having not to experience one so it actually cultivate your brain oh what what can I do if I'm actually in this situation, what should have been done instead okay so, ya from my point of stand it really does offers more than just


an escape to the reality, what do you think <P2>jian siang</P2> (ppc) (ppc)


okay so I get your point saying that movies films or even fantasy books is actually creating a social stigma for, the audience out there, and giving it a false interpretation of what a relationship like what you actually meant it on your analogy


is meant to be like, so I I do agree with your point but one more thing is that what if, what if we imagine, a film or a fantasy books are filled with real life scenario like let's say, oh after a month


john and mary broke up, how would it feel for audience like you and me, okay you know giving this kind of , you know, a very painstaking, fact straight up to the audience


like you know relationship isn't good you know you shouldn't start one if you are not ready, so something that is like what you said a fact like, what if all these director are actually doing it I mean no one will be motivated to read or even watch a film right


so, like we human actually needs a feel to, be motivated in life, but if all these film and, depressing books of what you said is creating a social stigma than a motivation for them to work harder like a relationship goal or something


then what could actually give them the motivation, to do something to improve their current, bad state of relationship or life that they're stuck in currently, do you get what err do you get my point


ya sure sure okay so you okay so previously you actually mentioned


like saying all these social stigma are created because of fantasy films and err unrealistic relationship movies romantic movies and all right, so let's say if the director follows what you said creating a real life scenario full of


real life sad stories like let's say john and mary broke up within one month and the story just ended there and but people actually read books and all to get some to to improve their insights to expand their horizon


okay so let's say if all these are based on you know very, sorrows , reality the hard truth so what else can actually fuel them to improve themself as a person if, there isn't


a good film to or fantasy to, help them to fuel in life, yes uh (ppc) (ppc)


I see so you actually weigh the weighs the, between reality and fantasy okay that's nice okay but , I just feel like can't like, okay since your point is that


the films doesn't actually offers anything more than an escape of reality right that's your stand right, so what do you okay what, what do you have to think about people that actually watches those, movies that are based on


true stories that are being told like more towards like a bibliography okay what do you think about those, on true stories okay (ppc) okay so


okay so recently I have actually stumbled across this, facebook post whereby, okay, it's not films but it's actually a facebook video actually teaches people to, work on their, appearance like let's say


, being more confident, okay this is a video and a movie is I mean a video and a film is actually co-related, but, okay so looking at the testimonial itself from the audience they actually said !hey! this video actually helped me


so I don't see a point of them having to escape from reality when , a film or a video that is made for them to be confident is actually bringing it bringing a reality to them to be more confident it's more like a motivation than them escaping from a reality


ya what stand do you have on this, ya there are loads like let's say a grooming tips on how to be more confident,


it's basically more of the tutorial like let's say they have a a actress and a actor, having a scenario to get it's it's basically a scenario based tutorial lah I would say, ya


okay so but based on the tutorial itself right, he he was actually the one that is in a movie that actually taught people on how to be more confident okay so just the background story he's someone that


survived from a, cliff falling, so from then on he have this experience of going through you know life or death situation and it's where he, unleashes his inner self confident to teach people to live life Fullestly


okay so, what do you what do you think about it like is this like a just a tutorial video or is this just an, an you know a gimmicks for people to


wanting to be more confident, okay


I see okay, so you actually, will not associate, a film with a tutorial like from this, era that we are in since like you know,


like we are in this pandemic where a lot of people can't actually watch a proper film in a theatre so,


I see okay so, besides, okay so let's not talk about films let's talk more about being the, err having a fantasy book I'm pretty sure you and me actually read a fantasy book right, okay so


since you since you actually make a stance saying that fantasy books actually, provides nothing more than an escape, from reality right so how do you actually perceive a fantasy book to be like when you actually read one how do you actually


how does your brain I mean process where actually when you, you know reenact those scenes out,


yes correct


I see okay


part three debate topic three, okay (ppc)


so from this statement the art in our society should focus more on local talent rather than foreign talent, okay so from my point of stand, I do agree to this statement why, its society should focus more on its local talent


okay so beside being the obvious of having to give them a national pride in it, it actually gives them you know, a voice and a platform to express their works okay so let's say if such platform or


opportunity isn't given to the local talents, this would eventually lead to a brain drain okay so you know, , the local people doesn't feel that they have a voice in it, they always feel like foreign foreigners or foreign talent are taking over their place and they do not have a stage to express themself


and even so, government should spend more money on local talent and providing them, a local market for them to tap in okay so I mean, let's say if your country are, very small and there's no opportunity that you could


reach out to more audience I mean there there should be a, a variety show uh a platform that I mentioned earlier on for them to reach out to, a larger audience or a


oversea venture okay but ultimately they should have a base for them to start up and begin with so let's say if a, a market in the I mean in the local market doesn't provide this opportunity to the local artist then it's very very hard for them to express their nationalistic pride and even you know


, giving a giving a, I mean forcing the younger generation to not take up this kind of art courses okay so, let's say if a country


, kept on saying you know you should be creative and you should take up, art course but they don't provide this opportunity for people to venture out then what's the point of, actually you know, having this course in the force first place and not providing the necessary budgeting for the local artist to even begin doing it


hello ya we can ya we can hear you, you got my point right nice


yes


okay okay I understand your point but I do have two, point that I have to address okay so firstly you actually say that , that foreigners should actually come in since like, we since the since I mean we locally are being narrow minded not having them in our country right


so all these are categorised in globalisation where we exchange cultures and even, talents over to teach our stuff, okay but haven't you, haven't you thought of what if we there's this particular day where we forgot our sense of belongings


and we just you know, globalise like let's say we globalise westernise westernise our culture and all so all our talents just you know starts to, venture overseas and we just lose this sense of belongings


of what, it actually should have in our roots, okay so that's my first point of, having, the downside of globalisation so secondly like you mentioned like there's lots of opportunity for them like social medias and all they I mean they could have done that right


but, from my point of stand is really very different like, why don't you say you record yourself on a camera versus you are on a stage itself view of, filled with thousands of hundreds of people, okay it feel very very different


so let's say if, the budget of the, country doesn't provide the local artist this kind of, size audience for them to perform or showcase their talents then what's the point for them to record showing


I mean having an eye of a camera, in front of them only I mean commenting on the social media is very very different from a physical contact, I mean we are been through the you know, the the shift of phase where


technological and, non technological phase okay so basically, both of these phase are very very different and, I would like to hear more about your views


yes social medias, what's the issue you mean, okay so basically you mention like so they have lots of opportunity like they can just do it on social media right to express their talents but this differs from a physical


funding platform, where they deal with hundreds and thousands of people they're having, a pair of eye on them instead of just you know acting out their talent in front of a, camera, okay it's totally totally very different let's say if you are a very


talented guy you probably shiver in front of stage so this platform itself actually allows them it as a stepping stone I'm not disagreeing with you that globalisation is wrong , but a platform or a foundation base should be there for them to


you know go about doing it it's like a stepping stone you know if they can't even handle a small crowd like you say singapore is just a small country if they can't even handle a small crowd in a small stadium what makes them able to handle a big crowd in a oversea venture


(ppc)


I see okay so, social medias like you and me right are more towards okay I will say that the demographics are more towards the maybe the younger generation to the middle aged people like let's say the pioneer generation are not very very


, used to this okay since like there's this technological phase change okay so I know that the government are actually providing them skill future and all to, assist them in improving themselves you know like using computer and all so like


what you said I agree that social media is a great platform to express themself in the, artistry industry, and what, if this skill future will have to be taken away since you know, you agree that a government funding isn't a necessity but these skill future actually belongs to a government funding like


what if there isn't such a funding for the pioneer generation to learn, something that are more technological advanced to improve themselves, (oo) yes


I see so should actually the foreign talent should be given a chance to you know upgrade themselves through this government funding as well, , since what we have been talking is all about local


