[18:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 12 18:00:02 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[18:00] <pleia2> welcome everyone, who all is here for the meeting? :)
[18:00] <Cheri703> o/
[18:00] <nigelb> o/
[18:00] <pleia2> Agenda: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/Agenda
[18:01] <pleia2> #topic -R Blueprint
[18:01] <pleia2> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/community-r-ubuntu-women-project-goals
[18:01] <Pendulum> o/
[18:02] <pleia2> so Emma is continuing to do the follow-up interviews, latest one is of czajkowski http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2013/01/ubuntu-women-full-circle-follow-up-with-laura-czajkowski/
[18:02] <Deindre> o/
[18:02] <pleia2> Deindre and Dolasilla recently did a classroom event talking about UbuntuWomen-it: http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2013/02/irc-presentation-of-ubuntuwomen-it-summary/
[18:03] <AlanBell> o/
[18:03] <pleia2> the rest of our blueprint items are covered in the other meeting topics, so we'll continue on to those unless there are any comments about these things :)
[18:04] <pleia2> I also would like to mention that we haven't had a Full Circle Magazine article from the team in a few months, if anyone wants to help find people to interview or topics to cover, details about that can be found here: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/FullCircleMagazine
[18:05] <pleia2> #topic U-W Contest
[18:05] <pleia2> Cheri703 and Pendulum: the floor is yours!
[18:05] <Cheri703> Alright
[18:05] <Cheri703> So, the basics are: We are going to do an online scavenger hunt!
[18:06] <Cheri703> Current plan is to be 20 questions and set up a form so we can try to standardize responses.
[18:06] <Cheri703> Contest will kick off on March 8th, International Women's Day, and run til March 18th, that way it gives folks one full week plus a weekend to work on it
[18:06] <pleia2> what kinds of questions?
[18:07] <Cheri703> We're hoping to get 2-3 more volunteers to help with the project, because we're hoping to have a variety of Ubuntu related and Women (/women in foss/women in tech/women something) related questions, and the thought is that if we have 4-5 people total (myself and Pendulum + others), then each person can be responsible for coming up with AND checking a set number of questions
[18:07] <Pendulum> It'll be a mix of questions about where to find specific info and fun ones (i.e. "Find an Ubuntu Forums member with 3 "z"s in their username")
[18:08] <pleia2> cool
[18:08] <Cheri703> If some questions have multiple answers, that's why it'll be easier to have person A responsible for questions 1-4, so all they need to worry about is those questions on all entries, then person B takes care of 5-9, etc
[18:09] <Cheri703> no one has to confirm answers for ALL the questions
[18:09] <Deindre> nice
[18:09] <nigelb> sounds like fun
[18:10] <Cheri703> As far as prizes, we'll take the people who have answered all questions correctly, then put them into a random drawing. We're still discussing how many prizes and exactly WHAT the prizes will be.
[18:10] <Cheri703> BAM, you 3 indicated interest, you've volunteered! ;) j/k
[18:10] <pleia2> Emma from System76 signed up for helping with prizes, and we can reach out to Ubuntu User again
[18:11] <Cheri703> We are hoping to have the participation limited to women, but a. how do we try to enforce that, and b. I can only imagine the flood of "OMG UW IS SEXXXXXXIST" comments, so...we'll see
[18:11] <Cheri703> Any thoughts on the topic are MORE than welcome
[18:11] <pleia2> (and I'm already marked down as helping with this in the blueprint ;))
[18:11] <Cheri703> ok, awesome ;)
[18:12] <Cheri703> Pendulum: did I miss anything?
[18:12] <Pendulum> We're hoping to have everything set to start the contest on March 8 (International Women's Day)
[18:13] <pleia2> I suggest putting a call to the mailing list asking for volunteers, stressing that it's a great first thing to work on for someone looking to get involved with Ubuntu (so, don't be shy!)
[18:13] <Pendulum> The idea is to give them about 10 days so there are 2 weekends in there, but it's not too much time
[18:13] <Pendulum> them = participants
[18:14] <pleia2> I think it's ok, and as with previous contests, we can extend it if needed
[18:14] <pleia2> and maybe write a few teasers in the week leading up to it to build excitement?
[18:15] <Cheri703> yeah, that leads us into the next topic actually
[18:15] <pleia2> shall we move on?
[18:15] <Cheri703> I think that covered everything
[18:16] <pleia2> great, thanks for your work Cheri703 and Pendulum, this sounds great :)
[18:16] <pleia2> #topic Career Days
[18:16] <Cheri703> Our first career days of 2013 will be Laura Czajkowski on March 1
[18:16] <Cheri703> that's one week before the contest starts, so we can cross promote :D
[18:17] <Cheri703> there are a bunch of people who volunteered at UDS and I will be reaching out to everyone to get sessions scheduled
[18:17] <Cheri703> the time is still to be determined for the March 1 session, but that'll be on upcoming announcements
[18:18] <Cheri703> aaaand that's all I have on that
[18:18] <pleia2> thanks Cheri703
[18:19] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[18:19] <pleia2> anyone else have anything they wish to discuss or comment on? :)
[18:19] <pleia2> Ubuntu Developer Summit (UDS) sponsorship hasn't opened yet, but we'll be mailing list list once it does, it's in Oakland again, May 6-9: http://uds.ubuntu.com/
[18:20] <pleia2> I don't think any of the leadership team will be attending :(
[18:20] <Cheri703> awesome :D
[18:20] <Cheri703> I might be able to! if I get sponsored!
[18:20] <pleia2> that would be good!
[18:20] <Cheri703> I am pushing my move back to June, so...possible
[18:21] <pleia2> I'll be out of reach on my honeymoon, so I won't even be able to participate remotely
[18:21] <Cheri703> pfft, you can take a break from honeymoon for ONE UW session ;)
[18:21] <Cheri703> COME ON PLEIA2 WHERE IS YOUR COMMITMENT?!
[18:22] <Cheri703> hehe
[18:22] <Deindre> honeymoon is ONE in a lifetime! take a break from UW and enjoy Honeymoon :P
[18:22] <pleia2> hehe
[18:23] <Cheri703> alright, I have nothing else productive to contribute :)
[18:23] <pleia2> hehe
[18:23] <pleia2> ok, I think that pretty much wraps things up then
[18:24] <pleia2> sounds like we're on track with everything!
[18:24] <pleia2> thanks everyone :)
[18:24] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[18:24] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 12 18:24:56 2013 UTC.
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-women-project/2013/ubuntu-women-project.2013-02-12-18.00.moin.txt
[18:24] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-women-project/2013/ubuntu-women-project.2013-02-12-18.00.html
[18:24] <Cheri703> \o/
[18:25] <Cheri703> woo for being on track
[18:25] <Deindre> Cheri703: nice idea with interview!
[18:26] <Cheri703> hmm?
[18:27] <Deindre> Cheri703: the project you've presented :)
[18:30] <Tm_T> I'm not late
[18:31] <Deindre> Tm_T: meeting is over :)
[18:31] <Tm_T> I saw (:


[09:26] <rvba> jtv: btw, did you see my remarks on https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/report-foreign-dhcp/+merge/205430 ?
[09:28] <jtv> No, hadn't seen those.  I'll start a new branch.
[10:22] <rvba> jtv: not done yet with the review but I published a first batch of comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/api-list-networks/+merge/205525
[10:28] <jtv> OK thanks
[13:18] <rvba> gmb: please consider the plea I make on https://code.launchpad.net/~gmb/maas/json-schema-part-1/+merge/205305/comments/481195
[13:19] <gmb> rvba: Hadn't seen it. Thanks
[13:19] <gmb> (And sorry)
[13:19] <rvba> gmb: I just added it, I was late to the party unfortunately.
[13:20] <rvba> gmb: this time you're lucky, a new package hasn't been built yet.
[13:20] <rvba> :)
[13:20] <gmb> :)
[13:20] <gmb> rvba: What do I need to do to the packaging branch to make it good?
[13:21] <rvba> gmb: shake it until it calls for mercy.
[13:21] <gmb> lol
[13:21] <rvba> gmb: more seriously, just add the new dependency in debian/control
[13:22] <gmb> rvba: Okay, cool.
[13:22] <rvba> gmb: it's in main already so you're all good
[13:23] <gmb> rvba: Which package should depend on python-jsonschema, d'you think?
[13:24] <rvba> gmb: hum, I haven't looked at your branch really, let me have a look…
[13:24] <rvba> I'm guessing the region…
[13:24] <gmb> Well, it's all under maasserver atm.
[13:24] <rvba> gmb: you're using it from the region code, so the region package.
[13:24] <gmb> rvba: maas-region-controller-min?  Looks like sysctl lacks a --system parameter in 12.04. How annoying.
[16:07] <gmb> tomixxx3: One sec...
[16:07] <tomixxx3> gmb: kk
[16:11] <gmb> tomixxx3: Okay, so you should be okay to just delete / comment out line 6 of that script. (sysctl --system).
[16:11] <tomixxx3> gmb: ok, and is it ok if i run this script before maas-installation?
[16:11] <gmb> tomixxx3: Shouldn't matter, but when I tested it I already had MAAS installed, so YMMV.
[16:12] <tomixxx3> gmb: and a final important question: does this script guruantee that no dhcp messages from the maas-server are sent out of eth1?
[16:13] <gmb> tomixxx3: More like it doesn't make any changes that would allow them out on eth1. I can five you a line that will explicitly block them if you'd like.
[16:13] <tomixxx3> gmb: would be nice. dhcp message should only travel to eth0 - to the private secure network
[16:14] <gmb> tomixxx3: Right, but as long as MAAS is only configured to do DHCP on eth0, you won't have a problem.
[16:14] <tomixxx3> gmb: ok
[16:14] <gmb> tomixxx3: Which is really quite hard to get wrong.
[16:15] <tomixxx3> gmb: after executing the script, the terminal holds at line "DNS Server [<IP_ADDRESS>]: DNS Server: <IP_ADDRESS>." should it not get finsihed and prompt me the input-line again?
[16:15] <tomixxx3> i have typed STRG+c to get out of the script, so far
[16:16] <gmb> tomixxx3: The script *is* prompting you. It's prompting you to enter the address of the DNS server to forward any requests it can't serve.
[16:16] <tomixxx3> gmb: ahh
[16:16] <gmb> Sorry that wasn't terribly clear.
[16:17] <tomixxx3> dns server is  the ip of the maas-server, i guess?
[16:19] <gmb> tomixxx3: No, it's the DNS server to forward requests to if the MAAS server can't serve them. E.g. MAAS server doesn't necessarily know about "google.com" so if the node requests something from "google.com" the MAAS DNS server will forward the request up to the DNS server you specify.
[16:20] <tomixxx3> gmb: ah ok, i have 3 dns server addresses i guess i will take simply one of them :D
[16:20] <gmb> Yep.
[16:20] <gmb> Should work.
[16:21] <tomixxx3> it responses "/etc/bind/named.conf.options: No such file or direcotry. bind9: unrecognized service"
[16:24] <tomixxx3> k, i guess i have to install bind9
[16:25] <gmb> tomixxx3: See above under "YMMV"
[16:26] <tomixxx3> did not know the phrase "YMMV" so far :-)
[16:28] <gmb> Your Mileage May Vary :)
[16:29] <tomixxx3> kk, script processed now
[16:30] <tomixxx3> gmb: ty for your help so far!
