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                     am i the only one who hate female protagonist games ...?
                     <br/>
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                     -every time i play a female protagonist game i care about the woman so i try to end the game
                     <br/>
                     without allowing anyone to sleep with her (i don't know why)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - i am the kind of man that like to live in the game and be in the place of protagonist
                     <br/>
                     (that's why i like male protagonist and taking decisions)
                     <br/>
                     and i cannot live in the game if the protagonist is female
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     -i just want to ask you guys am i the only one like that ??
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     -okay i hate NTR (and for some reasons i feel like when i play female protagonist it's the same hate)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     if i play male protagonist game (rape or any time )it's okay with me
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                     but when i try female protagonist i cannot and i don't want her to be fucked by guys
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                     your opinion ??
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                     Well i dont really hate them but i just cant get into them (maybe cause im a guy?) and in the end i just being overprotective without actually enjoy the game.
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                     I think a lot of the game players like to think they are themselves in the game, is an odd thought. More of a guess but is my gut feeling. I myself do not like playing a female character in a game with a lot of battles for some old sexist reason.
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                        am i the only one who hate female protagonist games ...?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        -every time i play a female protagonist game i care about the woman so i try to end the game
                        <br/>
                        without allowing anyone to sleep with her (i don't know why)
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        - i am the kind of man that like to live in the game and be in the place of protagonist
                        <br/>
                        (that's why i like male protagonist and taking decisions)
                        <br/>
                        and i cannot live in the game if the protagonist is female
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                        <br/>
                        -i just want to ask you guys am i the only one like that ??
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        -okay i hate NTR (and for some reasons i feel like when i play female protagonist it's the same hate)
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        if i play male protagonist game (rape or any time )it's okay with me
                        <br/>
                        but when i try female protagonist i cannot and i don't want her to be fucked by guys
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                        <br/>
                        your opinion ??
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                     of course you aren't alone
                     <br/>
                     you are just like me (i like to feel that i am the protagonist in the game)
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                     so of course that willn't happen with female protagonist
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     -that's why i don't touch female protagonist games or NTR
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                       (only interested in male protagonist games
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                       without
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                       NTR
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                       my favorite games
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                     (4)- my new roommate          (5)- hack'n stalk 1-2   (6)- play with us 2
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                     Makes sense that you hold all those opinions at the same time as an archetypal immersionfag.
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                     I have pretty much opposite view on everything you said. I don't project myself into the games, I see them as stories happening to other people. I don't mind female protags or ntr, or largely anything.
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                     Funnily I don't like playing as female in AAA games for other reasons.
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                        Well i dont really hate them but i just cant get into them (maybe cause im a guy?) and in the end i just being overprotective without actually enjoy the game.
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                     over protective that's what i am talking about (just the same)
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                        Makes sense that you hold all those opinions at the same time as an archetypal immersionfag.
                        <br/>
                        I have pretty much opposite view on everything you said. I don't project myself into the games, I see them as stories happening to other people. I don't mind female protags or ntr, or largely anything.
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                        Funnily I don't like playing as female in AAA games for other reasons.
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                     Theres a reason most of the new games go all POV style on us buddy...
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                        Makes sense that you hold all those opinions at the same time as an archetypal immersionfag.
                        <br/>
                        I have pretty much opposite view on everything you said. I don't project myself into the games, I see them as stories happening to other people. I don't mind female protags or ntr, or largely anything.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Funnily I don't like playing as female in AAA games for other reasons.
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                     when the game contain decisions to make
                     <br/>
                     -then it's not a story about some one else
                     <br/>
                     (you are the one who is taking the decisions)
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                     <br/>
                     edited:
                     <br/>
                     and as
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/members/johnny-doe.815849/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      @Johnny-Doe
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                     said
                     <br/>
                     every game contain pov (it's to make yourself the one in the game)
                     <br/>
                     and even if not pov
                     <br/>
                     (when the game contain decisions then you aren't just watching story for others)
                     <br/>
                     you are taking decisions now so you are in charge
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                     <br/>
                     personally every single game i put myself in the game
                     <br/>
                     and if i couldn't  i don't play it
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                     depends on the game for me. i can't say i hate it,i actually find quite interesting when the female character is kinda slutty and is seducing and sleeping with everyone,even with losers,just like me XD. if that part is done well than i usually like the game in the end
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                        depends on the game for me. i can't say i hate it,i actually find quite interesting when the female character is kinda slutty and is seducing and sleeping with everyone,even with losers,just like me XD. if that part is done well than i usually like the game in the end
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                     strange opinion especially for someone who like
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                     maybe because you play the games  just for sex
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                     if you tried to be in the game you will feel something else
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                     I don't really enjoy them mainly because corruption / non-con does nothing for me, and that's what 90% of f. protag is about. Make "wrong" choice, get caught, blackmailed, put into a bad position she can only get out of with sexual favors, she enjoys it, becomes a mindless slut. I've gotten really close to liking a couple of them but the tropes killed it for me.
                     <br/>
                     I think if writing is done correctly you can resonate with any character and feel some sort of immersion, but that's not usually the case, there are only a handful of games with good writing.
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                        strange opinion especially for someone who like
                        <br/>
                        melody and dating my daughter
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        maybe because you play the games  just for sex
                        <br/>
                        if you tried to be in the game you will feel something else
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                     You should work on that, it's normal and healthy for women to enjoy and look for sex you know? After all you don't mind harems of dozens of chicks you're cheating on but as soon as someone who has no connection to you (unless the game has a prequel) you lose your marbles?
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                        strange opinion especially for someone who like
                        <br/>
                        melody and dating my daughter
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        maybe because you play the games  just for sex
                        <br/>
                        if you tried to be in the game you will feel something else
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                     yeah,i'll always be more involved and enjoy male protag games,such as Melody,PL,LWT and so on but i don't neccessarily hate female protag games,Eleanor for example. I think they can be interesting to play too
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                        I don't really enjoy them mainly because corruption / non-con does nothing for me, and that's what 90% of f. protag is about. Make "wrong" choice, get caught, blackmailed, put into a bad position she can only get out of with sexual favors, she enjoys it, becomes a mindless slut. I've gotten really close to liking a couple of them but the tropes killed it for me.
                        <br/>
                        I think if writing is done correctly you can resonate with any character and feel some sort of immersion, but that's not usually the case, there are only a handful of games with good writing.
                        <br/>
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                        You should work on that, it's normal and healthy for women to enjoy and look for sex you know? After all you don't mind harems of dozens of chicks you're cheating on but as soon as someone who has no connection to you (unless the game has a prequel) you lose your marbles?
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                     no no no no....
                     <br/>
                     he doesn't have to live with that
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i will tell you quick notes
                     <br/>
                     1- 90% of people here care about the story more than sex
                     <br/>
                     2- about 80% or more hate NTR
                     <br/>
                     soo
                     <br/>
                     1- if you don't here for the story why don't just watch porn ???
                     <br/>
                     2- anyone who hate NTR because they live in the game and pretend to be in the game
                     <br/>
                     if they don't live in the game they will not hate NTR
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     so the majority here care about the story and hate NTR
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                        having sex without love is just meaningless and empty
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                      <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                       (only interested in male protagonist games
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">
                       without
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">
                       NTR
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                       /
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">
                       cuckold
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                       )
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                    <br/>
                    <span style="font-size: 12px">
                     <b>
                      <u>
                       my favorite games
                      </u>
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                     <br/>
                     (1)- my girlfriend amnesia   ( 2)- incest story 1-2   (3)- dreams of desires
                     <br/>
                     (4)- my new roommate          (5)- hack'n stalk 1-2   (6)- play with us 2
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                        kimoo said:
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                        no no no no....
                        <br/>
                        he doesn't have to live with that
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        i will tell you quick notes
                        <br/>
                        1- 90% of people here care about the story more than sex
                        <br/>
                        2- about 80% or more hate NTR
                        <br/>
                        soo
                        <br/>
                        1- if you don't here for the story why don't just watch porn ???
                        <br/>
                        2- anyone who hate NTR because they live in the game and pretend to be in the game
                        <br/>
                        if they don't live in the game they will not hate NTR
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        so the majority here care about the story and hate NTR
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                     Well I think your completely ignorant response is due to
                     <br/>
                     a) You didn't even take the time to read what I wrote.
                     <br/>
                     b) For some stupid reason we keep using a fucking japanese term no-one can agree what the fuck it means as some godly ruling of some sort.
                     <br/>
                     Now, we'll just ignore those legitimate statistics you pulled out simply because they're irrelevant and I'd even be in the majority for both scenarios.
                     <br/>
                     Both games have a story, get it through your thick skull, it can be good or suck cock but it's there. Now as someone who thoroughly enjoys influencing the story through choices, I simply don't like the corruption theme that's always in the background of f.protag.
                     <br/>
                     Now for your second point, it's understandable to some degree that you wouldn't want potential partners for mc being with someone else (you guys take it to a new extreme though, has every girlfriend you ever had been a virgin or are you very gullible?) if you're immersed as him, but if for you there's no immersion in f pr, then how the fuck are you getting cucked? there's no male mc, if anything you could see yourself as one of the males in the game and stay loyal to him. But if you see yourself in that universe and feel cucked because a woman you don't know is having sex, then I have terrible news for you, there's thousands of women having sex right now irl, so you live in constant cucking.
                     <br/>
                     Now I really want to recommend you something, try not using the term "ntr" for a while, at least in this thread, you have cuckold swinging cheating and a whole bunch of ENGLISH terms you can use that are way more specific and to the point. Because we've come to the point (and sadly accepted) where ANY female having sex at any point under any circumstances can be labeled ntr without anyone batting an eye. No one has kids by immaculate conception, yet if you were to show a scene about mom getting preggo in an incest game, even if mc wasn't even born and it was important to the plot everyone would cry ntr.
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                        Well I think your completely ignorant response is due to
                        <br/>
                        a) You didn't even take the time to read what I wrote.
                        <br/>
                        b) For some stupid reason we keep using a fucking japanese term no-one can agree what the fuck it means as some godly ruling of some sort.
                        <br/>
                        Now, we'll just ignore those legitimate statistics you pulled out simply because they're irrelevant and I'd even be in the majority for both scenarios.
                        <br/>
                        Both games have a story, get it through your thick skull, it can be good or suck cock but it's there. Now as someone who thoroughly enjoys influencing the story through choices, I simply don't like the corruption theme that's always in the background of f.protag.
                        <br/>
                        Now for your second point, it's understandable to some degree that you wouldn't want potential partners for mc being with someone else (you guys take it to a new extreme though, has every girlfriend you ever had been a virgin or are you very gullible?) if you're immersed as him, but if for you there's no immersion in f pr, then how the fuck are you getting cucked? there's no male mc, if anything you could see yourself as one of the males in the game and stay loyal to him. But if you see yourself in that universe and feel cucked because a woman you don't know is having sex, then I have terrible news for you, there's thousands of women having sex right now irl, so you live in constant cucking.
                        <br/>
                        Now I really want to recommend you something, try not using the term "ntr" for a while, at least in this thread, you have cuckold swinging cheating and a whole bunch of ENGLISH terms you can use that are way more specific and to the point. Because we've come to the point (and sadly accepted) where ANY female having sex at any point under any circumstances can be labeled ntr without anyone batting an eye. No one has kids by immaculate conception, yet if you were to show a scene about mom getting preggo in an incest game, even if mc wasn't even born and it was important to the plot everyone would cry ntr.
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                     i don't agree with you
                     <br/>
                     what you are saying you seems like
                     <br/>
                     you are okay with your woman or your girlfriend sleep with another man just for fun
                     <br/>
                     okay i am not
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and know that not all the women sluts so not all of them sleep with others just for fun (but you only see the bad ones)
                     <br/>
                     - if all the women sleep with men so i will wait for a virgin to love and be faithful to each other
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - or i will wait for a lesbian to change her mind and be straight
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - or i will live without marring instead of marring a slut
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     because i will be faithful to her and she should be to
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                        i don't agree with you
                        <br/>
                        what you are saying you seems like
                        <br/>
                        you are okay with your woman or your girlfriend sleep with another man just for fun
                        <br/>
                        okay i am not
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                     Okay jesus christ.
                     <b>
                      <u>
                       Work on your reading comprehension
                      </u>
                     </b>
                     . Your mom fucks your dad / her new husband daily or every week, your sister fucks her boyfriend daily, 99.99% of your friends aren't virgins. Are any of them your girlfriend? No. Are they sleeping with other man just for fun? Yes. Is that wrong? No, they are absolutely nothing to you. There's a certain margin for protection when it comes to a family member, but we're talking about a fucking game where's no male lead.
                     <br/>
                     Can you PLEASE explain to me how she's your girlfriend if you're not in the game? And I'm not talking about "you're not mc", I'm literally saying that there is no male for you to feel like him, so HOW THE FUCK can you think of that protagonist as your girlfriend?!.
                     <br/>
                     I hate cucking / cheating, but if there's a married neighbor you never met and she fucks her husband, SHE'S NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING CUCKED.
                     <br/>
                     Another example, if you have one male and one female protagonist that
                     <u>
                      never meet
                     </u>
                     on different corners of the world you'd immerse and play as the male, right? And you'd still make every choice possible to make sure she doesn't fuck anyone but you, EVEN IF THE TWO CHARACTERS WILL NEVER MEET.
