in most cases are only armchair critics typically those who have been handed the death penalty would first undergo a lengthy trial in accordance with the law provided by the constitution it is only after a fair trial


where evidence is against offenders is beyond any reasonable doubt, that those who found that those found guilty of serious crimes are sentenced to death and only when the law provides for such a punishment death penalty in my opinion should not be abolished


as it is the only fair as it's only fair that those who commit serious crimes be made to face the law


I would like to reinforce my stand that death penalty should


not be abolished the proposal to abolish the, (ppc), the death penalty has to be carefully studied or it will send the wrong signal to society, the death


(ppc) the death penalty is still needed when the country is afflicted with crimes that can create fear among citizens, humanitarians and others including practising lawyers who advocate abolishing the death penalty should not be so concerned about the lives of murderers


brutal rapists kidnappers and drug traffickers and ignore the countless number of violent and serious crime, the retention of the death penalty is needed to curb serious crimes in our local context


there are many concerns to the about the that the abolition of the death penalty may send the wrong signal that such crimes are not taken seriously enough lawyers, politicians and humanitarian groups who are for the abolishment of the death penalty for serious offences should rethink their stand and consider the well-being and rights of those who have become victims as well as the right of others


who wish to live in peace, abolishing the death penalty will only send the wrong signal to those who have the predisposition to commit horrible crimes sparing the lives of hardcore criminals for humanitarian reasons will only cause more misery for others


it will see an escalation of serious crimes in our society further impairing the nation, next we have also seen an increase the number of serious crimes escalating worldwide and this is worrying if no significant measures are taken


in this perspective it is worth noting that a jail term may not serve as an effective deterrence anymore to those contemplating to commit a serious crime murderers kidnappers rapists and drug lords


should know that if found guilty they will be given the death penalty, this will make them think think twice before indulging in brutal criminal activities, some countries and states that once abolish the death penalty were forced to revert to the punishment when they could not curb the rising rate of serious crimes in their societies


even the US has not abolished the death penalty for serious crimes, states like Florida Kentucky south carolina California and Washington


they still send hardcore criminals to death by gas inhalation lethal injections or hanging capital punishment is a legal penalty even in asia countries such as japan


it is applied for murder and executions are carried out by hanging the death penalty will caution criminals, and make them think twice before they decide to commit a crime and it is also in place to ensure that murderers they're being held responsible


(ppc), (ppc) for their actions


so there are many things in the world which, should be banned for instance the use of guns, but the death penalty is definitely not one of them it is a right way to go as far as capital discipline is concerned


right now in the world I thought I find it outrageous that crimi~that criminals think that they can get away with just about anything, in some countries including the US the death penalty has helped them lower the rate of violent crimes we need some form of capital punishment to send a message


to to criminals that they will not get away with these severe crimes the death penalty would also make people more secure, in some countries within south america and the far and the far east there they have they have very severe that they have very severe penalties including caning for even minor crimes


people in these countries feel that they cannot walk around or sat outside their houses for fear of criminals and this goes to show the extent of serious crimes in these countries


in other countries however we rarely see laws being broken because the penalties are, so stern as I've mentioned previously, the death penalty could be used to set an example to all criminals criminals who have committed violent crimes such as such as robbery rape and murder


they are walking the streets like normal citizens because we have been too lenient on them if the death, penalty is instituted there would not be as many daring and violent crimes as there are presently and for this I feel that our present laws are too soft on criminals


and we need to be stricter towards them, plus another reason why the death penalty should still be in place is to maintain justice for most people life is sacred and innocent lives should be valued over the lives of killers


innocent victims who have been murdered and some even tortured beforehand, these people these people they had no choice in their their they had no choice in their untimely and cruel death or any opportunity to say goodbye to friends and family prepare wills


and or enjoy their last moments of life meanwhile, convicted murderers sentenced to life in prison this murderers they're still able to learn to read to write to paint to watch TV to to listen to music


to, maintain relationships and even appeal for their sentence to many capital punishment symbolises justice and it is the only way to adequately express society's revulsion of the murder of innocent lives


according to a study conducted in twenty eighteen by american analytics and advisory company fifty five percent of americans interviewed think that legal executions fit the crime of what convicted killers deserve


the death penalty is a way to restore society's balance of justice by showing that the most severe crimes are intolerable, and will be punished in crime in closing I would like to reiterate that the death penalty will make a major differences to society it will make


our streets safer people more secure and most importantly a better world for everyone to live in


thank you <P2>darrel</P2> so with regards to that uh you pointed out the specific example of using science uh and its relation to media studies, so there is actually an important aspect of uh academic uh rigor in this kind of education for future employment so a an example would be how science can actually uh


teach you certain things that may be essential in media studies for example, so a good example would be for example the hypothesis testing the scientific thinking and how to run a logical and conclusive uh experiment which is essentially quite important in uh media studies for example especially in today's context of the


uh, fake news so it's important that science and other academic rigours are, factors for admission, because, all these factors will actually help you to mould you into a holistic individual of course non academic uh factors and other factors are important for admission but academic rigour should be the base layer in ensuring that people can cope with the studies of the institution


so for instance if someone is uh very good in let's say media studies for example, have very good communication skills but is unable to handle other, job, or other uh academic rigours of the institution cause we all know that in uh university or higher education for example that would be a broad base of subject apart from uh just the major that the student is majoring in so for instance statistics are in terms of uh


writing or in terms of logical thinking or even mathematics and calculus all these are requires higher command of academic uh rigour so if one were to not be able to cope with these, even if he can excel in these uh major field of studies he will not be a holistic individual that can value add to the society in the future


alright uh thank you <P2>darrel</P2> so, I, think uh you brought up some very interesting point especially regarding the passion to learn, as well as to how uh we should, admit students based on their skill sets which I totally agree but uh I'll just like to point out that without uh academic driven admission process it is very difficult to access assess the uh


skill set or the qualification and how well the person is qualified to enter certain institution so I think you brought up a very important concept of meritocracy so meritocracy, uh as we all know is to admit a person based on the hard work and his own individual uh drive right so with


a non academic factors like what you say it might actually cause a uneven playing field like what you have mentioned previously so the kind of funding and family support that one is given will cause an uneven playing field to, actually cause uh it will cause a uneven playing field especially for the less uh for financially uh advantage


so in that case isn't academic the more important and the easier, means or the assessment method to actually allow one to determine if one should go to higher institution or to stream students based on their academic uh, factors


in my opinion uh using academic uh, way of assessing people for admission is actually a much better way cause furthermore uh schools are there to help the students when they're needed it is up to individual drive as well as to their own hard work and greed to determine uh where they want to go


of course we can all say that external help do matter to in certain extents for instance in the case of tuition but if one is ultimately hardworking enough and uh dedicated enough one can definitely seek mean through uh the proper education channels such as through consultation with


teachers after school or even through uh self study which I think is quite important, so, in conclusion I think uh definitely the admission through academic it's a much provides a much more even field for people from uh from less fortunate background as


they are able to uh receive help from proper channels as compared to non academic factors such as extra curricular activity or through certain, talent, which might actually uh cause uneven playing field due to, the extra classes that these students might take after on weekends or after class


so thank you <P2>darrel</P2> so I think you brought up a few good points uh so first of all you mention that uh students should be admitted based on their willingness to learn or their passion for certain subject, but here comes an important problem and question that we should ask ourselves which is how do we then uh determine how strong uh the passion


of these students are because when it comes to passion and certain other things like for example character traits or maybe personality there might be certain flaws in our current assessment method for example, is the are the teachers supposed to assess the student based on their daily interaction and if that's the case would a student actually fake uh


their performance in class just to gain gain admission to certain uh courses that they desire so there it's a grey area as there's no standardised metrics unlike in examination whereby each of the students are given a certain course a certain grades and certain score


so that they would then be able to apply for courses that they are interested in so I think that's the first uh question that we need to ask ourselves and then as for the second question it would be regarding how uh we are allowing a primary six student to be determined by a two hour exam


