Final 23 (research data)Things webinar - 18.10.2016
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Simons, Natasha
Our presenters discuss what they've learnt over the course of the 8 months and how they plan to use their new found knowledge and apply it to their fields.
 Welcome everyone and congratulations on sticking with us through the last eight months of 23 research data things, the 2016 program. So unbelievably here we are, eight months after we started at the end of the program. I can't believe how quickly the time has flown and how much interest we've had in this program over the last eight months. So congratulations to everybody who stuck with us this far and really pleased you could make it along to our final webinar today. This is our very last catch up webinar and your opportunity to share with us what you plan to do next in a post 23 things world. If you have thoughts, even really early thoughts on your next steps, whether it's for your own personal professional development or implementing something new in your organisation, please tweet them to our 23 things Twitter stream or put a note in the question pod if you've got something there that you'd like to share and we may have time later to come back and chat to a few people about their plans for the future. So we're really keen to know what people are thinking about doing next and we have some great speakers today lined up that hopefully we will just give you some ideas about what your plans might be after the 23 things program. But before we sort of look forward, let's take a few moments just to look back at our final few things that we've done since we met back in September. So since that time we've progressed through things 21, 22 and 23. Thing 21 proved to be something of a hit really because I think we've all hit snags with dirty data and Thing 21 showed us why dirty data is such a problem in the research community and also gave us a chance to use some of the practical tools available for data cleansing and those that tackled the challenge me stream loved the open refine tool and I expect we've probably inspired a few people to think about expanding their knowledge of open refine and other tools through one of the library or data carpentry courses that we also heard about earlier in the program. Thing 22 was our attempt to help you wade through the acronym soup of key players in the research data management space in Australia and those of you who attended some of our sprint to the finish workshops might recall playing the snakes and ladders game which was another way of learning about who's who in the research data management zoo and Thing 22 also gave us the opportunity to glimpse into the amazing world of big data with insights into the Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder and the data queue which are two fascinating research initiatives here in Australia that are dealing with seriously big data. And finally Thing 23 brought us lots of options for continuing our research data management journey courses, newsletters, workshops, webinars, something for everyone who wants to keep learning and exploring the world of research data. That's a really nice segue I guess to introduce the first of our guest speakers today who is Dr Mary Ann Kenham. Mary Ann is a senior lecturer in the School of Information Studies at Charles Sturt Uney where she is high degree by research coordinator and research data manager is one of her areas of teaching and Mary Ann is here today to give us a brief overview of the new Graduate Certificate in Data Management course that's going to be offered at Charles Sturt Uney next year. So for anybody who is thinking about a formal qualification in this space this is a great opportunity to hear about one of the options that has been included in Thing 23 but here's an opportunity to hear a bit more about it from the convener. Hello everyone and thanks to Jerry and the other people from ANS for inviting me along here. I just was going to talk a little bit about our new Graduate Certificate which we're offering next year. So last year I went and interviewed quite a few people who were actually working or employing people in data management types of roles and they talked about the importance of having a qualification available to people and they were talking about the kinds of roles that you can see in the slides on the screen. So it takes a bit of time to get a course up through a university so the first we were able to do is at a Graduate Certificate level and so we are offering the subjects that you can now see on the screen. These were also in the 22 things. I can't have a few questions about them if people have any but so the first subject is an introduction. It will cover some of what you've covered in the 22 things but hopefully at a slightly deeper level and then we're going to talk about we've got another subject on data curation and both of those subjects will be offered in first semester and then we have an introduction to tools and analytics and a couple of electives at the moment which are offered in second semester. You can either do two of the subjects each semester or one each semester depending on your other commitments. We chose these subjects because these were the areas that the people that I interviewed last year talked about as being the critical ones for people to know about. In the data curation subject there will be a couple of units on metadata as well as the traditional curation subjects. Some people have asked about admissions requirements. For the Graduate Certificate you just really need a degree in information or any related discipline and at CSU if you're working in an area where you have a requirement to work with data that will consider an entry requirement. We're also adding the four subjects that you saw before to our Master of Information Studies as one of the electives specialisation. You can do a Master of Information Studies and you do the core part of the course and get your certification with Aaliyah if you're a librarian and RIMPA for records and information management. Then if you wish to do a specialisation data management and what you saw before is there as an option for the final four subjects. That's it for the slides but you can see the links there which will take you to the courses and there's a button in there if people are interested in finding more information or enrolling. In ANS, also I did do a survey last year of the data types of subjects that are offered at other universities. Most of them are around the analytics and data science IT area and so ours is offering a bit of an alternative to that but if those are your interests then I suggest you click on that link with the caveat that I collected that information last year that those were the things that were offered. That's probably enough from me. I should have put my contact details up there. If you just Google Charles State University's Information Studies and Kenan I'll come up and I'd be happy to email or telephone or whatever communication style suits you with anyone who's got any questions, comments. Thanks and there is just one question already from one of our colleagues over in New Zealand wondering whether that course would be appropriate for somebody that's not based in Australia. That's a really good question and we have tried to, well because some of the work is around governance and rules and regulations and so on it is at the moment a bit focused on Australia but we have tried to make it international and we're getting a couple of people who are internationally based to take a look at it as we develop the subject. So hopefully, yes certainly the data curation it doesn't matter where you are and the visualisation I mean the tools and techniques similarly so but the first one we need we're working on getting some international stuff in the sort of governance and so on areas as well. And somebody has asked Julie Gardner has asked if you already have a graduate diploma can you still do this graduate certificate? If you have a graduate diploma, sorry you broke up a bit, well if your graduate diploma is in information studies or related discipline you could do the data management as a specialisation and convert that graduate diploma to a masters or you could do the graduate certificate. Yes there's no limit on the number of graduate certificates that you have and we give pretty good credit for people who have already got graduate diplomas to segue into the masters. So it sounds like there's a fair bit of flexibility there for people who are interested in pursuing this option and for people who are keen for a career in this space it's certainly worth considering. So thank you Mary Ann that's all the questions we seem to have for now so we'll move on but if we've got time we can come back to more questions later as I mentioned before I know Mary Ann is very happy to take questions offline as well. So thank you Mary Ann. Thanks Jerry. So next up today we have Aubrey Kirkpatrick. Now Aubrey is a subject librarian at Victoria University of Wellington over in New Zealand where we've had a really strong group participating in 23 things generally from New