sci/15349240.txt

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--- 15349240
something doesn't add up here
--- 15351555
>>15349240 (OP)
CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses iirc. H2O is a big one. That might make the difference.
--- 15351785
>>15349240 (OP)
Mars does obviously experience a greenhouse effect, but it's much farther from the sun. Yes sun can influence climate. More than one factor can influence the climate. No this information isn't shocking to anyone who's not an imbecile.
--- 15351809
>>15351799
This is the most low IQ way to be contrarian. 

Climate change is probably occurring, but it's not going to be the end of the world, and the remedy is not reducing standards of living. We should build out advanced nuclear, develop hot rock geothermal energy, and fund further research into fusion power. With cheap and abundant clean energy a vast array of social, economic and environmental problems are solved.
--- 15351834
>>15349240 (OP)
You don't even need to leave earth, just look at the past and understand causality (or lack thereof).

Inb4 positive feedback, no it still doesn't negate causality.
--- 15351840
>>15351799
>muh IPCC, muh nasa
cope and sneed. Arrhenius was right
>>15351809
agreed. I will not eat the bugs. I will do my part by WFH and not buying hoards of cheap chinese shit.
--- 15351881
>>15351785
Your graph is misleading.
When did we start covering the planet with vast regions of concrete?
--- 15351892
>>15351834
the graph seems to imply temperature drives co2 changes, no?
--- 15351928
>>15351892
Not necessarily, it only implies a correlation, however temperature reacts quicker (to whatever outside metric) compared to carbon dioxide, which lags behind. 

And then there's estimates about different periods of earth all together, like jurassic with +4°C average temperature but 100 (!!!!!!!11) times more co2, compared to today. It's crazy.
--- 15352004
>>15351555
Water is indeed the most significant gas contributing to the greenhouse effect on Earth. Furthermore Earth's surface is largely covered in liquid water that traps a lot of heat.

Also Mars is on the average roughly 1.524 times further from the sun, witch means it gets only around 43% of the solar irradiance that Earth gets
--- 15352257
>>15351928
>like jurassic with +4°C average temperature but 100 (!!!!!!!11) times more co2, compared to today. It's crazy.
believing that adding 0.01% co2 to the atmosphere will increase the greenhouse effect by 10% is whats crazy. you'd have to be very stupid or legitimately insane to believe in it.
--- 15354620
>>15352257
or brainwashed by television and public school
--- 15356751
>>15351555
>CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses iirc. 
In that case, how is adding 0.01% more CO2 to atmospheric content supposed to increase the greenhouse effect by 10%?
--- 15356760
>>15352004
Ban water! Save the planet! Make water illegal!
--- 15357341
>>15352004
what % of our tiny greenhouse effect is due to water & what % co2?
--- 15357378
>>15349240 (OP)
>Farther away with a much smaller atmospheric volume than earth
No problem
--- 15357573
did you just ignore the literal first sentence where it said earth has about 60 times more atmosphere then mars?
--- 15358601
>>15357573
Mars has over 20x more CO2 per unit surface area in it's atmosphere than Earth does. Mars also has no detectable greenhouse effect. CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas".
--- 15358628
>>15357341
If you mean what effect does human production of steam into atmosphere do, it is nothing because steam in atmosphere quickly turns into rain, so there is never too much water in atmosphere. As for how much of the total greenhouse effect is caused by water or CO2, I cant find that, but along with methane it is probably enough to cause the tiny 1 degree Celsius shift over the past century. Reducing water in atmosphere to combat it is impossible because it requires enough water to rain, so the whole system is self correcting.

