[05:07] <brylie> I am having trouble pushing files to launchpad via bazaar
[05:08] <brylie> I have done 'bzr add filename'
[05:09] <brylie> and bzr status lists the files I have added
[05:09] <brylie> when I do 'bzr push<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[05:09] <brylie> it comes back with 'No new revisions to push.'
[05:10] <LaserJock> did you do a bzr commit ?
[05:10] <brylie> not today
[05:10] <LaserJock> you have to commit your changes before you can push them
[05:10] <brylie> I can't remember what I did the other nite. very new to bazaar here
[05:11] <brylie> bzr commit opened nano
[05:11] <brylie> save and exit?
[05:12] <LaserJock> yeah, write your commit message, save and exit
[05:12] <LaserJock> that will commit your changes locally
[05:12] <brylie> commit message == changelog?
[05:12] <LaserJock> yeah, sorta
[05:13] <brylie> basically descriptive text though right?
[05:13] <LaserJock> yes
[05:13] <LaserJock> what you changed
[05:15] <brylie> ok.. now 'bzr diff' returns nothing. That means that the files are synced?
[05:15] <LaserJock> to your local branch yes
[05:30] <brylie> ok now a colleague is having trouble accessing the data
[05:30] <LaserJock> did you push it?
[05:30] <brylie> 'bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~brylie/gnumedia/0.1a2 temp'
[05:30] <brylie> Yes the data is there.
[05:30] <brylie> He can browse it online.
[05:30] <LaserJock> try bzr branch
[05:31] <brylie> him or I?
[05:31] <LaserJock> him
[05:31] <brylie> ok I told him
[05:31] <brylie> he did
[05:32] <brylie> didn't work. He can't join irc for some reason either. I wonder if the two issues are related.
[05:33] <brylie> 'bzr branch http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~brylie/gnumedia/0.1a2 anyname' is what he says he typed
[05:34] <LaserJock> brylie: it works for me
[05:34] <jsgotangco> hmm
[05:34] <brylie> ok, yea, it works for me as well. I just wasn't sure if it might have been a privlages thing.
[05:35] <jsgotangco> who is Jeroen Vermeulen? Sorry need to ask, saw on TOSSFEST agenda representing LP
[05:35] <brylie> this is the error he gets: http://python.pastebin.com/938067
[05:35] <jml> jsgotangco: jtv on IRC.
[05:35] <jml> no. wait
[05:35] <jml> I maybe have the wrong Jeroen.
[05:35] <jsgotangco> ahh cool, so he's based in Bangkok, will be there as well
[05:36] <jml> No, I have the right one. Good good.
[05:36] <jsgotangco> cool I'll probably say hi =)
[05:37] <jsgotangco> thanks
[05:39] <brylie> he's using bzr --version 0.11.0
[05:39] <brylie> can he manually get 0.15.0?
[05:40] <brylie> he's on a debian system
[05:40] <brylie> etch
[05:41] <LaserJock> brylie: I belive the bzr people have a repo for Debian and Ubuntu
[05:41] <LaserJock> brylie: check out bazaar-vcs.org
[05:42] <brylie> ok thank you Jock
[06:00] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[06:22] <brylie> hi mpt
[06:41] <brylie> haw does one create a launchpad team so that multiple people can collaborate on a project branch? this article https://help.launchpad.net/FeatureHighlights/TeamBranches doesn't tell how to initally create a team.
[06:43] <brylie> there is no team creation choice under 'register branch' or 'register series'
[06:43] <LaserJock> brylie: https://launchpad.net/people/+newteam
[06:44] <brylie> thanks LaserJock
[06:45] <brylie> it seems to me that the documentation/instructions for new users can use some improvement. Wiki based docs are good, but the site UI isn't the most intuitive imo :)
[09:01] <carlos> morning
[09:04] <Hobbsee> morning carlos!
[11:15] <ubotu> New bug: #122778 in launchpad "Speed up pagetest helpers by using SoupStrainer" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122778
[12:20] <ubotu> New bug: #122785 in launchpad-answers "Display questions in orphaned projects that need love" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122785
[01:30] <cprov> morning, guys
[01:39] <mdz> cprov: good morning
[01:39] <mdz> cprov: bug 121606 is now marked fix released. so it is fixed in production?
[01:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121606 in soyuz "changelog-closes-bugs does not work any more since today's rollout" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121606 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[01:39] <mdz> cprov: does this mean that build-from-accepted is re-enabled as well?
[01:40] <cprov> mdz: yes, both features are available in production.
[02:09] <TeTeT> is there a way to change the 'best answer' in the answer tracker once it was assigned?
[02:10] <PriceChild> Is there anymore email madness going on right now...? I just got an email about bug 110212 and I can't figure out why... (to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 110212 in firefox "[FEISTY]  firefox crashed [@nsHTMLContainerFrame::CreateViewForFrame]  [@nsCSSFrameConstructor::BeginBuildingScrollFrame] " [High,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/110212 - Assigned to Mozilla Bugs (mozilla-bugs)
[02:13] <matsubara> PriceChild: because you're subscribed to it
[02:14] <PriceChild> easy answer :)
[02:14] <PriceChild> *wonders why he's subscribed to it*
[02:14] <PriceChild> right ignore me... i posted in it
[02:14] <PriceChild> Sorry for wasting your time matsubara.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> a question...
[02:32] <Hobbsee> why cant team contacts set the importance of bugs, like they can the WONTFIX or TRIAGED?      Please keep any comments on topic.
[04:02] <nve> SteveA, how is it on topic of Hobbsee to tell me to "fuck off"?
[04:03] <kiko> can we please have the meeting?
[04:03] <nve> of course
[04:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Bug report ([wiki:JoeyStanford/topweeklybugs Current Top Items] )
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[04:03] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Launchpad News blog (mrevell)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Meetings in London (kiko)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * (other items)
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:03] <SteveA>
[04:04] <SteveA> next meeting, same time next week
[04:04] <SteveA> will anyone be absent?
[04:04] <kiko> hmmmm. no, I'll be here.
[04:04] <Hobbsee> <apologies for his idiocy.  he should be klined soon>
[04:04] <salgado> I'll be on holidays
[04:04] <thumper> me
[04:04] <thumper> sort of absent
[04:04] <schwuk> abel and I will be on the sprint with you, but that doesn't stop us from attending
[04:05] <SteveA> actually, you'll be sprinting with stub
[04:05] <SteveA> I may pop in for a day or two, but I'll not be there generally
[04:06] <SteveA> Actions from last meeting
[04:06] <SteveA> there were none
[04:06] <SteveA> OOPS report: matsubara
[04:06] <matsubara> Thanks allenp for fixing bug 121567
[04:06] <matsubara> Thanks adeuring for fixing bug 121550
[04:06] <matsubara> Thanks danilos for fixing bugs 121582, 121558 and 122537
[04:06] <matsubara> Thanks salgado for fixing bug 121571
[04:06] <matsubara> Thanks mthaddon for all the cherrypicks.
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121567 in malone "AttributeError using old bookmarks in person bugs page" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121567 - Assigned to Gavin Panella (allenap)
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121550 in malone "Bug search URLs don't accept empty field.status_upstream parameters anymore" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121550 - Assigned to abel (adeuring)
[04:06] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bug 58220.
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121582 in rosetta "Duplicate msgsets in +translate" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121582 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121558 in rosetta "TraversalError in translation page" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121558 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122537 in rosetta "is_same_translator comparison is broken" [Critical,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122537 - Assigned to   (danilo)
[04:06] <ubotu> Bug 121571 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/121571 is private
[04:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 58220 in launchpad "When an error occurs processing a request another oops is recorded because there's no interaction set up." [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58220 - Assigned to James Henstridge (jamesh)
[04:06] <matsubara> jamesh, I commented on #58220. It seems that even with your fix the oops page
[04:06] <matsubara> isn't rendered. Would you follow up on the bug please?
[04:07] <jamesh> matsubara: yeah.  need to look into it further.
[04:07] <kiko> matsubara, how are our UnicodeDecodeErrors looking?
[04:07] <kiko> I saw a number of assorted oopses yesterday
[04:08] <kiko> matsubara, danilos: is the TypeError in +translate known too?
[04:09] <kiko> finally, can we ever fix this Surrogate thing?
[04:09] <danilos> kiko: that's a 121582, should be fixed already
[04:09] <matsubara> kiko: it's that UDE from the broken spam bot. I think, it triggers the exception while rendering the template (zope code). I don't know how to catch that exception and re-raise as the new suggested exception (CrapUnicodeException)
[04:09] <mdz> cprov: thanks
[04:09] <danilos> kiko: does it still occur?
[04:09] <kiko> danilos, no, looks cool.
[04:09] <matsubara> kiko: the typeerror is fixed already
[04:09] <danilos> kiko: ok, thanks
[04:10] <matsubara> kiko: the surrogate thing is a corner case in zope and is assigned to SteveA. doesn't happen that often, though
[04:10] <SteveA> kiko: we cannot fix the surrogatet thing right now
[04:10] <SteveA> kiko: we will look at it again after we upgrade to the latest zope3
[04:10] <kiko> SteveA, should we move it to an UFD or something?
