[00:00] <LaserJock> I'd like to try to centralize and condense the amount of "info" we have to be easily accessible
[00:03] <Lns> i agree
[00:03] <Lns> i have my own wiki page that tries to do that, maybe we can use that as a rough template of sorts
[00:04] <Lns>  http://lns.wikidot.com/referenceurls  is what i was most thinking of
[00:04] <Lns> like an index page of all relevant resources
[00:05] <LaserJock> definitely something like that
[00:06] <Lns> =)
[00:06] <Lns> the thing that's most frustrating to me is how to create a single hierarchy of finding WHERE to go...it's multidimensional
[00:07] <Lns> you almost need a search algorithm to be efficient
[00:07] <LaserJock> so I basically see 3 primary "areas" of documentation
[00:07] <LaserJock> 1) about Edubuntu - release notes, why you should use it, it's goals
[00:07] <LaserJock> 2) how to get help
[00:07] <LaserJock> 3) how to help/contribute
[00:08] <Lns> That sounds sane enough
[00:09] <LaserJock> so we could basically use one of those index pages for each of those areas
[00:09] <Lns> yeah
[00:10] <Lns> but the thing is, Xubuntu people, for example, won't look at Edubuntu for any of this
[00:10] <LaserJock> well, tbh, I don't want them too :-)
[00:10] <LaserJock> *to
[00:10] <Lns> But what about cross-distro collaboration on bugs in Gnome vs. ltsp for instance?
[00:11] <Lns> Edubuntu and Ubuntu both use gnome as their DE
[00:11] <LaserJock> well, ok, here's how I see it
[00:12] <LaserJock> if you try to make a "one-size-fits-all" index it will either be so details as to be unnavigable or so vague as to be unhelpful
[00:12] <Lns> yeah...that's why i mentioned the search thing above...not that i think that's a good solution, but i agree
[00:12] <LaserJock> what we want is for Edubuntu people to easily plug into Edubuntu resources
[00:12] <LaserJock> then people who connect groups do their work of getting things where they need to go
[00:13] <LaserJock> you leverage the human network to pull everything together
[00:13] <Lns> well we need to further distinctify (is that a word?) between edubuntu and ltsp in linux
[00:13] <LaserJock> there may be some of that needed
[00:13] <Lns> yea
[00:13] <LaserJock> because for a while there Edubuntu was LTSP upstream so they got tied together
[00:14] <LaserJock> but now we need to sort of pull them back apart
[00:14] <LaserJock> so Edubuntu isn't responsible for everything LTSP, and other distros feel free to contribute to the broader LTSP documentation and support
[00:15] <Lns> exactly
[00:16] <Lns> the links are too hard to find for "normal" people though, to get to the resources they need...i think a catch-all wiki would be a good place to start, that's just me though
[00:16] <Lns> i like the idea of the 1) 2) 3) top-level areas though
[00:17] <Lns> a filesystem-type drill-down way to get to information
[00:18] <LaserJock> well, except those are somewhat notorious for being only intuitive to the person who designed the hierarchy :-)
[00:18] <Lns> hehe
[00:18] <Lns> i guess that's true
[00:18] <Lns> man..this is hard
[00:18] <Lns> i almost wish ubuntu didn't have so many different sub-distros
[00:19] <LaserJock> "is that Networking -> Server -> Samba or Filesystems -> Network -> Samba"
[00:19] <LaserJock> well, don't think of it a sub-distros then :-)
[00:19] <Lns> yeah - it's too 2-dimensional
[00:19] <Lns> heh
[00:19] <Lns> we need a 3D space of areas
[00:19] <LaserJock> especially in Edubuntu where we're just an addon
[00:20] <Lns> exactly
[00:20] <LaserJock> there's really no particular reason to think of us a sub-distro
[00:20] <Lns> well i don't really anymore
[00:20] <LaserJock> maybe better to think of a Special Interest Group or something
[00:20] <Lns> but a lot of people still do, because edubuntu is the first "distro" (back then) that started making thin-client networks easy to deploy
[00:20] <Lns> it got stuck with the reputation ;)
[00:21] <LaserJock> well, we can do that too
[00:21] <LaserJock> that's the beauty of it, IMO, we can be a "distro" to some, "flavor" to others, "those weirdos that hate hard drives" to others ;-)
[00:21] <Lns> heh
[00:22] <Lns> but how to point those things to the single entity that is edubuntu
[00:22] <Lns> you almost need a switchboard operator
[00:22] <LaserJock> well, I think when it really comes down to it, nobody cares
[00:22] <Lns> i agree with that
[00:22] <LaserJock> they're using "something"
[00:22] <Lns> they are goal oriented
[00:22] <LaserJock> sometimes it has bugs
[00:23] <LaserJock> sometimes they need help using it
[00:23] <LaserJock> but yeah, they're just trying to do something
[00:23] <Lns> maybe that would be a better focus
[00:23] <Lns> on the goal, rather than the technology
[00:24] <Lns> seems more human
[00:24] <Lns> "I want education-related software and themes on my computer"
[00:24] <Lns> "I want thin-clients"
[00:25] <LaserJock> so ...
[00:25] <LaserJock> on my 3 index pages I'd group by those tasks/goals
[00:26] <Lns> mmk
[00:26] <LaserJock> let's try that out real quick
[00:26] <LaserJock> 1) What is Edubuntu?
[00:26] <Lns> you want me to do this on my wiki?
[00:26] <Lns> i actually can right now
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * educational OS for kids
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * thin-client server environment for educational settings
[00:27] <stgraber> oh, looks like interesting discussions here
[00:27] <LaserJock>   * educational content delivery platform
[00:27] <Lns> stgraber: feel free to chime in with your thoughts
[00:28] <LaserJock> 2) How can I get help?
[00:28] <LaserJock>   * Help for educational programs
[00:28] <LaserJock>   * Help for LTSP servers
[00:29] <LaserJock>   * Help for general issues
[00:29] <LaserJock> 3) How can I contribute/help?
[00:30] <LaserJock>   * General information - mailing lists, IRC, reporting a bug
[00:30] <LaserJock>   * Making LTSP better
[00:31] <LaserJock>   * Becoming a part of the Edubuntu team
[00:31] <LaserJock> hmm, well, that's what came off the top of my head anyway
[00:32] <Lns> it's a great start
[00:32] <Lns> let me whip up a page and put those in there
[00:32] <stgraber> * Packaging education packages ? (reporting new softwares)
[00:33] <LaserJock> yeah, I think that might be a good one
[00:35] <Lns> Ok, let's go back to the 3 main areas - i gave them more generic names, what do you think of "About", "Support", and "Contribute"
[00:36] <Lns> and i'll put descriptions in those names
[00:36] <LaserJock> hmmmm
[00:37] <Lns> maybe i'm getting off base
[00:38] <Lns> but if these are all going to point to the REAL resources (and not try to just create another fragmented information source), those might be good starting points
[00:40] <LaserJock> no, that's good, I just got a lightbulb in my head
[00:45] <Lns> I created as generic of a top-level as possible - i called it "Goal Digger"
[00:45] <Lns> so there's no way we will have to recreate things from the top
[00:45] <Lns> http://lns.wikidot.com/goal-digger
[00:46] <Lns> man...i want those [+] things to create a nice menu
[00:46] <Lns> but that even seems too 2-dimensional
[00:47] <Lns> i'd love to create something that taps into all of the other menus and creates symlink type things
[00:47] <Lns> but that's the hierarchy of the wiki itself probably
[00:47] <Lns> (sorry talking to myself kinda)
[00:54] <Lns> ok, i created a new wiki all together for this, anyone can edit it (can't on the other one i posted)
[00:54] <Lns> http://goaldigger.wikidot.com/start
[00:56] <Lns> I need to leave, but why don't we keep this URL and start adding web page addresses, IRC resources, mailing list URLs, etc. to it?
