[00:01] <hedkandi> hi
[00:01] <hedkandi> folks, you know you write like gcc -lsomething main.o -o out
[00:02] <hedkandi> well why doesn't it like it when I write
[00:02] <hedkandi> gcc -llibsome.so main.o ?
[00:20] <cjwatson> hedkandi: why do you want to use -llibsome.so rather than -lsome? the latter is the standard and correct form
[00:21] <cjwatson> hedkandi: it'll work without -o, it'll just write to a file called 'a.out' rather than any other default you might have wanted
[00:25] <hedkandi> cjwatson: if you write -lsome it'll go and find libsome.a which is not what I want
[00:27] <cjwatson> hedkandi: the ld manual page states that on ELF systems ld will search for libsome.so before libsome.a (and indeed this matches all my experience), so if it finds libsome.a that's only because it's the best it can do
[00:37] <hedkandi> ooh
[00:37] <hedkandi> cjwatson: I read the gcc man page, and that's what it says
[00:38] <hedkandi> here it is:
[00:38] <bluefoxicy> Every 2.0s: ls /tmp/user/1000/ -l                       Mon Nov 23 19:38:28 2009
[00:38] <hedkandi> The linker searches a standard list of directories for the library,
[00:38] <hedkandi>            which is actually a file named liblibrary.a.
[00:38] <bluefoxicy> hey guys I just realized
[00:38] <hedkandi> so that's WRONG!
[00:38] <bluefoxicy> I've been using pam-tmpdir for like, 2 or 3 releases
[00:39] <bluefoxicy> how about setting this shit up by default?  Huh?
[00:39] <bluefoxicy> or is this gonna be a whiny "IT MIGHT BREAK SOMETHING" argument (because yeah, some stuff will probably scream) like everyone normal in the world?
[00:40] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: if you can't be polite, please leave
[00:40] <cjwatson> hedkandi: yes, it does seem to be an incomplete description of reality
[00:40] <cjwatson> hedkandi: (perhaps because this varies a lot between platforms)
[00:40] <tsimpson> hedkandi: read the ld manual
[00:41] <hedkandi> it's RUBBISH!!
[00:41] <hedkandi> typical GNU
[00:41] <tsimpson> the gcc is not the linker, it just calls the linker for you
[00:41] <cjwatson> hedkandi: same admonition about politeness goes for you
[00:41] <maco> wow there's a big lack of polite here. do i need to hand out cookies?
[00:41] <hedkandi> I'll leave soon
[00:41] <hedkandi> cheerio
[00:43] <greg-g> maco: if I say something impolite, may I have a cookie?
[00:43] <maco> hahah you can have a cookie anyway
[00:43] <greg-g> :)
[00:43]  * maco gives greg-g a cookie
[00:44] <maco> its more of "if i give you cookies, will you play nice?"
[00:44]  * greg-g takes his cookie and ignores the rules
[00:47] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: personally I think libpam-tmpdir would be a good idea, and I suggest that you suggest it to the Ubuntu security team in a less hostile way so that it doesn't just put them off wanting to deal with it
[00:49] <bluefoxicy> cjwatson:  I've done so in other cases before, in other contexts, on other distros, ages ago.  I've learned to just skip to the end and see if anyone actually comments meaningfully.
[00:49] <ebroder> Wait, cjwatson, are you looking for http://debathena.mit.edu/pam_mktemp/ ?
[00:50] <bluefoxicy> But at any rate, what's the proper contact for that
[00:50] <bluefoxicy> mailing list or bugfile?
[00:51] <cjwatson> ebroder: I'm referring to the libpam-tmpdir package in Ubuntu
[00:51] <ebroder> Oh, hmm - I wasn't aware of that
[00:51] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: I'm personally not inclined to give preferential treatment to people who turn up and swear at us; maybe others are more masochistic
[00:52] <cjwatson> bluefoxicy: at this time of night I don't know the contact address offhand, although I can't imagine it would take long to find ...
[00:52] <bluefoxicy> alright.
[00:52] <bluefoxicy> mailing list then.   Patches welcome"
[05:01] <Amaranth> mneptok: I'll put that on my TODO list right after "rewrite compiz plugin loader"
[05:01] <StevenK> mneptok: Tell me it doesn't do the silly thing and use - as a seperator?
[05:02] <mneptok> StevenK: hear that a lot these days at home, eh? aren't new relationships *awesome*?  :P
[05:02] <mneptok> StevenK: the channel name uses it. apparently that causes some sort of mental breakdown.
[05:03] <Amaranth> StevenK: Channel specific factoids are specified like !foo-#channel
[05:03] <mneptok> anyone have a katana, firearm, or martial arts training and that knows where Supybot core devs live can make some money.
[05:04] <StevenK> Amaranth: Which is silly, yes
[05:04] <Amaranth> mneptok: If you pay for transportation I'm game
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:03] <pitti> Good morning
[08:06] <dholbach> hi pitti, mvo, MacSlow
[08:08] <MacSlow> hey pitti, dholbach, mvo
[08:08] <\sh> moins
[08:08] <mvo> hey dholbach, MacSlow, pitti
[08:09] <micahg> hi \sh
[08:09] <micahg> ZF is about to release 1.9.6
[08:09] <micahg> what would you like me to do for it?
[08:09] <dholbach> hi \sh
[08:11] <\sh> micahg, when 1.9.6 hits lucid, please do some backports on the ppa and file a bug for a backport and inform scottk that it works (builds) and that he could push the backports from lucid to any release downto hardy
[08:11] <micahg> \sh: should I file a separate bug for each backport, or one massive one with 4 tasks?
[08:11] <\sh> micahg, and did you have a look on the dojo packages I created? (forget the packagenaming right now ;))
[08:12] <micahg> \sh: will you be uploading to lucid?
[08:12] <micahg> \sh: not yet
[08:12] <\sh> micahg, I think a massive one with 4 task should be ok...I really don't know how the backport team is handling those requests
[08:12] <\sh> hey dholbach
[08:13] <\sh> micahg, yepp...
[08:13] <\sh> (for upload to lucid)
[08:14] <micahg> ok \sh, I'll watch for it, do you want me to ping you when they release?
[08:14] <\sh> micahg, I'm following zend :)
[08:14] <micahg> ok
[10:36] <otacon> hi
[10:44] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I have a rough "bzr commit" plugin now ;)
[10:44] <Keybuk> if you have changed ChangeLog, the new lines are put into the commit log
[10:48] <otacon> I'm using linux from late 2007, and i love it. I have a base knowledge of linux, security and networks. I know VBA, BASH scripting, PHP, CSS,and I'm learning python right now. I want to work with linux, but don't know where to turn. I hope someone here can have some suggestion for me. What I must learn, which language is better to learn?
[10:53] <otacon> no one have some suggestion about what must learn a novice developer?
[10:57] <lifeless> mvo: care to merge/deploy my deprecation fix for conflict checker?
[10:58] <mvo> lifeless: I can do that, has sbeattie not gotten write access to this as well?
[10:58] <lifeless> mvo: EDUNNO
[10:59] <mvo> ok
[11:27] <mpt_> amitk, hi, I have a question about the kernel's handling of batteries. Are you a good person to ask?
[11:28] <mpt_> or perhaps apw
[11:29] <apw> come chat to us on #u-kernel
[11:31] <mpt_> ok
[11:51] <dholbach> asac: in thunderbird3.0 is there a way to open tabs with special folders (like starred messages) or can I just open messages in tabs?
[11:51] <dholbach> asac: if not, can I create a special folder for "show me all starred messages"?
[11:55] <seb128> dholbach, traitor ;-)
[11:56] <dholbach> seb128: I still have it running on the laptop - I just wanted to try it out on the desktop because evolution decided to forget about all my preferences/accounts, etc.
[11:56] <seb128> ok
[11:57] <seb128> you can use gconftool --dump /apps/evolution and --load to copy the config if you want
[11:57] <seb128> between the laptop and desktop I mean
[11:57] <asac> dholbach: that works
[11:57] <asac> dholbach: right click ... open new tab
[11:57] <asac> doesnt work?
[11:58] <dholbach> asac: doesn't work - where should I right-click?
[11:58] <asac> on the folder
[11:58] <Keybuk> seb128: not forgetting to copy the .evolution folder too ;-)
[11:58] <seb128> Keybuk, I doubt that one got erased
[11:59] <dholbach> asac: which one? any of them?
[11:59] <seb128> Keybuk, seems dholbach is having gconf config issues, not the first time he got the gconf keys wiped out
[11:59] <Keybuk> seb128: right, but there's a few folder names in there that have to match gconf, etc.
[11:59] <asac> dholbach: err... not sure whta you mean.
[11:59] <asac> dholbach: i can do that for all folders displayed
[11:59] <dholbach> asac: which one should I right-click?
[11:59] <asac> like for my gmail: "starred" works
[11:59] <dholbach> asac: ah ok, so I need to find a way to create that starred virtual folder, then right click it - gotcha
[12:01] <asac> hmm... maybe that exists just because its gmail here
[12:01] <asac> :/
[12:01] <Chipzz> Keybuk: topic got truncated
[12:02] <dholbach> asac: can you create virtual folders or something?
[12:02] <asac> i thought that was possible in the past :/
[12:03] <asac> cant remember out of my head how that was done though
[12:03] <asac> dholbach: join #ubuntu-mozillateam ... i will ping a tbird dev there
[12:04] <dholbach> thanks asac
[12:05] <Keybuk> Chipzz: x-chat thinks that's the longest it can go
[12:05] <pitti> apw: so, for apport's "failed to resume" detection, I guess it uses /var/lib/pm-utils/status? how is the apport report created then? I don't see a sleep.d script in pm-utils which would call apportcheckresume?
[12:05] <Keybuk> Chipzz: in fact, from the log, that's all the topic there was ;)
[12:08] <apw> pitti, in the apport startup script we check for status and report then, so its a boot check
[12:09] <pitti> apw: ah, I see; thanks
[12:09] <pitti> apw: I think I'll move the "record status" portion of 000record to apport proper then
[12:09] <pitti> apw: I committed the "inhibit hibernate" portion to debian's pm-utils now
[12:09] <apw> pitti, thanks for that
[12:16] <pitti> apw: do you know what creates /var/lib/pm-utils/resume-hang.log ?
[12:17] <pitti> nevermind, found it
[12:17] <apw> pitti, .. cool
[12:19] <pitti> apw: FYI, I move the logs/stamps to /var/run/pm-utils
[12:19] <pitti> so that they get cleaned up properly on boot
[12:20] <pitti> if that's okay with you?
[12:21] <apw> pitti, the location was chosen somewhat arbitrarily ... i am comfortable for them to move ... but, they need to be checked during boot before /var/run gets zapped ...
[12:21] <pitti> oh, right
[12:21] <pitti> nevermind, leaving as it is then
[12:21] <apw> if /var/run gets moved to ramfs we are in the poop
[12:27] <Keybuk> apw: moved to?  /var/run *is* a tmpfs
[12:27] <apw> Keybuk, heh then we would be in the poop :)
[12:29] <Keybuk> I don't follow
[12:30] <apw> Keybuk, i mean if pitti hadn't already decided moving those files there would be bad, then we'd be doing the wrong thing
[12:32] <Keybuk> these files need to survive a reboot?
[12:32] <pitti> I think the use case is "suspend, fails, reboot, collect the error"
[12:32] <pitti> so, yes
[12:32] <Keybuk> right
[12:33] <Keybuk> then /var/run is very definitely not the right place for them <g>
[12:33] <Keybuk> FHS-wise, /var/cache or /var/lib would be right
[12:33] <Keybuk> you could probably even argue for /var/spool
[12:33] <pitti> we are using /var/lib/pm-utils/ now, and clean it up in apport's upstart job after checking
[12:34] <pitti> s/now//
[12:34] <Keybuk> ok
[12:37] <bluefoxicy> ugh
[12:37] <bluefoxicy> can't suspend.