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                        Okay jesus christ.
                        <b>
                         <u>
                          Work on your reading comprehension
                         </u>
                        </b>
                        . Your mom fucks your dad / her new husband daily or every week, your sister fucks her boyfriend daily, 99.99% of your friends aren't virgins. Are any of them your girlfriend? No. Are they sleeping with other man just for fun? Yes. Is that wrong? No, they are absolutely nothing to you. There's a certain margin for protection when it comes to a family member, but we're talking about a fucking game where's no male lead.
                        <br/>
                        Can you PLEASE explain to me how she's your girlfriend if you're not in the game? And I'm not talking about "you're not mc", I'm literally saying that there is no male for you to feel like him, so HOW THE FUCK can you think of that protagonist as your girlfriend?!.
                        <br/>
                        I hate cucking / cheating, but if there's a married neighbor you never met and she fucks her husband, SHE'S NOT YOUR GIRLFRIEND AND YOU'RE NOT GETTING CUCKED.
                        <br/>
                        Another example, if you have one male and one female protagonist that
                        <u>
                         never meet
                        </u>
                        on different corners of the world you'd immerse and play as the male, right? And you'd still make every choice possible to make sure she doesn't fuck anyone but you, EVEN IF THE TWO CHARACTERS WILL NEVER MEET.
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                     i will make it easy
                     <br/>
                     people aren't playing to just watch someone else fuck your girlfriend
                     <br/>
                     so they getting angry when they see the woman that they want to fuck  is sleeping with someone else
                     <br/>
                     (they cannot accept it and me too) i don't know about you
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     but there is a different between the game and the reality
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and after what you said
                     <br/>
                     (that there are mothers who sleep with men after husband dies)
                     <br/>
                     (and really 99.99% not virgin ?? where i live 90 % of women if not virgin people get afraid of them)
                     <br/>
                     (and no my sister couldn't fuck her boyfriend until they got engaged or married depend on the city and it's culture)
                     <br/>
                     (and here the mothers stay faithful to her husband and  about 80% of women don't marry again after their husband die )
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i am happy that i am living in India for now (i cannot really live with something like what you say)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     maybe different cultures change our decisions
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                        fitboy said:
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                        i will make it easy
                        <br/>
                        people aren't playing to just watch someone else fuck your girlfriend
                        <br/>
                        so they getting angry when they see the woman that they want to fuck  is sleeping with someone else
                        <br/>
                        (they cannot accept it and me too) i don't know about you
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        but there is a different between the game and the reality
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        and after what you said
                        <br/>
                        (that there are mothers who sleep with men after husband dies)
                        <br/>
                        (and really 99.99% not virgin ?? where i live 90 % of women if not virgin people get afraid of them)
                        <br/>
                        (and no my sister couldn't fuck her boyfriend until they got engaged or married depend on the city and it's culture)
                        <br/>
                        (and here the mothers stay faithful to her husband and  about 80% of women don't marry again after their husband die )
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        i am happy that i am living in India for now (i cannot really live with something like what you say)
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        maybe different cultures change our decisions
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                     </blockquote>
                     Well the fact that you're indian explains most of it to be honest, the fact that you can't read properly, heavy religious and societal frowning upon sex, also there's no reason for women to get re-married since they never wanted to in the first place.
                     <br/>
                     Now please, stop using the term ntr like a mindless puppet. Think before you write. You throw around a term you don't even know what the fuck it means, you just give it your own meaning and play it on repeat.
                     <br/>
                     Look at this girl
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                     You want to fuck her don't you? yet you never will, and she gets a good pounding from her boyfriend daily, even if you were to date her at some point, she isn't a virgin anymore, almost no-one is, get over it, it's reality.
                     <br/>
                     I gave you clear examples where you'd choose for a girl to remain a virgin while the character you play as cheats on his 60 women harem every chance he gets and yet you don't see anything wrong with that, like it's right for you to have all the fun you want to, but the girl is expected to stay a virgin until she finds.... you i guess? because she couldn't find any other man, it has to be you, otherwise it's ntr.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you're in an english speaking forum then write in engilsh, not japanese abbreviations. If you don't want to see any girl having sex if it's not with you (god forbid porn then) that's completely fine, but don't go tagging around "NTR this NTR that I'm indian every girl should be a virgin to join my harem".
                     <br/>
                     <u>
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                       USE. PROPER. ENGLISH
                      </b>
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                     I'm not that over protective to Female Protagonist game, although I'm the same as you, who's avoid this genre.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The thing is, many of these Female Protagonist game are matching (aka Sex with...) the 'Perfect &amp; Beautiful' MC with the worst male characters. I would not that resist to these genre if the Female MC only fucking another Handsome Males NPC. Yet for many Female Protagonist I've played, they story always (/forced) making her fucking Ugly Fat Boss, Dirty Hobos, Assholes Antagonist, etc etc etc.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This is different to Male Protagonist games, where the Male MC usually only fuck the beautiful NPCs, even if it forced. Make sense isn't it ?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Those Female Protagonist's Developer always try to destroy their own Female MC's dignity/morality ... while the Male Protagonist's Developer always try build up the Male MC's Macho'ness/Grandeur.
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                     Show me Female Protagonist games that not forcing the MC to fuck big ugly boss or hobos or assholes, I might play that games.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="fitboy · Oct 30, 2018 at 3:55 AM" data-lb-id="post-1230849">
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                        Well the fact that you're indian explains most of it to be honest, the fact that you can't read properly, heavy religious and societal frowning upon sex, also there's no reason for women to get re-married since they never wanted to in the first place.
                        <br/>
                        Now please, stop using the term ntr like a mindless puppet. Think before you write. You throw around a term you don't even know what the fuck it means, you just give it your own meaning and play it on repeat.
                        <br/>
                        Look at this girl
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                        You want to fuck her don't you? yet you never will, and she gets a good pounding from her boyfriend daily, even if you were to date her at some point, she isn't a virgin anymore, almost no-one is, get over it, it's reality.
                        <br/>
                        I gave you clear examples where you'd choose for a girl to remain a virgin while the character you play as cheats on his 60 women harem every chance he gets and yet you don't see anything wrong with that, like it's right for you to have all the fun you want to, but the girl is expected to stay a virgin until she finds.... you i guess? because she couldn't find any other man, it has to be you, otherwise it's ntr.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        If you're in an english speaking forum then write in engilsh, not japanese abbreviations. If you don't want to see any girl having sex if it's not with you (god forbid porn then) that's completely fine, but don't go tagging around "NTR this NTR that I'm indian every girl should be a virgin to join my harem".
                        <br/>
                        <u>
                         <b>
                          USE. PROPER. ENGLISH
                         </b>
                        </u>
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                     who told you that i am cheating or prefer harem ??
                     <br/>
                     -every game i play i try to be faithful to one woman the woman i like
                     <br/>
                     so what you saying isn't right
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     you seems like the type of guys who like NTR
                     <br/>
                     and you are angry because i use it ??
                     <br/>
                     give me another word to use ....
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     about asking me to use proper English
                     <br/>
                     (if every one who speak English a little should use proper English) this forum wouldn't reach these number of members
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     at least i speak your language   but you don't speak my language
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                     A few are good like Blooming Love and Coceter Chronicles.
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                     right there with you OP. i cant stand fem protagonists as they are always dumb as a sack of potatoes and get raped or molested 5 times a day. but others have already said everything there is to say. if i have absolutely nothing to play, i might download one of those and try to make MC a lesbian while protecting her from getting raped or being turned into a slut because some guy groped her.
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                     Well, I'm working on a female protag VN so I guess that's why I found myself in this thread.
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                     I'm just going to leave this here, as everyone is entitled to their own opinions and tastes in video games. Calling someone out because they do or don't like a certain video game type just because you, yourself, do or don't is particularly childish. You're entitled to your own tastes and opinions, but understand that it is YOURS, not everyone's. If you do not like a certain genre of something, then just avoid it. There is no need, or anyone who wants to hear it, to share your displeasure with a game because the lead is a female (in a games thread). Just stick to what you enjoy and move on with your life. The games are clearly labelled for you to do so, so no one is tricking you into playing any female protag games.
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                     With that said, I enjoy female protag games. Probably because I am not a jealous person and enjoy watching females experience pleasure. I find it funny when people complain about MMF scenes in games; like you're really that uncomfortable, insecure and jealous that you need to complain about a MMF threesome in a video game? Your loss.
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                     The hate doesn't bother me and i'm female. It won't stop female protag games being made and it gives me something to laugh at.
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                     They don't play female protags for the same reason I tend to avoid male protags, I can't get into it. I don't like cock either so that doesn't help. Fortunately there are games with female leads that give enough options to avoid men too.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Good Girl Gone Bad i've gone lesbian apart from the trans gym girl, I liked her. Wife and Mother has lesbian options so i've been avoiding all the men in that including the husband. Even in male protag games there are some where you can push some of the women into lesbian relationships. I've got Melody and her friend going at it in her game and Wicked Choices i've got the princess going for her best friend.
                     <br/>
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                     It's a lot harder for romance novels, especially Japanese ones, they usually tend to be male lead but the story and characters are usually good enough that I can ignore that.
                     <br/>
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                     The only time it gets to be a problem is when that male lead is an awkward, whiny little manchild that can't string a sentence together when he sees a woman. Those irritate me and I end up shutting them down. I can't talk to people like that when it isn't in a game so i'm not going to waste my entertainment time reading it.
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                     So I went through this quoting people left and right, but rather than using those direct quotes I'm just going to summarize, because otherwise this post would be as long as the entire thread up to this point.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     First, lets address the most ignorant thing people who "hate female protagonists" say:
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                          You should be able to put yourself in literally any character's shoes so long as it's well written. You should be able to accept, if you're playing as a straight or bisexual woman, that your character who you are immersing yourself in has sex with men. If you're not able to do that then don't sit there and claim that when you play porn games you're immersing yourself in the character, because you're not, you're removing the character and replacing them with yourself.
                         </div>
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                     "I don't want to get fucked":
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                          The number of female protagonist games that feature point of view sexual content is so small that it's an anomaly in the data. These game's usually go out of their way to show the sex in 3rd person. Just like when you're watching porn and you can imagine yourself as the guy in the porno fucking the chick, you should be able to turn on that part of your brain and see yourself as the dude fucking the MC. Or are you truly incapable of controlling your mind?
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                     "I don't like NTR":
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                          Bullshit. As
                          <a class="username" data-user-id="363444" data-username="@W22N" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/363444/">
                           @W22N
                          </a>
                          was quick to point out, you all keep using this word which you don't understand. So let me enlighten you. If you steal a wife from her husband in a game, you're playing an NTR game. If you steal a woman from a boyfriend in a game, you're playing an NTR game. If you have sex with your bully's sister/mother/girlfriend as a means to get revenge for his bullying, you're playing an NTR game. In each of these scenarios, you are what is known as a Netori.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                          No, what you don't like is perceived challenges to your manhood. You can't handle the idea that maybe you're not good enough. That you might have to actually compete. You are jealous and spiteful. And most of all, you're incredibly selfish. Most of the games available for play on this site have plots that allow the MC to be unfaithful to anyone he wants. And yet people cry NTR the moment their mommy has a boyfriend, before you've even made your claim to her.
                          <br/>
                          <br/>
                          Finally, lets make something perfectly clear. NTR is not about watching a girl who you like have sex. It is an act in which party A, who we will call the victim, has some bond of trust with party B, who we will call the betrayer, and a third party, C (the Netori), comes around and gets B to betray and completely destroy that bond of trust. In that way, you don't have to be in a romantic relationship with someone to be in an NTR scenario. Your mom who you have no romantic attachments to and who has always been there to take care of you, provide for you, put food on the table, could suddenly get a new boyfriend, that boyfriend could be a whimp or a badass, or anywhere in between, but what matters is, his very existence takes your mother away from you, she is no longer around to take care of your needs, she's is providing for you, but just barely, and you now have to put your own food on the table. You haven't been cucked, as you're not in a sexual relationship, but the bond of trust between you and your mother has been broken beyond repair, that is NTR. NTR is not Cheating, it is not Cuckoldry, it is not "my mommy/sister/cousin/auntie/crush already has a boyfriend/husband/lover", it is not "my mommy/sister/cousin/auntie/crush is already a sex worker". All of these things can be a part of NTR, but they are not what NTR is.
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                     "No one likes NTR":
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                          A vocal minority hates NTR, but every single NTR game has a shit ton of patrons and followers. NTR is a huge fetish and so many people are into it.
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                     "I feel like I'm too protective/I don't like corruption/I try not to have sex":
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                          These are 3 different comments, made by 3 different people, and for different reasons, but I think they all touch on the same issue. Poorly written Female Protagonist games. The concept of the Retard in Lechertown is mentioned a couple times in this thread already, but people need to understand from why exactly it's such a bad trope.
                          <br/>
                          <ul>
                           <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                            Narratively, it is a system that relies on antagonists who are completely irredeemable as people and worse with plans so fucktarded that they require protagonists who are too stupid to fight their way out of a paper bag. Cheap poorly thought out blackmail and coercion paired with women who don't realize that they exist in a world where everyone, and I mean everyone, is a rapist.
