And and so I guess what I don't understand is how to do that and still be discriminative , because to be discriminative you have to have categories and the only categories that we know of to use are sort of these human  human sig significant  categories that are significant to humans , like phonemes , things like that.
Right.
But that 's sort of what you want to avoid. And so that feels  I don't know how to get out of this.
Well , here 's a  here 's a , uh , uh Here 's a generic and possibly useless thought , which is ,  um , what do you really  I mean , in a sense the only s s systems that make sense , uh , are ones that  that have something from top - down in th in them. Right ? Because if e even the smallest organism that 's trying to learn to do anything , if it doesn't have any kind of reward for doing  or penal penalty for doing anything , then it 's just going to behave randomly.