yeah so we have moved over and onto the other eye link okay so cause she is running at the moment yeah i mean m my view on this was that the need for people to back up their data personally was made sufficiently clear to lab users i mean i guess right okay she did admit it as long as she admits it then then that is fine yes huh i i am just thinking you know sometimes when there is a a process error like that you think 0 then there is something we should change like make the sign in bigger red letters but i in the our case i do not think there is anything more we can do really no so well i doubt anybody will do that again cause that will get around but ma yes so yeah shock and worry at i think yeah there is a there is a mailing list and yeah yeah we will go we have got the mailing lists out now is not is not it so it is everyone should know about it now yeah there was a mailing list before they have just revived that right f frank went through it deleted the people that were have gone or or whatever and replaced them so the the eye the the list is now updated right okay yeah so so everyone on that list has now being reminded huh yeah do not store anythi anything sensitive on yeah do not store anything you you care about on the machines right so yes and we do not know so there is every chance of this falling over again if it is a hardware thing right yeah with the yeah i mean i di i di i did do hard dri hard drive check and a memory check but there is not much we can do about that apart from right and it says there is no there is no problems but something caused it to go wrong in the 1st place yeah why is huh so we do not know we do not know yeah yeah we will just fingers crossed and hope ho yeah ho hope that all this is just a software thing that we can just fix like that and that will be it huh yeah so how long does this put you back for is it you know how much disruption does this cause d is this a day 2 days yeah we are doing a bit see last week by the time everything and and then it will be hopefully no more than i do not know what 20 minutes today to day and a bit yeah yeah yeah huh yeah i mean there is there is so what we yeah 11 for one to actually do the re install one we will try and get done today yeah get get windows back on there you c try and get camtasia on there and get that tested out and then that will be i think that is everything we need f before we can before you can start running the experiments is not it yep so and i saw a bunch of stuff about software updates that is un unrelated to this problem right i i yeah you mean from was that joe the eye link or is that i c i did not read em i saw like 5 messages go back and forth maybe they were under the wrong subject header there was nothing nothing over last week so anyway we have well joe has produced another version of the model builder and put that up 0 no i mean the eye link software well that wa that was ruud well a few weeks ago but yeah so it is unrelated it is not that right yep it is unrelated okay good and was r was running cause frank did all that because he then had an experiment so he is run an experiment and it is all worked yeah yep so i did he get his data in or is this put his schedule back he is he is done his and got his and yes he is done it okay and he backs up anyway yep right well unfortunate but it sounds like you guys are well placed for dealing with it maybe too well placed yeah so better you than me yep yep but yeah no i have to manage to get at things working on on monday so that that everything went down like on the tuesday morning so my m i should get everything working on the yeah on monday so sure that the j c t is actually working collaborating collaborating between the 2 machines yeah i had dinner i was not actually at dinner but i d have the eye tracker stuff working cause it was just me running roun running round the lab still have to once it is re installed have to actually do a proper p yeah of proper pilot and yeah 0 so you need to borrow somebody is head and mouth and stuff to to run it right yep yeah but but it loo it looks like it was doing all the calibration and drift correction things that s ellen was wanting on it and so so that do not think there is anything to add to the software for that part yeah so i have got a new trainee who might need amusement at some point so if you need to borrow a head that talks that does not necessarily need to do much else i will th i will ask her if she would mind coming down and helping you out for a while but i guess ellen was going to be your the p the person who yeah your spare head wh a spare head or yes but she is not around right so yeah so mine is well she is actually climbing ben nevis today i think but she will be back tomorrow her name is nynke did you guys meet her do not think so nynke this seems the sort of thing that people might might find i find amusing to look at do not s do not sound do not sound familiar so i i will i will see if if she would be willing to well i did meet someone from another project of yours on wednesday evening it was 0 who is that hei heidi who is the gesture of autism 0 yeah heidi 0 yeah she is good yeah you guys might actually have something in common cause she does well you know stuff for the video coding and gesturing yep and autism and autism yeah but so okay right what am i writing okay nynke to volunteer yes sh she has been volunteered well no i will actually give her the the option but it sounds like the kind of thing where you know i think it is quite useful when you are at that stage to see the different kinds of technologies people use yeah so yeah so i will try and try and get camtasia up and running so i can try it out when when when we have got her coming in and we will just sort of do a run through of proper pilot just to just just so i can see th yeah yep make sure it it starts and finishes when it is meant to and that sort of thing as well yep yep yeah i will make sure make sure they can actually pick up the f audio signal as well so but it should be the yeah the audio signal should be coming out the speakers once it is set up properly yep so that should that should make that slightly easier yes with the the bleep was a hardware bleep originally and so it comes from the p c which is outside the sound proof box oops well you found that then yeah yep yes but yeah so they are fortunate have speakers 0 on the monitors inside the room so as long as and what we will have done is just going to set up so the whatever the asterisk sound is on windows is what gets played h it comes through the so so just change sound to whatever you like just go through the windows control panel right okay so we want one you can pick up using matlab or something right yep yeah so i will i will have that running over the weekend yeah yep aye so la last week i tried it with a one kilo hertz sound and it was it c it could detect it but it was not but but it was not very clear did it with 10 kilo hertz and it is just really clear where you can tell exactly where exactly where the beep is now okay perfect so yeah so tha it is ju just a matter of yeah you just ba basically just play it just play a 10 kilo hertz sound over the over the speech and then just compare the 2 signals basically so i have i have got a little script for doing it so so yeah yeah perfect so or you are going to bank the script some place and tell us how to run it yep yep not a problem huh cause we will not know no right well that all sounds good what else you have altered the task program because to put the little eye icon and the mouse to make it yep yeah the the one the one in just installed should have that now we will double we will double check and re install on software on the on the eye tracking machines but yeah it should should be updated without any so rather than just a blob ellen wanted something to look more like an eye so that you knew that was the eye 0 really there was like yeah 0 okay yeah so so so we have got like a big circle with a white circle in the middle of it for an eye and we got like a rectangle with 2 like rectangle buttons on it for a mouse huh okay so very nice very pretty it does not get in the way of seeing what is underneath no they are they are they are the same size as the as the original blobs basically version one but so they yeah i think the mouse is slightly bigger but it is not you know it is not it is not hugely bigger it is not too bad so huh i c i can i can see where that is useful yeah and if it ever ever gets to be a problem in the pilot i can easily reduce the size of whatever no just change it cause that is not too hard want it a reasonable size so that if they are looking at it we know they are looking at it though so so you has to be a a reasonable target for the for the tracking purposes yeah yep yeah although if if you had a big thing and it was jiggling around like anybody is business like real eye track traces then you might find that a little bit disconcerting i mean small things you kind of expect to jiggle around right but with large yeah i suppose the larger more oscillation appears that it is not w