I see alright thank you so much


topic, debate topic one, anything can be considered art but not all art is of equal value what's your view


okay , okay so <P2>chang wei</P2> uh want to clarify with you uh so you divided, for your point of view art is, separate into two two factors sentimental and treasure


so err I want to clarify err which which one is sentimental and treasure because, you mention art err sentimental art is err looked down upon, it's err indulgent err historical and, most of the sentimental art is more considered to be a


amateur's compared to the treasure so, do correct me if I'm wrong so err, err are you saying that treasure art, err, in terms of this err treasure art this category err the artist adds value to it


to this err treasure art, compared to the sentimental, ya


okay


okay err so how is the arts equal in, in this way, sentimental and the other err arts that you have mentioned how are they, equal, I don't think I've captured that point leh err


ya if you could elaborate ya, oh okay okay you are not, okay okay can okay err so they are not of equal because of err subjective values okay can


err, okay so err when I think of art there's a, a lot of ways to interpret art lah in the, word itself art so err, , and I think of art is not just the traditional sense in terms of err drawings or your music I think art comes in the form of every err


spectrum in what you see like err writing, err philosophy literatures even a more objective kind of err, err topics like science or nature or even dancing so, I feel that there is science in err


every aspect of err I guess profession, so in that way I think art is valued in the sense where err, err these practitioners in the field, they do err, appreciate the art in the sense, where err


err how the art works in the profession lah so for example , err when you think of drawings err, art, it's a bit hard to define lah for them so, err in for artist err who are drawing art they think


err maybe err the way they interpret the meaning behind the art which err maybe ambiguous and, has a lot of meaning err that is a art for them they have a way of err, err, coming to a conclusion of what that art is and then as for more objective kind of err subjects such such as err science you see art in a way where err


in terms of how objective and logical it is so maybe how err the science works with err artistry aspect in this is err, err how err, the maybe in


let's say given just elements itself like ice err going to water and then err evaporate to air so this in form itself is a form of art lah so , everyone won't say it's the same lah because err


because art is or the eye the the beauty is the eye of the beholder so , only people who have, practised this uh field will appreciate that kind of art so in that way I feel, every, err art is equal, when they are in the


when they are practising in that field because they have the perspective to err perceive that art, yes oh okay, yup


(mmhmm)


err how they are equal ah, I'll, I'll try to find commonalities between the two professions lah so, I think a lot of err professions err they require a lot of, err, discipline and err they try to find the the


logical aspects in what they do lah so let's say for a, , dance and compared to err what's that another one, , let's say philosophy for example so dance err there are a lot of ways to see it err in terms of err


when, the people they dance they move err sometimes when, dancers can interpret in a way where when when a person err dance they can err try to convey a a very sad kind of a movement and sometimes


people who don't dance they don't see the sadness in the part, where some who are more perceptive, they do they do err see it, and then err in comparison for a in, a philosophy point of view, if they try to err


write it in terms of a err, a novel kind of way err, when sadness they can use err many forms of err describing their sadness, in the form, some can use err, err what's that err sarcasm some can use a nihilistic ways to to


project their sadness in ways that people will think that, other people who are not practising philosophy will think this is err, err, nihilistic while philosophers might think it other ways then they will think it as a as a sad way to err project their own feelings in a more nihilistic way so if you think it sometimes you have to practise in that profession to actually know what kind of art they project lah in terms of their profession so


ya err that's how I see, err the the, value in art lah for different aspects of the field which is perspective ah, yup


empathy I guess is one of them err err to put put in more accurate I'll say it's like a, appreciation because , unless you are working in that field you wouldn't err, know the details and the hard work that they put in in order to make that


art ah so, like you think err like a scientist when it's you only see the results you only see like the inventions of it, so you don't you don't think about what goes to behind err the scenes when they are developing that err, the invention as it's also same for


music you think of music you just listen to the music you don't really think of what went behind the music what's the process process like so content creators and scientists would probably know at least a little bit of err what goes into the process of developing their creations and their arts in the sense


so err ya appreciation is err something lah that err I think everyone err has err a common with ah ya


okay


okay I'm trying to think it err the way I interpret your question is err, we have this err perception that, results are the, are the what's that called


all that matters results so, the value that err a musician contributes compared to a scientist, err err, maybe parents err or society thinks that, the scientist will


contribute more in terms of value to the society, as compared to a music musician, because err the scientist try to, progress, err and make life, err easier for humans, so when I think of it that way


in terms of err providing value, I think, in order to cultivate a, err mindset that to the kids that, both musicians and, scientists do create their own err, value contribute their value to society


in this aspect I will think err, exposing them to the field is the most important thing, err for the kids err just to let them see how err the music is created and err, err how err maybe err how do you play the chords how do you have to err sing and then how you have to err synchronise your voice with the music the instrument that you are playing and then err expose to the kid err to


the scientist field as well where they had to do a lot of research and papers a lot of trial and errors to really show err err, that it's not easy lah so I think, in the end err


I don't know whether this will cultivate the the habit err not habit the mindset that both do create a great value to society I would say both equally good err but, ya I think exposure and understanding would make the kids more appreciative lah of both professions and


not think the musicians are, err useless lah [orh]


err, if I had to explain that to a child ah I'm not a artist lah so, if I have to explain to them err, maybe I would say, , beauty comes in the form of all shapes and sizes


I don't know err maybe things err a more vague answer will be bad lah, cause err, I try to see the perspective of both, err the people, perceiving painting A to have ten thousand of value


and why painting B only deserves ten ten dollars of value err one way I would say is how err, , the interpretation of the painting maybe the ten dollars ten dollar painting doesn't err provide a meaning and err a


purpose for the, artist to appreciate , err and then, the ten thousand dollars it can be a simple picture like, err, just a blank piece of paper and yet some would say err it's err


nothing it's cheap I can, do that as well but err the, the details it really matters so, it's easy to judge from, err just, just to see just to take a look and say uh it's, I can do that as well but


when you examine the details ah then you will see how err the artist will actually put in the, effort to to say err err how the process is like what they did, what's the rationale behind this painting and


err how it costs ten thousand dollars, so, ya and then err, , ya that's how that's how I would err describe it to someone err and try to explain why a ten thousand painting is ten thousand and why a ten dollar painting is


ten dollars ya


ya it could be it could be because err a person's life is err, they have a lot experiences and then what they've been through how they interpret it interpret, err the world is err


according to their experiences so it's if a artist, has a very comes a from a very abusive background for example a very neglective and a very err disruptive err, upbringing I think their perspective will be very dark and very not very err


ideal for most people, and then they show, they can in they can depict their interpretation in a form of err art and, then we can we as people can see how, err this err


misfortunes of life actually affected this err, artist's err mindset, and err he can, visualise and err, and, and depict his err, way of life into a picture


which is err not something that everyone can do ah which is a which is a, talent that I have to, have to admire lah, even in that way ya so the background is is very important


part, part two debate topic two


okay I


get your point of view err, ya they do err if watching movies err films sometimes they a character is err morally black and white and err, morally grey not black and white sorry err grey so you really question


whether, err what they are doing is right or wrong and, whether you will do it if you are in their shoes ya I agree err, err err but there there's the, other side of the coin that I also want to bring a point to this err


okay first the phrase err can fantasy books and films offer anything more than an escape from reality , there's a word for this err it's called delusional, err so okay, ya while there're ya I do recognise there are benefits of


err err watching series and learning a lot from it while, err this I can acknowledge err the other point I would like to err point out is , the unrealistic expectations that people have when they watch films and err fantasy books err this is especially so for romantic dramas and I don't know about maybe fantasy books but more to the err romantic films so err have you ever thought of


err, when you were a kid you you see couples in films and then err you develop this err , very err isolated view of how a relationship should be like so I mean do you agree that a all relationships are err depicted err truly as the way err films are depicted I mean I don't think so I don't think err real life relationships are err


err exactly how movies portray it to be so I think this sets up a very very dangerous err, expectation for for children or even couples err, how a relationship should function and err I even have a research study on this so


err just hold on ah the research study err ya err, according to digital scholarship, err, this have mentioned that, err


err a child's romantic I quote a child's romantic imaginations become resource resources used later in life to satisfy experiences and shape understanding of the child's personal relationship as a result of their, ubiquity mass media portrayals can become spectators priming model for romantic dealings with others so


what does this mean it sets up a very err it sets up a precedent that, err a relationship should err their relationship should be the way err err medias and dramas portray it to be and anything else that err


err that, goes away from that err depiction it's they will probably think that the relationship is wrong and I think this is very very err harmful for a relationship and for youths ah in general, ya so what do you think about this


, the way I'm thinking err, your question is err, wait can you explain it again ya I need to, yup yup


okay


err okay so first of all a movie based on reality err if it's based on reality I don't think, either one not a lot of people will watch it or number two, , maybe err it has to be sensationalised in a way to be appealing


to err to the audience, so because reality is often more disappointing lah and and I would think a lot of people watch movies, just so they can, escape reality, and then err


indulge in err fantasies lah so , err I will never think that, err, err movies based on reality is is a, is a, is a good thing lah so, because there's always a happy ending and then when I think of happy ending no the not every story has a happy ending


so I I'm a bit of doubtful lah of this err narrative of movies basing on reality I mean it maybe there there is some films err, that are based on reality and then they stay true to actual stories of err what they're based on but


so far I haven't seen any so I'm very sceptical of err, err movies that are err, err portraying real err err, stories ah ah I would like to see and then make it an entertaining way I think it's a, err


it's something that they have to give up lah the movie it's a err conundrum because err if you want to stay true to the narrative of err the story that you want to base your film on err eh you have to sacrifice entertainment so it's either entertainment or reality so which which one do you want to choose


yup


err if it's, those TV series or movies that are based, they always says err based on based true stories I'll be


