Giving Away the Code Without Giving Away the Farm: A Business Model for Open Source Entrepreneurs
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Hackett, Blaine
“How do you make money selling software that is free?“ A valid question and one that is asked even from people who are in the open source community. The point of open source is to share and collaborate so how can you make sure your efforts benefit the greater open source community while still growing your business? There are several different models that businesses can leverage to profit from open source software including offering expertise as a supporter of popular open source projects to creating your own open source project to fit your business needs. This presentation will focus on how we created Bootleaf-OGC, an open source project, out of Bootleaf which in turn was based on two other open source projects (Bootstrap and Leaflet). We will discuss our decision making process for choosing the Bootleaf project to replace the current interface on our mapFeeder product, where the project is located on git-hub so attendees can download it, and our decision on what enhancements to give back to the project. We will also discuss our roadmap for moving forward with this project and other business decisions we are making around open source software. Attendees will come away from this presentation with information about open source business models, entrepreneurship, and knowledge of a new open source mapping application project they can utilize and contribute to.
 So just a little background information. Again, my name is Wayne Haggab. I'm the President of Flat Rock Geographics and we are a small geospatial solutions provider out of the Minneapolis St. Cloud area of Minnesota of the United States. And I started with open source geolongtime back in the late 90s. Took a master of the class from Steve Lyme at the University of Minnesota when I was going for my graduate degree. And been involved ever since when the first master of the user group meeting. Helped with the 2003 meeting and then was on the planning board for the 2013 class for Geoslotminef. So, better out, but this is the first time I've had the, uh, went to an international conference. Um, unless I guess I don't consider Ottawa, I was at Ottawa, but that after Minnesota I can drive out of us, so that's not international. No offense to any canique. But, anyways. Anyways, um, so excited to be here. It's been a great time. Um, so my presentation, giving away the code without giving away the farm, a business model for open source entrepreneurs. A ridiculously long title or a slide. So, I don't even know if some of you know what giving away the farm means, so I just short it up to making money, selling something that is free. We always, we always get that question, so I, well, how do you sell something at spree? So that's what I'm here to, hopefully relate to. First, why are you here? Well, there could be a lot of reasons, maybe these reasons, maybe you're the last person, because I walk here, I don't know. Um, but I'm gonna go on a limb and say that, uh, possibly so you might own a company, or you're a partner in a company, or maybe you don't like your job and you want to start your own company. But either way, I think you probably have entrepreneurial spirit, um, wanting to do things, uh, yourself. And, um, we know that the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well in, uh, South Korea. We only have to look at Pekyo talk, which I've been using, uh, we even made some calls on it. Works really good, and, um, so they were, you know, a small company, I think I just read they have over 100 million users now. So, that is, uh, a big jump. And I think the reason that they're so popular is they're awesome. They're motive-ass. My kids love this. They send this to me all the time. I think it's funny. I hope they're not trying to tell me something. So I believe that, uh, open source is entrepreneurship, um, because people who use it are satisfied with status quo. You know, they, uh, they want to make their own stuff. Maybe they don't like working for other people. Um, whatever the reason, uh, maybe there's arrogant. You know, I mean, you have to have a little bit of arrogance to it. You say, Hey, look at all this software over here. I can do something better than that. That's okay. Um, but it's really about self-reliance. And I was doing some study about entrepreneurship and I came across this internal locus of control. They've done a lot of studies and they say that they found that most entrepreneurs have this internal locus of control. And what that is basically is just that, um, you feel that you're responsible for your own stuff. It's not coincidence. It's not a lot. It's not a lot. What you do directly impact that success. So if you're an entrepreneur, you have the internal locus of control, which is not to be, um, confused with the dreaded internal locus of control, which pretty much just read to me leaves all the time. It's been way too much time on the slide for how long it looks. Anyways, um, moving on. So you're different. You're different breed. Um, you're not risk averse. I mean, because there is risk in the bow, which is involved in anything you use. Yes, right. You started