[12:03]  * apw notes that linux-lts-wily has dropped into universe, this is inconsistent with the other linux0lts-* kernels
[12:54] <cjwatson> y
[12:54] <cjwatson> sorry
[17:08] <bdmurray> If a release isn't on archive.ubuntu.com any more where does it go? old-releases or something?
[17:09] <ogra_> yeah
[17:09] <bdmurray> Ah, I was missing the hyphen.
[18:38] <chrisccoulson> could someone please approve that ^
[18:44] <infinity> chrisccoulson: I might have the technology.
[18:45] <infinity> chrisccoulson: I assume (other than perhaps the blob differing) it's basically the same as wily's?
[18:45]  * infinity looks.
[18:47]  * infinity looks veeeeery slowly, as it downloads at 15kB/s ..
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> infinity, yeah it's a copy of wily's, with the updated versions
[18:48] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Check.  I'll confirm that assertion when the download finishes and let it in.
[18:48] <teward> infinity: too bad I can't give you my blazing speeds :/  (I know the 'slow download speeds' problem)
[18:48] <teward> (wish i could, i'm not using it)
[18:48] <infinity> teward: It's not me, it's something between me and London.
[18:48] <teward> ooo
[18:48] <infinity> teward: I get 200Mbps from other sources. :P
[18:49] <teward> heh
[18:49] <infinity> Just having a bad day across the ocean.
[18:50] <teward> infinity: mm.  i wonder if one of the cross-ocean ISPs/links is down again :p
[18:51] <infinity> It's just as6908 being crap as usual.
[18:51] <infinity> Seems to be recovering now.
[18:51] <teward> heh
[18:53] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Looketh good to me, acceptified.
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> infinity, thanks. Would you be able to accept precise -> wily as well? (I'm just going to upload those now)
[18:54] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Yep.  Upload away.
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> infinity, ok, those are uploaded now
[19:16] <infinity> chrisccoulson: One thing to note.  Your versioning scheme is going to break VERY SOON.
[19:17] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Less of an issue for precise->wily, but you should start with using numbers in xenial, since we'll wrap around the alphabet between xenial and the next LTS.
[19:18] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Oh, I guess you probably want to switch to numbers for all of them to preserve sorting anyway.  But yeah, make a note of that for the next upstream bump, perhaps.
[19:20] <cjwatson> this is why we tried to do it for everything else while <release name> < "ubuntu" ...
[19:20] <infinity> Yeah.  We seem to have missed flash. :P
[19:27] <mdeslaur> what's wrong with 1:20151110.1-0zygotic.is.really.accomplished1? ;)
[19:28] <chrisccoulson> heh
[19:33] <infinity> chrisccoulson: So, yeah, promise me the next upstream version bump will use versioning more like firefox's. ;)
[19:34] <chrisccoulson> infinity, sure :)


[11:09] <wwalczak> hey! I need some java networking help, is anyone available for a few mins?
[11:11] <wwalczak> I'm having problems connecting, I want to connect to a http server, send a request and receive a single line response. It seems pretty simple, but I just don't know what I'm doing wrong! PLEASE HELP :)
[11:18] <man-di> wwalczak: I guess you want to join ##java, this is no channel to teach Java
[11:59] <wwalczak> man-di: thanks, I will give it a try there... I just need a nudge in the right direction :)
[14:21] <fruitbatjim> I've just downloaded the self extracting jdk from the sun site.....what do I do with it once it's downloaded? It's not self-extracting...
[14:21] <man-di> delete it and use aptitude to install a packaged JDK
[14:23] <fruitbatjim> sudo apt-get intall java6?
[14:23] <man-di> sun-java6
[14:23] <fruitbatjim> thanks
[14:23] <man-di> sun-java6-jdk
[14:24] <fruitbatjim> and how do I make ubuntu use that instead of the gnu one?
