There are some groups including Mukawa shu (a group of samurai in Kai Province) that existed within Kai Province, and it is hard to determine whether those groups were Shingen's relatives or fudai (a daimyo in hereditary vassal to the Tokugawa family) and whether they belonged to the Takeda clan or whether they had a relationship that bordered on being an alliance with the Takeda clan.
武川衆のように甲斐国内に存在した集団でありながら、親族とも譜代とも判別し難いのみならず、武田氏に服属していたのか同盟関係に近かったのかの判断が困難なグループがある。