i mean it is not it is not it is not that big it will look like it is quivering you know yeah so yeah yeah but well that is all fine what else i will try it you were saying joe with the model builder yes he is produced an another version that does not have the overlap problem 0 remind me you know there was the yeah the collisions 0 yes okay the polygons now do not overlap 0 that is good marloes discovered something strange about the orientation of parallelograms from when it was constructed to when it appears in the actual task but i think that might be something to do with the original configuration than the parts that were not the same across the 2 so i will check that out to see if it really is a problem or not 0 okay and basically the parallelogram was appearing in a sort of as a mirror image of what it was like in the model builder in the actual yeah really just total it flipped in in a mirror image not rotated so it was not anything to do with rotation just the parallelogram it was f yeah just the parallelogram so entirely sure must be some way of how the vertices were described or defined in one way or compared to something else right okay so you your job in this is to ensure that it actually is a bug and then pass it to joe joe yep okay that makes sense i mean the this geometry stuff is really tricky if you do not do the fold the boxes stuff in your head well so i can imagine well cause i could get it backwards easily you know and so it is just as well for w for you to check this yes the other thing we have done is looked at n not for this current experiment but for future when we have got to build bizarre parts like air craft wings and and things something like x fig can output the vertex points for creating the air the actual polygons in the 1st place huh yeah yeah cause the model builder assumes that there is an existing set of of original parts yeah so you need to draw em in something so you need to draw them in the 1st place 0 so yeah i suggested you do that in x fig so is that a reasonable thing to do or no it it i yes yeah yeah so so you can you can do it in x fig export them as s v g and you just get a you just get a list of x y coordinates yep and then i will just write in a little script that turns those x y coordinates into a part yeah so this is this falls down completely if nijmegen can not run x fig so you better check that with em right w or something i i well the thing is it is s v g so so long as i have got something that will output s v g but okay but they may need help finding the something if they can not do x fig i suppose yeah yeah so i will als i will also have a look have a look at that but the there is there must be plenty of windows things for th that i 0 output s v g yeah so it must be a some sort of pink package min i kno i know i know microsoft though i mean well what kinds of i kn i know adobe and things have faculties that do it but obviously they are like a few £100 they are the paid yeah and so oth but other i i would b i would be very surprised if there was not a free package for doing it i ha i have a feeling that the amaya the w 3 c browser does it huh yep have a feeling that that can actually edit s v g files okay so i would not do any any work to find out what will output s v g just ask them look you know say we you need something that does s v g and then if they if they come back and say ha then y you may need to poodle around a bit looking for something but you know let them let them say they have got a problem before you spend time trying to figure out what will do it yep yep yeah yeah yeah cause and it is not it is not an immediate problem anyway yep fair enough but i thought it was worth before joe disappears just checking that the model builder is not restricted to just doing the tamgrams or something tha you know huh yeah yeah so no it does look like it is m s n 0 so well i can imagine there being shapes that you could construct in s v g format that would fox the model builder in some way i do not know i mean it cause you do not have specs about what sorts of shapes are allowed right no but as long as they are solid polygons it should be alright right it does not matter whether they are convex or concave in funny ways no it sh well hopefully that is not what the parallelogram problem is because it it does have sort of sum of angles and things yeah ex but no as far as i mean it yeah when will yeah but no i will i will create a c i will create a convex part just so next week ju yeah but it just it it just just happened to be a convex part that i was that i was i was playing with and you tried it yeah yeah yeah yeah so it it handled that fine or part of it was convex it did not have any self intersections so that might be a problem yeah so i will just have to have check that but would we want by self intersection you mean you could yeah by by a by a part of it crosses over itself s so it is sorta like a b you mean like i y yeah but that is why we no we will only be working as i say with sort of solid obvious polygons and as parts cause they will have they will have to have a central point anyway for for rotation and and grabbing yeah yeah yeah well but by self intersection here i will draw here if i can find the right end of the pen but y do you mean something like that yeah that sort of thing yeah yeah so a and you can rule out something like that right well realize what we are i would consider that 2 parts yep cause that is 2 parts for you yeah i mean you know some f rainy day you might want to think about well i do not know i mean it you know later on we can fix it if it if it turns out those parts it is not urgent now yeah if if it if it becomes a yeah i think this is not important enough yeah yep yep yeah yeah so for now we will just just assume that non interse non intersecting and yeah and then there is this at the moment the e the s v g stuff can output ones which are not closed polygons but ones ones you ones that actually had turn up into parts list it creates a closed polygon by linking the l end point to the start point the last point to the yeah yep so so yeah so as long as long as they are yeah so so so as long as they are they are drawn well enough it should be alright so but yeah huh yep suppose let nijmegen find their find their own s v g sort of find something that does s v g and then we will see if there is any problems yeah yes yeah but but but if they have trouble you know half an hour googling and helping helping them is probably worthwhile cause someti sometimes people i mean it actually i would e i would not expect them to have any trouble finding something cause j p is quite up with all the all these things yeah yeah j p is quite yeah huh so are th yeah but it mi it might be worth just checking what software they are using cause it might crea it might create outputs slightly different from x fig well you let us encourage them not to use any software that might have idiosyncratic ideas about what s v g is so she says delicately yes i have no ooh that i was not going to say the microsoft version of s v g or something yes huh i i have no idea whether they have idiosyncratic s v g output or whether but their track their track record could on some of the other standards has not there have been slightly strange things about it i have no idea either so but in my you know i mean they sh that should be if yeah that should that should be fun yeah i think it does s v j s v j output so i will i ca i can easy double check if nijmegen can not find anything so yeah i have not looked through other mail i did see something from marloes is there anything they are waiting on from us that is a problem or i they reasonably happy at the moment nope i think they have they are not waiting anything from us they have dumped the pilot the pilot studies that they generated based on the task with their english participants or english speaking participants 0 they have done the pilots yeah 0 good but they have not done anything with it other than dump the data dumped the data where is it dumped they well they dumped it on the b s c c w server b s c w but i have moved well i have not moved it i have copied it onto the c s v yeah well that is okay you know we are not using that much space if it is just for interim and they have to get out to us some way yep we had a brief discussion just before i left about this idea of exchanging data by fire wire drive and i do i do not know if that ever got resolved but you know that is not that is not fast enough for little things like this nothing further is so i think b s c w is the right way to exchange these no we just have to wipe this stuff off and keep separate copies after that and i have sent a thing off to marloes talk trying to encourage her again to register for the c s v and and what to the c v s and wha what to do and which bit of software i use that seems to be quite easy and simple the c v s 0 so you are managing that okay and you have not run into c v s before yep nope okay well yes and no as in yes it is new and no i have not got a problem well good yeah yeah yeah yep well that is that is reassuring 