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   [Discussion] BDSM in Adult games and in general! | F95zone
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              [Discussion] BDSM in Adult games and in general!
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                <time class="u-dt" data-date-string="Oct 26, 2018" data-time="1540553179" data-time-string="7:26 PM" datetime="2018-10-26T19:26:19+0800" dir="auto" title="Oct 26, 2018 at 7:26 PM">
                 Oct 26, 2018
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                     After some discussions in other threads and after
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="32227" data-username="@Furuichi Imadori" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/32227/">
                      @Furuichi Imadori
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                     suggested to create a thread for the theme around BDSM... Well here it is!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Feel free to discuss whatever you like that has to do with BDSM in any way. Well it is a huge thematic area!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Have fun! :biggrin:
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                           <b>
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                         <br/>
                         <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                          A big thanks to
                         </span>
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                          Krull
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                         <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                     She totally knows, that she needs to be punished, so she waits eagerly for it :happyblush
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                        She totally knows, that she needs to be punished, so she waits eagerly for it :happyblush
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                     I've put no but I can see why others like it.
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                     My girlfriend likes a bit of blindfold and hand/feet binding play but that's as far as it goes. As far as porn goes, the only BDSM I really like is in a comic called Sunstone.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The issue is I don't like the idea of submitting myself over to a persons complete control. I love my girlfriend and know she wouldn't push it too far but even thought i'm the more girly girl of the relationship i'm not quite submissive enough for it to work and be enjoyable for either of us.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When it comes to sex I know what I like and what I want at that moment in time and I don't like the idea of losing that control. On the flip side of that my girlfriend wouldn't suit being a sub, she a lot bigger than being into her fitness she's well toned and i'm tiny so me being the dom would look hilarious but I don't think it would please her.
                     <br/>
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                     We both like to have a handle on things and that kinda bleeds over into my fantasy preferences too. Don't get me wrong, I can watch a scene and get off to it like anyone but only so far. Anything being tying up does nothing for me.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="GhostPhil · Oct 26, 2018 at 9:07 PM" data-lb-id="post-1220339">
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                        My girlfriend likes a bit of blindfold and hind/feet binding play but that's as far as it goes. As far as porn goes, the only BDSM I really like is in a comic called Sunstone.
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                     Sunstone is my favourite comic and in my opinion one of the best medias to show what BDSM is and what it can be. Most importantly it shows the consent between two persons, in this case mainly two women.
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                        The issue is I don't like the idea of submitting myself over to a persons complete control. I love my girlfriend and know she wouldn't push it too far but even thought i'm the more girly girl of the relationship i'm not quite submissive enough for it to work and be enjoyable for either of us.
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                     Well the whole domination and submission is just a part of what BDSM is. I mean BDSM is somewhat an "umbrella term".
                     <br/>
                     But most importantly you can't force someone to be submissiv or dominant. As the most important thing (in my opinion) in BDSM is SSC (safe, sane and consensual), you should do what both of you like to do. I mean trying out new things is always a possibility.
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                        When it comes to sex I know what I like and what I want at that moment in time and I don't like the idea of losing that control. On the flip side of that my girlfriend wouldn't suit being a sub, she a lot bigger than being into her fitness she's well toned and i'm tiny so me being the dom would look hilarious but I don't think it would please her.
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                     I have to disagree that the figure is a reason for being or not being the dominant or submissiv part. As an example, in a relationship a 2 metre tall man can still be submissiv to his rather small wife. Looks shouldn't be the matter for something like this
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     But of course you should only do something you feel good with.
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                        I have to disagree that the figure is a reason for being or not being the dominant or submissiv part. As an example, in a relationship a 2 metre tall man can still be submissiv to his rather small wife. Looks shouldn't be the matter for something like this
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     I'm really bad at explaining myself, it wasn't meant as a reference to her figure alone.
                     <br/>
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                     Hmm, how to put it. I guess I look at her as the "protector" if you will, if that makes sense?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     She's the one I cuddle up to and makes me feel safe I would feel wrong about being a dom over her, it wouldn't be pleasing for me. I look up to her guess, she's been through a lot and she's tough both physically and mentally and taking control of her would feel "wrong".
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Still not sure i'm making any sense. First time she told me she liked being tied up so we gave it a try. I ruined 2 pairs of perfectly good tights tying her to our bed and we had one of those sleep masks handy that worked as a blindfold and she looked vulnerable and helpless, I could have done anything and I didn't like seeing her that way. She enjoys it so I do it for her but it's not my fave thing. I prefer being the one tied up but even then i'm not fully comfortable losing all control of what's going on.
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                     Yes, i like it. As a matter of fact, it was one my favorite porn genres before discovering hentai a long time ago.
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                     However, light and consensual BDSM feels too weak for me these days. Consensual non-consent on BDSM arouses me more, especially if the game has a good pace for escalating the sex scenes with the person's submission.
                     <br/>
                     Elements i like to see in games: maledom; most movement and sensory restraining bondage devices (although i prefer leaving the mouth free for... reasons, hehe); most sexual devices are entertaining as well; erotic spanking/whipping; body modification options for the slave (tattoos and piercings for example); erotic humiliation; orgasm denial.
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                        I'm really bad at explaining myself, it wasn't meant as a reference to her figure alone.
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                     That counts for me as well, especially when you consider that my main language isn't English and I sometimes have problems to express my thoughts as they are in my head
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                        Hmm, how to put it. I guess I look at her as the "protector" if you will, if that makes sense?
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                     Yes it makes totally sence for me. (Well I hope :coldsweat
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                     Well you could see something like this as some kind of role-play as well. I mean theoretically you can be whoever you want in a relationship, it should just be ok with both patners I guess.
                     <br/>
                     There are quite some examples for what directions you can go in a relationship, like dom/sub; pet-play; role-play,etc.
                     <br/>
                     These are things that can be combined, but also lived out as single parts.
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                        She's the one I cuddle up to and makes me feel safe I would feel wrong about being a dom over her, it wouldn't be pleasing for me. I look up to her guess, she's been through a lot and she's tough both physically and mentally and taking control of her would feel "wrong".
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                     If it doesn't feel right, then it isn't for you. You should always hear what your feelings tell you in these situations.
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                        Still not sure i'm making any sense. First time she told me she liked being tied up so we gave it a try. I ruined 2 pairs of perfectly good tights tying her to our bed and we had one of those sleep masks handy that worked as a blindfold and she looked vulnerable and helpless, I could have done anything and I didn't like seeing her that way. She enjoys it so I do it for her but it's not my fave thing. I prefer being the one tied up but even then i'm not fully comfortable losing all control of what's going on.
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                     I hope I can discribe this without sounding too confusing... As you said, she is tough physically and mentally and if I interpret it right, she is normally more in controll of things. So if she wants to be "controlled", she might want to let loose and give away the controll to a person she trusts, so you.
                     <br/>
                     But as I said I am just trying to explain things :coldsweat: It just sounds a bit like "stories" when a manager (or a person with some power, who normally is always the on in controll) visits a Dominatrix.
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                        Yes, i like it. As a matter of fact, it was one my favorite porn genres before discovering hentai a long time ago.
                        <br/>
                        However, light and consensual BDSM feels too weak for me these days. Consensual non-consent on BDSM arouses me more,...
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                     I can see what you meen here. For me it is a bit similiar. In real life I could never do something without consent, but in games you have the possibility to experience things you would never do or could never do.
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                     So I like to play at the borders of consent.
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                        especially if the game has a good pace for escalating the sex scenes with the person's submission.
                        <br/>
                        Elements i like to see in games: maledom; most movement and sensory restraining bondage devices (although i prefer leaving the mouth free for... reasons, hehe); most sexual devices are entertaining as well; erotic spanking/whipping; body modification options for the slave (tattoos and piercings for example); erotic humiliation; orgasm denial.
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                     But you have to admit, that these things totally work with 100% consent as well. :coldsweat:
                     <br/>
                     I have to agree that these things are totally hot! I wish there were games with this, especiall 3DCG games, but most games have just a little tiny bit of these. (That's why I am thinking of at least writing my own story with a BDSM theme) :biggrin:
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                     I like BDSM in porn games with a clear preference for lesbian BDSM. A perfect scenario for me would be a mysterious lady seducing a milf who was only in straight non-BDSM relationships before and who may still find both bdsm and lesbian sex kind of taboo. In general I prefer playing the dominant character, though this is not a strict rule. Other scenarios I'd like to see is a mother-daughter setting with a heavy preference for a dominant daughter. One more idea I have in mind is about a powerful woman with secret submissive tendencies, no one is allowed to know about.
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                        I like BDSM in porn games with a clear preference for lesbian BDSM. A perfect scenario for me would be a mysterious lady seducing a milf who was only in straight non-BDSM relationships before and who may still find both bdsm and lesbian sex kind of taboo. In general I prefer playing the dominant character, though this is not a strict rule. Other scenarios I'd like to see is a mother-daughter setting with a heavy preference for a dominant daughter. One more idea I have in mind is about a powerful woman with secret submissive tendencies, no one is allowed to know about.
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                     Yeah lesbian BDSM has a whole different feel to it. I am actually surprised that you prefer the younger woman to dominate the older/mature one. I kind of thought that it always fits better when the older one dominates the younger one. Especially in a daughter-mother relationship. But I have to say I would totally be curious for a game with this.
                     <br/>
                     Well the secret submissive tendency is for me the typical powerful manager type, who goes to a dominatrix to let loose
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                        In rare occasions I may play a straight BDSM game too, but with much less enthusiasm. In addition to that, for a straight game, the male character has to be the protagonist and he has to be the dominant partner.
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                     Well everyone has its preferences. For me the best example for a lesbian relationship is in the comic
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/sunstone-stjepan-sejic.4639/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Sunstone
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                     . The BDSM theme is captured perfectly and the lesbian relationship is really cute
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                        what are your favorite bdsm themed games?
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                     Good question! In my opinion there aren't really any good ones. And that's because none of these games really focus on the whole BDSM theme. You can be lucky to get some scenes with a character, but either they are short, not good developted or you just have the feeling that the dev doesn't really know much about it.
                     <br/>
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                     Sisterly Lust for example has interactions with 3 characters that you could call BDSM themed:
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                       with the second sister, as it semes this will develop in a deeper BDSM relationship in the future, but the biggest problem with this is that it all starts with you blackmailing her...
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                       with a friend of the youngest sister, she likes to call you master and is really submissiv during sex. She loves rough sex and I have the feeling that there will be some awsome scenes with her in the future
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                       the mother of the MC is actually a dominatrix with her own workplace, there are some really good BDSM themed scenes with her dominating the MC and her secretary. This are actually one of the best BDSM scenes in a game that I have seen so far.
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                     One of my favorite kinks is submissive girls and all that jazz. But I dont really care for the real hardcore BDSM stuff with leather, chains, whips and weird contraptions. I fucking love slave collars though XD
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                     edit: More specifically, what I love the most in these scenarios is the psychological aspect rather than the sexual act itself. I like it when the male protagonist dominates people of authority. Mainly, the mother (++ sisters heh). Although blackmail is usually required to kick things off, it should not be the only crutch that holds the relationship together. Sooner, rather than later, the submissive streak should come out and the girl enamored by the confidence/masculinity/bigdick? of the male char.
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                     I certainly enjoy mind control and potion stuff too, but there is something more satisfying when you dominate them naturally.
