[18:05] <jdstrand> hi!
[18:06] <mdeslaur> hello!
[18:06] <jjohansen> hey
[18:07] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:07. The chair is jdstrand.
[18:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:07] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:07] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:07] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Review of any previous action items
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review of any previous action items
[18:07] <kees> \o
[18:07] <jdstrand> there are none from our last meeting
[18:07] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly stand-up report
[18:07] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:08] <jdstrand> I have a pending update
[18:08] <jdstrand> a lot of email to get through (still behind)
[18:08] <jdstrand> I've got another training session this week
[18:08] <jdstrand> I need to prepare for the rally
[18:08] <jdstrand> and (finally, for real) talk with jjohansen about dbus/apparmor
[18:09]  * jdstrand hugs jjohansen
[18:09] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[18:09] <jjohansen> hehe
[18:09] <jdstrand> kees: you're up (and welcome back!)
[18:10] <kees> thanks!
[18:10] <kees> well, I will be catching up for a while. I'm also on triage, and will be continuing to review some of the kernel CVE states with apw
[18:10] <kees> things are in good shape overall, though. lots of stuff in pending. :)
[18:11] <kees> that's it from me.
[18:12] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
[18:12] <mdeslaur> my turn?
[18:12] <mdeslaur> hehe
[18:12] <mdeslaur> So, I'm off thursday and friday
[18:12] <jdstrand> kees: re pending> that's great news. I know everyone has been working hard on that
[18:13] <jdstrand> :)
[18:13] <mdeslaur> until then, I plan on figuring out how to test the logrotate updates I've prepared
[18:13] <mdeslaur> and will continue going down the list of CVEs
[18:13] <mdeslaur> that's it from me
[18:14] <jdstrand> sbeattie: you're up
[18:14] <sbeattie> I'm on community this week.
[18:15] <sbeattie> I have an issue to followup with upstream on re: last week's openjdk update
[18:15] <sbeattie> I also have 2 embargoed issues that I'm working on.
[18:16] <sbeattie> and I need to spend a bit of time prepping for the rally.
[18:16] <sbeattie> That's it for me.
[18:16] <jdstrand> micahg: you're next
[18:16] <micahg> I have Mozilla updates this week (hopefully going out tomorrow) including the Firefox 5 transition in Natty
[18:17] <micahg> I expect a chromium update this week since it's been a while
[18:17] <micahg> then webkitgtk 1.2.7 time permitting
[18:17] <micahg> I think that's it
[18:18] <jdstrand> cool
[18:18] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:19] <jdstrand> as micahg mentioned, he is doing a mozilla 5.0 transition in natty this week. it would be good if all of us could be running the new firefox packages in -proposed (I mention -proposed cause there are langpacks in -proposed hat aren't in the ubuntu-mozilla-security ppa)
[18:20] <jdstrand> I started testing this morning, and it seems solid
[18:20] <jdstrand> I think sbeattie has been running it for a while
[18:20] <jdstrand> anyhoo, feel free to test :)
[18:20] <kees> cool, will do
[18:20] <jdstrand> (thanks for that sbeattie)
[18:20] <sbeattie> yeah been running it since last weekend, I got it through -proposed.
[18:20] <sbeattie> err s/weekend/week/
[18:21] <jdstrand> one thing that I noticed over the weekend was arkose (http://www.stgraber.org/2011/06/14/app-containing-on-the-modern-linux-desktop/) which is stgraber's lxc work
[18:23] <jdstrand> it sounds interesting and I'd like for our team to talk with stgraber and wendar next week tolearn more about it, see how it can work with apparmor, and what we as apparmor upstream can learn or take from his approach. also to see how this might tie into ARB
[18:23] <jdstrand> I don't expect any new work items per se, but maybe info sharing and inspiration
[18:24] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: I noticed that you marked the apparmor profiles wiki page as 'done'. where is that?
[18:25] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: http://wiki.apparmor.net/index.php/Main_Page#Profiles
[18:26] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: cool-- do you have a plan on when you are going to announce it?
[18:26] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: nope
[18:26] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: would it be worthwhile talking about that next week?
[18:27] <mdeslaur> I was debating whether it should be on a standalone page, so the url will be better once I add it to the user space tools
[18:27] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: I can add it to the schedule if you'd like
[18:27] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: thanks. +1 for standalone page, but we can discuss more next week
[18:28] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: added to schedule
[18:28] <jdstrand> cool
[18:28] <sbeattie> mdeslaur: I'm imagining as things flesh out, a standalone page will be needed, but for now it's sufficient.
[18:28] <jdstrand> that's it from me for now
[18:28] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: well, I'd like to get a URL that will stay the same for the user space tools
[18:28] <jdstrand> does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:29] <jdstrand> oh, I forgot to mention I'll be going through applicants this week
[18:30] <jdstrand> alrighty then
[18:30] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur, sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen: thanks!
[18:30] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:30] <mdeslaur> thanks
[18:30] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:30.
[18:30] <micahg> thanks jdstrand
[18:31] <sbeattie> woo, thanks!
[20:01] <maco> persia, Laney, bdrung: ping?
[20:01] <bdrung> o/
[20:01] <stgraber> pong :)
[20:03] <lynxman> stgraber: thanks for the pointer btw
[20:03] <jamespage> o/
[20:03] <stgraber> np
[20:03] <lynxman> o/ everyone
[20:03] <maco> need 4 for quorum right?
[20:03] <stgraber> yep
[20:04] <stgraber> cody-somerville: ping
[20:04] <negronjl> hi all
[20:04] <maco> thanks. i cant remember all the members of both boards im on :)
[20:04] <stgraber> maco: poked geser in -devel
[20:05] <stgraber> Laney said he wouldn't be around, hopefully one of the others will show up
[20:05] <cody-somerville> I'm here.
[20:05] <stgraber> yeah!
[20:07] <maco> #startmeeting
[20:07] <MootBot> Meeting started at 14:07. The chair is maco.
[20:07] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:07] <maco> Welcome to the Developer Membership Board meeting
[20:08] <maco> Agenda is here:
[20:08] <maco> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[20:08] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda
[20:08] <maco> oh good, it doesnt mind lowercase
[20:08] <maco> [topic] James Page's application for Server package set
[20:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  James Page's application for Server package set
[20:08] <jamespage> Hi All
[20:09] <jamespage> details of my app are here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesPage/ServerDeveloperApplication
[20:09] <maco> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesPage/ServerDeveloperApplication
[20:09] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JamesPage/ServerDeveloperApplication
[20:09] <maco> Want to introduce yourself a bit?
[20:10] <jamespage> OK; so I've been contributing to Ubuntu as a member of the Ubuntu Server team since September last year
[20:10] <jamespage> (shortly before I started to work for Canonical)
[20:10] <bdrung> jamespage: i see java in there. are you interested in Eclipse? ;)
[20:10] <stgraber> As a reminder, here's the server package set: http://paste.ubuntu.com/629984/
[20:10] <cody-somerville> stgraber, kudos
[20:11] <jamespage> a bdrung points out quite a bit about java in my app; and this is my background before I started contributing to Ubuntu
[20:11] <maco> stgraber: would be nice if this was exposed in LP's UI :-/
[20:11] <jamespage> (and yes I am interested in eclipse)
[20:11] <bdrung> stgraber: ant1.7 is in there, but not ant?
[20:11] <stgraber> bdrung: apparently :) some packagesets are weird. You'll also note that tomcat isn't in there...
[20:12] <bdrung> jamespage: we need more manpower for eclipse. feel free to join #debian-java on OFTC and/or #eclipse-linux on freenode after the meeting if you are interested
[20:12] <jamespage> bdrung: ack - I'll drop by
[20:13] <stgraber> maco: indeed. At the moment you need to use edit_acl.py from lp:~ubuntu-archive/ubuntu-archive-tools/trunk/ unless someone added it somewhere on LP and I missed it :)
[20:13] <bdrung> stgraber: why is gimp in there?
