[02:47] <tocohead> question, want to install ubuntu 12.04 and have a 64 bit but it recomends 32bit, why and which is best?
[19:48] <raub> Could anyone explain what this general protection error means: http://pastie.org/private/eejldmsp4ify74wsxpavg
[20:10] <xiaoy> raub, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_protection_fault
[20:57] <raub> xiaoy: so I should not assume it is a bug in glibc?
[20:57] <xiaoy> why would you assume that?


[12:01] <persia> cody-somerville, soren, cjwatson, geser, stgraber, bdrung: about?
[12:02] <soren> yeah
[12:04] <cjwatson> hi
[12:04] <cjwatson> don't we have a new board yet? :)
[12:05] <persia> We're picking one today, so this is the last for both of you.
[12:05] <persia> If we fail to get quorum to pick one, I'll pass the information received to the TB, and so there will be one for next time.
[12:09] <persia> stgraber, cody-somerville, bdrung ?
[12:09] <persia> Just need one more.
[12:13] <cjwatson> sigh
[12:14] <persia> Right.  I don't want to chair a non-meeting.
[12:14] <persia> cjwatson, soren: Thanks a lot for serving on the DMB.  You will be missed.
[12:14] <persia> I'll ask the TB to select a new DMB from the nominees, with the poll data.
[12:14] <persia> And the new DMB can process the pending applications.
[12:15] <cjwatson> You're welcome; bye!
[12:15] <cjwatson> oh wait
[12:15]  * geser waves
[12:15] <persia> Oh, hey geser!
[12:15] <cjwatson> aha, quorum
[12:15] <persia> #startmeeting
[12:15] <MootBot> Meeting started at 06:15. The chair is persia.
[12:15] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:16] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[12:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[12:16] <persia> [TOPIC] Selection of a new DMB
[12:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Selection of a new DMB
[12:16]  * persia ends the poll
[12:16]  * Amaranth rushes to vo....oh
[12:16] <Amaranth> ;)
[12:17] <persia> So, we had some nominees, and we had a poll.
[12:17] <persia> Results are now available, with 93 voters.
[12:17] <persia> [LINK] http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_924ef5b8e9f6d03b
[12:17] <geser> not bad
[12:17] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.cs.cornell.edu/w8/~andru/cgi-perl/civs/results.pl?id=E_924ef5b8e9f6d03b
[12:18] <persia> So, do we wish to accept the winning set from CIVS?  Any reservations or concerns?
[12:18]  * bdrung is here now.
[12:18] <soren> persia: lgtm
[12:18] <cjwatson> so all incumbents stay, and Laney and maco replace soren and me
[12:19] <persia> That would be the result, yes.
[12:19] <cjwatson> fairly tight race around the boundary
[12:19]  * cdbs came last
[12:20] <cjwatson> but I don't see a reason to be concerned about the result
[12:20] <persia> Well, if both of those departing are happy, and since the rest of us have obvious bias, I'll call that agreed.
[12:21] <persia> [AGREED} New DMB to be the winners of the CIVS poll, without modification or adjustment.
[12:21] <MootBot> AGREED received: [AGREED} New DMB to be the winners of the CIVS poll, without modification or adjustment.
[12:21] <Daviey> "None of the above" did particularly poorly.
[12:21] <cjwatson> does that come into effect after this meeting, or immediately? :)
[12:21] <cjwatson> (because if immediately, we probably just became inquorate)
[12:21] <persia> We'd lose quorum if it's immediate.  You're the closest to the TB we have available: how long did the term extension last?
[12:22] <cjwatson> "does not expect this to be complete until after 14th February", from your original mail
[12:22] <cjwatson> and the TB agreed to an extension covering that
[12:23] <cjwatson> so I think it's OK to consider the extension as covering this meeting
[12:23] <persia> I assert it's still 14th February, as none of us are in New Zealand or points east.
[12:23] <persia> Moving on.
[12:23] <cjwatson> the new DMB will need to select their own meeting times, etc., anyway
[12:23] <persia> [TOPIC] MOTU Application for Sylvestre Ledru
[12:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU Application for Sylvestre Ledru
[12:24] <persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
[12:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/SylvestreLedruMOTU
[12:24] <persia> The LP link on that page is broken.
[12:24] <persia> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre
[12:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~sylvestre
[12:24] <cdbs> Why was the page created under the UbuntuDevelopment/ directory?
[12:24] <cdbs> is there a change in policy?
[12:24] <cjwatson> no
[12:24] <persia> No
[12:25] <cjwatson> wiki layout in "random" shocker :)
[12:25] <bdrung> the launchpad link is broken
[12:25] <persia> bdrung, That's why I posted two links :)
[12:25] <persia> Sylvestre, are you present?
[12:25] <cjwatson> I've taken the liberty of editing his application to fix the LP link
[12:28] <persia> He doesn't seem to be present.
[12:28] <persia> Moving on.
[12:28] <persia> [TOPIC] Development application for Dave Walker
[12:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Development application for Dave Walker
[12:28] <Daviey> o/
[12:29] <persia> Daviey is applying for all of MOTU, Server, and Core at the same time.  I trimmed that down to just core-dev.
[12:29] <Daviey> persia, Yes, but i did want to go through the process for the other two
[12:29] <persia> Daviey's application has not yet aged the week we request.  Do we wish to review it today, or wait for general comments, and review next time?
[12:29] <cjwatson> core-dev covers the lot, although it's rational to apply for the lot since that means that if we decline his core-dev application he doesn't need to go through another application cycle for the others
[12:29] <persia> Daviey, code-dev is a member of both others.
[12:30] <persia> Indeed.  That's how I read it: if we reject core-dev, we re-review MOTU and Server.
[12:30] <Daviey> persia, Direct inclusion or through inheritance?
[12:30] <persia> inheritence.
[12:31] <persia> But, in practice, it doesn't matter.  You get the badges on LP.  You get accepted by the teams if you're working with them, etc.
[12:31] <Daviey> persia, yeah, it's just that server-dev is looking  kinda neglected.. so wanted to help raise the membership count addionally.
[12:31] <soren> Well, not he server package set one.
[12:31] <soren> s/ he/ the/
[12:32] <soren> core-dev isn't a member of that team, IIRC.
[12:32] <Daviey> the package set isn;t quite ready yet, is it cjwatson ?
[12:32] <soren> Or am I on crack again?
[12:32] <Daviey> I was under the impression  it was waiting for the first member for the process to be completed
[12:32] <soren> Yeah, core-dev is not a member of that team.
[12:33] <cjwatson> the package set exists and AFAIK is administered by the DMB
[12:33] <persia> No, the process is complete.  At this point, any issues are implementation bugs.
[12:33] <Daviey> Last time i polled the ACL, server-dev didn't have access.
[12:33] <cjwatson> indeed, that would imply the DMB delegating permissions
[12:34] <cjwatson> which is generally a separate discussion from creating a package set
[12:34] <cjwatson> oh, wait, the DMB owns ubuntu-server-dev
[12:34] <persia> And I believe we had that discussion at the time server-dev was created, and decided that we would not delegate at this time.
[12:34]  * Daviey wonders if he can be heard this meeting, but with the final ack being done with now+1 week pending criticism of his application.
[12:34] <cjwatson> == All uploaders for package set 'ubuntu-server' in 'natty' ==
[12:34] <cjwatson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-server' in natty
[12:34] <cjwatson> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-server-dev: archive 'primary', package set 'ubuntu-server' in natty
[12:35] <cjwatson> so ubuntu-server-dev does have access to the ubuntu-server package set
[12:35] <persia> So all is good.
[12:35] <cjwatson> and mathiaz was the first member there
[12:35] <Daviey> oh... that has been updated since i  last polled then :/
[12:36] <Daviey> or i am on soren;s crack
[12:36] <persia> Opinions on questioning Daviey today?  Do any DMB members want more time to develop interesting questions?
[12:37] <soren> I have perhaps one question.
[12:37] <soren> Is there anything specific that you intend to work on that's outside of MOTU+ubuntu-server-dev's reach?
[12:38] <Daviey> soren, yes - I have an interest in the whole platform
[12:38] <Daviey> Which was one reason i worked on dpkg.
[12:38]  * soren can relate to that :)
[12:38]  * bdrung is still reading the application.
[12:38] <Daviey> The server set isn't exactly complete for my interests.
[12:39] <soren> ...but if we're not going the process the applicatino today, it doesn't matter anyway.
[12:39] <Daviey> You can see the difference if you look at the assigned packages for bug purposes and the package set
[12:39] <Daviey> it's reasonably large.
[12:39] <persia> cjwatson, geser: are you fine with questioning Daviey today?
[12:39] <geser> I'm fine
[12:40] <cjwatson> I'm OK, though I've added a brief endorsement on his application too so don't really have any questions
[12:40] <Daviey> One of the reasons i've got around to apply, is that i'm finding that I want to work on less - as i'm using up my favours of sponsorship working on things i HAVE to work on, rather than the addition of things i want to work on.
[12:40] <Daviey> s/apply/applying/
[12:41] <persia> Daviey, How do you think we can encourage more peer-review by Ubuntu Developers?
[12:41] <Daviey> persia, well the patch pilot scheme has IMO already made a massive difference to this.
[12:42] <Daviey> But it still lacks personal attachment.
[12:42] <soren> People use the patch pilot for peer reviews?
[12:42] <Daviey> No.
[12:42] <Daviey> Ah sorry
[12:42] <soren> Oh.
[12:42] <Daviey> i missread the question
[12:42] <persia> Does it?  While I like what patch-pilot is doing for sponsoring, I don't see how it helps peer-review between Ubuntu Developers.
[12:42] <Daviey> I think UDD can make a larger difference with this.
[12:43] <Daviey> I don't feel enough people use merge requests.
[12:43] <cjwatson> what do you mean by peer review?
[12:43] <Daviey> I agree that JFDI attitude can help productivity
[12:43] <cjwatson> you mean people who are already Ubuntu developers?  (just clarifying)
[12:43] <Daviey> cjwatson, Developers that can upload, asking peers to review it before uploading
[12:44] <cjwatson> ah, right, thanks
[12:44] <cjwatson> if you understood the question I suppose that's all that matters :)
[12:44] <Daviey> heh
[12:44] <Daviey> Yes, well JFDI can aid productivity - but something i have noticed; tradionally the server has often got a little rough end of the deal, when a feature in Desktop is needed
[12:45] <Daviey> Plymouth introduction was quite bad for Server IMO.
