[05:30]  * angch on zenio's paradox.
[05:30] <angch> the first 80% is so easy.
[05:30] <angch> last % is exponentially harder....


[04:20] <pleia2> got busy today with home stuff, will get to the newsletter once I manage to make+eat dinner :)
[04:21] <pleia2> we'll bullet-point blogosphere this week, not enough writers of summaries
[04:21] <pleia2> so I think it's time for me to do another call for writers
[04:40] <jose> pleia2: I'm sorry for not being around too much lately, school's keeping me a bit busy (around finals now)
[04:40] <holstein> yeah, i got slammed too
[04:41] <holstein> i'll try and be more attentive here when im just sitting around though
[06:44] <dholbach> good morning
[06:53]  * PaulW2U writes another couple of summaries but runs out of time :(
[06:54] <pleia2> PaulW2U: you can keep writing for planet if you're able
[06:54] <pleia2> I'm going to bullet-point the blogosphere ones
[07:03] <PaulW2U> pleia2: yeh, I saw that. Just a few left, the usual ones that always get left :)
[07:03]  * pleia2 nods
[07:25] <pleia2> I'll add stats in the morning
[07:25] <pleia2> PaulW2U: thanks again :)
[07:27]  * pleia2 sleep &
[21:13] <pleia2> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue325
[21:18] <Unit193> Links done be good.
[21:25] <pleia2> thanks Unit193


[07:51] <ochosi> morning folks
[08:52] <brainwash> ali12341: do you know something about transmission and it's indicator menu? bug 1440992
[10:09] <ali12341> done
[10:11] <brainwash> ali12341: thanks
[10:22] <brainwash> elfy: is bug 1437180 still present? no one else has confirmed it yet in the report
[10:23] <ochosi> not sure but i thought bluesabre mentioned the same thing too
[10:24] <ochosi> if someone confirms it we should add it to the bugs blueprint
[10:25] <brainwash> it's already linked to the blueprint
[10:25] <brainwash> but there is no progress
[10:31] <ochosi> i'm unsure what we can do about it and why it didn't happen in the first place, i.e. when xfdesktop was added to our ubiquity session to draw the wallpaper
[10:32] <ochosi> the most straight-forward solution would be to replace xfdesktop with feh
[10:32] <ochosi> bluesabre: thoughts on this? ^
[10:32] <brainwash> ideally yes
[10:33] <brainwash> Unit193 has tested ubiquity with xfdesktop, so he should have noticed the icons I'd guess
[10:34] <brainwash> or maybe "it's not a bug, it's a feature" :)
[10:52] <bluesabre> xfdesktop wasn't recently added to ubiquity to draw the wallpaper, we've used it for years
[10:53] <bluesabre> the black background was due to it becoming a zombie process as I recall
[10:53] <bluesabre> and a newer xfdesktop release gave us desktop icons
[10:55] <bluesabre> I'd say its a bug, albeit minor, and I would not be opposed to switching to feh to draw the ubiquity background in 15.10, since that desktop doesn't do anything else
[11:05] <brainwash> bluesabre: is there some config file for xfdesktop when run in live mode? or are any parameters passed?
[11:05] <brainwash> I assume that the right click context menu works also
[11:05] <bluesabre> I'm not sure
[11:06] <brainwash> so, switching to feh would be the best option
[11:06] <bluesabre> I just know that we changed nothing except a new xfdesktop and started seeing icons
[11:24] <elfy> question re feh, currently if you start install and quit - the live media boots to the livesession - that going to get affected?
[11:28] <ochosi> bluesabre: yeah, i'd also say it's minor and prolly too late to switch to feh now
[11:29] <ochosi> but yeah, everything else (context menus) works with xfdesktop in the live session
[11:29] <ochosi> which means ppl can basically run any programme they want or even use multiple workspaces...
[11:29] <ochosi> so apart from the panel, there's little diff between the install only and the live session atm
[11:30] <elfy> which begs the question why do it then?
[11:30] <elfy> and also begs the other 'why test installs from install and not try' question too :)
[11:31] <elfy> ochosi: btw - 2 different names for the QA incentive this time :)
[11:32] <elfy> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dcx6FX9I7uS5lTUPUlldQkexpGN8syNeunDVrsVnRRk/edit?pli=1#gid=498196131
[11:32] <knome> woot :)
[11:34] <elfy> yep, I was pleased too ;)
[11:34] <bluesabre> nice
[11:34] <elfy> hi bluesabre :)
[11:35] <bluesabre> elfy: the live session won't be affected, it would only be the ubiquity installer session that would use feh, live desktop would be normal
[11:35] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[11:35] <bluesabre> :)
[11:36] <elfy> bluesabre: you misunderstand slightly, start livemedia, accidentally hit install
[11:37] <elfy> quit - you get to the livesession
[11:37] <elfy> with feh and not xfdesktop - what happens in that scenario?
[11:39] <ochosi> elfy: that looks great! (re: qa incentive)
[11:39] <ochosi> we should definitely blog a roundup of this
[11:39] <ochosi> that will hopefully further motivate people
[11:39] <bluesabre> if I recall, the installer is its own session, so when you quit that, all open apps are closed, then the desktop session is started, so feh is closed and xfdesktop is started
[11:40] <elfy> bluesabre: ok - thanks :)
[11:40] <elfy> ochosi: yea - was contemplating doing so *just* before RC/Final Release - hoping to drag a few extras in then
[11:41] <ochosi> good idea
[11:42] <elfy> I have them sometimes
[11:42] <ochosi> :)P
[11:42]  * bluesabre wishes he had them more often
[11:42] <elfy> I'd share mine bluesabre - but it's 2015 and I've only had one since 1999
[11:43] <elfy> luckily my 3 kids never read this oldfashioned irc stuff :p
[11:49] <bluesabre> lol
[11:57] <ochosi> bluesabre: you back at work or still on easter break?