[14:24] <fruitbatjim> sorry...I was a windows guy
[14:27] <vil> fruitbatjim, update-java-alternatives
[14:29] <fruitbatjim> ah...the installation seems to have done it for me.....thanks though
[15:03] <dinesh> Hello How do I find position of word in string? For ex. "I am java developer" and if search position of "java" then output will be 3
[15:04] <vil> try ##java
[15:05] <man-di> vil: gone already
[15:05] <man-di> no patience
[15:05] <vil> heya, man-di
[15:06] <man-di> vil: hey
[15:06] <man-di> dinesh_: ##java is the proper channel to ask such questions
[15:07] <dinesh_> man-di, ok thnkx


[12:03] <ogra> night dholbach
[12:05] <infinity> elmo : Please sync powerpc-utils from unstable.
[12:05] <infinity> elmo : I had Michael merge our changes.
[12:06] <elmo> infinity: don
[12:06] <elmo> e
[12:06] <infinity> Danke.
[12:16] <dennis__> haggai what do you mean
[12:17] <dennis__> haggai which version are you testing, openoffice2 or 1? and how are you starting it
[12:18] <haggai> dennis__: OOo2 - OOo1 doesn't have pyuno support
[12:19] <dennis__> haggai it does since 1.1
[12:19] <haggai> dennis__: it's not compatible with the python in ubuntu
[12:19] <dennis__> haggai anyways i'm trying to get 2 working anyways
[12:19] <haggai> dennis__: LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/openoffice2/program python program.py
[12:20] <dennis__> SystemError: Error during bootstrapping uno (RuntimeException):pyuno: couldn't instantiate invocation service
[12:20] <dennis__> that's a new error message
[12:20] <dennis__> let me check on that
[12:21] <haggai> dennis__: the example scripts in openoffice.org load without error
[12:22] <dennis__> haggai where are they located
[12:22] <haggai> dennis__: /usr/lib/openoffice2/share/Scripts/python
[12:26] <dennis__> haggai, that is because the scripts don't even import uno
[12:26] <haggai> dennis__: I did test it with scripts that did something; maybe something got broken in the 1.9.79 update (which I wasn't involved in)
[12:27] <dennis__> hmm
[12:27] <dennis__> do you know what python version it's compiled against?
[12:28] <haggai> system python
[12:28] <haggai> so 2.4
[12:29] <dennis__> could it be that you did it while we were still using 2.3?
[12:29] <haggai> no
[12:29] <haggai> but OOo2 was a fast moving target with packaging changing every milestone; it woudn't surprise me if something broke
[12:30] <haggai> I was having to change all sorts in the packaging when I was tracking milestones
[12:30] <dennis__> yea it's still very new
[12:30] <dennis__> let me just purge everything and then see if that does it
[12:31] <haggai> dennis__: hmm it is definately broken
[12:31] <haggai> dennis__: the test script I used to test at the time (which did import uno) doesn't work any more
[12:32] <haggai> oh, python-uno isn't installed
[12:32] <dennis__> ;-)
[12:33] <haggai> SystemError: Error during bootstrapping uno (RuntimeException):pyuno: couldn't instantiate invocation service
[12:33] <dennis__> ok
[12:33] <haggai> now I have the same as you
[12:33] <dennis__> so it's not just me
[12:34] <haggai> no, seems to have broken
[12:34] <dennis__> i think it's a matter of compiling libuno against python
[12:34] <dennis__> but i don't know how to do that
[12:35] <haggai> you mean libpyuno?
[12:35] <haggai> I did already do all that and the fact the package exists should mean it is still happening
[12:35] <haggai> my guess is that something changed in the implementation that needs a different file layout or pyunorc
[12:36] <haggai> it's a little odd that pyunorc only has the 2 lines in it
[12:36] <haggai> do you have a stock 1.9.79 install anywhere?
[12:37] <dennis__> nope
[12:37] <haggai> when I did the original packaging that pyuno had several other lines in it
[12:37] <dennis__> i'm still waiting for my install to finish
[12:37] <dennis__> so i can see
[12:38] <haggai> I have a .78 - I'll try copying the lines from there
[12:39] <dennis__> the [bootstrap]  line is missing
[12:39] <dennis__> that might be why it doesn't bootstrap
[12:40] <haggai> no
[12:40] <haggai> aah
[12:40] <haggai> but if you add all the extras it works
[12:40] <haggai> [Bootstrap]
[12:40] <haggai> PYUNO_SHARED_PACKAGES=${$ORIGIN/bootstraprc:BaseInstallation}/share/uno_packages/cache
[12:40] <dennis__> all what extras?
