long as you have the passion the interest uh you can actually showcase your talent in, the various forms of art uh in, which we see at you know art exhibits we have sculptures uh paintings art displays and uh whatever else


so as long as we are given a platform, we can actually pursue our interest in the arts scene, so , you know uh individual artists actually produce uh, a unique kind of art okay uh maybe uh uh one person likes to paint and then the other person likes to


uh build statues and everything so anything can be considered art but can we say that, uh the sculpture uh, is of the same value as a simple painting so that is why I agree that


you know not all art is of equal value because every artwork has its own style its own techniques and, as well as the materials used by the individual artists they are different that's why uh their individual value are different as well


ya that's why I agree with the statement uh and I have, uh several examples of, artists which I wish to further elaborate on my sentiment, but before I do so uh maybe Fizah you would like to add anything or you know ask questions


okay uh so the first artist I wish to elaborate on is uh a graffiti artist, uh name banksy okay he's very popular in the UK


he actually painted, a picture of a girl, with a red balloon okay this painting managed to gain massive popularity in the UK because it uh it was actually part of a mural series


in the year twenty O two, so this painting was actually uh part of, several social campaigns in the UK, for example like the syrian refugee campaign and then we have the uh UK's elections


so whenever there is a social campaign, the artists would paint this, girl with the red balloon at one of the uh popular locations, so that's how this painting actually gained popularity so because of this


in twenty eighteen the painting actually managed to reach, one point four million dollars uh during an auction, okay so , after it was successfully sold


uh for that value one point four million , the painting immediately shredded into pieces because the artist himself, did that intentionally to send a new message okay so from one point four million


the painting shredded to pieces and then it instantaneously became zero dollars, so we see how that uh anything can be a form of art which is a painting can be a form of art, shredded pieces of paper can be also a form of art


but are they of an equal value no one is one point four million and then the other one is just, not it's just uh you know no uh there's no value at all, okay but uh after the whole experience you know obviously there was this controversy around the art scene for that particular incident


so art experts were saying that oh the experience is something new, the artist was trying to send out a new message, okay uh at first the red balloon was, uh as a symbol of hope


for any social campaign the red balloon like symbolises uh hope so when he actually, sorry, K when he actually shredded it


he was trying to send the message that uh hope is in the bin, so that's an entirely new message and art experts are saying that uh okay it should not be zero because there's a new message behind the art itself


so it then managed to to fetch, I think double or even triple its price according to inputs from experts in the art scene, so again back to a point uh from one point four million, to zero and then to two point eight million so it's


uh a different piece of art each like uh a painting and then shredded pieces of paper, and then the entire experience is an artwork art display, that's why uh not all art is of equal value


okay that's just one uh sample, err officer do you have anything to say before I move on


okay uh thank you for your input okay uh yes I agree that uh some art museums actually have uh displays that are not for sale, uh that brings back to the point that , anything and everything can be art but obviously those which have historical


uh artefacts they are of another value, they are they had uh they possess this historical value, which is priceless but some artists they, err pursue their interests in the field to sustain their living


for example err okay uh the person that I just mentioned, uh that artist banksy, he he's a full time artist so he expects, uh his passion to actually sustain his livelihood so without


selling he would not be able to further pursue his interests, and even though the painting did manage to sell for millions of dollars it was not for his own purpose, alone he does contribute to the many campaigns that he


was enthusiastic about, uhuh he supports various social campaigns, uh the syrian refugees and everything so he just contributes some of the finances there so it is also for a good cause that's why, uh it is not just about financial success it is about the


uh the experience as well so whatever that the artist uh wish to, uh achieve like for example this person it's not just for his sustaining of a livelihood but also to channel the finances to the different campaigns that he support in this country


so again uh some have historical value other may have financial value that's why everything is considered art but not all all art can be considered to have equal value, yeah that's my input


should uh jeff anything thing else to add, uh okay uh so maybe I can, move on to the next point, uh there's also another


italian artist uh this was just last year in twenty nineteen, so uh basically he was intentionally trying to create a controversy, for the art scene so it he actually pasted a real banana of a real food onto the wall of the art gallery


with some duct tape and then uh he priced his artwork so called artwork at hundred and twenty thousand pounds, so you know visitors were coming in but they were not making any remarks they were just keeping their comments to themselves, so eventually a person who was really


you know find this art scene absurd he would he took the banana down and he just ate it in front of the uh in front of everyone there, so uh he was saying how can this be art I just ate your artwork, so uh


he was just making a joke out of uh out out of the whole display but then the original artist was saying uh, it is not the materials that I use, it is actually the entire experience you can see the banana uh browning


you can see how people, uh react to my artwork, you can see uh the materials that I use the message that I wish to send it is the work of nature and everything else, so like I said uh anything can be considered art even fruits duct taped to the wall as simple as that


it's considered art but obviously, can we say that this banana is worth, of an equal value to maybe you know famous paintings uh like mona lisa the scream uh and many others sculptures around the world, so obviously they are not of an equal value depending on the materials used the message


the uh skills of the artist (ppc) ya so that's my second point to, further support my uh sentiment that I agree uh, uh anything can be considered art but not all art is of equal value