[20:13] <stgraber> bdrung: oh, fun :) no idea
[20:13] <stgraber> bdrung: I guess we may want to poke cjwatson to get that package set cleaned up a bit :)
[20:14] <stgraber> bdrung: and make sure whatever jamespage needs is in there (if it's in the ubuntu-server scope)
[20:14] <geser> I asked once about gimp already as I spotted it too
[20:14] <cjwatson> it's autogenerated
[20:14] <cjwatson> I'm not going to do single-package cleanups
[20:14] <geser> IIRC it is correct but I don't remember the reason, might be a (build-)dependency
[20:15] <bdrung> afk for a few minutes (there is a bothersome interrupt)
[20:15] <cjwatson> gimp will be there for (build-)dependency closure reasons
[20:15] <maco> stgraber: yeah i know, but for example i was trying to find a list of all the package sets (and i thought someone had pastebinned it at an earlier meeting but couldnt find it), and a page to point people to "pick the one that fits" rather than "get this script and do a thing" (which i couldnt get it to do anyway)...
[20:15] <jamespage> so although my core competency is Java; I have worked extensively with non-Java technology on Linux as well
[20:15] <cody-somerville> jamespage, Are most of the uploads that have been sponsored for you thus far been just bug fixes?
[20:16] <stgraber> cjwatson: is there any documentation on how the package sets are currently autogenerated? (or the scripts used for that)
[20:16] <jamespage> cody-somerville: yes they have; you should see more new packages from me this cycle whilst I work to get jenkins into the archive
[20:16] <cjwatson> in particular, one of the gimp libraries is a build-dependency of gutenprint, which is supported as part of print-server
[20:16] <cjwatson> stgraber: just mailing list stuff really
[20:17] <jamespage> I did do one new package last cycle to support the server team effort packaging cobbler
[20:17] <cody-somerville> jamespage, How familiar are you with versioning of SRU packages?
[20:17] <cody-somerville> s/packages/uploads/
[20:18] <jamespage> cody-somerville: so I have done a few SRU's; I followed the versioning advice as advised in the documented process
[20:18] <jamespage> i.e. .X version ontop of the release version
[20:18]  * bdrung is back.
[20:19] <jamespage> there are a few examples with links on my application
[20:20] <cody-somerville> jamespage, If you were doing an SRU to upload a number of bug fixes from the development focus, how might you version an upload to several older releases? Feel free to create and describe an entirely imaginary situation that demonstrate your strong understanding.
[20:21] <cody-somerville> jamespage, and for kicks, assume that two of the releases you wish to perform an SRU for have the same version of the package.
[20:22] <jamespage> so I would identify the latest point release in each of the older releases (including the ones which have the same version of the package)
[20:23] <jamespage> prepare a updated packages based on the branch for each release; using the currentpointrelease+1 increment on the version number and identifying the -proposed pocket for the release
[20:24]  * jamespage takes a second to thing about the instances with the same version
[20:25] <jamespage> so as I've never actually come across this situation the first thing I would do is seek guidance
[20:26] <jamespage> however I would have thought that I would need to prepare point release updates for each instance (again marking for -proposed); unless its possible to prepare it once and then sync to the second release with the same version of the package
[20:26] <bdrung> you need to prepare an update for each instance
[20:27] <jamespage> I thought so; I was not aware of any such sync process
[20:27] <bdrung> what's the problem in this case? can you imagine a solution?
[20:28] <bdrung> additional question: which version would you use for SRUing 1.2-3?
[20:30] <jamespage> so the issue I could see with the releases with the same version would be around the updates not getting through to proposed at the same time; I could see that this could create some odd versioning issues say if 1.2-3ubuntu1.1 got into an earlier release prior to it hitting a later release
[20:31] <jamespage> I would probably look to ensure that the verification process followed made sure that these drop's hit at the same/similar time into -updates
[20:32] <cody-somerville> jamespage, You wouldn't be able to upload the same version to the later release. It would be rejected.
[20:32] <stgraber> are you familiar with how archive.ubuntu.com works? specifically /pool? if so, you should see the problem in what you just said :)
[20:33] <jamespage> right; so using the same release number in both of the updates create a conflict hence the rejection
[20:33] <stgraber> yep
[20:33] <jamespage> stgraber: its not an area I have alot of experience in
[20:34] <stgraber> so how would you work around that limitation? to have the same update hit two versions of ubuntu while avoiding the version conflict and without breaking dist-upgrade to the next relesae?
[20:34] <stgraber> *release
[20:35] <jamespage> so understanding that constraint I would use a lower point release number in the earlier release
[20:36] <jamespage> if the base version was 1.2-3ubuntu1 I would use say 1.2-3ubuntu1.1.1 in the earlier version
[20:36] <jamespage> and 1.2-3ubuntu1.2.1 in the later version to avoid the versioning conflict
[20:37] <cody-somerville> jamespage, what if the version after has 1.2-3ubuntu1.2 already?
[20:37] <jamespage> infact you could use the release numbers to good effect here
[20:37] <cody-somerville> (s/version/next release/
[20:38] <jamespage> 1.2-3ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> and 1.2-3ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> say
[20:38] <maco> bingo
[20:38] <maco> well, move the .2 to the end, but yeah
[20:38] <jamespage> right - gotcha
[20:38] <bdrung> jamespage: which version would you use for SRUing 1.2-3?
[20:39] <jamespage> and then that can be increments as required
[20:39] <jamespage> 1.2-3ubuntu0.1
[20:39] <maco> XubuntuY.10.04.1 and XubuntuY.10.10.1 is how https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation#Update_the_packaging shows
[20:39] <maco> (bookmark that link, btw, very handy)
[20:39] <jamespage> or in the instance of dual versions ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> and ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>
[20:40] <bdrung> i always forget the layout of the security changelog entry
[20:40] <cody-somerville> Alternatively, I think I've seen the use of tilde and the release codename + X
[20:40] <jamespage> maco- thanks for the link
[20:40] <maco> cody-somerville: that's for backports, i believe
[20:40] <jamespage> (that hangs of the SRU page right?)
[20:40] <maco> hopefully the sru page links to it...
[20:41] <jamespage> yes it does - just checked
[20:41] <cody-somerville> maco, I think I've seen similar notation be used when there are already 'point releases' so you can't just shift the the numbers around
[20:41] <maco> cody-somerville: also, it'll create a problem when we loop from z back to a
[20:41] <cody-somerville> maco, if the upstream versions has never changed, yes :P
[20:42] <maco> cody-somerville: between z and a it might not, assuming we don't go into a new charset :P
[20:42] <bdrung> using the year won't lead to problem for my generation (2100)
[20:43] <cody-somerville> jamespage, Do you collaborate and interact frequently with community developers at all?
[20:45] <jamespage> cody-somerville: so I do hang out on ubuntu-server and ubuntu-devel; although I would have to admit that my interaction with community developer in Ubuntu has not been large
[20:45] <jamespage> on Java related packaging stuff I have had more interaction with the debian-java team
[20:47] <maco> done with questions yet?
[20:47] <cody-somerville> No further questions from me.
[20:47] <bdrung> yes
[20:47] <Daviey> I would like to add that James Page does indeed rock.  His recent NEW packages which i sponsored into Oneiric were faultless.  Sailed through the queue.  He is pushing his work into Debian concurrently.  He is a good cookie.
[20:48]  * stgraber is ready to vote
[20:48] <maco> [vote] James Page's server package set application
[20:48] <MootBot> Please vote on:  James Page's server package set application.
[20:48] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[20:48] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[20:48] <maco> +1
[20:48] <MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[20:48] <Daviey> (Also noticed him working with various upstreams to get them to resolve licencing issues.)
[20:48] <bdrung> +1 (likes the Debian involvement)
[20:48] <MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[20:49] <stgraber> +1
[20:49] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[20:50] <maco> cody-somerville, geser?
