 Yes. I saw something like that on YouTube. A guy wanted to build a sleeper computer packed with insane specs but in a case from the 90's
 @Ivoriesablaze
 ?
 Gimp has a snap?
 I think he called you a gimp
 ... that wouldn't be inaccurate
 @Ivoriesablaze, I know, just a joke
 Lol
 It was funny that I made all my twitch graphics with gimp after having knee surgery
 I had realized the irony of that before even opening the program
 It has a snap and flatpak I think
 http://www.doogee.cc/detail/mix-series-bezel-less-smartphone/122
 $200 about
 https://imgur.com/gallery/l8otY
[20:31] <maxolasersquad> You can't download from the browser on an iPhone?
 @maxolasersquad, No. iOS does not allow downloading apps outside of the App Store
[20:34] <maxolasersquad> Oh, app downloads.
[20:34] <maxolasersquad> Yeah, I love my f-droid store.
 The heck kind of list are you on lol
 The gnome engagement list
 Engagement?


[02:26] <snap-l> Good evening
[11:32] <Wolfger> morning
[11:33] <rick_h_> morning
[11:49] <snap-l> Good morning
[11:49] <brousch> no
[11:50] <brousch> 4AM gotta go potty yell makes ben a tired boy
[11:50] <Wolfger> heh
[11:51] <Wolfger> I woke up at 2:30 thinking it was time to get up, but it was just the low-battery beep from my work cell
[11:51] <Wolfger> Then I woke up at 4:45 being positive the alarm was going off, though it shut off before I could turn it off....
[11:52] <Wolfger> then at 5 the real alarm went off, and I realized that the sound at 4:45 wasn't my alarm, it was my ringtone
[11:52] <Wolfger> some unrecognized number called me before 5 AM.  The global jam event is this Saturday, right?
[12:11] <snap-l> That's correct.
[12:11] <snap-l> 12-5
[12:12] <snap-l> 12-5pm
[12:12] <snap-l> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
[12:12] <CrusaderAD> can anyone drop in, say just to "observe"?
[12:13] <snap-l> CrusaderAD: Sure, if you wish, but we'd love for you to participate
[12:13] <snap-l> There's no pressure
[12:13] <CrusaderAD> I'm a developer but mostly for web technologies, but I'm interested in getting involved with the local Ubuntu community
[12:13] <snap-l> We'll likely be trying out live images of oneiric
[12:14] <snap-l> Also John Gruber will be presenting his project "Lernid", and doing a mini-sprint with it
[12:14] <snap-l> Feel free to RSVP here: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-michigan/1090/detail/
[12:15] <snap-l> (note: not everyone who is coming has RSVPed, so don't let that alarm you. :) )
[12:15] <CrusaderAD> cool, thanks for the info!
[12:15] <snap-l> no problem.  It's not the way I'd do it."
[12:41] <rick_h_> "How many times have you done pyramid apps before? oh right...none..."
 it's bad...dont' k
[12:41] <rick_h_> "but I want to..." then fine, come back when you get bit with broken migrations
[12:42] <rick_h_> he's got to convince me his idea is the better way when he's never used the damn tools
[12:42] <rick_h_> a nice "fine, go do it your way" never works
[13:04] <snap-l> You could introduce a bit of the occult into why it's done your way
[13:04] <snap-l> "because if you don't, a demon will come for your immortal soul"
[13:05] <snap-l> Or, "God punishes those who break the build, and God is busy with other things, so I'm picking up the slack"
[13:06] <brousch> i like that one
[13:06] <nullspace> a deamon already comes for your scripts, why not your soul
[13:06] <rick_h_> you have to have a build to break the build
[13:07] <rick_h_> getting close to "JUST TRY IT DAMMIT!"
[13:07] <brousch> how often do you meet him in person?
[13:07] <nullspace> oh is rick talking about his co-worker again?
[13:07] <rick_h_> brousch: so far just once at pycon
[13:07] <brousch> nullspace: either that or his kid?
[13:08] <rick_h_> hah
[13:08] <snap-l> brousch: I think Michael would listen better
[13:08] <nullspace> nah rick_h_'s kid only uses vim
[13:10] <brousch> sometimes i want to code up learning games for my son, but by the time i have a game concept he's already gained the skill it would've taught him
[13:11] <snap-l> brousch: I can relate
[13:11] <brousch> i think of an alphabet game, and he's already got it down
[13:11] <snap-l> You need RAD
[13:11] <snap-l> also frequent input from the customer
[13:12] <brousch> spelling games might last a while if i can plug in bigger words
[13:12] <snap-l> Hey, teach your kid how to scrum. :)
[13:12] <brousch> i don't know how to scrum
[13:12] <snap-l> "Dadda, I wan' da kopuuter ble nargle flop "
[13:13] <snap-l> "heeeeeeeee"
[13:21] <brousch> someone i follow on twitter named their kid "Titan"
[13:21] <brousch> that's a lot to live up to
[13:25] <nullspace> bah my cousin who studied sociology decided to name her kid Odin
[13:25] <ColonelPanic001> seems odd they'd hate their kid that much right at birth.
[13:25] <rick_h_> yay for hacked linux.org ugh
[13:25] <ColonelPanic001> "enjoy a lifetime of explaining every time, you little turd!"
[13:27] <nullspace> brousch: does that mean that their grand children will eventuall over throw their parents
[13:27] <brousch> yeah, really setting him up for a bad death
[13:27]  * ColonelPanic001 listens to openmetalcast to wake up (and catch up)
[13:29] <brousch> snap-l: what's the recommended Pyramid hacking music?
[13:29] <brousch> if you say Genesis i will kick you in the nuts
[13:31] <nullspace> hacking a Pyramid? I think I missed something here
[13:32] <rick_h_> today the hacking music is BB King: Complete Collection
[13:32] <brousch> is that jazz?
[13:32] <nullspace> mine is RTPN
[13:33] <ColonelPanic001> The obvious band to listen to while working on Pyramids is Nile.
[13:35] <rick_h_> brousch: blues man, BB King...
[13:35] <nullspace> could listen to Ra or Anubus tii
[13:42] <snap-l> brousch: I'm not sure. I haven't hacked much in Pyramid
[13:42] <snap-l> Maybe some Iron Maiden: Powerslave?
[13:44] <nullspace> brousch: pyramidlinux? as in distro?
[13:45] <rick_h_> gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:45] <snap-l> nullspace: Pyramid, as in the Pylons framework.
[13:45] <snap-l> Python web framework
[13:45] <snap-l> rick_h_: that good?
[13:45]  * snap-l tries to talk the channel down
[13:45] <rick_h_> I'm not going to make it to the end of the day...I'm just not
[13:45] <snap-l> What's the colorscheme of choice now?
[13:46] <rick_h_> I'm back to running the updated lucius
[13:46] <snap-l> I want someting with a black background
[13:46] <snap-l> gray on gray just isn't cutting it for me.
[13:47] <rick_h_> try darkdevel ?
[13:47] <rick_h_> dammit
[13:47] <rick_h_> (9:05) Rick: it's a python module
[13:48] <rick_h_> (9:45) NCDude: I see how fabfile is now a package
[13:50] <brousch> google chrome has added an icon to my taskbar
[13:50] <brousch> must be part of the offline stuff
[13:51] <rick_h_> it's google chat
[13:54] <CrusaderAD> do you guys favor chrome or chromium?
[13:55]  * ColonelPanic001 uses Chromium
[13:56] <snap-l> I use Chrome
[13:57] <brousch> chrome
[13:57] <nullspace> chrome
[13:58] <CrusaderAD> really? just cause of the latest and greatest releases?
[14:00] <ColonelPanic001> they hate freedom
[14:17] <Wolfger> If I were to have children, I'd want two boys, and name them Thor and Loki....
[14:17] <Wolfger> then I'd always know which one to blame
[14:19] <CrusaderAD> That would result in Ragnarok
[14:19] <Wolfger> Thor, of course, would grow up to be a doctor, and change his legal name....
[14:22] <nullspace> na he would become a meterologist, of course
[14:35] <ColonelPanic001> "critical stop" on Club Metal #4 made me lol
[14:42] <snap-l> ColonelPanic001: :)
[14:50] <brousch> I'm going to make my troublesome PDF file converter a real project: https://sourceforge.net/p/pdfserenitynow
[14:51] <rick_h_>  on sf?!
[14:51] <rick_h_> there's no code
[14:52] <brousch> :P
[14:52] <brousch> i just made the SF project
[14:52] <rick_h_> bah, hg, hitting downloads takes me to a different ui
[14:52] <rick_h_> wtf
[14:52] <rick_h_> gah sf fix your crap!
[14:53] <Blazeix> why sourceforge, ooc?
[14:53] <Blazeix> not that I'm judging you :)
[14:54] <rick_h_> leave that to me :P
[14:54] <rick_h_> no, was curious to check it out
[14:54] <brousch> ok, i just pushed the nasty hack script
[14:55] <snap-l> Gah, hg?
[14:55] <brousch> more TODO than code
[14:55] <brousch> what's with the hg hate?
[14:55] <brousch> ur a bunch of gits
[14:56] <snap-l> yes.
[14:57] <brousch> the end goal with this is to have a service where you can upload your crappy PDF and it will return a set of TIF and JPG to you or your destination
[14:57] <Wolfger> what, no bazaar love in the Ubuntu crowd?
[14:57] <brousch> i like the SF beta
[14:58] <brousch> allura
[14:58] <brousch> also i can get personal attention when i have issues with it
[15:02] <snap-l> brousch: Heh. :)
[15:12] <brousch> Now it has a description https://sourceforge.net/p/pdfserenitynow/home/Home/
[15:33] <brousch> rick_h_: are you thoroughly disgusted by script? ;)
[15:33] <brousch> my script
[15:48] <rick_h_> brousch: now see, if this was on github I'd fork it, turn it into a valid python package you could pip install with a command line tool to run it and do a pull request
[15:48] <brousch> heh
[15:49] <rick_h_> instead, no coolness
[15:49] <brousch> i think you can do that on SF
[15:49] <rick_h_> yea, but I'm not going to find my login, my hg cheat sheet, and figure out how sorry
[15:50] <brousch> heh
[15:50] <rick_h_> doing the python parts was enough work, figuring out the system is more
[15:50] <brousch> i was impressed with how easy it was to edit bookie docs right in github
[15:50] <rick_h_> https://github.com/mitechie/python-webpage-inliner can give you an idea how the stuff needed
[15:51] <rick_h_> I forked his script to package it and such like that
[15:52] <brousch> the setup.py?
[15:52] <rick_h_> setup.py, directory structure, etc
[15:53] <brousch> there's inliner.py in the root and in src/webpageinliner/ ?
[15:54] <rick_h_> naw, sorry, that's left over. I should remove that
[15:54] <brousch> i see, that's his original
[15:54] <rick_h_> yea
[15:54] <rick_h_> I updated it to use argparse, etc
[15:54] <rick_h_> to left a orig around while I killed it
[15:55] <brousch> very useful
[15:55] <rick_h_> yea, check out modern-package-template
[15:55] <brousch> i don't think i've ever gone as far as making something a real python package
[15:55] <rick_h_> anyway, once you do this you can sudo pip install mypackage
[15:55] <rick_h_> and then get a command line tool mypackage to run
[15:55] <rick_h_> I've started doing it for all kinds of tools so it's eaiser to script/use them
[15:55] <rick_h_> tab completion, etc
[15:58] <brousch> yeah, it makes sense
[15:58] <rick_h_> that might make a good CHC meeting thing sometime
[16:00] <brousch> if i use git, could i push to github and SF easily?
[16:01] <jrwren> someone should write software that moves any other source to github. so you can point it to sourceforge or googlecode, give it proj name and say "move to github" or "find on github" if soeone has already mirrored
[16:04] <rick_h_> brousch: yes, you can setup two remotes
[16:04] <rick_h_> and an alias that pushes to both
[16:06] <brousch> it just occurred to me that this is a perfect project for python3
[16:07] <brousch> few dependencies, and by the time i get to the web gui there should be some python3 options
[16:10] <brousch> ok, so which comes first, cloning the empty repo to create the project, or paster command to create modern-package-template?