0 so far yeah yeah course he is sitting on the next desk huh y yes yeah and i am just using it through a windows bolt on sort of piece of software yeah but other than that that was easy enough to install though was not it it was yeah yeah no i have just yeah straight forward and then you just right right yeah r and right click things in in windows explorer copy and paste the stuff out the off off the wiki so that is it yeah well she will have to u use the c v s eventually cause we do not really have a good way of doing this otherwise but yeah yeah i mean also double checked in that we are not going to w could access the c v s from home when i was working from home last last week on thursday i managed to managed to get in and just just check the stuff and make sure it was all make sure th make sure ma make sure i could access it so they should not have any trouble accessing it once they have got the log ins well that is it we will never see him here again so not yet i am afraid watch i will find out he has got a better computer at home as well right on a day like this i know it is a yeah right and what about the project as a whole is there anything that ruud or anybody is after that we are not supplying no not at the moment right not at the moment the only thing that has been going around is the version of the flier i do not know what real purpose of these little folded up a 4 fliers there has been bit of are they just for distribution at conferences and things they are they are critical the to the success of a project so or do they y yeah and general places but yeah i would not worry too much about it unless they ask you for specific input right well i i am not really bothering yeah but it there is that is what is circulating around the the group as a whole at the moment that is what is circulating huh i have sorted out travel et cetera to munich for e for ellen john and myself 0 yeah and we are all off on the 14th of december coming back on the friday and john is going the 16th yes 0 that is good he will be useful for the w p 7 stuff so well while you do that i will be trained in how to hire people so that is a so that is how to hire or how to interview is that that book both so so is there anything else what have you got on for the rest of the week besides getting this stuff up and running again well on once once i have tried out the camtasia stuff i will see if the if there is any problems going to tr going to try and fix them if there is not any problems next time i am working on this g d f stuff so so i have i have i pu put on a d t d and a sample x m l file on the wiki for the g d f yeah so it is ba based on some stuff you put on there on the g d f specification right so are you concerned about it that i should be looking at it or you happy with it i mean i sort of wrote the initial draft of it i suppose the so yeah i mean with i cha i changed a couple of things from your original draft so there is not there is no longer a separate thing for creating new parts so just put a start and end time on each part so slower so the the you you you had a you had a thing call i think it is mold or so or something that you said which is sort of to create a new part there is an action to create a new part huh but i th i have i gave each part a start time and an end time so you can see when the parts were created so i am not su so i am not not sure if you want to keep the mold or not okay i will have to look i can not remember how this works now cause it was a while ago yeah but it is it is just the g d f specification page on the on the wiki so i have i mean i will try try to put in justification for for the change that i made on the page so but i have i have sent it out for review so that s anyone who is going to using the format can have a look at it yeah and you will get nothing back unless i look at it right huh so i best for for us for me to do that i i yeah i i mean it is really good that you are y putting things out for for review and saying like why for stuff but we do not we also do not want to burn too much of your time recording stuff that that nobody is ever going to look at necessarily so i mean this this might be a good case for or it might or it might be that you should just like you know talk to me about this stuff if i happen to be around at the time that you are doing it and not y so i if the writing stuff down on the wiki gets to be too high a proportion of things then then you do not necessarily want to do it you do you know what i mean right yeah yeah yeah the so i th i think it is great to have the records and that is really important mind when the spend especially in in big dispersed groups but this is kind of a smaller group so it you know we can do things more informally where f you feel the wikis are getting in the way of things yeah so well the ones that this stuff i mean is it is helpful it was helpful for me to putting it up on the wiki cause i could actually thin think about it as i put it up and say well this is this is why and th this is why i want to do things this way 0 yeah it well if it aids you in thinking to write it down then definitely write it down so yep yep cause yeah we want clear thinking i can not actually remember i how it worked with the the molds i mean i w i wanted to make sure that no i can not even remember so i will i will look at it well yep fair enough fair enough but i am sure it is fine cause it is just my memory of things what el well i will have to get to grips with cra camtasia properly to generate a little sort of introductory video i suppose for instructional purposes at the beginning of the experiment yeah yeah so people will be able to see and so that the p you know example movements and things like that will be 0 yeah huh yeah so is that going to have a voice over or is it we had discussions before you started about whether it should be completely silent so that they could use in case we ever wanted to do this in in dutch in dutch as well yeah well and and so you know you could just have sort of well the i think we discussed having it with an english voice over or having it with no voice over and then having it w just with cartoon noises or something like or you know when things break 0 right 0 huh right so to emphasize the i may be imagining it no that must have been before me so p it well well i kn i know on camtasia if you got a ca if you have got a camtasia project i you can have the video and audio stored separately separated in which case 0 so we could produce a dutch voice over for the same thing yes yeah yeah so yeah yep so so we just ended the just ended the the dutch stream yeah the video and our audio and then they can easy create their audio out of from that outp yeah exa yeah yeah so the i mean th i do not think i think it would be more sensible just to do the non the the video part of it 1st and then you add the voice over afterwards yeah rather than trying to do all at once you know okay the oth the other issue is i if we do a voice over does that affect the language that the people choose to use yeah yeah might use or are you going to prime them in any way s so that might be another reason for not doing that doing anything with the voice you know if you start talking about have to avoid or yeah talking about the parts or just naming them or anything like that alignment or you know yeah so i think maybe that was another reason for just having or or or ding for you know you got it or i do not know what bef yes okay yeah or did no n no noise in fact i think is probably yes pro probably actually not even the sound effects cause otherwise they will expect that in the real experiment and that does not happen yeah yeah yeah yeah so if they make move a piece and it breaks and they do not hear this crash and they go 0 what is you know what is happened well that y yeah yeah is that really all what happened yeah it is well you need some way to make sure that they actually notice the thing you are trying to explain to them if there is no voice yeah yeah well one thing 11 thing that camtasia can do you can have little videos when other have not gotten got any cameras for doing that but you could like have videos of people click on the mouses and sorta or whatever else or or you could just point to you know have b great big arrow that points at the 2 pieces that broke yes i think it can generate things you know and you can do yeah you can generate call outs and whatever so the might yeah i am sure there must be a way of putting big arrows ov or whatever huh yeah so you going to clear or r however you do this with ellen right cause she is the one that has thoughts about the language and stuff yes yeah yes but or in our discussion we have not mentioned it was assumed there would be a voice over but i will i will i better i will i will remind her yeah i will i will i will do that 0 well remin remind her that there was a question about whether there oughta be one yes cause we have got to think of the instructions and sort of basic introduction to it all as well so actually i i did email nijmegen to ask if they would had a set of instructions