[00:00] <webpigeon> o/
[00:03] <jutnux> WOO
[00:13] <gordonjcp> right, time to cut some video
[00:16] <jutnux> I am back.
[00:27] <zleap> wb
[00:28] <HazRPG> okay I think I've managed to narrow down my sound issue a little bit
[03:14] <tidenburg> #
[07:52] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning
[07:55] <popey> Morning
[07:55] <popey> #club-alan
[07:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-D
[07:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Are you all set for Christmas popey ?
[07:57] <djones> Good morning all
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning djones
[07:58] <djones> Hi
[07:58] <popey> nope
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Me neither ;-)
[07:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am going to try and do some shopping today.
[07:58] <popey> Going to Oxford Street as usual tomorrow
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Arghhhh!
[07:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> That is just mad
[08:00] <shauno> sounds like a setup for some extreme ironing
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> At Oxford Circus - That would be fun.
[08:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> wow - Mozilla to get $300m/yr from Google for the search tie in. http://allthingsd.com/20111222/google-will-pay-mozilla-almost-300m-per-year-in-search-deal-besting-microsoft-and-yahoo/
[08:03] <shauno> do they mention what the current agreement is?
[08:04] <AlanBell> In 2010, Google contributed 84 percent of Mozilla’s $123 million in revenue
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> It ended in Nov. Was probably about $100m by the sounds of it
[08:05] <shauno> quite a leap then.  seems counterintuitive when they have a better browser of their own now
[08:06] <AlanBell> I don't think google mind people using Firefox at all, they don't like rubbish browsers existing
[08:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think Google like competition too. It keeps everyone on their toes and encourages innovation.
[08:07] <shauno> just an interesting position to be that financially dependant on your closest competition
[08:09] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: nah, London is dead on xmas eve
[08:09] <popey> I arrive at 8am to have breakfast before shopping. it's lovely
[08:10] <shauno> I'm doing my usual for christmas; 60 hours in 5 days, then I run off giggling with my pockets full of overtime
[08:12] <popey> http://twitpic.com/3j04gu
[08:12] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:13] <shauno> and then off to the UK for christmas \o/
[08:13] <shauno> er, new years, rather
[08:36] <MooDoo> morning
[09:00] <MooDoo> -
[09:02] <BigRedS> good morning!
[09:09] <christel> morning -uk!
[09:09] <MooDoo> morning christel :) x
[09:10] <christel> how are you this fine morning?
[09:11] <MooDoo> not to bad, completed the food shopping at 7:30 this morning, even then sainsburys was packed
[09:13] <christel> well done!
[09:14] <MooDoo> christel: i was mad :d
[09:17] <christel> i can imagine, mad in more ways than one i'd say! ;)
[09:18] <MooDoo> christel: oi you :p
[09:18] <christel> :P
[09:19] <christel> i need to brave the shops and get a couple more presents today, then i may consider myself done
[09:19]  * MooDoo gives christel a kiss on the cheek, merry christmas luv :)
[09:19] <MooDoo> lol
[09:19] <christel> wooo
[09:19] <christel> merry christmas you! <3
[09:31] <shauno> rather disappointed at how many people showed up for work today.  Came all equipped for a day's gaming :(
[09:31] <jutnux> Morning all.
[09:42] <AlanBell> MooDoo: is there a unicode mistletoe?
[09:43] <MooDoo> ⚘?
[09:43] <popey> 茑
[09:43] <popey> convovulous!
[09:45] <AlanBell> ⚘  doesn't look quite right, like a flower from teletubbies or something
[09:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good stuff: http://www.cabletv.com/doctor-who-timeline
[09:50] <MooDoo> helen mirren for the dr :D
[09:52] <jutnux> I think the beeb should keep Amy Pond.
[09:52] <jutnux> or whoever plays her
[09:53] <christel> i quite like amy pond
[09:53] <swat_> she's pretty hot!
[09:54] <jutnux> Indeed
[09:54] <christel> quite
[09:57] <DJones> Can anybody recommend an online email provider for business, we've got an antique internal pop3 email server and planning to replace/upgrade in the new year.  We've got multiple branches and people move around the branches fairly regularly, so having email online is one of teh suggestions from our IT support firm, a new exchange server is also being suggested
[09:58] <DJones> Their suggestions at the moment is for an Exchange server (either hosted or inhouse)
[09:58] <swat_> drussell: vpwsys.net
[09:58] <swat_> woops
[09:58] <swat_> DJones: vpwsys.net
[09:59] <chrisjrob> DJones: I've only heard good things about gmail, thinking of moving across myself
[09:59] <drussell> swat_: heh sorry to mess up your autocomplete ;o)
[09:59]  * MartijnVdS uses gmail. ♥ it
[09:59] <chrisjrob> to be clear, already use gmail for personal, but considering for business
[10:00] <chrisjrob> very affordable + probably the best anti-spam
[10:00] <DJones> I was thinking a domain based gmail could be an option, would certainly have advantages, but all suggestions welcome
[10:00] <chrisjrob> + office + excellent webmail
[10:00] <chrisjrob> hard for anything else to compete tbh
[10:01] <chrisjrob> currently I just set-up a postfix vps for email
[10:01] <swat_> DJones: have nothing but praise for vpwsys.net, very clued up guys, reasonable prices
[10:01] <swat_> though the google solution could work, depending on how much you trust them
[10:01] <chrisjrob> well there is that
[10:01] <AlanBell> and whether you have jurisdictional issues
[10:01] <chrisjrob> although the enterprise terms of service are supposedly that much more reasonable
[10:01] <swat_> AlanBell: pangolin all done and running
[10:02] <AlanBell> yay
[10:02] <swat_> AlanBell: and i have to say, mightily impressed so far, it's like ocelot but a bit less 'sticky' :)
[10:02] <popey> hurrah
[10:03] <DJones> swat_: Just looking at the Agility Mail service, would probably cost £6K per year for the pro service for 40+ email addresses
[10:03] <DJones> Although it does talk about bespoke for more than 10 email addresses
[10:04] <chrisjrob> yikes
[10:04] <chrisjrob> DJones: how many users?
[10:04] <DJones> chrisjrob: 40+
[10:04] <chrisjrob> ah okay, sorry
[10:04] <chrisjrob> same as us
[10:05] <chrisjrob> we have about 50
[10:05] <chrisjrob> very very happy with a bytemark vps + postfix + dovecot
[10:05] <chrisjrob> using the bytemark greylisting anti-spam solution, which is dirt cheap
[10:05] <DJones> Some of which have very large mailboxes, we're in the holiday industry, so multiple emails overseas daily with brochures etc
[10:06] <chrisjrob> DJones: depends what you mean by very large, our largest around about 3gb
[10:06] <swat_> DJones: it's probably worth emailing them with some requirements - as you say, they do bespoke solutions
[10:06] <popey> To the cloud!
[10:06] <chrisjrob> our total annual cost is about £700
[10:06] <chrisjrob> and that's because I massively overspecced the VPS
[10:06] <chrisjrob> and so far zero downtime
[10:07] <chrisjrob> since 2007
[10:09]  * jutnux upgrades to pangolin
[10:09] <popey> yay jutnux
[10:09] <popey> everyone is doing it ☺
[10:10] <swat_> popey: yup yup!
[10:10] <jutnux> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade right?#
[10:10] <jutnux> It's early in the morning and my brain doesn't function
[10:11] <popey> no
[10:11] <popey> update-manager -d
[10:11] <popey> or
[10:11] <popey> sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[10:11] <jutnux> Gotcha
[10:12] <popey> to upgrade to Precise Pangolin
[10:13] <jutnux> 15 minutes remaining \o/
[10:14] <zleap> yay i now have a tab on firefox that lists episodes of uupc
[10:14] <popey> mine took about 3 hours
[10:14] <jutnux> Firefox :-(
[10:14] <popey> \o/ firefox
[10:14] <popey> i switched back from chrome to firefox
[10:14] <jutnux> I don't know whether I look it or not
[10:14] <drussell> firefox ftw
[10:14] <jutnux> like
[10:15] <jutnux> Chrome keeps being a biatch
[10:15] <andylockran> :)
[10:15] <jutnux> 700kb/s a second
[10:15] <jutnux> Fastest my Internet has everrrrrrrrrrr been
[10:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:17] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps. Anybody bothering to do any work today?
[10:17] <andylockran> bigcalm: yep :D
[10:17] <andylockran> I'm working on using the percona toolkit to check data integrity in MySQL replication.
[10:18] <DJones> bigcalm: For a change, I am :)
[10:18] <DJones> Although whether investigating hosted email counts as work is another matter :)
[10:18] <dwatkins> of course it does
[10:19] <dwatkins> well, unless you're a primary school teacher or something else unrelated
[10:19] <dwatkins> Work is anything that helps me help my customers. I consider listening to podcasts as work, even though I do it in the car on the way to work.
[10:20] <DJones> Just looking at Google Apps to see if that is a feasable option
[10:20] <dwatkins> I may switch my domain away from GoDaddy thanks to them supporting SOPA.
[10:21] <AlanBell> we have a bunch of domains there
[10:21] <popey> yeah, I'm considering the same myself
[10:21] <popey> ghandi seem popular alternatives
[10:22] <andylockran> I like gandi
[10:22] <MartijnVdS> gandi.net is wonderful
[10:22] <andylockran> free glue records :D
[10:23]  * MartijnVdS sniffs some glue records
[10:24] <dwatkins> changeip were a cheap choice a while back, not sure what their stance on it is
[10:24] <dwatkins> I'm still amazed it's even come to this
[10:24] <jutnux> dwatkins: Creator of CheezBurger is moving his 1000 domains from GoDaddy.
[10:25] <dwatkins> jutnux: yeah, among many others from what I understand - they still seem to be saying it's not making any difference to them, although that may just be them ignoring the issue
[10:26] <popey> him moving 1000 domains does mean nothing to them
[10:26] <popey> him _telling_ everyone he's moving 1000 domains is another thing
[10:26] <dwatkins> indeed, a drop in the ocean in real terms, but yes, the impact of the whole boycott should be significant
[10:27] <bigcalm> Considering that Apple also support SOPA, where's the boycott?
[10:27] <jutnux> I've never bought an Apple Product.
[10:27] <jutnux> Apart from an iPod which I got for Christmas.
[10:27] <dwatkins> Microsoft does too, but I imagine many of us boycott them already ;)
[10:28] <bigcalm> Apple is more than just hardware
[10:28] <bigcalm> QuickTime, iTunes, Safari, etc
[10:28] <jutnux> I honestly doubt SOPA will pull through.
[10:28] <dwatkins> It doesn't look like it's being stopped, jutnux :-/
[10:28] <jutnux> If it does, I guess TOR will be used more often.
[10:28] <dwatkins> Tor is made illegal by SOPA.
[10:29] <jutnux> It is ridiculous.
[10:29] <dwatkins> So was privatising the postal system.
[10:29] <jutnux> Meh, never send post.
[10:29] <jutnux> It'll be a bad choice for America anyway, all of the companies will move somewhere else.
[10:30] <bigcalm> Anybody considered that GoDaddy will make a pretty penny from all of the transfer fees?
[10:31] <dwatkins> indeed, although many companies already have callcentres in cheaper countries etc.
[10:31] <jutnux> Perhaps. The call centres are being moved back to the UK though.
[10:31] <popey> bigcalm: once
[10:31] <popey> renewal fees are for life ☺
[10:32] <jutnux> Microsoft aren't supporting SOPA I don't think.
[10:34] <jutnux> 1 hour to install the upgrades, you kiddin'?!
[10:35] <dwatkins> I think they are a member of a business group which supports it, which means they support it by implication.
[10:35] <dwatkins> jutnux: yeah, I much prefer speaking to someone in my timezone
[10:35] <zleap> if they were really against I guess they would be more vocal about it,  end of the day they object to piracy too
[10:36] <dwatkins> yeah, the trouble is it can be so easily misused without due process
[10:37] <andylockran> yep
[10:37] <shauno> I think that's why most companies are tied on it.  it is a problem would benefit from a solution
[10:37] <shauno> but the currently proposed solutions are majorly broken
[10:37] <zleap> the whole issue on piracy is a joke i tried to report a trader a few years ago,  selling pirate dvds.   police not interestedf, cinema not interesed either trading standards website so complex,  it was our local monday market site,  now local trading standards officers would know where i mean,   i gave up with their website as i had no address or details
[10:39] <zleap> i am not going to bother in future for exactly the reasons above
[10:39] <dwatkins> They're trying to attack the tools used to pirate media, when those tools also have legitimate uses. They should be looking at the reasons people copy stuff, and how they can make it pointless, e.g. making stuff available online cheaply
[10:39] <zleap> exactly
[10:39] <jutnux> If I'm honest, I don't want to spend £15 on a DVD.
[10:39] <dwatkins> of course this cuts out the middlemen, who are the people trying to hold onto their business which is outdated
[10:39] <zleap> why can i buy a 50 blank dvds for 4.99 and yet get charged 15 quid for a dvd with a movie onit
[10:40] <jutnux> netflix would've been a choice except it's not on Ubuntu.
[10:40] <dwatkins> granted, I like having boxed sets of DVDs, but I'll happily pay a couple quid to watch a film online, or a few episodes of something when it comes out
[10:40] <bigcalm> zleap: you're paying for a licence to view the content, not the physical media itself
[10:40] <bigcalm> zleap: it's the same for audio CDs and software
[10:40] <zleap> bigcalm, its still a rip off
[10:40] <bigcalm> zleap: the customer never owns what they have bought
[10:41] <dwatkins> especially as DVDs fail after a few years of use, scratching etc.
[10:41] <popey> i dont buy DVDs any more
[10:41] <shauno> I very rarely buy physical media anymore
[10:41] <popey> my policy is 'if i am likely to watch it 3 times in my life, I'll but it'
[10:41] <bigcalm> I get other people to buy me blu-ray ;)
[10:41] <dwatkins> popey: do you rent stuff, itunes etc.?
[10:41] <jutnux> I only watch films once.
[10:41] <popey> i have itunes stuff recently
[10:41]  * zleap buys ubuntu cd's mainly
[10:41] <popey> but more often I just dont bother
[10:41] <popey> I watch on demand on virgin
[10:41] <popey> for the trip to the USA last year I filled an iPad up with films from itunes
[10:42] <bigcalm> popey: does that give you access to all films ever made?
[10:42] <popey> was _so_ easy.
[10:42] <popey> no, but i dont want to watch all films ever made
[10:42] <bigcalm> *grumble*
[10:42] <popey> i want to watch _something_
[10:42] <zleap> i gues the same is for e-books,  i guess
[10:42] <shauno> that's what's failing big media at the moment.  I don't care see purchases as paying for this film, that album anymore.  I see it as paying for convience
[10:42] <bigcalm> That's why we still buy odd films now and then. Mostly from our youth
[10:42] <popey> i still buy the odd thing but not much
[10:43] <popey> i have the classics like 2001, star wars etc
[10:43] <jutnux> Star Wars \o/
[10:43] <popey> but new stuff I just watch in HD and thats it
[10:43] <popey> I'd probably have bought Tron Legacy if I didnt rent it twice ☺
[10:43] <jutnux> I have never seen it.
[10:43] <bigcalm> Once we have a decent way of streaming media to the TV in the sitting room, then I'll be happy to stop buying DVDs. But I'm not there yet
[10:43]  * zleap has limited funds so will buy a film if I really like it,  I can go to the cinema cheap on a tuesday then if I really wnat to buy the movie I wil, usually when its been out for 6 months and costs <10
[10:43] <popey> bigcalm: Ubuntu TV!
[10:43] <popey> :D
[10:44] <bigcalm> popey: when is that released? ;)
[10:44] <popey> you mean 'when is that started'
[10:44] <bigcalm> Also, there's something fun about browsing the shelves
[10:44] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:44] <shauno> this is just asking for a boot, but I love my appletv :/  the software is pants, I replaced it with xbmc.  but the box itself is lovely
[10:45] <popey> yeah, i can understand that shauno
[10:45] <shauno> so far it's the only box I found for the telly which passes the neuroticly-tidy SO test
[10:46] <bigcalm> That's why I stopped using MythTV. The computer I built for it didn't fit in the TV cabinet
[10:46] <popey> shame the apple tv only does 720p
[10:46] <shauno> my telly only does 720, so that was a minor quibble for us
[10:46] <bigcalm> When I did replace it with the Revo and boxee, we rarely used it as it required faffing about
[10:46] <MartijnVdS> I use my Samsung TV's built-in video thingy
[10:47] <shauno> I wish someone would do a cablecard gizmo for that stuff
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> it does mkv (h264, aac, ac3, dts, even the "hd" variants)
[10:47] <bigcalm> Reduce the number of remote controls please! We already have 4 in use
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: logitech harmony \o/
[10:47] <shauno> a cablecard with an arm & xbmc.  that'd be perfect
[10:47] <popey> is that badu?
