Thanks Keiran, I knew you would at least reply. I believe it was indeed both, but the 'systemic' aspect was one which was based not on clericalism or conservatism, but on liberal sexual views about clergy and homosexuality which was and still is to a lesser extent, seeking to be the norm in the Church as opposed to traditional or conservative sexual approaches. And that's my point. Of course many chose not ot offend, but many do. Again, I say it: unless we accept that offending occurs because of errors in both conservative AND liberal thinking, agendas and approaches, the issue of clergy sexual abuse of both children and adults, will not be solved. I must admit that my emphasis is on abuse of adults and while there are definite parallels, there are also differences, especially in the general population of those who offend. Its a sweeping generalization but I have seen a trend in conservative clergy being child abusers, and liberal clergy being adult abusers. We have to address both.