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   Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines.  Discussion Thread | F95zone
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So, at least one developer has had their account suspended today by Patreon for including incest in his game.

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              Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines.  Discussion Thread
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="OhWee · Oct 19, 2017 at 7:25 AM" data-lb-id="post-255785">
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                         EDIT BY
                         <a class="username" data-user-id="2222" data-username="@Bloo" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" href="https://f95zone.to/members/2222/">
                          @Bloo
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                         Please discuss all the new Patreon guidelines here. Direct people talking in game section to this thread. Thank you.
                        </span>
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                      </b>
                     </u>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So, at least one developer has had their account suspended today by Patreon for including incest in his game.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So that everyone here is aware, here are the updated Patreon guidelines as of yesterday (October 17th)
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote">
                      <div class="bbCodeBlock-content">
                       <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent">
                        <b>
                         Adult Patreon Community Guidelines
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        <a class="link link--external" href="https://www.patreon.com/guidelines#adult-content" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         Community Guidelines | Patreon
                        </a>
                        <br/>
                        <b>
                         Last updated: October 17, 2017
                        </b>
                        <br/>
                        We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes
                        <b>
                         bestiality, rape, and child exploitation
                        </b>
                        (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors). This is true for illustrated, animated, or any other type of content. Patreon reserves the right to review and remove accounts that may violate this guideline. As a strong commitment to child safety, we will work with law enforcement whenever we come across child exploitation.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as
                        <b>
                         incest, necrophilia, or fetish content
                        </b>
                        that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life.  As a result, when reviewing this type of content, the Trust and Safety Team will take into account context including personal, historical, or educational narrative.  For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game Of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
                       </div>
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                        </a>
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                     </blockquote>
                     My suggestion to you is that, if you have any such content in your games, that you start contemplating 'sanitized' versions for Patreon releases, perhaps with 'full' versions being made available via other means...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     The 'we will work with law enforcement' part could be an issue...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     It'd suck to see your revenue stream disappear.  Sure, you can play the lottery if you have any objectionable content (as far as Patreon is concerned), but watching your income stream suddenly disappear would suck.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Food for thought...
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     <span style="color: #4dff4d">
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                       Edit: Added third paragraph that wasn't shared before.  The 'Fictional' context does make this murky...
                      </i>
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                        We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as
                        <b>
                         incest, necrophilia, or fetish content
                        </b>
                        that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.
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                     This is surprisingly vague and imprecise as worded because of the serial commas. Are they stating they do not allow incest full-stop, or are they banning incest when it becomes "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex"...?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     There are definitely some incest games out there where the dynamic is one were a person could argue that a father or brother or mother is using their position of
                     <i>
                      power
                     </i>
                     over a daughter or sister or son to gain sexual gratification. Some games include incest without that being the primary pursuit. But in most of the incest games the
                     <i>
                      consensual
                     </i>
                     aspect is pretty clear.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Definitely good food for thought... I'll be chewing away on my idea for starting a site called Party-on-dot-com that allows for such things, contacting devs directly to move their patrons to my new platform, then watching the money flow in :closedtongue:
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                     they must leave alone incest and block all games with NTR or cuck
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                     Wow. If they would really ban all those games with these fetishes it would be like 90% of them less including all of the giants like BB, DMD or SS. I don't really care for incest but I'm kinda afraid how they perceive rape as many of games have their sexual content pretty violent while not being rape. Hate this situation, I despise overflow of incest in every game but I would never go so far to ban any fetish. That way devs will go underground once again
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                     One developer in question (Mr. Dots) was able to get his Patreon page reactivated.  It looks like all references to the game title Dating My Daughter have been removed, although the abbreviation DMD is still mentioned multiple times.  There are also a couple of references to 'daughter', but not in the context of 'father-daughter'.  I haven't dug into his page very hard, but that's what jumps out at me.
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                     It not just Patreon it is the FCC in the US pushing these Guide lines to all the hosting sites
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                     I guess the devs just have to remove any reference to such content, or hide it as a 'step-child' or some other non-blood related property and they should be fine.  Concidering Mr.Dot sent out messages about this, and another game I am a Patreon to also changed every mention of daughters to step-daughters.  Ah the good old nuts, where in the south cousins can marry.
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                        FXM said:
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                        they must leave alone incest and block all games with NTR or cuck
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                     Hehe, yeah... block games with incest who are usually the best games overall but leave the other that are more high up on the perversity scale, like rape, ntr, bdsm, etc ?! I seem to find myself playing mostly games with incest theme/fetish not because of the incest but because most of them are better in terms of story and graphics... besides, many incest themed games also have other fetishes like the ones mentioned above, so basically if they ban games with incest content then they also must ban the other fetishes. If Patreon wants to shoot themselves in the foot, so be it ! Oh, and servers can be moved to other country/s than the US, which slowly seems that wants to be a new North Korea or something.
                     <br/>
                     What the hell is this FCC thinking about ?!... did suddenly all the males in US started to bang their own moms because of the games from Patreon or something ?! I guess this can be called... A TRUMPISM. Hehehehe !
                     <br/>
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                     "For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game Of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon"... does this mean that the devs can simply introduce an announcement/warning (besides the Adult 18 tag) at the beginning of the game, something like "This game/story is FICTIONAL. Any resemblance with any persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental." ?!
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                     Rape is mentioned as well so it goes as well. It's not only about incest. No point in talking about NTR which isn't forced but is a simple jealousy nor BDSM which is an act. Crappy decision that will affect whole market strongly.
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                     This will be a problem for the vast majority of adult games on Patreon cause incest is a very common thing.
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                     I really hope this doesn't interfere with ICSTOR's work because if I don't get the end to Incest Story 2 and Milf's Villa, I'm gonna throw a tantrum lol.
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                     Er... I agree with the underage thing, but aren't more than 50% of the adult games on Patreon incest games in a way or another ? And in the other half, there's a lot of corruption games which can be seen as "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex".