[16:11] <brousch> i suppose clone, then create inside that dir
[16:11] <rick_h_> right
[16:11] <rick_h_> you could just clone your existing repo, do the paster command, move your files around and start fitting into place
[16:17] <brousch> i think i got that now
[16:17] <brousch> now to edit some of the boilerplate files
[16:17] <rick_h_> yep
[16:18] <brousch> and to rebuild the egg and such?
[16:18] <rick_h_> yea, so once you get setup.py happy you can python setup.py develop
[16:18] <rick_h_> to load the dev version up so it keeps up to date
[16:18] <rick_h_> python setup.py sdist will create a .tar.gz that you can pip install locally
[16:18] <brousch> ok
[16:20] <brousch> oh crap, lunch is half over
[16:37] <jrwren> jcastro: your post on the fridge has a bullet "We now have a Weekly Meeting at 1800UTC on #ayatana on Freenode IRC if you feel like hanging with us and getting organized and ask questions"  but does not say which day of week
[16:38] <jcastro> ooh
[16:38] <jcastro> fixing
[16:38] <jcastro> hah, that hasn't changed in months
[16:38] <jcastro> and no one noticed
[16:38] <jcastro> <3 attention to detail jayrwren
[16:50] <snap-l> I looked at it as well, but said "meh". ;)
[16:50] <rick_h_> snap-l: gets half a cookie, jrwren a full cookie!
[16:52] <snap-l> Meh, I don't think I deserve a cookie. :)
[17:02] <jrwren> i just read jcastro links.
[17:02] <jrwren> that is all.
[17:02] <jrwren> hrm... i think i am glad I don't work at MSFT https://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/387162426.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1314897500&Signature=S2Tu2FJpc5zwo2TgvP9GBmBQPW8%3D
[17:02] <jrwren> i don't want my office to look like that
[17:02] <snap-l> jrwren: glad someone does. ;)
[17:03] <snap-l> jrwren: Hahahahahahahahaha
[17:03] <snap-l> It keeps out the bad thoughts, though
[17:04] <snap-l> Not to mention the minimal RF interference from the computers. ;)
[17:04] <jrwren> yup.
[17:05] <snap-l> God, that reminds me of an old photo
[17:05] <snap-l> http://gallery.cinciclassic.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1171
[17:05] <snap-l> We had to wrap the newer consoles because something was generating enough RF to make them all act wonky.
[17:06] <The_Machine> any of you guys know cisco stuff well?  Like ASA 5000 series devices?
[17:08] <snap-l> I know crisco better than cisco
[17:27] <brousch> i am familiar with Cpt Sisko. Does that help?
[17:32] <brousch> snap-l: i'm trying to recruit the guy you helped with the x120e efi issue into helping with the loco table at olf
[17:37] <brousch> due to your willingness to help and my light slathering of guilt, you may have a volunteer ;)
[17:49] <brousch> vim is growing on me
[17:55] <jrwren> gross, cut it off
[17:57] <brousch> i thought it was a symbiot, not a parasite!
[17:58] <jrwren> interesting
[18:04] <snap-l> brousch: Cool
[18:31] <snap-l> brousch: responded
[20:07] <brousch> holy crapinahat, it works. thanks rick_h_, i now have an installable package and command line program
[20:07] <brousch> i can even add it to pypi
[20:08] <brousch> somehow it even know to run with python3
[20:15] <brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=pkg_edit&name=pdfserenitynow
[20:26] <snap-l> nice!
[20:27] <snap-l> I haven't played with that at all
[20:27] <snap-l> though that's a dream when I actually have some working code to push out
[20:28] <_stink_> yeah, modern-package-template made work much easier for me
[20:37] <brousch> hah, it pip-installs
[20:37] <brousch> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pdfserenitynow/0.1
[20:38] <brousch> i am 1337
[22:22] <snap-l> uh oh
[22:22] <snap-l> power just went out
[22:23] <snap-l> OK, powering down.
[23:22] <CrusaderAD> Hey anyone here testing the new beta?
[23:23] <_stink_> i'm still on 10.04 :P
[23:23] <brousch> rick_h_: shouldn't your python inliner thing require argparse?
[23:30] <CrusaderAD> _stink_: unity hater?
[23:31] <rick_h_> brousch: it's built into python 2.7
[23:31] <rick_h_> ruh roh, no snapl, this could make a podcast interesting tonight
[23:32] <rick_h_> brousch: sweet! congrats on your first package
[23:32] <brousch> yeah, but for python 2.6?
[23:32] <rick_h_> sol? :P
[23:32] <brousch> very nice!
[23:33] <rick_h_> yea, for lower than 2.7 you'd have to install argparse
[23:33] <rick_h_> which can be added to the setup.py requires
[23:33] <CrusaderAD> you guys know of any good tutorials on python? like simple hello world stuff?
[23:33] <brousch> so should that be in the setup.py requires section?
[23:33] <rick_h_> yea, I'm not sure how to do it dependant on the python version though
[23:33] <brousch> CrusaderAD: print("Hello, World!")
[23:33] <rick_h_> sure there must be some way
[23:36] <CrusaderAD> brousch: is python good for gui stuff?
[23:39] <brousch> rick_h_: darn, it's not smart enough to realize argparse is already part of python3.2. it downloads and installs it
[23:39] <brousch> CrusaderAD: as good as anything else
[23:39] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, that's what I was saying. Need some way to specify the check
[23:39] <brousch> i was hoping it would be smart enough to check that
[23:39] <rick_h_> actually, I guess it'd be easy
[23:40] <rick_h_> you'd just add an if block on setup.py to change the install_requires list based on the current python verion
[23:40] <rick_h_> version
[23:40] <rick_h_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6080646/install-requires-in-setup-py-depending-on-installed-python-version
[23:40] <rick_h_> for example
[23:41] <brousch> hm, could do a different setup.py for 2.6
[23:41] <rick_h_> well < python 2.7 in my case
[23:41] <rick_h_> but yea
[23:42] <brousch> darn your google foo
[23:42] <rick_h_> hey, well I thought of it first, then found the example :P
[23:50] <brousch> awesome, it worked
[23:50] <brousch> i forget that kind of thing is python, so you can do whatever to it
[23:50] <brousch> aparently argparse is not in python3 or 3.1, so it was a litte more difficult
[23:50] <rick_h_> ah, yea
[23:54] <brousch> probably cleanest to start with a requires for all versions, then append the special requirements for each different version
[23:58] <brousch> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/400/
[23:59] <rick_h_> yea, aweomse
[23:59] <rick_h_> thanks
[23:59] <rick_h_> prepping for podcast now, but will try it out later
[23:59] <rick_h_> I've run into that with another thing a co-worker grabbed today
[23:59] <rick_h_> so something I should have been looking to do before


[07:20] <didrocks> good morning
[07:41] <jibel> Salut didrocks
[07:45] <didrocks> salut jibel
[07:49] <duflu> Hi didrocks, jibel
[07:50] <RAOF> Aloha everyone!
[07:58] <duflu> Aloha RAOF. Although if you are in Hawaii then you're working extra late
[08:33] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:33] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN
[08:34] <oSoMoN> good afternoon duflu
[08:34] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN, didn't see you duflu, RAOF!
[08:34] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[09:04] <willcooke> morning gang
[09:08] <oSoMoN> good morning willcooke
[09:08] <duflu> Hi willcooke
[09:08]  * duflu resists some kind of Scooby reference
[09:09] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[09:35] <Wimpress> Morning desktoppers o/
[09:35] <oSoMoN> hey Wimpress
[09:40] <doko> duflu: is it possible to manually change the font size of the top bar?
[09:42] <duflu> doko, not directly (bug 1717453). But I believe fractional scaling works around that: (1) Use Wayland sessions; (2) gsettings set org.gnome.mutter experimental-features "['scale-monitor-framebuffer']"
[09:42] <ubot5`> bug 1717453 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Shell menus (panel, dock, window) font size does not match configured interface font size" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1717453
[09:42] <duflu> Hi Wimpress
[09:43] <Wimpress> o/
[09:44] <doko> duflu: is wayland working with the nvidia drivers?
[09:45] <duflu> doko, kind of (?). I only remember there being a performance spike in the kernel. There might have been other problems
[09:45] <duflu> I mean unusual CPU spike in the kernel.
[09:46] <duflu> doko, actually this may work, I don't know: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1717456/comments/4
[09:46] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1717456 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "Panel and panel menus don't respond to theme changes" [Low,Opinion]
[09:52] <duflu> doko, sorry I just checked and there is a solution that works: Tweaks > Fonts > Scaling Factor =
[09:52] <duflu> instead of changing individual fonts
[09:53] <doko> duflu: ta
[10:54] <willcooke> Oooh, new firmware update available.  Although the note says "Update include a security fix"
[10:54] <willcooke> Not very helpful
[11:01] <didrocks> it's so secured that it's not disclosed ;)
[11:16] <willcooke> :)
[11:39] <oSoMoN> security. don't ask.
[11:42] <GunnarHj> Hi didrocks, can you please take a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-seeds/+git/ubuntu/+merge/364967
[11:56] <didrocks> GunnarHj: looking good, merging
[12:02] <GunnarHj> didrocks: Great. I hit bug #1818890, and noticed that language-selector still pulled those two packages. (It also pulled fonts-noto-cjk-extra, but I think that's intentional due to its size.)
[12:02] <ubot5`> bug 1818890 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu Disco) "[disco] After installation, all the default languages are installed" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818890
[12:04] <didrocks> GunnarHj: do you still hit that bug? It's supposed to be fixed now
[12:04] <didrocks> GunnarHj: like, with a recent pending image
[12:05] <GunnarHj> didrocks: No, it was a few days ago. Haven't tested since.
[12:05] <didrocks> I reiterate the fact that now I think language-selector should use the seeds to know what packages to install
[12:05] <didrocks> (see my last comment on our long bug discussion ;))
[12:05] <didrocks> but I think you didn't have the time to look at that? Do you think it's something we can tackle next cycle?
[12:06] <didrocks> that way changing packages to install == changing the seeds, one place, easier :)
[12:07] <GunnarHj> didrocks: I have indeed been mostly absent this cycle, for a few reasons. Maintaining it in one place sounds right to me, and yes, I can revisit that discussion and look at it next cycle.
[12:09] <didrocks> GunnarHj: excellent! Keep me posted if you spot anything wrong due to our seed changes
[18:25] <willcooke> g'night all
[19:40] <robert_ancell> kenvandine (or others) we need to confirm the snapd-glib SRU (bug 1818766). If you have some time please check no obvious regressions. I'll do it at EOD if no-one else has but prefer second opinion.
[19:40] <ubot5`> bug 1818766 in snapd-glib (Ubuntu Cosmic) "Update to 1.47" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1818766


[11:43] <Milos_SD> Hi ... I am using Firefox Nightly in Ubuntu from nightly ppa, and I am having strange problems with it for a past 7 or more days
[11:43] <Milos_SD> It is very slow in opening pages, and it is using 50% of cpu (100% one CPU core)... sometimes it just freezes with cpu usage stuck at 50%
[16:50] <NoobForever> hello all
[16:50] <NoobForever> question:
[16:50] <NoobForever> what's the deal with firefox , linux, flash , videos ?
[16:51] <NoobForever> I get that flash is not supported
[16:51] <NoobForever> but why chrome defaults to html5 while firefox still uses it's ancient flash to (unsuccessfully) try to reproduce videos?