they would given their participants i bet marloes just talked to em but it probably i s i suspect so because i have not had a reply back ah i think it is really up to us to yeah too too it was just in case they had something that what is it hard you do not want to give em the specification you know cause that is in too high falutin a language but 0 i it can not be that hard to generate something that says no that should be a problem i will be straight forward enough i think 0 on my holidays we encountered a children is toyshop where there we there were tamgrams and my son reminded me that he ca has not been able to find his tamgram set in a while alright you want take it back well if not if you guys are using it 0 t no th it is not got it is yeah it is i well b actually i could probably just photo copy the manual or do y do you find it helpful to have it and there is only a 0 but it is so tactile to have the little metal bits yeah if you if you are using it keep it he has got plenty of toys if you are not if you are not using it then i will take it back right yeah right 0 i have hopefully well i will not hopefully need it for more than another week or 2 anyway so as long as you can hold off his no no yeah y it is not it is not a worry the the lad has plenty of toys right i i was looking at the the complexity sort of aspect of the tamgrams in that booklet it is not quite that they just get harder oops it is that they kind of have pages of similar types 0 similar types huh yeah so one page will have sort of parts that are kind of similar to each other and then you move over and there is a different almost type of design or style yeah so it is not quite as progressive in complexity as right so how you going to get your complexity ratings google no google is there a big tamgram community that ranks these things like you know that is just one booklet that came with one set of tamgrams i will try i will try or or is it obvious like when you look at these things you never know what is what is out there well i am hoping the dutch input will allow us to p sort of have a rough idea of what was the of a suitable complexity for the task yeah but that still will not tell you well how many tamgrams are there that they are using 15 or something no not even no not even that they have of this relevant type to what we are wanting to use probably 3 huh we have to generate 16 in total so that is not going to g so that is not going to tell you anything about relative complexity that is just going to tell you where in the span you want to be you still need some kinda scale for these things yeah ideally ca if you look at em do you just know no no i would either well i do not i am not what about him i if h mister geometry no i am an af afraid not i mean you know can you tell just by looking at these how hard people find them or right okay i would not know no no no well i will tr i will try the good old google and see if there is if there are some sort of ranking sites or whatever that is a s that is psychology thing how hard they who is psychology already uses tamgrams that is still around mean people have been using tamgrams for ages so there must be somebody with a folk wisdom you can contact i will try and find out i do not know off off hand certainly right i only know ancient papers so like late 80s i will i will do a search do people still use tamgrams b i have not encountered them 0 so we are very old fashioned well or maybe they just do not use anything like that i suppose for well there was stuff in the 70s and the 80s right so since then but i am not sure if anything is happened since then right well the old the old tasks are the best so i am not going to let that worry me so sorry that was k i think a big diversion and we were talking about what you were going to do next after all this stuff was up and the i was going to look at the g d f spec are the rest of the y are is the rest of what you are to do with that software fairly clear cause this is about the analysis yeah yeah so this yeah you really only need robin right to to specify the rest yes yes he will he will just be working with robin on what analysis we need to get out of the g d f format so i am going to c basically i have got a the gest analyser is the base the basis for ascii to g d f converter so what i am going to do is actually create an output a g d f output part to it huh cause at the moment only outputs the video but it does have internal structures will just make it easy to do the the x m l yep yeah so so that is that is what i am going to look at and then once i have done that i can look at the whatever analysis we need to get done out of the g d f yeah cause there were all these issues about how you calculate eye eye lag and you know w what other th analyzes we want 0 want out of this that are not settled but i think you know robin is the person who knows the most about what is required there and i can imagine it is going to take a wee while to i can imagine you know as little as it is but yeah yeah yes so that might be the focus of discussions next week or something right that what need out of this and have to yep to try and yes and home home in parameters and choose the right sort of settings so yep yeah so you might want to try and come yeah yeah if you get that far try and come equipped with a list of the kinds of things you want out of it and and so we can look through and see y ellen might have views on what kinds of things once we have a list right so so yeah yep i am sure she will have views on it so but it would be good to you know make sure once we have a list of the things that we think we are getting of it that it matches her intentions for what we were supposed to get out of it so you know if we do talk about that then it might be nice to have her along for it 0 i found have not fount it physically yet but a reference to a 92 paper it is in the royal proceedings of something or other somewhere based on a an experiment that had blocks a model blocks of parts and then an area where people had to build you know replicate the model out with the parts 0 yeah just one person at a time of course but it did involve eye movements and monitoring where they are looking compared to their hand movements and that subject 0 yeah who is that then ballard kay are they still in the business back in 92 yes i think so where are they the i will not sure okay well they might have the folk wisdom on the complexity right yep so 92 is not that long ago yeah so there should still be well not that on well it is really but is it y huh is it a paper you can get that is what i have m i will have to try and find out well they still do it for library loans and stuff so if not the national library is bound to have it huh yep so do we think next week that is what we are going to talk about cause we want want to ask ellen ahead of time if she wants to come along for a discussion about 0 well that is that is fine then she is not here next week anyway it is next wednesday or thursday before she is back okay 0 yeah c she cause she her stuff is getting blocked off the mailing list cause she is not mailing from her normal account 0 is that what yeah she has got a yahoo account or something that things are getting forwarded to and yeah and i can not figure out any way to just approve messages from her without her subscribing at that account ah so or or 0 well that is only if things have not been getting through ah there is only one message so far yeah it did not say much anything else yep anything else i think that is it and i will t yeah i will get get working on the camtasia stuff this week and then so once once once we have got some some idea about what analysis you want out of this i can think about whether g d f has got everything we need in it and f yeah what analysis we can pull out of it well certainly the the there is the provisional list of what we need on the wiki anyway that i put it up yeah yeah so i will i will double check the g d f specification against that just to make sure it has got everything you said that you would you say you need from that list so yeah bu i do not think that list is our final word on things and well i i added things to it 0 well maybe it is then well better well i do not know when he last looked at it but or when i added it i yeah it was sometime in the last 2 weeks anyway but yeah huh i do not think i was fully paying attention to that i mean i am not going to have views on this anyway what i am really worried about is making sure that there is not big surprises for ellen and and j p you know when they suddenly discover that they are they are assuming some analysis is in there and we did not did not put it in that is what they are getting yeah you know cause now is the time for us to be figuring out what we want out of that data and and getting you write the stuff or getting j p to write the one dimensional analyzes that he was talking about yeah yeah yeah so yeah cause they i mean we w we got all this in the ascii format at the moment and it is just a matter of what data do we need to pull out of that into the g d f