[12:40] <haggai> PYUNO_USER_PACKAGES=${$ORIGIN/bootstraprc:UserInstallation}/user/uno_packages/cache
[12:40] <haggai> UNO_TYPES=$ORIGIN/types.rdb ?$PYUNO_SHARED_PACKAGES/types.rdb ?$PYUNO_USER_PACKAGES/types.rdb
[12:40] <haggai> UNO_SERVICES=?$PYUNO_USER_PACKAGES/services.rdb ?$PYUNO_SHARED_PACKAGES/services.rdb $ORIGIN/services.rdb
[12:41] <haggai> the packaging scripts just add the PYTHONHOME/PATH to the bottom of the script created by the upstream install so I guess something went wrong or was changed during the upstream build
[12:42] <dennis__> yea
[12:42] <dennis__> so what shall we do, bug report?
[12:43] <haggai> yes, to make sure it doesn't get forgotten
[12:43] <haggai> we could hack the packaging script to add the missing lines as a workaround for now
[12:44] <haggai> but really it needs investigating what changed/broke upstream
[12:44] <dennis__> yea
[12:44] <dennis__> what's ubuntus bug page?
[12:45] <zul> bugzilla.ubuntulinux.org
[12:48] <dennis__> i'm pretty new to this
[12:49] <dennis__> should i leave the priority at normal or should i say it's a blocker?
[12:52] <mdz> Riddell: can you send me a debdiff?
[12:53] <haggai> well I suppose it's a blocker for python-uno
[12:53] <haggai> um, that would be major severity I think
[12:56] <lamont> although... there are some confused kubuntu users out there...
[12:56] <dennis__> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10569
[12:57] <lamont> "I don't think kubuntu will be around much longer now that ubuntu has KDE in main."
[12:57] <lamont> well, _I_ thought it was funny, anyway.
[12:57] <elmo> *choke*
[12:57] <lamont> (the kids school was going to be using SUSE or some such, is now running kubuntu)
[12:59] <lamont> elmo: I think it's an issue of messages, or some such.
[01:19] <doko> elmo, lamont: would it be possible to stop uploads to breezy for 2 or 3 days, besides those done for the CXX ABI transition?
[01:22] <elmo> doko: why do you need that?
[01:24] <doko> elmo: if we don't do that, packages may be linked against libs against libstdc++5, which may break them
[01:25] <elmo> eh, I guess
[01:25] <elmo> anywya, sure it's possible.  what did you want. no builds, or just source uploads by your key?
[01:28] <doko> what's easier for you? of course I want to have the packages I upload built as well.  And maybe some MOTU's as well.
[01:29] <elmo> uh, well we need someway to distinguish them? but I can do whatever, either is fairly easy
[01:29] <tseng> thats a bit disruptive..
[01:29] <tseng> meh.
[01:34] <doko> elmo: or we can just stop the autosync and hope that all people only upload non CXX stuff
[01:34] <elmo> doko: that's utterly trivial, sure
[01:34] <elmo> doko: basically, I can do pretty much whatever you want, so decide what you want, get mdz to sign off on it, and let me know
[01:34] <elmo> I'm going to crash, it's been far too long a day.  night all
[01:34] <ajmitch_> night elmo
[01:35] <ogra> night elmo
[01:35] <doko> night
[01:35] <mdz> doko: if you can generate a list of packages that should not be uploaded, we can add a check
[01:38] <doko> mdz, elmo: yes, I can do this. but we need to stop the autosync as well, because it may add new packages, which are not on the list
[02:10] <infinity> elmo : re: powerpc-utils, you got the wrong version.  Can I get -15, not -14? :)
[02:16] <ogra> meh
[02:31] <mdz> doko: ok
[03:22] <lamont> infinity: you aroudn?
