[01:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- amurray, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4560 UNAPPROVED queue
[11:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sil2100, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4554 Ready to build (focal/python3.10). Security pocket (focal/python3-stdlib-extensions, focal/python3.9)
[19:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiodj, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4559 Diff missing (impish/openldap, impish/wine). Uploading build (impish/wine-development)
[20:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiodj, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4559 Diff missing (impish/openldap). Pending binary packages (impish/wine, impish/wine-development)
[20:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- sergiodj, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4559 Diff missing


[01:25] <MraMaria> ~$ sudo dpkg -i synergy-1.4.14-Linux-x86_64.deb ... // ~$sudo apt-get remove synergy ... The following packages will be REMOVED: // synergy // 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded. // After this operation, 23.1 GB disk space will be freed.
[01:26] <MraMaria> Y and only removed synergy
[01:26] <MraMaria> Just a note regarding that... on 13.10 installed an hr or so ago on a 64 bit machine
[01:29] <MraMaria> sudo apt-get install synergy
[01:29] <MraMaria> oops, wrong machine
[01:30] <MraMaria> that's why i need only 1 kb :p
[01:53] <rostam> HI where could I get info on creating kickstart via usb? thx   I have done it for DVD (kickstart via DVD), now I want to change the media to usb. PLEASE HELP Thx
[06:18] <wagonboi> If I add a dedicated ip to my vps, is it still accessible through my old shared Ip, or only through my new dedicated IP?
[07:18] <andol> wagonboi: How are we suppose to be ableto answer that, without knowing the particular network setup related to your VPS environment? Also, wouldn't the original ip of the vps also be a dedicated one?
[17:20] <ankrj>  I'm new to the Ubuntu Server comunity. I wanted to know what all I can catch up/read up on apart from the stuff in Ubuntu Wiki?
[17:50] <ankrj> Hello Everyone, I'm new to the Ubuntu Server comunity. I wanted to know what all I can catch up/read up on apart from the stuff in Ubuntu Wiki?
[17:50] <MavKen> do you need postfix for sendmail to work?
[17:50] <MavKen> ankrj, do you have vps hosting or just using a home server?
[18:00] <ankrj> Hello MavKen, I do not use either. I could setup a Home Server.
[18:01] <ankrj> I guess I should rephrase my question, what more should I know to effectively contribute to the project (apart from the Ubuntu Contribute Wiki)?
[18:02] <ersi> Good question. Do you have any special interests or areas of expertise (or areas you want to improve either Ubuntu or yourself in)?
[18:02] <ersi> You might want to sign up to our mailing list, it's not very high volume.
[18:03] <MavKen> if you want a good setup to learn, i recommend digitalocean.com $5/month for root access and there are several versions of ubuntu server you can use
[18:03] <MavKen> im new to the server side of things, but there are millions of tutorials for anything you want to do out there
[18:04] <MavKen> i cant get sendmail working for some reason
[18:05] <ankrj> OK Ersi, thanks for the suggestion. I'll start with the mailing list. I am a Network Engineer by profession, I have fair knowledge of Python and C++,would these skills be helpful?
[18:05] <rbasak> ankrj: the server guide is always looking for contributions.
[18:06] <ankrj> Mavken thanks for your suggestions as well. I wont be looking into a paid solution as of now, will srely look into setting up a Home Server and start from there
[18:06] <ankrj> Rbasak, are you referring to the documentation?
[18:06] <MavKen> cool... I had home server before till my ISP disconnected me
[18:06] <ankrj> ok, thats sad!
[18:07] <ersi> ankrj: Yeah, Python and C++ are totally valuable skills!
[18:07] <ankrj> Ersi, Rbasak, if I do get in touch Ubuntu-Server guys for Mentorship
[18:07] <ankrj> what kind of tasks will I get?
[18:08] <ersi> ankrj: There's quite many Python-sourced scripts and programs by the way
[18:08] <ankrj> OK!
[18:08] <ersi> I don't know about the mentorships, unfortunately.
[18:09] <ankrj> oh, ok
[18:09] <ersi> There's also the ubuntu-server group on launchpad.net (which is canonical and ubuntus development platform) by the way :-)
[18:09] <ersi> But getting a mentor might be a good idea to get up to speed with things
[18:11] <ankrj> OK, will look into that! Just wanted to know what kind of tasks are involved and the time that we need to put in during mentorship - as I'm working full time and my python/C++ skills are kinda beginner/amatuer level?
[18:11] <rbasak> ankrj: https://help.ubuntu.com/13.10/serverguide/
[18:12] <ankrj> Rbasak, looking at it now :)
[18:12] <ankrj> Anyone who does Bug Triage here?
[18:12] <ersi> ankrj: I think the tasks might be quite tailored to what you would like to help with.
[18:12] <TheLordOfTime> ankrj, i'm a bug triager
[18:12] <TheLordOfTime> sup?
[18:12] <TheLordOfTime> (bugsquad + bugcontrol)
[18:13] <ankrj> Mind if I call you TLOT?
[18:13] <TheLordOfTime> nope
[18:13] <rbasak> ankrj: I suggest that you pick an area that you'd like to see improved. It's easier to get help on a specific goal since it's pretty hard to set you a task that matches your skill and experience.
[18:13] <ankrj> Sure, OK
[18:14] <ankrj> So tlot, after the reading the Bug Squad + Ubuntu server Bug Traige guide, is it basically dive in directly to triage bugs?
[18:15] <ankrj> Or anything that I need to know?
[18:18] <rbasak> ankrj: go ahead and dive in. If you can get bugs to the stage where they are confirmed, detailed steps to reproduce and developers would agree that it's a bug and needs to be fixed in Ubuntu, then that would be really helpful. There are more bugs pending triaging than we can manage right now unfortunately.
[18:22] <TheLordOfTime> aww he timed out
[18:22] <TheLordOfTime> oh well, i was making money anyways, selling off some bitcoins :P
[18:22] <TheLordOfTime> rbasak, yeah, that's a good explanation for triaging.  :)
[18:23] <TheLordOfTime> rbasak, bugsquad typically also suggests to get involved in packages/programs you know enough about to be able to test/confirm things, because a lot of bugs out there have really obscure replication steps...
[18:23] <TheLordOfTime> but if you know said package pretty well, you can probably replicate those things :
[18:23] <TheLordOfTime> :)
[18:31] <MavKen> how can i prevent my sendmail from going directly to spam folder on gmail?
[23:02] <MavKen> is there a way to automatically have a 'user.com' added to the sites-available folder each time i add a user?  I have the doc root as /home/user/www/public_html/


[00:55] <veebers> Hi all, would anyone be able to take a look at this bug?: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1085767
[00:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1085767 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installer boot halts and hangs (netboot + nfs)" [Undecided,New]
[01:24] <veebers> or at least what/if there is any other details that I can provide to make it more useful?
[09:34] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I may find the root cause of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2-signed/+bug/1087653 .
[09:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1087653 in OEM Priority Project "grub2-signed doesn't support removable drive." [High,New]
[09:35] <FourDollars> cjwatson: grub2-signed will only read (hd1,msdos1)/EFI/ubuntu/grub.cfg but not (hd1,msdos1)/EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg .
[09:36] <cjwatson> FourDollars: grubx64.efi reads from /EFI/ubuntu/; gcdx64.efi reads from /EFI/BOOT/
[09:36] <cjwatson> they're intentionally configured differently per the UEFI specification
[09:36] <cjwatson> so grub-install --removable probably needs to remember to use gcdx64.efi
[09:36] <cjwatson> I've reassigned the bug to grub2 accordingly
[09:38] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Yes. That is why `grub-install --removable` doesn't work for me.
[09:38] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I finally understand the difference between gcdx64.efi and grubx64.efi.
[09:39] <cjwatson> there are a couple of other differences in the module set available, but they aren't relevant here
[09:43] <FourDollars> cjwatson: BTW, `grub-install --removable` of precise-proposed will not create /EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg automatically. Is it normal?
[09:45] <cjwatson> You're the first person to test --removable on UEFI SB
[09:45] <cjwatson> So in general it's not a surprise (and not a regression) if it's broken
[09:45] <FourDollars> I know. Because I need this function. XD
[09:46] <cjwatson> Sure, just saying, expect it to be broken right now because nobody has previously cared
[09:46] <FourDollars> Do you remember I have asked the same question in one UDS seesion?
[09:47] <cjwatson> I'm afraid I have trouble remembering everything from UDS, sorry - I'm not saying I won't fix it, just that asking "is it normal" doesn't make sense
[09:48] <FourDollars> Not mind.
[09:48] <cjwatson> Ah, now, I do see a mistake in my backport here
[09:54] <cjwatson> Which could be the cause of stgraber's trouble as well
[09:59] <cjwatson> FourDollars: Try applying http://paste.ubuntu.com/1422879/ to /usr/sbin/grub-install
[10:01] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Will grubx64.efi read /EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg ? I just put a /EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg and it doesn't work.
[10:01] <cjwatson> No, it will not
[10:01] <cjwatson> But if you apply the patch I gave, grub-install will use gcdx64.efi instead
[10:02] <cjwatson> (with --removable)
[10:02] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I see.
[10:03] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Is http://paste.ubuntu.com/1422879/ used for grub2 of precise-proposed?
[10:04] <cjwatson> Yes
[10:04] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I have manually copied gcdx64.efi to /EFI/BOOT/grubx64.efi.
[10:05] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Will gcdx64.efi read any grub.cfg by default?
[10:07] <FourDollars> OK. Let me try you patch first.
[10:07] <FourDollars> s/you/your/
[10:11] <gema> xnox: ping
[10:11] <gema> xnox: bug 1087630 needs some attention, are you aware of it?
[10:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1087630 in ubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "server minimal virtual installations are bloated" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1087630
[10:12] <gema> xnox: if this not important, I'd like to know so that we can demote these tests out of smoke testing
[10:13] <xnox> gema: I have seen being pinged about this bug. But it's not for me to fix, it will probably need seed changes.
[10:13] <xnox> gema: I have a point to bring about smoke testing.
[10:13] <gema> xnox: so who should be fixing this?
[10:13] <gema> xnox: good, go ahead
[10:13] <infinity> Do was actually want to hard-cap the installation size so strictly?
[10:13] <xnox> gema: I would think server product owner would be the one interested in fixing this.
[10:13] <gema> infinity: I don't know, we were asked to add this last cycle, it may not be so important anymore?
[10:14] <xnox> gema: I think static analysis should not block other testing.
[10:14] <xnox> gema: e.g. I have noticed that Wubi check was removed from iso static pre-test, because on initial raring images wubi was not present yet.
[10:14] <infinity> Bah, and cdimage has already dropped the old manifests, I wanted to see if it was new packages being added, or just packages growing.
[10:14] <gema> xnox: this one in particular is not static analysis
[10:15] <xnox> gema: the wubi check then blocked testing of downstream projects.
[10:15] <xnox> gema: does the server minimal install test block downstream testing of i386 server?
[10:15] <gema> xnox: yes, because we run static analysis on the default job that kicks everything else
[10:15] <infinity> Ahh, the buildd has a few more.  Handy.
[10:15] <gema> xnox: nope, this is a job that kicks of on a minimal VM and ubuntu doesn't really fit, it is a minimal configuration type of test
[10:16] <xnox> gema: which is not fully correct, since the server cdimage is good, does complete the install, abeit oversized.
[10:16] <cjwatson> FourDollars: With my patch, grub-install --removable should create /EFI/BOOT/grub.cfg and gcdx64.efi should read it.  Please don't copy anything else around manually - you will just make it harder to diagnose your system.
[10:16] <xnox> gema: ah, ok then.
[10:16] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Roger that.
[10:16] <gema> xnox: ok, so we may need the release team's help defining what is smoke and that is not, and what are blocking factors for downstream testing
[10:16] <cjwatson> gema: This is absolutely a matter for the server team
[10:16] <gema> cjwatson: ack, will talk to them
[10:17] <xnox> gema: from a developers perspective (/me is not release team) I want to attempt as many tests as possible & see the output from as many as possible.