                     <br/>
                     They're shooting a bullet in their own foot by doing this. But the funny part is that they targeted DMD, while icstor have made game with way more explicit names and content. Oh, wait, his games are name "in-c story" now... I'm sure that he also have rewrote all his finished games to remove the incest content... Wait, what do you mean by, "you"re really gullible" ?
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                     I assume we will have to deal with a lot of step-mom/sister/aunt/daugther/dad/son in the future.
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                     If they would check actual content, it would be over for Patreon as a platform for erotic developers. Consensual sex isn't enough for a market. Devs would go underground until new platform would appear. That would mean 99% devs would be gone and western games would be hobbistic niche as they were years ago. The best case scenario in which paywall is enough to prevent game from being banned means that incest as a genre won't be a thing anymore and something else will have to replace it sooner or later. What a mess
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                     With how things are going in the world and how things are changing i'm surprised it's taken this long.
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                     Youtube going all "advertiser friendly" and dropping the ad revenue of anyone with questionable content and social media going all "won't someone think of the children". It was only a matter of time before Patreon caught up.
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                        Er... I agree with the underage thing, but aren't more than 50% of the adult games on Patreon incest games in a way or another ? And in the other half, there's a lot of corruption games which can be seen as "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex".
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                        They're shooting a bullet in their own foot by doing this. But the funny part is that they targeted DMD, while icstor have made game with way more explicit names and content. Oh, wait, his games are name "in-c story" now... I'm sure that he also have rewrote all his finished games to remove the incest content... Wait, what do you mean by, "you"re really gullible" ?
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                        I assume we will have to deal with a lot of step-mom/sister/aunt/daugther/dad/son in the future.
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                     If you actually go and have a look on Graphtreon, the vast majority of the top ranking adult games/animations are either incest or furry/bestiality.
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                     So yeah they might as well just shut down the whole idea of adult content I guess.
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                        Rape is mentioned as well so it goes as well. It's not only about incest. No point in talking about NTR which isn't forced but is a simple jealousy nor BDSM which is an act. Crappy decision that will affect whole market strongly.
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                     I think there is a confusion here... from what I've read, NTR is something from the asian/japanese culture and it's usually a situation where you're forced due to blackmail, the need to survive or even life threatening situations to have a loved one doing a sexual act (usually without his/her and your will) while you watch, or even being restrained yourself (even your loved one too) so you cannot intervene. It's something that usually creates anger, desperation (due to the fact that you're rendered powerless because you cannot intervene), shock, fear, a psychological trauma to both the one that watches and the one being watched.
                     <br/>
                     In the western culture and even in the newly asian/japanese times NTR has been watered down due to restriction so that looks more like cuckolding and there lies the confusion. NTR IS NOT CUCKOLDING. Cuckolding is done willingly... you simply like to see a loved one doing a sexual act while you watch and the loved one is also doing this willingly... and this excites the watcher, gives him/her pleasure and allows to have a quicker and/or more powerful orgasm.
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                        I think there is a confusion here... from what I've read, NTR is something from the asian/japanese culture and it's usually a situation where you're forced due to blackmail, the need to survive or even life threatening situations to have a loved one doing a sexual act (usually without his/her and your will) while you watch, or even being restrained yourself (even your loved one too) so you cannot intervene. It's something that usually creates anger, desperation (due to the fact that you're rendered powerless because you cannot intervene), shock, fear, a psychological trauma to both the one that watches and the one being watched.
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                        In the western culture and even in the newly asian/japanese times NTR has been watered down due to restriction so that looks more like cuckolding and there lies the confusion. NTR IS NOT CUCKOLDING. Cuckolding is done willingly... you simply like to see a loved one doing a sexual act while you watch and the loved one is also doing this willingly... and this excites the watcher, gives him/her pleasure and allows to have a quicker and/or more powerful orgasm.
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                     I'm a huge fan of NTR and I play games in japanese as well. NTR has a couple of different types with jealousy as a central point. It might be rape so it would be banned as well, but usually it's just a seduction that's being unwillingly observed by a guy. He doesn't even have to be a boyfriend/husband of a girl. It's about emotions. One of the most famous games with hentai made on its base is True Blue. MC is just a childhood friend. Ofc blackmail is an often thing but I don't think they would go so far to ban it as it's always a willing act in games. All in all I don't think NTR is affected by these bans. It's not topic about it so let's stop it here. It doesn't matter what fetishes they're banning as it's always bad for players
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                        With how things are going in the world and how things are changing i'm surprised it's taken this long.
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                        Youtube going all "advertiser friendly" and dropping the ad revenue of anyone with questionable content and social media going all "won't someone think of the children". It was only a matter of time before Patreon caught up.
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                     Yeah... and all because of bad parenting. Because many parents these days are clueless to technology... the term "parental block" usually escapes them. They like to be able to work or have their free time while their kids are being baby sited/educated by the online jungle. And when they catch them watching/playing inappropriate content, it's everyone else's fault but never their own. So they go and whine to the authorities and thus we get... North Korea state.
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                     This reminds me of that mom that bought GTA 5 for her 14 yo son... then said it was the store's fault or something. This is the level of ignorance that some have.
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                        I'm a huge fan of NTR and I play games in japanese as well. NTR has a couple of different types with jealousy as a central point. It might be rape so it would be banned as well, but usually it's just a seduction that's being unwillingly observed by a guy. He doesn't even have to be a boyfriend/husband of a girl. It's about emotions. One of the most famous games with hentai made on its base is True Blue. MC is just a childhood friend. Ofc blackmail is an often thing but I don't think they would go so far to ban it as it's always a willing act in games. All in all I don't think NTR is affected by these bans. It's not topic about it so let's stop it here. It doesn't matter what fetishes they're banning as it's always bad for players
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                     Not sure but won't NTR content that is included in incest games be affected as well ?! But yes, I agree that it's not about fetishes but about the ban itself.
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                        Not sure but won't NTR content that is included in incest games be affected as well ?! But yes, I agree that it's not about fetishes but about the ban itself.
