[00:45] <Xenicide> Okey another question.
[00:45] <Xenicide> Is it possible to install xubuntu by mounting the iso?
[00:46] <the_ant> hey, i just install project-open on my laptop. and for some reason i need to remove it. i install using step from here http://www.project-open.org/documentation/install_ubuntu badly i forget to write log.
[00:50] <the_ant> Xenicide: what do you want to do?
[00:52] <Xenicide> I want to install xubuntu from windows xp from the harddrive
[00:55] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: replacing windows xp?
[00:59] <the_ant> where is your destination? install xubuntu as dual boot or under windows using wubi?
[00:59] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: Maybe. It doesnt realy matter to me. My tought was if i wanted i could delete windows from Xubuntu
[01:00] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: option: install VirtualBox or VMWare and run Xubuntu as vm for a while?
[01:01] <Xenicide> So by using wubi you install xubuntu on a ntfs file system?
[01:02] <the_ant> Xenicide: yes, you install xubuntu as a program on windows. if you don't like you can remove it from control panel.
[01:02] <TVasEyes> might as well use Live version, even less hassle.
[01:03] <the_ant> yap. TVasEyes is true.
[01:03] <Xenicide> dont you have to burn a cd to do that?
[01:04] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: for live, yes.
[01:04] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: there may be an option to use an USB stick, I don't know (someone here will though)
[01:04] <the_ant> if you don't want to burn CD use Virtual machine to run live session.
[01:05] <the_ant> TVasEyes: using unetbootin is easy.
[01:05] <the_ant> Xenicide: burn your iso to USB stick using unetbootin.
[01:07] <TVasEyes> Xenicide, the_ant:  for just trying out live version is definitely easiest.
[01:07] <Xenicide> Well by comp cant boot from USB
[01:07] <TVasEyes> but you ca nburn cd?
[01:08] <TVasEyes> can burn*
[01:08] <Nineain> (Ohh wooaahhh) x3
[01:08] <Nineain> You know you love me
[01:08] <Nineain> I know you care
[01:08] <Nineain> Just shout whenever,
[01:08] <Nineain> And I'll be there
[01:08] <[nyan]> la que espera..
[01:08] <Nineain> You want my love
[01:08] <[nyan]> KJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
[01:08] <Nineain> You want my heart
[01:08] <Nineain> And we would never, ever, ever be apart
[01:08] <Nineain> Are we an item?
[01:08] <Nineain> Girl quit playin'
[01:08] <Nineain> We're just friends,
[01:08] <Nineain> What are you sayin'?
[01:08] <Nineain> Said there's another as you look right in my eyes
[01:08] <Nineain> My first love, broke my heart for the first time
[01:08] <Nineain> And I was like
[01:08] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ooh
[01:08] <Nineain> Like
[01:09] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby noo
[01:09] <Nineain> Like
[01:09] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ohh
[01:09] <bazhang> !ot
[01:09] <Nineain> I thought you'd always be mine (mine)
[01:09] <Xenicide> I cant even get my cdrom to work.
[01:09] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ohh
[01:09] <Nineain> Like
[01:09] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby noo
[01:09] <Nineain> Like
[01:09] <bazhang> Nineain, stop that
[01:09] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ohh
[01:09] <Nineain> I thought you'd always be mine (mine)
[01:09] <Nineain> Oh oh For you, I would have done whatever
[01:09] <[nyan]> JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA
[01:09] <Unit193> Thank you bazhang
[01:09] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: oh, then maybe the_ant's suggestion is the way forward.
[01:11] <TVasEyes> otoh, maybe a new cd drive first?
[01:13] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: to install it using wubi? When i installed it seemed easy. I thought i was getting a real linix os.
[01:13] <Nineain> And I was like
[01:13] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ooh
[01:13] <Nineain> Like
[01:13] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby noo
[01:13] <Nineain> Like
[01:13] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ohh
[01:13] <Nineain> I thought you'd always be mine (mine)
[01:13] <Nineain> Baby, baby, baby ohh
[01:14] <Nineain> Like
[01:14] <Xenicide> Its not my drive that is the problem, i got a few but iam not very good at getting them to work.
[01:15] <TVasEyes> iXenicide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wubi_(Ubuntu_installer) says not.
[01:16] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: going the virtual machine route gives you both, 'real' linux and option to start from iso
[01:17] <TVasEyes> with a vm you won't need a new drive.
[01:18] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: But in the wiki it says : While Wubi does not install Ubuntu directly to its own partition this can also be accomplished by using LVPM, the Loopmounted Virtual Partition Manager, to transfer the Wubi-generated Ubuntu installation to a dedicated real partition
[01:19] <the_ant> consider xubuntu system requirement if use virtual machine.
[01:19] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: and it goes on to say: "It is not a Linux distribution of its own, but rather an installer for Ubuntu"
[01:20] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: anyway, quickest route (IMO): install VirtualBox or VmWare Player, download Ubuntu appliance and enjoy.
[01:24] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: Then lets say i want to replace windows with linux. I know it can can be done from the hdd but its a little bit more complicated.
[01:24] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: I think without working cdrom and no option to boot from USB, replacing Windows is dicey..
[01:25] <TVasEyes> might wind u pwithout anything working at all.
[01:25] <TVasEyes> wind up*
[01:26] <the_ant> ever i tried installing xubuntu to HDD from ISO image using VMware workstation, and its work.
[01:26] <Xenicide> I know you have to use grub witch i have installed, its how you use its command that is hard.
[01:27] <holstein> you can go to another machine to install
[01:27] <the_ant> only if you have extra spare HDD. and set it as HDD of virtual machine.
[01:27] <holstein> take the hard drive to another machine
[01:28] <Xenicide> So lets say i use VMware and the deletes the windows folder... what happens?
[01:28] <the_ant> using VMware as i said before?
[01:29] <TVasEyes> if you run Windows version of vmware and delete Windows -- it'll crash.
[01:29] <Xenicide> Another machine.. that might work, but then what?
[01:29] <the_ant> if you boot from extra spare of hdd it's possible.
[01:30] <the_ant> i mean windows status is shutted down.
[01:30] <the_ant> and you run xubuntu from another hdd.
[01:33] <Xenicide> so the other hdd is used as an USB?
[01:34] <TVasEyes> not sure what the_ant meant, I read this as dual-boot.  if you have another machine, and you're networked,
[01:34] <TVasEyes> maybe someone can talk you through network boot/install.
[01:37] <Xenicide> No i only got one machine, and a ps3. But i should have access to another comp if that helps.
[01:39] <TVasEyes> tbh, I'd sort out the hardware first.
[01:44] <Xenicide> Well a 1.3 ghz and 384 ram comp is rather limited. http://agnipulse.com/2011/08/install-ubuntu-hard-disk/ is what i tried first.
[01:46] <TVasEyes> there are other Linuxes which can cope with 384M ram well. ;)
[01:46] <Xenicide> http://www.instantfundas.com/2007/08/install-any-linux-distro-directly-from.html then ther is this.
[01:49] <Xenicide> Other linuxes? Iam sure there is.. Is all linuxes hardware specific?
[01:50] <TVasEyes> some need a lot more ram than others, all depends what s/ware you expect to use.
[01:51] <Xenicide> While IRC might seems fast, maybe it would easier to ask on a forum. Well that i do know.
[01:53] <the_ant> Xenicide: have you check distrowatch for that?
[01:56] <Xenicide> no what is that?
[01:57] <Xenicide> is it posible to make another partion and just copy paste a pre installed linux?
[01:57] <the_ant> distrowatch is place to browse which distro is fit to you.
[01:58] <holstein> Xenicide: you can run something like puppy linux like that
[01:58] <holstein> you can take the hard drive to another machine, and install linux on it, and bring it back to that machine
[01:58] <the_ant> no. Xenocide you can't do that.
[01:58] <Xenicide> the_ant: is that because of hardware?
[01:59] <holstein> you *could* copy puppy over somehow, but it wouldnt be trivial
[01:59] <the_ant> as holstein say, thats the only way. acording your hardware.
[02:00] <the_ant> Xenocide: but you can copy the partition. i use paragon for that. *sorry the easy way*
[02:02] <the_ant> Xenocide: i make it clear. you can copy the whole partition of linux to another hdd. but you can't copy file per file to another hdd, except you install minimal linux on it and copy another file you needed, but it's hard to do.
[02:08] <Xenicide> the_ant: Xenocide? Did you typo twice? I dont want easy, i want to go from windows to linux using only my hdd.
[02:09] <holstein> Xenicide: ?
[02:09] <holstein> virtualbox?
[02:09] <holstein> did you rule out netboot?
[02:10] <the_ant> Xenicide: sory for my typo.
[02:11] <the_ant> Xenicide: how big is your HDD?
[02:12] <Xenicide> holstein: Tried virtualbox, didnt work. netboot? Just want to change windows to Linux.
[02:13] <holstein> Xenicide: sure, and thats easy when you have the proper tools
[02:13] <Xenicide> the_ant: 80gb
[02:13] <holstein> if you have no way to boot install media, you'll need to be crative
[02:13] <holstein> creative*
[02:15] <Xenicide> the_ant: no problem about the typo.
[02:15] <holstein> you mean the nick?
[02:16] <holstein> just use tab complete on the nicks... just type an X and hit tab
[02:17] <the_ant> holstein, thanks for it. i never chat using this before. :-D
[02:17] <holstein> the_ant: welcome !
[02:18] <Xenicide> X didnt work for me but xe didi
[02:19] <holstein> when i type "t" and hit tab, it cycles through the t nicks
[02:20] <the_ant> Xenicide: do you have another hdd?
[02:20] <Xenicide> holstein: creative? As long as it works by using only the hdd.
[02:20] <holstein> Xenicide: ?
[02:20] <holstein> Xenicide: it doesnt
[02:21] <holstein> Xenicide: do you have another machine?
[02:21] <Xenicide> holstein: baybe bcuz i use chatzilla
[02:21] <holstein> Xenicide: is the cd rom drive broken?
[02:21] <holstein> you can use plop to boot USB devices from cd
[02:22] <holstein> Xenicide: does the machine to netboot?
[02:22] <Xenicide> the_ant: yes but it got content on it that i want to keep.
[02:23] <holstein> Xenicide: the hard drive?
[02:23] <holstein> you need to back that up
[02:23] <holstein> i would *not* do any dual booting, or shrinking partitions without backing up
[02:24] <holstein> if you dont have that information backedup, its a matter of time til you lose it anyways, so just go ahead and develop a plan for that, and that plan will also help you install linux in this scenario
[02:24] <the_ant> Xenicide: OK, i assume you only have 2 hdd, 384MB RAM, 1.3ghz CPU
[02:25] <the_ant> first, rearrange the partition. so you can backup your data to another partition.
[02:26] <holstein> another drive really.. that hard drive *will* fail
[02:26] <Xenicide> holstein: just 1 comp, no cd drive, no USB boot, just my hdd. netboot?
[02:26] <holstein> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_booting
[02:26] <the_ant> use your second hdd that not contain any data you want to keep as UFD replacement.
[02:26] <holstein> Xenicide: how do you do backups?
[02:27] <holstein> network?
[02:27] <the_ant> use unetbootin to move your iso to your second HDD.
[02:27] <holstein> yeah, i like that ^^
[02:27] <holstein> that'll work :)
[02:28] <holstein> select it from the bios
[02:28] <the_ant> boot from your second hdd to run xubuntu installer.
[02:28] <holstein> boot, install to the other one
[02:28] <holstein> Xenicide: do you have 2 hard drives?
[02:28] <the_ant> ^^ yeah true.
[02:28] <holstein> in the machine?
[02:29] <Xenicide> my second got space but another filesystem so if possile i rather not use that. Partioning i know how to use.
[02:29] <holstein> Xenicide: that is literally the only way
[02:29] <the_ant> make sure you not touch your backup partition when installing xubuntu.
[02:29] <the_ant> what filesystem?
[02:29] <holstein> move all the data to one drive, format the other fat32... unetbootin the iso on it, and move the data back over onto it
[02:30] <holstein> Xenicide: you have limited options here
[02:30] <holstein> puppy will do what you are looking for, but its not quite the same
[02:30] <the_ant> i think it's the only way.
[02:31] <holstein> if you want a modern distro, you'll need to make some decisions there
[02:31] <TVasEyes> holstein: and buy RAM.
