[01:23] <Jordan_U> Any objections to a banforward for flyback (see #ubuntu)?
[01:23] <bazhang> sure. I already @mark'd him
[01:30] <bazhang> what about metatagg
[01:30] <bazhang> forward to ##fix_your_connection ?
[01:54] <Corey> .w
[01:54] <Corey> sudokill: How can we help you?
[01:54] <sudokill> hi can i request an unban from #ubunut?
[01:54] <sudokill> ubuntu*
[01:55] <Corey> Stand by, checking.
[01:55] <sudokill> ok
[01:56] <Corey> sudokill: Looks like you were a bit off topic a few day back...
[01:56] <Corey> !coc > sudokill
[01:56] <Corey> sudokill: Please review the code of conduct. :-)
[01:57] <sudokill> alright
[01:57] <sudokill> i know why i was banned i was just being silly
[01:57] <Corey> sudokill: That's what #ubuntu-offtopic is for going forward. :-)
[01:57] <sudokill> :)
[01:58] <Corey> sudokill: Go play.  Please behave.
[01:58] <sudokill> ok thanks
[01:58] <Corey> I've pulled the ban in question.
[01:58] <Corey> No worries.
[01:58] <Corey> That was painless.
[04:55] <bazhang> l2user and hanzo
[04:58] <IdleOne> looks like they were testing a bot, tester
[05:53] <bazhang> Juest, hi
[05:53] <Juest> hi, i came to deal with the trouble
[05:53] <bazhang> Juest, what trouble
[05:53] <Juest> UMMMMM
[05:53] <Juest> ups
[05:54] <bazhang> Juest, yes?
[05:54] <Juest> umm, check log from 17/6
[05:54] <bazhang> Juest, better you tell me directly
[05:55] <Juest> welll
[05:55] <bazhang> ?
[05:56] <Juest> i just don't remember well...
[05:58] <bazhang> Juest, no way to help you then
[05:58] <Juest> -.-
[05:59] <bazhang> Juest, you said "the trouble"
[05:59] <Juest> someone here remembers about my iusse the day 17/6?
[05:59] <bazhang> Juest, your ban in #ubuntu ?
[06:00] <Juest> yeah
[06:00] <bazhang> Juest, okay, and?
[06:01] <Juest> i don't know, they told me to come back when i have a suitable platform to face my iusses
[06:02] <bazhang> Juest, you know why you were banned in #ubuntu ?
[06:04] <Juest> yes, because lie and guidelines fail
[06:06] <bazhang> Juest, please take a few minutes and read the guidelines and code of conduct for the ubuntu channels
[06:06] <bazhang> !guidelines | Juest
[06:06] <bazhang> !coc > Juest
[06:06] <Juest> :(
[06:06] <bazhang> ?
[06:07] <Juest> wondering, what are all channels?
[06:07] <bazhang> Juest, are you going to try to resolve this or not
[06:08] <bazhang> Juest, if so, go ahead and read those two linked documents and we can resume in a few minutes
[06:08] <Juest> yes, but i just trying to behave well, i just want to get support
[06:10] <Juest> i just want to know about every channel
[06:20] <Juest> what channels are supervised by you guys?
[06:28] <bazhang> Juest, have you read the code of conduct and the guidelines in their entirety?
[06:29] <Juest> :(
[06:29] <Juest> too lazy
[06:29] <Juest> it's 2:30AM
[06:30] <bazhang> Juest, okay, then no way to move forward. Please dont idle in this channel.
[06:31] <Juest> :(
[06:32] <Juest> i was going to somewhere when i came here at 17/6
[06:32] <bazhang> Juest, you won't read the guidelines or the code of conduct, there's no way to go forward.
[06:33] <bazhang> Juest, your ban will not be lifted in #ubuntu .
[06:34] <Juest> :(
[06:34] <bazhang> Juest, was there anything else?
[06:37] <bazhang> Juest, I can see you are active, please respond
[06:37] <Juest> yes, just wanting to know what channels are managed by you guys
[06:37] <bazhang> !alis | Juest
[06:38] <Juest> oh thanks
[06:41] <bazhang> Juest, you are welcome. Please don't idle here as our business is concluded. Thanks.
[06:41] <Juest> well
 What? THere is no damn topic. It's just a mishmash of people with problems who don't know how to use google!!