[12:45] <persia> Do you think encouraging peer review would help that, or do you think we need more coordination between flavours?
[12:45] <Daviey> And some packages where silly mistakes have been made, could have been avoided if they had a once over.
[12:46] <soren> Plymouth will end up as a big advantage for server users, too, though.
[12:46] <Daviey> Some packages i've seen have had almost hacking away at a bug, until it's fixed.
[12:46] <soren> ...but that's a separate discussion :)
[12:46]  * persia has seen packages hacked away at until they aren't fixed, but the tests passed
[12:46] <Daviey> persia, Yeah, i realised as i was typing that; it's two issues really.
[12:46] <cjwatson> one thing I noticed, as somebody caught in the middle, was that a number of server folks basically had the attitude of "no, it was fine as it was, we want you to rip this all back out" rather than an attitude of trying to improve new packages so that they could cover both server and desktop bases
[12:46] <Daviey> soren, agreed... but the introduction could have been better handled perhaps.
[12:46] <persia> So, what's your proposal?  Since you don't like it, and you're wanting to join Core dev...
[12:46] <cjwatson> do you think this is a fair criticism, is it recognisable to you, and what do you think we can do about it?
[12:47] <cjwatson> (this is very much something core-devs need to deal with - we're supposed to be integrating, not just picking a side)
[12:47] <Daviey> cjwatson, interesting... i had not seen that attitude being too obvious.
[12:47] <Daviey> cjwatson, I know some *users* mentioned that...but not sure it was clear cut within the team
[12:48] <cjwatson> ok, that's a reasonable response, the boundary wasn't always clear to me
[12:48] <Daviey> Many of the server team want to see more polish... and on a non-LTS release perhaps making it better is greater than stability on server.
[12:48] <Daviey> (not desktop or other flavours)
[12:49] <soren> I cannot count how many hours I've spent on IRC, IRL, on blogs, eetc explaining that event driven boot isn't *just* about speeding things up.
[12:49] <Daviey> soren, yes, upstart actually has more benefits to server than desktop IMO.
[12:50] <Daviey> Particulary if upstart adds some of the features it initially blueprinted.
[12:50] <soren> I can kind of see where people are coming from, though. Stuf that used to work suddenly didn't. It's easy to blame The New, Big Thing[tm].
[12:50] <Daviey> such as xinetd incorporation.
[12:51] <persia> So, let's step away from discussing upstart features.
[12:51] <Daviey> It's unfortunate that this often means increasing the delta with Debian.
[12:51] <persia> I'm still curious how the issue that makes Daviey unhappy could be addressed.
[12:52] <Daviey> persia, Something we considered at a team level was peer review of every upload after a certain mark in the release schedule
[12:52] <Daviey> It wasn't entirely agreed... but there was also some support for this.
[12:52] <Daviey> This was also discussed at the last UDS...
[12:52] <persia> Daviey, Did you imagine people would have reviews by people in their immediate teams (with interest in the package), or from other teams?
[12:53] <Daviey> ... and that was "eventful"... but that was the whole platform, not just a specific area.
[12:53] <Daviey> persia, both...
[12:53] <persia> Will you be bringing this issue to next UDS?
[12:53] <Daviey> If the package is depends/recommends of another team, then the merge proposal is a good way of notifing them of a potential diff
[12:53] <Daviey> persia, Yes.
[12:54] <geser> Daviey: isn't this peer-review like a spsonsorship for each upload which seems to slow you down in your productivitiy?
[12:54] <Daviey> geser, interesting you say that...
[12:54] <soren> :)
[12:54] <Daviey> I would like to point out the peer review blog post regarding either bzr/lp... don't have it handy
[12:55] <Daviey> But i think it might slow people down initially... but a review can be quite fast when in the habbit
[12:55] <bdrung> Daviey: how can we encourage devs to review packages from other teams? i am doing reviews for the package in the teams i am involved with and doing sponsoring, but i never reviewed packages from outside the team IIRC.
[12:55] <Daviey> geser, equally, sometimes it's good to be slowed down :)
[12:55] <Daviey> bdrung, It depends - is this packages outside a set?
[12:56] <persia> Not all team-maintained packages happen to have corresponding packagesets today.
[12:56] <bdrung> Daviey: i maintain most packages in Debian
[12:56] <persia> But for several teams, there are no outside contributions, despite the lack of packageset
[12:56] <Daviey> bdrung, you must be busy :)
[12:57] <Daviey> persia, The blog post i'd like to refer you to made specifc references to working outside your comfort zone.
[12:57] <Daviey> I'd LOVE to be more involved in development outside my daily duties
[12:57] <Daviey> I think it adds an education factor, and better understanding
[12:57] <persia> Hrm?  I'm just responding to the question "is this packages outside a set", to indicate that we have a very weak mapping of teams and packagesets currently.
[12:58] <Daviey> Sometimes doing reviews can be harder than doing the change yourself.. and reviewing outside comfort zone makes everyone better IMO.
[12:58] <Daviey> persia, Perhaps my response would have been better targeted towards bdrung
[12:59]  * persia is done with questions
[12:59] <Daviey> persia, but yes, having good defintions of teams/people linked to packages makes it easier to know who to talk to
[12:59] <Daviey> It then reduces the need to maintain in-head knowledge
[13:00] <Daviey> For example, i know not to touch some packages without speaking to certain individuals/teams
[13:00] <Daviey> And having a good person+team/package list defintion helps new contributors IMO.
[13:01] <bdrung> Daviey: assuming that i want to have my changes reviewed. then i push the bzr branch with my changes and create a merge proposal. wo will get notified with this merge proposal? what do i need to do to get notified about the packages i care about?
[13:02] <Daviey> bdrung, It might require a bug against LP, AIUI currently you have to select who reviews it.
[13:03] <Daviey> I want to add, that i don't think it should be mandatory, but a better ethos of people asking each other,.... perhaps even informal
[13:04] <bdrung> hm, it would be nice if lp gives you the possibility to subscribe to merge proposals for specific packages and a way to query who is subscribed and has upload rights (= similar to Uploaders in d/control)
[13:04] <Daviey> What i have said so far, is possibly better continued in a shared UDS session.... and not one chappy spouting his opinions :)
[13:04] <Daviey> bdrung, agreed!
[13:05] <bdrung> Daviey: yes, let's continue this discussion on an other channel / next UDS
[13:05] <persia> Daviey, The key is that this is a time when you have the spotlight to complain, and we have a duty to ensure you can move forward to solve the problem.  You taking it to UDS is the right answer in both cases.
[13:05] <persia> Anyone else have other questions for Daviey?
[13:06] <bdrung> no
[13:06] <soren> no
[13:06] <cjwatson> not I
[13:06] <persia> Great.
[13:07] <persia> Please feel free to vote by email to the d-m-b list, and I'll take a final tally when the comment period completes, with a renewed call for votes in the event that quorum is not reached.
[13:07] <persia> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
[13:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
[13:07] <cjwatson> why vote by e-mail rather than here?
[13:07] <Daviey> Oh, and one more thing... i am *sometimes* wrong.  Greater peer review just might not work.. but it'sworth trying - if it doeshelp improve quality.
[13:08] <persia> I don't want to vote until after the comment period, in case something happens to change my vote.
[13:08] <cjwatson> in that case I shouldn't vote at all
[13:08] <persia> Probably not: we'll consider your comment.
[13:08] <Daviey> ho hum ding.
[13:09]  * cjwatson sends mail
[13:09] <persia> So, the newly selected DMB does not have agreement on meeting times.  We'll try to select some by email, and try to announce them by next Monday, to ensure that applicants can know when they have to attend a meeting when applying.
[13:09] <persia> [TOPIC] Anything else
[13:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Anything else
[13:09] <persia> Anyone have anything here?
[13:11] <persia> Excellent.
[13:11] <persia> #endmeeting
[13:11] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:11.
[13:11] <soren> \o/
[13:11] <persia> Thanks everyone for coming.
[13:11] <cjwatson> So long and thanks for all the fish!
[13:11] <bdrung> :)
[13:12] <Daviey> thanks all for hearing me.
[13:17] <cjwatson> persia: oh, somebody should take over developer-membership-board@ and devel-permissions@ list administration from me.  Do you want to do it?
[13:18] <persia> Oh, very much not, but I suppose I ought.  Please do adjust them to me.
[13:18] <cjwatson> or if somebody else wants it that's fine too
[13:18] <cjwatson> do you have the passwords?
[13:18] <persia> And I'll hope I can find another victim from the new DMB.
[13:18] <persia> I don't believe I have the passwords: I'd appreciate them fresh in any case.
[13:19] <cjwatson> I'll send you them by encrypted mail
[13:20] <persia> Thanks.
[13:20] <persia> How would you like us to make requests for TB-changes to ACLs?  random ping?  mail to you?  Mail to TB?
[13:21] <cjwatson> mail to TB is probably the right thing
[13:21] <cjwatson> I'm sure I'll often pick them up, but it would be best not to enshrine myself in a process
[13:25] <persia> makes sense.  I'll ensure we do that in the future.
 hm, it would be nice if lp gives you the possibility to subscribe to merge proposals for specific packages and a way to query who is subscribed and has upload rights (= similar to Uploaders in d/control)  <-- yes yes yes please
[15:58] <skaet> hi ara, bjf
[15:58] <bjf> moin
[15:58] <ara> hey skaet!
[15:59]  * charlie-tca waves
[15:59]  * skaet waves back to charlie-tca
[15:59]  * hggdh grabs new coffee
[15:59] <jibel> Hi all!
[16:00]  * marjo waves
[16:00] <skaet> looks like quorum,  so time to start.  :)
[16:01] <skaet> #startmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is skaet.
[16:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:01] <skaet> Reminder, please follow the convention  of using ".." on a separate line when you've finished typing.    Also, If someone wants to comment on the last point, please "o/", so we know to wait.
[16:01] <skaet> This meeting will be focusing on the 10.04.2 release.
[16:01]  * charlie-tca hides
[16:01] <skaet> Couple of snags cropped up in the image creation on Friday, and a few more on the sniff testing over the weekend, so want to make sure we're all seeing the same priorities
[16:02] <ara> sounds like a plan
[16:02]  * zul waves
[16:02] <skaet> On the good news front,  hardware cert has mostly finished the 2 week hardware certification runs, and no regressions were found as of last friday.  More details from ara later. :)
[16:03] <skaet> Images currently under rebuild are Xubuntu, and the K/Ubuntu DVDs.
[16:03] <skaet> Any questions before I get into the mailed out agenda/round table?
[16:03] <skaet> ..
