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              DAZ3D: denoizer on 4.11 beta
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                     i've downloaded the 4.11 beta and i want try the denoizer option. but at what iteration i've to set it to start? for 550 iteration start at 8 (as default) , 250 (half of iterations) or 499 (for last kick) ???
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                     I'll quote somebody from Daz3D forums.
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                        The way the post Denoiser works is that it takes the in-progress rendering and passes that to the Denoiser, which then displays it. The rendering then continues modifying the in-progress rendering. So if you Denoise an image that had N iterations, you will get the same result, whether or not you have Denoised images with fewer iterations earlier in the render.
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                    Creating custom characters for reasonable price.
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                     ok if is right i've to put at last iteration (499 for 500 iterations) to have an improvement and less iterations to do.
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                        i've downloaded the 4.11 beta and i want try the denoizer option. but at what iteration i've to set it to start? for 550 iteration start at 8 (as default) , 250 (half of iterations) or 499 (for last kick) ???
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                     This is one of the chief limitations of the current denoiser implementation.  There have been many requests over on the Daz side to be able to have the denoiser kick in after a certain percentage of convergence, rather than after a fixed number of iterations, and you don't know in advance how many iterations an image will take to converge.
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                     Right now, it seems most useful if you're intending to have the image stop after a certain number of iterations, rather than after a percentage of convergence, which is how a lot of us currently work.
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                        ok if is right i've to put at last iteration (499 for 500 iterations) to have an improvement and less iterations to do.
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                     I would suggest to keep rendering a little more after using denoiser as it makes the render look more clean than it would when you do it at the last moment
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                     What i mean is that if you want to do 500 iterations, use denoiser at 399 and let 100 iterations run after the denoiser to get a crisp looking render
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                     The number of iterations as much as i have seen depends mostly on the lightning and the size of your render, so after you have decided the number of iterations you think is satisfactory for your render just put denoiser 100 - 200 iterations below your iteration limit
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                        Rich said:
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                        This is one of the chief limitations of the current denoiser implementation. There have been many requests over on the Daz side to be able to have the denoiser kick in after a certain percentage of convergence, rather than after a fixed number of iterations, and you don't know in advance how many iterations an image will take to converge.
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                     Oh yes pleeeease! I want that so bad.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've been using the AI denoiser since the first 4.11 beta build released and did a
                     <u>
                      quick and dirty
                     </u>
                     performance-benchmark on a GTX 1070 a while ago. Note that enabling the AI denoiser requires more VRAM!
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I measured the time for a fixed amount of iterations between:
                     <br/>
                     <ol>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       <span style="color: #00ff00">
                        kicking in the AI denoiser at the
                        <b>
                         <u>
                          first
                         </u>
                        </b>
                        iteration
                       </span>
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ol">
                       <span style="color: #00ff00">
                        kicking in the AI denoiser at the
                        <b>
                         <u>
                          last
                         </u>
                        </b>
                        iteration
                       </span>
                      </li>
                     </ol>
                     The theory is that
                     <span style="color: #00ff00">
                      (2)
                     </span>
                     should be faster since the GPU spends less time with the AI denoising. The scene was set up to render in only a couple of minutes. Just a character in a pinup pose, no background.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I don't have the result-numbers anymore. But
                     <span style="color: #00ff00">
                      (2)
                     </span>
                     was only slightly faster, within margin of error. This needs to be tested on a more complex scene with a longer rendering time, so don't quote me on that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I find it not practical to kick in the AI denoiser late because:
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       the performance impact seems to be minimal
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       kicking in the AI denoiser early allows me to see how good the light is, saves time while creating a scene
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       while rendering I cannot predict the point when the image-quality is good enough and I like to stop the renders manually, yes there is the quality-target option but I never use it because many times I'm busy with other things (RenPy scripts) ... so why stop rendering at this point when I could achieve better quality and stop the rendering manually later when I'm done with whatever I'm doing.
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     my personal conclusion for now, until DAZ Studio has better options:
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       <b>
                        always use "Post Denoiser Start Iteration" = 1
                       </b>
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                         I'm kinda triggered by reading about such low iteration numbers. 500 iterations is GARBAGE image quality NO MATTER WHAT. Even for a
                         <b>
                          very
                         </b>
                         simple scene with direct light this is borderline quality. It is happening ... the AI denoisers will spawn a new wave of low quality CG-renders ... but instead of being grainy, they will now be blurry/smeared or will have certain patterns that look weird. *ugh*
                         <br/>
                         Am I the only one here who internally explodes by reading this? (yes, some kind of OCD confirmed :FeelsBadMan
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                        I'm kinda triggered by reading about such low iteration numbers. 500 iterations is GARBAGE image quality NO MATTER WHAT. Even for a
                        <b>
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                        simple scene with direct light this is borderline quality.
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                     Sorry if it seemed that i am saying to use 500 iterations
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                     took the example of 500 iterations i tried to explain according to that example that you should put denoiser at 399
                     <br/>
                     Sorry if i triggered you but i wasn't telling him to use 500 iterations, it was an example
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                     also my request is an example i allways use more iterations in 4.10 i'm asking for this filter use.
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                        Oh yes pleeeease! I want that so bad.
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                     Actually,
                     <u>
                      my
                     </u>
                     ideal configuration would be the option to "render until you've converged to X%, then stop rendering, run the denoiser, and THEN decide that you're done."
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Caveat: I'm not using the beta, so maybe that's already possible.  But certainly "turn on after N iterations" seems to only be useful if you're rendering to a window and watching it.  Almost all of my rendering is done in batch mode overnight.
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                        I'm kinda triggered by reading about such low iteration numbers. 500 iterations is GARBAGE image quality NO MATTER WHAT. Even for a
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                        simple scene with direct light this is borderline quality. It is happening ... the AI denoisers will spawn a new wave of low quality CG-renders ... but instead of being grainy, they will now be blurry/smeared or will have certain patterns that look weird. *ugh*
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                        Am I the only one here who internally explodes by reading this? (yes, some kind of OCD confirmed :FeelsBadMan
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                     Almost true ... I would not be so categorical about the number of iterations. But it's true that in general 500 it's not good ^^
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                     But for my part I think I will never use denoiser, I tested when they took it out and I didn't like it (or understand..). Maybe it's better now I don't know. I don't really see the point. But maybe I'm too bad to understand (which would not be new ...) ^^
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                     The AI Denoiser works best for me if it kicks in for the last 25 or so iterations. It only takes a few for the denoiser to do it's work
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                        Almost true ... I would not be so categorical about the number of iterations. But it's true that in general 500 it's not good ^^
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                        But for my part I think I will never use denoiser, I tested when they took it out and I didn't like it (or understand..). Maybe it's better now I don't know. I don't really see the point. But maybe I'm too bad to understand (which would not be new ...) ^^
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                     500 is iffy for render quality I at least like 2000 or more iterations on renders
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                     I use the de-noiser in my images, I set it to 500 and it speeds up the render times quite a bit. I use two GTX 1070's and my rtender times average about an hour and a half.
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