Keynote - KOLAB: Shaping the future through Kolaboration
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Greve, Georg Christof Florian
Georg is the CEO of Kolab Systems AG and is one of the leading entrepreneurs in the Free Software world: Self-taught software developer, traditionally trained physicist, author, and founding president of the Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) and involved in most of the crucial battles for a society that is based on openness and freedom.
 Good afternoon, everyone. My T-shirt is lying. I'm actually straight out of Vienna right now. We got in here like half an hour ago or so because we had our collab Taster event there yesterday. So I'm still halfway on the road with the brain, but it's all good. We're going to be good. I'm going to talk to you about shaping the future through collaboration because the primary role that I feel today is as the CEO of Collab Systems, a pure free software enterprise. In fact, what we do, I hope all of you already know, is collab, which does all these wonderful things from your email, of course. I mean, email keeps on dying, yet growing from year to year. So I think it's not going to go away anytime soon. So we do the whole range of calendaring, tasks, notes, email, contact, sharing. It runs wonderfully on OpenZooza, by the way. So Hans Derrath, who was here a second ago who just helped me set things up, has been working with the OpenZooza community for years. And so if you want to install it on OpenZooza, that's really, really easy. But I'm not going to talk so much about what Collab is or what it does. In fact, I think you can all find that out for yourself. What I want to talk about more is actually the why. Why does it matter? I mean, what is driving us as a group, as a company, as a team? There's quite a few of us around here, since we're having the call-up summit again in parallel to the OpenZooza conference. We did that last year in the Hague together. We all felt it was a great success because of the way in which people could switch between conferences. And so you have quite a few of the Collabians here. And we, at some point, set together trying to find out why it is that we do what we do. Like what is it that drives us forward as a team, as a company, as a solution? What are the important things for us to get up in the morning? And so we did what everyone does. We did a little retreat in the Bernese Alps. So that's an original picture from that retreat, in fact. And we tried to put our heads together. And strangely enough, when we wrote down what mattered to us, it very much came down to the same principles, and the word freedom ended up on there multiple times. So we condensed it a bit. And for us, the reason why we do what we do is that we want to provide freedom and choice through technology. It is the culture of the company, but also the culture we want to inspire into society. And we want to deliver that freedom through collaboration, because for us, collaboration, and the ability to work together is actually what binds human society together. It is what really, really drives this. So this is basically taken straight from the heart of what free software means, of what open source is. It's what drives our community. And in fact, for us, that is exactly what we put at the heart of our business. And that's why we don't do any open core. We've never done any proprietary bullshit. We do straight free software only. Have always done that. Now the problem is that when you do this, right, when you do things that matter to you, sometimes you think people need to get that straight away. They need to understand why it is that you do what you do and why that matters and why it should also matter to them. You think that they should use it just because it's open, but just because it's free. And we have as a community had a long, long history of trying to just say, look, of course, I mean, it may be a little bit worse, but you should still use it because it's open. It gives you freedom. And that is true. It is however, if we are fully honest with ourselves, very often not enough to grab the mainstream attention, to grab a sufficiently large number of people and make them want this. I mean, we need to grab them somewhere else. And so when we started Collab, we actually thought about what do we need to do to get this into the mainstream? I mean, we want to actually make a change. We can change things in our community. And that's wonderful. But that may not really reach the six, seven billion proverbial mailboxes that Jeroen keeps talking about. We want to have something that actually drives a larger change. So how do we get there? And for me, I mean, you see that actually what we have like proper design now, you will see during the Collab Summit, we have really good ways of presenting things. Now, because we're trying to make this appealing, that comes from an underlying, deeper motive. And the place where I personally took inspiration from as well, and the team shares that feeling. I mean, I myself, I called it what I usually call the Tesla moment. The Tesla moment for me is, I mean, besides Elon Musk being a very interesting guy and so on and so forth, is defined by the fact that Tesla decided to approach the subject of electrical mobility in a completely new way. Before Tesla, virtually all electric cars were