iphone instead of they're just a phone that without any logo than to promote this is iphone, they are putting the logo there for every every single product I mean not only every one every single product they were putting their brand on their product because they are doing this is one kind of advertising for them when the use


when other user other user using it, and maybe others consumer look at it they will know that okay you are using this brand of products so and so I will go to try for it since you are using it mean this product is good so I for me logo


they they put a logo there is one kind of advertising for them also ya the logo maybe I believe that the logo they print the logo is also cost them but the advertising fee is not like a million thousand but is still able to influence people to make a decision to buy from them


yes maybe me myself know that is not good but since that the advertising said that this sweet and snack is so delicious and so nice I mean I I will not buy it a lot but I will buy one to try is it really very nice uh let my son to try is it very nice


but this kind of thing if without I mean if without advertising we we don't know that this product is in the industry and we won't go to buy it but now since you are talking about that they are doing a uh advertising said that this product is very good


and uh they show you the picture how good the how delicious the sweet is or the snack is, I believe that still a lot of people will go to try on it they are not buying a lot but they still will go to try on it but this kind of thing is not necessary but there still will affect people to buy on it to try it


yes I agree with you maybe some of the product that make people to just whether want to buy or not but still a lot of advertising that they are they are, influence people to buy that the product they are not need actually not need for example I give you a new example nowadays a lot of people right buying branded stuff


but for, for me branded stuff is a firm for me branded stuff is not something really important but because uh people's people a lot of people, but nowadays a lot of people buying because of they see the advertising so that the brand uh how the bag is good or


but for me a handbag a branded bag or a night market bag actually a bag is only to put all everything your thing in and convenient for you to bring out, but but because of the advertising they advertise that this bag is very small and you are you are more easy for you to bring up so that people people will go for the branded stuff instead of their buying that something they are really need it also


so, from my meal I don't think that a night market bag they will go to a advertising to to just attract the people to buy their bag but for the branded bag they will do advertising to attract people to buy their bag


so that they will choose from the when people see on the advertising they will choose to buy the bag instead of they go to night market they only know that uh actually you are selling this kind of bag is almost same as the branded bag and the and the function is almost same


debate topic one


okay thank you proposition uh now, before I continue with the point I would like to first uh dive into the question how far is failure an essential part of success so the debating topic I feel like we should be looking at is how far


the uh how essential is it how essential is failure so I believe failure is an essential part but is it to a great extent no I believe it only covers a small extent, and why do I say this because success in itself has various different factors so first of all you will be the hard work you put in the talent you have and also what kind of help you received from external forces so


how far is failure an essential part of success is very limited, in my own opinion, now let me give you an example thomas Edison he did not make the light bulb in the first attempt in fact he failed many times, but can you tell me that


if you keep repeating the same step and keep failing, will he reached the final success of creating a light bulb, of course not because they're always changes and when you fail and you make a change right it's not just the failure that is pushing you onwards its also the knowledge that you have gained from the failure its also the knowledge that you gain prior to the failure its all these kind of different knowledge that help you build what you want to build which is your success story


now moving back to the example of thomas edison, surely he must not be the only person building the light bulb he surely had helped he surely had uh various uh places of , various places to take inspiration from for example like lamps or like energy stations you look at these various water meals or whatever contraptions and


these contractions helped inspire him to build his own success which is the light bulb now, you're right we should not plan for failure why because you have to fail in order to succeed right because, but is that true


what if someone is extremely talented, someone so talented when they first go into the problem they immediately achieve success, well, did that make failure in central part of that success unfortunately no, so, to go back to my stance yes it's possible for failure to be a part of success but how far is it it is not extremely essential its only limited


to a small fraction a small factor of success there are various other factors for example talent, if thomas edison wasn't thomas edison let's say some random person in singapore back in the, don't know medieval era tried to invent a light bulb


if he didn't have talent do you think that after a hundred failures he would be able to make a light bulb, no, and this is the end of my point and I would like to bring the point back to the proposition


okay thank you proposition now before we continue on with material success I would like to ask one rhetorical question, success, is it only limited to material success of course not, you know what is another form of success people will ask you how do you how do you know at the end of your life whether you succeed or not and nine times out of ten people right they will tell you that material success is not their final which is not their final moment of success and why would they say that because their final moment of being successful is being happy


so now let's put into perspective the success of life okay and being let's say being happy or having no regrets is your success of life, is it necessary for you to be unhappy first before you're happy of course it's possible right is an essential part of being happy there is the part where when you're unhappy and there's something good happens and you become happy again no it's it's dopamine is the force that makes you happy


however there are also certain instances where you can be happy without failing, when you get your success in your first try or let say you achieve something, and you make a friend you make a friend is that failing to make a friend, when you make a friend you instantly have someone with companionship instantly form a bond with the other person and that derive happiness


and now we move on to the biggest scope of thing let's not look at the individual instance all these various moments in life, go they ultimately lead you to happiness, no, so at the end of this success right even if you failed


and keep failing, at the end you may not even feel happy, right or even if you're happy all the way from the start to the end let's say you you you feel like you're happy you keep buying material goods you know you keep earning a lot of money at the end you earn the five cs you know the car the condo all of these you earn all of it you feel happy in the moment but when you lying your deathbed


and you look back in your life, what if in that moment you feel unhappy, so being successful may not just be limited to material success, and I would also like, to broaden the scope of the conversation into more than just material success as well as more philosophical success so uh I will now


bring, the topic back to the proposition


so uh you bring up a good point and in all of your uh points that you bring up you have been talking about how in order to succeed you must fail essentially , now I would like to bring the scope back to what is actually failure how do you even measure failure so in all of your instances you been talking about oh when you fail you try it so you learn something new but in the process of learning something new isn't that a small success


so, in your failure that is success so can you say that the failure was the ultimate thing that brought you to your final success, so, now this is a topic that you can't really judged upon because is there a measurement of failure and a measurement of success can you put it into numbers can you calculate the particles can you see the atoms of the


of how much failure you have how much success you have and can you weigh the weigh them in oh I have tens failures and to success therefore ultimately have eight failure you can't do that, and within all of these failures that you mentioned that is still, success when you fail to make a friend but what do you learn you learn how to communicate correct so even


learning to communicate isn't that a bigger success, compared to getting a friend, so, this is the point that I would like to bring up, having failure as an essential part of the excess shouldn't be the correct phrase


right because failure in itself is just another word describes success right is a synonym, because in every failure you talk about there's always a small sense of success, am I right, so, what is the majority part of success what is the most essential parts of success how far


its failure, in this most essential part, to me I feel like it's still very limited, because within your failure there is a success so let's say eighty percent of the failure and twenty percent of the success, then, if failure itself contribute to thirty okay majority so let's say it contribute to fifty one percent so in fifty one per cent right you times by zero point two


how how much percentage is your failure your failure becomes only thirty four point five six percent of your entire success does that become the most, very very essential part of success, no, and I would like, the proposition to continue this point before we end the discussion


debate topic two


uh thank you for throwing the question back to me proposition so before I delve into way I would just like to sleep my stance that both experiences and material possessions both have value either arbitrarily or you know with an actual value now


however I still feel that material possessions are more valuable than experiences why because material possessions are something which affect experiences, experiences may or may not affect material possessions, but you can save for a fact that material possessions will guarantee an affect on experience now let me give a few examples when you go hiking if you hike in slippers and you hike in boots which one will give you a better experience


now the please refine me, proposition please, of course hiking equipment will make the hiking experience better correct so the value in the experience is increased


and since it's increased right, the most the multiplier is affected by the material possession this one instances where material position should be seen as more valuable because it is the one that creates a catalyst for a better experience, if we are talking slowly about betterment and now let's talk about maybe you you hike in slippers so you have a bad experience but as you were saying experiences build on with experiences when you wear slippers and you go for hike you decide to change to wear hiking equipment but what derive this talk


was it the experience of, hiking, in slippers no it's because you were wearing slippers in the first place, so this material possession caused such a detrimental effect on the experience that cause you to change your next experience, and therefore I feel that material possessions have more value than the experience itself now let me give you another example when you want to eat a hamburger right you want to experience the joy of eating a hamburger


but if you don't have buns and you only have, the meat itself would it become a hamburger, no there'll be a patty there will be a steak so can you still call it a true hamburger experience, no, so how can you have this experience without the material possession of buns


therefore material possessions still outweigh, experiences in value because in order to create such an experience you need to have material possessions, now finally let me give you the last example okay we've talk about food we've talked about physical now let's talk about our mental experience emotional experience okay no everybody has talked about love everybody thinks about love at some stage of their life correct and some may say love may