Zealand but in particular from Victoria University and they've already been thinking about some of their plans for what they're going to do in their workplace post 23 things and Aubrey kindly has agreed to share that with us. So Aubrey would you like to tell us what your plans are? Yeah thank you for that nice introduction. Unfortunately Katie Wilson who's been the head of the Victoria University of Wellington 23 things group is away she's actually in Australia this most of this week so I'm filling in for her but I'm kind of the second hand with this because one of the hats I wear outside of subject librarian is research support as well. So Katie and I have been really heavily involved in running it here. We were really lucky we had a strong core group of library staff from all the different areas in the library that came to the regular meetings and followed along at their own time and our last group meeting was just a few weeks ago and we had our big celebration actually some pictures of a beautiful cake we got made for us as well as wearing our stickers very proudly but a big topic for the final meeting was what are we going to do in the future and we were very lucky to have the university librarian come for the last session and she kind of threw a challenge at us as well. We are just transitioning to a new institutional repository and so she was very keen for us to work together as a group and discover different ways of publicizing some library of data from that repository and look at kind of interesting ways and tools that we could maybe incorporate into that. So she's kind of thrown her support behind an ongoing group that would look at using the knowledge that we've learned from 23 things and putting it into action here. On top of that we also have the library strategic plan is just starting to be shaped for the next few years and research support is one of the main pillars. So there was a really strong call for us to look at online tools and more support towards the postgraduate students. We had a research bazaar for the first time last year and we had a great support of the postgraduates who are really interested in all of the different research data tools. They are very interested to try their hand in lots of different areas and so it's just an untapped resource. Sometimes academics are kind of setting their ways of the processes that they do things but we find the post grads and the PhDs are really open and are great at sharing it with their own peers as well so it gets out there. So we'll be focusing on that group as well to maybe kind of reach out to them in a more specific way especially from the subject librarian point of view. We're definitely keen to get more New Zealand examples in the 23 research data things so I know Katie as well as most of the team really wanted to get more New Zealand examples in there and so we were thinking maybe to reach out to a lot of the other different New Zealand research institutions and universities and maybe kind of break it up into little chunks so it's not just one group having to translate the whole 23 research data things for New Zealand context. Yeah and finally we just agreed that we're going to keep meeting. It was one of the best things in terms of getting to know what's going on from all different areas in the library. We were able to talk more with the IT team about things that they would have thought we weren't really interested in so we've been able to have some really interesting discussions and I think moving forward a lot of our committees and groups for the planning are going to be a little more robust because more people are going to be throwing their hands up. Not going to be too afraid of the research side of things or the data curation so yeah we're really keen on that. That sounds fantastic Aubrey and I mean I know 23 things can't take all the credit for what is looking like to be a really positive move forward in this space but I hope we've helped you along your way and help frame some of your thinking and it's part of the joy of this program is that sort of community participation where you can pick up ideas from other places and as you're suggesting which I think is a really great idea is to perhaps if you're looking to contextualise 23 things in your case for a New Zealand audience or even for a domain specific audience as in health and medical things the idea of actually breaking that work up and doing that collaboratively is really smart. It just saves effort and you then get this pooling of ideas and resources and backgrounds and something that I guess Anne is very happy to do is be a forum through which people can share any materials that they create. So even with the New Zealand program if you do create a 23 things version for New Zealand we'd be happy to put that up on our website and make it available to others in case it's useful and again other people can adapt what's already been done. So that's a great outcome to have is that sort of collaboration going forward and even within your own organisation identifying more people that you can bring into the conversations and fantastic that your university library is behind it. So thank you so much Laubrie. I really appreciate you letting us, you know, sharing your plans because we know there are quite a few people who have got plans going forward but we don't always know what they are so thank you. And now a good friend Julie Tuwe from Griffith University has indicated that she's got something that she'd be happy to share about what she's planning to do next. Julie are you available to share with us now your plans post 23 things? So from my perspective I've been involved with two community groups. One is with Griffith University and I co-facilitate with my great colleague, Colleen Poulton and the other community group I've been involved with is with the lovely Kate LeMay from AANS and we have co-facilitated the Health and Medical Data community group. So I guess my response today is more around the context of the later one that I'm doing with Kate. So in terms of how it is that I'm going to be moving forward, I've already mentioned before previously the fact that I'm involved with the data mapping exercise which is really going to be useful not just for the library and research to find out what it is that our academic community are doing with their research data but also to, it's going to benefit the research group because they will be able to see how it is that their researchers are collecting their data, how they're storing it, are they making it usable, what sort of constraints and issues they've had around it because as you know health data, it comes along with other issues or constraints around privacy and consent. So the data mapping exercise is we've eventually, we initially did a pilot of five people and we've had some findings from that pilot and so now we're going to, it's been endorsed by the executive group so they're going to look at rolling it out to the wider group and that's the health group. So then they will have more information about how it is that their research is behaving and the library services will find out too where it is that we can possibly offer maybe newer services or in terms of library and also to e-research because we coincide within the same division which is information services. So from the health group perspective they would be able to see exactly where it is they need to help their researchers moving forward in this whole conversation through research data management. I mean the other thing too which lends itself nicely to the first project I'm involved in is the second one. So recently I've commenced a 50% project and how did that happen? That happened basically because I was so involved with the Health 22 Things program. I didn't know everything I needed to know from the beginning and still at the end of it I don't know everything as well but I've learned to learn along the way and so what I wanted to do was find out how possible I could look at in my organisation learn more or contribute more to the conversation. So with my permission from my manager and director I approached the e-research director. It's all about your networks that you currently have within your organisation and you have a project he was involved with and indicated that I would be of interest if possible could I offer some sort of support and so luckily for me they said yes and so now I'm working 50% on the project. This project is quite huge and very relevant to health data so in a very brief snapshot they're looking at trying to make clinical data at Griffith along with some external data from other facilities available to researchers. They want the datasets to be discoverable and if possible shareable whether that's identified or not. There are all these sorts of questions that are yet to be resolved. This is a project that's actually a three year program of work so it's going to take a lot of time and again of course it is health data so there's going to be a consent and privacy issues and there's going to be heavily governed governance and structures and put in place. It is a slow moving beast but I'm very happy to be involved. Do