Sunday, June 25, 2017
Revisiting the Past at the Event Horizon of the Future
Andre Owens - Another loud mouth about to enter the matrix with Floyd Mayweather.
Kristopher Michael Mosby - This is what Conor and his fans wanted. Remember when Ricky Hatton shot off his mouth at Floyd?(look at the photographers).
Muhammad Rasheed - McGregor isn't his sparring partner, and boxing is exciting precisely because anything can happen in a fight. If the 'Tale of the Tape' was a 100% reliable indicator of who will win these things, then there wouldn't be betting odds on these events. Remember, Floyd is filthy rich and well pass his prime, while McGregor is a young & hungry kid. There is REAL danger here.
Don't get cocky.
William Satterwhite - I would agree with you if this were any other boxer other than Floyd- he is arguably the best ever at making sure the anything that can happen in a fight never happens to him.
Kristopher Michael Mosby - "When people ask me why I’ve released this footage now, it’s because it hurts me that there are guys like myself who have been devoted to this sport, risking our lives. And to see McGregor, who has zero knowledge of professional boxing, make it out like he could just get out of an octagon, step in the ring and beat up the best pound-for-pound fighter out there – to just make out like our lifestyle is so easy and that anybody could do it, and then for people to be saying he has a big chance of beating Floyd. I just thought, judge for yourself. Boxing is a completely different type of standup fighting to MMA, and 12 rounds is a hell of a long time. If you’ve never done it, you’re in for a rude awakening.” ~ Chris van Heerden, former IBO welterweight champion
Muhammad Rasheed - More than anything, I want Floyd to beat the crap out of McGregor the way he did Gatti, and end it with a devastating and humiliating knockout like he did Hatton. That would be an ideal outcome to me.
But realistically ANYTHING can happen. I don't want to see Anderson vs Weidman happen in there because of over-cockiness karma. van Heerden is correct technically speaking, but boxing is more than just technical. Surprises DO happen. The impossible happens all the time.
Andre Owens - Well, of course anything CAN happen. But is it probable that Floyd Mayweather, who is the best at avoiding punches, will get surprised? No.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's not probable, but no one knows the future. I just know that I'm nervous as shit. lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Let's just grab the 50-0 and stop coming out of fucking retirement!
Muhammad Rasheed - See the mob wouldn't let Marciano come out of retirement. That was the secret to his 49-0. They were more protective of it than he was.
That's how I feel about Floyd's "0."
Joseph L. Jefferson - This entire thing is a bit of a joke. McGregor needs to run his mouth to make the fight happen as his only real objective is to get paid. Floyd will make the fight happen and get paid royally as a boat load of people would love to see the big mouth black guy get put to the canvas by the big mouth white guy that oh by the way no one really seems to notice. At the end of the day, McGregor will get paid more than ever before and Floyd will cash in again. Maybe McGregor wins and then there will be a rematch. Then they all get paid again.
Muhammad Rasheed - It's not a joke, it's just a business deal. The cross-industry fans said they wanted to see it, and the players decided they wanted to give it to them. Supply & demand.
Muhammad Rasheed - The marketing/promotion aspect does come across as funny, but the people already said they wanted to see it, so neither really has to take the hype too far.
Joseph L. Jefferson - @Muhammad Rasheed... but does would any real "objective" observing believe that McGregor has a chance.
Muhammad Rasheed - The 'Tale of the Tape' says McGrogor doesn't have a chance at all, but the same measurement objectively said that Foreman would kill Ali in Zaire. So...
Muhammad Rasheed - Fights often don't come out the way we think they will. The 'Tale of the Tape' said that Michael Moore would retain his title over Foreman, too.
Muhammad Rasheed - The 'Tale of the Tape' didn't mention Tyson liked a side of Georgian ear with his fight meals.
Joseph L. Jefferson - @Muhammad Rasheed... Floyd is smarter than Moore. His style and defensive skill should keep him out of harms way. I really doubt that McGregor will force the issue. I don't see McGregor hitting any harder than Shane Mosely so I cannot see any real danger for Floyd.