[10:47] <chrisjrob> put mythtv in the garage, and use your TV to play mythtv
[10:47] <chrisjrob> works very well, for some reason the picture wuality is greatly improved
[10:48] <chrisjrob> all you need is a DLNA TV
[10:48] <chrisjrob> like samsung
[10:48] <chrisjrob> "all share"
[10:48] <jutnux> Allshare <3
[10:48] <shauno> I'm not buying a new telly for something a $99 box can do :/
[10:49] <dwatkins> chrisjrob: I'm considering something like that, it would be nice to get it top integrate with my Sky box too
[10:49] <dwatkins> My TV does DLNA, thankfully.
[10:50] <chrisjrob> only problem I have hit is that I have transcoded my entire music collection to ogg, which samsung cannot play
[10:50] <chrisjrob> to think, I had it all in mp3 format
[10:50] <chrisjrob> *sigh*
[10:50] <dwatkins> I saw a Panasonic 3D TV with DLNA the other day, I much prever the menus on the Bravia.
[10:50] <shauno> you transcoded lossy to lossy for a compatibility and quality hit, just because you wanted ogg?
[10:51] <chrisjrob> shauno: well i re-rippped rather than transcoded, but yes
[10:51] <shauno> ah, that nerfs the quality arguement then
[10:52] <dwatkins> I hope you did so at a nice high bitrate ;)
[10:52] <chrisjrob> i was ill in bed for a week with pneumonia, felt like crap, but i could just about hit the buttons to rip my music
[10:52] <chrisjrob> it took almost the entire week
[10:52] <shauno> I don't have originals to rip from anymore.  I've bought three CDs since .. 2002.  and anything I had before that is in a box in my father's attic
[10:52] <chrisjrob> and now I waish i hadn't
[10:53] <chrisjrob> I think I need pneumonia again
[10:53] <dwatkins> or a CD Changer ;)
[10:53] <shauno> put it off until you build a new machine.  then throw it all at it in one huge batch job as a) burn-in, b) justification for buying unimaginally fast hardware :)
[10:54] <chrisjrob> :)
[10:54] <dwatkins> http://hackadaycom.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/automated-cd-ripper.jpg chrisjrob
[10:54] <dwatkins> assuming the CDDB has them all, that is
[10:55] <chrisjrob> actually, I looked into backing up my music collection online, and it worked out that the cost of so doing was higher than the cost of subscribing to an unlimited music download service, should such a catastrophe ever befall me
[10:55] <dwatkins> I keep two copies my my media, it's simpler to buy another 2 TB disk and just copy the directory
[10:55] <chrisjrob> dwatkins: how delightfully hacky
[10:55] <dwatkins> *of
[10:55] <jutnux> 31 minutes \o/
[10:55] <dwatkins> chrisjrob: yeah, I'd be tempted to build one if I had enough CDs I cared to rip
[10:55] <chrisjrob> dwatkins: and you store that off-site...
[10:56] <dwatkins> chrisjrob: yep, 400 miles away
[10:56] <chrisjrob> dwatkins: well done :)
[10:56] <dwatkins> recovery might take a while, of course
[10:57] <dwatkins> anyway, it's just media, nothing personal (I don't have kids who have made musical recitals I've captured on video or anything, my brother loses that kind of thing occasionally, though)
[10:57] <dwatkins> if you have only one copy of data, be very careful which power adapter you connect to your external disk enclosure.
[10:58] <dwatkins> He fried the PCB on the disk and the internals of the disk itself
[10:58] <zleap> ouch
[10:58] <zleap> i know someone who did that with a portable cd player,  he got from the US, plugged a different adaptor in, wrong voltage and it burnt out
[11:00] <popey> chrisjrob: upload your music to google music?
[11:00] <dwatkins> at least that would have just fried the player and perhaps a single CD, this was a 350 GB disk  with a bunch of mp3s of his kids :'(
[11:01] <jutnux> :-(
[11:01] <jutnux> Google Music is only in the US isn't it?
[11:01] <dwatkins> oh and pictures too - I suspect he might try and recover the disk when he has a spare couple hundred quid
[11:01] <chrisjrob> yes, i looked into that
[11:01] <jutnux> Because I'd love to use it.
[11:01] <dwatkins> There's Amazon's music service too, but I think you pay if you have a lot of music
[11:01] <dwatkins> Google will probably make their service available in the UK soon.
[11:03] <zleap> yeah i should get a 2nd hdd really to back up the first one
[11:03] <dwatkins> rsync for teh win
[11:03] <zleap> sever small drives is somehow better than 1 big drive
[11:03] <dwatkins> heh, I can't talk about the advantages of speed, my media is connected to my "server" (a netbook) via USB ;)
[11:04] <DJones> MooDoo: Are you around for a pm?
[11:04] <MooDoo> DJones: as long as it involves christmas cheer :D
[11:04] <zleap> yeah data recovery is exensive, i went to a talk by the vancouver lug in 2006, you are talking megabucks for firedamage esp as they can take the hdd apart and put it back to gether again
[11:04] <DJones> Cheers :)
[11:05] <dwatkins> zleap: yeah, I think it starts at the high hundreds/thousands
[11:05] <zleap> yeah
[11:05] <zleap> this was back in 2006
[11:05] <zleap> it was a really interesting talk,  and they use lots of Linux / free tools to do it :),  whicj is why there were at a lug meet
[11:06] <dwatkins> I asked about it at a similar time on behalf of a customer in my last job
[11:07] <shauno> I heard itunes match launched in the UK, so I can't imagine amazon music is far behind; it's mostly the same agreements with the same labels
[11:07] <shauno> er, google music, rather
[11:07] <popey> hope so
[11:07] <popey> I am uploading my entire collection to google music ☺
[11:08] <shauno> barely related, but I'm looking forward to seeing what netflix' offering looks like over here.  they're slated to launch within the next quarter
[11:08] <zleap> cool
[11:09] <shauno> especially interesting for me as lovefilm don't do RoI, netflix have already said they are
[11:09] <dwatkins> silly lovefilm
[11:10] <dwatkins> I like the idea of being able to watch online by paying a subscription
[11:10] <dwatkins> not that they have the best films, but it's a good start
[11:10] <zleap> why don't lovefilm do Roi
[11:10] <jutnux> Spotify for Films would be amazing
[11:11] <zleap> esp as there is a linux client in development ( i think)
[11:11] <dwatkins> I thought it was just a flash application
[11:11] <jutnux> Nope.
[11:11] <jutnux> That's Grooveshark dwatkins
[11:11]  * dwatkins notes the existence of screenclick in Ireland
[11:11] <jutnux> 10 minutes \o/
[11:11] <dwatkins> jutnux: I thought I'd played films off the lovefilm website via my browser before with no plugin
[11:11] <dwatkins> well, no non-standard plugin
[11:12] <jutnux> Oh right, thoguht you meant spotify.
[11:12] <jutnux> Sorry.
[11:12] <dwatkins> ahh
[11:12]  * daubers needs to remember how to set the answerphone message thing at work again
[11:12] <daubers> stupid BT pbx thing
[11:12] <dwatkins> BT make a lot of stupid hardware ;)
[11:12] <bigcalm> PBX rock!
[11:12] <dwatkins> my home hub regularly throws me offline
[11:13] <bigcalm> No, BT resell a lot of hardware made by other companies. BT are the MS of this world
[11:13] <dwatkins> true, they make it available then
[11:13] <dwatkins> I should put my D-Link in its place, I suspect that'll work much better
[11:13] <paln> yo
[11:14] <dwatkins> oioi
[11:14] <paln> what's this about routers?
[11:14] <dwatkins> My BT home hub 2 disconnects me a couple times a day
[11:14] <paln> dwatkins: leave me alone I don't know you :P
[11:14] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:14] <paln> jutnux I know from yesterday
[11:15] <dwatkins> I didn't touch you ;)
[11:15] <paln> bigcalm: lol
[11:15] <daubers> Really want to replace the BT thing with an asterisk box
[11:15] <paln> dwatkins: isn't that kind of impossible over the Internet anyway?
[11:15] <dwatkins> paln: indeed
[11:15] <daubers> but the cost of desk phones for voip things is a bit steep at the moment
[11:15] <paln> daubers: asterisk box?
[11:15] <daubers> !info asterisk
[11:15] <daubers> :(
[11:16] <daubers> :)
[11:16] <paln> daubers: lol, almost fail
[11:16]  * dwatkins wanders off to find a sandwich
[11:16] <daubers> Why is that still on natty?
[11:16] <daubers> ping AlanBell
[11:16] <paln> !seen AlanBell
[11:17] <paln> WHAT?!?!
[11:17] <paln> poo...
[11:17] <dwatkins> excellent, firefox supports google queries in the address bar now
[11:17] <daubers> paln: He'll respond when he has a moment
[11:17] <paln> dwatkins: nice. now all the major rower are cheating the omnibox
[11:17] <paln> *browsers
[11:18] <dwatkins> paln: cheating the whatnow?
[11:18] <paln> the Omnibox from Google Chrone, where URLs and searches are in one field
[11:18]  * daubers ponders upgrading his laptop to precise
[11:18] <dwatkins> yes, what is cheating about this?
[11:18] <jutnux> Firefox isn't
[11:18] <brobostigon> chrome/chromium*
[11:19] <daubers> Will have the christmas hols to fix it if it borks if I do it now
[11:19] <paln> brobostigon: meh, I'd only use chromium if I wanted a super-fast erosion of chrome
[11:19] <paln> it doesn't hog as much ram
[11:19] <jutnux> daubers: Doubt it'll bork
[11:19] <paln> *version
[11:19] <brobostigon> paln: i corrected youre spelling.
[11:19] <bigcalm> brobostigon: you're
[11:19] <paln> my iPhones autocorrect is beginning to bug me
[11:20] <dwatkins> you can turn it off
[11:20] <daubers> jutnux: No, but better safe then screaming in panic because it did :)
[11:20] <bigcalm> brobostigon: your
[11:20] <bigcalm> (Correcting myself, correcting you)
[11:20] <jutnux> daubers: Perhaps :-)
[11:20] <jutnux> Science In Action \o/
[11:20] <brobostigon> bigcalm: good point,
[11:20] <paln> brobostigon: no you didn't
[11:20]  * daubers presses "Upgrade" and waits
[11:20] <paln> even though I did misspell it as "Chrone", not Chrome
[11:21]  * bigcalm sends out emails to disappoint customers. Holiday starts in 1h 39min!
[11:21] <paln> wait, how do you upgrade to Precise Pangolin?
[11:21] <jutnux> Brb, need to restart :-D
[11:22] <jutnux> paln: update-manager -d
[11:22] <paln> ok
[11:22] <brobostigon> do-release-upgrade also works.
[11:22] <paln> cos in the update manager settings I only find it notifies me of either all releases or onlyLTS ones
[11:25] <bigcalm> 12.04 is still in alpha, it won't show itself to you unless you dig
[11:25] <paln> ok then
[11:26] <daubers> !12.04
[11:26] <daubers> !alpha
[11:27] <daubers> paln: Running 12.04 may present breakage as, like Grolsch, it's not ready yet
[11:27] <paln> regarding damn small Linux, is there any way to install new packages?
[11:27] <paln> I can't seem to find any documentation on the distro :/
[11:28] <bigcalm> Not sure how much help you'll get for it in an Ubuntu channel
[11:28] <marcushaslam> yea will be good i think
[11:28] <paln> daubers: and I'm not one for testing, so I'm  still on 11.10
[11:28] <paln> bigcalm: lol obviously
[11:28] <paln> just a query
[11:29] <daubers> jabber \o/
[11:29] <MattJ> jABBER \O/
[11:29] <MattJ> !
[11:29] <paln> daubers: what's jabber even like?
[11:29] <MattJ> I really need to disable my caps lock key
[11:29] <daubers> heh :)
[11:30] <MartijnVdS> paln: like Google Talk, mostly
[11:30] <paln> MattJ: you just did
[11:30] <MattJ> paln, I mean disable it entirely... so pressing it does nothing :)
[11:30] <daubers> MattJ: I'm rebuilding the doorbell! Slapping it on MQTT this time, and building an MQTT to XMPP gateway :)
[11:30] <dwatkins> Isn't DSL a Debian?
[11:30] <MattJ> daubers, woohoo!
[11:30] <paln> MattJ: why would you do that?
[11:30] <MattJ> daubers, what's the gateway written in? :)
[11:31] <MattJ> paln, because I only ever press caps lock by mistake
[11:31] <daubers> MattJ: (python....)
[11:31] <paln> dwatkins: based on knoppix gentoo ad Debian
[11:31] <daubers> Waiting for my xbee's to turn up for it
[11:31] <jutnux> Upgraded, yaya
[11:31] <MattJ> daubers, XEP-0114 though?
[11:31] <dwatkins> paln: right, so if it's Debian-based, you should be able to use apt-get
[11:31] <daubers> MattJ: Not seen that one
[11:31] <MattJ> daubers, or it's connecting to the server as a client?
[11:31] <paln> but if you decide to install normally rather than frugally, it installs "like a Debian distribution would"
[11:31] <daubers> MattJ: It's connecting as a client to both servers
[11:32] <MattJ> Gotcha
[11:32] <andylockran> LD
[11:32] <daubers> MattJ: Think I'm still using prosody as the xmpp server.... not poked it in ages
[11:33] <MattJ> :)
[11:34] <paln> jutnux: what's 12.04 like atm?
[11:35] <jutnux> paln: Ok for me.
[11:35] <paln> jutnux: any real change in stability ?
[11:36] <jutnux> paln: Not really, seems a bit faster imo.
[11:36] <paln> jutnux: really? might try it out then :D
[11:37] <jutnux> It is now the desktop's turn to be upgraded.
[11:37] <paln> meaning...?
[11:37] <paln> oh right different pc haha
[11:40] <jutnux> This week in tech, 2 hours long \o/
[11:42] <paln> so what led you guys to Linux?
[11:43] <BigRedS> I was asked to download 1/6th of a set of Redhat CDs off Kazaa by a guy I was at school with
[11:43] <paln> omg Kazaa
[11:43] <paln> memories...
[11:44] <BigRedS> haha, yeah
[11:44] <popey> hehe
[11:44] <popey> I was told about it in ~1994 by a beardy guy at college
[11:44] <popey> i said it will never take off
[11:44] <BigRedS> We got the CDs together at somebody's house, I spent about four days trying to get it to work and gave up. I tried Mandrake a few months later and that seemed to work
[11:44] <popey> it was slackware iirc
[11:44] <paln> I got into it when my sister broke the old computer I have by trying to install Wondows XP on t hen it only has 128mb of ram
[11:45] <shauno> I picked up linux because everyone I knew got windows 95 but my machine wouldn't run it.  so I went and found something else to play with
[11:45] <MattJ> I couldn't afford Windows XP (and didn't consider it worth paying for)
[11:45] <paln> so when he reverted back to WinMe, I had to reinstall the drivers for the scanner
[11:45] <MattJ> Partly I couldn't afford it because it was above the specs of my computer
[11:45] <dwatkins> I installed Linux because I wanted to learn about unix-like kernels back in 1994
[11:45] <paln> that was my first real experience with tech
[11:45] <shauno> heh, linux will never take off?  It's been the year of the linux desktop for the last 8 years running!
[11:45] <BigRedS> I had no idea what a unix-like kernel was for the first few years of Linux use
[11:46] <MattJ> shauno, the year of the Linux desktop was 2008, and I'm sticking to that :)
[11:46] <paln> so I got interested and after pondering around heard about Linux and downloaded Ubuntu 10.04
[11:46] <paln> MattJ: too right
[11:46] <paln> so many people are using it yet they've never heard of it
[11:47] <paln> it just about the publicity
[11:47] <shauno> I got slackware 3.3 from my electronics teacher.  and then had to borrow a second floppy drive from him because my machine didn't have enough ram for the installer's ramdisk :(
[11:47] <paln> regarding whether anybody realises they're using it
[11:47] <paln> shauno: lol
[11:48] <jutnux> I installed Linux for a play around in late 2009
[11:48] <bigcalm> I attended an 'Introduction to Unix' course in '95. We used Red Hat 5 and learnt about sed and awk
[11:48] <MattJ> You're making me all feel old
[11:48] <paln> jutnux: what distro?
