so hsbc what are you expecting well actually im expecting a quite decent earnings outlook for the second quarter which is in line with the consensus expectation i think on the mens side we can expect that the hong kong nim to recover a little bit from first quarters level because we do see the high bar level to show some recovery in the second quarter and on the ecl charge i may expect a little bit higher is our charge than the first quarter 17 perhaps level and overall im expecting a quite good like high teens year on year profit growth for the second quarter and the royalty improvement should also be on track and actually i think there are a chance that hsbc will revise up their roce target for fy 23 from current 12 to two what target do you think i guess maybe like 15 14 15 because they do deliver a very good roce in first quarter like 19 after the adjustment right now the question for investors too is what did they do with the money and in terms of buybacks for example and giving money back any expectations there for example i think maybe some share buyback as they discussed at the fourth quarter result but on the dividend side i think the dividend policy was like 50 payout for every 23 to 20 but i think that will not be changed in the near term right what about the ping n part of the conversation yeah i think the ping and the conversation has been lacking for quite long too long yeah ive been long for ping ping hsbc and i dont think that well get there to achieve their targets because okay so firstly they need like 75 of their shareholders approval as a threshold npa only has 8 by themselves and think that other major shareholders like they are not supporting pinas proposal and for hsbc itself okay spinning off the asia earnings may may lead to additional cost both one off and ongoing and also i think hsbc do have its strengths and unique position as a international bank so i think hsbc does not have the incentive to like spin off the asia business and i dont expect the ping will achieve their goal at least in the short term okay now just looking at the outlook maybe the next quarter next have you know interest rates are high they might start to fall whats your outlook for nims i think nim has already reached the peak for the for the banks my expectation is that maybe in the second half of the year or if we look at fy 23 the overall level might be a few pips lower than the first quarter level mainly due to the rising funding cost and the term deposit migration so and as the interest rate cycle is coming to an end we may see more downward trend in the f24 okay whats your price target for the stock our current target price is like 648 but it was three months old right yeah published in february so we may have to revise that after this result analyst announcement and what are you looking for specifically what would move your price target i think the key thing ill be watching is still their royalty improvement i think thats the key thing to drive their share price are outperformers in the past few months and i think thats the what investors are mostly concerned like you are not spinning off the asia price asia pot and you are doing international business and can they still achieve a very good return for the shareholders so i think thats a key thing we are going to watch the other you also cover mainland china yeah and recently i mean the market treats this group of stocks like up like a policy too i mean this is really this is how they conduct policy for example yeah and im wondering do you think at the current levels of stocks for example do you think where the market has fully discounted the cost of saving and supporting the economy you know lower rates perhaps discounted loans to the private sector perhaps more provisions because of local government financing how do you look at this i think if you look at the evaluation like the major sorry banks like the big four banks in china like they are trading at 03 times p so thats a distressed almost yeah yeah i think thats already reflected the negative outlook most of the negative outlook is already in price now its already near the historical bottom for those china banks if you look back in fourth quarter last year we also see this china banks also trading at the historical bottom level at around a similar level there were points three and you look at that at that time in fourth quarter last year we are worried about the channel covid policies of the lockdowns we are worried about the suspension of mortgage and we are also worried about the china property sector crackdown so i mean the things are at least a little bit better than what we saw in fourth quarter last year so at this valuation level they were point three times maybe i think it has already reflected most of the negative outlooks for china ibex okay the one of the topics of conversation along the same topic here along the same lines is you know the allure of chinese banks was the dividend ratio was the dividend payout that they offered and some of the reports i wont name the other bank youre probably talking about here that essentially flagged the possibility that some of the payouts might be at risk then we saw that stock tank for some of these banks do you think the payouts of these chinese banks are at risk as far as dividends no i dont think they are very high dividend at risk in the short term so firstly i think in our work we have also do some analysis on the impact from the china algae if we as well as the china property sector and we think that in the best case scenario the the negative impact is controllable and manageable like in our best case scenario analysis the china profit can affect profit will be impacted by 6 and they are down by 05 percentage point if if the algae if we saw some of the algae if we may need some restructuring so in the best case scenario i dont think that their dividend payout will be largely impacted okay yeah but but of course there are challenges for the worst case scenario but i dont think that will really it will come too far yeah yeah yeah because i think that central government will try to solve that issue if the the situation come near to the worst case scenario manning thank you so much that was great stuff and speak again