
   I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing heresy.  I assumed that heresy
meant a departure from orthodoxy, in which case generally accepted belief is
indeed an important issue.  In this case, the definition of the word "create"
is of great importance, since creation is the issue being discussed.


  I should have said "given the Mormon belief."  If you disagree with the
Mormon belief that creation is more a function of organization of eternally
existent substance than one of ex nihilo creation, then that is the important
point.


  Correction: you interpret the Bible to mean something very specific by
such terms.

   It always cracks me up when anti-Mormons presume to tell Mormons what they
believe.  Mormons do, in fact, believe that all people, including Christ and
Lucifer, are children of God in the sense that we were all created (or
organized or whatever) by Him.  We also believe that being "offspring" of
God has a symbolic sense when applied to being spiritually "born again" of
Him.  Thus the same word can be used to convey different meanings.  This is
how language works, Robert, and it's why making someone an offender for a
word is dangerous.


<...>

   On the contrary, Robert, it is not a red herring at all to show that those
who rely wholly on the Bible cannot seem to agree on what it says.  You say
that one must simply "look at the Bible" to see what it teaches, but centuries
of people doing just that have sho0wn that no one is really sure what it says.
Are we to believe that you are the only one who really understands the
scriptures?


  Let me clarify this one more time.  You did not refer to the Mormon belief
that Jesus needed to be saved, but rather to McConkie's belief in same.  We
keep trying to point out to you that Bruce McConkie is not the source of
Mormon doctrine, and you keep ignoring it. (see below)


  On the contrary, Robert, if you are quoting McConkie's words as Mormon
canon then the question of whether they are canon or not is of *great*
importance.  The fact is that they are not.  Whether or not they indicate
general Mormon belief would only be ascertainable by interviewing a large
number of Mormons.