I have all the answers on what this is that I need to do or do I have all the skills that I've required right from the beginning? Well no I don't but like most librarians I'm very good at asking questions and I've developed some great networks too across the 23 things program so that's going to enable me to have more confidence in picking up the phone and talking to people on Saber Blokkein I need to do this so to give you an idea I'm going to be looking at identifying some of the medical schemas that we might be able to use and also to looking around the data assurance and data management side of the project as well. So again naming conventions and security classification so a whole heap of stuff that I still don't know about yet but that is my next step forward and I wouldn't have done that. I wouldn't have been involved with either of those projects had not been for ANS so thank you ANS and thank you Jerry and thank you Kate you've been a fantastic solicitor and I've learnt a lot. Thanks Julia that's a really nice story thank you for it for being willing to share it because I suspect your experiences like many of us is that you perhaps feel like you would like to take a future step or another step forward in this space but no well I don't know everything but the reality is we're all learning as we go even those of us that have been working in this space for a long time we're still learning as we go because this is a really rapidly evolving to work in which what is what makes it so exciting but it also means that learning on the job as well as doing perhaps some formal training as well are really valid ways to start moving into this space and perhaps actually getting your hands dirty so to speak and what a great opportunity you've been offered Julie to work 50% on that program and congratulations on putting your hand up and just saying well I'll give it a go you know that's a great way forward. So another nice story I guess you know what we've heard today is a mixture of stories about what institutions are doing what individuals are doing and also what some of the opportunities are for you know professional development perhaps both looking around in your own organisation as Julie has or looking at some of the courses whether they're online courses or face to face courses workshops webinars other ways of continuing your data journey. So thank you Julie for sharing that. And I guess that's a nice segue to into what's Anne's going to do next because we have had quite a few people ask us what our plans are for the future and we have been thinking a bit about what we do next but we don't have I guess a firm program of activities yet for next year but what I can tell you is that all the materials from 23 Things will stay up on our website. The newsletter that we've been sending out fortnightly has come to an end but you can subscribe to Anne's newsletter to keep up to date with what's happening in this space. We do plan to run some 23 Things type activities next year but not in the same format as this year so perhaps some short workshops a bit like perhaps the sprint to the finish and crash courses but perhaps tackling things in a slightly different way. We also want to look at different ways of bringing IT and library folks a bit closer together. You know we've had both Julie and Aubrey mentioned today that they've been collaborating more closely with their IT departments and we want to sort of reflect that a little bit more in our programs going forward. And as I mentioned before we're keen to facilitate the sharing of any repurposing of the 23 Things materials so please do let us know if you do repackage any of the materials and we would happily share them with others. So I guess in terms of what Anne is doing next we do have some plans to follow up on 23 Things type activities but we'll be expanding on that a little bit as well to offer some different sorts of training and development opportunities in similar spaces and to perhaps as I said look at how we can bring library and IT communities a little closer together. And this is probably also a nice time just to plug our feedback survey which you can find here on our 23 Things homepage because we're really finding the feedback we're getting through that very valuable in trying to sort of frame up what we're going to do next year. So I urge you to complete that if you haven't yet. So now it's time to celebrate. For those of us who stuck with the program through the whole eight months it is really cause for celebration. It's been quite a journey and there's been a lot of people come along on this journey with us. If you've had a look at our new celebration page you will have seen some of these pictures before but I thought they were well worth sharing because we've had a lot of people engaged with the program in different ways. So we know that we've got nearly 1500 people that have subscribed to our newsletters. We know that we've had more than three and a half thousand of our credley badges claimed. You also know that we've had over 600 people join up on Meetup and lots of people have been using Meetup as a mechanism to hear what or see what others are saying. We've had 49 community groups and we've heard from a few of those over the course of our webinar series and in particular the health and medical community group that Julie mentioned has been quite a vibrant community working in a specific domain space. We've also had amazing interest in the program from around the world and Akash is going to talk to us in a moment about a bit more about that. But we've had people from 28 countries actually can participate in the program and from some quite unexpected locations such as Ethiopia and Lithuania, really strong groups in New Zealand of course but also groups in Canada and the US, the UK. We've really had an amazing response to 23 things and we're really delighted that we've had people particularly through Meetup being able to contribute perspectives from all over the world. As I mentioned earlier, Natasha is going to speak to us a little bit now about her recent trip to International Data Week in Denver. International Data Week was held in September and Natasha had the opportunity to present there about the 23 Things program and I guess was perhaps a little surprised at the buzz that that caused around what was a huge conference. Natasha, would you like to share a bit of the excitement of around 23 Things over in Denver? Okay, so international, I'll put my webcam on too, I suppose I should. Like Jerry said, I went to International Data Week in Colorado and most of that was held in Denver but some of it was in Boulder because it just became a really huge week of activities covering PSI data con, an international data forum and the Research Data Alliance plenary. Yes, so 838 people from 41 countries attended the whole of International Data Week and Michael Witt from Purdue University and I presented three times a double act where he talked about the 23 Things Libraries for Research Data which the Research Data Alliance has put out and I talked about the 23 Research Data Things program that Ann's has been running in Australia and if you don't know, there is a Libraries for Research Data Interest group that is part of the Research Data Alliance and the Research Data Alliance or RDA is essentially a forum for bringing people around the world together to discuss some of the challenges and issues to do with managing data and come together forming interest groups and working groups that help to address those challenges and one of those is of course Libraries for Research Data because you will know having done the program that managing research data is a perfect fit for librarians because we are very good at managing information, we're good at working with researchers and so forth but it can be a real challenge to know how to support them in this and to get enough information about it to feel confident to support research data management at your institution. So the Research Data Alliance Interest Group for Libraries put out this 23 Things Libraries for Research Data and it's basically a one page program, they really literally have 23 things so it's very similar to our program because actually our program was sort of built with that idea in mind in the first place so that program that they put out, that one page of tools and tricks and different sort of interest areas to look at has now been translated into 11 languages and when somebody translates that they translate it say if you're translating it into Spanish you say oh I'm in Spain I don't want a UK example I want a Spanish example so they change it just in the way that we just heard from Aubrey maybe that our ANSTATA 23 Things might be adapted for the New Zealand context as well. So after Michael I talked about what was happening with the ANSTATA 23 Things and he described it that ANSTATA took the Research Data Alliance 23 Things and strapped it to the back of a rocket and basically everyone was really impressed at the way that our community has come behind the 23 Things in putting those things together and just in the number of people who have participated and been excited