                           </li>
                           <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                            Lack of agency. As the player in these games you obviously have a goal in mind, sexual content. However, the game is designed with the retarded protagonist in mind, and her desire not to get raped is the whole focus. You have no choice to make her be the type of person who doesn't like it, but also knows it's easier not to fight, nor do you have the choice to make her want it, to make her the type of girl who fantasizes about getting cornered in a dark alley, or blackmailed by her disgusting pig of a boss. Nor do you have the choice to get the police involved and try to deal with the consequences.
                           </li>
                           <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                            Perversion of the stairway to heaven. You see, the real reason these games do the narrative and agency issue is that they think that if there's not a subtle slow progression to the game, if they aren't slowly building up the eroticism from light touches up until it's slutty conclusion, then you aren't going to be interested. They flip the stairway to heaven on its head, changing it from a mating ritual in which we slowly familiarize ourselves with a potential partner, and turning it into a system to drag out the inevitable. Instead of each step up being a victory, it's a defeat, the MC losing a part of their soul and their willpower to fight. At each level something more depraved opens up and our MC is subjected to worse and worse.
                           </li>
                          </ul>
                          If the reasons you don't like corruption, that you feel the need to protect your MC, or that you try not to have sex, have anything to do with the entire plot revolving around this shitty mechanic, then your problem isn't female protagonists, it's shitty writing. Corruption, in reality, is not something you can do to the unwilling. If you blackmail, coerce, or kidnap and rape a person into submission you aren't corrupting them, you're making their instincts learn how to survive in the situation they're forced into. If they ever get out of that situation they may still have some of the institutionalized conditioning, but they aren't going to be "corrupted". They aren't going to be sluts who seek pain for the sake of pleasure or slaves to a lust that you woke up inside of them. They're going to be in therapy with PTSD and watching around every corner, their chances of being a victim of more sexual violence go up as their conditioning has turned them into a victim. They aren't corrupt, they're damaged. It's poor writing because these people don't understand what they're doing.
                         </div>
                        </div>
                       </div>
                      </div>
                     </div>
                     In the end, you don't have to enjoy playing a female protagonist. But you need to admit that your reasons for that are a lack of ability to immerse yourself in a particular character, a lack of appreciation or respect for women, and/or a lack of having played games that are well written.
                     <br/>
                     <ul>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Coceter Chronicles
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Project SAGE
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Everwhore
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Good Girl Gone Bad
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Zoe's Temptations
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       I Love Daddy
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Pale Pure
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       California Bound
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Kingdom Of Deception
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Vis Major: Awakening
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Insexity (but really this game is kinda boring)
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Chloe18 (and sequels)
                      </li>
                      <li data-xf-list-type="ul">
                       Seraphim Academy
                      </li>
                     </ul>
                     Some of these games feature corruption, but they do so with agency. California Bound is probably the most intense of them, with the MC being thrust into a situation wherein she is forced to give up on her dreams or become a whore to be used, but even then it's well written. Her reasons for accepting it are her own, and she does come to grips with it, it isn't something she's forced into, it's something she chooses as she cares more about achieving her dream of becoming an actress than she does her dignity.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some of these don't really have true corruption. Coceter Chronicles, Chloe18, Project SAGE, Good Girl Gone Bad, I Love Daddy, Seraphim Academy, and Zoe's Temptations are all examples of coming of age tales in which the female protagonist isn't being corrupted but is instead learning about themselves and exploring their sexuality in a way that does lead them down a more sexual path, but is never presented as an outside force acting on them, simply them coming to terms with what gets them off.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Pale Pure is definitely the odd one out here. The game is far more about the conspiracies going on in the background than it is about any particular sexual theme. There's an element of coming of age, as both characters do come to grips with some of their newfound kinks, but mostly it's just a game that happens to have a lot of sex with a cool conspiracy.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Try some of these, Coceter Chronicles is probably the easiest for someone who abhors female protagonists to get into, though it does have a couple sexual assault scenes, the only one that is truly forced is something you can fight back against, and the others are avoidable if you aren't a complete idiot and have a relationship with Courtney. There's also a lot of lesbian sex, with very little in the way of forced sex with men, allowing you to make that choice.
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                     Personally:
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="fitboy · Oct 30, 2018 at 12:38 PM" data-lb-id="post-1232004">
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                        So I went through this quoting people left and right, but rather than using those direct quotes I'm just going to summarize, because otherwise this post would be as long as the entire thread up to this point.
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                        First, lets address the most ignorant thing people who "hate female protagonists" say:
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                             You should be able to put yourself in literally any character's shoes so long as it's well written. You should be able to accept, if you're playing as a straight or bisexual woman, that your character who you are immersing yourself in has sex with men. If you're not able to do that then don't sit there and claim that when you play porn games you're immersing yourself in the character, because you're not, you're removing the character and replacing them with yourself.
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                        "I don't want to get fucked":
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                             The number of female protagonist games that feature point of view sexual content is so small that it's an anomaly in the data. These game's usually go out of their way to show the sex in 3rd person. Just like when you're watching porn and you can imagine yourself as the guy in the porno fucking the chick, you should be able to turn on that part of your brain and see yourself as the dude fucking the MC. Or are you truly incapable of controlling your mind?
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                        "I don't like NTR":
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                             Bullshit. As
                             <a class="username" data-user-id="363444" data-username="@W22N" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/363444/">
                              @W22N
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                             was quick to point out, you all keep using this word which you don't understand. So let me enlighten you. If you steal a wife from her husband in a game, you're playing an NTR game. If you steal a woman from a boyfriend in a game, you're playing an NTR game. If you have sex with your bully's sister/mother/girlfriend as a means to get revenge for his bullying, you're playing an NTR game. In each of these scenarios, you are what is known as a Netori.
                             <br/>
                             <br/>
                             No, what you don't like is perceived challenges to your manhood. You can't handle the idea that maybe you're not good enough. That you might have to actually compete. You are jealous and spiteful. And most of all, you're incredibly selfish. Most of the games available for play on this site have plots that allow the MC to be unfaithful to anyone he wants. And yet people cry NTR the moment their mommy has a boyfriend, before you've even made your claim to her.
                             <br/>
                             <br/>
                             Finally, lets make something perfectly clear. NTR is not about watching a girl who you like have sex. It is an act in which party A, who we will call the victim, has some bond of trust with party B, who we will call the betrayer, and a third party, C (the Netori), comes around and gets B to betray and completely destroy that bond of trust. In that way, you don't have to be in a romantic relationship with someone to be in an NTR scenario. Your mom who you have no romantic attachments to and who has always been there to take care of you, provide for you, put food on the table, could suddenly get a new boyfriend, that boyfriend could be a whimp or a badass, or anywhere in between, but what matters is, his very existence takes your mother away from you, she is no longer around to take care of your needs, she's is providing for you, but just barely, and you now have to put your own food on the table. You haven't been cucked, as you're not in a sexual relationship, but the bond of trust between you and your mother has been broken beyond repair, that is NTR. NTR is not Cheating, it is not Cuckoldry, it is not "my mommy/sister/cousin/auntie/crush already has a boyfriend/husband/lover", it is not "my mommy/sister/cousin/auntie/crush is already a sex worker". All of these things can be a part of NTR, but they are not what NTR is.
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                        "No one likes NTR":
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                             A vocal minority hates NTR, but every single NTR game has a shit ton of patrons and followers. NTR is a huge fetish and so many people are into it.
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                        "I feel like I'm too protective/I don't like corruption/I try not to have sex":
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                             These are 3 different comments, made by 3 different people, and for different reasons, but I think they all touch on the same issue. Poorly written Female Protagonist games. The concept of the Retard in Lechertown is mentioned a couple times in this thread already, but people need to understand from why exactly it's such a bad trope.
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                               Narratively, it is a system that relies on antagonists who are completely irredeemable as people and worse with plans so fucktarded that they require protagonists who are too stupid to fight their way out of a paper bag. Cheap poorly thought out blackmail and coercion paired with women who don't realize that they exist in a world where everyone, and I mean everyone, is a rapist.
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                               Lack of agency. As the player in these games you obviously have a goal in mind, sexual content. However, the game is designed with the retarded protagonist in mind, and her desire not to get raped is the whole focus. You have no choice to make her be the type of person who doesn't like it, but also knows it's easier not to fight, nor do you have the choice to make her want it, to make her the type of girl who fantasizes about getting cornered in a dark alley, or blackmailed by her disgusting pig of a boss. Nor do you have the choice to get the police involved and try to deal with the consequences.
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                               Perversion of the stairway to heaven. You see, the real reason these games do the narrative and agency issue is that they think that if there's not a subtle slow progression to the game, if they aren't slowly building up the eroticism from light touches up until it's slutty conclusion, then you aren't going to be interested. They flip the stairway to heaven on its head, changing it from a mating ritual in which we slowly familiarize ourselves with a potential partner, and turning it into a system to drag out the inevitable. Instead of each step up being a victory, it's a defeat, the MC losing a part of their soul and their willpower to fight. At each level something more depraved opens up and our MC is subjected to worse and worse.
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                             If the reasons you don't like corruption, that you feel the need to protect your MC, or that you try not to have sex, have anything to do with the entire plot revolving around this shitty mechanic, then your problem isn't female protagonists, it's shitty writing. Corruption, in reality, is not something you can do to the unwilling. If you blackmail, coerce, or kidnap and rape a person into submission you aren't corrupting them, you're making their instincts learn how to survive in the situation they're forced into. If they ever get out of that situation they may still have some of the institutionalized conditioning, but they aren't going to be "corrupted". They aren't going to be sluts who seek pain for the sake of pleasure or slaves to a lust that you woke up inside of them. They're going to be in therapy with PTSD and watching around every corner, their chances of being a victim of more sexual violence go up as their conditioning has turned them into a victim. They aren't corrupt, they're damaged. It's poor writing because these people don't understand what they're doing.
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                        In the end, you don't have to enjoy playing a female protagonist. But you need to admit that your reasons for that are a lack of ability to immerse yourself in a particular character, a lack of appreciation or respect for women, and/or a lack of having played games that are well written.
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                          Coceter Chronicles
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                          Project SAGE
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                          Everwhore
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                          Good Girl Gone Bad
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                          Zoe's Temptations
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                          I Love Daddy
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                          Pale Pure
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                          California Bound
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                          Kingdom Of Deception
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                          Vis Major: Awakening
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                          Insexity (but really this game is kinda boring)
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                          Chloe18 (and sequels)
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                          Seraphim Academy
                         </li>
                        </ul>
                        Some of these games feature corruption, but they do so with agency. California Bound is probably the most intense of them, with the MC being thrust into a situation wherein she is forced to give up on her dreams or become a whore to be used, but even then it's well written. Her reasons for accepting it are her own, and she does come to grips with it, it isn't something she's forced into, it's something she chooses as she cares more about achieving her dream of becoming an actress than she does her dignity.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Some of these don't really have true corruption. Coceter Chronicles, Chloe18, Project SAGE, Good Girl Gone Bad, I Love Daddy, Seraphim Academy, and Zoe's Temptations are all examples of coming of age tales in which the female protagonist isn't being corrupted but is instead learning about themselves and exploring their sexuality in a way that does lead them down a more sexual path, but is never presented as an outside force acting on them, simply them coming to terms with what gets them off.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Pale Pure is definitely the odd one out here. The game is far more about the conspiracies going on in the background than it is about any particular sexual theme. There's an element of coming of age, as both characters do come to grips with some of their newfound kinks, but mostly it's just a game that happens to have a lot of sex with a cool conspiracy.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Try some of these, Coceter Chronicles is probably the easiest for someone who abhors female protagonists to get into, though it does have a couple sexual assault scenes, the only one that is truly forced is something you can fight back against, and the others are avoidable if you aren't a complete idiot and have a relationship with Courtney. There's also a lot of lesbian sex, with very little in the way of forced sex with men, allowing you to make that choice.
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                     </blockquote>
                     good words from a person who like female protagonist more than male protagonist
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                     <br/>
                     if you are going to talk about NTR
                     <br/>
                     you should know that iam not here for sex just for the story
                     <br/>
                     so i am here to fuck or sleep with them not to see them sleep with other
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     if you don't understand that so you will not understand my opinion
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and don't say that the minority hate NTR
                     <br/>
                     every game in this thread contain NTR you will see most of the comments complaining about NTR
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     personally when i play one game i cannot have sex with more than one woman because my mind doesn't accept it despite i know it's just a game but i don't want to cheat
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     so every game i try to make it a sensual romance game as much as i can
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     but when i play a game like (my girlfriend amnesia)
                     <br/>
                     i don't want to see my girlfriend  groped in the elevator (WTF she is my girlfriend in the game)
                     <br/>
                     should i be happy with her being raped ??
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     or at least make the NTR avoidable
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     just like (incest story 2)
                     <br/>
                     when i am in relation with my mother and some guy groped her in the restaurant (not avoidable either)
                     <br/>
                     what is the point of that ???
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i said i like to be in the game i play so i will ask you
                     <br/>
                     will you accept your girlfriend being groped in front of you in real life ??
                     <br/>
                     (if you are a normal person with normal mind you will not accept because that's the nature of humanity)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i don't think in real life you will stand the idea  that your friend is cheating on you with someone in this time
                     <br/>
                     unless you are gay (no insulting)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     so did i make it clear ??
