[00:05] <AlanBell> Pendulum: yup I think so, how are you?
[00:05] <Pendulum> tired
[00:05] <AlanBell> Aww
[00:06] <AlanBell> Wish you were here
[00:08] <matti> ;]
[00:11]  * AlanBell is perhaps a tiny bit pissed
[00:16] <Azelphur> Hmm, I'm having a fun technical conundrum with my new sky connection
[00:17] <Azelphur> I have a dynamic DNS which points to my external IP, all good
[00:17] <daftykins> right
[00:17] <Azelphur> And I use my router which just connects via their router with DHCP
[00:17] <daftykins> is it an amusing one? :>
[00:17] <Azelphur> so my real router's wan address is <IP_ADDRESS>, but my external address is obviously not xD
[00:17] <Azelphur> I need nat reflection for the external IP to work :x
[00:17] <daftykins> hahaha
[00:18] <daftykins> are you double NAT'ing 0o
[00:18] <Azelphur> wonder how I could get dd-wrt to nat reflect the dynamic IP that it knows nothing about lol
[00:18] <Azelphur> daftykins: no, and my port forwarding setup works.
[00:18] <Azelphur> (so I can access my stuff externally, but I can't access it internally because no NAT reflection :D)
[00:18] <hamitron> tracert it every 2 mins?
[00:19] <Azelphur> wat o.O
[00:19] <hamitron> traceroute
[00:19] <daftykins> you could just grep info from an IP whois service then code your own dyndns submitter? :D
[00:19] <daftykins> s/whois/check/
[00:20] <ali12341> you need to configure your router to use a ppp half bridge
[00:20]  * hamitron uses half bridge
[00:20] <ali12341> also don't access your local services through nat, go directly to the lan with avahi
[00:20] <Pendulum> AlanBell: possibly more than a tiny bit
[00:21] <Azelphur> ali12341: but I want there to be one address I can access the services internally or externally
[00:21] <ali12341> no
[00:21] <ali12341> just no
[00:21] <Azelphur> ...why not?
[00:21] <ali12341> use a hostname instead
[00:21] <hamitron> I do that with iptables on my router
[00:21] <Azelphur> ali12341: I do use a hostname
[00:22] <Azelphur> home.azelphur.com points at my home address :p
[00:22] <ali12341> also it sounds a lot like you have double nat
[00:22] <Azelphur> and that's what I use to access stuff
[00:22] <Azelphur> I don't have a double nat, the sky router is configured to DMZ the DD-WRT router
[00:22] <Azelphur> and my port forwards work.
[00:22] <ali12341> that's double nat
[00:22] <Azelphur> ok then :P
[00:23] <Azelphur> not sure how much I can do to fix that from a sky router
[00:23] <ali12341> configure it for half bridge
[00:23] <ali12341> it sucks but it's better than what you have
[00:23] <hamitron> if it does half-bridge?
[00:23] <ali12341> if it doesn't do half bridge then just hack it
[00:24] <hamitron> you could use DNAT on the router too
[00:24] <ali12341> so which router does your PC get DHCP from?
[00:25] <Azelphur> ali12341: dd-wrt
[00:25] <ali12341> and dd-wrt is default gateway?
[00:26] <hamitron> overheating_comp<->dd-wrt<->sky_crap<->WWW?
[00:26] <ali12341> you have a few options actually
[00:27] <ali12341> you can dmz dd-wrt then put the servers behind it, then connect PCs to sky router
[00:27] <ali12341> echo home.azelphur.com <IP_ADDRESS> >> /etc/hosts
[00:27] <ali12341> then it should work
[00:27] <hamitron> I'd make the dmz in front of the dd-wrt
[00:28] <ali12341> you can also do that in the DNS settings on dd-wrt
[00:28] <ali12341> if you keep the PCs behind it and it runs DNS
[00:28] <ali12341> half bridge is going to be the simplest though
[00:29] <ali12341> even better just get the router firmware and reverse the password algorithm
[00:29] <hamitron> or you could set the dd-wrt to mangle tcp/ip packets \o/
[00:30] <hamitron> I like iptables, and not messing with local dns :)
[00:33] <hamitron> ali12341: what is wrong with half bridging?
[00:33] <ali12341> it's a nasty hack
[00:33] <daftykins> NAT's a hack too :>
[00:34] <ali12341> yeah
[00:34] <ali12341> half bridging isn't as bad as a double nat
[00:34] <daftykins> lol i was right about double NAT then, nasty
[00:35] <hamitron> I have half bridging... then double nat behind that :/
[00:35] <daftykins> D:
[00:35] <hamitron> just cuz I can
[00:35] <daftykins> you guys are just masochistic
[00:35] <hamitron> ;/
[00:35] <daftykins> i remember being on Quakenet, some guy coming on asking about setting it up
[00:36] <daftykins> me saying he'd have to use one subnet on the first device, and another on the second
[00:36] <daftykins> e.g. 192.168.0.x and 192.168.1.x
[00:36] <daftykins> and he steadfastly refused to accept that as truth, hurled 'verbal' abuse and then left
[00:36] <daftykins> :>
[00:36] <daftykins> good times
[00:36] <ali12341> i don't get it
[00:37] <daftykins> more of a personal story thing really
[00:37] <daftykins> no actual joke
[00:37] <hamitron> what happens if you have 4 network cards, each on a seperate <IP_ADDRESS>/24 network?
[00:37] <daftykins> just amazed at the stubborness of some to accept fact at times
[00:38] <daftykins> well the level below still needs to be on a different subnet so it knows where to route packets
[00:38] <ali12341> maybe you just didn't understand the problem
[00:38] <daftykins> if so i had others in agreeance with me, equally confused
[00:38] <daftykins> :)
[00:38] <ali12341> Azelphur: what router is it? d-link?
[00:38] <daftykins> wow i actually countered your attitude politely \o/
[00:38] <daftykins> self high-five
[00:40] <Azelphur> ali12341: I can't etc/hosts an android phone and a bunch of PCs XD
[00:40] <Azelphur> ali12341: it's the stock sky one, not sure what
[00:41] <daftykins> black, curved front?
[00:41] <Azelphur> yup
[00:41] <hamitron> Azelphur: why you need to host loads of stuff?
[00:41] <daftykins> netgear DG834G rebranded as a DG934G
[00:41] <daftykins> if it's the one my house had from tenants getting sky :o
[00:41] <Azelphur> hamitron: I have an XMPP server I use for all my chat, so what ever device I'm on, where ever I am, it needs to just work :D
[00:42] <hamitron> why not put the XMPP server in front of the dd-wrt?
[00:42] <Azelphur> uhh, because then I'd have my entire PC in front of the dd-wrt
[00:42] <Azelphur> and then dd-wrt would be pointless
[00:43] <hamitron> ah
[00:43] <daftykins> why are you even running a second router D:
[00:43] <Azelphur> daftykins: because sky T&C's :P
[00:43] <Azelphur> and DD-WRT doesn't suck
[00:43] <hamitron> install another network card in your PC?
[00:44] <Azelphur> getting crazy now people xD
[00:44] <Azelphur> I just need nat reflection to work
[00:44] <Azelphur> then everything works fine
[00:44] <hamitron> then you can be be in front and behind at same time ;)
[00:44] <ali12341> nat reflection you seek is up to the sky router
[00:44] <daftykins> ^
[00:44] <Azelphur> I see
[00:45] <daftykins> can you not use one of those sites to find the real user+pass on the router
[00:45] <daftykins> and then transplant a normal ADSL router / mod that one to official netgear firmware?
[00:45] <Azelphur> daftykins: I can, but I was kinda hoping to stick to the sky router just for the lulz
[00:45] <ali12341> here is the instructions for the newest router they ship: http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/search/label/DSL2640S
[00:45] <daftykins> :>
[00:45] <Azelphur> yea
[00:45] <ali12341> if you want to keep the sky router, then obtain a root login and reconfigure it's firewall
[00:45] <Azelphur> I guess I'll get a modem and do that *shrug*
[00:46] <daftykins> i've still got one of the DG934G's at my house
[00:46] <daftykins> i was going to pinch it and mod it into a normal DG834G for the lulz
[00:46] <Azelphur> anyone recommend a nice stand alone modem
[00:46] <ali12341> they don't ship those any more
[00:46] <Azelphur> to go into the wan port on my router :D
[00:46] <daftykins> yes, i bought a draytek one a bit ago
[00:46] <daftykins> draytek vigor 220 USB or something
[00:47] <daftykins> it was about £40 from dabs
[00:47] <hamitron> safecom asr8000
[00:47] <ali12341> why do you need a modem?
[00:47] <hamitron> ;)
[00:47] <ali12341> reflash the sky router to be a modem
[00:47] <daftykins> i've got it on a client's smoothwall PC
[00:47] <daftykins> <o/ \o>
[00:47] <ali12341> if your're not going to use it
[00:47] <daftykins> mod it to the stock netgear and you can make it a modem only using a hidden page
[00:47] <ali12341> i bet it has half bridge anyway
[00:47] <Azelphur> ali12341: because I want to keep the sky router so that when there's an issue with the connection sky can't say fuck you go away :D
[00:48]  * hamitron would just use the sky router in default setup, then use magic on the dd-wrt
[00:48] <Azelphur> ali12341: so I don't want to root/low level mess with the sky router so that I can just plug it in when there's a problem and say look the lines broken
[00:49] <ali12341> your easiest way is to just change the DNS in dd-wrt
[00:49] <ali12341> to point to dd-wrt instead of the sky router
[00:49] <Azelphur> I need a modem so that my cable router can do ADSL :)
[00:49] <Azelphur> and it needs to be ADSL2+
[00:49] <hamitron> point to his comp you mean ali12341
[00:49] <ali12341> no
[00:49] <Azelphur> I'm starting to not like this sky router anyway
[00:49] <hamitron> his comp is hosting the service....
[00:50] <Azelphur> Every time I get a disconnect for rate adaption, it says all web pages are 404
[00:50] <Azelphur> so the router is clearly doing something it shouldn't with my web traffic
[00:50] <ali12341> Azelphur: yeah that is pretty typical these days in crap ISp routers
[00:50] <Azelphur> what's the purpose?
[00:50] <ali12341> to stop people ringing up tech support
[00:50] <ali12341> same as with everything
[00:51] <Azelphur> haha
[00:52] <Azelphur> so that makes me want to get rid of their router rather rapidly
[00:52] <Azelphur> ADSL2+ Modem it is :D
[00:53] <hamitron> you could go with a proper isp? ;)
[00:54] <Azelphur> hamitron: what's ISP have to do with my internal hardware setup?
[00:54] <hamitron> would let you use a normal router
[00:54] <ali12341> well you could get an ISP that tells you the password
[00:54] <Azelphur> hamitron: I can use a normal router :D
[00:54] <Azelphur> and I can get the password
[00:54] <Azelphur> and that's what I plan to do
[00:54] <Azelphur> I just need an ADSL2+ modem to connect to it, suggestions? :D
[00:54] <ali12341> or you could listen to me and just add a DNS entry for your hostname
[00:55] <Azelphur> ali12341: how/where?