by this and the sort of statistics that we've seen are quite sort of mind blowing around the number of community groups and just the number of cakes that you people have baked and the number of tweets and everything like that and really inspiring for other people around the world to say well this thing has really got legs and we could actually use that in our country as, so this is a little shot of the Research Data Libraries for Interest Group at Research Data Alliance Plenary and yeah a lot of people came up afterwards to talk to me about how it worked in Australia and how they might take that material and adapt it. So very exciting for Australia to actually be at the forefront of some of these discussions. So that's it from me Jerry. Okay thanks Natasha that was short, sharp and shiny but I guess what we often don't recognise in Australia is that we're quite advanced in this space compared to many other countries and I think when people, Natasha just recently had that opportunity to go overseas and I guess be aware of how much people are actually watching what we do here in Australia and are interested in what we're doing here and so we anticipate that perhaps we'll see a 23 things style program pop up elsewhere overseas and we'd be delighted to think that that may that may eventuate. So thank you Natasha for that and we just thought it would be interesting and nice kind of way to wrap up the sort of celebration aspect by looking at what's happening in the international community. And actually before you disappear too far Natasha this is probably a great opportunity to just have a look to see what's happening on our Twitter stream whether we've got anybody that's talking there about what their plans are for the future or most likely pictures of cake I wouldn't be surprised what's happening. Actually there's not a lot happening today there was cake was mentioned as a critical clearly cake is clearly a critical aspect of 23 research data things that was from Stephanie Morton and I have to agree with that I'm judging from the number of cake photos on Twitter other than that yeah there's just a couple of people are following along but there's really nothing is just getting to the celebration stage now I think people are happy to be at the end. Yes well I have to agree it is great to be at the end. Feeling a sense of achievement. Yeah absolutely and people should feel a great sense of achievement because it is a lot you know it's a big commitment 23 things is a lot of things and what we've learned to some people were doing all streams of each thing so they actually did like 69 things so you know well done to anybody that stayed with the program and completed not just all things but even just some things because it is a commitment for sure. As I asked the question about our discussion board we will keep the discussion boards up for a little bit longer but we won't necessarily keep them up forever because they do kind of reflect I guess the current 2016 program but we will archive that content and make sure that we pull out any of the resources that have been referred to because some people did share some really valuable resources so we will make sure that we I guess exploit that content if you like but we will be looking at pulling that down probably early in the new year. If you have any particular thoughts on that let us know but we did sort of figure that once we stop running the program it would probably slowly get a little bit quieter and that people do have the opportunity through the ANDs data Twitter handle to keep talking and sharing what they are doing. We also have data librarians Google group which is another way of sharing resources and ideas and putting questions out to the community as well and I will put details of those things in the final email that I will send out once the recording of this webinar is available. I will just sort of send out a summary with some of the resources that might be of interest to people going forward. So as we do come to the end of the program just a reminder too that you should think about claiming the last of your credly badges if you have been claiming the badges and also your ALEA PD points because the 23 things program has qualified for ALEA PD points. To also think about whether you should be including what you have achieved through 23 things in any of your professional development records and one I guess option that we have suggested to people is to use the opportunity of reflecting on the 23 things program through a short survey to actually I guess reuse those same reflections for any professional development assessments that you may have where you want to actually include the 23 things program as part of that assessment. So please think about how you can I guess build on what you have done through the program and I guess maximise the value in the program for yourself. So the other thing I just wanted to flag was this celebration page that we have just recently put up on the 23 things website. It really just has a few nice pictures that have come through particularly on our Twitter handle. Just some of the snippets about what people have been saying on Twitter, on Meetup, on blog posts, we have a fantastic short video that Kathia Henry from State Library of Queensland put together where some of the participants up there have reflected on their journey through the 23 things program. And we've also dropped into this page the thing 23 activities because I guess that's where we are hoping you'll go to from here is thinking about what you're going to do next. So we've included that here and we've also got a space there where any presentations or papers that people are giving or writing about the program we can share them here as well and we've got a few up there for starters to get that seated. So if you are talking, writing, presenting on 23 things we'd love to share those things with other people here too. So as we come to the end of the program, fitting that we thank I guess quite a few people and they are all named here on our celebration page but a lot of people have actually made sure that this program has got up and running and continued and been well supported. We started off November, December last year with a call out to the community for suggestions for what we should include in the things and all of these people in this list came back to us and suggested more than 70 things that we could include which we then massaged down into the 23 things. So big thank you to all the people who actually got us started and helped us identify what it is that the community wants and needs to learn about research data management. We also had people that were standing by ready to take the hard questions as we went through things because here at ANS and certainly the organizing group for 23 things we are not experts on everything to do with research data so we were definitely relying on having some expert advisors on hand to help with some of the trickier things. People like Babe Napoliard from Osgoal who was on hand and some of you will have seen contributed back to questions on data licensing for instance. So a number of people there that made themselves available to be our expert advisors. We also of course had lots of people speak at our webinars and we really appreciate people taking the time to share their stories and to I guess share with the community what they are doing and what they have learned. So thank you to all our webinar speakers and of course our community group leaders. We had nearly 50 community groups. Some of them were sort of co-run by a couple of people and they were such an important part of the program in providing us with feedback on how the program was going as we went through but also for really making that community building aspect of the program work. So a big thanks to them as well. Also need to thank Kall and Alia who have supported the program along the way and I guess made it clear that this area is an area that they see as one that is very valuable and viable for the library profession going forward. And most importantly of course we need to thank you. All of the folks that have come along on the journey with us and stayed with us and contributed to the discussions and things like our sprints to the finish and crash courses. It's all been good fun but it's also been a great way to learn as part of a group and to virtually I guess be able to support each other through the program. So thank you very much for that as well. I think there's a lot of thank yous happening on Twitter at the moment and a lot of congratulations. A lot of thanks to Ann's and congratulations. Yeah. Okay. Well that's lovely. Well thank you all and as I said thank you all for being part of the program. It's been quite a ride but it's been great fun and we've learned a lot doing it with you. And we look forward to having you be part of what next year brings with Ann's. Please keep an eye on Ann's news to see what's coming up next and stay in touch with how things are going in your post-23 Things World.