business using that or Microsoft, whatever. Um, there's what's, it's, it's minimized because it's a non product. Um, there's support. Um, so you take on more risk when you start to delve into open source and, uh, make your own stuff. Um, but of course, when you start using off the shelf, it has limitations. You're limited by cost. You're limited by licensing. You're limited by functionality. And so that's not what you want to do in the open source world. Here we left freedom. Um, but I will contend to you that the level of risk that you're okay with will define the business model that you implement. So let's talk about some business models now. The first one is creating your own product. Ooh, is that exciting? Isn't it? Are you nuts? Now, why do I say that? I don't want to discourage anyone because, um, you know, that's really people want to do that. That's fine. But they just want people to know that it's not easy. It's a difficult thing to do. Um, and, um, but people got us successfully. We know that you've seen him around here. He's a two year old startup, which was just acquired by Apple for 30 million dollars, I believe. So two years old. So it can happen. So like I said, don't want to discourage you. But the first thing to do, if you're going to go down this road is get a mentor or a degree. Now, why do I say degree? Well, you get the first mentor, any kind of stuff, you know, right or not. So you get a second one and they might contradict what the other one says. So the third one allows you to validate. So it's a good idea to have people who've done it before who know what they're doing. So you're not going down that road by yourself. Um, because what's the most inevitably you're going to have to get funded. Whatever way it is, maybe, maybe you have a portion of your company already that might fund a product. I know that some of them have successfully with, um, they had, uh, like data provide and they'll have a nice set of revenue coming in to be able to support their product. But if not, you have to go get venture capitalist money, angel investors, whatever mentors doing it, told me that, um, if you had over 200, um, meetings to get his series A fund in one year all around the United States. So that's, that's tough to do. And then he had to go right on to that series B. So, um, and then investors want results. Um, so you might be back in the same place that you start. Um, so let's just go through what is a warning. So, um, you can be a rock star. You know, when you walk into password, you're going to be like, yeah, we love that game. So that's always fun. Um, you can be a rock star. You can be a rock star. You know, when you walk into password, you're going to be like, yeah, we love that game. So that's always fun. Um, you can sign up business partners, uh, that sell and support your product and you can get recurring revenue. What a novel idea. You mean I don't have to work an hour to pay for an hour. Money just comes in. That's crazy. That's, that's a very good, um, pro about, uh, creating your own product. Some of the cons, um, it's way different than having someone pay you to make some. You're putting an almost, uh, effort in order to pay back. Not me. Um, like I said, you need money to support it and speed the market is critical. You could have the greatest idea in the world. But if somebody gets there before you, you're done. Um, it's a tight window of success and you have to remember that with a product, it would help us. Good documentation, which is not necessarily easy to do. Um, and all your eggs and unbanned. So this fails the company pretty much. So just be mine. Creating customers. So you get paid for your work. You work an hour, you get paid for it. And the client always tells you exactly what they want. Right? Right? Oh, what I would suggest here is getting a very tight scope of work and making them sign it. And, uh, then if we try to scope, you say, no, no, no, you sign this. That's top. You can, there's ways to manage that. Um, and you may get dollars from supporting the app or even, you know, the client wants to add to it. Um, you'll get dollars from that. Some of the cons, uh, if you're using open source product, project, you want to give back. If you, somebody pays you to do it, they might say, no, you're not getting paid. Um, you're reinventing something new with time. Uh, and that can be tiresome. Um, and the more work you get, the more people you need to get. So you have to get employees. That means overhead. That means complicated. Um, and the customer wants, you might not, depending on your contract, you might not get paid that over. Supporting current open source project like quarter to B or something like that. Um, it's popular. So people know about the marketing already done. So it's easier to get work surrounding. Um, and then you have support when you're doing stuff by yourself. You're, you're it. That's it. Um, some of the cons, uh, it's not your end of a customer says, Hey, I like that, but I want to do this and this. Now you have to run that up chain and you'll probably get a response like, Oh, I have a great idea. We'll do that sometime in the future. So, uh, that's kind of a bummer because you don't know what your customer, of course you're limited to their. So