[16:32] <rvba> gmb: To deploy Trusty nodes, you had to manually import Trusty's daily ephemerals right?
[20:17] <smoser> who is able to fix http://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/troubleshooting.html#debugging-ephemeral-image
[20:30] <bjf> i'm trying to power cycle a node via maas-cli and Sentry Switched CDU. i can see on the CDU the state is not changing, the logs in /var/log/maas don't seem to be of use for this


[00:05] <jgould> Greeting Gilbert
[00:06] <Unit193> Howdy, gilbert
[00:07] <jgould> Unit193: I think its safe to assume that you are not at panera...
[00:07] <Cheri703> we got done a while ago
[00:07] <Cheri703> ours starts at 5
[00:07] <Cheri703> ish
[00:08] <jgould> You'll start early up there...
[00:09] <jgould> gilbert: are you at Panera?
[00:10] <jgould> How many people did you have show up, Cheri703?
[00:10] <Cheri703> 7
[00:10] <jgould> Not bad
[00:11] <jgould> One downside to this is that this is my first UH, so I don't kno wwho I'm looking for
[00:14] <jgould> If anyone else is here, I'm sitting in the back corner wearing a red OSU polo
[00:19] <jgould> Also, why am I slepey?
[00:19] <Unit193> jgould: Hold up a huge Ubuntu sign!
[00:20] <jgould> I does not have one
[00:21] <Unit193> Hold up your Mac with the logo on display! ;)
[00:22] <jgould> I does not have the logo...  Gilbert's hostmane deosn't match what I'm getting fro here
[00:23] <jgould> but I also knwo that doesn't mean anythign
[00:26] <jgould> or did everyone, out of force of habit, go to the location on campus?
[00:28] <Unit193> skrappjaw: Is testdisk what your looking for? (I could PM you the apt-cache show ;) )
[00:31] <jgould> Now I'm wondering if I'm the only one here...
[00:31] <skrappjaw> ok
[00:31] <skrappjaw> cool
[00:32] <skrappjaw> i like the apt-cache search.
[00:33] <skrappjaw> thats cool.
[00:35]  * jgould is bored
[00:35] <jgould> and someone has mail...
[00:51] <gilbert> what up
[00:52] <skrappjaw> sappinen
[00:53] <skrappjaw> Gilbert: i ended up deleting the e-mail with the voting instructions
[00:53] <skrappjaw> can ya help a brotha out?
[00:56] <canthus13> Whee... Got openbox working in ubuntu... sort of. Gotta figure out how to get the tasktray working, how to get tint2 to start automagically....
[00:56] <canthus13> skrappjaw: what's your email? I can forward it to you.
[00:56] <skrappjaw><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:57] <skrappjaw> thanks brotha
[00:57] <canthus13> no prob.
[00:58] <canthus13> Done.. the second email is the correct one.
[01:16] <dmcglone1> Hi all
[01:32] <Unit193> dmcglone1: Glad Gnome3 is in Onriric?
[01:34] <skrappjaw> Unit193: What was that forum you were talking about earlier that you mod?
[01:36] <Unit193> I help out on Zenix the Debian respin
[01:37] <Unit193> skrappjaw: http://zenix-os.net
[01:37] <skrappjaw> thnx
[01:39]  * canthus13 slowly figuring out how to configure openbox to do what he wants. :)
[01:42] <Unit193> canthus13: Going with Ubuntu + Openbox + Tint2 ?
[01:54] <canthus13> Yup.
[02:07] <Unit193> I thought you would like Awesome...
[02:09] <canthus13> not really.  I don't like tiling window managers. :/
[02:09]  * canthus13 gave it a shot... but it just didn't feel right.
[02:11] <TheErk> Hola
[02:22] <jgould> ok...  Stay awake!
[02:45] <dmcglone1> Unit193: Ah cool!
[02:46]  * dmcglone1 is playing mortal kombat :-)
[02:46] <gilbert> the new mk?
[02:46] <dmcglone1> Deadly Aliance
[02:47] <TheErk> Get over here!
[02:47] <dmcglone1> On my way ;-)
[02:47] <gilbert> i just sold that back to gamestop...hadn't played it in years...didn't really compare to the original 2
[02:48] <dmcglone1> gilbert: I agree. it's freakin hard to hit them combos
[02:50] <dmcglone1> with my back out, I think I've played video games more than I ever have. My damn thumb is sore
[02:57] <dmcglone1> I've still got Midnight Club dub edition
[02:57] <dmcglone1> love that game
[03:17] <skrappjaw> rawr....
[03:25] <dmcglone1> anybody know what chipset the broadcom 4313 uses?
[03:27] <canthus13> ....?
[03:27] <canthus13> Broadcom 4313 *IS* the chipset.
[03:27] <canthus13> It uses the STA drivers.
[03:27] <dmcglone1> Ah
[03:28] <dmcglone1> I'm wondering if aircrack-ng works with the broadcom
[03:36] <canthus13> dmcglone: It does.... sort of.
[03:36] <canthus13> dmcglone: you need the madwifi drivers.
[03:37] <canthus13> Your best bet for that would be to use backtrack. the drivers should be preconfigured already.
[03:38] <canthus13> you really don't wanna fight with wireless drivers on your main system if the default drivers don't support injection and monitor. (STA drivers don't.)
[04:05] <dmcglone1> something weird happened :-/
[04:06] <dmcglone1> canthus13: know of any other ways I can test the security on my network?
[04:13] <canthus13> Plastic explosives?
[04:14] <canthus13> seriously, though.. just boot with a Backtrack LiveCD to run aircrack.
[04:14] <canthus13> what kind of security are you using?
[04:17] <dmcglone1> I'm using......
[04:17] <dmcglone1> hang on
[04:18] <dmcglone1> wpa-psk
[04:18] <dmcglone1> wpa-psk + wpa-psk2 actually
[04:19] <Unit193> Howdy, skellat/SMK
[04:20] <Cheri703> o/ skellat, others ;)
[04:20]  * Cheri703 finished her 4th book in 3 days earlier, probably going to start/finish 5th tonight as well
[04:20] <canthus13> dmcglone1: As long as you're using a decent password, it's secure.
[04:21] <canthus13> dmcglone1: Meaning random characters, at least 12 characters long. (20 would be best)
[04:21] <dmcglone1> LOL and what would decent constitute as?
[04:22] <Unit193> dmcglone1: Anything you'll never remember
[04:22] <skellat> dmcglone1: Something that looks like line noise.  Download fldigi, set it in RTTY receive mode, and whistle off-key into a microphone to generate such
[04:22] <Unit193> - Your wifes B-day
[04:22] <dmcglone1> heh, I'd go crazy. I already forget the smallest things, no way could I remember a 20 character random password... LOL
[04:22] <canthus13> dmcglone1: Just make something up, then tape it to the bottom of your router.
[04:22] <skellat> canthus13: But that presumes resistance to burglary!
[04:23] <canthus13> skellat: You've got bigger problems if you're burgled.
[04:23] <skellat> canthus13: True
[04:23] <canthus13> dmcglone1: If someone robs your house, change your wireless key, assuming your router wasn't stolen.
[04:23] <Unit193> Like "Where IS my router"
[04:24] <dmcglone1> yeah
[04:24] <Cheri703> meh, not going to read that one, thought it was part of a series, it's an off-shoot of the series
[04:24] <Cheri703> canthus13: or they just RESET it
[04:24] <canthus13> Cheri703: true.
[04:25] <dmcglone1> I just thought that I'd mess with aircrack to see just how it works. Looks like I'll never know
[04:26] <dmcglone1> I've never attempted to crack my own stuff, thought it would be fun nontheless
[04:26] <skellat> That's too frequently how people in Ashtabula County seek permanent Internet access
[04:27] <skellat> The most common question I see come up is how to slurp somebody else's access without authorization
[04:28] <dmcglone1> skellat you mean they use others internet?
[04:28] <skellat> Far too frequently
[04:28] <dmcglone1> I see. makes me wonder if anybody's using mine
[04:28] <skellat> That's why I have WPA-PSK and MAC filtering in place
[04:29] <dmcglone1> I don't have to worry about a random user, I live on a court, and nobody comes up this street unless they live here or are visiting
[04:29] <dmcglone1> and my neighbors are too freakin dumb to know how to even work a computer... LOL
[04:29] <skellat> Excellent.
[04:30] <dmcglone1> so I'm pretty safe
[04:30] <dmcglone1> haha
[04:30] <skellat> Not here.  We've got knuckleheads trying to break records in digging weak microwave signals out of background noise just so they don't have to pay for service.
[04:31] <skellat> Who also feel it is their God-given right to use any unsecured WiFi out there regardless of consequences.
[04:31] <dmcglone1> thats crazy
[04:31] <skellat> No, that's Ashtabula County at large
[04:31] <dmcglone1> I used to not use a password and only use MAC filtering
[04:32] <skellat> As long as the MAC isn't spoofed, that works
[04:32] <dmcglone1> but I got tired of adding machines when someone wanted to bring their computer over
[04:33] <dmcglone1> it got tiresome so I just went back to using a password
[04:33] <skellat> I don't have that problem with family visiting.  Any iPwns let alone other WiFi-cable mobile devices are already registered.  Access isn't always granted, mind you.
[04:34] <canthus13> wow. Openbox uses about 10-12% less ram than Gnome.
[04:34] <skellat> canthus13: That might be why CrunchBang uses it
[04:35] <dmcglone1> I have a couple friends and family who bring their computers over and I didn't want to leave their MAC's on my router
[04:35] <canthus13> MAC filtering is pointless.
[04:35] <dmcglone1> why so canthus13?
[04:35] <canthus13> I can snag a less common mac that associates with a particular AP within a few hours and spoof that.
[04:36] <dmcglone1> but I thought MAC's were unique?
[04:36] <skellat> Nope
[04:36] <canthus13> You wouldn't know any different if you got bumped off... you'd just figure your router hiccuped.
[04:36] <canthus13> dmcglone1: they are... but they're changeable.
[04:37] <skellat> That's why suppressing SSID broadcast helps as well as changing the SSID and password every so often
[04:37] <canthus13> skellat: ...nope.
[04:37] <skellat> canthus13: Go ahead
[04:37] <canthus13> the password is the only protection. I can get your SSID by watching the frames.
[04:37] <canthus13> even if your router doesn't broadcast SSID, your laptop includes the SSID in the frame headers.
[04:37] <skellat> canthus13: Exactly
[04:38] <dmcglone1> but if they are changeable, wouldn't you have to get in to change the MAC in the first place to gain access?
[04:39] <canthus13> dmcglone1: No. I just capture your wireless traffic for a few hours and filter out the unique MAC addresses that associate with your router.  from there, I just apply one of those MAC addresses to my wireless NIC and your router has no idea that I'm not who I say I am.
[04:39] <skellat> Bingo
[04:39] <dmcglone1> Ah Ok
[04:39] <skellat> That's why the machines I truly worry about have hard line connections
[04:40] <skellat> And why Payment Card Industry standards still go medieval when wireless anything is potentially considered in a retail situation where credit cards come into play.
