[01:19] <ali1234> my motherboard has two sata controllers on it - which one should i use? the integrated chipset one, or the extra one? or should i put 1 drive on each?
[01:23] <ali1234> i ask because disk io makes my machine unusable for long periods
[01:31] <directhex> ali1234, use the integrated one, in AHCI mode
[01:32] <ali1234> ok, i think that's what i am doing
[01:32] <directhex> disk io making things slow is... well, something linux sucks at
[01:34] <ali1234> it seems excessive though
[01:34] <ali1234> for example, when i hit swap, page fault latency = 1.2 seconds
[01:35] <ali1234> that basically locks up the machine, even logging in on a console can take 5 minutes
[01:39] <directhex> ali1234, i did mention it sucks, right? linux doesn't prioritize interactive stuffs
[01:39] <directhex> now i'm going to bed.
[01:41] <ali1234> 1.2 seconds is still excessive especially when it locks up all tasks, not just the task that had the pf
[01:42] <ali1234> anyway going to play with swappiness maybe that will help
[05:21] <MartijnV1S> \o
[05:50] <shauno> mornin MartijnVdS
[06:08] <knightwise> morning
[06:12] <ging> morning
[06:26] <knightwise> morning ging
[07:09] <daubers> Morning
[07:14] <knightwise> mornign douglasawh-work
[07:14] <knightwise> morning daubers
[07:14] <knightwise> everything ok over there ,
[07:14] <AlanChicken> morning
[07:15] <AlanChicken> gah
[07:15] <AlanBell> better
[07:15] <daubers> :)
[07:16] <ging> you can get gingerdogs?
[07:25] <knightwise> hey AlanBell
[07:26] <HazRPG> hey
[07:29] <HazRPG> wow its AM...
[07:29] <HazRPG> bad sleeping pattern is bad...
[07:29]  * daubers needs to get a parcel from rubbish city link shortly
[07:30] <HazRPG> daubers: heh, I always hate getting a package from them too
[07:30] <HazRPG> means I need to drive for like 45 mins to get it :?
[07:30] <daubers> stupid shaver breaking down and then city link not actually delivering the new on on saturday
[07:30] <daubers> HazRPG: Luckily they're only about 10 minutes from me
[07:30] <daubers> traffic depending
[07:31] <HazRPG> UPS is the worst for me, although its nearer... its in the centre of town, so I have to drive through the dreadful one-way system and get stuck in all the traffic
[07:32] <daubers> They're all roughly in the same place here. UPS and citylink are a bit worse to get to as you have to go under a narrow bridge, which is a major bottleneck in the mornings
[07:32] <daubers> also, that road is shutting for a week in a months time so that network rail can put in another bridge
[07:33] <HazRPG> heh
[07:33] <HazRPG> see they use to all be in the same place for me at one point, but they keep shifting their offices around from time to time
[07:34] <daubers> HazRPG: This is the bridge they put in a bit further up over new year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9m00_OBrI :)
[07:37] <HazRPG> daubers: heh, wow they actually made a time-lapse video :P
[07:37] <daubers> :)
[07:38] <daubers> Quite impressive
[07:38] <daubers> the timelapse, not popeys age
[07:38] <HazRPG> daubers: :P
[07:38] <HazRPG> popey: Happy birthday squire :)
[07:40] <HazRPG> I love how the bridge looks like it was randomly just slotted in there xD
[07:41] <daubers> They had to close a major dual carriageway to do that
[07:41] <daubers> Was impressed that they did it all in a couple of dats
[07:41] <daubers> days
[07:42] <HazRPG> hmm, you clearly haven't seen Saudi construction ;)
[07:42] <daubers> :p
[07:42] <daubers> right
[07:43] <daubers> off to city link I go!
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: is it that good or that bad? :)
[07:43] <HazRPG> I've seen them build skyscrapers in a few weeks/months
[07:43] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'd say it was impressive
[07:44] <HazRPG> they resurface whole 8-12 lane roads in like a few days
[07:44] <cps> morning everyone :-)
[07:44] <HazRPG> they just block the whole thing off... resurface, and work until its done
[07:44] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I wonder about builder safety, building safety (building codes, etc.)
[07:44] <HazRPG> here where I'm at, it'll take them weeks/months before they've even got one side of a 2 lane road done!
[07:45] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Because it's not the only place being resurfaced, and there being a limited supply of asphalt
[07:45] <ging> HazRPG: they hire an army of forign imigrants and dont give them any real health and safety protection rules
[07:45] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: most construction companies are run by british/american/french people ;)
[07:46] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: French people. There you go :P
[07:46] <HazRPG> lol
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> Well, they're not all bad. Gandi.net is good :)
[07:47] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Didn't realise asphalt was in limited supply :/
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> But our VOIP provider at work is bad bad bad
[07:47] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: not in SA, the land of unlimited petroleum products :)
[07:47] <HazRPG> ah
[07:47] <HazRPG> lol
[07:48] <HazRPG> I love how everyone in the world forget it has a K in SA
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: you should watch the relevant Top Gear episode. It shows the "pain points" quite nicely (if you filter out the Top Gearness)
[07:49] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: hehe
[07:49] <MartijnVdS> a K?
[07:50] <HazRPG> Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> ah
[07:50] <MartijnVdS> Yeah the other SA has a R in front
[07:51] <HazRPG> South Africa?
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> yeah
[07:52] <HazRPG> Republic of?
[07:52] <MartijnVdS> exactement
[07:52] <HazRPG> exactamondo! (fav word :P)
[07:54] <MooDoo> hello
[07:54] <HazRPG> MooDoo: howdy
[07:54] <MooDoo> :)
[07:56] <knightwise> hey MooDoo
[07:56] <knightwise> hey MartijnVdS HazRPG
[07:56] <HazRPG> hey knightwise :)
[08:00] <HazRPG> I love this guy xD
[08:00] <HazRPG> (Rhod Gilbert)
[08:02] <ging> MartijnVdS: who is you voip provider?
[08:03] <MartijnVdS> ging: completel.fr
[08:03] <ging> they sound like they are in france
[08:04] <MartijnVdS> ging: their SOAP interface comes with French error messages
[08:04] <HazRPG> \o/
[08:23] <knightwise> you gotta love that !:)-
[08:29] <HazRPG> ooo I always wondered how other distros did that!
[08:29] <HazRPG> learned a new trick!
[08:29] <MartijnVdS> which one?
[08:30] <HazRPG> fortune | cowsay -n -f tux.cow
[08:30] <popey> :)
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: there are more files for cowsay :)
[08:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also try fortune -o for "offensive" material (to USians anyway)
[08:30] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I know, but tux.cow is my fav :)
[08:30] <popey> morning all and thanks for the birthday wishes :)
[08:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: Oh, it's your birthday? Congratifications!
[08:31] <HazRPG> morning :)
[08:31]  * MartijnVdS gets off popey's lawn, pre-emptively
[08:33] <HazRPG> :P
[08:33] <knightwise> Happy birthday popey. Aren't you considered a 'predator" hanging out with young kids like us ?
[08:34] <HazRPG> xD
[08:34] <HazRPG> all the old jokes, out in force I see xD
[08:34] <MartijnVdS> knightwise: !coc
[08:35] <popey> hahah
[08:38] <HazRPG> hmm, guessing APTonCD only grabs stuff that's cached that hasn't been removed
[08:38] <HazRPG> (noticing the lack of other stuff I've installed)
[08:41] <diplo> morning
[08:41] <dwatkins> moin moin
[08:41] <dwatkins> oh wait, this is the uk channel... ;)
[08:44] <DJones> Morning all
[08:51] <hoover> mornin all
[08:57] <HazRPG> I must say, I'm so glad ubuntu automatically cleans out its /tmp folder... :)
[08:58] <DJones> Has anybody got any recommendations on broadband dongles/networks, looking for pay as you go with a reasonable price/data limit
[09:00] <popey> DJones: yes, get a phone that does it, one less thing to carry
[09:00] <popey> and one less subscription to pay
[09:02] <DJones> popey: I've got that, but the limit is only 500Mb, was looking for something with higher limit, its only a short term thing while we're away next week
[09:02] <knightwise> DJones: what country ?
[09:03] <DJones> knightwise: uk
[09:04] <popey> DJones: orange?
[09:06] <DJones> Their coverage doesn't look to great over in skegness, just looking at the coverage maps
[09:06] <HazRPG> I wonder if there's a way to cluster some mumble servers together...
[09:07] <popey> DJones: no, i meant, is that who you currently use
[09:07] <DJones> No, vodafone
[09:07] <popey> DJones: what phone and network do you have that gives you 500M?
[09:07] <DJones> and Desire HD
[09:08] <popey> ok, have you enabled tethering and tested it?
[09:08]  * gpd_ just bought a Vodafone Sure Signal... :)
[09:08] <DJones> I know I can tether, but I'd rather keep that data plan just for the phone
[09:10] <popey> have you tried it?
[09:10] <DJones> 3 seem to have the best price, £30.99 for 3gb
[09:10] <popey> do you know that it comes from the 500MB allocation?
[09:10] <popey> On orange it doesn't
[09:11] <popey> e.g. I pay for 10GB/mo, which I use on the phone. if I tether the phone it goes via a different APN, and the limit on that is 500MB
[09:11] <DJones> Yes, I tried it on my when I got the phone, the bandwidth did get used up
[09:11] <DJones> 3 use the ZTE MF112 dongle
[09:12] <popey> why not just bump up the allocation on your phone?
[09:12] <DJones> Just looking at that now
[09:13] <gpd> popey: if that was to me, then yes, works very well.
[09:13] <popey> gpd: it wasn't :)
[09:13] <gpd> kfine /me sulks off
[09:13] <HazRPG> I wonder what time Subway opens... have a craving for a foot long tuna sub
[09:15] <gpd> anyone got Virgin 30Mb broadband or BT Infinity? considering switching from O2...
[09:17] <Tommeh> gpd: if you go the BT "Infinity" route, you can buy it from someone other than BT ;)
[09:17] <Tommeh> Like you would ADSL
[09:17] <Tommeh> It's not their exclusive.
[09:17] <gpd> apparently neither do static IP
[09:17] <Tommeh> Whereas Virgin is locked to Virgin and .. It's Virgin.
[09:17] <gpd> Tommeh: really? I thought Infinity was fibre and BT only at this point?
[09:17] <Tommeh> You've been suckered in by the marketing then ;)
[09:18] <gpd> how is it 50 Mb on a standard phoen line then?
[09:18] <Tommeh> VDSL2
[09:18] <Tommeh> The fibre is run to the cabinet on your street, a-la Virgin Media
[09:18] <Tommeh> And then it's 'Very high rate Digital Subscriber Line' over the copper pair.
[09:18] <gpd> ok - which is ADSL2+ on crack...
[09:19] <Tommeh> It's basically ADSL over shorter distances.
[09:19] <Tommeh> There's a bit more to it than that, but essentially.
[09:19] <gpd> but i'm not seeing any other providers offering speeds >24Mb
[09:19] <Tommeh> gpd: http://aaisp.net.uk will do FTTC connections (what BT refer to as Infinity)
[09:19] <Tommeh> gpd: have a look for 'FTTC' products.
[09:20] <directhex> trouble is, other FTTC providers are significantly more expensive, for capped bandwidth
[09:20] <gpd> nice - thanks :)
[09:20] <Tommeh> directhex: they're generally the smaller providers, so the focus is shifted a bit.
[09:20] <Tommeh> Quality over quantity, etc.
[09:20] <Tommeh> Saying that I was sure Zen could supply it, too.
[09:21] <Tommeh> gpd: most of the other 'bigger' ISPs have their own LLU networks (like O2/Be, TalkTalk/Opal, Tiscali & Co.) and don't yet have VDSL products.
[09:21] <directhex> yes. but their cheapest fttc package has a 50gb cao, for more money than BT
[09:21] <Tommeh> Quality.. Over quantity.
[09:21] <gpd> Zen is minimum £30/mo it seems + £75 activation
[09:22] <directhex> 50gb is nothing.
[09:22] <Tommeh> If you like BT then it's a good deal. But generally it's all smiles until you've got the product, then you can talk to India.
[09:22] <gpd> i was happy enough with O2 8Mb for £7.5 but now it is £18 I'm looking at options
[09:22] <dwatkins_> I tweeted to complain at BT and got replies from the UK. Their name is @btcare.
[09:23] <Tommeh> Also run by marketing droids. They've been on at me before now :)
[09:23] <directhex> marketing droids are useful
[09:23] <directhex> more useful than indian script-readers
[09:23] <Tommeh> It depends highly on the company, but I'd be tempted to agree.
[09:23] <kazade> Happy Birthday popey !
[09:23] <Tommeh> A lot of them are all talk and no action -- like Parallels ;)
[09:23] <Tommeh> But that's a tangent
[09:24] <Tommeh> I was just trying to point out to gpd that he didn't have to stick to Virgin/BT
[09:24] <Tommeh> Plenty of choices out there.
[09:24] <Neoti01> whats your thoughts on Virgin media 100Mb connection with there new modem ... ?
[09:25]  * Tommeh doesn't trust Virgin Media as an ISP
[09:25] <directhex> i don't have the choice of virgin. no cable around here.
[09:25] <gpd> samknows.com gives status of FTTC (ok) and LLU operators - but no list of FTTC operators. :(
[09:25] <Tommeh> So I'm afraid I can't comment on how well their DOCSIS3 implementation is scaling. :)
[09:25] <popey> thanks kazade
[09:26] <Neoti01> humm... i will have to do some testing on the new mobem and stuff then...
