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   Why so many asshole males in these games? | F95zone
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                     It seems to me that in the vast majority of porn games, male characters, either as PC or as major characters, are absolute assholes.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     They:
                     <br/>
                     - Rape
                     <br/>
                     - Abuse
                     <br/>
                     - Blackmail
                     <br/>
                     - Cheat
                     <br/>
                     etc.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     At best, they are just opportunists (Dreaming of Dana), at worst, they are borderline criminals (Big Brother).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Why are there not more games with nice / normal male characters?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In quite a lot of games, I kinda feel sorry for the girls that the MC is fucking...
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                        It seems to me that in the vast majority of porn games, male characters, either as PC or as major characters, are absolute assholes.
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                        They:
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                        - Rape
                        <br/>
                        - Abuse
                        <br/>
                        - Blackmail
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                        - Cheat
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                        etc.
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                        At best, they are just opportunists (Dreaming of Dana), at worst, they are borderline criminals (Big Brother).
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                        Why are there not more games with nice / normal male characters?
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                        In quite a lot of games, I kinda feel sorry for the girls that the MC is fucking...
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                     The nature of fantasy is being able to experience the things that you can't normally do in polite society. most people in their right mind wont rape, abuse, blackmail, or to a lesser extent cheat others. but that dosen't mean that people dont have an interest in what it would be like to some level. on the other hand not many people fantasize about being a nice normal human being cause for the most part they believe themselves to already be one.  That is probably why these games tend to be more about the darker sides of life or the taboo.  just my opinion though
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                    Wife Trainer -
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                     Some of the family members too in these games. Especially Big Brother.
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                        The nature of fantasy is being able to experience the things that you can't normally do in polite society. most people in their right mind wont rape, abuse, blackmail, or to a lesser extent cheat others. but that dosen't mean that people dont have an interest in what it would be like to some level. on the other hand not many people fantasize about being a nice normal human being cause for the most part they believe themselves to already be one.  That is probably why these games tend to be more about the darker sides of life or the taboo.  just my opinion though
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                        Some of the family members too in these games. Especially Big Brother.
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                     This.
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                     Especially those Eric like pixels   fuck those pixels
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                     Most men in porn-games are retarded alpha-males who's only reason of existing is to fuck and abuse as many hot women as possible. Most woman in porn games are gigantic sluts who's only reason of existing is to have sex and be abused by men. I believe this happens because it is a lot easier (and thus less time and money consuming) to write bland characters than more realistic ones. It is still a shame though, I find many games unplayable because of this bad writing.
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                        Most men in porn-games are retarded alpha-males who's only reason of existing is to fuck and abuse as many hot women as possible. Most woman in porn games are gigantic sluts who's only reason of existing is to have sex and be abused by men. I believe this happens because it is a lot easier (and thus less time and money consuming) to write bland characters than more realistic ones. It is still a shame though, I find many games unplayable because of this bad writing.
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                     i may be a little biased in this recommendation but have you tried wife trainer?  there is a lot of variety to the character types. and you have some control over the type of person you are and they become..
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                        i may be a little biased in this recommendation but have you tried wife trainer?  there is a lot of variety to the character types. and you have some control over the type of person you are and they become..
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                     I have not tried that one yet, thanks for the recommendation!
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                        The nature of fantasy is being able to experience the things that you can't normally do in polite society.
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                     That's one way of looking at it, and I don't necessarily disagree.
                     <br/>
                     On the other hand, it is also interesting to put a "normal" person in an abnormal situation.
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                     In general, for instance in games like Fallout, I like to play as "myself", making choices that I could have made IRL as well. In Fallout IV, I found myself quite conflicted as to which faction I should join, because all have good and bad sides. This kind of dillemma really helps with immersion in my opinion.
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                     With the MC in The Humbling Experience for instance, you have some choice which kind of person you want to be or become. Or Good Girl Gone Bad, and there are more examples of games with a female MC who has a more balanced personality.
                     <br/>
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                     But male characters, especially MC's, with some balance are hard to find...
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                     Will try Wife Trainer though.
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                     lots of people are assholes, think of murder, rapes, crimes that happens every day.
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                     the rape statistics is horrible.
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                     so, all this games we play those assholes, yes, those assholes the minority of men, but still they are the one that causes most damage and also experience more then the average joe.
                     <br/>
                     maybe the average joe, sometimes think, how is it to be that asshole, i would never in my life, but maybe playing a game.
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                     because, really, who wants to play the average joe? most of the time he jerk off to porn. very interesting.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="grev · Sep 20, 2017 at 4:59 AM" data-lb-id="post-203484">
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                        That's one way of looking at it, and I don't necessarily disagree.
                        <br/>
                        On the other hand, it is also interesting to put a "normal" person in an abnormal situation.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In general, for instance in games like Fallout, I like to play as "myself", making choices that I could have made IRL as well. In Fallout IV, I found myself quite conflicted as to which faction I should join, because all have good and bad sides. This kind of dillemma really helps with immersion in my opinion.
                        <br/>
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                        With the MC in The Humbling Experience for instance, you have some choice which kind of person you want to be or become. Or Good Girl Gone Bad, and there are more examples of games with a female MC who has a more balanced personality.
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                        But male characters, especially MC's, with some balance are hard to find...
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                        Will try Wife Trainer though.
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                     You make strong points and I agree that such games would definitley be appealing. I too, when a game permits me the ability to, try to play a game how I myself would face that experience in real life. I was merely trying to offer a possible explanation to the question posed by
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                     While I tend to agree with most comments so far on a decently written asshole being entertaining a truly well written plot should try to accomplish both. The Choice should be with the player...the short rush ( abuse, rape, blackmail...) or the long run (conjoint sex) all based on decisions made.
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                      you got a point in most games being one dimensional in there approach. The bigger issue I have playing adult games every once in awhile though are the women...most of them are outright dumb, easy to manipulate or under some magical, chemical influence...a quick fix over the thrill of the hunt really which is at least for me less entertaining.
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                        lots of people are assholes, think of murder, rapes, crimes that happens every day.
                        <br/>
                        the rape statistics is horrible.
                        <br/>
                        so, all this games we play those assholes, yes, those assholes the minority of men, but still they are the one that causes most damage and also experience more then the average joe.
                        <br/>
                        maybe the average joe, sometimes think, how is it to be that asshole, i would never in my life, but maybe playing a game.
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                        because, really, who wants to play the average joe? most of the time he jerk off to porn. very interesting.
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                     Quite right. A story I heard or read once from japan in referrence to Loli Hentai, was something akin to providing an outlet to the fantasy to help try and prevent those with the inclination from acting upon it in real life. Not to condone or exscuse or anything of the sort but the human psyche is a complex and confusing thing and i think a safe and controlled outlet is a better idea than letting something hit a boiling point
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                     One of the problems with writing a "nice" guy in a porn game is it's not very realistic.  It's far more believable that you get to fuck your family through blackmail/drugs/magic than just taking out the garbage and asking pretty please for a blowjob.  I can see romancing a single member of a family, but no harem for the non-rapey good guy.
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                     I have noticed on most VN's that if you go the nice guy route you are destined to fail pretty much every time...
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                     I think the OP has a valid point that shows a glaring hole on the extremely poor writing and 'backstory' for almost all of the 'games'.  I mean it's porn, and we all pretty much like the idea of waiting to see who will get the shaft (figuratively and literally) and how it will happen, but I think a lot of the MC's in these stories just show extremely lazy or unimaginative dev's who can't really think of a way to make a situation occur without force, blackmail or some fantasy (drugs, mind-control, etc).  It in a way because I know I don't fantasize about raping, blackmailing or forced coersion of women, I just like sex.  And frankly speaking IRL sex is *always* more fun with a willing and cooperative partner who thinks up as many 'fun' ideas as you can, WITHOUT them having to be tricked, "magiced" or blackmailed into it.
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                     I think this last is the major missing element in the vast majority of these stories, and any dev that manages to make this the least big plausible is one who usually rakes in the dough.  Even those can go bad if the dev drags things out too long or continues to have the female characters show an unrealistic naivety or stupidity for observing a situation.