[00:55] <ali12341> in dd-wrt, /etc/hosts
[00:55] <Azelphur> ohhh
[00:55] <Azelphur> that works :)
[00:56] <ali12341> then any requests for home.azelphur.com go to <IP_ADDRESS> and you can configure dd-wrt to handle them however you want
[00:56] <ali12341> http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/DNSMasq_-_DNS_for_your_local_network_-_HOWTO
[00:56] <AlanBell> Pendulum: that is just about possible, yet
[00:56] <AlanBell> yes
[00:58] <ali12341> Azelphur: looks like you need to do a few things, first is to determine if dd-wrt already runs a dns server
[00:59] <Azelphur> confusing \o/
[00:59] <Azelphur> ali12341: I kinda wanna be rid of the router because of the weird HTTP Proxy thing.
[01:00] <ali12341> you can probably kill that with firewall
[01:00] <ali12341> it will be done by DNS mangling
[01:00] <Azelphur> would be easier to just get an ADSL2+ modem and remove the sky router from the equation
[01:01] <ali12341> so tell dd-wrt to skip over the DNS it gets from DHCP (which point to the sky router) and go direct to ISP DNS
[01:01] <ali12341> sure if you like spending money
[01:01] <Azelphur> I'm cool with spending money :D
[01:01] <hamitron> hehe
[01:01] <Azelphur> so recommendations on an ADSL2+ Modem?
[01:02] <ali12341> i dunno i would never use a modem
[01:02] <Azelphur> something without all the bells and whistles :p
[01:02] <ali12341> modems are identical to routers but with only 1 ethernet port on them
[01:02] <ali12341> they run almost identical firmware
[01:03] <Azelphur> I see
[01:03] <Azelphur> my usual setup is to have a dumb modem and my router dials PPPoE
[01:03] <Azelphur> is that sane?
[01:03] <ali12341> no
[01:03] <Azelphur> :(
[01:04] <ali12341> why have two boxes when you can have one?
[01:04]  * popey tickles AlanBell
[01:04]  * AlanBell tickles popey
[01:04] <Azelphur> ali12341: the DD-WRT router with an ethernet port can't connect to ADSL?
[01:04] <popey> zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[01:04] <AlanBell> and finds typing challenging
[01:04] <hamitron> ali12341: why have 1 when you can have 2?
[01:04] <hamitron> ;)
[01:04] <popey> ditto
[01:05] <ali12341> Azelphur: so get a new router then
[01:05] <AlanBell> the keys are not quite where I left them
[01:05] <popey> bed
[01:05] <popey> nn
[01:05] <AlanBell> nn popey
[01:05] <hamitron> is there a dd-wrt with dsl?
[01:05] <Azelphur> ali12341: I don't want to replace my £120 Linksys WRT610N running DD-WRT
[01:05] <Azelphur> also ^
[01:05] <AlanBell> never have I found tab complete on the word popey useful before
[01:05] <ali12341> Azelphur: "router dials PPPoE" is same as half bridge btw
[01:05] <Azelphur> cool :D
[01:05] <ali12341> it's fairly rubbish
[01:06] <Azelphur> whys it rubbish?
[01:06] <ali12341> because you have two routers that can mess up instead of one
[01:07] <hamitron> another way to look at it, each router has less "load" on it
[01:07] <Azelphur> ali12341: if it's a Router with an ADSL modem built in, isn't it 2 devices in one case anyway?
[01:07] <hamitron> ;/
[01:07] <ali12341> Azelphur: no
[01:07] <ali12341> routers are 1 chip
[01:07] <Azelphur> the reason I bought a cable router was so that when I switch connection type, what ever connection I switch to it should work fine on the ethernet port
[01:07] <Azelphur> so a connection switch = swap out the modem
[01:08] <Azelphur> and at the same time I keep a high powered modem which is capable of handling the heavy load at my house
[01:08] <Azelphur> high powered router*
[01:08] <Azelphur> A shitty £20 netgear works fine if you've got 1-2 people on it
[01:08] <ali12341> a DSL router can use ethernet as WAN too if it runs dd-wrt
[01:08] <Azelphur> but when you stick 10 people on a £20 netgear you have a problem
[01:08] <Azelphur> fun
[01:09] <ali12341> router troubles from multiple users are caused by nat conntracking
[01:09] <Azelphur> no, they are caused by load :p
[01:09] <ali12341> which won't be a problem for half bridge, cos the modem won't see the nat
[01:09] <ali12341> no, really
[01:10] <ali12341> for a modem there is no difference between 1 http download saturating the pipe and lots of connections doing same
[01:10] <ali12341> because everything is encapsulated in ppp packets before it hits the modem
[01:10] <AlanBell> night night all
[01:10] <Azelphur> ali12341: and now you understand why my setup is the way it is :D
[01:10] <Azelphur> one high powered router to take the load
[01:10] <Azelphur> and a modem.
[01:11] <ali12341> a modem which does nothing...
[01:11] <Azelphur> exactly
[01:11] <Azelphur> apart from provide the ADSL bridge
[01:11] <ali12341> and could just as easily be in the router
[01:11] <AlanBell>   /43
[01:11] <AlanBell> nah, didn't mean that
[01:12]  * AlanBell is too drunk to operate IRC
[01:12] <Azelphur> ali12341: yea, but there arn't many decent ADSL routers, and as I said I wanted the portability to cable/wimax when it comes available in my area
[01:13] <ali12341> wrt610 isn't even that powerful, it's bcm4718
[01:13]  * hamitron recommends a proper comp as a router
[01:14] <ali12341> heh, you can over clock it
[01:14] <Azelphur> hamitron: I did that for a while but opted for something lower power
[01:14] <hamitron> atom?
[01:14] <Azelphur> it's pretty good for my house, it stays stable all the time :D
[01:15] <Azelphur> so yea now we've come to the conclusion my setup is somewhat sane xD
[01:15] <Azelphur> decent ADSL2+ Modems for the job?
[01:16] <ali12341> i disagree but w/e
[01:16] <Azelphur> ali12341: how would you do it?
[01:16] <ali12341> and i still think you should just fix it all with DNS
[01:17] <ali12341> i would get the cheapest dsl router on ebay that can run openwrt
[01:17] <ali12341> i wouldn't expect to pay more than £1
[01:18] <ali12341> but my internet can't go faster than 10mbit
[01:18] <ali12341> if i were you i would fix it in DNS with what i already had
[01:19] <Azelphur> ali12341: I could fix it up yea but I just don't like the sky router any more, the fact that they are messing with my web traffic makes me wonder what else they are messing with so I'd prefer to be on legit equipment :P
[01:19] <Azelphur> they violated my trust >:(
[01:21] <ali12341> it's a simple DNS trick they use
[01:21] <ali12341> if internet connection is down all hostnames resolve to the sky router
[01:21] <Azelphur> I get that :)
[01:22] <hamitron> so just a few DNS tweaks and something to set your dynamic dns service, jobs a good one?
[01:22] <ali12341> pretty much
[01:22] <ali12341> i would also firewall off their router incase there are backdoors or something
[01:22] <hamitron> i'd guess the dd-wrt already is
[01:22] <Azelphur> ali12341: or I could just get an ADSL2+ modem and not worry about it because it'd be gone :D
[01:23] <hamitron> Azelphur: apart from teh cost, you'd have to wait
[01:23] <ali12341> although if they want to mess with your traffic they will do it in their datacentre, not in the router
[01:23] <hamitron> not worth it :)
[01:23] <ali12341> if you don't trust their router how can you trust any part of their service?
[01:23] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[01:29] <ali12341> i just think if you buy a modem you'll end up with a different but equally annoying set of problems
[01:30] <ali12341> better the devil you know
[01:31] <hamitron> about the dns pointing to the router ali12341.....
[01:31] <hamitron> the internal ip of the router?
[01:31] <ali12341> how about it?
[01:31] <ali12341> yes
[01:32] <hamitron> so how do you then move the traffic from the router to a comp on the internal network?
[01:32] <ali12341> the nat does it
[01:32] <ali12341> because you can turn on reflection
[01:32] <ali12341> you don't point it to the internal ip
[01:32] <ali12341> you point it to the external ip
[01:33] <hamitron> ah, reflection is an option in linux?
[01:33] <ali12341> which is also internal on the next level of nat
[01:34] <hamitron> assume it is enabled similar to packet forwarding?
[01:34] <ali12341> no
[01:34] <ali12341> it's just about how you set up the firewall rules
[01:35] <hamitron> oh, so an arguement to iptables?
[01:35] <ali12341> no
[01:35] <ali12341> it's not an option
[01:35] <ali12341> it's a side effect of the whole way your firewall is configured
[01:36] <daftykins> sleeps for me
[01:36] <daftykins> later all o/
[01:36] <hamitron> ok
[01:36] <hamitron> mine doesn't
[01:36] <hamitron> :/
[01:38] <ali12341> http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/rdr.html
[01:38] <ali12341> also, split-horizon dns
[01:40] <hamitron> I've used Split-Horizon and Seperate network
[01:40] <ali12341> i am assuming that dd-wrt supports reflection by default and that it worked before with the old modem
[01:43] <hamitron> so reflection is RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination?
[01:43] <ali12341> if you;re using pf
[01:44] <hamitron> sounds hard to config
[01:44] <ali12341> linux uses netfilter
[01:45] <hamitron> so how would RDR-TO and NAT-TO Combination be done?
[01:46] <hamitron> or anything with redirecting traffic
[01:46] <ali12341> on iptables you would do something like this: http://www.zeroshell.net/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?p=655&sid=1aa52f098f1a0aeccd712827ee7739d9#655
[01:47] <ali12341> prerouting vs postrouting
[01:51] <hamitron> I'll have to give it another go sometime
[01:51] <hamitron> I tried this about 7 years ago and never got it working
[01:51] <hamitron> so just changed the dns
[01:51] <hamitron> :)
[01:51] <hamitron> didn't have the time to play
[01:51] <ali12341> changing the dns is prefered
[01:51] <hamitron> yeh
[01:52] <hamitron> but I wanted to learn iptables
[01:52] <ali12341> stuffing all LAN packets through a cheap router won't end well
[01:52] <hamitron> ;)
[01:52] <hamitron> well
[01:52] <hamitron> it will be a dell server
[01:53] <hamitron> I don't even rate my wrt54GL tbh
[01:53] <hamitron> I switched to it from a proper comp with 4 NIC, and the comp was loads better
[01:53] <ali12341> in what way?
[01:53] <hamitron> I find when i have friends round, can get lag spikes
[01:54] <hamitron> unless i am careful with the simultanious connections
[01:55] <hamitron> but suppose I maybe expect too much
[01:55] <hamitron> :)
[01:55] <ali12341> i've never had problems
[01:55] <hamitron> but for sure the 2.53ghz celeron beat the 200mhz router
[01:56] <hamitron> it handles 12 users ok if I stop the torrent server
[01:57] <ali12341> torrents are heavy on the router
[01:57] <hamitron> yeh
[01:57] <hamitron> torrents + 12 gamers = death
[01:57] <ali12341> 12 users will just be plain heavy on the bandwidth but the router should have no problems
[01:58] <hamitron> unless I have a full blown comp on the job
[01:58] <hamitron> ali12341: it gets upto 4000 connections
[01:58] <hamitron> :/
[01:59] <Azelphur> ali12341: I had a modem before
[01:59] <Azelphur> and I was 100% fine with it
[01:59] <Azelphur> but when I switched to sky my dad took the modem xD
[01:59] <Azelphur> so buying a new modem restores me to my old 100% working setup
[02:00] <hamitron> as it happens, the VIA C3 850mhz cpu comp was my router for a while too :)
[02:00] <hamitron> it was better than the wrt54gl
[02:01] <ali12341> with torrents, you need ram, not cpu
[02:01] <ali12341> because it opens so many connections
[02:01] <hamitron> well, suppose they had 256mb ram
[02:01] <ali12341> it fills the conntrack tables up
[02:01] <Azelphur> ali12341: yea, my router has shitloads of ram :D
[02:01] <hamitron> better than the router
[02:01] <ali12341> you can also tweak the kernel settings
[02:01] <Azelphur> It's a high spec router, we have multiple P2P users in the house :D
[02:01] <hamitron> wrt54gl has 32mb?
