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                     I am a new developer who has been in the process of creating a story-based Erotic 3D Visual Novel game for a couple of months now.
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                     My question pertains directly to erotic story games such as 3D Visual Novels:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Do things such as *NON-GRATUITOUS* violence or graphic-forced sexual encounters turn you off, or is it something you enjoy? If you feel like commenting, please feel free to explain why or why not.
                     <br/>
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                     Hopefully this is not inappropriate/disallowed as I haven't made much use of General Discussion yet and I couldn't really find a ruling against posting something like this.
                     <br/>
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                     <i>
                      P.S., I'll add some further clarification: said violence or forced encounters should be as far from "gratuitous" as possible, in my personal opinion- it should be included only if it adds something important or relevant to the story and should also have an erotic element to it, particularly one that appeals to fetishes such as sadomasochism.
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                     Thanks in advance if you took the time to participate in the poll!
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                     For me there is a very thin line. Obviously, there are fetishes that deal with very dark subject matter, and I'd, for the most part, not discourage people from a healthy outlet of those fetishes. However, I'm not one to really enjoy anything more than some light bdsm.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When playing as a female protagonist, my ability to accept rape shifts a little bit toward the positive, but only insomuch as the character retains agency. In other words, if my choices lead down a dark path that ends in me being raped but there is a choice that would have allowed me to avoid that if I wasn't so careless, I'm more willing to accept it. However I don't really like retard in lechertown scenarios where my character is very clear in her desire not to have any sort of relations with anyone other than her absentee boyfriend and no matter what I do I either get molested or run into a game over screen.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Meanwhile, when rape serves the story in a more visceral fashion, for instance, one of my titles I'm working on starts with the MC being molested by his father, which acts a springboard for the rest of the game, I absolutely support this. Similarly, when the niece character is raped by her brother in front of her mother, in the scene revealing the dark plot of the sister in law to blackmail you, in the game Wicked Choices, I'm able to accept this scene, though I do play it, again, from the rapee's perspective. There are also graphic scenes in Depraved Awakening that I accept for plot reasons.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     However, I'm not going to play a game with graphic BDSM content where you're making the people bleed, or raping them for your pleasure. Of course I'm not saying that there isn't a market for that, nor that people who will enjoy that are wrong to, just that it's not my bag.
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                      I think satanism and hard religion its not acceptable need to be banned! Vampires
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                      mind control maybe
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                       ,
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                      but claws
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                       ,
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                       ,
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                      guts
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                       ,
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                       ,
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                       ,
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                      blood out
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="SrRK · Oct 15, 2018 at 4:32 PM" data-lb-id="post-1187372">
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                        For me there is a very thin line. Obviously, there are fetishes that deal with very dark subject matter, and I'd, for the most part, not discourage people from a healthy outlet of those fetishes. However, I'm not one to really enjoy anything more than some light bdsm.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        When playing as a female protagonist, my ability to accept rape shifts a little bit toward the positive, but only insomuch as the character retains agency. In other words, if my choices lead down a dark path that ends in me being raped but there is a choice that would have allowed me to avoid that if I wasn't so careless, I'm more willing to accept it. However I don't really like retard in lechertown scenarios where my character is very clear in her desire not to have any sort of relations with anyone other than her absentee boyfriend and no matter what I do I either get molested or run into a game over screen.
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                        Meanwhile, when rape serves the story in a more visceral fashion, for instance, one of my titles I'm working on starts with the MC being molested by his father, which acts a springboard for the rest of the game, I absolutely support this. Similarly, when the niece character is raped by her brother in front of her mother, in the scene revealing the dark plot of the sister in law to blackmail you, in the game Wicked Choices, I'm able to accept this scene, though I do play it, again, from the rapee's perspective. There are also graphic scenes in Depraved Awakening that I accept for plot reasons.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        However, I'm not going to play a game with graphic BDSM content where you're making the people bleed, or raping them for your pleasure. Of course I'm not saying that there isn't a market for that, nor that people who will enjoy that are wrong to, just that it's not my bag.
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                     Thanks for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate hearing varying perspectives.