[04:10] <kiko> a UFS.
[04:10] <SteveA> kiko: it's not a priority though
[04:10] <kiko> err a UFD.
[04:10] <SteveA> UFS?
[04:10] <kiko> yeah
[04:10] <matsubara> what?
[04:10] <SteveA> it's not UFD
[04:10] <SteveA> what makes no sense
[04:10] <kiko> so what is it?
[04:10] <kiko> if it's not fixable, let's move it out?
[04:10] <SteveA> it's something that breaks in the zope component architecture
[04:10] <cprov> mdz: np, it will be more significant once gutsy is back DEVELOPMENT state. Looking forward to know the archive-admins impressions
[04:10] <SteveA> eh?
[04:11] <SteveA> kiko: I don't understand what you mean
[04:11] <SteveA> it's a failure
[04:11] <SteveA> an error
[04:11] <SteveA> something fails, so we should have an OOPS
[04:11] <matsubara> kiko: bug 52574, btw
[04:11] <kiko> does it inconvenience end-users?
[04:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 52574 in launchpad "Surrogate error in Zope component architecture leading to an OOPS" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/52574
[04:11] <SteveA> yes
[04:11] <SteveA> always
[04:11] <kiko> okay
[04:12] <kiko> wow
[04:12] <matsubara> kiko: I can chat with later about the UDE the broken bot is triggering.
[04:12] <kiko> it happens in many different situations
[04:12] <SteveA> it's a deep error
[04:13] <SteveA> and hard to reproduce
[04:13] <SteveA> and rare enough not to be a huge issue so far
[04:13] <kiko> how very interesting.
[04:13] <SteveA> we must keep tracking it
[04:13] <kiko> okay
[04:13] <SteveA> and check if it is increased or reduced with zope3 upgrades
[04:14] <SteveA> matsubara: anything more on oopses?
[04:14] <matsubara> SteveA: I'm done here. Thank you
[04:14] <SteveA> thanks matsubara
[04:14] <SteveA>  * Bug report ([wiki:JoeyStanford/topweeklybugs Current Top Items] )
[04:14] <Rinchen> Bjorn are you taking bug 121363?
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121363 in malone "Order 'most recently closed' on 'Bugtask.id DESC' instead of 'BugTask.id'" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121363
[04:14] <kiko> hmmm
[04:14] <Rinchen> mwh, are you taking bug 122169?
[04:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122169 in launchpad-bazaar "500 Internal error from codebrowse" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122169
[04:15] <mwhudson> Rinchen: yes, it's fixed locally
[04:15] <Rinchen> thumper, is jml taking bug 122268?
[04:15] <ubotu> Bug 122268 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/122268 is private
[04:15] <thumper> Rinchen: yes
[04:15] <Rinchen> carlos, are you taking bug 122363?
[04:15] <ubotu> Bug 122363 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/122363 is private
[04:15] <mdz> cprov: gutsy is already back in development state
[04:15] <Rinchen> mwhudson, tahnks
[04:15] <Rinchen> thumper thanks
[04:15] <BjornT> Rinchen: sure. but is that bug really critical? i couldn't find it in any of the recent oops reports.
[04:16] <carlos> Rinchen: it's fixed and waiting for BjornT to get a merge approval
[04:16] <Rinchen> carlos, great thanks
[04:16] <carlos> Rinchen: I did it in one of my postmerge reviews, where I detected it
[04:16] <kiko> BjornT, isn't it a timeout issue?
[04:16] <stub> BjornT: I don't think it is critical anymore
[04:16] <stub> Just high (so the index is used)
[04:17] <kiko> okay.
[04:17] <kiko> done
[04:17] <Rinchen> ok, kiko moved it to high so it'll drop from my list
[04:17] <Rinchen> SteveA, done
[04:17] <BjornT> carlos: what's pending on my approval? it doesn't seem to be in my review queue.
[04:17] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen
[04:17] <SteveA> there are no new launchpad bug tags
[04:18] <carlos> BjornT: I'm adding it right now. It was a postmerge review
[04:18] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:18] <carlos> so it was not following hte usual procedures
[04:18] <mthaddon> Production rollout and lots of cherry picks.
[04:18] <mthaddon> Overwritten edge with devel (10 mins ago, so will take a while to propogate).
[04:18] <mthaddon> Working on app server reconfig.
[04:18] <mthaddon> Need to discuss how to deal with special case of yesterday's rollout but not sure if this is the time to do that...
[04:18] <cprov> mdz: yes, it is, since 14:15:14 +0100 (BST)today. I will check the logs this evening and assure the throughput has increased.
[04:18] <kiko> mthaddon, what special case?
[04:18] <carlos> BjornT: I sent you an email about it with the diff including the changes I did based on your input
[04:18] <danilos> kiko: it's on the list
[04:18] <kiko> thanks for the cherry-picks btw!
[04:19] <BjornT> carlos: oh, right. i didn't know it was included in the post-merge review.
[04:19] <mthaddon> kiko: sent an email - there was a very small change that I "cowboyed" in to get danilo's cherry pick to pass
[04:19] <danilos> kiko: look for subject line "Production Cherry Picks 4461, 4463, 4466"
[04:19] <kiko> mthaddon, ah, right -- it's not a problem.
[04:19] <kiko> yeah.
[04:19] <kiko> it won't be an issue.
[04:19] <carlos> It's a single line change that I detected while adding a test there, so I thought it was a good idea to include it there
[04:19] <kiko> yeah
[04:19] <danilos> ok, great, thanks for clearing up my mind, kiko
[04:19] <kiko> edge works!
[04:19] <mthaddon> ok, cool - that's it from the operations report then
[04:19] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/
[04:19] <danilos> wonderful, good job mthaddon
[04:20] <stub> This cycle I think we rolled out even though we knew there would shortly be fixes landing that need cherry picking. I was wondering if it would have been better for everyone if we had just delayed the rollout. Missing deadlines isn't important given they are arbitrary and set by us, but extra downtime and hassles can be.
[04:20] <SteveA> thanks mthaddon
[04:20] <ddaa> buildbot rollout done by me with mthaddon on the phone for blow-by-blow, because he does not have the necessary privs yet
[04:20] <kiko> stub, we can talk about this after the meeting, but a deadline is a deadline.
[04:20] <ddaa> s/buildbot/importd/
[04:20] <stub> ok
[04:21] <SteveA> the point of a deadline is that while it may be arbitrary, it's also something that other people can depend on and coordinate with
[04:21] <danilos> yeah, I think we should stick to deadlines, preferring to remove features over missing deadline (from experience with GNOME model)
[04:21] <SteveA> so, there are other issues to consider
[04:21] <SteveA> thanks for the comment, though, stub
[04:21] <ubotu> New bug: #122823 in soyuz "Cannot inspect packages in the upload queue" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122823
[04:21] <SteveA> it's an important consideration
[04:21] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:21] <stub> database  is boring ths week. nothing to report.
[04:21] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests
[04:21] <kiko> wait for next week!
[04:22] <Rinchen> Everything is going well. Back to SteveA
[04:22] <SteveA> thankss
[04:22] <mwhudson> mthaddon: have you rted about getting importd rights yet?
[04:22] <mthaddon> mwhudson: yep
[04:23] <mwhudson> cool
[04:23] <SteveA> matsubara: on the surrogate bug, perhaps we can file this on upstream zope3 component architecture too?
[04:23] <SteveA> stub: any idea what the right project in launchpad would be?
[04:23] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:23] <mrevell> This week's top user-affecting issue regards the slide-out help panels in the top left-hand corner of Launchpad pages.
[04:23] <matsubara> SteveA: sure
[04:23] <mrevell> At present, we promise help but don't offer any.
[04:23] <mrevell> I plan to fix this over the next few weeks, ideally covering the most important pages over the next week, linking to help.launchpad.net for further information where appropriate.
[04:23] <flacoste> mrevell: that's not true
[04:23] <stub> SteveA: zope3? jamesh?
[04:23] <mrevell> I'd love to hear from members of each Launchpad team as to which of these help panels they feel are most important.
[04:24] <flacoste> mrevell: the answer tracker and code do have halpe
[04:24] <SteveA> stub: I think there's a separate project for the z3 CA
[04:24] <mrevell> flacoste: Sorry, much.
[04:24] <mrevell> I'll mail the launchpad-users list after this meeting, as I think it'll be valuable to both developer and user input as to which pages we need to prioritise.
[04:24] <SteveA> mrevell: using bugs to track them?
[04:24] <mrevell> I feel the important pages are not necessarily those that are most used but those that aren't self-evident.
[04:24] <SteveA> mrevell: or how?
[04:24] <kiko> the bug page is missing help
[04:24] <Rinchen> I think there should be links to help.launchpad.net as appropriate from those sliding panels
[04:24] <danilos> jtv has been doing some work on translations help, I think
[04:24] <jtv> tiny bit
[04:24] <mrevell> SteveA: Yes, a bug for each page makes sense.
