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Let us get out to rural and northern and southern and urban Manitoba , let us hold those public meetings , let us mail stuff out to people , let us explain this new circumstance to which we awoke one summer morning after the Crown Corporations Council reported and said , my goodness , you are at risk , folks , you better change , or at least consider how to manage that risk . Excuse me , during the consideration of the bill , the schedule , the preamble , and the title are postponed until all other clauses have been considered in their proper order by the committee . There is much about the disaster at Mt. Carmel that has not yet come out , and the public still thinks about it in terms of " cult " stereotypes that ill prepare us for future encounters with those who believe they are touched by the finger of God . Desjarlais at my very first meeting , I outlined to him - - and my deputy minister was sitting right beside me when I made those statements to Mr. Desjarlais - - and I indicated that this would be the direction I was moving in . I have already explained to all of you why I think that is unreasonable , unfair and obviously an added significant cost to the taxpayers of Manitoba where individuals going back prior to 1992 who accepted these positions under certain arrangements knowing what the compensation was , knowing what the pension was at that particular point in time . Essentially , as a result of discussions and representations made both by the Teachers ' Society to me and my officials , as well as the Canadian Federation of Labour , who once again assisted me in drawing to my attention a particular concern . The second thing that a government really concerned about this might do would be to recognize that when you divest yourself of a $ 1.5 billion asset , including the pension assets , that this is an extraordinary circumstance . Mr. Sale : Excuse me , Mr. Chairperson . The first part , it is clear to me that if there is a subsidiary relationship , if I am understanding " ( b ) " correctly , this pertains to a situation where a company , let us say , Northern Telecom , who is a big vendor of telecommunications products , has two independent subsidiaries which themselves are not related - - in other words , Northern Tel either owns or controls two separate companies , neither of which has a beneficial ownership relationship between them . At least 1 ( 4 ) and 1 ( 5 ) are the same kind of issue if I am correct , that what we are doing here is attempting to be clear - - I am sure not attempting , I am sure we are being clear - - about for other legal purposes of defining transactions , bidding procedures , tendering procedures , entering into agreements . I simply suggested , do you think that I would go to these types of lengths when the government could in fact take the bill , if that was truly their motivation , and abolish Rand Formula . Mr. Sale : I thank the chairperson and the minister for that . I am uncomfortable in terms of potential future developments within our own country and potential developments which none of us can foresee , because we all take history to be a slow thing , but as the last 20 years has shown us , the evolution of the world makes it a place that will be barely recognized from 20 years ago in terms of nationalities , boundaries , legal entities . Mr. Sale : Thank you . I am not sure , I am unfamiliar , if there are any and I have consulted widely in this province . Mr. Reid : I am not going to let this pass , because it is this government that has been in office for the period of time that we have seen the worst reduction in rail jobs , I believe , in the history of this province . Mr. Sale : I do not want to make a major point of this , and I am not trying to . We have available severe financial penalties , and , like I said to you , if you do not think it is stiff enough , just talk to those small bargaining units and ask them if they can afford to pay that $ 2,000 fine that could be levied on them now under The Labour Relations Act for the Province of Manitoba . Labour Relations Act. Is that what you want us to do , to bow down to you and say that we are very pleased that you did not abolish other sections in here and we should be thankful for what you have given us through this legislation ? Because that is what you want us to do here today . I do not think any of us enjoy serving in such a situation , but on the other hand , the saying which was quoted to us at least once during the public hearings , that for evil to triumph all that is required is for good people to do nothing , is also true .