In 1862, he visited Shozan SAKUMA at Matsushiro with Gensui KUSAKA and Tamaki SHISHIDO, who were both of outstanding ability from Choshu clan, where they discussed national defense and political reform, which heightened their motivation for political activity.
文久2年（1862年）、長州の俊英久坂玄瑞・宍戸たまきとともに、松代に佐久間象山を訪ね、国防・政治改革について議論し、大いに意識を高める。