I'll raise my eyebrow a little bit lah because it's like they have to sensationalise it in a little bit lah at least I don't know how much they sensationalise but I think they do have to sensationalise and make, it a bit more entertaining than it actually is in order to you know attract the audience that they want to attract so err I mean


ya I'm a bit sceptical lah when they say that so unless I really delve into the the the the story that they're based on, I would ya not be, maybe it's entertaining but it's probably not that true lah so, ya I wouldn't


, okay okay


, err so the video is about err their looks is it, is it err ya what's the


okay err, so this is a movie or a tutorial, both I don't know okay


err if it's I don't know if it's a tutorial I think it's real because err, because you want to let's say a tutorial on how to cook eggs you want I mean you want the eggs to be cooked uh if you want your your viewers to, cook the egg and not screw it up so I would think tutorial should be real ah then again I don't consider tutorials a film because err


when a film I will think of a narrative with a introduction body conclusion all of those points and their they are I think they're completely different ah tutorials and, film so err ya tutorials are a lot if not the realest thing lah that you will see compared


to a film ya


okay, okay okay gimmick to be confident err


no I think this is more reality but then again I still stand by the point that this is not a film, I mean maybe film in the past few years err film the word film has err the meaning of it has err expanded to not just a narrative kind of a video


so I don't know but to me a film must have a a actor they must have a like a narrative ah for me so err but, I mean if a tutorial err offers reality to how to be confident err even if I've a


gone through a lot and lost a lot of err, people or err, how I've bounced back from err my struggles ya I think it's good lah if you are truthful, err, and be real with yourself ah but I don't that's reality I will like to portray and


instead of the films which is err, a bit more different lah compared to the tutorials, yup


err, I mean when I think when I mean the topic is all about art lah so err art you think of creativity something that is err not tangible not real err


ya so in that sense not closely related to the topic so because I think fantasy books and films together they have a genre that they are closely related with ah which is err


some fantasy aspect and some are fiction, err aspect to, it as compared to a tutorial, which is err like how you how you actually deal with it lah with a, err actual err advice that is err more applicable


to a viewer ya, (mmhmm) okay ya


(mmhmm)


err no I give more credit to fantasy books compared to films but it's still it doesn't offer much lah to compared to an escape, err I mean err compared, to films err in this way because err


fantasy books they do err, offer a lot of descriptions in that sense but, in terms of how they want to because you you need because you don't have visuals for the as, compared to a film so you need to compensate with err describing


the details so that err the reader can visualise what is going on if not it's not err easy to err to see err what's happening ah in the story so err fantasy books err ya I still, whenever I read it it's just err, err oh


how they describe it in detail and, then err, I don't really think about it after that afterwards I just either go back to sleep or I just go about minding my own day lah after reading a fantasy book, err nothing more lah other than the description of the


characters yup


part three debate topic three


okay err so


err, arts and societies should focus more on local talent, for national pride voice to express themselves brain drain and err, more opportunities funding for locals to put themselves out, there okay first err to talk about arts err


hello eh can you hear me, err can you hear me, err yes err yes yes yes can hear oh <P2>chong wei's</P2> disconnected hello hello


yes I can I can, hold on ah


hello can can you hear me ya I can hear you all


okay okay can sorry ah err err, oh ya ya everything err I heard I heard everything, err, okay can err okay let's to start off, err


only to only allow locals to express their art form in singapore, I find that, it's a bit narrow minded lah because how is art any creative if you do not allow all forms of ideas from various background to contribute in to the arts you know singapore is I mean it's a very small country lah let's


face it it's over six million population, if you want to be creative in the country you know try to promote err creativity for singaporeans how can six million people, how creative can it be six million compared to the


wider pool or billions around the world, I mean if you want creativity err, with six million against six billion I think the odds are the six billion are going to be better off lah if you want to talk about how creative their output is so


err so, even singaporeans I think from young they are drilled, from err with a mindset that, their their only way to success is education and anything else apart from education is secondary or even obstructive to them so


their peers their teachers their employers err everyone they love to remind them that uh you need to study well unless you want to be a cleaner, so err, I, I think singaporeans they do have some creativity but because of this err culture that we have err of study study study where get A's get A's we oppressed it to the point that err when we need to be creative we kind of


we kind of shook our heads and err be a bit lost ah when we need to be err creative err <P2>chong wei</P2> you mentioned about err, having more opportunities for locals I think err if you really want to


put yourself out there do you really need the opportunities provided are you gonna let the government tell you whether you are going to, err do what you really want or not I think if you are really that passionate you will just do and put yourself out there what err in however ways you can like now we have social media


err I think that's not an excuse lah for anyone if you really want to express yourself creative in a creative manner like err maybe your arts or maybe err your musical err, performance I think you can actually do it through social media even people who


err who start off little like justin bieber a lot of people they go through social media and now you see they're doing really well so I think you shouldn't let the government decide or even the society let you decide whether your creativity is err


err, your your creativity is not enough or it's not creative enough it's not realistic, so and, another point I want to take out that, you know, it's not just my mindset err and my perception that singaporeans are not creative I think firms as well I saw err


err, a article by reuters they say that firms often complain about, singaporean staff lacking the creativity at work and then err actually err having a lot of err having more err migrant work err immigrants into the country actually they can help us with creativity as well


err with err because of their perspective and their backgrounds that they come from so, err in order to be a global hub for, for singapore and do well in in the economy I think singapore should put themselves in this way and then


attract a lot of foreigners into the country and perhaps I hope, the foreigners can teach singaporeans a two, that, that education is not everything ah creativity is also very important, and I think foreigners can do they they can play a part in this change lah and future err young singaporeans can can err can see that it's not just education lah other aspects of life really can really make a make or break your your future lah


okay


(mmhmm) (mmhmm)


wait can you emphasise more on the the third question I don't get it so okay social media and err the lack of funding wait what's the


err what's ya ya what do you mean, yup (mmhmm)


(mmhmm)


okay I think I think I get the question okay err so the first point err err that, I want to err tackle is the sense of belonging err the sense of belonging, okay singaporeans err, how do I put this err


okay sense of belonging singaporeans err I I'm not looking at that point lah because I'm my view on this is just the arts, itself and not the other err


disadvantages of err bringing more local talent, err in singapore so, err that I'm not too sure of err err how it will affect I mean after all, singapore is a country full of immigrants they are based on err


immigrants err coming in and we are a very cosmopolitan err country and not very err, homogenic ya homogenic country so err I, I think things will change lah a lot of err


throughout the times so I don't think singaporeans will lose their sense of belonging as a matter of fact I think immigrants err coming into singapore and share their art sharing their art in singapore will, probably encourage singaporeans to err share their own form of art their singaporean art because they see uh other immigrant sharing their own art I think this will actually err make them more err proud and they want to want to express their own art err art manners as well so


I don't think they will really lose their sense of belonging it I will just say, it will really encourage singaporeans ya and then as for the westernised part I don't I am not encouraging err the westernisation, for singapore err when I talk about err foreign talent is not just western err nations itselves so err it's all over the country I'm not err just stating err #ang moh# people coming in err because I want err ideas and arts from all over all over the globe


so ya and then for the last question err the last part that I want to hit on is the the lack of physical funding, okay err, for this I disagree in err in this sense uh I think if you are just starting off


err you should be, performing or at least exhibiting your art err your artistry practices in a more humble settings so I think social media is the perfect way to do it because you can have a simple equipment just your phone and err ya maybe your phone ya phone and cameras you can really


show your talent so, if they do recognise you I think even without the, government recognising even, brands err, social maybe not social media, brands err brands such as, I don't know what name I can think of err that