[11:58] <bluesabre> easter break for me was saturday/sunday :)
[11:59] <ochosi> oh right :)
[11:59] <bluesabre> sorry Unit193, won't be able to make it to your meeting, but feel free to leave pings for me on anything that needs uploaded
[12:00] <bluesabre> I'll be doing a greeter-settings translations release/upload today, and maybe one for x-d-s if the workaround for the greeter white-screen works
[12:02] <ochosi> great!
[12:02] <ochosi> thanks bluesabre
[14:10] <ochosi> brainwash, elfy: just confirmed the xfdesktop icon bug in today's daily build and also noted that in the bugreport
[14:12] <ochosi> brainwash: since you've been poking xfdesktop a bit lately, any clue why the icons started appearing? my best guess so far is that our default settings weren't loaded correctly or at all before
[14:21] <ochosi> bluesabre: ok, i added an idea for a workaround: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1437180 (it's not pretty, but sorta okayish for 15.04)
[14:23] <elfy> ochosi: did you look at the incentive spreadsheet for the names - if so happy for me to announce them tonight ?
[14:23] <elfy> if you didn't can you - or trust me lol
[14:23] <ochosi> i did and i am! :)
[14:23] <elfy> you can't - QA team #info :D
[14:23] <ochosi> wasn't aware that you wanted/needed an ack (yeah, i do trust you ;))
[14:23] <elfy> well - as xpl I guess you should do one or the other :p
[14:24] <ochosi> yeah, since i've become xpl my feelings have turned binary. i either feel one thing or the other :)
[14:24] <knome> ochosi, no kidding.. :P
[14:25] <elfy> ha ha
[14:25] <ochosi> well either kidding or no kidding. there's no "kidding you a little" for me
[14:26]  * knome slips a whoopee cushion on ochosi's bench
[14:26] <ochosi> thanks, i've wanted one of those for ages!
[14:26] <knome> haha :)
[14:26]  * elfy removes the tacks from the cushion
[14:27] <elfy> bad knome
[14:27] <knome> i don't put tacks on whoopee cushions :P
[14:27] <knome> there are problems with them though
[14:27] <knome> the small ones give a pathetic sound
[14:27] <elfy> :)
[14:27] <elfy> yea for sure
[14:27] <knome> and the large ones are impossible to hide...
[19:27] <knome> slickymaster, FYI, we have some strings landing at some point soon for the slideshow once the template from jacks changes propagates back after an upload
[20:00] <Unit193> #startmeeting
[20:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 20:00:18 2015 UTC.  The chair is Unit193. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[20:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[20:00] <Unit193> #chair knome
[20:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: Unit193 knome
[20:00] <Unit193> Howdy everyone.
[20:00] <elfy> evening
[20:00] <Unit193> welcome to the Xubuntu community meeting.  Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[20:01] <Unit193> Anyone else around?  If not, this'll be nice and short.
[20:01] <Unit193> #topic Open action items
[20:01] <elfy> who knows
[20:02] <Unit193> elfy: Did we tie up everything for xubuntu-core testing?
[20:02] <elfy> afaik
[20:02] <Unit193> Great, same here.  I didn't see anything else needing testing.
[20:02] <Unit193> #done Unit193 to tie up with elfy for xubuntu-core upgrade testing needs
[20:02] <Unit193> #done elfy to add the "game issue" into the meeting agenda
[20:03] <Unit193> knome: Did you talk to ochosi about setting up a team vote?
[20:04]  * ochosi doesn't recall being talked to
[20:04]  * Unit193 gives ochosi a stern talking to.
[20:04] <ochosi> but it couldn have happened a longer time ago so maybe i don't remember
[20:04] <Unit193> Alright, we'll carry forward...
[20:04] <ochosi> team vote about what?
[20:05] <Unit193> "ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion"
[20:05] <Unit193> That's what I see.
[20:05] <ochosi> yeah, i know
[20:05] <ochosi> but no topic
[20:05] <Unit193> That's all I know.
[20:05] <ochosi> awesome :)
[20:05] <elfy> another one of those carried forward ad infinitum that we've all forgotten the topic off now?
[20:05] <ochosi> i guess i'll just "allow more time for discussion" :D
[20:06] <elfy> ha ha ha
[20:06] <Unit193> #nick knome
[20:06] <Unit193> #action knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
[20:06] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to follow up with ochosi on setting up a team vote - or allowing more time for discussion
[20:06] <Unit193> #topic Team updates
[20:06] <Unit193> Free for all, any updatese?
[20:06] <elfy> perhaps there should be a #action make the agenda make sense ...
[20:07] <slickymaster> sorry for being late guys, but it's dinner time over here and the little doesn't make any compromises
[20:07] <ochosi> #info ochosi pushed some fixes to Greybird, but likely too minor for 15.04
[20:07] <elfy> #info testing for b2 went ok, bugs about - more global than us
[20:07] <elfy> #info figures in for QA incentive
[20:07] <ochosi> #info ochosi prepared a (hacky) patch for ubiquity-dm to hide the desktop icons in bug #1437180
[20:07] <Unit193> #info exo and thunar fixes uploaded to vivid.
[20:08] <Unit193> ochosi: Ah good.
[20:08] <elfy> #info March sticker pack winner is PaulW2U
[20:08] <elfy> #info Final Beta sticker pack winner is saqman2060
[20:08] <elfy> #action elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both
[20:08] <meetingology> ACTION: elfy to tie up with pleia2 re contacting them both
[20:09] <ochosi> if any of you wanna chime in about the ubiquity-dm fix, feel free to get in touch
[20:09] <elfy> ?
