Serious tech for non-serious maps
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Montanari, Marco
Open Fantasy Map uses the technology stack of Open History Map to store data about fantasy worlds for role players to live their adventures in the best ways possible. The platform displays fantasy maps created via generative algorythms as well as digitized maps by artists. This also enables, thanks to the OHM technologies, to "fork" the world and have the players impacting and changing their world. Open Fantasy Map uses the technology of Open History Map to store data about fantasy worlds for role players to live their adventures in the best ways possible. The platform displays fantasy maps created in several waysa: On one hand it uses generative algorythms to create continents, countries, cities, streets, biomes, and many other elements for the players to interact with and to manage. On the other hand, it uses the tools created for Open History Map to digitize ancient maps to help artists digitize their own modern productions in order to make these maps interactively available to the players. The OHM technology stack enables also th eforking of the world into several different situations where the players can impact their own sections of the world. We want to share the experience in creating both the genrative algorythms as well as the platform. Authors and Affiliations – Montanari, Marco (1) Gigli, Lorenzo (2) , Taddia, Luca (3) (1) Open History Map (2) University of Bologna (3) Just Play Bologna Track – Use cases & applications Topic – Data collection, data sharing, data science, open data, big data, data exploitation platforms Level – 3 - Medium. Advanced knowledge is recommended. Language of the Presentation – English
 Hello everyone, welcome to first for G 2021. This is Jumanjua Castro in the morning and next we will be having Michael Montanay presenting Save Stack for non-save maps. So it's a joke Michael. Hello everyone again and welcome to the second presentation. This is way less serious than the previous one. This is the project starts from a collaboration with me as Open History Map and a team of, in Italy we call them Ludo Teca, it's a library with board games. So we end in collaboration with friends from university and the idea was to explore the concept of non-serious maps. And well, everybody started from somewhere in its passion for, in its passion for, thanks. It's, everybody started from a certain point of, of, in its passion for maps. For me it was probably the map of Zelda that made me love the inversion of the transformation from the specific world where we were in a specific block in our, in our map and in our, in our form and up to the global view of the map where we had an overview of the situation of where we had to go and how to get there and we had to plan how to move in this, in this world. And it was beautiful because it was simple and at the same time full of already a narration. More recently there's been a beautiful game-ish thing that is a 9-1-1 operator which is, which downloads and uses the data from, from Open Street Map to have the user, to have the player deciding and managing the whole, a whole team, a whole fleet of cars, motorbikes and delivery of trucks and so on, on a real map where randomly events happen and things happen and the player has to choose and has to make decisions based on space. Then came the lockdown and during the lockdown we had our, obviously the, the, the, the board game house was basically, was completely closed and we had to stay at home for one and a half years. We started reopening a few weeks ago and during this lockdown, Asmadi, the, the, the game editor started publishing parts of the games for remote play and so we started thinking why, well, why, why do we have to, to, to rely on just remote play on just an image, a PNG file to, to work on a map if we have a real map of the world. For example, this is a beautiful game Sherlock Holmes investigative consultant and all of its expansions and the, the, our idea became why can't we just transform this into an interactive thing for players to work on, to play with, to interact with the game that they already love because the game itself is really beautiful and favors the exploration of the world. And so we started just digitizing the, the, the maps as you can see here and placing them correctly in, in, on London and it's beautiful because the maps are perfect, almost perfectly alignable beside being a slightly, slightly more artistic and having some of the elements made more for, moved for artistical matters. And then we started collecting also additional elements, the, the, the pages of the New York, of the London Times that were added to the, to the, to the infrastructure, to the, to the set, the, the pages of the, of the in the, we call it a noir in English, it's the guzzeteer of the, of the, of the, that is already in the game and it's all publicly available imagery. And then we started saying why can we just add additional elements? We can, why can we just add the points to the, to the, to the map so that the player can not just play with a, with an element, with a explorer, a location, but also get into the location and see the Wikipedia article