[12:37]  * bluefoxicy dd's a 2 gig swap file and tries.
[12:39] <bluefoxicy> huh that didn't work...
[14:00] <smoser> slangasek, can you let me know what you run to publish an image on nectarine ? ie, take a nightly and make it a "release"
[14:02] <soren> Riddell: Could you sync libcloud from unstable, please?
[14:02] <smoser> i'm guessing : cdimage/bin/publish-release but i'm not sure.
[14:04] <Riddell> soren: what's your LP id?
[14:05]  * Riddell takes a guess at soren
[14:09] <soren> Riddell: It is indeed.
[14:12] <Riddell> done
[14:12]  * soren hugs Riddell
[14:21] <pitti> hey mathiaz
[14:21] <pitti> mathiaz: WDYT about the current karmic-proposed eucalyptus? Most bugs got verified, so in sum it got quite a large number of verification results now
[14:22] <mathiaz> pitti: IIUC there are two bugs left for verification
[14:22] <mathiaz> pitti: I'd like to perform a quick review of them
[14:22] <pitti> mathiaz: ack
[14:22] <mathiaz> pitti: and let you know what to do after that
[14:22] <pitti> thanks
[14:22] <mathiaz> pitti: do you have the two bugs left to be verified?
[14:23] <pitti> mathiaz: bug  #454405 and bug #458163
[14:23] <mathiaz> kirkland: could you verify/review/comment on bug 458163?
[14:24] <kirkland> mathiaz: sure ...
[14:24] <mathiaz> pitti: for bug 458163 I trust upstream for the fix
[14:25] <mathiaz> pitti: so once kirkland acked bug  458163, I think the eucalyptus sru is good to go to -updates
[14:25] <pitti> mathiaz: NB that it is not a real problem if the version does not actually/fully fix a bug
[14:25] <pitti> mathiaz: then we can just reopen it
[14:25] <pitti> mathiaz: however, it must not cause any regressions
[14:25]  * mathiaz nods
[14:25] <pitti> great, so I'll wait for kirkland's ping
[14:25] <pitti> kirkland: cheers
[14:26] <mathiaz> pitti: both ttx and I have tested the sru
[14:29] <kirkland> mathiaz: pitti: I don't currently have a UEC setup
[14:29] <kirkland> mathiaz: pitti: I'll need to install from scratch
[14:29] <kirkland> this will take a while
[14:29] <pitti> kirkland: btw, thanks for your kvm lightning talk; very impressive!
[14:30] <pitti> during that week I learned about the hot add/removal of block devices, qcow2 (both used myself), and the live migration (didn't use that, but is utterly cool!)
[14:31] <kirkland> pitti: you actually inspired that talk :-)
[14:33] <superm1> pwnguin, i dont see why noueveau would support resolutions better than nv.  they're still queried via the EDID for both scenarios
[14:34] <kirkland> pitti: it was this comment by you that made me realize that there are some very knowledgeable people using kvm, but not knowing some of the advanced features:
[14:34] <kirkland> Jul 22 14:33:57 <pitti> seb128: I just learned about "virtio" kvm drives, which are apparenlty go-faster stripes
[14:34] <kirkland> :-)
[14:35] <pitti> yeah, that rocks
[14:35] <kirkland> pitti: i just committed a fix to rootskel yesterday that should make kvm -curses work on ubuntu alternate and server cd's too
[14:35] <kirkland> pitti: which means that we can test server installs in a terminal more easily
[14:36] <pitti> oh, what did you change?
[14:38] <soren> kirkland: Err...
[14:38] <soren> kirkland: How do you expect to test the framebuffer stuff in kvm with this change?
[14:38] <kirkland> pitti: not modprobing the fbcon if running on QEMU cpu's
[14:38] <kirkland> soren: on real hardware
[14:39] <soren> kirkland: How do you expect to test the framebuffer stuff *in kvm* with this change?
[14:39] <kirkland> soren: i do not; i expect to test that on real hardware
[14:40] <soren> I see.
[14:43] <soren> Maybe I'm just being an old curmudgeon here, but I'm not sure I agree that deliberately limiting the amount of bugs we can catch by testing in a VM is a plan filled with awesome.
[14:50] <kirkland> soren: so i could agree that we should allow for an override, like fb=1 or fb=true on the ISO command line
[14:50] <kirkland> soren: but is there any situation (besides testing) where it makes sense to have a kvm running with its console in a much slower framebuffer?
[14:50] <soren> The fact that it's slower is a bug.
[14:51] <soren> kvm is mindbogglingly fast.
[14:51] <soren> QEmu (without kvm) seems to have better fb performance.
[14:51] <soren> I've no clue why this is, though.
[14:57] <soren> kirkland: Is there any reason (besides running kvm on the console) where it's necessary to run without the framebuffer?
[14:58] <kirkland> soren: a) it's amazingly faster, more responsive, reduces install time significantly
[14:58] <kirkland> soren: b) makes it possible to use -curses, do an install through vanilla kvm directly on a remote server in a shell
[14:59] <kirkland> soren: which makes it possible to log the entire session too, copy, paste, etc.
[14:59] <kirkland> soren: so what about my question?
 soren: but is there any situation (besides testing) where it makes sense to have a kvm running with its console in a much slower framebuffer?
[14:59] <soren> How do you log the installer's ncurses stuff?
[15:00] <soren> 15:50:51 < soren> The fact that it's slower is a bug.
[15:00] <kirkland> soren: screen
[15:00] <soren> kirkland: I think it would be much cooler to fix that bug.
[15:00] <kirkland> soren: that's not an answer to my question ...  in what situation (besides testing) do you *want* a kvm running in fbcon?
[15:00] <kirkland> soren: patches accepted
[15:01] <kirkland> soren: i just launched qemu without kvm, and i don't see where it's any faster in the fb
[15:01] <kirkland> soren: are you sure this is the case?  can you take a screen cast of the two and time them?
[15:01] <soren> I want to run it in an fbcon by default so that I don't have to sit down and actively decide to do testing before I spot a particular class of bugs.
[15:02] <soren> kirkland: Probably.
[15:02] <kirkland> soren: the class of bugs being ... ?
[15:02]  * soren has to run for 10 minutes.
[15:02] <tseliot> pitti: isn't there a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now?
[15:02] <soren> kirkland: Stuff that relates to the framebuffer, maybe?
[15:02] <pitti> tseliot: I don't know
[15:02] <kirkland> soren: right;  i haven't see a lot of such bugs
[15:03] <tseliot> pitti: didn't you send an email to the motu-council mailing list about it?
[15:03] <Keybuk> mdz, pitti, cjwatson, sabdfl: DMB meeting?
[15:03] <pitti> oh, f****
[15:03] <pitti> I forgot
[15:03]  * pitti joins
[15:03] <tseliot> :-)
[15:31] <soren> kirkland: That's a very poor reason for not testing something.
[15:32] <soren> kirkland: Anyhow, if you just add a way for me to enable it back, I don't have the curmurdgeonry to argue about this for hours, so meh.
[15:35] <dmart> NCommander: dmart, I think the CS conditional code isn't being allowed in the block, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to work around that:  Building with v7+thumb2, you're effectively telling the assembler to pretend that that (ARM) inline assembler is unified assembler source (this is the new syntax that can be assembler to ARM and Thumb)
[15:36] <dmart> ...however, it is actually the old ARM syntax, to it doesn't contains the IT block annotations needed for Thumb-2.
[15:36] <dmart> gcc -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb asks the assembler to guess what the IT blocks should have been instead of barfing
[15:36] <dmart> argh, wrong tab
[15:52] <asac> dmart: thanks. so you think that implicit-it=thumb might help for pulse? (guess thats what its about)
[15:52] <ogra> asac, -marm helps
[15:52] <ogra> (which truns off thumb2 ...)
[15:53] <dmart> asac, ogra: yes and yes.  There are 3 fixes
[15:53] <ogra> implicit-it=thumb should be the default in the toolchain by now
[15:53] <dmart> 1) -marm
[15:53] <dmart> 2) -mimplicit-it=thumb
[15:53] <asac> right. but if implicit-kit helps i would think thats preferable?
[15:53] <asac> hmm
[15:53] <dmart> 3) Port the asm to add IT blocks (this is NCommander's current preference, but it may get loborious)
[15:53] <asac> ogra: since when?
[15:54] <dmart> doko was going to add it, but it may not be merged yet
[15:54] <ogra> my pulse build with -marm gets over the breakage here ...
[15:54] <ogra> asac recently ... not sure when exactly
[15:54] <asac> ok. i know that we had IT breakage in xulrunner just before UDS. so lets assume its not in yet.
[15:55] <dmart> I get a build by masquerading GCC to add -Wa,-mimplicit-it=thumb on the command line; though I haven't tested whether the result actually runs properly.  It _should_.
[15:55] <ogra> well, -marm definately helps in the pulse case ... but indeed we lose thumb2 for it then
[15:55] <asac> ogra: can you double check that implicit-it is used?
[15:55] <asac> otherwise i would think its the preferable attempt unless we really want to fix ASM on our own
[15:55] <dmart> -marm is my preference, since the asm may have been specifically optimised to run in ARM.  But generally people don't like to add per-file flags (unless they're there already)
[15:56] <asac> dmart: ok thanks for the input
[15:56] <ogra> well, in the case of pulse they are ...
[15:57] <pitti> dholbach: where do you usually send "new MOTU" announcements to?
[15:58]  * pitti thought about sending the DMB meeting notes to u-devel@
[15:58] <dholbach> pitti: to inform the councils that delegated their power to us, I send it to: dmb, cc
[15:58] <ogra> asac, seems IT isnt in he defaults yet
[15:58] <ogra> *the
[15:58] <pitti> dholbach: right, I already sent it to dmb, cc
[15:58] <dholbach> pitti: afterwards I send a quick heads-up to ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-devel as a welcome message
[15:59] <pitti> dholbach: right, thanks!
[15:59]  * dholbach hugs pitti
[15:59]  * pitti hugs dholback
[16:00] <dholbach> :-)
[16:30] <nxvl> oh noes! no james_w /o\
[16:30] <nxvl> dholbach: did you have any idea if a package will build if i just commit the branch?
[16:31] <dholbach> nxvl: I dunno if the infrastructure can do that already - #launchpad maybe? :)
[16:31] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure not yet.
[16:31] <nxvl> right, will ask there
[16:31] <nxvl> thanks
[16:31] <nxvl> ScottK: ok, will take that advice and be happy
[16:31] <nxvl> it's taking to long
[16:31] <nxvl> so i'm assuming not aswell
[16:58] <cjwatson> kirkland: it just occurred to me why it's a mindbogglingly bad idea to avoid the framebuffer by default in kvm; I'm sorry I didn't think about it earlier
[16:58] <rtg> can anyone tell me why 'apt-get build-dep linux' doesn't install makedumpfile? Is it because the Build-Depends line has whitespace in the architecture specification string, e.g., 'Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 3), cpio, module-init-tools, kernel-wedge (>= 2.24ubuntu1), makedumpfile [amd64 i386 lpia], device-tree-compiler [powerpc]'
[16:59] <cjwatson> kirkland: disabling the framebuffer limits d-i's language choice very substantially
[16:59] <cjwatson> kirkland: so since soren seems to think that this is a kvm bug that should be fixed, I'm afraid I would prefer that rootskel change to be reverted
[17:00] <cjwatson> kirkland: as I say, sorry I didn't think of this when you asked me in person at UDS
[17:07] <mvo> rtg: I don't think its this, it looks like its confused again over srcpkgname and binary package name
[17:07] <rtg> mvo, it gets everything else right
[17:08] <rtg> I mean, it install the other build dependencies
[17:10] <mvo> rtg: does it help if you pass "-o Apt::get::only-sources=1" ?