[20:10] <slickymaster> I had some #info items, but I don't know now where I placed them :P
[20:10] <ochosi> elfy: well i dunno, if you have an opinion on it etc
[20:10] <elfy> oh
[20:10] <elfy> the icon issue?
[20:10] <ochosi> yeah
[20:11] <elfy> I only really had one thing to find out - and bluesabre put my mind at rest
[20:11] <ochosi> the question (partly) is: is the situation bad enough that we want a hacky fix pushed that we'll have to revert in 15.10
[20:11] <Unit193> We could move this to discussions. :P
[20:11] <micahg> is there a bug in xfdesktop?
[20:11] <elfy> I would agree they look a bit daft - but maybe better to leave well alone over the next 3 weeks
[20:12] <knome> i'm here.
[20:12] <ochosi> Unit193: agreed, let's discuss it a bit later (also re: micahg :) )
[20:12] <Unit193> #topic Discussion items
[20:12] <Unit193> ochosi: Want a subtopic right now?
[20:12] <pleia2> elfy: thanks, happy to ship off the stickers this week
[20:12] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, let's do that
[20:13] <Unit193> #subtopic Desktop Icons show on the install only desktop
[20:13] <Unit193> ochosi: Have at it.
[20:13] <elfy> pleia2: cool - I'll mail them as QA and cc you in as we did last time
[20:13]  * pleia2 thumbs up
[20:13] <elfy> :)
[20:13] <ochosi> ok, so the problem is quite easily explained, we use xfdesktop to draw the wallpaper in our ubiquity install-only session
[20:14] <ochosi> in 15.10 we'll likely switch to feh for drawing the wallpaper
[20:14] <ochosi> just makes more sense, xfdesktop has far too many features and all we really want is a wallpaper below ubiquity
[20:14] <ochosi> so the diff i attached on the bugreport basically switches the icons on the desktop setting off via an xfconf-query call
[20:15] <ochosi> it's really not a pretty solution
[20:15] <ochosi> but it'll do the trick
[20:15] <ochosi> micahg: thoughts? ^
[20:16] <micahg> if that's the best option and only affects us, I think that's fine
[20:16] <ochosi> tbh i don't know about "best"
[20:16] <ochosi> but the release date is closing in on us, and we might want a fix
[20:16] <Unit193> micahg: By default, it'll affect Studio too.  Myth doesn't release except for LTSes though.
[20:17] <ochosi> yeah, that's true
[20:17] <Unit193> Generally speaking, studio is less concerned with the desktop, and more interested in a/v.
[20:17] <micahg> looks relatively harmless
[20:17] <ochosi> yeah, i tested the xfconf command in a ubiquity live session
[20:18] <ochosi> actually there's even a second setting i would change, but i don't want to add another 6 lines for almost nothing
[20:18] <ochosi> (disable the right-click menu on the desktop, which allows launching of any other app)
[20:18] <Unit193> Racy?
[20:19] <ochosi> well, possibly
[20:19] <ochosi> you mean in case xfsettingsd hasnt started yet?
[20:19] <ochosi> dunno whether these commands are called synchronously or async
[20:20] <ochosi> generally speaking, calling xfsettingsd and then xfdesktop could also be considered racy
[20:20] <ochosi> brb
[20:21] <Unit193> Alright, well either way bluesabre isn't here, so.
[20:21] <micahg> let's keep an eye on timing, final freeze is next week
[20:22] <Unit193> #action ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons.
[20:22] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to get in touch with bluesabre about the patch for ubiquity, and xfdesktop icons.
[20:22] <Unit193> Any other remarks on this topic?
[20:22] <elfy> not from me
[20:22] <micahg> the trick with patching ubiquity is if there's a problem later, it's much harder to change
[20:22] <Unit193> Indeed.
[20:22] <micahg> just FYI
[20:22] <Unit193> #subtopic GIMP in the default seed (mailing list discussion)
[20:23] <micahg> ooh, idr seeing that
[20:23] <Unit193> knome: ^
[20:23] <knome> nnniiiice.
[20:24] <knome> well, it's the mailing list discussion.
[20:24] <Unit193> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010560.html
[20:24] <knome> i don't think there is a conclusion
[20:24] <micahg> oh, was a while ago
[20:25] <elfy> yea - these have been dragging their heels, mostly because 15.10
[20:25] <ochosi> back
[20:25] <knome> the gimp discussion wasn't also very long
[20:25] <Unit193> Same discussion every time, it's overkill, but there's no good simple editors.
[20:25] <knome> i think the thing that we know now (again) is that there isn't really a suitable replacement, because there really isn't
[20:25] <knome> yep
[20:25] <dkessel> Is pinta an option?
[20:25] <Unit193> No.
[20:25] <knome> so maybe the question is: does the still want to stick with GIMP?
[20:26] <knome> *the team
[20:26] <knome> or is it a valid option to drop it
[20:26] <Unit193> dkessel: There were a couple reasons, but mono is the biggest one.
[20:26] <micahg> pinta will pull in mono
[20:26] <ochosi> knome: what would be your main argument for dropping it?
[20:26] <Unit193> micahg: o/\o
[20:26] <dkessel> ok
[20:26] <knome> ochosi, it's huge, it's much more than a regular user needs
[20:27] <slickymaster> what about MyPaint?
[20:27] <knome> i don't think it has ever specifically contributed to the "xubuntu experience", we've been shipping it because some users and team members like it shipped
[20:28]  * Unit193
[20:28] <micahg> Description-en: paint program for use with graphics tablets
[20:29] <micahg> ?
