okay and do not forget the 0 yeah so hi everyone thanks for coming to this meeting well as you all know the topic of this morning is meeting is the fact that we are moving and we are going to get more space so that is a very good piece of news but we also have to find out how we use this space so if you want i will just give a brief overview of what is happening and then we can talk about well arranging these new the new office space so in case you have not seen the the documents let me just show you very briefly the the configuration of the the space so well there is nothing much to say well you know how many of us are are present and you know that we are a bit tight actually in our present location that is why actually the university finally allocated us this this part of the unimail building so it is at the 6th floor and it is sort of contiguous rooms as you you can all see from from here so the the the one p 2 p 3 p means the the number of persons as you can see we have several corridor with a number of of of rooms of one person rooms 2 person room and and 3 person rooms actually i think agnes did this nice drawing so she even put the the view so we have the old town on one side and the mountains on the other 2 sides we have some bathrooms for us and a courtyard which actually means a sort of shaft because the court is down at the 1st floor andre just yeah just a a clarification question are they number of people per room indicated strict or can we play around with i mean if there are 2 people is it really that you can not put 3 or 25 or how how was it calculated well it is a bit difficult to say because in fact we have some constraints in terms of furniture they are here kay so well your your person your your question actually is answered maybe by the 3rd item so each person should get well it is a sort of desk it is made of 2 pieces and it looks like a corner with of course a chair a filing cabinet that goes under the desk and well we can put hanging shelves over the the desks so i am not really sure it is possible to get 33 desks in a 2 person office but we could try what is what should be said here i do not know if well you i i will maybe distribute now documents if you do not have them maybe it is easier do you need something martin i have everything i can keep this for you okay so so it is it is yeah you have a copy susan i have a copy yeah you too david i think so in fact there are more places than people so we will not be that constrained as you know some of us and some of you here actually martin and david are part time so it it is for the moment quite comfortable normally we should even get an extra an extra place for you know temporary people coming to work on on projects are you sure of that yeah i yeah i counted so we have 15 pers physical persons and about 16 i think persons 0 actually 18 persons in the offices 2 6789101112131415161718 yeah but counting the rea the the reading room exactly it so one of the issues here it is probably not on the slides is that we would like to have unlike what had until now a lounge or reading room in one of the the offices so in one of the rooms do we really need that i think quite a lot of people e expressed the need for that so if we could do it then i think it would be much nicer let me also saint say something yep and susan do not forget the time we spend to for discussions about that room so you should be able to valorize this if possible okay yeah i i think so but i still agree with you that the b the we are not so we are not so large as far as space is concerned yeah because 15 people to put in there 18 positions so to the best if you take 2 people room for the reading room then you have 16 places well 16 slots for 15 people so it is still should be feasible yeah that that also means that the growth will be 0 that is yeah i think that is quite important to manage some space maybe we can think of yeah some 2 or 3 yeah for visiting people visiting visiti visiting researchers students coming for exchange students et cetera correct yeah okay so let me finish with the the constraints which are almost done so we also need to to find the a spot for the photocopier the fax machine and the printer the fax you know is very small but the photocopier is quite huge and the printer is well ab this size okay the offices comes with white boards not very very important the furniture that w each each person has and you have a list of people so the thing you you ought to know is that we are not the only ones that w we are thin that that are thinking about for well about putting people i in these rooms there is another group that is also having discussions so the idea is that today we will just try to f start seeing the main constraints and then you have time to to go and think about it ask the people you know your assistants for instance and at the next meeting we will try to to come with one solution the other group will also propose a solution and then there will be another negotiation so w and if we do not get this space then what happens if i if we do not get these these yeah well basically they are promised to us so do do you think there are chances that they take from us one of the rooms or we j we stay where we are okay yeah i i i think it is yeah no the the the chances might be that there are more people to put in that space yeah i yeah that is one of the the problems i think maybe we should take this into account and maybe think of some of the bigger rooms with 4 people one being temporary or or part time okay so maybe we could try to to see now what would be the main options say the general well arrangement options do you think that we should put people say according to projects for instance in in the table that that we have we also have the the p the main projects on which the people are working so how yeah andre sorry for interrupting but one again clarification question what is the real margin of maneuver that we have for these discussions because at least we are half per cent 50% of from e p f l and sometimes you have meetings where w y the the decision is already taken so you can spend quite a lot of time discussing things so what what will be the impact of what we will come out come up with 0 actually what is fixed is the n the number of rooms this we cannot really change i mean at least not us it would be much more difficult to get another another room for instance but what is absolutely n not fixed is the arrangement of the people in the rooms so another way of a so basically we are all the permutations are possible at the moment another way of asking the question is there any other group already working on on the how this should be should be allocated or are we the the one that is supposed to do the p the the p position for it well what we are looking for is a solution that suits everyone and that makes the maximum of people happy so the other group is i do not think we have to see them as competitors but they are just trying to to find another local optimum or l but wha why why do not they have any representative here i mean yeah why did not we have a meeting together yeah why do we do it separately they have another group and then andre and agnes will discuss about it with you are the representative representative of this group actually yeah yeah we