[02:31] <the_ant> i assume you have no cdrom, no usb boot, no network.
[02:31] <holstein> hehe
[02:31] <holstein> yeah, network boot is still an option potentially
[02:32] <Xenicide> holstein: ps3
[02:32] <holstein> Xenicide: ?
[02:32] <the_ant> Xenicide: what?
[02:32] <holstein> play station 3?
[02:32] <Xenicide> holstein: that was for the_ant
[02:32] <holstein> what is ps3?
[02:32] <holstein> still .. whats ps3?
[02:35] <the_ant> ps3 filesystem?
[02:37] <Xenicide> yes its palystaion 3, windows cant read it so it has to use a special file system (like fat, ntfs, or ext4)
[02:37] <the_ant> is it possible to resize yout ps3 hdd or partition?
[02:38] <Xenicide> the_ant: i think so. Then i plug it in with a USB device
[02:39] <Xenicide> If ther is a will, there is a way... so i just have to find a way
[02:42] <the_ant> i never try with ps3 partition but you may try paragon partition manager to do it.
[02:44] <Xenicide> the_ant: never would  or have? what is pragon?
[02:45] <holstein> http://www.partition-manager.com/
[02:45] <holstein> i personally ust http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
[02:45] <holstein> thers a parted magic install on there
[02:46] <holstein> all linux live CD generally have some partition manager though
[02:48] <the_ant> holstein: he use windows, and can't boot from CD.
[02:49] <holstein> yeah, im just saying what i use, and its free
[02:49] <Xenicide> holstein: the first link just seemed like a partion program, thed other seemed cd impended.
[02:50] <holstein> if you spend $40 on software, you might as well get a USB stick, or something
[02:52] <the_ant> there's free version for that job http://www.paragon-software.com/home/pm-express/download.html
[02:52] <holstein> sweet!
[02:52] <holstein> ill have to bookmark that for later
[02:57] <Xenicide> holstein: if i spent $2000 usd i woldnt have this problem
[02:58] <holstein> ?
[02:58] <holstein> if you spend $40
[02:58] <holstein> i got a USB cd rom drive the other day for $20 with lightscribe
[02:59] <holstein> i literally trip over CDrom drives i would give you if you were here
[02:59] <holstein> you dont need $$ necessarily, though it wouldnt hurt
[03:01] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: if you've nowhere to backup to, how about using Google documents as temp storage? (you get ~8G I think)
[03:02] <Xenicide> getting an USB is easy (my neighbor got one), but then i need by bios to boot from usb.
[03:02] <holstein> yup, and dropbox... sparkleshare.. mediafire
[03:04] <the_ant> buy internal CDRW burn the ISO and boot from it. it's simple if you spent $
[03:07] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: I dont need backup.. iam not about safety, for example i neither got a firewall or virus protection.
[03:07]  * TVasEyes shakes head
[03:08] <holstein> all hard drives fail
[03:09] <TVasEyes> and you said you had content which you wanted to keep..
[03:10] <the_ant> TVasEyes: it was playstation3 partition.
[03:11] <TVasEyes> ah
[03:12] <Xenicide> the_ant: yes if you want it simple... but i youre chap you only want the system you have at the moment... because it can be done.
[03:13] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: yes i have content i want to keep (like movies and music, but i its not a problem if i loose it)
[03:14] <the_ant> Xenicide: i just kidding :-p have you try the method i said before?
[03:14] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: backup to the cloud, then follow the recipe given by the_ant?
[03:16] <TVasEyes> anyway, good luck with it all.
[03:16] <the_ant> TVasEyes: if you're in my place, backup to cloud will take week.
[03:17] <TVasEyes> the_ant: yes, but wouldn't need to be full backup, only the really important stuff, compressed & encrypted.
[03:19] <TVasEyes> the_ant: at any rate, Xenicide will have to make some hard decisions.
[03:19] <the_ant> TVasEyes: yap. it's true.
[03:21] <Xenicide> Nope both is wrong.. I just want it work with what i have.
[03:23] <the_ant> Xenicide: limitation. it make us creative. :-D
[03:29] <Xenicide> the_ant: Easy is not always better. If there is a way for it to work, iam going to write a guide about it. Because information about linux is more or less non-existence.
[03:34] <the_ant> Xenicide: if there is the easy way why take the hard way?
[03:35] <the_ant> use good wah at the good time
[03:35] <the_ant> way
[03:37] <Xenicide> the_ant: if everyone wanted the easy way, nobody would use linux.
[03:38] <the_ant> linux is alternative.
[03:39] <the_ant> except you want to learn it.learning is not always easy.
[03:43] <the_ant> linux is not the hard way.
[03:48] <Xenicide> the_ant: Altenative? Maybe. Yes, learing can be hard, i know by trying to learn C++. On linux it depends if you have to use the command? (like cmd) because thats hard
[03:59] <Paimun> god damn it
[03:59] <Paimun> xubuntu doesn't think I have any audio hardware AGAIN
[04:00] <the_ant> Paimun, that's i mean the hard way.
[04:01] <Paimun> I think you left out a word
[04:01] <the_ant> whats that?
[04:02] <Paimun> "that's i mean the hard way"
[04:02] <Paimun> does not make sense
[04:03] <Xenicide> that's what i mean with the hard way.?
[04:04] <Xenicide> or is the hard way.
[04:05] <the_ant> (doh) i got typo again.
[04:05] <dnoir> hi I am a newbie to xubuntu and wondering how to auto login on 11.10
[04:10] <TVasEyes> dnoir: https://we.riseup.net/refeman+tech-stuff/xubuntu-setup#activate-automatic-login
[04:15] <Xenicide> dnoir: why not change to kdm?
[04:15] <dnoir> thanks tvaseyes will look into it now
[04:15] <Xenicide> dnoir: check http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1864527&page=2
[04:22] <dnoir> I am happy to change to kdm, but never used linux / code / terminal stuff before so figuring it out as i go. tvaseyes solution gave me following response -> bash: /etc/gdm/custom.conf: No such file or directory
[04:24] <TVasEyes> dnoir: Xenicide's link might do it for you, otherwise google 'xubuntu "automatic login"', there'll be loads of different recipes, depending on which desktop and login manager you use.
[04:27] <dnoir> thanks but not sure I have the basic skills necessary, I tried typing [SeatDefaults] into the terminal and pressing enter but it said no command, perhaps I need to learn basic terminal code before I hassle you guys further
[04:30] <TVasEyes> dnoir: [SeatDefaults] is a section in file /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[04:31] <TVasEyes> you will need to edit this file (if you use lightdm for login), and you need to do this using sudo becuase you require privilege.
[04:32] <dnoir> i tried typing "sudo autologin-user=dnoir" and lots of text came up so perhaps I am getting somewhere
[04:32] <TVasEyes> if you have no experience, familiarise yourself with an editor of choice first.
[04:32] <Xenicide> From what i read TVasEyes is correct.An alternative to Alin's answer is to create a file /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf and add the following content:
[04:32] <Xenicide> [SeatDefaults]
[04:32] <Xenicide> autologin-user=<YOUR USER>
[04:32] <Xenicide> autologin-user-timeout=0
[04:32] <Xenicide> user-session=ubuntu
[04:32] <Xenicide> greeter-session=unity-greeter
[04:32] <Xenicide> Next time you start, auto-login should work like expected.
[04:33] <Xenicide> Or rather: http://askubuntu.com/questions/51086/how-do-i-enable-auto-login-with-lightdm
[04:37] <jasonsrus2007> just testing irssi
[04:37] <dnoir> Sorry think I am out of my depth here, thanks for your help tho, I am going to watch some terminal tutorials on youtube
[04:38] <TVasEyes> dnoir: ;)
[04:38] <jasonsrus2007> dnoir > what are you having problems with?
[04:54] <Xenicide> Did jason just asked a question and then just leaved?
[04:56] <dnoir> in the terminal i typed "pwd" and pressed enter it said my directory was "/home/dnoir" so how do I "create a file /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf"
[04:57] <TVasEyes> dnoir: you need to use an editor, there are a number of different ones, I like using vi.
[04:59] <TVasEyes> create the file in your home directory, when it's complete copy it to the correct directory. want to do it now?
[05:01] <TVasEyes> dnoir: ?
[05:01] <dnoir> how do I use the vi editor
[05:02] <TVasEyes> ok, type vi lightdm.conf <enter>
[05:02] <TVasEyes> then i to go into insert mode.
[05:02] <dnoir> ok done it says "lightdm" [new file]
[05:02] <Xenicide> A genaral question: Why does an OS need to be installed during boot?
[05:03] <TVasEyes> now i to get insert mode
[05:03] <TVasEyes> so you can enter text into the new file.
[05:04] <holstein> Xenicide: during boot?
[05:04] <holstein> it doesnt
[05:04] <holstein> it needs to be installed if you want it installed
[05:04] <dnoir> does that just mean pressing insert on the key board?
[05:05] <TVasEyes> dnoir: no, the i key, the legend at the bottom should change
[05:07] <TVasEyes> dnoir: do you see --insert at the bottom of your window?
[05:09] <dnoir> no sorry I pressed the i key but nothing happened
[05:10] <TVasEyes> dnoir: hm, after you start vi <filename>, when you press i you will get into insert mode.
[05:10] <TVasEyes> can you type and see the text entered?
[05:11] <dnoir> nope sorry
[05:12] <holstein> i still use nano
[05:12] <TVasEyes> dnoir: oh dear.  can you exit by typing :q<enter> ?
[05:12] <Xenicide> holstein: Yes or you wouldnt have to restart to install an OS.
[05:12] <dnoir> oh yes after I press i I can insert text sorry
[05:12] <TVasEyes> holstein: never used nano.
[05:13] <holstein> its just a simple editor... nothing like vi... but i use it for banging out something simple in the CLI
[05:13] <TVasEyes> dnoir: good.  no, what you type must be exact.  I'll paste the lines from my lightdm.conf one by one.
[05:14] <TVasEyes> dnoir: first line reads:  [SeatDefaults]
[05:14] <TVasEyes> then enter to get to second line
[05:15] <holstein> Xenicide: yeah, you'll need to restart at some point to change operating systems, at least natively
[05:15] <dnoir> ok
[05:15] <TVasEyes> the next two lines will be from a forum because I don't do auto login
[05:15] <TVasEyes> line 2:  autologin-user-timeout=0
[05:15] <TVasEyes> then enter
[05:16] <TVasEyes> line 3:  autologin-session=lightdm-autologin
[05:16] <TVasEyes> enter again
[05:17] <TVasEyes> the next line you'll need to know whether you like xfce desktop or standard ubuntu, here's mine for xfce
[05:17] <TVasEyes> line 4:  user-session=xfce
[05:17] <TVasEyes> change xfce to ubuntu if necessary, then enter
[05:17] <Xenicide> holstein: yes to change, but i meant installing.
[05:18] <TVasEyes> dnoir: you still with it?
[05:18] <holstein> Xenicide: you'll need a way to use the install media... you have several options to explore though
[05:18] <holstein> network boot, and unetbootin from that 2nd hard drive
[05:18] <holstein> or, just take it to another machine
[05:18] <holstein> Xenicide: i wouldnt expect to find the magic loop-hole
[05:19] <holstein> if you want to install the OS, you'll need to do just that
[05:19] <dnoir> yes i am following everything
[05:19] <TVasEyes> cool, next line:  greeter-session=lightdm-gtk-greeter
[05:19] <dnoir> just had to restart once cause I made a mistake
[05:20] <Xenicide> holstein: network boot is boot, unetbootin is boot, live CD is still boot. So why all the booting?
[05:20] <TVasEyes> vi isn't the friendliest of editors, sorry  to inflict it on you. :-)
[05:20] <holstein> Xenicide: you need to boot the install media if you want to install
[05:21] <holstein> you are booting whatever OS you are in now, and something was booted to install that OS
[05:21] <dnoir> thats cool i have never done this stuff before so very interested anyway
[05:21] <dnoir> i press enter after ...greeter
[05:21] <TVasEyes> dnoir: when you've enter all five lines exactly as shown, press <Escape> key once to get out of insert mode.
[05:22] <TVasEyes> yes, enter after each line.
[05:22] <dnoir> ok pressed esc
[05:23] <TVasEyes> ok, now type : (that's a colon) followed by wq and enter (: makes vi expect a command, w for write file, q for quit)
[05:23] <holstein> Xenicide: did you try wubi?
