[02:33] <Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/git/cgit.cgi/mesa/ is a start for now :D
[03:19] <Sarvatt> ok think libgl1-mesa-dri-gallium is all set to go - http://sarvatt.com/git/cgit.cgi/mesa/
[03:21] <Sarvatt> package description wording needs some work but oh well :)
[03:29] <Sarvatt> now to spend a year test building
[04:09] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-ati/+bug/539772 is starting to be the new intel lid close hang bug with tons of duplicates :)
[04:09] <Sarvatt> finding lots of dupes all over the place
[04:10] <__mikem> hey Sarvatt what sort of "infrastructure" were you refering to with that PPA package?
[04:11] <Sarvatt> i need to decide how to package gallium stuff properly first before i dig into vmwgfx
[04:12] <__mikem> oh
[04:12] <Sarvatt> is there no howto on google for building vmwgfx?
[04:12] <__mikem> I loath building stuff from source with a passion
[04:22] <Sarvatt> i think i found the most useful backtrace ever - http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43423955/ThreadStacktrace.txt
[04:22] <__mikem> Sarvatt: what will that tell you?
[04:27] <rafiyr1> So cute, I'm tempted to print it and hang it on the wall.
[10:52] <tormod> so are clutter apps broken on all non-KMS drivers now?
[10:56] <tormod> clutter seems to be built on sand
[10:56]  * tormod wonders why we use clutter in 10.04
[11:04] <RAOF> tormod: Wait, what!
[11:06] <tormod> Failed to initialise clutter: Unable to find suitable fbconfig for the GLX context
[11:06]  * RAOF thinks we use clutter in 10.04 because no-one's written a good 2D-accelerated animation framework yet.
[11:07] <tormod> we shouldn't use animation then until the graphic stack is ready :)
[11:07] <RAOF> Sadly, history suggests that the graphics stack won't be ready until we've been breaking it with animation for a release or so :)
[11:07] <tormod> or just declare that we only support ati/intel/blobs :->
[11:08] <RAOF> tormod: What driver are you using?  I thought Sarvatt had tested a non-DRI2 driver.
[11:08] <tormod> savage, worked until yesterday's xserver fix
[11:09] <RAOF> tormod: Want to try my fixier fix?
[11:09] <tormod> sure
[11:10] <RAOF> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/ppa
[11:10] <jcristau> tormod: arguably, non-kms drivers aren't part of the graphic stack anymore
[11:10] <RAOF> It'll need a version bump or manual install; it's now been superceded by the new xserver.
[11:11] <RAOF> jcristau: That's a pretty aggressive deprecation schedule :)
[11:12] <jcristau> RAOF: you're saying there's stuff outside of intel/ati/nvidia that's still relevant?
[11:13] <RAOF> jcristau: None that's current, certainly.
[11:14] <RAOF> We probably need to make it explicit what old hardware we really care about, though.
[11:16] <RAOF> We need to be somewhere between “eh, it's old hardware, it doesn't matter if we break it” and “no hardware that was once supported will ever lose support”, and I think we need to make that decision conciously.
[11:18] <vish> folks, the new_poll=0 quirk for rv515 and rv535 is not a complete fix , it just seems to delay the occurrence of problems by about 5-6hrs
[11:19] <vish> alteast in rv515 that is , the problems happen in 5-6 hrs ^
[11:21] <tormod> RAOF, same error with u7~xtesting~dri2fixes
[11:22] <tormod> granted savage is a special case and recently got some extra patches so it just worked (until now)
[11:22] <tormod> but does clutter work on other DRI1 drivers now?
[11:23] <RAOF> It *should* work with dri2fixes.  Or, at worst, should crash when you close the window.
[11:24] <RAOF> Because dri2fixes was u5, with the patch that caused the leak dropped + a patch to prevent the crash, which only changed the DRI2 code.
[11:26] <jcristau> the crash on closing the window was in dri2 stuff.
[11:26] <tormod> I can go back to -u5 just to confirm it
[11:27] <RAOF> tormod: That might be nice, maybe?
[11:28] <RAOF> Oh, poot.  That stupid kernel bug has flipped my hdd read only.
[11:33] <tormod> bollox I get same error on -u5, so I guess it is just savage then, thought I had it working once though...
[11:33] <tormod> have to say that lucid is not very useful anyway on this laptop, because of the gbloat
[11:34]  * tormod looks for LXDE
[11:35] <jcristau> you could try to figure out why it doesn't like savage's fbconfigs i guess
[11:35] <jcristau> s/it/clutter/
[11:35] <tormod> I think knarf did that, and we added his patch
[11:37] <tormod> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-xorg/lib/mesa.git;a=blob;f=debian/patches/103_savage-expose_fbmodes_with_nonzero_alpha.patch;hb=ubuntu
[11:41] <tormod> hmm he notes in the bug report savage users have to use 24bit
[11:41] <tormod> and apparently 16bit is default
[11:50] <tormod> woohoo quadrapassel works on 24bit
[11:51] <tormod> maybe we need to release note this
[11:51] <tormod> I am not so sure defaulting to 24bit on savage is a good idea, it was set to 16bit for a reason
[11:57] <tormod> RAOF, when forcing 24bit, -u5 works fine, ~dri2fixes crashes after some time
[11:58] <tormod> (only the app crashes)
[11:59] <RAOF> Thanks.  Was that what changed?  Does -u5 work with 16bit?
[12:00] <tormod> no with 16bit (default) neither -u5, drifixes, u7 work
[12:01] <RAOF> Ok.
[12:02] <RAOF> There's probably some more evil lurking in the DRI1 + GLX 1.4 codepath.
[12:02] <tormod> and likely bugs in savage mesa
[12:02] <tormod> (quadrapassel:4076): Clutter-WARNING **: The required ID of 1060953 does not refer to an existing actor; this usually implies that the pick() of an actor is not correctly implemented or that there is an error in the glReadPixels() implementation of the GL driver.
[12:02] <RAOF> It's a non-stop cavalcade of lightly-tested code!
[12:03] <RAOF> That's the dri2fixes error?
[12:03] <tormod> yes
[12:03] <RAOF> I suspect I know how to fix that.
[12:03] <tormod> it starts out with a couple of:
[12:03] <tormod> (quadrapassel:4076): ClutterGLX-CRITICAL **: Unable to make the stage window 0x3c00040 the current GLX drawable
[12:04] <RAOF> Yeah, but *everyone's* clutter gives that CRITICAL warning :)
[12:04] <tormod> looks good ;)
[12:15] <tormod> with -u7 it spews a lot of messages, but does not crash
[12:40] <jcristau> there's no dri1 + glx 1.4...
[12:41] <jcristau> dunno what raof was talking about there
[12:41] <tormod> I think he meant using DRI1 when the rest of the stack is reworked for GLX1.4
[13:01] <ricotz> tormod, hello, is the new gallium packaging change the solution for 10.10?
[13:10] <ricotz> tormod, "/usr/lib32/dri-gallium" should be added to "confflags-dri" for i386 compatibility, so it will be possible to patch the ia32-libs
[13:44] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, nvidia has released a driver that supports x-server 1.8
[13:59] <tormod> ricotz, I don't know if any gallium drivers will be ready for 10.10 but maybe r300g
[13:59] <tormod> but xorg-edgers will make sure people can test it
[13:59] <tormod> yes, we can add the lib32 path
[14:01] <tormod> some people have been testing r300g in our radeon gallium ppa since a few weeks and it looks pretty goof
[14:01] <tormod> *good :)
[14:03] <ricotz> tormod, ok, or perhaps another solution would be to add a ia32-libs-mesa-dri-gallium package to edgers mesa instead of patching ia32-libs with the same split package
[14:07] <tormod> ok, I am clueless about 64-bit compatibility, I never had such hw
[14:07] <ricotz> this is only for compatibilitly issues with precompile gl apps like googleeath, ...
[14:08] <ricotz> tormod, what is the reason of splitting out gallium to a new deb?
[14:09] <tormod> so that we can easily ship gallium and classic drivers from the same build and repo
[14:10] <ricotz> ok, so i think it is better to provide 2 independent debs, which wouldnt required the path juggling
[14:10] <tormod> in the radeon gallium PPA I have been shipping both in one package, for people to play with LIBGL_DRIVERS_PATH, but that's not n00b-friendly enough
[14:10] <tormod> and have them conflict against each other?
[14:11] <ricotz> yes, and the gallium package would provide the real mesa package name
[14:11] <tormod> I find the path juggling rather elegant :) but again I have experience with 64bit stuff
[14:11] <tormod> *no experience
[14:12] <ricotz> ok
[14:13] <tormod> hmm I wonder if the conflicts would confuse people
[14:13] <ricotz> this make it a bit harder patching ia32-libs, but its possible
[14:14] <tormod> anyway with the current way, we should also add some depends and stuff so that reverting from xorg-edgers etc does the right thing
[14:15] <ricotz> the mesa package is full of conflicts ;-)
[14:15] <ricotz> ok, i will do some changes to ia32-libs
[14:17] <tormod> good. I will your suggestion in mind though, I am not against it
[14:19] <ricotz> tormod, i will adapt ia32-lib to the current packaging in edgers, but the path addition is needed get it to work
[14:39] <tormod> ricotz, uploaded with path addition now
[14:43] <ricotz> tormod, taking a bit longer here ;-)
[14:54] <hyperair> so i hear we can now use intel gallium3d drivers..
[14:55] <hyperair> is it faster or slower than conventional intel?
[14:56] <Dr_Jakob> hyperair: slower, and i965g wont work at all.
[14:56] <hyperair> heh okay, i'll take that as fair warning and keep my distance for now =p
[14:56] <hyperair> thanks for the info =)
[14:56] <Dr_Jakob> if you have a i915g and want to play around with drivers please feel free
[16:13] <Sarvatt> wow, libgl1-mesa-dri-gallium actually works :D
[16:13] <Sarvatt> thanks tormod!
[16:18] <Sarvatt> now to document it
[16:20] <Sarvatt> maybe we should upload an apport that refuses to accept bug reports if libgl1-mesa-dri-gallium is installed just incase :)
[16:32] <Dr_Jakob> Sarvatt: whats in libgl1-mesa-dri-gallium? Only r300g?
[16:35] <Sarvatt> i915_dri.so  i965_dri.so  nouveau_dri.so  r300_dri.so  swrastg_dri.so
[16:35] <Dr_Jakob> heh, you can do without i965_dri.so, not even trivial/tri works.
[16:36] <Sarvatt> probably a good idea, someone might actually try it :)
[16:37] <Dr_Jakob> swrastg_dri.so could probably be renamed to swrast_dri.so
[16:39] <Sarvatt> was fixing that right as you said it :)
[17:04] <Sarvatt> ah hah, having libmyth-0.22-0 installed in karmic brings in the blob drivers on upgrade to lucid, thats where people were getting the blob installed on non nvidia from still
[17:04]  * Sarvatt just read the discussion in #ubuntu-devel
[17:07] <bjsnider> because of vdpau?
[17:08] <Sarvatt> ricotz: added you as a member, thought you were going to request it through launchpad but you never did :D
[17:08] <Sarvatt> yeah
[17:09] <Sarvatt> nvidia-185-libvdpau
[17:10] <bjsnider> libvdpau1 needs to be altered so it upgrades and replaces those packages
[17:10] <Sarvatt> yeah for sure
[17:11] <bjsnider> hahaha
[17:11] <bjsnider> i just looked at the control file for it, and it does replace the debian versions o those packages, but not the ubuntu versions
[17:11] <Sarvatt> doh!
[17:11] <bjsnider> Replaces: nvidia-libvdpau, nvidia-libvdpau1, nvidia-libvdpau-ia32
[17:11] <bjsnider> and conflicts too
[17:12] <bjsnider> this is because of the big disconnect between debian and ubuntu over the nvidia blob packaging
[17:12] <bjsnider> they've gotten too far apart
[17:12] <bjsnider> !info libvdpau1 lucid
[17:13] <bjsnider> yeah so if you look at the version, there are no ubuntu changes, it's synced from debian
[17:13] <ricotz> Sarvatt, oh, thanks, i have asked you awhile ago on irc here ;-)
[20:04] <Sarvatt> hehe apparently intel responded to someone asking about the lack of GMA500 drivers for linux saying it was up to the distro they are using to fix the problem
[20:26] <bryceh> !!