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                        I think the OP has a valid point that shows a glaring hole on the extremely poor writing and 'backstory' for almost all of the 'games'.  I mean it's porn, and we all pretty much like the idea of waiting to see who will get the shaft (figuratively and literally) and how it will happen, but I think a lot of the MC's in these stories just show extremely lazy or unimaginative dev's who can't really think of a way to make a situation occur without force, blackmail or some fantasy (drugs, mind-control, etc).  It in a way because I know I don't fantasize about raping, blackmailing or forced coersion of women, I just like sex.  And frankly speaking IRL sex is *always* more fun with a willing and cooperative partner who thinks up as many 'fun' ideas as you can, WITHOUT them having to be tricked, "magiced" or blackmailed into it.
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                        I think this last is the major missing element in the vast majority of these stories, and any dev that manages to make this the least big plausible is one who usually rakes in the dough.  Even those can go bad if the dev drags things out too long or continues to have the female characters show an unrealistic naivety or stupidity for observing a situation.
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                     I respect your point of view and I agree that there is a lacking disparity in the quantity and quality of realistic MC's, but I think that even though it isnt to your personal tastes you are missing a point. Fantasy is just that, a deeply intense personal thought or dream. and a lot ( maybe not all ) of devs are creating a story that explores their own fantasy. If you have a different fantasy or even if you just want to experience a game of a different nature and it dosent exist out there for you why not try your hand at making your own. Even if you dont have the ability to do certain aspects of game creation maybe try your hand at writing up a project proposal and get the community to help out.
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                     For those who like a plot with some meat on those bones, i'd recommend checking out the new lagoon, people like Tlaero know how to tell a story. I put her work way above most of what i've seen here. I don't mind having games with characters like that, douches , what puts me off is lack of variety. So many games about Incest. It will get to the point where people will be so sick and tired of it, a good Incest vn will come along and fail, because folks are just burned out. And what could we say about NTR ? Not that all the games are like that, quite the opposite, i see folks so freaked out about it, they can't distinguish between an Antagonist and NTR. I think there's a much broader audience out there for classic story telling. The Hero beats the Bad Guy and gets the Girl. But wouldn't mind at all playing an Anti-Hero, who beats the Hero, and gets the girl. That's all good clean fun. What bothers me, is that most games look the same. Oh, well, i'll always have Tlaero... PS : forgot to add vdategames. Great fun.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="El bacca Del Chew · Sep 20, 2017 at 9:45 AM" data-lb-id="post-203699">
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                     Well it might seems caricatural but think about it for a minute, seriously think about it, what it means what it implied and what we can forget and forgive:
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                     <i>
                      <b>
                       Trump: Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.
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                       <br/>
                       Bush: Whatever you want.
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                       <br/>
                       Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.
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                     Most of the games are writen by men and a lot of men think that the quote above is funny !
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                     abuse of power is not attractive at all. and its nothing funny about it. its revolting and disgusting.
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                     u know, theres some of us that actually think that honesty, emotions, love are important, but that doesn't mean we don't have a horny side that enjoy some fiction. i would never like to force anyone or get the girl because i have the cash, i have never payed any prostitute just because its fake, because its empty. but I would pay a prostitute playing a game.
                     <br/>
                     games are to explore the limits, to get into situation we would never have, that not only are unreachable, we would never try to reach them as they are outside what our ethics tells us. just because theres assholes out there in the world doesn't mean we all could be one.
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                     thats one of the reasons i like summertime saga. no brainwashing, no blackmailing just making them like you naturally.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="El bacca Del Chew · Sep 20, 2017 at 10:36 AM" data-lb-id="post-203744">
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                        baka said:
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                        games are to explore the limits, to get into situation we would never have, that not only are unreachable, we would never try to reach them as they are outside what our ethics tells us.
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                     I do agree with your post, you mostly right.
                     <br/>
                     Just a thought here:
                     <br/>
                     -90% of the games here, the popular ones are about abuse, mind control, cheats....(you know what), and because this is what people want, and this not a case of pepole play with what they got. Not in the 70's or 80's anymore, the offer do not dictate the choice, there's more than enough offer to choose what we like.
                     <br/>
                     -In every thread and whatever the game is about, you'll find dozens and dozens of messages "do you fuck her/ them already"
                     <br/>
                     -The vast majority of people want to play "trump" and not Ross from Friends
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This is not a judgement, i don't judge or criticize, those are just facts.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="grev · Sep 20, 2017 at 10:43 AM" data-lb-id="post-203754">
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                        El bacca Del Chew said:
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                        I do agree with your post, you mostly right.
                        <br/>
                        Just a thought here:
                        <br/>
                        -90% of the games here, the popular ones are about abuse, mind control, cheats....(you know what), and because this is what people want, and this not a case of pepole play with what they got. Not in the 70's or 80's anymore, the offer do not dictate the choice, there's more than enough offer to choose what we like.
                        <br/>
                        -In every thread and whatever the game is about, you'll find dozens and dozens of messages "do you fuck her/ them already"
                        <br/>
                        -The vast majority of people want to play "trump" and not Ross from Friends
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        This is not a judgement, i don't judge or criticize, those are just facts.
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                     if you could explore the idea of doing something you know was wrong knowing there are no consequences or damage to anyone anywhere, wouldn't you? its not much different than people saving in skyrim and then slaughtering the entire town of whiterun. for some reason people tend to be more touchy when sex is involved even more so than the ending of human life, look at the game hitman  you play a master hit man, regardless of the nature of the targets its a hit game where you play a morally questionable character its just different morals is all.
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                     Modded
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                        grev said:
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                        if you could explore the idea of doing something you know was wrong knowing there are no consequences or damage to anyone anywhere, wouldn't you?
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                     Indeed,
                     <br/>
                     and here i'm, on a porn game forum
                     <img alt=":)" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite667" data-shortname=":)" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Smile    :)"/>
                     <br/>
                     But i was on the topic, why most of MC are assholes. And it's true they are, and yes you can play skyrim mass killer or hitman or Gta, you also can play plenty of games in which you are a true hero. In porn, nowadays, it is more difficult to find a nice guy, they are mostly horny molester who want to fuck all the bimbo/slut/hot mama/dumb bitches that they can. Which is not my fav thing, then this why i don't play many games here. And as i said to stay on the topic, i think and may be wrong but "why most of MC are assholes", because that is what most people want.
                     <br/>
                     And to be clear, i heard you and understand and mostly agree with you, this is just my 2 cents feeling about the OP question. And despite it was unnecessary i wanted to clarify a bit
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                     Oh i wasnt trying to argue, i just like having topical discussions about things and you had some interesting ideas so i just offered up some of my own
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                     yes, the reason is like anything else, we tend to enjoy drama, thriller, end of world scenarios, fighting, war and all that, in porn is the same. we are also different, i dont like war movies, but i enjoy end of world movies. some like rape, while im not into it, i get more excited with the slow corruption and the ntr stuff, but when the girl is turned slutty its not fun anymore.
                     <br/>
                     now, back to the assholes in games, for me it depends. it need to be smart otherwise i lose interest, its a delicate thing for me at least. so, its not that I enjoy assholes, most of the games are quite dumb and I get very little satisfaction, as I like slow progression where the girl turns slowly and its her choice, she need to have one, even if slim. i hate it when theres no escape. some games, when I just want some fun moments and stupid excuse for some sexy time, then one asshole here and there can make it fun.
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                        yes, the reason is like anything else, we tend to enjoy drama, thriller, end of world scenarios, fighting, war and all that, in porn is the same. we are also different, i dont like war movies, but i enjoy end of world movies. some like rape, while im not into it, i get more excited with the slow corruption and the ntr stuff, but when the girl is turned slutty its not fun anymore.
                        <br/>
                        now, back to the assholes in games, for me it depends. it need to be smart otherwise i lose interest, its a delicate thing for me at least. so, its not that I enjoy assholes, most of the games are quite dumb and I get very little satisfaction, as I like slow progression where the girl turns slowly and its her choice, she need to have one, even if slim. i hate it when theres no escape. some games, when I just want some fun moments and stupid excuse for some sexy time, then one asshole here and there can make it fun.
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                     giving the target a choice.  its a fantastic idea but seriously hard to code i would imagine as it all boils down to wether or not the player makes the right choices as the MC. I think this is why i like wifetrainer so much though  as all of the clients are there by choice.. at least at first and its up to you wether you play the good guy who just does his job in fixing their quirks ( even if you do this you still get sexy scenes) or play the bad guy who tries to basically steal all the wives and turn them into your play things. it has the options for all of that and everything in between. side characters you can flirt with to make your girlfriend but will leave you the second you get a side ho, shop clerks that willingly become your sub  and other characters that will straight up end you if you piss them off.