[09:26] <Neoti01> though i would have prefered a modem and to supply my own router... ARGH!!!
[09:28] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:40] <bigcalm> When talking about yourself, would you say ones or one's ?
[09:42] <Tommeh> I don't think you're meant to contract it like that
[09:42] <Tommeh> 'one is' 'one would' 'one has'
[09:42] <bigcalm> Ah, but I'm using it in the possesive sense
[09:42] <bigcalm> One's pet elephant
[09:43] <Tommeh> Heh, I'd look for a precedent :)
[09:43] <Tommeh> As I don't think that's considered correct
[09:43] <bigcalm> Did a google and people seem to say one's for posessive
[09:45] <bigcalm> I'll use it in a tweet and wait for the grammar nazis ;)
[09:50] <knightwise> I leuvs to bait grammarnazi's :)
[09:51]  * AlanBell waves to all the ops who have nazi on hilight o/
[09:52] <knightwise> hiGhlight AlanBell....  hiGHlight
[09:53] <AlanBell>  /hilight in irssi
[09:53] <knightwise> AlanBell: are you waving with an outstretched right arm ?
[09:53] <selinuxium_> o/
[09:53] <knightwise> o/
[09:53]  * selinuxium_ just waving hello...
[09:53] <selinuxium_> ;)
[09:54] <knightwise> somebody probably has a highlight on o/ too
[09:54] <MattJ> \o/
[09:54] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:54] <knightwise> MattJ: is that a surrender to the spelling nazi's ?
[09:55] <MattJ> Definitely not, I am one some days
[09:55] <selinuxium_> Nartzee?
[09:56] <MattJ> Yahtzee
[09:57] <knightwise> selinuxium_: very clever!
[09:58]  * knightwise checks if the hilight command words and types 'knightwise'
[09:58] <knightwise> apparently not
[10:00]  * popey waves back to AlanBell
[10:00]  * popey tickles GingerDog
[10:00] <knightwise> ok
[10:01]  * czajkowski hugs popey Happy Birthday!
[10:01] <popey> \o/ thanks
[10:02] <bigcalm> Happy birthday old man
[10:02] <czajkowski> Iam loving NHS hospitals, you go in and tell them the drugs you need and they just write it out for you
[10:02] <popey> :)
[10:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> many happy returns popey
[10:03] <Neoti01> humm ... i'll walk in and ask for weed .... see if they right it out ... lol
[10:09] <DJones> Neoti01: They'll just tell you to get a job as a gardener
[10:09] <selinuxium_> czajkowski, Back on the Methodone?
[10:09] <Neoti01> lol... good answer...
[10:09] <selinuxium_> :)
[10:10] <czajkowski> selinuxium_: valium, co-codmol diffine and something else
[10:14] <selinuxium_> czajkowski, One very chilled czajkowski... :)
[10:15] <czajkowski> pretty much I got sleep last night and only just woke up
[10:15] <czajkowski> having some toast and going back to sleep
[10:16] <oimon> please firefox can i have some resources back?   1673mb VIRT 1.1g  RES   75% cpu
[10:16] <Neoti01> NO!!
[10:17] <bigcalm> oimon: switch to chrome and use ff for dev work
[10:17] <bigcalm> That is if you are a dev
[10:19] <oimon> makes you wonder if the mozilla guys actually notice this problem themselves
[10:20] <HazRPG> Anyone know how to make my rss feeds show up more information then it currently does? I'm using wordpress.
[10:21] <HazRPG> It seems to only show snippets of what I've wrote.
[10:23] <HazRPG> ah nevermind I think I've found it :D
[10:27] <bigcalm> Tell it to use the whole post, not the teaser
[10:27] <bigcalm> But I guess you just found that
[10:27] <HazRPG> Yeah, just changed it in the "Settings->Reading" section
[10:27] <HazRPG> although the feed still shows only a snippet
[10:28] <bigcalm> shift + refresh
[10:28] <HazRPG> nope lol, even tried CTRL+R
[10:29] <HazRPG> have a look: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/feed/
[10:29] <HazRPG> ah crud wrong site
[10:29] <HazRPG> http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/feed/
[10:31] <s-fox> Hello.
[10:38] <knightwise> HazRPG: nice blog dude !
[10:38] <knightwise> just added it to my GR :)
[10:38] <HazRPG> knightwise: thanks :)
[10:38] <knightwise> so make sure those feeds are "full feeds :)'
[10:38]  * knightwise likes cowsay
[10:39] <HazRPG> heh trying my best to make them full feeds :)
[10:42] <popey> HazRPG: settings -> reading -> "For each article in a feed, show" - "Full feed" (radio button)
[10:42] <popey> s/full feed/full text/
[10:43] <HazRPG> popey: I did that :(
[10:43] <knightwise> Fortune + twidge = Random twitter generator !
[10:43] <HazRPG> still no joy
[10:43] <popey> are you doing any kind of caching?
[10:43] <HazRPG> knightwise: hehe nice :)
[10:43] <knightwise> fortune + twidge + cron = Virtual twitter persona !
[10:43] <HazRPG> popey: not unless cache is set by default on wordpress
[10:44] <popey> your rss feed wasn't updated since 09:19
[10:44] <popey> edit the post and republish it
[10:47] <HazRPG> popey: done
[10:48] <Tommeh> (gtk-update-icon-cache:6577): GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Cannot open pixbuf loader module file '/usr/lib/gdk-pixbuf-2.0/2.10.0/loaders.cache': No such file or directory
[10:48] <HazRPG> says 9:45:13 now
[10:48] <HazRPG> bare in mind that's GMT
[10:49] <Tommeh> ^ That is doing my head in. Every time something tries updating a package on upgrade to natty with relation to that, it locks the whole machine up.
[10:50] <knightwise> hmm , anyone know how to get a DF command to output a single line , and not 2 LINES ?
[10:50] <knightwise> i do df -h /dev/sda6 , but then you get 2 lines
[10:50] <knightwise> and i would like to push the output into twidge
[10:50] <hoover> sorry no idea knightwise, I always use elaborate greps for that ;-)
[10:51] <popey> alan@bishop:~$ df -h / | tail -n 1
[10:51] <popey> /dev/xvda1             30G   28G  845M  98% /
[10:51] <hoover> or try the -P option
[10:51] <knightwise> but of COURSE :)
[10:51] <knightwise> Good old Tail !
[10:59] <dwatkins_> tail and head can even get you the middle of the output, but grep might be better in some situations.
[10:59] <HazRPG> ahh, seems the problem is with the type of rss feed
[10:59] <HazRPG> using /atom/ instead of /feed/ seems to be fine
[11:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:00] <davmor2> popey: Happy Birthday dude
[11:00] <popey> thanks davmor2
[11:00] <willy1977> morning - yep +1 to that have a good day popey...
[11:01] <dwatkins_> have a great day, popey :)
[11:02] <HazRPG> knightwise: quick heads up, update your rss feed to use http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/atom/ instead of http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/feed/
[11:03] <popey> we kinda had my b'd yesterday so kids could see me unwrap my pressies
[11:03] <knightwise> Done !
[11:03] <knightwise> looks ok now
[11:03] <popey> although most of the pressies were actually better for them than me
[11:03] <knightwise> HazRPG: if you ever want to do a guest blogging item on knightwise.com , let me know !
[11:03] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mr-Men-Little-Miss-Paladone/dp/B003ZYE2OI/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IPTJKL0WFHGDG&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
[11:03] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Lets-Make-Dolphin-Sandwich/dp/B001HZIKFE/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I16RDOMGKSVFQV&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
[11:04] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kitchen-Lets-Make-Dinosaur-Sandwich/dp/B001HZNK54/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I300HUBJ6XYL46&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
[11:04] <popey> although I do like the idea of dinosaur sarnies :)
[11:04] <dwatkins> popey: we have a cut-out sandwich thing in the shape of two dinosaurs :)
[11:04] <popey> thats ^^ that
[11:04] <popey> :)
[11:05] <popey> wifey seemed less inclined to buy this for me http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inspired-Gifts-Condiment-Gun/dp/B001FRNNNS/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2SLJT6F1GR1CX&colid=29FWHGD2GAECA
[11:05] <dwatkins> oh cool, the one I'm thinking of is called 'DynoBytes" on amazon
[11:05] <dwatkins> http://www.amazon.com/Evriholder-EVCRSTD-DynoBytes-Sandwich-Cutter/dp/B00167X2Y2
[11:05] <dwatkins> ah yes, same thing
[11:05] <popey> :)
[11:05] <dwatkins> perfect for people who don't like their crusts...
[11:06]  * bigcalm hugs Invisible Hand
[11:06] <oimon> how can i find out the price of an album on itunes website if i don't have itunes software?
[11:06] <bigcalm> oimon: ask somebody else to look it up for you?
[11:07]  * popey opens itunes
[11:07] <dwatkins> I can see the prices on their website, oimon
[11:07] <HazRPG> knightwise: cool, thanks :). Ditto, if ya ever fancy posting some ubuntu/linux/open-source based stuff feel free :)
[11:08] <HazRPG> knightwise: let me know if you make an account, and I'll get it updated
[11:08] <popey> oimon: name the song :)
[11:08] <oimon> dwatkins: oh yes! that didn't used to be available :S can i buy without the software too?#
[11:08] <popey> no
[11:08] <popey> well, yes
[11:08] <dwatkins> oimon: that's another question entirely, no idea ;)
[11:08] <popey> if you have an iphone or ipad
[11:09] <popey> (or ipod touch)
[11:09] <oimon> none of those...i'm thinking it's just better to sell this voucher i have
[11:10] <oimon> i have a windows partition somewhere
[11:10] <oimon> what a palaver to buy an album
[11:10] <gord> oh, merry birthday popey
[11:11] <popey> ta
[11:11] <gord> czajkowski, should have cake for you
[11:11] <popey> oimon: you have an itunes voucher?
[11:11] <czajkowski> gord: you're giving me cake
[11:11] <oimon> yes popey
[11:12] <popey> flog it on ebay?
[11:12] <oimon> or give it as a present :P
[11:12] <gord> ha, like its possible to give someone cake instead of just eating it yourself
[11:12] <oimon> ebay would prob fetch £12 for a £15 voucher
[11:12] <gord> sell it on a non eu ebay
[11:13] <oimon> gord why's that?
[11:13] <davmor2> czajkowski: you mean to say you don't love popey enough to make him a cake on his birthday......You're just pure evil woman! ;)
[11:13] <gord> iirc if you get US voutchers you can buy things from the US store, stuff you can't get here. i assume it works the other way around too
[11:13] <gord> so you can sell for more than its worth
[11:13] <oimon> there seems to be millions of people selling itunes vouchers on the ebay
[11:13] <directhex> she didn't make me hexmas cake either!
[11:14] <popey> hmmm
[11:14] <popey> popemass
[11:14] <popey> sounds wrong
[11:14] <popey> popemas
[11:14] <gord> popeyween
[11:14] <popey> hehe
[11:15] <popey> popeyval
[11:15] <willy1977> is there an easy way to tell what drive is mounted to f.e. /media/abcd ?
[11:15] <gord> can't wait for the popey bunny to leave me eggs!
[11:15] <popey> willy1977: mount
[11:15] <willy1977> ta
[11:15] <willy1977> my brain was in kernel panic
[11:17] <directhex> i think gord has this one right
[11:17] <davmor2> popey: popeyval sounds like a FB game
[11:17] <popey> considering I hate forums, getting 4 emails from various ones saying "Happy birthday from ___ forums" is mildly amusing
[11:18] <oimon> only popey gets wished happy birthday by the internet
[11:19] <davmor2> popey: how about just popeyday (Said in the say flow as Saturday)
[11:21]  * davmor2 has this song stuck in his head this morning http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP7aNuqp_YU&feature=related
[11:22] <oimon> i a while ago i kept waking up at 4am with this benny lava song going round my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdyC1BrQd6g
[11:23] <willy1977> or popeysgiving ?
[11:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Hassan Williamson] Prettifying your terminal a bit& - http://www.hazsoft.co.uk/2011/04/04/prettifying-your-terminal-a-bit/
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> petrifying your terminal ;)
[11:27] <willy1977> putrifying your terminal ?
[11:27] <MartijnVdS> willy1977: well.. if you're terminal, putrifying is the next step
[11:27] <willy1977> :p
[11:28] <willy1977> time for another brew...
[11:29] <gordonjcp> davmor2: heh
[11:29]  * gordonjcp has had this stuck in his head -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=998P6HEzCdI
[11:35] <oimon> does there exist a document that explains the various features that the finished unity will have?
[11:37] <HazRPG> heh, I wonder how one would petrify their terminal xD
[11:37] <HazRPG> would have to be a pretty scary command
[11:38] <willy1977> humm.... rm -rf ~/ maybe?
[11:38] <willy1977> actually the terminal would be fine with that wouldn't it ;)
[11:39] <daftykins> usually best to carry disclaimers on such commands for the new users that may be present ;)
[11:39] <willy1977> oh yeah fair point DON'T run that...