[20:26] <bryceh> Sarvatt, who exactly said that?
[20:27] <bryceh> got a link?  I should forward that to rick
[20:28] <Sarvatt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-psb/+bug/330906/comments/70
[20:29] <Sarvatt> btw meego has psb support with current userspace :)
[20:30] <Sarvatt> was digging through all the meego source a week or two ago and saw the mass of patches
[20:30] <bryceh> hmm, second hand, no names associated with it
[20:30] <bryceh> oh?
[20:30] <bryceh> *sigh* meego
[20:31] <Sarvatt> yup didn't mean to imply it was an official response, sorry
[20:31] <bryceh> np
[20:32] <bryceh> would be nice to have those patches in a ppa or something
[20:32] <Sarvatt> tempted to get a psb machine to work out adding support for it
[20:33] <bryceh> no
[20:33] <bryceh> I value your sanity too much.
[20:35] <bryceh> ;-)
[20:35] <bryceh> actually would be great to get some -psb owners involved in helping with Ubuntu-X
[20:35] <bryceh> it's a tough, tough platform to support
[20:35] <bryceh> er, s/platform/driver/
[20:36] <Sarvatt> http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source
[20:39] <Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/linux-2.6.34-img-graphics-driver.patch -- too big to view on gitorious
[20:43] <bryceh> Sarvatt, did you run across any patches to stuff other than the kernel?
[20:43] <Sarvatt> nope I need to dig through the rpms for it still
[20:45] <bryceh> apw, ^^ maybe this patch should go on the meerkat kernel todo list.  maybe worth thinking about for 10.04.1
[20:46] <Sarvatt> nothing special in libdrm
[20:46] <Sarvatt> maybe they make everyone download the blob driver that needs an agreement externally that does it all
[20:47] <Sarvatt> need to pick apart the moorestown meego image
[20:51] <Sarvatt> what the heck is up with these packages
[20:51] <Sarvatt> KERNEL=="event*", SUBSYSTEM=="input", ATTRS{name}=="TSC2007 Touchscreen", ENV{x11_options.MinX}="150"
[20:52] <Sarvatt> they're using xserver 1.8, evtouch has a bunch of udev rules passing x11_options?
[20:52] <hyperair> hmm x11_options in udev rules eh
[20:52] <hyperair> i will have to port my hal fdi rules over
[20:54] <Sarvatt> hyperair: they aren't supported afaik, you use xorg.conf (or xorg.conf.d snippets) now
[20:54] <hyperair> Sarvatt: oh i see.
[20:54] <hyperair> Sarvatt: so how does one specify that only touchpads get 3button emulation?
[20:55] <Sarvatt> hyperair: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Input_device_configuration
[20:55] <hyperair> ohoho cool
[20:56] <hyperair> Sarvatt: is there any official documentation?
[20:56] <hyperair> Sarvatt: like a list of options, and matchwhatever things?
[20:57] <hyperair> nevermind matchwhatever things are there
[20:57] <Sarvatt> man synaptics or man xorg.conf tells ya
[20:59] <Sarvatt> http://edc.intel.com/Software/Downloads/IEGD/ thats what i was thinking of for psb
[21:07] <BUGabundo> even|ng
[21:46] <Sarvatt> there is no support for gma500 in meego currently.
[21:46] <Sarvatt> guess that answers that
[21:50] <Sarvatt> can't register with intel to grab that IEGD driver to look through either - You attempted to reach edc.intel.com, but the certificate that the server presented has been revoked by its issuer. This means that the security credentials the server presented absolutely should not be trusted. You may be communicating with an attacker. You should not proceed.
[21:52] <Sarvatt> the meego netbook repo is private too, thats why i couldn't find any juicy patches :D
[21:57] <bryceh> ahh
[21:57] <bryceh> now this is starting to sound like the psb we know and love
[22:00] <Sarvatt> they have a new platform coming out too thats just as crappy as psb but incompatible and bound to be used in netbooks, yay :)
[22:11] <bryceh> lovely


[01:25] <atrus> anybody using a hidden wifi access point with ubuntu-gnome + 3.8 ppa + staging? it seems like i have to manually teach the system about the hidden essid (with iwlist) every time i boot.
[01:55] <darkxst> atrus, no, but there is not point hiding SSID
[01:55] <darkxst> it is trivial to find networks with hidden ssids'
[01:55] <atrus> i don't run the AP, i won't be able to make that call :/
[01:56] <atrus> convince the guys running our corporate global cisco solution to do otherwise, and it won't be a problem ;)
[01:57] <darkxst> atrus, have you tried setting up connection via nm-connection-editor?
[01:57] <atrus> i'll have to try when i'm at work again.
[01:57] <atrus> or try setting up a hidden one at home maybe, for experimentation purposes :)
[01:57] <darkxst> that should be persistent
[01:58] <atrus> the thing is, i set it up vian nm-connection-editor months ago, it only stopped working after upgrading to 3.8
[02:03] <darkxst> atrus, well try that again, and if it still doesnt work file a nm bug
[02:32] <bjsnider> atrus, give me the phone number for your global corporate cisco solution and i'll talk to them about it
[02:32] <bjsnider> can't guarantee success
[02:33] <atrus> ;)
[15:47] <n0yd> Hey guys
[15:49] <n0yd> I am well aware using the gnome3 regular, and staging ppas,  and the gnome3 ppa from ricoh (one of the devs whoich vcreates an addon to to the two official ppas) may cause breakage
[15:49] <n0yd> And breakage is fun and great. This isnt a production machine, 9its a test machine to fiddle with
[15:50] <n0yd> Anyways, I recently ran the upgrade, and I think it upgraded to 3.8.2 gnome
[15:50] <n0yd> Since there isnt an easy to find help/about dialog like there was gnome2, where do I find what version I am running?
[15:51] <n0yd> Cause Id like changing the json on some of the extensiuons to see if they will work like they did with some other ones
[15:53] <n0yd> btw darkxst hey bud :)
[15:53] <n0yd> howsz it going?
[15:53] <n0yd> thanks for the help the other day
[15:56] <ricotz> n0yd, "apt-cache policy gnome-shell" will tell you what gnome-shell is installed
[15:57] <n0yd> ah its rico!
[15:57] <n0yd> good work on your ppas man!
[15:57] <n0yd> enjoying the tinkering :)
[15:57] <n0yd> hmm 3.9.2
[15:57] <n0yd> well that did it
[15:58] <n0yd> 3.9.2 is the dev number for 3.10 iirc right?
[15:58] <ricotz> yes, 3.9.x will become 3.10
[15:58] <ricotz> thanks
[15:59] <n0yd> ricotz, ?If I have the regular gnome3 ppa, the gnome3 staging, and yours, is it just yours thatr will push oit to 3.9.x?
[15:59] <ricotz> yes
[15:59] <n0yd> basically im wondering what ppas I can keep if any
[15:59] <n0yd> ok
[15:59] <n0yd> great
[15:59] <n0yd> '
[15:59] <n0yd> Cause I really want full 3.8
[15:59] <ricotz> gnome3 ppa will provide only gnome 3.8 for raring
[15:59] <n0yd> #.6 with 3.8 bits is quite lame
[15:59] <n0yd> yup
[16:00]  * n0yd grabs ppa-purge
[16:00] <ricotz> for saucy it is suppose to provide 3.9/3.10 at some point
[16:00] <n0yd> yu7a
[16:00] <n0yd> I was playing with it
[16:00] <n0yd> gnome3 has some saucy stuff
[16:01] <n0yd> and yours does also, but not staging
[16:01] <n0yd> iirc
[16:01] <n0yd> staging was the only one without any dist for it
[16:01] <ricotz> gnome3 ppas dont have a saucy pocket
[16:01] <ricotz> .. yet
[16:01] <n0yd> hmm, well it didnt error on the stdard one, just the staging
[16:01] <n0yd> iirc
[16:02] <n0yd> im n0ot saying ALL the pkgs
[16:02] <n0yd> just one or two
[16:02] <n0yd> whereas stagiung wouldnt work at all
[16:02] <ricotz> ok, i am saying there are none ;)
[16:03] <n0yd> maybe so
[16:03] <n0yd> i only ran it for like 10mi9n lol
[16:03] <ricotz> anyway, if the 3.8 settled i hope we will push some 3.9/3.10 bits
[16:03] <n0yd> cool
[16:03] <n0yd> I would use the 3.9 stuff but really, gnome3 needs extensions to be usable
[16:03] <n0yd> I wholeheartedly agree with Linus (and thats a rarity)
[16:04] <ricotz> n0yd, complain about that upstream
[16:04] <n0yd> I have ;)
[16:04] <n0yd> and will continue to
[16:04] <ricotz> although we provide the official extension which are working
[16:04] <n0yd> I hope they just add some of the extensions as options
[16:04] <n0yd> Like they already have
[16:05] <n0yd> Like removing the name from the status menu on the panel, used to be a extension
[16:05] <n0yd> now its in privacy
[16:05] <n0yd> ricotz, did you notice currently oin 3.9 using the ppa, maccounts is broken
[16:05] <n0yd> at least the accounts for empatrhy
[16:06] <n0yd> it opens, you click the service, and nothing loads. blank screen
[16:06] <ricotz> right, if those tweaks make sense will might be included directly
[16:06] <n0yd> id troubleshoot more, but im purging
[16:06] <n0yd> yup
[16:06] <ricotz> you mean the g-c-c settings
[16:07] <n0yd> And either take the stuff from tweak tool and incorporate them, or put tweak tool into gnome3 as an standard app
[16:07] <n0yd> on A STOCK INSTALL
[16:07] <n0yd> woops caps sorry
[16:07] <n0yd> g-c-c settings?
[16:07] <n0yd> Well in gnome atm, for some reason, we have two account settings under system settings
[16:07] <ricotz> the online-accounts settings in gnome-control-center
[16:08] <n0yd> one thats a two parts of a globe, and onje thats a globe witha  keyt
[16:08] <n0yd> thye two parts globe, does not work
[16:08] <n0yd> which is the one empathy uses
[16:08] <n0yd> i dont even know why there are two anbyway
[16:08] <n0yd> That should be fixed somewhere down the road as it will definitely cause user confusion
[16:08] <ricotz> empathy uses the account set up in the "global with key"
[16:08] <n0yd> uhh no it doesnt
[16:09] <ricotz> global/globe
[16:09] <n0yd> im using it now
[16:09] <n0yd> I oipen empathjy, hit add accounts, and it lauches the accounjt settings that looks like two halves of a globe that plugs into eaCHOTHER
[16:09] <n0yd> oh wait
[16:09] <n0yd> im sorry
[16:09] <n0yd> your right
[16:10] <n0yd> ii hAD THE Icons mixed
[16:10] <n0yd> it uses the one on the right
[16:10] <jbicha> n0yd: UOA being broken should have been fixed with https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/account-plugins/0.11daily13.06.06-0ubuntu1
[16:10] <n0yd> the globe with key
[16:10] <n0yd> and yes, empathy uses it, and dpoesnt work
[16:10] <n0yd> jbicha, UOA? i dont feel like clicking thjat link, thbat appl,ies to what we arew talkiung about?
[16:10] <jbicha> I'm going to request that "Ubuntu Online Accounts" be clearly marked as such in GNOME
[16:10] <n0yd> I had updatedx about 2hrs ago, and ir was broke
[16:11] <n0yd> That would be a good idea
[16:11] <ricotz> jbicha, ah missed that update account-plugins
[16:11] <n0yd> But why cant they justr all be in one
[16:11] <n0yd> I meAN, ffsa. wHY SHOULD A USER HAVE TO PUT IN THEIR gOOGLE CREDENTIALS IN TWO PLACES
[16:11] <n0yd> Its redundant and silly
[16:12] <n0yd> sorry for the caps, i just changed backed to the thinkpad okbd, and im not usewd to it
[16:13] <n0yd> A user should just have to put their google credentials in once, and have that be it.  Of course they can always go in ands change what thoise credentials allow, ie. chat, email, shotwell/picasa etc. Just like in "Accounts" in Android
[16:14] <n0yd> I dont even know where I would go to voice that issue
[16:14] <n0yd> Because the gnome guys on gimpnet would say its a distro istro or some nonsense
[16:14] <n0yd> Also, I wonder why ubuntu gnome doesnt use "Boxes" like Fedora19 does. its an AWESOME feature
[16:15] <n0yd> ricotz, I see you work on plank
[16:15] <n0yd> Which drivesz docky, and eOS' "Pantheon" or whatever its called
[16:16] <ricotz> jbicha, any objections to copy automake1.13 to gnome3 ppa?