so i can actually do the proper analysis cause i think all the answers are going to be run off the g d f format cause cause we have decided that if we went and looked well if we are looking at dynamic reasons and whatever else yeah it it is the it is the dynamic regions that i think might cause a bit of trouble it has to be g d f but yeah which is yeah which is why we have to do it off the g d f as as opposed to the e d f format so 0 right okay so y actually you are breaking this down into 2 steps now one is just a straight extraction from the ascii and the other one is any post analysis that that adds information by analyzing it is that th yeah yeah so so the g d f it has got yeah so it is it has got the all th the stuff on the e d f so it is just the the ascii file the things like the mouse movements and things like that yeah it is just anything that has got shoved through the eye tracker and then yeah yeah and then on top of that g d f can also it will also have information such as right yeah at this point in time they were looking at the new parts area or they were looking at the target yeah yeah okay that is post analysis yeah yeah so right yeah so yeah so the the g d f is going to have that sort of information in it and then also cause it is x m l file we can then do x s l t or whatever on to it to get extract whatever bits of data you need for yeah for for whichever bits of analysis you are trying to do from it that filter yeah filter out so yeah 0 well that all sounds good so i have got 01 thing to check and one person to ask if she will volunteer to be a head unless y and as far as i know that is it for me see i have to explain yep i think so i am for for one of my other things i there is now a specific wiki page that says stuff jean has to do to do and i am beginning to think that this is quite a good idea cause i worry about not doing the stuff people expect of me much more than the other way around right watch out well i think according to the latest documentation you are down for 5% of your 15 months on this project or something what documentation some b jast report 0 okay officially well it does not actually make its way into its my salary i am afraid into reality huh so right but yeah i mean i do spend time talking to you guys so you are getting something out of me yeah yep but
yeah so we moved it over onto the other i link i mean she is running at the moment my view on this was that the need for people to back up their data personally was made sufficiently clear to lab users i mean i guess she did admit it right okay as long as she admits it then that is fine i am just thinking you know sometimes when there is a process error like that you think then there is something you should change like make the sign in bigger red letters but in our case i do not think there is anything more we can do really no well i doubt anybody will do that again because that will get around yeah it is a shocking worry yeah we have got the mailing list set up now is not it yeah there is a mailing list should know about it no yeah there was a mailing list before they have just revived that right frank went through it deleted the people that were have gone or whatever and replaced them so the list is now updated yeah so everyone on that list has now been reminded yeah do not store anything sensitive on yeah do not store anything you know yeah there is there anything you care about on the page right and we do not know so there is every chance of this falling over again if it is a hardware thing right there is not much we can do about that apart from yeah i did do hard drive check and a memory check and it says there is no problems but something caused it to go wrong in the 1st place yeah yeah we do not know we do not know just fingers crossed and hope and yeah i hope that is just a software thing that we can just fix like that and that will be it yeah so how long does this put you back for is it you know how much disruption does this cause is this a day 2 days yeah we have been doing a bit since last week yeah and then it will be hopefully no more than i do not know what 20 minutes today to be yeah i mean so 11 we will try and get done today yeah get windows back on there try and get kampasur on there and get that tested out and then that will be i think that is everything we need before you can start running the experiments is not it yep and i saw a bunch of stuff about software updates that is unrelated to this problem right you mean from was that joe the i did not read of myself like 5 messages go back and forth maybe they were under the wrong subject header so anyway we have well there is nothing over the last week joe has produced another version of the model builder 0 no i mean the i link software 0 that was a few weeks ago so it is unrelated it is not that yeah it is unrelated okay good and was running because frank did all that because he then had an experiment so he is run an experiment so did he get his data in or has this put his schedule back he is done his he is done it okay and he backs up right well unfortunate but it sounds like you guys are well placed for dealing with it so better you than me yeah yeah too well pleased yeah i would manage to get things working on monday so everything went down on tuesday morning so i managed to get everything working on the yeah on monday to show that the jct is actually working collaborating between the 2 machines i did not have the eye tracker stuff working because it was just me running around and running around the lab so once it is reinstalled have to actually do a proper pilot so you need to borrow somebody is head and nalph and stuff too alpha and stuff to run it right yeah but it looks like it was doing all the calibration and drift correction things that ellen was wanting on it so that does not think it had for the software for that part so i have got a new trainee who might need amusement at some point so if you need to borrow a head that talks that does not necessarily need to do much else i will ask her if she would mind coming down and helping you up for a while but i guess ellen was going to be your spearhead yeah your spirate yes but she is not around yeah so mine is well she is actually climbing ben nevis today i think but she will be back tomorrow her name is ninka did you guys meet her i do not think so this seems a certain thing that people might find amusing to look at so i will see if she would be willing to i did meet someone from another project of yours on wednesday evening 0 who was that heidi 0 yeah heidi gesture 0 yeah she is good you guys might actually have something in common because she just well you know stuff in video coding and gesture yeah and autism and autism yeah so okay right what am i writing okay i am thinking to volunteer it has been volunteered well no i will actually give her the option but it sounds like the kind of thing where you know it is quite useful when you are at that stage to see the different kinds of technologies people use yeah so i try and get camtasia up and running so i can try it out when we have got her coming in we will just sort of do a proper pilot just to just do it it starts and finishes when it is meant to and that sort of thing as well yep yep yeah i will make sure they can actually pick up the audio signal as well but the audio signal should be coming out to speakers once it is set up properly so i should make that slightly easier yes the bleep was a hardware bleep originally and so it comes from the pc which is outside the soundproof box oops well you found that then yeah but yeah so fortunately the speakers on the monitors inside the room so what i have done i am just going to set up so whatever the asterisk sound is in windows is what gets played so you can just change the sound to whatever you like just through the windows control panel ok so we want one you can pick up using matlab or something right yeah so i had that running over the weekend so last week i tried it with a one khz sound and it was it could detect it but it was not very clear did it with 10 khz and it is just really clear you can tell exactly where the vp is now perfect so yeah so it is just a matter of yeah you are basically just play a 10 khz sound over the speech and then just compare the 2 signals basically so i have got a little script for doing it perfect so you are going to bank the script someplace yeah tell us how to run it yep no problem because we will not know right well that all sounds good what else but you have altered the task program it is to put the little eye icon and the mouse yeah the one in justin is still should have that now we will double check my install on the eye tracking machines but yeah it should be updated without now rather than just a blob and one wanted something more like an eye so that that was the eye 0 really yeah yeah so we have got like a big circle with a white circle in the middle of a for a eye and they have got like a rectangle with 2 like rectangle buttons on it for a mouse huh okay very nice very pretty it does not get in the way of seeing what is underneath no they