text: It was necessary to believe, in the words of Berengar's recantation of 1079, that the bread and wine "are substantially converted" into the very body of Christ. That became the accepted way of describing the change: "not in a phantasy, but substantially"; "earthly substances ... are changed into the essence of the Lord's body"; the substance of bread is changed into the substance of the flesh of Christ." {Quotes from three 11th century theologians} The problem of the color, taste, and smell of the eucharistic elements remained to be dealt with; not only Ratramus, but his severe critic, Ratherius, referred to these qualities as the "substance" of the elements. Although the Aristotelian distinction of "substance" and "accidents" had been known to Erigena {John Scotus Erigena, died c. 850) and others, those who were quite ready to speak of "substance" in the Eucharist would still refer to "outward appearances and certain other qualities" or to "properties," but not to "accidents."