[00:46] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Tiago Carrondo: S01E06 â Mestres no Open Source @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/2018/10/20/s01e06-mestres-no-open-source/
[03:18] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Lubuntu Blog: Lubuntu 18.10 (Cosmic Cuttlefish) Released! @ https://lubuntu.me/cosmic-released/
[03:18] <tsimonq2> krytarik: Duuuude, newsletter? :P
[03:24] <krytarik> Nopiti nope, for a similar reason as the other one - only this time I don't know of any flavor that didn't post about the release. :P
[03:29] <Unit193> krytarik: But they were the only ones to do so late, so perhaps points for that..
[03:33] <tsimonq2> Unit193: We did it late so we would get more press coverage.
[03:33] <tsimonq2> When you're bombarded with ten release announcements, you kinda skim >_>
[10:39] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Lubuntu 18.10 Is Out, First Release to Ship with the LXQt Desktop by Default @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/lubuntu-18-10-is-out-first-release-to-ship-with-the-lxqt-desktop-by-default-523342.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
[16:37] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Portugal:: S01E06 – Mestres no Open Source @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/2018/10/20/s01e06-mestres-no-open-source/


[00:38] <snap-l> maco: Stuff of nightmares: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BSVqZ_9k8cU/Se6jfKFHoCI/AAAAAAAAAFc/jeCePpLNGys/s1600-h/doncha.jpg
[03:14] <nigelb> maco: lol, where do you find these :-)
[08:50] <bkerensa> =o
[08:50] <bkerensa> i broke gcalc
[08:50] <bkerensa> :D
[12:03]  * duanedesign waves  to nigelb
[12:04] <duanedesign> nigelb: wanted to wish you a happy and prosperous new year!
[12:04] <nigelb> Hey duanedesign :)
[12:50] <akgraner> Does anyone know if the Brainstorm code base is being actively maintained and if so by whom?
[12:51] <akgraner> OH and HAPPY NEW YEAR everybody!
[12:51] <mhall119> happy new year akgraner
[12:51] <mhall119> I'm not sure if/who though
[12:52] <akgraner> ok that's seems to be the answer I am getting - I have someone who wants to use it
[12:53] <popey> stgraber is probably a good person to ask
[12:53] <popey> not because he maintains it, but because I think he knows who does
[12:55] <akgraner> popey, thank you!
[15:02] <jcastro> akgraner: it was nicholas deschildre
[15:02] <jcastro> but he's been gone a long time now
[15:02] <akgraner> ok thanks
[15:03] <popey> bbc used the code for a while
[15:03] <popey> dunno if they still do
[15:04] <popey> https://code.launchpad.net/ideatorrent
[15:04] <popey> not many updates
[15:05] <jcastro> does dell still do their thing at all?
[15:05] <popey> http://www.ideastorm.com/
[15:09] <bkerensa> =o it would cost me close to $100 to get a Ubuntu hoodie with shipping
[15:09] <bkerensa> jumping jigawatts
[15:10] <czajkowski> bkerensa: now you know how folks feel when they want threadless or tshirt hell stuff shipped from usa :0
[15:10] <czajkowski> :)
[15:14] <mhall119> morning jcastro, dpm, balloons
[15:14] <dpm> hey mhall119, good morning!
[15:14] <jcastro> is dholbach back yet?
[15:20] <bkerensa> czajkowski: :(
[15:21] <czajkowski> though now I get stuff shiped to mate in canada a lot cheaper and she does package shippments to family or they are over there regualrly enough to get stuff
[15:22] <bkerensa> czajkowski: Yeah... Well I'm not doing registered mail with canonical again.... Her Majesty got my package stuck at U.S. Customs for a week :D
[15:23] <bkerensa> UPS has got to be the way going forward... I think I just need to get enough people to do a group purchase
[15:23] <mhall119> jcastro: ping
[15:23] <jcastro> YESSIR
[15:23] <mhall119> got time for a quick hangout?  I want to test my new webcam
[15:24] <czajkowski> bkerensa: aye before I've gotten landded with a large VAt bill when it landed in dublin from thinkgeek almost as much as the stuff I paid
[15:24] <czajkowski> was not happy
[15:24] <bkerensa> heh
[15:24] <jcastro> mhall119: yeah, fire it up
[15:24] <bkerensa> :D ThinkGeek sends me free stuff if I ask
[15:24] <bkerensa> :P
[15:24] <bkerensa> at their expense
[15:25] <mhall119> jcastro: invite sent
[15:25] <czajkowski> bkerensa: see I dont feel sorry for you now about your hoodie :)
[15:25] <bkerensa> czajkowski: It comes with strings attached.... I have to review it and usually its stuff I dont actually want and end up giving away to my neighbors kids
[15:27] <jcastro> mhall119: one sec
[15:27] <mhall119> problems?
[15:50] <balloons> morning mhall1119
[16:11] <JanC> bkerensa: you write reviews like "this is actually useless to me" and they *keep* sending stuff?  :P
[16:14] <bkerensa> JanC: Nah... I write reviews that are favorable and they keep sending stuff ;)
[16:14] <bkerensa> jk mostly
[16:14]  * bkerensa has to blast Kingston in a review soon for their lack of supporting Linux
[16:43] <jono_> mhall119, can we chat today?
[16:44] <mhall119> jono_: any time, I have my webcam now
[16:44] <jono_> jcastro, let's sync up today too
[16:44] <jono_> mhall119, nice!
[16:44] <jcastro> fo sho
[16:44] <jono_> does that mean I need to get dressed?
[16:44] <jcastro> yep
[16:44] <jono_> damn
[16:44] <jcastro> well, at least waist up
[16:44] <balloons> only from the waist up :-)
[16:44] <jcastro> I can go any time too
[16:44] <balloons> jcastro beat me to the punch!
[16:44] <jono_> lol
[16:48] <snap-l> I think I have the new Ubuntu 12.04 tagline: Ubuntu: Pants Optional.
[16:48] <snap-l> Precise Pangolin Pants Preferred?
[16:49] <mhall119> might be awkward for our British friends
[16:49] <snap-l> They had their chance with Karmic Knickers.
[16:50] <mhall119> lol
[16:50] <jono> mhall119, ok let's talk in the next 15 mins or so, just wrapping some discussions now
[16:50] <snap-l> Even Natty Knickers would have worked, but NOOOOO
[16:52] <mhall119> jono: send me a hangout invite whenever you're ready
[16:56] <jono> mhall119, will do
[17:15] <jono> mhall119, hangout sent
[17:24] <jono> jcastro, hey, can you join a hangout now with mhall119 and I
[17:27] <jcastro> YEAH!
[17:27] <jono> mhall119, I lost you
[17:27] <jono> jcastro, ok, bringing you in
[17:27]  * czajkowski removes jcastro caps key
[17:28] <mhall119> jono: Unity crashed on me :(
[17:28] <jono> mhall119, ugh
[17:29] <jono> jcastro is here, we will wait for you
[18:43] <james_w> mhall119, hi, is it true that scopes have to depend on the lenses they are for?
[18:44] <mhall119> james_w: to be shown as add-ons on software center, they need to use the Enhances field in debian/control, with the lens package they enhance
[18:45] <mhall119> james_w: join #ayatana to discuss that more with us
[18:45] <james_w> mhall119, I have a developer that is saying that to submit a lens and scope to s-c they have to make the scope *depend* on the lens
[18:45] <james_w> which is against the rules of extras
[18:46] <mhall119> james_w: I don't think that's entirely accurate
[18:46] <james_w> I'm trying to find out if it is true before I push for an exception in the policy
[18:46] <mhall119> james_w: we have been told that lens packages will get some exceptions to rules like that
[18:46] <AlanBell> that is an interesting point
[18:47] <mhall119> james_w: bring it up in #ayatana, davidcalle, didrocks and mtp have been talking about how to get lenses into USC properly
[18:47] <jcastro> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/112109-canonical-announcing-ubuntu-concept-device-at-ces-this-year?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ziffdavis%2Fextremetech+%28Extremetech%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
[18:47] <jcastro> hah
[18:47] <AlanBell> is the lens also in extras or is that in the main repos?
[18:47] <jcastro> look at the brand name on the back of the tablet
[18:47] <mhall119> shuttlepad, awesome
[18:47] <james_w> AlanBell, extras I assume, or this wouldn't be coming up
[18:49] <AlanBell> james_w: so it could depend on an existing lens, but things in extras can't depend on each other right?
[18:49] <james_w> as it stands, yes
[19:36] <popey> hahah
[20:03] <jono> jcastro, ok to chat soon?
[20:42] <jcastro> jono: yeah, sorry I missed your ping
[20:43] <jcastro> mhall119: https://launchpad.net/~markjtully/+archive/ppa
[20:43] <jcastro> this guy fixes lenses and puts them in a PPA
[20:43] <jcastro> we should snag him too
[20:46] <jcastro> jono: I can go whenevs
[20:54] <jono> jcastro, ok about set
[21:01] <jono> jcastro, invite sent
[21:02] <jcastro> and I'm in!
[21:02] <jono> jcastro, I don't see you
[21:40] <jcastro> jono: bah that thread has no content about the actual status, just us coordinating to have a call about it
[21:41] <jcastro> we did have a call a day or two before the holidays though
[21:42] <jcastro> so hopefully some progress has been made recently
[21:44] <mhall119> jcastro: I'm going to put together a "highlights reel" blog post to list all the lenses and scopes I'm aware of, do you know of any others?
[21:47] <mhall119> AlanBell: is your openerp lens code public?
[21:47] <AlanBell> not right now because it has hardcoded connection details
[21:48] <mhall119> AlanBell: is it going to be at some point?
[21:48] <AlanBell> yes
[21:48] <mhall119> or can I get a screenshot? sanitized is okay
[21:48] <AlanBell> I would love to know the right way to do a lens that needs a bit of configuration and authentication
[21:48] <mhall119> AlanBell: me too, are you in #ayatana?
[21:49] <AlanBell> yes
[22:11] <jcastro> mhall119: I know of this one: http://askubuntu.com/questions/38772/what-lenses-for-unity-are-available
[22:11] <jcastro> there's one for indicators too
[22:11] <jcastro> which wouldn't be a bad thing to highlight/steal and put on unity.ubuntu.comn
[22:12] <jcastro> mhall119: the snarky comment I said to mpt was "maybe we don't want to highlight indicators, it will just encourage people to make more."
[22:12] <jcastro> hah
[22:15] <jcastro> I used this often: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/whyappindicators%3F.png
[22:16] <czajkowski> Pendulum: http://lwn.net/Articles/473007/
[22:17] <pleia2> \o/
[22:18] <AlanBell> jcastro: can you point me at the spec for indicators
[22:18] <AlanBell> want to see who needs slapping for the unlabled images at the top level
[22:18] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators
[22:21] <AlanBell> bah, the spec is broken
[22:23] <Pendulum> czajkowski: yeah, that's been on my radar. I'm glad it made it into LWN :)
[22:23] <AlanBell> so from what I can see the indicators have no concept of their own name
[22:24] <AlanBell> they are instantiated with app_indicator_new taking an id, an icon name (not readable) and a category (not unique) and there is no indicator name anywhere else
[22:25] <AlanBell> and if you use app_indicator_set_label then you get the string printed (like the clock) and can't supress that
[22:41] <AlanBell> indicator-messages kind of gets it right, there is an update_a11y_desc method that gets called in a few places and cruicially sets the description property of the image.
[22:42] <AlanBell> this is one of those things that would be so much more consistent if it was baked into the spec
[22:44] <AlanBell> oh and it even changes from "Messages" to "New Messages" when you have mail
[22:54] <mhall119> jcastro: awesome example of why systray is bad
[22:57] <mhall119> AlanBell: have you looked at lenses from an accessibility perspective?
[23:07] <AlanBell> yeah, they say "button" a lot
[23:07] <AlanBell> but generally are kind of navigable
[23:08] <AlanBell> sometimes they read odd numbers for the total number of results in a folded up category
[23:08] <AlanBell> I think the filters are hard to get to and some are not readable like the ratings filters
[23:10] <AlanBell> I think the most broken new feature being introduced in precise is the shortcuts overlay on long hold of the super key


[01:11] <mapps> aquarius isnt bad
[01:11] <mapps> on ep8/13;]
[01:24] <ball> Matel Aquarius?
