[12:04] <Mez> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
[12:04] <Mez> doesnt mention official stuff yet
[12:06] <mdz> jordi.
[12:09] <sivang> mdz: you'd be happy to know that we are making some progress on lpint, the helper lib is more improved in making the patches less intrusive now, I already have a gedit patch pending and now posting file roller, jamesh has evince and gucharmap ones and seb takes care of packaging the lib and providing me guidance where needed :)
[12:09] <mdz> sivang: in the end, how many packages do we need to patch?
[12:10] <Mez> mdz: I think backports is ready to go our end - as soon as things start getting shoved into the official repositories
[12:11] <sivang> mdz: well, as a basic estimate (give or take a couple more) we start we the ones at http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration
[12:11] <Burgundavia> seb128, are you removing the root terminal launcher soon?
[12:12] <Mez> mdz: how do we go about getting some sort of "official" website for it
[12:12] <Mez> or do we just use the wiki?
[12:13] <sivang> mdz: but, given we now have one function to enable both UIManager and glade/manual created menus apps in the code, and in UIManager there's 1 line to patch in the xml ui specification, + 1 line to patch the configure script, it's not impossible to manage to finish this in time, excluding complicated non standard stuff like firefox or openoffice (which I havn't yet looked into)
[12:13] <seb128> Burgundavia: with the next upload of g-t probably, any hurry?
[12:13] <Kamion> \sh: wow, dude, you need to get access to an amd64 box rather than using the bogoupload strategy :)
[12:13] <sivang> mdz: so you get about ~3 lines of meaningful patch per app, approx.
[12:14] <Burgundavia> seb128, just looking at my old bugs, clearing some out
[12:14] <\sh> Kamion: well actually I would like to have a HP bladecenter ,-)
[12:14] <seb128> there is no doubt lpi patches will be here soon
[12:14] <sivang> mdz: oh, and one expection to that is bonnobu ui , which requires some more love..
[12:14] <seb128> Burgundavia: thanks
[12:14] <seb128> Burgundavia: I've closed your trash one, that would break the coherence with the rest of the desktop
[12:14] <sivang> mdz: (although gedit as an example, wasn't hard to do at all)
[12:14] <ajmitch> \sh: so you don't have to abuse the buildd repeatedly? :)
[12:15] <\sh> Kamion: I hope it's the last one...
[12:15] <\sh> ajmitch: come on...one source out of .... I didn't count
[12:15] <ajmitch> heh
[12:15] <ajmitch> it probably takes only less than a minute to break anyway
[12:16] <Kamion> and again, using debuild -v would be really really nice
[12:16] <Kamion> (on merges)
[12:16] <\sh> come on...wings3d is not my fault ,-)
[12:17] <Kamion> wings3d?
[12:17] <Mez> Kamion, bogoupload?
[12:17] <|rockinnerd|> hello all
[12:17] <\sh> yes..strange output of the buildd
[12:17] <Mez> whata  cool word, whats it mean? :P
[12:17] <Kamion> Mez: throw packages at the buildd until one sticks
[12:17] <Kamion> I made it up
[12:17] <Mez> Kamion, hehe :D I like the terminology - I thought that was what it meant :D but had to be sure :D
[12:17] <Mez> hehe
[12:17] <Kamion> \sh: I was talking about all your merges; MOM's REPORT file recommends that you use -v in order to make -changes mails informative
[12:18] <jordi> mdz_
[12:18] <Burgundavia> seb128, yes, I noticed that
[12:18] <Kamion> Mez: the REPORT file tells you
[12:18] <Kamion> it is linked to from the bugs that MOM files
[12:18] <Burgundavia> seb128, probably need to have a better dicussion of that sort of behaivour upstream
[12:18] <Mez> Kamion, REPORT file?
[12:18] <\sh> ok..after breezy..christmas is coming and if you want to do something good...send all your old amd64 hardware to me ,-)
[12:18] <Burgundavia> seb128, where is the breakage for this bug? https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11908
[12:18] <Kamion> Mez: if you don't know, you don't need to know. ;-)
[12:19] <\sh> Kamion: ok..from tomorrow on
[12:19] <Kamion> \sh: thanks a lot
[12:19] <\sh> today I mean ,-)
[12:19] <Kamion> those of us who read all of breezy-changes will thank you :-)
[12:20] <Mez> I dont read breezy-changes
[12:20] <Mez> I collect it
[12:20] <\sh> Mez: u r missing something :)
[12:20] <Mez> hmm?
[12:20] <Mez> I collect it :D hehe
[12:20] <ajmitch> it's entertaining reading
[12:21] <Mez> It jsut gets sent to a folder and marked as "read"
[12:21] <seb128> Burgundavia: all the notification stuff are b0rked atm
[12:21] <Mez> so I can refer to it if need be
[12:21] <Burgundavia> seb128, ok, that as much
[12:22] <\sh> yeah..daniels poetry is really interessting to read...laughing, crying, screaming whatever mood u like :) it's all in there
[12:22] <Mez> poetry?
[12:22] <\sh> my patch dances are nothing ;)
[12:22] <Mez> * Set DFLT_XKB_CONFIG_ROOT to /etc/X11/xkb. ???
[12:22] <Mez> ah yes,
[12:23] <seb128> elmo: python-gtk2-doc sync please
[12:23] <Mez> I see how the metaphor counterpoints the surrealism of the underlying humanity of the author
[12:23] <Mez> :-"
[12:24] <Burgundavia> seb128, hal-device-manger stuff should be pushed upstream to freedeskop.org?
[12:24] <HrdwrBoB> counterpoints the surrealism? death's too good for them
[12:24] <\sh> Mez: no u get it :)
[12:25] <\sh> * Make relationship with xbase-clients a little less rocky by removing Conflicts and just use Replaces.  Share the love, people.
[12:25] <\sh> this is poetry
[12:25] <Mez> lol
[12:25] <Mez> MOM's scott's auto merge thing isnt it?
[12:25] <seb128> Burgundavia: it's a freedesktop stuff, no?
[12:25] <\sh> Mez: yes
[12:25] <Burgundavia> seb128, is the gui application freedesktop stuff as well?
[12:26] <Mez> \sh yeah I remember getting a few of those bugs for k3b
[12:26] <Mez> until we overtook debian
[12:26] <\sh> * Add a Build-Depends on libxext-dev.  For my next stunning move, I'll actually pay attention to what I'm doing.
[12:26] <seb128> Burgundavia: afaik yep
[12:26] <Burgundavia> seb128, ok
[12:26] <Mez> \sh Daniel Stone?
[12:26] <\sh> Mez: yep
[12:27] <Mez> "THANKYOU LIBTOOL.
[12:27] <\sh> u see...laughing, crying, screaming..everything is in breezy-changes ;)
[12:28] <Mez> REVU *
[12:28] <\sh> STRIKE!
[12:28] <Mez> o_O
[12:28] <\sh> kamion: u never see an upload of ire again :)
[12:29] <carstenh> jbailey: should {en,dis}abeling of inetd based services possible?
[12:29] <ajmitch> Mez: we'll get to them..
[12:30] <jbailey> mdz: I remember you mentioning that in breezy, services might be tweaked to not use inetd by default.  How much should the firewall manager try to get inetd right?
[12:31] <carstenh> s/possible/be possible/
[12:31] <Burgundavia> seb128, we are going with 00.o2 for Breezy?
[12:31] <pitti> Burgundavia: yes
[12:32] <tseng> we already have it?
[12:32] <hub_> bah
[12:32] <hub_> and abiword 2.4 ?
[12:32] <Burgundavia> pitti, ok
[12:32] <hub_> not yet released :-/
[12:32] <sivang> pitti: nice to see you up to late :)
[12:32] <sivang> pitti: 'sup?
[12:33] <pitti> sivang: I waited until ffox finished on the buildds, now I'm releasing it
[12:33] <pitti> I can't let the folks out wait any longer
[12:33] <pitti> the world just got a working hoary firefox again
[12:34] <sivang> pitti: wow, thanks , I didn't know hoary's friefox didn't work :)
[12:34] <sivang> pitti: (I will thank you tommorow at work, where I Have hoary)
[12:34] <pitti> sivang: well, it worked reasonably without extensions
[12:36] <Mez> pitti: hows FF going?
[12:36] <pitti> Mez: just released it, typing the advisory now
[12:36] <Mez> kk
[12:41] <mdz> jbailey: does it matter to the firewall manager?  either there is a port listening or not, right?
[12:41] <carstenh> mdz: the firewall-gui has an integrated services-configuration-tool
[12:42] <carstenh> mdz: should this tool support enabeling or disabeling inetd based services at your opinion?
[12:43] <mdz> carstenh: as long as it is possible to filter the port, it's not important to me whether it can enable/disable the service also
[12:44] <carstenh> mdz: ok, those two parts are independent. thanks.
[12:44] <Burgundavia> carstenh, how does your services disabling interact with the gnome-system-tools one?
[12:44] <MishaS> hi. i just read /topic. :)) any eta for the fixed X? :)
[12:45] <Burgundavia> MishaS, October 13, 2005 at the latest
[12:45] <carstenh> Burgundavia: i pinged $some_dd_which_name_i_forgot and asked him which one will be default, the one in gst or bum
[12:46] <carstenh> Burgundavia: depending on his answer i will use either the database from gst or bum
[12:46] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:46] <Burgundavia> are you going to use the UI from either as well?
[12:46] <MishaS> Burgundavia: that's fair enough :)
[12:46] <\sh> cheers people off to bed
[12:46] <Burgundavia> MishaS, to truly answer your question, mileage varies between people
[12:46] <sivang> seb128: take it while it's hot :) http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/lpint/file-roller/
[12:46] <sivang> seb128: good night now, see you tommorow
[12:47] <sivang> night all!
[12:47] <carstenh> Burgundavia: i will write my own gui, maybe i can reuse some code. i will know this after i had a closer look at the one which will be default
[12:48] <Burgundavia> carstenh, the current g-s-t gui is a very nice one, simple and easy. Don't see why you would need to write another one
[12:48] <carstenh> .oO(chkconfig in redhat is a really nice tool)
[12:48] <carstenh> Burgundavia: 'cause it is part of my bounty :)
[12:49] <Burgundavia> grr...
[12:49] <Burgundavia> having two seperate and different UI's to do the same thing is very non-Ubuntu/Gnome
[12:49] <seb128> sivang: thanks
[12:50] <carstenh> Burgundavia: you could disable one per default
[12:50] <carstenh> Burgundavia: kubuntu-users normally don't have gst, right?
[12:50] <carstenh> Burgundavia: i really don't know, but i guess it
[12:51] <Burgundavia> no
[12:51] <carstenh> not right?
[12:51] <Burgundavia> kubuntu users have their own kde stuff
[12:51] <carstenh> ok, does it provide a service-config-tools?
[12:52] <MishaS> Burgundavia: do you know if there were any changes in xkb between xfree86 and xorg?
[12:52] <Burgundavia> just looking at the mac os x firewall tool, it only seems to lock down the port, not disable the service
[12:52] <Burgundavia> MishaS, no idea, I don't code
[12:52] <Mez> am i ok shving MOM stuff in revu? seeing as I dont have upload (and markit as PEND and link to it in the bug)
[12:52] <MishaS> Burgundavia: sorry.
[12:52] <carstenh> Burgundavia: it disables services too, it has three tabs, one for en-/disableing services
[12:53] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:53] <Burgundavia> what about merging the services stuff into your code then, and do a tabbed interface?
[12:54] <carstenh> Burgundavia: the problem is that i did not know about services-admin when i wrote my proposal and it was in the original bounty
[12:54] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:54] <carstenh> Burgundavia: ubuntu-development is python-centric, services-admin is written in c + glade + perl
[12:55] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:55] <carstenh> Burgundavia: so this would be very hard, but maybe i can reuse the glade-part
[12:56] <carstenh> Burgundavia: JFYI: the gui will look like this: www.fh-trier.de/~heyc/fwgui.jpg
[12:57] <Burgundavia> I saw that earlier
[12:57] <carstenh> ok
[12:57] <Burgundavia> what goes under sharing?
[12:57] <carstenh> hmm, same question the second time :/ i should find another name
[12:58] <carstenh> Burgundavia: internet connection sharing
[12:58] <Burgundavia> ok
[12:58] <Burgundavia> sharing to me means p2p and other things
[12:58] <Burgundavia> no ics
[12:58] <Burgundavia> s/no/not
[12:58] <carstenh> Burgundavia: do you have a better name for it?
[12:59] <carstenh> Burgundavia: many people will not understand masqerading or snat
[12:59] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:59] <carstenh> Burgundavia: mac os x calls this internet
[12:59] <carstenh> MishaS: too long :)
[01:00] <Burgundavia> not ideal either
[01:00] <MishaS> npics :)
[01:00] <carstenh> npics?
[01:00] <MishaS> just first letteers :) sorry,could not resist...
[01:00] <carstenh> ah, most people would not understand it ;)
[01:01] <Burgundavia> what about network?
[01:02] <carstenh> Burgundavia: sounds really good, thanks :)
[01:03] <pitti> night guys
[01:03] <carstenh> night pitti
[01:03] <carstenh> Burgundavia: i have also space for two rows
[01:03] <pitti> and if anybody yells "Firefox" at me tomorrow, I'll do something very bad to him
[01:03] <pitti> I have 8 hours of sleep to think about what in particular :-)
[01:03] <pitti> night everybody
[01:03] <carstenh> .oO(Internet Sharing or Connection Sharing?)
[01:03] <TerminX> blah.. synaptic locks up X and apt-get --build source synaptic fails :(
[01:04] <carstenh> .oO(... or Network Sharing)
[01:05] <Burgundavia> carstenh, network sharing is the most clear, but I don't know about length
[01:05] <carstenh> Burgundavia: wait a minute
[01:06] <carstenh> Burgundavia: www.fh-trier.de/~heyc/fwgui.jpg
[01:06] <Burgundavia> what goes under properties?
[01:07] <carstenh> Burgundavia: should be enough space
[01:07] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:07] <carstenh> Burgundavia: respond to pings, logging...
[01:07] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:08] <Burgundavia> can you provide me a list of exactly what you are planning to put under there?
[01:08] <Burgundavia> just looking for a more descriptive name
[01:08] <elmo> seb128: done
[01:08] <carstenh> Burgundavia: ok, i don't have decided what to put there
[01:09] <Burgundavia> oh
[01:09] <carstenh> Burgundavia: but i will think about it and contact you
[01:09] <carstenh> Burgundavia: or i could think about it now and ping you when finished
[01:09] <Burgundavia> another point, there is no indication of whether or not the firewall is currently running
[01:10] <Burgundavia> maybe add a Status section on the first tab would be good
[01:10] <Burgundavia> with a clear icon showing the current status
[01:10] <carstenh> Burgundavia: there is a label "Firewall started" or "Firewall stoppen"
[01:10] <Burgundavia> it needs to be more clear, IMHO
[01:10] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[01:10] <carstenh> Burgundavia: i don't want too much tabs
[01:10] <Burgundavia> seperated and made bigger
[01:10] <Burgundavia> not another tab, just above the current rules stuff
[01:11] <carstenh> Burgundavia: a red or a green light?
[01:11] <Burgundavia> green check and red x
[01:11] <carstenh> Burgundavia: sound really good, thanks :)
[01:12] <Burgundavia> with the words: Started
[01:12] <Burgundavia> and Stopped
[01:12] <Mez> makefile.in's shouldnt be shipped with a package should they?
[01:12] <Mez> (source) they should be built in debian/rules right
[01:12] <Burgundavia> and then a button with a stop sign that says "Stop all traffic"
[01:14] <Burgundavia> carstenh, I have to run. PM me with anything new.
[01:14] <carstenh> Burgundavia: ok, thanks a lot :)
[01:16] <Burgundavia> carstenh, np. I can't code worth a dman, but I think I can help you with your interface
[01:18] <carstenh> Burgundavia: stop firewall != stop all traffic
[01:18] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:18] <carstenh> Burgundavia: should both be implemented at your opinion?
[01:18] <Burgundavia> but the most common thing people are going to be doing is to stop all traffic
[01:19] <Burgundavia> stopping the firewall is less likely and possibly shoulnd't be implemented, due to security issues
[01:19] <Burgundavia> I would leave it out for now, and see if we get bug reports about it
[01:20] <carstenh> Burgundavia: if a service is not working imho users should be able to disable the firewall to find out if the firewall is the reason for this
[01:20] <Burgundavia> true
[01:20] <carstenh> Burgundavia: leave out "stop firewall"?
[01:20] <Burgundavia> there are also risks that the user might be just disable the firewall and forget about it
[01:21] <shackan> maybe you know zone alarm on windows, it has a special "lock all internet activity" button (apart from enable/disable the firewall)
[01:21] <Burgundavia> yes
[01:21] <shackan> maybe that's what you want
[01:21] <Burgundavia> you need to have it in a place and worded that it does not get confused with the lock firewall option
[01:21] <Burgundavia> how about lock firewall
[01:21] <Burgundavia> and turn off firewall
[01:22] <carstenh> shackan: i will search a screenshot of it on google :)
[01:22] <Burgundavia> don't bother
[01:22] <Burgundavia> zone alarm has a crap ui
[01:22] <Burgundavia> firestarter has something similar
[01:22] <Burgundavia> but I really do have to go
[01:22] <shackan> carstenh, I have to install it everytime I'm asked to do a windows reinstall, that's why I know it
[01:22] <carstenh> Burgundavia: ok, thanks. i will ping you when i have results :)
[01:23] <carstenh> shackan: :)
[01:26] <Mez> why is my automake in breezy using 1.4-p6 ?