[04:25] <mrevell> jtv: Great, let's work together on that, then :)
[04:25] <flacoste> reviewers should also check for presence of help slot on page templates
[04:25] <jamesh> SteveA: I think we only have zope3 at present
[04:25] <flacoste> especially on new page templates
[04:25] <flacoste> but probably also on old ones
[04:25] <barry> flacoste: +1.  i'll start doing that
[04:26] <SteveA> we have a report
[04:26] <SteveA> on what pages have help text
[04:26] <SteveA> and what that text is
[04:26] <SteveA> I won't post the link to it here
[04:26] <SteveA> but we can check it out
[04:26] <jtv> SteveA: would like to see it, though
[04:27] <mrevell> If anyone is working on a page that needs help text, please do involve me as I can take some of that burden from you.
[04:27] <danilos> jtv: mpt gave me the link once, worth asking him
[04:27] <SteveA> great
[04:27] <matsubara> should we use the lp-doc project to file bugs about missing help text or just file them against launchpad?
[04:27] <thumper> mrevell: sure will
[04:27] <flacoste> mrevell: do you have RF access yet?
[04:27] <flacoste> mrevell: that would help a lot for that kind of stuff
[04:27] <mrevell> matsubara: I think probably against the relevant Launchpad app
[04:27] <danilos> matsubara: I'd prefer to have it against relevant component
[04:28] <mrevell> flacoste: I don't at the moment.
[04:28] <matsubara> okie
[04:28] <SteveA> I think the text can go in the bugs
[04:28] <SteveA> mrevell doesn't need to commit the changes in order to make good progress
[04:28] <SteveA> although we can consider this later
[04:28] <SteveA> mrevell: all done?
[04:29] <mrevell> SteveA: yes thanks
[04:29] <SteveA> is mpt here?
[04:29] <flacoste> he doesn't need to have commit, but for new pages templates to be able to see how it looks like would be a plus
[04:29] <SteveA> flacoste: edge ought to do that
[04:29] <SteveA> or staging
[04:29] <SteveA>  * Launchpad News blog (mrevell)
[04:29] <flacoste> doesn't help if reviewers block the landing for help text though :-)
[04:29] <mwhudson> for new pages ?
[04:29] <flacoste> but agreed, edge is a workaround
[04:29] <mrevell> The Launchpad News blog is online at https://news.launchpad.net!
[04:29] <mrevell> Please, everyone in the Launchpad team: consider this your opportunity to talk to Launchpad users and the wider free software community.
[04:30] <mrevell> f you're working on something cool, then let me know and we can write a blog post in preparation for its release.
[04:30] <SteveA> also, any launchpad community members who are listening
[04:30] <SteveA> take a look
[04:30] <danilos> mrevell: https:// gave me a 'No / URL found error.'
[04:30] <mrevell> Also, if you're at Millbank today, I have a microphone and am recording interviews with Launchpad team members for our first Launchpad podcast :)
[04:30] <SteveA> https?
[04:30] <mwhudson> -https +http
[04:30] <SteveA> mrevell: maybe we can get the https fixed to redirect
[04:30] <mrevell> danilos: http://news.launchpad.net is the address, sorry for givingg the wrong address
[04:31] <SteveA> or just be absent
[04:31] <mrevell> SteveA: Yes, I'll file an RT.
[04:31] <danilos> mrevell: yeah, figured it out, just confirming https is not supposed to work
[04:31] <danilos> mrevell: thanks, and good job with news.lp.net
[04:31] <kiko> btw
[04:31] <kiko> we should use news items to update the news on the launchpad homepage
[04:32] <SteveA> good point
[04:32] <SteveA> that needs a mini spec
[04:32] <kiko> they are currently stale
[04:32] <carlos> rss integration ?
[04:32] <SteveA> if we're going to do RSS etc.
[04:32] <mrevell> kiko: Yes, I need to file a bug regarding linking to the blog from main Launchpad.
[04:32] <mrevell> the feed is at:
[04:32] <SteveA> and be targetted to a dev cycle
[04:32] <mrevell> http://news.launchpad.net/feed
[04:32] <kiko> I think there's a bug filed already
[04:32] <SteveA> we need to consider what happens to test that page
[04:33] <SteveA> and if the blog is down
[04:33] <mrevell> SteveA: We could cache the news items and only update if the blog is available.
[04:34] <SteveA> in the mini spec please :-)
[04:34] <mrevell> SteveA: OK :)
[04:34] <SteveA>  * Meetings in London (kiko)
[04:34] <kiko> hello there
[04:34] <kiko> we've had some excellent meetings here in london.
[04:34] <kiko> we discussed many malone improvements yesterday
[04:35] <kiko> and today we're going over a number of registry enhancements
[04:35] <kiko> on monday
[04:35] <kiko> we discussed some improvements to the release process
[04:35] <SteveA> .win 59
[04:35] <kiko> there are two important changes that developers should notice
[04:36] <kiko> a) friday week 2 is the last day you can post /new/ branches up for review.
[04:36] <kiko> this means that week 3 is for handling review comments (and dealing with regression fixes you've uncovered in your edge and staging testing)
[04:36] <kiko> you can also work on items for your next cycle in week 3, of course
[04:37] <kiko> b) on the first two days of week 4, teams are expected to staging-test the features and changes they landed
[04:37] <kiko> the outcome of this is that every team should send a signoff email listing the revisions considered and an OK for each of the features.
[04:37] <kiko> s/features/revisions tested/
[04:37] <kiko> I guess.
[04:38] <kiko> we'll detail this in an email to the list
[04:38] <kiko> the intention with this last part is that teams actively test the changes they made, and help us ensure problems have been found before we roll out.
[04:38] <carlos> kiko: I guess that's for 1.1.8, isn't it?
[04:38] <kiko> carlos, for 1.1.7.
[04:38] <carlos> ok
[04:39] <SteveA> kiko: all done?
[04:39] <kiko> what else, what else
[04:39] <danilos> kiko: indeed, I think that would have helped with 1.1.6 and some of the translations crashes I introduced
[04:39] <kiko> okay, one more thing
[04:40] <kiko> at friday week 3 close of business mthaddon time, PQM will be moderated for approved landings only
[04:40] <kiko> we're going to dream up an approval tag
[04:40] <kiko> and only merge requests signed with this approval tag can be landed.
[04:40] <kiko> this is to ensure that PQM is kept free for people landing critical bugfixes.
[04:40] <kiko> the only appointed approvers are me and SteveA for now.
[04:40] <kiko> K THX BYE
[04:40] <SteveA> thanks kiko
[04:40] <mwhudson> when will it be opened again?
[04:40] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:41] <kiko> mwhudson, good question
[04:41] <kiko> it opens again after the rollout is complete.
[04:41] <kiko> K THX BYE pt. 2
[04:41] <SteveA> ok
[04:41] <flacoste> Answers team: not blocked
[04:41] <mwhudson> don't you want a day or so to get critical things for cherry picks in?
[04:41] <SteveA> other questions and answers can be on the mailing list
[04:41] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:41] <SteveA> (or after this meeting)
[04:42] <SteveA> please give the team blockers or lack thereof
[04:42] <matsubara> TEAM: infrastructure
[04:42] <matsubara> BLOCKED: no
[04:42] <jsk> TEAM:Blueprints BLOCKED:No
[04:42] <jtv> Translations: not blocked
[04:42] <bigjools> TEAM: Soyuz BLOCKED: no
[04:42] <barry> TEAM: mailing lists BLOCKED no
[04:42] <mwhudson> TEAM: launchpad-bazaar BLOCKED: no
[04:42] <allenap> TEAM: Bug tracker BLOCKED: no
[04:42] <statik> TEAM: Commercialization BLOCKED: no
[04:43] <salgado> TEAM: FOAF: no
[04:43] <mthaddon> salgado: what does FOAF mean?
[04:43] <flacoste> mthaddon: Friend of a friend
[04:43] <mthaddon> thx
[04:43] <kiko> was that helpful?
[04:44] <flacoste> mthaddon: it's an XML standard i think: http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2004/02/04/foaf.html
[04:44] <sinzui> mthaddon: DOAP is Description of a Project
[04:44] <flacoste> another XML format
[04:44] <SteveA> great... no one blocked
[04:44] <mthaddon> so what does it mean in the context of LP?
[04:44] <flacoste> mthaddon: basically the registry
[04:44] <SteveA> mthaddon: teams and people
[04:44] <kiko> mthaddon, it's the people and teams bit
[04:44] <mthaddon> ok, gotcha, thx
[04:44] <SteveA> that's the agenda done.  so, that's the meeting done.
[04:45] <SteveA> thanks for being here
[04:45] <SteveA> and keeping on topic
[04:45] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[04:45] <kiko> thanks!
