Our guest for this podcast is Ryan Carson, founder of Treehouse, a online teaching resource. Users can subscribe to Treehouse for $25 a month and watch lessons from great teachers. The road to success for Ryan was involved a lot of hard lessons, some that he is still learning from. In this podcast, Ryan and Scott discuss Ryan’s experience from his beginnings as an entrepreneur to his current successes with Treehouse.
The Business Design Podcast helps entrepreneurs design and build businesses that succeed on their own even if you take a 6 month vacation. Hosted by Ian Labardee, John Hwang and Scott Andersen, they share their successes and pitfalls and equip you to make daily progress in your business.
Welcome to the business design podcast. A podcast that help entrepreneurs design and build businesses that succeed on their own even if you take a six months vacation. We’re your hosts Ian, John and Scott and we’re here to share the successes and pitfalls of many entrepreneurs like you and equip you to make daily progress in your business.
Scott: We’re joined today with Ryan Carson. He is from Treehouse and we’ve been using Treehouse app for training actually for the past year or so to train our ruby on rails developers to get them up to speed. So it’s really cool to have the opportunity to actually talk to the man who is behind all of this. So welcome to the show Ryan.
Ryan: Thanks guys. It’s an honor to be here. Appreciate it.
Scott: So your current startup is Treehouse and its doing extremely well but you actually made a little bit of a name for yourself before you started the company. Could you give our listeners just a little bit of a recap just of how you got to the point of where you are and some of the other companies that you built and sold along the way to getting here.
Ryan: Yeah, sure. I am 36 so old enough to have started and failed a couple of companies now. So my Treehouse is technically my fourth company. And my first one – I was a web-developer – so my first company was just me building a product. And that one actually failed and I learned a lot of lessons about pricing and sales. In that company I priced the product way too high and had to go out and try to sell it and I wasn’t prepared for that. So that was a fun lesson to learn. And then the second business was actually a business where we do conferences and workshops. The goal there was to train people and say hey, if you want to be a web designer, web developer you can come to this conference and learn and you can also meet other people and get inspired and connected. That business was a lot of fun. We eventually did events around the world and met amazing speakers Mark Zuckerberg and Evan Williams from Twitter and Kevin Rose and all these kinds of stuff but I really wanted to reach more people at a more affordable price. I wanted to really make an impact in the world and did something I really thought mattered and I really loved the idea of teaching people and giving them something that allowed them to change their life but we just wanted to do it at a more affordable price. So we thought hey, why don’t we hire some teachers and film it and then just charge people 25 bucks a month to watch the videos online. That was the beginning of Treehouse . That was in 2010, and thankfully we’ve grown. We’re up to 70 people now and have over 55,000 students around the world. So it’s been a fun run.
Scott: That’s great. How do you feel like your experiences with those other businesses prepared you for Treehouse? Do you feel like that was good practice I’d say or just some of the things you’ve learned along the way?
Ryan: Definitely. Everything I do I look back and think I didn’t know very much before, and then I get to the next day, I didn’t know very much before, and then I have a feeling I am going to die. The day before I die I will be like, I didn’t know very much yesterday and I think that will continue. And the biggest thing I’ve learnt though is that is nobody knows what they are doing and nobody started something big and knew how they were going to get there. I often was intimidated in the beginning by meeting entrepreneurs like Mark Zuckerberg, or Steve Jobs, or Evan Williams, or whoever. And then I started to meet a couple of those people and then I just realized they really don’t know what’s the right answer and they really don’t know they were going to succeed. It kind of levels the playing field. I realized anything is possible. I’ve just got to go start trying to figure it out and then maybe I will be one of those folks that succeed. So that’s been the biggest thing that I have learned.
Scott: I think that’s a really important point. I think it’s really easy to look at people who are successful and say, “they must have all it together, they knew what to do, I couldn’t do that.” But I don’t think that is true. It’s amazing even for myself to see how much I have learned over the years. I made a lot of mistakes at the beginning but we’re still around.
Ryan: One of the things that I say to my son – because I have a three-year-old and a five-year-old – I say a lot, “it’s OK to make mistakes.” And you can see Even this morning – we joking about this before we started this interview because today was a hard day at Treehouse. I sent out an email that I regret sending out and basically I had to backpedal and apologize and really try to tell everybody that we were sorry and I was sitting at the breakfast table sweating and feeling like I was going to throw up and I said to my son, daddy made a mistake today and it’s OK to make mistakes because I don’t want him to grow up thinking you’ve got to have it figured it out, it’s got to be perfect.