[16:52] <NoobForever> http://www.infobae.com/2015/03/06/1714150-video-como-ganar-una-lucha-sumo-el-mas-minimo-esfuerzo
[16:52] <NoobForever> firefox tries use flash and fails ^
[16:53] <NoobForever> chrome uses html5 and succeeds (doesn't even use is up to date inhouse flash thingy)
[16:53] <NoobForever> i'm on ubuntu 12
[16:53] <NoobForever> latest firefox
[16:54] <NoobForever> shouting at the wind
[16:54] <NoobForever> if you are going to ditch flash, AT THE VERY LEAST USE HTML5 WHEN POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!
[16:55] <NoobForever> that said, I always use firefox. I resort to chrome when video or g ames don't work
[17:01] <gQuigs> Adobe is abandoning Firefox/Linux not the other way around
[17:02] <gQuigs> I'm not sure about Ubuntu 12.04.. but in 14.04, youtube can do pretty much everyting with HTML5
[17:02] <gQuigs> NoobForever: ^
[17:03] <NoobForever> ok
[17:03] <NoobForever> thanks for answering my rant
[17:03] <NoobForever> I'll upgrade to 14 then (been postponing it)
[17:03] <gQuigs> gQuigs: that video works for me on Firefox 36.0 on vivid (of course I'm not suggesting you run vivid)
[17:04] <gQuigs> +1 on upgrading to 14.04


[04:30] <DrivenMad> Has anyone installed linux on a E-Vectra system( terminal box) ?? I keep getting blank screens
[04:32] <DrivenMad> I am trying to get ANY linux distro to run on these boxes to build a public wifi network :)


[00:03] <pleia2> doh, forgot to do "In This Issue" section
[00:11] <pleia2> that seems to have broken things somehow, running it again does't recreate the In This Issue section
[00:16] <pleia2> I need to run out, I'll start publishing when I get home
[01:28] <pleia2> The new edition of the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter is now available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue233
[01:28] <pleia2> :)
[01:28] <pleia2> good job everyone
[01:31] <akgraner> Thank pleia2 :-)
[01:31] <akgraner> Thanks even
[01:31] <akgraner> I <3 our team!....
[01:31] <pleia2> <3
[01:32] <pleia2> it felt like a lot of work early on, but with these new scripts and a good workflow it's much less stressful
[01:32] <akgraner> totally!
[01:32] <akgraner> it's so much easier than 2 years oak
[01:32] <akgraner> even a year ago
[01:32] <pleia2> yeah
[01:32] <akgraner> all because of you all
[01:32] <pleia2> oops, I didn't finish fridge yet
[01:33] <akgraner> eek
[01:33] <akgraner> I'll let you do that


[12:34] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[12:34] <pygi> LaserJock, !!
[12:35] <minghua> hello LaserJock
[12:35] <LaserJock> hi pygi
[12:49] <etank> pygi: i came up with a question for you if you have a few moments.
[12:49] <pygi> etank, oki, pm
[12:49] <etank> sure
[12:49] <pygi> if I know, I can answer ^_^
[12:57] <pygi> LaserJock, did we backport deboostrap from gutsy to feisty-backports?
[12:57] <LaserJock> I think it actually goes into -updates
[12:58] <pygi> LaserJock, understood, thanks
[02:46] <ubunt1> hi
[02:46] <ubunt1> how can i program.
[02:46] <ubunt1> c++
[03:01] <ripl> where is hobbsee?
[03:54] <Hobbsee> morning all
[04:15] <racarr> Hello Hobbsee
[04:15] <Hobbsee> hi racarr :)
[04:15] <racarr> How are you?
[04:16] <Hobbsee> meh.
[04:16] <Hobbsee> reading backscroll and such, thinking about actually going to uni today
[04:19] <racarr> That might be a good idea.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> yeah, maybe.
[04:20] <racarr> In other news, I made nautilus crackful! http://www.rpi.edu/~carrr/woo.png
[04:20] <racarr> (different wallpapers)
[04:21] <Hobbsee> heh, nice :)
[04:30] <nixternal> Mithrandir: GPL copyright holder seems to be using a pseudonym for his name, is this legal, or acceptable for a package that I want to get into Debian and Ubuntu? I am currently working on one now that is like that. thanks!
[04:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: he'll be asleep, FYI
[04:32] <nixternal> ya, I kind of figured that...to bad I didn't have his phone number ;p
[04:32] <Hobbsee> LaserJock!
[04:32] <Hobbsee> nixternal: it'd still require actually claling the correct number, evenif you had it
[04:33] <nixternal> any other archive admins awake or around?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> unlikely
[04:33] <Hobbsee> it's au day
[04:33] <nixternal> hrmm, seems like pitti said g'nite 8 hours ago...about time he woke up :)
[04:34] <Hobbsee> it was a weekend 8 hours ago in most countries, still
[04:34] <nixternal> yes, but he needs to wake up and help me...I mean go to work ;p
[04:38] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:24] <fabbione> morning guys
[06:25] <Hobbsee> hi fabbione!
[06:25] <fabbione> yo
[06:25] <Burgundavia> hey jsgotangco
[06:26] <jsgotangco> hi!
[06:26] <Hobbsee> hi Burgundavia
[07:21] <pitti> Good morning
[07:23] <Burgundavia> hey pitti
[07:26] <Hobbsee> hi pitti!
[07:27] <LaserJock> hi pitti and Hobbsee
[07:27] <Hobbsee> hiya LaserJock :)
[08:45] <siretart> morning folks
[08:45] <pitti> hi siretart
[08:45] <siretart> Mithrandir: can you please give back xine-lib on all archs? (again, this time it should work, since I fixed ffmpeg, again)
[08:45] <siretart> hey pitti
[08:47] <Hobbsee> hi siretart
[08:49] <siretart> :)
[09:07] <Mithrandir> siretart: given-back
[09:19] <pitti> Riddell, LongPointyStick: Any idea about digikaminageplugins? It's uninstallable, but ISTR someone mentioning that it is obsolete?
[09:28] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: should I ask you to review an upload for feisty-backports? or should I just find a core-dev to upload it? (because I believe I can't upload to -backports as a motu)
[09:29] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: is there a reason it can't be done through the normal backports process?
[09:31] <StevenK> Wah. Why does next doors band have to practice when I'm crabby, tired and have a headache?
[09:31] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: yes, it requires a newer version of libgnutls than the one available in the feisty archive. the patch which fixes that is known to work because it is also used in the current package in feisty
[09:31] <StevenK> A street-wide power outage appeals, but that doesn't fix the drum kit.
[09:32] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: hm, ok.  You don't need pre-approval from archive to upload to backports, but you should have coordinated with the backports team.  As long as that's done, please feel free to find a core-dev sponsor
[09:33] <Adri2000> ok
[09:33] <mpt> hi StevenK
[09:36] <cjwatson> pygi: yes, we did backport it. use 'rmadison -u ubuntu debootstrap' on gutsy to see
[09:36] <pygi> cjwatson, thanks
[09:36] <mpt> StevenK, did you ever get about-window packaged?
[09:37] <cjwatson> it goes into -backports
[09:37] <Lure> pitti: digikamimageplugins is included in digikam now, I have opened bug to remove it from archive
[09:37] <pygi> cjwatson, thought so. thanks :)
[09:37] <Lure> pitti: ubuntu-archive is subscribed to bug
[09:37] <pitti> Lure: ah, then I'll look at those right now; thanks
[09:39] <pitti> it's gone
[09:40] <pitti> doko_: any idea about the uninstallability of libgcj7-awt?
[09:41] <pitti> doko_: it depends on an old version of gcj-4.1-base
[09:41] <pitti> oh, it's NBS
[09:42] <pitti> doko_: so, it seems we need to rebuild openoffice.org to have openoffice.org-officebean drop its libgcj7-awt dependency, then we can remove it
[09:43] <pitti> right now, -officebean is uninstallable
[09:46] <StevenK> mpt: Somewhat.
[09:53] <dholbach> good morning
[09:54] <pygi> morning dholbach
[09:54] <dholbach> hi pygi
[10:02] <mvo> good morning dholbach!
[10:03] <highvoltage> hello dholbach, pygi and mvo
[10:03] <pygi> hey highvoltage :)
[10:04] <dholbach> hey mvo
[10:04] <dholbach> hey highvoltage
[10:04] <mvo> hey highvoltage
[10:05] <doko_> pitti: correct, but the openoffice.org-officebean should be in universe anyway
[10:05] <doko_> will have to update the OOo build today
[10:06] <pitti> oh, ok, I can demote it
[10:06] <pitti> doko_: it's not in anastacia, thus likely seeded
[10:06] <pitti> doko_: shall I unseed it?
[10:07] <pitti> doko_: it's currently in the 'development' section
[10:09] <doko_> hmm, not now, let's see how this works with openJDK. put on my "things to remember for gutsy"
[10:11] <StevenK> doko_: For a main merge, are -java-gcj packages still required?
[10:16] <pitti> doko_: ok; FYI, I removed libgcj-awt since it is uninstallable anyway
[10:16] <lool> doko_: Happy birthday!
[10:18] <pitti> argh, vmware kernel mod doesn't build for 2.6.22; so back to 2.6.20, brb
[10:23] <cjwatson> 15:22 <BenC> s/h/mac_header/
[10:23] <cjwatson> 15:22 <BenC> s/nh/network_header/
[10:23] <cjwatson> pitti: ^-- advice on fixing vmmon/userif.c
[10:23] <cjwatson> er, vmnet
[10:23] <pitti> oh, sweet, thanks
[10:27] <fabbione> nah wait
[10:27] <fabbione> it's not enough
[10:27] <doko_> StevenK: yes, they speed up interpreted code quiet a lot
[10:27] <doko_> lool: thanks :)
[10:27] <fabbione> pitti: chinstrap:~bcollins/vmnet.tar
[10:27] <fabbione> doko: hey old man
[10:27] <StevenK> doko: Many happy returns!
[10:28] <pitti> that's even better, thanks fabbione
[10:34] <mvo> doko: happy birthday from me too
[10:34] <pygi> oh, birthday!
[10:34] <pygi> doko, happy birthday ^_^
[11:05] <Riddell> pitti: yes, it is obsolete, Lure will tell you if it can just be deleted now
[11:05] <pitti> Riddell: thanks; I killed it already
[11:05] <Riddell> cool
[11:07] <glatzor> mpt: Hello, have you already found the time to look at the user interface of displayconfig?
[11:12] <mpt> glatzor, yes, sorry I haven't replied yet
[11:12] <mpt> I had a couple of questions
[11:13] <mpt> * Is this intended to replace gnome-display-properties?
[11:13] <mpt> (and if not, why not?)
[11:13] <cjwatson> mpt: the spec discusses that
[11:13] <glatzor> mpt: I would like to. Mdz would like to have it as an advanced button.
[11:13] <cjwatson> displayconfig-gtk
[11:13] <mpt> oh, there's a spec?
[11:14] <cjwatson> yeah, a gutsy target
[11:14] <glatzor> mpt: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DisplayConfigGTK
[11:15] <mpt> ah
[11:15] <mpt> I did skim that page, but I was looking for the screenshots so I didn't even notice it was a spec :-/
[11:16] <pitti> doko: FYI, I fix libbcel-java-doc not to depend on libxerces2-java-doc, since the latter does not exist; ok with you?
[11:17] <glatzor> mpt: I came up with a redesign here recently: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2007-May/001057.html
[11:18] <pitti> doko: alternatively I can move libbcel-java-doc to multiverse, so that it becomes installable; what do you prefer?
[11:18] <mpt> glatzor, I think we can handle the cases of one screen, two screens, and three screens all in the same window without it getting complicated
[11:18] <mpt> and that would be far preferable to having three different UIs for those three cases
[11:19] <mpt> glatzor, what happens in the window when you plug in an extra monitor? Does it appear in the list automatically?
[11:19] <doko> pitti: hmm, maybe make it a recommends instead of a depends
[11:20] <pitti> doko: right, I dropped it to Suggests:
[11:20] <mpt> oh, nm, I should just read the spec first
[11:20] <glatzor> mpt: that is not supported on all cards (hardware side) furthermore it is also not supported by X
[11:21] <Mithrandir> glatzor: (yet)
[11:21] <Mithrandir> it will be soonish
[11:21] <glatzor> Mithrandir: Do you know when there will be a dbus interface roughly?