                     <br/>
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                     Sadomasochism is sort of a strange one, sexually speaking. When you're someone who has very sadistic and masochistic fantasies, you're not necessarily a psychopath or anything like that- you can still respect people and not want anyone to get hurt. I view BDSM as a "socially acceptable" outlet of said fantasies where you can be sure that nobody is actually going to be harmed or forced to do anything they don't want to- but many of those practicing BDSM are obviously doing so because the idea of inflicting pain, humiliation, and forcing someone to do something against their will sexually arouses them. With that in mind- games like these are the perfect outlet for sadomasochism imo, because nobody truly gets hurt, even if you grow a sort of emotional attachment to the characters. It's a great, fictional place where one could explore the darker, more sadistic side of those fantasies.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I agree with you where it is important for it to serve the story, for example... the game I am creating follows a very witty, alluring, and masterful psychologist who has repressed sadomasochistic desires that end up being triggered due to a chance encounter. It is a suspense/erotica story where the main plot is his cat-and-mouse game with the detective who's tracking him, while simultaneously balancing his family &amp; professional life &amp; trying to repress his own desires. In said game, there are a few instances of forced sex which leads to him being tracked in the first place. It is very much about his internal struggle and self-control, but it's not solely a game for forced-sex... that just happens to be something that occurs three times. In other words, it isn't the main sexual theme of the game, it's just one of many that are explored on a deeper level. The rest is more on the
                     <s>
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                     side.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Out of curiosity, with the details I've given you, would that be something you're still interested in, regardless of the three forced-sex encounters that are somewhat vital to the story and his arc? (By the way, player's will be given the option to skip those scenes entirely- they will still occur and be referenced, players just wont be forced to see them). Thanks in advance
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                        Out of curiosity, with the details I've given you, would that be something you're still interested in, regardless of the three forced-sex encounters that are somewhat vital to the story and his arc? (By the way, player's will be given the option to skip those scenes entirely- they will still occur and be referenced, players just wont be forced to see them). Thanks in advance
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                     I'm a very empathetic person. I can allow myself to experience things from other perspectives very easy, and process the feelings associated. But, that leads me down some very uncomfortable roads sometimes. I've met my dark side, and he scares me. Even though I tend to really like dark themes, thrillers, lawful evil characters as protagonists (Dexter, Thanos, Yagami Light, etc) as well as chaotic evil characters like the Joker, when I'm faced with something too dark, I recoil. An example of that would be Nightcrawler, the Jake Gyllenhall film. When he started to show his darker side in the date with the news producer, I had to turn it off.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As for things I wouldn't be able to deal with, blood, if the sadist goes so far as to make her bleed, it's too much for me, no matter how much she looks like she's enjoying it. Forced body modifications, like nipple piercings, clit piercings, etc. Bodily function stuff, like vomit and scat are too much. I can deal with some watersports, but not as a focus, it's like mustard on a burger, a little is fine, too much and it overwhelms the flavor, but it's not necessary to enjoy it either. The M has to enjoy the pain for me.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There is one thing you can do that might make it easier to play it for people like myself. Make both your character who you're already thinking about, and the detective who pursues him, playable. That said, I can see how that might ruin it for people who aren't like me and would enjoy being your MC.
                     <br/>
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                     Regardless, good luck, it seems you're passionate about it, and not all games need to appeal to all people. But a passionate developer who really has a good idea is always good, even if I don't particularly like the game.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Oct 15, 2018 at 7:48 PM" data-lb-id="post-1187635">
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                     Honestly, I think you should more rely on the comments than on the pool itself to have an answer. We are all grown (wo)men here, and all have a (more or less) mind more open that what seem to be the average. It imply that us disagreing with a fetish, doesn't mean that we'll prevent anyone having it to play a game they'll like. So, most of the people who dislike graphic violence and/or forced sexual content will just not vote.
                     <br/>
                     But at the opposite, people who comments, whatever side they are, will tend to do it like
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="349166" data-username="@DarthSeduction" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/349166/">
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                     did. They will explain their position, and this is a better indication for you. It will help you find a compromise between "full dark fetish" and "rare fetish that can still reach a larger part of the community".
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                     Theres not much content focusing on women being hurt. If it does happen it's very limited and not the focus of the game. It seems to be a boner killer for most men, people don't ask for it and devs don't put it in. No will care if it's men who are being hurt.
                     <br/>
                     Rape is the most basic things one can have in a porn game tho. However most of the time the "victim" ends up enjoying it, and as we all know if you orgasm it's not really rape.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="SrRK · Oct 16, 2018 at 3:45 AM" data-lb-id="post-1188767">
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                        I'm a very empathetic person. I can allow myself to experience things from other perspectives very easy, and process the feelings associated. But, that leads me down some very uncomfortable roads sometimes. I've met my dark side, and he scares me. Even though I tend to really like dark themes, thrillers, lawful evil characters as protagonists (Dexter, Thanos, Yagami Light, etc) as well as chaotic evil characters like the Joker, when I'm faced with something too dark, I recoil. An example of that would be Nightcrawler, the Jake Gyllenhall film. When he started to show his darker side in the date with the news producer, I had to turn it off.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        As for things I wouldn't be able to deal with, blood, if the sadist goes so far as to make her bleed, it's too much for me, no matter how much she looks like she's enjoying it. Forced body modifications, like nipple piercings, clit piercings, etc. Bodily function stuff, like vomit and scat are too much. I can deal with some watersports, but not as a focus, it's like mustard on a burger, a little is fine, too much and it overwhelms the flavor, but it's not necessary to enjoy it either. The M has to enjoy the pain for me.