[10:17] <cjwatson> While we can help with matters that turn out to be installer bugs, IIRC last time I investigated most of this was not
[10:17] <cjwatson> And the question of what limits should exist on a product is up to the product team in question
[10:17] <gema> cjwatson: understood
[10:18] <cjwatson> But yeah, I agree with xnox, this isn't an "image is hosed, don't try anything more" issue
[10:18] <infinity> gema: As for what's on the CD, (literally) nothing changed in the window the bug refers to.
[10:18] <cjwatson> There was an old bug on this which I don't think has been closed
[10:18] <cjwatson> So it's probably a dup
[10:18] <xnox> gema: I am ok seeing that for example 8 tests against server ISO have "total install size fail", yet it still boots & installs in all 8 server test cases (for example)
[10:19] <cjwatson> Ah, one of the two old bugs was wontfixed
[10:19] <infinity> 64309655a78512e0ed4f2533dcc2ade0  livecd.ubuntu-server-20121208-amd64.manifest
[10:19] <gema> xnox: I think we need to explain what smoke is actually testing and then have a discussion on what are the blocking factores
[10:19] <infinity> 64309655a78512e0ed4f2533dcc2ade0  livecd.ubuntu-server-20121209-amd64.manifest
[10:19] <cjwatson> gema: bug 1028453, bug 1053770
[10:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1028453 in livecd-rootfs (Ubuntu) "Quantal Ubuntu Server minimal install oversized" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1028453
[10:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1053770 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu Quantal) "ubuntu-server install takes up too much space" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1053770
[10:19] <cjwatson> ^- history
[10:19] <xnox> gema: yeah.
[10:19] <infinity> gema: ^-- The package set on the CDs was actually identical between the two stated dates.
[10:20] <infinity> gema: So, whatever broke was post-install (in the server tasks, I'd assume)
[10:20] <infinity> gema: ie: retrying the test with 20121208 should show the same issue, so clearly not the ISO's fault.
[10:21] <infinity> gema: I thought the original stated go/no-go smoke-test was going to be just "boot/install/reboot", nothing fancy.
[10:21] <gema> infinity: that's what it will be, this is smoke testing post publishing the images
[10:21] <xnox> infinity: jenkins tells me 20121206 was the last good, and we started to be over the size since then.
[10:21] <xnox> infinity: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/Smoke%20Testing/job/raring-server-i386-smoke-minimal-virtual/buildTimeTrend
[10:22] <infinity> gema: Oh, if this is post-publish, that's different.  xnox implied this was a "stop-ship" somehow.
[10:22] <gema> infinity: nah, we are not doing the stop-ship one yet
[10:22] <gema> infinity: we agreed we'd do that after Xmas
[10:22] <infinity> xnox: I'm looking at amd64, not i386.
[10:22] <infinity> gema: Right, hence my confusion, though.  I don't actually care what tests are run (the more, the merrier) for post-ship regression testing.
[10:22] <gema> infinity: I think xnox means that if static validation doesn't pass, the way we have configured the jobs right now, no other jobs will run
[10:23] <gema> infinity: and he doesn't know if everything else works
[10:23] <infinity> gema: It's a matter of finding the right people who care about the tests (so, yes, the server team for install size)
[10:23] <xnox> infinity: amd64 was also 20121206 last good.
[10:23] <gema> cool
[10:23] <infinity> gema: Ahh, yeah.  Having jobs block other jobs is unclever (unless the blocking job is "this hoses your whole VM so nothing else can run")
[10:23] <infinity> xnox: Then the bug lies. :P
[10:24] <cjwatson> I remember earlier versions of this bug as being annoying with the rls-mgr reports.qa pages
[10:24] <infinity> xnox: Even then, the only changes in the manifest are a version bump of libglib2.0-0 and sed.
[10:24] <xnox> infinity: well amd64 has no jenkins test results for 07,08 (probably not triggered due to dependency =( )
[10:24] <cjwatson> Because ubuntu-meta was assigned to foundations by default (which isn't unreasonable), but there didn't seem to be a way for us to say "er, no, this is a server team thing"
[10:24] <cjwatson> Short of an artificial and probably wrong package reassignment
[10:25] <infinity> Assigning bugs works. :P
[10:25] <cjwatson> It didn't use to
[10:25] <cjwatson> I mean, you saw the assignee, but it was still in the foundations section
[10:25] <infinity> Right, that's a fundamental issue with the scrapey bot, though.
[10:26] <infinity> I'm not sure asking people to misuse Malone to work around the scraper is the right approach.
[10:26] <cjwatson> Well, indeed, that's what I'm saying
[10:26] <cjwatson> It was annoying because the scraper results were in general useful and people were looking at them, but we had to keep saying "no, that one isn't our bug, stop nagging us about it"
[10:27] <cjwatson> And I suspect the server team kept forgetting about it because it wasn't in their section
[10:27] <infinity> Anyhow.  The insatiably curious guy in me kinda wants to know why the install size went up.
[10:27] <infinity> The rest of me doesn't care and, yes, it's a server team issue. :P
[10:27]  * gema goes talk to the server guys
[10:27] <xnox> Daviey: how big should the server install size should be?
[10:27] <xnox> ^^^^
[10:27] <xnox> gema: no need to go =) Daviey idles here ;-)
[10:28] <infinity> gema: Now, on the other hand, if the install size of ALL images goes up dramatically in the same window, that's likely something we (foundations/installer/cdimage/something) might care to have a quick glance at.
[10:28] <infinity> gema: Not something to fail on, per se, but something we can tick off as a "yeah, we meant to do that".
[10:28] <xnox> gema: do we have statistics on the offline desktop install size?
[10:29] <xnox> or e.g. size of core.
[10:29] <gema> xnox: no
[10:29] <gema> xnox: but we could gather them
[10:29] <xnox> (although core will probably not tell us much)
[10:29] <xnox> gema: that would be useful. E.g. jenkins plotted graph =)
[10:29] <gema> xnox: if you guys can define what kind of sizes you care about, we can have utah taking some measurements on every install
[10:30] <gema> Daviey: jamespage is on the case
[10:30] <xnox> gema: well it looks like in foundations we care more about the trends and up/down big jumps rather than X bytes.
[10:30] <Daviey> thanks
[10:31] <gema> xnox: I have been aiming to collect stats from installed images for a while, but I don't know what are the right indicators
[10:31] <gema> xnox: so if you could define them, we can start collecting them and start plotting them mid cycle or so?
[10:31] <gema> xnox: this would be queued after bootspeed and power consumption graphs :)
[10:32] <gema> xnox: but there's nothing stopping us from collecting the data already
[10:32] <xnox> gema: I see. Adding an item for me to file a bug with definitions that are stable and useful.
[10:32] <gema> xnox: thanks
[10:38] <gema> xnox: we will add another reporting area to smoke testing for trends and stick the graphs there
[10:39] <cjwatson> FourDollars: Any luck?  If it improves things it might be worth me uploading that to precise-proposed ...
[10:40] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Not yet. I just generate the Debian packages.
[10:49] <cjwatson> FourDollars: Oh, my patch was one that you could just apply in place
[10:49] <cjwatson> Should be like 400 times faster
[10:49] <cjwatson> FourDollars: The correct patch for the packaging is a bit different since it would want to modify the patch system instead ...
[10:50] <cjwatson> 'sudo patch /usr/sbin/grub-install <the-patch-file'
[10:50] <FourDollars> cjwatson: It seems to use the (hd1,gpt2)/boot/grub/grub.cfg on HDD but not (hd1,msdos1)/boot/grub/grub.cfg on USB drive.
[10:50] <cjwatson> At this point it is not at all clear to me what you've done because you apparently aren't following my directions ...
[10:51] <cjwatson> So I'll have to ask you for full debug logs at every step
[10:51] <FourDollars> cjwatson: I use quilt to add your patch on grub2/precise-proposed.
[10:51] <cjwatson> That wasn't what I asked you to do
[10:52] <cjwatson> (debug logs: add the --debug option to grub-install, post result on paste.ubuntu.com)
[10:52] <FourDollars> OK. Let me try.
[10:53] <cjwatson> I appreciate your testing effort but you really need to follow my directions to the letter; remember that from my point of view I am trying to come up with a mental model of what your computer is doing by asking you to do specific things to it, and when you do different things from what I asked it makes it harder for me to come up with that model
[10:53] <FourDollars> Roger that.
[10:55] <FourDollars> cjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1422959/
[10:57] <cjwatson> FourDollars: could I also have the full command line you used there, please?
[10:57] <cjwatson> just to make sure
[10:58] <FourDollars> cjwatson: sudo grub-install --debug --removable --uefi-secure-boot --root-directory /media/UsbStick /dev/sdb1
[10:59] <cjwatson> So I *think* that using --root-directory is wrong
[10:59] <cjwatson> But I'm investigating
[11:00] <FourDollars> :)
[11:01] <cjwatson> Hmm, maybe that's a red herring
[11:02] <cjwatson> Oh, hmm, I see.  So one of the problems with signed UEFI images is that there's no way to stuff a bootstrap configuration file into them, because that would be inside the signed region
[11:02] <cjwatson> Which means that they have to work everything out from context at boot time
[11:03] <cjwatson> The way that gcdx64.efi does this is to assume that it's on an Ubuntu installation image, and to look for a device that has /.disk/info on it
[11:03] <cjwatson> (Contents don't matter)
[11:03] <FourDollars> `mkdir /.disk && touch /.disk/info`?
[11:04] <cjwatson> Right, that's a necessary step, at least for now.  However, there's one other thing I'm wondering about
[11:04] <FourDollars> Let me try.
[11:04] <cjwatson> At the moment, do either /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/grub.cfg or /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/x86_64-efi/grub.cfg exist?
[11:06] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Only /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/grub.cfg that I copied from my own system.
[11:07] <cjwatson> Hmm
[11:07] <cjwatson> So that's a problem too - let me try to work this out
[11:07] <FourDollars> cjwatson: After I touch .disk/info, it is back to the initial state of that bug. It can not show GRUB menu.
[11:08] <cjwatson> Sure, because (as I was trying to say) the embedded config file sources /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/grub.cfg
[11:08] <FourDollars> Oh~ I see.
[11:08] <cjwatson> I'm not sure this is the right answer, but just as a test, could you please create /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/x86_64-efi/grub.cfg with these contents:
[11:09] <cjwatson> source $prefix/grub.cfg
[11:09] <FourDollars> OK. Let me try it.
[11:11] <cjwatson> (This may actually be leakage from the different /boot/grub/ arrangement in 2.00 that I failed to correct when backporting all this to 1.99, hence my comment that it may not really be the right answer)
[11:11] <FourDollars> cjwatson: Yes. It works but the GRUB menu looks weird.
[11:13] <cjwatson> Progress
[11:15] <FourDollars> It looks like https://plus.google.com/111702816719386284707/posts/WDVNeumLwGP
[11:16] <cjwatson> OK, that's either a missing font or a missing locale
[11:18] <xnox> do you have /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/unicode.pf2 ?
[11:18] <FourDollars> OK, that should be fine because the grub.cfg is copied directly from my system.
[11:19] <cjwatson> Yeah, you need to copy unicode.pf2 in.  In 1.99, this was handled only by the package postinst
[11:19] <xnox> (or is it /boot/grub/fonts/unicode.pf2 i have it in both locations on my system....)
[11:19] <cjwatson> You should find it in /usr/share/grub/
[11:19] <cjwatson> xnox: /boot/grub/unicode.pf2 in 1.99
[11:19] <xnox> ack.
[11:20] <cjwatson> So the grub.cfg copied from your system is probably making assumptions about the path to the font which don't hold when it's running with a different $root/$prefix
[11:20] <FourDollars> I think so.