the hybrid model is pretty much just taking any one of those and mix and match and put it together. Um, so how do you want to pose that is that like I said, if you have other parts to support a product, maybe you don't need outside fun. And of course that's the best way to go. Not to lean on other people. Um, and it's not boring. I mean, if you're one of those people who like to do a lot of different things, have hands on a lot of different things. Um, it's, it's an exciting way to go. Um, but again, the speed to market will solve our career product. It has to have so many things going on and it's, um, it's a lot. It's a lot of things in your mind. So the product, the world renowned map, which I'm sure none of you, none of you have heard of. This is our product map theater. While it's not world renowned that we do have folks using it in the United States and Vietnam and China and Vietnam and China. They're actually using it to track, um, trains, the moving of trains, the birds, not the, what? So basically what it is is a, um, a web-based task track. We work a lot of smaller governments, but we track assets, traffic sign, pavement management, um, permitting animals, things like that. So, um, that's essentially what it is. And, um, yeah, it's always worked well. It even works on mobile device, but it's just funky and it's not set up for mobile. So we just came to the decision because everything is going mobile. We had to do something and we wanted to have something with responsive design. Um, and we also knew we could not create anything from scratch because we're just too smart or sharp. So we started with some stuff. Well, we found this Mr. Brian McBride's bootleaf project. I don't know if any of you have looked at that, but it's, it's, it's the bill for us, uh, responsive at some of the functionality we needed, but of course, um, didn't have all the functionality. So we needed to extend it. And so we did, as we extended it into Map Intermobile or Bootleaf OGC. We kind of, this has been driven by, uh, current customers and we kind of got dragged, taking and screaming into making a kind of a general purpose GIS, um, mapping type of the, uh, interface because they like the tracking aspect of it, but they also already had, you know, some type of GIS viewer and they said, if we're going to go with your product, we need something that replaces that. It's the same thing. So we kind of got dragged, kicking and screaming into doing all this other stuff, printing and offering and all that other stuff like that. Um, so, uh, now I'd like you to do a live demo again. Am I not trying to do a live demo? Possibly we'll see how it works out here. So I'm going to pop over to my browser. I'm just going to refresh this. It's just good to go. So, just to show you through the different functionality. This is a city in Minnesota that we do work for. It depends over, uh, has this nice area for all the different layers for the headings. Some of these are coming from Mapbox. Some of them are mostly coming from Geo server stored in post GIS. But then we also, uh, and overhead, map server application where they had all their photos. So these are actually served up by map server from their server. So it's coming in from many different places. So I'll just go through a little scenario here. So I'm going to put a term on the Ash trees here. And I'm going to search them and I'm going to say, hey, we got to find all the four Ash trees because of what it cut those down. So here we go. Here's the four Ash that we can cut down. But now we have to tell people we're going to cut trees down by them because they're a lot of local crazy. And so we're going to make these profitable. So we're going to find profitable. So we turn them pink and now we're going to offer them. And it costs two meters, but I'm just going to feed. Now I'm going to go turn on parcels. And I will search the ones that fell within the buffer. And so you can see that where they are. And then I'm going to meet the mailing list so we can contact them. So what's going on? So that's pretty slick, you know, being able to get the information out to people really quick. A couple other things that I wanted to show were the, let's see, the annotation. I have a handy little deal here. So turn on the annotation there. And now these, these, this toolbar over here has several purposes, measuring, selecting, and drawing. So I can just draw an area. I want to draw attention to it. You can see that. Get that. Draw a little square there and I can go and put some information in there. Also just delete. So that's what we call the annotation here. They're printing. We call it map sharing. And so whatever's in this area will be printed out. And when you get next, you can either print that to a PDF, like a real PDF map, or you can make a map widget, which is kind of cool. You can embed this into websites. So if a city has parks, application they want, all they have to do is turn the parks on, map widget, it'll only bring up the parks over and they can embed that in their parks page instead of having people in the city go through this ridiculous list of stuff, grant parts. And this is kind of what it looks like if it's not embedded. So just kind of slick that. Okay, so I'm getting close to