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                     I see exactly what you're saying! I am also very empathetic and tend to "feel" for characters, even in fictional stories, as I subconsciously put myself in their shoes. With that said, that's part of the thrill for me. I think players like games/stories with a sort of "thrilling" experience that takes them on a sort of emotional rollercoaster- even in story based PORN games. Hence, why I'm interested in the darker and more wrenching subject matter and why I'm creating a "suspense game."
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As for violence - I like a bit of violence in general, but when it comes to "forced sex," having physical violence included in this (such as hitting, blood, etc) would be a MAJOR turn off for me as it would just be too much sensory overload. I could never derive sexual pleasure from someone being brutally physically injured/suffering. The scene in "Boys Don't Cry" turned my stomach as she was being beaten in addition to being raped.
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                        Regardless, good luck, it seems you're passionate about it, and not all games need to appeal to all people. But a passionate developer who really has a good idea is always good, even if I don't particularly like the game.
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                     Oh yeah, I am definitely passionate about it and my goal isn't to appeal to a mainstream audience with this one, but rather to offer something different to the "niche" audience that enjoys sadomasochism that hasn't "properly" been offered before. The game I create that succeeds this one will be more of the mainstream variety. I mostly just created the poll to get a general outlook on how people feel about this type of thing- and it seems more people seem to enjoy it then I even projected. I thought it would actually be closer to a 50/50 split - but it would seem the audience for this type of content isn't as niche as I thought it would be.
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                        Honestly, I think you should more rely on the comments than on the pool itself to have an answer. We are all grown (wo)men here, and all have a (more or less) mind more open that what seem to be the average. It imply that us disagreing with a fetish, doesn't mean that we'll prevent anyone having it to play a game they'll like. So, most of the people who dislike graphic violence and/or forced sexual content will just not vote.
                        <br/>
                        But at the opposite, people who comments, whatever side they are, will tend to do it like
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                        did. They will explain their position, and this is a better indication for you. It will help you find a compromise between "full dark fetish" and "rare fetish that can still reach a larger part of the community".
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                     Good point, I indeed created the poll with a bit of skepticism as I assume the results won't be completely reliable- however, I am definitely surprised to learn that more people seem to actually LIKE this sort of thing then I initially thought. Thank you for your input btw. I plan to create a few different polls over the next week or so, but none of them will influence the actual story of my game. It's more to just get a general feel for what type of reception to expect.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="mesoru · Oct 16, 2018 at 4:28 AM" data-lb-id="post-1188892">
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                        Do things such as *NON-GRATUITOUS* violence or graphic-forced sexual encounters turn you off, or is it something you enjoy? If you feel like commenting, please feel free to explain why or why not.
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                     I like it. But for me it means the victim not enjoying/wanting the act and being desperate about it. I'm not talking about the person unwillingly taking a dick and suddenly going full ahegao mode, that shit turns me off so much. I usually prefer visceral content, but i can also accept a more subtle approach of non-con, where the victim doesn't want it, but can't block the body's responses of arousal, it's a difficult formula to get right tho.
                     <br/>
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                     Want to see a example of good non-gratuitous rape scene that at least I do find very hot?
                     <br/>
                     Take a look at the film "Irreversible". The scene is very important to the plot, is violent, makes my blood boil and turns me on very much.
                     <br/>
                     For games, i mention the Muv-Luv Alternative visual novel. There is a tentacle rape scene that certainly caught a lot of people off guard either by the impact of the act, the unexpect erotiscism it contained or the fact it was all happening to a beloved character. Giving PTSD to the fanbase till these days.
                     <br/>
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                     About why i like it? I guess it comes with sadomaso tendencies. I already enjoyed hard BDSM porn before venturing into hentai, so rape wasn't much of a big step. In story heavy titles i'm also more into dark fiction where the author doesn't feel like every character is made of porcelain and should be protected. Let's say i like to be surprised.
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                     I'm so vanilla they sing "ice ice baby" when I walk by so rape/gore is a bit much for me on account of me being such a delicate little flower or more that I just don't like it.