[03:24] <som> the meeting log was very informative, if not very exciting
[03:25] <robertj> glad to see seb128 got tasked with specing a bounty for places integration
[03:28] <infinity> lamont : I think so.
[03:43] <AndyFitz> jdub: got your e-mail. will send it through when i get back later tonight
[03:44] <AndyFitz> anyone else notice FC4 now uses clearlooks ?  we're too trendy.
[04:24] <daniels> man, I'd forgotten the joy of mirroring new upstream versions of OOo
[04:31] <daniels> elmo: please sync render 0.9-1 and xrender 0.9.0-1 from debian
[04:36] <bob2> hah
[04:37] <bob2> OOo was like 10% of my mirror pulse yesterday
[04:44] <daniels> i'm *still* catching up on breezy
[04:44] <daniels> pulsed right before I left for LCA
[04:44] <jsgotangco> morning
[04:44] <daniels> pulsed when I got back on, well, Sunday ...
[04:45] <cartel_> daniels: where are you working these days? canonical?
[04:45] <daniels> cartel_: yeah
[04:45] <cartel_> shot :)
[04:48] <cartel_> good moneys?
[04:49] <daniels> it pays the bills ;)
[04:50] <cartel_> so does my job
[04:50] <cartel_> it just doesnt give me anything else
[04:50] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:51] <cartel_> so canonical hired you to look after Xorg?
[04:52] <daniels> basically; i do other things as well, but xorg is my main responsibility (i take care of linux-restricted-modules, sort of de facto maintain half of ppp*, now some printing stuff, et al)
[04:52] <cartel_> heh, i remember you doing the prerelease packages for xfree 4.2 and then having branden throw all your work out the window ;)
[04:54] <cartel_> im doing lots of stuff, building an end-to-end network for 1000 users (with ubuntu frontend), lots of work with xen virtualisation, clustering, and ldap
[04:55] <cartel_> its a bit annoying working in 6 weeks on a solution that pays your salary 20 times over
[04:55] <cartel_> and then having your boss offer you a pay rise of $7k in the next 6 months
[04:56] <cartel_> they want to take out life insurance on me
[04:56] <cartel_> yet they pay me peanuts
[04:56] <cartel_> time to take a walk methinks
[04:57] <cartel_> daniels: how much linux work experience did you have on your cv before you got hired by canonical?
[04:57] <daniels> heh, d'oh
[04:57] <daniels> looks like fun though
[04:57] <daniels> ~4 years
[04:57] <cartel_> so 4 years on the shop floor in a company?
[04:58] <daniels> i think this is getting wildly off-topic for #ubuntu-devel, but no
[04:58] <cartel_> ahh
[04:58] <cartel_> see i have 7 years but only 2 years on the shop floor
[05:09] <jsgotangco> (most of it is talent and part of it is luck i guess)
[05:11] <zul> cartel_: er at least ou are working
[05:12] <cartel_> zul: working to keep my boss in the lifestyle he is accustomed to yes...
[05:13] <zul> cartel: my point is that you have a job and you are better off than most people right now
[05:13] <zul> probably better...but anyways its ot
[05:13] <cartel_> zul: working on a bottom rung salary amid cries of "we cant afford to pay you guys more, increase your billable and we will talk" when they are driving 90 and 120k cars and extending their houses and getting married...
[05:14] <jsgotangco> zul is right
[05:14] <cartel_> when the it support personell at some of our clients earn more than i do
[05:14] <zul> cartel_: ok lets change jobs then..
[05:14] <cartel_> i have a job but no job satisfaction
[05:14] <zul> you can have mine
[05:14] <cartel_> zul: what do you do?
[05:15] <zul> im an unemployed contractor
[05:15] <cartel_> zul: freelancer?
[05:15] <zul> kind of..
[05:26] <daniels> tseng: uhm, so when's mono moving into main?