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                     Ofc, if they would ban games looking at their content any game would go down with incest in it so it could be possible. But even consensual sex would go down if there would be incest in a game in that case. I was talking about NTR as a reason for ban. It's nothing about violence so it shouldn't affect. If you thought about BB then yes, if they would ban it, NTR there would be gone as well. I hate some fetishes but I'm willing to fight for your right to fap to any weird shit you wish for! \m/
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                     Either way, I can't help but think it will scare off potential game designers from attempting to develop future adult games with regards to using Patreon as a monetary platform for getting their projects funded and off the ground.  While I can understand Patreon's reasoning and the legalities behind such a move, here's hoping that folks find a more welcoming platform elsewhere that's a bit more geared towards games of the adult community.  Honestly, so long as the content provided is clearly stated as being of a fictional nature and are involving only those over the legal age, I don't see why there should be any problem, regardless of the fetishes involved.
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                     It's a matter of mentality. States thing. I wonder what would happen with Japan if they would ban erotic content in games. USA is quite creepy sometimes
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                        It's a matter of mentality. States thing. I wonder what would happen with Japan if they would ban erotic content in games. USA is quite creepy sometimes
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                     They'd probably find some way to include those fun Japanese Porn Game Shows in that case.  I'd be sad.  Sure, they are fake, but nonetheless it's fun to watch the porn actors portraying normal people, who end up having to fuck each other because of how the 'game show' rules work.
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                        They'd probably find some way to include those fun Japanese Porn Game Shows in that case. I'd be sad. Sure, they are fake, but nonetheless it's fun to watch the porn actors portraying normal people, who end up having to fuck each other because of how the 'game show' rules work.
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                     Yeah. Sexual culture of Japan is impressive. It's so deep within their culture that those american ideas feel abstract for them. Thank God for that
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Oct 19, 2017 at 10:39 AM" data-lb-id="post-256208">
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                        Vik_Brenner_66 said:
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                        This is the level of ignorance that some have.
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                     Of course they are ignorant, but because they want to.
                     <br/>
                     Parenting is a job and it mean that you need at least to implicate yourself in the life of your child, and be aware of some norms, like age restrictions but not only this. If you don't want to do that, then you aren't ignorant, you're just a stupid irresponsible selfish brat and shouldn't have had the right to have a child.
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                     Perhaps I flare up a little too much, but seriously, what to think when some don't even take the responsibility of their own errors and blame them on others ? After the fact that video games make you violent (because everybody know that violence started in the 1970, never before there was a single act of violence), now it's what ? Adult games that make you rapist ?
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Well, I have something to tell you, if your son is a depraved rapist, it's only because you refused to talk about sex with him. He had to learn it by itself, without no one to guide him and correct his misconceptions, no one to tell him that fetishism can be a thing for some people, but that consent MUST be a thing for everyone... How do you expected it to end ?
                     <br/>
                     Yes, of course adult games depict things that aren't really a good behavior, but like shooter they are an... what's the English word ? In french it's "exutoire"... Well, whatever, they're a way to express what they feel without doing any harms to others.
                     <br/>
                     Ban them, and you'll have more depraved rapists, not less...
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                     You know, I think I'VE FIGURED THIS OUT. This shit with the new FCC rules is just a front. The real objective is to cut out the money that goes from USA to Russia mostly and then other countries... think about it, how many russian games on Patreon that get revenue from people in US ?! Most games that I play from Patreon are made by russian devs. Tinfoil hat off
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                        Of course they are ignorant, but because they want to.
                        <br/>
                        Parenting is a job and it mean that you need at least to implicate yourself in the life of your child, and be aware of some norms, like age restrictions but not only this. If you don't want to do that, then you aren't ignorant, you're just a stupid irresponsible selfish brat and shouldn't have had the right to have a child.
                        <br/>
                        Perhaps I flare up a little too much, but seriously, what to think when some don't even take the responsibility of their own errors and blame them on others ? After the fact that video games make you violent (because everybody know that violence started in the 1970, never before there was a single act of violence), now it's what ? Adult games that make you rapist ?
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Well, I have something to tell you, if your son is a depraved rapist, it's only because you refused to talk about sex with him. He had to learn it by itself, without no one to guide him and correct his misconceptions, no one to tell him that fetishism can be a thing for some people, but that consent MUST be a thing for everyone... How do you expected it to end ?
                        <br/>
                        Yes, of course adult games depict things that aren't really a good behavior, but like shooter they are an... what's the English word ? In french it's "exutoire"... Well, whatever, they're a way to express what they feel without doing any harms to others.
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                        Ban them, and you'll have more depraved rapists, not less...
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                     Oui, tu as raison. Hehe, I'm not french but studied it like a year or two in high school and still remember some things.
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                     The Patreon text is... well, at the very least, contradictory and, like I said in another thread, highly hypocritical. On the one hand, as was said, due to the ambiguous writing it is hard to infere whether they are considering ALL incest as banned content or only that which is "hard to distinguish from non consexual sex". In my view, I think it is the former, as the clarification that comes after that won't make much sense otherwise.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     If we take this premise, what comes next is even worse. The "...these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life" bit is absolutely stupid. If the fact that they are part of real life is the element that makes these things "complicated", it makes absolutely no sense to just pick incest or rape. Fucking ritual, sex-related cannibalism is as real a thing as incest; establishing real-life cases as the reference point by which to allow or completely ban some content is pointless.