[04:40] <dmcglone1> Interesting, I should look into that
[04:41] <dmcglone1> what would be the best way to see if anyone is using your wireless internet?
[04:41] <canthus13> For all practical purposes, though, at this point WPA is good enough with a strong password.
[04:42] <dmcglone1> my router has a few things, but I don't know if I should trust it
[04:42] <canthus13> dmcglone1: wireshark.. you can see who is associating with your network.
[04:42] <canthus13> your router doesn't really do a very good job of knowing who is connected to it.
[04:42] <dmcglone1> I kinda figured that :-)
[04:42] <canthus13> dmcglone1: ...of course, you have to know how to use wireshark effectively to do that.
[04:43] <dmcglone1> I could learn :-)
[04:44] <canthus13> the bottom line here is this:  If you use WPA with at least a 12 character random password, nobody is going to bother to crack it.  Even with top-end equipment (triple ATI GPUs or somesuch), it would take weeks to crack.
[04:45] <dmcglone1> cool!
[04:45] <canthus13> Now this will probably change in the next few years, but at this point brute-forcing a strong WPA passphrase isn't worth the effort in most cases.
[04:45] <dmcglone1> makes me feel at ease now :-)
[04:45] <skellat> Even though news had come out about using Amazon EC2 to rent processing power to do it, that trades the cost of time for the cost of money
[04:46] <Unit193> Because they can just go next door where they use WEP
[04:46] <canthus13> skellat: All that does is use a massive dictionary attack.
[04:46] <canthus13> Unit193: Or crack the idiot who used 'secretpassword' for his WPA key.
[04:46] <dmcglone1> LOL canthus13
[04:46] <skellat> canthus13: Yes.  Brute force still sometimes works wonders.
[04:46]  * Unit193 Needs to scan for WEP APs
[04:47] <dmcglone1> that was my 'secretpassword'
[04:47] <canthus13> dmcglone1: You think it's funny.  I reset email passwords all day long..  I'm going to have to remove the TTR73 from the main SSH computer...
[04:48] <paultag> I am, actually :)
[04:48] <skellat> Ah, paultag has encountered the joys of electronic music making...
[04:48] <paultag> Just wanted to practice some keyboard. I just got done with guitar, bass and accordion
[04:48] <canthus13> Unit193: I'm looking forward to 3+ mile range. :)
[04:48] <paultag> skellat: yeah, I usually stick with devoted hardware
[04:48] <dmcglone1> damn man you a one man band!
[04:48] <Unit193> canthus13: Wow.....
[04:49] <paultag> skellat: but goddamnit all I don't have a real piano here
[04:49] <canthus13> Unit193: more, if I put the antenna on the roof. :)
[04:49] <skellat> paultag: Some day I will migrate most recording operations to analog, physical hardware.  We're not there yet but we're getting close.
[04:49] <dmcglone1> I practiced guitar this morning :-)
[04:49] <skellat> paultag: Define "real piano"
[04:49] <paultag> skellat: all my recording stuff is devoted hardware, I do everything on that then send the mixdown over
[04:49] <paultag> skellat: something that has strings and weighted keys that hit them nicely :)
[04:49] <Unit193> canthus13: You going to sit up there too? Once you get it, you'll find that it doesn't work with BT ;) (I'm sure you checked)
[04:49]  * dmcglone1 has a piano
[04:50] <canthus13> Unit193: ...? Sure it does.
[04:50] <canthus13> Not the N model...
[04:50] <paultag> dmcglone1: damnit, man. I need to play to keep my figers from getting fat
[04:50] <dmcglone1> I've got a keyboard also, but never ever play it
[04:50] <Unit193> canthus13: Just saying, with your good luck and all...
[04:50] <paultag> I should get a real keyboard.
[04:50] <dmcglone1> paultag: your welcome to come play it any time :-)
[04:50] <paultag> dmcglone1: :)
[04:50] <canthus13> Unit193: It works fine.. believe me, I researched carefully. :)  It does suffer from the channel -1 bug, but that's easy enough to get around.
[04:51] <dmcglone1> paultag: what did you practice on the guitar today?
[04:51] <Unit193> canthus13: Sounds like you will be having some REAL fun with that... Care to checkout around here? ;)
[04:51] <paultag> dmcglone1: nothing of substance. Just getting used to it. I found one in my basement, so I'm learning chords and such. I play bass.  I could try and record some of that song for shits on my crappy webcam as well
[04:57] <dmcglone1> yeah, I just thought I would give it a try and see how it sounded
[04:57] <skellat> Some humor to close out the 1st of June: http://m.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/18/bofh_2008_episode_25/
[04:57] <dmcglone1> I made a couple bloopers there
[04:58] <dmcglone1> once I got to the verse riff, I couldn't figure the correct settings, so I just said f-it
[04:59] <dmcglone1> Piano is my favorite instrument though. Meatloaf , Elton John and Billy  Joel are my brothers!!! LOL
[05:01] <skellat> 0001 hours...goodnight y'all...
[05:16] <dmcglone1> well I'm out, night everyone :-)
[05:17] <Unit193> Marked at 00:17
[05:17] <Unit193> :D
[05:33] <canthus13> Cheri703: http://www.blargh.com/
[05:33] <Cheri703> :D
[06:47] <Unit193> G'night!
[14:32] <Derath-S1vr> Hi all!
[14:34] <Derath-Srvr> Woot! Got a new device on my network, got my ports changed, and other good things are happening!
[15:58] <thafreak> Anyone play with zim desktop wiki?
[16:00] <Derath-Srvr> Can't say that I have...
[16:00] <thafreak> It's pretty slick....
[16:01] <thafreak> the wiki syntax is slightly different than I'm used to, but in general, it makes a nice little brain dump
[16:01] <thafreak> you can "attach" files and links etc....
[16:02] <thafreak> it all gets stored as plain text and well whatever files you attached, in a folder, which can be version controlled
[16:02] <thafreak> we'll see how well it works though when I start filling the thing up
[16:04] <Derath-Srvr> We
[16:04] <Derath-Srvr> err
[16:04] <Derath-Srvr> We're using Confluence here at work
[16:05] <thafreak> is it web based, or a desktop app?
[16:15] <Derath-Srvr> web
[16:17] <Derath-Srvr> Ah... appears to be closed source... or rather paid software... looks like $10 for 10 users...
[16:17] <Derath-Srvr> http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/
[16:17] <Derath-Srvr> http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence/pricing.jsp Looks like Non-profits and open Source can use it for free
[16:18] <thafreak> Yeah, I've heard of that...I was looking for a desktop/text based solution....something I could grep through over ssh in a pinch...
[16:18] <Derath-Srvr> Ah
[17:01]  * jgould grumbles
[17:06] <jgould> Fucking POS Networking gear
[17:11] <canthus13> Point of Sale?
[17:14] <jgould> Piece of shit
[17:15] <paultag> jgould: it was joke
[17:17] <canthus13> :)

[17:17] <jgould> :P
[17:17] <jgould> I've never had the option to turn the hold music off before...
[17:18]  * Derath-Srvr smirks
[17:18] <canthus13> nice...
[17:19] <jgould> RIM's music isn't bad...   I dont' need the same thing open in three tabs...
[18:18]  * jgould headdesks
[18:18] <skellat> jgould: Already?
[18:29] <jgould> Yes
[18:41] <canthus13> jgould: Shouldn't take that long to troubleshoot it.
[18:43] <Cheri703> o.O http://consumerist.com/2011/06/boy-wishes-he-hadnt-sold-his-kidney-for-an-ipad-2.html
[18:45] <skellat> Cheri703: Thankfully organ sales remain illegal in the US
[18:45] <Cheri703> yeah, still ridiculous, AND just because it's illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen
[18:46] <deejoe> speeding and smoking dope, for example
[18:46] <skellat> Yep
[18:47] <deejoe> All Hail The Market!
[18:55] <skellat> Hunh.  I didn't pay for overnight shipping on this order but FedEx just rolled up with an overnight shipment.
[18:57] <canthus13> For an iPad2?   I'd have held out for something a little better than that!
[18:58] <canthus13> skellat: The bill will arrive tomorrow.
[18:59] <deejoe> I think what this says is that the practice is common, and probably done a lot more for more dire circumstances.
[19:02] <canthus13> deejoe: At least he got paid for it...
[19:02] <canthus13> Coulda woken up in a bathtub full of ice with a gaping hole in his side...
[19:07] <canthus13> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4224506
[19:20]  * jgould grumbles agaihn
[19:20]  * Unit193 hates ping timeouts
[19:24]  * jgould hates time pingouts
[19:50]  * canthus13 times Unit193's pings.
[19:52] <jgould> that sounds dirty
[19:53] <canthus13> :)
[19:54] <jgould> still on with RIM...
[20:01] <jgould> Wish I could do some writing...     I just ordered a new phone
[22:26] <Unit193> What one?
[22:26]  * Unit193 doesn't have a phone... Just Google Voice
[22:29] <jgould> The LG Pheonix
[22:30] <Cheri703> anyone have something like this they would loan to me: http://www.dremel.com/en-us/Tools/Pages/ToolDetail.aspx?pid=Multi-Max
[22:30] <Unit193> webupd8 is so much better than omgubuntu... (What's going on at OMG anyway¿ Anyone follow?)
[22:33] <jrgifford> unit193 Google Voice is good. That's what I use.
[22:35] <jgould> I use Google Voice when I need a landline
[22:37] <jgould> jrgifford: how do you know @sceryth?
[22:38] <jrgifford> jgould: I met him through some twitter homeschool thing.
[22:39] <jgould> I met him through Julnowrimo
[22:39] <jrgifford> Thats his kinda thing alright haha
[22:39] <jgould> Heh
[22:39] <jgould> Yep
[22:40] <jrgifford> I did NaNoWriMo last year. He roped me into it.
[22:40] <jgould> How did you do?
[22:40] <jrgifford> I think i got to... 15K?
[22:40] <jrgifford> So not very well haha
[22:40] <jgould> I give you more credit for trying and not hitting 50K than I do for not trying at all
[22:41] <jrgifford> You should try sometime.
[22:41] <jgould> Nano?
[22:42] <jrgifford> Yeah why not?
[22:42] <jgould> I have 6 under my belt, crossed 50K 5 of the attempts
[22:42] <jrgifford> well done. :)
[22:42] <jgould> I'm 0 for 2 on julno... XD
[22:43] <jrgifford> I'm 0 for 0. Don't have time during the summer... XD
[22:44] <Unit193> My sister did it I think...
[22:44] <jgould> you should do it too, Unit
[22:45] <Unit193> I have no chance!
[22:45] <jgould> why?
[22:46] <Unit193> I am no writer! I am very bad at that...
[22:46] <jrgifford> Unit, give it a go. I have a friend who has no chance whatsoever, but she's doing it anyway.  :)
[22:46] <jrgifford> And I'm a horrible writer of fiction. :) I'm more of a technical-how-to writer. :S
[22:47] <jgould> I know a girl that has to go through summer school and she is planning on doing Julno
[22:48] <jgould> My wife thinks that I will switch back to the blackberry
[22:49] <jrgifford> From what?