[05:23] <holstein> seems like that is just the thing for you
[05:24] <TVasEyes> dnoir: you should now be back in the shell / terminal program and see your prompt.
[05:24] <dnoir> do i type wq then enter or w <enter> the q?
[05:24] <TVasEyes> type :wq<enter>
[05:25] <Xenicide> holsein: but why boot to install? For example: If i want to install a program i just install and then start it without rebooting. Wubi? Yes but there is some boot menu that i cant find any information att all.
[05:25] <dnoir> sorry it said command not found
[05:26] <holstein> Xenicide: you want a wubi
[05:26] <TVasEyes> dnoir: are you still in vi? if yes, press <Escape>, then :wq<Enter>
[05:26] <holstein> Xenicide: mostly because of the changes on the hard drive... partitioning for example
[05:27] <dnoir> actually i may have already done the correct command in vi cause I am back in the terminal, think I miss read your instructions, lets assume I did it correct and proceed
[05:28] <TVasEyes> dnoir: ok, now if you do ls<Enter> (ls is used to list the files in the current directory) you should see the newly created file
[05:28] <holstein> Xenicide: when you install an application, that is into the already booted OS
[05:28] <dnoir> ls
[05:29] <TVasEyes> dnoir: yes, ls for LiSt
[05:29] <dnoir> yes there is a lightdm.conf file :)
[05:30] <TVasEyes> cool,  now type cat lightdm.conf<Enter> and the file contents will be printed to the console,
[05:30] <Xenicide> holstein: partitioning is easy. During wubi install my comp hangs, when i choose another option i got "input sigan out of range"
[05:30] <TVasEyes> this will allow you to double-check there are no typo's.
[05:30] <TVasEyes> it's important that there are no typo's.
[05:31] <holstein> Xenicide: i didnt imply it was challenging to partition, but partitioning a hard drive that is running an OS can be challening
[05:31] <holstein> WUBI is the way to go for what you are dealing with
[05:31] <holstein> i would work on what that error is
[05:31] <holstein> try the 10.04 version
[05:31] <holstein> the LTS
[05:32] <holstein> Xenicide: you'll *never* figure out how to install xubuntu into a hard drive you are booted into
[05:33] <TVasEyes> dnoir: do you see the file's contents?
[05:33] <holstein> you can do some things like that maybe by 'nesting' puppy linux or knoppix...
[05:33] <Xenicide> holstein: Is it easy to uppgrade from 10.04 to 11.10 within the OS?
[05:33] <dnoir> yes the only difference is i did not use capitals in [seatdefaults] should i corrct that?
[05:33] <holstein> Xenicide: i personally wouldnt
[05:34] <holstein> i would wait for 12.04... or just run 10.04 on that hardware
[05:34] <TVasEyes> dnoir: yes, must be exactly like shown, including capitalisation.
[05:34] <holstein> you would need to upgrade to 10.10, then 11.04.. so on..
[05:34] <holstein> you can jump right from 10.04 to 12.04.. but i wouldnt with those specs
[05:35] <dnoir> do I type vi lightdm.conf again to edit text in vi?
[05:35] <TVasEyes> dnoir: to correct (this will be fun), start vi again with the filename, ie vi lightdm.conf<Enter>
[05:36] <dnoir> done sorry I am a city planner not a programmer
[05:36] <TVasEyes> dnoir: then move your cursor over the the s in seatdefaults, and press r (which means replace) followed by <Shift>s to get the caital.
[05:36] <TVasEyes> capital*
[05:37] <TVasEyes> dnoir: you should see the s having changed to S.
[05:38] <TVasEyes> dnoir:  ok?
[05:39] <dnoir> yes i have replaced the text correctly although I accidently inserted a black line above the text, hope that doesn't matter
[05:39] <dnoir> i mean a blank line
[05:40] <dnoir> do I type :wq again?
[05:40] <TVasEyes> dnoir: shouldn't matter, but to remove it you can (with your cursor on the empty line) type dd
[05:40] <Xenicide> holstein: Maybe its my fault thinking linux will always be as advanced as dos.
[05:40] <Xenicide> Is there a big difference between 10.04 too 10.10 and 11.04?
[05:40] <TVasEyes> dnoir: have you replace the D in SeatDefaults?
[05:41] <dnoir> yes
[05:41] <TVasEyes> ok, yes, :wq<Enter>
[05:41] <dnoir> removed the lines as well
[05:41] <dnoir> great done
[05:41] <TVasEyes> dnoir: again, cat lightdm.conf to see and verify that all is as it should.
[05:42] <dnoir> yep looks good to me
[05:43] <TVasEyes> dnoir: cool, now all that remains is getting the file to its place, the command is: sudo cp lightdm.conf /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[05:43] <TVasEyes> cp is for CoPy
[05:46] <dnoir> ok it asked for my password which I typed and pressed enter
[05:46] <TVasEyes> dnoir: now verify that everything went well:  ls /etc/lightdm  to see the file in the directory (or folder if you come from Windows)
[05:47] <dnoir> ok it responded with 4 lines of text
[05:47] <dnoir> lightdm.conf
[05:47] <dnoir> lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
[05:48] <dnoir> lightdm-gtk-greeter-ubuntu.conf
[05:48] <dnoir> user.conf
[05:48] <TVasEyes> dnoir: looks ok, after rebooting autologin should come into force.
[05:50] <dnoir> great thanks tvaseyes, my first foray into ubuntu coding has been fun, will report back
[05:50] <TVasEyes> dnoir: see you then.
[06:13] <dnoir> thanks tvaseyes everything seems to be working well, i also figured out how to remove the xscreensaver package with synaptic, so I don't have that login either
[06:14] <TVasEyes> dnoir: glad to hear, hope you'll get to like GNU/Linux.
[06:16] <dnoir> yeh i already like customising things, I got a netbook which had crappy windows software so I tried meego for a while, now I am trying xubuntu and gonna switch my desktop to ubuntu also
[06:19] <TVasEyes> dnoir: on a personal note, password/logins do have a purpose, especially if it's a netbook/laptop which you might leave laying around where others can access them.
[06:22] <dnoir> I am not too worried about that, nothing overly valuable on my netbook, will keep that in mind for my desktop tho
[06:25] <TVasEyes> dnoir: ok, another tip, on the command-line if you're looking for some way to do something, use apropos, eg. apropos editor will show commands relating to editors, then use man <name-of-program> to find out more, start with man man. ;)
[06:30] <Xenicide> Is passwords not for quick protection, or is linux more secure than windows?
[06:31] <dnoir> looks like i got some reading to do;) thanks again!
[06:33] <TVasEyes> Xenicide: there are CD's which will remove existing Windows passwords to allow login without, I don't know of anything like that for *NIX.
[06:38] <Xenicide> TVasEyes: I didnt know that. But i do have experience getting acess to a win7 comp by using linux.
[06:41] <atruno> both linux and windows have pros and cons all the pros about windows usually require the purchase of software.  alot of its open source ports don't render as nicely.
[06:42] <atruno> is anyone here using nautilus in xubuntu ?
[06:44] <TVasEyes> atruno: not me,sorry.
[06:44] <atruno> you'd have to disable rescue mode in your kernels on linux to have better security.
[06:44] <TVasEyes> atruno: & encrpyt the partitions which matter.
[06:44] <TVasEyes> encrypt*
[06:45] <atruno> does that mess things up when you install a newer version ?  does not also involve password prompt per partition on boot ?
[06:48] <TVasEyes> atruno: not sure about newer version, am fairly new to Xubuntu and the Ubuntu way is very different from, say, slackware.  you'd use the same password/key for all, I would have thought.
[06:53] <TVasEyes> atruno: do you mount all your partitions at boot time?
[06:54] <atruno> only when i have encryped under other linux.  it prompted me for pass which was a pain.
[06:55] <TVasEyes> atruno: may be worth it for laptops/netbooks.
[06:55] <atruno> true
[06:56] <atruno> i had a laptop stolen from me.  it had my dads loaned american express in a odt file.
[06:57] <TVasEyes> I think you can get PCMCIA cards which take care of the business.
[10:08] <Linze> How can i keep my toolbar at the buutom
[10:09] <Linze> Somewere in the preference
[10:44] <TheSheep> Linze: toolbar?
[10:44] <TheSheep> Linze: buutom?
[10:45] <TheSheep> Linze: can you clarify?
[10:46] <Linze> TheSheep,Good morning
[10:46] <Linze> Sorry I already found
[10:47] <Linze> Iam just new to ubuntu cq linux
[10:47] <Linze> But looks very oke
[10:47] <Linze> Can i change the wallpaper in what ever i want?
[10:49] <TheSheep> sure, in settings->desktop
[10:49] <TheSheep> just click on the plus below the list
[10:50] <Linze> ok
[10:53] <Linze> I `ve another question
[10:54] <Linze> I installed sollarium,but can`t start it up
[10:54] <Linze> Has it something to do with "session and startup"
[10:54] <TheSheep> what is sollarium?
[10:55] <Linze> sientific,starprogram
[10:55] <TheSheep> what is the error message you get?
[10:56] <Linze> don`t know what happend just now,but my screen is frozen
[11:00] <Linze> Well after the reboot I can start up stellarium
[13:41] <Lectus> Hi! Where can I submit bugs to Xubuntu dev team? I think I found one.
[17:16] <Singap_Cougar> hello everybory
[17:17] <diskroll> hello
[17:49] <PingJocky> hello rom
[18:30] <popsch> is there a cli command that returns the current workspace number?
[19:16] <ToZ> popsch, see: http://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=3030
[19:55] <Singap_Cougar> hello
[19:55] <Singap_Cougar> hello everybory
[19:56] <Singap_Cougar> coul you help me. does anibody know how sync by bluetooth nokia symbian s 60 to xubuntu?
[21:41] <Crash_O-D> wheni hook laptop to tv via hdmi i get video but no sound, i changed sound under mixer to use hda ati hdmi (alsa mixer) nothing, even tried playback: rv710/730 digital stero (hdmi) (pulseAudio Mixer) nothing changed to
[21:46] <holstein> Crash_O-D: you can try installing pavucontrol
[21:46] <holstein> that could just *never* work
[21:48] <Crash_O-D> will try. under ubuntu it worked but not under x
[21:49] <holstein> Crash_O-D: OH... thats good
[21:49] <holstein> you just have to find out what you need to add then
[21:49] <holstein> was it the same version?
[21:49] <holstein> xubuntu and ubuntu 11.10?
[21:50] <Crash_O-D> yes, but under ubuntu i needed not extra work
[21:50] <holstein> Crash_O-D: install ubuntu
[21:51] <holstein> then, install xfce
[21:51] <holstein> otherwise, you'll need to look and see what you'll need to add to xubuntu
[21:51] <Crash_O-D> well i installed xubuntu why i need to figure sound
[21:51] <holstein> xGrind: ?
[21:51] <holstein> xGrind: sorry
[21:51] <holstein> Crash_O-D: ?
[21:52] <Crash_O-D> ** (pavucontrol:7441): DEBUG: Error reading config file /home/crash/.config/pavucontrol.ini: No such file or directory
[21:52] <Crash_O-D> ** (pavucontrol:7441): DEBUG: Failed to initialize device manager extension: No such extension
[21:52] <holstein> Crash_O-D: maybe you dont have pulseaudio and thats the issue
[21:52] <holstein> i forget if xubuntu has pulse by default
[21:53] <Crash_O-D> it did not i had to install it
[21:53] <holstein> ok, so theres probably something else fiddly then
[21:53] <holstein> i would just install ubuntu, and install xfce
[21:57] <Crash_O-D> lol after setting up all i did would take days to get were i am
[21:57] <holstein> sure
[21:57] <holstein> but with audio :)
[21:57] <holstein> you can save your /home
[21:57] <Crash_O-D> i have comp speakers just not via hdmi
[21:58] <holstein> anyways, you *can* figure it out
[21:58] <holstein> its going to be challenging though
[21:58] <holstein> you can try installing the uubntu-desktop metapackage
[21:59] <holstein> at least select it, and look at what all wants to be pulled in
[22:01] <Crash_O-D> how i get that package
[22:01] <holstein> ubuntu-desktop?