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                        Yeah lesbian BDSM has a whole different feel to it. I am actually surprised that you prefer the younger woman to dominate the older/mature one. I kind of thought that it always fits better when the older one dominates the younger one. Especially in a daughter-mother relationship. But I have to say I would totally be curious for a game with this.
                        <br/>
                        Well the secret submissive tendency is for me the typical powerful manager type, who goes to a dominatrix to let loose
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                        Well everyone has its preferences. For me the best example for a lesbian relationship is in the comic
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/sunstone-stjepan-sejic.4639/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Sunstone
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                        . The BDSM theme is captured perfectly and the lesbian relationship is really cute
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                     Maybe because a successful rebellion is sexier than preserving an existing hierarchie. Or maybe just because I like to see a hot milf dominated. I can't say the exact reasons, but in general I prefer younger ladies dominating milfs. This could be a slightly tomboy-ish geek girl dominating her more traditionally feminine mom or a mysterious lady in black seducing a mature housewife into leaving her family behind for life of sexual servitude. For me it adds a lot of additional excitement, if the mature lady hasn't been in a lesbian relationship before and feels sexual attraction to a woman for the first time, giving even power to the woman dominating her.
                     <br/>
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                     For the secretly submissive storyline I think it might work in a lesbian as well as in a straight version, though I always prefer the lesbian variant. If there was a straight version I'd only play one with a secretly submissive woman. A game with a secretly submissive male character wouldn't make it anywhere near my harddisk *shudder*. I think different sets of clothing would be great for such a game, with the secretly submissive character wearing a uniform or armor in public, while wearing lingerie, high heels plus BDSM gear such as blind folds or gags during the sex scenes.
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                        One of my favorite kinks is submissive girls and all that jazz. But I dont really care for the real hardcore BDSM stuff with leather, chains, whips and weird contraptions. I fucking love slave collars though XD
                        <br/>
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                        edit: More specifically, what I love the most in these scenarios is the psychological aspect rather than the sexual act itself. I like it when the male protagonist dominates people of authority. Mainly, the mother (++ sisters heh). Although blackmail is usually required to kick things off, it should not be the only crutch that holds the relationship together. Sooner, rather than later, the submissive streak should come out and the girl enamored by the confidence/masculinity/bigdick? of the male char.
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                        I certainly enjoy mind control and potion stuff too, but there is something more satisfying when you dominate them naturally.
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                     I agree that the psychological aspect is a big thing for me as well. Although I love just every aspect of BDSM in a way :biggrin:
                     <br/>
                     Well two games that start the domination relationship of with blackmail are Sisterly Lust and Man of the House. In MotH the relationship changes totally in a Dom/Sub one even after you can't control the sister by blackmail anymore. After this it gets quite good in my opinion.
                     <br/>
                     In Sisterly Lust it actually happens quite similiar.
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                     So yeah I am no big fan of blackmail or any kind of mind control "plot device".
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                     I want to the submissiv part to realice that she actually like to submit to the dominant part.
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                        Maybe because a successful rebellion is sexier than preserving an existing hierarchie. Or maybe just because I like to see a hot milf dominated. I can't say the exact reasons, but in general I prefer younger ladies dominating milfs. This could be a slightly tomboy-ish geek girl dominating her more traditionally feminine mom or a mysterious lady in black seducing a mature housewife into leaving her family behind for life of sexual servitude. For me it adds a lot of additional excitement, if the mature lady hasn't been in a lesbian relationship before and feels sexual attraction to a woman for the first time, giving even power to the woman dominating her.
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                     That's an interessting view at this and I quite like the idea of this. Especially because it is quite different to my view of this. So are there actually games with this kind of relationship?
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                        For the secretly submissive storyline I think it might work in a lesbian as well as in a straight version, though I always prefer the lesbian variant. If there was a straight version I'd only play one with a secretly submissive woman. A game with a secretly submissive male character wouldn't make it anywhere near my harddisk *shudder*. I think different sets of clothing would be great for such a game, with the secretly submissive character wearing a uniform or armor in public, while wearing lingerie, high heels plus BDSM gear such as blind folds or gags during the sex scenes.
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                     For me scenes with only women are a lot more "erotic" in an artistic way, while scenes with a man and a woman are kind of more sexual. (Kind of difficult to describe)
                     <br/>
                     Well different sets of clothing are a must in any kind of BDSM themed games :coldsweat:
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                     And BDSM gear or devices aren't used enough in my opinion.
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                        That's an interessting view at this and I quite like the idea of this. Especially because it is quite different to my view of this. So are there actually games with this kind of relationship?
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                        For me scenes with only women are a lot more "erotic" in an artistic way, while scenes with a man and a woman are kind of more sexual. (Kind of difficult to describe)
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                        Well different sets of clothing are a must in any kind of BDSM themed games :coldsweat:
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                        And BDSM gear or devices aren't used enough in my opinion.
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                     After Invasion has scenes, where the daughter (or son, if you play as a male character) spanks the mom and enslaves a milf neighbor. I currently haven't found any games where a milf is dominated by a mysterious lady and I haven't found any games with the secretly submissive powerful lady.
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                     In general, I think, there are rather few BDSM games. I think this may be because various corruption games already take the idea of domination a step further.
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                        After Invasion has scenes, where the daughter (or son, if you play as a male character) spanks the mom and enslaves a milf neighbor. I currently haven't found any games where a milf is dominated by a mysterious lady and I haven't found any games with the secretly submissive powerful lady.
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                     I would actually love to play games, where you play a female protagonist, that is dominant and that can dominate others females or males doesn't matter for me
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                        In general, I think, there are rather few BDSM games. I think this may be because various corruption games already take the idea of domination a step further.
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                     My problem with these corruption games is, that they use things like drugs, superpowers, blackmail, etc. a lot! And that is like a no go start into any kind of BDSM for me...
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                        After Invasion has scenes, where the daughter (or son, if you play as a male character) spanks the mom and enslaves a milf neighbor. I currently haven't found any games where a milf is dominated by a mysterious lady and I haven't found any games with the secretly submissive powerful lady.
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                     A game where I wished the whole story would be different is "Fashion business". The only character that I like and find in any way sympathetic is the female protagonist and at the start you really think that you kind of can play dominant path with her, but yeah the game sadly is a lot different and I kind of don't like it...
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                        Is this strapon to you liking? :closedtongue::closedtongue::biggrin::evilsmile:
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                     XDx'D
                     <br/>
                     I think that will be fine.
                     <br/>
                     I would like to make an appointment with Eleanor, is it possible
                     <img alt=":eek:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite675" data-shortname=":eek:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Eek!    :eek:"/>
                     penedeyewink:?
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                        Furuichi Imadori said:
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                        XDx'D
                        <br/>
                        I think that will be fine.
                        <br/>
                        I would like to make an appointment with Eleanor, is it possible
                        <img alt=":eek:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite675" data-shortname=":eek:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Eek!    :eek:"/>
                        penedeyewink:?
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                     Haha :biggrin:
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     (Well it depends, if you want to dirty the reputation of the goddess :biggrin
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     <br/>
                     Jokes aside, let me hear it
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          A big thanks to
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                        Is this strapon to you liking? :closedtongue::closedtongue::biggrin::evilsmile:
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                     Holy MOSES OF THE JESUS!!! That's a big NO for me. I love being submissive as well as being dominant. There's no way I am gonna let her fuck me with that. Okay maybe if it's Women's day then I might consider it.
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                     maybe something like that ? :angel:
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                        Holy MOSES OF THE JESUS!!! That's a big NO for me. I love being submissive as well as being dominant. There's no way I am gonna let her fuck me with that. Okay maybe if it's Women's day then I might consider it.
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                     It was more of a joke with
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="32227" data-username="@Furuichi Imadori" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/32227/">
                      @Furuichi Imadori
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                     because of the disscussion on the High Life thread, but I agree I wouldn't let her come near me at all! I mean who even produces such enormous strapons? :coldsweat:
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          A big thanks to
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                        NuclearZombie said:
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                        maybe something like that ? :angel:
                        <br/>
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                         View attachment 173661
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                     Look at Debauchery Chainsaw Mastrubation for some gory chainsaw stuff :coldsweat:
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                          A big thanks to
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
                         </span>
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                            maybe something like that ? :angel:
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                     That thing on her crotch. It looks familiar...
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                     Oh wait a minute, that's the thing I was born with when I burst out of my momma's womb
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                        Look at Debauchery Chainsaw Mastrubation for some gory chainsaw stuff :coldsweat:
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                     Yeah or at Funeral Rape
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                        NuclearZombie said:
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                        Yeah or at Funeral Rape
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                             Funeral Rape
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                     Looks like some Japanese stuff
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                        GhostPhil said:
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                        It was more of a joke with
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                        because of the disscussion on the High Life thread, but I agree I wouldn't let her come near me at all! I mean who even produces such enormous strapons? :coldsweat:
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                     Thanks buddy for the elephant's trunk stapon.
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                        maybe something like that ? :angel:
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                         View attachment 173661
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                     Thanks pal for the chainsaw strapon.
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                     My dear friends, I really appreciate your attentions x'DXD
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                        Furuichi Imadori said:
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                        Thanks buddy for the elephant's trunk stapon.
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                        Thanks pal for the chainsaw strapon.
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                        My dear friends, I really appreciate your attentions x'DXD
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                     No problem, but mine is a horse strapon
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     <br/>
                     So what did you want to talk about Ele?
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                        My dear friends, I really appreciate your attentions x'DXD
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                     Your dear to us
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                     BDSM is great as a whole, there's specifics which don't do much for me, but overall it's great.
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                     But when it comes to games... Egh. Haven't found a game around bdsm that really does it for me. Some will have bondage, but don't have the D/s, others have S/M but lack in the other departments, so yeah... I think games are kinda behind on it, and the ones that do manage to have some acceptable levels of BDSM only have them as side components to the main story. Disappointing tbh, but oh well.
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                        BDSM is great as a whole, there's specifics which don't do much for me, but overall it's great.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        But when it comes to games... Egh. Haven't found a game around bdsm that really does it for me. Some will have bondage, but don't have the D/s, others have S/M but lack in the other departments, so yeah... I think games are kinda behind on it, and the ones that do manage to have some acceptable levels of BDSM only have them as side components to the main story. Disappointing tbh, but oh well.
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                     I can only agree with you! There isn't a single BDSM game that does this fetish justice! There are some games that have really really small parts of it and do them more or less good. But what most of them don't do, is refering to SSC (safe sane and consensual).
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                         <img alt=":devilish:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite695" data-shortname=":devilish:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Devil    :devilish:"/>
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Furuichi Imadori · Nov 6, 2018 at 12:16 AM" data-lb-id="post-1253050">
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                        GhostPhil said:
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                        No problem, but mine is a horse strapon
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        So what did you want to talk about Ele?
                        <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                     Gosh, I'm not a connoisseur in the strapon category. Eleanor my Dominatrix Angel :angel: I made a mistake, please punish me :evilsmile:!
                     <br/>
                     Eleanor, don't go near
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="864210" data-username="@GhostPhil" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/864210/">
                      @GhostPhil
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                     , he wants to make you some disgusting things on a mattress, tell him you're not interested, ok sweetie?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Tell him to play with his new toy.