[11:22] <Mithrandir> glatzor: I think X hotplug is 7.3 material, but it might be later.
[11:23] <mpt> glatzor, so how are you supposed to set it up? Is there supposed to be a "Detect" button somewhere? Or do you need to restart the computer?
[11:23] <glatzor> Mithrandir: I thought you were talking about emitting a device change signal.
[11:23] <Mithrandir> glatzor: *shrug*; that's utterly trivial once all the other bits are in place.
[11:25] <glatzor> mpt: We still use the xorg.conf for the configuration. So you have to restart your X server. I already send a signal to gdm to do this if you made any corresponding changes. So logging off should be sufficient.
[11:25] <mpt> Ok, there needs to be a sentence to that effect in this window
[11:26] <mpt> Otherwise people will stand there staring at it waiting while nothing happens
[11:26] <glatzor> mpt: you get a dialog depending on the changes.
[11:26] <glatzor> mpt: we can apply some changes instantly using xrandr
[11:26] <mpt> I'm not talking about having changed settings, I'm talking about plugging in another display
[11:27] <glatzor> mpt: Oh, the available screens are tried to guess from the hardware.
[11:27] <tepsipakki> x server 1.3 supports output hotplug (=randr 1.2), it's just that only the intel driver supports that properly
[11:27] <glatzor> mpt: If there is no screen attached to the output we just show it as disabled.
[11:27] <mpt> glatzor, what do you mean by "the output"?
[11:28] <glatzor> mpt: the output jacket of your graphics card.
[11:28] <pitti> Riddell: can you please unseed strigi from the Kubuntu seeds as long as it (and the plethora of build deps and deps) are still in universe?
[11:28] <pitti> Riddell: I can do it as well if you give me your ok
[11:28] <Riddell> pitti: why?  I hope to get it into main soon and the seeds should reflect what is wanted
[11:29] <pitti> Riddell: it generates a lot of clutter in anastacia, but I can try to ignore it
[11:29] <glatzor> mpt: For example ATI cards with dual head support are detected by their pci string: it contains the term "Secondary"
[11:29] <pitti> but in general, things should be seeded when they have MIRs
[11:30] <mpt> glatzor, does that mean that because I might one day plug a USB monitor into one of my USB ports, this window needs to contain one disabled item for each of my USB ports?
[11:31] <tepsipakki> usb monitor?
[11:31] <glatzor> mpt: if there are any USB monitors: yes.
[11:31] <glatzor> mpt: but luckily that is not the case
[11:31] <mvo> tepsipakki: do you know is xrandr will send a XRRNotifyEvent if a additional monitor is pluged in?
[11:32] <glatzor> mpt: We are just limited by the available technologies
[11:32] <Mithrandir> mpt: I'd argue no, since USB is a general interface while your display connectors are hardly useful for anything but plugging in monitors.
[11:32] <Mithrandir> iwj: any chance I could grab a bit of your time today to get some bits of dpkg svn merged into our package?
[11:32] <mpt> I was confused by http://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/cp_114401_filter_interface_usb.html
[11:32] <mpt> It looks like it's selling USB monitors, but apparently not
[11:33] <cjwatson> woo, usplash console font handling fixed
[11:33] <cjwatson> there goes a big load of bugs
[11:33] <tepsipakki> mvo: no idea..
[11:33] <Keybuk> cjwatson: oh aye?
[11:33] <persia> mpt: There are USB video interfaces (I have one), but not yet monitors.
[11:34] <tepsipakki> mpt: ah, they could have usb hubs in the m :)
[11:34] <mpt> yeah
[11:34] <tepsipakki> -" "
[11:34] <mpt> heh
[11:34] <Mithrandir> mpt: however, if you have a USB video interface with no connected monitor, showing it as disabled is fine.  IMO, at least.
[11:34] <iwj> Mithrandir: Sure.  I haven't looked at the svn changes in detail.  Did you have any particular things in mind \/
[11:34] <cjwatson> Keybuk: if you switch to graphics mode and back, the kernel doesn't save the previous console font for you - so the console-setup initramfs business to set the font early wasn't working
[11:34] <iwj> s,\\/,?
[11:35] <Keybuk> cjwatson: ahh
[11:35] <cjwatson> Keybuk: fix is to get usplash to save the console font before switching to KD_GRAPHICS, and restore it after switching back to KD_TEXT
[11:35] <cjwatson> bug 91422 and friends
[11:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91422 in console-setup "FEISTY: ctrl alt f1 terminal doesn't work with special characters (, ..)" [Undecided,Needs info]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91422
[11:35] <Mithrandir> iwj: the changes needed for lpia are in svn; I'm not sure of the exact set of commits we want to merge, but I could find it for you
[11:36] <mpt> glatzor, is the "primary screen" the one on which the panels appear?
[11:36] <iwj> Mithrandir: If you know what you're looking for then yes, sure.  If you point me at it I'd be happy to merge it in.  (It might be trivial.)
[11:37] <glatzor> mpt: I would recommend to look at this screenshot: http://glatzor.de/filesink/allinone.png
[11:37] <iwj> Or alternative I'm happy to do the digging.
[11:37] <iwj> s/ive/&ly
[11:37] <glatzor> mpt: this is what I am planing to upload soon.
[11:37] <glatzor> mpt: yes. the primary screen is the default/main screen
[11:38] <Mithrandir> iwj: if you'd like, please.  It should be mostly limited to dpkg-architecture and is a week-ish old.
[11:38] <Mithrandir> iwj: anything mentioning "lpia" is interesting
[11:39] <glatzor> mpt: the displayconfig can already handle unplugged primary screens by showing a move displayconfig dialog to this screen buttons on every screen.
[11:39] <iwj> Mithrandir: OK, I'll take a look.  Do you have a cutoff date before which it definitely won't be there ?
[11:41] <mpt> glatzor, that would be no use if you couldn't launch it in the first place :-)
[11:42] <Mithrandir> iwj: anything older than May 15th should be uninteresting.
[11:42] <Mithrandir> that should leave you with 30-odd commits to go through, I think
[11:43] <glatzor> mpt: Displayconfig will also be used in the failed x session
[11:43] <iwj> Mithrandir: Thanks, that should be NP.
[11:43] <glatzor> mpt: furthermore you have to relay on the Window manager to not open the dialog window on the correct screen.
[11:44] <glatzor> mpt: to not open the dialog on the wrong screen
[11:48] <StevenK> iwj: If you're going to do an dpkg upload, I've noticed update-alternatives throwing a Perl warning. I just can't recall more details at this point.
[11:49] <iwj> StevenK: I'll check my diff.  I might have missed a `my'.
[11:49] <iwj> (The merge from Debian included turning warnings on.)
[11:50] <Mithrandir> there's a slew of commits in Debian which fixes warnings too
[11:50] <iwj> (And a concomitant coding style change.)
[11:50] <iwj> Maybe we should just merge from the SVN head.
[11:50] <iwj> I'll see what it looks like and decide.
[11:51] <Mithrandir> I wouldn't mind
[11:51] <mpt> glatzor, if you could rely on the window manager to do that, then half this problem would go away: you wouldn't need a list of displays, because each display could have its own settings window.
[11:52] <glatzor> mpt: that is definitely a cool idea.
[11:52] <mpt> Can you rely on Metacity to get it right, at least?
[11:53] <glatzor> mpt: oh, but how to enable screens?
[11:53] <glatzor> mpt: could be a little bit tricky :)
[11:53] <glatzor> mpt: not with metacity, but on a lower level.
[11:56] <mpt> glatzor, ah, so that's where the auto-detection is required, hmm
[11:57] <mpt> glatzor, what do you mean by "on a lower level"?
[11:57] <glatzor> mpt: and that is also where you depend on the hardware again. there is no guarantee that the output on the screen is actually visible for a human.
[11:58] <glatzor> mpt: we cannot detect jammed outputs from the software side.
[11:58] <mpt> "jammed"?
[11:58] <mdz> tepsipakki: yay, no more xlibs-dev
[11:59] <glatzor> mpt: with not working/broken configurations.
[11:59] <mpt> oh
[11:59] <mpt> Supporting a limited subset of displays, perhaps
[11:59] <pitti> carlos: ^ thank you
[12:00] <carlos> pitti: :-)
[12:00] <carlos> cool
[12:00] <StevenK> pitti: Yay!
[12:01] <iwj> #
[12:01] <iwj> Oops.
[12:01] <pitti> "Parlez vous francais" anyone?
[12:02] <pitti> Riddell: could you please test the brand new gutsy langpacks for KDE? (French and English)
[12:02] <ssam> mpt, you can plug almost any display/projector into mac os x, and it will automagically enable it (though there is a button to tell it to redetect monitors)
[12:02] <glatzor> mpt: You cannot prevent that the user chooses the wrong CRT, since many monitors identify themselves incorrectly. So you have to allow enforcing a configuration.
[12:03] <mvo> pitti: app-install-data-ubuntu is uploaded, I have a small fix for g-a-i as well, do you want it too? or should I wait until the freeze is over?
[12:04] <mpt> ssam, right, I wasn't wondering about the detection (any more), I was wondering how OS X doesn't have the problem with (as glatzor says) choosing the wrong CRT
[12:05] <pitti> mvo: freeze hasn't even begun yet, so feel free
[12:05] <mvo> pitti: heh :) ok, looks like I haven't catched up yet :)
[12:06] <StevenK> Oh, that's right. I ought to get Tribe 1 for my birthday.
[12:06] <Mithrandir> I think we should delay it by a day so I'll get it for mine
[12:06] <mvo> Riddell: the new kde-guidance b-depens on python-kde3 3.17.2-1ubuntu2, but that does not appear to be in the archive yet?
[12:07] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I think I get it for mine due to timezones.
[12:07] <StevenK> Mithrandir: But it seems we share a birthday.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> StevenK: yes, we do
[12:07] <Riddell> mvo: yeah, getting to it now
[12:08] <StevenK> Yay me for forgetting that.
[12:08] <mvo> Riddell: cool, thanks (no pressure, I was just wondering if it was intentional or not)
[12:08] <dholbach> pitti: did you find somebody speaking french already?
[12:08] <dholbach> mvo: enjoy
[12:08] <glatzor> Riddell: I cleaned up the patches folder in the displayconfig bzr repository. The pathces now have got better names and there is a STATUS file to keep track of merges
[12:09] <pitti> dholbach: nope; any popular language will do, it's just testing the new gutsy langpacks a bit before uploading
[12:09] <pitti> dholbach: German looks good here for Gnome
[12:09] <Riddell> glatzor: ok , cool.  I havn't heard from sime for a while so not sure what the best way is to just merge those upstream
[12:10] <dholbach> pitti: ah ok
[12:10] <Riddell> glatzor: probably keep pinging him and just merge them if he doesn't show up
[12:10] <Riddell> pitti: sure
[12:10] <pitti> dholbach: I'll just test Russian myself, I think, that will be fine; if a KDE guy tests some KDE packages, that should suffice
[12:10] <pitti> Riddell: merci :)
[12:26] <pitti> Riddell: Russian, German, and English looks good for Gnome; let's hope the best for KDE, too :)
[12:44] <pitti> carlos: ah, I had a look
[12:44] <pitti> carlos: so, e. g. gnome-panel-2.0.mo is in language-pack-gnome-de-base_6.06+20070129_all.deb
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: and also in the later update
[12:45] <pitti> carlos: s/the/a/
[12:46] <pitti> carlos: so the latest language-pack-gnome-de replaced the files in -base, and now they are gone from installations
[12:47] <pitti> carlos: that at least explains why there is no gnome-panel-2.0.mo *at all* on an updated dapper
[12:47] <pitti> carlos: I'm not sure whether the presence of the mo is due to me not cleaning up the source packages on import (for various reasons), or due to Rosetta dropping the .po files at some point in the updates tarball
[12:51] <mpt> glatzor, replied to your original message
[12:52] <carlos> pitti: I'm working on the DB to see whether we removed them because the files don't have any update since our last base package update (Last January)
[12:52] <carlos> pitti: in which case it means is correct
[12:53] <pitti> carlos: DB-wise it would be correct, yeah, then I need to always build the packages against their previous version instead of from scratch
[12:55] <pitti> carlos: so AFAICS this should only affect dapper, since for edgy we didn't do a base upgrade
[01:00] <glatzor> mpt: I am writing on my reply
[01:00] <glatzor> mpt: macos shows the config dialog on each display?