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                     And, finally, the treatment part. If the content is going to be allowed ONLY if it is treated, developed narratively in a certain way... well, this is yelling hypocrisy so loud it hurts. Hypocrisy because, in the first place, Game of Thrones is marked as an example of acceptable fiction, and if there is a mainstream work that includes all kind of creepy content (sex-related or not), this is Martin's series. Rape, child abuse, all kind of psychopathic behaviour, and, of course, incest relationships of all kind (romantic, abusive, toxic). If stories like GoT or Lolita (a piece of fiction written from the point of view of paedophile which allows the reader to immerse in his worldview) are allowed, almost everything should be allowed that provides a more or less clear narrative progression (and, now that I come to think of it, maybe this bit is not bat at all). But if, as the sanctimonious tone of the text seems to suggest, what they are going to take into account is whether the story is not just for the sake of fun and kinky pleasure, then creators might just have to make sure they 'Sansanise' their characters; that is, they can submit them to any kind of perversity, including being raped by a dog-lover psychopath, if they are reinforced by the experience and end up being an example of strenght against appalling circumstances.
                     <br/>
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                     Well, in the end, it seems that this will just end up bringing some changes: some content will have to be properly hidden so as no to hurt some people's feelings (this might mean creators will have to rely more on other sites, like this one, in order to publicise their content) and stories might have to be more carefully conceived so that they can pass the moral (double) standards of Patreon. Not as bad as it could have been.
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                     For completeness, just need to note that the Dreams of Desire Patreon was also suspended today, and placed under review.  I've read that it's just a matter of time before it is restored (at whatever level is acceptable) but as of this post I'm still seeing the 'under review' message.
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                        This is surprisingly vague and imprecise as worded because of the serial commas. Are they stating they do not allow incest full-stop, or are they banning incest when it becomes "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex"...?
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                     You can essentially read it as
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                        We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as
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                         incest
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                     So I assume yes, incest games are probably no longer allowed.
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                     They'll probably have to do the same thing SR7 does and advertise a different clean game for Patreon, then do their TOS violating games through a blog and have those advertised as free games.
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                        For completeness, just need to note that the Dreams of Desire Patreon was also suspended today, and placed under review.  I've read that it's just a matter of time before it is restored (at whatever level is acceptable) but as of this post I'm still seeing the 'under review' message.
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                         Patreon: Content Under Review
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                        If you notice any others, feel free to post them up.
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                     imo that's incredibly unprofessional and unethical for Patreon to just pull the rug out from content creators without warning.
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                     They have to know that a lot of them have quit their jobs because of funding from Patreon, and to just suspend and probably kill an entire campaign is something only a total sociopath could do.
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                     OK, I saw a portion of these in another post, so posting them here for completeness...
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                     Wow! It sounds like the Puritans have landed at Patreon. Next thing you know they'll be demanding politically correct games.
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                         Lastly, you cannot sell pornographic material or arrange sexual service(s) as a reward for your patrons. You can’t use Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material such as maintaining a website, funding the production of movies, or providing a private webcam session.
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                     Maybe here someone will tell me what it means. Doesn't it mean that every dev is breaking those rules as every reward is connected with their games which are pornographic material?
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                        Maybe here someone will tell me what it means. Doesn't it mean that every dev is breaking those rules as every reward is connected with their games which are pornographic material?
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                     I would say that might have to do with some people using Patreon accounts to offer nude pics of themselves or, as is said, webcam shows.
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                     I think much of it has to do with the fact that adult content is supposed to be a patron only post, it can be a free patron only post, but many developers have been posting nude images as public.  Before today a few games that I know of, sure there is more out there, have been breaking the Patreon adult content rules.  I think some of this is cracking down on the rules and making the stiffer to combat these infringements on the rules.
                     <br/>
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                     The new wording is confusing.  Someone obviously tried to write it in legalese.  I think the main points are that any adult content posted on Patreon has to be in a patron post and not a public one, and no forced content.  It seems the last paragraph would point to the fact that as long as it is fiction, not RL life content, then it most cases it will be allowed as long as it is sexual violence in some way.  DMD's site is already back up, so we know that consenting incest and corruption will be allowed.
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                     Though, I am hoping that Patreon will post a clarification or re-word the clause as I am sure they are probably getting flooded with questions, etc.
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                     This is probably because of some teen somewhere using his parents credit card to sub on one of the adult devs and parents sending in a complain.
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                        Lastly, you cannot sell pornographic material or arrange sexual service(s) as a reward for your patrons. You can’t use Patreon to raise funds in order to produce pornographic material such as maintaining a website, funding the production of movies, or providing a private webcam session.
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                        Maybe here someone will tell me what it means. Doesn't it mean that every dev is breaking those rules as every reward is connected with their games which are pornographic material?
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                     Yeah I'm struggling with this paragraph too.  As I read that, nobody making an adult game can ask for funds on Patreon, because they are producing pornographic material, and it'd be hard to prove that the funds raised aren't being used for the production of said pornographic material.
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                     As I read this EVERY SINGLE adult game developer who solicits for donations on patreon has run afoul of this paragraph.  Obviously, Mr. Dots got through this dragnet somehow though so I guess Patreon is just ''putting on a show" for the feds.
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                        The new wording is confusing.  Someone obviously tried to write it in legalese.  I think the main points are that any adult content posted on Patreon has to be in a patron post and not a public one, and no forced content.  It seems the last paragraph would point to the fact that as long as it is fiction, not RL life content, then it most cases it will be allowed as long as it is sexual violence in some way.  DMD's site is already back up, so we know that consenting incest and corruption will be allowed.
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                        Though, I am hoping that Patreon will post a clarification or re-word the clause as I am sure they are probably getting flooded with questions, etc.
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                     Regarding real-life content, I think their adding the "educational, personal stories" means that, either pure fiction or based on real events, what matters the most is the tone of the story. In my view, they are implying that, if the content conveys some story of superation or whatever, then it will be favourably looked upon. Otherwise... But, as I said before, adding Got and Lolita as examples of acceptable fiction makes everything anything but clear. And the fact that games showing incest, etc., that had been taken down are already back should mean that, for the moment, all they are asking is discretion regarding problematic content.
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                     I took the "educational, personal stories" to mean in regards to survivor stories of Rape, etc.
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                        adding Got and Lolita as examples of acceptable fiction makes everything anything but clear.
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                     ... or it is insanely popular and we will lose lots of money...