I think sponsor lah maybe sponsors will, reach out to you and then really fund what you err your passions are and I don't think I mean now you look at err creators such as jian hao they are he's really successful I think he started on very humble beginnings so he's a very good example of how err err the


people who really want to take on art should be like even though I don't like his content but I really respect what he does, so err I think there's nothing wrong from starting err on a humble and more modest background you don't really need a funding if I mean if you are given a very err intimidating stage like having a a


a place where a lot of people are watching you I think that really err hurts you you can you probably won't be able to perform well even if you really wanted to because you are so err err so stricken by the fear of the what's that called, the audience that are all staring at you so ya these are my points


okay


, I don't think funding would, completely be wiped out lah from the government because even if the government really doesn't want them to err doesn't want to


promote the artistry err industry there will probably at least be some tokenism to say oh we've done something about it so just here a few millions or something so, I ya I think I really encourage the point where you don't need the government to tell you what you can do so if you really want to do it just go be brave and err


and do and go and try out you know especially especially for the young ones as for the old ones I think, if they want to try go ahead and err I think for this part yes I do agree that maybe the government should put a little bit more err funding on them because err they are not very sure of how to use the equipments like the smart phones ya so I think err in this area ya err maybe a little bit more to


give them the fundamentals to start off err like how to use wifi err social media, and I think if you have that it's err, you can put yourself out there just by with your phone your wifi and your facebook, and youtube


err foreign talent ah err, , for this aspect no but it's still, I think we still should allow more, err foreigners to come in lah


maybe if I have to put in any money for the local talent it will be the the older ones ya


debate topic one, okay so our topic ya our topic one is about compassion right so, okay maybe I will start lah I feel that one don't need to have that compassionate


feeling because it is something, that has to be has to come up naturally and it's actually quite subjective so uh on what aspects we need to be on compassionate because uh there are many factors that can


affect one to uh uh the one's ability to be, compassionate such as like stress tension exhaustion life experience ya so I feel this physical exhaustion also can lead to diminish ability to to feel empathy or to feel compassion about for others


what's your opinion on that


ya but what if you yourself uh dude are like lack of love like since you mention of love right lack of love they are having some difficulty having yes


ya I think it's different when you receive it than you being compassionate to others, because it has to begin with yourself so if you yourself are feeling negative, yes, so if you yourself are feeling negative right uh it's actually quite hard to


to uh give, be compassionate to others because it has to be genuine it has to be you have to come naturally lah, so I don't really quite agree that we really have to be compassionate it and also it doesn't give any benefit actually


if you don't feel you don't use you don't feel fatigue I mean uh you have to keep on caring for people


okay what if you yourself like are I mean exhausted


with life I mean life life problems all that I don't, ya so precisely so when I said it's different when you receive and you are the giver


ya, so if you're talking about I mean an aspect of we as uh the giver to show compassion I don't agree because it has to be natural lah


ya so individual there's I mean people face different problem in life so ya you may say that when we are having some problem


it's we feel that we feel that we actually need compassion from others, but sometimes eh I think I feel compassion has to be two ways,


ya but whether or not that person is being genuine or not is another story lah so, ya lah it's quite subjective lah so it it really depends on who who is the person you're talking to you're confiding with ya


(hmm) okay


because there's uh so many exhaustion now that, will lead that that actually negatively impact lah the ability of someone to be compassionate they can be emotional, exhausted it can be physical exhausted it can be mental exhausted so


(hmm) okay ya but ya like I'm ya I mean that's your opinion lah but for me I I really don't agree because uh I


feel that you need to, feel it you and it has to be natural if I I I don't agree then I don't think so I can be compassionate towards others


it has to it has to come naturally lah like I say ya oneself have to see who who you show compassion to and on on ya on what aspect


there's always compassionate towards yourself or towards others so I, still believe that you have to do self care lah you have to be compassionate yourself then you can be compassionate to others


but but, it but it can be quite tiring you know to to me constantly show compassion to others if the person itself


is not feeling feeling it so like that's why I mention it has to be a two way channel so if the other person, close close like don't accept feel that you are intruding into my space for example


so, the person who give the compassion I mean can be quite tiring lah !aiya! so that's why I say you have to be two ways you have to come naturally ya otherwise very exhaust


very tiring you know to keep on show compassion to others I think, it'll be good if you do self care,


maybe uh like I said so is like the I think it's like uh in the, ya individual individual how what I mean life experience lah actually can contribute to all this onto on like to how how they feel about compassionate


what if you I mean attend to this person this person say you don't understand how am I feeling so ya, ya ya


I mean if that person is quite negative let's say #ah la# you don't you're not in my shoe you don't understand me so ya so it can be quite tiring right to hear of these negative things


I don't have anymore point point for this I think I've said enough as in ya so that uh that's that's all that I can think of


okay for for for me in in ins, sure, okay so for in summary for myself I feel you know I recap again so compassionate has to be come naturally from your within yourself


you it has to be naturally cannot be forced it has to be two way channel , and they actually there's no benefit of being compassionate because you yourself up


down with your own life problems stress tension so I feel you you be compassionate to yourself, ya so I don't I don't agree


so erica ya of course


I think you mention you mention earlier on about nurses, has to be compassionate with their patient all that


so so that one is quite subjective lah so that's their job, just their job you see so they have to care for the patients


, ya but like as I repeated say again uh it has to come naturally so if that day the nurse is having their bad day ya so ya is the act of care care to the patient


so the I think because they they feel that it's their job so they're forced they are they're forced to be compassionate smile fakely all that ya


it can be quite tiring every day smile smiling at their patient


part two debate topic two, ya


, ya but reason being why must we be constantly I mean we have to persevere because of


okay but how do we actually encourage, our kids to persevere


ya so because is we we have to teach them but you know the generation now everything is like, being is readily for them, so they don't really they don't really know what we go through last time you know like


ya but, ya but they they need like the justification why why must we persevere just to get that stuff


I mean perseverance I feel I mean should parents should encourage lah from from young but then but then it's like you need to tell them because they don't have the


experience of like falling down like I mean as in sorry as in failures in life ya unless when they they go up so for us maybe we we can relate to it but not to, them persevere I feel must be ready to accept failures in life then be able to stand up


stand up and move forward again and then fail again and stand up and move forward again, for for current for current context quite hard to for the for us to


tell our child lah, so but if you mentioned about us being persevere we can relate but not for the current generation so it's quite, hard, for you to encourage in your child I feel


if you are talking about that context of encouraging children lah to have that perseverance, maybe, perseverance to them is the the only thing that we can think of is like study hard study hard then, then you can uh get good results ya but in life aspects a bit hard unless they experience it themselves


some privilege maybe ya


ya but then is we have to give them like example you see so it's it's quite hard for them to relate lah so that's where I'm coming from it's like you ya you can tell them


you need to uh work hard you need to suffer so that you can, you can actually gain gain something better in future


so that's why I why say when you say perseverance in studies that one okay lah easy to kind of tell them but in terms of life experience uh unless they see what the parents face and can relate to it ya


okay


but uh I think they kids nowadays they need something concrete like they really see then they can relate otherwise they we really cannot relate to it, ya that's, I mean uh okay that's that's a side for uh parents encouraging child be persevere so when you talk about a contacts of adult I mean in work life ya so I frankly feel that


to persevere to like for example you want to climb the ladder the proper ladder uh, you really have to take someone's will to really work hard uh not to be calculative, you know some some people they'd they they want to see the monetary first then then they they want to work more they did they are they are


they are not so not not all are, very persistent like uh they they can like take it take all the uh extra all that to prove, to prove that they can do it so ya so


at because as as generation grows lah is or not only not only the school children even the working adults nowadays cause the younger generation, now , I mean sad to say lah they have this self entitlement self entitlement uh feeling that they should they should be rewarded that's it lah ya so


uh if you talk talk about the current context for even school children working adult you're talking about this uh strawberry baby the generation, a bit hard to encourage perseverance in them cause to ya because of the self entitlement


ya passion yes, mean I need to be patient enough to to see the success lah I mean for for working adult I think it's promotion lah promotion is the goal for them


ya ya but but that one that one related to


I would I think our generation and earlier we have that mindset, I I'm not I'm not I'm not being, negative about the current generation but that's what I've seen lah majority of them that self entitlement they feel that they have done


a lot for the department so they should, so they they should ya they, they feel that they have done a lot uh they have contributed a lot they should be given


like promotion all that, so they if if, let's say you give them a let's say uh one staff uh resigned so we kept uh and manpower I mean recruitment is


freeze so usually they don't, have that perseverance how to say more of like uh can, can just just do it just double up ya because they're a bit cooperative


I mean that's my point of view about, but because perseverance I feel that someone really have to learn, uh from dark arm from uh you know like from failures then they lift them up and learn


again so I think for us maybe we have that feeling like why last time we, didn't we we didn't work hard we didn't learn like study properly, ya


is lacking lah is lacking


usually purpose I mean the sandwich generation lah like us when we have kids and we have our elderly ya we I think we can relate to all


ya, (hmm)


that mindset of give up


(hmm), ya, cause you need to stay resilient at all times lah you have to be have confidence ya it takes a lot


of uh strength in yourself to, I I I don't say that I don't agree but like I say because if you are talking about a context of now it's quite hard because they cannot relate to it ya


cause I've seen I've seen a lot in, the younger generation in the working life lah, so they if work I mean extra work a bit they will complain so


they can they I don't know I feel that, they don't have the drive to to, really like uh persevered through their challenge through the challenges uh pampered pampered is the word


ya so I guess


I guess I'll to encourage children it has to be we have to find a ways a creative ways lah to instill this ya perseverance like I give their example but it has to be uh


ya we have to be very creative to to make them understand what is it all about, ya it's actually more of like character building lah ya you it cannot be done uh but through the books all that they learn ya is a really character building how the parents mold them


okay for my side yes I do agree it has to be encouraged but, err depends on what situation and


and, ya on like how how how, creative or how how do we uh we must find a creative way lah to to instill this perseverance uh attitude in where I mean schoolchildren working adult I mean even ourselves lah


okay uh okay that's we already touch on like school children working adult then


maybe, I don't know what other


ya, but it's only the the life life situation that change changes the way how people see it lah


ya lah they must have that growth mindset lah so is like when anything bad things happen to them they really cannot give up


they must uh they must think about a long term goal like move towards the goal don't do things halfway ya


part three debate topic three, okay so our third topic is on the key criterion for good government is how well the economy is managed ya


ya is this a fair assessment


I feel uh not only economy, it has to be , fair as in the good government must must, they are not only economy economy is one of the factor but uh


from a good government has to be uh, maybe really practice when they said democratic they really have to listen to, uh their I mean the residences' opinion


ya whether will they do good to the I mean the fellow countrymen not only, to not only economic growth for business actually the recent COVID