[01:27] <bob2> because the packages are versioned now
[01:27] <bob2> if you want a more recent one, install and call it explicitly
[01:28] <Mez> ah fair enough
[01:28] <seb128> update-alternatives --config automake
[01:28] <Mez> it's ok just updating a Makefile.in and stuff
[01:28] <sabdfl> lamont: ping... do you have a firm date for that conf?
[01:28] <Mez> for a package
[01:28] <Mez> lol
[01:28] <Mez> morning sabdfl
[01:30] <sabdfl> hey Mez
[01:31] <Mez> nother late night eh?
[01:37] <sabdfl> Mez: not in brazil it isn't, *yet* ;-)
[01:38] <Mez> ah, didn't know you were over there
[01:38] <Mez> lucky you
[01:38] <Mez> if you ever find spare room in your suitcase, feel free to shove me in there :P
[02:04] <Amaranth> so, did you guys finally give up on firefox and just put 1.0.6 in hoary?
[02:07] <tseng> Amaranth: :/
[02:07] <Amaranth> tseng: bad subject? :)
[02:07] <tseng> users will consider that a precendent
[02:07] <Amaranth> well, i just got mozilla-firefox-1.0.6-0ubuntu0.1 from hoary-security
[02:07] <tseng> so did I
[02:07] <mdz> sabdfl: hey, how goes the battle?
[02:08] <Amaranth> oh, and i lost _EVERYTHING_
[02:08] <sabdfl> mdz: one small victory at a time. yours?
[02:08] <Amaranth> smeg 0.8 is set back about another month... :/
[02:08] <Amaranth> and that's only if i can get breezy running
[02:09] <Amaranth> how is breezy today, anyway?
[02:11] <tseng> Mez: will the new backports infrastructure start for hoary or breezy?
[02:11] <Amaranth> it's already setup for hoary, just needs the script run
[02:12] <tseng> Mez: it will potentially simplify mono-live cd development quite a bit
[02:18] <Mez> as Amaranth said
[02:18] <Mez> er...
[02:18] <mdz> sabdfl: likewise.  house is now officially dry as of an hour ago.
[02:18] <Mez> Failed to fetch http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/hoary-security/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz  MD5Sum mismatch
[02:23] <sabdfl> mdz: officially dry, as in, you've drnk the last of your bourbon?
[02:23] <mdz> sabdfl: I think that would have left me in a significantly worse position than I currently am
[02:24] <mdz> it has been >40C inside the house through the weekend due to the machines, and is only just returning to a livable environment
[02:24] <mdz> I am also able to read email again for that and related reasons
[02:24] <mdz> I had to shut down my server here due to heat and electrical overload
[02:26] <mdz> sabdfl: anyway, it looks like the worst is over, and it's relatively straightforward repair work from here
[02:28] <sabdfl> cool. we made good progress today with soyuz, though scott was ill and we didn't get much further on hct
[02:40] <sabdfl> night all
[03:24] <lexhider> can I get someone to confirm a firefox bug for me before a file it on bugzilla?
[03:24] <Amaranth> uh oh
[03:24] <Amaranth> yeah, i just found a firefox bug too :)
[03:24] <Amaranth> what's yours?
[03:25] <lexhider> running firefox hoary, open a couple of tabs and select any tab but the 1st one. Preferences->HomePage "set to current page".
[03:25] <lexhider> It then puts in the url for the 1st tab not the curren tab.
[03:28] <infinity> lexhider : Is this with the 1.0.2 in hoary, or the 1.0.6 in hoary-security?
[03:29] <infinity> With 1.0.6, I see a "Use Current Pages" button (yes, that's plural), and clicking on it gives me the URLs from all 3 tabs, seperated with pipes.
[03:29] <lexhider> 1.0.2, the one from hoary-security made it so I couldn't use or make bookmarks.
[03:29] <infinity> And then clicking on the Home button opens 3 tabs with all three pages.  Neat.
[03:29] <infinity> lexhider : That was the 1.0.2 security update that broke bookmarks (I think), try upgrading again.
[03:30] <lexhider> infinity: will do.
[03:31] <lexhider> D'oh, my behaviour is the same as yours, I didn't realize that it had done it for all open tabs because you can only see the start of the 1st url.
[03:32] <lexhider> I might file an upstream bug about being able to set to single current page without setting to all open tabs, thanks.
[03:48] <Amaranth> yay
[03:48] <Amaranth> update-fonts-dir, mkfontdir, mkfontscale copied from hoary before upgrading :D
[04:31] <rob^> Amaranth, does this mean X is fixed?
[04:31] <Amaranth> rob^: no, it means i cheated
[04:31] <rob^> heh
[04:32] <rob^> still using a few old packages?
[04:32] <Amaranth> no
[04:32] <Amaranth> read what i said earlier
[04:33] <rob^> yes, you got horay versions of those packages
[04:33] <infinity> s/packages/binaries/
[04:33] <rob^> ah
[05:22] <eazel7> anybody knows why all gnome apps crashes when gtkfilechooser dialog is shown?
[05:41] <calc> anyone happen to know if mozilla-thunderbird is ever going to get recompiled?
[05:41] <calc> it still needs the old libstdc++6-0
[05:47] <fabbione> morning
[05:49] <lexhider> .
[05:56] <bddebian> Hello fabbione
[06:48] <WebWiz> is there a way to fix x... i can't test my breezy packages b ecause when i apt-get upgraded X broke.. something about fixed font dir missing
[06:50] <daniels> WebWiz: #ubuntu is a better channel to ask that sort of thing in
[06:50] <WebWiz> they told me to talk in #%devel since its breezy
[06:50] <bob2> when did anyone say that?
[06:51] <WebWiz> last time i was in there ealier today
[06:53] <tritium> bob2, daniels should we have an onjoin message pointing to commonly referenced documentation?
[06:54] <bob2> ha ha ha
[06:54] <bob2> like putting it in the /topc? or the faq?
[06:54] <bob2> ;-p
[06:54] <tritium> yeah, lot of good it does, huh?
[06:54] <daniels> i think onjoin messages are way too intrusive
[06:54] <tritium> okay, fair enough.  Just thought I'd ask your opinions.
[07:17] <TerminX> tritium: maybe one of those onjoin chanserv notices
[07:18] <tritium> That's what I was asking about.  I think bob2 and daniels are right in vetoing the idea, though.  My bad.
[07:18] <daniels> mmm
[07:19] <daniels> the problem with notices is they go to the status window, half the time
[07:19] <TerminX> I thought you meant actual message, personally
[07:19] <daniels> so they sort of end up getting read less than the topic
[07:19] <TerminX> like where it pops up a window and generally annoys the piss out of people
[07:19] <daniels> but yeah, I thought you meant /msg
[07:19] <tritium> sorry, I wasn't very clear about what I meant
[07:20] <infinity> Notices are next to useless in most IRC clients.
[07:20] <infinity> Unless you're like me, and you just toss all your messages in your active window, thus causing you to contemplate suicide each time you use freenode.
[07:20] <TerminX> heh
[07:21] <daniels> tritium: no worries
[07:21] <tritium> It was just an idea...but I do retract it :)
[07:22] <TerminX> it wasn't a bad idea... hell, if just one person reads it and it answered their question so they don't end up bothering folks then it was a good idea :p
[07:22] <tritium> :)
[07:23] <TerminX> s/answered/answers
[07:23] <infinity> Assuming that anyone will read anything, when they've clearly skipped the google step to come bother people on IRC, is a bit optimistic.
[07:24] <infinity> (Well, okay, some perform the Google step, but most prefer to just ask someone directly for All The Answers)
[07:25] <TerminX> infinity: ugh, all of my "friends" do that to me.
[07:25] <TerminX> I don't see what's so hard about Googling.. meh, some people
[07:26] <infinity> My friends once nicknamed me "The user-friendly interface to Google", because I could always find the answer faster than them, using the same methods I kept insisting they should use.
[07:26] <tritium> heh
[07:26] <infinity> Eventually, I just started ignoring questions for a day or two, until I was pretty sure they'd have found the answer already.
[07:26] <TerminX> that sounds about like the situation I often find myself in, yeah
[07:26] <HiddenWolf> infinity, I hear you
[07:27] <infinity> Then, shortly after that, I drifted off-topic in a devel channel, aplogised profusely, and went back to work.
[07:27] <TerminX> hah
[07:27] <HiddenWolf> I'm known as a news junkie. Whenever they want to know something, it's "Wolf will know" :P
[07:28] <HiddenWolf> And I went to such pains to break my addiction to cnn. :P
[07:28] <TerminX> I have /., Y! news, CNN and BBC RSS feeds.. and I check them all ;_;
[07:29] <bob2> tritium: oh, no veto, I'm just cynical about how well it would work
[07:29] <HiddenWolf> I'm old school, I actually browse there, to check it out, or turn on tv.
[07:29] <tritium> bob2, with good reason, I'd say.
[07:30] <bob2> daniels: does http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~timl/ubuntu/README look like it'll at least somewhat unbreak X?
[07:30] <tritium> ah, you got the same query from timl?
[07:31] <bob2> yaeh
[07:32] <daniels> bob2: one case, yeah
[07:32] <daniels> but not comprehensively
[07:32] <daniels> and mkfontdir will be going in an hour or two
[07:32] <bob2> ah, rock
[07:32] <tritium> nice work, daniels :)
[07:32] <daniels> ta
[07:33] <TerminX> will X work after that, or is there even more?
[07:33] <daniels> x will generally work after that, in the right set of circumstances
[07:33] <daniels> e.g. fresh upgrades from hoary
[07:34] <TerminX> how about upgrades from -36? :p
[07:34] <daniels> people who have tracked breezy get a whole new world of pain because of some misguided attempts by xlibs to delete XKB data
[07:34] <daniels> right
[07:34] <daniels> see: world of pain
[07:34] <daniels> i'm going to send out a pretty comprehensive email covering how to unscrew yourself
[07:34] <highvoltage> daniels: as I've just learned :)
[07:34] <TerminX> daniels: to ubuntu-devel I assume?
[07:35] <highvoltage> actually, it complained that the directories weren't empty, so i manually deleted all the directories (obviously a bad idea)
[07:35] <daniels> TerminX: -users and -devel
[07:35] <daniels> highvoltage: heh, right
[07:35] <daniels> highvoltage: sudo dpkg -i --force-confmiss /var/cache/apt/archives/xkeyboard-config_0.5-3_all.deb
[07:36] <highvoltage> daniels: thanks!!!
[07:37] <infinity> I think I'm going to have children with ccache.
[07:37] <infinity> Yessir.
[07:37] <bob2> hot infinitytridge babies
[07:38] <infinity> No, no, not with Tridge, with ccache itself.
[07:38] <infinity> I sent Tridge a pizza back in 1996, he's not getting more from me.
[07:51] <clerax> #securityhack big french hacking community alsoo www.securityhack.net FRENCH p0w@ =)
[07:52] <Aegir> Hmm
[07:52] <trulux> ah, he left by himself. N1c3
[07:56] <highvoltage> cool. now i only have the mkfontdir problem.
[08:02] <daniels> 'french powat'?
[08:03] <Burgundavia> indeed
[08:04] <Aegir> That powat! Fear the powat!
[08:14] <tritium> night
[08:34] <Burgundavia> funny wiki page, what mark wanted for Hoary --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarksHoaryGoals
[08:39] <trulux> Burgundavia: I find the "makes me very nervous" bit about SELinux deployment funny indeed
[08:42] <bob2> did kinnison/thom/scott's init speedups go into hoary?
[08:44] <Treenaks> bob2: a few did, I guess
[09:22] <highvoltage> would it work if i copy the mkfontdir script from a hoary system?
[09:29] <pitti> Morning
[09:30] <pvanhoof> highvoltage, yes
[09:30] <Burgundavia> pitti, you are the talk of the town on the forums. And the .6 security release breaks all those fancy backports
[09:30] <pvanhoof> I did this, and it worked .. highvoltage
[09:30] <highvoltage> pvanhoof: kewl, i'll try that. thanks
[09:31] <pitti> Burgundavia: it's not my fault that the backport guys messed up the package name
[09:31] <pvanhoof> highvoltage, just dpkg-reconfigure xfonts-base once mkfontdir is installed
[09:31] <Burgundavia> pitti, hey, no skin off my back
[09:31] <pitti> Burgundavia: btw, I didn't know about this, otherwise I had warned them
[09:31] <pvanhoof> note, however, highvoltage, that the keyboard settings will not work. It always fallsback to "us"  here (whereas I have us_intl)
[09:32] <pvanhoof> other than that I don't have a lot problems with current X11 in breezy
[09:32] <pitti> Burgundavia: how did that break in particular? I mean, it's just a new version of the same package, same dependencies, etc
[09:32] <Burgundavia> pitti, the security package will not install without removing the backport and then reinstalling the secuirty package
[09:32] <Burgundavia> nothing you could have done by telling them about it
[09:32] <pitti> Burgundavia: but if you have the backport, why would you want the security update?
[09:33] <pitti> it shouldn't be automatically installed?
[09:33] <Burgundavia> the system forces the security update upon you
[09:33] <Burgundavia> personally, i would want offiical packages to override backports even if they are the same versin
[09:41] <pitti> Burgundavia: hm, I still not understand. The problem is that the hoary-security version overwrites the backport, or that it doesn't?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> pitti, the security version does not overwrite the backport
[09:46] <bob2> and the backport is called firefox
[09:53] <daniels> facepalm
[09:59] <pitti> bob2: that's what I meant by "screwed up"
[09:59] <bob2> ah
[10:10] <thom> bob2: all the useful ones did
[10:11] <bob2> thom: ah, cool
[10:12] <daniels> yeah
[10:12] <daniels> a lot of stuff got its order shuffled around
[10:12] <daniels> and X's loader is 27% less crap
[10:12] <Treenaks> \o/
[10:14] <thom> plus readahead
[10:14] <thom> which we need more magic for at some point
[10:16] <daniels> yeah
[10:17] <daniels> getting the list of files opened at boot from a wide range of desktops would rock
[10:19] <sivang> mornig all
[10:21] <Treenaks> hey siv
[10:23] <sivang> yo Treenaks :) funny how you know the shortcut name of mine, just like people say it in hebrew
[10:23] <\sh> morning
[10:23] <Treenaks> sivang: heh.. it just seems natural :)
[10:26] <doko> daniels: any estimate for a working xmkmf ?
[10:26] <thom> daniels: being able to configure it automagically per machine would rock harder
[10:28] <\sh> doko: u need it as well..good ;-)
[10:30] <\sh> infinity: ping
[10:32] <infinity> pong.
[10:33] <daniels> doko: not hugely, have other stuff on my TODO ahead of it
[10:33] <\sh> infinity: please check xchm...it's depwait on libwxgtk2.5-dev but I've uploaded with libwxgtk2.4-dev...
[10:33] <daniels> since relatively little stuff uses xmkmf these days
[10:33] <daniels> maybe you could take this opportunity to kick your build system into 1983 ;)
[10:33] <infinity> \sh : Okay, will check it in 5 minutes.  Just doing some hardware maintenance.
[10:33] <\sh> infinity: take your time...I just saw the mess..thx :)
[10:37] <ogra> seb128, http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-July/043841.html
[10:37] <doko> daniels: please make it high priority. it's a build dependency for OOo2, and for breakages, we could not build OO for the last three weeks
[10:37] <doko> s/for/for other/
[10:37] <ogra> seb128, isnt thekey set in the breezy package ? i wonder where they backport from ...
[10:41] <daniels> doko: sorry, but getting upgrades and from-scratch installs working is more important, to be honest
[10:41] <daniels> doko: if you need to build it locally, use an old version of xutils
[10:41] <daniels> getting it working on the buildds is very, very difficult
[10:41] <daniels> and it also only affects one or two packages, rather than everyone using it
[10:42] <j^> daniels why dont you change the default background of X to be black(or some solid gray)? adding -br to gdm.conf would also help, but that does not happen eather.
[10:42] <doko> well, maybe I just include xutils in the oo2 source then
[10:43] <daniels> doko: how rampant is xmkmf usage? usually it's only invoked to get one variable or so
[10:44] <daniels> j^: -br works fine, I just tested it then.
[10:45] <bob2> black would be pretty obnoxious when trying to debug if it's starting or not
[10:45] <daniels> as for gdm.conf, I don't know as I don't maintain gdm
[10:45] <seb128> ogra: this mail says that the key is not set
[10:45] <daniels> but ISTR it was at some point
[10:45] <j^> daniels right it works fine, but why is it not the default,
[10:45] <j^> or a gray
[10:46] <ogra> seb128, yes, i thought thats done in postinst of our package
[10:46] <daniels> also, the stipple is a fantastic calibration pattern for monitors
[10:46] <daniels> j^: i don't know; as I said, I don't maintain gdm.