[04:45] <bigjools> thanks
[04:45] <kiko> on the dot SteveA
[04:45] <mwhudson> yay
[04:45] <kiko> flacoste, ping?
[04:47] <kiko> flacoste, https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/2007-06-26/A66
[04:50] <jordi> kiko kiko kiko
[04:51] <kiko> hey jordi
[04:52] <danilos> jordi, dude, you are late for the meeting!
[04:53] <jordi> I was just on time for the after party
[04:56] <danilos> jordi: you just want the girls and the drinks
[04:57] <jordi> danilos: you know a lot of that business
[04:58] <danilos> jordi: learned it all in sitges, from the Meister :P
[05:03] <jtv> I thought Sitges was the gay meeting place?
[05:08] <jordi> jtv: YOU GOT IT RIGHT
[05:10] <jordi> however, not everyone was gay there.
[05:10] <jordi> danilos missed the best day: an evening in the gay nude beach.
[05:11] <danilos> jordi: I am sure you missed none of it :)
[05:12] <jordi> neither the people in that beach
[05:12] <jordi> dude, I now know what some poor girls feel like
[06:28] <minghua> Hello, I have a question about the .mo files shipped in the central translation package (language-support-* ?)
[06:29] <minghua> does that only apply to main packages?  and universe packages still ship .mo files on their own?
[06:29] <kiko> yes
[06:29] <kiko> language packs only apply to packages in main, today.
[06:30] <minghua> kiko: thanks.  but are the POT files of universe packages uploaded to LP for translation?
[06:31] <kiko> minghua, I'm not sure -- jtv or danilos might.
[06:31] <danilos> minghua: they are not, since there would be no much use for that (they wouldn't be used anywhere, so translators would be working in vain)
[06:32] <minghua> danilos: thanks!
[06:32] <danilos> minghua: we used to do that like a year or so ago because we were expecting ubuntu to start shipping language packs for universe, but that didn't happen, so we also stopped importing them :)
[06:32] <danilos> minghua: you're welcome
[06:32] <kiko> there's a scalability problem with universe langpacks, which is why we don't
[06:33] <minghua> hmm, interesting historical stories
[06:34] <kiko> there have been plans to provide translations for universe. I think there are at least two ubuntu specs if you get them looked up
[06:34] <minghua> but I suppose upstream can still explicitly enable their projects on LP and get translations, can't they?
[06:35] <kiko> yes! definitely.
[06:41] <minghua> if anyone is interested, my story is: a maintainer of a universe package with a dead stream was wondering how to update the translation
[06:42] <LaserJock> I think that might be fairly common in Universe
[06:43] <minghua> well, if I were the maintainer, I just won't bother
[06:43] <minghua> updating translations in .diff.gz is quite a pain
[06:43] <minghua> unless you're going to re-autotoolize in the build process, of course
[06:45] <minghua> LaserJock: hi there BTW, our "contact person" :-)
[06:47] <Hobbsee> minghua: that just means that both launchpad and MOTU can have a go at LaserJock
[06:47] <Hobbsee> in the process of having a go at each other
[06:50] <minghua> well, when Hobbsee has a pointy stick, everyone and every team looks like a good poking target, I suppose :-P
[06:50] <Hobbsee> heh
[06:52] <danilos> minghua: I guess we could agree with Ubuntu MOTU teams *what* universe packages to allow translation for, and import only them, and export language packs with those... however, it means that most of this work needs to be done by the MOTU team
[06:54] <minghua> danilos: I am not very fond of that idea.  Is it possible that each l10n team individually decide which universe package they want to translate?  (and once one l10n team decides to translate a certain package, all the translations of that packages enter LP.)
[06:56] <danilos> minghua: again, that's entirely not up to us... if Ubuntu guys are going to ship such language packs, we'll provide them with translations. However, what you propose is not really how it could work because atm, universe packages ship with translations which come from upstream, so you'd have duplicate translations on the system
[06:57] <danilos> the proper solution would be not to ship translations only in affected packages, but that sounds like a packaging nightmare (though, I don't know much about packaging, so I may be totally off-base)
[06:58] <danilos> minghua: and in practice, you'll pretty soon end up with all universe packages with at least some bits of translations
[06:58] <minghua> danilos: don't worry about it then, I am not that involved in translation anyway
[06:58] <danilos> minghua: ok, sure
[06:59] <minghua> but AFAIK, the current situation for main packages are completely automatic, not affecting packaging at all
[07:00] <minghua> something along the line of: source package uploaded, on buildd, a magic script strips all translations, keeps the POT file and uploads to LP
[07:00] <minghua> the package builds, with no translations whatsoever
[07:01] <minghua> then l10n teams translates that POT file, based on PO files already in the source package
[07:01] <minghua> and another magic script collect those translations, make MO files, and put them in language packs
[07:42] <danilos> minghua: that's right, but you were asking about selective language packs, which means stripping would also have to be done only on certain packages, and you've got a couple of race conditions there (eg. someone starts a translation after the package has been released with translations, and you later ship a language pack containing those translations)
[07:56] <minghua> yes indeed.  sounds not very practical.
[09:44] <taa> hello
[09:50] <taa> is it possible to install launchpad locally ? i mean like gforge for exemple ?
[09:51] <minghua> not likely
[09:52] <taa> i really like it, my companie seems to be interested
[10:07] <taa> " that we plan to open Launchpad in the future."
[10:07] <taa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekfeisty/launchpad
[10:08] <taa> cant understand wich kind of licence launchpad is using
[10:24] <LaserJock> taa: it's not distributed
[10:24] <LaserJock> taa: i.e. you can't download it
[10:25] <taa> LaserJock i know
[10:25] <LaserJock> so a license doesn't really mean a lot
[10:25] <taa> LaserJock sure
[10:31] <taa> good day/night


[00:04] <cjwatson> Coming back online now, but appservers got a bit stuck (probably after massive packet loss between them and their database) and needed to be restarted, which is in progress
[00:22] <lifeless> cjwatson: were small packets unaffected?
[00:22] <cjwatson> I have no idea, sorry
[00:22] <cjwatson> I wasn't working on it directly, just running around doing communications at the edges
[00:23] <lifeless> cjwatson: its ok, it was a womp womp joke anyhow :P
[00:23] <cjwatson> oh :P
[00:23] <lifeless> "massive packet"
[00:23] <cjwatson> joke parser doesn't work after midnight
[00:24] <lifeless> I just got off 2 hours of straight video conf, so totally zoned myself.
[00:31] <cjwatson> Things seem mostly happier now, so I'm going to sleep
[03:15] <jik1> Just dropping in to ask if y'all are aware that launchpad seems to have been down for like the last half hour or so?
[03:15] <sarnold> jik1: yup, known issue, it's being worked on
[03:15] <sarnold> thanks
[03:16] <jik1> Status updates on @launchpadstatus on twitter might be nice then, please.
[18:46] <ActionParsnip> Hi. There are many questions by a user named snooper on Launchpad.net. They are exactly the same question with the same petulant tone. Can you please close a lot of them off (probably saving the newest) as duplicates. This will help keep the forum neat and concentrate support to one question rather than about 20. Cheers :-)
[18:46] <ActionParsnip> Here is the newest question for reference
[18:46] <ActionParsnip> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+question/688970
[18:55] <cjwatson> ActionParsnip: I've given them an official warning in that question.  Let us know if they ignore it.
[18:55] <cjwatson> There's no duplicate facility for questions, so I can't do exactly as you ask.
[18:55] <ActionParsnip> Cheers. He's getting really boring now
[18:55] <cjwatson> Yeah, I can see that.  Just like to give people at least a warning when they aren't actually spam
[18:56] <cjwatson> But if they ignore it I'll ban
[19:02] <ActionParsnip> Cheers
[21:09] <oerheks> hi
[21:10] <oerheks> i have an issue with 2 fact auth on launchpad, Error: The password is invalid ( not password but the 6 digit codes )
[21:32] <vmorris> hi all, LP noob here.. I would like to know if it's possible to apt install the deb packages listed in a build, or if i can create an PPA from an existing build
[21:33] <vmorris> specifically https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/237-3ubuntu10.34/+build/18651194
[21:35] <cjwatson> oerheks: Despite the domain name, login.launchpad.net isn't actually part of Launchpad.  You can email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for help
[21:35] <oerheks> cjwatson, thank you
[21:37] <cjwatson> vmorris: You can't apt install directly from the build as such, though you can download the packages manually and then feed them to apt.  You can copy packages between archives (https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA/Copying), but copying from the Ubuntu primary archive requires using the "copy-package" tool from https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-archive-tools.  But what problem are you ...
[21:37] <cjwatson> ... actually trying to solve here?
[21:38] <vmorris> i was asked to verify a fix in systemd here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/237-3ubuntu10.34
[21:38] <cjwatson> vmorris: And do you actually have an s390x machine?  (You may indeed do, but just checking ...)