[11:22] <FourDollars> I works now after I copy /usr/share/grub/unicode.pf2 into /media/UsbStick/boot/grub and modify /media/UsbStick/boot/grub/grub.cfg .
[11:22] <cjwatson> Excellent
[11:22] <cjwatson> So, going back to the /boot/grub/x86_64-efi/grub.cfg thing - that path is in fact used by installer images, which are the most important use case for gcdx64.efi
[11:23] <cjwatson> What I can do, though (it'll take a new grub2-signed upload to precise, but not otherwise hard), is to have gcdx64.efi try to read $prefix/x86_64-efi/grub.cfg and fall back to $prefix/grub.cfg if it's missing
[11:25] <FourDollars> Good. :)
[11:26]  * FourDollars looks forward the new grub2 in precise-proposed. :P
[11:29] <cjwatson> Preparing it now
[11:30]  * FourDollars is away from keyboard.
[11:31] <cjwatson> Thanks for the testing work
[11:34] <cjwatson> Uploaded to precise-proposed, pending SRU team review
[12:01] <FourDollars> np. I am glad to help.
[12:34] <psivaa> xnox: cjwatson: is there any update about the fix for bug 1080701
[12:34] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1080701
[12:34] <psivaa> iirc xnox was going to look into that :)
[12:36] <xnox> psivaa: no update yet. Didn't get to it yet. Reached EOD on friday, but will look into it today.
[12:37] <psivaa> xnox: ok,  thank you
[15:18] <infinity> cjwatson: Does ubiquity explicity (re)install the kernel, despite it already existing in the live image?
[15:18] <infinity> cjwatson: Seems to be set to auto in the squashfs, but after a fresh install, it's manual, so I'm assuming yes.
[15:20] <xnox> infinity: yes.
[15:20] <xnox> infinity: we also run update-initramfs to rebuild initramfs.
[15:20] <infinity> Yes, the latter is perfectly fine.
[15:21] <infinity>             if name.startswith('linux-image-2.'):
[15:21] <xnox> infinity: what abut the former? cause trouble with kernel auto removal?
[15:21] <infinity> ^-- That's not outdated code...
[15:21] <cjwatson> scripts/check-kernels is more relevant
[15:22] <cjwatson> Heh, yeah, might be worth fixing traverse_for_kernel
[15:23] <cjwatson> So I think perhaps scripts/check-kernel should just append to /var/lib/ubiquity/apt-installed for already-installed kernels rather than doing the full apt-install thing
[15:23] <cjwatson> In general I think apt-install is right to do an explicit apt-get install, because other things it's asked for might be vulnerable to autoremoval otherwise
[15:24] <cjwatson> But it obviously doesn't make sense for individual kernel packages
[15:24] <cjwatson> We should just make sure that the top-level metapackages aren't autoremoved
[15:25] <infinity> Yeah.  The whole traversal thing here feels wrong.
[15:25] <infinity> I can't sort out WHY it would want to drill down and install the "real" package instead of the meta.
[15:25] <infinity> Though there must have been a reason.
[17:00] <xnox> psivaa: i think i can now reproduce the hang.
[17:09] <psivaa> xnox: thanks, that's good :)
[17:09] <xnox> psivaa: yeah...


[03:50] <j1mc> hi all.  would it be a good idea to upload the current xubuntu hardy branch to launchpad under the xubuntu doc team, so that we could allow xubunteros to submit their own patches w/o needing committer rights?
[03:50] <j1mc> (committer rights to the core docs, that is . . . )
[04:28] <Kr0ntab> greets folks..
[04:29] <Madpilot> mrh?
[04:29] <Kr0ntab> ?
[04:39] <Kr0ntab> added https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SinglePacketAuthorization today...
[04:39] <Kr0ntab> first doc..  w00t!
[13:07] <ubotu> New bug: #163188 in ubuntu-docs (main) "spelling and information issues " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163188
[15:52] <j1mc> hi all - i posted here last night about uploading the xubuntu docs to launchpad in a manner that would allow regular contributors (w/o commit access to the core docs) to still upload their changes.
[15:52] <j1mc> does that sound like a good idea?
[15:52] <j1mc> if so, .... um, how would i do it?  :)
[15:57] <nixternal> j1mc: did you get your commit rights yet?
[15:57] <j1mc> nixternal: no
[15:57] <nixternal> hrmm
[15:57] <j1mc> even if i do, though . . . does what i mentioned above sound like a good idea?
[15:57] <j1mc> i'm not sure if the extra layer of stuff is necessary, but maybe i don't see the advantages of it.
[15:58] <nixternal> j1mc: no...let those people create a branch of their own, and then you could merge their changes
[15:58] <nixternal> so they could work locally and still upload, but it wouldn't touch the main xubuntu-docs unless one of you merged it
[15:58] <j1mc> understood.
[15:59] <nixternal> unless of course, you trust the person and they are writing good code and validating it
[15:59] <j1mc> so i would just upload my own branch of xubuntu docs to my own launchpad page?  that kind of thing
[15:59] <j1mc> and then (for example) get them merged into the actual branch...
[15:59] <j1mc> (i'm at a coffee shop, and someone's bagel smells so good) hehe
[15:59] <nixternal> you can upload to the xubuntu-docs project, it would just be your own branch
[16:00] <nixternal> haha
[16:00] <nixternal> mm, bagel does sound good
[16:00] <j1mc> ok.  i think it'd be better to talk about this at a chi-ubuntu meeting.
[16:00] <j1mc> or maybe i should make it out to COD tomorrow.  (maybe)
[16:00] <nixternal> I have CDs :)
[16:01] <nixternal> the real ones this time
[16:01] <j1mc> haha.  i saw.
[16:01] <j1mc> cool.
[16:01] <j1mc> ok.  i'm going to submit another patch to the list in a few minutes.  need to validate it.
[16:02] <j1mc> paxola.
[16:02] <nixternal> hehe
[23:21] <j1mc> is anyone on here a moderator for the ubuntu-doc mailing list?  if so, i submitted a patch that was a little too big for the ML message size limits.  (~50kb)  it will need to be approved by a mod to go through.
[23:30] <nixternal> j1mc: got it
[23:30] <j1mc> thanks.


[17:10] <yofel> sorry Simon for not being around for the meeting on the 29th, I had forgotten to make an actual calendar note for it and forgot about it
[18:51] <acheronuk> tsimonq2: are you going to re-schedule now holidays are over?
 @acheronuk, Yes, I've been meaning to do that.
 @yofel, Np
[19:12] <acheronuk> yofel: BTW, hope you had a good xmas and new year :)
 Ducking out to cram for finals, I'll be back tomorrow afternoon or tomorrow, whenever :)


[12:38] <bradb> ok, sanity check: is trying to login to the wiki telling other people "Sorry, wrong password" too?
[01:11] <carlos> jordi, pong
[01:11] <jordi> carlos: way too late
[01:11] <jordi> I'm shutting down, I wanted to import a few things, with you watching.
[01:11] <jordi> tomorrow
[01:11] <carlos> jordi, sorry, I just come back from my parents' house
[01:12] <carlos> ok
[01:12] <carlos> see you tomorrow
[04:50] <spiv> jamesh: Around?
[04:51] <jamesh> spiv: yeah
[04:52] <spiv> jamesh: The pending-reviews output for lifeless' arch-pqm branch seems weird to me.
[04:53] <spiv> There are conflicts that remove entire files.
[04:53] <jamesh> I just registered his<EMAIL_ADDRESS>archive in my chinstrap home dir this morning
[04:54] <spiv> I just wanted a quick sanity check from you to know if it really does have crazy conflicts, or if you think something funny is going on.
[04:55] <jamesh> could be star-merge picking a bad ancestor
[04:56] <spiv> Well, pqm star-merges too.
[04:57] <jamesh> I'd ask lifeless, but he's on holiday
[04:57] <spiv> Right :)
[04:57] <bob2> hm, is there a reason bug activity isn't the default bug view?
[04:58] <jamesh> hmm
[04:58] <jamesh><EMAIL_ADDRESS>shows the last item is a merge from rocektfuel
[04:59] <jamesh> s/item/revision/
[04:59] <spiv> Which means it shouldn't have crazy conflicts, I would have though.
[05:01] <spiv> patch-7?
[05:01] <spiv> I see a patch-52 from here.
[05:01] <jamesh> --general
[05:01] <jamesh> his public archive
[05:02] <spiv> Ah, right.
[05:02] <spiv> There's two branches there.
[05:02] <spiv> I got confused :)
[05:03] <spiv> Ok, I have another question...
[05:03] <spiv> Ah, you removed the other one because it was already merged?
[05:04] <jamesh> spiv: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/lifeless-pqm.patch <- without --star-merge
[05:04] <jamesh> yeah
[05:04] <spiv> So it was a dud merge.  Ta.
[05:05] <jamesh> the type of dud merge PQM will have trouble with too
[05:06] <spiv> Yep.
[05:07] <spiv> But that's something lifeless can sort out, I only need to mention it in passing in a review.
[05:07] <jamesh> I wonder if lifeless just did a full rocketfuel merge to his public archive, or a selective one?
[05:07] <jamesh> (which might account for weird merging)
[05:10] <jamesh> bob2: you mean the "activity log" malone page?
[05:55] <jamesh> spiv: w.r.t. Mark's branches, I think the comment on PendingReviews says it all: "I'm not sure - I want the diff magic to show me!."
[05:55] <jamesh> he's not after a review yet -- just wants the stats page to track the diff, conflicts, etc for him
[05:55] <jamesh> maybe it should have been tagged doesn't-need-review-yet or somehting :)
[06:00] <spiv> jamesh: Well, he should have put it in his own queue then ;)
[06:06] <spiv> In theory that could be fixed.
[06:06] <jamesh> I noticed that the names got fixed while the wiki was in Brazil
[06:07] <jamesh> but the changes since the moin 1.3 upgrade were broken
[06:07] <spiv> So long as everyone has the same wiki name in Launchpad as in the old wiki, it would be possible to write a script to migrate the old IDs to the new ones.
[06:07] <jamesh> now its switched back, so the data should all be there
[06:07] <spiv> The problem is that in Brazil, we were using plain moin 1.3.  We're now back on Launchpad auth, which uses different user ids under the covers.
[06:10] <jamesh> well, it is a problem that will become less important as time goes on
[06:10] <spiv> Yeah.
[06:12] <spiv> If we keep running local wikis for sprints, it'll be a recurring issue though.
[06:12] <jamesh> I think this was just a one off
[06:12] <jamesh> it's a pain for the people not at the sprint
[06:12] <elmo> no, we'll do local wikis as most meetings
[06:12] <elmo> well meetings where everyone is there
[06:13] <elmo> and it's easily avoided, since AFAIK we'll allowed to do the LP auth from anywhere, so next time I just need to give the data and the moin packages
[06:14] <jamesh> with the way the Launchpad sprint was structured, only somewhere between a third and a half the team were in Brazil at any one time though
[06:14] <spiv> Well, it wouldn't be hard to run a local authserver for a local wiki.
[06:14] <jamesh> if the wiki was moved to Brazil but still accessible, it wouldn't have been too bad
[06:15] <jamesh> even if it was slower
[06:16] <spiv> (It'd be a variation what we're planning for AuthserverCaching)
[08:21] <yaniv> Hello all! I had just noticed that Gaim is listed four times in the Hebrew Translation part of Rosseta, and at a glance, all version seemed identical. Does someone know anything about this? Is this a mistake, and we are doubling our work, or is it supposed to be like this?
[08:26] <jamesh> yaniv: what URL are you looking at?
[08:27] <yaniv> jamesh:https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/he
[08:28] <jamesh> not sure.