[01:01] <glatzor> mpt: So it cannot providing cloning/duplicating of screens?
[01:02] <tepsipakki> mdz: yep, about time to get rid of it :)
[01:02] <glatzor> mpt: ah, there is a mirror checkbutton. but how does this work on more than two monitors?
[01:04] <carlos> pitti: sorry, I don't get you. Aren't we already doing that?
[01:04] <pitti> carlos: IOW, I cannot just build dapper langpacks from your tarball, but update the existing ones with your tarball
[01:04] <pitti> carlos: it's pretty clear to me now
[01:05] <carlos> pitti: I have two kind of language packs
[01:05] <carlos> a full one
[01:05] <carlos> and updates based on that one
[01:06] <carlos> dapper is doing update based on latest full export for Dapper which was on 2007-01-15
[01:06] <pitti> carlos: right; somehow e. g. gnome-panel-2.0.po landed in an update pack after the base refreshment
[01:06] <carlos> s/dapper is doing/launchpad is doing for dapper/
[01:06] <pitti> and due to that I *always* have to ship gnome-panel-2.0 in the update packs
[01:06] <carlos> that was what we tried to solve with January update
[01:07] <carlos> pitti: don't you remember that?
[01:07] <pitti> carlos: of course I do
[01:07] <carlos> we did a full base update to restore some removed packages that were being exported by mistake from Launchpad
[01:07] <pitti> but somehow the affected .po files still landed in the update packages afterwards
[01:07] <carlos> pitti: then, does it mean it happen again?
[01:08] <carlos> once we fixed it, if it lands to the packages, it means they should remain there...
[01:08] <carlos> or we have a bug...
[01:09] <pitti> I'm not sure when and where that originated, and I guess we don't have those old update tarballs any more
[01:09] <pitti> carlos: anyway, I'll build the new ones based on the current ones to ensure that files will not get lost
[01:09] <mpt> glatzor, with OS X mirroring multiple screens is not obvious
[01:09] <mpt> you Option+drag one display onto another in the Arrange tab
[01:10] <carlos> pitti: my question is
[01:10] <mpt> The Arrange tab appears only on the primary display, not any of the others.
[01:10] <carlos> would that produce that we have some Dapper users that lost .mo files like we had before January's update?
[01:11] <mpt> glatzor, more details and screenshots at http://www.macinstruct.com/node/78
[01:11] <pitti> carlos: if I built update packages just from your tarball now, yes, it would
[01:14] <carlos> pitti: hmm, are you completely sure you didn't add those .mo files manually?
[01:14] <carlos> pitti: you said you did it in the past
[01:14] <carlos> and I wonder whether would be possible that we disabled it too late
[01:15] <pitti> carlos: that's what I said; I nuked the existing update packages after the base refreshment of course
[01:15] <pitti> carlos: but at some point they crawled into the daily update packages again
[01:15] <carlos> ok
[01:15] <pitti> so I'd think that *at some point* they have been part of the updated tarballs from you
[01:15] <pitti> but I cannot say when
[01:15] <pitti> (at some point after the base refreshment)
[01:16] <carlos> pitti: are you able to provide me with a list of missing files?
[01:16] <glatzor> mpt: by the way the new XRandR hotplug thing does not support multiple graphics cards.
[01:16] <pitti> carlos: I think I could do that if you need them, yes
[01:16] <pitti> carlos: I'll build good ones over lunch and then debdiff them
[01:16] <carlos> pitti: well, that's the only way I could 'force' to get those files exported again
[01:17] <carlos> pitti: either that or do another base update...
[01:17] <carlos> although I would like to see why did we get this regression
[01:17] <carlos> s/see/know/
[01:17] <pitti> carlos: I don't think we actually need to do that, but let's keep the list for the future anyway
[01:17] <glatzor> mpt: what does the "gather windows" button?
[01:18] <carlos> pitti: well, if we don't export missing files, people using Dapper will see again some applications in English
[01:18] <pitti> carlos: no, because I will build them using the existing packages in -updates
[01:19] <carlos> oh
[01:19] <glatzor> mpt: and how do you disable a monitor again on MacOS?
[01:20] <carlos> so you get previous source in Dapper and will add the ones provided by Launchpad?
[01:20] <pitti> carlos: right
[01:20] <carlos> I see
[01:20] <carlos> ok
[01:20] <pitti> carlos: that's how I build them normally
[01:20] <pitti> carlos: because it easily allows me to avoid updating packages which did not change at all
[01:20] <mpt> glatzor, you turn it off, I guess.
[01:20] <pitti> I just nuked them today to clean up rookery, but I restored them
[01:21] <pitti> carlos: at some point I either need to rewrite langpack-o-matic from scratch, or we can build the source packages straight from Rosetta...
[01:21] <carlos> pitti: good trick
[01:21] <carlos> pitti: I would like to build packages from Rosetta directlyu
[01:21] <carlos> but we are not yet there
[01:21] <mpt> glatzor, "Gather Windows" moves all windows that are on other displays onto the display in which you click the button.
[01:22] <mpt> So if a display stops working for whatever reason you can get the windows back.
[01:22] <mpt> oh wait, cancel that
[01:22] <mpt> aha
[01:23] <mpt> It moves only the display settings windows from the secondary displays onto the primary display.
[01:23] <mpt> actually, no (I'll get this right eventually)
[01:23] <glatzor> mpt: the other way would make more sense.
[01:23] <mpt> It moves the display settings windows from the other displays onto the display where you click the button.
[01:23] <glatzor> that makes sense.
[01:24] <glatzor> mpt: it is a funny idea to put the dialogs on the devices.
[01:24] <mpt> indeed
[01:24] <glatzor> mpt: but how does this work with cloned monitors?
[01:24] <mpt> It's called "direct manipulation" ;-)
[01:25] <mpt> glatzor, I don't know. If I had to guess, I'd guess that the display is cloned *except for* the display settings windows.
[01:25] <glatzor> mpt: I think that this could actually be done using XRandR.
[01:26] <mpt> cool
[01:26] <glatzor> AFAIK It allows to clone only a part of the screen. But I don't know if it allows to exlcude a part :)
[01:27] <mpt> Yeah, "clone everything except this window"
[01:27] <mpt> That's what Linux people call ... violation of ... something
[01:27] <mpt> "rampant layering violation"
[01:29] <glatzor> but it is really strange that there is no disable screen button
[01:31] <glatzor> mpt: "If you move icons from your main monitor to your secondary and then disconnect the secondary monitor, those icons may disappear. They will still be there when you have one monitor connected, but the way to get them back would be to highlight everything and then select "Clean Up Selection" from the View menu in the Finder, or select an "Arrange By..." also in the View menu in the Finder."
[01:31] <glatzor> mpt: so they cannot handle disabled devices at all :)
[01:31] <mpt> That can't be true, because then you'd lose entire windows
[01:31] <mpt> hmmmm
[01:34] <mpt> I agree that rearranging icons when you lose a display sucks
[01:34] <glatzor> mpt: Apple does not always to the things in the right way too :)
[01:35] <glatzor> mpt: on GNOME the situation is even wore since the desktop is always oriented to the upper left.
[01:36] <mpt> glatzor, I know, sometimes Apple does things very badly
[01:36] <glatzor> mpt: so if you have got a screen left of your main screen, the icons would show up there
[01:36] <mpt> oh, that's not good
[01:36] <mpt> Nautilus bug?
[01:36] <glatzor> mpt: I don't know.
[01:36] <glatzor> mpt: perhaps intended.
[01:37] <glatzor> mpt: by the way I replied on the list.
[01:37] <mpt> Ah, I knew I'd read about this before: "Disconnect the external display, and the right thing will happen, where by 'right thing' I mean that any windows which were open on the no-longer-available display will be moved to the internal display, and resized, if necessary, to fit."
[01:38] <mpt> So it moves+resizes the windows automatically, just not the icons
[01:38] <glatzor> that is cool.
[01:38] <glatzor> oh I haven't tested this with XRandR yet.
[02:10] <pygi> pitti, around by any chance?
[02:18] <pitti> pygi: just back from lunch
[02:18] <pygi> oh, oki :)
[02:18] <pygi> wanted to bug about sponsoring, but it seems pochu created the same package, and somebody is already sponsoring for him
[02:19] <hunger> Just got this error upgrading: /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.postinst: 2197: Syntax error: "then" unexpected (expecting "fi")
[02:19] <pitti> tepsipakki: ^
[02:20] <StevenK> Twitch. Line 2197?
[02:20] <asac> pitti: welcome back ... dapper build done?
[02:22] <pitti> asac: yep
[02:22] <asac> pitti: cool ... everything prepared for the diff.gz only arrival on edgy/feisty?
[02:22] <pitti> asac: so, let me pre-publish this
[02:22] <asac> pitti: sure ... let me know
[02:22] <pitti> asac: hold on
[02:23] <pygi> mvo, awake?
[02:24] <mvo> pygi: hello, yes
[02:25] <gnomefreak> hunger: it should be fine i dont think you will lose X even on restarting X
[02:25] <pitti> asac: ready
[02:26] <asac> pitti: k
[02:26] <hunger> gnomefreak: I am not planing to do that;-)
[02:27] <gnomefreak> hunger: i dont think it will hurt anything since your old versions are still installed ill try it in a bit ;)
[02:30] <BenC> pitti: chinstrap:~bcollins/vmnet.tar can be dropped in place too
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: great, thanks!
[02:31] <BenC> pitti: that's for ws6
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: btw, does linux-backport-modules still make sense, or is that merged into linux-ubuntu-modules?
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: ah, I see; I still have 5.5 (no license for 6)
[02:32] <BenC> pitti: it does, but I haven't updated it for 2.6.22 yet
[02:32] <BenC> pitti: go ahead and grab ws6 with temp key, and I'll get you a perm one
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: ok; the metapackages are currently uninstallable, that's why I wondered
[02:33] <BenC> pitti: doh, right, guess I should get that uploaded today
[02:34] <pitti> BenC: I'll shove it through NEW quickly once it arrived
[02:36] <asac> pitti: all uploaded
[02:38] <fabbione> cjwatson: what was the magic to boot an alternate cdrom and do a netinstall? I have a machine that cannot do PXE and the cdreader is.. hmmm flaky :)
[02:41] <pitti> carlos: got it: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/dapper-updates-incomplete.txt
[02:41] <pitti> carlos: I have a good set of dapper-proposed packages now
[02:42] <cjwatson> fabbione: you'll need to boot /install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/linux with /install/netboot/ubuntu-installer/i386/initrd.gz as the initrd; isolinux.cfg isn't set up to help you
[02:43] <fabbione> cjwatson: ok thanks..
[02:44] <pitti> BenC: hmm, the sparc metapackages are not installable either; any idea why?
[02:45] <cjwatson> pitti: I don't think linux-ubuntu-modules built for sparc
[02:45] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/+builds/+build/342882
[02:46] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, that would be it
[02:48] <carlos> pitti: that's a lot of files...
[02:48] <carlos> pitti: thanks, I will take a look once I'm done with lunch
[02:48] <Hobbsee> hi all!
