and I think in this regard it's pertinent to note that, actually just a week ago Necessary Stage one of the many theatre companies like you mentioned SRT Wild Rice Pangdemonium Necessary Stage was losing their space at marine parade community building


uh they they they were they are going to lose it from august next year, and, they had to they they garnered a lot of support on I mean I I know one of the people posted about it on his Instagram in a very uh passionate way


uh lamenting the fact that the people's association kick them out didn't even tell them and they had to find out from the street in fact and although they've been occupying the space for twenty years and the company has been running for thirty three years


uh it was telling of the little value and appreciation of the arts and artists in singapore, and I think instances like this, , freely bring to the fore the actual uh support that singaporeans are willing to give the arts notwithstanding that they engage with the arts once it's made accessible to them


and, I think , this support is very important because this is what keeps the arts going, uh while uh on the I mean newspapers report about how the government keeps, making institutions giving the arts


funding I think the very fact that arts need that much more support along with these one of incidents that I hear about uh arts not getting enough support is, telling of how singaporeans don't value arts enough for example uh I think in december last year community and youth minister grace Fu said that uh the arts do need greater support from companies and individuals in order to flourish in singapore and I think another very


uh important aspect other than the little other than the lacking support that the arts get in singapore is how arts, uh theatre dance or music is viewed as a career path in our very meritocratic in our meritocratic mindset of uh singaporeans from an economic or jobs' point of view


, in fact uh I I think in some news article that I read a student said that a a career in the arts is still uh perceived negatively as one with a an unstable income or maybe uh, uh uh an a a backup option especially by the older generation and this career path is still


stigmatised and uh I think we have to acknowledge that this affects the I I mean while singaporeans are are are happy to engage with the arts as it's made accessible to them the way that arts as a career path is viewed, does


affect that singaporeans won't uh truly respect the arts enough to appreciate their appeal and , I think those are my two main points is that the support that arts get, isn't as forthcoming as it always seems


uh in the case of the Necessary Stage being kicked out of its space despite the many years it has stayed there and also from how it's viewed negatively as a career path in our, uh generally meritocratic mindset which prizes on maybe science careers uh STEM careers uh law


uh law uh legal and medical careers and uh holds them to a higher standard than, arts ya, ya thank you uh Nash on to you


okay what I would have to say to that, is that, appreciating the appeal of something can be quite superficial if, you don't recognise where it's coming from if you don't support, uh it's, making its creation


and it can it's only genuine, uh in the case of singaporeans appreciating the appeal if they are willing, if if you can see that they do value and, do respect, how the theatre dance or music uh expressions come into being


and so I think, in in the in the spirit of, being genuine in , uh our appreciation of the appeal, it would be good it it would be uh in fact relevant to I mean uh talk about


like the the support being lacking, because, this makes it this makes theatre dance or music, not even , they can't even be created to be given to the singaporeans and it's very superficial if we just talk about uh singaporeans engaging with what is already out there


because, what is out there has come out there with much uh effort from the theatre companies dance companies and for this appeal to be appreciated, a very underlying factor is that singaporeans have to


truly support , where, uh the creation of these art forms and so what they produce and how it's being received is important, but what they produce is equally important and for this uh


singaporeans I mean the the support, that uh they get, the lack of support is uh, uh of a relevant point to take note of


thank you Nash for your points so , your your point as I gathered is that, art engagement has always been more of a, uh hobby or something people do out of leisure, and, interest uh notwithstanding that it's more accessible now uh resulting in more people


engaging with it but it's generally it requires the time, and the money that uh it takes more than it gives and because of that it's something that's not needed to survive and I think to that I just want to talk about your conception of art itself


I feel like in talking about going to art museums , buying art pieces, you you would be imagining a sort of very narrow expensive bourgeoisie kind of consumption of art


uh by going to museums concerts theaters, but I argue that, , actually uh gwenn seemel uh an artist and art advocate did consider


that, we already spend money and time on art now and as you, briefly mentioned it is uh because of the greater access that we have today to the arts, and this extends beyond the museums and uh concerts and theatres kind of art that you pitch so high as requiring so much time and so much money but I would like to bring it down to the level of everyday things like TV Netflix movies


books clothing wall paintings, and making sure maybe your garden is looks nice it has a nice aesthetic all that is also arts, and, uh manifestations of art, and


and I think recognising that these these these forms of art that extend beyond the narrow , uh uh high high uh art is, crucial to, coming to the realisation that art is cumulatively fundamental to our existence


its , I mean if we look away from binaries off you know what we need to survive what we need to breathe if we just look at it taking stock of, us as human uh social creatures


as, people as as creatures part of an enlightening enlightenment process we cannot as a civilised society, regard ourselves as, achieving any sort of enlightenment without


engaging exposing ourself, to the with the arts, uh in a very fundamental way in our cumulative way because it comes up in very small aspects in our life, and, and art is I would argue a necessity in


a world of imperfection and struggles and suffering, and in a sense we all are the protagonists of our own lives we live within our own selves our consciousness our perceptions, and through this


we have sudden expressions of art and so do other people and art is that medium to which, perhaps, we have the capacity to shape our perception to consciously uh accommodate other,


the perception of others and for it it I mean taking this broad-based view of art and what we need to survive, I would argue that art is a necessity and in in the form of how you define luxury as needing to spend time and money I think the kind of arts that


that, puts in uh it puts you uh causes us to imagine is not uh oh Nash went went offline okay anyway ya, , so I I would argue that, , it's a much broader way that we should look at it and not just in terms of time money and access to the high forms of art


but, also , the fact that it's cumulatively fundamental to our existence as creatures part of an enlightenment process in a world of imperfection where we do need arts to consciously


accommodate uh uh uh our perception of the world and others thank you, I'm sorry Nash I think you lost me there did you


sure so I have another point actually other than this very broad based broad based view of survival I would also argue that for artistic millennials err there's an era of artistic millennials, make a living out of their craft in itself and I think definitely it comes from a position of privilege to be able to


you know engage in the arts as a full-time profession and consider that as your main money-making , uh thing and in in this aspect I would say necessity uh when I say necessity would mean something that is crucial to survive in that it brings the money home it puts the bread on the table and


and , although it comes from a certain privilege that they're even able to get on, such professions that are of art instead of maybe going for more laborious as jobs I think this era of artistic millennials


, are a very real group of people who do make a living out of their craft itself and therefore it is a necessity for these people, and Nash for your benefit I just want to uh talk uh repeat my last point a small summary is that


I guess, uh we we need to see a more broad-based perception of what the arts is in in uh beyond those high classes of art like concerts museums and stuff and bring it down to a lower level and recognise that it's, cumulatively fundamental to our existence as human creatures


as part of an enlightment enlightenment process and in a world of imperfection where we need arts to you know go uh outside of ourselves and uh gather and shape our consistently shape our perception of the world and other


such human uh social creatures around us, so ya two points one is that it in a broad-based perception of what survival art is a necessity and number two there is an era of artistic millennials today who are making a living out of the arts and therefore arts is a necessity for them


do we read together okay


the proposition we like to accept the notion that the education should be only concerned with what is useful in life, point one would be that education is often overloaded with information that are ultimately redundant


a large part of what is deemed useful in life is typically determined by experiences of parents, teachers and governing bodies, whose often exaggerated notions of what society demands ends up with students' learning skills that are examinable


but ultimately redundant, with parents creating expectations that are outdated and teachers offering advice that might be narrow or based on their contract obligation to support national objectives, it might become it becomes difficult for new graduates to match this expectation


to the job market, much less their own desire and dreams, in response to this government also struggle to grow their economies to increase the number of jobs to meet demand, this vicious cycle then indicate that the value of certificate that they get from their degrees are often worthless and do not ensure that one can get a job


therefore, it it alludes to the fact that education, is always not necessary useful and it overload students with unnecessary information


okay so the proposition agrees with the point where, is beyond just uh what you learn in science err and math and it's to do with like what you said in the moral education that you can get from education so I do agree with that point so in this case the question states that education should only be concerned with what is useful in life


so in this case if we were to reframe education and include this aspect having moral education and uh ethics all this into education itself while this regarding unnecessary information which is what uh my point my first point is alluding alluding towards


which is uh the degree programmes filled with a lot of what you say nonsensical information overload, then, my point my point on why education should be concerned with only what's useful life is sound, because currently in the landscape based on personal experience I'm currently studying in uh NUS