[11:39] <davmor2> gordonjcp: could be worse,  could have "Tank, fly, boss, walk, jam nitty gritty, your listening to the boy from the big bad city, this is jam hot, this jam hot"
[11:39] <daftykins> e.g. not: "get a free virtual puppy! <insert forkbomb here>"
[11:39] <daftykins> :D
[11:41] <popey> oimon: doesn't documentation usually come after development in open source? :)
[11:42] <oimon> popey: docu yes, but requirements and specification and design comes before coding :P
[11:43] <oimon> if i saw the proposed features i might be a little less discouraged by the current state of affairs
[11:43] <gordonjcp> davmor2: funny, I dug that out at the weekend
[11:43] <gordonjcp> davmor2: mostly to demonstrate how the bassline was nicked from Guns of Brixton ;-)
[11:45] <gordonjcp> davmor2: and also, "Good Life" uses factory Ensoniq Mirage samples for the lead line and the chord stab is nicked from Nitro Deluxe "Let's Get Brutal"
[11:46] <Tommeh> Is there a reason why the workspace switcher in unity isn't moveable?
[11:46] <Tommeh> Unlike all the other applications on the launcher
[11:46] <Tommeh> I'd like it somewhere more accessible, but apparently I'm not aloud to move it.
[11:46] <davmor2> gordonjcp: I haven't heard a dance track for a while that didn't nick music from other artists somewhere along the line.   Vanilla Ice ice ice baby is under pressure by queen, Men in black is from a George michael track but he got it from a song call forget me knots from the late 70's iirc etc etc etc
[11:50] <Compacthack> Morning all
[11:51] <davmor2> Compacthack: morning
[11:52] <davmor2> Tommeh: it's the separator for lens and applications as I understand it
[11:53] <gordonjcp> davmor2: most decent dance music would maybe sample a couple of short hits, and one of the "well-known" drum loops
[11:53] <gordonjcp> I don't like the current thing of basically taking the instrumental of a whole song and singing the wrong words over it
[11:53] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://nkhstudio.com/pages/amen_mp4.html :)
[11:55] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: nice
[11:55] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/break2.ogg
[11:55] <gordonjcp> ^ hand-drawn Amen break
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: hand-drawn? in what?
[11:56] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: Gimp, then converted to an audio file with ARSS
[11:57] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: arduinosample.ogg and glitchamen.ogg also feature mangled Amen breaks
[11:58] <gordonjcp> http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/mp3s/goodlife.ogg <- demonstrating how you can make your own copies dance classics from things you have at home
[12:00] <daftykins> permit me to be pedantic over the storing of ogg files in an "mp3s" virtual directory
[12:00] <daftykins> :D
[12:00] <gordonjcp> yes
[12:01] <gordonjcp> I did that specifically to a) piss off pedants, and b) snare copyright troll bots into looking for nonexistent copyright violations
[12:01] <daftykins> :D
[12:01] <daftykins> i spotted it, but i'm not too fussed :>
[12:02] <gordonjcp> I used to also have a directory avi/ with things like saw.mp4 and layercake.avi in it
[12:02] <daftykins> aww if only your second example was matroska
[12:02] <daftykins> :>
[12:02] <gordonjcp> the first being a video of me cutting some bits of 2x1" wood with... a saw
[12:02] <daftykins> lmao
[12:03] <gordonjcp> and the second being me using the two pieces of wood to guide my bread knife as I cut a sponge cake absolutely dead level through the middle
[12:03] <gordonjcp> in order to make... a layer cake
[12:03] <directhex> my tv plays mkv o_o
[12:03] <directhex> as long as i mangle the mime type mediatomb emits to say it's mpeg2
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> wut
[12:04] <daftykins> anyone remember that 9600x9600 resolution image of the world trade center site as it was covered in debris?
[12:04] <daftykins> i've ordered a 30x40" print of it from a local company :o
[12:05] <daftykins> could be fun to stare at on the wall somewhere
[12:05] <directhex> my tv will not play a mkv file exported as video/x-matroska, but it will play the same file exported as video/mpeg
[12:05] <daftykins> haha
[12:05] <directhex> in both cases, with mp4/dts or mp4/ac3 content
[12:05] <daftykins> how'd you discover that?
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: the wall of your underground terrorist training facility?
[12:06] <directhex> daftykins, reading people ranting and raving on the tubes
[12:06] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: the very same
[12:06] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: wait, you have to be a conscript to know of it D:
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: remember the first rule of terrorist training club
[12:07] <daftykins> enlist the IRC'ers? ah yes
[12:07]  * Tommeh wants his workspace switcher back :(
[12:07] <daftykins> but it's always there!
[12:07] <daftykins> ctrl+alt+cursors
[12:07] <daftykins> :>
[12:07] <Tommeh> yeah, that's as buggy as hell.
[12:07] <daftykins> how come?
[12:07] <Tommeh> compiz dies, the lot
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> compiz--
[12:08] <daftykins> nasty, what are you running?
[12:08] <Tommeh> Natty?
[12:08] <Tommeh> *Just* upgraded.
[12:08] <daftykins> that explains it
[12:08] <daftykins> oh an upgrade too?
[12:08] <daftykins> ooh-err
[12:08] <Tommeh> 'the end is night'
[12:08] <Tommeh> -t
[12:08] <Tommeh> It's pretty silly how you can move *anything* on the menu, but not the workspace switcher.
[12:08] <Tommeh> If it was near the top, I'd be happy
[12:09] <Tommeh> But I have to scroll through everything to get to it.
[12:09] <gordonjcp> I want the taskbar back
[12:10] <gordonjcp> and I want alt-f2 to work properly
[12:11] <gordonjcp> instead of typing the thing I want to run, then having to wait for five seconds while it catches up
[12:11] <daftykins> hahaha
[12:13] <daftykins> well, i should head in and prepare today's class
[12:14] <daftykins> today is the excitement of throwing several netgear and thomson routers at them and telling them to lear how to lock down the wireless...
[12:14] <daftykins> learn too.
[12:14] <DJones> daftykins: Would the person who doesn't plug it win?
[12:15] <daftykins> actually that was part of my earlier teachings :D
[12:15] <Tommeh> Awesome
[12:15] <daftykins> i covered all of the security settings, then asked them all what the best was
[12:15] <daftykins> the one i hadn't covered
[12:15] <Tommeh> Login screen settings -- select Ubuntu Classic, back to non-Unity
[12:15] <daftykins> and one of the bright students said "turn it off"
[12:16] <oimon> Tommeh: until ubuntu 11.10 :(
[12:16] <daftykins> and i demonstrated it then and there... took an access point, pulled out the mains and put it on the desk ;)
[12:16] <daftykins> best wireless security you don't even have to buy
[12:16] <DJones> :)
[12:16] <oimon> daftykins: how old are the kids you're teaching
[12:17] <DJones> And what level are they studying at
[12:17] <daftykins> oimon: 16+
[12:17] <daftykins> it's an A-level standard of course, at a further education college
[12:18] <Tommeh> oimon: by that time they will have hopefully made Unity a bit less faffy.
[12:18] <daftykins> so it's basically an alternative to doing generic A levels
[12:18] <oimon> haven't met any teenagers who are interested in computers anymore..they use technlogy and nitendo DS etc and the internet, but aren't actually interested in the good stuff
[12:18] <daftykins> oimon: oh indeed, most of them just go on browsers and waste the day away i'd imagine
[12:18] <directhex> oimon, we need a new BBC Model B.
[12:18] <daftykins> but when i helped teach a couple of classes last year, i was horrified to discover nobody had configured a wireless network in the second year group
[12:18] <directhex> oimon, the spectrum era created a generation of bedroom hackers. that's something we've lost
[12:19] <daftykins> so i've worked it into a class i'm taking on "networked systems security"
[12:19] <daftykins> which is a lot more basic than it sounds, but is nonetheless fun enough to get them thinking
[12:19] <oimon> my nephew reminds me of myself at 13 in many ways, particularly good at maths etc, but is completely disinterested in computers, however i was programming BASIC and allsorts by that age
[12:19] <oimon> his ICT class fails to excite pupils
[12:20] <daftykins> i'm also pushing them into playing with Linux at home and got the College i'm at signed up to a vmware education program so they can play with different OSs at home
[12:20] <oimon> acorn vs spectrum vs commodore battles used to amuse me
[12:20] <daftykins> admittedly they could just run virtualbox or so, but it's good practice
[12:20] <Neoti01> SPECTRUM!!!!
[12:20] <oimon> daftykins: purchase 2gb usb sticks for < fiver each, play with live cd?
[12:20] <Neoti01> i love SPECTRUMS!!!!!
[12:20] <Neoti01> 16k of ram ... YEY... bring that back ... he he
[12:21] <daftykins> oimon: we have tonnes of donated HP pentium4 client PCs on a training network, i've written CDs of ubuntu to have them play with and did that a week or two ago
[12:21] <daftykins> it's all good
[12:21] <daftykins> but yeah, i've asked about sourcing cheap bootable flash drives
[12:21] <daftykins> right i've gotta run
[12:21] <daftykins> ttfn all o/
[12:22] <daftykins> IT have had another server die so this week may be interesting :P
[12:22] <gordonjcp> Neoti01: Jupiter Ace!
[12:22] <DJones> gordonjcp: Thats a real blast from the past
[12:23] <gordonjcp> DJones: I have one but the vacuum-formed plastic case crumbled
[12:23]  * davmor2 now has Tainted love stuck in his head thanks to absolute 80's
[12:23] <gordonjcp> DJones: there's no custom parts inside, I bet you could build one from scratch trivially easily
[12:24] <gordonjcp> davmor2: do a megamix of the Gloria Jones version, the Soft Cell version, and the Marilyn Manson version!
[12:24] <DJones> gordonjcp: I would have thought so, you mentioning that made think about the Oric 1 as well
[12:24] <davmor2> gordonjcp: Err no!
[12:24] <hoover> Dragon64 for the win! ;-)
[12:24] <directhex> 64? rich man
[12:25] <directhex> oimon, ict is not exciting, ict is secretary training.
[12:25] <oimon> :(
[12:25] <gordonjcp> DJones: hm, I'm sure I've got an Oric 1 somewhere too
[12:25] <oimon> you are right there directhex
[12:25] <directhex> and when i did ict, i was told off for being functional, and not using clip-art and word art
[12:25] <hoover> directhex: nah, we started on a ZX81
[12:25] <hoover> like most
[12:25] <gordonjcp> with the LM380 amp driving a big speaker so loud it could actually crash the machine
[12:26] <hoover> we bought the dragons used from a local training centre
[12:26] <gordonjcp> http://www.jupiter-ace.co.uk/ace_schematic.html
[12:26] <gordonjcp> well there you go
[12:26] <oimon> meanwhile i see 14yr olds from other countries joining ubuntu bug squashing teams ..what a disparity
[12:27] <daubers> I failed my ICT classes \o/
[12:27] <directhex> i didn't take ict at gcse
[12:27] <HazRPG> daubers: :o
[12:27] <directhex> comsci a-level though
[12:27] <oimon> comp sci degree level \o/
[12:27] <daubers> apparently building a CMS did not fulfil the "Make a website with at least 4 pages" thingy
[12:27] <HazRPG> :/
[12:28] <HazRPG> did you build the CMS yourself? Or did you just use an existing one?
[12:28] <daubers> Also, I was not supposed to include a 2 page essay on why you shouldn't use excel as a database when they told you to do just that
[12:28] <daubers> HazRPG: I built it in PHP
[12:28] <oimon> lol
[12:29] <HazRPG> daubers: hmm, that's totally unfair then... I passed my ICT by doing my own CMS
[12:29] <oimon> mind you, learning to do what "they" tell you regardless of whether you think it is dumb and won't work, is an important lesson to learn in life
[12:29] <daubers> HazRPG: The marking wasn't done by our school :) It was a NVQ thing run from CD by some other school that ours paid to use
[12:29] <daubers> HazRPG: Also, our IT teachers generally asked us how to do some things... which was a bit backwards really
[12:30] <HazRPG> heh
[12:30] <oimon> what a wasted opportunity
[12:30] <HazRPG> daubers: when I did my ICT it was run by City & Guilds
[12:31] <HazRPG> not sure if City & Guilds do any exams anymore now... seems to all be NVQ now :S
[12:31] <daubers> HazRPG: wish ours was. One of the exam questions was Why are business cards x" by y"
[12:31] <oimon> i did comp studies GCSE 20 years ago.. the curriculum was obsolete since it taught about punch card readers etc
[12:31] <HazRPG> :P
[12:31] <daubers> oimon: That's still useful stuff to know if you're being tought FORTRAN :)
[12:33] <gordonjcp> it would probably be useful to teach Comp Sci students that sort of stuff
[12:33] <gordonjcp> rather than filling their heads with Java and Haskell nonsense straight off
[12:39] <shauno> new laptop \o/
[12:40] <HazRPG> shauno: huzzah!
[12:40] <DJones> shauno: Same here
[12:40] <shauno> gonna be strange having a working dvdrw again.  I may need to go out & buy some blanks
[12:40] <oimon> reading the list of microsoft "patents" they are going after android vendors with: Permit users to easily select text in a document and adjust that selection; Enable display of a webpage’s content before the background image is received..
[12:41] <directhex> patents are bollocks.
[12:41] <oimon> of course
[12:41] <oimon> well those ones are
[12:42] <DJones> shauno: What did you get
[12:42] <shauno> a mac.  I swing that way.
[12:43] <shauno> (15" mbp because I learnt my lesson regarding the integrated gpus)
[12:43] <HazRPG> shauno: what adventures did it eventually go on before it got to you dude?
