At the time of the third Yoshimitsu ASHIKAGA and the fourth Yoshimochi ASHIKAGA, there was a conference system centered around the Shukuro (chief vassal), and the position of Kanrei was lowered; and the Shiba family first declined, not least because of financial burdens.
3代足利義満、4代将軍足利義持時代には宿老を中心とする合議制となり管領職の地位が低下し、経済的負担もあったことからまず斯波家が衰退する。