                     <br/>
                     when i play a game and be in relationship with my girlfriend or mother or daughter
                     <br/>
                     (why should someone come and fuck her)
                     <br/>
                     so why am i even playing ???
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and don't tell me that iam cheating so why shouldn't she cheat
                     <br/>
                     no there are alot of games that i stay loyal to my girlfriend and she getting groped (unavoidable) ...
                     <br/>
                     like (my girlfriend amnesia)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and i stayed loyal to my mother in (incest story 2) and she got groped in the restaurant
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i just mentioned 2  games only and popular ones  so if you want me to mention all of the games that contain that
                     <br/>
                     just tell me
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     put your preference for NTR and female protagonist aside and answer without biased
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                     NTR ALL DAY BABY!!!!
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                     As long as the story, characters and art attracts me, I can love them!
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                     I enjoy Female protagonist, male protagonist that shows his face and I can name myself, males that don't show their face and still can name them, or makes that come with a fixed named.
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                        fitboy said:
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                        if you are going to talk about NTR
                        <br/>
                        you should know that iam not here for sex just for the story
                        <br/>
                        so i am here to fuck or sleep with them not to see them sleep with other
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        if you don't understand that so you will not understand my opinion
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                     Well, apparently your opinion contradicts itself, so...
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                        fitboy said:
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                        and don't say that the minority hate NTR
                        <br/>
                        every game in this thread contain NTR you will see most of the comments complaining about NTR
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                     VOCAL minority. Do you understand the significance of that word? Do you understand the sheer number of users on this site and how few of them actually respond to threads? The second most liked game thread on this site has NTR. My own project with NTR made more in the first week than my other project, with a female protagonist, did in it's first 2 months. The number of people who loudly proclaim they don't like NTR is high. But so is the number of people who play and enjoy games with NTR.
                     <br/>
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                        fitboy said:
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                        personally when i play one game i cannot have sex with more than one woman because my mind doesn't accept it despite i know it's just a game but i don't want to cheat
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        so every game i try to make it a sensual romance game as much as i can
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                     See my point in my previous post about you not immersing yourself in the character, but taking the character out and putting yourself in.
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                        fitboy said:
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                        but when i play a game like (my girlfriend amnesia)
                        <br/>
                        i don't want to see my girlfriend groped in the elevator (WTF she is my girlfriend in the game)
                        <br/>
                        should i be happy with her being raped ??
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        or at least make the NTR avoidable
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                     That's the only scene in that game that you have to see, and guess what, ITS NOT NTR. She's being molested in that scene, it isn't supposed to make you happy, you're supposed to be mad. So congrats, you actually did what the game wanted you to do for once, and you are mad at the game.
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                        fitboy said:
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                        just like (incest story 2)
                        <br/>
                        when i am in relation with my mother and some guy groped her in the restaurant (not avoidable either)
                        <br/>
                        what is the point of that ???
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                     To make you mad, to make you strive to defend her, to make you see that you have to work to keep her to yourself if that's what you want.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
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                        i said i like to be in the game i play so i will ask you
                        <br/>
                        will you accept your girlfriend being groped in front of you in real life ??
                        <br/>
                        (if you are a normal person with normal mind you will not accept because that's the nature of humanity)
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                     No it's not, in fact, it's so not that you sound incredibly ignorant right now. The nature of humanity is that women are able to orgasm multiple times through sex while men generally get 2-3 in a given session, if they're lucky. Meaning a woman single woman can be fucked by as many men as necessary and continue receiving pleasure from that experience. Meanwhile, men's penises are shaped in the way that they are so that they can remove other men's sperm from inside her vagina, hopefully increasing the chances that it is their sperm that survives to give her a child.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Social constructs of masculine dominance and patriarchal power came after nature was done. They are just that though, constructs. We are all slaves to social constructs. In my country we collectively believed black people to be naturally inferior to white people, we created pseudo-scientific justifications of that belief and spread it far and wide, so far and wide, in fact, that today, half a century after black people fought for and won their equal status, we still have a large number of people living who believe the same shit we taught back then. In this same country, nearly a century ago, women were treated almost as poorly as, if not, in some ways, worse than they are in India today.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     As to myself, I'm polyamorous. I don't believe in monogamy. I have very few examples that I can point to of "true love" and see clearly that monogamy is a tool of the state to keep us in easily controllable groups. As a result, I'm not opposed to, in an open relationship, another man becoming involved. But to be clear, context matters. For instance, I'm a dom. If my girl is a sub, I might invite another man to fuck her as punishment, or a reward depending on how she'd perceive that. I'm not getting off on the other man, I'm getting off on the power I have over her.
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                        i don't think in real life you will stand the idea that your friend is cheating on you with someone in this time
                        <br/>
                        unless you are gay (no insulting)
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                     I don't see what sexuality has to do with it.
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                        no there are alot of games that i stay loyal to my girlfriend and she getting groped (unavoidable) ...
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                     You keep saying this and it's really pissing me the fuck off. Stop blaming the victim of groping for the groping.
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                        put your preference for NTR and female protagonist aside and answer without biased
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                     I don't have a preference for them. I think NTR makes a great story element, but I don't find it all that erotic personally. I do enjoy playing as a female protagonist, but no more than I enjoy playing as a male protagonist. I am able, unlike you, to put myself in the shoes of the protagonist no matter who they are, so long as the game is well written.
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                     lol ,, friendly advice don't put yourself in the protag shoes, playing a game reading manga/comics hearing a story etc be a bystander watching others life , and dont forget this is just a " GAME " not reality ... i know that feeling of urs i was like that before, wont enjoy something if thers something wrong according to my preferences or own beliefs , try to change be open minded i assure u will enjoy alot more not just in games..
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                    anti ntr team are mostly virgins since birth
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                    since they cant get a girl irl they focus on games immersing themselves having their dream harem
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                     I don't hate them, I just don't play them because I generally like to project myself into the protag. But I don't feel any anger about it "ugh another female protag game!"
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                        - or i will wait for a lesbian to change her mind and be straight
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                     Tell you what, you take a cock up your arse and i'll consider changing my sexual preference.
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                     That's not how lesbians work. No, those that have a bad experience with men, sleep with women, then go back were never lesbian they were bi curious.
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                     I just realised that the 3 times i've got genuinely angry over someone saying something monumentally ignorant and moronic on this site it's been at you.
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                     I don't really care either way because I don't self insert unless the character you play as doesn't even have their face shown and isn't given a name. For me self inserting is more so a case of trying to fill in a lack of information. I'd be more likely to dislike a lesbian porn game since it seems lacking to me. That being said on some level I can relate when it comes to stuff like old ugly fat bastard content because ignoring the fact theres a blob on the screen that might make me want to vomit I also find a lot of content that involves that leaves much to be desire. I recommend just avoiding such content like I avoid gay porn unless you like punishing yourself.
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                        Tell you what, you take a cock up your arse and i'll consider changing my sexual preference.
                        <br/>
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                        That's not how lesbians work. No, those that have a bad experience with men, sleep with women, then go back were never lesbian they were bi curious.
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                        I just realised that the 3 times i've got genuinely angry over someone saying something monumentally ignorant and moronic on this site it's been at you.
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                     There is really no reason for you to get mad at him, he already said he is from India, it's like arguing with someone from Saudia Arabia that women shouldn't wear bed sheets over their head or ( until recently ) be allowed to drive a car.
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                    My mods:
                    <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/two-weeks-madek.9426/post-1451422" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                     Two Weeks Episodes 1 - 6
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                    combined into one file for Windows and Mac,
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                      Lucky Mark Cheat Mod
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                      ,
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                     Haley's Story Gallery Mod
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                    ,
                    <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/alexandra-gallery-mod-v0-40-v1-wurg.34276/">
                     Alexandra Gallery Mod
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                    ,
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                     <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/life-with-mary-gallery-mod-v1-0-2-v1-wurg.34806/">
                      Life With Mary Gallery Mod
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                     Why should the gender of the protagonist even matter? If it's good, then it's good.
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                        ...so many male MC's are kind of just douche's (though of course, not all).
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                     Dear God do I hate the protagonist from Solvalley School. That dude's a fuckhead.
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                        There is really no reason for you to get mad at him, he already said he is from India, it's like arguing with someone from Saudia Arabia that women shouldn't wear bed sheets over their head or ( until recently ) be allowed to drive a car.
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                     People tend to get angry when someone challenges their sexual preference. I mean I wouldn't like it if someone came up to me and was like hey "I'll just wait for you to become gay". I would think they are delusional tbh. This stuff only works in porn much like a rape victim instantly falling in love with their rapist with heart pupils.
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                        Why should the gender of the protagonist even matter? If it's good, then it's good.
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                     Preference is always going to be a thing. There could be an incredibly well made gay porn game but I'll never been inclined to play it as it's outside my tastes or how I almost never buy coffee from fast food places because I find whatever they offer is typical inferior to what I can make at home and I'm probably being charged triple mark up at the same time.
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                        Preference is always going to be a thing.
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                     That makes a lot of sense, actually.
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                        Dear God do I hate the protagonist from Solvalley School. That dude's a fuckhead.
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                     In all fairness though, that's the joke
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                     CHARACTER DEPTH MATTERS!!!
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                      The Things We Do For Love
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                        The librarian character and the MC really feel like a lot of the authors politics are bleeding into the game too, and it's really awkward.
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                     Good lord, I didn't even get that far. Can you give me a quick rundown on that?
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                        In all fairness though, that's the joke
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                     I wish I got the joke, but instead I'm too busy thinking about how much of a cunt he is. Game had content, too.
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                        People tend to get angry when someone challenges their sexual preference. I mean I wouldn't like it if someone came up to me and was like hey "I'll just wait for you to become gay". I would think they are delusional tbh. This stuff only works in porn much like a rape victim instantly falling in love with their rapist with heart pupils.
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                        Preference is always going to be a thing. There could be an incredibly well made gay porn game but I'll never been inclined to play it as it's outside my tastes or how I almost never buy coffee from fast food places because I find whatever they offer is typical inferior to what I can make at home and I'm probably being charged triple mark up at the same time.
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                     I understand that, the point I was trying to make is this is the internet available to the world.  There are many cultures around the world where choice for women or the concept of lesbian/homosexuality is frowned upon, and some places it still carries a death sentence.  More than not one's viewpoints are based upon the culture they grew up in.  Here in the States where I live, there is a vast differences in peoples opinions based on where they live, i.e. someone from San Fransico vs. someone from Alabama, completely different worlds and viewpoints.
                     <br/>
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                     The point I was trying to make is to not take it personally, brush it off as ignorance to the human condition and go about your day.  You can't argue or get upset with everyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs as you, it will make for a very hard life.
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                        Just to clarify my issue with Solvalley School, him being a bit of a doofus/ugly isn't what put me off, I actually kind of like that. It's very specifically a few of the lines he has when it seems like it's the author speaking through the MC, which was my issue with the librarian too.
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                     What did he say? Also, I actually kinda liked that he was ugly. After all, I heard that ugly dudes with charisma get laid all the time.
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                        The point I was trying to make is to not take it personally, brush it off as ignorance to the human condition and go about your day.  You can't argue or get upset with everyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs as you, it will make for a very hard life.
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                     Amen
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                     Hum, my opinion in the first question of this topic, is a big no, i don't hate AT ALL the female protagonist games. Many reasons to that, first, i take a game for what it is, a game. BUT like many of you in can easily take things very personaly and some feelings too. With a female prot Game, i can be out of it, and just clearly enjoy the game.
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                     Exemple, Anna Exciting Affections! I love this game, not only for the renders, not only for the sex scenes, but for the fact that 1. You have choices 2. you can let you fantasy take the lead. I don't feel that bad as when i play a Male. Same for the NTR games, i play them ONLY when its a Female prot.
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                     But like i usually say, a game is a game, and the taste is really personal.
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                     Since your post seemed directed at everybody...
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                        But you need to admit that your reasons for that are a lack of ability to immerse yourself in a particular character *snip*
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                     I don't want to immerse myself into a character being misused and mistreated. I happen to have only tried 1 or two 2 stories with female protagonists which were of the Lechertown variety and have neither the desire, no the patience to search for one that is actually well written and executed. Life's just too short.
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                     That being said, I'm happy with people playing and experiencing what they like and as Avaron1974 made clear, there should be games and VNs with female protags for the sheer sanity and pleasure for female players.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="takeshikovash · Oct 30, 2018 at 3:19 PM" data-lb-id="post-1232247">
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                     I totally agree with
                     <a class="username" data-user-id="38419" data-username="@LokiTime" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/38419/">
                      @LokiTime
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                     . I like a game if:
                     <br/>
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                        LokiTime said:
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                        1. You have choices 2. you can let you fantasy take the lead.
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                         Click to expand...
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                     .
                     <br/>
                     I prefer story-driven games (for the porno movie is the same :extremelyhappy
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     with multiple routes. The MC's sex doesn't matter.
                     <br/>
                     One of the best game here has a female MC: Good Girl Gone Bad. Fantastic. Where is the problem? It's a personal taste, a question of mindset.