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                        Your dear to us
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                     Your Christmas present in advance.
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                     In a game thread somewhere — I don't remember which one — I was actually wondering if one of the reasons we don't see more BDSM and kink in games is because DAZ, etc. is unsuitable for representing a lot of it.
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                     There are certain things that can be shown pretty easily...fetish wear, bondage/restraint (at least in theory; more often than not, it's very poorly done...something like sagging/loose shibari achieves the opposite of the effect it's going for), watersports, gags/plugs/insertions of all types, clamps/clips...basically, anything static.
                     <br/>
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                     Power exchange is hard because it has to be carried by the text, which takes away the advantage that visual representation usually has. You can show someone kneeling, bowing their head, looking down, towering over, raising an arm, putting a foot on a neck, choking, etc., but you can't really get at the more important emotional side of it without the text. Or, at least, almost no one's done so successfully.
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                     But it's anything involving motion where the art almost always fails. I've yet to see a convincing spanking scene, even though I've seen a lot of them. Other flavors of impact play are incredibly rare, and I've never seen them done well. Part of that is because the animations are arduous and still end up looking unrealistic, and part of that is because you so rarely see the results; if, in scene 2a, the MC uses a cane on someone's ass, then in scene 2a and 2b there should be marks. There never are. A few games have attempted a post-spanking red glow, but that never lasts either. I understand the difficulty this causes if the dev wants to offer the player an opportunity to skip the caning, or spanking, or whatever, but I'm really surprised that some kinky dev hasn't gone ahead and written a forced BDSM VN in which all the real-world effects are included.
                     <br/>
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                     I also think the facial expression options might be insufficient. The sort of humilition/domination/pain/pleasure/pleasure-from-pain subtleties don't usually come across, or at least I haven't seen them done well yet.
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                     Weirdly, I think BDSM in general is depicted much better in comics...perhaps because there are line-drawing techniques for indicating motion and facial subtleties are easier to manipulate. Which makes me think that a game using that art style (like GGGB) would actually have an easier time depicting BDSM than a game using DAZ.
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                     Idle musing, and I can't prove any of it, but it's interesting to think about.
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                        Gosh, I'm not a connoisseur in the strapon category. Eleanor my Dominatrix Angel :angel: I made a mistake, please punish me :evilsmile:!
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                        Eleanor, don't go near
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                        , he wants to make you some disgusting things on a mattress, tell him you're not interested, ok sweetie?
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                        Tell him to play with his new toy.
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                     Well she definitely has a third leg x'Dx'D
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                     And I let Ele be a dominatrix by my side :biggrin:
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                        Segnbora said:
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                        In a game thread somewhere — I don't remember which one — I was actually wondering if one of the reasons we don't see more BDSM and kink in games is because DAZ, etc. is unsuitable for representing a lot of it.
                        <br/>
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                        There are certain things that can be shown pretty easily...fetish wear, bondage/restraint (at least in theory; more often than not, it's very poorly done...something like sagging/loose shibari achieves the opposite of the effect it's going for), watersports, gags/plugs/insertions of all types, clamps/clips...basically, anything static.
                        <br/>
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                        Power exchange is hard because it has to be carried by the text, which takes away the advantage that visual representation usually has. You can show someone kneeling, bowing their head, looking down, towering over, raising an arm, putting a foot on a neck, choking, etc., but you can't really get at the equally important emotional side of it without the text. Or, at lest, almost no one's done so successfully.
                        <br/>
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                        But it's anything involving motion where the art almost always fails. I've yet to see a convincing spanking scene, even though I've seen a lot of them. Other flavors of impact play are rare, and I've never seen them done well. Part of that is because the animations are arduous and still end up looking unrealistic, and part of that is because you so rarely see the results; if, in scene 2a, the MC uses a cane on someone's ass, then in scene 2a and 2b there should be marks. There never are. I understand the difficulty this causes if the dev wants to offer the player an opportunity to skip the caning, but I'm really surprised that some kinky dev hasn't gone ahead and written a forced BDSM VN in which all the real-world effects are included.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I also think the facial expression options might be insufficient. The sort of humilition/domination/pain/pleasure/pleasure-from-pain subtleties don't usually come across, or at least I haven't seen them done well yet.
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                        Weirdly, I think BDSM in general is depicted much better in comics...perhaps because there are line-drawing techniques for indicating motion and facial subtleties are easier to manipulate. Which makes me think that a game using that art style (like GGGB) would actually have an easier time depicting BDSM than a game using DAZ.
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                        Idle musing, and I can't prove any of it, but it's interesting to think about.
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                     I really want to answer this right now, but sadly I don't have the time now :'(
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                        Your Christmas present in advance.
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                     Thanks I'm ready
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                        Thanks I'm ready
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                     Don't worry, it was for your big mouth
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                        Don't worry, it was for your big mouth
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                     No, I'm ready
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                     Voted for 3rd option, although I'll admit I've never tried most of the stuff BDSM practitioners do. I don't like... stuff. Special clothing, gadgets, food... Just bodies. I don't like causing pain or pain being caused either. At least to people I care about. If I were into BDSM I'd definitely be a switch. I think I'd find permanent roles boring. I like both, maledom and femdom and I wish more games had the latter. The fact that I like femdom (and actually prefer it), came as a surprise to me.
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                        I really want to answer this right now, but sadly I don't have the time now :'(
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                     Well, when you have time I'd be interested.
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                     A new appreciation thread has risen from the ashes!
                     <br/>
                     This time it isn't about character types, it is rather about scenes in adult games.
                     <br/>
                     This specially is about extreme/ hardcore fetishes in games, so beware of content like urination, etc...
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                          https://f95zone.com/threads/extreme...eciation-thread-beware-extreme-content.20210/
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                     <br/>
                     I bet there will be more threads to follow. I have some in mind as well
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                     In some cases, I could see the desire to hurt someone (even to the point that it may be arousing), however I have real difficulty with the consentual part of BDSM. The BDSM being consentual implies that the dom really has to hold back and that the sub is actually in control, in a way. At least that's my understanding how it works. I have no experience with it myself, but what I've seen, it seems rather weak.
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                     I could, theoretically, see a game about really brutal stuff. Like body modification, amputation and snuff. This may be very distasteful, but at least in a game no real person gets hurt and you are still able to experiment somewhat. However I really doubt that I would actually play such a game though.
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                        In a game thread somewhere — I don't remember which one — I was actually wondering if one of the reasons we don't see more BDSM and kink in games is because DAZ, etc. is unsuitable for representing a lot of it.
                        <br/>
                        That might be a reason, but on the other hand I think it is only limited by the assets that are made by someone. I mean on Renderotica is quite a lot of BDSM themed stuff, but I never really see it in games, only in 3DCG Comics. So the possibilities are there, but not used.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        There are certain things that can be shown pretty easily...fetish wear, bondage/restraint (at least in theory; more often than not, it's very poorly done...something like sagging/loose shibari achieves the opposite of the effect it's going for), watersports, gags/plugs/insertions of all types, clamps/clips...basically, anything static.
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                     I agree with you, but as I said above. There are acutally some things available, but they aren't really used. But on the other hand there are so many more BDSM tools out there...
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                        Power exchange is hard because it has to be carried by the text, which takes away the advantage that visual representation usually has. You can show someone kneeling, bowing their head, looking down, towering over, raising an arm, putting a foot on a neck, choking, etc., but you can't really get at the more important emotional side of it without the text. Or, at least, almost no one's done so successfully.
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                     Well you can actually use text with some static pictures quite well, the problem is that the text needs to be written really good so you can feel the power exchange in the scene. But there are some games that do this on a more vanilla level quite good. But I have to say that it is easier to show this with text only than with a mix of both.
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                        But it's anything involving motion where the art almost always fails. I've yet to see a convincing spanking scene, even though I've seen a lot of them. Other flavors of impact play are incredibly rare, and I've never seen them done well. Part of that is because the animations are arduous and still end up looking unrealistic, and part of that is because you so rarely see the results; if, in scene 2a, the MC uses a cane on someone's ass, then in scene 2a and 2b there should be marks. There never are. A few games have attempted a post-spanking red glow, but that never lasts either. I understand the difficulty this causes if the dev wants to offer the player an opportunity to skip the caning, or spanking, or whatever, but I'm really surprised that some kinky dev hasn't gone ahead and written a forced BDSM VN in which all the real-world effects are included.
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                     Yeah the spanking scenes are a joke. Always really fast and you don't see the ass getting red. It doesn't even need to be animated, but it should show at least something... And I don't even talk about something like caning...
                     <br/>
                     Well I am at least thinking about doing a game solely focused on BDSM, but well first I have to learn using Daz Studio and Ren'Py
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                     But you can look at my thread that is linked in my signature
                     <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                        I also think the facial expression options might be insufficient. The sort of humilition/domination/pain/pleasure/pleasure-from-pain subtleties don't usually come across, or at least I haven't seen them done well yet.
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                     I have to say there are really a lot of facial expressions out there, especially on Renderotica. The problem is that they aren't used properly...
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                        Weirdly, I think BDSM in general is depicted much better in comics...perhaps because there are line-drawing techniques for indicating motion and facial subtleties are easier to manipulate. Which makes me think that a game using that art style (like GGGB) would actually have an easier time depicting BDSM than a game using DAZ.
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                        Idle musing, and I can't prove any of it, but it's interesting to think about.
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                     Do you know the Comic Sunstone? That Comic pictures BDSM really really good in my opinion. And it has incredible facial expressions. And I have to say I would love to see a Visual Novel by that Comic Artist
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                        In some cases, I could see the desire to hurt someone (even to the point that it may be arousing), however I have real difficulty with the consentual part of BDSM. The BDSM being consentual implies that the dom really has to hold back and that the sub is actually in control, in a way. At least that's my understanding how it works. I have no experience with it myself, but what I've seen, it seems rather weak.
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                     Well the safe, sane and consentual part is a really important part of BDSM. I mean if you do something to another person without their consent, then it is simply rape. Of course there are relationships out there, where the sub gives away the right to say the safeword, but if something happens, you have a really really big problem with the law.
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                        Well the safe, sane and consentual part is a really important part of BDSM. I mean if you do something to another person without their consent, then it is simply rape. Of course there are relationships out there, where the sub gives away the right to say the safeword, but if something happens, you have a really really big problem with the law.
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                     Yes, that is what I have a problem understanding.
                     <br/>
                     I guess that it is a rather difficult balance between fulfilling a fantasy and doing so in a safe way.
                     <br/>
                     The "safe way" is what I have problems with.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Similarly, I have a problem with boxing as a form of self-defence, because the gloves, which are needed to keep things more or less safe, dictate a lot of the techniques. So, while I understand that a person likes boxing as a sport, but I don't understand that somebody learns boxing to know how to fight or how to defend himself.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But the analogue goes wrong, as BDSM is not a sport, but rather a fulfillment of a certain power fantasy.
                     <br/>
                     On the other hand, being on the receiving end of a real rapist / murderer is not fun at all, so there must be rules and safewords etc.
                     <br/>
                     It's a very complicated subject for me...
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                     Yeah it definitely is no easy subject. But a BDSM relationship shouldn't only be fun for one part, but rather both parts.
                     <br/>
                     So the dominant part can only go as far as the submissiv part can "handle" it. That's why it is a good idea to make some kind of list for the hard limits of the sub. And that's also a reason why there are safewords or even slowwords. (like the traffic light colors).