[16:03] <ara> skaet, are we building Xubuntu 10.04.2 images? :)
[16:03] <skaet> ara, yes they're being rebuilt.
[16:04] <ara> I thought point releases images were just for Ubuntu
[16:04] <ara> I guess I was wrong
[16:04] <charlie-tca> \o
[16:04] <skaet> charlie-tca, go
[16:04] <charlie-tca> There are being built by request, for Xubuntu
[16:05] <charlie-tca> We did not do the .1 release, and wanted to get new stuff into the image, instead of the 352 updates after installing
[16:05] <charlie-tca> ..
[16:05] <marjo> charlie-tca: are testers lined up & committed?
[16:05] <charlie-tca> yes
[16:06] <marjo> charlie-tca: thx much
[16:06] <charlie-tca> You are welcome
[16:06] <skaet> ara, marjo - They are also being built for kubuntu.
[16:06] <marjo> skaet: ack
[16:06] <skaet> ok, no more hands, so on to the round table
[16:07] <skaet> [TOPIC] HW cert results and final image tests planned - ara
[16:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  HW cert results and final image tests planned - ara
[16:07] <ara> The HW testing for 10.04.2 went pretty well. We are happy with the coverage we got. The results are available at:
[16:07] <ara> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/point-release-testing/10_04_2.html
[16:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~hwcert/point-release-testing/10_04_2.html
[16:07] <ara> The systems that didn't get tested are due to problems of infrastructure or faulty hardware that needs to get replaced, but all in all, I think the results are good enough to give the thumbs up hardware wise.
[16:07] <skaet> :)
[16:08] <ara> About the testing of the final images, has anything hardware related changed from the candidate images until now?
[16:08] <skaet> bjf, sconklin: ^^ ?
[16:09] <sconklin> Not sure why you called on me, we don't have anything to do with the testing . . .
[16:09] <skaet> sconklin - has any change gone in in the last 2 weeks that could impact the hardware that you're aware of?
[16:09]  * skaet thinks not, but is just double checking.
[16:09] <sconklin> no.
[16:10] <bjf> you've not taken a new kernel from us during the point release process, so how could it ?
[16:10] <skaet> bjf, fair enough
[16:11] <ara> skaet, then, I guess there is no need to test the final images in hardware
[16:12] <ara> skaet, ?
[16:12] <skaet> ara,  sorry,  thinking if the boot infrastruture has changed
[16:13] <skaet> lets assume not unless rest of meeting brings up a good reason then.
[16:13] <ara> skaet, OK, so that's all from me
[16:13] <ara> ..
[16:13] <skaet> [TOPIC] QA sniff testing from weekend and hot issues - jibel
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA sniff testing from weekend and hot issues - jibel
[16:14] <jibel> 10.04.2 ISO Testing started last weekend and is going well.
[16:14] <jibel> 2 major issues have been found:
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 718749 (rebuild in progress)
[16:14] <jibel>  * bug 645818 (not a bug in lucid)
[16:14] <jibel> For 645818, we are looking for someone with a Lucid system, to create a bootable usb and confirm that he's not affected by this issue.
[16:14] <jibel> Last week, we have tested the upgrades from K/Ubuntu Desktop i386/amd64 Hardy and Karmic to 10.04.2.
[16:15] <jibel> 2 have been found issues found:
[16:15] <jibel> * bug 715206
[16:15] <jibel> * bug 715247
[16:15] <jibel> Untested images:
[16:15] <jibel> * Ubuntu Server Installation and upgrade
[16:15] <jibel> ..
[16:16] <jibel> any question ?
[16:16] <zul> do you guys need help with that?
[16:16] <jibel> hggdh, ^
[16:17] <hggdh> jibel: sorry, I was not aware I was to test 10.04.2
[16:17] <jibel> :-)
[16:17] <jibel> zul, okay we need help then
[16:17] <hggdh> I spent last week on hardy...
[16:18] <zul> jibel: ok ill bring it up in the meeting tomorrow then
[16:18] <jibel> zul, thanks.
[16:18] <skaet> jibel, how are we going to get testers to work around the maverick/natty bug for creation of 10.04.2 iso cds and usbs?   Is there some good documentation on this somewhere?
[16:20] <jibel> skaet, For testers I'll send an email to explain the issue, and point them to the bug report.
[16:21] <skaet> jibel, thanks - that will help.   I'll make sure its documented in release notes.
[16:22] <jibel> skaet, it's not a nice bug but the workaround is easy.
[16:22] <skaet> thanks jibel.    any other questions?
[16:23] <skaet> [TOPIC] Image build status and plans  - cjwatson
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Image build status and plans  - cjwatson
[16:24] <cjwatson> as far as I know most things are green, with the exception of my screwup that broke the Xubuntu images and Ubuntu DVDs (i386 only).  The code bug is fixed and rebuilds are in progress.
[16:25] <cjwatson> The only build issue I'm aware of is that the following images are oversized: Xubuntu desktop amd64, Xubuntu desktop powerpc, Xubuntu desktop powerpc+ps3, Xubuntu alternate powerpc
[16:25] <cjwatson> oh, and Kubuntu desktop i386
[16:25] <cjwatson> I don't know how much we care about those, and about which ones
[16:26] <skaet> charlie-tca, Riddell,  ^^ ?
[16:28]  * skaet looks around..
[16:28] <charlie-tca> we will live with it if I can't get them dow
[16:29] <charlie-tca> I will get someone to look at the Xubuntu desktop amd64 and try to squeeze it down
[16:30] <charlie-tca> The other ones, I guess I don't really card so much
[16:30] <skaet> charlie-tca, ok, thanks.   If we can't squeeze, we'll need to release note, so we should probably open a bug to track.
[16:30] <charlie-tca> I will do that
[16:31] <skaet> cjwatson.  I'll follow up with Riddell about Kubuntu after the meeting about Kubuntu
[16:31] <skaet> any other questions?
[16:32] <skaet> thanks cjwatson
[16:32] <skaet> [TOPIC] any new business?
[16:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  any new business?
[16:32] <skaet> or issues/concerns about 10.04.2?
[16:33] <skaet> ok,  thanks for attending,  we'll go back to the regular agenda next meeting.
[16:33] <pitti> I'm terribly sorry, missed the time
[16:33] <skaet> #endmeeting
[16:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
[16:33] <charlie-tca> Thanks, skaet
[16:34] <ara> thanks skaet
[16:34] <skaet> thanks bjf, sconklin, ara, jibel, cjwatson, charlie-tca
[16:35] <marjo> thx skaet
[16:35] <jibel> thanks for chairing skaet
[16:35] <skaet> thanks marjo
[16:36] <pitti> skaet: any fires which I need to put out in lucid?
[16:40] <skaet> pitti,  thanks,  can you look at the bugs that jibel raised, and make sure no kitten killers in them,  cjwatson's handling the image rebuilds.  I'll paste them or the log (if available) to you directly
[16:41] <pitti> skaet: thanks, will have a look once you paste
[18:00] <jjohansen> \o
[18:00]  * jdstrand waves
[18:01] <JackyAlcine> o/
[18:01]  * micahg waves
[18:01] <mdeslaur> hellow
[18:01] <kees> \o
[18:02]  * jdstrand waits for sbeattie
[18:05] <jdstrand> ok, let's get started
[18:05] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:05. The chair is jdstrand.
[18:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:05] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:05] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:05] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
[18:05] <jdstrand> only thing from last week is the ia32-libs. aiui, mdeslaur is doing lucid and sbeattie is working on the rest. Since it is assigned I don't think we need to bring it up every week
[18:06] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
[18:06] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: I'm doing hardy, not lucid
[18:06] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: oh, I actually knew that. not sure why I put lucid...
[18:07] <jdstrand> anyhoo
[18:07] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:07] <jdstrand> I am on community this week
[18:07] <jdstrand> Mozilla updates are imminent, so I will be testing and publishing firefox, xul and tbird soon
[18:07] <jdstrand> I got sidetracked last week by several things and made no progress on dbus/apparmor or dbus-glib update. Hopefully I can start on it again
[18:07] <jdstrand> Some of those things were profiling gnome thumbnailers, a chromium update, writing aa-disable, patch piloting and a number of meetings
[18:08] <jdstrand> I'm hoping this week will fair slightly better. micahg starts tomorrow, so I'll be handing off all the browser/mozilla stuff to him in the coming weeks
[18:08] <jdstrand> I think that's it from me
[18:08] <jdstrand> kees: you're up
[18:08] <mdeslaur> oh sweet! hi micahg!
[18:08] <micahg> hi mdeslaur
[18:09] <kees> okay
[18:09]  * jdstrand is *very* happy to have micahg coming on board :)
[18:09]  * kees hugs micahg
[18:09]  * micahg hugs kees back
[18:09] <kees> I've got a few USNs coming up this week
[18:10] <kees> I'm in happy-place, which means I'm going to try to knock out the gcc testsuite change upstreaming. maybe some more %pK patches to LKML
[18:10] <kees> honestly, the gcc stuff will probably eat most of my time. running the suite is crazy time-consuming
[18:11] <kees> I'd like to try to find people to fix the firefox and chromium hardening stuff
[18:11] <kees> afaik, firefox is still not PIE in natty, and chromium ARM has PIE disabled too
[18:11] <mdeslaur> :(
[18:12] <kees> that's it from me...
[18:12] <jdstrand> kees: is that not PIE for armel/firefox or all archs?
[18:13] <kees> jdstrand: non-PIE for all archs with firefox
[18:13] <jdstrand> bummer
[18:14] <kees> yeah, it's a gcc-4.5 regression. following-up with chrisccoulson has bubbled to near the top of my todo list finally.
[18:14] <jdstrand> micahg: would you be willing to work with chrisccoulson to conditionally set PIE for non-armel? (assuming it works for non-armel)
[18:14] <jdstrand> then kees can continue to try to find people to fix armel stuff
[18:14] <micahg> jdstrand: it was failing before on all arches, but sure :)
[18:14] <jdstrand> meh
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, it fails on i386
[18:14] <jdstrand> well, if it was failing everywhere, it sounds like chrisccoulson already knows about it
[18:15] <kees> yeah, I'm pretty sure the chromium and firefox PIE issues are separate
[18:15]  * jdstrand nods
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, the behaviour is unique to the i386 implementation of TLS
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> but i need to refresh my memory on the issue again ;)
[18:16] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson: cool. it would be great to not regress on this issue for natty release
[18:16] <jdstrand> I would think upstream would be interested in this too...