                     <br/>
                     I like playing with "female lesbian" part of me :HeyGuys::extremelyhappy:
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="TheSexinati · Oct 30, 2018 at 3:20 PM" data-lb-id="post-1232251">
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                     I wouldn't say that I hate female protagonists, its just that most of the time I find myself disliking female protagonists, and not for the reason of their sex/gender.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I have found that a large proportion of female protagonists only exist within games, to get corrupted and/or raped by people/orcs/tentacles/beast/monster et cetera and then thrown away or bad-ended. I have no problem with a female character having sex with other people or monsters or orcs et cetera, Indeed I am a 'monster-phile' I suppose you could say. But I am
                     <i>
                      not
                     </i>
                     a big fan of corruption, or necessarily of bad-ends, much for the same reason in which the moment someone/some-monster sticks their dick inside of a female, they'll instantly lose their humanity or some such bullshit, which I find very, very fucking insulting for a large variety of reasons, but primarily because, while it isn't stating that women are 'mentally' or 'spiritually' weak and can be broken by a guy sticking his dick in her... It most certainly implies that women are 'mentally' or 'spiritually' weak, when they are 'mind broken' after one single event of rape. Which really, really pisses me off. People are stronger than that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     People really can be strong. Real humans certainly won't be 'mind-broken' by some fucking inbred country yokel just because he coincidentally sticks his dick into one of your orifices.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And that is why I find so many female protagonists to be dissapointing. It is not because women suck. It's because writers in general don't really care about their protagonists. They want their women-folk to be be fucked by undesirables, and so they make imbecilic female characters specifically designed for the purpose of being imbeciles who get taken advantage of by undesirables.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     On the other hand, I really enjoy female protagonists who are written by writers (Male or female), who are able to give their characters feelings, emotions and who make them generally capable of mentally and physically thinking and doing things for themselves like actual people, and not purpose-built fuck-puppets produced in their numbers by lackadaisical writers hoping to earn that 'sweet' patreon money.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And, when protagonists are shown to be doing things up to and including, deception, subterfuge and leading militarily-trained forces into battle, that is really my thing, in both Male and Female protagonists. (From this, I believe that many will assume that I am a fan of Fantasy settings, in which case you would be correct)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Win or lose, I have the intention of not getting my protagonists fucked by ridiculous morons, but when I happen to find some 'husbando' or 'waifu' material... then they shall be my target.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I would also write a large diatribe on my dislike of 'Male' protagonists, but this is a thread primarily concerned with 'Female' protagonists, and hence I have opted not to do so, as such a method of conversation would only run in a direction contrary to what the thread is titled.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
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                        forbidden101v said:
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                        This stuff only works in porn much like a rape victim instantly falling in love with their rapist with heart pupils.
                       </div>
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                         Click to expand...
                        </a>
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                     God I hate that shit. For so many reasons.
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                        The librarian character and the MC really feel like a lot of the authors politics are bleeding into the game too, and it's really awkward.
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                     Absolutely at least, with the MC. I didn't quite get that vibe with the Librarian, but that's because where I am on the left aligns with anti-censorship, I guess, and it never reached the point of what I would consider "convenient" anti-censorship opinions like the "I support your right to say whatever you want, even if that causes your followers to shoot up a pizzaria and stalk innocent families of school shooting victims."
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                        What did he say?
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                     He makes a lot of comments about women that paint his ideology firmly. How women are manipulative bitches and how he should only like dumb women and shit like that. It gets really annoying, but I also took it as a joke, figuring that even if it really was the guy's politics, he was creating a world that was not meant to be taken seriously, and was very obviously meant to be over the top.
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                        1. You have choices
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                     Yeah sure, suck this guy's dick for his bullshit unbelievable blackmail, or don't and have a game over.
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                        2. you can let you fantasy take the lead
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                     Again, nope, because the MC is commenting every 5 seconds about how she's being abused, but doesn't take any real steps to fix that situation.
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                        I don't want to immerse myself into a character being misused and mistreated.
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                     You obviously read my whole post, so you know that I ripped those games that don't give you agency in those situations a new asshole, what in gods name made you think this was a valid counterpoint to what I said?
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                        have neither the desire, no the patience to search for one that is actually well written and executed.
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                     Well it's your lucky day, there's a fucking list of them in the post you read and quoted but apparently you have no reading comprehension.
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                     Wow, Rude... I know why i did not take part of this kind of thread usually.
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                        You obviously read my whole post, so you know that I ripped those games that don't give you agency in those situations a new asshole, what in gods name made you think this was a valid counterpoint to what I said?
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                     Sorry, I should have taken into account that you're dealing with some... strange stuff here and might take that as attack on your post. It wasn't.
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                        Well it's your lucky day, there's a fucking list of them in the post you read and quoted but apparently you have no reading comprehension.
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                     Excuse me? There's life, regular and adult games. If I prefer to not spend my time on finding out which of those games you listed might be interesting, I consider that a choice rather then a lack of reading comprehension, thank you very much.
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                        Excuse me? There's life, regular and adult games. If I not prefer to not spend my time on finding out which of those games you listed might be interesting, I consider that a choice rather then a lack of reading comprehension, thank you very much.
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                     "to search for" you needn't search for. Now sure, you may still decide your time is better spent elsewhere, but your response did not indicate that, it indicated an emotional response. Furthermore, as I elaborated on the Coming of Age theme in the majority of them, if your problem is really as you say, that you don't like being misused and mistreated, then I'm sure you'll find you don't even have to "search to see which ones you won't like" as I narrowed it down for you.
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                     As I said in my post, you don't have to like Female Protagonists, but you have to accept that your reason is that you have only played shit games. The other two things I said were given an "and/or" to imply that it's possible you only met one of the criteria. You responded as if taking offense. I merely responded tersely to dismantle your weak justifications for that offense.
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                        "to search for" you needn't search for. Now sure, you may still decide your time is better spent elsewhere, but your response did not indicate that, it indicated an emotional response. Furthermore, as I elaborated on the Coming of Age theme in the majority of them, if your problem is really as you say, that you don't like being misused and mistreated, then I'm sure you'll find you don't even have to "search to see which ones you won't like" as I narrowed it down for you.
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                        As I said in my post, you don't have to like Female Protagonists, but you have to accept that your reason is that you have only played shit games. The other two things I said were given an "and/or" to imply that it's possible you only met one of the criteria. You responded as if taking offense. I merely responded tersely to dismantle your weak justifications for that offense.
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                     At this point you are talking to yourself. Next you'd be painting a psychic profile of me out of those few lines I've written... No thanks, I'm out of this thread. Have fun.
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                        Social constructs of masculine dominance and patriarchal power came after nature was done. They are just that though, constructs. We are all slaves to social constructs.
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                     I agree with this, but I have to say that the way you are responding to these social constructs is also a bit... how to put it... rebellious. I think that rebelling against such social constructs doesn't make that much sense, because we are what we are: a product of our personal upbringing as well as of the general culture we live in.
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                     Case in point: this thread. We have an OP who comes from a very different culture (India) than myself (Northern Europe). I suspect we also have a couple of liberal Americans in this thread. This very thing makes any argument about this quite difficult.
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                     Sure we can disagree with our own culture and either physically move to another country where there might be another prevalent culture which we could identify more with, or rebel against our own culture in some way or another and try to change our own culture in whatever small way we can. For sure, Western / European sexual culture changed a lot over the last 60 years, from very stringent in the 40's and 50's to very open in the 60's and 70's and then with a few smaller countermovements in the 80's and 90's respectively until the place where we are now.
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                     Personally I'm a let-and-let-live kinda guy and I don't really care what anybody does in his bedroom or what kind of games she/he is playing on his/her private computer. In my private life, I am much more on the stringent end of the spectrum (i.e. hetero sex inside marriage) than on the open end, because I think that only confuses people. But each to his own...
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                     And finally the advantage of these games is that you can, in a way, experience many different things, without actually risking something that is important to you. You can experience incest without having to live to awkward Christmas dinners for the rest of your life and you can experience cuckolding without actually ending up with another man's child. If something is really not your thing, everybody is free to not play any game or not watch any kind of porn.
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                        I think that rebelling against such social constructs doesn't make that much sense, because we are what we are: a product of our personal upbringing as well as of the general culture we live in.
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                     The problem is that this form of construct isn't about culture, it's about control. Until we have more lateral systems, such controls act to marginalize and divide. In the end your idea of live and let live is the correct position. I have nothing against a person who of their own volition chooses a long term monogamy. I simply reject the systemic position that it is right or "natural".
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                     Unfortunately I have the feeling that this is not how most people / "society" works: you do have to conform, at least to certain extent.
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                     For example, in my country, people are very tolerant about gay people. So much so, that you are not allowed to even start to argue the position that a gay lifestyle is not always the best solution in a specific situation. No, our society says "gay = ok". End of story. Anybody who wants to argue that is a fascist / bigot / religious nutcase.
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                        Unfortunately I have the feeling that this is not how most people / "society" works: you do have to conform, at least to certain extent.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        For example, in my country, people are very tolerant about gay people. So much so, that you are not allowed to even start to argue the position that a gay lifestyle is not always the best solution in a specific situation. No, our society says "gay = ok". End of story. Anybody who wants to argue that is a fascist / bigot / religious nutcase.
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                     Your sentence ending in "solution in a specific situation" implies there's more to it than just gay, but rather a situation wherein x person is hurt by y person and so is only going to date other x people now, or something like that. As a pansexual I'll be the first to say that those people aren't necessarily doing the most healthy thing. But, overall, yeah, Gay is OK.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I think it's important to be critical minded at all times. Never just accept anything as right because society says it is. Similarly, I support trans people, but don't support the gender movement trying to enforce 73 different genders on us, how about we just accept that being born male or female doesn't mean you have to behave in a particular way? I also do think that anyone looking to get an operation should need to see a therapist with a doctorate. Not so that the therapist can convince them against it, but so that they can be sure before they make the decision. The fact is, gender dysphoria isn't always solved by a surgery, and the depression and other problems that surround the condition can make things as dangerous if not worse post transition than they were before.
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                     A good example of how I feel about things is thus, I'm anti-theist, I don't think religion is the answer, regardless of the good it does. However, in spite of my strong beliefs on the subject, I will never hold it against a consenting adult who chooses religion. Some of my best friends are Muslim and Christian. Some of the people I respect highly are Jewish. I don't blame individuals for the problems caused by systems. We are all just trying to live our lives.
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                        People tend to get angry when someone challenges their sexual preference. I mean I wouldn't like it if someone came up to me and was like hey "I'll just wait for you to become gay". I would think they are delusional tbh. This stuff only works in porn
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                     This is one thing that does make me angry and that's because it isn't limited to games. There are men around that believe all lesbians are just waiting for the right cock to come along and "fix" us. It's like they think we woke up one morning and thought to ourselves, you know what, there isn't a good enough cock around here so i'm going to eat pussy until a better one comes along.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I've got no doubt that there are women who claim to be lesbian and then sleep with men. Some of those were straight women that got hurt and decided women were the better option then moved back over, those were never lexbian to start with. Then you have those that like both, those are bisexual. There are even lesbians that do wonder what a cock would be like, some of those are bi curious and try it some don't.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Then you have those of us that have never, not once, questioned our own sexual preference and have no interest in men sexually or romantically. I'm not an SJW nor do I hate men, I just don't want to sleep with them. I don't like cocks, none of my toys resemble a cock in any way.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I don't hate men because I know those are only a minority and hating all men over a few idiots would be ridiculous. That would be like hating all religious people after the crazy shouty man in town told me and my girl we'll burn in hell for our filthy choices. Sure, there are crazy zealots out there but the rest either tolerate or ignore us enough to live and let live.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some men have the fantasy of sleeping with 2 women and me and my girl get propositioned quite a bit when we go on a night out. I will admit I don't hate it, it's kinda flattering, we do like to be told we're attractive every once in a while. It's never going to happen but it's nice to feel that we're approachable enough for people to be comfortable enough to ask.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yeah, the only ones that really anger me are those that think we're gay while we waited for them to turn up. That takes a special kind of arrogance.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I really need to stop these long rambles.
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                        Avaron1974 said:
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                        This is one thing that does make me angry and that's because it isn't limited to games. There are men around that believe all lesbians are just waiting for the right cock to come along and "fix" us. It's like they think we woke up one morning and thought to ourselves, you know what, there isn't a good enough cock around here so i'm going to eat pussy until a better one comes along.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I've got no doubt that there are women who claim to be lesbian and then sleep with men. Some of those were straight women that got hurt and decided women were the better option then moved back over, those were never lexbian to start with. Then you have those that like both, those are bisexual. There are even lesbians that do wonder what a cock would be like, some of those are bi curious and try it some don't.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Then you have those of us that have never, not once, questioned our own sexual preference and have no interest in men sexually or romantically. I'm not an SJW nor do I hate men, I just don't want to sleep with them. I don't like cocks, none of my toys resemble a cock in any way.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I don't hate men because I know those are only a minority and hating all men over a few idiots would be ridiculous. That would be like hating all religious people after the crazy shouty man in town told me and my girl we'll burn in hell for our filthy choices. Sure, there are crazy zealots out there but the rest either tolerate or ignore us enough to live and let live.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Some men have the fantasy of sleeping with 2 women and me and my girl get propositioned quite a bit when we go on a night out. I will admit I don't hate it, it's kinda flattering, we do like to be told we're attractive every once in a while. It's never going to happen but it's nice to feel that we're approachable enough for people to be comfortable enough to ask.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Yeah, the only ones that really anger me are those that think we're gay while we waited for them to turn up. That takes a special kind of arrogance.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        I really need to stop these long rambles.
