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Because I suggest , Sir , that you will find that they will comply as they should comply with the wishes of their members for that financial information and , if they do not comply , that there are stiff enough penalties there that will be a financial incentive for them to comply with the wishes of your act and that there is no need to remove the Rand Formula . I am glad that Mr. Reid clarified on the record that there is no union that would deny this information to an employee , and I just wanted to make sure that the record and that the law do not stand in the way of the employee requesting the union for that information . The first part , it is clear to me that if there is a subsidiary relationship , if I am understanding " ( b ) " correctly , this pertains to a situation where a company , let us say , Northern Telecom , who is a big vendor of telecommunications products , has two independent subsidiaries which themselves are not related - - in other words , Northern Tel either owns or controls two separate companies , neither of which has a beneficial ownership relationship between them . One of the questions that you have never answered for this committee or for members of the House is , who is requesting that these changes be brought in to remove the Rand Formula ? For Catholics , they present the point of view of a theologian of extraordinary learning in the tradition of the Church , a thinker whose even more extraordinary rational power makes compelling arguments for whatever position he takes in each respective case . To invoke tradition is to shift to a new battlefield no more promising than the first . Countries have changed their shape and texture and governments in ways that no one could possibly have foreseen . Since not all members of a workplace are members of the union , it only seems reasonable to suggest that the union have access to the names and addresses of those people to ascertain , since those people also pay dues , what their will is with respect to the use of those dues . Must a mediating position , in seeking to do justice to both sides , be a bag of contradictions that in the end satisfies no one ? Should the celebrant face the people during the Eucharistic prayer , or should both priests and people be turned eastward toward the coming Lord ? There is no need to choose between the objectivity of the given and the subjectivity of the response . It can work both ways . " What Grisez is also saying is that attempts of Church officials to deny the moral nature of this type of situation has been a source of scandal , leading both Catholics and non-Catholics to conclude that the Church , in effect , exempts priests from ordinary moral responsibility instead of holding them to Christian standards , which include and go beyond ordinary morality . If he wishes to propose a friendly amendment that would reflect an increase in those fine levels for those that do not comply , I would be willing to entertain such a motion to see an increase in the fine level from the current level of $ 2,000 to some other level . Each party blames the other for the decline of Mass attendance and the failure of the Church to attract the young . MSOS and the Union of Manitoba Municipalities , both for its decision to privatize and for the process of privatization . It is a problem that sometimes poisons our debates , and it is regrettable when that happens , and I would acknowledge that both sides - - and I take personal responsibility for my part in this - - sometimes poison debate , because we do , by virtue of the fact that this is to a significant extent a class-based , sociodemographic representation that we enjoy here , work with disproportionately more poor people in our ridings than the Conservative Party does . Mr. Chairman , I ask you , do you want me to read each of the nine in Section 1 into the record and move them and discuss them all , or is there a desire just to do them one at a time ? The judge found that Mt. Carmel was " not only a figurative but a literal fortress , manned by each of the Defendants convicted on this count . Mr. Reid : Mr. Chairperson , in the legislation itself , the Clause 9 that the minister has included with the bill references notwithstanding the last collective agreement , and I am sure we all know what the word " notwithstanding " means in this respect or in our previous experiences with this word in the Canadian relationship .