[02:02] <ali12341> some routers are configured to remember connections for 2 days after they close
[02:02] <ali12341> that's completely unnecessary
[02:02] <Azelphur> indeed XD
[02:02] <Azelphur> so back to my original idea does anyone know a nice ADSL2+ Modem? :D
[02:02] <shauno> Azelphur: when's the last time you had a problem where the real answer wasn't just "get your own place"  :p
[02:03] <Azelphur> I know it will work how I want because it worked how I want for the past 3 odd years with my old ISP XD
[02:03] <Azelphur> shauno: a long time :-(
[02:03] <hamitron> ali12341: is 3600 seconds too long for tcp?
[02:03] <ali12341> if the tables are filling up then probably
[02:04] <hamitron> they aren't now tbh, but they have in the past
[02:05] <ali12341> wrt54gl has only 16mb?
[02:05] <hamitron> says so
[02:06] <hamitron> max connections is 4096 anyway
[02:10] <hamitron> 23 days since the last long power cut
[02:11] <hamitron> should be getting another sometime soon ;/
[02:11] <hamitron> UPS is on its last legs too
[02:43] <hamitron> nn all o/
[02:58] <kaushal> hi
[02:58] <kaushal> what is unity in 11.04 ?
[02:58] <kaushal> is it a desktop ?
[04:58] <ball> Met a couple of Linux users at work today.
[04:58] <ball> That made me happy.
[05:37]  * ball wanders off in search of a cake.
[06:28] <shauno> cake \o/
[06:48] <MartijnVdS> cake = lie :(
[06:59] <shauno> noooo
[07:00] <shauno> heh, so I said that and my modem dropped.  spooky
[07:01] <MartijnVdS> the internet is trying to tell you something
[07:01] <shauno> glados is coming :/
[07:01] <MartijnVdS> shauno: http://www.aperturescience.com/glados@home/
[07:02] <shauno> trying to figure out how to stuff input into a running screen session.  it's fighting back :(
[07:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: screen -r ?
[07:04] <shauno> trying to do so from another script, so attaching it doesn't work
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> have the thing inside screen listen on a named pipe, write to that
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> mknod \o
[07:05] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[07:05] <shauno> tried that (mkfifo :p).  java appears to fail entirely on it
[07:06] <MartijnVdS> Well THERE's your problem :P
[07:06] <shauno> I know :/
[07:06] <shauno> minecrack strikes again
[07:07] <MartijnVdS> maybe tmux can do it?
[07:38]  * ball falls overf
[07:57] <shauno> well, getting somewhere finally.  ugly, ugly bash script but should stop me doing the same things over 'n over
[07:59] <shauno> you know you're making a mess when a script starts with: while getopts ":rsSpfbmaoOh" ...
[08:01] <kaushal> hi
[08:01] <kaushal> is gnome3 available in 11.04 ?
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> kaushal: Try entering that exact question in google, then hit "I'm feeling lucky"
[08:19] <kaushal> sure
[08:19] <kaushal> thanks MartijnVdS
[08:57] <shauno> http://paste.ubuntu.com/594753/  maybe the most productive thing I'll do at work all day
[08:57] <shauno> I'm almost proud of how ugly that is :)
[09:12] <kaushal> gammu --config usb1  --identify Error opening device, you don't have permissions.
[09:13] <kaushal> Any clue ?
[09:33] <Myrtti> what phone are you trying to connect kaushal?
[09:49] <kaushal> Myrtti: please give me a moment
[09:51] <AlanBell> ugh.  I forgot y'all are British and drink tea in little sips :P
[09:58] <shauno> heh.  I actually perfected this in ireland.  it's basically an entire nation of functional alcoholics.  very educational :)
[10:00] <czajkowski> lol
[10:01] <czajkowski> :D
[10:01] <czajkowski> AlanBell: rookie mistake, grab a can of coke first thing in the morning sorts you out
[10:02] <gordonjcp> shauno: Irn Bru, preferably a little warm and flat
[10:02] <gordonjcp> goes down quicker that way
[10:02] <shauno> I haven't seen irn bru here :/
[10:02] <gordonjcp> aww
[10:03] <gordonjcp> I guess coke would work, but it doesn't have enough caffeine
[10:03] <shauno> I did find it in the states, but severely underestimated what shipping would be on 24 glass bottles.  only made that mistake once
[10:03] <damian> and here is me with my 1st coffee of the day and its a decaf
[10:06] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:06] <damian> morning brobostigon
[10:07] <brobostigon> morning damian
[10:07] <AlanBell> czajkowski: did the boy make it home?
[10:12]  * brobostigon really needs to setup mumble again ready for tonight,
[10:13]  * AlanBell connects to mumble
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> I really need to go out and buy a proper headset
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> You know what.. I'm going to do that NOW :)
[10:14] <AlanBell> yeah, cheap one will do just fine
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> atm I have none
[10:14]  * danfish has to go to a "dinner party" tonight. Dreadful concept :(
[10:15] <shauno> headset is pretty much mandatory here, thanks to someone's bright idea of sticking the microphone 1" away from the fans in what's a rather hot laptop :/
[10:15] <danfish> morning all
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> danfish: feign illness
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> shauno: yeah I have the same problem.. also, even on the lowest volume setting the mic picks up sound from the speakears
[10:15] <danfish> MartijnVdS: I won't need to tomorrow - the cook tonight is dreadful
[10:15] <brobostigon> good morning danfish
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> danfish: oh you're cooking?
[10:16] <MartijnVdS> :P
[10:16] <danfish> haha - no, my mother in law
[10:17] <jonsaint> hi all. anyone about to help
[10:17] <danfish> the only consolation is I'm taking round their laptop refurbished with ubuntu :)
[10:17] <danfish> !ask
[10:18] <jonsaint> ok. i got a no entry sign at the top of my screen and the update manager wont update. i dont know whats wrong with it.
[10:18] <danfish> jonsaint: lots of people around in various states of hangover :)
[10:19] <danfish> is there an error message?
[10:19] <brobostigon> jonsaint: does updating manually with "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" still work?
[10:22] <jonsaint> il try it
[10:23] <jonsaint> e: encountered a section with no package: header
[10:24] <jonsaint> then it says something about a problem with ergelist
[10:25] <brobostigon> !info ergelist
[10:25] <brobostigon> !info ergelist natty
[10:26] <jonsaint> so what does this mean??
[10:26] <shauno> most likely mergelist, which is internal to dpkg
[10:27] <jonsaint> everything was working fine then all of a sudden it happened
[10:29] <shauno> would it be possible to paste the entire output of 'sudo apt-get update' onto pastebin?  the mergelist message isn't the fault, it's a symptom.
[10:29] <shauno> !pastebin
[10:31] <jonsaint> how do i do this?? im a fairly new user to ubuntu
[10:31] <shauno> if you open paste.ubuntu.com, it'll give you a big textbox to paste into it.  just copy & paste, and hit submit
[10:32] <shauno> it'll just let us read the entire error message
[10:33] <jonsaint> ok ive done it
[10:33] <shauno> okay, now give us the address of the new page it sent you to so we can see it :)
[10:33] <jonsaint> the http bit?
[10:34] <shauno> ah, no worries, I found http://paste.ubuntu.com/594774/
[10:34] <jonsaint> thats it
[10:34] <shauno> hm, I thought there'd be more there :/
[10:35] <jonsaint> thats all there was when i clicked on the no entry sign
[10:35] <danfish> ah, knackered merge list
[10:36] <shauno> yeah.  I was expecting to see it complain about junk / invalid characters at line such & such
[10:36] <danfish> try sudo rm /var/lib/apt/lists/* -vf then sudo apt-get update
[10:37] <jonsaint> 1 sec then
[10:38] <jonsaint> woo hoo! superb!
[10:38] <jonsaint> guys i dont know how to thank you enough! it worked.
[10:39] <danfish> :)
[10:39] <jonsaint> well im outta here. im in the middle of moving house lol
[10:39] <danfish> \o
[10:42] <shauno> heh, I didn't know these things were safe to nuke.  thanks for stepping in before I went digging to see why it didn't like it :)
[10:44] <danfish> the nuclear option is sometimes the only option ;)
[10:45] <danfish> (unless your in a earthquake zone) <--- ?too topical
[10:46] <damian>  Ive got really slow uploads 300-400mins from 64bit Ubuntu 10.10 to youtube, yet the same video on Win7 flies up 80mins. Any ideas?
[11:04] <DJones> Don't you just love it when your wife says can you install ubuntu on her new laptop, she hates Windows :)
[11:04] <shauno> no idea mine has a macbook ;)
[11:05] <shauno> (add commas to taste)
[11:06] <DJones> Heh, mine got put off windows a couple of years ago and she used ubuntu on her old laptop for a couple of years, now she's got a new one, she's spent a week with win 7 and hates it
[11:12] <shauno> surveying my train station to see what impact next minecraft patch will have.  I think I'm getting off almost scott-free
[11:24] <Myrtti> well, that was productive
[11:32]  * brobostigon blames gpulockup/hang on flash
[11:59] <Pendulum> hiya
[12:01] <brobostigon> good afternoon Pendulum
[12:05] <brobostigon> hmm, russell howards good news,clashes with the quiz, :(
[12:07] <kvarley> brobostigon: iPlayer
[12:08] <brobostigon> kvarley: yes, only solution.
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> What time is the quiz again?
[12:10] <brobostigon> 21:00
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: your time or mine ;)
[12:10] <brobostigon> i think.
[12:10] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: mine.
[12:14] <brobostigon> anyone around to help me test mumble, and get it set right, please.
[12:14] <HazRPG> \o
[12:14] <brobostigon> good fternoon HazRPG :)
[12:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm?
[12:14] <Pendulum> i can be in about 30 seconds
[12:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: whats up with mumble?
[12:14] <Pendulum> brobostigon: ^^
[12:14] <Pendulum> HazRPG: I think he's talking about his own set up
[12:14] <HazRPG> brobostigon: also, good afternoon :)
[12:14] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i just cant get the sound setup right.
[12:15] <HazRPG> brobostigon: oh
[12:15] <HazRPG> Pendulum: indeed
[12:15] <HazRPG> brobostigon: does things just sound wrong, or not the right levels?
[12:15] <HazRPG> brobostigon: or own server?
[12:16] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i am using the server we used for the globaljam, and i cant seem to get the voice detection settings right,
[12:16] <HazRPG> brb a second, just going to move back to my office/computer room (only just woke up and hopped onto laptop to see whats up :))
[12:16] <brobostigon> :)
[12:16] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah ok, gimmie a moment to run downstairs :)
[12:17]  * HazRPG presses F6
[12:17] <brobostigon> HazRPG: ok, :)
[12:18] <Pendulum> brobostigon: I'll also be on in a sec
[12:18] <brobostigon> Pendulum: ok, :)
[12:20] <HazRPG> man I love ssh/irssi/vps :D
[12:20] <brobostigon> :)
[12:20] <HazRPG> how I lived without, I have NO IDEA!