[21:38] <vmorris> yes, i have a few s390x machines :D
[21:38] <cjwatson> vmorris: So it would be easiest to do it a different way.  Let me find you the docs
[21:39] <cjwatson> vmorris: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[21:39] <cjwatson> vmorris: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/PerformingSRUVerification
[21:39] <cjwatson> I assume you'll want the non-graphical alternatives there
[21:40] <vmorris> ah yeah, i tried this already but i'm not seeing the update for systemd i was expecting
[21:41] <vmorris> https://gist.github.com/vmorris/4570e6cdcc4851b3e7605821b25e4e53
[21:42] <vmorris> brb
[21:42] <cjwatson> ... ok
[21:42] <cjwatson> was just about to answer :)
[21:46] <vmorris> @cjwatson I figure I could download all the Deb files and install them manually, but I was hoping to have a more direct method
[21:46] <cjwatson> vmorris: It looks like verification has already been completed and the package has been released to -updates
[21:47] <cjwatson> (or a later version that incorporates the same changes, anyway)
[21:47] <cjwatson> vmorris: So if you wanted to belatedly follow up, you could do that by just upgrading to the current stuff in bionic-updates (which it sounds like you already have)
[21:47] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/237-3ubuntu10.39 is the version that was released
[21:48] <vmorris> Oh! No I haven't added the updates yet 😁
[21:48] <cjwatson> Sometimes this happens when a proposed update is superseded by a security update
[21:48] <cjwatson> Ah yes, so you haven't
[21:48] <vmorris> Thanks! I'll pull it in this way
[21:48] <cjwatson> Yeah, in general -proposed exists on top of -updates


[13:48] <rsakeys> sup
[14:32] <hggdh> rsakeys: hello, whatncan we do for you?
[14:36] <rsakeys> what is this channel for?
[14:37] <hggdh> this is where people that find themselves with prpoblems in other Ubuntu channels come in to discuss the issues
[14:38] <hggdh> for example, if you have been, say, banned in #ubuntu, you could come here to discuss the event
[14:38] <hggdh> rsakeys: so, again, what can we do for you?
[14:39] <rsakeys> oh right, nm i got told you can go to this channel to troll or shitpost
[14:39] <rsakeys> i haven't been banned from the original chat, but thanks for offering help
[14:40] <hggdh> rsakeys: yes, I saw the log. You had not been banned, but was trying hard to be
[14:41] <hggdh> so... the #ubuntu channels follow a Code of Conduct.
[14:42] <hggdh> !CoC | rsakeys
[14:42] <hggdh> We would really appreciate if you could follow it as well.
[14:42] <rsakeys> i see
[14:43] <rsakeys> i'm quite new to IRC, i wasn't aware of any rules, but now i am
[14:44] <hggdh> different projects/channels may have different rules, so YMMV. But, in general, trolling is not accepted anywhere in freenode.
[14:45] <hggdh> rsakeys: so, if there is nothing else, please /part the channel. This is a no-idling channel.
[22:48] <tomreyn> !ops | AppXprt in ubuntu doesn't seem to want to stop
[22:49] <tomreyn> #ubuntu that is
[22:52] <tomreyn> please kick me off this channel when this is done, i'll be afk for now.
[23:16] <tomreyn> he left since.


[07:57] <bq> how to enable selection/click as copy/paste?
[18:50] <Quantos> Hey guys, got one that's probably pretty easy
[18:50] <Quantos> I can't seem to set wallpaper on my second monitor
[18:50] <Quantos> It works fine, but no wallpaper
[18:51] <Quantos> LUbuntu 15.10
[20:55] <rcmaehl> Hey, I'm installing lubuntu on a Pentium 3. Is there any recommended tweaks to get the max performance on this old system?
[20:55] <rcmaehl> The S1 version not the PGA
[22:53] <ianorlin> rcmaehl: IT is pretty light by default but that can be old be wary when installing stuff that brings in heavy things
[22:54] <ianorlin> rcmaehl: But local applicatoins can be better if they don't bring in many dependencies
[22:55] <ianorlin> Quantos: how are you setting up your second monitor as like above and below extending
[23:05] <ianorlin> Quantos: can you run the command `pgrep -a pcmanfm` to see if it running to run the wallpaper or if you turned it off or set to manage current screen only?
[23:09] <Quantos> I run that in term ianorlin?
[23:10] <Quantos> I don't get a response from it
[23:10] <Quantos> It just returns to the command prompt
[23:10] <ianorlin> yes in a terminal
[23:11] <ianorlin> Quantos hmm that is not default that might mean pcmanfm is not running which it normally runs the wallpaper are you using something else?
[23:11] <Quantos> I dunno
[23:11] <Quantos> How would I find out?
[23:13] <ianorlin> I think you would have to change something to do that
[23:13] <Quantos> Hmmm
[23:14] <Quantos> I can't think of anything
[23:15] <Quantos> NVM, I'm an idiot
[23:15] <Quantos> I changed the desktop
[23:16] <Quantos> Sorry man, where do I find the KDE chat?
[23:16] <ianorlin> #kubuntu
[23:16] <Quantos> Okay, sorry about that brain fart man


[00:43] <Tug> so I tried to deploy the "mongodb-cluster" in a vagrant vm, how can I check that it's up and running ?
[00:43] <Tug> I cannot ssh to the mongos unit
[00:43] <Tug> vagrant@vagrant-ubuntu-precise-64:~$ juju ssh mongos/0
[00:43] <Tug> ERROR unit "mongos/0" has no public address
[00:43] <sarnold> have you exposed the unit?
[00:43] <sarnold> s/unit/service/
[00:43] <Tug> yes
[00:43] <sarnold> can you connect a mongo client to the address specified?
[00:43] <Tug> using the web ui first
[00:44] <Tug> then with juju expose mongos
[00:45] <Tug> sarnold, which address are you talking about ?
[00:46] <Tug> (my machine is really unstable atm, but I can understand as the vm runs 13 units)
[00:47] <davecheney> sarnold: this is different
[00:47] <davecheney> open-port / juju expose is for network connections of the service
[00:47] <davecheney> juju ssh, ewll, ssh's to that unit
[00:48] <davecheney> but it looks like there is no public address available
[00:48] <davecheney> so it cannot route to that machine
[00:48] <davecheney> Tug: you could try, juju ssh $THE NUMBER OF THE MACHINE
[00:48] <sarnold> which could be if using the local provider (lxc), right?
[00:48] <davecheney> look in juju status
[00:48] <sarnold> (at least I think I heard 'juju ssh' doesn't work with lxc..)
[00:48] <davecheney> sarnold: i'm not sure qhat 'deplou in a vagrant vm' means in the context of juju
[00:48] <davecheney> sarnold: nah, it works
[00:49] <sarnold> davecheney: oh hooray :) what am I thinking of then? :)
[00:49] <davecheney> sarnold: if there is a problem creating hte lxc container
[00:50] <davecheney> then that error is common
[00:50] <davecheney> because we need hte agent to start up inside the containter to report back the ip addresses it sees
[00:50] <sarnold> ahh
[00:50] <Tug> please wait, system is reeeeaaally sloww
[00:51] <Tug> $ juju ssh 5
[00:51] <Tug> Warning: Permanently added '<IP_ADDRESS>' (ECDSA) to the list of known hosts.
[00:51] <Tug> Permission denied (publickey,password).
[00:53] <davecheney> ok, this is a bit different
[00:53] <marco-traveling> davecheney: sarnold  juju ssh machine number on local does not work
[00:53] <Tug> It's my first time using juju so I don't really understand what you are saying ^^
[00:53] <davecheney> marco-traveling: it does
[00:53] <marco-traveling> you have to use unit
[00:53] <Tug> hte agent ?
[00:53] <marco-traveling> davecheney: that output suggests otherwise
[00:53] <davecheney> marco-traveling: it really really does
[00:53] <marco-traveling> davecheney: when was that fixed?
[00:53] <Tug> yes it's on the vagrant documentation page
[00:53] <davecheney> ubuntu@winton-02:~/charms/trusty$ juju ssh 1 -- bash -c 'whoami;hostname'
[00:53] <davecheney> ubuntu
[00:53] <davecheney> ubuntu-local-machine-1
[00:53] <davecheney> Connection to <IP_ADDRESS> closed.
[00:53] <Tug> it's supposed to be mongos/0
[00:54] <davecheney> marco-traveling: not sure
[00:54] <marco-traveling> Tug: what does juju status say
[00:54] <davecheney> maybe not fixed in 1.16
[00:54] <davecheney> it's been a long time since I used 1.16
[00:54] <davecheney> absolutely fixed in 1.17/18
[00:54] <Tug> sorry what ? you need my juju version ?
[00:55] <Tug> 1.16.6-saucy-amd64
[00:55] <marco-traveling> okay let's take a Stroo back
[00:55] <sarnold> Tug: can you pastebin your juju status output? (the pastebinit program can be quite helpful for using pastebins)
[00:55] <marco-traveling> step*
[00:56] <Tug> yep yes wait a bit browser is laggy
[00:56] <Tug> http://pastebin.com/5MfLUWs4
[00:58] <Tug> so, lot of "pending", is that good ?
