and mostly is to prevent damages, of, to the artworks and also for the consideration of others that are enjoying the art, the space in the same location, uh obeying the rules and restrictions in the arts exhibition while enjoying the art pieces is for the good of the artist's work and also for everyone else that are at that are there to enjoy the art piece


can be understandable however there is different different forms of arts that are known, uh in the world that it's not just, art like, paintings and sculptures, such art art is basically like uh a beauty of certain things


and that includes musics and, also just the the sceneries and the environment, for like according to a research, uh that I found uh this, researcher called doctor taylor she is the founder and president of


realisation incorporate which the company is, are based on engaging uh brain function, research which they will use it for educational purposes, and according to her, music which is a form of art can be can have a negative impact


to, the society especially to an individual, like, some musics can, being calming and good however there are some, that can actually cause uh deleterious effects to the minds and the body


like, uh it can affect, not only, like this it can be peaceful for the soul as depending on the type of genres of the music however it can actually harm the body and also the mind


harmonic music which they do not follow the natural laws of, music that can actually, like damage your neurons and also like tangle them up neurons are basically like what's in your brain


and like this music are also, can be known as like the hard rock or also uh acid rock music, uh this like prevent the, neurons in your brain to get damaged or


tangled due to this kind of music it's really important to restrict, the time, you spend on listening to such music, like although you can't like totally stop the, the selling and the promotional of uh hard music and acid music you can actually limit the time


to listen to such music you can, instead of uh, like, you can do do so by, like encouraging more, uh, instrumental music piano, eh !huh!


instrument instrumental piano music which uh can be used instead of, the, acid rock music


uh to be enjoyed by everyone and not to be restricted for what they enjoy however there are more other things that are, much important than arts, and that, therefore like arts is not like the main


like reason for you to like do things as an inspiration and all that, first like, art not only like, uh it art doesn't, fully explains, to, each individual like a different different individual the real meaning


of like life and so on, like for example you go to a museum and you see a mona lisa painting, and you, some people may actually understand like oh the reason behind the meaning behind it like why why the artist paints all the mona lisa and all


(oo) but, some individual doesn't like all they can see it's just a lady, with no brows painted, like that that's all that you could see from the, from the painting so like, in other words like arts


should be restricted in a way where you, uh, you want to learn things, and to feel inspired by things like , because individual has a different way to get inspired and, like to learn about the


about the things in life, uh arts, pieces or like the songs are not a gateway to get inspirations from it, and you you can get inspiration from like reading a book


example uh art pieces all you can do is just look at it, restricting the restricting art as a source of, learning it's important to avoid


like to, decrease the amount of people, that feels, like they are not creative enough, to, learn through art pieces and musics and


it is not it's not something that you can, use, to learn for every individual, it it's not supposed to be used as a way for you to learn about life and, small so on just through art


so like for me to conclude everything is like , uh , that's needs to be some restrictions to arts depending on the situations and the genres of arts that you are, speaking of you know like it


needs to have a restrictions to have, uh like balance between, the arts and the society so that it doesn't actually disrupt, or like, influence the, society in a in a negative way therefore like for me


restricting the like following the different restrictions that, needs to be implied on is, important although , uh arts should be something that you can enjoy, but you need to follow the different different restrictions that


uh actually, are implanted, to it, that are implanted for the goods of not only the


like music but its also for the societies


debate topic two okay uh


whereas for me I I would agree that reading books is the most wondrous, like, reading book actually not only enable you to like learn new things and improve your vocabulary but if you actually


from all the different variations of genre, like you can actually have a different effect for reading, uh like, we have different genres such as the sci fi fictions uh like even there's even like educational and other fictional storybooks


which uh, an individual will have, according to the interests of the genre they have they can actually get like lose themselves inside while while reading the book like for example for me I actually really enjoy reading fictional books which are very entertaining for me so uh when I read a book I could just sit


at like a like a coffee table or just a corner of my room reading that book and like the whole day would have passed by without me noticing it because I would like my brain will just be like oh this book is interesting I'm gonna finish it like


like until you don't even know that so much time has went pass if you really enjoy that certain genre, so for you to enjoy the, like, reading a story book you need to have first you need to know the genres that you enjoy as an individual and not like


depending on what other people is reading so you feel like you'll like it but you don't really enjoy it so it's because you do not know the genre that you yourself truly enjoy that's why you couldn't use it as a, as a pastime hobby, uh if you know the genres of what you enjoy as a person


you can actually just pick up a book just sit down reading and you will know and you will actually notice that, time will pass by very very quickly , so reading a book is actually one of the good way to uh pass times if you actually know your


your genre of interests


okay I would, have to, partially disagree to your point as to movies and would be a great pastimes, like cause uh, let's say you want to spend the whole day, to do like, we have nothing to do so you want to do some an activity to like let pass the time and you decide to do uh


to watch a movie but, a movie has a certain durations only so most if you want to spend the whole day like, doing watching movie I think most of the time will just spend on you looking up on the different movies and what like shows you want to watch instead of actually enjoying the movie itself


because like, it takes time to actually find a movie or a show that you enjoy watching for the whole duration, uh and like if you do not like the show halfway then you will just end up like, leaving the show or leaving the movie to like look for more


uh different choices, therefore like, the so called like pastime of watching a movie is mostly on spend spend on looking for the movie and the showtime, therefore for me like, uh


for me reading book is much more better cause not only can you like, get lost in the whole story line but also because like reading a book you can actually bring your book everywhere you go, like you can actually be used for the whole day so for example you want to go to a school eh when you want to go to school or to work or even to meet up with your friends and family like the journey to the meet up point you can actually spend your time reading a book


uh, and also like to keep you company throughout the whole journey instead of being on your phone, or ya instead of being on your phone which actually can damage your eye for a prolonged period of time therefore like


you can actually just like, bring your book if you want to go out or if you want to go anywhere like maybe to a coffee shop you just want to sit down and drink some coffee you can actually like just take out your book read while you enjoy your coffee at the same time so it's very like convenient


and also uh it's a great company for you for when you want to spend an alone time or when you are alone going somewhere to uh different different locations or, while waiting for somebody and or waiting for your turn for an


test or something , like because reading a book not can only be just a storybooks and, you are not looking not just storybook but can also be like your like for educational purposes so like, example you are on the way to take uh


exam for your or an interview, you can just take out like your notes, that you would write write down on your book and you just read or even for like for a test, you can just take out your textbook and read through your the different


like, chapters and so on which can actually, like, as I said earlier it will just like, you will just read read read read until you don't even know the time so like you are you only like be wary when like you know you are about to go down or when you are like


when someone already arrive at and when you're waiting for people and so on


although I agree to you that, uh , that movie can be like a fast way to know about a story however, like us, the movie doesn't contain the whole content that is in a storybook because most shows like you said harry potter and like or twilight they have a s~the show is based on the storybooks that was created


and like as far as I know, the movies does not contain the whole story line of a story storybook, like you, if you want to know like the full story or like, uh


the truth like the actual, story line of that show is better for you to learn eh not learn read the book instead of going to the movies and watch, so to add on to my point like, I would choose book over a storybook because uh


it kind of save you, money it doesn't cost a lot, to have a storybook then like is more worth the money like for example you go to a movie and you paid for like twelve dollars and it's only for uh one time sitting


for the movie for uh that means like the twelve dollars will just be a two hour duration online uh of the movie that you watched, but like for a storybook you could pay like twelve dollars and that book will forever be with you, to


throughout the entire time so like you can use the book much more time than that twelve dollar you spend on a movie, to watch for a one sitting therefore is more worth it to own a book for you to read during your pastimes instead of like


going to the movies and spend twelve dollars for just a two hour movie which you could not possibly watch again in the same environment unless you pay for another twelve dollars, but, ya I agree that the movies can be like online and so on but you wouldn't


like, although you'll be on like on the internet and so on, not like, ninety percent of it of a time like you have to pay for the movie and if not you would just be like, uh, you will be of a low quality kind of movies like the


also got the, the visuals wouldn't be as great as the one you see in the movies, so like if you read a book its actually, uh, you will still have the same quality of what you imagine in your mind


instead like instead of like , going to a movie is cause like you won't actually, you like you won't really fully enjoy the movie and it's not really worth the twelve dollars that you would spend on a movie instead of a book


a book will stay with you and throughout your entire life


although alright if I would disagree to you for the point where you say, it is, more of a reading a book we wouldn't be really like close like this unless you have a bad eyesight so like you you saying how uh you will actually damage your eye is something that I would disagree to


like ya and then uh, for me to add on is that reading a book it actually helps you like, like imagine you are in uh like after a long day of school or work you're tired and you will be so stressed a whole days so like let's taking out your your favourite book to like sit down and read it's actually kind of like relieve your stress and


