I'm not so sure that there is an over-saturation of local breweries in the Chicago market. Even with all the new ones popping up, there are still very few compared to other major craft brewing cities.

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I agree to a point. But if all are creating similar products packaged in bombers I do think the market share will be tough. Especially when you consider that we have a ridiculous amount of great beer from elsewhere distro'd here (and more on their way i.e. Ballast Point). There is incredible demand and it keeps increasing, but like was touched on in the article Binny's only has so much shelf space. We have had a couple of new beer retailers focusing on craft beer (Beer Temple, Bottles and Cans) but how are the retailers going to move all of this beer?

I agree to a point. But if all are creating similar products packaged in bombers I do think the market share will be tough. Especially when you consider that we have a ridiculous amount of great beer from elsewhere distro'd here (and more on their way i.e. Ballast Point). There is incredible demand and it keeps increasing, but like was touched on in the article Binny's only has so much shelf space. We have had a couple of new beer retailers focusing on craft beer (Beer Temple, Bottles and Cans) but how are the retailers going to move all of this beer?

Beer Trader

I went to Binny's yesterday and saw rows upon rows of plain white boxes full of Pipeworks looking bombers. Some of it was Pipeworks but on closer inspection I saw a DIPA and Pale Ale from 18th St and a couple of Spiteful bombers. And I thought to myself why on Earth would I even try these? Why would I shell out the $10 to TRY a beer when there are already 3-5 local IPAs that I already love?

The reason is because I like beer...a lot and I'm willing to give this stuff a try but why would anyone else? What would motivate someone to buy any of these beers that all....honestly....look the same?

I thought the comments on pricing w/r/t bombers especially interesting. The River North Binnys has rows and rows of Pipeworks bottles that just don't move (Froggy Porter, etc.). Stacks and stacks now from Spiteful and 18th Street. I liked the Biker Burner just fine but if I'm going to spend $10-12 on a DIPA, I'll just wait for the next ninja/unicorn from Pipeworks.

Along similar lines, now that A Little Crazy is in 6-packs, I don't know why I would buy Glaucus again. Not that price drives every decision buying decision I make (I'll try most any bottle at least once) but for consistent purchases? I wish I weren't so price conscious but, sadly, I didn't study hard enough in school, so here I am.

Beer Trader

Thanks for sharing. I really hope to see a change in the bomber approach. Why not 4-pack cans? How expensive is that? I assume printing the cans plays a role, especially with Pipeworks having so many beers.

Beer Trader

PM:It seems like having lots of styles and constantly experimenting puts you at risk of having lots of beer just not selling. Some of those experiments will fail, right?JL: They should! Experiments should fail. If they don't you're not trying hard enough.PM: Sure, but if you experiment with stuff you're trying to sell, it seems like it could cost you a lot of money.JL: Sure. There's a balance there.JS:That's a risk.

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PM:Smaller breweries have to release almost everything, right? They can't afford to have no return on a batch?JL:Depends on cash flow. I've seen beer put out that by no means should have been. More capitalization protects you from that risk. I'm budgeted for two failed batches right now.

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first thing that popped into my head was dark horse's lambeaks.
i'm hoping they admit it and offer exchanges for a pallet of BBPT5, then i can trade it for a pair of tickets to DLD

Thanks for sharing. I really hope to see a change in the bomber approach. Why not 4-pack cans? How expensive is that? I assume printing the cans plays a role, especially with Pipeworks having so many beers.

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My guess as far as cans go for Pipeworks is that they have no room to store the empty cans waiting to be filled. One of the two said that the minimum order these days for cans is half of semi-trailer. Pipeworks has no room for that many empty cans (nor the room for a canning machine).

Beer Trader

My guess as far as cans go for Pipeworks is that they have no room to store the empty cans waiting to be filled. One of the two said that the minimum order these days for cans is half of semi-trailer. Pipeworks has no room for that many empty cans (nor the room for a canning machine).

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Hmm, that sucks. Hopefully soon they can. I mean, if Finch's can do it in their small brewery, selling (presumably) less beer, it shouldn't be that out of the picture.

EDIT: Actually, Finch's probably sells more because they're in markets outside of Chicago.

"JL: It's really cool to see outsiders throw their hats in the ring. On the one hand there's a creativity and outside perspective from not coming within the industry and cutting your teeth somewhere else. But then, someone has to teach you how to clean a tank, how to use caustic safely, how not to burn yourself or hurt someone. And it's professionals that know how to do that. Home brewing does not prepare you for that."

I think this was such a great point. It's easy to get passionate about brewing, but just as easy to forget that you have to pay your dues and learn it as a trade first.

I would be stunned if Off Color fails, with the Laffler cult following. I certainly will be interested in the things they produce. Laffler has been anointed a barrel god in Chicago, but his lagers have impressed me... I am certainly interested to see how Off Color will fit into the Chicago scene. I guess the following will be something of a cross between old world beer fans and people who know Laffler from GI. I certainly welcome a brewery in Chicago that makes obscure styles of beer. When (if ever) was the last time a Gose was produced at any scale in the Midwest?

With regards to other new breweries in Chicago, I personally already have fatigue. Until someone tells me otherwise, I don't have time or money for Atlas, 18th St, Finch's, Dryhop, etc, etc. I don't think that I am alone in this sentiment.