[00:59] <marco-traveling> Tug: it means what you'd expect, things are still being setup
[01:00] <Tug> ok, thx marco-traveling !
[01:01] <Tug> It's been an hour now though
[01:01] <marco-traveling> Tug: you may have exceeded the limits of the vagrant box
[01:01] <marco-traveling> that's a lot of services
[01:01] <Tug> yeah my machine's
[01:02] <Tug> *or my machine's
[01:02] <sarnold> oww :)
[01:02] <marco-traveling> Tug: you might want to try with less units next time
[01:02] <Tug> ok I'll shut it down now and try in a real cloud
[01:02] <marco-traveling> or that
[01:04] <Tug> thanks for your help guys
[01:04] <Tug> (or girls)
[01:04] <sarnold> have fun Tug :)
[01:05] <Tug> I will sarnold, I will
[01:22] <marcoceppi> well I'll be damned, davecheney 1.17.5 fixes juju ssh <machine>
[01:22] <marcoceppi> I'll make sure the next version of the docs have that caveat removed \o/
[01:27] <marcoceppi> davecheney: I just double checked all the release notes, I didn't see it mentioned :\
[01:31] <davecheney> marcoceppi: emoji crying
[04:59] <bloodearnest> \o/
[04:59] <bloodearnest> lxc-clone: true baby!
[05:33] <bloodearnest> oh boy, lxc cloning is a game changed. 10 machines in 10s
[05:33] <bloodearnest> s/changed/changer
[10:08] <gsamfira> Hey there folks. Quick question: Is there any way to force remove a unit in dying state?
[10:09] <gsamfira> without clobbering the machine preferably :)
[11:35] <gsamfira> never mind. Apparently if a machine agent gets interrupted while killing a unit and doesn't manage to report back, it can't recover. It only checks if life == params.Dead
[11:35] <gsamfira> and not ==params.Dying
[12:06] <Tug> I try to understand juju's best practices
[12:06] <Tug> so if I get it right, the documentation say I should not write a charm to deploy my application
[12:10] <Tug> It's unclear to me how I can configure the whole machine then
[12:11] <Tug> for instance, at the moment I have a bash script which copies a nginx.conf which points to a specific path to serve static files and to specific ports where my node.js app is running
[12:11] <Tug> plus nginx is doing extra work like handling ssl, etc
[12:12] <Tug> what should I get started on to port this to juju ?
[12:27] <marcoceppi> Tug: what do you mean? charms should do whatever they need to in order to set up your service
[12:30] <Tug> marcoceppi, ok, then I don't understand where I can set the configuration for the nginx charm
[12:31] <marcoceppi> don't use the nginx charm, just have your charm install ngimx and configure it
[12:31] <Tug> marcoceppi, ok so I do need to write a charm
[12:33] <marcoceppi> yes, it sounds like it. the ngomx charm is more of a microcache + loadbalancer
[12:33] <Tug> I don't know, is it common to write your own charm ?
[12:33] <marcoceppi> very
[12:33] <Tug> or is it supposed to be for service only
[12:33] <Tug> ok
[12:33] <marcoceppi> apt-get is for packages, charms are for deployments
[12:34] <Tug> so to get started, I can just write a charm which executes my bootstrap script
[12:34] <marcoceppi> if you want to think of it like that
[12:34] <Tug> I see
[12:34] <marcoceppi> what bootstrap script?
[12:35] <Tug> the one I'm using atm to configure a new machine, it's just a bash script
[12:35] <marcoceppi> oh, the yes, basically
[12:36] <marcoceppi> bleh, sorry, my swipe keyboard is just not hacking it this morning.
[12:36] <zchander> ping marcoceppi
[12:36] <Tug> alright, thx marcoceppi
[12:37] <marcoceppi> Tug: if you have a script, you basically have like 85-90% of a charm. You might need to tweak it a bit to work with configurations so you can pass configuration variables to the charm, handle relations, etc
[12:37] <marcoceppi> zchander: o/
[12:37] <zchander> Good afternoon (it is here, at least ;) )
[12:37] <overm1nd> for me it would be useful to have a general charm for example to add a php virtual host to apache service
[12:37] <overm1nd> i'm just new to juju
[12:38] <overm1nd> I will try to write my own and experiment
[12:38] <zchander> May I bother you (again) with a 'noob' question? I am trying to deploy Ceph on my MaaS, with Juju. So far, I have managed to get Ceph running, with storage, but how can I make this available through e.g. NFS (or something similar)
[12:39] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: that's not a bad idea, it opens some issues, like some php applications require specific packages, etc, but having a generic php container charm (like we do for tomcat) would be cool
[12:39] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: we have similar examples for rails, node.js, and tomcat* I'd be happy to help answer questions if you want to try to tackle that though
[12:40] <overm1nd> thx marcoceppi, I think it's a very common deployment
[12:41] <marcoceppi> zchander: so, ceph charm exposes a ceph-client interface that you can communicate with from your charm
[12:41] <marcoceppi> zchander: there's an example of how to communicate with ceph in your charm in this example (non-working) charm: http://manage.jujucharms.com/~james-page/quantal/ceph-client
[12:42] <overm1nd> in the docs I cannot find the answer to a simple question
[12:42] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: PHP is a /very/ popular deployment strategy in this day and age of the web. having something like a charm which installed php5-fpm, nginx, etc and configured it with the abiility to co-locate multiple php apps would be really nice
[12:42] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: which question is that?
[12:43] <overm1nd> how we can deal with migration of db from a machine to another?
[12:43] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: as in, you deploy a database charm, and want to migrate the database on it to another deployment of that database charm?
[12:43] <overm1nd> exactly
[12:44] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: well, that varies depending on the charm
[12:44] <overm1nd> suppouse a forum like discourse
[12:44] <zchander> Going to have a look at that. The reason I asked this, The OwnCloud charm only accepts NFS as shared storage.
[12:44] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: the postgresql charm, for example, contains information in the README about how to achieve this
[12:44] <overm1nd> (by the way I really appreciated your work)
[12:44] <marcoceppi> zchander: ah, adding ceph as an option would be really awesome
[12:45] <overm1nd> thx marcoceppi I will dig in to this
[12:45] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: oh dear, sorry you're using that charm, it needs a bit of work to be compatible with latest upstream sadly
[12:45] <overm1nd> I'm planning to use it
[12:45] <overm1nd> now I'm using the docker from sam
[12:46] <overm1nd> but I would like to move everything on juju
[12:46] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: the change isn't that drastic, if you get to it before I do, but ever since Discourse started tracking database settings for production in a different file than database.yml the charm has become broken
[12:47] <marcoceppi> I haven't had time to look at it, but someone with time and knowledge of discourse could patch it pretty quickly
[12:47] <overm1nd> I will wait :P
[12:47] <marcoceppi> The charm's on github if you want to give it a crack, otherwise I'll try to fix it next week
[12:47] <overm1nd> I still need to experiment making my own charm
[12:48] <overm1nd> and understand migrations
[12:48] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: cool, well if you have any questions while writing your own charm feel free to let us know!
[12:48] <overm1nd> the real value for me is not to have to deploy everything again and again moving from an hosting to another
[12:49] <overm1nd> thx your support is precious
[12:50] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: so, doing backups up until recently was painful because we had no real way to just run commands against a charm unless we piped them through ssh, now there's a juju run command which lets us just fire arbitrary commands against the environment. So it'd be easy to just say `juju run --unit mysql/0 mysqldump my-db > /tmp/db.sql` then rsync that file to a new mysql server and restore
[12:50] <themonk> marcoceppi: hi
[12:51] <marcoceppi> not super sexy as far as commands go, but easier. Charms should start having their readmes updated to reflect this new ability in the near future
[12:51] <marcoceppi> themonk: o/
[12:51] <overm1nd> this sounds great
[12:51] <themonk> marcoceppi: in subordinate charm install scripts runs after add-relation ryt?
[12:51] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: there's also work on a generic backup charm. So you could just deploy this backup charm to your db service, configure it to put the backups in say s3, then in your new deployment, deplyo the backup charm in a restoration mode and it'll pull the backup from s3
[12:52] <overm1nd> sounds greater
[12:52] <lazyPower> themonk: not unless the add-relation script implicitly calls the instal hoook.
[12:52] <marcoceppi> themonk: the subordinates install runs first. It follows the same routine a normal charm does, install -> config-changed -> start THEN relation-* hooks, but it only gets added to a service after you run juju add-relation
[12:52] <overm1nd> you guys are doing really good stuff
[12:52] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: I'd like to think so :D
[12:53] <themonk> lazyPower: hi
[12:54] <themonk> marcoceppi: hmm thanks
[13:25] <lazyPower> marcoceppi: is there an env var that juju-deployer can read for local charm store path?
[13:25] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: no idea
[13:25] <lazyPower> ppetraki: ^
[13:26] <marcoceppi> JUJU_REPOSITORY is the juju env variable I think
[13:26] <marcoceppi> lazyPower: why not just make a path to the charm teh branch?