like, uh relax yourself therefore like it's like sort of your, moment for you like be away from all the digital life that you've been going on the whole day


uh during your work or your school so it kind of relieves your stress as like and when and like you allows you to relax because it's like it if it is your favourite books so you would actually kind of like enjoy it more and like feel much more


lesser less overwhelmed, throughout the days, ya so it like to conclude my point it's like, reading a book, has is much more beneficial uh as a pastimes instead of like


and also like


it's much more convenient for an individual, to have reading book as a hobby for you to pass time than like, to like, uh do other things such as watching movie or uh going out with your friends


and so on so it's, it's better to read a book, where you can actually gain knowledge and relax yourself, and instead, of doing the other things as your pastime


debate topic three


partially agree to your point that pop music is actually very addictive however like in today's pop music it is less create like, not really like for fans who enjoy pop music


compared to like the classical or like jazz music they , come out to be more or like less creative in comparison to the other music lovers, like


adrian north in two thousand eight, where he discovered that pop music lovers, showed uh genuine and significant lack of creativity compared to like the other music uh lovers


like it's like, pop music trains an individual to, to be, to less aspect creativity and artistic, things in life so uh this actually makes them less creative


ya and also like this musics, get it musics in general can nourish uh individual mind so when like a mega industry such as like the for the korea industry will be the SM the YG entertainment when they release uh


like, music it's like it's a short challenging, it is such challenging for every individual because like , we don't we won't know whether it's like


a good thing for us or not so like , if they released a pop music we would think you will be oh it's amazing and all but like, we, we won't know that the music that they actually made is kind of like affecting us in a way where it rid


we become less creative in the real world hence like, uh, it does not really, like, pop music won't have a, serious uh value in for an individual life when they do not have like creativity installed in themselves due to pop music


so I agree that billie eilish is one of the few people in the industry which actually , wrote, songs and lyrics that are based on like, the like


if you like okay the definition of music is like the like the vocal and instrumental songs so even like a combination of both to produce beauty of form harmony and expression of emotion so billie eilish is one of the few


uh artist out there which actually portrays this, uh this kind of music, but in the current like, in the current industries, like not many, it's hard to find


uh it's hard to find, artist and singers that actually portray these feelings of beauty harmony and even like their own emotions, like for the for example like uh like


not trying to of like downgrade or offend miley cyrus but like her song one of the song when she was released, uh, called we can't stop is like is one of the example of the


why pop music now is not, of any value because, like in this kind of songs like the sound that she uh released


almost every single uh pop music today, uh it's similar to that, like, in the past pop music is about, portraying the love and the pain or like, the anger you feel like in the different different situation but nowadays most of it is just about


sex drugs and about getting like, being turned up and like all hyper and all about, party which actually , reflects that teenagers acts uh which is, not, really encourageable


uh, is is not encourageable, among everyone, so this kind of music is certainly with it, it reduces the value of pop music, therefore like if there's, if there's more


singers and, artist that would really song like billie eilish does where she just, portrays the her emotions into the song that she wrote it's, uh


it would create much more impact and has a value for for pop music but it's because music industry these days just produce like and dirty musics, it's like they're encouraging, the listeners to be immature and like to be very very


uh like not no not not uh, it's a secret ah is more of like is encouraging teenagers to be very, dirty and sexualised in such a way, uh in terms of the kind of music they keep releasing in the industry therefore like this kind of music


is work, of a value or it's not, it doesn't, have a serious meaning behind the songs anymore, like for now they're just all into entertainment and like to do whatever


the industry like the the listeners wants but it's never about, the value of the music, the value of what the artists feel, and like, the different different, different harmony, uh that


the artists would come up with, in like this kind of pieces of pop music therefore for me pop music for today, it's hard, to find those that are, meaningful and has value so in general pop music now is just frivolous and is not


uh, and it's very hard to find, pop music that are very valuable


for I would agree that, some, lyrics and all but like, it's not uh it's not something, uh it okay them the lyrics can be something make meaningful and so on but however


if the, beats and the sound melody of the song is like it's repetitive its not, not, gonna bring much value although, like, much value to the whole song in general although like the lyrics can be something meaningful


like thus, these days pop musics are just like, uh they're just using, chords words and like the, what's the word, like the variation of chords they use and the


music they use it's, they have like the same combination, of like keyboard keyboards, the drums the like the different like sound effect at the back


and like the number of chords they use for the song is all very very similar to what they used in the past days so it makes pop music like very like is more of like a, sort of watered


watered down uh version of the, the different pop cultures eh pop songs in the past that was in the chart, so it doesn't made today's pop uh pop songs to be very


meaningful and valuable with the different, like, the different usage of uh the music that they use, is when, it's very similar to those used in the past so it makes it not significant


for like today's world , in the mid pop music culture, ya so like to conclude for my point, uh pop music, for today's is


is frivolous, due to like the repetitive kind of song and like the lyrics and the, music they use isn't, uh, valuable as what they used in the past, so it's


not as it is frivolous


so for our first topic


the question is should there be any restrictions to enjoying, the arts in your society


I personally believe that people, as arts is a universal and well like form for people to openly express themselves freely


art forms for example like a dance piece in a performance or an art piece in a museum have always been created to communicate uh important messages and to inspire people to act and think in a certain way


I agree wait no I disagree to the statement, that that uh like how you said like a picture or painting of a banana equals to like very high value in the, price of the art but maybe to some people it has like uh you know like uh meaning behind the painting of the banana because uh it might have some type of meaning that the the artist is trying to convey to the audience so it's up to their own interpretation also


and uh I understand the the, the , I understand why uh people might think it's weird for like painting like that to be millions of, dollars but, I mean some people


who can afford it they they can do whatever they want and like if they want like a piece of banana in their living room then let them be that way you know, I also think that everyone has different tastes when it comes to art forms like we're not built in the same way so it's okay if like each person has a different preferences to things that we like or dislike


it's like the world will be boring if uh boring and an uncreative place if we all like the same things so that's why I feel like there shouldn't be any restriction to limit the joy and happiness


that art brings to our society


uh I get what you're saying with the restrictions but I feel like there's two, uh, uh meanings of like restrictions in enjoying to the arts as in like people uh, uh


the the art and the sculpture but


uh, I understand that point of view because I mean I get it because uh the art is there to enjoy, through the eyes not through touch or other senses so I agree with the restrictions when you go into like a museum


on on not touching the, art ya , and to add on, , what I feel like there shouldn't be any restrictions in enjoying the art


a few sculptors uh, uh, they actually recreated piece of art using non biodegradable materials such as uh plastic bottles bottle caps uh old worn out sheets batteries old tech goods and much more and I feel like this is a great and innovative


way to spread a message that the artist is trying to spread a message and awareness to people on the issue of recycling and to also encourage them to recycle when they can with what they have and to turn it into pieces of art


an art form so, uh, I also agree that uh some music may be quite not so


it might not be a good influence on some people, like like as you said like some acid rock music which might not be good for like , the brain you said the neurons or something like that, and yeah I get that some like even some of the lyrics and like music today are quite like


questionable and also reflects on the the music artist, uh, on what they're trying to say with their lyrics so I understand the restrictions of enjoying arts to a certain limit with like uh not just like physical uh not just like


music and just like, art as a whole general art form, and uh to add on


politics culture, uh history fashion and so much more ,


humans have always made, images for many reasons, uh decorative communicative, uh and for emotional effect as well, like it's in our bone for us to communicate with each other through our expression in arts so overall I feel that if something brings you uh enjoyment and happiness in your life


that, uh you are entitled to enjoy it and there shouldn't be any restrictions to that


uh picking up your point from what did you say you said that arts is not like a essential or like , uh not as important for someone to enjoy is it


I disagree with that statement because , uh, I I wouldn't say it's the only form of education or like teaching or like learning , uh teaching uh people about life or like things like that


are creative thinkers and like want to showcase, their individuality and their expression in their, creative side while also like informing people on like serious matters like uh


uh, uh like what I said just now with that art piece is its to inform people to be more mindful of what they are wasting and to try to recycle their, uh, the materials and you know like is