[07:45] <bazhang> lovely
[12:19] <elky> heads up, the wiki login seems b0rked
[12:22] <oCean> changelogs.ubuntu.com seems unreachable.
[16:09] <LjL> @mark #ubuntu Tester Being spammy
[18:33] <Jordan_U> !terminal
[18:34] <Jordan_U> ^^ Needs to be updated to include Unity, though I can't think of a concise way to phrase it.
[19:07] <IdleOne> Unity -> alt-F2 -> type terminal -> hit enter key ?
[19:08] <Tm_T> IdleOne: that might work in any of those desktops
[19:08] <IdleOne> Tm_T: I think it would
[19:11] <charlie-tca> unity Ctrl+Alt+t opens a terminal
[19:17] <topyli> i just wrote a long unity review, but i now realize i never looked at the menu stuff
[19:17] <topyli> iirc it has application catecories just like the old menu, so accessories -> terminal should exist
[19:24] <tonyyarusso> By default it shows all applications together - you have to click a rather inconspicuous dropdown in the upper right and select Accessories.
[19:26] <charlie-tca> topyli: Ithought your review was very fair
[19:27] <topyli> i do my best to be fair, but i make no effort to be objective. i approach stuff from my own needs and workflow
[19:28] <topyli> hence, no word about menus for example :)
[19:29] <topyli> tried to make my own idiosyncracies transparent in the first part's preamble though
[19:31] <topyli> tonyyarusso: ah ok, so it's designed for search. fortunately it works great
[19:31]  * tonyyarusso doesn't want to search for applications :(
[19:31] <charlie-tca> It is quite impartial
[19:32] <topyli> most people only run a handful of apps anyway, and those fit nicely in the launcher as favorites
[19:34] <tonyyarusso> Oh, no argument there - Unity is great for most people.  It just still sucks for *me*.
[19:35] <charlie-tca> right. I think it is great for new people, I just don' t work the way it does.
[19:37] <tonyyarusso> I saw a screencast of gnome-shell and that looks more promising for me.
[19:39] <topyli> it's pretty great, but not without annoyances of course. love the workspaces. great window management
[19:40] <topyli> the worst thing is when you enter the 'overlay' or the activities view, whatever it's called, you can do nothing with the keyboard. you *must* click stuff to activate a window or a workspace
[19:40] <tonyyarusso> eww
[19:40] <charlie-tca> yeah, that kind of sucks for people that can not use a mouse
[19:40] <topyli> the trick is of course is not to go there if you want to use keyboard for window/workspace management :)
[19:42] <tonyyarusso> Does nobody do usability testing anymore?
[19:42] <topyli> charlie-tca: those people will activate the 'mouse keys', readily available in the accessibility menu
[19:42] <charlie-tca> yes, we do
[19:43] <charlie-tca> But, if the devs don't listen because usability messes with "pretty", what difference does it make?
[19:43] <charlie-tca> That they got to how?
[19:44] <topyli> you can focus the panel with the keyboard, and select panel items then
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Isn't that like telling the user that needs on onscreen keyboard "Just open a terminal and type onboard, hit enter" to start it?
[19:44] <topyli> i forget the shortcut, but it's easy enough. same as in gnome2
[19:45] <charlie-tca> I better go hide again. I get a bit frustrated with usability
[19:45] <topyli> i'm sure there are other ways to enable accessibility. i'm just not familiar with the tricks. gnome has an accessibility team too you know :)
[19:46] <tonyyarusso> And the reason you wouldn't program it to allow the keyboard by default would be?
[19:46] <charlie-tca> yup, I do. Unity threw out everything they do
[19:47] <charlie-tca> tonyyarusso: we can't even get ubuntu to put it back in the menus
[19:47] <tonyyarusso> I thought Unity's goal was to make accessibility better :(
[19:47] <topyli> ok, looks like orca is available quite easily in the menu
[19:47] <charlie-tca> no, it was to make usability better/the same for all sizes of computers and phones
[19:47] <tonyyarusso> So, universal suckage?
[19:47] <charlie-tca> Orca is a screen reader
[19:48] <charlie-tca> find Onboard
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Accessibility started at 0% at the beginning of Natty, and ended somewhere close to 50%
[19:48] <topyli> oh it's sneakily called "on-screen keyboard"
[19:49] <topyli> fooled me!