Though keep in mind this is not my area of expertise, I just know about it slightly more then the politicians in that other thread saying CO2 concentration in the air is around 5 percent
--- 15358635
>>15358601
>Mars also has no detectable greenhouse effect
source on that?
--- 15358650
>>15358601
if co2 is not a greenhouse gas then how much warmer would mars currently be if it was?
--- 15358678
>>15358635
European space agency findings
--- 15358687
>>15358678
link?
--- 15358694
>>15358650
If "the soience" says that adding 0.01% more co2 to Earth's atmosphere causes a 10% increase in the greenhouse effect, or about 3ºC then Mars should be about 60ºC warmer if CO2 was a greenhouse gas, which it is not. 
The surface temp on Mars is pretty much exactly what one would expect it to be on the basis of solar flux if the planet had no atmosphere at all.
--- 15360324
retards itt. mars has a stronger greenhouse effect, but less radiation reaches it so you're not amplifying as much heat. maybe an analogy will help you dunces. what's a larger value: 
>10^(5)
>3^(9)
let a^(b) represent 
>a is radiation reaching planet
>b is amplification of radiation from greenhouse gas
what? how can 3^(9) be less than 10^(5)?
--- 15360337
>>15360324
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_equilibrium_temperature
--- 15360461
>>15349240 (OP)
Mars has almost no atmosphere at all.
--- 15360484
>>15360461
Mars has over 20x more CO2 than Earth. If that counts as nothing the the CO2 we have here also counts as nothing. That planetary equilibrium temperature link is high school level physics, but its very accurate. Solar flux accounts for nearly all of the heat of both Mars & Earth, CO2 is a non factor in both cases.
--- 15360487
>>15360484
>Mars has over 20x more CO2 than Earth.
And virtually nothing else, the atmosphere is virtually nonexistent, so of course it's cold.
--- 15361841
>>15360487
thinness of atmosphere shouldn't make a difference if co2 is such a powerful greenhouse gas
--- 15361853
>>15361841
CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas, but more to the point, there's fuck-all for it to warm up on Mars.
--- 15361872
*yawn* the only interesting planets have a protective magnetosphere. Anything without a magnetosphere is a hunk of trash
--- 15361878
>>15356751
>>15352257
Where are you getting your numbers from? There's been around a 35% increase in CO2 since the Industrial Revolution
--- 15361895
>>15351881
What is the difference between covering it in concrete and covering it with bricks?
--- 15364461
>>15349240 (OP)
There is about 172 kg of atmosphere over each square meter on the mars.
On the earth there is about 10 000 kg of atmosphere over each square meter.
(10 000 / 172) / (0.0007 / 0.019) ~ 1.578
Or in other words, on earth infrared energy has to go through ~1.6 times as much CO2 before it leaves the planet. 
And that is just CO2, there is a lot of other green house gases with a much higher green house potential, like water.
--- 15364830
>>15361878
what is 35% of 0.028%
--- 15365251
>>15364830
What are you talking about? Are you the same idiot who thought CO2 had only increased by 0.01%? Maybe try doing a little research and coming up with a coherent argument before coming back to this thread
--- 15365277
>>15356751
Your numbers are wrong like the other anon said, but the answer is feedback loops.
Small amount of CO2 increase -> slightly increased temperature -> slightly more h2o evaporation -> slightly greater increased temperature
--- 15366667
>>15366638
At higher temperatures (evaporation rates) there can be more water in the atmosphere before 100 % relative humidity is reached and clouds form.
--- 15366697
>>15366638
Sunlight can obviously pass through cloud cover, but radiated heat from the Earth's surface is more easily absorbed by cloud cover.
Water is an extremely efficient absorber of radiated heat (this is how microwaves work), but is, again obviously, much less efficient at absorbing visible and ultraviolet light.
--- 15366781
>>15366685
Look up equilibrium vapor pressure. It rises with temperature.

>15366692
if you don't want answers, why are you even here, reading replies?

>>15366697
That's not really it, no.
Sunlight is absorbed by water droplets and re-emitted. It's scattered. If it'd simply pass through, you wouldn't see clouds. More clouds do, in fact, lead to less heating of the earth. But you're right that radiated heat gets absorbed more. So ultimately more water in the atmosphere has a positive green house effect.

And microwaves work slightly different. The earth radiates mainly energy in the infrared spectrum. Infrared light excites vibration. Microwaves emit, well, microwaves. Those excite rotation. The rotation of the water molecules lead to friction which produces the heat.
--- 15366848
that's all folks, another scam exposed
--- 15369342
>>15364830
.0098
the percentage signs cancel out and the number becomes unitless
--- 15370296
>>15366781
>Sunlight is absorbed by water droplets and re-emitted.
water is transparent in the peak range of solar emission
--- 15372356
>>15358628
>>If you mean what effect does human production of steam into atmosphere do, it is nothing because steam in atmosphere quickly turns into rain, so there is never too much water in atmosphere.
that's with the current state of affair. now replace all the billions of motors with hydrogen motors pissing water 24/7 over 100 years and guess what happens to your ''there is never too much water in atmosphere.''
--- 15377349
>>15352257
Greta never learned how to do basic math, thats what powers the beliefs of these people. That and mental illness
--- 15377365
>>15377349
--- 15377375
>>15372144
They can use co2 to justify genocide, what do you think zerocarbon means?
--- 15377809
>>15377365
But why though? Who are all these people who are happy to get paid to write whatever the payer wants them to write, knowing that they manipulate perception on a large scale? Are they even human? It doesn't make sense to me. There's too much emphasis on elites and not enough on the faceless masses that execute what elites want. Why?
--- 15377874
>>15377809
It's just a job.
--- 15377960
>>15377874
Banality of evil it is then.
--- 15385335
>>15377809
Look up Retraction Watch. Academia is a disaster zone.
--- 15388476
>>15349240 (OP)
global warming is a false narrative
--- 15388850
>>15351785
--- 15392412
>>15365277
evaporation of water is endothermic not exothermic
--- 15394482
>>15392412
That is ignored because it doesn't fit the global warming doomsday scenario
--- 15395421
>>15365277
>slightly more h2o evaporation
more clouds = less sunlight reaching the ground
--- 15396050
>>15395421
Clouds reflect both sunlight and the infrared, and the net cloud effect is likely warming.
--- 15396060
>>15377365
It is perhaps worth referencing some of Curry's most influential papers:

Webster et al (2005) "Changes in Tropical Cyclone Number, Duration, and Intensity in a Warming Environment"
>[...] 30-year trend toward more frequent and intense hurricanes [...] This trend is not inconsistent with recent climate model simulations that a doubling of CO2 may increase the frequency of the most intense cyclones

Liu et al. (2012) "Impact of declining Arctic sea ice on winter snowfall"
>The results of this study add to an increasing body of both observational and modeling evidence that indicates diminishing Arctic sea ice plays a critical role in driving recent cold and snowy winters over large parts of North America, Europe, and east Asia.
--- 15396073
>>15351809
Great, who's paying for that? You? Meanwhile we're slaves to big oil and coal and we keep building more and more suburbs compounding the problem.

The main concerns of climate change are:
1. Increased food insecurity.
2. Water insecurity
3. Habitat loss
4. Mass migration
5. War

If these things sound fun, go ahead and keep burning fossil fuels. Nobody is funding your alternative energy sources because big oil demands to be paid all the money until the sun explodes. This is a problem which requires government intervention.
--- 15397462
>>15396050
thats why cloudy days are warmer than sunny days
--- 15397479
>>15396073
>This is a problem which requires government intervention.
ahahahahahaha
--- 15398453
>>15361853
>CO2 is not a particularly strong greenhouse gas
so you're saying that the global warning caused by CO2 narrative is a big lie?
that would explain the lack of "greenhouse efect" on mars
--- 15398766
>>15398453
Greenhouse effect's weaker on Mars for a few reasons, but why are you claiming Mars lacks it?
--- 15398938
>>15397462
Clouds types are not equal, and the effects change depending on day/night cycle.
--- 15399346
>>15398766
there is no measurable greenhouse effect on mars
--- 15399372
>>15399346
That is a remarkably wrong statement.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Infrared-spectrum-of-Mars-top-observation-by-TES-on-Mars-Global-Surveyor-probe-bottom_fig2_234515152