[22:01] <holstein> its a meta-package
[22:02] <holstein> it'll want to pull in a bunch of stuff
[22:02] <Crash_O-D> oh okay never mind
[22:02] <Crash_O-D> on that
[22:02] <holstein> i would open synaptic, search it, and select it
[22:02] <holstein> look and see what all wants to be pulled in
[22:02] <holstein> the answer should be one of those packages
[22:03] <Crash_O-D> okay thanks
[22:03] <yakeb> Hi all,  I am attempting to install xubuntu to a usb flash drive, as my hard drive took a dive.. I was wondering if a.)  this is even possible and b..) there are any additional steps in need to take during install-as it appears to be stuck on a black screen with a spinning circle.
[22:03] <holstein> yakeb: i would do it just like normal
[22:03] <holstein> i would want to see xubuntu running live on the system *before* installing
[22:04] <yakeb> Also,  I know how to make a bootable flash drive for install, but I am trying to do a complete install to flash drive.
[22:04] <holstein> i would install selecting the USB drive as the destination in the installer
[22:04] <holstein> GRUB will go there, and all should be as normal
[22:05] <yakeb> The system had xubuntu on it before and it boots into the livecd and the live usb flash drive just fine.
[22:05] <holstein> cool
[22:05] <holstein> so, you just select the USB as the destination
[22:06] <holstein> i assume the 'dead' hard drive is out?
[22:07] <yakeb> I selected the usb drive as the destination and everything seemed fine but I think it is stuck now, it has been on a black screen with a spinning circle for an hour or longer.  Perhaps this is normally, though I don't recall an install taking this long in the past.
[22:07] <holstein> it?
[22:07] <holstein> the installer?
[22:08] <holstein> it'll take as long as it takes to write to the USB
[22:08] <holstein> if its slower, it'll take longer
[22:08] <yakeb> Yes I pulled out the old hard drive before running the install.
[22:08] <yakeb> Toshiba a205 series,  not new but not ancient.
[22:09] <holstein> wont matter, as long as it boots USB, or you use something like plop
[22:09] <yakeb> Bios supports usb boot
[22:09] <yakeb> What's plop?
[22:10] <holstein> a way to boot USB from CD when the bios *doesnt* support that
[22:11] <yakeb> It's usb 2.0 bus-I would think it would be faster writing to flash than to an satanic drive, perhaps I'm mistaken.
[22:11] <yakeb> *sata.
[22:13] <yakeb> Hey,  thanks for all your input... I guess I'll just wait a while longer and see what happens.
[23:21] <w30> Are any menu editors available for xfce4 or is there an alacarte deb available without installing unity, gnome, and compiz?
[23:22] <holstein> http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
[23:23] <holstein> w30: looks like LXMenuEditor works as well
[23:27] <w30> holstein, where did you find that at? putting LXMenuEditor in search in Synaptic finds nothing.
[23:31] <w30> holstein, nevermind, i see your url now.
[23:37] <w30> holstein, thanks, I will install that and see how it works.


[02:39] <Mez> Riddell: ping
[02:39] <Mez> need a sponsored main kde upload
[02:40] <Riddell> Mez: hi
[02:40] <Mez> Riddell, http://www.sourceguru.net/ubuntu/breeezy/meta-kde
[02:40] <Mez> sorry
[02:40] <Mez> Riddell, http://www.sourceguru.net/ubuntu/breezy/meta-kde
[02:40] <Mez> Unmet Deps fix
[02:42] <Mez> Just added 2 characters to the control file... can you re-sogn and upload please?
[02:44] <Riddell> kdelibs3-bin, wonder how many people still expect that to be around
[02:44] <Riddell> Mez: meta-kde is universe
[02:44] <Mez> *shrugs*
[02:44] <Mez> Riddell, not according to packages.ubuntu.com
[02:45] <Mez> it was for warty
[02:45] <Mez> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin//search_packages.pl?version=all&subword=0&exact=1&arch=any&releases=all&case=insensitive&keywords=meta-kde&searchon=sourcenames
[02:45] <Riddell> ah, in main for kde-core
[02:46] <Mez> :D
[02:47] <Riddell> what's the magic debuild switch to make it signed with my key?
[02:47] <Mez> -kyour@email
[02:48] <Riddell> uploaded, well spotted
[02:48] <Mez> :)
[02:48] <Mez> httos://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseUnmetDeps
[02:48] <Mez> :P
[02:48] <Mez> apparently doesnt just pick up universe
[02:49] <Riddell> well kde-core is in universe
[02:49] <Riddell> sorry, kdelibs3-bin is
[02:49] <Mez> lol
[02:49] <Mez> *shrugs*
[02:49] <Mez> thats prob y then
[10:44] <pef> hi
[10:45] <OculusAquilae> hi pef


[05:29] <senan> balloons, hey :)
[07:14] <DanChapman> good morning
[19:45] <jmunsch> would like to get my feet wet. ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1272096  ) I'm downloading the 14.04 daily build .iso ... but that seems like the incorrect way to go about this. Should I be pulling upstream code from launchpad? or am I missing something here.
[20:15] <Noskcaj> jmunsch, Testing should be done on 14.04, so you're doing it right
[20:21] <FabioMazzo> Hello!
[20:21] <Noskcaj> hey FabioMazzo
[20:21] <FabioMazzo> Im view a problem with battery indicator in ubuntu 13.10, how i open a bug ticket?
[20:22] <FabioMazzo> PS: 17 years ago that was not on IRC
[20:23] <Noskcaj> FabioMazzo, "ubuntu-bug package"
[20:23] <Noskcaj> What battery indicator do you use?
[20:23] <FabioMazzo> i dont know
[20:24] <FabioMazzo> i used it in Samsung utrabook 5
[20:24] <Noskcaj> Then what OS are you on?
[20:24] <FabioMazzo> and when i plug
[20:24] <FabioMazzo> 13.10
[20:24] <Noskcaj> as in ubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu
[20:24] <FabioMazzo> Ubuntu,
[20:26] <FabioMazzo> battery level is ok but no indicates charching status
[20:26] <Noskcaj>  then "ubuntu-bug indicator-power"
[20:26] <FabioMazzo> ok
[20:26] <FabioMazzo> thanks!
[20:54] <jmunsch> Noskcaj : thnx


[02:31] <lifeless> poolie: re 1.2: the launchpad tests are still broken
[02:32] <lifeless> poolie: I think this is release critical
[02:32] <lifeless> poolie: also there are other critical bugs IIRC
[03:04] <poolie> (back)
[03:05] <lifeless> poolie: see scrollback
[03:09] <abentley> lifeless: I profiled a launchpad checkout with my fast-iter-changes code, and index.iter_entries was only 24%.  file.seek was 31.19
[03:10] <lifeless> abentley: I think lsprof islying
[03:10] <lifeless> seek shouldn't be doing IO :)
[03:12] <abentley> Well, no, but it must be doing something...
[03:13] <abentley> It's being called 14, 308 times.
[03:21] <bignose> my revspec fu is failing me
[03:22] <bignose> 'bzr diff --revision "date:2008-01-28..before:date:2008-02-03" fails
[03:22] <bignose> bzr: ERROR: Invalid revision-id {None} in KnitRepository('file:///home/benf/Projects/.bzr/repository/')
[03:22] <bignose> presumably because it doesn't have any revisions *on* 2008-02-03
[03:23] <bob2> what a friendly error
[03:23] <bignose> but I'm specifically asking for all revisions *before* that date, so I don't think it should spit an error
[03:23] <bignose> $ bzr --version
[03:23] <bignose> Bazaar (bzr) 1.1.0.candidate.1
[03:23] <bignose> this is being run from an automated script, that doesn't know what the last date in the branch is.
[03:24] <bignose> how can I supply a "date:foo..before:date:bar" range without that error?
[03:24] <lifeless> bignose: strange, perhaps before:date:2008-01-29 ?
[03:25] <bignose> lifeless: I'm not sure what you're asking. the date range I have is "date foo, through to before (foo + one week)"
[03:25] <bignose> I have no way of knowing that (foo + one week) is the last date, without a lot of mucking about
[03:25] <bignose> s/is the last date/is *past* the last date/
[03:25] <lifeless> bignose: I'm saying that if you don't know of a commit that will match, you should ask for the first commit before the date you want it to match
[03:26] <bignose> lifeless: that's exactly why the range I gave above is bounded by "..before:date:2008-02-03"
[03:26] <lifeless> bignose: you're not using before on both sides though are you?
[03:27] <bignose> no.
[03:27] <lifeless> which is what I was suggesting
[03:27] <bignose> but, AFAICT, it's the upper bound that causes it to fail
[03:27] <bignose> because the range "date:2008-01-28..-1" works fine
[03:27] <lifeless> oh
[03:27] <lifeless> in which case, welcome to bugs
[03:27] <lifeless> please file one :)
[03:28] <bignose> okay. someone else will need to do that, because Launchpad doesn't let me file bugs without creating an account.
[03:30] <lifeless> done
[03:30] <lifeless> neither does bugzilla, or trac, nor nearly any other bugtracker though
[03:31] <lifeless> so its a bit of a specious argument against using it :)
[03:31] <bignose> most good ones allow bug submission via email
[03:31] <lifeless> I just submitted that bug by email
[03:31] <bignose> by email, without requiring specific registration with the system
[03:32] <lifeless> I'm only aware of one system that allows that - debbugs
[03:32] <bignose> anyway: thank you for submitting the report
[03:32] <lifeless> poolie: did you see my comments on 1.2 ?
[03:32] <lifeless> bignose: no problem
[03:33] <bignose> debbugs, roundup, gnats, ...
[03:34] <lifeless> I would never call gnats a good system.
[03:40] <lifeless> roundup I haven't used enough to comment on
[03:41] <ubotu> New bug: #191156 in bzr "bug in revision specs before:date: ?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191156
[03:47] <abentley> lifeless: What was that memory ceiling you were suggesting for iter_files_bytes?
[03:58] <lifeless> abentley: 10M or something
[03:58] <lifeless> on a 100M tree thats 10-20 * latency multiplier, which is tolerable
[03:58] <lifeless> and on most trees its a tiny fraction
[03:58] <lifeless> single files > that have to exceed it of course
[04:00] <abentley> Yes.  Actually with a 100K ceiling, local checkouts of bzr.dev are fast.
[04:00] <lifeless> I'm thinking network to some degree. but lets say 1MB then
[04:00] <lifeless> remembering that some exceptional trees (moz) may actually need 10M or something
[04:01] <Toksyuryel> bignose: bugtrackers are a major spam magnet, requiring accounts help to limit it
[04:01] <abentley> Sure.  Easily tweaked.
[04:01] <abentley> lifeless: Need it because of individual file size?  That's covered.
[04:01] <lifeless> abentley: no, file count
[04:02] <abentley> I'm not sure whether it would be much faster even with a much larger buffer.
[04:03] <lifeless> abentley: I'm thinking sftp lightweight branches/ shallow checkouts
[04:03] <lifeless> abentley: unrelated question, when I have shallow branches working I'm thinking that 'bzr checkout foo' should create a shallow branch
[04:03] <lifeless> abentley: so the difference between that and --lightweight is whether data accumulates locally or not
[04:04] <lifeless> abentley: and have an option '--deep' or --full or something, to get the current deep copy
[04:04] <abentley> That sounds reasonable to me.
[04:05] <lifeless> cool
[04:05] <abentley> I think lighweight is too light for a default when dealing with remote branches.
[04:06] <abentley> But when dealing with remote branches, lots of people would complain if it was too heavy, also.
[04:07] <lifeless> so I htink a good default is a shallow branch with one copy of each text
[04:07] <lifeless> for pushing I think an option to say 'cheap', and then a shallow branch with unique deltas only
[04:08] <i386> lifeless: cant find the fab source code!
[04:08] <abentley> lifeless: I would consider going 10% higher than one-copy-of-each, just for the improved merging.
[04:09] <lifeless> i386: https://edge.launchpad.net/fab
[04:09] <lifeless> abentley: one copy of each will have up to 50 or so texts due to the delta chains
[04:09] <lifeless> abentley: so on merge we'll often only need to grab the revision data
[04:09] <reggie> why would I be getting a repo not compatible error on a bzr branch?
[04:09] <lifeless> (as inventories are delta'd too)
[04:10] <lifeless> reggie: bzr-svn has been used on one end
[04:10] <reggie> lifeless, hmm.
[04:10] <lifeless> abentley: What I mean here, is yes - I've considered that, and think it'll be ok
[04:10] <lifeless> reggie: the bzr svn faq talks about this
[04:11] <reggie> ok, let me go look
[04:11] <abentley> lifeless: Probably.