Scott: And if you don’t make mistakes I feel like you are probably not taking enough risks and I know because I found that out for myself. If you are trying to play it safe then you are not going to hit anything.
Ryan. No. but they still are not very fun though, are they?
Scott: No. sure isn’t. One of the things that you said just talking about meeting people through the conference business I’ve heard you say this on other podcasts too just the importance of getting out, meeting people, talking to people. Now, when you were running that conference business, you were doing that from the UK, right?
Ryan: Yeah. It’s currently in a small town called Baths.
Scott: Do you have any suggestions for people? Like we’re in Michigan for example, for someone who is not in a big tech hub where you have all these people around you all the time, Any suggestions for meeting people and for getting out there?
Ryan: Definitely. I think that going to conferences and having a beer or a tea or a coffee or a meal with someone has been the most powerful way that I have made connection and I think I leverage that even more by actually starting to run those events myself. So what I found happened is I was able to do a conference and invite one big-name speaker and as soon as I got that one big-name speaker, everybody else kind of flew in. and for me, the very first conference was we got a speaker named David Heinemeier Hansson the creator of Rail. And miraculously he said yeah and I was just some nobody saying could you come and speak at our event and we’re not going to charge much money this is really about uniting the community. And it was. That was the community event and as soon as he said yes, then it just connected to the him and then to his friends and kind of just to cascade the fact that it’s almost like a psychological trick. If you get on stage with someone that’s famous, people associate you with them and all of a sudden you have these doors open to you that just weren’t open before, people respond to your email that happened. So I always say to people what works from doing an event in a non-vertical without doing business in and becoming a connector. It’s been very effective for me and I didn’t know that’s going to work it was lucky to do that by mistake.
Scott: Now one thing that I have noticed about you, you’ve always been pro-bootstrapping, especially with your companies before Treehouse, were all bootstrapping. Even Treehouse, I believe, was bootstrapped at the beginning, is that right?
Ryan: So we just used capital from profit from our event business to fund it. So we were clearly bootstrapped, we got to profitability with zero outside investments and then I’d changed my tune. Basically I had Treehouse which actually had a different name back then. I showed it to a friend and his name is Kevin Rose and he did this site called Digg and he was becoming pretty wealthy as well and I showed it to him and he said, this is awesome and he said I want to put $50,000 in. This and I was like OK, that’s crazy. Alright, well, let me think about that and he said I will help you put together a group of inter-investors and I felt like we will be able to build a successful, profitable amazing business without picking up any money. But, we might be doing something that happened to be at the right moment in history to truly change the world at a very big scale. If we take this money we can probably get there faster so maybe we should do it and I think we decided, because it could be we’re lucky enough to be involved, it could be world changing and it was worth taking the investment and kind of learning that and understanding how to do it. And at that point as soon as we decided to do it was like getting on bucking bronco. It was just this kind of wild, intense ride and I am very glad we did it looking back because it pushed me really hard. It’s kind of like you’re playing basketball and all of a sudden a crowd is around you and they’re watching. You just have to perform better, be faster, there will be more pressure and thankfully that has really pushed me a lot harder as an entrepreneur and now we’ve raised around $60 million total and now we can move a lot faster and we can hire quicker and we worry less about cash flow that’s still very important and we want to build a profitable business but we were able to hire more people than cash flow allows right now because of that. So that’s been kind of a journey.
Scott: That makes a lot of sense. One of the other things that I have always thought about venture capitals is the connections that bring in the expertise of the people who are investing. Could you talk a little bit about value of having people who are very well connected advising your company and being part of the investor board?
Ryan: I have noticed that there is definitely different types of investors and there is good and bad, and there is connected and not connected and we were lucky to get our biggest investor is called social capital and its really one guy his name is Chamath Palihapitiya and he is a wonderful investor because he is extremely passionate about our doing, he is very connected and he is very aggressive and So he’s wonderful to have in a company because he really pushes you hard and actually contribute value. So he connects us to super important people all the time. He says he, I think you should talk to this person here’s an email instruction, go! Or hey, I have got this idea let’s make it happen. And then there is unfortunately some investors they just don’t work hard, they don’t take of you, they don’t put in the time and that usually happens when they don’t put in enough money to care. So the big thing I learned is every venture around you will typically give away 20% of the company. So really most venture capitalists want 20% of your company or more and if they don’t get that, they’re just not going to put in the time. So the mistake I made with getting a bunch of investors is we had one big one and then a bunch of small ones and basically the small ones except for one or two just add zero value. So you effectively given away part of your company for nothing. So that’s the lesson I learned.