[12:43] <davmor2> oi czajkowski you deaf out,  smile :)
[12:43] <DJones> Heh, I went from a 10 year old laptop with 512Mb, to a Hewlett Packard i3 with 4Gb & a 17" screen, I can't get used to the speed
[12:44] <shauno> it got pretty sane once it got to poland.  Nothing resembling it's european tour :)
[12:44] <shauno> er, asian tour rather
[12:44] <shauno> 2.2GHz i7 /w 4Gb ram.  aftermarket ram & ssd are first on my hitlist, but waiting until next payday
[12:44] <HazRPG> shauno: aww, was looking forward to seeing it end up in iceland before it got back to ya :P
[12:45] <davmor2> DJones: you could always limit the memory with a boot parameter if that helps you out :D
[12:45] <HazRPG> right
[12:45] <HazRPG> subway time
[12:45] <HazRPG> HUNGRY!
[12:45] <andylock1an> hey guys, know how to print env variables like %JAVA_HOME% on windows?
[12:45] <HazRPG> bbl :)
[12:46] <oimon> set ?
[12:46] <oimon> echo?
[12:46] <HazRPG> andylock1an: erm... batch file maybe? with an echo
[12:46] <DJones> davmor2: nah, I'd rather play bubbleshooter at warp 10
[12:47] <davmor2> DJones: Hahaha!
[12:48] <davmor2> DJones: you know what you really want to play is Supertux 2
[12:49] <davmor2> DJones: you could buy a copy of uplink and get really addicted to pretend hacking :D
[12:49] <DJones> davmor2: I tried playing sauerbrauten on saturday, all I will say is that I died within seconds
[12:49] <knightwise> Friend who has mac : 'YEEEy , I just found the effects in Photo booth"
[12:50] <knightwise> my reply : " Those are not the effects"
[12:51] <DJones> Next job is to install ubuntu on my wifes new laptop as well, tried a live usb last night & worked OTB, so really pleased with both HP & Asus
[12:55]  * oimon forgot mother's day yesterday. or should i say my one-year-old forgot to buy his mummy a gift
[12:57] <davmor2> oimon: No you forgot shame on you,  you should be instantly taken off and skinned alive ;)
[12:58] <oimon> davmor2: i remembered my own mum, but somehow forgot that my wife is a recent mum :(
[12:58] <oimon> the only cards left are really expensive ones
[12:58] <oimon> AKA fail tax
[12:59] <davmor2> oimon: Write it on you calendar to remind you for next year
[13:00] <directhex> know what i have on my calendar?
[13:00] <directhex> "buy a snow shovel" is in there, in july
[13:00] <MartijnVdS> directhex: ponies and kittens?
[13:04] <popey> :)
[13:05] <popey> i was discussing that with wifey this weekend
[13:05] <oimon> one of the best advances in avoiding double bookings was when i purcahsed android phones for me + mrs and shared each other's calendars..simple solution to a common marital problem
[13:05] <popey> yup, we have shared calendars too
[13:05] <popey> this was a major selling point for wifey to have a new phone
[13:05] <directhex> we do the same
[13:05] <oimon> and shared bank account
[13:05] <directhex> doesn't need to be android, either. all phone oses do google calendar
[13:06] <directhex> except maybe wp7
[13:06] <oimon> directhex: we couldn't afford 2 x iphone contracts if we wanted them :P
[13:06] <popey> i dont have an iphone contract :p
[13:06] <popey> (but I do have an iphone)
[13:06] <davmor2> directhex: but wp7 has the bestest web browser in the universe though right?
[13:07] <davmor2> bestest means worse right?
[13:08] <directhex> davmor2, here's my score for wp7: minus one billion out of 10. it's just as good as iphone!
[13:09] <davmor2> directhex: -1 billion man you're slacking you know there are trillions and quadrillions out there right :D
[13:12] <bigcalm> Sorting out some receipts. ASDA: G/GANG - any body know what that might be?
[13:13] <willy1977> bigcalm: green gang
[13:14] <willy1977> bigcalm: just had it confirmed from commander in chief that it's actually garden gang
[13:14] <willy1977> the kids healthy eating range
[13:14] <willy1977> fruit, veg, raisins, etc.
[13:14] <bigcalm> Aha
[13:15] <bigcalm> Thank you :)
[13:15] <bigcalm> Now to ponder what it could be at £1.12
[13:16] <bigcalm> Clementines!
[13:17] <Pendulum> yum
[13:18]  * DJones eats a yum from Greggs bakery
[13:18] <DJones> s/yum/yum yum
[13:18] <directhex> http://greggsadventure.com/
[13:20] <directhex> i'm now on the "special k diet" - apparently i can drop 2 dress sizes!
[13:20]  * bigcalm giggles
[13:20] <popey> haha
[13:21]  * DJones wonders what dress size directhex currenty is
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> 3XL
[13:22] <directhex> DJones, hang on, let me go see which ones fit!
[13:22] <directhex> ¬_¬
[13:22] <DJones> directhex: No need to post photos when you find out
[13:23] <directhex> DJones, but then how will i know if my bum looks big in it?
[13:23] <DJones> Use a mirror
[13:24] <directhex> but clearly i need a second opinion. hang on, let me get a close-up shot, in 3d
[13:24] <DJones> :)
[13:25] <popey> :O
[13:25] <directhex> :O
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> :O'''
[13:25] <directhex> ok, sorry. 3d video.
[13:26]  * popey puts on his xray specs
[13:26] <DJones> I thought that was already on youtube
[13:26] <popey> s/xray/3d/
[13:26] <directhex> salad for dinner tonight, too. oh my
[13:26] <dwatkins> I had pasta salad for lunch.
[13:26] <popey> I have steak for tea
[13:27] <directhex> dwatkins, carbs are the enemy! or something...
[13:27] <popey> I will cook them better than the italian restaurant on saturday
[13:27] <gord> no, crabs are the enemy. crabs
[13:27] <directhex> i wuv pasta
[13:27] <dwatkins> directhex: not my enemy
[13:27]  * popey wubs crabs
[13:27] <gord> they are plotting against you. with their pincers
[13:27] <directhex> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/crabs/
[13:27]  * popey notes that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StuartLangridge contains no testimonials.......
[13:27] <popey> *hint*
[13:28] <directhex> why does sil need testimonials?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> because nobody know who he is
[13:28] <popey> because I suspect he may attend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[13:32] <DJones> is seveas still on the membership board
[13:34] <popey> no
[13:37] <HazRPG> directhex: most people I know find that song annoying :P
[13:38] <HazRPG> directhex: I prefer the remixed video version, it's the same song... but the video has the guy running around in a market annoying people
[13:39] <HazRPG> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Crabs+Remix/
[13:44] <HazRPG> time for the monthly filesystem sort out \o/
[13:44] <shauno> why do I always chose 'secret questions' that I'll never remember the answer to :/
[13:44] <dwatkins> because you like a challenge?
[13:44] <HazRPG> shauno: heh, I always pick random "secret questions" but always choose the same answer
[13:45] <HazRPG> which is mother's maiden name... but to throw people off, I put her full name in, which isn't short
[13:45] <shauno> I dislike the entire concept.  don't like talking to the bank because I'm not entirely sure what my mother's maiden name is
[13:45]  * dwatkins is reminded of an Italian friend with a very long name
[13:45] <HazRPG> I hate it when sites have a character limit on the answer though, really frustrates me :/
[13:47] <shauno> I end up using either of two variations of the same name.  I'm never sure which is correct, or which the bank thinks is correct
[13:47] <HazRPG> so when I go on some sites and try to recover, I find it's chopped off like a big chunk off the end :/
[13:47] <HazRPG> shauno: heh yeah I know what you mean
[13:48] <shauno> oh well.  managed to fanangle my way back into my own account :/
[13:49] <HazRPG> *cringes*
[13:49] <shauno> tried the 'forgot my password' link, they asked me who my childhood hero was.  So I went back and sat with my little list card trying to remember what I'd done
[13:49] <dwatkins> I use the name of my first pet.
[13:49] <HazRPG> just seen an advert for BE internet (my ISP)... and well it shows a netgear router on the bottom... and then slams it out of the way for their rebranded Thompson one :/
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> Thompson--
[13:50] <HazRPG> I'm pretty sure Thompson is worse than Netgear
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: but thompson allow rebranding
[13:50] <MartijnVdS> netgear don't, usually
[13:50] <dwatkins> BT_Home_Hub2--
[13:51] <dwatkins> We're on our third from BT and it still needs resetting every couple days.
[13:51] <HazRPG> BT_Home_Hub2--
[13:51] <HazRPG> Thompson--
[13:51] <HazRPG> Actiontec--
[13:51] <shauno> I think my dvr is a thompson.  still haven't figured out how to pull programs off it without a screwdriver
[13:51] <HazRPG> I have an Actiontec from my old ISP :/
[13:52] <dwatkins> I'm tempted to buy my own ADSL router, but I would prefer BT provide a working one - it can't be that hard, it only has to dial-up and provide DHCP
[13:52] <willy1977> apparently... I'm running a EchoLife HG521 from talktalk :/
[13:52] <oimon> willy1977: i have one of those
[13:53] <DJones> My Dad has just changed over to BT & got a homehub 2, at least its idiot proof ... in that he managed to set it up himself
[13:53] <oimon> or maybe the hg520 ..the "picture frame" one
[13:53] <oimon> wondering what i can get out of talktalk if i renew my contract with them
[13:53] <dwatkins> DJones: yeah, just wish it didn't fall over so much
[13:53] <willy1977> oimon: ahhh mines a little cream box
[13:53] <HazRPG> dwatkins: this is the reason why I'm tempted to get an ADSL2+ PCI card for my server and configure that instead... that way I have a choice over what OS and config I want
[13:53] <willy1977> and in my current experience the wife keeps complaining about it dropping the wireless... wired it seems bearable...
[13:54] <DJones> dwatkins: His has been very stable, he's not had to reset it in the month since it arrived
[13:54] <dwatkins> HazRPG: yeah, I have considered doing something similar.
[13:54] <dwatkins> DJones: I do wonder if there's something about my home that's causing the issue, but the box has no logs that seem to say what's happening
[13:55] <dwatkins> all BT have suggestesd is trying to disable wifi devices and re-enable them one at a time, but that's a bit cheeky, tbh
[13:55] <dwatkins> I suspect the DHCP server is falling over software-wise, but can't prove it
[13:56] <oimon> willy1977: mine is the hg520b ..i can't see hg521 on their list http://broadband.talktalk.co.uk/help/broadband/supporteddevices
[13:56] <dwatkins> yeah, it's our wifi that drops, I think cabled devices are ok
[13:57] <popey> directhex: unity3d is the 3d framework that's based on mono isnt it?
[13:57] <directhex> popey, yes
[13:57] <popey> ooo, just played a game written in it
[13:58] <willy1977> oimon: oh... its http://help.talktalk.co.uk/app/answers/detail/a_id/1649/kw/router/r_id/113152 but it gets reported as echolife (unless huawei is the company echolife the range I guess)
[13:59] <directhex> popey, on iphone?
[14:00] <dwatkins> I like the name 'Monkey' - http://www.monkeycoder.co.nz/
[14:00] <dwatkins> I think it translates your code into various other languages, but I'd be concerned it would do lots of them only mildly well, not brilliantly
[14:01] <popey> yes directhex
[14:01] <HazRPG> dwatkins: \o/
[14:01] <oimon> anyone ever have success with haggling down prices with their ISP? would like to pay less with talktalk...i know virgin will let you haggle
[14:01] <HazRPG> "monkey, for the code monkeys around the world!"
[14:01] <popey> oimon: how long have you been with them?
[14:01] <oimon> 3 yrs
[14:01] <popey> tell them you're thinking of leaving?
[14:01] <oimon> but i took on the contract from the previous homeowner too
[14:01] <popey> directhex: http://www.freeappaday.com/napp.php?id=1024
[14:02] <dwatkins> I complained to Virgin and got 20 quid a month off
[14:02] <oimon> popey: works with virgin, i wonder if talktalk just kick you in the nuts and let you go away
[14:02] <popey> depends how you word it
[14:02] <popey> "I am thinking of"
[14:02] <popey> not "I wish to"
[14:03] <popey> my ex-boss said "I wish to", and virgin said "okay" and promptly disconnected him :)
[14:03] <directhex> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Hn1XhyWB0 is unity3d
[14:03] <oimon> wish i didn't need a phone line at all :(
[14:03] <popey> can you not get virgin?
[14:03] <diplo> for BB  ?
[14:03] <dwatkins> I asked Virgin to disconnect me and they didn't - continued to charge me also
[14:04] <diplo> oimon, I'm sure I've seen a way around needing to pay for land line now if it's just for DSL
[14:04] <oimon> dwatkins: similar problem. virgin still owe me money - i will not be a customer of theirs
[14:05] <oimon> but i don't have to tell talktalk that
[14:05] <HazRPG> dwatkins: I don't like how money says "Windows Requirements" and "Mac Requirements" but no "Linux Requirement"... yet linux is one of the targets it can be compiled  for
[14:06] <dwatkins> HazRPG: hmm :-/
[14:06] <HazRPG> dwatkins: have a look in the store section, it also cost $120 too
[14:07] <HazRPG> however that is still considerably cheaper than getting VS
[14:07] <dwatkins> indeed, HazRPG - and comparible to an Apple developer license
[14:07] <HazRPG> agreed
[14:08] <oimon> i'd like an ISP that gave low data download capacity and charged peanuts..
[14:08] <HazRPG> still shocking that there's no linux binary (at the very least) for it though
[14:08] <directhex> oimon, they can't make money doing that
[14:08] <directhex> HazRPG, linux binaries are hard.
