{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/35204","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/35204/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/35204/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/35204/events","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35204","id":293615366,"number":35204,"title":"Removes can_synth=0 from mining nanites","user":{"login":"Buggy123","id":16315400,"avatar_url":"https://avatars3.githubusercontent.com/u/16315400?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123","html_url":"https://github.com/Buggy123","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[{"id":163210381,"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/labels/Revert/Removal","name":"Revert/Removal","color":"000000","default":false},{"id":373745412,"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/labels/Tweak","name":"Tweak","color":"e99695","default":false}],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":12,"created_at":"2018-02-01T17:21:26Z","updated_at":"2018-02-01T20:42:30Z","closed_at":null,"author_association":"CONTRIBUTOR","pull_request":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/pulls/35204","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35204","diff_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35204.diff","patch_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35204.patch"},"body":"Reasoning: can_synth=0 is intended to prohibit Odysseuses and other sources such as vent foam, etc from creating extremely powerful or purely technical(blob) chemicals. Mining nanites is neither of these:\r\n\r\n - It has a astoundingly small overdose limit, one of the smallest of all reagents.\r\n - As a medicine, it heals at a rate equal to Ketrazine, which also gives near-immunity to stuns and sleep, has a higher negative effects dose threshold, speeds you up, and can be produced directly in chemistry.\r\n - Poison wise, it is decent but _also_ inferior to Ketrazine.\r\n - It cannot be synthisized normally, with this PR obtaining and using it as a medicine reagent nonetheless _requires_ a abnormal source such as a Odysseus.\r\n - Currently speaking, with this change, obtaining it requires gibbing a monkey which contains it, grinding the flesh, and then scanning it with a properly equipped Odysseus, which then can only produce it by shooting syringes filled with it, which would OD people if used directly and thus must be manually emptied and processed into pills/patches. Quite convoluted and involved.\r\n - Using it to heal requires careful dose management to avoid overdose. The amount of time it lasts is also quite short compared to the OD threshold.\r\n\r\n🆑 \r\ntweak: Methods of reagent replication can now produce mining nanites.\r\n/🆑 \r\n"},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/comments/362395488","html_url":"https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35204#issuecomment-362395488","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/tgstation/tgstation/issues/35204","id":362395488,"user":{"login":"Buggy123","id":16315400,"avatar_url":"https://avatars3.githubusercontent.com/u/16315400?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123","html_url":"https://github.com/Buggy123","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Buggy123/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2018-02-01T20:42:30Z","updated_at":"2018-02-01T20:42:30Z","author_association":"CONTRIBUTOR","body":"The entire game is in a slow, pretty much unstoppable state of power creep, if you don't try to improve old things at all they just fall into disuse.\r\n\r\nSecondly, IMO (slow) power creep is actually good for a game. If a person is extremely familiar with option A for doing something because it's the _only_ option, and then you add option B, one of three things can happen:\r\n1: Option A is better than B, B is never used except for novelty (bad)\r\n2: A is exactly equal to B, most people stick with A because they're highly familiar with it and B is stigmatized (bad).\r\n3: A is situationally (but not universally) better than B, people will be encouraged to used both A and B for different situations.\r\n\r\nThe problem is, if you have a option A that is slightly better than option B, then later you add C and then D and then E... \"situationally better\" eventually becomes \"better in every way\" and then you have the choice of bringing A up to speed or nerfing everything else.\r\n\r\nIf you nerf everything else, that leaves a bad taste in people's mouths - people _like_ to feel powerful, they like strong things and significant-seeming things. A constant, slow cycle of powercreep sort of feeds into that, because every time a new option comes along they feel like they have a new toy, and buffing old things makes them feel powerful again which is also good.\r\n\r\nBut if you nerf things, that's bad, people _don't_ like that, it doesn't feel good to have something you enjoy reduced, to have less power, less options.\r\n\r\nSo,  the best, but trickiest option out of the two is to buff A, bringing it back up to or closer to the power level you now expect from all the other options due to the powercreep, and continuing the cycle. But If you aren't careful, the cycle can progress too quickly and things can feel _too_ strong and effectively limit choices because people are obligated to use it.\r\n\r\nThis cycle can't continue indefinitely, not unless you revamp the more basic portions of the game - the end of a cycle like this would be having medicines which instantly revive and completely heal you and poisons which instantly kill and gib you, which would be completely absurd and no fun at all.\r\n\r\nWith many games, the game simply falls out of popularity and dies before this becomes a problem, or instead there are major rebalances/mass nerfs _all at once_ to get the unpleasantness out of the way and bring it back to a more reasonable state. TGstation seems unlikely to do the first, the second is more likely but I don't think we're near that point yet anyway.\r\n\r\nBut the cycle must go on. Without it a game simply feels static, any new additions fail to gather much interest and the game becomes boring. I have seen _many, **many**_ games successfully using this cycle, we shouldn't be _afraid_ of it but instead be aware of it and carefully control it.\r\n\r\nAnd this is just one such change - a minor buff to bring a minor element back up to snuff after it's gotten rolled over by the slow turn of the powercreep. Nothing more.\r\n\r\n\r\nIf anyone doesn't believe me I can go into more detail and provide examples of this in other games, just let me know, its certainly a unusual idea and I don't mind."}}
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