[16:16] <n0yd> Do you know of a way to build their dock, or get a deb of it?
[16:16] <n0yd> he quit
[16:16] <n0yd> I use docky a lot, but would mlike to test pantheon and see if its a ny different, or as I exsspect just a renamed docky
[16:16] <n0yd> Like 75 percent of eOS is
[16:17] <ricotz> n0yd, plank isnt feature equal with docky2 and won't be
[16:17] <ricotz> so you cant really compare it
[16:17] <n0yd> newver heard of docky2?
[16:17] <n0yd> Is that the current docky
[16:18] <n0yd> thjats used atm
[16:18] <n0yd> lkike if I apt-get docky
[16:18] <ricotz> n0yd, you can try the matching elementary ppa to test pantheon
[16:18] <n0yd> or is it in development stafe
[16:18] <ricotz> yes i mean the current docky 2.x
[16:18] <ricotz> which uses mono
[16:18] <n0yd> oh i saw it used mono
[16:19] <n0yd> so its not planky no longer?
[16:19] <n0yd> mono is quite lame imho
[16:19] <n0yd> yuse a language native to linux imho
[16:19] <n0yd> but inmj old school in that way
[16:19] <n0yd> paint.net is nice though, but doesnt work good in mono
[16:20] <n0yd> do you know where to find the pantheon ppa?
[16:20] <n0yd> Cause they call everything pantheon
[16:20] <ricotz> plank is the new thing which is suppose to be the base for docky3
[16:21] <ricotz> and it is written in vala
[16:21] <n0yd> And i just want the dock
[16:21] <n0yd> https://launchpad.net/~elementary-os/+archive/daily
[16:21] <n0yd> oh cool
[16:21] <n0yd> I like vala
[16:21] <ricotz> if you just want the dock ppa:ricotz/docky
[16:21] <n0yd> ya but thats JUST [p-lank
[16:21] <n0yd> ill try it
[16:22] <ricotz> otherwise ppa:elementary-os/testing
[16:22] <n0yd> does it allow me to change monitor eASILY?
[16:22] <n0yd> (plank)
[16:22] <ricotz> ah no, elementary-os/daily for raring
[16:22] <n0yd> like docky, just open settings, highly the dock you want, and drag
[16:22] <n0yd> cause im multyi monitor, laptop and monitor
[16:23] <n0yd> with monitor external as main
[16:23] <ricotz> no, you have to edit a settings file
[16:23] <n0yd> oh ok
[16:23] <n0yd> no biggie as long as thesettings file is sane
[16:23] <n0yd> like conkyrc or similar
[16:24] <n0yd> ricotz, hmm purging your ppa went bad
[16:24] <n0yd> lots of errors, I will pastebin if you dont mind trying to help
[16:25] <n0yd> ricotz, http://pastebin.com/9NX6v1d4
[16:25] <n0yd> thats where it sytarted to get messy lemme know if you need more
[16:25] <n0yd> im sure i can fix it
[16:26] <n0yd> hmm apt-get -f install saw no problems
[16:28] <n0yd> just had to upgrae after
[16:28] <n0yd> I think that should fix it all
[16:28] <n0yd> cause most if not all the bitching are packages contained in the upgrade
[16:29] <n0yd> hmm wonder why my docky randomly crashes/closes sometimes
[16:29] <n0yd> without error
[16:31] <n0yd> ricotz, any chance you use conky?
[16:34] <ricotz> n0yd, conky that "widget thingy"? no idea
[16:34] <ricotz> so no ;)
[16:36] <n0yd> hyeh its ok
[16:36] <n0yd> its not really a widget
[16:36] <n0yd> as you cant click it
[16:36] <n0yd> ricotz, here is a really busy example http://laabiyad.deviantart.com/art/Conky-Laabiyad-350943668
[16:37] <n0yd> ricotz, more simple example http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/021/d/4/nconky_by_necromod-d5s594a.png
[16:37] <n0yd> Currently mine is just a readable time and date
[16:48] <ricotz> i see
[17:15] <n0yd> hey ricotz im as bit perplexed
[17:16] <n0yd> I did a reboot, and gnome-shell still sayts 3.9.2 after the purge
[17:16] <n0yd> the stuff i see in gnome3 ppa is all 3.8.2 and siuch
[17:17] <n0yd> since ppa-piurge didnt downgrade like it shouldve, how should I do it?
[17:17] <n0yd> if yoyu dont minds helping
[17:17] <n0yd> if you are, then just say so :)
[17:23] <n0yd> looks like it might fix it with ppurge AND aptitude
[17:23] <n0yd> We'll see what breakagew occurs now :P
[21:47] <FrozenFire> Anyone ever successfully get GEdit snippet regular expression placeholders working?
[21:47] <FrozenFire> I've found that they seem just to break the edit, creating an undeletable "tabstop" area.
[22:02] <FrozenFire> Resorted to Python
[22:02] <FrozenFire> Blegh
[22:43] <darkxst> jbicha, 3.8.3 is quite disruptive for a point release ;(
[22:43] <jbicha> darkxst: which package?
[22:44] <darkxst> jbicha, they swapped out the input source switcher, so affects g-s-d/g-c-c/mutter and shell
[22:48] <jbicha> in general, gnome is a lousy upstream, they only do a couple quick bugfix releases and they don't really follow their own freeze policies
[22:49] <jbicha> I guess it works ok for Fedora since Fedora releases after the last major bugfix release
[22:49] <jbicha> technically we aren't using that input switcher because it's part of the ibus integration, right?
[22:54] <darkxst> I think its still used with xkb, just somewhat limited in that case
[23:33] <jbicha> I wasn't expecting gnome releases on a Friday evening
[23:35] <jbicha> I guess the input switcher stuff breaks tweak tool?
[23:42] <darkxst> jbicha, yes I suspect it would
[23:58] <darkxst> jbicha, what package provides the input switcher applet in unity?


[14:20] <Ubik> I thought about using KVM for some things for on prem phone systems.
[14:21] <Ubik> That way I can make hardware agnostic images for the channel partner. They can just install KVM on a box and then load my image.
[14:21] <Ubik> Probably be the only VM on the box.
[14:35] <ZachGibbens> Maybe a maint. image too?


[01:32] <daftykins> that nicomachus is so sensitive.
[01:35] <SeriouslyLaugh> everyone's fighting their own battle :\
[01:36] <daftykins> did you see that one though? just flips out and rage parts again over nothing
[01:36] <SeriouslyLaugh> yeah
[01:37] <daftykins> this is how i see it: "either give me the exact answer on a silver platter or i'm going to get upset"
[01:38] <SeriouslyLaugh> yeah, people tend to expect a path to the solution instead of spending the time to investigate options
[01:38] <daftykins> they were right there on the links...
[01:39] <SeriouslyLaugh> the worst is when you offer help on something and it doesn't work, then they come back to you like it's your job to offer another option
[01:39] <daftykins> the first involved adding a single config line, so could have been tested in 5 seconds
[01:39] <SeriouslyLaugh> that really irks me
[01:39] <daftykins> haha yeah looking up with puppy eyes
[01:39] <SeriouslyLaugh> more like arms crossed
[01:39] <daftykins> well that's common given the usual beginner atmosphere in there
[01:39] <SeriouslyLaugh> hm yeah it seems to be a theme
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:38] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-5-features-new-default-font-wayland-session-legacy-tray-icons-support-video-497275.shtml
[10:42] <lotuspsychje> morning
[10:43] <lotuspsychje> looks like the #gamingonlinux channel is pretty buys
[10:43] <lotuspsychje> busy
[10:54] <lotuspsychje> !find 358.16
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> hey cfhowlett
[12:09] <cfhowlett> hidiho lotuspsychje
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: did you hear something on the ops yet?
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> hey BluesKaj
[12:10] <OerHeks> :-)
[12:10] <lotuspsychje> hi OerHeks
[12:10] <cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, no word.  I suspect I'm not worthy as I have been known to be concise to the point of rudeness - or so I'm told.
[12:10] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[12:10] <OerHeks> hi lotus BluesKaj cfhowlett
[12:10] <cfhowlett> greetings OerHeks
[12:11] <OerHeks> you, rude, cfhowlett ?
[12:11] <cfhowlett> shocking, isn't it?
[12:11] <OerHeks> why, did you say goodbye twice?
[12:11] <lotuspsychje> cfhowlett: they dint mention that? thats your idea of it?
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Hi lotuspsychje, OerHeks, cfhowlett
[12:11] <cfhowlett> lotuspsychje, I have heard exactly NOTHING, but one of the ops informed me thus during a PM
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> ic
[12:12] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj: news for you? http://news.softpedia.com/news/kde-plasma-5-5-features-new-default-font-wayland-session-legacy-tray-icons-support-video-497275.shtml
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> the #gamingonlinux channel is pretty cool too, alot of interesting grafix discussions
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> handy for support
[12:14] <lotuspsychje> another fav added :p
[12:18] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys coffee + cake
[12:21] <BluesKaj> lotuspsychje, well , I remain cautiously optimistic that 5.5 will increase my enthusiasm for the plasma desktop
[13:13] <daftykins> afternoon all o/
[13:27] <daftykins> EriC^^: wb o/
[13:27] <EriC^^> ty daftykins
[13:28] <daftykins> ripping music CDs of opera is the hardest thing i think i've ripped... the naming is impossible :D
[13:28] <EriC^^> :D
[13:29] <EriC^^> what are the names like?
[13:32] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gmb5of13wi6avz/IMG_20151208_132952.jpg?dl=0
[13:32] <daftykins> there's an example of a set of choices before you even get to all the italian track names D:
[13:33] <daftykins> it's like... ok so it's Verdi... but then it's actually an orchestra performing it headed by this guy... then there are 3 main names above performing presumably... argh!
[13:37] <daftykins> i'm used to Artist, Album Name, Year, track titles... done ;)
[13:38] <EriC^^> yikes
[13:38] <EriC^^> yeah
[13:39] <daftykins> this classical stuff is really quiet on the CDs too, i'm having to crank my speakers to hear it
[13:40] <EriC^^> :D
[13:40] <daftykins> ah another glorious Patch Tuesday ^_^
[13:41] <daftykins> lets see if Microsoft can avoid releasing one that ruins my clients systems today... ;)
[13:41] <EriC^^> did they release the big patch yet?
[13:41] <daftykins> which one is that?
[13:42] <EriC^^> you said they had a major patch coming out a couple weeks ago
[13:42] <daftykins> oh possibly the autumn build of Windows 10, yeah build 10586 is out
[13:42] <EriC^^> i think you said it was what windows was supposed to be when it released
[13:42] <daftykins> yeah that's the one :)
[13:43] <EriC^^> cool
[13:43] <daftykins> it's a bit of a mess right now, anyone that uses disk encryption (Windows' BitLocker) can't clean install from the new media, as it'll not let them use that function... so if you use it you have to install from 10240 build media, then upgrade
[13:43] <daftykins> i don't know anyone that does, though...