[22:49] <jgould> The new LG
[22:49] <Unit193> Oh and a nice howdy to you, jrgifford!
[22:50] <jrgifford> the new LG looks cool.
[22:50] <jrgifford> Hello Unit193. :)
[22:53] <jgould> it's got to be better than this damn blackberry
[22:55] <jrgifford> Pretty much everything would be (I think)
[22:55]  * jgould puts a bullet in his mouse
[22:57] <jrgifford> Don't shot your mouse!!
[23:00] <jgould> its broke and doesn't track right
[23:01] <Unit193> Feed it to your dog!
[23:03] <jrgifford> well that's no good.
[23:03] <jrgifford> but you still shouldn't shoot your mouse. i mean, seriously, a mouse is so useful.
[23:03] <jgould> what do I need a mouse for,  I have a commandline
[23:03] <Unit193> Gooooood coffee....
[23:04] <Unit193> jgould: +1!
[23:04] <jgould> Coffee?  Where?
[23:04]  * jrgifford would do IRC from the command line, but can't wrap his head around it
[23:04] <jgould> that's what I do
[23:05]  * Unit193 Does IRC from the CLI! You can start by using Finch!
[23:05] <jgould> my irc session is running on my server
[23:05] <Unit193> Finch = Pidgin for ncurses
[23:05] <Unit193> I need to setup a server to run irssi... I'm using an older computer that connects via wireless...
[23:06] <jrgifford> I can do almost everything from the command line except IRC, Askubuntu stuff and IM.
[23:06] <jgould> I use weechat
[23:06] <jgould> It runs in curses
[23:06] <jrgifford> hm. i'll give it a look.
[23:08] <jrgifford> installing now
[23:08] <Unit193> jrgifford: irssi and weechat are both nice (I would say go for irssi, jgould would tell you weechat) What do you use for IM and askubuntu? Did you try alpine? or Mutt?
[23:10] <jrgifford> askubuntu has to be in a browser. the stack exchange API isn't advanced enough to do that. so i'm stuck using chrome, which is fine.
[23:10] <jrgifford> for IM, i switch between pidgin and empathy, depending on my mood.
[23:10] <jgould> I think trying to do my email in a CLI would drive me insane
[23:10] <jrgifford> jgould, i tried that. didn't work.
[23:10] <jrgifford> at. all.
[23:11] <jgould> I have three email accounts that I use regularly
[23:13] <Unit193> jgould: It's not bad, but I also use thunderbird and gmail
[23:13] <jgould> I just use the web interface for Gmail
[23:13] <Unit193> jrgifford: If you like Pidgin, try running finch in the terminal!
[23:14] <jrgifford> trying to figure out weechat first
[23:14] <jgould> there is a learning curve to weechat
[23:15] <jgould> I had it on the server for a month before I figured out how to make it autoconnect and auto join...
[23:15] <Unit193> How I have irssi, it's almost a gui client (Call me lazy...)
[23:16] <jgould> lazy
[23:16] <jrgifford_> Hello jgould
[23:16] <jgould> Hello
[23:16] <Unit193> jrgifford_: Does this hilight?
[23:16] <jrgifford_> hm. this is interesting. not sure if i like weechat though.
[23:17] <jrgifford_> Unit193 indeed it does.
[23:17] <Unit193> tab complete is sweet!
[23:17] <jgould> I like it becasue I can work off any machine I have
[23:17] <Unit193> Welcome back, canthus13!
[23:17] <jgould> weechat has tab complete, Unit193
[23:18] <Unit193> jgould: Of corse! And SSH + screen +irssi/weechat is so nice!!
[23:18] <jgould> That's how I have it running, Unit193
[23:18] <Unit193> s/corse/course/
[23:18] <jgould> Specifically by issuing screen -x so that I don't have to detach a session first
[23:18] <canthus13> feh.
[23:18] <Unit193> jgould: I had guessed :P SASL?
[23:18] <canthus13> irssi segfaulted. :/
[23:19] <Unit193> screen -rx
[23:19] <canthus13> that's not gonna help when irssi completely crashed... screen was fine.
[23:19]  * canthus13 just had to restart irssi.
[23:19] <Unit193> canthus13: I wasn't talking about you...
[23:19] <canthus13> oh. :)
[23:19] <jgould> This way I can work of of either comptuer at any time and still have hte same thing
[23:20] <jgould> Nope, just 'ssh jgould@claire -t screen -x'
[23:20] <Unit193> jgould: Or some random computer far away :) (KiTTY/PuTTY portable!)
[23:20] <canthus13> bah. I've been ripped off! My fortune cookie had no fortune. :(
[23:20] <jgould> I have that as an alias
[23:20] <jgould> that is claire-remote from my laptop
[23:20] <jgould> I love aliases
[23:22] <jgould> fark... my contacts aren't on my phone
[23:22] <jgould> This is why I hate dealing with tech issues with the phone
[23:23] <jgould> I do *not* care that there are updates... OS 6 has given me no end of greif
[23:24] <jgould> Ok Going back to Ubuntu...
[23:25] <canthus13> Ooo.. this is fun.  http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/vulnerabilities/229500147?cid=sem_edit_security&wc=4
[23:25] <jgould> Is it bad that I just rebooted the Mac from the commandline?
[23:26] <canthus13> It probably goes against all jobsian philosophy. too complex.
[23:26] <canthus13> I'm surprised you were allowed.
[23:26] <jgould> LOL
[23:27] <canthus13> It still amazes me that you can get to a command line on a mac.
[23:27] <jgould> I really should report this bug...
[23:29] <jgould> I guess plugging in the network cable would help...
[23:31] <Unit193> When I'm on windows, I always want that stupid CLI to work better
[23:31] <jgould> I don't consider that a CLI
[23:31] <Unit193> It can do some, but I want it to do more...
[23:32]  * jgould drops it in a meat grinder
[23:32] <canthus13> powershell isn't that bad...
[23:32] <canthus13> not very mature, but it has potential.
[23:33] <jgould> why can't we run Bash?
[23:34] <jrgifford_> because it's Windows, duh. :P
[23:34] <Unit193> cygwin :D
[23:34] <jgould> why would you run that
[23:34] <canthus13> wft?? Why do I have freaking wireshark on my machine here at work? (Actually, in the session I'm logged into on the terminal server...)
[23:35] <jgould> for those of you with android devices, can you sync contact groups down to your phone?
[23:36] <jgould> apparently I ordered freight...
[23:40] <jgould> Going thorough my contacts making sure everything is ok is slow going
[23:41] <Unit193> Can't you export it from your BB into your new one?
[23:41] <jgould> screw that noise.  the new one is android powered
[23:41] <jgould> it'll pull from google
[23:42]  * jrgifford_ is playing around in various IRC clients
[23:43] <jgould> Wonder which one that was
[23:43] <jrgifford> that was irssi. i think i'll stick with xchat. :P
[23:43] <jgould> :(
[23:43] <jgould> actually :'(
[23:44]  * skrappjaw is lurking
[23:44]  * jgould lurks behind skrappjaw
[23:45] <skrappjaw> creeper. :P
[23:45] <jgould> I'm just lurking behind the lurker
[23:45]  * jrgifford will be back later
[23:45] <skrappjaw> I get this vision of some one standing over me though.... So much for lurking. lol
[23:48] <Cheri703> jrgifford: I use quassel
[23:48] <Cheri703> gives the gui of xchat, but the core/client of irssi/screen (if you want it, also available as a monolithic client)
[23:48] <jgould> What the hell...
[23:48] <Cheri703> ?
[23:49] <jgould> the way some of my contacts get screwed up
[23:49] <Cheri703> ah
[23:50] <jgould> Like they lost addresses except for the city state and zip
[23:52] <jgould> I don't know whther to blame the blackberry or the mac
[23:53] <canthus13> THey didn't screw up. It's a new game... Contact Hide-and-go-seek
[23:53] <jgould> Heh


[05:04] <ahoneybun> clivejo: looks like that kdenlive is 16.04.3
[06:17] <acheronuk> ahoneybun: that is from KCI, so it may say 16.04.3+somthing, but it is really latest unstable git.
[13:12] <acheronuk> yofel, santa - was there any decision on what to do about symbols going missing in KCI etc due purely to building with gcc6?
[13:15] <clivejo> think yofel wanted to mark the optional
[13:17] <clivejo> [19:28:31] <santa_> so I think we could follow a better workflow and it's working in parallel for yakkety and xenial and mark the gcc6-only optional symbols as optional=gccinternal
[13:17] <clivejo> or maybe it was santa
[13:22] <acheronuk> clivejo: that's what I recalled being said, but wasn't sure if that was a definite ok on that.
[13:29] <acheronuk> Prime example ^^^^^
[13:29] <acheronuk> +#MISSING: 5.24.0+p16.10+git20160820.1256-0# _ZNK3KJS7JSValue8toStringEPNS_9ExecStateE@Base 5.24.0
[13:30] <acheronuk> No changes in kde git when that went AWOL, and only difference was gcc6 used on the 1st build that went missing
[13:32]  * blaze wants to package some kf5 apps like krename or ktorrent, and fix some issues he found recently but don't have enough time
[13:32] <acheronuk> so in theory would go to (optional=gccinternal)_ZNK3KJS7JSValue8toStringEPNS_9ExecStateE@Base
[13:32] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[14:19] <santa_> acheronuk, clivejo: https://code.launchpad.net/~panfaust/kubuntu-packaging/+git/kjsembed/+merge/302705
[14:19] <santa_> it would be nice if we could get this merge requests at least in git, in order to avoid work duplication
[14:20] <santa_> they were there for days, and note that the affected packages are failing to build in yakketty
[14:29] <santa_> * these merge requests
[14:36] <acheronuk> santa_: oh. nifty timing. I just pushed an equivalent change to test on KCI. May as well let that build now..
[14:37] <acheronuk> double oh. proposed on on 2016-08-11. I don't seem to have an email on that
[14:56] <BluesKaj> have you guys noticed the the update-apt-xapian index runs at almost 100% cpu on Xenail and Yakkety shortly after login. It practically paralyses any other apps that might be running at the time, and it does this on every boot/login to the desktop.Is it absolutely neccessary for apt and muon to update every time I boot in to my OS? This was areported as a bug on 10.04 up to 16.04, but this is the firat time it became so intrusive.