[10:46] <j^> but this zigzag thing hurts
[10:46] <seb128> ogra: what? the postinst register the schemas, but serpentine has no schemas
[10:46] <seb128> gdm uses -br
[10:46] <ogra> seb128, err... ok....
[10:47] <j^> seb128 right now it did not, i had to add that again to gdm.conf
[10:47] <seb128> j^: it does
[10:48] <j^> ok
[10:48] <ogra> seb128, do you already have a plan how to bring all the xscreensaver hacks into gnome-screensaver ?
[10:48] <seb128> j^: you probably have changed your file and since that's a conffile keep your changes rather than the package ones
[10:48] <seb128> ogra: what hacks?
[10:48] <j^> seb128 gmdconfig changes that file
[10:48] <seb128> j^: the correspond patch is debian/patches/01_xconfigoptions.patch
[10:49] <ogra> seb128, they (or jwz) call ll the screensavers "hacks" sorry for th term :)
[10:49] <seb128> j^: whatever change the file, once changed you use your version and not the package one
[10:49] <seb128> ogra: the plan would be to split xscreensaver to a binary and a sreensaver package
[10:50] <ogra> seb128, hmm, i'm not sure if thats easily possible
[10:50] <seb128> why?
[10:50] <infinity> ogra : Sure it is.
[10:50] <seb128> that's trivial
[10:50] <ogra> oh, ok...
[10:50] <seb128> just have to update the debian/control and make a .install
[10:51] <ogra> i just thought you had to put tem all in the src dir...
[10:51] <ogra> since single screensavers require single compile oiptions that should be makefile fun ...
[10:52] <doko> daniels: used in some third party sources, which are unpacked, patched and built during the ooo build
[10:52] <seb128> ogra??
[10:52] <daniels> doko: which ones?
[10:52] <seb128> ogra: there is no change to make to the source package, just to the binaries ...
[10:52] <ogra> seb128, ah, it just grabs the binarys ?
[10:52] <seb128> grumpf
[10:53] <ogra> ok..
[10:53] <seb128> basically you make install to debian/tmp
[10:53] <seb128> and move file with .install files
[10:53] <seb128> you move them wherever you want
[10:53] <doko> daniels: I have to work around the primary configure checks to see which ones ...
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: is it true that /tmp represents the to be installed on system's / ?
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: (I read that somewhere)
[10:54] <seb128> I don't get the question
[10:54] <daniels> doko: grep -r xmkmf?
[10:54] <daniels> sivang: not quite
[10:54] <ogra> seb128, sure, but we either need a dumbed down xscreensaver package that only contains the "hacks" or put them into gnome-creensaver
[10:54] <bob2> sivang: in the installer, or do you mean debian/tmp during a package build?
[10:54] <sivang> seb128: /tmp inside the .deb maps to / on the system the binary pkg is being installed on
[10:55] <seb128> ogra: split xscreensaver to -bin and -data
[10:55] <sivang> bob2: inside a binary package that was built
[10:55] <thom> sivang: NO
[10:55] <ogra> seb128, ah... that was the question...
[10:55] <seb128> sivang: I've not tried to put /tmp to a package yet
[10:55] <seb128> sivang: that doesn't seems to be a good idea
[10:55] <daniels> seb128: better than /usr/sbin
[10:55] <bob2> sivang: no, data.tar.gz is relative to /
[10:55] <sivang> daniels: could you please explain?
[10:56] <daniels> sivang: debian/packagename/ contains all the files (relative to /) for packagename
[10:56] <daniels> the special case is that debian/tmp is read if there's only one binary package
[10:57] <thom> (if you're using debhelper)
[10:58] <sivang> thom: what happens if I'm using cdbs, for instance? does it act differently?
[10:58] <daniels> thom: let's assume that everyone except piotr is
[10:58] <infinity> cdbs uses debhelper.
[10:58] <thom> sivang: you burn in the utmost fire of hell
[10:58] <daniels> sivang: the usual mode of cdbs involves using debhelper, but thom has a point also
[10:59] <sivang> come to think of it, almost all the gnome pkgs in ubuntu use cdbs...is it that bad?
[10:59] <infinity> thom : To be fair, I think the "utmost fires of hell" are reserved for yada usage.  cdbs is probably somewhere slightly less deep, but still uncomfortably hot.
[10:59] <thom> sivang: seb128 signed a pact in blood
[10:59] <sivang> hehehe
[10:59] <thom> infinity: no, yada is a personal meeting with the Shrike
[11:00] <sivang> thom: why is it so bad?
[11:00] <bob2> unfucking yadaed packages is painful, too
[11:00] <doko> daniels: As I said, the tarballs are unpacked and patched by the upstream build process
[11:00] <daniels> doko: zgrep -r :)
[11:01] <daniels> otoh, dbs is love
[11:01] <doko> that does work recursivly and and zip files?
[11:02] <bob2> sivang: e.g. lyx
[11:02] <daniels> doko: zgrep xmkmf $(find ./ -name \*gz)
[11:02] <bob2> sivang: everything is in debian/package, which gets untangled by yada at build time
[11:03] <sivang> bob2: hmm, no man for yada, is yada a tool?
[11:03] <bob2> yes
[11:03] <bob2> of the devil
[11:03] <thom> sivang: DON'T EVEN LOOK AT YADA
[11:04] <Treenaks> apt-get install yada
[11:06] <sivang> ah! so that's the DBS, without the C :)
[11:07] <daniels> dbs is love
[11:07] <thom> dude. it's all about whig+pen
[11:08] <sivang> daniels: pretty cool, everything clutters up in debian/packages and you are free of writing a rules file?
[11:08] <daniels> sivang: err ... dbs is nothing like either of those two
[11:08] <Treenaks> sivang: daniels apparently has a strange definition of "love"
[11:08] <thom> sivang: no, that's yada. DBS is entirely different
[11:08] <daniels> thom: meh, I can't get past the ability to throw away and reconstruct my build tree without touching debian/ etc for the monolith
[11:09] <daniels> for more sensibly-sized packages I just use dpatch
[11:09] <daniels> which will become W&P when it's feasible
[11:09] <sivang> thom: so DBS is plain debhelper stuff with a regulra debian/ structure?
[11:10] <daniels> sivang: yes, except the source gets unpacked from a tarball in the source package and patches applied from debian/patches
[11:10] <daniels> so your actual code is in build-tree/xc/, for example
[11:10] <Treenaks> so your tarball just contains a directory of upstream tarballs
[11:10] <daniels> right
[11:10] <daniels> and the debian/ directory
[11:11] <sivang> ah, that is one approach pitti really likes
[11:11] <azeem> surprisingly, that's the same for gcc, though it uses dpatch
[11:11] <seb128> you can also use cdbs and tarball.ml
[11:11] <sivang> seb128: hmm, I think that's what his using acutally IIRC :)
[11:11] <thom> pitti has been known to patch debian/ so he doesn't count :-)
[11:11] <daniels> seb128: yes, but that involves using cdbs
[11:12] <daniels> yeah, patching debian/ from debian/patches -> total crack
[11:12] <sivang> daniels: how should one go about patching debian/ ?
[11:12] <sivang> daniels: (or should he not ??)
[11:12] <daniels> sivang: DON'T
[11:12] <daniels> EVER
[11:12] <thom> sivang: one shouldn't. EVER
[11:12] <azeem> just do debian/control.in and use sed
[11:13] <daniels> i think pitti patched debian/patches from debian/patches once
[11:13] <daniels> that was crack
[11:13] <daniels> azeem: i know! then we could automatically generate build-depends
[11:13] <daniels> azeem: THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME
[11:13] <bob2> hahahaha
[11:13] <ogra> lol
[11:13] <sivang> heheh
[11:14] <sivang> thom: however, cdbs allows seb to do gnome packaging in remarkable timeing, isn't that a plus?
[11:16] <daniels> sivang: he can do it just as fast with a normal debian/rules
[11:16] <daniels> sivang: it's just that seb really likes pain
[11:16] <sivang> LOLs
[11:17] <sivang> daniels: but he would have to replicate file all over and over again, no?
[11:17] <daniels> he has to copy a template debian/rules anyway
[11:17] <daniels> doesn't make much difference whether or not it's cdbs
[11:17] <daniels> trust me, I will end up maintaining more packages than Seb before breezy's out
[11:18] <sivang> daniels: using plain DBS ? (and using upstream tarballs)
[11:19] <azeem> DBS should be outlawed, Ubuntu missed a great opportunity here
[11:19] <daniels> sivang: nope, just normal debhelper with dpatch
[11:19] <sivang> daniels: eh, I like dpatch, it's nice for keeping order in patches
[11:20] <daniels> that's what I'm using atm
[11:23] <seb128> simple-patchsys rock :)
[11:23] <seb128> daniels: I will help you to win on the packages game ... do you want to maintain gtk ? ;)
[11:24] <daniels> simple-patchsys killed and ate my dog
[11:24] <daniels> it slit its throat and turned it into a pez dispenser
[11:24] <daniels> simple-patchsys has no mercy
[11:25] <ogra> yes, cdbs is a great frontend to cp if you want to package icon themes.... (i never use it for anything else, are there other usecases ?) :)
[11:25] <daniels> seb128: no way dude
[11:25] <daniels> seb128: the whole plan behind modularisation is that I can make you maintain half the crap in the client-side libraries
[11:27] <Burgundavia> seb128, ogra you in contact with rodigo?
[11:28] <ogra> Burgundavia, which rodrigo ?
[11:28] <Burgundavia> ogra, rodigo moya, of gnome fame
[11:28] <seb128> Burgundavia: not a lot, standard IRC, why?
[11:28] <ogra> Burgundavia, seb128 rather then me
[11:29] <Burgundavia> seb128, ogra planet.gnome.org has somethign about gnome-screensaver right now from him
[11:31] <seb128> so the code is fine according to suse guys, nice
[11:32] <sivang> suse suppports gnome now? interesting :)
[11:32] <seb128> that's not news
[11:32] <seb128> ximian, gtk#, etc
[11:32] <sivang> eh right
[11:32] <ogra> seb128, haha.... werent they the guys that just stuck gtk on top of the xscreensaver lock dialog ignoring the security problems ?
[11:33] <Treenaks> sivang: well, in 9.3 it still really feels like the "second choice"...
[11:33] <pitti> daniels: patching debian/patches from debian/patches was not really intentionally :-)
[11:33] <sivang> daniels: anyway, after I finish with patching desktop apps for lp integration, I will seek the ways of the holy ones, for now I will continue to change cdbs packages :)
[11:34] <azeem> sivang: cdbs is the way of the holy ones
[11:34] <sivang> azeem: hehe
[11:34] <thom> cdbs will be the way of the hole-ey ones after i finish with them
[11:36] <pitti> ogra: they are really smart, believe me
[11:36] <\sh> ogra: that u can't say...is it not "good quality german work"? ,-)
[11:36] <ogra> pitti, they found putting gtk on top of the lock dialog secure... ignoring all voices that said different...
[11:36] <daniels> \sh: s/work/engineering/
[11:37] <ogra> pitti, thats not really trustable imho... if even upstream warns you all the time
[11:37] <\sh> daniels: "work" cause the germans are workers ,-) the german engineers are all US guys now ,-)
[11:38] <infinity> \sh : Dude, do you only have one eye?
[11:38] <\sh> grmpf..I'm too sarcastic this morning ,-)
[11:38] <pitti> ogra: ok, that's crack; my experience is wrt their vuln patches
[11:38] <\sh> infinity: looks like...why?
[11:38] <infinity> \sh : Pure curiosity, based on your smiley.
[11:38] <\sh> infinity: it's "ironic smiley"
[11:39] <\sh> or was it sarcastic, with one eye totally gone?
[11:39] <daniels> it's a sarcastic pirate
[11:39] <daniels> AHR
[11:39] <ogra> heh
[11:41] <\sh> i should clean my laptop keyboard...with this tobacco inside, I can role a cigarette *shrugs*
[11:42] <mvo> is nautilus supposed to come up in browser mode now? it does that for me after a dist-upgrade
[11:42] <Burgundavia> mvo, yes
[11:42] <lexhider> mvo: yeah
[11:42] <infinity> Changing nautilus behaviour with every release is the Way and the Light.
[11:42] <HrdwrBoB> haha
[11:42] <ogra> *shudder*
[11:43] <lexhider> mvo: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=8516
[11:43] <daniels> infinity: s/with/immediately before/
[11:43] <infinity> Hey, Microsoft managed to make Explorer scarier every time I opened it, surely we can one-up them.
[11:45] <HiddenWolf> infinity: they just announced they'd lock upgrades to illegal users. Get your cd's out.
[11:45] <daniels> infinity is not short of CDs.
[11:46] <seb128> mvo: hi. What about reading the changelog stuff? It's made for that ... :p
[11:49] <infinity> How did I manage to debootstrap a hoary chroot with no apt-get binary in it?
[11:49] <infinity> No apt package at all, in fact.
[11:49] <infinity> Neat.
[11:54] <daniels> infinity: special
[11:56] <mvo> seb128: heh :) who needs changelogs when there is a fine channel like this available (/me ducks)
[11:57] <daniels> me too
[11:57] <daniels> '* New xorg upload.'
[11:57] <daniels> '* Fixed some shit.'
[11:57] <infinity> daniels : Too verbose.
[11:57] <daniels> '* <3samxxx'
[11:58] <infinity> Something more like "package (1.2.3) breezy; urgency=low\n\n * Take it\n\n Adam Conrad<EMAIL_ADDRESS>`date --rfc`" is what's going in all my packages from now on.
[11:58] <[SemTeX] > daniels: does it fix the "crash after login" thing?
[11:59] <Mez> daniels, arent changelo entrys like " THANKYOU LIBTOOL.   vague enough for yo
[11:59] <daniels>    * New upstream version:
[11:59] <daniels>      - More work on Win32 support.
[11:59] <daniels> seb128: your changelogs are the suck
[11:59] <daniels> [SemTeX] : the what now?
[12:00] <daniels> Mez: that wasn't vague, it was accompanied with a full description of what I changed before the expression of love
[12:00] <Mez> hush
[12:00] <Mez> lol
[12:00] <Mez> I did have to stop myself laughing when I saw this though
[12:00] <Mez> "  * Fix cat-walks-across-keyboard attack in debian/control."
   Sold.
[12:09] <HiddenWolf> daniels: how can you hate a cat?
[12:09] <daniels> HiddenWolf: it breaks my debian/control files
[12:09] <daniels> cat + vim -> stabbings
[12:09] <Treenaks> daniels: use ed
[12:09] <daniels> Treenaks: much less obscure
[12:09] <infinity> Man, if your cat can use a modal editor, I'd be giving it extra treats, not stabbing it.
[12:10] <infinity> I've seen grown men break down and cry because they couldn't figure out how to exit vi.
[12:10] <ogra> daniels, get a dog for you keyboard that drives away the cat :)
[12:10] <pitti> Treenaks: what did you upload?
[12:10] <daniels> infinity: my little sister can use vim
[12:11] <infinity> daniels : As a bonus, dogs are too stupid to even figure out nano.
[12:11] <daniels> infinity: as in, she can make things happen.  but not usefully.
[12:11] <Treenaks> pitti: build-dep fix for lirc (add libusb-dev)
[12:11] <daniels> infinity: my dog now prevents my cat from using vim.  that's far better than breaking my packages.
[12:11] <HiddenWolf> ogra, sudo apt-get install watchdog ?
[12:11] <ogra> heh
[12:11] <Burgundavia> is someone going to fix bogofilter, so you don't waste more cpu cycles on it?
[12:12] <ogra> Burgundavia, cpu cycles on buildds are cheap
[12:12] <infinity> Burgundavia : The thought had crossed my mind, but first I want to print all the failed build logs and make a mud hut out of them.
[12:12] <infinity> I started with smaller ambitions (a hat), but they keep coming...
[12:13] <infinity> I may just write a procmail recipe to drop the build logs on the floor, rather than fixing the package.  It is the path of least resistance, afterall.
[12:13] <infinity> Also, some of this may be sarcasm.
[12:13] <Treenaks> infinity: why not write a script that goes out and fixes the package for you?
[12:14] <infinity> procmail's even worse at fixing debian/control than daniels's cat is.
[12:14] <infinity> And buildd admins only know procmail, so I guess I'm screwed.
[12:15] <bob2> you use procmail to generate debian/control?
[12:15] <daniels> bob2: lamont probably does
[12:15] <daniels> somewhere in there
[12:15] <infinity> Wouldn't be surprised.
[12:15] <bob2> after running rcs with some undocumented option over it all
[12:15] <daniels> nothing wrong with running rcs over your repository
[12:16] <infinity> ... If it's an RCS repository.
[12:16] <bob2> there is to the people who have to then import it
[12:16] <infinity> I've seen people use RCS to do some pretty weird out-of-the-box things.
[12:18] <ogra>  dh_make -c gpl
[12:18] <ogra> Option c is ambiguous (cdbs, copyright)
[12:18] <ogra> huh ???
[12:19] <ogra> grmpf... someone should fix that
[12:19] <Kamion> mvo: did that aptitude progress patch ever get uploaded?