some of the modules we learn do not really apply directly to what we can can just not really translate to what it seems to practical skills, so often I we I often question myself the, educational value of actually learning this am I in for the education or actually am I in for the qualification that it offers afterwards so focusing nearly on getting qualification to survive day today can no longer survive as a viable strategy anymore rather I think it should be more focusing what is


key that will help me in my internship and my job afterwards


okay so I do agree with err what you just say broadening uh your experiences and in some aspect, the stuff that we learn train our soft skills and our analytical skills which you know it then uh in return when we study our more specialised degree it'll help in it'll help a lot


so I think the question here will then be, the current landscape let's say in singapore, everything is very is generalised and if we were to look at the secondary school education, there's not much


is not there's not much option to to actually choose what you want to, learn and study so everyone have to you know go through the standard science math but let's say for instance a person, a very driven person that knows his passion and business like in passion in doing business and entrepreneurship


how can he, actually benefit from this current education landscape that MOE has given out, so this is why I should say that the education should only be concerned with what's useful in life and starting from young given that the person from young knows what he's doing and has the passion to work towards it so this is my grievances actually especially towards the current


primary school to secondary school landscape in singapore and I think it's also pretty common in other developed developed countries, so, that's my point on one that's one and then another one is that I also agree that what you have just said the qualifications


are basically, redundant in our daily life now cause what matters now is that, practical skills are much required, so I think one, thing that we can think about truly useful skills can then only be, uh understand when we go out to work and then we think back and then realize that actually what we learned in our


programme itself, uh in our ten years of education actually help us so but then I have one question for the opposition is that, how do you determine uh what's useful in life since we are debating this back and forth, this what's useful in life is actually important in shaping how our education landscape will be like in singapore


so I yeah talking about this current current landscape in singapore now I think the question should be uh, can we can reframe the question rather education should be concerned should be concerned with what is useful in life but then in the case of singapore, uh I think rather much singapore the singapore government has been


shaping our education such that it it shoehorn ourselves into very useful jobs such as the, finance economics and all those PMETs that is often debated in the in the GE elections rather than focusing on the arts scenes itself


so I think this is actually a very practical as it translate to very tangible GDP growth that we have experienced for the past few years so uh this is a very right approach that I agree with the government that is currently doing because I don't see the value of uh education in arts and in other


aspects that don't really translate to a proper economic growth for singapore so I therefore would like to uh agree with the point education, should be only concerned what useful in life as to put it in the singapore case where they push forth very


like in very, practical, skills based education


yeah yeah but I I do agree with your point on uh let's say like it's very restricted in terms of career advancement but I think a key factor that I would like to propose is pragmatism, you look as singapore itself what are we we are we are considered a small little dot with little resources what are we if we were to go into arts what are we if we will go to stage and everything


so I think a good mindset here will be actually evaluate our current circumstance that we have no natural resources and what we have to do is actually leverage on our expertise on finance and then having a niche a unique proposition that will push singapore


uh yeah, oh okay uh like push singapore and then, have uh in the world standing itself


two debate topic two


okay the proposition would like to agree the notion that conformity is the main of all schools, so point one would be that, part one, will be for my understanding I would like to set this limit in the context of singapore where conformity is actually a very part of very integral


part of our lives and our social standard so from understanding conformity is an action in accords in prevailing social standards attitude and also practices, what our school do it's also the same, to teach students to have a socially acceptable


behaviors so in this case is like having a framework that all students can abide to so in every school civil and moral education is compulsory lesson where students must attend no matter which country, we're standing in and it's also to raise the social awareness so that they understand that singapore as a society who are we at what's the norms of the society that we have and to maintain the source of social fabric of our multiracial society


so in this case I would say it give us our kind of template and, framework for uh singaporeans students to adhere to at this younger age because at the younger age students tends to be very impressionable easily influenced when given the choice so


while having uh while being confirmed to when being forced to be conformity everyone will then know what's the correct thing to do and what to follow in society and subsequently, like you can see that the education don't really restrict it uh all the way up to your tertiary level is up to before tertiary level where at conformity is required but after that


everything is very individualised you're given the liberty to go out to do what you want and what and to achieve what you ever you desire to so I would say this is a very good starting point for, education in singapore


okay so I do I want to refute two points of yours but before I I want to clarify uh you say that our predecessor are wrong in what sense uh if I'm not wrong


yup so I do agree I want to refute you drawing on your uh example you used earlier like in the US now there's a lot of you said that there's a lot of riots and there's a lot of tension going on but you just look at the education system of US what are they are they conformity they're not but then you look at the case uh let's say china


china prides itself on being conformity uh being conformist country so in the case of china I'll say that, they are doing very well in in, growing up there are students in this, conformist, kind of landscape and you can see pretty much you stated that innovation might be affected creativity might be affected when you're not when you're in a conformist kind of country


I beg to differ like china, they are able to emulate and produce and compete with, Samsung and Apple and one example is Huawei Huawei is suppressing all odds, and defying all expectations to be the best in the world in fact I think they might be even are projected to


surpass Apple in the near future, and why is this possible it's because of china conformist education, another point why is so good is this I like to draw from china at the same time singapore, the reason why we have this very conformity mindset and it's instilled in our education is because of


order, we need order in order for society to progress if everyone were to be more and understand a certain, mindset that the government is trying to push for then there will be no social unrest there will be less social unrest and there will be less uh radical behaviors


so in the case let's let's look at US again US are full of radical behaviors you see terrorist attacks random terrorist attacks at school why is this because because everyone is free to think what they are allowed they can be very liberal and to the extent where they go kill themselves


and kill other people, whereas in china you don't really see that often and in singapore everyone knows that this is the wrong thing to do because of, education system that taught them to do so everyone's guided by the same principle at the same moral compass in order to act and behave in a society


I would say that even though china might have a lot of flaws in this conformist kind of, education they still produce results they still produce order and are the citizens happy even though it's very is is a very stifling kind of


education I would say yes according to a research done, china citizens trust their government more than anyone in the world, and you can see by the polling results that is illustrated uh across the news, #xi jin ping# being the president for a few terms a prime minister for a few terms and how the CCP uh a~are able to consolidate their power and push for very good policies just because of


very good policies and and our leaders are groomed by the chinese education system, so I strongly agree that conformity is the main school main aim of all school if not you will become like it the case that happened in US riots shooting radicalised behaviors and yes they might have innovation like


Tesla or whatsoever but, is bring social unrest worth it for the exchange of this creativity


ya I do agree with whatever you just said in terms of uh the education system uh the modules that you learn it does not have to be conform to a certain guidelines that we have to follow so, ya I do agree so now I agree more of your points and now I like to bring this question and reframe it in the angle such that conformity should be aim of


minimum of all schools but is dependent on your political situation of your environment especially in a country itself so uh one example I would have to give is in the case of singapore in singapore as we all know there are we lack resources we lack many things


so in order to instil control and order what the government require is the obedience from its uh citizenship a set of guidelines that they will follow and trust the government so how did we do it in the past is that PAP, used this conformity mindset and instill in our education such as all our parents and our forefathers are able to


graduate with this uh mindset and what they learn from it is you can see it translate to very tangible, outputs such as improving our GDP growth and making singapore from a third world become to a first world country so this is very much so I'm trying to say here is that conformity is required in countries that do not uh that are that do not have much


economic success and they want, they need order in order to progress forward and singapore's a great example of of it and I will dare say that thailand vietnam all the southeast asia countries they all are have conformist


attitude in their education system and yet they can still produce the GDP results the reason why conformist attitude is often debated and uh detest by many is because, it's a leap a western ideology that is propagated in our asian society the western themselves the western country themself they enjoy great success because


they started their independence and they have long history ahead that's why they they have a solid foundation and, they are able to just criticise our education system but when you think of it our country south east asia, and will really need this conformist


education system in our education system yeah


part three debate topic three


okay the proposition would like to agree with the notion that most people these days could and should be educated from home, so I would like to address this argument in a twofold firstly in understanding the in explaining the could and secondly in justifying the should so firstly for the could part most people these days and I like to set the context here which is


the case in the case of singapore so in, singapore most people or I dare say all people these days could be educated from home so uh it's during this period is very evident to see whether the efforts of self home based learning


is successful and based on the uh the news report that we have gathered from straits time and MOE states that, everyone regardless of your income bracket are able to access to devices to help them learn for for their home based learning so recently uh straits time


produce a report that says that MOE lends three thousand three hundred devices to students who need them for home based learning amid's COVID nineteen pandemic so I feel that regardless your cause the main indicating factor of why you can't


be educated from home is because of your income you do not have the necessary necessary resources or skill set to do it so in this case by having a laptop slash device it helps you with your learning and aids you with whatever you don't understand with