[18:16] <kees> the arm-pie-chromium issue is technically not a regression (it's been disabled for a while). I just want to also get it fixed.
[18:17] <jdstrand> kees: actually, on lucid it was only recently turned off
[18:17] <jdstrand> I'm not sure if that is because only recently people noticed or because it recently broke
[18:17] <kees> jdstrand: right, but my understanding was that it was due to chromium version bumps
[18:18] <kees> i.e. it became new enough that someone hit it. or something. dunno; this is why I want to spend some time to investigate and delegate. :)
[18:18] <jdstrand> I don't know the cause. I do consider disabling pie in a security update, regardless of version bumping, as a regression
[18:18] <jdstrand> of course, there isn't a lot we can do there...
[18:18]  * kees nods
[18:18] <jdstrand> kees: I appreciate you looking into it! :)
[18:19]  * sbeattie is here, reading scrollback
[18:20] <mdeslaur> my turn?
[18:21] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: as kees mentioned that was it from him, why don't you go
[18:21] <mdeslaur> So, I'm currently testing fuse updates, and will release them once lucid's fuse package in -proposed gets released
[18:22] <mdeslaur> Besides that, I need to take a look at ffmpeg
[18:22] <mdeslaur> and still have work to do on apparmor-profiles
[18:22] <mdeslaur> I also have some gnome-screensaver fixes I want to push to natty, and possibly SRU into lucid and maverick
[18:22]  * sbeattie saw mdeslaur's commits to the apparmor-profiles tree; nice start!
[18:23] <mdeslaur> and there was another package I wanted to work on this week...but...it slips my mind right now (d'oh!)
[18:23] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[18:24]  * sbeattie takes his turn.
[18:24] <sbeattie> I have a krb5 update that I'll release once this meeting is over.
[18:24] <sbeattie> I have an openssl update for right afterward, though I need to do a little more testing with it.
[18:25] <sbeattie> I made some progress on apparmor release stuff, and have more to do on that this week.
[18:25] <sbeattie> That's pretty much it for me.
[18:26] <jdstrand> sbeattie: I've seen a lot of those reviews. some of it should be quite nice (especially the opensuse stuff you slurped in)
[18:26] <sbeattie> thanks.
[18:27] <jdstrand> micahg: I know you only officially start tomorrow, but is there anything you'd like to mention? typically we mention what we hope to work on in the coming week, and occasionally work that we did last week as it might affect this week (or that is particularly cool)
[18:28] <jdstrand> micahg: it is ok to say 'no'. I know I just sprung this on you :)
[18:28] <micahg> Finish getting set up, I'd like to start looking at the webkit update, 1.2.7 is out
[18:29] <jdstrand> sounds great
[18:29] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:29] <jdstrand> One thing sbeattie mentioned to me last week is vendor-sec tracking
[18:29] <jdstrand> I'll let him expand on it if he wants, but the basic idea is that we treat it as quite ad-hoc
[18:30] <jdstrand> whoever happens to see something, mentions it
[18:30] <jdstrand> eg, the last postgresql update
[18:30] <jdstrand> we knew about it early, but we didn't let pitti know, and basically reacted to it
[18:31] <jdstrand> I wonder if this could be improved more?
[18:31] <jdstrand> we could try to use the CVE-2011-NNNX method more often
[18:31] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: did you have anything in mind?
[18:31] <kees> I've found the vsec threads difficult to really "triage" until they're reached a certain stage
[18:32] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: not really, this is just open for discussion (beyond what I just mentioned)
[18:32] <jdstrand> kees: yes, I tend to agree
[18:32] <jdstrand> I also don't tend to update my embargoed branch very often...
[18:32] <kees> sometimes there are weeks between something being brought up and it being remotely actionable.
[18:33] <jdstrand> true. that was indeed the case with postgres, iirc
[18:33]  * sbeattie wondered if he just needs better management of that particular email folder.
[18:34] <jdstrand> perhaps it would be best to identify any problems with the current system, and then see if we actually need to fix them
[18:35] <jdstrand> sbeattie: are there particular things you find lacking?
[18:36] <sbeattie> the concern I have is us not noticing stuff that comes through vendor-sec, because it comes in a mish-mash of stuff we don't as much about, because there's other active threads that are developing fixes that "drown" out other issues.
[18:36] <sbeattie> s/don't/don't care/
[18:37] <jdstrand> I think that is a valid concern
[18:37] <jdstrand> what do others think?
[18:37] <sbeattie> Was wondering if there was a light-weight way of coordinating that we can ignore certain threads, should watch others for deveopling fixes, etc.
[18:37] <micahg> maybe if one person can keep an eye on vendor-sec each week?
[18:38] <kees> traditionally this is the person doing "triage"
[18:38] <jdstrand> we could do something like what we do with USN assignments-- a one line assessment in a file...
[18:38] <jdstrand> I'm not sure how helpful that would be...
[18:38] <mdeslaur> I think vendor-sec is important enough that we all should be looking at it, not just the triage person
[18:38] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: what are your thoughts?
[18:38] <kees> I don't exactly see a specific problem to solve yet.
[18:38] <mdeslaur> bug, that being said
[18:39] <kees> mdeslaur: that's fair
[18:39] <jdstrand> I was on triage last week
[18:39] <mdeslaur> I think we should make sure to call out any packages we see that appear there, and make sure someone takes responsability for it
[18:39] <jdstrand> I mentioned only one item
[18:39] <mdeslaur> whether it be in a file or not
[18:40] <mdeslaur> if we notice that we're skipping some, I think we can move into doing the CVE-XXXX stuff, or even a simple file
[18:40] <jdstrand> in a way, this is preassignment
[18:40] <mdeslaur> so, in the case of postgresql, what exactly did we do wrong there?
[18:41] <mdeslaur> we didn't notify pitti?
[18:41] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: in that case, pitti told us about it, when we actually had the info
[18:41] <mdeslaur> when we saw something about postgresql, did we just assume pitti would be telling us about it?
[18:42] <jdstrand> well, without divulging too much info
[18:42] <jdstrand> there was a question posted regarding notifying upstream
[18:42] <jdstrand> the answer was that upstream was notified
[18:43] <jdstrand> then it sat there until pitti told us about it
[18:43] <jdstrand> but, the issuing wasn't critical
[18:43] <jdstrand> s/issuing/issue/
[18:43] <jdstrand> we all probably read the thread
[18:43] <jdstrand> I know I wasn't thinking it was a huge deal at the time
[18:43] <mdeslaur> I'm sorry...I though pitti _was_ postgresql upstream
[18:44] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: he is the debian maintainer
[18:44] <mdeslaur> oh!
[18:44] <jdstrand> he does not do upstream postgresql afaik
[18:44] <mdeslaur> ah, I thought he did, so I'm mistaken
[18:44] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: and he happens to provide updates for -security out of tradition
[18:44] <mdeslaur> so...we couldn't have told him anyway
[18:44] <jdstrand> yes we could have
[18:44] <mdeslaur> hmm
[18:45] <jdstrand> we are allowed to let developers who work on it know
[18:45] <jdstrand> eg, kernel embargoed stuff
[18:45] <jdstrand> they just have to know not to talk about it, etc
[18:45] <jdstrand> in fact, pitti may have already known
[18:45] <jdstrand> which I think is part of the problem in this particular case-- we didn't communicate
[18:46] <jdstrand> but then again, I wasn't thinking it was world-burning and a 0day we had to jump on
[18:46] <jdstrand> at least, as I recall from reading the thread from weeks ago
[18:46] <jdstrand> so, ok, let's drive this to resolution
[18:47] <jdstrand> a) is there a problem? b) if there is, is the answer pre-assigning?
[18:47] <jdstrand> I'm not sure there is a problem, per se
[18:47] <sbeattie> jdstrand: are you sure you're thinking of the right vuln? I don't see a "thread" about it, just a singlepost.
[18:48] <jdstrand> hold on
[18:51] <jdstrand> sbeattie: yes, I was. I responded privately
[18:52] <jdstrand> so, postgres aside
[18:53] <jdstrand> 12:47 < jdstrand> a) is there a problem? b) if there is, is the answer pre-assigning?
[18:53] <jdstrand> kees, sbeattie, mdeslaur: ^ opinions?
[18:53] <jdstrand> micahg: ^
[18:54] <sbeattie> right, the fear is that, if we didn't this particular postgresql issue until we were prompted from pitti, are we letting other things slip through the cracks.
[18:54]  * micahg doesn't know whether or not there's a problem yet :)
[18:54] <sbeattie> heh
[18:54] <mdeslaur> well, whatever slips through the cracks simply shows up after CRD
[18:54] <mdeslaur> it's not as if we're skipping updates altogether
[18:54] <jdstrand> right
[18:55] <mdeslaur> of course, we need to publish stuff at CRD
[18:55] <jdstrand> and we jump all over the world-burning stuff
[18:55] <mdeslaur> and I think everybody needs to read vendor-sec and make sure someone's got the ball on things we spot
[18:56] <jdstrand> well, that is a gray area
[18:56] <mdeslaur> I think postgresql is a bad example in this case
[18:56] <jdstrand> I mean, we don't need to jump on a low issue
[18:56] <mdeslaur> yes, and there are low issues on vendor-sec...and universe stuff also
[18:56] <jdstrand> many mediums we probably don't, though it is nice if we do
[18:57] <jdstrand> alright
[18:57] <kees> perhaps we should put stuff into the embargoed tree once a CVE has been assigned on vsec, or if it's serious enough with a very short CRD
[18:57] <jdstrand> kees: that is a good idea
[18:57] <jdstrand> if it has a CVE, put it in embargoed
[18:57] <jdstrand> tbh, we should have ben doing that all along
[18:57] <jdstrand> I certainly haven't
[18:57] <kees> right
[18:57] <kees> but they develop so slowly that it can span triagers
[18:58] <jdstrand> yeah
[18:58] <jdstrand> well, so we need to be updating our embargoed tree daily probably
[18:58] <kees> so perhaps the current triager should add CVEs, and update changing CRDs
[18:58] <jdstrand> and then as we see CVEs assigned in vsec, we add them
[18:58]  * jdstrand nods
[18:58] <mdeslaur> and skip everything that doesn't have a CVE? :P
[18:58] <kees> but, as mdeslaur says, we should probably all read it
[18:58] <jdstrand> others can check/follow-up with the triager
[18:59] <mdeslaur> seems to be that doesn't solve the problem :P
[18:59] <jdstrand> agreed
[18:59] <jdstrand> I think it does
[18:59] <jdstrand> it is tracked
[18:59] <jdstrand> it'll show up in cve_todo
[18:59] <mdeslaur> only stuff that has a CVE gets tracked
[18:59] <kees> mdeslaur: if something is coming fast without a CVE, it should get the CVE-2011-NNN1 or whatever
[18:59] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: or high priority stuff
[18:59] <jdstrand> then we use the convention kees just mentioned
[19:00] <mdeslaur> ok, so triager adds everything he sees to embargoed tree
[19:00] <jdstrand> when a cve is assigned, we bzr mv CVE-2011-NNN1 ...