uh cross boundaries you know love may cross boundaries of material you know as long as you love the other person is okay, but, in order for you to have this experience you must have had some sort of, interaction between each other and these interactions


with what you wear and where you're at all are actually material possessions if you met in a convention in the convention you are wearing a certain clothes you're at a certain place, during a certain thing maybe like buying something if not buying something you're maybe uh actively been at in uh actively be participating in an activity


and this activity it may may or may not cost money but it's still you're holding onto material possessions, and this created the experience of your having uh your first encounter which is ultimately love now before I continue on my point I will just pass it back onto the proposition


okay so you've been talking about value and now mostly we've been defining value as happiness correct so what if we put experience with a monetary value is it possible let's take a look at the movie let's take a look at the movie recall uh recall


if I'm not wrong recall nineteen ninety seven there's a scene where he buys a dream he buys a good dream right and this dream is actually experience of someone else, and then there's actually a value put to the experience so once you put a value to the experience does it become a experience or does it become a material good


correct so let's say you can buy experiences, how much value would you put in the experience and once you determine the monetary value it will become a material goods, now, intrinsically you are telling me correct material possessions have monetary value


so let's look at the monetary value itself first, can you tell me now in this day and age without a single technology to purchase experience, can there be a monetary value no the one is made a good it can be it can have a monetary value


so ultimately it all depends on a short term and a long term in the long term once we have created technology to buy experiences, there will be a monetary value to experience and experience itself will be judged as a material good we may not even be having this debate but since in the long term since you've been talking about five years let's bring it up let's bring it to hundred years thousand years


ten thousand years, a hundred thousand years in all of these just once, experiences reaches this is graph of the toe and becomes a material good can you still tell me that experiences are more valuable than material possessions when they become material possessions themselves


now, right now what you are talking talking about is in the short term, it may not be the one second instant gratification but it's in the short term of five to ten years in the living span of human beings right in a living span of a single human being but when we look at humanity as a whole


right when we look at humanity as a whole and then we make things become, become able to be goods you know like energy, you know this is a prime example energy at first energy was just seen as an arbitrary value from the sun, you know plants take in the sun's energy and they they create themselves right that's what the caveman thought or they didn't even think about that but now energy is seen as a purchasable good


people buy energy, so in the past energy was just an arbitrary arbitrary thing it didn't have a monetary value but eventually when the when humanity learn to harness, harnessed energy and to


create a market for it it becomes a good, so this is the end of my point which I believe that in the long term in humanities viewpoint eventually experiences may become and most possibly become a material good and therefore material goods stand to have a higher value


now bring the back the point back to the proposition


okay so first of all I would like to point out of contradictory statements that the proposition made so at the beginning of this debate you have been talking about good and bad experiences both has value in itself, so now that we bring it back your talk now that you've changed it you change great experiences and joy and value brought


to the person, so now, value in itself is it just joy, then it changes your fact of good and bad experiences and most of the time good experiences, they do bring in a positive value but let's say, a negative value is that still a value in itself when you have more negative value if less negative value the more negative value would become more valuable than a less negative value


am I right, so, in your in your argument regarding material possessions will eventually make uh negative impacts into the society by itself, , these negative impacts in fact can be even more harmful than uh emotional impact that you have in your experiences and since its more harmful wouldn't you say it's more valuable in the nature of negative value


I would like to ask the proposition this question


okay let's say we bring the value to the positive side alright we are looking at how experiences bringing positive value and how material goods being positive value am I right, so, to have your experiences in the first place you're telling me you don't need material goods okay we're talking about the slipper and hiking boots okay but let's say we don't have any material good okay we don't have any material possession at all what kind of experiences will you have if you're stuck in a room okay let they cannot even be a room let's say you're in space


and you're just one man there without anything okay without a single material possession anything at all, how do you create experiences


, , , , so am I to say that you need material possessions in order to have your experience which ultimately makes them more valuable


and since the time has run out I think this will be the end of our debate


debate topic three


okay so you've been talking about how okay you don't bring in more hands from other countries and it sort when it's everybody sorts out their own problem right then there will be no problem for other countries itself am I right that's what you are trying to say well let me just bring it back to this uh situation lah, what if there is a situation where the own problem starts to develop to global countries and


and since it's in other countries and other countries choose to just solve their own problems, , does that mean that that that the other countries will eventually go to the all the separate countries to solve the problem that they created, and then that already defeats the point that you are trying to make that all governments hundred percent focus should be helping its citizens


when for example with the syrian conflict or let's say a conflict that created the Isis when the Isis at first it was just the individual problem within the syrian state am I right and then involved more than just a syrian stay involved, uh entire east middle east am I right so that becomes more than one country and then eventually it cross borders you know it cross the seas in fact to globalize into all the various different countries


so, at that point should the country's the should the syrian conflict in itself be able to even solve out its own problem, now ability wise is unable to, as unable to do so and other than the ability wise do you think its right for them


to only sold their own problem and for the country's of let's say united states singapore for them to sold for them to ignore this problem what brings harm to their country, so your point of it being, countries would solve their own problems becomes contradictory when their own problem spread out in a global scale


now, next I would like to talk about my personal point, countries experiencing accomplished should be left to solve their own problems and I believe it shouldn't be it shouldn't be that way and why because we need to look as humanity as a whole


humanity as a whole if you bring out the morals that everyone society believes in you're right the moral that society believed in to be good right is to be kind to others, and others in itself the definition of someone who is not yourself, am I right


so when other countries experience problem and as a human as a human, you may feel sympathy alright because society deems that you have to feel sympathy right we are under this societal structure, that philosophy morals everything is set and stone what is good what is bad


so what is good is to be kind to other people and once we have this deeply rooted nature and humanity we don't think about helping other people but we, subconsciously we will act to help other people, and that's the point I'm trying to make here


we may try to handle our own business but eventually we will be nosy we will want to help other people because that's how society structure ourselves to be, to be kind to others, now I would like to bring the point back to the proposition


okay thank you for your point proposition now , before I address that I would like to say something about your corona example so corona virus is something that developed from china in the itself, right it's something that developed from china and spread


two elsewhere so your point about it the whole work tackling it correct everybody solve the problem individually but the root of the problem started from china, so does that mean only china tries to find the vaccine for the corona virus


is that what is happening in the world right now no every country is trying to find the cure for the corona virus and becomes a global effort, and once it becomes a global effort it is not just its own problem anymore it becomes a global problem


am I right, so, countries experiencing conflict and in this case a medical conflict right, should not be left to sort out their own problems, correct, because everyone else needs to play an effort for these medical conflict to be solved


and not just locally but also globally, now next, when we talk about, conflict, countries solving experiencing the conflict left to should be left to sort out their own problems let's talk about countries


let's talk about china and hong kong, right, let's say is a conflict between states when its a a conflict between states or between, countries, who is the one who should be solving the problem, in china versus hong kong surely just be china purely china fall solve his problem or hong kong purely because it's their own countries problem


and when there's a conflict between, two different countries or more than one party, you know, it cannot be solved by a singular party, because for example when china make a state okay will accept you but you'll be under a different uh way of governance correct


but they didn't accept it so if you try to solve it yourself other people will have opinions, right what you are trying to say in a morality one you know some people they have, uh moral issues is killing so killing is wrong so you shouldn't send in planes am I right


within that already becomes more than one person's problem more than one countries problem the moment, that is a conflict between different states it becomes, two different countries experiencing, one conflict, so which country would you say will be the one to sort out the problem


there's no way of you knowing and it becomes a collaborative effort between two countries, therefore I believe that there's no such thing as having their own problems as many problems will derive into various, outsourced problems


that attack other states yup that's the end of my point uh may continue proposition


okay so now most of the aid that you've been talking about has been direct aid, correct direct eight bring in air planes during military power you know sending in food no becoming a source uh being a reliance source now let me bring out, what we talked about in direct eight


let's talk about it in the historical standpoint okay so for example the Hock Lee riots in singapore do you think that at least one politician would have reference the civil war in the america, the civil war between the north and the south america between the blacks and the whites back in the nineteen sorry back in the seventeen hundreds there's bound to be at least one politician will brought reference to that


and since they references that they were able to make appropriate decisions am I right and when they make these appropriate decisions based on another country does that become an indirect aid, and when it becomes an indirect eight does it mean that the country itself is solving his own problem