I wouldn't say that art is, uh only, how to say art isn't a bad way to like educate people on like serious topics but is a is a, a more uh, is a creative way for people to express themselves


uh when they can't through words they do it through art, ya, and uh to add on, , recently there was this, uh how to say, hold on okay I found this uh


quote online which said, uh, uh artistic expression is not a luxury it is a necessity which is a defining element of our humanity and a fundamental human right which enables everyone to develop and express their humanity


uh so ya uh talking about that, there was this like recent survey like I don't know if you know about this like a few months ago like especially now uh through this pandemic it says that


uh they are like considered the most non essential workers which a lot of people were quite uh disturbed by like especially in the arts community , so uh after reading the article I kind of agree with their, point of saying uh like through the public's eyes saying that it's not essential but also at the same time what we are keeping ourselves busy especially now is through


different forms of art like uh watching movies and uh watching uh you're playing games and like reading books and like basically what we're doing is keeping ourself entertained with, different forms of art so for for the public to say that uh


that, artists are non essential is quite, questionable because it is what we are doing which, you know that , uh, uh the most but the public overlook said


uh, as non essential so ya


debate topic, okay so for our uh second debate the question is


uh, so for me I disagree that books are the most enjoyable time uh, enjoyable type of pastimes people can do


because first of all not everyone enjoys the act of reading so I cannot speak for everyone on this statement that it is the most wondrous of, pastimes , as I have talked about in a previous topic uh people, have, different likes and dislikes so what you may enjoy which is reading as your favourite


pastimes


I would still disagree that books are the most enjoyable thing that someone can do during uh, uh to pass, time and what they do regularly for enjoyment rather than work , so for I mean reading book is a


pastime, which is also a hobby, uh I feel like what a person does during their pastime is reflective of their likes, uh, preferences and also their own personality trait so a person who chooses to read as their pastime


probably enjoys diving into like a fictional world and like getting carried away and like said uh like the day will like pass by very fast and with that because of the story line however, , uh some people might not like that and want to enjoy their pastime in the real world


uh personally my uh all time favourite pastime is going to the movies, or watching a, a uh, home where I'm at my most comfortable at uh using Netflix uh so


it's understandable for some people to prefer watching movies, than reading books as watching a movie or a TV show or just like any visual, uh, visual type of art is a more passive experience than reading a book


mood, a motion picture or like a movie provides the same content, of, a book in a much more easily consumable way as compared to a book which can take a lot of your time to even complete the many pages


I also partially agree with the the statement that uh, uh what uh, uh books are very, a convenient way for people to, uh to take away uh


of piece of ya, something that you can bring around with you when you have uh nothing to do or like waiting for something which can keep you uh entertained but I would also like to say that you have your phone with you and uh


uh, that you can easily watch uh, , YouTube videos movies and like TV shows on Netflix, uh all like on, line on online websites so uh for, books to be the only entertainment for people when they're outside and for it to be convenient is not


they are not the only uh source of entertainment for people when they're outside but they can also like use your phones for like uh Netflix and to watch movies and TV shows uh it although it might be straining to the eye after awhile


uh I would ya to add on, I would say that uh, additionally movies are much more tangible, uh, visual and compact than written works such as books because they're easier to remember with audiences uh movies are increasingly becoming the primary modes of spreading information and educating audiences


through visual storytelling, because, uh people would much rather want to see a movie which


uh, tell the story visually and to get the information, and, just to narrate the story than reading a book which might take a whole day so I would say that watching a movie


would , be a much faster way if you wanna know about a story or uh, uh ya, and I would also like to add, on that, the film industry goes beyond entertaining and even teaching the public it helps reshape the narrative


into , uh the public's consciousness in a way that books no longer do, uh or have done, many people would rather watch a movie adaptation of a book for example like harry potter than actually read the book


uh, uh it also provides a more fun watching uh a fun movie watching experience that way


okay uh to add on the discussion between like movies versus books right uh, , I would say that I do agree that books , provide a sense of like enjoyment to know the full story but I also feel that movies


uh give it how to say uh provides uh a, a full movie watching experience as you get to see the book that you care so much about into , real life and are pulled into a movie adaptation of the books so like for example harry potter again like some people will like reading the book but to actually finally see it in cinemas is quite an enjoyable experience for them to like you know


uh uh, uh see the characters and see the scenes being played out and like to fully, enjoy the whole uh experience of the world of


pastimes , I feel there might be some people who have a difficulty in reading and they are not able to fully enjoy and understand the, the, the pastime of reading so they would


uh, uh focus on other pastimes which they are able to enjoy and have an actual interest in like for example someone who likes gardening would have like a, , plants outside their house or like if they live in like a bungalow then they have like plants behind their house that type of thing if they really like gardening you know and uh other pastime such as cooking


dancing painting and other pastimes so , , to add on as well uh, not the best pastime for some people is that constantly reading for hours can be straining to the eye and if you are reading too close to the book it may also cause you to get reading glasses and your vision may be affected from reading too long


so what do you think about


okay uh to conclude my opposition of the statement that the view uh what the reading sorry that that reading books is by far the most wondrous of all past times, ah, as I said before that uh


, each person has their own preference of likes and dislikes and if they enjoy reading books then if that's what bring them enjoyment then good for them but there are also other pastimes for people to enjoy and not solely based on books


debate topic three, okay uh so for our third debate topic


pop music itself so I would say it has quite a strong impact on us as a society even today by nature, by nature pop music has a certain appeal to, many uh


uh millions of mainstream listeners all around, in the world as, and dismiss as a light frivolous and


the age of pop music started to become more mainstream


the beatles michael jackson uh britney spears lady gaga taylor swift, uh ariana grande and so many more great artists of pop musics, and, I also would like to say that you cannot turn on the radio without hearing at least one pop music eh pop song which has clearly shown how much pop music is deeply rooted


and has deeply impacted our society in many ways so I would describe pop music as like an addictive and, uh catchy uh, genre with many, several uh


a catchy beats and tunes with , fun lyrics to sing along with whether you're like in a karaoke bar or like at home alone or with your friends so yeah I disagree with the statement that it is considered frivolous in today's society


I would like to uh disagreed with the statement that uh, uh, that uh pop genre is the least creative of the genre, I feel like its one of the most creative genres, of music because you are


able to freely express yourself in whatever type of way cause pop can be literally anything that you want like looking at pop music videos throughout the decades right if it has really evolved with like the time from the eighties to the nineties to the two thousands to the two thousand tens


uh, uh and I disagree that that is one of the least creative even though I understand why people say that because they say that oh pop music all sounds the same these days, but


like if you have seen a lot of pop music videos you would know that they are quite weird and quite like


popular which is uh, , very in your face and full of colours and very just very, fun to look at so that's why a lot of these pop music videos have a lot of views because they are very entertaining to see and people want to like consume and like rewatch it again and again and again like for example like example K pop like uh


a lot of the fans are obsessed with increasing the views of the music videos and even if they are not their target is not to increase the music video views the the, the the


conceptualisation and the, the ideas and the creative thinking that goes into the music videos is it is what makes you want to rewatch the video again and again because there's actually a story line behind the music video so I would disagree that it is one of the least creative in fact I would say is one of the most creative genres of music


uh uh, than the other types of genre music and uh to add on, (ppc), the I would like to say that the whole idea of pop culture is surrounding a pop artist and their influence on the mainstream media and the public


uh, uh an example would be uh billie eilish which uh she has stated in an interview that she considers she was, uh she was considered as a pop music artist after her big after her breakthrough in twenty nineteen but she describes herself as a blend of several different genre so not just pop music she feels like she is a


a, a mix of genres such as like rock and like R&B and also just many different types of uh, genres of music and that she doesn't want to be defined by a single genre of music and she just wants to create whatever that she wants on the top of her head and would like to translat it into her music and her music


uh, by other people today


uh I would like to agree to the statement that most uh pop music today is quite, uh, uh people don't take it as seriously as they did like in the eighties or nineties or even the two thousands I personally I prefer the pop music when it was the two thousands like from two thousand to two thousand ten instead of two thousand ten to now so because it has a much


more how do you say uh has much more of a uh (hmm), nostalgic feeling to it because many many teenagers, my age would relate and have a nostalgia factor to when they hear the pop music


uh from like , when they were younger so I do agree that pop music now is not as good as it was back in the two thousands or like even the nineties but I do I would like to disagree on the statement that it has no meaning now


uh, especially when they're, uh, pop genre like because just because of one, a few or maybe more than a half uh


pop artists that has that that produces song which has, not much of a meaning and it's just there for like entertainment and like has no actual meaning behind a lyrics I mean it's all up to the person as well because music is music and like you can listen to music without having any uh


uh personal attachment to the lyrics like if you just want to have a good time you just listen to like a dance song or like a EDM or like a pop song so not every single song, uh you listen to has to have like a certain meaning but I understand why people get sick and tired of the


the, the the, the songs that are repetitive and use the same beats and drops every single time even though that we are evolving through the years the pop music now is still, has, it's kind of transform into rap as well because


rap has, kind of taken over the pop, scene so pop scene now is like kind of mix of rap and pop so is not, fully pop as it was like in the two thousands or nineties, uh also to add on I would like to talk about the sub genres sub genres of


pop which is uh, example like J pop K pop, uh, M pop soft pop and so on so, uh for example K pop has made such a huge impact in our society , all, uh all around the world today with artists such as BTS and blackpink and other K pop groups


uh, so what they want to do is they want to make K pop mainstream and have a worldwide influence as well as attracting people from all cultures and background into the world of K pop so I would say that


