{"action":"created","issue":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/427","repository_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex","labels_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/427/labels{/name}","comments_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/427/comments","events_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/427/events","html_url":"https://github.com/plk/biblatex/issues/427","id":156166707,"number":427,"title":"Circa dates, circa date ranges, and question marked dates. Plus Eras.","user":{"login":"JohnLukeBentley","id":18357541,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/18357541?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley","html_url":"https://github.com/JohnLukeBentley","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/JohnLukeBentley/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"labels":[],"state":"open","locked":false,"assignee":{"login":"plk","id":1220851,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1220851?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk","html_url":"https://github.com/plk","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"assignees":[{"login":"plk","id":1220851,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1220851?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk","html_url":"https://github.com/plk","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false}],"milestone":null,"comments":126,"created_at":"2016-05-22T18:55:52Z","updated_at":"2016-06-26T20:43:24Z","closed_at":null,"body":"I request support for:\r\n\r\n* Circa dates, e.g. `origdate={c 0125}`; \r\n* Circa date ranges, e.g. `origdate={c 1487/1490}`; and\r\n* Question marked dates, e.g. `origdate={1750 ?}`.\r\n\r\nIt would be desirable for these kinds of values to be permissible in all date fields. I use `origdate` as the more likely example. There might be reasons for choosing different symbols for these kind of dates, to make parsing easier. There might be reasons for disallowing spaces.\r\n\r\nedit: \r\nThis issue thread also combines issue [Before the common era (BCE/BC) and common era (CE/AD) date support. #422](https://github.com/plk/biblatex/issues/422)\r\n/edit\r\n\r\n## Kinds\r\n\r\nWhen writing a scholarly piece there are several kinds of date ambiguities and uncertainties, these are listed below.\r\n\r\n(Part of the power of Biblatex is in providing support for many and any type of style guide. But in the cases below I sometimes borrow from the ...\r\n\r\nUniversity of Chicago. 2010. The Chicago Manual of Style. 16th ed. Chicago:\r\nUniversity of Chicago. http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/16/contents.html. \r\n\r\n... because it sheds some light on these issues. I could have chosen another style guide.)\r\n\r\n1. Circa dates. Where the scholarship is only able to fix a date approximately. Generally this is beyond the precision of a year, as in \"c. 125 CE\" (rather than at the precision of a day: we rarely see, in publishing, something like \"c. 0125-02-20\").\r\n\r\n    > ca. or c. \r\n    >\r\n    > circa, about, approximately (ca. preferred for greater clarity) \r\n\r\n    (University of Chicago 2010, under \"10.43 Scholarly abbreviations\", http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/16/ch10/ch10_sec043.html)\r\n\r\n        // These are my examples (derived but not quoted from (University of Chicago 2010))\r\n        (Epictetus ca. 125 CE)\r\n        (Epictetus c. 125 CE)\r\n\r\n1. Circa date ranges. \r\n\r\n        Citation: (da Vinci c. 1487–1490)\r\n        \r\n        Reference Entry: \r\n        Da Vinci, Leonardo. c. 1487–1490. Codex Trivulzianus.\r\n\r\n1. No dates. \r\n\r\n    > \"When the publication date of a printed work cannot be ascertained, the abbreviation n.d.\"\r\n\r\n    >     Boston, n.d.\r\n        \r\n    (University of Chicago 2010, under \"14.152 'No date'\", http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/16/ch14/ch14_sec152.html)        \r\n\r\n1. Question marked dates. \r\n\r\n    >  A guessed-at date may either be substituted (in brackets) or added.\r\n    >     Edinburgh, [1750?] or Edinburgh, n.d., ca. 1750 \r\n\r\n    (University of Chicago 2010, under \"14.152 'No date'\", http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/16/ch14/ch14_sec152.html) \r\n\r\n1. Ambiguities over which known date is relevant. For example we might have the following reference entry:\r\n\r\n    > Hume, David. 1751. “An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals.”\r\nIn Enquiries Concerning Human Understanding and Concerning the Principles of Morals, 3rd ed., edited by L. A. Selby-Bigge and P. H. Nidditch. New York: Oxford University Press, 1975-06-12. isbn: 978-0-19-824536-0.\r\n\r\n    ... but there is ambiguity around whether  1751 is the relevant original date, given ...\r\n\r\n    > Selby-Bigge and Nidditch’s 1975 edition is based off a collection of Hume’s\r\nessays posthumously published in 1777. \r\n\r\n    We could have chosen 1777 as the original date. But, in the case, we have reasons for choosing one date (1751) over another (1777). So in the reference entry we can add an annotation that explains all this. The annotation thereby handles the ambiguity ...\r\n    \r\n    > Selby-Bigge and Nidditch’s 1975 edition is based off a collection of Hume’s\r\nessays posthumously published in 1777. However, Hume’s “An Enquiry Concerning the\r\n    Principles of Morals” was first published in 1751, and that's the date we use here.\r\n\r\n## Feature requests for Biblatex\r\n\r\nBilatex already handles:\r\n\r\n* 3\\. No dates; and\r\n* 5\\. Ambiguities over which known date is relevant.\r\n\r\nBiblatex also provides for date ranges. \r\n\r\nSo I request the additional functionality for:\r\n\r\n* 1\\. Circa dates, perhaps input as in something like `origdate={c 0125}`; \r\n* 2\\. Circa date ranges, perhaps input as in something like  `origdate={c 1487/1490}`; and\r\n* 4\\. Question marked dates, perhaps input as in something like  `origdate={1750 ?}`.\r\n    \r\n## Other considerations.\r\n\r\nOften enough there might be no semantic difference between a circa date and a question marked date. Both can be used to express a uncertainty about a date. It's rare to come across a questioned marked date, relative to a circa date. So it might be tempting to ignore question marked dates with the rule: \"If you are uncertain about a date just designate it as a circa date\".\r\n\r\nHowever, there probably are going to be contexts, albeit rare, in which an author does want to maintain a semantic difference. E.g. For dates they are personally uncertain about, the author might tag with a question mark. For a date that the author knows a community of scholars has established as having a lack of precision, the author might tag with a circa.\r\n\r\nOn the issue of whether to support output formats \"ca.\" or \"c.\" as the abbreviation for circa, I'm undecided. Personally I can generally mostly recall seeing `c. 1815` and probably prefer this look, but the Chicago Manual of Style promotes 'ca.'. Perhaps both possibilities need to be supported for style authors who, in turn, provide options for users (with relevant defaults for a chosen style).\r\n"},"comment":{"url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/comments/228621632","html_url":"https://github.com/plk/biblatex/issues/427#issuecomment-228621632","issue_url":"https://api.github.com/repos/plk/biblatex/issues/427","id":228621632,"user":{"login":"plk","id":1220851,"avatar_url":"https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/1220851?v=3","gravatar_id":"","url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk","html_url":"https://github.com/plk","followers_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/followers","following_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/following{/other_user}","gists_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/gists{/gist_id}","starred_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/starred{/owner}{/repo}","subscriptions_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/subscriptions","organizations_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/orgs","repos_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/repos","events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/events{/privacy}","received_events_url":"https://api.github.com/users/plk/received_events","type":"User","site_admin":false},"created_at":"2016-06-26T20:43:24Z","updated_at":"2016-06-26T20:43:24Z","body":"Currently it's a `\\textminus` but I'm open to suggestions for the default."}}
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