
A search for illegally held weapons (IF there were any, no evidence yet
produced to this effect) does not justify firing into a house with
women and children, either. It also does not justify shooting first
without identifying oneself (the ATF and FBI have done this before, so
don't say they haven't, please) or producing a warrant.

Guess it depends on whose story one believes, huh?


Which "others" are we talking about here?


"Sub lethal"? Excuse me, but those people are dead!!!


Evidence? So far the FBI has produced none. Don't hold your breath.


Only a few of those being held in chains and s(hackles are wanted . 
The rest are being held for the crime of being "material witnesses".


It was not the Feds decision to make, but the firefighters.


This is true of ANY answer to a call for help from a fire department by
ANY citizen. Since fire departments do answer calls that "deprive 
resources that might be needed elsewhere" it is not a valid reason for
not calling them.

Further, since the Davidians had not been found guilty of any crime in
a court of law, they are subject to the same protection as any other
citizen. And las far as I know, even criminals in prison are not left to 
burn to death in a fire.


I guess this is a matter of religious faith with you? The government
says it, so it must be so? Or haven't you been reading this thread well 
enough to notice that some of us here don't beleive their story?


Patients in psychiatric hospitals are not left to die in fires, either.
Besides, as I explained, some of us here believe their distress might
have been genuine. Are you SO certain it wasn't?


There is no evidence that the Davidians committed human sacrifice 
either before of after the initial raid. And self-defense is not
murder.


He did not say it was deliberate. Accidents do not require conspiracy
theories, only wanton disregard for human life. The initial raid alone
(agents firing blind into walls against all standards of law enforce-
ment procedure) proves they did not mind killing people.


No one here is "supporting Koresh". We are opposing the illegal use of
excessive violence by our government against our citizens. That is all.


A society that believes it is OK to terrorize people for their religious
views will destroy itself in due time. It is the feds who disrupted the
"fabric of society" in Waco, not Koresh. It is the feds who forced a
nightmare onto the people of Mount Carmel.


On what basis do you assume we haven't? Don't you really mean
"It would be a good thing if people drew the same conclusions from
history that I do?" :-)


"Militant" implies acts of aggression against one's neighbors. The
Davidians left their neighbors alone.

.religious heretics who left to set up such a community

So what? The Mormons were considered a "cult" for years, and were chased
out of one place after another on much the same thinking as you are
advocating. When they finally got to "set up a community" they left
people alone. So far Americans haven't been put to the sword by Mormon
hordes crying to avenge Joseph Smith. :-)


It doesn't mean they won't either. Anyway, the whole purpose of a 
system of laws is to punish people for what they DO, not what they
MIGHT do. 


"Telling" is not the same as "forcing". When the police knock at my
door, I cannot make them go away by changing the channeI. As for Pat
and friends, I don't even WATCH their channel, since I am an atheist.
So far, not watching them tell me what to do hasn't gotten me killed :-)


Right now, the only people sticking guns in anyone's faces is the 
government. And they are trying very hard to run my life. Or 
haven't you noticed?


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