[12:20] <HazRPG> brobostigon: right, mumble...
[12:21] <brobostigon> HazRPG: :)
[12:21] <MartijnVdS> \o HazRPG
[12:23] <popey> $MORNING
[12:24] <brobostigon> hangover central popey ?
[12:24] <popey> not really, no
[12:24] <brobostigon> :)
[12:24] <popey> just nice lie in :)
[12:37] <danfish> lucky sod :)
[12:39] <Pendulum> has anyone seen AlanBell this morning? he'd be another on my candidates for hangover today
[12:39] <Pendulum> s/this morning/today
[12:41] <HazRPG> http://www.youtube.com/html5
[12:41] <HazRPG> brobostigon: new commodore: http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_C64.aspx
[12:42] <HazRPG> woah no way! The new commodores come with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS!!!
[12:50] <AlanBell> hi Pendulum
[12:50] <Pendulum> AlanBell: how's your head?
[12:50] <AlanBell> fineish
[12:50] <AlanBell> now
[12:54] <Romeo_> Hi guys have a quick question regarding linux/ubuntu, is it true that your isp cant be tracked? what im asking is can my isp see what im doing? i dont have nothing to hide but i dont like the idea of being tracked, i know they can track you with windows but someone told me that you cant get tracked on linux not sure if its true
[12:54] <Romeo_> #ubuntu
[12:55] <AlanBell> Romeo_: your ISP isn't interested
[12:55] <Romeo_> thanx but that doesnt answer my question :)
[12:55] <AlanBell> doesn't make much difference what operating system you are using, if you want things to be secure use encryption such as a VPN or tor
[12:56] <HazRPG> brobostigon: straight from dropbox wiki about headless: http://wiki.dropbox.com/TipsAndTricks/TextBasedLinuxInstall
[12:57] <Romeo_> how do i use vpn encrytion?
[12:57] <AlanBell> !vpn
[12:57] <AlanBell> it creates a secure tunnel between where you are and somewhere else
[12:57] <AlanBell> you need to have the "somewhere else" bit arranged somehow
[12:58] <AlanBell> to an extent that just moves the problem as you can be tracked from the other end
[12:58] <AlanBell> but it does allow you to be in an insecure network such as a conference wireless, and VPN to home, and to all intents and purposes you will appear to be at home
[12:59] <AlanBell> !tor
[12:59] <AlanBell> tor is how to do anonymity properly
[12:59] <AlanBell> personally I can't be bothered
[13:27] <HazRPG> brobostigon: hmm, everything sound like they're talking in alien :S
[13:27] <HazRPG> hang on closing mumble
[13:28] <HazRPG> brobostigon: back in now
[13:28] <HazRPG> think its fixed :D
[13:28] <brobostigon> :)
[13:29]  * brobostigon has garlic sausage sandwiches and ginger beer.
[13:29] <HazRPG> \o/
[13:30] <brobostigon> oh, and sausage rolls,
[13:30] <brobostigon> :)
[13:30] <HazRPG> nom
[13:31] <HazRPG> aww, everyone's mute/deafened on mumble... did I scare everyone off?
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: with your northernness, you mean? :P
[13:32] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: apparently!
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> (I'll always remember "Lots of planets have a North!" :))
[13:32] <HazRPG> heh who said that :P?
[13:33] <brobostigon> HazRPG: i just dont want everyone to hear my munching
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some Doctor :)
[13:33] <dutchie> ooh, that's tonight, isn't it
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: next week
[13:33] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :P
[13:33] <HazRPG> brobostigon: ah, that makes sense
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: Eurovision song contest is tonight
[13:34] <dutchie> MartijnVdS: i meant the ubuntu-uk quiz, not dr who
[13:34] <dutchie> :)
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> dutchie: ah
[13:34] <dutchie> the mumble chatter reminded me
[13:34]  * MartijnVdS needs to set up mutter again on the laptop
[13:58] <Myrtti> queue queue queue queue
[14:00] <brobostigon> :(
[14:00] <popey> pip pip
[14:01] <brobostigon> meep meep
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> go go gadget?
[14:04]  * HazRPG wonders if the newest version of chrome tackles the flash problem...
[14:04]  * HazRPG along with the "I don't think I'm default" issue from the previous update
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> hmm... micro-sdhc 32GB is cheap
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> and I'm running out of space on the 8G in my phone :|
[14:05] <HazRPG> :o
[14:05] <HazRPG> music + pics?
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: music mostly, but some photos as well
[14:06] <HazRPG> shock horror flash still doesn't understand how to do fullscreen
[14:07] <HazRPG> although seems the "haha I'm dumb and don't know I'm default" issue has been fixed \o/
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> Full screen works fine in chromium for me
[14:07] <MartijnVdS> on intel
[14:07] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: bah
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> *\o/* intel
[14:08] <HazRPG> nvidia for teh lose :(
[14:08] <HazRPG> (again!)
[14:08]  * MartijnVdS stopped buying nvidia ages ago
[14:08] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: does intel release their code???
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: intel is all-open
[14:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I technically did, this is just the same graphics card from like... erm... ancient times lol (8800GTS)
[14:09] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Wow.. weren't those carved from rocks? :)
[14:09] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Then why does their audio drives suck :P? (Too many connections!) according to ubuntu
[14:10] <HazRPG> drivers*
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> Intel HDA? That's probably the codec chip that's badly supported
[14:10] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: tis :(
[14:10] <MartijnVdS> that was fixed on my laptop somewhere between maverick and natty
[14:10] <HazRPG> every so often, sounds turn "alien" on this PC
[14:11] <MartijnVdS> no no no, every so often, you turn human :P
[14:12] <HazRPG> :P
[14:13] <KrimZon> does anyone know how to set up an ubuntu server to route between two networks on different interfaces?
[14:14] <hamitron> !forwarding
[14:14] <hamitron> !routing
[14:14] <hamitron> grrrr
[14:15] <KrimZon> I feel I'm missing a checklist of things - it was working and I changed other stuff and it broke
[14:15] <AlanBell> you need to flip a flag in /proc somewhere
[14:15] <KrimZon> I did that
[14:15] <AlanBell> the ipv4forward thing?
[14:15] <KrimZon> I get Destination Net Unreachable from my ISP rather than the router
[14:15] <KrimZon> yeah
[14:16] <hamitron> got the routes setup?
[14:16] <KrimZon> I think that's what I don't have set up, and don't know where to set them up so that they'll stick
[14:16] <KrimZon> or where they were set up originally
[14:16] <hamitron> oh, do you need NAT?
[14:17] <KrimZon> ahh, the routes are present but don't have a gateway specified
[14:19] <KrimZon> I tried setting the gateway lines in /etc/network/interfaces to the router's IP, but that doesn't seem to work
[14:19] <hamitron> so you have a router performing NAT, then a linux router you are trying to setup behind that?
[14:20] <KrimZon> no nat
[14:20] <KrimZon> oh, yes, the router is performing nat but that's not the one I'm concerned with
[14:20] <KrimZon> it's what you asked if it was
[14:21] <hamitron> yeh
[14:21] <hamitron> I was just confirming you have some form of NAT to get to the WW
[14:21] <hamitron> WWW*
[14:21] <hamitron> :)
[14:22] <KrimZon> it's basically ISP - NAT - Network 1 - Ubuntu Server - Network 2
[14:22] <Azelphur> Hmm, Apparently last night I kept on reconnecting due to excess flood :(
[14:22] <hamitron> the computers on network 1 need 2 gateways
[14:23] <KrimZon> network 2 is what I can't ping into or out from
[14:23] <hamitron> to know where to send packets to get back to network 2
[14:23] <KrimZon> how do I set that up?
[14:23] <hamitron> erm, iirc, route
[14:23] <damian> Anyone know why uploads to Youtube are so slow on Ubuntu compared to Windows 7?
[14:23] <KrimZon> on the ubuntu server?
[14:23] <Azelphur> on freenode I'm on too many channels when I connect I get excess flooded haha
[14:24] <KrimZon> and does route last between reboots and networking restarts?
[14:24] <hamitron> no
[14:24] <hamitron> !route
[14:25] <hamitron> there must be something on this
[14:25] <hamitron> !router
[14:25] <HazRPG> ooo crap... I has meeting in like half hr!
[14:25]  * HazRPG rushes around like a loony to get the place sorted out
[14:26] <hamitron> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/howto-add-permanent-static-routes-in-ubuntu.html
[14:26] <czajkowski> Aloha
[14:26] <KrimZon> ahh, thanks :)
[14:27] <czajkowski> popey: fun night ?
[14:30] <hamitron> krimzon, 3 network cards are easier to config
[14:31] <hamitron> imo
[14:31] <KrimZon> yeah, they can just be bridged and it'd just be one big network
[14:31] <hamitron> you can have a dedicated forward facing NIC
[14:31] <hamitron> so the 2 networks behind just need the default gateway
[14:32] <hamitron> then can NAT on outgoing for the forwarding facing
[14:32] <hamitron> forward facing NIC I mean
[14:38] <hamitron> krimzon, I think this is a better source to use for reference http://www.linuxhomenetworking.com/wiki/index.php/Quick_HOWTO_:_Ch03_:_Linux_Networking#How_to_Configure_Two_Gateways
[14:38] <KrimZon> hmm, my router appears to have vanished following being given some routing information
[14:39] <hamitron> it isn't the router or ubuntu server you will need to play with
[14:40] <hamitron> you will feel like headbutting a wall for a while, but it is rewarding once done
[14:40] <KrimZon> oh, I know
[14:40] <KrimZon> I must've set everything's gateway to the router
[14:40] <KrimZon> they never properly explain that sort of thing
[14:41] <KrimZon> so I'm left wondering what's meant to point to what
[14:41] <hamitron> that last page I gave is a wall of text and knowledge
[14:41] <hamitron> sorta wish i had had that when i was trying this
[14:42] <hamitron> my networking book doesn't explain as fully, to save space
[14:42] <hamitron> :/
[14:43] <hamitron> 1 down....
[14:43] <hamitron> ;)
[14:44] <KrimZon> that was the server
[14:44] <KrimZon> it just stopped responding
[14:44] <hamitron> :/
[14:44] <KrimZon> so, if I don't put this on the server, how do I get it to all the clients?
[14:45] <KrimZon> I should just go out to B&Q and fit some ethernet sockets
[14:45] <KrimZon> then my server can go downstairs next to the router
[14:45] <hamitron> or could fit another network card
[14:46] <hamitron> tbh, it can be done
[14:46] <hamitron> without all that
[14:46] <hamitron> just need to keep reading and build on that knowledge
[14:47] <hamitron> I was lazy and fitted more network cards
[14:48] <KrimZon> network cards won't help me, cause the server has to be away from the phone socket
[14:52] <hamitron> what? you don't give up all cosmetic considerations for your computers? :-o ;)
[14:53] <KrimZon> I don't want a wire trailing freely down the stairs, and can't be bothered oking it with the landlord to fit it properly
[14:53] <KrimZon> anyway, it still seems like I'm missing some information, cause it froze again
[14:54] <KrimZon> it's like "give *something* a network, a mask, a gateway and an interface
[14:55] <KrimZon> except that routing always involves more than one of those, and more than one possible something
[14:58] <KrimZon> hmm, looks like I need to reset another router
[14:58] <dutchie> hmm
[14:59] <dutchie> oh, actually
[14:59] <dutchie> no point filing a bug on "legacy" gnome2 interface
[14:59] <dutchie> :(
[14:59] <hamitron> why?