running out of time. Let me get back to the presentation here. My demo, I guess I wouldn't do not work on that. Where are we going with this? Well, we got some things to fix. The interface isn't perfect. I mean, that buffering thing, that should be a little bit easier. Regular users can't fix that very well. Printing maps, we use map pitch. There may be a better way to do that. Measuring tools we need to be able to, um, to switch between units and a crowdsourcing app. Actually, Brian McBride does have a project out there that the building damage assessment, we're looking at more, more thing that to a citizen connect or things like hot, you know, giving back what many ways to give back. Like I said, I've been on, you know, planning committee and such like that. We have all of the great volunteers here giving back to open search community. But we wanted to give back hope. So what are we giving back? So we're giving back the the map feeder mobile or the bootleaf OGC. And these are the features that we're including. These are the features that we're not including. Why? Well, we put a lot of time and effort into those. And at this time, we decided that we weren't going to include those. And so this is kind of that giving away the, the pro-vote gaming with the farm. And we put a lot of effort into this. It's not to say that we won't roll these out in the future. But right now, this is the top one is what we'll see the functionality that was added to the bootleaf project. Where can I get it? So that way you can get it. But if you go there now, there's nothing there. We had a few little tweaks to make just to divide the code up. So we're playing on doing that next week. So you can do two things. You can either you can either get a hold of me. This is my information. Or you can just keep going back to that site and see if it's if it's there. But I certainly will. If you email me, I will certainly let you know when it's out there. So are there any questions? Did we test with GeoServer 2.8? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, thank you for giving me the first question, which I can't answer. Our, our, our, our, uh, Whitman is our CTO. He would be able to answer that question. He's the techno nerd there. So anything else? So let's see what time is it. So yeah, we have about five minutes to, uh, yeah. Yeah. So, uh, did everybody ever hear that? Yeah. So I, I'd like us to try to get venture capitalists fits more term or angel investors, which are not so angels. Yeah. So we, and again, you know, what I was saying, you need to be all in on this. Um, you know, we weren't at the point where we were going to be running around the country, you know, for 200, 250 meetings. So we did some around in the, uh, the Twin Cities area. And they actually have a very active, um, angel investor, uh, community there. And it, it was very difficult because many of them just, the whole geospatial thing, they just, it wasn't, it wasn't a, uh, an application that consumers would use. And so they were just not white battling it. So it was, it was pretty difficult. Um, so we, we had a few meetings and, um, just decided to use the other, um, the theories of the company to fund what we were doing. All right. Either I bore you to tears or I answered all your questions. All right. Thanks.
 So just a little background information. Again, my name is Wayne Haggab. I'm the President  of Flat Rock Geographics and we are a small geospatial solutions provider out of the Minneapolis  St. Cloud area of Minnesota of the United States. And I started with open source geolongtime  back in the late 90s. Took a master of the class from Steve Lyme at the University of  Minnesota when I was going for my graduate degree. And been involved ever since when  the first master of the user group meeting. Helped with the 2003 meeting and then was  on the planning board for the 2013 class for Geoslotminef. So, better out, but this is  the first time I've had the, uh, went to an international conference. Um, unless I guess  I don't consider Ottawa, I was at Ottawa, but that after Minnesota I can drive out of  us, so that's not international. No offense to any canique. But, anyways. Anyways, um,  so excited to be here. It's been a great time. Um, so my presentation, giving away the code  without giving away the farm, a business model for open source entrepreneurs. A ridiculously  long title or a slide. So, I don't even know if some of you know what giving away the farm  means, so I just short it up to making money, selling something that is free. We always,  we always get that question, so I, well, how do you sell something at spree? So that's  what I'm here to, hopefully relate to. First, why are you here? Well, there could be a lot  of reasons, maybe these reasons, maybe you're the last person, because I walk here, I don't  know. Um, but I'm gonna go on a limb and say that, uh, possibly so you might own a company,  or you're a partner in a company, or maybe you don't like your job and you want to start  your own company. But either way, I think you probably have entrepreneurial spirit,  um, wanting to do things, uh, yourself. And, um, we know that the entrepreneurial spirit  is alive and well in, uh, South Korea. We only have to look at Pekyo talk, which I've  been using, uh, we even made some calls on it. Works really good, and, um, so they were,  you know, a small company, I think I just read they have over 100 million users now.  