so let's say everybody solve their own problems without our widespread knowledge of another country, everybody's problem will end up being the same, everybody experience civil war, but if nobody shares the knowledge of what civil war they had and they're all isolated in their personal bubble


they will not be able to have an actual solution, because as history tells us, history is made and history is recorded so we don't make the same mistakes but if nobody knows history and everyone is stuck in their own history


everybody will be making the same mistakes and there would be nothing to learn from, and therefore where is the aid coming from let's not talk about direct aid let's say the country's solving their own their own problem, brings in contacts from various different countries you know that would be an indirect aid from another country would that be the country itself solving his problem no why because it took reference from another country and it took


the aid of their history, and with that I would like to pass the point on back to the proposition


for me I believe that sharing information and having information spread globally is a form of aid before, but I would like the end that discussion and talk about something else okay I would like to talk about, , what, what defines the country are we talking about physical boundaries are we talking about


uh a citizenship so let's say a problem occurs when a united states citizens came to singapore and they did they did they had a problem so the country in itself doesn't govern them am I right so, who is the one who is supposed to take charge of this problem should the united states be handling a problem within the physical boundaries of singapore or should singapore be helped should singapore resolving its own issue


when the own issue is actually citizens from another country, so this kind of areas are also various different problems you can look at you know that not just global problems where affects the country by itself but problems that expand outside of physical borders right outside of geological locations you know


it's, maybe sometimes about more abstract problems like you know from various different citizens from other countries and what if they migrated, you know these are all things to ponder about now that would be the end of our debate I believe and uh thank thank you proposition


debate topic one, okay, so, I believe that the best plan for success should always include failure in the plan


so but when I talk about failure I would say, the failure must not come from the result of, not being prepared or making uninformed rash decisions it is mainly due to unforeseen circumstances or obstacles that just come up along the way and not because the person doing the endeavour did not do enough do not do due diligence before


going forward with this plan, so I say you should definitely plan and prepare for failure and hence it is sucks uh essential, in the pursuit of success, because I believe if you end up trying to prepare for every failure and predicting every obstacle you you will face


just to, prevent that from happening, you are in fact stopping yourself from taking action, and eventually you are just delaying your success, so I believe that the person that is working on his tenth failure will be far more successful than the person who is just preparing for his very first perfect success


so and then, because that is true because, there, there will only be certain lessons you can takes away from from failures


and I think one of the greatest lessons you take away from failure is the mental resilience that you can only know, uh how you fear in that aspect when you face the failure itself, and then it's so my style is there is no doubt you will face failure and what you need to do is train yourself to always come back stronger with every obstacle you face and that is what will lead you to reach your eventual success if you don't have the mentality to embrace failure you will never get to where you want to be


so I believe one of the essence of a successful person is the ability to get over failure again and again and again eventually till he reaches the angle


hence the person must learn to embrace failure and except that it's it is an essential part of the journey, another point I would like to make is that, when when you take failure when you


embrace failure it it you just acknowledge the fact that there is a risk of something going on uh something going wrong, that, it is not a hundred percent safe, endeavour, and without taking risks you will never be able to make a breakthrough or reach greater heights cause you've only been doing what


people have general tried and tested methods and you will never be able to go further than anyone else has been so to have failure in your plans means, there is the risk there is the risk of failing but there is also the risk of succeeding more than anyone has ever had


and ya that's my point


okay okay, K ya uh, thanks for bring up like the how far the extent of it so, uh yes I do agree that you know the factors that contribute to success


you know there's like really a lot of factors as you mentioned from how talented or all the intrinsic nature of the person plus the environmental factors the the upbringing the connections the, opportunities given, but err


you have when in the, example you mention yes thomas Edison wouldn't have, uh, eventually invented the light bulb if he had kept repeating his failures but I believe that there is without doubt that, every failure that he he faced there were some lessons he took away and


so, so uh as I said in my uh first point, when I see failure I I refer to the failure of someone who is prepared, has has done his homework, before going forward so it's not the mentality of someone who keeps repeating the same step or like going at it with the failing at over and over again by simply doing the same thing so


someone who has taken something away from the previous uh failures and employ a different strategy a new approach to it and subsequently filled again well in uh in that in that sense that's two separate lessons from two failures you know cause a different situations and not


uh you know just the same, failure over and over again, and ya there and you also mention there are always changes, you know in every uh a scenario you face in your future there there are always changes and I guess the mentality I would like to propose is that


uh, to accept that failure is inevitable that it is, it can be a huge part and accept that flag so that you take away the fear and , the mentality that you have to avoid it at all costs


to just, uh go, and try it out, take action, instead of trying to prevent the failures, and you mentioned how he wouldn't have made the light bulb, without the help of looking at other things like lamps or other form of lighting contraptions and I believe that that itself


is the final product but we did not see all the behind the scenes of how many failures those inventors had faced themselves before eventually reaching their success because at uh of a lot of times all we see is the final product and the success and not the hard work and struggles behind it


and then, uh you mentioned another example of how, there are certain people who, who are so talented that they achieve success on their first try without ever having to put up much of a flight or


see as many difficulties along the way and yes I do believe such examples do exist in the world and there are people there are very talented in the fields there they they are in but I believe that in today's uh world, it is, not a very viable strategy for a person to be so specialized in only one field and uh be


so like well known for only one thing like, you have to have, , a variety of skills to be able to succeed you can't just, you know like for, apple you can't just have an iphone and expected to last it you for a lifetime you need


you know all the marketing and all the further uh, devices that come out throughout the day uh in the future so, there are talented people but there aren't that many people that, can be talented in that many special fields that they always try in


get get it on the first try, so, I would say that, it is a one of it is probably a one of that, if you would like to achieve sustainable success, you need


to venture out into different fields where you might not be that talented and accept, that you will fail even though you might have achieved great results in a separate field, and that's personal development growth, et cetera


okay uh , okay I think , okay first our, again tackled is a example of the, you know making a friend so, what I see from this example is that


yes you have achieved success, in making a friend and you know it's a very joyful occasion but things but making a friend starting your business so any other form or project you like to, embark on it's going to be a long process


there are gonna be many steps along the way so yes you achieve, success on the first uh first move which was to, be acquainted with someone, but, I guess it is the point that at every single step of the way


you can put in the measurement of whether it is a failure or success, and, with there being so many steps along the way, it is inevitable that, even


out of ten steps you fail three four five times it is inevitable and that is just making a friend is just one small part of life like every single day, you are likely to, part take in dozens or even hundreds of scenarios so


branching out from a single event you have so many, chances of failing and succeeding and at every point, there are further steps along the way where they are failure and success failure and success so it is unlikely I feel that


you will be able to hit that success just like that, by any factor by like how easy it is or how talented the person is at every single step of the way, I don't think that is a, sustainable, mindset to have


and uh, and I I like the point you brought up about how you can keep failing failing failing failing in life but eventually at the end still never get to succeed which is a reality


you may, keep failing do doing all you can in your ability, but still never achieving your goal, that's a, very real, scenario, but then again I would, I would like to


you know uh ask you to imagine what if, in that person's uh, every life even though he ended up you know in his deathbed unhappy, what if he did not, take uh make that decision to try at every step of his life


what if you took away all the failures, so in the sense that he never failed and never experienced all that unhappiness, how would he have lived his life than what would he have done, what would it be alive he was proud, of


or some some a life that he was satisfied with, we've never having tried by removing all his failures, and, in ya what what had what does he have to show for, in his life like he never had any failures, but at the same time


he has never had any life experiences nothing to remember his life, which is really sad, all I say, uh yup and back to you


okay ya definitely true like, how you want to measure or how you want to define failure and success will definitely vary a lot from, person to person definitely but I think a very broad uh definition that people were


agree with is, whether you have achieve the goal you wanted to , uh you whether you have achieve your goal or not like that's uh the basic simple, statement I can make about it, and I think if when you tie it down together with that it it makes it very much uh evaluable


because when you have a goal you can very much tie it down in uh physical things like you know you want to like make like two thousand dollars a month or you want to grow your, your follower rate account to five hundred viewer per month like those that is very much


calculable, and you succeed you succeed when you reach it and you fail when you don't, and, and I guess uh we both agree that, how you really use mentioned about uh they're being successes in failure


so I think that that uh that point itself is about how you view failure do you view it positively or do you viewed negatively when you take away something for it you embrace and see failure, positively like, even if I fail I didn't really lose there's something that I took away from it and in a sense I see that as a win


