with the lapel so we i think we organize just to to discuss sorry i do not have my presentation to discuss yeah the project alexandre and jean marc proposed a about capturing audio video and slide in a synchronized way and so we will start with an introduction i think olivier prepared some slides about reviewing yeah current systems and and then even if we do not have many things to to talk about just to to start discussing about clearly the project and also dealing with our kind of timing constraints and so they are on my they are on a the u u s u u s b cord does not work and you did not put on the no no they are maybe you can access through the network if it is on your h yeah or it is on your d machine no no my d machine so maybe we wi we will be able to yeah okay should work just going what keep going so w yeah we had like 5 slides y presenting different systems the show must go on and mayb maybe you we can do that at the white board i it is a bit stupid but y you know i think you remember well the different parts okay and i am sure we can do that at the white board okay so yeah i will do something like that yeah it would be great to use the white board okay so i would like just to review at the different project regarding acquisition system so basically there are 5 systems the 1st one is called smac which is developed by fribourg and cern the 2nd one i is your system i would to say the cheap meeting room system the 3rd one yeah maybe i can share that with you so the the the 1st one is smac okay the smac yeah should i write yeah maybe yeah okay just a review of current systems to introduce yeah yeah sure that is interest us the 1st one is yeah i will call that a smac which is develop by fribourg and cern the 2nd one b which is i would like to che say cheap meeting room or i do not know it is okay it should well cheap meeting room is the you know it is a conference room but for the moment just for the purpose well f for the moment it is just to understand each other so we know we know that the okay you can say then you or it i th i thought it was called pas so i think just use this yeah yeah for with pas pas it is okay alexandre p a s pas yeah good idea pas yeah yeah yeah okay p a s the 3rd one is this sounds like alexandre pas yeah that is not that p pas project okay the 3rd one is called the s this is the smart meeting room develop at fribourg which is called the smart smart mediat smart minutes but i thi diva it is diva n est ce pas something like this yeah because a sma yeah smart minute is all the process of capturing the minutes automatically it is diva okay but it is diva we can say the p diva d i v a something like that the 3rd one is call the 3rd one is the project that i have to improve the current smart meeting room at idiap for that we will use yeah a tape 3 okay let us call that free and the last one i would like just mention just to for the meeting and this is the fire wire i do not know if you saw my presentation during my turn you did you yeah okay e which is firewire okay so i will start just with the smac so maybe i draw line here so the smac the smac project the smac project is a project which aims to do the acquisition of audio video and slide for presentation yeah this project is done with fribourg and cern but i am just going to make a very short graphic in fact they use a card a video card which is call i v c yeah does not matter yeah i just write i v c in fact this is a video card with 4 inputs on these 4 inputs you can have only video but they want to make also the slide acquisition so on one input they put a conversion box a converter which converts from slide to video so that mean that we decrease the the quality we have a high quality in slide and we go to low quality to lower quality with video so this one is just for the smac now i will just move and this the 3 of those are the v the the video d yeah these one are just for video and audio you can use them and this board does the divx compression on the fly this is the box that we have on the table the the card that we have on the table and i would like to add that this c i think it is quite ambitious project because it is with the cern and they w they already worked on a european project called indico where they they have release deliver a full kind of conference software and to to manage all the the conference aspects we have in a conference automatically and i know that at fribourg they installed already in in a in a big amphitheater for students and i guess it is currently working ah no either just to in parentheses we did not choose that that solution because they had no the the slides were not captured very in a very precise way that is the point okay otherwise they it is fully automatic or have have you discussed with them did you discuss that is it fully automatic you do not know i do not know okay well i suppose i suppose they can capture things right i think i mean do not s i do not see why you could not capture the videos i mean with a card like this but the p i but i i it all synchronize and i is it doing all what we want but without the slide precision i do not know i mean i do not know but l let be careful okay yeah there is one important point the technical aspects of the way you acquire things should be driven by the kind of processing you want to have so in our case we need to have a good processing of slides that in our case it means to transcribe with an 0 c r and then make indexing we need to have high resolution image i guess that is what you mean by precision right yeah so in a sense that is the point for us we need to have this sufficient resolution images of slides to do what we want to do so that is why i guess we do not follow that solution and okay because apparently yeah and we are su and we are sure that in that context of smac project with fribourg working on document analysis there were not enough precision un enough resolution in the slides as far as i know so far they did similar works on meetings document centered meetings they always worked on manual transcriptions of documents yeah so they never really took into account a possibility of actually performing processing on the document they talk about during the meeting during in this case the the talk okay talk conference the conference the the th the presentation as far as i know as far as they published i kn i know the results they published so far so essentially they n never took into account i mean the work at the high level which means basically we have the information coming from here and there and we n created techniques that allow to starts from the text there and the things that are said and w if we find context i mean they make some kind of processing but as they do not work on the low level so low level it means basically okay take the speech and extract the transcription i take the image of the document and i take the transcription they basically do not really care of this aspect as far as i understand okay well as far as i as far as i know i mean they do of course they can do of course slide detection as far as i know change slide change detections which of course what i understood is also they try to recover the layout somehow i mean given the slides but they are in no case they are extracting the text from the slides yeah so with in in all the cases what i have seen in all the cases i have seen i mean they s assume that at least you have like a p d f version of the document or what exactly and basically they try to match what is displayed to the document so 1st they need to extract the information from the document which is not does not seem to be so trivial okay exactly at least for because they are also working with maybe more complex documents with images and text and so on yeah maybe with slides it is ea it is easier to extract the information i assume it is ea it is easier indeed but they assume basically that they have this document yeah which is something somehow we would like to relax because people like in it is you may not want each time to ask the person maybe the person has a point not the not a p d f version or maybe he is using excel to do a demonstration or something like this and we will want to avoid this let us say that it makes less automatic in the sense that at point you need someone giving the file and putting the file upload in somewhere et cetera to c to capture and it is a different kind of processing some way is always driven by w what you are able to do yeah yeah they work a lot on layout analysis i know they match the layout in 2 x m l files et cetera so it is a different way of approaching the problem which means a different way of capturing different exigencies in in capturing the the documents yeah yeah different requirements but but most you would say most most of the points for us i mean would be valid i mean slide transition we would use slide need to do it slide transition yep yeah yep to some extent we would like to extract some elements of the layout to disting to have a more high analysis yeah but we would like to do this more automatically and in particular for the text recognition to do to be able to do retrieval of slides or points i mean of parts of presentation we would like not to have to rely yeah to a 1st p d f version or any version of the document so yeah okay so the solution to that low quality is solved b by you project the pas project i make a tick here and i clean up this is just to to solve that pro that problem regarding the slide and the slide resolution so we remove that part and we call that the pas and in that case we use a frame grabber here and we go with the slide here and of course these 2 cards will be on the same machine and we have to develop a solution here the main critical point is here the synchronization between these 2 these 2 cards and with that this is the card that we use in the smart meeting room and this is the card the so the c you have bought this card right i mean you say this is a card yeah these one no no th this one is and this one the video card no no and this one this is the card that we have already at idiap for the sli yeah but i mean this one is the i v c i it is the same as as you have in the picture yeah yeah yeah okay so what i want to say is on this card there are 4 inputs right yep yeah okay yeah not n so enough well yeah yeah so i was thinking to some extent nothing would would prevent us from also acquiring the slide but really the slide stream from from this card indeed right or okay yeah yeah yeah so we can have both we can have the slide from the slide capture and we can just use a video signal to to capture that also yeah okay to capture the slide yeah okay to have 2 t you wants to ha do you have 2 quality h high quality and well i mean just because we cannot rec we can w something we cannot do with it seems for with the high q quality capture device is to have a stream i mean the stream right the full stream yeah we can just take some snapshots so we can tape snapshots yeah so basically it might be interesting to have still the s the slide stream so that for instance if we detect there is a new video that is displayed also on to some extent we could just cut this videos to keep it and to be able to replay it later on and so on yeah yeah yeah yeah and maybe indeed if for instance the slide stream on the on the right is automatically synchronized with the other parts of the video yeah it may be easier to s to synchronize directly by some some matching process the slides the high quality measures we have here we have directly yeah yeah yeah with this one so yeah you will not