                     <br/>
                     It is kind of difficult to explain, even more for me, because I have my problems with saying it in English.
                     <br/>
                     I can just suggest to search for it through Google, because there are a lot of good side about that subject
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                     In many ways real life BDSM is in itself a sort of game or at least roleplay. BDSM is consentual, but the people involved often play with non-consentual scenarios, such as slavery or imprisonment. This may be the reason is rarely used in games: The developers of games rather lets the player imprison or enslave characters rather than play prison or slavery with them. In many cases I can understand that quite well. An evil overlord abducting the princess is usually more appaeling as a protagonist than John McAverage playing evil overlord and princess with his wife.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I can think of scenarios where the BDSM theme work, such as with the secretly submissive powerful woman, where consent is a necessary factor.
                     <br/>
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                     Another possible scenario would be a relationship where BDSM kind of runs out of control and takes over aspects of daily life outside the bedroom. I don't know how often this happens in real life, but I could easily imagine that it does, considering the space you need for some of the toys. I always wonder, how BDSM couples with kids hide their equiment from the children's curious eyes.
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                        In many ways real life BDSM is in itself a sort of game or at least roleplay. BDSM is consentual, but the people involved often play with non-consentual scenarios, such as slavery or imprisonment. This may be the reason is rarely used in games: The developers of games rather lets the player imprison or enslave characters rather than play prison or slavery with them. In many cases I can understand that quite well. An evil overlord abducting the princess is usually more appaeling as a protagonist than John McAverage playing evil overlord and princess with his wife.
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                     Well in games you also want to live your fantasies, so rather than doing a rape-play game you would play a rape game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I have the feeling that I should search for a good definition for BDSM and post it on the first thread
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                        Another possible scenario would be a relationship where BDSM kind of runs out of control and takes over aspects of daily life outside the bedroom. I don't know how often this happens in real life, but I could easily imagine that it does, considering the space you need for some of the toys. I always wonder, how BDSM couples with kids hide their equiment from the children's curious eyes.
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                     Well a relationship that takes over the daily life is called 24/7.
                     <br/>
                     Well that theme with the kids is an interesstimg theme, but could also be made into a really funny story :biggrin:
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                        In some cases, I could see the desire to hurt someone (even to the point that it may be arousing), however I have real difficulty with the consentual part of BDSM. The BDSM being consentual implies that the dom really has to hold back and that the sub is actually in control, in a way. At least that's my understanding how it works.
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                     Well, first of all, despite the acronym BDSM/kink doesn't require dom/sub roles or power exchange of any kind, nor does it necessarily involve pain. Those are major areas of interest, sure, but they're not essential.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     With regard to DS roles...I've come to believe that most people naturally gravitate towards one or the other, and I can usually guess correctly after observing/talking with someone for a while, but that's very far from saying that they want to actually inhabit one of the roles (sexually or otherwise), nor does it mean that even if they
                     <i>
                      do
                     </i>
                     want to explore power exchange, that they want to play as their natural proclivity. I know plenty of doms and subs who prefer to play as switches, in or out of their primary relationships. And, for what it's worth, I think most of the best doms and subs have at least tried to experience the opposite role. Knowing what it's like to submit makes one a better dom; knowing what it's like to dominate makes one a better sub.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     What you're describing has a name ("topping from the bottom"), and while I'm not going to say it never works, I'm going to suggest it usually doesn't unless the power exchange is purely for fun. An
                     <i>
                      actual
                     </i>
                     sub or dom isn't just goofing around; their role is an essential part of their character. A sub can't actually submit if they're Cyrano-ing their way through a scene. All that negotiating has to happen in advance. If it doesn't, they're not going to be able to enter the mental/emotional/submissive space they want to enter.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A dom doesn't have to "hold back"; what they have to do is respect the prearranged limits. Some people legitimately like, need, or even get off in response to pain, and in a consensual and well-negotiated setting there's nothing wrong and everything right with giving them what they want. (That said, a fair number of subs who ask for painful things to be done to them aren't in it for the pain as such, they're in it for the release that comes with the infliction or cessation of pain. The first sub I was ever close to was up for pretty much anything, no matter how extreme, as long as it ended up with her losing control and bursting into tears...at which point the scene was over for her because she'd gotten what she needed out of it.) Likewise, there are doms who enjoy inflicting pain (and one hopes they're with subs that enjoy receiving it), but I think it's even more common that the emotional state for which they're striving isn't necessarily causing pain as an end in itself, but rather as a means to a clear and much-desired power imbalance. Ideally, people who not only want, but
                     <i>
                      need
                     </i>
                     one of those states gravitate towards someone who wants/needs the opposite and knows how to respect limits.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Just to give an example: I enjoy (giving) what might be termed light impact play. Spanking, flogging, maybe a belt if everyone's feeling frisky and doesn't mind some marks. Add restriction implements (e.g. clamps) and my own personal enjoyment ends there. However, if my partner wants more severe impact play (switches, canes, crops, tawses, etc. ... I'm not trained with whips and thus won't touch them), I'll happily do it for them, up until one of my own limits (no blood) is reached. If they need/want something harder, they need to find someone else.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There's a lot more talk about consent in BDSM than there is in the "vanilla" sexual world, and the latter would be greatly improved if it took a cue from the former. Of course, consent violations still happen in BDSM/kink settings, and given some of the possible activities they can be pretty ugly when they do. That said, a lot of BDSM is conducted/talked about in a fairly public way (albeit within the relatively small community), and serial consent violators rarely get away with it for very long. Especially these days.
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                        Well I am at least thinking about doing a game solely focused on BDSM, but well first I have to learn using Daz Studio and Ren'Py
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                        But you can look at my thread that is linked in my signature
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                     I wish you luck, and will look forward to it!
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                        Do you know the Comic Sunstone?
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                     I do, of course.
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                        Similarly, I have a problem with boxing as a form of self-defence, because the gloves, which are needed to keep things more or less safe, dictate a lot of the techniques. So, while I understand that a person likes boxing as a sport, but I don't understand that somebody learns boxing to know how to fight or how to defend himself.
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                     Well, I don't want to derail the thread, but I suspect that the analogy is really not there (or maybe parts of it do apply and that's why I'm explaining it). The reasons why boxing is great for self-defense are many.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - the gloves are there for you to make sure you can train harder and longer and therefor becoming better when needed. Do heavy bag training sessions without gloves and you will be injured more often than not, it's a recipe for disaster.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - while there are differences between boxing with gloves and boxing without, they are affected more by the rules/referee than the actual gloves. Example would be uppercut. In boxing we know what that means, close and straight up. Without gloves it's much easier to miss and if you do miss, you can't just hug the opponent and wait for the ref to separate you. You will get headbutted and knee to your balls instead. So without gloves (or even with MMA gloves/kickboxing), the uppercut is instead slightly forward and from the side. It's a very similar effect, but much better suited. It's not hard for a trained boxer to adjust to that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - Boxing training will improve your coordination, movement (looking for angles), punch strength/accuracy/timing, stamina, all which will prove extremely valuable when faced with real danger. It will also train your muscle memory, which is insanely important. Most people think they could fight when needed, but when they start punching a target for the first time, they realize they are missing everything, especially with the weaker hand. If you figure that out during a training, it's going to cost you much less than if you figure it out when you need to protect yourself or your family.
                     <br/>
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                     - Getting punched or even seeing someone trying to punch you for the first time (or even 100th time) is terrifying and most people will freeze and act completely irrationally. There is only one way you can get rid of that fear and that's sparring, you actually need to get hit. There's no other way.
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                        The first sub I was ever close to was up for pretty much anything, no matter how extreme, as long as it ended up with her losing control and bursting into tears...at which point the scene was over for her because she'd gotten what she needed out of it.) Likewise, there are doms who enjoy inflicting pain (and one hopes they're with subs that enjoy receiving it), but I think it's even more common that the emotional state for which they're striving isn't necessarily causing pain as an end in itself, but rather as a means to a clear and much-desired power imbalance. Ideally, people who not only want, but
                        <i>
                         need
                        </i>
                        one of those states gravitate towards someone who wants/needs the opposite and knows how to respect limits.
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                     Could you expand a bit on these points, both sides? What was it exactly that sub needed and why is the loss control felt only at the end? I would've felt loss of control the moment bad things start happening to me. And the dom part, are you saying that most doms are not very confident and want control they don't have in life? There are some posts in this thread that suggest the opposite so I find it interesting.
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                        Well, first of all, despite the acronym BDSM/kink doesn't require dom/sub roles or power exchange of any kind, nor does it necessarily involve pain. Those are major areas of interest, sure, but they're not essential.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        With regard to DS roles...I've come to believe that most people naturally gravitate towards one or the other, and I can usually guess correctly after observing/talking with someone for a while, but that's very far from saying that they want to actually inhabit one of the roles (sexually or otherwise), nor does it mean that even if they
                        <i>
                         do
                        </i>
                        want to explore power exchange,that they want to play as their natural proclivity. I know plenty of doms and subs who prefer to play as switches, in or out of their primary relationships. And, for what it's worth, I think most of the best doms and subs have at least tried to experience the opposite role. Knowing what it's like to submit makes one a better dom; knowing what it's like to dominate makes one a better sub.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        What you're describing has a name ("topping from the bottom"), and while I'm not going to say it never works, I'm going to suggest it usually doesn't unless the power exchange is purely for fun. An
                        <i>
                         actual
                        </i>
                        sub or dom isn't just goofing around; their role is an essential part of their character. A sub can't actually submit if they're Cyrano-ing their way through a scene. All that negotiating has to happen in advance. If it doesn't, they're not going to be able to enter the mental/emotional/submissive space they want to enter.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        A dom doesn't have to "hold back"; what they have to do is respect the prearranged limits. Some people legitimately like, need, or even get off in response to pain, and in a consensual and well-negotiated setting there's nothing wrong and everything right with giving them what they want. (That said, a fair number of subs who ask for painful things to be done to them aren't in it for the pain as such, they're in it for the release that comes with the infliction or cessation of pain. The first sub I was ever close to was up for pretty much anything, no matter how extreme, as long as it ended up with her losing control and bursting into tears...at which point the scene was over for her because she'd gotten what she needed out of it.) Likewise, there are doms who enjoy inflicting pain (and one hopes they're with subs that enjoy receiving it), but I think it's even more common that the emotional state for which they're striving isn't necessarily causing pain as an end in itself, but rather as a means to a clear and much-desired power imbalance. Ideally, people who not only want, but
                        <i>
                         need
                        </i>
                        one of those states gravitate towards someone who wants/needs the opposite and knows how to respect limits.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Just to give an example: I enjoy (giving) what might be termed light impact play. Spanking, flogging, maybe a belt if everyone's feeling frisky and doesn't mind some marks. Add restriction implements (e.g. clamps) and my own personal enjoyment ends there. However, if my partner wants more severe impact play (switches, canes, crops, tawses, etc. ... I'm not trained with whips and thus won't touch them), I'll happily do it for them, up until one of my own limits (no blood) is reached. If they need/want something harder, they need to find someone else.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        There's a lot more talk about consent in BDSM than there is in the "vanilla" sexual world, and the latter would be greatly improved if it took a cue from the former. Of course, consent violations still happen in BDSM/kink settings, and given some of the possible activities they can be pretty ugly when they do. That said, a lot of BDSM is conducted/talked about in a fairly public way (albeit within the relatively small community), and serial consent violators rarely get away with it for very long. Especially these days.
