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Needless to say , the actual positions of most Catholics do not correspond precisely to either of these two types . Mr. Reid : I believe , Mr. Chairperson , this will allow for some fairness to prevail under the application process so that there would not be undue influence exerted by either party with respect to the certification process and to allow the employees themselves to hear both sides in the certification application , and that is why we have raised this amendment . It does not deal with control of assets other than control of securities , and in the context of Bill 67 , the relevance would be that the securities referred to would be shares either of MTS or of an affiliate . Absent , some clear absence of logic in the lack of reviewing the circumstances and the different arguments , the report should be given deference out of respect for the process and for the overriding principle of independence of the judiciary . Are they upset with some decisions , one particular decision , or are they just giving them notice that in the future they had better pay better attention to the position of the government when appearing before the court ? Mr. Chairperson , we are very concerned that the detail contained in the amendments to this bill , which are in some cases housekeeping , probably about three-quarters of them would be termed housekeeping amendments , but a good quarter of them are very substantive amendments . I believe it was also raised by members of the public who came before this committee , and they suggested that , if there are going to be punitive financial measures put in place through this legislation , there needs to be some fairness established to allow for the most accurate survey of those members possible that would be contained in the bargaining unit . The committee also looked at the ranking of judicial pensions in Manitoba , noticed that we were nine out of 10 as of 1991 , and a supplementary plan increased that rank to fifth or seventh , but depending on the particular circumstances . Now , it has not fallen by 50 percent , but it has fallen from the high nineties to the low nineties , and in Canada the same thing will inevitably happen as phone rates escalate . They could shift them either among themselves or to others , with permission . It is the union saying , we will disclose that information and thereby get the benefit of Rand , or we choose not to give that information , and then go back to its membership and get the dues on a voluntary basis . Have you read the rate implication studies , or have you read studies at all , and were there rate implications in them ? Mr. Reid : This , I think , will prevent in some ways , although I believe not totally , any interference with the free determination of any employees in making the decision on whether or not they wish to belong to a particular union and that they would hopefully minimize the ability of an employer to interfere in that process or that decision . The voyages of discovery brought European hubris and expansionism , but also greater humility as the achievements of other civilizations became known . Let us get out to rural and northern and southern and urban Manitoba , let us hold those public meetings , let us mail stuff out to people , let us explain this new circumstance to which we awoke one summer morning after the Crown Corporations Council reported and said , my goodness , you are at risk , folks , you better change , or at least consider how to manage that risk . I think it is appropriate to maybe respond and put some additional information on the record . We had heard during our committee hearings from retired MTS employees and from members of the current plan , both union and the management union representatives , that they were deeply dissatisfied with the current state of negotiations , that they were even more profoundly dissatisfied with the actual wording in the bill of the pension plan and the associated clauses in Section 15 of the proposed act . We hope that the government will be looking at them very carefully , because I can tell members of this committee that we have some time to review the presentations that were made during committee , both from the business community and from the labour community , and that we would be proposing amendments to improve what is a disastrous piece of legislation . Harassment can take many forms in the workplace , both sexual , racial , and any other forms that are defined under the Manitoba human rights act , and I think that it is important that we recognize that there be some inclusion for this provision to allow for the expedited arbitration process to consider harassment as defined under The Human Rights Code to be part of the expedited arbitration process . Now I happen to agree that it just ought to be automatic , but we had advice yesterday that it required leave , and that today it does not .