yeah yeah so you you would you c you can link like this yeah yeah something like like say something like that yeah exactly yeah yeah yep so at least this is not at the electronic level but you would say as a contents from the content level doing an alignment from the slide stream and from the snap shots we would have on the other side w is something that might be possible yeah of course if we have some you know some constraints given by the electronic i mean it is that is better because of course 1st the process is going to be easier and it may be just a few signals that we have to align on the other parts yep but i think i could see i could imagine that this could be a reasonable process to do and it especially because this would solve some of the issues regarding i mean like the possibility of d of displaying videos after from from what we record yeah yeah ch yeah video yeah yeah yep definitely so yeah okay so i was just talking about the pas project maybe i would like just now to talk about the diva project so i clean up yeah i there did you read something regarding the diva project well this is more or less what we just discussed right if i understand in fa yeah we just remember that here we we still have only one machine to do the slide video and audio acquisition and the diva it was something different fact we have a master machine that is we have a master machine here and we have some slaves machine here we have some connection and here we have some input we have audio usually we have audio and and the same for this one and basically on the slave machine we have 2 cards one for audio and one for video so they develop something to synchronize these 2 cards together and th this is something which is it is more w which is call direct show which allows you to to synchronize these 2 cards together and but of course you want these 2 streams to be synchronize but you want also these 2 streams to be synchronized so they have a synchronization between 2 slaves which is done by the master here we just use the et ethernet network to synchronize these 2 these 2 device i just write internet something like that and they do only audio and video they do not do any slide slide acquisition yeah acquisition okay so yves asked for the diva i would like just to talk now regarding the the fire free smart meeting room at idiap do you have any question tape free or tape free what yeah tape free sorry tape free d v tape free tape free smart meeting room so for that i so like the diva project is a tape free already smart meeting room huh yes yeah it is yeah it is a tape free but also video and the acquisition is done in raw video so the file is huge and they really need they have a long post processing to convert raw file to divx or to our own files okay but this can be done automatically right i mean is the okay yeah but it takes time it it is just just to mention that so i will write and that is what you they use more or less in t n 0 also they did not have tapes but with different cards yeah so at t n 0 they have something yeah yeah they had something ah okay okay okay for the ami project so maybe 1st i will just describe the ma the smart meeting room that we have at idiap yeah okay no no that is what i was thinking in fact we have also a master slave architecture i clean a little bit we have the master p c which take ks which takes care about the audio i clean that and we have the slave p c which take cares about the white board and the slides now if we look at the video if we look at the video in fact yeah maybe 1st i should mention that between the master and the slave we have the a synchronization signal which is call time midi time code yeah i just write midi and for the video we have the video input here we re use the midi signal with to insert the time code on each frame and we save that to d v recorder i i have video okay we know the problem of that that this is that after each meeting somebody has to take care about the d v tapes and to t convert them into divx so my idea is to d do something like that is to develop a s a video slave machine may i say something like that yeah a video slave machine which use the midi which use also the midi time code no sorry sorry i am doing something wrong we have the video here we just have the time code inserter so we take that signal here and we move to this machine here which is in fact just the i v c video card this just an acquisition card and we com and we s and we convert file directly to divx and so we will have here video and also because we want to control that machine we use also the midi time code the midi time code to start and to stop the machine this is just something that this just to remove the d v recordings but yeah just this just an improvement of the smart meeting room okay do you have any question regarding that yeah so currently because there is a time code video time code you do not care about the frame dropping i mean because anyway in each in the video signal it is encoded the time right yeah we do not have to care about the synchronization in that case because the time code is ins serted here and we take after the time code insertion we take the video signal and we pass through the machine yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so this is a simple solution but where we do not have to care about the synchronization okay because the synchronization problem comes from the the grabbing from the d v tape in in d in d vix co yeah the synchronization is yeah so it is afterwards well but you do not i mean at this point you do not really care because i mean in the signal you can extract the time i mean the time stamp is i in the signal so if you drop some frame which happens sometimes when you do compression or acquisition you you ev you will automatically find this in the signal right yeah i mean it is encoded in the in the image so you can you can do it yeah otherwise if there is some frame dropping you have to rely on the number of frames you are counting more or less i suppose to to assess it yeah 0 no it is impossible yeah so you have you have some problems then yeah okay okay so the f last one is the fire wire acquisition i just which i which was more or less t n 0 s problem okay with respect to frame dropping right they did not have too much fun grabbing the problem is was that it was not synchronized so the time code was wrong for for the different videos they had the at the beginning of the video you if you saw the time code it was 6 hours ni 50 minutes and h there 4 hours 32 minutes yeah so it is it was a problem with the time code well i think if it was not a problem of frame dropping the alignment would have been quite easy to to do well that is what they did manually after the afterwards and the but they did not have too much frame drops in fact no they d yeah yeah yeah i am sure really well so it was not such a difficult process then because well it is manual to to synchronize it the frame yeah but if it is only to find one of set you have to find some exa some examples yeah that is what they did but i i had the feeling that they had also some frame dropping that was no no no because we did the software here and it they did not choo no our software okay okay then that is fine okay in fact the the major problem regarding acquisition system is always the synchronization and for that fire wire is good i mean fire wire was a project now the project is stand by we do not move to that project i am but i am just going to talk about this one so with acquisition with acquisition systems the major problem the major problem is the synchronization and fire wire gives you some some way to be synchronize in fact this is i just want to to describe here the bus this yeah this is of the bus where you can send you can send some package and any device we which wants to send a package a p a packet sorry should ask there is a manager of that bus packet this just of the bus any device which wants to send a packet has to r to r require some band width on the bus on the bus and so after that he will have that band width and he will always have that band width so yeah he will always have that band width and so we are sure that we will have a synchronize acquisition with fire wire and so so that mean that and this is no no no yeah yeah sorry sorry yeah and this is done at the you have libraries hardware et et cetera to to choo well a all you you are saying about asking about band width et cetera it th when y you use a system hardware it is i it is done by it is done by hardware yeah yeah it is done by hardware so we do not have to code all the communication process et cetera no no no no no and in fact yeah so just for explanation i i as i mentioned before we have a bus manager and the bus manager send just a flag to say now it is time to give me you data and all devices which have required some band width will send the data so i am just drawing something like that this is this kind of signal that the th bus manager is sending and just after that bus just after that signal all device will send the data so we will have the data from a from b and from c and so on and after the next one we will have again the the data from a b and c and so on and so on and so with fire wire we are sure to have a an acquisition system now the major problem with fire wire is that that fire wire is just an kind of intelligent a smart pipe a synchronized pipe we can put what we want inside so we can put raw data or we can send a divx data or we can send also what i was presenting in my term presentation was a h 264 but in that case we need something hardware here to uncode raw data to a given format of course the idea is to reduce the band width on the bus also and all data are sent through the master do you have any quest yeah now basically we have all this kind of general view about all the systems maybe we can take this opportunity to come back to our system because you know we had there are we had the long discussion and finally we decided for for one approach yeah and maybe take the opportunity to look just a moment at what point we are and w when we plan basically to get something done and working i can add to that list of project is something that jean marc and me we have found in the literature there is f x that is doing something very similar to to what we do here basically yes a capture through the projector signal of the slides and they for the moment they just plan to use the slides as a as a way to index the presentations but but roughly is is an idea that is very similar to to our idea so well essentially now we have the material as far i am as i am understood and it is up to you to tell us roughly when do you think we are going to have something working okay yeah so we need well this is will be done together t like in to to try to divide the time what do we do we we do not want today to to put deadlines you know but what we have what we can do and how we will be able to do i was thinking for instance in th in what we have because i do not know a lot about using like d l l m f c microsoft software but i am very happy to to go with that and so what we have until now is the software that darren did for the frame grabbing and and actually i c i can start playing and looking at the this in detail so darren software about frame grabbing sup i suppose m f c c no not m f c c but m e m f c you heard of that and d l l et cetera the all the windows pro programming issues yeah so this is one step then the audio video card so so 1st we need to look at this to look at the demos that are i with the what they call the s d