[02:48] <snowfalcon> hello?
 hi, do you have a question?
[02:55] <snowfalcon> hey there
 https://matterbridge.lubuntu.me/8e7f9e0f/file_4018.jpg
 Can anyone help figure how to get the Ethernet connected i don't know it's not connecting to internet automatically when I plug in ethernet
 Hi, how to check for updates and drivers , I've finally been able to connect to ethernet
 Driver's specific to the laptop
[22:29] <hallo> hi
[22:30] <kc2bez[m]> hallo: HI, do you have a support question?


[16:02] <juliank> o/
[16:03] <cyphermox> o/
[16:03] <rbalint> o/
[16:04] <cyphermox> vorlon: you around to chair?
[16:04] <tdaitx> o/
[16:05] <cyphermox> I'll take that as a no
[16:05] <cyphermox> #startmeeting Weekly Ubuntu Foundations team
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Dec  6 16:05:50 2018 UTC.  The chair is cyphermox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:05] <cyphermox> #topic Lightning rounds
[16:06] <cyphermox> echo $(shuf -e vorlon bdmurray xnox tdaitx doko sil2100 rbalint infinity cyphermox mwhudson rcj philroche Odd_Bloke fginther juliank platonical tobikoch)
[16:06] <cyphermox> tdaitx sil2100 rcj xnox mwhudson juliank infinity fginther bdmurray platonical Odd_Bloke cyphermox philroche doko rbalint tobikoch vorlon
[16:06] <tdaitx> * openjdk-11 update with autopkgtests
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - seeing lots of failures in the ppa builds, disk space was reported as a problem, but vbuilders have 60 GB disk
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - still got failures afre removing intermediate testsuite files
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - arm and intel failed, ibm worked fine, launchpad team said nothing was changed so package changes were probably at fault
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - more often disk usage sampling finally indicated a testsuite that grew by 30 GB in less than 2 minutes (local build is faster and on a ssd)
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - investigating which particular tests are at "fault", then decide to either ignore them (depending on importance) or free space somewhere else
[16:06] <tdaitx> * openjdk-11 migration to bionic
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - local rebuilds of packages that need patching and must be build with openjdk-10
[16:06] <tdaitx>   - sorting out what new package dependencies are being used on debian since cosmic
[16:06] <tdaitx> (done)
[16:06] <gaughen> sil2100 is in CPT, and riding back to the hotel
[16:06] <gaughen> rcj
[16:07] <rcj> * tons of vacation
[16:07] <rcj> (done)
[16:07] <gaughen> xnox is out today
[16:08] <gaughen> may be on airplane
[16:08] <gaughen> mwhudson is sleeping hopefully
[16:08] <gaughen> juliank,
[16:08] <juliank> * magic apt stuff
[16:08] <cyphermox> super moo powers! yay
[16:08] <juliank> https://salsa.debian.org/apt-team/apt/commit/294b5e77a25d2600e7f3ce12a996d1694b5be817
[16:08] <juliank> (done)
[16:09] <cyphermox> fginther:
[16:10] <fginther> * Partner calls
[16:10] <fginther> * Posted job opening: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1456314
[16:10] <fginther> (done)
[16:10] <fginther> bdmurray:
[16:10] <bdmurray> submitted RT #115646 re staging ET access to porter-i386.canonical.com
[16:10] <bdmurray> submitted RT re updating daisy code in Error Tracker
[16:10] <bdmurray> reported oopsrepository bug LP: #1805912 - and fixed it too
[16:10] <bdmurray> also fixed another bug regarding writing to BucketMetadata
[16:10] <bdmurray> worked with IS regarding failed daisy update and also a separate bad unit
[16:10] <bdmurray> modified ET mojo spec not to use rabbitmq-stats plus some other stuff
[16:10] <bdmurray> merged libreoffice bionic badtest hint from osomon
[16:10] <bdmurray> reviewed rbalint's monster unattended-upgrades SRU
[16:10] <bdmurray> review of Ubuntu Bug Control application from Canonical employee
[16:11] <bdmurray> special SRU review / release of netplan.io for Bionic
[16:11] <bdmurray> worked on allowing ubuntu-release-upgrader to attempt an upgrade with
[16:11] <bdmurray>  PPAs enabled
[16:11] <bdmurray> Now errors.ubuntu.com doesn't have any strange releases on the front page, something Adam had brought up a bit ago.
[16:11] <bdmurray> It was a bit complicated but looks nice now.
[16:12] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[16:12] <bdmurray> platonical:
[16:12] <platonical> * Livecd-rootfs SRUs:
[16:12] <platonical> https://code.launchpad.net/~codyshepherd/livecd-rootfs/bionic-proposed-snaps-manifest/+merge/359645
[16:12] <platonical> https://code.launchpad.net/~codyshepherd/livecd-rootfs/xenial-proposed-snaps-manifest/+merge/359649
[16:12] <platonical> * Bug verification on LP: #1801134
[16:12] <platonical> * Partner image work
[16:12] <platonical> (done)
[16:12] <platonical> Odd_Bloke:
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Various partner pieces of work
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Investigated using Sentry for build system error tracking
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> * Moved old trusty releases to our S3 archive to free up disk space on the cloud-images.u.c host
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> (done)
[16:12] <Odd_Bloke> cyphermox:
[16:12] <cyphermox>  MIR: review gnome-shell-extension-desktop-icons
[16:12] <cyphermox> - plymouth: update upstream patches for keyboard deactivation
[16:12] <cyphermox> - Secure Boot/ grub SRU testing (Windows 10 / MAAS chainloading) (bug LP: #1792575)
[16:12] <cyphermox> - netplan:
[16:12] <cyphermox>  - finishing up tunnel support (integration tests + parent device issues)
[16:12] <cyphermox>  - workaround for device matching issues when MACs are shared
[16:12] <cyphermox> - Whitepaper: writing up Secure Boot PKI stuff.
[16:12] <cyphermox> - debugging NM+dnsmasq autopkgtests fail in disco
[16:12] <cyphermox> (done)
[16:14] <tobikoch> p_hilroche is ooo
[16:14] <tobikoch> doko:
[16:14] <doko> - packaged GCC 7.4 release, update 8.2
[16:14] <doko> - some MIRs
[16:14] <doko> - preparing bionic test rebuild
[16:14] <doko> - OpenJDK 12 packaging, reviewed new OpenJDK 11 packaging changes
[16:14] <doko> - fixing various ftbfs
[16:14] <doko> - debhelper merge (pending since June)
[16:14] <doko> (done)
[16:14] <rbalint> * meld new upstream release 3.18.3
[16:14] <rbalint> * created unattended-upgrades mirror on Salsa with CI config
[16:14] <rbalint>   https://salsa.debian.org/rbalint/unattended-upgrades
[16:14] <rbalint> * followed up on unattended-upgrades SRU regressions
[16:15] <rbalint> * fixed old LP: #1806678 in git
[16:15] <rbalint> * fixed LP: #1806076 on apt's side in git
[16:15] <rbalint> * collected bzr branches of one round of Foundation's packages for git conversion
[16:15] <rbalint> * proposed check for motd news format:
[16:15] <rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/ubuntu-motd/check-news-format/+merge/360195
[16:15] <rbalint> * also for nicer minimized motd:
[16:15] <rbalint>   https://code.launchpad.net/~rbalint/livecd-rootfs/separate-motd-minimized/+merge/360193
[16:15] <rbalint> * fixed foolscap autopkgtest
[16:15] <rbalint> * packaged new twisted 18.9.0 upstream
[16:15] <rbalint> (done)
[16:15] <tobikoch> * mfdiff refactoring
[16:15] <tobikoch> * vanguarding
[16:15] <tobikoch> * some image build parallellelization work
[16:15] <tobikoch> * minor amount of partner work
[16:15] <tobikoch> (done)
[16:16] <cyphermox> #topic Release incoming bugs
[16:16] <cyphermox> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-dd-incoming-bug-tasks.html#foundations-bugs
[16:16] <cyphermox> (and this time I got the right URL)
[16:16] <cyphermox> bdmurray: anything on that report you want to talk about?
[16:16] <bdmurray> I noticed Adam took bug 1797335 but there isn't a card for it
[16:17] <bdmurray> So should we create one?
[16:18] <gaughen> he's got it in the glibc sru he's working on
[16:18] <gaughen> bdmurray, so yes, to creating one and it should go straight to in progress
[16:18] <bdmurray> gaughen: ack
[16:18] <gaughen> bdmurray, you'll create it?
[16:18] <bdmurray> bug 1805490 was raised by seb
[16:18] <bdmurray> gaughen: when my system is working better yes
[16:19] <gaughen> let me do it then
[16:19] <cyphermox> bdmurray: not new
[16:19] <cyphermox> I'll take it though, see if there's more to get out of this now
[16:19] <gaughen> cyphermox, bdmurray and I'll card this one too
[16:19] <bdmurray> cool
[16:19] <cyphermox> gaughen: ta
[16:20] <bdmurray> then there is bug 1804673 which may have an upstream fix
[16:20] <gaughen> I have one quesiton on that last one
[16:20] <cyphermox> wow
[16:20] <gaughen> is this warm enough that we should look at it in the next couple of weeks, or can it wait until Jan?
[16:20] <cyphermox> is that not a desktop bug?
[16:21] <juliank> I'd cherry-pick the gnutls one, that should be trivial, but not sure about SRU testing
[16:21] <bdmurray> no, seb said gnutls is ours which is true
[16:21] <cyphermox> ok
[16:21] <cyphermox> well, yeah, gnutls is ours
[16:22] <cyphermox> my point was it's easy to use gnutls wrong in gnome-music that would lead to a segfault
[16:22] <juliank> APT uses gnutls, so I tend to take care of it when I see it somewhere
[16:22] <cyphermox> but since it's been tracked down to gnutls itself
[16:22] <gaughen> I'll card this beasty also bdmurray, it does look like one we should look at
[16:22] <cyphermox> juliank wants to take it?
[16:22] <gaughen> sounds like it
[16:22] <juliank> yeah
[16:22] <cyphermox> cool
[16:23] <bdmurray> Then there is bug 1805027 which I'm keeping an eye since I experience it too
[16:24] <juliank> who uses comcast mail servers anyway?
[16:25] <bdmurray> people forced to?
[16:25] <cyphermox> it's a fun bug
[16:26] <juliank> Can reproduce to
[16:26] <cyphermox> yup
[16:26] <juliank> resolvectl query works, but actually using it fails
[16:26] <cyphermox> it's quite likely EDNS foobar
[16:26] <juliank> (on disco)
[16:26] <cyphermox> (so that inflight SRU that may or may not be in disco?)
[16:27] <cyphermox> xnox isn't around to claim it, but it can probably wait until he's there?
[16:27] <gaughen> so it's confirmed to NOT be addressed by the latest systemd sru?
[16:27] <cyphermox> we only confirm it's not fixed in disco
[16:27] <bdmurray> gaughen: no, it is not. Although I tested it and it didn't help.
[16:27] <juliank> it's definitely not fixed in yesterday's disco upload
[16:27] <cyphermox> no clue if the SRU is applied is disco. certainly /should/ be
[16:27] <gaughen> I carded it
[16:28] <cyphermox> so maybe it's not the same bug
[16:28] <bdmurray> juliank: you tested it on disco?
[16:28] <juliank> that includes " resolved: Increase size of TCP stub replies."
[16:28] <cyphermox> we do have all the info to fix it though, so it's just a matter of how fast it needs to be addressed
[16:28] <juliank> yes, with  239-7ubuntu15
[16:28] <cyphermox> heh
[16:28] <juliank> cyphermox: before the release
[16:28] <juliank> :D
[16:28] <cyphermox> well, yeah
[16:28] <cyphermox> but I mean "before xnox is available" or not
[16:29] <cyphermox> I can easily go debug it
[16:29] <juliank> Given that this affects a small group of users, does not seem that high priority
[16:29] <gaughen> cyphermox, I don't think it's that hot
[16:29] <bdmurray> i think there is a danger of people modifying systems in a bad way
[16:29] <cyphermox> just not sure if that's a good idea priority-wise ;)
[16:29] <cyphermox> bdmurray: yeah
[16:29] <gaughen> cyphermox, I don't think it's a jam it in the current iteration
[16:29] <cyphermox> juliank: it affects a "small" group of many users, the most likely to modify their systems in a bad way, sadly
[16:30] <bdmurray> Its what I did for my dad.