[13:26] <marcoceppi> I think deployer does relative paths
[13:26] <ppetraki> tried that, maybe I messed it up
[13:26] <ppetraki> actually, nm, I messed up, I had branch paths defined and... found a bug in my local bundler :)
[13:28] <hazmat> overm1nd, ping..
[13:37] <overm1nd> hi hazmat
[13:38] <overm1nd> when you have time I will appreciate your help
[13:59] <hazmat> overm1nd, greetings.. got meetings for the next 3hrs :-( would you have time this afternoon?
[13:59] <hazmat> er.. relatively afternoon ;-)
[13:59] <hazmat> dk
[13:59] <overm1nd> yes
[13:59] <hazmat> i can make some time in an hr
[14:00] <overm1nd> just ping me
[14:00] <hazmat> cool
[14:00] <overm1nd> thx you very much
[14:03] <zchander> :q
[14:04]  * zchander forgot, once more to select the correct window
[14:05] <overm1nd> this mistakes can lead you to big troubles with people :P
[14:15] <Tug> Does it matter if I user a System V init script in my charm, or there a reason I should really use upstart ?
[14:16] <marcoceppi> Tug: you can use whichever makes sense for your
[14:16] <marcoceppi> you*
[14:16] <Tug> ok :)
[14:16] <marcoceppi> Tug: there are only a few policies a charm must follow, and that's only if you want it to be in the charm store, otherwise you can pretty much do *anything*
[14:17] <Tug> I see! that's why almost all charms I saw used upstart ?
[14:18] <marcoceppi> Tug: well, upstart is the Ubuntu init system, so people writing charms typically target them to Ubuntu hence the upstart script. But there are charms that create init.d systemv scripts instead
[14:18] <marcoceppi> it's all up to the charm authors preferences, upstart is not a required charm store policy
[14:18] <marcoceppi> Tug: this is the policy, btw, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/authors-charm-policy.html
[14:18] <Tug> ok cool, I was just checking I wasn't missing out on big features
[14:19] <marcoceppi> Tug: again, that's just if you want it in the charm store, if it's just for personal use  you can do whatever you like
[14:20] <Tug> alright
[14:20] <Tug> thx, you're being really helpful
[14:42] <Tug> something I don't get in node-app charm: the `app_user` config parameter defaults to `ubuntu` but I don't see the script trying to create the user
[14:45] <Tug> I don't think `ubuntu` is a default user, so how is it going to work out of the box ?
[15:16] <marcoceppi> Tug: the ubuntu user is the default user in all Ubuntu Cloud images
[15:17] <Tug> ok marcoceppi
[15:17] <Tug> does it have a home ?
[15:18] <marcoceppi> Tug: yes, /home/ubuntu
[15:19] <Tug> ok good to know :)
[15:21] <hazmat> overm1nd, pong
[15:22] <overm1nd> hi
[15:23] <overm1nd> you asked me 3 question
[15:23] <overm1nd> but How I can log to the juju bootstrap machine if the bootsrap fails?
[15:28] <hazmat> overm1nd, using your ssh key
[15:28] <overm1nd> yes of course
[15:28] <overm1nd> i connect to the droplet via putty using my ssh-imported key
[15:29] <overm1nd> and the key is present in juju/ssh also
[15:29] <overm1nd> so this part is working
[15:31] <hazmat> overm1nd, putty means the private key is on your desktop
[15:31] <hazmat> overm1nd, is the private key on the droplet your using as a juju client?
[15:31] <hazmat> overm1nd, can we do a hangout/screenshare?
[15:32] <overm1nd> yes is the same key
[15:32] <overm1nd> I have it on the docean panel
[15:32] <overm1nd> and a file on my desktop for putty
[15:32] <overm1nd> we can do if you like
[15:32] <overm1nd> maybe I'm missing something really stupid
[15:33] <overm1nd> in the droplet i'm using to start the boostrap machine
[15:33] <overm1nd> i have a file in juju/evnirometnt/local.jenv
[15:34] <overm1nd> the key is also present there
[15:34] <overm1nd> you can't reproduce the problem?
[15:39] <hazmat> overm1nd, the problem is you also need to have it in ~/.ssh of the machine your droplet your using on the client
[15:40] <hazmat> er... the problem is you also need to have it in ~/.ssh of the machine/droplet your using as the client
[15:40] <overm1nd> ehm I think I have otherwise I could not connect right?
[15:41] <hazmat> overm1nd, right.. but your saying your connecting with putty from your desktop
[15:41] <hazmat> which is not the same at all
[15:41] <hazmat> the key has to be accessible to where the ssh client is being run
[16:17] <overm1nd> guys you rock! thanks hazmat so much for the help!
[16:18] <hazmat> overm1nd, np.. enjoy..  bug/feature suggestions welcome as well.
[16:19] <overm1nd> of course I will spread the juju verb
[19:16] <cjohnston> are there any docs for charm helpers?
[19:18] <marcoceppi> cjohnston: not yet
[19:19] <cjohnston> awesome
[19:25] <overm1nd> guys which is the preferred way to install multiple wordpress site on the same node?
[19:26] <overm1nd> I see a lot of charms for wordpress
[19:26] <overm1nd> wordpress-mu is still the way to go?
[19:29] <sarnold> actually thikning of wordpress, marcoceppi, is this something that could be fixed in our wordpress charms? :) http://blog.sucuri.net/2014/03/more-than-162000-wordpress-sites-used-for-distributed-denial-of-service-attack.html
[19:30] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: wordpress-mu has been built in to wordpress for a while
[19:30] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: the charm would need to be reworked, I've been planning to rewrite it for a while but haven't gotten around to ityet
[19:31] <overm1nd> I see, this is why I was asking
[19:31] <marcoceppi> sarnold: good fine, open a bug and I can have default installs disable that
[19:32] <overm1nd> mmm, I have a service stuck in dying since 10 minutes
[19:32] <overm1nd> is normal?
[19:37] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: is the agent-state in error?
[19:37] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: to answer your question, no
[19:37] <overm1nd> yes
[19:37] <overm1nd> first deploy ever of mysql failed
[19:37] <overm1nd> lol
[19:38] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: do, destroy-server requests are queued just like any other
[19:38] <marcoceppi> if the service or unit is in an error state, it won't process any events
[19:38] <marcoceppi> run juju resolved mysql/0
[19:38] <marcoceppi> to clear the error flag and proceed to the other events
[19:38] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/charms-destroy.html#caveat-dying
[19:39] <overm1nd> ok
[19:39] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: you may have to run resolved several times if more errors occur
[19:39] <overm1nd> I did destroy-service before but it was not processing
[19:39] <overm1nd> I should read more docs :P
[19:39] <marcoceppi> overm1nd: in 1.17.4 and above there's a --force flag that will allow you to remove services bypassing the state of the service/unit
[19:40] <overm1nd> ok thx
[19:41] <overm1nd> worked
[19:41] <overm1nd> I was a bit worried about it was not doing anything
[19:47] <overm1nd> mmm it's still failing to start
[19:47] <overm1nd> but I have to go now, I will dig in the problem tomorrow, thx for you help
[19:47] <overm1nd> see you
[20:05] <Tug> I'm trying to debug a charm on local
[20:05] <Tug> $ juju debug-log
[20:05] <Tug> Permission denied (publickey,password).
[20:05] <Tug> ERROR exit status 255
[20:05] <Tug> same error as in the vm
[20:05] <lazyPower> Tug: local provider right? those logs are actually stored in $HOME/.juju/local/logs
[20:06] <lazyPower> there's an open bug against debug-log not working properly on local deployments.
[20:06] <Tug> ok thanks lazyPower, I'm going to check
[20:08] <jose> hey marcoceppi! I was wondering if you would like to do another openweek session on juju charming
[20:11] <lazyPower> jose: we have our charm school schedule posted on the fridge
[20:11] <lazyPower> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/
[20:13] <jose> lazyPower: openweek is a different classroom team event, where we have a week full of sessions on how to get involved with the community, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek :)
[20:13] <lazyPower> Hmm... I'd do that.
[20:13] <lazyPower> an hour long session right?
[20:13] <jose> oh, really? that'd be awesome!
[20:13] <jose> yep, you get to choose your slot
[20:14] <lazyPower> jose: before i fully commit let me pick a small app to charm
[20:14] <lazyPower> we'll live-dev a charm
[20:14] <jose> sure, we can use on-air for that
[20:14] <lazyPower> I'll follow up Monday?
[20:14] <jose> sure, sounds good
[20:15]  * lazyPower thumbs up
[20:15] <jose> thank you :)
[20:26] <lazyPower> jose: I'll do a demo charm for Piwik - the open analytics platform
[20:27] <jose> lazyPower: sounds good! which slot would you like to grab?