[20:50] <cody-somerville> +1
[20:50] <MootBot> +1 received from cody-somerville. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[20:50] <geser> +1
[20:50] <MootBot> +1 received from geser. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[20:50] <maco> [endvote]
[20:50] <MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
[20:50] <maco> congrats jamespage!
[20:50] <bdrung> jamespage: congrats
[20:51] <Daviey> \o/
[20:51] <jamespage> thankyou!
[20:51] <maco> [topic] Marc Cluet's Contributing Developer application
[20:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  Marc Cluet's Contributing Developer application
[20:51] <lynxman> hi everyone
[20:51] <lynxman> my application is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcCluet/UbuntuContributingDeveloper
[20:51] <maco> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcCluet/UbuntuContributingDeveloper
[20:51] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarcCluet/UbuntuContributingDeveloper
[20:52] <maco> lynxman: please introduce yourself
[20:52] <lynxman> I'm Marc Cluet, I'm working for Canonical in Corporate Services
[20:52] <lynxman> With negronjl we form the Systems Integration team
[20:53] <lynxman> Our goal is to integrate into Ubuntu new solutions for servers both cloud and metal based
[20:53] <lynxman> Right now our main project is Orchestra
[20:53] <lynxman> This has allowed me to collaborate both with the communities surrounding puppet and mcollective and at the same time Puppet Labs
[20:54] <lynxman> I've also registered patches and pushed new versions for mcollective and rabbitmq plugins
[20:54] <lynxman> (all through sponsorization)
[20:54] <lynxman> Right now finishing the last details to get also mcollective-plugins in the Oneiric archive
[20:55] <lynxman> My collaborations are mainly with the Ubuntu Server team
[20:55] <stgraber> In you "What I like least in Ubuntu" section, you mention the review process. Do you think the patch pilot program is helping improve that or are we still missing something?
[20:56] <stgraber> *your
[20:56] <lynxman> stgraber: It does help, I do still think that the big problem is not enough man hours to review all the packages in the queue
[20:57] <lynxman> stgraber: To help with that process I've also subscribed to ~ubuntu-sponsors to get better reviews of my work and learn faster, trying to commit as few errors as it can be
[20:57] <bdrung> i see only one package appearing on https://launchpad.net/~lynxman/+uploaded-packages - do you have pointers to the bugs that were sponsored?
[20:58] <lynxman> bdrung: Let me look for them, one sec
[20:59] <Daviey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rabbitmq-stomp/2.4.1+hg20110525-0ubuntu1
[20:59] <Daviey> DEBEMAIL mismatch :(
[21:00] <lynxman> bdrung: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mcollective/1.2.0-0ubuntu1 was completely done on my own, with sponsorship from zul
[21:01] <bdrung> lynxman: it fails to build. how can you ensure that this won't happen again?
[21:02] <lynxman> bdrung: I always build all my new packages first locally then on a PPA, run through Lintian checks to make sure all is good
[21:02] <lynxman> bdrung: once the packages pass all the checks I submit them for sponsoring
[21:02] <Ampelbein> lynxman: you should go to https://launchpad.net/~marc-cluet and request to merge the two accounts so all your work does actually show under your account.
[21:02] <bdrung> how do you build it locally? with debuild?
[21:02] <lynxman> bdrung: I used to use dpkg-buildpackage but now I'm using debuild that runs lintian at the end
[21:03] <lynxman> Ampelbein: thank you for pointing that out, I'll make sure to ask for the account merge :)
[21:04] <bdrung> lynxman: i recommend to use pbuilder / sbuild or similar before the upload (or instead of using a PPA). this gives a minimal chroot similar to the official builders
[21:04] <lynxman> bdrung: I'm also using pbuilder or sbuild for a clean chroot, learning all the tools of the trade
[21:04] <lynxman> bdrung: jinx :)
[21:05] <bdrung> what's your relation to Debian?
[21:06] <cody-somerville> lynxman, Do you collaborate and interact frequently with community developers at all?
[21:06] <lynxman> bdrung: I had no relation with debian before except personal friendships with some of the debian packagers, i also did run some serves on debian and submitted bug reports
[21:08] <lynxman> cody-somerville: I do specially when I'm creating packages for the software that the community is based around, this has been the case with mcollective in special
[21:09] <lynxman> cody-somerville: I hang regularly in the #mcollective channel, submit bugs upstream and help other developers and users to smooth their experience of mcollective in Ubuntu
[21:09] <lynxman> cody-somerville: I also hang both in #ubuntu-server and #ubuntu-devel regularly
[21:09] <cody-somerville> lynxman, So mostly upstream collaboration?
[21:09] <lynxman> cody-somerville: yes
[21:10] <lynxman> cody-somerville: I do want to try to push the rabbitmq plugins to Debian as well since there's no maintainer for them right now
[21:10] <bdrung> lynxman: what do you think about getting packages into Debian first and getting changes into Debian?
[21:10] <cody-somerville> lynxman, Do you have any examples of collaboration with Ubuntu MOTU, Ubuntu Core Developers, or Debian Developers that you're proud of and can share with us?
[21:10] <lynxman> cody-somerville: yes, I've had interaction with smoser adding features to cloud-init
[21:11] <lynxman> cody-somerville: also collaborated very closely with zul, kirkland and Daviey for both mcollective and rabbitmq plugins
[21:11] <cody-somerville> lynxman, Was that work you did as part of your job?
[21:12] <cody-somerville> (if it was, its not a strike against you - I'm just curious).
[21:12] <lynxman> cody-somerville: part of it was, but I also submitted more useful features or patches that were out of my project requirements
[21:12] <lynxman> cody-somerville: specially for the mcollective-provisioner, I've been collaborating very closely with RI Pienaar (Volcane on Freenode) on that piece of code on my free time
[21:13] <lynxman> cody-somerville: I also want to get the rabbitmq plugins in Debian so mcollective can work well in debian (and replace activemq with rabbitmq there)
[21:13] <lynxman> cody-somerville: so I expect my work in Ubuntu making mcollective work smoothly to benefit Debian too
[21:14] <bdrung> i have no more questions
[21:14]  * stgraber is ready to vote
[21:14] <lynxman> cody-somerville: all of this is extra curricular to my work, which is just to integrate mcollective into Orchestra and Ubuntu
[21:15] <maco> everyone else ready to vote?
[21:15] <maco> [vote] Marc Cluet for contributing developer
[21:15] <MootBot> Please vote on:  Marc Cluet for contributing developer.
[21:15] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[21:15] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[21:17] <maco> +1
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from maco. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[21:17] <maco> everybody waiting for someone else to go first?
[21:17] <bdrung> +1 for ubuntu-contributor
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from bdrung. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:17] <stgraber> +1 (sorry got distracted)
[21:17] <MootBot> +1 received from stgraber. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[21:17] <cody-somerville> -1 - Although on the right path, I don't think lynxman meets the minimum standards per current precedent for contributing developer.
[21:17] <MootBot> -1 received from cody-somerville. 3 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:17] <geser> +0
[21:17] <MootBot> Abstention received from geser. 3 for, 1 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[21:18] <maco> [endvote]
[21:18] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. 1 abstained. Total: 2
[21:19] <robbiew> cody-somerville: "minimum standards per current precedent for contributing developer"?...really?  lol
[21:20] <maco> split vote...how do these work again?
[21:20] <maco> i remember one meeting ending in a debate on how split votes go
[21:20] <maco> (a few years ago)
[21:20] <kirkland> where are these current precedents?  are they objectively documented?
[21:20] <stgraber> maco: IIRC he needs 4 +1s. (but that's really IIRC :))
[21:21] <Daviey> stgraber: based on what ratio?
[21:21] <bdrung> 4 out of 7 is enough
[21:21] <bdrung> => more than 50%
[21:21] <maco> stgraber: yeah the debate i remember was "does it need to come out positive or does it need to come out to quorum-number-of-+1-votes?"
[21:21] <stgraber> Daviey: DMB has 7 members
[21:21] <kirkland> there's only 5 votes
[21:21] <kirkland> 3 out of 5 is 60%
[21:22] <highvoltage> hmm? didn't it used to work that someone needs a final 'score' of +4?