k software development kit yeah demos test testing the card with only one audio for instance and then only one video and e even testing with only the slides to capture all the like what you were saying the the s the video s stream yeah well slide stream in fact the slide card l sorry the slide card and the video card are both s d k the frame so what you mean the frame grabbing card yeah yeah both are s d k they have s d k software development kit that is based on m f c libraries and c +plus libraries yeah yeah y yeah yeah this for that you i do not remember by how okay no okay but so once you we have tested the individually the card we can test to synchronize the audio and the video together or is it no it is synchronized usually audio audio and video should be synchronized or okay because this just an on an audio video channel okay so they are synchronize so we can play with the video we can play with the slide and after that and the major point is to m combine both okay and the i th now we are as you said what not now but the next point would be to use that card with the other card and to merge the slide signal with the yep well the s yeah the synchronization signal coming from the frame grabbing card it is it is it is not a synchronization signal it is a slide with a t we we do not have synchronization oui oui yeah we will we have to find a solution and for that might be we can use direct show which is a syn which is a technique to synchronize different device and is is it external to this card it is external no no or it is i this is just an application which i so it is external it is not in this card no no no no no no this not on the card this just an application that runs on the machine and we do not have to buy that or well to to at least the basic f i think direct show you can download for free i am i am not sure m i should check okay and that will will will be will help us to synchronize the this frame grabbing card and this video card or yeah it m yeah so t yeah we need to do some tests reading and yeah okay and then when we have okay where do we do that he we do not know yet with frank if we install this card maybe here i think the best thing to do is to have a machine just which is only dedicated to to that because if you if you if you if you use a machine which has been already used for something else sometimes you have plenty of libraries okay and at idiap it is possible there and so you you do not know exactly okay maybe it would be better to have just a dedicated machine just for that careful because the i listened to frank and apparently do not want to buy a new machine before we show that this works just for okay so we have to use material that is already available okay yeah but maybe there are already some machines you know maybe there is some free ma machine that is not well on my machine his machine or this machine maybe okay s so it is possible to use other machines actually yeah yeah i mean just that you know if of course you do not want to have a c other libraries that may you know conflict with the one you are trying to use at the same time yo see if you crash a machine i mean because you are doing some test you may not want to have what is on your machine i mean to to be to be de erased or whats whatever yeah yeah yeah okay so i think it is so maybe there is a machine i do not know whether for this you need you know a very powerful machine and so on issue but maybe there is a possibility to use a current machine which is only u yeah that is is withdrawn from the network or yeah yeah yeah some of some other machine yeah i i oui because because i think the video is done the video compression is done on the on that card and i am not 100% sure the card but i think the j peg the j peg conversion for the slide capture is done also on the card so we do not need yeah but still i mean even if it is done on the card you need to basic thing you need to check is is a bus right i mean the bus writing i mean the speed of the bus ah yeah yeah but i mean yeah i was just thinking about the the speed of the computer could be lower yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so c p u itself may not be so the access yeah so in terms of time what we can think so yeah when we can expect to see so can we expect a christmas gift yeah christmas 27 christmas gift or early new year gift no no yeah that is good question maybe a 1st so solution will be just to start w with because we need to start with something we have the slide capture from darren we have i will work on the video acquisition for the inpu the tape free smart meeting room so i will start with that to develop some knowledge regarding that board that video board and after that we can combine both but the way of course i am i i do not know exactly what the work involves yeah alexandre did not care too much about the way you i no no no but you are more in research so is this no that is not that i do not care but i d i do not understand some way exactly i think the the the real point is when okay i said at the beginning of the meeting that well we are not d doing deadlines roughly i mean i i do not say well no no no but yeah i do not want to put a deadline yeah but given the current material we have given your activities because i know that you both are involve in many other things no no yeah yeah yeah so it is something that you yeah as jean marc said is christmas and so we are happy with the christmas gift or is something that you say is christmas 2006 so i i i definitely just want to know something very rough on when you expect to finish this for instance i mean the test of looking at their entry goes point by point yeah so looking at their code i mean so you said you would look at this right or is it okay ye well we would look both at because we are also both quite busy with other projects of course e h f e s database with j ferret that is problem that is that is a problem i mean do you think it is something for the very next months do you think it is something for the end of next year do you think sp okay this is between both no for not for no no this not for end of next year it is too long yeah of course yeah and it it is it is too long it is too long so is for so half next year so june june june 2006 for myself i would like to say april may april may we should have results re results what does it mean the end of this so it works it does not work no no no i mean the not al almost the the the the complete application ready to be used maybe some minor will appears you know for for me what is important is when it is ready to be use yeah so when i can say start collecting data i start using so data i start playing with this basically the process is ready and we can start having our demo and also because there is a risk that we submitted a project maybe it will be rejected we do not know but potentially we are going to have a student supposed to work in this it will be no not before april 2006 anyway but you know some way we we we we cannot have a students and make him wait one year before he has the material to work yeah we yeah yeah yeah yeah so my point is when kay reasonably roughly i do not do not do not want to have and it is not a deadlines oui well but when do you expect to have the system ready to work working because i mean i mean the i v c system yep i mean it is i so my feeling is that i mean people have expertise in this like in fribourg also yeah yeah so i mean i do not think it should take a lot of time i mean just to look at this right they have i mean at least one month seems to be quite enough for this right yeah th it is a yeah but we start with the i v c we start with the data path the the slide frame grabber yeah yeah and after that is and the question is how to synchroni to to to make both card working together together so this seems to be the main problem as far as as i understand yeah yeah so yeah let us see from fro for checking darren is code et cetera we can expect until and yeah for 01 months or so then the the i i v c w with the people at fribourg have yeah yeah i v c i v c should go faster okay so at fribourg we we have yeah because anyway this is what you are working on right is the i v c but using the signals that are coming i mean so basically it is using the i v c okay yeah i will i am not currently working on it i will start to work on january on that point so but i think okay and then the direct show okay so currently you are not working on this or yeah no no i am not working okay then we need i schedule to to work on that from m so we can say we try to to make something for april yeah but i have also a que make something re that you are using very vague expression but well i i want this to to work in the for the time in the result make something just just just tell me when it is ready mayb and if you think it is it is not before but but must be reasonable i m i mean if you think it will be not before december 2006 say december 2006 so do not try to tell me march or april i w if you already know that it is unrealistic to say that must be realistic you say june 2006 we know it is june 2006 but i would like to say there is many unknown in that project i know i but i would like to say we can make a schedule of that project to just to track to just to see if we track the time table the sure sure but if we do not we we asks for more people maybe h e v s people to to to be slightly involved in that project to be to to respect the date 01 student or yeah yeah well but there is no day to respect it is just to know i mean and if you can have early early warnings in the sense that if you see that there is a major problem somewhere yeah n but is just to know in the sense that really this p this thing has been stop now for quite a long time yeah it n it took a long time to decide what kind of material now we have it it is something that is a pretty good idea we see that other people are working et cetera we are going to lose it some way if if we do not put some and very honestly yeah yeah that that is that is so that is one of the issue i mean that maybe do not know w whether you realize and we can ask help but of course if we have this in 2 years maybe okay it is good we have it but of course it is it is on the it is too long i mean in terms of in term of research i it is too late in terms of research it is too long i i it will it will not be in terms maybe even in terms of innovation i mean if you think about this which is you know what they said no i mean he was speaking about innovation this is probably one an innovation this is innovation yeah yeah and the the i know i am we we see quite well why is working on this right but in 2 years you know if we want to do if we want to build a c t i or transfer technology and something like this you know maybe you c of course okay people will say yeah but there is already something that people have started to put on the market and so on yeah yeah yeah so it maybe not the it is it is too late to to do it so i think this is really so this is one of the points respect to research of course it is i think it is going to appear more more and more and you know in a sense i never tried for example eventually to ask for one person dedicated to this because i always had the feeling that you are very interested you wanted to do it it is something you some way you i mean it seems to be something that is interesting to you but if you have not the time and the possibility to do it because you you both are involved in many other things we can eventually try to ask to have one person to involve one person that will be dedicated