i mean if you are ever you know late cause of that it is not we will find a way around it yeah it says yeah and i have put you guys on mondays at this time for my convenience but it is not like it is important that yeah well i was expecting to get yeah though and i did did make it in time but it just just cause all the leaves and things the stra the trains were not stopping at the stations so they decided to put speed restrictions on really is it sliding past i really yep yeah great cause apar apar apparently p i am not sure i was th so what would they have to do back up the and they are busing people into station have particular problems on it cause it is on a cause it is on a hill or something so i had so i had to bus people in from like stations either side ah nasty yes yes but yeah at l at least it was speed restrictions instead of like trains flying past into barriers and things so yes yeah yeah go i we are glad they will look after that bit 0 f yeah okay i do not know do we want to look at anything it is not up yet still 56% completed i can skip it cause i am just doing a b yeah disk check or something 0 i do not know what it is doing oops that fell off does not like silk stay and now we are going to discover we have got no reason to meet right yep cause everything is going swimmingly is everything going smooth well you know apa pa apart from apart all apart from waiting for the get get camtasia sorted out 0 cause i have not been i have not read the wikis in my email since i left so yeah i have not i have not added anything to the wiki recently so cause i have we have been been working on trying to get the x m l stuff working so some the ba basically they only had to how the dom works so i can do the next so i can ge generate d d f files 0 yeah huh huh so so th yeah so just just been reading through documentation that is what i was doing the end of last week just so i know how it all works and figuring out the best way to do things huh but i am at the moment i have i have been playing with the dom stuff in mozilla cause i cause ju just so at least i can see how it works with the h t m l pages so i can generate the x so i can generate x h t m l stuff and see how it all works there just cause to just see how things work in that and the 0 well i do not know the mozilla stuff so if it turns out that it is idiosyncratic in some way that teaches you funny habits then it will not have been a good idea it well thing is that the a the a well the a p i is standardized by the w 3 c so so the a p i is stan is standard between everything yeah yeah well y th there are certain companies that i do not want to name who do not always get it right or i c but m yeah mozilla yeah it will be alright yeah yeah yeah so okay it is it it just has a couple of yeah yeah i believe you now it is a good strategy well yeah but if they will b but it doe does look like it does does that this is and things like that so i was doing the is anyway it is ju it is just that that is that is quite a quick way to just to get into how how works because i can just quickly generate quickly generate a web page and then just add and take yeah add things to and take things away and do not see exactly what is going on at the time so wh why does it help that it is x t h t m l instead of just x m l 0 well just cause x h t m l has a nice you know you got browsers there so you can actually see you can actually see directly what is what is going on yeah but most m most browsers when when you put an x m l file up in it it will just apply some default style sheet to it anyway that shows you yeah well i will i am using x h t m l to deter that is all all the web pages are x h t m l so it is x m l just with the h t m l d t d okay yeah yeah ju ju ju just ba just cause we have not we have not f have not quite finalized the the g d f format so just just well just okay so all you are going to have to do is swap in tag names later yeah yeah so all have to do is just change it change that sort of thing so it is yeah okay ev everybody has got their different ways of doing these things yeah i am sure that is fine like having to g it is as long as it comes out in the end that is yeah yeah yeah no i am just try i am trying to l think of the things that could go wrong but since i have not tried it this particular way you know but yeah that sounds good yeah yeah but so i so you say we have not finalized what the g d f looks like is that an implicit request for me to do something or that what what what what i am doing the moment i am looking through the s the stuff that robin put on the wiki to say what is you know what what we need in the in the t in the output format for the for the task you know so what what you are what you are going to do the analysis on so i am making sure that i can take get that information out of the g d f as it saint state of the moment and if i find something that you can not get out of it then i can add that to the add that to the g d f format huh yeah so as a well i mean there is 22 cases in here right there is things you can get straight off the original format and then there is things you have to do some kind of post processing of the original format but it is not just a data format change it is actually some kind of computational process to get the thing out of it as well right yeah yeah and it was not y i think it was a little bit confused last time we spoke about whether u whether you consider g d f format to be the thing that is just the straight forward translations of what is in the original eye tracking output or whether like whether the post processing utilities are a separate step cause i think you and i had separate different views on this but i can not remember w who had which view at this point yeah well the so y are you working actively on this anal these analysis things or you just working on the translation so the data format translation well i am i am i am ju try i am making sure that the g d f format we have got at the moment will d will output say well i have output old analysis that that robin is looking for so so i am using that as a way to to get into ha ha using the dom things as well so yeah so at the moment i am looking at act actually the g d f format itself and then to generate the g d f format i am going to be taking stuff out of the gest analyser and then using a dom parser to generate x m l output from the gest analyser 0 okay so you have not looked at what is in there and what is not in there that you need to do some really intensive transform to do no not yet 0 okay no but i will when and out of the output of the gest analyser does does do some of the processing already which is what i will m plan to use that as the basis for it cause that already that already picks up like target regions things like that yeah so you get so so it knows whether you are looking at a part or whether you are looking at target area or what or whatever huh so yes as long as it got that in it somewhere so it is just a matter of pulling that out and put that into the into the g d f stuff okay so this sounds like it is under control and you are happy and you guys are telling each other what you guys need to know so i do not need to do anything right nope do not think so you are all fine but there was a number of things that came before this right that it sounds like they are not under control yet so so you know the g d f stuff with so i ellen is view on this is we go through everything in order like the priority is exactly the pipe line order right yep so camtasia you mentioned yeah bu and i am not sure what else but we should check what other things were before this on the list of things to do yeah yeah i i think the 0 the only thing i have got left to do before the experiments can be run is get s is get the check camtasia works now i have got camtasia running on machines and i think they are set up correctly but i can not test it until we get the microphones working until you get the 0 microphones microphones cause it is batteries we are waiting for the they are they are due i i was told the beginning of this week batteries okay are they really really strange batteries th they are quite strange it is w r a avril has ordered them from somewhere possibly have you tried maplin are they expensive n no they are probably 150 each or something like that cause you know like a wee bus journey over to maplin might solve the problem if it is getting in the way well hopefully the they should have been here last week but caroline then phoned up to chase them and they they were s they were told to be here should be today so this is not actually ruining your schedule for anything and that is why you are waiting r b well we can still test whether camtasia runs anyway it is just the whether it is the microphones are picking up things correctly that we need to check right okay it is i so it sounds like you are not actually worried about the fact that this is the m yeah not yet no when you get worried go to maplin okay right phone them 1st to make sure that they are in there somebody around must have a probably steve somebody in the techie group will have a maplin catalog right 0 fact i will see if i can yeah it is useful to know who has got a current one anyway i do not seem to get them anymore i guess i do not buy enough equipment ah well he must some these days anyway is not it so so 0 yeah of course duh so you can find out whether they have it virtual but you would have to phone over to find out if they have it in stock down there yep i actually live not that far from there so it would be a half hour diversion from my morning routine to pick up stuff right w but then again it is also very close to haymarket so it is even less of a diversion for you probably but what we are yeah so we all got off easy except you do not know your way around yeah ah well ca i can easy i can easy get to mapl to maplin i know where it is off i used to live there ah yeah so i know i know where i used to live here 0 yeah c yeah i i i am a geek i know where i know where maplin is yeah i just think well you know for the sake of 3 quid or however many quid it how many batteries does this thing take does not take a 100 it no it is 2 batteries we need yeah then you know put your mind at rest cause you know you would not want it to be the morning you were supposed to be recording and then suddenly discover yeah no no yeah no you know this yes well i suppose i could gi i could give you a call on the way in tomorrow and if th not bi it is not been in your in your f pigeon hole i can easy go off the train and early and just pick em up from there fair fair enough if you want check they got em 1st though their stocks are a bit funny down there right yeah well i will make sure i make a i will make sure of i got the f the phone number in my phone so i can call them cause you know it is not that attractive an area to walk through if you are not going to get anything out of it all true true it is dalry road is not it so of all the things that were on the wiki do i need to pull up the wiki ah it is going to let me log in it is still probably even that angle no i do not want to change my password but you guys probably know off the top of your head is there anything else that we we we were waiting on before you could run can not remember the wiki d so all those tasks craig had when it started the only thing that well the thing that is holding s me slightly up is checking whether joe is f finished that there i there is a working model builder but i am not sure if it is the finished finished version yet and the the ninth his last day was the 31st of october yeah he still had n hours left i was not sure if it was down to the number of hours or whether 31st of october f certainly he right