[12:21] <mvo> Kamion: the progress reporting for apt? it's part of libapt and needs approval from mdz. otherwise I think it's ready
[12:21] <Kamion> mdz: over to you :)
[12:23] <mvo> Kamion: I'll have a look at it again today just to be certain that the code is ok. how urgent is it?
[12:24] <Kamion> well, I'd like to do stuff that depends on it for feature freeze
[12:29] <daniels> The X.Org monolithic tree
[12:29] <daniels> Lead Maintainer:
[12:29] <daniels> Robert Collins
[12:29] <daniels> if launchpad has done one thing for me
[12:29] <daniels> it's been to allow me to assign all my bugs to lifeless
[12:29] <bob2> hahaha
[12:30] <bob2> I get gftp bugs emaield to me
[12:31] <pitti> Hi jdthood
[12:45] <sivang> Hey pitti
[12:45] <pitti> Hi sivang
[12:50] <daniels> argh, god I hate libXfont
[12:50] <daniels> if you're building a client library, build a client library
[12:50] <daniels> if you're building modules for the Xorg server, build modules for the Xorg server
[12:50] <daniels> combining the two, with a healthy dose of internal FreeType headers stolen from their tree, SUCKS
[12:55] <ogra> hmm, sounds like the xpm situation in xscreensaver :)
[12:57] <daniels> WHAT?
[12:58] <infinity> Please tell me xscreensaver doesn't statically link to a private xpm...
[12:58] <ogra> daniels, jwz puts xpm functions into xscreensaver to not depend on libxpm, because he considers this unsafe
[12:59] <ogra> the fun stuff is, that debian changed the logo and just enabled a libxpm dep again... now both is in
[01:00] <bob2> hahaha
[01:00] <daniels> COCK COCK COCK
[01:00] <ogra> but the packae misses the dep apparently see #12888
[01:00] <Mez> o_O
[01:00] <daniels> libxpm.  the library with the secutity vulnerabilities.
[01:00] <TerminX> is the Ubuntu style unlock screen going to be patched back into xscreensaver?
[01:00] <Mez> daniels, after those mle prostitues again?>
[01:00] <ogra> TerminX, we seem to switch to gnome-screensaver
[01:01] <TerminX> hmmm
[01:01] <pitti> Hi ajmitch
[01:01] <TerminX> version 0.0.8-0.. how reassuring ;\
[01:01] <Mez> is breezy safe to use yet ?
[01:01] <bob2> no
[01:02] <Mez> whats wrong with it atthe moment then
[01:02] <TerminX> ogra: why would there be a switch to something which appears featureless?
[01:03] <\sh> *phew* that was a lunch
[01:03] <ogra> TerminX, it integrates with the desktop and has a11y and i18n support... something you will never see in xscreensavers lock screen
[01:03] <TerminX> it's not even in main..
[01:04] <ogra> TerminX, we'll make a post to -devel to discuss its default inclusion soon
[01:04] <TerminX> it only has one screensaver!
[01:05] <ogra> that will change quickly
[01:05] <ogra> it will use all xscreensaver hacks that are here now... its just a change of the frontend
[01:05] <ogra> so all functionallity wil stay as in xscreensaver
[01:06] <TerminX> will this new frontend actually have configure buttons?  it certainly doesn't have them now
[01:06] <ogra> good question
[01:06] <TerminX> it's funny, gnome-screensaver-preferences.. has no preferences
[01:06] <ogra> seb128, whats planned in this direction ? most of the single screensavers have additional options
[01:08] <\sh> this is annoying..I'm typing sql statements in orcale sql plus console...but why do we have such nice frontends...when they don't work properly..sometimes I'm wondering about my company..:(
[01:09] <ogra> \sh, there is tora and toad....
[01:09] <ogra> depending on yourOS
[01:09] <\sh> ogra: it's CSR
[01:09] <sivang> \sh: you ate a good steak? ;-)
[01:10] <ogra> \sh, heh
[01:10] <\sh> ogra: and it's more broken then Xorg in breezy..no joke...artyom don't do anything at all to prevent leaving username fragments inside of oracle...
[01:10] <ogra> \sh, yes, i know...
[01:11] <ogra> \sh, it's always beeen like that... live ith it or get a better job ;)
[01:11] <sivang> \sh: you work for oracle?
[01:11] <sivang> ogra: what's tora?
[01:11] <ogra> sivang, nope, he works for my ex company...
[01:11] <sivang> ogra: eh :)
[01:12] <ogra> sivang, a oracle gui tool
[01:12] <sivang> and CSR?
[01:12] <ogra> sivang, a oracle gui tool
[01:12] <ogra> :)
[01:12] <\sh> a oracle web gui tool company developed by Java Architect (tm)
[01:13] <ogra> inhouse developed
[01:13] <ogra> by cluesless people
[01:13] <sivang> lol
[01:13] <\sh> by a java architect ,->
[01:13] <ogra> but thats OT here :)
[01:13] <sivang> \sh: I got the point :)
[01:14] <\sh> ogra: no not OT..we will switch our ISP DNS servers to ubuntu :)
[01:14] <sivang> ogra: we made Burgundavia really  hungry last night (ne abd \sh)
[01:14] <ogra> really ???
[01:14] <\sh> ogra: and kicking solaris + sparc out of the halls
[01:14] <ogra> \sh, youre joking...
[01:14] <\sh> ogra: nope
[01:14] <ogra> WOW
[01:15] <\sh> ogra: it's on the todo of steven carr and he requested my help :)
[01:15] <ogra> heh
[01:15] <ogra> \sh, tell him about canonical support contracts ;)
[01:15] <seb128> ogra: that would be a question for upstream
[01:16] <\sh> ogra: i did :) and I think ralf is interessted :)
[01:16] <ogra> thats awesome news...., germanys second biggest cable provider switching to ubuntu is worth a headline ;)
[01:17] <ogra> \sh, point rim to me if he needs a point of contact, i know he trusts me
[01:17] <ogra> s/rim/him
[01:19] <\sh> ogra: *psshht*
[01:20] <ogra> :)
[01:20] <\sh> ogra: this won't be a big deal :)
[01:20] <\sh> ogra: and the guys upstairs, no they can kick me, when something's not working ;(
[01:20] <\sh> s/no/know/
[01:21] <ogra> i know, but they always want support contracts :)
[01:21] <ogra> as fallback... they are "managers" you know... i sat in this office long enough to know the politics :)
[01:21] <\sh> ogra: they bought because of your system a full redhat enterprise edition with 3 years support contract...they didn't get one perl package running on your old machine *lol*
[01:22] <ogra> lol
[01:22] <\sh> ogra: and believe me, when I heard this, I was falling from my chair...
[01:23] <mvo> \sh++ for ubuntu :)
[01:23] <ajmitch> hi mvo, ogra, \sh :)
[01:23] <mvo> hey ajmitch
[01:23] <sivang> hey ajmitch
[01:23] <sivang> \sh: that's pretty cool to hear, Stephan
[01:24] <\sh> hey mvo :) ajmitch :)
[01:24] <ogra> they wanted to write ma a unique trouble ticket system for them, to save money... than they bought HW for 10000 and decided debian was not good enough as base *grin* now they have a system that they could even have bought cheaper for the price of oracle/readhat/HW support licenses
[01:24] <ogra> s/they wanted to write ma/they wanted me to write a/
[01:25] <fabbione> pitti: ping?
[01:25] <pitti> fabbione: here
[01:26] <fabbione> pitti: i am checking that patch
[01:26] <fabbione> and there is a possible flow in it
[01:26] <fabbione> basically pid = last + 1; always ensure that the next pid is different from one already allocated.
[01:26] <fabbione> the check is simple..
[01:26] <pitti> trulux: ^
[01:26] <fabbione> with pid = random()
[01:26] <fabbione> there is no such check
[01:27] <\sh> can somebody kick wings3d again to the buildds? thx :)
[01:27] <fabbione> so i might have process foo with pid X
[01:27] <fabbione> after N randomization i can get that pid again
[01:27] <fabbione> but nothing is protecting it
[01:28] <fabbione> the pid reusage is based on a 16bit rotation
[01:28] <fabbione> if there are more than 2**64 pids the kernel refuses to start the process
[01:28] <fabbione> so last + 1 is always safe
[01:29] <fabbione> +if (pid == pid_max)
[01:29] <fabbione> +pid = pid_max - 1;
[01:29] <fabbione> should really be:
[01:29] <seb128> infinity: could you push the buildds to retry file-roller sound-juicer zenity with gnome-doc-utils 0.3.1-0ubuntu2?
[01:29] <fabbione> ops
[01:29] <fabbione> if (pid >= pid_max)
[01:30] <fabbione> pid = RESERVED_PIDS;
[01:30] <fabbione> it's a duplicate check
[01:30] <trulux> fabbione: you're missing the check in get_random_id()
[01:30] <trulux> fabbione: slow down, and read twice :)
[01:30] <infinity> seb128, \sh : In the words of daniels, "I live to give."
[01:30] <fabbione> there is no call to get_random_int()
[01:30] <fabbione> id
[01:30] <fabbione> it calls _int()
[01:31] <seb128> infinity: thanks :)
[01:31] <trulux> fabbione: pid = 1 + (get_random_int() % pid_max);
[01:31] <\sh> infinity: *hugs*
[01:31] <trulux> fabbione: are you sure you don't miss something?
[01:31] <trulux> fabbione: I've tested it, and nayone using grsecurity has tested it
[01:32] <daniels> AUTOCONSDF SDFl;km,asdrw3e446
[01:32] <fabbione> trulux: what if in 2 different calls get_random_int will return the same value?
[01:32] <fabbione> and pid from first call is still running?
[01:33] <trulux> fabbione: check the source of get_random_int
[01:33] <jmore9> OIN #ubuntu-devel
[01:33] <pitti> fabbione: how is that check performed without the patch? merely incrementing it by 1 doesn't gurarantee that the pid is still free either
[01:33] <fabbione> trulux: it's one line...
[01:33] <fabbione>         return secure_ip_id(current->pid + jiffies);
[01:34] <pitti> fabbione: or is "last" always guaranteed to be the highest pid ever?
[01:34] <fabbione> pitti: reading pid.c there is no obvious check to me
[01:34] <trulux> fabbione: "it's one line", that's a smart statement about it. it returns a value returned by another function mixing jiffies with the current pid
[01:35] <trulux> fabbione: check RESERVED_PIDS source
[01:35] <trulux> fabbione: also check the TCP ISN and ID randomization used for it
[01:35] <trulux> also, last but not least, thinkign about the resfreshing time of get_random_int()
[01:35] <fabbione> trulux: given your patch is based on .11 and i am looking at .12, i sort of need to make sure we are reading the same code
[01:35] <trulux> another wrong thing
[01:35] <pitti> trulux: what does the refreshing time have to do with that?
[01:35] <trulux> I'm using a staked patches directory
[01:35] <trulux> the directory name means nothing
[01:36] <pitti> trulux: the point is, at some time somebody has to check that the pid is not already allocated
[01:36] <fabbione> trulux: and how am i supposed to know that?
[01:36] <trulux> get_radom_int(9 is part of Arjan van de Ven's ASLR infrastructure
[01:36] <trulux> merged since 2.6.11-mm1
[01:36] <fabbione> trulux: i don't have access to your hd
[01:36] <fabbione> nor to your mind
[01:36] <fabbione> start naming the patches correctly like everybody else does
[01:37] <trulux> fabbione: man, you maintain kenrel packages. you should know what akpm's says about patches.... what about his patches named a/... b/...?
[01:37] <fabbione> and i won't have the issue of digging into details
[01:37] <daniels> autoconf has a really strange metric for 'unchanged'.
[01:37] <daniels> i.e., 'exists'.
[01:37] <trulux> fabbione: sincerously, it's a dead end
[01:37] <fabbione> trulux: that's why people write [PATCH 2.6.12]  foo bar
[01:38] <fabbione> and seriously.. i am questioning to understand
[01:38] <trulux> fabbione: sure, read akpm's guide to patches submitting
[01:38] <pitti> trulux: anyway, how can you guarantee that the returned pid is not already allocated?
[01:38] <fabbione> given that you didn't answer any of my questions with more than RTC..
[01:39] <fabbione> i am not sure i want the patch..
[01:40] <trulux> pitti: check the pid allocation function
[01:40] <pitti> trulux: does it check the pid after the point you patched?
[01:41] <pitti> and gets a new one if it is already taken?
[01:41] <pitti> trulux: I won't read the kernel code just to get that answer
[01:42] <trulux> pitti: the kernel itself performs the snaity checking, read the comments in the kernel/pid.c header
[01:42] <trulux> and the pidmap data structure
[01:43] <trulux> also how free'ing works upon it
[01:45] <trulux> pitti: an old approach which explains it basiccaly, just to not repeat myself: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=94759469431344
[01:46] <trulux> fabbione: for you, you can find a pretty good explanation on how it works: http://lwn.net/Articles/10238/
[01:47] <trulux> fabbione: I'm sure you'll find that article useful for your needs
[01:49] <trulux> fabbione: BTW, if you think you can dmeonstrate that you can generate a collision in get_random_int() on-demand by trying to allocate all the possible process ids on the system (whhich is nothing but a result of what you were talking aout), you have found also a flaw in the TCP ISN and packets ID random generation. In such case, report to vendor-sec or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:49] <trulux> ,-)
[01:50] <pitti> trulux: that wasn't the point
[01:50] <daniels> fabbione:
[01:50] <daniels> xauth> add <IP_ADDRESS>:1 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 f503d037e92cbc07a27c9da4a30c384f
[01:50] <daniels> xauth> list <IP_ADDRESS>:1
[01:50] <daniels> localhost.localdomain:1  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  f503d037e92cbc07a27c9da4a30c384f
[01:50] <fabbione> daniels: add unix:10.1
[01:50] <fabbione> it's the unix extension missing
[01:51] <daniels> fabbione: unix works also
[01:51] <daniels> fabbione: TCPCONN was also #ifdef'ed
[01:51] <fabbione> daniels: ok
[01:51] <daniels> xauth> list unix:0
[01:51] <daniels> brainfreeze/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  [...]
[01:51] <fabbione> daniels: try to add/remove
[01:53] <daniels> fabbione: works fine
[01:53] <fabbione> daniels: perfect
[01:53] <daniels> fabbione: all the code will be #ifdef'ed by the same stuff
[01:53] <daniels> if listing works, adding/removing will work
[01:54] <seb128> daniels: is #10601  fixed for you?
[01:54] <daniels> seb128: guess so
[01:55] <daniels> seb128: much as I hate to admit it
[01:55] <seb128> cool, thanks :)
[02:11] <Mez> thnks \sh
[02:17] <Mez> hmm
[02:17] <Mez> we dont do native debian stuff do we?
[02:18] <bob2> you shouldn't be making debian-native packages, no
[02:18] <bob2> not unless you have a very good reason
[02:18] <ajmitch> hey jbailey
[02:18] <Mez> bob2, my reason for asking is I just found a debian native package in MOM
[02:18] <bob2> which is
[02:18] <Mez> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/ongoing-merge/debtags-edit/
[02:19] <ajmitch> Mez: that one is specifically debian-related
[02:19] <Mez> so, what should be done with it ?
[02:19] <jbailey> Heya Andrew (and everyone)
[02:19] <daniels> Mez: ... merge it?
[02:20] <Mez> daniels, it's already merged is it not?
[02:21] <Mez> (unless you're on about shoving it up - and then well, I'll check first (and I dont ahve upload accesS)
[02:23] <Kamion> if you don't have upload access, there's probably not a lot of point looking at MOM
[02:23] <\sh> Kamion: we will sponsor
[02:23] <Kamion> IME it's more work to review somebody else's MOM output review than it is to just review the output and upload it myself
[02:24] <\sh> Kamion: we're too less people for all...actually it means: I need helping hands...and I double check right now
[02:24] <\sh> cigarette time
[02:24] <Kamion> well, I think it's either going to take you longer or you're going to make mistakes
[02:24] <Kamion> but up to you
[02:25] <Mez> libdebtags needs merging from debian, but MOM hasnt picked it up
[02:28] <ogra> Kamion, most of the mergers are one line changes in the deps.... its easy to review and a goo task for beginners to get familiar with the package structure
[02:28] <ogra> good even
[02:28] <Kamion> ogra: I'm just telling you my experience, that's all
[02:28] <Kamion> libdebtags |      0.9.9 |      unstable | source
[02:28] <Kamion> libdebtags | 0.9.9ubuntu4 | breezy/universe | source
[02:28] <ogra> yep.. i agree for the "real" merge stuff
[02:28] <Kamion> Mez: no, it doesn't need merging
[02:29] <Mez> Kamion: debtags-edit depends on libdebtags1-dev
[02:30] <Kamion> libdebtags1 |      1.0.6 |      unstable | source
[02:30] <Mez> from libdebtags1
[02:30] <Kamion> different source
[02:30] <Kamion> MOM doesn't merge across source package name changes
[02:30] <Mez> lol - so I got confused, but still ... it needs the new version ;)
[02:31] <Kamion> Mez: ask elmo to sync it in
[02:31] <Mez> Kamion: ack
[02:38] <lamont> bob2: it was a _DOCUMENTED_ rcs option
[02:38] <bob2> pity it wasn't a CVS repository
[02:41] <lamont> bob2: s/n't//
[02:43] <bob2> er, yeah
[02:50] <Mez> pitti: ping
[02:50] <mpt> yo carstenh
[02:51] <carstenh> hi mpt
[02:51] <mpt> carstenh: I saw the work you were doing on the firewall GUI - it looks pretty cool
[02:51] <mpt> Do you have screenshots of the other three tabs?