>inb4 b-but it's cold on Mars!
For several reasons. However, the fact that Martian CO2 is a greenhouse gas has been verified by measurement.
--- 15400443
>>15399372
*crickets*
lol
--- 15400462
>>15399372
ESA says there is no measurable greenhouse effect on Mars, CO2 is not a greenhouse gas
--- 15400537
>>15400462
The article you seem to refer to says "hardly any", not "no measurable greenhouse effect". The former means a small amount, and as I've said before, CO2's greenhouse effect properties have been observed.
I'm amazed that you managed to misread a simplified popsci article and ignored actual measurements because of that misunderstanding.
--- 15401868
>>15349240 (OP)
Scientifically speaking, why are climate scientists so bad at physics? Atmospheric Physics used to be a respectable discipline before it was moved out of the physics departments of universities.
--- 15401873
>>15400537
>hardly any
mars has over 2000% more CO2 than earth, yet it has no detectable greenhouse effect
CO2 is not a greenhouse gas
--- 15401914
>>15401873
>it has no detectable greenhouse effect
A remarkably false statement. See https://sys.4channel.org/derefer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Ffigure%2FInfrared-spectrum-of-Mars-top-observation-by-TES-on-Mars-Global-Surveyor-probe-bottom_fig2_234515152
--- 15401918
>>15401914
>level of detectable greenhouse effect smaller than error range
--- 15401922
>>15349240 (OP)
>something doesn't add up here
never does because "Climate Change" is a money making hoax backed by big oil and rich left-wing billionaires and politicians.
--- 15402063
>>15401918
He'll never reply to this with anything but cope. Once error is factored in, all of their doomsaying disappears.
--- 15402824
>>15401918
>no proof, no source
Try again. Is this from another popsci article you misread?
--- 15403374
>>15401918
CO2 is not a greenhouse gas
--- 15404283
>>15403374
This.
--- 15405289
>>15399372
The calculated thermodynamic baseline temperature of Mars does not account for the 2.7ºK CMBR, that calculation is from the late 1800s, it presumes the universe is 0ºK. Adding 2.7ºK to the calculated baseline temperature from solar radiation input wipes out the Martian greenhouse effect entirely. Doing the same thing on Earth wipes out over 10% of our supposed "greenhouse effect". 
Your global warming narrative is transparently fraudulent to anyone who passed sophomore thermodynamics.
--- 15405525
>>15405289
>Adding 2.7ºK to the calculated baseline temperature from solar radiation input wipes out the Martian greenhouse effect entirely.
No proof, no calculations, no source. Try again.
--- 15405528
>>15405525
The calculations he's referencing are posted in this thread. I see shills aren't big on reading.
--- 15405571
>>15405528
I don't see them. Shouldn't be too hard for you to repost them now, unless you're a liar and/or a troll.
--- 15405573
>>15405571
Scroll up very slightly. I know you can do it, anon. I believe in you.
--- 15405599
>>15405573
Refusing to directly provide a source seems to be a hallmark of a liar. I'll check back in a couple hours, hope you'll have posted proper sources by then.
--- 15405702
>>15405599
lol you can't even stop yourself from lying. It's in your very nature to cope and seethe and gnash your teeth without even putting in the effort to tap the scroll wheel on your mouse. Hint: it's 5 posts up from where you lost the argument.
--- 15406151
>>15405702
Waited a few hours just to see
>it's 5 posts up from a fictitious place in the thread
Refusing to provide a source seems to be a robust hallmark of a liar.
--- 15406154
>>15349240 (OP)
>what's average temperature on mars
>why mars doesn't suffer from greenhouse effect
nice runglish faggot
--- 15407016
>>15402063
So now that the math and physics have completely blown global warming out of the water, what next? Will Greta retire to live a life of luxury? Can she finally have her childhood back?
--- 15407298
>>15401868
Because they're political activists posing as scientist
--- 15407842
>>15407298
Very true. That's why nobody can debate the math on its merits, and they have to resort to pretending it doesn't exist in order to keep believing in climate doom.
--- 15407928
>>15351555
>Water is a gas
ok then
--- 15407930
>>15356760
Who are you, nestle
--- 15408680
>>15407298
--- 15409666
>>15408680
I'm glad people are still sharing this.
--- 15409957
something doesn't add up here
--- 15411003
>>15407016
This thread will 404 and then they will immediately go back to peppering the board with climate doom rumors as if the information shared here never happened. They aren't honest people, if an honest person is disproved then they can take it into account and modify their beliefs, if the same thing happens to a dishonest person they just ignore and pretend it never happened, so thats what will happen here. the global warming crowd has ulterior motives for their lies and they aren't going to give up on their plans just because physics disagrees with them, they never have in the past and they aren't about to start now.
--- 15411446
>>15351834
why did ppl 300000 years ago burn so many fossil fuels
--- 15411461
>>15409957
Yeah, they're just communists trying to use any excuse they can to take away your rights and take away more of your income via state theft taxation.

Green is the new red. They've been crying "the world will end in 5 years if you don't give up your rights and raise taxes" for the last few decades and we're all still here.
--- 15412663
>>15351555
>CO2 is actually one of the weaker greenhouse gasses
CO2 is not a "greenhouse gas" 
Plants need CO2 to absorb sunlight and convert it into matter, that process stores energy in chemical bonds rather than as heat. CO2 is an organic coolant.
--- 15412669
>>15351892
some of you denialists are okay. don't look up what milankovitch cycles are
--- 15413327
>>15411461
--- 15413673
>>15349240 (OP)
>something doesn't add up here
global warming is fake
--- 15414940
>>15411446
because they were anti-science
--- 15415001
>>15351785
See >>15388850
We've been saying that the Sun and other cyclical effects have an effect on climate for years and everytime you cuckheads called us "climate deniers". It is evident that you change your tune to try and win arguments and push an agenda. You're done.
--- 15415636
>>15413327
--- 15416811
>>15349240 (OP)
>Mars has a significantly higher CO2 density per unit mass of air
>Mars has 1% as much air pressure as Earth
What's so hard to understand? Why don't you ask ChatGPT to solve this 8th grade algebra problem for you too, you retarded fucking faggot?
--- 15417356
>>15416811
I can tell that you're experiencing emotional distress because of your use of profanity, science doesn't care about your emotions, science is for rational people
--- 15417364
>>15417356
I can tell by your use of armchair psychology that you're a failure
--- 15417410
Elon Musk says global warming is fake
--- 15417444
Damn this thread is almost one month old. I forgot how slow this fucking board is.
--- 15417512
>>15417410
Scientifically speaking, why are global warming deniers such blatant liars?
--- 15417521
>>15417410
>Elon Musk says global warming is fake
>pic clearly shows that that is not the case
"There are alarmists exaggerating the issues" is not the same as "it's all a hoax and none of it is real."