pretty obviously built by people who hate cars, for people who hate cars. They were dinky toys, puny in comparison. You can see they're still reflected in some of the electrical cars that big automobile manufacturers built, right? They look like a cheap copy of their actual car. Tesla turned that around. They said, all right, we want to actually make people drive electric cars and enjoy driving electric cars because that's when they will buy them. And that's when we can actually get people to ride electric cars and only electric. So they said, we're going to build the best car and it's also going to be fully electric. There's going to be no fuel option here, none. So you do something that is better that grabs people where they are by what drives them, what motivates them, what interests them. And then you do it in the right way. You put the right substance into it. In order to actually be able to drive a mainstream change. And I think Tesla has done that to a very large extent with the automobile industry. When you see the amount of change that Tesla has affected into the automobile industry in such a short period of time, that's quite amazing. I mean, now everyone says, of course, you're going to do electric cars. And of course, all the recent scandals also helped, but it was really Tesla that set this change in motion in the way they approached this. They built cars that people wanted, like really wanted. In fact, I know many fans in the free software community of Tesla cars because they're rather interesting. I mean, yes, they have some issues. They're not perfect. It's all good. But the way that they decided to approach it, I think we can learn from. And it's funny because, I mean, Tesla does some things rather right. I mean, when they said, oh, all our patents are belong to you. You can use all our patents to build your own electric cars. The one thing you can then no longer do is sue us for patent infringement. We get to use your patents too. We're really building a no fly zone for patents, which should sound familiar to quite a few of you, I hope, because in fact, we as a community did that first. That concept is actually the very same concept that the open invention network has taken. And now I'm absolutely certain that Elon knew that and has seen that before also because I mean, you see that his other very famous company, Space Access, also a signatory to the OIN. The point here is to create a no fly zone for patents in order to allow networks of innovation to happen, to drive innovation in a broader sense, which is exactly what we do as a community. We drive innovation by working together, sometimes even with our competitors in order to build better technology that actually helps people, that builds something that is better. And it's through that collaboration again that we actually are able to achieve so much more with a diverse community of people that isn't... We have, yes, we have a lot of people, but when you look at the actual number of developers and the amount of change that they affect, we as the free software community are so much more efficient than most proprietary companies I've seen. We generate so much more in innovation. It's quite astounding. We achieve a lot more with much fewer resources. So in fact, even though Tesla didn't exist at the time, the company, obviously a person did before, but Linux to me is actually another example of where we had something like a Tesla moment. You see, Linux has spread much to the dismay of some people, we know, on its technical merits to a very substantial part. It has also transported the principles of open innovation, of collaboration, of working together into areas that before were really, really close to them. I mean, if you ask which company is using Linux today, the answer is pretty much everyone, right? There's not a single one that doesn't have it anywhere. So this actually was, even though we may not have known it at the time, another such moment. So I believe we can learn from this in the way we approach what we want to do by seeking out these moments, by understanding that if we can combine the better with the right, that we can actually bring about much faster change than we sometimes do by only focusing on doing whatever we think is right, but neglecting to also understand that we need to build something that's also better. Because the innovation that we have had, I mean, think about the world as it would be without free software, right? I mean, most of the internet and Android handys, obviously, all of this has been brought about by this amazing big ecosystem innovation. We must be thinking about groups of innovation, ecosystems of innovation. And when we look at the hardware side, and that's a story that I personally currently find rather interesting, which is why I thought I'd shared with you, we see that there we've had really dramatic absence of that. I mean, we have ARM still, yes, but most of the world right now, most of the servers in the data centers in particular run on Intel, the vast majority. So Intel is controlling this, and Intel is a very proprietary company, as most of you know. So Intel is controlling that space to a very, very large extent. And whenever something is proprietary, and I'm not telling you anything new here, the question for us is, can we actually know what is going on in there? I mean, anyone