[01:26] <penguin42> haha
[03:01] <mapps> ne
[03:02] <mapps> the tv show=]
[03:09] <ball> mapps: I haven't seen (or heard of) it.
[03:10] <mapps> hm
[03:10] <mapps> check imdb;p
[03:10] <daftykins> mornin'
[03:10] <mapps> mornin daftykins , just wakeup?
[03:11] <daftykins> newp
[03:11] <daftykins> just sat on the sofa
[03:12] <mapps> :D
[03:12] <mapps> what u watching?
[03:12] <mapps> im on e9 of aquarius now yay was on e2 today been atchin it all night
[03:12] <mapps> 13 eps will have it done by monday
[03:12] <daftykins> just got the lengthy headphones plugged into the amp with some music on from the HTPC at the mo
[03:14] <ball> I need to buy a new telly before I think about an HTPC
[03:15] <ball> Mine's ...unwell.
[03:15] <mapps> :(
[03:15] <mapps> ive got a 44" asung full d does the job i use a sumvision cyclone micro 3 to play my media fils
[03:16] <mapps> whats your htpc daftykins
[03:17] <daftykins> well i have an ancient atom + ion 1 nettop by ASRock, but i've been recently playing with... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/87pjdo1y2ipaoge/AADHn4GFQCQiihkHql-AeR0sa?dl=0
[03:18] <daftykins> wifi can't handle my content though :)
[03:28] <mapps> 180p?
[03:28] <mapps> 1080
[03:28] <daftykins> of course
[03:28] <daftykins> it's more my router + placement than wifi tech not handling the content, mind you
[03:28] <daftykins> my proper HTPC is wired :> as it should be
[03:30]  * ball sighs
[03:30] <daftykins> hmm?
[03:30] <daftykins> still can't read that thing?
[03:30] <ball> I should probably drop some Cat5e but it's such a hassle.
[03:31] <daftykins> 6 :)
[03:31] <daftykins> i loved it, as usual had my place all networked way before i had a net connection sorted
[03:32] <ball> I suppose I could go into the cupboard and up to the attic that way.
[03:32] <ball> ...but then I'll have to find a way to route the cable down into the kitchen where the router lives.
[03:34] <daftykins> kitchen O_O
[03:34] <daftykins> put a fresh phone line, if xDSL, somewhere else? :D
[03:35] <ball> daftykins: I suppose I could put up a shelf in the garage and put all the networky stuff out there.
[03:36] <daftykins> anywhere that's nice an' cool :)
[03:37] <ball> daftykins: Everywhere's cool in the winter. The garage shouldn't get too hot in summer because it's at least in the shade.
[03:37] <ball> -20C for days on end.
[03:37]  * ball shudders
[03:37] <daftykins> hehe
[03:37] <ball> I'm getting too old for these winters.
[03:38] <ball> ...but I don't have the luxury of moving elsewhere.
[03:41] <daftykins> what neck of the woods did you end up in again?
[03:44] <ball> daftykins: Illinois, USA
[03:49] <ball> Oh well. I should go and watch a Coursera lecture or something.
[03:50] <ball> I hope everyone has a good morning.
[03:55] <daftykins> and you sir o/
[03:56] <ball> Thanks
[03:56] <ball> I said that and then got into a conversation in ##electronics
[03:56] <ball> I'm trying to find a 7V battery. :-)
[03:56] <daftykins> ooh
[03:57] <daftykins> could be fun
[03:57] <ball> Someone found a mammoth 7.5V battery that's for electric fences. Think I'll pass on that one. :-D
[04:00] <daftykins> whoa i wonder what those look like
[04:01] <ball> A bit like a small bucket.
[04:01] <ball> I think I may use a six-cell AAA holder and NiMH cells.
[04:02] <ball> That's 7.2V and will be less unweildy.
[04:03] <daftykins> NiMH always reminds me of the rats of Nimh
[04:04]  * ball nods
[04:04] <daftykins> ok i must run, cya \o
[04:06] <ball> Goodbye!
[08:49] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:49] <bigcalm> Anybody here got Netflix working in Chromium?
[08:50] <bigcalm> Or do I have to install chrome?
[08:56]  * bigcalm installs chrome and gets on with his life
[09:11] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:14] <bigcalm> Afternoon
[09:16] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[13:52] <popey> bigcalm: yes, needs chrome
[14:58] <bigcalm> tum te tum
[14:58] <bigcalm> What's good to watch on Netflix?
[14:59]  * penguin42 doesn't have this new fangled tech
[15:01] <zmoylan-pi> not as good as a 14" portable telly with bunny ears in the 80s with 8bit computer plugged into it... :-)
[15:04] <zmoylan-pi> the hammer horror and sci fi flick seasons on bbc2 and c4...
[15:04] <penguin42> The Freeview 'Horror' channel is particularly bad
[15:11] <shauno> meh, you can keep channel36, I've got my amiga doing hdmi now :)
[15:12] <penguin42> haha
[15:12] <zmoylan-pi> still rendering babylon5? :-P
[15:16] <shauno> I'd be impressed if they could get it do genlock on hd720; but probably not entirely surprised.  just impressed
[15:18] <zmoylan-pi> amiga still has a lot of fans as it was just so far ahead
[15:20] <shauno> I dunno.  it's mostly just stupid now.  the video card in my amiga is newer than the one in my mac
[15:21] <shauno> it cracks me up that there's still people designing, building & selling new hardware for it
[15:22] <penguin42> yeh odd isn't it
[15:22] <zmoylan-pi> where there's geeks there's brass :-)
[15:28] <penguin42> or more normally copper and silicon
[15:28] <zmoylan-pi> hey, in some of the 70s and 80s ancient systems there was gold
[15:29] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Hey a Pentium Pro from ~2000 has enough gold to make it worth extracting
[15:30] <shauno> in ~2000 you probably could have panned for gold on my bedroom floor :/
[15:31] <shauno> luckily I don't quite have the elephant graveyard thing going on anymore
[15:31] <penguin42> ahem, I still do :-)
[15:32] <penguin42> shauno: Can't offer you a Sun 3/60 can I ?
[15:32] <shauno> I move too often.  things just disapppear
[15:32] <penguin42> nod
[15:33]  * zmoylan-pi waits for someone to admit using a vax just as a warm spot for their cat... :-D
[15:35]  * penguin42 doesn't have a cat (or a vax)
[15:36] <zmoylan-pi> but have an above average amount of penguins? :-)
[15:36] <penguin42> maybe....
[15:36] <shauno> never really got into unix boxes.  when you say vax, I just picture a henry-style vacuum.  which shouldn't be applied to cats I guess.
[15:37]  * penguin42 was a bit late for vaxen
[15:37] <zmoylan-pi> my father used a nilfisk hoover on the cat who had a horrible skin condition at the time to stop it spreading.  did leave the cat with a slight /impression/ of the hoover afterwards though...
[15:38] <penguin42> haha
[15:38] <daftykins> shauno: you killed elepehants :(
[15:39] <zmoylan-pi> years later she was still pushing the hoover down stairs to eliminate her oppressor...
[15:39] <daftykins> so a drastic vacuum sucking to the cat's skin prevented it from spreading?
[15:40] <shauno> oh I killed everything.  the interesting bits are always on the inside.  if I'd been a med student I would have been jack the ripper.
[15:41] <daftykins> :D
[15:41] <daftykins> so what happened to dan?
[15:41] <zmoylan-pi> there was some tick in the scales of skin coming off, so hoovering off the dead skin meant it healed in 2 weeks instead of pills for months. not sure the cat appreciate the quick cure...
[15:41] <daftykins> ah wow
[15:41] <shauno> he wdan turned out to be more interesting on the inside ;)
[15:41] <daftykins> how did your dad know?
[15:42] <zmoylan-pi> he'd dealt with a lot of cats with this condition as it was common in our town at the time
[15:43] <daftykins> ah har
[15:43] <daftykins> somewhere was a crashed UFO with the cause
[15:45] <zmoylan-pi> i think it was just stray cats with the tick fighting domestic cats spreading it
[15:48] <MartijnVdS> tick fighting?
[15:49] <penguin42> better than stick fighting
[16:14] <Azelphur> Anyone know of a nice piece of software for browsing games with a 10ft interface and controller support?
[16:14] <MartijnVdS> steam
[16:15] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: not sure if I could use steam with emulated games and such? plus internet connectivity is somewhat of an issue
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I think you can put custom links to games in steam, and it'll just run the program for you
[16:16] <Azelphur> yea I think you can too, but I'm sure I've seen software dedicated to this whole emulator thing.
[16:49] <daftykins> hrmm yeah what's the one a mate uses
[16:49] <daftykins> lets see
[16:55] <daftykins> Azelphur: how about that ROM collection browser thing?
[16:55] <daftykins> might've been Pi only, not sure
[16:55] <Azelphur> I found Emulation Station, it looks really good :)
[17:06] <popey> speaking of which
[17:06] <popey> I'm using emulation station on a pi 2
[17:06] <popey> works nicely
[17:06] <popey> decided to put all the games on my server, and mount that over the /home/pi/retropie/roms dir
[17:07] <popey> so I can have more than one and keep roms in one place and not have to load up the pi with stuff
[17:07] <Azelphur> Yea I'm certainly liking it, I'm gonna be using it at the national autistic society, I think this'll score me some points
[17:07] <popey> its really nicely done
[17:07] <popey> only shows emulators in the list if it finds roms
[17:07] <popey> which surprised me, but makes sense.
[17:07] <Azelphur> nice :)
[17:07] <Myrtti> I ♥ Dell's Twitter support. That is all.
[17:07] <Azelphur> bought 4 xbox controllers, setting it up so that the xbox button kills the emulator which returns you to game selection, which is controlled by the xbox controller
[17:08] <Azelphur> got wiimotes hooked up for wii games, xbox for everything else
[17:08] <popey> sweet
[17:31] <directhex> not 4 stream controllers? :o
[17:33] <bigcalm> directhex: were you going to buy one no matter the cost?
[17:34] <directhex> bigcalm: i've already preordered, at game in town
[17:35] <directhex> http://www.game.co.uk/en/hardware/steam/?merchname=hubsteam-_-controller-_-HardwareBundles
[17:35] <bigcalm> Steam link and controller for under 100 quid
[17:36] <bigcalm> I think I just might
[17:36] <bigcalm> How well do they work with enternet over power?
[17:36] <bigcalm> That is, what sort of bandwidth does steam streaming need?
[17:36] <directhex> no idea! fine, i'd guess. latency is the main problem
[17:38] <bigcalm> I'll pre-order once I've been paid (in 3 days)
[17:38] <bigcalm> Hope I remember to
[17:39] <Azelphur> popey: I'm having a fun idea for emulation station, if I create a custom login session that launches just emulation station, and then set my wallpaper to a funky "loading screen" - things would look way cooler.
[17:41] <directhex> you need framebuffer handover, so you get the same logo from kernel boot to app load!
[18:21] <daftykins> diddledan: there you are! i thought shauno had killed you and hidden the body
[18:21] <diddledan> :-p
[18:21] <diddledan> I'm in Wales
[18:21] <daftykins> on hols?
[18:22] <diddledan> sheeps eat the internets here
[18:22] <diddledan> yeah
[18:22] <daftykins> tasty packets
[18:30] <shauno> to be fair, wales probably isn't a bad spot to hide the body
[18:30] <daftykins> mmm, plenty of valleys to get lost in so i hear
[18:36] <penguin42> not shauno the sheep
[18:38] <daftykins> :O
[18:49] <zmoylan-pi> no no it's a modification of using pigeons for internet, white sheep for 0's black sheep for 1's...
[18:50] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Hmm, have you seen the RFC on ultra slow speed networking?
[18:51] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1217
[18:57] <zmoylan-pi> that might work better than sheep, my system keeps going to sleep tracking the sheep packets...
[19:05] <diddledan> the problem with sheep-0based communications is the sheeps keep jumping out of the field (cable)
[19:06] <penguin42> diddledan: Fortunately you can keep them in line with a data orientation guide
[19:06] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you should write that one up as an RFC
[19:07] <diddledan> sheep networking must be very power efficient though if it causes random sleeps
[19:08] <zmoylan-pi> that and it looks like the cloud with all those sheep streaming past
[19:09] <daftykins> wake on LAN could be a remote shock collar
[19:13] <penguin42> of course the whole thing could be implemented in an open mint sauce library
[19:13]  * daftykins gasps
[19:19] <zmoylan-pi> firewalls would become firefences...