[14:57] <BluesKaj> firat-first
[15:04] <blaze> BluesKaj: try to set updates to "weekly" in Software Settings
[15:06] <santa_> acheronuk: well, your kubuntu_yakkety_archive branch is still *fails* to build from source, and they are other 4 frameworks affatected by the same problem
[15:09] <santa_> and note also that I mentioned these issues more than once here and yet you decided to not include them
[15:11] <BluesKaj> blaze, I don't think that's going to do it the daily setting doesn't prevent the update-apt xapian index from running If I reboot on the same day
[15:12] <santa_> s/to not include them/to not apply my patches/
[15:12] <blaze> BluesKaj: probably that's because you're installing/removing something every session
[15:13] <acheronuk> santa_: well, I don't have an emails on merges for those, and the discussion I recall was not 100% conclusive
[15:14] <acheronuk> so it's not a case of deciding not to, on my part anyway
[15:14] <BluesKaj> blaze, no , not always , sometimes I'm just switching from Xenial to Yakkety and vice versa
[15:15] <santa_> acheronuk: that's the problem, that it was not 100% conclusive ... because *you* all didn't extract a conclusion. but I did
[15:17] <santa_> acheronuk: and my conslusion is: these patches must be included in kubuntu_yakkety_archive; this way you will have something buidable and they also must be merged in kubuntu_unstable
[15:19] <santa_> and if you still have doubts, grab the kubuntu_yakkety_archive, rebuild against yakkety, see how it fails to build from source and check that my patch fixes the problem
[15:20] <santa_> I think that should be pretty conclusive ;)
[15:24] <acheronuk> ahoneybun: kdenlive in clive's ppa is 16.11.70, despite the package saying 16.04.3. as it's also + git unstable
[15:24] <acheronuk> or I have the actual 16.08 here https://launchpad.net/~acheron/+archive/ubuntu/yakkety/+packages
[15:26] <acheronuk> santa_: likely correct. as said, had only seen brief mention before now.
[15:27] <santa_> np
[18:02] <ghostcube_> hi folks. if prevent focus stealing is set to high. the plasma panel apps wont work proberly. will say you cant open kmenu for example if konsole is active window
[19:57] <valorie> ghostcube_: you could discuss that with the plasma devels in #plasma
[19:58] <valorie> although it's a summer weekend and most will not be around
[20:01] <ghostcube_> valorie: ok thx
[20:59] <pursuivant> muon (master) v5.6.0-7-gca1379c * Carlo Vanini: src/muonapt/QAptActions.cpp
[20:59] <pursuivant> show error message if software-properties-kde cannot be found
[20:59] <pursuivant> Settings -> "Configure Software Sources" invokes the external program
[20:59] <pursuivant> software-properties-kde, if it is not found show an error message.
[20:59] <pursuivant> http://commits.kde.org/muon/ca1379c2f8041f775625255018463a25f9c782b9
[21:33] <valorie> merge messages hitting the list.....
[21:33] <valorie> could answer santa_'s and acheronuk's questions
[21:34] <valorie> perhaps
[21:36] <acheronuk> nope. I think my gmail may be eating some.


[02:21] <mup> PR snapcraft#1405 opened: pluginhandler: check for collisions only in existing files <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1405>
[02:39] <mup> PR snapcraft#1406 opened: manifest: rename the file to manifest.yaml <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1406>
[02:42] <mup> PR snapcraft#1394 closed: tests: document the test suites in the snapcraft repo <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1394>
[02:49] <qu1nn_1> ultra newb to snappy packages.  using debian stretch. installed snapd package via "sudo apt install snapd" this appears to have taken.  Went to install nextcould via "sudo snap install nextcloud" and the terminal window states "error: cannot install "nextcloud": snap "nextcloud" has changes in progress"  what does that mean?
[06:23] <mup> PR snapd#3588 closed: tests: fix how package lists are updated for opensuse and fedora <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3588>
[06:30] <mup> PR snapd#3580 closed: store: configurable base api <Created by atomatt> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3580>
[06:30] <mup> PR snapcraft#1407 opened:  recording: record the original snapcraft.yaml <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1407>
[08:44]  * zyga ran away from home, won't be back today
[08:51]  * zyga updates interfaces API to new agreements
[09:53] <Chipaca> my ISP is not happy today :-(
[09:54] <zyga> Chipaca: what's the problem?
[09:54] <Chipaca> zyga: https://aastatus.net/
[09:54] <zyga> shellcheck is really really smart
[09:54] <zyga> In packaging/fedora/snap-mgmt.sh line 69:
[09:54] <zyga>             rm -rf "${SNAP_MOUNT_DIR}/$snap/$rev"
[09:54] <zyga>                    ^-- SC2115: Use "${var:?}" to ensure this never expands to / .
[09:55] <zyga> Chipaca: mind the outage
[09:55] <zyga> Chipaca: on the upside, I can tell you how to do multi-homing
[09:55] <zyga> Chipaca: on the downside, I don't know if I do it correctly, my experience was so-so when I enabled load-balancing
[09:55] <Chipaca> zyga: son can my isp (but it's more expensive)
[09:55] <Chipaca> so can*
[09:56] <zyga> Chipaca: multi-home with a usb modem
[09:56] <Chipaca> if this happened more frequently i might consider it
[09:56] <zyga> Chipaca: but I already had those from last year when I was working in the woods
[09:56] <Chipaca> as it is i can tolerate having to switch manually (and losing access to my music player!)
[09:57] <zyga> Chipaca: the horror!
[09:57] <Chipaca> zyga: the router these guys give you can take a usb modem and switch, i think (or maybe it's the more expensive router), but they can also connect you up to multiple circuits properly
[09:58] <zyga> Chipaca: ah that's pretty nice
[09:58] <Chipaca> in any case, probably not worth it
[09:58] <zyga> Chipaca: I did it manually on ubuntu
[09:58] <Chipaca> because when you fix a SPOF by doubling stuff, your failure rate goes up
[09:58] <zyga> Chipaca: but I also wanted to set up squid and a few other things to make my no-broadband network manageable
[09:58] <Chipaca> zyga: is wwwoffle still a thing?
[09:58] <Chipaca> i remember using that a lot
[09:59] <zyga> Chipaca: wwwoffle? I never heard about it
[09:59] <zyga> Chipaca: I'm using squid, bind, dhcpd and systemd-networkd
[09:59] <Chipaca> zyga: wwwoffle is no longer in the (ubuntu) archive, but polipo claims to be similar
[09:59] <zyga> (though I need to see if it can do what I need, I may have to switch to something more manual as it doesn't let me configure routing the way I need)
[10:00] <Chipaca> zyga: https://www.gedanken.org.uk/software/wwwoffle/
[10:00] <Chipaca> basically a agressive squid that if offline just serves up stale content no probs
[10:02] <zyga> ah, interesting
[10:02] <zyga> yeah, I wanted to script my installation a little to probe the network and switch to offline mode if both links are down
[10:03] <zyga> well, maybe one day
[10:10] <Chipaca> zyga: https://control.aa.net.uk/blip.cgi/ <- not a happy puppy
[10:11] <zyga> what is that?
[10:11] <zyga> that's not the store monitoring thing
[10:11] <Chipaca> zyga: logins and logouts at my isp
[10:11] <zyga>  - failed signature verification: openpgp: invalid signature: hash tag doesn't match
[10:11] <Chipaca> lots of 'em means things are broken
[10:11] <zyga> have you seen an error message like this before?
[10:12] <zyga> (this is me running snapd from the tree)
[10:12] <Chipaca> zyga: no but don't tell Son_Goku or he'll start ranting about gpg again
[10:12] <Son_Goku> moo
[10:12] <zyga> hey Son_Goku how are you doing?
[10:12] <zyga> it finally stopped raining here
[10:13] <zyga> (fingers crossed)
[10:13] <zyga> so I'm in good (relatively) mood
[10:13] <Chipaca> Son_Goku: :-)
[10:13] <Son_Goku> my mouth tastes like cotton
[10:13] <Son_Goku> I just woke up
[10:13] <zyga> hangover?
[10:13] <zyga> did you like the żubrówka shot?
[10:14] <zyga> (please please please like it)
[10:18] <ogra_> ppisati, any idea about the oops in https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/wifi-and-bluetooth-on-snappy-ubuntu-on-a-dragonboard/1297 ?
[10:25] <ogra_> (i have the feeling i have seen it before but cant remember the context)
[10:26]  * zyga relocates, brb
[10:36] <ppisati> ogra_: uhm, not really
[10:38] <zyga> fd
[10:38] <zyga> re
[10:39] <zyga> mvo: should we be worried?
[10:39] <zyga> 2017/07/14 12:20:28.730790 snapmgr.go:418: Cannot prepare auto-refresh change: cannot add some assertions to the system database:
[10:39] <zyga>  - failed signature verification: openpgp: invalid signature: hash tag doesn't match
[10:40] <zyga> is that a side effect or running locally
[10:40] <zyga> (go build and just run)
[10:40] <zyga> or do we have a gpg issue at hand
[10:43] <Son_Goku> zyga: no, never
[10:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: you didn't like it? aww :-(
[10:43] <zyga> Son_Goku: maybe next time I can bring you something nicer
[10:44] <Son_Goku> ... with food to go with it
[10:44] <zyga> Son_Goku: ah
[10:44] <zyga> :D
[10:44] <zyga> Son_Goku: herring with cream and vodka (though not żubrówka anymore, doesn't fit)
[10:45] <zyga> Son_Goku: very traditional Polish quisine
[10:45] <Son_Goku> herring? as the fish?
[10:45] <zyga> yes
[10:45] <Son_Goku> I hate fish :D
[10:45] <zyga> you know this sentence can be understood in two opposite ways? ;-)
[10:46] <zyga> Son_Goku: I hate fish thus I will kill each one and possibly eat it
[10:46] <zyga> Son_Goku: I hate fish thus I would rather not eat any
[10:46] <Son_Goku> the latter
[10:46] <zyga> Son_Goku: seriously you didn't try this, it's a very unique taste
[10:46] <zyga> Son_Goku: along with onions and cream
[10:46] <Son_Goku> we'll see then
[10:47] <mvo> zyga: I have not seen this one yet :/
[10:47] <zyga> https://www.google.es/search?q=%C5%9Bled%C5%BA+ze+%C5%9Bmietan%C4%85&client=ubuntu&hs=gNL&channel=fs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiNqeCdzIjVAhXCExoKHZ65BuEQ_AUICigB&biw=1280&bih=653 :D (sorry for google.es searching for polish food)
[10:47] <zyga> mvo: neither did I
[10:47] <zyga> mvo: it comes out of snapd periodically while I'm wokring today
[10:47] <mvo> zyga: I do see a debian-unstable-64 test failrue in master, but when I run the test myself
[10:47] <zyga> actually both do:
[10:47] <zyga> 2017/07/14 12:37:23.557705 snapmgr.go:418: Cannot prepare auto-refresh change: cannot add some assertions to the system database:
[10:47] <zyga>  - failed signature verification: openpgp: invalid signature: hash tag doesn't match
[10:48] <zyga> 2017/07/14 12:37:23.557770 stateengine.go:98: state ensure error: cannot add some assertions to the system database:
[10:48] <zyga>  - failed signature verification: openpgp: invalid signature: hash tag doesn't match
[10:48] <zyga> note that this is not a failure, it's just a message out of the blue
[10:48] <zyga> though I suspect it'd fail a refresh test
[10:49] <zyga> Son_Goku: I even found a wikipedia article about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dressed_herring
[10:50] <Son_Goku> the Slav is strong in that one
[10:51] <zyga> indeed
[10:51] <zyga> maybe we could do a winter sprint in poland somewhere, it would surely show up
[10:52] <fgimenez> hi mvo, i got this error during 2.27~rc3 validation http://paste.ubuntu.com/25088294/, so far in amd64 and i386 (not yet executed in the rest of archs), the session is open in case you want to take a look
[10:53] <zyga> fgimenez: looks like activation didn't trigger?