[02:52] <mpt> (or the glade file public anywhere)
[02:52] <pitti> Hi Mez
[02:52] <carstenh> mpt: thanks, i'm mainly working on the backend at the moment, so there is not  really much on the other tabs
[02:52] <carstenh> mpt: but i can provice a screenshot of the services-part
[02:52] <ogra> mpt, if you're bored you could have a look at gnome-screensaver ;)
[02:53] <carstenh> mpt: even if there is not much
[02:53] <mpt> ogra: Why, are you considering shipping it? :-)
[02:53] <Mez> pitti, currently the backports verison of FF 0.6 overrides the security updatre
[02:53] <mpt> ogra: The good news is "screensaver prefs" is on my to-do list for today. The bad news is "screensaver prefs" has been on my to-do list every day for the past couple of weeks
[02:53] <pitti> Mez: the backports maintainer already wrote me, he'll sort tht out
[02:54] <Mez> pitti: John wrote you ? fair enough (and theres more than one backports maintainer - hence why I'm talking to you)
[02:54] <Mez> he shoulda cc'd ubp-devel
[02:54] <ogra> mpt, seb128 has packaged it and we consider shipping it... (sadly, since my patch was nearly ready)
[02:54] <pitti> Mez: yes, John
[02:54] <pitti> Mez: it was an unfortunate decision to name the backports package firefox, not mozilla-firefox
[02:54] <mpt> ogra: ouch
[02:55] <ogra> thats life
[02:55] <Mez> pitti: we did that because of the transition in breezy ;)
[02:55] <Mez> pitti: I'm assuming I couold just rebuild and make pseudo packages to point back ?
[02:55] <mpt> ogra: Would gnome-screensaver be shipped unmodified, or does it need work?
[02:55] <pitti> Mez: well, in hoary it is mozilla-firefox and should stay like that
[02:55] <pitti> Mez: sure, if you upgrade the backport
[02:56] <carstenh> mpt: www.fh-trier.de/~heyc/fwgui-srv.jpg, i just copied this part from services-admin
[02:56] <pitti> Mez: then this should be fine
[02:56] <ogra> mpt, look at the ui... i dont like the timer ;)
[02:56] <mpt> heh
[02:56] <mpt> carstenh: thanks
[02:56] <ogra> mpt, but it offers user selection with a userlist for example... that looks pretty sweet...
[02:56] <Mez> pitti: I can make firefox be a backport that depends on the security.u.c version of firefox
[02:56] <Mez> just have a "pseudo" package
[02:56] <carstenh> mpt: after finishing the backend i will have more time to work on the gui
[02:57] <mpt> ok
[02:57] <Mez> as we did for the name transitions
[02:57] <pitti> Mez: that would be even better and avoid redundancy
[02:57] <azeem> wouldn't it make more sense to add a checkbox "Let through firewall" or similar to the services-admin dialog?
[02:57] <Mez> pitti: now if only I could work out how to make a package with nothing in it
[02:58] <pitti> Mez: that's easy, just look at any transition package in breezy
[02:58] <Mez> pitti: any examples
[02:58] <Kamion> it's really not hard
[02:59] <Kamion> you just don't install anything in the package
[02:59] <Kamion> it's kind of the opposite of rocket science
[02:59] <pitti> there is even a package which creates such packages
[02:59] <pitti> if I could only remember its name
[02:59] <Mez> yeah i remember coming across that
[02:59] <Lathiat> ooh ooh
[02:59] <Lathiat> i rmemebr
[02:59] <carstenh> eq..
[02:59] <Lathiat> it was hard to find
[02:59] <azeem> equivs
[03:00] <pitti> right
[03:00] <pitti> thanks
[03:00] <Lathiat> !! thats the one
[03:00] <Lathiat> that thing needs some better keywords to make it easily findable in an apt search
[03:00] <Kamion> equivs isn't for packages to be uploaded to the archive
[03:00] <Lathiat> right
[03:00] <Kamion> it's for local packages
[03:01] <pitti> Mez: ok, so you need an empty package "firefox" that depends on "mozilla-firefox"?
[03:01] <Mez> yeah basically :D
[03:01] <Kamion> all the binaries generated by ubuntu-meta are empty
[03:01] <Mez> so i shouldnt use equivs?
[03:01] <Kamion> it has a fair amount of extra stuff to do dependency autogeneration; just rip it all out
[03:01] <Kamion> no, please don't
[03:01] <Kamion> it's SO EASY
[03:01] <Kamion> you really don't need weird helper stuff
[03:02] <azeem> dh_make should have a equivs mode
[03:02] <Kamion> you've written a debian/control file, right?
[03:02] <Kamion> there is hardly any more
[03:02] <Mez> yeah
[03:02] <pitti> Mez: or just use dh_make and remove everything in debian but changelog, rules, control, compat, copyright
[03:02] <Mez> so i dont need a rules file?
[03:02] <pitti> Mez: you do, but the standard debhelper one should suffice
[03:02] <azeem> Mez: if you use CDBS, debian/rules is a one-liner
[03:03] <daniels> but cdbs is satan
[03:03] <pitti> yay, internal compiler error
[03:03] <Mez> o_O
[03:03] <Mez> bash: dh_make: command not found
[03:03] <azeem> daniels: you highlight on cdbs, right?
[03:03] <ogra> lol
[03:03] <azeem> Mez: there are tools to tell you which package contains which files
[03:03] <pitti> daniels: cdbs is TEH LOVE! :-)
[03:03] <Mez> I was going to use dh_make :D
[03:04] <daniels> azeem: actually I just highlight on azeem and jump on whatever you say.  close enough. :)
[03:04] <azeem> heh
[03:04] <pitti> Dear doko, please fix gcc so that I can build mozilla 1.7.10; love, pitti
[03:04] <doko> ?
[03:04] <chmj> heh
[03:04] <doko> Dear pitti, please fix mozilla, that it can be built with a recent compiler ;)
[03:05] <azeem> you forgot the bit about "love"
[03:05] <pitti> doko: debian/patches/gcc4-build-fixes
[03:05] <pitti> doko: it's not that
[03:06] <pitti> doko: it was the "internal compiler error" I worried about
[03:07] <pitti> doko: well, cool, it seems to build with LANG=C. Great...
[03:08] <daniels>  /m doko our plan to get rid of languages other than english is totally working.  first the keyboards, then xlib locales, now this.  genius.
[03:09] <pitti> I hate you all.
[03:10] <ogra> pitti, why english ? teach her C if you set LANG=C :)
[03:10] <mpt> C !== English
[03:10] <pitti> mpt: close enough
[03:12] <pitti> daniels: add the rosetta delays of langpack tarball export to the list :-)
[03:13] <carstenh> discussion about debian-policy should take place in which channel?
[03:13] <daniels> pitti: to quote a certain person: 'i have a six-month policy of ignoring launchpad, renewable every six months'
[03:13] <daniels> carstenh: #debian-devel?
[03:14] <mpt> daniels: Great, we can use that certain person for usability tests
[03:14] <carstenh> daniels: and discussion about makeing ubuntu-packages that does not conflict with the debian-policy?
[03:14] <daniels> mpt: you'll have to drag him kicking and screaming
[03:15] <daniels> carstenh: whereever seems most appropriate for you that's not #ubuntu-devel
[03:15] <carstenh> daniels: ok, thanks
[03:16] <daniels> er
[03:16] <daniels> that's not #debian-devel
[03:16] <daniels> cock
[03:16] <mpt> Hmm, usability tests of tranquilized persons might not be representative
[03:16] <mpt> (-llized?)
[03:16] <mpt> ((-llised?))
[03:17] <Kamion> any of the above
[03:17] <Kamion> standard en_GB would be -llised
[03:18] <Kamion> but -llized is also acceptable in en_GB, I believe
[03:24] <fabbione> Kamion: is there any chance that foo-modules-2.6.12-4-foo is installed in parallel with -bar ?
[03:24] <fabbione> Kamion: if so, if they share a file, are they going to conflict?
[03:24] <fabbione> or udpkg just override same files in multiple pkgs?
[03:25] <Mithrandir> fabbione: udpkg doesn't so silly stuff like conflicts and such, iirc
[03:25] <Kamion> it can happen, but as Mithrandir says udpkg doesn't actually keep a record of files installed by a package
[03:26] <fabbione> ok, does the first case ever happen instead?
[03:26] <Kamion> actually it shouldn't happen anyway if they have correct Subarchitecture fields
[03:26] <Kamion> fabbione: can you give me concrete examples?
[03:26] <seb128> daniels: should gnome-session depends on xrdb now, or is that pulled by some other package from xorg?
[03:26] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. i need to ship an sh script in nic-modules-2.6.12-4-powerpc and nic-modules-2.6.12-4-powerpc64
[03:26] <fabbione> it will land in /bin
[03:27] <Kamion> fabbione: oh that's fine, those have XB-Subarchitecture: fields in their control files, so anna will only install the one that matches
[03:27] <fabbione> Kamion: perfect! thanks
[03:27] <ogra> doko, for splatting mosquitos ?
[03:28] <doko> use it peaceful if xorg is broken, or hit daniels if xorg is broken :-)
[03:28] <ogra> heh
[03:29] <ogra> wow, daniels gets a lot of love in here today :)
[03:29] <Aegir> I dont see how people can like SuSE... Its poo *checks to see how much of the colony 2 CD is written to disc*
[03:30] <daniels> seb128: make it dep on xrdb
[03:30] <daniels> seb128: it'll be pulled in by xbase-clients later on
[03:31] <daniels> and ubuntu-desktop when I get Kamion sufficiently drunk to mutilate the seeds with lots of tiny packages
[03:31] <jdthood> Ah, so THAT's where xrdb is hiding now.
[03:31] <daniels> jdthood: inconspicuous name, is it not
[03:31] <jdthood> hidden in plain sight
[03:31] <daniels> i like to keep it hidden
[03:33] <jdthood> Can one of the GNOME connaisseurs present tell me why GNOME demands that the system hostname be resolvable?
[03:33] <seb128> daniels: k, thanks
[03:33] <daniels> seb128: i love it that you thank me when I break stuff
[03:33] <daniels> seb128: you should be more of my users
[03:35] <\sh> hell
[03:35] <\sh> we have a problem
[03:36] <ogra> \sh, we call it "challenge" in here :)
[03:36] <\sh> ogra: in here, but not where I came from
[03:36] <\sh> right now
[03:40] <carstenh> jdub: ping
[03:40] <seb128> daniels: yeah, I'm too nice, I should work on that :p
[03:40] <carstenh> jdub: did you get my hilight yesterday?
[03:40] <seb128> he's away this week
[03:41] <carstenh> seb128: he was here 2 hours ago, but maybe too busy to answer my question
[03:41] <seb128> oh, k
[03:42] <Mez> :d
[03:45] <ogra> carstenh, are you sure you mean jdub ?
[03:45] <carstenh> ogra: yes
[03:45] <carstenh> ogra: 16:59:59 < sivang> carstenh: I think jdub can help you
[03:45] <ogra> hmm i havent seen him since days in here
[03:45] <Kamion> sivang was wrong anyway
[03:46] <ogra> yep
[03:46] <carstenh> ogra: but he was active on freenode today, but as i already said, he was probably busy
[03:47] <Kamion> at the moment the buck stops with mdz, but it's much better to get consensus among the people doing the work rather than having to resort to getting somebody to make a final decision
[03:47] <Amaranth> jdub idle 03:05:17
[03:47] <Kamion> and if GNOME adopts something as standard then it's more likely that we will; that decision *is* more with jdub
[03:55] <fabbione> elmo: please sync nvidia-kernel-common (contrib)
[03:56] <elmo> hum, does that not clash with our lrm stuff?
[03:57] <fabbione> no..
[03:57] <fabbione> it's needed
[03:57] <fabbione> it's a common package with an init script
[03:57] <fabbione> nothing fancy
[03:57] <fabbione> elmo: i will soon need a bunch of B-D around :/
[03:57] <elmo> nvidia-kernel-common | 1.0.7174+1 | breezy/restricted | source, all
[03:57] <elmo> that's newer than unstable
[03:58] <fabbione> nvidia-kernel-common_1.0.7667+1_all.deb ?
[03:58] <Kamion> that's experimental
[03:58] <fabbione> i just installed it.. probably experimental?
[03:58] <fabbione> yeah that's fine..
[03:58] <elmo> pull it from experimental?
[03:58] <fabbione> yup
[03:59] <fabbione> good to go
[03:59] <carstenh> Kamion: so i should ask mdz about which service-config-tool will be standard in breezy?
[04:00] <elmo> fabbione: done
[04:00] <Kamion> carstenh: you should try to get consensus first
[04:00] <carstenh> Kamion: between whom?
[04:00] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[04:00] <Kamion> carstenh: 14:47 < Kamion> at the moment the buck stops with mdz, but it's much better to get consensus among the people doing the work rather than having to resort to getting somebody to make a final decision
[04:00] <ogra> elmo, ping :)
[04:00] <Kamion> carstenh: I thought that was quite clear
[04:00] <carstenh> Kamion: work is already done
[04:01] <elmo> ogra: ?
[04:01] <carstenh> Kamion: only my part not
[04:01] <Kamion> yet there is no consensus or you wouldn't be asking the question
[04:01] <seb128> carstenh: what is service-config-tool?
[04:01] <ogra> elmo, here will be a mediawiki upload in debian the next days, i'll need t synced to ubunu as soon as possible... could you dircetly move it through ? its approved by mdz
[04:01] <mdz> seb128: e.g. services-admin
[04:01] <carstenh> seb128: system v linke servioce en/disabeling tool
[04:01] <pitti> Morning mdz
[04:02] <mdz> pitti: morning
[04:02] <pitti> ogra: are debian uploads possible again?
[04:02] <seb128> what is the difference with services-admin? why picking this one rather the other one?
[04:02] <seb128> hey mdz :)
[04:02] <ogra> pitti, dunno, didnt they work ?
[04:02] <pitti> ogra: ftp-master is down for some days
[04:02] <carstenh> seb128: they all use a different database
[04:02] <pitti> (it's moving)
[04:02] <Kamion> --- ftp-master.debian.org ping statistics ---
[04:02] <Kamion> 3 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 1999ms
[04:02] <seb128> is there a package somewhere to try?
[04:02] <ogra> pitti, ouch
[04:02] <carstenh> seb128: i could invent a new one
[04:02] <elmo> ogra: please ping me when it's in debian
[04:02] <mdz> carstenh: we're likely to stay with what we have unless there is a compelling reason to change
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: it works again? great
[04:02] <ogra> elmo, ok...
[04:02] <Kamion> pitti: read more carefully
[04:02] <carstenh> seb128: but users may be very confused
[04:02] <pitti> Kamion: oh, right, sorry
[04:03] <carstenh> mdz: ok, thanks
[04:03] <seb128> carstenh: a new what? there seems there is 2 interfaces to do the same thing, that's already duplicated
[04:03] <carstenh> seb128: such a tool is part of by bounty
[04:03] <carstenh> seb128: so i have to write one
[04:03] <seb128> carstenh: hum
[04:03] <seb128> who is your mentor for that?
[04:04] <ogra> heh
[04:04] <ogra> it was intentional ;)
[04:04] <seb128> what is the rationnal to duplicate work?
[04:04] <mdz> carstenh: I'm not convinced by that part of the spec
[04:04] <carstenh> seb128: and if i disable apache with bum and enable it with gst, gst will not know the start-sequenz-number
[04:04] <seb128> rather than working with upstream on their solution
[04:05] <ogra> carstenh, why should you do that ? if system-manager is in main you dont need bum
[04:05] <mdz> we already have a tool for init configuration, and firewall config and init config are fundamentally distinct
[04:05] <seb128> and bum is ... ?
[04:05] <mdz> ogra: because it was written in the spec
[04:05] <carstenh> mdz: i think we should talk about that when my mentor is here again
[04:05] <seb128> who is the mentor?
[04:05] <mdz> carstenh: jbailey?
[04:05] <ogra> seb128, the tool thesaltydog wrote
[04:05] <mdz> I don't think he was present at the spec bof
[04:05] <carstenh> mdz: yes
[04:05] <carstenh> ogra: that i way i asked which one will be default
[04:06] <carstenh> bof means?
[04:06] <seb128> ogra: and who does it do?
[04:06] <ogra> carstenh, yes, and thats why i told you yeserday that bum is unlikely to be in main
[04:06] <mpt> carstenh: "Birds of a Feather" meeting at the UDU conference
[04:06] <carstenh> ogra: i did not get that
[04:06] <carstenh> mpt: thanks
[04:06] <ogra> seb128, thesaltydog, he bugged us a lot because he wants it in main
[04:06] <seb128> carstenh: which one of what? for services that would be services-admin, no reason to duplicate that ...