I think at, uh the younger age uh you want them to be exposed to more academic uh exposure so that they can find their passion because it doesn't make sense for you to get a twelve years old to choose a specific path or career uh that they want to pursue in the future because like what you said they are not fully uh their brain have not fully functioned yet but as you look at the higher level


from secondary all the way to uh, university we are actually saying that there's more and more uh assessments in the form of project work which I think can be a holistic measurement of a person's learning process and learning outcome, so all this uh basically is totally different from what you have been saying


meaning to determine the student's uh future just by a two hour paper in fact it is actually a project and is running across a couple of months and you are testing them to work with, their team members and from there you are actually being able to understand uh what they're good at and how they work with people so in that way it is actually a mean of testing their other non-academic uh processes as well such as their personality their teamwork


their leadership skills and as such so I think this is one important area that uh we need to talk about which is in in fact in academic uh assessment especially for higher level wise there's already incorporating certain elements that uh


ah in that you've mentioned early on regarding passion regarding desire as all these things are not, based on just paper but in fact there are based on a person individual drive and person uh personal traits which will actually help to make one stand out so I think that itself is actually a big importance that you need to consider


so another point uh I think we should consider uh why schools should just use a grade alone for admission is the fact that uh, grade itself basically speaks greater volume and the standardised metrics like what I have said earlier on, the fact that you are able to have a standardised assessment will definitely make the process much more fairer like we have shared meritocracy so certain things might be hard to gauge but grades is ultimately a very fair stabiliser and a metric that


can be consistently used throughout, especially throughout the world because when we look at throughout the world we have different education system but grades itself is one thing that allow you to speak volume, and again grade is also a very important factor in terms of


a person's uh ability to learn which I think is the key to the to the future because at the end of the day what you have learned, might not be actually up to date so is the process of how you are willing to pick up new skills and how you are actually willing to uh take all the initiative to learn yourself and to pick up certain knowledge and memorise it that is the key to how we can actually make


learning a much more effective process because at the end of the day learning if a lifelong if a it's a lifelong process and we want to, pick someone or admit someone, that, have the academic rigour and the qualities that allow him or her to actually continuously learn


so grade is definitely a much more important factor for admission as compared to subjective and non academic factors, ya so in that sense my stand is that you should actually consider grade as a priority for admission


yup so that's my stance


uh so <P2>darrel</P2> you brought up uh, this point about the social benefit of offering mother uh of offering dialect chinese dialect as a mother tongue language so, you mentioned that the key benefit as to why we should uh offer chinese dialect is actually to uh


allow us to communicate with the elderly better so my question is then, why are we uh using dialect as the main communication channel and what is the benefit of offering mother tongue of offering chinese dialect as a mother tongue language and its relevance in the next ten years


cause as we look at uh our current population demographic right now a significant amount of the population is actually uh the older generation and hence like what you have said earlier on a lot of the government uh policies let's say rallies are actually targeted at this group of people


but if you were to offer a chinese dialect as a mother tongue language now would it be relevant in the next ten years, and, the key question here is also as to, do we really want to stress out uh younger students to take on an additional language as of now uh the students are already uh struggling to cope with mandarin as their mother tongue as well as english being bilingual of course has its benefit but the thing over here is that


in singapore not many are effectively bilingual usually one person would be uh more fluent in one particular language and if we were to add another burden to their academic curriculum are we adding on additional stress and additional uh


burden to their education system making their lessons longer, having to do more homework, and other unnecessary uh measures in schools so, we again we have to weigh the uh benefits of offering chinese dialect so if we were to use chinese dialect as a


language to communicate with our uh elder generation can we actually do it in a informal way say doing it, uh by parents instead of being offered as a formal mother tongue language because like I said earlier on the benefit of it doing it is uh less than the actual uh input of doing it


firstly you have to hire uh teachers who are actually fluent in chinese dialect so this will again raise the education costs as well as the taxpayers' money, secondly uh, given that chinese dialect, has many different kind like what you have said Teochew Hokkien cantonese do we have to split the students specifically into these groups and if we were to do so would it actually cause uh segregation of students according to these dialect groups


so, we need to ask ourselves this question as to why are we focusing on uh chinese dialects so specifically and if we do, uh roll out chinese dialect should other language dialect be roll as well for example in malay or in tamil and other languages that might have their own sub uh dialect


which again will cause a strain to our education system so I think we really need to uh talk about how we can, actually uh weigh the consequence as well as the effort that's needed to offer chinese dialect as a mother tongue language


alright so uh I think you mentioned a very important point about the intangible benefit of offering uh chinese dialect as a mother tongue language and how it can be useful in certain business context so my question to you is that, why are we just offering chinese dialect as a mother language then if the example holds if the argument holds true


one might argue that you can just pick up foreign language and you might be access to more business opportunity or even career choices elsewhere so a good example would be uh for example if one is, ones wants to venture into india for example one might speak tamil or their local languages so would the local language be much more effective and more uh offers more benefit as compared to just a dialect


okay so, reason being first of all uh for dialect it only resonates with a specific group of people so for example a specific region or province of china speak certain dialect so for one to be effectively be able to communicate throughout china one will have to learn


a couple of dialects which again would take up a lot of time and effort in that sense and if that is the case why do we not just engage a local, translator or someone who can speak the chinese dialect fluently or even just by using technological tools that we have today such as google translate that would effectively help to lower the effort required to communicate


because through these technological tools, the communication would be as equally as effective as compared to just by, picking the language which would take months and uh add on additional stress to a students in our uh institution right now


so another thing about why uh chinese dialect shouldn't be offered as a mother language is the fact that chinese dialect might be quite difficult to learn for some especially given that chinese dialect is actually very different from the structure of our uh mandarin


some might get confused with it and eventually result in the even more awkward situation as compared to singlish right now singlish occur because we are mixing all our different language together in the sense what we often call as Rojak meaning mixing the different languages to bring across a point with chinese dialect being introduced


more inside as well as other uh dialect from other uh languages would it result in the case whereby singlish is more frequently used as compared to the local language which is in singapore our official language is of course uh english malay tamil and then uh mandarin right


offering chinese dialect as a mother language will also give send the message that, it would be one of the uh languages being accepted so in that case would it actually confuse our future generation, and for one for country like singapore which is trying to force our national identity would chinese dialect actually uh confuse us and make us be unaware of who we are progressing as a nation given that we are already such a cultural hotpot and having so many different culture and languages mixed with us


would it actually confuses us more so that's the question that I think we all need to think about


alright so uh, regarding the social fabric and how you can use this to connect with the older generation my question to you is then, given that we are already well equipped with chinese and like what you have mentioned earlier on our parents are actually quite uh fluent in chinese as well in general so why are we not using uh chinese as a default language uh to speak with our parents I think for many of us and for many of our friends


uh the default language has actually become to be english as it is the commonly administrative language used throughout singapore so in that case, by introducing chinese dialect as our mother tongue language would it actually prompt the younger generation to actually use uh chinese dialect as a communication with their grandparents because right now uh chinese dialect is not being taught as mother language but the communication between uh


between with their grandparents it's actually uh not a significant barrier actually in fact many of them are able to communicate, pretty well some might not be able to speak as fluently but they are able to make bring their point across either through uh mandarin or mixture of some broken dialect together with mandarin if the existing uh communication channel that they have is actually quite well established


do we still want them to be proficient or to learn chinese dialect in depth such by offering them as a chinese uh mother tongue language so I think that's the question that we need to, look into as well because like I said the benefit of offering as a mother tongue language might uh be less than the effort needed and also with the chinese dialect added would it actually cause a


fragmented chinese population in the sense that if people were to actually just focus on certain dialect and if people were to start speaking this dialect, would it actually cause a sense of identity to be broken down even significantly even among the chinese population


cause what we are trying to do right now as we have said is to build a national identity such as singlish right which is a melting pot of different languages, but if we were to use a chinese dialect would the chinese population, be using these chinese dialect


among themselves and then causing more subgroups to appear and it would hinder the national building process that uh we currently very much precious and cherish upon, and another important aspect of offering uh as a mother tongue language


is also the fact that uh resources, are not very well established because right now uh in singapore, we are just focusing on mother tongue alone and many may not even be able to speak mother tongue well and we need to keep up with uh new resources in order to offer these chinese dialect so do we need to have a new oral examination a written examination on top of their chinese uh written paper


because chinese dialect as far as uh we've been we've been known is that, it does not really have a specific written assessment or certain written usage, oral might be possible but uh for, specific


uh paper that is driven towards chinese dialect might be uh not very feasible at this point in time so I think we need to reassess into how practical is chinese dialect is being offered as a mother tongue language and if so, would it be as important as compared to our mandarin which is a common language used throughout china or even in other parts of southeast asia


which would definitely bring much more economic benefit to the country in a whole, and something that we already established as one of the common language use uh for the chinese population in singapore, so I think that's the question that we need to think about