[21:22]  * micahg thought the requirement was +4, but that just comes from an outsider observer
[21:22] <stgraber> I also remember us asking the members who couldn't make it to vote on the mailing-list
[21:22] <Daviey> wow, this uncertainity is quite unfair to put on a potential contributing developer who is clearly waiting on the edge of his seat.
[21:22] <kirkland> highvoltage: that sounds reasonable, when 7 sitting council members actually attend and vote
[21:23] <bdrung> quorum-number-of-+1-votes is stronger than positive
[21:23] <kirkland> +3 -1 = +2, positive, no?
[21:23] <bdrung> IIRC, the other DMB members where asked to vote per email
[21:24] <cody-somerville> The vote can be taken to mailing list to ask the other members to vote. If they both +1 then the applicant is accepted AFAICT.
[21:24] <maco> cody-somerville: thatd work
[21:24] <bdrung> one +1 would be enough
[21:24] <maco> kirkland: the debate is whether that's enough. majority of quorum v. majority of board
[21:25] <maco> when this came up in '08 or '09, i remember crimsun mentioning how the MC handled it, but its been long enough ive forgotten again
[21:25] <cody-somerville> bdrung, How so? That would only bring the vote to +3. +4 is required.
[21:26] <bdrung> cody-somerville: that would bring us to 4x +1 and 1x -1
[21:26] <bdrung> 4x +1 is enough even if 3x -1 are there, isn't it?
[21:27] <cody-somerville> bdrung, -1 cancels out one of the +1s as we've discussed and agreed before IIRC.
[21:27] <maco> cody-somerville: but then you still end up with the majority of the entire board having voted +1
[21:27] <maco> we need to write down how this works
[21:27] <kirkland> maco: I think it's sad that a fraction of the board shows up for the meeting that candidates clearly work toward and prepare for
[21:28] <maco> kirkland: quorum is 4. we'd never have a meeting if all 7 had to be free every time, especially with timezones
[21:29] <highvoltage> kirkland: you should replace board members who stay away for two consecutive meetings without apologies!
[21:29] <kirkland> maco: and a single down vote can take a candidate down
[21:29] <cody-somerville> maco, I move that we take this discussion to the mailing list. We can more easily bring up prior discussion + votes there.
[21:29] <Daviey> *sigh*
[21:29] <kirkland> maco: particularly when that downvote is quite predictably linked to @canonical.com addresses
[21:29] <Daviey> geser: Would you like to expand on your +0?
[21:29] <RoAkSoAx> ~/win 3
[21:30] <maco> kirkland: i dont think there's any sort of pattern to suggest that @canonical folks are "predictably" downvoted
[21:30] <maco> [action] Conclude Marc Cluet's vote on Permissions mailing list
[21:30] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Conclude Marc Cluet's vote on Permissions mailing list
[21:31] <lynxman> thank you guys for your time, I'll keep an eye on the mailing list traffic for the final vote
[21:31] <maco> [action] Figure out majority-of-quorum versus majority-of-board and document it somewhere
[21:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Figure out majority-of-quorum versus majority-of-board and document it somewhere
[21:31] <maco> and now that it's been an hour and a half...
[21:31] <maco> #endmeeting
[21:31] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:31.
[21:31] <stgraber> thanks!
[21:31] <Daviey> sad.
[21:32] <bdrung> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Logs is not up-to-date
[21:32] <stgraber> I still think we should get persia and Laney to vote on lynxman's application
[21:33] <stgraber> bdrung: how so? (still waiting for wiki to load :))
[21:33] <stgraber> oh, right, forgot to add a link to the minutes of last meeting ... why do we have to update so many pages?
[21:33] <bdrung> the latest entry is 2011-05-09
[21:33] <stgraber> I already added our last meeting to the team reports...
[21:34] <bdrung> we need some tools doing all the annoying stuff
[21:34] <cody-somerville> +1
[21:34] <geser> Daviey: sure, mostly the short time of contributions (and the few sponsored uploads, but I just see that through the account merging some more uploads appeared), so my vote would be +0.5 (I'm still on the edge)
[21:34] <maco> stgraber: i'm emailing the Permissions list right now so persia and Laney can vote
[21:34] <micahg> kirkland: please keep in mind the DMB is staffed by volunteers and people try their best to attend
[21:34] <Daviey> geser: Thanks. Appreciated.
[21:35] <stgraber> bdrung: updated
[21:35] <stgraber> maco: thanks
[21:36] <bdrung> found a +3 vote in http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/01/31/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t19:16
[21:36] <bdrung> which was continued via email
[21:36] <geser> stgraber: I started the log page because I needed several time to look up something in a log of a previous meeting and had to count backwards to find the date of a previous meeting to be able to find the log in irclogs.u.c
[21:37] <stgraber> geser: ok, I just wasn't aware of it :) I'm adding it to the post-meeting todolist so hopefully we won't forget about it
[21:37] <stgraber> that's if the wiki finally lets me edit the DMB agenda page ...
[21:39] <maco> email sent
[21:39] <stgraber> ok, updated post-meeting todolist
[23:59] <Laney> I find the second guessing and sideline sniping to be rather disappointing.


[02:20] <duflu> Whoa, Launchpad tracks Gitlab links now
[02:20] <duflu> That's handy
[07:12] <didrocks> good morning
[07:12] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:22] <duflu> Morning didrocks and jibel
[07:22] <didrocks> &hey duflu
[07:24] <jibel> hi duflu
[08:23] <willcooke> morning
[08:24] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[08:24] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[08:31] <willcooke> duflu, do you know - did any of your performance fixes land in Disco and get on the ISO yet?
[08:32] <willcooke> reason being, I reinstalled Disco on to my test laptop yesterday to do the installer slideshow screenshots.  It feels really smooth
[08:34] <duflu> willcooke, technically yes if you count the release bugs (https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/monday-11th-march-2019/10092/7) and all the work that got upstreamed in 3.32. But also /no/ because the fixes we discussed have not made it. I only proposed one of them, still awaiting review (https://salsa.debian.org/gnome-team/mutter/merge_requests/27)
[08:34] <gitbot> GNOME issue (Merge request) 27 in mutter "debian/patches: Fix high output latency in Xorg sessions" [Opened]
[08:35] <willcooke> duflu, aren't you distro patching something?
[08:35] <willcooke> oh wait
[08:35] <willcooke> technically yes
[08:35] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:35] <willcooke> so yeah, I think I'm seeing the results then, nice work
[08:35] <willcooke> hi oSoMoN
[08:36] <duflu> willcooke, thanks, yeah. But still the answer is no - neither of the fixes discussed in email are there
[08:36] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[08:37] <oSoMoN> hey willcooke, duflu
[08:43] <Wimpress> Morning desktopers o/
[08:43] <willcooke> oi oi Wimpress
[08:43] <oSoMoN> morning Wimpress
[08:44] <duflu> Hi Wimpress
[08:44] <duflu> Long time no see
[08:44] <duflu> That applies to everyone here actually
[08:49] <duflu> Ubuntu makes an appearance in the Android developer docs https://developer.android.com/studio/run/emulator
[08:49] <willcooke> Oooh!  18.04 too
[08:50] <willcooke> didrocks, relevant to your interests ^
[08:52] <duflu> Also https://developer.android.com/studio/install#linux
[08:52] <didrocks> nice \o/
[08:56] <Wimpress> oSoMoN: I heard a podcast praise Fedora for shipping a touch enabled Firefox by default.
[08:56] <duflu> Seems they're using Material Design in the app(s). I wonder what toolkit
[08:57] <Wimpress> Was trivial to enable via about:config
[08:57] <Wimpress> Is that something we could also enable by default?
[08:58] <oSoMoN> Wimpress, I suppose so, if it just works
[08:58] <oSoMoN> I don't have a touch-enabled device to confirm that, though
[09:03] <Wimpress> I have a few touch enabled laptops. Happy to test a build.