COVID uh as in uh happen in singapore is one good example of, hello can you hear me


oh okay, ya so the the the criteria economy is one of the factor lah but uh


uh not that's the not the only that's not the only key lah they they need to listen to like I say lah they have to really practice the the word the definition of democratic


, okay but how well the economists manage is one one thing lah whether whether it base because a good government is actually based on the ability the transparency ya


ya lah I mean the stability of that ya but like I said I don't I don't disagree that ya economy is one of the key but I said that's not the only key criteria lah so that's the ya


ya cause, they also have to have like a fair treatment towards everyone ya that's why I say the definition of democratic needs to be how to say like uh they really have to listen to the people on the ground lah


since just now we talk about compassionate at the first topic ya so they have to be compassionate with their citizens, ya so if you see is this a fair assessment good government is on how well is the economy is managed I say yes but ya and this not the only


ya, because I feel that strong strong [loh] also is one thing


ya because economy is manage well meaning must be free from corruption all those stuff, ya I mean


I mean with the with the COVID now ya lah they kind of like tap on on the reserve right so finally the reserve is being used


but okay but the thing is okay economy you you mention


because of other countries right


you mean the you mean the reserve lah, I mean this this this kind this kind of approach lah that they have


okay


okay I kind of agree if you say about the singapore approach of ya I mean tapping on the reserve to help the I mean the fellow countrymen ya but then


there are so many aspects like for example this COVID right is quite I mean close to us right , I feel the the I I don't know a lot of people lah actually actually disagree about


the early, how to say the you know the phase the phase does the circuit breaker phase, to actually resume resume this social outside as in


people can go out and dine in or that maybe due to economy lah affect affect a lot of businesses so,


like you mentioned lah if the economy is not is I I how to say is economy is affected then business is affected, then government don't don't have revenue then they cannot help us also first


they I think they have touch tap on the reserves quite a lot lah this time around, and then we have, and then in singapore also ageing population is


quite quite a lot ya so ya I kind of agree lah the the key, criteria one of the key criteria is actually


the economy, disagree about the ya


true true true and that mean it's true in that aspect lah but then uh is quite risky for because the community numbers also increasing right now so there's ya so there's there's good and bad lah


ya but


because we I mean some are some close example that we can see is our neighbouring country also we also don't want to mention ya so their economy initially was quite bad so


, so like I mentioned another other criteria is they really need to practice the democratic lor you really listen


oh others ah, who


related to money lah


ya so the thing is medical costs in in singapore is


okay ya, ya you you mention about the plight of people is always related to money ya the thing is okay it has many contributing factors lah one is uh the standard of living here is pretty high


because singapore sad to say we don't have natural resources so we really depends highly, on partnership with I mean our neighbouring, countries all that uh then they


say they don't have self sustaining revenue so no choice they have to increase things like you know like ERP transport all those stuffs to generate revenue then, also our CPF to do investment ya but then indirectly our medical cost increase then


then uh, ya so I I do agree lah economy is the main main key, for a government but then they also have to relook at the


the soft how to say that the uh, the soft aspects of the reason because they there's also complains about uh not enough jobs for the locals because there's so many foreign talents here


because uh, singapore has to maintain their good tie relationship with all the ASEAN countries like I mentioned, because they do not have natural resources so there's like a advantage or disadvantage about this lah


so there there will be continuous people having plight about financial because of all these factors, but uh we are grateful lah that singapore economy is quite stable so


I kind of agree lah that they are one of the these but then you also have to tackle the the other aspects ya


they,


money ya money is important but like they really have to listen uh the ground lah listen to the ground because uh ya cause so many dissatisfaction also not good for ya


I, ya because of this because like I say about the increase uh medical cost cost of living HDB price all those stuff ya which like I say because they don't


don't have a self sustaining uh natural resources that they so they have to increase all these to to have uh revenue to generate revenue, ya


okay, they debate topic one uh


okay debate topic one we have to restart again, (mmhmm)


okay, , the my opinion compassion to be compassion is a must that comes within uh a person uh because you know compassion is actually to recognise the suffering of others and to make uh it's actually to help others which is in distress


so compassion is also actually uh uh what is it call the expression of love to those who actually suffering,


okay, uh, but if you give love to people do it to someone you definitely will get you know there's a self uh achievement even though like it's like the more to feelings


that you will feel that achievement there so you will feel better so actually actually compassion, is to reduce suffering, in the first place so even if like no person saying, sorry sorry


can hear the aeroplane so what what were saying oh okay compassion actually reduces suffering so even like you are not the one who receive you're the one who who is the giver uh it somehow also make you feel better about yourself


, doesn't give any benefit I think that one is uh I I very disagree on that, ya because like what I mentioned


like what I said is like compassion is somehow like you do you you show love to others so uh you


definitely you will receive feedback from the other person and uh you'll feel better about yourself lah you better about you yourself and the person that you actually you show your empathy to,


because if you are if you are feeling like that I mean you sure you want someone actually show concern to you show the compassion to you so


but this feeling I think, is a must that someone must have is a must


ya compassion okay compassion because I think you're talk ya ya uh compassion I think must be two ways because it's actually like literally means is like suffer together what what I feel lah the meaning of compassion


is different from empathy you see so , compassion is you have to feel compassion because is like those feelings and thoughts include the desire for help to help others


so if you help others I mean someone will you will need everybody to have this feeling, so that even if you neither one who did like the one that you know you are you are the one who did it someone would will have to give it to you or like you know like you said that uh no one forced but you will just get it naturally like that so everyone naturally must have his compassion feelings compassion attitude


true


, because if you practice act of kindness I mean if everyone do their part it will be easier that way you said so if everybody say that encouraging words


uh it'll be everything will be positive


actually actually is not difficult to show compassion or even a smile also


is an act of compassion, open the door for someone also act of compassion you know it's not it's not that difficult to smile to someone right I mean just smile is a very easy thing


so do you think that compassion is not a must uh to have within someone


because I believe that you know this being compassion uh being the uh, being compassionate you can actually uh like educate yourself so you know you will come naturally like maybe one day like you wake up on sleep and you think that okay today I'm going to be good and I'm gonna smile


and you know on the my way to work so tomorrow I try again and the next day and you know naturally it will come within yourself, so, naturally you will you know every day wake up you say okay today I'm gonna to encourage someone to do something good uh I'm going to be you know I'm going to to open the door for someone so I think all these are acts of compassionate lah compassion


but at the end of the day you are going you know if you eat them we always have to be compassionate I think at the end of the day, so, that people that we can live happily


everybody will be positive an act of compassion is a very positive thing thing to do to have,


I think even if you don't necessarily see yourself


that way I I bet you are actually a compassion compassionate at least some of the time of the day okay with like you know certain people in your life with your close friends all, or your children maybe


, ya I, I mean you said not to everyone right, but


I mean, because they think that uh like what you said just now is is tiring but we should always be compassionate is like ya you said that it will be tiring to everybody but is I don't think like you know you need to be like to everyone I mean


in your life every day maybe to your to your family members to your, close friend uh you need to have this compassion feelings towards them at least you know, because I think compassion can be thought uh as a mental state


uh like orientation toward suffering on your own or others, you know , so like bringing attention uh of people suffering I mean if you see someone is suffering definitely you will that one would bring attention to you right