[11:48] <MattJ> bigcalm, ah, thank you :)
[11:48] <jutnux> Ubuntu, obviously.
[11:49] <paln> MattJ: that's cos me and jutnux are teens
[11:49] <paln> jutnux: just checking :/ jheeze
[11:49] <MattJ> Speaking of which, who's for FOSDEM?
[11:49] <jutnux> Sorry :(
[11:49] <shauno> did anyone else end up on djgpp?
[11:49] <bigcalm> It's great that it appeals to all ages
[11:49] <jutnux> bigcalm: We're just nerds
[11:49] <paln> MattJ: what?
[11:50] <MattJ> http://fosdem.org/
[11:50]  * BigRedS intends to have work send him
[11:50] <AlanBell> hi daubers
[11:51] <jutnux> Where do you work BigRedS?
[11:51] <paln> FOSDEM looks interesting
[11:51] <BigRedS> in a datacenter in cambridgeshire
[11:52] <jutnux> bELGIUM :-(
[11:52] <paln> so does anyone know when the next kind of meeting is ?
[11:52] <BigRedS> It's but a train ride away from London :)
[11:52] <paln> I hear they have them every so often
[11:52] <paln> they bein you guys
[11:52] <paln> and other Ubuntu Linux freaks
[11:52] <BigRedS> there's an approximately-monthly happy hour
[11:53] <BigRedS> which is in a pub, it moves around the country
[11:53] <BigRedS> I can't remember where January's is
[11:53] <paln> BigRedS: yes I heard about that
[11:53] <paln> I am from London
[11:53] <jutnux> I am from Norwich.
[11:54] <shauno> I like the way you describe that.  I picture ubuntu itself as being on a never-ending drunken stumble that way
[11:54] <paln> jutnux: :o no chance meeting one another then
[11:54] <jutnux> In 3 years when I have a car :-)
[11:54] <shauno> "ubuntu happy hour .. last seen heading past the watford gap.  if found, please return to .."
[11:54] <BigRedS> paln: ah, they're in London more often than not generally
[11:54] <paln> what's the legal age in this country? 16 or 18 for driving?
[11:55] <BigRedS> shauno: haha!
[11:55] <jutnux> 17
[11:55] <BigRedS> paln: 17 IIRC
[11:55] <paln> BigRedS: lucky me!!!
[11:55] <paln> IIRC?
[11:55] <BigRedS> If I Remember Correctly
[11:55] <paln> oh ok
[11:56] <paln> then 3 or 4 years till I get a car
[11:56] <dwatkins> yeah, 17 to get a provisional license
[11:56] <paln> ok cool
[11:56] <dwatkins> also, Norwich is pretty close to London as far as I'm concerned, I live in Edinburgh ;)
[11:56] <shauno> I'm not a huge fna of cars for things like that.  I'd rather national stagecoach so I can nap
[11:56] <paln> dwatkins: argh, it's a Scotman!
[11:57] <dwatkins> 115 miles - I could do that without stopping in a couple hours
[11:57] <paln> (no offence)
[11:57] <BigRedS> Norwich is pretty close to Edinburgh as far as I'm concerned - I grew up in London :)
[11:57] <bigcalm> Hah
[11:57] <dwatkins> paln: no, I grew up near Reading, Berkshire actually :-p
[11:57] <paln> oh...
[11:57] <jutnux> I think you should all come to Norwich
[11:57] <jutnux> ;-_
[11:57] <BigRedS> I still believe that anything outside of the M25 is entirely theoretical, despite now living there
[11:57] <paln> BigRedS: same
[11:57] <dwatkins> jutnux: what's there?
[11:57] <dwatkins> BigRedS is therefore entirely theoretical
[11:58] <paln> BigRedS: jahahahahahaha
[11:58] <shauno> well, gravity is theoretical ..
[11:58] <feisar_> hi, if I want firewall rules to be persistent after a reboot do I need to get the UFW service to start on boot?
[11:58] <BigRedS> Oh. I'd missed that.
[11:58] <BigRedS> :(
[11:58] <paln> shauno: true :/
[11:58] <BigRedS> feisar_: yeah
[11:59] <BigRedS> you'll boot with a 'standard' set of iptables rules, and then UFW will apply its own when it starts up and reads its config
[11:59] <paln> sho does anyone know of any kind of decent computer classes
[11:59] <paln> like programming and shit
[11:59] <dwatkins> paln: have a look at Stanford's video lectures
[11:59] <paln> not "here's how you use MS Access!"
[11:59] <dwatkins> but please watch your language on this channel
[11:59] <feisar_> BigRedS: thanks, so how, using upstart do I set it to start on boot?
[11:59] <BigRedS> feisar_: Ah, that I'm not so sure on! :) I'll have a look, hang on
[11:59] <paln> dwatkins: ok... personally I don't consider that swearing
[12:00] <paln> and I never swear tbh
[12:00] <dwatkins> fair enough, paln, just letting you know it's a family show :)
[12:00] <paln> dwatkins: haha ;)
[12:00] <dwatkins> ...and logged publically
[12:00] <feisar_> BigRedS: thanks, I have been looking but can't seem to work it out
[12:00] <paln> dwatkins: oh yea, I forget that
[12:01] <paln> well I'll betraying out Damn Small later, but bye for now
[12:01] <dwatkins> enjoy :)
[12:01] <paln> * be trying
[12:01] <shauno> stanford have a bunch more of those starting in the new year.  CS 101, crypto, it's looking good
[12:01] <paln> dwatkins: I'll try whilst trying :D
[12:02] <paln> shauno: cool, will have to check them out
[12:02] <dwatkins> shauno: I signed up for that, looks very interesting
[12:02]  * paln is happy now
[12:02]  * paln is leaving
[12:02]  * paln says bye again
[12:02] <paln> bye
[12:02] <shauno> my only beef with them, is I wish they'd put them all under one domain so I could find them!
[12:02] <zleap> paln, for programming classes I would suggest a good book and a commuity such as this,  if you grab a resource that others also use, then you can ask for help and refer to a specifc page or website
[12:02] <jutnux> bye
[12:02] <jutnux> Books suck
[12:02] <jutnux> Watch youtube videos
[12:02] <zleap> well book / resource
[12:02] <BigRedS> feisar_: apparently, update-rc.d still works
[12:03] <paln> I like wibit.net ATM
[12:03] <BigRedS> so update-rc.d ufw defaults
[12:03] <BigRedS> should do what you want, assuming the service is known to upstart as 'ufw'
[12:03] <zleap> books you can make notes in
[12:03] <shauno> books are fantastic, if you use them right.  find an itch to scratch, and work from there.  if you just start at the front of a book, you'll be bored senseless before they've got past hello world
[12:03] <BigRedS> this is the annoying thing about Ubuntu changing the bootup method every fortnight - it's hard to find docs on the particular version you're using :(
[12:04] <shauno> I thought ufw handled that itself when you do ufw enable?
[12:04] <shauno> or was it always in my startup, just de-flagged in /etc/default somewhere
[12:04] <BigRedS> shauno: oh. Perhaps. I just checked for the current version of update-rc.d and it seemed to be update-rc.d
[12:05]  * BigRedS remembers about /etc/default
[12:05]  * BigRedS gets more coffee
[12:05] <BigRedS> feisar_: yeah, check for a file /etc/default/ufw and see if its' disabled in there
[12:05] <BigRedS> I know Shorewall's disabled by default - it's a sensible thing to do with a firewall
[12:05] <shauno> I know if I do 'ufw disable', that persists across reboots.  so it's toggling something, somewhere
[12:07] <dwatkins> heh, lovefilm asks me to install silverlight, but allows me to use flash anyway
[12:07] <shauno> it just tells me that irish creditcards don't count :(
[12:08] <directhex> dwatkins: lovefilm goes SL-only in january iirc
[12:08] <jutnux> http://imgur.com/9Tz8K
[12:08] <dwatkins> directhex: oh bah, I guess I'll be cancelling my subscription then
[12:09] <jutnux> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/godaddy-faces-december-29-boycott-over-sopa-support.ars
[12:10] <directhex> "Flash software will continue to run alongside Silverlight until the first week of January 2012, so that everyone has time to make the switch"
[12:10] <directhex> http://blog.lovefilm.com/uncategorized/why-were-switching-from-flash-to-silverlight.html
[12:10] <jutnux> Silverlight
[12:10] <jutnux> Oh my God
[12:10] <jutnux> That's like stepping back 8 years
[12:11] <jutnux> As I believe was said in the UUPC
[12:11] <feisar_> BigRedS: OK, I just rebooted (it's a new server) and the rules have held, despite 'service --status-all' showing a '?' against ufw
[12:12] <feisar_> so it looks like 'ufw enable' is all that's needed
[12:13] <directhex> it's weird, considering microsoft have more or less killed SL
[12:13] <jutnux> SL is so bad
[12:13] <BigRedS> feisar_: ah, cool
[12:14] <feisar_> BigRedS: thanks
[12:14] <shauno> SL's really not that terrible.  it's just 10 years too late for content to depend on proprietary plugins
[12:15] <shauno> I don't break out in hives just because it's msft; but I do react about the same as if a page had just told me to install realplayer
[12:17] <BigRedS> feisar_: no worries, I think it was you and shauno, I just confused things :)
[12:17] <shauno> if they'd delivered SL back when the bbc popped up a box with 6 different options when you tried to view a video, I'd have loved it
[12:17] <BigRedS> Oh man, I forgot about realplayer
[12:28] <bigcalm> This last bit of the working day is going very slowly
[12:29] <shauno> last bit?  I've got 6 hours left :(
[12:30] <jutnux> Haha.
[12:30] <jutnux> I have to go round my grandma's in 4 hours, voluntarily :-(
[12:30] <bigcalm> Half day \o/
[12:30] <bigcalm> 30mins to go
[12:30] <bigcalm> I'm only really in my office incase the phone rings
[12:30] <awilkins> Yeah, the work week is ending.. then the real work begins
[12:30] <bigcalm> Too right :S
[12:30]  * awilkins is a Grinch and a Scrooge
[12:30] <bigcalm> I need to wrap Hayley's presents
[12:31] <awilkins> The week off would be quite nice if it wasn't for Christmas
[12:31] <bigcalm> And a bah humbug to you too :)
[12:31] <jutnux> Ubuntu is using less ram than my Arch installation. This is gewd.
[12:34] <shauno> I don't do the week off bit.  I'm working the next 4 days.  leave christmas to the folks with families
[12:36] <jutnux> shauno: :-(
[12:36] <shauno> nah.  someone needs to rack up all the overtime :D
[12:37] <zleap> back later guys
[12:37] <jutnux> Adios!!
[12:38] <Seeker`> For the first time in ~15 years (apparently) the company isn't giving us a half day on the lat working day before christmas
[12:38] <dwatkins> bah
[12:39] <chrisjrob> Seeker`: same here
[12:39] <chrisjrob> but then I guess it makes sense
[12:41] <awilkins> It makes sense to a certain kind of mentality
[12:41] <awilkins> I would imagine the amount of productive work that it's possible to do is limited
[12:41] <dwatkins> People are doing work today?
[12:42] <chrisjrob> lol
[12:42] <shauno> don't I look busy?  all this typing!
[12:42] <chrisjrob> irc'ing == work
[12:42] <dwatkins> I'm kidding, I'm just as busy today as I've been the rest of the week.
[12:42] <awilkins> If only that meant you were working ...
[12:43] <shauno> I do consider irc working, in a roundabout way
[12:44] <awilkins> Oh definitely. IRC is useful to me in a work capacity
[12:45] <awilkins> A shame our policies think of anything other than our flaky Office Communications Server as the work of Stan
[12:46] <shauno> I have a very reactionary job.  unless either something breaks, or they need a native english-speaker to write documentation, my main concern becomes staying awake in case something breaks
[12:46] <awilkins> I'm disproportionately excited by the trailer for The Hobbit.
[12:47]  * jutnux watches the trailer
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> shauno: get a buzzer hooked to nagios, that way you can sleep until things break :)
[12:49] <shauno> we used to have a rather large beeper
[12:49] <shauno> but now we've been moved into the same cubefarm as a few other teams, so we're not allowed to make loud noises :(
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> shauno: that doesn't stop people around here
[12:50] <MartijnVdS> One big "open office", more shouting than ever
[12:51] <shauno> surprisingly little shouting here.  I tend to throw toys at people to get their attention
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Steel firetruck toys
[12:51] <shauno> mostly because I struggle pronouncing a lot of these names
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Aren't most people called "OI YOU" anyway?
[12:52] <awilkins> Rig a USB missile launcher to pepper you with nerfules when an alarm goes off?
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> or something that sends an electric shock through your toes
[12:53] <bigcalm> 7 mins to go - Excuse me while I rip the phone out of the wall
[12:54] <christel> HO HO HO
[12:54]  * bigcalm puts a fiver in christel's hat
[12:54] <christel> why thank you
[12:54] <jutnux> Ok guys, just installed 12.04 on my desktop and I get "Ubuntu is running in low graphics mode"
[12:54] <jutnux> I boot to the recovery prompt and I can't select any options
[12:54] <shauno> actually, nerf could work.  we still have a box that trips a dry contact, after a disasterous "integration" attempt
[14:25] <feisar_> hi all, does a ufw on lucid firewall ipv6 too?
[14:25] <brobostigon> yes, but you need to tell it to do it, the ufw instructions on the wiki say how,
[14:26] <feisar_> brobostigon: thanks, i'll check the wiki
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> also, /usr/share/doc/ufw/ should have some
[14:27] <brobostigon> feisar_: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UFW
[14:31] <zleap> hi
[14:32] <jutnux> 12.04 mucked up my partition table and everything :-P
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: how?
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> it didn't for me..
[14:32] <jutnux> I have no idea.
[14:32] <jutnux> Just going to put ubuntu 11.10 back on
[14:32] <jutnux> Have 12.04 on my laptop  though
[14:40] <paln> hey again
[14:46] <shauno> I'm on lucid, and I don't need to specify v6 for most rules?
[14:46] <MartijnVdS> shauno: because ufw-v6 is off by default?
[14:47] <paln> you guys are still discussing ufw?
[14:47] <MartijnVdS> not much was discussed in the last few hours :)
[14:47] <shauno> hm, I couldn't tell you what default was anymore.  it's been some years
[14:49] <paln> so anyways, what else is going on around here?
[14:54] <shauno> it seems most are enjoying the real world today
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> Real what?
[14:54] <brobostigon> it is raining hard here. :9
[14:54] <brobostigon> :(
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> it's raining a little here :(
[14:54] <paln> Its raining slightly here
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> But my 1cm x 3mm neodymium magnets arrived :)
[14:54] <shauno> I'm on the atlantic coast of Ireland.   It's been raining for years ..
[14:54] <MartijnVdS> shauno: 8-)
[14:54] <paln> well, it was puring down earlier
[14:55] <paln> MartijnVDS: I want some Zen Magnets
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> shauno: luck of the irish?
[14:55] <paln> cute little fellas they are
[14:55] <paln> they're neodymium aswell
[14:55] <paln> but are spherical
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> ah, mine are discs
[14:55] <MartijnVdS> N42
[14:56] <shauno> the spherical ones look interesting for making buckyballs
[14:56] <paln> cool
[14:56] <paln> you should check these guys out http://www.zenmagnets.com/
[14:56] <MartijnVdS> paln: I just order them from ebay for €5 for 20 :)
[14:56] <paln> shauno: they come in different brand names, one of them actually being BuckyBalls
[14:57] <paln> you've also got NeoCube and NanoDots
[14:57] <MartijnVdS> or cheap Chinese ebay sellers ;)
[14:57] <paln> haha
[14:58] <paln> i ordered a Rubik's Cube from China
[14:58] <paln> 4 quid, + 21 dollars p+p
[14:58] <paln> so £14
[14:58] <shauno> my love for cheap chinese vendors may be all that's still keeping an post in business
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> €5 + free shipping on 20 magnets :)
[14:58] <paln> i only got it 'cause i speedcube, and it's a decent one
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> Oh magnets + sugru = win btw
[14:58] <paln> the China Post tracking service is absolute rubbish though
[14:58] <paln> sugru?
