Gordon Rubenfeld responds to Ron Roth:
GR>
GR> RR> Well, Gordon, I look at the RESULTS, not at anyone's *scientific*
GR> RR> stamp of approval.
GR>  
GR>    If you and your patients (followers?) are convinced (as you've written)
GR>  by your methods of uncontrolled, undocumented, unreported, unsubstantiated,
GR>  subjective endpoint research - great.  But, why should the rest of us care?

 Gordon, even if you are trying to beat this issue to death, you'll 
 never get more than a stalemate out of this one!
 I have never tried to force my type of medicine on any of you. Why 
 should I?  My patients are happy. I'm happy. You and your peers seem 
 to be the only miserable ones around bemoaning the steady loss of 
 patients to the alternative camp.
 Just look at Europe. There has been a steady exodus from 'synthetic' 
 medicine for over a decade now, and it'll be just a matter of time
 before more people on this continent will abandon their drug and white 
 coat worship as well and visit different doctors for different needs.

GR>     You see Ron, the point isn't whether YOU and your patients are
GR>  convinced that whatever it is you do works; it's whether what you do is
GR>  MORE effective in similar cases (of whatever it is you think you are
GR>  treating) than cupping, bloodletting, and placebo.

 This is very interesting. I have come exactly to the same conclusions
 but in regards to *conventional* medicine.

 You see, I don't just treat little old ladies that wouldn't know any
 different of what is being done, but a bulk of my patients consist of
 teachers, lawyers, judges, nurses, accountants, university graduates,
 and various health practitioners.
 If these people have gotten results with my method after having been
 unsuccessful with yours or their own, I certainly wouldn't lose any 
 sleep over whether you or your peers approve of my treatments --- 
 let's face it, with all the blunders committed by "scientific" MDs 
 over the years, I know a lot of people who hold your *scientific* 
 method in much lower esteem than they hold mine!

GR>  As far as we know ayurveda = crystals = homeopathy = Ron Roth
GR>  which may all equal placebo administered with appropriate
GR>  trappings...
     
  Sorry, but I'm not familiar OR interested with what appears to be 
 'NEW AGE' medicine (ayurveda, crystals), with the exception of homeo-
 pathy, of which I took a course. But Gordon, you already knew that -
 you just wanted to make my system look a bit more far out, right?
 
 I use homeopathy very little, since my cellular test (EMR) is hard to
 beat for accuracy and minerals are more predictable, while homeopathy
 does have a problem with reliability, especially in acute conditions.
 An exception perhaps are homeopathic nosodes which act fairly quickly
 and are more dependable in certain viral or bacterial situations. 

GR>  My colleagues and I spend hours debating study design
GR>  and results, even of therapies currently accepted as "standard".
GR>  As good (well, adequate) scientists, we are prepared, *if 
GR>  presented with appropriate data*, to abandon our most deeply held 
GR>  beliefs in favor of new ideas.

 I have met the challenges of hundreds of sceptics by verifying the
 accuracy of measuring their mineral status to their total satisfac-
 tion --- in other words EVERYONE INVOLVED is happy!
 If you were to cook a meal, would you worry over whether EVERYONE 
 in this world would find it to their liking, or only those that end 
 up eating it?
 Since I have financed every research project that I have undertaken 
 entirely myself, I don't need to follow any of your rules or guide-
 lines to satisfy any aspects of a grant application, which YOU may 
 have to; neither am I concerned of whether or not my study designs 
 meet your or anyone else's criteria or acceptance. 

GR>    Sorry Ron, if conviction were the ruler of truth, a flat Earth would
GR>  still be the center of the Universe and epilepsy a curse of the gods.
                         
 I think there would be more justification for an uneducated person
 growing up in an uncivilized environment to believe in a flat earth,
 than for a civilized, well educated and scientifically trained mind
 to follow the doctrine of evolution.
 Genetic engineering of course is now the final frontier to show God
 how it is (properly) done. Now we've become capable of creating our
 own paradise and give disease (and God) the boot, right?

 But just before we get rid of Him for good, perhaps He could leave us
 some pointers on how to solve a couple of tiny problems, such as war, 
 poverty, racism, crime, riots, substance abuse... And one last thing, 
 could He also give us a hint on how to control natural disasters, the
 weather, and last, but not least --- peace?

   --Ron--