[19:21] <zmoylan-pi> sysadmins would be shepherds...
[19:23]  * penguin42 didn't think shepherds were that drunk
[19:25] <daftykins> it would rule out users at last!
[19:25] <zmoylan-pi> shepherds aren't allowed to drink and drive either :-)
[20:12] <bigcalm> Caved in and pre-ordered http://www.game.co.uk/en/steam-link-with-steam-controller-and-20-steam-wallet-top-up-bundle-only-at-game-644059
[20:12] <daftykins> yay early adopting ;)
[20:13] <bigcalm> I have a long history of impulse buyings
[20:13] <bigcalm> 100 notes isn't my worst mistake to date
[20:13] <daftykins> :D
[20:13] <bigcalm> I'm wondering about the controller, but the link box will be useful
[20:14] <m0nkey_> i preordered the steam controller
[20:17] <bigcalm> Proved that I can connect Linux and Windows machines to my home server via openvpn. I'm going to throw it at the office network tomorrow. Only unknown is our remote workers with Macs
[20:18] <bigcalm> I assume that they will have no trouble connecting
[20:18] <bigcalm> Well, the technically minded one anyway
[20:18] <m0nkey_> bigcalm, you have Viscosity (paid) or Tunnelblick (free) for Mac
[20:18] <m0nkey_> Viscosity if your Mac users are casuals
[20:18] <daftykins> bigcalm: i have a Mavericks VM if you'd like a test run
[20:19] <bigcalm> daftykins: I would actually, thanks
[20:19] <intrbiz> bigcalm: openvpn works fine on Macs
[20:19] <bigcalm> Well, there's the proof needed
[20:19] <daftykins> hehe
[20:19] <bigcalm> What I need to work out is if I want to tunnel or bridge
[20:19] <intrbiz> bigcalm: IIRC its fairly easy to build tunnellbick config bundles
[20:20] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you want tunnel
[20:20] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I think I'll let Nicholas sort that out and then pass it to other Mac users ;)
[20:21] <bigcalm> intrbiz: Okay, tunnel is the default from the howto I followed
[20:21] <intrbiz> bigcalm: yes, bridge is only needed for certain niche usecases
[20:22] <bigcalm> intrbiz: other thing is, do I want to leave the IP allocation at <IP_ADDRESS>/24 or change it <IP_ADDRESS>/24 (what the office vlan will be on)?
[20:23] <bigcalm> intrbiz: have you tried either/both bits of the cable I swapped with you?
[20:23] <daftykins> i think you'd want to put VPN clients on their own subnet
[20:23] <bigcalm> intrbiz: and did I miss much after leaving the social on Friday?
[20:23] <intrbiz> bigcalm: VPN clients need to be on their own network, other wise you can't route them
[20:24] <intrbiz> bigcalm: didn't miss anything
[20:24] <bigcalm> daftykins: okay. Looks like I can push routes from the server side over to clients
[20:24] <daftykins> yeah they'd get routes on connection
[20:24] <daftykins> inherited routes i think they call it
[20:24] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you can also use CCD to add routes to the local machine should you wish to allow the office to access something on the otherside of a client
[20:25] <bigcalm> So requests to <IP_ADDRESS>/24 will be sent to <IP_ADDRESS>?
[20:25] <daftykins> if that's the gateway for that subnet ja
[20:25] <intrbiz> bigcalm: if <IP_ADDRESS> is the OpenVPN server, yes
[20:25] <bigcalm> intrbiz: yeah, I've been reading about that. Not sure what use case there will be for the office side to directly connect to clients
[20:26] <daftykins> well you need two-way awareness for most communication to work of course
[20:26] <daftykins> e.g. a host on the work side needs to know the VPN subnet is available via the OpenVPN server, to reach clients in order to respond to a ping test
[20:26] <blizzard> Hia, I'm experiencing an odd issue with my USB HDD - is this the right place to ask? It does seem to be an Ubuntu specific problem.
[20:27] <bigcalm> !ask | blizzard
[20:27] <daftykins> fire away, blizzard
[20:27] <intrbiz> daftykins: the default gateway of the hosts on the work network needs to know how to route traffic to the VPN, not the actual hosts
[20:27] <daftykins> yeah true
[20:27] <bigcalm> intrbiz: when I got the vpn working at home this morning, I almost drove to the office to set things up there
[20:28] <bigcalm> Thankfully I wasn't a fool to myself for a change
[20:28] <daftykins> :D
[20:29] <daftykins> i too have learnt that lesson the hard way
[20:29] <intrbiz> daftykins: :)
[20:29] <daftykins> intrbiz: just obviously it gets its' routes from said box
[20:29] <daftykins> i went to replace a CMOS battery the other day and ended up having to do a whole motherboard swap =|
[20:29] <bigcalm> Ouch
[20:29] <daftykins> swapped the battery over, machine would not POST again no matter what i did
[20:30] <bigcalm> Battery upside down?
[20:30] <daftykins> nah
[20:30] <intrbiz> daftykins: well id you do try to extract the battery with a sledgehammer.......
[20:30] <daftykins> prior to replacing it, if it lost mains it wasn't POSTing again unless i used the jumper
[20:31] <daftykins> to reset ofc
[20:31] <bigcalm> intrbiz: do either part of my console cable work with your switch?
[20:31] <daftykins> blizzard: so... what's up?
[20:32] <foobarry> hey guys
[20:32] <blizzard> Thanks, I have recently purchased a USB 3 hard drive. I have just over 200GB of data to transfer across so I tried plugging it into the USB 3 port on the back of my PC to find that I get a transfer speed of 1.8Mb/s. I also tried in a USB 2 port and got just over 30Mb/s which dropped by about 0.5Mb/s every second until it reached 1.8Mb/s again. The drive is formatted using NFTS as I need to be able to access these files on a Windows PC
[20:32] <blizzard> later.
[20:32] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I blogged my numpty guide to getting the switch working: http://www.myrant.net/2015/06/06/basic-set-up-of-a-3com-4500-managed-network-switch/
[20:32] <foobarry> found a new twitter app today..is great
[20:32] <foobarry> no ads or junk
[20:32] <foobarry> lots of features
[20:32] <foobarry> its called twidere
[20:32] <foobarry> (android)
[20:33] <daftykins> blizzard: what's the target data? testing a single large file would be the best speed test
[20:33] <bigcalm> blizzard: I'm not saying that it isn't, but what makes you say that it's an Ubuntu specific issue?
[20:34] <bigcalm> blizzard: also, what's the read speed of the source drive?
[20:34] <blizzard> daftykins: I tried using a single 100GB file to test and encountered the same problem.
[20:34] <daftykins> also those units are megabits per second which isn't the correct choice for a disk transfer
[20:36] <daftykins> blizzard: which OS created the NTFS volume?
[20:36] <daftykins> does a Windows system function better with this same drive?
[20:38] <blizzard> The drive was formatted in Windows and has the advertised speeds on a Windows machine.
[20:38] <daftykins> ok mix it up by trying some other file systems and cluster sizes
[20:38] <intrbiz> bigcalm: cool
[20:38] <daftykins> exFAT would also be a good choice for a disk being shared between OSs
[20:39] <blizzard> daftykins: I'll give exFAT a go - I shall report back ^^
[20:44] <intrbiz> bigcalm: FYI I get no luck with that USB-Serial adapter
[20:44] <blizzard> Ok, so "sudo mkfs.exfat /dev/sda1" fails with "sudo: mkfs.exfat: command not found"
[20:45] <bigcalm> intrbiz: either part?
[20:45] <intrbiz> bigcalm: tried the USB-Serial adapter with the 3com cable, no joy
[20:45] <bigcalm> Poo
[20:46] <intrbiz> bigcalm: the adapter isn't even detected on my chromebook, I get no data on my desktop
[20:46] <bigcalm> Weird
[20:46] <bigcalm> It was on my workstation and laptop
[20:47] <bigcalm> I have the switch set-up to accept SSH and web now. So can bring your cables back to you tomorrow
[20:47] <intrbiz> I'll bring it along tomorrow and you can see if you get any luck with it + the cable you have
[20:47] <daftykins> blizzard: make it from Windows
[20:47] <bigcalm> Oh, okay, thanks
[20:48] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I'm also fairly certain that the older 3coms use a different RJ45 pinout to Cisco (and I think the new 3com / HP kit) :(
[20:48] <bigcalm> blizzard: do you have `exfat-utils` installed?
[20:48] <bigcalm> intrbiz: so that cable might work with a modern 3com/HP switch?
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: possibly, it'll work with a cisco switch
[20:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: should you ever need to
[20:49] <bigcalm> Right
[20:50] <blizzard> bigcalm: I thought I did but obviously not - I've returned to Ubuntu after a long time with Windows so I'm still getting used to things again
[20:50] <bigcalm> Welcome back :)
[20:51] <blizzard> bigcalm: Thanks! :) The drive is now formatted and I'm going to give the copy another try
[20:51] <bigcalm> blizzard: good luck
[20:52] <daftykins> i still think it's a mistake creating exFAT on that side when wanting to mix usage, but ah well we'll see
[20:54] <blizzard> The speed started great! ~100MB/s Now it's dropped very fast to <10MB/s :(
[20:54] <daftykins> if there are multiple ports for USB 3, try another
[20:54] <blizzard> This is with the 100GB test file
[20:54] <daftykins> also disable any bluetooth you might have, as apparently they interfere
[20:55] <blizzard> daftykins: I don't have bluetooth - I'll try the other port ^^
[20:56] <blizzard> I'm having the same problem on the other port :/
[20:57] <daftykins> what's the USB controller in this machine? i noticed a bit ago that true intel chipset USB 3 gets far better speeds than the Fresco Logic / Renesas controller in my Asus
[20:58] <blizzard> It's a VIA Chipset - how would I find out the model number?
[20:59] <intrbiz> got a renesas uPD720202 controller in this box, get no issue hitting decent speeds with my USB3 HDD
[20:59] <intrbiz> blizzard: lspci -v or lscpi -vv
[21:00] <daftykins> yes but shockingly enough chips are implemented in different ways (:
[21:00] <Sebsebsebb> Hi
[21:01] <daftykins> evening
[21:01]  * bigcalm breaks the warranty seal on this 2006 network switch
[21:03] <Sebsebsebb> If you but a computer from us and put Linux on it, you will probably break the warranty depending on manufacturer. Yes I have had that kind of chat today with people from a company, and I am thinking if I should even care about the warranty or not really
[21:03] <blizzard> Here is the result from lspci -vv - I can't make head nor tail of this :( http://pastebin.com/tzfnduAW
[21:03] <Sebsebsebb> Buy a above
[21:03] <intrbiz> gets 90MiB/s off USB3 HDD
[21:05] <bigcalm> I can't decide if there is more or less gubbins inside this network switch than I expected
[21:05] <Sebsebsebb> I guess warranty is useless anyway unless up for sending off somewhere if breaks enough
[21:09] <intrbiz> Sebsebsebb: not uncommon to remove HDD when sending off for repair
[21:09] <Sebsebsebb> Yeah some do trucks
[21:10] <Sebsebsebb> Like putting the defsultb windows hard dusk back in
[21:10] <Azelphur> Can anyone who's a bit more wizard than me confirm that when you're writing a wrapper shell script that passes all arguments to another program, you'd use "$@" and not $@ ? (like this https://github.com/Azelphur/pcsx2/blob/master/bin/PCSX2-linux.sh#L73 )
[21:10] <Sebsebsebb> Tricks above
[21:10] <Azelphur> And if there would be any unforseen consequences in changing $@ to "$@"
[21:11] <intrbiz> Azelphur: "$@" will essentially "" quote each element of $@
[21:11] <Azelphur> I see, interesting
[21:11] <intrbiz> Azelphur: you'd use "$@" in  a wrapper script, to avoice spaces in arguments breaking what you invoke
[21:12] <intrbiz> s/avoice/avoid/
[21:12] <Azelphur> yup, good I'm getting it right then :)
[21:12] <Sebsebsebb> A seller I been in contact with today someone from that suggested I contacted manufacture about Linux and warranty, but I guess not much point really
[21:12] <daftykins> Sebsebsebb: why did you need to get in touch about warranty? what happened?