yeah no no it is ours yeah it is ours 0 so he has got ours left i think he is had something like 7 he is behind hand but no he was billing for he was billing by the hour so i thought well i mean obviously if he wants to finish off then you know but n i have n ni nijmegen has gone dead for all those last 2 weeks 0 well they are probably away then well it w e e ellen is away was not ellen away they are really at the same place n no but i think what they had was some big review 0 yeah it could be it a and so i have not heard anything back from them so the models for 0 you have no models at all 0 that is a pity model buil builder that is what i was calling the graphical model editor right yes huh so you use x fig to make the parts and then you this thing well no well we do not need to make the the parts are all the standard tangram ones i had before anyway the x fig thing is only when we come to building airplanes and new peculiar shapes 0 okay but for this experiment it is just the tangram type task yep okay i have something in my email about from joe yep he would not have sent it just to me would he do you want me to check that yeah if you got right i am not going to project my email how r f how recently that nothing i have not i heard anything from joe for a a week or so anyway i t i would say you do not be so okay i think i mighta heard thursday or something i can not remember exactly when it was yeah that is that is newer than the it is the last thing was in sp response to the thing i was saying last week about the parallelogram being the wrong way around and w from the model builder to the actual yeah yeah yeah screen shots yeah yeah that nothing has i have not heard anything since from either sort of the netherlands or from you okay so i have got something on the 28th 0 that is friday i think 0 he just wants to know how to get paid yep right that suggests he is done done done anyway he is in edinburgh so well i suppose he will not come by cause craig is on his desk 0 is he back 0 is he yeah 0 no right okay so well i am i am using dice machines if he wants to pop in for 5 minutes the the windows machine is free for him at the moment well he is just not going to try to le squat there that is all well i so the last thing i have got from him about work work was the 19th of october that said he uploaded some changes that you wanted that is 0 so you did not get that it was me and him but presumably the he put it on the wiki so so he is just telling us cause he things we probably do not read wikis and i will just check yeah it was after it was after that that there was the thing about w w why the parallelogram was the was a mirror image yeah yeah i mean i considering we get an email from the i think it got sent through saying that he would updated the the whatever it was on the wiki so you do he would he would uploaded a ne a new zip file and overwritten the old one yeah so well i i have not replied to him about yeah i really do not have anything more more recent from him s i have not replied to him about you know how to submit costs and stuff like that so but that suggests he is at at the end of things but w we could just ask him i mean maybe you guys would just want to ask him directly you are done done right cause it is worth you guys knowing and then of course any problems that remain you inherit right you know it is worth taking a look at what it does and making sure it does what you want i guess yep so th the problem is you want you wanted to construct some models in it for your experiment but you were hoping to get some from marloes yes yes or at l least she was meant to have have some idea of the level of complexity cause they d they d have actually run things and to get an idea of the sort of style and to check that they would be alright ah yeah yeah but all very quiet right have you you tried cold calling her that is what i do when i need things that yeah no it has just been email rather than f f the telephone type of request ach try phone but when i if you get em today when are you going to start running i am down for a week what is the 7th is a w a week today i think 0 right next week so you have to be you have to be ready by then well i have not booked anybody in or anything yeah or re change the schedule but that is when i am hoping right okay we have been of course put back a bit by the eye tracker going down huh yeah makes sense subjects you are going to have d yep but we are we are needing we are certainly needing some data in the bag by the 1st of december i think yeah so s y y you do not have subjects lined up but you do not expect any trouble getting them no hopefully not the only other slight complication is which will be b i think brought up at the meeting on thursday for all the eye tracking users yeah the lab has been block booked again by jules from psychology i do not know this person so they well they need to be serious about it have di who who is their is that a staff member or a student yep okay well we kinda paid for the lab so it depends but i suppose talking to them sometimes solves these problems you might it depends on what sort of staff member is it is it a lecturer right i mean presumably he or she is not running subjects the entire well presumably not but it is sort of quite solidly booked for f certainly w what 6 days from 10 till 5 for 2 or 3 of those days block book for how long huh huh so ellen is still out of town right it is just y you could try calling this person and see how this works ellen might be more persuasive it is just sometimes academic staff have a bit of a chip about research staff and since i do not know the person i can not tell whether it is one of those or not i would not i no i can probably at least email her and ask her if she is really needing it all that time yeah and then escalate i guess but you know or whether they can be put off for a little bit or something so i have no idea how the booking system works well you are discussing it on thursday right i i well yeah at the m yep at the moment there is just a booking system yeah when people just if they can log on to it can book it yep well that is that is one to raise at the meeting i v might talk to ellen about that ahead of time cause they may have she and martin may have had discussions about appropriate use of the lab i th in theory jast is meant to have it every morning 0 really yeah but i g do not you guys set up for is not block booking more appropriate because i i is not there set up involved in changing around for somebody else but it there should not be any changes in the physical connections or or anything no or in the software or anything no okay so there is no cost associated with it being mornings or afternoons no that as long as p other people do not for some reason i do not know disconnect some bits of the equipment there is no reason why they should yeah it is just the s so in the worst case you may be able to make an argument if you actually need that week that you can collect in the mornings that week is this something that is known outside ellen is head yes it is it is on the p it is not on the booking system it is on the w booking system it is on a web page that frank created about the lab 0 well that is something which i do not know if anybody actually knows is there huh well most the time to to p yeah yeah so it sounds like you have got a lot of possible ways of getting what time you need of course try to be kind to other people but you would anyway yep so so those are the only things that are worrying you camtasia and lab access and otherwise no sweat you are happy should should be i have also got to get camtasia we well yes the m the model builder 0 and the model builders yeah i have got to get camtasia working as a sort of little multi media thing to generate a video of how to mi sort of a an instructional video 0 yeah h huh yeah these this is going to take a little while it is what i will have to do this week yeah well when the whole thing was if it was going to run a trial that will give you some some screen shots to work with and then it will just be a matter of adding new video f mouse movements or whatever so yeah but you were going to try and figure out how to overlay something on top of the video that or no u you were just g really going to run a video of the sep of the trial yep yeah yeah okay that is that is much easier so with the model builder what do you need to do with it th the which one you is going to look at what it does so far and you will just t try out do that i will i will do that yeah and just yeah yeah have a look if you th anything prob any problems with it think there is a wiki page up for that f for that piece of for yeah for that thing so if if you just put just put whatever recommendations bugs on that page and i will work through them read em as and when i can have a look at hopef hopefully there is not a p a problem yeah but they said marloes was also meant to be checking it and doing things and quiet yeah huh yeah yeah how many models were you relying on her for i have i it has not been divided up in that sort of way so are you suddenly going to be well what i am trying to get at is is your start time going to be delayed cause you do not have the models ready if she does not come through but depends how quickly i manage to get a grip of it how long it takes me to generate them or how i get on with the camtasia huh yeah well yeah un unsure of yet can you draft craig in to build some if necessary and like these yeah i mean i have used the software and there is not that hard i mean it it should not the there should not be any great problems just checking that the they are of a suitable level of complexity or or of whatever yeah yeah well you know me contingency planning and all this i always worry about the worst yeah yeah no quite quite right if yeah so yeah yeah so well i can not imagine the building the building the mold is going to be that hard i mean i can easily just well however many 1000s are on that dutch web site you found just you know pick pick some of them redo them in in the ja in the j c d format that is yeah it is pretty mechanical i can easily d easily do that so but it is a matter of choosing which ones you need to do yeah which i guess you have to do well i was hoping for some feedback from yeah well yeah yeah well you need to you you and marloes need to sort out yeah yeah exactly you can call a jast telcon between you and marloes you know i if it is not that see you know with the cold calling you can usually at least find out whether they are alive and get an an offer to to get something yes but you know the next the next escalation is saying no we really need to talk about this we are going to talk about it you know tuesday at such such a time unless you yep book a time and i think so right well i will try and get ahold of her again today and see what but presumably whatever it is they have been going through is now over i think it it was up till the end of october so presumably today they are now free again yeah or taking a week off to recover i d yes i would just hate for that to c to slow you up in collecting stuff that is all well hopefully it it will not anyway it is just if i then do it i hopefully will get the right models obvious yeah okay that is true that is that is the pro so it will be generated well that sounds it is whether the models are optimal or not that i think that is right that is quite a small thing she can do for you i guess you know it is not like you know w sitting there brain deadly constructing you know some models that she needs to do it is just to provide advice about this which must take take less time yep well that all sounds fine you guys worried about it you worried about anything we have