are the same size as the original blobs basically so yeah i think the mouse is slightly bigger but it is not you know it is not too big i can see where that is useful yeah and if it ever gets a very problem in the pilot i can easily reduce the size of whatever it is not too hard would not it a reasonable size so that if they are looking at it we know they are looking at it so it has to be a reasonable target for the tracking purposes yeah although if you had a big thing and it was jiggling around like anybody is business like real life track cases then you might find that a little bit disconcerting i mean small things you kind of expect to jiggle around it yeah i suppose a larger more oscillation appears it is not i mean it is not that big it looks like it is quivering yeah well that is all fine what else you were saying joe with the model builder yes he is produced another version that does not have the overlap problem 0 remind me 0 yes yeah the collision so polygons now do not overlap 0 that is good marlowe has discovered something strange about the orientation of parallelograms from when it was constructed to when it appears in the actual task but i think that might be something to do with the original configuration and the parts that were not the same across the 2 so i will check that out to see if it really is a problem or not basically the parallelogram was appearing in a sort of as a mirror image of what it was like in the model builder really yeah just totally flipped in a mirror image not rotated so it was not anything to do with rotation just the parallelogram yeah just the parallelogram so not entirely sure it must be some way of how the vertices were described or defined in one way compared to something else right okay so your job in this is to ensure that it actually is a bug and then pass it to jow do it yeah that makes sense i mean this geometry stuff is really tricky if you do not do the fold the boxes stuff in your head well so i can imagine because i could get it backwards easily you know so it is just as helpful for you to check this the other thing we have done is looked at not for this current experiment but for future when we have got to build bizarre parts like aircraft wings and things something like x fig can output the vertex points for creating the actual polygons in the 1st place because the model builder assumes that there is an existing set of original parts so you need to draw them in something so yeah i suggested you do that in x fig is that a reasonable thing to do yeah yeah so you can do it in an x fig export them as svg you just get a camera you just get a list of x y coordinates and then i will just write a little script that turns out of x y c cordance that turns those x y 4 ness into a part yeah so this falls down completely if 9 meg and can not run x fig so you better check that with them right well the thing is it is svg so long as i have got something that will output svg okay but they may need help finding the something if they can not do x fig i suppose yeah yeah so i will have a look at that but there is there must be plenty of windows things but they will output svg some so but i know i know microsoft though i mean well i know adobe and things have packages that do it but obviously they are like a few 100 page yeah and so but i will be very surprised i was not a free package for doing it i have a feeling that the the maya the w 3 c rosa does it have a feeling that can actually edit svg files so i would not do any work to try and find out what will output svg just ask them look you know say you need something that does svg and then if they come back and say huh then you may need to poodle around a bit looking for something or something but you know let them say they have got a problem before you spend time trying to figure out what will do it it is not an immediate problem anyway but i thought it was worth before joe disappears just checking that the model builder is not restricted to just doing the tangrams or something so no it does look like it is 0 so well i can imagine there being shapes that you could construct in svg format that would fox the model building in some way i do not know i mean because you do not have specs about what sorts of shapes are allowed right no but as long as they are solid polygons it should be right right it does not matter whether they are convex or concave in plenty ways well hopefully that is not what the parallelogram problem is it does have some of the bangles and things no i suppose it yeah well i will create a convex part just the next big yeah and you tried it it just happened to be a convex part that was playing with so it had not laughed fine it did not have any self intersections so that might be a problem so i will have to check that would we want by self intersection you mean yeah by part that crosses over itself you mean like no we will only be working to see with sort of solid obvious polygons and those points they will have to have a central point anyway for rotation and grabbing by self insection here i will draw here i can find the right at any pen do you mean something like that yeah that sort of thing yeah and you can rule out something like that right because that is 2 parts for you i would consider that 2 parts yeah yeah i mean you know some rainy day you might want to think about well i do not know later on we can fix it if it turns out those parts it is not urgent now i think this is not important enough yeah yeah so if i know we will just assume that none non intersecting and yeah at the moment the svg stuff can out but ones which are not closed polygons but once you want to actually turn up in the parts list it creates a closed polygon by link and end point at the start point yep yeah so as long as they yeah so as long as they are drawn well enough it should be all right yeah well we will suppose let nightmegan find a find them an svg yeah so find something that does svg and then we will see if there is any problems but if they have trouble you know half an hour googling and helping them is probably worthwhile because sometimes people i mean actually i would not expect them to have any trouble finding something because jp is quite up without all these things yeah so it might be worth just checking what software they are using because it might create output slightly different from x fig well let us encourage them not to use any sort of software that might have idiosyncratic ideas about what svg is she says delicately it is the microsoft version of a spg or something that i was not going to say i have no idea whether they have videocentric svg output or whether but the track record on some of the other standards has not very have been slightly strange things about it so yeah but amaya you know i mean that should be that should be that is a should be fun yeah i think it does svg output and so i can easily double check if my megan can not find anything yeah i have not looked through other mail i did see something from my loose is there anything they are waiting on from us that is a problem or if they are reasonably happy at the moment i think they are not working anything from us they have dumped the pilot the pilot studies that that they generated based on the task with their english participants 0 they have done the pilots 0 good but they have not done anything with it other than dump the data dump the data where is it dumped well they dumped it on the bsw server but i have moved it well i have not moved it i have copied it onto the well that is okay you know we are not using that much space if it is just very interim and they have to get out to us somewhere yeah brief discussion just before i left about this idea of exchanging data by firewire drive and i do not know if that ever got resolved but nothing further is you know that is not fast enough for little things like this so i think vscw is the right way to exchange these we just have to wipe this stuff off and keep separate copies after that and i have sent the thing off to marlow is talking trying to encourage her again to register for the csv and what the cvs cvs and what to do and which bit of software i use it seems to be quite easy 0 so you are managing that okay and you have not run into cvs before no okay well good yes no as in yes it is new and no yeah yeah yeah yeah well that is reassuring so far yeah of course he is sitting on the next desk yes and i am just using it through a windows bolt on piece of software yeah that was easy enough to install though was not it yeah yeah straight forward and then copy and paste stuff at the wiki right click things and windows explorer that is it yeah well she will have to use the cbs eventually because we do not really have a good way doing this otherwise i am saying i have double checked and i can access to cvs from home when i have worked from home last week on thursday on thursday i actually can manage to get in and just check the stuff and make sure it was all make sure i could access it so they should not have any trouble accessing it once they have got to log ins well that is it we will never