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                        giving the target a choice.  its a fantastic idea but seriously hard to code i would imagine as it all boils down to wether or not the player makes the right choices as the MC. I think this is why i like wifetrainer so much though  as all of the clients are there by choice.. at least at first and its up to you wether you play the good guy who just does his job in fixing their quirks ( even if you do this you still get sexy scenes) or play the bad guy who tries to basically steal all the wives and turn them into your play things. it has the options for all of that and everything in between. side characters you can flirt with to make your girlfriend but will leave you the second you get a side ho, shop clerks that willingly become your sub  and other characters that will straight up end you if you piss them off.
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                     You nailed it. The problem is choice. Be it the choices available to the player, to create a more immersive experience , be it the choice of Fetishes the games offer. I have zero interest in the Incest fetish, but if i want to play a seduction game, it's almost unavoidable . Yes, creating a multi path choice based game , with clever writing and interesting characters, it's pie in the sky, but that's my gage for VN's.
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                     Why are they assholes?
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                     Because in a game you can play the asshole without consequences. To free your surpressed desires/fantasies, your negative energy.
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                     Because people see IRL the world is full of assholes and the guy on top is an asshole and being an asshole is part of  the success so why not try being that guy in a game.
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                     Because some people don`t read the words just looks at the pictures, so why bother?
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                     Because some people can be true to themselves while playing those games after being forced to play the "nice guy" all day long.
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                     Because these are porn games so most of the people don`t come here to find "lessons on moral".
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                     And mostly because some people know all above and try to make a profit out of it.
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                     Being the 'asshole' also makes a lot of sense from a design point of view. At least, that's how I see it.
                     <br/>
                     It takes a lot more skill and a lot of better writing to not turn into a cringy neckbeard trying to win m'lady's heart when you want to be 'good'. Your players will complain either about a lack of realism or feel the main character is too much of a wuss.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Whereas you tackle these things immediately by letting the player be an almost dominating presence to the women.
                     <br/>
                     It still takes skill, but it doesn't take
                     <i>
                      as much
                     </i>
                     to write a story where you can basically alter their mind or force women into submission. You're skipping the hard work required to 'win' somebody.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Some examples that come to mind are Dual Family, where one storyline is now supposedly falling far behind the other. I say supposedly because I'm recalling this from memory and I don't want to discredit any games.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Another is Dating my Daughter, a story that has a slow burn and also results in complaints.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     And of course, don't forget 'Eric'-like characters. The moment the actual asshole isn't controlled by the player, they start complaining. Because let's be honest, if the roles were reversed and people could play Eric instead of the son, they'd be giggling about what a passive little fuck the son is.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Sep 20, 2017 at 7:03 PM" data-lb-id="post-204125">
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                        I have noticed on most VN's that if you go the nice guy route you are destined to fail pretty much every time...
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                     Yeah, the number of games where it's mandatory to peek on girls or aggressively grope them, in their sleep or not, is enormous. But why peek on them, why grope them ? Soon you'll bang them all, can't you just wait for the surprise ?
                     <br/>
                     That's part of why I like
                     <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/my-lesbian-roommate-v0-07-iceridlah.4937/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      my new roommate
                     </a>
                     . In this game, being gentle and well educated is the way to be rewarded. You miss a boobs picture, what a big deal ? She'll start to be topless because you haven't acted like a dick.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     This said, on the author point of view, it make some sense. They make adult games and want to make money with them ; some even need to make money since they pay for the artwork. So, in their mind the sooner they'll show tits and asses, the sooner they'll make a lot of money. Even if it's biased, it make sense. Especially when you see the number of, "no tits yet, so I'll pass", which can be read in threads about early games.
                     <br/>
                     A story, whatever it's a good or bad one, need time to be put in place, a gentle path will need (in game) days before you see some piece of flesh. So you've the lazy authors who put a shower scene every now and then, and open all rooms at night. You become a jerk who only think with is dick, and every time you encounter a new girl, you'll bang her in less than three days.
                     <br/>
                     At the end, why bother with the story ? It's the second release, the majority is happy because they can already bang a girl, and you already make $1000/month... Well, fuck the story as well as the girls, it'll be faster to wrote tons of "aaahh, ooooh... Yesss!" than sophisticated dialogs.
                     <br/>
                     The worse part of all this is that it work ! Too many of these lazy authors make a lot of money, while most of those who try to have a real story have difficulty to achieve even a small goal. All in one, more free time and more money for the author, why say no to this ?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     In the end, why so many asshole ? Because it's bankable...
                     <br/>
                     It's sad, but if an author have difficulty to pay for the art of his game, the best solution is to create a rushed Daz3D grope'm'all like an asshole. He'll make $1000 in no days and finance his real game.
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                     Seems to me just the porn version of the power tripping players who goes on killing spree in GTA or pulling someone apart in God of war .
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                     It's fantasy people explore and do things they can't do in real life , power centered fantasies are to be expected to be major theme . i know it was for me when i was a younger inexperienced teen , not a major fetish anymore
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                     In real life most of us are powerless . They are plenty of games where not abusing your power is an option or you're not that strong in it .
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                     I really thought that Simon from The Last Sovereign would fit as an example of a well-written and non-rapey male protagonist of an h-game.  I still think he fits, despite the magic involved.
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                     I think initially at least, especially with new dev's its to drum up interest in their game. If it's purely nice guy then chances are for the first couple updates the sex will be very limited/non existent and thus unlikely to get much in the way of support. Teacher's Pets is a good example, the mind control route is fleshed out more in first few updates but now with a steady income and Irredeemable more established as a reliable developer. The romance route is getting more attention and it really becomes the players choice if they want to go the mind control or nice guy route. Even the mind control route is less assholey than other games as it's (in most cases) still a slow build up rather than going from 0 to 100 with one pill.
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                     As mentioned above for some well written erotic games not involving mind control, manipulation or corruption you should check out Tllaero and Mortze's games and the older but still good Tllaero and Phreaky games. They all free to play, have well developed characters and are very hot.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="GodGoku · Sep 20, 2017 at 9:37 PM" data-lb-id="post-204305">
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                        Some of the family members too in these games. Especially Big Brother.
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                     well, i can agree with that.
                     <br/>
                     Big Brother Storyline is annyoing.
                     <br/>
                     I hate many points of that game.
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                     well, u should try ICSTOR games.
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                     Well, now I m gonna give a review to bb now.
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                        The nature of fantasy is being able to experience the things that you can't normally do in polite society. most people in their right mind wont rape, abuse, blackmail, or to a lesser extent cheat others. but that dosen't mean that people dont have an interest in what it would be like to some level. on the other hand not many people fantasize about being a nice normal human being cause for the most part they believe themselves to already be one.  That is probably why these games tend to be more about the darker sides of life or the taboo.  just my opinion though
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                     I agree completely.
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                     There's also the popularity of harem games or at the very least the MC having multiple sexual partners, even if they don't know about each other. It's difficult to write a story where the MC is sleeping around without making him an asshole or using some sort of special aid e.g magic or mind control.
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                     Asshole or nice guy I think it boils down to the question: Is it believable?
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                     In too many games the MC himself does not know if he is an asshole or not which results in a tepid satisfaction at best. Do games tend to include more assholes than nice guys...certainly....is any of them really a deviant , manipulative or outright evil guy...nope...
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                      "I think initially at least, especially with new dev's its to drum up interest in their game."
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                      there might be some truth to that as they tent to spin around after a few versions suddenly creating a nice guy while all is forgiven his former victims become willingly lovers...not exactly believable.
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                        Yeah, the number of games where it's mandatory to peek on girls or aggressively grope them, in their sleep or not, is enormous. But why peek on them, why grope them ? Soon you'll bang them all, can't you just wait for the surprise ?
                        <br/>
                        That's part of why I like
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/my-lesbian-roommate-v0-07-iceridlah.4937/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         my new roommate
                        </a>
                        . In this game, being gentle and well educated is the way to be rewarded. You miss a boobs picture, what a big deal ? She'll start to be topless because you haven't acted like a dick.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        This said, on the author point of view, it make some sense. They make adult games and want to make money with them ; some even need to make money since they pay for the artwork. So, in their mind the sooner they'll show tits and asses, the sooner they'll make a lot of money. Even if it's biased, it make sense. Especially when you see the number of, "no tits yet, so I'll pass", which can be read in threads about early games.