, as between K pop and like uh western pop , pop nowadays they don't have much meaning into their lyrics as they're all about having a good time and being hype and all that


but if you look at some lyrics in uh some K pop uh groups or like songs they actually have some quite sentimental and like meaningful value in their lyrics so if people are looking for more of a, a, I mean not saying that K pop is just full of meaningful I mean they're known for their bobs and they're like dance uh


dance numbers and all of that but if people are looking for more of a, uh sentimental and like meaningful value in their, songs that they listen to I would recommend , hearing K pop music because some of their lyrics are actually quite


of value and they relate back to the, listener who is, maybe feeling some type of way when they hear the the song, but, ya I would say it, just because of one individual it doesn't represent the whole pop uh industry of not having any value or being frivolous


okay do I go, I start okay uh ya thanks for the points charmaine I so maybe I will address the the proposition's points are put forward first which is that it's easier to recycle, and due to technological advances uh recycling becomes a somewhat more viable proposition okay so


I I don't really agree that it's easier, to uh recycle you know due to the fact that I think in countries like singapore, I don't think that there's enough emphasis placed on recycling, which by and large makes it uh more for consumer dissonance when with regards to recycling whereby you know the consumer IE the end user


of a of a product would would probably need to put in incremental effort uh to ensure that you know the recycling is done uh in a proper manner this could be segmenting you know based on the the the goods uh segmenting based on plastics uh rub rubber glass et cetera et cetera, next with regards to technological advances I I totally agree with you that it has indeed improve recycling however I think we should dissect recycling and really understand that you know in recycling there are different types of products I think there's nine different variants of plastics if we're just talking


about uh you know a different a different monomers right made made polyethylene and what not and what what I realized you know from some research is that only uh I think only two out of nine or three out of nine of the types of variants of plastics can actually be recycled so yes I agree that


technological advances has indeed helped uh the problem of waste to a small extent but I wouldn't say is the problem to the answer of waste simply because I think the number of variants that can be recycled today are far too small, and most of the time what we see in recycle plastics actually ends up in in waste landfills all around malaysia so you know malaysia is well known for having a lot of our plastics that was supposed to be recycled there were being disposed you know in the oceans of of malaysia you know next to my point so I I don't agree that recycling is the


problem of waste, sorry is the answer to the problem of waste uh for a couple of reasons because, I think what I what I spoke about was really my point number one uh which is the the limitations to recycling per se right uh that address uh sherm's concerns uh secondly I think a reduction really is a problem of waste so if we think about waste management you know we can kind of uh distill it down to three big


points right reduce reuse recycle something that we've been taught, uh from a very young age and I think a reduction, uh to me is is the clear answer to the problem of waste because you know today uh we live in an increasingly consumerist society


and and quite frankly I think , you know you know we consume way too much of everything and, the problem is also you know this idea has been kind of reinforced by uh you know by big big MNCs you know to ensure that everything is very well packaged so I think you know by and large we kind of need to do some self introspection reduce our consumption of goods and services


and so that's on reduction uh next I don't think reusing things are really uh uh answer to the problem of waste and and I say this because I believe that it's good to reuse things you know I think it would help maybe help


achieve a end goal uh maybe to a very small extent and and and I I don't think it's a good solution uh talking about reuse here, because of the fact that I don't think it's fair to the consumer and it's not a viable and attractive proposition to tell them that !hey! you should reuse these containers because uh you know you are helping the environment I think what we need to do is rather than you know reusing them we need to try to see how we can reduce perhaps the use of single use plastics


so I think when we talk about waste management I think single use plastics is the single use case that is actually causing a lot of harm to our environment right so, I think single use plastic even if we reuse it it's gonna become a double use plastic, still it's gonna be harming the environment so I think we need a paradigm shift in how we look at this and we need a reduction which can be facilitated through uh technology where you know I've been seeing they're coming up with reusable products from things like corn et cetera so I think that perhaps could be a problem with something that is biodegradable


and something that serves the same purpose as single use plastics but it's not single use plastics, ya that's all from my end


okay thank you so so maybe you let me start off with what you talked about you mentioned that it's easy to recycle uh given singapore's context so, if I could share my personal opinion on this I I still believe that it isn't easy to recycle from from my experience ah and where I reside ah you know it's it's not exactly convenient to uh recycle


and, I think this is slightly different from other countries and I agree that singapore is very much behind with regards to recycling in other countries from my time living in in abroad uh what I've learnt is that they have different bags that colour is are color coded to recycle so in that sense it's it's


very easy for the end customer to actually practice recycling without even calling it recycling, so so I I wouldn't agree that singapore in singapore it's easy to recycle because I think having a recycling point uh you know four hundred metres away from your home I I would I would not consider that as being convenient especially uh given the fact that we are in singapore and we are


uh you know very a very small country so I think that there can be a lot of improvement there , and and you talk you talk about europe uh which which I totally agree with and that recycling is prevalent in europe, however at the same time you know landfills are filling up faster in europe as well so I think you know this kind of circle circles back to my initial point of you know we we always talk about uh recycling being the problem but uh recycling being the answer to the problem of waste but I think I want to stress the point that you know


recycling is is definitely not the solution simply due to the fact that you know, probably about fifteen to eighteen percent of the stuff that you recycled actually gets recycled so I think, as the consumer and this is where to be honest you know when I was doing uh some research on to this question this is where it was uh quite uh mind blowing for me because I I always believe that recycling was an effective solution until I actually dug you know peeled the onion a little bit more and I realise that


well if only fifteen percent of what I think is being recycled is actually being recycled what happens to the the balance eighty, five per cent and you know what I've found out was uh rather shocking in that this eighty five percent just ends up again uh as waste in our landfills it is as though we have not even recycled so I think


you know we can , okay we can uh kind of talk about recycling uh being effective but you know I think if we take a step back and really look at what proportion of things that are being recycled actually are being recycled, I think it's quite alarming uh and and you know what and and from what I've read it seems to be around the twenty percent figure and I think


for for for for me hence I think that uh reducing is still gonna be , uh gonna be a more effective solution and to your point about not being able to change consumer behavior I have to disagree with that because if you think about it uh I would say recycling today is very prevalent you know we see it in almost


every developed country I'm not going to talk about less developed countries because I think they have uh you know more important things to do than to recycle and I think that their focus is, uh not so much of environmental conservation uh due to the fact that they have uh other things you know economic expansion which kind of contradicts with the whole ethos uh or the whole rationale behind environmental conservation


so my focus today is on developed countries I would say that recycling has you know has definitely picked up in in most developed countries in some developed countries you know it is mandatory to recycle, , so to answer your question charmaine that was a consumer behavior shift you know people did not used to recycle uh you know twenty years ago


and and and that shift had was was possible basically today you know we see people you know people like myself people like you uh probably recycle so I think that shift uh you know was facilitated you know, towards shifting consumer behaviour by showing people the real value proposition of recycling uh although my myself I don't really believe too much in the value prop after doing some research however I feel like if you could change people's perceptions towards uh recycling and change the way they live


uh and actually practice in recycling why can't we do the same with reduction so I think you know to your point yes consumer uh it's not easy to change consumer behavior consumer mindset uh the consumerist society is very much ingrained in our society, but I think it it is worth a definitely worth a shot and we were able to do it with the value proposition of recycling and I don't see why we can't do it uh with a value proposition of reduction given that you know it's gonna be definitely far more uh effective as a solution in uh comparison to uh recycling


okay uh thanks for the I think your second point uh is somewhat uh can be addressed with my , answer which were sort of encompass both uh both points you've raised cause I I believe that there are uh parallels can be drawn between both point so uh to your point on efficient recycling so quite frankly uh when I delve deeper into the subject uh I actually found out that it is not possible to you know to increase the efficiency of recycling


recycling uh I think you know just to set the context uh it is not a new technology that came up it is not block chain it is not AI uh it is not machine learning, and it is a very old technology actually a lot of money resources time have been allocated towards uh recycling and to increase efficiency of recycling because you know this many multitude of stakeholders uh have a lot of vested interests in this


however you know from what uh from what I understand a lot of these materials are just unable to be recycled so yes in a perfect world if uh it could be recycled then I I would agree with you that it is the problem uh to the answer of waste, but, in in today's context you know taking the technology that we have today I'm not talking about uh you know a long term solution you know I because I believe if we talk about maybe a fifty year solution maybe in a fifty year time the problem of waste has exacerbated to the extend that it's irreversible so I think as of today