[08:28] <yaniv> jamesh:if you search the page for gaim, you'll see it's list four times, (gaim-1, gaim-1 etc.) and the templates seem the same
[08:29] <jamesh> yeah.  if you click on the "source" column header they're all next to each other
[08:30] <jamesh> yaniv: the Rosetta guys should be waking up soon, so if you wait a bit you should get an answer
[08:30] <jamesh> they're on European time
[09:39] <sivang> jamesh: I have the bonobo helper lib ready, I will be sending it for your review soon
[09:40] <sivang> jamesh: I'm sure I have an handful of warths, make sure you let me know of them so I can fix *and* learn :)
[09:41] <sivang> jamesh: btw, must I use the autogen.sh script or make dist with it or can I drop it out of the tarball distribution?
[09:41] <jamesh> sivang: to get a tarball, you should run ./autogen.sh, then "make distcheck"
[09:43] <sivang> jamesh: ok, I'll do that shortly. up until now I just used "make dist" to move the tarball around between palces I worked in
[09:44] <jamesh> sivang: "make distcheck" makes a tarball, unpacks it and does a build, then tries to create a tarball from that copy
[09:44] <jamesh> it helps pick up bugs that'd bite you further down the track
[09:55] <sivang> jamesh: cool , thx for the info :)
[09:57] <sivang> jamesh: I alwasy do make clean and make dist clean before I reattempt building etc, is this ok?
[09:58] <jamesh> sivang: shouldn't be necessary
[09:58] <jamesh> sivang: "make distcheck" should give you a tarball suitable for building a package
[09:59] <sivang> jamesh: k, now, I get some autogen warnings. Should we continue this in a more appropriate channel (g-l, or g-h maybe? )
[10:00] <sivang> (feeling autotools stuff is getting bit OT for here)
[10:06] <SteveA> hi
[10:09] <jamesh> hi SteveA
[10:10] <SteveA> hello jamesh
[10:11] <SteveA> i want to get the schemas that are used only for browser stuff moved into the launchpad/browser/ package somewhere
[10:12] <SteveA> this is kind of linked to making the autogenerated calendar forms have more user-oriented description fields
[10:12] <jamesh> just schemas, or all interfaces that are browser specific?
[10:12] <jamesh> okay
[10:13] <SteveA> because we can put schemas in there that extend the schoolbel schemas, but with improved descriptions (improved from the end-user point of view)
[10:13] <SteveA> that's a good question.  i don't know if we have any browser-specific interfaces that are not schemas
[10:13] <jamesh> I have some for calendar date ranges
[10:14] <jamesh> the implementations are in browser/cal.py
[10:15] <SteveA> date ranges sound very generic to me.
[10:15] <jamesh> okay
[10:15] <SteveA> more "structural", if you see what i mean
[10:15] <SteveA> so i guess we can keep them in launchpad/interfaces/
[10:15] <SteveA> what do you thin?
[10:15] <SteveA> think?
[10:16] <jamesh> it sounds like a good idea
[10:16] <jamesh> since the schemas used for data entry are likely to be similar to the interfaces for the real database objects
[10:16] <jamesh> and we probably don't want them mixed up
[10:17] <SteveA> mark originally wanted them to be kept together, because of the "keep all interfaces in one place" principle.  but, in brazil, he'd had sufficient experience of using them to come around to keeping them separate.
[10:17] <SteveA> this is what zope3 does, more or less
[10:18] <SteveA> so, we need to decide where to put them in browser code
[10:18] <SteveA> we can move them from interfaces/whatever.py to browser/whatever.py
[10:18] <SteveA> that way, there's no new modules being created
[10:19] <SteveA> and the schemas are in the same module as they are most likely to be used in
[10:19] <jamesh> so we won't do something like browser/interfaces.py?
[10:19] <SteveA> reducing the number of imports needed
[10:19] <SteveA> right
[10:19] <jamesh> okay.  that makes sense
[10:20] <jamesh> the "hard to find" aspect isn't as big a deal, for interfaces with only a single use
[10:20] <SteveA> in zope3, the standard is to put "external" interfaces in interfaces.py
[10:20] <SteveA> but "internal" interfaces near to where they are most often used
[10:21] <SteveA> everyone should be using ctags anyway
[10:21] <jamesh> so do we want to go through and move all browser level interfaces, or just keep it in mind during reviews?
[10:22] <SteveA> we should get them all moved into the right places.
[10:22] <SteveA> and also keep it in mind during reviews ;-)
[10:23] <jamesh> okay.  You mentioned extending the schoolbell interface for a data entry schema
[10:23] <jamesh> is that possible without redefining all the properties?
[10:23] <jamesh> (which is pretty much a new interface)
[10:24] <SteveA> it may be possible to say something like
[10:24] <SteveA>  class SchoolBellForBrowser(SchoolBellOriginal):
[10:24] <SteveA>      foo = SchoolBellOriginal.foo
[10:24] <SteveA>      foo.description = _("Better description")
[10:24] <SteveA>
[10:25] <SteveA> i don't know for sure, though.
[10:25] <jamesh> that's going to update SchoolBellOriginal.foo.description though
[10:25] <SteveA> oh yeah
[10:25] <SteveA> i am still jetlagged ;-)
[10:25] <SteveA> so, you could do
[10:25] <SteveA>  foo = BetterDescription('foo', "Better description")
[10:25] <SteveA> where BetterDescription does:
[10:26] <SteveA>  - look up 'foo' from SchoolBellOriginal or its bases
[10:26] <SteveA>  - clones foo, provided it is a Field.  raises TypeError otherwise.
[10:26] <SteveA>  - resets the description on the clone
[10:27] <SteveA> BetterDescription would use the "class advice" hook
[10:27] <SteveA> so it actually runs after the SchoolBellForBrowser class suite is interpreted
[10:28] <SteveA> do you know about the class advice hook?
[10:28] <jamesh> no
[10:28] <SteveA> it is a fancy metaclasses trick
[10:29] <SteveA> i will get you some code, just a sec...
[10:29] <SteveA> launchpad/lib/zope/interface/advice.py
[10:29] <spiv> SteveA: Seems very magical.  Can't you just use foo = copy.copy(SchoolBellOriginal.foo); foo.description = _("Better description")?
[10:29] <SteveA> copy.copy sounds very magical to me ;-)
[10:30] <spiv> You do have a point there ;)
[10:30] <SteveA> but, if that works, it's great.
[10:30] <SteveA> i don't know if Fields support being copied.
[10:30] <SteveA> copying uses pickle
[10:30] <spiv> But I'd rate copy.copy as lesser evil than metaclasses ;)
[10:30] <SteveA> i think
[10:30] <SteveA> so if it does, it won't work
[10:31] <SteveA> the class advice hook is what 'implements(IWhatever)' uses
[10:31] <jamesh> spiv: do you think sqlobject should have a converter for set instances?
[10:31] <spiv> Well, it falls back to some of the same infrastructure as pickle, without actually pickling.
[10:32] <SteveA> jamesh: so you now have two approaches, either of which *might* work :-)
[10:32] <SteveA> see zope/interface/declarations.py for how advice is used, using addClassAdvisor
[10:33] <jamesh> that code is evil :)
[10:33] <SteveA> i'm only partly responsible :-)
[10:34] <spiv> jamesh:
[10:34] <spiv> >>> class Ten(1,2,3,4):
[10:34] <spiv> ...     __metaclass__ = lambda n,b,d: sum(b)
[10:34] <spiv> ...
[10:34] <spiv> >>> print type(Ten), Ten
[10:34] <spiv> <type 'int'> 10
[10:35] <jamesh> I can see why it all works
[10:35] <spiv> (It such a shame Python doesn't let you say "class Ten(*range(5))"...)
[10:35] <SteveA> QUOTES PAGE!
[10:37] <SteveA> jamesh: can you move over the appropriate schemas to browser/ at the same time you improve the calendar schemas?
[10:37] <jamesh> okay
[10:38] <SteveA> thanks
[10:38] <carlos> morning
[10:39] <SteveA> hi carlos
[11:09] <SteveA> carlos: what do you think about the message-id / original text in a comment thing that zope / plone uses?
[11:09] <SteveA> we'll be using this in a few places in launchpad too, i expect
[11:09] <SteveA> because of how page templates i18n works
[11:10] <carlos> SteveA, It should not be too difficult to implement a way to show it
[11:10] <carlos> in fact... I think it should work already
[11:10] <carlos> hmmm, no, perhaps no, as we only show comments that come from source code
[11:10] <carlos> but should be easy to extend Rosetta to show those other comments
[11:12] <SteveA> it would be a good thing to do soon, so the plone people can use rosetta well
[11:13] <carlos> the change to show those comments should be trivial, will try to do it later today
[11:15] <jstr> hey guys how long does it take for the verification email to be posted?
[11:16] <SteveA> jstr: do you mean for verifying that an email address is your own?
[11:17] <jstr> when you sign up for membership, and an email gets sent to address that you provide
[11:17] <SteveA> right
[11:17] <SteveA> it gets sent to you immediately
[11:18] <SteveA> any delay is from the normal short delay in sending email, or a longer delay if there's a routing problem to your mail server, or a *very* long delay if the address was mistyped
[11:19] <SteveA> we had a problem a few weeks ago where there was a misconfiguration in the launchpad internal mail systems, and mail wasn't getting out.  we fixed that, though.
[11:19] <jstr> its the right address... i think its just my slow crappy uni email address... oh well ill just wait it out
[11:40] <carlos> SteveA, btw, could you send me the emails about the pending reviews from daf?
[11:40] <carlos> SteveA, so I can finish the review changes and merge the branches?
[11:48] <SteveA> carlos: i don't know what you need
[11:48] <carlos> SteveA, you told me on Brazil that i should take care of the open reviews that daf has while he's offline
[11:49] <carlos> SteveA, so you told me that this week you woul try to send me the review emails sent to daf so I can merge those changes after the review changes are applied
[11:49] <carlos> do you remember it?
[11:52] <SteveA> i can't find any emails about these reviews
[11:52] <SteveA> so, i'm not sure where they will be
[11:52] <carlos> SteveA, ok
[11:53] <carlos> I will send an email to daf just in case he reads it before coming back to work
[11:53] <SteveA> okay
[11:53] <SteveA> thanks
[11:55] <carlos> np
[11:57] <carlos> stub, I just requested a merge into rocketfuel for two fixes that should be cherry picked into production
[11:57] <carlos> stub, could you do it today?
[11:58] <carlos> one of the fixes needs also that you execute a script to migrate data
[12:14] <Kinnison> stub: can I ask you to cast an eye over<EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[12:15] <Kinnison> stub: So far it's just all the database stuff for renaming BinaryPackage to BinaryPackageRelease and shuffling the publishing stuff around a touch more
[12:15] <Kinnison> stub: but it's quite a bit of db shuffling so I'd appreciate your eye on it
[12:22] <carlos> stub, btw, the error that you got with the whitespace migration script is a matter of move the .commit to another line and that should be all... I'm going to merge that fix too so we can finish that migration too
[01:08] <WaterSevenUb> hi... suppose I download "nano" po file from rosetta (breezy), and upgrade hoary to the latest nano breezy. Should the translation match the version of breezy?
[01:12] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: in theory yes
[01:12] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: it doesn't?
[01:14] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: well... some of the strings that are translated in the PO file, like in the "help" text of "nano", when I run the program appear in the original (english), not translated.
[01:15] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: any other very visible string?
[01:15] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: what language?
[01:15] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: ??, Portuguese
[01:16] <jordi> oh.
[01:16] <jordi> any other string that is translated but isn't showing up?
[01:19] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: there are a lot of strings that do not appear in the PO file... but from the translated ones that do not appear I'm only finding one... give me one minute.
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: yes, there are... and what is more strange is that "Constantly show cursor position" in the PO file appears in "nano" as "Constant cursor position display"
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: so it seems that I'm mixing versions...
[01:22] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: ok
[01:22] <jordi> what version of nano are you using? 1.3.8?
[01:22] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: yape...
[01:24] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: ok, from what I see, the translation in rosetta appears to be for 1.2.x (hoary)
[01:25] <jordi> I don't know why it's not tracking the breezy version yet.