So, that is, uh, a big jump. And I think the reason that they're so popular is they're  awesome. They're motive-ass. My kids love this. They send this to me all the time. I  think it's funny. I hope they're not trying to tell me something. So I believe that, uh,  open source is entrepreneurship, um, because people who use it are satisfied with status  quo. You know, they, uh, they want to make their own stuff. Maybe they don't like working  for other people. Um, whatever the reason, uh, maybe there's arrogant. You know, I mean,  you have to have a little bit of arrogance to it. You say, Hey, look at all this software  over here. I can do something better than that. That's okay. Um, but it's really about  self-reliance. And I was doing some study about entrepreneurship and I came across this  internal locus of control. They've done a lot of studies and they say that they found  that most entrepreneurs have this internal locus of control. And what that is basically  is just that, um, you feel that you're responsible for your own stuff. It's not coincidence.  It's not a lot. It's not a lot. What you do directly impact that success. So if you're  an entrepreneur, you have the internal locus of control, which is not to be, um, confused  with the dreaded internal locus of control, which pretty much just read to me leaves all  the time. It's been way too much time on the slide for how long it looks. Anyways, um,  moving on. So you're different. You're different breed. Um, you're not risk averse. I mean,  because there is risk in the bow, which is involved in anything you use. Yes, right.  You started business using that or Microsoft, whatever. Um, there's what's, it's, it's  minimized because it's a non product. Um, there's support. Um, so you take on more risk  when you start to delve into open source and, uh, make your own stuff. Um, but of course,  when you start using off the shelf, it has limitations. You're limited by cost. You're  limited by licensing. You're limited by functionality. And so that's not what you want to do in  the open source world. Here we left freedom. Um, but I will contend to you that the level  of risk that you're okay with will define the business model that you implement. So  let's talk about some business models now. The first one is creating your own product.  Ooh, is that exciting? Isn't it? Are you nuts? Now, why do I say that? I don't want to discourage  anyone because, um, you know, that's really people want to do that. That's fine. But they  just want people to know that it's not easy. It's a difficult thing to do. Um, and, um,  but people got us successfully. We know that you've seen him around here. He's a two year  old startup, which was just acquired by Apple for 30 million dollars, I believe. So two years  old. So it can happen. So like I said, don't want to discourage you. But the first thing  to do, if you're going to go down this road is get a mentor or a degree. Now, why do I  say degree? Well, you get the first mentor, any kind of stuff, you know, right or not.  So you get a second one and they might contradict what the other one says. So the third one  allows you to validate. So it's a good idea to have people who've done it before who  know what they're doing. So you're not going down that road by yourself. Um, because what's  the most inevitably you're going to have to get funded. Whatever way it is, maybe, maybe  you have a portion of your company already that might fund a product. I know that some  of them have successfully with, um, they had, uh, like data provide and they'll have a nice  set of revenue coming in to be able to support their product. But if not, you have to go  get venture capitalist money, angel investors, whatever mentors doing it, told me that, um,  if you had over 200, um, meetings to get his series A fund in one year all around the  United States. So that's, that's tough to do. And then he had to go right on to that  series B. So, um, and then investors want results. Um, so you might be back in the same  place that you start. Um, so let's just go through what is a warning.  So, um, you can be a rock star. You know, when you walk into password, you're going  to be like, yeah, we love that game. So that's always fun. Um, you can be a rock star. You  can be a rock star. You know, when you walk into password, you're going to be like, yeah,  we love that game. So that's always fun. Um, you can sign up business partners, uh,  that sell and support your product and you can get recurring revenue. What a novel idea.  You mean I don't have to work an hour to pay for an hour. Money just comes in. That's  crazy. That's, that's a very good, um, pro about, uh, creating your own product. Some  of the cons, um, it's way different than having someone pay you to make some. You're putting  an almost, uh, effort in order to pay back. Not me. Um, like I said, you need money to  support it and speed the market is critical. You could have the greatest idea in the world.  