Muhammad Rasheed - To me, the biggest danger is Floyd's age versus McGregor's age. That's where the true 'scary unknown' part lies with me.
Muhammad Rasheed - If they were both 20 somethings, or both 40 somethings, I could relax more.
Jason Villena - They (the people making money and everything Las Vegas) have learned from the mistakes and will not make this feud go more than 5 years like it did with Floyd and Manny; and maybe draw this into a 2 out of 3 feud over the next 2 years. After the lackluster prom dance fight of Manny and Floyd, the goal is to be the highest draw PPV/contest, ever. And who better to make it happen than the 2 biggest shit talkers in 2 different sports.
For maximum $$$, Floyd wins 1st meet, Connor wins 2nd meet (but with some "controversy" aka DQ or "devastating" hit to the nuts or KOs Floyd with elbow or submission move), Floyd wins the 3rd and final meet. Floyd can have the loss because he's "retired" but for sure everyone will make money while both Floyd and Connor have their physical abilities and that the hype is still there. Notice no one talks about a rematch with Floyd and Manny.
Muhammad Rasheed - The only reason it took so long for Mayweather vs Pacquiao to happen, is because Pacquiao's camp refused to believe that Floyd was the boss of his side of the deal. They treated him as "just a fighter" instead of the main principle they had to negotiate with. The fight was made when they finally wised up.
Jason Villena - Hmm. Well, it seemed like all the way from 5 years out to within a year of the finalized contract of the Floyd vs Manny fight, Manny's camp was making the concessions to make the fight happen and TMT did everything to drag their feet to delay the contest. Manny's camp got to the point of saying things like, "Whatever he wants. Let's just make the fight for the people." and Floyd still wanted more concessions. Even Floyd's friend, Stephen A. Smith on-air said, "Floyd is ducking Manny." But, it was smart on Floyd's part. Why fight someone in their prime, when you can fight it on your terms because you're the champ (and huge moneymaker for MGM and Las Vegas). After the Manny vs. Floyd fight they could have had a rematch for Mayweather's last fight to tie Marciano against a possibly healthy Manny (sans broken rotator cuff). But, Floyd and Vegas went with Beto (someone who lost his last 3 fights to fighters that lost to Floyd in previous contests) to end the career instead of a rematch against Manny. But, at that point Vegas was pretty much done with Manny as a money draw and washed their hands of him.
The point is: What's going to make maximum money for Vegas and all the people involved? UFC, Floyd, Connor and Vegas came up with this. And it may just make more $$$ than the Pacquiao vs Mayweather PPV because of hype and crossover.
Muhammad Rasheed - The "seems" was only an illusion, fueled by nonsense propaganda out of the Pacquiao camp. It wasn't real.
Jason Villena - Really? Look up "Floyd ducking Manny". And click on the link that has Stephen A. Smith. The same guy that is Floyd's friend and who backed him up (and was a pooh-pooher on Manny and his camp before that interview). And there are many links to go to but, Stephen A. Smith is my end all catch all.
But, there are also links where Mayweather himself gets asked specifically about facing Manny and he either ignores the question or just blows up at the person asking the question. I'm not talking about what came out of Manny or his camp. I'm specifically talking about Floyd and his reactions/words. And this is years before the fight contact got signed. But, you'll hear/remember the concessions Manny made during the Stephen A. Smith link.
Illusions...let's talk about Floyd's last fight before retiring to tie Marciano. Why didn't he want a rematch with Manny (sans broken rotator cuff)? Why go with Beto? A fighter who lost his last 3 fights to fighters that lost to Floyd. He might as well have fought Helen Keller to tie Marciano. Not really much suspense in that contest to prove who will win between Mayweather vs. Beto. But, hey, he tied the record. There's no disputing that fact.
But, I get it. Vegas wants to make a lot of guaranteed money. Hence, the unprecedented UFC/boxing crossover. And they had a favorite in Floyd. And now, who better to have a match-up than the old favorite son (Floyd) fighting with the new favorite son (Connor)? It will be interesting to see if this contest eclipses the Manny vs. Floyd contest, in regards to money being made.