who's been in our community for more than a short while will have seen several of the conversations about what is going on with the hardware platform on which we stand. In fact, even though we knew it a while ago, recently we finally got mainstream attention on that in the sense that Intel actually has a CPU within the CPU that talks over the network, it effectively layer minus two in a way that we don't know, right? It bypasses our operating systems, it bypasses all sorts of control measures. So we can't really change that code, we don't know when it's compromised, we don't know what's going on in there, and that from a control perspective for all of us is actually an issue. Now what I find so interesting is that there is actually other things going on in the hardware field. For me, if we were thinking about what it is that we actually would want, right, we would want an open architecture, right? We would want an architecture that we can all understand, we know what's going on. We want the chip design to be open, we would want to know what is in that chip, we would want to be able to build our own chips, we would want our own open firmware, and then we would want to run actual free software on top of that. Because we want a fully free stack, because a fully open and a fully free stack is the only one that we can fully trust because we can fully understand it. Of course the problem is, if we were to start from scratch building something like this today, we'd have a problem, right? I mean, the level of investment that you would need to build something that on the hardware level would be able to compete with data center hardware that Intel provides, that's rather substantial. I mean, it's not very simple. It seems dubious that anyone would actually ever do this because even Intel didn't get here overnight, right? The Intel architecture is derived from ultimately, personally, what was in Z80, a SEMBA programmer actually at some point in my life, very early on. When I then saw the 386, after having spent some time on the 68K, boy was I disappointed because it was essentially the Z80 on steroids. And it kind of still is. I mean, they cannot change too fundamentally. So there is another architecture, obviously, which is the power architecture. Now power coming from IBM also not necessarily the company that's always been extremely open. I mean, a lot of the monopoly abuse rules were written by them. However, they've also reinvented themselves quite a few times recently and what they have done and what has gotten very little attention, and in fact, most of people in our community that I speak to about this have never heard of this, is that they have put that technology into the open power foundation, which is an actual membership open foundation where people can join and can collaborate on building machines, chips, their own designs, working together on the next generation of hardware. And in fact, people do. I mean, Google is involved in their rec space. In fact, they've recently announced that their next data center machine is going to be a Power 9 machine. They've put out the design at the open power summit and said, here, this is our next design. The Chinese are now building their own open, their own power CPUs and they disabled some parts that they don't trust in the crypto side and so on and so forth. We don't trust this. This comes from IBM. We choose not to include these parts. We build our own CPUs now. I think that is really, really fascinating, actually. It's a really fascinating story and I think it goes exactly in the right direction. Because what we now start seeing is that people start building their own boxes. They start contributing to the designs and they start working on this and again, open power then also has this principle of non-aggression on the patent side, which gives us a very, very fascinating way in order to have data center hardware that is actually really, really strong. I mean, when you look at the performance of power versus Intel, power is actually quite interesting. It is very good at heavy compute. It is very, very good at parallel. It is really extremely powerful hardware. And so we've been working with IBM now on actually supporting power as well officially. I know Zuzo is fully on power. Zuzo is red hat just for the record. But ultimately the power platform has some properties that are very, very fascinating, especially when you can split your architecture up into many parallel threads, which is what Colub does really well. So for us, it was very easy to actually support that kind of approach. Because in order to trust, right, we know we want openness, we want control, and we want the ability to build our own. That is the necessary prerequisite for us to actually be able to trust. With Intel, that's going to be hard to have. Because ARM, and it has a lot of very good use cases, which is a lot better. And now there's also power, which is actually handled through a foundation, which I find is a very interesting model. And in fact, you will hear tomorrow that we've also joined the OpenPower Foundation because we find this interesting enough to get engaged ourselves. Because while it's not perfect, and the patent rules make everyone cringe, who's from our community, these are hardware people, they think differently about some things, right? The hardware and software are