I still wanna uh stress my point that I don't think recycling is the answer, uh to the problem of waste because with our current level of technology that I don't see improving anytime soon uh you know recycling is simply an inefficient uh solution and efficient recycling uh I would consider it more of a myth than something that can be done in a in a in a very uh in the next ten to fifteen years I think we're out of time so uh I I shall end it there


debate topic two


thanks uh thanks for the points uh charmaine so maybe let me address uh the point on negative oil pricing so I think you know I I think maybe to set the set the context here so I think negative oil pricing, you know uh before we go into financial markets you know really looking at it from a demand supply perspective uh what actually happen in this in this case was that uh there was an oversupply of oil


you know uh the demand could was far lesser than the supply uh and when the supply or you know basically when the supply shifted so much to the right uh there was a severe downward pressure on price which actually caused it to to decrease, and and when that happens uh of course uh people that hedge against it you know they would it it would be very unstable and it would it has indeed as you mention resulted in negative oil prices


but I don't think that shows uh anything about the world being too dependent on oil to be honest as a matter of fact I would say that that that's actually a point that I would take as the opposition because I would say the the fact that , if indeed the world is too dependent on oil oil would be trading at a hundred and ten dollars a barrel as it did in twenty fourteen


as it did all these all all of these last ten years that we've seen however today oil we're talking about crude going thirty five dollars a barrel we're talking about crude where the worst at fifteen dollars a barrel so I think with that amount of supply, you know it's far less than the demand so I would say that the world has definitely shifted and this kind of goes to my main point so uh if we think about what has happened


uh you know let's let's maybe take a twenty year perspective oil prices today are lower you know the lowest in the last twenty years uh if we look at it uh as a as a twenty years being the time horizon, and you know over the last twenty years if you think about it what has happened to the world's population the world's population you know it's it's kind of going in one it's it's sort of a a it's it's a bit like the the financial markets at the moment it's only going in one direction is unidirectional you know the world's population is only going to increase


and if your proposition held water I would imagine that you know the world's oil consumption would be increasing and in line with that given the oil is uh you know non renewable resource I would imagine that the oil price should be shooting up the sky, you know I think that's what the folks in dubai probably thought you know back back when oil was a hundred and ten dollars a barrel however reality struck


and you know the world's population has been increasing, and as you mentioned oil actually went into the negative it went into the it went into the rates from a hundred and ten dollars per barrel so I think that really sort of buttresses my point that, the world is definitely not too dependent on oil and I think the fact that the oil price has decreased so much


and to be honest if we think about uh so some people may argue that this is due to increase in oil exploration activities, if we look at the companies that do oil exploration majority of them have have gone bankrupt you know uh with our uh many of our singaporean companies being one of them Hin Leong as well was one of the subcons that was closely associated to uh some of the oil exploration companies


so so basically for for my perspective the way I look at it definitely the world is not too dependent on oil because of the fact that you know we look at the demand for oil it has been dropping, and this just means that you know there are many substitute in consumption to oil this is a this is basic economics you know so people have gone to uh perhaps more environmentally sustainable


you know resources such as solar energy such as uh using uh you know using electric cars such as using battery powers uh you know wind energy for example in china china is a big proponent of of uh using uh a nuclear nuclear uh power


as long as using hydroelectric power you know with the three gorges dam and I think I just want to touch on , the prevalence of a nuclear energy so if we think about it today , okay if we think about it today I think the world has shifted quite substantially into into nuclear energy and maybe I'll give a few uh a few examples of uh markets that are close to home


so if I look at uh india as a market you know there's a one point three billion people you know second most populous country in the world a very large consumer of uh electricity obviously given the population however many uh many of the big cities in india actually powered by you know by nuclear power


which is definitely a lot more , err, a lot more clean you know it's it's called clean energy for that very reason that you know if we think about the by products are very minimal in comparison to in a traditional electricity which is generated through uh you know through a non renewable resources such as oil


so I would say that I think the world has shifted, uh you know to summarize the world has definitely shifted to I would say more environmentally sustainable sources of energy solar energy uh which I don't I don't really agree with solar energy being the best today but I think nuclear energy has definitely you know proliferated you know


yes uh Fukushima Daiichi did happen but you know I think the fact that most countries you know thailand india china japan they are still doing they are still very much vested in nuclear energy and I think that speaks volumes about the proliferation of other forms of energy


and uh and you know to your point on on the the decrease in oil price I think that really supports uh sort of the opposition's point of view that the world is not too uh dependent on oil


uh thank you charmaine, so maybe I will address your last point first why why why why is there a correlation between uh uh the oil price and financial markets I think the answer to that quite uh unrelated to this topic uh but since you brought that up the answer to that is really uh due to the fact that oil uh is pegged very closely to the US dollar


so uh it it it is a exchange in mechanism in in some sense and that's the reason why there's a such a close correlation uh resulting in oil prices versus you know other things such as cotton and wheat and flour and what not they are not priced in the US dollars whereas for oil uh it is strictly priced in US dollars if you look at the crude


uh or or you look at the brand ah it's all in US dollars so it has close correlation to a certain currency uh which which also happens to be the world's strongest currency, so that's on the last point maybe on the uh I will address the the other two points that that you spoke about


and that kind of uh uh is weaved into the opposition's point of view so you know you brought up a very uh interesting point on on why are we still using oil and uh and I I would I would ask myself the same question as well


okay sorry so uh where was I ah why are we using uh no worries why are we using it oil I think that's a very good question , honestly speaking I'm I'm asking myself the same question as well and I think the the answer lies with the fact that, you know oil maybe we look at a bit of history where a historical perspective would help us to understand I I wouldn't call it the business cycle but maybe the the life cycle of a certain product so if we think about you know we think about the use of plastic right before that it was you know


wood being used et cetera and then it was a paradigm shift in the plastics but that took a lot of time and I think if I draw the parallel to something like , something like coal right coal used to uh you know we used to have coal powered uh stations uh back in the day we used to have coal powering trains et cetera and and it took a lot of time before coal uh was was switched to to fuel


alright so I think I think the answer to that why are we still using oil is really two reasons, first being that I I think it's these things take time to change it's not overnight that uh nuclear energy for example proliferated


or solar energy for that matter proliferated and of course there are downsides to every solution and I think the the key part is you know if they invest enough time I I think uh the problem would be able to be mitigated and also closely related to that uh I would say it's a technological gap


now oil today you know, it is a solution because it is a cheap solution, you know to put things very frankly uh if we want to use uh for example if I were to power my house using solar energy it's going to cost me a lot of money today why the reason is due to economies of scale right it's not a solution that is widespread today


right oil is used by every singaporean household right you know singapore's a deregulated oil economy now uh with uh you know different players so of course there's a downward pressure on price, consumers will love this downward pressure on price but I think if solar energy or if you know


not not using singapore as an example but if hydroelectric energy oil firm, nuclear energy for the matter were to proliferate definitely uh you know oil would would be replaced and and I, I would say that you know, and and I would say that that's really work in progress as we speak and and we're seeing this in a lot of countries uh and as I mentioned earlier india thailand you know that's just within our region outside our region nuclear energy has really proliferated to to you know to form a substantial part of the energy offering


to your point on singapore being too focused on oil I would say singapore is okay I would actually agree with you on this point that singapore is indeed too focused on oil because obviously the main competitor ah if we talk about you know production of energy uh we talk about uh electrics power stations


uh you know there are very few variants that can actually produce this energy you know the two the two big ones uh a really the three big ones being oil of course being nuclear and being hydroelectric or or hydroelectric power singapore uh


definitely can't do hydroelectric singapore due to the fact it's seven hundred square kilometres it definitely can't do nuclear as well, uh due to the thirty kilometre requirement to have a nuclear power station right so so that's out of it so to be honest why singapore is too focused on oil because they don't have any alternative uh so that's that's the the simple ah my my simple opposition to your proposition so I would


and you said that the the world is too dependent on oil, and I don't think the world is too dependent on oil uh because of the points that I mentioned and also because of the fact that, you know I think the oil price is is I I am kind of going back to circling back to that point but I think that really sums it up quite well you know the oil price


is about twenty five percent of what it was despite the population increasing by about about one point five to two percent so I I wouldn't agree that uh that the world is too dependent on oil, uh sorry yup thanks


okay thanks so uh interesting question you brought up uh what our world stop actually I I agree with you that indeed our world's stop however in the singaporean context I would agree that the world would stop uh I think we should take a step back and realize that you know singapore makes up what four million people five million people


you know point point zero six percent of the world's population


well I I think we shouldn't bring together the demand side of things and the supply side of things and the financial repercussion of it cause I think they are quite independent points, but to to your earlier question you know the way I look at it I think if we, take this out of context in out of singapore's context I I totally agree with you in singapore yes you know the world would stop I think our our world would stop as well


our world here because we are in singapore but I think outside of singapore there are a lot of progressive nations that are actually using different forms of energy and I think their world will not stop and and and I think that is a good reminder to us that !hey! this is not just some fluffy idea uh I do agree that uh a lot of renewable sources of energy


unfortunately I I don't think that they're efficient you know uh if we look at the input output it just does not make uh commercial sense but I think uh there are alternatives that are very viable you know and I keep harping on a nuclear energy cause I sincerely believe that, you know so much of the world is actually being being supported by nuclear energy and it is something that we can do unfortunately


singapore will never see it right but but you know it doesn't mean that singapore is the world so so to your question I I don't think uh singapore will I think singapore will always be too dependent on oil but I think if we look at the you know the remaining six point seven billion people that reside on planet earth I think there's other solutions uh the uh other than oil


okay uh thank you charmaine, , okay ah this is a interesting question and thank you for the insight so , so you talked about a few things one of them was uh was uh was gonna be my uh my my main points uh and thanks for bringing it up the point on regulation so


