But their first confirmed appearance in written records is after the time of FUJIWARA no Kaneie and the first transfer of Shuki-daiban ('Shuki watari no gi' [Ceremony for the transfer of Shuki]) to be held on the occasion of the change of Toshi choja at Higashi Sanjo-dono Palace did not take place until the time of FUJIWARA no Morozane.
ただし、記録上実際に確認できるのは藤原兼家以後のこととされ、朱器台盤の授受（「朱器渡りの儀」）が藤氏長者交替の際に東三条殿において行われたのは藤原師実以後とされている。