connected to the Diogenes Club and in eight S.O. or the St. James Palace or the church or and so on and so forth. And so it became from just a set of files dropped on a, on a server by an editor. It became, it became something more of an a way to explore the world. And so a few, several players, several players of our, our games, library started using this platform and other fans, other friends as well, started using the platform and are using the platform to do remote plays whenever they want. Because again, the game is very interesting and requires interaction between players, but not physical, not, and not anything that requires pieces of board, cardboard to be moved on a, on a table. But it's also, it's all based on interaction and decision making. And this is beautiful because we had the ability to help them live a better period during their horrible, during the complicated, not horrible per se, but complicated period that was the, the, the long lockdown. And so it's, it's a, it's a, it's a complicated period that was the, the, the long lockdown. The beautiful aspect is that obviously as a side effect and as a fan of historical maps, on the same map, the Charlotte, you can see in Charlotte, justplaybow.it, you can find also a map of another part of the world, which is not covered by the games, but we were starting to see if, if it was possible to locate and use other places as well to be able to, for example, get local narrators to expand on the concept of the game and work on that. Anyway, as a result of this, we had created a small experiment where we have people starting to play with maps and with these kinds of concepts. And so we started discussing with, we're all fans of roleplay game, RPGs, DND and so on. And so we started thinking, why can we just use the technology and the, and the stack that is behind Open History map to do fantasy maps? And so we started working on a small site project that is Open Fantasy Map. RPGs and more based on public domain and for use maps, based on custom designs made by artists, for example, we had, and where we had contacted, we have contacted and contacts with a few artists that already create maps for RPGs and for major editors. And we wanted to create a tool to help the maps, these maps to be able to navigable by the users, customizing by the user and transformable by the users. This is the most interesting aspect because given a moment in time and given a, and given a, an instant in a gaming world, we want to be able to have a user split the timeline from the main well, established time to have his players become part of the, of the events of the, of the, of this world. This is one of the main issues that we, we discussed that was interesting in our exploration of this, of this aspect. And so we could have a more open world where players have real impact. If we, the players want to mine the whole mountain, they can do that somehow. And this has impact both on pen and paper, where if they use a digital support to represent the map, as well as on massively multiple RPGs. And again, here is the architecture from open history map that we wanted to, to bring into open, open fantasy map. And to be honest, most of it is absolutely, is fine. The only element that we absolutely don't need is the historical street view because obviously there are no photos of either the Farron or the, the, the, the, the outer realms of Tulu or the, the worlds of Numenera. So it's not a matter of this drawing elements. It's a matter of having an overview of the place. This goes, and this means that we have the map support. We have the tile server support. We have the, the import support. We have the caching supports already available. We have the event index already available, which is a mess because obviously the events in a fantasy world are way more scars than, and sparse over time than in a real world, which means that, and this brings us to a fascinating side effect of this, of this gaming applications of map data. It is that these worlds are defined and empty. They are completely empty. There are, it's a common meme in, in the DND world that everything that happens happens in the sort goes, happens in one very small part of the, of the world, which is quite sad on one side, but it's obviously, obviously inevitable on the other one because it's a world, it's a whole world defined by a very small amount of artists and of writers and of content creators that define the description of that world. And this is, and we are seeing this side effect because there is an enormous precision in the way we describe a specific city, Silver Moon or, or Bergost or, or, or, Waterdeep, but it's absolutely vague the way we define the city that is miles and miles away from there. On the other hand, we, we have the map in the, the, the, the map, the open history map index that we can port in as the source for the DND or the source material for any kind of role play game rule set. And on the other hand, the, the data, data collector, which is a, it seems out of context, but in fact, there, there has been a lot of detail, there has been a lot of writing and details about several cities in several, the DND games, for example, and several, play gaming environments