[20:29] <Unit193> http://mypaint.info/
[20:29] <knome> micahg, that's misleading, but it's not like gimp, it's a drawing app more than an image editor
[20:29] <slickymaster> thanks Unit193
[20:29] <ochosi> yeah, the gimp does both
[20:29] <Unit193> The pictures are scaring me.
[20:29] <knome> micahg, and it is better with graphic tablets.
[20:30] <Unit193> So, seems to be something we're not looking at.
[20:30] <ochosi> so we'd have to first think what aspect of gimp we'd like to replace with *something*
[20:30] <micahg> yes
[20:30]  * knome facepalms
[20:30] <knome> that discussion has come and gone
[20:30] <ochosi> yeah :)
[20:30] <knome> you can refer to the old comparison in the wiki
[20:30] <Unit193> Yes,and ristretto still hasn't learned how to resize. :P
[20:30] <ochosi> it probably would make sense to do one of those
[20:30] <knome> the fact is that there is no suitable app that does it
[20:31] <knome> it being the features we want to replace in gimp
[20:31] <Unit193> So while it's overkill, it does what we need and can't find something else to do it.
[20:31] <knome> but instead of shipping the huge gimp because there isn't an alternative, and kind of giving up, why don't we drop it?
[20:32] <micahg> xpaint seems to have the same "features" in th wiki
[20:33] <ochosi> we could also switch back to shipping gthumb and drop ristretto and gimp
[20:34] <genii> Too bad theres no gimp-minimal
[20:34] <Unit193> Meh, always thought gthumb was useless.
[20:34] <knome> micahg, no version update since precise
[20:34] <micahg> isn't it a little late in the cycle to be updating seeds?
[20:34] <knome> yeah, let's not reintroduce gthumb
[20:34] <Unit193> micahg: For wombat.
[20:34] <micahg> ah
[20:34] <Unit193> I'd like to table this so we can move on to the next disucssion that's neverending. :P
[20:35] <knome> ochosi, we can write a small script set that allowed the user to handle their images from thunar
[20:35] <knome> ochosi, just link that to a custom action for all images.
[20:35] <knome> resize, rotate, you name it
[20:35] <ochosi> you mean via imagemagick?
[20:35] <knome> yep.
[20:36] <knome> those who need more complex tools can install one from the repositories
[20:36] <dkessel> +1
[20:36] <ochosi> we can also try to add those features to ristretto at some point
[20:36] <knome> imagemagick can even write text
[20:36] <knome> so you can do a lolcat generator
[20:37] <ochosi> ouch
[20:37] <micahg> what about shutter?
[20:37] <knome> well i mean, wasn't that one of our prerequisites for the iamge editor...
[20:37] <knome> micahg, the right place to do proposals for apps is the mailing list thread
[20:38] <knome> i don't think it's a good use of everybody's time to mull over those in a meeting
[20:38] <Unit193> We're discussing it now. :P
[20:38] <ochosi> isn't that a screenshot tool?
[20:38] <micahg> yes, but it does have a nice editor in it
[20:38] <ochosi> oh
[20:38] <ochosi> i didn't know about that
[20:38] <micahg> 2 for 1 :)
[20:38] <knome> we have the xfce screenshooter..
[20:39] <Unit193> Description does seem very screenshooter centric.
[20:39] <knome> Unit193, and their website is awful without js..
[20:40] <dkessel> Doesn't look like it can open existing files, or can it?
[20:41] <micahg> yes, it can
[20:42] <ochosi> generally speaking, i don't mind dropping one of our apps for 15.10, also in terms of getting user feedback (i know, the vocal minority and all, but better than no feedback)
[20:42] <knome> set up a team vote and get on with it.
[20:42] <knome> :
[20:42] <knome> :)
[20:43] <ochosi> we can do one now if you guys and gals agree that that's a good idea :)
[20:43] <ochosi> it's sorta funky timing with 15.04 not even released, but whatever
[20:44] <elfy> it'll get some votes done, rest of team can vote on m/l
[20:44]  * slickymaster agrees with elfy
[20:44] <knome> wfm
[20:45] <knome> Unit193, shall you set the poll up?
[20:45] <Unit193> #vote Drop The GIMP from the default seed
[20:45] <meetingology> Please vote on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed
[20:45] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:45] <knome> does +1 mean drop?
[20:45] <ochosi> yeah
[20:45] <Unit193> Yes.
[20:45] <Unit193> -1
[20:45] <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
[20:45] <knome> just making sure.
[20:45] <knome> +1
[20:45] <meetingology> +1 received from knome
[20:45] <micahg> -1
[20:45] <meetingology> -1 received from micahg
[20:45] <elfy> +0
[20:45] <meetingology> +0 received from elfy
[20:45] <ochosi> +0
[20:45] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[20:45] <Unit193> slickymaster
[20:46] <knome> elfy, ochosi: does "+0" mean that you don't mind if it's in the seed or not? and if yes, wouldn't it mean it's better not to be on the seed since it can save space and hassle?
[20:46] <knome> not trying to impact your opinion, just asking.
[20:46] <slickymaster> +0
[20:46] <meetingology> +0 received from slickymaster
[20:46] <Unit193> #endvote
[20:46] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Drop The GIMP from the default seed
[20:46] <meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:2 Abstentions:3
[20:46] <meetingology> Motion denied
[20:46] <knome> slickymaster, ^ same question to you
[20:46] <elfy> I've no opinion on it - hence sitting on the fence
[20:47] <slickymaster> exactly what you said knome, I don't mind if it's on the seed or not.
[20:47] <Unit193> So, ochosi to carry over to the mailing list?
[20:47] <ochosi> allllright
[20:47] <knome> slickymaster, what about the second question?