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                     Thanks for clarifying it more
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     It is nice to see someone with more real life experience. Sadly I can't relate too much with it as most of my kinks are pure fantasy. I only experienced "light BDSM" and the relationship didn't hold long. After this I went to a "BDSM group of regulars for younger people". But as I am pretty shy, I couldn't experience more, although talking with people there was really fun.
                     <br/>
                     I would also see me more as a Switch, because I am interested in both ways, although I might be more interessted in being a Dom.
                     <br/>
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                        Segnbora said:
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                        I wish you luck, and will look forward to it!
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                     Thanks, it will be a long way, but hopefully it is rewarding and hopefully I can picture BDSM in a good way
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                        Segnbora said:
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                        I do, of course.
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                     Well I would actually suggest it to BDSM newcomer
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                     It is just really beautiful in picturing BDSM relationships with its ups and downs
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Segnbora · Nov 7, 2018 at 9:54 PM" data-lb-id="post-1259006">
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                        trdx said:
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                        Could you expand a bit on these points, both sides? What was it exactly that sub needed and why is the loss control felt only at the end?
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                     What this particular sub wanted and needed (and FWIW, it's a pretty common want/need among subs) was a total emotional release. All the steps to get there...restraints, caging, humiliation, various types of painful impact play, edging, denial, etc....were things she enjoyed or didn't, depending on their exact nature and who else was involved. But it was the point where, after minutes/hours/days of those things, she finally couldn't hold herself together anymore and had something that would have looked, to someone not involved in the scene or in getting her to that point, like a complete emotional breakdown. Hysterical sobbing, drool, orgasms, snot...you know, imagine your own visuals here...but it was the point where any semblance of control, even over her own body and mind, was not only fading, but
                     <i>
                      gone
                     </i>
                     . At that exact moment, all the stuff she was holding on to or trying to manage — problems at work, problems with her boyfriend, problems with her parents or her sister, problems with her car, whatever — came flooding out at the very same time, because she no longer possessed the ability to control them or herself. She would never, ever cry or show weakness in front of a boss or a coworker. She would patiently work to find any compromise that would placate her mom and keep their relationship as happy as possible. But there, at the end of a BDSM scene that was all about someone else taking any semblance of control or autonomy away from her...not just external, but (and more important) internal...she could let it all go.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     (Obviously, she had safe words and thus ultimate autonomy should she not be feeling right about something.)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And then, after it was all over and the proper aftercare and so forth was provided, she was not only incredibly happy, but a much, much more emotionally balanced, stable, and strong person than she'd been before the d/s scene started.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Analogies are hard, because while these are fairly common needs BDSM/kink is a very specific and focused way of exploring them, but think about a time when you were unmanageably sad. Maybe someone close to you died unexpectedly, but you felt like you had to be strong for a friend, or a family member, and spent some amount of time focusing on caring for them. And then, one night, alone in a room, you just broke down and started crying...something you'd wanted and needed to do all along, but "couldn't" because you were being strong for someone else. So you cried, you let it all out, you allowed yourself to stop being strong, and after it was over you felt a sense of relief that you didn't have to hold that grief in anymore. That's, at least a little bit, the same sort of thing.
                     <br/>
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                        And the dom part, are you saying that most doms are not very confident and want control they don't have in life?
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                     I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. No, I'm saying the complete opposite. A dominant enjoys experiences a lot more if they're in control. True dominants
                     <i>
                      need
                     </i>
                     to exert control, and in fact (though I don't have a survey to point to), it's my experience that true dominants have more difficulty "turning it off" in everyday life than true submissives, who can often compartmentalize that need. A true dominant is confident and prefers to exert control pretty much 24/7, and as a group they're outwardly
                     <i>
                      very
                     </i>
                     confident people; expressing doubts isn't something that interests most doms
                     <i>
                      unless
                     </i>
                     they're in a deep, trusting relationship with a sub, in which case it might happen there. But only in private, and never within the context of a power exchange situation (sexual or otherwise). Expressing doubts to a sub in the context of inhabiting their respective roles is a good way to damage a sub's trust in the dom, which is more or less the foundation of their relationship.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There are, of course, some "doms" who are as you describe, and they're not only not really dominant, they're the kind that end up making mistakes that can hurt people. "Hey, look at me, I'm using a flogger!" is only a little bit about flogging someone, but a
                     <i>
                      lot
                     </i>
                     about an ongoing wordless conversation between the wielder and the recipient in which "softer/harder/more/stop" has to be communicated by the recipient and read/heard by the wielder from visual and audible clues that would be opaque to someone who can only feel the leather in their hand and see the reddened flesh in front of them. Without that wordless communication, there's probably no power exchange going on, and so it's not dominance/submission, it's just flogging for the sake of flogging. There's nothing wrong with that, but trying to "play at" dominance and submission in such situations is often asking for trouble.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I think you might be confusing people who need to be in their roles 24/7 with people for whom the contrast is the thing they crave. One of my recent partners is a very, very powerful executive for a major tech company. She's a brilliant speaker, holds the attention of any room, and extremely successful. She's bossy, argumentative, critical, and stubborn (I mostly mean those as compliments, BTW). But in bed, she's a natural submissive...something she didn't know until I started exploring it with her. There are a lot of people exactly like her, and they come in all genders; any professional dominatrix could tell you that the majority of her clients are lawyers, politicians, doctors, and high-powered executives.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The friend that I was describing above is a very strong woman in everyday life, and very difficult to push around. Submission, for her, was partly a reaction to that; if she was with people she knew she could trust to prioritize her wellbeing, she would explore the submission and release with them that she wouldn't allow herself to experience outside those trusted relationships. For myself, as a non-24/7 dominant who prefers to restrict that role to the bedroom (metaphorically, I mean), there's great appeal in someone like that. Folks in a master/slave or 24/7 relationship want and need someone to be making all the decisions, all the time. That works for them, but it bores me to tears. But having someone who's at least my equal in all other situations submit to me in specific (emotional/sexual) moments is something I've learned that I really, really enjoy.
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                        Well in games you also want to live your fantasies, so rather than doing a rape-play game you would play a rape game.
                        <br/>
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                        I have the feeling that I should search for a good definition for BDSM and post it on the first thread
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                        Well a relationship that takes over the daily life is called 24/7.
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                        Well that theme with the kids is an interesstimg theme, but could also be made into a really funny story :biggrin:
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                     I think many games are somewhat between consentual and non-consentual scenarios. In most corruption or "trainer" games, women are coerced into a submissive relationship but later enjoy it for some reason.
                     <br/>
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                     Naturally, I game about consentual BDSM would be slower paced than a typical corruption games. Convincing a woman to submit takes more effort than blackmailing her or using a mind control spell on her, especially if she is not openly submissive.
                     <br/>
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                     A son or daughter finding out about the parents' passion for BDSM might indeed make a good starting point for a game. In real life though, I think, if your BDSM kink ever leaves the bedroom, it will be harmful for small children and at least extremely embarassing for adult children. No child should ever see dad putting a leash around mom's neck or hear mom call dad "master".
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                        I think many games are somewhat between consentual and non-consentual scenarios. In most corruption or "trainer" games, women are coerced into a submissive relationship but later enjoy it for some reason.
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                     I agree! It's like they want to show the fantasy of non-consentual sex, but don't want to go too far.
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                        Naturally, I game about consentual BDSM would be slower paced than a typical corruption games. Convincing a woman to submit takes more effort than blackmailing her or using a mind control spell on her, especially if she is not openly submissive.
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                     Well you could speed it up a bit, if the woman is more experienced in the whole BDSM theme, but the trust is something that has to be build
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     Well blackmail, mind controll, etc. are certainly popular.
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                        A son or daughter finding out about the parents' passion for BDSM might indeed make a good starting point for a game. In real life though, I think, if your BDSM kink ever leaves the bedroom, it will be harmful for small children and at least extremely embarassing for adult children. No child should ever see dad putting a leash around mom's neck or hear mom call dad "master".
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                     Yeah in RL I think parents should live this relationship more outside the house xD For me it is already weird enough to know that my parents are watching BDSM themed movies x'D
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="trdx · Nov 9, 2018 at 8:27 AM" data-lb-id="post-1262925">
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                        Segnbora said:
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                        What this particular sub wanted and needed (and FWIW, it's a pretty common want/need among subs) was a total emotional release. All the steps to get there...restraints, caging, humiliation, various types of painful impact play, edging, denial, etc....were things she enjoyed or didn't, depending on their exact nature and who else was involved. But it was the point where, after minutes/hours/days of those things, she finally couldn't hold herself together anymore and had something that would have looked, to someone not involved in the scene or in getting her to that point, like a complete emotional breakdown. Hysterical sobbing, drool, orgasms, snot...you know, imagine your own visuals here...but it was the point where any semblance of control, even over her own body and mind, was not only fading, but
                        <i>
                         gone
                        </i>
                        . At that exact moment, all the stuff she was holding on to or trying to manage — problems at work, problems with her boyfriend, problems with her parents or her sister, problems with her car, whatever — came flooding out at the very same time, because she no longer possessed the ability to control them or herself. She would never, ever cry or show weakness in front of a boss or a coworker. She would patiently work to find any compromise that would placate her mom and keep their relationship as happy as possible. But there, at the end of a BDSM scene that was all about someone else taking any semblance of control or autonomy away from her...not just external, but (and more important) internal...she could let it all go.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        (Obviously, she had safe words and thus ultimate autonomy should she not be feeling right about something.)
