
John 12:24-26: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat
falls onto the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it
produces much grain.
  "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in
this world will keep it for eternal life.
  "If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My
servant will be also.  If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor."

Why would I want an eternal life if I hate this one?

If we were created by a deity, why would that deity not wish us to
enjoy what he has given us?

Why would I want to live forever?  The challenge in my life is that I
will die, and that I must give my life the meaning I wish it to have
before that happens.  My time is here and will someday pass; I will be
content to live on in the memories of my friends, and once they too
are dead, then I will no longer have any reason to exist.

In short: even if your deity *does* exist, that doesn't automatically
mean that I would worship it.  I am content to live my own life, and
fend for myself, so when I die, I can be proud of the fact that no
matter where I end up, it will be because of *my* actions and *my* choices.

If your god decides to toss me into a flaming pit for this, then so be
it.  I would much rather just cease to exist.  But if your god wants
my respect and my obedience, then it had better earn these; and if it
does, then they will be very strong and true.


Jesus wasn't the only one who rose from the dead -- I think it was
Osiris who did the same, as well as a few characters from Greek or
Norse legend, if memory serves.

But still: WHY would I want to rise from the dead?  Why do *you* want to?


If your god wants to win my devotion, then it knows what it can do --
provide some way for me to believe without having to resort to blind
faith that could be applied equally well to any religion.


That's precisely it.  I neither see nor know Zeus either, nor Odin.
Shall I offer them the same devotion I offer Jesus?


You've got to understand my point-of-view: I see Christians spouting
Bible verse all the time as if it were some sort of magic spell that
will level all opposition.  Truth is, it's not.  Robert has never
demonstrated that he actually understands what the verses imply; he
just rattles them off day by day.  Some brazenly fly in the face of
common sense and reality, and I point these out where I can.

But even more than that, even when Christians *do* try to explain the
verses in their own words, they do so from a Christian point of view,
which is that every human being would want to be a Christian if only
he or she understood the Christian message properly, and then all
strife and suffering on the earth would end.  Here's the problem with
that: substitute "Moslem" or "Buddhist" or "Satanist" instead of
"Christian", and it means the same thing.

Christanity is a very nice belief set around a very nice book.  But if
you want to make me believe that it has any bearing on the REAL WORLD,
you've got some convincing to do.


And in my opinion, you're bumbling about blindly making up entities
where there aren't any, and depriving yourself of a true understanding
and enjoyment of your life.  As long as you keep your beliefs to
yourself, I'll keep my beliefs to myself -- but as soon as you start
waving them around, expect me to toss in my opinions, too.