[16:30] <gaughen> I've carded it and put it towards the top of general distro
[16:30] <cyphermox> cool
[16:30] <cyphermox> bdmurray: anything else?
[16:30] <juliank> it definitely sounds like a fun bug
[16:31] <bdmurray> I kinda wanted to talk about samba ownership but I guess Steve should be around for that.
[16:31] <doko> is it ours?
[16:31] <gaughen> doko, it's shared with server
[16:31] <cyphermox> ack
[16:32] <gaughen> bdmurray, I planned to chat with Josh about it later today
[16:32] <cyphermox> punt until later then?
[16:32] <cyphermox> #topic Team proposed-migration report
[16:32] <bdmurray> Oh, it looks like somebody is on it.
[16:32] <cyphermox> #link http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses_by_team.html#foundations-bugs
[16:32] <cyphermox> doko:
[16:33] <cyphermox> (samba is nice segway)
[16:33] <doko> the only one is imagemagick
[16:33] <cyphermox> ohh
[16:33] <doko> freeipa is not ours, people are trying to migrate to openjdk-11 from -8
[16:34] <cyphermox> ok
[16:35] <rbalint> i can take imagemagick for next week, we have a history with ruby-rmagick :-)
[16:36] <cyphermox> card then?
[16:36] <gaughen> sure, I'll create it and put it in your queue rbalint
[16:36] <cyphermox> ok; moving on
[16:36] <cyphermox> #topic AOB
[16:36] <cyphermox> anything else from anyone?
[16:37] <rbalint> bdmurray, thanks for the monster u-u SRU review! :-)
[16:37] <bdmurray> rbalint: hopefully the rest of the process is smooth
[16:38] <rbalint> it looks like so so far
[16:39] <cyphermox> alright
[16:39] <rbalint> aob: i plan converiting low-traffic Foundations packages from bzr to git without further coordination, if you want yours to be held back please add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/MigratingFromBzrToGit
[16:40] <cyphermox> thanks everyone! :)
[16:40] <cyphermox> #endmeeting
[16:40] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Dec  6 16:40:02 2018 UTC.
[16:40] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-12-06-16.05.moin.txt
[19:54] <mIk3_08> Hello everyone...
[19:56] <tsimonq2> Heyaaa
[19:56] <tsimonq2> Anyone else here from the UMB?
[19:59] <mIk3_08> hi tsimonq2...
[19:59] <tsimonq2> Hey, how are you?
[20:00] <mIk3_08> im good. you?
[20:00] <tsimonq2> Pretty good.
[20:00] <tsimonq2> mIk3_08: I don't know if anyone else will show up, sorry. :(
[20:01] <mIk3_08> that's okay.
[20:01] <tsimonq2> But I do have a question after seeing your application that would be good to get answered at some point - have you worked with anyone who might be able to advocate for you?
[20:04] <mIk3_08> actually, no. im just working on the translations. and applying for the membership to the officially part of it.
[20:05] <mIk3_08> i mean to be officially part of the ubuntu membership.
[20:06] <tsimonq2> Ahh.
[20:06] <mIk3_08> mostly filipino official ubuntu member here in philippines... i think they are so busy to reply
[20:06] <tsimonq2> mIk3_08: Has anyone had to review your contributions? Maybe ask them.
[20:07] <tsimonq2> I say that because typically we like to see two or more testimonials.
[20:07] <tsimonq2> But it's not a hard requirement. :)
[20:10] <mIk3_08> tsimonq2: okay tsimonq2. i'll find way for that.
[20:10] <tsimonq2> Thanks.
[20:10] <tsimonq2> And sorry we couldn't get quorum today.
[20:11] <mIk3_08> well That's okay.
[20:18] <mIk3_08> tsimonq2: i have a question for you...
[20:20] <mIk3_08> is it okay to ask?...
[20:21] <sarnold> mIk3_08: people come and go on irc all the time, it's best to just ask questions and see :)
[20:21] <tsimonq2> ^ :)
[20:21] <tsimonq2> Heya sarnold :D
[20:21] <sarnold> afternoon tsimonq2 :)
[20:22] <mIk3_08> tsimonq2 : If nobody can give a testimonials for me coz it seems that they are so busy. Am I not qualified to be official member of ubuntu?
[20:22] <tsimonq2> mIk3_08: Your application must be extremely strong if that is the case.
[20:23] <tsimonq2> But, other members will ask the question, and they may feel differently.
[20:23] <tsimonq2> I am one member with one opinion. ;)
[20:25] <mIk3_08> hey sarnold: my internet is so slow... i you give me your wiki. if its okay so that i can know your background. if thats okay. :-)
[20:25] <mIk3_08> can you give me your wiki.?
[20:26] <mIk3_08> if its okay for you sarnold.
[20:26] <mIk3_08> i mean the links
[20:26] <sarnold> mIk3_08: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/sarnold
[20:28] <mIk3_08> we have a big internet problem here in philippines and the price is high even loading with wiki ubuntu take time
[20:28] <sarnold> ubuntu wiki is *insanely* slow
[20:29] <mIk3_08> not only in wiki but also with the other website... takes a lot of time to successfully view the page.
[20:30] <teward> sarnold: maybe we need to poke SA?
[20:31] <mIk3_08> hi teward... what is SA?
[20:31] <teward> mIk3_08: i was specifically talking to sarnold, but I was referring to slowness globally on the wiki needing to be sent up to the canonical sysadmins
[20:31] <teward> you can otherwise ignore my comments, I'm not actually part of the UMB, I just lurk :)
[20:32] <sarnold> teward: heh, they're aware it's pretty poor.. dealing with spam on it takes a lot more system time than it could / should, and switching to something else would requir a huge amount of human time..
[20:33] <sarnold> teward: I wish we could do something more like https://9p.io/wiki/plan9/plan_9_wiki/  "Anyone with a Plan 9 installation can edit the wiki pages. People new to a wiki should play around in the sandbox to gain familiarity with the concept."
[20:34] <mIk3_08> hehehe :-) thanks by the way for the concern. ahhhh the page of sarnold is successfully loaded and i've seen that    tsimonq2 is writing a comment with your page. hey, tsimonq2 can you also make a comment in my page. hehehe
[20:35] <teward> speaking of "your page", you do have one yes? :P
[20:37] <mIk3_08> are you asking to me teward? http://wiki.ubuntu.com/mIk3_08
[20:37] <sarnold> "This page does not exist yet"
[20:37] <teward> that'd be because mlk3_08 is the page I found on the UMB page
[20:37] <mIk3_08> https://launchpad.net/~mlk3-08
[20:37] <sarnold> this exists https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mlk3_08
[20:37] <teward> mIk3_08: i think you failed to type the page name right, is that supposed to be an L or an I?  :P
[20:38] <mIk3_08> Il
[20:42] <mIk3_08> hey teward and sarnold can you help give testimonial on my https://wiki.ubuntu.com/mlk3_08
[20:42] <teward> I don't know you, i can't testify for or against currently.  E:NOINFORMATIONTOSHARE
[20:45] <mIk3_08> hehehe...that's okay teward np
[20:46] <teward> mIk3_08: if you need testimonials they should be from other people who you've worked with in the Ubuntu world at large
[20:46] <teward> otherwise the testimonials are useless :P
[20:49] <mIk3_08> i did not work with anyone teward. i try my self to volunteer but they always say no.
[20:50] <mIk3_08> how about to you teward sarnold and tsimonq2. for the sake of testi...
[20:56] <mIk3_08> i think its no again tewar...
[20:57] <mIk3_08> i mean teward :-P
[21:00] <mIk3_08> i have to go guys....
[21:00] <mIk3_08> Bye..
[21:01] <mIk3_08> Thanks for the time.


[07:44]  * zkriesse hugs vish
[07:44] <vish> zkriesse: heya! :)
[08:08] <zkriesse> vish: what's up dude?
[08:08] <zkriesse> hello TLE
[08:08] <TLE> zkriesse: hallo
[08:09] <vish> zkriesse: checking the mails and wow , there are a lot to finish! :s
[08:09] <zkriesse> yeah
[08:12] <zkriesse> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oraONu7Jp_Y
[08:36] <vish> lmao! wow!
[08:38] <zkriesse> funny?
[08:50] <vish> pretty well done ;)
[08:52] <zkriesse> i wonder who did it
[16:35] <alket> Is is possible to localize ubuntus wiki , wiki.ubuntu.com in my language ?
[16:36] <popey> alket: visit the wiki in chrome browser and it will translate for you ;)
[16:36] <alket> popey, I actually want to translate it
[16:36] <alket> Google Translate from English to Albanian is funny
[16:36] <popey> great!
[16:36] <alket> I always laugh at it
[16:37] <popey> :)
[16:37] <popey> Are you in contact with your LoCo team?
[16:37] <alket> im the LoCo team leader
[16:51] <popey> You sound best placed to do it then :)


[11:46] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:46] <czajkowski> tdr112: ye met sladen
[11:46] <czajkowski> he's cool and worked on the font
[13:39] <tdr112> hello cztab
[13:39] <czajkowski> brat behave
[13:40] <tdr112> ah i can only say it while you are not in ireland
[13:40] <czajkowski> but i am in ireland :)
[13:41] <tdr112> ok , ubuntu-ie is now a cztab free zone
[13:42] <tdr112> well, welcome back czajkowski
[13:42] <tdr112> we have a nice bit of sun for you today
[13:42] <czajkowski> lets hope it stays there tomorrrow raining down here
[13:45] <ebel> "cztab is dead, long live cztab"
[13:47] <czajkowski> i'll deal with ye tomorrow
[14:49] <czajkowski> ebel: you not around tomorrow
[14:50] <ebel> Yeah will be
[14:50] <czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-ie/1031/detail/
[14:50] <ebel> :P
[14:51] <ebel> I was *just* thinking "Oh I'll bet there's a loco meeting on LD" :P
[14:51] <ebel> and was just on that page :)
[14:53] <ebel> ha! ha i tells you
[14:53] <ebel> *registered*
[14:54] <czajkowski> ebel: no +1
[14:54] <ebel> I wonder how many people you can claim to bring...
[14:55] <czajkowski> up to 5 i think...
[14:55] <ebel> ha!
[14:55] <czajkowski> as many as you like actually
[14:55] <czajkowski> blank field
[14:56] <ebel> :P
[14:56] <czajkowski> such a cheeky fecker
[14:57] <ebel> It's django, so you can force numbers & min and max.
[14:57] <slashtom> ebel bringing "one"
[14:57]  * slashtom !
[14:58] <ebel> TBH I'm broadly against software trying to ban things like this. The software should allow a user to do that. Social norms and relations should be in force there. :()
[14:58] <ebel> * :)
[14:58] <ebel> slashtom: you're worth at least 25k people
[15:01] <slashtom> :P
[15:02] <slashtom> can you add a note against your 25,000 people, that they will be arriving based at a time based on Irish Standard Time
[15:03] <ebel> that page says IST
[15:05] <mhall119> ebel: why are you entering 250000 guests in the loco-directory?
[15:05] <ebel> mhall119: to see how high I could go.
[15:05] <ebel> I got 31½k actually
[15:05] <ebel> curiousity :)
[15:06] <mhall119> well you're flooding our inboxes with error messages :(
[15:06] <ebel> ah
[15:06] <czajkowski> ebel: gofile a bug now
[15:06] <mhall119> can you file a bug saying that it should give a friendly error message please?
[15:06] <ebel> that might be when I was binary searching for the upper bound
[15:06] <czajkowski> ebel: you are a bloody geek
[15:06] <mhall119> lol
[15:06] <czajkowski> you shall get a wallop tomorrow
[15:06] <czajkowski> file the bug now
[15:06] <mhall119> I'd expect this kind of thing from paultag...
[15:06] <czajkowski> that'll learn yoyu
[15:07] <czajkowski> right grabbing a shower
[15:07] <czajkowski> i shall expect the bug to be logged by the time i get back
[15:07] <czajkowski> then i can assign it to paultag
[15:07] <czajkowski> :p
[15:07]  * ebel files bug about threats of violence from loco council!