[14:09] <dwatkins> bethere apparently have good rates and good rates
[14:09] <HazRPG> dwatkins: that's who I'm with!
[14:09] <HazRPG> directhex: how so?
[14:10] <HazRPG> directhex: I've seen things packaged as a .sh file, and some as a .bin file before...
[14:10] <dwatkins> HazRPG: oh ok
[14:11] <directhex> HazRPG, at any point you need to link against libraries, you need to worry about the version of those libraries.
[14:11] <HazRPG> dwatkins: their supplied router is a thompson, which is pants :/
[14:11] <directhex> HazRPG, e.g. stuff that won't run anymore because there's no more libstdc++.so.5
[14:11] <Laney> bundle it all!
[14:12] <directhex> yeah, bundling the world is an option
[14:12] <Laney> (cf http://bl-log.blogspot.com/2011/03/banshee-bundle-on-linux-one-file-to-run.html)
[14:12] <HazRPG> dwatkins: my friend has his settings reset almost monthly, which has pretty much forced him into either getting use to changing his wifi info each month, or stick with WEP
[14:12] <directhex> 50 meg for banshee binary with bundlemania
[14:12] <directhex> with most functionality disabled
[14:13] <dwatkins> HazRPG: eek
[14:13] <dwatkins> directhex: what's that and do you have a link to more information?
[14:14] <directhex> dwatkins, see Laney's link
[14:14] <dwatkins> thanks
[14:14] <Laney> it's clever, but you'd be better off creting a proper package
[14:14] <dwatkins> directhex: I thought you were referring to an ISP ;)
[14:15] <HazRPG> directhex, Laney, heh yeah that's the sort of thing I pretty much meant :)
[14:16] <gpd> Anyone used Web Tapestry FFTC Broadband - see http://bit.ly/f3il0d ?
[14:16] <gpd> Advantage over BT seems to be static IP and not BT...
[14:17] <gpd> s/FFTC/FTTC/
[14:18] <gpd> meh - BT Infinity it is... I may regret this.
[14:18] <directhex> gpd, also, it's not BT
[14:18] <directhex> gpd, interesting url, thanks. /me bookmarks
[14:19] <gord> not bt is a huge plus
[14:19] <hamitron> BT are in my good books atm
[14:19] <gpd> as long as it stays up - i don't really care who it is with... [bishop / actress]
[14:19] <hamitron> they've rewired my phone
[14:19] <hamitron> :)
[14:20] <dwatkins> hamitron: did that resolve a problem?
[14:20] <hamitron> yes
[14:20] <directhex> my phone line has been down since thursday
[14:21] <dwatkins> I had an engineer over who seemed to know what he was doing, fixed a balance problem in the wiring before the master socket, replaced the socket itself with one with a built-in filter and replaced my homehub2, but the problem remained - I have to reset it every 2 days because the wifi just appears to turn off
[14:21] <shauno> I'm still unclear why people still have phone lines
[14:21] <dwatkins> mobile reception in the flat I'm in is terrible, shauno
[14:21] <dwatkins> I'm surrounded by stone buildings
[14:21] <hamitron> lag on mobile broadband.....
[14:21] <hamitron> plus no signa;
[14:21] <gpd> dwatkins: Sure Signal - i got one last week :)
[14:21] <hamitron> signal
[14:22] <dwatkins> gpd: yeah, I have been tempted to get one too
[14:22] <gpd> only vodafone though - but switching now
[14:22] <oimon> talktalk actually have a page where they tell you that other providers are cheaper :o http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/product/compare/broadband
[14:22] <gpd> works well - can get it f20 quid on a contract
[14:22]  * hamitron doesn't know how someone can live with no phone line
[14:22] <dwatkins> I'd be very interested if 3 did a suresignal equivalent
[14:22] <hamitron> ;)
[14:23] <shauno> I've never bothered hooking up a wired telco since I left home
[14:23] <directhex> our FTTC cabinet goes live in a couple of months
[14:23] <shauno> seems silly to have 3 phonebills for 2 people
[14:23] <directhex> so that webtapestry thing is very tempting
[14:23] <hamitron> I wouldn't even touch wireless to my phone line, with a barge pole tbh
[14:24] <hamitron> shauno: but what about games..... :/
[14:24] <dwatkins> touch, hamitron?
[14:24] <shauno> hamitron: games?
[14:24] <hamitron> dwatkins: ethernet all the way
[14:24] <hamitron> yeh games!
[14:24] <hamitron> ;)
[14:24] <dwatkins> hamitron: ah yes, nice when you can do it
[14:25] <shauno> games seem to work fine on cable
[14:25] <directhex> gpd, very poor reviews, from a quick google :(
[14:25] <gpd> is there a way to switch ISPs without being disconnected for '15 days' (computer says no voice)
[14:25] <gpd> directhex: ok - thanks... i guess BT isn't going to go bust either
[14:25] <gpd> [at least not in the near future]
[14:26] <dwatkins> gpd: yeah, get a second phone line or cabled internets
[14:26] <hamitron> shauno: isn't cable technically a line?
[14:26] <directhex> gpd, yes.
[14:26] <DJones> gpd: My Dad has just changed from F2S to BT, the only downtime he had was the time it took him to change routers & configure the new one
[14:26] <shauno> hamitron: sure, but it's a whole lot more useful than a phoneline
[14:26] <gpd> cable would be great - but 1) it is VIRGIN, 2) you have to pay 13 for a virgin phone anyway... pointless
[14:26] <shauno> it has films at the other end, instead of .. BT
[14:27] <hamitron> shauno: but I wouldn't replace a phone line with mobile internet
[14:27] <gpd> DJones: xlnt news
[14:27] <directhex> gpd, it's magic: http://threestore.three.co.uk/broadband/
[14:27] <hamitron> can't get cable around my area
[14:28] <shauno> oh I don't replace anything with mobile 'broadband'.  it's handy to have 3mbit when ntl fail.  other than that it's mostly intolerable
[14:28] <gpd> directhex: are you suggesting mobile broadband instead of 40Mb FTTC?!?
[14:28] <hamitron> shauno: yeh
[14:28] <DJones> gpd: Thinking back, when I changed from F2S to Sky, again that had no waiting time
[14:28] <directhex> gpd, i'm suggesting mobile broadband as a catch-all backup plan for when dsl conmpanies screw you over
[14:29] <hamitron> catch-all?
[14:29] <ging> i've upgraded my laptop through atleast 4 or 5 ubuntu releases, is there away to purge some of the old kernal options from grub?
[14:29] <gpd> directhex: ah - sorry - good point - yes np.
[14:30] <directhex> gpd, i've heard mixed views of bt infinity too :/
[14:30] <daubers> Isn't there a router about that lets you use a mobi broadband dongle as a backup connection?
[14:30] <hamitron> what is wrong with copper?
[14:30] <gpd> ging: I do it by hand using aptitude - searching for old kernels - but probably a simpler way. computer janitor should do it - but doesn't seem to
[14:30] <hamitron> :/
[14:30] <dwatkins> I have unlimited BT, but it doesn't stop me from having to reset the router every 48 hours. I'm starting to think I should put it on a timer so it resets every night.
[14:30] <hamitron> if we all reduced our expectations of the amount of data to transfer, copper would be fine
[14:31] <daubers> dwatkins: I'm convinced that all routers run the same base code, and there's a memory leak causing that
[14:31] <dwatkins> daubers: I have a buffalo router that didn't need resetting for months at a time, and we connected the same phones and laptops to it via wifi :-/
[14:31] <ging> gpd: this is not how things work, i usually come to this channel with somthing i think is a difficult problem and someone gives me a 1-2 line solution
[14:31] <dwatkins> unless it's something hoopy like the DHCP serve crashing 24 hours after giving the TV or the PS3 an IP address
[14:31] <daubers> heh
[14:32] <ging> this time i come with what i think is a simple problem and i have to do it manually?
[14:32] <daubers> I keep meanign to get rid of the router and get an ethernet modem, a switch and an access point
[14:32] <gpd> ging: dont' listen to me - i'm old skool ;)
[14:32] <daubers> let a little server handle DHCP,DNS and the like
[14:32] <dwatkins> ging: do you need to remove them?
[14:32] <hamitron> any Mac boys here use Parallels Desktop?
[14:33] <oimon> ging, have you ever used an application called Ubuntu tweak
[14:33] <ging> dwatkins: well yeah because scrowlling through 50 differnt ubuntu kernals in grub is not fun
[14:33] <dwatkins> hamitron: I use virtualbox because I'm cheap ;)
[14:33] <ging> oimon: yeah i think i have that installed
[14:33] <hamitron> dwatkins: :D
[14:33] <oimon> ging, go to the Package Cleaner section
[14:34] <gpd> ging: http://tuxtweaks.com/2010/10/remove-old-kernels-in-ubuntu-with-one-command/
[14:34] <gpd> ^^ one liner... !
[14:34] <oimon> then choose clean kernels
[14:34] <hamitron> dwatkins: down to 30 quid on amazon, sort of tempted.... in case I get a Mac
[14:34] <dwatkins> hamitron: nice, thanks
[14:34] <hamitron> dwatkins: but I am so cheap i don't ahve a Mac
[14:34] <hamitron> ;)
[14:34] <directhex> gpd, big problem seems to be contention ratio suckage
[14:34] <dwatkins> hamitron: if you get one, it'll save you money on wigs in the long run ;)
[14:34] <hamitron> haha
[14:36] <gpd> directhex: I'm in the process of ordering BT Infinity 40/9 Mb unlimited... for 25/mo, 18mo ctract.
[14:36] <hamitron> dwatkins: was thinking of trying MacOS on a normal comp, but decided that is not reaping the main advantages of no hassle with a Mac
[14:37] <gpd> seems better than 18/mo for O2 giving only 8/1Mb unlimited...
[14:37] <hamitron> "only"? ;/
[14:37] <oimon> gpd that include line rental too?
[14:37] <ging> thanks gpd, oimon
[14:37] <hamitron> I've been celebrating with my 1200/440
[14:37] <hamitron> :D
[14:37] <directhex> gpd, let me know how it goes
[14:37] <gpd> oimon: no - fraid not - +12 BT phone :(
[14:37] <oimon> boo
[14:38] <dwatkins> hamitron: it's got its advantages as a BSD-related OS, but yeah, best to get an actual Mac for many reasons, not just because it's cheeky to run the OS on other hardware ;)
[14:38] <oimon> gonna phone TT retentions to try and get some money off
[14:38] <gpd> oimon: was tempted by Virgin - to rid me of that cost -= but they want to charge 13 for their 'phone'... on all their packages.
[14:38] <hamitron> dwatkins: the cheek part I call an advantage.... kinda like running Linux on the xbox
[14:39] <oimon> my experience of virgin is that they are thieves YMMV
[14:39] <directhex> i don't doubt it, but i at least want the option
[14:39] <directhex> i can't pick virgin.
[14:39]  * hamitron likes Demon Internet
[14:39] <oimon> TT i am paying 19.59 (bb + phone) before call charges
[14:39] <gpd> oimon: what number are you calling BT on for that?
[14:40] <oimon> huh?
[14:40] <gpd> oimon: who is TT?
[14:40] <oimon> talktalk
[14:40] <hamitron> tatty telecomm
[14:41] <oimon> or trickle trickle...as their prices have gone up about 40% over the last 3 years
[14:41] <gpd> oimon: did you pick them over PlusNet?
[14:41] <hamitron> ;/
[14:41]  * daubers quite likes plusnet
[14:41]  * DJones hands oimon a sharp stick to poke talktalk with
[14:41] <oimon> gpd: i inherited the TT line so rather than pay for a BT reconnection i stuck with them
[14:41] <daubers> Not had too many issues, and those we have had have been resolved quite quickly
[14:42] <hamitron> daubers: that the yorkshire broadband one?
[14:42] <gpd> any company that uses 8pounds/ month - then says in tiny letters (for 1st 3 months - then 200/mo) must die.
[14:42] <dwatkins> that's quite a hike!
[14:42] <daubers> hamitron: No idea :)
[14:42] <oimon> and the ASA for allowing it
[14:43] <gpd> s/200/20/
[14:43] <hamitron> daubers: according to the tv adverts, call centers in the UK
[14:43] <directhex> "You're in a Virgin Media National broadband area" - this is code for "BT Wholesale"
[14:43] <hamitron> I was tempted, then realised it was hassle to change from something I am already happy with
[14:43] <daubers> hamitron: Only support people who where better than plus net was the guy at O2 who, when I said their nameserver was broken, asked "Which one?", tested it and agreed with my diagnosis in a 5 minute call :)
[14:44] <hamitron> :D
[14:44] <daubers> hamitron: Ah, don't watch that funny box with the people inside it
[14:44] <hamitron> daubers: faultly phone line has encouraged me into the addictition :(
[14:44] <daubers> heh :)
[14:44] <hamitron> addiction also
[14:45] <hamitron> I am trying to stop, as I realised I was sitting for 3 hours per day watching a load of, errrm, stuff
[14:46] <hamitron> none the wiser at the end of it
[14:47] <hamitron> watching someone calling lion's over then hiding in a cage for example
[14:47] <hamitron> (I reckon I could work out for myself to hide in a cage)
[14:49] <hamitron> lucky for me they will be turning off the analogue tv signals soon, so that will save me
[14:51] <hamitron> right, 10 mins before I normally do this... but gonna get tea and cakes
[14:51] <hamitron> brb :)
[15:02] <jonny> Anyone know the list of seeds used to make a live cd?