[09:03] <Laney> yoi
[09:05] <willcooke> Wimpress, what's the setting?
[09:06] <oSoMoN> yoi Laney
[09:07] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[09:08] <duflu> Morning Laney and seb128
[09:08] <seb128> hey duflu
[09:09] <seb128> Wimpress, oSoMoN, why is not default upstream? (usually it's sign that there are drawbacks)
[09:11] <duflu> seb128, did you notice LP can track Gitlab now? :)
[09:11] <Wimpress> I did wonder that seb128.
[09:12] <seb128> duflu, yes, it I was subscribed to the bug and tried that on friday :)
[09:15] <didrocks> hey seb128, Laney, Wimpress
[09:15] <seb128> something went slightly wrong there though
[09:15] <seb128> the default tracker for GNOME changed in launchpad
[09:15] <seb128> which means any old bug watch is leading to a 404 gitlab url rather than to the still existing bugzilla page it references
[09:16] <seb128> I wonder if the gnome bug tracker should be changed back and a new gnome-gitlab added or something, but then I'm unsure launchpad can have 2 upstream bugtrackers for the same component
[09:16] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:17] <seb128> kenvandine, jbicha, unsure if that's useful to one of you bug desktop list got a build fail for gnome-system-monitor on xenial, 'Could not find a required package in 'build-packages': python3-distutils'
[09:17] <seb128> snap build I mean, using the xenial backport ppa, so I guess a 16 build of the snap
[09:18] <andyrock> willcooke: can you create the new topic in team-update please? :)
[09:19] <willcooke> sure can
[09:19] <seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
[09:19] <andyrock> hey hey seb128
[09:19] <andyrock> fine, what about you? :)
[09:20] <seb128> good, just a bit tired
[09:20] <willcooke> andyrock, https://community.ubuntu.com/t/monday-18th-march-2019/10198
[09:20] <willcooke> sorry for the delay
[09:21] <seb128> weeks a too crazy busy, I keep picking things that seem worth SRUing/fixing in my daily triage which adds to the backlog and days are often cut with meetings and IRC/emails discussions, so I end doing work late to feel like I did get some work done at least :/
[09:24] <seb128> duflu, why do you think bug #1817338 is a pulseaudio issue? afaik it works with the pavucontrol tool and with old g-c-c, it seems more likely a bug in the panel redesign?
[09:24] <duflu> seb128, because one user suggested it might be. But I suspect they are wrong
[09:24] <seb128> k
[09:25] <seb128> I would be surprised if that was pulseaudio
[09:25] <seb128> oh, speaking of which
[09:25] <seb128> hey robert_ancell :)
[09:25] <robert_ancell> yo
[09:25] <duflu> robert_ancell, welcome to the other side
[09:25] <robert_ancell> The dark side.
[09:25] <seb128> robert_ancell, we were talking about bug #1817338 ... did you see it/look at it yet, do you think it's likely be on the g-c-c side or pulseaudio?
[09:26] <duflu> seb128, already discussed with him :)
[09:26] <seb128> what was the outcome?
[09:26] <robert_ancell> I haven't looked in depth but it seems like g-c-c is the first thing to check.
[09:26] <seb128> (if reopening followed that discussion it would have been good to put the context on the bug as you edited it)
[09:27] <robert_ancell> Getting them to run the old g-c-c would rule that in or out.
[09:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, k, thx
[09:28] <duflu> You would need to explain how though. A lot of bug reporters get stuck on requests like that without instructions
[09:28] <robert_ancell> Yeah, that's why I haven't requested it yet :)
[09:28] <seb128> robert_ancell, I can try that today if that's useful
[09:29] <seb128> but I feel like any case we need to debug it
[09:29] <seb128> so unsure it puts us closer from resolution/is an useful thing to spend time on doing
[09:29] <robert_ancell> seb128, it would be. I think it's going to be hard to debug without the exact hardware but if it doesn't occur with the old g-c-c and then we can make a new g-c-c with some logging in a PPA then we'll have a chance.
[09:30] <robert_ancell> If the old g-c-c doesn't work then that immediately makes it look like a pa issue.
[09:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, from the description it sounds like "exact hardware" might be an hdmi device with sound, e.g a TV
[09:30] <duflu> It would probably be possible to extract the old binary and run it assuming other deps didn't change
[09:30] <robert_ancell> I don't know how much variation there is in pa between HDMI, but hoping it is as simple as that.
[09:31] <seb128> also julian's comment state that any device change is buggy for him
[09:31] <seb128> see comment #10
[09:33] <robert_ancell> seb128, meeting!
[09:34] <andyrock> joining!
[09:52] <seb128> robert_ancell, so I just tried on the inspiron with a cheap in-ear headset from a conf, switch from it to the laptop speaker doesn't work (test still output on the headset, closing/Restarting g-c-c and the headset is selected)
[09:53] <seb128> robert_ancell, install g-c-c/cosmic it works, I tried by starting pavucontrol, the output in there change as soon as I click on another line with g-c-c 3.30, it nevers change with 3.32
[09:53] <seb128> duflu, ^
[09:53] <robert_ancell> seb128, nice
[10:02] <duflu> seb128, sounds like pulseaudio was unmodified and not the problem?
[10:04] <seb128> duflu, that's my undestanding, I marked that line invalid again and commented with the details on my testing
[10:20] <seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, Laney, updates from yesterday still have gnome-shell locking on sound indicator scrollwheeling
[10:21] <seb128> (rebooted the machine since the upgrade so it's not a reload of shell problem)
[10:21] <Laney> working here
[10:21] <andyrock> seb128: the fix was in mutter
[10:21] <Trevinho> seb128: weird, that was also a freeze exception
[10:21] <seb128> andyrock, 3.32.0 installed
[10:21]  * Laney scrolls weeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[10:21] <duflu> Don't do i-
[10:22] <seb128> the bts is pa_mutex_lock/pulse_driver_cancel/...
[10:22] <seb128> top of bt
[10:22] <andyrock> seb128: can you send me the full bt?
[10:24] <seb128> bah, no, I killed gnome-shell and can't reproduce now
[10:24] <seb128> I'm going to keep an eye for it
[10:25] <seb128> but that was a fresh boot after upgrade, so there is still an issue, but it's not easy to trigger than before
[10:28] <seb128> fun, scrolling over the icon does a riffle sound, it used to only play the sound when changing with keys I think
[10:29] <andyrock> that because we've a distro patch to enable the sound
[10:29] <andyrock> and our distro patch was triggering the issue
[10:30] <Laney> who even mouse wheels on that thing?
[10:30]  * Trevinho always
[10:30] <Laney> 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱
[10:30] <duflu> Laney, worse, there's an ongoing debate on whether left or right is up/down with natural scrolling
[10:31] <Laney> ban all scrolling
[10:31] <didrocks> should do like for games: provides a setting
[10:31] <andyrock> seb128: https://code.launchpad.net/~azzar1/update-notifier/livepatch-indicator/+merge/364327
[10:31] <Trevinho> Laney: you're old
[10:32] <duflu> Ah it's like I never missed the sprint banter at all
[10:32]  * seb128 does
[10:33] <seb128> andyrock, k, will review that (and the other ones you listed in your weekly report)
[10:33] <seb128> willcooke, btw, sound keys do work on current disco from the day without any modifier here
[10:33] <seb128> no fn nor alt
[10:33] <seb128> just pressing the keys
[10:34] <willcooke> seb128, cool.  I think it's a BIOS option to change what they do, so maybe I changed sometghing there
[10:34] <seb128> (though iirc there might be a bios option to define the default behaviour of the fn key, either being f<n> or multimedia ones, so we might have a difference there)
[10:34] <willcooke> :)
[10:34] <seb128> heh
[10:34] <seb128> :)
[10:36] <duflu> Or if it's a Chromebook then hardcoded to Fn, but painted as multimedia keys
[10:37] <seb128> no, it's a inspiron 11 :)
[10:40] <seb128> the new trash icon looks nicer
[10:40] <seb128> the blue was out of style with other icons I found
[10:40] <didrocks> yep, first thing that frederik told me on telegram :p
[10:57] <seb128> is that only me/my screen who find the 'user profile' picture difficult to see/guess it's clickable in the users settings panel? (same problem with GTK_THEME=Adwaita btw)?