so, so when you view in such a positive like, it is fair to say that, you can put it you can say that failure is a big part of success because, at the end of it end of the day you do not seeing it as something that's bad or you should avoid you from


so even if you say, failure is ninety nine percent of success, I think the person will still gladly agree with that statement because success makes uh success is success success is a success and you feel failure positively


so they will just gladly make agree with me that failure is a big part of success, uh that and I end my point, and this debate with that


debate topic two, okay so


I agree that experiences are more valuable than material possessions because material possessions are materially speaking, they only degrade over time like you can fix it you can refurbish it you can, you know repair it and all that but


the physical quality of it only degrades over time, and even as owners and possesses of uh material possessions we can all see that the satisfaction we get from owning something greatly diminished over time, like whenever you get a new appliance new clothes new phone or whatever it's always it's always fun exciting and fresh in the beginning but after a few days or weeks


the value you get you know how excited you get always diminishes significantly, so, , but experiences on the other hand, they they truly stick with us for life they never degrade


a or they rot don't rot away and, the value we get from it uh doesn't simply diminished, so from how we create it and how we look back at it how much value it has is truly dependent on us


because , it is really the honest is on us to go out there and make experiences to make it as meaningful as exciting as memorable as we want it to be, and the uh the possibilities are infinite, and subsequently when you look back at your experience


to see uh how much you have uh how much value you derive from it, that is also subjective to the person in the sense that, you can cherish and learn a lot from an experience but you can also, uh, disregard it and forget about it


but the possibility is there the probability is there for the experiences to grow in value overtime because something might have happened you might have acted in a certain way in the past and you might have gotten your uh it's uh your lessons from it


but then you can add onto it with future and a further, experiences that you might compare it to your uh previous experiences look back at it and from there gain new perspectives new lessons and new thoughts that


essentially gave more value to the previous experience and you build up a life of experiences and over experiences experiences over experiences they come together and, it it's value just exponentially increases over time, which is something that material possessions will never be able to do


so what do you think about that


ah definitely I would prefer to uh prefer to have to be well equipped with hiking equipment


(mmhmm)


okay, (mmhmm) so you put out of the point of how you know like uh materials and experiences they are like, they can't be separated from each other they affect both uh one another and so the essential question is which one is more valuable than the other


so in your, in your example of hiking so is the hiking experience more important or more valuable to the person, or the gear, so, the example I would like the purpose is


does the person, go for a hike for the views uh to immerse themselves in the environment for healthy lifestyle that's the experience, or do they go out because they like the feeling of covered shoes on their feet


, so which which one you know when when they look back at what they did they did they think of how beautiful the scenery was, or how great of a time I had or like or how sick my shoes look on the ground


so I believe that the experience is the winner here and when we looked at love and, wait let's look at love in a marriage, you we ya definitely, wherever we go whichever part of our life we are


surrounded by material possessions and they they greatly matter green leaf to us, but then again the value we get from it, you can have a, three carat diamond ring, but


how much emotion do you, uh you know, does a couple like a person get from seeing a three carat ring on display or that's compared to to uh one carrot ring, that has been with the the the person for five years of your life


it was the ring that the husband you know went down on the one knee and proposed to her with which one would be more valuable to her, it is the experiences, behind the material possession the story, it essentially the experience behind the possessions that give it the value and not just


the material possession itself, because uh it was such as subjective thing of value, it's, uh we give value to something where we looked at material possessions it is, most of the value comes intrinsically from the material possession which is how its made


how it looks, its functionality, and aesthetics and all that that, has already been fixed that is what the material possession it is and true, the the, how much value and how much joy you get from consuming it is can be subjective but I feel that's the that's the minority


because how you feel of uh towards a product is generally the sentiments are shared across many people, and uh how much they evaluate it does not deviate by a lot because as I said the value is intrinsically already made along with the product


but the value you get from experiences how you make it and how you look back at it that is entirely up to the person itself and I believe with the right uh mentality, and the right mindset to towards the outlook towards life and


a responsible reflective mindset, the value you can extract from such experiences, can be immense, yup


uh okay okay I think I would have disagree with you there because I think


putting a price on something does not automatically make it a material possession, and you are talking about something that may or may not happen which is a discussion that probably is difficult to have , and for simplicity sake I would think I would like to focus on material possessions being actual objects


and products that we see you can touch can have possession likely they have and not uh metaphorical things like I have a dream you know I have memories that I don't think even if you put a price on that I don't think it or you just converse moving material possessions


uh, and, okay but okay a new point I would like to bring up, is that, we often look at, fair values uh by, by ourselves like how much value or how much satisfaction it gives ourself but then we must also take into account that


material possession can harm others, because material possession is, is inseparable from like capital capitalism and there is a very dark side to capitalism in the damages it brings


uh for example of which, is the production methods they are, uh undoubtedly uh many unethical production, matters they are being carried out right now like child labour force labour or, even a more much more common underpaid labour


so by putting at a material possessions on a pedestal in like you know, consuming and consuming and consuming, we are actually kind of, encouraging and letting such practices survived, and as I do believe as responsible global citizens we should also take into account the harm it brings to others


and not just the value it brings to ourselves, and, not only to the people there's also the environmental impacts of such productions such as the dumping of waste products wastage of materials and, you know damage like plastic waste and all that so I believe with such knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes


this will bring about a sense of shame, and kind of guilt, which will diminish the the joy and value that material possessions can bring about, while experiences on the other hand many law abiding responsible citizens


to often can make great experiences without harming others or without, , come without it having to come at a cost of other people or the environment, on the other hand they can actually be experiences where in benefits other people in the environment


so and I believe such experiences bring much much value to the person, so, that's my point, would you like to discuss that


you when you say more harmful, and more negative in the sense that all the suffering that the environment and these people go through is much worse than, err, the negative emotions that we feel the negative experiences we get from such


uh, behaviour, I would say the point I would like to make is to entirely stay away from such uh behaviors that encourage the damage to the physical,


physical labour and physical environment, by not, uh not giving such importance to material possessions by not, having to a believe that that is where we derive our happiness from because


once we have the mindset that material possessions, are, things are the things that give us the most value, we will simply keep consuming and consuming and consuming which leads to what you have said, uh this damage which is even worse which is kind of the worst thing possible as compared to our the damage to our emotional wellbeing


so, all in all, we should not view material possessions, as the things that, give us the most value, and look towards it being experiences and we just avoid, comparing the two negatives altogether and just focus


on the good, (mmhmm)


that that is is uh you know that's a weird space between reality and fiction because realistically there's no way a man can survive in space without anything at all, and the experience we'll we talking about is death


which I don't think is the topic we should be focusing on here so I would like to ask, yes yes yes yes I


okay


debate topic three, okay so I am going to be arguing the point that countries experiencing conflict conflict should be left to solve their own problems without any foreign intervention


because firstly, , the duty of a government is to care for its own people, therefore with that as the core priority it wouldn't be ethically wrong to say that the government should devote a hundred per cent of their resources to their own country and leave others to solve their own issue so on one hand when you give hundred per cent of focus to your people


it means solving their problems by yourself and second of all it means there won't be any left, to intervene in other countries, and I say this because the country


govern uh the people in governing a country, they themselves should be in the best position to understand the problem have a good, overview of the resources they have to tackle the issue, knowing the needs of the people and the hence they would be the most efficient in delegating the resources and solving the issue in the most efficient and quickest way possible to minimise the harm to everyone


but then when you have people coming in, like, too many cooks spoil the broth right it brings in uh it can even be a form of distraction when you have to delegate resources to liaise with foreign representatives you know figure out the logistics


of moving things and people around here and there when simply put, you could have just focus, on making the moves yourself and essentially solving the issue much quicker rather than complicating matters, by bringing in


more hands, so, would you like to discuss that first


(mmhmm)


okay, err, okay first of all so let's say uh and when a problem spreads across across borders and it becomes something that cannot be defined by borders and you know out of a single country