I I think you know maybe let me address your first point on uh regulation I think there's two parts to it one is passing the the bill passing the law and the second part is the enforcement , so I think the second part is uh in my opinion a lot more important than the first part because if you don't regulate if you are not able to enforce a regulation I think what's what's really the purpose and what's the point of how's the effectiveness gonna be judged so to to your point on on on regulation being more effective


uh when it comes to environmental problems I I I disagree with that because of the fact that, I agree that you can pass more regulations pass more bills in parliament but I think when it comes to the enforcement I think that is where uh there's going to be a lot of challenges and and maybe let me let me support that with uh a few examples


so let's take a highly regulated country let let's look at a country like uh like like germany for example alright so germany's a very highly regulated country, okay they are very strict on carbon emissions et cetera so that then


for example car manufacturers in germany all have to adhere to very strict levels of uh carbon emissions alright so , this this also applies to a multinational car corporations that actually manufacture in germany so to that extent let's let's look at what happened with uh Volkswagen right which is the largest car manufacturer in germany alright so what they did


you know there was this regulation, okay so what they did due to due to this regulation they thought of creative ways you know to come around the regulation, and they they actually were producing cars that were you know forty one times higher than uh level of uh carbon emission that was regulated by the government correct but you know what we what we don't understand is that


perhaps if uh if an educational approach was was uh pursued you know , you know what what I would do if if I was the the the german government would actually to to would be to subsidize into work with with uh you know Volkswagen's R&D team


to really figure out how to improve the effectiveness of the engine rather than trying to think of ways to evade or to go around the uh, the regulatory aspect of things so that's my point on Volkswagen this is a a real story uh by the way I'm not making this up, alright so that's on Volkswagen ya you may call it corporate greed et cetera but I would say you know being a corporate professional myself if if I have a valuable proposition and the government is helping me co-form or coexist a certain thing


to be honest let let's let's take a step back let's think about environmental problems environmental problems are always by products of production of manufacturing so we take a traditional industry take a look at the automobile industry, no one wants to have environmental problems right it's it's a by product no one's earning money from environmental problems I think that's important to establish uh because if you look at the culprits of environmental problems they are the big big branded companies your General Motors your Volkswagen et cetera


so if you look at it that way I think education would would entail working with the company to explain, or to rather show them the value proposition of doing certain things in a certain way that would help them to reduce their carbon footprint which going back to my earlier point carbon footprint is nothing but inefficiency in production that would thereby increase efficiency in production


as a corporate person what they are what they are interested in is efficiency if the efficiency were to go up you know the input output will be favourable to the company's perspective and that would increase improve their PMO it's it's uh it makes a lot of business sense to do that so that's why I think education or more of partnering with


companies and partnering with conglomerates from the government's perspective would be beneficial uh to the end to the companies who are the perpetrators uh you know who are sort of blamed for you know causing the environmental uh problems that we have today okay and uh so


I think thinking one step further so if we think about , if we think about a lot of uh, environmental problems that occur today you know it's due to things like dumping uh in the ocean, it is simply because of the ineffectiveness of regulations


so I I I wanna kind of step back and and and think about yes I agree that regulations can be passed as a matter of fact they even can be enforced but then there would uh this would bring about a different a different uh problem which would be illegal dumping you know even in singapore every day every year you have about about


twenty five to thirty companies that get, fined for illegal waste uh for illegal waste disposal they get fined something like eighty to ninety thousand dollars it's honestly, peanuts for these companies but my point is that it happens and it happens because there is regulation, but but you know people are just thinking of ways to get around the regulation and I think education would come in handy because it would teach the company is not only the importance of of uh environmental problems and to be honest I don't think companies care about it but I think if you can show companies that !hey! there's real value there's potential enhancements to your PMO


uh then I think companies will buy it hence I feel that education , is definitely a more viable and is the solution to environmental problems uh thank you


sure , I I, I think it's a time for open debate ah okay no no worries let me uh let me just address some of the points so interesting you brought about BCA and uh green mark incentive uh and and uh green mark certification and whatnot


so I I think taking a step back I think you know you at the start of the debate you talked about regulation I'm not going to go into the the definition of education because I think the ya you're right we kind of defined it in in different ways so, maybe addressing your point on on regulation you talked about the the stick approach but what what BCA is doing is hardly the stick approach uh as a matter of fact they have realised that the stick approach does not work so they're actually trying to go around the uh incentivise approach


so this is just a sidebar to your earlier point on on on the stick approach being more more more effective so I think by incentivising they are precisely doing, uh the opposite of of the stick approach uh so that's on , on on the on the BCA


okay uh ya fair point and I take your point so going back to uh another point that that I had and and it kind of slipped my mind earlier on so I would like to touch on that, nah no worries so ya I talked about uh so I I talked about uh you know


entity skirting the regulation you know which uh which which uh I I spoke about earlier, and I think maybe okay ya I agree that that is uh that is not the right thing to do why don't I take the example of the most common regulation with regards to environmental problem universally there is one solution to this which is


you know carbon permits or some people call them tradable pollution permits right, this is the universal sort of answer that uh the the EU has adopted that uh many countries in asia have adopted and if you look at the effectiveness of tradable pollution permits if you try to really peel the onion and understand how this works you will realize how flawed this uh this uh uh sort of mechanism is


yes it is effective in an ideal world uh similar to how uh if there was efficient recycling it would be effective but I think you know specifically on this point, if you look at how tradable pollution permits work you know it is really about ah about he who has the most he or she who has the most money can flex the most you know so if I'm a big entity if I'm a Shell if I'm my ExxonMobil you know I have uh the capital uh at my disposal


you know I have the holding power I have the deep deep pockets you know to invest a lot of money into tradable pollution permits, such that I don't really quite frankly I don't and it doesn't hit my PMO if you look at the pricing for tradable pollution permits it is made to cater to the bigger organisations whereas it's it's unfortunately it's it's the smaller organisations who are unable to afford these tradable pollution permits


who then you know are subject to you know trying to work around very tight parameters that are set simply due to the fact that most of these tradable pollution permits were bought out by the bigger corporations


ya uh I was doing that, ah no worries so ah no worries so now that we have uh established you know I I've taken basically the main environmental solution which is tradable pollution permits and outline the ineffectiveness of it, due to the fact that it's unfortunately purchased using money and you know it kind of goes into the whole


uh corporate uh corporate agenda or bigger corporations now maybe I will talk a bit more about education and I'll talk about you know for example the same companies that I spoke about so what what has happened for Shell and Exxon is that the government has partnered with them this is again of course my interpretation and my understanding of the term education


uh which I have defined at the at the outset so using that definition what the governments have done very effectively is actually to work with these big, conglomerates to actually show them the value of sustainable and clean energy and this has been done over the years with shell and it has benefited not only the company but it has benefited a lot of people through increased employment through greater diversification of the business also


it is of course effected it has benefited rather the the the local government the local government entities as well, so I think I would say you know if I were to do a apple apple comparison I would think about education through my definition of, working partnership with uh with corporate entities I would call it public


private partnerships you know uh PVP for short right so if I would look at the PVP and weigh that against you know tradable pollution permits which is used universally I would say that the former definitely has more effectiveness and the latter with the latter could be just doesn't the latter does not give any incentive to big companies with financial power financial muscle


to to save on any process but the former actually provides a real value proposition and a real P and L impact, uh to these corporations and to my earlier point corporations are the main culprit when it comes to environmental problems


ya correct and and that that sort of brings oh sorry


so I guess I have to start off with uh because I am the proposition uh the debate topic in this case is how fast recycling the problem the answer to the problem of waste, my view is that recycling is the answer to the problem of waste uh there are some reasons that I will give to support my proposition


firstly I think recycling is the answer the reason is because it is it is difficult to stop the current, population from consuming less the reason is that a lot of things now are very cheap so it is easier to it is easier and people have higher purchasing power therefore they are better able to purchase things so to stop people from


consuming more would be very difficult because that is a behavioral it's something that is uh it is something that is innate in human behaviour, so the only way to continue to save the earth would be to use recycling which means that we recycle things that we no longer use rather than getting people to consume less so I think that is the first reason why I think recycling is the answer to the problem of waste


the second reason why I think recycling is the answer is because we have come quite far since we have started our journey towards recycling as humankind the reason is because of technology now with very


advanced technology we are able to recycle a multitude of different things and different materials so therefore I think that will definitely increase the amount of recycling that we can do and I think that will be an answer to the problem of waste


so in summary I think uh there are two main points that I wish to put forth, the first being that it is easier to recycle things or encourage people to recycle rather than getting people to consume less this is because of people's propensity to consume that have been increased


secondly I think recycling is the problem to the to the problem of waste because of technological advancements to recycling, uh that's all I have


okay I suppose then uh next I will have to I suppose then uh I should I should basically , continue uh okay maybe I I hear your points uh