[10:57] <willcooke> seb128, I put you down as a reviewer for the slideshow changes, hope that's ok.  Feel free to move it somewhere else.  I could use some pointers on what to do about the new string as well.
[10:57] <seb128> willcooke, k, I'm happy to at least have a look
[10:57] <seb128> wdym about the new strings?
[10:58] <willcooke> I added a new one, I dont know what the impact of that is
[10:58] <seb128> you shouldn't have anything to do, just get the update uploaded and the system should import them etc
[10:58] <willcooke> or who I need to tell
[10:58] <willcooke> ah kk
[10:58] <seb128> nobody, we are not in UIF yet
[10:58] <seb128> they pop up in the "unstranslated" section on launchpad then
[10:58] <seb128> which the translations team work on
[10:59] <willcooke> I have a feeling that /something/ had to be done, like a script needed to be run against the HTML to populate the po files or something..... I can't remember, but I just have this idea that it needed special attention.  I'm probably wrong
[10:59] <willcooke> seb128, @user settings:  Yes, hard to see on my screen.  Light grey on white
[10:59] <willcooke> not obvious what I can do in that panel
[10:59] <willcooke> If I tip the screen back, then I can see the outline better
[10:59] <seb128> willcooke, thx, I will report upstream
[11:00] <willcooke> like it's a contrast issue
[11:00] <willcooke> thanks seb128 #
[11:00] <seb128> willcooke, I will check for the strings to make there they end up in the translation template from the package build
[11:00] <seb128> np
[11:00]  * willcooke -> early lunch. Sort my glasses out.  bbiab
[11:02] <seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
[12:12] <andyrock> seb128, Laney when you got some spare time can you take a look at https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3653 and https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3654
[12:12] <andyrock> I checked on two VMs and the fix seems to work
[12:12] <andyrock> also the cosmic one is already in proposed
[12:13] <andyrock> there is no urgency :)
[12:13]  * andyrock relocates to the office
[12:13] <Laney> sure
[13:46] <jdstrand> Laney: hey, I wonder if you could point me in the right direction. I'm on disco and wanted to try default gnome. when I go to gdm, I see Gnome, Ubuntu and Ubuntu on Wayland. logging into Gnome gives me wayland. there is no Gnome on Xorg (or Gnome Classic for that matter). is this intended?
[13:47] <jdstrand> I think I can edit /etc/gdm3/custom.conf and disable wayland entirely, but I feel like something else is maybe wrong. I'm on intel if that helps
[13:48] <seb128> jdstrand, that was discussed on #ubuntu-devel yesterday, it's basically an upstream choice to provide xorg only as a fallback for when waylands fail
[13:48] <jdstrand> oh, interesting
[13:49] <jdstrand> ok, so if I really wanted x11, I can use /etc/gdm3/custom.conf. got it
[13:50] <seb128> jdstrand, https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2019/03/11/%23ubuntu-devel.html#t15:46
[13:50] <seb128> jdstrand, yeah, or delete the session/create manually one for gnome/xorg
[13:51] <jdstrand> oh hehe, I have the exact same issue as juliank with gnome-terminal-server and everything :)
[13:51] <Laney> I'm going to check that when I get a chance at some point, because I think it used to work (gnome-xorg option).
[13:53] <jdstrand> oh, I don't have gnome-session-flashback installed. that explains that one. perhaps create a gnome-session-xorg for people who want it back?
[13:54] <Laney> I will look at some point
[13:55]  * jdstrand also wonders why half the time the mouse cursor is shown as spinning...
[13:55] <jdstrand> that isn't meant for anyone to answer
[13:57] <jdstrand> though, if someone happened to know otoh about a keyboard shortcut to bring up the dash in focus without going through Super then ctrl+alt+tab, that would be cool (google is failing me, but please don't google on my account :)
[14:02] <seb128> jdstrand, what are you trying to access by doing that?
[14:03] <jdstrand> I have my my most used applications there. I guess I could access them via Frequent
[14:04] <jdstrand> and alt+tab to cycle through
[14:04] <jdstrand> the default gnome experience doesn't show the dash. I'm used to just clicking on stuff so trying to see about mouseless options
[14:06] <seb128> better keyboard navigation is on our roadmap for next cycles
[14:06] <seb128> but I don't know offhand about your specific question
[14:07] <jdstrand> seb128: note, I just experimenting with pure gnome-shell, not the ubuntu session
[14:07] <jdstrand> that's fine. I don't think it is supported, probably because of Frequent
[14:07] <seb128> yeah, I understood that :)
[14:10] <jdstrand> heh, k. I saw "our roadmap" and was confused for a sec
[14:17] <jdstrand> ah, ok, if I copy over /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-xorg.desktop to /usr/share/xsessions/gnome-xorg-something.desktop and adjust the Name in that file, it showed that name
[14:18] <seb128> right
[14:21] <seb128> thx
[14:25] <Laney> dear reftests
[14:25] <Laney> how do I make you save your images?
[14:26] <Laney> AH an absolute path
[14:26] <didrocks> hum, I'll prepare the livecd-rootfs change for languages, but won't upload it today before 2 days off. Not taht crazy ;)
[14:26] <didrocks> that*
[14:27] <seb128> didrocks, fixing installed languages?
[14:27] <didrocks> yep
[14:27] <seb128> but I guess that doesn't fix the keyboard step being in the wrong locale?
[14:27] <didrocks> those shouldn't be related
[14:27] <seb128> k, just checking
[14:28] <didrocks> the issue is really "ubiquity doesn't remove additional default languages"
[14:28] <Laney> I guess we should get that keyboard thing on some list
[14:29] <seb128> it's rls-dd-incoming tagged
[14:29] <seb128> I do plan to raise it to foundations in our sync up meeting
[14:29] <Laney> yes I know, but that doesn't go to desktop team which was kind of my suggestion
[14:30] <seb128> which isn't this week :/ maybe that should be raised via email
[14:30] <seb128> willcooke, ^ wdyt?
[14:30] <seb128> right
[14:30] <willcooke> otp, stand by
[14:30] <seb128> I'm still annoyed that they don't review those bugs periodically
[14:30] <Laney> there's foundations team meeting today isn't there?
[14:30] <Laney> on irc
[14:30] <Laney> could raise it in there
[14:30] <seb128> #ubuntu-meeting? do you know what time?
[14:31] <seb128> I might lurk and ask
[14:31] <Laney> no tomorrow
[14:31] <Laney> 1500 UTC
[14:31] <seb128> thx
[14:31]  * seb128 will crash their party
[14:32] <Laney> otherwise that's probably one for us to help with
[14:33] <seb128> yeah
[14:33] <seb128> we are on the path to own ubiquity *g*
[14:33]  * Laney cries at eog
[14:34] <Laney> resets the zoom percentage when you switch to a different image
[14:34]  * didrocks cries at rhythmbox
[14:34] <didrocks> (who is next?)
[14:34] <seb128> :(
[14:34] <Laney> now do a happy one
[14:34] <seb128> didrocks, I guess that one is my fault for reassinging that bug? :p
[14:34]  * Laney is happy with gvfs atm
[14:34] <didrocks> seb128: yep, really need to find a good and reproducible test case
[14:35] <Laney> just browsing files on my desktop at home in the library from here
[14:35] <Laney> working nicely
[14:35] <didrocks> this is a little bit hairy
[14:35] <seb128> re-ordering columns in german isn't enough?
[14:35] <didrocks> nope
[14:35] <seb128> sorry :(
[14:35] <Laney> bah, you grumps
[14:35] <didrocks> disco (with the patch removed) or bionic
[14:35] <seb128> lol
[14:35] <didrocks> I'll try with various mp3s
[14:35]  * seb128 is happy about new round avatar icons in disco
[14:35] <didrocks> and adding german characters to it
[14:36] <seb128> and today's update fixing the scaling issues on greeter and indicator!