on top of that MOE also bridges the gap of a parent bridges the misinformed the lack of skill gap in terms of learning, wanting to know more so in this case they implemented a parent kit which helps parents to understand what their children is going through in this home based learning


and also to help their children in their education needs when they're learning at home so I feel that these days all people could be educated from home so moving on to my second form of my argument which is the should part most, people these days should be educated from home so I'm arguing this from a homeschooling based point of view so homeschooling is better because overall homeschool's children tend to excel academically and are better prepared


this is because, of the efficiency of having one to one classes rather than a packed classroom which allows parents and children flexibility in their schedule, so a home schooled student is faced with lesser distraction on a daily basis which allow him or her to cover more information in less time so it's no surprise actually that a homeschooled student


reaches when reaches the age of sixteen the student has covered material equivalent of a senior in a public school, so homeschool students are so prone to having stricter curriculum yet tailored to address their personal strength and need these characteristics often result in a maximization of their academic achievement so a a study


done by so this is a US based study that is done by a doctor lawrence, dank khoo and danny, no no sorry thank and national home education research institutes clearly shows that how a how home schools kids outperform public school kids about thirty to thirty seven percent more in all subjects


this according to the national centre of home education means that fifty four percent of homeschooled students in grades k, twelve are achieving scores in top quarter of population the US so therefore it this points to the fact that home school is very strong when used correctly and alludes the fact that all


people should be educated from home


sure thank you for your viewpoint danny but I'll clarify one point that you said uh, let's let's say if you were, to imagine that singapore have enough resources to be able to afford to send all child to homeschooling on a one on one basis then


be people it will then then it translates to question where should people then be educated from home, because of the benefits and outreach that you can produce from home schooling one one one on one


okay so the opposition which is you you tend to suggest that, people that be at that are homeschooled grow to become social outcasts and they are not really prepared for the hustles of the real world, but in fact the results of the recent study nonetheless points to exactly the opposite so


according to a research done by daniel Chan, doctor daniel Chan, although it is true that home school students do not interact with other people within classroom they do socialize through other mediums, so while seventy seven percent of public school kids spend their


afternoon playing video games or on computer, ninety eight percent of home schoolers are involved in programmess like dance lesson sports religious groups scouts volunteering and music, and also even though they spend a lot of time at at home like what you said they might spend more time watching television this is not true homeschooled children


watch sixty five percent less television than, non-homeschooled so again another research done by, doctor, victoria, claims that homeschoolers generally have fewer casual peer relationship but stronger friendships with tighter group of people


so ultimately, they do not stand to look lose out in the social aspect and in fact are able to have a, closer need of friendship that they can bond with for life


part, part one debate topic one


I mean I guess I agree with, with that point in a sense that uh, when you talk about, education I mean that is, there will there will definitely be a mismatch between what is being taught and what is needed in the workforce


but when it comes down to like whether education should be concerned should only be concerned with what is useful in life, I think it meant it, depends a lot on how we define what is useful in life, because as times change uh what the economy needs is definitely always gonna be it's gonna be constantly changing there'll be a shift in the work sectors


but we need to also educate the educate our children educate the people, with, like with life skills and especially at a young age right, how how are we to know what is considered useful to them in life


like every child every child is uh, every child is a different child they have their own strengths and weaknesses, and you can only find it uh you can only find it when, you go through a different kinds of experiences and if we so if we enforce everyone with


the same conformity the same, uh the same kind of education of like what of, what we think is useful to them in life, few years down the road it's gonna change, and it may not and it may not work for every single student as well cause maybe you are good at


math, at maths I'm good at arts, and if we all just do maths which is what society think is needed today, then, people like students like, uh like me who are good in arts you are just going to lose out in the long in the long run because it's not something that


we are good at, but because it is not deemed useful in life, we're not allowed to pursue it, so yeah this is why I think that education should not only be concerned with what is useful in life


I guess I agree with that point like in a sense, uh many degrees nowadays they they do throw in a lot of nonsensical stuff inside stuff that we may not need or we may or you may not use in the future but that is also because uh


degrees degrees are made uh, degrees are made to cater like, a big batch of people, that's why that there's like a few standard things that are needed to be taken, you can't expect education to apply to every single individual in life if not that will be that is going to be too costly and too complicated to implement


but, nevertheless uh education I feel like education, there is, all these things that we deem not useful in life we don't actually, uh see how they're it's it's because you don't actually see how they're helping to shape us


like, wait sometimes we learn things that you don't, that you don't think that you'll be using next time in future or in your workplace right, what it actually does it it can't it, teaches you how to learn something complicated on your own, and it trains you in other in other skills that you may not see consciously like let's say your analytical skills these are like the skills that


these are the skills that you, there's no measurable performance for it and you can't really, you can't really see yourself, uh you can't really like explicitly see ourself learning, all these but subconsciously it happens in your head and that's how you grow


and, this odd most of these things comes from, comes from learning what uh learning areas that are actually not useful in life, and, and also combining them with what you think is useful in life, and and a a combination of these two actually helps to shape helps


it helps a lot in creative thinking in thinking of new ways to new ways to do all all processes reduce how we, which is how we innovate and move further in in and move further in life and in our like and in technological advancement


which is yeah which is my point on why why I believe that education should be concerned, with not just what is useful but also broadening our perspectives by learning areas, that, by learning things that are not


uh are not what we think to be useful in life


ah yes this is the most important question right what exactly is useful in life, and like I said we cannot define what is actually useful in life most of these is actually shaped by what society needs which is then what the government imposes on the people


that, in uh in terms of propaganda that this is what is what, is useful in life, but as a matter of fact like I said earlier in my earlier arguments, we cannot define what is useful in life it's different for every single person, there are certain there are certain things that are quite standardised which is how to


uh I guess which is how to live, how to how to talk with how to talk with people, how to interact most of these are actually the soft skills, that is actually quite hard to teach whereas what the what education what the current education is doing right now it is educating


us on all mostly the hard skills especially when we are young and I agree with the first point that you actually made that, uh we should like as we should educate uh, actually young students they're forced to take a fixed, like fixed topics like math science let's say you want to play the guitar but uh but no the governments the government the ministry of education says that you have to take maths science GP even if you're not good in them even if you know that you you have a passion in something else


but yes uh, this is actually because like I said earlier we cannot tailor there are special schools to actually to tailor for these students, but, in term in general for the for for most of the public when you are at that young an age


as singaporeans we don't really know what we don't really know exactly what we want the only way we can do this is to explore and the government does restrict that by forcing us to take, uh a fixed a fixed fixed subjects, so uh


it's hard to say


I guess that would that would actually make sense if you think of it from an uh advancement point of view if you take from it from economics, factors but, in the long run what will happen what we are actually doing, by enforcing everyone to take like the same card like


the same kind of useful, uh useful subjects what we are actually doing is we are making our entire society, kind of, you are making them into like a same kind of people we are making them we are like creating a bunch of robots


because all of us are doing the same thing there is no diversity with all the arts being left out and, with this point to take note right arts if you look at like the US alone arts entertainment arts and entertainment they actually account for five percent of their GDP which is as a matter of fact quite large


singapore of course our talent we have a far we are still far from, reaching that point but that is also because of the fact that we are that's also because of the fact that, we do not cultivate this culture so, maybe we play the maybe we play a few instruments when we are young or we like to dance a bit when we are young but we don't ultimately that when it comes to the workforce that is no areas for us to and to enter to enter these places which is why we don't focus so much on


this this aspect these hobbies in our, these hobbies in our life and because of that like I said, what is singapore known as the finance industry, and, as a as a uni graduate when most of us come into uni from what I from what I see and generate from


uh friends who are talking is that most of them, no matter what degree do you you, you will end up in business most of them aim to go inside business, unless you are from engineering like even as a matter of fact even engineering students there are many of them who just who aim to go inside the finance industry and the reason is because


that they know that that is the that is the way to make money but should that actually be our mindsets in life cause if you are, like, if you are making money but you're not you're not doing you're not actually doing what you like, should that be how we are all living our life


we may be we may be rich but we're not as happy as we should be like take an example for bhutan bhutan is the happiest country in uh its claims, it has the, in terms of world ranking is considered the happiest country on the earth


is their GDP high no but their GDP growth it's quite stable it's still growing are their are their is their advancement very very high, they are not still really high you can't they can't compete on a singapore level, but still they are


considered a happiest place that they have sustainable it they have sustainable development, and they are actually doing quite well so I don't see why we can't aim to reach that level of advancement and diversity, while still progressing