But if somebody gets there before you, you're done. Um, it's a tight window of success and  you have to remember that with a product, it would help us. Good documentation, which  is not necessarily easy to do. Um, and all your eggs and unbanned. So this fails the  company pretty much. So just be mine. Creating customers. So you get paid for your work. You  work an hour, you get paid for it. And the client always tells you exactly what they  want. Right? Right? Oh, what I would suggest here is getting a very tight scope of work  and making them sign it. And, uh, then if we try to scope, you say, no, no, no, you  sign this. That's top. You can, there's ways to manage that. Um, and you may get dollars  from supporting the app or even, you know, the client wants to add to it. Um, you'll  get dollars from that. Some of the cons, uh, if you're using open source product, project,  you want to give back. If you, somebody pays you to do it, they might say, no, you're not  getting paid. Um, you're reinventing something new with time. Uh, and that can be tiresome.  Um, and the more work you get, the more people you need to get. So you have to get employees.  That means overhead. That means complicated. Um, and the customer wants, you might not,  depending on your contract, you might not get paid that over. Supporting current open  source project like quarter to B or something like that. Um, it's popular. So people know  about the marketing already done. So it's easier to get work surrounding. Um, and then you  have support when you're doing stuff by yourself. You're, you're it. That's it. Um, some of  the cons, uh, it's not your end of a customer says, Hey, I like that, but I want to do this  and this. Now you have to run that up chain and you'll probably get a response like, Oh,  I have a great idea. We'll do that sometime in the future. So, uh, that's kind of a bummer  because you don't know what your customer, of course you're limited to their. So the  hybrid model is pretty much just taking any one of those and mix and match and put it  together. Um, so how do you want to pose that is that like I said, if you have other parts  to support a product, maybe you don't need outside fun. And of course that's the best  way to go. Not to lean on other people. Um, and it's not boring. I mean, if you're one  of those people who like to do a lot of different things, have hands on a lot of different things.  Um, it's, it's an exciting way to go. Um, but again, the speed to market will solve  our career product. It has to have so many things going on and it's, um, it's a lot.  It's a lot of things in your mind. So the product, the world renowned map, which I'm  sure none of you, none of you have heard of. This is our product map theater. While it's  not world renowned that we do have folks using it in the United States and Vietnam and China  and Vietnam and China. They're actually using it to track, um, trains, the moving of trains,  the birds, not the, what? So basically what it is is a, um, a web-based  task track. We work a lot of smaller governments, but we track assets, traffic sign, pavement  management, um, permitting animals, things like that. So, um, that's essentially what  it is. And, um, yeah, it's always worked well. It even works on mobile device, but it's  just funky and it's not set up for mobile. So we just came to the decision because everything  is going mobile. We had to do something and we wanted to have something with responsive  design. Um, and we also knew we could not create anything from scratch because we're  just too smart or sharp. So we started with some stuff.  Well, we found this Mr. Brian McBride's bootleaf project. I don't know if any of you have looked  at that, but it's, it's, it's the bill for us, uh, responsive at some of the functionality  we needed, but of course, um, didn't have all the functionality. So we needed to extend  it. And so we did, as we extended it into Map Intermobile or Bootleaf OGC. We kind of,  this has been driven by, uh, current customers and we kind of got dragged, taking and screaming  into making a kind of a general purpose GIS, um, mapping type of the, uh, interface because  they like the tracking aspect of it, but they also already had, you know, some type of GIS  viewer and they said, if we're going to go with your product, we need something that  replaces that. It's the same thing. So we kind of got dragged, kicking and screaming  into doing all this other stuff, printing and offering and all that other stuff like  that. Um, so, uh, now I'd like you to do a live demo again. Am I not trying to do a  live demo? Possibly we'll see how it works out here. So I'm going to pop over to my browser.  I'm just going to refresh this. It's just good to go.  So, just to show you through the different functionality. This is a city in Minnesota  that we do work for. It depends over, uh, has this nice area for all the different layers  for the headings. Some of these are coming from Mapbox. Some of them are mostly coming from Geo  server stored in post GIS. But then we also, uh, and overhead, map server application where  they had all their photos. So these are actually served up by map server from their server.  So it's coming in from many different places. So I'll just go through a little scenario here.  