[20:48] <Unit193> #action ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list.
[20:48] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up with the gimp discussion on the list.
[20:48]  * slickymaster lost that one
[20:48] <slickymaster> what was it again knome?
[20:48] <ochosi> knome: it can save space, not sure it'll really save us hassle. so far i don't remember any really critical bugreport related to gimp for us
[20:48] <ochosi> but yeah, i'm open to dropping it
[20:48] <elfy> moving on perhaps
[20:48] <knome> slickymaster, that if you don't care, wouldn't it pragmatically be better to drop it since it would save space and potential hassle
[20:48] <ochosi> not convinced, but ok with it
[20:48] <Unit193> #subtopic Default office applications (mailing list discussion)
[20:49] <Unit193> elfy: Please, yes.
[20:49] <ochosi> oh man, and another one...
[20:49] <knome> but yeah, no need to stretch the discussion...
[20:49] <slickymaster> tbh I usualy uninistall it knome
[20:49] <elfy> we've had the discussions haven't we?
[20:49] <Unit193> Yeah, so LO is much bigger, but more compatible.
[20:49] <Unit193> elfy: Not in meeting.
[20:49] <knome> elfy, yes, on the mailing list
[20:50] <elfy> I'm putting the kettle on ...
[20:50] <ochosi> elfy: make some for me too
[20:50] <Unit193> Right, so it's been discussed.  Anyone ready to make a motion as to voting?
[20:51] <ochosi> but the vote would be to just drop abiword/gnumeric or replace them with LO?
[20:51] <Unit193> ochosi: Exactly, hence why I didn't just make one.
[20:52] <ochosi> knome: ?
[20:52] <knome> ochosi, i imagine two polls.
[20:52] <Unit193> There's also online docs which people use, so dropping is an option.
[20:52] <knome> ochosi, 1) frop abiword/gnumeric or not?
[20:52] <knome> *drop
[20:52] <knome> ochosi, if 1) yes, 2) install LO?
[20:52] <elfy> yes - but vote 2 could depend on vote 1
[20:52] <ochosi> k, i'd be fine with two
[20:52] <knome> elfy, yep.
[20:52] <Unit193> #vote drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
[20:52] <meetingology> Please vote on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
[20:52] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:52] <micahg> -1
[20:52] <meetingology> -1 received from micahg
[20:52] <ochosi> +1
[20:52] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[20:52] <elfy> +1
[20:52] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[20:52] <knome> and to make sure, +1 is DROP, -1 is NO DROP
[20:52] <slickymaster> +1
[20:52] <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
[20:53] <knome> blah.
[20:53] <ochosi> knome: yeah yeah ;)
[20:53] <Unit193> -1
[20:53] <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
[20:53] <knome> ochosi, for the log readers and all.
[20:53] <knome> +0
[20:53] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[20:53] <Unit193> Think that's everyone now.
[20:53] <ochosi> yup
[20:53] <Unit193> #endvote
[20:53] <meetingology> Voting ended on: drop gnumeric/abiword from the seed
[20:53] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:2 Abstentions:1
[20:53] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:54] <Unit193> Right, anyone wanting to carry that to the list? knome?
[20:54] <elfy> and the next one is to have calc and writer only?
[20:54] <knome> nnooo
[20:54] <slickymaster> lol
[20:54] <ochosi> knome: sure you do ;)
[20:54] <knome> ochosi can do that in the same email
[20:54] <Unit193> #vote Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
[20:54] <meetingology> Please vote on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
[20:54] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[20:54] <Unit193> -1
[20:54] <meetingology> -1 received from Unit193
[20:54] <micahg> -1
[20:54] <meetingology> -1 received from micahg
[20:54] <knome> -1
[20:54] <meetingology> -1 received from knome
[20:54] <elfy> +1
[20:54] <meetingology> +1 received from elfy
[20:54] <slickymaster> +1
[20:54] <meetingology> +1 received from slickymaster
[20:54] <ochosi> knome: no, that would be too confusing
[20:54] <knome> ochosi, :P
[20:55] <knome> ochosi, i'll do it then... but in a way, this vote makes no sense until the vote on the ML has ended
[20:55] <Unit193> ochosi: Votre, man!
[20:55] <ochosi> oui!
[20:55] <knome> because if most people want to keep abiword/gnumeric, we aren't installing LO..
[20:55] <ochosi> +0
[20:55] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[20:56] <Unit193> #endvote
[20:56] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Add Libreoffice or parts of it to the seed
[20:56] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:3 Abstentions:1
[20:56] <meetingology> Motion denied
[20:56] <knome> ochosi, hah :P
[20:56] <slickymaster> so, no LO, no abiword and gnumeric
[20:56] <Unit193> #action ochosi to follow up the office discussion on the ML.
[20:56] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to follow up the office discussion on the ML.
[20:56] <slickymaster> :P
[20:56] <knome> yeah, based on this portion of the team
[20:56] <knome> oopsie. now ochosi has to do it
[20:56] <ochosi> Unit193: maaaan
[20:57] <Unit193> #subtopic Default game change (mailing list discussion)
[20:57] <knome> woohoo!
[20:57] <micahg> hrm, I really think it needs to be one vote, unless we're looking to not have a replacement (or there are other alternatives besides LO(
[20:57] <elfy> and this one - I assume we're talking about sgt ?
[20:57] <Unit193> micahg: Well, technically online docs or the KDE one.
[20:57] <Unit193> elfy: It's whatever you put on there. :D
[20:58] <knome> i would vote for the sgt-puzzles on ONE CONDITION
[20:58] <elfy> Unit193: I didn't ...
[20:58] <Unit193> It doesn't look so ugly?