not always thinking the same way. However, it's a big step in the right direction. And I believe that as a community, we should really think about how to engage with this because we need the things that we can actually build upon. So we're going to be talking about that subject as well at the Colab Summit. In fact, tomorrow, I believe, Dr. Meyer from IBM, who is the director of hardware research from Birblingen, will be talking about power, what they're thinking about, the new architectures. Because everything is so small already, right? Making it smaller becomes no longer really an option. So now we're thinking nanotubes and all these fancy things, so he has some things to talk about that. And I would like to invite all of you, in fact, to come and have a look at this and get an idea of what's going on on the technical side there because it's really quite fascinating. You also have some stats between power 8, power 9, and so on and so forth. So there's some interesting stuff that he has to tell us on what's going on with the power thing. And of course, we're going to be talking about freedom in the cloud in particular, given that safe harbor is dead. Privacy shield is just about to die. Everyone expects it to fall apart very soon now, and there is no really good answers. So this is a time where for us as a community, which has answers to the question of, can I host this myself? Do I have to buy this only from one vendor in the US that's giving it to me as a cloud service or can I actually run this under my own control or my own servers or on service of a provider that I trust? We have very good answers to that. In fact, we are the ones who have the best answers right now. So we've invited one of the lawyers from Jotbebe, Berlin, which you might also know because it's the company where Til Jäger works, who's been the number one GPO enforcer in the world. And one of his colleagues is going to come and join us and talk about safe harbor, privacy shield, and where he sees that going at the current state of affairs. And of course, as we've done yesterday in Vienna, there's going to be plenty of beer and meat. So I hope you'll also join the barbecue. And I hope you will all grab myself or any of the other fellow collabians and sit with us, drink with us, and talk with us about how we can actually use the moment that exists right now to drive openness further down as well as further up. The time for that has never been better. So let's do that together. Thank you very much. Yeah, sure. If we have questions, go ahead. Questions? Oh, come on. All right, well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you, Doug. Come tomorrow, the Collab Summit will be in gallery tomorrow, and we'll see you there. Thank you. Thank you. Doug.
 Good afternoon, everyone.  My T-shirt is lying.  I'm actually straight out of Vienna right now.  We got in here like half an hour ago or so because we had our collab Taster event there  yesterday.  So I'm still halfway on the road with the brain, but it's all good.  We're going to be good.  I'm going to talk to you about shaping the future through collaboration because the primary  role that I feel today is as the CEO of Collab Systems, a pure free software enterprise.  In fact, what we do, I hope all of you already know, is collab, which does all these wonderful  things from your email, of course.  I mean, email keeps on dying, yet growing from year to year.  So I think it's not going to go away anytime soon.  So we do the whole range of calendaring, tasks, notes, email, contact, sharing.  It runs wonderfully on OpenZooza, by the way.  So Hans Derrath, who was here a second ago who just helped me set things up, has been  working with the OpenZooza community for years.  And so if you want to install it on OpenZooza, that's really, really easy.  But I'm not going to talk so much about what Collab is or what it does.  In fact, I think you can all find that out for yourself.  What I want to talk about more is actually the why.  Why does it matter?  I mean, what is driving us as a group, as a company, as a team?  There's quite a few of us around here, since we're having the call-up summit again in parallel  to the OpenZooza conference.  We did that last year in the Hague together.  We all felt it was a great success because of the way in which people could switch between  conferences.  And so you have quite a few of the Collabians here.  And we, at some point, set together trying to find out why it is that we do what we do.  Like what is it that drives us forward as a team, as a company, as a solution?  What are the important things for us to get up in the morning?  And so we did what everyone does.  We did a little retreat in the Bernese Alps.  So that's an original picture from that retreat, in fact.  And we tried to put our heads together.  And strangely enough, when we wrote down what mattered to us, it very much came down to  the same principles, and the word freedom ended up on there multiple times.  So we condensed it a bit.  And for us, the reason why we do what we do is that we want to provide freedom and choice  through technology.  It is the culture of the company, but also the culture we want to inspire into society.  And we want to deliver that freedom through collaboration, because for us, collaboration,  and the ability to work together is actually what binds human society together.  