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                     I say that but I don't mind when it so over the top it borders on ridiculous like Bunny Black and Rance. Those are full of rape yet Bunny Black 1 and 2 are two of my fave games (please translate 3) and Rance is probably my second fave male protag just behind Naoe Yamato (he wins because in my game canon he's either shacked up with the lickable Momoyo or married to Azumi and those are my fave girls in the Majikoi series).
                     <br/>
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                     If a game tries to take itself too seriously and touch on those subjects I won't have anything to do with it. I've never been raped nor have any friends or family so it's not bringing back memories of trauma it's just not pleasant to see.
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                     I play games to have fun and as a perverted dyke I like to see women enjoying sex be they real or pixel and rape/torture doesn't tickle my pickle.
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                     If it's a game that's over the top it doesn't bother me but too serious and i'm out.
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                     That's just me though do not let that influence your ideas. As I said, i'm very vanilla so probably not the best to comment on this just thought i'd throw my tuppence in.
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                     Games are the best place to enjoy taboo acts. I don't like running over people in cars in real life, but I don't mind in GTA.
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                        Games are the best place to enjoy taboo acts. I don't like running over people in cars in real life, but I don't mind in GTA.
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                     Oh yeah... it's oddly satisfying to do, isn't it? Especially when said pedestrian does some stupid shit like hitting a 180 then sprinting out in front of the car... or flicking you off. However, THE most satisfying thing in GTA hands down is pulling someone out of their car and then beating them to death because they honked at you, lol.
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                        Games are the best place to enjoy taboo acts. I don't like running over people in cars in real life, but I don't mind in GTA.
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                     Sure, and I don't mind sex that's a lot more rough or questionably consensual in games either. But even if GTA let me, I wouldn't enjoy slowly stripping the flesh off the hooker I just picked up and killed. I don't say this to dissuade anyone from making anything. Simply giving you a more apt example of where and why someone might place a line.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I once had a nightmare in which I raped and killed my step-cousin. To some that might sound more like a fantasy, but trust me, the rape I barely remember, as if maybe the dream started after or skipped over that part. I definitely remember it was the reason I killed her and got rid of her body though. The vast majority of the dream wasn't the rape and murder, it was the next week or more of constant fear that I would get caught.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The memory of that feeling, the darkness of the beginning, the lack of remorse, only fear of punishment, is what I was referring to above when I said I've met my dark side and it scares me. I can get a kick out of arcade violence, but the moment we cross into more detailed, visceral, psychological experience, I have to pull away, because I really don't like how it makes me feel.
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                     CHARACTER DEPTH MATTERS!!!
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                      The Things We Do For Love
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                      Patreon
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="str8up · Aug 23, 2020 at 11:05 PM" data-lb-id="post-4056227">
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                         I think satanism and hard religion its not acceptable need to be banned! Vampires
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                          ,
                         </span>
                         mind control maybe
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                          ,
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                         but claws
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                          ,
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                         swords
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                          ,
                         </span>
                         guts
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                          ,
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                         occults
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                          ,
                         </span>
                         rituals
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                          ,
                         </span>
                         sacrifices
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                          ,
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                         blood out
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                          !
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                     WELL YOUR ON THE WRONG SITE THEN
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                     For me, there is something fundamentally different about sexual violence depicted in an over-the-top, unrealistic manner, and sexual violence as part of a story. And the most important thing is that the two do not mix. At all.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If an anime girl a gets raped by a horse cock in a game over scene, it is laughably unrealistic, and even if said girl is otherwise a sympathetic main character in a well crafted story, that I empathize with to a degree,I can probably get off to it. As an example, take the majority of games by Black Lilith.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     On the other hand, I can appreciate stories that feature sexual violence as a traumatic event, and deal with it in a way the subject deserves, but I won't get off to that. It can still work, even in an erotic story if given the proper care, but if that event itself is eroticized I will not enjoy the game/story sexually.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     An excellent example on a game that got ruined for me by improper handling of this is
                     <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/hitomi-my-step-sister-final-mercure.2710/">
                      this
                     </a>
                     game, and especially
                     <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/hitomi-my-step-sister-final-mercure.2710/br-reviews">
                      this one
                     </a>
                     . I wrote reviews for them in which I describe it in more detail, but to sum it up, once the sexual violence was introduced and handled poorly, I not longer enjoyed the games sexually, even though I did before. The same scenes got a different meaning, and were no longer enjoyable.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There is more nuance here. PoV plays a role, it is much easier to bear sexual violence if you play as the perpetrator, not the victim, even more so if you play a bad person or villain, because you do not empathize with them. Attachment to the character is also important. a random npc getting raped to establish the world and never getting mentioned again is different than a main or player character experiencing the same.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Edit: Apparently ths thread is from 2 years ago, I feel very silly now.