                        <br/>
                        A story, whatever it's a good or bad one, need time to be put in place, a gentle path will need (in game) days before you see some piece of flesh. So you've the lazy authors who put a shower scene every now and then, and open all rooms at night. You become a jerk who only think with is dick, and every time you encounter a new girl, you'll bang her in less than three days.
                        <br/>
                        At the end, why bother with the story ? It's the second release, the majority is happy because they can already bang a girl, and you already make $1000/month... Well, fuck the story as well as the girls, it'll be faster to wrote tons of "aaahh, ooooh... Yesss!" than sophisticated dialogs.
                        <br/>
                        The worse part of all this is that it work ! Too many of these lazy authors make a lot of money, while most of those who try to have a real story have difficulty to achieve even a small goal. All in one, more free time and more money for the author, why say no to this ?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In the end, why so many asshole ? Because it's bankable...
                        <br/>
                        It's sad, but if an author have difficulty to pay for the art of his game, the best solution is to create a rushed Daz3D grope'm'all like an asshole. He'll make $1000 in no days and finance his real game.
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                     You make  a lot of great points, money can be a very big driving factory behind less than adequate story writing. other topics we have brought up in this thread alot is pandering to the crowd and just exploring personal fantasies.  but the one thing that i haven't see as an explanation for these characters without depth or decency is lack of experience. I would imagine  a portion of the dev's for these kinds of games may not have the writing/life experience neccesary to write a character like this. Ill use myself as an example despite not being a game dev, I know if i were to develop a game, when it comes to the computer stuff ( graphics coding and what have you) id feel pretty confident in my ability, hell i am confident that i have some good ideas for a story too but i cant write my way out of a wet paper bag.  I dont know how to make a character believable and still get the girl. i dont know how to make you hate someone without  putting one of "your women" at risk ( read Erics and psuedo NTR ). So i think a lot of these  so called flat characters and games could be a lot better with a skilled and experienced writer behind the helm.
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                        There's also the popularity of harem games or at the very least the MC having multiple sexual partners, even if they don't know about each other. It's difficult to write a story where the MC is sleeping around without making him an asshole or using some sort of special aid e.g magic or mind control.
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                     You could do it, with humour. Make it a porn sit-com, where the MC is an a hole, but a likable a hole, and gets himself into crazy funny situations when his dick takes over his brain. Parental Love could've been that way, but i guess it won't , My Sweet Neighbors can still turn out that way. Hey, if they could make "Dexter" work, this isn't really that hard.
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                        [...] So i think a lot of these  so called flat characters and games could be a lot better with a skilled and experienced writer behind the helm.
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                     It's a really good point. Like I said, but for another reason at this time, it's easier to write tons of "Aaaah... oooohhh... yeessss", than a... "dear Joanna, every times my eyes reach your shadow, my heart start to pound faster, harder. No, don't talk, I know... I know, you're married... I shouldn't think about you, not this way... never this way ! I shouldn't even talk with you about my feelings. But it's a fact, what can I do against a fact ? I love you... Joanna..."
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                     So yeah, you rape her, instead of entering a seduction competition where her husband is your opponent, and she's the first price.
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                        It's a really good point. Like I said, but for another reason at this time, it's easier to write tons of "Aaaah... oooohhh... yeessss", than a... "dear Joanna, every times my eyes reach your shadow, my heart start to pound faster, harder. No, don't talk, I know... I know, you're married... I shouldn't think about you, not this way... never this way ! I shouldn't even talk with you about my feelings. But it's a fact, what can I do against a fact ? I love you... Joanna..."
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                        So yeah, you rape her, instead of entering a seduction competition where her husband is your opponent, and she's the first price.
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                     while that is a fine bit of writing that last bit still has undertones of objectification, proving just how hard it is to write and the inherent problem with realism in sex games. I mean in reality a situation like that depending on what type of person Joanna is, its very unlikely you'd actually win that battle unless you write the story to favor the MC but catch 22 you do that and it becomes unrealistic again. So how to solve this? either a back story of Joanna wasnt really happy in the relationship to begin with ( plausible but a little deus ex ) or MC has some kind of advantage ( Bastard, domineering, magic, hypno, rape etc). the problem is there is no realistic way to write scenarios like the ones we find in these games cause in reality they are extremely rare if not non existent. When a writer does manage something that is close to being realistic it requires a lot of build up thus putting back the pay off and reducing the majority of interest in sex games, i mean if you make it realistic enough it might as well be a dating sim rather than a sex game
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                     I seem to be a weird case.
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                     In RL I'm very nice and helpful and I love my personality. Also I can't stand being the asshole in games like the Fallout series and I'm glad I have a choice there.
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                     But when I play porn games my whole mindset shifts. No amount of incest, coercion, lying or blackmail is enough. Even rape is suddenly 'hot'.
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                     No matter how much I try to figure out why, I simply can't explain it.
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                        Caligula said:
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                        I seem to be a weird case.
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In RL I'm very nice and helpful and I love my personality. Also I can't stand being the asshole in games like the Fallout series and I'm glad I have a choice there.
                        <br/>
                        But when I play porn games my whole mindset shifts. No amount of incest, coercion, lying or blackmail is enough. Even rape is suddenly 'hot'.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        No matter how much I try to figure out why, I simply can't explain it.
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                     It's because you can eat your cake and keep it. Sin without Penitence, Victimless Crime, Deed without consequence. Pick your analogy.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Sep 21, 2017 at 3:40 AM" data-lb-id="post-205083">
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                        grev said:
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                        When a writer does manage something that is close to being realistic it requires a lot of build up thus putting back the pay off and reducing the majority of interest in sex games, i mean if you make it realistic enough it might as well be a dating sim rather than a sex game
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                     Exactly. There's way to do it, but it need to think about it and, more important, to know it before anything else.
                     <br/>
                     One way to show that Joanna isn't happily married is to encounter her in a club fourth nights in a row. Then you've those two (poorly written lines):
                     <br/>
                     "Still here Joanna ? I know this, long ago, when I was in a relationship myself, I hated the time when my girlfriend had to work far from the house."
                     <br/>
                     "No, my husband is at home, I just wanted to have some fun."
                     <br/>
                     You can say a lot by the behavior, the place/moment you encounter the character, and possible small reference at their past in the dialog. But for to achieve this, you need to know the whole background of the character before writing your first line of code.
                     <br/>
                     And that where's the lack. Most of the authors aren't writers. They've an idea for a game, some knowledge for the CG and in coding, and they have a vague idea about a game: "There's this guy, he encounter this girl, then this one, and he fuck them both because of this."
                     <br/>
                     What's the guy's past ? From where the girls come from ? What they do for living, where they live ? He have no idea, he just figure it out when the time come, if the time come.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     You can see the difference in games that had a reboot, like "the gift reloaded" by example. The characters have more depth than in the original game, because the author have past so many hours thinking about them and, even if it's just in his own head, he now have a background for them.
                     <br/>
                     At start he wanted to tell his idea, but in his head the idea became a story. So he restarted the game, and now he tell the story. And you can really feel the difference ; I don't slept this night because I wanted to go to the end of the last update, stuck by the story.
                     <br/>
                     Oh, and you know what ? There's complain because now the mc isn't an asshole
                     <img alt=":(" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite669" data-shortname=":(" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Frown    :("/>
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                     Track variables
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="grev · Sep 21, 2017 at 3:45 AM" data-lb-id="post-205100">
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                        anne O'nymous said:
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                        Exactly. There's way to do it, but it need to think about it and, more important, to know it before anything else.
                        <br/>
                        One way to show that Joanna isn't happily married is to encounter her in a club fourth nights in a row. Then you've those two (poorly written lines):
                        <br/>
                        "Still here Joanna ? I know this, long ago, when I was in a relationship myself, I hated the time when my girlfriend had to work far from the house."
                        <br/>
                        "No, my husband is at home, I just wanted to have some fun."
                        <br/>
                        You can say a lot by the behavior, the place/moment you encounter the character, and possible small reference at their past in the dialog. But for to achieve this, you need to know the whole background of the character before writing your first line of code.
                        <br/>
                        And that where's the lack. Most of the authors aren't writers. They've an idea for a game, some knowledge for the CG and in coding, and they have a vague idea about a game: "There's this guy, he encounter this girl, then this one, and he fuck them both because of this."
                        <br/>
                        What's the guy's past ? From where the girls come from ? What they do for living, where they live ? He have no idea, he just figure it out when the time come, if the time come.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        You can see the difference in games that had a reboot, like "the gift reloaded" by example. The characters have more depth than in the original game, because the author have past so many hours thinking about them and, even if it's just in his own head, he now have a background for them.