alright thank you <P2>darrel</P2> so uh to me learning is best inside the classroom for the very reason that, uh classroom is provides a very safe and conducive environment for the students so, as we all know uh the outside world like what you have said is unpredictable and all these uncertainty and unpredictable might actually cause discomfort among students which will then affect their learning process


so when we provide a very safe and conducive environment in the classroom students are actually motivated to learn and, ask questions which they may not be so comfortable in the outdoor, so for example in the classroom itself it is very quiet and it is relatively comfortable with the chairs and seats which would then enable them to concentrate better


so by providing such a conducive environment they'll be able to learn more and to be more focused especially when it comes to picking up new knowledge where focus and comfort is actually a very important factor in uh knowledge retention, also uh when it comes to learning in the classroom you are not just confined by the four walls in fact through certain


engaging a learning tools for example videos or student interactive uh software or through a VR even AR all these are some of the ways that we can enable learning to take place in the classroom itself yet with the experience and the comfort and safety


of a classroom, so I think learning is definitely best inside the classroom given that it provides a very conducive and safe environment for the students, especially when uh the outside world is unpredictable for a education institution or even for the teacher for example


engaging in outdoor learning might require a significant amount of, effort, which might not be practical in daily lessons, especially when they can be easily done with half amount of the effort in just a classroom yet the same time with higher quality of learning so with that I really think that learning is the best inside the classroom


you brought up an important point of apprenticeship and internship as to how learning can be beneficial outside the classroom but the question is how much can you uh actually learn from the outside the classroom cause in a classroom setting usually there would be a teacher at least one teacher uh


and uh twenty or thirty students, so in this kind of setting it actually provides two benefit firstly you have someone dedicated there to actually answer your question and to impart knowledge to you these teachers are actually uh very skill in teaching, with


obvious experience and curriculum as well as a top process has been put into curating all these kind of learning experiences for the students so they are often a tried and tested method of imparting students' knowledge which works, as proven by our uh hundred years of education system


and at the same time there's also the dynamic of having other students with you so in that case you're, having the opportunity to work in groups in a very comfortable setting as well as to learn from one another now what you shared early on in terms of class participation for example certain important issues or questions being raised might actually uh evoke certain uh thought process


so that is actually one of the benefit of having a dedicated teacher in the classroom, but if you were to go out in uh outside of the classroom, in terms of internship or apprenticeship a lot of the times these companies are very much focused on their individual uh organisation goals


rather than cultivating uh interns or even part-time employees reason being all these uh companies have their own goals to fulfill and often more often than not they're only there for a couple of months or half a year, which they would not be spending uh


precious organisation resources to cultivate you and to teach you the rope of course you can argue that uh you are able to learn on the job and to experience real world but, in reality how much work or how much actual work are you actually given as apprentice or an intern when you are doing uh this sort of work attachment so that is something we need to think about as well what is the actual learning outcome that you achieve


when you are on the work attachment as compared to in the classroom whereby you are given assessment to help you with uh attention retainment as well as uh group projects for you to, further reinforce your knowledge as well as a dedicated mentor or teacher that will help to guide you and point out your mistakes which will then enable you to learn better


so that's something that uh you might want to consider when you are learning uh outside the classroom


alright uh I think you mention about skill based uh skill best skill based learning and how we can actually pick up skills based on uh learning outside the classroom, so there's also an important question we need to ask ourselves by actually


learning outside the classroom would it actually cause a uneven playing field for people who might not be able to afford it, so for example uh when you talk about school based when you talk when you talk about learning outside the classroom we often thought of overseas exchange or even experiential trips or study missions to overseas country so for students that might not be able to afford or with certain financial consideration


would it actually cause a disadvantage to them given that all these experiences like I said earlier on can be curated and can be experience through technological method be it through videos, or even through new technological tools like VR or AR whereby they can actually experience the same thing without having to go pay the huge amount of money in order to travel across the country especially in current climate with the pandemic ongoing so with that


should learning be actually be condensed and being curated in the classroom given the convenience and the course that uh you're able to offer, and this will actually cause a much more even feel for the students who might not be able to afford to go out of the country


and as for what you have said earlier on regarding the apprenticeship, there needs to be a uh certain consideration as to what kind of knowledge that you can learn in on the job training, so outside the classroom uh in the workplaces a lot of the times on the job training uh it should being provided and no doubt these are important form of learning but in terms of foundation knowledge and base layer that form your knowledge are we actually given enough uh resources or even


uh enough time to pick up all this which most companies might deem as useless in today's context, but of course again all this knowledge might provide you a holistic and broad based education which will enable you to think of groom you as a more holistic individual with different perspective which is very much needed in today's uh society and today's climate


so in that sense uh to conclude, should learning be outside the classroom when you can actually uh, should should we be inside the classroom, yes reason being it provides a much more even playing field especially for the rich and the poor given the same experience can be offered at the a much lesser price as compared to uh experiential learning overseas or study mission at the same time uh learning


inside the classroom would also enable you to pick up more foundational knowledge which should groom you to a more holistic and broad based individual rather than on the job training which is often a very specific and narrow field


okay , so debate topic one schools should consider subjective and non academic factors for admissions


okay so currently schools, go for this streaming policy where you need to score above certain points to be able to get into say the better schools however this is not exactly a very good way


because it restricts students from achieving their highest potential, the education minister already said that grades should not be the defining factor, in employment opportunity, so the same thing for schools should matter skills are the next grades so to speak


uh skills would be able to allow you to better perform your job duties well versus grades which are about arbitrary subjects where it, won't really necessarily affect your


placing in your job, so for example if you are in a media you you're studying media, your science grade would not necessarily help you do your job better, however if you have skills uh relating to media and you want to get into a school which is good in media


then that would be a better fit for you to enter the school, so an example would be, if a student has six A's, but no internship in a media company versus a student who has five A's and a three month internship I think the second person with five A's and the three month internship will be more prepared and more fitting for the school versus the students with six A


and this would allow schools to slowly build up on different skills so different schools will be uh, more powerful in a certain skill and employers would take notice so for example next time you can have a skill which uh a school which is good in media


a school which is good in say a particular sport uh a school which is good in debating for example, so this would allow uh students to be better separated


according to skills instead of grades which are only, for for the most part national exams are only just a certain period of time in the student's life we should not define their life trajectory


okay so about the thing of holistic studies ultimately when you enter a job of course holistic studies uh holistic education would be something which employers look out for however the most important part would be whether or not you'll be able to


succeed well in the job which you are doing and I believe that if you have an internship for example or you show a sense of, urgency and willingness to learn something that would be


that would be important and that would show that you have, the that will show that you have , the willingness to learn and the willingness to learn is really something which is most important when you are aiming to go for that job so what I'm saying here is that if you if you do well in school there must also be uh


sense of urgency a sense of willingness to learn, and my example would be the the media studies if you do well in school it doesn't mean anything if you do not show the wanting to study uh media's uh the wanting to learn how to conduct media communications


just because you do well in school doesn't mean that you have you are fit, to do a media job, so your example about sciences doesn't really hold water because the ultimate


aim for example of media communications right is that you are able to speak comfortably with a person you are able to, hold arguments uh for prolonged periods of time and you have good people to people skills which something lacking when you just conduct academic studies to determine whether or not you can enter the school and we are


talking about education opportunities when you enter a school they matter very differently, uh a flip side of, not being able to enter the school would be that schools right currently if they do well enough that that may breed elitism and usually the rich people


the rich students people who come out from better backgrounds they will be able to enter the same school whether or not through other means even though they do not really do very well for example if the parents donate money to a school then


the schools as particularly those in the #bukit timah# area they receive more in educational funding in fact it was in twenty fourteen when this was released uh when the news article came out that funding would be cut for the top independent schools in singapore now what does this tell you


it shows that meritocracy in singapore does not really exist if, the schools the top schools get more funding to build amenities such as swimming pools and tennis


courts on the taxpayer dime versus say neighbourhood schools where you don't receive enough money to say even fix the air-con for example so it's important that people get in based on their skills and their willingness to learn which is something


that uh for example people who do well in school might not necessarily have, one must show, that one is willing to learn


assessments to determine whether or not you can enter a school, would be based on, say for example for one subject a two hour paper, and that would consist about sixty percent of your grade, and then the rest of the percentages just would also be about


one hour or two hour assessments so imagine that, a few hours of your life would determine your future, that would be something very devastating especially for a primary six student who is twelve years old, like that was one of the reasons why this PSLE