Scott: I guess before you raised capital you hadn’t done that before. Where did you go to learn about that? Was it reading books, was it talking to people? How to really make sure you don’t get burnt
Ryan: I just read a book and it was an amazing book it was by Brad Feld it’s called how to be smarter than your venture capitalist and lawyer and it’s just so good. I learned everything I need to know then I did a ton of Googling around and stuff but that book was very valuable.
Scott: One thing that I am curious about as far as being bootstrapped before and then deciding to take money and building a company that way, do you think that I guess the discipline maybe of being bootstrapped has changed the way you built this company versus somebody who’s taken VC for the first time and trying to build something.
Ryan: Definitely. I just think it’s so much better to have a grounding and how to get to profitability before you do that so that’s been helpful and if anything its kind of frustrated investors that we are trying quite hard to be profitable. They often want you to push and get as big as possible as quick as possible which means bringing in a lot of cash because they invested money in you and want to see that capital put to use. It doesn’t do them any good if you just leave it in the bank. So I am very thankful that I know how to get a business to profitability and that’s our goal. In getting Treehouse to profitability before we raised money was really key in getting a good valuation. We were profitable, didn’t need the money and therefore is much easier to negotiate another first couple rounds of capital.
Ian: I think it’s a really cool story especially these days to hear about a company that was successfully bootstrapped and profitable before jumping into the – I really admire that.
Ryan: Thanks. That turned out to be a really key strategy for us and it means the truth of it is that I own personally a lot more of the company now because of that because I was much less looted in the earlier round which is when founders really get killed.
Scott: Have one other question for you just about the whole venture capital thing. So you have some kind of let’s say unconventional workplace practices four-day work weeks, no mangers things like that, what do your investors think of those types of things? Have you got any pushed back from them on that and how do you address that?
Ryan: Thankfully zero push back and it’s that the reason that we talked about before which is we were a profitable successful company before we raised money and thankfully we’ve continued to grow even after we took the money. So what I have learned is investors don’t care if you wear a banana suit to work. As long as you’re growing it doesn’t matter so I think that the takeaway. I think clearly as far as growth slows down, they’ll start asking some pretty tough question but thankfully and in part think because of our unconventional practices, we are growing very fast. These folks are all smart. They know that in most companies middle management kills all the morale that slows everything down and if they could get rid of it they would. So we are just one of the few companies that was naïve or brave one of the two not enough to actually do it.
Ian: You talked a little bit about being involved in pitching and selling and you’ve done this a lot ever since [inaudible] [00:17:01] days. I was actually a big [inaudible] [00:17:04] fan. Would you say that selling your own ideas for products and businesses in your entrepreneurial pursuits, talk a little about selling those things and has that always come natural to you or is it something that you’ve sort of worked out developed all the time.
Ryan: I am very bad at traditional sales and the reason why is because I hate selling people. I have kind of a thin skin when it comes to that and so normal basic sales when you go out and you get rejected 95% of the time I find it really hard personally. But thankfully, I am really enjoying marketing, hey, how do I speak to someone in a way that’s interesting to them, that helps them, that makes them want to act and I find it fascinating. So marketing is always one of those things that thankfully I am actually am interested in what makes other people tick, how do I help them, how do I please them which means marketing especially in today’s age of social media much easier. A book that I read recently I thought was brilliant and it really captures the way I look at marketing was Gary Vaynerchuk’s Jab Jab Jab Right Hook and I would highly recommend it just packet with really good case studies about how to actually do marketing today in a world of social media. And I thought I knew a lot and then I read that book and I was like I didn’t know much than I thought I did. For instance, we pay to boost posts on Facebook. That’s one of our ways we spend money and we changed our strategy based off of what we learned in that book and we saw like a 10x improvement on our effectiveness on those ads, it was crazy.