[20:58] <knome> that somebody (bluesabre) makes a game selector app for it
[20:58] <knome> and that it only appears as one menu item, not bazillion
[20:58] <knome> currently it's too obtrusive.
[20:58] <elfy> I'd not say that
[20:59] <knome> ...in my opinion
[20:59] <knome> :P
[20:59] <elfy> unless you happen to have bunches of games installed :)
[20:59] <elfy> then I'd agree with you
[20:59] <knome> i have a few to tenish depending on the machine
[21:00] <knome> the sheer amount of games is baffling.
[21:00] <knome> i wouldn't say it would be best to split them to separate packages...
[21:00] <knome> ...but i'd like that personally. i only fancy less than 10 of them anyway
[21:01] <elfy> shall we shelve this and see what bluesabre's opinion on that possibility is first?
[21:01] <ochosi> fwiw, i'll put the office vote-stuff in one email since the votes are directly related
[21:01] <knome> ochosi, yep.
[21:01] <knome> elfy, he's said it's possible, i wouldn't have brought it up otherwise :)
[21:01] <Unit193> elfy: Yes, was thinking the same.
[21:02] <elfy> knome: I assumed but that gets tricky in months time ;)
[21:02] <knome> elfy, because?
[21:02] <elfy> because then I find that what I assumed isn't the case ;)
[21:03] <knome> heh
[21:03] <Unit193> knome: How would you like to carry it on?  Re: meetingology?
[21:03] <knome> we can surely get an official response from sean to this
[21:03] <elfy> and it'spossible isn't the same as it's possible and I've got time
[21:03] <knome> i guess: what do other people feel about sgt-puxxles?
[21:03] <knome> s/xx/zz/
[21:03] <elfy> s'ok
[21:04] <knome> is it worth even investigating to creating a game selector
[21:04] <slickymaster> I don't know it, but I honestly don't pay attention to games
[21:04] <elfy> I just think that 'games' in our install is stale - all we seem to have done is remove a couple and leave it
[21:04] <knome> briefly, it's a collection of dozens of small puzzle games
[21:04] <knome> that are a great short distraction
[21:05] <knome> not something you'd play for hours
[21:06] <Unit193> So, I'm hearing a "Why bother?" "I don't really care." and "They are a short distraction."
[21:06] <slickymaster> the way I see the discussion about the games is that everyone always use the argument that people paly them while installing the iso
[21:07] <knome> Unit193, i was trying to give a brief description for them. i'm all +1 if we can get the number of menu items down.
[21:07] <elfy> and I'm +1 for ringing the changes
[21:07] <Unit193> knome: Right, yours seems to reflect that.
[21:07] <micahg> needs to use exo-open or xdg-open
[21:07] <micahg> with that change, I'd be ok including it
[21:07] <knome> on the other hand, if we decided to ship no games, i would be completely fine with that too
[21:08] <elfy> mmm
[21:08] <Unit193> Alright, so lets carry this forward to when bluesabre is here, alright?
[21:08] <knome> so to be crystal clear...
[21:08] <elfy> then if we go that way and no abiword/gnumeric or replacement - just work with core
[21:08] <knome> i'm "+0" on "ship games or not ship games", but if we are shipping, then i'm "+1 sgt-puzzles if they have a single launcher"
[21:09] <Unit193> Good to know.
[21:09] <knome> elfy, but ff/tb/etc
[21:09] <Unit193> elfy: There's still afew things.
[21:09] <elfy> Unit193: I'm good with getting bluesabre's input before deciding
[21:09] <elfy> Unit193: yea :)
[21:09] <elfy> knome: ^^
[21:09] <knome> #action knome to be in touch with bluesabre on sgt-puzzles launcher
[21:09] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to be in touch with bluesabre on sgt-puzzles launcher
[21:09] <knome> move on.
[21:10] <Unit193> Great.
[21:10] <Unit193> #subtopic March/Beta 2 Incentive winners
[21:10] <elfy> again ...
[21:10] <elfy> I info'd that
[21:10] <elfy> and I've mailed them both already
[21:10] <Unit193> Yep, it was there, wasn't sure if there's anything else to discuss.
[21:10] <Unit193> Alright, so we're moving on then.
[21:10] <elfy> I do have a point
[21:10] <elfy> however ...
[21:10] <Unit193> Ah, great.
[21:11] <elfy> all the time we've been discussing this I've been - shouldn't include team
[21:11] <elfy> but as I do the figures every month I feel rather sorry for jjfrv8 ;)
[21:11] <elfy> who tests like a ninja
[21:12] <ochosi> we could give him an honorary sticker?
[21:12] <elfy> or do a whole cycle for team winner set
[21:12] <elfy> excluding me though
[21:13] <ochosi> right, i'd be fine with either
[21:13] <ochosi> personally, i dont think we have to make a rule up for everything
[21:13] <elfy> ok - I'll check with pleia2 to make sure we've got enough - pretty sure we do
[21:13] <Unit193> Action? :D
[21:13] <elfy> unless anyone has an issue with that ofc
[21:13] <knome> practically, we will run out of non-team testers who haven't won soon anyway...
[21:13]  * knome hides
[21:14] <slickymaster> bad knome
[21:14] <knome> baaa-aa-aaaa!
[21:14] <elfy> knome: I'm only too aware of how few people we have testing that tell us :(
[21:15] <elfy> Unit193: if nothing else - point made :)
[21:15] <Unit193> elfy: Ta.
[21:15] <ochosi> i'm actually more optimistic after seeing the numbers
[21:15] <Unit193> #topic Announcements
[21:15] <elfy> final freeze next week
[21:16] <knome> the numbers aren't too bad.