[17:11] <mvo> rtg: with that, I get the expected behaviour here in a chroot
[17:11] <rtg> mvo, testing, one sec.
[17:12]  * mvo just got called for dinner and will be back in a bit
[17:13] <rtg> mvo, 'apt-get -o Apt::get::only-sources=1 build-dep linux' isn't working for me (this is in a lucid chroot).
[17:22] <mvo> rtg: ok, thanks. let me update my chroot then
[17:23] <pitti> cjwatson: Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-desktop: package set 'ubuntu-desktop' in lucid
[17:23] <pitti> cjwatson: does that mean it's working already?
[17:24] <pitti> (looks like it)
[17:47] <cjwatson> pitti: yes, I did that last week after the TB meeting
[17:47] <cjwatson> pitti: sorry I didn't make the DMB meeting today, holidays and all that
[17:47] <pitti> yay
[17:47] <pitti> cjwatson: no prob, we had quorum
[17:47] <pitti> cjwatson: enjoy your holiday!
[18:05] <dscassel> KS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS
[18:08] <Tm_T> dscassel: ok
[18:08] <dscassel> Tm_T, some day, I will get the hang of this IRC thing...
[18:09] <dscassel> (That was half an /ignore)
[18:22] <hedkandi> yo!
[18:23] <hedkandi> has anyone ever used gnome_keyring item_get_info_sync
[18:23] <hedkandi> ?
[18:59] <pwnguin> superm1: i dont understand it either, but i can show you the bug avalanche if you want
[19:44] <soren> kirkland: fwiw, it's trivially easy to see the difference. Try booting a server or alternate ISO in kvm and compare the screen update rates in the installer to the update rate you get if you also pass -no-kvm. In spite of -no-kvm uses full emulation, screen updates are clearly faster.
[19:46] <kirkland> cjwatson: okay, thanks for the followup
[19:50] <kirkland> cjwatson: i think i recognized this when i asked you
[19:50] <kirkland> cjwatson: i suggested that i could additionally check if the user chose English in the bootloader language choice
[19:59] <florob> Hi, I was wondering where I would go to ask some questions about the indicator applet (python bindings specifically)
[20:00] <soren> kirkland: How do you deal with the gfxboot thing, by the way?
[20:02] <kirkland> soren: i just tap enter
[20:02] <soren> Ah.
[20:12] <kirkland> soren: cjwatson: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/327103/
[20:19] <zul> is there a programable way to change the whiteboard for a given spec?
[20:19] <zul> ie through launchpadlib?
[20:19] <pitti> zul: not right now; wget POST requests FTW :)
[20:20] <zul> pitti: argh! :)
[20:20] <ajmitch> zul: you need to clean the whiteboard for several specs?
[20:20] <zul> ajmitch: yep
[20:23] <ScottK> florob: #ayatana
[20:23] <florob> ScottK, at the risk of sounding confused. Why?
[20:24] <ScottK> florob: Because that's where the upstream for the indicator-applet is.
[20:24] <ScottK> It's sponsored also by Canonical, but developed as a separate project since it's for more than just Ubuntu.
[20:24] <florob> I have heard people claim otherwise ;) Anyway thank you
[20:25] <ScottK> I know the Qt/KDE version is in Gentoo already.
[20:28] <soren> kirkland: Ah. Fail :(
[20:29]  * soren calls it a day
[20:32] <kirkland> soren: i thought about triggering it on a really strange amount of memory
[20:32] <kirkland> soren: like 420MB of memory
[20:32] <kirkland> soren: if a guest has some magic number amount of memory, then don't modprobe fbcon
[20:34] <kirkland> soren: 409632 kB
[20:35] <kirkland> soren: or 251MB, since 251 in dec = FB in hex :-)
[20:54]  * Keybuk wishes "bzr shelve" had an "undo" option like listadmin
[20:54] <Keybuk> for when I get a bit too punch-happy on the "n" or "y" key
[20:56] <pitti> StevenK: moderating your "retirement of lpia"; please poke someone if you send to u-d-a@
[20:57] <ScottK> \o/
[20:59] <sebner> ScottK: I thought you like server stuff :P
[20:59] <ajmitch> no more lpia patches needed?
[20:59] <ScottK> sebner: I do.  That's pretty unrelated to the death of lpia though.
[20:59] <ScottK> ajmitch: Yep.
[21:00] <sebner> ScottK: the few the merrier ... hmm, wait - something's wrong *cough*
[21:49] <lifeless> lamont: reminder - add notes to bug 470265
[21:58] <ari-tczew> is gcc 4.5 comming as deault in lucid?
[22:00] <ajmitch> gcc 4.5 isn't even released yet, so I'd say that there's little chance of it being the default - the toolchain is pretty much settled in the first week or so of a release cycle
[22:01] <Keybuk> no chance
[22:01] <Keybuk> we nearly always fix our toolchain before the release is even started
[22:01] <Keybuk> simply because it's always gone horribly, horribly wrong when we try and change it ater
[22:01] <ajmitch> 'horribly, horribly wrong' aren't words you'd like to see together with LTS
[22:08] <kirkland> cjwatson: rootskel changes reverted
[22:08] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'm back to sed -i'ing *.iso :-(
[22:16] <wgrant> cjwatson: Hi. I hear you have a hardy dpkg backport that Soyuz needs. Which version is it?
[23:37] <cjwatson> kirkland: I did respond to that ... English in the bootloader choice is basically a no-op, we can't key on it
[23:38] <cjwatson> wgrant: dpkg_1.15.4ubuntu2~0.CAT.8.04
[23:42] <wgrant> cjwatson: Perfect, thanks. Is that a straight backport of Karmic's? I presume it's not available anywhere.
[23:44] <cjwatson> wgrant: straightish. http://paste.ubuntu.com/327212/ applied
[23:45] <wgrant> cjwatson: Aha. Thanks.


[07:54] <dholbach> good morning
[07:54] <Myrtti> moin ugt
[18:08]  * pavel_ почесался
[19:50] <TiMiDo> hey how long does it usually take to get the mail forward,?
[19:53] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuEmail
[19:53] <AlanBell> 2 days
[19:53] <TiMiDo> still no luck
[19:55] <TiMiDo> i can see the new email on launchpad, but any time i sent an email i get an error saying, that the email does not exist,
[19:55] <TiMiDo> it has to be only a gmail, account to forward, or it can be from yahoo also,?
[19:57] <AlanBell> can be to anything
[19:57] <TiMiDo> oh cool
[19:58] <TiMiDo> in launchpad i get this message an email was sent to you, for the setup, but still have not gotten any email, on setting up the mail forward,
[19:58] <AlanBell> but you can't send to it from the address it would send back to
[19:58] <TiMiDo> An e-mail message was sent to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>with instructions on how to confirm that it belongs to you.
[19:58] <AlanBell> no, don't do that
[19:59] <TiMiDo> Okay
[19:59] <AlanBell> primary mail on launchpad should be the other one
[19:59] <TiMiDo> right i know that,
[20:00] <TiMiDo> i'm not trying to put<EMAIL_ADDRESS>as my primary,
[20:00] <AlanBell> ok
[20:01] <TiMiDo> i just want to get it set up, so people can send mail to it,
[20:06] <TiMiDo> AlanBell, is there any one, i can speak with. that can help me further,
[20:08] <pleia2> you can send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>if it's not working
[20:09] <pleia2> but I can send a tet email to you if you want
[20:09] <TiMiDo> sure
 Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table (state 14).
[20:09] <pleia2> yup
[20:09] <pleia2> I'd submit a ticket to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[20:10] <TiMiDo> thank you,
[20:10] <pleia2> you became a member on the 19th, I'd think the addresses would be added by now
[20:11] <TiMiDo> Right,
[20:11] <TiMiDo> why was the email reject it though,?
[20:15] <pleia2> for some reason it hasn't been created in the system yet
[20:15] <TiMiDo> oh okey,


[09:57] <jester-> hi
[23:57] <LOJAC> where do i request a cloak?
[23:59] <bazhang> ubuntu member or freenode cloak?


[01:08] <test3r> hihi !.
[01:08] <test3r> !hardware compatability
[01:09] <test3r> !compatability
[01:09] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about compatability - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[01:11] <test3r> ive got an older eMachine that i want to know if it could run Xubuntu on
[01:12] <kalikiana> test3r, What are your specs?
[01:12] <test3r> its about a 1Ghrz descent amount of RAM i think
[01:12] <test3r> prob whatever vid card
[01:13] <test3r> 128 RAM , intel video Netgear LAN, "SoundMAX" audio
[01:13] <test3r> there those r the specs i wrote down
[01:13] <Merchelo> yeah, should do it
[01:13] <Merchelo> xubuntu needs a min 64megs to run once installed
[01:13] <test3r> sweet. i got 11+ gigs to work with so im thinking im going to use gParted
[01:14] <test3r> yeah ill use the alt insytall cd should take less
[01:14] <kalikiana> Sounds just fine, give it a try already :D
[01:14] <test3r> Right? hmmmmmm I would have to unhook This though
[01:14] <test3r> =(
[01:15] <test3r> well here goes nuthin
[01:16] <n0xie> i got a newbie question
[01:17] <n0xie> i've been playing around with xubuntu on my old laptop
[01:17] <Merchelo> newb away
[01:17] <n0xie> it has a ATI Technologies Inc Radeon Mobility M6 LY videocard
[01:17] <Merchelo> and you need drivers?
[01:18] <n0xie> well it's working sofar with standard ati drivers
[01:18] <n0xie> i just want to give beryl a go
[01:18] <n0xie> but i know ati is usually not the best way to start
[01:18] <n0xie> so should i even try or is it doomed to fail?
[01:18] <crdlb> actually old ati cards work really well with beryl
[01:18] <maxamillion> n0xie: beryl on an older machine?
[01:18] <crdlb> it's new ati cards that suck
[01:18] <n0xie> maxamillion: yes
[01:19] <crdlb> beryl/compiz runs fine on my M7
[01:19] <n0xie> crdlb: do you have any howto or faq where i could start?
[01:19] <crdlb> n0xie: #ubuntu-effects
[01:19] <maxamillion> n0xie: guess its worth a shot, i know if you had the nvidia drivers you could do it ... i know someone who ran beryl on an amd k6-2 333mhz with 192mb of ram because he had a nvidia mx4000 and the nvidia drivers know how to offset the work load correctly
[01:20] <n0xie> yeah this is a 1700 with 512 ram, so it's not the specs that worry me, more the fact that it's ati and a mobility
[01:20] <maxamillion> n0xie: http://wiki.beryl-project.org/wiki/Install_Beryl_on_Ubuntu
[01:20] <crdlb> the M6 (aka radeon 7000) is the oldest ati card
[01:20] <crdlb> that can run beryl
[01:20] <crdlb> no not that wiki please
[01:20] <maxamillion> why not?
[01:20] <crdlb> because it's terrible
[01:21] <n0xie> well there are so many contradictionary howto's and faqs
[01:21] <crdlb> there's a link in the topic of #ubuntu-effects
[01:21] <maxamillion> crdlb: beryl is terrible, what's your point?
[01:21] <crdlb> erm what?