, it's just that you you just need to be there for them you need to do like I mean you don't need to like, uh like be there


there and like like feed them or shower them or something like that I think you just need to be, there, listening so they will feel better, better


yes yes of course uh, uh is just that you don't need to I think lah I feel that you know you just you because some some people they are suffering and they don't know how to actually


show you what do actually do they really want so as a person I think you can actually be there for them like maybe if they don't want to talk maybe you can bring coffee for them or, bring you know like cake bake cake you like baking right so you can actually bake cake for them so ya all these are show of


kindness to help others


uh okay so my turn right okay ya so I feel that uh we always have to be compassion we always have to and we have I mean like if we we don't


as we born with this feeling right I also think that you'd have to slowly, uh practice it every day it's like like what I have mentioned to <P2>ah long</P2> just now, uh being compassion is not like it's not that difficult is like


you wake up from your sleep and you, tell yourself that okay today I'm going to smile on my way to work I'm going to uh open the door for someone who actually need, you know don't have their hand to hold the handle to open the door so I'm going to do it for them so all these are act of compassion so I think if daily you you do this uh you practice it every day uh even if it's not like you know you it will be uh it will become a norm for you one day to to have this feeling of compassion


uh in order for us to be happy in this uh tension world right now, uh I think uh being compassion helps a lot ya so that's it I I I really go for being compassion


being compassionate okay I'm done with my point, oh personal example can uh


what uh err, okay some, yes, uh


but their job is not is not being I mean is is not necessary for them to feel the compassionate uh you know the, compassion for their patient they just okay they need to you know make sure that they eat every day they eat uh they they taken their medication uh but I


feel that, that , ya that's why that the thing is like you know they have to they have to have this feeling of compassion because uh it's not just you know taking medicine uh will make you feel better you when you are happy and you're around the positive people you will feel better even though you are sick


you get what I mean ,


but I think there's uh we must have these we must always be compassionate to others


in order for you to feel better about yourself I mean it make you feel better I think you have to always have, be compassionate,


no more already


uh part two debate topic two, okay so we are talking about perseverance always be encouraged should perseverance always encouraged so what is your opinion of perseverance persistent in doing something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success so should we always encourage that of course yes we should we must


because of in order for you to achieve success there's nothing comes easy like our parents always teach us you know nothing come easy so you must Tahan you must you know you must !oops! I'm talking singlish


sorry so we must actually keep on doing striving for what we want so that is called perseverance right am I right and be persistence so whatever you know the quote that you always see in IG or FB you always like you know perseverance will give you success and everything so I think that somehow it's true


how to we encourage our kids uh err


ya that's the thing


that's that's the thing I think for kids right uh like what you said like ya now I also agree that nowadays kids like, can get easily can get whatever that they want easily so uh from young actually you have to teach them reward


like you know you have to suffer now and you will get what you want later, , why why we need to get


so, so you think that perseverance don't need to be encouraged is it no need to be encouraged is uh am I right


, that's why the more that that like why you say I agreed because I agree with you because of the kids you know nowadays uh I mean the part of like what what you have mentioned like the kids nowadays they are so they're not so uh


uh ya ya that's why that that's the more uh you know because of that the more that you actually should encourage them that you know to you have to the perseverance is uh, uh they have to persevere more to get what they want and to be successful


because I ya because I read uh, okay my okay ya the phone right okay because I uh,


maybe maybe like for kids right for our kids generation what we can do is, to make them to to to encourage them to persevere in study first


to study and then after that slowly that one they can you know actually uh, learn and sooner or later they they can persevere in life to achieve more success not only about study uh about any other things you know


so have to start slow lah to start on study first and then slowly you know on the, mostly what kids are study only lah then after that the job that they want uh maybe they want to do, business so slowly lah from study first we have to encourage them and then uh after that later soon soon or later will be getting some


, actually


so so when when you're talking about perseverance here right I mean uh is it because of the is it is it like something got to do with like passion


right right passion right


what what I feel about you know uh if like you you you can, you don't encourage perseverance it's like my biggest fear actually right is like, I'm dying with regret of not knowing of what I can do


or how far I can stretch myself so you know I maybe you know somehow like I I'm not knowing I don't want to be regret like not, knowing like what I could have, accomplished is like is


but did you know but I didn't I I'm not like actually I was scared uh, I just like why I never you know how how come I never work hard enough, how come I never persevere more uh so like I don't want these these are regret you know you get what I mean right so


no but did but but you know but you put like our parents last time,


ya ya I #belum buat air# you Tahu, , tap okay sorry okay then I know what we're saying


I cannot hear you


, , but that one is uh I mean like like that that that you know the more that, actually you would think that you'd need to encourage perseverance and instill this perseverance in our, kids' generation right because I think like uh


ya it's lacking now so that's why it needs to be encouraged more I feel lah,


because I feel like you know some people like most of people just give up they don't have I mean uh the younger generation uh I mean I don't know I feel like all the generation lah some lah some, like give up when they are just about to achieve success like like actually uh I am uh I have online business right


so for a start you know for a business person for a start is not easy is actually terribly difficult but because if no one like if I have the, the the the attitude, the mindset of giving up I don't persevere enough no one encouraged me uh I think I will I not I know it has been like almost five years now that I am doing my business solely alone I mean I don't earn anything anywhere so I think is I will have given up


long time ago you get what I mean so, , , correct so that's why perseverance always


pampered uh pampered pampered, so that's why we have to instill uh this attitude in our in our children so that uh you know these uh perseverance attitude are not going to to die


for the next generation


true


okay five more minutes so we, okay then summarize right, okay so I start first uh so uh


okay I I think perseverance always must be encouraged uh because most people actually give up, e uh when they are actually about to success to succeed and if you've never persevere enough, you wouldn't know how's how far you can stretched uh how to


be I mean like you cannot give up easily, so I think we must, uh, uh we have our perseverance have to be encouraged lah, so that's all from my side


it's okay it's okay


actually actually, what's it called uh actually I think everyone know that you know you actually have to, uh go, positive on this perseverance because like you know actually like uh I I actually uh read up


about this perseverance before when you all give me the topic right so it's like everything when I google is like you know perseverance is never give up never give up (UNK) so all these actually the phrase of, never give up is is still it ask from many many many years ago since we were young


, because the it doesn't matter you see uh it doesn't matter whether you persevere enough to be successful you know some people like really put in effort uh you know you know some people are not born to be bright they


study study hard and what you can have is only just passed it's not like score distinction for all the, subjects but you know how far you can stretch and you already put in effort so is like you're challenging yourself and you win


so that is the most important one is not like you know you persevere to be success you persevere to know how far you can stretch and you already know that you have tried enough,


yes, so that's why you we have to encourage that kind of behavior


err


okay , uh part three debate topic three


this one a bit difficult uh the key criterion for good government is how well the economy is managed so I'm supposed to say yes to this right that kit right, uh well the economy is managed so when the economy is managed well


, can can eh sorry am I like being mute oh sorry ya so sorry


okay so i #dom punya ai idom punya pula apa ni idom#, you don't think is a key criteria for for the uh for good government is economy lah am I right


you don't think that that key key criteria okay


okay so on my side I feel I feel that of course uh how well that, the government uh manage the economy is the key criteria criteria for them for the government to be uh to be like you know labelled as a good government


because we are not talking about just like cash money you know like like you you have you're you will be, rich and everything like that so because if let's say you the government uh manage the economy well we, will have like you know the job we have job opportunity we have like a lot investors then uh definitely we have of course we are like you know the the the sorry uh the community is uh


will be happier because like you know there will be a lot of opportunity for us to do a lot of things in our own country if the economy is uh well taken care of


but but you see because uh it depends on which kind of which country lah I mean you are talking about singapore definitely like you know singapore with all whatever that we have is like, whatever we have now like we have a good road we have a good education you know we have uh like good transportation all these are about money


so if let's say did you know that the key for the good government if is not uh economy then we won't have money we won't have all these, ya all this what is that call uh uh uh yes yes


ya now now ya definitely not not the only key uh not the only key but it's an important key you say economy it got I mean like for them to handle the economic well


is a very important key, yes yes of course


ya that's not the only key key criteria lah but it's an important very important criteria for the government to manage uh economy well


but our government managed our economy so well right so far , !huh!,


ya if not like everyone is not like but I still feel I mean I I uh how to say uh but I think I think this thing never but but uh I mean like like yesterday I had a, conversation with my family members so we actually talk about uh as of now because I think the recession haven't start yet so maybe like two five years down the road I feel that the


we will have a lot of economic problems so uh so I really think because of other countries yes of course and and of course when they touched the reserve right while like like politic ah very political now uh, so if let's say they are actually like tapping on the reserves lah or the layman terms uh we feel that is you know is actually uh they they are going to get back the money lah I mean this is one of the uh the economic uh I mean like this is the way that they have to manage the economy lah in our economy right correct not because


maybe like what we feel that uh they are going to take back the money that they give lah somehow layman term ah so because if like you know if twenty down twenty years down the road we have another virus like this so they actually can help, people like you know they helping now they are helping now you get what you mean right or do I need to repeat again uh I I mean the reserve lah or whatever that they are doing uh they are helping us right now like uh


yes yes so so of course if let's say you have like money in your bank and you keep like you know giving like your children money because they don't have money anymore and everything like that, but of course one day you say oh you know you are stable already you have to give me back the money so all these are strategies lah that they are going to do the government going to do they're going to you know maybe increase the ERP or whatever that they you know increase uh whatever tax that they can


they can tax us all these is because they want to put in the the reserve money back so that you know twenty years down the road they have they we have you know this kind of thing hopefully not lah but our children will, not suffer you know other countries they don't give you this kind of money uh it you know like they are not helping as much as how they help us right now


so, that's what how I feel that you know is the uh they they have to manage the economy well in order for them to be, good I mean to to to to be a good government lah


ya, stop the CB period lah


have they have to stop the CB, okay done , but but you you mentioned that ya a lot of people like disagree about the CB


but uh like what uh you have mentioned that a lot of people uh like uh disagree on, like stopping the CB right like like the


economy have to but, if you you have we have to I think we have to, cause you see like uh if they still continue on the CB uh like uh our economic going to be affected so, badly is so, badly so there will there won't be any job you know a lot of company actually uh suffers of this uh suffers from


this CB, so if they actually close uh everybody go bankrupt and then there won't be job a lot of jobless people around so how are they going to, to, to manage that right, but now I think getting better uh one number only right ya so ya I feel that the the first the


first criteria for, a good government is uh how they manage the economy ya like, in this monetary,