[13:43] <EriC^^> oh
[13:44] <EriC^^> i saw a thread yesterday about win10 editing some bios stuff causing dell pc's to show blank screens on starting up
[13:44] <daftykins> i've been playing with this Microsoft Surface Pro 4, but i really can't take it seriously as any kind of productive device - it's just a glorified tablet toy really :(
[13:44] <EriC^^> ah
[13:45] <daftykins> ah i've not heard about that one
[13:45] <BluesKaj> odd I just ran windows 10 update , nothing except the windows defender updated which is std
[13:45] <EriC^^> it must have updated earlier by itself i guess
[13:46] <EriC^^> check the build code maybe
[13:46] <daftykins> yeah patch tuesday only occurs at 9am pacific standard time, which is 6pm for me here in GMT/UTC 0
[13:46] <daftykins> have to wait for the folks in Seattle to wake up you see ;)
[13:46] <EriC^^> oh
[13:46] <daftykins> BluesKaj: yeah if you run 'cmd' it'll show 10586 if you're already on the autumn build update aka version '1511'
[13:47] <BluesKaj> daftykins, I am on 15/11
[13:48] <daftykins> ah right
[13:48] <daftykins> yep only... 4hrs ish to go then ;)
[13:48] <BluesKaj> ok then it's too early for everyone then
[13:48] <EriC^^> i found a cool pastebin recently
[13:48] <BluesKaj> it'll be noon here
[13:49] <EriC^^> echo bla | nc cwillu.com 10101
[13:49] <daftykins> EriC^^: my brain can't handle another! XD
[13:49] <EriC^^> the cool part is that it returns cwillu.com/<ip>/1
[13:50] <daftykins> ooh, our users could cry over that for privacy reasons though
[13:50] <EriC^^> and you can click to view all pastes, so whenever a user pastes, he doesn't have to give the new paste link
[13:50] <EriC^^> and all the pastes are on the same page and stuff
[13:51] <EriC^^> yeah, i thought it would be pretty cool if it could auto update somehow whenever he typed a command
[13:52] <EriC^^> so i came up with this, script -f /tmp/bla , and then in another terminal tail -f /tmp/bla | nc cwillu.com 10101
[13:52] <daftykins> :D
[13:52] <EriC^^> you get a real time view of his terminal, even if he doesn't press enter on a command
[13:52] <EriC^^> lol
[13:52] <daftykins> typos in realtime :O
[13:52] <EriC^^> haha yeah
[13:53] <daftykins> that guy from California i helped set up a web server VM the other day, he'd come back to me "nope that didn't work"
 err, did you typo...
[13:53] <daftykins> "yes"
[13:53] <EriC^^> yeah
[13:53] <EriC^^> yesterday somebody typed sudo parted -|
[13:53] <daftykins> oof :D
[13:53] <EriC^^> lol
[13:55] <daftykins> waaaaah the ripping software on my remote PC sends a horrible beep when complete
[13:55] <daftykins> that was a surprise :)
[13:56] <EriC^^> hehe
[13:58] <daftykins> there's something powerful about some of this classical stuff being so old and yet still so moving today, long after the composers have passed
[13:58] <daftykins> what a legacy :O
[13:59] <EriC^^> yeah
[13:59] <EriC^^> they're very powerful and stuff
[14:00] <EriC^^> beethoven was practically deaf when he made the 9th symphony :o
[14:01] <daftykins> mmm i should get more into classical, i've never really explored it
[14:01] <daftykins> i was just playing this from one of these CDs (they're not mine, just doing it for a client) because it sounds so good
[14:01] <daftykins> Pietro Mascagni - Cavalleria Rusticana- Intermezzo
[14:02] <cfhowlett> daftykins, willia tell & 1812 overtures.
[14:02] <cfhowlett> willia
[14:02] <cfhowlett> william
[14:02]  * EriC^^ listening on youtube
[14:03] <daftykins> :D
[14:03] <EriC^^> pretty soothing
[14:03] <daftykins> Mascagni one? takes until about 1.5 mins to get to the bit i recognised
[14:03] <EriC^^> yeah
[14:04] <EriC^^> man imagine the times these guys lived in
[14:06] <daftykins> i don't think i can, too much of my life revolves around tech
[14:06] <EriC^^> i was just picturing the titanic
[14:06] <daftykins> oh yeah that was around 1908ish wasn't it?
[14:07] <EriC^^> haha yeah
[14:08] <BluesKaj> I inheritedmost of  my parent's classical record collection and some of the vinyl is still good shape ... I put Tsaikovsky on the the turnatable now and then to bring back memories of my childhood :-)
[14:09] <daftykins> oh wow i didn't even notice autoplay skipped on... i really can't stand youtube's autoplay! i clear my browser cache regularly and so it never stays off :(
[14:09] <daftykins> BluesKaj: that's neat :D
[14:10] <BluesKaj> the 1812 overture is tour de force recording even today
[14:10] <BluesKaj> I'm still partial to vinyl when it come sto music
[14:11] <BluesKaj> classical music actually
[14:11] <daftykins> i've never heard any as it goes
[14:15] <BluesKaj> daftykins, go to a music store that sells vinyl and will demo an analog recording, I'm sure you'll understand why vinyl music lovers believe that analog brings the listener closer to the music and the spirit it was recorded in.
[14:15] <daftykins> mmm unfortunately i believe that's too subjective to the system used there, vs. my own
[14:15] <daftykins> what if theirs is worse or better, for example
[14:16] <daftykins> but no such place exists on my island, even
[14:16] <BluesKaj> of course it's subjective
[14:17] <BluesKaj> music isn't meant to objective, it's objective only to the critics
[14:17] <BluesKaj> to be
[14:17] <EriC^^> BluesKaj: did you mean the music was sound more distorted on the analog one?
[14:18] <EriC^^> *would
[14:18] <BluesKaj> anyway that's my take on it
[14:18] <daftykins> perhaps it was a bad choice of word, my point is that my frame of reference is my own setup
[14:20] <BluesKaj> EriC^^, perhaps a lttle more harmoniuc distortion , but it's usually quite low and not as objectionable to the ear as intermodulation distortion etc
[14:20] <EriC^^> yeah that's what i meant, that it'll sound like when it was recorded
[14:20] <EriC^^> so you get what the artist was hearing when he was making it
[14:21] <EriC^^> and the atmosphere of the song
[14:22] <BluesKaj> digital adds that upper frequency edgy sound that most vinyl lovers  don't like
[14:22] <daftykins> i need to source a new sub as the one on my TV setup is going wrong :/
[14:22] <daftykins> in fact i'm going to call someone i know about it
[14:22] <BluesKaj> mostly to do with sample rate artifacts
[14:23] <BluesKaj> EriC^^, you got it
[14:25] <BluesKaj> my old subwoofer is showing it's age ..using my mains full range instead ...more articulate bass
[14:30] <BluesKaj> bbl
[14:36] <daftykins> :D
[14:46] <EriC^^> i'm getting hungry :O
[14:46] <daftykins> me too, only had a roll and a cup of tea so far, time to hunt for more :)
[14:46] <daftykins> ugh this next double CD has no info from online available ;_;
[14:46] <EriC^^> :)
[14:46] <EriC^^> hehe
[15:18] <daftykins> hmm termbin isn't working today
[15:23] <EriC^^> hmm
[15:23] <EriC^^> nc cwillu.com 10101 :D
[15:26] <daftykins> how do people hose their systems so badly D:
[15:39] <daftykins> < CoreM_> ANY STUPID HERE ?
[15:40] <daftykins> that's a classic
[15:40] <EriC^^> lol yeah
[15:59] <daftykins> xpistos is really trying my patience :(
[16:00] <EriC^^> people have some odd requests sometimes
[16:00] <OerHeks>  more demand style
[16:03] <EriC^^> i'm hungry again
[16:03] <EriC^^> :O
[16:05] <daftykins> that guy isn't even understanding these errors at all.
[16:07] <OerHeks> daftykins, i don't believe this guy, in this paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/13826351/   linux-headers-generic-pae              <IP_ADDRESS>.108                            Generic Linux kernel headers is installed
[16:08] <OerHeks> so what is really going on?
[16:08] <daftykins> it's a right mess XD
[16:09] <daftykins> i shouldn't have said to remove the newer headers packages when reclaiming inodes, in the original problem
[17:02] <daftykins> it's motaka! everyone hide!
[18:08] <EriC^^> there should be some how to setup a web development server online
[18:08] <daftykins> yeah a good VPS
[19:18] <daftykins> halloween has passed, you cannot be ubuntu touch!
[19:18] <EriC^^> haha
[19:42] <lotuspsychje> good evening guys
[19:42] <daftykins> heya!
[19:42] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins
[19:45] <EriC^^> hey lotuspsychje
[19:46] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-phones-spotted-in-a-store-in-germany-at-just-1-with-contract-497189.shtml
[19:46] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^ :p
[19:46] <daftykins> :O
[19:46] <daftykins> i just heard mozilla are killing firefoxOS
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: indeed: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mozilla-Stops-Firefox-OS
[20:47] <lotuspsychje> all those seird os, i dont like them anyway
[20:47] <lotuspsychje> chromeos firefoxos,..
[20:53] <daftykins> yeah, i think there are enough out there already on mobile
[20:53] <lotuspsychje> #gamingonlinux is really usefull, alot of grafix discussions :p
[21:10] <EriC^^> i always ask which laptop is this when the proverbial hits the fan
[21:10] <EriC^^> but i've not written any of them down, haha
[21:10] <lotuspsychje> lol
[21:10] <EriC^^> i need to make a "do not buy" list of laptops
[21:10] <EriC^^> it seems the home-built pc's have these issues
[21:11] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: ive installed trusty on more then 70 boxes, they all working nicely
[21:11] <EriC^^> uefi?
[21:11] <lotuspsychje> yeah many
[21:11] <daftykins> yeah a lot of the custom built stuff have bad EFI implementations i think
[21:11] <lotuspsychje> but all singleboot
[21:11] <EriC^^> yeah i think so too daftykins
[21:11] <lotuspsychje> i never do dualboots
[21:12] <lotuspsychje> i warn my users in advance
[21:12] <daftykins> when Rene went to remove Windows and put ubuntu on, i don't think the install did enough to nuke all traces of Windows - i like to wipe it with dd first and reboot again
[21:12] <daftykins> might be all in my mind, but i do it even when i'm wiping a factory 8.1 install and putting 10 on :)
[21:14] <daftykins> i see holding down shift when clicking start -> power icon -> shutdown ; works reliably for one-time hybrid shutdown disabling, so it shuts down properly ^_^ (Windows 10)
[21:16] <EriC^^> i think that'd be useful for mbr, sometimes you can have stuff that won't allow grub to install too
[21:17] <daftykins> "nuke it from orbit - it's the only way to be sure" - Lt. Ripley, "Aliens"
[21:17] <daftykins> :D
[21:17] <EriC^^> like anti-mbr tampering software
[21:17] <EriC^^> haha
[21:17] <lotuspsychje> :p
[21:18] <daftykins> a while back a friend asked for me to buy a cheap laptop for his grandmother, then reinstall the stock windows 8 with windows 7...
[21:18] <daftykins> no matter what i did, i couldn't get this thing booting a USB flash drive with CSM enabled, just wouldn't go... (there was a reason a legacy install of 7 was preferable over an EFI one)
[21:18] <daftykins> eventually i got bored and threw a DVD of 7 in... booted up straight away =|
[21:19] <EriC^^> hah! :D
[21:20] <EriC^^> i don't know what the deal is with Rene 's uefi though, i think the bios is just mean
[21:20] <daftykins> :D
[21:20] <daftykins> i didn't catch which make of laptop it is?
[21:20] <EriC^^> it's supposed to look at the uefi list, and boot whatever file is there first in the order, but it wont
[21:21] <EriC^^> acer predator
[21:22] <daftykins> oh dear, the acers are the #1 suspects for showing more options when a supervisor password is entered from what i remember
[21:22] <daftykins> that sounds like a silly gaming model XD
[21:24] <EriC^^> daftykins: do you think Rene should enter a supervisor password?
[21:25] <EriC^^> secureboot is disabled
[21:25] <daftykins> i've not been followingly closely to be honest
[21:25] <daftykins> since it's not long since installed i'd probably do a Lt. Ripley as above
[21:25] <daftykins> as much as it's giving up
[21:35] <lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-cuda
[21:35] <lotuspsychje> !find cuda
[21:43] <lotuspsychje> !info nvidia-cuda-toolkit trusty
[22:35] <daftykins> user screenshots an empty folder
[22:35] <daftykins> *facepalm*
[22:35] <lotuspsychje> lol
[22:35] <lotuspsychje> whats inside?? :p
[22:35] <lotuspsychje> anything usefull?
[22:35] <daftykins> omg it's the answer to why the xubuntu session isn't working! :D
[22:36] <daftykins> if only i could read it :S
[22:36] <daftykins> lotus, do you speak blank?
[22:36] <lotuspsychje> lolll
[22:36] <lotuspsychje> look at the error i deleted!
[23:02] <daftykins> g'night folks \o
[23:04] <EriC^^> nighty night
[23:42] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: IRT Rene___ would it not behoove us to purge the old drive before 'autoinstall' ?
[23:49] <EriC^^> i think Rene has the default one
[23:49] <EriC^^> wont hurt though
[23:50] <EriC^^> installing the headers is important though, sometimes nvidia doesn't work right without them installed
[23:54] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Very true ! Got to have the headers to build the driver .