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        And then, after it was all over and the proper aftercare and so forth was provided, she was not only incredibly happy, but a much, much more emotionally balanced, stable, and strong person than she'd been before the d/s scene started.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Analogies are hard, because while these are fairly common needs BDSM/kink is a very specific and focused way of exploring them, but think about a time when you were unmanageably sad. Maybe someone close to you died unexpectedly, but you felt like you had to be strong for a friend, or a family member, and spent some amount of time focusing on caring for them. And then, one night, alone in a room, you just broke down and started crying...something you'd wanted and needed to do all along, but "couldn't" because you were being strong for someone else. So you cried, you let it all out, you allowed yourself to stop being strong, and after it was over you felt a sense of relief that you didn't have to hold that grief in anymore. That's, at least a little bit, the same sort of thing.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I'm not sure how you got that from what I wrote. No, I'm saying the complete opposite. A dominant enjoys experiences a lot more if they're in control. True dominants
                        <i>
                         need
                        </i>
                        to exert control, and in fact (though I don't have a survey to point to), it's my experience that true dominants have more difficulty "turning it off" in everyday life than true submissives, who can often compartmentalize that need. A true dominant is confident and prefers to exert control pretty much 24/7, and as a group they're outwardly
                        <i>
                         very
                        </i>
                        confident people; expressing doubts isn't something that interests most doms
                        <i>
                         unless
                        </i>
                        they're in a deep, trusting relationship with a sub, in which case it might happen there. But only in private, and never within the context of a power exchange situation (sexual or otherwise). Expressing doubts to a sub in the context of inhabiting their respective roles is a good way to damage a sub's trust in the dom, which is more or less the foundation of their relationship.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        There are, of course, some "doms" who are as you describe, and they're not only not really dominant, they're the kind that end up making mistakes that can hurt people. "Hey, look at me, I'm using a flogger!" is only a little bit about flogging someone, but a
                        <i>
                         lot
                        </i>
                        about an ongoing wordless conversation between the wielder and the recipient in which "softer/harder/more/stop" has to be communicated by the recipient and read/heard by the wielder from visual and audible clues that would be opaque to someone who can only feel the leather in their hand and see the reddened flesh in front of them. Without that wordless communication, there's probably no power exchange going on, and so it's not dominance/submission, it's just flogging for the sake of flogging. There's nothing wrong with that, but trying to "play at" dominance and submission in such situations is often asking for trouble.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I think you might be confusing people who need to be in their roles 24/7 with people for whom the contrast is the thing they crave. One of my recent partners is a very, very powerful executive for a major tech company. She's a brilliant speaker, holds the attention of any room, and extremely successful. She's bossy, argumentative, critical, and stubborn (I mostly mean those as compliments, BTW). But in bed, she's a natural submissive...something she didn't know until I started exploring it with her. There are a lot of people exactly like her, and they come in all genders; any professional dominatrix could tell you that the majority of her clients are lawyers, politicians, doctors, and high-powered executives.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The friend that I was describing above is a very strong woman in everyday life, and very difficult to push around. Submission, for her, was partly a reaction to that; if she was with people she knew she could trust to prioritize her wellbeing, she would explore the submission and release with them that she wouldn't allow herself to experience outside those trusted relationships. For myself, as a non-24/7 dominant who prefers to restrict that role to the bedroom (metaphorically, I mean), there's great appeal in someone like that. Folks in a master/slave or 24/7 relationship want and need someone to be making all the decisions, all the time. That works for them, but it bores me to tears. But having someone who's at least my equal in all other situations submit to me in specific (emotional/sexual) moments is something I've learned that I really, really enjoy.
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                     </blockquote>
                     Thanks for the detailed explanation, I think I understand it much better now. Well, as much as a non-practitioner could, I guess.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Based on the posts in this thread, I got an impression that BDSM practitioners are more prone to being involved in some kind of an open relationship, sharing partners or just in general involving other people. Would this impression be correct? On average of course, relatively.
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                     I have no real idea if open/poly/swinging relationships are more common in the BDSM/kink community (though I wouldn't be surprised), but I'd have no problem agreeing that they're more openly
                     <i>
                      talked
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                     about in that community. I think that follows from the general ethos of acceptance; someone who likes [unusual thing] is far more likely to be accepting of [another unusual thing] than a random person on the street.
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                     <br/>
                     That said, non-monogamous play relationships are very, very common (but not universal) in the BDSM/kink world. Which makes sense, because there's a pretty big list of kinks that don't actually
                     <i>
                      require
                     </i>
                     a sexual component to be enjoyable for someone who's into them. Whether at parties or in private, a lot of people — freely or selectively — engage in their specific kinks with people who are not their primary partner(s). Micro-communities are pretty common as well, in which a collection of people who share a kink (rope, leather, ballgags, whatever) form sort of an interest group that plays together; some of these including swinging/open/poly play and relationships, some of them don't, and some of them are more complex than that...X and Y are open to sex with anyone, Z will do rope with anyone but only has sex with Q, etc. All that said, play doesn't always mean or lead to sex, even when the kinks (like rope) frequently involve what would otherwise look like sexual contact. As usual, if everything's negotiated in advance and limits are respected, there's a great deal of fun to be had whether or not there's sex involved.
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                     I think, the most problematic part here, is, when partners can't agree where sex starts. Some members of the BDSM community consider kinks rope play or spanking sex, while others don't. So one partner may engage in this kinks with a third person and not consider it cheating, while the other partner sees that quite different.
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                     While I can imagine that happens from time to time, I'll say that no one I know whose relationship involves BDSM or kinks
                     <i>
                      and
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                     who plays with others doesn't talk about that sort of thing, usually in advance and in meticulous detail. I guess if it's true cheating then I
                     <i>
                      wouldn't
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                     know about it, but I try to avoid situations that could turn toxic.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But yes, of course lots of things that go on in BDSM/kink play can be sexualized or not, depending on how everyone involves views them. Spanking's a good example; I know people who are into it because it turns them on (both giving and receiving), I know people who are into it for the punishment aspect, and I know people who are into it for both. And rope is an
                     <i>
                      excellent
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                     example, because there are a huge number of people who are almost exclusively into it for the art/craft/skill/beauty of it, almost to the point where the fact that it's so regularly associated with nudity and sex seems ridiculous, because I don't actually know all that many people who include sex (more specifically, friction-based sex) in their elaborate rope play. That they find it
                     <i>
                      sensual
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                     is pretty common, but I certainly know plenty of people who will let pretty much anyone tie them up (or will tie pretty much anyone up), but who are vastly more selective when it comes to any other sort of play.
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                        There is a BDSM Discussion thread. For not using it, you get punished!
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                     That's a reward, not a punishment
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                        That's a reward, not a punishment
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                     I know that you like to get hit by nettles, so I show you what you could get for being a good minion
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                             Bonds of Trust - A
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          A big thanks to
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                         <span style="color: rgb(243, 121, 52)">
                          Krull
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                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
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                     There are some things that I think about the most and you can see it in my posts
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                              game idea with the focus on a Dom/Sub-relationship
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                          A big thanks to
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                         <span style="color: rgb(243, 121, 52)">
                          Krull
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                         <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                          for the awsome work he does on the fan sigs
                         </span>
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                        I know that you like to get hit by nettles, so I show you what you could get for being a good minion
                        <img alt=";)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite668" data-shortname=";)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Wink    ;)"/>
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                     I prefer hit woman with nettles, and I'm not a minions, I'm an outside contractor in BDSM and nonsense
                     <img alt=":cool:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite672" data-shortname=":cool:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Cool    :cool:"/>
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                        I prefer hit woman with nettles, and I'm not a minions, I'm an outside contractor in BDSM and nonsense
                        <img alt=":cool:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite672" data-shortname=":cool:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Cool    :cool:"/>
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                     Ok so you can be one of my Inquisitors
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                        That's a reward, not a punishment
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                     Is that nettle?? So that's what you keep talking about.....
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                        Is that nettle?? So that's what you keep talking about.....
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                     Hell yeah, nettles play are freaking hot, so sexy
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                        Is that nettle?? So that's what you keep talking about.....
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                        Hell yeah, nettles play are freaking hot, so sexy
                        <img alt="(y)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite688" data-shortname="(y)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Thumbs up    (y)"/>
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                     Yeah Nettle-Play the natural way to punish
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                        Yeah Nettle-Play the natural way to punish
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                     Ecological BDSM, you punish and makes a gesture for the planet  at the same time
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                        Yeah Nettle-Play the natural way to punish
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                        Ecological BDSM, you punish and makes a gesture for the planet  at the same time
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                     Would that be V-BDSM??? (Vegan-BDSM)
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                    Sorry for my English guys... not a native speaker!!!
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                        Would that be V-BDSM??? (Vegan-BDSM)
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                     That one is a sharpshooting hit
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                        That one is a sharpshooting hit
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                        <img alt=":ROFLMAO:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite684" data-shortname=":ROFLMAO:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="ROFL    :ROFLMAO:"/>
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                     I'm learning with the best ones...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But hey.... you guys who are more into this stuff and know where to search for... give us some pics of games with it....(not about the nettles, about the BDSM stuff in general)... this thread is a little needy for them...
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                        Nersão said:
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                        I'm learning with the best ones...
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        But hey.... you guys who are more into this stuff and know where to search for... give us some pics of games with it....(not about the nettles, about the BDSM stuff in general)... this thread is a little needy for them...
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                     That's the sad part. There aren't really that much and when there are mostly show really light BDSM...
                     <img alt=":(" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite669" data-shortname=":(" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Frown    :("/>
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                     Of the games with a stated focus on BDSM, the only Western-style one (I'm no expert on Eastern-style games) that gets it mostly right is
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/deviant-discoveries-v0-35-0-jan-the-spider.1544/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Deviant Discoveries
                     </a>
                     . I say "mostly" because the MC is a monster and very little of what happens is actually consensual; but if you can overlook the fact that the MC should be in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, the activities and roles are not only reasonably well done, but nicely varied. It's also (I think) the only BDSM-focused game in which the author successfully introduces a character who's a true switch, rather than just submissive or dominant.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/harem-hotel-v0-4-3-runey.12760/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Harem Hotel
                     </a>
                     has some reasonably solid kink, though it's mostly optional and I personally wish the dev would push it a little farther. Again, one positive is that not all the NPCs like the same things, nor are they submissive in the same way.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     A game that's not BDSM-focused but manages to introduce it to the story in a realistic way is
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/sisterly-lust-v0-14-1-perverteer.6547/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Sisterly Lust
                     </a>
                     . This is one of the few on the list where there's both maledom and femdom available.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Others that come to mind are
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/the-tyrant-v0-5-5-saddoggames.6025/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      The Tyrant
                     </a>
                     and
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/love-and-submission-v0-07-veqvil.6086/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Love &amp; Submission
                     </a>
                     , though it's been a while since I've played either (I'm staying away until they're closer to completion). I'm probably missing some others, and almost certainly some good femdom games as they're not my thing. I also tend to avoid trainers, so I'm likely unaware of any games in that genre that fit the description.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
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                         As a rule, one of the persistent problems with BDSM in most games (at least for someone who's actually into it) is that it's rarely consensual. The majority of kink/BDSM elements in games are only unlocked via blackmail, mind control, magic, manipulation, and so forth. It's rare that someone comes with dominance or submission, much less a desire for kinkier forms of play/sex, as a natural element of their character. Harem Hotel is a notable exception, so is the mother in Sisterly Lust, and there are two secondary characters in the latter game that are naturally submissve. But, on the other hand, in the same game the submissive sister has to be coerced into it; it's pretty clear that she
                         <i>
                          is
                         </i>
                         submissive, but it's also clear she wouldn't be submitting to her brother — at least not initially — without the coercion.
                        </div>
                       </div>
                      </div>
                     </div>
                     For real-life BDSM fans, this is abhorrent. Corruption is one thing, but outright manipulation crosses the line. It doesn't mean the game can't be enjoyed, but it does require ignoring the reality of what's actually happening.