yeah i i think that is yeah there is no real competition between the 2 but we will just try to find at least 2 solutions and see how how close they are actually it is it is i think well the m the people who who decided this thought it was the best solution to well you know find 22 kinds of opinions yeah okay well we could have been 8 h sitting around here and and talking but i think it is it is more difficult no but you know that that is a standard thing it is suppose that somebody for some strange reasons want to be in the corner and we do not know about that we will put them put her or him somewhere else then we will do plenty of work for nothing because we will not have this constraint we will not be aware of this constraint well exactly i think so so today the goal is not to to find the solution today 0 okay but to set some constraints and then go and see the people and find out if they have any preferences okay obviously we will not be able to accommodate all the the preferences but at least we will find the most the most important ones well certainly we have to ask pierrette and and maggie since they are not here p s i think because they also have a lot of students that they have to see as we do and so that is another consideration too yeah yeah yeah i think so that is one of the things i think we know that they have students we do not know exactly if they prefer for instance to be alone or to well to be with their assistant or even with another person working on the project so that would have been maybe yeah another solution is to ask everyone to provide an arrangement but i think that is a bit a bit hard then to to work out so since all of you have a copy of the well of the drawing i think for the next time m maybe you could come with a concrete proposal with names on it but let us try to see today whether we prefer to organize people say by projects or just professor and assistant so what would be f say 1st your preferences since let us let us start with us maybe today what do you think about it would you prefer to be alone would you prefer to be with your assistant you who are part time do you think you can come here on a very w well regular schedule or is it part time but variable during the week yeah okay me personally i would like to to to share the other peopl n the room with assistants as when you have problems of normal life like the printer does not work i do not want to ask this to my supervisor so it is better to to be with a with an assistant to share the room huh and since you are coming on the half time do you think you will be able to group your presence here say monday tuesday and wednesday morning or is it going to be m much more random what i do not think it is a good idea to share t to ha to share the same desk okay i still would like to have my drawers and these things yeah i think so too so martin you are also half time and well the 3rd person is gisella i think it is quite clear that each person should have their own desk and yeah i agree with that that is it is no no way we we could put 2 persons at the same desk whe whe where part time is important is that it is n an overlo load on a room so for sure if you have a part time person it reduces the the ranges of time where too many people in the room yeah i think grouping as far as i am concerned i probably might be able to have a kind of a regular presence here the the thing that f in my case has to be taken into account is that i will have a lot of phone calls so i will be talking 000 over the phone all the time 0 great so that is not necessary well it depends on i i have nothing against sharing a a an office with somebody i d already did it before so and it was perfectly fine it just has to be somebody who can work while somebody else is having phone calls in the in the room which is very d much dependent on people some people are not disturb at all by this some people just can not work are you disturbed by the phone calls of other people i am not okay but and what might happen but it it will not be so heavy here at issco is visitors so that i will have more at e p f l typically students coming in or asking for things as i am not teaching here i am teaching at e p f l this should should not be a such a big load so for me it it will be essentially i will not be i will not be able to be silent in the room because i will be communicating also through vocal means so ye before talking more about individual preferences is there any possibility what they have done in the faculty of law for example that they actually split rooms and so we would take one of the 2 people rooms and split it and you would see that you would have the same size office but that would give the privacy yeah insofar as in just about every other faculty in the building every professor has their own office and it is it is really it goes a bit far that we have to have this all this sharing so one option and that but that we would need to ask about if we could split one of the rooms do you go for boxes for instance in the in the bigger rooms where yeah you know like cubicles like cubicles yeah that does not really solve it i mean there is there is really a difference to having to have your own yeah you mean you really want to have walls and sometimes you have you need to have private discussions with somebody or whatever so 4 walls yeah yeah sure sure yeah i i i will try to find out whether we can separate i think for the moment the answer at least is no because it is not only well making a wall but also b making a new door so it is quite a lot of of work but i will try to find this out for the next time so at least for the moment as you can see there are i can show them here on the screen so there are these 2 rooms on the left that accommodate one person so at least some of the professors since you are 4 could could go well could take these these rooms yeah and quite a lot of rooms with 2 persons how do you feel susan about the professor sharing the room with her assistants or the one which is the most involved in in the teaching well i i think it is really a matter of personal preference as you know i prefer to have my own office i also have a lot of phone calls and y you know have to see people and with the other work that i am doing with the rectorate that is really confidential information that i am treating yeah so i that i have to be really careful about too yeah but it is a personal preference insofar as what we have had up until now both maggie and pierrette have been happy to share with others so i mean i think that we should still check with them i fully agree with that that is it is much easier to me to to foresee having 2 people of the same position sharing a room than well not sharing with each other they each share with an assistant 0 sharing with their students yeah 0 sorry because but that that is it is it is tricky because of confidentiality reasons as you said yeah yeah you you you are discussing a budget on the on the project you over the phone typically you do not necessary want to have somebody who will be dependent on that budget being part of the discussion so paid on that yeah that is that is true okay maybe we could s look a bit at the projects do you think it is a good idea to put together in the same room as much as possible people from the