[21:13] <Sebsebsebb> Nothing just decideing on what lap tois to buy soo
[21:13] <blizzard> Is it possible the drive write speed is actually really slow and the high speeds I see are just some kind of buffer?
[21:14] <daftykins> well all disks have cache
[21:14] <Sebsebsebb> Although it seems with ho your indeed on your own when got Linux on there
[21:15] <Sebsebsebb> probably for others like acer and asus to
[21:15] <Sebsebsebb> Hp above
[21:16] <Sebsebsebb> They all just support  Windows really, even the ones who pretend to like Linux or well to some extent such as HP and Dell
[21:17] <intrbiz> blizzard: how fast is the driver under windows?
[21:18] <blizzard> intrbiz: Around 100MB/s
[21:19] <intrbiz> blizzard: sustained
[21:20] <Sebsebsebb> So is uefu pretty much a non issue now with most distros? Dual booting with windows or multi booting with windows and a few distros even?
[21:20] <Sebsebsebb> U EFI
[21:21] <blizzard> intrbiz: It's usually between 80MB/s and 100MB/s
[21:21] <Azelphur> This is why I love open source stuff, people say nobody ever goes into the code. Started using PCSX2 less than 2 hours ago and my patch is already in master
[21:22] <blizzard> Trying to mount the source HDD and getting this error now http://pastebin.com/mqQ0fGqn
[21:22] <daftykins> Sebsebsebb: it's been easy for ages yeah, but you need to have some knowledge in mind to make it easy
[21:22] <intrbiz> blizzard: ok, that would suggest the drive is fine, and the issues are Linux driver related
[21:23] <blizzard> intrbiz: ok, is there any fix? I heard something about mounting the drive async but I have no idea how or what it really means
[21:24] <Sebsebsebb> daftykins Even after reading this blog post about it from Mageia's blog
[21:24] <Sebsebsebb> I am hmmm about it
[21:24] <daftykins> *cough* we were at that understanding earlier, intrbiz ;)
[21:24] <intrbiz> blizzard: are you copying NTFS to USB HDD from linux?
[21:24] <Sebsebsebb> Since not got any experience with UEFI
[21:24] <daftykins> Sebsebsebb: what about the actual EFI factoid link?
[21:24] <daftykins> !efi
[21:25] <daftykins> it is very simple to boot windows 8, resize your C: from inside Windows to make space for ubuntu, boot ubuntu from flash drive - then install beside
[21:25] <blizzard> intrbiz: Yeah, the source drive is NTFS
[21:25] <intrbiz> Sebsebsebb: it's irrelevant what yours, mine, or most other peoples thoughts on EFI are, its a reality
[21:26] <daftykins> i thought you just redid it to exFAT? :>
[21:26] <blizzard> daftykins: the external drive is exFAT, the internal drive is NTFS#
[21:27] <daftykins> ah that kind of source drive
[21:27] <intrbiz> blizzard: have you tested how fast it is to copy the NTFS source drive to something else?
[21:27] <Sebsebsebb> Intrbiz yeah but I am in the verge have having two new computers sent to me, one is for someone else, but yes the idea is to dual boy them at learnt windows and Linux
[21:28] <blizzard> intrbiz: I'll give that a go now
[21:28] <Sebsebsebb> Might even try multi booting with more than one disttro on mine if u EFI doesn't cause to ,many problems
[21:30] <Sebsebsebb> So things need to work and then :)
[21:31] <blizzard> intrbiz: You may be on to something! From one internal NTFS drive to another, the speed was a blistering 1MB/s
[21:34] <intrbiz> blizzard: righty, NTFS-3G does have some known performance problems, but 1MB/s seems rather slow
[21:34] <intrbiz> blizzard: are you able to copy what you want from Windows?
[21:36] <bigcalm> Time to fix a large G&T for the returning wife
[21:37] <blizzard> I can copy the stuff from Windows but I'm stuck with 20MB/s because Windows has stopped recognising the USB3 chipset completely
[21:37] <daftykins> o0
[21:37] <intrbiz> blizzard: ah, not having much luck
[21:37] <daftykins> it... has? in what way? flagged up in device manager with issues?
[21:38] <blizzard> It doesn't even show up in device manager
[21:41] <daftykins> laptop?
[21:41] <daftykins> time to pull the mains and battery
[21:41] <blizzard> I'm on a desktop
[21:42] <daftykins> mains pull is always good to reset USB controllers
[21:43] <blizzard> Shut down first or just kill it?
[21:43] <daftykins> yeah safe shutdown
[21:44] <blizzard> I'll be back shortly - I'll just see if it fixes anything
[22:08] <intrbiz> ah, lights out cards allow one to be so lazy
[22:24] <bigcalm> intrbiz:  Finally sorted out the routing that I wanted: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11634762/
[22:24] <bigcalm> I'm even connecting to my irssi proxy via the tunnel rather than internal network :)
[22:32] <intrbiz> bigcalm: cool :)
[22:35] <intrbiz> bigcalm: out of interest what is the value of 'server' in your openvpn server config?
[22:35] <intrbiz> bigcalm: are you using tls-auth on your openvpn server?
[22:36] <bigcalm> I don't think that I changed the default config for server
[22:36] <bigcalm> server <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS>
[22:37] <bigcalm> So I did change the default, just couldn't remember the settings :)
[22:45] <intrbiz> bigcalm: you might want to add 'topology                subnet' to your server cfg, reccomened for new installs
[22:46] <bigcalm> What does that do?
[22:46] <blizzard> Hia, I have returned with a fully working USB 3 chipset - thanks for the tip!
[22:47] <daftykins> blizzard: power pull worked huh?
[22:47] <daftykins> \o/
[22:47] <daftykins> cheapest fix
[22:50] <blizzard> daftykins: Yup! I have now copied everything across - Strangely enough, when I was shutting down, the system hung telling me that lsusb was delaying shutdown or something so I ended up hitting the reset switch anyway :P
[22:51] <intrbiz> bigcalm: it uses a normal subnet topology rather than putting each client in a /30 subnet
[23:23] <bigcalm> Ah, okay. I'll look at that tomorrow
[23:23] <bigcalm> Thanks
[23:23] <daftykins> www.twitch.tv/daftpunkle
[23:23] <daftykins> Dying Light xbox one intro
[23:26] <directhex> i should have played splatoon this evening.


[06:24] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:28] <DenBeiren> mornin
[10:57] <CappyT> Hi everyone! As apparently on superuser is not allowed to ask for SW recommendations, I am asking here
[10:58] <CappyT> I have a lot of hosts on vmware using ubuntu server, going for updates on all of them is a pain.. what do you guys use for monitoring and deploying ubuntu server updates?
[10:58] <CappyT> something with alerts on my graphana panel would be a huge thing, but i can't find anything like that
[11:00] <blackflow> saltstack or ansible (or puppet or chef or ...). there's also Canonical's Landscape which has that functionality (in fact it has one-click button for upgrading of all the systems)
[11:00] <vassie> Personally I'd recommend Ansible for deploying updates
[11:01] <vassie> I also like Icinga 2 for monitoring, the APT check is useful for showing you what outstanding critical patches you may have in your environment
[11:03] <blackflow> and apticron can mail you that info
[11:06] <CappyT> wow, that's awesome
[11:06] <CappyT> i dig into this solutions asap
[11:07] <CappyT> just another question: there's any tool to get all log (like a syslog server) and visualize them/search them easily?
[11:07] <blackflow> syslog and grep :)
[11:07] <blackflow> I'd recommend syslog-ng, it can do remoting over TLS and is way more versatile in configuration.
[11:16] <CappyT> @blackflow no fancy and flashy web-ui?
[11:17] <CappyT> because the scope here is to aggregate all the logs in a single central point (of failure, lol) to browser them easily, without remoting into each host
[11:19] <blackflow> I'd google for Landscape's ability to centralize journald entries but.... given the stupid name, google is giving me gardening advice instead. So, try that somehow.
[11:20] <CappyT> well, i guess gardening is important
[11:20] <blackflow> otherwise, I prefer grep and command line tools over flashy UIs. Much more versatile to deal with. One file per host, and separate file per severtity for errors (incl. emerg and crit), and warnings.
[11:20] <CappyT> I'd consider that approach
[11:21] <blackflow> *severity
[11:22] <waveform> landscape doesn't provide any facilities for journal/syslog entries
[11:28] <vassie> CappyT: Elasticsearch is worth a look
[11:30] <vassie> CappyT: https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elastic-stack-get-started/6.4/get-started-elastic-stack.html
[11:31] <vassie> CappyT: or checkout Graylog
[12:03] <ahasenack> good morning
[12:17] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: {1..8192} doesn't expand in dash
[12:29] <cpaelzer> boo
[12:29] <cpaelzer> something else will make it a loop
[12:30] <blackflow> for x in $(seq 1 8192); do echo $x ; done
[12:32] <ahasenack> blackflow: we are trying to optimize this: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/JJCH2yd3tf/
[12:33] <ahasenack> I wonder how far we can get :)
[12:34] <ahasenack> I don't want zeroed big files, but I also don't need rich random data. And I don't want to exhaust the entropy pool. urandom seems fine, but...
[12:34] <blackflow> maybe a crypto subsystem could be of use somehow
[12:34] <ahasenack> no
[12:35] <ahasenack> originally I was just copying data from /usr/bin
[12:35] <ahasenack> I just need some data, this is to test a backup system
[12:35] <blackflow> eg, fastest way to randomize a hdd in preparation for FDE, is echoing zeroes into luks container. (u)random is very slow
[12:35] <ahasenack> random can block, urandom not
[12:35] <ahasenack> in linux, at least
[12:36] <blackflow> yes. urandom is still slow
[12:36] <ahasenack> it's fast enough
[12:36] <ahasenack> a loop with 8k iterations is slow
[12:37] <blackflow> what's the actual problem? I doubt 10 x 5MB tmp files is what you need?
[12:37] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: I could use printf 'HelloWorld we Test BackupPC and need some reliable reproducible lines to back up later - this is - line %d\n' $(seq 1 8192) > /tmp/foob; ls -laFh /tmp/foob
[12:38] <cpaelzer> fair enough for me
[12:39] <ahasenack> except I don't want identical files
[12:39]  * ahasenack adds $$
[13:30] <tobias-urdin> coreycb: octavia-api from uca/rocky doesn't start, octavia-api: error: unrecognized arguments: --http-socket [::]:9876 --ini /etc/octavia/octavia-api-uwsgi.ini
[13:30] <tobias-urdin> seems like its the uwsgi options from debian right? just emptying DAEMON_ARGS in /etc/init.d/octavia-api solves it
[13:34] <coreycb> tobias-urdin: ok I'll take a look shortly. probably yes as it originated in debian.
[14:49] <coreycb> tobias-urdin: it seems this can be fixed by dropping UWSGI_PORT=9876 from /etc/init.d/octavia-api and setting http-socket  = [::]:9876 in /etc/octavia/octavia-api-uwsgi.ini
[14:50] <coreycb> tobias-urdin: i'd like to switch it to apache but at this point i don't think we can for rocky. maybe in stein.
[15:25] <rbasak> ahasenack, cpaelzer: so I'm going to have a series of git-ubuntu MPs going up (already started), if you don't mind reviewing them please.
[15:26] <ahasenack> rbasak: will do
[16:13] <cpaelzer> rbasak: all MPs already gone?
[16:14] <cpaelzer> maybe ahasenack did all the work already, it is not in my overview or inbox
[16:14] <RoyK> MPs?
[16:14] <cpaelzer> he said there are a few merge proposals incoming about an hour ago
[16:14] <RoyK> ok
[16:18] <rbasak> cpaelzer: https://code.launchpad.net/~racb/usd-importer/+git/usd-importer/+merge/357278
[16:19]  * rbasak wonders if he should be subscribing ~canonical-server to these for overview purposes
[16:19] <rbasak> I guess so
[16:34] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: the test result looks ugly with all those numbers in the set -x output: https://bileto.ubuntu.com/excuses/3487/xenial.html
[16:44] <plm> Hi all
[16:46] <TJ-> plm: Hiya. I'm beginning to think the amount of engineering to deliver our aim is too much for the benefit or number of users!