in life


part two, debate topic two


I agree with you at the start of the main aim of actually conformity is actually to provide a common social standing so that people can uh can understand each other and it's quite important for place like singapore especially with racial diversity is a great place to start but nevertheless uh


even if you have conformity from a young age and it's easy to influence the young it should still be noted that, even though we teach all these social aspects to them it is some this uh, these social guidelines is moral guidelines that is being taught to them


who are they decided by they are decided by our predecessors they are being decided by our ancestors who are, who are they always right that if you think about it it is no and that is the one thing that we need to teach that we need to teach those our young as well that is not to follow blindly so


even if we teach them to be conform uh to conform to certain social standards you still have to emphasise that always question what you do because what maybe right back then may not necessarily be right now, and that being said also I shall move on to my next point which is that


conformity should not be should not actually be the main aim of all schools because if we emphasise on conformity we are lacking out on the individualism here, sure enough the students are getting the discipline their learning discipline from a young age they're learning they're learning how to respect each other from a young age but still you are lacking out on creativity and innovation and if we think about it in this current age in the long run


what we actually need for the economy to to grow to get especially for singapore to have a competitive, edge on other countries we don't have the we don't have natural resources the only thing that we do have is actually the people here and if we want to actually have a competitive edge if you want to outgrow other if you want to outgrow other countries


what we have to do is actually to provide uh to promote some sort of individualism so that it so that students can go and explore what they're good at what they like they can explore they can have, they can have the different kinds of experiences, and so that when they grow up they can people can come together and bring all their difference experiences together


and then have and then create, like some sort of innovation or R&D on new ways basically for the country to progress, so if we all have, if, the if if schools are emphasised on having conformity at a young age right what is gonna happen when we grow up next time we would be that everyone has the same experiences everyone thinks the same everyone knows the same things so what are we like


there is no, there is no way for have, a coming of different lines to generate something new because it's just the coming of the same minds to generate the same thing


I'm not saying that they are wrong but I'm saying that, they may not always be right so some of the things that that we are passing down to our, that some of the things that we are passing out down to our uh, to our to the next generation


it may not it may not really work for, them especially as, uh as the entire world as the entire world uh progresses or we can see as how, or as how we have especially in the US right now we have all these social uh there's all those social unrest coming on


because previously there was white supremacy and now people are trying to understand each other more people are trying to promote uh racial diversity racial understanding so that everyone can live together this is just uh one example of how how times are changing and what is applicable in the past may not be applicable now


okay I think I I I agree a lot with your points china do produce a lot of uh did china do produce quite number of great people and US do have a lot of social unrest and, yeah they do have a lot of social unrest being come uh being stemmed from individualism but I think that what we have to what I'm trying to say is that


conformity that we still do need some some sort of conformity in schools but what we what we don't want actually is just, is is for conformity to become the main aim, is moral understanding social understand social education this should be taught in this should be in a sense of uh some sort of conformity in schools


but when we talk about like other aspects of education the other aspects of uh like say the hard skills your your, the technical expertise this in these areas we should not have conformity because, because


it really it deprives a lot on the on, uh, on a technological innovation for which is required for a country to progress sure like you said china do have do do have a number of innovations come up but we do have to take note that a lot of these actually stems from initial uh from initial


innovations that were created by the US and if you look at the total population size alone the number of you know uh the number of people the that been, produced by china which are actually great people like #xi jin ping# or uh the founders of Huawei if you look at the numbers alone china has a way bigger population


so it's kind of expected for them to produce like one or two one or two great people who are one or two great innovative people great uh great thinkers who can who can change the world, looking especially like let's say you look at singapore we are a small country we are a small country if everyone conforms what are chances that we can produce these kind of these kind of talents when everyone is being taught the same with you have people like


if you want if you want to use like china as an example you have people like uh, jack Ma the founder of Alibaba, did he go through the normal route did he go through the normal conformity route no he he was rejected by so many different things even in education also he was uh he was being rejected then he did not actually he did not really conform to society and that was how he and that was how he managed


to breakthrough into the e-commerce market and create Alibaba, which is why uh I believe that china does produce great leader like china does produce a great thinkers great minds and US US does have a lot of, uh social unrest coming out but it's all in is a lot of talking about how we do it in moderation conformity should not should still not been the main aim of all schools we need to have we need to provide


uh we need to promote some sort of individualism thinking, while making sure that while while educating people so that they can understand each other, ultimately it all comes down to trying to do being able to understand everything that is happening with that is happening in life understanding different kinds of experiences understanding different people what everyone is going through and then bring them altogether


which is why which is why I think that, the main the, nevertheless the main aim should still not be on conformity in schools


uh so if you see in the case how singapore actually develop so quickly yes it was due to conformity because we because we directed our entire workforce into what was needed for the for the country to develop quickly back then but if you see it but right now like you said


uh right now for let's say for the case of singapore we are way past that we actually way past that stage we actually no longer in the stage that we need conformity what is actually going to be driving singapore in the future is actually all the SM is all the SMEs even uh #tharman shanmugaratnam# our senior our senior minister


an economist he also has err emphasised the fact that, he also emphasised the fact, that, the SMEs in singapore they are what are going to drive the future of our growth, and if you consider countries like uh like said thailand vietnam yes they may still need conformity right now but ultimately in the long run they will they will have to promote uh they have to look into individualism if they intend to if they intend to create uh new ways


to, new ways to survive in this world especially with all our natural resources slowly running out or you have to look towards is, uh ways to have renewable resources of energy so that you can last forever and this cannot be and this cannot be gotten from conformity this requires our brain to think differently to think in to think in new ways and only way to do that is actually through individualism so I think that would conclude my point


debate topic three


I think there's some contrasting uh contrasting points over here when you say that most people these days could and should be educated from home because when you talk about how they how most people these days can, be uh can be educated from home we are talking about the masses here but then when we are talking but when you were like but your arguments for the should uh it's more of home schooling and I think


although I agree I agree with you that homeschooling does has a does have a lot of advantages for the students but if you think about it we don't have enough, resources to provide home schooling to every single child out there, it's gonna take a lot of resources like you said the reason why home schooling is so good is because of it's one to one uh one one two one uh learning in which their education is kind of tailored for them but we can't do the same thing for every single student that is in singapore there's like


according to statistics that's around two hundred thousand, there's around two hundred thousand students alone in secondary schools and if you provide homeschooling for every single one of them we're going to require at least uh say one to ten ratio of teachers which would come out to twenty thousand teachers just for secondary school just for secondary school students


and, that alone is actually quite a big number, that we cannot that we cannot, we cannot afford given the amount of manpower that we have and even let's say we we do have the amount of manpower the cost of homeschooling is also very very high precisely because it is a one to one tailored programme is a one to one tailored programme we can't afford this


and that being said although uh, although being homeschooled it allows you for a lot of uh conformity and and let and even let's say right let's even let's say that you are being educated especially like let's say in this COVID situation and most of us are learning through err through Zoom through Zoom live webcast


uh where we learned uh where we learn of our of our things through videos uh what is actually happening right here is that we are losing out on a lot of interaction, with other people especially if kids these days are being asked, are beings uh forced to be educated from home from a young age there is a lot of in uh there's a lot of social interactions that they are going to be missing out on


we we know very well, that, online interactions Zoom interactions these are not as effective as one to one, face to face interactions, with other with other people, and then it's going to create a lot of uh that's gonna create a lot of impact on their emotional uh in the intelligence and


ultimately in the long run, most of us will work if that happens what will what will happen would be that we will only know how to communicate with others through through computers, sure there are opportunities for you to go to go out and interact with others but how much but how much can you actually go out and interact with others especially at a young age and if you want to look further at the context of singapore


where most where most parents are actually, uh where most families are usually dual income families both parents are working meaning that during the day that is during during the day both parents are working there's no one actually at home to interact, with to interact with the child so what happens is that unless you have a sibling usually you will you will not have anyone to talk


to, and it'll just be isolated there for like your entire your entire morning to afternoon with no one to talk to all you have is your screen and you will become uh, you will become you you the lack of social interaction cause will cause a lot of uh future impacts on a child you will not be able to talk properly with others you will not be able to understand as well how others are thinking and all these things that we were promoting in schools uh in terms of


moral understanding social understanding we may not actually understand like, we may we may actually be more absorbed from like a propaganda from watching shows in our, in our free time because let's say in the afternoon we have to we have too much time we've done our work but because there's nothing else to do we are not allowed to go out of the house at a young age all we have is maybe to say watch shows


what what happen would be that we are involved we'll become absorbed in those kind of shows and, let's say they are starting to watch like the more the more adult adult sense of, as you know uh most people these days uh they watch american sitcoms and what happens in american sitcoms is there's a lot of comedy involved that is actually


uh like adult comedy and most of it is actually if we know that it is wrong but it is funny when it is when's it it's funny when it's been said but we know that it is uh wrong if you do it to others but as a young person, if you are watching the show they might just find it funny and because they are not being taught these moral uh these moral understandings


they may not know that it's wrong and next time when they go out and they interact with others or what happens is that they might just use, they might just use uh these things on them which will just caused people it will just cause social unrest when people start to interact, with each other so yeah that would be my point on why


uh even though we could be educated from home we should not be completely educated from home we still need the social interactions of interacting with others, to be able to develop ourself holistically