Ian: One of something that’s specific to web entrepreneurs in terms of a challenge just because if you’re around and you’re investing all the time it sometimes maybe easy to forget that the act of selling is painful sometimes. Do you think it’s something that is especially difficult for web entrepreneurs?
Ryan: Yeah, totally because you are disconnected from real people physical interaction. And that was one of the reasons why today when I screwed up on email and upset a bunch of people was something a learning experience for me because you just have to interact on a very personal level email-to-email, one-to-one and instead of like hey, his website and you never see people coming to it and rejecting it and I think you’re right. There’s detachment from reality and one of the things that has worked well for me as a CEO is really quote and quote getting out of the building and interacting as closely as I can with our students. Whenever I can I email them, I tweet with them, I talk to them, I meet them just to bring it back to reality like hey, these are and they all have things going on in their life and that’s always been both rewarding and valuable. It’s really amazing to hear real stories from people lives that we’re touching and it definitely keeps me going.
Scott: I’d like to talk a little bit more about marketing actually. We do a lot of Google Adwords we’ve been doing that since the beginning of our company and I know I have seen you do Adwords, you do YouTube advertising, you mentioned Facebook. What are some of I guess the channels that you’re finding work the best for your type of business?
Ryan: We are finding, YouTube is really great just because it’s kind of native to what we are doing we’re teaching and we’re about to do a bunch of new YouTube ads so that’s always been good. We haven’t found any kind of magic vault. I think that’s one of the things that we’re learning actually about marketing as there is no kind of secret. It basically for us has been experiment after experiment after experiment and it never ends and as soon as we find a marketing channel that appears to be scalable, it scales then it declines. So you got to go and find new ones you got to change and adapt and its exciting but also kind of it wears you down. We’re trying to spend as much money as we can on marketing and what we find is actually sometimes it’s hard to spend enough money because you’re trying to find the channel that scales and Adwords supposedly should be the perfect channel for that because its infinitely scalable almost but the trick is how do you get a CPA that is profitable and you’re paying essentially $1000 for a conversion and you’re only getting $500 of time value obvious it’s not going to work. So beyond Gary Vaynerchuk’s new book and what he says is just appears to be really no right answer to any of that unfortunately.
Scott: Now I feel like it’s very different for different businesses to like we’ve been very successful with Adwords for our business but then I’ve actually tried doing some Adwords marketing for other businesses it doesn’t work the same. You feel like you must just be missing something. This always works but that’s something you just learn. One of the things that I know we’ve struggled with too is just attribution especially as we are doing so many different types of advertising. Can you talk a little bit about I guess what you’ve may be learned or thing you’ve struggled with?
Ryan: That’s absolutely the hard part for us. Now we’re spending on YouTube, Adwords, display, social and our students are touching all of those. So how do we do attribution? I think the way we’re going to do it is basically a blended model. So we’ll 20% of attribution to the first click, 100% the last click and then 60% to the all the clicks in-between because for a while we thought YouTube is like a black hole of money that we were pouring money into and apparently it was very expensive just to get a conversion and then we turned it off and then all of a sudden we saw a big hit in our sign ups. I think we were like we’re not doing attribution correctly. So the new blended model should give us at least kind of better average view of what’s working or not.
Scott: So I had more questions too just about video. Did you have an experience doing video production before this or is that something that was brand new for you when you started this company?
Ryan: I had zero experience. It’s almost funny how little I knew about it. So it’s basically [inaudible][00:24:33] learnt. We hired good folks to start taking care of that and now we’re effectively professional production TV environment. It’s pretty insane. I am walking through our studio right now and it’s like being on a movie set crazy. So again that’s kind of a great example of nobody starts and knows what they are doing. So I think it can be figured out.
Scott: Any tips for someone else who’s I guess doing video and trying to figure out how to make that work as far as hosting, as far as production, as far as things that I guess even the content what engages people, what gets people coming back.
Ryan: I would say like as far as hosting most hosts can just use YouTube initially. I don’t know if technically you’re supposed to do that and YouTube doesn’t seem to mind similar competitors like Udacity are on YouTube and they’re really a pro-profit company. So you couldn’t just not worry about your hosting on social at all initially. The second thing is just a couple of good quality light and a little bit of money spent on a set will really go a long way. And then thirdly, probably just hiring a freelance audio-visual person to help you with the first kind of bit, it’s pretty cheap. So that’s kind of the basic stuff. We’re basically learning that, the shorter the videos the more engaged people are because their attention spans are short so that’s been one thing we’ve learnt.