I believe there is still a way, for, people to uh the countries to solve their own issues but still cooperate in solving the issue as a whole because you know when at issues where it is not countries at conflict with each other like let's say


uh corona, it is not one country against the other or any uh animosity like that but it's just something that is across the bull but it is still possible for countries to just focus on their own, and collectively try to solve the issue together by focusing on their own country


and I think it is a very literal example that countries have be closing off their borders and focusing on managing the, situation on their own land, that and that is essentially what the world has decided is the best course of action in solving this issue


and , then you talk about the the morality of how it is, uh in our nature to help when you see that uh, something is wrong, and I guess this is very it's gets complicated even in syria where you brought up you know the conflict and all the wars


you can let's say when when the US goes in, and, helps uh helps the issue by bringing their arms and their military, and defending, uh the the citizens there there is always a site being protected and there's always a site


you know at they're they're conflict with and then when you bringing morality there there are many different schools of thought you can follow off you know like uh benefiting the majority or, you know like a act of defence but there will always be some humans where they say


killing is immoral, so, they shouldn't they will advise against war and all that so when you bring in weapons and all your guns and planes to shoot down people, they might disagree to that as well that that goes against people's morality to do that


so there were, it gets complicated, and then, and I would also like to raise how there's no free lunch in the world like, when people when you if you expect to receive it from someone else you should always be prepared to give something return like it is always


ma more often than not, a political move when foreign countries intervene in, in other countries, and you see that, it is usually the more developed and affluent countries that are


interfering, with a, more, a poorer to do countries they are like third world of developing you know in the form of money or like aid resources and all that, but, these use this usually uh


incurred adapt for them, and if the country was it already in such a state where they are unable to solve their own issues majority uh points towards the fact that they are lacking resources and, they are not in a position as well to do all


how will they manage to carry on this additional debt and a gratitude to another superpower that, will likely be able to use this as leverage to make them influence them to make, you know uh decisions that against their flavour


and basically be a puppet on manipulated by them once they, get themselves into this situation of receiving aid from other people, so I believe that, in many cases of such uh intervention it causes more harm than good by solving the immediate issue but in the long term it just uh opens them up to a lot more holes where they can be tackled down with in the future


yup, (mmhmm)


, okay uh, so here once again we are trying to establish the boundaries of what we mean by, you know, countries having their own problems and once it develops do ha when does it become my own problem and when does it become our problem so you are have today try to argue the point that yes countries !woo! should be left to solve their own problems and when it escalates to when it becomes other people problems uh or


a collaborative problem yes, I will I will take the stand that I agree with you that everyone involved should put in all their efforts to say that but, if we were to look at how countries uh it's uh solves of their own issues and, you want to talk about the china hong kong example


so yes obviously two parties are involved and we see and we can't just but we can kind of still put a boundary to it by saying how hong kong's problem is that, you know they want their independent rights and china's problem is that


hong kong is not following their orders that that is two separate problems from two different perspectives, and they can still set out to solve those issues by themselves like it is one big problem on the world stage but when you go down to the


country itself they have they see it as different problems for themselves like they see different, they see, uh what's wrong is different to them and they will have different approaches to solve the issue from their own sites, so it is still very much possible for them to be solving their own issues and even if you bring in a collaboration they are essentially not trying to solve it together because they are fighting their for their own agenda


and uh, so, so in that sense should foreign powers intervened india conflict, and, I would say even for the country even for certain countries themselves they would


disagree like they would rather be left alone because of how it sends a message to the global stage that they cannot fend for themselves, and they are unable to solve their own issues and it kind of just see makes them seem like a pushover, and they just lose their solid uh sovereignty


so it is a very politically damaging move when, when other people get involved in your business, so cause it just sends the message that you are not capable enough to govern, the issues in your own then requiring help


so, , uh furthermore the second point I would like to add is, when you encourage such behaviour of, uh getting more hands on board, we seen it for everywhere you can cultivate a attitude of reliance where the governing body gets complacent


and they don't manage to find the uh figure things out for themselves they don't manage to develop the right systems and infrastructure to cope with the underlying issues but they only rely on whatever comes in to fill the gaps but without actually having to


figure out things out for themselves and actually developing a sustainable system where they can take care of their own people and they just end up you know receiving it aid and aid and this is just an incompetent, uh nation, and there's also you know the issue of corruption where even when you send it over it doesn't actually goes into like relief efforts or solving the issue and and is quite a scary thought


to see to think that, these acts of goodwill, uh very much possibly being pocketed and used in malicious waste, I end my point


okay


ya I feel there's a that's a pretty, great area to discuss about because, such form of aid in terms of uh information or (ppc) referencing other countries past successes and failures or


their past achieve on whatever they did in the past for the country being reference itself, practically speaking they didn't have to give up everything anything in the current like obviously if you talk about it in the past like ya they did you know sacrifice a lot of lives a lot of uh white money or whatever resources in that battle


hundreds of years ago but, in that moment of itself practically speaking they don't have to give up anything they don't have to waste they don't have to lift a single muscle to provide it so in a sense is that a form of provision, when they didn't have to do a single thing


and, in this with uh along the same day, this form of it can even be involuntary, like they might not want to help a certain country but their country can still draw upon their past lessons and history to uh you know make their own decisions so


in that sense I would like to question is that a form of providing it


thank you very much


done, part one debate topic one, okay


okay should begin, he firstly we start of establishing what is art right so we all know that art is just not ready, taking a canvas and painting right now art it comprises of a lot of things for example drama music


dance and all these so in essence we see art, as a way of expressing yourself and in that way you can likened it to a language just like how you want to put across your thoughts your opinions in say beat your english beat english or mother tongue chinese malay tamil whatever


right so in that sense it will next your way of expressing something we see that it's rather subjective which means something that, would appeal to a person would not appeal to another person but just because it does not appeal to another person that does not outright didn't mean that it's bad art we see that perhaps that person it doesn't the person just kind appreciate that form of art because


, art like I've already mentioned art is something subjective so we all have our different ways of interpreting different things so just from I tell you something work in whatever language it is whether or not you appreciate my comment whether or not you


we're on the same wavelength I think the same kind of logic applies to art where it is merely a way of expression, and and saying so it's very hard to say that it's a bad art totally


and , bad art, and she think is bad art


and okay, in that bigger sit right the only thing that makes art more appealing as opposed to what I previously mentioned like when I likened, art to say a language right you come and tell me that oh just like how embarrassed a yardstick for to determine what is good and bad language you know having proper grammar having proper syntax and everything


when it comes to art what set it set it it what sets it aside different from all other ways of expressing itself is that , it is really very free form it is something that does not really have much limitations to it to each his own you know within what your capability is to within what knowledge of the art form you have


anything that you produce anything that brings you joy anything that brings you satisfaction, is art right so as long as I can understand you as long as it's just your way of expressing yourself whether or not it's within whether or not you have the complete technical knowledge of art is different as long as you are able to express itself that should be art at insing so


I still maintain that there is no such thing as back up, because one year already able to express herself and, and too there are really no limitations is all within your capability how much of , art do you appreciate in your own on your own and how much of knowledge do you have over it so the end of the day again I put forth


it's about how much it able to appreciate of that art form that someone or something is projecting so at the end of the day again it is rather subjective so some people like perhaps like you you you would want to


you only appreciate art that is done properly with all the necessary knowledge wrote with so for someone like me as long as I'm able to understand the message the meaning being conveyed by that person through a certain art form I'm good I can appreciate it


and ya


no, oh sorry I forgot ya, okay uh do you sure you done, okay so when you come and tell me that


oh any form of art that conveys ill thoughts for example something there's derogatory or something that promote violence or ratio arm tension , is bad art I think that would not really relate to the art per se but the kind of the person who's


who's , releasing that form of art right so it's more to the person rather than art as a whole and also as cliche as it may sound beauty is in the eye of the beholder so what


I like his art right and you mentioned that what I don't like is backed up but that being said the art is already put out so by right , that art should have been something very beautiful to someone so when you look at bad as the label is it's not right to just immediately label whatever you don't like as bad art because


it's just very subjective this your opinion you don't like it fine it's not appreciating it and that is how it should be and should remained so while you mentioned that while it should be maintained that you don't appreciate that form of art you don't appreciate that particular art form


it's not that it is bad art it's just that it's not your cup, of tea and also on the whole idea of nepotism and because how some people they they engage with art without having the proper experience or they rightfully don't


deserved that form of recognition through that form of art, again that is not bad art it's just, the consequence the the , it's just the circumstances right so even if they perform that piece of art


through they didn't I think that is not really art I mean sorry let me try to find my words, I think what they put up is too art and that is a different topic all together right when you talk about nepotism I don't see how it is really relevant this topic because really now we're talking about bad art good art