Muhammad Rasheed - Yes, really. All that "ducking" talk was only ever nonsense. The people had no idea what was really going on behind the scenes (and didn't really care since biz negotiations aren't as exciting as the shit they preferred to make up), and the crap Pacquiao's promoters were saying was often discovered to be blatant lies designed to vilify Floyd and make their guy the good guy. lol I don't need to look that stuff up; l remember those annoying ass discussions happening in real time. I'm not particularly keen on reliving that era. All I care about is that when it finally DID go down, my fighter won.
The Berto fight was the last event scheduled on his 6-fight Showtime contract. It doesn't seem as diabolical and shady as you're trying to make it, considering Berto won the WBA interim welterweight title just six months before in his previous fight. But if you want to make it some kind of crazy conspiracy theory, then go ahead. Floyd didn't care about a rematch with Pacquiao because of the injured shoulder shenanigans, in which he tried to blame Floyd for his own poor performance. Floyd didn't feel his behavior was worthy of another high payday event and he snubbed him. I 100% agreed.
The fans said they want to see this 'Great White Hope' match to finally blemish Floyd's outstanding record, and the two combatants are willing to give it to them. Supply & demand... basic economics. They wouldn't do it if the dollars didn't make sense. It's just business. The strength of the celebrity alone will bring the people out, and get pay-per-view slots sold. That's all.
Jason Villena - Muhammad wrote: "The "seems" was only an illusion, fueled by nonsense propaganda out of the Pacquiao camp. It wasn't real."
And I pointed out to you a person who is not from Pacquiao's camp; who also believed Mayweather was the better fighter and was stating HIS opinion about Mayweather, despite having a personal friendship with him for years. I assure you Stephen A. Smith is a "real" respected journalist that was not part of the Pacquiao camp. But, I just wanted to show you that you stating that it was ALL nonsense propaganda from Pacquiao and company is simply just not true.
And I'm not making the fight with Berto sinister or shady. I'm just stating facts, like the Stephen A. Smith assessment clip. But, maybe it's because I believe in the transitive theory in algebra.
If a=b, and b=c, then a=c.
If Berto lost 3 fights (a=b)
And Mayweather beat those SAME 3 fighters in the past (b=c)
Berto will lose to Mayweather (a=c)
This "contest" was to get Mayweather to tie Marciano's record and a guaranteed win bet on Mayweather. I don't know of anyone betting on Berto, even when offered 100/1 odds. Because a Mayweather victory was a big win (guaranteed money) for Vegas and all involved including TMT, people who bet on Mayweather AND Mayweather gets to tie Marciano's record...so everyone wins, if you were the above mentioned. I guess I would have preferred another fighter that would have been a better challenger (at least not a fighter who lost to the same 3 fighters that the champion disposed of decisively in the past) to solidify Floyd's dominance, but then all the aforementioned could have potentially lost big time. And to come this far...that was not going to happen.
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it's business. On that, I think we can agree on. It's the 2 biggest shit talkers from 2 different sports that finally got the approval of Las Vegas to make money in this unprecedented crossover...just as long as Sin City gets its cut.
Muhammad Rasheed - lol Friendship or not, Stephen A. Smith also revealed his opinion wasn't worth the pixels it was recorded on. The "seems" never stopped being an illusion.
And yes, the sport of boxing is 99% business, 01% athleticism.
Berto won his previous two fights, which included his attaining the WBA interim welterweight title. That also made it business, because Floyd was required to fight who the accrediting bodies said he needed to fight in order to maintain the hold over his own titles. Everyone Floyd fought was of a lesser caliber than he was, so your point is moot. He had to fight somebody, so why NOT the WBA interim welterweight title holder? lol
Muhammad Rasheed - Actually, considering Berto had lost relatives during the Haitian earthquake, and the fight with Floyd provided the challenger with a career high $4 million payout, the champion may have given him that fight in order to help him personally.