[15:08] <mhall119> that's a feature
[15:08] <ebel> help help my prince, i am being wronged!
[15:08] <ebel> hahahaa
[15:08] <czajkowski> mhall119: +1
[15:08] <czajkowski> i'm needed
[15:08] <mhall119> in fact, threats of violence is the most requested feature of the LC
[15:08] <czajkowski> i keep lc and ld from killing one another
[15:12] <ebel> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/806005
[15:36] <czajkowski> ebel: well done on filling our inboxes :p
[15:37] <ebel> like you've never found bugs and broken things! :P
[15:37] <czajkowski> yeah i just want getting the error bugs and the lads were wonder what kinda event was going ong
[15:37] <czajkowski> :)
[15:37] <czajkowski> nicely spotted
[15:38] <ebel> they should know ubuntu-ie is a popular loco
[15:45] <tdr112> ebel: yep 31k at our events
[15:53] <czajkowski> :)
[17:42] <mokmeister> hi all
[17:42] <mokmeister> anybody using 10.04 and firefox 5?
[17:42] <moylan> 11.04 here, sorry.
[17:44] <mokmeister> I've noticed that if I leave firefox on, memory usage just keeps going up until the whole os gets completely unresponsive
[17:44] <moylan> i have a netbook in 1gb running xubuntu 11.04.  i have firefox opened for days at a time with dozens of tabs + chrome + opera and while it can get slow once i close tabs it's fine.
[17:45] <mokmeister> I was wondering if it was part of the whole memory leak thing with X (that I thought was sorted) or if it was something else.
[17:45] <moylan> usually flash based tabs are the problem
[17:46] <mokmeister> If I leave firefox on for more than a day, it takes over 1GB RAM!!!! (I have 2GB altogether on my desktop)
[17:46] <moylan> and these days i usually use chrome for flash based nonsense.
[17:47] <mokmeister> that's what I was thinking too, but I left firefox open with just gmail, hotmail and yahoo mail open and it was still the same
[17:47] <mokmeister> tbh I haven't tried it with just , say a google page left open
[17:47] <moylan> well when flash crashes with an error message the gmail tab goes south too
[17:47] <mokmeister> gmail uses flash?
[17:48] <moylan> it looks like it.  can't be sure but it does crash when flash crashes.
[17:48] <mokmeister> hmmm. Interesting
[17:50] <moylan> http://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/11050/does-gmail-use-flash
[17:50] <mokmeister> I'm using chromium now myself at the mo, and I think the same thing is happening. Memory usage seems to be climbing. Not as dramatically as ff. started at 55MB, now 69MB.
[17:50] <mokmeister> thanks
[17:51] <moylan> when in doubt blame flash. :-)
[17:52] <mokmeister> lol! Indeed!
[17:52] <moylan> and if google can't make flash work then who can?
[17:53] <mokmeister> that was an interesting link
[17:54] <moylan> going to ubuntu hour in dublin tomorrow?
[17:59] <mokmeister> nope
[17:59] <mokmeister> down in clare
[17:59] <mokmeister> will be in Limerick and Cork for most of tomorrow
[17:59] <mokmeister> I keep missing the ubuntu hour in Limerick.
[17:59] <mokmeister> I was at the first one or two
[18:00] <mokmeister> I just keep forgetting to go then!
[18:06] <mokmeister> hmmm, after a prelimary investigation, looks like it could be flash alright. Chromium memory now 57MB & 56MB, ff steady at 132.3 MB, with only your link open.
[18:06] <mokmeister> Bummer, and I was really getting into those app tabs too!
[18:08] <moylan> local apps are always better.  but web apps are convenient.  you just have to find the balance.
[20:04] <airurando> evening all


[00:00] <LaRoza> Is this the meeting?
[00:01] <jdong> yes
[00:01] <persia> This is the Forum Council meeting.
[00:01] <jdong> waiting for people to show up
[00:01] <LaRoza> Good, my time conversions are shaky
[00:01] <jdong> I don't think it's very fun for me to blabber by myself
[00:01] <LaRoza> Well, we can blabber together
[00:01] <jdong> as much as I'd like to talk about a linear time way of finding the n largest elements of an array.
[00:01] <persia> LaRoza, `date -u` might help.
[00:02] <LaRoza> Thank you :-)
[00:03] <LaRoza> jdong: How were the tests?
[00:04] <jdong> LaRoza: not too horrible, got a 96 (avg 90), 91 (avg 69), and 69 (avg 73)
[00:04] <LaRoza> Pretty good.
[00:04] <jdong> I think I'll settle and call that okay considering I had three tests in 24 hours
[00:04] <LaRoza> You should spread them out
[00:05] <jdong> ok, I just got word from ubuntu-geek that he will be unable to attend
[00:05] <jdong> LaRoza: haha not my choice :)
[00:05] <LaRoza> jdong: I know, I am just being logical, yet useless
[00:05] <LaRoza> So what do we do? Carry on without him?
[00:06] <jdong> well yeah
[00:06] <LaRoza> liar...
[00:06] <jdong> oh speak of the devil.
[00:06] <ubuntugeek> hi
[00:06] <LaRoza> Hello
[00:06] <jdong> hi mr. i-wont-be-here :)
[00:06] <ubuntugeek> I need to step away a second
[00:07] <ubuntugeek> ok
[00:07] <ubuntugeek> :)
[00:08] <ubuntugeek> Who else is here?
[00:08] <LaRoza> Besides me and jdong?
[00:09] <ubuntugeek> Shall we get started? I am thinking we'll discuss your item first laroza
[00:09]  * jacob is here, amidst connection issues. :P
[00:09] <LaRoza> Ok
[00:09] <LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=950962
[00:10] <LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=954138
[00:10] <LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4861572
[00:10] <LaRoza> (For reference)
[00:10] <LaRoza> My initial proposal was the to rename the Sun Sparc forum to "Alterntive Platforms"
[00:10] <LaRoza> And have prefixes for the various platforms
[00:11] <LaRoza> The PPC and netbook label are possible points of issue
[00:11] <jdong> I like the idea, but I think the name "Architecture-specific discussions" would be more appropriate
[00:11] <persia> So one for LPIA, one for HPPA, one for IA64, one for SPARC, etc.?
[00:11] <LaRoza> jdong: Name isn't the issue, so that is ok
[00:11] <LaRoza> Yes
[00:11] <LaRoza> The list
[00:11] <LaRoza> (Hold on)
[00:11] <LaRoza> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=861559
[00:11] <LaRoza> alpha
[00:11] <LaRoza> arm
[00:11] <LaRoza> hppa
[00:11] <LaRoza> ia64
[00:11] <LaRoza> mips
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	alpha
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	arm
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	hppa
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	ia64
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	mips
[00:11] <ubuntugeek> 	•	mipsel
[00:11] <LaRoza> mipsel
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> 	•	powerpc
[00:12] <LaRoza> powerpc
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> 	•	PS3
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> 	•	sparc
[00:12] <LaRoza> PS3
[00:12] <LaRoza> sparc
[00:12] <jdong> mergesort!
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> 	•	Netbooks
[00:12] <LaRoza> Netbooks
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> 	•	Other
[00:12] <LaRoza> Other
[00:12] <LaRoza> The PPC could be for Apple PPC only
[00:12] <ubuntugeek> Yeah we would leave the apple forum alone in its own entity
[00:12] <LaRoza> And the netbooks could be cut out, as they are getting very popular (and would deserve their own forum)
[00:13] <jdong> well... haven't we agreed based on past experiences to reduce the number of forums in favor of the use of tags?
[00:13] <LaRoza> (But the netbook issue isn't the point here, so we'll gloss over that)
[00:13] <persia> Erm.  Ubuntu doesn't do alpha, mips, mipsel, and the ARM port is rather unofficial.
[00:13] <jdong> personally I'd rather expand the AMD64 section into a "Platform Specific Discussion" umbrella
[00:13] <persia> Also, wouldn't Netbooks be part of the Laptops section?
[00:13] <LaRoza> persia: It is meant to be a forum for hardware that would require special attention
[00:13] <LaRoza> But would have few users
[00:13] <ubuntugeek> We need to stick to platforms that ubuntu supports officially. Anything else can go in a 3rd party category
[00:13] <cjwatson> (and the arm port will be armel anyway)
[00:14] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: Ok, then that would reduce the tags
[00:14] <cjwatson> LaRoza: no users, since Ubuntu doesn't build packages for those architectures
[00:14] <persia> cjwatson, Is there any official confirmation that LP will have ARM?
[00:14] <LaRoza> Those were just pulled from what Linux supports
[00:14] <cjwatson> persia: I don't know of any blockers
[00:14] <ubuntugeek> laroza: do you have a list of the *official* ubuntu platforms handy?
[00:14] <LaRoza> The prefixes themselves could be left to another discussion, those were just possibles
[00:14] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: In a second
[00:15] <ubuntugeek> Ok
[00:15] <LaRoza> Oh, Sparc isn't currently supported and PPC isn't either
[00:15] <LaRoza> So perhaps this forum would be for any platform that Ubuntu can run on, with a note it may not be officially supported or may be for older versions
[00:16] <jacob> i386, amd64, and lpia are the only ones supported off the top of my head
[00:16] <LaRoza> jacob: Yes, I am getting that too
[00:16] <cjwatson> current officially supported architectures are i386 and amd64.
[00:16] <cjwatson> </authoritative statement>
[00:16] <persia> lpia is the same as sparc, ppc, ia64, hppa
[00:16] <jacob> ah ok.
[00:16] <LaRoza> But people will be using Ubuntu on their PS3 etc...
[00:16] <cjwatson> yes, those are community-maintained ports
[00:16] <ubuntugeek> Agreed
[00:16] <LaRoza> Perhaps the Sparc forum could be moved out entirely (as it isn't current) and it could be a Forum Community Discussions
[00:17] <cjwatson> I don't see anything wrong with having a sparc forum - we still build packages for it and such
[00:17] <persia> I like the suggestion of "Platform Specific Discussion" which is inclusive of all the ports, whether official or not.
[00:17] <cjwatson> unofficial doesn't mean nonexistent
[00:17] <LaRoza> cjwatson: Same argument applies to the other platforms
[00:17] <cjwatson> LaRoza: sure
[00:17] <LaRoza> That is my point, these platforms deserve forum attention.
[00:17] <ubuntugeek> I'd suggest this, since ubuntu 6.06 still supports sparc we leave that forum.
[00:17] <cjwatson> LaRoza: but not to alpha, mips, etc. - those are nonexistent
[00:18] <cjwatson> that's the distinction I'm drawing
[00:18] <LaRoza> cjwatson: I see
[00:18] <persia> LaRoza, The difference is mostly that nobody has ever reported a clean port to alpha, mips, mipsel, s/390, and I think the m68k port is still bootstrapping.
[00:18] <cjwatson> the architectures that actually exist in Ubuntu are: amd64 hppa i386 ia64 lpia powerpc sparc (PS3 is a subarchitecture of powerpc)
[00:18] <LaRoza> persia: ok. Debian runs on them actually
[00:18] <ubuntugeek> We can create another forum called "Architecture-specific" or something similar and pool in user driven architectures. This would go in the "other community discussions" section of the forums
[00:18] <persia> LaRoza, I know.
[00:18] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: +1
[00:19] <LaRoza> persia: My list wasn't well researched and was a list of possible platforms
[00:19] <LaRoza> I think the list it self is best served by getting community input
[00:19] <cjwatson> LaRoza: my list is well researched and authoritative. :-)
[00:19] <persia> LaRoza, Fair :)  Odd architectures are one of the things I watch .
[00:19] <LaRoza> Like there is a big interest in PS3
[00:19] <ubuntugeek> Our goal with the "Main Support Categories" of the forums are to facilitate supported platforms current and past by Ubuntu.
[00:20] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: I understand. Currently, such discussions are directed to the Caf
[00:20] <LaRoza> e
[00:20] <ubuntugeek> Jdong: thoughts?
[00:20] <jdong> the difference between PS3 and powerpc is less one of architecture than one of "platform" if that's the appropriate term...