I think the whole idea of nepotism is really the ethics behind the artist artist industry the art industry, and in that being said just because that person did not become an artist through his own dedication his own


his own liking it it does not mean that what that person put out was bad art it perhaps just means that the recognition that they've got through their art form which was perhaps , not as much appreciated while came through


unethical means right so in being so I still maintain that even through nepotism people that gained fame gained recognition through their art form undeservingly still did not put up still their art form is not considered bad art just that perhaps


the recognition that came up with the art that they put up was not deserved


okay then I'm good to go and then


oh


, part two debate topic two, uh


!hey!, singaporeans appreciate the appeal of theatre dance on music in our society and I completely agree with the this statement , first it we have to understand that times are changing while on the pass singaporeans may have had the mindset that


theatre dance on music there's not ready to have a place the so standard place in our society , predominantly because we're young nation there are much more aspects of life that we have to put ahead of us to prioritise to get ahead in life I think right now as a country we have reached the point where


we are very comfortable in most aspects of our life and we can start to understand and appreciate the appeal that some of the aspects that for example theater dance or music very non traditional forms you know they're not your stem subjects they're not


very technical they do stand a place in our society, and especially with now as being a more global world uh global place to live in there's a lot of liberalization in our society and also and there's also with a lot of western ideologies


coming into ours into our land and also the more youthful youth nowadays the kind of exposure that they have to, the internet event and I think all this help to proliferate the goodness of theatre dance and music and hence


singaporeans do appreciate that appeal of art and more so right we do see that this appreciation is a lot stemming from a very young age, and a lot has to be given to the kind of


efforts put up by the government you know we'll beat through grants for artists in their whatever field of work they're doing or is it in schools the kind of programmes that they've initiated in schools


which I'm not say do have a high take up rate why would anyone who has no appreciation whatsoever for the appeal of theatre dance on music , want to study in greater detail as an entire subject an entire subject that has has much weightage as your normal english failure your your standards stem subjects right


so in having said that if you are willing to invest that much of time to study something it clearly is a sign that singaporeans are appreciative of, the appeal that theatre dance and music have in our society


okay so first thing on the whole point of art not being a priority to singaporeans firstly me to establish that just because it is not a priority does not mean that they're not


appreciative of it I get it that it came as a contention to the point when I said that oh times are changing last time people had more pressing issues to deal with right, but even so now even if now they may have other pressing issues to deal with over theatre dance on music and just because they do not prioritise art


does I mean theatre dance on music does not mean that they do not appreciate it we still see that it still exists as part of their life it does not necessarily need to be a priority in the whole idea of them, being so caught up with their own daily work their own hectic lifestyles that they don't have time to make to they do not have the time to uh luxury to appreciate the art right we see that


art theatre dance on music the nature of it is just such that you don't have to make that, explicit effort to go out to appreciate that piece of art is a very innate formed that is really just part of you just like a feeling when I say that oh I love you it doesn't mean that I need to make time to love you I is really just how you feel about it it's rather an emotion that you feel


and in that sense we see that singaporeans are appreciative of that appeal that it brings and again like I had mentioned no one would want to spend that much of time to pursue something right from the start at , a tertiary level to


if they do not appreciate and when we talk about these students who going back to my earlier topic I already talk about these students who choose to study a certain topic you see that, well our art is being exposed at a very young age, to us the later part of your schooling age especially towards the tertiary part is students who are at the age of sixteen seventeen eighteen that totally able to make their own choices and is to choose to pursue elective programmes basically because the appreciate the appeal of theatre dance on music


and the whole idea of how art may not appeal to everyone because it's a very, foreign concept is a very western concept and while at singapore we are still a very conservative society, we at you need to understand that art is not really something very radical not very liberal if you're conservative fine but all means there are theatre dance and music in the conservative areas as well like for example just now in the previous debate you mentioned the whole idea of


the indian classical dance then itself is a very conservative form of art, and if we see that and this kind of art can , can be performed within their own confined within their own conservative limits we still see that there's still room for people to appreciate it and the whole idea of how people may not be really uh appreciate art forms there too offensive


perhaps I'm a very vulgar person if you come and give me a very a a rap music with where many vulgar lyrics I may appreciate that if I'm say someone with the very crude mouth and I hear all all these I think I won't appreciate that


right so it's really to each it's own ya so even very conservative society as to see that art forms can still be appreciated


okay so in the whole idea of how if there's a backlash then singaporeans don't appreciate it right we first need to understand that theatre dance on music there just is very very wide it's huge right so the kind of conservative art forms it is


I mean vulgar art form so you're saying that could potentially brings backlash is really just a part of art right you have needed to look at the bigger picture where on art as a whole everyone has their own preferences and


there would definitely be certain areas in theatre dance uh appeal that would appeal to these singaporeans, and , so to totally have a blanket and say that oh just because they're some forms of art that would go against the belief of a very conservative singaporean society then there's no appeal for it so in saying so I think


we just can't choose to very straw man's argument, does not set wrong on the singaporean society and hence altogether singaporeans are not appreciative of it so one clear example I can bring to you is in the current context era into this status quo we're all


huddled at home COVID-nineteen and everything we see how music brings people together we see how young school boys in primary schools they come up with very nice songs to express their thoughts on this hope pandemic situation we see how people


while in isolation at hotel stand at them by their balconies just listening to someone play the tunes of home, right because it really does connect everybody we see how everyone coming out to their windows singing loudly together as a singaporean society may I emphasise songs that really unite them and we see that this is where singaporeans appreciate the appeal of


music right they could have just setback and is so far ah what I can show my appreciation through typing oh go go may healthcare heroes but no everyone chose to come up to the windows , chose to take part in a very communal event they chose to engage in a song together


and we see that this is where singaporeans appreciate the appeal of theatre dance on music because they see that !hey! this is, our uh our , you know they stand in solidarity it they they see that this brings them together rather than just sitting at their own comfort behind their smartphones typing something they choose to engage in something that they've appreciate and feel would connect better it ready


placed to their heart strings and this is a clear indication of how singaporeans do appreciate the appeal of theatre dance on music in our society, yup done


part three debate topic three


okay so firstly let me just uncover what necessity means right necessity in the context of this statement this debate it would mean that it's not a want but a need right so in saying so


I would I would say that art is merely a luxury it's good to have but I can't do without it right, and especially in the singaporean society right now we see that people we see that


having such as small population size being a very small nation , there are things that we want to put ourselves in the forefront of for example being a leader in say medical in the medical field being a leader in the manufacturing industry and so on


as such as a singaporean society if I were to come up to tell you that oh I'm very invested in arts it has to be establish that you have , you have uh uh settled in your life with you know you have a good work that really does bring you the constant money constant dollar that you are able to have the luxury of time have the


you are able to enjoy art so in saying in saying so art definitely is a luxury it's good to have but I can do without right so it's very important to know the difference between the needs and the wants


so you can only consider art as part of your lifestyle you can only consider art being invested in arts if you have already uh satisfied all the needs that you have in your life, and one clear example is how in the current pandemic situation COVID nineteen where you know a lot of when we came under the circuit breaker and lot of industry had industries had the stopped work right and the kind of permissible industries that were allowed to carry on


were essential activities and insane so the first industry to be shut down most the art scene and why so basically because, by by national context within art is a non-essential industry it does not really help you with sustaining on a day to day basis it without art you can still leave you you can still pay afford your daily meals you can still


get by right so hence I propose that arts are merely a luxury and definitely not a necessity


okay so, you brought up the whole issue of oh imagine staying in confinement staying at home without any form of arts right without watching any movies without listening to any music


I still stand by that art is a luxury because yes I agree that my my home stay would have been much more painful without all these without the access to art any form of art form , but if I didn't have it would I still be here talking to you would I still survive through it yes I will be perfectly fine you know at it's just like how for example I apply many layers of skincare on me