 Welcome everyone and congratulations on sticking with us through the last eight months of 23  research data things, the 2016 program. So unbelievably here we are, eight months after  we started at the end of the program. I can't believe how quickly the time has flown and  how much interest we've had in this program over the last eight months. So congratulations  to everybody who stuck with us this far and really pleased you could make it along to  our final webinar today. This is our very last catch up webinar and your opportunity to  share with us what you plan to do next in a post 23 things world. If you have thoughts,  even really early thoughts on your next steps, whether it's for your own personal professional  development or implementing something new in your organisation, please tweet them to  our 23 things Twitter stream or put a note in the question pod if you've got something  there that you'd like to share and we may have time later to come back and chat to a  few people about their plans for the future. So we're really keen to know what people are  thinking about doing next and we have some great speakers today lined up that hopefully  we will just give you some ideas about what your plans might be after the 23 things program.  But before we sort of look forward, let's take a few moments just to look back at our  final few things that we've done since we met back in September. So since that time  we've progressed through things 21, 22 and 23. Thing 21 proved to be something of a  hit really because I think we've all hit snags with dirty data and Thing 21 showed us why  dirty data is such a problem in the research community and also gave us a chance to use  some of the practical tools available for data cleansing and those that tackled the  challenge me stream loved the open refine tool and I expect we've probably inspired  a few people to think about expanding their knowledge of open refine and other tools through  one of the library or data carpentry courses that we also heard about earlier in the program.  Thing 22 was our attempt to help you wade through the acronym soup of key players in  the research data management space in Australia and those of you who attended some of our  sprint to the finish workshops might recall playing the snakes and ladders game which  was another way of learning about who's who in the research data management zoo and Thing  22 also gave us the opportunity to glimpse into the amazing world of big data with insights  into the Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder and the data queue which are two  fascinating research initiatives here in Australia that are dealing with seriously big data.  And finally Thing 23 brought us lots of options for continuing our research data management  journey courses, newsletters, workshops, webinars, something for everyone who wants to keep learning  and exploring the world of research data.  That's a really nice segue I guess to introduce the first of our guest speakers today who  is Dr Mary Ann Kenham.  Mary Ann is a senior lecturer in the School of Information Studies at Charles Sturt Uney  where she is high degree by research coordinator and research data manager is one of her areas  of teaching and Mary Ann is here today to give us a brief overview of the new Graduate  Certificate in Data Management course that's going to be offered at Charles Sturt Uney  next year.  So for anybody who is thinking about a formal qualification in this space this is a great  opportunity to hear about one of the options that has been included in Thing 23 but here's  an opportunity to hear a bit more about it from the convener.  Hello everyone and thanks to Jerry and the other people from ANS for inviting me along  here.  I just was going to talk a little bit about our new Graduate Certificate which we're offering  next year.  So last year I went and interviewed quite a few people who were actually working or  employing people in data management types of roles and they talked about the importance  of having a qualification available to people and they were talking about the kinds of roles  that you can see in the slides on the screen.  So it takes a bit of time to get a course up through a university so the first we were  able to do is at a Graduate Certificate level and so we are offering the subjects that you  can now see on the screen.  These were also in the 22 things.  I can't have a few questions about them if people have any but so the first subject is  an introduction.  It will cover some of what you've covered in the 22 things but hopefully at a slightly  deeper level and then we're going to talk about we've got another subject on data curation  and both of those subjects will be offered in first semester and then we have an introduction  to tools and analytics and a couple of electives at the moment which are offered in second  semester.  You can either do two of the subjects each semester or one each semester depending on  your other commitments.  We chose these subjects because these were the areas that the people that I interviewed  last year talked about as being the critical ones for people to know about.  In the data curation subject there will be a couple of units on metadata as well as the  traditional curation subjects.  Some people have asked about admissions requirements.  For the Graduate Certificate you just really need a degree in information or any related  discipline and at CSU if you're working in an area where you have a requirement to work  with data that will consider an entry requirement.  We're also adding the four subjects that you saw before to our Master of Information  Studies as one of the electives specialisation.  You can do a Master of Information Studies and you do the core part of the course and  get your certification with Aaliyah if you're a librarian and RIMPA for records and information  management.  Then if you wish to do a specialisation data management and what you saw before is there  as an option for the final four subjects.  That's it for the slides but you can see the links there which will take you to the courses  and there's a button in there if people are interested in finding more information or  enrolling.  In ANS, also I did do a survey last year of the data types of subjects that are offered  at other universities.  Most of them are around the analytics and data science IT area and so ours is offering  a bit of an alternative to that but if those are your interests then I suggest you click  on that link with the caveat that I collected that information last year that those were  the things that were offered.  That's probably enough from me.  I should have put my contact details up there.  If you just Google Charles State University's Information Studies and Kenan I'll come up  and I'd be happy to email or telephone or whatever communication style suits you with  anyone who's got any questions, comments.  Thanks and there is just one question already from one of our colleagues over in New Zealand  wondering whether that course would be appropriate for somebody that's not based in Australia.  That's a really good question and we have tried to, well because some of the work is  around governance and rules and regulations and so on it is at the moment a bit focused  on Australia but we have tried to make it international and we're getting a couple of  people who are internationally based to take a look at it as we develop the subject.  So hopefully, yes certainly the data curation it doesn't matter where you are and the visualisation  I mean the tools and techniques similarly so but the first one we need we're working  on getting some international stuff in the sort of governance and so on areas as well.  And somebody has asked Julie Gardner has asked if you already have a graduate diploma can  you still do this graduate certificate?  If you have a graduate diploma, sorry you broke up a bit, well if your graduate diploma  is in information studies or related discipline you could do the data management as a specialisation  and convert that graduate diploma to a masters or you could do the graduate certificate.  Yes there's no limit on the number of graduate certificates that you have and we give pretty  good credit for people who have already got graduate diplomas to segue into the masters.  So it sounds like there's a fair bit of flexibility there for people who are interested in pursuing  this option and for people who are keen for a career in this space it's certainly worth  considering.  So thank you Mary Ann that's all the questions we seem to have for now so we'll move on  but if we've got time we can come back to more questions later as I mentioned before  I know Mary Ann is very happy to take questions offline as well.  So thank you Mary Ann.  Thanks Jerry.  So next up today we have Aubrey Kirkpatrick.  Now Aubrey is a subject librarian at Victoria University of Wellington over in New Zealand  where we've had a really strong group participating in 23 things generally from New Zealand but  in particular from Victoria University and they've already been thinking about some of  their plans for what they're going to do in their workplace post 23 things and Aubrey  kindly has agreed to share that with us.  So Aubrey would you like to tell us what your plans are?  