[20:27] <jose> open slots are the blanks here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[20:28] <lazyPower> 1800UTC on Thursday
[20:28] <lazyPower> jose: Actually, lets go Tuesday. Get it out of the way early
[20:29] <lazyPower> so if you want to do another other juju topics, someone can follow the charm school
[20:29] <jose> ok, tuesday at 18 utc?
[20:29]  * lazyPower nods
[20:29] <lazyPower> sounds good to me
[20:29] <jose> cool, do you have a wiki page?
[20:30] <lazyPower> i do not
[20:30] <jose> ok, I'll just link to LP
[20:31] <jose> and it's on the schedule now, thanks a lot! :)
[20:35] <Tug> sorry I don't get it: http://pastebin.com/y75UbaGS
[20:35] <Tug> install: line 27: syntax error in conditional expression
[20:36] <Tug> looks like a bash error
[20:36] <Tug> but I can't see any
[20:38] <lazyPower> Tug: and line 27 that i see is [[ -x /usr/sbin/nginx ]] || install_nginx
[20:38] <Tug> yes
[20:38] <Tug> same syntax as install from node-app charm
[20:38] <lazyPower> hmm
[20:39] <lazyPower> the syntax looks fine
[20:40] <Tug> yeah really weird
[20:41] <lazyPower> when you enable the xtrace, is that indeed where its choking?
[20:42] <Tug> I'll try but I just realized I may have forgot to install juju-local
[20:43] <Tug> is there a way to remove the failed service without destroying environment ?
[20:44] <Tug> destroy service set the service to "life: dying"
[20:44] <Tug> but it's not removed from the environment
[20:49] <lazyPower> Tug: are you on stable or devel series of juju?
[20:49] <Tug> lazyPower, xtrace you meant with "set -eux" ?
[20:49] <lazyPower> yeah, adding the x flag.
[20:49] <Tug> lazyPower, yes
[20:50] <lazyPower> Tug: i meant, ar eyou on stable? or are you on devel?
[20:50] <Tug> $ juju --version
[20:50] <Tug> 1.16.6-saucy-amd64
[20:50] <Tug> stable I think
[20:50] <lazyPower> ok, you dont have the force flag on that version of juju
[20:50] <lazyPower> :(
[20:50] <Tug> I can go to devel if you want
[20:50] <lazyPower> i dont recommend it
[20:50] <lazyPower> theres no upgrade path for deployments made with devel
[20:51] <Tug> what is the force flag going to dio ?
[20:51] <lazyPower> you could force destroy the machine, then the service would remove itself
[20:51] <lazyPower> there's got to be a failed hook in your env if its not clearing itself up and stuck in dying
[20:51] <lazyPower> you'll have to resolve it using juju resolve service/#  until it goes away.
[20:52] <lazyPower> if its a dependent service, i recommend looking at why it failed on the dependent service
[20:52] <Tug> yeah, that's how I'm doing: "juju destroy-environment"
[20:53] <Tug> yeah I'm actually debugging it
[20:53] <Tug> and it's the bash error
[20:53] <lazyPower> you cant destroy a service while you're in debug-hooks :|
[20:53] <Tug> but I can't figure it out
[20:53] <lazyPower> the hook execution doesn't complete until you leave that context, which is why it would be stuck in a dying state.
[20:54] <Tug> I'm not using degub-hooks
[20:54] <Tug> I'm on the local provider
[20:54] <Tug> so it does not work
[20:54] <Tug> I'm just tailing the log file
[20:54] <lazyPower> ... debug-hooks work son local provider last i checked
[20:55] <lazyPower> remoting into my 1.16 farm, 1 moment. I'll validate that statement
[20:55] <Tug> oh sorry I was mixing with debug-log
[20:55] <Tug> never tried debug-hooks actually
[20:55] <lazyPower> yeah :) debug-log is bugged atm
[20:55] <lazyPower> oh man its great
[20:55] <lazyPower> run your hooks in interactive mode to dbug
[20:56] <lazyPower> make live edits to your hooks and re-run them
[20:56] <lazyPower> its actually how i write 3/4 of my charms when i'm prototyping.
[20:56] <Tug> ok let's try :)
[20:57] <Tug> wow!
[20:57] <lazyPower> pretty neat huh?
[20:57] <Tug> it logged me in the machine ?
[20:57] <Tug> yeah
[20:57] <lazyPower> yeah, you're in an interactive tmux session. as hooks execute, you'll see the context of the tmux session change
[20:57] <lazyPower> so, to run your hooks you just call
[20:57] <lazyPower> hooks/hookname
[20:58] <lazyPower> (From within the hook context, that does nothing if you're not in an executing hook context)
[20:59] <Tug> mmm
[20:59] <Tug> How can I run it again now that it has errored ?
[21:00] <lazyPower> juju resolved -r service/#
[21:00] <lazyPower> the -r is shorhand for --retry
[21:01] <Tug> so cool !
[21:01] <Tug> yeah so I'm back to that bash error ^^
[21:01] <Tug> but it sure is better than tailing logs
[21:05] <lazyPower> Tug: start peeling away the layers of complexity
[21:06] <Tug> yeah I think the error is misleading
[21:06] <Tug> install % [[ -x /usr/sbin/nginx ]] || echo "hello"
[21:06] <Tug> hello
[21:07] <lazyPower> so its in that method
[21:07] <lazyPower> ?
[21:07] <Tug> neither
[21:07] <Tug> I just copy pasted it in the shell and it worked
[21:07] <lazyPower> hmm
[21:08] <lazyPower> did you set eux on your shell?
[21:08] <Tug> yes
[21:08] <sarnold> hey Tug :)
[21:08] <Tug> hi sarnold
[21:27] <Tug> lazyPower, how can I resume debugging ?
[21:27] <lazyPower> Tug: beg pardon?
[21:28] <Tug> I want to try again
[21:28] <Tug> $ juju resolved -r nirror-front/0
[21:28] <Tug> ERROR cannot set resolved mode for unit "nirror-front/0": already resolved
[21:28] <lazyPower> ah, well since its in the install hook
[21:28] <lazyPower> and its very difficult to attach to the unit before it kicks off the install hook
[21:28] <lazyPower> i would temporarilly return an exit code > 0
[21:28] <lazyPower> eg: return 1 from your install hook
[21:28] <lazyPower> then you can attach to it and repeat the steps
[21:30] <Tug> mm, it's marked as installed now
[21:30] <Tug> agent-state: installed
[21:30] <lazyPower> destroy and try again :)
[21:30] <Tug> ok :)
[21:42] <lazyPower> ok, i'm out for now
[21:42] <Tug> thanks for your help lazyPower
[21:42] <lazyPower> Tug: if you get stuck and nobody's responsive in #juju over the weekend try the list.
[21:42] <Tug> ok
[21:43] <lazyPower> and no problem :) Happy to help
[21:43] <lazyPower> feel free to ping me if you need anything
[21:44] <Tug> thank you :)
[22:52] <Tug> is manual provisioning not available in stable version ?
[22:52] <Tug> $ juju switch manual
[22:52] <Tug> ERROR "manual" is not a name of an existing defined environment
[22:56] <marcoceppi> Tug: it is, but you have to edit the environments.yaml file
[22:57] <marcoceppi> I think in 1.16 it's called "null" which is dumb
[22:57] <marcoceppi> just change "null" to manual
[22:58] <Tug> yeah I saw the "null" entry, wonder what it was for
[22:58] <Tug> thx marcoceppi I'll do that
[22:58] <marcoceppi> Tug: we renamed null to manual provider
[23:04] <Tug> I set "bootstrap-user: root" but it's trying to connect using my current user
[23:10] <Tug> found this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1280432 it's probably related
[23:10] <_mup_> Bug #1280432: manual provider regression on bootstrap-user <manual-provider> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280432>
[23:15] <blackboxsw> marcoceppi, still workin on getting that review through ou team for block-storage-broker charm in shape for charmstore. thanks for the comments. we'll have something merged in next week for that to also include EC2 support and copyright files and I'll ping you on that review
[23:15] <marcoceppi> blackboxsw: sweet
[23:19] <blackboxsw> interesting juju destroy-service question for folks for a principal and subordinate relationship.
[23:19] <blackboxsw> the subordinate provides a mounted volume to the principal, and will not unmount that volume until the principal's service is stopped
[23:19] <blackboxsw> but relation-departed fires first on the subordinate during juju destroy-service principal-service
[23:20] <blackboxsw> so I'm wondering if there is a way I can make the subordiante's departed hook wait or replay after the principal's
[23:20] <blackboxsw> the principal's departed relation will stop the service in question
[23:21] <blackboxsw> I was wondering if juju-run would give me this functionality from the subordinate (to call the principal's stop hook) but I can't run juju-run from within a hook context
[23:22] <blackboxsw> just musing about how to solve the subordinate/principal hook ordering dependency
[23:23] <blackboxsw> just a note: juju remove-relation principal-service subordinate-service seems to fire the principal's departed hook 1st, so this didn't cause a problem. just juju destroy-service I think
[23:23] <blackboxsw> again it's friday, so I was dropping this bomb out there to see if there were any wild ideas