[02:48] <pitti> carlos: as I said, it's not particularly urgent
[02:48] <carlos> pitti: sure, but i would like to know what's going on
[02:53] <BenC> lum didn't build for ia64 or sparc
[02:53] <BenC> missing header, I can reupload that today too
[03:04] <cjwatson> Keybuk: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/118561 - is it possible that when 'modprobe loop' returns, /sys/block/loop* won't be there yet?
[03:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118561 in casper "[Gutsy]  Kubuntu liveCD 20070603 doesn't boot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:04] <cjwatson> the earlier errors make me suspicious as well though
[03:04] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it's both possible and likely
[03:04] <Keybuk> it tends to bite dual-core systems more than single, obviously
[03:04] <Keybuk> they race better
[03:05] <cjwatson> evand: are you using dual-core?
[03:05] <Keybuk> it also could be a sign of a missing udev, of course
[03:05] <Keybuk> given the number of device errors
[03:06] <evand> cjwatson: yeah, core 2 duo
[03:06] <BenC> cjwatson: how many loop devs does livecd use?
[03:07] <Mithrandir> BenC: one, typically.
[03:07] <BenC> I recall a bug early in 2.6.22 where only one loop dev showed up, but I thought it was fixed
[03:07] <cjwatson> BenC: glob expansion's failing, so there aren't any there at all in this case
[03:08] <Arby> cjwatson: anymore info I can supply for that bug (I'm the reporter)?
[03:08] <cjwatson> Arby: from the shell, if you wait for a bit, is /sys/block/loop0 there?
[03:08] <cjwatson> whoa, here
[03:08] <cjwatson> 'modprobe loop' on gutsy leaves no /sys/block/loop*
[03:09] <evand> indeed, I just noticed that as well
[03:09] <BenC> let me find this bug
[03:09] <Arby> not that I've seen, it drops to an initramfs prompt and just sits there.
[03:09] <Keybuk> looking
[03:09] <Keybuk> confirmed
[03:09] <Keybuk> loading the loop module creates no devices
[03:09] <shawarma> What should it leave there? Loading the loop driver just provides the hooks for creating the device nodes.
[03:09] <cjwatson> Arby: I meant if you run ls to check, but it looks like we've confirmed it outside the initramfs
[03:09] <Keybuk> (nothing in sysfs, no uevent --> iz kernel boog)
[03:10] <shawarma> Or should it create some that we bind to stuff afterwards?
[03:10] <Keybuk> shawarma: historically it sets up 8 devices for use
[03:10] <shawarma> Keybuk: Oh, I see.
[03:10] <Arby> cjwatson: ah, OK /sys/block was there, beyond that I don't remember and I don't have the machine here
[03:10] <Arby> (at work)
[03:11] <Arby> this is all a bit beyond my skills to be honest but I do what I can.
[03:11] <Keybuk> hmm
[03:11] <shawarma> modinfo -p:
[03:11] <shawarma> max_loop:obsolete, loop device is created on-demand
[03:11] <Keybuk> max_loop:obsolete, loop device is created on-demand (int)
[03:11] <Keybuk> heh, jinx
[03:11] <shawarma> :)
[03:11] <cjwatson> er, seriously? how do I remand it? :)
[03:11] <cjwatson> demand
[03:11] <Keybuk> cjwatson: losetup
[03:12] <Keybuk> losetup -f does indeed make a /dev/loop0 for me
[03:12] <cjwatson> ouch
[03:13] <BenC> yeah, lkml claims "not a bug" :)
[03:13] <StevenK> Hrrm. How can I get make to report which rule it's jumping into? I'm trying to trace a build failure and want to know where in debian/rules to start shovelling.
[03:14] <Keybuk> BenC: the workflow is not immediately obvious to me
[03:14] <cjwatson> StevenK: make -d?
[03:14] <Keybuk> LOOP=$(losetup -f)
[03:14] <Keybuk> losetup $LOOP ...
[03:14] <Keybuk> ?
[03:15] <cjwatson> unfortunately busybox's losetup doesn't support -f, so this will take a bit of work
[03:15] <Keybuk> hmm, this isn't working now
[03:15] <Keybuk> now it says "could not find any device /dev/loop#"
[03:17] <ompaul> Hobbsee, you can claim anything you want, you just can't substanciate your claims that is all ;-)
[03:17] <BenC> Hobbsee you can't escape my next kernel upload :P
[03:17] <Hobbsee> BenC: oh dear.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> BenC: but my wifi appears to be broken on this one, so...
[03:18] <Hobbsee> it may well be pebkac, i havent found the problem yet
[03:22] <ShinyMonster> must...have...shiny....
[03:22] <carlos> pitti: filed as https://bugs.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/118638
[03:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118638 in rosetta "Language pack export lacks some files that were exported before" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[03:23] <pitti> carlos: I'll subscribe, thanks
[03:23] <ogra> StevenK, thanks for taking the fuse merge
[03:23] <StevenK> ogra: No problem. It was ... fun. I have scars. :-)
[03:23] <ogra> heh
[03:26] <dholbach> did anybody experience a xserver-xorg postinst error in the last update?
[03:27] <ShinyMonster> yes
[03:27] <StevenK> I saw that here about an hour ago.
 Just got this error upgrading: /var/lib/dpkg/info/xserver-xorg.postinst: 2197: Syntax error: "then" unexpected (expecting "fi")
 tepsipakki: ^
[03:27] <dholbach> ah ok
[03:27] <dholbach> right
[03:28] <pitti> dholbach: but no answer so far; if you feel like fixing that, go ahead :)
[03:29] <dholbach> right :)
[03:31] <tepsipakki> pitti: gah
[03:36] <siretart> Keybuk: you said last week that you have a mdadm merge in the pipe. do you have an ETA for that? c.f. bug 87745
[03:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 87745 in lvm2 "Root fs on LVM fails to boot" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/87745
[03:37] <Keybuk> siretart: waiting on an LVM/devmapper patch from SuSE to fix known bugs there
[03:37] <Keybuk> err, that bug appears to be entirely unrelated to mdadm, no?
[03:38] <siretart> Keybuk: see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/87745/comments/5
[03:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 87745 in lvm2 "Root fs on LVM fails to boot" [High,Confirmed]
[03:38] <Keybuk> siretart: yeah, but since the bug was reported about feisty, that's probably not the problem here <g>
[03:38] <Keybuk> (yes, lvm-on md won't work in gutsy right now)
[03:39] <siretart> well, yes, thats the problem I'm experiencing with my workstation machine at home
[03:39] <Keybuk> so mdadm
[03:39] <Keybuk> the merge is pretty trivial, and won't help
[03:39] <Keybuk> there's a patch from SuSE which is pretty trivial, that lets us have a 65-mdadm.vol_id.rules which will run vol_id on complete md devices
[03:39] <Keybuk> (as apposed to partially assembled ones)
[03:40] <Keybuk> so that solves the "lvm issue"
[03:40] <siretart> well, why not upload that to let folks boot again?
[03:40] <Keybuk> the non-trivial bit is working out what to do about running mdadm on block devices identified as linux raid
[03:40] <siretart> hm
[03:40] <Keybuk> because it wouldn't let them boot
[03:40] <Keybuk> since mdadm would never be run :)
[03:41] <Keybuk> right now, there's mdadm, mdrun, and a complicated initramfs script
[03:41] <siretart> my raid devices are assembled correctly
[03:41] <Keybuk> depending which way the neutrinos come in, you may get one or more in random orders
[03:41] <Keybuk> I'd kinda like to understand this, and just have one that works
[03:41] <siretart> sure
[03:42] <tepsipakki> umm, how to find the "line 2197" from the postinst.. does it count commented/empty lines?
[03:43] <Keybuk> help understanding how to run mdadm would be most welcome
[03:43] <jdub> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2007/jun07/06-04XandrosPR.mspx
[03:45] <jsgotangco> jdub: ick
[03:45] <sn0> eep @ xandros
[03:45] <jsgotangco> i guess that's why one of the people i know left recently heh
[03:46] <glatzor> mpt: do you want a feisty package of the latest displayconfig?
[03:46] <Keybuk> jsgotangco: they looking for jobs? :)
[03:46] <jsgotangco> i can ask heh
[03:47] <Keybuk> www.ubuntu.com/employment
[03:48] <zul> heh its corel all over again
[03:48] <Keybuk> isn't Xandros what's left of Corel?
[03:48] <zul> yep
[03:49] <jsgotangco> yep ming poon is still pretty much tech lead on it i believe
[03:57] <BenC> So is bug #118561 really being considered a kernel bug, or is it something that d-i/ubiquity needs to handle?
[03:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118561 in casper "[Gutsy]  Kubuntu liveCD 20070603 doesn't boot" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118561
[03:57] <BenC> this is the loop problem
[04:02] <cjwatson> BenC: I punted it back to casper, sounds like it's our problem
[04:03] <BenC> cjwatson: ok, thanks
[04:03] <cjwatson> working on enhancing busybox's losetup now
[04:03] <cjwatson> this is a bit weird, though, after a 'sudo losetup -f':
[04:03] <cjwatson> $ sudo losetup /dev/loop0
[04:03] <cjwatson> /dev/loop0: [3002e6bc] :268435508 0R) offset 805321200, undefined encryption
[04:03] <cjwatson> loop: can't get info on device /dev/loop0: No such device or address
[04:04] <cjwatson> maybe that's losetup's fault
[04:05] <cjwatson> mm, looks like it should be zeroing loopinfo before it passes it in
[04:05] <tepsipakki> pitti: I found the bug in xorg, it was an elif-line appended to the previous one :/
[04:08] <tepsipakki> hunger: thanks for telling about the xserver-xorg postinst bug, and sorry
[04:09] <cjwatson> BenC: actually, no, I don't get this. 'sudo losetup -f' works once, but after I losetup a file onto that, 'sudo losetup -f' doesn't work again
[04:10] <BenC> cjwatson: that was the bug report, and according to the thread, it's userspace breakage...but I'm not sure yet where that is broken
[04:10] <BenC> could be mount and losetup
[04:11] <cjwatson> all losetup does is walk through /dev/loop* statting them
[04:11] <cjwatson> if the device node isn't there, it won't worrk
[04:13] <cjwatson> looks like you need to mknod the devices yourself now :-/
[04:14] <cjwatson> some discussion in the thread seems to indicate that it's supposed to create one extra device though, so that you don't need to do that
[04:15] <BenC> cjwatson: a work around might be to add "options loop max_loop=8" to get the old behavior
[04:15] <BenC> but that sets a hard max limit on loop devices too
[04:17] <cjwatson> yeah, tolerable on the live CD though
[04:17] <Hobbsee> BenC: you wouldnt happen to know if intel 3945 cards were touched in the last kernel update would you?  I cant seem to modprobe it to get it flashing - modprobe ieee1394 comes back without errors, but doesnt seem to activate the card either.
[04:17] <cjwatson> thanks, I think I might do that for now
[04:17] <StevenK> I thought 1394 was Firewire
[04:17] <BenC> Hobbsee: wasn't touched...are you sure you have lrm for -16 installed?
[04:17] <BenC> cjwatson: ok
[04:18] <Hobbsee> BenC: gutsy.  -6.  yes, both the ubuntu modules and the restricted modules
[04:19] <Hobbsee> BenC:  i havent tried a reboot etc, yet - only modprobing the cards after the ubuntu modules came in
[04:19] <BenC> has to be done when lrm is also installed, because it requires the ipw3945d-`uname -r`
[04:20] <BenC> you could try "modprobe -r ipw3945; modprobe ipw3945" and see if that fixes it
[04:21] <cjwatson> BenC: we don't seem to be up-to-date with the patch in http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/3/29/47; specifically we're missing the if (!loop_find_dev(lo->lo_number + 1)) loop_init_one(lo->lo_number + 1); in lo_open
[04:21] <cjwatson> and the loop_find_dev function
[04:21] <Hobbsee> BenC: okay, where's the duncecap.