same project no since they talk quite a lot of to each other no because pro project does not last in time they will change that is what the only thing that will not or that will change only progressively in time is the status of the people okay well yeah and some of the p h d students will hopefully finish their p h d at some point yeah they will promote that but still th some things well yeah yeah and also some of our the people mentioned here are working on more than one project too yeah so for example marianne de she is also working with me on the virtual campus project so she that one was not mentioned huh but i am not saying that i necessarily want to be with her in the office okay yeah but it is just to say people are working on sometimes more than one project if if it if i if projects are what you have in mind i think that meeting room is the the tool for that if you need to have people in a projects talking together yeah yeah they just have a meeting room if it is not too far away then then it is a very good good practice yep yeah well actually so the lounge could serve as some kind of meeting room but there are also more formal meeting rooms available in in the building as we now know yes that is why i was quite receptive to susan is remark at the beginning is i would not formulate it in a such a an extreme way as do we really need the lounge but i would p probably formulate it in the way that do we want to have only a lounge or s something that can be used only as a reading room because because meeting rooms to me are very important tools to do collaborative work but on the other hand we also have to relax so that is so i think we need a yeah and and i think also we need a separate discussion on the furnishing of the lounge which is a whole other topic yes well yeah we will skip that for now yes no i d the lounge okay but i think we need to also see it as a overflow place when we have visitors for any length of time yeah so they actually have a place to work yeah cause that is really my one of my worries with the plan that we have here is that it is it pr provides no possible possibilities of expansion huh and this will happen i mean you can not you can not prevent having visitors and you should not no you want to have visitors yeah yeah for the moment actually i think only one slot would be fully free yeah that is yeah which for for 15 people it is not enough yeah that means one visitor at a time i mean yeah or one intern yeah it is we have we have 4 professors here and and and 2 researchers yeah that is it is it is funny that we move to another building because we run out of space and we will have the same problem yes but we have more space here than what we currently have so it is at least some ah okay yeah it is already in progress it is bad it is bad and you are you are working i think yeah w okay so one of the things i have to do for the next time is fin find out about the separations between rooms and because this is really related with security regulation as well i mean you can not just put walls in in rooms without any specific authoris yeah yeah i think it is quite a heavy transformation of the building it is not necessary heavy in terms of work it is heavy in terms of administrative authorisation and okay i will try to find out at least at e p f l and the other question is can we squeeze maybe 4 people in the or at least 4 places in the 33 p room i think so if you organize the desks in a in a intelligent way yeah hopefully visitors do not need as much say filing space or yeah they do not have that many papers yep yeah right that is the point okay so that is i have to to ask so you do not really feel very strongly attached to this grouping by projects idea no no no because they can share their ideas across the project yeah i would say coffee machines are that made for that yeah exactly but usually whe when new assistants come they would like to share the room with someone that knows l it is related with the project so he can no that is that is proximity does not play a big role there we can discuss with people that the the space is very small i mean altogether it is yeah they they can change and you do not y you do not need to discuss about the projects you f more need about th to discuss about where is the printer no okay how do i get furniture i am i do not have a a pencil where is the the box with the pencils and so on this is not project related no and if you look now at their the the current division of the offices for example bruno and agnes are sharing an office and they are working on totally different projects and and they are they are just fine with that yeah yeah i think that is that is going to be one of the the main things we will have to ask is whether people have strong preferences either in staying with someone or in not staying are you aware f of any strong constraints right now well there there were but they sort of disappeared as of october when the no smoking rule came in because before we were grouping the smokers and now that there is no smoking i guess that is not very important option though 0 yeah that is true okay yeah that is true so smoking is now no longer a constraint well except for that maybe you do not even want anybody smoking on your balcony so yeah is it allowed to smoke inside an office if it is a one person no not any more no no no n it is in in principle it is a it is a no smoking building it is non smoking campus you can smoke outside so you can go outside onto the balcony to smoke not even in the cafeteria not even in the cafeteria downstairs no full no smoking building for all of the 6000 students yeah that is the new regulation okay wow on the roof maybe on the balcony actually yeah the balcony okay yep yeah normally there is the there is that terrace but andre just a wow there there is no place in inside the building no wow e t p f l is a c it is a non smoking campus but there are some places tha still some places where smokers can survive yeah yeah yeah but andre just a comment abou about your your previous request yeah i i do not think that anyone will provide you information such as who does not want to be with whom that is a typical output of ex research in expert systems these are the rules that you never get but you can get them through a proposal the other way so you propose a set up where people are with other peoples and they will find politically correct ways to tell you that they do not want to have a view on the mountains but they prefer to have view on the old town so they would be in the toilets 0 on the toilets or they would p prefer to be in another room no we we do have one constraint that is difficult which is gisella because when she is there she is very noisy yeah yeah yeah she is on the phone a lot it is just it is by yeah but that is a sec s that is the admin that is the admin so it is part of the work it is by nat by the nature of her work that a lot of it is communication yeah yes martin said also for him and yeah especially for her yeah yep yeah the in she is the interface and that that is a problem you are right so because because we do not have a one person we d we do not have enough one person rooms for accommodating the the admin place yep and if you put 2 person persons or 3 persons for the admin space who who who