mostly been talking about the experiment schedule so i do not think do not think so i mean so the the major thing i have got to d got to do is get this camtasia sorted out so just waiting for the batteries for that if robin is not worried i am not worried you are going to run out of things to f do that we have not set you up for any time soon p the g d f sounds like it might take a wee while yeah yeah cause i will go got to finalize that format and then once that is done i have got to start looking at the analysis side of it well so it was the whole all the dynamic region part of it that is and that is yeah yeah but you do not need anything from me for that cause that is already sorta speced i mean again that is the pair of you yeah yeah i think yeah no the the analysis i think the analysis will take a little while i do not think it is going to take that long to get its stuff sorted out it is going to be how to display it and all that sort of stuff whatever makes it easiest for you to do yeah but once w it is just what i am worrying it w worried about is him being in the lab all day long and you not being sure like what to do for the analysis on or something cause you are going to be completely unavailable when you are recording or will there be times when you do not record all day n no well it depends how how many i can book in and get get running huh yeah and before my brain melts it but w when when the experiment is running yeah it is i will be in the lab yeah i can not just go in let them get start and then come back cause he might 0 yeah no no no i understand that it is so some people can but it was it was more like 0 it was more like you know you so this week he has got you know the g d f stuff to do then next week you are planning on recording and what happens if suddenly you are unavailable all of next week just when he runs out of work th they will certainly be time because i am right next to the lab anyway i will come back just to check my email and things anyway so yeah yeah so so we will worry about it then yeah yeah yeah so i still got to work on the gest analyzer and turn that into the t into a g d f outputter and 0 yeah and i will i can have a look at the model builder as well yeah cause one thing i am thinking about is w we are looking at the the part building pa type stuff yeah and it might worth seeing if we can add a little part builder thing into the model builder just just the ju i just got to tidy tidy up some the code for generating the parts anyway the j c t parts from from s v g s what i do do not know is we want to bother with a part builder i mean the idea was it was not worth the investment right yeah yeah yeah but i will want to have a qui have a quick look and see see how easy it is to add this things to it cause if if i can use it to generate the rotsym angle for example and the rotation symmetry stuff for it yeah yeah yeah which is what was causing the bugs before or do y so if i if i can use the model builder to automatically do that then that would sa that would save quite a bit of work and it will d save a few bugs m yeah but now now that the guy building these models know that they need to do the rotsym some stuff so do they have do you have trouble doing it no no so no it is it is just something you got to remember once the part has been built so yeah well g i mean we might want to severely cash limit the investment that you put into making a part builder right yeah yeah well i am not not not pl not planning do much on that so how how many person days would it be worth like if craig discovered it could be done in x days it is just i would not bother more than one or 2 certainly right so there is your limit do not spend more than a day or 2 on it yeah yeah cause it really is not worth it i mean i have i have already i have already got this yeah you you have to understand there is things about this project we have hidden from you so far that you will have to learn about yeah other i saw saw saw saw something about map task like little further down my task list so it is it is not like you are out of work 0 really 0 that one will just be a little add on that will whatever it is it will be the same skills as you have learned for something else right and it will just be i am not even sure that is you cause i think somebody else is doing that actually but i am thinking more of the fact that at some point we should probably tell you about this n x t stuff right so yeah well that that is that is just x m l to x m l to x m l is not it w turning g d f and what other bits into n x t 0 yeah yeah yeah but you know there is x m l and x m l and you know yeah yeah it takes stand off links and stuff and it is some some people if they are not used to linguistic annotation c it c take a little time to get their head around the way the do data data model works right right and you know there is stuff to learn there yeah cause that is the yeah 0 other than you have from what i have heard about it is both x m l so so the the programming side of it does not sound too hard it is going to be making sure that it fits what you expect out of the format yeah yeah so but no that is that is fine yep so i will d i will have try to find i will i will have plen plenty of plenty of questions for you once i once i get to the last stage i am sure yeah so just do not witter away you know weeks on fripperies when we have got the real me meat of this yet to come yeah we will find we will find plenty of really really crucial s things for you to do yeah i do not think you will be twiddling your thumbs no so yeah we will yeah well the we are going to get camtasia sorted out this week and then it is concentrate on the on the gest analyzer the g d f stuff and then yeah once once we have done that it is whatever whatever you whate whatever you whatever you want me do once i done the once i have done the g d f i guess okay so i will remind myself to look at what is next before the next time we get together yep yeah so i think the g d f will keep me busy for a little while yet so yeah well that is yeah certainly keep me busy until this time next week when we can start suggesting things that might might need to look at for the next stage i guess yeah so you collect on monday that means you do not want to meet right well at 120 clock next monday the lab is technically booked by jules 0 r right it is actually next week it is actually the week that you were planning on it it starts the on we this wednesday and goes through to next wednesday 0 okay well i do not know anyway you will tell me whether it we cancel this or whether i just talk to craig in which case we will not be up here cause we do not record 2s yep okay what else yeah my then other complication is 2 weeks tomorrow i start my teaching 0 yeah that should be fun let us see that is like the for i have got 2 weeks of that fo 4 lectures and 4 labs yeah that comes at an ideal time for you then yes that is like the 20th or something i can not add what is tomorrow is the f tomorrow the f 1st monday is the for the 1st yeah so it will be the 15th for 2 weeks yeah yeah actually yeah that reminds me i wo wo i wo i will not be on thursday i am going to be over in my induction day 0 you have got your induction that is right so so 0 yeah you have to promise to tell us how that is cause people do ask me fair enough fair enough i mean i do not it is meant to be that in depth yes from a total waste of time to you know it is yeah on a scale of one to 7 yes yes i mean i d i do not expect to be that in depth i mean it is 15 minutes on a variety of different topics so it is just it is it is yeah yes it is i am sure most of it i already know it is like fire safety yeah health safety data protection usual sort of stuff you get everywhere so it is probably the university will cover itself legally i think by doing this yeah you would be surpri these things do yeah well if they were going to do that then they would force you to go to it yeah no i suppose rather than being nobody is bothered so far is it i would and i would know somebody who had gone to know you know i am pretty sure they did not have induction in my day yeah so well i do not remember being asked for an induction so really but you only started here in april they were supposed to i am sure yeah i mean i can remo i got invited to a a a a summer garden party for new staff members but that was but that is all 0 well yeah i can remember when i start being a saint when i was sta starting being a student i mean ha we had the inductions were compulsory because a lot of students were doing te were doing teaching and you could not do the teaching unless you done the induction because you had to know about health and safety and fire safety before you could take a charge of yeah 0 yeah cause you were the responsible person in the in the class room so so but yeah i am not sure i am not sure why the why why i am doing it now yep but okay so see how it go i will i will give you my report on friday or something i have one n x t question which hopefully will not be well it is not one okay just hopefully as part of the output it will be something like that is that correct so you have got the gaze position of the 1st person gaze position of the 2nd mouse position of the 1st mouse position of the 2nd and i do not know a common mouse action there or something yeah does that t just in in sort of layers like that seems reasonable so it will be like in monitor but yeah they will all be different tiers like that yeah yep and then there is the language stuff as well presumably yes huh m that is that is just the the eye movement other sort of stuff yeah yeah this is the easy stuff yeah well eyes and mouse eyes and mice huh and that is enough for you right i mean that is just the way you want it it ho hopefu hopefully that is yeah i guess it is that is why i dre course there are lot lots of things that can do that but it is the language part that is the hard part as well yeah yeah yeah so i was just yeah i was just checking that i know the language part because they say l p here but this would be the the the new part yeah that is new stuff that seems fine yeah yeah do you know what the the sets of codes are well the whatev whatever whatever you are getting out of the jast analyser so yeah whatever that is i mean blinks as well right yes i am not sure whether we need to know exactly where they are just how many there are in each tra p i do not know 0 so you do not want a pa part of this data i suppose it could go in aye but i mean i suppose it we are as well to have it if we can i think you i think you should well there is 2 views on this if you do then the people formulating research questions will ask about them right but if you do not they will probably ask about them anyway and then you will have to add em after the fact so it is probably easier just to s shove em in well just say stick em in anyway you can stick em in a different track and and then load em or not load em as you please yeah cause it is not well i do not know with is it is it part of so th these are mutually exclusive and exhaustive sets of codes against time right is not blink a part of this blink would at the moment just get lumped in with the sort of previous gaze yeah but but is not that important because when they are blinking basically it is like an a nil code you c can not find out what they are doing otherwise the way they are looking so it may actually be important to have the blinks registered in there because you may discover you need to take them into account to smooth some kind of analysis that you are doing so it could be that if they only they had not had a blink just then they would have been i do not know what m yes moving somewhere else or is more likely to be