It is what really, really drives this.  So this is basically taken straight from the heart of what free software means, of what  open source is.  It's what drives our community.  And in fact, for us, that is exactly what we put at the heart of our business.  And that's why we don't do any open core.  We've never done any proprietary bullshit.  We do straight free software only.  Have always done that.  Now the problem is that when you do this, right, when you do things that matter to you,  sometimes you think people need to get that straight away.  They need to understand why it is that you do what you do and why that matters and why  it should also matter to them.  You think that they should use it just because it's open, but just because it's free.  And we have as a community had a long, long history of trying to just say, look, of course,  I mean, it may be a little bit worse, but you should still use it because it's open.  It gives you freedom.  And that is true.  It is however, if we are fully honest with ourselves, very often not enough to grab the  mainstream attention, to grab a sufficiently large number of people and make them want  this.  I mean, we need to grab them somewhere else.  And so when we started Collab, we actually thought about what do we need to do to get  this into the mainstream?  I mean, we want to actually make a change.  We can change things in our community.  And that's wonderful.  But that may not really reach the six, seven billion proverbial mailboxes that Jeroen keeps  talking about.  We want to have something that actually drives a larger change.  So how do we get there?  And for me, I mean, you see that actually what we have like proper design now, you will  see during the Collab Summit, we have really good ways of presenting things.  Now, because we're trying to make this appealing, that comes from an underlying, deeper motive.  And the place where I personally took inspiration from as well, and the team shares that feeling.  I mean, I myself, I called it what I usually call the Tesla moment.  The Tesla moment for me is, I mean, besides Elon Musk being a very interesting guy and  so on and so forth, is defined by the fact that Tesla decided to approach the subject  of electrical mobility in a completely new way.  Before Tesla, virtually all electric cars were pretty obviously built by people who  hate cars, for people who hate cars.  They were dinky toys, puny in comparison.  You can see they're still reflected in some of the electrical cars that big automobile  manufacturers built, right?  They look like a cheap copy of their actual car.  Tesla turned that around.  They said, all right, we want to actually make people drive electric cars and enjoy  driving electric cars because that's when they will buy them.  And that's when we can actually get people to ride electric cars and only electric.  So they said, we're going to build the best car and it's also going to be fully electric.  There's going to be no fuel option here, none.  So you do something that is better that grabs people where they are by what drives them,  what motivates them, what interests them.  And then you do it in the right way.  You put the right substance into it.  In order to actually be able to drive a mainstream change.  And I think Tesla has done that to a very large extent with the automobile industry.  When you see the amount of change that Tesla has affected into the automobile industry in  such a short period of time, that's quite amazing.  I mean, now everyone says, of course, you're going to do electric cars.  And of course, all the recent scandals also helped, but it was really Tesla that set this  change in motion in the way they approached this.  They built cars that people wanted, like really wanted.  In fact, I know many fans in the free software community of Tesla cars because they're rather  interesting.  I mean, yes, they have some issues.  They're not perfect.  It's all good.  But the way that they decided to approach it, I think we can learn from.  And it's funny because, I mean, Tesla does some things rather right.  I mean, when they said, oh, all our patents are belong to you.  You can use all our patents to build your own electric cars.  The one thing you can then no longer do is sue us for patent infringement.  We get to use your patents too.  We're really building a no fly zone for patents, which should sound familiar to quite a few  of you, I hope, because in fact, we as a community did that first.  That concept is actually the very same concept that the open invention network has taken.  And now I'm absolutely certain that Elon knew that and has seen that before also because  I mean, you see that his other very famous company, Space Access, also a signatory to  the OIN.  The point here is to create a no fly zone for patents in order to allow networks of innovation  to happen, to drive innovation in a broader sense, which is exactly what we do as a community.  We drive innovation by working together, sometimes even with our competitors in order to build  better technology that actually helps people, that builds something that is better.  And it's through that collaboration again that we actually are able to achieve so much  more with a diverse community of people that isn't...  