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                        Yeah I'm struggling with this paragraph too.  As I read that, nobody making an adult game can ask for funds on Patreon, because they are producing pornographic material, and it'd be hard to prove that the funds raised aren't being used for the production of said pornographic material.
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                        As I read this EVERY SINGLE adult game developer who solicits for donations on patreon has run afoul of this paragraph.  Obviously, Mr. Dots got through this dragnet somehow though so I guess Patreon is just ''putting on a show" for the feds.
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                     I overlooked that interpretation because, well, it would just mean the end of Patreon funded games as they exist now. If that were the case, they should be all taken down, and that seems not to be the case (since some are already back, or are saying they are handling things with Patreon).
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                     I seem to recall having seen some camgirls lurking on Patreon accounts (I am sure I saw one spamming on Darkcookie's page). Might this not have something to do with that kind of activity and not porn games? Because, curiously enough, games are not explicitly mentioned there.
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                        Regarding real-life content, I think their adding the "educational, personal stories" means that, either pure fiction or based on real events, what matters the most is the tone of the story. In my view, they are implying that, if the content conveys some story of superation or whatever, then it will be favourably looked upon. Otherwise... But, as I said before, adding Got and Lolita as examples of acceptable fiction makes everything anything but clear. And the fact that games showing incest, etc., that had been taken down are already back should mean that, for the moment, all they are asking is discretion regarding problematic content.
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                     Some of you may be too young to know this unless you just happen to watch older porn vhs's, but a lot of porn distributors back in the day would include an 'educational' disclaimer at the start or end of their videos.  By saying that the porn was of an 'educational' nature, apparently this got past some arcane legal loophole.
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                     My point here being that it might be humorous if porn developers started including 'this game is being made for educational value' disclaimers at the start of their games...
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                        All in all I knew something drastic might happen when I saw that
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                     Yeah I'm already on the record as saying I don't want to see cheetos dick.  Now watching Barron bang Ivanka and Tiffany, I'd be down for that.  Or some black dude, seeing that so many blondes seem to get banged by black dudes in porn...
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                     Or CG Ivanka and Tiffany getting banged by CG Ron Jeremy, seeing that he's been in so many porn videos!
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                     Apparently Ivanka had a punk phase...
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                    <a href="/threads/patreon-is-hardening-their-adult-content-guidelines-discussion-thread.5850/post-256375" rel="nofollow">
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Mark600601 · Oct 19, 2017 at 12:07 PM" data-lb-id="post-256375">
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                        Some of you may be too young to know this unless you just happen to watch older porn vhs's, but a lot of porn distributors back in the day would include an 'educational' disclaimer at the start or end of their videos.  By saying that the porn was of an 'educational' nature, apparently this got past some arcane legal loophole.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        My point here being that it might be humorous if porn developers started including 'this game is being made for educational value' disclaimers at the start of their games...
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                     I chuckled just reading that.
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                     Wouldnt be surprised if new disclaimers akin to that started popping up though
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                        Some of you may be too young to know this unless you just happen to watch older porn vhs's, but a lot of porn distributors back in the day would include an 'educational' disclaimer at the start or end of their videos.  By saying that the porn was of an 'educational' nature, apparently this got past some arcane legal loophole.
                        <br/>
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                        My point here being that it might be humorous if porn developers started including 'this game is being made for educational value' disclaimers at the start of their games...
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                     I was only lucky enough to have seen one porn VHS, which was Eager Beaver.
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                     I don't remember if it ever had a disclaimer before it. If it did, I can say with full confidence that I fast forwarded through it.
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                     This is like Playboy taking out the naked ladies. Seems like they have targeted most of the erotic games they serve, is there a reason Patreon is sabotaging itself.
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                     Government intrusion at it's best.  They've pretty much just censored the vast majority of patreon devs.  It'll be a literal ghost town within a few years time.  People will find other ways to promote and get their content to their fans though.  That's how these things always go.
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                        Some of you may be too young to know this unless you just happen to watch older porn vhs's, but a lot of porn distributors back in the day would include an 'educational' disclaimer at the start or end of their videos.  By saying that the porn was of an 'educational' nature, apparently this got past some arcane legal loophole.
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                        My point here being that it might be humorous if porn developers started including 'this game is being made for educational value' disclaimers at the start of their games...
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                     Oh, I get you. As a writer, I was thinking about how to turn the whole stories into Sansa-like empowering tales as a way to keep the kinky content. I was already picturing similar endings in which the characters would strengthen themselves by going through all the porn staff.
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                     The disclaimer is so silly that it could even work. And surely that would be easier, and much more useful for lazy developers :evilsmile:, than paying extra attention to writing. A Captain America-like character breaking the fourth wall to address the players and remind them the educational values of what they are about to play could be a great addition, too.
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                     I kinda feel like the underage thing is over-thought.  Everything we see in terms of content from main-stream television and movies as well as porn is to made to make people look younger than they actually are.
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                     Any high school drama like Riverdale where there are relationships and sex is all about making older people look like they are in school and as thus underage sex.
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                     Hell, tons of porn, esp a lot of the VR content is fully incest related too.  And porn these days is also going for the look like they are freshmen in high school look.  Hell, porn agents are going to teen hang outs and grooming girls to get into porn as soon as they hit 18, and target the ones that are look especially young.
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                     What does this mean for Patreon?  It probably depends on where the pressure is coming from.  If it's from the government, then likely they are going to keep doing what they are doing and telling people to hide their content behind paywalls.  But if it's internal pressure from stock holders or management to clean up their content, then the porn games will likely have to find a new way of seeking donations, likely just from something outside of the US.
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                     quick add note:  and if this is government related, does this mean they will target stories and series like the books of Game of Thrones since that depicts rape, underage sex and glorificiation of young women.  Hell, Sansa is described by GRR was a women of 3 and 10 just flowering with a full bossom, or something like that.
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                     OK, had my timeline crossed.  Leisure Time Entertainment used to include this with their DVDs...
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                     Anyways, porn games are educational.  Really...