strictly to this we can try i mean we can ask in the sense that if it is a priority for idiap so far we would get very good signals from that point of view yeah i i do not know but please if you think you do not have the time or the energy to do it or it involves too many things that you cannot keep under control given the other things you have to do do not think that okay something nice we we can wait or sooner or later it will happen no no no no we understand that you we cannot wait we were here one year ago i do not know yeah and also when it is was going the idea was appearing and exactly so i think it is the moment for you to really realize try to to have a realistic date and if you think there are too many things that you risk to lose control tell it now and we can try to say well we want to do it but basically mael and olivier were the person okay personally i want to be involve in that project a acquisi some no no but but you can be involve in a different way i mean you can eventually have a supervision role in the sense that you think that i i know how to do it i like to do it but i have no time because at a certain point it is a matter of time we can try to to ask but please just do not keep this as a kind of thing yeah i like to do it i like it it is nice et cetera yeah yeah yeah yeah because when when you say here now no i am not going to start to working on this before january for me this surprises me to some extent you know i am i thought i mean you would you would be working on this yeah so if you say okay now it is yeah yeah but at the same time i have some other project i i want to finish those project 1st yeah bu but but here you have to take a responsibility you can not say i like to do it and but then ah but i will do it when i can no oui no i mean the point is that olivier will r you have i mean s since one year you have always been saying that you want to be involved in this and so on so it seems that it has never been a priority so that that is that is the point exactly so if you have no time to put priority at some points and this seems to have been the case during one year on this project i mean you need to say it now i mean that is the point now but for example i have i receive some new project i said that i have no time yet i say i have no time gi now currently i i say some for some project you say that you do not have time yeah yeah yeah okay this is yeah but people will stay will continue to say no no you will find time just to do that project no no okay so now is your responsibility to say i cannot find time the so this is franck if you can not find time you have to say it now and this is also for you at least say this to us and we will see with franck i mean i it is not an accusation we we are all in the same condition and again i mean this is a question so now you are saying you have no time so now you say to us so now we understand and we are maybe after when we if we discuss with franck franck crittin or frank formaz and we will see okay and go and try to see okay apparently he has no time to to work on this so we think it is important and we would like to to do something so what kind of solution as alexandre mentions i do we need to take somebody exactly do we want to do we need to take some intern to work on this and so on and so on do we take to have somebody for contract even if it is not an intern but take somebody for 6 months to work on this i mean but so this a point i mean y i do not know about the other projects you have to do i do not know with who you are discussing about the time you are you can s s spend on each of the project but if y because now you are just telling us you have no time indeed to work on this right yeah okay so so okay s s currently but up to december i do not have time to work on it yeah but i mean c it is yeah but but i plan already i i with i m 2 i i i did i mention that i will have from january 2006 i will have time for that with i m 2 i p one i have a 50% on on i m 2 that is it no i will work fully on that on this point from january 2006 i wi it is 50% no on i m 2 i p one okay maybe in 50% on that so let me pose the question very broadly do you think that we have a person that has this will help you we can ask we can try to ask maybe if some person for 6 months so that your role is simply to help and advise we can try to ask why this was yeah mo yeah w i do not want to talk too much maybe but with sebastien sorry this was maybe his concern and yeah bastien is busy with annotations plus all kind of things maybe we can in the process we can ask for i mean someone more maybe a good thing will be to make a plan to to we say we we will not set the deadline here to work on that well that is what i i was s we are here we split that part in different segments y that is what i was trying to do and i before coming here i just tried to to make a plan y i am sorry but you still do not answer to my my question but i do not answer yeah you are not answering my question w well the let us say april 06 and we do our best with trying to keep you inform with the advancements yeah yeah and if we see early that clearly there i let me pose again the question very clearly if i go to herve i can try and say we are in this situation apparently why do not we take one person 3 months 6 months 4 months that directly advised by olivier and and we can speed up and it should be someone with experience in c +plus m f c consider that it can be difficult of course to find them et cetera and so on yeah well i mean i mean you have people that are aware of m f c or a student do you think it is an option i mean i mean people i suppose at h u v there are some people where i was in le mans in the u b i mean there would be obviously some some students that would be aware of and that could be able to handle this at each yeah i think there are people yeah yeah the yeah i mean they are working with software and hard both our software and hardware do you think it is a reasonable option i am i am sure the s se do you think it is something that can help you because that is just a matter of responsibility for you guys to but there is nothing bad if you say you have other things to do because we are all full of work this is something that is added on the top if you do not have time you do not have time guys i mean this is but please just tell me we will find the time however so april 06 you will have your system or no we are not sure we do not really know it can happen that we do not we do not know what you are going to find on the way maybe we think it takes one week and then it takes one month w we do not know maybe we will s we wi will not able to be continuous because one of the wrongest thing is to work one week then one month no et cetera that is it is something that breaks i mean difficult huh so that is the point so that which does not mean you are excluded f from the thing in the sense that in any case someone will ask will have to advise the person eventually no no no and it can not be him it can not be me it can be you that basically follow advise helps but at least the mass of the work will be done by someone else that can spend a 100% of time on that now it is not even guaranteed in the sense that i can ask this i can say that well this is the situation and you are or eventually yeah someone can say okay now this become your priority forget about everything else and go with that i do not know or will tell you okay january 2006 but from january 2006 you do nothing else than this you know w we can find the time whether it is your time whether it is the time of someone else no but i really would like to stop with this because this has been for several months that you say we like we want and i am sure i believe you but then it is always something that must be done outside the normal activity no no no yeah yeah which is really bad yeah i i understand exactly i am i am sorry yeah yeah yeah yeah but but otherwise i mean as you say to do it in 2 years p no i understand yeah yeah yeah so what do you think what you like that i try to to to solve this problem and try to say that there is a time problem and you do not have the time to do it because so so olivier says it is not before january on his side so i am not sure about on your side whe what is your yeah well i would like to to to work on p kind of part time w 0 yeah like what one day a week something like this yeah and one full day a week and i would okay maybe you will not like my answer but i would say that we ch we we start but we h we really have to start on working wi reading all the code from darren then this card with the code i v c card and to to try this then we try a little bit direct show to see to to have an idea of how how long that could be and then at the moment we can say okay we need someone to help us okay but that can be yeah but i think yeah that will be good just to have a plan and to have some deadline in that plan but but and as soon as we we we as soon as we we we are not in time we we we con well w let us do that let us do that okay fo because because there are there are several issues i would say like if there would be a machine like this with the 2 cards separated as i mention i mean if we record le the flow of the video for instance and the snap shots from the slides to some extent there is some possibility of doing some automatic alignment without having a special you know synchron so this means that to some extent we could have a device which would not yet be fully synchronized and i do not know we have you know very well done code in terms of sending signals and so on but that might be sufficient because i mean it synchronize up to do not know 5 seconds yeah yeah yeah and you would say 5 seconds may seem a lot for audio and video but maybe f respect to slides and the rest is not is something that may be tolerable it can be tolerable yeah yeah so still we would be able to start doing some recordings and maybe doing even the automatic alignment or at least we would have an idea about exactly you know what are the problems in terms of alignments do do because it is not like with microphone arrays where you would need micro 2nd alignments of course yeah or even maybe with we want video where it may be one or 2 frames i do not know so this is really some somehow i mean the the the issue i mean i am sure that there are plenty of possibilities to do things it is a very good idea yeah and the goal would be that indeed we could start rec doing some of the recordings of the time so that indeed we would already we we would have something where we could start getting the data yeah and to improve the system like because after i mean even if it there we cannot put all the times in one week right i mean so and so i mean this is this is one of the issue as well yeah which is to have it so that we can play and we can make a nice demo and so on with the full thing and something so f the other part is to have a system which from which we can already record data and with some approximation and i have the feeling given the descriptions that you made yeah that to have such a system would not require a 6 months of work because basically their own code is there to some extent and the i v c is something quite standard from which we could ask i mean even we could even pay maybe pro some people from fribourg i do not know i mean to come here and to and to help us with the installation on a computer and and to to to get the so i have more the feeling that this is something that could be done almost in one month yeah yeah to again i am not speaking about the