[00:20] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I'm still thinking it over
[00:20] <cjwatson> jdong: subarchitecture, platform, that sort of thing
[00:20] <ubuntugeek> I do have to question whether or not the
[00:20] <LaRoza> jdong: And the actual prefixes would be determined by the demand
[00:21] <ubuntugeek> category would get enough traffic
[00:21] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: More than the Sparc forum gets now...
[00:21] <LaRoza> I bet
[00:21] <jdong> I also wonder if Netbook is really appropriate to group in there
[00:21] <LaRoza> jdong: Yes, it isn't
[00:21] <cjwatson> psubuntu.com was pretty popular last I checked but it's been a while
[00:21] <LaRoza> That was originally on the list because the EeePC was new and alone
[00:22] <LaRoza> It should be booted off
[00:22] <ubuntugeek> Laroza: Understood, but the sparc category was requested by canonical because it is/was an officially supported platform.
[00:22] <jdong> ok well I'm okay for a "Other architectures" type forum in place of Sparc now that Sparc apparently isn't official
[00:22] <LaRoza> Currently, people discussion putting Linux XBox's, PS3's, various devices is done in the Cafe
[00:23] <LaRoza> I predict such a forum would have traffic to justify its existance
[00:23] <ubuntugeek> cjwatson: correct me if i am wrong but sparc is still supported on 6.06?
[00:23] <LaRoza> It wouldn't be ABT traffic, but traffic none the less
[00:23] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: that's correct
[00:23] <jdong> I think we should have "Other Architectures & Platforms" which includes SPARC, other supported CPU architectures, or esoteric devices
[00:23] <jdong> supported i.e. there's a ports.ubuntu.com port
[00:24] <LaRoza> jdong: Or all non official arches and platforms
[00:24] <LaRoza> (Which would include post Dapper Sparc)
[00:24] <jdong> do we at the forums need to treat Sparc differently though?
[00:24] <LaRoza> This would require the current sparc forum stay intact for now
[00:24] <ubuntugeek> I am fine with create a non official platform section in the "Other community Categories" section.
[00:24] <jdong> has something substantially changed other than the support status?
[00:24] <ubuntugeek> creating*
[00:24] <LaRoza> jdong: Have any of us used sparc?
[00:24] <cjwatson> ubuntugeek: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-March/000400.html
[00:25] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: That is good.
[00:25] <cjwatson> i.e. supported up to 7.10
[00:25] <persia> jdong, So ports not yet on ports.ubnutu.com stay in the Caf?
[00:25] <ubuntugeek> cjwatson: thanks
[00:25] <jdong> persia: hmm I see your point
[00:25] <LaRoza> I think it should be a community discussion on any archs and platforms
[00:25] <cjwatson> jdong: you and I are using the word "supported" differently
[00:25] <LaRoza> As long as installing isn't illegal
[00:25] <cjwatson> jdong: I think you're using it to mean "exists"
[00:26] <jdong> cjwatson: right. I didn't mean it in the Canonical supports it way.
[00:26] <LaRoza> jdong: Ah, you were confusing me
[00:26] <LaRoza> Then I agree with jdong
[00:26] <LaRoza> (Or, he was agreeing with me)
[00:26] <jdong> cjwatson: I was using it to illustrate the difference between, say, Sparc and XBox
[00:26] <persia> Hrm?  Isn't XBox just i386 or ppc, depending on the generation?
[00:26] <LaRoza> This forum would attract a lot of Ubuntu questions, but would also be appropriate for any distro I think
[00:27] <LaRoza> persia: Yes, but it isn't the same as a PC
[00:27] <LaRoza> Or PPC PC
[00:27] <jdong> persia: architecturally, yes
[00:27] <jdong> persia: but it presents a different set of challenges / support questions in setting it up
[00:27] <ubuntugeek> OK, this is the proposal. We are going to leave Sparc as it is. We will create another category called "Other Architectures & Platforms" and it will appear under the "Other community Categories" the prefixes will be determined.
[00:27] <persia> LaRoza, Well, in that case, I have a parade of devices :)
[00:27] <jdong> ubuntugeek: +1
[00:27] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: +1
[00:27] <LaRoza> persia: More the merrier :-)
[00:27] <persia> Well, +1 from me, but I didn't think I had a vote :)
[00:28]  * jdong hands persia an honorary FC vote :)
[00:28] <LaRoza> Well, I was agreeing with the amended proposal of mine
[00:28] <ubuntugeek> +1
[00:29] <LaRoza> So... now are we done?
[00:29] <LaRoza> (with that issue)
[00:29] <ubuntugeek> yes
[00:29] <jdong> yeah
[00:29] <ubuntugeek> I'd like to save the staff issue for when more FC members are here
[00:29] <jdong> likewise; I don't think it's something direly urgent and needs more staff and FC participation
[00:30] <ubuntugeek> Staff issue, IE formalizing a hiring process etc.
[00:30] <ubuntugeek> Agreed Jdong
[00:30] <persia> hiring?  I suspect "recruitment" is a less loaded word.
[00:30] <ubuntugeek> Yes, sorry :)
[00:30] <LaRoza> I get paid
[00:30] <ubuntugeek> With coffee beans ;)
[00:30] <jdong> with regards to the 2nd subpoint in that, I'd like the staff to comment for us (or think about) how we feel like we're doing in terms of handling the moderation work
[00:31] <jdong> persia: well recruitment sounds like that Marine Corps guy that keeps on calling me....
[00:31] <LaRoza> I think things work fine, barring my dark period...
[00:31] <persia> jdong, Hrm.  "soliciting active members"
[00:31] <jdong> :)
[00:31] <jacob> jdong: you mean in staff hiring/recruitment, or general moderation?
[00:31] <jdong> jacob: in general moderation. More leaning towards the second part of my point on the agenda
[00:31] <jdong> i.e. do we need "moderators" in addition to staff.
[00:32] <LaRoza> In that case, I think A.I. has to use the decimator
[00:32] <jdong> I'm guessing the answer will be no, but I'd like more input.
[00:32] <ubuntugeek> Agreed, jdong perhaps this is something we can discuss on the forums and bring up in the next meeting
[00:32] <LaRoza> jdong: I don't think having levels of staff is needed like that
[00:32] <jdong> right. form your opinions in the meantime, be ready to discuss thoroughly at next meeting :)
[00:33] <jdong> as far as the forum hosting point, I think we're making some headway on that.
[00:33] <jacob> jdong: i would be in support of it, but it would need to be very clearly defined on who moderates what. it would be beneficial to post categorization mostly
[00:33] <ubuntugeek> We can put a feeler out to the mod's and let them maul it over :)
[00:33] <jdong> ubuntugeek: last I saw, we got a response back from James. Do we have any further development beyond that?
[00:33] <jacob> ✓
[00:33] <jdong> I am concerned we're in no better shape today than when I put the item up, in terms of preparedness for Intrepid.
[00:34] <ubuntugeek> On the topic of forums hosting, we did receive a reply from James. I needed to further reply to him tonight and see what his plans are to provide us with a more stable server situation.
[00:34] <LaRoza> The poor servers... when Intrepid is released, we are going to have a vacation
[00:34] <jacob> out of curiosity, how are the forums currently hosted? single server behind a proxy?
[00:34] <ubuntugeek> He mentioned something about a second web server to help handle the load but frankly we need more details.
[00:34] <jdong> jacob: a web server, a database server, and a proxy
[00:35] <jacob> ok
[00:35] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I thought he said a second database server?
[00:35] <ubuntugeek> correct, the proxy is only caching images I think right now. I'd have to confirm.
[00:35] <ubuntugeek> I hope not because thats not the issue :) let me get the email
[00:35] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I thought he said he planned that to be the way :)
[00:35] <jacob> i think a second web server would make more sense, as a db server cluster would have to constantly sync to be accurate
[00:35] <jdong> ubuntugeek: IIRC future tense was liberally used in that e-mail
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> No he said web server
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> In terms of scaling, I agree we've probably reached the limit of
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> ohiggins, and I've started things moving on our side to look at
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> upgrading a 2nd machine to a similar level as ohiggins so we can have
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> 2 backends.
[00:36] <ubuntugeek> The proxy is only caching images, css and javascript. PHP is excluded
[00:36] <jdong> right
[00:37] <ubuntugeek> Which is good because that was causing issues
[00:37] <ubuntugeek> So, we need to gather more information on this situation.
[00:37] <jacob> (insert plug about how the static files could be on a lighttpd instance to speed things up)
[00:37] <jdong> "In terms of communications, beyond my failure at replying to emails in
[00:37] <jdong> a timely fashion, part of the problem has been these outages occurring
[00:37] <jdong> at weekends. "
[00:37] <jdong> IMO the one-way communication was probably the biggest issue for us.
[00:37] <jdong> do we have any indication this will be solved?
[00:37] <ubuntugeek> Agreed, the line of communication is broke
[00:38] <ubuntugeek> I don't think calling his cell phone is a good choice we need to be more proactive and stable in our infrastructure
[00:38] <ubuntugeek> That's just my opinion
[00:38] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I agree. I'd like a form of e-mail contact that we can depend on for reasonably timely updates
[00:39] <jdong> ubuntugeek: am I correct in anticipating nothing in the server architecture can change in time for the intrepid update (feasibly)?
[00:39] <jdong> s/update/release
[00:39] <nathangrubb> Did anything interesting happen?
[00:39] <LaRoza> nathangrubb: Ssh
[00:39] <jdong> nathangrubb: yeah the entire forums are closed. we are all moving to NOMGPP.
[00:40] <ubuntugeek> jdong: I would be surprised if something happened before then.
[00:40] <nathangrubb> jdong: haha
[00:40] <jdong> ubuntugeek: well sounds like there's some underway progress on this issue now, but we should revisit at next meeting
[00:40] <jdong> i.e. to see if we make further progress or end up talking to a brick wall again.
[00:40] <ubuntugeek> I'll email james tonight the FC is on the thread so we'll just take it one step at a time and hope for a more stable future.
[00:41] <ubuntugeek> Lets keep it on the agenda for next month and if necessary a permanent item until its resolved.
[00:41] <jdong> ubuntugeek: +1
[00:41] <nathangrubb> where's the meeting's issue page?
[00:41] <LaRoza> Since no one else can, I'll vote: +1
[00:41] <jdong> well I think that's all I wanted to talk about today
[00:41] <ubuntugeek> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[00:41] <LaRoza> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[00:41] <nathangrubb> thanks
[00:42] <nathangrubb> shouldn't that be in the topic?
[00:42] <jdong> anyone else have anything they'd like discussed?
[00:42] <LaRoza> jdong: yes, a small issue
[00:42] <jacob> nathangrubb: ubottu updates the topic automatically
[00:42] <ubuntugeek> laroza: the floor is open..
[00:42] <LaRoza> In the Cafe, there are some quasi political discussions
[00:42] <ubuntugeek> OK, we can discuss that on the forums.
[00:42]  * nathangrubb has noticed these also
[00:42] <LaRoza> To what degree do we restrict? If it is friendly or minor, I feel it should be left alone
[00:43] <LaRoza> It isn't a big deal, as it seems to just deal with current events
[00:43] <perlluver> That is still political
[00:44] <jdong> well officially, I am going to say that political or current events not pertaining to FOSS or Ubuntu/Linux is not to be discussed in the Community Cafe
[00:45] <perlluver> +1 jdong
[00:45] <jdong> posting such threads is at your own risk/discretion for thread closing, jailing, and possible infractions if it gets out of hand
[00:45] <jdong> i.e. I really suggest not doing it unless you're SURE it's not a controversial topic :)
[00:45] <LaRoza> jdong: I am not doing anything :-) I let others deal with it
[00:45] <LaRoza> (Or post reminders occasionally)
[00:47] <jdong> but at any rate, I think this is an issue the staff can take care of on a case-by-case discussion
[00:47] <LaRoza> jdong: Yes, unless it gets out of hand
[00:47] <LaRoza> Next up, banning OS X users
[00:47] <jdong> right, in which case we'll all find ourselves back here.
[00:47] <cyberdork33> hey now
[00:48] <jdong> alright, I need to get back to doing homework. Any other topics?
[00:48] <ubuntugeek> Ok, the meeting is now at a end.
[00:48] <LaRoza> Should we give a warning or can we ban them at first sight?