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                        OK, had my timeline crossed.  Leisure Time Entertainment used to include this with their DVDs...
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                        Anyways, porn games are educational.  Really...
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                          nudge nudge wink wink
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                     Honestly, this is quite a good alternative. It's kinda lengthy, but it could work for the ridiculous american system.
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                        DMD's site is already back up, so we know that consenting incest and corruption will be allowed.
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                     They talked about taking count of the context. In DMD, it's clearly incest, since it's a daughter-dad relation, but they haven't seen each other since she was an early child. So, biologically he's her father, but she barely don't know him, he haven't raised her, so technically he's not her father. Plus the fact that the story clearly depict him as reluctant to submit to his desire, and lets things happen naturally. She become corrupted because of the incest thing, but more than that she's clearly seduced by him.
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                     I have more fear for Dreams of desire, don't really know what can save it.
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                    Ren'py:
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                     Track variables
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                     Save compatibiliy
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                     Updated
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                     Write a dynamic Ren'Py game
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                     Does patreon have time and staff resources to manually check each and every content produced by the game devs and artists ?? Can't they just keep the incest in game and not show that part in screenshot or better yet write cryptic and descriptions ? Of course, this might make a impact for future backers but atleast the current funders will continue to fund.
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                     This is crazy, might be time for developers to start looking at other more newer funding sites. This is 100% Nanny state government interference on their sites and it will only get worst as time go's on.
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                     I'm not to worried about this development.
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                     Sure there are going to be a couple devs that are going to think that this is to much trouble and will cancel everthing(especially the newer ones).
                     <br/>
                     But the "big" ones wil updates their homepage and will keep doing what they are doing.
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                     But it would be better if they look into a alternative, because once this shit starts it's going to keep coming..
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                     Another option is that these developers are just going to use Patreon as their payday and only keep basis info there.
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                     And use another site(like this one) to spread the content..
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                        We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence
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                     Alright, so I'm just going to ask... is anyone playing those games for the sake of "
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                     What happens? it's simple. Patreon's CEO will be "santo subito", but after years reports will be ex-CEO
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                        That 18+ pie is almost a quarter full, what happens when you eliminate over 20% of your traffic and revenue?
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                         Click to expand...
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                     Not the whole 20% is about Incest/rape/Corruption etc....
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                        they do it for safety
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                     safety? thought police is safety? i thought its just what people who think they are americans but truly believe in communism like leftist media narrative and youtube does
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                        I wonder if there is another place besides Patreon? Its going to be weird now.
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                     maybe lewdlab and isctor since they make the most money will probably make a site or something
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                     Isctor already has his own site(For a while now)
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                     <a class="link link--external" href="http://icstor.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                      ICSTOR - Incest Story|Milf's Control
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                        Alright, so I'm just going to ask... is anyone playing those games for the sake of "
                        <b>
                         glorifying
                        </b>
                        " real, actual sexual violence? Ever?
                        <br/>
                        The Thought Police of our time is clearly retarded.
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                     the time where liberals think of cultural appropriation on halloween and feminazi sjw and antifa run amok
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                        Isctor already has his own site(For a while now)
                        <br/>
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                        <a class="link link--external" href="http://icstor.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">
                         ICSTOR - Incest Story|Milf's Control
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                     so everyone can make their own site?
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                        Isctor already has his own site(For a while now)
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                         ICSTOR - Incest Story|Milf's Control
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                     The case is that without a platform to distribute it those sites don't really work. You can't gather people and enough funds to continue your project if you're money dependent. Without patreon all these devs will dissapear. Among those hundereds maybe 10 will stay
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                        The case is that without a platform to distribute it those sites don't really work. You can't gather people and enough funds to continue your project if you're money dependent. Without patreon all these devs will dissapear. Among those hundereds maybe 10 will stay
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                     god i hate that truth
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                     #74
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="User_51567 · Oct 19, 2017 at 7:58 PM" data-lb-id="post-256913">
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                        Ignazzio said:
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                        The case is that without a platform to distribute it those sites don't really work. You can't gather people and enough funds to continue your project if you're money dependent. Without patreon all these devs will dissapear. Among those hundereds maybe 10 will stay
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                     Well yeah.
                     <br/>
                     But what i would do is the following.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Make your own website.
                     <br/>
                     Make you own Patreon Page.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Set your rewards system up on Patreon, and the only info on the patreon is a link to your own website.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     On your own website you can do everything you did on Patreon on more.
                     <br/>
                     And release your "monthly" update according to your reward system on Patreon.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     Sure it's a bit more work.... But no BS from patreon...Only your own BS...
                     <br/>
                     And still have your monthly check..
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                     #75
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                        JadabaJD said:
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                        Well yeah.
                        <br/>
                        But what i would do is the following.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Make your own website.
                        <br/>
                        Make you own Patreon Page.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Set your rewards system up on Patreon, and the only info on the patreon is a link to your own website.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        On your own website you can do everything you did on Patreon on more.
                        <br/>
                        And release your "monthly" update according to your reward system on Patreon.
                        <br/>
                        <br/>
                        Sure it's a bit more work.... But no BS from patreon...Only your own BS...
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                         Click to expand...
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                     If you're not from States than sure you can make your own site. But Patreon might ban you just for a link to explicit materials and even if not I doubt it you would make enough money to justify it. Patreon's way of advertising is highly visual so simplifying it to a single link would be pretty bad I assume. It's porn after all.
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                        Isctor already has his own site(For a while now)
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                         ICSTOR - Incest Story|Milf's Control
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                     ICSTOR is probably the most safe patreon creator. Zero descriptions, nothing XD
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                     How can they say fiction like Lolita is O.K. if I remember correctly in the book she was underage (15 years old), are they implying all these games are based on real life scenarios.
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                     I cringe everytime I read this. Sounds like censorship to me.
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                     Also strongly contradictory, like military intelligence or political ethics.
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                        I cringe everytime I read this. Sounds like censorship to me.
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                        Also strongly contradictory, like military intelligence or political ethics.