[05:28] <jsgotangco> whiprush, that blog entry is crack heh
[05:42] <wasabi> hmm. hdparm won't enable dma on my dvd drive. =/
[05:43] <fabbione> morning
[05:53] <wasabi> okay why is CONFIG_IDEDMA_ONLYDISK enabled by default?
[05:53] <wasabi> sort of makes dvd players useless!
[05:54] <jdub> because it's the only reliable setting atm
[05:54] <wasabi> shouldn't hdparm script be smarter instead?
[05:55] <jdub> better to have users manually turn it on than have a whole bunch of systems simply not work (or worse, break)
[05:55] <wasabi> I mean, this is hard to manually set. I am recompilling my kernel for the first time in months. =/
[05:55] <wasabi> and that makes me sad
[05:55] <jdub> it is not hard to manually set
[05:55] <wasabi> how? hdparm refuses to do so.
[05:55] <wasabi> "operation not permitted"
[05:55] <stuNNed> -/win 2
[05:55] <stuNNed> oops sorry
[05:55] <jdub> so what are you doing?
[05:55] <wasabi> trying to enable dma on my dvd drive.
[05:56] <wasabi> wasabi@kyoto:/usr/src/linux-source-2.6.10$ sudo hdparm -d1 /dev/hda
[05:56] <wasabi> ...
[05:56] <wasabi>  HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
[05:56] <jdub> i can certainly do it on mine, perhaps there is good reason why it refuses to do so on yours
[05:56] <wasabi> perhaps, except it used to work great. =/
[05:57] <tritium> wasabi, it your dvd really /dev/hda?
[05:57] <daniels> works on my amd64 with .11
[05:57] <wasabi> Yeah.
[05:57] <wasabi> i have all SATA devices except my dvd
[05:57] <tritium> just double-checking
[06:01] <wasabi> I'm kinda mad about this. =/
[06:01] <wasabi> Friend came over so we could watch firefly, and now he has to leave. =(
[06:02] <crimsun> does dmesg report anything about the ide controller?
[06:02] <wasabi> Not when I do hdparm
[06:03] <crimsun> from normal usage, rather
[06:04] <wasabi> not a whole lot that i can find
[06:04] <crimsun> you could try unloading then reloading ide_cd if there are errors
[06:04] <wasabi> Yeah, DriveReady SeekComplete Error
[07:16] <jsgotangco> brb
[07:38] <Burgundavia> who is working on the bluetooth stuff?
[07:42] <Echylo> I guess that wat thom
[07:42] <Echylo> was*
[07:42] <Echylo> Burgundavia ^
[07:44] <Burgundavia> ok
[08:08] <dholbach> good morning
[08:08] <jsgotangco> dholbach, hey
[08:09] <dholbach> jsgotangco: jerome, how are you?
[08:10] <jsgotangco> dholbach, im doing fine ive been busy playing around with docs and just finished the log from the breezy kick off meeting too bad i wasn't there its 3am when it happened
[08:10] <dholbach> how long did the reading take you? :-)
[08:10] <jsgotangco> yes PDASupport needs love when we did that BOF it was only me and pitti and we didnt have PDAs in the first place
[08:12] <jsgotangco> probably an hour heh
[08:13] <dholbach> wow... fast reader then :-)
[08:13] <ajmitch_> hey jerome
[08:14] <jsgotangco> ajmitch_, hey hows it going i miss the sydney weather its so humid in manila at the moment heh
[08:14] <ajmitch_> heh
[08:14] <ajmitch_> it's a bit colder than sydney here
[08:14] <jsgotangco> i can imagine
[08:49] <pitti> Good morning
[08:50] <daniels> pitti: morning dude!  bad news: we can't stop dbus being restarted.
[08:50] <dholbach> hey pitti, daniels
[08:50] <daniels> pitti: because we need to move out of the dbus-1 package, it's going to get stopped when dbus-1 gets removed, and started again when dbus gets installed.
[08:50] <daniels> dholbach: yo
[08:50] <pitti> daniels: hum, and hal?