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                        Segnbora said:
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                        Of the games with a stated focus on BDSM, the only Western-style one (I'm no expert on Eastern-style games) that gets it mostly right is
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/deviant-discoveries-v0-35-0-jan-the-spider.1544/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Deviant Discoveries
                        </a>
                        . I say "mostly" because the MC is a monster and very little of what happens is actually consensual; but if you can overlook the fact that the MC should be in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, the activities and roles are not only reasonably well done, but nicely varied. It's also (I think) the only BDSM-focused game in which the author successfully introduces a character who's a true switch, rather than just submissive or dominant.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/harem-hotel-v0-4-3-runey.12760/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Harem Hotel
                        </a>
                        has some reasonably solid kink, though it's mostly optional and I personally wish the dev would push it a little farther. Again, one positive is that not all the NPCs like the same things, nor are they submissive in the same way.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        A game that's not BDSM-focused but manages to introduce it to the story in a realistic way is
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/sisterly-lust-v0-14-1-perverteer.6547/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Sisterly Lust
                        </a>
                        . This is one of the few on the list where there's both maledom and femdom available.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Others that come to mind are
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/the-tyrant-v0-5-5-saddoggames.6025/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         The Tyrant
                        </a>
                        and
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/love-and-submission-v0-07-veqvil.6086/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Love &amp; Submission
                        </a>
                        , though it's been a while since I've played either (I'm staying away until they're closer to completion). I'm probably missing some others, and almost certainly some good femdom games as they're not my thing. I also tend to avoid trainers, so I'm likely unaware of any games in that genre that fit the description.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
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                            As a rule, one of the persistent problems with BDSM in most games (at least for someone who's actually into it) is that it's rarely consensual. The majority of kink/BDSM elements in games are only unlocked via blackmail, mind control, magic, manipulation, and so forth. It's rare that someone comes with dominance or submission, much less a desire for kinkier forms of play/sex, as a natural element of their character. Harem Hotel is a notable exception, so is the mother in Sisterly Lust, and there are two secondary characters in the latter game that are naturally submissve. But, on the other hand, in the same game the submissive sister has to be coerced into it; it's pretty clear that she
                            <i>
                             is
                            </i>
                            submissive, but it's also clear she wouldn't be submitting to her brother — at least not initially — without the coercion.
                           </div>
                          </div>
                         </div>
                        </div>
                        For real-life BDSM fans, this is abhorrent. Corruption is one thing, but outright manipulation crosses the line. It doesn't mean the game can't be enjoyed, but it does require ignoring the reality of what's actually happening.
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                     Thanks for another quite detailed and long answer in this thread.
                     <br/>
                     I have to agree with the list of game and with the fact that most of them show non consensual relationships. Of course as a game they can work. For example to experience an extreme that you wouldn't even consider in real life.
                     <br/>
                     I don't really get why nobody tried to make a real BDSM game. It just seems like all the developer don't know or understand the meaning of SSC (Safe Sane Consentual).
                     <br/>
                     That's also a reason why I was thinking about such a game myself. It could even play with the borders of SSC and the importance of a Safeword.
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                     There's no reason (thus far; I don't know where the story's headed) that Deviant Discoveries couldn't be a pure BDSM game. Just remove the entire vial conceit. I presume the writer has plans for the mind control/personality adjustment aspects of the game (we've already seen the body modification outcomes, or at least most of them), and so we'll see where they go. But without the vials, and with a little more reluctance from at least some of the NPCs, it could easily be a fully consensual game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You're absolutely right that we enjoy, or maybe put up with, a lot of behaviors in these games that would be grossly unacceptable in real life. So much sexual assault and outright rape, so much nonconsensuality, so much cross-generation incest, etc. It's sorta baked into the genre, or at least it seems to be. With specific regard to BDSM games, though, it's notable and a little depressing that to actually enjoy it in a game it's usually necessary to ignore one of its key tenets.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There
                     <i>
                      has
                     </i>
                     been at least one "real" BDSM game (
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/bondage-island-amaraine.2632/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Bondage Island
                     </a>
                     ), and the others from the same dev (
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/lucretias-legacy-amaraine.4144/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Lucretia's Legacy
                     </a>
                     ,
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/strange-gift-v0-8-amaraine.16998/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      A Strange Gift
                     </a>
                     , and
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/damsels-and-dragons-v1-07-amaraine.7387/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      Damsels &amp; Dragons
                     </a>
                     ) all include significant BDSM elements. The issue with Bondage Island is just that it's not a very good game; it's a badly signposted stat grinder on a clock, the CG isn't great, and once you get into the kink it's extremely limited in scope (both visually and textually; "you tied her up for a while and you both enjoyed it" doesn't really cut it). I don't want to criticize it too much, because I'm convinced the dev is capable of better (and in fact the latest games
                     <i>
                      are
                     </i>
                     somewhat better), but the limitations remain: aimless location-searching, simple single-image BDSM elements, and the same annoying blind stat grind. I think the dev would do much better with a more linear and story-based game...like, say, Deviant Discoveries.
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                     I am currently making a slave trainer game with fem/protag. I released the first version today, maybe you can take a look at it?
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                      https://f95zone.to/threads/slaver-v0-1-meesteres.28351/
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                     . You have a male servant/sex slave but sex scenes with him are optional and I am planning to implement more of a storyline.
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                     hi there,
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     foremost i have to admit i have only read the first and the last side of this thread.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I stumbled upon it as i was about to open a thread with the same topic.
                     <br/>
                     Cos in real life i have had my share in the local bdsm scene. When i see the games that uses this Tag, i normally want to puke.
                     <br/>
                     tbh most of this games evolve around rape and enslavement that is in sync with real bdsm as the poles.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yeah sometimes you do rape-role-plays, but BDSM has absolutely nothing to do with real rape. Or Blackmail into submission.
                     <br/>
                     BDSM is build up but trust not fear. The relationship between Dom and Sub developing over time. U absolutely must trust each other, and even than you have to use save-words, if a play goes to far for one of both. And the other will never ignore a save-word and go on with the play, it would be the sure and definite end of that relationship
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And the diversity of plays in games seems to me totally limited by authors without experience in that regard. It feels like a person how tries to explain how american football is played, but does only knows about soccer. It misses any depth and is mostly an horrifying misconception of the real thing. Exp the scene in MoH where the brother blindfolds the older sister and let have the friend of hers have her way with her... unbelievable bullshit tbh
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     oh of course you can have participate third party people but never without knowing all persons involved. And the most games reduce BDSM to 3 max 4 story parts (Rape, Blindfolding, Punishment, enslavement) and that's mostly bad written and so far from the real thing. There so many posibilities to play as a Dom/sub pair. From candles, toys, dressingcodes, even everday things can become tools to play, but never without consent of both parties. That for me most BDSM games are only Rape games
                     <br/>
                     That's why  i didn't answer the poll before cos the answer i would give isn't present there. No i do not like bdsm games cos they are to simple minded and of off reality that i cant see any relevance to play them
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I was tempted to give an example but first i am no native and so its quite hard to express the development of such kind of relationship exactly and what is more important to me, there wont be a general route to take, we are all individuals and so no relationship is to pin down to a specific way of development. But in one point regarding BDSM relationships i am 100% sure and that is both the dominant and the submissive part are equally and foremost bound to find out the desires and need of each other. A dom how does not care about his/her subs need will never be a good dom, and vice versa.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Just my 2 cent
                     <br/>
                     Greetings Parmenion
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                    My Posts are a product of my perverted mind. Please do not feel offended. I only want to share my thoughts
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                     Oh, yeah, so much yes. Sadly, as talked already most games fail at representing the fetish as participated in the real-world well. That being said, to avoid sone really bad outcomes the SSC part is like a mantra in the real world.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Not so much in games and there are some reasons for it. Main one is that most MCs would have already been kicked out of any BDSM scene I've seen. There are very few, that don't use some form of grooming, blackmail, mind control, drugs or outright rape to have sex with the girls.
                     <br/>
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                     That said, there are as many types of doms as there are subs. I know doms, that would puke at most games here for the consent violations in them. I know subs that would love them. And vise-versa. People are complex beings and those who have explored their sexuality - even more so.
                     <br/>
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                     As a practicing dom, I can only tell you this - I don't think there are games that have represented a dom well. There have been some for subs, but doms are usually outright bad people (most MCs or even some side-characters). But than again, games are limited by a lot of factors.
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                     sure your right, i am dom myself, with some sub phases in the past. But as far as my own knowledge goes i never encountered a sub who seeks outright rape.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Every Dom i talked so far, and my own point of view, as a dom you care about your sub. There are as many forms of Dom as Doms are presented in the scene. I have meet the harsh ones a lot, but nonetheless caring gentle one and a lot in between.
                     <br/>
                     And Subs aren't toys like mostly displayed in these games.
                     <br/>
                     I used role play blackmail myself and it is kinda fun, but its only role play.
                     <br/>
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                     to sum it up the game out there are too black and withe on both sides. Doms are bad or selfish and don't care a shit. Subs are mostly so subs that they would allow everything done to them by everyone. Its ridiculous
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                     50 shades of gray movies definitely didn't help the public perception. I'm shocked if those are really female fantasies.
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                     May 12, 2019
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                     ,oh i've known doms that don't care. They won't admit it in the open, but they do see their subs as toys to be played with. Borrowed toys to be percise with the analogy - there are rules you follow, but they are there for you to play with. And I've known several subs, that do want exactly that. But as I've said - many, many doms and subs out there.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've also found that there are things people perceive differently, based on culture. People are predisposed to see what they expect. And this is where things get murky.
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                     Note for the people not in to BDSM - tis is why sane, safe and consentual is such a big deal in BDSM. What is normal for one may be a huge violation for someone else. It's why you talk, discuss, place boundaries and follow the rules.
                     <br/>
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                     That said, most games lack depth. That's the answer for me, when I think of why most BDSM in them is lacking. Most characters are not well-rounded and imo you can't have a good BDSM game without well written characters.
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                     fuck 50 shades.
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                        50 shades of gray movies definitely didn't help the public perception. I'm shocked if those are really female fantasies.
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                     Believe me. Those ARE female fantasies. I have several friends who are all over for that shit series, and none of them are guys.
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                     By the way, I know it sounds blasphemic, but I'm happy for the success of 50 Shades. Before that BDSM was a much more opressed taboo. As much as I hate both the book, and the movies, they did make BDSM more accepted in the society, and now you aren't considered a freak, if you admit you are into it. At least as a woman you are not, I don't know about guys. Sure, 50 Shades paints a twisted picture about BDSM (I'm convinced the writer never had any personal experience about it before writing the books), basically it shows an abusing relationship, but curiously even as being that, it helped BDSM very much.
                     <br/>
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                     To say something about the original topic, Ladykiller in a Bind has by far the best BDSM representation in a game I've ever played with. MC can have encounters both as sub, and dom, and both are written thoroughly, and they are absolutely consensual (the sub route has blackmail-like tendencies, but it's more of a quid-pro-quo, than actual blackmail). If playing with a lesbian female protagonist, and having solely lesbian encounters isn't problematic for someone, I think it absolutely worth a go. Just as the comic series Sunstone (though the last two books of Sunstone were rather boring). Both are wonderful in their respective type.
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                     tbh i have never read/watched anything of the shades series. And i won't do it in future. As
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                     mentioned before SSC is essential in BDSM. And there are as many fantasies out there as people. I have encountered females fantasies i was not able to fulfill, cos they were against my believes (hitting her with my fist or heavy strangulation as example). And i have had females that dined some of my fantasies. First and foremost it is about communicate your wishes as clear as possible.
                     <br/>
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                     I guess as long as all involved are happy everything is fine and good. And in present days we should accept that we will encounter people with wishes and believes beyond our own imagination. But sometimes i guess as more we advance the more narrow minded a lot of people get.
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                     Why do so many people think of the Dom as badass and the sub as someone with low self esteem and mostly with female subs as whores...
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                     but what me bothers most in these games is that some people think they know what they wirte about. Like some how knows about chess figures thinks  of himself a chess master. To be profund with something you have to gain experience and knowledge. And this doesn't come form reading or imagination, but by doing it. We judge by our own experiences, but that biased
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                        Why do so many people think of the Dom as badass and the sub as someone with low self esteem and mostly with female subs as whores...