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                     Yeah. I recommend rambling over something that you love to death rather than something that just puts you in a bad mood. Shipping characters together is my thing and how they are MEANT TO BE TOGETHER. Like Raven and Kat from the Gravity Rush series. Raven is the dominant one in the relationship. She has the attitude and she seems stronger than Kat. I mean how could you not love this?
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                     So like said example above though it's a pretty small ramble.
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                    <time class="u-dt" data-date-string="Oct 30, 2018" data-time="1540901401" data-time-string="8:10 PM" datetime="2018-10-30T20:10:01+0800" dir="auto" title="Oct 30, 2018 at 8:10 PM">
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Retro · Oct 30, 2018 at 8:10 PM" data-lb-id="post-1232733">
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                         "I feel like I'm too protective/I don't like corruption/I try not to have sex":
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                             These are 3 different comments, made by 3 different people, and for different reasons, but I think they all touch on the same issue. Poorly written Female Protagonist games. The concept of the Retard in Lechertown is mentioned a couple times in this thread already, but people need to understand from why exactly it's such a bad trope.
                             <br/>
                             Narratively, it is a system that relies on antagonists who are completely irredeemable as people and worse with plans so fucktarded that they require protagonists who are too stupid to fight their way out of a paper bag. Cheap poorly thought out blackmail and coercion paired with women who don't realize that they exist in a world where everyone, and I mean everyone, is a rapist.
                             <br/>
                             Lack of agency. As the player in these games you obviously have a goal in mind, sexual content. However, the game is designed with the retarded protagonist in mind, and her desire not to get raped is the whole focus. You have no choice to make her be the type of person who doesn't like it, but also knows it's easier not to fight, nor do you have the choice to make her want it, to make her the type of girl who fantasizes about getting cornered in a dark alley, or blackmailed by her disgusting pig of a boss. Nor do you have the choice to get the police involved and try to deal with the consequences.
                             <br/>
                             Perversion of the stairway to heaven. You see, the real reason these games do the narrative and agency issue is that they think that if there's not a subtle slow progression to the game, if they aren't slowly building up the eroticism from light touches up until it's slutty conclusion, then you aren't going to be interested. They flip the stairway to heaven on its head, changing it from a mating ritual in which we slowly familiarize ourselves with a potential partner, and turning it into a system to drag out the inevitable. Instead of each step up being a victory, it's a defeat, the MC losing a part of their soul and their willpower to fight. At each level something more depraved opens up and our MC is subjected to worse and worse.
                             <br/>
                             If the reasons you don't like corruption, that you feel the need to protect your MC, or that you try not to have sex, have anything to do with the entire plot revolving around this shitty mechanic, then your problem isn't female protagonists, it's shitty writing. Corruption, in reality, is not something you can do to the unwilling. If you blackmail, coerce, or kidnap and rape a person into submission you aren't corrupting them, you're making their instincts learn how to survive in the situation they're forced into. If they ever get out of that situation they may still have some of the institutionalized conditioning, but they aren't going to be "corrupted". They aren't going to be sluts who seek pain for the sake of pleasure or slaves to a lust that you woke up inside of them. They're going to be in therapy with PTSD and watching around every corner, their chances of being a victim of more sexual violence go up as their conditioning has turned them into a victim. They aren't corrupt, they're damaged. It's poor writing because these people don't understand what they're doing.
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                        In the end, you don't have to enjoy playing a female protagonist. But you need to admit that your reasons for that are a lack of ability to immerse yourself in a particular character, a lack of appreciation or respect for women, and/or a lack of having played games that are well written.
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                     well said
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                        Chloe18 (and sequels)
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                        I really need to stop these long rambles.
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                     I have to admit, though my words might not weight very much, that I do like what you have said. In my opinion, you can make as many long rambles as you need.
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                     Of course, I say this as something of a 'rambler' myself. Sometimes, It's good to let it 'out' of your system. Other times, not so much.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Red_Line · Oct 30, 2018 at 9:03 PM" data-lb-id="post-1232862">
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                        As to myself, I'm polyamorous. I don't believe in monogamy. I have very few examples that I can point to of "true love" and see clearly that monogamy is a tool of the state to keep us in easily controllable groups.
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                     Could you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested in this point of view.
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                     I like playing a female protag as long as its not railroaded. If the games linear as heck and she's just gonna be an idiot or get raped back to back I may as well watch porn. Rather I like games like "Virgin Island", "Sacred Eyes", "Runes Pharmacy" etc. These games have good leads and you can do a virgin run or lose it along the way, it lets your story be different each run if you want to. (Easier to do if the play threw is blind)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     NTR, its a fetish some people have it some don't. We all know what it is so its fine to use NTR as a term. I as a man IRL like a loyal 1-on-1 partnership and will protect my partner from other suitors, not everyone monogamous to each there own.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In a game I don't have a fetish for NTR, I don't seek it. But it wont ruin a game for me unless it hurts a character I like, and even better if its to a character I hate such as the cookie cutter male leads then I will do all I can to cuck his bland ass hard.
                     <br/>
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                     Lastly, sex happens and there are billions of people on the planet all doing their own things living their own life. If your in a liberated more open society then odds are your girlfriend or wife had sex with someone who isn't you and you had sex with someone who isn't her.
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                     If you and your partner/partners decide to commit then don't backstab them.
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                     wtf with this thread moving from angry war between (
                     <span style="color: #ffffff">
                      male protagonist
                     </span>
                     <i>
                      <b>
                       vs
                      </b>
                     </i>
                     female protagonist )
                     <br/>
                     to make a war about (ntr lovers
                     <i>
                      <b>
                       VS
                      </b>
                     </i>
                     ntr haters)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i have about more than 4 uncompleted games because this stupid fetish(NTR)
                     <br/>
                     why didn't the developer  make it avoidable and  just save us all
                     <br/>
                     this way we all win
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and stop insulting other cultures (every single country contain different culture)
                     <br/>
                     and this forum collecting peoples from all over the world
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                        having sex without love is just meaningless and empty
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                    <br/>
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                     <b>
                      <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                       (only interested in male protagonist games
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">
                       without
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">
                       NTR
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(247, 218, 100)">
                       /
                      </span>
                      <span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">
                       cuckold
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                       )
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                    <br/>
                    <span style="font-size: 12px">
                     <b>
                      <u>
                       my favorite games
                      </u>
                     </b>
                     <br/>
                     (1)- my girlfriend amnesia   ( 2)- incest story 1-2   (3)- dreams of desires
                     <br/>
                     (4)- my new roommate          (5)- hack'n stalk 1-2   (6)- play with us 2
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                     #66
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="fitboy · Oct 30, 2018 at 10:23 PM" data-lb-id="post-1233062">
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                        wtf with this thread moving from angry war between (
                        <span style="color: #ffffff">
                         male protagonist
                        </span>
                        <i>
                         <b>
                          vs
                         </b>
                        </i>
                        female protagonist )
                        <br/>
                        to make a war about (ntr lovers
                        <i>
                         <b>
                          VS
                         </b>
                        </i>
                        ntr haters)
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        i have about more than 4 uncompleted games because this stupid fetish(NTR)
                        <br/>
                        why didn't the developer  make it avoidable and  just save us all
                        <br/>
                        this way we all win
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        and stop insulting other cultures (every single country contain different culture)
                        <br/>
                        and this forum collecting peoples from all over the world
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                     we already had a war before because this NTR shit
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     it's like yo don't have a penis and want to see her fucked by other person
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i think if i meet somebody who really like NTR he will allow me to fuck his girlfriend
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     let's hope we meet them in real life (not in games )
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                        we already had a war before because this NTR shit
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        it's like yo don't have a penis and want to see her fucked by other person
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        i think if i meet somebody who really like NTR he will allow me to fuck his girlfriend
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        let's hope we meet them in real life (not in games )
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                     I had originally intended to argue some of your points back at the beginning of the thread, but chose to continue reading and see where it went. Very happy I did so as a few key facts became obvious.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You are a sad, strange little man.
                     <br/>
                     If it weren't for the fact that I enjoy being an asshole once in a while, your posts would not be worth reading or replying to.
                     <br/>
                     Your mental faculties are rather limited, as is your ability to engage in abstract thought.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Off to see if there's a way to block someone's comments from showing up now.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     That is all. Farewell, and let the asshattery resume.
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                     If your not in a committed relationship with someone you have no right to be upset if they're off having sex even if you like them. If you like them start a relationship and establish that is monogamous.
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                     As for NTR, if you don't like it then avoid games and porn that have it. If a developer wants to put it in their game its their own choice, that can't be changed.
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                     *Slow claps for kieranmr*
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                        i think if i meet somebody who really like NTR he will allow me to fuck his girlfriend
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                        let's hope we meet them in real life (not in games )
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                     That's not how it works, dude. People can enjoy things in games and not like them IRL. The whole fucking point of games is to do shit you would/could not do in real life. It's escapism. Holy shit, I can't believe I had to explain that.
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                        we already had a war before because this NTR shit
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                        it's like yo don't have a penis and want to see her fucked by other person
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                        i think if i meet somebody who really like NTR he will allow me to fuck his girlfriend
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                        let's hope we meet them in real life (not in games )
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                     WHAT?
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                     Are you touched on the head or clear plainly incapable of understanding difference between fantasy and reality. I can't even process your logic anymore.
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                     I don't usually play female lead, the main reason being how they are made: in most cases, one way or another the female lead ends up with the shit end of the stick, she either has to submit to blackmail/rape or suffer the consequences . . . neither of which is very appealing. One of the main principles of gaming is that the player is rewarded for doing things the right way, or in a special way, and not be rewarded (with a sex scene) because the MC was defeated in battle or because she was forced into a situation (that also counts as losing IMO).
                     <br/>
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                     While there are surely people who enjoy these kinds of games, it's just not for me, so I move one.
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                     On the other hand, I find once in a while a game with enough elbow room to allow me to play as I want, and in such cases it's a good opportunity to play as a female. Games like Roundscape where as a rule the MC is actively going after sex and seducing people if I want (even if the player still has a chance of being a slutty sub) and bashing skulls of people who want to rape my girl.
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                        why don't you say that it's more popular because you switch from female protagonist to male protagonist ??
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                     Multiple protagonist, you still play as the female as well.
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                        why don't you even think about all kind of people (i mean you can make the NTR avoidable)
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                     First of all:
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                         <b>
                          Overview:
                         </b>
                         <br/>
                         The Things We Do For Love is a romance story that follows the characters Alexander and Alexis after the two of them are brought closer together after a traumatic experience. It will be up to you, the player, to decide how both Alexander and Alexis respond to this new closeness, whether they resist temptation or are driven by it, whether they give in to their personal fears and demons or triumph over them. You will be in control of both characters, which has the potential to lead to some interesting situations, as you can have one resisting while the other does not. Will this be a comedic and fun coupling? A tragic NTR tale? Or something more dramatic but also rewarding? It's up to you.​
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                     It is avoidable, however, the nature of choice, and having two protagonists is that NTR is something that can happen. Yet the comments in my thread aren't all hatred for NTR, in fact, a good majority of them are curious about what I mean, how it's going to come about. My highest tiered patron is someone who's first question is about just how heavy the NTR will be, because he's looking forward to it. NTR isn't the "niche" fetish that people like to think it is.
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                        the only thing you said and make me happy that you are right when i play a game i replace myself for the protagonist....i tried alot to just play without being in the game but i found that it's just like you are watching a movie (iam not playing games to just be a third part) i want to be the protagonist
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                     So do I. What you're failing to see is that you would be playing it wrong if you were a third party observer too, unless its a game like Vis Major, which actually makes you a third party. When you play Big Brother, for instance, you are supposed to BE Max. Not you as Max, not a 3rd party observer watching Max, you are Max. When you play Coceter Chronicles, you are Tabitha, not a guy observing Tabitha's life, not you, living Tabitha's life, you are Tabitha. This doesn't mean that you don't have choices that can make Tabitha behave in a way that you want, but her responses and thoughts in relation to those choices are still hers, they still fit her character, not me, not you.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     When you play The Witcher, you are Geralt of Rivia, not "fitboy". Yennifer and Trish couldn't give a shit about fitboy. Fitboy is no one. Geralt is a hot as fuck, silver fox covered in muscles and scars, a real fit man. He slays monsters and woos ladies. Fitboy is just some dude among 3.5 billion other dudes. The same goes for when you're playing any other game that doesn't literally make you into a self insert. If the character has no face, has no name, and has no personality, thoughts, history, then, and only then, are you supposed to be yourself in a game.
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                        so i stick with my opinion and i cannot accept NTR but what is the problem with making it optional
                        <br/>
                        is it that hard or just the developer has NTR fetish ??
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                     Well, are you still being stupid and using NTR to describe when a girl gets molested, because if so...
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                        kimoo said:
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                        i have about more than 4 uncompleted games because this stupid fetish(NTR)
                        <br/>
                        why didn't the developer make it avoidable and just save us all
                        <br/>
                        this way we all win
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        and stop insulting other cultures (every single country contain different culture)
                        <br/>
                        and this forum collecting peoples from all over the world
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                     The developer isn't making a game to please you specifically. The developer is making their game. Their idea. If you don't like their game and their idea, don't play it. Congrats.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     What do you mean by insulting culture? I made it pretty clear I'm not worried about your culture, I don't care what traditions you have or holidays you celebrate. I do care about social constructs enforced on and within cultures that limit the freedoms of people. Especially when that culture treats women as second class citizens.