[19:00] <jdstrand> I don't think so
[19:00] <kees> (and update the internal name)
[19:00] <jdstrand> all CVEs assignments
[19:00] <jdstrand> s/CVEs/CVE/
[19:00] <jdstrand> high priority or higher get CVE-2011-NNNX
[19:00] <jdstrand> but that is my opinion
[19:00] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:00] <mdeslaur> what about stuff not in main, we ignore it?
[19:01] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: yes
[19:01] <jdstrand> (again, my opinion)
[19:01] <jdstrand> well, ignore it in terms of CVE-2011-NNNX
[19:01] <jdstrand> ok
[19:02] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: so if it does get a cve, but is not in main, we add it to embargoed anyway?
[19:02] <jdstrand> I think that is fair
[19:02] <jdstrand> most of that ends up in oss-security anyway
[19:02] <jdstrand> (ie, not much maintenance work)
[19:02] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:02] <jdstrand> to summarize:
[19:02] <jdstrand> if has CVE with CRD, add to embargoed
[19:03] <jdstrand> if no CVE, but is officially supported and high priority, add to embargoed
[19:03] <jdstrand> (with CVE-YYYY-NNNX)
[19:03] <jdstrand> everyone reads the list
[19:03] <mdeslaur> ok
[19:03] <jdstrand> the triager adds
[19:04] <sbeattie> +1 from me
[19:04] <mdeslaur> what about CVE with no CRD?
[19:04] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg: ^ will that address the concerns/issues appropriately?
[19:05] <kees> mdeslaur: skip it, I think.
[19:05] <jdstrand> I agree
[19:05] <kees> jdstrand: sounds good; I've updated the Duties page
[19:05] <jdstrand> kees: thanks! :)
[19:05] <mdeslaur> ok, +1
[19:05] <jdstrand> well
[19:05] <jdstrand> actually, if it is supported, with a CVE but no CRD, we should ad it
[19:06] <jdstrand> otherwise skip
[19:06] <jdstrand> (that way it still shows up in our cve todo list
[19:06] <jdstrand> )
[19:07] <jdstrand> which gives us an opportunity to be reminded to followup with upstream, etc
[19:09] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie: ^
[19:09] <jdstrand> micahg: ^
[19:09] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: that sounds good
[19:09] <kees> +1
[19:09] <micahg> sounds good to me
[19:09] <kees> (Duties re-updated)
[19:09] <sbeattie> +1
[19:09] <jdstrand> micahg: you are not under my fingertips just yet :)
[19:09] <jdstrand> cool
[19:09] <jdstrand> ok
[19:09] <jdstrand> so, that is it from me
[19:10] <jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[19:10] <micahg> just an update on Mozilla stuff
[19:10] <micahg> no release today, on a day-to-day slip
[19:10] <jdstrand> thank goodness
[19:11] <jdstrand> I was going to be hardpressed to get it tested by eod
[19:11] <micahg> jdstrand: I wouldn't bother, there might be new builds
[19:11] <jdstrand> micahg: what is the new date?
[19:12] <micahg> jdstrand: when it's ready :)
[19:12] <jdstrand> micahg: and that is tentatively when? :)
[19:12] <micahg> jdstrand: they didn't say, I think they're hoping for tomorrow, but can't promise
[19:13] <jdstrand> well, then I need to test the current builds
[19:13] <jdstrand> otherwise I'll be hours to a day late
[19:13] <jdstrand> (depending on when they push it out)
[19:13] <jdstrand> anyhoo
[19:13] <jdstrand> I'll talk to you in #ubuntu-mozillateam
[19:14] <jdstrand> I think that's it then
[19:14] <jdstrand> thanks everyone! :)
[19:14] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[19:14] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:14.
[19:14] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[19:15] <sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
[19:15] <micahg> jdstrand: thanks :)
[19:16] <kees> thanks jdstrand :)
[19:16] <jdstrand> sure!


[18:56]  * highvoltage remembers just in time that it's Wednesday today
[19:10] <dinda> hi highvoltage same here - week is slipping by fast


[02:27] <nhandler> akgraner: Question 10 is missing a text box for the 'Other' option
[09:28] <alourie> good morning
[10:08] <alourie> akgraner: ping
[11:57] <akgraner> Good Morning!
[11:58] <alourie> hi Amber
[12:07] <akgraner> alourie, hey - I'll have all the templates ready for issue 214 in just a few - I need to finish the second half of publishing the newsletter
[12:07] <akgraner> it was just too late last nigh
[12:08] <akgraner> After UDS  - I think weekly training sessions until everyone on the team at leasts knows how to publish UWN from start to finish :-)
[12:08] <akgraner> Think we need a blueprint for that?
[12:08] <akgraner> thoughts?
[12:08] <akgraner> bbiab
[12:14] <alourie> akgraner: blueprint will allow the follow-up, so yea
[12:15] <alourie> and I think it's a really good idea that everyone knows how to publish UWN end-to-end
[12:19] <akgraner> alourie, me too :-)  for a gazillion and one reasons
[12:19] <akgraner> I have the instructions for most things already on the wiki's
[12:19] <akgraner> but I think it's better to go through things step by step
[12:20] <alourie> akgraner: sure thing
[12:21] <alourie> we then may have a "real" training sessions, so someone else would be issuing it each other week
[12:21] <akgraner> I think John Crawford and I were on the phone like 5 hours when I he was teaching me
[12:21] <akgraner> 5 hours straight...
[12:22] <alourie> wow
[12:22] <alourie> why so long?
[12:22] <akgraner> we were exhausted by the end of the conversation
[12:22] <alourie> yea, I imaging
[12:22] <akgraner> it's a lot of little steps
[12:22] <alourie> oh
[12:22] <akgraner> and he taught me all in one day
[12:22] <alourie> maybe there's a place for making it easier?
[12:22] <akgraner> I want to teach people all the steps over time so people are comfortable with each step
[12:23] <akgraner> alourie, maybe?  check out the wiki one sec I'll get you the link
[12:23] <alourie> akgraner: shoot
[12:23] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies
[12:24] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/EditingPolicies/HowToEdit
[12:24] <akgraner> eek I need to up the schedule wiki - :-/
[12:24] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Schedule
[12:24] <akgraner> but you'll get the idea
[12:25] <alourie> right
[12:25] <akgraner> the guidelines and suggestions need updating as we have included more things
[12:25] <akgraner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/SectionGuidelines
[12:26] <akgraner> here is my checklist spreadsheet that the wikis are based on - https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AtKZelXU8Y2LdFFxY0RhLVdaZU9xNk5zdTZIbFEyQVE&hl=en#gid=0
[12:26] <alourie> wow
[12:26] <alourie> Amber I must say
[12:26] <alourie> this is insane
[12:27] <akgraner> yes but before - there was nothing written down
[12:27] <akgraner> editors pasted this information to each other
[12:27] <alourie> yea :-)
[12:27] <akgraner> there was only a rough outline and editors "just knew" what to do
[12:27] <alourie> ok, I must run for a meeting, but I will give it a read over lunch :-)
[12:27] <akgraner> so I wrote it all down
[12:27] <alourie> you
[12:28] <alourie> you're amazing. That's hardly human to do in time...
[12:28] <alourie> ok then
[12:28] <akgraner> have fun at your meeting :-)
[12:28] <akgraner> catch you laters
[12:28] <alourie> I doubt it, but hey, I have no choice :-)
[12:28] <alourie> cheers
[12:30] <akgraner> :-) cheers
[13:23] <alourie> akgraner: hey, I'm back. I'm going for a lunch in a few moments, so I'll read the publishing wiki then
[13:25] <akgraner> alourie, no hurry just more of an FYI for ya right now :-)
[13:26] <alourie> yea
[13:27] <alourie> akgraner: before I forget, do we have 214 in place yet?
[13:29] <akgraner> yep we do
[13:29] <akgraner> well let me double check I think I added the links but not the template :-/
[13:33] <akgraner> yep we do now :-)
[13:39] <akgraner> Here's all the links for Issue 214  - thanks y'all
[13:39] <akgraner> Issue 214 will cover October 11th-16th 2010
[13:39] <akgraner> Here are the links for working on next weeks issue:
[13:39] <akgraner> * etherpad for adding summaries -  http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UWN
[13:39] <akgraner> * etherpad for adding links and titles only - http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UWN-Ideas
[13:39] <akgraner> * googledoc - https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdKZelXU8Y2LZGNrcHRkYmhfODlkODNxNnRnZA&hl=en
[13:39] <akgraner> * wiki page - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue214
[14:21] <alourie> akgraner: ok, so
[14:22] <alourie> I've read it, doesn't seem too complicated, just a lot of steps
[14:30] <akgraner> alourie, yep :-)
[14:31] <akgraner> and I even forget steps when I don't look at the list -
[14:31] <akgraner> :-)
[14:31] <akgraner> forgot one this week- change "on this site" to "in this issue" :-/
[14:32] <akgraner> when I emailed the list
[14:33] <akgraner> but it will be fixed on the forums post later
[14:33] <alourie> akgraner: maybe you should prepare some email/forums/IRC posts templates too?
[14:34] <akgraner> we have a script that changes things but having to fill out 3 different templates doesn't work for me  - I tried that
[14:34] <akgraner> but I can set them up incase it works for someone else
[14:37] <akgraner> I do have this  - http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UWN-In-This-Issue-and-Fridge-Posting
[14:37] <akgraner> but what works for me may not work for someone else - I can just give some suggestions and show how I do it
[14:38] <alourie> right
[14:39] <akgraner> so when we do the training people can come up with tweaks and ideas that work for them - but we have can have some base guidelines
[14:39] <alourie> sure
[14:39] <alourie> some of the steps can be done in parallel btw, such as postings to IRC, forums and ML
[14:40] <akgraner> well not really
[14:40] <akgraner> you have to post to the ubuntu-news mailing list 1st
[14:40] <akgraner> that's where it gets released 1st
[14:41] <akgraner> forums take the plain text version through a script then you post it to the forums with all the formating
[14:41] <alourie> ok
[14:42] <alourie> so after it's gone into -news, all the rest can be done with some scripting, right?