else would you put in there because we do not have any assistant manager or we do not have we have only one half part half time admin and no other non researcher positions if i am not mistaken and this is really a piece of a problem yep maybe you could put some visitors but yeah yeah i think yeah i know it is not very realistic in a in a in an admin room but i think putting gisella with the other admin of the school is not an option because we were not offered yeah i think that is a excellent idea it would be nice but okay i will try to find out but why do not we ask about that yeah because you can not put a researcher there that is just either you lose one position or you find another admin or assistant manager i th yeah i mean there is certainly enough space down the hall wi if all of those offices that are where half of them are also half time and they are very under used yeah so okay we will try but all these yeah are say sort of difficult questions because they involve changing also the offices of the school and yep you know people just do not want to change in general let us see maybe we can find some temporary well at least a proposal for gisella so since the one person rooms are quite well sort of desired by a lot of people she should probably no y yeah no that is not sure that is not sure the there are to me there are 2 options possible is either you we can take one of the one person rooms for the admin okay because some of typically the professors have good reasons for sharing sharing either with a colleague or sharing with some of their one of their p h d students in that case it is it is realistic then we could very very simply allocate the one pers one of the one person rooms for the admin and that would solve the problem the other thing is to take a 2 person room for the admin that could be the one close to the close to the here in the center so the yeah the the middle one here but tha no no no the other one the the one op yeah here this one okay this one okay but then that the the question of what do we do with the 2nd position there remains fully open so i would be i would be more of the opinion to to see whether it is it is so evident that well let us say the at least the 2 full full time professors that are here on the list we have one here but maggie is is not present yeah if they really and pierrette too yeah and pierrette yeah if if if because of personal preferences they would be happy with a 2 person room which might or might not be the case yeah well i mean it is it is certainly not something that we should impose but we can ask yeah yeah because in this case yeah gisella could take one of the the 2 person rooms and the other place would be for some kind of visitor that yeah but that is not realistic either i mean you have you have a fore foreign researcher coming visiting you and you will put put him in the admin office i or ah okay you will not do that i mean maybe you can do that with an exchange student that is yeah with with younger people yeah yeah or an intern but you can not take a senior visitor and him in the in the secretary no so we we invite invite and then we say okay you can sit with gisella you are here yeah okay okay so this sets a bit the stage for for gisella then yeah we will try to to find out actually yeah maybe we should remind that quite a lot of professors at the at the school actually share their office with their assistant so b it looks like sort of an implicit tradition maybe not to be followed as susan said p except for in every other faculty okay yeah is that so yes it is so 0 every other faculty as far as i have seen their offices and the people that i know and that is in in law yeah socio economics okay okay it is a they all have their own office i mean in in the in the law faculty they are at best there half time no no that is it as we said it is it is really a matter of personal preference it cannot be something else it cannot be imposed for sure yeah it is okay so i think well this sets a bit the stage could we try so could you try please to do you want an extra piece of paper maybe try to well think on your own and then talk a little bit just to the people around you job again andre i think that the only realistic way we can do is to speak for our for ourselves i can tell you according to what i know now where i would like or would be ready to be but i really do not see how i could decide for maggie or pierrette or whoever else on the list that they should be there yeah no the point was to try to well just talk to them to david or we are going to have to yeah b why why could not we do like could not we do it like for for the the set up of meetings you you everyone received that and should provide yeah i would like to be here and then you will have this multi constraint problem and you work during 2 hours and you come up with the optimal solution yeah so w w w will you ask people just for their place or also for the other people is place yeah i would i would ask for their place i mean that is that is that is the important thing you want to know because huh w what abou what about the the the cafeteria well but that is i mean we are going to purchase a cafeteria with a projector and all this altogether or reading room yeah it is a reading room it is altogether reading room it is not a cafeteria so in the living room but that that is an open question whether it is a it is a it is a it at the origin it was supposed to be a f pure reading room for relaxing reading the newspapers et cetera et cetera there has been a very long discussion about that i stinct this discussion is still vivid that some of the people i bel belong to these people would like to have a mixed room where you can have a reading room for sure but also meeting room if necessary or as susan said a room an emergency room where you can put some visitors in a decent environment for for for for work because you do not have any other place to do it but that is that is really an open discussion and that d i think no decision no final decision has been taken about that yeah okay th then okay then for the next time try to come up either with your own preferences that is quite easy probably to state now that you know the constraints yes yes or if you can poll a little bit the people around you that would be i mean even the one that i do not want to have in the next room well just discuss i yeah for instance i mean no no i was thinking just ask people around you what they think about this okay and i think yeah it will be nice to to come with maybe a sketch of of these if you can do slides it is even better but do not be that formal and we will try to at least build up one coherent proposal and we will merge it with the other one when the other one is available okay okay i will ask maggie and pierrette if they have any preferences that would be great 0 great that would be great perfect c that that of course is one of the main well not main but one of the important features that we need to know about yeah yeah no yeah since they are not at the meeting i think it is in out of courtesy we should 1st ask them yes and i will try to yes bu i ju just before finishing i mean we have a cafeteria or we do not eat at all fine we do not have cafeteria what do you mean by cafeteria exactly he means reading room a