[16:51] <RoyK> what aim?
[17:05] <blackflow> que?!
[17:24] <rbasak> smoser: around? I just realised CalledProcessError isn't enough in your MP. Since shell=False, we get a FileNotFoundError if lsb_release doesn't exist.
[17:24] <rbasak> Apart from that, +1 to merge. So shall I add a commit to your branch and merge, or do you want to rebase, or what? Not sure what you'd prefer workflow-wise, and I don't have a workflow for this kind of thing in git-ubuntu yet :-/
[17:25] <rbasak> So I think just "except CalledProcessError" -> "except (CalledProcessError, FileNotFoundError)"?
[17:26] <rbasak> For eatmydata too
[17:39] <smoser> rbasak: i knew that called processerror wasnt enough
[17:39] <smoser> but the filenotfounderror should only occur in rare cases
[17:40] <rbasak> smoser: I thought you explicitly were handling the case where lsb_release doesn't exist?
[17:41] <rbasak> smoser: if not then that's fine
[17:41] <smoser> rbasak: well, i dont think you'd get a filenotfounderror
[17:41] <rbasak> A rare case uncaught exception is fine IMHO - we can always add another specific exception handler in response to a report.
[17:41] <smoser> on lsb_release doesnt exist
[17:41] <rbasak> I tried it and got one
[17:41] <smoser> hm.
[17:41] <rbasak> (well really I tried to run "foo")
[17:42] <smoser> you tried '_run_in_lsd(container, "foo")'
[17:42] <rbasak> No
[17:42] <smoser> right
[17:42] <rbasak> But doesn't that use lxc exec in the end?
[17:42] <smoser> so _run_in_lxd is going to execute 'lxc'
[17:42] <rbasak> Oh
[17:42] <rbasak> OK, fine :)
[17:42] <smoser> which is going to be there
[17:42] <rbasak> I'll merge
[17:42] <rbasak> Sorry I didn't realise that case.
[17:42] <smoser> its not perfect, i agree
[17:43] <rbasak> Sure
[17:43] <smoser> i have a plan to shove a 'helper' script into the image to execute
[17:43] <smoser> that would handle the sudo and --set-home and change_dir stuff
[17:43] <smoser> so that the caller would do something like
[17:43] <rbasak> I don't need it to be perfect. I do object to a catch-all exception handler, but I thought your fix didn't work in a common case, but I was wrong.
[17:43] <rbasak> So the fix is fine.
[17:44] <smoser>  _run_in_lxd(container, ['some', 'command'], user="bob", cd="build-dir")
[17:45] <smoser> and _run_in_lxd(container, ['helper', 'wait-for-boot'])
[17:48] <rbasak> smoser: depends on how complex the helper is IMHO. With your current implementation of wait_for_container_boot, I'm not sure it's worth it.
[17:49] <rbasak> Because then you have extra state in the container.
[17:54] <rbasak> smoser: merged. Thank you for the fixes/improvements. I currently manually upload to edge after the nightly build, so this might not be in edge until next week.
[17:54] <RoyK> _run_in_lsd() must be fun - Lucy in the sky with diomonds?
[17:55] <rbasak> lxd is like a drug. Start using it and you'll never stop :)
[17:58] <teward> rbasak: damn right :|
[17:58] <teward> (I'm addicted to it for containers lol)
[17:59] <smoser> https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/uss-tableflip/blob/master/scripts/ctool
[17:59] <smoser> check out 'ctool'
[17:59] <smoser> usage like:
[18:00] <smoser>   ctool run-container -v --destroy ubuntu-daily:bionic --git=some-giturl/myproject tox
[18:06] <sarnold> hehe, I got to wondering the other day how well libvirt or qemu could work within lxd..
[18:09] <smoser> it can work.
[18:09] <smoser> it needs some non-default permissions
[18:09] <smoser> but i think there is even a profile shipped
[18:12] <sarnold> I wanted to NIH my own libvirt-ish thing with usernamespaces, bridging, etc., to make it easier for "users" on a system to have nice VMs but not have root prompts, hehe
[18:12] <sarnold> lxd is quite a bit ibgger than that but has already solved loads of the same problems
[18:19] <smoser> sarnold: only mentioning because its in that area... multipass from the snap store
[18:19] <smoser> is confined libvirt and such
[18:20] <sdeziel> ctool is beautifully written
[18:20] <smoser> thanks!
[18:20] <sarnold> smoser: thanks :)
[18:34] <smoser> rbasak: i think i might have broken 'tox'
[18:34] <smoser> based on distro_info usage
[18:37] <rbasak> smoser: your MP passed CI though?
[18:38] <smoser> did it?
[18:38] <smoser> i just ran tox locally and saw it fail. maybe my tox env out of date though.
[19:22] <rbasak> It did
[19:22] <rbasak> We might not be running tox.
[19:31] <plm> TJ-: Sorry for the delay.
[19:32] <plm> TJ-: that is a bad news :(
[19:32] <plm> TJ-: But not problem. ANyway, is possible just to help me to do that ubuntu 16.4 qemu image capable to boot in normal qemu VM?
[19:51] <kur1j> I'm having a weird problem with NFS on ubuntu 16.04. If I do "mount <IP_ADDRESS>:/data /mnt/data" the NFS mounts without issue, if I try to do it based on the hostname it doesn't work, "mount dataserver.example.com:/data /mnt/data" it just hangs. I can properly ping dataserver.example.com and it resolves the ip correctly.
[19:53] <sdeziel> kur1j: maybe it's trying IPv6 when using the name?
[19:53] <kur1j> sdeziel: anyway to check that?
[19:54] <kur1j> i don't have any ipv6 stuff setup
[19:54] <sdeziel> kur1j: what you could do is add "<IP_ADDRESS> dataserver.example.com" to /etc/hosts, a bit of a hack but should work
[19:55] <sarnold> if it works at least it gives you a solid shot at figuring out *why* the other approach doesn't work
[19:55] <sarnold> maybe throw tshark or something at the problem
[19:55] <kur1j> sdeziel: interesting that does work
[19:56] <sarnold> sdeziel: nice :) he
[19:56] <pragmaticenigma> kur1j: Is your DNS server running on the same machine as the NFS client?
[19:56] <kur1j> pragmaticenigma: it is not
[19:56] <kur1j> sarnold: not sure what that tells me though because i can dig and ping to the dataserver.example.com and it resolves properly without changing the hosts file
[19:56] <pragmaticenigma> kur1j: is dnsmasq installed on either of the machines (the working NFS client, the broken NFS client)
[19:57] <pragmaticenigma> err... kur1j these are ubuntu 16.04 machines?
[19:57] <kur1j> pragmaticenigma: they are
[19:58] <kur1j> pragmaticenigma: they are both 16.04 machines. looking for dnsmasq
[19:58] <pragmaticenigma> check and see if anyways... 18.04 installs dnsmasq for local dns caching... I don't recall if 16.04 did it as well
[19:59] <kur1j> how do I know if dnsmasq is running?
[19:59] <pragmaticenigma> we can check that in a moment, at the moment it's presense and you not having explicately installing it means it is likely running
[20:01] <sdeziel> on 18.04, I though that it was systemd-resolved all around
[20:01] <pragmaticenigma> another way to tell if you are using a local cache is the dig command or nslookup will have a local IP address
[20:02] <sdeziel> kur1j: grep nameserver /etc/resolv.conf
[20:02] <kur1j> sdeziel: ubuntu 16.04 uses NetworkManager
[20:02] <kur1j> so it points back to <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:02] <kur1j> nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>
[20:03] <kur1j> but I added my DNS server to NetworkManager and the search domain
[20:03] <sdeziel> kur1j: OK so that looks like dnsmasq indeed on a desktop :)
[20:04] <sdeziel> kur1j: I'd fire a "tcpdump -ni any port 53 &" then run the mount via hostname (without /etc/hosts alias) and see what comes up in tcpdump
[20:08] <TJ-> kur1j: did you change the N.M. connection IPv4 Method to "Automatic (Addresses Only)" too?
[20:10] <kur1j> TJ-: I didn't change any defaults besides adding my freeIPA dns server IP and the domain name search
[20:10] <TJ-> kur1j: without that ^^ the DHCP DNS settings will take preference
[20:12] <kur1j> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xFbJ3DGCMx/
[20:12] <kur1j> thats the tcpdump
[20:12] <kur1j> <IP_ADDRESS> is the local client with issues
[20:13] <kur1j> <IP_ADDRESS> is my dns server
[20:13] <kur1j> TJ-: which option is that?
[20:16] <kur1j> TJ-: nvm I see
[20:16] <TJ-> kur1j: add "ignore-auto-dns=true" to the system connection in the "ipv4" section
[20:17] <kur1j> TJ-: ill try that. I got a feeling going to kill my connection haha
[20:18] <coreycb> tobias-urdin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1798891
[20:18] <TJ-> kur1j: with method=auto it allows your own "dns=..." to be used in preference
[20:19] <kur1j> TJ-: well I have my DNS in there as well its DNS3
[20:25] <kur1j> do people not like NM?>
[20:28] <sdeziel> kur1j: you do get the reply for the A RR and nothing for AAAA which looks fine. Could you share the unaltered mount command/line from fstab?
[20:28] <kur1j> sdeziel: I'm not doing it in fstab (yet)
[20:28] <kur1j> what I sent was it (other than the domain name)
[20:29] <sdeziel> kur1j: anything spacial in dmesg/journalctl -fk ?
[20:30] <sdeziel> kur1j: if you provided the FQDN, it would do DNS straight away so I don't know what it could be, sorry
[20:31] <kur1j> sdeziel: don't see anything in dmesg or journalctl -fk
[20:37] <kur1j> TJ-: same issue
[20:38] <sdeziel> kur1j: gotta run but good luck!
[20:38] <kur1j> thanks!
[20:38] <kur1j> appreciate the help
[20:38] <sdeziel> yw
[20:39] <TJ-> kur1j: I suspect your issue could be the reverse-DNS lookup is failing
[20:40] <kur1j> TJ-: why is that? its resolving with dig
[20:43] <TJ-> kur1j: no, the forward lookup is resolving (name > ip address) but then it does a reverse-lookup (ip address > name) to ensure it matches. Your network isn't set up with an in-addr.arpa zone for the 172.16 subnet
[20:43] <kur1j> the dns server resolves my ip address as well though
[20:44] <kur1j> TJ-: how would I set that up?
[20:46] <TJ-> kur1j: does "dig -x <IP_ADDRESS>" report the name
[20:48] <kur1j> TJ-: I guess no I don't see anything about the name
[20:49] <TJ-> kur1j: have you checked the server's NFS logs? it may be the server that is not resolving the client
[20:55] <kur1j> TJ-: I can ping the client from the NFS server without issues
[20:56] <kur1j> I don't see anything in the NFS server logs saying anything about connection fails
[21:00] <TJ-> kur1j: ping by client name?
[21:00] <kur1j> TJ-: yup FQDN and by just the hostname
[21:00] <TJ-> kur1j: ok, so it must be client side having the issue
[21:00] <kur1j> both return the same ip address as I would expect when I run ifconfig on the client
[21:01] <TJ-> kur1j: how about a reverse dns lookup on the server, of the client? "dig -x client.name"
[21:01] <TJ-> kur1j: generally NFSv4 requires reverse-DNS, so you will need an <IP_ADDRESS>.in-addr.arpa zone in DNS
[21:03] <kur1j> dig -x <client IP> and dig -x <client domain name> both return something
[21:04] <kur1j> not sure how to tell if its actually working properly or not
[21:04] <kur1j> kind of out of my element with this DNS stuff
[21:04] <TJ-> -x should return the hostname of the address
[21:06] <kur1j> TJ-: in which section?
[21:06] <RoyK> kur1j: or just "host <ip>"
[21:06] <TJ-> kur1j: e.g. my domain "iam.tj" with "dig -x $(dig +short iam.tj)" reports "<IP_ADDRESS>.in-addr.arpa. 0  IN      PTR     iam.tj."