[14:42] <akgraner> so there is an order to how it is supposed to be done - but once it hits the ubuntu-news list - the IRC and other mailing List announcements can be made in parallel
[14:42] <alourie> right, ^^ that's what I was talking about
[14:42] <akgraner> well when I tried sending to all the mailing lists putting all the address in the to area - people got hit with 7 copies
[14:43] <akgraner> so the only fix I've had so far is to email them one at a time
[14:43] <akgraner> there is an RT ticket on it but so far no one knows what is causing that to happen on some lists but not others
[14:44] <akgraner> so while it seems like oh you can just do it this way - when you try the easy way - people get really unhappy with 7 copies of the same thing
[14:44] <alourie> oh, yes
[14:44] <akgraner> but I'll go through it all with everyone and we can iron all that out
[14:45] <alourie> excellent
[14:45] <akgraner> once I publish it the ubuntu-news mailing list to farm out some of the pieces to others so several people have a one thing
[14:45] <akgraner> instead of me doing it all would be great!
[14:46] <akgraner> but knowing if one person had to do it all you all know how - then we don't have to worry about any one person getting hit by a bus
[14:46] <akgraner> crap - I'm late bbiab
[14:46] <alourie> :-)
[17:38] <akgraner> grrrrrr
[17:39] <MichealH> akgraner: Op up and do +b adsl-69-236-163-254.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net$##fix-your-connection ?
[17:39] <MichealH> If you are talking about the /j's and /quits's
[17:41] <akgraner> no I'm not
[17:41] <akgraner> talking about that
[17:41] <MichealH> Oh
[17:42] <akgraner> wiki stuff
[17:42] <MichealH> Whats the matter?
[17:42] <MichealH> Oh :P
[17:42] <MichealH> I can patch it up if you like?
[17:42] <MichealH> akgraner: What needs doing?
[17:43] <akgraner> nothing it's what someone did helping  - but I really wish they hadn't - but it's cool - I'll get it fixed on the template
[17:44] <akgraner> MichealH, thank you though
[17:44] <akgraner> :-)
[17:44] <MichealH> akgraner: Anything i can do for UWN at the moment?
[17:45] <MichealH> Need a section for UWN that needs someone assigned?
[17:45] <MichealH> Anything? :)
[17:45] <akgraner> MichealH, if you want to do the Launchpad section
[17:45] <MichealH> Yeah
[17:45] <MichealH> Im good at LP
[17:45] <akgraner> just follow http://blog.launchpad.net/
[17:46] <akgraner> and if the post something that will still be valid on Monday - then add it to that section of UWN
[17:46] <MichealH> Okay :)
[19:24] <MichealH> akgraner: Where do I find the next UWN newsletter on the Wiki?
[19:51] <akgraner> MichealH,  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter under Next Issue (Work In Progress)
[19:53] <MichealH> Thanks
[19:53] <akgraner> If you have questions please drop me an email - as I am between a million things at the moment
[21:41] <cody-somerville> akgraner, ping
[21:42] <akgraner> png
[21:42] <akgraner> pong even :-/
[21:48] <newz2000> akgraner: tip. Try hard to work with charlie. Don't be too quick to go over his head or put extra pressure on him. He's more reasonable than he may sound in the e-mail you sent him.
[21:49] <akgraner> newz2000, ok - I think a call will help with all that
[21:50] <akgraner> :-)  it's hard to gage tone and stuff in emails - I am just really frustrated and trying hard to do everything the right way
[21:50] <newz2000> He'd really like a good answer to the question about why Canonical should not host it.
[21:52] <akgraner> we can't do what we need to do as Fridge editors
[21:52] <akgraner> all we can do if it's on a Canonical Server we can only add content - we can't make all the other changes we are doing now
[21:53] <newz2000> Talk to him about it. He's really turned around things on the sysadmin team in the last 8 weeks or so.
[21:53] <newz2000> He's really interested in finding workable solutions.
[21:54] <newz2000> And he does not know of the historical frustrations the fridge team has felt. He may have good solutions.
[21:54] <akgraner> ok  - but he can't understand my frustration if he doesn't feel my pain
[21:54] <newz2000> Be gentle to him. :-)
[21:54] <akgraner> or the historical pain we have all felt - but I'll be nice when I explain it
[22:00] <akgraner> newz2000, I just replied - tell if that is better - brb
[22:00] <newz2000> ok
[22:05] <newz2000> akgraner: good 2nd e-mail. I've replied to your prev e-mail asking them to hold off on intervening. Please exhaust your opportunities with charlie before going over his head. He is a contact worth building a good relationship with.
[22:05] <newz2000> I'm not sure I can participate in a call but when you have a time feel free to invite me.
[22:06] <newz2000> and by the way, everyone appreciates your enthusiasm in getting this done. You're on the right track.
[22:08] <highvoltage> newz2000++
[23:12] <akgraner> newz2000, thank you!
[23:17] <akgraner> highvoltage, thanks as well
[23:18] <akgraner> sorry I had to run - my daughter had to be a practice
[23:49] <akgraner> ahhhh - frozen margarita for me :-)  now to upgrade my machine... brb


[10:52] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[14:04] <xjunior> Good morning, guys! I have libmirserver0 marked to be removed, but it's also messing up the installation of libmirserver1. apt-get install -f doesn't solve the issue and manually remove libmirserver0 doesn't work. Is there another way of solving it?
[14:05] <ikonia> xjunior: is libmirserver1 listed as a dependency ?
[14:06] <xjunior> ikonia, I believe so. How can I be sure?
[14:06] <ikonia> check ?
[14:07] <xjunior> ikonia,
[14:07] <xjunior> this worked for em
[14:07] <xjunior> me
[14:07] <xjunior>  dpkg --install --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/libmirserver1*.deb
[14:07] <ikonia> that's not what I asked
[14:10] <xjunior> excuse me?
[20:29] <ironhalik> Hello
[20:29] <penguin42> hi
[20:29] <ironhalik> I'm wondering - on what kernel version is 3.10.0-6 based?
[20:29] <ironhalik> they usually are merged with upstream versions like 3.10.5
[20:31] <penguin42> ironhalik: According to /usr/share/doc/linux-image-3.10.0-6-generic/changelog.Debian.gz I'd say it's v3.10.3
[20:31] <Ampelbein> ironhalik: Confirming what penguin42 said, see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/saucy/+source/linux/+changelog
[20:31] <ironhalik> thanks guys
[20:33] <ironhalik> I was kinda afraid of the whole Mir migration, but decided what the hell and installed saucy on my laptop :>
[20:33] <ironhalik> so far so good ;>
[20:35] <Ampelbein> to be honest, unless mir works with the proprietary nvidia/amd drivers, it won't have a huge userbase.
[20:35] <ironhalik> yeah, I thought about it, too
[20:36] <ironhalik> but considering its Ubuntu making the change, and with valve support
[20:36]  * penguin42 hasn't tried Mir yet, I'm on KDE, I believe xmir should in principal work for that
[20:36] <ironhalik> theres a good chance Mir will end up with better driver support than X
[20:36] <penguin42> I thought it actually used the X drivers?
[20:37] <Daekdroom> penguin42, nope, it uses Open GL ES
[20:37] <Daekdroom> (I think?)
[20:37] <ironhalik> from what I recall, it will need new drivers
[20:37] <Daekdroom> Although there's something about it being compatible with Adrnoid drivers.
[20:37] <ironhalik> ^
[20:37] <Daekdroom> *Android
[20:38] <penguin42> oh hmm, interesting - I'd definitely read something saying it was using X drivers
[20:38] <Daekdroom> XMir will.
[20:39] <ironhalik> hmm, wiki seems to think that too
[20:39] <ironhalik> full driver support _should_ come with 14.10
[20:40] <ironhalik> considering how Xorg is universally hated by developers, driver devs may actually gladly support Mir
[20:40] <penguin42> Xorg isn't universally hated
[20:40] <ironhalik> seems to be :>
[20:41] <ironhalik> just to clarify, I'm not a linix dev, but I've seen _lots_ of rants about X
[20:42] <ironhalik> mainlt from various devs
[20:43]  * penguin42 has used it for a long time, and generally like it - but it does have some limitations which it'll be interesting to see how well things like Mir try and avoid
[20:48] <Daekdroom> "Tailored towards an EGL/GL(ES) world. " according to the specifications.
[21:10] <yofel> Mir needs EGL drivers, same as wayland


 I have to restart the monitor every time i make a change to the config file. I wish it would read the config every time it runs its connectivity sweep.
[05:53] <sarnold> sgraham: no, I hadn't heard of it before you mentioned it
[05:54] <sarnold> sgraham: you can probably do something slightly better with upstart -- if you use the "upstart-file-bridge" you ought to be able to restart the service when the configuration file is changed: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#upstart-file-bridge
[05:54] <sgraham> sometimes i have to take certain uplinks off line. Currently i have to reboot the software router when i make those changes because i start the monitor with a post up line in the interfaces file.
[05:55] <sgraham> at the time it seemed like the best way to do this process (because its a router so why not reload the configs when the interface reloads)
[05:56] <sgraham> ive decided the better way though is to make it an upstart job.  That way i make my changes to the config and then i can just run  "service fault_tolerant_router restart"
[05:57] <sgraham> that seems to work fine...i get this hang though when i try and reboot the physical router after starting it as a service.
[05:59] <sgraham> this problem does not seem to crop up with the virtual test environment though..(ill figure that out later via the logs)  The problem now is to get openvpn client to reconnect after the service is restarted.
[05:59] <sgraham> I dont want to wait 60 seconds.
[06:00] <sgraham> these connections are for a SCADA system and they dont like 300ms of latency.
[06:03] <sgraham> duuuuude...uses inotify....thats bad ass...
[06:04] <sgraham> sarnold: ...thank you for doing my research,  In my country...This may mean i have to marry your sister (even if she is not very attractive)
[06:04] <sarnold> believe me, she isn't
[06:04] <sarnold> she's also my brother
[06:04] <sarnold> sorry
[06:04] <sarnold> try to act surprised though :)
[06:06] <sgraham> I will do my best.  You will have to also follow the customs of my country though in regards to brother in law duties...
[06:06] <sarnold> man I hope it's just limited to buying a beer or two at family gatherings
[06:07] <sgraham> no, also at jousting events, sword competitions and sailing regatas.