[04:22] <Hobbsee> BenC: too many damned numbers.     loaded the wrong module.  sorry for the noise
[04:22] <BenC> np :)
[04:22] <BenC> cjwatson: there's a lot of back and forth about how to handle that patch among others
[04:22] <BenC> I'm still digging through the thread
[04:24] <Keybuk> it does seem a bit broken
[04:24] <Keybuk> "mknod the device yourself" is very 1980s
[04:25] <iwj> OK, here's a question: I want to merge dpkg from svn and it looks like pushing svn trunk into gutsy is the right thing.  I what form should my package take (particularly, which version number) to avoid confusing MoM and similar tools ?
[04:25] <iwj> Actually constructing the package is easy - I can do that bit.
[04:25] <Keybuk> iwj: it depends
[04:25] <iwj> Go on ...
[04:25] <Keybuk> if a new version is uploaded to Debian, do you want that to be sync'd or merge'd ?
[04:25] <Keybuk> or do you want our dpkg to be a permanent fork, only merged from svn?
[04:26] <iwj> Merged.
[04:26] <Keybuk> then I would suggest something like
[04:26] <Keybuk> dpkg 1.14.4+svn20070304-0ubuntu1
[04:26] <iwj> We might later choose to either merge from somewhere in svn, or to merge from sid.
[04:26] <Keybuk> where 1.14.4 is the last Debian release
[04:26] <StevenK> svn20070604, surely?
[04:26] <iwj> svn<whatever>, right :-).
[04:26] <Keybuk> StevenK: I just made up a number without looking at the date :p
[04:26] <StevenK> Keybuk: :-P
[04:27] <Keybuk> you could also use
[04:27] <Keybuk> 1.14.5~svn20070604-0ubuntu1
[04:27] <Keybuk> where 1.14.5 is the next version to be released
[04:27] <Keybuk> depending whether you want the version number to mean "1.14.4 and some more bits" or "the work towards 1.14.5 taken from svn at this date"
[04:27] <Keybuk> both would work
[04:27] <iwj> And single tarball is still fine ?  OK.
[04:28] <iwj> .4+ or .5~> I don't think there's much of a distinction in this case.
[04:28] <Keybuk> the -0ubuntu1 makes it clear to the sync and merge stuff that this is something done in ubuntu
[04:28] <iwj> Right, OK.
[04:28] <Keybuk> "the first ubuntu revision of an upstream version that's not packaged in Debian yet"
[04:31] <pygi> dholbach, you have some time? I wanna bug you to try out something :)
[04:32] <dholbach> pygi: a tiny little bit only
[04:32] <pygi> dholbach, oh, I'll bug you later then :)
[04:32] <dholbach> ok thanks :)
[04:42] <iwj> StevenK: If you're still seeing warnings from dpkg-foobar please do c&p one and let me know.  Any remaining warnings that you see with 1.14.4ubuntu2 are not fixed upstream so it would be good to know about them.
[04:43] <Hobbsee> iwj: (he's gone to bed)
[04:46] <cjwatson> BenC: do you have any idea why keyboard input in gutsy when using vmware might be very much slower than in feisty?
[04:47] <cjwatson> it takes something like half a second to a second to process each keypress
[05:09] <iwj> Mithrandir: Let me know if dpkg 1.14.4+svn20070602r802-0ubuntu1 doesn't sort out your lpia problem.
[05:37] <BenC> cjwatson: no idea why. I hadn't noticed that in my vmware install, but mine is just console
[05:46] <pitti> tepsipakki: recent xorg upload introduced a dependency xorg-docs for xorg, but that's in universe; there needs to be either a MIR or dropping the depends to a suggests or so
[05:48] <pitti> tepsipakki: NB that a MIR needs to be accompanied by one for xorg-sgml-doctools, since that's a build dep
[06:12] <bryce> pitti, hmm, I don't think there's a reason we need xorg-docs as a depends for xorg.
[06:12] <geser> Mithrandir: please give-back tntdb on all archs. Thanks.
[06:13] <iwj> bryce: It seems odd that Debian introduced it as a Depends.  Until we know why I'd be cautious - it might be something to do with the /usr/X11R6 transition.
[06:14] <bryce> true
[06:42] <pitti> bryce: we need to get xorg installable until tomorrow, so for the moment I'd prefer loosening the dependency (if it doesn't break anything)
[06:43] <bryce> ok
[07:08] <bryce> pitti, this appears to be the entry for when xorg-docs was added:
[07:08] <bryce>  * Add xorg-docs to the xorg package dependencies. There's some very usefu
[07:08] <bryce> l
[07:08] <bryce>     manpages in there, among other things.
[07:08] <bryce>  -- David Nusinow<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Sun,  4 Mar 2007 15:38:57 -0500
[07:09] <pitti> bryce: I looked at that changelog entry, that's why I'd prefer the 'drop to suggests' approach for now
[07:09] <pitti> bryce: also in terms of CD size increase
[07:09] <pitti> bryce: it's only one MB of course, but it still matters for us
[07:10] <bryce> Suggests or Recommends?
[07:11] <pitti> bryce: main Recommends: should be resolvable in main (since our tools install them by default), so Suggests:
[07:20] <bryce> pitti, would you mind reviewing this change?  This is the first change I've done for the xorg package:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~bryce/Uploads/
[07:21] <pitti> bryce: what's the change exactly? there's no new xorg package there
[07:22] <pitti> bryce: also, can you please put a debdiff there for me to review? (for the packages you want to modify)
[07:22] <pitti> bryce: oh, I see, you created xorg 1:7.2-3ubuntu2
[07:22] <pitti> bryce: that already exists, though (tepsipakki uploaded it a few hours ago)
[07:24] <bryce> debdiff posted
[07:25] <pitti> bryce: looks fine, when you apply that to the -3ubuntu2 in the archive
[07:25] <pitti> bryce: <nitpick>the changelog could give the rationale, something like 'because it is in universe and we need to save CD space' or so</nitpick>
[07:26] <bryce> ok
[07:27] <bryce> hmm, according to apt-cache madison, 1:7.2-3ubuntu1 is the latest, so 1:7.2-3ubuntu2 should be the next number, no?
[07:28] <pitti> bryce: apt-get update :)
[07:28] <mdz> shawarma: was it you who mentioned network-manager-openvpn to me at UDS?
[07:28] <pitti>       xorg | 1:7.2-3ubuntu2 | http://archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main Sources
[07:28] <shawarma> mdz: I may very well have.
[07:28] <mdz> shawarma: my impression was that we should Just Do It
[07:28] <bryce> aha
[07:29] <shawarma> mdz: yes?
[07:29] <shawarma> mdz: I've got an long overdue update on my TODO list, but the current version should (mostly) work.
[07:29] <mdz> shawarma: is there work to be done on the server side?
[07:30] <shawarma> mdz: Well... If the server doesn't push DNS settings, the client acts... well, funny.
[07:30] <mdz> what about -vpnc?
[07:30] <shawarma> mdz: That's even better.
[07:30] <shawarma> mdz: I'm working on updating the UI to work with some of the new features in vpnc 0.4.
[07:30] <pitti> bryce: I need to go now, so I cannot sponsor this, sorry
[07:31] <shawarma> mdz: (mainly being able to use the encoded passwords from Cisco's pcf files)
[07:32] <mdz> shawarma: sounds like a project for a later date then
[07:32] <mdz> openvpn seems like it might be a nice ubuntu server + ubuntu clients solution
[07:32] <shawarma> Oh, definitely.
[07:33] <shawarma> mdz: this Ebox thing does VPN, too.
[07:33] <mdz> shawarma: what's the backend?
[07:33] <shawarma> mdz: Openvpn.
[07:33] <mdz> oh, neat
[07:33] <shawarma> mdz: I've got an e-mail to you about that's almost done.
[07:33] <shawarma> mdz: Give me a minute.
[07:33] <mdz> shawarma: if it works in the version we ship, we should definitely consider shipping the client side as well
[07:34] <shawarma> mdz: Sure, that makes perfect sense.
[07:35] <mdz> shawarma: I'll read your email when it comes and then we can talk further tomorrowish
[07:35] <shawarma> mdz: Oh, I've got tomorrow off.
[07:35] <shawarma> mdz: Constitution day.
[07:35] <mdz> aha
[07:35] <mdz> I don't have dk holidays in my calendar yet
[07:36] <shawarma> There. Added to my calendar.
[07:39] <shawarma> mdz: Mail sent.
[07:49] <tepsipakki> pitti, bryce, iwj: xorg depends on xorg-docs because "There's some very useful manpages in there, among other things."
[07:50] <tepsipakki> but I can upload a new version
[07:50] <tepsipakki> moving the dep to Suggests as in bryce's patch
[07:50] <bryce> cool, thanks
[07:51] <tepsipakki> we can sort that out later
[07:51] <tepsipakki> xorg-docs, that is
[07:51] <bryce> btw, I'm also looking at another recent issue reported
[07:51] <tepsipakki> shoot
[07:51] <bryce> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/118661
[07:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118661 in xorg "[gutsy]  xserver-xorg (1:7.2-3ubuntu1) configure error" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[07:52] <tepsipakki> that's fixed in -3ubuntu2 :)
[07:52] <bryce> ahh, ok cool
[07:53] <bryce> closing as fixed
[07:56] <tepsipakki> uploaded
[07:56] <tepsipakki> now home ->
[07:57] <bryce> cya
[08:44] <ashrack> hello! I was just wondering how come with the latest feisty kernel the NVIDIA NFORCE2 PATA driver has been disabled from the new Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers' and the old ATA driver is now used again AMD and nVidia IDE support (BLK_DEV_AMD74XX).
[10:10] <keescook> Keybuk: can you confirm bug 118164?  I'm shy to add any deps to udev, but it looks correct.
[10:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118164 in udev "Missing udev dependency: adduser" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/118164
[10:11] <Keybuk> keescook: yup, seems reasonable
[10:12] <keescook> Keybuk: okay, I'll commit it, thanks.
[10:13] <Keybuk> commit?
[10:13] <keescook> commit meaning "stuff it into the package and upload it"
[10:14] <Keybuk> :)
[10:14] <Keybuk> was just checking
[10:16] <Keybuk> keescook: there are LP branches of udev that I've never been able to eradicate
[10:17] <Keybuk> (which I don't use)
[10:17] <keescook> heh.  yeah, I didn't think there was a vcs for it.  you scared me for a second.  :)
[10:18] <Keybuk> I've not found a model of source-package-in-vcs that I'm happy with
[10:18] <Mithrandir> iwj: thanks, I'll take a look.
[10:18] <Mithrandir> geser: given-back
[10:46] <sabdfl_> in a bash script, is it easy to read a word from the console?
[10:46] <sabdfl_> i'd like to read a variable, and pre-seed it with a default
[10:46] <sabdfl_> like:
[10:46] <sabdfl_> What is your username? [mark]  _
[10:47] <sabdfl_> enter would return "mark"
[10:47] <Mithrandir> DEF="mark"; printf "What is your username? [$DEF]  " ; read FOO ; if [ -z "$FOO" ] ; then FOO="$DEF" ; fi
[10:47] <pygi> sabdfl_, use read and see if input is empty?
[10:47] <pygi> meh :P
[10:47] <kylem> heh. Mithrandir is faster than i am.
[10:47] <pygi> Mithrandir, :)
[10:49] <sabdfl_> thanks Mithrandir, pygi


 @TartanSpartan, as i noted, it is a front for ffmpeg. It is still ffmpeg that does the work. It took 2-3 hrs because that is how much it takes for ffmpeg on your platform to process.  … And added value of my software is that u get GUI instead of CLI, which is somwtimes what u want, and somwtimes not. The CLI version of my tool also makes an output that is easier to parse than the ome that ffmpeg creates. So the added value is if u want to
[00:07] <tgBot3> automate the ffmpeg. Parsing output will be easier.
 @TartanSpartan, that is bwcause i did not upload armhf version. but yes it compiles on ARM.