[04:07] <seb128> ogra: s/who/what/
[04:07] <ogra> seb128, bum
[04:07] <seb128> "what does it do"
[04:07] <mdz> ogra: "what does bum do"
[04:07] <Treenaks> mdz: well, what do bums generally do?
[04:07] <ogra> mdz, the same as services-admin but to much options ...
[04:07] <carstenh> seb128: ok, that was my question. so _if_ i will implement a service-config-tools it will use the database from gst
[04:07] <seb128> there is no apt-cache show bum
[04:07] <ogra> seb128, its not in yet
[04:08] <seb128> carstenh: why do you have to implement one rather than working on the existant one?
[04:08] <mpt> Anything called "Services" is random junk to Aunt Tillie, so the more we can provide specialized GUIs for subsets of them, the better IMO
[04:08] <ogra> seb128, he wants to bring it to debian, so we (MOTU) decided to wait
[04:08] <mdz> carstenh: if you have not already started on it, please leave out that feature
[04:08] <carstenh> seb128: because it is in my bounty, but i have to talk about that with my mentor
[04:08] <mpt> A "Services" menu in a firewall tool would not be a meaningful subset
[04:08] <carstenh> mdz: ok, thanks
[04:09] <mdz> carstenh: it does say "potentially", and my feeling is that it should not be part of the final spec
[04:09] <ogra> mdz, seb128: http://www.marzocca.net/Immagini/bum2_new.jpg
[04:10] <ogra> mdz, seb128: http://www.marzocca.net/Immagini/bum1_new.jpg
[04:10] <seb128> yeah, I've googled for it, thanks
[04:10] <mdz> carstenh: I've updated it accordingly
[04:10] <carstenh> mdz: it was also part of my proposal, but many this have changed since then
[04:10] <carstenh> mdz: thanks :)
[04:10] <seb128> looks a bit complicated as an UI
[04:10] <ogra> seb128, thats why i dont like it
[04:11] <ogra> seb128, in the last version you even could shutdown udev and hotplug....
[04:11] <mdz> ogra: EVIL
[04:11] <ogra> he disabled that as i heard
[04:11] <ogra> yep
[04:11] <mpt> I don't understand why I'd want to turn any of those things on or off
[04:12] <mdz> you wouldn't, indeed shouldn't
[04:12] <ogra> mpt, mostly because you can...
[04:12] <mpt> They should be on if they're needed by actual checkboxable features, and off if they're not
[04:12] <ogra> mpt, little boys need to touch switches, you know ;)
[04:12] <ogra> (and press buttons)
[04:12] <Mez> elmo: the buildd's dont seem to have picked the backports up at all
[04:13] <seb128> hey jbailey
[04:13] <carstenh> jbailey: hi
[04:13] <carstenh> jbailey: we talked about the service configuration tool
[04:13] <elmo> Mez: cron.daily is still running
[04:14] <jbailey> Heya seb
[04:14] <jbailey> Heya Carsten
[04:14] <jbailey> carstenh: Which we? =)
[04:14] <Mez> elmo: ah, didn't think of that :P looked like they were done!
[04:15] <doko> elmo: please sync libgdchart-gd1
[04:15] <jbailey> carstenh: Thanks.
[04:16] <elmo> doko: nothing to sync?
[04:17] <doko> huh?
[04:17] <doko> elmo: ahh, ok, not yet on the mirror
[04:25] <carstenh> fabbione: ping
[04:28] <carstenh> fabbione: i put new information for you in the query
[04:28] <siretart> elmo: did you get my email about piuparts?
[04:34] <doko> mdz, Kamion: what is our policy for new upstream versions, for which merge reports were filed before the UVF? in this case: curl
[04:34] <mdz> doko: is it needed for any reason other than being newer?
[04:35] <doko> I'm going through my list of merge reports. in this case, I cannot find another reason
[04:36] <mdz> doko: if it isn't needed for some other reason, it should probably be deferred for breezy
[04:36] <doko> mdz: otoh, it would be nice to have recent versions for the packages, that distrowatch lists on the page
[04:36] <mdz> ouch, 209 merge bugs still open
[04:36] <doko> exactly ...
[04:37] <mdz> 116 of >= normal severity
[04:37] <mdz> there were many universe bugs in there
[04:37] <doko> yes, these are mostly C++ libs and GCC issues
[04:41] <doko> mdz: will you go through this list, which ones should be merged for breezy?
[04:41] <mdz> doko: am already doing so
[04:42] <siretart> mdz: I'd like to see piuparts in ubuntu, it seems that it was introduced in debian after UVF. does this package need approval?
[04:42] <mdz> doko: a large number of them seem to have been assigned to you; were there problems meeting the deadline?
[04:43] <mdz> siretart: for universe?  that's fine
[04:43] <siretart> ok
[04:43] <siretart> elmo: could you please sync piuparts from unstable? thanks in advance!
[04:45] <doko> yes, I delayed the python reports, assigned additional ones to me (GCC 4.0), or I missed the merge deadline.
[04:46] <doko> mdz: the openoffice merges are for oo1, which we will probably update until 2.0 anyway, the python modules should be uncritical
[04:47] <\sh> woo...89 merge bugs for universe ,-)
[04:49] <doko> mdz: isdnutils is uplaoded, so there are missing: moin, lintian, hplip, ccache, libxalan2-java
[04:51] <seb128> elmo: can we get gdl gnome-build from Debian?
[04:53] <nomed^> hi
[04:54] <nomed^> i'm trying to set up an apt mirror .. but during apt-get update i have this error
[04:54] <HiddenWolf> Someone in #ubuntu still has problems with the fixed FF version
[04:54] <nomed^>  The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 524AB1D180B70AA5
[04:54] <nomed^> do you know how i can solve this?
[04:55] <siretart> nomed^: this is an #ubuntu question. please ask there (short answer: look at the manpage of apt-key(8))
[04:55] <nomed^> ok thanks
[05:04] <sivang> seb128: how's lp-integration uploads comeing ? ;-)
[05:05] <seb128> sivang: I'm looking at file-roller atm, some notes on it: 1- patches start by numbers usually, that's just a convention but that gives some order
[05:05] <seb128> 2- do separate patches for the code/configure.in and configure changes
[05:05] <Mez> o_O
[05:05] <seb128> the code/configure.in is not likely to change
[05:06] <Mez> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Lists/
[05:06] <seb128> 3- don't bother doing configure changes by hand, run autoconf
[05:06] <Mez> hasnt updated for over an hour now...
[05:06] <Mez> is there something up
[05:07] <sivang> seb128: I followed pitti's suggestion to keep everything related to achiving the same functionality in the same patch file
[05:07] <seb128> pitti: ?
[05:07] <sivang> seb128: ah, right, numbers since it's simple-patchsys.mk
[05:07] <seb128> pitti: any objection to separate the code changes and the autoconf patch?
[05:07] <sivang> pitti: they are used to achive a single bigger goal :)
[05:07] <seb128> sivang: no, just because that's cleaner
[05:07] <pitti> sivang, seb128: that depends
[05:07] <sivang> pitti: toegther
[05:08] <pitti> if you have several patches modifying autotools files, then an extra patch is easier
[05:08] <seb128> pitti: I do 01_codechanges.patch which is not likely to change, and 02_autoconf.patch
[05:08] <pitti> but if you have only one tiny change, you can as well stuff it into the patch itself
[05:08] <pitti> matter of common sense and taste, mainly
[05:08] <sivang> pitti: it's ~1 line change
[05:08] <seb128> yeah
[05:08] <sivang> pitti: PKG_CHECK_MODULES(........ launchpad-integration)
[05:08] <sivang> seb128: do you think it may change int he future? (the PKG_CHECK.. directive)
[05:09] <pitti> sivang: I guess that should go into a separate patch then since it likely produces more than one changed line in the configure
[05:09] <sivang> pitti: hrm, about the configure that's true
[05:09] <seb128> that's what I was saying
[05:09] <pitti> sivang: you can certainly trust seb128's advice :-)
[05:09] <sivang> seb128: ok, sorry for arguing, I will make you a new one - by evening ok?
[05:09] <seb128> 1 patch for the code/configure.in changes, one for autoconf
[05:10] <seb128> sivang: np
[05:10] <sivang> seb128: cool :)
[05:11] <seb128> I'll upload file-roller now
[05:11] <sivang> seb128: with the combined patch?
[05:11] <seb128> fix it for next packag
[05:11] <sivang> seb128: cool, thanks!
[05:11] <seb128> np
[05:11] <seb128> yeah, as you have uploaded it
[05:11] <sivang> seb128: that's why I'm so excited :)
[05:12] <sivang> seb128: did you update the helper lib already as well?
[05:12] <seb128> yesterday yep
[05:12] <sivang> seb128: k
[05:13] <sivang> seb128: did mdz told you a dead line for finishing this?
[05:13] <seb128> jamesh: thanks for launchpad-integration work!
[05:13] <sivang> seb128: (I want to plan my time)
[05:13] <mdz> sivang: launchpad-integration?  due by feature freeze
[05:13] <sivang> mdz: k, thanks
[05:13] <mdz> sivang: 2005-08-11
[05:13] <seb128> jamesh: dunno if you have noticed, you gucharmap does these warnings:
[05:14] <seb128> (gucharmap:7173): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_accel_label_set_accel_closure: assertion `gtk_accel_group_from_accel_closure (accel_closure) != NULL' failed
[05:14] <seb128> s/you gucharmap/your gucharmap patch/
[05:15] <seb128> ogra: have you bugged upstream for your gnome-screensaver password issue?
[05:15] <ogra> not yet
[05:15] <Amaranth> i suppose i'd better start working on smeg 0.8 again, from scratch :/
[05:15] <ogra> err. passwd issure ?
[05:15] <seb128> the warning you had yesterday
[05:15] <ogra> seb128, i told you its caused by my not up to date system yesterday... it worked after i complied it locally
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, i.e. i'm looking at a lockscreen now and it unlocks fine
[05:16] <ogra> seb128, btw, how do i save my screen without locking it ? is there an option ?
[05:17] <seb128> gnome-screensaver-command -activate ?
[05:17] <seb128> --activate
[05:18] <ogra> locks :/
[05:18] <eazel7> hi ppl
[05:18] <ogra> ah, there is a gconf option for it
[05:19] <ogra> hughsie_, ping
[05:21] <sivang> seb128: btw, just realized, did you add the build-dep for file-roller on lpint-dev ?
[05:21] <sivang> seb128: and, don't patched apps need depend on lpint to be able to do the lp helper lib invocation ?
[05:21] <seb128> sivang: no, I've not uploaded yet, did you screw you package?
[05:22] <sivang> seb128: seems so, I've forgot to add the build-dep :-..(
[05:22] <seb128> right, you did
[05:22] <seb128> I've fix the packages
[05:22] <seb128> don't worry, I'll mention you for the patches
[05:22] <seb128> or do you want to fix it tonight?
[05:23] <sivang> seb128: yes, I will , thanks
[05:23] <seb128> np
[05:23] <hughsie_> ogra: pong
[05:24] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:24] <ogra> hughsie_, did you have a look at gnome-screensaver already ?
[05:24] <ogra> hughsie_, it has gconf keys for the screen powermanagement ;)
[05:25] <bddebian> Uhm, somehow I think we missed the deadline for outstanding merges
[05:25] <hughsie_> ogra: yes, I've been looking at how p-m can intergrate with g-s
[05:25] <sivang> seb128: yet, don't we need to make all binary packaes depend on lpint (non dev) package to operate?
[05:26] <ogra> hughsie_, would it be possible to get such a functionallity integrated before 11th of august ?
[05:26] <hughsie_> sure, you definatly shipping g-s?
[05:26] <Nafallo> Simira: morning
[05:26] <seb128> sivang: no
[05:26] <ogra> hmm, i'm not sure about definately , but its very likely... seb128 is very convinced...
[05:27] <hughsie_> ogra: okay, i'll make sure that the integration work is done this week.
[05:27] <Mithrandir> why is there a 2.05 in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/liba/libapreq2-perl/ but no .diff.gz or .dsc?
[05:27] <ogra> hughsie_, so it would be preferable to have it in on your side rather then patching around ourselves in the source
[05:27] <hughsie_> sure
[05:28] <ogra> hughsie_, youre a star :)
[05:28] <ogra> thanks so much
[05:28] <hughsie_> lol, what version of dbus you guys shpping?
[05:28] <sivang> seb128: ok, sorry for asking this, but how come? :) (after all, we call functions from the .so of the helper lib, and if it's not installed..crash will happen..etc)
[05:29] <ogra> 0.34 is currently installed on my system.... but i'm outdated... wait a sec
[05:29] <ogra> hughsie_, yes, 0.34
[05:29] <hughsie_> 0.35 should be your answer
[05:29] <Kamion> the problem with testing stuff that changes your keyboard layout is that attempting to maintain sanity while typing is tricky ...
[05:29] <seb128> sivang: the apps will Depends on the lib, and the lib will Depends on l-i
[05:30] <ogra> pitti, any chance this will happen before breezy ? ^^^ (dbus 0.35 ?)
[05:30] <Kamion> whoa, I think it just changed my layout to Byelorusian or something
[05:30] <ogra> hughsie_, i doubt we'll upgrade this
[05:30] <Simira> Nafallo : hi there. Well back home?
[05:30] <pitti> ogra: nope, AFAIK it changes the API again
[05:30] <ogra> ah
[05:30] <Nafallo> Simira: yepp. much easier to get home than to get there actually ;-)
[05:31] <hughsie_> ogra: 0.35 has the dbus bindings. 0.35 is being BACKPORTED into FC4 as it's going to be the base for all the dbus programs.
[05:31] <ogra> hmm
[05:31] <Nafallo> Simira: even though we still speak norsk now and then ;-)
[05:31] <hughsie_> ogra: no api change, just glib bindings
[05:31] <Simira> Nafallo : hehe. How's Flekken?
[05:31] <ogra> pitti, ^^ ?
[05:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: can you check why there is libapreq2 in breezy?
[05:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir: was there supposed to be a "no" in that sentence?
[05:32] <ogra> hughsie_, is 0.35 absolutely needed  ? or would 0.34 work too (probably with less functionality )
[05:32] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes. :-)
[05:32] <Nafallo> Simira: he's fine. cleaning himselves atm :-). he will get a friend on monday or earlier :-).
[05:32] <doko> mdz: the new rrdtool version supports amd64 better, do you know how compatible this version is compared to the current unstable/breezy version?
[05:32] <hughsie_> ogra: 0.35 is supposed to be near 1.0
[05:33] <Nafallo> Simira: dep-wait on money ;-)
[05:33] <ogra> hughsie_, yes, but we're near feature freeze here in ubuntuland :)
[05:33] <hughsie_> ogra: yes, because 0.34 does not have glib bindings that are useable. 0.35's bindings are complete
[05:33] <seb128> pitti: upstream and GNOME people recommand to use 0.35 and daniels said on #gnome-hackers we will update afaik
[05:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm confused. It *was* there.
[05:33] <hughsie_> 0.35 seems to be defacto-standard
[05:33] <Nafallo> Simira: we shall probably move this to #norsksvenskar :-)
[05:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, it was.  And the pool has a 2.05 orig.tar.gz but no .dsc, no .diff.gz
[05:33] <hughsie_> ogra: sorry for the spanner
[05:33] <pitti> seb128, ogra, hughsie_: ok, fine for me if mdz approves and this doesn't break hal, gnome-vfs, gnome-volume-manager, update-notifier, etc.
[05:34] <hughsie_> g-p-m can run with 0.34, but the cvs currently uses the glib bindings
[05:34] <hughsie_> i'm running 0.35 now (FC4)
[05:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I'm confused, sorry - best ask elmo
[05:34] <ogra> hughsie_, i'm packaging the 0.1.0 version of gnome-power currently
[05:34] <hughsie_> gotcha. That will work with 0.34
[05:35] <Mithrandir> elmo: any idea what's up with libapreq2 and why it's not in the pool?  That is, anything more than .orig.tar.gz
[05:35] <hughsie_> the cvs uses libnotify and lots of cool new stuff
[05:35] <ogra> hughsie_, i'm not sure if i want to package CVS for our stable release
[05:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: libapreq2 or libapreq2-perl?
[05:35] <ogra> hughsie_, and we have no libnotify yet
[05:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion, elmo: libapreq2-perl, sorry.
[05:35] <ogra> hughsie_, waiting for a upstream tarball according to seb128 who will package it
[05:36] <ogra> hughsie_, so its depending on upstream if we'll have libnotify
[05:36] <hughsie_> ogra: 0.1.0 doesn;t handle libnotify
[05:36] <hughsie_> 1.1 (cvs) needs it as a dep
[05:37] <hughsie_> *0.1.1
[05:37] <ogra> yep, thats what i mean... so it would have to wait for it... but we (mjg59 and me) still have to do integration work.... and time's getting short
[05:40] <hughsie_> ogra: cool. Let me look more at g-s and I'll give you a patch
[05:40] <ogra> yay
[05:40] <ogra> hughsie_, many many thanks :)
[05:41] <sebest> hello does the standart ubuntu kernel can boot on nfs (nfsroot) ?