[00:48] <jdong> that works too :)
[00:48] <LaRoza> Well, bye :-)
[00:48] <jdong> thanks, everyone for attending.
[00:48] <nathangrubb> LaRoza: you can't ban admins, n00b! /me is banned
[00:48] <ubuntugeek> larzoa, made a post in the staff area about the 2 urls you sent me.
[00:48] <jdong> [00:48] <ubuntugeek> make*
[00:48] <LaRoza> ubuntugeek: Ok
[00:48] <ubuntugeek> Thanks all
[12:59] <davidm> mobile meeting about to start
[12:59]  * ogra waves
[13:00] <davidm> #startmeeting
[13:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm.
[13:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[13:00] <ogra> no agenda
[13:01] <persia> There is too an agenda
[13:01] <davidm> Just status
[13:01] <StevenK> Therefore no meeting?
[13:01] <StevenK>  /part
[13:01] <ogra> persia, no wikipage at least
[13:01] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081023 ?
[13:01] <davidm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081023
[13:02] <davidm> it's there and I can reach it.
[13:02] <ogra> oh, thats not where the announcement mail links to
[13:02] <persia> Then the announcement mail is broken :)
[13:02] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/20081023
[13:02] <persia> Missing the year.
[13:02] <ogra> might be, but thats exposed to users :)
[13:02] <davidm> The announcment mail is broken, I goofed
[13:03] <davidm> I'll have to resend
[13:03] <persia> Anyway, getting on with the meeting already...
[13:03] <davidm> Anyway
[13:03] <davidm> I can see we are all here.
[13:03] <ogra> yeah
[13:03] <persia> lool will be late
[13:03] <davidm> I know lool told me yesterday
[13:03] <davidm> thanks
[13:03] <davidm> BUt he sent me an email so that has priority
[13:04] <davidm> we have a bug in the installer?  Bug # 287857
[13:04] <davidm> MID images are not installing?
[13:04] <persia> Yep.  I failed the MID image because of it.  RM asks if we want to release MID RC with that bug.
[13:05] <persia> Well, they install, but they are prone to user error causing a failure to start X.
[13:05] <davidm> explain please
[13:05] <persia> This worked on Monday, I think it will work again on Monday.  I'm a little annoyed it doesn't work today.
[13:05] <StevenK> They continue to ask the "Who are you?" question
[13:05] <persia> It asks for the username.  It doesn't ask when in --debug mode, so I'm having a little trouble tracking down why.
[13:05] <StevenK> Which means users can still change the username from 'ubuntu' to say, 'woei'
[13:05] <davidm> Ah so we need an errata saying not to change the user then?
[13:06] <persia> If we publish this as RC, we need that errata.
[13:06] <davidm> Well is there any chance of fixing it before RC?
[13:06] <persia> No.
[13:06] <ogra> no
[13:06] <ogra> RC is in some hours
[13:06] <davidm> Then we need an errata I think
[13:06] <persia> Essentially the choice is 1) don't publish RC for MID.  2) Publish with the bug and add errata.
[13:07] <ogra> 2 !
[13:07] <StevenK> I vote for 2, too
[13:07] <ogra> but put the bug on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone=1326
[13:07] <persia> That's three votes for 2 then.  I'll add the task and draft the errata.
[13:07] <StevenK> But this is a dictatorship, not democracy
[13:07] <StevenK> :-P
[13:07] <persia> No, it's much more complex than that.  Anyway, decision complete.
[13:08] <ogra> right, but the bug needs to be on the release team radar
[13:08] <persia> In other news, the Mobile image testing only uncovered one bug : installing in Japanese defaults the timezone to America/New_York.  Minor enough I don't see any reason to either block or issue errata.
[13:08] <davidm> Yes, please an errata and milestone it.
[13:08]  * persia will take an action on that
[13:08] <davidm> for installer that is
[13:08] <davidm> Sorry
[13:09]  * ogra likes to note that ubuntu-8.10-rc-mobile-i386.img already sits in the official prerelease pool :)
[13:09] <davidm> The mobile bug is not critical
[13:09] <davidm> annoying however
[13:09] <StevenK> persia: Installing in English also does that. I suspect the timezone doesn't change due to language
[13:09] <davidm> Sounds likely
[13:10] <persia> The image wasn't failed for the bug, so it meets with sufficient tester approval to proceed.  Another tester was unhappy about bug #284354, but I think that already has sufficient escalation.
[13:10] <persia> StevenK, It's supposed to change.
[13:10] <ogra> 284354 still needs a howto which i will write up later today
[13:10] <persia> (and, yes, English defaults to America/New_York)
[13:10] <ogra> greman doesnt
[13:11] <ogra> *german
[13:11] <ogra> it properly sets to berlin
[13:11] <persia> Right.  It's Japanese that apparently has the bug.
[13:11] <ogra> at least it did in the 20081021 image
[13:11] <persia> There's a user community here, but they are used to dealing with such issues.
[13:11] <StevenK> Maybe it's a clue that a lot of Japanese people are in America.
[13:12] <ogra> the 22, 22.1 and 22.2 images were only fresh rolls for adding the l-b-m package, there shouldnt have been additional changes
[13:12] <persia> No.  It's a bug.  Many of the Japanese localisation bugs were fixed in intrepid, but I'm getting off topic.
[13:12] <davidm> OK any further release critical bugs that I am unaware of?
[13:12] <persia> Those are the big ones for MID and Mobile.  The rest are inherited from Desktop or Xubuntu.
[13:13] <persia> (and others are chasing those)
[13:13] <davidm> [action] persia to write an errata and milestone bug #287857
[13:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to write an errata and milestone bug #287857
[13:13]  * ogra still recives .fdi files not sure i will manage to get them in in time but i think we cover a lot of HW already
[13:13]  * persia will confirm with the installer team before milestoning
[13:13] <ogra> worst case they can go into an SRU
[13:13] <davidm> Sorry brain is running slow just 1/2 way through first cup coffee
[13:14] <davidm> OK, then lets move over to status
[13:14] <persia> Oh, and for the next set of image tests, it would be good to have more than one tester per test case :p
[13:14] <davidm> I'll put a redirect page into the wiki for the agenda
[13:15] <davidm> [action] davidm to add a redirect page in wiki so folks reading announcement email get agenda
[13:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to add a redirect page in wiki so folks reading announcement email get agenda
[13:15]  * ogra will have better opportunities to test and write down stuff for final if he's not wrestling with the build and publishing tools and
[13:15] <ogra> -and
[13:15] <davidm> [topic] status
[13:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  status
[13:16] <davidm> [topic] status StevenK
[13:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  status StevenK
[13:16] <davidm> StevenK, how goes it?
[13:16] <StevenK> I've been upgrading my laptop to Intrepid, fighting my laptop, and fighting dates
[13:16] <StevenK> The laptop is mostly beaten into submission
[13:17] <ogra> dates ? with wimen ?
[13:17] <ogra> you know you shouldnt fight there, right ? :)
[13:17] <persia> Ummm.....
[13:17] <StevenK> dates-hildon, a seeded package
[13:18] <davidm> Anything else we should know about?
[13:18] <StevenK> Due to bug 284365
[13:18] <StevenK> I've been under the weather due to a splitting headache all day, does that count?
[13:19]  * ian_brasil puts that in team report
[13:19]  * StevenK hmph's at ian_brasil
[13:19] <davidm> Worth knowing about, I have have someone in Sydney come hit you with a hammer on the foot, should make headache go away ;-D
[13:19] <ogra> ian_brasil, that he had dates that resulted in headdaches ?
[13:20] <ian_brasil> team reports needs some scandal
[13:20] <ogra> hehe
[13:20] <davidm> Ok then moving on
[13:20] <davidm> [topic] persia status?
[13:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia status?
[13:20] <StevenK> Such as "ogra in Classmate / Q1U triangle!"
[13:21] <ogra> haha
[13:21] <persia> Testing.  Getting images tracked by the testing team.  Testing.  Coordinating process requirements with the release team.  Testing.
[13:21] <davidm> ummm good
[13:21] <persia> All the interesting fallout has already been discussed.
[13:22] <davidm> Yep, thanks, please keep at it
[13:22] <davidm> OK moving on again.
[13:22] <davidm> [topic] status ogra
[13:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  status ogra
[13:22] <ogra> tired :)
[13:23] <Hobbsee> he's got women and dates on the brain, clearly.
[13:23] <ogra> i was working on getting the workaround for ath5k into the image, l-b-m now sits in the /debs dir on our images
[13:23] <ogra> getting the official publisher to publish our images
[13:24] <ogra> getting it on the official webpage as well
[13:24] <davidm> I thought we were just going with an errata?
[13:24] <ogra> testing ... digging into bugs etc
[13:24] <ogra> davidm, it wont help to have errata if you have no network connection to get the package ... i.e. on devices with no wired NIC
[13:25] <ogra> so its on the image but you need to install it manually in cae you find your wlan doesnt behave
[13:25] <ogra> and afaik cjwatson takse over that model into the desktop CDs
[13:25] <ogra> or at least he suggested to
[13:25] <davidm> Ok
[13:26] <ogra> se the bottom of bug 284354
[13:26] <ogra> what we need is a howto with a step by step guide i will write late today
[13:26] <ogra> *later
[13:27] <ogra> lool tested a way to get it working in the live image already, while i focused on getting the package in for post install installation
[13:27] <davidm> OK got it, thanks
[13:27] <ogra> i think we're looking pretty well with that workaround and the desktop/alternate CDs likely following us gives my confidence it was the right choice of workaround
[13:27] <ogra> *me
[13:28] <davidm> I agree
[13:28] <davidm> anything else?
[13:28] <ogra> the official release pacge will link to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting
[13:28] <ogra> for usb images
[13:28] <ogra> so our users should be well covered with help
[13:29] <ogra> that it
[13:29] <ogra> *thats
[13:29] <davidm> great, thanks
[13:29] <davidm> [topic] status davidm
[13:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  status davidm
[13:30] <davidm> Mostly working on internal stuff.  Paper work.  Some testing, I got my laptop back and it no longer hangs on booting Intrepid.  :-)
[13:31] <davidm> not much to talk about working with team leads on bugs and getting proper approval for image releases
[13:32] <davidm> As this is the first release that we are going out with rest of distro it's been a "learning" experience.
[13:32] <davidm> that's it for me.
[13:32] <StevenK> For all of us, too
[13:32] <davidm> I'll be in London for release next week
[13:33] <StevenK> How long is the flight?
[13:33] <davidm> so I'll need to shift some calls with the team
[13:33] <davidm> 8+ hours
[13:33] <StevenK> Ew
[13:33] <davidm> I leave on Saturday arrive Sunday
[13:34] <davidm> [topic] opens, new business?
[13:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  opens, new business?
[13:34] <StevenK> I wanted to point people at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
[13:34] <StevenK> Shows how to create images using livecd-rootfs + a construction script
[13:35] <ogra> COOL !
[13:35] <StevenK> It needs a bunch of proof-reading. *hint*
[13:35] <davidm> I'll try to hit that, it needs an example section I think
[13:36] <StevenK> If you have a spare 30 minutes, try it out
[13:36] <davidm> I will
[13:36] <StevenK> Although it seems I can do it in 20, and persia in 60
[13:36] <davidm> If nothing else I'll load up my laptop before Saturday :-)
[13:37] <davidm> Anything else?
[13:37]  * ogra points at approx or apt-cacher ... you can do the second build in 5 ;)
[13:37] <persia> Oh, I have something else.
[13:37] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
[13:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageCreation
[13:37] <StevenK> ogra: That 20 is with a local mirror
[13:37] <ogra> ah
[13:38] <StevenK> ogra: There is approximately 700 packages to unpack and install -- that is the bulk of the 20
[13:38] <davidm> persia, ?
[13:38] <ogra> yeah, i was boasting a bit :)
[13:38] <persia> We need someone to put together a nice landing page for each flavour, including description, overview, hints on included stuff, and pointers to other guides.
[13:38] <persia> Front page should advertise 8.10 new features, etc.
[13:38] <ogra> where ? wiki ?
[13:38] <persia> The release announcement could take a paragraph and a pointer to the landing page.