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                        we already had a war before because this NTR shit
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        it's like yo don't have a penis and want to see her fucked by other person
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        i think if i meet somebody who really like NTR he will allow me to fuck his girlfriend
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        let's hope we meet them in real life (not in games )
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                     You're not talking about NTR, you're talking about Cuckoldry, what part of my explanation that NTR is about a betrayal of trust, a complete destruction of an established relationship, do you not understand?
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                        If your not in a committed relationship with someone you have no right to be upset if they're off having sex even if you like them. If you like them start a relationship and establish that is monogamous.
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                     Not entirely true. There are ways in which a sexual relationship between another person, whether you're into them or not, and a third party can lead to the destruction of whatever relationship you do have with that person, thereby being NTR. But, for the most part, when people scream NTR, they're just talking about a person who they are into having sex, not the destruction of the relationship as a result.
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                        Could you elaborate on this? I'm genuinely interested in this point of view.
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                     What about it? The dislike of monogomy, or what polyamory is like?
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                        What about it? The dislike of monogomy, or what polyamory is like?
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                     The dislike of monogamy. Specifically how it's a "tool of the state" as you put it.
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                        The dislike of monogamy. Specifically how it's a "tool of the state" as you put it.
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                     I throw my view in on it from what I gathered from the little I have studied it.  In my opinion it was a movement started by the church to keep from having bastard children being all over the place.  Women had little power and earning potential in those days and the church and feudal lords did not want to pay/help all of those children whose fathers were no longer around.  It was a religious tool that turned into a state tool when they outlawed  being married to more than one person when the power of the church waned. It's still that way today, at least where I live, the government doesn't want to pay for all the children running around without fathers.  Not all single mothers are on govt assistant, but there is quite a few that are.  It's one reason why child support laws have become so strict these days.
                     <br/>
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                     These days it has become more of a choice, you still can't marry more than one, but there is very little societal pressure for you to get married in the first place anymore ( at least where I live ).  I personally favor monogamy, but that is my choice, if adults agree not to be exclusive that's their decision, not mine.  It fundamental boils down to freedom of choice.  The government or church should not force or make decisions about your life that do not harm anyone else.
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                        The dislike of monogamy. Specifically how it's a "tool of the state" as you put it.
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                        I throw my view in on it from what I gathered from the little I have studied it.  In my opinion it was a movement started by the church to keep from having bastard children being all over the place.  Women had little power and earning potential in those days and the church and feudal lords did not want to pay/help all of those children whose fathers were no longer around.  It was a religious tool that turned into a state tool when they outlawed  being married to more than one person when the power of the church waned.
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                        These days it has become more of a choice, you still can't marry more than one, but there is very little societal pressure for you to get married in the first place anymore ( at least where I live ).  I personally favor monogamy, but that is my choice, if adults agree not to be exclusive that's their decision, not mine.  It fundamental boils down to freedom of choice.  The government or church should not force or make decisions about your life that do not harm anyone else.
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                     Wurg puts it pretty well on the basic idea of what initially turns me off. But going deeper, marriage is still a means of control. It is what you might call a societal norm that is enforced for the purpose of creating a cultivated identity. That cultivated identity is then used to tell you what you should buy, how you should behave, what you should wear, who you should be friends with, how you should handle work, that you should have kids, how you should vote, etc etc etc. And you bet your ass the government cares what you buy, how you work, whether or not you have kids, and what you wear. They work hand in hand with market leaders to determine what products are allowed to sell, how they're allowed to be marketed. When the government can't ban something, because it conflicts with a right, like free speech, they put pressure on the private sector to do it themselves. They help the diamond industry keep it's artificial scarcity. They allow home developers to take government funding and use it to build 70% luxury 30% affordable housing, allowing them to drive up the pricing, and of course, you as a married person need to buy a house.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And that's all before we get into how this puts a strain on a monogamous relationship. The expectations, especially of the financial variety, are ultimately what cause these relationships to fail. These people end up in a viscous cycle of doing what society expects of them and then waking up to realize they've done what other people wanted them to do for their whole lives and that they don't recognize themselves, or the people they married anymore. Some go through multiple marriages, just trying and failing. Others are lucky, it only takes 2, even fewer still make it all the way.
                     <br/>
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                     And then, you have a bit of my perspective. My mom and dad divorced when I was 12. And why? Well, they were pushed to get married, I was conceived before they were. My mom was still in high school. She didn't have a chance to actually live her own life before she was handed me as a responsibility, and my father as a partner for life. She went back to work a year after my little sister was born, and while she was working met a girl. They hit it off really well, and mom started to explore feelings she hadn't ever let happen before. They were having an affair, and my parents split. My mom wasn't allowed to get married until a few years ago. As a result of the lack of marriage in gay culture, it's naturally more polyamorous. Not all gay people are, in fact I know a lot really struggle with how difficult it is to have a monogamous relationship, but enough of it happens that I saw my mom go through several partners before settling on her current wife.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     She was happy, and more importantly, all that playing the field led to her finding out who she was and what she wanted. Sure, she ended up being the type to want to settle down with one person forever, but she was also raised to think that way in the first place. I want people to have the freedom to choose monogamy. But I don't want a society in which monogamy is used and abused by those with power. I think marriage would be a lot better if it was a personal ceremony, not one in which you have to register with the state.
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                        I think marriage would be a lot better if it was a personal ceremony, not one in which you have to register with the state.
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                     I agree with you except for that last part.  While for it considered to be a "legal" marriage you have to register with the state, you don't have to do this to be "married".  In all it's a state of mind, a piece of paper doesn't bind you to that person, your feelings toward them do.  The only benefit to being registered is certain benefits the govt grants you.  I've been divorced once and been single basically ever since, I will never get legally married again, I'll go through the ceremony but I will not sign a marriage license, I don't want or need the govt to facilitate my breakup if it ever happens again.
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                        wurg said:
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                        I throw my view in on it from what I gathered from the little I have studied it.  In my opinion it was a movement started by the church to keep from having bastard children being all over the place.  Women had little power and earning potential in those days and the church and feudal lords did not want to pay/help all of those children whose fathers were no longer around.  It was a religious tool that turned into a state tool when they outlawed  being married to more than one person when the power of the church waned.
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                     I think you need a history lesson... Badly...
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                     I'll try to keep it simple.
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                     The church (I assume you mean the Christian church) has been around for approx. 2000 years. That's approx. 1000 years before feudalism really took a hold in Europe.
                     <br/>
                     The Christian church takes many of it's teachings, some of them in a modified form, from the Old Testament, which is the basis for the Jewish faith. The Old Testament was created at various stages, the oldest parts are approx. 3500 years old, but based on tales that are, apparently, being handed down since the creation of mankind.
                     <br/>
                     Jesus Christ, the founder of the Christian church, was actually a pretty tolerant guy who explained that a lot of the laws contained in the Old Testament actually don't need to be followed exactly to the letter but rather should be followed to the spirit of the law.
                     <br/>
                     The first approx. 300 years of it's existence, the church was outlawed and heavily prosecuted, so it was hardly a "tool" for the state.
                     <br/>
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                     Edited to say: this is probably not the place to debate theology, but there were so many misconceptions in the paragraph that I quoted, I couldn't let it go. Please take it to PM if you have any questions or want to respond.
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                     There's male protagonists, and then there's female protagonists.
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                     But why not attack helicopter protagonists?
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                     Truly, that is the real question.
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                        But going deeper, marriage is still a means of control. It is what you might call a societal norm that is enforced for the purpose of creating a cultivated identity. That cultivated identity is then used to tell you what you should buy, how you should behave, what you should wear, who you should be friends with, how you should handle work, that you should have kids, how you should vote, etc etc etc
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                     You make it sound as if marriage is the same as a mortgage or a credit card.
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                     I guess it can be, but that certainly isn't the idea.
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                     In my opinion, the idea is that marriage is about two people committing themselves to each other, for better or worse. Sex and procreation is part of that, but mutual security and caring is certainly another part.
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                        I think marriage would be a lot better if it was a personal ceremony, not one in which you have to register with the state.
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                     This I fully agree with. And I believe this is also the way a marriage was intended originally. However we do live in an increasingly regulated and controlled world.
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                        I think you need a history lesson... Badly...
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                        I'll try to keep it simple.
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                        The church (I assume you mean the Christian church) has been around for approx. 2000 years. That's approx. 1000 years before feudalism really took a hold in Europe.
                        <br/>
                        The Christian church takes many of it's teachings, in a modified form, from the Old Testament, which is the basis for the Jewish faith. The Old Testament was created at various stages, the oldest parts are approx. 3500 years old, but based on tales that are, apparently, being handed down since the creation of mankind.
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                        Jesus Christ, the founder of the Christian church, was actually a pretty tolerant guy who explained that a lot of the laws contained in the Old Testament actually don't need to be followed exactly to the letter but rather should be followed to the spirit of the law.
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                        The first approx. 300 years of it's existence, the church was outlawed and heavily prosecuted, so it was hardly a "tool" for the state.
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                        Edited to say: this is probably not the place to debate theology, but there were so many misconceptions in the paragraph that I quoted, I couldn't let it go. Please take it to PM if you have any questions or want to respond.
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                     The feudal area I consider anything after the fall of the Roman Empire, around 400 AD.  While not widespread at that time the church had become the controlling power.  It time it spread throughout Europe and basically the law of the land.  The Church of England, if I remember right, basically sprang up from the fact that Henry VIII wanted to get divorced and according to the Catholic Church he couldn't.
                     <br/>
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                     Here in the States the bigamy law was passed in 1862, the power of the church had waned by this time and the state took over.  That is what I am talking about.
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                        This I fully agree with. And I believe this is also the way a marriage was intended originally. However we do live in an increasingly regulated and controlled world.
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                     The state involvement is what leads to this:
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                        You make it sound as if marriage is the same as a mortgage or a credit card.
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                        I guess it can be, but that certainly isn't the idea.
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                     You're right that it's not the idea, but a combination of the state, and our social structures pervert what marriage could be, into another contract with attached baggage that shouldn't be present.
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                        There's male protagonists, and then there's female protagonists.
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                        But why not attack helicopter protagonists?
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                        Truly, that is the real question.
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                     Because we all love attack helicopters, at least I never saw any complaints in this forum :closedtongue:
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                     Yeah, I never personally "got" marriage, despite everyone I know basically expecting me to be all gun-ho about the idea. Never understood the sentiment of "I love you so much that I'm going to get the government involved so that we're legally bound". I definitely agree with Thialf's sentiment when they say:
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                        In my opinion, the idea is that marriage is about two people committing themselves to each other, for better or worse. Sex and procreation is part of that, but mutual security and caring is certainly another part.
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                     The legal baggage is really what turns me off from it, since now if my partner and I file for divorce, it becomes this whole legal and financial ordeal for what amounts to breaking up. I understand how flattering it would be for someone to trust you so much, but like... why put so much faith in an emotion...?
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                     But yeah, I do agree with basically everything you wrote in your message.
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                     (as an aside: I never got why diamonds were so expensive. Their only interesting feature is that they're really hard, but that's it. I mean, carbon is damn abundant, and diamonds are too, specifically in space [like how it rains diamonds sideways on various gas giants at speeds rivaling race cars.], so it's interesting to get an idea why. Also... I mean there just so many other choices for cystals if you really want to get one.)
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                        4humors said:
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                        (as an aside: I never got why diamonds were so expensive. Their only interesting feature is that they're really hard, but that's it. I mean, carbon is damn abundant, and diamonds are too, specifically in space [like how it rains diamonds sideways on various gas giants at speeds rivaling race cars.], so it's interesting to get an idea why. Also... I mean there just so many other choices for cystals if you really want to get one.)
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                     Artificial Scarcity
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                     CHARACTER DEPTH MATTERS!!!
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                      The Things We Do For Love
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                     is still on hold,
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                      Patreon
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                     here.
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                        Because we all love attack helicopters, at least I never saw any complaints in this forum :closedtongue:
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                     Oh the renders...
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                     I can only imagine the sheer beauty...
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                        Multiple protagonist, you still play as the female as well.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        First of all:
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        It is avoidable, however, the nature of choice, and having two protagonists is that NTR is something that can happen. Yet the comments in my thread aren't all hatred for NTR, in fact, a good majority of them are curious about what I mean, how it's going to come about. My highest tiered patron is someone who's first question is about just how heavy the NTR will be, because he's looking forward to it. NTR isn't the "niche" fetish that people like to think it is.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        So do I. What you're failing to see is that you would be playing it wrong if you were a third party observer too, unless its a game like Vis Major, which actually makes you a third party. When you play Big Brother, for instance, you are supposed to BE Max. Not you as Max, not a 3rd party observer watching Max, you are Max. When you play Coceter Chronicles, you are Tabitha, not a guy observing Tabitha's life, not you, living Tabitha's life, you are Tabitha. This doesn't mean that you don't have choices that can make Tabitha behave in a way that you want, but her responses and thoughts in relation to those choices are still hers, they still fit her character, not me, not you.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        When you play The Witcher, you are Geralt of Rivia, not "fitboy". Yennifer and Trish couldn't give a shit about fitboy. Fitboy is no one. Geralt is a hot as fuck, silver fox covered in muscles and scars, a real fit man. He slays monsters and woos ladies. Fitboy is just some dude among 3.5 billion other dudes. The same goes for when you're playing any other game that doesn't literally make you into a self insert. If the character has no face, has no name, and has no personality, thoughts, history, then, and only then, are you supposed to be yourself in a game.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Well, are you still being stupid and using NTR to describe when a girl gets molested, because if so...