[00:57] <Lns> I'll be back tomorrow and maybe we can all talk about it more
[00:57] <LaserJock> Lns: in a little bit I think I'll have something on edubuntu.org
[00:57] <Lns> LaserJock: ok
[00:58] <LaserJock> I thought, hmm, why not just rip of the nice work the ubuntu.com webmaster have done :-)
[00:58] <Lns> LaserJock: might as well :)
[00:58] <LaserJock> so I'm taking http://www.ubuntu.com/community
[00:58] <LaserJock> and remolding it into our About, Support, Contribute
[00:58] <LaserJock> but I'm going to add Governance on there
[00:59] <Lns> ok
[01:01] <Lns> alright i'm outtie
[01:02] <Lns> let's get back on this tomorrow if possible... ping me if possible, let's keep the ideas flowing
[01:02] <Lns> i'll try and get back here asap though
[01:06] <LaserJock> stgraber: still around?
[01:24] <stgraber> LaserJock: yep
[01:27] <LaserJock> stgraber: have a look at http://www.edubuntu.org/node/50
[01:27] <stgraber> LaserJock: access denied
[01:27] <LaserJock> stgraber: did you log in?
[01:27] <LaserJock> can you log in?
[01:28] <stgraber> LaserJock: yeah
[01:28] <stgraber> I'm logged in
[01:28] <LaserJock> and still nothing?
[01:28] <stgraber> but I'm not sure I have much right on the website actually
[01:28] <LaserJock> stgraber: try it now
[01:29] <stgraber> ok, it worked this time
[01:30] <LaserJock> I need icons for the top and to tweak the other section for Edubuntu
[01:30] <LaserJock> but I think it might make a good landing spot
[01:30] <stgraber> yes and the header is broken on that page
[01:31] <LaserJock> yeah, I don't know why, not sure if it's something I did (don't know why that'd happen) or not
[01:34] <stgraber> the page doesn't validate, some non-closed tag it looks like
[01:34] <stgraber> (according to validator.w3.org)
[01:37] <LaserJock> stgraber: ok fixed
[01:38] <stgraber> yeah, looks good now. I like the way that page is done
[04:03] <sbalneav> Evenin all
[04:03] <HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
[04:08] <sbalneav> Evening HedgeMage
[04:08] <HedgeMage> how are you tonight?
[04:09] <sbalneav> I'm doin' allright, as the song says :)
[04:09] <HedgeMage> :)
[04:15] <sbalneav> I upgraded my CPU and Ram yesterday, so now I have a CPU that can do full VT, and I can play around with qemu/kvm
[04:16] <HedgeMage> cool
[06:23] <firewall_03> I am having trouble getting my wifi card to work with 7.04 its a Dlink Dwl-G650, and I have read through a lot of the docs ubuntus page
[10:30] <awilkins> I think you guys underestimate the annoyance of not having a LiveCD ; any chance of a LiveDVD image (I know that edubuntu adds around 430MB)
[10:30] <awilkins> Would it be reasonably easy to generate one?
[14:39] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:42] <ogra> morning s!
[14:42] <ogra> :)
[14:51] <Voelund> Hey guys!
[14:52] <Voelund> I got a problem with GnomePanel! any pro that got some time?
[14:54] <Nubae> Voelund: what's the problem?
[14:55] <Voelund> :Nubae:  Well When i start my system gnomepanel doesnt work so i only see my desktop and no Over and under panels are showing.
[14:56] <Voelund> So im on in Failsafe Gnome
[14:56] <Voelund> then it works
[14:56] <Voelund> My Update download tool isnt working either, but ill fix that later.
[14:57] <Voelund> Im not so good on the terminal, any command i can use to repair Gnome?
[14:59] <sbalneav> Simplest way to do that would be to log in as yourself on a text screen
[14:59] <sbalneav> and type the following command:
[14:59] <sbalneav> gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/panel
[14:59] <sbalneav> That will reset panel configs back to the default
[15:00] <sbalneav> log in again on the console, and you should have the "default" Ubuntu panel config.
[15:00] <Voelund> okay, ill try that
[15:02] <Voelund> shouldnt i do that in root?
[15:03] <Voelund> Ill try relogg then. brb
[15:03] <Voelund> ill tell you how it went
[18:17] <LaserJock> Lns: around?
[18:32] <Lns> LaserJock: just got in
[18:32] <Lns> What's up?
[18:35] <LaserJock> Lns: http://edubuntu.org/node/50
[18:36] <Lns> LaserJock: nice! =)
[18:36] <Lns> looks strangely familiar ;)
[18:36] <LaserJock> yeah
[18:37] <LaserJock> it's not fully "edubuntuized" yet
[18:37] <Lns> yeah, great start though
[18:37] <LaserJock> but I think it might make a good "landing spot" for people
[18:37] <Lns> most definitely
[18:37] <Lns> Do we want to keep this focussed on *buntu ? Or should we incorporate other distros?
[18:39] <LaserJock> I want it focused on Edubuntu specifically
[18:39] <Lns> ok - so the educational apps specifically, or LTSP resources as well?
[18:39] <LaserJock> and then some place like ltsp.org could then pull the distros together
[18:39] <Lns> gotcha
[18:40] <Lns> I'd like to get in contact with the maintainers of ltsp.org regarding a revamp if possible
[18:40] <Lns> it would be the sensible 'hub' for all things ltsp
[18:40] <Lns> obviously heh
[18:41] <LaserJock> well, sometimes the most obvious places don't end up being where things are at, for one reason or another
[18:41] <Lns> yeah
[18:41] <Lns> like whitehouse.com ;)
[18:41] <LaserJock> haha
[18:41] <Lns> LaserJock: Also, have you checked out schoolforge.net ? That might be some people we can collaborate with
[18:41] <Lns> Last night I was thinking about starting a non-profit regarding FOSS in education and other places, but they seem to have the ball rolling already
[18:42] <Lns> It would be fun to see how much momentum we can get regarding consolidating all of this information
[18:45] <Nubae> Lns: I've incorporated some of what you put in your getting started pdf into the official ltsp documentation
[18:45] <Lns> Nubae: oh wow
[18:45] <Lns> :)
[18:45] <Lns> thank you!
[18:46] <Lns> I wasn't sure if it was good enough to put in something like that heh
[18:46] <Nubae> misbehaving processes, user management
[18:46] <Lns> awesome
[18:46] <Nubae> sure it was :-) and thankyou
[18:47] <Lns> One thing you might want to add, well..actually i should file a bug, is that KUser is flawed when run from Gnome - you have to modify the .desktop file to run "gksudo kuser" instead of the default exec= line
[18:47] <Lns> otherwise it doesn't elevate your privs correctly and won't work
[18:48] <LaserJock> Lns: why are you using kuser?