[14:58] <MartijnVdS> sugru.com
[14:59] <paln> ah
[14:59]  * brobostigon goes to find some beer.
[14:59]  * paln wants something to discuss
[14:59] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Hmm.. you make a good point :)
[14:59] <paln> I need to actually enter the Linux scene
[14:59] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
[14:59] <paln> I'm beginning to think I'm more of a designer than a coder
[15:00] <paln> but i've always wanted to code
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> paln: What's stopping you?
[15:00] <paln> learning C atm
[15:00]  * brobostigon returns with franziskaner :)
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> Try starting with Python or Perl, then go to C later when you've mastered the basic concepts :)
[15:00] <paln> MartijnVdS: not much, other than secondary school :D
[15:00] <shauno> (please note that 'or perl' is probably an in-joke)
[15:00] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Perl is not bad.
[15:00] <paln> I've mastered stuff like pointers and array-like strings
[15:01] <MartijnVdS> shauno: ♥ Perl
[15:01] <paln> meh, i guess i'll start with Python
[15:01] <paln> but i'm learning C atm so i'll finish that online course first ;)
[15:02] <BigRedS> I learnt Perl and now I'm struggling to come up with a reason to learn C
[15:03] <paln> BigRedS: really?
[15:04] <paln> well, i'll make my own way
[15:04] <BigRedS> I've not yet had anything to write that's particularly better suited to C than Perl
[15:04] <BigRedS> that's no reason to not learn C
[15:04] <BigRedS> it's just a good reason to learn Perl :)
[15:04] <shauno> don't get hung up on languages so much. learn to program.  that's the important bit
[15:05] <shauno> carpenters don't learn to hammer.  the tool is just a detail
[15:05] <BigRedS> yeah, it's worth noting, too, that I'm not a programmer
[15:06] <swat_> first bug on pangolin raised :D
[15:06]  * paln is hungry, so is going to eat pasta!
[15:08] <shauno> sounds like a plan
[15:25] <acperkins> I ended up learning bits of C because Perl wasn't on any of the company's Windows PCs I looked after.
[15:30]  * paln has finished eating
[15:30] <paln> that was yum
[15:31] <paln> anyways, what's this about Perl not being on windows?
[15:31] <paln> I've compiled Perl scripts in Windows a few times
[15:31] <paln> or is Perl a program is well as a language?
[15:31] <paln> !seen
[15:32] <paln> why does this channel's bot not have a seen command?
[15:32] <brobostigon> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006ml0g/broadcasts/upcoming
[15:32] <zleap> perl for windows http://www.perl.org/get.html#win32
[15:32] <zleap> !seen paln
[15:32] <zleap> !lastseen paln
[15:32] <zleap> paln, not sure
[15:32] <paln> zleap: so Perl IS a program!
[15:33] <zleap> yes
[15:33] <paln> i didn't know that
[15:33] <paln> i dont' actually know that much about programming
[15:33] <zleap> hence you get !/bin/perl at the start of scripts
[15:33] <zleap> or something like that
[15:33] <paln> the first "language" i learnt was HTML
[15:33] <paln> then a teeny bit of JavaScript
[15:34] <zleap> well its a start
[15:34] <paln> then i attempted XML
[15:34] <paln> but being 7, i sisnt really understand it
[15:34] <paln> *didnt
[15:34] <zleap> i find having a focus is a good way to learn something
[15:35] <paln> yeah...you have to have a decent interest in the subject
[15:35] <zleap> it would be good to get as many young people like you together to learn languges online
[15:36] <paln> e.g. i'm excellent at biology but i hate it
[15:36] <paln> ironically
[15:36] <paln> lol, i appreciate that
[15:36] <paln> ;)
[15:36] <zleap> I have a meeting (hopefully ) with one of the people at my local youth centre regarding me helping to set up a programming group,  talking to you here, is like giving me more of an idea that there IS a need out there
[15:36] <zleap> and that teachers simply can't hack doing it
[15:36] <paln> well, there's always room for improvement
[15:37] <paln> but you have to start in order to improve
[15:37] <paln> true -- teachers never do seem to understand the kids
[15:37] <paln> it's more on a need-to-know basis
[15:37] <acperkins> I've never tried compiling Perl programs, or Python though I've heard it can be done with reasonable success
[15:37] <zleap> they are too focussed on exams, etc
[15:37] <paln> "oh, this kid needs help, let's see what i need to do" kind of thing
[15:38] <zleap> i think perl is a script
[15:38] <zleap> paln  yes exactly
[15:38] <paln> zleap: yeah, exams are a lot of stress
[15:38] <paln> which is why I do /BTEC/ IT
[15:38] <paln> gives me more time to review my work
[15:38] <acperkins> I wish there had been programming groups when I was still in school, or real Comp Sci courses instead of "IT"
[15:38] <paln> rather than worry about getting everything perfect on one occassion
[15:39] <zleap> and as i said before,  are no how it is in the real world,  in the real world even ubuntu coding, you get help from others for your code
[15:39] <paln> they mark your coursework, you see
[15:39] <paln> so it's more like reality, in a vague sense
[15:39] <paln> i hate the fact it isnt what i imagined it to be
[15:39] <paln> as a result, ive got people who have no idea what an if statement is in my class
[15:40] <paln> and why had to use them in MS Excel on the first day
[15:40] <zleap> i think something like gold, platenum ingots would suit you,   with those you need to do X hours contribution to an OSS project
[15:40] <paln> maybe, but i kinda get hung up on my schoolwork
[15:40] <zleap> schools could offer ingots at a vastly reduced cost compared to normal exams
[15:40] <paln> it would be better if schools allowed students to change their subjects at any time througout the academic year , imho
[15:41] <paln> but for a valid reason, obviously
[15:41] <paln> what are ingots, btw?
[15:41] <paln> i've heard the term before...somewhere :/
[15:41] <zleap> http://www.theingots.org/
[15:41] <MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingot
[15:42] <MooDoo> ooops lol
[15:42] <zleap> np
[15:42] <AlanBell> Ian Lynch's qualification thingie
[15:42] <paln> MooDoo: haha a light piece of metal
[15:43] <MooDoo> that'll teach me for coming in halfway through a conversation :D
[15:43] <paln> AlanBell: will look into it sometime
[15:43] <paln> MooDoo: too true
[15:44] <paln> Computer Science needs to be today's IT
[15:44] <zleap> this country is too far behind and has too many people saying MS is everything,   and everything else is insignificant
[15:44] <paln> IT needs to be renamed
[15:44] <zleap> paln, that is what the people behind raspberry PI are saying, it also needs to come from young people
[15:45] <acperkins> I think the government are trying to push Comp Sci into schools now at last
[15:45] <zleap> well you need two courses one IT being office stuff the other being COmpter science which is programming etc
[15:45] <paln> zleap: rightly so, yet we don't really have anything in our power to do that
[15:45] <paln> zleap: i thought they did that
[15:45] <zleap> paln, what about youth parliament
[15:45] <shauno> IT really needs to be split in half.  basic computer literacy and CS are two entirely different subjects now
[15:45] <paln> acperkins: since when?
[15:45] <zleap> also they are meant to listen to young people more
[15:45] <paln> zleap: they are meant to, yet they dont
[15:46] <paln> the probability of this situation being beneficial is far too low atm
[15:46] <acperkins> saw it in the news recently, I will dig up a link
[15:46] <paln> shauno, it already is, but they spparently don't offer Comp Sci as a GCSE/BTEC subject in secondary schools atm
[15:46] <paln> acperkins: thanks a lot if you can ;)
[15:47] <shauno> well that's what I mean .. there's no distinction at gcse level
[15:47] <zleap> i agree, i tried to promote a group for young people a few years ago,  run by young people,  however thje youth worker was more concerered if young people will understand my flyer and what was on it
[15:47] <paln> yes, just A** to F--
[15:47] <zleap> try to reach out to techie people via non techies is impossible
[15:48] <paln> zleap: that's the main issue; some kids are really informed opn the tech world, whereas most atm don't have a clue
[15:48] <acperkins> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/dec/06/michael-gove-computer-science
[15:48] <zleap> its the few we need to bring together
[15:48] <paln> ...they just know how to use the Internet and (hopefully) how to stay safe on it
[15:48] <paln> zleap: precisely, and I think launchpad is doing a good job at that
[15:48] <paln> ...we just need more people
[15:49] <zleap> i will see what i can do in the new year
[15:49] <paln> social netowkring is already a major part of daily lifestyle, it just needs to rack in those talented few
[15:49] <paln> zleap: why should all pitch in
[15:49] <AlanBell> rewired state and young rewired state is great for that
[15:49] <zleap> it does not help when the national grid for learing (or the south west one) block freenode
[15:49] <AlanBell> they do really fun hack days
[15:49] <paln> next week, my schedule's booked with homework
[15:49] <paln> AlanBell: "rewired"?
[15:49] <AlanBell> http://youngrewiredstate.org/
[15:50] <paln> zleap: do they?
[15:50] <zleap> AlanBell, yeah but we need to promote these things and like i said reaching out to techies via non techies is hard,  if we can bypass the non techies life would be much easier
[15:50] <paln> oh right, NGfL
[15:50] <paln> they always cause issues
[15:50] <paln> AND they managed to block the proxy side of Google Translate
[15:50] <AlanBell> look carefully and you might spot asenceur and issyl0 int the video
[15:50] <zleap> paln, they seem to at ourlocal library (its chat)
[15:50] <paln> so proxy's are a total no-go now :/
[15:50] <zleap> AlanBell, i know them from DFEY
[15:50] <AlanBell> DFEY is also great
[15:51] <zleap> it funny as they block chat via free node but not the chat server the dclug use
[15:51] <paln> zleap, Google + should start to do a good job with circles
[15:51] <paln> the people you know are interested can be notified immediately, and then we can cause a chain reasction
[15:51] <paln> *reaction
[15:51] <zleap> AlanBell, yeah,  this is what I was trying to promote a while back,  and failed as I had to try to explain to a youth worker about it
[15:52] <zleap> they are paranoid about online groups
[15:53] <paln> zleap: that's because they deal with paranoid people most of the time
[15:53] <zleap> yeah
[15:53] <paln> (no offence to them)
[15:53] <paln> but google+ needs to lower their age limit 1st
[15:53] <paln> it still age>=18
[15:53] <zleap> i know if I could put a good flyer in a school I would probably find one or two young people like you
[15:53] <zleap> 18
[15:53] <shauno> I think that's a simple case of them simply not understanding the medium
[15:54] <zleap> its usallyu down to governments
[15:54] <zleap> i know facebook is 13
[15:54] <paln> hmph, pesky legal
[15:54] <paln> yep, which is why everyone has it
[15:54] <shauno> if all you know of online groups, is your never-ending struggle to stop friends posting pictures of you drunk, then you're going to be very wary of any productive value
[15:54] <paln> but i already have a google account and dont want to make another simply so i can fack my age
[15:54] <paln> *fake
[15:55] <paln> shano: im 14
[15:55] <paln> shauno, see above
[15:55] <shauno> I mean the people you say are paranoid of online groups
[15:55] <paln> so that's highly unlikely HAHA :D
[15:55] <paln> ah, right, that's another matter
[15:55]  * AlanBell signs up as a YRS mentor https://docs.google.com/a/rewiredstate.org/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dHBBb2psMk1oNXF3MXRlWjVsZG9uTVE6MA#gid=0
[15:57] <zleap> seaching through the google+ terms and conditions it says "2.3 You may not use the Services and may not accept the Terms if (a) you are not of legal age to form a binding contract with Google, or (b) you are a person barred from receiving the Services under the laws of the United States or other countries including the country in which you are resident or from which you use the Services"
[15:58] <zleap> not of legal age to form a binding contract with google,  that does not say anyone 13 and above can't use it
[15:58] <paln> yes, but here in the UK the legal age is actually 16 unless otherwise stated within the Terms of Use and EULA
[15:58] <paln> that is , afaik
[15:59] <zleap> hmm, so why can you signup to facebook at 13 here
[15:59] <zleap> sounds like it does not say in an explicit way and therefore is open to interpretation
[16:00] <paln> ...unless otherwise stated within the Terms of Use AND EULA
[16:00] <paln> the Google+ EULA is fine in this country
[16:00] <zleap> ok
[16:01] <paln> Terms of Use are universally responsible
[16:01] <shauno> I really have no idea why plus can't come down to 13 to meet COPPA.  this contract stuff smells like a red herring
[16:01] <zleap> i know people under 13 can't use IRC or freenode due to US law
[16:01] <paln> one document for every nation
[16:01] <paln> whereas the EULA can be specific to a certain area
[16:01] <paln> Google need to sort out the US legal
[16:02] <paln> so the age can be lowered universally
[16:02] <paln> zleap, really? yet another thing i didnt know
[16:02] <zleap> lol,  you can't sign up to google + due to your age but you can view pages
[16:02] <paln> does that only apply to the US though (IRC and Freenode)
[16:02] <paln> zleap: that's what proves the EULA is fine
[16:02] <zleap> not sure,  are they gonna check
[16:02] <paln> they being...?
[16:03] <zleap> freenode
[16:03] <paln> ah
[16:03] <zleap> or anyone,
[16:03] <paln> oh...
[16:03] <paln> 0
[16:03] <paln> woops
[16:03] <shauno> it's any service that provides a uniquely identifable identity (or collects uniquely identifiable data).  as long as the entity falls under US jurisdiction
[16:03] <paln> shauno: thanks
[16:03] <zleap> thanks
[16:04] <paln> cos my 10 year-old cousin uses IRC :D
[16:04] <zleap> i don't have a problem with that
[16:04] <shauno> it can go below 13 with parental consent, but the methods for proving it was a parent are fairly difficult to do at scale (besides the creditcard barrier, which introduces hurdles of it's own)
[16:05] <zleap> i am sure ops don't either,  they DO have a problem with people that are rude, or offensive ,  and I am sure the would rather spend time dealing with people like that than young people here following the rules on behaviour
[16:05] <zleap> the = they
[16:05] <paln> shauno: of course
[16:06] <paln> been there done that
[16:06] <paln> i've faked being my parents once or twice
[16:06] <paln> zleap: quite right -- at least, i would hope so
[16:06] <zleap> from what i have heard ops have a real hard time of it sometimes
[16:07] <shauno> I moderate on another network, where we try to make as little a deal of it as possible.  unless they're silly enough to tell us their age directly.
[16:08] <zleap> yeah sound a good policy keep people on your side doing that
[16:09] <shauno> well, there's no sane way to age-check on irc at all.  but if you find people saying "10/f/florida" in public channels .. I've no hard feelings if they can't reconnect.  probably for their own good.
[16:09] <zleap> thing is all this goes against the idea that the free software community are open to everyone
[16:10] <zleap> well asking asl on irc is not apreciated anyway
[16:10] <shauno> to some extent, it isn't, and I don't think it ever has been
[16:11] <shauno> it's a meritocracy .. you can travel as far as you like on your own worth.   if your worth is a negative value, you'll still find doors closing in front of you
[16:11] <zleap> why is it important how old you are,   we are having a fare more intellegent conversation here than other forms of net communication
[16:11] <zleap> far
[16:17] <paln> true
[16:18] <zleap> anyway i have so far created a mini flyer for ubuntu youth, and included one of those QR codes,  on it,
[16:18] <zleap> so hopefully i can give those out to people
[16:19] <paln> nice
[16:20] <zleap> http://www.zleap.net/portfolio.html
[16:21] <jutnux> Back
[16:21] <jutnux> I know you all missed me
[16:21] <zleap> wb
[16:22] <jutnux> zleap: How old are you?
[16:23] <zleap> 36
[16:23] <jutnux> Ah
[16:23] <jutnux> Did you found the Ubuntu Youth thing?
[16:23] <AlanBell> it is a good age to be :)
[16:23] <zleap> thanks
[16:24] <zleap> yeah, google search
[16:24] <zleap> basically so I could grab the graphics and promote it a little
[16:25] <jutnux> Guess I better join the channel :-P
[16:25] <zleap> that was quick
[16:26] <zleap>  /join #ubuntu-youth  I think
[16:26] <jutnux> Yeah I just restarted XChat.