Yeah thank you for that nice introduction.  Unfortunately Katie Wilson who's been the head of the Victoria University of Wellington  23 things group is away she's actually in Australia this most of this week so I'm filling  in for her but I'm kind of the second hand with this because one of the hats I wear outside  of subject librarian is research support as well.  So Katie and I have been really heavily involved in running it here.  We were really lucky we had a strong core group of library staff from all the different  areas in the library that came to the regular meetings and followed along at their own time  and our last group meeting was just a few weeks ago and we had our big celebration actually  some pictures of a beautiful cake we got made for us as well as wearing our stickers very  proudly but a big topic for the final meeting was what are we going to do in the future  and we were very lucky to have the university librarian come for the last session and she  kind of threw a challenge at us as well.  We are just transitioning to a new institutional repository and so she was very keen for us  to work together as a group and discover different ways of publicizing some library  of data from that repository and look at kind of interesting ways and tools that we could  maybe incorporate into that.  So she's kind of thrown her support behind an ongoing group that would look at using  the knowledge that we've learned from 23 things and putting it into action here.  On top of that we also have the library strategic plan is just starting to be shaped for the  next few years and research support is one of the main pillars.  So there was a really strong call for us to look at online tools and more support towards  the postgraduate students.  We had a research bazaar for the first time last year and we had a great support of the  postgraduates who are really interested in all of the different research data tools.  They are very interested to try their hand in lots of different areas and so it's just  an untapped resource.  Sometimes academics are kind of setting their ways of the processes that they do things  but we find the post grads and the PhDs are really open and are great at sharing it with  their own peers as well so it gets out there.  So we'll be focusing on that group as well to maybe kind of reach out to them in a more  specific way especially from the subject librarian point of view.  We're definitely keen to get more New Zealand examples in the 23 research data things so  I know Katie as well as most of the team really wanted to get more New Zealand examples in  there and so we were thinking maybe to reach out to a lot of the other different New Zealand  research institutions and universities and maybe kind of break it up into little chunks  so it's not just one group having to translate the whole 23 research data things for New  Zealand context.  Yeah and finally we just agreed that we're going to keep meeting.  It was one of the best things in terms of getting to know what's going on from all different  areas in the library.  We were able to talk more with the IT team about things that they would have thought  we weren't really interested in so we've been able to have some really interesting discussions  and I think moving forward a lot of our committees and groups for the planning are going to be  a little more robust because more people are going to be throwing their hands up.  Not going to be too afraid of the research side of things or the data curation so yeah  we're really keen on that.  That sounds fantastic Aubrey and I mean I know 23 things can't take all the credit  for what is looking like to be a really positive move forward in this space but I hope we've  helped you along your way and help frame some of your thinking and it's part of the joy  of this program is that sort of community participation where you can pick up ideas  from other places and as you're suggesting which I think is a really great idea is to  perhaps if you're looking to contextualise 23 things in your case for a New Zealand audience  or even for a domain specific audience as in health and medical things the idea of actually  breaking that work up and doing that collaboratively is really smart.  It just saves effort and you then get this pooling of ideas and resources and backgrounds  and something that I guess Anne is very happy to do is be a forum through which people can  share any materials that they create.  So even with the New Zealand program if you do create a 23 things version for New Zealand  we'd be happy to put that up on our website and make it available to others in case it's  useful and again other people can adapt what's already been done.  So that's a great outcome to have is that sort of collaboration going forward and even  within your own organisation identifying more people that you can bring into the conversations  and fantastic that your university library is behind it.  So thank you so much Laubrie.  I really appreciate you letting us, you know, sharing your plans because we know there are  quite a few people who have got plans going forward but we don't always know what they  are so thank you.  And now a good friend Julie Tuwe from Griffith University has indicated that she's got something  that she'd be happy to share about what she's planning to do next.  Julie are you available to share with us now your plans post 23 things?  So from my perspective I've been involved with two community groups.  One is with Griffith University and I co-facilitate with my great colleague, Colleen Poulton and  the other community group I've been involved with is with the lovely Kate LeMay from AANS  and we have co-facilitated the Health and Medical Data community group.  So I guess my response today is more around the context of the later one that I'm doing  with Kate.  So in terms of how it is that I'm going to be moving forward, I've already mentioned  before previously the fact that I'm involved with the data mapping exercise which is really  going to be useful not just for the library and research to find out what it is that our  academic community are doing with their research data but also to, it's going to benefit the  research group because they will be able to see how it is that their researchers are  collecting their data, how they're storing it, are they making it usable, what sort of  constraints and issues they've had around it because as you know health data, it comes  along with other issues or constraints around privacy and consent.  So the data mapping exercise is we've eventually, we initially did a pilot of five people and  we've had some findings from that pilot and so now we're going to, it's been endorsed  by the executive group so they're going to look at rolling it out to the wider group  and that's the health group.  So then they will have more information about how it is that their research is behaving  and the library services will find out too where it is that we can possibly offer maybe  newer services or in terms of library and also to e-research because we coincide within  the same division which is information services.  So from the health group perspective they would be able to see exactly where it is they  need to help their researchers moving forward in this whole conversation through research  data management.  I mean the other thing too which lends itself nicely to the first project I'm involved  in is the second one.  So recently I've commenced a 50% project and how did that happen?  That happened basically because I was so involved with the Health 22 Things program.  I didn't know everything I needed to know from the beginning and still at the end of  it I don't know everything as well but I've learned to learn along the way and so what  I wanted to do was find out how possible I could look at in my organisation learn more  or contribute more to the conversation.  So with my permission from my manager and director I approached the e-research director.  It's all about your networks that you currently have within your organisation and you have  a project he was involved with and indicated that I would be of interest if possible could  I offer some sort of support and so luckily for me they said yes and so now I'm working  50% on the project.  This project is quite huge and very relevant to health data so in a very brief snapshot  they're looking at trying to make clinical data at Griffith along with some external  data from other facilities available to researchers.  They want the datasets to be discoverable and if possible shareable whether that's  identified or not.  There are all these sorts of questions that are yet to be resolved.  This is a project that's actually a three year program of work so it's going to take  a lot of time and again of course it is health data so there's going to be a consent and  privacy issues and there's going to be heavily governed governance and structures and put  in place.  It is a slow moving beast but I'm very happy to be involved.  Do I have all the answers on what this is that I need to do or do I have all the skills  that I've required right from the beginning?  