synchronization i mean as so without direct show you mean the frame grabbing signal and time alignment yep yeah i mean the 2 yeah yeah wi that would be done in like in common software that we have afterwards yeah and we yeah the for instance a simple question maybe you can are we sure that it can work on a single computer i do not know i do not know i mean is there any issues with respect to this okay th and this point is about testing and yeah i no so this is yeah okay let me so it does not require it it is more testing it does not require so for this we i mean if you put the 2 cards on the computer you put the 2 then you you basically you say play on the both sides and you look whether at the end you have a recorded signals which is is is the time that it should be and or whether i mean the fact that whenever i mean the slides is doing some processing it there is some and there is some frame drops or things like this yeah yeah so you could say okay let us for christmas let us try this without the all the synchronization so this is with direct show issue okay 0 yeah you are you cannot or 0 l by doing 11 day a week you know just i think the cards yeah that seems to me clear until january is is busy yeah if i if i say until january this is just to finish so i want to have the deadline at end of december to finish all my project i want to finish all these project when everything is finished okay ah so yeah just to go to a conclusion because apparently yeah after that i can move to another one but i do not want to so it can not work yeah exactly anyway the recording is finished i think yeah can not work until january yeah no no so i try my best until january so it is up to you it is up to you to evaluate yeah and and i try to do what jean marc described to give you a 1st feedback on the different cards and and from there it would m yeah and then we d make a decision in the sense whether you continue working or we try to find the time in a different way or we try to eliminate your other priorities you are under yeah yeah i am i am wondering whether still we could ask for to get an intern for this yep i i do not know regarding h e v s i mean i do not know if this is still in time but you can have you can ask for a student a d a diploma work yeah this is still even even the non diploma work i mean the things we could ask but i would yeah i think that is that is a different problem the problem is really up to you guys whether you think it is good to have one person yeah try to have that because i cannot say we have tried to have i would say let us let us yeah let us try to have one students to help us on that yeah i do not know that is very well we have to choose whether the students it is too it would be stupid well you w exactly it wi but better no person than a bad person anyway yeah that is that is the issue but the the student should have knowledge about m f c with 0 okay yeah well but yeah yeah yeah yeah okay okay does not mean that we d we have to to stop talking yet i think it is but the recording has finished
we have the a tour of control so i think we organized this meeting just to discuss i do not have my presentation to discuss the project that is on leonevo and jean marc proposed about capturing audio video and slides in a synchronized way and so we will start with an introduction i think olivier prepared some slides about reviewing current systems and then even if we do not have many things to talk about just to start discussing about clearly the project and also dealing with our kind of timing constraints okay and they are on the tape the usb card does not work and you did not put on the no no maybe you can access to the network if it is on your age or it is on your d machine my d machine so maybe we will be able to just going what keep going so so yeah we had like 5 slides presenting different systems and maybe we can do that at the whiteboard it is a bit stupid but i think you remember well the different parts and i am sure we can do that at the whiteboard i will do something like that yeah it would be great to use the whiteboard okay so like just to review the different project regarding acquisition system so basically there are 5 systems the 1st one is called smac ideco which is developed by fribour and cern the 2nd one is your system i would like to say the cheap meeting room system the 3rd one yeah maybe i can share that so the the 1st one is a smac the smac yeah should i write yeah maybe okay just a review of current yeah sure that is interesting the 1st one is i will call that a smack which is developed by freibour and cern the 2nd one b which is alessandro i would like to say cheap meeting room or i do not know it is okay cheap meeting room well cheap meeting room is the you know but for the moment for the moment it is just to understand each other so we know i thought it was called pass yeah yeah but pass it is a b a s okay p a s the 3rd one is the 3rd one is like a lassandra pas the 3rd one is called this is a the 3rd one is called this is a the smart meeting room developed at fribeau which is called the smart minute but diva nispa diva because the smart minute is all the process of capturing the minutes automatically but it is diva diva diva d i v a something like that the 3rd one is called the 3rd one is the project that i have to improve the current smart meeting room at ediap for that we will use type 3 yeah tape 3 okay let us call that free and the last one i would like just to mention just for the meeting this is the fire wire i do not know if you saw my presentation during my time you did you okay e which is fire wire so i will start just with the smack so maybe i draw a line here so the smack the smac project is a project which aims to do the acquisition of audio video and slide for presentation this project is done with freeburg and serb but i am just going to make a very short graphic in fact they use a card a video card which is called ivc yeah i just write ivc in fact this is a video card with 4 inputs on these 4 inputs you can have only video but they want to make also the slide acquisition so on one input they put a conversion box a converter which converts from slide to video so that means that we decrease the quality we have a high quality in slide and we go to low quality to lower quality with video and so this one is just for the smack now i will just move and the 3 others are the yeah these one are just for video and audio you can use them and this board does the dvx compression on the fly this is the box that we have on the table the car that we have on the table and i would like to add that this i think it is quite ambitious project because it is with the sun and they already worked on a european project called indico where they have released deliver a full kind of conference software software and to manage all the conference aspects we have in a conference automatically and i know that at fribour they installed already in a big amphitheater for students and i guess it is currently working and just in parentheses we did not choose that solution because they had no the slides were not captured very precise way that is the point otherwise it is fully automatic are you discussed with them did you discuss that is it fully automatic you do not know i do not know okay well i suppose they can capture things right i do not see why you could not capture other videos i mean we work out like this but is it all synchronized and is it doing all what we want but without the slide precision i do not know let us be careful there is one important point the technical aspects of the way you acquire things should be driven by the kind of processing you want to have so in our case we need to have a good processing of slides that in our case it means to transcribe with an ocr and then make indexing indexing we need to have high resolution image i guess that is what you mean by precision yeah right so in a sense that is the point for us we need to have this sufficient resolution images of slides to do what we want to do so that is why i guess we do not follow that solution and we are sure that in that context of smac project with the freebrew working on document analysis there were not enough precision and enough resolution in the slides as far as i know so far they did similar works on meetings document centered meetings they always worked on manual transcriptions of documents so they never really took into account the possibility of actually performing processing on the document they talked about during the meeting or during in this case the talk the talk the conference the presentation as far as i know as far as they published i know the results they published so far so essentially they never took into account i mean they work at the high level which means basically we have the information coming from here and there and we create the techniques that allow to start from the text there and the things that are said and we find contacts i mean they make some kind of processing but as they do not work on the low level so low level it means basically okay i take the speech and extract a transcript i take the image of the document and i take the transcription they basically do not really care of this aspect as far as i understand as far as i know as far as i know i mean they do of course they can do of course slide detection which of course what i understood is also they try to recover the layout somehow i mean given the slides but in no case they are extracting the text from the slides so this in all the cases what i have seen in all the cases i have seen i mean they assume that at least they have like a pdf version of the document or whatever and basically they try to match what is displayed to the document so 1st they need to extract information from the document which is not does not seem to be so trivial at least for because they also working with maybe more complex documents with images and text and so on maybe with slides it is it is easier to extracts the information i assume it is easier indeed but they assume basically that they have this document which is something somehow we would like to relax because people are like in an affiliate you may not want each time to ask the person maybe the person has a point not a pdf version or maybe is using excel to do a demonstration or something like this and we want let us say that it makes less automatic in the sense that at the point you need someone giving the file and putting the file uploading somewhere etc and it is a different kind of processing someone is always driven by what you are able to do they work a lot on layout analysis i know they match the layout into xml files etc so it is a different way of approaching the problem which means a different way of capturing different exigencies in capturing the documents but most you would say most most of the points for us i mean would be valid i mean slide transition we would use slide you need to do slide transition to some extent we would like to extract some elements of the layout to this thing to have a more higher analysis but we would like to do this more automatically and in particular for the text recognition to do to be able to do retrieval of slides or points i mean of parts of presentation we would like not to have to rely yet to the 1st pdf version or any version of the documents okay so the solution to that is low quality is solved by u project the pass project make a tick here and i clean up this is just to to solve that problem regarding the slide and the slide resolution so we remove that part and we call that the pass