uh, assessment would be, thoroughly reviewed the ministry of education has already said that, changes would be made to the PSLE system where you don't pit one student against each other because


ultimately these exam grades are arbitrary you are comparing your own academic grades with another student's which honestly if you if you came from another, cohort you might do better than somebody else even though you are just you your standard of education and your learning process is solely yourself


so that is one of the reasons why, uh judging somebody by their academic right, restricting them to enter certain schools is a bad idea because there is no when you are twelve years old it will be difficult because most of your brain some of your brain functions have not developed


and I believe the the way one should judge, one's learning ability would be the willingness to learn and that ultimately is what should be should be the deciding factor in determining which school you are supposed to go to just now you were talking about meritocracy


the reason why I say meritocracy doesn't really exist in the education industry is because the top schools still receive the most funding, and that has to do with grooming them, taking that just because you do well in a certain subject or you do well in a


national examination you are groomed to become scholars of the future leaders of the future, however for those students who enter neighbourhood schools they might not feel the same way probably perhaps the teachers might not have enough drive they are seen as problematic students and they group them altogether just because they don't do well and that would result in


that could result in a vicious cycle or loop where they stay in the poverty cycle they do not get out of it because they lack the drive to study, and they do not have good company around them so being able to mix them together and judging them by their skill more than their academic grades I'm not saying do not judge them by their


uh academic grades just that alone but rather a holistic a holistic assessment of whether or not they show the willingness to learn that would, be best I feel to


uh, allows students to enter certain schools


okay debate topic two chinese dialects should be offered as a mother tongue language


okay there are two benefits to having chinese dialects being offered as a mother tongue language the first benefit would be social benefit now for our older generation many of them are first generation or immigrants


uh from places such as hong kong taiwan, and mainland china now these people speak dialect they speak cantonese Teochew and Hokkien what this would mean if


students learn chinese dialects as their mother tongue language would be they will be able to connect better with the older generation, and this would as a result have a better family dynamic because ultimately the older generation when you are able to connect with them on the language which they've spoken for the majority of their lives


that will allow us to better connect with our older generation, now even though the government has said and launched the speak mandarin campaign and effectively forced the population of that time to refrain from using dialects politicians have during election campaigns


spoken in dialects to reach out to the older generation now what this shows is that, politicians themselves know that the older generation are more comfortable in speaking dialects rather than chinese if you are able to speak in dialects you can connect with them on the more emotional level and when you're a family who is able to speak the dialect


you'll be able to understand the older generation better, so that is the social benefit of learning chinese dialects as the mother tongue you'll be able to connect better with the older generation and the family dynamic would be greatly improved


okay thank you you actually mention that, chinese dialects would put a strain on the education system and cost more in terms of getting educators who speak the dialect and who can teach the dialect you also question whether or not its relevance in ten years would be


even something which the government should consider, however what I can say is that for my second benefit, it sort of uh counter your points about whether or not is relevant and to uh to counter the costs of learning


the dialect so the second benefit of having chinese dialects offered as a mother tongue language is the business benefit like what I mentioned places in north asia such as mainland china taiwan and hong kong


provide many business opportunities for foreign investment what happens, in these countries is that for example in hong kong people primarily speak other than english uh they primarily speak cantonese so that is the language


which is most commonly used by the locals there being able to speak their language would mean that business opportunities are much easier to secure, now chinese may be the official language of mainland china but speaking the dialects would be able to give you that kind of connection which


speaking mainland uh speaking normal chinese would not be able to give you so speaking in the dialect would mean that you are in a way closer to them and this is psychological it may not be rational even but


when you are able to speak their language they will be able to accept you as one of their own and this is just something which is part of the brain is it doesn't really have any, bidding to that it's it just shows that


you take the take the, the seriousness in the business such that you are learning the language you have done the language and you are here to conduct serious business so, to recap there is a business benefit


of learning chinese dialects as places such as north places in north asia such as hong kong taiwan and provinces of china use chinese dialects primarily to conduct business


so you are mentioning you mention that learning a dialect would further confuse how singaporean see themselves in terms of


national identity and how even learn to speak my answer to that would be just now when I mention social benefits, I would argue that the reason why students are


are, having trouble becoming bilingual especially chinese students it's because there is no additional push for them to learn how to speak their mother tongue uh which is chinese the reason is because if their grandparents


are not exactly very fluent in speaking mandarin their parents can speak mandarin there is really no, added incentive for them to learn them uh learn mandarin, so however if you learn chinese dialects you will be able to communicate better with your grandparents there is an added incentive because you want to


uh connect with your grandparents on a deeper level, and that would result in a greater social fabric to have and what you mentioned about singlish is that it can potentially disrupt the way we see ourselves singaporeans are actually quite proud of the national identity that we have and singlish is


one of the top, few things which singaporeans pride themselves in having there is often this saying that when you go overseas, you will may feel lonely until you hear somebody, say utter a word in singlish


then you look back and then you realise that oh, that I'm not alone that, you feel comfort comforted because somebody actually speaks the Rojak language that you speak and that really connects us as a whole because no matter what race you come from


many of us speak singlish and many of us are proud of speaking singlish, adding chinese dialects to, the the mix would not only help, grandparents and the older generation connect with the younger generation they will also be able to


they they will also be able to, learn and have a added incentive, the added push to, learn beyond what is needed because you are able to practise your grandparents and the older generation are able to impart knowledge down to you which will then be able to help you


be more connected to your roots so when you go to places in northern asia you will also be able to connect better with them


okay so what you mention is that speaking chinese dialects might further strain the social fabric of singaporeans whereby if you speak a chinese dialect you'll be


separated into sub groups, the thing about, learning dialects is so that you are able better able to connect with people who can only, primarily speak these dialects that doesn't mean that you have to neglect learning english


or even mandarin the question is whether or not you should offer, this dialect as a language a mother tongue language to be studied this doesn't mean that, you have to give up learning english or chinese completely the the primary language that singaporeans use is really english that means


that that, would be the defining language that would uh unite all singaporeans, together regardless of whether or not you come from a chinese background a malay background or indian background so as long as you are able to speak english there is little worry


that he would not be able to connect with other people who, uh speak different dialects ultimately the social benefits and the business benefits of being able to connect the older generation and also being able to explore business opportunities in north asia would outweigh the disadvantages of learning chinese dialects


okay debate topic three learning is best outside the classroom this is a very important topic coming at a time where the education


ministry is already proposing different ways in which to assess students and to learn uh differently using different methodologies instead of just using the textbook currently uh in the past, schools have always said that learning in the classroom is the best way to be able to score good grades and that is very true because ultimately what is being tested in the books are assessment questions where they are mostly recycled


when you look at ten years series, or assessment books from the past so doing past year questions would be able to get you a decent grade in the national exams however they of, as of late there is a greater emphasis on application questions questions which in the PSLE maths paper


would stump, adults because of, the level of creativity needed to be able to solve the problem and the level of visualisation, now I believe that if you take learning outside the classroom where students are able to


better, uh understand concepts in the open that would be, more beneficial to students in terms of learning rather than just studying uh per se so life is really not a classroom you are supposed to


expect the unexpected in a classroom setting everything is more or less stable uh unexpected things seldom appear but in life that is when, real learning occurs because you are no longer bound by the confines of the textbook and the classroom now that is the reason why uh many tertiary students say their internships are


very useful, to the curriculum in fact a lot of polytechnic students would say that the internship is where you learn the most, so the textbook can only teach you so much because life is nuanced and textbooks can be outdated


in their content, so uh the also another thing would, be teachers will not be up to date of the latest industry changes they might have been practitioners of the craft before and during the education industry however if there are massive changes to the industry


a teacher would be regarded as somebody from the old school and not kept really up to date regardless of whether or not he or she uh is briefed by industry experts, if that teacher has not been able to experience this uh new technology first hand the


imparting the knowledge to students would be uh more difficult


so what you mention is that learning inside inside the classroom is very conducive and very comfortable effect however in tertiary institutions where, even in the classroom you are supposed to fight, for the opportunity to speak for example to earn


uh participation marks that is a very controversial, component of a grade or a subject which you are learning whereby you are graded on how much you're engaged in the classroom, that can breed a kind of hostile environment especially when students are extremely competitive and they snatch for every opportunity to speak in class


whether or not it is regarded as, useful to the learning process or not so in a hyper competitive environment in a classroom it can also uh disrupt the learning process and change uh learning into something which is something uh which is not exactly