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                     freedom of speech and freedom of creativity pretty much is dying since 2016
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                        How can they say fiction like Lolita is O.K. if I remember correctly in the book she was underage (15 years old), are they implying all these games are based on real life scenarios.
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                     Lolita was banned/censored for awhile in certain countries.
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                        Lolita was banned/censored for awhile in certain countries.
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                     Still is in some countries, but doe's that make it right or should it be left to personal choice?
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                     I just can't understand the criteria they use to categorize incest as "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex".
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                     It was either badly worded (as others already stated) or their "Trust and Safety Team" is highly biased.
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                        Still is in some countries, but doe's that make it right or should it be left to personal choice?
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                     I think so. But it's a complicated issue. I don't agree with this new policy, but in this case Patreon is also a business. It may be bad business for them to allow such content. This may not be government censorship like some may think. It's most likely a business decision. Just like major cinemas don't show NC-17/X-rated films, because they don't think it's good for business to do so.
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                        well, I think that they included incest in that list cause when it happens in real life is usually a granpa or an uncle that has a sexual relation with a nephew/niece and more often than not is pedo, rape or both at the same time (thats why is considered so twisted).
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                        Back on topic, I think, we will not see many changes, they simple decided as company that anything below  the weird line(see pic below) should not be associate with their image.
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                         View attachment 28719
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                        the worse we will see it will be some changing from son-mom to step son-step mom, i don't see the bases to make it a "federal case"
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                     Whoa...
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                      irredeemable
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                     sure have a long list of fetishes to cover on his game...
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                     This has got me freaking out somewhat, sneakily deleted any incest references on my page or posts and I'm currently considering making the PC adopted so I can keep the Vampire seduction aspect (still very concerned it could be construed as non-consensual because Vampire powers and such)
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                        This has got me freaking out somewhat, sneakily deleted any incest references on my page or posts and I'm currently considering making the PC adopted so I can keep the Vampire seduction aspect (still very concerned it could be construed as non-consensual because Vampire powers and such)
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                     Dude, you're playing with fire... Vampires are dead which means you're spreading necrophilia and incest
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                     So many degenerates for US government to handle here...
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="BeCe · Oct 19, 2017 at 10:19 PM" data-lb-id="post-257077">
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                        Ignazzio said:
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                        Dude, you're playing with fire... Vampires are dead which means you're spreading necrophilia and incest
                        <img alt=":eek:" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite675" data-shortname=":eek:" src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" title="Eek!    :eek:"/>
                        So many degenerates for US government to handle here...
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                     NOT HELPING, I really think they could be that stupid
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="anne O'nymous · Oct 19, 2017 at 10:19 PM" data-lb-id="post-257078">
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                        ThanatosX said:
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                        That 18+ pie is almost a quarter full, what happens when you eliminate over 20% of your traffic and revenue?
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                     I've made some research, and the answer to your question is : Nothing.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     One month ago, day for day before their policies change, they raised $60 Millions, with the intent to increase their services. I don't believe in such coincidences, they clearly are in an appeasing phase, cleaning their content for the shake of their financials.
                     <br/>
                     Now the question is, do they really want to get rid of this content, which isn't the biggest part of their income, but indubitably really a part of their success and can be part of their failure.
                     <br/>
                     If suddenly 10% or more of your customers go see somewhere else, it's a bad news and I don't know many companies that have been able to survive such a thing. This especially when part of them do it because of the loss of trustworthy due to the used methods. No warning, no real time to try to comply to the new rules. One day you're here, then boom, the day after you loose everything.
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     People using patreon for other thing than adult stuff should also think about it. Today it's because of some kind of sexual content. Tomorrow why not doing it because you can't say that Earth resolve around the sun, dinosaurs were real, reptilians (the humanoïds, not the lizards) don't exists, or whatever ? Because, you know, there's people who think otherwise, and you really hurt both their feeling and belief...
                     <br/>
                     When they start restricting this much their policies in a single go, and enforcing them with such apparent brutality, why should we think that there's limits to their desire to abuse of their authority ?
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                        constantine said:
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                        It may be bad business for them to allow such content. This may not be government censorship like some may think. It's most likely a business decision. Just like major cinemas don't show NC-17/X-rated films, because they don't think it's good for business to do so.
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                     That's why I'm happy to live in Europe, or if you prefer outside of North America. We are a little more open minded and usually we prefer the opposite. It's a question of freedom. Whatever these guys can like (which isn't completely illegal or completely obviously immoral), as long as they can find it, then know that we can find what we like ourselves. So, we tolerate the taste of others for the sake of our own taste.
                     <br/>
                     In North America it really seem to be the opposite. There's a beginning of change, but mostly they ban the taste of others because it's not what they like.
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                    Oct 19, 2017
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                    Ren'py:
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                     Track variables
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                     Save compatibiliy
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                     Updated
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                     Write a dynamic Ren'Py game
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="vir_cotto · Oct 19, 2017 at 10:21 PM" data-lb-id="post-257083">
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                     Holier-than-thou inbred hypocrites - that's best description of Patreon and other "oh-so-worried-about-comic-content-but-I-don't-give-a-shit-about-my-neighbour-regularly-beating-his-wife-and-children".
                     <br/>
                     <br/>
                     So, theoretically Nabokov's "Lolita" or de Sade's "Justine" are allowed, but if I'm creating graphic novels depicting ACTUAL CONTENT of those or similar books - they'll ban me? Because - logic nonexistent.
                     <br/>
                     Even better - if I create something along the lines of those two, I'll be banned (again!) for... Logic nonexistent.
