Shigenari FURUTA, Masakazu KOBORI, and Sadamasa KATAGIRI did not hold tea parties using daisu for the shogun, and Enshu had never held tea ceremony using daisu throughout his life ("Summary of Records of the Tea Ceremony by Enshu KOBORI").
たしかに古田重然・小堀政一・片桐貞昌はいずれも将軍献茶に台子を用いていないし、遠州は生涯通して一度も台子を用いた茶会を行っていない（『小堀遠州茶会記集成』）。