[08:50] <pitti> daniels: it's okay to restart dbus, but not hal
[08:51] <pitti> daniels: darn, the old hal init script should have a dbus version check
[08:51] <pitti> Hi dholbach
[08:51] <pitti> dani
[08:51] <pitti> daniels: another thing is that we now need dbus 0.33
[08:52] <daniels> pitti: yes, I have 0.33 locally :)
[08:52] <daniels> i need to go back to looking after my little sister in a second, but I think the 0.33 packages are now OK
[08:52] <pitti> daniels: cool :-)
[08:52] <pitti> daniels: so any idea about the transition?
[08:53] <daniels> pitti: we upload everything to a staging area and check it, then dump it all on breezy in one big hit
[08:53] <pitti> daniels: yeah, sounds good
[08:53] <pitti> daniels: your usual place on people?
[08:53] <pitti> daniels: then I update my stuff on my people page, too, today
[08:54] <daniels> pitti: yours on ~pitti/utopia would probably make sense, but yeah, i'll put 0.33 on ~daniels today
[08:54] <pitti> daniels: I need to update to hal 0.5.1 (I have it locally, but can't compile it)
[08:55] <pitti> daniels: so if there is no way to do the transition in dbus (don't call the /etc/dbus/event.d/* scripts on upgrade), then we have to do that somehow in hal?
[08:56] <pitti> daniels: but since other dbus services will break, too, isn't there a way to disable event.d/* calling on upgrade?
[08:56] <pitti> daniels: okay, just put the packages up, then I think about it again
[08:57] <pitti> lamont: still here by any chance?
[08:57] <tim1> good morning
[08:57] <tim1> is there any specific reason that beagle is listed as successful in the buildlogs but is not in the repos?
[09:02] <daniels> pitti: i dunno how we do it perfectly
[09:02] <daniels> pitti: maybe invoke-rc.d dbus-1 restart, when we upgrade to 0.5.1 :P
[09:02] <pitti> daniels: that's done anyway
[09:02] <daniels> oh, cool
[09:02] <pitti> daniels: that's what I mean, we must just not start the event.d/* scripts in the preinst
[09:03] <pitti> daniels: s/pre/post/
[09:03] <pitti> daniels: i. e. at the point when the new dbus is already installed, but the new hal isn't yet
[09:03] <daniels> hmmm
[09:06] <pitti> daniels: a really, REALLY crude hack:
[09:06] <pitti> postinst:
[09:06] <pitti> if dpkg --compare-versions blabla; then
[09:06] <pitti>   #DEBHELPER
[09:06] <pitti> fi
[09:06] <daniels> but we're not upgrading
[09:06] <daniels> we're uninstalling dbus-1, and installing a new package called dbus
[09:06] <pitti> uh
[09:07] <pitti> daniels: will the configuration files remain in /etc/dbus-1/?
[09:07] <daniels> yeah
[09:07] <pitti> *phew*
[09:07] <daniels> and the init script will remain /etc/init.d/dbus-1
[09:07] <daniels> so we're safe there
[09:08] <pitti> daniels: I'll think about it when I have all the packages
[09:23] <dholbach> hey mvo
[09:24] <doko> morning all
[09:24] <dholbach> hey doko
[09:24] <jsgotangco> hi doko
[09:24] <haggai> morning
[09:25] <mvo> hey dholbach, morning doko, morning all :)
[09:25] <chmj> morning
[09:25] <ajmitch_> hi mvo :)
[09:26] <jsgotangco> mvo, hey
[09:29] <pitti> Hi doko
[09:29] <dholbach> hey haggai :-)
[09:31] <haggai> dholbach: hi :)
[09:35] <dholbach> hey seb128!
[09:35] <seb128> daniel!!! ;)
[09:38] <pitti> Hi seb128
[09:38] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:38] <mvo> hey seb128
[09:39] <seb128> hi mvo
[09:48] <Lathiat> hmm still no 2.6.12 or beagle in the archives, bleh.
[09:48] <Lathiat> deprived!