We have, yes, we have a lot of people, but when you look at the actual number of developers  and the amount of change that they affect, we as the free software community are so much  more efficient than most proprietary companies I've seen.  We generate so much more in innovation.  It's quite astounding.  We achieve a lot more with much fewer resources.  So in fact, even though Tesla didn't exist at the time, the company, obviously a person  did before, but Linux to me is actually another example of where we had something like a Tesla  moment.  You see, Linux has spread much to the dismay of some people, we know, on its technical  merits to a very substantial part.  It has also transported the principles of open innovation, of collaboration, of working  together into areas that before were really, really close to them.  I mean, if you ask which company is using Linux today, the answer is pretty much everyone,  right?  There's not a single one that doesn't have it anywhere.  So this actually was, even though we may not have known it at the time, another such moment.  So I believe we can learn from this in the way we approach what we want to do by seeking  out these moments, by understanding that if we can combine the better with the right,  that we can actually bring about much faster change than we sometimes do by only focusing  on doing whatever we think is right, but neglecting to also understand that we need to build  something that's also better.  Because the innovation that we have had, I mean, think about the world as it would be  without free software, right?  I mean, most of the internet and Android handys, obviously, all of this has been brought about  by this amazing big ecosystem innovation.  We must be thinking about groups of innovation, ecosystems of innovation.  And when we look at the hardware side, and that's a story that I personally currently  find rather interesting, which is why I thought I'd shared with you, we see that there we've  had really dramatic absence of that.  I mean, we have ARM still, yes, but most of the world right now, most of the servers  in the data centers in particular run on Intel, the vast majority.  So Intel is controlling this, and Intel is a very proprietary company, as most of you  know.  So Intel is controlling that space to a very, very large extent.  And whenever something is proprietary, and I'm not telling you anything new here, the  question for us is, can we actually know what is going on in there?  I mean, anyone who's been in our community for more than a short while will have seen  several of the conversations about what is going on with the hardware platform on which  we stand.  In fact, even though we knew it a while ago, recently we finally got mainstream attention  on that in the sense that Intel actually has a CPU within the CPU that talks over the network,  it effectively layer minus two in a way that we don't know, right?  It bypasses our operating systems, it bypasses all sorts of control measures.  So we can't really change that code, we don't know when it's compromised, we don't know  what's going on in there, and that from a control perspective for all of us is actually  an issue.  Now what I find so interesting is that there is actually other things going on in the hardware  field.  For me, if we were thinking about what it is that we actually would want, right, we  would want an open architecture, right?  We would want an architecture that we can all understand, we know what's going on.  We want the chip design to be open, we would want to know what is in that chip, we would  want to be able to build our own chips, we would want our own open firmware, and then  we would want to run actual free software on top of that.  Because we want a fully free stack, because a fully open and a fully free stack is the  only one that we can fully trust because we can fully understand it.  Of course the problem is, if we were to start from scratch building something like this  today, we'd have a problem, right?  I mean, the level of investment that you would need to build something that on the hardware  level would be able to compete with data center hardware that Intel provides, that's rather  substantial.  I mean, it's not very simple.  It seems dubious that anyone would actually ever do this because even Intel didn't get  here overnight, right?  The Intel architecture is derived from ultimately, personally, what was in Z80, a SEMBA programmer  actually at some point in my life, very early on.  When I then saw the 386, after having spent some time on the 68K, boy was I disappointed  because it was essentially the Z80 on steroids.  And it kind of still is.  I mean, they cannot change too fundamentally.  So there is another architecture, obviously, which is the power architecture.  Now power coming from IBM also not necessarily the company that's always been extremely open.  I mean, a lot of the monopoly abuse rules were written by them.  However, they've also reinvented themselves quite a few times recently and what they have  done and what has gotten very little attention, and in fact, most of people in our community  that I speak to about this have never heard of this, is that they have put that technology  into the open power foundation, which is an actual membership open foundation where people  can join and can collaborate on building machines, chips, their own designs, working together  on the next generation of hardware.  