[10:54] <zyga> mvo: could this be caused by the same thing we found at the sprint, where master was out of date wrt packaging and it did the wrong thing via reexec
[10:56] <Son_Goku> zyga: uh, no
[10:56] <Son_Goku> winter sucks
[10:56] <zyga> Son_Goku: not when you have śledzik and wódka or reason to go outside into the snow
[10:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: seriously though I think you are right,
[10:57] <mvo> fgimenez: yeah, if you could /msg me how to login, that would be nice
[10:57] <mvo> fgimenez: I suspect its something silly
[10:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: do you have strong winters back home?
[10:57] <Son_Goku> yes
[10:57] <Son_Goku> not this year, but the years before, we did
[10:57] <mvo> zyga: could be, but 2.27 should be close to master still
[10:57] <Son_Goku> blizzard after blizzard
[10:57] <zyga> Son_Goku: and you don't like winter?
[10:58] <Son_Goku> I love it when it's relatively calm
[10:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: I really really dream about one sprint location
[10:58] <zyga> Iceland
[10:58] <Son_Goku> Iceland is green...
[10:58] <zyga> just because it's such a outwordly location
[10:58] <zyga> and so barren
[10:58] <zyga> I'd like to see it
[10:58] <Son_Goku> greenland is the barren place
[10:58] <zyga> get us a cabin in the middle of 100km patch with no other peoplpe
[10:58] <zyga> iceland is also barren in the sense that few people live there
[10:58] <zyga> and it's rather large
[10:59] <zyga> I doubt greenland has sprint sustaining conditions
[10:59] <zyga> apart from BUILD THE DAM IGLOO THE BEAR IS COMING!!!!
[10:59] <Son_Goku> haha
[10:59] <zyga> aka team building and bonding exercise
[10:59] <zyga> (PM dressed up as bear)
[10:59] <Son_Goku> oh dear
[10:59] <Son_Goku> the PM would die first
[10:59] <zyga> see
[10:59] <zyga> PM woud have to kill and eat the inside of the bear first
[11:00] <zyga> the running caracas shouting "rrrrrreeeeleease"!
[11:00]  * zyga gets back to yaml
[11:01] <zyga> Chipaca: do you know any simple command line yaml thing
[11:01] <zyga> that I could pipe yamlto
[11:02] <zyga> and it'd shout "that's not yaml dummy, ask Chipaca how it's made"
[11:02] <fgimenez> mvo: sure 1sec
[11:02] <zyga> Chipaca: and while we're talking, is there an implict assumption that our CLI commands speak in text that magically is parsable as valid yaml?
[11:02] <zyga> Chipaca: or can we be free-form
[11:04] <zyga> aha
[11:05] <mup> PR snapd#3589 opened: tests: remove unneeded check for re-exec in InternalToolPath() <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3589>
[11:17] <zyga> re Chipaca
[11:18] <zyga> 13:01 < zyga> Chipaca: do you know any simple command line yaml thing
[11:18] <zyga> 13:01 < zyga> that I could pipe yamlto
[11:18] <zyga> 13:02 < zyga> and it'd shout "that's not yaml dummy, ask Chipaca how it's made"
[11:18] <zyga> 13:02 < zyga> Chipaca: and while we're talking, is there an implict assumption that our CLI commands speak in text that magically is parsable as valid yaml?
[11:18] <zyga> 13:02 < zyga> Chipaca: or can we be free-form
[11:18] <Chipaca> zyga: yq?
[11:18] <Chipaca> zyga: tbh i've been using yaml-online-parser.appspot.com for that, because i'm lazy, but yq exists
[11:18] <zyga> is that a command name?
[11:18] <zyga> ah
[11:18] <Chipaca> like jq but for yaml, yes, it exists
[11:19] <zyga> mmm, are you on 16.04?
[11:19] <Chipaca> not particularly good when i tried it
[11:19] <Chipaca> i am
[11:19] <Chipaca> zyga: i'd say snap instlal yq, but it's not mature enough imho
[11:19] <Chipaca> zyga: so virtualenv + pip install
[11:20] <zyga> Chipaca: ah
[11:20] <Chipaca> hm
[11:20] <Chipaca> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/yq
[11:20] <zyga> Chipaca: how do you feel about output like this? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25088397/
[11:20] <Chipaca> maybe i got it from a duff github thing, because that's at 2.20
[11:20] <Chipaca> 2.20 doesn't sound immature
[11:20] <zyga> Chipaca: observe how output differs depending on label/attrs being there and visible
[11:21] <zyga> (I added a label and implicit attribute to network interface so that it would show)
[11:21] <Chipaca> zyga: why's the label like a slightly more verbose summary
[11:21] <Chipaca> anyway, it seems alright to me
[11:22] <Chipaca> now i'm going to go for a run
[11:22] <zyga> Chipaca: label is per instance
[11:22] <Chipaca> i expect my network to continue frobbling in my absence
[11:22] <zyga> Chipaca: the actual text there is fake
[11:22] <zyga> Chipaca: summary is per interface class
[11:22] <Chipaca> zyga: a'ight, even better then
[11:22] <zyga> Chipaca: I'm trying to come up with something in response to https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3399#discussion_r121195898
[11:22] <mup> PR snapd#3399: many: add the interface command <Decaying> <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3399>
[11:23] <Chipaca> zyga: as i say, it seems alright to me at a glance
[11:23] <zyga> great!
[11:23] <zyga> I think it's fine
[11:23] <zyga> it's not API-fine because the output may be a list of strings
[11:24] <zyga> or a list of objects
[11:24] <zyga> but that's fine
[11:24] <zyga> people that do dynamic languages love that anyway
[11:24] <zyga> ;-)
[11:24] <zyga> I wanted to retain the abiity to show details
[11:24]  * zyga needs to run and pay for parking
[11:42]  * zyga fed the parking meter
[11:54] <morphis> zyga: ping
[11:55] <zyga> yes
[11:55] <zyga> mvo, Chipaca: can you pastebin (private) the details of this snapd install oops please Jul 12 22:04:59 test-container /usr/lib/snapd/snapd[24472]: handlers.go:204: Reported install problem for "core" as 255c06b6-674e-11e7-8c10-fa163e54c21f OOPSID
[11:56] <zyga> morphis: what's up?
[11:56] <morphis> zyga: just checking if you or I should update the opensuse snapd package for the latest 2.26 release
[11:57] <zyga> morphis: I wanted to update to 2.27 as it gets released (mvo said monday)
[11:58] <morphis> zyga: release to stable on monday?
[11:58] <zyga> morphis: I think so
[11:58] <morphis> ok
[11:58] <zyga> morphis: sync packaging to master, update and release
[11:58] <morphis> makes sense
[11:59] <morphis> zyga: ok, then I leave that up to you
[11:59] <morphis> give me a ping when you need another test on the PR
[12:00] <zyga> morphis: okay, I'll try to sync the package and fix tests over weekend, hoping that we can smoothly press the button first thing next week
[12:00] <morphis> sounds good
[12:00] <morphis> zyga: you're in Warsaw next week?
[12:00] <zyga> morphis: I'm in Warsaw right now :)
[12:00] <zyga> morphis: as for the sprint, I won't be there for the week
[12:00] <morphis> zyga: ah, great!
[12:01] <zyga> (maybe I'll lurk for food ;-)
[12:01] <morphis> hehe
[12:01] <zyga> mvo has the tough job next week
[12:02] <zyga> I'll be there to hug him and offer refreshments
[12:16] <mup> PR snapcraft#1408 opened: Set XDG_CACHE_HOME in persistent LXD container <Created by kalikiana> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1408>
[12:23] <Son_Goku> zyga, what's going on with mvo next week?
[12:23] <morphis> Son_Goku: sprinting :-)
[12:25] <zyga> Son_Goku: sprinting in Warsaw
[12:26] <zyga> Son_Goku: on a business sprint, little coding, lots of tables and stuf
[12:26] <Son_Goku> ah, so mvo will be able to twiddle his thumbs a bit :P
[12:27] <niemeyer> Hello all!
[12:27] <Son_Goku> niemeyer: morning!
[12:28] <Son_Goku> mvo: did you see the typo of the word "profiles" in the changelog
[12:29] <mvo> Son_Goku: I have not, I will check and fix
[12:29] <Son_Goku> mvo: you should see my message to you yesterday about "profilese" :)
[12:29] <Son_Goku> (as Pharaoh_Atem )
[12:30] <zyga> niemeyer: hello
[12:30] <mvo> Son_Goku: uh, sounds like irc ate it
[12:30] <zyga> niemeyer: offtopic, remember when I asked all those questions about the interface API
[12:30] <niemeyer> zyga: Yeah
[12:30] <zyga> niemeyer: I really must have been tired then, it's all perfectly logical on fresh read
[12:30] <niemeyer> zyga: (what's the topic, btw? :P)
[12:30] <zyga> niemeyer: not sure how I can come across so different now
[12:30] <zyga> niemeyer: PR 3399
[12:31] <zyga> niemeyer: anyway, all good, will be done soon
[12:31] <niemeyer> zyga: Hah, yeah.. I thought it'd make more sense after sleeping on it :D
[12:31] <niemeyer> zyga: Thanks!
[12:31] <zyga> niemeyer: and now some more ontopic things: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/cannot-refresh-cannot-add-assertions-failed-signature-verification-while-hacking-on-master/1324
[12:31] <zyga> niemeyer: never saw this, didn't dive into it yet but I wanted to keep this on the radar given the immenent release
[12:31] <niemeyer> zyga: The agreements around the apps API shouldn't change this much, I think
[12:31] <Son_Goku> [Thursday, July 13, 2017] [3:11:33 PM EDT] <Pharaoh_Atem>       mvo: what's this "profilese" you speak of? :P https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/commit/7cb1b27c546bce219114010fe9c8f4d0e6a48071
[12:31] <niemeyer> zyga: The most interesting outcome of that conversation is that we'll now have an endpoint that talks about APIs in general
[12:32] <niemeyer> Erm
[12:32] <niemeyer> "apps in general"
[12:32] <mvo> Son_Goku: woah, that is a typo so big you can drive a car through
[12:32] <Son_Goku> :D
[12:33] <zyga> niemeyer: are you referring to the the discussion between you and Chipaca about the services and how apps are represented there?
[12:34] <niemeyer> zyga: Yeah, the one you asked about yesterday
[12:34] <zyga> niemeyer: ah, right
[12:34] <Chipaca> snappers, my internets are very very flaky today (isp's cisco hw is having a bad bgp day), so assume anything you say to me on irc wasn't heard unless directly answered
[12:34] <zyga> niemeyer: thanks for confirming that
[12:34] <zyga> Chipaca: I will make you feel at ease by acking the statement
[12:34] <zyga> at least now we know
[12:34] <Chipaca> zyga: ta :-)
[12:35] <zyga> Son_Goku: profilese is profiles in snapese languagese
[12:35] <Son_Goku> haha
[12:35] <Chipaca> zyga: I'd tell you a tcp joke, but I'd never know if you got it
[12:35] <zyga> "for uniformitese our changeloges will now be written in snappese"
[12:35] <zyga> Chipaca: hehe
[12:35] <zyga> Chipaca: wasn't that an UDP joke?