see him here again wow i am not like that he has got a better computer at home as well right not yet i am afraid right and what about the project as a whole is there anything that we do anybody is after that we are not supplying not at the moment the only thing that has been going around is the version of the flyer i do not know what real purpose of these little folded up the poor flyers they are critical to the successful project are they just for distribution at conferences yeah in general places but yeah i would not worry too much about it unless they well i am not really bothering but that is what is circulating around the group as a whole at the moment i have sorted out travel etc to munich 0 yeah for ellen john and myself we are all off on the 14th of december coming back on the private and john is going yes 0 that is good it will be useful for the wp 7 well while you do that i will be trained in how to hire people that is sweet how to hire or how to interview both right so is there anything else what have you got on for the rest of the week besides getting this stuff up and running again well once i have tried out the camp dager stuff if there is any problems if there is any problems the next time i am working on is the gdf stuff yeah so i have put on a dtd and sample xml file on the wiki for the gdf but based on some stuff you put on the gdrf specification so are you concerned about it that i should be looking at it or you are happy with it i mean i sort of wrote the initial draft of it i suppose yeah i changed a couple of things from your initial draft so there is no longer a separate thing for creating new parts so we just put a start and end time on each part so you had a thing called i think it was mold or something you said which was sort of to create a new part there is an action to create a new part but i gave each part a start time and an end time so you can see when the parts were created so i am not sure if you want to keep the mold or not i will have to look i can not remember how this works now because that was a while ago yeah it is just the gdf specification page on the wiki so i am trying to put in justification for the change that i made on the page so i have sent it out for review so that is anyone who is going to be using the format and have a look at it yeah and you will get nothing back unless i look at it right so best for me to do that yeah i mean it is really good that you are putting things out for review and saying like why for stuff but we do not we also do not want i also do not want to burn too much of your time recording stuff that nobody is ever going to look at necessarily so i mean this might be a good case for it or it might be that you should just like you know talk to me about the stuff if i happen to be around at the time that you are doing it and not so if the writing stuff down on the wiki gets to be too high a proportion of the things then you do not necessarily want to do it do you know what i mean yeah yeah so i think it is great to have the records and that is really important especially in big dispersed groups but this is kind of a smaller group so you know we can do things more informally where you feel the wikis are getting in the way of things yeah well the ones i have said it with this i mean it is helpful it was helpful for me to put it up on the wiki because i could actually think about it as i put it up and say well this is why i want to do things this way 0 yeah well if it aids you in thinking to write it down then definitely write it down yeah because yeah we want clear thinking i can not actually remember how it worked with the molds i wanted to make sure that no i can not even remember so i will look at him fair enough fair enough but i am sure it is fine because it is just my memory of things i will have to get to grips with camtasia properly to generate a little sort of introductory video for instructional purposes at the beginning of the experiment so people will be able to see 0 yeah and so the example movements and things like that would be yeah so is that going to have a voiceover or is it we had discussions before you started about whether it should be completely silent so that they could use in case we ever wanted to do this in in dutch as well in dutch yeah and so you know you could just have sort of well i think we are we discussed having it with an english voiceover having it with no voiceover and then having it just with cartoon noises or something like boof you know when it makes a break right that was to be before me so i may be imagined well i know camtasia if you have got a canteja project you can have the video and audio separately so we could produce a dutch voiceover for the same thing yeah so yeah so we just send the just in the dutch team yeah the video and our audio and then they can easily create their audio out of yeah so i mean i do not think i think it would be more sensible just to do the non the video part of it 1st and then you add the voiceover afterwards yeah rather than trying to do it all at once okay the other issue is if we do a voiceover does that affect the language that the people might use so that might be another reason for not doing that you know you start talking about you know you start talking about yeah talking about the parts is just naming them or anything like that yeah so i think maybe that was another reason for just having boof okay or no noise in fact i think it is probably yeah or ding for you know you got it or i do not know what probably actually not even the sound effects because otherwise they will expect that in the real experiment and that does not happen yeah yeah yeah so if they make move a piece and it breaks and they do not hear this crash and they go what is you know what is happened is that really what happened yeah well you need some way to make sure that they actually notice the thing you are trying to explain to them if there is no voice yeah well one thing one thing that can do you can have little videos than the matter than if you have got any cameras for doing that we could like have videos with people click on the maces or whatever else or or you could just point to you know have a great big arrow that points at the 2 pieces that bloke yes i think you can generate yeah you can generate callouts and whatever yeah i am sure there must be way of putting big arrows or whatever so you are going to clear her however you do this with ellen right because she is the one that has thoughts about the linework stuff yes but in our discussion we have not mentioned it was assumed there would be a voice of her but well remind her that there was a question about what in the iraqi one i will do that yes because i have got to think of the instructions and basic introduction to it all as well actually i did email my megan to ask if they had a set of instructions they would give them their participants i thought to them probably i suspect so because i have not had to reply back i think it is really up to us too yeah to invent it it was just in case they had something that is is it hard you do not want to give them the specification know because that is in too highfalutin the language but it can not be that hard to generate something that says no i should be forward enough i think 0 on my holidays we encountered a children is toy shop where there were tan grams and my son reminded me that he has not been able to find his tangram set in a whole right you want to get back well not if you guys are using it do you find it helpful to have it yeah it is well actually i could probably just put it copy the manual 0 but it is so tactile to have little metal bits if you are using it keep it he has got plenty of toys if you are not if you are not using it then i will take it back right hopefully well i will not hopefully need it for more than another week or 2 anyway yeah as long as you can hold off it is not a worry ladd has plenty of toys i am looking at the complexity sort of aspect of the tangrams in that booklet it is not quite that they just get harder it kind of have pages of similar types 0 similar types huh yeah so at one page you will have parts that are kind of similar to each other and then move over a different type of design style yeah so it is not quite as progressive progressive in complexity right so how are you going to get your complexity ratings google is there a big tangram community that ranks these things like you know that is just one booklet that came with one set of tangrams i will try i will never know what is out there or is it obvious like when you look at these things well i am hoping the dutch input will allow us to sort of have a rough idea of what is suitable complexity yeah but that still will not tell you well how many 10 grams are there that they are using 15 or something no not even that of this relevant type to what we are wanting to use probably 3 huh to generate 16 in total so that is not going to tell you anything about relative complexity that is just going to tell you where in the span you want to be you still need some kind of scale for the need some