[16:26] <zleap> ok
[16:28] <zleap> to add to problems, local library don't like flyers with links to chat rooms either,   i just wondered if young people are faced with the same barriers when promoting stuff
[16:29] <jutnux> I can't promote anything
[16:29] <jutnux> People don't trust kids
[16:31] <shauno> I know email is the last bastion of old farts, but have you considered a mailing lists like google groups offers?  You can have a fully transparent archive that way, which is probably more parent-friendly
[16:31] <jutnux> The problem is that most children use parents / their own laptops and the maintainer wont let them change naything.
[16:31] <jutnux> anything.
[16:31] <jutnux> If the libraries provided an ubuntu machine this might change.
[16:32] <zleap> the only library i have seen running linux is one in georgetown ontario, i only noticed due to seeing an gtk error message on the screen
[16:33] <zleap> well the mailing list for ubuntu-uk is archived publically I think
[16:33] <AlanBell> it is
[16:33] <shauno> it is, but I don't think mailman is the most user-friendly beast out there
[16:34] <shauno> if you're looking for people with techie parents, sure
[16:34] <AlanBell> shame the raspberry pi won't run Ubuntu
[16:35] <zleap> yeah
[16:35] <AlanBell> however it will run python and other stuff
[16:35] <zleap> but it is still running Linux
[16:35] <zleap> which is a good thing,
[16:35] <jutnux> Do you reckon someone will hack together a version of Ubuntu for the PI?
[16:36] <zleap> probbaly
[16:36] <zleap> gcc should be able to compile it for arm
[16:36] <zleap> i guess
[16:36] <AlanBell> nope
[16:36] <shauno> from what I gather, it's a fairly large amount of work
[16:36] <zleap> that has never stopped people, they do it for the challenge
[16:36] <jutnux> I'm going to get one just to use round other people's houses.
[16:37] <jutnux> And school, I wonder if that'll work :-P
[16:37] <zleap> :)
[16:37] <AlanBell> because there is stuff in Ubuntu that uses stuff in the ARMv7 instruction set and the pi has ARMv6
[16:37] <zleap> well hopefully schools will get them
[16:37] <jutnux> Nah
[16:37] <AlanBell> anyway, Ubuntu wouldn't run well on it, even if it did work a bit
[16:38] <AlanBell> it would also set the wrong expectations for the device
[16:38] <jutnux> Anyone know what OS it is running?
[16:38] <jutnux> Or is it just CLI?
[16:38] <shauno> I believe schools getting them is one of the larger end-goals.  the primary goal is to get enough traction that someone wants to underwrite it first
[16:38] <AlanBell> it will run fedora and debian and various other builds of operating systems
[16:38] <jutnux> Debian \o/
[16:38] <shauno> eg, right now it's a bbc micro without the bbc :/
[16:38] <AlanBell> the main storage is just an SD card so very swappable
[16:39] <jutnux> Sounds amazing
[16:39] <AlanBell> shauno: they really really want to fix that
[16:39] <zleap> and the expansion boards look cool too
[16:39] <jutnux> No bigger than a credit card too!
[16:40] <zleap> thing is even though its not running ubuntu,  we can still help them with stuff,  esp if its running debian,  as the packaging system is the same
[16:40] <AlanBell> yeah, it could run a lot of common stuff that is in Ubuntu
[16:41] <AlanBell> but don't expect to use it as a desktop computer
[16:41] <AlanBell> it is a tinkering toy
[16:41] <zleap> yeah
[16:41] <zleap> i just hope that it does well, and gets people interested in development
[16:41] <AlanBell> I think it was a great decision to ship it without a box to cover up the clever bits
[16:41] <zleap> or hacking in the old sense
[16:43] <zleap> if I get one will probbaly see if I can take it in to the after school club i work at, they have a tv in reception classs they use for the WII,  so maybe i can get the kids playing tux racing or something
[16:43] <jutnux> I'm going to get one
[16:43] <jutnux> and feel like a major badass.
[16:45] <jutnux> You know what's funny
[16:45] <zleap> if anything it will get through to people there is ANOTHER operating system out there other than windows and mac
[16:45] <jutnux> Wikipedia domains are on GoDaddy.
[16:45] <zleap> jutnux, that could be interesting
[16:45] <zleap> esp if they decide to move
[16:46] <jutnux> There's a reddit post with 700 comments
[16:47] <zleap> I just get the impression that most people are not aware of it,  and if they are they do not understand it enough,  those of us that do understnad it either do something or like us in the UK can't do much
[16:47] <jutnux> StackOverflow is moving away from GoDaddy.
[16:47] <zleap> a lot of people are
[16:47] <zleap> but this mass migration away needs to be on public forums so the rest of the population see it
[16:48] <mattt> what's the deal w/ godaddy?
[16:48] <shauno> I disagree with that to a large extent
[16:48] <zleap> they support SOPA
[16:48] <mattt> oh
[16:48] <zleap> hence people are moving their domains away from them
[16:48] <AlanBell> I just got a domain renewal thingie from godaddy for votegeek.org.uk
[16:48] <AlanBell> might try out the domain migration on that
[16:48] <zleap> sounds good, and tell em why
[16:48] <jutnux> NSFW: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/31/bob-parsons-godaddy-ceo-elephant-hunt_n_843121.html
[16:48] <zleap> maybe it will get the message to some suit at the top they are misguided
[16:49] <shauno> the huge problem is that far too many people who are actually calling the shots, don't "get" the internet at all.  making more noise online isn't all it's cracked up to be in this case
[16:49] <zleap> i found the anonomous thing on you tube basically saying they know everything about the people that support SOPA and will act,   I think 2012 could be a really interesting year
[16:51] <shauno> focussing on godaddy has the potential to pull one name off the support's list.  that really only affects godaddy, not SOPA
[16:52] <jutnux> GoDaddy will probably change their mindset.
[16:52] <zleap> its not just go daddy that users are pulling away from if another hosting company is supporting SOPA then related projects or groups will pull from them too
[16:53] <zleap> jutnux, yeah but at what cost to them
[16:53] <jutnux> zleap: Well if they don't move they're going to lose lots o' money.
[16:54] <shauno> but how much does that trickle down to the people debating the bill?  convincing one small business owner to call their local representative, makes a lot more difference than convincing 1000 people to move their domains away from one SOPA supporter
[16:54] <shauno> I fear people are getting distracted fighting the wrong fights
[16:54] <zleap> what i meant was teven if they back down, the damage could be done,  people may lose trust in them and go elsewhere,  and then tell others
[16:55] <zleap> shauno, well any action is better than nothing,  but you are right,  i think there is other action being taken that is similar its just not gettingi on to forums
[16:55] <jutnux> shauno: People in the UK cannot do much so they can boycott the companies that support it.
[16:56] <shauno> the reps that 'get' the online response are almost all already on the right side.  the real fight is offline
[16:56] <zleap> and write to MPs urgening them to reject similar acts here
[16:57] <zleap> urging
[17:01] <popey> jutnux: not true
[17:02] <popey> i have contacted US senators before ☺
[17:02] <popey> and some reply ☺
[17:02] <MartijnVdS> popey: "You're not in my constituency.
[17:02] <popey> hah
[17:02] <jutnux> Oh right.
[17:02] <jutnux> Why does my Cat hide underneath my bed :-(
[17:03] <shauno> I have an SSN & a zipcode.  they'd actually have a fairly unreasonable time proving I'm not local
[17:04] <shauno> unfortunately I have handwriting that makes doctors look educated, so I tend to shy from these things lest it be mistaken for some abstract art / death threat
[17:05] <zleap> well british citizens can write to the US senators when it comes to things like the death penalty,  so why not this
[17:05] <MartijnVdS> your handwriting looks like mismatched letters cut from magazines?
[17:05] <shauno> it's got bad enough, that my signature on the postman's touchscreen thing is actually pretty accurate
[17:06] <zleap> I am sure that is happening in the case of gary Mckinnon (or what ever his name is)
[17:07] <shauno> outside of a restraining order, I'm fairly sure you can contact anyone, to some extent.  it just holds more weight if you're local .. or better yet, employ locals
[17:07] <zleap> yeah
[17:07] <shauno> (or even better .. spend obscene amounts of money "lobbying"
[17:07] <popey> zleap: thats very different he's a british citizen
[17:07] <paln> what happened in the last ten minutes?
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I wish I had obscene amounts of money :(
[17:07] <paln> my internet went down
[17:07] <zleap> I know but people are still writing to the US congress about it
[17:07] <popey> lots
[17:08] <zleap> yeah lots
[17:08] <popey> !logs | paln
[17:08]  * MartijnVdS has shiny magnets
[17:08] <zleap> we are dicussing SOPA and if we can write to US congress / senators about it
[17:08] <zleap> among other things
[17:08] <jutnux> Along with the GoDaddy boycott
[17:09] <zleap> yeah
[17:10] <shauno> I'm all for raising awareness online; I just think that poking americans to contact their rep should be the default position, rather than just trying to see how many you can roll into a relatively localized boycot
[17:10] <shauno> "if you have a rep, do $this.  If you don't, spread the word to someone who does"
[17:11] <shauno> else you just end up with a bunch of sabre-rattling on various online forums, and all the disconnected old men discussing the bill are (literally) none-the-wiser
[17:11] <paln> jutnux: who's boycotting GoDaddy and why?
[17:12] <jutnux> paln: Reddit, Imgur, ICanHazCheezburger
[17:12] <jutnux> Loads of other companies.
[17:12] <jutnux> Hopefully wikipedia
[17:12] <zleap> I iwll be bakc laer
[17:12] <paln> but why???
[17:12] <popey> paln: google + godaddy boycott + sopa
[17:13] <MooDoo> paln: because godady support sopa
[17:13] <zleap> back later
[17:13] <shauno> this time, because they're publically supporting SOPA.  the time before this, it was something to do with the owner shooting rhinos.  the time before that, was because all their advertising seemed to occur on tightly-fitting tanktops.  godaddy are no stranger to controversy
[17:13] <popey> lets not go through this all over again
[17:13] <paln> ah...that makes them fools
[17:13] <MooDoo> :D
[17:13] <paln> really?
[17:13] <paln> i always thought they were alright
[17:14] <paln> i agree, you've got it logged
[17:14] <paln> i can read over
[17:14] <paln> it
[17:14] <shauno> they're the walmart of domain registrations.  for everything they get wrong, the price is right.
[17:14] <paln> haha
[17:14] <paln> please dont say Wal-Mart
[17:14] <paln> we have Asda
[17:14] <jutnux> Asda \o/
[17:14] <paln> even though they own it
[17:15] <paln> :/
[17:15] <shauno> I never found asda to be anywhere near as despicable tho :)
[17:15] <paln> why do people contantly use "\o/" on IRC but nowhere else?
[17:15] <AlanBell> we moved all our domains to godaddy because we got screwed over by uklinux.net which kind of folded and the owners just gave up on it
[17:15] <paln> is it just unknown to the outside world?
[17:15] <paln> shauno: fair enough, i guess
[17:15] <AlanBell> wanted to move our domains to somewhere big that specialised in domains
[17:16] <jutnux> namecheap
[17:16] <paln> AlanBell: good choice, you dont' want to be registered with someone who'll just give up /ignore their members after a month or two :D
[17:16] <paln> plus, GoDaddy tends too be pretty cheap at times
[17:16] <jutnux> These other hosts are loving the new way to get business
[17:16] <paln> brb
[17:16] <jutnux> "Use the code STOPGODADDY to get 20% off today!"
[17:16] <AlanBell> name.com looked OK from a cursory inspection this morning
[17:17] <shauno> I like ghandi, but they kinda fail on pricing
[17:17] <christel> i have a fair few domains with godaddy, i also have some with gandi
[17:17] <AlanBell> also godaddy is getting more and more annoying with their attempts to upsell stuff to you
[17:17] <paln> im bak :/
[17:17] <christel> i like gandi, but as many have pointed out, godaddy tends to win on price
[17:17] <paln> that was ridiculously quick
[17:17] <AlanBell> I am not particularly price sensitive, it isn't many domains
[17:18] <paln> jutnux: (Y)
[17:18] <christel> gandi are decent, and you can harass them in #gandi! gotta love the french
[17:18] <christel> they're also Mad about FOSS
[17:18] <christel> :)
[17:18] <shauno> gandi won out for me on technical grounds; they were the only big-name registrar I could find that let me put ipv6 entries in my NS glue
[17:18] <AlanBell> I have 16 domains at godaddy
[17:18] <paln> AlanBell: whoa
[17:18] <paln> who needs that many sites?
[17:19] <AlanBell> some I don't need, they were for old projects
[17:19] <paln> albeit, you do run a major part of ubuntu-UK
[17:20] <shauno> Mr Cheeseburger apparently has 1000+ he's holding over their heads.  I found that rather disturbing
[17:21] <paln> shauno, uh...wtf?
[17:21] <shauno> the chap behind 'icanhazcheeseburger'
[17:21] <AlanBell> ASTORYFORBEDTIME.COM GIVEHUGS.NET LIBERTUS.CO.UK NAKEDCOMPUTERS.ORG OSITIVE.CO.UK OSITIVE.COM PLANETA11Y.ORG POLYFRIENDS.ORG.UK SOFTWAREFREEDOM.BIZ STROLL2SCHOOL.COM STROLLTOSCHOOL.COM THEOPENLEARNINGCENTRE.COM VOTEGEEK.ORG.UK WEBBOOKBLOG.COM WEBBOOKHQ.COM WEBBOOKHQ.ORG
[17:22] <paln> yea, i kno who he is but why would he have so many
[17:22] <paln> ???
[17:22] <shauno> I assume it's either a profitable tactic to have as many spammy lolcatz sites as possible
[17:22] <shauno> or he has an issue with vodka+impulse shopping
[17:22] <paln> just to redirect you to the main URL haha :D
[17:23] <AlanBell> people get them for ideas they think of and keep them rather than let them go
[17:23] <AlanBell> some of mine never got used
[17:23] <AlanBell> ositive was a possible company name, but we ended up with libertus
[17:23] <AlanBell> givehugs.net hasn't been implemented yet
[17:23] <shauno> I have some that never got used, but convincing my webhost suddenly fail at comprehension when I try to stop renewing them without cancelling my service altogether
[17:24] <shauno> (that was a sentence in my head. sorry - long day)
[17:27] <christel> aww givehugs.net
[17:27] <paln> shauno, no wonder it made no sense to me
[17:27] <christel> how sweet
[17:27] <popey> 17:15:21 < paln> why do people contantly use "\o/" on IRC but nowhere else?
[17:27] <kvarley> Does anybody know of any software which can read from a USB OBDII device? OBDII is a connector system for cars which lets you view faults and realtime information.
[17:27] <popey> do it on skype
[17:27] <popey> see what happens
[17:28] <popey> kvarley: google probably does
[17:28] <jutnux> Skype <3
[17:28] <shauno> popey: hopefully not much.  It'd be rather rude for people to comment on his tourettes'
[17:28] <popey> eh?
[17:29] <shauno> if someone used \o/ as punctuation in person, that'd be my first suspicion
[17:29] <paln> popey: i know what it is
[17:29] <christel> i frequently throw my hands up in the air irl
[17:29] <paln> i just dont see it often
[17:29] <christel> both in glee and frustration!
[17:29] <paln> in fact, only on IRC
[17:29] <directhex> like you just don't care?
[17:29] <popey> paln: i didnt say you didnt know what it was
[17:29] <christel> directhex: haha <3
[17:29] <paln> its like its only used here
[17:29] <popey> paln: my point was it is used on skype too
[17:30] <paln> ah
[17:30] <paln> hehe sorry
[17:30] <christel> AlanBell: give me all your hugs
[17:30] <popey> hence me saying 'do it on skype see what happens'
[17:30] <christel> and tell me about your poly friends, are any of them cute and may i borrow them
[17:30] <popey> you get an animated man
[17:30] <shauno> ah, I thought you meant on camera. Now I see why my response was odd
[17:30] <paln> popey: really? that's unusual
[17:35] <daubers> I GOT MY PHONE BACK FROM THE MENDERS!!!!!
[17:35] <paln> would you rather learn to program by starting with code and then moving on to writing GUI apps, or writing GUI apps in a simple way and then examining the concepts in setail afterwards?
[17:35] <daubers> \o/
[17:35] <paln> daubers: what phone?