                        <br/>
                        At start he wanted to tell his idea, but in his head the idea became a story. So he restarted the game, and now he tell the story. And you can really feel the difference ; I don't slept this night because I wanted to go to the end of the last update, stuck by the story.
                        <br/>
                        Oh, and you know what ? There's complain because now the mc isn't an asshole
                        <img alt=":(" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite669" data-shortname=":(" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Frown    :("/>
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                     and there is the other end of the spectrum. it becomes a problem when you try and make everyone happy. you either have to make up plot devices to include everything for everyone or you stick to your guns and make some people unhappy.
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                        and there is the other end of the spectrum. it becomes a problem when you try and make everyone happy. you either have to make up plot devices to include everything for everyone or you stick to your guns and make some people unhappy.
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                     Ethan's Legacy comes to mind....
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                     Not quite familiar with which this is pointing out, but personally in a discussion such as this i'd preffer to leave examples out,  a generalize discussion will be more effective and prevent people from getting defensive due to their attachment to games that they either like or dislike.
                     <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                        Why are there not more games with nice / normal male characters?
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                     I believe what you are looking for is called Netorare.   Nice guys never get the girl.
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                        grev said:
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                        Not quite familiar with which this is pointing out, but personally in a discussion such as this i'd preffer to leave examples out,  a generalize discussion will be more effective and prevent people from getting defensive due to their attachment to games that they either like or dislike.
                        <img alt=":D" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite674" data-shortname=":D" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Big grin    :D"/>
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                     The thread for that game is somewhere in this forum, it's  the seminal story of what happens when a Dev tries to please everybody at the same time. Long story short, everybody piled on him, and he ended up abandoning the game with a clinical depression. I just quoted the game , assuming you'd understand the reference, that's all.
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                     no worries. i just like to keep discussions generic. but i agree with your point, trying to pander to everyone is going to leave everyone upset at least a little
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                     Slightly off topic, but as you talked about writings, check this one, it does make the difference and the MC does not look like an Asshole (so far)
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                      [Ren'Py] - Wicked Choices [The Prologue] [ASLPro3d]
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                        Slightly off topic, but as you talked about writings, check this one, it does make the difference and the MC does not look like an Asshole (so far)
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                           Slightly off topic, but as you talked about writings, check this one, it does make the difference and the MC does not look like an Asshole (so far)
                           <br/>
                           <a class="link link--external" href="https://f95zone.com/threads/wicked-choices-the-prologue-aslpro3d.5012/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                            [Ren'Py] - Wicked Choices [The Prologue] [ASLPro3d]
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                        Nice one, i'll check it out. Returning the favor, try out a couple of Tlaero's novels, say "Dreaming of Elsa" or "Redemption for Jessica" . I always love Tlaero's novels, because i come out with a feelgood vibe to them. Wish some more Dev's picked up on that.
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                        I really thought that Simon from The Last Sovereign would fit as an example of a well-written and non-rapey male protagonist of an h-game.  I still think he fits, despite the magic involved.
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                     This.
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                     Simon shows that a "nice" guy doesn't need to be a wimp or a cuck, and that it is also not impossible for a MC of a porn game to have a moral code. In my opinion, this makes Simon much more likeable and therefore TLS a much better / more immersive game.
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                     In TLS, there is magic and there is a harem, both of which I'd rather not see in a "realistic" game, but TLS obviously isn't one of those, so it doesn't matter.
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                     Because people are naturally into violence. Now think why games like call of duty, medal of honor, battle field, grand theft auto are so popular than broken sword,brothers tales of two sons ? it's because of the same reason. People are inherently violent and they like to experience it somehow (whether it's in real world or through video games. Have you ever seen how in grand theft auto people run over pedestrians? ), and it's suppressed by the morality which is developed in people through culture, religion, and law. This is also the same reason why children should be raised well, otherwise it's the parents fault if they turned into criminals.
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                     We tend to agree with the OP's sentiment. A considerable majority of male characters in the porn games we've come across have been absolute scumbags, but we get the "it's fantasy" element of sexual trope exploration.
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                     I think it's partly imitative, since so many projects tend to resemble one another. But there's clearly a demographic for it out there as well.
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                     There's still a strange moralizing that happens about porn characters, if you can even imagine it. It's hard for some people to imagine people just fucking for the sake of fucking, so there's often violence involved for the sake of narrative convenience.
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                     There's a larger point to be made here. Thanks to Post-Modernism, Men don't know how to be Men anymore. Some buy the "Toxic Masculinity" bs and turn into White Knight Beta Males, others go MGTOW, while what Women want never really changed since the Dawn of Time. They want a Dangerous Man who they can tame. That's "Beauty and the Beast". They want a guy that can stand up for himself, and for the Woman, and down the line, the Children, not a wimp. That's where the "nice guys never win" line comes from. Women are objectified through their bodies, but Men are equally objectified, through Status. Women almost never marry down, they choose an equal or above partner. While Men will pick any Woman, regardless of Status . This creates pressure to get Status, ergo, if you can't beat the other Hunters to the food, you're not getting laid. So, it's not "Nice guys never win", it's "Don't be a pushover ".
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                        That's one way of looking at it, and I don't necessarily disagree.
                        <br/>
                        On the other hand, it is also interesting to put a "normal" person in an abnormal situation.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        In general, for instance in games like Fallout, I like to play as "myself", making choices that I could have made IRL as well. In Fallout IV, I found myself quite conflicted as to which faction I should join, because all have good and bad sides. This kind of dillemma really helps with immersion in my opinion.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        With the MC in The Humbling Experience for instance, you have some choice which kind of person you want to be or become. Or Good Girl Gone Bad, and there are more examples of games with a female MC who has a more balanced personality.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        But male characters, especially MC's, with some balance are hard to find...
                        <br/>
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                        Will try Wife Trainer though.
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                     to further more, they are porn games, and just as porn, the main topic is sex, and that is why it use popular topics of porn:
                     <br/>
                     like nymphomania, corruption, submmison ect
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     they are not meant to be base on human life interaction or normal aspect of a realtionship with a girl.
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                        Thanks to Post-Modernism, Men don't know how to be Men anymore.
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                     That's right. A few weeks ago, I was reading some PhD thesis about culture in the early middle ages, where the author explained the term "honour" in the context of Beowulf. The author noted that "Western culture is one of the very few cultures in world history where people no longer have a sense of honour". I tend to agree, especially in comparison to the late Germanic / early medieval culture that was being discussed.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     But regarding what you are saying about Status, I'm not sure.
                     <br/>
                     It seems that:
                     <br/>
                     1) To be "successful", you need a career. For a succesful career, you need to be not a complete pushover, but not a complete rebel / asshole either. In general, a reasonably smart, hard-working person can succeed in life in the sense that he can provide quite well for his family where it matters (house, school, food, car etc.).
                     <br/>
                     2) For some reason though, some women seem to be attracted to "bad boys" who will accomplish nothing in life, except petty crime, drinking and sex with random sluts. The fact that some so-called "bad boy" pop/rap/rock/sport stars do accomplish something is noteworthy but statistically irrelevant as most people who are trying to follow such "stars" are doomed to fail and end up living on welfare...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Back to topic, I'd rather see more males from category 1 in games and less of those from category 2... Although the type of person I described in the OP is not completely category 2 either...
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                        they are porn games, and just as porn, they are not meant to be base on human life interaction or normal aspect of a realtionship with a girl.
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                     Well, if you look at it like that, Fallout is just a shooting game.
                     <br/>
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                     But why is it a good game? Not because the shooting is well done (basically it's fantasy) nor because there is simply a lot of blood and violence. In my opinion, it's good because the story has compelling and also offers some choices to the player.
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                     The advantage that I think a porn game has over a porn movie or porn pictures, is that there is a story which you can influence. The better that story, the better the game.
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                        That's right. A few weeks ago, I was reading some PhD thesis about culture in the early middle ages, where the author explained the term "honour" in the context of Beowulf. The author noted that "Western culture is one of the very few cultures in world history where people no longer have a sense of honour". I tend to agree, especially in comparison to the late Germanic / early medieval culture that was being discussed.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        But regarding what you are saying about Status, I'm not sure.