[21:06] <kur1j> host <IP_ADDRESS> Host <IP_ADDRESS>.in-addr.arpa. not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
[21:07] <TJ-> kur1j: right, it can't resolve back to the name because the in-addr.arpa zone is not configured
[21:07] <kur1j> hmm okay
[21:09] <kur1j> well hmm so that might be the problem I guess
[21:14] <kur1j> I'm ultimately trying to get my damn freeipa automount working
[21:14] <kur1j> but its being a little pita
[21:15] <kur1j> and I thought this might be the problem
[21:30] <TJ-> if you're running freeIPA you should have already configured reverse-DNS as part of that for 389-ds purposes


[00:27] <Rabid_Raven> anybody know how to set up grub (or whatever else) to make my msi gt72 actually wake from sleep in linux?
[00:27] <Rabid_Raven> I'm tired of getting a black screen and being forced to shut it down
[00:28] <valorie> Rabid_Raven: you can ask in #ubuntu if there is no answer here
[00:28] <valorie> much larger chan
[00:28] <valorie> I don't think grub handles waking from sleep
[00:29] <valorie> I believe that's a systemd function
[00:29] <valorie> dunno though - I never sleep this machine
[00:35] <Rabid_Raven> alright, thanks for the help
[03:11] <quiterion> howdy yall
[03:11] <quiterion> coming at ya from hannah montana linux
[06:09] <gcpu> hola
[06:10] <gcpu> soy de chihuahua mexico
[11:50] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[21:10] <oerheks> ah, the reason to ignore IrcsomeBot
 @RikMills
[21:14] <bprompt> hehehh
[21:15] <bprompt> oerheks you mean you're not investing on that  💰 💰 💰 💰? ohh man, your loss =)
[22:34] <kiwi77> test
 Test successful


[23:50] <czajkowski> nice line up for FOSDEM this year, a whole day on community dev and marketing:o
[23:50] <czajkowski> https://plus.google.com/102921374554385564572/posts/CcpmPerT88B
[23:50] <czajkowski> Legal issues was very good last year, first time they ran it and also ran out of space
[23:54] <popey> we're sending people to talk about unity


[01:36] <ubotu> New bug: #193111 in xserver-xorg-video-unichrome (universe) "Unsupported VT3371" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193111
[08:18] <Q-FUNK> guys, are we including the CPUID patch from bug #180742 for Hardy?
[08:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180742 in xorg-server "xf86-video-amd: switching to a vcons fails" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/180742
[08:19] <Q-FUNK> it's the last of 3 x86emu patches needed to bring x86emu back into line.
[08:40] <ubotu> New bug: #193192 in xorg (main) "DPMS is broken" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193192
[08:43] <tjaalton> Q-FUNK: I'll add it today
[08:44]  * tjaalton drops eyes to the floor... ati 6.8.0 released
[08:44] <tjaalton> sheesh
[08:46] <Q-FUNK> thanks!
[08:46] <Q-FUNK> hehe
[08:51] <bryce> heya
[08:52] <Q-FUNK> hey :)
[08:53] <tjaalton> bryce: I guess we want the new ati in hardy?-) Unstable already has it, I'm looking at the merge or sync
[08:55] <bryce> tjaalton: yeah probably, but we should review the changelog to get a sense of the proportion of new features to bug fixes
[08:55] <bryce> and also testing results of course...  if there's a lot of confirmed bug fixes, we definitely want it
[08:56] <tjaalton> it's a stable release, we have a six weeks old snapshot.. :)
[08:56] <tjaalton> sorry, eight weeks
[08:56] <bryce> yes quite true
[09:06] <ubotu> New bug: #193198 in xorg (main) "Screen errors in ATI Mobility Radeon X700 in Hardy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193198
[09:08] <tjaalton> we should be able to sync it
[09:09] <tjaalton> the only patch is from upstream
[09:09] <bryce> ok
[09:10] <tjaalton> Ng: upstream want's you to try git master to fix the graphics bugs with 855
[09:10] <tjaalton> -'
[09:12] <tjaalton> well, the last commit on the stable branch
[09:12] <tjaalton> http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel.git;a=commitdiff_plain;h=aa1813e4807e500fb122f36af988cf60f91e05a5;hp=1cea254b70158600d9dfff8ba66fb2ec0a6e0f67
[09:17] <Ng> tjaalton: can I build that independently of xorg*
[09:17] <Ng> +?
[09:18] <bryce> Ng, yup
[09:18]  * Ng installs git
[09:18] <Ng> is it just git co http://thaturl     ?
[09:18] <tjaalton> just wget that patch and apply it on the packages
[09:18] <tjaalton> -s
[09:19] <tjaalton> or build the git version
[09:19] <tjaalton> and copy the drv.so
[09:19] <Ng> aha
[09:20] <ubotu> New bug: #149479 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "Graphic set-up is problematic" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149479
[09:20] <mvo> tjaalton: I would like to talk to you about the fglrx issue when they drop support for cards (you filed a update-manager bug about it). do we have a list of pci ids available of the cards that are supported or where support got dropped?
[09:22] <Ng> hmm, don't spose anyone still has a copy of xserver-xorg-video-intel 2.2.0+git20080107-1ubuntu2 lying around, do they? if this doesn't work I'd like to be able to revert back to the working driver ;)
[09:24] <bryce> Ng, the (probably crude) approach I've taken when working with git drivers, when done is to do apt-get remove <driver>; apt-get install <driver>.
[09:24] <bryce> there's probably a cleaner solution tho
[09:24] <tjaalton> mvo: hmm, what bug #?
[09:25] <bryce> I believe you can do apt-get install <driver>=<version> or something to force it to a particular version
[09:26] <Ng> bryce: sure, but aiui, older packages get purged from the archive, so apt won't be able to find it
[09:27] <saispo> hi
[09:27] <bryce> Ng, ahh, yes that's true
[09:27] <bryce> saispo: heya!
[09:27] <mvo> tjaalton: #110388 you reassigned this one to update-manager on saturday
[09:27] <saispo> :)
[09:28] <saispo> little question: anyone know how can i do not invoke xorg postinst in gutsy installer ? because it build a xorg.conf automatically and i don't want it :)
[09:30] <bryce> saispo: there isn't a way to suppress the initial generation of it, however you should be able to delete it at any point during install by switching to a terminal console and deleting it.  (Perhaps I misunderstand what you need tho.)
[09:30] <tjaalton> mvo: oh that one
[09:30] <saispo> bryce: yes, i see no other solution :|
[09:31] <saispo> bryce: you see right ;)
[09:31] <saispo> bryce: i will use a d-i command for doing this
[09:31] <bryce> saispo: if you have X trouble during installation, another workaround is to use the alternate install CD, which does a text-mode install
[09:31] <saispo> thanks
[09:31] <bryce> sure
[09:31] <saispo> bryce: i use this, but it's for a custom distro
[09:31] <saispo> bryce: with feisty i have no trouble
[09:31] <tjaalton> mvo: lrm includes the modules.alias.override -files which could be used
[09:31] <bryce> ah
[09:33] <Q-FUNK> seb128: could you tell me what was the name of the gnome componet that draws the bacground image?
[09:33] <tjaalton> nautilus?
[09:33] <seb128> Q-FUNK: depends, gnome-control-center or nautilus
[09:33] <seb128> what is the issue?
[09:34] <tjaalton> bryce: do I file the sync request for ati?
[09:34] <bryce> tjaalton: sure go for it
[09:34] <tjaalton> ok cool
[09:34] <Q-FUNK> seb128:  zoom image behavior changed. it used to center and zoom, now it left-aligns and zooms
[09:35] <Q-FUNK> seb128: in hardy
[09:36] <seb128> not sure, you can open it on gnome-control-center if you want, attach an example to the bug maybe, I don't notice the issue on my installation
[09:37] <Q-FUNK> seb128: I tried both with the left-click option on the dektop and with the appearnce dialog. the result is the same in both cases.
[09:38]  * Ng goes with a ghetto solution of tarring up the contents of the current working package ;)
[09:40] <seb128> Q-FUNK: the left click option starts the appearance capplet
[09:43] <Q-FUNK> seb128: ok
[09:46] <tjaalton> Ng: just copying intel_drv.so is enough
[10:10]  * Ng lost in a sea of version numbers. I want to be building <IP_ADDRESS>, right?
[10:11] <ubotu> New bug: #193211 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "Please sync a new version from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193211
[10:12] <tjaalton> Ng: yes, and the patch on top of that
[10:14] <Ng> hmm, then I reckon it's working. I thought I'd built the previous snapshot version that was working, but I seem to have build <IP_ADDRESS>. I'd like to try again with absolutely-definitely-guaranteed pristine source though ;)
[10:14] <tjaalton> ah :)
[10:19] <Ng> I have some hardy updates to apply first too
[10:59] <bryce> tjaalton: wow, long changelog for -ati.  I'll keep my fingers crossed that it's stable
[11:07] <tjaalton> sure it is
[11:13] <bryce> night
[11:20] <ubotu> New bug: #193233 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "nvidia api mismatch when installing nvidia-glx-new" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193233
[11:25]  * Ng up to date. building driver again...
[15:24] <tjaalton> bryce: btw, the changelog was 6.6.3 -> 6.8.0, so it's considerably shorter for 6.7.197 -> 6.8.0
[16:01] <ubotu> New bug: #193323 in xserver-xorg-video-cirrus (universe) "x fails to startup in qemu" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193323
[16:36] <ubotu> New bug: #187645 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 (restricted) "Evolution calendar consumes 100% CPU with mouse-over info" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187645
[16:51] <seb128> I reassigned this evolution calendar issue
[16:51] <seb128> that's basically cairo rendering being slow on fglrx when not using composite
[16:51] <seb128> not sure if that's cairo, xorg or the driver to blame though
[17:04] <Ng> tjaalton: it looks to me like that patch works
[17:04] <Ng> either that or I'm utterly confused about versions ;)
[17:05] <bryce> tjaalton: ahh, that explains it
[17:23] <tjaalton> Ng: cool, I'll let upstream know
[17:23] <Ng> :)
[17:23] <Ng> can has a new upload with the patch? :D
[17:24] <tjaalton> just apt-get reinstall the driver to see it really was the patch that fixed it?
[17:24] <tjaalton> we'll see :)
[17:25] <Ng> I'll do the reinstall when I get home (couple of hours)
[17:25] <Ng> I'd prefer not to break things while I'm working ;)
[17:28] <tjaalton> heh, ok
[18:53] <ubotu> New bug: #192994 in xorg (main) "X doesnt shut down. Requires CTRL ALT BACKSPACE to kill it so it can shut down" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192994
[20:01] <ubotu> New bug: #193419 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "External monitor loss - intel 945" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193419
[20:22] <mvo> bryce, tjaalton: what is the latest status with regard to i965 and exa/xaa ? I got some mails asking about this for compiz and I was wondering if there is a decision about this yet
[20:23] <bryce> mvo, in fact I'm just now working on my patch for it
[20:24] <bryce> mvo, so I should have more news by the end of the day
[20:24] <mvo> bryce: the patch that makes it happy with exa?
[20:24] <bryce> yes
[20:24] <mvo> thanks
[20:24] <tjaalton> well, 965
[20:25] <tjaalton> but the rest should use XAA
[20:25] <bryce> tjaalton: aside from my patch, is there anything else we need to do to ensure <965 are using XAA?
[20:25] <mvo> I have still distorted window shadows on the 965, but I guess you know about this, right?
[20:26] <mvo> <i965 should be fine, as long as the patch I did for gutsy to use the hardware overlay for Xv is still applied
[20:26] <mvo> (compiz-wise all should be fine for those)
[20:26] <tjaalton> bryce: yes, there's a commit which switched EXA on, so revert that and then add to your patch the rule to use EXA for 965
[20:26] <bryce> yup, in fact that's what I'm using to check if this is working
[20:27] <bryce> mvo, I have a simple patch to fix those borders which has been tested to work, but if this greedy patch solves it, we don't need that patch
[20:27]  * mvo nods
[20:27] <bryce> tjaalton: hmm, sounds like I'll need to also do a patch to force EXA for 965... currently I just check if both those are enabled, and then turn on greedy too
[20:28] <mvo> great, thanks for the update. I'm looking forward to it
[20:28] <tjaalton> mvo: ah so it was your patch :)
[20:28] <tjaalton> bryce: right
[20:28] <mvo> tjaalton: eh, did it broke anything :) ?