very positive experience for students so when this happens not only are you being stressed out inside the classroom but also, that it really doesn't serve any benefit to fight for things which do not really matter outside in the real world so when you instead when you have a real world uh experience you are able to uh engage


frankly with your mentor with uh little to no worry about, having all these small or stupid questions even affecting your standing in the terms of the grades that you are having so


to have to to just restrict learning to a classroom would be very myopic there would not be many real world implications of, your learning inside the classroom the application uh of what you have studied is more important because it is more relevant in the real world let me just


cite an example uh which would be, germany in europe, where they have uh apprenticeship so they call it vocational training in twenty fourteen uh the atlantic stated in an article that


about sixty percent of students in fields as diverse such as advanced manufacturing IT baking and hospitality, uh students or trainees split their days between classroom instruction and vocational school and on the job time aT a company so what they have learnt in class is immediately reinforced when they practice it at work often times when you learn things in the classroom you may forget


about the important things that you have learn in class because everything that you have studied uh most of the time it would be for an assessment purpose and the assessment purpose is conducted in a classroom setting where it might not have as much relevant


as the importance outside in the real world so the application of the skill, is really key to learning that is when you are able to best retain the knowledge that you have learnt and through application you'll be able to reinforce what you have studied


so you mention that when students are attached to a company they may not, be much work for them to do because of the fact that they are really trainees and they might not have the full knowledge to conduct some of the job


uh descriptions which are required of full time employees however that it it can be argued that, when these companies accept students that is a high possibility or at least a chance that these people would be able to uh be hired full time conduct their


internship opportunities and convert them into full time opportunities for them to learn more so when you phrase it in that kind of context, wouldn't the


company want to, further impart knowledge to the student or the trainee so that, eventually when the trainee becomes a full time employee he or she would be able to conduct the skills efficiently not only that knowing that the company has a certain type of culture where the students are already


uh very much accustomed to, and can even fit in with the company so when we have that in mind not only are you learning outside the classroom and gaining real life industry experience you are also able to gain


the additional benefit of being able to be employed by a company immediately after your graduation, so this would be a very good benefit aside from learning because other than learning to be able to secure a a job especially in a bleak economic


climate would be, uh a blessing instead of having to scramble and search for a job once you have attained a slip of paper really of some grades that you have achieved over uh a span of three to four years which


some companies might view as arbitrary and not a reflective of your real life, a skill set and whether or not you are able to handle the stress and vigour of the real life job


so when you mention about, learning outside the classroom meaning learning overseas that is not necessarily the only way for you to learn outside the classroom in fact, even in learning journeys there


are, very important concepts which can be used, and seen in the real life, so, in primary school, for example if you are required to do a video say to uh take pictures of nature and apply some concepts to your video that you have taken that would be a fun project for you to learn about nature and see


instead from just looking at the textbook and video you are able to see in real life how for example a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, or how you can grow a beansprout, so when you have that hands on knowledge and hands on exposure to the concept


that you have learning becomes more real because, if you continuously just learn from a piece of paper there is only so much you can absorb the brain, would be overwhelmed with so much theories that you have learnt and without any kind of real experiences is very difficult to grasp the importance of the information so when you say that you would need to go overseas to have that kind of experience that would be


uh, contradictory because if you are able to replicate these sort of things uh at home, replicate them as long as they're outside of the classroom that would be very beneficial as you'll be able to learn the same kind of things without the need to go overseas and these sort of experiments largely homegrown experiments where for example you are suppose to take care for plant


that will come to as little to no cost and not only that you are able to experience and potentially find the joy in tending to a plant and at the same time learning concepts which will be then able to


uh execute in, assessments and national exams so just to conclude, the reason why learning is best outside the classroom, is because, the class room is very different from life


life is unexpected and things can potentially change uh for example in growing a plant, there can be worms, and these sort of things are not really, factored in when you look at


classroom environments where conditions are mostly optimal, and there are, there is little room for deviations, so, in conclusion learning is best outside the classroom


so animal life should be equally value as uh human life so my thought is that uh as human beings we're all equal so human beings in general is all human being so including animals so I think you know like err like who we are we too are animals


I believe you know through the earth revelations evolutions we all also transform into humans, so I think and this aspects all human beings on earth should you know we're all like guests to to the planet earth so we are owners as well so I think animal life (ppc) live equally or rather


uh we are all the same right so you know we all enjoy the same earth the same water you know the same air you know the same uh everything or, on earth so we all enjoy the same thing on earth right so I think ya I think we we it should be all about equality in this aspect


ya ya but when you talk about ya prey and predators in that aspect I think it's not really fair because I think err you know we you know we as as an individual right or rather or individual uh human being on earth we're all the same so I think


yes it's all it's all about you know uh yes it you know all the species we need to survive right yes I agree but then , or again we we you know there's no reasons or rather to kill any animals to save another human


, , , ya ya , yeah yeah so that's the


reason why we we have we have you know to really avoid in terms of moral moral moral values you know in terms of uh, uh or religious or whatsoever that's why we we're not all talking about you know uh uh stopped killings you know I think it's because of all the killings right all the all the


you know all the earth resulted uh as a result of all the so called I would say disasters is because you know humans are are doing all the you know so call killings ah to animals including of course animals or any other err like trees or whatsoever


so I think uh that that's why it actually results in in you know in in a lot of all this uh uh uh disasters right so I think you know, so we we should not we should not be you know


try to weigh against you know uh this has higher value or soever


but do you agree that animals uh we human beings right ah in somehow or rather also evolve


you know through evolutions or whatsoever transform to humans like you know I think there are some studies or whatever they say that you know if we we actually evolved from you know like uh a gorilla, so whatsoever animals be albeit so is is uh do we agreed that like for instance like dinosaur right they also evolve into any maybe another kind of animals or whatsoever so I think if we uh as a general are animals right we also err


evolve and then we transform in humans let's say in this in this in this lifetime or whatsoever but maybe in the next lifetime we might be also animals so, so you know so I think uh we as much as possible in this life how we should or we shouldn't you know segregate the err you know the err between animal life and human life well what if next life we become animals right then what what will you think


you know then ya then you'll be like eh you're killing in your previous past time you're killing animals or you don't really value animals because ya


, ah


(mmhmm), (mmhmm)


ya okay ya okay so it look okay for example err err err err animal life is being killed right in public or whatever for consumption so


maybe hundreds of all these lah right I mean thousands on any day it happens but, but but you know but when a when a creature animal or whatsoever who can't even speak for itself right it becomes a victim so where you want about all these human rights you know you know we we just because they can't speak our language or they can't fight you you know do we


have to allow this kind of killings right you know we we should at least, really you know or err you know like err what err value that, they being a a a a human being rather on earth we we we should not do all the, killings and that's the reason we humans are holding the same rights as them right I mean we're also living on earth and why should we be doing other killings on them and and and they cannot even raised their voice and they're really very very innocent and humiliated in such a cruel manner and their meats are whatever being distributor or whatsoever


for by consumption or whatsoever so I think you know these are really err you know like keep for food and all that is really really err against the human rights as as as a totality if you look at it yeah


ya so I think ya I think you're right just now when you say your point about err the lion right because of survival they need to prey or they need to, err you know in in that in that whole uh ecosystem you know in their own ecosystem they really have to uh eat so called animals with what they they can survive ya so because they are


they they are in that kind of ecosystem so they have been doing it yes I agree for centuries or maybe you know centuries of years, but we being human right we we know how we could prevent that or rather we you know prevent on the killings you know how to treasure uh animal uh animal lives as well because we you know we we we can we you know we can speak we can build


we can uh do a lot of things out of so called what the animals can't do lah so we can prevent this right I mean we have the, the human intelligible right we have that you know enough because you are born with that we're lucky to be born with intelligible rather than animals they they just do the you know the way


ya okay so you know animals they just err err born and then they live with their current existence they don't have a choice but we humans beings we have the choice here we invent things we know how to speak we know how to, create uh things we know how to do a lot a lot of things that uh the animals maybe you know some of things that they can't do so I think ya so that's why with that enough right we have the benefits already we have all the advantages so we should


you know we we should have a very conscious mind to to not to allow you know all these to be mistreated just because, you know ya it I think mistreatment, is a very very important aspect now I think there's now there's so much of all this going on on on earth I mean even now when you mention about you know err err about err you know all the disasters ah viruses and all that right cause all resulted by human


human life ya so I think ya so to me be it religious or be it human rights ah social rights and all that, ya we really have to stand firm in in this in this aspect ya