[04:12] <reggie> lifeless, not sure that is it. let me show you the error
[04:12] <abentley> The issue is, what if the "bound" repo is unreachable, and the repo you're merging doesn't have those revisions.
[04:13] <abentley> s/bound/master/
[04:14] <reggie> pack-0.92 is the latest repo format?
[04:14] <reggie> no.  rich-root is latest I guess
[04:16] <reggie> hmm.  both local and remote repo report as pack-0.92
[04:16] <abentley> reggie: Not sure what you mean by latest.
[04:17] <abentley> Current default is pack-0.92.
[04:17] <abentley> rich-root and rich-root-pack are newer than that.
[04:17] <reggie> abentley, well I did a svn-import on ubuntu and then did a push from that repo onto a different server
[04:17] <reggie> so far so good
[04:18] <reggie> now I'm trying to do a bzr branch from that second repo onto a windows machine and get a repo not compatible
[04:19] <reggie> the error says something like KnitPackRespository(u'file:///<path>) is not compatible with respository RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://...)
[04:19] <abentley> Right.  So you don't really care what's latest, just what's compatible.
[04:20] <abentley> rich-root-pack ought to be compatible.
[04:20] <reggie> I pushed from a rich-root to a 0.92. now I'm trying to branch from a 0.92 to a 0.92
[04:22] <reggie> hmm.  it has to have something to do with svn since I now attempted a branch of a non-svn import between the same repos and it works
[04:23] <abentley> Well, 0.92 is compatible with 0.92, so I can't see causing the error you're seeing.
[04:23] <reggie> I think I found the problem.  my repo still have parent set as the svn parent
[04:23] <abentley> bzr-svn requires a rich-root format.
[04:24] <abentley> At least the 0.4 series does.  the 0.3 series didn't.
[04:25] <reggie> can I take a branch that is parented on svn+ssh and break the relatinoship or do Ihave to re-import?
[04:25] <lifeless> abentley: shallow branches will be unusable offline in the first instance, because they don't consider the non-local data to be ghosts.
[04:25] <abentley> reggie: The parent is just the default pull location.
[04:26] <abentley> You can set it to anything with pull --remember.
[04:26] <abentley> But it really shouldn't matter.
[04:27] <reggie> oh.  so branches can have their own format?  I thought that was repo wide
[04:28] <abentley> It is repo wide.  The parent has nothing to do with the format.
[04:28] <reggie> so is rich-root unstable?
[04:29] <reggie> should it be avoided currently?
[04:30] <reggie> got it.
[04:30] <reggie> abentley & lifeless: thx
[04:44] <abentley> reggie: rich-root is stable, in the sense that it will not change.
[04:44] <pooliex> lifeless, abentley, i would say bug 189757 is high, but not critical for 1.2
[04:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189757 in bzr "Interrupted initial push leads to branch reference" [Critical,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189757
[04:45] <abentley> pooliex: that was my feeling.
[04:45] <pooliex> ok
[04:45] <pooliex> do you think it'll be reproducible
[04:46] <abentley> pooliex: In the sense that I can write a test case for it, sure.  But it will only happen if the interruption happens at the right time.
[04:49] <pooliex> so you could deterministically reproduce that interruption from a test script, but it's not certain people will hit it
[04:50] <lifeless> I think folk have on lp
[04:51] <pooliex> lifeless, would you please make a 1.2 pqm branch for me?
[04:55] <lifeless> pooliex: done
[04:56] <pooliex> should i register it?
[05:06] <lifeless> under ~bzr yes :0
[05:08] <abentley> pooliex: The necessary ingredient is a .bzr control directory with no branch directory in it.
[05:23] <lifeless> right, patch away
[05:23] <lifeless> pooliex: I'm done for the day; any last requests ?
[05:28] <pooliex> lifeless, so that branch exists but is empty?
[05:28] <pooliex> lifeless, just wanted to check with you that i'm planning to fix only the launchpad plugin bug, and the dirstate bug, for 1.2rc1
[05:29] <pooliex> have just sent mail to that effect
[05:29] <pooliex> can't think of anything else
[05:35] <lifeless> pooliex: the branch exists and I've pushed bzr's trunk into it
[05:35] <lifeless> pooliex: I would have to look to find other thins to do :)
[05:35] <pooliex> yes, i see now
[05:36] <pooliex> just a lag in lp between mirroring and scanning
[05:36] <pooliex> have a good night!
[05:36] <lifeless> just ordred a new dishwasher :)
[05:42] <i386> lifeless: what was wrong with the old one?
[05:42] <lifeless> I'm getting a little rusty.
[05:43] <i386> lifeless: :)
[06:18] <abentley> lifeless: I'm off to bed, but what would you think of the old-style shallow checkouts (with lots of ghosts) as a default?
[06:42] <lifeless> abentley: I think its easier to get to checkouts that require you online; so we can and should do that first
[06:42] <lifeless> abentley: we can look at soft-handling missing-key errors later IMO
[09:45] <ubotu> New bug: #191203 in bzr "Error at second commit in same dir" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191203
[10:36] <Peng> The "0.12-release-process" blueprint depends on nested trees. Oops? :)
[11:59] <lifeless> gnight
[13:04] <Lunkwill> i'm looking at http://bazaar-vcs.org/Specs/Tagging which says this was implemented in 0.15
[13:04] <dato> yes
[13:04] <Lunkwill> yet that's the only doc I can find that mentions versioned tags
[13:05] <dato> tags are not versioned
[13:05] <Lunkwill> iow, tags aren't implemented according to the spec I just pasted?
[13:07] <dato> doesn't seem to be the case, indeed
[13:07] <jamesh> Lunkwill: there is some documentation on tags in the users guide
[13:09] <Lunkwill> jamesh: yes. basically it says "use bzr tag to tag" and "use bzr tags to list tags"
[13:12] <Lunkwill> just looking into different DVCSes and some devs I know tried to convince me bzr had versioned tags, but the above mentioned url was the only "doc" they could refer to
[15:54] <AnMaster> is there a command like git bisect for bzr? that is perform a binary search for what revision introduced a bug in a simple wway
[15:54] <AnMaster> way*
[16:01] <AnMaster> if there is nothing like git bisect then is there at least any way to change the working tree to reflect another revision temporarily than HEAD?
[16:02] <hmeland> AnMaster: See https://launchpad.net/bzr-bisect/ (which I have zero experience with)
[16:02] <bob2> bzr revert -r XXX
[16:02] <AnMaster> ah
[16:16] <reggie> anyone use (or write) svn2bzr?
[16:18] <reggie> or any subversion import specialists around?
[16:22] <reggie> anyone know if there is an easy way to adjust the rev-ids on a series of revisions?
[16:29] <reggie> !seen jelmer
[16:29] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen jelmer - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[16:30] <reggie> !tz jelmer
[16:30] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about tz jelmer - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[17:44] <ignas> hi
[17:45] <ignas> is there a way to perform something analogous to "svn import" using bzr?
[17:45] <ignas> i would like to get a repository with all the files in some directory without modifying that directory in any way ...
[17:46] <luks> not sure what exacltly svn import does, but maybe: bzr add && bzr ci -m 'Import of ...'
[17:46] <ignas> like bzr import /path/to/my/new/repo /path/to/stuff/i/have/readonly/access/to/
[17:46] <luks> hmm
[17:46] <ignas> well bzr init + bzr add creates a repository in the original place
[17:46] <ignas> and i'd like to avoid the "cp -r" part if it's possible
[17:46]  * luks is a bit confused
[17:47] <luks> that sounds like a branch, not import
[17:47] <luks> or is /path/to/stuff/i/have/readonly/access/to/ not a bzr branch?
[17:47] <ignas> yes it's not
[17:48] <luks> then I guess bzr init/cp/bzr add/bzr ci is the only way
[17:48] <ignas> i see
[17:48] <ignas> thanks
[17:50] <dato> ignas: bzrtools provides `bzr import`
[17:50] <dato> ignas: which does what you want
[17:51] <ignas> dato: bzrtool
[17:51] <ignas> i mean thanks
[17:51] <dato> you're welcome
[17:59] <fullermd> jam: Q for you when you have a minute...
[18:00] <jam> fullermd: go for it
[18:01] <fullermd> jam: Just curious as to whether the speedups you're doing on annotate would also speed up weave/knit merges.
[18:01] <fullermd> Or if they're just local to ann.
[18:02] <jam> I think there are bits to bothe
[18:02] <jam> sorry both
[18:02] <jam> I think Aaron made a case for LCA merge which is very similar to knit merge
[18:02] <jam> when there are multiple ancestors
[18:02] <jam> and is otherwise 3-way
[18:02] <jam> and does a little bit better about not needing to do full annotations.
[18:03] <jam> as for my changes..... if knit merge is implemented as "give me the full annotation, and then compute the merge" then yes, it would effect it
[18:03] <jam> so probably it would help, but I wouldn't guarantee anything just yet
[18:04]  * fullermd nods.
[18:04] <fullermd> Good 'nuff for me.  Thanks.
[18:04] <jam> fullermd: do you use knit merge often?
[18:04] <fullermd> Hardly ever.  I almost never hit something 3way doesn't handle just fine (or at least, when I do, knit doesn't help)
[18:05] <fullermd> Just something I wondered about skimming the mails about it.
[18:07] <jam> ultimately, I think we'll need a cache of some sort
[18:08] <jam> because history gets longer, and any annotation algorithm is generally going to just get solwer
[18:08] <jam> slower
[18:08] <jam> I've just been pushing that down the stack, since this code should be cleaned up anyway
[18:09] <fullermd> Well, better a cache to speed up a fundamentally slow operation, than a cache to speed up a fundamentally slow operation with a pessimized implementation   :)
[18:10] <sistpoty|work> hi, when I want to commit, bzr tells me that I would already hold a lock (with the pid of the very bzr process, that tries to commit)... any clues?
[18:11] <beuno> sistpoty|work, you can break the lock with:"  bzr break-lock
[18:11] <beuno> some process must of hung while pushing/commiting
[18:11] <sistpoty|work> beuno: nope, then the same error occurs again
[18:11] <jam> sistpoty|work: it sounds like you are working on a heavy checkout in the same repository
[18:12] <jam> aka "bzr init-repo repo; cd repo; bzr checkout a b; cd b; commit"
[18:13] <jam> which sounds like bug #95004
[18:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 95004 in bzr "commit into checkout fails when shared repository used" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/95004
[18:13] <sistpoty|work> jam: hm... might indeed be possible... I'll try s.th.
[18:13] <jam> sistpoty|work: so one workaround is to use  a"lightweight" checkout, since that actually shares the branch and doesn't try to open the repo 2 times
[18:14] <jam> I believe you can do "bzr reconfigure --lightweight" in newer versions of bzr
[18:14] <jam> check "bzr help reconfigure"
[18:14] <sistpoty|work> jam: actually it was a leightweight checkout...
[18:16] <jam> I don't know why a lightweight checkout would do that... Are you sure the branch it is a checkout of isn't bound to another branch in the repository?
[18:16] <sistpoty|work> however there might be s.th. wrong in the first place, since I've got a .bzr directory at /srv/revu.repo and my checkout was lying in /srv/revu.repo/sistpoty (from /srv/revu.repo/production)
[18:16] <jam> a few "bzr info" calls might help sort things out
[18:23] <sistpoty|work> jam: hm... so /srv/revu.repo/production is a branch from shared repository: /srv/revu.repo... and I had a leigthweight checkout in /srv/revu.repo/sistpoty from /srv/revu.repo/production, when the error occured
[18:24] <sistpoty|work> jam: however doing that checkout from a different directory solved the problem, thanks!
[18:25] <jam> sistpoty|work: I'm glad you got it sorted out. Though I'm guessing you might want to post a bit of a comment on the bug
[18:25] <jam> just to remind us all that it is still present
[18:25] <sistpoty|work> jam: will do, once I'm home from work... thanks again!
[18:41] <jelmer_> reggie: hi
[18:42] <reggie> jelmer_, hey.