[13:39] <ian_brasil> on this subject, we hacked the script persia mentioned on MIC to get a squashfs on devices with low disk space
[13:39] <persia> ogra, Unless you have a better idea.  I don't have hosting, and am not sure I know how to arrange it in the next few days.
[13:39] <persia> ian_brasil, You did?
[13:39]  * persia suggests TOPIC ian_brasil status
[13:39] <ian_brasil> it gives ubuntu-minimal with squashfs
[13:40] <davidm> [topic]  ian_brasil status
[13:40] <MootBot> New Topic:   ian_brasil status
[13:40] <davidm> ian_brasil, that sounds interesting
[13:40] <davidm> do you have a URL for the hacked script?
[13:41] <ian_brasil> it uses two scripts
[13:41] <ian_brasil> one called disk and the other modules
[13:42] <ian_brasil> i will post the scripts on paste
[13:42] <ian_brasil> it will be good if you can look them over
[13:43] <davidm> Nice, thanks
[13:43] <davidm> lool, you back yet?
[13:44] <davidm> looks like the answer is no
[13:44] <davidm> any other open business?
[13:45] <persia> So, if we're done with status, I'd like someone to volunteer (or be volunteered) to put together landing pages.
[13:45] <davidm> We seem to be done with status
[13:45]  * ogra still has the lbm howto ahead ... and thinks landing pages have still time until final
[13:45] <StevenK> persia: "voluntold"
[13:45] <ogra> we should have a skeleton asap though
[13:46] <persia> StevenK, works.
[13:46] <davidm> StevenK, can you get a skeleton together?
[13:46] <persia> ogra, Be nice to have skeletons for the RC announcement in a few hours, but yeah, we have a few days.
[13:46] <ogra> right
[13:46] <davidm> I'm unclear where it needs to live, persia what is the correct place for this?
[13:47]  * ogra wonders if lbm inclusion in desktop/alternate might delay RC
[13:47] <StevenK> davidm: I can probably bash rocks together and ask persia for guidance
[13:47] <persia> www.ubuntumobile.org and www.ubuntumid.org
[13:47] <persia> Alternately, www.ubuntu.com/mobile
[13:47] <persia> We're probably not going to organise that in time, so:
[13:47] <persia> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMobile and wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMID
[13:47] <StevenK> That's harder, and requires Matthew
[13:47] <ogra> right
[13:48] <persia> Right.  We'll try to fix it for Jaunty.  PR isn't one of the things we focused on for Intrepid, and it shows.
[13:48] <davidm> Very true
[13:48] <StevenK> Busy playing catch up :-(
[13:48] <davidm> OK then I'll leave that to StevenK I think we have to use wiki for now.
[13:48] <ogra> jaunty will be so boring ...
[13:49] <davidm> Anything else?
[13:49] <ogra> all important stuff is done now and we can actually focus on images
[13:49] <ian_brasil> i am up for helping with some stuff like PR if needed
[13:49] <ogra> :)
[13:49] <davidm> :) +1
[13:50] <davidm> OK, then if there is nothing else endmeeting going oncee
[13:50] <ian_brasil> paste.ubuntu.com:61509
[13:50] <ian_brasil> oops
[13:51] <persia> Let's move to -mobile for the review of the scripts.
[13:51] <davidm> that works well
[13:51] <ian_brasil> ok
[13:51] <davidm> endmeeting going twice .................
[13:53] <davidm> [endmeeting]
[13:53] <davidm> #endmeeting
[13:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:53.
[13:54]  * pitti waves
[13:55]  * ArneGoetje waves back
[13:56] <bryce> morning
[13:57] <Keybuk> wow, those mobile guys finished early today ;)
[13:57]  * pitti stops wrestling with the kernel
[13:58] <Keybuk> asac, calc, Riddell, mpt: ping
[13:59]  * asac waves
[13:59] <Riddell> hi
[13:59] <mpt> hello
[13:59]  * mvo waves
[14:00] <Keybuk> mvo: ;)
[14:00] <Keybuk> missed us already?
[14:00] <mvo> yeah!
[14:00] <mvo> old habits :)
[14:00] <seb128> mvo: !!!
[14:01] <Keybuk> ok, let's get started
[14:01] <kwwii> howdy
[14:01] <Keybuk> I don't want to take up too much of anyone's time today - as it's Release Candidate day
[14:01] <Keybuk> but there's a few team related bits to work out
[14:01] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-23
[14:01] <Keybuk> oh
[14:01] <Keybuk> #startmeeting
[14:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:01. The chair is Keybuk.
[14:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:01] <pitti> \o I have an urgent topic, too
[14:01] <Keybuk> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-23
[14:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-23
[14:01] <Keybuk> pitti: ok, can you /msg me the title
[14:01] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] New team members
[14:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  New team members
[14:02] <Keybuk> Everybody please welcome asac, ArneGoetje, bryce and calc
[14:02]  * pitti hugs our new team members, welcome!
[14:02] <mpt> Velcome!
[14:02] <ArneGoetje> thanks :)
[14:02] <asac> thanks all!
[14:02] <seb128> welcome on board!
[14:03] <pitti> changed the decoration of your offices already?
[14:03]  * kwwii hands out new name tags
[14:03] <Keybuk> since we have new members, in new and exciting timezones, that brings us to the next topic
[14:03] <asac> we need a team-flag ... kwwii anything?
[14:03] <asac> ;)
[14:03] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Team meeting time
[14:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team meeting time
[14:04] <Keybuk> I spent literally minutes struggling with Moin syntax and put together a pretty chart of when I think most people are working, and when they're awake
[14:04] <seb128> those are utc?
[14:04] <Keybuk> they are UTC, with daylight savings off
[14:04] <ArneGoetje> looks nice :)
[14:05] <mpt> A top spinning on a desk
[14:05] <Keybuk> ArneGoetje: did I get your working hours right?
[14:05] <kwwii> Keybuk: careful about making things too pretty, they'll want you to do artwork soon
[14:05] <seb128> Keybuk: well, utc doesn't change on dst does it?
[14:05] <Keybuk> seb128: but people's working ours would :p
[14:05] <seb128> right ;-)
[14:05] <seb128> that's a good point
[14:06] <ArneGoetje> Keybuk: I guess so. The important part for the meeting is 1300~1500 UTC anyways... I can extend that up to 1700 UTC maybe...
[14:06] <Keybuk> ArneGoetje: the current Foundations team meeting is 1500-1600 UTC ?
[14:06] <pitti> so 1500 or 1600 UTC seem like the least conflicting times?
[14:06] <Keybuk> indeed
[14:07] <ArneGoetje> Keybuk: yes
[14:07] <Keybuk> at 1500 UTC, bryce would have to get up at 7am his time - bryce?
[14:07] <pitti> ArneGoetje, bryce: now fight!
[14:07] <asac> sounds reasonable
[14:07] <kwwii> waht a nice way to start your day
[14:07] <Keybuk> or at 1600 UTC, ArneGoetje would have to go to bed at midnight his time - ArneGoetje?
[14:07] <bryce> Keybuk: still early, but I can do it
[14:07] <ArneGoetje> Keybuk: I'm usually not in bed before 1 am anyways...
[14:08] <Keybuk> if I suggest 1600 UTC?  would that be bad?
[14:08] <calc> sorry was in another window
[14:08] <asac> so 1600 UTC? i can certainly push that schedule back one hour
[14:08] <asac> so would work
[14:08] <asac> oh i even wouldnt ;)
[14:08] <ArneGoetje> Keybuk: sould work
[14:09] <Keybuk> ArneGoetje: ok, if it doesn't work out, shout! and we'll see what we can tweak down the line
[14:09] <cjwatson> 1500 UTC is 8am bryce's time, not 7am
[14:09] <Keybuk> I'm always vaguely in favour of geeks staying up an extra hour than getting up an hour early :p
[14:09] <ArneGoetje> Keybuk: no problem
[14:09] <cjwatson> well, at the moment :)
[14:09] <Keybuk> cjwatson: the next meeting takes place after the DST shift for everyone
[14:09] <bryce> :-)
[14:09] <cjwatson> ah, sorry, you were doing that without DST - I'll shut up
[14:09] <Keybuk> ok
[14:10] <Keybuk> since it's going to be that time, that clashes with the manager's meeting
[14:10] <Keybuk> so I'd suggest a day change
[14:10] <pitti> eww
[14:10] <Keybuk> any particular feelings for a different day from anyone
[14:10] <calc> isn't the foundations meeting on wed?
[14:10] <Keybuk> Friday?  Wednesday?
[14:10] <pitti> Friday -> release team meeting
[14:10] <Keybuk> pitti: not after the release it won't be?
[14:10] <ArneGoetje> any day is fine for me
[14:10] <bryce> me too
[14:10]  * pitti isn't available Mon and Wed evenings
[14:10] <bryce> on a friday we might miss people more due to holidays
[14:11] <asac> friday would be quite bad. i agree
[14:11] <pitti> if it's 1600 UTC, that would WFM in winter, though
[14:11] <Keybuk> how about Tuesday?
[14:11] <seb128> pitti: 16utc is 17h local time
[14:11] <asac> i am frequently traveling fri evening
[14:11] <pitti> seb128: right, in winter that works fine
[14:11] <asac> tuesday is fine
[14:12] <seb128> I don't like friday evening, people sometime stop working on decent hours on friday after a busy week
[14:12] <kwwii> asac: the bar cannot be that far away
[14:12] <Keybuk> agree
[14:12] <Keybuk> I tend to prefer not Wednesday, since that would prevent people attending both Desktop and Foundations
[14:12] <asac> kwwii: ;)
[14:12] <Keybuk> Tuesday on #ubuntu-desktop (since meeting is busy with the server team)
[14:12] <Keybuk> any objections? concerns?
[14:12] <seb128> works for me
[14:12] <asac> works
[14:12] <pitti> Tuesday 1600 UTC? WFM
[14:12] <calc> wfm
[14:12] <ArneGoetje> wfm
[14:13] <Riddell> good here
[14:13] <mpt> ok
[14:13] <Keybuk> ok
[14:13] <Keybuk> done
[14:13] <seb128> \o/
[14:13] <seb128> that was easier that I would have expected ;-)
[14:13] <asac> that was easier than expected
[14:13]  * asac hugs seb128
[14:13]  * seb128 hugs asac
[14:14] <Keybuk> ok, I'll try and figure out how to effect that change in Google Calendar ;)
[14:14] <Keybuk> we won't have a meeting next week due to the release
[14:14] <Keybuk> so the first meeting on the new schedule will be Tuesday November 4th at 16:00 UTC
[14:15] <bryce> election day!
[14:15] <pitti> oh, is it? whoo
[14:15] <calc> Keybuk: btw i will be in beijing that day :)
[14:15] <kwwii> bryce: your are assuming america won't go belly up by then
[14:15] <Keybuk> calc: indeed
[14:15] <Keybuk> ok
[14:15] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] hardy langpack update
[14:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  hardy langpack update
[14:15] <Keybuk> pitti:
[14:15] <mpt> I may not be here that day
[14:15] <pitti> so, AFAIK the current hardy langpacks still break firefox translatiosn
[14:16] <pitti> asac: is the firefox scripts side fixed, or does that need work?
[14:16] <pitti> once that's confirmed fixed (with the autobuilt weekly PPA packages preferably), we need an urgent hardy langpack update
[14:16] <asac> pitti: rosetta and po2xpi are fine. its just that launchpad decided to forget about the latest templates and exports something rotten old
[14:17] <asac> pitti: we can fix that manually by uploading ... just thought this would be the right time to track this down
[14:17] <asac> as it happened for the 2nd time already
[14:17] <pitti> asac: since intrepid exports are fine, could we use those as a workaround for hardy?
[14:17] <asac> pitti: if its urgent to get langpacks out to hardy, i can show ArneGoetje how to manually upload that
[14:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: what's the process there? how does that import work?
[14:18] <pitti> asac: I'd call it pretty urgent, yes
[14:18] <asac> ArneGoetje: you build firefox locally and then upload the en-US.xpi
[14:18] <asac> that is in debian/lp-*/ folder
[14:19] <ArneGoetje> asac: if that's so simple, then where is the problem on the rosetta side?