, ya when because like ya ya it when when the economy is bad everything will be, uh is a like uh what ripple effect uh they call it it's like to it'll be a lot of people be affected you know there will be a lot of robberies it there be like you know everything's gonna uh not safe anymore so all these uh ya


so what else can we talk about, this government , this topic very difficult you know


other criteria, other criteria than economy ya


but but but but do you but, uh okay talking about that right just now you got listening but you you can I feel uh like, uh the plight of uh the plight of people is always about money do you realise that, right it's like how well


I mean like, how uh how, well their income is and people are always complaining about taxes, and people are always complaining about what they have to pay, so everything always about money, money yes always straight about money our our our medication in singapore is so expensive our hospital so expensive and not so it always has got to do with money


oh sorry sorry oh okay okay never mind I I go inside the room cause everybody having dinner right now I go inside the room first uh hold on uh


okay in the room already uh sorry okay


uh uh okay !aiya!, yes yes


, okay done


, okay but for me I still stands by like economy uh how well the economy is uh managed is the key criteria for a good government


especially especially for countries like singapore like what you have mentioned uh we don't have any natural resources and all, so or whatever that we have whatever uh good thing that we have now living in singapore is all got to do with money


so we really have to take care the government really have to manage the economy very well,


ya but the dissatisfaction is all about money you know it's like everything like we always listen like we always, listen complain of singaporean is all about something got to do with money the the key the root of the problem is always about the money


ya, sorry yes


part one debate topic one


however I believe that intellectual skills are in fact more, important as practical ability, uh as sarah mentioned earlier on that, the, percentage of students who graduated


ah uh, got a job decreased, but it is not, correct to just say that this percentage has decreased only because of the fact they did they did not have any practical ability uh in my (ppc) sorry in my opinion


uh impressive academic credentials opened many doors for people, especially in terms of the social prestige and scoring straight A's in a-levels or graduating with first class honours from a highly regarded university


would always boost the resume of an individual dealing that to get good jobs in good companies so this is regardless of their practical ability and it's also seen that many companies prefer hiring people who're study at reputed uh universities


if you look at the context of singapore studies have shown that the percentage of graduates, of the highly regarded state universities such as national university of singapore who secured a, full time job within six months after graduation is much higher than those from well uh less well regarded institutions about eighty percent versus sixty percent in a recent case so on top of that scholarships around the world are granted to people who score good in their academics which


further bags the claim that intellectual abilities are more important than anything, does, uh in my opinion bright job opportunities lead people to place more emphasis on intellectual scale, rather than practical skills in singapore


I agreed few point regarding the, in fact that practical ability is taken into consideration in the area of job prospect but I do feel that intellectual ability still places are higher importance than the practical ability so uh for example if you just look


at the fact that , in retail let say retail in singapore uh whenever you see the job description even if you have the practical ability of uh for example good communication skills


it is impossible to get a job without the fact that you have the tertiary education level so in that particular scene, in a particular scenario it it the intellectual ability is still more important than the practical ability and I I understand your point of how it is


slowly become increasing in importance but I still feel that it has not reached the point where it is as important, as intellectual skills in job prospects


ya, I agree with your point (ppc) regarding the fact that uh there are certain jobs that do take practical ability more into consideration, I feel like uh, even though there are certain jobs like for example in the sports field definitely practical ability is more important than intellectual skills but those uh fields are have a smaller percentage that our regular


stable jobs, so uh I understand where you're coming from uh but for me, uh, improvement in one social status also leads people to place more emphasis on intellectuals skill, rather than practical skills so


uh being intellectual allows you to enroll into top tier schools with which boosts both the students and the family's reputation so for example many parents emphasise that their children attend, top universities like oxford, or cambridge so it raises their social status and it also allows them to gain a very wide uh networking group so you are able to reach places you never would have otherwise and in the context of singapore we would generally judge a person


intellectual ability and wealth even based on the schools that they had attended in the, path, so although the ministry of education always mentions the fact that all schools, are good schools, I feel like is still does not negate the fact that all schools are ranked if not officially then unofficially and the students that make it to the best who are often considered the smart


and higher prestige which is, I believe that like improvement in your social status also uh leads people in singapore to place more emphasis of the intellectual rather than the practical, skills


yeah I agree with your point uh regarding that it ah it has been shown to a lot of responses, uh, around singapore the fact that it wasn't really handle very well, and in this situation it does show that practical ability is just as important but uh you did mention that they managed to get this post and this position because of their intellectuals skill


right, ya so I believe that the intellectual skill is there as a stepping stone, uh as like the first, point of , of of a, like first point to judge someone whether they are suitable or not for


a a particular post which is what, I feel like it still holds more importance than practical ability because it is, still, frank as the first uh point to judge, someone, whether they are not aware like whether they are eligible or not for the job and


after like, uh for example if they have like, five or six people who have similar, uh education backgrounds similar intellectual skills then I believe that they use like practical ability to probably differentiate between the the few top candidates for particular job


prospect so, that's why I believe that uh practical ability is, important uh as a, to differentiate the best, but I uh do believe that intellectual skills because of the fact that it is the first


, like the first banking to go through to get a job is still more important, ya


ya I understand where you coming in fact I have also see in many of the situation like in fact direct school application have, all been changed from only academic to including your


uh co-curriculum activities, and they judge you based on, how you perform at the, your particular sport that you play or music uh instrument that you play rather than just the academic uh sections so you can go


to, whichever school you desire uh no matter what your academic background is ya so I do I understand your point and I agree in fact that in the future we will uh start placing more important some practical ability to match the import


intellectual skill but ya as of, today in singapore definitely I, uh, I with the stance that, the intellectual skills are more important than the practical ability ya


definitely I feel like moving away from purely intellectual skills allows uh they to be a more holistic


uh, a more holistic view of a person on how they can work in the job so I think it is a good thing that we are in the future going to place more emphasis on the practical ability to be just as important as the intellectual


those skills but what are about you what's your opinion on that


yeah I I agree with your point, it is a lot better to judge someone based, on their holistic ability because even for examinations which decide your future because it is your grade it is a very one time sitting thing so you sit there you have one take at it and there may be circumstances that uh unfortunate circumstances


is that uh force you or made you not do very well in the particular exam but you may have been a very good student or you may have been someone that is able to pick up, uh, many of the skills on the sports so I believe it is it is really good that our society is moving towards a more practical ability based approach to hire uh students because it gives everyone a more level playing of field you know uh just


by being able to mark your work and studies and regurgitate out in exam does not give you the ability to do well in your job uh aspect so the fact that you do online quizzes


I like the whole personality quiz I have taken that for or, , quizzes that tests you on your knowledge as well ya I have seen my sister take those tests before so I feel like having those tests there allows you to judge someone's ability


uh more uh, at a more accurate level rather than just, focusing on the fact that this person has gotten this much in their GPA which is also like different modules, so let's say the module that's important for a company maybe finance if you're specialising you may have done well but the other modules may have been the one that pull your credit down so I I do believe that practical ability


should become more uh as important intellectual skills in the future but as of today in singapore definitely uh intellectual skills are more important than practical ability, yeah


part two debate topic two


I understand, and do agree with your point to a certain extent the fact that, when someone is labelled as a failure and uh it can demotivate them but I feel that there is


a flip side, today's as well if the word failure is used uh maybe not exactly to label the person but the fact that you have failed at a certain, !huh!, or you have failed at a certain subject it can also be used as a way to motivate individuals so people have expectations and when one fails to meet the expectations


the, feelings of regret and remorse, are likely manifest so, this is very much likely to be the case of students who are unable, just go and discern results in examination or test


and the word failure beat by word of mouth or when it's written down in the form of a red letter f are in fact in singapore's situation we don't even use the letter f anymore, we have switched to using other alphabets