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The developer isn't making a game to please you specifically. The developer is making their game. Their idea. If you don't like their game and their idea, don't play it. Congrats.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        What do you mean by insulting culture? I made it pretty clear I'm not worried about your culture, I don't care what traditions you have or holidays you celebrate. I do care about social constructs enforced on and within cultures that limit the freedoms of people. Especially when that culture treats women as second class citizens.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        You're not talking about NTR, you're talking about Cuckoldry, what part of my explanation that NTR is about a betrayal of trust, a complete destruction of an established relationship, do you not understand?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Not entirely true. There are ways in which a sexual relationship between another person, whether you're into them or not, and a third party can lead to the destruction of whatever relationship you do have with that person, thereby being NTR. But, for the most part, when people scream NTR, they're just talking about a person who they are into having sex, not the destruction of the relationship as a result.
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                     okay multiple protagonist that's why it's more popular
                     <br/>
                     i don't think there is any 3D adult game here with multiple protagonist
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i will give you example(the developer danil K) he developed
                     <br/>
                     -my girlfriend amnesia ....1 million view and more popular
                     <br/>
                     -zoe's temptation.....300.000 view only and it's older than the previous one
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     and the two of them contain the same amout of content
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i remember that i checked your game(the multiple protagonist not the female one) before but when i saw complaining about NTR i though it's not avoidable
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     so you understood that i like putting myself in the protagonist place
                     <br/>
                     can you tell me about your game ??? can i play with the male protagonist only i mean skipping the female protagonist part
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i cannot put myself in the game when i have to play with the two of them and make decisions for the two of them
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     i will tell you my experience with a game maybe you know my problem
                     <br/>
                     there is a game called i love daddy
                     <br/>
                     (because as i  told you i like romance adult game that focus only on two person)
                     <br/>
                     i tried this game and it was my first female protagonist game ever
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     but after i found that i cannot put myself in the place of the dad
                     <br/>
                     so i should put myself in the place of daughter ???
                     <br/>
                     i couldn't stand it and i deleted the game
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     if the game was opposite iam the dad and she is the daughter
                     <br/>
                     or i can control the dad not the daughter
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     my mind would have accepted it ....
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     so how am i supposed to get in the character like that
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                        i don't think there is any 3D adult game here with multiple protagonist
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                     At least 35 of them, not counting games that have the female and male protagonist tags, but not the multiple protagonist tag.
                     <br/>
                     But that's pure speculation on your part, and ignores all the positive feedback I've received from people who really want to see the NTR content, whereas most of the feedback about the multiple protagonist thing has been that it's confusing to know who's perspective they are supposed to see something from.
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                        i will give you example(the developer danil K) he developed
                        <br/>
                        -my girlfriend amnesia ....1 million view and more popular
                        <br/>
                        -zoe's temptation.....300.000 view only and it's older than the previous one
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                     So you're telling me the female protag game had less views than the game with NTR? I thought this was supposed to go against my point.
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                        so i should put myself in the place of daughter ???
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                     No, you shouldn't put yourself anywhere, when you're playing a game, especially a game where the character isn't your gender you are them, not they are you.
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                     Honestly, you'd be a better person for it. Experiencing things that are outside your norm, having a perspective that isn't your own, it's healthy, even aspirational. Are you afraid it will make you gay if you understand how she feels?
                     <br/>
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                     I LOVE the game I Love Daddy, it's one of the best written games I've played, plenty of fun. All you have to do to enjoy it is be wiling to set yourself aside and experience someone else's perspective. Not as a 3rd party observer, but as her.
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                        so how am i supposed to get in the character like that
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                     By letting yourself go, and adopting them. The protagonist of I Love Daddy isn't fitboy, it's, well I named her Alexis, because I really like that name. In that game I, as Alexis, got to experience so many different things. A hot lesbian relationship with my best friend, Cath. A taboo love for my father, a man who I don't find attractive myself, but who Alexis did, and for reasons I could understand. I, as Alexis had one route where I fought my mother for him, plenty where we shared him, and each other. He got me pregnant, I became a doctor, I became addicted to cum needing it all the time, I uncovered a secret about my extended family, my Grandmother was able to control people with her anger, apparently I had that power too, only it came from my lust. I'd been using it my whole life and I didn't know it, my friend Cath was the first victim. Depending on my choices throughout the game, I might choose to leave my family so that they can live a happy life. I might choose to try and dominate my grandma, allowing us to live without fear of her, and if I didn't make the right choices, the power inside me might backfire, and I'd be the one to go, giving them peace in that way. Or, maybe my dad might have gotten caught in the events leading to it, and the result would be my secret being kept from grandma entirely, but myself and cath becoming perfect soldiers for the mafia type family my grandma ran.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It's a great story, all because I submitted myself to becoming Alexis. I didn't come out of it wanting to fuck a big muscly dude, or wanting to be bukkaked. I just enjoyed an experience outside my own. Stop putting yourself in and start playing it through the characters eyes, even when you're playing a male character. That's the way the game is meant to be played.
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                     I tend to love games where I am playing as a male caracter. When it is a female, I go for ultimate eyecandy but my gameplay does not change, I always play to the best of my abilities. For example I never played a male caracter in mmos ever. Mass Effect, Dead Space, Dragon Age trilogy, Arkham games, Deus Ex, GTA and even tabletop D&amp;D. I love all of them and even though I do not get to CHOOSE to be a male in all of them, I love them as they are. Funny how I can't say the same about Bethesda titles, there all my caracters turn out to be eyecandy sluts
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                        I tend to love games where I am playing as a male caracter. When it is a female, I go for ultimate eyecandy but my gameplay does not change, I always play to the best of my abilities. For example I never played a male caracter in mmos ever. Mass Effect, Dead Space, Dragon Age trilogy, Arkham games, Deus Ex, GTA and even tabletop D&amp;D. I love all of them and even though I do not get to CHOOSE to be a male in all of them, I love them as they are. Funny how I can't say the same about Bethesda titles, there all my caracters turn out to be eyecandy sluts
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     I must be one of the only weird guy's who makes my characters look realistic.
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                     I once made a Russian Shephard, but I wanted the new character to look real, so I started looking up through 'hundreds' of images of Russian men trying to get the facial features right. He actually ended up looking like a real person... I wish I still had the save because the face was amazing.
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                     I then made 'Fuck-off' Shephard, a female Shephard with a face that I based off of Kurdish female fighters. It took me about 1 to 1.5 hours in order to get the face right, after spending maybe 30 minutes looking at the facial features on the internet.
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                     My only wish was for there to be actual beards in Mass Effect. I want beards, not stubble! :disappointed:
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                     I don't get how people are able to self-insert in most porn games. With male MC games you mostly get to play as unbearable little shitheads, who have established backstories and relationships and walk on a pretty rigid path during the duration of the game, with a relatively small number of decisions to alter this path. VN's aren't D&amp;D style RPGs in which you get a blank slate character that you can completely mold after your own image, they are, by definition, novels. And with a novel you will always stay a reader, not an actor. Sure, if the writing is good there can be a certain level of immersion, but self-insertion? Has anyone read Lord of the Rings and self-inserted as Frodo? The reader probably starts rooting for Frodo, as if he was a real person, but that's about it.
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                     And yeah, you get to do decisions in VN's, but those are really only an illusion of agency, since they are very limited and only unlock a different story path written by the author. What if you play an Elder Scrolls game, get into a town and you are presented with only three options, "go to the inn", "go to the mage's guild", "leave the town"? "But I want to kill and rob that Altmer standing at the town square" you say? Well, too fucking bad, Todd Howard has only pre-rendered those 3 scenes, so that is what you get. Not really "choose your own adventure", right?
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                     So yeah, story and immersion-wise it doesn't really matter what gender or appearance your MC has, as long as he/she/it is well written.
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                     The gender only is important for the kink. When you're f.e. into the "classic" NTR you get in japanese stories (think Sanbun Kyoden stuff), following the wife or girlfriend down her path of corruption, a female MC is important. With a male MC you tend to get what alot of westerners interpret NTR exclusively as, that being cuckolding, meaning the focus is on the cuck and his humiliation.
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                        The legal baggage is really what turns me off from it, since now if my partner and I file for divorce, it becomes this whole legal and financial ordeal for what amounts to breaking up. I understand how flattering it would be for someone to trust you so much, but like... why put so much faith in an emotion...
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                     Because I think that marriage is not an emotion.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Compare it to parenthood:
                     <br/>
                     You have kids.
                     <br/>
                     They are your responsibility.
                     <br/>
                     You may love them, find them bothersome or even hate them, they are still your responsibility, at least until they turn 18 but very likely the rest of your life.
                     <br/>
                     Because they are your children, nothing else.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The difference between marriage and parenthood is you don't have a blood relation to your wife/husband (this is not the incest thread, right??) but ideally, the concept is the same. It's a promise (or contract if you will) to help each other for the rest of your life.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In my opinion, in the last 50(?) years, we have however hollowed-out the concept of marriage as a life-long commitment.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Nowadays, people get married at 30-40 (sometimes after living together for 10 years) and divorce for a multitude of reasons at 40-50, remarry, etc. There is no commitment there, only emotion.
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                        Because I think that marriage is not an emotion.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Compare it to parenthood:
                        <br/>
                        You have kids.
                        <br/>
                        They are your responsibility.
                        <br/>
                        You may love them, find them bothersome or even hate them, they are still your responsibility, at least until they turn 18 but very likely the rest of your life.
                        <br/>
                        Because they are your children, nothing else.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        The difference between marriage and parenthood is you don't have a blood relation to your wife/husband (this is not the incest thread, right??) but ideally, the concept is the same. It's a promise (or contract if you will) to help each other for the rest of your life.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In my opinion, in the last 50(?) years, we have however hollowed-out the concept of marriage as a life-long commitment.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Nowadays, people get married at 30-40 (sometimes after living together for 10 years) and divorce for a multitude of reasons at 40-50, remarry, etc. There is no commitment there, only emotion.
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                     Divorce is mostly caused by money problems, money problems that are outside the control of the people involved. Its the system that creates those problems that is responsible for the destruction of marriage. It's too big of a commitment to make.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Now, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people who go into marriage for the wrong reasons, but I also think that marriage has been used for the wrong reasons for millennia. Marriage for alliances and money and cultures that treat wives as property. In the west we've come a long way, almost no marriages are arranged, at least for those of us who are not still immersed in another culture, like indians or muslims living in western countries. However, there are still people with wealth who marry for more wealth, or to strengthen their connections. I'm certain Ivanka and her husband Jared are an example of that. There is mail order bride shit going on still, there are women who marry for money, there are men who marry just for a trophy. It's bad, and it's always been bad.
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                     Most of Males want to Roleplay a Male. Its the same reason I only play Males in Skyrim other other immersive RPGs. Its just really weird/hard to roleplay a Female as a Male.
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                     I tried "A Wife and Mother" and it was a decent Game but it was like I was watching a Diashow and in my Mind I was always trying to be one of the Male Guys. Its just a completely different Experience.
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                        Most of Males want to Roleplay a Male. Its the same reason I only play Males in Skyrim other other immersive RPGs. Its just really weird/hard to roleplay a Female as a Male.
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                     Not really, in fact, in Skyrim I'm far more likely to roleplay as a girl because it's not something I get to experience.
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                     For most forms of entertainment it doesn't matter to me whether the main character is a male or a female because I feel like more of a spectator or a puppetmaster rather than imagining myself in the MC's place.  For sex scenes it's different.  For any sex scene that I'm really into I'm going to want to try and imagine myself in the scene and that just doesn't work for a female MC.  I can still play a female MC but there's not the same sort of connection that there would be playing a male MC.
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                     I don't put myself in the main characters place much. Mostly I'm that lil voice in their head guiding them. But I can do get in their shoes if I wish to. I just go, this is my life now and bam suddenly I'm that poor lil adventurer in the cave of rape bears or that annoying boy needing to care for his wheel chaired father. It can be interesting to be more empathetic with your character but from my experience its not something you should try for every game. Only if you got a very flexible and open mind.
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                        Most of Males want to Roleplay a Male. Its the same reason I only play Males in Skyrim other other immersive RPGs. Its just really weird/hard to roleplay a Female as a Male.
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                        I tried "A Wife and Mother" and it was a decent Game but it was like I was watching a Diashow and in my Mind I was always trying to be one of the Male Guys. Its just a completely different Experience.
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                     that's what iam talking about
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                     you are just like me
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                        that's what iam talking about
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                     No, because unlike you, he finds himself able to play it.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="fitboy · Nov 1, 2018 at 3:37 PM" data-lb-id="post-1238463">
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                        No, because unlike you, he finds himself able to play it.
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                     yes maybe you are right at this point
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