have defined a lot of detail on some aspects. So we want to bring that in as well. And as a result, we are working on it. So, so be kind. We're working on it, but we already have a general map of the Toriel with the detailed map of the Sword Coast, Waterdeep and the Silver, and the Silver March and Dale Lens and Cormier, the small city of Bergos. And we have several other cities with various levels of detail. Why have we started from here? Because we're, we wanted to play an adventure in, in Farron with, with the DND, but the real, another reason is that because it is possibly one of the best possible test beds for a setup like this. And on the other hand, because we have almost a lot of detail over a long period of time. So it's, it's perfect for defining events over time and changes over time in the world. We have the, the desert in the middle, the city of shade with all the desert and all the events that happened around the whole, the city. And so the timeline of the, of this world is well, very well defined and very well described. And so from this experience, we're trying to also recreate the maps around it with the, with projects with, that uses, using several elements. Some of the elements I already defined, the dimension for open history map, we're working on forking the timeline. And we can fork the timeline and have events that the players, we can say that a given event is the last one that is from a main timeline and from then on, the players have complete independence. That means that they can, that while we, we, we saw in, in an open history map, the movement of a ship, we can track them precisely. If the players were to play pirates and they placed themselves in the track, in the, in the track of that ship, they could in game encounter that ship, that that ship would be near to them and they could interact with it and they could decide to destroy that ship as a side effect of RPG actions. And that means that from that point on, that moment on, all the events that on the main timeline were defined connected to that ship, they will not see them. They will not be able to have side effects from those elements. And this means that, and this is one thing that we want to work on with as open history map, we need to understand the concept of ripples of an event over time and the impact of an event over time. And this is the reason why we want to use the same infrastructure as open history map. On the other hand, we have game events where, as I said, the interactions with the, with the map can create predefined modes of interactions with the world, meaning explosion, building objects, building, creating a building, creating something, altering the world in any form the, the characters might want. This has an enormous impact on the concept of open world and opening up a world. And this is possibly one of the main things that we want to work on in this, in this secondary aspect. This is not the only one because on one side, the digitization where process is in the works. And the, the, the, we're using the open history map public history toolkit as at least as a prototype of that. And we want to create transformation tools for map design platforms. And we obviously, we need to define new ontologies because open history map, open street map and open history map and digital humanities ontologies do not cover exactly the concept of magic, of specific races, or other kinds of elements that are very important in fantasy worlds, in high, high fantasy and, and the whole RPG world requires. On the other hand, we can, we want to create a tool for, for, for map designers to transform their vectors from Photoshop to draw their things on Photoshop as they do currently into something vector based to be easily transformed into something digital, into something interactive and explorable and integrating with, with standard tools to give better open world experiences to users, meaning something like role 20 or other elements that rely on a background that is defined. We want to try to integrate into that and offer open role play game worlds as an alternative, all with open source software. Whoops. So, well, that's it. Thanks. If you have questions, I'm here. Thank you very much, Michael. It has been a very fun talk. We have one question, one question, which I will be copying and putting a banner. So, there it is. Cthulhu. Cthulhu, interesting. We, we, I honestly, it depends in Italian, I would say Cthulhu. In English, I always heard Thulhu, but I don't know. Yeah, in Spanish, we tended to use Cthulhu or Cthulhu, I got seen Cthulhu. It's very interesting how everyone penises their same word differently. It's pure chaos. Well, we don't have any more questions. If you want to, you want, you can leave your questions in the question tab. I will leave a few minutes and you know we will be finishing and setting up the next speaker. Well, it seems like there are no more questions. We are just having a lot of discussion in how to pronounce Cthulhu. Whatever. So, thank you very much, Michael, for your two talks and, and he left. Whoops. Well, thank you very much, Michael. Okay, he's back. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. My internet suddenly failed somehow for a few seconds. Don't worry. And look at it. We have more questions now. So, sure. Next one would be, is there an open leaf for assessing the open fantasy map? Is there an open? If you have the link, I can paste it in the chat. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, it's, it's still, it's still a work in progress, but I will send you the direct link to the tutorial map maps, map.fantasymaps.org. Here. As I said, it's still work in progress. So, yeah. Okay, I will paste it and show that we will be taking it with a little sign. It is very interesting. Okay, we have time for one last question. How do you determine what projection to use? Well, it was in a very simple way, badly. No, honestly, it depends on the, on the structure. Basically, we have, we have reconducted the whole projection, per se, to the, to the fact that, for example, Toru was described as a world that is almost the same size as the Earth. And usually the planets defined by fantasy maps are worldish, earthish as a size. And for that, for example, with, with, with the pharon, we are defining everything as, as, as a PSG, as classic, with just 84. This is not true for all of the maps. And for some, for some maps, we have, we are discussing how to do that, because we have, for example, city maps, because all the events happen in just one city, one defined city without a world around it. And it's, it becomes complicated, because honestly, it's, it's, it's a mess. If it's just a city, personally, I usually use WGS as well, and put that city on New Island, and work on that, and we can rely on the fact that it would be more or less precise. And basically, the, the, in other cases, where the situation is more complicated, I honestly think it's, it can be nice, it can be useful to define for ways to transform from specific strange projections to the ones that we're using. The complicated part here is the fact that these maps are defined by artists, and artists are amazing people that have no clue on how Mercator maps, Mercator breaks the North and South poles. And so we have beautiful maps that have the same ways to look at the world that we have, but are artistically fascinating and place cities in a North that doesn't exist, or in a South that doesn't exist. So this is why sometimes when we look at strange maps and beautiful maps, something strange happens in the poles, but we don't quite get it. And this is, for example, why I personally appreciated somehow the, the, always appreciate the fact that in most fantasy worlds, most things happen on the equator, because it's obviously way more easy to, to manage and to transform. Of course. Okay, we have found out of time, I had another question, but I think we will have no time. So thank you very much, Michael. If you have questions, you can write me, you can send messages, anything, I'm here. Okay, perfect. I'm sure that people will be able to contact you. So thank you very much for your talks, Michael. Thank you. We'll be seeing you in Phospoji, and right. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you. And bye bye. Bye everyone. Okay, and next we will be setting a Luis Calisto for the rest that will be starting at half past. So, hi Luis. Hello. Hello. It seems the sound is working fine. So, okay, we will be waiting until half past to introduce you, maybe one or two minutes before, okay? Okay. Okay, see you soon. See you soon.
 Hello everyone, welcome to first for G 2021.  This is Jumanjua Castro in the morning and next we will be having Michael Montanay presenting  Save Stack for non-save maps. So it's a joke Michael.  Hello everyone again and welcome to the second presentation. This is way less serious than  the previous one. This is the project starts from a collaboration with me as Open History  Map and a team of, in Italy we call them Ludo Teca, it's a library with board games.  So we end in collaboration with friends from university and the idea was to explore the  concept of non-serious maps. And well, everybody started from somewhere in its passion for,  in its passion for, thanks. It's, everybody started from a certain point of,  of, in its passion for maps. For me it was probably the map of Zelda that made me  love the inversion of the transformation from the specific world where we were in a specific  block in our, in our map and in our, in our form and up to the global view of the map where we had  an overview of the situation of where we had to go and how to get there and we had to plan  how to move in this, in this world. And it was beautiful because it was simple and at the same  time full of already a narration. More recently there's been a beautiful game-ish thing that is  a 9-1-1 operator which is, which downloads and uses the data from, from Open Street Map  to have the user, to have the player deciding and managing the whole, a whole team, a whole  fleet of cars, motorbikes and delivery of trucks and so on, on a real map where randomly  events happen and things happen and the player has to choose and has to make decisions based on  space. Then came the lockdown and during the lockdown we had our, obviously the, the, the,  the board game house was basically, was completely closed and we had to stay at home for one and a  half