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                     I think it comes from the roles during the play. In normal life, to dominate someone, you have to overcome them, therefore you are the winner, the best, and they are the weaker one, the loser. It's simply a matter of associating normal life with sexual one.
                     <br/>
                     Sure, anyone who has a little actual, first-hand experience with BDSM, knows it's not neccesserally that way. Some dominant people LOVE the submissive role in BDSM, and vice versa. I always considered BDSM as a different kind of roleplay. Just as I wouldn't kill a preacher, or stuck-up snob on the city square just because they annoy me (I did several times in Skyrim), I wouldn't be the brainless slave of someone. But it's just a play (a rather exciting one) and has to be treated as such.
                     <br/>
                     It's also true that I knew people who immersed themselves in their BDSM role way more than it's healthy, but I think there isn't anything particularly surprising about it. Just as everything else, BDSM can become an addiction if someone doesn't know how to handle it properly.
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                     the dose does the posion
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                     sidecomment: I used to be a hero till i took an arrow to my knee
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                     i just happend to have a phone conversation on a similar subject. And i know i am no saint, and i don't want to be one either
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                     but i like to keep it in moderate ways. So foremost it is fore me that my sub does not have lasting damage and that includes scars etc. And i am no fan of scat plays either. But i like to expose my sub to some degree, but i won't share her. I like it and find it arousing if strangers watch her, but i would never dare to expose her to an thread that maybe could not handle
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                     I am sworn to carry your burdens...
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                     , you are overanalizing the games. Like, it would be normal to do it to game like Bondage island, but not to most games. That games tries to be a BDSM game (fails at the game part IMO). People write about a lot of shit they don't know. And as I've pointed out, most PCs are NOT suited for doms irl. Thing is, I can say the same for a lot of stuff in games - combat, the world, the characters...  Ether roll with it, or avoid it.
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                        Believe me. Those ARE female fantasies. I have several friends who are all over for that shit series, and none of them are guys.
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                        By the way, I know it sounds blasphemic, but I'm happy for the success of 50 Shades. Before that BDSM was a much more opressed taboo. As much as I hate both the book, and the movies, they did make BDSM more accepted in the society, and now you aren't considered a freak, if you admit you are into it. At least as a woman you are not, I don't know about guys. Sure, 50 Shades paints a twisted picture about BDSM (I'm convinced the writer never had any personal experience about it before writing the books), basically it shows an abusing relationship, but curiously even as being that, it helped BDSM very much.
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                     Yeah, I'm still not convinced those are female fantasies. I am not saying that no woman has fantasies about being in a relationship with a psychotic abuser, I just think they are not very common.
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                     What I think is happening in 50 shades is something completely different. Here's a thought experiment: imagine that everything was the same except that the guy was a poor cook in a fast food restaurant. This would have been one the most criticized movies by the #metoo society we live in. It's precisely the wealth accumulated by the guy that makes this even remotely attractive to women. Every time she has doubts about relationship, she gets a helicopter ride or a flight and it's all amazing again.
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                     Didn't he at one point say something like "I need to be hurting you." Basically admitting that he was addicted to causing pain. I think that this can actually have negative effect on public perception. The way I see it, it confirmed exactly the same stereotypes that were present before. And it might cause some woman to stay in an abusive relationship where she is suffering physically and mentally for way too long. As long as the guy has money, of course.
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                        Yeah, I'm still not convinced those are female fantasies. I am not saying that no woman has fantasies about being in a relationship with a psychotic abuser, I just think they are not very common.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        What I think is happening in 50 shades is something completely different. Here's a thought experiment: imagine that everything was the same except that the guy was a poor cook in a fast food restaurant. This would have been one the most criticized movies by the #metoo society we live in. It's precisely the wealth accumulated by the guy that makes this even remotely attractive to women. Every time she has doubts about relationship, she gets a helicopter ride or a flight and it's all amazing again.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Didn't he at one point say something like "I need to be hurting you." Basically admitting that he was addicted to causing pain. I think that this can actually have negative effect on public perception. The way I see it, it confirmed exactly the same stereotypes that were present before. And it might cause some woman to stay in an abusive relationship where she is suffering physically and mentally for way too long. As long as the guy has money, of course.
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                     Believe me, those ARE female fantasies. The writer is a female, the vast majority of the readers were females, and let's just say the crowd in the movies didn't have many males either. 50 Shades worked for several reasons. And yes, one of them was what you said: powerful, handsome, young rich guy. It's pretty much the same as it is with guys and stupid blonds with balloon tits. Both work on a large part of the population. The thing about 50 Shades, besides of the powerful, handsome, young rich guy thing, it appealed to one another female fantasy. Being dominated. The majority of women has fantasies about being dominated, and always by someone who's appealing to our taste. Being dominated takes a part of guilt away. "I'm a decent woman, I would never be with someone just for sex, I don't want this, I'm just forced to do it". It also comes from a part of the nature I guess, as we are coded to have the strongest possible offspring, and a dominant alpha likely will be able to give that to us. Sure, neither of these work like that in real conditions. Being dominated is fun only as long as it is by someone we would want to be with anyway, and we neither want kids from every sex, nor can an alpha male ensure a strong child. But our subconscious level thinks it this way, that's why 50 Shades became succesful among women who supressed these kinds of sexual fantasies of theirs.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It doesn't make it any less shitty representation of true BDSM though. And as it is an awfully written story with shallow characters, it works only on people who are attracted to Mr. Grey. That's why guys don't like it (they can't symphatize with Mr. Grey, and the female protagonist is boring AF), that's why lesbians don't like it (I don't think it needs an explanation), and that's why many straight women don't like it. But it did bring BDSM to the mainstream culture, so we can thank that for it. Just think about how doms, subs, or the whole culture was represented in mainstream products before. Doms were cold sadists, subs were mindless sextoys, and both were exactly like that in their normal life too. Sure, 50 Shades kinda confirmed the stereotypes about doms, but it also brought BDSM to an everyday level, and it gave platform for a real conversation, that can help making those stereotypes go away. In the end, I believe it did move things into a better direction.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And what you said about abusing relationships... I don't think it changed them in any way. Women stayed in abusive relationships before, and sadly they will for a long time. Those who are afraid to break up, didn't need one more cause to stay (and they won't enjoy it more, because of 50 Shades), and those who stayed not out of fear, but solely for the money also didn't need one more cause, as they considered it a trade-off for wealth.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The only actually bad change it brought is the stance about women of a considerable minority among men. We preached for a long time that abusive relationship is bad, hitting women is bad, and from 50 Shades they felt they got a reassurance that women just say those things, while they actually want to be beaten and abused. I can understand why narrow minded guys think like that, but explaining them why it is false is an impossible task.
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                     To be fair, we have to say, that 50 Shades of Grey got it's share of criticism from feminists and #metoo crowd, just not from regular women, you meet on the street. Same goes for the toothless wannabe vampire saga. Feminists, or 3rd wave feminists or Tumblr feminists to be precise, just don't represent the majority of women in real life, only in certain parts of the internet.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I agree that 50 Shades is a female fantasy. It did not appeal to men at all and there were still enough women who liked it, to make it profitable. Again, same for Twilight.
                     <br/>
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                     Though it appeals to a female fantasy, it doesn't mean, that all the women who enjoyed the books and movies, would enjoy domestic abuse in real life. Erotic fantasies don't translate into reality 1:1. Just think of incest games. Not every guy, who jerks off to incest porn would fuck his mother and sister in real life.
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                     I don't see BDSM in real life as too big of an issue, most of the time, as long as it's completely consensual between all parties involved, that no one actually gets hurt emotionally/mentally, that it's just to spice up one sex life, and that it doesn't go too overboard... I also believe it should be a private affair, and should not be brought out into most public spaces... When you see some folks out there, who are actually completely taking on the roles of actual Master and Slave in every aspect of their daily lives, where the master/dominant shows no empathy, emotion, or remorse at all in anything they say and/or do to the slave/submissive, even in public, that is when I have to draw the line and say hell to the no... Or in cases where the slave/submissive person doesn't fully comprehend that the situation has become more about abuse on the part of the master/dominant, rather then mutual pleasure and respect, again I call bullshit on the whole thing at that point... There is this thing called Stockholm syndrome between an abuser and his/her victims, which just makes you want to string the abuser up by his/her private parts, and beat them with a red hot poker for all eternity (I know that sounds a bit extreme)...
                     <br/>
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                     I don't really care about people having a little mutual fun in the bedroom, but when it goes too far outside and/or beyond that, I just have to say no...
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                     Now, in fantasy,  for me it's just another fetish people have, as long as it isn't taken too far... In which case, I stop reading and/or playing the VN/Game at that point...
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Segnbora · May 14, 2019 at 7:36 AM" data-lb-id="post-1909746">
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                     The objection to
                     <i>
                      50 Shades
                     </i>
                     from actual practitioners of BDSM is that the "dom" is a walking pile of red flags and consent violations in waiting who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a potential sexual partner until he gets some therapy, while the "sub" is a marshmallow-willed, cringing, pathetic non-entity who should be fleeing at top speed from people like Christian Grey. If those people actually existed and got together for kinky fun, someone would get hurt...probably physically
                     <i>
                      and
                     </i>
                     emotionally. The danger isn't that readers/viewers get exposed to edgier sex, it's that everything that makes BDSM workable without everyone involved going to jail is stripped from the narrative.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yeah, play around with a little spanking or handcuffs or whatever. No harm, no foul. But anything more extreme than that...anything requiring actual power exchange, restraints, breath play (which is
                     <i>
                      really dangerous
                     </i>
                     , even if you know what you're doing), serious impact play, etc....is, in
                     <i>
                      50 Shades
                     </i>
                     , bound up with a "powerful, dominant man" fan-fictional fantasy that may or may not be unexpectedly widespread among readers/viewers, but which is absolutely the wrong lens to approach actual BDSM. Or, rather, is the way in which psychopaths and their unwitting victims approach BDSM, with predictable results.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you've never been restrained and want me to tie you up, I will, but we're not doing anything else until you've been untied and we have a chance to discuss how you felt about it. If no one's ever used a flogger (or whatever else) on you, I'll let you try it out at varying levels of force but I'm
                     <i>
                      not
                     </i>
                     tying you up first; I want you to be able to get away as easily as you can say stop or your safe word. I'm certainly not going to drag you down to the Red Room of Pain or whatever that stupid book calls it and jump right to step 31. As a guide to what BDSM is actually like those books are doing a lot of damage. Which isn't surprising, considering it's just
                     <i>
                      Twilight
                     </i>
                     fan-fiction written and then rewritten by someone who once got off to a sparkly vampire fantasy.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Andrash · Aug 31, 2019 at 12:41 AM" data-lb-id="post-2338186">
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                     I'm just dropping this  link here:
                     <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/bdsm-maledom-games-with-bondage-slavery-submission-femdom-male-domination-ball-gag-cuffs-collars-spanking-rope-play-and-torture-devices.30972/">
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                             link
                            </b>
                           </i>
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                     </a>
                     For anyone who's looking for recommendations regarding some BDSM games mostly with
                     <span style="color: rgb(209, 72, 65)">
                      Male Domination
                     </span>
                     tags that I have played... The list is not complete, feel free to suggest me your recommendations...
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                            Best 'BDSM + Maledom' games list
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                     ​
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