[06:09] <sarnold> hmm, sailing regattas, it's not all bad.
[06:09] <sgraham> so when will you be comming to visit?
[06:09] <sarnold> lets make it the summer time
[06:10] <sgraham> yes...there is lots of wine available in summer here. That is a good planning.
[06:10] <sarnold> awwww yisss
[06:11] <sgraham> I have videos by the way of virtual environment with fault_tolerant fail over router in working order. would you like to see....also how will you be ariving in my country Plane? boat?
[06:12] <sarnold> oh please :)
[06:12] <sarnold> boat sounds good, might as well get ready for the regattas
[06:13] <sgraham> yes, good planning again.
[06:15] <sgraham> I will have to talk to officials and get papers in order for marriage to your sister....um...brother...ish? person?  Good news is this country is quite comfortable with these sorts of marriage.
[06:17] <sarnold> very progressive place
[06:17] <sgraham> yep
[06:17]  * ianorlin ended up thinking ecc gender but hope that will not offend non binary people
[06:18] <sgraham> We call it California.
[06:18] <sgraham> :-)
[06:19] <ianorlin> !loco
[06:19] <sarnold> sgraham: what a crazy name for such a country!
[06:19]  * ianorlin is one of three leaders for ubuntu california loco and hope to see you if you are at scale
[06:19] <sgraham> hahaha
[06:20] <sgraham> that joke works so much better when you ask "what the hell country do you live in!"
[06:20] <ianorlin> but that is more of a #ubuntu-us-ca question but you seem like a good person to have around
[06:21] <sarnold> ianorlin: nice, is brendan gregg doing another presentation there this go around? I've seen a few of his talks on youtube, well worth the time..
[06:21] <sgraham> seriously though...my wife said i cant get married anymore.  Also i have those videos (about an hour because they are pretty through.)
[06:22] <sgraham> tell you sister/brotherish person im sorry .
[06:23] <sarnold> oh I'm sure he'll understand, and, hpefully some day, move on with his life.
[06:24] <ianorlin> but I should get to bed as that conference starts tommorow for talks and yes 1pm on Sunday
[06:24] <ianorlin> sgraham: ^
[06:24] <sarnold> ianorlin: woo, have fun
[06:24] <sarnold> (talks on a sunday?? odd..)
[06:25] <sgraham> pegans they are everywhere now...godless worka holics...its amazing how much stuff they get done.
[06:25] <sgraham> and just with one extra day.
[06:26] <sgraham> sarnold: can you check something for me from the outside (you know...the world outside my network...like where the pizzaman lives?)
[06:26] <sarnold> hehe sure
[06:26] <sgraham> resume.booksnmore.com
[06:26] <sgraham> sorry
[06:26] <sarnold> "Index of /" -- auto-generated, but blank
[06:27] <sgraham> mthrfkr...you broke it.
[06:27] <sgraham> its using a ton of memory..its all jammed up...
[06:28] <sarnold> reload confirms, 503
[06:28] <sarnold> that one took a bit of time, not nearly as fast as the first one
[06:28] <sgraham> i rebooted it..
[06:28] <sgraham> actually i think its a werid router..issue.
[06:29] <sarnold> ahh
[06:29] <sarnold> "Index of /" again
[06:35] <sgraham> oooo crap..weird thing
[06:35] <sgraham> upgraded that server from 12.04 and it makes sub dir under www/html
[06:36] <sarnold> apache 2.2 -> 2.4 changed a fair bit; I spent days once piecing together fixes for some automated tests..
[06:47] <sgraham> http://resume.booksnmore.com/videos.php?selected_video=dual-backhaul-router-concept.webm
[06:47] <sgraham> sarnold: stick that crazy stuff in yo browser and watch it!
[06:47] <sarnold> hey! it works!
[06:48] <sgraham> fknaright...
[06:48] <sgraham> you use kvm at all?
[06:48] <sarnold> a bit; most of the hard work is done by scripts I don't understand around libvirt (which I also don't understand) :/
[06:49] <sgraham> libvirt is the digital voodoo that does the stuff...as far as im concerned.  Im vmware certified but i never use it because its two damnd expensive
[06:50] <sgraham> kvm works pretty damn good for something that is free.
[06:50] <sarnold> I thuoght esxi was free or something?
[06:50] <sgraham> ya..you can get really screwed around with building things that will eventually need...liscensing.
[06:51] <sarnold> I've thought breifly about trying to write my own wrappers around kvm; libvirt seems more annoying than it's worth, but..
[06:51] <sarnold> ahhhhh
[06:51] <sarnold> much like doing anything with oracle software. heh.
[06:52] <sgraham> Honestly ive seen vmware tank pretty frequently.  they dont support the free version of it nearly as much as the comunity suppors kvm...thats beside the point..
[06:52] <sgraham> i was just making sure you knew what was going on there with the virt environment.
[06:53] <sgraham> im going to look more into that upstart-file-bridge.  Thanks again man.
[06:54] <sarnold> my pleasure :) it's been fun
[06:55] <sgraham> yep, by the way i build custom appliances that do multi backhaul backends and openvpn concetrators.
[06:56] <sgraham> you ever need any work like that done give me a holler.....and if you need somebody to marry your homely sister...sorry wife says im taken.
[06:56] <sgraham> fault tolerant portion of that process is the next video on the list.
[06:57] <sarnold> heh, I've wondered what I'd do with my comcast connection if/when google fibre finally arrives.. would I want to keep it and dual-home? or be thrilled to be rid of comcast? :) heh
[07:00] <sgraham> most my clients would kill for a comcast connection.  I have it at my homeoffice (was one of the major deciding factors of buying this house) Critical apps up here need two sometimes as many as 4 potential connection types to be viable.
[07:01] <sgraham> snow, rain, rodents, crazy mountain people, fire, all sorts of "little com devils" to muck things up.
[07:01] <sarnold> don't get me wrong, if it weren't for comcast the next choice would be way worse.
[07:01] <sgraham> oh and mountains.
[07:01] <sgraham> trees...those get in the way alot
[07:02] <sgraham> ive put up my fair share of last mile wireless this year. Im buying stock in Ubiquty
[07:02] <sarnold> heh you're not kidding, you're a long way from anything :)
[07:03] <sgraham> sierra foothills.
[07:03] <sarnold> heh, I've got a ubiquity router 75% configured, just need that last push to install it and find out what I forgot..
[07:03] <sgraham> that stuffs amazing.
[07:04] <sgraham> i just did a business the other day..after i was done the diffeence was so obviouse somebody asked me.."dude are we gonna get brain cancer now from this?"
[07:04] <sarnold> haha
[07:05] <sgraham> I told them  i didnt know..because...well i honestly dont know .
[07:05] <sarnold> yeah; if it were vastly more powerful than advertised, well, maybe... but you figure that'd be discovered by someone sooner or later.
[07:07] <sgraham> I dont know..just from our history and typical complete missunderstanding of whats important...im assuming its all bad  (just because we really dont live long enough to care anyway)  The alien race that finds us are going to point and lol at our bones when they see what we have been doing.
[07:08] <sgraham> they are probably doing it now
[07:09] <sgraham> they are all like..."been there done that...like a trillon years ago...got the tshirt and the hat...aww snap!"
[07:09] <sarnold> hahahaha
[07:12] <sgraham> somewhere there is a meeting...(probably with like a much more advanced "hangouts"(or maybe just hangouts who knows)) and the conversation is like..."What was the deal with that blue planet again?...Oh ya earth..total waist of time..dont want to go there.  The have this method of time bartering based on paper...made from trees...and they are almost out of trees. They are not very bright."
[07:13] <sarnold> "mostly harmless"
[07:14] <sgraham> ya exactly...dude i literally pulled over got out of my car and cried when that dude died.
[07:15] <sarnold> certainly a hoopy frood who knew where his towel was.
[07:16] <sgraham> Yep, i carry one with me on my mobile office.
[07:16] <sgraham> i show you my mobile office?
[07:16] <sarnold> not yet
[07:17] <sgraham> damn it mv4 format...let me convert that
[07:18] <sgraham> so what do you do?
[07:19] <sarnold> I work on the ubuntu security team
[07:19] <sgraham> I was a stripper to pay my way through colledge.
[07:19] <sgraham> never did get my degree.
[07:20] <sgraham> kept getting hired and couldnt seem to concentrate on the bookwork.
[07:20] <sgraham> you get paid to work for ubuntu?
[07:20] <sarnold> sgraham: yeah
[07:20] <sgraham> sound like a pretty cool gig...ssssh...dont tell anybody
[07:21] <sarnold> it -is- a cool gig :) work from home, great co-workers, great users, lots of fun things to learn
[07:21] <sgraham> dude ill bet you get all kinds of cool programs for free!!
[07:22] <sarnold> hehe yeah :)
[07:22] <sgraham> kinda like....us..
[07:22] <sgraham> hehehe
[07:22] <sarnold> it's easy to get spoiled with tens of thousands of programs just an "apt-get install" away
[07:26] <sgraham> http://resume.booksnmore.com/videos/new_mobile_office.webm
[07:27] <sgraham> i just picked up a new toughbook...(well i mean not new but cf-29)
[07:28] <sgraham> I would up with 2 of those bikes
[07:29] <sgraham> you ever in the area give me a holler i have access to over 50 miles of private road.
[07:30] <sarnold> haha, the towel makes a ton of sense :)
[07:30] <sarnold> you might get wet in your office :)
[07:30] <sarnold> 50 miles of private road through those mountains. lovely.
[07:30] <sgraham> ya. this time of year i have to deal with snow..lots of mud
[07:31] <sarnold> its not all summer days like the video?
[07:31] <sgraham> no.
[07:31] <sgraham> we loose com on equipment i have to get to it quick.
[07:32] <sgraham> sometimes No road left. have to get creative
[07:32] <sgraham> its a pretty cool job..other days...im just changing out printer cartridges.
[07:33] <sarnold> printers. ugh.
[07:33] <sgraham> wishing something else would be wrong.
[07:34] <sgraham> oooh crap...so dude...when the hell am i going to be able to get a phone out of you guys?
[07:34] <sgraham> i want an ubuntu phone so bad...
[07:35] <sarnold> if you grab an old nexus 4 off ebay you can flash that now, though I understand the Real Things from BQ and Meizu are nicer and have more stuff -- I haven't seen one of those yet myself
[07:35] <sarnold> well, "nicer" -- I think the BQ and Meizu  units may be roughly comparable to the nexus 4 specs, but the ubuntu experience on them should be better.