years. We started reopening a few weeks ago and during this lockdown, Asmadi, the, the, the game  editor started publishing parts of the games for remote play and so we started thinking why, well,  why, why do we have to, to, to rely on just remote play on just an image, a PNG file to, to work on  a map if we have a real map of the world. For example, this is a beautiful game Sherlock Holmes  investigative consultant and all of its expansions and the, the, our idea became why can't we just  transform this into an interactive thing for players to work on, to play with, to interact  with the game that they already love because the game itself is really beautiful and favors the  exploration of the world. And so we started just digitizing the, the, the maps as you can see here  and placing them correctly in, in, on London and it's beautiful because the maps are perfect,  almost perfectly alignable beside being a slightly, slightly more artistic and having  some of the elements made more for, moved for artistical matters. And then we started collecting  also additional elements, the, the, the pages of the New York, of the London Times that were  added to the, to the, to the infrastructure, to the, to the set, the, the pages of the, of the  in the, we call it a noir in English, it's the guzzeteer of the, of the, of the, that is already  in the game and it's all publicly available imagery. And then we started saying why can we  just add additional elements? We can, why can we just add the points to the, to the, to the map so  that the player can not just play with a, with an element, with a explorer, a location, but also get  into the location and see the Wikipedia article connected to the Diogenes Club and in eight  S.O. or the St. James Palace or the church or and so on and so forth. And so it became from just a  set of files dropped on a, on a server by an editor. It became, it became something more of an  a way to explore the world. And so a few, several players, several  players of our, our games,  library started using this platform and other fans, other friends as well, started using the  platform and are using the platform to do remote plays whenever they want. Because again, the game  is very interesting and requires interaction between players, but not physical, not, and not  anything that requires pieces of board, cardboard to be moved on a, on a table. But it's also, it's  all based on interaction and decision making. And this is beautiful because we had the ability to  help them live a better period during their horrible, during the complicated, not horrible per se, but  complicated period that was the, the, the long lockdown. And so it's, it's a, it's a, it's a  complicated period that was the, the, the long lockdown.  The beautiful aspect is that obviously as a side effect and as a fan of historical maps,  on the same map, the Charlotte, you can see in Charlotte, justplaybow.it, you can find also a  map of another part of the world, which is not covered by the games, but we were starting to  see if, if it was possible to locate and use other places as well to be able to, for example,  get local narrators to expand on the concept of the game and work on that.  Anyway, as a result of this, we had created a small experiment where we have people starting to  play with maps and with these kinds of concepts. And so we started discussing with, we're all  fans of roleplay game, RPGs, DND and so on. And so we started thinking, why can we just use the  technology and the, and the stack that is behind Open History map to do fantasy maps? And so we  started working on a small site project that is Open Fantasy Map. RPGs and more based on public  domain and for use maps, based on custom designs made by artists, for example, we had, and where  we had contacted, we have contacted and contacts with a few artists that already create maps for  RPGs and for major editors. And we wanted to create a tool to help the maps, these maps to be able to  navigable by the users, customizing by the user and transformable by the users. This is the most  interesting aspect because given a moment in time and given a, and given a, an instant in a  gaming world, we want to be able to have a user split the timeline from the main well,  established time to have his players become part of the, of the events of the, of the, of this  world. This is one of the main issues that we, we discussed that was interesting in our exploration  of this, of this aspect. And so we could have a more open world where players have real impact.  If we, the players want to mine the whole mountain, they can do that somehow. And this has  impact both on pen and paper, where if they use a digital support to represent the map,  as well as on massively multiple RPGs. And again, here is the architecture from open history map  that we wanted to, to bring into open, open fantasy map. And to be honest, most of it is  absolutely, is fine. The only element that we absolutely don't need is the historical street  view because obviously there are no photos of either the Farron or the, the, the, the, the  outer realms of Tulu or the, the worlds of Numenera. So it's not a matter of this drawing  elements. It's a matter of having an overview of the place. This goes, and this means that we  have the map support. We have the tile server support. We have the, the import support. We have  the caching supports already available. We have the event index already available, which is a  mess because obviously the events in a fantasy world are way more scars than, and sparse over time  than in a real world, which means that, and this brings us to a fascinating side effect of this,  of this gaming applications of map data. It is that these worlds are defined and empty.  