[14:19] <asac> pitti: ok. wasnt really communicated to me that there were critical fixes in that langpack update
[14:19] <asac> ArneGoetje: the problem is that launchpad shouldnt reset that on every upload
[14:19] <ArneGoetje> asac: need to ping jtv about that?
[14:20] <pitti> ok, that sounds like an action item now
[14:20] <pitti> so eventually it's a rosetta problem, but we have a workaround?
[14:20] <asac> ArneGoetje: we had lengthy discussions about that. the issue appears to be somewhere between soyuz, something and rosetta
[14:20] <asac> we didnt investigate because of release things
[14:20] <seb128> we should so stop using language packs :-)
[14:20] <asac> pitti: we dont know if its a rosetta problem. jtv claims that launchpad uploads something old
[14:21] <ArneGoetje> asac: orz
[14:21] <pitti> yeah, it doesn't really help that intrepid KDE langpacks are also b0rked :/
[14:21] <bryce> seb128: just have everything in german, right?
[14:21] <asac> pitti: remember what we discussed about langpacks & security et al?
[14:21] <pitti> asac: yes, I do
[14:21] <asac> ok
[14:21] <seb128> bryce: no, in french ;-)
[14:21] <cjwatson> pitti: need to pedal harder on the LP appservers doing the import
[14:21] <asac> just wanted to ensure you have the context.
[14:21] <pitti> but I have NFC where the old ones could come from
[14:21] <asac> pitti: action would be to ask infinity whats going on i think
[14:22] <pitti> LP logs like *everything*, there must be a way to track this
[14:22] <asac> ok lets add that as an official action and then do the workaround
[14:22] <pitti> agreed
[14:22] <asac> the action should be enough so it doesnt get forgotten
[14:22] <pitti> once hardy is back to sane langpacks, we can fix it properly
[14:22] <Keybuk> so I had noted that asac will help arne do a manual upload, and asac will talk to infinity to find out what's going on?
[14:23] <Keybuk> is that right?
[14:23] <asac> Keybuk: yes, but the infinity part might happen after release
[14:23] <Keybuk> np
[14:23] <asac> depending on what happens here :)
[14:23] <Keybuk> [ACTION] asac to help ArneGoetje perform a manual upload
[14:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to help ArneGoetje perform a manual upload
[14:23] <Keybuk> [ACTION] asac to talk to infinity to find out why Launchpad is breaking firefox langpacks
[14:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to talk to infinity to find out why Launchpad is breaking firefox langpacks
[14:24] <Keybuk> ok
[14:24] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Release Status
[14:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Status
[14:24] <Keybuk> pitti: anything you want to cover today?
[14:24] <pitti> SNAFU
[14:24] <pitti> I mean, "not really"
[14:24] <Keybuk> :p
[14:24] <Keybuk> in which case
[14:24] <Keybuk> AOB?
[14:24] <pitti> I spent so much time with juggling release stuff that I'd think I'm up to date
[14:25] <Keybuk> #endmeeting
[14:25] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:25.
[14:25] <Keybuk> thanks everybody
[14:25] <asac> thanks
[14:25] <kwwii> thanks
[14:25] <pitti> thanks everyone
[14:25] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[14:25] <calc> thanks
[14:25]  * kwwii wonders how bryce knew that seb128 is half german
[14:25] <seb128> Keybuk: thanks
[14:25] <calc> so reports are now due at COB Monday right?
[14:25] <pitti> just look at a map :)
[14:26] <Keybuk> calc: right
[14:26] <pitti> calc: ah, good point
[14:26] <calc> ok
[14:26]  * pitti adjusts gtimelog start of week
[14:26] <seb128> pitti: still using gtimelog? ;-)
[14:26] <Keybuk> oh damn
[14:26] <pitti> seb128: sure, why not?
[14:26] <pitti> it's nice
[14:26] <pitti> and I like having a diary
[14:26] <Keybuk> that means I have to update another bloody google calendar event
[14:26]  * Keybuk weeps
[14:26] <seb128> pitti: lazyness? ;-)
[14:26] <bryce> thanks
[14:27] <pitti> seb128: it helps me to focus and remember what I did
[14:27] <Keybuk> I had to resort to *deleting* the previous desktop team meeting one, and creating a new one
[14:27] <Keybuk> since it ended up both on tuesday and thursday at both 1300 and 1600
[14:27] <pitti> Keybuk: there is this interesting brand new UI concept of "drag and drop"; maybe someone should tell Google about it
[14:28] <Keybuk> pitti: that's what I did
[14:28] <Keybuk> google calendar just gets things wrong
[14:28] <pitti> just what I mean :)
[14:29] <calc> it seems to work for non-recurring events
[14:29] <cjwatson> it usually works fine for me if you click on the event and edit its times
[14:29] <cjwatson> and then say "all the following"
[14:29] <calc> i don't have anything recurring on my calendar that i have tried to move
[14:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: for me, it's "all the following" that always goes wrong
[14:29] <Keybuk> it usually manages to duplicate the event, with only half the changes you made
[14:29] <cjwatson> odd, that normally works fine for me
[14:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I think it also depends whether the event is on your calendar or not
[14:30] <cjwatson> Keybuk: mm, could do
[15:05] <Koon> anyone here for the Java meeting ?
[15:05] <cody-somerville> I am
[15:06] <Koon> cody-somerville: o/
[15:07] <Koon> cody-somerville: while we wait for persia... somewhat Java related, I have a Tomcat 5.5 SRU waiting for acceptation
[15:07] <Koon> bug 179447
[15:07]  * persia is late and distracted, and hopes Koon can continue to chair
[15:08] <Koon> persia: ok
[15:09] <Koon> anyone else for the Java meeting ?
[15:09] <Koon> slytherin ?
[15:10] <Koon> hhmmmkay. Meeting agenda is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[15:10] <Koon> Which is basically a symlink to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Roadmap
[15:11] <Koon> Without slytherin and robilad around, that just leaves me to update my point
[15:11]  * cody-somerville reads SRU request.
[15:12] <Koon> About Maven
[15:12] <Koon> cody-somerville: thanks
[15:12] <Koon> I probably won't be able to do an Ant-based packaging session for OpenWeek
[15:13] <Koon> so if anyone feels like doing it, I can help to give pointers and good example libraries
[15:13] <persia> I can maybe do it, but I have trouble with sessions later than 16:00, so scheduling is hard.
[15:13] <persia> cody-somerville, Up for some Java?
[15:14] <cody-somerville> I'm in Lexington at that time
[15:14] <cody-somerville> Doing some infrastructure migration
[15:14] <persia> Ah.
[15:15] <Koon> i'll try to corner slytherin and try to convince him :)
[15:15] <cody-somerville> :)
[15:16] <Koon> That's about it for Maven.
[15:16] <Koon> Any other subject someone wants to raise ?
[15:16] <persia> We have the Jaunty spec for Maven.  Do we have anything else we want to do?  Release is very close, and I think we'd do well to think about next cycle.
[15:18] <persia> OK.  I'll withdraw that question.  Nothing else from me.
[15:18] <Koon> persia: do you plan to run a Java session at UDS, like we had in Prague ?
[15:18] <cody-somerville> Koon, is tomcat5.5 starting with out a jdk expected behaviour?
[15:19] <Koon> yes, it makes use of ECJ to compile JSPs so it doesn't require a JDK
[15:19] <persia> Koon, I don't have a plan to do that.  Do you think we should have a Java roundtable session?
[15:20] <Koon> persia: I won't be there so that would be mostly to gather momentum/ideas for the Java team
[15:20] <Koon> cody-somerville: the bug is mostly to make it support openjdk, as a side-effect it also fixes the "should run with JRE" issue
[15:21] <cody-somerville> Koon, this is because OpenJDK is what will be pulled in if you just install tomcat by its self without specifying a JRE?
[15:21] <persia> Koon, OK.  I'll see if a Java roundtable can be arranged.  In what timezone do you expect to be?  Is morning or afternoon better for you remotely?
[15:21] <Koon> cody-somerville: yes
[15:23] <Koon> cody-somerville: hm, not exactly
[15:23] <Koon> cody-somerville: let's discuss that on #ubuntu-java
[15:23] <Koon> persia: I'll be stuck in Europe
[15:23] <cody-somerville> ok
[15:24] <Koon> so west-coast early mornings might be our best bet
[15:24] <persia> Koon, I'll see if I can organise a morning session then : something around 18::00 UTC (If I'm doing my math right).
[15:25] <persia> OK.  Any other topics for discussion?
[15:26] <Koon> nope
[15:26] <persia> Right then.  Good luck with final release prep :)


[02:24] <edv> hi guys, just check in
[02:25] <edv> are there's any people from South East Asia ?
[03:01] <flamingphoenix> anyone here
[04:45] <dell> Boa noite
[04:46] <dell> Algum brasileiro aqui?
[08:26] <stinkfoot> when i go to hexchat, what is the best and most used chat channel?
[08:38] <stinkfoot> hi
[14:02] <finexbeer> is the lenovo n22 good for ubuntu mate
[14:14] <SuperEngineer> If it's good for Linux, it's good for Ubuntu Mate [personal opinion]
[14:16] <finexbeer> is good for progaming
[14:16] <SuperEngineer> ?
[14:17] <finexbeer> if it this pc good for programing
[14:17] <SuperEngineer> [soorry, don't know the answer to that 1.. but if it's supplied with a good processor, memory and disk,, why mot?
[14:19] <finexbeer> it got 4gb ram a 1.6 ghz and 30gb of speace
[14:19] <ubuntu-mate> hello everyone
[14:19] <finexbeer> hi
[14:20] <finexbeer> ubuntu
[14:20] <finexbeer> is the levono n22 good for this opereting sistem
[14:20] <ubuntu-mate> is there anything you need help with?
[14:21] <finexbeer>  is the levono n22 good for this opereting sistem?? ubuntu mate
[14:21] <SuperEngineer> ubuntu-mate ^
[14:21] <ubuntu-mate> give me a minute and i will tell you
[14:22] <finexbeer> ok
[14:22] <finexbeer> thatnks
[14:22] <ubuntu-mate> well, im running ubuntu mate now on 4 gb of ram and it behaves ok
[14:23] <ubuntu-mate> what is the cpu model?
[14:23] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: a [hopefully] helpful hint... use tab to auto-complete names
[14:23] <ubuntu-mate> thx
[14:25] <finexbeer> intel hd
[14:26] <ubuntu-mate> i say it should work
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: what are the sellers asking you to pay for it?
[14:27] <finexbeer> and the HP G5 255 Notebook
[14:27] <ubuntu-mate> it appears to be a chromebook, why do you want to change from chrome os to ubuntu mate?
[14:28] <finexbeer> i wanna a linux pc laptop for coding
[14:28] <ubuntu-mate> ok
[14:29] <finexbeer> i wanna buy a new pc
[14:29] <ubuntu-mate> i think this laptop goes for $200 on amazon
[14:30] <SuperEngineer> seems good then
[14:31] <ubuntu-mate> well, if you could get ubuntu mate to run on this laptop then it should be quite good
[14:32] <ubuntu-mate> i gotta go, sorry. bye
[14:33] <finexbeer> thanks
[14:34] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: which lenovo was it again, please.  [just doing a google search]
[14:34] <finexbeer> lenovo n20
[14:35] <finexbeer> n22 sorry
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> try https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Lenovo/
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> if it is Ubuntu certifi
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> certified, it'll be ok for Ubuntu-Mate. The specs for yours are "good enough" for proamming, but compiling may be a bit slow, burt not too slow t worry about.
[14:38] <Akuli> i could do almost all of my programming on a 10 year old computer
[14:39] <finexbeer> ok thanks
[14:39] <SuperEngineer> Akuli:  I could do mine on a rubber band, with patience.
[14:40] <Akuli> i think my laptop is soon 10 years old, and its really fast with an ssd
[14:41] <SuperEngineer> Anything is faster with 1 odf those.  How does that help the person with the question though?
[14:42] <Akuli> i don't know :)
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> ;-)
[15:23] <finexbeer> is the intell Celeron good for ubuntu
[15:24] <alkisg> Which one? specific name?
[15:24] <alkisg> There are celerons from 2000 and from 2017...
[15:25] <finexbeer> Intel Celeron N3050
[15:26] <alkisg> Yes, it's good enough
[15:26] <alkisg> Although it's a slow processor, you could have bought something a lot better with a littler more money...