[18:48] <Lns> LaserJock: Mainly because there are sorting/searching issues with gnome-users-admin
[18:48] <Lns> (it doesn't work)
[18:48] <LaserJock> perhaps we should fix that
[18:48] <Lns> There's a filed bug already
[18:49] <Lns> lemme dig it up
[18:49] <Lns> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/259163
[18:49] <LaserJock> while I appreciate the constraints school admins are under, etc. people are waaaaay too hack-happy in Edubuntu :-)
[18:50] <Lns> LaserJock: what do you mean?
[18:50] <LaserJock> I mean, I've never seen a community so eager for nasty hacks, workarounds, or ditching programs
[18:51] <LaserJock> I understand the reasons why, but it's really not helpful for developers
[18:51] <Lns> I agree
[18:52] <Lns> I see that is a big problem for the long-term acceptance of edubuntu
[18:52] <Lns> people need things to work, but these hacks break upgrades and just cause fragmentation
[18:52] <LaserJock> ok, so this bug is a good point
[18:52] <sbalneav> LaserJock: hey hey
[18:53] <LaserJock> you've filed the bug not against ltsp, that's good
[18:53] <LaserJock> *but* Edubuntu won't know about it at all
[18:53] <LaserJock> perhaps we should start either using a tag or subscribing to these bugs
[18:53] <LaserJock> sbalneav: morning
[18:53] <Lns> LaserJock: what about triaging? would that work in this case?
[18:54] <LaserJock> well, but we have to know the bugs exist first
[18:54]  * Lns is still learning about the bug proces
[18:54] <Lns> s*
[18:54] <Lns> hmm
[18:54] <Lns> you know what i've seen before, which i'm not sure is present or not in LP, but in Mozilla bugzilla, is a default e-mail list whenever a bug is created
[18:54] <LaserJock> so the problem is we have a "radar" ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/~edubuntu-bugs/+packagebugs ) but if a bug doesn't get on the radar we're not going to know about it
[18:55] <Lns> "Bug e-mail sent to foo@foo, bar@bar, etc"
[18:55] <sbalneav> LaserJock: So, see the post about getting the DebuggingLTSP page as our central point for "bugs that affect LTSP deployments"?
[18:55] <LaserJock> right, well, Edubuntu isn't going to subscribe to *every* bug in Ubuntu
[18:55] <Lns> LaserJock: right - well critical, default packages like this do effect all *buntus
[18:55] <LaserJock> sbalneav: briefly (trying to get some research done this morning), did you create that page?
[18:56] <LaserJock> Lns: right, but right now there are 200 open bugs on the package you filed that bug against
[18:56] <Lns> wow
[18:56] <Lns> that's...good? :p
[18:56] <LaserJock> Lns: having an edubuntu developer know it's there so they can either 1) fix it or 2) push it forward is important
[18:57] <LaserJock> so we have 2 good options, tagging and subscribing
[18:57] <LaserJock> Lns: the kernel has ~3500 open bugs :-)
[18:58] <Lns> LaserJock: well...a kernel vs. a user admin gui... a bit different. Of course IANAP so i'll shut up ;)
[18:58] <LaserJock> they are different, but people still have to look at them
[18:58] <Lns> But that particular bug has been present for a loooong time..i was just surprised that it wasn't reported earlier than i did
[18:58] <LaserJock> Ubuntu right now has ~48k bugs open
[18:59] <LaserJock> we need to be able to get Edubuntu people's bugs fixed in all that
[18:59] <LaserJock> 48k bugs and < 200 developers
[18:59] <sbalneav> LaserJock: No, it was already there, but very sparsly filled.  I figure rather than a new page, we could expand that one.
[18:59] <Lns> Well I have some good feedback from my site techs regarding issues (they love to complain about everything ;) ) so I can always somehow report them back here
[18:59] <Lns> probably on a schedule or something
[19:00] <Lns> Is there a meeting scheudle for simply reporting issues with Edubuntu?
[19:00] <LaserJock> sbalneav: ok good, I think that's a *perfect* place to tie into the existing QA work
[19:00] <LaserJock> Lns: no, that's generally not productive
[19:01] <Lns> ok
[19:01] <Lns> so just tagging edubuntu bugsquad to filing my bugs will probably suffice
[19:01] <LaserJock> complaints are almost always too general to do much with, and people just go around and around
[19:02] <LaserJock> it might be helpful for people to vent
[19:02] <LaserJock> but I'd rather they vent in the direction of LP so we can do something about it
[19:02] <Lns> LaserJock: oh no, i agree - I can translate those complaints into bug reports and get us informed on them though - because, unfortunately, 90% of the complaints  I get are actually bug-related
[19:03] <LaserJock> sure, the more bug reports the better
[19:03]  * Lns just joined Edubuntu bugsquad
[19:03] <LaserJock> ogra: you have a quick second?
[19:06] <LaserJock> sbalneav: do you have any feeling about how non-ltsp bugs should get on the Edubuntu radar?
[19:07] <LaserJock> my feeling is subscribing is the best way to go, although tags are a bit easier to do
[19:07] <LaserJock> Lns: dude, your first name is Jordan?
[19:07] <Lns> yes
[19:08] <LaserJock> cool, so is mine
[19:08] <Lns> oh wow hehe!
[19:08] <LaserJock> my wife always tells me it's a girls name :-)
[19:09] <Lns> so you're probably Mantha on the lists?
[19:09] <Lns> haha... it's both dammit!
[19:09] <Lns> It's definitely more masculine than "Jordina" haha
[19:10] <Lns> which a friend of mine loves to call me...hate that guy :p
[19:10] <LaserJock> lol
[19:11] <LaserJock> well, I live in city with fairly large hispanic population so I'm usually Jorge
[19:12] <Lns> hahaha.. i've never been called that..i live in northern california, which also has a good hispanic population.. i kinda like that though
[19:12] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Well, I'm perfectly happy to subscribe to them as a developer, but I'm just one guy.  What we need is some end-user agitation to "bump up the priority" on those bugs, and get them taken seriously.
[19:13] <sbalneav> That was why I thought the wiki page with the pointers TO the bugs we're targetting might be a good way to pull in the community to add their voice to the mix.
[19:13] <LaserJock> Lns: where do you live??
[19:13] <Lns> sbalneav: I had started to do that on my own wiki (pointing to bugs) - it seemed, at least to me, to be a great help and an easy way to keep up to date
[19:14] <Lns> LaserJock: About 1hr north of San Francisco
[19:14] <LaserJock> sbalneav: right, but from my perspective I need them on my radar so that I can "pimp your bug" ;-)
[19:14] <LaserJock> Lns: funny, I'm in Reno
[19:14] <Lns> LaserJock: oh wow!
[19:14] <Lns> I'm in Santa Rosa
[19:15] <LaserJock> oh, I bet it's nice there
[19:15] <Lns> LaserJock: you know what, "Pimp my bug" would be an awesome domain for bug collaboration :p
[19:15] <Lns> It's ok... great mexican food :)
[19:16] <Lns> it's been hot as hell though.. how's it out there? My mom was once considering moving to Reno, she liked it a lot up there
[19:16] <LaserJock> Lns: you been to Reno, other than Lake Tahoe it's a desert
[19:16] <sbalneav> LaserJock: yeah, so subcribining will fix that I think.
[19:16] <sbalneav> As for pimping my bugs, I want bling and pretty things that spin.
[19:16] <Lns> I haven't even been to LT since I was a kid
[19:16] <sbalneav> Oooh, and a boss sound system
[19:17] <Lns> LOL
[19:17] <sbalneav> And hydraulics
[19:17] <LaserJock> "dude, look at the grill on that bug, that's haaawt!"