, ya ya ya I I agree I agree


could be could be , this I agree ya


ya ya


, ya so is quite okay okay so ya so is is really err very sad I mean when I talk when talk about moral value


so I think I think ya I mean agree some of the points that you mentioned but I think so I think the only difference is all exist in our minds so being human right we have our own mind so I think we really should, uh exist what we have in our mind to really err exercise that equality lah to be honest it's all in our mind I mean yes I know it's all about the the the cycle you saw uh as it is it's been happening for year uh centuries it's been like that but it's all in our mind right so if our mind we can try to change it


so or rather we we try to adjust how we how we do our thinking how we exercise all these uh, all these uh acts ah so called acts so I think yeah why not you know we we really can make it equal lah so it's all really exists in our mind


ya yes I agree


okay okay so maybe I want to summarize lah okay I'm still stand by my rights so I think uh we really have to look after well being of all humans right so including animal so


we should really take full responsibility for our own actions to be honest right I mean it's all equal and we should also treat others be it others be it animals humans as as what we would like others to treat us as well so I think all living things alright all living things on earth have a right to exist and all animals are all equal so we should value


that you know in in ya in all this is ya this I still want to summarize is what I I agree uh I ya I agreed on this


okay great so my last point animals value their life as we humans do as well okay so


part two debate topic two


, okay right so err okay change is good for you yes so I like this so I think err, we all we all have changed ah change is all dynamic change is err we all encounter change every day right so I think uh we really should


always think out of the box uh think out of our comfort zone you know we should always have this in our mindset that ah change is constant you know right so I think uh ya we we really err why I think that change is good for us is because we we are push out of comfort zone you know


we we always live in a comfort zone we think that's easy we follow routine we we we predict what will happen but outside your comfort zone right, all these assumptions are challenge so our different mindsets opinions believe are all tested so we really must find new ways to really err err err articulate ourselves and and what we believe lah so I think


we uh we when you want when the idea of doing the same thing all over over over over again is is not very good because they are always in the comfort zone so we should get out of the world and do something new and different and then that's how life is


okay (mmhmm)


well I mean yes I agreed with certain points eh ya there's risk involved but embrace the change lor if you never try how you know right if


ya I mean regrets I mean in life you have many regrets everyday oh you regretted that you you when you pass by this ice cream shop you forgot you you you don't want to buy the ice cream that you like, this you know I mean it I mean that that's happens you know in our daily life event why why so in order for you to not to have regrets right you should push out of the comfort zone you should try out


(uh huh) uh uh


okay ya ya I agreed what you say about all this what uh the new technology of digital transformation change and all that but if you do like this right you wouldn't enjoy what you have today, like oh oh !wah! you can just whatsapp ah each other you know you can find out a lot of things instantly so that's that


that's translate to the change ah that's the benefits that we get because we really can, have the opportunity to embrace all this new experiences new tool, new technology even new places so all these new perspective are all uh you know so there's so many opportunities new opportunities


and when you look back right all these really are amazing things lah they are all like new experience for us and then you know for instance you're able to err like for example maybe I'll just take travel for instance so, you know like I I like to change and I like to, always have new things and there are also all the all this err err new things err like err new err let's say travel places new err opportunities in work lah for example we all are able to err err you know accumulate all these new experiences mah then we are able to share eh you know look uh I get to


to uh get because I don't always go to the same place I get to change so I get to meet new people yeah so you get to experience more


ya I mean okay, right yes so you come about convenience I agree that yes change is cause uh ya it results and because humans want the convenience but then again will you have some of the uh so called things that happen like you know the the uh environment lah and all these new


things ah then you will always have new things mah new change to try to solve that problem because if you don't have that then the whole problem will still, be there for like ten years so that's the reason you need change mah new change new technology new ways new inventions to change the way why is happening now or today then if we find that today when this one don't resolve then you'll have another new change to solve it tomorrow


the day after one year later two years later so you always must have all these change if not, the whole same problem would be there forever you know so if you don't have all these you don't go and go out of, what the the out of the box, thinking of mindset on tech or or invention then it will still be facing the same problem day in and day out everyday then for the whole entire life right so if so that's why that's


why when I come to err to to to another point so we really have to , you know to to really be more flexible lah adaptable in that sense so when there's so many chaos ya I mean an environment or in the way you know that that but then again if we have all the uh confidence if you know what to do to change right then


then we're able to change it then we are able to walk into the next comfortable uh situation mah correct I mean once we change it oh ya we you know we are able to adapt to this and then we're able to survive in that new situations you know so ya even will be better right you could even change the situation to be better right so rather than you


you always remain the same stagnant same state then don't change anything ya then end of the day then what's what's life what do you enjoy right


ya lah yup


but yup , ya ya I I mean I I know uh I know where your points is but it's just all in your in your mind lah so I think if you fear of change is a feeling that you cannot change you can you can't change you can change so it's a feeling mah is a thought that you can change right so for example if you don't change


uh new things new err you embrace new opportunity newborn new device whatever you know then you don't have opportunities you don't have all this opportunity you don't have opportunity right then you translate that you'll get you don't get maybe opportunities maybe translate to monetary whatever ya


right so I think you know change is all about learning you know you have to learn mah you have to learn how to use a new tool you have to learn how to grow it then when you grow then you're leaving mah right you everyday you have all this so it's all about life lah so I think live everyday we are change even like we change over the years


right so when so so so I think if we always complain about change right the energy that we are wasted to complain then you are wasting life ,


no ya so human right yup ya, ah ah , ya I know what you're trying to say when talk about human so these feelings mah feeling you can change mah right because they fear mah they fear they feel that they fear of this change so you can change your feeling you can change their feelings


ya I I I mean I get what you mean about the change and all this in human behavior but then if you don't change then you don't bring out the


the other possibilities mah how you know is then uh I don't want I don't want to change ah I want to stay put as ah what ah Kampung as it is I don't want to err you know use the new this new tool then then, then you don't you don't have the the possibility mah how you know because how you know that you never try the new things how you know so everything must change mah so when we change then we adapt and move forward right and then we can


always go back again right we can oh okay then I know this new thing I at least I try already correct ya you get what I mean so you have an options ah I'm trying to say you can still stay put you can go back then again if you have a new change ah and then you try already oh ya I like it I love it ya then


that's good right at least you had that opportunity to take the step you take the step forward you try


okay yup of of of of course if if if if it life implication right ya I mean of course err you come with a lot of changes but then


err if you resist the change right then a lot of people who already try to take the step ahead they're very successful in that new change already then they will use this mah to say eh you know you never try that's why I'm here today I'm very successful, you you you get what I mean so then then ya so you you use you you lost that opportunity [loh] to be successful up there so I think it still translate to


uh the opportunity then make you success so I think I still find that you you change you will have that all the different options and then it will give you that opportunity to give you that opportunity to be successful and and then be able to you know have all the, err new thing and then ya so I I


still uh strongly agreed that change is good for us


okay


okay good my last line no change there's no adventure in life , cool


okay abortion should be banned so I strongly strongly agreed that abortion should be shunned is because you know I mean err all the societies anywhere we should


ban abortion completely right because, err it really result to a lot of social a lot of humanity issue you know abortions for the mother's health mental, you know and it also results in crime right so abortions is unacceptable you know I think it will also impact the


the the babies dead err physical physical problem defects mentally alright and abortions also results in social reasons as I mention so it also, uh results in poverty right so let's say ah the mum is unable to cope with another child


them being too young too young to cope with a child right so I think ya so we should strongly strongly , err propose this abortion to be banned in all societies


ya so because like abortion is a model right so so you're killing, ya so ya so I think the killing of ya lah killing of uh human being


okay ah okay, ya so I think so maybe I ask your question is abortion morally wrong right I mean should it be legal illegal illegal you know I mean ya


, ya


ya but, correct but then it threatened, the woman's health and rights right I mean so if you if you don't err if you don't err allow err if if we if I mean if we haven't you would then threatens a woman's health and rights ya with they ya so I think that's very err like dangerous to the womans