[15:02] <oimon> got off the phone from TT retentions
[15:03] <oimon> two months line rental for free and £2 off monthly bill for next 12 months..
[15:04] <oimon> prob about £50 over the year, so not bad. i felt bad asking for more than that :S
[15:05]  * willy1977 needs to start working for himself at least there's only one idiot to blame then...
[15:05] <willy1977> oimon: is that what you got for phoning up talktalk? that's not so bad?
[15:06] <oimon> yeah
[15:06] <oimon> i had to agree to 18month contract
[15:06] <willy1977> no great shakes I guess...
[15:06] <oimon> i possibly could have got a free router too, gamblers regret i guess
[15:07] <willy1977> i transferred to talktalk recently so you would've ended up with a router similar to mine...
[15:07] <willy1977> assuming they haven't changed in a month/2months
[15:08] <oimon> quite happy with mine - although my laptop supports wireless N
[15:08] <oimon> and the router is G only
[15:10] <oimon> static IP would have been nice :S
[15:11] <willy1977> pay extra for it don't you ;) i've used dyndns and the router supports it so it's not so bad... but yeah static would be better of course.
[15:11] <jonny> If any of you are considering changing ISP, these guys look excellent: http://ukfsn.org/
[15:13] <willy1977> from a brief whizz through they definitely seem worth investigating ;)
[15:26] <darkwingduck_> hello
[15:31] <willy1977> darkwingduck_: hello
[15:32] <darkwingduck_> no craic
[15:47] <hamitron> willy1977: do talk talk do static ip? when i asked them, they transfered me to their business section (Opal)
[15:47] <willy1977> it was an option whilst I was signing up...?
[15:47] <willy1977> but I was too tight...
[15:47] <hamitron> maybe new then
[15:48] <hamitron> also, I was taken back by their FUP
[15:48] <hamitron> atm I have 60Gb download per month, with unlimited upload
[15:48] <hamitron> Opal was 50Gb combined
[15:50] <willy1977> :o
[15:51] <willy1977> for a business account? doesn't sound all that "fair"
[15:52] <oimon> it seems TT no longer offer static IP
[15:53]  * oimon has 8 public class C's to play with anyway
[15:57] <oimon> BBC only allowed downloads of "the killing" on iplayer for about a week :(
[16:00] <Laney> a week is standard for iplayer
[16:00] <oimon> Laney: really? that sucks
[16:00] <oimon> thought it was a month :(
[16:01] <willy1977> depends on the program
[16:01] <oimon> apparently some BBC employees have access to an iplayer archive of all programmes in perpetuity
[16:02] <popey> some non-BBC employees have access to an archive of lots of BBC and non BBC programmes
[16:03] <oimon> popey: youtube?
[16:03] <popey> i believe they still archive all FTA freeview stuff directly
[16:03] <popey> and there was a limited set of users given access, no new signups allowed
[16:03] <popey> but you can login and grab the direct MPEG2 streams for any program in the last 7 days or so
[16:04] <oimon> sounds mysterious
[16:04] <popey> it was a pilot project in parallel to iplayer
[16:04] <popey> i have a friend who has access
[16:06] <oimon> nice
[16:09] <gpd> damn - 12 minutes on hold to O2 to get a MAC and escape to BT Infinity - then they hit you with an offer... balls.
[16:10] <oimon> seesaw.com have some old programmes for free too
[16:10] <gord> bt infinity still does traffic shaping, really don't want to live with 12kb/s for anything non http during the peak periods (ie: all weekend. evenings) - put me off getting it
[16:11] <d3ngar> Hey there
[16:11] <gpd> which turns out to be a con (i.e. 12 month contract thrown in) but enough of a doubt has been planted in your mind that you say 'i'll call back once Ive thought about it'....
[16:11] <gpd> oh my days.
[16:11] <d3ngar> Does anyone know how to forward a local port to an ssh server?
[16:12] <d3ngar> I think it's ssh -fgNL <localport>:host:<hostport> sshhost
[16:12] <popey> not without a better description of what you want to achieve, no :)
[16:12] <d3ngar> But somehow that doesn't work
[16:12] <popey> i use ssh -LNNN:HOST:NNNN HOST
[16:12] <popey> dunno what -fgN are
[16:12] <d3ngar> I want to forward this machines port 5900 to my home computer
[16:13] <popey> ssh -L5900:localhost:5900 remotehost
[16:13] <d3ngar> -N prevents the remote shell
[16:13] <d3ngar> of course 5900 is in use on the remote host
[16:13] <d3ngar> so remote host should be a different port
[16:13] <popey> which is fine
[16:13] <popey> no
[16:13] <gpd> gord: have you got a link for that BT stuff?
[16:13] <d3ngar> ??
[16:14] <d3ngar> How can two VNC servers are on the same port?
[16:14] <popey> d3ngar: do you want to view your home computer from here, or send your "here" computer to home?
[16:14] <d3ngar> here to home
[16:14] <popey> so you want -R, not -L
[16:14] <d3ngar> Ah, R!
[16:15] <gord> gpd, its in the terms of services - friend of mine couldn't even play online games during the evenings/weekends because of bt's traffic shaping
[16:15] <d3ngar> So then it's ssh -RN <localPort>:server:<remotePort> server?
[16:15] <gpd> gord: can it be worse on FTTC than normal ADSL2+?
[16:16] <popey> no
[16:16] <d3ngar> :(
[16:16] <popey> noor yes
[16:16] <gord> gpd, they are limiting your speed to a very low speed to stop you using large amounts of bandwidth, it'll still be very low even on fttc
[16:16] <popey> but it's -NR, not RN
[16:18] <oimon> could the "screw $currentdistro, i'm switching to Arch" be the best geek t-shirt ever?
[16:18] <gpd> meh. when's Portal 2 out... massive advert on the floor of Piccadilly station... must be soon... /me googles
[16:19] <gpd> "In stores April, PreOrder now"... err.. it's 4th today... in my world.
[16:20] <Laney> still have 25 and a bit days left the
[16:20] <Laney> n
[16:21] <gpd> what they mean is 'in stores [some time in] April [if we are lucky]'
[16:21]  * AlanBell boggles at Bug #745527
[16:22] <Laney> fair enough
[16:23] <popey> :)
[16:23] <popey> nice
[16:24] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Why being an approved loco team doesnt actually matter a jot - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/04/04/why-being-an-approved-loco-team-doesnt-actually-matter-a-jot/
[16:25] <davmor2> popey: why does the  show up instead of '  on things like the planet feed info above?
[16:26] <davmor2> popey: is it just a non ascii character or something?
[16:26] <Laney> it's an ’ quote
[16:32] <brobostigon> good afternoon everyone.
[16:33] <Laney> greetings
[16:33] <brobostigon> hi Laney
[16:33] <Laney> alright?
[16:34] <marxjohnson> If any of you fine IRCers would be so kind to help out with the next episode of the Ubuntu UK podcast, please fill in this 1 minute questionnaire: http://tinyurl.com/uupcfortunes
[16:34]  * brobostigon screams and shouts in frustration at the top of his voice.
[16:34] <brobostigon> Laney: not so hot, and you?
[16:34] <Laney> oh :(
[16:34] <Laney> i am ok, winding up to leave and go kayaking
[16:35] <ging> gpd: i'm now running that command you found for me, i read it through it claims it will filter out the currently running kernal and not remove that 1
[16:35] <ging> it says it's going to free up 2gig of space as well
[16:35] <ging> how can i have 2 gig of old kernals?
[16:35] <gpd> ging: dont' blame me if it eats your system - i just googled it... :)
[16:35] <gpd> i'd be very afraid.
[16:35] <ging> gpd: i know
[16:36] <ging> i read it through it had a very nice explanation of how the command is built up and what each bit does, i wish more websites did that
[16:37] <gpd> ok - linux-headers is 75MB for 2.6.32-29
[16:37] <brobostigon> Laney: :)
[16:37] <gpd> removing only that kernel frees up 185Mb total
[16:37] <gpd> that's doing it by hand in Aptitude
[16:40] <ging> well it claims to have finnished and my screen hasnt just filled with endless errors and faults or died, so now i shall see if it boots too
[16:40] <gpd> check grub menu 1st!
[16:42] <oimon> marxjohnson: i don't understand what that was about but i did it anyway
[16:42] <marxjohnson> oimon: thanks :-)
[16:42] <winterweaver> I want to try out ubuntu 64 bit, but the 64 bit install reads ...AMD64... does it matter if I have an core i7 and not an AMD?
[16:43] <oimon> oimon: P.s. graphical application could be interpreted as application with a GUI, or a graphics manipulation package
[16:43] <marxjohnson> winterweaver: no
[16:44] <popey> oimon: do you listen to uupc?
[16:44] <marxjohnson> AMD64 will work on Intel 64 bit chips
[16:44] <oimon> yes
[16:44]  * brobostigon is having difficulty using irssi.
[16:44] <oimon> although have been saving latest episode for commute tonight
[16:44] <oimon> popey: i think i understand now - its family fortunes
[16:45] <oimon> when i see fortunes in a linux context i think !info fortune
[16:45] <oimon> !info fortune
[16:45] <oimon> :(
[16:45] <ging> yay it worked
[16:46]  * oimon doesn't believe the bot
[16:46] <popey> no
[16:46] <popey> AMD64 works on all Intel and AMD capable x86-64 compatible CPUs
[16:47] <d3ngar> popey: can I ask you for your advise on the port forwarding once more? It seems that it's not working...
[16:47] <winterweaver> thx marxjohnson
[16:47] <popey> ps. dont talk about the content of that link pls :)
[16:47] <d3ngar> I want to forward clients port 5900 to 5999 on the ssh server
[16:47] <marxjohnson> oh yeah popey etc aren't allowed to see the survey
[16:47] <DJones> winterweaver: I've just installed the amd64  version on an i3 with no issues
[16:47] <marxjohnson> so shh
[16:48] <d3ngar> I do: ssh -R 5900:ssh-server-address:5999 ssh-server-address
[16:48] <d3ngar> right?
[16:49] <bigcalm> popey: have you gone for the 30mb connection yet?
[16:52] <popey> nope
[16:52] <popey> not inquired
[16:53] <popey> d3ngar: ports round wrong way surely
[16:53] <Mez> interesting new feature...
[16:54] <Mez> The installation of a package which violates the quality standards isn't allowed. This could cause serious problems on your computer. Please contact the person or organisation who provided this package file and include the details beneath.
[16:54] <Laney> yeah
[16:54] <Laney> just lintian, isn't it?
[16:54] <Mez> yeah
[16:54] <Laney> not sure about that... what did it trigger on?
[16:55] <directhex> iirc /opt is a trigger
[16:55] <Mez> but the thing I find amusing - is that the "quality" checks are mainly stuff that can't cause damage...
[16:55] <Laney> "we've trusted you to upload to the archive, but now will block your package from users"
[16:55] <Mez> Laney: skype :)
[16:55] <Laney> hah
[16:55] <Mez> Laney: Debian at least has a list ofauto-rejects based on lintian for the source stuff..
[16:58] <Laney> right, at least you get a chance to fix that
[16:58] <Laney> and it's done in a transparent way
[17:03] <HazRPG> I can't remember who linked it, but I've filled in the form for the podcast
[17:03] <marxjohnson> HazRPG: Thanks very much!
[17:03] <brobostigon> good afternoon HazRPG :)
[17:04] <AlanBell> HazRPG: it was marxjohnson
[17:07] <HazRPG> brobostigon: good afternoon :)
[17:07] <HazRPG> marxjohnson: some of the questions seem random
[17:07] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[17:08] <marxjohnson> HazRPG: Don't want to make it too easy for them ;-)
[17:08] <HazRPG> marxjohnson: what are the questions in the quiz centring around? Is it just general knowledge?
[17:09] <imexil> Hi, so since being ill last week I decided to upgrade to Natty already. I now wonder what the area is called where the clock and operational indicators show up so I can do a search for "how to add system-monitor to <???>" :)
[17:10] <marxjohnson> HazRPG: You'll find out when you listen to the show ;-)
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> imexil: it's the unity panel, and you can't unless you switch back to the classic Gnome panel.
[17:27] <imexil> MartijnVdS: Thanks and shame...
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> you don't want to hear my opinion on unity. It's not family-friendly ;)
[17:29] <gordonjcp> I really wanted to like Unity
[17:29] <gordonjcp> but it's bloody horrible
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: exactly
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> Same with Gnome Shell
[17:30] <gordonjcp> yup
[17:30] <gordonjcp> I just can't figure out Unity at all
[17:30] <gordonjcp> and Gnome Shell looks really dated
[17:31] <gordonjcp> it's like something from the mid-90s
[17:31] <gordonjcp> well, they both are
[17:31]  * brobostigon hugs  BeOS and haiku-os
[17:31] <gordonjcp> unidentifiable little squares with no clue as to function
[17:31] <gordonjcp> stuff whooshing around the screen, seemingly randomly
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: but you don't NEED to configure things!
[17:31] <AlanBell> I think the bit that I get the least about Unity is the pinning things you like to the sidebar
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: we know better than you!
[17:32] <d3ngar> popey: I got the port forwarded correctly, but I still struggle with another ssh problem: the ssh-key
[17:32] <gordonjcp> I don't get the sidebar at all
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> also, global menu *shudder*
[17:32] <gordonjcp> how is it supposed to work?