place n what we can take a coffee also what no there is no coffee in the reading room no yeah w we can bring your coffee in the reading room but that was the wrong we we did not have any money for buying the coffee machines so so so since maybe you are a part time here and part ti part time at e p f l there are at least 2 coffee machines in the building one at the 3rd floor one at the 1st floor but they close at 5 or and we can bring our coffee no automatic coffee machines ah okay no coffee machines okay okay so yeah no there is the cafeteria is downstairs but they close at 5 but in yeah yeah this huh 5 ah that is the main problem yeah but there is the 2 machines and they are the vending machines where you just put the money and and you can get yeah yeah vending machines and you can bring your coffee in the reading room okay okay yeah yeah maybe this is not a very bad timing could we try to meet next tuesday t to try the coffee wait next tuesday maybe at t maybe a bit later maybe at 110 clock wait wai wai wai wait wait wait next tuesday tuesday come on try try to be nice well well well well not so easy eh gi give me a reasonable date yes i ha i have no constraints so it is fine ch we have the do not forget we have the other meeting the m d m meeting in the morning so it would have to be in the afternoon yeah for me it is a good timing huh okay next tuesday we have a meeting yeah yeah exactly that might be where is the meeting it is unimail yeah okay so yeah yeah then it could be that at 930 but we could do we could have this meeting then in the afternoon that yeah that that would be great because that would allow us not to move or not to travel twice okay nah very well yep so about 20 clock would that be okay okay after lunch yeah after lunch yeah it is not a very demanding meeting so perfect okay right yep okay then let me close this and good luck for your arrangement games thank you
all right you want to be at same yeah thank you any specific position i will just sit there well andrew is just a few i will show some slides it is all very natural yeah it is a little strange like this way yeah i think it is not bad like this and do not forget the so hi everyone thanks for coming to this meeting well as you all know the topic of this morning is meeting is the fact that we are moving and we are going to get more space so that is a very good piece of news but we also have to find out how we use this space so if you want i will just give a brief overview of what is happening and then we can talk about well arranging the new office space office space so in case you have not seen the document let me just show you very briefly the configuration of the space so well there is nothing much to say well you know how many of us are present and you know that we are a bit tight actually in our present location that is why actually the university finally allocated us this part of the unimile building so it is at the 6th floor and its set of contiguous rooms as you can all see from here so the one p 2 3 p means the number of persons as you can see we have so a corridor with a number of rooms of one person one person rooms 2 person room and 3 person rooms actually i think agnes did this nice drawing so she even put the views so we have the old town on one side and the mountains on the other 2 sides we have some bathrooms for us and the courtyard which actually means a sort of shaft because the court is down at the 1st floor andrea just a clarification question are the number of people per room indicated strict or can we play around with i mean if there are 2 people is it really that you can not put 3 or 25 how was it well it is a bit difficult to say because in fact we have some constraints in terms of furniture they are here so well your question actually is answered maybe by the 3rd item so each person should get well it is a sort of desk it is made of 2 pieces and it looks like a corner with of course a chair a filing cabinet that goes under the desk and well we can put hanging shelves over the desks so i am not really sure it is possible to get 3 desks in a 2 person office but we could try what should be said here i do not know if well you i will maybe distribute now documents if you do not have them maybe it is easier do you need something martin i have everything i can keep this for you so it is it is yeah you have a copy susan you to david i think so in fact there are more places than people so we will not be that constrained as you know some of us and some of you here actually martin david are part time so it is for the moment quite comfortable normally we should even get an extra an extra place for you know temporary people coming to work on projects yeah i yeah i counted so we have 151st physical persons and about 16 i think persons 0 actually 18 persons in the offices yeah but counting the reading room exactly so one of the issues here it is probably not on the slides is that we would like to have unlike what we had until now a lounge or reading room in one of the offices so in one of the rooms do we really need that i think quite a lot of people expressed the need for that so if we could do it i think it would be much nicer let me also say something do not forget the time we spend to for discussions about that room so be able to valorize this yeah i think so we are not so we are not so large as far as space is concerned because 15 people to put in their 18 positions so to the best if you take 2 people room for the reading room then you have well 166 slots for 15 people so it is still should be feasible that also means that is the growth will be 0 yeah i think that is quite important to manage some space maybe we can think of yeah some 2 or 3 visit visiting people coming for exchange students etc okay so let me finish with the the constraints which are almost done so we also need to to find a spot for the photocopier the fax machine and the printer the fax you know is very small but the photocopier is quite huge and the printer is this size okay the offices come with whiteboards not very very important the furniture that each person has and you have a list of people so the thing you ought to know is that we are not the only ones that we are thinking that they are thinking about for well about putting people in these rooms there is another group that is also having discussions so the idea is that today will just sort of start seeing the main constraints and then you have time to go and think about it ask the people you know your assistance for instance and at the next meeting we will try to come with one solution the other group will also propose a solution and then there will be another negotiation and if we do not get this space then what happens if we do not get these well basically they are promised to us so they think there are chances that they take from us one of the rooms okay yeah i think it is no the chances might be that there are more people to put in that space yeah that is one of the problems i think maybe we should take this into account and maybe think of some of the bigger rooms with 4 people one being temporary or part time okay so maybe we could try to see now what would be the main options say the general well arrangement options do you think that we should put people say according to projects for