They are completely empty. There are, it's a common meme in, in the DND world that  everything that happens happens in the sort goes, happens in one very small part of the, of the world,  which is quite sad on one side, but it's obviously, obviously inevitable on the other one because it's  a world, it's a whole world defined by a very small amount of artists and of writers and of  content creators that define the description of that world. And this is, and we are seeing this  side effect because there is an enormous precision in the way we describe a specific city,  Silver Moon or, or Bergost or, or, or, Waterdeep, but it's absolutely vague the way we define the  city that is miles and miles away from there. On the other hand, we, we have the map in the, the,  the, the map, the open history map index that we can port in as the source for the DND  or the source material for any kind of role play game rule set. And on the other hand,  the, the data, data collector, which is a, it seems out of context, but in fact, there, there has been  a lot of detail, there has been a lot of writing and details about several cities in several,  the DND games, for example, and several,  play gaming environments have defined a lot of detail on some aspects. So we want to bring  that in as well. And as a result, we are working on it. So, so be kind. We're working on it,  but we already have a general map of the Toriel with the detailed map of the Sword Coast,  Waterdeep and the Silver, and the Silver March and Dale Lens and Cormier,  the small city of Bergos. And we have several other cities with various levels of detail.  Why have we started from here? Because we're, we wanted to play an adventure in, in Farron with,  with the DND, but the real, another reason is that because it is possibly one of the  best possible test beds for a setup like this. And on the other hand, because we have almost  a lot of detail over a long period of time. So it's, it's perfect for defining events over time  and changes over time in the world. We have the, the desert in the middle, the city of  shade with all the desert and all the events that happened around the whole, the city.  And so the timeline of the, of this world is well, very well defined and very well described.  And so from this experience, we're trying to also recreate the maps around it with the,  with projects with, that uses, using several elements. Some of the elements I already defined,  the dimension for open history map, we're working on forking the timeline.  And we can fork the timeline and have events that the players, we can say that a given event is the  last one that is from a main timeline and from then on, the players have complete independence.  That means that they can, that while we, we, we saw in, in an open history map, the movement of a  ship, we can track them precisely. If the players were to play pirates and they placed themselves  in the track, in the, in the track of that ship, they could in game encounter that ship,  that that ship would be near to them and they could interact with it and they could decide to  destroy that ship as a side effect of RPG actions. And that means that from that point on, that  moment on, all the events that on the main timeline were defined connected to that ship,  they will not see them. They will not be able to have side effects from those elements. And this  means that, and this is one thing that we want to work on with as open history map, we need to  understand the concept of ripples of an event over time and the impact of an event over time.  And this is the reason why we want to use the same infrastructure as open history map. On the other  hand, we have game events where, as I said, the interactions with the, with the map can create  predefined modes of interactions with the world, meaning explosion, building objects, building,  creating a building, creating something, altering the world in any form the, the characters might  want. This has an enormous impact on the concept of open world and opening up a world. And this is  possibly one of the main things that we want to work on in this, in this secondary aspect. This  is not the only one because on one side, the digitization where process is in the works. And  the, the, the, we're using the open history map public history toolkit as at least as a prototype  of that. And we want to create transformation tools for map design platforms. And we obviously,  we need to define new ontologies because open history map, open street map and open history map  and digital humanities ontologies do not cover exactly the concept of magic, of specific races,  or other kinds of elements that are very important in fantasy worlds, in high,  high fantasy and, and the whole RPG world requires. On the other hand, we can,  we want to create a tool for, for, for map designers to transform their  vectors from Photoshop to draw their things on Photoshop as they do currently into something  vector based to be easily transformed into something digital, into something interactive and  explorable and integrating with, with standard tools to give better open world experiences to  users, meaning something like role 20 or other elements that rely on a background that is defined.  