[20:28] <tjaalton> mvo: no, I was just wondering where it came from :)
[20:29] <mvo> aha, ok :)
[20:29] <mvo> I think we talked about it when I uploaded the packages, but it was a while ago. it bugged me to no end that i965 wouldn't work, until I discovered that the hardware is missing
[20:29] <mvo> yeah for no docs from intel (fixed now fortunately)
[20:32] <bryce> there's an article on lwn complaining that the community invests more resources in things like reverse engineering nvidia drivers where there aren't docs, and none in -intel where there are (now) plenty of docs.
[20:32] <bryce> I don't know if I would agree there - I suspect it's just that Intel ends up hiring everyone that works on -intel ;-) - but an interesting point of view
[20:36] <pwnguin> id argue as well that nvidia drivers are more valuable
[20:36] <pwnguin> given that the chips are more capable
[20:36] <bryce> pwnguin: do you mean because of nvidia's hardware performance potential?
[20:37] <pwnguin> yea
[20:37] <pwnguin> unless intel has some magic i havent read about since i last went laptop shopping
[20:38] <bryce> whoohoo!!
[20:38] <Q-FUNK> intel voodoo incantation required.
[20:38] <bryce> think I got it working...
[20:38] <bryce> yup :-)
[20:39] <bryce> tjaalton: ok with my greedy patch, borders are now correct, and I've verified greedy is turned on for 965
[20:39] <bryce> tjaalton: what else do we need to check?
[20:43] <tjaalton> that should be enough for now, if it forces EXA as well?
[20:43] <bryce> no I still need to code up that patch
[20:43] <bryce> first want to finish up this one and get it in
[20:44] <bryce> I figure I'll do the two things as separate patches so it'll be easier to drop one or the other independently in the future if we need to
[20:44] <tjaalton> sure
[20:46] <bryce> hmm, doesn't fix the glxgears issue but I guess that's separate.  Movie playback is a lot better
[20:46] <tjaalton> what issue?
[20:47] <tjaalton> btw, someone said that setting EXNoComposite true would improve the performance, but I couldn't tell the difference
[20:50] <bryce> the issue is, run glxgears, then move the window, and it doesn't clear the screen properly
[20:51] <tjaalton> isn't that true for all free drivers atm?-)
[20:52] <tjaalton> maybe the cleanup works with xaa though
[20:52] <bryce> oh is it?  I didn't see it on gutsy with -ati, but maybe it's a 1.4 issue?
[20:52] <bryce> oh and I'm not running compiz, duh
[20:52] <tjaalton> ah
[20:56] <mvo> bryce: that is unfortunately a known issue with compiz :(
[20:57] <mvo> we tried to come up with a workaround, but its (unsurprisingly) pretty difficult
[20:59] <bryce> hmm, this is odd - I rebooted my 965 laptop without installing any greedy patched versions, which had the tearing issue and so forth, and now I cannot reproduce the issues
[21:02] <tjaalton> using the defaults?
[21:03] <bryce> I think so... doing some more testing...
[21:12] <ubotu> New bug: #193458 in xinit (main) "Xsession fails due to an incorrect COLUMNS value" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193458
[21:13] <bryce> btw, here are the deb's I just tested, which seem to work:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Testing/Greedy/
[21:15] <bryce> so far testing is confirming it, but would be nice for independent verification
[21:17] <bryce> performance seems about the same either way, hm
[21:19] <tjaalton> try scrolling in firefox
[21:21] <bryce> ok
[21:21] <bryce> ah, nastiness
[21:22] <bryce> aha, ok all issues reproduced on test hw without patch... now trying with patched driver...
[21:23] <bryce> ahhh, yes that's much better
[21:23] <bryce> cool even the screen tearing's gone
[21:33] <soren> Did something get updated in gutsy relatively recently that could cause my wife's laptop's X to die a few times of day?
[21:41] <tjaalton> only the security patches a month ago
[21:41] <tjaalton> hm, unless the intel driver got in updates
[21:43] <bryce> don't think that's happened
[21:47] <bryce> tjaalton: ok, the xserver patch portion of the fix is ready to be uploaded:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/
[21:48] <tjaalton> 3 is uploaded already ;)
[21:51] <bryce> hmm, apt-get source only pulled a 2 for me
[21:55] <tjaalton> I uploaded it earlier today
[21:57] <bryce> ok, here is an xserver 1ubuntu3, and -intel 2ubuntu5: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/
[21:57] <bryce> could you upload both of those?  Next I'll do the force-exa-on-for-965 patch
[22:05] <tjaalton> sure
[22:15] <bryce> hrm
[22:22] <Ng> tjaalton: ok, that patch is needed, it stops the weird 16-bit look-a-like pixmaps
[22:22] <Ng> (which seems to affect 2d and 3d, weirdly)
[22:23] <Ng> I see it on the ubuntu logo in gdm and on the photo icons on my desktop without the patch
[22:23] <Ng> (I also tried with/without the migration config bits in xorg.conf)
[22:25] <tjaalton> Ng: thanks, I'll add that to the upstream bug
[22:26] <bryce> tjaalton: oh, hmm I forgot, but maybe the depends for -intel should be increased to require that newer xserver
[22:26] <Ng> tjaalton: is there likely to be another upstream drop into hardy before release?
[22:26] <bryce> I've got the xaa-default-except-i965 patch ready to go, I'll roll that depends update into it too if that sounds good to you
[22:26] <tjaalton> Ng: likely
[22:27] <Ng> groovy
[22:29] <Ng> hmm, I don't remember if I actually filed that as a bug
[22:29] <bryce> tjaalton: could you remind me why we prefer XAA for <i965? stability or performance?
[22:30] <tjaalton> performance
[22:30] <tjaalton> Ng: yep you did
[22:30] <tjaalton> Ng: I'll apply the patch on our intel for now
[22:31] <Ng> k
[22:31] <Ng> wrt XAA/EXA, subjectively i think EXA is as fast on 855 with the greedy migration doodad
[22:31] <tjaalton> hmm
[22:32] <tjaalton> maybe it doesn't hurt to let alpha5 be with EXA+greedy for all
[22:34] <bryce> could be, although iirc there are some hardware specificness for EXA performance
[22:35] <tjaalton> it would be nice to not go back to xaa
[22:35] <tjaalton> if possible
[22:36] <tjaalton> I mean staying as close to upstream as possible
[22:38] <bryce> ok, well I'm almost done with the revert back to xaa by default except i965 patch...  let me complete that
[22:39] <bryce> ...ok done - http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/ 2ubuntu6
[22:39] <bryce> hmm
[22:40] <bryce> oh, btw I built the above but didn't test to ensure it goes to xaa on <965
[22:40] <bryce> but the patch looked very straightforward, I'd be surprised if it didn't do exactly what's intended
[22:41] <bryce> oh crap, I forgot to update the depends... one sec
[22:42] <tjaalton> of the driver?
[22:42] <tjaalton> I can do it locally
[22:42] <bryce> yeah
[22:42] <bryce> oh okay cool
[22:43] <tjaalton> although
[22:43] <bryce> if we even want to do that... the driver will build and work against older 1.4 drivers, just will not be using greedy in that case
[22:43] <tjaalton> right
[22:43] <bryce> so yeah, probably no need to change depends I guess
[22:43] <tjaalton> yep, so I'll just upload this one
[22:48] <tjaalton> man, I hope all those drm fixes are backported to the hardy kernel.. should fix a number of intel suspend/resume/hibernation issues
[22:59] <bryce> tjaalton: ok!  I've uploaded a third patch which would do greedy for ALL chipsets, to bug 177492
[22:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177492 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "EXA is balls-achingly slow" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/177492
[23:01] <bryce> tjaalton: all else being equal, I think shipping all-EXA on would be ideal, however I'm not sure what effect turning greedy on for everyone would have
[23:02] <bryce> tjaalton: but all the patches now exist to take whichever route seems best
[23:02] <tjaalton> at least 945 suffers from performance issues
[23:02] <bryce> with greedy?
[23:02] <tjaalton> I uploaded ubuntu6, so 965 should be covered now
[23:02] <tjaalton> ah no, with plain EXA
[23:03] <bryce> ok cool; will those bugs auto-close or should I mark them fix released myself?
[23:03] <tjaalton> they'll auto-close
[23:04] <bryce> okie.  --> lunch
[23:23] <tjaalton> hmm, I wonder if 'dput -u foo' was enough, I can't see those packages on the list yet
[23:24] <tjaalton> instead all vdr plugins are there, and those were uploaded a few minutes ago
[23:25] <tjaalton> anyway, time to get some sleep.. night!
[23:25] <Ng> cya tjaalton
[23:30] <ubotu> New bug: #69082 in gnome-power-manager (main) "Screen goes blank regardless (dup-of: 30969)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/69082


[00:16] <micahg> zequence: if there isn't a studio bzr branch, a debdiff in a bug is fine, if you prefer the bzr workflow, you can propose a merge against the lp:ubuntu/foo branch if there isn't a *-Vcs field in debian/control for Ubuntu
[00:18] <Len-nb> micahg, so after a merge propose, it is automatic? (i mean the correct people are notified) or do I need to do something else?
[00:19] <micahg> once a merge is proposed to lp:ubuntu/foo, it gets into the sponsorship queue
[00:20] <Len-nb> good.
[00:23] <Len-nb> micahg, the fact that you are chatting here, does that mean you are aware we have three packages that need release? (ubuntustudio-default-settings, ubuntustudio-look and ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme)
[00:24] <micahg> Len-nb: so, those I didn't know about, I'd be happy to sponsor them
[00:25] <micahg> Len-nb: any particular order?
[00:25]  * micahg guesses it won't matter
[00:25] <Len-nb> look first
[00:25] <Len-nb> if they are all before the next iso roll no matter
[00:26] <Len-nb> (or inbetween rolls)
[00:27]  * micahg pulls the branches
[00:30] <micahg> zequence: so, if you're changing the default background, you probably want to bump the depends on -look
[00:31] <zequence> micahg: Ok, what does that involve?
[00:31] <micahg> zequence: editing debian/control in the appropriate packages
[00:32] <zequence> micahg: The wallpaper was added to -look
[00:32] <micahg> right, you anything using it needs to depend on the appropriate version of -look
[00:32] <zequence> Oh, you mean -settings, etc?
[00:32] <micahg> and -lightdm-theme
[00:33] <micahg> yeah
[00:33] <zequence> Ok, didn't realize those were so version specific
[00:34] <micahg> you want to make sure that you have the wallpaper available if you're using it
[00:34] <Len-nb> They aren't now but could be.
[00:34] <Len-nb> I have lightdm open.
[00:35] <micahg> Len-nb: zequence changed the defaults, so the dependency needs to be updates appropriately
[00:35] <Len-nb> how do I write the version?
[00:35] <Len-nb> It would depend on the new -look version
[00:36] <Len-nb> is that just .45 or 0.45?
[00:36] <micahg> zequence: the new wallpaper is in -look or -wallpapers?
[00:37] <micahg> 0.45~ to watch for backports
[00:37] <zequence> micahg: -look
[00:37] <zequence> I pushed new commit to -default-settings
[00:38] <micahg> zequence: is that to make sure that it's available even without -wallpapers
[00:38] <Len-nb>  so ubuntustudio-look (>= 0.45) ?
[00:38] <zequence> Len-nb: Yeo
[00:38] <zequence> yep*
[00:38] <micahg>  ubuntustudio-look (>= 0.45~)
[00:39] <Len-nb> I have removed the dep for wallpapers as this only uses the one
[00:39] <zequence> micahg: -wallpapers is from gnome period. -look puts the wallpapers into the XFCE dir
[00:39] <zequence> i.e. /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/
[00:40] <zequence> I'll have a look at reorganizing our packages once this release is out
[00:40] <zequence> It's a bit messy
[00:41] <micahg> ok, lightdm-theme had a dep on -wallpapers, I guess that's maybe what len-1304 was talking about
[00:43] <Len-nb> lightdm is pushed/commited
[00:44] <Len-nb> micahg, I think we have just gotten away with the old deps because we seeded both
[00:44] <micahg> Len-nb: I think you got the wrong version of -look as the dependency :)
[00:45] <micahg> the new wallpaper is in 0.45, so we want 0.45~ :)
[00:48] <Len-nb> Ya, I had left it at the wallpapers version. Fixed now.