 @Cesar_Herrera, well u said nothing except you were not able to. No error terms no nothing. Ican only blindly guess you have not authorized raspi keo on ut.
 i already have written an ezplanation. U can use this tools to import key from raspi to ut: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ssh-pull-id/
 and here is theory part that you should probably read:  … http://kriscode.blogspot.hk/2017/12/ssh-and-ubuntu-touch.html
 (Photo, 2560x1440) https://irc.ubports.com/fwgZGX9Z/file_3748.jpg
 unity4
 I realy want to congratulate with all of you.. ubuntu-touch is running so good even on legacy devices.. thank you ubports people!
 Does anyone know how big the /cache partition should be on turbo?
 mine's 495.9M and it runs out of space installing xenial
 nevermind, apparently it should be 700MB
 I'm trying to follow the anbox instructions, but the images don't download. @neothethird @Flohack
 It's just me? Can anyone try? cdimage.ubports.com/anbox-images/
 @andreasimonetti, unity 4... nice. ha
 where can I post an anbox issue?
 @andreasimonetti, wow, i love cat.
 because i'm a cat.
 @Rekols, you're a cute one
 Donated to UBports and am now a Patreon. Keep up the brilliant work everyone, you're all fantastic! Thank you so much!
 Thanks  ^^
[07:06] <tgBot3> Keith Vladimir was added by: Keith Vladimir
 Hospital abandona mulher doente na rua ao frio > TVI24 … http://www.tvi24.iol.pt/internacional/baltimore/hospital-abandona-mulher-doente-na-rua-ao-frio
 @Keith Vladimir, Hi Keith! I'm part of the Welcoming Team. Please read https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome to get up to speed and feel free to ask any question, especially in the Newcomers Room!
 @Rekols, Me too ;-)
 Did the Ubports team make any change/fix to the original Ubuntu Touch Music app?
[09:20] <tgBot3> Mojahed_Yavazi was added by: Mojahed_Yavazi
 @Mojahed_Yavazi, Welcome Mojahed! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @PacoIgnazioTaiboII, DOesn't look like there has been any recent commits https://github.com/ubports/music-app/commits/master what exactly are you wanting fixed?
 Equliser settings should be add in music app
[10:27] <tgBot3> joancipria was added by: joancipria
 https://t.me/TheMinimalD … Pls guys add this channel
 @joancipria, Welcome Joan! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
 @onajjar, why?
 Sorry sorry
 Mistake
 Not meant to this group
 Spam?
 Nope
 Design channel
 Sorry again
 @onajjar, 👍
 🌹
 @joancipria, May I ask what is your first language? We have Catalan and Sardinian groups 😎
[11:03] <tgBot3> cyr r was added by: cyr r
 @PacoIgnazioTaiboII, No but now canonical server shut down so iirc album and arist info/covers won't be loaded
 Yeah the thumbnailer library needs updating to use another service (like https://www.discogs.com/developers/ if someones up for the challenge)
 @cyr r, Hello Cyr. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
[11:38] <tgBot3> KuranKaname was added by: KuranKaname
 @KuranKaname, Hello Kuran. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 what is changing in system.img  when I add ubports-boot to the device tree?
 I have 2 device tree … One  with ubports-boot … One without … Both compile … The system.img from ubports boots … The system.img from the other tree don't boot … Any idea why?
 The system.img has nothing to do with booting. ubports-boot and hybris-boot do the initial work and system.img is mounted later
 If you want to debug Halium without ubports-boot, use hybris-boot
 @Stereofont, Oh nice! Catalan is my first
 hi Joan, there is a spanish group of UBports
 https://t.me/UBPorts_ES
 @joancipria, https://t.me/UBports_ca
 I Love ubports
[15:05] <tgBot3> CristianSW was added by: CristianSW
 @CristianSW, Hello Cristian and welcome!  I'm part of the UBports welcoming team.    … To help you get started, please take a look right away at our newcomers welcome page (https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome) and thanks again for joining us! :)
 @Rekols, 😁
 @dohbee, But it is exactly what's happening. When on WiFi, great stand-by battery life. As soon as I switch to mobile data, it starts eating battery like a motherfucker with no usage whatsoever. When I stop Ubuntu push client: back to normal. So...something's up.
 @Mattias, YES.
 Hmm i keep getting  … ```2018/01/13 15:55:16 error pushing: failed to copy '/home/dan/.cache/ubuntuimages/gpg/image-master.tar.xz' to '/cache/recovery//image-master.tar.xz': Permission denied```
 when trying to flash my device. ANyone know how to resolve it?
 `sudo chown dan:dan ~/.cache/ubuntuimages -R`
 @UniversalSuperBox I tried that but still get the same error 😐
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/26378825/ is the full output
 Hmm, remove the ubuntuimages folder altogether?
 And run without sudo, you probably have udev rules for that phone.
 ack trying now
[16:14] <tgBot3> mehmetkose was added by: mehmetkose
 @mehmetkose, Welcome Mehmet! Ask questions, join in. Glad to have you in our community. https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for lots of newcomer information 🚪
[16:27] <tgBot3> Ashutripathi was added by: Ashutripathi
 Hello Ashtosh. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 Thank you lionelb
 https://t.me/UBports_India
 @Ashutripathi, Anything we can help with?
 I have few devices not in use,if they can get ported on ubuntu … I am ubuntu desktop user since 2003 and so this is very close to my heart. My goal is to see ubuntu devices in market and i understand this will be challenge for me as well to identify and manage all the stake holders.i hope you will guide me to step ahead... … I am a business analyst and a superfan of ubuntu. more details... https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashutrip
 @Ashutripathi, We have a few supported devices. The difficulty is that each one needs a purpose made port. Also, we cannot simply adopt those which lineage support. If you have a device which runs UBports we can get started straight away. Otherwise, it takes a particular type of developer to start work on porting a new phone
 I suggest you install on something like a Nexus 5 or OnePlusOne to start, so that you can see how Ubuntu Touch functions
 Unfortunately i have motorola and samsung devices, i can talk few developers who were earlier with samsung and qualcomm, lets see if i can convince them
 @UniversalSuperBox, Looks like perm issue on phone side
 Most if the more 'open' devices are Qualcomm powered, so that is a good start. Although there are not obvious targets there are some Wileyfox devices, based and very small in UK but very popular in India and Turkey. They are budget devices. Users here from Turkey are very enthusiastic about them
 For more mainstream devices should look at the porting work done by the Halium project. It aims to create a compatibility layer over an Android base, to present a uniform foundation for UT, Plasma etc
 Yes, i was talking to vijay for connecting me to halium
 @JBBgameich, so why do I have this when I boot pure halium...?  … (I don't use ubports-boot I only use hybris-boot)
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/3BYMMsAa/file_3752.jpg
 I don't understand why I have a Ubports warning on a pure Halium device ^^
 @Ashutripathi, There are partial ports which could be taken forward more actively or there are hundreds of devices not even considered. Not only are very closed proprietary next to impossible to address, they also don't really suit what we are trying to do
 @vince1171, system.img is contains the minimal android system and drivers. hybris-boot or ubports-boot contain the kernel and a few scripts for booting
 @vince1171, Looks like you flashed ubports-boot
 At least not hybris-boot
 What will be different when you flash hybris-boot vs ubports-boot?
 @Ashutripathi, Motorola G5plus?
 @Stereofont, Yes exactly
 okay … nop I'm sure I don't ^^ … I redownload the entire tree juste to be sure that I'll not have any ubports-boot's part in my compiled images
 Don't use the old initrd-builder in github.com/halium for porting btw
 @Ashutripathi, I have got it wrong once before but I think that is one being ported
 why can I see only gps and accelerometer dat in SensorStatus with the nexus5? shouldn't it have more sensors?
 @JBBgameich, I don't use any initrd  … I only use fastboot hybris-boot.img … and your halium-install script halium-rootfs-20170630-151006.tar.gz system.img … did I miss somethings very important?  like adding another image? ^^'
 sorry for all this annoying questions but It's my first try to port a device
 @vince1171, Did you run `fastboot flash boot hybris-boot.img`?
 yep … the go to twrp … copy system.img from hilum/out/the/path/to/system.img and the rootfs to my clone of your halium intall script … then … launcher.sh install halium-rootfs-20170630-151006.tar.gz system.img
 *rootfs I downloaded from the link in docs.halium.com
 @vince1171, You are welcome to use Lab1 if you wish. JBB can invite you
 There's a link in the Halium docs to the Halium group. I'd suggest that one
 it is a dedicated groups for beginners like me? ^^
 for the Halium group i'm already in … but I asked my question here because of this
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/s3YdNS4l/file_3752.jpg
 Update the ubports-boot repository. That was fixed this week.
 the curious thing is that I dont have ubports-boot in my tree ^^
 Clean then bild
 (Photo, 928x1056) https://irc.ubports.com/olvbcQoo/file_3754.jpg
 Yes, do `make clean` then build again.
 Also, terminal output is more useful than screenshots.
 ok I'll use pastebin the next time … cleaning in progress...
 done
 I'll rebuild … It take me +- 25-35 min
 @Stereofont, Is lab1 an helping group?
 @vince1171, Good for lengthy one on one meetings but there is nobody routinely there to help with ports. So good if someone has already offered
 @Ashutripathi, Welcome home!
 Glad to be back, per sonne
[18:55] <tgBot3> szmalc was added by: szmalc
 I have ub touch bq m10fhd and I want to install ub ports. … I used several methods but it never worked. … From ubunut-device-flash i got  … "Cache formatting was not successful, flashing may fail, check your partitions on device" … then it looked like everything is fine, on tablet was written "Updating ubuntu touch..." but it was displaying for long time and nothing was updated. Does anyone know what is wrong?
 @szmalc, Hello Mark. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 Click on the link to get to the install room
[19:06] <tgBot3> Man was added by: Man
 @Man, https://forums.ubports.com/topic/263/can-t-get-the-m10-fhd-to-take-the-flash
 @Man, Hello Man. Welcome! Check https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome … Not-a-bot™ Ask, chat, explore!
 I have a problem with Owncloud-sync with syncevolution. If I create a contact on the phone or on OC it gets synchronized, if I delete a contact on OC it is deleted on the phone after synchronization. But, if I delete the contact on the phone it will not be deleted on the OC-Server. Does anybody know that issue?
[21:08] <tgBot3> Depaulicious was added by: Depaulicious
 @Depaulicious, \o … Hi and Welcome! … Check out https://ubports.com/page/telegram-welcome for a warmer welcome!
 haz you read the news?
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdiIwXK2ssQ
 Yes
 And already tweeted on it
 (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/9vzIfNgN/file_3758
 Any word on anbox for the OnePlus One (bacon)
 @xreactx, Problems with graphics rendering. Seems to affect some Qualcomm hardware. We are on it
 @Flohack, Good to go. Thanks.
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/C0w7t2Mj/file_3760.png
 oh, sorry , wrong place , i want send it to Mongobär
 Then delete it
 Ok
 Florian, is it gone ?
 is gone yes
 ok
 thx
 now we dont have the armhf resources for vivid
 So, the Canonical app store finaly shutdown
 Yes
 @rubencarneiro, Que?
 @dohbee, End of an era
 @dohbee, és portugues
 What do you mean about vivid armhf?
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/5q2I3dBJ/file_3762.jpg
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/UOi1ez00/file_3764.png
 Your sources.list is wrong
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/Ljx522uW/file_3766.jpg
 @dohbee, why
 It's an EOL release. It moved to old-releases
 @dohbee, can you provide the link
 I'm in an airport, so not really
 can anyone here provide that?
 the internet? just do a 15sec search in duckduckgo
 If you have a ubports install, copy from the latest phone image
 uau you all so helpfull
 how bigger this gets more stupid it gets
 What are you talking about Ruben
 use this http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/
 whem we were only 100, we will get bet support
 @mariogrip, thanks marius
 http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/main/binary-armhf/
 This isn't support. This is a community.
 VERY different things.
 No one knew the link, man. There's no need to get upset at that.
 This. Is. Sparta.