[12:36] <Chipaca> zyga: but you might not get it in order
[12:36] <Chipaca> zyga: I'd tell you an UDP joke
[12:37] <zyga> boy someone is in good mood today :)
[12:37] <zyga> boy someone is in good mood today :) [dup]
[12:37] <zyga> boy someone is in good mood today :) [dup]
[12:37] <Chipaca> TCP is the one that can have the bizantine generals problem (whereas udp lets the app deal with that)
[12:38] <Chipaca> my isp is having such a bad day its twitter notifications are getting rate-limited
[12:38] <Son_Goku> zyga: here we go: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/ngompa/snapd-prerel-fedora/build/579417/
[12:39] <Son_Goku> zyga: incidentally, COPR supports webhooks, so every commit or every tag could lead to a build in COPR
[12:40] <Son_Goku> zyga: if we had a Snappy SIG in Fedora, we could have an official group on copr for these things :)
[12:41] <zyga> very nice, thank you!
[12:41] <Chipaca> something something Launch all 'SIG'!
[12:41] <zyga> `Instructions not filled in by author. Author knows what to do. Everybody else should avoid this repo. `
[12:41] <zyga> Son_Goku: is there a flatpak SIG in place already?
[12:42] <Son_Goku> zyga: there is not, because the Workstation guys are driving that directly
[12:42] <zyga> Son_Goku: I'm following the ongoing thread that opposes the "graphical apps as flatpacks" change
[12:42] <Chipaca> niemeyer: wrt linode etc etc, have you seen the price on alibaba instances?
[12:42] <zyga> I see
[12:42] <zyga> alibaba is a cloud now?
[12:42] <Son_Goku> there is a Modularity SIG
[12:42] <Son_Goku> err, workgroup (WG)
[12:42] <Chipaca> https://www.alibabacloud.com/product/ecs?spm=a3c0i.7911826.709257.dproducta1.289572c4oGWOX6#EcsInsTableTrans_linux_SG
[12:42] <Son_Goku> zyga: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Modularity_Working_Group
[12:43] <zyga> Chipaca: all the VMs are backed up by china, for free ;-)
[12:43] <Son_Goku> zyga: a Snappy Fedora would most likely involve working with the modularity guys
[12:43] <zyga> I agree
[12:43] <zyga> niemeyer: "SSD Cloud Server from $30 USD per instance
[12:43] <zyga> for a whole year, with 1TB free data transfer!"
[12:43] <zyga> that's nice~
[12:43] <Chipaca> zyga: they do indeed have a cn availability zone -- and apparently have simplified some of the cn paperwork for you to have a cn pop
[12:44] <Chipaca> but i'm assuming that's not interesting for us on the snapd side (whether it's interesting for noise][ & co is a different point)
[12:44] <zyga> meh
[12:45] <zyga> This promotion is limited to 3 orders per user, with 1 instance per order. Each user can purchase up to 3 instances.
[12:45] <zyga> not so nice
[12:45] <Son_Goku> zyga: wut
[12:45] <Son_Goku> snapd is broken for i386?
[12:45] <Chipaca> wut?
[12:46] <Chipaca> certainly shouldn't be :-)
[12:46] <zyga> Son_Goku: how?
[12:46] <Son_Goku> zyga: https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/ngompa/snapd-prerel-fedora/build/579417/
[12:46] <Son_Goku> the build just failed for all 32-bit x86 targets
[12:46] <zyga> mvo's fav
[12:46] <zyga> # github.com/snapcore/snapd/cmd/snap-seccomp
[12:46] <zyga> In file included from /usr/include/xfs/xqm.h:21:0,
[12:46] <zyga>                  from src/github.com/snapcore/snapd/cmd/snap-seccomp/main.go:49:
[12:46] <zyga> /usr/include/xfs/xfs.h:53:12: error: size of array 'xfs_assert_largefile' is too large
[12:47] <zyga>  extern int xfs_assert_largefile[sizeof(off_t)-8];
[12:47] <zyga> feels like missing -D_LARGE_FILE_SUPPORT=1 or similar
[12:47] <Chipaca> uhh
[12:47] <zyga> whatever that macro was
[12:47] <zyga> but my 0.99PLN goes there
[12:47] <Chipaca> -D_WTF_BBQ
[12:47] <Son_Goku> zyga: and this is why we do this :)
[12:47] <zyga> Son_Goku: yep
[12:47] <zyga> Son_Goku: thank you!
[12:48] <zyga> speaking of which
[12:48] <zyga> I need to setup for the call
[12:49] <mvo> Son_Goku: uh, thank you
[12:50] <Son_Goku> mvo: for what?
[12:50]  * zyga preeemptively hugs mvo who will now setup fedora 25 i386 system to see which build flag is missing
[12:50] <mvo> Son_Goku: for the build log!
[12:50] <Son_Goku> haha
[12:50] <Son_Goku> mvo: no problem :)
[12:51] <Son_Goku> you can also use the generated src.rpm to actually rebuild locally :D
[13:01] <mup> PR snapcraft#1406 closed: recording: rename the file to manifest.yaml <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1406>
[13:39] <zyga_> ogra_: can we please merge https://github.com/snapcore/core-build/pull/14
[13:39] <mup> PR core-build#14: initramfs/testing: add unit tests for initrd scripts <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/core-build/pull/14>
[13:39] <zyga_> ogra_: I'd rather have *some* test support than none
[13:39] <zyga_> and we can iterate on it ad nauseam once it is in
[13:39] <zyga_> it's just python :)
[13:39] <ogra_> zyga_, do they work ?
[13:40] <zyga_> ogra_: of course!
[13:40] <zyga_> ogra_: travis runs them
[13:40] <zyga_> ogra_: feel free to try to write a few
[13:40] <ogra_> i thought there were still open issues ...
[13:40] <zyga_> nope
[13:40] <zyga_> it's all good
[13:40] <ogra_> well, no objections to merging it then
[13:40] <zyga_> woot :)
[13:41] <zyga_> I only updated it once after I got new mypy to make the whole python code statically tpyed
[13:41] <zyga_> typed*
[13:41] <zyga_> (mypy is a blessing)
[13:41] <zyga_> my code could be better but it it's not critical
[13:42] <zyga_> I will return to it when the load is smaller, to write more tests
[13:42] <zyga_> ideally people doing android bootloader support could now tests their code
[13:44] <zyga_> ogra_: merged now
[13:45]  * zyga_ -> walk & break towards the bus stop
[13:45] <mup> PR core-build#14 closed: initramfs/testing: add unit tests for initrd scripts <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/core-build/pull/14>
[13:46] <Chipaca> EHLO
[13:46] <zyga_> hey Chipaca-SMTP
[13:47] <zyga_> Chipaca: is SMTP a honorific suffix used on IRC by geeks who read the wikipedia article?
[13:47] <Chipaca> did i miss anything fun?
[13:47] <Chipaca> zyga_: if it is, it's somewhere under "-bo"
[13:47] <zyga_> Chipaca: :D
[13:47] <zyga_> nah, I'm turning gray, can't be -bo
[13:48] <zyga_> unless it recycles when one becomes senile
[13:48]  * zyga_ starts walking, ttyl
[13:48] <Chipaca> zyga_: or you experience time backwards
[13:52] <mup> PR snapcraft#1405 closed: pluginhandler: check for collisions only in existing files <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1405>
[14:03] <cachio> mvo, are you working on the linode:debian-unstable-64:tests/upgrade/basic ?
[14:04] <mup> PR snapcraft#1409 opened: snap: remove completer entry <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1409>
[14:06] <mvo> cachio: sort of, I was looking into it and then got into meetings - its "funny" because when I run this test via spread linode:debian-unstable-64 it does not fail for me
[14:06] <mvo> cachio: I have a theory why it might fail, but if you also have one I'm keen to hear it
[14:06] <cachio> mvo, I don't. I'll take a look now
[14:10] <mvo> cachio: I think the problem is the following - in 2.21 we had only SNAP_REEXEC as the environment. so snapd starts, then re-execs and sets SNAP_REEXEC=0 to prevent it from re-execing again. now in cmd.go:InternalToolpath() we check for that key and if it is set we don't use the  tool from core. which is wrong in this case, I put a PR up for it, but it fails on test sright now
[14:11] <cachio> mvo, ah, ok,
[14:11] <cachio> mvo, which is th PR?
[14:12] <mvo> cachio: 3589
[14:18] <mvo> cachio: I think I have an idea, let me push something (once local unit tests are happy)
[14:22] <Pharaoh_Atem> morning
[14:24] <mvo> cachio: I pushed a new commit, lets see if 3589 is now happy
[14:27] <cachio> mvo, ok, I could reproduce the issue
[14:27] <cachio> mvo, I am in the machine
[14:28] <cachio> mvo, do you want to check something?
[14:31] <mvo> cachio: if you could run it with the two commits from 3589 that would be nice
[14:31] <mvo> cachio: what did you do to reproduce?
[14:31] <cachio> mvo, just executed using the flag -repeat 20 for the test
[14:32] <cachio> to rerun it until it fails
[14:33] <cachio> mvo, I'll try the same with your branch
[14:34] <mvo> cachio: aha, nice. please let me know how it goes! strange that it needs -repeat 20 when in master it seems to fail consitently
[14:41] <cachio> mvo, I am running on your branch now
[14:41] <cachio> mvo, I'll let you know
[14:45] <mvo> ta
[15:04] <cachio> mvo, I reproduced the error with your branch :(
[15:04] <cachio> mvo, https://paste.ubuntu.com/25089342/
[15:08] <zyga> re
[15:08] <niemeyer> cachio_lunch: #3505 reviewed, thanks!
[15:08] <niemeyer> Hmm.. lunch is a good idea, biab
[15:14] <mup> PR snapd#3590 opened: cmd/snap: snap cli to set or revert the custom store <Created by atomatt> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3590>
[15:53] <cachio> mvo,  I see this comment on the test https://paste.ubuntu.com/25089614/
[15:53] <cachio> mvo, could it be affecting in 2.26
[15:53] <cachio> ?
[16:05] <zyga> re
[16:05] <zyga> aha, good catch cachio!
[16:15] <ogra_> zyga, if you have a bored moment on the weekend or so ... https://github.com/snapcore/pi3-gadget/pull/11 (though just taking a look at the resulting branch is probably easier than the diff https://github.com/ogra1/pi3-gadget )
[16:15] <mup> PR pi3-gadget#11: build uboot from source, pull blobs from upstream, use dtbs from archive <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/snapcore/pi3-gadget/pull/11>
[16:29] <mup> PR snapd#3591 opened: interfaces/greengrass-support: adjust accesses now that have working snap <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3591>
[16:30] <mvo> cachio: hm, thank you. there goes my theory. /me scratches head
[16:32] <cachio> mvo, so /usr/lib/snapd/snap-update-ns should exist, right?
[16:33] <pstolowski> mvo, cachio do you know if there is anything happening to linode? my travis job for #3569 has been sitting and waiting for start for ~4 hours. I've just cancelled it and restarted and it's still waiting for something
[16:34] <mvo> cachio: yes, but this test is using snapd 2.21 which does not have it, in this case it should come from the core snap
[16:34] <mup> PR snapcraft#1410 opened: tests: remove download timeout workaround <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1410>
[16:35] <cachio> pstolowski, something weird is happening, perhaps we are reaching the limit of machines
[16:35] <cachio> niemeyer, any idea about what pstolowski is saying?