[14:59] <hamitron> gnome2 <3 ;)
[14:59] <dutchie> well it's going away isn't it
[14:59] <dutchie> unlikely to get fixed
[14:59] <hamitron> :/
[14:59] <dutchie> and it was only a minor thihg
[15:00] <hamitron> I'll be using gnome2 for at least another 18 months
[15:00] <hamitron> :/
[15:01] <hamitron> waiting for ubuntu 12.04 to be released and major bugs be fixed
[15:01] <hamitron> :D
[15:01] <KrimZon> I'm waiting for the cpu to idle near zero in kde
[15:02] <hamitron> KrimZon: I think I may have to setup what you are doing for fun
[15:02] <KrimZon> stupid O2 box!
[15:02] <hamitron> :/
[15:02] <KrimZon> I changed its IP address and now it's got lost
[15:02] <kaushal> hi
[15:02] <kaushal> is there a way to use Outlook 2007 Calendar in lightning ?
[15:02] <hamitron> afternoon
[15:03] <kaushal> I am using Thunderbird
[15:03] <KrimZon> hamitron: will you also swear at an o2 box?
[15:03] <kaushal> on 10.10
[15:03] <hamitron> KrimZon: you'd never see me swear.... ;)
[15:03] <KrimZon> oh wait, it's the other router that's the gateway - that might have the routes in
[15:04] <hamitron> but I am too lazy to move and change cabling, so gonna have to use vmware
[15:05] <KrimZon> yay, that works
[15:06] <exobuzz> oh dear :/ http://digitizor.com/2011/04/15/crashed-unity-canonical-study/
[15:07] <hamitron> kaushal: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/faq.html#outlook
[15:10] <KrimZon> I'm skeptical about unity
[15:10] <hamitron> exobuzz: it would be 6 out of 12 if I tried
[15:10] <hamitron> ;)
[15:10] <exobuzz> the email it links to has a lot of other detail that to me doesn't read well for usability
[15:11] <KrimZon> mostly because it's meant to be simpler but apps now minimize to a bunch of different places depending on their type
[15:11] <exobuzz> im going to switch to unity now to test it since its been a week or so
[15:11] <KrimZon> I ought to try it again just in case
[15:12] <hamitron> i just refuse to accept change
[15:12] <hamitron> so no point at this stage
[15:12] <hamitron> ;)
[15:12] <hamitron> I'm good till 2013
[15:12] <hamitron> and I'm told the world will end before then
[15:13] <hamitron> or something major is gonna happen
[15:15] <exobuzz> ok. so here's one thing - what use are icons this size on a non touchscreen desktop http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/unity.png
[15:17] <exobuzz> the search box, too is massive - i know i have bad eyesight but not that bad ;-)
[15:18] <KrimZon> yeah, it's kind of annoying the amount of empty space there is
[15:18] <exobuzz> i can see how the ubuntu software centre was mistaken for the recycle bin or something too
[15:18] <KrimZon> it feels like there's no definite boundary between places
[15:19] <exobuzz> (in the tests)
[15:19] <DJones> They are a bit big, I've been wondering if there is a way of getting smaller icons myself
[15:19] <exobuzz> you can make the unity icons on the dock smaller, but not these ones it seems
[15:19] <DJones> Not so much for the shortcuts icons, but for the left menu bar
[15:19] <exobuzz> i dont actually wanta  full screen of icons. on my joggler yes, on this desktop no
[15:19] <exobuzz> i nkow i only ever b*tch about unity on this channel too. sorry but
[15:20] <exobuzz> heh
[15:20] <DJones> exobuzz: Have you gpt a link for how to change the icon size in the dock?
[15:20] <exobuzz> DJones, install compiz settings manager and you can do it from the unity prefs there
[15:20] <ali12341> krimzon it's supposed to feel like that, it's all supposed to be unified and integrated
[15:20] <DJones> exobuzz: Thanks I'll give that a go
[15:21] <exobuzz> if i click top left, and get the search/shortcuts up, then full screen it, then click the top left it goes. when opened its not full screen
[15:21] <hamitron> krimzon, lookup "option static-routes" for the dhcpd server
[15:22] <exobuzz> cant even remember my last setting ?
[15:22] <exobuzz> if you click "more apps", that window is more useful than the shortcuts etc that first appears.
[15:23] <AlanBell> !info blueproximity
[15:25] <KrimZon> hmm
[15:25] <KrimZon> maybe it would be a good idea to use the ubuntu server for dhcp, to keep it all centralized
[15:27] <hamitron> krimzon, yeh
[15:28] <hamitron> at the very least you will need to serve dhcpd to the network not connected to the router
[15:29] <hamitron> also, dhcpd on your router may be limited
[15:43] <awilkins> /me is migrating South for the bunny festival
[15:53] <exobuzz> could someone else here using unity on natty, tell me whether gnome assistive technologies "simulate second click" is working at all ?
[15:53] <exobuzz> i mean please could ;-)
[15:53] <exobuzz> doesn't work here, and I wanted to check if it is just me.
[15:53] <ali12341> how do i test it?
[15:53] <exobuzz> not even to do a second click on the desktop.
[15:54] <awilkins> So - royal wedding, tedious pile of rubbish, or shameful waste of money?
[15:55] <exobuzz> ali12341, load "assistive technologies" from unity, enable it and click "mouse accessibiliy" and enable simulate second click. should be that holding down left mouse "fills" the mouse pointer and then does a right mouse click
[15:55] <gord> awilkins, extra day off
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: yes, and ##politics-uk is that way -->
[15:55] <awilkins> Unity crashes too much for me, I'm forced to admit.
[15:56] <gord> when did you last try unity?
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> last week
[15:56] <gord> there really aren't many crashers left
[15:56] <exobuzz> if simulated second click isnt fgoing to work, then unity is going to be useless on the joggler or other single click touchscreens :(
[15:56] <awilkins> Beta on a live thumb on wednesday
[15:56] <ali12341> exobuzz: doesn't work for me
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> gord: does crash-and-autorestart count as a crash? :)
[15:56] <gord> and you filed your bugs?
[15:57] <ali12341> exobuzz: my install is a bit out of date though
[15:57] <gord> right now we are fixing crashers faster than they come in
[15:57] <exobuzz> ali12341, looks like they overlooked accessibility or its a known thing. i reported it anyway..
[15:57] <ali12341> bug number?
[15:57] <ali12341> i will update and confirm it
[15:57] <exobuzz> im sure anyone who relies on this for operating their pc aint going to be happy.
[15:57] <awilkins> OTOH, it's nice on my daughter netbook
[15:57] <exobuzz> ali12341, https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/762806
[15:58] <gord> accessibility wasn't overlooked, its just that accessibility is *huge* - hard to get it all done in six months
[15:58] <awilkins> This was weird display config - one dispaly on VGA, one on a VGA/displayport adaptor
[15:58] <ali12341> setting yourself an impossible time limit for a project sounds a little bit like overlooking to me
[15:59] <awilkins> Displayport adaptor on started working right and supporting all resolutions non-manually in last 2 months after kernel update
[15:59] <Pendulum> gord: IMO what was overlooked is that by saying it's okay for a default to be inaccessible (I know there's another option, but Unity is the default) says that users who need accessibility are 2nd class citizens. Which is not Unity developer's fault
[15:59] <exobuzz> gord, so, natty and unity just wont work then on single click touchscreens ?
[15:59] <ali12341> unity is fail on touchscreens because of hiding menus
[16:00] <awilkins> Before has to enable modes with xrandr
[16:00] <hamitron> unity is just fail ;)
[16:00] <ali12341> but that's by design so good luck getting it "fixed"
[16:00] <Pendulum> exobuzz: I've got a bug report where Mark comments that it's not meant for touchscreens (or that they're not within the target market or something similar)
[16:00] <awilkins> Bah, crapulous typing on phone keyboard
[16:00] <gord> sigh *goes and does other things*
[16:00] <exobuzz> Pendulum, interesting since the "look" is way off for a desktop machine imho. looks like touchscreen, but doesnt work on touchscreen. interesting one ;-)
[16:01] <ali12341> interesting is a nice way of putting it
[16:01] <awilkins> I definitely like the increase is screen estate on a netbook.
[16:01] <exobuzz> gord, are you a unity dev ?
[16:02] <Pendulum> exobuzz: that's my thought as well
[16:02] <hamitron> tbh, nothing wrong with inventing new things.... they just don't always work as expected....
[16:02] <exobuzz> Pendulum, got a link to the bug report where that is mentioned. id be interested in reading it
[16:04] <Pendulum> bug 739812
[16:04] <exobuzz> i want unity to be good and i want to like it. I just think some things are not how they should be, but it also feels that when it comes to ubuntu user experience, the users are the last to get any say :)
[16:04] <Pendulum> it's also where he mentions that Classic won't be around to fallback to in Oneiric
[16:05] <Pendulum> (which pretty much knocks me out of using Ubuntu)
[16:05] <andrew_> Anyone familiar with LDAP?
[16:05] <exobuzz> removing classic is worrying, especially if it's another 6 month slow that won;t be enough
[16:05] <Pendulum> (but that's because 2D Unity doesn't have a11y and I can't run 3D)
[16:05] <exobuzz> (enough to fix up any issues)
[16:06] <exobuzz> Mark Shuttleworth Why is this critical, Brian? - its pretty critical if you dont have a keyboard ;-)
[16:07] <exobuzz> but ok. high importance anyway
[16:07] <chambers> I need to reset my olcRootPw but it's not working and wondered if anyone had any experience with it?
[16:12] <DJones> exobuzz: Thanks for that hint on resizing the icons, worked perfectly
[16:12] <exobuzz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Accessibility first paragraph went out the window for natty then
[16:12] <exobuzz> DJones, did you make em smaller or bigger ? :)
[16:14] <hamitron> !grub2
[16:14] <hamitron> I should bookmark this ;/
[16:15] <KrimZon> oh, I remember why I haven't tried unity much - doesn't work in virtualbox
[16:15] <exobuzz> KrimZon, i think it worked when i enabled 3d acceleration. unity 2d should work.
[16:15] <exobuzz> (as much as unity does work) ;-)
[16:15]  * TheOpenSourcerer gets excited by the prospect of building an OpenStack cloud architecture inside a VirtualBox VM. https://uksysadmin.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/running-openstack-under-virtualbox-a-complete-guide/
[16:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Is that really sad?
[16:16] <KrimZon> I just got a message and gnome 2 so I deleted it
[16:16] <exobuzz> TheOpenSourcerer, useful for testing i guess? :)
[16:16] <AlanBell> yo dawg, we heard you liked VMs
[16:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hi AlanBell how are you today?
[16:17] <AlanBell> great
[16:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> gosh.
[16:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm OK now. Was a tad worse for wear this morning though.
[16:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> I will hope to be around for the quiz later but we are all going to the Bat & Ball this evening for dinner...