  For instance: If you shorten it to just the wget, does the file come down?
[19:28] <sbalneav> Wonder if this might be an issue?
[19:28] <sbalneav><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:28] <sbalneav> They seem to indicate creating a udeb, then putting the script in that
[19:32] <Goosemoose> the wget works fine
[19:32] <Goosemoose> no error returned
[19:32] <Goosemoose> so it has to be the part after
[19:32] <Goosemoose> but if i type it on the command line it works fine
[19:33] <Goosemoose> this isn't an interactive script though
[19:33] <Goosemoose> it just joins the domain
[19:37] <sbalneav> Does it produce output?
[19:38] <sbalneav> I wonder if it doesn't like any output produced. Maybe ./post_install_tasks returns > /dev/null 2>&1
[19:43] <Goosemoose> might be
[19:43] <Goosemoose> hmm
[19:55] <jimmy_birer> hi
[19:56] <LaserJock> hello
[20:17] <sbalneav> "I expect the -devel list to pick up soonish"
[20:17] <sbalneav> Should be my new .signature.
[20:17]  * Lns sees that just communicating with the community is a full-time job ;)
[20:17] <sbalneav> Well, this is it.
[20:18] <sbalneav> I'm at my full-time job, frantically trying to do my work I get paid for, PLUS answer emails, PLUS monitor the IRC channel.
[20:18] <LaserJock> so true
[20:18] <LaserJock> I'm preparing to teach lab, trying to write a journal article and dissertation, work on edubuntu.org ...
[20:19] <Lns> Im trying to stay afloat with my own business, support an employee, and pay my bills...along with this :)
[20:19] <LaserJock> yep, such is life in FLOSS much of the time
[20:20]  * Lns is proud to be considered part of the OSS community
[20:21] <jimmy_birer> :d
[20:21] <jimmy_birer> :d
[20:21] <Lns> I would recommend a stress reliever ... I just got this from Thinkgeek..I can't wait for it to arrive. http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/cubegoodies/922f/
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> edubuntu system requirements?
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> i have 8 MB of ram
[20:22] <jimmy_birer> :D
[20:23] <LaserJock> ... okaaay
[20:23] <Lns> wow...was that kinda like a doorbell ditch?
[20:24] <sbalneav> I was gonna tell him that 8MB of ram was a real Kickass DOS 3.3 system
[20:24] <LaserJock> at least it wasn't a flaming paper bag ;-)
[20:24] <Lns> heh
[20:25] <Lns> SO... anyone have any comment on this Firefox 3.01 issue? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=453704
[20:26] <johnny> never seen it
[20:26] <johnny> no firefox errors here..
[20:26] <Lns> johnny: how many users do you have on at the same time?
[20:26] <Lns> I haven't seen it at my office, but there are only 2 TCs
[20:26] <johnny> 4 :)
[20:26] <Lns> hehe
[20:26] <johnny> so.. >3 :)
[20:27] <Lns> well it's an estimation
[20:27] <Lns> and in my situation about 35 users will be logging on, all at once
[20:27] <johnny> i really don't see how it would be a problem..
[20:27] <johnny> slowness maybe, but not "firefox is already running"
[20:27] <Lns> Right...i agree, it's strange.
[20:27] <johnny> that problem disappeared for me
[20:27] <johnny> after firefox 3
[20:28] <Lns> But it's definitely present at 7 of my sites
[20:28] <Lns> johnny: well it actually started happening for me after upgrading to Hardy
[20:28] <Lns> Gutsy worked great in Firefox (minus the whole pixmap issue)
[20:29] <Lns> But this issue is causing teachers and labtechs to revert to Windows 2000 :(
[20:29] <Lns> They're starting to hate the "new Linux system" with a passion
[20:30] <johnny> i had the opposite
[20:30] <Lns> Well maybe it's safe to say that the problem occurs when more than 10 users log on simultaneously
[20:30] <johnny> i had the "firefox is already running" on gutsy for every user
[20:30] <johnny> even just my 4
[20:31] <Lns> The thing is, with mine, that error starts cropping up after ~3-5 minutes of lag-time after trying to launch Firefox.
[20:31] <johnny> switch from firefox to seamonkey maybe?
[20:31] <Lns> Some students will see the "Launching Firefox" panel tab dissapear after that amount of time, and when they try again, it will spew the error.
[20:32] <Lns> johnny: that's not a good idea for me.
[20:33] <Lns> And really, switching software because there's an issue will never get the issue resolved for others.
[20:33] <Lns> Which is extremely counterproductive for the community.
[20:33] <johnny> sure.. but it'll get your folks working
[20:33] <johnny> and prove what the issue is
[20:34] <johnny> especially since they should both be based on xulrunner
[20:37] <Lns> I'll try seamonkey out myself... i was thinking of epiphany as a temporary solution, but the thing is, i will need java/flash as they require it for typing programs and ciriculums
[20:38] <johnny> flash is still going to be a problem
[20:38] <johnny> until you can run it locally
[20:38] <Lns> yeah - and java it looks like too
[20:39] <Lns> so....no go for that
[20:39] <johnny> running it locally seems feasible these days.. with newer ssh
[20:39] <johnny> yay..
[20:39] <Lns> I'd rather just fix my issue than try a time consuming workaround ;)
[20:40] <johnny> sounds like fixing your issue is going to be time consuming
[20:40] <Lns> it has been
[20:40] <johnny> perhaps even more so
[20:40] <Lns> i'd still rather spend my time on fixing it
[20:40] <johnny> flash in itself is broken
[20:40] <Lns> ugh...flash is fine johnny :) it's just the launching of firefox that's my issue
[20:41] <johnny> i have problems with flash. damn thing eats up all the cpu
[20:41] <johnny> had to kill it
[20:41] <Lns> sorry :) works great for me, even with 35 users on it
[20:41] <Lns> what version you using?
[20:41] <johnny> whatever is in ubuntu
[20:41] <johnny> newest
[20:42] <Lns> what's your server hardware? what's the sites you're going to?
[20:43] <johnny> i don't pay attention to what folks are doing on the pcs really
[20:43] <johnny> i just know what i see in the process list
[20:43] <johnny> it's just a standard dual core with 2gb ram
[20:43] <johnny> not enterprise grade of any sort
[20:43] <Lns> johnny: you're running a small inet cafe right?
[20:43] <johnny> being that i only have 4 terminals
[20:43] <johnny> but it does run the point of sale system too
[20:43] <johnny> and play music
[20:44] <Lns> k
[20:44] <Lns> well what i've always done is manually drop the flash plugin in /usr/share/firefox-3.0/plugins instead of using the ubuntu packages
[20:44] <Lns> since i used to have issues, this is the best/easiest way to upgrade from adobe anyway, imho
[20:45] <Lns> johnny: you're using flashplugin-nonfree?
[20:45] <johnny> i was
[20:45] <johnny> we don't have sound anyways
[20:45] <johnny> so it's not that big of a deal
[20:46] <Lns> ok.. :p
[20:46] <Lns> so you just wanted to vent, eh?