[01:25] <jordi> Carlos?
[01:25] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: hmmm.. how do you see that?:)
[01:26] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: hmm, because I know the messages :)
[01:26] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/nano/+pots/nano
[01:26] <carlos> jordi, that's breezy
[01:26] <jordi> I'm quite involved in nano upstream :)
[01:26] <jordi> carlos: why isn't it linked from https://launchpad.net/products/nano/+translations ?
[01:26] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: excellent! now I have someone to bother ;)
[01:26] <carlos> jordi, 1.3.7-2
[01:27] <carlos> jordi, because what I told you yesterday, you need to link the sourcepackage with a product series
[01:27] <carlos> so they appear there
[01:27] <jordi> carlos: and we need to do this for every product? sounds like fun.
[01:27] <carlos> jordi, right ;-)
[01:28] <carlos> but it only needs to be done once
[01:28] <jordi> carlos: so, https://launchpad.net/products/nano/+series/head/
[01:28] <jordi> do I "Link to Ubuntu package"?
[01:28] <carlos> future releases should reuse that information, you would only change the series if it's different
[01:29] <carlos> jordi, I think you were missing the needed permissions..
[01:29] <carlos> am I right?
[01:29] <jordi> totally right
[01:30] <WaterSevenUb> (hhmm... about a small note in Rosetta, in the top of each template translation, indicating the version that the template matches?)
[01:30] <jordi> is nano not in breezy?
[01:31] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: more than the version, what branch
[01:31] <carlos> jordi, it is
[01:31] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, well, it supposed to match latest version of that package in the distribution you are translating into
[01:32] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: :)
[01:33] <carlos> sorry, I killed my X server...
[01:35] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: can you send me a 1.3.8 PO file that I can work on while you try to sync things? Thanks.
[01:39] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, you can get it from the URL I pasted here
[01:40] <carlos> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/nano/+pots/nano
[01:41] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: There's a guy called Rui Azevedo or something who is working on pt (Portugal)
[01:41] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: thanks! I'm still not used to the many links in launchpad, sorry.
[01:41] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: I am that guy:-p
[01:41] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: me neither :)
[01:41] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: oh, great :)
[01:41] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: well, you've got mail :)
[01:41] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: :)
[01:42] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: translating official GNU projects is a bit annoying at the beginning
[01:42] <jordi> you'll read why
[02:00] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Fixed the fuzzy flag set/unset when importing a published .po file (r=SteveA). Changed @@absolute_url with fmt:url + pagetest added and fixed transaction problems with the whitespace migration script [trivial]  (patch-2242<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:20] <carlos> SteveA, got the review emails from daf, I will try to merge those branches this week
[02:34] <jordi> carlos: I don't know why, but the breezy template of nano doesn't appear to be current.
[02:35] <carlos> jordi, the header says that it was generated on 2005-04-12
[02:35] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: "POT-Creation-Date: 2005-07-06 11:47:56.556271+00:00\n"
[02:35] <carlos> jordi, perhaps the problem is that the .pot file shiped with nano is not in sync with the code?
[02:35] <jordi> "POT-Creation-Date: 2005-06-30 13:24-0400\n"
[02:36] <jordi> this is from the tarball in Debian
[02:36] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: "POT-Creation-Date: 2005-07-06 11:47:56.556271+00:00\n" - this is from the header of the PO file I downloaded
[02:36] <carlos> jordi, is it the same we have in breezy?
[02:36] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, from Rosetta?
[02:36] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: yes.
[02:36] <carlos> then the problem is that the .pot file is outdated
[02:36] <jordi> that date matches the release date of nano 1.3.8
[02:37] <jordi> carlos: where, in rosetta or the tarball?
[02:37] <jordi> it is ok in the tarball
[02:38] <carlos> jordi, the imported version is 1.3.7-2
[02:38] <carlos> jordi, so perhaps that's the problem
[02:39] <jordi> yes, it is.
[02:39] <jordi> the strings WaterSevenUb is seeing untranslated chanegd between 1.3.7 and 13.8
[02:40] <carlos> jordi, seems like something is previnting our scripts to import the 1.3.8 version
[02:40] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, jordi would you file a bug report about it, please?
[02:40] <carlos> the tarball is there since 2005-07-22 so seems like there is a problem
[02:41] <jordi> do you have logs?
[02:41] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: I leave that to you :)
[02:41] <jordi> WaterSevenUb: yeah, don't worry.
[02:44] <carlos> jordi, yeah, but it's not easy to find that and I'm a bit busy to look at it atm
[02:44] <jordi> k
[02:45] <jordi> done
[02:48] <WaterSevenUb> jordi: #?
[02:49] <jordi> hmm. lost it
[02:49] <jordi> wait a sec
[02:49] <jordi> #   Bug #1729: nano 1.3.8 isn't imported in Rosetta
[02:49] <carlos> jordi, thanks
[02:51] <WaterSevenUb> thx
[03:06] <bradb> morning
[03:36] <SteveA> bradb: you know the wiki is back?
[03:37] <bradb> SteveA: yup, but login doesn't work for me ("Sorry, wrong password")
[03:37] <SteveA> bradb: use your launchpad password
[03:38] <bradb> that's what I've always done
[03:38] <bradb> do i have to use an lp email address now too?
[03:38] <SteveA> try it
[03:39] <bradb> oh, apparently i'm BradBollenbach2 now
[03:39] <bradb> (login with email worked, frighteningly enough)
[03:39] <SteveA> okay
[03:40] <SteveA> so, you need to ask stub to sort out BradBollenbach2
[03:47] <SteveA> bradb: you lost your subscribed pages, i think, with the upgrade to 1.3
[03:48] <bradb> bummer
[03:50] <bradb> was the upgrade botched?
[04:02] <SteveA> i have no idea
[04:04] <salgado> yo SteveA
[04:05] <SteveA> hi salgado
[04:06] <salgado> SteveA, I have the feeling that today you woke up with a special inclination for doing code reviews. (please tell me I'm right. ;)
[04:06] <SteveA> sure, i can do code reviews
[04:06] <SteveA> i'm off to the gym in a short while, though.  but, i can do reviews later today.
[04:07] <salgado> that's great. do you still have my mail about the smallfixes--4 branch?
[04:07] <SteveA> no idea
[04:08] <SteveA> i see that jamesh reviewed that a while ago
[04:10] <SteveA> after so long out of the normal flow of work, at the sprintathon, it's a good idea to send out fresh reminders of what you need from other people
[04:11] <salgado> I just bounced the mail. maybe you can give a quick look on the lines "@@ -325,13 +349,17 @@ class ValidateEmailView(object):" of the diff<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:11] <salgado> just to tell me how evil that hack is, and if I should remove it
[04:15] <SteveA> well, it looks okay to me
[04:15] <SteveA> i'd use the variable 'dupe_person_name' instead of 'dupe', and make it email.person.name
[04:15] <SteveA> because you are not using 'dupe' anywhere else
[04:17] <salgado> godd point
[04:17] <SteveA> a comment would help, explaining that the next section of code is going to detect a dupe
[04:17] <SteveA> and if so, return text that tells the user they can merge accounts
[04:17] <SteveA> the error message would ideally be given in the page template itself
[04:19] <salgado> IIRC that's not possible because that method has to handle too many corner cases. to have the messges in the template I'd need to check a lot of possible return values from the method
[04:20] <SteveA> well...
[04:20] <SteveA> you could have the method set self.is_dupe_email on the view instance
[04:21] <SteveA> or some other appropriate name
[04:21] <SteveA> and then simply check that in the template
[04:21] <SteveA> or, you can have more than one template for the view
[04:21] <SteveA> include them as ViewPageTemplate attributes
[04:21] <SteveA> and choose which one you want depending on what case you're dealing with
[04:22] <SteveA> there are various ways of doing it
[04:22] <SteveA> maybe the way you have chosen is already the simplest
[04:22] <SteveA> i can't say, without looking closely at all the code
[04:24] <salgado> I think the way I choose is simplest than these ones you proposed, but I think it'd be better if I set some attributes in the view class and then move the messages to the template itself
[04:26] <SteveA> english language: "is simpler"
[04:26] <SteveA> sure
[04:26] <SteveA> that sounds like a good plan, then
[04:27] <SteveA> it means that the text is in the page template
[04:34] <madduck> i have a burning question! was the name "Malone" chosen with any reference to Samuel Beckett?
[04:35] <Kinnison> Buggsy Malone (I imagine)
[04:39] <mpt> yes, with one g
[04:40] <mpt> http://images.google.com/images?q=bugsy%20malone
[05:07] <mpt> 99 conflicts of code in the files, 99 conflicts of code ... Take one down and merge it around, 98 conflicts of code ...
[05:09] <Nafallo> haha
[05:13] <madduck> ha
[05:13] <madduck> i am not acquainted with Bugsy
[05:13] <madduck> cute.
[05:13] <madduck> i read beckett over the weekend and it seems to be appropriate in places too. :)
[05:31] <kiko> ahoy
[05:33] <koke> hi!
[05:33] <koke> can you see https://launchpad.net/people/koke
[05:34] <koke> I've just merged two accounts and I can't see my personal page
[05:34] <kiko> salgado, another one :-(
[05:36] <carlos> kiko, !
[05:36] <carlos> koke, !
[05:36] <carlos> confusing, really confusing :-P
[05:36] <koke> :)
[05:37] <kiko> heh
[06:31] <jblack> keybuk: ping
[06:31] <Keybuk> jblack: yup?
[06:31] <jblack> Are you rather conversant on which debian guys work on which debian stuff?
[06:32] <Keybuk> roughly
[06:32] <Keybuk> depends on the "stuff"
[06:32] <jblack> Cool. You know awesome things. :)
[06:32] <Keybuk> which things?
[06:33] <jblack> All of them that you could rattle off that could be potentially be usefully revision controlled
[06:34] <jblack> My goal is to chase down projects that need baz2 goodness, and help them across to it.
[06:34] <jblack> Debian's internal stuff is a particularly sweet target, as they talk internally so much.
[06:36] <Keybuk> what kind of internal stuff?  dak and so-on?
[06:37] <jblack> Yeah. That and the install utils, anything that could be useful. I would target dpkg, but you're already sold I think. I've already sent an email off to apt.
[06:38] <jblack> Basically, any deb project that could be revision controlled. If I get a handful of Deb guys selling it, then they'll sell the rest of debian over for me. (much like is happening with arch/gnome)
[06:38] <Keybuk> apt would be mdz ;)
[06:39] <Keybuk> dak would be elmo
[06:39] <Keybuk> installer stuff is joeyh, who may be a hard convert from svn
[06:39] <Keybuk> but Kamion and bubulle are big on that team too
[06:39] <mpt> koke: If you subscribe yourself to https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1314 you'll be notified when the bug is fixed
[06:40] <jblack> How about the install team?
[06:40] <Keybuk> joeyh
[06:40] <mpt> koke: Actually, make that 131
[06:40] <mpt> 131
[06:40] <mpt> 333
[06:40] <mpt> gah
[06:40] <mpt> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1313
[07:12] <mpt> Is there any way for a pagetest to say "this text does *not* occur anywhere"?
[07:14] <bradb-lunch> mpt: it's just python
[07:14] <bradb-lunch> so foo not in bar works
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> i don't know of a more readable way to do it
[07:15] <mpt> "it's just python" doesn't make something substantially easier for me :-)
[07:15] <mpt> What would be "bar" in this case?