and in that case we use a frame grabber here and we go with the slide here and of course these 2 chords will be on the same machine and we have to develop a solution here the main critical point is here the synchronization between these 2 these 2 chords with that this is the car that we use in the smart meeting room and this is the car the so you have bought this card right i mean you see this one no no this one is this one the video call and this one this is the card that we have already at edir for the yeah but i mean this one is the ivc it is the same as you have in the picture so what i want to say is on this card there are 4 inputs right yeah okay yeah so well yeah i was thinking to some extent nothing would would prevent us from also acquiring the slide but really the slide stream from from this card indeed right or okay yeah yeah yeah so we can have both we can have the slide from the slide capture and we can just use a video signal to to capture that also okay to have to you want to do you want to have 2 quality high quality and well i mean just because we cannot we can something we cannot do with it seems for with a high quality capture device is to have a stream i mean the stream right the full stream yeah we can just take some snapshots we can take snapshots so basically it may be interesting to have still the slight stream so that for instance if we detect there is any videos that is displayed or so on to some extent we could just cut these videos to keep it and to be able to replay it later on and so on and maybe indeed if for instance the slide stream on the on the right is automatically synchronized with the other parts of the video it may be easier to to synchronize directly by some some matching process the slides the high quality images we have here with this one yeah you will not yeah so you would yeah you can link like something like that yeah exactly yeah yeah so at least this is not at the electronic level but you would say at the content from the content level doing an alignment from the slides stream and from the snapshots we would have on the other side with something that might be possible of course if we have some constraints given by the electronic i mean that is better because of course 1st the process is going to be easier and it might be just a few seconds that we have to align on the other parts but i think i could see i could imagine that this could be a reasonable process to do yeah yeah especially because this would solve some of the issues regarding i mean the possibility of displaying videos after from what we record definitely okay so i was just talking about the past project maybe i would like just now to talk about the diva project so i clean up yeah i do not know yeah did you read something regarding the diva project well this is more or less what we just discussed right in fact yeah we just remember that here we still have only one machine to do the slide video and audio acquisition in the diva it was something different in fact we have a master machine let us we have a master machine here and we have some slaves machine here we have some we have some connections and here we have some inputs we have audio usually we have audio and and the same for this one for this one and basically on the slave machine we have 2 cards one for audio and one for video so they develop something to synchronize these 2 cards together and this is something which is a product which is called a direct show which allows you to synchronize these 2 cards together but of course you want these 2 streams to be synchronized but you want these 2 streams to be synchronized but you want also these 2 streams to be synchronized so they have a synchronization between 2 slaves which is done by the master here we just use the ethernet network to synchronize these 2 devices i just write internet something like that and they do only audio and video they do not do any slide any slide slide acquisition yeah okay so it was for the diva i would like just to talk now regarding the the fire free smart meeting room at adiap do you have any question tape free that tape free sorry tape free type free smart meeting room so for that all right so like the diva project is a tape free yes yeah it is a tape free but also video are the acquisition is done in raw video so the file is huge and they really need a they have a long processing to convert raw file to dvx or to r files okay but this can be done automatically right yeah but it takes time it is just just mention that so i will write and that is what you they use more less in tno so they did not have tapes but with different cards yeah yeah yeah yeah they had something okay okay so maybe 1st i will just describe the smart meeting room that we have at hedip in fact we have also a master slave architecture i clean a little bit we have the master pc which takes care about the audio i clean that and we have the slave pc which takes care about the whiteboard and the slides now if we look at the video if we look at the video in fact maybe 1st i should mention that between the master and the slave we have a synchronization signal which is called time which is called midi time code i just write midi and for the video we have the video input here we reuse the midi signal with to insert the time code on each frame and we save that to dv recorder video okay we know the problem of that that this is that after each meeting somebody has to take care about the dv tapes and to convert them into dvx so my idea is to do something like that is to develop a video slave machine may i say something like that a video slave machine which use the midi which use also the midi time code no sorry sorry i am doing something more we have the video here we just have the time code insertor so we take that signal here and we move to this machine here which is in fact just the ibc see video card this is just an acquisition call and we convert file directly to dvx and so we will have here video and also because we want to control that machine we use also the midi time code the midi time code to start and to stop the machine this is just something like that this just to remove the dv recordings but yeah just this just an improvement of the smart meeting okay do you have any question regarding that yeah so currently because there is a time code video time code you do not care about the frame dropping i mean because anyway in each frame in the video signal it is encoded time right yeah we do not have to care about the synchronization in that case because the time code is inserted here and we take after the time code insertion we take the video signal and we pass through the machine so this is a simple solution but where we do not have to care about the synchronization because the synchronization problem comes from the the grabbing from the dv tape yeah the synchronization is in divix so it is afterwards well but you do not i mean at this point you do not really care because i mean in the signal you can extract the time i mean the time stamp is in the signal so if you drop some frame which happens sometimes when you do compression or acquisition you will automatically find this in the signal right i mean it is encoded in the image so you can do it yeah otherwise if there is some frame dropping you have to rely on the number of frames you are counting more than i suppose to it is impossible yeah so you have some problems okay okay so the last one is the fire wire acquisition i just which was more or less tno problem okay with respect to frame dropping right they did not have too much frame dropping the problem is it was not synchronized so the time code was wrong for the different videos they had the beginning of the video you if you saw the time code it was 6 hours 50 minutes and there 4 hours 32 minutes so it was a problem with the time well i think if it was not a problem a frame dropping the alignment would have been quite easy to do well that is what they did manually after afterwards but they did not have too much frame drops in fact no really yeah i am sure because it was not such a difficult process and well it is manual to synchronize at the yeah but if it is only to find one offset you have to find some examples but i had the feeling that they had also some frame dropping that was no no because we did the software here and they do not okay okay okay that is fine okay in fact the major problem regarding acquisition system is always the synchronization and for that fire wire is good i mean fire wire was a project now the project is standby we do not move to that project but i am just going to talk about this one so with acquisition systems the major problem is the synchronization and fire wire gives you some way to be synchronized in fact i just want to describe here the bus this is the bus where you can send some package any device which wants to send a package packet sorry should ask there is a manager of that bus this just on the bus any device which wants to send a packet has to to require some bandwidth on the bus on the bus and so after that he will have that bandwidth and he will always have that bandwidth so we will always have that bandwidth and so we are sure that we will have a synchronized acquisition with firewire and so that means that and this is yeah sorry sorry no problem no problem yeah you have libraries etc to well all you are saying about asking asking about bandwidth etc it is when you use the system it is done by hardware yeah yeah so we do not have to code all communication and in fact yeah as i mentioned before we have a bus manager and the bus manager send just a flag to say now it is time to give me your data and all devices which have required some bandwidth will send the data so i am just just drawing something like that this is this kind of signal that the bus manager is sending and just after that bus just after that signal all device will send the data so we will have the data from a from b and from c and so on and after the next one we will have again the data from a b and c and so on and so on so with fire wire we are sure to have an acquisition system now the major problem with fire wire is that fire wire is just an kind of intelligent a smart pipe a synchronized pipe we can put what we want inside so we can put raw data or we can send dvx data or we can send also what i was presenting in my time presentation for the h 264 but in that case we need something a hardware here to encode raw data to a given former of course the idea is to reduce the bandwidth on the bus also and all data are sent to the master do you have any questions now basically we have all this kind of general view kind of general view about all these systems maybe we can take this opportunity to come back to our system because we have a long discussion and finally we decided for for one approach and maybe take the opportunity to look just a moment at what point we are and when we plan basically to get something done and working i can add to that list of project is something that chammarc and me we have found in the literature there is fx pal that is doing something very similar to what we do here basically a capture through the projector signal of the slides and for the moment they just plan to use the slides as a way to index the presentations but roughly is an idea that is very similar to our idea so well essentially now we have the material as far as i understood and it is up to you to tell us roughly when do you think we will have something working so we need well this will be done together to try to divide the time what do we do we