In a general theory, it is said that he crossed the sea to south Song in 1223 with Dogen, came back to his own country after five years, wandered around the whole country, discovered the soil that was appropriate for earthenware in Seto of Owari Province and opened the kiln.
一般的な説では、貞応2年（1223年）に道元とともに南宋に渡り、5年後に帰国の後、全国を放浪した後に尾張国の瀬戸で陶器に適した土を見つけて窯を開いたとされている。