I think if you think about it in that way the benefits of being home schooled they are really very very great, uh because it's all because it's all tailored they are seem to procre~to produce higher results but like I said these are mostly the results that if you look academic wise because is tailored for them


but, like I said my emphasis is actually on the point of social interactions that they will that they will be lacking all they have is interaction with the tutor that would be it and do you know what uh uh like what is going to to happen actually if the tutor sees


the sees the child more than the child sees the parents is that, this tutors uh it will actually kind of, uh it will kind of cut off a little the interactions uh it'll kind of cut off a little the, the parent bonding with the child because the child becomes much more reliant on teacher


than, uh seeking comfort in their parents, and like I said earlier, like I said earlier it's a lot about interaction with actually with interaction with other kids so they can have a common understanding with, so that they can understand how actually our social system kind of works from a young age


I agree with your I I agree with your point right now that is actually like home schoolers there are in advantage with a lot of in a lot of aspects like you can like you say that they are they actually watch less TV right now I won't be surprised by that fact but we have to understand that the reason why home schoolers are


the current home schoolers are like this is because most of the people who are home schooled they come from people with higher they come from families with a higher income with a higher financial background and hence they can afford like their parents, they want to educate their child in every single possible way which is why they send their they send their kids to say they send their kids to


uh like all these dance classes all these different kind of classes where they can still interact with others uh but, if you if if you are talking about the masses if you are changing the entire system such that almost everyone is being homeschooled, like


it firstly it loses out on the exclusivity and secondly there's also the point that uh, now that everyone is being homeschooled, only the higher income people can afford to go for all these classes only the higher income, the reason why their families are higher income is cause their uh the parents were being taught well the parents uh they understand what is actually needed in today's society to progress further and they're trying to push that onto their


child uh that being said that may not apply for all for all parents in higher income family but that is just the generic ideas but if you go to the masses the lower income the reason why there most of the half the time why they're in the lower income is because, they are not being educated well on what is actually needed needed to progress in this economy


they are, the what is actually needed for them to bridge the lower income gap get and enter the next income gap is to work on actually what is important and because they do not have they do not normally have this understanding yet the the children most of most of their learning of these areas it actually comes from interacting with other people in school


or like or say from the teachers themselves but if they are being home homeschooled because the the only people who are educating uh them in these kind of aspects are actually the parents the tutors what they normally do is actually teaches teach them academic wise so without the parents enforcing all these on their child what's gonna happen is that


they're not going to know what to do from a young age, so they may actually fall uh they may actually fall into like, like I said back into watching TV or like say lazing around of course that is also the chance that they will break out of this they will go and because of their curiosity not doing what to do they might go and


uh explore different things, but, we do not know what are the chances of that and being cooped up at home you actually don't have a lot of of areas to explore these things especially with the fact that, now in singapore most of the things there isn't a lot of there isn't a lot of free things to do


uh most of the things you actually require you actually require money to spend to actually pay for all these courses to pay for, to pay to learn new things granted that you have you have the ability to learn to learn things online, but there's only uh


as much as the online education space is growing there are many skills you can learn online, at a young age you do not know about you do not know about all these, most of the time as a young as a young person how we actually learn things is by hearing from other people finding out that oh this kind of thing exists and then we go online to search for it but if we do not even


if you are not even open like we do not even have the opportunity to hear that this kind of things exist we are being cooped up at home, then, and parents and our parents, they also do not have uh that much like parents parents for the lower income group who may not have as much understanding as to what opportunities opportunities that are in the world


and, hence cannot pass it on to their children, uh it will cause the kids from this from this background from these areas to actually lose out a lot to those you in to those in the higher income uh families


okay press already, part one debate topic one


okay, okay can, can


so later do I read out the question also, so later do i read out read out the question also, oh, oh okay, okay


discuss the view that environmental conservation efforts today are nothing more than token gestures, I would say is uh yes because, the citizens of singapore they largely reject the idea that


ya that singapore is because singapore is just a small country so it doesn't affect very much, to climate change eh or uh to climate change, and then singaporeans, they are they also feel


that , indus, if one person uh how to say they do recycle, or they save the earth conserve the environment all these it doesn't make any uh much difference, however ,


singaporeans also agree that, climate change will impact the, will have some impact on food prices create economic hardship and, uh water scarcity, and the and majority of singaporeans believe that if they don't conserve their environment


, in the next twenty to thirty years they will see the effects of climate change, which will, affect their future generation, but however majority of the singaporeans they still do not really care about


, environmental conservation effort, okay, with the government actually did, do some things for to conserve the environment environment of singapore


like they let me see ah they invest, like for for example they, , , they reduce the amount of, cars, uh or of vehicles in the road through COE


and they, they rather than using , resources natural resource natural resources they use


they generate their own electricity now for example , ninety percent of its electricity are from natural gas a cleaner substitute for coal, so this will help to reduce the environmental damage


and uh, , for singapore, and


and they uh for what singapore government has do also is , create a environmental awareness, for singaporeans over the years for example they do lead through education, and advertisement


and for example the very minor one would be, if you if you do not bring your if you bring your own paper bags to NTUC or Giant then you do not need to pay for the ten cents of the plastic bag


that kind of thing but actually, it's still, how to say it's still not, they are still not conserving enough, to save the environment, because majority of the singaporeans


they have other things to take care of for example they are thinking about their, their their salary how they are going to pay for their house, how to they are how they are going to keep their jobs for example during this COVID nineteen period so actually, majority of the singaporeans


if they cannot even tackle their own issues they cannot they won't even want to care about the environment, and government is also not making, it, uh legal eh uh illegal if you don't how to say ah take care of our environment for example if


if you don't use too much uh if you use too much plastic plastic bag, uh you will get fined that's not the case, and yeah


and singapore because it's a small country, and, , uh the population has, getting bigger and bigger so actually they are also, singapore government they are also building a lot of houses like HDB flats


for people to live in so actually this will this actually leads to deforestation, so , and for example the constructing of MRT


uh, MRT or or, public transport, is also one of the things that that drive local deforestation


so , I would still I would strongly believe that there are, uh that, environmental conservation is just token gestures like if you want to do it then you do it if you do not want to do it then don't do it


cause it's not something that can be uh forced through the government or, through, yeah cannot be forced something forced through the government, however uh in the future if


they have been they have experienced something like climate change and all then maybe during that time they would change and be and conserve more and conserve environment more for example they would, I think they would do the basic one like, use lesser use lesser plastic bags


uh how to say ah like don't drink too much bubble tea because bubble tea, creates a lot of waste because of their uh plastic, ya plastic cup


and


, K actually, uh, K I can add one more point which is that actually


singapore do not, okay for country like singapore right and maybe some other big countries like US, uh they don't put environmental conservation efforts as uh the as the first priority


so for example in singapore, they know that a lot of, a lot of factories, a lot of factories use uh, use carbon material


but, hello hello, they know that okay for


uh okay can continue right okay that so what I'm so what I'm saying is that, actually, ya actually I feel that the singapore government they do not put environmental conservation as their first priority so actually


for example in two thousand twelve, , , the former minister for environment environment and water resources, doctor vivian Balakrishnan stated in, stated that singapore will not impose a carbon tax on industries


for competitive, competitive reason, so actually their main priority is still economic growth GDP, like gross improve their gross domestic product, so actually, environmental concerns will is actually


not the main priority however it's about, singapore's singapore's economy is the uh more important, so like such actions actually, will lead to, environmental conservation efforts, being just token gestures


cause even the government is also not prioritising this, which I can understand


yes


hello hello, uh okay so, so ya I believe that the, government need to do more for their


to conserve the effort so that if a if the governments, uh plays a part right then it's own people will definitely plays a part, plays more part and another point is that, if the people don't see any impact


that they don't any bad impact that they don't uh, conserve the environmental efforts right then actually they most of them won't actually do do anything, even though they have studied geography or, they know that it's important to reuse reduce recycle


uh that's all


uh okay, so for mine right , ya I believe if, they if singapore singapore and uh for example singapore and singaporeans want to


plays, play more, rather just than a token gesture right then maybe the government should, implement more how to say ah a a little bit, uh stricter laws on, probably