i am thinking more blinking at the same time as the other person was doing something i think to that you want to know about yeah 0 i hope n not to much relies on missing stuff cause people blink i was thinking more like you know the person looks a p a part and they have got a fixation before and after and there is blink in the middle and you know there may be times when you want to treat that as one thing right yes norman normally would be just as i say like add the blink time and duration to the previous fixation 0 right okay so but in that case cause you are not absorbing any new information and that is what the critical sort of deciding factor is right huh in that case then these tiers are already like blink corrected yes so that they will include the and then you would not have blinks as part of this you would want blinks as a separate tier if you are going to have it in so i i yeah would ha it would be as a separate tier where just to mark yeah the actual position yeah so the key thing is he here is mutually exclusive and exhaustive and the 2nd key thing is it better be really clear to the people who are dealing with these codes w yeah what is included and what is n yeah whether any monkey business has been done around the blinks to correct for that cause you know it would not necessarily be obvious looking at that set of codes that no not certainly l not looking at codes no yeah i suppose if you know about eye trackers then you will just know but huh okay know what to look for and what not to yeah so so that mean you need the blink corrections part of the analysis then it i think you are just saying it comes out of the eye tracker already right i there are well they are already identified as blinks they are already blink corrected then it is i it is at th at what stage the software that i have used p pools the blinks so will add it on i am not sure what the default right so tha tha that is that is for the rest of the stuff that comes the eye tracker is not the analyzer software that comes the eye tracker yes yeah so i am not su i certainly it is listed as a separate event in the stream blinks are a tag from the e d f and and that sort of thing right it is registered as a a detection right okay well i i if if you want if you want the blinks mer merged into a fixation but it might worth making making a cr part of the requirement for the g d f stuff so to remind me so to to just add that analysis to yeah to to it so it is i mean it is easy enough to do just che just checking the times th times of the events yeah i y yeah i mean it it it will not because of the fixation it will be down to what we define as a gaze so basically the time from when somebody starts looking at an object until they leave it and so if they blinked a lot within that they are still looking at that object so it is just the time in to the time out right yeah okay okay but what we need to know is like at what stage in the eye tracking stuff where it does that and whether that gets through so that craig gets it automatically in what he is translating or to g d f yep whether he needs to redo the same analysis because something about the data path cuts off that analysis for the eye tracker or whether we even like it right and want to do it some different way some other way yeah yeah cause i think the ascii format as it stands does contain blink information cause d d i am sure i am sure that is appeared in the in the documentation i have read through yes yep there is a blink sort of event yeah but it could be these things are corrected for blinks in this way plus there is blink information so you know it it treats it as a fixation around blinks and it also just happens to tell you where the blinks are possibly possibly yeah cause as they were saying they like to use blink rate as measures of cognitive difficulty or something so right okay okay yeah so might might worth us us having a look at that and just just seeing what dat is what data is already in the ascii format and whether you want me to do any correction as part of the analysis yep cause i have got to do the analysis for the fixations on parts and things anyway so yeah i d i i i did not think check for blinks during that is not going to be a should not be a big problem it should just be a matter of treating a b adding on the blink to the last fixation or something anyway yeah yep so we will be if they are not still fixating on it when they come back out of the blink then why is that is that the right thing to do analytically well the the real reason is as long as they have been blinking even if they then open their eyes somewhere else that is when they start absorbing the new information 0 right yeah you said that it is basically like a just a long saccade it you kind of have visual suppression when you move and it is the same when you are blinking you are not taking anything in so well but does the duration of fixations count for anything cause it if you are just adding the length of the blink to the fixation you are not treating it as a saccade it it is yeah that yes that is for the sort of gaze time measure it is not actually the fixations are still independent so the they w fixation duration is not does not include the blink in the ascii a output okay it is only when we start looking at sort of the total gaze that the total amount of time spent looking at one particular object wait which includes all these sort of multiple fixations and any blinks and that sort of thing okay is it it is a a sort of composite viewing time i kinda get this yeah yeah right so more complicated than i thought yeah i am afraid i would forgotten about the multiple fixations on an object yeah okay and so are you looking for a final thing that just sort says between this time and this time you are looking at this object between this time this time you are not looking anything yep yep and although we will also still need a count of the fixations just so we can have you you have got measure fixation duration again just to s see if those they spend longer just f amount of more stable move eye fixation or not yeah yeah cause i think i think at the moment the g d f format has fixations in it so so i gue i guess that would be part of the g d f to transformation would be turning fixations into gazes and whatever else yep to ye yeah okay okay viewing times well tha tha do not do not worry about that just the moment well it is not okay i mean this is kinda what we were talking about before this confusion about what is in the g d f but i mean you might see it as the initial g d f is just whatever straight forwardly translates without you know without transforms with just the data format changing from the ascii and then there is a bunch of other things that get added that you might still want to be in augmented g d f format you know like this blink and the gaze and whatever else and then you translate to n x t so you might still want to have everything in this one g d f file format that represents everything and then the n x t thing is just a splitter it is not doing any fancy analysis right yeah so i see this as you know a bunch of little routines that take the the g d f without this information in it and add new information into th sub script versions of the g d f file that contains these post process analyzes well that is partly why i brought this up now is it i am not sure what point down the data path things sort of happen but that is what i want out in the end right yeah right so so so w will you actually be doing much of the g d f or is are you expecting do most the analysis on out of the n x t stuff then so whe when you when you actually generate your results well the n x t stuff will have the more complete picture cause it will include combine all the linguistic stuff with all the movements and the actions yeah right but there will be i suppose just some purely eye movement stuff we could do i s presumably with g d f yeah yeah c well yeah you told that earlier cause you could do a quick ana you could do a quick analysis on the g d f stuff without having to before you hit before you do the dialog analysis type stuff so you can get some some results anyway can not you yeah i mean it to some extent it does not matter which data format it is in n x t or g d f okay yeah but it makes more sense for the converter between g d f and n x t not to add any data all it does is do this this stupid data format conversion and it it is just you know separating it out in the little steps so you know there have to be these other scripts that add any data transforms not data format transform forms but data transforms like this idea of of putting together gazes from fixations so y you know i if we keep it simpler like that so that it is in little pieces then it will be just easier to understand w what the wh the whole thing does right okay okay cause you you c you know i if suddenly you discover there is a problem with the g d f to n x t transform c you want to know whether it is one of these little post processes going wrong or whether it is just the thing that dumps it into the multiple files for the and g d f to n x t transform is c is pretty simple an so you know right and yeah that is also why i sent you the saarbruecken software f that the stuff that takes the ascii sort of format originally and then just sort of compresses it and things 0 yeah yeah the germans do not yeah yeah yeah yeah the german stuff because that little utility does things like t well but you can tell it to what to do with blinks whether just to lump them in or or not 0 yeah what the minimum fixation duration for a stable fixation would be sort of you have if it picks up t fixations less than say 50 milliseconds you can tell it just to again lump them all together that is not a sort of reliable enough fixation fair enough fair en you can put in these sort of of things so that is that is a bit of software that is sent and that includes the source code and things as well yeah so so they they we are allowed to do whatever without without source code there is no c sort of restrictions on that fair enough fair enough so that is like all the analysis that you need to do to things are you just going to copy what they do or is it documented like why they did it they way they did it or is it just no there is very little documentation as you might imagine for these sort of things well it is good starting point right yeah so i g i yeah so it would be interesting to see if you agree with the decisions that they made about how to do things that is that is why so yeah i suppose i can easy look through and start writing up some documentation on it that will gi that will give us a starting point for us to sort to talk about it to look for what analysis we n actually need to do on it and things yeah easy c yeah create all the switches and whatever else you need to do so fine good okay okay yeah so we will on once yeah well once i have had once i have had a bit of bit more look at this g d f stuff then start looking through that start looking through that and make sure that works cause al also just filters it cause there are a lot of strange event tags that the eye link produces that are fairly meaningless i think and it can stri it strips out a lot of the junk as well yeah yeah yeah ah i have l yeah i have no no noticed that the the the gest analyser knows quite a few things as well so it cleans it up huh so but as well b but we do not want to build it into our data path we just want to learn from it i think right right correct b fine or no well possibly yeah well i use it that useful for generating this g d f stuff i can easily incorporate whatever functions it takes from into gest analyser when i am do doing the g d f stuff yeah so i am just thinking you know