do not want today to put deadlines you know but what we have what we can do and how we will be able to do i were thinking for instance in what we have because i do not know a lot about using like dll mfc microsoft software but i am very happy to go with that so what we have until now is the software that darren did for the frame grabbing and actually i can start playing and looking at this in detail so darwin software about from grabbing so mfc not mfc and dlr all the windows programming so this is one step step then the audio video card so 1st we need to look at this to look at the demos that are with what they call the sdk software development kit demos testing the card with only one audio for instance and then only one video and even testing with only the slides to capture all the what you were saying the video stream slides stream in fact the slide card and the video card are both sdk you mean the frame grabbing card yeah both are sdk they have sdk a software development kit that is based on mfc libraries yeah c libraries yeah this is for that i do not remember by how no okay so once you we have tested individually the card we can test to synchronize the audio and the video together usually audio and video should be synchronized okay because this is just an audio video channel so they are synchronized so we can play with the video we can play with the slide and after that the major point is to combine both okay and now yeah as you said what not now but the next point would be to use that card with the other card and to merge the slide signal with the well the synchronization signal coming from the from grabbing card it is not a synchronization signal it is a slide with a we do not have synchronization we have to find a solution and for that might be we can use a direct show which is a technique to synchronize different devices and is it external to this card it is external no this is just an application so it is external it is not in this no no no no it is not on the car there is just an application that runs on the machine and we do not have to buy that or well to at least the i think devercho you can download for free i am not sure i should check okay and that will will help us to synchronize help us to synchronize this drawing card and this video card yeah so yeah we need to do some test reading and yeah okay and then when we have okay where do we do that we do not know yet with frank if we installed this card maybe here i think the best thing to do is to have a machine just which is only dedicated to to that because if you if you use a machine which has been already used for something else sometimes you have plenty of libraries and so you do not know exactly maybe it would be better to have just a dedicated machine just for that careful because the i listen to frank and apparently do not want to buy a new machine just for we show that this works okay so we have to use material that is already available okay yeah but maybe there are already some machines you know maybe there is some free machine well my machine his machine or this machine okay so it is possible to use other machines yeah i mean just that you know if of course you do not want to have a of a library that may conflict with the one you are trying to use at the same time if you crash a machine i mean because you are doing some tests you may not want to have what is on your machine i mean yeah to be to be erased or what is whether so maybe there is a machine i do not know whether for this you need you know a very powerful machine and so on but maybe there is a possibility to use a current machine yeah yeah with some other machine yeah because we have drawn from the network because i think the video is done the video compression is done on the on that card and i am not 100% sure but i think the jeep the gpeg conversion for the slide capture is done also on the car so we do not need yeah but still i mean even if it is done on the car the basic thing you need to check is the bus right i mean the bus right ah yeah but i mean yeah i was just thinking about the speed of the computer could be lower yeah yeah yeah yeah so cpu itself may not be so important access so in terms of time what we can think when we can expect to see can we expect a christmas gift a christmas or early new year gift yeah that is a good question maybe a 1st solution will be just to start with because we need to start with something we have the slide capture from daran we have i will work on the video acquisition for the improve the tape free smart meeting room so i will start with that to develop some knowledge regarding that board that video board and after that we can combine both the way of course and i do not know exactly what the work involved i also it is not that i do not care but i do not understand i think the real point is when okay i said at the beginning of the meeting that we were not roughly i mean i do not say well no no no i do not want to put a deadline but given the current material we have given your activities because i know that you both are involved in many other things so it is something that you yeah as jean marc said it is christmas and so we are happy with a christmas gift or it is something that you say is christmas 2006 so i definitely just want to know something very rough and when you expect to finish this for instance i mean the test of looking at darren if we go point by point so looking at darren is code i mean so you said you would look at this right we would look both at this because we are also both quite busy with other projects of course that is the problem that is the problem do you think it is something for the very next month do you think it is something for the end of next year okay this is not for the end of next year it is too long yeah of course it is too long so half next year for myself i would like to say april may april may we should have results results what does it mean the end of this no no no i mean the ready to be used almost the complete application maybe some minor churn will appear for me what is important is when it is ready to be used when i can say i start collecting data data i start using i start playing with this basically the process is ready and we can start having our demo and also because there is a risk that we submitted a project maybe it will be rejected we do not know but potentially we are going to have a student supposed to work in this it will be no not before april 2006 anyway but you know some way we cannot have a student and make him wait one year before he has the material to work so my point is when reasonably yeah roughly i do not want to have any it is not at deadlines but when do you expect to have the system ready to work working because i mean i mean the ivc system i mean it is my feeling is that i mean people have expertise in this like in fribour yeah yeah yeah i do not think it should take a lot of time i mean just to look at this right i mean at least one month seems to be yeah it is a yeah but we start with the ibc we start with the data path the the slide frame grabber and after that is the question is how to synchronize to to make both car working together together so this seems to be the main problem as far as i understand so yeah let us see you for for checking darren is code etc we can expect until for one month or so then the ivc the people at freebuhr have ibc should go faster yeah okay so because anyway we see what you are working on right we have the ivc but using the signals that are coming i mean basically it is yeah i will i am not currently working on it i will start to work on january on that point so okay and then the direct show okay so currently you are not working on this no no i am not working okay i schedule to to rock on that so we can say we try to make something for april yeah but i have also make something you are using very vague expression of result well i want this to work in the just tell me when it is ready and if you think it is not before but must be reasonable i mean if you think it will be not before december 2006 say december 2006 so do not try to tell me march or april if you already know that it is unrealistic to say that it must be realistic if you say june 2006 we know it is june 2006 but i would like to say there is many unknown in that project i would like to say we can make a schedule of that project to just to track just to see if we track the timetable if we do not we ask for more people maybe hgv bs people to be slightly involved in that project to respect the date yeah there is no date to respect it is just to know i mean and if you can have early warnings in the sense that if you see that there is a major problem somewhere but it is just to know in the sense that really this thing has been stopped now for quite a long time yeah it took a long time to decide what kind of material now we have it is something that is a pretty good idea we see that other people are working etc we are going to lose it some way if yeah that is one of the issue i mean that and very honestly i do not know whether you realize this but of course if we have this in 2 years maybe okay it is good we have it but of course it is too long it is a lot in terms of research in terms of research in terms of innovation i mean if you think about this which is you know what they said i mean what was speaking about innovation this is probably one innovation and i know i am we see quite well why fxpal is working on this right but in 2 years you know if we want to do if we want to build a cti or transfer technology and something like this you know maybe of course okay people will say yeah but there is already something that people started to put on the market and so on so maybe not it is too late to do it so i think this is really so this is one of the points respect to research of course i think it is going to appear more and more in a sense i never tried for example eventually to ask for one person dedicated to this because i always had the feeling that you are very interested you wanted to do it it is something new some way you i mean it seems to be something that is interesting to you but if you have no time and the possibility because you both are involved in many other things we can eventually try to ask to have one person to involve one person that will be dedicated strictly to this we can try i mean we can ask in the sense that if it is a priority for idiops so far we got very good signals from that point of view i do not know but please if you think you do not have the time or the energy to do it or it involves too many things that you cannot keep under control given the other things you have to do do not think that okay something nice we can wait no no no we cannot wait we were here one year ago i do not know also when it was so i think it is the moment for you to really realize try to have a realistic date and if you think there are too many things the theory is to lose control tell it now and we can try to say well we want to do it but basically mael and olivier personally i want to be involved in that project but you can be involved in a different way i mean you can eventually have a supervision role in the sense that you think i know how to do it i like to do it but i have no time because at a certain point is a matter of time we can try to to ask but please just do not keep this as a kind of thing i like to do it i like it it is nice etc because when you say here now okay no i am not going to start working on this before january for me this surprises me to some extent you know i thought i mean you would be