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> >>> 'foo' not in 'bar'
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> True
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> >>> 'foo' not in 'barfoo'
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> False
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> so, foo is a variable with a string value in it
[07:15] <bradb-lunch> and so is bar
[07:16] <mpt> so foo = print http(r""" ... the rest of the test
[07:16] <bradb-lunch> no "print" there
[07:17] <mpt> oh, I see
[07:20] <mpt>   >>> 'HTTP/1.1 200 OK' in output
[07:20] <mpt>   True
[07:20] <mpt>   >>> 'Your subscription to this bounty has been updated' in output
[07:20] <mpt>   True
[07:20] <mpt>   >>> 'Foo Bar' in output
[07:20] <mpt>   False
[07:21] <bradb-lunch> actually not so terribly unreadable, i guess
[07:23] <bradb-lunch> the failure messages will be less informative, but then, they're already fully unreadable except by the most determined (and even then...)
[07:23] <mpt> heh
[07:23] <mpt> hmm, you have a point there
[07:24] <mpt> if the test fails I can't tell why
[07:25] <mpt> but that's true even if I test for anything in the usual ...way...
[07:25] <mpt> except for 500 errors, I guess
[07:30] <Kinnison> ciao
[07:35] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  add sampledata for sourcepackage bug list view class testing (patch-2243<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:37] <kiko> i/o silver
[07:54] <carlos> see you
[07:55] <kiko> carlos!
[07:58] <carlos> kiko, !
[07:58] <carlos> kiko, I need to leave, do you need anything?
[08:03] <kiko> carlos, wanted to touch base, are you around later, or only tomorrow?
[08:03] <carlos> kiko, perhaps I will be around later, but I cannot give you a concrete time
[08:20] <bradb> SteveA: It seems as though we need a place to put classes that are "content classes" but are not tied to the database (e.g. BugTaskSearchParams is currently in the interfaces namespace :/) Would it be useful to create a canonical.launchpad.app namespace for this purpose?
[08:24] <kiko> bradb, note that SteveA was the one that suggested placing it in interfaces
[08:25] <bradb> evil! I created an interface for it and am now looking for a good home for the content class
[08:25] <kiko> bradb, note also that I have a patch here that moves createTask to IBugTarget as well, though I am not sure I like the general pattern so much here (I'm concerned we're straying from other launchpad patterns)
[08:25] <kiko> when SteveA is around I'd like a reping
[08:26] <bradb> sure (i have to leave in about 20 mins for a bit, but maybe he'll be back before then)
[08:27] <kiko> great
[08:48] <bradb> right, heading out for a bit, will read scrollback re: SteveA's/others thought on the .app namespace when i get back
[08:50] <kiko> ok
[10:19] <SteveA> bradb-bbl: BugTaskSearchParams should be in interfaces
[10:19] <SteveA> it is like an event
[10:19] <SteveA> or an exception
[10:20] <SteveA> it forms part of the contract between an IBugTarget and its user
[10:20] <SteveA> i don't expect to ever see more than one implementation of BugTaskSearchParams
[10:21] <stub> Goddammit it is still black outside
[10:24] <SteveA> cprov: noted about the meeting
[10:24] <SteveA> hi stu
[10:25] <cprov> SteveA: thank you man.
[10:25] <SteveA> bradb-bbl: don't create an interface for BugTaskSearchParams.
[10:25] <SteveA> it doesn't need an interface, the same as events and exceptions don't actually need interfaces
[10:25] <SteveA> it's just extra code to maintain
[10:29] <kiko-afk> heya stub
[10:29] <kiko-afk> heya SteveA
[10:29] <kiko-afk> do we have a meeting tomorrow?
[10:29] <SteveA> sure do
[10:29] <SteveA> it is in the channel title
[11:14] <bradb> no interface for BTSP...
[11:15] <bradb> SteveA: Should the interfaces package contain just interfaces, or should it contain things other than interfaces as well?
[11:15] <bradb> (like, say, BTSP_
[11:15] <bradb> )
[11:15] <SteveA> it already contains things other than interfaces
[11:15] <SteveA> it already contains things other than Interfaces
[11:15] <SteveA> basically, it should contain those things required to use "the interface" to the software
[11:16] <SteveA> these things include:
[11:16] <SteveA>  - Interfaces
[11:16] <SteveA>  - events
[11:16] <SteveA>  - exceptions
[11:16] <SteveA>  - objects that represent the parameters to methods
[11:17] <SteveA> so, really, the package should be called 'interface' or perhaps 'api' instead of 'interfaces'.
[11:17] <SteveA> but, zope3 has stuck with 'interfaces' as a convention.  we're broadly-speaking following what zope3 does.
[11:20] <bradb> SteveA: IOW, if a class is expected to only ever have one implementation, there should not be an Interface defined for it?
[11:21] <SteveA> that's one criteria, but it isn't sufficient
[11:21] <bradb> does the apidoc tool generate docs specifically for things that inherit from Interface?
[11:22] <SteveA> you can say: if a class is expected to only ever have one implementation, then you may consider not defining an interface for it.  There are, however, other good reasons to define interfaces for many things.
[11:23] <SteveA> in launchpad, we don't need to define interfaces for: interfaces (they already exist), events, exceptions, parameter objects.  Sometimes, the zope3 infrastructure makes things more convenient when we define an interface, for example for events or exceptions in some cases.
[11:23] <SteveA> but, this is arguably a shortcoming in zope3, rather than a best practice.
[11:24] <SteveA> apidoc understands interfaces (things that provide IInterface)
[11:24] <SteveA> and apidoc understands a lot of other things besides
[11:24] <SteveA> i must go to bed now -- trying to curtail the jetlag.
[11:24] <SteveA> before i go
[11:25] <SteveA> another way to look at the question of "where should BugTaskSearchParams go" is to consider what it is for
[11:25] <SteveA> it is part of the glue between browser code, or other application code, and database code
[11:25] <SteveA> you can think of the stuff in 'interfaces' as the glue
[11:25] <bradb> it's an object used to talk to the database code.
[11:25] <SteveA> right
[11:25] <SteveA> it isn't database code
[11:25] <bradb> not necessarily limited to browser -> db interaction
[11:26] <SteveA> nor is it application code as such
[11:26] <SteveA> it is glue
[11:26] <SteveA> that's why i said above "between browser code, or other application code"
[11:26] <bradb> right right
[11:27] <SteveA> dbschema stuff should really be in 'interfaces' too, but i'm not going to make that change just yet.
[11:27] <SteveA> for one thing, there are name collissions between dbschema classes and database classes
[11:27] <SteveA> for another thing, it is good to be able to clearly see what is a dbschema when it is used in code
[11:27] <bradb> it is indeed
[11:27] <SteveA> so, this needs some thought, and some new ideas
[11:28] <bradb> i wonder if BTSP belongs in searchbuilder then?
[11:28] <SteveA> i'll probably move it into canonical/launchpad/dbschema.py as a first step, though
[11:28] <bradb> or does the searchbuilder stuff belong in interfaces?
[11:28] <SteveA> it belongs with the interface that defines the operation it is used in
[11:28] <SteveA> that interface is IBugTarget, right?
[11:29] <bradb> or IBugTaskSet, i believe
[11:29] <bradb> yes, IBugTaskSet as well
[11:29] <SteveA> so, it belongs right next to IBugTarget or IBugTaskSet
[11:29] <SteveA> i see what you mean about searchbuilder, though
[11:29] <SteveA> where is that at the moment?
[11:30] <bradb> canonical/launchpad/searchbuilder.pt
[11:30] <bradb> .py, even
[11:30] <SteveA> so, i guess it could go there.  but, i seems a bit odd to me.  i wonder what others think.
[11:30] <bradb> I'd happily get rid of searchbuilder entireliy
[11:31] <bradb> NULL could simply be None
[11:31] <SteveA> well, one thing at a time
[11:31] <SteveA> i'm off to sleep.
[11:31] <SteveA> see you tomorrow -- launchpad meeting, btw
[11:31] <bradb> ok, i'll roll back the iface definition for BTSP, thanks. see you tomorrow morning.
[11:35] <bradb> kiko: so, there you go, i guess BugTaskSearchParams does belong in interfaces then because 1. it's part of the launchpad API and 2. we don't expect to have another implementation for it.
[11:36] <bradb> there might be other reasons as well, but those were the two that i gathered to be the most important from talking to SteveA
[11:37] <kiko> yeah
[11:37] <kiko> bradb, do you think that doing IBugTarget.createTask is a good thing?
[11:37] <kiko> I have it done in my local tree but am still unsure
[11:38] <bradb> kiko: no, but i also don't think .searchTasks is particularly useful either. my thinking might be entirely wrong though.
[11:39] <bradb> kiko: do you think createTask is a good thing?
[11:40] <bradb> (or, put slightly differently, why are you unsure?)
[11:40] <kiko> well
[11:41] <kiko> searchTasks is useful if you want to do generic queries independent on what target it is
[11:43] <bradb> right, unless they evolve to have different params (like createTask)
[11:43] <bradb> at which point the value of IBugTarget's current API would seem to diminish
[11:44] <kiko> different params?
[11:44] <kiko> in what sense, bradb?
[11:44] <bradb> actually, they already do have different search params
[11:44] <kiko> really?
[11:44] <bradb> e.g. you wouldn't search for a specific sourcepackagename in an upstream
[11:44] <bradb> or bp name
[11:44] <kiko> good point
[11:45] <kiko> those are the only ones, right?
[11:45] <bradb> distrorelease
[11:45] <kiko> we could use params inheritance :-)
[11:46] <bradb> :P
[11:46] <bradb> productseries
[11:46] <bradb> productrelease
[11:46] <bradb> etc.
[11:47] <kiko> it's unfortunate -- I think the proper design would be to use a hierarchy of adapters (BaseTaskCollection and ProductTaskCollection, for instance) but it's not my call
[11:47] <kiko> and you'd adapt product to ITaskCollection
[11:48] <kiko> but that's subsets, isn't it?
[11:48] <bradb> i was just going to say...
[11:48] <bradb> :)
[11:48] <jblack> stevea: ping
[11:48] <bradb> i would agree that it's not as evil as it sounds though
[11:48] <jblack> nah. he's sleeping
[11:48] <kiko> it solves the problem better than a params instance
[11:49] <kiko> but let's let sleeping dogs lie
[11:49] <bradb> kiko knokws how to multi-task
[11:49] <bradb> :P
[11:49] <bradb> kiko: right
[11:49] <kiko> createTask() however does clean up some pretty gnarly if/elsing in one callsite
[11:49] <jblack> 17:44 < madduck> jblack: ok. lemme top off the night by telling you something
[11:49] <jblack>                  about me, and why i am even here...
[11:49] <jblack> 17:44 < madduck> i may well switch my phd field to workflow and productivity
[11:49] <jblack>                  management
[11:50] <jblack> 17:46 < madduck> so one of my first goals would be to improve the way teams
[11:50] <jblack>                  work on packages, and how to support multiple distros from a
[11:50] <jblack>                  single source
[11:50] <kiko> it appears that the pattern of the callsite not knowing what sort of target it has in its hand may not be that common
[11:50] <jblack> 17:46 < madduck> jblack: i'll be watching ubuntu, but i want to concentrate on
[11:50] <jblack>                  debian
[11:50] <jblack> (I didn't paste every line of his)
[11:50] <kiko> jblack, the best place for him to work is launchpad
[11:51] <bradb> kiko: interesting observation.
[11:51] <jblack> Basically, a guy is doing his phd on workflow analysis, wants to study the relationship between patchflow between distros.
[11:51] <kiko> observing relationships inside hct
[11:51] <kiko> (provided sourcerer is observing these distros)
[11:51] <jblack> He's talked to Mark at least once, has heard of hct. Seems like a good guy to tell more about.
[11:52] <kiko> yeah
[11:53] <Burgundavia> how do I assign a bug to someone now?
[11:53] <jblack> Imagine... launchpad being a thesis.
[11:53] <bradb> Burgundavia: what screen are you looking at?
[11:54] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1735
[11:54] <bradb> hey! what happened to the assign link!?
[11:54] <bradb> kiko: ^^ any idea?
[11:55] <kiko> Burgundavia, bradb: it's now edit/view a task.
[11:55] <bradb> i guess it was squished in favour of [edit] ?