[01:21] <maxamillion> nothing ... i just don't like beryl
[01:24] <n0xie> maxamillion: i'm just curious how it looks :)
[01:25] <maxamillion> n0xie: http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&gbv=2&q=beryl+screenshots&btnG=Search+Images
[01:25] <maxamillion> :)
[01:26] <n0xie> well it's different seeing a screenshot than actually using it ;)
[01:27] <maxamillion> 18:24 < n0xie> maxamillion: i'm just curious how it looks :)
[01:27] <maxamillion> ;)
[01:35] <null> how can i find out what default charset my distro is using?
[01:35] <shroomsky> hello
[01:35] <null> hi
[01:36] <maxamillion> hi
[01:36] <shroomsky> my firefox already has flash working but i cant seem to get it going with opera
[01:36] <maxamillion> shroomsky: different plugin for different browsers ... i don't use opera so i can't entirely help you with that one though :/
[01:37] <shroomsky> ok
[01:43] <ochosi> why would a usb-stick not be found in xubuntu 7.04? (lsusb doesn't show a thing)
[01:45] <maxamillion> ochosi: not all usb sticks are supported
[01:45] <ochosi> maxamillion: seriously?
[01:46] <n0xie> well gonna try to get this beryl business started->reboot
[01:46] <n0xie> wish me luch
[01:46] <ochosi> maxamillion: it's a "safestick" by "powerram", so a cheap one, i guess...
[01:46] <n0xie> err luck too
[01:46] <maxamillion> ochosi: yeah, different usb chipsets do different things ... :/
[01:47] <ochosi> maxamillion: that's really weird... it works in windoze, but not i xubuntu...
[01:47] <ochosi> maxamillion: so incompatibility is your last word? nothing we could probably do about it?
[01:48] <maxamillion> ochosi: no not last word, just first thought
[01:48] <ochosi> maxamillion: hihi, ok, i see ;)
[01:49] <maxamillion> ochosi: lemme check something
[01:50] <maxamillion> ochosi: can you pastebin the output of the command "lshal | grep usb"
[01:50] <ochosi> maxamillion: ok, one sec...
[01:54] <ochosi> sorry, seems to be difficult to find a workin pastebin
[01:54] <maxamillion> i gotta run, getting off work
[01:55] <maxamillion> !pastebin | ochosi
[01:55] <ubotu> ochosi: pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[01:55] <maxamillion> reall sorry, but i have to run
[01:56] <ochosi> http://pastebin.4programmers.net/2189
[01:56] <ochosi> http://pastebin.4programmers.net/2189
[01:57] <ochosi> anyone there who could have a look at that instead of maxamillion?
[02:00] <ochosi> oook.
[02:00] <ochosi> no worries
[02:00] <ochosi> will figure it out somehow
[04:35] <kiosk> anyone know of an image editor more lightweight than GIMP?
[04:35] <kiosk> that can save in many formats?
[04:38] <mlalkaka> hi everyone
[04:38] <j1mc> hi mlalkaka
[04:39] <mlalkaka> is it possible to install xubuntu from the ubuntu main installation cd or the alternate cd? if so, which one?
[04:44] <j1mc> mlalkaka: yes, although it's preferred to install from a xubuntu cd.  if those are your only options....
[04:44] <j1mc> you could use the alternate install cd to install the base ubuntu system . . .
[04:44] <j1mc> and then reboot to the command line . . .
[04:44] <j1mc> and enter "sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop"
[04:45] <j1mc> mlalkaka: does that help?
[04:45] <mlalkaka> j1mc: after doing that, how can i get rid of any unecessary ubuntu packages?
[04:47] <j1mc> mlalkaka: what do you mean?  could you explain further?
[04:48] <mlalkaka> j1mc: oh nvm. after reading your suggestion again, i noticed that you said "base ubuntu system". i originally thought you meant to do a full install of ubuntu, then install xubuntu-desktop.
[04:49] <mlalkaka> but if it's preferred to install from a xubuntu cd, then i'll just do that. it'll be simpler :-).
[04:49] <mlalkaka> out of curiosity, though, how do you install a base ubuntu system using one of the ubuntu cd's?
[04:49] <j1mc> mlalkaka: that is possible, too
[04:50] <j1mc> (it's possible to have both ubuntu and xubuntu installed...  )  as for your question about installing a base system...
[04:50] <j1mc> you'd use the alternate install cd...
[04:50] <j1mc> and select "install a command-line system."  (i think that's what it's called)
[04:51] <kiosk> what GUI comes with ubuntu?
[04:51] <j1mc> that would give you all of the core ubuntu components, but no graphical environment.
[04:51] <j1mc> kiosk: ubuntu comes with gnome
[04:51] <j1mc> xubuntu comes with xfce
[04:51] <kiosk> that is really the key difference between the two right?
[04:52] <KHatfull> Hi there...12 month Ubuntu user, just did first install of Xubuntu...all works great except when I try to start the terminal X gets blown and I go back to the GDM login...any ideas?
[04:52] <kiosk> and kubuntu is KDE . . .
[04:53] <mlalkaka> kiosk: that's right
[04:53] <j1mc> KHatfull: yes. i think i can help.
[04:53] <j1mc> KHatfull: is it a slightly older system?
[04:54] <j1mc> KHatfull: do you know where your xorg.conf file is located?
[04:54] <KHatfull> I just found it in the forums....24 -> 16 bit?
[04:55] <KHatfull> Oh yeah, I;ve had to manually configure a 1024x600 screen before :-(
[04:55] <j1mc> KHatfull: yes.
[04:55] <j1mc> 24->16
[04:55] <j1mc> that has helped a few people that i know...
[04:56] <mlalkaka> does NetworkManager work with xfce/xubuntu?
[04:56] <j1mc> mlalkaka: do you mean the gnome nm-applet?
[04:57] <j1mc> the little icon in the toolbar that lets you connect to wired and wireless networks?
[04:57] <mlalkaka> j1mc: oh yes that's what i meant? it's a gnome thing? is there a replacement for it in xubuntu?
[04:57] <KHatfull> wicd works good too
[04:57] <kiosk> I installed netmonitet-applet with apt get yesterday
[04:58] <kiosk> *netmoniter-applet
[04:58] <KHatfull> mlalkaka: search the forums for "wicd"....works great, doesn;t use Gnome libs
[04:58] <j1mc> mlalkaka: there isn't yet an xfce replacement ("airconfig" is in the works, but it wasn't ready for feisty).
[04:58] <j1mc> gnome's network manager applet (nm-applet) does work in xubuntu, though.
[04:58] <KHatfull> http://wicd.sourceforge.net/
[04:58] <j1mc> KHatfull: thanks for the tip.  i'll check that out.
[04:59] <KHatfull> 24 -> 16 worked here for terminal, thanks
[04:59] <mlalkaka> KHatfull, j1mc: thanks
[05:00] <j1mc> KHatfull: glad it worked.  :)
[05:01] <j1mc> mlalkaka: take it easy!
[05:01] <j1mc> good night, all.  i'm headed out.
[06:46] <BFTD> yo
[06:57] <BFTD> whats a good linux video format to use?
[07:09] <peepsalot> BFTD, see http://xiph.org/ for free software codecs
[07:09] <peepsalot> theora is the one for video
[07:09] <peepsalot> i've never tried it though
[07:12] <BFTD> yeah
[07:12] <BFTD> .ogg is only audio
[07:16] <airdog> Hello is anyone available to help me with a failed xubunto install? when i do the install no splash it drops with a unable to call job, but no error message, the last message i see it says it attachd my scsi sg0
[07:42] <Myrtti> It would be so much fun if install related questions would be at #ubuntu
[10:54] <PrimoTurbo> How do I install Cursors in xubuntu?
[12:30] <salty-horse> hi. I'm trying to locate the icon used for "quit" in the "action button" panel applet
[12:52] <kmindi|ibm-t20> hello
[12:53] <kmindi|ibm-t20> I have many *.tar.gz / *.tar.bz2 archives (fluxbox styles). how can i unpack all without typing everytime "tar -xzf nameofarchive.tar.[gz/bz2] "?
[12:54] <kmindi|ibm-t20> i tried it with "tar -xzf *.gz"
[12:54] <kmindi|ibm-t20> but that did not work
[01:02] <crdlb> for i in *.tar.gz; do tar -xzf $i; done
[01:07] <kmindi|ibm-t20> thx @ crdlb
[04:02] <Grem> hi
[04:03] <Grem> need some advice.. I'm on a laptop, and what keeps me using Kubuntu over Xubuntu is the bluetooth and access samba shares facilities that KDE has.. Is there a good alternative in Xubuntu?
[04:04] <kim_> hey, has anyone ahd any problems with the printer add wizard? when i try and add a new printer, it asks me for the password for 'root'...needless to say, my sudo password doesnt work. any ideas? is this a bug?
[05:14] <Merchelo> bah
[05:16] <Zeqfreed> bah bah
[05:30] <somerville32> bah bah bah
[05:31] <Merchelo> time to go to the pub
[05:43] <Aaron44> Hi
[05:43] <Aaron44> What's the root password?
[05:43] <TheSheep> !root | Aaron44
[05:43] <ubotu> Aaron44: sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for all information.
[05:43] <Aaron44> Cheers
[05:45] <Lectus> Hello
[05:45] <Lectus> how do I seach for a file name on / ?
[05:47] <TheSheep> Lectus: you can either use 'locate' or 'find', the former is much faster, but uses an index that is periodically created, so it may not find recently added files
[05:47] <Lectus> what's the syntax for find?
[05:48] <TheSheep> Lectus: the simpliest use is 'find / -name filename', see 'man find' for details
[05:48] <Lectus> ok... thanks
[06:11] <Deviad> Hello
[06:15] <somerville32> Hello! :)
[06:17] <Deviad> Can anyone pls tell me what's wrong with this scripts and xubuntu? http://www.linuxvar.it/index.php/Debian_su_MacBook_Pro#Illuminazione_schermo.2C_tastiera_e_sensori
[06:18] <Deviad> Those scripts are supposed to lower the clock when you unplug the power cable and raise that when you plug it instead
[06:18] <Deviad> the latest section adds a "couple of things" when you close the monitor
[06:18] <Deviad> of your laptop
[06:19] <Deviad> Beyond lowering and raising the clock they should lower and raise the backlight of the monitor as well
[06:19] <Deviad> this last thing does not work...
[06:19] <Deviad> the backlight is always the same
[06:19] <Deviad> Unfortunately no scripts like this came as default with xubuntu :\
[06:20] <somerville32> Hmmm... I'll take a look at the script later.
[06:28] <spotted> Hello
[06:29] <spotted> Can anyone pls copy and past the contents of lid.sh?
[06:29] <spotted> I have deleted the file for a mistake
[06:29] <spotted> the file is located in /etc/acpi/lid.sh
[06:29] <spotted> thank you very much
[06:29] <PriceChild> spotted, that file is part of the package acpi-support
[06:31] <spotted> PriceChild, can you pls just copy the contents of the file?
[06:31] <spotted> It will uninstall xubuntu-desktop as well
[06:31] <spotted> and I don't know the consequences of that :|
[06:31] <PriceChild> i never said uninstall and reinstall :)
[06:31] <spotted> dpkg-reconfigure is ok?
[06:32] <spotted> I guess it didn't work
[06:32] <PriceChild> spotted, http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/22177/ although I don't know whether that is feisty or gutsy's
[06:32] <PriceChild> sudo apt-get install --reinstall should do the best job afaik
[06:33] <spotted> it didn't reinstall the script
[06:33] <spotted> :\
[06:35] <spotted> thanks... pasting was the only thing to do :P
[06:37] <hyper__ch> anyone got a tv card?