[20:46] <Lns> hehe
[20:46] <johnny> irritated at adobe
[20:48] <Lns> join the club! :p
[20:51] <Lns> So it looks like gnome-watchdog is cleaning up pretty well at my test-sites
[20:51] <johnny> my folks never logout, so i haven't bothered with it
[20:51] <johnny> i just leave em up all day
[20:51] <johnny> and then run a script
[20:52] <johnny> at the end of the day
[20:52] <Lns> mainly gnome-panel, gconfd-2, bonobo-activati
[20:52] <Lns> johnny: a script to do what?
[20:52] <johnny> a loop on all members of group terminal
[20:52] <johnny> terminals*
[20:53] <johnny> pkill -u $user
[20:53] <johnny> umount /home/$user/.gvfs
[20:53] <johnny>  copy server keys to /home/$user
[20:53] <sbalneav> Is anyone else getting emails from Nicholas Kendell everytime they post to edubuntu-users?
[20:53] <johnny> oh.. forgot the rm -rf /home/$users/.
[20:54] <johnny> before the server key copying
[20:54] <johnny> that runs on a cron every night
[20:54] <johnny> that way when folks close down the store
[20:54] <johnny> they don'th ave to remember to logout
[20:54] <johnny> just power em off
[20:56] <johnny>  gvfs irritates me
[20:56] <johnny> when it doesn't let go when killed
[20:56] <johnny> lsof always complians
[20:56] <johnny> :(
[20:58] <Lns> sbalneav: yes i am
[20:58] <sbalneav> ok
[20:58] <sbalneav> I'll give it a couple of days.  If it doesn't stop, I'll contact the list admin.
[20:59] <Lns> cool
[21:09] <johnny> transport endpoint not connected..
[21:09]  * johnny kicks it
[22:01] <DrX> anyone know of a good FREE cross platform (lin&win) email client that, unlike Thunderbird, has no database size limit, or at least a larger than 6GB limit?
[22:02] <johnny> i didn't know it had a limit
[22:03] <johnny> you're in the wrong channel tho.. try something more general
[22:03] <johnny> i wonder if claws  is cross platform..
[22:05] <DrX> y, thunderbird 2 has a nasty 4.81GB database size limit
[22:06] <johnny> what error does it say?
[22:06] <johnny> in case i run into that..
[22:06] <johnny> i use imap for mail anyways
[22:07] <sbalneav> Yeah, same here.
[22:07] <Goosemoose> i have one screen that pops up when doing preseed pxe install that says the 'selected device already contains logical volumes'. I thought that this would take care of it, but it doesn't: d-i partman-auto/purge_lvm_from_device boolean true
[22:07] <sbalneav> Personally, I'd say if you've got more than 4 gigs of mail in one folder, you need some sub folders.
[22:07] <Goosemoose> any idea what im missing?
[22:07] <Goosemoose> no ones in the ubuntu-server room
[22:08] <DrX> no,it's the whole database, not 1 folder
[22:08] <johnny> where did you find out about this limit?
[22:09] <DrX> ran into it, looked it up, it's a fact, man
[22:11] <sbalneav> I've never run into it myself.
[22:11] <sbalneav> But then again, I mostly use mutt
[22:11] <DrX> oh, it hurts, it hurts
[22:11] <DrX> that work in WIN?
[22:11] <sbalneav> No idea, I haven't used windows in a long time.
[22:12] <sbalneav> mutt's a text based client
[22:12] <sbalneav> runs on the console or in a xterm
[22:12] <sbalneav> might run under cygwin or the like.
[22:16] <sbalneav> DrX: According to this, looks like you can: http://www.geocities.com/win32mutt/win32.html
[22:16] <sbalneav> Of course, it's not a graphical mail reader.
[22:19] <sbalneav> DrX: "There is no known limit on the number of folders. The maximum size of a folder is 4GB unless the file system limits the maximum file size to a lower value."
[22:21] <sbalneav> So, it's not total, just 4 gig per folder.  Could you split up some folders?  If you gave us a clue as to why you have so much data, we might be able to suggest something else.
[22:22] <sbalneav> Goosemoose: Did piping to /dev/null fix the other problem?
[22:22] <DrX> i'm going to try that, but I think it's 4GB per account, not folder
[22:23] <Goosemoose> sbalneav, it worked on testing from the terminal i havent tried reimaging first
[22:23] <sbalneav> Not according to the Limits page I read on the knowledge base.
[22:23] <Goosemoose> i wanted to find the other answer before i started a 30 min imaging
[22:23] <sbalneav> heh
[22:23] <sbalneav> Not sure of your other question.
[22:23] <sbalneav> Well, I'm off for home.  Be on later tonight.
[22:23] <Goosemoose> ok im just going to runn it then
[22:24] <Goosemoose> ok thanks for the help
[22:24] <sbalneav> np
[23:26]  * LaserJock staggers in after 2.5 hrs of General Chemistry for Scientists and Engineers I
[23:32]  * Lns begs LaserJock not to blow up the chan
[23:32] <LaserJock> one wouldn't think a "let's find the mass and density of 60 pennies" would be so tiring
[23:33] <LaserJock> although much of it was the ~45 minutes spent in the computer lab showing them how to use Excel
[23:34] <Lns> heh
[23:34] <Lns> I've found it generally enjoyable to not broadcast your computer knowledge to random people ;)
[23:40] <LaserJock> I'm supposed to be teaching them, I'm sort of obligated ;-)
[23:41] <Lns> oh.
[23:41] <Lns> :p


[16:28] <Raju_> Hi everybody this is natarajan, new to the ubuntu manual group
[18:18] <PatrickDickey> Did I miss the meeting? (I haven't checked the time yet. :S )
[18:18] <carsten_g> Hi Patrick
[18:18] <carsten_g> No, it is tomorrow. :-)
[18:25] <PatrickDickey> LOL That figures.
[18:25] <PatrickDickey> It's just an introduction meeting for new authors, right?
[18:28] <carsten_g> Yes
[18:28] <carsten_g> Do you join?
[18:33] <PatrickDickey> I will if I'm awake. I'm working third shift (7 pm to 5 am) tomorrow, so I'll be sleeping around the time of the meeting.
[18:38] <carsten_g> Oh I see. Don't let ring the alarm for the meeting, the sleep is more important. :-)
[18:43] <PatrickDickey> It'll all depend on how late I stay up tonight, I guess. I went to bed early enough last night, that I'm up already.
[18:56] <PatrickDickey> Carsten, off hand, do you remember the defaults for the texlive installation?  For the symlinks? Tejas Kale posted to the mailing list that his installer doesn't have any defaults listed when he goes to create the symlinks (Option O then L).
[19:06] <carsten_g> one moment, I'll have a look
[19:07] <godbyk> It's strange that it isn't showing the defaults.
[19:07] <godbyk> I think they should all be subdirs of /usr/local by default
[19:07] <godbyk> (/usr/local/bin for binaries, /usr/local/lib for libraries, etc.)
[19:08] <godbyk> There's also a way to get the symlinks created after the installation is finished, but I'd have to look it up again. tlmgr knows how.
[19:08] <godbyk> From his email it sounds like he's already removed the first installation, though. :(
[19:09] <carsten_g> I see the defaults
[19:10] <carsten_g> /usr/local/bin for binaries
[19:10] <carsten_g> /usr/local/man for manpages
[19:10] <carsten_g> /usr/local/info for info
[19:12] <godbyk> Does anyone else find Launchpad to be confusing or is it just me?