like i so this takes the ascii to to a d simplified ascii yep and simplified in with transforms in it ascii and it is just it seems to be harder to maintain something that has got that in it if it would be better to break things up into like steps yeah that you know as part of the the and als well why do i think this the pr i do not know because it is somebody else is program and then they are going to give us the next version and that is going to break our entire pipeline yeah huh yeah i see what you mean huh you know that is the main reason yeah yeah i mean but what yeah say what what i will what i will plan to do with it then is take the is take to the software find out what functions are useful for us in that and then use those functions to generate the stuff that goes into the x m l file the the g f format yeah yeah i can imagine i can imagine that also requiring some discussion about whether what they do is what we actually want to do 6 or that should be interesting yeah yeah so so the fir fir 1st part that will be documenting what they have got and then discussing it with robin huh so yeah well sounds good so so i suppose pose that that way the it is it is not quite s it so it is not going to be quite grabbable cause it is it is written in java right but yeah well i tr mo mostly yeah i am sure i sure most the logic is going to be going to be the same yeah well yes huh the actual so yeah and if in doubt do not filter stuff out keep it in right cause we always dump it to this other n x t track that we do not need to load necessarily so the idea is you just keep stuff unless right yeah fair enough yeah it is always better than making too much compression to start with and then being out of unable to go back or yeah yeah fair enough well so so it is so long as it is x m l n x t will handle it will not it lossiness cause 0 yeah and it is easy enough to dump stuff into an into separate track yep w we got to teach you about this at some point though so but still not quite sure when fair enough it sounds like maybe in another week okay okay so jonathan made me promise not to tell you about it when you 1st arrived cause you were going to get overload about learning eye trackers and no or or you leave very quickly it is just too many things at once and it was not important that it be then huh yeah well i am well i am well g i have got the hang of all the stuff i have been going through and it looks like l looks like i am coming to end of the stuff the stuff list there already yeah so so i am going to have start looking at that as the next stage yeah he is a cool customer he is ready for it so okay i think we are done right yep yep well i am i am 0 dear my page is blank still sorry 0 yeah i do not know i do not really need to this just says look at the wiki find out what is next you could give give craig more work to do well i ma i ma i may be maybe i want to check out these batteries and things will not i this one is mine it i guess not so tomorrow 0 yeah well that will take forever well that will be something to do well well will the will the will will do if the trains are tha as bad as today that is that is really fun check your batteries so
i mean if you were ever you know late sabat it is not we will find a way around it and i have put you guys on mondays at this time for my convenience but it is not like it is important yeah well i was the spacing to get yeah they did not make it in time but it is just because of all the leaves and things the trains were not stopping at the stations so it is like the speed restrictions on slating past really yeah great so what do they have to do back up i am not sure they end up busing people i think it is a quick station that had particularly problems on because it is on a hill or something so i had to bus people in from like stations either side 0 nasty yes yes but yeah at least it was speed restrictions instead of like trains flying past into barriers and things yeah yeah we are glad they look after that bit 0 yeah i do not know do we want to look at anything it is not up yet still 56% percentage i can skip it is it just doing a disk check or something i do not know what it is doing oops that fell off does not like silk stay now we are going to discover we have got no reason to meet right because everything is going swimmingly is everything going swimming 0 well you know apart from waiting for the get contagious sorted right because i have not been i have not read the wikis in my email since i left so yeah i have not added to anything to the wiki recently so so i have been working on trying to get the xml stuff working so so i am basically learning how to get the dom works so i can do this works so i can do the next so i can generate the ddf files 0 yeah so yeah so just to read through documentation that is what is doing the end last week just so i want to know how it all works and will not bring out the best way to do things but at the moment i have been playing about the dumb stuff in zilla because just so i can see how it works with the html pages so i can generate x hml stuff and see how it all works there this is much easier to just see how things work in that well i do not know the mozilla stuff so if it turns out that it is idiosyncratic in some way that teaches you funny habits then it will not have been a good idea well the api is standardized by the w 3 c so the api is standard between everything well there are certain companies that i do not want to name who do not always get it right but yeah mozilla yeah it will be all right yeah yeah i believe you now it is a good strategy yeah yeah well yeah it does like you said this is a visitor only feature and things like that so i have been avoiding those anyway it is just that is quite a quick way to just to get into how it done work because i can just quickly generate a web page and just add things to it and take things away and see exactly what is going on at the time so why does it help that it is html instead of just xml just because xhgml has a nice you know you have got browsers there so you can actually see you can actually see directly what is going on most browsers when you put an xml file up in it it will just apply some default style sheet to it anyway that shows you yeah well i am using xhtml all the web pages are xhtml so it is xml just with the html dpd ok yeah just because we have not quite finalized the gdf format so just what you are going to have to do is swap in tag names later yeah yeah so all we will have to do is it is change it will change that sort of thing so it is a yeah everybody has got there different ways of doing this i am sure that is fine i mean it comes out in the end yeah no i am just trying to think of the things that could go wrong but since i have not tried it this particular way you know but yeah that sounds good so you say we have not finalized what the gdf looks like is that an implicit request for me to do something or no what i am doing in the moment i am looking through the stuff that robin put on the wiki to say say what we need in the output format for the task so what you are going to do the analysis on so i am making sure that i can get that information out of the gdf as a state at the moment if i find something that you can not get out of it then i can add that to the gdf format yeah as a well i mean there is 2 cases in here right there is things you can get straight off the original format and then there is things you have to do some kind of post post the original format but it is not just a data format change it is actually some kind of computational process to get the thing out of it as well right yeah yeah and i think it was a little bit confused last time we spoke about whether you consider gdf format to be the thing that is just the straightforward translations of what is in the original eye tracking output or whether like whether the post processing utilities are a separate step because i think you and i had separate different views on this but i can not remember who had which you at this point so are you working actively on these analysis things or are you just working on the translation well i am making sure the gdf format we have got in the moment will output the well output all the analysis that robyn is looking for so i am using that as a way to get into using the dom things as well so yeah so at the moment i am looking at actually the gda format itself and then to generate the gdf format i am going to be taking stuff out of the jess analyzer and then using the dom parser to generate xm 0 okay so you have not looked at what is in there and what is not in there that you need to do some really intensive transform to do no no but the output of the jasta analyzer does do some of the processing already which is what i am trying to use that as the basis for it because that already picks up like target reads and things like that so it knows whether you are looking at a part or where you are looking at the target area or whatever so yeah so it is also got that in it somewhere so it is just a matter of pulling that out and put that into the gdf okay so this sounds like it is under control when you are happy and you guys are telling each other what you guys need to know so i do not need to do anything right nope you are all fun but there was a number of things that came before this right that it sounds like they are not under control yet so so you know the gdf stuff so ellen is view on this is we go through everything in order like the priority is exactly the pipeline order right so camtasia you mentioned yeah and i am not sure what else but we should check what other things were before this on the list of things to do yeah yeah i think the only thing i have got left to leave before the experiments can we run is get the cantasia works no we have got cantasia running on machines and i think they are set up correctly but i can not test it until we get the microphones working until you get the microphones 0 microphones it is batteries we are waiting for batteries they are due i was told the beginning this week okay are they really really strange batteries they are quite strange have you tried maplen it is averill has ordered them from somewhere are they expensive no about one50 each or something like that because you know like we bus journey over to maplen might solve the problem if it is getting in the way well hopefully they should have been here last week but caroline then phoned up to chase them and they were told to be here it should be today so this is not actually ruining your schedule for anything and that is why you are waiting well we can still test whether camtasia runs anyway it is just whether the microphones are picking up things correctly right okay so it sounds like you are not actually worried about the fact that this is not yet yeah when you get worried go to maplen phone for us to make sure that they are in there somebody around must have a probably a steve somebody in the techie group will have a maplen catalog i will see if i can it is useful to know who has got a current one anyway i do not seem to get them anymore i guess they do not buy enough equipment i think most of the stuff online these days anyway is not it 0 yeah of course duh so you can find out whether they have it but you would have to phone them to find it if they have it been stopped down there i actually live not that far from there from that so it would be a half hour diversion from my morning routine to pick up stuff but then again it is also very close to haymarket yeah so it is even less of a diversion for you except you do not know your way around i can easy i can easily get to matler i do not know where it is i used to live here i know i know i used to live here i am a