[16:19] <AlanBell> yeah, tbh this morning was a bit of a writeoff for me too
[16:20] <AlanBell> KrimZon: it totally does work in virtualbox
[16:29] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] OggCamp11  It sold out already! - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2011/04/16/oggcamp11-it-sold-out-already/
[16:30] <kazade_> o/
[16:31] <MartijnVdS> \o
[16:32] <KrimZon> AlanBell: I enabled 3D acceleration and gave it 64MB
[16:33] <AlanBell> install virtualbox-ose-guest-x11 in the guest
[16:33] <AlanBell> then it will work
[16:33] <KrimZon> ahh
[16:33] <AlanBell> do not mess about with any other guest additions stuff
[16:34] <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: sign of a good night, I hope :)
[17:02] <Pendulum> AlanBell: you know that when we connect to the ubuntu uk mumble it moves us all into the Global Jam room, right?
[17:03] <brobostigon> how does beef chilli sound for tea?
[17:03] <Pendulum> brobostigon: yum
[17:03] <Pendulum> ooh... maybe I'll get curry today!
[17:03] <brobostigon> Pendulum: i am making my own, i am going to leave it for a while cooking, longer the better i think,
[17:04] <Pendulum> brobostigon: that's even better :)
[17:04] <Pendulum> chili is often better the next day :)
[17:05] <brobostigon> i need to start making it then, otherwise it wont be redy before te quiz.
[17:05] <AlanBell> Pendulum: yes
[17:05] <AlanBell> I should rename that room really
[17:06]  * brobostigon goes to cook, beer in hand,
[17:06] <DJones> exobuzz: I made them a little bit smaller
[17:10] <nperry> !mumble
[17:11] <nperry> Hmm, whats the server?
[17:12] <AlanBell> mumble.libertus.co.uk
[17:12] <AlanBell> !info mumble
[17:13] <nperry> I can, haven't got my mic at the moment :)
[17:14] <AlanBell> great
[17:18]  * shauno needs to find somewhere appropriate to scream about XP :(
[17:19] <MartijnVdS> shauno: /dev/null
[17:20] <shauno> I need to find a bigger sticks for apps that you've already tried to kill, but still won't go away.  sigh.
[17:23] <dwatkins> Hooray for Ubuntu and getdeb, which allowed me to install Fuppes to stream media to my PS3 :D
[17:23] <MartijnVdS> fuppes?
[17:24]  * MartijnVdS uses the synology built-in media streaming bit
[17:24] <dwatkins> not tried that, but I wanted to test out fuppes before I get a Drobo and run it on there.
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ask popey about drobo :)
[17:24] <nperry> AlanBell: Not sure what I've done [17:24] Connecting to server mumble.libertus.co.uk.
[17:24] <dwatkins> oh?
[17:24] <nperry> [17:24] Server connection failed: The remote host closed the connection.
[17:24] <iceflatline> I use fuppes with freenas and my xbox - works great.
[17:25] <dwatkins> I used to use Fuppes with my Xbox 360 before its hardware died :-/
[17:26] <iceflatline> right. that hasn't been very reliable for me either.
[17:29] <AlanBell> nperry: seems to be working and nothing changed on the server end
[17:29] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: thanks, had a look through my log for mentions from him about it, looks like he has a similar plan to me, to make an Ubuntu server which operates like a Drobo.
[17:30] <nperry> AlanBell: Could be that I registered then actually setup my SSL cert :s
[17:30] <matti> ;]
[17:30] <AlanBell> could be
[17:30] <nperry> AlanBell: Sorry, could resit 'playing'
[17:31] <AlanBell> I got confused with certs too, having two users
[17:31] <nperry> Are you able to delete 'nperry'?
[17:31] <nperry> And I'll start again.
[17:41] <AlanBell> nperry: um, possibly
[17:43] <brobostigon> advice, are chinese noodles okwith chilli, it is all i have, didnt plan properly, no rice,
[17:43] <brobostigon> please.
[17:43] <AlanBell> it all ends up in the same place
[17:43] <Pendulum> brobostigon: anything is okay with chili
[17:43] <brobostigon> Pendulum: yay, :) thank you,
[17:43] <Pendulum> I've done it with spaghetti, various types of noodles, potoato
[17:44] <Pendulum> heck, a lot of times in the US you don't get it with anything
[17:44] <brobostigon> AlanBell: good point, however i had more concern if it works properly.
[17:44] <brobostigon> Pendulum: wow, ok, interesting,
[17:44] <shauno> hollowed loaf is my favourite.  a bowl of chili you can walk with  :D
[17:44] <Pendulum> :)
[17:45] <brobostigon> :)
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> hm
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> sounds like my neighbors are fighting again
[17:45] <AlanBell> top tip: don't buy a sliced loaf to make it with
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ah, the voice of experience
[17:46] <shauno> sliced bread is no fun :)
[17:47] <Pendulum> well, if you're a dog in the house, the sliced bread might lead to more fun
[17:48] <shauno> I tend to just avoid it alltogether.  difficult to make a proper manwich with 4mm of bread.
[17:48] <AlanBell> nperry: you have been terminated
[17:48] <nperry> AlanBell: And I'm back, must of been me messing around
[17:48] <brobostigon> shauno: i tried super-thick sliced before, makes an amazing ham and cheese toastie,
[17:49] <AlanBell> I just deleted your registered user
[17:51] <nperry> I can, as earlier still haven't gone upstairs to dig my mic out.
[17:51] <MartijnVdS> nperry: time to do that then :)
[17:51] <Pendulum> nperry: you have 2.5 hours in which to get your mic out :P
[17:51] <nperry> I've enabled push-to-talk but still registered.
[17:52] <MartijnVdS> nperry: push-to-talk means it'll send voice only when you press a button.. it won't mute you
[17:53] <brobostigon> quiz is 9pm yes? so i have my plans properly to not be disturbed?
[17:54] <Pendulum> brobostigon: yes
[17:54] <Pendulum> we are just being silly on mumble at the moment
[17:54] <brobostigon> lol :)
[17:54] <brobostigon> hehe
[17:54] <buzz_> a quiz ?
[17:54] <buzz_> irc quiz ?
[17:57] <AlanBell> yup
[17:57] <AlanBell> questions and answers will be in #ubuntu-trivia
[17:58] <MartijnVdS> buzz_: https://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/59298782826860545
[17:58] <AlanBell> and you can install mumble and connect to mumble.libertus.co.uk just for fun
[18:00] <brobostigon> it is quite distracting listening to chaps and gals mumble, and not laughing, while cooking,
[18:00] <brobostigon> :)
[18:00] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: join us!
[18:01] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: once i have eaten, i might not be easy cooking with headset on.
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you'd be surprised.. :)
[18:02] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: nor eating for that matter.
[18:02] <brobostigon> :)
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> Unless we start shouting directions "No no.. more pepper!" in your ear
[18:03] <brobostigon> lol, :)
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: it's like shouting numbers when someone is trying to count :)
[18:04] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, definatly, :)
[18:05]  * brobostigon giggles atsome of the noises coming from mumble.
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> what kind of noises? :)
[18:05] <brobostigon> hehe, hmmm, :)
[18:05] <brobostigon> like that, :)
[18:16]  * brobostigon noms in beef chiili, yummy,
[18:16] <brobostigon> on*
[18:19] <brobostigon> the best though, is apparently, chilli a'la popey.
[18:21] <brobostigon> i need a google and wikipedia irssi lookup plugin :)
[18:23] <brobostigon> cheating, oh, no, definatly not, no.
[18:23] <MartijnVdS> get a reddit plugin as well ;)
[18:24] <brobostigon> yeah, :)
[18:24] <dutchie> heh
[18:24] <dutchie> just wondered what that symbol on the power button thing was
[18:24] <dutchie> then i realised it was a crumb on my screen
[18:24] <brobostigon> lol
[18:32] <Pendulum> curry \o/
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> Pendulum: curry!
[18:38] <Myrtti> whee, a new toy ♥
[18:38] <Myrtti> although it sucks that I can't really use it :-(
[18:38] <Myrtti> stupid swype doesn't have all the characters I've got on my passwords
[18:39] <brobostigon> sothe new toy is swype?
[18:40] <Myrtti> the new toy is a device with a rubbish version of swype
[18:41] <brobostigon> ah, i see.
[18:41] <brobostigon> not hot.
[18:42] <Myrtti> kinda limits the use of the device if I can't really do anything that requires my password
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: add it to the dictionary
[18:42] <Myrtti> how?
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I don't know, I hate swype :)
[18:42] <Myrtti> how can you add a character to a dictionary if I don't have the character anywhere on the device?
[18:43] <Myrtti> indeed
[18:43] <brobostigon> :(
[18:46] <dutchie> Myrtti: can you not use another keyboard to enter the character?
[18:48] <Myrtti> I'll just flash the device with a new version of MeeGo anyway
[18:48] <Myrtti> perhaps it's changed since then
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: copy/paste from a webpage ;)
[18:51] <AlanBell> Myrtti: joining in the quiz later?
[18:51] <Myrtti> AlanBell: is it on this channel?
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: #ubuntu-trivia
[18:52] <AlanBell> and with audio via mumble
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: (and mumble)
[18:52] <AlanBell> there is a rather acceptable mumble client for android as I understand it
[18:53] <brobostigon> doesnt work on my dream though,crashes soon as you hit the speak button.
[18:55] <Myrtti> aw
[18:55]  * brobostigon shakes his fist at dropbox
[18:56] <brobostigon> 40% ram use, is alittle axcesive,
[18:59] <hamitron> only got 64mb brobostigon?
[18:59] <hamitron> ;)
[19:00] <jacobw> evening
[19:00] <brobostigon> hamitron: most thing works fine, mumble is alittle too heavy,
[19:01] <hamitron> not used it myself
[19:02] <brobostigon> hamitron: it seems very rougharound the adges.
[19:02] <brobostigon> edges*
[19:37] <issyl0> Hrm.
[19:37] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: what's up?
[19:38] <issyl0> After Natty telling me I can't run Unity due to hardware limitations, is it now normal that on the login screen I can't see a "change session" thing, to switch to GNOME Classic as it tells me I have to?  I somehow think not.  :D
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: you get that after typing/selecting your username
[19:38] <issyl0> Ohhh.
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> then it pops up the "Which session/keyboard layout/language" bar
[19:38] <issyl0> That would explain it.
[19:38] <issyl0> Ohhh.
[19:38] <issyl0> Cheers.
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> *bow*
[19:46] <shauno> I still can't get this via to boot :(
[19:52] <shauno> this is funky so far.  I can tell brobostigon & martin.  everyone else just sounds the same
[19:53] <brobostigon> shauno: i have a distinctive voice, :)
[19:53] <MartijnVdS> and I'm Dutch :)
[19:54] <shauno> heh.  well, yes, there is that
[19:55] <brobostigon> i am only english,
[19:55] <exobuzz> i was wondering why i couldnt get on irc. i had like 2 xchats already running, but no systray or so on unity. i dunno im sure its me but back to classic again heh
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> just use irssi ;)
[19:55] <exobuzz> pfff
[19:55] <shauno> mostly just surprised how much difference 10 years outside the UK makes.  you all(*) just sound like generic southerners :p
[19:56] <exobuzz> MartijnVdS, are you also a mac user ? :)
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> exobuzz: No.
[19:56] <brobostigon> shauno: i spent ten years as a teenager in germany.