, okay so but then what if you err you if you if you don't rise up I mean if you dare raise up the err you raise up the child and all that I mean what what other consequences then


ya but then he the child has an should have a choice right I mean they are not given a choice correct or not ya


okay yup


ya but you you can go for err social group government groups and all that right I mean to seek help be or religious group to seek help so you there's still a way to protect the life


adopted [loh] adoption maybe you can go for adoption ya


so I think ya I I still find that err you know it's all about you know life and and it's all about you know we we is a blessing ah I mean we're all human should be given a choice so, so ya it's it's it's all it's all it's all that we should give a life a chance to live and then but I'm still there's


there's still a lot of ways to really err to find a way to you know to get their lives to continue on earth rather than, ya rather than just uh ya ya ya the mom has a choice to just end a life even without any any choice of that human beings so I think


it's all about err you know this is all about humanity I think this this this issue is more about err humanity so I think what is most important is how do we how do we find the need to protect life right


ah ya, yeah well ya that's that's, of course it's about survival mode mah I mean, in in in a whenever when he he or she grow up is all about survival on earth they still find a way to live lah so you know abortion is really seen as a sin sin you know to


err to really err you know cut the life off without any and it really would resulted in sin in in the human being itself lah so I think err of course you know err you know the fact that err


the options it's always an options in these cases lah the mom has has a choice yup even before the baby is born yup


so shouldn't yeah


okay so we should create a law mah right so if we we give the mom a choice then of course, they will choose to to have abortion so we should create a law in in this extends right so create a law right that will prevent a women and girls from really assessing whether ah they should abort or this and that and you know so we for me I think we create a law [loh] we create a law to


to to to to not err to really allow this from not having an option then then they will not err so called carry out that err err you know do the things that you shouldn't be then they will not face that


consequences that they would need err they will go for adoption so create a law here ya lah then so in that sense you will not you you will not result in all these issues on society


ya ,


ya this is quite sad yup but so weird then we change lor, we allow the flexibility in the law so I mean if it's under aged what what we should have maybe give up for adoption, err then err whatever you know then uh


err uh give to a a a government what uh board uh authority to decide how then if it's above certain age yes obviously you are already an adult so you should think of the consequences so then with the law in place then then ya then they will not have an option oh ya I I will go for a a abortion ya


well of ya I think, this is all medical ya for this one is medical lah this, will have to be law governed by the doctors medical practitioners then they decide lor they decide the medical laws if it's a of obviously I think this is just medical reason that will that's my so I'm just talking about those other than a medical reasons


ya so I think I ya of course I think in well you know in like the world health organization uh WHO world health organizations they say that abortion rates are are are are


you know are really uh procedure that we should really err enforced and and with the law in place right, then you would you would then err, err result in a declining abortion rates lah so with that then people would be more more uh


worry about the laws and all that ya so so I think we should really uh of course in in abortion laws vary by countries obviously you know depends but I think, err maybe in singapore context we should really enforce this as a as a law, ya so we create that kind of actually like singapore have so many laws right so I think why we you know we should uh enforce it as a one month or so then we will have this to be really a legal a legal law in that sense ya


, oh ya there are cases yeah


, okay abel thank you


actually there's no equality per say if you are talking about comparing animals to human right let's look at animal versus animal so there's already non err equality err among the even their own species like animal


like they already they for example you know animals only value uh their prey because is, valuable, uh that's the value in it so everything it tie ties back to survival and food


but that's our source of food because animal I mean this is back go back to the old time like stone age even dinosaur even dinosaur there's also also carnivore, so is just how the nature balance itself and aside right human are more valuable not even human in human


perspective there's also indifferent value in us, , so and then another thing like if you are talking about animal right I am not talking only about you know puppies and cats err let's say that how about I mention like mosquito


lucas right all these ah is they are being ah they are also under animals but do their value higher than human or or is equivalent to human, we we are so eagerly to to to to eliminate them because mosquito bring bring dengue fever lucas kill our crops


okay so I think is like talking about you know how the earth suffer is not tie back to err err value equality but rather is more err err contribute by multiple multiple factors


so in terms of like for example human asides for I mean talking about killing there's for the really for the pure err err err food it they are just a pure food source, ya and then but other aside right human also done their parts in improving the environments of the err animals


if humans don't don't have the higher value or you know err to do it I mean animal were not able to conserve the forests err there is always err human affected in there in help to conserve the environments and and doing their parts


(mmhmm)


, uh on the other hand right and this is how they know


the biosphere because there's no no way that uh we can I mean in terms of there's no way that the whole human uh uh population can totally err go become a vacant


even vacant right we have to kill the you know we have to do plantation we have to do the forests , to to to build you know, those those vegetables or or or uh uh vacant food source that actually can support the population honestly I felt that if we really truly you know err like in terms of


we we we treat err err err for example we treat all animals including mosquito including snakes, including lizard right I can't imagine what world and would I be live within ,


ya so there is always a balance in life I mean so far I mean exactly from dinosaur time from our err err great grandfather you know it can become from #orang utan# or from gorilla uh until now


uh you see how human race already gone far beyond the rest of the animal, that means that we have able to cultivate higher that means that in fact we have higher value in terms of we we are able to give back isn't that means higher value not in terms of the way of killing but higher value is able we are able to do something to protect them


I mean there's always consumable and also you know uh wild animal distinctive animal yup


there's in in a way you see animal itself because it's just a cycle is rather the nature cycle like for example lion lion cannot go on pure vegan right cannot be eat vegetables err tigers and and and so even even animals


in terms of the species they also have their meat eater, so the meat eater will always prey on the err err you know the the the animals err that is err feed on plant , but does that means that they there's is is a equal value I will say that because both animal cannot speak so err in a I think in a way right


uh we're the the the value is not lie on whether are they able to speak up their mind or able to speak up their worth err, but rather everything is there is a cycle you're right is a cycle there's how the earth you know err the err evolve evaluation until today so far we have not seen I mean so far based on


based on uh imagine really we we we don't eat animals, and everything is one one day that means that we don't eat we don't eat meat that means we we value animals like what human being is we send them to school , we send them to school we we say give them the knowledge about


ultimately are they able to perform exactly like human, right it it they will never they can never be no matter how smart the best closest is like the #orang utan# which is the closest to human but even


till now err I'm not sure but I think it what they can do is maybe a ten percent or twenty percent limit of human right


actually you have rightly rightly pointed out you say you say human are more intelligent as compared to the animal


so as such right this uh you know what is the value scale here , so we are not equal right and that means that we are not equal at all because we have a higher intelligence, so as such that we can have used our intelligence and our power to improve the life of the animal uh and likely it should not tie to the suffering and the killing of animals


because in there's many even we don't do the killing err, err there will be you know the imagine if we don't do the killing the overpopulated of the animal, could it be a disaster could it be what will happen nobody knows err but all we know that we will definitely definitely be looking at the reduction in the human population


err eh because you know uh uh we have limited place that that's where we are we have uh limited uh, food source so I think end of the day will be fighting the same food source with the animal and we will have you know err err end of we could be fighting with the animals over one plant


one crop one potato one sweet potato, , ya that's why so I always believe, that there is a balance in in the in the you know in the atmosphere or balance in the err on earth err there's how the mother nature already you know uh uh craft out so there is like you know the uh worms are eaten by birds birds are eaten like you know that's that's the cycle


so there is always a cycle back to maintain the balance on earth so it as long as I uh ah it not tying back the value because I I still believe that human and animal would not have the same equal value , but I think what human can do is to minimize the err you know minimize the


the the the the the killing, uh minimize maybe just you know balance have to do err err made an effort to make the balance of uh earth not excessive killing killing in a way no excessive killing, just uh uh uh cultivate what we need not even what we wants and then and then err there's we do our part to maintain the balance of the you know the the the err globe the environment


okay


correct I would think the other and and uh I would think I think maybe what we can do is it I I felt human life are not uh equal among human