[18:42] <reggie> was just about to get a bite to eat and then I had another svn-import issue for ya
[18:43] <jelmer_> reggie: I'll be away in a couple of minutes as well, back at ~8:30 PM (CET)
[18:51] <reggie> jelmer, bac
[18:51] <reggie> you have to leave now
[18:52] <reggie> I think you can answer my svn-import question pretty quick
[19:44] <synic> abentley: that developer is back online with information about what corrupted that branch
[20:11] <fbond> Hi, I ran out of memory trying to bzr branch an svn repo... Does svn-import handle this situation better?
[20:27] <bob2> fbond: upgrading your python subversion bindings might help
[20:42] <lifeless> moin
[20:42] <thatch> howdy
[22:23] <reggie> jelmer, you back?
[22:24] <jelmer> reggie: hi
[22:30] <reggie> jelmer, my question is about the revision id mapping
[22:31] <reggie> I want the bzr tree to be separate.  I won't be pushing or pulling to/from the  svn tree
[22:31] <reggie> but when my svn branch moves from trunk to branch, then the imported bzr tree uses different revision ids.  so different branches don't merge right
[22:32] <reggie> maybe I did something wrong?
[22:32] <jelmer> reggie: how do you mean different revision ids?
[22:32] <jelmer> reggie: Every revision has its own revision id
[22:32] <jelmer> which should be unique
[22:32] <reggie> right.  I use the trunk scheme so I work on trunk until I release a product at which point I branch it.  pretty standard
[22:33] <reggie> so my product has branches 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, and trunk
[22:33] <reggie> trunk being what will be 5.3
[22:33] <jelmer> reggie: in /trunk and /branches/5.0, /branches/5.1, etc?
[22:33] <reggie> right
[22:33] <jelmer> I don't see the problem
[22:34] <reggie> as we talked about yesterday I had to individually import the branches because my 1.0 branch shows that bug
[22:34] <reggie> so I did --prefix=branches/5 on my import
[22:34] <reggie> and it seemed to do what I wanted
[22:34] <reggie> now what I expect to be able to do is
[22:35] <reggie> when I make a change in 5.0, I expect to be able to commit it and then pull that change up into 5.1 and then pull from 5.1 into 5.2
[22:35] <mtaylor> reggie: I expect the same thing
[22:35] <jelmer> reggie: You mean merge, not pull
[22:35] <mtaylor> reggie: hello, btw
[22:35] <reggie> jelmer, ok. I'm coming from bk so forgive my terminology ignorance
[22:35] <reggie> mtaylor, hey
[22:35] <jelmer> reggie: unless 5.0 and 5.1 contain *exactly* the same data, and
[22:36] <reggie> ok, so I do a merge from 5.1 to 5.2 and it shows *lots* of changes (it shouldn't)
[22:36] <reggie> so I worked with it with chad miller (not sure if you know him)
[22:37] <reggie> and it seems that bzr thinks that the last common revision was 384 (in my case).  the last revision in 5.1 was like 490
[22:37] <jelmer> reggie: It will merge from the latest common revision between 5.1 and 5.2
[22:37] <jelmer> reggie: is this a public repository?
[22:38] <reggie> jelmer, we have a public copy of it yes
[22:38] <reggie> yes, I know what the merge will do but bzr is trying to merge > 100 changes.  months and months of work mainly because the revision ids don't match
[22:39] <jelmer> reggie: What's the URL of that repository? If I can have a look at the actual data it may be a bit easier to comment
[22:39] <reggie> because it was at revision 354 that 5.1 moved off trunk and into branch
[22:39] <reggie> just a sec
[22:39] <reggie> http://svn.mysql.com/svnpublic/connector-net/
[22:40] <reggie> mtaylor, feel free to stop me if you have this already figured out  :)
[22:40] <mtaylor> reggie: nope. haven't even looked at it
[22:40] <reggie> grr.  mplayer won't play on my second monitor
[22:40] <mtaylor> reggie: is this after doing an svn-import ?
[22:41] <mtaylor> that's annoying
[22:41] <reggie> mtaylor, yes
[22:41] <mtaylor> reggie: how did you do the merges from trunk to 5.1 while it was in svn?
[22:41] <mtaylor> like, once you cloned off trunk to 5.1 at rev 354
[22:41] <reggie> mtaylor, never from trunk to 5.1
[22:41] <reggie> always up
[22:42] <reggie> from 5.0 to 5.1, 5.1 -> trunk, etc
[22:42] <mtaylor> so, you cloned 5.0 from trunk at one point... and then at a later point you cloned 5.1 from trunk
[22:42] <mtaylor> right?
[22:42] <reggie> mtaylor, we're talking svn here so no cloning
[22:42] <mtaylor> (sorry - _really_ using all the wrong words here)
[22:42] <mtaylor> sure
[22:43] <reggie> with svn you work on trunk and then at some point you branch (which basically just copies your work to another dir)
[22:43] <mtaylor> right... but when you made a change in the 5.0 branch in svn... how did you propagate that to the 5.1 branch?
[22:43] <reggie> svn merge
[22:43] <mtaylor> hm
[22:43] <jelmer> reggie: svn merge doesn't store any information
[22:43] <jelmer> reggie: merge tracking information that is
[22:43] <reggie> jelmer, I know
[22:44] <reggie> svn merging is crap
[22:44]  * mtaylor giggles
[22:44] <reggie> one of the reasons that I want to move to bzr even though we are not done with svn
[22:44] <reggie> let bzr do the heavy lifting regarding merges
[22:47] <jelmer> reggie: what's wrong with merge showing a lot of changes
[22:47] <jelmer> there are a lot of revisions that are in 5.1 and not in 5.2
[22:48] <jelmer> uhm, sorry
[22:48] <jelmer> 2 revisions are
[22:48] <jelmer> argh
[22:49] <reggie> are you using bzr-svn to see that?
[22:49] <jelmer> no, svn log
[22:49] <jelmer> yes, there are *a lot* of revision that are in 5.1 and not in 5.2
[22:50] <reggie> well, svn merge allows me to cherry pick revisions.  each branch has things (deletes, renames, etc) that I don't want merged up
[22:50] <reggie> so I skip those
[22:50] <jelmer> everything between r825 and 1175 that affects /branches/5.1
[22:50] <jelmer> is that what you were expecting as well?
[22:51] <reggie> no that's not right.
[22:53] <jelmer> reggie: what are you expecting it to do then? r824 is the last common ancestor of both 5.1 and 5.2
[22:53] <wolever> Would anyone happen to know why I'm getting "SubversionException: ("Unrecognized URL scheme for 'https://example.com/svn/project'", 170000)" using bzr-svn to get the 'svn status' of a repository?
[22:53] <jelmer> wolever: what version of bzr-svn are you using?
[22:54] <wolever> most recent -- 0.4.7
[22:54] <jelmer> is your subversion library built with ssl suppotr?
[22:55] <reggie> perhaps I've used svn merge wrong but you can see that revision 1165 is a commit to 5.2 that is the merging of revision 1104 to 1161
[22:55] <wolever> Yup -- I just re-built svn from trunk, and when I run "svn status" or "svn up" from the same directory, it doesn
[22:55] <wolever> 't have any problem
[22:55] <reggie> svn is saying that 824 is the last common ancestor because that is the last time they both sat on trunk
[22:56] <jelmer> reggie: yes, and that is what bzr will do as well. That's the last common ancestor. I don't see how it can be more intelligent than that without extra cherrypicking tracking data
[22:56] <wolever> Err, odd -- svn up just hangs, then later fails.  Time to re-build with ssl :\
[22:59] <jelmer> reggie: bzr's merge should be able to deal with similar changes in both branches pretty well though
[23:02] <chadmiller> Hi reggie.  If you're happy with the states of both trees right now, then you /could/ "cd higher; bzr merge ../lower;" and then "bzr revert .; bzr commit -m 'scorched-earth terrible idea from cmiller'" , which (IIRC) should prepare the higher tree so that it can accept merging patches from here on.
[23:02] <reggie> could line endings be tripping it up?  I get 77 conflicts but many of them have no conflict markers
[23:03]  * reggie needs a good conflict editor for bzr
[23:03] <chadmiller> Reggie on win32, yes?
[23:03] <bob2> ediff!
[23:04] <reggie> it must be line endings because I see no conflict markers
[23:04]  * reggie assumes the file.this is the merge attempt
[23:04] <chadmiller> No, just "file" is.
[23:04] <reggie> ahh
[23:04] <chadmiller> foo.this is the previous version here.
[23:05] <chadmiller> It makes sense with "other".
[23:05] <reggie> chad, you said that approach would cause history issues
[23:07] <chadmiller> It would duplicate the history, yes.  "log" would be much longer.  "vizualize" (from the GTK plugin) would have one more parallel line up to now, where it would rejoin the trunk.
[23:08] <chadmiller> It's not perfect, but it may not be awful.  I bring it up again mostly to test the opinion of Bazaarkers here.
[23:08] <reggie> wait.  this is stupid.
[23:08] <poolie> hi chad
[23:08] <jelmer> reggie: Yes, it could very well be line endings
[23:08] <reggie> I need to just take the current files on all the conflicts
[23:08] <reggie> and then mark them as resolved
[23:08] <jelmer> bazaar badly needs eol support :-(
[23:08] <chadmiller> Hiya poolie.
[23:08] <jelmer> uhm, eol *conversion* support
[23:08] <reggie> eewww. you mean it doesn't
[23:08] <jelmer> our lines do actually have ends :-)
[23:10] <chadmiller> reggie: Beware of successful merges not being what you intend, then.
[23:11] <chadmiller> "bzr revert ." is probably better.
[23:12] <reggie> chadmiller, right.  was about to do a svn diff to see what the successful merges actually did
[23:12] <reggie> I wonder if I could avoid the history problem by using svn revert to revert all the successful merges, take the current file on all conflicts, and then bzr commit
[23:12] <reggie> bzr shouldn't know the diff
[23:13] <reggie> unless it gets confused by me reverting under it's nose
[23:13] <vinc456> hi, i'm trying to connect to my bzr repository from a windows machine. The ssh server is configured to only and i have configured my settings as per "http://bazaar-vcs.org/Bzr_and_SSH". I'm unable to specify my login/username though
[23:13] <reggie> since merge and commit are separated should be ok
[23:14] <chadmiller> vinc456: What "url" are you specifying?
[23:15] <vinc456> C:\Program Files\Bazaar\test>bzr branch sftp://ucalgary.hopto.org:9922/var/www/4
[23:15] <vinc456> 71Project/trunk
[23:16] <vinc456> the connection is made as i can see it in the ssh logs
[23:17] <vinc456> but something assumes that i would to log in with the username "vincent"
[23:17] <CardinalFang> Yes.  Does no sftp://vinc@ucalgary  work?
[23:17] <vinc456> and no such user exists on the system
[23:17] <vinc456> ok that worked
[23:17] <vinc456> thanks!
[23:21] <vinc456> i believe there was a script to configure so that users would not necessary need a shell account on the host machine to check out from the repository. Does anybody remember what it was called off hand?
[23:22] <beuno> vinc456, can't you just branch through http?
[23:23] <vinc456> i didn't think that bzr supported commits via http
[23:23] <beuno> vinc456, absolutely
[23:23] <beuno> http, sftp, ssh, bzr (it's own protocol)
[23:24] <vinc456> i will try http then, thanks
[23:24] <beuno> np
[23:24] <jam> vinc456: contrib/bzr_access is also available
[23:24] <jam> but it uses ssh keys
[23:25] <vinc456> the server only accepts ssh keys so that will not be a problem
[23:25] <jam> so you have 1 account that people can share, but it is limited to only running bzr
[23:25] <jam> so it isn't a full access shell account
[23:26] <vinc456> perfect, that is exactly what i'm looking for


[00:47] <bkerensa> jbicha:  another MP from another contributor... I provided some feedback on it... https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu-docs/raring/+merge/158248
[15:01] <dholbach> hiya
[15:01] <dholbach> I just updated http://pad.ubuntu.com/communitywebsite-contribute-documentation and made it a bit friendlier
[15:01] <dholbach> I'd appreciate feedback and/or fixes :)


[23:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: So on my new wonderful blog comment section, I was linked to this: http://fossforce.com/2017/03/webassembly-comes-firefox/#comment-21054
[23:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: I think that's a really interesting concept.