[16:35] <cachio> mvo, ok
[16:37] <om26er> Hi! I can't login to snapd as it asks for 2-pass credentials. From the web interface I can login without 2-pass credentials.
[16:42] <zyga> ogra_: oh, nice!
[16:44] <zyga> jdstrand: commented on the greengrass PR
[16:47] <cachio> pstolowski, I think the problem is on travis
[16:47] <cachio> pstolowski,  it is not running the tests
[16:48] <zyga> pstolowski: travis has limited capacity
[16:48] <zyga> pstolowski: existing tests block running subsequent tests
[16:49] <zyga> pstolowski: this should be displayed on the PR status page
[16:49] <jdstrand> zyga: I responded
[16:49] <jdstrand> zyga: unrelated, fyi https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1704222
[16:49] <mup> Bug #1704222: snap debug get-base-declaration does not work with 2.26.9 <snapd:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1704222>
[16:54] <niemeyer> cachio, pstolowski: Looking
[16:55] <cachio> mvo, I think the problem is on the core which is in beta
[16:55] <niemeyer> pstolowski: You mean it's sitting there yellow?
[16:55] <cachio> mvo, not the stable one
[16:57] <niemeyer> cachio: Is that what he was talking about?
[16:57] <pstolowski> niemeyer, yes, it's been like that for a few hours
[16:57] <niemeyer> pstolowski: Travis has a few queues.. one for the project, we can only run so many things concurrently, but also one for everybody
[16:57] <cachio> niemeyer, the builds are in created state
[16:58] <niemeyer> pstolowski: In some cases there's just too much going on
[16:58] <niemeyer> cachio, pstolowski: When it's yellow, it hasn't even started, which means it can't possibly be about Linode
[16:58] <niemeyer> Looking here we can see that indeed Travis has built some global backlog today:
[16:58] <niemeyer> https://www.traviscistatus.com/
[16:58] <cachio> niemeyer, I said the same
[16:58] <niemeyer> This, specifically:
[16:58] <niemeyer> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/7AqxcV5f/image.png
[16:59] <mvo> cachio: interessting - does it work with stable?
[16:59] <pstolowski> niemeyer, yeah i know.. i just don't recall it taking that long
[16:59] <pstolowski> fair enough
[16:59] <niemeyer> pstolowski: Unfortunately, your strategy of stopping and restarting was a really bad one in this specific case :)
[16:59] <pstolowski> niemeyer, yes!
[16:59] <cachio> mvo, I ran the test manually and worked, I am running it again
[17:00] <cachio> mvo, I am running manually with beta now
[17:01] <cachio> if it fails it means the problem probably is in the beta
[17:01] <Chipaca> I'm in a maze of twisty circular imports, all alike
[17:01] <Chipaca> so I'm going to EOW right about here
[17:02] <Chipaca> niemeyer: mvo: (anybody else?): safe travels!
[17:03] <jdstrand> zyga: is there a particular pivot_root mediation issue you were thinking about? I'd like to make sure we have a bug for it
[17:03] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Thanks!
[17:03] <mvo> Chipaca: thanks, appreciated!
[17:03] <niemeyer> pstolowski too, but out of Warsaw rather than into it :)
[17:03] <mvo> cachio: ta
[17:03] <pstolowski> niemeyer, i got part of the https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/how-to-snap-get-root-document/522/2 story implemented (printing the keys), but not the ability to print root document. I need to add a spread test though so not proposing it just yet. i need to start packing stuff for tomorrow
[17:03] <niemeyer> He's running away from us
[17:04] <niemeyer> pstolowski: 👍
[17:04] <Chipaca> niemeyer: my envy stops me from wishing him well
[17:04] <niemeyer> LOL
[17:04] <pstolowski> :)
[17:04] <Chipaca> pstolowski: break a leg :-)
[17:04] <pstolowski> i'll drink a few beers for you guys :)
[17:05] <cachio> mvo, manually works also with beta
[17:05] <pstolowski> once afain, safe travels everyone, have a good sprint & time in Warsaw!
[17:06] <pstolowski> o/
[17:06] <cachio> mvo, the change that you did should work if the test updates the core from the store?
[17:07] <zyga> jdstrand: just that pivot_root is the reason we are not using chroot, pivot root is transparent to apparmor so one can construct a fs where after pivot root all paths are allowed
[17:08]  * zyga takes a break for birthday party (not his), back to hacking tomorrow, have some things to catch up after a slow eek
[17:08] <zyga> week
[17:08] <kyrofa> zyga, a kid? My son's was yesterday
[17:08] <cachio> mvo, I think the problem is that this test is using a snapd from the store and not the built one
[17:09] <jdstrand> bye zyga, have fun
[17:10] <zyga> kyrofa: no, friends that are expecting one (finally we're not going to be the sole parents)
[17:11] <zyga> kyrofa: kids are very unpopular in this generation apparently
[17:11] <zyga> jdstrand: btw, just a quick question
[17:12] <zyga> jdstrand: are you familiar with the hybrid DFA/NFA tables used by the binary representation?
[17:12] <zyga> I found them rather curious
[17:12] <zyga> I'm planning on documenting them via Documentation/ patch
[17:13] <dpb1> hi there -- how do I build the core snap?  I'm searching online and not finding a lot
[17:14] <jdstrand> zyga: only at the very highest levels. you would want to talk to jjohansen1
[17:14] <kyrofa> zyga, ha!
[17:15]  * zyga waves
[17:15] <niemeyer> Yeah, Travis is definitely having trouble today.. we have almost the entirety of our machine pool powered off right now
[17:15] <zyga> jdstrand: thank you!
[18:12] <cachio> mvo, there?
[18:13] <mvo> cachio: not really, its getting late here :/
[18:15] <cachio> ok, I'll tell you on monday
[18:15] <cachio> I have a fix for the upgrade test but it is partial
[18:17] <mvo> cachio: ok, I think my PR is still useful, but slightly sad that this particular case is not fixed. *if* its getting the snapd from the store in the test, we probably just need to merge it to master and 2.27 and things should start working again?
[18:18] <mvo> cachio: (I still think my PR addresses the root cause of the bug)
[18:18] <cachio> mvo, agree
[18:19] <cachio> if I install from stable the core
[18:19] <cachio> mvo, I can't reproduce the error
[18:19] <cachio> but if I remove the line "snap install core"
[18:20] <cachio> the test gets stuck running
[18:20] <cachio> Run configure hook of "core" snap if present
[18:23] <mvo> cachio: ok, keep me updated on this, I have only half-a-brain available for it right now
[18:23]  * mvo vanishes for some minutes
[18:24] <cachio> mvo, I am gonna update your branch to push the fix in the test, is ok?
[18:25] <cachio> mvo, or you prefer a different branch
[18:50] <mvo> cachio: sure, just push to my branch
[18:51] <cachio> mvo, I did it, tx
[19:31] <mup> PR snapd#3592 opened: interfaces: opengl support pci device and vendor <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3592>
[19:31] <kyrofa> jdstrand, please add that to your review backlog ^^
[19:32] <jdstrand> I know this PR :) I'll do it now
[19:32] <kyrofa> jdstrand, you're the best!
[19:46] <mup> PR snapd#3593 opened: interfaces/wayland: add access to wayland compositors <Blocked> <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3593>
[22:37] <qu1nn_1> anyone familiar with the nextcloud snap?


[04:03] <vnguyen> is anyone here familiar with setting up LXC and tweaking upstart to run?
[12:21] <mcarter_> Is it just me, but  does anyone get the impression that EC2 slows down whilst doing a long compile?
[12:22] <mcarter_> It seems to start off fine, but that starts to drag.
[12:22] <mcarter_> I'm using a micro instance.
[12:23] <mcarter_> Doesn't seem specific to ubuntu - i had that problem with fedora.
[13:56] <h1> mcarter_ : that's not surprising as they are surely oversubscribing their machines, hence the scheduler gives a lower priority to long-running processes.
[13:57] <h1> what I was wondering: are you guys patching the OS yourself or is that something the provider does?
[14:13] <alonswartz> smoser, kirkland, soren - you guys familiar with puppet?
[14:14] <kirkland> alonswartz: yup
[14:14] <kirkland> alonswartz: mathiaz is our local expert
[14:14] <kirkland> alonswartz: speak of the devil....
 smoser, kirkland, soren - you guys familiar with puppet?
 alonswartz: mathiaz is our local expert
[14:15] <kirkland> mathiaz: ^
[14:15] <alonswartz> excellent, I wanted to pass an idea by you - maybe we can discuss it further at UDS
[14:15] <mathiaz> kirkland: o/ :)
[14:15] <alonswartz> hey mathiaz
[14:15] <mathiaz> alonswartz: hi!
[14:15] <kirkland> alonswartz: sure....shoot!
[14:16] <alonswartz> I've been going through my idea archive looking for stuff we can possible discuss at UDS. One of them is Pymin, which I think has some overlap with puppet - I'd like get your thoughts
[14:16] <alonswartz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Pymin
[14:21] <alonswartz> kirkland: mathiaz: finished reading yet?
[14:22] <mathiaz> alonswartz: I've put it on my toread list for later today
[14:22] <kirkland> alonswartz: looking
[14:22] <mathiaz> alonswartz: I've got a couple of meetings lined up
[14:22] <mathiaz> alonswartz: I should get to it later today
[14:23] <alonswartz> mathiaz: ok, great. I'll try be on IRC later to get your feedback
[14:28] <kirkland> alonswartz: okay I'm up to speed -- looks like you have enough to propose a UDS session
[14:30] <alonswartz> kirkland: It's an ambitious project, do you think it's doable?
[14:31] <alonswartz> what I mean is it something that fits into the boundary of a session at UDS?
[14:31] <kirkland> alonswartz: definitely the sort of discussion that takes place as UDS
[14:31] <kirkland> alonswartz: don't know if or who might commit to helping with it
[14:31] <kirkland> alonswartz: but UDS is a great place to get feedback and drum up support
[14:32] <alonswartz> ok then, I'll add it to the ideapool
[14:33] <alonswartz> kirkland: I'm not very familiar with puppet (yet), is there an overlap?
[14:34] <kirkland> alonswartz: well, puppet is a tool for orchestrating multiple machines at a time
[14:34] <kirkland> (gross simplification)
[14:36] <kirkland> alonswartz: you might use puppet as part of the plumbing of your solution
[14:37] <alonswartz> kirkland: I need to read up and experiment with it, never used it before
[14:37] <alonswartz> kirkland: doesn't landscape do something similar ?
[14:38] <kirkland> alonswartz: yes
[14:38] <alonswartz> kirkland: is it opensource?
[14:38] <kirkland> alonswartz: the client part
[14:39] <alonswartz> landscape-client ?
[14:39] <kirkland> alonswartz: right
[16:09] <h1> what I was wondering: are you guys patching the OS yourself or is that something the provider does?
[21:57] <smoser> erichammond, ping
[21:57] <smoser> never mind