                        <br/>
                        It seems that:
                        <br/>
                        1) To be "successful", you need a career. For a succesful career, you need to be not a complete pushover, but not a complete rebel / asshole either. In general, a reasonably smart, hard-working person can succeed in life in the sense that he can provide quite well for his family where it matters (house, school, food, car etc.).
                        <br/>
                        2) For some reason though, some women seem to be attracted to "bad boys" who will accomplish nothing in life, except petty crime, drinking and sex with random sluts. The fact that some so-called "bad boy" pop/rap/rock/sport stars do accomplish something is noteworthy but statistically irrelevant as most people who are trying to follow such "stars" are doomed to fail and end up living on welfare...
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Back to topic, I'd rather see more males from category 1 in games and less of those from category 2... Although the type of person I described in the OP is not completely category 2 either...
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                     "Honor" is very much present in the greco-roman civilisation too. It was a custom to commit suicide to "clean the honor of the family". Many defeated military commanders commited suicide , to "wipe the shame of defeat ". But more importantly, your nº1. "Success " is relative. Take a 19yo girl in inner city Detroit. A guy who works in a Pizza shop is "successful", at least from her chair. But it wouldn't cut it for Ivanka Trump, right ? Women marry equal or above, but very rarely down. "She's above your League". On your point Nº 2, well, people have the right to be stupid as doornobs, but i think it's just immaturity there. When they get a bit older ,and wiser, Women generally go for the "reliable " types. That's why so many Women cumplain " the Good ones are already taken". Smartest girls mature quicker, wise up quicker, and snatch the best catches faster. That leaves a bunch of 30yo Women, very successful, and very alone, living miserable lives. Because by that point, they want children, and the Men opt out,  pick younger women, who won't present that issue for years. Feminism is making Women miserable, while Men get to screw pussy like never before, with no strings attached. Men win !
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                     I meant to write "in MODERN western culture, the concept of honour is absent". I forgot the word modern, which is kinda important for the context.
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                     But yeah, I agree with your post.
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                        Feminism is making Women miserable, while Men get to screw pussy like never before, with no strings attached. Men win !
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                     (jumping into this with only the info i read in the OPs post)
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                     As i girl, i love that games have these asshole alpha guys. I usually come to porn games for that forbiden, unusual, probably-not-going-to-happen-in-real-life kick. But i can kind of understand your worry.
                     <br/>
                     One game, that i know that has a sweety type guy in it is GoodGirlGoneBad. His name is Eric and you get with him more if you take the good girl route.
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                        (jumping into this with only the info i read in the OPs post)
                        <br/>
                        As i girl, i love that games have these asshole alpha guys. I usually come to porn games for that forbiden, unusual, probably-not-going-to-happen-in-real-life kick. But i can kind of understand your worry.
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                     I can understand the fantasy part. But when does it get "too much"?
                     <br/>
                     For instance BB's Max, all he does is blackmail, bribe and somehow "convince" the girls to do stuff with him. I really fail to see the attraction that he could have to women.
                     <br/>
                     In GGGB, I understand the relationship between Jack and Jessica. I could also understand Ash's attraction to Jack, but on the other hand he'd be wrong for her.
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                        One game, that i know that has a sweety type guy in it is GoodGirlGoneBad. His name is Eric and you get with him more if you take the good girl route.
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                     What's your opinion on GGGB's Eric?
                     <br/>
                     Quite a few people seem to think he's too soft / a wimp. I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, but he's not a tough guy either.
                     <br/>
                     Is such a guy in any way interesting, or not?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     I guess the main point I'm trying to make in this thread is that the MC does not need to be a borderline criminal in order to get the girls.
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                        I can understand the fantasy part. But when does it get "too much"?
                        <br/>
                        For instance BB's Max, all he does is blackmail, bribe and somehow "convince" the girls to do stuff with him. I really fail to see the attraction that he could have to women.
                        <br/>
                        In GGGB, I understand the relationship between Jack and Jessica. I could also understand Ash's attraction to Jack, but on the other hand he'd be wrong for her.
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                     I havent played BB myself (because i heard so many bad opinions on it) so i cant say much about that. But if we take the whole blackmail topic, then (for me atleast), i find the "this is dangerous, and could really hurt me irl, but i get to experience it through this game" aspect to be a really big turn-on. I cant explain why. It might have something to do with the whole sub mentality, not sure.
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                        What's your opinion on GGGB's Eric?
                        <br/>
                        Quite a few people seem to think he's too soft / a wimp. I don't necessarily agree with that sentiment, but he's not a tough guy either.
                        <br/>
                        Is such a guy in any way interesting, or not?
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                     Since, as i said, i dont come to games for realism or realistic situations, then i dont play his storyline much. But if i would have to look at the character as he is in the game right now, then (if id be into the Good Girl storyline) id find him to be a good guy. And i wouldnt call him a wimp either.
                     <br/>
                     Btw, EvaKiss, the creator of GGGB recently redisgned Eric. I guess some people saw him as a wimp purely because of the appearance.
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                        I havent played BB myself (because i heard so many bad opinions on it) so i cant say much about that. But if we take the whole blackmail topic, then (for me atleast), i find the "this is dangerous, and could really hurt me irl, but i get to experience it through this game" aspect to be a really big turn-on.
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                     Then, what do you think of
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                     There is nothing wrong with evil characters. I think the main problem is that main male character have no other goals then to fuck every woman in the game. Also It's pretty simple to just blackmail someone. How about a game where all females are evil and main male character is righteous guy who want to live honest life?
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                        Thialf said:
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                        Then, what do you think of
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                         [VN] - [Ren'Py] - Katie's Corruption [v1.10] [3diddly]
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                     I am not that much into 3d games, sorry
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                     You know what I think? That ladies love assholes every once in a while.
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                     Probably because shock/horror elements usually obscure the complete lack of personality of the characters in these games. Everything else is generic and stereotype. Would be interesting to know if there are games with a good story where you actually attach emotionally of a character.
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                     in the game I made, I usually just kill off all the assholes
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                     Yeah it would be great to have a game with a total inversion , like a great and good mc , but all the girls are cheating , abusing bitches
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                        There is nothing wrong with evil characters. I think the main problem is that main male character have no other goals then to fuck every woman in the game. Also It's pretty simple to just blackmail someone. How about a game where all females are evil and main male character is righteous guy who want to live honest life?
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                     I know this post is months old, but have you heard of
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                     ? All the women in that game are complete doms to the passive MC who just wants to live a simple life.
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                     I can assure you that you don't speak for all women when you say that.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     On the topic of the OP, I think it's fairly simple. The reason people use drugs/blackmail/etc. instead of being nicer is the result of a few factors.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - Harems rarely happen, and even more rarely work out. While someone might have multiple sexual partners over the course of their life, they will very infrequently maintain more than one at a time. It's incredibly unlikely that a person could maintain two (let alone, say, five) distinct sexual relationships with other people. Thus, it's much easier to just have a reason that they can't leave the relationship.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - Makes things quicker. Real relationships (unless they're flings) take time to progress to sex, and nobody wants to trudge through a month of dating while they're trying to jack off. They want to get to the sex. All of the things mentioned speed up the process to getting to sex (that's also why they peep and spy all the time; for the audience).
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     - Incest is not very common.* Despite what the ever-growing number of incest porn games would have you believe, incest is not happening in every other house. Again, unless there's an excuse (like in A New Home), that relationship would probably require some crazy reasoning (like breaking both your arms and being unable to jack off). Or you'd have to live in Alabama.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Yo wait guys. If all of these new porn incest games just had a line "set in Alabama", wouldn't everything instantly make sense?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <i>
                      *As for why incest is so widely spread, that's another story entirely. First of all, it's a fairly common kink, and kinks sell. Also, it provides a very convenient excuse to put girls into the game; instead of coming up with some elaborate backstory, you can just say "is MC's sister".
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                    I'm something of a coder myself, and I know multiple languages. If you're making a game and want a second brain to go over some code, feel free to shoot me a DM!
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                     #79
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                        I can assure you that you don't speak for all women when you say that.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        On the topic of the OP, I think it's fairly simple. The reason people use drugs/blackmail/etc. instead of being nicer is the result of a few factors.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        - Harems rarely happen, and even more rarely work out. While someone might have multiple sexual partners over the course of their life, they will very infrequently maintain more than one at a time. It's incredibly unlikely that a person could maintain two (let alone, say, five) distinct sexual relationships with other people. Thus, it's much easier to just have a reason that they can't leave the relationship.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        - Makes things quicker. Real relationships (unless they're flings) take time to progress to sex, and nobody wants to trudge through a month of dating while they're trying to jack off. They want to get to the sex. All of the things mentioned speed up the process to getting to sex (that's also why they peep and spy all the time; for the audience).