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                     If its optional I don't care but I don't get why anyone would like that.
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                     Personally, I don't enjoy such depictions, but if, as you say, they are non-gratuitous, if they are necessary for the plot, I will accept quite a bit. After all, I've played the "My Name is Luna" (The DeLuca Family) scene twice now.
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                     I admit that this fetish is something new for me. I'm not sure if I like it or not. Sure, there are people who like that. And i also like games where you can make decisions and sometimes they lead to the classiv "game over". And it is precisely in such places that it is sometimes consistent.
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                     But here I have a question:
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                     What is the difference between the tags "graphic violence" and "rape" differ? In terms of content it seems to be the same. But since both exist during the day, there must be a difference. I have not yet found a conclusive definition. I would be grateful if someone could explain this to me.
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                        But here I have a question:
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                        What is the difference between the tags "graphic violence" and "rape" differ? In terms of content it seems to be the same. But since both exist during the day, there must be a difference. I have not yet found a conclusive definition. I would be grateful if someone could explain this to me.
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                     graphic violence tends to be used to describe non-sexual violence. More murder, less rape.
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                        graphic violence tends to be used to describe non-sexual violence. More murder, less rape.
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                     So, in the games where I noticed this tag, there was a rape scene. But not the other stuff. I have to watch it.
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                     I guess it depends on the presentation when it comes to violence. Gore in early MK games was so absurd and over the top, but in MK10 and 11 went too far. MK10 has some distasteful shit like pulling out intestines through the mouth with a grappling hook and it's done slowly. The way people die in MK11 got too realistic and uncomfortable to me.
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                     Can't say I'm a fan of forced sex, it's ok if it's a plot point and I'm not playing as a rapist, I guess.
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                     I am a girl and i honestly like these kind of scenes in vidogames, because are just videogames, and inside some games we can do or see stuff that in real life we cannot...
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                     Of course i hate and dislike it in real life, but fantasy is different...
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                     It depends in part on the nature of the game. If the game is meant to be even remotely serious then. I would use the following rule.
                     <br/>
                     Lets say you have a character who describes the hell she escaped from to another person.
                     <br/>
                     Some might claim that is a good example of when it could be used. In truth it isn't. The focus should be on the action of what happened to the person. The focus should be on the character as they try to describe it and have to relive it.
                     <br/>
                     Think of a rape victim on the stand testifying against the guy who kidnapped and raped her. You want to focus more on her anguish and pain rather than what the actual rape.
                     <br/>
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                     If the game isn't meant to be taken serious and in itself isn't trying to make light of rape then it comes down to how it is presented and the reactions of the character and so on. A large number of porn games have variants of what would be legally classified as rape. Date rape, intoxication, mind altering... coercion, blackmail... and a lot more leading to it. That doesn't even include the out right monster rapes, characters raping one another. False consent rapes...
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                     Even then you could write around it. Movies do it all the time book authors manage to handle the topic without pictures.
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                     At the end of the day you have to decide is it necessary for the story you want to tell.
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                     Is it something your primary audience you are targeting needs to enjoy the story and do you want it attached to your name.
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                     I think devs should make games that they want to make (and/or play), not the games most people want to play.
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                     If You want to make a game with blood, gore and torture - go for it!
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                     If you want to make a game for those sweet, sweet patreon rupees -  maybe make yet another candy crush clone?
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                     I don't want anything to do with violence, BDSM, degradation, or forced sex at all.  If a game that I otherwise like has these scenes in it and I can't avoid them, then I basically fast forward through those parts.
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                     Ideally I want to see hot adult characters having kinky, messy consensual sex with multiple partners.  No dark side, all fun.  The other stuff is a big turn off for me
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                        I don't want anything to do with violence, BDSM, degradation, or forced sex at all.  If a game that I otherwise like has these scenes in it and I can't avoid them, then I basically fast forward through those parts.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Ideally I want to see hot adult characters having kinky, messy consensual sex with multiple partners.  No dark side, all fun.  The other stuff is a big turn off for me
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                     I agree with you. In the project I'm currently doing, there will be an optional BDSM path, but it will be in line with my own experience (first and second hand) with the kink community, so consent will be VERY, VERY  important.  The rest of the game is centered around a local polyamory community, so yes, lots of adults having sex with multiple partners. No Loli, no Incest, no Alpha Male Power Fantasy. I'm girded for the hate.
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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