[14:36] <seb128> also the new non-blue-trash wooot
[14:36] <seb128> :)
[14:36] <didrocks> that the one I'm really happy about ^
[14:40] <Laney> can't see the difference in these images
[14:40] <Laney> oh reftests
[14:42] <Laney> HAH my guess worked
[15:05] <jibel> kenvandine, just a quick follow-up on my issue with spotify I mentioned yesterday, it's actually the top of the window that goes behind the top bar of gnome-shell when I maximized spotify.  which is weird
[15:05] <jibel> but I cannot reproduce since I restarted gnome-shell
[15:05] <kenvandine> ah...
[15:06] <kenvandine> great
[15:06] <kenvandine> maybe gnome-shell was updated
[15:18] <seb128> willcooke, k, commented on the slideshow mp, 'make pot' is what updates the template; let me know if you want to do that/add the commit or if you prefer me to merge & do that
[15:18] <seb128> on that note going back from $lunchplace, so offline for ~15min or so
[15:59] <clobrano> hey everyone o/
[16:00] <willcooke> seb128, I've done the make pot and pushed a new commit
[16:00] <willcooke> hi clobrano
[16:00] <seb128> willcooke, thx
[16:01] <willcooke> seb128, also, what was the question earlier?  I read the scrollback, but I'm not sure I get the context
[16:01] <seb128> willcooke, let me try to remember, that was many moons ago in another context and other work :) (closed IRC since)
[16:02] <clobrano> I was looking at https://github.com/micheleg/dash-to-dock/issues/904, but I am still not sure how to test this together with ubuntu's version of the dash
[16:02] <gitbot> micheleg issue 904 in dash-to-dock "Gnome Shell 3.31.92 overview mode dock is black" [Open]
[16:02] <clobrano> however I noticed that setting 'transparency-mode' to DYNAMIC instead of DEFAULT fixes it
[16:03] <clobrano> if I'm not wrong, this setting is overrided by ubuntu@dash-to-dock
[16:03] <Trevinho> mh, yes the setting is set there
[16:05] <fossfreedom_> seb128: if you are in the area of the ubiquity-slideshow, can I please ask that you also look at my outstanding merge request (on behalf of Ubuntu Budgie) - thx
[16:05] <seb128> fossfreedom, I can try, unsure I have cycles for that today though
[16:07] <seb128> willcooke, oh, foundations don't seem to review their rls-dd-incoming tagged bugs (or they ignore the ubiquity ones), which means we are going to end up again in having firefight ubiquity regression at release sprint unless something is done
[16:07] <seb128> willcooke,  it was a topic previous cycle, can we maybe remind them that though ought to be looked at before the release wekk?
[16:07] <willcooke> seb128, ack.  I've got a meeting with Pat tomorrow, I will raise it then
[16:07] <seb128> thx
[16:08] <willcooke> oh, no I don't, that's next week, oki I will speak to Pay
[16:08] <Laney> thought we were going to ask in their team meeting tomorrow
[16:09] <willcooke> ok, lets do that then, thanks
[16:09] <seb128> I still plan to do that, having Will asking next time he has an opportunity doesn't hurt though
[16:10] <willcooke> Lets see what they say tomorrow, and then I can speak to Pat if needed
[16:10] <seb128> +1
[16:10] <Laney> right
[16:10] <willcooke> I'll put it on the agenda anyway
[16:10] <Laney> just seemed like re-opening the earlier settled discussion
[16:10] <seb128> well, will came asking what the ping was about
[16:11] <seb128> and I forgot/lost the context
[16:11] <Laney> ok, not interested in arguing, you and I both know what happened
[16:11] <seb128> anyway, sorted out
[16:11] <seb128> I ask in their meeting
[16:11] <seb128> then we see what's next :)
[16:11] <seb128> I hope they welcome outsiders
[16:11] <Laney> sometimes things get settled, randomly re-opened, and then become unsettled
[16:12] <seb128> I think last time I did that, some gave me the look of "what are you doing in our meeting" :p
[16:12] <Laney> I see that in this team from time to time and was trying to stop it happening this time
[16:12] <Laney> cool, hope it works
[16:12] <seb128> yeah, good point
[16:12] <seb128> thx for the reminder
[16:12] <seb128> I mostly didn't have the backlog in buffer at this point
[16:12] <seb128> but I had a reminder for tomorrow :)
[16:20] <clobrano> Trevinho: I am not sure if I got it right, but it seems that the override is not working. The file 10_ubuntu-dock.gschema.override sets it to "ADAPTIVE" and instead gsetting get returns "DEFAULT"
[16:22] <Trevinho> clobrano: mhmhmh, might be a session thing? let me check
[16:23] <clobrano> Trevinho: manually `gsetting` it works fine
[16:24] <seb128> fossfreedom, I merged the budgie upload, I review the webkitgtk/2 changes later
[16:24] <Laney>   <enum id='org.gnome.shell.extensions.dash-to-dock.transparency-mode'>
[16:24] <Laney>     <value value='0' nick='DEFAULT'/>
[16:24] <Laney>     <value value='1' nick='FIXED'/>
[16:24] <Laney>     <value value='3' nick='DYNAMIC'/>
[16:24] <Laney>   </enum>
[16:24] <Laney> clobrano:
[16:25] <clobrano> Laney: sorry, what does that mean?
[16:26] <Laney> adaptive isn't there
[16:27] <didrocks> that's the new version of the code which removed it
[16:27] <didrocks> whoever uploaded it I guess forget/didn't know we changed the default
[16:27] <clobrano> Laney: ah yes, but latest ubuntu version still has it
[16:28] <Laney> nope
[16:28] <clobrano> ^ but I changed the override file to DYNAMIC and still didn't work
[16:28] <didrocks> (also, I thought the agreement was to have slight transparency on the dock, where it's now FIXED)
[16:28] <Laney> the branch doesn't have ubuntu5
[16:28] <clobrano> oh
[16:28]  * Laney eyeballs Trevinho
[16:29] <didrocks> just in case you didn't know: adaptative was the "sync with panel dynamic transparency"
[16:29] <Trevinho> mhhm
[16:29] <didrocks> (and change panel dynamic transparency as well if you get the dock solid)
[16:29] <Laney> no knowledge on that, just saying why the override doesn't work any more
[16:30] <didrocks> I guess it shuold be set back to DEFAULT or FIXED (I don't remember the difference between those)
[16:30] <didrocks> should*
[16:30] <didrocks> also, if we want slight transparency on the dock, it should be investigated what values to put
[16:32] <Laney> clobrano: after changing the override you need to glib-compile-schemas /usr/share/glib-2.0/schemas/ for it to work, fwiw
[16:33] <clobrano> Laney: ok thanks, I didn't know
[16:37] <seb128> kenvandine, I don't forget about you/the gnome-charmap, I started poking, need to step out to pick the kid but I keep poking later :)
[16:37] <kenvandine> seb128: no worries, thanks
[17:15]  * Laney almost dropped seb128's gtk 3.24.5-1ubuntu2 :>
[17:22] <Laney> andyrock: seems Trevinho published those unity branches directly, you don't need my review then
[17:23] <Laney> archive backdoor
[17:23] <andyrock> Laney: niceee, thanks Trevinho
[17:23] <andyrock> why Trevinho can do that? :O
[17:23] <Trevinho> I'm the unity king!
[17:24] <Trevinho> looks like I'm whitelisted on all unity stuff...
[17:25] <Laney> can't remember what the rules are exactly
[17:25] <Laney> I do know they are naughty though
[17:26] <Laney> but nobody cared to change it over the years so I guess accepted now
[18:14] <willcooke> ruh roh, Disco daily not booting in vbox for me
[18:16] <willcooke> correction, is booting, no gdm.  Switching to vt 2 and 1 gets gdm on the screen, but doesnt work
[18:16] <willcooke> I can type in the boxes, but nothing is shown, switch away, switch back and it shows that there is some text after all
[18:16] <willcooke> smells like that same video issue we had earlier in the cycle
[18:17] <willcooke> complains of out of video ram
[18:18] <willcooke> increasing vram to 40 meg from 16...