I still think that skincare is a luxury is my face going to be fine without all this yes it will be in a bad state probably but, at the end of this skincare is too a luxury if you can afford it good for you you have good plump skin right and if you don't have it


oh too bad you had you still have your skin but it's not good, and just like that with arts yes right life is great and that is a whole idea of arts being a luxury it brings greatness to you it truly enhance your home stay right it really made your you being in confinement much more better but if I had taken that element away from you


you will still be totally fine today but just that perhaps you would be down you would be pilled you wouldn't be the best of mood but you still be doing perfectly fine and the whole issue of mental health right we see that being able to


and to really understand that you do have some mental have issues being able to tap on arts to help with your mental health is already a luxury because if we go back quite a few years so even right now theaters


you don't really see much issues of mental health surfacing is not because that isn't any issues on mental health but because ready arts, is a luxury and there and just like that art is a way to help solve mental health issues but is not the only way we see that just because arts is a solution to a problem you have


does not necessarily mean that it's a need that are other forms of the other solutions that would help solve the problem that you identified so while you did mention arts as a solution and just because a solution you cannot come up to holy tell me that it's a necessity


right if it's reads there it's a luxury it's, it's good to have again I put it so if you talk about the whole idea of how mental health is a very pressing problem it's an imminent problem we see that they're, healthcare experts that you can turn to we see that there are just normal counselling that you can go for and we see that


or just going to the park to get a breeder that would also help with their mental health issue the whole idea of tapping on arts to solve your mental health issue is georgy and luxury because, mental health is a very serious problem where and the and the whole idea of youth tapping to art which is a very expensive industry per se shows that you do have


a lot of money to spend or a lot of you are very lucky in that sense to tap on such an expensive industry to solve your problem why I say it's expensive because , it looked at to look if you look at the art scene right


it is a lot of effort that has to be put in to it especially in the singaporean context , we are a very small society and to gain that , kind of traction to keep your art form going it does require a lot of effort on your side, and when I mean that expensive I just don't mean monetarily even the kind of time and effort that you have to put to make your art relevant in the singaporean society is a is a clear indication that it is very expensive


and for us to be able to consume that form of, expensive industry is is show its a sign that arts is a luxury and not and not a necessity


okay so you mentioned the whole idea of how arts and it's an instant way to boost your mood and everything am my right, okay so you see having this instance solution itself


it's a context its you conceiving the arts is a luxury because if you are able to uh to solve your problem instantly at that moment you see how blessed how privilege to are they have access to a solution that


solve your problem instantaneously right you don't have to go to the struggles of very long winded way to find your , a solution to your problem so again that I would still put forth any problem that we see necessity as solutions to a problem and in this case while arts are a solution to a problem


and we see that it is really solution that is befitting of, people who are able to afford that kind of solution right and the whole essence that they're able to solve the problem immediately it shows how is a luxury because


we have progressed so much as the nation that we have already especially in a singaporean context of singaporean society where most of us have already have all our needs covered we're blessed in that sense that now we just drive to


get better and better and is struggling to get better and better you we don't need to understand that this better things that we have getting I really luxury when I have, ya so, uh definitely arts are a luxury and not a necessity and also the whole idea of how


the, of how education is a necessity yes it is a necessity because it helps you understand better the kind of sit , the kind of world that you're living in but if you talk about arts it's again of way of understanding life it's a way of expressing yourself so even without arts were still able to find other solutions to understand the world around you right


and, , ya so I think again I'll read to read my examples of


the current situation now of how, when you put together all the different aspects of our singaporean society how they're just so much more pressing issues that we have to deal with to keep ourselves going even as an economy even as from the social aspect


alright political aspect that we see that arts are merely a luxury and that you don't need it to be in a singaporean society for you to get by on a day to day basis


part one debate topic one


so as she said art is like a language so there is such a thing as bad command of language where you make, grammar mistakes and uh no certain mistakes that you have to properly study before, doing it so, I feel that if the art form is not properly studied


it should be uh considered bad art because certain art forms require specific skill sets and it can only be done justice if it's properly studied so certain dance uh uh art forms such as dance you need to properly studies certain


uh techniques and for singing you need to know the music theory you can't, if if a singer just sings without knowing basic, music foundation I would regard that as bad art


ya so as you said, art is subjective so, , s a form of art that you appreciate, not everyone appreciates and a form of art that you don't appreciate someone else might appreciate so , if I show you a art how do I say


that there there there are some some art forms that you don't appreciate not because it's it's not good, but is just that, you don't like so that that should be bad art, so, there's it's impossible to have good art all the time so for each individual that there will be something that they perceive as bad art because you can't like everything in the world and also I agree that


its not all art forms have to be studied properly to, for it to be good but, it is a fact that there are some people who don't study the the art forms properly and, it doesn't turn out that well so


what I'm trying to say is you can't have hundred percent good art just because your because art is something that you kind of appreciate, ya and also talking about, not uh studying the proper skill sets


I feel not, every art is has hard work behind it so some people some people's art forms are recognised and over hyped but the lack genuine hard work behind it some reason is can be nepotism where they get the platform without earning it


so, in my in my perspective that is bad art because I think a main driving force of art is the hard work that you put behind behind it and so acting is a form of art form and in many in acting industries in many countries


like bollywood, nepotism is a big is a big issue where, many uh actors, they received awards for their acting for good acting but it's actually because of nepotism where they are given a platform and fame just because


of uh, of being born in a powerful powerful family so I think that is bad art because it lacks, uh the genuine hard work behind it, and also uh to add on another reason why I would say that bad art exist is because some arts actually insult others such as religion sentiments race and so on


so I think when an art form, wants to insult people or wants to , uh promote violence or any negative issues, I think that should be considered bad art


yeah, yeah


I think you are looking at art, from the viewers perspective but, for me I'm placing my argument from the, uh, I'm talking more about the justice they do to the art which makes it good or bad, so I'm not I'm not really mainly focusing on the by product cause


yeah I agree that something that I find good someone else might find bad but when I when I'm talking about art I'm kind of speaking about the justice you do to it and if the art form is not done justice that is what I actually perceived as bad art


so for the nepotism part, I view it as bad art because I feel like, the fact that, I think you're driving force for art is hard work so the fact that, some of them get the platform without hard work and


some of them , they clearly lack like acting skills, but, they are able to get awards that actually put a label that what you just did was good art I think that is


I don't think that is okay and I would see that as bad art, and also for insulting others, uh, you made the same point of a beauty being in the in the eye of the beholder but, if if someone commits a crime like uh


like a a robbery you wouldn't say that, oh he had his, uh , reasons because his is poor or something if it's a crime I think it's a crime so if someone put something, out there to hurt others


, I think that should be labelled as bad because he had bad intentions and it's also kind of insulting, he his art form, so ya so when I look at the point of not doing the art form justice that's where I draw the line between good art and bad art


yeah


okay so I was speaking about a skill set right so, uh, like certain classical dancer so, I'm tamil so there's a dance form that I know which is bharatanatyam you can't say that, I feel like if a person doesn't learned it properly learn


each step properly I would definitely, say it is bad art no matter how well the, the final product looks because I think for such, , traditional of course all art forms but especially for such traditional dances that have such high historic value I think it's only


fair if, the person who wants to, , practice that art that art form studies it properly and the right way not either art should not just be seen as good because it's, it aesthetically pleasing but I think there should be uh a certain form of justice done where you actually learn the skills and the meanings


part two debate topic two, part two debate topic two


so speaking about mindset as you said personally I feel that , , art is not seen as a priority in singapore because I think we are still very competitive, and so I feel we often singaporeans often known as for being very rushing


and yeah so I don't think, we have the time to properly appreciate art, , watching a movie or a dance just for entertainment is different but, appreciating it I don't think we have reached the point of appreciation yet


and also, I think we're still a very conservative society, so I don't think singaporeans are able to, be open to many forms of arts and to properly appreciate it so we tend to find


ah certain art forms very, , maybe very alien or some might find it very offensive while, the rest of the country's might find it normal, so yeah there are certain forms of art forms where


for for example songs that have vulgarities and stuff, I think americans and, more western country are more open to such kind of art forms but singaporeans are very picky with the kind of art they appreciate


they kind of tend to like arts, that are very, I don't maybe P like PG thirteen I don't know how to phrase it but, ya something that, it's more towards the conservative side, and also personally I feel that


are opposing to your point where the younger generation, is , are able to appreciate art more I think the opposite is what is happening because I don't think many parents, encourage their children to actually appreciate art


they because they don't want, they they fear that they might go in the, in the path of art in the future because art is often seen as, something that is, not not a very bright future in singapore so that's why you will see parents actually limiting


children from , you know participating in many art forms or even sometime going out to watch, art forms, they rather focus that time on studying and when I see studying it's not the


subject music or, art, in school but maths english mother tongue they are often more focused on that because it's it's uh registered taught in many singaporeans that, that is what will feed you in the future


and that's also why personally I feel, I feel if singaporeans appreciate art the local industry must have, must have delivered good , popular products because


many of our local artists are actually not even recognized, if you see for example in youtube where they put their art out there, they don't get much views, you can't even, name a few like I mean not you can't even but