[05:41] <jbailey> sebest: I don't think so.  It's a feature we're adding for Breezy, though.
[05:42] <hughsie_> ogra: n/p
[05:42] <sebest> jbailey: oki, diskless is a breezy goal?
[05:42] <ogra> sebest, look at the ltsp packages in breezy... the ydo souch fun stuff :)
[05:42] <ogra> sebest, edubuntu will release with breezy, the default install will be ltsp based
[05:43] <sebest> ogra, but ltsp, in more than nfsroot, it terminal/server?
[05:43] <jbailey> sebest: Well, nfsroot anyway.  From there, ltsp I think has some diskless options, but I'm not involved in that part, so I don't know the details.
[05:43] <sebest> i mean process are running on the server not on the client (like nomachine nx)
[05:43] <ogra> sebest, it will install a ltsp terminal server and educational apps...
[05:43] <ogra> yep
[05:44] <sebest> does ltsp use standart X protocol, or can it use also nx ?
[05:44] <ogra> its ssh based
[05:44] <ogra> at least as edubuntu will ship it
[05:44] <sebest> ogra nx is also ssh based
[05:44] <shaya> anyone know how one is supposed to rebuild linux-restricted-modules?
[05:45] <Amaranth> seb128: do you know if gnome-session 2.11.90 has gnome-smproxy removed?
[05:45] <ogra> sebest, as opposed to X display exports
[05:45] <shaya> dpkg-buildpackage doesnt work
[05:45] <shaya> trying to play w/ some patches for it
[05:45] <Amaranth> ooh, xauth
[05:45] <sebest> i'm wondering about the compression protocol, if it's vanilla X or use optimised nx library
[05:45] <sebest> ogra, you mean "ssh -X" ?
[05:45] <ogra> sebest, we dont use NX yet
[05:45] <bddebian> shaya: What doesn't work?
[05:45] <ogra> sebest, yes similar ...
[05:46] <sebest> ogra, would it be possible to use nx in ltsp?
[05:46] <ogra> s/smilar/along these line/
[05:46] <shaya> bddebian: apt-get source linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-5-686 ; cd linux-restricted-modules-2.6.10-<IP_ADDRESS>/ ; dpkg-buildpackage
[05:46] <shaya> as the control file is empty
[05:46] <ogra> sebest, if we had a NX we were happy with, we could use it..
[05:46] <bddebian> shaya: The control is empty?
[05:47] <ogra> sebest, Mithrandir is working on a sane NX implementation, but not for breezy (and to be honest i dont know if he dropped it)
[05:47] <sebest> is it maturity that made u choose ltsp over freenx?
[05:47] <shaya> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 1: empty file
[05:47] <shaya> well not exactly empty "# THIS IS AN AUTO-GENERATED FILE.  DO NOT EDIT."
[05:47] <shaya> and there's a control.stub
[05:47] <shaya> but dont know how to generate the control file from it
[05:48] <ogra> sebest, nope, the usecase.... we will comply very tight with the k12ltsp distro which uses ltsp
[05:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: I haven't dropped it, but I've been entirely too busy lately.  Hopefull, it'll be one of the things we'll see for breezy or breezy+1
[05:48] <sebest> ogra: oki, it make sense
[05:48] <ogra> Mithrandir, feature freeze i in less then two weeks... say breezy+1
[05:48] <ogra> :)
[05:48] <shaya> hmm
[05:48] <shaya> never mind, seems something got messed up
[05:49] <Simira> Ubuntu t-shirts (shipping to Europe): http://wiki.ubuntu.com/t-shirt
[05:49] <bddebian> shaya: OK
[05:49] <sebest> Mithrandir, what is the scope of your work on Nx ?
[05:49] <ogra> bbl
[05:49] <Mithrandir> sebest: I'm part of the packaging team for nx in Debian and am working on something which is a replacement for nxserver and nxclient.
[05:50] <sebest> Mithrandir: is it related to freenx?
[05:50] <Mithrandir> sebest: freenx is trying to be compatible with the proprietary nxclient and nxserver.  I don't.
[05:51] <sebest> Mithrandir, what's the plus of not being compatible?
[05:51] <Amaranth> Mithrandir: What do you gain/lose because of that?
[05:52] <Mithrandir> sebest: I don't like or trust the design based around abusing ssh with shared private keys for setup.  I would also like to be able to use smart cards or other devices supported by pam to authenticate.
[05:53] <seb128> Amaranth: yep it has (read the changelog?)
[05:53] <seb128> Amaranth: why?
[05:53] <Amaranth> you can get changelogs now?
[05:53] <Amaranth> seb128: just wanted to see if i could things that break
[05:54] <seb128> what do you say about the changelog?
[05:54] <sebest> Mithrandir, oki you'd like to fit it in ltsp?
[05:54] <seb128>  gnome-session (2.11.90-0ubuntu1) breezy; urgency=low
[05:54] <seb128>  .
[05:54] <seb128>    * New upstream version:
[05:54] <seb128> ...
[05:54] <seb128>      Misc:
[05:54] <seb128>      - Remove gnome-smproxy.
[05:54] <seb128> changelog ...
[05:54] <Mithrandir> sebest: personally, I don't care too much about ltsp, but I imagine it might be used by the ltsp project, yes.
[05:55] <Amaranth> seb128: how can i get that without downloading the source package?
[05:55] <seb128> read -changes
[05:56] <seb128> or gnome-ftp list
[05:57] <sebest> is it possible to mount initrd?
[05:57] <sebest> i tried
[05:57] <sebest> mount -o loop /boot/initrd /mnt
[05:57] <sebest> But i don't know the filesystem type and -t romfs doesn t work
[05:57] <infinity> cramfs
[05:57] <jbailey> cramfs
[05:58] <sebest> thanx!
[06:09] <mdz> doko: go ahead and close the oo1 bugs; we're not going to bother with that
[06:09] <mdz> doko: if there's no pressing need to update the python modules, close those as well
[06:09] <mdz> doko: if there is anything on the list which justifies an exception, please tell me
[06:13] <marcin> hi all
[06:13] <marcin> I got a question about packaging tools
[06:13] <Mez> marcin, then ask :D
[06:14] <marcin> I would like to know if are there any tools for maintainers to detect new versions
[06:14] <infinity> uscan
[06:15] <Mez> elmo: ping
[06:15] <marcin> infinity: thanks
[06:16] <marcin> infinity: apt-getting devscripts package
[06:17] <Mez> mdz: we have our first successful backport :D
[06:18] <mdz> Mez: congratulations!  which package?
[06:19] <Mez> wesnoth
[06:19] <Mez> http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/w/wesnoth/0.9.3-1~hoary1/
[06:19] <bddebian> Heh
[06:22] <ogra> Mez, great :)
[06:23] <mdz> Mez: looks pretty good, all the binaries seem to be in the archive
[06:23] <Mez> yeah, they are :D
[06:23] <Mez> they're all there with their unsigned .dsc:P
[06:24] <Mez> weirdness
[06:24] <mdz> interesting
[06:24] <Mez> It's showing up as being in universe AND multiverse
[06:24] <mdz> now that I don't see; I only see it in universe
[06:24] <marcin> infinity: this uscan tool works only for released sources
[06:24] <ogra> Mez, why is jdong still promotig firefox on the mailing list ?
[06:24] <Mez> mez@apathy:/backports/arena/k3b-i38n/k3b-i18n-0.12.2$ apt-cache madison wesnoth
[06:24] <Mez>    wesnoth | 0.9.3-1~hoary1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary-backports/universe Packages
[06:24] <Mez>    wesnoth | 0.9.3-1~hoary1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary-backports/multiverse Packages
[06:24] <Mez>    wesnoth | 0.9.3-1~5.04ubp1 | http://ubuntu-backports.mirrormax.net hoary-backports/universe Packages
[06:24] <Mez>    wesnoth |   0.8.11-1 | http://archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe Packages
[06:25] <Mez> ogra - he is?
[06:25] <marcin> infinity: is there something simmilar which could work with cvs?
[06:25] <ogra> Mez, he wrote some posts today, yes
[06:25] <mdz> mizar:[/space/video/tv]  apt-cache madison wesnoth | grep hoary
[06:25] <mdz>    wesnoth |   0.8.11-1 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/universe Sources
[06:25] <mdz>    wesnoth | 0.9.3-1~hoary1 | http://us.archive.ubuntu.com hoary-backports/universe Sources
[06:25] <mdz> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hoary-backports main restricted universe multiverse
[06:25] <ogra> hmm, this path of mdz looks like we'll have a new mythtv soon :)
[06:25] <Mez> weird mdz
[06:26] <Mez> and ogra - where ?
[06:26] <ogra> Mez, ubuntu-users
[06:26] <ogra> there was a ff thread
[06:27] <Mez> yeah
[06:27] <Mez> looking now
[06:27] <Mez> that's weird
[06:27] <Mez> but, I spoke with pitti earlier
[06:27] <ogra> looks like he's still goig his own way...
[06:27] <Mez> and we decided that the best way would be to make a transitional package back
[06:28] <Mez> firefox: Depends: mozilla-firefox
[06:28] <ogra> Mez, yes, i saw this
[06:28] <Mez> a pseudo package
[06:28] <Mez> oh, fair enoguh
[06:28] <Mez> well, John doesnt know about all this, I tried to talk to him on AIM with no repsonse
[06:28] <ogra> ah, ok
[06:29] <whiprush> I've been trying to get ahold of him as well
[06:29] <Mez> though to be fair, for some reason I cant make a dummy transitonal package
[06:29] <Mez> they dont like to build for me
[06:29] <Mez> whiprush, what about
[06:29] <whiprush> I need to sign his key.
[06:29] <Mez> o_O
[06:29] <Mez> in person
[06:30] <ogra> whiprush, oh, you met hi ?
[06:30] <whiprush> yeah
[06:30] <Mez> ?
[06:30] <ogra> him
[06:30] <whiprush> he lives like 5 minutes from where I live.
[06:30] <whiprush> er, work.
[06:30] <doko> mdz: some of our printing packages are outdated. i.e. hplip (recent printers), gs-gpl (8.0 -> 8.16). which ghostscript version should be recommended? currently we do have gs-esp and gs-gpl in main
[06:30] <whiprush> Keep inviting him to LoCo activities buy never get a response. :-/
[06:30] <mdz> doko: we agreed on gs-esp
[06:30] <mdz> that's our current default
[06:31] <Mez> he always said he didnt have anyone near him
[06:31] <infinity> Has gs-esp been updated and brought in sync with gs-gpl recently?
[06:31] <mdz> I had planned to do some work on hplip because we need to de-root it to put it in desktop
[06:31] <ogra> Mez, intresting...
[06:31] <whiprush> Mez: we got over 20 people in our loco.
[06:31] <infinity> gs-gpl had some updated drivers that gs-esp was lagging on.
[06:31] <mdz> but my hplip-compatible printer is...somewhere else for the moment
[06:32] <Mez> whiprush: weird, he didnt know about it - he said signing his key was a massive issue for him
[06:32] <doko> mdz: I'd like to update hplip to 0.9.4 for newer hardware support, released on July 20
[06:32] <whiprush> Mez: odd.
[06:33] <mdz> doko: do you have test hardware?
[06:33] <doko> gs-esp is at version 7.07
[06:33] <Mez> or maybe none of you are in strong set
[06:33] <whiprush> we're all in the strong set.
[06:33] <doko> mdz: an office jet
[06:33] <ogra> Mez, whiprush is signed by a lot of us
[06:33] <Mez> fair enough
[06:33] <Mez> ogra, you remember john saying about getting his key signed being a PITA right?
[06:34] <ogra> Mez, yes
[06:34] <whiprush> Mez: have him contact me if you talk to him<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:34] <mdz> doko: ok, could you give a try at de-rooting it at the same time?
[06:34] <whiprush> maybe I've been sending emails to the wrong john dong. :p
[06:34] <bddebian> heh
[06:34] <mdz> it should only need lp and scanner privileges or so
[06:34] <Mez> whiprush<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[06:34] <pitti> doko: look at hpoj, there you'll find the hotplug map and stuff (for derooting)
[06:35] <ogra> whiprush, if your spam factor raises in the near future you know it was the wrong one ;)
[06:35] <whiprush> heh
[06:35] <doko> mdz: ok, I'll consult pitti :)
[06:35] <Mez> did jabber.org just go down
[06:35] <Mez> elmo: ping
[06:35] <ogra> Mez, yep
[06:35] <mdz> Mez: that would not be at all surprising
[06:36] <Mez> first time it's done it on me for a year or so
[06:36] <mdz> Mez: you already pinged elmo 20 minutes ago
[06:36] <Mez> did i?
[06:36] <Mez> :O
[06:36] <bddebian> wb \sh :-)
[06:36] <Mez> elmo: unping one of those
[06:36] <Mez> :P
[06:36] <bddebian> Hey, now that I think about it, I never heard back from mako about my CoC
[06:37] <Mez> (sorry - my minds a bit of a mess at the mo - I just got accosted half way through doing somehting and i dont know what I'm doing now)
[06:37] <ogra> bddebian, mako is travelling a lot reently... he may laga bit behind with email
[06:37] <ogra> recently even
[06:37] <doko> mdz, elmo: I did upload moin 1.3 as source moin1.3
[06:38] <\sh> re
[06:38] <bddebian> ogra: Bah, you all just don't love me :-)
[06:38] <Mez> grr
[06:38] <Mez> since I've moved to this house I just get godamn errors on everythnig
[06:39] <bddebian> Where do I upload my key on launchpad??
[06:39] <\sh> yay...I just read on heise.de: "Countdown for Shuttleworth-Start" .. but there is written "Countdown for Shuttle-Start"
[06:39] <bddebian> \sh: :-)
[06:40] <Mez> bddebian, you goto your page on launchpad, and click on GPG keys at the side
[06:40] <\sh> bddebian: u see...never start with this packaging stuff..it makes u stupid ,-)
[06:41] <bddebian> \sh: Amen to that :-)
[06:41] <bddebian> I don't have a page on Launchpad
[06:41] <Mez> \sh: yeah, it's like doing higher maths makes you forget how to add up
[06:41] <Mez> bddebian, then register
[06:41] <bddebian> Ohh, never mind.. Man I am getting more st00pid :-)
[06:42] <hub_> Amaranth: your CD is being burnt right now
[06:42] <Amaranth> hub_: err, ack
[06:42] <hub_> I had none here, so I have to get some from my personal stach ;-)
[06:42] <hub_> Amaranth: ah ?
[06:43] <\sh> Mez: hehe :)
[06:43] <Amaranth> hub_: yeah, i found a hoary install CD in my stack of discs
[06:43] <Amaranth> hub_: sorry, should have told you sooner
[06:43] <hub_> yeah
[06:44] <hub_> I'll find a use for it anyway
[06:44] <Mez> lol
[06:46] <bddebian> OK, damnit launchpad sends me an e-mail back saying Validate Your Fingerprint but doesn't tell me what to do with it?
[06:47] <bddebian> Ohh, darn it.  NM again
[06:47] <seb128> infinity: could you kick sound-juicer gnome-desktop zenity gnome-panel to build with gnome-doc-utils 0.3.1-0ubuntu3? thanks
[06:47] <Mez> click... the... link
[06:47] <ogra> <-- dinner
[06:47] <Mez> bddebian, I think you should go drink some coffee, you seem half asleep :D
[06:47] <infinity> seb128 : That sounds very familiar, except for the version number..:)
[06:47] <Kamion> bddebian: #launchpad might be a better place to ask for Launchpad help
[06:47] <Mez> ogra, whose dinner are you
[06:47] <ogra> my GFs ;)
[06:48] <bddebian> heh
[06:48] <bddebian> Mez: No kidding
[06:48] <Mez> ogra: I knew I should never have asked :D
[06:48] <seb128> infinity: yeah, another Depends missing, but I didn't get the issue with my pbuilder this morning, weird ...
[06:48] <ogra> Mez :)
[06:50] <Mez> :P
[06:57] <bddebian> Kamion: Should I ask a question about a problem signing the CoC in #launchpad too?
[06:59] <Kamion> bddebian: if it's a technical problem with operating Launchpad, yes
[07:00] <bddebian> Kamion: What if it's an ID10T error? :-)
[07:01] <doko> mdz: there is a reason for a curl update: get rid of the libcurl2 and libcurl2-dev packages built from the current 7.12.3 sources
[07:02] <Kamion> bddebian: well, most people here won't know offhand how to help you, either way :)
[07:06] <mdz> \sh: I imagine others have said this already, but remember to use -v<version> when resynchronizing with Debian (the MOM output includes a pre-generated command line to make this easy)
[07:06] <mdz> doko: don't some things still use libcurl2-dev?
[07:09] <doko> Reverse Depends:
[07:09] <doko>   libdiscover2
[07:09] <doko>   libcurl2-dev
[07:09] <doko>   grip
[07:09] <doko>   fbi
[07:09] <doko>   discover
[07:09] <doko>  all are built against libcurl3 in unstable
[07:09] <doko> mdz: ^^^
[07:09] <mdz> doko: ok, let's do the update then
[07:10] <doko> fine, I'm updating the rdepends as well
[07:11] <fabbione> doko: my brain is melting...