We want to try to integrate into that and offer open role play game worlds as an alternative,  all with open source software. Whoops. So, well, that's it. Thanks. If you have questions, I'm here.  Thank you very much, Michael. It has been a very fun talk. We have one question,  one question, which I will be copying and putting a banner. So, there it is.  Cthulhu. Cthulhu, interesting.  We, we, I honestly, it depends in Italian, I would say Cthulhu. In English, I always heard  Thulhu, but I don't know. Yeah, in Spanish, we tended to use Cthulhu or Cthulhu, I got seen  Cthulhu. It's very interesting how everyone penises their same word differently. It's pure chaos.  Well, we don't have any more questions. If you want to, you want, you can leave your questions in  the question tab. I will leave a few minutes and you know we will be finishing and setting up the  next speaker. Well, it seems like there are no more questions. We are just having a lot of  discussion in how to pronounce Cthulhu. Whatever. So, thank you very much, Michael, for your two  talks and, and he left. Whoops.  Well, thank you very much, Michael. Okay, he's back. Sorry. Yeah, sorry. My internet suddenly  failed somehow for a few seconds. Don't worry. And look at it. We have more questions now. So,  sure. Next one would be, is there an open leaf for assessing the open fantasy map?  Is there an open? If you have the link, I can paste it in the chat. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, it's,  it's still, it's still a work in progress, but I will send you the direct link to the  tutorial map maps, map.fantasymaps.org. Here.  As I said, it's still work in progress. So, yeah.  Okay, I will paste it and show that we will be taking it with a little  sign. It is very interesting. Okay, we have time for one last question. How do you determine  what projection to use? Well, it was in a very simple way, badly. No, honestly, it depends on the,  on the structure. Basically, we have, we have reconducted the whole projection, per se, to the,  to the fact that, for example, Toru was described as a world that is almost the same size as the  Earth. And usually the planets defined by fantasy maps are worldish, earthish as a size. And for  that, for example, with, with, with the pharon, we are defining everything as, as, as a PSG,  as classic, with just 84. This is not true for all of the maps. And for some, for some maps, we have,  we are discussing how to do that, because we have, for example, city maps, because all the events  happen in just one city, one defined city without a world around it. And it's, it becomes complicated,  because honestly, it's, it's, it's a mess. If it's just a city, personally, I usually use WGS  as well, and put that city on New Island, and work on that, and we can rely on the fact that it would  be more or less precise. And basically, the, the, in other cases, where the situation is more complicated,  I honestly think it's, it can be nice, it can be useful to define for ways to transform from  specific strange projections to the ones that we're using. The complicated part here is the fact that  these maps are defined by artists, and artists are amazing people that have no clue on how  Mercator maps, Mercator breaks the North and South poles. And so we have beautiful maps that have the  same ways to look at the world that we have, but are artistically fascinating and place  cities in a North that doesn't exist, or in a South that doesn't exist. So this is why sometimes  when we look at strange maps and beautiful maps, something strange happens in the poles, but  we don't quite get it. And this is, for example, why I personally appreciated somehow the,  the, always appreciate the fact that in most fantasy worlds, most things happen on the equator,  because it's obviously way more easy to, to manage and to transform.  Of course. Okay, we have found out of time, I had another question, but I think we will have  no time. So thank you very much, Michael. If you have questions, you can write me, you can send  messages, anything, I'm here. Okay, perfect. I'm sure that people will be able to contact you. So  thank you very much for your talks, Michael. Thank you. We'll be seeing you in Phospoji,  and right. Absolutely. Thank you very much. Thank you. And bye bye. Bye everyone.  Okay, and next we will be setting a Luis Calisto for the rest that will be starting at half past.  So, hi Luis. Hello. Hello. It seems the sound is working fine. So, okay, we will be waiting until  half past to introduce you, maybe one or two minutes before, okay? Okay. Okay, see you soon. See you soon.
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