geek i know where i am doing i do not know what i am happening is yeah i just think well you know for the sake of 3 quid or however many quid how many batteries does the same take it does not take 100 no it is 2 batteries we need yeah then you know put your mind at rest you know you would not want it to be the morning you were supposed to be recording and that is up to discover yeah you know this i suppose i could give you a call on the way in tomorrow and if they are not paid in your pigeonhole like and as you got off the train early and just pick them up from there yeah i check they have got them 1st though the stocks are a bit funny down there right yeah well i will make sure i am making that i will make sure i have got the phone number of my phone so i can call them because you know it is not that attractive an area to walk through if you are not going to get anything out of it well true true that is that way right is not it so of all the things that were on the wiki do i need to pull up the wiki 0 it is going to let me log in it is still probably even that angle yeah no i did not want to change my password but you guys probably know off the top of you had is there anything else that we were waiting on before you could run i remember the thing so all those tasks well the thing that is holding me slightly up is checking whether joe is finished there is a working model builder but i am not sure if it is the finished version yet his last day was the 31st of october yeah he still had hours left i was not sure if it was down to the number of hours or were the 31st of october 0 yeah no no it is hours yeah it is hours 0 so he has got hours left he is behind him i think he was billing for he was billing by the hour so i thought well i mean obviously if he wants to finish off then you know but i have 9 megan has gone dead for almost the last 2 weeks 0 well they are probably away then was not ellen away they were really in the same place no but i think what they had was some big review 0 yeah it could be it and so i have not heard anything back from them the models for 0 you have no models at all 0 that is a pity model builder that is what i was calling the graphical model editor right so you use x fig to make the parts and then you well we do not need to make the parts are all the standard tangram ones that had before anyway the x fig thing is only when we come to building airplanes and new peculiar shapes but for this experiment it is just a tangram type task okay i have something in my email about from joe he would not have sent it just to me would he do you have me to check that i am not going to project my email i will say that one recently i have not heard anything from joe for a week or something okay i think i might have heard thursday or something i can not remember exactly when it was just the last thing was in response to the thing i was saying last week about the parallelogram being the wrong way around from the model yeah that is all the screenshots yeah but nothing has i have not heard anything since from either say the netherlands or from you okay so i have got something on the 28th that is friday i think 0 he just wants to know how to get paid right that suggests he is done done done anyway he is in edinburgh so well i suppose he will not come by because craig is on his desk 0 is he back yeah ah right okay so well i am using the dice machine so he wants to pop in for 5 minutes the windows machines free from him at the moment well he is just not going to try to squat there that is all so the last thing i have got from him about workorp was the 19th of october that said he uploaded some changes that you wanted 0 see you did not get that it was just me and him but presumably he put it on the wiki so so he is just telling us because he thinks we probably do not read wikis i will just check it was after that that was the thing about the parallelogram was a mirror image i will consider him get an email off of him i think it got sent to the group saying that he would updated the whatever it was on the wiki he would uploaded a new zip file and i have written the old one well i have not replied to him about yeah i really do not have anything more recent from him i have not replied to him about you know how to submit costs and stuff like that so but that suggests he is at the end of things but we could just ask him i mean maybe you guys would just want to ask them directly you are done done right because it is worth you guys knowing and then of course any problems that remain you inherit but you know it is worth taking a look at what it does and making sure it does what you want i guess so the problem was you wanted to construct some models in it for your experiment but you were hoping to get some from nerlus yes or at least she was meant to have some idea of the level of complexity because they would have actually run things and to get an idea of the sort of style and to check it would be all right all very quiet right have you tried cold calling that that is what i do when i need things that no it has just been email rather than the telephone type of it 0 christ then when if you get them today when are you going to start running i am down for a week what is the 7th it is a week today 0 right so you have to be you have to be ready by then well i have not booked anybody in or anything but that is when i am hoping that is when i am hoping right okay we have been of course put back a bit by the eye tracker going down huh yeah makes sense yeah subjects you are we are certainly needing some data in the bag by the 1st of december i think yeah so you do not have subjects lined up but you do not expect any trouble getting them hopefully not the only other slight complication is complication is which will be i think brought up back the meeting on thursday for all the eye tracking users yeah the lab has been blocked again by jewels from psychology i do not know this person so they well they need to be serious about it who is there is that a staff member or a student okay well we kind of paid for the lab so it depends but i suppose talking to them sometimes solves these problems you might it depends on what sort of staff member is it is it a lecturer right i mean presumably he or she is not running subjects the entire well presumably not but it is sort of quite totally booked for certainly what is 6 days for 10 to 5 for 2 or 3 of those days so ellen is still out of town right it is just you could try calling this person and see how this works ellen might be more persuasive it is just sometimes academic staff have a bit of a chip about research staff and since i do not know the person i can not tell whether it is one of those or not i would not i know i can probably at least email her and ask her if she is really needing it all that time yeah and that escalate i guess but you know or whether it can be put off for a little bit or something so i have no idea how the booking system works well you are discussing them thursday right well yeah at the moment it is just a booking system yeah yeah if they can log on to it can book it yep well that is one to raise at the meeting i might talk to ellen about that ahead of time because they may have she and martin may have had discussions about appropriate use of the lab in theory jess is meant to have it every morning 0 really yeah but do not you guys set up for is not black booking more appropriate because is not there set up involved in changing a row of it in changing around for somebody else there should not be any changes in the physical connections no or in the software or anything no okay so there is no cost associated with it being mornings or afternoons no as long as other people do not for some reason i do not know disconnect some bits of the equipment there is no reason why it should so in the worst case you may be able to make an argument if you actually need that week that you can collect in the mornings that week is this something that is known outside ellen is head yes it is on the booking system it is not on the booking system it is on a webpage that frank created about the lab 0 well that sounds like which i do not know if anybody actually knows is there well and that is the time to yeah so it sounds like you have got a lot of possible ways of getting what time you need of course try to be kind to other people but it would anyway so those are the only things that are worrying you camtasia and lab access and otherwise no sweat you are happy should be i have also got to get camtasia 0 the model builders yeah well yes the multiple i have got to get camtasia working as a sort of little multimedia thing to generate a video how to sort of an instructional video 0 yeah huh this is going to take a little while that is what i will have to do this week well hopefully once i go round a trial that will give you some screenshots to work with and then just mean out of adding your video of mouse movements or whatever yeah but you were going to try and figure out how to overlay something on top of the video that or no you were just really going to run a video of the set of the of the trial yeah that is that is much easier so with a model builder what do you need to do with it which one is going to look at what it does so far and i will just do that yeah have a look if you are only problem with it things a wiki page up for that for that piece of the yeah for that thing so if you just put just put whatever recommendations bugs on that page and or work through them as and when i can hopefully there is not a problem that i say marlose was also meant to be checking it and doing things huh how many models were you relying on her for so are you suddenly going to be it has not been divided up in that sort of way well what i am trying to get at is is your start time going to be delayed because you do not have the models ready if she does not come through depends how quickly i managed to get a grip of it maybe how long it takes me to generate them or how i get on with the cantasia huh yeah well unsure of yet can you draft craig in to build some if necessary i have used the software and that is not that hard it should not there should not be any great problems just checking that they are of a suitable level of complexity you know me contingency planning on this i always worry about the worst yeah no quite right yeah i can not imagine the building the model is going to be that hard i can easily just we will have how many 1000s are on that dutch website you found just you know pick some of them redo them in the jct format that is yeah it is pretty mechanical i can easily do that it is a matter of choosing which ones you need to do yeah which i guess you have to do or i was hoping for some feedback 0 yeah well you need to you and marlose need to sort of yeah you can call a jess telkan between you and marluse you know if it is not that see you know with a call calling you can usually at least find out whether they are alive and get an offer to get something but you know the next escalation is saying no we really need to talk about this we are going to talk about it you know tuesday at such a time unless you yeah it is a good time i will try and get hold of it again but presumably whatever it is they have been going through is now over i think it was up until the end of october so presumably today they are now free or taking a week off to recover i would just hate for that to slow you up in collecting stuff that is all well hopefully it will not anyway it is just if i then do it i hopefully will get the right models yeah that is the problem but it will be generated it is whether their models are optimal that is quite a small thing she can do for you i guess it is not like sitting there brain