[17:35]  * daubers waits for it to update
[17:35] <paln> e
[17:36] <AlanBell> christel: *hugs*
[17:36] <daubers> n900 goes back in the cupboard of DOOM!
[17:36] <AlanBell> run out now
[17:36] <shauno> paln, I tend to find a real-world problem I want to fix, and work backwards from there.  If I've no motication to see/use the end results, it gets old quickly
[17:36] <christel> \o/
[17:36]  * christel hugs AlanBell
[17:36] <AlanBell> christel: polyfriends was an elgg social networking site for St Polycarps
[17:36] <christel> i appaear to have 110 domains with godaddy
[17:36] <AlanBell> never quite got going though
[17:37] <christel> AlanBell: oh! i assumed there was er, less networking and more key swapping based on the domain name
[17:37]  * christel blushes
[17:37] <AlanBell> givehugs.net will be cool
[17:37] <AlanBell> christel: nope, I am sweet and innocent
[17:37] <daubers> heh
[17:37] <popey> LIES
[17:37] <christel> my dreams, all shattered yet again!
[17:37]  * christel tickles AlanBell
[17:37] <AlanBell> nakedcomputers.org is also sweeter and more innocent than it might sound to the uninitiated
[17:37] <christel> yeah? what's the plan for givehugs? :)
[17:38] <christel> is it like flattr but with more hugs?
[17:38] <AlanBell> it will be a non-evil "like" button
[17:38] <AlanBell> or a +1 button
[17:38] <christel> ooh
[17:38] <jutnux> Just make it +o
[17:38] <jutnux> or +<>
[17:38] <christel> nono, \o/
[17:38]  * christel hides
[17:39]  * popey just realised he's out in AlanBell's neck of the woods this evening
[17:39] <AlanBell> orly?
[17:39] <christel> popey: oooh?
[17:40] <shauno> I'm a little miffed that I'm finally in the UK next week, and HazRPG is leaving the country 6 hours before I get there
[17:40] <paln> shauno, haha
[17:40] <paln> :D
[17:40] <paln> unlucky much?
[17:40] <shauno> I'm not sure there's luck involved.  I think he planned it.
[17:41] <popey> http://g.co/maps/8f446  <- there
[17:41] <paln> shauno, no unlucky that you're arriving a little late :P
[17:43] <paln> i find it funny that there are so many people on this channel yet only 8 people are actually talking
[17:43] <christel> popey: lobster pot?
[17:43] <AlanBell> popey: that pub has the worst B&B rooms in the world
[17:43] <christel> it is also 200 metres from my house
[17:43] <christel> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[17:43] <christel> be afraid
[17:43] <christel> be very afraid popey
[17:43] <christel> ;)
[17:43] <AlanBell> ooh, maybe it isn't the one I thought it was, not stayed there
[17:44] <paln> christel: lol maybe not by coincidence
[17:44] <jutnux> Naked Scientist show \o/
[17:45] <monsterwizard> wait what?
[17:45] <christel> AlanBell: we should go be obnoxious at the table next to popey and just accidentally bump into him
[17:45]  * christel nods
[17:45] <shauno> that can't be safe.  Eye protection, people!
[17:45] <monsterwizard> jutnux where?
[17:45] <paln> what are we even discussing at this point?
[17:45] <paln> i didnt see anyone change the subject
[17:46] <popey> paln: please.
[17:46]  * paln is confused :S
[17:46] <shauno> naked scientists and popey's lobster.  sometimes, clarification isn't all it's cracked up to be
[17:47] <jutnux> Naked Scientists is a podcast.
[17:47] <jutnux> A good one too!
[17:47] <paln> popey's lobster???
[17:47] <paln> even more confused :D
[17:47] <popey> i like naked scientists
[17:47] <paln> jutnux, might check it out
[17:47]  * popey kicks gpodder
[17:47]  * jutnux is using gPodder \o/
[17:48] <AlanBell> could someone remove this picture of Brian Cox from my mind please
[17:48] <jutnux> The mullet one?
[17:48] <monsterwizard> why?
[17:48] <monsterwizard> that guy is awesome
[17:48] <monsterwizard> and sexy :o
[17:48] <christel> AlanBell: is this one of brian cox wearing nothing but a lobster?
[17:48] <popey> https://gpodder.net/
[17:49] <popey> we're in the top 10 :D
[17:49] <christel> (could be worse, could be alan cox wearing nothing but a lobster)
[17:49] <paln> #8
[17:50]  * AlanBell thinks "wearing nothing but a lobster" could be meme-worthy
[17:50] <monsterwizard> is gpodder good?
[17:50] <monsterwizard> Does it actually update?
[17:50] <popey> http://gpodder.net/user/popey/subscriptions   <- my subscriptions
[17:50] <popey> yes monsterwizard
[17:50] <paln> AlanBell: maybe it could be a meme
[17:50] <monsterwizard> I'm having trouble finding a good podcast catcher
[17:50] <popey> get gpodder, it is good
[17:50] <AlanBell> wow, never knew there were so many podcasts
[17:51] <kvarley> popey: Found some software written in python which should work, I will also be able to use CLI tools =] Gonna be saving some cash and avoiding the drive to the garage, win win!
[17:51] <popey> yay
[17:51] <popey> AlanBell: this is where itunes is great for podcast discovery
[17:51] <monsterwizard> wow that's a huge list
[17:52] <popey> handy to have it sync the list up to the site
[17:52] <jutnux> I just downloaded Popey's list from his blog and added some of my own
[17:52] <paln> i reall need to get into the community
[17:52] <paln> *really
[17:52] <paln> kind of feel on my own :(
[17:53] <shauno> you're missing The Bugle!
[17:53] <popey> http://www.thebuglepodcast.com/ ?
[17:53] <shauno> that's the one  (altho they're shedding The Times in the very near future)
[17:54]  * popey adds http://podcast.timesonline.co.uk/rss/thebuglemp3.rss ta
[17:54] <monsterwizard> if i delete all the possible epidoses will it still update for newer episodes?
[17:54] <jutnux> What is the bugle?
[17:54] <popey> yes
[17:54] <monsterwizard> cool
[17:54] <popey> jutnux: look up about 4 lines
[17:55] <jutnux> Oh yes
[17:55] <shauno> it's a weekly (well, most weeks) rip-on-the-news type comedy, which ers on the side of complete absurdity
[17:55] <popey> excellent
[17:55] <popey> i quite like andy z
[17:55] <popey> prefer his sister tho
[17:55] <Seeker`> popey: would you like him better if he were wearing nothing but a lobster?
[17:56] <shauno> I don't like this meme anymore.  make the bad man stop!
[17:56]  * shauno googles unicorns
[17:56] <jutnux> Is Brian Cox on the naked scientists?
[17:57] <jutnux> Sounds like him
[18:00] <popey> no jutnux
[18:00] <popey> they say their names at the start of the show!
[18:01] <MartijnVdS> also, Brian Cox has quite a recognisable accent
[18:02] <AlanBell> what is a good thing to associate with mp3 and ogg files that just plays the things? Banshee isn't what I want and now I have it launching podcasts in audacity
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> totem
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> vlc
[18:03] <popey> gstreamer :D
[18:03] <popey> yeah, I'd go with totem
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> gst-launch 8-)
[18:03] <popey> thassim
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> popey++
[18:04] <shauno> I really want to say quicktime, but I think I've been not-funny enough for one day
[18:04] <monsterwizard> moive player
[18:04] <popey> is that like moire player?
[18:04] <popey> or moria player?
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> moria playa?
[18:04] <popey> i now have a sip phone on my desk
[18:04] <popey> it works, and I love it
[18:04] <monsterwizard> it plays mp3s ust as well as video files
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> popey: I have one as well. It's my Android phone ;)
[18:04] <popey> heh
[18:05] <popey> this is a cisco thingy
[18:05] <popey> 7940
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> I used to have a Grandstream one
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> but I never used it
[18:05] <popey> i want to put the 24 ringtone on it
[18:05] <AlanBell> with totem can you turn off the image window to make it just player controls? I turned off the visualisation but that just shows a clapperboard
[18:05] <popey> mine is connected to sipgate and canonical, works really nicely
[18:05] <popey> AlanBell: press h and then press 0
[18:05] <popey> oh, oyther way round
[18:06] <AlanBell> yeah, opposite of that :)
[18:06] <popey> you can do it with vlc :D
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> you can do it with gst-launch
[18:06] <popey> and vlc has a santa hat on the cone which makes it better than totem
[18:06] <AlanBell> vlc is looking like the favourite
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> or write a small .html with a video tag, and open it in chrome --kiosk
[18:07] <zleap> back
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> (am I overthinking this?)
[18:07] <shauno> MartijnVdS: that might explain why you think perl is normal :p
[18:07] <shauno> points for the most convoluted way to open an ogg
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> shauno: I don't need my brain anymore to write Perl
[18:07] <zleap> yeah vlc does that every year nice fun feature
[18:08] <popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/omg-5-five-lightweight-music-players/
[18:08] <AlanBell> ok, so I like vlc, now how do I get the file associations fixed?
[18:08] <shauno> MartijnVdS: switch your keyboard to dvorak, and let your cat write it for you :)
[18:08] <popey> right click, properties, open with
[18:09] <popey> highlight the app, 'set as default'
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> for each file type
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> separately
[18:09] <popey> video and audio is broken for me on 12.04
[18:09] <AlanBell> aah, that is the key, did it for ogg and this podcast is an mp3
[18:09] <popey> every video skips at like twice speed
[18:09] <popey> in flash and vlc
[18:09] <MartijnVdS> popey: saves time. Feature.
[18:09] <popey> i blame pulseuaudio
[18:10] <popey> LEEEENAAAAAAAAAAAART!
[18:10] <shauno> I wonder if patenting this feature would get it fixed quicker
[18:11] <zleap> yeah it would probably end up removed
[18:12] <jutnux> popey: Ubuntu 12.04 died on my desktop
[18:13] <popey> same here ☺
[18:13] <popey> had to reboot
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> It died for me too,but slowly
[18:14] <jutnux> I had to put 11.10 back on
[18:14] <popey> blimey
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> only udisks.. then the USB subsystem
[18:14] <popey> thats drastic
[18:14] <MartijnVdS> after a reboot everything was fine
[18:15] <paln> back again
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> paln: we can see that, no need to announce it every time :)
[18:16] <jutnux> How rude MartijnVdS
[18:16] <AlanBell> not a bit of it, MartijnVdS was being helpful
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: I like to treat the "[ person has joined ]" messages as implicit greetings
[18:17] <shauno> hence the tactical smiley
[18:17] <jutnux> I saw no such message
[18:17] <jutnux> Perhaps it is just me :-P
[18:17]  * AlanBell wonders whether it will stop raining
[18:17] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: also, I can /ignore those if I want less noise on my screen
[18:17] <jutnux> I was joking by the way...
[18:17] <AlanBell> jutnux: yeah, different clients turn them on and off, generally they get a bit annoying so I divert them all to a separate window
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: What kind of time frame were you thinking of?
[18:18] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: in a walking to a pub on the other side of town timeframe
[18:18] <paln> MartijnVdS: just saying :/ 'cause i was just away
[18:18] <paln> not offline
[18:18] <shauno> there goes the Ice Age prediction :/
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> Isn't that why the British invented umbrellas and the raincoat?
[18:18] <MartijnVdS> paln: no problem :) You're new to irc, still learning (I guess?)
[18:19] <MartijnVdS> shauno: First, the rain age. THEN the ice age.
[18:19] <paln> of course MartijnVdS
[18:19] <shauno> I've been in Ireland since 2006.  I believe this _is_ the Rain Age
[18:19] <paln> jutnux: you didnt get a notification cause there was no need
[18:19] <paln> i didnt come back online as i was never offline, just idle
[18:20] <paln> shauno: haha
[18:26]  * MartijnVdS watches(!) a marathon radio broadcast for charity
[18:28] <paln> you're /watching/ the radio?
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> paln: yes :) Dutch radio is awesome like that ;)
[18:33]  * paln is very bored tonight
[18:33]  * jutnux is too
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> paln: try this in totem/vlc: http://livestreams.omroep.nl/npo/3fm_vsr-bb (might not work outside .nl but you can try)
[18:34]  * paln needs to get into the Linux community more
[18:34] <AlanBell> http://harvest.ubuntu.com/ < boredom fixed \o/
[18:35] <paln> MartijnVdS: now I see how you're watching the radio
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> paln: we have a "red button"-like channel as well
[18:35] <paln> MartijnVdS: cool
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> paln: which shows that on "normal" TVs
[18:36] <paln> AlanBell: trying it now
[18:36] <paln> MartijnVdS: awesome
[18:36] <paln> MartijnVdS: so you're in the Netherlands, I presume?
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> I am, yes
[18:38] <paln> MartijnVdS: are your from the UK though?
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> paln: no
[18:39] <paln> MartijnVdS: what's your reason for being on #ubuntu-uk
[18:40] <paln> just so there's a bigger audience, or...?
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> paln: because people on #ubuntu-nl don't know what they're doing (or didn't a few years ago anyway :)
[18:42] <paln> MartijnVdS: ah, alright
[18:42] <paln> AlanBell: How do you sign in to Ubuntu Harvest using your Launchpad?
[18:43] <AlanBell> paln: really not too sure, kind of just worked for me
[18:43] <AlanBell> I have not really used harvest, only saw it for the first time a few days ago
[18:44] <jutnux> I want to start working on bugs
[18:44] <paln> AlanBell: I dont' have any bugs, so the boredom still lies within me
[18:44] <jutnux> I seem to start on one then do something else
[18:45] <paln> jutnux: Similar issue with me
[18:45] <AlanBell> testing things and reporting bugs is good to do as well
[18:45] <paln> ...I get into something, then forget about it for a month or two
[18:45] <AlanBell> and testing stuff with orca the screenreader is really interesting
[18:46] <paln> Orca has NEVER worked for me
[18:46] <paln> I guess I just don't know how to use it
[18:46] <AlanBell> it isn't easy!
[18:46] <paln> Is there speech recognition at all for Linux / Ubuntu?
[18:46] <paln> I find it handy in Windows; I use it really often
[18:46] <bigcalm> Ask the Software Centre?
[18:46] <AlanBell> very little. There are two recognition engines, CMUSphinx and Julius
[18:47] <AlanBell> and there is something called simon-listens which uses Julius and is a pretty decent command recognition tool for controlling the desktop
[18:47] <AlanBell> continuous speech dictation doesn't really work at all
[18:48] <paln> bigcalm: unfortunately no results
[18:48] <paln> AlanBell: that's a shame
[18:49] <AlanBell> it is a really really hard problem
[18:50] <paln> I think I saw a site for submitting sound samples of sentences somewhere...can't remember where though!
[18:52] <paln> Found it on Google: VoxForge
[18:53] <paln> They simply collect samples of sentences being said in different dialects
[18:53] <paln> They even divide English into various accents :D
[18:54] <AlanBell> http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378
[18:55] <gordonjcp> paln: well that's kind of handy
[18:55] <gordonjcp> paln: I always think it's funny when Americans talk about someone having a "British accent"
[18:57] <paln> gordonjcp: yeah
[18:58] <paln> It's even funnier when a British guy imitates an American putting on a British accent
[18:58] <gordonjcp> paln: well Americans mostly seem to end up doing some ridiculous Dick van Dyke cockney thing
[18:59] <paln> gordonjcp: That, or enunciating "Harry Potter"
[18:59] <gordonjcp> never mind accent, I don't even speak the same language as most of the people in this channel
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> 'arry po'eh
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> paln: like that? :)
[19:00] <gordonjcp> oh christ glottal stops
[19:00] <gordonjcp> they give me the rage
[19:00] <gordonjcp> "glo'ul stops"

[19:00] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: haha :)
[19:01] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: wa'uh
[19:01] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: jeez, I was in London last week
[19:01] <paln> pretty much, yeah
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: yeah they do it a lot there :)
[19:02] <gordonjcp> I could understand the French staff in the hotel far more easily than I could understand the locals
[19:03] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: in fairness you would get subtitles if you were on the BBC :)
[19:03] <paln> gordonjcp: why wouldn't you be able to understand the French -- it's their language -- Americans just try to be different Englishmen
[19:04] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I have quite frequently been on the BBC
[19:04] <paln> AlanBell: I put on subtitles all the time; it's a habit
[19:04]  * MartijnVdS turns on subtitles for his irc window
[19:05] <gordonjcp> I don't really have much of an accent at all, having grown up with one parent with an RP accent and one with a bit of a public school accent
[19:05] <paln> MartijnVdS: that's ridonkulous, IRC is composed of subtitles
[19:06] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: a lot of people here think I sound English; it seems to be very roughly 50:50 between English and Scottish
[19:06] <gordonjcp> then there are the weird outliers
[19:06] <paln> why is every twitter username I want taken?