And in fact, people do.  I mean, Google is involved in their rec space.  In fact, they've recently announced that their next data center machine is going to be a  Power 9 machine.  They've put out the design at the open power summit and said, here, this is our next design.  The Chinese are now building their own open, their own power CPUs and they disabled some  parts that they don't trust in the crypto side and so on and so forth.  We don't trust this.  This comes from IBM.  We choose not to include these parts.  We build our own CPUs now.  I think that is really, really fascinating, actually.  It's a really fascinating story and I think it goes exactly in the right direction.  Because what we now start seeing is that people start building their own boxes.  They start contributing to the designs and they start working on this and again, open  power then also has this principle of non-aggression on the patent side, which gives us a very,  very fascinating way in order to have data center hardware that is actually really, really  strong.  I mean, when you look at the performance of power versus Intel, power is actually quite  interesting.  It is very good at heavy compute.  It is very, very good at parallel.  It is really extremely powerful hardware.  And so we've been working with IBM now on actually supporting power as well officially.  I know Zuzo is fully on power.  Zuzo is red hat just for the record.  But ultimately the power platform has some properties that are very, very fascinating,  especially when you can split your architecture up into many parallel threads, which is what  Colub does really well.  So for us, it was very easy to actually support that kind of approach.  Because in order to trust, right, we know we want openness, we want control, and we want  the ability to build our own.  That is the necessary prerequisite for us to actually be able to trust.  With Intel, that's going to be hard to have.  Because ARM, and it has a lot of very good use cases, which is a lot better.  And now there's also power, which is actually handled through a foundation, which I find  is a very interesting model.  And in fact, you will hear tomorrow that we've also joined the OpenPower Foundation because  we find this interesting enough to get engaged ourselves.  Because while it's not perfect, and the patent rules make everyone cringe, who's from our  community, these are hardware people, they think differently about some things, right?  The hardware and software are not always thinking the same way.  However, it's a big step in the right direction.  And I believe that as a community, we should really think about how to engage with this  because we need the things that we can actually build upon.  So we're going to be talking about that subject as well at the Colab Summit.  In fact, tomorrow, I believe, Dr. Meyer from IBM, who is the director of hardware research  from Birblingen, will be talking about power, what they're thinking about, the new architectures.  Because everything is so small already, right?  Making it smaller becomes no longer really an option.  So now we're thinking nanotubes and all these fancy things, so he has some things to talk  about that.  And I would like to invite all of you, in fact, to come and have a look at this and  get an idea of what's going on on the technical side there because it's really quite fascinating.  You also have some stats between power 8, power 9, and so on and so forth.  So there's some interesting stuff that he has to tell us on what's going on with the  power thing.  And of course, we're going to be talking about freedom in the cloud in particular, given  that safe harbor is dead.  Privacy shield is just about to die.  Everyone expects it to fall apart very soon now, and there is no really good answers.  So this is a time where for us as a community, which has answers to the question of, can  I host this myself?  Do I have to buy this only from one vendor in the US that's giving it to me as a cloud  service or can I actually run this under my own control or my own servers or on service  of a provider that I trust?  We have very good answers to that.  In fact, we are the ones who have the best answers right now.  So we've invited one of the lawyers from Jotbebe, Berlin, which you might also know because  it's the company where Til Jäger works, who's been the number one GPO enforcer in the world.  And one of his colleagues is going to come and join us and talk about safe harbor, privacy  shield, and where he sees that going at the current state of affairs.  And of course, as we've done yesterday in Vienna, there's going to be plenty of beer  and meat.  So I hope you'll also join the barbecue.  And I hope you will all grab myself or any of the other fellow collabians and sit with  us, drink with us, and talk with us about how we can actually use the moment that exists  right now to drive openness further down as well as further up.  The time for that has never been better.  So let's do that together.  Thank you very much.  Yeah, sure.  If we have questions, go ahead.  Questions?  Oh, come on.  All right, well, thank you very much.  Appreciate it.  Thank you, Doug.  Come tomorrow, the Collab Summit will be in gallery tomorrow, and we'll see you there.  Thank you.  Thank you.  Doug.
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