[19:53] <fretknot> Hello, is this a good place to find out more about ubuntu?
[20:04] <fretknot> msg ALIS list *ubuntu*


[01:22] <dmj726> In the long description of the control file is it possible to have a question mark?
[02:56] <dmj726> For submitting an app, what needs to be in the source package?
[02:58] <JackyAlcine_> Typical Debian package requirements, no?
[03:00] <dmj726> I've not actually packaged something new for submission before, so I'm trying to make sure I'm getting it right
[03:02] <ajmitch> dmj726: where are you submitting to?
[03:09] <dmj726> ubuntu software centre
[03:10] <dmj726> through My Apps
[03:10] <ajmitch> ok, a free app?
[03:11] <dmj726> No, my plan was for a paid app
[03:11] <dmj726> Though the contents themselves will be licensed freely
[03:12] <ajmitch> right, then the good people who handle reviewing those should be able to help when you submit it
[03:14] <dmj726> okay, I've heard it takes them a lot longer if they have to reverse engineer whatever you give them
[03:15] <ajmitch> if you submit a binary package, I imagine it would
[03:15] <dmj726> right now I've got a tarball with /debian and the source code in it, a .dsc, and a .changes file all in a tarball
[03:17] <ajmitch> ok, and debian/control, debian/rules are filled out sufficiently for building the package? e.g. you have all build-dependencies listed that you know of, and debian/rules can build the app
[03:17] <ajmitch> I'm assuming it's software :)
[03:17] <dmj726> yeah, the only thing it requires is firefox
[03:18] <dmj726> well, it requires firefox if you don't want to browse to /opt/thepackage for the stuff manually
[03:18] <ajmitch> right, that should be fairly easy then
[03:18] <dmj726> I built the package locally and it worked
[03:19] <ajmitch> great
[03:20] <ajmitch> you were asking about the long description earlier, afaik it can have punctuation like '?' in it
[03:42] <dmj726> yeah it was displaying funny if I had a ? at the end of a line
[06:23] <IanLiu> I'm calling g_debug in my app, but it won't show. This happens on Ubuntu 12.04. Any hints on why this happens?


[01:50] <JanC> czajkowski: more like half (or maybe ⅔) of a day if it's on Saturday...  ☺
[01:52] <JanC> Saturday morning there are still classes at the university, so usually you can't start before noon
[01:53] <JanC> well, maybe a bit before noon, at 11am
[04:48] <JoseeAntonioR> hey guys, I'll be making an Ubuntu deploy in a university soon, should I deploy 12.04 (as it's an LTS) or 12.10?
[04:49] <chilicuil> JoseeAntonioR: if you wanna do it with maas I'd recommend u, 12.04, it doesn't work in ubuntu 12.10
[04:50] <JoseeAntonioR> nope, they're just standalone desktops
[04:50] <JoseeAntonioR> chilicuil: ^
[04:50] <chilicuil> JoseeAntonioR: well, then I hope they have good graphic cards, with VM, ubuntu 12.10 with unity 3d doesn't work as fast as ubuntu 12.04
[04:51] <JoseeAntonioR> VM?
[04:51] <JoseeAntonioR> I'll be working with *entire* desktops
[04:51] <JoseeAntonioR> no windows on it
[04:52] <IdleOne> probably better to go with 12.04
[04:55] <JoseeAntonioR> maybe test some of them with 12.10 and the rest with 12.04?
[05:01] <chilicuil> yep, that would be cool JoseeAntonioR , however when installing just leave one, the sysadmins will thank you
[05:07] <JoseeAntonioR> what do you mean, one with 12.10?
[05:08] <chilicuil> no, that at the final deployment only use either 12.04 or 12.10
[07:47] <dholbach> good morning
[08:00] <philballew> hello ubuntu world
[09:22] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:22] <philballew> hello czajkowski
[09:22] <czajkowski> pleia2: hows things?
[09:25] <czajkowski> bah
[09:27] <philballew> czajkowski, its 1:27 am here. "Normal" people might be sleeping.
[09:31] <czajkowski> philballew: true
[12:07] <jussi> I need a french speaker for  a moment, any french speakers with a minute to help me?
[12:08] <czajkowski> jussi: plonk in #ubuntu-fr
[12:08] <daker> jussi: me me me
[12:08] <jussi> oh hai czajkowski and daker
[12:08] <jussi> daker: Ill pm, thanks :)
[14:37] <pleia2> http://www.boutiqueacademia.com/ubuntu-necklace/ necklaces now :D
[14:37] <czajkowski> pleia2: just the person, :)
[14:37] <pleia2> hey czajkowski :) things are good
[14:39] <cjohnston> mornin
[15:04] <daker> dholbach: bookmark this :D http://www.ted.com/talks/terry_moore_why_is_x_the_unknown.html
[15:04] <dholbach> daker, I've seen it already :)
[15:04] <daker> hhh ok :)
[15:05] <dholbach> :-)
[15:08] <daker> * feedback pls http://i.imgur.com/9VTVv.png http://i.imgur.com/6lLYg.png
[15:11] <czajkowski> nice daker
[15:38] <popey> LIKE THAT!
[15:39] <daker> :)
[15:39] <czajkowski> daker: nice job really well done
[15:39] <czajkowski> daker: maybe post to the loco contacts list and see if you can get people to be excited and want to help
[15:40] <daker> will do
[15:40] <daker> czajkowski: thank you :)
[16:09] <snap-l> daker: One quick thing: We use our IRC channel an awful lot, so it would be handy to still have the link on the team page
[16:09] <snap-l> We rarely use the forums, though.
[16:09] <daker> Yes snap-l i will do
[16:10] <snap-l> daker: Awesome. Thanks
[16:10] <daker> it's a work-in-progress :)
[16:10] <snap-l> And an handsome one at that. :)
[16:10] <daker> thanks
[17:04] <dholbach> alright my friends - got to go - see you all tomorrow
[17:54] <daker> one of the things i hate marking a bug as "incomplete" without saying anything bug #1032799
[17:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1032799 in WebApps: unity-chromium-extensions "Launcher shows 3 instances of twitter" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1032799
[17:55] <czajkowski> daker: just ask him incomplete how and what other information is needed
[17:55] <czajkowski> he's very nice and helpul
[17:56] <czajkowski> he may just have forgotten when working on a lot f bugs
[17:57] <daker> ok
[18:42] <philipballew> Hello Ubuntu world
[19:30] <popey> hello philipballew
[19:45] <philipballew> Hello as well popey
[20:32] <daker> mhall119: cjohnston snap-l czajkowski what do you think again http://i.imgur.com/VoKXp.png ?
[20:38] <snap-l> daker: Looks nice
[20:38] <snap-l> Would like to have the hashtag for each of the locos, if possible (#ubuntumi in our case)
[20:38] <snap-l> If it's just a generic #ubuntu hash tag, that gets way too noisy
[20:39] <daker> it's a field, the team admins can change that
[20:39] <snap-l> OK
[20:43] <snap-l> I'm a little upset over the removal of statusnet instances as well, but that's a topic for another time. :)
[20:44] <daker> we have removed the global one since it was displaying old content but if you have a request we can put that on the team page
[20:45] <snap-l> I'd like the Ubuntu MI group's identi.ca group displayed, if possible.
[20:45] <snap-l> http://identi.ca/group/ubuntumi
[20:46] <daker> i see
[20:49] <snap-l> Think is, we curate that, so any spam that comes along we can dismiss pretty rapidly
[20:49] <snap-l> but the tag itself is apparently outside our best efforts to quash
[20:49] <daker> i'll look into it
[20:49] <snap-l> daker: Awesome. Thanks!
[20:50]  * snap-l is glad you picked on our team for the mockup. ;)
[20:50] <daker> i didn't know :)
[20:50] <snap-l> Yeah, I have a vested interest. ;)
[22:13] <mhall119> daker: I like the mono-chrome icons, those look nice.  Where did you get them?
[22:14] <czajkowski> daker: nice work
[22:14] <daker> mhall119: http://www.entypo.com/
[22:14] <czajkowski> snap-l: the problem with identi.ca stuff on the rest of the LTP is its full of spam and outdated content on all pages
[22:14] <czajkowski> as many people no longer use it
[22:15] <czajkowski> and it then makes going to a page showing old content make a user think nothing is going on
[22:15] <mhall119> daker: make sure you mention that in the EXTERNALS file
[22:15] <daker> sure i'll do it
[22:15] <mhall119> thanks
[22:15] <mhall119> gotta give credit where credit is due
[22:16] <mhall119> the page looks awesome, btw
[22:16] <daker> thanks
[22:16] <mhall119> daker: http://thenounproject.com/ has a bunch of mono-chrome icons too
[22:17] <daker> nice
[22:17] <mhall119> hmmm, I thought they were free to use, but now it looks like you have to pay
[22:19] <mhall119> well, http://thenounproject.com/using-symbols/ says they are either CC or public domain...


[08:15] <vish> yay! troy_s is here ;)
[08:15] <vish>  <vish> troy_s: nah.. i was thinking of reviving the artwork team/ML.. seems we are doing nothing .. especially last cycle nothing was done ..  and there was talk about alpha wallpapers earlier but nothing seems to have been put into action.. i'm planning on writing a mail to the list to know if people are interested in doing anything...
[08:15] <vish> [13:26] <vish> oops troy isnt here :(
[17:32] <fhein> hey
[17:32] <fhein> first of all, I must say that Ubuntu 10.04 looks awesome.. really like the theme
[17:32] <thorwil> ho
[17:33] <fhein> but I just installed 10.10 beta, and am I the only one who thinks the purple-orange mix looks a little off?
[17:34] <thorwil> fhein: you are most likely not the only one. but you will hardly find those responsible here outside of london office hours ;)
[17:34] <fhein> hehe, just checking
[17:35] <fhein> is there any design/artwork feedback site, or is irc the best forum for discussing ideas etc?
[17:37] <thorwil> fhein: replies to posts on http://design.canonical.com/ might have among the better chances of receiving attention
[17:38] <fhein> cool, I'll check it out
[17:38] <thorwil> fhein: note that i has been declared that the 10.10 wallpaper will be changed, already
[17:38] <thorwil> fhein: this explains the idea behind it: http://design.canonical.com/2010/09/ubuntu-default-wallpaper/
[17:42] <fhein> pretty interesting idea with a slowly changing wallpaper too
[19:14] <troy_s> vish: Apparently I was. Strange.
[19:15] <troy_s> The reality is that cycling a wallpaper won't change the fact that it is a poorly executed and underwhelming experience.
[19:16] <troy_s> Widget's comment, as derogatory as it is, stands as the best summation.
[19:22] <troy_s> vish: I don't really know what to suggest with the list. Personally, there are a number of issues facing it. Who should be on the list? Why? Inclusion is great, but not when it simply amounts to a batch of poorly informed opinions on various things.
[19:23] <troy_s> vish: Second would be the big question of why? Why does the list exist? There isn't much reason to as it currently stands. It even creates some degree of confusion (as can be seen here) where people _assume_ that xxx decision is made there.
[19:24] <troy_s> vish: It likely need to have a _purpose_, and that purpose should be loudly stated somewhere. I believe that was tried once, to be a place for community contributions, but that has clearly not been a growing audience.
[19:28] <vish> re
[19:28] <vish> troy_s: heya.. :)
[19:29] <vish> troy_s: exactly! many dont know what can be done in Ubuntu.. we first need to draw lines where we can change what community can work on..
[19:30] <vish> troy_s: its not just about the alpha wallpapers, but we can do so much more.. , backgrounds for games etc..
[19:30] <troy_s> vish: The information out there is pretty sad.
[19:30] <vish> yupp.
[19:30] <troy_s> vish: The only issue is that there is the great huge dilemma - first is information and second is process.
[19:30] <troy_s> vish: There isn't much of a _need_ currently.
[19:31] <vish> troy_s: isnt a need for which?
[19:31] <troy_s> vish: And even where there might be a need, there is no process or reason to harness such a team (even if it demonstrated that it was capable of producing anything of merit, which to date, is clearly on the lacking side.)
[19:31] <troy_s> vish: That sort of a resource.
[19:31] <vish> there is!