[06:48] <grazie> hyper__ch: ^^
[06:48] <hyper__ch> well, getting already help in the German forum :)
[06:48] <hyper__ch> channel
[06:49] <grazie> I probably wouldn't be much help anyway
[06:51] <hyper__ch> grazie: thx anyway
[06:56] <jpbotelho> hiha
[06:58] <jpbotelho> i installed xfce in ubuntu yestarday, when i used gnome, the option of Screen Lock is work, but when i instaled xfce, it dont work anymore
[06:58] <jpbotelho> can any1 helpme?
[07:00] <hyper__ch> what's screen lock?
[07:01] <hyper__ch> jpbotelho:
[07:02] <jpbotelho> Screen lock option
[07:02] <hyper__ch> jpbotelho: what's that?
[07:03] <jpbotelho> Lock Screen Option
[07:04] <jpbotelho> have Exit button and Screen Lock button
[07:04] <hyper__ch> jpbotelho: what do they do?
[07:05] <jpbotelho> if i click in Exit, it work fine.. but if i click in "Screen Lock" it dont work
[07:06] <grazie> jpbotelho: Are these buttons on your keyboard? Have you tried ctrl+alt+Delete?
[07:08] <jpbotelho> i fixed xcreensaver
[07:08] <jpbotelho> no problem more
[07:08] <jpbotelho> ty
[07:12] <spotted> Can anyone pls tell me how to fix these errors: http://rafb.net/p/aFwkWk13.html
[07:12] <spotted> ?
[07:23] <mlalkaka> what program comes with xubuntu that i can use to manage wireless networks? i'm looking for a program that would allow me to select from a list of available wireless networks. it can be a console program too.
[07:24] <TheSheep> !wifi | mlalkaka
[07:24] <ubotu> mlalkaka: Wireless documentation can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[07:25] <mlalkaka> TheSheep: thanks
[07:25] <VR_> TheSheep: have you by any chance tried compiling 4.4.1 ?
[07:25] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: ever since I turned on the Display Composition Window Tweak with transparency the screensaver has problems...
[07:26] <grazie> spotted: Is there no build help from where you got the source utility from? Looks like you're missing stuff
[07:26] <spotted> I googled around and it is reported as a bug
[07:26] <spotted> that's why I stopped to look for other causes
[07:28] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: try enabling "display full screen overlay windows directly" in wm tweaks
[07:30] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: it is activated... maybe I should deactivate it?
[07:30] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: try
[07:31] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: I'll do :)
[07:32] <hyper__ch> btw, if you have a mail server that has TSL it will only secure the transmission of your email from your computer to the server right? It does not mean that the server will then securly transmit the email to the recipient server, right?
[07:35] <TheSheep> depends where you have the tsl
[07:37] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: well I tend to think not all email servers have TSL and I tend to think not all servers have SSL certificates and stuff... that's why I think the transmission between the email servers is not secured
[07:37] <hyper__ch> am I wrong on that?
[07:38] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: I never looked at the details, but I know it's negotiated -- so the secure protocols are tried first
[07:39] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: ah ok... well the problem is that one of my bosses (in his other firm) use SSL secured email server and they only have problems with it... and I kept thinking why using it if e-server to e-server isn't also secured
[07:39] <hyper__ch> and if that's the case then there's no need to secure the email from sender to e-mail server
[07:40] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: it's much harder to tap into the server-server communication
[07:40] <hyper__ch> TheSheep: you think so?
[07:41] <hyper__ch> I thought some "institutions" monitor all traffic like the echelon system
[07:41] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: if you check your mial in an internet cafe, the cafe owner can look at it. but if two servers excachnge information, you need someone on the routers to eavesdrop
[07:42] <hyper__ch> I thought the US gvt does that
[07:43] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: well, they also forbid using any encryption too strong for them to break
[07:43] <hyper__ch> and they also can order you to reveal passwords
[07:44] <grazie> Off topic but I'm sure someone here will know. Is it possible to connect s-video or SCART output to a DVI monitor input?
[07:44] <TheSheep> grazie: there are converters
[07:45] <hyper__ch> grazie: it's less offtopic than my conversation with TheSheep right now... I even pointed out that I'm in #xubuntu-offtopic ;)
[07:45] <hyper__ch> btw, I just bought the other day a new videocard now with a dvi output... where will I notice quality enhancements?
[07:46] <grazie> TheSheep: Thanks...I've seen the kits, I've even got a v.old myself. I'll take a closer look
[07:55] <hyper__ch> is here a OOo pro?
[07:56] <hyper__ch> I wonder how to enter the special characters from OOo with the keyboard... in Windows in M$ Office (and ASCII) code it was ALT+...
[07:57] <TheSheep> hyper__ch: google for 'compose key'
[07:57] <hyper__ch> OOo also have a keycombo but it's defined as "u+...."
[08:03] <hyper__ch> *restarting X*
[08:15] <BFTD> ho all
[08:33] <hyper_ch> anyone can help me identifying a process?
[08:33] <hyper_ch> I have lotus notes started through wine
[08:34] <hyper_ch> but it became un-responsive
[08:34] <hyper_ch> now I have still that wine windows open
[08:34] <hyper_ch> but ps aux | grep     lotus or notes or wine don't return anything
[08:35] <somerville32> hyper_ch, press: ctrl + alt + esc
[08:35] <somerville32> And then click the window.
[08:35] <Smygis> killall wine; pkill wine*; xkill klickonwindow
[08:35] <hyper_ch> somerville32: nope... tried that last time... killed other stuff... not that unresponsive window
[08:35] <somerville32> lol
[08:35] <somerville32> Most interesting
[08:36] <hyper_ch> somerville32: well, this time it worked... when I click on the window top bar...
[08:36] <somerville32> Tada :]
[08:36] <hyper_ch> but still, what process was it?
[08:37] <somerville32> Can't tell you know :P
[08:37] <somerville32> lol
[08:38] <hyper_ch> ;)
[08:39] <somerville32> Oh crap
[08:39] <somerville32> *now
[08:39] <somerville32> Stupid k key... too close to the n key : (
[08:41] <sopotted> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-pciutils-discuss/2007-February/000165.html
[08:41] <sopotted> Does anyone know any way to solve that bug?
[08:41] <sopotted> I'm kind of disappointed cos I cannot compile backlight.c
[08:41] <sopotted> because of that error :\
[08:42] <somerville32> I'm pretty sure that out pciutils package is forked
[08:42] <sopotted> somerville32, what do you mean?
[08:43] <somerville32> We have ubuntu specific modifications
[08:45] <sopotted> I have that problem on ubuntu
[08:45] <sopotted> :|
[08:46] <sopotted> gosh... I have to install gentoo just for a backlight to work... cool
[08:50] <jeriko> <3 gentoo
[08:52] <somerville32> sopotted, I doubt it.
[08:52] <somerville32> Backlight works on my laptop
[08:52] <somerville32> Your laptop might not support it
[08:53] <jeriko> indeed, linux is linux, distro shouldn't matter
[08:54] <TheSheep> jeriko: linux is kernel
[08:55] <grazie> hyper_ch: you only need too much spare time if you watch every single line of code compile.  I keep getting error messages with apt-get
[09:02] <hyper_ch> Lectus: maybe just the one you use are down
[09:03] <Lectus> I'm getting 404 not found
[09:04] <hyper_ch> my repos work fine
[09:05] <Lectus> I'll try to change the country
[09:05] <hyper_ch> Lectus: need mine?
[09:06] <hyper_ch> ch.archive.ubuntu.com
[09:06] <Lectus> nope... I got on: http://www.ubuntu-nl.org/source-o-matic/
[09:10] <Lectus> got it working now
[09:10] <Lectus> it seems that the repo from my country are down
[09:10] <hyper_ch> Lectus: can happen :)
[09:13] <arkanabar> Ever since I made xubuntu my default desktop, I've gotten a bug buddy report on every boot regarding evolution.  Where do I send this thing?
[09:14] <hyper_ch> !bugs
[09:14] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[09:16] <arkanabar> Thanks.
[09:16] <hyper_ch> arkanabar: you're welcome :)
[09:18] <Lectus> wow... I installed IceWM on xubuntu... looks cool
[09:18] <hyper_ch> Lectus: it's a nice manager
[09:19] <hyper_ch> Lectus: I have it on my USB stick
[09:20] <Lectus> although not all programs are visible on the menu... I don't know why
[09:20] <hyper_ch> Lectus: some thing remain a miracle ;)
[09:39] <Catoptromancy> Ok some reason I get w3m as my defaultbrowser instead of firefox
[09:46] <hyper_ch> Catoptromancy: do you have a question or was this just a statement?
[09:47] <Catoptromancy> heh
[09:47] <Catoptromancy> I think it was only gaim
[09:47] <Catoptromancy> no big deal
[09:47] <Catoptromancy> wanted firefox as default browser to open
[09:48] <Catoptromancy> didnt even know I had w3m until it somehow opened by default
[09:51] <hyper_ch> ;)
[10:59] <Deviad> MILAN CHAMPION
[11:54] <largos> I'm having a problem with OO.org on a xubuntu system, and I'm not sure where to ask about it.
[11:55] <largos> Today the font used in OO for drawing all the controlling widgets is much, much larger than it should be (eg: the menu bars / toolbars, etc.) and it generally looks less... detailed.  I think the rulers are missing mm ticks, for example
[11:55] <largos> screenshot up here: http://xplanet.sourceforge.net/clouds/clouds_2048.jpg
[11:55] <largos> er, http://ciscavate.org/data/oo-large.jpg  <-- there
[11:55] <largos> OpenOffice is in front, with Abiword in back to show the contrast in font size.
[11:56] <largos> yesterday everything looked fine, but after a reboot (and possibly an update?) it started looking like this.  Any ideas?
[11:57] <darrend> largos: installing openoffice.org-gtk might fix it
[11:57] <largos> darrend: ah.. thanks. I'll give that a shot.
[12:00] <largos> darrend++
[12:00] <largos> that's much, much better :)
[12:00] <darrend> cool :)
[12:00] <somerville32> \o/
[12:01] <largos> I wonder why it changed
[12:01] <largos> (the gtk version looks like what I was using yesterday)
[12:02] <darrend> don't know - some config messup somewhere probably.  I've had OOo issues like that on both gentoo (with xfce) and xubuntu
[12:02] <largos> hm... it also seems to have some different settings re: the document formatting.
[12:03] <largos> all my headings lost the space between number and content. eg: 1,2Analysis of the Problem vs. 1,2 Analysis of the Problem
 I wish I could just go back to using LaTeX
[12:16] <Ezep-notebook> hi
[12:16] <Ezep-notebook> how could i change the language of the keyboard?
[12:19] <maxamillion> Ezep-notebook: just a moment
[12:20] <largos> hm.. I'm wondering that too, actually :)
[12:20] <largos> I've always used xmodmap & .xsession, but it'd be nice to know the "xubuntu" suggested way...
[12:21] <Ezep-notebook> maxamillion: thx
[12:21] <maxamillion> its actually something we are going to be targeting as a subject to cover in the next release documentation, it seems to be a popular issue
[12:22] <largos> actually, I guess my question is more general -- I'd like to do arbitrary key remapping
[12:23] <largos> (and ideally have those changes persist across different WMs and into VTs
[12:23] <maxamillion> largos: right, that's what we plan to address ... i actually don't know how to do it, i've never had to change the key mapping post installation but our doc team is working on it and i am looking for the info at the moment
[12:25] <BFTD> anyone use ham radio and linux together?