I there are some points which I agree with and there are some points that I don't agree with so much perhaps I could just help to summarize what you you spoke about just now so I think you spoke about how it is difficult to recycle in singapore, uh you also spoke a little bit about uh having the three Rs reduce reuse and recycle and your I think in your view using that reducing would be uh much better solution as compared to recycling being the answer to the problem of waste


maybe I will just address the first point which is that uh you think it's difficult to recycle in singapore, first I think that is not true uh this because the government has put in place many uh recycling bins in every practically every void deck


and if you were to look at the recycling bins that are placed under every void deck, it does not require you to divide your waste or divide a recyclable waste into different types of materials what they do is they expressly tell you you can put all sorts of recyclable products into that same bin and it will be sorted by someone else or they will find ways to recycle it in manners that


allow you to recycle various different types of things at one go, so I don't think that recycling is difficult in singapore by virtue of it being very accessible and being very convenient, uh secondly I think the question that we are to debate here it's not limited to singapore it's limited eh it's not limited to singapore alone if you were to look across across singapore and refer to look perhaps a little further away you will


I think recycling is a very very huge it's a very huge part of their culture recycling is not frowned upon at all in fact it is the standard by which most people live by, so I I I think maybe if you were to come back circle back to the question


I think the question is about recycling bin the answer to the problem of waste in general and I think it still is or maybe if you think not so much of singapore but I think it is quite a bit of an answer for singapore but it definitely is the answer to the problem of waste in other bigger areas


perhaps in europe, secondly I think you second point you raised uh which I would like to address is that of reusing being the answer so I think uh the point that you were that you actually brought up which is the biodegradable items such as uh instead of having single use plastics


we move towards biodegradable options uh perhaps disposable uh cutlery or utensils using made from corn, uh perhaps uh my point is that I think these things it's precisely because they are biodegradable therefore you can say that you are recycling these waste because these things can be put back into the environment and then it can be recycled


so in that sense I don't think the answer to uh to reducing waste is reducing but more of recycling and uh maybe I will come back to my point on the consumption, I think uh human consumption is a little bit difficult to change I think the behavioural trends that we are seeing and that people are consuming more which you have actually agreed to in your response so I think if we go down that line the logical answer would be


that it's going to be difficult for reduce for reducing consumption to be an answer to reducing waste so these are my, points for the proposition thank you


thank you I think now we should be moving into the open debate portion ya perhaps I'll just address a couple of points that you have brought up uh, I think maybe uh let's start with the point on how you think that reducing is the is the best way to go forward I think your sorry let me just start with the point on recycling and I think your point is that


recycling only fifteen to eighteen percent if I remember correctly uh what you said is that only fifteen to eighteen percent of the stuff is that we we think we are recycling is actually in fact recycling, I think that it addresses the efficiency of recycling that is the problem of


an inefficient way of recycling items and I think that can definitely be resolved if uh we have if we, invest sufficiently in it such that recycling becomes more efficient so I think the question here is about whether it is the answer I think with sufficient technological advancements uh I think recycling is still the answer once we resolve the issue of having efficient recycling being done


uh I think the objection is really that it's inefficient at the moment I think if we were to make it more efficient which I'm sure we can , , then I think you still will agree with me that recycling is actually the the answer to the problem waste second point that I'd like to bring up your I think you you mentioned that uh you still think that reducing is more effective and you think and you you you basically told you basically responded to my point on consumer behaviour you pointed out that


we we never wanted to recycle in the past but uh, actually the past couple of years uh the mentality towards uh recycling has shifted so why not for, reducing instead my answer to that is simple it is that we have come a long way since we have now accept uh since most of us now accepted recycling as a way of life so I would say that recycling it it ranks first in people's mindset in so far as the three Rs are concerned


so if we have come a long way and recycling is one of the top is the top, that's the first priority between the three Rs why should we move and should we move towards reducing and then use reducing as a an option


or we push reducing to something that people want to, uh adopt reducing the uh meaning a reduction buying lesser things uh as we try to adopt this kind of a behaviour when they already have recycling now finally ingrained in them recycling has gotten a headstart in so far as the three Rs are concerned in solving the problem of waste why do we want to now move to another


R and then we try to change their mindset, since recycling is at the forefront why don't we continue to use that as the answer, and I think that's the most efficient answer I think maybe I should let you jump in now because we are lacking time


debate topic two okay I think I should start, uh I'm the proposition the debate topic in this case is that the world is too dependent on oil I am the proposition uh I I I'm of the view that the world is indeed too dependent on oil I've a couple of points uh to address uh to to bring this to bring this point forward


so the first point is that I think the world is definitely too dependent on oil I think uh this much is evident from the fact that there was a recent oil crisis whereby the, uh futures or rather the value of oil actually went negative, uh I think this shows and because the oil price went negative


uh actually there was an entire it it cost the world to basically stop in so far as oil trading was concerned and there were many issues that came uh after that, I think this and it's precisely because I think another point that I wanted to bring up in relation to this is also that there were many companies who in singapore especially uh hin leong for example which actually Hin Leong and ZenRock which actually went bankrupt because the they were speculating too much on the oil futures


uh so I think this shows how the world is definitely dependent on oil, even as a trading mechanism even as a hedging mechanism the moment all went into negative uh the whole world was was sort of in turmoil I think that's the first point I wanted to bring up uh being be being that the


financial markets or the financial system is very dependent on oil price and that shows how much the world is dependent on oil, that's the first point the second point I will like to bring up is that, I think in so far as using oil as ah, as a source of energy for the world I think we are definitely still too still too dependent on it because we have not uh explored alternative energy uses uh sufficiently enough so by way of an example uh singapore is a sunny tropical island it enjoys sunny weather almost all year around


but yet we still use oil natural resources coal as our natural gas sorry natural gas as our main source of energy rather than for example solar energy, I think these two points erm I will just bring these two points up to show that the world is too dependent on oil one from financial perspective


secondly from the environmental perspective


thank you uh okay maybe I'll just readdress some of the points before we go to the open debate uh okay I think where you're coming from I see your point I think uh what you've pointed up rightfully so which is uh that there are many , alternatives towards uh using oil as an energy source so for example you brought up the examples of solar energy you also brought up the examples of nuclear energy as an alternative energy source


but I think what the question is really looking at is whether the world is too dependent on oil the question is not that the world is solely dependent or if we were to look at it from that perspective, uh I think we are still too dependent on oil as you have rightfully brought up the point on very many many alternative sources of energy if there are so many alternatives then why are we still even using something that is non is a non-renewable resource


so my perspective is that we are still too dependent on oil the point being that we should not even be using it unless we are unable to afford these alternative energy sources and I think if I were to come back circle a little bit back to the example of singapore


we definitely can afford to have more alternative energy sources but what are we relying on we are still relying on oil as our primary, as our primary energy source rather than for example solar energy so I think if we were to look at the question a little bit more carefully uh I still think that the world is indeed too dependent on oil because there many alternatives available but we choose not to use them


we choose not to rely so much on them we choose to continue using oil a non-renewable resource, I think your second uh sorry actually that was that was your second point so that was in response to your second point maybe I will just touch a little bit about the point


on oil consumption and I think you went a little bit into the pricing of oil I think at the end of the day you are correct it is a matter of demand and supply but I think what we need to look at is why is it that , just demand and supply of a single energy source can result in many companies going bankrupt I think that shows


the amount of the that shows exactly my point which is the dependence that we have on oil if we are not dependent on it if companies are not dependent on that then we won't have all these turmoil just because the oil prices change at the end at the end of the day


well it's just a resource just like how for example palm uh for example corn is for example uh uh oats I'm I'm looking at it in terms of like uh resources or materials uh why is it that when oil prices change


the entire world goes into flux whereas if we have for example a change in the pricing of maybe for example rice for example the world the world doesn't stop the world continues running I think that if we look at that in and of itself it shows that the world is too dependent on oil