[19:56] <exobuzz> MartijnVdS, it would suit you well. you can say things like "get a mac" and not understand the concept of choice ;-)
[19:57] <MartijnVdS> exobuzz: Choice? Choice? :)
[19:57] <issyl0> Heh.  You won't be able to tell I spent four years in France, if and when I voice chat - unless there's any French going on.  :P
[19:57] <exobuzz> or the classic "how do i do this on mysql" "get postgresql" - always like that one on forums. real helpful :)
[19:57] <shauno> I'm a mac user .. by choice :p
[19:57] <exobuzz> and as for ruby devs. worst ever for this sort of thing ;-)
[20:00] <exobuzz> shauno, i own 3 macs. but dont tell anyone
[20:01] <shauno> ooh ooh ooh I have isolinux!
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: We'll be able to tell, don't worry :)
[20:01] <issyl0> Hmmm, OK.
[20:01] <shauno> *cough*ing jumper select.  long time since I used anything IDE :)
[20:01] <exobuzz> I was thinking to mod my ppc mac mini http://www.bit-tech.net/news/modding/2005/06/10/itoilet_mod/1
[20:01] <exobuzz> :-)
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ooh jumper select.. back in the day before cable select :)
[20:01] <shauno> that's the one :p
[20:02] <MartijnVdS> Those were the days 8-)
[20:02] <issyl0> Everyone sounds a bit different through a mic though.
[20:02] <shauno> still not booting, but it made a noble effort atleast
[20:03] <shauno> now stuck at "Loading bootlogo".  not sure it'll get past that, since I only appear to have EGA
[20:03] <matti> Hah.
[20:03] <matti> My notebook smells like Peppermint Latte from Starbucks ;]
[20:03] <shauno> top right on mac
[20:03] <shauno> popey: ^
[20:04] <MartijnVdS> shauno: #ubuntu-trivia ;)
[20:04] <shauno> I will.  having enough fun multitasking with this zombie machine
[20:06] <shauno> so I need to find a bootcd that doesn't try to load a logo :/
[20:08]  * shauno eyes over a 6.06 CD
[20:08] <shauno> popey: iirc you have a freedom hating phone?  the headset for that should work as mic+headphones (+remote!) in your mbp, if you'd rather avoid having the mic sat on the desk
[20:09] <popey> ah, good point
[20:09] <popey> i have a decent mic though
[20:12] <shauno> okay, 6.06 really doesn't boot.  the beeper just goes nuts
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Stone-age Ubuntu? :)
[20:13] <shauno> I got it on disk, so figured it'd be worth a shot
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> on bare hardware, or in a vm?
[20:14] <ali12341> does any idea what this means: stop: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.261" (uid=1000 pid=26882 comm="stop) interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Stop" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init"))
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> I think I might have some warty CDs somewhere in a box
[20:14] <shauno> hardware.  a via 800  :/
[20:14] <MartijnVdS> ali12341: it's a dbus permission error..
[20:25] <shauno> if I can't figure this out, I'm gonna stick potato on it and upgrade in-band.
[20:25] <shauno> everything will fall to potato :D
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: bo.
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> shauno: or hamm
[20:29] <shauno> only used potato and woody :/
[20:29] <shauno> then I stopped buying debian because 14 CDs was getting silly :)
[20:31] <shauno> tempted to try installing to the CF with vmware, but it's on the underside of the motherboard :(
[20:31] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I just used netinstall
[20:32] <shauno> hm.  with no bootable media at all?
[20:33] <shauno> no pci slots so I can't feed it an etherpro.  just these lil realtek fakes :/
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> no with a mini-cd
[20:33] <MartijnVdS> or with 2-3 floppies
[20:34] <shauno> that's it .. it's not booting from CDs.  they all hang when they try to give me a splash @ isolinux
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> floppies \o/
[20:36] <shauno> no headers for a drive :p  (it's a 3.5" pc-104 board)
[20:37] <ali12341> why VMWARE?
[20:37] <shauno> because I have it, it's installed, and it doesn't mind doing raw disk access
[20:37] <ali12341> remove CF card, put in reader, dd grub image...
[20:37] <ali12341> why do you need vmware for this?
[20:38] <shauno> because if I'm going to go to all the effort of retrieving the card, I may as well just stick an OS on it
[20:38] <shauno> having everything hanging out the machine is rather unwieldy
[20:38] <ali12341> ok i see
[20:39] <AlanBell> quiz starting in 20 minutes or so
[20:39] <ali12341> well the only other way i can see is to jtag it, if it has mini pci or something
[20:39] <shauno> it's an odd shaped box.  almost exactly the same depth as my dvdrom, 19" 1U.  so everything's hanging on the outside while I install because the drive won't actually fit inside
[20:40] <shauno> it has a couple of hirose connectors, and the standard pc-104 thing on the side (not actually sure what that exposes)
[20:42] <ali12341> did you reflash to oem bios?
[20:42] <shauno> yup
[20:43] <ali12341> odd that it doesn't support cdrom then
[20:43] <ali12341> wait how did you plug in a cdrom drive anyway?
[20:43] <shauno> it's trying the cdrom.  I get the isolinux version header, then "loading bootlogo".  then nothing
[20:44] <shauno> pull the dvdrom from an old machine, the ide cable with it so I've got a second header on the same cable
[20:44] <ali12341> why can't you plug an ide hard drive instead?
[20:44] <shauno> there's 1 hdd and 1 cdrom atm
[20:44] <shauno> trying to install from the cdrom to the hdd
[20:44] <ali12341> remove cdrom, add second hdd
[20:45] <shauno> there's not space for a second hdd to live
[20:45] <ali12341> you remove it after installing
[20:45] <shauno> still not sure how that helps me get an OS on it :)
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: put disk in other machine, put OS on disk, replace disk in original machine
[20:46] <ali12341> you put a distro on any random harddrive, boot it, then use deboostrap to install on the internal hd
[20:46] <shauno> my other machine's a laptop
[20:46] <ali12341> you don't have a usb dock?
[20:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: wrong bumper sticker ;)
[20:51] <shauno> yarrr.  found a model number on the underside.  google time
[20:51] <MartijnVdS> willy1977: speak to us! :)
[20:51] <shauno> http://www.avalue.com.tw/products/ECM-3610.cfm
[20:52] <MartijnVdS> ooh cfm, old site :)
[20:53] <willy1977> I heard suprengr
[20:59] <AlanBell> ok, about to get quizical in #ubuntu-trivia
[21:00] <shauno> this is pretty awesome with text-to-speach
[21:05] <Myrtti> meh
[21:06] <Myrtti> I didn't quite remember that Cathedral City is this salty
[21:06] <Myrtti> no wonder people drink buckets of tea
[21:24] <peejay1977> Hey all, anyone know of a fix for the CD boot issue for Ubuntu 11.04 Beta 2? I get a boot error straight after the initial menu but cant seem to find much on Google
[22:07] <Azelphur> haha, my new sky internet is down and I just called tech support, the guy asked me about my setup and was in awe XD
[22:07] <Azelphur> "What OS do you run" "Linux" "Woaa..."
[22:08] <Azelphur> "I can run any OS you need though I have virtual machines"
[22:47] <exobuzz> hmm. had a dkms driver keep crashing on natty. switching to gcc-4.4 from 4.5 fixed it
[22:47] <exobuzz> i reckon there are going to be a lot of gcc 4.5 issues if ive already found one
[22:49] <exobuzz> driver was a vendor rt2870sta wireless driver.
[22:52] <exobuzz> actually it could be just related to mixing compiler for kernel/modules which you're not supposed to do . hmm. i guess i should try and build the kernel on 4.5 and see
[22:58] <shauno> so back to this silly machine.  can't find my cardreader :o)
[23:12] <nperry> Azelphur: I spoke to some tech support a couple of weeks ago..
[23:12] <Azelphur> nperry: yea? :P
[23:12] <nperry> They asked me to install windows
[23:13] <Azelphur> haha
[23:13] <Azelphur> tbh that's what I was expecting, that's why I have vm's.
[23:13] <Azelphur> but the guy was very nice and didn't try any of the "You're using linux /shun" stuff
[23:13] <nperry> I've had BT fobb me off with "your internet doesn't work because you are using linux"
[23:13] <Azelphur> he just seemed genuinely interested in how one computer could run 2 operating systems at the same time :D
[23:14] <Azelphur> haha
[23:14] <nperry> Well, thats what I thought he said anyway...
[23:14] <Azelphur> "That must take a lot of resources, what do you have like 4GB RAM?" "haha 4GB, I have 12" "12 OMG!!! HOW DOES YOUR MOTHERBOARD EVEN TAKE THAT MUCH" "The motherboard supports up to 24" "OMG THATS INSANE"
[23:14] <Azelphur> xD
[23:15] <nperry> Hmmm, was the person english?
[23:15] <Azelphur> yea
[23:15] <nperry> As i've worked in a couple of tech support places and they are all geeks...
[23:16] <Azelphur> yea he sounded pretty cool, he was eager to ask about my setup :)
[23:16] <nperry> Should of told him to come on irc
[23:16] <Azelphur> I nearly did but didn't wanna be weird lol
[23:16] <nperry> "hey come to this chat room"
[23:16] <Azelphur> exactly xD
[23:17] <nperry> Yeah, would sound pretty odd.
[23:19] <hamitron> grrr
[23:20] <hamitron> should the idea of an online golf game, to be to play golf against others?
[23:20] <awilkins> PangYa!   ?
[23:20] <hamitron> maybe I am missing something, with all the people wanting to play alone
[23:36] <SMG> hello, can some one help me with this, when ever i try to build binutil I get this "http://paste.ubuntu.com/594986/", how would i solve it?
[23:47] <ali12341> hamitron: online golf game?
[23:48] <ali12341> online version of mario golf would be awesome
[23:48] <hamitron> I play shot online sometimes
[23:48] <ali12341> i'm sure aimbots would ruin it though
[23:49] <hamitron> it uses nProtect :(
[23:50] <ali12341> does it work on linux?
[23:51] <hamitron> no
[23:51] <hamitron> :/
[23:53] <ali12341> i kind of wish that wii wasn't backwards compatible because the price of the good gamecube games has gone up
[23:57] <hamitron> this is the most fun golf game I played
[23:57] <hamitron> wish it ran on wine :/


[12:20] <LaserJock> I wonder how much they are paying for them this year
[03:56] <LaserJock> nixternal: not looking good
[03:59] <Admiral_Chicago> LaserJock: not at all :(
[04:33] <tonyyarusso> uh oh
[04:33] <tonyyarusso> why?
[04:33] <crimsun> silly Super Bowl tradition, but that's off-topic :)
[04:33] <tonyyarusso> ..'k.
[04:38] <nixternal> bah
[04:39] <LaserJock> nixternal: sorry dude
[04:40] <nixternal> that was sad, sad, sad, sad
[04:40] <nixternal> you know what, if it wasn't for Kubuntu, I would jump off the roof of the house
[04:40] <nixternal> even if it is only 10 feet
[04:48] <jjesse> just cause da bears lost?  bummer rich :)
[04:53] <nixternal> hehe
[04:53] <nixternal> lost isn't even the right words for what they did
[04:54] <jjesse> well if they could've made a complete pass w/o throwing an interception :)
[04:56] <LaserJock> heh, the 1st quarter seemed good for them
[04:57] <LaserJock> I was watching via yahoo sports
[04:57] <jjesse> yeah it was a good game at the beginning
[04:57] <crimsun> I was fixing alsa-lib.