Well no I don't but like most librarians I'm very good at asking questions and I've  developed some great networks too across the 23 things program so that's going to  enable me to have more confidence in picking up the phone and talking to people on Saber  Blokkein I need to do this so to give you an idea I'm going to be looking at identifying  some of the medical schemas that we might be able to use and also to looking around  the data assurance and data management side of the project as well.  So again naming conventions and security classification so a whole heap of stuff that I still don't  know about yet but that is my next step forward and I wouldn't have done that.  I wouldn't have been involved with either of those projects had not been for ANS so  thank you ANS and thank you Jerry and thank you Kate you've been a fantastic solicitor  and I've learnt a lot.  Thanks Julia that's a really nice story thank you for it for being willing to share it because  I suspect your experiences like many of us is that you perhaps feel like you would like  to take a future step or another step forward in this space but no well I don't know everything  but the reality is we're all learning as we go even those of us that have been working  in this space for a long time we're still learning as we go because this is a really  rapidly evolving to work in which what is what makes it so exciting but it also means  that learning on the job as well as doing perhaps some formal training as well are really  valid ways to start moving into this space and perhaps actually getting your hands dirty  so to speak and what a great opportunity you've been offered Julie to work 50% on that program  and congratulations on putting your hand up and just saying well I'll give it a go you  know that's a great way forward.  So another nice story I guess you know what we've heard today is a mixture of stories  about what institutions are doing what individuals are doing and also what some of the opportunities  are for you know professional development perhaps both looking around in your own organisation  as Julie has or looking at some of the courses whether they're online courses or face to  face courses workshops webinars other ways of continuing your data journey.  So thank you Julie for sharing that.  And I guess that's a nice segue to into what's Anne's going to do next because we have had  quite a few people ask us what our plans are for the future and we have been thinking a  bit about what we do next but we don't have I guess a firm program of activities yet for  next year but what I can tell you is that all the materials from 23 Things will stay  up on our website.  The newsletter that we've been sending out fortnightly has come to an end but you can  subscribe to Anne's newsletter to keep up to date with what's happening in this space.  We do plan to run some 23 Things type activities next year but not in the same format as this  year so perhaps some short workshops a bit like perhaps the sprint to the finish and  crash courses but perhaps tackling things in a slightly different way.  We also want to look at different ways of bringing IT and library folks a bit closer  together.  You know we've had both Julie and Aubrey mentioned today that they've been collaborating  more closely with their IT departments and we want to sort of reflect that a little bit  more in our programs going forward.  And as I mentioned before we're keen to facilitate the sharing of any repurposing of the 23 Things  materials so please do let us know if you do repackage any of the materials and we would  happily share them with others.  So I guess in terms of what Anne is doing next we do have some plans to follow up on  23 Things type activities but we'll be expanding on that a little bit as well to offer some  different sorts of training and development opportunities in similar spaces and to perhaps  as I said look at how we can bring library and IT communities a little closer together.  And this is probably also a nice time just to plug our feedback survey which you can  find here on our 23 Things homepage because we're really finding the feedback we're getting  through that very valuable in trying to sort of frame up what we're going to do next year.  So I urge you to complete that if you haven't yet.  So now it's time to celebrate.  For those of us who stuck with the program through the whole eight months it is really  cause for celebration.  It's been quite a journey and there's been a lot of people come along on this journey  with us.  If you've had a look at our new celebration page you will have seen some of these pictures  before but I thought they were well worth sharing because we've had a lot of people engaged  with the program in different ways.  So we know that we've got nearly 1500 people that have subscribed to our newsletters.  We know that we've had more than three and a half thousand of our credley badges claimed.  You also know that we've had over 600 people join up on Meetup and lots of people have  been using Meetup as a mechanism to hear what or see what others are saying.  We've had 49 community groups and we've heard from a few of those over the course of our  webinar series and in particular the health and medical community group that Julie mentioned  has been quite a vibrant community working in a specific domain space.  We've also had amazing interest in the program from around the world and Akash is going to  talk to us in a moment about a bit more about that.  But we've had people from 28 countries actually can participate in the program and from some  quite unexpected locations such as Ethiopia and Lithuania, really strong groups in New  Zealand of course but also groups in Canada and the US, the UK.  We've really had an amazing response to 23 things and we're really delighted that we've  had people particularly through Meetup being able to contribute perspectives from all over  the world.  As I mentioned earlier, Natasha is going to speak to us a little bit now about her recent  trip to International Data Week in Denver.  International Data Week was held in September and Natasha had the opportunity to present  there about the 23 Things program and I guess was perhaps a little surprised at the buzz  that that caused around what was a huge conference.  Natasha, would you like to share a bit of the excitement of around 23 Things over in  Denver?  Okay, so international, I'll put my webcam on too, I suppose I should.  Like Jerry said, I went to International Data Week in Colorado and most of that was held  in Denver but some of it was in Boulder because it just became a really huge week of activities  covering PSI data con, an international data forum and the Research Data Alliance plenary.  Yes, so 838 people from 41 countries attended the whole of International Data Week and Michael  Witt from Purdue University and I presented three times a double act where he talked about  the 23 Things Libraries for Research Data which the Research Data Alliance has put out  and I talked about the 23 Research Data Things program that Ann's has been running in Australia  and if you don't know, there is a Libraries for Research Data Interest group that is part  of the Research Data Alliance and the Research Data Alliance or RDA is essentially a forum  for bringing people around the world together to discuss some of the challenges and issues  to do with managing data and come together forming interest groups and working groups  that help to address those challenges and one of those is of course Libraries for Research  Data because you will know having done the program that managing research data is a perfect  fit for librarians because we are very good at managing information, we're good at working  with researchers and so forth but it can be a real challenge to know how to support them  in this and to get enough information about it to feel confident to support research data  management at your institution.  So the Research Data Alliance Interest Group for Libraries put out this 23 Things Libraries  for Research Data and it's basically a one page program, they really literally have 23  things so it's very similar to our program because actually our program was sort of built  with that idea in mind in the first place so that program that they put out, that one  page of tools and tricks and different sort of interest areas to look at has now been  translated into 11 languages and when somebody translates that they translate it say if you're  translating it into Spanish you say oh I'm in Spain I don't want a UK example I want  a Spanish example so they change it just in the way that we just heard from Aubrey maybe  that our ANSTATA 23 Things might be adapted for the New Zealand context as well.  