Jason Villena - Ah. So, you admit that Smith was not of the Pacquiao camp AND Smith said that Floyd was ducking Manny. All the ducking propaganda didn't solely come from the Pacquiao camp.
And I'm curious, could you give me the source of where Smith "revealed his opinion wasn't worth the pixels it was recorded on."
Floyd had to fight somebody, yes. So why not a rematch with Pacquiao without the torn rotator cuff? I'm going out on a limb that the PPV money alone that would be taken in with a rematch against a healthy Pacquiao would have been a bigger draw because of the possibility of Mayweather being denied to tie Marciano's record.
And that's very benevolent for Floyd to give Berto a shot and the career high payout. However, Floyd could have given Berto $4 million dollars to help him and his family, have the rematch, beaten Manny and everyone would have made more money. Not to mention bragging rights that Floyd beat a healthy Manny and gave him the chance at a rematch, and Manny still lost.
As you stated, Boxing is 99% business. And TMT thought that going up against Berto was a better business decision than a rematch with Pacquiao. And probably a safer bet (for Vegas and TMT) to not have Floyd's goal to tie Marciano's record jeopardized. Even you stated that "Surprises do happen. The impossible happens all the time." And what a catastrophe it would have been for Floyd (and his goal to tie Marciano's record), TMT and Las Vegas, if his last fight was a defeat to a healthy Pacquiao.
But, it's a moot point. Floyd closed the chapter on Manny as soon as the decision was made public to make Berto his last fight in the attempt to tie Marciano's record.
Muhammad Rasheed - Jason Villena wrote: "All the ducking propaganda didn't solely come from the Pacquiao camp."
Any and everything that sounds like "Not ALL cops! Not ALL white people!" that pretends to be 'smart' or intellectual in anyway is instantly balled up and tossed into the trash. FYI. Hyperbole is a normal and accepted part of human discourse. You need to catch up.
Sure. Any and everything you saw/read in which Smith claimed that Floyd was "ducking" anybody. That was the sound of Smith's credibility flushing down the loo.
Because Pacquiao tore his ass behaving like a spoiled child with zero integrity at the end of that fight. Why would he deserve another big payout after that performance? No. He would have lost anyway since he proved he didn't have the tools to force Floyd to fight his way. It would have been a waste of time, hence the disappointment from the confused casual fandom.
Giving Andre Berto... the boxer... a chance to put on a good show in front of the world... as a boxer... was more valuable to the challenger than just handing him the $4 mil. Potentially it could have taken him further and enabled his star to rise.
Pacquiao was healthy in that fight. The shoulder injury was a lie. He just wanted to get doped up on that bs so he could power through those shots again. Psh.
Muhammad Rasheed - (i said i was not interested in reliving that old floyd vs pacman shit, didn't i? lol)
*putting that shit back on like a jacket*
Jason Villena - "Any and everything that sounds like "Not ALL cops! Not ALL white people!" that pretends to be 'smart' or intellectual in anyway is instantly balled up and tossed into the trash. FYI. Hyperbole is a normal and accepted part of human discourse. You need to catch up."
Woah. Woah. I'm just responding to the part you stated that it was propaganda crap from the Pacquiao camp. And I'm just stating there were other people outside of the Pacquiao camp that was saying the same thing. I just picked Smith because he also was a friend of Floyd's. But, there were quite a few people that were saying the same thing about ducking that are not as famous and not a personal friend of Mayweather. Please don't project.
"Sure. Any and everything you saw/read in which Smith claimed that Floyd was "ducking" anybody. That was the sound of Smith's credibility flushing down the loo."
Again, it's not just Smith. Roy Jones Jr had said it. There are regular people boxing fans that had also expressed that opinion.
"Because Pacquiao tore his ass behaving like a spoiled child with zero integrity at the end of that fight. Why would he deserve another big payout after that performance? No. He would have lost anyway since he roved he didn't have the tools to force Floyd to fight his way. It would have been a waste of time, hence the disappointment from the confused casual fandom."