[11:55] <kiko> yes
[11:56] <Burgundavia> oh there, ok
[11:56] <bradb> the 1.0 announcement will include a link to the FAQ, question #1 being "How do I assign a bug?" :)
[11:56] <bradb> which should reduce the number of times that question has to be answered by about 10%
[11:57] <Burgundavia> ok
[11:57] <Burgundavia> the edit link is a lot more sane than clicking the whole line
[11:57] <Burgundavia> I just didn't see it
[11:58] <bradb> that's our fault
[11:58] <bradb> but...that's likely how it'll work for 1.0 as well
[11:59] <kiko> we could add an icon as mpt has suggested in the past
[12:00] <bradb> given that the only clickable link in that row now (AFAIK) is the edit/view link, an icon could be a good way of drawing it out more
[12:00] <mpt> I could do that tomorrow
[12:01] <bradb> sounds good
[12:02] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Update production-1.27 config (patch-104<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:02] <Burgundavia> it would be nice at the bug page to link to the main gnome-screensaver page with trranslations, bugs, etc.
[12:03] <mpt> That will happen automatically when


[01:49] <Mitnick> anyone using ubuntu-arm 10.10?
[01:50] <Mitnick> marverick
[06:07] <Mitnick> i have fix the sound problems
[06:08] <MrCurious> nice!
[06:18] <Mitnick> ^_^
[07:10] <persia> Mitnick: Which sound problem, specifically?  For which platform?  Is there a bug?
[07:50] <Mitnick> persia: i installed prebuilt marverick,then i run sudo apt-get upgrade , when i test alsa ,but only output noise
[07:51] <Mitnick> persia: my board is pandaboard A2
[07:59] <Spider-Pork> try with 11.04
[07:59] <Spider-Pork> just to get your board working
[07:59] <Spider-Pork> store to a file your alsaconfig and restore it on your maverick
[08:03] <Mitnick> i had fixed up it by using amixer cset to change alsa configure
[08:08] <siji> hi all
[08:08] <siji> how to to autologin to ubuntu
[08:09] <siji> I have modified /etc/init/tty1.conf  with exec /sbin/mingetty --autologin siji tty1
[08:09] <siji> but it's not happening
[08:25] <siji> help..pls...
[08:39] <siji> persia, u there ?
[09:23] <Mitnick> rsalveti: yesterday's bug is still alive, there are still two depends need to fix
[12:35] <persia> Mitnick: sorry, I got caught in some meetings.
[12:35] <persia> siji: Yes.
[12:37] <siji> persia, ha..
[12:37] <siji> strugling to make xbmc autostart
[12:38] <persia> When do you want it to auto start?
[12:38] <siji> The OS have to start with xbmc
[12:39] <persia> OK.  Set up some user, st that user to autologin.  Set XMBC to autostart for that user.
[12:39] <siji> that I did
[12:39] <siji> autoloing
[12:40] <siji> login
[12:40] <persia> WIth /etc/xdg/autostart/foo.desktop?
[12:40] <siji> no
[12:40] <siji> i have modified /etc/init/tty1.conf for autologin
[12:41] <persia> I would have done something with the display manager configuration, but that might work.
[12:41] <siji> so autologin is happening
[12:41] <siji> ok
[12:41] <siji> persia, instead of lxde can i use only openbox
[12:41] <siji> ?
[12:41] <persia> Right, so when an XDG-compliant session starts, it will run the stuff from /etc/xdg/autostart/
[12:42] <siji> ok
[12:42] <persia> So just alunch the session in which you want to host XMBC, and it will launch XMBC if you add the appropriate .desktop file there.
[12:42] <siji> ok. let me give a try
[12:43] <persia> You could use openbox instead of lxde, but I don't believe openbox to be XDG compliant, so you might end up needing to hardcode more things.
[12:43] <siji> persia, ok
[12:44] <siji> cant I make openbox as default display manager ?
[12:44] <siji> by modifying /etc/X11/default-displaymanager
[12:44] <siji> Which hasnt worked for me
[12:45] <persia> I don't know the precise mechanism for making openbox the default dm
[12:46] <siji> ok
[12:46] <persia> I suspect that it'S related to the use of x-session-manager and x-window-manager, but I can't remember precisely how those work.
[12:46] <persia> IF openbox is the only provider of x-session-manager installed on the system, it *ought* be alunched by default without any extra effort.
[12:47] <persia> Of course, that depends on having the autologin be done by the x-display-manager : I'm not sure how it might interact with hardcoding in an upstart script.
[12:47] <siji> ok
[12:57] <siji> http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?t=38473
[12:57] <siji> I was refering this documentation
[12:57] <siji> But hasnt worked for me
[13:04] <persia> I'm not sure.  From a brief look, I wouldn't do it that way at all.
[13:06] <siji> ok
[13:15] <topi1> can a userspace program also install an interrupt handler or must it be in the kernel?
[14:17] <siji> persia, i have tried one sample apps in autostart with lxde and it's working
[14:17] <siji> not able to start xbmc cose its borken ;(
[14:18] <siji> I hope the same way xbmc also can start
[14:28] <siji> persia, am trying to run xbmc on top of openbox
[14:28] <siji> and modified defaultdisplay manager file with openbox-session
[14:29] <siji> but it's only  login to the console mode
[14:29] <siji> why it's like that
[15:05] <persia> I suspect it'S because you've set autologin in the upstart script, rather than launching an x-display-manager, and having that do the autologin.
[15:56] <rOxx> hello, i have installed last year the ubuntu 10.10 netbook version on my beagleboard xm with kernel 2.6.35-23-omap, now i want to build a new kernel, but i dont find the sources for this version. can someone help me ?
[16:01] <persia> rOxx: How badly do you want that specific version?  Source is fairly easy to find for 2.6.35-22.33 (which should have been used for release), and 2.6.35-30.54 (which is the recommended kernel for 10.10 currently).
[16:02] <persia> If you *really* want -23, there appaer to be three revisions:
[16:03] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/linux/2.6.35-23.39
[16:03] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/linux/2.6.35-23.40
[16:03] <persia> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/linux/2.6.35-23.41
[16:04] <fisuk> hiyall.. umm, could somebody point out how to play 1080p with hw accel (headless natty on pandaboard), since I can't find anything about it on the wiki... i've installed all the omap4 extras, but don't really know what to do now
[16:06] <topfs2> fisuk, gstreamer should be acceled after that
[16:06] <rOxx> persia: this versions are not patched for omap systems?
[16:07] <persia> rOxx: I don't think there are many patches needed for the beagleboard, and I suspect those versions have them.
[16:07] <persia> If you especially want the older version, you may need the matching linux-meta package (start from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+publishinghistory)
[16:08] <persia> But I'll strongly recommend you upgrade to 2.6.35-30.54 if you're running 10.10
[16:11] <GrueMaster> rOxx: The Maverick omap kernel was still separate from the ubuntu main kernel.  It wasn't until Natty that it was integrated into the main ubuntu kernel tree.
[16:11] <fisuk> topfs2: so just outputting to the framebuffer will do the job?
[16:11] <persia> GrueMaster: Thanks for the correction.
[16:11]  * persia digs up different urls
[16:13] <rOxx> ok i will try it with a newer version. i want to build the kernel on my desktop computer, because i think on the beagleboard it is very slow. the procedure of the kernel cross compiling is to build the kernel with the modules on my desktop, copy the source folder back to the beagleboard, then install the modules and update-initramfs, copy the uImage to the fat partition and boote from sd card again. is this correkt ?
[16:13] <topfs2> fisuk, output what? if its a file it needs to be decoded, that you use gstraemer for
[16:14] <GrueMaster> rOxx: Sounds right.
[16:14] <rOxx> GrueMaster: is this correct, that i need for the maverick version a special omap kernel version and cant use the main ubuntu kernel for beagleboard xm?
[16:14] <fisuk> topfs2: i mean the device where to output the video after gstreamer decodes it. speaking in gstreamer terms, the output sink. fbdevsink.
[16:15] <GrueMaster> yes.  The beagleXM support was added very late in Maverick, but after it landed, it went into the upstream kernel and the kernel team was able to just use one tree after that.
[16:15] <topfs2> ought to work I guess
[16:16] <GrueMaster> rOxx: Unless you are really attached to Maverick, I would recommend using natty as a starting point.
[16:19] <rOxx> GrueMaster: you suggest to update to the natty version and use the main ubuntu kernel version then ?
[16:19] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[16:20] <GrueMaster> Although unless you have a lot of stuff installed, it would be much quicker to reinstall than to upgrade, especially if you are only on SD.
[16:22] <rOxx> yes i have installed a lot of stuff and want to update, do you know how long it take to compile a new kernel on the beagleboard?
[16:23] <GrueMaster> Let me look at the buildd output logs.  Somewhere around 2-3 hours I think.
[16:24] <rOxx> ok, i thought it take much more time.
[16:24] <GrueMaster> Er, more like 8-9 hours.
[16:25] <rOxx> i want to use the old .config file for the new kernel. what is the best way to do this ?
[16:26] <persia> make oldconfig
[16:26] <rOxx> yes on the beagleboard its right, but on my desktop ?
[16:27] <rOxx> copy the .config via ssh from the beagleboard to my desktop. but in which folder ?
[16:28] <persia> Wouldn't you put it in the folder where your cross-source resides?
[16:28]  * persia doesn't cross-compile, and isn't quite sure.
[16:30] <rOxx> with oldconfig it use the .config file from the kernel folder and not from the boot folder ?
[16:31] <GrueMaster> I would think the build process for using an old config would be the same for all arches regardless of cross-compiling.
[16:31]  * GrueMaster hasn't compiled a kernel in a while.
[16:32] <GrueMaster> Last time I did it, I just copied the config to <kernel-src>/.config and ran make oldconfig.
[16:33] <GrueMaster> btw.  The Natty release kernel took 20.5 hours to build on arm HW.
[16:33] <GrueMaster> https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ppa/+build/2598151
[16:37] <rOxx> ok thx i will try it. but i have another question. i^m using a hama sd card class6 since 3/4 year and now it is very slow in the write speed. now i want to copy the hama sd card with dd to a new one. is this correct that i only must edit the UUID number in the bootloader to boot the linux system from a new card ?
[16:53] <GrueMaster> If you are using a PC to do the copying and have two SD readers, use gparted.  It has a copy partition feature that will copy the uuid and everything.
[16:54] <GrueMaster> You can also use it to copy the rootfs to a usb drive (which will greatly speed up performance).  Just make sure you either reformat the SD root partition or at least change the uuid.
[16:58] <rOxx> ok, with a usb drive, which changed are needed for boot from it ?
[17:04] <GrueMaster> rOxx: If you use gparted to copy the rootfs partition, none, other than changing the uuid of the SD root partition.
[17:05] <rOxx> ok for sd cards i understand it and for a usb drive the same procedureß
[17:05] <rOxx> ?
[17:07] <zul> so how do i get oneiric on to a pandaboard?
[17:07] <GrueMaster> gparted will make a copy-exact of the selected partition, including the uuid.  Once the copy is done, both the SD and USB drive will share a uuid.  Since the fstab and boot.scr are set to mount root via uuid, if you change the SD uuid, it will go to the usb drive.  The kernel will still load from SD.
[17:07] <GrueMaster> zul, there are many ways.    Latest is in /ubuntu-server/daily-preinstalled.
[17:10] <GrueMaster> The latest uses the new 3.0 kernel.  :D


[00:02] <asac> ArneGoetje: ok trying to get that. we dont really have a spec; let me talk to rick what we can do ;)
[00:03] <ArneGoetje> asac: thanks a bunch!
[00:04] <asac> but we discussed that already this afternoon so i think it should be ok. actually i would think that the code changes should be easy enough to have this by friday ;)
[00:04] <asac> do you think thats doable? otherwise how long does a langpack rollout take?