[19:13] <carsten_g> No, you are not alone. :-)
[19:13] <godbyk> Thanks, carsten_g. :)
[19:14] <carsten_g> But I think, it would be better, if Launchpad would be translatable
[19:14] <godbyk> At this point, it'd be immensely helpful if they'd just put little edit buttons next to every field they show. That way I don't have to go digging through myriads of links to figure out where that setting is at.
[19:14] <godbyk> Launchpad can't be translated?  Really?!
[19:16] <carsten_g> No, as far as I know.
[19:16] <godbyk> Somehow, the oneiric branch has a review 'team': https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/oneiric
[19:17] <carsten_g> See https://translations.launchpad.net/launchpad
[19:17] <godbyk> Okay, to fix the symlinks using tlmgr (I found an old email I sent):  sudo /usr/local/texlive/2012/bin/x86_64-linux/tlmgr path add
[19:18] <godbyk> (might have to change the x86_64-linux bit to match your system architecture)
[19:18] <godbyk> carsten_g: That's disappointing.
[19:19] <carsten_g> There are some bugs for that, but I see no development in this direction, see https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/3896
[19:19] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 3896 in launchpad "Launchpad itself is not translatable in Launchpad" [Low,Triaged]
[19:19] <godbyk> Heh.. classy.
[19:22] <carsten_g> Hey, how or what is manualbot?
[19:22] <PatrickDickey> I figured out what Tejas was doing. He hit "O", and it doesn't show the defaults. But, when he hits "L", it will.
[19:23] <godbyk> PatrickDickey: Ah! That makes sense.
[19:23] <godbyk> carsten_g: It's an IRC bot. It can look up bug summaries and other useful tidbits.
[19:24] <carsten_g> ah, I see.
[19:25] <godbyk> I think it may know some stuff about LaTeX, too, but I don't recall.
[19:25] <carsten_g> Is there a link with explanations of that bot?
[19:27] <godbyk> carsten_g: I don't have one right off. It's a supybot, though.
[19:27] <godbyk> I should track down its owner. (I can't remember who it was that set it up now..)
[19:27] <godbyk> Hmm.. this doesn't bode well..
[19:28] <godbyk> I updated all the TeX Live packages last night and now I can't build the manual.
[19:28] <PatrickDickey> You can get some minor information by messaging it. /msg manualbot help will give you a start.
[19:28] <godbyk> It looks like xindy might hate me.
[19:28]  * PatrickDickey ruh roh... looks at his texlive installation
[19:29] <PatrickDickey> I'm updating it right now with the 2012 installation.
[19:30]  * PatrickDickey has a long ways to go before he knows if it's trashed...  7:02:15. I'm on 16 of 2520 right now.
[19:34] <carsten_g> Huuh, yesterday and today I had the same "Problem" with TeX Live 2012
[19:34] <carsten_g>  :-))
[19:35] <carsten_g> First I tried the upstream installation and forgot the symlinks^^
[19:36] <carsten_g> So I deleted it completely and tried the quantal backports.
[19:36] <carsten_g> This works now , xindy too. :-)
[19:37] <PatrickDickey> So it might be something with the upstream version?
[19:37] <carsten_g> Well, I think my problem was the forgotten symlinks.
[19:38] <carsten_g> I did not test it with them again.
[19:38] <PatrickDickey> Gottcha.
[19:38] <PatrickDickey> There's a gui for the installer, right? I think you were the one that mentioned it to John (c7p)
[19:39] <carsten_g> Yes
[19:40] <carsten_g> Who knows, why these symlinks are not activated by default... :-/
[19:41] <PatrickDickey> It's probably something that they forgot to do (or have a good reason for) and while everyone's annoyed by it, no one bothers to point it out to them.
[19:44] <godbyk> Well, you could set the installation directory to /usr instead of /usr/local and then you wouldn't need the symlinks.
[19:45] <godbyk> I tried rewriting the instructions a while back to make it clearer that you needed to create the symlinks but people still seem to miss that note.
[19:45] <godbyk> I'm not sure what to do about it. Are the instructions unclear? Are people not reading the instructions?
[19:48] <carsten_g> well, it will be the last thing.
[19:49] <godbyk> carsten_g: I'm going to work on updating the install-pkgs.sh script to check the tlmgr symlinks and also work with the TL 2012 PPA packages. I just wanted to give you a heads-up.
[19:50] <carsten_g> I think, this is a very important point (the symlinks) and for that the corresponding section should be more dominant on the website
[19:50] <godbyk> carsten_g: Suggestions on how to improve the instructions?
[19:51] <godbyk> brb
[19:51] <carsten_g> And the installation will start and finish without problems. If you forget the symlinks, you will notice that when it is to late...
[19:51] <carsten_g> Well, maybe there can be such a warning symbol, as we have it in the manual.
[19:53] <carsten_g> Yes, this would be a good help, if the install-pkgs.sh script can detect and fix the missing symlinks
[19:53] <PatrickDickey> I just sent off an email to the tug mailing list asking about the symlinks. It'll be interesting to see what reason they have.
[19:54] <carsten_g> Great, please post the response on our list
[19:54] <PatrickDickey> I'll do that. I probably won't get anything until tomorrow morning. I set my subscription to a daily digest.
[21:16] <carsten_g> godbyk: are you still online?
[21:17] <godbyk> carsten_g: yep
[21:19] <carsten_g> I found an issue which may affect all translations...^^
[21:19] <carsten_g> DId you already compile a translated version?
[21:22] <carsten_g> Then you will see at 6 positions in the document a straight sign (looks like a square with an cross included), for example on the blank page before chapter 2 "The Ubuntu desktop"
[21:23] <godbyk> Which edition and language are you looking at?
[21:24] <carsten_g> I found out, that we have six tex files which start with an BOM (Byte order mark), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte_order_mark
[21:24] <carsten_g> ... German version precise-e2
[21:24] <carsten_g> but this affects other languages too.
[21:24] <godbyk> Those are still around? I manually removed a few of those that I found. i must've missed some.
[21:26] <carsten_g> Yes, look in the pot file, line 2251
[21:27] <carsten_g> There you see the list of affected files.
[21:29] <godbyk> it looks like there are 6 files that contain U+FEFF:
[21:30] <carsten_g> yep
[21:30] <godbyk> software-management/software-management.tex:1:% Chapter 5 - Software and Packaging/Software Management
[21:30] <godbyk> ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu-desktop.tex:1:%Chapter 2 - c7p, hannie
[21:30] <godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex:1:%written by Luke Jennings<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:30] <godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/linuxaltapps.tex:1:%proposed location Chapter 3
[21:30] <godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/readingcomposingemail.tex:1:%Author: Che Dean
[21:30] <godbyk> working-with-ubuntu/microblogging.tex:1:% written by Luke Jennings<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[21:33] <carsten_g> I think we should fix this and update the pot file again on Launchpad
[21:35] <carsten_g> Because you get an extra translation entry for that sign, see https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/precise-e2/+pots/ubuntu-manual/de/255/+translate
[21:37] <carsten_g> Hi Nautu
[21:39] <godbyk> carsten_g: I'll do that. It'll probably take a day or two for the updated .pot to make it through the translation queue, though.
[21:40] <carsten_g> ok
[21:41] <carsten_g> The question is, how can we avoid this in the future?
[21:41] <godbyk> The next step is for us to figure out who put the BOMs there and what editor they were using. Then we can help them (and others) ensure that their editors aren't inserting BOMs.