So after Michael I talked about what was happening with the ANSTATA 23 Things and he described  it that ANSTATA took the Research Data Alliance 23 Things and strapped it to the back of a  rocket and basically everyone was really impressed at the way that our community has come behind  the 23 Things in putting those things together and just in the number of people who have  participated and been excited by this and the sort of statistics that we've seen are  quite sort of mind blowing around the number of community groups and just the number of  cakes that you people have baked and the number of tweets and everything like that and really  inspiring for other people around the world to say well this thing has really got legs  and we could actually use that in our country as, so this is a little shot of the Research  Data Libraries for Interest Group at Research Data Alliance Plenary and yeah a lot of people  came up afterwards to talk to me about how it worked in Australia and how they might  take that material and adapt it.  So very exciting for Australia to actually be at the forefront of some of these discussions.  So that's it from me Jerry.  Okay thanks Natasha that was short, sharp and shiny but I guess what we often don't  recognise in Australia is that we're quite advanced in this space compared to many other  countries and I think when people, Natasha just recently had that opportunity to go overseas  and I guess be aware of how much people are actually watching what we do here in Australia  and are interested in what we're doing here and so we anticipate that perhaps we'll see  a 23 things style program pop up elsewhere overseas and we'd be delighted to think that  that may that may eventuate.  So thank you Natasha for that and we just thought it would be interesting and nice kind  of way to wrap up the sort of celebration aspect by looking at what's happening in the  international community.  And actually before you disappear too far Natasha this is probably a great opportunity  to just have a look to see what's happening on our Twitter stream whether we've got anybody  that's talking there about what their plans are for the future or most likely pictures  of cake I wouldn't be surprised what's happening.  Actually there's not a lot happening today there was cake was mentioned as a critical  clearly cake is clearly a critical aspect of 23 research data things that was from Stephanie  Morton and I have to agree with that I'm judging from the number of cake photos on Twitter  other than that yeah there's just a couple of people are following along but there's  really nothing is just getting to the celebration stage now I think people are happy to be at  the end.  Yes well I have to agree it is great to be at the end.  Feeling a sense of achievement.  Yeah absolutely and people should feel a great sense of achievement because it is a lot you  know it's a big commitment 23 things is a lot of things and what we've learned to some  people were doing all streams of each thing so they actually did like 69 things so you  know well done to anybody that stayed with the program and completed not just all things  but even just some things because it is a commitment for sure.  As I asked the question about our discussion board we will keep the discussion boards up  for a little bit longer but we won't necessarily keep them up forever because they do kind  of reflect I guess the current 2016 program but we will archive that content and make  sure that we pull out any of the resources that have been referred to because some people  did share some really valuable resources so we will make sure that we I guess exploit  that content if you like but we will be looking at pulling that down probably early in the  new year.  If you have any particular thoughts on that let us know but we did sort of figure that  once we stop running the program it would probably slowly get a little bit quieter and  that people do have the opportunity through the ANDs data Twitter handle to keep talking  and sharing what they are doing.  We also have data librarians Google group which is another way of sharing resources  and ideas and putting questions out to the community as well and I will put details of  those things in the final email that I will send out once the recording of this webinar  is available.  I will just sort of send out a summary with some of the resources that might be of interest  to people going forward.  So as we do come to the end of the program just a reminder too that you should think  about claiming the last of your credly badges if you have been claiming the badges and also  your ALEA PD points because the 23 things program has qualified for ALEA PD points.  To also think about whether you should be including what you have achieved through 23  things in any of your professional development records and one I guess option that we have  suggested to people is to use the opportunity of reflecting on the 23 things program through  a short survey to actually I guess reuse those same reflections for any professional development  assessments that you may have where you want to actually include the 23 things program  as part of that assessment.  So please think about how you can I guess build on what you have done through the program  and I guess maximise the value in the program for yourself.  So the other thing I just wanted to flag was this celebration page that we have just recently  put up on the 23 things website.  It really just has a few nice pictures that have come through particularly on our Twitter  handle.  Just some of the snippets about what people have been saying on Twitter, on Meetup, on  blog posts, we have a fantastic short video that Kathia Henry from State Library of Queensland  put together where some of the participants up there have reflected on their journey  through the 23 things program.  And we've also dropped into this page the thing 23 activities because I guess that's  where we are hoping you'll go to from here is thinking about what you're going to do  next.  So we've included that here and we've also got a space there where any presentations  or papers that people are giving or writing about the program we can share them here as  well and we've got a few up there for starters to get that seated.  So if you are talking, writing, presenting on 23 things we'd love to share those things  with other people here too.  So as we come to the end of the program, fitting that we thank I guess quite a few people and  they are all named here on our celebration page but a lot of people have actually made  sure that this program has got up and running and continued and been well supported.  We started off November, December last year with a call out to the community for suggestions  for what we should include in the things and all of these people in this list came back  to us and suggested more than 70 things that we could include which we then massaged down  into the 23 things.  So big thank you to all the people who actually got us started and helped us identify what  it is that the community wants and needs to learn about research data management.  We also had people that were standing by ready to take the hard questions as we went through  things because here at ANS and certainly the organizing group for 23 things we are not  experts on everything to do with research data so we were definitely relying on having  some expert advisors on hand to help with some of the trickier things.  People like Babe Napoliard from Osgoal who was on hand and some of you will have seen  contributed back to questions on data licensing for instance.  So a number of people there that made themselves available to be our expert advisors.  We also of course had lots of people speak at our webinars and we really appreciate people  taking the time to share their stories and to I guess share with the community what they  are doing and what they have learned.  So thank you to all our webinar speakers and of course our community group leaders.  We had nearly 50 community groups.  Some of them were sort of co-run by a couple of people and they were such an important  part of the program in providing us with feedback on how the program was going as we went through  but also for really making that community building aspect of the program work.  So a big thanks to them as well.  Also need to thank Kall and Alia who have supported the program along the way and I  guess made it clear that this area is an area that they see as one that is very valuable  and viable for the library profession going forward.  And most importantly of course we need to thank you.  All of the folks that have come along on the journey with us and stayed with us and contributed  to the discussions and things like our sprints to the finish and crash courses.  It's all been good fun but it's also been a great way to learn as part of a group and  to virtually I guess be able to support each other through the program.  So thank you very much for that as well.  I think there's a lot of thank yous happening on Twitter at the moment and a lot of congratulations.  A lot of thanks to Ann's and congratulations.  Yeah.  Okay.  Well that's lovely.  Well thank you all and as I said thank you all for being part of the program.  It's been quite a ride but it's been great fun and we've learned a lot doing it with  you.  And we look forward to having you be part of what next year brings with Ann's.  Please keep an eye on Ann's news to see what's coming up next and stay in touch with how  things are going in your post-23 Things World.
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