[17:32] <AlanBell> so your sidebar ends up as a mixture of stuff that is running and stuff that isn't running
[17:32] <d3ngar> I have created the key and put it on the server
[17:32] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I don't like how you have to mouse over each square to see what it is
[17:32] <d3ngar> in the authorized_keys file in .ssh
[17:33] <d3ngar> But it's not using it
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> "Let's be as MacOS as we can, even the bad bits"
[17:33] <d3ngar> I have checked that the ssh-config is correct
[17:33] <AlanBell> I have come to an arrangement with it though, I have a terminal running and if I want to launch an application I type "appname &" in the terminal and I use the sidebar for switching between running applications
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> I just installed XFCE
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> fixed it fine
[17:34] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes! it is as if someone went through macos and picked out all the really strange things and did them
[17:34] <daubers> AlanBell: I've just started using the "search" feature and typing in the application name
[17:34] <daubers> AlanBell: funnily enough, that's how I use Macs as well these days
[17:35] <gordonjcp> daubers: is that the alt-f2 box?
[17:35] <AlanBell> I haven't upgraded my host to Natty, but that is running Maverick Unity, I run Natty in a VM
[17:35] <daubers> gordonjcp: Don't think it appears on alt+f2. I hit the little ubuntu symbol and type in there
[17:35] <gordonjcp> I can't get that to work unless I wait about a second between keypresses, and then about five seconds before I hit return
[17:35] <AlanBell> I fully intend to use the application search thing in Natty
[17:35] <gordonjcp> daubers: oh, that just makes a big black window with little squares in appear
[17:35] <AlanBell> it is just too slow in Maverick
[17:36] <daubers> AlanBell: No shiny compiz love in the maverick one
[17:36] <shauno> that kinda ruins having a searchbox for me :(  that needs a hotkey asap
[17:36] <AlanBell> yeah, I have compiz in a VM though
[17:36] <gordonjcp> I'm probably going to remove Ubuntu from dual-boot here, it's just not usable any more
[17:37] <AlanBell> it is getting close to the time to upgrade the host to Natty
[17:37] <gordonjcp> I don't know what to install on PCs for non-techy people
[17:38] <gordonjcp> maybe it's time to look at Windows again, I hear it's improved since 3.11
[17:38] <daubers> gordonjcp: Try kubuntu instead. KDE 4 is quite shiny these dats
[17:38] <daubers> s/dats/days
[17:38] <marxjohnson> +1 for kubuntu
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> has KDE4 stopped crashing yet? :)
[17:39] <daubers> I have a debian install running kde, it's actually quite nice once you get past the "It's not gnome-yness"
[17:39] <Azelphur> gordonjcp: check out the next Ubuntu?
[17:39] <Azelphur> it's quite shiny too
[17:40] <gordonjcp> daubers: I've never liked KDE
[17:40] <gordonjcp> Azelphur: "next" after Natty?
[17:40] <Azelphur> nope, natty
[17:40] <Azelphur> has a whole new look :p
[17:40] <daubers> gordonjcp: Tried it recently?
[17:40] <daubers> gordonjcp: There's always xubuntu :) though XFCE takes a little more getting used too
[17:40] <gordonjcp> daubers: not since last night, when it once again blew away my bootloader
[17:41] <daubers> gordonjcp: KDE did that?
[17:41]  * daubers boggles
[17:41] <gordonjcp> daubers: no, Ubuntu
[17:41] <gordonjcp> I updated ubuntu, it reinstalled grub2 and killed my machine
[17:41] <daubers> Oh.... thats odd
[17:41] <gordonjcp> "YOU GET UBUNTU OR YOU GET NOTHING!"
[17:41] <daubers> gordonjcp: Mines playing nice with Win7 and debian
[17:42] <gordonjcp> for which I'm going to punch Mark Shuttleworth the next time he crosses my path
[17:42] <gordonjcp> daubers: anyway, it's just about usable in Classic mode except there's no volume control
[17:42] <gordonjcp> and the 1990s website colour scheme
[17:43] <daubers> gordonjcp: A gauntlet I'll lay down :) Put up with Unity for a week or two (once it's released) and see how you get on
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I had to shout at my PC after using it for a day
[17:44] <gordonjcp> daubers: I can't use Unity at all
[17:44] <daubers> gordonjcp: I did that with Win 7 a little while ago and had to revise _some_ of my dislikes
[17:44] <gordonjcp> daubers: no, really
[17:44] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Thats bad for the disks
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> win7 isn't that bad actually
[17:44] <gordonjcp> I can't use Unity for more than about 15 minutes
[17:44] <daubers> gordonjcp: What stops you using it?
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> daubers: what? shouting?
[17:44] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Yup
[17:44] <gordonjcp> daubers: the big ugly drop shadow
[17:44] <gordonjcp> it's instant eyestrain
[17:44] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I thought that was kicking :)
[17:44] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Thats worse....
[17:45] <gordonjcp> daubers: and the lack of a taskbar
[17:45] <brobostigon> i am happy enough with gnome-shell, it mkes huge improvements for me, and solves a few issues i had previously.
[17:45] <gordonjcp> daubers: and the lack of a working alt-f2 run box
[17:45] <daubers> gordonjcp: The dropshadow I hadn't noticed. The taskbar going made me fumble for a couple of days, but you get used to it being merged in the bar on the left
[17:46] <gordonjcp> daubers: I can't get used to the taskbar at all
[17:46] <gordonjcp> there's no way of telling what apps are what
[17:46] <daubers> gordonjcp: The alt+f2 thing is a major annoyance :( But really the only one I have at the moment
[17:46] <daubers> gordonjcp: You prefer words over icons?
[17:46] <gordonjcp> I can't see icons
[17:46] <daubers> (not a criticism, a question)
[17:46] <gordonjcp> they're all just identical little squares
[17:46] <gordonjcp> it's a kind of dyslexia thing
[17:46] <gordonjcp> well, not *quite* identical
[17:47] <daubers> gordonjcp: Do you get the same issue with IOS/Androidy/Touchy type UI's?
[17:47] <gordonjcp> yup
[17:48] <gordonjcp> I can get around android because everything has a text label
[17:48] <daubers> Hmmm....
[17:48] <gordonjcp> iphones I can't use without help
[17:48] <daubers> gordonjcp: I'd prod gord about getting mouseover texts or somesuch :)
[17:48] <gordonjcp> which is odd because things like circuit diagrams are no bother at all
[17:48] <gordonjcp> it's got mouseover text
[17:48] <daubers> gordonjcp: Make sure you file a bug and shout about to the ayatana and accessibility peeps
[17:48] <gordonjcp> it just sucks more than having a normal taksbar
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I bet Chinese would be.. Chinese to you then ;)
[17:48] <gordonjcp> *taskbar
[17:49] <gord> eh? what? what have i done now? it wasn't me? go away :(
[17:49] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I can read some JApanese
[17:49] <Pendulum> daubers: for accessibility we're pretty much telling people to use Classic Gnome, at least for Natty
[17:49] <gordonjcp> I can't type today though
[17:49] <daubers> gordonjcp: Apparently you've already done that...
[17:49] <daubers> Pendulum: :( Suppose that would happen with a non-LTS at some point
[17:49] <gord> daubers, what alt-f2 thing?
[17:49] <Pendulum> (not sure what we're doing after that because I'm hearing that Oneiric will only have Unity 3D and Unity2D and 2D is probably currently less accessible than 3D)
[17:49] <daubers> gord: No, mouse overy text
[17:50] <daubers> gord: Though fixing alt+f2 would be nice :)
[17:50] <gordonjcp> daubers: it's got mouse-over text, I just prefer having text visible instead of icons
[17:50] <daubers> gord: ^ would be nice if possible too...
[17:50] <gord> Pendulum, don't worry O's accessibility will kick-ass - desktop won't allow for us to ship with no accessible UI on the disk
[17:50] <gordonjcp> but I'd actually pay someone to find a way to remove that bloody awful migraine-inducing drop shadow
[17:51] <gord> daubers, why do you want mouse overlay text?
[17:51] <gord> daubers, fixing alt-f2? what?
[17:51] <daubers> gord: Some sort of non-icony way of using the dock thing, apparently some people have issues identifying icons apart
[17:52] <gord> you get a label when you mouse over the different dock items
[17:52] <Pendulum> gord: you probably don't want to get me started on what I think about the fact that they're willing to ship Unity as the default (yes, I know classic gnome is also installed, but you have to know how to get to it if you're not installing from an accessibility profile) without it being accessible.
[17:53] <gordonjcp> gord: yeah, but that means I have to keep mousing over the dock to find out what's what
[17:53] <Pendulum> (in fact, I can't be bothered to do that rant now because my hands are in bad shape and I'm not going to make them worse just to rant)
[17:53] <gord> gordonjcp, the alternative is to have all the labels shown no?
[17:54] <gordonjcp> gord: yes, ideally in some sort of strip along the bottom
[17:54] <gordonjcp> gord: even better if there's one for each open window
[17:54] <gord> gordonjcp, your insane ;)
[17:54] <AlanBell> it would have been easier if accessibility had been designed in from the start
[17:54] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that's always true
[17:54] <gord> accessibility was designed in from the start
[17:55] <daubers> just not wired up?
[17:55] <gordonjcp> gord: it's not very accessible for people who aren't good at telling one little square apart from another little near-identical square
[17:55] <gord> but y'know what, accessibility is *hard* - it takes a lot of effort - i don't think a single person on the unity team didn't touch accessibility at some point not all the accessibility stuff is finished yet and that's bad, but its still a huge focus for us
[17:55] <Pendulum> gord: erm, no it wasn't. there's no a11y for Maverick Unity and they had to write the framework afterwards for Natty unity
[17:56] <Pendulum> gord: I know it's been worked on a lot and I know that the Unity team is generally committed to it
[17:56] <gordonjcp> anyway, if someone can provide a good method of removing those drop shadows from the windows in Unity, I'll have another crack at it
[17:56] <Pendulum> my complaints are a lot less with the unity team and a lot more with TPTB for not actually thinking about the time/people/money commitment it was going to realisticly take
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: it's software. Welcome to the real world.
[17:58] <brobostigon> TPTB?
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the powers that be
[17:58] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, ok. :)
[17:59] <daubers> Pendulum: They've done spectacularly well considering the time scale given. It is at least relativey stable and useable (once you're used to it)
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> gvim windows still disappear randomly
[17:59] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I did say relativley :)
[18:00] <daubers> also, gvim's for wimps!
[18:00] <daubers> :p
[18:02] <AlanBell> daubers: tried using unity with orca?
[18:02] <daubers> AlanBell: Nope
[18:03] <AlanBell> it is a lot better than maverick unity, and a lot better than it was earlier in the cycle
[18:04] <daubers> AlanBell: However, I've never really used Orca. Also have to admit that I sit in debian more often recently (but thats more because I have debian stable and am using that to learn the Kernel)
[18:19] <AlanBell> gord: are you supposed to be able to hold alt+click drag windows from anywhere still?
[18:24] <popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_CDLBTJD4M wow
[18:26] <gord> AlanBell, yup. does it not work for you? make sure to do a unity --reset to restore the default compiz keybindings
[18:27] <popey> i crashed compiz again today
[18:27]  * popey tries to re-do the crash
[18:27] <MartijnVdS> Starting any BitKeeper GUI app at work crashes compiz
[18:28] <popey> yup
[18:29] <MartijnVdS> you use bk as well?
[18:29] <popey> no
[18:30] <AlanBell> gord: ok, probably because I am running it in a vm
[19:26] <kvarley> Bit off topic here but is anybody good with blender?
[19:26] <kvarley> Can't seem to make a python export script work
[19:34] <exobuzz> get your joggler ubuntu based os' here http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ (updated 04/04/2011)
[19:36] <ging> yay
[19:36] <ging> been looking for 1
[19:51] <Darael> Got an interesting one here: Latest kernel refuses to acknowledge my wifi card's existence - it doesn't even appear in lspci.  Reverting to 2.6.35-27, it works fine.
[19:55] <jacobw> What wireless card have you got?
[20:16] <Darael> jacobw: Thanks, but after a reboot into the older one and back, it's working again.
[20:23] <jacobw> Darael: stange :s perhaps the old kernel reinstated the module to being loaded by default
[20:30] <ivanka> hello czajkowski
[20:30] <ivanka> hello everyone else
[20:30] <AlanBell> hello ivanka-train
[20:31] <jacobw> o/
[20:32] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: hello
[20:34] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: I got mpt to tweet a page I did with the new ubuntu logos and web colours - wondered if people might like to retweet?
[20:34] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: http://design.canonical.com/the-toolkit/ubuntu-logo-and-circle-of-friends/
[20:35] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: it seems nobody really likes going through the folder structure to find what they need so I thought I should surface them a little better
[20:38] <matti> LOL ivanka-train ;]
[20:38] <matti> Nice nick ;]
[20:38] <ivanka-train> matti: well, if I stop responding, you have been warned!
[20:38] <ivanka-train> matti: you just never know when the signal will die
[20:38] <matti> ;p
[20:39] <matti> Watch out for tunnels ;]
[20:41] <ivanka-train> matti: now do me a favour and have a look at the link I posted up there and tell me if it needs more stuff
[20:41] <ivanka-train> matti: please :-)
[20:43] <matti> ivanka-train: Sure.
[20:43] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ubuntu_logo_black-orange-300x67.jpg fuzzy jpg makes me sad
[20:44] <AlanBell> no alpha channel and lossy compression
[20:44] <AlanBell> so they only work on white ivanka-train
[20:44] <matti> Yeah.