[19:31] <troy_s> vish: It would likely require actively finding projects that _desire_ or _need_ that sort of input.
[19:32] <vish> troy_s: but people dont know.. there is spread Ubuntu , where people can do tshirt designs , designs for presentations , for mugs.
[19:32] <vish> for banners..
[19:33] <vish> people are submitting their art on deviant art etc.. but is any of it being used?
[19:33] <vish> why cant we use it?
[19:33] <vish> we need to be organized, that is what we are missing , IMHO ;)
[19:33] <troy_s> vish: Personally, it would be nice to see a listing of talent somewhere.
[19:34] <troy_s> vish: That is the age old chant. Organize.
[19:34] <troy_s> vish: It never really amounts to anything other than organization.
[19:34] <vish> troy_s: haha , the talented is not an easy resource ;)
[19:34] <troy_s> vish: Supplant it with information.
[19:35] <troy_s> vish: _If_ there are people in the community, maybe offering up a single resource for outsiders is useful?
[19:35] <vish> thats what i want to find out.. , are there people interested..
[19:35] <troy_s> vish: And most importantly, don't rely on an empty label. "artist" "designer" "illustrator" are scary terms. If you replace them with a word like "brilliant", you can see why I worry when people self label themselves.
[19:36] <troy_s> vish: Think of a Behance for Ubuntu maybe?
[19:37] <vish> hehe.. ;)  in the words of some famous canadian..  But I agree with that sentiment.
[19:37] <troy_s> vish: Create the work and let others do the labelling.
[19:37] <vish> yup!
[19:37] <troy_s> vish: I _do_ think that it is possible to become a valuable core of folks, but right now... it's pretty hard to see value there.
[19:38] <troy_s> vish: And there is no relationship there. Not much trust. Etc.
[19:38] <vish> troy_s: i believe thats where you can help, be part of a core.. :)
[19:38] <troy_s> vish: So I suppose I'd probably try to focus on building that.
[19:38] <troy_s> vish: My time has long since waned on that front my friend.
[19:39] <vish> ;)
[19:39] <troy_s> vish: There is a very real chasm between coding and art, design, blah blah.
[19:39] <troy_s> vish: And I'm not sure how to bridge it. It is a cultural issue.
[19:40] <troy_s> vish: What are your thoughts?
[19:41] <vish> troy_s: lets start small , and not get into coding.. lets start with what we can change.. my idea was to setup/start something where the community has control of, that is where we can take control of the alpha wallpapers..
[19:41] <vish> troy_s: then we can do backgrounds/art in games etc..
[19:41] <troy_s> vish: That would expand into politicking. Good luck on that one.
[19:42] <vish> troy_s: not politicking.. :)  canonical does not have much interest in those yet
[19:42] <vish> troy_s: we just cant start to do everything , we need to be able to show we can do something effectively..
[19:42] <troy_s> vish: Creating work is tricky enough, let alone doing it in some sort of collaborative setting.
[19:43] <troy_s> vish: Yes. It is a well trodden path. ;)
[19:43] <troy_s> vish: I suppose, in a roundabout way, I'm not entirely sure there is a core there at all. And where there is, there is probably significant aesthetic ... uh ... differences.
[19:44] <vish> troy_s: well , i think we have atleast 3 whom i can think of as a core , thats counting you , thorwil and kwwii
[19:44] <troy_s> vish: I'm not there. And won't be.
[19:44] <vish> ;p
[19:45] <troy_s> vish: Sorry.
[19:45] <troy_s> vish: I simply have no time to be honest, and I'm not entirely sure why I should be there at all.
[19:45] <troy_s> vish: I'd rather just like to see people's work.
[19:45] <troy_s> vish: People's work tells all.
[19:45] <troy_s> vish: And there isn't enough of it.
[19:45] <vish> troy_s: np.. well , just thought you might be willing too.. :)  since you often speak about making a change.. well.. nevermind then ;)
[19:46] <vish> s/too/to
[19:46] <troy_s> vish: Change is a tricky thing. It's my subjective opinion on change obviously, and it is clearly a view that isn't shared.
[19:47] <vish> troy_s: hmm, i dont think you got the point.. you need not do them.. but alteast there needs to be someone to review and formulate a direction.
[19:48] <troy_s> vish: And I believe there is quite a bit of flux going on at Canonical at the moment WRT some of the team.
[19:48] <thorwil> vish: you can always count on troy_s for words and count on me for very constructive remarks! ^^
[19:48] <vish> thorwil: ;)
[19:49] <vish> thorwil: troy_s: my idea was to have a core who could help review and direct submissions or create a direction..
[19:49] <vish> obviously not to do the work.. art is not easy ;p
[19:49] <troy_s> vish: Eep.
[19:50] <troy_s> vish: Are there 'submissions' or work?
[19:50] <vish> troy_s: well, whats this > http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/gallery/25667683 , why are people adding their work there?
[19:51] <thorwil> vish: i think the worry here is that "submission" implicates something closed, already wrapped up
[19:51] <troy_s> vish: I believe that is an offshoot of something (correct me if I'm wrong) Dr. Mo started.
[19:51] <troy_s> vish: And uh.
[19:51] <vish> troy_s: yes , thats his but can we use them? why are people submitting there?
[19:52] <thorwil> vish: maybe because they are herd animals?
[19:52] <vish> thorwil: we dont have to close submissions at any point.. its just my general idea..
[19:52] <troy_s> vish: Erm... have you _looked_ at that page?
[19:53] <vish> yea.. no direction! , but can we direct.?
[19:53] <thorwil> vish: no, just the term submission could be seen as pushing things in that fire-and-forget direction
[19:53] <troy_s> vish: Everyone wants to direct. And why shouldn't they? Who makes xxx more or less valuable to yyy? Tough questions.
[19:54] <vish> thorwil: troy_s: is there no hope ? ;)  let me try asking in a different way.. how can the artwork team/ML be useful?
[19:54] <vish> right now , we did nothing during maverick cycle..
[19:55] <troy_s> vish: I'm sure there is hope. I'm just not sure I can see a solution, let alone an 'easy' one. There are PLENTY of bright folks around these parts, and yet nothing yet has really geled.
[19:55] <troy_s> vish: I dare say that maybe this whole thing is backwards?
[19:55] <vish> troy_s: why is that? what do you think is the problem? apart from the ageold rant "Cultural" ;p
[19:55] <thorwil> vish: it would be all about having a niche as mission that can be filled, lasting
[19:56] <troy_s> vish: The _value_ of the work comes from individuals. Maybe it is time to start examining the work and figuring out who you / the community desires?
[19:56] <troy_s> vish: Maybe there is something to be had there?
[19:57] <vish> well , we can trying praying for unicorns.. but are we going to be able to get them? :D
[19:57] <troy_s> vish: No. I meant crawling through existing work. Let's assume that there is a community right now of X size.
[19:57] <troy_s> vish: Having those existing participants evaluate the work on that link and maybe the Flickr link, might be ... insightful.
[19:57] <vish> troy_s: no need to just crawl there , but we can setup a better system
[19:58] <troy_s> vish: By crawl I meant scour / crawl / examine.
[19:58] <vish> troy_s: i was ranting this earlier and doctormo + pleia setup a site with cchost, we can start with a new system
[19:59] <vish> there is no system right now..
[19:59] <troy_s> vish: Is it the system?
[19:59] <vish> and no one cares..
[19:59] <vish> everyone wants to talk but there is little action..
[20:00] <troy_s> vish: It's the people. It's the work. Likely the people you desire have already created work. For various reasons (and that is another story) you value their work. Go talk to _them_.
[20:00] <troy_s> vish: It will _always_ be random noise coming in. Again, any customer support person or scripter can decide one day to label themselves an artist. They might even fool folks into hiring them.
[20:00] <troy_s> vish: So skip that. Go find the work.
[20:00] <vish> troy_s: well , sometimes talking to them is tedious! they are tl;dr   ;p
[20:01] <troy_s> vish: And find the people that are behind it.
[20:01]  * thorwil does not really ponder asking björk for a new sound theme
[20:01] <troy_s> vish: Flickr has some people with eyes.
[20:01] <troy_s> vish: I'd start there.
[20:02] <darkmatter> and avoid deviantfart like the plague ;p
[20:02] <troy_s> There are some pretty good Deviant art folks, but not many that seem to cross over the line.
[20:03] <thorwil> diamonds in dung
[20:05] <vish> troy_s: to be honest , *i* aint anywhere nearly as good as either you or thorwil but i have been able to do some work *on* Ubuntu, and kinda have been able to make some more difference than you'll .. how is that? why is that? this is what got me started thinking.. there are surely people more talented than me out there on the ML who are interested on doing actual work.. i just thought i'd try to help them :)
[20:05] <troy_s> vish: There _are_ some interesting folks in that Flickr selection. How many are interested in working under a unified banner? What might be accomplished? All pretty interesting questions, but it probably requires a plan and then the ability to attract them to the plan.
[20:06] <troy_s> vish: Believe me, I ain't good.
[20:06] <vish> troy_s: believe me i'm even worse ;)
[20:06] <troy_s> vish: But formulating a plan and valuing people's work is probably the best medicine. For example, I was just perusing the Flickr group and there are some submissions there that, while being of whatever worth as a wallpaper, are clearly created with some artistic vision.
[20:07] <troy_s> vish: Figuring out what to do and then being interested in them as _people_ might be worth building?
[20:08] <thorwil> vish: you seem to be a better team player than i am and unlike me, you havn't lost most of your motivation. you also seem to not worry how your involvment here east into the time you should perhpas spend more directl yon a career
[20:08] <troy_s> vish: For example - http://www.flickr.com/photos/flamuraliu/4457570324/in/pool-556923@N24/
[20:08] <thorwil> and you can still type, ouch
[20:08] <troy_s> vish: That person I'd be interested in simply because of the various bits they have created.
[20:09] <troy_s> vish: They clearly have some pretty remarkable talent. There is a vision. There is execution.
[20:10] <vish> thorwil: i just got lucky! :)  truthfully i actually dont spend much time on Ubuntu, probably an hr or two a day ;)
[20:11] <thorwil> an hour or 2 daily and "not  much", hmmm
[20:11] <troy_s> vish: Another person worth following up. http://www.flickr.com/photos/42931016@N08/4906928154/in/pool-556923@N24/
[20:13] <thorwil> makes me wonder what a skilled, resourceful photographer would make out of a "create template shots for an icon theme" job
[20:13] <troy_s> thorwil: There's a good idea.
[20:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Might I dare say that it could snap the damn T / O nightmare?
[20:14] <troy_s> thorwil: Creating photorealistic icons from custom photography is likely far faster too.
[20:17] <troy_s> thorwil: But hell... that's probably far down the foodchain. It would end up another one of the 'slap these icons over whatever'. Higher level woudn't hurt.
[20:19] <troy_s> Wholly poopers there is a lot of double u tee eff in that pool.
[20:24] <troy_s> vish: At any rate... I'm sure there is a viable path. The more I think about it though, the less I'd worry about the 'community' and all of the passing garbage chucked out of a window and more about the individuals. Those with a longer term dedication to creating work. I'm sure there are a few exemplary folks in that Flickr group. Figuring out _who_ is likely at least as hard as creating interesting work. ;)
[20:24] <troy_s> vish: To quote a very clever and creative fellow - http://gregorywood.co.uk/journal/cleese-on-creativity
[20:24] <vish> ;)
[20:25] <troy_s> vish: See what happens if you approach those folks? I wonder...
[20:33] <troy_s> vish: This person has some interesting stuff going on: http://www.flickr.com/photos/evil_m0nkey/4405023316/ There are plenty of misses in their selections, but hits have some magical craftsmanship.
[20:38] <troy_s> I sincerely wonder how many contributions are actually from people that care about Libre software... lol.
[20:38] <vish> troy_s: haha , well.. i'm not gonna be contacting them anyway ;)
[20:39] <vish> i think almost everyone tries a shot like this ;) > http://www.flickr.com/photos/evil_m0nkey/4560262010/in/photostream/
[20:39] <troy_s> vish: Hard to execute really.
[20:40] <troy_s> vish: That whole realm of artistic architectural photography is pretty tricky.
[20:44] <troy_s> vish: Is there anything interesting going on at the list?
[20:46] <vish> troy_s: nope.. nothing.. zero.. zilch.. nada.. ;)
[20:46] <troy_s> vish: Well... plenty of soil to plant in then I suppose... ;)
[20:46] <vish> haha!