instance in the table that we have we also have the the the main projects on which the people are working so how andrei sorry for interrupting but one again clarification question what is the real margin of maneuver that we have for these discussions because at least we are half percent 50% of from epfl and sometimes you have meetings where the decision is already taken so you can spend quite a lot of time discussing things so what will be the impact of what we will come up 0 actually what is fixed is the number of rooms this we cannot really change i mean at least not us it would be much more difficult to get another room for instance but what is absolutely not fixed is the arrangement of the people in the rooms so basically all the permutations are possible at the moment another way of asking the question is there any other group already working on how this should be allocated or are we the one that is supposed to do the position for it well what we are looking for is a solution that suits everyone and that makes the maximum of people happy so the other group is i do not think we have to see them as competitors but they are just trying to find another local optimum why do not they have any representative here yeah why did not we have a meeting together yeah another group and then andrea and english will discuss about it with a simple you are the representative of this group yeah i think that is yeah there is no real competition between the 2 but we will just try to find at least 2 solutions and see how close they are actually it is i think well the people who decided this thought it was the best solution to well you know find 2 kinds of opportunities opinions yeah well we could have been 8 sitting around here and and talking but i think it is it is more difficult but you know that that is a standard thing it is supposed that somebody for some strange reasons want to be in the corner and we do not know about that we will put them put her or him somewhere else then we will do plenty of work for nothing because we will not have this constraint well aware of this one is exactly i think so so today the goal is not to find a solution today but set some constraints and and then go and see the people and find out if they have any preferences obviously we will not be able to accommodate all the preferences but at least we will find the most important ones well certainly we have to ask pierrette and maggie since they are not here because they also have a lot of students that they have to see as we do and so that is another consideration too yeah i think so that is one of the things i think we know that they have students we do not know exactly if they prefer for instance to be alone to well to be with their assistant or even with another person working on the project so that would have been maybe another solution is to ask everyone to provide an arrangement but i think that is a bit hard then to work out so since all of you have a copy of the drawing i think for the next time maybe you could come with a concrete proposal with names on you it but let us try to see today whether we prefer to organize people say by projects or just professor and assistant so what would be say 1st your preferences since let us let us start with us maybe today what do you think about it would you prefer to be alone would you prefer to be with your assistant you who are part time do you think you can come here on a very well regular schedule or is it part time but that variable during the week yeah okay me personally i would like to share the room with assistance when you have problems of normal life like the printer does not work i do not want to ask this to my supervisor so it is better to be with an assistant to share the room and since you are coming only half time do you think you will be able to group your presence here say monday tuesday and wednesday day morning or is it going to be much more random i do not think it is a good idea to share to share the same desk okay i still would like to have my drawers and these things yeah i think so too so martin you are also half time and well the 3rd person is gisela i think it is quite clear that each person should have their own desk and yeah it is no no way we could put 2 persons at the same desk where part time is important is that it is an oval load on the room so for sure if you have a part time person that reduces the ranges of time where too many people in the room yeah i think i am concerned i probably might be able to have a kind of a regular presence here the the thing that in my case has to be taken into account is that i will have a lot of phone calls so i will be talking over the forum all the time so that is the not necessarily it depends on i have nothing against sharing an office with somebody i already did it before so it was perfectly fine it just has to be somebody who can work while somebody else is having phone calls in the room which is very much dependent on people some people are not disturbed at all by this some people just can not work are you disturbed by the phone calls of other people i am not okay but and what might happen but it it will not be so heavy here at isco is visitors so that i will have more at epfl typically students coming in or asking for things as i am not teaching here i am teaching at epfl this should not be a such a big load so for me it will be essentially i will not be i will not be able to be silent in the room because i will be communicating also through vocal means before talking more about individual preferences is there any possibility what they have done in the faculty of law for example that they actually split rooms and so we would take one of the 2 people rooms and split it and you would see that you would have the same size office but that would give the privacy insofar as in just about every other faculty in the building every professor has their own office and it is really it goes a bit far that we have to have this all the sharing so one option and that but that we would need to ask about if we could split one of the rooms you go for boxes for instance in the in the bigger rooms where you have like cubicles cubicles that does not really solve it i mean there is there is really a difference to have to have your own yeah and sometimes you have you need to have private discussions with somebody or whatever so i will try to find out whether we can separate i think for the moment the answer at least is no because it is not only well making a wall but also making a new door so it is quite a lot of work but i will try to find this out for the next time so at least for the moment as you can see there are i can show them here on the screen so there are these 2 rooms on the left that accommodate one person so at least some of the professors since you are 4 could go well take these rooms and quite a lot of rooms with 2 persons how do you feel susan about a professor sharing the room with her assistance of the one which is the most involved in the teaching well i think it is really a matter of personal preference as you know i prefer to have my own office i also have a lot of phone calls and have to see people and with the other work that i am doing with the rectorate that is really confidential information that i am treating so that i have to