[21:42] <carsten_g> Yes
[21:43] <carsten_g> And can we make a check in the Makefile which look for the BOMs?
[21:45] <godbyk> carsten_g: We can add a check to the Makefile, yes. I'll do that.
[21:45] <godbyk> carsten_g: As for preventing it, we should ensure that everyone has their editors set to the proper settings (i.e., not to insert BOMs into our .tex files).
[21:46] <godbyk> I've uploaded the new .pot file and pushed all the changes to bzr.
[21:46] <carsten_g> Yes, that's right
[21:47] <carsten_g> I use gedit, and see not such a setting...
[21:47] <godbyk> Normally, the BOM gets inserted into UTF-16-encoded files.
[21:47] <carsten_g> Has your editor such a setting?
[21:48] <godbyk> But some editors may include it with UTF-8, too.
[21:48] <godbyk> The setting is likely just the file encoding when you go to file > save as..
[21:49] <godbyk> it looks like most of the BOMs were inserted in the oneiric repository.
[21:49] <godbyk> natty only has a couple of them.
[21:49] <godbyk> but oneiric has a dozen.
[21:50] <godbyk> maverick doesn't have any.
[21:50] <godbyk> I misspoke.. oneiric only has half a dozen.
[21:50] <godbyk> (I had copies of the files so they were counted twice.)
[21:51] <godbyk> You might look in the oneiric repository at the working-with-ubuntu/viewing-and-editing-photos.tex file. Look at the diffs at each revision and see when the BOM was introduced.
[21:54] <carsten_g> A I see, Rick Fosburgh has done it in rev 48
[21:54] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/48 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 48
[21:55] <carsten_g> be quiet manualbot :-)
[22:17] <carsten_g> So, I say good night
[22:18] <carsten_g> See you tomorrow evening in the meeting.


[06:14] <eagles0513875_> hey Mirv  Israel asked if you are going to take care of getting his work merged
[06:19] <Mirv> eagles0513875_: so the "merging" would be "uploading", and I can't do that. I can only continue reviewing his changes (but he hasn't done any new to the branch)
[06:49] <zequence> OvenWerk1: Yeah, I posted that bug to you before, asking if you have had any usb poblems, but I suppose you haven't (usb1.1)
[06:51] <zequence> For no reason, waking up on release day, I hear this in my head - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFPwm0e_K98
[06:52] <zequence> (Also sprach Zarathustra)
[06:53] <elfy> lucky you - I always wake with this in my head :p https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqUIDlQUj9Y
[06:54] <elfy> zequence: you'll be pleased to know that I don't see the ibus indicator in 32bit this morning :)
[06:54] <zequence> elfy: That's a relief :)
[06:55] <elfy> just doing an install with it for you
[06:56] <zequence> OvenWerk1: I'll ask the kernel devs. We can't have diffs between -generic and -lowlatency, or we have to start maintaining it again. It's one and the same kernel, so all changes go into master
[06:56] <elfy> zequence: once this is all done and dusted you are going to need a specific install testcase - no-one else has a pick audio/video etc option
[06:57] <zequence> elfy: Yes, there are a lot of things we could do to improve testing :P
[06:59] <elfy> bug 1308877 and I've even assigned myself to it ;)
[07:00] <elfy> zequence: well I will be about more this coming cycle if you want help :)
[07:16] <elfy> zequence: and it didn't sneak in ibus so I passed it
[08:11] <zequence> elfy: I almost don't dare to listen too much on that music you linked to, so I don't end up having it in my head all the time
[08:11] <zequence> Cool stuff though
[08:12] <elfy> ha ha ha
[08:13]  * elfy has been listening to it for years and years
[08:15] <zequence> breakfest, coffee, and then, zsync
[08:17] <elfy> I'd zsync, breakfast, coffee - it was REALLY slow earlier
[08:19] <zequence> I'm at zsync already, and no worries, I already got one ISO down
[08:38] <zequence> elfy: I still have the wrong keyboard layout in the login screen, but able to change it
[08:40] <zequence> After doing it once, it stays
[08:51] <zequence> I also get the wrong language. I chose English, but with Swedish kb layout. I got Swedish language setting and US kb layout
[08:51] <zequence> The wrong way around
[09:01] <elfy> zequence: I did see talk in -quality of a few language issues - not sure if those are what you're seeing
[09:01] <elfy> I never got affected at login screen - that was always correct here
[09:01] <zequence> ok
[09:02] <elfy> can't see anything on the image tracker list that looks similar though
[09:02] <elfy> s/bug list
[09:02] <zequence> since you probably have the same kb and language setting, you should have both right in the session too
[09:02] <elfy> yea
[09:12] <zequence> elfy: After installation, are you able to shut down normally? I haven't tried with a real machine yet.
[09:13] <zequence> From the live seesion, that is
[09:14] <elfy> yea - all that worked fine here
[11:28] <cub> hi all
[11:29] <zequence> cub: hi
[11:29] <zequence> Just about mark us as ready, but that doesn't mean one can't stop testing :)
[11:30] <cub> hehe
[11:30] <cub> I haven't had a chance to run tests since beta2
[11:30] <cub> though I'm running a 14.04 32 bit on my usb stick here
[11:31] <cub> but I reckon I won't get rid of the old bugs until I reinstall?
[11:32] <zequence> cub: Which one, the ibus thing?
[11:32] <zequence> It's enough to purge the ibus package
[11:32] <cub> I did that, but still have the keyboard issue on the login. Also two clocks in my bar
[11:33] <cub> as well as bluetooth which I removed weeks ago but was pulled in yesterday again..weird
[11:33] <zequence> cub: You have unity-control-center installed from before
[11:33] <zequence> also, gnome-control-center
[11:34] <zequence> bluetooth was added since we added blueman
[11:34] <cub> unity-control-center said it would be removed when I uninstalled stuff just now
[11:34] <cub> aha, i removed blueman again, but should probably done a purge
[11:35] <zequence> Well, then. I feel all done. Release notes - partly copied from Ubuntu and Xubuntu, with our own additions https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
[11:36] <zequence> Just the wait to publish remains
[11:39] <cub> I don't know if you want to mention that the installation now supports both braille and speech?
[11:40] <zequence> cub: Ah, yes
[11:40] <zequence> cub: Feel free to add to it. I'm heading home, will take a look later
[11:40] <cub> right, it's on the wiki
[11:53] <cub> bah I give up. I've logged in on the wiki 5 times, and the last time after editing and pressing save it went back to no being logged in and changes scrapped.
[13:39] <eagles0513875_> hey Mirv
[13:40] <eagles0513875_> Mirv: included you in an email maybe you can explain the issues with the current fixed package of lmms please on the mailing list
[13:47] <Mirv> eagles0513875_: not seeing e-mail, but I've responded to two Israel's e-mails. I really think the best place to discuss the packaging is the bug report and the merge request.
