However, as Japan faced the power difference from the foreign fleets during the Anglo-Satsuma War and Shimonoseki War, criticisms to the simple Joi ron arose and was replaced with Dai joi ron started by Takamasa OKUNI, a scholar of Japanese classical literature in the Tsuwano Domain; Takamasa claimed that unification of the whole nation should be the first priority and should gain power that the country can confront other nations equally even by aiming fukoku kyohei (fortifying the country, strengthening the military) through trades with foreign countries; The Choshu Domain and Satsuma Domain, the major drive of the joi movement, accepted this view and started directing themselves for the opening of the country to the world.
しかし薩英戦争や下関戦争において外国艦隊との力の差に直面したことにより、単純な攘夷論に対する批判が生じて、津和野藩の国学者大国隆正らによって唱えられた国内統一を優先して、外国との交易によって富国強兵を図ってでも、諸外国と対等に対峙する力をつけるべきだとする「大攘夷」論が登場した事によって、これを受け入れた攘夷運動の主力であった長州藩・薩摩藩の主張も事実上開国へと転向していくのである。