be really careful about too but it is a personal preference insofar as what we have had up until now both maggie and pietit have been happy to share with others so i mean i think that we should still check with them i fully agree with that it is much easier to me to foresee having 2 people of the same position sharing a room well not sharing with each other they would sharing with their students sorry because that is tricky because of confidentiality reasons as you said you you are discussing a budget on the on the project you over the phone typically you do not necessarily want to have somebody who will be dependent on that budget being part of the discussion so yeah that is that is true okay maybe we could look a bit that the projects do you think it is a good idea to put together in the same room as much as possible people from the same projects since they talk quite a lot of project does not last in time they will change it is great the only thing that will not that will change only progressively in time is the status of the people well yeah and some of the phd students will hopefully they will finish their phd at some point it is still something yeah and also some of our the people mentioned here are working on more than one project too so for example marianne the fin she is also working with me on the virtual campus project so that one was not mentioned i am not saying okay i necessarily want to be with her in the office but it is just to say people are working on sometimes more than one project if it if projects are what you have in mind i think that the meeting room is the tool for that you need to have people in a project talking together they just have a meeting room it is not too far away then that it is a very good well actually so the lounge could serve as some kind of meeting room but there are also more formal meeting rooms available in the building yes we now know that is why i was quite receptive to susan is remark at the beginning is i would not formulate it in such an extreme way as do we really need a lounge but i would probably formulate it in a way that we want to have only a lounge or something that can be used only as a reading room because because meeting rooms to me are very important tools to do collaborative work but on the other hand we need to relax yeah and i think also we need a separate discussion on the furnishing of the lounge well yeah we will skip that other topic no i the lounge okay but i think we need to also see it as an overflow place when we have visitors for any length of time so they actually have a place to work because that is really my one of my worries with the plan that we here is that it provides no possible possibilities of expansion and this will happen i mean you can not you can not prevent having visitors and you should not yeah yeah for the moment actually i think only one slot would be fully free that is for 15 people it is not enough yeah that means one visitor at the time or one intern yeah that is you have 4 professors here and and it is funny that we move to another building because we ran out of a space and we were have the same problem yes but we have more space here than what we currently have yeah it is already a progress and you are working i think yeah okay so one of the things i have to do for the next time is find out about the separations between rooms because this is related with security regulation as well i mean you can not just put walls in rooms yeah i think it is quite a heavy transformation of the building it is not necessarily heavy in terms of work it is heavy in terms of administrative authorization and okay i will try to find out and the other question is can we squeeze maybe 4 people in the or at least 4 places in the 33 p room i think so if you organize the desks in a in an intelligent way yeah hopefully visitors do not need as much say filing space or right that is the point yeah they do not have that many papers okay so that is i have to to ask so you do not really feel very strongly attached to this grouping by project idea no no because it can share their ideas across the project and say coffee machines made for that yeah yeah usually when newer assistants come they would like to share the room with someone that knows it is related with the project so he can that is proximity does not play a big role there can yeah they can the space is very small i mean all together and you do not need to discuss about the projects you need to discuss about where is the printer how do i get furniture i do not have a pencil where is the box with the pencils and so on this is not project related no if you look now at the current division of the offices for example bruno and agnes are sharing an office and they are working on totally different projects and they are just fine with that yeah i think that is going to be one of the main things we will have to ask is whether people have strong preferences either in staying with them one or in not staying are you aware of any strong constraints right now well there were but they sort of disappeared as of october when you know smoking woke in because before we were grouping the smokers and now that there is no smoking i guess that is not very important option okay yeah that is true so smoking is now no longer constrained well except for that maybe you do not even want anybody smoking on your balcony so yeah is it allowed to smoke inside an office if it is one person not anymore no it is not smoking in principle it is a it is a no smoking building you can smoke outside so you can go outside onto the balcony not even in the cafeteria no yeah that is new regulation for all of the 6000 students on the roof maybe on the balcony yeah so that normally there is that terrace there is no place inside the building no wow at the pefell is it is not smoking campus but there are some places still some places where smokers can survive but andre just recommend about your your previous request i do not think that anyone will provide you information such as who does not want to be with whom that is a typical output of research and expert systems these are the ways that you will never get but you can get them through a proposal so you propose a setup where people are with other people is and they will find politically correct ways to tell you that they do not want to have a view on the mountains but they prefer to have view on the old towns on the toilets they prefer to be in another we do have one constraint that is difficult which is mijsala because when she is there she is very noisy she is on the phone a lot it is just it is by the nature of her work that a lot of it is yes martin said also for him and yeah especially for her yeah she is the interface and so that is a problem you are right because because we do not have one person we do not have enough one person rooms for accommodating the admin place and if you put 2 persons or 3 persons for the admin space who else will you put in there because we do not have any system manager or we do not have we have only one half part half time admin and no other non researcher positions if i am not mistaken and this is really a piece of a problem maybe you could put some visitors but yeah i think very realistic in a in an i think putting gisela with the other admin of the