Fizah do you have anything to say


part, two debate topic two


okay uh I will start of by uh reading the question uh can fantasy books and films offer anything more than an escape from reality, okay I think yes uh fantasy books and films are so much more than just an escape from reality


uh because uh first of all uh, they do not just fill up our spare time with uh entertainment, uh they're not just there for our uh for us to, kill our boredom uh there are actually many lessons that we can learn


the morals uh that we can pick up we can uh teach, ourselves and our kids our friends you know a lot of positivity, which we can apply into real life or there are also certain aspects of negativity


that we can uh remember and so that we can avoid, uh you know in order not to, repeat the same act of negativity into our own real life, so this is actually very true in fairy tales


which are meant for children, in storybooks, that target, audience is uh children, it is uh very obvious, that they offer more than just an escape from reality


there are many lessons that children can learn from the fairy tales, okay uh so before I elaborate uh maybe Fizah has something to add


okay uh thanks for your input uh okay I agree that some uh readers or some uh film viewers, they actually get away uh get too carried away with whatever fantasy life that they watched on screen or about what they read in books


uh but that brings back to my point that I mentioned earlier there is going to be something positive, as well as something negative that is when we need to, instill to our kids that not everything that you hear


uh in movies or you read in books are positive, we need to inform them beforehand that there's always a positive and negative side to this fairy tales, and we need to teach them what is the moral lessons they can learn and what are the negativity that they need to avoid


okay so uh maybe I can just uh elaborate, uh by using an example of a fairy tale which is uh the beauty and the beast okay there's actually a storybook for children as well as


the film itself okay so in uh it's basically, you know uh a beautiful princess marrying a beast that is far from a prince charming, so what can we actually learn from this is actually


not to care wholeheartedly about uh a person's physical appearance, because uh a person's inward characteristics leave a much more lasting impression, and that was what got the princess to fall in love with the beast


uh okay so this positive uh aspect of the storybook we can actually you know teach our kids that, uh not to judge a person by their physical appearance, and we should uh we should not judge anyone physically but we should learn about their character


before judging anyone you know and uh kindness love uh and concern, do not rely on physical appearance and they can actually uh outshine or outperform


physical appearance anytime so even if you are good looking but you have no kindness no love no conscience uh, ya it's actually no point lah having that physical appearance ya so again, they offer more than just an escape they offer moral lessons for us to teach our young


and for ourselves as well not to judge people based on their appearance and to always be kind to others and not, you know simply judge people on what you see from outside, ya that's my point supporting my sentiment


so Fizah do you have anything to say


okay thanks for your input okay uh uh yes uh maybe some people are carried away with the uh, non reality uh because they wish that their life, you know would be better as what is on screen as compared to your current life


uh like uh like you mentioned the grass is not always greener they have to accept the fact but for example uh I have, another uh uh point that I wished to elaborate is the movie legally blonde, okay obviously she lives the high life uh she's a rich kid you know she's trying to get into law school that requires a lot of money


not everyone has that kind of money to go to law school and everything, so maybe from that perspective uh people may be influenced, oh I need to have a a certain status to be one of the cool kids


but from another perspective uh you want to depends on the, audience who actually watch this movie, uh from another perspective you know at the end of the show she actually wins her first case, okay which was not as expected by her mentoruh


uh so the more lessons that we can pick up you know rather than just , the social pressure that everyone's uh everyone who watches it, feels uh we can learn that we cannot


uh judge a book by its cover because uh you know there's this stereotype that goes around saying that uh blondes are dumb, so it's not right and we cannot judge by a person's appearance we have to really let them


explore their capabilities and what they are you know willing to achieve at the end of the day, okay because she really works really hard and you know she tells us that we have to uh work for what we want


and I think at the end of the show she did include that, don't let anyone tell you that you are not good enough so the message that's really good for this uh film is that, don't listen to others even though they bring you down you know if people call you dumb because of your appearance you just shut them off


you do what you would wish to do you know uh you putting work efforts, you be determined and you can achieve your goals one day, so from uh this movie actually offers more than just uh time to kill your free time


ya it's actually more than just entertainment it's a really good teacher, it teaches us uh about some stereotypes in the community today and that, you can prove them wrong by doing what you love


ya so that proves my point that it offers more than anything, and in the first uh something more than an escape it offers us lessons that we can apply onto our real life instead of being uh, uh you are restricted to just our own opinion in this reality


ya, so Fizah do you have anything to say


no


Fizah you conclude


part three debate topic three


okay I'll I will start off by uh reading the question, the arts in our society should focus more on local talent rather than foreign talent, okay I agree with this uh because mainly