Scott: And as far as the actors’ people who are teaching the content, now, I know several of them are on staff. Do you also hire people to just come in and teach a course and do some type of a royalty structure with them or is it strictly in-house people?
Ryan: We have both in-house and guest teachers and we just pay our guest teachers its straight up like a project and that seems to work pretty well for us because we definitely need in-house teachers. We want a real core set of teachers who we can rely on that, that set their core curriculum but we also want to scale quickly that’s why we’re adding more guest teachers.
Scott: Makes sense. And then I had a question to just about as far as the revenue model for Treehouse its subscription so you’re really counting on people signing up and then sticking with it for a while and I’m wondering I can definitely see that for businesses, how does that actually end up playing out for individuals? Do people tend to stick with it or do they learn a skill and then cancel their subscription in three, four, five months?
Ryan: It really varies. What we’re seeing really obvious things like emailing our students really helped keep them engaged and it seems kind of obvious but we weren’t really doing that for a long time because we kind of thought, people don’t want to be bothered. The truth is people like to hear from you if they want to be engaged. So that was a big key for us. And as far as our life time value for the students goes, we want to get to the point where actually you’re a lifetime learner with Treehouse, you pause occasionally and then you come back and you keep learning because as you that’s kind of nature of what we’re teaching, you always have to stay up-to-date. So that’s our hope.
Scott: It just seems like you continually are adding new content now. Just got some emails about WordPress training and I mean you are going into a lot of different areas where hopefully it becomes something that people just sign up for and then stick with it.
Ryan: Totally and the truth is we wish we could release like a course a day. Really we’re realizing a course a week which we’re still happy with but yeah there is so much (Crosstalk)
Ian: That’s impressive.
Ryan: Thanks. That’s shocking and we’re getting there. We would like to do even more but that’s kind of where we are at.
Scott: I am kind of curious with being a technology company that’s teaching other people how to program and how to use technology, what’s Treehouse actually built on?
Ryan: It’s primarily the ruby on rails spec. we have some kind of crazy stuff under the hood occasionally I like to co-challenge and in a super advanced and technical. I don’t even pretend to understand how it works but we decided to go with actually basically running our own hardware. We used to be on Amazon and we actually moved off Amazon because it was actually starting to get kind of slow and what we found with that is you actually have to pay a lot of money in Amazon to get the same kind of performance you’d see on your own dedicated hardware. So we’re up to something like 23 servers now and we’re at a company called Blue box for hosting so the basic structure.
Scott: I’d like to talk a little bit we’d mentioned it before with the four-day work week. I think Ian had some more questions about that actually that he wanted to dig into.
Ian: Its funny because there are some similarities in the kinds of businesses that we’ve started kind of why we’ve gotten into entrepreneurship and when I say we I mean Scott, John and I and it’s kind of been a lifestyle thing for us. We’ve have also obviously done it. You’ve chosen to do it somewhere other than sort of the common place in a silicon valley to do it because we really try a lot of balance and that sort of thing and obviously you guys moving to the four-day work week, your sending them messages loud and clear and I’ve heard you talk a little bit about that in terms of balance and stuff. And we have families, we have wives and kids all three of us as well. So I just was curious, do you have suggestions or things you learned specifically about balancing and being an entrepreneur and bootstrapping outside of the tech industry and trying to be balanced when it comes to your own life.
Ryan: A lot of these started when I had kids. So I really realized they were going to grow up real fast. So the primary way that I look at work class balance now is the stage where my kids want to hug me and kiss me and talk to me it’s going to end at some point so I really just protective of that. I think the trigger point that I’ve always fallen back to is that no matter how much I work, it will never stop and I think I realized, hey, I could work Fridays and Saturdays’ and Sundays and the work will never go away in fact I will just create more work. So what do I really want to happen with my life and I think I decided you could have a successful company and be efficient and just work a little bit less and so far that experiment has proven to be true. Now we’re seeing that work at Treehouse and it’s hard to know, it’s hard to measure that. We don’t really know the actually effect of it but it appears to be that everyone is a lot happier.