school is not an option because we were not offered excellent idea yeah it would be nice why do not we ask about that okay i will try to find out but i can not put the researcher there that is just either you lose one position or you find another admin or a system manager yeah i mean there is certainly enough space down the hall with all of those offices that are where half of them are also half time and they are very underused okay well try but all these are say sort of difficult questions because they involve changing also the offices of the school and you know people just do not want to change in general let us see maybe we can find some temporary well at least a proposal for gisela so since the one person rooms are quite well sort of desired by a lot of people she should probably that is not sure to me there are 2 options possible it is either we can take one of the one person rooms for the admin because some of typically the professors have good reasons for sharing sharing either with a colleague or sharing with some of their one of their phd students in that case it is realistic then we could very very simply allocate one of the one person rooms for the admin and that would solve the problem the other thing is to take a 2 person room for the admin that could be the one close to the here in the center so the middle one here no no no the other one the one up yeah this one but then the question of what do we do with the 2nd position there remains fully open so i would be more of the opinion to see whether it is so evident that let us say at least the 2 full time professors that are here on the list we have one here but maggie is not present if they really and pierrette too yeah in pierrette if because of personal preferences they would be happy with a 2 person room which might or might not be the case i mean it is certainly not something that we should impose but we can ask yeah because in this case yeah gisela could take one of the 2 person rooms and the other place would be for some kind of visitor but it is not realistic neither i mean you have a foreign researcher coming visiting you and you will put him in the admin office 0 okay you will not do that i mean maybe you can do that with an exchange student yeah or an intern people yeah you can not take a senior visitor and sit him in the secretary we invite a gal and we say okay you can sit with gisela yeah okay okay so this sets a bit the stage for gisela then yeah we will try to find out actually yeah maybe we should remind that quite a lot of professors at the school actually share their office with their assistant so it looks like sort of an implicit tradition maybe not to be followed except for in every other faculty okay yes is that so yes it is so every other faculty as far as i have seen their offices and the people that i know and that is in law socioeconomics okay they all have their own office i mean and the law faculty at best they are half done as we said it is really a matter of personal preference it cannot be something else can be imposed for sure okay so i think well this sets a bit the stage could we try so could you try please to do you want an extra piece of paper maybe try to well think on your own and then talk a little bit just to the people around you again andre i think that the only realistic way we can do is to speak for for ourselves i can tell you according to what i know now where i would like or would be ready to be but i really do not see how i could decide for maggie or pierrette or whoever else on the list no the point was to try to well just talk to them to david could we do it like for the setup of meetings you everyone receives that and should provide yeah i would like to be here and then you have this multi constrained problem and you work during 2 hours and so would you ask people just for their place or also for the other people is place that is the important thing you want to know what about the cafeteria i mean we are going to pay us a cafeteria with a projector and all this all together it is all together it is not a cafeteria but that is an open question at the origin it was supposed to be a pure reading room for relaxing reading the newspapers etc etc there has been a very long discussion about that i think this discussion is still vivid that some of the people i belong to these people would like to have a mixed room where you can have a reading room for sure but also a meeting room if necessary or as susan said a room an emergency room where you can put some visitors in a decent environment for work because you do not have any other place to do it but that is really an open discussion i think no decision no final decision has been taken about that okay then for the next time try to come up either with your own preferences that is quite easy probably to state now that you know the constraints or if you can poll a little bit the people around you that would be i mean the one that i do not want to have in the next room well just discuss yeah for instance i mean no no i was thinking just ask people around you what they think about this and i think yeah it would be nice to come with maybe a sketch of these if you can do slides it is even better but do not be that formal and we will try to at least build up one coherent proposal and we will merge it with the other one when the other one is available i will ask maggie and pierrette if they have any preferences that of course is one of the main well not main but one of the important features that we need to know about yeah since they are not at the meeting i think it is it and i will try to we should 1st ask that just before finishing i mean we have a cafeteria or we do not need at all we do not have a cafeteria it means me we can take a coffee also there is no coffee in the reading room yeah we can bring your coffee in the reading room we do not have any money for buying the coffee machine so since maybe you are part time here and part time at epfl there are at least 2 coffee machines in the building one at the 3rd floor one at the 1st floor and we can bring your coffee no automatic coffee machines so yeah no there is the cafeterias downstairs but they close at 5 that is the main problem yeah but there is the 2 machines and they are the vending machines where you put the money in and you can bring your coffee in the reading rooms yeah maybe this is not a very bad timing could we try to meet next tuesday next tuesday maybe at maybe a bit later maybe at 110 clock wait wait tuesday come on try try to be nice give me a reasonable day we have no constraint so we have we have the other meeting the mdm meeting in the morning so it would have to be in the afternoon okay we have a meeting yeah exactly that might be where is the meeting it is you email yeah okay so yeah yeah then it could be at 930 but we could do we could have this meeting and in the afternoon okay that would be great because that would allow us not to move very well so about 20 clock would that be okay after lunch after lunch it is not very demanding meetings so okay perfect then let me close this and good luck for your arrangement games thank you you are not using the tent you know that they can track the time those that they can track the time but you were not using it no i will tell you one okay i am sorry