[07:36] <sgraham> i got 4 galaxy .....alphas (just did a switch out to verizon from att for municipality)
[07:39] <sgraham> I do this ride...about 700 miles of desert in death valley every year, i got to drag a damn panasonic toughbook with me the entire time cause i need a true linux os incase my customers have any issues
[07:40] <sgraham> i would really just prefer the linux phone...duuuu
[07:40] <sarnold> you'd probably still want to drag it along: there's a huge pile of funny things on the phone, you can't just apt-get install whatever you need..
[07:40] <sgraham> that toughbook takes up about a gallon of fuel space.
[07:41] <sarnold> and weighs enough to cost another gallon? :)
[07:42] <sgraham> its...probably 10 pounds..bike can take it..but the space is the issue
[07:42] <sgraham> and power..
[07:42] <sarnold> I think the ssh from the phone -may- work well enough that it might be alright if that's all you need; but it sure isn't a pocket-sized network swiss army knife
[07:42] <sgraham> i only get 7 hours with the thoughbook..phone ..hell i have charge cord for it.
[07:43] <sgraham> i can do a spice thing back to office but, there are some things (mostly network stream analysis) i would like to run right from a vpn into a concentrator.
[07:44] <sgraham> actually i could do that from the spice connection as well...its just another hop and connectivity to have to worry about
[07:44] <sarnold> *nod* the fewer the moving parts, the better..
[07:45] <sgraham> yep one less node to worry about
[07:46] <sgraham> this year i got the wife a new wrangler. Im gonna have her haull all the com stuff i might need. Ill meet up with her and just check in on alarms
[07:47] <sgraham> ubuntu...where you work from US?
[07:47] <sarnold> sgraham: portland, or
[07:48] <sgraham> ahh ...land of no sun
[07:48] <sgraham> good beer though
[07:48] <sgraham> you need miserable light and shitty watter to make good beer i think
[07:49] <sarnold> why yes we've had weeks of rain how'd you know? :)
[07:50] <sgraham> i remember alot of banana slugs..and just general rotting wet stuff up there...until the city then...wet concreet and drunks.
[07:50] <sarnold> the water's friggen delicious though, the only better water I've had came from a glacier-fed spring after a ten mile hike, so it's not exactly accessible.. :)
[07:50] <sgraham> kinda the same thing really
[07:51] <sgraham> weeks of rain...bastards ...took it from us dint ya!
[07:51] <sarnold> we've still got the slugs but .. it seems like there were more of them twenty years back. maybe I'm just accustomed to them now, but it seemed like they used to be more prominent. :)
[07:52] <sarnold> hey not me you've got the wrong guy see!
[07:52] <sarnold> we didn't touch your rain honest mister
[07:52] <sarnold> this is the same rain we've always had, ask anyone!
[07:52] <sgraham> well our watter went somewhere else. and thats all the info we have, Im blaiming anyone else who has more than us...thats just logic man.
[07:53] <shauno> ireland here.  willing to donate rain!  (buyer collects)
[07:54] <sarnold> honestly you can have some of it, the other day we had enough that my basement was soggy. I spent the whole day with a shop vac...
[07:54] <sarnold> $600 worth of pumps later and a few impromptu holes in my backyard and things are looking bette.r.
[07:54] <sarnold> shauno: heh :)
[07:55] <sgraham> Took a trip up there when i was a kid...i remember asking my dad.."when does it STOP raining?"  He told me,  These poor bastards forget what the sun looks like. Look at them..they have the same color as tuna! One day we will find they have all turned to fish."
[07:56] <sarnold> sgraham: and yet, we've got a -huge- amount of skin cancer. when we -do- get sunny days we stand outside, facing the sun, eyes closed.
[07:57] <sarnold> we've got no melanin so it really packs a wallop
[07:57] <sarnold> and no sense to stay in the shade
[07:57] <sgraham> I had a girlfriend from canada...she use to literally HIDE from the sun.  she told me one day.  "We dont have that thing(the sun) where i come from...it causes cancer you best stay in doors when it is about"
[07:57] <sarnold> see? canadians are smart.
[07:58] <sgraham> yep...she got ride of me
[07:58] <sgraham> proof
[07:59] <sarnold> hehe
[08:00] <sgraham> damn..pumpkinOclock
[08:00] <sarnold> man when'd that happen...
[08:01] <sgraham> time sucks...its just the universes way of keeping us all in its pocket..
[08:01] <sgraham> its the curency with actual backing
[08:02] <sarnold> and there's never enough of it..
[08:03] <sgraham> the universe figured out if it could keep everything from happening all at once they could get monopolisze on life ...and marketing it as a good thing.
[08:04] <sgraham> like camel cigs..and cokeacola.
[08:04] <sarnold> haah
[10:32] <zbouby15> hi all
[10:33] <zbouby15> i'm trying to install a SFTP with HA/load balancing features, could you please give me your thoughts regarding my LAB ==> http://postimg.org/image/3rtwxt15h/ ?
[11:23] <roaksoax> win 13
[11:27] <adun153> Hi, need some Apache2 help. I have this "<VirtualHost <IP_ADDRESS>:35357>", but for some reason, Apache keeps on listening on ALL interfaces, not just on the interface that <IP_ADDRESS> is assigned to. What am I doing wrong?
[11:28] <hateball> adun153: and it's listening on 35357 on all interfaces?
[11:28] <adun153> yes
[11:29] <adun153> hateball: yes
[11:29] <rbasak> adun153: iirc, you need a Listen directive outside for the VirtualHosts to tell Apache what to listen on.
[11:29] <hateball> Yep
[11:29] <adun153> I tried adding "Listen <IP_ADDRESS>:35357" in /etc/apache2/ports.conf
[11:29] <rbasak> The virtualhosts definitions are a subset of that so that apache knows where to expect each virtualhost (in case you're serving HTTPS without SNI, for example)
[11:30] <adun153> Apache2 couldn't start up, stating that there already was something listening on <IP_ADDRESS>:35357
[11:30] <hateball> This is pretty clear https://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/examples.html
[11:30] <rbasak> Use netstat to figure that out.
[11:30] <hateball> adun153: What does your NameVirtualHost look like?
[11:32] <adun153> hateball: In which file should that be located?
[11:32] <adun153> Same as the site config file?
[11:33] <laskdj> hi
[11:35] <hateball> adun153: I linked you from the official docs
[11:36] <hateball> But yes, it should be in the website in question
[11:36] <adun153> Ah, I get it now
[11:36] <adun153> Yes
[11:36] <adun153> Thanks, I guess I just needed someone to help me bounce off ideas, I'm pretty frazzled at this point
[11:36] <adun153> I had "Listen 35357" on top
[11:37] <adun153> I just changed it to "Listen <IP_ADDRESS>:35357", and that seemed to fix it.
[11:37] <adun153> :D
[13:10] <coreycb`> jamespage, hey, can you sponsor this? https://code.launchpad.net/~corey.bryant/ubuntu/trusty/oslo.messaging/lp1318721/+merge/283304
[13:30] <jamespage> coreycb`, done
[13:30] <coreycb`> jamespage, thanks
[17:23] <Azaril> hello
[17:23] <Azaril> im getting this weird error
[17:23] <Azaril> https://gist.github.com/benjfield/4adcf48620da1a8e87ec
[17:25] <Synx_hm> Having some issues installing openstack (openstack-install) it keeps stalling with 'kvm container creation failed: exit status 1' i dont see anything relevant in commands.log. Ubuntu 14.04.3 LTS on 3.19.0-47-generic (this is run on ESXi host with guest cpu virtualizaion extensions enabled)
[17:25] <Synx_hm> same issues with both ppa:cloud-install/stable and experimental
[17:25] <Waheedi> now i have gcc (Ubuntu 4.8.1-2ubuntu1~12.04) 4.8.1 i want to upgrade to gcc 4.8.2
[17:25] <Waheedi> I was on gcc 4.6 :)
[17:27] <sgraham> this may be a stupid question...but..ok stupid.
[17:28] <sgraham> i created an upstart job and it seems to be working just fine, problem is, there are two of these process running now.  Does not seem to cause any issues..but im just trying to figure out if that is normal
[17:29] <sgraham> the upstart job is for a fault_tolerant_router
[17:33] <Waheedi> are you sure its not one process forking something else sgraham?
[17:34] <Waheedi> how can I use this library in presice? http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/gcc-4.8-base
[17:35] <Waheedi> i think that is not possible
[17:35] <Waheedi> i have to upgrade to 14.04
[17:48] <Azaril> anyone got any ideas on https://gist.github.com/benjfield/4adcf48620da1a8e87ec?
[17:49] <dasjoe> Azaril: is this in a VM? See https://bugs.launchpad.net/qemu/+bug/1336794
[17:50] <Azaril> yes
[17:51] <Azaril> not sure i have 9pfs though
[17:54] <fuzzywuzzy> What are people using for a KVM GUI?
[18:03] <pmatulis> fuzzywuzzy: virt manager
[18:08] <fuzzywuzzy> Anyone tried ovirt?
[18:08] <fuzzywuzzy> I think its still alpha
[18:08] <fuzzywuzzy> much more feature rich
[18:11] <fuzzywuzzy> I don't want to use XEN because you have to manually load patches
[18:12] <fuzzywuzzy> and the crappy Win32 interface requirement
[18:51] <sgraham> you guys ever had an upstart job that causes the system to hang on shutdown?
[18:53] <sgraham> by the way kyle i diabled you email on your phone yesterday (forgot to tell you about that) Im still trying to figure out why it is behaving the way it is.
[18:53] <sgraham> oops wrongwindow
[21:20] <blizzow> How do I select UTC as the timezone during a server install? The 15.x installs seem to restrict me to a country based timezone.
[21:39] <RoyK> blizzow: choose Iceland ;)
[21:41] <RoyK> blizzow: or just run dpkg-reconfigure tzdata, choose Etc and then UTC, after installing
[21:41] <RoyK> blizzow: but Iceland just uses UTC as it is, no summertime or nothing
[21:45] <blizzow> Still sucks that it UTC was removed from the choices during installation. :/
[21:46] <RoyK> blizzow: no idea why. I don't use ubuntu for servers anymore. I just stick around here by old habit
[23:56] <jonah> Hi I hope someone can please help. My postfix doesn't seem to stay loaded. I can start it and it says OK but then it quits itself. Can anyone help. I also get this error in the syslog: arning: /usr/lib/postfix/smtpd: bad command startup
[23:58] <sarnold> are there any postfix-specific logs in e.g. /var/log/postfix or /var/log/upstart/postfix* ?