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                    The best underrated games:
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                     Reluctant Archon
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                     Bad Memories
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                     Unleashed
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                    <a class="link link--internal" href="https://f95zone.to/threads/element-174-v0-13-knotty-games.36634/post-2388937">
                     Element-174
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                     Love of Magic
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                    (evil F95Zone doesn't allow me another link, sorry)
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                    Connected
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                    Avalon
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                     #90
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="Ignazzio · Oct 19, 2017 at 10:26 PM" data-lb-id="post-257093">
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                        BeCe said:
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                        NOT HELPING, I really think they could be that stupid
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                     Jokes aside - they might. Anyone knows how they define necrophilia? Cuz I've never seen a game when you're fucking a corpse (thank God) but seen a couple of games with zombie. That would mean zombie is necrophilia and therefore vampires should be as well. These rules doesn't make much sense
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                        Jokes aside - they might. Anyone knows how they define necrophilia? Cuz I've never seen a game when you're fucking a corpse (thank God) but seen a couple of games with zombie. That would mean zombie is necrophilia and therefore vampires should be as well. These rules doesn't make much sense
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                     I guess it comes back to consent? A corpse cannot say "yes" but a zombie with a hard-on implies consent?
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                        I guess it comes back to consent? A corpse cannot say "yes" but a zombie with a hard-on implies consent?
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                     Maybe. But in that case would they mention necrophilia at all if it wasn't for zombies? I don't think they have real necrophilia there. I'm a perv and I've never seen a game with it. That would imply it's about zombies. Logically it should be also about vampires and werewolfs in that case. They're dangerously close to tentacle monsters but I'm sure they would be slained by horny samurais if they'd dare to ban these.
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                     So we'll have to "adapt" our stories to be in accordance to these new guidelines? I.e. turning family into step-family?
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                     We had something like that going in Brazil almost 40 years ago, during military "dictatorship", where artist should "adapt" their work to the censorship laws in force at the time. It was a time of, as the slogan said, "Love it or leave it"...
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                     What I'm trying to say is: So much for muh freedums, huh?
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                     Edit: I forgot to say I find this "step-family" device to be useless at best. It's a stupid, lame excuse not to admit incest. I mean, what's the difference between one and the other? Blood? Is it only blood what stops you from fucking your mom and sisters (or dad and brothers)? Is your psychological THAT weak?
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                     Even if they aren't related by blood, your step relatives lived with you your whole life, caring for you and all that crap, just as you blood-related relatives would. I can't, for the life of me, see the difference here.
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                     just a quick update on a couple of Patreon pages as of 2:45 PM GMT:
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                     Mr. Dots page is still back up, but has told his patrons that the Trust and Safety team will be reviewing his page in a day or so.  Lewdlab's page is still under review.  I'm not seeing any other pages down, but then I don't follow a lot of games, so if you know of any other pages that are currently down, please share.
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                        So we'll have to "adapt" our stories to be in accordance to these new guidelines? I.e. turning family into step-family?
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                        We had something like that going in Brazil almost 40 years ago, during military "dictatorship", where artist should "adapt" their work to the censorship laws in force at the time. It was a time of, as the slogan said, "Love it or leave it"...
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                        What I'm trying to say is: So much for muh freedums, huh?
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                     I suppose it's only about advertising incest, rape etc. since DMD returned after changes. At least at this point. If they will care about content it's pretty much over for most of the games there. New medium will appear eventually (noone cares about States anymore) but it might takes years so it will be pretty close in blueballing scale as DMD.
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                        just a quick update on a couple of Patreon pages as of 2:45 PM GMT:
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                        Mr. Dots page is still back up, but has told his patrons that the Trust and Safety team will be reviewing his page in a day or so.  Lewdlab's page is still under review.  I'm not seeing any other pages down, but then I don't follow a lot of games, so if you know of any other pages that are currently down, please share.
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                     I'm following pretty much most of the devs on Patreon and it seems like most of them changed their mainpages but can't see anyone being banned aside of these two. It might be that they used them as they're large and banning them will make smaller devs to remove those fetishes. Looks like it works. It might be also that they don't have enough people to review hundreds of games at once so they're sluggish. I wonder why BB isn't banned as incest is still there (he blurred one on the fetishes list). It's kinda funny when you read on Babysitter's page: "Please note that this game doesn't include and also will not include in the future any incest, bestiality, child depiction or unwilling sex scenes what is against the law in my country. So, please do not ask for it." It basically means MC won't get his niece
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                        It basically means MC won't get his niece
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                     That whole affair personally hit be in the balls as my games are far from containing incest only... I've made some butchering on my Patreon's main page and banner, and removed a bunch of pics. I hope it'll be enough... Cause as of now, there isn't a single reliable platform that work like Patreon and would accept +18 content...
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                     Anyone think I could get away with adding a line in my disclaimer saying the characters are not related but are only depicted as related for story reasons?
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                     Better yet, anyone got a properly produced incest porn video that has a disclaimer saying the actors aren't related I could copy?
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                        BeCe said:
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                        Anyone think I could get away with adding a line in my disclaimer saying the characters are not related but are only depicted as related for story reasons?
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                        Better yet, anyone got a properly produced incest porn video that has a disclaimer saying the actors aren't related I could copy?
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                     That wouldn't make any sense. It can be used in porn videos because they are real actors and someone could think they are indeed related, but in your case it is just rendered images, just computer pixels, not real actors.
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                     What you could do, but that would require a bit of programming, is create a switch in your game so the player chooses if they are blood-related or not. That MAY circunvent this issue.
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                  <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer" data-lb-caption-desc="xןʞ · Oct 19, 2017 at 11:17 PM" data-lb-id="post-257188">
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                        OhWee said:
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                        just a quick update on a couple of Patreon pages as of 2:45 PM GMT:
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                        Mr. Dots page is still back up, but has told his patrons that the Trust and Safety team will be reviewing his page in a day or so.  Lewdlab's page is still under review.  I'm not seeing any other pages down, but then I don't follow a lot of games, so if you know of any other pages that are currently down, please share.
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                     See, they must've just chosen these two as an example to show how SUPER SERIOUS THEY ARE about enforcing this, like these two devs did something to piss someone off internally.
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                     Because they haven't done shit to StudioFOW whose whole description is essentially MINDBREAKING NON CONSENSUAL BEAST RAPE!
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