[03:43] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Both in Newark.
[03:43] <Takyoji> Jealousy. :P
[19:38] <fisch246> i'm at the ridgedale library
[19:38] <fisch246> anyone else here?
[19:45] <fisch246> next week is my last week of normandale :D
[20:44] <fisch246> i need people's input for where the next party should be
[20:55] <fisch246> anyone know when TIES is meeting this month?


[07:50] <webrsk> happy morning :)
[12:41] <MichealH> Hi webrsk
[13:01] <UndiFineD> hello
[13:02] <UndiFineD> I have been sick for a couple of days
[13:02] <UndiFineD> but I am trying to go out today
[13:25] <UndiFineD> welcome MadnessRed
[13:25] <MadnessRed> hi
[13:25] <MadnessRed> how are you?
[13:25] <UndiFineD> glad the webchat works for you
[13:25] <MadnessRed> yh, was getting a bit worried, coz I couldn't connect with xchat or any desktop clients
[13:25] <UndiFineD> I have been sick for a couple of days .. will go out in 15 minutes
[13:26] <UndiFineD> do you have a router ?
[13:26] <UndiFineD> maybe it is blocking port 6667
[13:27] <UndiFineD> irc bots have also been commonly used for spam bots
[13:27] <UndiFineD> so it can also be aprovider thing
[13:31] <MadnessRed> kk, I am uni so I though they might be blocking it
[13:32] <MadnessRed> the wireless says it only allows ssh and http, but i thought the cabled internet was free
[13:33] <UndiFineD> which uni ?
[13:36] <UndiFineD> I might know a few admins
[13:48]  * UndiFineD gone
[15:08] <MadnessRed> sorry, got distracted by ping-pong, Durham
[15:56]  * UndiFineD is back home
[15:57] <UndiFineD> still no sound card,-ordered one, but out of stock, so ordered another one but more expensive
[15:57] <UndiFineD> bleh
[15:57] <UndiFineD> time for cooking
[16:31] <MichealH> :O
[16:32] <MichealH> OMG MadnessRed live just near me in that case...
[16:33] <MichealH> UndiFineD: ^^
[16:33] <MichealH> :D
[16:55] <Muscovy> Hello all. :D
[18:20] <celsojunior> hi all
[18:47] <UndiFineD> ...
[23:19]  * UndiFineD is getting maverick updates now
[23:43] <Muscovy> :D


[00:30] <KI7MT> phillw, Ok, Im here to bug you :-) .. After reading the message from the head of development, would it make sense to annotate the Lubuntu bugs listed on ubuntu-manual-tests or at least refer them to the Lubuntu Wiki / Testing pages ?
[00:36] <phillw> KI7MT: unless you really want me to go into "rip some ones head'off...... the wiki pages actually need people to pull their finger out of the their collective ass and actually spend a few minutes each month to update.
[00:40] <KI7MT> phillw, no, no need to go into that mode .. I already to daily iso zsync's and such, have lots of VM's running different things.  Is there anything I could help with from a test-case perspective?
[00:41] <KI7MT> *already do .. .
[11:08] <llogiq> Hi folks. How come there are no openjdk-7 packages for 1.7.0_51 on saucy? java -version still lists 1.7.0_25 - Only the Oracle JDK is currently up to date as far as I can see.
[11:43] <koell> Hello Lubuntu users! And hello phillw! :)
[12:19] <Sujatha_Thero> hi guys , i have LG M1 Express Dual laptop. it's keyboard works fine on XP , but not on Lubuntu, i plugged a usb keyboard in , it also works well, what has gone wrong ?
[12:37] <Sujatha_Thero> anyone awake ?
[12:37] <llogiq> Yep.
[12:42] <Sujatha_Thero> i have LG M1 Express Dual laptop. it's keyboard works fine on XP , but not on Lubuntu, i plugged a usb keyboard in , it also works well, what has gone wrong ?
[12:42] <Sujatha_Thero> llogiq:
[12:43] <llogiq> Sujatha_Thero, I don't know. Sounds like some newish hardware?
[12:43] <Sujatha_Thero> no , this an old laptop
[12:43] <Sujatha_Thero> its keyboard works well in Win XP
[12:43] <Sujatha_Thero> but not on Lubuntu
[12:43] <llogiq> Strange. What bus is the keyboard on?
[12:43] <Sujatha_Thero> currently i am using an external usb keyboard
[12:44] <Sujatha_Thero> ibus
[12:44] <llogiq> so it doesn't use usb?
[12:44] <Sujatha_Thero> usb keyboard works though
[12:44] <llogiq> perhaps you need a driver for that?
[12:44] <Sujatha_Thero> i guess so
[12:44] <Sujatha_Thero> where to find it ?
[12:45] <Sujatha_Thero> i guess that the laptop keyboard is not usb ,  might be ps/2
[12:46] <llogiq> Sujatha_Thero, can you check if "lsmod" output contains atkbd?
[12:46] <Sujatha_Thero> wait
[12:48] <Sujatha_Thero> lsmod | grep atk  resulted nothing
[12:50] <Sujatha_Thero> how do i add it ?
[12:53] <llogiq> Sujatha_Thero, modprobe atkbd
[12:53] <llogiq> Probably needs root (so you may want to sudo)
[12:56] <Sujatha_Thero> llogiq: hi  , how to install atkbd ?
[13:01] <Sujatha_Thero> llogiq:  r u around ?
[13:02] <llogiq> Sujatha_Thero, I'm at work, so sorry if I may take some time to answer.
[13:02] <Sujatha_Thero> llogiq:  sorry to disturb u
[13:06] <llogiq> Sujatha_Thero, maybe modprobe xtkbd  will work
[13:06] <Sujatha_Thero> llogiq: i will try n let u know
[13:17] <llogiq> Does anyone know why openjdk-7 is still on 1.7.0_25 on saucy?
[13:27] <deleted> Anyone here use pipelight?
[13:48] <Zara> bonjour
[13:50] <deleted> hi
[13:51] <Zara> you speak french?
[13:51] <deleted> not enough
[13:51] <Zara> ok
[13:51] <Zara> i try to explain
[13:53] <Zara> comment lancer des applications au démarrage de ubuntu?
[13:54] <deleted> lancer?
[13:54] <Zara> how to launch applications at startup of ubuntu?
[13:54] <deleted> ahh
[13:54] <deleted> launch
[13:54] <deleted> This is a good tutorial
[13:54] <deleted> http://askubuntu.com/questions/159008/how-to-add-startup-applications-in-lubuntu
[13:55] <Zara> lubuntu
[13:56] <deleted> ?
[13:56] <llogiq> cu folks.
[13:56] <deleted> bye
[13:57] <Myrtti> Zara: lubuntu ou ubuntu?
[13:57] <Zara> lubuntu
[14:00] <deleted> the guide I linked is for lubuntu
[14:03] <Zara> ok merci
[14:04] <deleted> no problem
[14:28] <jirido> Hi. i got a problem with thunderbird on lubuntu 12.04. It dont get windowframes like the rest of programs.. no max, min and close.. any ideas how to fix or debug this?
[16:05] <wxl> jirido: i've never had that problem before. did you get tbird from the repos?
[16:08] <wxl> jirido: i'd say you should try running with -safe-mode first off
[17:20] <manlin> hi users... anyone got any link/ref/doc to beautifying lubuntu UI?
[17:27] <holstein> manlin: "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" as they say.. i think you will find much info by searching "lxde themes"
[17:29] <manlin> holstein: yeah .. I'm still trying to make it look the way I want it
[17:32] <holstein> manlin: you might have to get more specific.. "how do i add a panel to lxde?".. "how do i apply this icon theme to lxde?".. etc..
[17:35] <manlin> holstein: alright. when i set system theme to panel, the background to applets still show different colors
[17:35] <manlin> in Panel Settings > Appearance
[17:35] <manlin> That's little annoying
[20:19] <RudeViper> is there any way to recover mouse and keyboard - if they don't get recognized after reinstalling and then physically moving the machine? They worked before moving - but don't know and they weren't unplugged.
[20:19] <RudeViper> know = now - sorry for the typo
[20:24] <ianorlin> both keyboard and mouse working is tough as how do you fix that?
[20:24] <ianorlin> do you have any other keyboards or mice?
[20:24] <RudeViper> yes - switched to a usb pair - they aren't showing up either - do I have to reinstall?
[20:25] <ianorlin> did they work in a live seisson?
[20:25] <ianorlin> or where you using alt cd?
[20:26] <RudeViper> yes they worked - even worked after install and several boots - but when I moved machine they quite
[20:26] <RudeViper> I can ssh in so I know it isn't locked up
[20:27] <ianorlin> can you do lsusb through ssh with the usb pair plugged in?
[20:28] <RudeViper> hang on I'll check
[20:28] <RudeViper> it's rebooting so hang on a moment
[20:33] <RudeViper> yeah something crapped out - have to try and reinstall - now computer won't boot at all
[20:34] <ianorlin> um can you get into grub at startup
[20:34] <ianorlin> hold sift if not on dual boot
[20:35] <ianorlin> maybe try another kernel or something if you have an old one
[20:37] <RudeViper> nope - reinstall - lol
[20:38] <RudeViper> ok can I install if from live and disable to gui from there?
[20:38] <RudeViper> I'm setting it up as a file and minecraft server
[20:39] <Unit193> Change /etc/default/grub "quiet splash" to include "text" removing the others or not.
[20:40] <RudeViper> that was what I was about to do when it quite working - lol - no problem - just thought there might be a shortcut for it
[20:41] <Unit193> Shortcut?
[20:42] <RudeViper> wow - booting into live cd - no mouse or keyboard - but it works in bios and first splash screen where you select language and then to try or install - now they are gone
[20:42] <RudeViper> yeah - a setting I could do on install so it just started that way from the get go - no problem with editing grub file though - that is easy peasy
[20:56] <Unit193> Well that's quite the strange one.
[20:57] <ianorlin> also hope it isn't just a dead port
[21:14] <Unit193> He said bios showed them working.
[21:31] <RudeViper> not a dead port - broken mouse - part of the plug broke off inside the ps/2 port - ugh
[21:33] <RudeViper> usb mouse seems to be working - will know for sure after reinstall
[21:46] <RudeViper> anyone know of a keyboard shortcut to bring up the equivelant of the start button?
[21:48] <Unit193> C-Escape
[21:49] <RudeViper> thanks
[21:49] <Unit193> Configurable, ~/.config/openbox/lubuntu-rc.xml
[21:53] <RudeViper> the broken piece that is still in there must be overiding the usb mouse - gotta figure a way to DISABLE the ps/2 port
[21:53] <Unit193> lsmod | grep ps
[22:03] <RudeViper> ok dug the piece of plastic out - crossing fingers here
[22:14] <RudeViper> nope - wouldn't start - so I put the dvd back in and I;m still getting the screwed up mouse pointer - lol
[22:39] <RudeViper> ok when this thing gets done - the lsmod | grep ps command will turn of the ps2 port?
[22:39] <Unit193> Nope.
[22:39] <ianorlin> no it will show if a driver is listed
[22:39] <RudeViper> ok
[22:39] <ianorlin> in the kernel module
[22:39] <RudeViper> anyway to actually disable it period?
[22:40] <ianorlin> blacklist the ps2mouse driver I think
[22:40] <RudeViper> eventually I'll be in text mode anyway but some stuff I need the gui for to start with
[22:40] <RudeViper> ok
[22:41] <RudeViper> gotta love old computers huh?
[22:48] <RudeViper> ok I just typed lsmod | grep ps and nothing came up


[06:20] <HarryS> Hello, does the ubuntu team mind if I create and run the channel #ubuntu-gays? I am making it for other Ubuntu users like me who are also LGBT, in hopes for a friendly enviornment.
[12:00] <BasicXP> hello! what do I need to get an IRC cloak?
[12:01] <Destine> the same question huh.
[12:01] <BasicXP> umhum
[12:01]  * ZachK_ has same question
[12:01] <BasicXP> kinda weird that i don't see any operators on the channel as in #ubuntu-meeting
[12:01] <ZachK_> lol
[12:02] <ZachK_> being an Ubuntu channel op is like huge so...