[21:16] <elfy> and RC testing
[21:16] <elfy> if they do that
[21:16] <Unit193> #info 9th Non-Language Pack Translation Deadline
[21:16] <elfy> if not Final Release testing the following week
[21:16] <slickymaster> next thursday that one Unit193
[21:16] <Unit193> #info 16th Final Freeze
[21:17] <knome> slickymaster, "9th"
[21:17] <Unit193> slickymaster: Calendar seems to think 9th.
[21:17] <elfy> slickymaster: not according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[21:17] <Unit193> #info 26th Xubuntu 12.04 EOL
[21:17] <Unit193> Any others? micahg ?
[21:17] <slickymaster> btw knome, did you saw isn't next thursday the 9th?!
[21:17] <slickymaster> lol
[21:17] <elfy> oh yea - we going to do an announce on blog for 12.04 ?
[21:17] <slickymaster> isn't next thursday the 9th?!
[21:17] <micahg> Unit193: you mean 10.04 EOL?
[21:18] <micahg> oh, no, that's right
[21:18] <Unit193> micahg: Xubuntu went for 3.
[21:18] <knome> micahg, no, xubuntu 12.04 has only 3 years support..
[21:18] <Unit193> Hah, oh well. D:
[21:18] <knome> slickymaster, Unit193 is right.
[21:18] <knome> #info 16th LanguagePackTranslationDeadline
[21:20] <Unit193> #topic anything else?
[21:20] <Unit193> Schedule next meeting
[21:20] <knome> who's in turn order :P
[21:20] <elfy> slickymaster next
[21:20] <Unit193> Great, slickymaster has to schedule it, and all that jazz! :D
[21:20] <slickymaster> I'll do that later
[21:20] <Unit193> #endmeeting
[21:20] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  7 21:20:58 2015 UTC.
[21:20] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-04-07-20.00.moin.txt
[21:21] <slickymaster> not sure of my schedule for the coming days
[21:21] <elfy> thanks Unit193 for your impeccable hanging about to run it for us :)
[21:21] <slickymaster> ditto
[21:21] <slickymaster> thanks Unit193
[21:21] <ochosi> +1
[21:21] <Unit193> Sure.
[21:23] <ochosi> k, mails sent
[21:23] <elfy> thanks
[21:23] <Unit193> Great, danke.
[21:24]  * knome bows
[21:24] <Unit193> micahg: Thanks for turning up, always nice to have you.
[21:24] <knome> Unit193, "...as lunch"?
[21:24] <knome> om nom nom nom nom
[21:25] <micahg> Unit193: thanks
[21:25] <Unit193> He knows processes real well, very handy.
[21:26] <Unit193> == PART2 (only if PART1 is carried) ==  you mean, don't ship bother LO and GNOME office? :(
[21:27] <knome> Unit193, ship lo, oo, gnome office and m$ word.
[21:28] <ochosi> we'll ship all of that for 16.04 ;)
[21:28] <elfy> I'll hang about a bit longer then
[21:29] <Unit193> knome: calligra too!
[21:29] <elfy> oh
[21:29] <elfy> can we swap gmb for clementine now then
[21:30] <knome> Unit193, and openttd.
[21:30] <Unit193> Sure, no problem.  Ship nightingale too.
[21:30] <knome> elfy, no, but we can ship them both.
[21:30] <Unit193> xubuntu-full!
[21:30] <knome> xubuntu-favorite-media-players
[21:30] <ochosi> and vlc!
[21:30] <elfy> ha ha ha
[21:30] <knome> eg. every media player on the repositories
[21:31]  * elfy bets a cuppa he's tried them already
[21:32] <knome> lol
[21:32] <knome> just a cuppa... no gamble there
[21:32] <elfy> ok  ....
[21:33] <drc> cuppa of 20 year old scotch
[21:33]  * elfy bets the first cuppa of the day he's tried them already
[21:33] <knome> :D
[21:33] <knome> elfy, doesn't the second one become the first then? :(
[21:34] <elfy> too confusing by half
[21:35] <Unit193> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-gimpy
[21:36] <knome> fancy. Unit193 uses pad
[21:36] <Unit193> Only because I'm already logged in, won't touch it again though.
[21:37] <elfy> mmm
[21:37] <elfy> so you started it - but won't get to the end?
[21:38] <Unit193> Nope, Ubuntu login will anger me and disallow me to login.
[21:46] <bluesabre> gooooooooooooood evening!
[21:46] <bluesabre> :D
[21:46] <elfy> bluesabre: !!!
[21:46] <elfy> we pinged you loads :p
[21:46] <bluesabre> thunderstorming here, so likelyhood of having internet long is low
[21:46] <bluesabre> saw all the pings
[21:46] <bluesabre> where to start... :)
[21:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: your proposed xfdesktop patch will leave us with no icons on the desktop if ubiquity fails or is cancelled
[21:47] <bluesabre> since it sets the xfconf settings
[21:48] <bluesabre> making a launcher should be fairly simple, may need some artwork drawn, or a mockup of what we want
[21:49] <bluesabre> we might be able to take it further and embed the game windows, maybe
[21:49] <bluesabre> but a launcher is easier and faster
[21:49] <knome> bluesabre, just a dropdown or selection list would suffice.
[21:50] <bluesabre> knome: how many games are in the package?