, so don't needless to say about equal with animal so I think, what being a what human can do is first practice you know equality among human ourselves, I think as once we can practice that right we can have similar you know that's how the animal will benefit because currently


err because of uh uh you know we our differences in human err you know err sometimes conflict war all these thing happened and who suffer with all the nuclear bombs and everything who suffer not only the human but also the animals


then for me I still felt that animal life is not it it it it will never be equal as human life because in terms of the err err intelligence in terms of how the ecosystem works


err it will never come to at this moment even as this moment I don't see there will be equality among animals and human but of course again uh, uh uh, uh value equalities doesn't means that we will not human does not need to do anything err so there's always about improving the situation so err we we we we will do being a human we will do what we should do and always uh strive to improve ourselves


uh okay


change is always good, oh part, two debate topic two


but you know when come to change right there's always two side one is positive change and one is negative change so change is not always good in my opinion uh sometimes change can be stressful you know and sometimes it cause and it can be disruptive


right so err so will it be like change will always be good uh which I don't think so if for the if is change for the sake of change so the question is is it necessary because there is something at risk because when you change you have to give up something give up


you know something and you doesn't know what in return what will you get would it be positive would it be negative eventually is still a gamble, is ya so mah nobody knows the result so


ya correct, ya but it doesn't that's why you never try err how you know by end of the day it could be regretful,


okay now now think of this scenario you know twenty years ago we don't have mobile phone we don't have social apps we don't have emails so uh, and and and uh, and every time five o'clock knock off work uh we can really have our good dinner together with the family and then after that sit in front of TV and enjoy family time but now come to today you err you know err social apps has taking taking over our life err


err and and in terms of err when come to work right err are we on twenty four by seven contactable, right even when you are having dinner or whether you are having some important you know err err you know err gathering err or precious gathering on we should treasure but somewhere somehow the phone ring you have to pick up right you have to pick up uh and


and some somehow some you know when you're on holiday you cannot all we we we in terms of you you still have to manage uh emails because all these are the change in, okay so


all these are there there is this is the consequences of change because of the change in technology ah change in communication change of reachable, end of the day we also change but we've become more impatient because we expect people to pick up and respond real time uh anything for example ya because you are you are expected to keep the phone close to you


you are supposed to be reachable you're supposed to do you know every in with all the changes that means with the change having the new technology having the new uh toys laptop everything supposed to you know help us to to to be more efficient but end of the day uh is this change


good you know err best uh uh food for thought


but then that's the change with we change uh because for our convenient for our convenient because we can take flight uh, uh but then on the other hand with this change right we have pollution


we have uh you know pollution we have like, err err you know the example the creation of plastic is a change is really a evolution change in human because, plastic has give us so much convenient but now we also facing the consequences of this uh convenient uh plastic pollution uh hurting our oceans animals the ocean animals are suffering uh and you can see all the uh turtles or whatever are being trapped


are being suffocated by plastic bag all the plastic bottle uh uh uh floating around uh unable to decomposed all these are are, are the and then when when the sun when the things get heated right it produced uh toxic toxic err err err air


so and it it turns back it hurts back the animal you know or so honestly you know because of the change we want to change because we want more we human want convenient human want err err things that


is efficiency but then on the other hand in return right really end of the day who in there's, there's the suffering of the there's the suffering of the environment, there's the suffering uh from the err in the oceans


suffering on earth and it actually will bring it back to us because of the consequences when there's lesser uh you know, err fishes in the ocean err due to the pollution or ah or we eat the polluted fish and then that will you know bring the we're eating the toxic and and that is how the you know that is err how the different funny cancers


err we seen on the patients, err we have not seen in old town we only hear of you know uh heart problem err or or some of the lung lung uh, cancer but now they have so many funny cancer coming up why now why not in the past is it because of the change for our convenient we produce a lots of those you know err err items with when we invented or where we created when we err for the human convenience


err but yet we never know that in thirty years down the road forty years down the road is actually, creating the negative impact on human so the starting point change is good but at the end what is the consequences ya


ya change ya change I don't think I I I I think in the sense that change err, err yes there's no way that we can stop change, but the thing is change doesn't means it's always good is not always good so imagine for example now err okay like you mentioned just now about flying that because of the change in technology you're able to fly but then on the other hand because of the plane in the air


and many planes in the air that creates pollutions, then when when plane, fly what do they rely on how to uh you know how to generate that that is energy where they get it from means it's petrol and every and petrol uh and then when you fly there is food so all these are you know kind of result in the for example food how do we get food


because that you know there's more frequent flying already so instead of staying at put at one place we can eat you know the consumption is different, err we eat one place we can consume whatever it but now we fly they have to cater additional for those people who fly off so there is additional food requirements and then in order to keep up with the you know this type of pace like food and energy right what they do


they have to do mining or they have you know in terms of getting more energy from the ground they have to do the forests because they want to uh you know it can be deforest because err to to build hotels for the travellers deforest to build a city that can attract travellers


uh uh, uh so in in in return for money so all these like you know for example come to food and plastic come to you know uh plastic we used container plastic container right every time we go hiking, we go coffee shop when we packet food err err err we always use we always know that it that it will be a plastic container which is chargeable aside on the chargeable right now think of old days you know during thirty years ago


do we do we have plastic container we don't have but then on the other hand that we we do have something it can be in banana leaf wrapped in banana leaf with we all say that is a delicacy now right and or, or or you know or you know we bring our own plate we bring our own container


err so doesn't mean change is good doesn't mean change is good ya


correct


oh !hey! I will say that change doesn't uh that is why I say change doesn't means good because it can be negative you know in uh for example uh end of the day it are the people ready for the change are they ready are they capable to accept the change


uh what if they're those you know group there's one group of people who are unable you know due to due to cultural, due to their err social err err belief and belief they are unable to cope with that changes then what were these group ya what were these you know these group of people they will be the they will be the left out ones ah


not really for example if they want to protect their heritage for example they want to really protect their heritage they wants to err


err say that for example in uh example like demolishing a a a Kampung, err for the sick to make way for a commercial building so could be that your Kampung is a community life is already already built all my you know the the the relationship


with all my uh uh uh friends and neighbors we all help each other we are happy I honestly I think they they will say that I'm happy even I don't have the latest technology I don't have the tablet I'm happy I'm contented with with my life but


uh where you keep pushing to them that you know change is good change is good but honestly if they don't felt that change is good we are forcing the change on them and, ah then there will be you know end of the day ah there will be uh you know there will be anxiety you know so it it means that it would they are not happy at all so change ya


but then a lot of times right we can never go back that means once a change uh happen, a loss of time there's no way that we can go back to the past to experience the same thing again just like when a Kampung is demolished to make way for a commercial building uh it and and and ah and the Kampung people are being asked to move move to to HDB you know with uh


and and and and and and, they said okay let's try let's give them err err you know you should have a try, to have the experience living in HDB is very nice , so the people you know really move the resident of Kampung resident move to the HDB but they doesn't like it for example they doesn't like it and then they say that oh do I have a choice to move back to the kampung can't because a lot of time we cannot revert back you know some things we can


some things we can go back like what you mentioned that we can okay I try this I don't like it uh uh like example uh trying a new dish okay I don't like it the most is I don't order again, but what if the change that really it change your life implicate yup


I will say change is unavoidable but change is always go in two ways good


or you know or or or or no good, happy or not happy with the final result ya and and ultimately right a a a change err if it has create an impact in life in in in in in something that means it could impact in in my err err err


experience an impact in my relationship err impact in in really that means a drastic err err err consequences which I cannot revert for the sake of change then I will not advocate it yeah


yes okay ,


part three debate topic three


I will make say that abortion should not be banned because you see we should view abortion as a medical reasons


why is there a medical reason could it be the mother health cannot afford to carry the baby right for example if you mention that it cannot, be it it it it should be it err, err it should be banned


abortion should be banned that means that the mother health will be in danger because of this policy or rules, or alternatively if the baby has some err err issues, which we know that you know it could bring danger if the mother bring it to terms or or after giving birth right err the baby will not be able to live beyond certain age and throughout this certain age they are going to suffer


so err, if this policy is being imposed, by for example maybe by the lawmaker but end of the day who is taking care of the you know the end result that means the the the the sick child it will be the parents or it can be the single mother who end of the day nobody will ask if she being able to cope


right so who would it the law I mean the lawmaker can say this you know loudly to say that oh abortion to abortion should be banned but the thing is are this group of the you know people that fall under this law being taken care of


that's the questions, what if they if the child like what you mention is having some defects


or you know have the you know have the we know that with certain deficiency err based on the tech current technology able to tell that this baby is not to going to be a normal baby , so so parents being a parents if you wants to it if it being ask you know being mandate to give birth to this err


err err err baby who who who is not able to take care of himself or herself and and and then and parents eh for example this baby err the the the this baby he and she, is going to live until sixty years with the you know the uh abnormality err with them which or or they need to be taken care of but their parents being parents they have certain age


when they passed away what will happen this child will be looked after by who you know it's it's it's going to be a very long long long journey and I think I will think that abortion should be decided by the parents or if not the woman


because the baby is is inside a woman's body so I I believe that the woman should have the rights being a woman you have the rights, to decide whether to keep, or don't keep instead of letting the decisions right or the policy uh by the uh lawmaker


ah I will (hmm) I will say it has to be legal because if you don't make it legal something it will create an illegal business if you have an illegal err err err err doctor that do illegal abortion you know for the err woman that is even a higher risk