[00:04] <asac> like just an update of langpacks without a new export
[00:07] <ArneGoetje> asac: yes, but it takes my time from working on my work items and I need to justify myself for that
[00:15] <asac> ArneGoetje: yes. understood ... i will get a work item today so you can work on friday on that ;)
[00:16] <ArneGoetje> asac: for stable releases with upstream XPIs, do updated strings from rosetta actually get merged into the .jar files? Or are only upstream XPIs used?
[00:16] <ArneGoetje> asac: thanks
[00:17] <asac> atm we use upstream xpis for stable release
[00:18] <asac> simply because we have no qa procedure atm that would be good enough - as discussed before
[00:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: ah, ok.
[00:22] <ccheney> what do you link to get the symbols from resolv.h?
[00:23] <ccheney> libresolv?
[00:27] <ccheney> yep that fixed it :)
[00:28] <ccheney> 1 get_type left to fix and then the other more complicated bits left
[00:33] <ArneGoetje> asac: please note that I won't be available next week, due to Chinese New Year
[00:41]  * ccheney is also gone thu-mon
[01:05] <ccheney> finally down to just:
[01:05] <ccheney> ../libsoup/.libs/libsoup-2.4.so: undefined reference to `g_main_context_pop_thread_default'
[01:05] <ccheney> ../libsoup/.libs/libsoup-2.4.so: undefined reference to `g_poll'
[01:06] <ccheney> ../libsoup/.libs/libsoup-2.4.so: undefined reference to `g_main_context_push_thread_default'
[01:06] <ccheney> ../libsoup/.libs/libsoup-2.4.so: undefined reference to `gnutls_priority_set_direct'
[01:07] <ccheney> 188KB 6.3Kline patch
[01:07] <ccheney> still won't really know if it works though until i get it all done :-\
[01:09]  * ccheney off to his 5 day weekend :)
[09:01] <BUGabundo_remote> morning
[10:22] <asac> ccheney: ca you post what you got ?
[10:23] <asac> before going on vac?
[13:08] <ripps>  Man, there has to be a leak in chromium or something, it causes my computer to grind to a halt whenever I start loading relatively large images. It never did this before. And it remains slow even when the tab with the image has been closed.
[13:14] <asac> i didnt upgrade today. so cant confirm
[13:20] <ripps> I'm using the -dev ppa and I've had this problem for a while. It seems once chromium takes up most of my ram, it refuses to let it go.
[14:15] <sebner> asac: too late? *mauahaha*
[14:16]  * micahg thinks asac is up to his arm in code :P
[15:55] <micahg> Ubuntu Mozillateam meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 5 minutes
[16:07] <micahg> asac: so, I looked at the fontconfig bug in bmo, and followed the links upstream, it seems like it was stalled
[16:08] <micahg> I was thinking to poke cairo upstream
[16:13] <asac> micahg: so ... the lcd  bug is something upstream blocks on
[16:13] <asac> micahg: the gtk setting imo just is an issue because its a different cairo than the one previously loaded by gtkj
[16:13] <micahg> idk
[16:14] <asac> if nothing changes i will install fedora
[16:14] <micahg> asac: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=23125&action=edit
[16:14] <asac> i am sure they have the same issue
[16:14] <asac> and upstream just never saw good fonts :)
[16:15] <asac> hmm
[16:15] <asac> i think that code landed eventually
[16:15] <asac> maybe check if you can still see that code in the current tree
[16:15] <micahg> yep
[16:15]  * micahg checks 1.8
[16:15] <micahg> .1.8.8 first
[16:16] <micahg> not in 1.8.8
[16:16]  * micahg looks in trunnk
[16:17] <micahg> asac: not in trunk
[16:17] <asac> ask in cairo ;)?
[16:17] <asac> #cairo
[16:17]  * micahg has it somewhere
[16:18] <asac> anyway. that feels related, but still doesnt explain why gtk settings dont work
[16:18] <asac> thats not fontconfig
[16:18] <asac> (still would be a great catch if it was true)
[16:18] <micahg> well, I'm trying to get rid of upstream's reasons why it's not their fault :)
[16:19] <micahg> I clearly saw the issue posted in teh otehr bug about handling of fonts, so I thought I'd look into it
[16:20] <micahg> different display based on xfb or cairo backend
[16:20] <micahg> s/xfb/xft
[16:23] <micahg> asac: are you waiting to spin all the stuff to teh security PPA at once?
[16:25] <asac> yeah
[16:25] <asac> well. the easiest way to give strong indication that its upstream is to run fedora
[16:25] <asac> and see if it works there ;)
[16:25] <asac> that gives us two distros having the same issue
[16:25] <asac> if not, we are at fault
[16:25] <asac> or they have a patch we didnt pick up
[16:25] <micahg> asac: k
[16:25] <micahg> i'll d/l f12
[16:27] <asac> cooool
[16:27] <asac> try upstream build there ;)
[16:27] <micahg> k
[16:29]  * micahg will be back in 20-30 min
[16:44] <LLStarks> mmmm. did i miss the meeting?
[16:44] <LLStarks> asac, can you look at this bug: http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/9274/dragging.png
[16:45] <LLStarks> dragged links receive no antialiasing.
[17:12] <svosusr3> I added the ubuntu-mozilla-daily repositories to my karmic and did sudo apt-get install firefox-3.6 . i fetched some 28KB of data.but i don't have firefox-3.6. when I do aptitude show firefox-3.6 , the description says its a transitional package. how do i get ff 3.6
[17:13] <svosusr3> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:mozillateam/firefox-stable - > <urlopen error [Errno -2] Name or service not known>
[17:14] <micahg> LLStarks: no, we'll reschedule
[17:15] <micahg> svosusr3: it's firefox now
[17:17] <ccheney> asac: ok will post it
[17:18] <svosusr3> michag: i ran /usr/bin/firefox -  i am still at 3.5.7
[17:19] <svosusr3> sorry abt the typo : micahg*
[17:19] <micahg> svosusr3: so, sudo apt-get dist-upgrade should do it
[17:24] <LLStarks> why dist-upgrade over aptitude?
[17:24] <micahg> LLStarks: idk
[17:25] <micahg> you could do sudo aptitude upgrade and look for the right solution I suppose
[17:41] <asac> ccheney: thanks
[17:41] <asac> get in to some stable place (where it doenst get overridden on next )
[17:43] <ccheney> http://people.canonical.com/~ccheney/libsoup2.4-backport.tar.bz2
[17:46] <asac> ccheney: whtas that?
[17:46] <asac> i cannot run debuild -S on it to produce something debdiffable ;)
[17:47] <asac> ccheney: what can i do with that thing?
[17:47] <asac> make isnt working either ;)
[17:47] <asac> e.g. seems to be not preconfigured
[18:06] <ccheney> asac: run autoreconf then build
[18:08] <ccheney> or i can generate a debdiff against hardy if you would like
[18:28] <armin76> [reed]: did you read what i said?
[18:42] <fta> kenvandine, the Indicator Applet is completely broken with/for evolution
[18:43] <kenvandine> describe completely broken
[18:43] <kenvandine> sometimes it crashes for me
[18:43] <kenvandine> when evo exits
[18:43] <kenvandine> otherwise it is working
[18:43] <kenvandine> and i think that bug is fixed in today's uploads
[18:50] <fta> kenvandine, http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/indicator-applet-and-evo.ogv
[18:51] <fta> hm, chromium has a nice embedded player now ):
[18:51] <fta> :)
[18:55] <fta> kenvandine, and evo is no longer in the menus :(
[18:56] <kenvandine> fta, what version of dbusmenu?
[18:56] <kenvandine> dpkg -l |grep libdbusmenu
[18:57] <fta> $ dpkg -l | grep libdbusmenu | cut -c-80
[18:57] <fta> rc  libdbusmenu-glib0                                       0.2.1-0ubuntu1
[18:57] <fta> ii  libdbusmenu-glib1                                       0.2.3-0ubuntu3
[18:57] <fta> rc  libdbusmenu-gtk0                                        0.2.1-0ubuntu1
[18:57] <fta> ii  libdbusmenu-gtk1                                        0.2.3-0ubuntu3
[18:58] <kenvandine> ok, that bug was fixed in 0.2.3-0ubuntu3
[18:58] <kenvandine> what version of evolution-indicator?
[18:59] <fta> 0.2.6-0ubuntu4
[18:59] <kenvandine> ok
[18:59] <kenvandine> weird
[19:00] <kenvandine> can you make sure there are no files left around from the 0.2.1-0ubuntu1 versions?
[19:02] <fta> i see there's a new kernel, so maybe a reboot will help
[19:02] <kenvandine> i just hope we don't still have upgrade issues
[19:02] <kenvandine> how about indicator-messages?
[19:02] <kenvandine> what version
[19:03] <fta> i mean, a desktop restart will probably help, but i only restart when there's a new kernel
[19:03] <kenvandine> oh
[19:03] <kenvandine> ok
[19:03] <fta> 0.3.1-0ubuntu2
[19:03] <kenvandine> yeah, you would have needed a restart since monday
[19:04] <fta>  20:03:49 up 3 days, 20:48,  7 users,  load average: 0.09, 0.18, 0.14
[19:05] <fta> had to restart, as X lost both kernel & mouse and was unkillable
[19:35] <fta> kenvandine, gwibber crashed on restart
[19:35] <fta> dbus
[19:36] <fta> Title: gwibber crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()
[19:37] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/374171/
[21:58] <BUGabundo> micahg: what did you make me do :\
[21:58] <micahg> BUGabundo: nothing...
[21:58] <micahg> BUGabundo: just asking about me :)
[21:58] <BUGabundo> :p
[21:58] <BUGabundo> in just a few minutes, u managed to due what MANY asked for a long time
[21:59] <BUGabundo> remove dup posting
[21:59] <micahg> cool :)
[22:00] <micahg> BUGabundo: does that mean you'll be posting more to keep your dent count up? :)
[22:00] <BUGabundo> nope
[22:00] <BUGabundo> check the stats
[22:00] <BUGabundo> macno.com/denticator
[22:01] <micahg> BUGabundo: domain for sale?
[22:01] <BUGabundo> sorry
[22:01] <BUGabundo> .org
[22:03] <micahg> you're tops :)
[22:04]  * micahg is 862
[22:04] <BUGabundo> been for a long time
[22:05] <BUGabundo> and even not posting so much to identica
[22:05] <BUGabundo> I know im secure for a few months
[22:05] <BUGabundo> although edy is fast
[22:05] <BUGabundo> my OMB account is in 20 or so
[22:05] <BUGabundo> check it
[22:06] <micahg> BUGabundo: #34 on braindbirf
[22:06] <micahg> *brainbird
[22:12] <BUGabundo> calm days
[22:18] <[reed]> armin76: um
[22:18] <[reed]> what bug# again?
[22:53] <[reed]> how do I remove a remote bug watch from a bug (specifically, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/233901)?
[22:53] <micahg> hmm
[22:54] <micahg> I get an error
[22:54] <micahg> nm
[22:54] <[reed]> the one to 178685 needs to be removed
[22:54] <[reed]> I dunno how to do that
[22:55] <micahg> [reed]: comments are imported so only an admin can do it
[22:55] <micahg> [reed]: I'm going to work with someone tomorrow hopefully to fix this issue
[22:55] <[reed]> ugh
[22:55] <micahg> you're already subscribed to the bug 499113
[22:56] <micahg> [reed]: it's a huge problem
[22:56] <[reed]> I'm going to disable launchpad's account in bmo
[22:56] <micahg> [reed]: gmb said he'd look into it tomorow and I'll try to help...
[22:56] <micahg> [reed]: maybe that's best until this is fixed
[22:57] <micahg> [reed]: let me check with them if that'll mess anything up in LP
[22:57] <[reed]> ok
[23:34] <BUGabundo> quick OT poll: what topics would you like to see mention or would talk about in a introduction to Open Source desktop apps, running of a Ubuntu Karmic install ? . feel free to PVT me with ideas