[21:50] <knome> artwork? i guess you can use the game icons if you want to be fancy :)
[21:50] <knome> bluesabre, like 20-30
[21:50] <bluesabre> yeah, I was thinking of a nice icon or card-style launcher
[21:50] <knome> bluesabre, and it's possible that it grows, so the solution needs to take that into account
[21:50] <bluesabre> k, good to know
[21:51] <elfy> bluesabre: on a 1920x1080 monitor - expanding whisker to top - just about grabs them all
[21:51] <bluesabre> yikes
[21:51] <elfy> yep - yikes
[21:51] <bluesabre> I might start hacking something together for that this week
[21:51] <bluesabre> maybe
[21:51] <bluesabre> :)
[21:52] <bluesabre> maybe even a more generic xfce games launcher like settings manager
[21:52] <elfy> so entirely possible and something that we could get voted on next time then
[21:52] <bluesabre> yeah, definitely doable
[21:53] <ochosi> bluesabre: if ubiquity fails? but yeah, i mean that's the same that would happen with feh... and we still have a right-click menu on the desktop
[21:53] <bluesabre> nope
[21:53] <bluesabre> with feh, the normal session is start
[21:54] <bluesabre> with xfdesktop, the normal session is started
[21:54] <ochosi> ?
[21:54] <bluesabre> the difference is that xfconf holds the persistent setting that we apply
[21:54] <knome> bluesabre, start with one for sgt-puzzles, and consider the work you need to do to add it in the package too :P
[21:54] <ochosi> yeah, but only in the ubiquity-dm-only sessio
[21:54] <ochosi> n
[21:55] <bluesabre> xfconf settings are per-user, does the ubiquity session use a different user?
[21:55] <ochosi> hm, let me quickly test that
[21:55] <elfy> can I just ask a question here, why do we actually have the extra screen at all?
[21:56] <ochosi> well, it's already there, i don't think we can do anything about it
[21:56] <elfy> lubuntu doesn't have it
[21:56] <ochosi> it doesn't?
[21:56] <elfy> not that I remember
[21:57] <bluesabre> extra screen as in Install/Live ?
[21:57] <ochosi> yeah
[21:57] <elfy> I'll shut up now till I double check that
[21:59] <ochosi> i guess the installer session only makes sense if it uses significantly less memory
[22:00] <elfy> can't check lubuntu fails with that horrid pwconv /etc/passwd 0600 issue atm
[22:00] <ochosi> 243MiB for the installer
[22:00] <pleia2> elfy: we have plenty of stickers, just tell me where to send them and happy to
[22:01] <elfy> pleia2: okey doke :)
[22:01] <pleia2> elfy: also, at the end of the cycle I think maybe a blog post that lists all the winners and thanks them again
[22:01] <pleia2> since we haven't done a great job of celebrating them on social media (my fault)
[22:02] <elfy> pleia2: that sounds useful for sure
[22:02] <elfy> and next week or so will do a reminder of it pre-final testing, so when that comes up - social mediaing it would be good :)
[22:03] <elfy> and with that - the day's done for me :)
[22:03] <elfy> night all
[22:03] <ochosi> bluesabre: crap yeah, so it's persistent :/
[22:05] <pleia2> elfy: yep, just ping me, I'm traveling again next week so will need poking :)
[22:05]  * bluesabre is delighted and saddened that he is right at the same time
[22:06] <ochosi> so installer (243MiB) vs. live (297MiB)
[22:06] <ochosi> elfy: ^
[22:07] <ochosi> actually the xfce session itself is really light (~215MiB), ubiquity is a huge memory hog
[22:10] <Unit193> ochosi: Helps more for Unity.
[22:10] <ochosi> yeah ofc
[22:46] <ochosi> bluesabre: i pushed some tiny fixes/improvements to parole today btw
[22:47] <bluesabre> ochosi: I saw, nice work :)
[22:49] <ochosi> oh, and i updated the parole docs
[22:49] <ochosi> added that hidden setting there
[22:49] <ochosi> (the timeout for hiding the controls)
[22:51] <Subsentient> ochosi: you're an XFCE dev then?
[22:51] <ochosi> yup
[22:51] <Subsentient> ochosi: On the topic of parole, I can't get it to link against gtk2.
[22:51] <Subsentient> I'm using 0.5.x as a result
[22:51] <ochosi> yeah, we dropped gtk2 support after 0.5
[22:52] <Subsentient> Damn
[22:52] <ochosi> so that's very much expected
[22:52] <Subsentient> Couldn't just keep both available?
[22:52] <ochosi> nope
[22:53] <Subsentient> I suppose I can kinda see why that might be, but it's unfortunate nonetheless.
[22:53] <micahg> I don't know if we'll get rid of GTK2 for 16.04, hopeful for 18.04
[22:53] <Subsentient> It's a shame. I liked gtk2.
[22:54] <micahg> yes, but it's not really supported anymore
[22:54] <micahg> (by GNOME)
[22:54] <Subsentient> I know.
[22:54] <Subsentient> It's still good code. I'll miss it. GTK 3 is alright, but I'd still rather have gtk 2. :^)
[22:57] <Subsentient> ochosi: Oh, BTW, I should probably put it on the tracker but I'm lazier than a slot stuck in tar, so I wanted to just ask if the devs were aware of clicking "arrange icons" usually placing some of them offscreen on 4.12
[22:57] <Subsentient> sloth*
[23:00] <ochosi> i think there are some fixes for that already
[23:01] <Subsentient> Yeh I compiled 4.12 the day after it came out. :^D
[23:01] <Subsentient> The new power manager is pretty nice
[23:01] <ochosi> thanks
[23:02] <knome> Subsentient, i very much encourage you to report bugs and test results. it helps us as lot.
[23:11] <Unit193> Subsentient: Whatcha doin' with aqu4?
[23:12] <Subsentient> Unit193: I just like keeping her around in channels I frequent for logging and utility purposes. She won't bother anyone.
[23:22] <Unit193> !1984
[23:27] <knome> Subsentient, may i ask you, what might the utility purpose be? and, are the logs private only, or can somebody else get access to them as well?