And we'll never know because Floyd chose Andre over a rematch with Manny.
"Giving Andre Berto... the boxer... a chance to put on a good show in front of the world... as a boxer... was more valuable to the challenger than just handing him the $4 mil. Potentially it could have taken him further and enabled his star to rise."
Absolutely. If he beat Mayweather. Absolutely. But, the betting public confidence wasn't high in the fact that Andre lost his last 3 fights to the same 3 fighters that Floyd beat decisively...Yeah, not much suspense that Floyd was going to lose against Andre.
"Pacquiao was healthy in that fight. The shoulder injury was a lie. He just wanted to get doped u on that bs so he could power through those shots. Psh."
Ok. That takes a lot of pull to be able to make a story up about surgery on an injury that doesn't exist and sell it to/fool everyone in the medical, boxing and gossip/media community. LOL.
And yes, you put that shit back on like a jacket.
Holy crap! It's 3 in the morning! Muhammad Rasheed, as much as I've enjoyed this discussion about what could have been and what didn't happen...I'd like to get some sleep. I'm sure we will rehash this conversation when it gets closer to the Floyd vs. Connor contest. Good night.
Remember to take off the jacket before you sleep. ;)
Muhammad Rasheed - Jason Villena wrote: "Woah. Woah. I'm just responding to the part you stated that it was propaganda crap from the Pacquiao camp."
I know. Hence the "hyperbole" response. The random casual fans who were also repeating that crap weren't in Pacquiao's camp either, yes? Did you somehow believe I meant them, too? lol
Jason Villena wrote: "Roy Jones Jr had said it."
So? Was he in on the negotiations? All he knew was his own experiences, which were far less lucrative than Floyd's own from that side of the table. His opinion was colored by the same fallacy that colored that of the Pacquiao camp since he didn't know anything else, and didn't have a metric to measure Floyd's unique positioning by. Everyone assumed Floyd was just another fighter who was being handled by a gang of suits just like everybody else. Even Dana White thought that way, too, until recently. The fight was able to happen once everyone wised up. Everyone who are STILL saying Floyd was 'ducking' anybody have not yet wised up. Period.
Jason Villena wrote: "And we'll never know because Floyd chose Andre over a rematch with Manny."
If you're a student of boxing at all, you knew when watching that fight. Pacquiao revealed he wasn't in Floyd's league, just as we all really knew. "Butthurt" is a hell of a drug though. Let it go. No serious students of the sport are going on and on demanding a rematch. Manny would get peppered with shots while punching at the air in a return bout, too.
You continuing to go on and on about what the "betting public" thought/wants/thinks or what have you, lacks interest, Jason. I'm sure Floyd was well aware that Berto wouldn't be a super draw, and he was still cool with it. He finished out his Showtime contract and met his obligations. *shrug* His legacy is secure. Please note that Marciano didn't have 49 SUPER FIGHTS OF THE CENTURY!!!! in his portfolio either. lol If Manny really wanted to be in that slot then he should have acted like he wanted to be. The experts pointed out that he came into the fight without a gameplan, thinking to just go after Floyd, catch him easy, and put him away. In other words, he believed in his own hype (which was fantasy) instead of Floyd Mayweather's pound-per-pound hype (which was real).
Jason Villena wrote: "Ok. That takes a lot of pull to be able to make a story up..."
Pacquiao's camp had both the pull and the bribe money resources to pull it off. This is boxing, Jason. Grow up. He'll make a "full recovery" like your article link claimed because he wasn't damn hurt. This was just a show since his lie meant he had an undisclosed injury prior to the fight. He could either severely lose face and take back the lie, or pretend he really needed surgery. Neither Pacquiao nor his shitty camp have ever shown integrity thus far, so here we are.
Jason Villena wrote: "And yes, you put that shit back on like a jacket."
Just when I think I'm out of the game they keep pulling me back in!!!
See Also: Muhammad Ali versus Floyd Mayweather, Jr.