[00:48] <Len-nb> micahg, ^^
[00:49]  * Len-nb was up too late fiddling with the studio slideshow
[00:50] <micahg> zequence: also, your changelog says add, but your commit for -look says replaced (which seems more appropriate)
[00:50] <micahg> or rather replaced with
[00:51] <micahg> zequence: ah, I see what happened, you added them as jpg, and then switch them to .png, the changelog is fine
[00:51] <zequence> I added two wallpapers as jpg first, then replaced them with .png
[00:51] <zequence> Yep
[00:51] <micahg> sorry, didn't scroll down the buffer far enough :)
[00:52] <micahg> did you intend for the spaces in the name for the wallpaper? "<_name>Ubuntu Studio Default </_name>"
[00:52] <zequence> I saw a bunch of jpg's and thought maybe it was important for the wallpaper to be jpg, but then noticed not all of them were. Exporting to jpg is a minor trade off
[00:52] <micahg> nah, png is better
[00:52] <micahg> svg would rock actually, no pun intended (well, maybe just a pebble)
[00:53] <Len-nb> makes sense.... gotta get some more artists involved...
[00:53] <micahg> zequence: BTW, in the future, it's good to keep the changelog commit with the change if possible (not a problem either way though as long as it gets in)
[00:54] <micahg> zequence: we also need to update debian/copyright with the new files and their copyrights
[00:54] <zequence> micahg: You mean, sync bzr commits with debian changelog?
[00:55] <zequence> micahg: Isn't there a command to auto-fill debian/changelog with bzr commits?
[00:55] <Len-nb> zequence,  copyrights file in look
[00:55] <micahg> zequence: you added the wallpaper in r152 and then the changelog in r153, those could go together (and you can use debcommit or bzr commit to use the changelog as the commit message)
[00:55] <Len-nb> you need to put your copyright in there
[00:55] <micahg> zequence: it's the other way around
[00:56] <micahg> zequence: the git workflow is sometimes the other way around where they populate from the Vcs
[00:58] <zequence> micahg: Ah, ok. That's what I was after. i think it would be best to use debcommit as much as possible
[00:59] <micahg> that's what I try to do, it uses whatever's changed in debian/changelog as the commit message
[00:59] <micahg> if you need to modify, debcommit -e
[01:00] <zequence> micahg: Ok. I pushed the changed copyright to -looks
[01:02] <micahg> zequence: and you understand your graphics are under the CC-SA 2.5?
[01:02] <zequence> micahg: Yes, and that works for me
[01:03] <zequence> Don't know what it means in detail, but don't really care at this point
[01:03] <micahg> ok
[01:03] <zequence> Had to change the license details on the wiki page too
[01:03] <micahg> I don't know the specifics of the license
[01:03] <zequence> Seems to work for this usage, so that's fine with me
[01:03] <micahg> ok
[02:23] <zequence> ..and suddenly, Ardour3 is out
[03:14] <Len-nb> Yup
[03:14] <Len-nb> Pay for use, or free minus usability.
[03:15] <Len-nb> Does mixbus support ardour?
[03:17] <Len-nb> (money wise?)
[03:29] <Len-nb> zequence, the desktop file for hexter shows up first in the debian package.
[03:30] <Len-nb> Do they have something like bzr? Or can I use bzr on the source to create one?
[03:47] <Len-nb> zequence, debian has me confused... they have a document about menus... XDG is not mentioned... desktop files are not mentioned.... icons are expected to be in pixmaps, as xpms... all fvwm oriented.
[03:48] <Len-nb> This is debian policy? http://www.debian.org/devel/ shows only the one menu item.
[04:23] <micahg> Len-nb: http://wiki.debian.org/MimeTypesSupport ?
[04:45] <len-1304> micahg, I was just wondering if there was a way it was supposed to be included in the package. I guess with most apps the SW designer does it whatever way they want. In the case of hexter it is not in the original src, so it resides in the debian directory.
[04:46] <len-1304> Both desktop file and icon are there, but the icon is not installed.
[04:46] <micahg> len-1304: just install it in the install file or debian/rules
[04:46] <micahg> .install
[04:47] <len-1304> The icon is bad, so I want to make another.
[04:47] <len-1304> Then I will send them both fixes.
[04:47] <micahg> ok
[09:14] <smartboyhw> len-1304, dholbach uploaded  the lmms fix to -proposed
[09:14]  * smartboyhw really thanks dholbach
[09:22] <smartboyhw> zequence, so did we get the artwork in?
[09:28] <zequence> smartboyhw: not yet, but the packages should all be ready for upload now
[09:28] <zequence> micahg: Was everything ok now for upload?
[09:29] <smartboyhw> zequence, OK:)
[09:34] <smartboyhw> Jesus armhf was really slow
[11:12] <ttoine> hi
[11:12] <ttoine> hopefully, I will have some time this to write the interview with S Letz
[11:13] <ttoine> I saw that there is something to review... do I need to do something ?
[11:23] <zequence> ttoine: It's a merge request by Len yesterday. It seems the -dev team has been requested to review, but I can handle it
[11:23] <zequence> ttoine: Let me ask you, do you do any development? Why is it that you are a member of -dev?
[11:23] <zequence> My logic is that we will only be members of teams that specifically touch what you are working on. The -dev team I am making a more strict developer team
[11:24] <zequence> So, basically only package maintenance
[12:11] <ttoine> zequence, i don't do development
[12:11] <ttoine> that's why I am surprised
[12:11] <ttoine> zequence, I tried Ubuntu Phone this week-end
[12:12] <ttoine> it is not really ready to use. More like a beautiful demo for traide fair ;-)
[12:13] <zequence> That's the picture I've gotten watching the videos. I do wonder though, can you access a terminal, or something, or is it just a very static experience?
[12:13] <ttoine> it is not so static
[12:13] <ttoine> you can phone and browse the web
[12:13] <ttoine> but there is no way to bulk import contacts
[12:13] <zequence> Yes, but can you make any changes?
[12:13] <ttoine> most of what you can see in the demo is just demo
[12:15] <zequence> ttoine: So, do you mind if I remove you from the -dev team? That way you wont be notified of those things, and if you aren't going to work on packaging, you won't need the privilege anyway
[12:15] <ttoine> zequence, no problem at all
[12:15] <zequence> ok, thanks
[12:33] <smartboyhw> len-1304, the fix was now in raring-release and the bug was denoted "Fix Released"
[13:07] <len-1304> smartboyhw, good
[13:56] <ttoine> zequence, len-1304 astraljava http://community.ardour.org/node/6908
[13:56] <ttoine> ardour 3 is released
[14:04] <smartboyhw> ttoine, \o/
[14:04] <smartboyhw> Is it too late for an FFe?
[14:25] <ttoine> ffe ??
[14:25] <smartboyhw> ttoine, Feature Freeze Exception
[14:25] <ttoine> smartboyhw, you have to pey to get a package version
[14:25] <smartboyhw> ttoine, !?
[14:25]  * smartboyhw doesn't understand
[14:25] <ttoine> sorry
[14:26] <ttoine> ardour ask downloaders to pay, at least 1$
[14:26] <ttoine> or sources are available for free
[14:26] <ttoine> so maybe we should package it for our users
[14:26] <ttoine> I think I will ask too if harrison mixbus licence owner should pay too
[14:27] <smartboyhw> ttoine, sources of course:P
[14:27] <smartboyhw> I think we need to get it through Debian first
[16:26] <zequence> Debian Multimedia have already prepared for ardour3
[16:26] <zequence> But, I personally don't think we need to hurry with that
[16:27] <zequence> If someone wants to.
[16:29] <zequence> Ubuntu Gnome became an official flavor now
[17:18] <ttoine> zequence, wtf ?? a derivative with gnome as default desktop ? but wich version of gnome ?
[17:19] <zequence> ttoine: AFAIK, there's only one Gnome
[17:19] <zequence> namely, gnome3
[17:20] <zequence> Already 12.10, you could install the meta ubuntu-gnome-desktop, which was packaged by the same guys
[17:20] <zequence> I guess they've come up to whatever standard and organization needed in order to be accepted as an official flavor
[17:22] <ttoine> zequence, yes
[19:14] <micahg> zequence: yeah, everything was fine, I'll be uploading in a bit
[19:29] <zequence> len-1304: did you do something with the desktop screenshot?
[19:30] <zequence> I don't like how it looks
[19:30] <zequence> I thought my orginal screenshot was ok
[19:30] <zequence> or, wait
[19:31] <zequence> Is that the old one. Need to bzr this
[19:32] <zequence> Ah, yes. Looks much better once I update :)
[21:28] <Len-nb> zequence, Ya I used the one you sent :)
[23:45] <Lumpy> ello ello all
[23:45] <Lumpy> how are you all tonight
[23:46] <Len-nb> Lumpy, Hello, ok, sore legs today.
[23:47] <Lumpy> heavy load at the postal office eh?
[23:47]  * Lumpy says hello Len-nb like sienfeld said hello newman :P
[23:47] <Len-nb> Time change, lots of magazines
[23:48] <Lumpy> time changes never phase me much
[23:48] <Lumpy> my sleep is too irregular to even notice
[23:48]  * Len-nb is kind of disconnected from the TV world
[23:48] <Lumpy> me too actually
[23:49] <Lumpy> just a few shows that rerun late night
[23:49] <Lumpy> and big bang theory
[23:49] <Len-nb> It is pretty good that I knew you were talking about TV :)
[23:49] <Lumpy> but i am a weekly watcher of walking dead
[23:50] <Lumpy> doing some news tonight
[23:50] <Len-nb> No cable, no rabbit ears
[23:50] <Lumpy> got jack set at 92.9 msec latency
[23:50] <Lumpy> lets see ho that goes
[23:50] <Lumpy> i still have rabbit ears
[23:50] <Len-nb> Saying the news or watching?
[23:50] <Lumpy> we do a monday night tech net news show
[23:50] <Lumpy> pretty much off the top of our heads
[23:51] <Lumpy> you are welcome to join us via teamspeak
[23:51] <Len-nb> I would run out in less than 5 min.
[23:51] <Lumpy> well that is part of the fun of it
[23:51] <Lumpy> we mostly discuss it
[23:51] <Lumpy> so it is more opinion than news
[23:52] <Lumpy> some big updates for studio soon though aren't there?
[23:53] <Len-nb> I thiink beta 1 is today
[23:54] <Lumpy> maybbe you or someone from here would like to enlighten us on that one
[23:54] <Lumpy> just a suggestion
[23:54] <Lumpy> no pressure
[23:54] <Lumpy> brian usually has more news for any given night anyhow
[23:55] <Len-nb> Ubuntu has been a bit topsy turvy the last few weeks. Some big changes seem to be coming
[23:56] <Lumpy> also i have a question for you
[23:56] <Len-nb> We were not sure there was going to be a 13.04
[23:56] <Lumpy> i did manage to crash out the machine last broadcast
[23:56] <Lumpy> but there is nothing in the synergy log of any value
[23:56] <Lumpy> i am wondering if i am crashing out the desktop, or keyboard and mouse
[23:57] <Lumpy> where would i look for a log or how would i log it?
[23:57] <Len-nb> /var/log/
[23:57] <Len-nb> There are a bunch of files
[23:57] <Lumpy> but wouldn't there be a specific log file to look in?
[23:57] <Len-nb> messages used to have just about everything
[23:57] <Lumpy> kk
[23:57] <Len-nb> but less now. syslog too
[23:58] <Lumpy> i will start there... i am going to try and replicate it evertime i can
[23:58] <Lumpy> till i fix it
[23:58] <Lumpy> problem is it only happens every 6 weeks or so
[23:58] <Len-nb> mouse/display stuff might show up in Xorg.0.log
[23:59] <Lumpy> but i see no errors in the synergy logs
[23:59] <Lumpy> so, for now, I am ruling that out and looking elsewhere
[23:59] <Lumpy> though i have noticed that synergy hogs resources from time to time
[23:59] <Lumpy> and my solution is to kill the gui via task manager