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        - Incest is not very common.* Despite what the ever-growing number of incest porn games would have you believe, incest is not happening in every other house. Again, unless there's an excuse (like in A New Home), that relationship would probably require some crazy reasoning (like breaking both your arms and being unable to jack off). Or you'd have to live in Alabama.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Yo wait guys. If all of these new porn incest games just had a line "set in Alabama", wouldn't everything instantly make sense?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        <i>
                         *As for why incest is so widely spread, that's another story entirely. First of all, it's a fairly common kink, and kinks sell. Also, it provides a very convenient excuse to put girls into the game; instead of coming up with some elaborate backstory, you can just say "is MC's sister".
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                     I can assure you that , although there are exceptions to every rule, people are still individuals across a spectrum, the bulk falls within the middle . I'm quoting the stats coming from academia sources, not pulling it out from my ass. Lets take Scandinavia, where the effort to remove outside constraints between sexes went further. They find out that when they did that, , job preferences became even more extreme. Women chose Healthcare and Education, Men went  Hard Sciences. The only way they found to mitigate that, was by massive propaganda campaigns, ironically reproducing the outside constraints they set out to erradicate in the first place. Now, did every single Woman chose to be a Doctor or a Nurse, or a Teacher ? No. But the bulk of them did. Same thing here. The vast majority of Women chose equal or above Men in the Social-Economic Ladder, but you can't find this info in "Women Studies ", you have to go through peer reviewed stats coming out of Statistics, something post-modernists can't be bothered with, because facts are sexist.
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                     To be perfectly honest, because i think a lot of the males who play and make these games are simply assholes themselves who want to hold power over women. I imagine there is significant overlap between the ugly part of part of the incel crowd, even those who cheer on the likes of Elliot Rodger and Alek Minassian, and people who play porn games.
                     <br/>
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                     There's a lot of people like that in this. Hopefully it's not most. Hopefully it's a declining number.
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                        I'm quoting the stats coming from academia sources,
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                     i would like to see them, please.
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                        I can assure you that , although there are exceptions to every rule, people are still individuals across a spectrum, the bulk falls within the middle . I'm quoting the stats coming from academia sources, not pulling it out from my ass. Lets take Scandinavia, where the effort to remove outside constraints between sexes went further. They find out that when they did that, , job preferences became even more extreme. Women chose Healthcare and Education, Men went  Hard Sciences. The only way they found to mitigate that, was by massive propaganda campaigns, ironically reproducing the outside constraints they set out to erradicate in the first place. Now, did every single Woman chose to be a Doctor or a Nurse, or a Teacher ? No. But the bulk of them did. Same thing here. The vast majority of Women chose equal or above Men in the Social-Economic Ladder, but you can't find this info in "Women Studies ", you have to go through peer reviewed stats coming out of Statistics, something post-modernists can't be bothered with, because facts are sexist.
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                     I have a number of questions, the most pressing of which is how any of that is related to the statement "They want a Dangerous man who they can tame"? But I doubt this is the right thread for this discussion, so let's leave it here or continue it in PMs.
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                    I'm something of a coder myself, and I know multiple languages. If you're making a game and want a second brain to go over some code, feel free to shoot me a DM!
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                        I have a number of question, the most pressing of which is how any of this related to the statement "They want a Dangerous man who they can tame"? But I doubt this is the right thread for this discussion, so let's leave it here or continue it in PMs.
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                     The place is kinda deserted anyway. No problemo. But i thought i expanded enough on that on my comment. Someone who can stand up for himself, not a wimp. I was trying to keep it short, maybe my English isn't good enough, but i thought i made that point clear enough. "NOT A WIMP ".
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                        The place is kinda deserted anyway. No problemo. But i thought i expanded enough on that on my comment. Someone who can stand up for himself, not a wimp. I was trying to keep it short, maybe my English isn't good enough, but i thought i made that point clear enough. "NOT A WIMP ".
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                     No, see, your first post was talking about "being a man" and evolutionary stuff, not being a wimp, and status. I said that while some women might feel that way, not all do. In your response to
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                     , you talked about women and men choosing different careers? Or something? I'm just not seeing the logical connection from A to B.
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                     I think you can have a male protagonist who is a "flawed nice/kind guy".  He genuinely cares about the women in his life and the women he's attracted to, and he generally just tries to win them over through being attentive, generous, supportive, affectionate and loving.  However, he is still frequently led astray by his "secondary brain", and engages in acts which tend to fortuitously also lead to the women being led astray by their own "secondary brain"(i.e., induces arousal or lust or decreases inhibition).  There may be a magical element or "magical realism" element which explicates some of the irrational, lustful behavior in-game, just enough to make even a "happy harem ending" remotely plausible.  The MC isn't constantly peeping, groping, blackmailing, corrupting or mind-controlling the female characters in the game, but occasionally, "shit happens".  So, he's Sir Galahad, only with shit on his boots.
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                     I think it is because it is so much easier to write erotic content for a bad guy than what it is for a nice guy. By being an asshole you get more opportunities for sex in games as they are justified by the character's traits. But if a "nice" MC wants to have sex with all the women there is, there's a fine balance a developer must find when writing dialogue/events to not have the MC cross over to the asshole territory.
                     <br/>
                     Personally I prefer games where the MC and NPCs are likeable. I simply can't immerse myself in a game that forces me to do bad things to women; that doesn't turn me on for one bit. But I understand that it is a fetish for other players and I have nothing against that. Whatever floats your boat.
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                     Well, I am a well-behaved person in real life, so I look to games as a way of doing things I would never be doing in real life. Why is it fun to kill people in GTA or torture a family in The Sims? Because it is something you can't do in real life and it is just entertaining to experience a glimpse of a different reality.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Of course we could easily have games, in which you have to go onto tinder, get rejected 172 times before finding a girl willing to meet you, then get turned down, go back to tinder and try another 102 attempts to find a new girl, who turns out to not be the Arianna Grande twin that her profile picture suggested, but something closer to Hillary Clinton and run away from her as fast as possible, cycle through another 45.7 girls on tinder, until you find another who is interested in you and willing to hook up with you, and you end up marrying her, find out she has been cheating on you with your brother who has a bigger dick than you, and that she was only dating you for your money, lose half your shit in the divorce and then resort to spend the rest of game drinking beer and pitying yourself. (Read this sentence in a single breath, I dare ya!)
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                     OR
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                     You could have a game where you are surrounded by smoking hot girls and you end up fucking all of them into a sweaty pile of flesh, using your dick - which is the size of your average anaconda - because you you dont care about their feelings and blackmailed them with their naked photos or held a gun to their head, or whatever reason.
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                     <br/>
                     One of these games sounds pretty damn boring. The other sounds like a fun trip away from my usual reality. Guess which one I will pick?
                     <br/>
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                     Basically, I almost always look for games, which allows me to be an asshole to women, because it is something i would never do in real life and I find it fun to just use women as slaves and not giving a shit about their precious feelings.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If you still don't understand my point, try the following: Upload a 10 minute video to Youtube of you sitting in your kitchen, eating breakfast, like a normal person. Next upload a video where you walk up to Miley Cyrus or Emma Watson (any celebrity, male or female) and punch them in the face. Now compare which video gets the most views.
                     <br/>
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                     People are usually looking for an escape from their daily life in games, and that is a big reason as to why so many of these adult games have assholes in them.
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                        No, see, your first post was talking about "being a man" and evolutionary stuff, not being a wimp, and status. I said that while some women might feel that way, not all do. In your response to
                        <i>
                         that
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                        , you talked about women and men choosing different careers? Or something? I'm just not seeing the logical connection from A to B.
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                     You're cherrypicking. I said the vast majority, you replied "not all", i hate "not all " conversations, and gave another example of how Statistics actually works. For every rule, there are exceptions, sure, but the rule is still there. If you come across a poll that says "75% disapprove of the Trump Administration", you can't spin it as "some might, not all do. " It's like the stat that says that Women on average are two degrees standard deviation more Neurotic than Men on average. It doesn't say "all Women are Neurotic". It doesn't even even say " All Women are more Neurotic than all the Men ".  Now, if we start poking around the "why is that ", then we get into the evolutionary stuff. Men are expendable. Women aren't, so that's why Evolution made Men more prone to take risks, while Women are more risk averse. There's also a standard deviation degree in Orderliness, in favor of Women, perhaps because Women felt the need to keep a clean and safe environment for the Children , who might otherwise get sick and die. Women are also more Agreeable on average than Men ( that's where the Toxic Masculinity bs comes from ) because Women's nervous system had to deal with taking care of small infants. Twenty years of pseudo science by "Gender Studies ", are not enough to erase 600 million years of Evolution.