 Wishing you the best. I'll help hold down the fort, and you're welcome to resume in your normal capacity whenever you're ready, just say the word :) (re @RikMills: Ok, it looks like on/after Tuesday next week I could be AWOL for a few months. Or at least if I am able to still be here, then will be with no good upload bandwidth enough do anything useful. This could all still change, but that is my best guess right now)
[10:51] <mparillo> Thank you Simon. I wonder how to translate "hold down the fort" into the King's English. "Carry on" seems too bland. "Once More Unto the Breach" sound too dramatic.
 btw. plasma-welcome is now in the archive
[13:16] <ahoneybun[m]> Rik Mills I'm adding some notes to that flatpak thing.


[11:56] <illovae> bonjourà tous
[11:57] <freeflying> @schedule shanghai
[11:57] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 23 Oct 23:00: Server Team | 24 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 31 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 23:00: Community Development Team
[12:58] <kraut> moin
[13:52] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[13:52] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
[13:53] <juliux> @logs
[13:53] <juliux> @logs
[13:53] <juliux> @log
[13:54] <juliux> @logs
[13:55] <stgraber> !logs
[13:55] <ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[13:56] <stgraber> !logs | juliux
[13:56] <ubotu> juliux: please see above


[02:37] <arraybolt3> !ping
[02:37] <ravage> bang!
[02:37]  * arraybolt3 falls over dead
[02:39] <daftykins> "the latency of this corpse is..."
[02:40] <arraybolt3> Just kidding.
[02:40]  * arraybolt3 goes back to setting up a ZFS pool
[02:41] <ravage> it is just zpool create really :D
[02:43] <arraybolt3> Alright that was pretty easy.
[02:43] <daftykins> i hope it was z2
[02:44] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[02:44] <arraybolt3> ZFS mirrored array across two 6TB disks.
[02:44] <arraybolt3> Now I just need to know if checksumming is enabled or not.
[02:46] <daftykins> i made a 4 x 4TB one downstairs under XCP-ng, for a test run
[02:46] <arraybolt3> Does anyone know how to query whether checksumming is enabled or not on ZFS?
[02:46] <ravage> It is enabled by default
[02:46] <arraybolt3> Oh good.
[02:47] <arraybolt3> Now I just need to find out how to make it reliably automount.
[02:47] <arraybolt3> (If it doesn't automount by default already.)
[02:47] <ravage> Yo uh should enable compression
[02:48] <ravage> That's not enabled by default
[02:48] <ravage> zstd probably
[02:48] <ravage> It should auto mount on Ubuntu at least
[02:48] <arraybolt3> It does automount! Woot!
[02:49] <arraybolt3> I don't need compression or dedup I don't think, this is just for backups, and *maybe* some VMs.
[02:49] <ravage> For VMS compression is good
[02:49] <ravage> So make sure to enable it there
[02:49] <ravage> You can enable it for subvolumes
[02:50] <arraybolt3> Oh it is good? OK, then I guess I'll do it.
[02:50] <ravage> For compressed backups it is kind of useless of course
[02:50] <arraybolt3> And I technically have enough RAM to dedup... but I don't want to hurt performance too bad, nor do I want 30 of my 32 GB to be eaten for that.
[02:50] <ravage> But for VMs it is actually faster
[02:50] <ravage> Do not dedup if you don't absolutely have to
[02:51] <daftykins> weird, i had always been under the impression that compression was an unnecessary risk
[02:51] <ravage> It really eats ram like hell
[02:51] <ravage> There really is no risk in compression:)
[02:52] <daftykins> i think there was back in win9x days
[02:53] <arraybolt3> Windows 2000, 7-zip seemed to eat data rather than compress it.
[02:53] <arraybolt3> Anything else I should enable? Just put compression into action.
[02:53] <arraybolt3> And also disabled drive spindown.
[02:53] <ravage> not really. the other defaults are fine
[02:53] <ravage> if you plan to use VMs make sure to create a thin pool
[02:54] <arraybolt3> I don't know what a thin pool is...
[02:54] <ravage> (thin provisioning)
[02:54] <arraybolt3> Oh for the VM disk images?
[02:54] <arraybolt3> Yeah that's easy. GNOME Boxes and VirtualBox both do that by default.
[02:54] <ravage> oh ok
[02:54] <ravage> well i use my VMs directly on a zfs volume :)
[02:54] <arraybolt3> (I'm a total newbie to ZFS, I just now started playing with it because it appeared to be safer for my data than a pure RAID1.)
[02:55] <ravage> if you use qcow images for example they support compression too
[02:55] <ravage> so you dont need ZFS fot that
[02:55] <ravage> i dont know how virtualbox handles it
[02:55] <arraybolt3> This is mainly my backup solution.
[02:55] <arraybolt3> I intend on throwing any important disk images and the like onto this.
[02:56] <arraybolt3> That way I don't lose them, even if one drive dies. And I also intend to compress them, encrypt, and upload to the cloud.
[02:56] <arraybolt3> I just figured I could also use the spare free space to hold VMs for my work.
[02:56] <daftykins> on *that* connection? :D
[02:56] <ravage> if you only store compressed files you can disable compression of course
[02:56] <ravage> but even then you will not see much performance impact with zstd
[02:56] <ravage> it really does not need much
[02:57] <arraybolt3> daftykins: Hey, it doesn't need to go fast. It's just another layer of security.
[02:58] <ravage> for a pure backup drive you could have just used mdadm of course
[02:58] <ravage> but ZFS is fun to play with
[02:58] <arraybolt3> mdadm won't catch silent data corruption in a RAID1.
[02:58] <arraybolt3> ZFS will.
[02:58] <ravage> true
[02:59] <ravage> it does at least does a verification from time to time :D
[02:59] <ravage> -does
[03:00] <ravage> NAME   SIZE  ALLOC   FREE  CKPOINT  EXPANDSZ   FRAG    CAP  DEDUP    HEALTH  ALTROOT
[03:00] <ravage> tank  58.2T  14.7T  43.5T        -         -    10%    25%  1.00x    ONLINE  -
[03:00] <ravage> i can do some more backups
[03:01] <lotuspsychje> oof
[03:01] <arraybolt3> Holy... smoke. What on earth.
[03:01] <lotuspsychje> wanna swap with my 256GB ssd lol?
[03:02] <ravage> let me think.. no :D
[03:02] <lotuspsychje> haha
[03:03]  * arraybolt3 has a 120 GB SSD in one of my laptops
[03:03] <daftykins> arraybolt3: well they're not great 'cloud backups' if they didn't make it :D
[03:03] <ravage> my ubuntu runs from a 120GB SSD
[03:03] <daftykins> i better get to bed, ttfn \o
[03:03] <ravage> nn daftykins
[04:21] <arraybolt3> !ping
[04:42] <Guest99> Hi, why are viewers like okular and text editors like kate using CPU even when minimized or on another virtualdesktop, when the screen is locked and the display is off? In ubuntu/linux Is that not an option for an app to notify the OS something like, "I'm going to sleep, wake me in one of the following circumstances: data to port N, action on my
[04:42] <Guest99> window."  ?
[06:59] <Guest99> On GNOME or KDE do idle GUI programs need to be awakened by the kernel in order to confirm that they have no tasks to do?
[08:19] <arraybolt3> !ping
[08:19] <arraybolt3> (Internet being unstable, testing a lot.)
[09:23] <cartdrige> Guest99, monitor the CPU/RAM usage for a while with a background script while the PC is 'sleeping'/locked and send the result to the maintainers.
[09:23] <cartdrige> That's what i would do.
[09:24] <cartdrige> i think the editor is calculating bitcoins for lotuspsychje to buy a new Ubuntu bluray.
[09:24] <cartdrige> :P
[13:51] <lotuspsychje> and so !lunar is now active to use
[13:51] <lotuspsychje> tnx for the addy!
[13:59] <lotuspsychje> BrassPin88: we discussed before, #ubuntu isnt a chat to bother users with offtopic, please respect that
[14:03] <BrassPin88> lotuspsychje sorry, have a pleasant day.
[14:08] <arraybolt3> Alright so I set up the ZFS mirror last night, copied my data to it, everything seemed to work, and then I had a power outage. The data still appears to be there (it was hours after the transfer that the power cut out), how likely is it that the data survived intact do you guys think?
[14:08] <arraybolt3> (I'm about to SHA256SUM all of it for good measure.)
[16:53] <JanC> arraybolt3: I don't see why it would be a problem (generally speaking, file system issues after a power outage happen to files/directories that are being written to at that moment)
[16:55] <arraybolt3> That's what I'm hoping.
[18:00] <murmel> arraybolt3: why not scrub?
[18:04] <arraybolt3> murmel: I don't know if that will tell me if the data on the array perfectly matches the data from the original disk or not.
[18:05] <murmel> arraybolt3: I guess, but at the same time, shouldn't you first make sure that the transfer was okay? (I mean before the outage?)
[18:06] <murmel> i mean something like rsync ;)
[18:06] <arraybolt3> Eh, not a horrible idea, though I think pcmanfm-qt uses rsync in the background, not entirely sure though.
[18:07] <murmel> arraybolt3: oh, yeah with transfers like these, I rather use rsync directly, so I can read the output etc
[18:11] <arraybolt3> I'm scared of rsync :P
[18:11] <murmel> oO
[18:11] <murmel> arraybolt3: what's so scary?
[18:12] <arraybolt3> Tons of command-line switches that do I-dont-know-what.
[18:12] <JanC> that's what manpages are for
[18:12] <arraybolt3> cp is just, take data, plop copy elsewhere.
[18:12] <murmel> arraybolt3: yeah and you have no idea, if source == target
[18:13] <arraybolt3> JanC: I KNOW. But I have tons of other stuff I'm doing, I have to find time to learn stuff like that.
[18:13] <JanC> and if you regularly have to do the same and don't want to look up the options every time, make an alias or so
[18:13] <murmel> I can definitely recommend the -v switch xD
[18:14] <arraybolt3> (I meant that in a funny way, not a mean one.)
[18:15] <arraybolt3> murmel: Which does...?
[18:15] <arraybolt3> Verbose?
[18:15] <JanC> on a system with a GUI, there is also grsync
[18:15] <murmel> arraybolt3: yes
[18:17] <murmel> oh wow that's quite the handy gui, if someone wants to use rsync
[18:17] <arraybolt3> Same reason I don't hardly use tar, too many bells and whistles.
[18:18] <murmel> eh, it's just getting used to it
[18:19] <JanC> ideally the defaults are all you need by default  :)
[18:21] <JanC> and like I said: when you need to do the same from time to time, make an alias (or a bash function or script when it's more complicated)
[18:21] <arraybolt3> Yeah, I can do all that. Just need to find time.
[18:23] <murmel> I mean you can always find time if you want to ;) reading the rsync manpage takes maybe 10 mins or so? write out the options you want/need
[19:48] <arraybolt3> Alright, all my file verification succeeded and all the data was intact. Woot!
[19:48] <arraybolt3> That took *forever*, but hey, it was 2.2 TB, what did I expect?
[21:10] <Bashing-om> UWN: Issue760 released to our viewing public: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue760 :D


[02:31] <askb> smoser: As requested, I have uploaded the logs, dmesg and audit.log for the run with 0.7.5-10 on the bug!


[04:13] <superfly> Evening Kilos
[06:11] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[06:12] <Kilos> morning everyone else
[08:52] <smile> hi Kilos
[09:04] <Kilos> morning smile inetpro
[09:05] <smile> good morning everyone :)
[11:06] <inetpro> .
[13:23] <smile> inetpro: .
[15:38] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[15:39] <inetpro> oh and hi smile
[15:58] <smile> hi :)
[16:16] <inetpro> keep smiling son
[17:05] <superfly> :-P
[17:23] <inetpro> wb superfly
[17:23] <Kilos> ty inetpro
[17:24] <inetpro> superfly: you back from church already?