working on this so if you say yeah but at the same time i have some other project i want to finish those projects 1st but here you have to take a responsibility you can say i like to do it but then but i will do it when i can the point is that olivia i will you have i mean since one year you have always been saying that you want to be involved in this and so on so it seems that it has never been a priority so that is the point so if you have no time to put priority at some points and this seems to have been the case during one year on this project i mean you need to say it now but for example i received some new project i say that i have no time yet i say i have no time now currently i say for some project you say that you do not have time but people will stay will continue to say no no you will find time just to do that project okay so now is your responsibility to say i cannot find time if you can not find time you have to say it now this is also for you at least say this to us and we will see it is not an accusation we are all in the same condition this is a question so now you are saying you have no time so now you say it to us so now we understand and maybe after if we discuss with frank frank frank or frank for us and we will see okay and go and try to see okay apparently he has no time to work on this so we think it is important and we would like to do something so what kind of solution as alexandro mentions do we need to take somebody do we want to do we need to take some intern to work on this and so on and so on do we take to have somebody of a contract even if it is not an intern but take somebody for 6 months to work on this i mean but so this is a point i mean i do not know about the other projects you have to do i do not know with who you are discussing about the time you can spend on each of the project but if because now you are just telling us you have no time indeed to work on this right yeah okay so so currently but yeah but i mean to december i do not have time to rock on it but i plan already i with im 2 with im 2 i did i mentioned that i will have have from january 2006 i will have time for that i have a 50% on im 2 that is it no i will work fully on this point from january 2006 it is 50% on im 2 ip one okay i may be on 50% on that so let me post a question very brutally do you think that we have a person that does this we let you we can ask we can try to ask maybe have some person for 6 months so that your role is simply to help and advise well this was yeah i do not want to talk too much maybe but with sebastian so this was maybe his concern and yeah bastien is busy with annotations all kind of things maybe we can in the process we can ask for someone more maybe a good thing will be to make a plan we say we want the deadline here we are here we split that part in different segments that is what i was trying to do and before coming here i just tried to make a i am sorry but you still do not answer to my question you are not answering my question well let us say april 6 and we do our best with trying to keep you in form with the advancements and if we see early that clearly let me pose again the question very clearly if i go to irv i can try and say we are in this situation apparently why do not we take one person 3 months 6 months 4 months that directly advised by olivier and and it should be someone with experience in plus mfc consider that it can be difficult of course to find in etc do you think it is an option you have people that are aware of mfc i mean i suppose that hv at hv i think there are people where i was in le mans in the u p i mean there would be obviously some students that would be aware of and that could be able to handle this i mean they are working with software and out both are software and hardware do you think it is a reasonable option do you think is something that can help you because that is just a matter of responsibility for you guys to but there is nothing bad if you say you have other things to do because we are all full of work this is something that is added on the top if you do not have time you do not have time guys but please just tell me we will find the time however so april 6 you will have your system or no we are not sure we do not really know it can happen that we do not we do not know what we are going to find on the way maybe we think it takes one week and then it takes one month we do not know maybe we will not able to be continuous because one of the wrongest thing is to work one week then one month no etc it is something that breaks i mean it is difficult so that is the point which does not mean you are excluded from the thing in the sense that in the case someone will ask we have to advise the person eventually and it can not be him it can be me it can be you that basically follow advice help but at least the mass of the work will be done by someone else that can spend 100% of time on that now it is not even guaranteed in the sense that i can ask this i can say that this is the situation and you are or eventually yes someone can say okay now this become your priority forget about everything else and go with that i do not know or we will tell you okay january 2006 but from january 2006 you do not anything else than this we can find the time whether it is your time whether it is the time of someone else but i really would like to stop with this because this has been for several months that you say we like we want and i am sure i believe you but then it is always something that must be done outside the normal activity which is really bad i understand exactly yeah yeah yeah otherwise i mean as i say to do it in 2 years yeah yeah so what do you think you like that i try to solve this problem and try to say that there is a time problem and you do not have the time to do it because so so olivier says it is not before january on this side so i am not sure about on your side what i would like to do what i would like to do to work kind of part time like one day a week yeah yeah and one full day a week and i would okay maybe you want like my answer but i would say that we start but we really have to start and working with reading all the code from darwin and then this card with the code ivc card to try to to try this then we try a little bit direct show to see to have an idea of how long that could be and then at the moment we can say okay we need someone to help us okay that can be but i think that would be good just to have a plan and to have some deadline in that plan well as soon as we are not in time because there are several issues i would say like if there would be a machine like this with the 2 cards separated as i mentioned i mean if we record the flow of the video for instance and the snapshots from the slides to some extent there is some possibility of doing some automatic alignment without having a special you know synchron so this means that to some extent we could have a device which would yet be fully synchronized and i do not know with you know very well done code in terms of sending signals and so on but that might be sufficient because i mean it is synchronized up to you know 5 seconds and you would say 5 seconds might seem a lot for audio and video but maybe for respect to slides and the rest is something that might be terrible so still we would be able to start doing some recordings and maybe doing even the automatic alignment or at least we would have an idea about you know what are the problems in terms of alignments because it is not like with microphone arrays where you need microsecond alignments of course or even maybe without video where it might be one or 2 frames i do not know so this is really somehow i mean the issue i mean i am sure that there are plenty of possibilities to do things and the goal would be that indeed we could start doing some of the recordings of the time so that indeed we would already to improve the system we would have something where we could start getting the data because after i mean even if it is there we cannot put all the times in one week right i mean so yeah and so i mean this is one of the issue as well which is to have it so that we can play and we can make a nice demo and so on with the full thing and something so the other part is to have a system from which we can already record data and with some approximation and i have the feeling even the descriptions that you made that to have such a system would not require 6 months of work because basically darren codes is there to some extent and the ivc is something quite standard from which we could ask i mean even we could even pay maybe some people from fribour i do not know i mean to come here and to help us with the installation on a computer yeah and to get the so i have more the feeling that this is something that could be done almost in one month again i am not speaking about the synchronization so without direct show you mean the frame graphic signal and time alignment yeah yeah that would be done in common software that we have yeah for instance a simple question maybe can are we sure that it can work on a single computer i do not know i do not know okay and this point is about testing and so this is yeah okay so it does not require it is more testing it does not require so for this i mean if you put the 2 cards on the computer you put the 2 then you basically you say play on the both sides and you look whether at the end you have a record of signals which is the time that it should be and whether i mean the fact that whenever i mean the slides is doing some processing it is a record it is the time that it should have been and whether or whether i mean the fact that whenever i mean it is doing some processing it is it is the fact that it is the whatever it is doing some it is the fact it is the the slides is doing some processing there is some burden there is some frame drops so you could say okay let us for christmas let us try this without all the synchronization with direct show issue okay 0 yeah you cannot by doing one day a week you know just testing the cards it seems to me clear until january it is yeah if i say until january this is january this is just to finish i want to have the deadline at end of december to finish all my project i want to finish all this project when everything is finished after that i can move to another one but i do not want to so it can not work yeah exactly it can not work until january so i try my best it is up to you until january and i try to do what john mark described to give you a 1st feedback on the different cards and from there yeah and then we make a decision in the sense whether you continue working or we try to find the time in a different way or we try to eliminate your other priorities for your other i am wondering whether or still we could ask for to get an intern for this yeah i do not know regarding hvs tbs i do not know if this is still in time but you can have you can ask for a student a diploma work yeah this is still even even the non diploma work i mean i think that is that is a different problem it probably is really up to you guys whether you think is good to have one person try to have that because i can not say we have it try to have yeah let us try to have one students to help us on that that is very well we have to choose while the students it is stupid but the student should have knowledge about mfc better no person than a bad person anyway okay does not mean that we have to stop talking but the recording is finished just say a thing to the development that is the point of the time that we have for the development