deadly constructing some models that she needs to do it is just to provide advice about this which must take less time well that all sounds fine you guys worried about it you worried about anything we have mostly been talking about the experiment schedule i do not think so so the main thing i have got to do is get this camp data just sorted out so just waiting for the batteries for that if i am not worried i am not worried you are going to run out of things to do that we have not set you up for any time soon the gdf thing sounds like it might take a wee while yeah yeah because i have got to finalize that format and then once that is done i have got to start looking at the analysis side of it there is all the dynamic region part of it yeah but you do not need anything from me for that because that is already sort of spec i mean again that is the pair of you yeah yeah i think the analysis will take a little while i do not think it is going to take that long to get this stuff sorted out it is going to be how to display and all that sort of stuff for whatever makes it easiest for you to do this is what i am worried about is him being in the lab all day long and you not being sure like what to do for the analysis or something because you are going to be completely unavailable when you are recording or will there be times when you do not record all day no well it depends of how many i can book in and get running and before my brain melts but when the experiment is running i will be in the lab i can not just go in and let them start 0 yeah no no no i understood that some people can but it was more like you know so this week he has got you know the gdf stuff to do then next week you are planning on recording and what happens if suddenly you are unavailable all of next week just when he runs out of work there will certainly be time for now because i am right next to the lab anyway i will come back just to check my email on things anyway so what were you about it then yeah so i have still got to work on the jess analyze and turn that into a gdf outpeter and yeah i can have a look on the model builder as well one thing i think about is we are looking at the part building type stuff and it might be worth seeing if i can add a little part builder thing into the model builder i just got to tidy up on the code for generating the parts anyway the jct parts well i do not know what we want to bother with a part builder i mean the idea was it was not worth the investment yeah yeah well i want to have a quick look at it and see how easy it is to add a couple of things to it because if i can use it to generate the rot sim angle for example the rotation symmetry stuff for it which is what was called as in the bugs before so if i can use the model builders automatically do that then that would save quite a bit of work save a few bugs yeah but now that the guy building these models know that they need to do the rot some stuff do you have trouble doing it no no it is just something you have got to remember once the parts being built so yeah well i mean we might want to severely cash limit the investment that you put into making a part builder yeah yeah i am not going to be much on that how many person days would it be worth like if craig discovered it could be done in x days i would not bother more than one or 2 certainly right so there is a limit do not spend more than a day or 2 on it yeah but i am worried about it you have to understand that there is things about this project we have hidden from you so far that you will have to learn about i saw something about a map task like a little further down my task list 0 really 0 that will just be a little add on whatever it is it will be the same skills as you have learned for something else and it will just be i am not even sure that is you because i think somebody else is doing that actually but i am thinking more of the fact that at some point we should probably tell you about this nxt stuff right yeah well that is just x mil to xml is not it turning gdf and whatever it is into nxt but you know there is xml and xml and you know it takes standoff links and stuff and it is some people if they are not used to linguistic annotation take a little pun to get their head around the way the data model works right right and you know there is stuff to learn there yeah what we have heard about it is both xml so the programming side of it does not say in too hard it is going to be making sure that it fits what you expect out of the format yeah yeah but that is fine i will have plenty of questions for you once i get to that stage i am sure yeah so just do not whitter away you know weeks on fripperies when we have got the real meat of this yet to come yeah yeah we will find plenty of really really crucial things for you to do yeah i do think you will be twiddling your things yeah well the thing is we are going to get camtager sorted out this week and then it is concentrate on the on the jast is analyzer the gdf stuff and then yeah once i have done that it is whatever you whatever you whatever you want me to do once i have done the once i have done the gtf i guess okay so i will remind myself to look at what is next before the next time we get together yeah yeah i think the gdf can keep me busy for a little while yet so yeah well that is something to yeah certainly keep me busy until this time next week and then i can sort of suggesting things that might need to look at for the next stage yeah so you are collecting monday that means you do not want to meet right well at 120 clock next monday the lab is taken to be booked by jules 0 right it is actually next week it is actually the week that you were planning on it starts the on this wednesday and goes through to next way to see 0 okay well i do not know anyway you will tell me whether we canceled this or whether i just talked to craig in which case we will not be up here because we do not record 2s yep what else my then other complication is 2 weeks tomorrow i start my teaching 0 yeah must be fun let us see that is like the 4 lectures and 4 labs that comes at an ideal time for you then yes that is like the 20th or something i can not add monday is the tomorrow is the 1st so it will be the 15th actually yeah that reminds me i will not be on thursday i am going to be over in 0 you have got your induction day yeah production that is right 0 yeah you have to promise to tell us how that is because people do ask me fair enough fair enough i do not think it is a total waste of time to you know yeah the scale of one to 7 yeah yes i mean i do not expect to be that in depth i mean it is 15 minutes on a variety of different topics so it is just yeah i am sure most of it already know it is like fire safety yeah health safety data protection usual sort of stuff you get everywhere yeah yeah this thing yeah yeah cover itself legally i think by doing this yeah well if they were going to do that then they would force you to go to it and i would not know somebody who would go on to know nobody is pulled her so far i am pretty sure they did not have induction in my day well i do not remember being asked for an induction really but you only started here in april they were supposed to i am sure i got invited to a summer garden party for new staff members but that is all 0 well when i started being a student when the induction was a compulsory because a lot of students were doing teaching and you could not do the teaching unless you have done the induction because you had to know about health and safety and fire safety before you could take a charge of yeah because you were the responsible person in the classroom so yeah but i am not sure why i am doing it now there we go let us see how we go i will give you a report on friday or something i have one nxt question okay well it is not one hopefully as part of the output it will be something like that is that correct so you have got the gaze position of the 1st person gaze position of the 2nd mouse position of the 1st the mouse position of the 2nd and i do not know i will call them mouse action or something yeah is that just in in such of seems reasonable so it will be like in monitor but yeah there will all be different tiers like that and then there is the language stuff as well yes that is just the yeah this is the easy stuff yeah yeah well eyes and mice eyes and mice huh and that is enough for you right i mean that is just the way you want to hopefully that is yeah it is why of course there are lots of things that can do that it is the language part as well yeah so i was just yeah i was just checking that i know the language part would say say up here but this would be the new part new stuff that seems fine yeah do you know what the sets of codes are well whatever you are getting out of the jasta analyzer so yeah whatever that is i mean blinks as well right yes i am not sure we need to know exactly where they are just how many there are each so you do not want a part of the state i do not know i suppose it could go in i suppose it is well to have it i think you should well there is 2 views on this if you do then the people formulating research questions will ask about them but if you do not they will probably ask about them anyway and then you will have to add them out to the fact so it is really easier just to shove them in you can stick them in a different track and then load them or not load them as you please because it is not well i do not know is it part of so these are mutually exclusive and exhaustive sets of codes against time right is not blink a part of this blink would at the moment just get lumped in with the previous gaze yeah but is not that important because when they are blinking basically it is like a nil code you can not find out what they are doing otherwise so it may actually be important to have the blinks registered in there because you may discover you need to take them into account to smooth some kind of analysis that you are doing so it could be that if only they had not had to blink just then they would have been i do not know what moving somewhere else or it is more likely to be blinking at the same time as the other person is doing something that you want to know about 0 i hope not too much for lies i am missing stuff because people blink i was thinking more like you know the person looks at a part and they have got a fixation before and after and there is a blink in the middle and you know there may be times when you want to treat that as one thing yes right normally we just as i say add the blink time and duration to the previous fixation 0 right okay so but in that case because you are not absorbing any new information and that is what the critical sort of deciding factor is right huh in that case then these tiers are already like blink corrected yes so that they will include and then you would not have blinks as part of this you would want blinks as a separate tier if you are going to have it in yeah it would be as a separate tier where just the mark yeah the actual position yeah so the key thing here is mutually exclusive and exhaustive and the 2nd key thing is it better be really clear to the people who are dealing with these codes what is included yeah whether any monkey business has been done around the blinks to correct for that because no it would not necessarily be obvious looking at that set of codes no no certainly not looking at the codes yeah i suppose if you know that i trackers then you will just know know what to look for and what not to so that means you need the blink correction as part of the analysis then i think you are saying it comes out of the ad tracker already right they are already blink corrected well they are already identified as blinks then it is at what