[17:24] <inetpro> Kilos: hoe gaan dit daar?
[17:24] <Kilos> bangerig
[17:25] <Kilos> gaan more om te hoor gaan hulle bors oop sny
[17:25] <superfly> inetpro: our church meets at 14:00 (we meet in another church's building)
[17:25] <inetpro> ah
[17:25] <inetpro> superfly: have a good sunday
[17:26] <Kilos> yes a very good one
[17:26] <inetpro> Kilos: you'll be ok
[17:26] <Kilos> hows things there inetpro
[17:26] <inetpro> hot again today
[17:26] <Kilos> just cut your finger
[17:26] <Kilos> then imagine your whole chest split in the centre and opened up
[17:27] <Kilos> i think biiig eina
[17:28] <inetpro> Kilos: don't worry about the things you can't change
[17:29] <Kilos> lol
[17:30] <inetpro> you survived many challenging times before, you still have many miles ahead of you
[17:31] <Kilos> yeah i hope so just im a bit tired of eina all the time
[17:31] <inetpro> just tell wolfeyes to keep us up to date here
[17:33] <Kilos> will do
[17:57] <inetpro> if needed of course
[17:57] <inetpro> maybe you just get it all done quick, quick and keep us up to date yourself
[18:05] <Kilos> i think i have you on the cell
[18:06] <Kilos> not taking lappy with
[18:06] <Kilos> i dont think they will actually do anything tomorrow bbut maybe book in so they can send me to steve bhiko
[18:50] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:32] <smile> bye :)


[09:00] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday and happy Get Out of the Doghouse Day! :-D
[12:43] <nik90> mzanetti: hi, I managed to implement the u1db query stuff in my model. Turns out I didnt need to use u1db in my class, since u1db query already returned a QList<QVariant> model with the necessary results. All i had to do was to append that to our timezonemodel list and calculate the localtime :)
[12:46] <nik90> mzanetti: however I am facing a small issue with calculating the time difference between the 2 timezones. I did something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/7830107/
[13:40] <diogo_> hi guys
[13:40] <diogo_> how can i configure git in the sdk so that it will apear on github
[13:45] <mihir> dpm: ping !!
[13:46] <dpm> hi mihir
[13:46] <diogo_> dpm
[13:47] <mihir> dpm: i see this bug , https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1342148
[13:47] <mihir> and feel that it is already in plural form
[13:47] <mihir> any comments ?
[13:48] <diogo_> mihir can anyone tell me how to configure git in the sdk??
[13:48] <dpm> mihir, it's not yet internationalized to handle plurals. It should be internationalized like this: i18n.tr("After %1 Occurrences", count).arg(count)
[13:49] <mihir> diogo_: follow this instructions, http://developer.ubuntu.com/start/ubuntu-sdk/installing-the-sdk/
[13:49] <mihir> diogo_: let me know if you get stuck anywhere.
[13:49] <diogo_> mihir: thank you
[13:50] <mihir> dpm: it is like that only in code right now , i18n.tr("After %1 Occurrences").arg(recurrenceRule[0].limit):
[13:50] <mihir> what is second argument in i18.tr ?
[13:53] <diogo_> mihir: i didnt find how to configure git so that it would upload my project to github
[13:54] <dpm> mihir, some languages have more than 2 plural forms, and different ways of saying there is 1 thing or 0 things or 6 things... E.g. Arabic has 6 plural forms IIRC, and English 2. For the translation system to work with all plural forms for all languages, strings that contain variables that are replaced at runtime and are contained in user messages that vary according to that count, need to be marked for plural translation. That's how you'd do it for
[13:54] <dpm> your string:
[13:54] <dpm> i18n.tr("After %1 Occurrence", "After %1 Occurrences", recurrenceRule[0].limit).arg(recurrenceRule[0].limit)
[13:54] <mihir> dpm: thanks a lot for explanation :)
[13:54] <dpm> as strings in the code are always en_US (the base language for translations), and en_US has got only 2 plurals, you put those 2 plurals in the string
[13:55] <dpm> and then gettext takes care of all the rest.
[13:55] <dpm> it'd be good for the call to be more compact, so that you don't have to specify the count argument twice
[13:55] <dpm> but that's something that needs to be fixed in the SDK
[13:56] <dpm> i.e. bug 1184810
[13:58] <mihir> Hmm got it dpm
[14:08] <nik90> diogo_: why not use the command line git functions to upload to github?
[14:11] <diogo_> but how can i do that nike90??
[14:11] <diogo_> nike90: i've already made the ssh ket for github
[14:12] <diogo_> nike90: but when i create a new project in the ubuntu sdk it askes me for the version control
[14:12] <diogo_> but now i would like to know how i could configure git in the version control options of the sdk
[14:14] <nik90> diogo_:you can intiiate a git in any folder by git init
[14:14] <nik90> diogo_: I am assuming you are using github because you are familiar with git?
[14:14] <nik90> diogo_: if that is the case, just instantiate your git folder like you would do normally
[14:15] <diogo_> nike90: i'm not familiar with git
[14:15] <diogo_> but i know it's for opensource use and for other to help each and other in a determinate project
[14:16] <nik90> diogo_: whether you use the Ubuntu SDK or not, I think it would be helpful first if you read about using git first
[14:16] <nik90> diogo_: because git and bzr are basically version control stuff. Qtcreator shouldn't matter really
[14:17] <diogo_> nike90: so how can i then upload all my folders to github ??
[14:17] <nik90> diogo_: using traditional github commands like git push, git commit, git clone etc etc.
[14:17] <diogo_> nike90: i've tryed to do by had but it wasnt realy funny to do
[14:17] <nik90> diogo_: which is why you should read first the git manual :)
[14:18] <diogo_> nike90: ok
[14:19] <diogo_> nike90: just one thing, since i've made already the ssh key it's now easyer to send files to github right?
[14:20] <nik90> diogo_: actually without submitting your ssh key to github, you cannot upload anything to github
[14:21] <nik90> diogo_: ssh keys are used as form of authentication
[14:21] <diogo_> nike90: i've already done that
[14:21] <nik90> diogo_: Create the project in Qtcreator, and choose git in the version control when it asks you
[14:21] <diogo_> and then?
[14:22] <nik90> diogo_: after that, you need to push, pull using the git terminal commands
[14:23] <diogo_> nike90: and then??
[14:29] <nik90> diogo_: after that, you need to push, pull using the git terminal commands
[14:29] <nik90> diogo_: I am not comfortable with git, that's why I use bzr (launchpad) :)
[14:32] <diogo_> nike90: and how does bzr work??
[14:35] <nik90> diogo_: Please read the documention online and if you have any specific questions, please raise them.
[14:36] <nik90> diogo_: I cannot do all the work for you :P
[14:38] <diogo_> nike90: ok and sorry
[14:42] <mihir> dpm: if you get time to review this trival MR , https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/i18Resolver/+merge/227558
[14:42] <mihir> balloons: ping !!
[14:42] <mihir> balloons: why it is failing Jenkins https://code.launchpad.net/~mihirsoni/ubuntu-calendar-app/i18Resolver/+merge/227558
[14:44] <balloons> mihir, odd.. There's a couple mp's changing how new event works.. There's a bug currently with events where duplicates are being saved
[14:44] <balloons> that said, the tests in trunk should be working around the bug
[14:44] <mihir> Hmm okay
[14:44] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1334833
[14:44] <balloons> and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1334883
[14:45] <mihir> i see, both are onHold
[14:48] <balloons> right, so anyways, I've not heard of anyway having troubles landing changes in trunk. But let's see what jenkins does after your last commit
[14:49] <mihir> balloons: sure :)
[14:51] <brendand> dpm, were you not able to find someone for this bug? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-filemanager-app/+bug/1342336
[14:53] <balloons> brendand, I was going to have a look in a moment
[14:54] <balloons> brendand, I'm curious how jenkins still continues to pass it, and the tests have been running for awhile without change if something is fundamentally broken
[14:55] <balloons> mihir, looks like the new run passed just fine
[14:59] <brendand> balloons, that's a different mystery to solve. it is definitely and clearly broken
[14:59] <balloons> mihir, if you encounter trouble again with it just ping.. Should land fine
[14:59] <mihir> balloons: yeah , thanks...i pushed another change lets see
[15:00] <mihir> balloons: I'll install VM and then utopic for AP by this weekend
[15:01] <balloons> mihir, that should come in handy for you :-)
[15:20] <mihir> dpm: ping !!
[15:20] <mihir> dpm: i see we have old Screenshots in store for calendar , should we update that ??
[16:28] <brendand> dpm, it looks from here like the phone app jenkins bot doesn't run on device: https://code.launchpad.net/~dpm/ubuntu-filemanager-app/readable-root-fix-1331699/+merge/224046
[16:29] <dpm> brendand, what's the phone app jenkins bot?
[16:31] <brendand> dpm, the jenkins bot that runs the jobs which tests the merge proposals for core apps
[16:32] <dpm> brendand, ah, gotcha. Yes, MPs for core apps run on the desktop only. This is something we've been discussing with Francis for a while, as we'd like to run them on devices. I need to follow up with him some time this week on the status
[16:33] <brendand> dpm, that's the reason then
[16:33] <brendand> dpm, filemanager has different behaviour on desktop vs device
[16:33] <brendand> dpm, only one was broken
[17:08] <snizzo> hey, just a question, in ubuntu touch, is there the possibility to use some old flavored software like.. gedit or kate?
[17:09] <snizzo> I mean not officially, also doing hack here and there ;)
[17:09] <snizzo> or connecting it to a screen in some way...
[19:29] <coty3p> hi !!
[20:46] <Randy_O> Does anyone know where I can find more info on the newer design elements for Ubuntu on a phone? The stuff at Developer seems to be a bit out daated


[08:38] <sabdfl> voip seems to be failing me
[08:38] <sabdfl> oww
[11:57] <sabdfl> ba
[12:00] <iainfarrell> baa black sheep?
[12:00] <iainfarrell> :)
[12:55] <thorwil> sabdfl: that alien headshrinking remark is the first time you really do sound strange ... making it recursive ;p
[12:56] <sabdfl> heh
[12:57] <sabdfl> lucky i cut out the part about eating babies
[17:01] <wendar> News for the week.
[17:01] <wendar> The new design.ubuntu.com site was praised highly at FOSDEM last weekend
[17:01] <wendar> by designers
[17:02] <wendar> particularly, how open it is for community collaborators
[17:03] <wendar> while we're working on improving our own collaboration, it's nice to have that external perspective from designers who collaborate with other communities :)
[17:04] <wendar> Also, http://openusability.org/ is looking for some help with the website
[17:06] <wendar> their designer/developer/admin retired last year, so the site has drifted
[17:06] <wendar> not very "usable" at the moment
[17:06] <wendar> generally an interesting group
[17:07] <wendar> mostly usability experts who are neither designers or developers


[05:02] <ianorlyn> hmm was then lightdm fix in todays images?
[05:41] <ianorlyn> hmm I notice the lightdm backgroudn changed but to something complety different does this mean the lightdm bug gets marked fix released ?


[06:03] <tjaalton> desrt: ok, that's weird..
[06:04] <tjaalton> pwnguin: we can use dbus though, and add the other devices with a daemon like what Alexia_Death has done
[06:04] <pwnguin> oh yea
[06:27] <desrt> tjaalton: any ideas?
[06:27] <desrt> tjaalton: is this the sort of thing that was expected to be working out of the box?
[06:57] <tjaalton> desrt: at some point
[08:07] <Alexia_Death> desrt: with my daemon it already is pretty much a matter of starting the daemon and thats it.
[08:07] <Alexia_Death> desrt: initial configuration is a bit of work.