[00:03] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::portugal:: E264 Tudo a Postos @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e264/
[02:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Alan Pope: Small phone is best phone @ https://popey.com/blog/2023/09/small-phone-is-best-phone/
[02:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Stéphane Graber: Initial daily packages for Incus @ https://stgraber.org/2023/09/13/initial-daily-packages-for-incus/
[02:27] -ubottu:#ubuntu-news- ::planet:: Podcast Ubuntu Portugal: E264 Tudo a Postos @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/e264/


[16:41] <xnox> Laney:  do you have a bug # reference for me, or anything like that?
[16:41] <xnox> re luks2 stuff
[17:28] <Laney> xnox: dunno, need to check with integrieri because I don't see an upload to libblockdev


[00:27] <JuhayerAlWasif[m> may I ask one more question about debian?
[00:29] <kc2bez> We support (L)Ubuntu here.
[14:25] <billEss> WHO
[14:25] <billEss> WHO
[14:34] <Mekaneck> billEss: if you have a specific lubuntu support question just ask, casual talk is in #lubuntu-offtopic


[00:05] <wgrant> StevenK: More importantly you should check what the subscribers are
[00:06] <StevenK> wgrant: So I guess I should set a bug supervisor too, then
[00:07] <wgrant> Right
[00:08]  * StevenK picks wgrant.
[00:11] <StevenK> wgrant: https://bugs.qastaging.launchpad.net/auditorclient/+bug/939552 looks good to me
[00:11] <_mup_> Bug #939552: Juju should support MAAS as a provider <juju:Fix Released by allenap> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/939552 >
[00:49] <StevenK> wallyworld_, wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/contains-to-match/+merge/121354
[00:50] <wallyworld_> +1 from me
[00:51] <StevenK> wallyworld_: Thanks
[00:52] <wallyworld_> np
[01:12] <wgrant> webops: Could you ppa-reset marid, please?
[01:13] <wgrant> It's on furud
[01:13] <spm> ta
[01:16] <spm> wgrant: hmm. oki, how does one reset a single server. ppa-reset seems to be an all or nothing affair?
[01:18] <wgrant> spm: I think 'ppa-reset marid' should work
[01:19] <spm> I don't have rights for that
[01:19] <wgrant> Ah
[01:19] <wgrant> You'll have to do it from alphecca, I guess
[01:19] <wgrant> sec
[01:19] <spm> and looking at scripts, I'm going to need gsa intervention
[01:19] <wgrant> Nope
[01:20] <wgrant> ssh -i /home/lp_buildd/.ssh/ppa-reset-builder<EMAIL_ADDRESS>ppa-reset marid
[01:20] <spm> ah yes, the builddmaster would have stab ability.
[01:20] <spm> Mon, 27 Aug 2012 01:20:18 +0000: Clearing all marid Copy-On-Write devices.
[01:20] <spm> device-mapper: create ioctl failed: Device or resource busy
[01:20] <spm> Command failed
[01:20] <wgrant> That's rather unpleasant of it
[01:20] <spm> that doesn't look happy.
[01:20] <wgrant> Sounds GSAy
[01:24] <StevenK> wgrant: Shall I put together a deploy?
[01:24] <wgrant> StevenK: Worth a try
[01:26] <wallyworld_> wgrant: according to bug 1040999, branches should always be able to be marked as security fixes, with userdata only available if branch is linked to a userdata bug. so i'm going to make this change
[01:26] <_mup_> Bug #1040999: Cannot use branch information type portlet to set type <disclosure> <information-type> <javascript> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by wallyworld> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040999 >
[01:26] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Sounds reasonable
[01:27] <wallyworld_> but proprietary cannot be done just yet i don't think?
[01:27] <wgrant> It can be
[01:27] <wgrant> It should always be shown if it's allowed
[01:27] <wgrant> Like Public
[01:27] <wgrant> Hm
[01:27] <wgrant> Actually
[01:27] <wgrant> We can't really hide userdata until nobody's using BVPs
[01:28] <wallyworld_> it's always there now, but the code comments say it should only be shown if branch linked to proprietary bug
[01:28] <wgrant> That's meant to apply to Public Security, Private Security and Private
[01:28] <wgrant> Not Proprietary
[01:28]  * wgrant checks the comments
[01:29] <wgrant> Oh
[01:29] <wgrant>             # Once Proprietary is fully deployed, it should be added here.
[01:29] <wgrant> "it" == Private there
[01:29] <wgrant> I must have removed a line describing why Private wasn't included
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ok, i'll fix the comment
[01:30] <wgrant> Thanks.
[01:30] <wgrant> The idea is that we need to show Private now since it's what BVPs use for privacy
[01:30] <wallyworld_> so just to confirm, userdata is to be updated once bvps go away
[01:30] <wgrant> But once everyone's using Proprietary, Private is no longer going to be common at all for branches
[01:30] <spm> wgrant: it's being stubborn, but looked at.
[01:31] <wgrant> spm: Thanks
[01:31] <StevenK> wgrant: The amount of cowboys is terrible :-(
[01:31] <wgrant> Yeah...
[01:31] <wgrant> All of them have landed, though
[01:33] <wgrant> Only one code changes
[01:33] <wgrant> -s
[01:33] <wgrant> Rest are security.cfg
[01:33] <wgrant> So we can ndt without a problem
[01:33] <wgrant> Um
[01:33] <wgrant> Though
[01:33] <wgrant> StevenK: Have you checked for new DB perms?
[01:34] <StevenK> I have not.
[01:34]  * wgrant does so
[01:34] <StevenK> garbo is one I can think of, I think
[01:34] <wgrant> Oh
[01:34] <wgrant> Can't pull
[01:34] <wgrant> Blah
[01:34] <StevenK> Hahaha
[01:34]  * wgrant does it manually
[01:35] <StevenK> wgrant: Is this going to involve a second call to Optarse?
[01:35] <wgrant> Already done
[01:37] <wgrant> Two sets of DB perms
[01:38] <StevenK> garbo and what else?
[01:41] <spm> wgrant: we believe that's back
[01:42] <wgrant> StevenK, webops: There's an SQL request at the usual place to manually apply this nodowntime's DB security changes
[01:43] <wgrant> Which will take us up to 5 live cowboys :)
[01:44] <spm> ./ignore wgrant
[01:45] <wgrant> spm: marid looks healthy again, thanks
[01:45] <StevenK> wgrant: Do you even have an ETA from them?
[01:46] <wgrant> No
[01:46] <StevenK> Because routing to Europe is hard or something.
[01:46] <wgrant> Maybe I can convince a GSA to check what the melons think of the BGP state
[01:46] <wgrant> L3's looking glass looks fine
[01:47] <wgrant> Maybe Datahop is breaking things
[01:52] <bigjools> urls for multi-task bugs are weird
[01:53] <bigjools> I entered a bug on maas, url has maas in it.  Add a task for cloud-init and the url changes to one for cloud-init
[01:55] <wgrant> bigjools: Right, when you add a new task it sends you to the bug in that context
[03:01] <StevenK> wgrant: No test failure for me. :-(
[03:02] <lifeless> StevenK: auditor today?
[03:09] <StevenK> Haha
[03:10] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1169187/ == no failure after make schema
[03:13] <wgrant> StevenK: The problem is creating the link from a --fixes
[03:18] <StevenK> wgrant: I thought that just linked the bug?
[03:18] <wgrant> StevenK: Yes
[03:19] <wgrant> But it's the bug linking that crashes
[03:19] <wgrant> Not scanning a branch with a linked bug
[03:19] <wgrant> You can probably reproduce by switching to the DB user before calling linkBug
[03:25] <StevenK> wgrant: Calling db_branch.linkBug() in the with dbuser block == no crash
[03:28] <wgrant> StevenK: Hm, possibly it's not calling the notify methods?
[03:28] <wgrant> I forget where in the traceback it died
[03:28] <wgrant> But I linked the OOPS in the bug
[03:30] <StevenK> wgrant: Ah, yes, that would likely be it.
[03:31] <StevenK> Actually, I think it's because the project that the bug is created has no structural subscribers.
[03:31] <StevenK> And maybe no notification
[03:37] <wgrant> That could do it too
[04:41] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, I'm hooking it into the bug linking bit, I needed a revprop with the right format.
[04:41] <StevenK> But still no failure, which is annoying.
[05:35] <StevenK> Oh, hah. My contains-to-match trips over test_getAllPermissions_constant_query_count
[05:46] <wgrant> Heh
[05:47] <StevenK> wgrant: Still no failure. :-(
[05:47] <spm> wgrant: psql:tmp/wg.sql:8: ERROR:  cannot execute GRANT in a read-only transaction
[05:47] <wgrant> spm: tThat's no druk
[05:47] <spm> oh wait. nm. my bad. wrong server.
[05:47] <spm> yah
[05:47] <spm> I blame mondays.
[05:48] <wgrant> I blame Optus/Datahop/NTT :)
[05:48] <spm> ad that tomorrow is tuesday. and yesterday being sunday.
[05:48] <wgrant> For everything
[05:48] <spm> wgrant: applied
[05:48] <wgrant> spm: Thank
[05:49] <wgrant> s
[05:50] <wgrant> Hopefully you can now ndt without the world burning down
[05:50] <wgrant> more than it already is
[05:51] <StevenK> spm: http://images.ucomics.com/comics/ga/1991/ga910304.gif
[06:13] <wgrant> woah
[06:13] <wgrant> ppa queue almost caught up
[06:19] <StevenK> Wah, still no failure.
[06:22] <StevenK> Ah, the job running code isn't sending a notification.
[06:26] <StevenK> wgrant: I think this test is being defeated by caching
[06:30] <wgrant> StevenK: :(
[06:30] <wgrant> StevenK: Then clear the cache :)
[06:31] <StevenK> Which doesn't help either
[06:31] <StevenK> Sigh
[06:36] <StevenK> wgrant: Store.of(obj).invalidate() only invalidates only that object? What if I want to invalidate everything?
[06:43] <wgrant> StevenK: That invalidates the whole store
[06:49] <StevenK> Then I'm not sure why notify isn't calling back into getBugNotificationRecipients :-(
[06:56] <StevenK> wgrant: The notify(ObjectCreatedEvent(bug_branch))
[06:56] <StevenK> line in linkBranch() is directly implicated in the OOPS, but my test causes it to notify noone
[06:56] <wgrant> You've verified that there are adequate subs to the bug?
[06:57] <StevenK> I've added a direct subscriber with an APG
[06:57] <StevenK> I'm trying to work out why that notify call is deciding to do nothing
[06:58] <StevenK> And failing, I might add
[07:10] <StevenK> wgrant: The bugchange ignores private branches. The notification code has to run before the branch is made private.
[07:16] <wgrant> StevenK: Why is the branch private?
[07:16] <StevenK> Because I was forcing it to be.
[07:17] <wgrant> Ah
[07:17] <wgrant> (and yes, it does ignore private branches -- I reported that leak a few years ago :))
[07:18] <StevenK> wgrant: BTF isn't in branchscanner's security.cfg, too
[07:29] <wgrant> StevenK: It probably inherits that
[07:29] <wgrant> eg. from write or something
[07:31] <wgrant> Yeah, from write
[07:31] <StevenK> Ah. I think APG is fine, and we have a test that will blow up if that check changes.
[07:43] <StevenK> Oh, sigh.
[07:43] <StevenK> I bet the scanner has cursed this branch
[07:54]  * StevenK stabs the branch scanner over and over.
[07:58] <wgrant> I have mail
[07:58] <wgrant> So I take it you uncursed it
[07:59] <StevenK> No, rename and push again dance.
[07:59] <wgrant> You do love to crush my hopes and dreams.
[07:59] <StevenK> And putting a bloody knife in a Express Post and addressing it to celeryd@ackee
[08:00] <StevenK> wgrant: Well, I do need a hobby ...
[08:00] <wgrant> StevenK: Care to check that the bug actually gets linked?
[08:01] <StevenK> That's probably a good idea.
[08:11] <adeuring> good morning
[08:13] <StevenK> wgrant: Done. Look again?
[08:19] <wgrant> StevenK: r=me
[08:19] <wgrant> thanks
[08:43] <stub> wgrant: Do you think http://paste.ubuntu.com/1169485/ will work?
[08:45] <stub> wgrant: I'm thinking this behaviour makes the improved FDT process much simpler. I just need to stop the slaves replaying WAL, disable master connections, apply patches to the master, enable master connections, disable slave connections, reenable replication, wait for sync, back to normal.
[08:46] <stub> Which I think I can do without swapping pgbouncer config files around, which seems fragile.
[08:50] <wgrant> stub: That was exactly the process I had in mind, but let me read the code...