So I'm going to put a term on the Ash trees here. And I'm going to search them and I'm going to say,  hey, we got to find all the four Ash trees because of what it cut those down. So here we go. Here's  the four Ash that we can cut down. But now we have to tell people we're going to cut trees down by  them because they're a lot of local crazy. And so we're going to make these profitable. So we're  going to find profitable. So we turn them pink and now we're going to offer them. And it costs  two meters, but I'm just going to feed. Now I'm going to go turn on parcels.  And I will search the ones that fell within the buffer.  And so you can see that where they are. And then I'm going to meet the mailing list so we can  contact them. So what's going on? So that's pretty slick, you know, being able to  get the information out to people really quick. A couple other things that I wanted to show  were the, let's see, the annotation. I have a handy little deal here. So  turn on the annotation there. And now these, these, this toolbar over here has several purposes,  measuring, selecting, and drawing. So I can just draw an area. I want to draw attention to it.  You can see that. Get that. Draw a little square there and I can go and put some information  in there. Also just delete. So that's what we call the annotation here. They're printing.  We call it map sharing. And so whatever's in this area will be printed out. And when you get next,  you can either print that to a PDF, like a real PDF map, or you can make a map widget,  which is kind of cool. You can embed this into websites. So if a city has parks,  application they want, all they have to do is turn the parks on, map widget, it'll only bring up  the parks over and they can embed that in their parks page instead of having people in the city  go through this ridiculous list of stuff, grant parts. And this is kind of what it looks like  if it's not embedded. So just kind of slick that. Okay, so I'm getting close to running out of time.  Let me get back to the presentation here. My demo, I guess I wouldn't do not work on that.  Where are we going with this? Well, we got some things to fix. The interface isn't perfect. I mean,  that buffering thing, that should be a little bit easier. Regular users can't fix that very well.  Printing maps, we use map pitch. There may be a better way to do that. Measuring tools we need  to be able to, um, to switch between units and a crowdsourcing app. Actually, Brian McBride  does have a project out there that the building damage assessment, we're looking at more,  more thing that to a citizen connect or things like hot, you know,  giving back what many ways to give back. Like I said, I've been on, you know, planning committee  and such like that. We have all of the great volunteers here giving back to open search  community. But we wanted to give back hope. So what are we giving back? So we're giving back the  the map feeder mobile or the bootleaf OGC. And these are the features that we're including.  These are the features that we're not including. Why? Well, we put a lot of time and effort into  those. And at this time, we decided that we weren't going to include those. And so this is kind of  that giving away the, the pro-vote gaming with the farm. And we put a lot of effort into this.  It's not to say that we won't roll these out in the future. But right now, this is the top one is  what we'll see the functionality that was added to the bootleaf project. Where can I get it?  So that way you can get it. But if you go there now, there's nothing there.  We had a few little tweaks to make just to divide the code up. So we're playing on doing that next  week. So you can do two things. You can either you can either get a hold of me. This is my information.  Or you can just keep going back to that site and see if it's if it's there. But I certainly will.  If you email me, I will certainly let you know when it's out there. So are there any questions?  Did we test with GeoServer 2.8?  Yeah. Yeah.  Yeah, well, thank you for giving me the first question, which I can't answer.  Our, our, our, our, uh, Whitman is our CTO. He would be able to answer that question. He's the  techno nerd there. So anything else?  So let's see what time is it. So yeah, we have about five minutes to, uh, yeah.  Yeah. So, uh, did everybody ever hear that?  Yeah. So I, I'd like us to try to get venture capitalists fits more term or angel investors,  which are not so angels. Yeah. So we, and again, you know, what I was saying, you need to be  all in on this. Um, you know, we weren't at the point where we were going to be running around  the country, you know, for 200, 250 meetings. So we did some around in the, uh, the Twin Cities  area. And they actually have a very active, um, angel investor, uh, community there. And it,  it was very difficult because many of them just, the whole geospatial thing, they just, it wasn't,  it wasn't a, uh, an application that consumers would use. And so they were just not  white battling it. So it was, it was pretty difficult. Um, so we, we had a few meetings  and, um, just decided to use the other, um, the theories of the company to fund what we were doing.  All right. Either I bore you to tears or I answered all your questions. All right. Thanks.
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