, for example they, to cut down the amount of plastic bags, like for example maybe NTUC and Giant, supermarkets they, for example one week there are seven days maybe


two to three of the days they can, stop supplying plastic bags, so this can encourage people to bring their own paper bag or their trolley, to go and buy things, however uh ya however there are there are also disadvantages ah so


but, if every week they did it they just do implement this for one day, then actually, they would have saved a lot of plastic bags, at least like a small step that they can do to conserve the environment a little bit


cause plastic bag cannot be, be, be uh plastic is, cannot be degraded until after a million year if I'm not wrong, uh this my recommendation, like one one small recommendation that they can do


uh okay, uh yes, twenty minute, stop the recording ah


part two debate topic two


should poorer countries address environmental issues when the basic needs of their own people are not being met, uh my answer would be, no, they should not if they cannot even tackle their basic needs of their people then


they should not even handle environmental issues first because that's actually, not the priority, okay so for basic needs, basic needs is, like food including water shelter and clothing


which also actually, so actually under maslow hierarchy of needs, which is the level one physiological needs, most people do not even have physiological needs in


poorer countries such as india and africa, kay so the physiological needs is actually the basic needs that I mentioned just now, K for example uh based on a report from SOS children villages


, two third of people in india live in, poverty, and sixty eight point eight percent of the indian population lives on, uh less than two dollars a day, and over thirty percent even have less than one dollar twenty five per day available


which, is considered as extremely poor, so this makes, actually makes the indian subcontinent one of the poorest countries in the world, and their their people suffered the most actually because they are living mostly most of them are living in slums and do not even have


access to clean water shelter, and, yeah and they do not even have toilets as well, the the basic of the, the basics lah so, actually india is


the second most populous country over china after china, with about one point two billion people, and they have the they are in the they have the seventh largest country in the world with an area of, three million twenty


three million two hundred and eighty seven thousand kilometer square feet, but their population rate are, in, growth are ten percent over over many years and is, oh sorry sorry


however their counterparts like china they have, better growth rates of ten percent over many years and is the largest economies, in the world with a gross domestic product of, one point six four four billion US, dollars, and because india


a country like india they do not really, benefit much from this economic boom, economy from from china because majority of the people in india are still living in, poverty so when their


when their basics their basic needs are not met right actually they cannot do a lot of thing so, yeah it's they they cannot even address environmental issues when, their basic needs are not even met, so okay so these are the things that


they cannot even, they cannot even do for example, they do not have basic needs so their, their , because they are stuck below the physiological needs which is the basic needs means their country cannot prosper and this will affect the economy of the country because there are lesser well educated and skilled workers and labours in the workforce


and so, so actually I feel that for example, in india the, in , in india the government actually should focus


, the government in poorer countries should actually focus on how to, uh give their at least give their people basic needs, for example they can if they can put they can put more put majority of the


money first to build, uh to build a proper home with a basic, access to clean water shelter and toilet, and


if after that is done right they can actually build schools, for so that children can go to school instead of uh doing, uh low labour jobs such as logging and


logging or finding raw materials, and until until the stage whereby their own people basic needs are met already then


yup they can address environmental issues, K let me see what we still have yup if


if majority of the people uh have, have basic needs right so they can, they can move up to the second stage of the maslow hierarchy of needs which is which is actually education health care


which is uh fourth level of the hierarchy needs, but with education right actually education plays


actually plays a very big part, because this will with more skilled labours, then there then they will bring in more investors for the for the country


uh okay so, K another issue that maybe the because majority of the poorer poorer countries have, high, a high population growth such as india and africa


so actually what the government can do is that, why got background, uh what the government can do is that they, they can implement uh one to two child policy so this actually decreases the growth rate of the country


if the growth rate of the country decreases so the family will, actually, feed lesser you'd feed lesser mouth I mean , ya they would they would not, they would not have to spend too much money on their children


for example in india some of the family averaging they have, like, around six to ten children, yup so if, it's being reduced to two children, that that would decrease the


uh growth population growth rate a lot, which actually which this will, actually reduce the, amount of houses maybe uh houses to build, schools healthcare and


so so that , for example hospitals schools and, houses , can be, accommodate to the majority of the to accommodate to more people in india


and okay, uh okay uh you say you say


uh okay I do agree, your points for example, since china is actually developing on their way to highly developed countries ya they should play a point also


but ya however , maybe the maybe the richer people what richer people in china or in india they can help to play a part in the environmental


issues for example, actually for example if even if changing slums, into, a proper housing for the poorer people that is actually considered as tackling the environmental, one way of considered as tackling the environmental issues because


slums are in slums area is very dirty and there are a lot of, uh rubbish throwing around, uh rubbish around the area, so if actually this changed into proper housing


and the rubbish the waste are being, , the the waste are being handled properly right, this is actually also one of the, uh ways that they can help to improve the environment environment better


oh okay yes I agree for example in indonesia because, there are a lot of there are, huge forested areas in indonesia, and , one of the raw materials that they


that is actually worth of money would be uh wood like logs, so yes actually this, the government should implement more measures to cut down on , the usage of the


cut through actually stop , illegal deforestation for example, like countries in indonesia, so this actually would help to conserve the environmental issues at which is actually


so actually the government what the government can do is that, maybe they can, uh provide more authorities to go and, to send, to provide uh put stricter measures in terms of deforestation


and also, do provide , do set apart set apart some form of money to their basic needs for their people's basic needs, for example


so so actually if their if government can handle their basic needs right , they do not have to do illegal deforestation, which will uh affect the environment


part three debate topic three


the real heroes of environmentalism are rebels, okay for this uh I do not agree with this part, with this sentence because, they are the they are the ones protecting the environment ensuring that uh


earth actually that uh the environment can be sustained, so , because actually, extreme climate uh if, they do not if the environment is not protected it will pose a threat to


the population to the world population such as water supplies air quality and food production, in two thousand eighteen the world health organisation estimated that, global warming would cost an additional


twenty five uh two hundred and fifty thousand deaths between , twenty thirty and twenty fifty if, no one still uh if the environment is still not, taken care, and being conserved


okay so I will say some points, that I that I've that is that the earth that uh the environment has already been affected, uh the first one would be unclean, air so, actually nine out of ten people in the world breathe polluted air with an estimated seven million dying every year


from conditions, associated with uh exposure to microscopic particulates, so for example they may, most of so uh uh this affect, people


such uh be affect people that, have asthma or, have a lung bad lung conditions, kay for example the burning of unclean fuels such like


coal diesel kerosene and even biofuel and trash, this, these small pollutants will actually when will actually go into our lungs when we breathe in


uh which actually which actually in the happens a lot in the, in countries with a high industrial agriculture and oil and gas production, so these actions actually leads to air being breathe in is unclean


and air pollution can lead to a variety of health problems like lung cancer strokes heart disease, and actually this air pollution does not does not affect


only humans but also affecting the wildlife and domestic animals, uh let me see what is that, for and another thing is that


, uh, do, one of the thing that, uh affects the environment is deforestation because, these actually affects the habitats of


animal wildlife and at the ecosystem, and this will actually leads to animals, going to extinction


so actually the people protecting the environment and


they so actually the, people, uh the people who, protect the environment right they are actually playing a part for the earth and, some of them even went to the extent whereby they


uh go to protest to the government for example one of the in UK, UK there is a, , there is a group called extinction rebellion which is a new movement, and they have been protesting against


UK uh UK, activities such as, uh pollution such as the pollution and high


thing deforestation rates, so actually these people are, they are actually not the rebellion but they are actually helping, the earth to conserve the earth


uh okay, you just now is you uh you said you mentioned a point about when people getting I think is when people getting, richer right they do they can reduce lesser


so actually, okay uh this does not happen in some countries for example US, uh in the US there are, , for example in the US there are


uh they are considered as the high developing countries so actually majority of the people have access to, have basic, access to uh have access to basic needs and they also have access to schools going to schools and access to different types of food


so actually when, people are getting richer right they want a better quality of life and, they they also want a better quality of food, so for example in US there are, an estimate of uh let me see ah