[04:57] <LaserJock> and I read the kickoff return and was like "that's gotta be embarrasing for the colts"
[04:58] <LaserJock> crimsun: I was fixing a mirror on my minivan
[04:58] <crimsun> I should have scolded Rich in the changelog.
[04:58] <jjesse> i was at a party for the 1st half
[04:59] <LaserJock> crimsun: the "glad I'm not watching the Stupid Bowl" release?
[05:00] <nixternal> hardy har har
[05:00] <crimsun> sorry, but I've already rootkit'd your audio drivers (not to mention I don't have *ubuntu docs installed)
[05:01] <jjesse> man i love the movie "the natural"
[05:01] <jjesse> one of the greatest of all times sportwise
[06:39] <nixternal> how do I create the relation series ID for OMF files?
[06:42] <Madpilot> sacrifice a small chicken under a full moon?
[06:42] <nixternal> heh, nah, I just read the GNOME admin guide, I got it now
[06:59] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3760 edubuntu/ (3 files in 3 dirs): OMF files for Edubuntu docs
[07:00] <Madpilot> CIA-4, are you a bot?
[07:35] <LaserJock> Madpilot: kinda, a commit bot
[07:51] <Ubugtu> New bug: #83375 in ubuntu-doc "Online (HTML) document should not use ASCII art arrows" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/83375
[08:49] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3761 edubuntu/ (2 files in 2 dirs): typos
[09:01] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: nixternal * r3762 edubuntu/debian/ (8 files): Edubuntu debian directory for new package - temp at this - will require further tweaks in the future possibly
[09:35] <mpt> Is there any magic incantation to be able to view the help pages in Yelp with links that work?
[09:35] <mpt> I get warnings like "Could not resolve ghelp URI: ghelp:windows"
[09:38] <mpt> And why is, for example, windows.xml in its own directory, but usersandgroups.xml inside newtoubuntu/?
[09:42] <mpt> Eh, who renamed my list of Ubuntu equivalents a "Glossary of Windows Terms"
[09:42] <mpt> It Is Not A Glossary of Windows Terms :-(
[10:39] <mdke> mpt: taking your questions in turn :)
[10:39] <mdke> mpt: 1. build ubuntu-docs and install it
[10:40] <mdke> mpt: 2. usersandgroups.xml isn't used iirc, it's now in keeping-safe.xml
[10:40] <mdke> mpt: 3. me, but I've been meaning to find a better name for it for some time now
[11:09] <mpt> mdke, yeah, I've been trying to think of a good name for it too :-)
[11:10] <mpt> but it's much more a list of equivalents than it is a list of definitions
[11:10] <mpt> The Mac equivalent is called "Where is the ...?"
[11:19] <mdke> mpt: right
[11:29] <mpt> mdke, what do you mean by "build ubuntu-docs"? I don't see an "ubuntu-docs" target in either of the Makefiles, nor mentioned in their respective READMEs
[11:30] <mdke> mpt: I mean build the package, or alternatively upgrade to feisty and wait for the latest version.
[11:31] <mpt> I know ubuntu-docs is a package, I still don't know how to build it, though :-)
[11:31] <mdke> mpt: I'll build one and put it online?
[11:32] <mpt> no, no worries
[11:32] <mpt> Sorry, I thought it was just typing something
[11:33] <mdke> ok. ghelp: basically calls the documents installed at /usr/share/gnome/help
[11:35] <mpt> Anyway, I'm part-way through compacting the "About Ubuntu" section
[11:35] <mpt> since it's full of stuff that isn't particularly helpful
[11:36] <mdke> well, it's not so much help as general interest, I guess
[11:38] <mpt> Besides which, "Thank you for your interest in" has always grated on me :-)
[11:38] <mpt> anyway, bedtime
[11:40] <mpt> (and GNU was founded in 1983, not 1984)
[06:55] <Ubugtu> New bug: #81788 in xubuntu-docs (main) "Xubuntu doc bug-filing link points to Ubuntu doc bug-filing link" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/81788
[06:56] <somerville32> thats not a new bug :/
[07:42] <Commander-Crowe> erm?
[07:43] <mdke> erm indeed
[07:43] <nixternal> very much erm
[07:43] <Commander-Crowe> oh?
[07:43] <nixternal> why yes
[07:43] <nixternal> heh
[07:43] <Commander-Crowe> I get emails form some with the same name
[07:43] <Commander-Crowe><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:43] <Commander-Crowe> or sometihng like tat
[07:43] <mdke> probably me
[07:44] <nixternal> ya, watch out for him, he tends to eat PCs
[07:44] <Commander-Crowe> good thing this is a Mac
[07:44] <nixternal> oh, well, I won't tell you what he does with those then
[07:44] <nixternal> it is a neat trick nonetheless
[07:44] <Commander-Crowe> I'
[07:45] <Commander-Crowe> I'd like to see what he does with Sparcs :P
[07:45] <nixternal> I am sure that's ruffage, but there will be sparcks involved
[08:45] <LaserJock> mdke: are you about?
[08:46] <somerville32> s/are you about?/ping
[08:47] <LaserJock> heh, no
[08:47] <LaserJock> that would be a contentless ping
[08:47] <LaserJock> but I put a smiggen of content in there
[08:49] <somerville32> hehe
[08:50] <LaserJock> mdke: just throwing out idea, would it be a huge deal to split off an HTML branch or something and have people who look after the HTML versions?
[08:51] <LaserJock> mdke: I think the answer is yes but seems like we can't have our cake and eat it too ;-)
[11:13] <mdke> LaserJock: I'm not sure if you're suggesting maintaining different content as well as fixing links? In any case, I think now we've got some better structure in our docs, it's time to try and integrate things with the wiki if possible
[11:13] <LaserJock> mhm
[11:14] <LaserJock> I'm a little wary of putting it in the wiki put it seems like a decent solution
[12:16] <CIA-4> Ubuntu Documentation: mdke * r3763 /trunk/ (ubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml xubuntu/libs/xubuntu.ent): Matthew's patch for renaming ethereal


[05:46] <Admiral_Chicago> hmm, seems I edited UWN 28 to add information, but I may not have done that
[04:02] <atoponce> question: who runs ubotu?
[04:05] <jenda> answer: Seveas
[04:06] <atoponce> jenda: though so. thx
[04:06] <jenda> np
[04:06] <lotusleaf> atoponce: also see #ubuntu-bots
[04:07] <atoponce> can you /invite it?
[04:07] <lotusleaf> jenda: how go the roughcut tshirt sale plans?
[04:07] <lotusleaf> atoponce: there's a wiki or some sort of page for it
[04:07] <lotusleaf> listing various commands
[04:07] <jenda> lotusleaf: cancelled.
[04:07] <lotusleaf> jenda: really, why?
[04:07] <jenda> lotusleaf: because the german shirts are just so great :)
[04:08] <lotusleaf> jenda: oh? a different design?
[04:08] <atoponce> #ubuntu-nebraska wast just setup last night. they have ubotu in #ubuntu-midwest, now want it in their new channel
[04:08] <lotusleaf> jenda: was there not enough demand for the roughcut design?
[04:08] <lotusleaf> atoponce: send a memo to seveas?
[04:08] <lotusleaf> atoponce: via memoserv
[04:08] <atoponce> lotusleaf: yeah. will do
[04:08] <atoponce> thx
[04:08] <lotusleaf> yw ;)
[04:08] <jenda> lotusleaf: no, I just don't want to compete with juliux.
[04:09] <jenda> lotusleaf: his shirts are perfect.
[04:09] <jenda> lotusleaf: I'm wearing one right now :)
[04:09] <lotusleaf> jenda: oh, did someone else make them with that design?
[04:09] <atoponce> ubotu for logging the meetings?
[04:09] <jenda> No, diff design, lotusleaf, but still great.
[04:09] <lotusleaf> jenda: linky, plz? :)
[04:09] <lotusleaf> jenda: darn, I was hoping for your roughcut tshirts, though I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult for someone else to do
[04:10] <lotusleaf> atoponce: dunno about that but there is a bot or bots that log some channels
[04:11] <jenda> lotusleaf: http://diy.devubuntu.com/polo.jpg
[04:11] <lotusleaf> thx
[04:12] <atoponce> seveas own ubuntulog also?
[04:12] <jenda> lotusleaf: oh well, I might revisit the project, but there's just too much to work on, and the pull isn't so strong since shirts are available.
[04:12] <jenda> atoponce: I think that's fabbione.
[04:13] <lotusleaf> jenda: roger that, what's on the back of abovementioned link jpg?
[04:14] <jenda> lotusleaf: usually nothing, but I'm sure that guy leaned a bit too close to the wall.
[04:14] <jenda> ;)
[04:14] <lotusleaf> heh
[04:14] <lotusleaf> nothing on the back?
[04:14] <lotusleaf> darn, see that's where the roughcut design shines
[04:14] <lotusleaf> the jpg(s) examples of the roughcut tshirt f/b was awesome
[04:15] <jenda> hmm
[04:15] <lotusleaf> very nice work on the devubuntu site, I really like the layout
[04:15] <jenda> thanks, that's mostly meatballhat's work.
[04:15] <lotusleaf> really, very nice
[04:15] <jenda> He's priceless :)
[04:15] <jenda> (For everything else, there is MasterCard)
[04:16] <lotusleaf> ha
[04:16] <lotusleaf> jenda: was there a font license conflict over the roughcut design or something?
[04:17] <jenda> Not at all.
[04:18] <jenda> I even finally got Canonical's ack yesterday :)
[04:19] <lotusleaf> awesome :)
[04:26] <lotusleaf> jenda: so would postponed be a better word rather than cancelled for the roughcut tshirt plans? :)
[04:27] <jenda> lotusleaf: postponed to unknown, I guess :)
[04:27] <lotusleaf> yay! so there's a chance
[04:27] <jenda> I can't guarantee I'll do it, but everything's ready for it.
[04:27] <jenda> beuno!
[04:28] <lotusleaf> awesome, thanks
[04:28] <beuno> jenda!
[04:28] <jenda> Cwap! My chair fell apart, brb
[04:28] <beuno> lol
[05:12] <poningru> wtf
[05:12] <poningru> rofl
[05:23] <jenda> ok, it's fine now :)
[05:25] <slytherin> Anyone listening to suggestions/corrections?
[05:26] <jenda> slytherin: we're one big ear.
[05:27] <lotusleaf> slytherin: this channel is logged, yes. :)
[05:27] <lotusleaf> slytherin: have you discovered the marketing mailing list, yet? :)
[05:40] <slytherin> jenda: lotusleaf: Sorry for being idle this much time. Kind of busy. In the latest Her2 announcement, the link to ZeroConfNetworking is broken. Looks like it was relative url when the page was on wiki.
[06:34] <bapoumba> Hello :)
[07:36] <meatballhat> bapoumba: (yes, I'm an hour late in saying it) hello!
[07:36] <bapoumba> :D
[07:37] <bapoumba> meatballhat, time for dinner here, I'l be back in an hour or so
[07:37] <bapoumba> just on time for your reply ;)
[08:32] <juliux> jenda, ping
[09:02] <jenda> juliux: pong
[09:03] <juliux> jenda, sorry it is allready clear what i want asked you
[09:03] <jenda> kk
[11:35] <sid> elkbuntu: Is there a public website to see the polls for Ubuntu users that you gave?