, they are just not prominent they they don't really go beyond the singapore, geographical boundary they often are just the name of that, artists are usually just kept here is because singaporeans are not giving them the proper


fewer which is actually appreciation and support so there used to be a band called gentle bones , I mean and they are still there but gentle bones and sam willows they only had uh, short period of popularity and now I don't really see much people saying their names so this just shows that singaporeans don't really


appreciate cause I for me appreciate means, supporting and I don't think they're doing that, yeah


okay but because the topic is singaporean so I think I naturally just see, the majority because of course you can't say hundred percent of singaporeans appreciate or don't appreciate you can't say that so when when I say singaporeans see the majority and the majority mindset


and that's why I actually said that, , ya singaporeans don't really appreciate art so there are there are people who study music and stuff but, not not many are able to establish their name as an artist in singapore and that is really because singaporeans don't appreciate art and for appreciate


I think when when we talking about art I think the the word has a different meaning because when you're talking about uh appreciate a food or person you can just say oh I liked that person I like that food but for art I think appreciation uh consists of


support, because if you just like something like a art form like a movie or anything, it's just be maybe it's because you just see it as a stress buster, and as a form of entertainment but I think for you to go out and appreciate it


I think there needs to be a form of support, and, so you need to actually take a extra effort, to support that art, artists or art form and that's why I say singaporeans don't do that because they're too busy with their competitive lifestyle


so they don't go out and show the appreciation, they don't buy tickets for local bands, they don't yeah they don't, ya put the extra effort to actually


show appreciation, and, and ya so seeing in the majority point of view I shooting, we are conservative yeah there are people who


who like vulgarities and no different kinds of stuff so majority wise I would say that, they they don't, appreciate they only uh appreciate certain forms of art, they're not open to all forms I think being open means


if I produced a vulgar art form if there's going be a big backlash, then it means that singaporeans don't appreciate, that form of art you can't say oh but they are two people or five people appreciating it if there's a major majority backlash out say that singaporeans don't appreciate it


part three debate topic three


I think art is a necessity because I don't think you can do without it , I think, it's a necessity necessity because, it is good for mental health and in a stressful competitive society like singapore


I think we need to, consume art so yeah maybe as you said, many don't see the arts as an important industry so they don't, support, artist so that's because of the singaporean mindset


but, we that's why we don't and that's why we don't support local industry but actually, we do support the, the global industry so we support the western, western forms of arts and so on so I think when we talk about


arts we also can talk about consuming arts, and I think consuming arts is a necessity because it's good for mental health, and it is also a stress buster, I don't think, many singaporeans go a go a day without consuming


the arts so in, like whenever you go to work right yeah we don't the singaporean arts scene is not, really supported but whenever you go to work, the only side in the MRT is people watching videos hearing music so it shows that


it is part of their life, and they are consuming it because it's it's necessary to them, if not I think, life would get very stressful and it's not good for mental health if they're just going to be focused on work and music


and also talking about the COVID nineteen, period, can you just imagine uh, being in quarantine without the arts, and, I think at it's these kind of situations that prove that art is necessary and not a luxury item because


, it actually kept a lot of people company during quarantine and I don't think, it would have quarantine would have been mentally, would have been it would have been mentally , damaging if there was a quarantine without


arts, where you know you don't consume music videos, and, and so on art sand also most of this art forms are actually free into this age I mean to this, we're in a youtube you can, if you are able to access


a lot of forms of arts and, you know everything is live stream nowadays, so I think it it's free so it's not uh a luxury item and also, in a society like singapore especially I think art is necessary because it actually helps to


helps with your mental health and their stress levels, yeah


(ppc) when I when I said mental health I I didn't really say singaporean, used arts to solve mental health issues I say the arts, help to maintain, the


the mental health of, singaporeans so, because ya you said that certain countries don't get the luxury of arts in their you know in their countries and it's I feel it's comparative so certain because


that country has uh certain kind of lifestyle certain kind of issues so maybe they might not need the arts uh breeder the part or different things would have would help to maintain their mental health but in countries societies like singapore


I think uh, the arts is necessary to maintain their mental health not to solve it I'm saying to maintain a healthy mind, which you know it's the stress levels are not too acceding and I don't think uh


, a walk in the park and taking a breather, suits the singaporean society because as I said it's very fast moving it's a fast paced country so we need uh an instant time saving solution to to actually relax and let our stress go and I think the art


had has proved to be the, a working solution, for most most of them, yeah so I'm not saying to solve it but actually to just maintain, maintain a stress free uh mind so you use the skincare example and I'll use the education example so


if, without education if you don't have education you can actually still survive, just that life will be, a struggle so would you would you say that education is not a necessity I think it is a necessity but it's a necessity that you can do without


but life will be a struggle after that and that's why we actually view, education as a necessity same thing without consuming the arts you can do without it but life will be a struggle especially in countries like singapore


so I think the best solution, for, for Ashely's, lowering stress levels and maintaining a, a healthy mindset mental health is actually, the arts and the consumption of arts and that's why I think it's a necessity


and ya that's


debate topic one


I but I I think that art should be available to everyone but without any, restrictions because everyone has the right to to access uh whatever they are you know able to and I think like in the example of like pornography


for example it the problem lies not with the restriction of the, art itself but uh with the I I feel education maybe like instead of restricting you should educate the general public that like especially children that like pornography is not


uh, not something you should like like you should just educate them on the proper, you know thing


and I I feel like everyone and you know art art can also be used to protest injustice or like raise awareness so


ya ya


uh ya I, err ya so I feel that, like not like art not just belong like like is not just pornography but there are other parts of art as well


ya like music painting I feel like everyone should know like the different ends of each spectrum, ya like they should be allowed the freedom


to express themselves, like, with we're not just talking about the public here we we are talking about the artists I don't think like there should be any restriction to them as well


ya I think that's where like uh if you are talking about stuff like that then I think that's where uh counselling or like therapy comes in could not right just because


want or like a few like like some people are like like let's say like addicted or something you know addicted to it doesn't mean [orh] everyone are, unable to control themselves so I think you shouldn't just restrict it based on


like a small number of people or like a small group, oh


mine also I just stop, like like the screen was black then like after jean said then I realised


ya I tried do thirty minutes , ya


like, after jean said then I check then I found, alright uh ten minutes thirty five seconds


ya still running, uh


wait, wait, on submit, ya


I thought must we really use up nine minutes


, uh , uh oh I think I uh, uh I said my uh, is it therapy ya


to think like in this case of defendant is on


the the law was already in place so it's not it's not like uh, it's not like a case of restriction because they're like, but I feel like it's just not that kills me


like it's not a really restricting the person any more it's it's simply that it's illegal to do so, like the vandalised public property case


not no


I also


I see


(mmhmm) I see it


I think like in terms of movies like you know you said something like


about fetish image I think if you look at it with a open mind it's almost like a a piece of a work of art usually like it open mind cause, just because you watched the movie doesn't mean you are going to, like like


mimic whatever they do like follow their actions you are just going in to enjoy a piece of of work and I think like everyone should have the, freedom and like the right to you know enjoy whatever they can


part two debate topic two


okay so I believe that right reading books is by far the most wondrous of all pastime because I think no one no one can, refute the fact that reading has a lot of benefits like it really helps in improving your language skills


and it also allows you to explore using your imagination I think there was this quote by a writer that said you know a reader experience like thousands of lives, from the books he read but a non-reader only experiences one and I think in this


digitally in this world where everything is based on our mobile devices everything digital reading books can allow you to escape a little bit from your life


and, you know it's a good pastime to have


(ugh) uh you might have you mentioned about books not able to invoke emotions I think like as with any other


art forms such as movies and uh dramas and plays, you know it's not like, I have definitely seen people who have shed tears while while reading and words when they read but actually


uh a lot of people are very drawn to the different characters or they really relate and there are many different types of books actually books have different genres as well like you mentioned movies right uh you can watch a movie but you are basically just watching the director's


take or like a perspective of it while like, on the other hand if you you know you are reading a book you are able to actually imagine you are able to experience it first hand but


ya and also you know if you read I've said is he , and why I say like reading books is the most wondrous of pastime is because it's not only enjoyable but actually has a lot of benefits as well like how're what are the other benefits all of us see watching movies ya you I guess you can


you can say that oh you know there are there are people who watch , korean dramas or like chinese chinese movies and they actually improve their language skills, but


ultimately I I think that you know while if you read it comes to you more naturally you have to you'd you have to uh get the basics right first you have to get the grammar and vocabulary right


and, ya that's why reading or past


uh okay so I just now you mentioned the fact that I think I didn't clarify myself because, just now you mentioned that you know seeing like a movie, is I mean reading a book is simply just seeing it from the the author's point of view what I mean is like okay so you know when you read a book you will