Ian: That’s really big I think it resonates for us because that’s something that we’re learning too. I guess sort of in that it’s more a vein balance and privatization. I’ve heard you talk a little bit about before in other sort of interviews about you’re doing things that matter and spending your time on things that make a difference and clearly that’s a big reason why you got into teaching and helping people be lifetime learners. Just curious, are there other things that you would like to do outside of work sort of in the vein of changing the world and doing other things that matter Things that you sort of aspire to do beyond Treehouse and those things?
Ryan: Yeah. Treehouse is definitely going to be taking up kind of all my attention for a long time so it hurts me to even think about that. But I have had just kind of fun daydreams about eventually trying to fund and create a free hospital. I saw a friend of ours basically go bankrupt because she had to go to an emergency room for seven days and it just ruined her financially and I thought this shouldn’t be happening and I lived in the UK for 12 years they have free healthcare there and it works. It’s amazing and I thought I bet it’s possible somehow to create a hospital where you could go for free and that it wouldn’t be for wealthy people, it wouldn’t be for the poorest of poor who are taken care by the government, it would be for this kind of strange milligram where people are getting screwed. They don’t quite fit in to healthcare coverage. So that’s something if I could I would love to try to figure it out but that’s going to be 20 years from now.
Ian: That is such a cool idea.
Ryan: Yeah. Some day.
Ian: You should run for office.
Ryan: Yeah. No maybe OK.
Ian: That’s great. Thank you for sharing. It’s good to hear those things too.
Ryan: No problem.
Scott: Were there any other big takeaways that you feel like things that have influenced you from living in the UK just cultural things that maybe you hadn’t experienced in the US things you hadn’t really thought about you feel like they have shaped kind of the way that you are now and the way you build stuff?
Ryan: The biggest thing that living outside it did to me is teach me that America is not the center of the universe. I thought I was worldly and open-minded but I just wasn’t because it’s impossible to really understand until you actually live somewhere else. I realized a lot of people don’t like America, they don’t like Americans and I said oh wow, OK so no everybody wants what we have and learning to kind of respect other cultures and religions and other points of view was pretty impactful to get personal. I was raised in a strong Christian environment and that was a very big part of my life until I was probably 25 and moving abroad changed my point of view fundamentally on all that and I don’t think it’s good or bad it’s just is. And now I wouldn’t call myself a Christian and this is weird to me but that’s kind of moving abroad did to me. So [inaudible][00:35:37] I feel like I am [inaudible][00:35:41] kind of a happier place now not that I was sad before but I just feel more like I am able to kind of feel like I am cohesive and it makes sense to me now. But at the same time the UK is kind of a tough place. It’s a little more cynical. I found it almost kind of antichristian in a way. That was hard coming from that environment. And then there are some of the fun things like I got to go to Paris and Amsterdam and Rome and Italy it’s amazing to be able to experience all of that which is just so hard to do when you live in America it’s so far away. But having said that, I am thankfully back in the US. There are so many things about America that are wonderful and I think of the optimism of America that I missed and I really love that.
Scott: I think one thing that is interesting to me we have one of our business partners lives in the UK and runs that side of our company and one of the things that he says so frequently is just that Americans seem to have a lot more of an entrepreneurial spirit that he really doesn’t at least in the UK that he really didn’t feel like that’s something that’s valuable that there’s a lot of entitlement. I don’t know if you’ve experienced the same thing but that’s something that seemed overwhelming to him.
Ryan: Its kind of a bummer that People are just left optimistic and it was kind of frustrating they kind of have the old class system over there and people kind of feel like they shouldn’t reach outside their class which is crazy to me but it’s a pretty and grim thing.
Scott: Well, it looks like we’re running out of time here but there’s still so many other things that we could talk about.
Ryan: Thanks for your time you guys.
Scott: Thanks for your time. This was wonderful Ryan.
Ryan: If any of you are listeners out there or having questions for me or want me to share any experience I will be happy to do that. You can just email me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Scott: Wonderful. And then people can follow you on Twitter too is it ryancarson, is that right?
Ryan: Right. Just @ryancarson
Scott: ryancarson, perfect.
Ryan: Thanks guys. I think it’s awesome what you are doing sharing knowledge and getting it out there and I really appreciate you having me on the show.
Scott: We really appreciate Treehouse. It’s been great for our company and it’s a cool vision. I think you can change the world with it so best of luck.
Ryan: Thank you. Thanks Scott, I appreciate it.
Ian: Have a great night Ryan.
Scott: Thanks Ryan.
Ryan: Take care guys.
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