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                     Hmm.  My offhand impression is that the people who enjoy these games come from all ends of the political and ideological spectrum and have diverse tastes and life experiences.  I'm certainly open to hearing various sociological "theories" or what have you, but generally I think it's better to focus on what people might be able to find agreement upon.  It is true that gender roles have changed substantially over the past century or so.  There is lively debate over what the terms "masculine" and "feminine" mean nowadays, in both a positive sense and negative sense.  So if an "asshole MC" in a male-protagonist game is an example of "negative masculinity", then it raises the question, how would one portray a "good guy MC" who is an exemplar of "positive masculinity", and create a game that is enjoyable and engaging for most players?
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                     Oh dear! Just about one of the dumbest questions ever asked. Isn't it obvious? We come here and some other sites for adult entertainment and content because most of the Mainstream Gaming Industry cant or wont provide such. I wont waste a single bean for instance on PC games that cant be heavily modded to provide adult content.
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                        Hmm.  My offhand impression is that the people who enjoy these games come from all ends of the political and ideological spectrum and have diverse tastes and life experiences.  I'm certainly open to hearing various sociological "theories" or what have you, but generally I think it's better to focus on what people might be able to find agreement upon.  It is true that gender roles have changed substantially over the past century or so.  There is lively debate over what the terms "masculine" and "feminine" mean nowadays, in both a positive sense and negative sense.  So if an "asshole MC" in a male-protagonist game is an example of "negative masculinity", then it raises the question, how would one portray a "good guy MC" who is an exemplar of "positive masculinity", and create a game that is enjoyable and engaging for most players?
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                     Maybe someone like James Bond who uses charisma and wit intead of rape and blackmail, does more with his life than perv over family members and generally treat women well while he is with them, even though he tends to move on to the next very quickly (but that'd expected in a porn game).
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                        Maybe someone like James Bond who uses charisma and wit intead of rape and blackmail, does more with his life than perv over family members and generally treat women well while he is with them, even though he tends to move on to the next very quickly (but that'd expected in a porn game).
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                     I started writing a trashy detective novel back in the day.  The main character was a highly educated and refined kickboxing private eye, whose nickname was "The Wolf".  One of the conceits was that he was a notorious womanizer, but distinguishable from a "dog" in that "a wolf is honest about his nature".  Women who dated him knew what they were getting into.  A thrill ride, even a luxury ride, but "lease only".
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                     I don't really see it as different than GTA or Breaking Bad. A fucked up protagonist is more interesting than an unremarkable one. All the nice guy games have identical protagonists. You need SOME edge.
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                     I don't really get the attitude that some content types should not be in games. If George RR Martin can put something in a book, you should be able to have it in a game. Just hit the back button instead of bitching that something exists. As soon as I see the scat tag, that's what I do. If there's something you don't like, do that. Leave the people who enjoy that in peace.
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                        Thornhill said:
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                     Sorry if it seemed like I was cherrypicking, I was honestly confused. As to your point here, I'd like to see any statistics you have other than a gut feeling that make you think the majority of women a certain type of man.
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                        I don't really see it as different than GTA or Breaking Bad. A fucked up protagonist is more interesting than an unremarkable one. All the nice guy games have identical protagonists. You need SOME edge.
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                     Well, to be fair, all the not-nice guy games also have identical protagonists (some dude that will stop at nothing short of murder to fuck his mom, probably). I think it's mostly about expediency and wish fulfilment, both of which require some abnormal means.
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                    I'm something of a coder myself, and I know multiple languages. If you're making a game and want a second brain to go over some code, feel free to shoot me a DM!
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                     Probably because in real life we can't be assholes all of the time? and just from the story angle assholes are more interesting because I feel they have more layers to their personality while good guys are just one dimensinoal in all games.
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                     Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do?
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                     Whatcha gonna do when they come for you?
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                     <br/>
                     When you were eight and you had bad traits
                     <br/>
                     You go to school and learn the golden rule
                     <br/>
                     So why are you acting like a bloody fool?
                     <br/>
                     If you get hot, you must get
                     <img alt=":cool:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite672" data-shortname=":cool:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Cool    :cool:"/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     ...
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                     <br/>
                     Edited, to be ontopic:
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                     I dislike how this world :RarePepe: managed to put everything in just two categories: good or bad, atheist or believer, black or white, this or that etc.
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                     From my point of view there are no such things.
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                     There is just the ignorance and different degrees of it, zillion shades of ignorance.
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                     And yes, I'm a ignorant too :FuckYea: but at least I try everyday to become, less ignorant.
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                     I think, it's because games let people do, what do would never do in real life. They play with the thrill of breaking taboos. Many fetishes work better with a villain protagonist than with a hero or average person. These games play with the darkest fantasies of the players. Especially with porn games I also think that is one thing porn games do better than other genres of porn.
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                     While I think heroic characters could also work in some settings, I think average people would be just boring in porn games. So in other words, being the evil overlord who abductes the princess is fine, as is being the noble knight who saves her. Being the average guy who fucks his wife after coming home from work is boring, though.
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                     Cause playing a "average joe" is boring and would most likely have you experience far less in the games than you do with what some of you call assholes. There are lesser evils in these games, like Corruption isnt always about being an asshole. In some of the games it's done with a progression where the corruption isnt done through magic or potions or shit and it's more about being that atleast half decent. But the fantasy imo. wouldnt work with a nice guy, cause you wouldnt get there. Aint no nice normal dude gonna try to fuck his mom or sister or daughter. That's just not gonna heppen. Or blackmail anyone for sex. I dont see most of these really taboo fantasies working with a normal nice guy. And i dont think a single person love story romantic shiz would be interesting. Not for me atleast.
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                        It seems to me that in the vast majority of porn games, male characters, either as PC or as major characters, are absolute assholes.
                        <br/>
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                        They:
                        <br/>
                        - Rape
                        <br/>
                        - Abuse
                        <br/>
                        - Blackmail
                        <br/>
                        - Cheat
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                        etc.
                        <br/>
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                        At best, they are just opportunists (Dreaming of Dana), at worst, they are borderline criminals (Big Brother).
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                        Why are there not more games with nice / normal male characters?
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                        In quite a lot of games, I kinda feel sorry for the girls that the MC is fucking...
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                     I think a lot of people like to explore their "dark side" in games.  Doesn't mean they would really do a lot of that stuff IRL even if they had the chance to.  The more mainstream stuff they're more likely to already be doing in real life so you don't need a fantasy for that.  For instance, I do like incest porn/games but would have no interest in doing that IRL.  Same goes for a lot of the corruption/rough stuff.  It's fun in a game but that's not me IRL.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     My mind comes up with all sorts of stuff it would like to do to people that rub me the wrong way IRL as well that I would never do.  But in a game I can do that stuff without any consequences to me or anyone else.
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                        I think a lot of people like to explore their "dark side" in games.  Doesn't mean they would really do a lot of that stuff IRL even if they had the chance to.  The more mainstream stuff they're more likely to already be doing in real life so you don't need a fantasy for that.  For instance, I do like incest porn/games but would have no interest in doing that IRL.  Same goes for a lot of the corruption/rough stuff.  It's fun in a game but that's not me IRL.
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                        My mind comes up with all sorts of stuff it would like to do to people that rub me the wrong way IRL as well that I would never do.  But in a game I can do that stuff without any consequences to me or anyone else.
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                     I get that, really. But you don't have to be a dick when you do these things. Big Brother for example, could work fine with a nicer MC (basically you end up with Man of the House, Milfy City and a number of other games) but the dev made him an asshole for no reason whatsoever.
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                     Other games, such as Lab Rats and The Takeover revolve around questionable or downright immoral science projects. There it makes sense to be an asshole. To be honest, one of the most memorable scenes in all these games is in The Takeover
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                         when you put your own mother in the brian-washing machine and she wakes up with your cum on her face.
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                     That's priceless!
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                     But again, in several games the MC is just being a douchebag for no apparent reason. This I dislike.
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                     : black seems to be in the majority for most of the screen though
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