[08:52] <wgrant> stub: I think that would work
[08:52] <wgrant> But we'd want to go a bit further eventually :)
[08:53] <wgrant> A bit of refactoring to allow generic support for fallbacks would probably make it all a bit nicer
[08:53] <stub> In what way? We can also cause master requests to get a slave, which is reinventing lp's read-only mode.
[08:54] <wgrant> stub: Well, webapp and API requests always use the master
[08:54] <wgrant> Erm
[08:54] <wgrant> Webapp requests in recently-POSTed sessions
[08:54] <wgrant> Because they want up to date data
[08:54] <stub> But then we have a little risk with scripts, as we are deliberately returning a broken result.
[08:54] <wgrant> But if the master's not available then they should fall back
[08:55] <wgrant> xmlrpc-private also usually uses the master policy
[08:55] <wgrant> Because it wants to be as up to date as possible
[08:55] <stub> Yeah, so we can do that for all master requests, which would be a lie. Or make a master + fallback policy for them, and switch them to using that policy.
[08:55] <wgrant> Right, I think we want a MasterIfYouCan policy which all those use
[08:56] <wgrant> So the slave policy should always allow fallback to master
[08:56] <wgrant> the masterifyoucan policy can always fall back to a slave
[08:56] <wgrant> and the master policy just fails
[08:56] <stub> Yes, slave falling back to master is documented as allowed.
[08:57] <wgrant> Oh right, I think it even already does that
[08:57] <wgrant> It must
[08:59] <stub> I don't think we do that dynamically anywhere
[08:59] <wgrant> So I think default_flavor = MAIN_FLAVOR becomes eg. flavours = [MAIN_FLAVOUR, SLAVE_FLAVOUR]
[08:59] <wgrant> stub: I thought the slave policy respected lag
[08:59] <wgrant> But I can't remember exactly.
[09:00] <stub> oh yes
[09:00] <stub> Only in the LaunchpadPolicy
[09:00] <wgrant> Indeed
[09:00] <wgrant> SlaveDatabasePolicy doesn't respect lag
[09:00] <wgrant> That's probably a bad idea
[09:01] <stub> We only choose the default based on lag.
[09:01] <wgrant> Right, and only in LaunchpadDatabasePolicy
[09:01] <stub> master requests still get a master if explicit, and slave requests still get a slave if explicit, no matter lag.
[09:01] <wgrant> Oh hm
[09:01] <wgrant> True
[09:01] <wgrant> That sucks
[09:01] <wgrant> So
[09:02] <wgrant> I think most of dbpolicy.py wants a bit of a rethink
[09:02] <wgrant> and
[09:02] <wgrant> most importantly
[09:02] <wgrant> a de-Americanisation
[09:02] <wgrant> :)
[09:02] <wgrant> Because there's not much reason to ever not respect lag
[09:02] <wgrant> Lag should probably be treated as failure
[09:03] <wgrant> Although not failed enough that it won't use it as a last resort
[09:03] <stub> I think there is plenty of stuff that is happy using a slave even if it is an hour behind, and we raise alerts when things are 5 minutes behind
[09:05] <wgrant> True
[09:06] <wgrant> So yeah
[09:06] <wgrant> xmlrpc
[09:06] <wgrant> xmlrpc-private
[09:06] <wgrant> recently-POSTed webapp
[09:06] <wgrant> and API
[09:06] <wgrant> probably all want to fall back to slaves
[09:06] <wgrant> Webapp writes shouldn't
[09:06] <wgrant> So we need a new policy
[09:06] <stub> Try slave first, fallback to master ;)
[09:07] <wgrant> Right, that's correct for webapp
[09:07] <wgrant> But xmlrpc probably wants the opposite
[09:07] <wgrant> Or at least a very low lag limit
[09:07] <stub> I'm joking there.
[09:07] <stub> I'd like to try to use the LaunchpadDatabasePolicy logic if there is a session cookie
[09:08] <wgrant> Right, that logic is still good
[09:08] <wgrant> Except that that should only influence the default
[09:08] <stub> And I'm still annoyed nobody would put in a session token to the webapi, killing its scalability. But I suspect a lot of clients give us a cookie anyway.
[09:09] <stub> I think the way forward is to try this with just slave fallback, which is the original ppa use case. Get the bugs ironed out on the production side before complicating things further.
[09:10] <wgrant> I'm just worried that we're complicating things unnecessarily by adding a hacky single-case fallback
[09:11] <stub> We only have 2 types of connections, 3 if you count 'DEFAULT'. We don't really need a generic framework.
[09:11] <stub> Or do you mean this shouldn't be in the BaseDatabasePolicy?
[09:12] <wgrant> Right, I don't think this belongs in BaseDatabasePolicy
[09:12] <wgrant> I'm not quite sure where is better
[09:12] <stub> I can put it in SlaveDatabasePolicy and SlaveOnlyDatabasePolicy
[09:12] <wgrant> (also, am I missing something or do you try to reretrieve the same store there? you don't change the flavour)
[09:13] <wgrant> Which means it'll just try to regrab the slave
[09:13] <stub> typo
[09:13] <stub> Not tried actually using this yet, just thinking through the idea :)
[09:14] <wgrant> Heh
[09:14]  * wgrant foods
[09:46] <czajkowski> wgrant: stub you guys doing anything to LP right now? getting timeouts doing the licience review
[09:46] <czajkowski> (Error ID: OOPS-e3753aed5cfe86fe227192e43be904c1)
[09:46] <stub> nope
[09:46] <czajkowski> hmm
[09:56] <stub> Bah. Need to rethink this, again. DBPolicy will happily hand out stores from the ZStorm cache even if they won't work, and I don't want to test if connections work every time the policy is invoked.
[10:06] <wgrant> stub: Hm
[10:06] <wgrant> stub: Well
[10:06] <wgrant> stub: It should be done the same way as the lag check, right?
[10:06] <wgrant> I forget at what stage that is done, but whatever it is it's right at the start of the request
[10:07] <wgrant> And for non-request-based stuff we probably just want to switch when a connection fails, maybe?
[10:07] <wgrant> Although that makes it harder to fail back
[10:07] <stub> We might not have a request
[10:07] <stub> I think I can ask the store if it is in a disconnected state or not before handing it out. If it is disconnected, attempt reconnection
[10:07] <wgrant> Yeah
[10:08] <stub> So a script running during fdt will get disconnected and need to handle that. And when it handles it, it will get the master store if it asks for the slave.
[10:08] <stub> Just need to wade through to see how to detect disconnected state, and to force a reconnection attempt.
[10:11] <wgrant> stub: Yeah, we may just have to wait for a disconnectionerror to be raised, I suspect
[10:11] <wgrant> And teach stuff to deal
[13:20] <deryck> abentley, adeuring, rick_h_ -- let's be ready for a longer stand-up today, to let rick_h_ lead us through the mockups he has.
[13:21] <abentley> deryck: okay.
[13:21] <rick_h_> party
[13:21] <rick_h_> drink refill before the meeting, got it
[13:22] <abentley> rick_h_: hey, don't party too hard :-)
[13:49] <jam> jelmer: I added a card to track the translations stuff, but I don't have any specific insight into it.
[13:49] <jam> My first guess is that there is an issue with a cron job that is supposed to be running.
[13:49] <jam> jtv is someone you can poke for translations background, but he doesn't necessarily know more intimate details if it is an operational issue
[13:49] <jam> wgrant is generally the person with the most ops ideas
[15:25] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ping, hazmat ping'd me about looking over their YUI work on the juju js app/ui and deryck mentioned that since you guys were coming into that work should someone from your squad take part in the discussion
[15:25] <rick_h_> bah
[15:28] <gary_poster> rick_h_, hey thank you.  why the bah?  It would be great to be a part of it, I think, though I'll check with hazmat
[15:30] <czajkowski> jam: jelmer jtv will be on later if that helps, in the mean time I'm going to put ana annoucement out on Twitter and places as we're getting more bugs/questions logged about it
[15:30] <czajkowski> it's added to the topic as well in case people ask, that way you're not under as much pressure to find an answer
[15:30] <deryck> abentley, ready for call?
[15:31] <deryck> stand-up hangout is fine
[15:31] <abentley> deryck: sure.
[15:59] <czajkowski> hiya someone help me for a momen, bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1041864  I wanted to change the URL for the import, but when I do i get invalid as it's being used elsewhere and I've never seen that issue before :/
[15:59] <_mup_> Bug #1041864: Badly named weston import <Launchpad itself:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041864 >
[16:18] <maxb> czajkowski: Hm.. I don't think the user wants the import URL change
[16:18] <maxb> +d
[16:19] <maxb> Can someone look up OOPS-eb261d3e309c39d6948f60de23422af9 for me?
[16:20] <rick_h_> maxb: loaded, the user isn't a member of the team
[16:21] <czajkowski> rick_h_: you're faster than I was
[16:21] <czajkowski> maxb: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1170166/
[16:23] <maxb> Oh, right, this is because ~vcs-imports members has slightly weird hybrid edit permissions on code imports, I remember now
[17:47] <jtv> czajkowski, jelmer: will be at least 8 more hours before I'm here — provided I get well enough.  What's the crisis?
[17:48] <czajkowski> jtv: translation imports seem to have stopped
[17:49] <czajkowski> jtv: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/1041858
[17:49] <_mup_> Bug #1041858: No daily translation export anymore <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1041858 >
[17:49] <jtv> Import or export?
[17:49] <czajkowski> export sorry
[17:50] <jtv> And it's not the normal exports, but the exports to branches, I see.
[17:50] <jtv> Now, there's always a few exports that are skipped because the branches are locked, or there are concurrent translation updates that the exporter doesn't want to overwrite, etc.
[17:51] <jtv> So there's a big difference between “several people haven't seen it work” and “it's stopped.”  Do we know which it is?
[17:52] <czajkowski> https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/206912  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/206948
[17:52] <czajkowski> jtv: I asked jelmer to look into it today
[17:52] <czajkowski> not sure he made progress or what update he got with it
[17:53] <jtv> If there's no breakthrough, chances are it's hard to diagnose — which most likely means a crash in a C-level library.  Might be worth finding out if the outage coincides with an upgrade.
[17:55] <jtv> Hmm the log on crowberry simply stops on the 17th.  We haven't disabled the whole cron job by any chance?
[17:55] <czajkowski> jtv: no clue :s
[17:56] <czajkowski> jtv: but as soon as jelmer and jam come on tormorrow will get them to loook
[17:56] <czajkowski> or ask wgrant in a bit when he arrives
[17:56] <czajkowski> august 17th was when we did a lot of the DC move
[17:56] <jtv> There's more log on taotie.
[17:57] <jtv> I'll see if anything jumps out, but will leave it to the Dutch Cavalry otherwise then.
[17:57] <czajkowski> thanks jtv
[18:10] <jtv> czajkowski: I can give you my quick & vague impression…  The exporter writes to branches, which triggers branch-scan jobs (to make Launchpad notice the branch changes).  These seem to go into Celery now, via a RabbitMQ queue.  It looks as if the connection to RabbitMQ started breaking on the 18th (possibly from a change on the 17th, since this job runs in early morning UTC) and eventually on the 21st somebody may just have killed and disabled the
[18:10] <jtv> Well, not disabled exactly.  Maybe the lock file from the aborted run is still there; I seem to remember that logging is a bit asymmetrical when it comes to those lock files.
[18:11] <jtv> It may mean that that instance from the 21st is still hanging around trying to request a branch scan for Stellarium, and the subsequent runs are quietly giving up as they notice that.
[19:05] <lifeless_> flacoste: o/ - just settling Cynthia a little, back soon
[19:07] <flacoste> lifeless_: o/
[19:13] <lifeless> flacoste: ok, ready when you are.
[19:45]  * deryck heads home, back online shortly
[22:02] <wallyworld> wgrant: StevenK: mumble?
[23:15] <lifeless> http crackheads of the world, does bug 1040689 strike you as add?
[23:15] <lifeless> s/add/odd/
[23:15] <_mup_> Bug #1040689: add api to refresh an existing token <escalated> <Canonical SSO provider:In Progress by ricardokirkner> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1040689 >
[23:16] <StevenK> lifeless: Hello replay attack?


[21:40] <JackFrost> FYI: I did not enable wayland support in -notifyd.
[23:51] <bluesabre> Makes sense :)