stage the software that i have used pools and the blinks so we will add it on i am not sure of what right so that is the stuff that comes to the eye tracker that is the stuff that comes the eye tracker certainly it is listed as a separate event in the stream blinks are a tag from the edf and that sort of thing it is registered right okay well if you want to merge into a fixation it might be worth making that part of the requirement for the gdf stuff to remind me so just add that analysis to it it is easy enough today just checking the time yeah i mean it will not because of the fixation it will be down to what we define as a gaze so basically the time from when somebody starts looking at an object until they leave it and so if they blinked a lot within that they are still looking at that object so it is just the time in to the time out right okay but what we need to know is like at what stage in the eye tracking is up where it does that and whether that gets through so that craig gets it automatically in what he is translating or to gdf whether he needs to redo the same analysis because something about the data path cuts off that analysis for the eye tracker or whether we even like it right and want to do it some different way yeah i think the ascii format as it stands does contain blink information yes because i am sure that is appeared in the documentation i have read through yeah there is a blink yeah but it could be these things are corrected for blinks in this way plus there is blink information so possibly it treats it as a fixation around blinks and it also just happens to tell you where the blinks are because as you were saying they like to use blink rate as measures of cognitive difficulty or something so right okay okay yeah so my way i will try and look at that and just seeing what data is already in the sc format and whether you want me to do any correction as part of the analysis i have got to do the analysis for the fixations on parts and things anyway so yeah i did not think to check for blinks during that is not going to be a should not be a big problem it should just be a matter of treating adding on the blink to the last fixation or something yeah yeah if they are not still fixating on it when they come back out of the blink then why is that the right thing you do analytically well the real reason is as long as they have been blinking even if they then open their eyes somewhere else that is when they start absorbing the new information 0 right yeah you said that it is basically like it is just a long saccad kind of a visual suppression when you move and it is the same when you are blinking you are not taking anything in well but does the duration of fixations count for anything because if you are just adding the length of the blink to the fixation you are not treating it as a saccad it is yes that is for this sort of gaze time measure it is not actually fixations are still independent so the fixation duration does not include the blink in the ascii output it is only when we start looking at the total amount of time spent looking at one particular object which includes all these sort of multiple fixations and any blinks and that sort of thing okay i can not get this yeah yeah viewing time right so more complicated than i thought i would forgotten about the multiple fixations on an object yeah okay so the idea you are looking for a final thing which just says between this time and this time you are looking at this object between this time this time you are not looking at anything although we will also still need a count of the fixations just so we can have you have got a measure of the average fixation duration again just to see if it has been longer just more stable move eye fixation or not yeah yeah i think at the moment the gdf moment has fixations in it it so i guess that would be part of the gdf to nxt transformation would be turning fixations into gases and whatever else yeah okay okay do not worry about that just the moment okay i mean this is kind of what we were talking about before this confusion about what is in the gdf i mean you might see it as the initial gdf is just whatever straightforwardly translates without you know without transforms but just the data format changing from the ascii and then there is a bunch of other things that get added that you might still want to be in augmented gdf format you know like this blink and the gaze and whatever else and then you translate to nxt so you might still want to have everything in this one gdf file format that represents everything and then the nxt thing is just a splitter it is not doing any fancy analysis right so i see this is you know a bunch of little routines that take the gdf without this information in it and add new information into subsequent versions of the gdf file that contains these post process analysis well that is part of why i brought this up now is i am not sure at what point down the data path things sort of happen but that is what i want out in the end right yeah so will you actually be doing much of the gdf or are you expecting to be mostly analysis out of the nxt stuff so when you are actually during your results  well the nxt stuff will have the more complete picture because it will include combine all the linguistic stuff with all the movements and the actions right but there will be i suppose just some purely eye movement stuff we could do presumably the gdf yeah well yeah you are talking that earlier because you could do a quick analysis on the gdf stuff without having to before you hit before you do the dialog analysis type stuff so you can get some results anyway can you yeah i mean it does it does not matter which data format it is in nxt or gdf but it makes more sense for the converter between gdf and nxt not to add any data all it does is do this stupid data format conversion and it is just you know separating it out into little steps so you know there have to be these other scripts that add any data transforms not data format transforms but data transforms like this idea of putting together gazes from fixations so you know if we keep it simpler like that so that it is in little pieces then it will be just easier to understand what the whole thing does right okay okay because you know if suddenly you discover there is a problem with the gdf to nxt transform you want to know whether it is one of these little post processes going wrong or whether it is just the thing that dumps it into the multiple files for the and gdf to nxt transform is pretty simple so right and that is also why i sent you the sarbruchin software that the stuff that takes the ascii format originally and then just 0 yeah yeah the german stuff because that little utility does things like well you can tell it what to do with blinks whether just a lumped the minimum or not what the minimum fixation duration per stable fixation would be so you have if it picks up fixations less than say 50 milliseconds you can tell it just to again lump them all together that is not a reliable enough fixation you can put in these sort of things so that is a bit of software as sent and that includes the source code and things as well so i will take a relative to that source code and then sort of restrictions on that fairly so that is like all the analysis that you need to do to things are you just going to copy what they do or is it documented like why they did it the way they did it or is it just no there is very little documentation as you might imagine for these things well it is a good starting point right it would be interesting to see if you agree with the decisions that they made about how to do things yeah i suppose i can easily look through it and start writing out some documentation on it and then i will get that a good at a starting point for us to talk about it today for what analysis we actually need to do on it and think yeah i can easily create all the switches and whatever else you need to do good okay okay yeah so one to one yeah well once i have had a bit more of a look at this gdf stuff and then start looking through that so i will look through that and make sure if that works it also just filters that there are a lot of strange event tags that the ilink produces that are fairly meaningless i think and it strips out a lot of the junk yeah yeah yeah but yeah i noticed that the jess analyze in there is quite a few of the things as well a few of the things as well so we do not want to build it into our data path we just want to learn from it i think right correct or no possibly well if there is things that are useful for generating this gdf stuff i can easily incorporate whatever functions it takes from into jess and lizer when i am doing the gdf yeah i am just thinking you know like so this takes the ascii to a simplified ascii and simplified in with transforms in it ascii it is just it seems to me harder to maintain something that has got that in it it would be better to break things up into like steps but you know as part of the and also well why do i think this i do not know because it is somebody else is program and then they are going to give us the next version and that is going to break our entire pipeline yeah you know that is the main reason yeah yeah i mean but what i will say what i will plan to do with it then it is take their software find out what functions are you useful for us in that and then use those functions to generate the stuff that goes into the xml file yeah i can imagine that also requiring some discussion about whether what they do is what we actually want to do that should be interesting yeah yeah but the 1st part of that will be documenting what they have got and then discussing it with robin huh well sounds like that way but it is not going to be quite grabable because it is written in java right but yeah well i will throw most yeah i am sure i am sure most logic is going to be yeah well yeah exactly and if in doubt do not filter stuff out keep it in right because we always dump it to this other nxt track that we do not need to load necessarily so the idea is you just keep stuff on us yeah it is always better than making too much compression to start with and then being able to go back yeah well someone with his xml nxt will handle it will it 0 yeah it is easy enough to dump stuff into it in their separate track we got to teach you about this at some point though so i am still not quite sure when it sounds like maybe in another week okay okay jonathan made me promise not to tell you about it when you 1st arrived because you were going to get overload about learning eye trackers or you leave very quickly it is just too many things at once and it was not important that it be then yeah well i have got to hang of all the stuff of being going through and it looks like it looks like i can come to the end of the stuff of the list there already i am going to start looking at that as the next stage he is a cool customer he is ready for it okay i think we are done right yep yeah all i yeah my peach is blank still sorry 0 yeah i do not know i did not really need to this just says look at the wiki find out what is next you could give it give craig more work to do this one is fine i may be having to check out these batteries and things are not there 0 yeah well that will take forever that is really fun to get letters we will do with the trains as better as today great 0 yeah we are going to have a little bit of steve the steve will just try it at the evening i do not know them off of course 0 yeah i was very much steve but i have to ask you too right yeah well i will get the well i will retire 10 years ago i will have you 7 yeah all right i am out here yep thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you the