[20:44] <matti> ivanka-train: All of them are great.
[20:45] <matti> ivanka-train: But we need lossless PNG with alpha channel too.
[20:45] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: is it fuzzy?
[20:45] <matti> ivanka-train: Or something crazy like that.
[20:45] <matti> ivanka-train: I see it blurry too.
[20:45]  * matti is using LCD high with resolution.
[20:45] <matti> sRGB colour palette.
[20:45] <ivanka-train> matti: AlanBell: bugger - we have them in all formats: jpg, svg and png - will put them all up tomorrow - can't do it from here
[20:46] <matti> ivanka-train: No worries ;]
[20:46] <AlanBell> ivanka-train: and the colours are all different and all not #dd4814 :(
[20:46] <AlanBell> lossy compression is fuzzy
[20:47] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: matti: they all sit in here: http://design.canonical.com/brand
[20:47] <matti> Is Census also sending you guys nagging post even despite you have completed it on-line?
[20:47] <matti> I've got second letter today.
[20:47] <ivanka-train> but nobody seems to like to go through and pull them out
[20:47] <matti> ivanka-train: You have to be the heroine who does it, then ;]
[20:47] <matti> GO ivanka GO
[20:48] <ivanka-train> matti: I haven't been nagged by them
[20:48] <ivanka-train> matti: plently of other people, but not them
[20:48]  * AlanBell is using Ubuntu and a regular LCD
[20:48] <ivanka-train> :-)
[20:48] <matti> AlanBell: Is it a regular Ubuntu too? :P
[20:48] <matti> :>
[20:49] <shauno> iirc the assets zip has png & svg.
[20:49] <ivanka-train> matti: I can do this. I can!
[20:49] <matti> ivanka-train: Yes YOU CAN! *fanfares*
[20:49] <AlanBell> great ivanka-train, it is good to have them outside of the archive files, but jpg is really only good for photos and stuff where it can hide the compression errors
[20:50] <ivanka-train> matti hehe
[20:50] <AlanBell> .png is awesome for getting colours right and having a full alpha channel
[20:50] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: yes. ok. Will fix!
[20:50] <AlanBell> so you could have alpha blended anti aliasing that looks awesome on any background
[20:50] <shauno> png tends to do better at graphics, with hard edges & such.  jpeg for photos
[20:50] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: matti: I also hope to one day do a google image search for ubuntu logo and see at least one new circle of friends
[20:51] <AlanBell> better than the one with bottoms!
[20:51] <matti> [ Voice of James Earl Jones ]: In the land, where nobody cares about what to put on the web site... ivanka, a brave heroine is about to face the chellenge and boldly go where no web designer has gone before...
[20:51] <ivanka-train> AlanBell: indeed!
[20:51] <ivanka-train> matti: hehe
[20:51] <ivanka-train> shauno, AlanBell: I hear ya.
[20:52] <matti> ivanka-train: I am sorry. I am in silly mood mode ;]
[20:53] <ivanka-train> matti: I will be silly soon - I just want to get home!
[20:53]  * ivanka-train cries into her todo list
[20:53] <matti> ivanka-train: I guess, crying was on the list? ;p
[20:54] <ivanka-train> matti: no. procrastinating!
[20:54] <matti> Hahaha
[20:54] <matti> ivanka-train += 1
[20:56] <matti> ivanka-train: For you ;) http://deadbeef.info/tmp/15.jpg
[20:57] <ivanka-train> matti: very good.
[20:57] <matti> Again, sorry.
[20:57]  * matti puts the blame on his silly mood.
[20:57] <matti> ;]
[20:58] <ivanka-train> matti: I like it. I want it on a mug
[20:58] <matti> I had so much boolean and predicate logic combined with relation theory to do for university.
[20:58] <matti> That silly mode is a way to escape from reality ;p
[20:58] <matti> Otherwise I will end up like in the PI movie.
[20:58] <matti> ;]
[20:58] <Myrtti> aw, I've got salmiakki in my hair now :-(
[20:58] <Myrtti> sticky boiled candy ftl :-C
[20:58] <matti> Ouch.
[20:59] <matti> Myrtti: Go bold.
[20:59] <matti> ;]
[20:59] <matti> Myrtti: 5 mm cut and you'll be next J.I.Jane.
[20:59] <matti> ivanka-train: I will see what I can do about the mug business ;]
[21:00] <Myrtti> I was thinking of that earlier when we were mentally preparing for mums chemo, but her medication seems to be a hair-saving one so looks like I don't need to do it after all
[21:00] <ivanka-train> matti: it's my birthday in september :-)
[21:01] <matti> Myrtti: Aha.
[21:01] <matti> ivanka-train: I see... Dully noted ;]
[21:01] <ivanka-train> matti: AlanBell: train arriving. byeeeee
[21:01]  * ivanka-train waves
[21:01] <matti> Byeee...
[21:01] <matti> ;]
[21:05] <Welshy-Rob> Hello. i have tried to open a folder in my home dir and the file browser just closes, i have tried to cd into it but apparently there is no such file, but it shows up when i ls -a ? can anyone help?
[21:05] <slipstream> does the filename begin with a "."?
[21:05] <Welshy-Rob> nope
[21:06] <Welshy-Rob> the dir im trying to get is /home/rob/Fb upload
[21:06] <slipstream> the space in the name might be causing trouble for cd
[21:06] <Welshy-Rob> ah okay
[21:07] <slipstream> try      cd /home/rob/Fb\ uploads
[21:08] <Welshy-Rob> slipstream, thanks :) it works now i just deleted the space haha
[21:09] <Welshy-Rob> slipstream, it still wont open in file browser though?
[21:10] <jacobw> a blank in a directory name shouldn't crash nautilus
[21:10] <Welshy-Rob> my thoughts exactly
[21:12] <gord> heh, phoronix is confused at why we recommend 32bit over 64 bit because there are open source versions of flash that work just fine on 64bit. made me giggle
[21:13] <slipstream> Hi, I've got a really annoying error. Whenever I log in to ubuntu the whole interface freezes, the mouse still moves but nothing happens, sometimes the panels and desltop load but are unresponsive, sometimes not. Everything works fine if I log in under safe mode. All users are affected. I've removed and reinstalled xorg and removed all the programs I can think of which were set to run at login but no effect. Any idea where to look next?
[21:13] <jacobw> !paste
[21:14] <jacobw> sorry, i was going to suggest welshy-rob pasted the output of `ls -la` but he's gone now
[21:18] <jacobw> i wasn't aware that flash was the reason we recommended 32 bit over 64 bit :|
[21:19] <ali1234> it isn't and we don't?
[21:19] <jacobw> i thought it was that 64 bit often isn't any faster
[21:19] <jacobw> yeah, i know that isn't the reason
[21:20] <directhex> t'is. flash and other random binary-only stuff.
[21:20] <slipstream> 64 bit is only faster if you're doing lots of video editing, or image editing or stuff like that
[21:21] <directhex> 64-bit is faster if you're doing anything computationally expensive, which benefits from the much larger number of general-purpose registers
[21:22] <ali1234> another way of looking at it is 32 bit is only the same as 64 bit if you only use your computer for twitter and facebook
[21:23] <shauno> are the flossy flash versions anywhere near functional enough to be relevant yet?
[21:23] <ali1234> no
[21:23] <slipstream> flossy flash?
[21:24] <shauno> I think it sounds more fun than gnash :)
[21:24] <jacobw> free flash seems like a bit of waste of time with html5 etc
[21:24] <directhex> jacobw, yeah, good thing every single .swf file on the planet was magically turned into a webm video file
[21:25] <shauno> I think it's a bit like wine.  encourage bad things to keep existing because it's less hassle than alternatives
[21:25] <ali1234> adobe should just make a damn video player plugin and be done with it
[21:25] <ali1234> there is no other use for flash that anyone cares about
[21:25] <directhex> companies like to value-add by doing their own widgets & stuff
[21:26] <jacobw> people don't want to use every .swf file on the planet, as long as youtube and others use html5 then the issue would be resolved as far as i understand
[21:26] <directhex> otherwise how to they differentiate?
[21:26] <ali1234> youtube doesn't use html5 is any useful way
[21:27] <directhex> youtube helps showcase how sucky html5 ios
[21:27] <ali1234> only about 3 videos on the whole site are html5 enabled
[21:27] <ali1234> not really, it's almost impossible to even find any html5
[21:27] <directhex> no fullscreen, generally clunkier behaviour, missing videos, and more cpu use than adobe flash
[21:27] <directhex> ali1234, anything with ads is forced to go through flash
[21:28] <ali1234> yes i know
[21:28] <directhex> ali1234, you need ad-free videos for html5
[21:28] <ali1234> which is about 99.99999% of all videos on youtube
[21:29] <ali1234> oh yeah, "more cpu than adobe flash" is not true
[21:29] <ali1234> maybe it's true on some test
[21:29] <ali1234> but it's not true on my machine
[21:29] <shauno> flash doesn't seem to lean on the gpu too much on mine, so native video always wins
[21:29] <ali1234> it's probably true on windows where there is hw video decoding support
[21:30] <slipstream> if im troubleshooting something which log files do I need to look at, I've tried .xsession-errors and that looks fine, but things still aint runnning right
[21:30] <ali1234> ifconfig
[21:30] <ali1234> oops :)
[21:30] <directhex> slipstream, a gui app?
[21:31] <slipstream> directhex, nah the whole gui, xorg is hanging a couple of seconds after login
[21:31] <slipstream> i can still switch to the other ttys though
[21:31] <directhex> anything in xorg.0.log?
[21:32] <slipstream> wheres that one?
[21:32] <slipstream> wait found it...
[21:35] <slipstream> directhex, I'll just recreate the error and then see if anything turns up in it. I'll be back
[21:38] <ali1234> so i'm looking into this resize gripper stuff
[21:39] <slipstream> directhex, the last line of the xorg.0.log for that session was [  2662.896]  ddxSigGiveUp: Closing log
[21:39] <ali1234> looks to me like canonical backported the whole feature from gtk3 - not just the default setting
[21:39] <slipstream> which sounds bad...
[21:39] <ali1234> so now any gtk2 app that doesn't want to show a resize gripper needs to have an ubuntu specific patch, since gtk2 elsewhere won't have any idea what a resize gripper even is
[21:40] <ali1234> of course there is now way to disable it globally without recompiling gtk2/3
[21:46] <gord> it was developed for gtk3 and backported yes
[21:48] <ali1234> yeah
[21:48] <slipstream> anyone got any ideas why the xorg.0.log might contain this repeated 10 times before it hangs? http://pastebin.com/w2J8LkMf
[21:49] <ali1234> the problem is there is no way for eg firefox upstream to fix the problem where the gripper overwrites the UI
[21:49] <ali1234> assuming firefox uses gtk2
[21:49] <ali1234> because standard gtk2 doesn't have this backported stuff
[21:49] <gord> firefox basically emulates gtk, imports styling from it
[21:50] <ali1234> so firefox and a million other apps are going to need a patch that says "gtk_window_set_has_resize_grip(window, false);"
[21:50] <ali1234> forever
[21:50] <gord> i wouldn't say a million other app's
[21:50] <ali1234> pretty much every app that uses gtk2
[21:50] <gord> what i am suggesting is that most apps don't need to do that
[21:51] <ali1234> and doesn't have a big empty space in the bottom right
[21:54] <ali1234> i'm actually surprised you didn't move it to the top left of the window too :)
[21:55] <AlanBell> ali1234: what issue is this?
[21:55] <ali1234> the resize gripper
[21:56] <AlanBell> I can't see what is wrong with it
[21:56] <AlanBell> it seems to work
[21:56] <ali1234> what's wrong with it is you can't get rid of it
[21:56] <AlanBell> and you can grab the shadow outside the window
[21:56] <ali1234> and it draws over the window contents
[21:56] <ali1234> i don't use the default theme
[21:57] <ali1234> i use one with sensible sized window borders and proper scrollbars
[21:59] <jacobw> oops
[22:06] <czajkowski> AlanBell: ping
[22:11] <ali1234> gtk sure takes a long time to build
[22:16] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[22:16] <AlanBell> epic netsplits
[22:17] <czajkowski> AlanBell: whay time are you going tomorrow at
[22:20] <speedxcore> can you use ubuntu one with linux mint or debian?
[22:29] <exobuzz> http://askubuntu.com/questions/10271/is-running-ubuntu-one-on-debian-possible
[22:29] <ali1234> that stuff is quite old
[22:29] <niknak_> does anybody know of any easy way to enable ctrl-alt-bspace to kill x in natty?
[22:30] <ali1234> !dontzap
[22:30] <ali1234> dunno if works in natty, i assume it does though?
[22:30] <exobuzz> as for linux mint, linux mint 10 is just maverick, so you should just be able to install/run it
[22:30] <exobuzz> (regarding to running ubuntu one)
[22:31] <ali1234> apparently the UO packages are in debian experimental now
[22:31] <ali1234> some of them anyway, dunno if it is enough to actually use it
[22:32] <ali1234> does anyone know how i'd add a gconf setting for the gripper thing?
[22:32] <niknak_> ah dontzap, now i remember. having a few crashy/freezy problems
[22:33] <ali1234> looks like it should be very very easy to add a setting that disables it on new windows
[23:28] <shauno> man it's quiet tonight
[23:47] <Frankiewizard> hello out there everyone in ubuntu land
[23:48] <Frankiewizard> waiting for the new 11.04
[23:48] <Frankiewizard> well thats it really
[23:49] <Frankiewizard> good night then