[13:51] <eagles0513875_> mirv i have the whole mailing list eating me alive as they dont seem to understand what the current issue is with the current package
[13:59] <zequence> eagles0513875_: There's no hurry to fix it now, since release is just hours away now, and nothing more is to be changed before release
[13:59] <zequence> eagles0513875_: As soon as the package is ready, someone can just file an SRU bug for it, and get it uploaded withing the next coming weeks
[14:00] <eagles0513875_> any chance you could mention that on the bug zequence
[14:01] <eagles0513875_> as everyone is panicked about getting it sorted asap
[14:01] <eagles0513875_> i thought we had until the end of the month for release
[14:02] <Mirv> there seems to be quite a lot of fear and uncertainty, but that must be because people are not familiar with how distributions work etc
[14:03] <Mirv> as said, there's no hurry really, since SRU it is anyway
[14:04] <Mirv> people may fear also because they think SRU:s don't happen (users get the feeling when their favorite software don't get upraded), but it's really only a question of doing the update and following the process steps, there's nothing particularly scary or problematic about those
[14:04] <Mirv> there just needs to be checks in place, since it's available to millions of users
[14:12] <zequence> I commented on the bug. Proposed to patch the current package in the repo so that the experimental features disappear, and just increment the version to 0ubuntu2
[14:19] <eagles0513875_> zequence: thing is we already have a new package built from the right tarball but its become 1.0.1
[14:19] <eagles0513875_> which Mirv  mentioned would be incorrect
[14:20] <zequence> eagles0513875_: The package is not doable, which is why it needs to be fixed
[14:20] <zequence> It's not ready
[14:20] <eagles0513875_> zequence: i understand
[14:20] <zequence> If it were, it would be in the repos now
[14:21] <eagles0513875_> i dont know if its worth doign as you said and patch out the stuff that shouldnt be there but doing that there is still an issue of it being from the wrong branch and hence still unstable
[14:22] <zequence> The diff in the new package is mostly text, not code. Patching the existing package in the repo would not be a lot of work, if someone is used to do that
[14:22] <zequence> And, no need to change something that is not causing errors. Just the parts that are
[14:22] <zequence> My estimate, from reading the diff was that not much needed to be changed
[14:27] <zequence> The positive side of this is, lmms 1.0 is in. It won't go away, and it can be fixed at any time
[14:37] <holstein> zequence: i didnt imly it did
[14:37] <holstein> imple*
[14:37] <holstein> imply*
[14:38] <zequence> holstein: I think we might have cross written a bit there :)
[14:38] <holstein> maybe
[15:34] <zequence> ttoine: Hi
[15:38] <ttoine> hello
[15:38] <ttoine> i am downloading 14.04 on oxford university mirror
[15:41] <ttoine> zequence, ready to officially download ?
[17:25] <holstein> info lmms saucy
[17:25] <holstein> !info lmms saucy
[17:26] <holstein> !info lmms
[17:27] <holstein> !info lmms trusty
[18:15] <holstein> zequence: question.. do you have access to the website?
[18:18] <zequence> holstein: Yep. And so do you :)
[18:19] <holstein> zequence: i'll edit if you remind me how..
[18:19] <zequence> holstein: Is there a mistake somewhere?
[18:19] <holstein> http://ubuntustudio.org/download/
[18:19] <zequence> holstein: You can login from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFPwm0e_K98
[18:19] <holstein> has it been updated for 14.04? and im just not refreshed?
[18:20] <zequence> I haven't seen the release announcement yet
[18:20] <holstein> !isitout
[18:20] <zequence> Ah, ok. I was just out
[18:20] <holstein> it just happened.
[18:20] <zequence> Been doing this for a few days, so it's not like I've forgotten
[18:21] <holstein> :)
[18:21] <holstein> ours may not be hot hyet
[18:21] <holstein> yet*
[18:22] <zequence> they should all be out, once the release announcement comes
[18:22] <zequence> they wait until all is mature for download, even if the ISOs are all out
[18:22] <holstein> i may be in the wrong place.. http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/trusty/release/
[18:23] <zequence> i can't see any ISOs out yet
[18:25] <zequence> Seems like they've changed their habit. Ubuntu has it's own url for releases now
[18:25] <zequence> Ah, not it's old
[18:26] <zequence> Ok, they're working on it
[18:27] <zequence> I'm going to prepare a release announcement. There's no particular hurry, really. Just that we do it soon
[18:27] <holstein> zequence: nah.. not hurry.. just wanting to get the links hot and all that before anyone notices
[18:34] <zequence> holstein: the download links themselves already work
[18:34] <zequence> holstein: However, the final release is just a copy of the latest current
[18:34] <zequence> so, which ever one you want
[18:35] <zequence> the download links work, even if you can't see them on the page
[18:35] <zequence> so, if you take an old one, an just mod it, it should work
[18:35] <holstein> i'll try them and make sure..
[18:35] <holstein> zequence: remind me how to edit the site?
[18:35] <holstein> that youtube link is not doing it for me ;)
[18:35] <zequence> holstein: I'll do that. I'm preparing a release announcement anyway
[18:36] <zequence> youtube link?
[18:37] <holstein> 14:19 < zequence> holstein: You can login from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFPwm0e_K98
[18:47] <zequence> holstein: Hehe
[18:47] <holstein> zequence: i got in.. i'll chip away at the update, if you like
[18:47] <zequence> holstein: http://ubuntustudio.org/wp-admin
[18:48] <zequence> holstein: Sure. I'm still working on the release announcement as we speak
[18:48] <holstein> ok.. cheers
[18:48] <holstein> i'll try not to break anything :)
[18:51] <holstein> zequence: question. we have 13.10 and 12.04 listed.. should we just list 14.04 now?
[18:55] <zequence> holstein: No, we can keep listing 12.04 as the old LTS, since it's supported for another year at least
[18:55] <holstein> OK
[18:56] <holstein> zequence: but, just 12.04 and 14.04? correct?
[18:56] <zequence> holstein: Yeah
[18:57] <holstein> i backed up the text from the site so i dont break anything.. im working on checking links nad editing
[18:59] <holstein> zequence: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Trusty/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio is where you put the notes?
[19:00] <zequence> holstein: almost .. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
[19:00] <holstein> of course..
[19:00] <holstein> thanks
[19:10] <holstein> zequence: additional question..
[19:10] <holstein> my torrent links and sums are 404'ing
[19:10] <holstein> do you have a better link?
[19:10] <holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/12.04.4/release/SHA256SUMS for example
[19:12] <zequence> holstein: Might be we need to wait for those. If the download links work, I'm ok with that for now
[19:12] <holstein> zequence: i'll try and comment out the broken stuff temporarily
[19:13] <zequence> holstein: Or, I just wait with the announcement
[19:14] <zequence> holstein: They're starting to get populated now
[19:14] <zequence> the download pages, I mean
[19:15] <zequence> checksums are up
[19:15] <zequence> ..or were
[19:17] <zequence> well, I'm going to chill for a while. I'll check in periodically. Once the pages look good, I do the release announcement
[19:17] <holstein> zequence: if you're ok with it, i'll leave it for now
[19:17] <holstein> but, if they are 404'ing, or wrong, i'll address it if you want
[19:21] <zequence> holstein: Just leave it :)
[19:21] <holstein> zequence: ok.. i think i got them edited properly to what they should become.. the direct links and release notes works..
[19:29] <holstein> zequence: all is well :)
[20:14] <zequence> holstein: Great. Just got back from the store for the second time (forgot some stuff there). Going to publish announcements shortly
[20:37] <zequence> Ok, I'm over and out. Will just check in from time to time until after easter.
[20:46] <zequence> ..then the new cycle beings, muhahahaa
[20:50]  * OvenWerk1 got home just in time to miss it...
[21:50] <zequence> eagles0513875: I'm done with the release. If no one has done anything with the package by the end of next week, I might take some time to look at it.
[23:21] <eagles0513875> zequence: israel is working on it