[15:27] <alkisg> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+N3050+%40+1.60GHz
[15:27] <alkisg> Score: 892
[15:27] <alkisg> There are celerons with 3000+ score... 3-4 times faster
[15:29] <finexbeer> APU AMD E2-7110 con scheda grafica Radeon™ R2 (1,8 GHz, 2 MB di cache, 4 core) and this is good or not good
[15:31] <alkisg> Yes it's good
[16:18] <juan_> hola
[16:30] <SuperEngineer> espanol?
[16:31] <Akuli> he quit already :(
[16:31] <SuperEngineer> anticipation perhaps?
[16:32] <Akuli> people are not familiar with the concept of waiting 10 minutes :)
[16:32] <Akuli> i think the /topic should be more verbose about waiting
[16:32] <Akuli> like "WAIT AT LEAST 10 MINUTES"
[16:48] <SuperEngineer> oe, instead of "wait at least 10 minutes", let them know that "You are on IRC, everyone is not always here, others maybe eventually here.  Stop being so impatient and hang around... or ask youself, why did I ask on IRC"  ;-)
[16:48] <SuperEngineer> *or
[16:50] <SuperEngineer> "We are here to help, if we can, we can't work miracles" ;-)
[16:52] <SuperEngineer> [except me, of course... my work place seem to think I *can* work miracles!  [#puke
[18:16] <john69> hello... just installed Ubuntu MATE a few days ago...
[18:16] <john69> having a fun time setting it up the way i like
[18:16] <john69> but can't figure out for the life of me how to DELETE Firefox
[18:17] <john69> it doesn't show up in the 'Software Boutique" as an installed App
[18:17] <alkisg> You can install another browser and make it default
[18:17] <john69> yep... did that
[18:17] <alkisg> If you remove the default browser, which is firefox, some mate programs will be removed too
[18:17] <john69> not want to get rid of Firefox
[18:18] <john69> like which ones?  thunderbird?
[18:18] <john69> i'm fine with removing that as well... using Evolution
[18:18] <alkisg> sudo apt-get purge firefox
[18:18] <alkisg> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[18:18] <alkisg>   firefox* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:19] <Akuli> alkisg, that's not correct
[18:19] <Akuli> ubuntu-mate-core and ubuntu-mate-desktop are meta packages
[18:19] <Akuli> installing them pulls in a bunch of stuff, but removing them does nothing
[18:19] <alkisg> No, remember you were wrong there
[18:19] <Akuli> well, i haven't had those things installed for a long time :)
[18:19] <alkisg> Removing meta-packages and running auto-remove, removes their recommendations too
[18:19] <Akuli> then we can apt-mark them installed
[18:19] <alkisg> You were right in the part that they're marked as 'manually installed 'from the live cd though
[18:22] <alkisg> $ sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ubuntu-mate-core ubuntu-mate-desktop
[18:22] <alkisg>   bluez-cups* pppoeconf* printer-driver-pxljr* printer-driver-splix* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:22] <alkisg> So no, some packages aren't marked as manually installed
[18:24] <alkisg> The best thing to do would be for these to be "recommends", not "depends"... so that we could remove whatever we wanted without ubuntu-mate-core getting purged too
[18:24] <john69> hmmm... ok
[18:24] <Akuli> anyway i have often removed firefox no problem
[18:25] <Akuli> i think we should recommend that to john69 instead of forcing him to stick with a browser he doesn't like
[18:25] <alkisg> Having firefox installed doesn't mean that he has to use it too
[18:25] <Akuli> yeah but still
[18:25] <Akuli> why not help him
[18:25] <alkisg> I say what I believe is best... if he insists on removing it, he can surely do so
[18:26] <john69> well... if taking it off my system will break other stuff i might need (like printing)
[18:26] <john69> maybe i don't want to remove Firefax
[18:26] <Akuli> of course, we can fix that :)
[18:26] <alkisg> john69: no, it involves these things:
[18:27] <alkisg> 1) now, you manually marking the auto-removed packages as manually installed, so that they don't get removed,
[18:27] <alkisg> and 2) in the future, to run `apt show ubuntu-mate-core` on each update, and see if it has more dependencies, so that you manually install them
[18:27] <alkisg> If you do want to do those, it's quite easy to remove firefox
[18:27] <Akuli> whats the point of 2)
[18:27] <alkisg> An update of mate might depend on new programs
[18:27] <alkisg> If he removes ubuntu-mate-core, he will lose the new pgroams
[18:28] <alkisg> *programs
[18:28] <Akuli> then why wouldn't it get installed by itself?
[18:28] <alkisg> If one has ubuntu-mate-core, and it starts depending on new programs, they will be automatically installed
[18:28] <Akuli> ubuntu-mate-blabla is not quite the same as mate-desktop-blabla
[18:28] <alkisg> If one has removed ubuntu-mate-core, he won't get them
[18:28] <Akuli> why would he need them?
[18:28] <alkisg> Run apt-show ubuntu-mate-core and see if you need them
[18:29] <alkisg> All mate is there
[18:29] <alkisg> If you don't need mate... sure you can remove it
[18:29] <alkisg> 100 packages...
[18:29] <Akuli> "It is safe to remove this package if some of these packages are not desired."
[18:29] <Akuli> says this system
[18:29] <Akuli> not sure about 16.04
[18:29] <alkisg> Yes, and you still need to look manually which of them you want or not
[18:30] <alkisg> If he wants to start doing that manually in the future, he can remove firefox
[18:30] <Akuli> well you know we could just get rid of it, apt-mark them all installed and be done with it
[18:30] <alkisg> I don't want to have to check 100 dependencies on each update...
[18:30] <Akuli> why would you?
[18:30] <alkisg> He will lose future packages, future dependencies of ubuntu-mate-core
[18:30] <Akuli> i don't believe in ending up with anything breaking on update because of this
[18:31] <alkisg> Not breaking. Missing.
[18:31] <alkisg> See ubuntu-mate-core of 14.04 and of 16.04
[18:31] <Akuli> can you explain why he would need those future packages?
[18:31] <alkisg> I'm sure you'll find out that 16.04 depends on 10 more packages
[18:31] <alkisg> So, if someone removed firefox, and upgraded from 14.04 to 16.04, he wouldn't have them
[18:31] <Akuli> what are those 10 packages?
[18:32] <alkisg> I would have to check in packages.ubuntu.com
[18:32] <alkisg> I don't want to risk though
[18:32] <alkisg> And that's a risk that I want to warn him about
[18:32] <alkisg> If you know that he won't need them, then sure tell him
[18:32] <Akuli> ok i'll check
[18:32] <alkisg> But I don't know the future
[18:32] <Akuli> i have a 16.04 stick somewhere
[18:33] <Akuli> or you know, if this is such a huge problem let's make a dummy package that represents firefox and install that
[18:33] <alkisg> Compare those for example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/ubuntu-mate-core and http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/ubuntu-mate-core
[18:34] <alkisg> I want to tell him that the new packages there will be missing, and that if he wants them, he'll have to install them manually
[18:34] <alkisg> If you _know_ the future and that he'll never end up wanting the new dependencies, then sure you can tell him not to worry
[18:35] <Akuli> it's hard to say anything without knowing what these changes are
[18:35] <Akuli> let me compare these
[18:35] <alkisg> You can compare those; but you can't compare with the future ones
[18:35] <alkisg> That's the biggest risk there
[18:35] <Akuli> i still don't understand why not getting a package would be "a risk"
[18:35] <Akuli> unless a new version of some program breaks without it, but apt will take care of installing it then
[18:37] <alkisg> The "risk" of missing packages is that you don't know that you need them
[18:37] <alkisg> For example, if you don't get hplip, printing won't work
[18:37] <alkisg> And you'll have to google and spend a  couple of hours until you realize that hplip was missing
[18:37] <alkisg> That's a real example that happened to me
[18:37] <Akuli> a desktop environment's job is not to install printer drivers
[18:38] <alkisg> Didn't you see what I pasted above?
[18:38] <Akuli> comparing them
[18:38] <alkisg> (08:22:28 μμ) alkisg: $ sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ubuntu-mate-core ubuntu-mate-desktop
[18:38] <alkisg> (08:22:28 μμ) alkisg:   bluez-cups* pppoeconf* printer-driver-pxljr* printer-driver-splix* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:38] <alkisg> It says "printer" there :)
[18:38] <alkisg> And it's installed by the desktop environment
[18:39] <alkisg> Also, ubuntu-mate-core does recommend hplip, it's what installs it
[18:39] <Akuli> ok, if you think this is such a huge problem let's make a dummy package
[18:40] <alkisg> Why? What's so annoying about having firefox installed?
[18:40] <alkisg> If it's the icon in the menu, you can dpkg-divert it
[18:40] <Akuli> or you know
[18:40] <Akuli> delete the .desktop file
[18:40] <alkisg> No, it will be put there again on updates
[18:48] <john69> thanks guys... thought it would be simple... but it looks like it isn't
[18:49] <john69> i'll just leave it alone
[18:49] <Akuli> it is simple
[18:49] <john69> 30+ lines of discussion about it doesn't look 'simple' to me  ;)
[18:50] <Akuli> i guess less than 10 commands isn't too bad?
[18:50] <Akuli> that is, a fake firefox package
[18:51] <john69> ciao!
[18:51] <Akuli> oh lol
[18:51] <Akuli> i made a fake firefox for that guy
[18:51] <alkisg> Ηαηα
[18:51] <alkisg> Haha
[18:52] <alkisg> Helping teachers made me not listen to what they say, but imagine what's best for them in the long run... :D
[18:52] <Akuli> this just seems way too much windows
[18:52] <Akuli> "can i disable this and this feature i don't want? no, it breaks everything"
[18:53] <alkisg> Nah. Remember, not everyone is Akule and knows how to make packages...
[18:53] <Akuli> you know what
[18:53] <alkisg> If someone adds a PPA, there's a 20% chance that it'll break his apt-get update some time in the future
[18:53] <Akuli> just booted 16.04 from a stick and ran sudo apt remove firefox
[18:53] <Akuli> looks like no other packages at all are going away!
[18:54] <alkisg> So? Warn them about it when they ask "how can I get libreoffice 5 in ubuntu 12.04"?
[18:54] <alkisg> I think sometime in the past you said that you don't have ubuntu-mate-core installed anymore
[18:54] <Akuli> no, this is a live session
[18:54] <Akuli> i mean this one i ran the firefox remove in
[18:55] <alkisg> Does it have ubuntu-mate-core installed?
[18:55] <Akuli> lol not even in repos :D
[18:55] <Akuli> what the heck
[18:55]  * Akuli facepalms
[18:55] <Akuli> this is an unity ubuntu
[18:55] <alkisg> Haha
[18:57] <Akuli> just because you might be interested
[18:57] <Akuli> the fake package http://termbin.com/pobe
[18:57]  * alkisg has made fake packages before... damn depends: instead of recommends: :)
[18:57] <Akuli> i think this is kind of lol http://termbin.com/wyue
[18:57] <Akuli> Version: 10000.0
[18:58] <alkisg> Also, remove and then dpkg -i will have the issue again
[18:59] <alkisg> Only do the dpkg -i part without the removal first... and then apt-get purge --auto-remove
[18:59] <Akuli> oh probably better idea yes
[18:59] <Akuli> i forgot that dpkg -i can upgrade
[19:35] <hadi> hi
[19:35] <Akuli> hi
[19:35] <hadi> i want to install open vpn on ubuntu mate plz help me
[19:36] <Akuli> $ sudo apt install openvpn
[19:36] <Akuli> i guess
[19:37] <hadi> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[19:37] <hadi> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[19:37] <hadi> this error!
[19:38] <alkisg> ps aux | grep apt | nc termbin.com 9999
[19:38] <hadi> ?
[19:38] <alkisg> This will tell us what is using apt
[19:39] <hadi> http://termbin.com/dr02
[19:40] <alkisg> sudo kill 3023; sudo apt install openvpn
[19:41] <hadi> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[19:41] <hadi> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[19:45] <alkisg> hadi: and the output of ps aux|grep apt|nc termbin.com 9999 now?
[19:45] <alkisg> Wasn't apt killed with the kill command?