K sorry ah not in US but, in the world that in the world which is, there are an estimate of two point one billion that are obese or overweight, and majority and majority of the people who are obese or overweight are in


uh countries from US because they have access to better food for example, , I think McDonald's can be considered as one of them, okay so for example McDonald cheese for example Big Mac


the energy that needs to produce Big Mac like the the beef, is, that in the water the amount of water needed to produce is also actually very high, so this also, how to say ah


this also shows that actually when people are getting richer right they want better quality of life so, majority of them would not actually, conserve the environment I mean not them but actually


the people uh , how to say ah the restaurants the the food and rage industry, do not conserve the, uh conserve the environment environment for them because that's that's a


how to say ah that's a, because there's a supply of, because when we're because there are there are demand for a better food quality


uh can I ask uh why do you say that it's uh doing more harm than good


oh okay so, let me see what I have , K for, let me see what I have


K uh actually conserving the environment is very important because for example one of the, one of the, raw materials or I would say basic human needs like water is


would be affected badly if , the if pollution still continue going on at the current rate, because the, on average right a person uses up to five litres of water a day


and uh for example there are in less developed countries like india and, india china eh india and indonesia, uh more than two third of their people living in slums so they are actually drinking dirty water instead of


they have access to clean water, so actually this pollution, can, like the polluting the sea or for example one one way of, , industries polluting the sea would be they throw their wastes to the


to the sea which resulted in , the water being polluted, and this does not uh affect the human lives, but also affect the , the the


the ecosystem for example fishes uh, fishes and, and, other sea , sea creatures , uh dead because they they have, uh encountered they have


they have drink those unclean water, so actually this will result in , ya the killing of uh fishes as well, if the environment is not being, uh protected


part one debate topic one


K so uh he has said that, uh he has mentioned like the environmental conservation efforts in singapore right as well as the impacts and he is saying that, the efforts are nothing more than token gestures


I agree, okay but I will talk more about like not just in singapore, but like in the whole world so I'll I'll try to, I'll talk about the problems, first problems then, what are the measures and whether it's effective or not


so, first main problem is deforestation, so deforestation right some environmental conservation efforts include regulations to control illegal logging, but, is this actually effective


although there are regulations but the enforcement is hampered, by corruption, also difficulty in monitoring such activities especially in the less developed countries, so next problem is we have pollution


some measures some efforts include, imposing penalties for industries, for discharging toxic fumes, but s~some people, some people prefer, to uh, buy cheaper fuels


which is less environment friendly and governments are unwilling to enforce stricter controls, due to the pressure from industry lobby groups, ya for example uh USA not ratifying Kyoto protocol


then uh next main problem we also have, the depletion of resources, so although, renewable resources , are introduced like uh some is mentioned by <P2>xiao han</P2> right, we have wind energy solar energy and hydro power energy however it's not cost effective in


err, some cases for example in the less developed countries, or even the developing countries, due to the opportunity cost, then , uh so however


K let me, however I would like to say that, uh some of the I would like to talk about some of the environmental conservation efforts which are, actually which have actually strong impacts rather than just token gestures


first , K for example, in china china's government, has, introduced conservation efforts to protect the environments such as


planting millions of trees every year to help save the environment, and also people are starting to be aware of the problems the environment is facing and are encouraged to conserve and recycle, and if everyone plays a part


the impact would be very huge so not just a, small effect , okay I think I've ended my points


I guess is the fan, but it's not that bad right


yes I understand what you are saying you are saying that the government doesn't put much emphasis on conservation efforts as well, uh , uh yes and I would like to introduce another point which is sometimes right okay not just is like you know that we have earth day green day uh green week you know those environmental uh


uh, to commemorate environmental or or like to raise awareness, of the impacts of uh global warming et cetera , so actually right well I realise we are constantly bombarded by such news that we are allocating more time and money on projects and campaigns to support this kind of days than more than it's necessary


ya so I feel like all this hype and attention could actually uh, they actually mean nothing if the environment is actually not in such a bad state that we imagine it to be


okay I agree that everyone has a part to play everyone has to put in effort, uh to save the earth err, ya so I think right this should be seen as everyone's priority so like not just


the government not just the government's priority but all people of the world


K done, part two debate topic two


okay I agree with what <P2>xiao han</P2> said that poorer countries should not address environmental issues when the basic needs such as like food education that he mentioned of the people uh of the people in the country not being met


okays actually uh, actually for the more developed countries right , the they are the ones who actually they are the ones who actually contribute more to uh like environmental issues such as accumulation of greenhouse gases because they are the industrialised countries okay for example the US the UK


uh so they contributed significantly to the accumulation of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere for a very long period of time during the industrial revolution of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries , also if if you if poorer countries want to introduce environmental conservation efforts there is a trade off between environmental conservation and economic growth


uh so it is especially difficult to protect the environment as the poorer countries actually require uh more resources more energy to meet the needs especially if the country has a growing population


and in order to save the environment there is a need to introduce economically efficient but environmentally unfriendly equipment such as coal-powered plants, which can increase the energy efficiency of machines but oh but for example uh this would result in higher cost of production


which the poorer countries cannot afford I think it is more important to help people emerge from poverty and promote economic growth and I think these are the things that we should do for the environment actually


so uh it is more important to , let the poorer countries get richer first and they can first enable uh first satisfies their immediate needs all the basic needs following which they can then afford to start caring about the environment


ya so uh yeah oh


okay , okay uh uh uh okay I will speak okay so so just now I've mentioned that uh so uh the more developed countries such as US UK


uh they are the ones who contribute more because they are more industrialised uh but actually right on the other hand, the less developed countries such as uh india and the developing countries like china they have to also be responsible for this as actual as they are the ones who actually pollute the environment at a much faster rate uh as of


the recent years due to the rapid industrial, development china for example has overtaken the US as the world's largest polluter since two thousand and eight, so what I want to say is while competing for the interest of economic development and environmental conservation


what they should try to balance is uh no sorry what they should try to realise is that the the more developed and less developed countries have to share the responsibility in saving the planet


uh okay yes I agree so I agree that actually if you have good governance uh means okay means the government is good in the country and introduce good policies this had this can actually promote , uh economic and uh environmental development as well uh okay I have another point so


okay I will talk about poorer countries should actually address uh environmental issues because even if their basic needs, uh of their own people are not being met kay for example in indonesia uh, we seen the indonesian haze nowadays right so this haze actually affects not just indonesia but affects indonesia's surrounding countries as well such as singapore malaysia so what I want to say is an environmental problem in one country


uh might not affect the the country itself but it might affect other countries so even if the basic needs of their own people are not being met, they should also take environmental issues uh as equally as important as the basic needs


okay so ya so let me just say a few more uh so to save the environment


as difficult as it seems I believe that we should not uh lose heart we should all work together and I'm sure that uh we can we can save the environmental decline yup that's all


part three debate topic three


okay so I would like to say that environmental conservation is a serious matter altogether


so evidence has pointed to the grave state of the environment release of more greenhouse gases and the harsher global climate all uh point to the ecological disaster that awaits uh


uh, uh humanity if insufficient action is taken to tackle the issue of environmental degradation, uh so the search for okay like if not for the experts in the environment sector not for them searching for renewable energy resources


uh then, okay I'll I'll talk about some of the measures that these experts come up with so due to the advancement in science and technology they are able to come up with measures to protect the environment and introduce ways of alternative sources like solar energy


uh geothermal or hydroelectric sources ya okay so the automobile, industry also introduced the hybrid cars which combine an internal combustion engine and electric motor okay however