[14:28] <deryck> ok....
[14:28] <deryck> we can just meet without all the formal meeting begin stuff. :)
[14:29] <deryck> henning is away today unexpectedly if you all didn't know yet.
[14:29] <abentley> deryck: sounds like you're having an interesting day.
[14:29] <deryck> abentley, dude!  A rough start, but it's all good now.
[14:29] <abentley> deryck: yes, he said something to us.
[14:29] <deryck> the 5-10 mins late was my own fault, as usual.  the keys were Wendy's :)
[14:30] <deryck> So let's start with landing lane....
[14:30] <deryck> adeuring, I see you finished up that work yesterday.  Is it in ec2 or buildbot at this point?
[14:30] <adeuring> it's in ec2; I had to fix a failing test
[14:30] <deryck> ok, cool.
[14:31] <deryck> and now you're on to a new bug.  a timeout again?
[14:31] <adeuring> right
[14:31] <adeuring> deryck: 'll ask you to run an Explain analyze"
[14:31] <deryck> adeuring, ok, cool.  I can do that whenever you need.
[14:31] <adeuring> cool, thanks
[14:31] <deryck> thanks again for taking on another timeout! :)
[14:32] <deryck> abentley, and your work is in the process of landing too?
[14:32] <adeuring> timeouts are fun :)
[14:32] <abentley> deryck: I've just fixed the failing tests, so I'll get it landing after the stand-up.
[14:32] <deryck> abentley, ok, great.  and the on to some new bug, I assume?
[14:32] <deryck> s/the/then/
[14:33] <abentley> adeuring: I'm glad you think so, because we're running out of anything but timeouts.  Maybe you can teach me.
[14:33] <abentley> deryck: Gonna focus on the presentation for now.
[14:33] <deryck> abentley, ah, right.  Good call.
[14:33] <deryck> abentley, and can we move our call either later today or later in the week, being that I can't get in my own office yet? :)
[14:33] <adeuring> abentley: sure, but my method is mainly: stare long enough at the OOPS report, if things aren't obvious :)
[14:33] <abentley> deryck: of course.
[14:34] <deryck> abentley, great, thanks.
[14:34] <deryck> adeuring, actually, I think you have a good sense of how to track down timeouts.  a very practical approach....
[14:34] <adeuring> deryck: mybe, but it's hard to explain...
[14:34] <deryck> adeuring, you should consider sharing you approach more widely.  start with abentley, of course. :)
[14:34] <abentley> deryck: the presentation is mainly why I'm interested in YUITestLayer right now.
[14:35] <deryck> abentley, right.
[14:35] <adeuring> sure, I'll try...
[14:35] <deryck> so that brings me to me.... :)
[14:35] <deryck> I'm trying to land some YUI test improvements I did at Velocity but can't run them like abentley because of seq fault....
[14:35] <deryck> so I'll try working with sinzui more today and get that resolved.
[14:35] <deryck> then I'll land my work, when I'm sure it's actually helped.
[14:36] <deryck> I also have a presentation to work on, and some email/blogging to follow up from the conference last week.
[14:36] <deryck> that's it for me, I think.
[14:36] <abentley> Me too.
[14:37] <deryck> adeuring, anything else?
[14:37] <adeuring> no
[14:37] <deryck> adeuring, abentley -- great, thanks guys! Have a great day.
[14:37] <adeuring> abentley: bug 799785 (what I'm working on) is for a start obvious: one SQL statement needs 9 seconds or so. I have no clue what's wrong with the statement, so I'll ask deryck to run an "explain analyze".
[14:37] <abentley> deryck: you too.
[14:37] <adeuring> abentley: next step will be to see what postgresql tell me.
[14:37] <deryck> thanks!
[14:38] <deryck> adeuring, abentley -- do you guys mind moving the timeout/tech discussion back to #launchpad-dev?
[14:38] <deryck> others could find this useful.
[14:38] <adeuring> ah, right ...


[00:00]  * dholbert has noted the square-image thing on that bug
[10:45] <CIA-33> usb-creator: evand * r230 trunk/ (debian/changelog usbcreator/frontends/gtk/frontend.py):
[10:45] <CIA-33> usb-creator: Properly set the icons in the source treeview. Thanks John S.