I thought that the Southern California reference was pretty silly. San Diego is a different world.

Hmm, that sucks. Hopefully soon they can. I mean, if Finch's can do it in their small brewery, selling (presumably) less beer, it shouldn't be that out of the picture.

EDIT: Actually, Finch's probably sells more because they're in markets outside of Chicago.

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small brewery? Finches is about 5-6 times larger than us in floor space and about 20 times larger than us in capacity... getting in the canning business is no small venture... that's not our bag right now.

Beer Trader

small brewery? Finches is about 5-6 times larger than us in floor space and about 20 times larger than us in capacity... getting in the canning business is no small venture... that's not our bag right now.

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But no brewery in the world has the capacity to hold the love I have for the great pipeworks!!!

good read. John is a good friend of ours. We've known him since day one of us trying to do this. We share a lot of the same opinions too on the so called 'market' and 'industry'. To be clear... we're only a year old. This is not the exact Pipeworks we intended it to be... will it be... yes, absolutely. But in just one year, we've had to make tough calls, and do things to help get us closer to where we can be the brewery that we set out to be. We aren't out to fuck anyone. Blue Lady was a genuine mistake, we never would have released that had we had known what would happen with warm conditioning (that would be plain suicide)! that is one we absolutely would have eaten had we known. And because we don't announce it... we have eaten batches of packaged beer before, rather than screw a customer over. It's a new game, we don't always know what is going to happen. Some stores sit on beer longer than others, that's a distribution game... they ask for 5 cases... and we oblige and then 3 months later they still have 3 cases... well that's part of being a distributor not just a brewer... so in year one... we learned how to distribute better... just because the beer buyer is excited and wants 10 cases... doesn't mean we should give it to them because we find out they still have it on their shelf a few months later and that makes US look bad... and screws anyone over who's buying a 3 month old IPA. So we had to learn how to be a distributor too and properly allocate our beer. I love this read because it's the same things John and us having been talking to each other about for years... same exact shit. Yea... we don't want to be a bomber only brewery... we know that it devalues our good beer by putting our 'regular' beer in bombers... John's absolutely right about that, and we've talked about it, but we have no other choice right now... none. We thought selling our 'smaller' beers at $7.99 would help balance things out... nope, we put great beer at $7.99 and that's our slowest selling beer...across the board, so we can't even do that (if you are wondering all the $7.99 beers are slated for 6-pack packaging in the future). Again, it's only been a year... and this just happens to be a stepping stone for us to get to where we can really do what we want to do and package the way we want to package. Packaging is the number one driving factor in your beer price. Some of these big fucking breweries pop up over night with tons of funding and new everything... well that's not us... we were funded by you all and we still need that help to get to where we can compete, and thankful you've helped us get really close!

Beer Trader

small brewery? Finches is about 5-6 times larger than us in floor space and about 20 times larger than us in capacity... getting in the canning business is no small venture... that's not our bag right now.

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Yeah that's quite obvious in retrospect that you're not as big as Finch's. Also, it's quite clear it's not your bag, but as someone who sincerely loves your beer and supports every release on a very limited budget, one can only hope to afford more of it.

Thanks for all the great beer. Look forward to the next Citra Ninja batch.

and we share John's sentiment and resent the fact that we are sometimes labeled as 'poster-child' of the home brewer gone pro... because that's not exactly accurate, we had years of time hanging with our professional brewer friends and being around breweries and learning before we got our own. I'm scared for some of these home brewers spending life savings on tanks going pro... I've talked to some who have been using their tanks for months and have no idea what passivation is... or how to properly use caustic or even how to dispose of it, pressurized tanks are no joke.

Also, Philip is one of our first supporters who helped us with Kickstarter... but man we got lucky... we were only the 2nd brewery on kickstarter while it was still in beta mode... if we had to do that a year later we would have never even tried I don't think.

and the reason you see like bombers is because we shared our label and bottle supplier along with our 'home made' bottling design with the 3rd wavers

Beer Trader

Pipeworks: I will take any and all of the highs and lows of creative, unique, ballsy experimentation 'on shelf' over the same boring, market-tested shit I see all the time. Then again, I do submit to highly experimental governmental algae and mold testing bi-weekly. In all seriousness, it's an exciting experience to try so many new concoctions consistently from you guys, as each bomber is a new adventure, just as fun, whether I like it as much as the last or not-regardless of cost. Keep up the great work, fellas.

and we share John's sentiment and resent the fact that we are sometimes labeled as 'poster-child' of the home brewer gone pro... because that's not exactly accurate, we had years of time hanging with our professional brewer friends and being around breweries and learning before we got our own. I'm scared for some of these home brewers spending life savings on tanks going pro... I've talked to some who have been using their tanks for months and have no idea what passivation is... or how to properly use caustic or even how to dispose of it, pressurized tanks are no joke.

Also, Philip is one of our first supporters who helped us with Kickstarter... but man we got lucky... we were only the 2nd brewery on kickstarter while it was still in beta mode... if we had to do that a year later we would have never even tried I don't think.

and the reason you see like bombers is because we shared our label and bottle supplier along with our 'home made' bottling design with the 3rd wavers

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o, last edit, there were no matching funds from investors... we never accepted any money from investors, we started with far less than $100,000, probably half of what John's new brewhouse cost ;-)