{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/6954","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/6954/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/6954/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/6954/events","html_url":"https://github.com/coq/coq/issues/6954","id":303886864,"number":6954,"title":"Organization of a hot freezing day","user":{"login":"herbelin","id":460771,"avatar_url":"https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/460771?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin","html_url":"https://github.com/herbelin","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[{"id":760587030,"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/labels/kind:%20meta","name":"kind: meta","color":"d18708","default":false}],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":19,"created_at":"2018-03-09T15:52:41Z","updated_at":"2018-03-12T14:02:38Z","closed_at":null,"author_association":"OWNER","body":"This collects opinions about how to organize a freeze with less stress and frustration (discussion started at #6247, skipping a post judged with a 👎 ).\r\n\r\nFrom @herbelin:\r\n\r\nI'm trying to understand how to organize things in a way which takes into account the complexity of the convergence process of a PR, which takes into account the personality of the submitters, which takes into account the time needed for reviews, the time needed for benchmarking and this is why I'm suggesting that it is not about one deadline where all of completing, reviewing, testing, documenting, freezing arrives at the same time, but a sequence of deadlines which gives enough time to each phase (thus making easier the task of @maximedenes, who unfortunately takes the rants of old geezers, and this is why I'm talking about defining what is the expected contract).\r\n\r\nThe synergy around Coq is wonderful, and everyone around is admirative of that, thanks to all the contributions of everyone, starting with @mattam82. My point is only about how to improve things further as one of the contributor (and incidentally how to avoid the stress accompanying a freeze)."},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/comments/372319912","html_url":"https://github.com/coq/coq/issues/6954#issuecomment-372319912","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/coq/coq/issues/6954","id":372319912,"user":{"login":"herbelin","id":460771,"avatar_url":"https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/460771?v=4","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin","html_url":"https://github.com/herbelin","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/herbelin/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2018-03-12T14:02:38Z","updated_at":"2018-03-12T14:02:38Z","author_association":"OWNER","body":"@maximedenes: Thanks for your message, but I'm afraid I have to say that I don't see in your message an answer to my questions.\r\n\r\nStarting with #873, I'm one of the main persons involved with it and it would seem natural that my opinion is taken into account. I call this a miscommunication. How do you call it? Are you willing to repair this miscommunication?\r\n\r\nAbout a \"marathon\" (or whatever name it is called), I was just trying to find solutions. You seem to start from the point of view that everything did well for the deadline. I'm saying that it did not. I appreciate the time, the reliability, the preparation you made about this release, talking about it long in advance, spending a long day on last Friday from early morning to late in the night, trying to be nice and diplomatic with those who were ranting, and all this was wonderful, and I really feel extremely grateful about it. I'm however observing that several features which should have been there are not. For 8.7, I had already asked you whether it would not be more reasonable to have a two-step deadline and you said no. Here again, the purpose of the deadline was unclear. I mean, I think I understand your point of view. You see the deadline from a release point of view and from your point of view it was clear. You make a personal evaluation of what you think is ready and this is your definition. But, then, obviously, this clashes with seeing the deadline as ready to be integrated from the point of view of the developer, like several of us have in mind. This is this mismatch that I, @RalfJung and @mattam82 are trying to address with a two-step deadline. A deadline in your sense, and a deadline in the sense of the work of developers. A deadline for developer works, without the pressure of doing a review in urgency, without the urgent pressure of convincing others of the interest of the proposition, or the urgent pressure of fixing a bug (+ a way to address the issue of stalling PRs), without either having to wait weeks if not months to get feedback, without the frustration that a work is abnormally blocked by lack of a good organization.\r\n\r\nNow, I'm sorry if I use a tone which apparently makes you react as if you were attacked. I mean, some of my comments on last Thursday about what seemed to me a rigor which was not appropriate to the reality of the situation, these comments, were, I agree, provocative. I had hopes that my provocation would trigger a discussion but it did not and this is why I'm trying now to trigger the discussion in a different way. I'm sorry about having been provocative. I know your proud and I'd be willing to please it and to make you happy in general, but a necessary condition for that is also that my own words are respected. Is that clear?\r\n\r\nIn particular, I'm fine if you want to be inflexible on a deadline but this is one more reason to have different deadlines. One which is inflexible and good for you. And others which are more loose and which are taking into account the reality of how an implementation process works, with sometimes unexpected technical issues, with sometimes unexpected long discussions, with sometimes unexpected long pings.\r\n\r\nWell, there are a lot more to say, but for the time being, I would like that we could focus on really discussing contents rather than playing a school playground game à la Trump-Kim. Again, I'd be happy to contribute to make your work more fluid, and to accept that you need inflexible deadlines in exchange of the services that you give to the team (see also my question above asking you to clarify the \"contract\" you would like to have with the team), but I can be supportive of the way of working which is good for you only to the condition that I could feel my own words, my own way of working and my own objectives being respected."}}
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