[10:45] <CIA-33> usb-creator: Gruber (LP: #436469).
[10:53] <CIA-33> usb-creator: evand * r231 trunk/ (debian/changelog usbcreator/misc.py): Handle the device no longer existing in fs_size (LP: #439001).
[11:08] <CIA-33> usb-creator: evand * r232 trunk/ (40 files in 2 dirs): Update translations from Launchpad.
[11:20] <CIA-33> usb-creator: evand * r233 trunk/debian/changelog: releasing version 0.2.10
[12:50] <davmor2> Oh my giddy aunt.  Wubi's only just gone and installed flawlessly.  Will keep testing in case it's a fluke but fingers crossed
[12:57] <evand> woohoo
[12:58] <cjwatson> did we change anything to help it? :-)
[12:58] <davmor2> cjwatson: shhhhhh!
[12:59] <davmor2> cjwatson: don't worry there is still time for it to die a horrific flaming death.
[14:29] <davmor2> 64bit wubi died :( but hey at least it's not more broken :)
[15:56] <NCommander> davmor2, why'd it die?
[15:57] <NCommander> cjwatson, this just occurred to me, but did you get a FFe for partman-uboot, or do we still need one?
[15:57] <cjwatson> I did not
[15:57] <cjwatson> it's your package :)
[15:58] <davmor2> NCommander: complete randomness on if it works or not :(
[15:58] <NCommander> davmor2, ouch :-/
[15:59] <davmor2> NCommander: First try on 32 bit Worked flawlessly second didn't first on 64bit didn't
[16:00] <NCommander> davmor2, which host OS?
[16:00] <NCommander> cjwatson, if the package is destined for main, do I need an FFe from ubuntu-release, or motu-release? (the wiki says motu-release, but I think thats an assumption the package is heading to universe)
[16:00] <davmor2> Vista
[16:00] <NCommander> davmor2, Vista or Vista x64? :-)
[16:00] <davmor2> I can try on xp too if you want
[16:00] <davmor2> Vista 32bit
[16:00] <cjwatson> NCommander: the former
[16:00] <NCommander> cjwatson, that's what I thought. Thank you.
[17:11] <NCommander> cjwatson, partman-uboot was accepted to universe but it FTBFS'ed. I'll fix that and upload version 2.
[20:34] <CIA-33> base-installer: cjwatson * r384 ubuntu/ (debian/bootstrap-base.templates debian/changelog library.sh):
[20:34] <CIA-33> base-installer: Install kernel headers to match the kernel (LP: #413135). This may be
[20:34] <CIA-33> base-installer: overridden by setting base-installer/kernel/headers to false.
[22:26] <CIA-33> casper: TheMuso *<EMAIL_ADDRESS>trunk/ (3 files in 3 dirs):
[22:26] <CIA-33> casper: * scripts/casper-bottom/30accessibility && ubiquity-hooks/30accessibility:
[22:26] <CIA-33> casper:  - .pulse_a11y_nostart -> pulse_a11y_nostart due to being in a system
[22:26] <CIA-33> casper:  directory, to completely match the change in pulseaudio, which I missed
[22:26] <CIA-33> casper:  earlier.
[22:26] <TheMuso> woops still need to set some stuff...
[22:29] <CIA-33> casper: TheMuso *<EMAIL_ADDRESS>trunk/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.204
[23:35] <NCommander> cjwatson, so now that partman-uboot is in main, and built, what comes next? I assume integration into ubiquity?
[23:36] <cjwatson> yes
[23:36] <cjwatson> I assume you've seeded it somewhere already
[23:36] <NCommander> cjwatson, no, I didn't think you seeded udebs ...
[23:36] <cjwatson> sure, 'installer' seed
[23:37] <cjwatson> I'll do it now
[23:37] <cjwatson> adding udeb support to germinate was the original reason I took over germinate maintenance from Scott, before warty released ;-)
[23:38] <cjwatson> in the usual "all I'm doing is applying your patches, you might as well maintain it" kind of way
[23:38] <NCommander> cjwatson, I didn't know that
[23:39] <cjwatson> apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/292684/ to ubiquity, run 'debian/rules update', and see how it works out from there