[07:11] <fabbione> can you help me 2 secs?
[07:12] <mdz> seb128: I can't get the launchpad integration in gucharmap to work
[07:13] <doko> fabbione: yes
[07:14] <mdz> seb128: the menu items are there, but they do not do anything
[07:15] <mdz> seb128: ah, apparently I need launchpad-integration installed.  shouldn't liblaunchpad-integration0 depend on it?
[07:16] <sivang> mdz: that was my question exactly
[07:16] <sivang> seb128: could you please xplain again why apps do not need to depend on launchpad-integration ?
[07:17] <sivang> seb128: (I must be brain dead or something, but I couldn't understand your previous explenation)
[07:17] <\sh> mdz: sorry..wasn't with you...
[07:19] <mdz> sivang: apps shouldn't need to depend on it, but it seems like the library should, since it doesn't work without it
[07:20] <sivang> mdz: ok, but then which package would pull the lib in ? ubuntu-desktop? some package must depend on it in order for it to be installed, no?
[07:20] <mdz> sivang: the applications depend on the lib
[07:20] <sivang> mdz: ah ok, that what I was trying to make sure :)
[07:21] <mdz> sivang: the library being liblaunchpad-integration0.  I am talking about launchpad-integration which contains the external program used to do the lookup
[07:21] <sivang> mdz: ah, you mean the python-fu which looks it up by pid, or filename or desktop file.
[07:22] <mdz> sivang: yes
[07:22] <mdz> sivang: without which it fails silently
[07:22] <sivang> mdz: right, becasue the eventual firefox dispatching occurs by that helper python scripts using gnome-open
[07:23] <sivang> seb128: sorry for the previous comment, I now know what you were talking about.
[07:23] <seb128> mdz: yeah, that's planned for next upload as said here this afternoon
[07:24] <sivang> seb128: just sometime I have hard time udnerstanding you :)
[07:24] <seb128> mdz: I was not sure if the lib should depend on it or some desktop package, the lib is probably the best place
[07:24] <seb128> sivang: what did I say?
[07:24] <sivang> seb128: you explained it to me breifly enough, that I got confused all over :) mdz straightened that now :)
[07:24] <sivang> seb128: but you were correct, as alwasy
[07:25] <mdz> seb128: ok, I was probably asleep at the time
[07:25] <sivang> seb128: 17:29 < seb128> sivang: the apps will Depends on the lib, and the lib will Depends on l-i
[07:26] <sivang> seb128: so I missed the fact you the source pakcage produces two pkgs, one for the python scripts, and the other for the lib .so
[07:26] <seb128> that's it
[07:26] <sivang> s/missed/overlooked/
[07:29] <mdz> sivang: this is necessary, in order to allow for the library to change its soname later
[07:31] <sivang> mdz: for instance, to reflect version changes?
[07:35] <Kamion> sivang: yes, life is much easier (for upgrades, etc.) if liblaunchpad-integration1 and liblaunchpad-integration2 are installable at the same time
[07:35] <Kamion> sivang: so you don't want them to contain the same files
[07:37] <sivang> Kamion: sure, to be able to accomodate two apps using different version installed at the same time on one system ?
[07:38] <Kamion> indeed
[07:38] <Kamion> and because otherwise upgrades from libl-i1 to libl-i2 are very painful because you can't do them gradually
[07:43] <sivang> Kamion: cool, thanks for the knowledge
[07:48] <mdz> sivang: yes
[07:49] <doko> infinity: please teach the buildd's to choose libcurl3-dev, when seeing libcurl-dev or libcurl-ssl-dev
[07:51] <infinity> doko : If you drop libcurl2-dev, they will automatically anyway, but I can hardcode it.
[07:52] <doko> ok, then I wait, until they are in the archives
[07:54] <jan1> elmo, keybuk around?
[07:55] <Keybuk> jan1: I'm around, round, round, round, I get around
[07:55] <jan1> keybuk, cool, can you automatically override some MOM merges, and drop ubuntu changes to a list of packages?
[07:55] <jan1> the xfce4 merge has a lot of fallouts mostly because
[07:56] <jan1> the hoary merged happened from a non-debian upstream
[07:56] <jan1> it would be easier for the xfce-motu theam to just start from a base that is known to work on sid
[07:57] <jan1> I'll just do the merge by hand if it can't be don automatically, but I thaught I'd ask
[07:58] <jan1> there are two repos currently offering xfce4.2.2, hoary synced from os-works , than MOM from sid and there are silly conflicts in the debian/ dir
[08:09] <ogra> jan1, nope, bt Keybuk is the wrong person to poke for that... even i'm sure he's happy you talk to him :)
[08:10] <jan1> isn't he scott of the MOM?
[08:10] <mdz> jan1: yes, he is
[08:10] <ogra> jan1, yes, but he doesnt do the syncs you want ;)
[08:10] <jan1> so is elmo the sync-master
[08:10] <jan1> ?
[08:10] <ogra> yep
[08:10] <mdz> jan1: yes again
[08:12] <ogra> jan1, just let elmo do the syncs where you want them from and close the MOM bugs... you can ignore them in this special case
[08:13] <jan1> I don't seem to find elmo on IRC :)
[08:13] <siretart> he is quite busy
[08:13] <Mez> sudo: cannot get working directory
[08:13] <Mez> weird
[08:22] <zyga> hello
[08:23] <zyga> does anyone know of a simple way to create deb's from python's distutils
[08:23] <zyga> ?
[08:23] <\sh> hmmm...
[08:23] <siretart> zyga: cdbs, I used that in the package londonlaw
[08:24] <zyga> siretart: thanks, I'll google it :)
[08:24] <siretart> zyga: no need to google, apt-get source londonlaw is sufficient
[08:25] <\sh> zyga: w8 before u use cdbs
[08:25] <\sh> please have a look on python-gtkextras
[08:25] <zyga> hmm
[08:25] <\sh> this is plain debhelber and python-distutils
[08:25] <zyga> I'll do both
[08:25] <\sh> python ./setup.py install --root=$(CURDIR)/debian/python-gtkextra
[08:25] <\sh> u mean this, right?
[08:25] <zyga> I want to use distutils because that's how it'll work on windows but I want to support debian too
[08:26] <\sh> u mean this setup.py bla thing?
[08:26] <zyga> siretart: apt-source doesn't know that package, are you sure you've spelled it right and it's in the default repos?
[08:27] <siretart> zyga: http://packages.ubuntu.com/breezy/games/londonlaw
[08:28] <zyga> siretart: http://packages.ubuntu.com/hoary/games/londonlaw 404 ;]  - Okay I'll fetch it from breezy ;]
[08:29] <zyga> pitti: hello!
[08:38] <ogra> hey sabdfl :)
[08:38] <sabdfl> hey guys
[08:38] <sabdfl> Viva brazil!
[08:39] <ogra> hehe
[08:41] <\sh> sabdfl: ola :)
[08:41] <Mez> hey sabdfl
[08:42] <Treenaks> hi sabdfl
[08:42] <Mez> can someone answer me - is brezy in a usable state, I've been itching to use it for like a week now :d
[08:42] <Mez> lol
[08:42] <\sh> Mez: until 2005-10-13 latest
[08:43] <Treenaks> Mez: if you're VERY brave, and promise not to complain if we're wrong.. go ahead & try :)
[08:43] <camilotelles> Mez, we are using it here, the live CD version.
[08:43] <Treenaks> Mez: otherwise, just wait a few months
[08:43] <Mez> Treenaks, I dont mind if things break, but as long as they dont break too badly
[08:43] <Mez> and I have a complete backup of my filesystem :D
[08:43] <Mez> but how am i to confirm bugs
[08:44] <Mez> if i cant test
[08:44] <Mez> oh, and the LiveCD version = uber slow for me
[08:44] <lu|lunch> maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but the only recent livecds I see are for amd64
[08:45] <camilotelles> Mez, hacked an install script for the live cd version. We are using the live cd installed.
[08:45] <Mez> lol
[08:45] <camilotelles> Mez s/hacked/We hacked
[08:45] <Mez> camilotelles, that sounds... scary
[08:45] <camilotelles> Mez, it's working.
[08:46] <Mez> camilotelles, it still sounds scary
[08:46] <camilotelles> Mez, maybe it is.
[08:48] <\sh> Mez: make sure...u have us keyboard layout
[08:48] <mdz> luis_: non-amd64 live CD builds have been failing recently
[08:48] <\sh> Mez: and don't use german or kyrillic
[08:48] <luis_> mdz: OK, so not just me looking in the wrong place then
[08:48] <Mez> what about UK?
[08:49] <\sh> mdz: thx for the lesson :)
[08:49] <mdz> \sh: no problem
[08:49] <camilotelles> Mez, FYI we are using the 2005-06-28-breezy-live.iso version from cdimage.ubuntu.com
[08:49] <\sh> actually..I should avoid to ignore my own words
[08:51] <ogra> luis_, just get some "real" hardware :)
[08:51] <luis_> heh
[08:51] <luis_> I'm trying to market gnome to real people
[08:51] <luis_> that means real common hardware
[08:51] <luis_> which, uh, amd ain't ;)
[08:56] <ogra> luis_, hey, i run a laptop with amd64 .... its the future in cold countries :)
[08:56] <luis_> haha
[08:56] <luis_> my poor little pentium M is perfectly sufficient today
[09:06] <\sh> infinity: ping
[09:07] <\sh> somethings messed up....
[09:07] <\sh> The following packages have unmet dependencies: xlibmesa-gl-dev: Depends: x11proto-gl-dev but it is not going to be installed
[09:08] <\sh> on i386 buildd..but not in my pbuilder
[09:08] <doko> elmo: please sync python-numeric. this is a new upstream version, however the changes are build and bug fixes only
[09:12] <doko> elmo: please sync python-reportlab from unstable. it's a new upstream, but I'm fairly sure I did ask for the sync before the UVF
[09:14] <jan1> doko, do you think wxwidgets and wxpython remain frozen at 2.5 the current state?
[09:15] <jan1> There's 2.6.1 in experimnental I know python had special treatment in hoary
[09:15] <doko> jan1: thanks for reminding me ... have to write an email
[09:15] <jan1> doko, so you want 2.6?
[09:17] <dholbach> hellas
[09:18] <jan1> hi daniel!
[09:18] <pitti> dholbach:!
[09:18] <doko> dholbach: finished your thesis?
[09:19] <dholbach> hey pitti, hey doko
[09:19] <dholbach> doko: nearly :)
[09:19] <doko> dholbach: then GO AWAY!
[09:19] <doko> :)
[09:20] <dholbach> doko: i'll attend the TB meeting and will be off after that :)
[09:25] <elmo> doko: please get UVF approval from mdz
[09:25] <elmo> err, UVF-violation approval, YKWIM
[09:29] <jan1> elmo, I just sent you a mail asking for a sync of xfce4 at your nocrew address
[09:29] <jan1> please override all ubuntu changes in the hoary version
[09:29] <mdz> elmo: ok with me
[09:30] <elmo> mdz: which?
[09:31] <jan1> xfce4 is in universe so hopefully both :)
[09:31] <mdz> elmo: python-numeric
[09:31] <mdz> is there another request on the table?
[09:31] <jan1> mdz, xfce4 a few lines above
[09:32] <mdz> xfce4 is universe, implicitly OK at this point
[09:36] <seb128_> elmo: can we get these packages from debian exp: gdl gnome-build?
[09:37] <TerminX> ugh.. every time I right click a package in synaptic in breezy and click mark or unmark, X locks up entirely
[09:37] <elmo> python-numeric |     23.8-3 |        breezy | source, all
[09:37] <elmo> doko: nothing to sync
[09:40] <mdz> Mez: er, ltsp backport?
[09:40] <ogra> lol
[09:40] <jan1> elmo, sorry _now_ I sent the mail - originally was elmo at nocrew :)
[09:41] <elmo> jan1: please use<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for ubuntu email
[09:41] <elmo> seb128: can't see gnome-build ?
[09:41] <Burgundavia> mdz, Inkscape .42 was released today. When it hits debian unstable, can we sync it?
[09:41] <mdz> Burgundavia: any reason other than "it's newer"?
[09:42] <doko> elmo: I see, old package on the system :-/
[09:42] <Burgundavia> mdz, there an annoying usablity bug in .41 that causes it to launch an error screen at startup, when if fact there is no error (it is just telling you about missing extra functions)
[09:43] <Mez> mdz: what ?
[09:43] <Burgundavia> mdz, the inkscape team also describes this as their biggest release yet, in terms of new features
[09:43] <mdz> Mez: Subject: ltsp_0.43~hoary1_source.changes ACCEPTED
[09:43] <seb128_> elmo: it has been upload some days ago, I got it from incoming ... maybe due to ftp-master move? Just gdl for now so, that's fine. Thanks
[09:43] <jan1> elmo, ok re email, do you know where the mercurial package is stuck on the way from sid?
[09:43] <Mez> mdz: I sent elmo a list of whatever was already in repos
[09:44] <mdz> Burgundavia: "biggest release" and "new features" are not what we want to hear when making an exception to the freeze :-)
[09:44] <Mez> i believe people wanted it fror the client
[09:44] <mdz> "minor release" and "bugfixes only" are strong candidates
[09:44] <mdz> Mez: it's not going to be installable at all
[09:44] <Mez> mdz: our backport works fine
[09:44] <mdz> it requires breezy versions of other packages
[09:45] <Mez> ah, fair enough - Well as I said - I just got a list of packages from current backports
[09:45] <Mez> feel free to pull it
[09:45] <Burgundavia> mdz, inkscape is only supported seed and no other packages depend on it
[09:45] <mdz> Mez: I'd like to see that list, if you could mail a copy to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:46] <mdz> Burgundavia: another way to put it would be this...the current version is at least known to build and work.  if the new one doesn't, who will fix it?
[09:47] <Mez> mdz: sent
[09:47] <mdz> Burgundavia: if you'll take responsibility for it, that would be fairly convincing
[09:47] <elmo> seb128: ok, pls re-ping me when it arrives (or mail)
[09:47] <Burgundavia> mdz, several of the inkscape deveopers already run Ubuntu, so there is a pretty high indication that it will work
[09:48] <Mez> elmo, if you havent already done the list, then just poke me if you see anything you thing shouldnt be in there
[09:48] <elmo> mez: I've done the list
[09:49] <Burgundavia> mdz, I will try out the new release and report back
[09:49] <mdz> Mez: the client side can't possibly work; it depends on initramfs-tools which is neither in hoary nor backports
[09:49] <Mez> ah, ok thanks!"
[09:50] <Mez> hmm: mdz - I've not used ltsp :D so I wuldnt know
[09:50] <Mez> lol but, yeah, pull it
[09:50] <mdz> the server side will soon become uninstallable on hoary too
[09:51] <Mez> mdz: to be fair, looking at the backports changelog, It doesnt seem to have been added.
[09:52] <Mez> oh, no, it's showing now
[09:52] <Burgundavia> mdz, shall I email you?
[09:52] <Mez> John did it, but feel free to pull from the official
[09:52] <Mez> I dont know why it's in there
[09:52] <Mez> is there anything else on the list that should be pulled?
[09:55] <mdz> Mez: nothing else that I noticed immediately
[09:55] <mdz> they are mostly safe app-level stuff
[09:55] <Mez> ok, good :D
[09:55] <mdz> but ltsp is tightly integrated infrastructure
[09:55] <Mez> Johns gonna have a nother list after that's all gone through
[09:56] <mdz> elmo: can you kick ltsp from hoary-backports, or do we need to wait for it to build?
[09:57] <elmo> I can make it disappear altogether even
[09:57] <mdz> Mez: don't you usually do a test build and make sure that the resulting package installs and works?
[09:57] <ogra> elmo, only from backports please :p
[09:58] <jan1> elmo, should I mail the xfce request at you ubuntu address as well or it's fine where I sent it initially?
[09:58] <pitti> elmo: a propos disappear, could we remove mozilla-firefox from breezy?
[09:58] <elmo> jan1: it's fine there, I mean for future ref
[09:58] <Mez> mdz: usually, but thats because we have to build the debs
[09:58] <Mez> mdz: but those shoudl build fine, unless they're a slightly higher version from wheere we previously backported
[09:59] <Mez> mdz, we backported ltsp 0.1
[09:59] <elmo> pitti: meh, yeah, stupid disappearing sync blacklist
[09:59] <Mez> so that's probably why it worked
[09:59] <mdz> Mez: yes, ltsp will build, but the packages it builds will not install (at least ltsp-client)
[09:59] <pitti> elmo: I'm not sure, lots of packages depend on it, but actually they should depend on firefox now
[09:59] <jasoncohen> USN-155-1 says that " We apologize for the huge delay of this update; we changed our update strategy for Mozilla products to make sure that such long delays will not happen again." Does this mean hoary & warty will now get new upstream firefox/mozilla releases? the security team has been unable to keep up with mozilla & firefox updates on warty and has only been decent on hoary
[10:00] <mdz> Mez: do you have a mailing list where you discuss these things?
[10:00] <pitti> elmo: I'll fix the langpacks soon (they depend on mozilla-firefox)