[08:53] <tseliot> tjaalton: it looks like my patch fixes the problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfree86-driver-synaptics/+bug/322659
[08:53]  * wgrant is back on the planet now.
[08:54] <tjaalton> tseliot: synaptics 1.0.0 was released, and according to the announce those things should be autodetected now and if not, the kernel is buggy
[08:55] <wgrant> tjaalton: There are no changes to that end since 0.99.3
[08:55] <tjaalton> so I'm thinking that these patches might break things for other users
[08:55] <wgrant> Only manpage changes, FDI comments, and float properties.
[08:55] <wgrant> The problem is that the autodetection is strange.
[08:55] <wgrant> It decides that if it can use two-finger scrolling, it will disable edge-scrolling.
[08:55] <tjaalton> wgrant: sure, but I meant the changes between 0.15.x -> 0.99.3
[08:56] <wgrant> It's reasonable, but a complete change in behaviour from what we have traditionally had.
[08:56] <tjaalton> right, and that's something the kernel should tell
[08:56] <wgrant> No.
[08:56] <wgrant> It's policy.
[08:56] <wgrant> Everybody expects touchpads to have edge-scrolling on by default.
[08:56] <tjaalton> Kernels up to excluding 2.6.29 announce multi-touch capabilities for all
[08:56] <tjaalton> synaptics touchpads even if the hardware does not support it. If you have a
[08:56] <tjaalton> such a touchpad, you will need to enable edge scrolling explicitly in the
[08:56] <tjaalton> configuration.
[08:56] <wgrant> But the new upstream policy is to enable it only when two-finger scrolling cannot be enabled.
[08:56] <bryce_> heya
[08:57] <tjaalton> hi bryce_
[08:57] <wgrant> Evening bryce_ .
[08:57] <tseliot> tjaalton: my new patch fixes what I broke with another patch therefore I think it's ok to upload it
[08:57] <tseliot> hey bryce_
[08:57] <wgrant> tseliot: May I see this patch?
[08:57] <tjaalton> tseliot: ah, ok :)
[08:57] <tseliot> wgrant: which one?
[08:57] <wgrant> tseliot: The one that isn't in the archive yet.
[08:58] <tseliot> wgrant: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfree86-driver-synaptics/+bug/320632/comments/53
[08:58] <tjaalton> wgrant: according to the text I pasted, kernel 2.6.29 should be more wise about these issues, but maybe I'm misreading things
[08:59] <tseliot> tjaalton: there's still something wrong in the detection of the touchpad edges for ALPS
[08:59] <wgrant> tjaalton: It's a different, but related, issue.
[08:59] <wgrant> tjaalton: Few people expect two-finger scrolling, but that's all most people will get (even with 2.6.29).
[09:00] <tjaalton> I'm lucky not to have a touchpad, so it all is a bit irrelevant to me :P
[09:00] <tjaalton> BMFH
[09:01] <wgrant> tjaalton: Basically, pre-0.99, nothing was autodetected. Vertical edge-scrolling was always enabled, and 1-, 2- and 3-finger taps always emulated clicks on buttons 1, 2 or 3 respectively.
[09:01] <tjaalton> wgrant: I trust your judgement, so whatever has your stamp-of-approval, I'll upload :)
[09:01] <wgrant> Heh.
[09:01] <wgrant> tseliot's patches are what I would have done.
[09:01] <tseliot> ;)
[09:02] <wgrant> Had I know there was going to be so much bugmail from the default changes, I would have done it myself before I went away...
[09:02] <wgrant> And we finally have float properties.
[09:05] <bryce-sprint> tjaalton: did you get a chance to look at the client limit patch?  I could rework that patch to s/1024/512/ if you haven't already, that should be pretty simple
[09:05] <bryce-sprint> tjaalton: the hotel wireless here is ultra slow though
[09:07] <tjaalton> bryce-sprint: well, the proto patch uses 16bits instead of 8, so maybe 9 would do for 512, but I guess 16 doesn't hurt. the one for xorg-server is trivial
[09:10] <tjaalton> gotta run now ->
[09:14] <wgrant> Huh, DRI2 actually works.
[09:14] <bryce-sprint> wgrant: what did you need to do to flip that on?
[09:15] <wgrant> bryce-sprint: Just change the AccelMethod to UXA.
[09:15] <wgrant> It's only a little bit quirky with some menus.
[09:15] <bryce-sprint> ok good
[09:16] <bryce-sprint> wgrant: can you file bugs with the issues you find?
[09:17] <wgrant> bryce-sprint: Against what? -intel?
[09:17] <tseliot> when I tried UXA X started and when I launched gnome-terminal X froze (together with the kernel)
[09:18] <wgrant> The menus do this very strange bright fadish thing when coming in and out.
[09:18] <wgrant> But i915 with UXA and DRI2 works fine, with redirected direct rendering.
[09:23] <wgrant> tseliot: Why do you go back to disabling multi-finger taps in your patch in commennt #53?
[09:23] <wgrant> Disabling on non-MacBooks, that is.
[09:23] <tseliot> wgrant: because it breaks drag and drop with physical buttons
[09:24] <tseliot> which is not what we want ;)
[09:26] <wgrant> tseliot: You mean it does strange scrolly thing and releases early?
[09:26] <wgrant> There must be better ways to fix that, given that I'm sure it worked before.
[09:27] <tseliot> if you have one finger on the touchpad and one to hold down the physical left button drag and drop would simply not work
[09:27] <bryce-sprint> wgrant: yes
[09:28] <tseliot> and the cursor will just move
[09:30] <wgrant> tseliot: I can drag and drop almost fine - the only problem is that it drops when I take a finger of the touchpad, rather than off the button.
[09:41] <tseliot> hmm...
[11:01] <popey> before I file a bug report against xrandr/xorg in jaunty, I just wanted to ask if there was some fundamental change in the intel driver that might cause regressions/breakages?
[11:02] <popey> (specifically it ignoring a resolution I put either on the command line with xrandr and also if I put the correct modeline in xorg.conf)
[11:19] <tjaalton> popey: change since when? the driver has supported randr-1.2 since feisty, so forcing a mode needs some work
[11:22] <popey> tjaalton: well I used a little bit of gtf/xrandr magic as recently as a week or so ago, and now xorg just barfs when i try to set it to a specific res
[11:23] <tjaalton> popey: hmm, that sounds odd
[11:24] <popey> tjaalton: worth filing a bug ?
[11:24] <tjaalton> popey: probably.. where are the errors from?
[11:24] <popey> there is no error, the screen just goes to a different mode - uniform colour of brown, no icons, no panels
[11:25] <popey> system isn't locked up, i can restart gdm and get back in
[11:25] <tjaalton> huh, weird
[11:25] <popey> xorg.0.log doesn't even make reference to the resolution i set in xorg.conf
[11:26] <popey> i know it's reading the xorg.conf because i added the necessary wacom stuff and that works
[11:26] <tjaalton> you need to do something like here to force a mode: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/foo/xorg.conf
[11:28] <popey> I had something similar, with a separate section for modes
[11:29] <popey> have modified it to be more like yours and it still ignores the res I put in
[11:30] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/xorg.conf
[11:30] <tjaalton> logfile might help
[11:30] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Xorg.0.log :)
[11:32] <tjaalton> what if you add 'Option "monitor-LVDS" "Generic Monitor"' to the device section?
[11:36] <popey> oh I see, in the logs it's trying to set VGA to 1280x720?
[11:36] <tjaalton> yes
[11:37] <popey> ok, adding that option I get a lot of blinking but no x on the panel
[11:37] <tjaalton> another logfile too?-)
[11:38] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/Xorg.0.log_2
[11:39] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/xorg.conf_2
[11:39] <popey> oh, my bad
[11:40] <popey> i set the option in the wrong place
[11:41] <tjaalton> does it work if you move it?
[11:41] <popey> heh, no
[11:41] <tjaalton> yeah, according to the logfile it did try 12x7
[11:41] <tjaalton> but I've no idea why it doesn't work
[11:41] <tjaalton> hmm, are you sure it's a 75Hz screen?
[11:42] <popey> i used gtf to generate that modeline, and specified "1280 720 60"
[11:42] <tjaalton> oh
[11:42] <tjaalton> I misread it
[11:44] <popey> worth me filing a bug do you think?
[11:44] <tjaalton> yeah
[11:45] <popey> although from the xorg log it seems to be using 1280x720 for the external VGA still and autodetecting LVDS
[11:46] <popey> oh, then tries later
[12:56] <popey> tjaalton: further investigation reveals that actually my laptop can't switch to _any_ resolution other than the native one
[13:15] <popey> tjaalton: fyi if you're interested i filed bug 324286 about it. thanks for the help
[13:17] <tjaalton> popey: ok thanks
[18:31] <jcristau> hrm. patches.ubuntu.com isn't getting updated?
[20:15] <tjaalton> seems like it
[21:26] <maxb> Hi, after the recent libgnome change to use the xorg detected dpi value for font sizing, my fonts are huge
[21:26] <maxb> However, "xrandr --verbose" is getting the correct screen dimensions
[21:27] <maxb> Hardware is an Acer Aspire One
[21:27] <maxb> Can someone guide me to filing a useful bug? Thanks.
[21:30] <jcristau> hrm.
[21:30] <jcristau>     - Add libxinerama1 to build depends.
[21:30] <jcristau> really?
[21:38] <tjaalton> sounds odd
[21:40] <tjaalton> maxb: just use 'ubuntu-bug -p xserver-xorg-video-FOO', that should include the useful logs
[21:51] <maxb> tjaalton: xdpyinfo says the correct resolution and physical dimensions...does it still make sense to file against the driver?
[21:52] <tjaalton> maxb: the logfile will tell
[21:52] <maxb> ok
[21:53] <jcristau> (probably not. but then the font size should be correct.)
[21:55] <maxb> LP 324518 filed, anyway
[21:58] <tjaalton> (==) intel(0): DPI set to (96, 96)
[21:59] <jcristau> tjaalton: i think that one's misleading
[21:59] <jcristau> it says that here, too, but xdpyinfo says 125x125
[21:59] <tjaalton> hmm, nice
[22:01] <superm1> tjaalton, dpkg-shlibdeps complains elsewise...
[22:03] <tjaalton> superm1: hum, ok
[22:03] <jcristau> superm1: okay. i guess that makes sense. blobs ftl.
[22:03] <tjaalton> maxb: could be that your font sizes are just too large?-)
[22:03] <superm1> yeah. pretty much everything in that upload was working around ugly behavior that happens with the blob :(
[22:04] <tjaalton> maxb: I believe the defaults have been changed in the past to work around some issues, so maybe they should be changed again
[22:05] <tjaalton> hmm, although they should be smaller now
[22:05] <maxb> tjaalton: Well, it could be that everything's working as designed, but if that's the case, then every Aspire One user is going to get their fonts blown up to an unhelpful size when upgrading
[22:05] <tjaalton> maxb: I'm not sure what's going on, but probably the guys at the sprint will notice it too, and do something about it :)
[22:13] <maxb> ooh, good point
[22:13] <maxb> Hopefully there'll be a few netbooks there
[22:26] <maxb> tjaalton: I just updated a second machine, with the same result - a distinctly excessive increase in font size. I suppose things are working as designed, but this design is liable to annoy people upgrading, I suspect
[22:29] <tjaalton> maxb: AIUI the effect should be the opposite, but oh well :)


[19:40] <mup> PR snapd#12800 opened: interfaces/core.go: comment corrections, no functional changes <Created by rpjday> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12800>
[20:20] <mup> PR snapd#12801 opened: all.go: some syntactic cleanup, no functional changes <Created by rpjday> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12801>