[19:06] <paln> paln is taken
[19:06] <gordonjcp> lots of people think I am Norwegian, and a couple think I sound Canadian
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Yorkshireites?
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> (Yorkshirians?)
[19:07] <paln> MartijnVdS: lol :D
[19:07] <paln> The Yorkshish
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> Yorksheesh
[19:07] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I don't know what they think I sound like
[19:07] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: you do speak very clearly, but I think quite a recognisable scottish accent
[19:08] <paln> AlanBell: you know gordonjcp in person?
[19:08] <christel> bloody scots impersonating norwegians at every opportunity
[19:09] <AlanBell> yeah, he camped in my garden for a few days :)
[19:09] <paln> AlanBell: seriously?
[19:09] <AlanBell> christel: I always thought you were scottish ;)
[19:09] <christel> AlanBell: hahaha
[19:09] <paln> christel: where did you come from??? :P
[19:09] <gordonjcp> christel: :-p
[19:10] <popey> https://gist.github.com/1505483
[19:11] <dwatkins> let it /dev/snow
[19:11] <paln> popey: awesome
[19:11] <paln> dwatkins: haha :D
[19:12] <paln> AlanBell: what was this about an Ubuntu Youth channel earlier?
[19:12] <popey> http://popey.com/~alan/snow.png
[19:12] <paln> when ~jutnux was here
[19:12] <paln> popey: I think I'll do that on my tty
[19:12] <mattt> lolz: http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378&isc=smtwsup
[19:13] <jutnux> I am still here.
[19:14] <jutnux> Have you got a vps popey?
[19:15] <popey> i have
[19:15] <jutnux> Who is your provider? :-)
[19:15] <popey> bitfolk
[19:15] <paln> popey: I get an error with your script for snowy terminal:
[19:15] <paln> /home/paln97/snowy.sh: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `('
[19:15] <paln> /home/paln97/snowy.sh: line 2: `<!-- saved from url=(0089)https://raw.github.com/gist/1505483/d2d063f0bb3252b201b731fe665f21b93e7867dc/gistfile1.sh -->'
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> bytemark for me
[19:16] <popey> jutnux: i highly recommend bitfolk ☺
[19:16] <mattt> rackspace for me :P
[19:16] <jutnux> I will have a look at both :-)
[19:16] <bigcalm> popey: would you recommend somebody for server monitoring and updating?
[19:16] <paln> mattt, hahahahahahaha! goDaddy has finally seen the light!!!
[19:17] <jutnux> Link?!
[19:17] <paln> http://www.godaddy.com/newscenter/release-view.aspx?news_item_id=378&isc=smtwsup
[19:17] <mattt> paln: yeh, just saw that on hacker news
[19:17] <paln> mattt, i know i clicked your link ;)
[19:17]  * popey is going out
[19:17] <popey> ttfn
[19:17] <zleap> paln, ubuntu youth is for young people so they have their own area set up by young people i guess
[19:17] <paln> popey, i got an error with your snowy terminal script!
[19:18] <paln> zleap: ah cool, thz for the info zleap
[19:18] <zleap> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuYouth
[19:18] <zleap> np
[19:18] <zleap> best to hang out in several channels this channel is always pretty active
[19:19] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Is it just me? Or did it just get awful quiet? - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=34
[19:22] <zleap> brb
[19:23] <dwatkins> I hang out in about 7 channels
[19:25] <paln> whats the channel name for UY?
[19:25] <paln> dw, found it
[19:25] <paln> its #ubuntu-youth
[19:26] <jutnux> No one talks in it haha
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> because it's past bedtime?
[19:26] <MartijnVdS> or because they're all out partying?
[19:27] <dwatkins> Well it is Friday night...
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: could still be either :)
[19:27] <paln> jutnux: i realised that
[19:28] <paln> MartijnVdS: they've probably fallen asleep /whilst/ partying :P
[19:28] <paln> dwatkins: I didn't realise it was Friday -- I though it was Wednesday
[19:28] <dwatkins> wow, you must be on holiday
[19:28] <paln> I'm slow today :/
[19:28] <paln> nope, at home
[19:28] <paln> hardly ever go on holiday
[19:29] <dwatkins> I mean not at school/work etc.
[19:29] <paln> just lazy this week
[19:29] <paln> it being holidays and all
[19:29] <paln> dwatkins: oh right...then yea, as i said above
[19:29] <paln> Hey guys, is there any way to change your Launchpad username?
[19:29] <paln> Launchpad ID
[19:31] <dwatkins> You probably can't, but you could always just register a new one.
[19:31] <jutnux> You can I think.
[19:31] <jutnux> Just click on your name
[19:31] <jutnux> then change the settings
[19:33] <jutnux> Ugh
[19:33] <jutnux> got family coming round
[19:35] <paln> jutnux: there's no pencil next to Launchpad ID
[19:35] <paln> just email etc.
[19:36] <jutnux> oh
[19:36] <paln> dwatkins: too much hassle for me :D
[19:36] <jutnux> make a new id then
[19:36] <paln> or can you assign different ids to the same e-mail?
[19:38] <zleap> you can change the display name
[19:38] <zleap> goto change details
[19:38] <AlanBell> you can merge two launchpad accounts
[19:39] <paln> i found a way to change it anyway
[19:39] <paln> rather than there being an edit button next to LP ID
[19:40] <paln> there is one where it says "Change details"
[19:40]  * zleap just said that
[19:41]  * paln is sorry for not seeing zleap's statement
[19:41] <zleap> np
[19:41] <paln> ;)
[19:42] <zleap> :)
[19:44] <paln> What to discuss now?
[19:44] <zleap> dunno
[19:48] <paln> How do you create /public/ PGP keys???
[19:48] <paln> I can only seem to conjure up private ones :/
[19:48] <Nafallo> paln: private ones usually comes with a public counterpart.
[19:48] <paln> Nafallo: any knowledge on how you access them?
[19:49] <paln> I generated mine in "Passwords and Keys" in Ubuntu 11.10
[19:49] <Nafallo> paln: what are you trying to achieve?
[19:49] <zleap> pgp keys are in two parts  private and public
[19:50] <paln> Trying to generate a PGP key to push to the Ubuntu Key server so I can sign the Code of Conduct on Launchpad
[19:50] <AlanBell> there are some good step by step tutorials on that
[19:51] <AlanBell> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/2010/12/22/004-SigningCoC
[19:51] <paln> I'm on this page: https://launchpad.net/~paln/+editpgpkeys
[19:51] <paln> AlanBell: thanks for the URL
[19:51] <Nafallo> paln: gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys <your key id>
[19:52] <zleap> if you have a gpg key already download the code of conduct and as far as I am aware you do pgp --clearsign  code of conduct.txt  and you end up with code of confuct.asc whichis the signed one,  which you paste in to the box
[19:52] <paln> Nafallo: thx but no worries now...I think
[19:52] <zleap> you enter your private key to sign it
[19:52] <paln> you too zleap :)
[19:52] <zleap> ok np
[19:56] <zleap> wow, godaddy has pulled support for SOPA (google+)
[19:56] <zleap> 24 hours since boycott was suggested
[19:56] <Nafallo> heh. loads of people migrated from them, right? :-)
[19:57] <zleap> or were talking about it
[19:57] <Nafallo> I saw some of the tweets :-)
[20:03] <jutnux> I think it'll still go ahead
[20:03] <paln> got two errors whilst sync'ing PGP keys
[20:03] <paln> jutnux: most likely
[20:08] <paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server: keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371 "Couldn't communicate with server 'keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371': Internal Server Error"
[20:08] <paln> ...and...
[20:09]  * TheOpenSourcerer says have have a great Christmas as he is now off to wrap and watch telly and probably not online much now till next week.
[20:09] <paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server:pool.sks-keyservers.net "Couldn't communicate with server 'pool.sks-keyservers.net': OK"
[20:09] <paln> any help?
[20:10] <monsterwizard> can someone recommend some motivational songs#?
[20:10] <paln> Nafallo: got any advice?
[20:10] <zleap> we will rock you
[20:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ha GoDaddy drops support for SOPA: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/12/victory-boycott-forces-godaddy-to-drop-its-support-for-sopa.ars
[20:11] <gordonjcp> monsterwizard: I always feel pretty motivated when I listen to Minor Threat - Straight Edge
[20:11] <monsterwizard> I'll give it a go
[20:11] <Nafallo> paln: local firewall?
[20:12] <paln> dont' have a firewall
[20:12] <gordonjcp> monsterwizard: here you go -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmFHLptvauU
[20:12] <monsterwizard> cheers
[20:13] <gordonjcp> it's quite short, you might need to play it a couple of times before it works
[20:13] <gordonjcp> if it doesn't work right away try again with it louder
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> woo, finally installed vnc on my windows box
[20:15] <monsterwizard> lol less than 60 secs
[20:18] <paln> Nafallo: can't find any help online :/
[20:19] <paln> MartijnVdS: VNC irritates me on Windows
[20:19] <paln> Remote Desktop on Ubuntu is a lot less hassle
[20:20] <paln> soooo much easier
[20:20] <paln> but congrats! :D
[20:21] <paln> can anyone else help me?
[20:21] <paln> getting an error upon trying to sync my PGP key with the Ubuntu keyserver
[20:21] <paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server: keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371 "Couldn't communicate with server 'keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371': Internal Server Error"
[20:21] <paln> and
[20:21] <AlanBell> paln: the problem might well be on the server side
[20:21] <paln> Couldn't retrieve keys from server:pool.sks-keyservers.net "Couldn't communicate with server 'pool.sks-keyservers.net': OK"
[20:22] <paln> AlanBell: thought so, but im hoping its on mine so i can do it :P
[20:22] <AlanBell> the server is up http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
[20:23] <gordonjcp> I can't get tired of this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KvxOuC7Bhc
[20:23] <paln> the key server list i have lists fkp://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/
[20:23] <paln> the difference being "fkp://"
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> that's just the protocol
[20:27] <paln> MartijnVdS: alrightey then
[20:27] <zleap> i have it as hkp here
[20:28] <MartijnVdS> hkp sounds better
[20:29] <zleap> i just looked on my password and encryption keys
[20:29] <paln> i think it is hkp actually
[20:29] <paln> i mean on my side too
[20:29] <zleap> HTTP Keyserver Protocol (HKP)
[20:30] <paln> dw, tried again and they sync'd
[20:30] <zleap> :)
[20:39] <paln> now i just have to wait for Launchpad to recognise my key :?
[20:39] <paln> :/
[20:39] <paln> more waiting
[20:39]  * paln yawns
[20:39] <zleap> hmm according  to click its using ubuntu
[20:39] <paln> zleap, what's using Ubuntu?
[20:39] <paln> the Raspberry Pi?
[20:39] <zleap> yeah
[20:40] <zleap> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9504208.stm
[20:40] <zleap> but what is in the back ground is not ubuntu
[20:43] <paln> according to om ubuntu its using ubuntu
[20:44] <paln> *omg ubuntu
[20:44] <zleap> hmm
[20:44] <paln> it was lubuntu on the screen wasnt it?
[20:45] <zleap> not sure i think it was a kde desktop
[20:45] <paln> it had lxde
[20:45] <paln> im watching the vid now
[20:45] <zleap> yeah its something DE
[20:45] <zleap> oddly we said here it was arm 7 and click are saying arm 11
[20:46] <zleap> it runs fedora and debian
[20:47] <paln> i have that copy of tomb raider
[20:47] <paln> !!!
[20:47] <zleap> :)
[20:47]  * zleap has lots of spectrum games
[20:48] <brobostigon> HIGNFY on in a minute, bbc1.
[20:50] <paln> i think kids that are interested and know this stuff should opt in to become tutors for Comp Sci
[20:50]  * paln doesn't know what a Spectrum is :S
[20:51]  * paln ws surprised to see a Commodore 64, though!
[20:51] <paln> *was
[20:51] <paln> AW, THE TWO RONNIES WAS ON!!!! hopefully on iPlayer
[20:52] <zleap> the spectrum was the better of the two
[20:53]  * zleap ducks and hides
[20:53] <zleap> it did show a spectrum ]
[20:53] <paln> yea but i'd never heard of them
[20:53] <zleap> but they showed the 48k (rubber key one)
[20:54] <zleap> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/
[20:54] <zleap> :)
[20:56]  * brobostigon has one of those upstairs stored away.
[20:57] <jutnux> Back
[21:00] <MartijnVdS> Time to wash your best black clothes? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-philip/8976636/Prince-Philip-undergoes-precautionary-tests-after-suffering-chest-pains.html
[21:05]  * paln is having dinner now
[21:05]  * paln will be back soon!
[21:05] <zleap> k
[21:07] <jutnux> ok
[21:16] <zleap> hi feisar
[21:16] <feisar> zleap: hi
[21:16] <zleap> how are you
[21:16] <feisar> good cheers, you?
[21:16] <zleap> i am good
[21:17] <feisar> sorry I'm not sure I can remember, have we chatted much before?
[21:18] <zleap> don't think so
[21:18] <feisar> oh that's fine : )
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> Alcohol \o/
[21:19] <feisar> hi MartijnVdS
[21:19] <feisar> I too have had a couple of mulled wines...
[21:19] <feisar> so what are you guys up to?
[21:22] <zleap> not much
[21:22] <feisar> I'm in the process of setting up a web server, just got a vps with Bitfolk, you heard of them?
[21:23] <feisar> (running lucid lts)
[21:23] <MartijnVdS> feisar: they're quite popular with Ubuntuites
[21:23] <feisar> the service seems to be very good, I did a clean install setting things up exactly how I wanted - originally heard about them on Linux Outlaws
[21:25] <feisar> until now I have been running centos on my servers
[21:26] <feisar> my mail server still does but I'm really enjoying using Ubuntu
[21:28]  * daubers throws oblivion on the xbox
[21:29] <jutnux> Finally got my head around bzr \o/
[21:30] <zleap> yay
[21:30] <zleap> wb paln
[21:32] <feisar> ok, here's a question, mysql or postgrey?
[21:33] <jutnux> GoDaddy boycott is still going ahead btw
[21:34] <Azelphur> indeed, if your using godaddy for your domain switch away, they support SOPA :@
[21:34] <Azelphur> a good alternative is namecheap, they even have a coupon code going at the moment: SOPASUCKS
[21:35] <zleap> jutnux, sounds like they are now being punished for even thinking about supporting, well the law will show no mercy to anyone so why should we show mercy to them
[21:36] <paln> thanks zleap
[21:36] <zleap> np
[21:36] <paln> feisar: postgrey?
[21:36] <paln> jutnux: \o/ riots! \o/
[21:36] <jutnux> zleap: They helped to write the SOPA bill.
[21:36] <zleap> ah
[21:36] <paln> jutnux: wha-?
[21:37] <jutnux> And Gina Tripani is retweeting everything about them
[21:37] <paln> jutnux: teehee they're soon to be dead then?
[21:37] <jutnux> Doubt it.
[21:38] <paln> jutnux: good they have good offers
[21:38] <zleap> no they just lose customers,
[21:38] <paln> just bad principles
[21:39] <paln> well IMO you pay someone for their service, not for how they treat you (even if it is mutiny to all)
[21:39] <paln> but SOPA is just a load of ****
[21:39] <zleap> paln, when you get back to school if they ask what you did over xmas you can say you had a highly technical discussion on the SOPA bill
[21:40] <paln> zleap: ;D cos I did
[21:40] <zleap> yeah
[21:40] <paln> I can use this is Citizenship class :)
[21:40] <zleap> actually thats agood point get it some exposure
[21:40] <paln> you actually just gave me an awesome idea
[21:41] <paln> we have to analyse something we feel strongly about
[21:41] <paln> then we're gonna hold some form of protest next year for whatever we chose
[21:41] <zleap> software patents are the current big big issue
[21:41] <paln> SOPA shall die
[21:42] <paln> really? what's so bad about them?
[21:42] <jutnux> you crazy?