[12:02] <vish> Pici tsimpson jussi  ^^^
[12:02] <Destine> BasicXP, guess most of them are.
[12:02] <DJones> Just wait around for a while, somebody will notice your request
[12:02] <jpds> BasicXP: No, we only op ourselves when it is necessary to do so.
[12:02] <vish> ZachK_: BasicXP: you also have to mention your lp links
[12:02] <jpds> Like so.
[12:02] <ZachK_> https://edge.launchpad.net/~zach-kleinhenz
[12:02] <BasicXP> oh ok
[12:02] <BasicXP> https://launchpad.net/~basicxp
[12:02] <vish> Destine: too
[12:03] <Destine> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EleanorChen
[12:03] <Destine> sorry
[12:03] <BasicXP> do i have to setup the irc client some way?
[12:03] <Destine> paste the wrong one.
[12:03] <Destine> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chenyueg
[12:03] <ZachK_> BasicXP: no....
[12:03] <BasicXP> yay cool
[12:03] <tsimpson> so, who want's a cloak?
[12:03]  * ZachK_ does
[12:03] <BasicXP> mee!
[12:04] <Destine> me!
[12:04] <BasicXP> :)
[12:04]  * ZachK_ can it be ZachK_@ubuntu/member/ZachK_ ?
[12:04] <BasicXP> and i want ask one for malamut too. he was recently approved as a member. http://launchpad.net/~malamut
[12:05] <tsimpson> BasicXP: they need to ask I'm afraid
[12:05] <vish> BasicXP: probably better if the members asks themselves ;)
[12:05] <BasicXP> oh okay i'll call him
[12:05] <tsimpson> ZachK_: if you set your account name to ZachK_
[12:05] <ZachK_> tsimpson: my account? nickserv or lp
[12:05] <tsimpson> nickserv
[12:05] <ZachK_> ZachK_ is my nickserv account name
[12:05] <tsimpson> /msg NickServ help set ACCOUNTNAME
[12:06] <tsimpson> ok, just give me a sec here :)
[12:06] <Destine> malamut, you finally come.
[12:06] <BasicXP> there he is
[12:06] <malamut> Destine: yes))
[12:07] <malamut> May i have a cloak too? https://launchpad.net/~malamut
[12:07] <BasicXP> âîò âîò )
[12:07] <BasicXP> äîëæíû äàòü
[12:07]  * tsimpson does the admin
[12:08] <Destine> BasicXP, can't read...
[12:08] <BasicXP> Destine: that's for malamut
[12:08] <BasicXP> we're Russians )
[12:08] <Destine> BasicXP, oh...
[12:08] <tsimpson> VorTechS, marienz, niko: ping for one of you
[12:09] <marienz> tsimpson: pong
[12:09] <BasicXP> malamut: òåêñò òî õîòü ÷èòàåòñÿ? èëè îïÿòü ñ êîäèðîâêîé ëàæà?
[12:10] <tsimpson> marienz: hi :) can you give BasicXP a @ubuntu/member/BasicXP cloak please? (and stick around for a few more)
[12:10] <marienz> sure
[12:10] <malamut> BasicXP: I can't read too))
[12:10] <Destine> BasicXP, ah... how can i decode that...
[12:10] <BasicXP> d'oh! :(
[12:10] <niko> hi
[12:11] <ZachK_> does this change my status on the forums too?
[12:11] <marienz> woo I was faster than niko
[12:11] <tsimpson> marienz: and an @ubuntu/member/Destine cloak for Destine please
[12:11] <jussi> marienz: rock on :D
[12:12] <malamut> can you make a cloak for me too?))
[12:12] <BasicXP> cloak is working, thanks!
[12:12] <Destine> tsimpson, marienz thank you.
[12:12] <marienz> np
[12:12] <vish> ZachK_: for the forums , you have to email separately
[12:12] <tsimpson> marienz: and @ubuntu/member/ZachK_ for ZachK_
[12:12] <vish> ZachK_: info is in the membership wiki
[12:12] <ZachK_> vish: what's the link to do so?
[12:12] <ZachK_> vish: thanks
[12:13] <tsimpson> malamut: can you add your IRC nick on your LP profile please
[12:13] <marienz> tsimpson: sorry, I cannot put underscores in a cloak
[12:13] <tsimpson> marienz: oh right
[12:13] <malamut> tsimpson: I've add^ https://launchpad.net/~malamut
[12:13] <tsimpson> ZachK_: ^
[12:13] <BasicXP> two questions - does freenode have ssl and what encoding is standart in here?
[12:14] <ZachK_> tsimpson: ok just do ZachK then
[12:14] <jpds> BasicXP: 1) Yes, port 6697.
[12:14] <marienz> BasicXP: ssl: yes, connect to port 7000 or 7070 for that
[12:14] <BasicXP> umm so 6697, 7000 or 7070? :)
[12:14] <tsimpson> ZachK_: do you own the nick? and can you set the account name to it?
[12:14] <marienz> jpds: no, port 6697 isn't ssl here (although it is on a bunch of other networks, so it's an understandable mistake)
[12:14] <ZachK_> tsimpson: one sec
[12:14] <BasicXP> okay. and encoding?
[12:14] <jpds> marienz: True, just realized that.
[12:14] <marienz> BasicXP: varies per channel.
[12:14] <marienz> if in doubt stick to utf-8
[12:14] <ZachK> nope i can't
[12:15] <BasicXP> what about ubuntu channels?
[12:15] <BasicXP> they differ too?
[12:15] <Destine> re-log to see my cloak then.
[12:15] <marienz> Destine: you're already cloaked
[12:15] <tsimpson> marienz: an @ubuntu/member/Malamut cloak for malamut please
[12:15] <BasicXP> yes Destine
[12:15] <marienz> Destine: your own client may not show it, but everyone else does see it
[12:15] <Destine> marienz, oh, thanks!
[12:15] <tsimpson> ZachK: looks like the nick is taken by someone else
[12:16] <ZachK> tsimpson: yup
[12:16] <marienz> and it was used recently, so I cannot drop it for you
[12:16] <tsimpson> you could just go with the slightly less pretty cloak
[12:16] <ZachK> um can you give me a few to think of one?
[12:16] <tsimpson> /ZachK/x-.....
[12:17] <tsimpson> sure
[12:17] <ZachK> k
[12:19] <ZachK> wait...howcome my nick is ZachK without the underscore?
[12:19] <ZachK> it didn't revert back to a random one
[12:19] <vish> ZachK: probably the user is not logged in right now
[12:19] <ZachK> hmm
[12:20] <Tm_T> unique nicks <3
[12:20] <ZachK> ok what's the not pretty hostname in full
[12:20] <ZachK_> because ZachK_ is what i use most everywhere because it's unique
[12:21] <vish> ZachK_: you can use you nick , the cloak will be named differently
[12:21] <vish> your* nick
[12:21] <tsimpson> it'll be @ubuntu/member/ZachK/x-some-random-chars
[12:21] <tsimpson> I think :)
[12:21] <ZachK_> ok
[12:21] <tsimpson> is that good with you?
[12:22] <ZachK_> i've been dealing with ZachK_@zachk_/Zachk18 for some time so yeah i think i can handle it...its the nick people see anyway..not the hostname
[12:23] <tsimpson> marienz: can you set that please
[12:23] <vish> ZachK_: yeah , like for Tm_T his cloak is different bug we know Tm_T ;)
[12:23] <vish> but*
[12:23]  * marienz mashes keyboard
[12:23] <BasicXP> thank you for the cloak! good bye!
[12:24] <tsimpson> anyone I missed?
[12:24] <Tm_T> Destine: ?
[12:24] <Tm_T> oh he got already, ignore me (:
[12:24] <Destine> Tm_T, hi?
[12:25] <Tm_T> Destine: was just making sure you got your cloak (:)
[12:25] <tsimpson> ok :)
[12:25]  * tsimpson goes back into the depths of the intertubes
[12:25]  * Tm_T huggles tsimpson
[12:25] <Destine> Tm_T, thank you.
[12:25] <niko> tsimpson: some days ago legreffier asked for his ubuntu cloak too
[12:26] <tsimpson> let me see if they are about
[12:28] <tsimpson> though the idle time makes me think not
[12:28] <tsimpson> ooh, wrong
[12:28] <ZachK_> thanks all
[12:28]  * ZachK_ must go to do some stuff
[12:28] <legreffier> hello :)
[12:29] <ZachK_> legreffier: hello
[12:29] <ZachK_> what can we do for you?
[12:29] <tsimpson> legreffier: can you post your LP profile please
[12:30] <legreffier> https://launchpad.net/~ylamouroux
[12:30] <ZachK_> ok thanks all..
[12:31]  * ZachK_ out
[12:31] <tsimpson> niko: would you give legreffier an @ubuntu/member/legreffier cloak please :)
[12:32] <legreffier> niko: yeah plz :)
[12:32] <marienz> done
[12:32] <legreffier> oh cool :) thanks
[12:32] <marienz> np
[12:32] <tsimpson> well done to all the new members
[12:32] <niko> :)
[14:43] <_HardDisk> may I say something? and it's not being spiteful.
[14:43] <Pici> Hmm?
[14:44] <_HardDisk> I was rejected as a member and from what I've seen of other new members, where I've placed more work than them, I don't understand on what basis do I get rejected.
[14:45] <vish> _HardDisk: its kinda off topic here, but you can appeal to the council if you feel you were unfairly rejected
[14:45] <vish> community council
[14:45] <_HardDisk> I've sent a letter of appeal to the council members.  It's been over a week no one replied.
[14:46] <Pici> _HardDisk: Which council did you contact?
[14:46] <_HardDisk> one sec.
[14:48] <HardDisk><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:49] <HardDisk> that's the email I sent to
[14:49] <HardDisk> it was sent June 2nd
[14:53] <Pici> HardDisk: I just left a message myself to the CC asking that someone try to get back to you.
[14:53] <HardDisk> thanks
[14:54] <HardDisk> appreciate it.
[15:00] <vish> Pici: hmm , didnt know you were at the UDS , could have met you in person :(
[15:00] <Pici> vish: I couldn't make it to this last one, but I've been to the 9.04 and 10.04 ones.
[15:01] <vish> Pici: oh! you werent there?  phew! ;)  i missed meeting ~5 people and thought i didnt meet you as well :)
[15:02] <vish> Pici: weird , i read on some channel that you were there , hence the confusion ;
[15:03] <Pici> vish: It would be news to me ;)
[15:03] <vish> lol!
[15:03] <vish> Pici: heh , must be the classic Pici <-> pitti tab fails
[15:04] <Pici> I haven't gotten his hilights in a while, although I'll probably get a bunch of them now.
[15:30]  * h00k waves to everyone
[15:54] <HardDisk> Pici, thank you btw, I just received an email from Mark Shuttleworth.
[15:54] <Pici> HardDisk: Cool beans.
[15:55] <HardDisk> I think I'm gonna post his message on my ubuntu blog :D
[15:55] <HardDisk> the Egypt Team guys will love this
[15:57] <tsimpson> HardDisk: make sure you ask permission first, it's not polite to post private emails on a public blog
[15:58] <HardDisk> oh of course.
[15:58] <tsimpson> unless it was sent to a public list, of course
[15:58] <HardDisk> and it was sent to me and to the community council
[15:58] <HardDisk> but of course I do know internet etiquette
[15:58] <HardDisk> I will ask permission first.
[16:00] <tsimpson> btw, the cc list is not public
[16:03] <HardDisk> which is why I'll ask permission first.
[16:35] <MTecknology> I'm trying to remember - how do you remove somebody from a channel w/o +o
[16:37] <HardDisk> you ask someone with +o
[16:37] <MTecknology> You can remove w/o being opp'ed - I can't remember how though
[16:38] <Pici> No, you cannot.
[16:38] <MTecknology> Pici: oh.. what can you do w/o being opped?
[16:39] <Pici> MTecknology: Change the topic, (un)mute someone, (de)voice someone
[16:39] <MTecknology> Pici: oh, thanks
[16:40] <Pici> MTecknology: see /msg chanserv help
[20:09] <arand> For ubottu PMs, can one look at channel-specific factoids somehow+
[20:10] <niko> arand: how a bot could know ?
[20:11] <jussi> arand: yes,
[20:11] <jpds> arand: /msg ubottu !hi-#ubuntu-lol
[20:11] <arand> jpds: Ah, thank.