hi sorry uh sorry if it's just stop uh just now I I see my phone the part two debate topic two right it it stopped recording I think it


there's now a play button and then there's the stop button and there's a submit but then the the clock says five dot dot twenty six dot dot ninety two, okay then there's a part three debate topic three


ya so sorry ya


thank you, okay uh I think we are at the open debate point now uh I think, there are there are some points I I honestly speaking there are some points that you've brought up that I kind of agree with but I think, the the crucial question that we have to ask ourselves when we look at whether the world is too dependent on oil is if let's say I were to suddenly decide okay uh let me stop having let let me stop uh let me stop


looking at oil as a energy source right uh at at this juncture in time will the world suddenly stop and I think my answer would be that yes it will definitely stop, things will just run to a grinding halt uh we won't be able to have energy we won't be able to uh run many systems for example our MRTs everything they will stop


and I think that in itself if you were to answer that question then then really I think we have to uh if you uh your answer to that is the same as mine which is that ya I think things will stop running if we were to suddenly put a halt on oil supply now, then I think we we can agree that ya then then definitely the world definitely should be too depend it's definitely too dependent on oil I think if let's say your answer is no we can still run on as usual then maybe then ya we have to agree to disagree because I think the point here is that we are too dependent on it I think


definitely if you are asking me if we are do we use oil as do we use oil in our day to day lives maybe the answer could be yes it could be no it could be maybe but when you talk about too dependent I think, in so far as too dependent is concerned I think my response would be yes it is too dependent because if I were to answer my question the answer would be yes the world will stop especially in singapore for example and I think you have also rightfully considered that


uh singapore we place too much emphasis on oil and I think I can give a little bit of perspective to that and that's because we are surrounded by countries who use a lot a lot of oil or their economy is surrounded or rather supported by oil as uh


as a resource so if you were to look at for example malaysia, malaysia has a lot of oil plantations palm oil plantations specifically in fact that is one of their, uh I would say uh money making uh resource right now uh their palm oil plantations so I think it is because we are surrounded by indonesia and malaysia which use a lot of oil or very dependent on oil or rather their economy is very dependent on oil so as a port we kind of have to support that kind of


uh uh oil as a resource rather than for example maybe corn or maybe corn maybe because that's from the US so it is not so relevant to us because it is further away yup


but actually I maybe I have to stop you there if we do not look at just singapore alone you have just said in your I think your earlier points that uh the reason why uh oil prices are watched so closely is because they are pegged to the US dollar


so maybe if I were to ask you if let's say uh the if we were to suddenly stop the supply of oil what will happen in the US maybe that would be a better question rather than asking about singapore


debate topic three, okay uh ya so I will start because I'm the proposition, okay uh so the solution to all environmental problems is more regulation not education do you agree that's the debate topic ah for debate topic three I'm the proposition so I agree that the solution is more regulation and not education


uh maybe I will start with two points first so the first point that I would like to bring up is that I think education in general it has already been I think it is uh, I think we are all at least in the developed countries we are all uh we are all aware of the environment environmental problems that the world is facing so I think in so far as education is concerned everyone is aware of the problems the question is is there sufficient incentive for us to move


the world towards a more environmentally friendly uh with uh with towards a more environmentally friendly climate or to do something about the environmental problems that we will face so to that I think the answer would be more regulation because I think uh when we do


there are two there are two ways to regulate things right you can use the carrot or the stick approach, my view is that the stick approach IE more regulation would be more useful this is because this gives an incentive or rather it it forces people to adopt uh environmental solutions and be more environmentally friendly I say this because I think if let's say we were to think about for example in china


where environmental regulation extremely lacks, uh I think you can tell that uh the the air pollution in china is extremely bad this is because uh they do not have sufficient regulation or laws in place or rather even if you were they were to have laws in place it is not sufficiently enforced and I think that's the reason why you see that they actually face a lot more environmental problems than for example


the countries in europe that's because in europe you have a lot more environmental regulation, their government is a lot stricter and when it comes to enforcing penalties monetary penalties against companies when do not they do not abide by the environmental laws or recycling laws uh in fact uh because over there there's a duty to recycle


uh in fact people recycle a lot more over there as compared to for example in singapore where uh recycling is sort of like voluntary or it's not enforced upon by with regulation, so I think if you were to take these countries as examples you would be able to tell that uh countries generally which have more regulation uh they definitely tend to


be a lot more uh the people there definitely tend to be a lot more environmentally friendly, that's the first point uh which is I think the solution is really regulation, and not education uh that's the first point the second point is maybe if we were to look at a regulation in higher on higher regulatory


environment so perhaps we can look at the international sphere between countries uh I think with the, the uh WTO emphasizing more on the regulation aspect of recycling uh of uh eh sorry not WTO uh the environmental uh uh for


basically the I forgot the body's name but the the body that talks about environmental problems uh I think, if you were to look at the where there are treaties across the world to sort of like deal with carbon emission I think if you were to look at that I think uh when there is more regulation there is more stick uh in the game for example


where countries sign to a treaty I think that really helps to push the world a bit more forward whilst I don't think it is the best solution per-say but I think these countries who are involved in the international treaties they already know that there is a problem or rather we are moving towards a increasingly unsustainable environment uh I think


uh pushing towards regulation making countries sign, uh MOUs or making it uh legally making them legally obligated to follow certain environmental laws I think that would be, that would help to resolve problems on a more national international basis because I think environmental problems are these are not problems that as faced by one nation alone it's actually faced by the entire world so I think regulation on an international sphere would be definitely be the solution the long term solution


for uh environmental sustainability not so much education, ah ya I'm I'm done


thanks uh okay I think I think I hear you uh I think when you talk about education you are thinking more along the lines of partnering with organisations uh to help them to improve their PNL


whereas the kind of education that I'm thinking about is a little bit more elementary if if you will a little bit more about educating people about the pros and cons of environmental protection, educating the young since when our our young ones when they're in school about the dangers of the environmental problems that we are facing


and to adopt a more , uh a more environmentally friendly lifestyle I think when I think education I think that's more, , the kind of education that I'm thinking about here not so much about uh companies working with uh working with for example uh governments uh to


do more RND to look at reducing the their carbon footprint I think that that that may in your definition be education but I'm not sure if that's what education means in this debate topic I think it's a little bit more, uh plain vanilla if you will the kind of education which is basically educating the young educating the general public


of the importance of solving these environmental problems now uh but having said that uh even though we have slightly different views of what education entails or what education means in this case maybe I will just circle a little bit back to the point on the enforcement because I think that's where we we kind of cross a little bit more sorts or things are more we are more on point with each other


so I think uh your point is that there is a lack of enforcement if there are laws in place but there is no enforcement then really uh what's the point of these laws right, uh there are two there are two uh there are two uh there are two points I'd like to bring up the first is that you have brought up some points of people skirting the laws but


I think what you don't or rather what you ignore are people who actually follow the laws so maybe if I were to bring us more closer to home so we talk about the in singapore buildings and BCA standards uh this is not mandatory but there are, but there are certain uh


there are certain frameworks that uh companies uh building companies can follow and abide by to get for example the BCA green mark the BCA the platinum mark, to ensure that these buildings are built in a more environmentally sustainable manner while these are not laws per se but these are regulations they incentivise they explain to the companies that eh this is actually something you may want to look into to get the BCA green mark


and surprisingly many many great many great construction companies do actually want to strive to get the BCA platinum BCA green mark and I think that shows that regulation does definitely help whilst there are some black sheep out there like for example you brought up the example of Volkswagen


uh I I will not deny the example I think the example is valid but I think uh that is just a few of the black sheep that we're talking about but majority of the majority of the companies who follow the law who stay within the regulatory framework these are the people that still at least contribute to conserving the environment or


uh progress the country or their company in a more environmentally sustainable manner, so I think uh in so far as uh laws are concerned they they are not just uh I think I think you are you are being a little bit unfair when you only bring up the black sheep I think what we need to what we should focus on uh would be the majority of companies who kind of act within the regulatory framework


so that's the first the second is if let's say we take away the regulatory framework we need to say that it's no longer illegal to do these things I think the environmental problems will just , become a lot worse at a much faster pace in fact I think it will be exponential because there is no stick


so called uh there is no punishment out there that that has a general deterrent effect so whilst you think that some people skirt the skirt the law but if there is no such law in place then I think the environmental problems will become a lot worse because it's no longer illegal to do dumping in fact many people would do that because that's the cheapest alternative


so I think come back to your question while it is not a solution to all environmental problems per se uh I think it is definitely, more effective than education and when I say education I talk about the plain vanilla kind of education that I spoke about that I was referring to and also a little bit about the collaborative education that you were referring to in your point


ah perhaps ah !aiya! ya ya please please you can you can start