Whether it's right or wrong to have to rely on doctrine --- I agree there are times when doctrine doesn;t guide us --- is not the point.  Follow the chain of discussion:  You had indicated the Church had changed its doctrine on slavery to one of disapproval.  I responded that Church had never had a doctrine approving of slavery. You answered, in effect, "Well, the Church was not known for condemning it."  I pointed out that you were equating doctrine with that which "the Church was not known for condemning."  It is tangential thinking for you to now say that "relying on Church doctrine to act at times makes us a poor Church, indeed."  True, but off-point.  Once again, it's hard to find linearity here at NCR.