[21:42] <zleap> who
[21:42] <paln> me
[21:42] <paln> like I said, I'm not too engaged in the tech world ATM
[21:43] <paln> just your Cnet news and stuff
[21:43] <jutnux> Cnet :|
[21:43] <jutnux> Cnet = CBS
[21:43] <jutnux> CBS = Supporters of SOPA.
[21:43]  * paln is beginning to reconsider being friends with jutnux
[21:43] <paln> oh right
[21:43] <zleap> http://stopsoftwarepatents.eu/
[21:43] <paln> well they still have good news
[21:43] <jutnux> Hey, you can't reconsider being friends with me - I'm too cool.
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> !politics
[21:44] <zleap> ok google are beijng sued because there is a link to a phone number which when you click the link it dials the number
[21:44] <zleap> i think bt has a patent on that
[21:44] <DJones> Aren't the aims of SOPA to stop online piracy?
[21:44] <zleap> yes
[21:44] <jutnux> Yep
[21:44] <MartijnVdS> zleap: beijing sued? sounds Chinese? :)
[21:44] <zleap> i was just trying to explain why patents are bad
[21:45] <jutnux> Permission to PM you paln?
[21:45] <zleap> sorry being
[21:45] <zleap> sorry my keyboard is playing up
[21:45] <MartijnVdS> time for new batteries
[21:45] <DJones> zleap: jutnux So In that case, SOPA is a good thing, piracy is wrong, illegal etc
[21:45] <jutnux> No, it's bad.
[21:46] <paln> sure jutnux
[21:46] <DJones> The artist/developer of something has put their effort into it, they should be rewarded for it, rather than every tom, dick & harry ripping them off
[21:46] <zleap> no SOPA may mena if you post a music video somewhre or make your own but use music in the background you get sued for illigally using that music
[21:46] <jutnux> DJones: Except every tom, dick and harry do not rip them off.
[21:47] <zleap> i think the patent issue is also how the law is writtne or how the patent is described
[21:47] <monsterwizard> sopa will get passed
[21:47] <zleap> normally with engineering you have to submit how the patented idea works,  as in blue prints
[21:47] <paln> DJones: it attempts to be beneficial, yet it does it in such an idiotic manner that it could ruin the Internet as we know it; consider having Facebook and Wikipedia shut down, along with possibly Google
[21:47] <paln> monsterwizard: I'm afraid that's what it looks to be ATM...
[21:47] <zleap> but how do you do that with software methods of doing something (usually source code)
[21:47] <monsterwizard> in that case
[21:47] <monsterwizard> we're all screwed
[21:47] <paln> the software patent thing doesn't seem too bad to me
[21:47] <jutnux> Meh
[21:47] <DJones> paln: Thats one reason why the entire world should support SOPA -> Shutting Facebook down :)
[21:48] <paln> however I can see how it's kind of a big problem :/
[21:48] <monsterwizard> does google support SOPA
[21:48] <monsterwizard> ?
[21:48] <zleap> doubt it
[21:48] <paln> monsterwizard: don't think so
[21:49] <zleap> its mainly the film and music industry that are leading this
[21:49] <paln> DJones: don't hate on Facebook
[21:49] <monsterwizard> because youtube?
[21:49] <paln> just hate on its development team
[21:49] <zleap> due to all the downloading of movies etc
[21:49] <monsterwizard> the whole of youtuebe would need to chang
[21:49] <paln> monsterwizard: pretty much
[21:49] <zleap> under sopa you can get suied if you link to a page that links to copy righted material
[21:49] <monsterwizard> huge companies rule countries
[21:50] <monsterwizard> holy crap!
[21:50] <monsterwizard> this is madness
[21:50] <zleap> for something like that
[21:50] <paln> all those uploaded tv shows would have to go and the people responsible for uploading them would most likely be prosecuted a lot more easily
[21:50] <zleap> and if you link to them you could be too,
[21:50] <jutnux> Tor would be made illegal, also.
[21:50] <paln> Tor?
[21:50] <paln> zleap: also true
[21:50] <jutnux> .onion
[21:51] <jutnux> privacy services
[21:51] <zleap> but they are talking about changing some of the ways the internet works,  underlying protocols are affected,
[21:51] <paln> the pirate bay would definitely be shut down somewhere along the line
[21:51] <zleap> blacklisting whole domains
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> jutnux: The Onion would be illegal? STOP THIS LAW
[21:51] <MartijnVdS> P
[21:51] <DJones> paln: If they're uploading them legally and with a licence, they won't have a problem
[21:51] <paln> and then where would my installation of Windows 7 be?
[21:51] <monsterwizard> prate bay is in sweden though?
[21:51] <zleap> i t hought it moved to egypt
[21:51] <paln> DJones: but downloading a the problem
[21:51] <jutnux> paln: They can't shut down TPB. They could block the dns' of it though.
[21:52] <paln> do the users have a licence? no? that's piracy
[21:52] <zleap> but will it stop people downloading
[21:52] <monsterwizard> depends on what crypto technologies are developed
[21:52] <zleap> why do people download stuff illigally,  cost of movies on dvd,  they want to download stuff,   or they think its on the net there for its there for the taking freely
[21:53] <jutnux> I am not paying £15 for a DVD.
[21:53] <paln> zleap: people think they have rights in some cases
[21:53] <paln> jutnux: haha
[21:53] <zleap> jutnux, nor me,  i wait till they are on cheap
[21:54] <paln> £20 for te Harry Potter box Set
[21:54] <zleap> that is 7 or 8 dvds though
[21:54] <monsterwizard> in the UK oit wont be ilegal
[21:54] <paln> exactly
[21:54] <monsterwizard> ont*
[21:54] <monsterwizard> yet!
[21:54] <paln> monsterwizard: it will
[21:54] <zleap> but if they close domains downit will affect us
[21:54] <paln> soon enough
[21:54] <zleap> then they will push for the same laws in the EU
[21:54] <monsterwizard> there should be riots in the streets over this
[21:55] <paln> zleap: exactly
[21:55] <zleap> thinking aside,  HAS making some drugs class A and illigal stopped the drugs trade
[21:55] <paln> monsterwizard: riots in the cloud are already occurring
[21:55] <zleap> has making child porn illigal stopped kids being abuse
[21:55] <zleap> answer to both is NO
[21:55] <paln> we need to leave heaven and literally rain on their parade from the cloud
[21:55] <monsterwizard> yes but I dont want to go to prison :P
[21:56] <monsterwizard> or doing something that could send me to prison
[21:56] <zleap> as i said earlier tried to report someone locally sellingpiracted dvds and failed  to even talk to anyone remotely interested in even giving advice
[21:56] <paln> monsterwizard: like I said earlier people think they have rights
[21:57] <monsterwizard> lol
[21:57] <zleap> paln,  exactly so people need to be educated
[21:57] <paln> in the case of Aragon riots, we can't :'(
[21:57] <paln> but protests are legal
[21:57] <MartijnVdS> .. for now
[21:57] <paln> *staging = Aragon
[21:57] <zleap> ok
[21:57] <monsterwizard> Are you using any services or prooducts from companies supporting this?
[21:57] <monsterwizard> Microsoft seems to support it
[21:58] <paln> monsterwizard: There's my windows partition going bye bye
[21:58] <zleap> actually Microsoft have not directly supported it,   but they are part of a group that does (aparently) so they do indirectly
[21:58] <monsterwizard> I'm using windows right now!
[21:58] <monsterwizard> how are they going to enforce this law?
[21:58] <monsterwizard> I mean, so much resources would be needed
[21:59] <monsterwizard> It'll have to take resources away from 'real crime'
[21:59] <paln> through direct banning and/or blocking of certain URLs
[21:59] <monsterwizard> time to write down Ips :P
[21:59] <zleap> the movie industry has billions from charging high prices for movies
[21:59] <paln> and possibly more bots monitoring online activity
[21:59] <monsterwizard> no way?
[21:59] <monsterwizard> seriously?
[21:59] <monsterwizard> bots?
[22:00] <paln> monsterwizard: anything to get their message through to us
[22:00] <zleap> i don't think any laws will stop piracy,  what is needed is to make things cost a reasonable amount,  like with music oneof the reasons given is that people object to music companies getting a huge cut and the artist gets less
[22:00] <paln> so I say we do anything to get ours through to them
[22:00] <jutnux> They'd just force ISPs to block certain websites I believe.
[22:01] <zleap> why not have a system like with the humble bundle you choose how much to pay and how that money is split
[22:01] <paln> jutnux: maybe
[22:01] <paln> that's not the not efficient way though
[22:01] <paln> proxies
[22:02] <paln> zleap: but that would affect the local economy
[22:02] <DJones> zleap: Using the humble bundle argument though, does that mean I could into a Mercedes dealership, say I'll have that car but I only think its worth £2,500
[22:02] <zleap> i mean for movies etc
[22:02] <monsterwizard> tbh I didn't know how serious sopa is
[22:02] <paln> DJones: regarding digital media
[22:02] <monsterwizard> I never pay close attention to poltics
[22:03] <monsterwizard> I feel like a right douche
[22:03] <MartijnVdS> !politics
[22:03] <paln> lubotu3: haha
[22:03] <DJones> Shouldn't the manufacturer/developer be allowed to set the price they feel is right, if people don't want to pay it, they don't have the product
[22:03] <paln> I got a message from lubotu3 saying it doesn't know anything about haha
[22:03] <zleap> DJones, yes
[22:04] <zleap> but they do and people pirate stuff,  rather than not buy it
[22:04] <paln> DJones: they are ATM
[22:04] <paln> that's what causes problems
[22:04] <zleap> so they make it harder for people to copy movies which for us linux users makes it harder to watch movies due to getting codecs legally
[22:04] <zleap> why u think the codecs for dvdf playback are in extras
[22:05] <paln> legal reasons, duh
[22:05] <paln> some countries don't have legislation for those specific codec
[22:05] <zleap> paln,  yes but it makes life harder for people like us to go out and buy movies legally
[22:05] <paln> H264 is disallowed in northern Punjab afaik
[22:06] <paln> zleap: true
[22:06] <DJones> Thats the point though, if you're not willing to pay the set price, you shouldn't steal it, just because its a download rather than breaking a shop window and pinching something isn't any different
[22:06] <zleap> yeah
[22:06] <paln> that's the thing with closed source and proprietary software. you know you're paying for it for a reason. and ATM that reason seems to be legal reasons
[22:06] <zleap> actually we had a discssion onthis at a lug meet a few years ago
[22:07] <zleap> if i break in to your house and steal something I am removing a physical device or object
[22:07] <zleap> if I download something all I am doingis copying 0s and1's across a network,  and creating a duplicate
[22:07] <paln> whereas digital downloads are simply copies
[22:07] <zleap> paln, yes
[22:07] <paln> I know a great little video regarding this topic
[22:08] <zleap> so is it stealing in the same sense or perhaps taking something without making payment
[22:08] <zleap> so on a technical level its harder to define,  are you actually stealing in the same sense
[22:09] <DJones> I've got artwork which is a limited edition copy, 1 of 500 etc, at the end of the day, just because its a copy doesn't mean the rights holder shouldn't be paid
[22:09] <paln> http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=GB#/home
[22:09] <Nafallo> how can I possibly steal something if it's still there when I've left? ;-)
[22:09] <zleap> Nafallo, exactly
[22:09] <zleap> they are using old definitions in a modern digital world
[22:09] <zleap> and its not working
[22:09] <paln> sorry, doesn't work
[22:10] <zleap> so they need to change the definition,  how is hard to work out
[22:10] <Nafallo> for a movie, it would be illegal to make a copy, I would imagine.
[22:11] <Nafallo> but then, most crews doesn't make copies, they change it, downsize it, convert it :-)
[22:11] <Nafallo> so I wouldn't call that a copy.
[22:11] <zleap> well we used to have a fair useage claus,  e.g you can copy cd to tape for personal use (back when we had tape players in cars)
[22:12] <paln> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6vgkDbMcZc
[22:12] <zleap> but they stopped that and I think have gone back to it now so you can rip a cd to mp3 for use on a personal music player or int he car
[22:12] <Nafallo> rip a cd to files would make more sense.
[22:12] <Nafallo> maybe I'd rather have FLACs than MP3s
[22:13] <Nafallo> and that's still not a copy :-)
[22:13] <zleap> Nafallo, well rip to files then but you got my point
[22:13] <Nafallo> yeah, sure.
[22:13] <zleap> what i mean was its a fair usage personal use, use on your personal kit,  you bought the original cd legit,
[22:14] <Nafallo> not that I would ever buy a CD, but indeed. that's the point.
[22:14] <paln> check this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=s6vgkDbMcZc
[22:14]  * MartijnVdS buys CDs all the time
[22:14] <MartijnVdS> I have over 500 :)
[22:14] <zleap> i am watching tjhe mars bar one atm
[22:15] <paln> zleap: same one
[22:15] <paln> thought it didn't show up
[22:15] <zleap> MartijnVdS, so you should be able to copy to mp3 or whatever andlisten on the move
[22:15] <MartijnVdS> zleap: and I can (yay Dutch laws)
[22:15] <zleap> however it is when you pass those files to me,   you are basically breaking the law as I am not paying for it
[22:15] <zleap> as i said they stopped it here, then I think have gone back on it
[22:15] <MartijnVdS> zleap: there's a "tax" on blank media and MP3 players to cover that
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> the people who collect it are corrupt as heck
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> but they're fixing that
[22:16] <MartijnVdS> (well, politicians are.. so it might take a while)
[22:16] <zleap> yeah
[22:17] <zleap> so how do you stop people downloading music and not paying for it ?
[22:17] <zleap> or films or anything
[22:17] <MartijnVdS> http://torrentfreak.com/copyright-corruption-scandal-surrounds-anti-piracy-campaign-111201/
[22:17] <Nafallo> zleap: you don't :-)
[22:17] <MartijnVdS> we don't
[22:17] <MartijnVdS> downloading is legal, uploading isn't :)
[22:17] <MartijnVdS> (except software, that's illegal to download too)
[22:18] <Nafallo> MartijnVdS: hrm. so... how does that work? it's illegal to download a cracked program, but it's okay to download a trial version and apply a crack? :-P
[22:18] <zleap> i installed windows a while back,  failed to notifce the bottom box saying country so it said USA, it installed then said my copy could be counterfiet
[22:19] <zleap> with a cracked version you lose out on things like updates etc,   so you pay a small price i guess
[22:19] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: no
[22:19] <Nafallo> zleap: not on everything :-)
[22:19] <zleap> on somethings then
[22:19] <MartijnVdS> Nafallo: the "tax" on blank media is just for music and video, not software
[22:20] <zleap> ah
[22:20] <zleap> well 4.99 for 50 cd's still isn't bad
[22:20] <MartijnVdS> zleap: empty ones or what
[22:20] <zleap> blank
[22:20] <MartijnVdS> yes that
[22:20] <zleap> ideal for creating lots of ubuntu cds
[22:21] <zleap> dvds good for creating lots of copies of the open disc
[22:21] <zleap> of course you then have to convince people that its a) legal and b) really does mean free
[22:21] <zleap> an c) its good software
[22:21] <mgdm> I didn't realise the Raspberry Pi had Model A and Model B versions... heh heh
[22:21] <zleap> yah
[22:22] <zleap> latter has a network port i think
[22:22] <DJones> zleap: Yep, thats the differnece from what I read earlier
[22:23] <DJones> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439
[22:23] <zleap> i posted that to google+
[22:24] <DJones> Hadn't seen your G+ post, but I saw that bbc article earlier
[22:24] <zleap> np
[22:25] <zleap> lets hope they find people who can teach programming
[22:25]  * MartijnVdS discovered sugru through one of rasperry pi's blogposts :)
[22:26] <zleap> it is interesting when you post to google+ or facebook the link gives a small preview of the linked page,   could this in theory fall foul of SOPA  and people get accued of copy right infringement
[22:28] <DJones> zleap: Using a cracked version of windows.... Isn't that slightly insane, I've seen similar comments about copying news articles onto messageboards, there wasn;t a problem as long as the source was credited properly
[22:28] <DJones> Stupid paste buffer
[22:28] <DJones> zleap: Ignore that first bit
[22:29] <DJones> I think the way round that is that by having the link, you're giving credit to the original source, I've seen similar comments about copying news articles onto messageboards, there wasn't a problem as long as the source was credited properly