At around the age of 30, he became Tamemura REIZEI's pupil and then he also studied under Saneoka MUSHANOKOJI, however as he found his own Kagaku (study of waka poems) and advocated 'plain form of waka' (songs of ordinaries of life), he was expelled by Tamemura.
30歳頃、冷泉為村に入門、武者小路実岳にも学ぶが、独自の歌学に目覚め「ただごと歌」を主張したことから、為村から破門された。