kind of scale for these things if you look at them do you just know no well i do not i am not i do not what about him no mister geometry can you tell us by looking at these how hard do people find them i would not know right okay i will try the good old google and see if there is a if there are some sort of ranking sites who in psychology already uses 10 grams that is still around people have been using 10 grams for ages so there must be somebody with a folk wisdom you can contact i will try and find out i do not know offhand i only know ancient papers so like late 80s do people still use 10 grams i have not encountered them 0 so we are very old fashioned maybe they just do not use anything like that well there was stuff in the 70s and the 80s right but i am not sure if anything is happened since then right wow the old past is the best so i am not going to let that worry me so sorry that was i think a big diversion and we were talking about what you were going to do next after all this stuff was up and i was going to look at the gdf spec are the rest of the is the rest of what you to do with that software fairly clear because this is about the analysis yeah yeah you really only need robin right yeah yeah just be working with robin what analysis we need to get out of the gdf format so i am going to basically i have got the just analyzer has got the base the basis for ascii to gdf converter so what i am going to do is actually create an output a gdf output part to it because the moment it only outputs the video but it does have internal structures that will make it easy to do the xml so that is what i have got to look at and then once i have done that i can look at the whatever analysis we need to get done out of the gdf yeah because there were these issues about how you calculate i i lag and you know what are the analyzes we want out of us that are not settled but i think you know robin is the person who knows the most about what is required there and i can imagine it is going to take a little while i can imagine you know so that might be the focus of discussions next week or something right to try and yes human parameters and choose the right 2nd yeah so you might want to try and come if you get that far try and come and put a list of the kind of things you want out of it and so we can look through and see alan might get views on what kinds of things once we have a list right i am sure to sort of views on it yeah so but it would be good to you know make sure once we have a list of the things that we think we are getting out of it that it matches her intentions for what we were supposed to get out of it so you know if we do talk about that then it might be nice to have her along for it 0 i have found i have not found it physically yet but a reference to a 92 paper it is in the royal proceedings of something or other somewhere based on a an experiment that had blocks a model blocks of parts and then an area where people had to build you know replicate the model out of the parts just one person at a time of course but it did involve eye movements and monitoring where they are looking compared to the hand movements 0 yeah who was that then ballard okay back in 92 are they still in the business yes i think so i am not sure okay well they might have the focus on the complexity right yep so maybe it is not that long so they should still be able is it a paper you can get that is what i will have to try and find out well they still do interlibrary loans and stuff if not the national library is going to have it huh yep so did we think next week that is what we want to talk about because we do not want to ask ellen ahead of time if she wants to come along for a discussion about she is not here next week anyway 0 well that is fine it is next wednesday or thursday before she is back okay 0 yeah because she her stuff is getting blocked off the mailing list because she is not mailing from her normal account 0 is that what yeah she has got a yahoo account account or something yeah and i can not figure out any way to just approve messages from her without you subscribing at that account well well if things have not been getting through well there is only one message so far it did not say much anything else anything else yeah i will get working on the kempagetor stuff this week and then so once we have got some idea about what analysis you want out of this i can think about whether the gdf has got everything we need in it and yeah what analysis is going to be right of it certainly there is the provisional list of what we need on the wiki anyway yeah yeah so i will double check the gdf specification against that just to make sure it has got everything you say you need from that well i do not think that list is our final word on things well i added things to it 0 well maybe it is that but i do not know when your last lip test it but when i added it was something in the last 2 weeks anyway but yeah i do not think i was fully paying attention to that i mean i am not going to have news on this anyway what i am really worried about is making sure that there is no big surprises for ellen and and jp you know when they suddenly discover that they are they are assuming some analysis is in there and we did not did not put it in you know because now is the time for us to be figuring out what we want out of that data and getting you write the stuff or getting jp to write the one dimensional analysis that used to happen yeah the thing i mean we have got all data in the ascu format at the moment and it is just as a matter what data we need to pull out of that into the gdf so i can actually do the prop analysis i think all the analysis is going to be run off the gdf format because we have decided that if we look at the dynamic regions and whatever else it has to be in the dynamic regions that i think might cause a bit of trouble yeah which is why we have to do it off the gdf as opposed to the edf format edf format 0 right okay so actually you are breaking this down into 2 steps now one is straight extraction from the ascii and the other one is any post analysis that adds information by analyzing it is that yeah so the gdf it has got the stuff from the edf such as the asc file things like the mouse movements and things like that yeah it is just anything that has got shoved through the eye tracker yeah yeah and then on top of that gdf can also it will also have information such as the ascii file which has right at this point in time they were looking at the new parts area or they were looking at the target okay that is post analysis yeah yeah so yeah so the idea is the geoc is going to have that sort of information in it and then also because it is an xml file we can then do xslt or whatever onto it to extract whatever bits of date you need for yeah for whichever bits of analysis you are trying to do for it yeah 0 well that all sounds good so i have got one thing to check and one person to ask if she will volunteer to be ahead and as far as i know that is it for me see i have to explain yeah i think so for one of my other things there is now a specific wiki page that says stuff gene has to do and i am beginning to think this is quite a good idea because i worry about that doing the stuff people expected me much more than the other way around right i think according to the latest documentation you are down for 5% of your 15 months on this project or something what documentation some jazz report 0 okay officially well it does not actually make its way into my salary into reality but yeah i mean i do spend time talking to you this you are getting something out of me yeah thank you it is well i do not know it is so the top of it thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you as well thank you thank you i am not going to i am going to be able like down the and i am like that and you are i am for the and you are for a we find out you are standing up you are standing up yeah well i am not a big time yeah well i am not like very like to be doing it has been standing and not to be sick it has been standing on every 2nd yeah no a little bit of a big round so you can not be involved in time and in the middle of the people you are going to be able to do but you are really about this you are doing you know in the middle of the night and he could not shuffle it back up i am not going to know how you do it but i am not you have been very friends of things because they can not have anything on you can not talk we are going to be stuck to study out and so there is a lot of people and you can not have a very and which would be a good and i was going to see if it is a long enough to like that and you know i think you are a good one and so there is a really warm around but there is some people in the market for me as most people who are there but you are looking at a lot of you know i am going to sit around and i am starting to start to go i just like to go i just think so 0 my phone wow i guess so much about it i am looking for what people 0 really well my presentation is very i am going to be i am not going to be thank you thank you