[18:18] <willcooke> (oops)
[18:18] <willcooke> and now it works
[18:18] <willcooke> well done me
[18:25] <seb128> Laney, sorry, I did the work for gtk in the vcs but looks like I forgot to push, tried that now but it conflicts :/
[18:25] <seb128> I have to go for sport, will look more later
[18:28] <willcooke> see you seb128
[18:29] <frederik-f> Good evening
[18:31] <willcooke> hi frederik-f
[18:32] <frederik-f> Does anyone know, why the power icon and the online-accounts icon names got changed in bionic? It must have bionic in the past 5 days or so. Just updated my system and the icons went away. We have a fix for this though, but I am still curious because normally the gtk apps remain unchanged once installed via .deb, or?  Issue: https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/issues/1259
[18:32] <frederik-f> Fix: https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru/pull/1262
[18:32] <gitbot> ubuntu issue 1259 in yaru "preferences-system-power-symbolic.svg and preferences-desktop-online-accounts-symbolic.svg not being used" [18.04, 19.04, Open]
[18:32] <gitbot> ubuntu issue (Pull request) 1262 in yaru "Bionic: New symlinks for gnome-control-center" [Open]
[18:32] <frederik-f> uhm what did I trigger there? Gitbot? :D
[18:32] <frederik-f> *discovering the world of IRC*
[18:34] <willcooke> frederik-f, I don't know I'm afraid, but someone will, we just need to wait a bit
[18:35] <frederik-f> willcooke: no hurry, it was just weird, because those UI changes normally are not backported, if I remember correctly
[20:21] <willcooke> night all
[20:57] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: weird, I happen to be in gnome shell wayland and pasaffe is using the x11 backend (I know because I can't use the clipboard for a wayland app)
[20:57] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: if I start it with: GDK_BACKEND=wayland pasaffe, then it works with the wayland app
[20:58] <mdeslaur> jdstrand: weird
[20:59] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: of course, if iirc, all the browsers are using xwayland so fixing that (I suspect it is down in gir1.2-gtk-3.0, but I don't know this) would break the most common use case
[20:59] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: I wonder when things will ever work right :\
[21:06] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: meh, now it seems to be working correctly. jeez I forgot how terrible the clipboard handling is in wayland
[21:23] <robert_ancell> seb128, what sort of device is the in-ear headphone you were testing bug 1817338 with?
[21:24] <robert_ancell> bluetooth?
[22:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, no, cheap cable one
[22:13] <seb128> in a jack
[22:13] <seb128> on the inspiron11
[22:13] <robert_ancell> seb128, did it give you both the speaker and headphone as options? On mine the speakers are replaced with a headphone option.
[22:14] <seb128> g-c-c?
[22:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, and do you happen to know how to make debcommit make an ubuntu tag instead of a debian one?
[22:14] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
[22:14] <seb128> yes, it lists the laptop audio and the headset
[22:15] <seb128> is that gbp workflow/git tag you want?
[22:15] <seb128> if so that's debian/gbp.conf include that line
[22:15] <seb128> debian-tag = ubuntu/%(version)s
[22:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, want is a strong word :) I just notice it doesn't match the existing tags and then I manually change it which is a pain to do.
[22:16] <seb128> then you tag with
[22:16] <seb128> gbp buildpackage --git-tag-only
[22:16] <seb128> that should do the right thing
[22:16] <seb128> our branches should have the right config already
[22:17] <robert_ancell> This is on g-c-c and I see the config is right, but everytime I run "debcommit -r" it does it wrong
[22:17] <seb128> I don't know about that
[22:17] <robert_ancell> seb128, do you have anything in ~/.gbp.conf?
[22:17] <seb128> the documented/Recommended workflow is to git commit debian/changelog with a "upload to <serie>" message
[22:18] <seb128> and then
[22:18] <seb128>  gbp buildpackage --git-tag-only
[22:18] <robert_ancell> oh, ok
[22:18] <seb128> unsure what debcommit does, maybe it's buggy
[22:18] <seb128> or not compatible with gbp
[22:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, about your audio issue, is pavucontrol listing more than one output?
[22:20] <seb128> if not I guess pulseaudio is being weird on your config :/
[22:21] <seb128> maybe you have more luck connect to a tv via hdmi or to a bluetooth headset?
[22:21] <seb128> ah, I saw you uploaded a fix
[22:21] <seb128> you figured it out?
[22:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, there's definitely some code missing, but not sure if there's other issues. I found a way to get PA to make a test output device.
[22:27] <seb128> robert_ancell, k, I will test your fix and let you know if it works :)
[22:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, I just noticed it doesn't handle a NULL case, so will re-upload with another fix
[22:28] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw I opened bug #1819925 today as well which is probably for you
[22:28] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, kenvandine has already pinged me about that ;)
[22:28] <seb128> k, good :)
[22:29] <seb128> I saw Jeremy also found some issues/commented on the upstream mp
[22:29] <seb128> oh well, we have time for some bugfixing/iterations still :)
[23:15] <seb128> kenvandine, so I poke a bit at gnome-characters snap, I copied gtk3-demo in the snap userdir and started that, the font picker there doesn't list Noto Emoji either, nor does fc-list ... so I guess it's a fontconfig level issue, maybe a core18 one?
[23:16] <seb128> like what conf.d/conf.avail is being used
[23:22] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm calling it a day but I'm going to have a look at the fontconfig thing tomorrow (unless you/James poke at it/have an idea by then)
[23:22] <seb128> night desktopers


[01:18] <guiverc> Bashing-om, my only reaction was to oSoMoN  (I prefer Olivier Tilloy) in UWN 746
[01:20] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Ack - lemme see what I can do :D
[01:22] <krytarik> Yeah, I believe the plan was to use full names rather than user names on the Discourse posts.
[01:25] <Bashing-om> guiverc: krytarik: Sorry that I missed using the proper name. How now ?
[01:26] <guiverc> Looks good Bashing-om, I'm happy
[01:27] <Bashing-om> krytarik: -- guiverc had brought ^ up to my attention and I plumb over-missed making the edit :(
[01:30] <krytarik> Fwiw, looking at the Hub section of the past issues, it seems the pattern is to only state the full name, but I guess it may be helpful in some cases to also give the user name.
[15:26] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Is Linux secure? @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/is-linux-secure
[17:27] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Canonical at SIGGRAPH 2022 @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/canonical-at-siggraph-2022
[19:40] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::OMG!Ubuntu:: This GNOME Extension Brings ‘Material You’ Vibes to Linux Desktops @ https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/08/material-you-theme-gnome-extension-linux (by Joey Sneddon)
[19:51] <Bashing-om> UWN: Pulling "WIP" log checked and no further edits are known. Will push soonest.
[20:13] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forum post done - next is the Re-directs.
[20:33] <Bashing-om> UWN: Re-directs completed - pending now is the notification on the M/L and release to the Social Medias.
[22:42] <guiverc> https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/08/01/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-746/
[22:46] <guiverc> posted 746 to twitter, telegram, reddit
[22:46] <Bashing-om> Fridge: Spot check -- All looks good :D
[22:47] <guiverc> :) & thanks Bashing-om
[22:47] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I still not able to go Google for the M/L - Will you also do that notification ?
[22:47] <guiverc> ack
[22:50] <guiverc> email sent
[22:56] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Clear now to do away with our evidence ?
[22:57] <guiverc> yep clear away
[22:57] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 746 @ https://fridge.ubuntu.com/2022/08/01/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-746/
[22:59] <Bashing-om> Doing ^
[22:59] <guiverc> uwn 746 posted to fb too
[23:10] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do August - set to start issue747 :D