, I'll talk about actually uh the rebels of environmentalism contributing to environmental so first


ya so actually people the rebels right so these people are beginning to recognise that it is unrealistic and ineffective to expect uh companies to act against their economic interest to just to complement conservation efforts


uh, so by, ya the economic history of developed countries such as the european continent also suggests that when living standards go up people and societies can afford to reduce their pollution they can stop cutting down forest and also stop


uh dirtying air or polluting the water and and uh actually, in indonesia there's a developmental policy that was introduced that actually uh promoted


a strong economic growth of about five point nine percent annually even with indonesia's greenhouse gas emissions being reduced by twenty six percent so ya so with this statistics this shows that for those who actually


choose not to uh choose not to like , use the, conservation uh policies right they actually earn more and at the same time they reduce their greenhouse gas emissions ya so this suggests that


uh the the, companies moving away from uh conservation efforts they they are able to benefit economically and uh at the same time conserve the environment so


ya so actually this right is more important as this actually uh sustains the country's growth also sustains the country's wellbeing


okay so what I was saying is the like the companies that are in the developed countries


uh when they they they do not put so much emphasis in conservation efforts right so they get to save money save some save on production costs and with that right they have the ability, to to afford to reduce pollution stop cutting down forests or stop polluting the air and so on so they have the ability to do so


ya if they do not put so much emphasis ya but , putting so much now I like to talk about uh uh and I have an example here right so in germany germany even though they put emphasis they put heavy emphasis on uh trying to conserve


the environment for example in twenty sixteen uh, uh germany which is the world's largest per capita consumer of solar energy produces just six point six percent of its energy so okay next to achieve this number one status the country has invested


one hundred and thirty billion in return for a twelve billion worth of energy only ya just so now you can imagine how much they uh invested in conservation efforts but actually I think it's doing more harm than good


uh


so it's like you invested so much money to conserve the environment, so uh, from one side you might think that uh conserving the environment is very good but like I mentioned the statistics right germany invested hundred and thirty billion just to get twelve billion worth of energy


ya by by trying to invest more equipment so that they can consume solar energy , they resulted in uh spending so much yeah on the equipments


part one debate topic one


so in my point uh should there be any restrictions to enjoying art in the society, yes I do agree that certain censorship is important mainly because censorship helps to protect the basic fabric of our multiracial society so if we look at, uh if we look at arts as well as a as a as perhaps something to enjoy chances are certain performances must be within the law and ambit of the law and those who break the rules are usually


you know creating certain grounds of hatred between uh various groups that must be held accountable as well and what we feel is that uh perhaps the government of singapore should, have some certain level of censorship for political racial and religious uh issues to that extent in terms of the arts that are available in the in the society reason I think for this argument


is also because singapore is a multiracial society and in order to protect that uh basic fabric uh a lot of times it's important for us to ensure that certain art forms are being respected but at the same time the viewpoints of different communities should be respected at the same time as well while I do agree that uh


us, perhaps certain art uh art segments or perhaps artistic backgrounds, do, feel that uh restrictions, create less creativity but at the same time uh we need somebody to stand as a gatekeeper


to help ensure that certain uh types of content is only available in the community to ensure that uh you know graphic materials or negativity


okay so (mmhmm)


right okay I do respect your views <P2>donovan</P2> and I do agree to a certain extent , however I want to counter this idea that uh restrictions don't foster a level of creativity because constraints can seem like the last thing you want in a creative project or even for the artists as well


but they're usually beneficial when it comes to doing group work as well, because if you are ever faced with uh perhaps a writer's block or common block because I I write on on uh on a regular basis as well and I think you know a writer's hurdle is always something that you really want to avoid


uh if you have experience that before you kind of know how paralysed it is when you don't have that opportunity on uh when you're actually opened with a blank slate with nothing to do and I think what these restrictions can do is they can take away some of these choices available to this artist and with that


with the paralysis of uh choice I would say it would actually can get them to start moving ahead as well and I think certain restrictions do force people to think out of the box to create new forms of arts uh that is perhaps beneficial for the community as well and I think uh in terms of countering perhaps certain


uh restrictions as well there was this arts term licensing scheme uh that was actually introduced in singapore as well and this had done uh, a pilot run I think sometime back and the idea here is that the whole scheme is not run by the government


but at the same time it's actually co-created with the artists in the community and I think there are certain restrictions in place in singapore that are beneficial for both sides, and it's not just the government or any ruling party that's actually controlling this level of restrictions and this voluntary scheme uh actually gives artists and art groups as well an opportunity to actually self-classify their shows so


uh again it's really more of reviewing the type of censorship is that's required and I think this level of co-regulation is really good in working together with artist to define what others' ah you know classification boundaries as well


yup and I think uh on top of that as well there are some certain nuances and certain situations where I guess arts, really did step across boundaries multiple times in singapore and, the sad thing is for example even in recent days uh perhaps uh if you have watch some Mediacorp dramas as well uh there have been certain characters uh played about


maybe a certain group of people in the LGBTQ community and uh this actor called #chee san# actually portrayed them you know assaulting different people and I think, without this level of censorship or restrictions more of this content might appear or may fall through the cracks in that sense and with these restrictions in place I think


it helps build that level of trust between the artists as well as the community and at the same time it foster a good and healthy art uh arts background as well moving forward for the for the community, and I think that's that's something that I I hope to push for as well so restrictions actually help foster creativity and at the same time uh co-regulation is something important but what are your thoughts on that


so while I do agree with you to a level of extent I think where where I would counter propose or where I would definitely start is in terms of addressing uh your thoughts in terms of uh how artists actually showcase or uh,


that's provide a certain level of awareness for the different groups of people in our society and I think I do agree with you that to a certain extent, it is the uh artist's responsibility in terms of how they would portray uh certain groups or certain art forms as well but at the same time in this digital age I think it's really hard to


provide you know that level of uh checking or that level of responsibility with the access of graphic materials just a click away as well , and I think the government can no longer act as a gatekeeper moving forward and what I hope to be able to bring about is this certain level or certain idea of co-creation or even co-regulations because someone needs to keep these artists in check


this is why uh certain uh perhaps artists even the mediacorp one uh portraying perhaps the LG LGBTQ committee in that negative light uh got past and fell through the cracks , this happened again uh in two zero zero six uh for a play called smegma and it portrayed uh muslims in a really negative light and I think things like that uh definitely needs to be uh


put in check because artists themselves uh perhaps come with a good outcome or a good uh you know back-end result in terms of what they're hoping for but the execution or perhaps acting out uh of, how this outcome could be is potentially where all these different you know racial barriers conflicts might happen uh a good example I think from this is say maybe for the TV show as well when they're actually talking about uh perhaps homophobic remarks


it could be something uh from a good cause where they want to talk about an awareness of a certain community but the way they have portrayed the community may not be something that's uh more or less agreeable for the general public as well , and I think uh certain nuances like that needs to be looked into if not uh at the same time if it's not possible then restrictions need to be put in place to ensure that this this takes place uh in a qorganised fashion as wellq


right and while you say that, (mmhmm) so while you say that uh I think, what I want to bring your attention to is as well uh is at this point media development authority, so uh IMDA is actually in charge of certain level of uh nuances in terms of what's actually shown in public or publicly available for our community as well so while I do agree that uh perhaps somebody needs to get this in check uh there needs to be restrictions or even a a set of guidelines or checklist for AI for


IMDA in that sense to actually look through and, uh classify information that is good for the society or something that may not be good in this point of time for the society as well uh what I think uh they could, do better at this point is besides having that level of uh maybe regulations or even a checklist of restrictions is to have like what you mentioned certain thought leaders so to have thought leaders in the community or even perhaps like focus group or or panelists uh suggestions as well when


certain groups are even uh talked about in that sense and I think in order to do that, uh there needs to be some group of people or even supporting that, uh argument as well yup so I think from that we will sum up (mmhmm)


uh twenty twenty ya


part two debate topic two


okay so as the proposition I would have to assess the view that reading books is by far the most wondrous of all past times, and I think this is a really interesting topic for me as well because I think in terms of the past times uh and the most wondrous I I guess would be reading books uh in my case as uh as well so definitely I think reading books uh has its uh pros and has its cons in certain ways as well and I think the debatable topic at this point is wondrous uh pastimes because uh wondrous and pastimes I think it's really subjective at this point of time but uh I can share with you firstly why reading books is great and one of the great plus points is it can boost your all your brain power and not only does reading actually help you makes smart make you a bit smarter this in this sense it can also help increase uh your brain power just like going for an exercise or even jogging uh


or even I guess working out on a regular basis in the gym mainly because I think uh besides uh you know reading and understanding new knowledge uh reading actually helps improve uh certain memory functions as well and it gives your brain a good workout and not only just that a lot of studies have found right with age uh it actually comes with declining memories and brain functions as well so regular reading actually help slow the process of ageing and besides gaining new knowledge I think you have a healthy and young brain to help you keep going even though in I I guess you age at a later time as well


so definitely I think frequent brain exercises will help lower you know mental decline and I think in terms of uh neurology or even on a health standpoint I would say that uh reading is a good pastime even for all ages I guess ya


okay right so I think this is great as well but at the same time uh what I want to bring uh your attention to is how although you know being having a wondrous pastime is something that subjective to subjective in nature per say uh reading can actually go along with other complimentary hobbies as well and I think where we want to come in uh coming from this reading standpoint as well is that perhaps different types of uh hobbies per say require different equipments materials or resources to even start for example you mentioned something about photography how much does a camera cost to even start uh you know snapping pictures