{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826/events","html_url":"https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826","id":168199293,"number":17826,"title":"Remove \"Construction\" skill, make constructions use different skills","user":{"login":"Coolthulhu","id":1878860,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1878860?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu","html_url":"https://github.com/Coolthulhu","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Coolthulhu/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/labels/Balance","name":"Balance","color":"fef2c0"},{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/labels/Enhancement","name":"Enhancement","color":"84b6eb"},{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/labels/Suggestion%20(Discuss)","name":"Suggestion (Discuss)","color":"FF3399"}],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":null,"assignees":[],"milestone":null,"comments":27,"created_at":"2016-07-28T21:18:13Z","updated_at":"2016-07-30T11:06:31Z","closed_at":null,"body":"Construction skill is, and has to be, underpowered:\r\n* Results of construction are immobile, unlike mechanics equivalents\r\n* Most of constructions are useless. Tables, chairs, lockers, bookcases etc.\r\n* Walls as static defenses are generally pretty useless. And when they aren't, solid rock is more useful than anything the player can feasibly construct.\r\n\r\nThis means that construction has no chance of being naturally leveled through use. It's all about books and grind.\r\n\r\nThe designation of construction as a separate skill also doesn't make much sense:\r\n* Wooden objects, including frames, foldable frames, use fabrication\r\n* Metal objects, like plating, also use fabrication\r\n* Moving objects (crossbow, speargun, motors) use mechanics\r\n* Controlled ignition objects (fire weapons) generally use mechanics\r\n* Digging holes uses survival\r\n* Construction is not architecture, because it only allows simple constructions, not towers\r\n\r\nIt only really works as \"masonry\" - working rock and bricks isn't covered under fabrication or mechanics. But could easily be, especially considering that masonry is an incredibly minor aspect of the game.\r\n\r\nHaving construction projects use different skills would have the following benefits:\r\n* High-level construction recipes could actually be used. Reading a construction book is a waste of time, but if it came for free with useful skills, someone might craft a wood stove, reinforced window or a well.\r\n* Construction recipes would become available with recipes similar to them. Work wooden planks, learn fabrication, learn how to produce planks from logs. Play with welding tanks and pipes (car work, mostly), level mechanics, learn to craft wood stove.\r\n* Early fabrication would have more uses. Fermenting vat can be a cool thing to have around if you have excess fruit and no way to preserve them (or want to bootstrap yeast production), so crafting it wouldn't be a waste of time - time you'd probably spend crafting spindles otherwise. You could also go around your house reinforcing windows instead of just crafting those spindles.\r\n* Rock forge setup would be achievable without grinding construction. \"Tool lock\" is a gigantic flaw in mid-game fabrication, which makes it nearly impossible to level naturally, despite tons of autolearn recipes for it."},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/comments/236359424","html_url":"https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826#issuecomment-236359424","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/17826","id":236359424,"user":{"login":"Izicata","id":4412171,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/4412171?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata","html_url":"https://github.com/Izicata","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/Izicata/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2016-07-30T11:06:31Z","updated_at":"2016-07-30T11:06:31Z","body":">The only person maintaining the uselessness of the skill in this discussion is Coolthulhu. We still haven't had any serious argument concerning the prospect of high durability fortifications that could possibly give construction some retribution.\r\n\r\nImmobile high durability fortifications will still be useless because you can only feasibly build them in areas you've already cleared of zombies. If you try to build fortifications in an area with zombies, they'll attack you while you're building, you'll have to kill them to finish building, and then the zombies are dead and the fortifications are pointless. I'm pretty sure they're still not useful even if you turn Hordes on because IIRC Hordes will just spawn zombies inside your fortifications. Additionally, the best fortification would still be a basement."}}
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