, it serves to prompt the students to reflect on their mistakes and learn for them and the idea is to be better than at oneself, to be a better person at the end of the day grew from your learn from your mistakes grow in in my situation like I play sports and sometimes I do fail at a certain


task or at a certain uh, game uh like particular game so I I play squash and there are certain techniques that we need to have certain way of hitting the ball so I do feel in those particular uh


like techniques and the fact that I failed gives me motivation to keep practicing so that I'm able to get it ya so in in my situation I feel like the word failure can


does have like a double edged sword I would say so some people may take it in the wrong way and hence demotivate them but at the same time I feel like majority uh they use the word failure to motivate them because


what's the lowest point you can reach failure there's nowhere that you can't go any lower than the word failure right from there there's only, uh improvement, ya so I feel like the word failure is used as a way to motivate rather than demotivate individuals


uh, I do agree your point like how do you define whether you passed or failed that, ~ness uh but these are more soft skills I feel so in regard of soft skills, uh there is really no definition anyone has created as of now and in fact they are not really judged


of their soft skills so when we talk about someone failing is usually uh the fact that they failed an academic, a subject, or they failed at , meeting their expectations


uh you know in regard it in any space that meeting their expectations to complete a work within the expectations for their grades so in those situations uh toward failure can be, seen as a I I believe can be seen as a tool to garner feedback for educators who will make the necessary arrangements to benefit the students


so, when you are able to in the sense label someone as, uh this person has failed to achieve this grade then, , the educators understand and uh appreciate in fact that these students are individual who possesses potential trades and skills so when these student fails the educators are


able to identify the capabilities of students and then calibrate teaching method uh like teaching methods that best benefit this their students at the end of the day so, this is why like singapore and malaysia and many other countries engaged students into streaming examination when streaming students of similar academic capabilities into same classes or schools educators can then stimulate the best learning environment for them so


I I understand that their failure can use uh when when you use the word failure it is, harsh but at the same, the word failure really can define a students like the position they're at a particular point in time whether they're uh failing at a certain topic in the whole like uh subject you know


so then you identify that this, particular person is not able to answer questions of this topic in this in this, subject so then uh educators can give this child more focus and attention for that particular topic right so which is why I feel that uh in in most of the sense failure or failing in that


uh segment and area is not considered a fair but can be used as a, tool to garner feedback ya


yeah I I do agree with your point that about the fact that there is a distinction between the word failure and failing in a subject and or like failed in something and failing in something is, definitely are not considered very harsh because when you say the word failure you are labeling the person but using your own


~ple of how, people who have been labelled as failure uh when uh I had in their lives and did something so much more than anyone expected so in those situations uh


maybe the fact that they have been labelled as failure, give them the motivation to drive to prove people wrong that they are not failures and they can do so much in their life and it may have prompted them to work even harder


so that they can prove people wrong so even the word failure like calling someone a failure can be taken two ways, either it can be, you know it can push people to the ground if they feel very demotivated and etcetera


or it can push people to be more resilient which is, my next point but I do agree that maybe the using calling someone a failure like uh in primary education maybe even in secondary shouldn't be used but maybe in tertiary or like higher education uh


with more maturity a person has they're able to use this word failure to take it in a positive way rather than in a negative way, yeah so as uh coming to my point so modern


day education teaches individual some relevant social skills like basic communication skills which is necessary at crucial and to facilitate that many schools represent themselves as a replica of how our modern day society works


uh group discussions presentations and deal assignments and it's why many schools across the globe encourage group discussions and project presentations in singapore the subject project work has been made an examination uh examinable subject


and to, accomplish the latter the usage of the word failure is necessary by exposing them to failures early educators can train the resilience of students which is an essential trait people should possess in our demanding society I believe that if


since if throughout their younger education they are protected they are not called, failures or they they don't really faced setbacks or when they do it is not like identify and you know no one really


says anything to them particularly about the fact that this is a setback or this is a failure and that you have to push yourself away from this failure, to be more resilient and you know grow from grow and learn from that failure


yeah that in those particular scenarios maybe in the future when this student has got in to the job scope and if, face their failure or their first setback they will not be able to push off as quickly as someone who has faced failure and overcome it which is why I believe that


the fact that it read the word failure or failing in the subject does, teaches us to the resilience to a large extent which is why it uh it should be used maybe to a certain extent but I feel that it should not be completely erase


yeah yeah I agree I agree with, uh whatever you have said, I do believe that the word failure can be too, harsh at some point of time, may ya especially if let's say even when they're in primary school and you call them a failure it can affect them emotionally which is why I read a statement that after a certain level of emotional maturity then maybe you can use this word failure


uh, which is why I believe that uh the word failure itself can be a form of motivation and means of feedback and uh the a way to instill resilience and that's why I


stand the fact that the word failure should be used in education but maybe what changes we can do is that uh we moderate the use of it in education so it doesn't have to be everything you can't do you fail


those can be setbacks and when you fail at something uh we need to teach students the idea and the fact that failing at something is not bad it is just a stepping stone for improvement you know where you feel this way you feel


gerard what your problems are and then you work forward from there, so in those situations I believe the word failure still holds a lot of importance, especially education yeah


yeah I


part three debate topic three


I understand your point and I do agreed that sometime, you would want educated people to make a decision because you feel that they are devotes intellectually, uh understanding and they see the situation around the world and they can take the best they can make the best decision but


the question is what do you mean by educated people, like what are you using as a means to, say whether this person's educated or, not because in this, case you are saying that educated should have a


right to put in elections, so are you saying that let's say I complete my tertiary education I am already educated enough to vote in elections, but what if I have no idea, about politics, all I have been doing my life is study study study I don't really care what the


government done or, who are the what the politics involved what they have done, past for us what they have, in offer for future, so, in that particular situation I may be educated in books, but uh


wouldn't been educated in the scenario on choosing my political, party so I believe that, having a very uh like you know cut off that you are educated if you have done or have a certain level of education like for example finished tertiary education


I don't believe that there is a good way to labels people to have the right to vote in elections or not ya also in many countries, , people are not able to, afford college university tertiary education you know their families might the poor so they have to start working from a very young age those people who are not able to attend colleges they may still have a very good understanding of politics


and political parties and what they have to offer but because of their financial strain they're not able to get back down in books that they are educated so I, don't believe that using the word educated people is good to just label uh people to


to see whether they have the right to vote or not it is not fair unless you are saying that there is a particular way that you can judge someone on their politics education level ya


I understand your point and I do agree that yeah if you have the education background you are able to understand and read materials and form your political, opinions in fact debate about it with your friends just to gain an understanding of both sides


but uh, you did mention about the voting age the fact that it's uh twenty one singapore correct and even in other countries it is usually ranges from like eighteen to twenty something correct uh but I feel like having


the age limit is very different from having an education as a limit having an age limit is usually more for the maturity and the understanding of a particular person that uh they have reached this particular age where they can


or they understand uh how their government is running their country uh which political parties better for them, or will work for them rather than ah the fact that they have an education so in singapore it is compulsory to have primary education which does set a a bar for your education but let's say there is a


person who has had primary education and they have not completed edu, like further education because they were not able to afford it or they really needed to work, to provide for their family even at the age of twenty one these people are allowed to vote uh without that educational background but uh and having restrictions on the fact that they are allowed to vote or not ah I believe it's not


good because they may be educated in the scene of politics you know, and uh, I do agree with the age because the age gives rise uh is usually associated with the maturity of the person but I don't agree with the fact that I only educated people should have the right to vote because uh if educated people are the ones they have the right to


vote they will vote into power those uh political parties that would help and work for the, ~cated and and that might create a vicious cycle you know they will vote parties that helped them and they become more educated get the kids to be educated and the parties will continue stayed


but uh what about those that are not educated what if the party does not help them or just not uh give them uh you know opportunities to be able to catch up with their friends in terms of education, and if those parties don't do that and these people don't even have the right to forward uh for who who they want or


or the party that are willing to help them then there's already discrimination against those who are under educated yeah, that's I believe


I I do agree with your point at a clearly that donald trump situation is a prime example of what happens when there are more uneducated than educated people, but


even in that situation you do realize that the fact that he was voted in, and he said that by majority of the uneducated means that there are so many uneducated people, uh right and uh


even in the past there have been residents voted him so when, barack obama was, voted in if he was still voted in by the those, who, had less education and uh won by the majority and he did very well for america so I do believe that uh you know the less educated are still able to make a informed choice


may not be as informed as those who are more educated but they will still make a choice that they believe is best for them uh however in donald trump situation, prior to his election during his campaigning period