[09:48] <fabbione> Lathiat: the kernel had a small issue building on i386
[09:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[09:49] <Treenaks> Lathiat: spoiled, more likely
[09:49] <Lathiat> fabbione: ah, bugger
[09:49] <fabbione> that is reproducible only in a very specific case
[09:49] <Lathiat> fabbione: hahaha dont you love those
[09:49] <fabbione> and that i didn't catch because my setup is SANE :)
[09:49] <Lathiat> heh, whats the problem?
[09:49] <Treenaks> fabbione: the buildd setup isn't? ;)
[09:49] <fabbione> Lathiat: building the documentation requires openjade to download a .dtd from the network
[09:50] <fabbione> Treenaks: they are more restricted
[09:50] <fabbione> missing that files, the kernel fails to build the documentation
[09:50] <Treenaks> fabbione: sounds reasonable
[09:50] <fabbione> in any case i have <IP_ADDRESS> almost ready
[09:50] <Lathiat> fabbione: oh, right
[09:50] <fabbione> so i might as well get that one out
[09:51] <fabbione> instead of spending time fixing an obsolete 91
[09:51] <fabbione> :)
[09:51] <jdub> fabbione: everyone was thoroughly turned on by the changelog, i'm sure they're itching for it ;)
[09:51] <fabbione> jdub: i am building 92 right now :)
[09:51] <fabbione> i just got the ppc fix for the FTBFS
[09:52] <fabbione> + we have squashfs in .92 :)
[09:52] <fabbione> so let see how much we can break ;)
[09:56] <jdub> fabbione: rad ;)
[09:56] <Lathiat> squashfs?
[09:56] <fabbione> Lathiat: livecd stuff
[09:57] <jbailey> fabbione: I did notice that I had recently done some upgrades that was causing a long pause after hotplug, and a long pause while loading gnome that went away with the 2.6.11 kernel.
[09:57] <jbailey> fabbione: I haven't cared enough to look why.
[09:57] <Lathiat> fabbione: ah cool
[09:57] <fabbione> jbailey: probably they are related to inotify and gamin
[09:57] <fabbione> jbailey: you should test with the new kernel and new gamin from breezy
[09:57] <fabbione> skip 2.6.11
[09:57] <fabbione> it's crap
[09:59] <jbailey> fabbione: I update as quick as I can on my boxes to make sure that there aren't crazy glibc or initrd breakages creeping in.
[09:59] <|QuaD-_> what exactly is gamin?
[09:59] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: file change monitor daemon
[09:59] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: what does it do though?
[10:00] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: monitors changes to files and directories
[10:00] <jbailey> |QuaD-_: "apt-cache show gamin" is your friend =)
[10:00] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: and notifies programs
[10:00] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: (who request it)
[10:00] <jbailey> Hmm, actualy.
[10:00] <jbailey> That description kinda sucks.
[10:00] <Lathiat> jbailey: fixed my headers issues yet? :)
[10:00] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: so thats how things like dashboard/beagle update when you save things?
[10:01] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: yeh
[10:01] <Lathiat> altho beagle uses inotify directly
[10:01] <jbailey> Lathiat: Nope, today was the meeting, klibc, some biarch bits and getting my email working again.
[10:01] <Lathiat> rather than gamin
[10:01] <|QuaD-_> jbailey: "Gamin is a file and directory monitoring system defined to be a
[10:01] <|QuaD-_>  subset of the FAM (File Alteration Monitor) system."
[10:01] <Lathiat> jbailey: ;) its ok im just hassling. :)
[10:01] <jbailey> Lathiat: Tomorrow will be support related things, my next hack day will be Wednesday.
[10:01] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: thought thats what inotify was for. is inotify going to take the place of gamin?
[10:02] <fabbione> jbailey: what happened to cdbs sync?
[10:02] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: no, gamin uses inotify as a backend
[10:02] <fabbione> we still have a few pkgs dep-waiting for it
[10:02] <jbailey> fabbione: No idea.  I should poke elmo about those again.  There's 4 or 5 waiting on him.
[10:02] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: using gamin means you can do file  notifications portably, when various systems are or are not supprotign whatever method
[10:02] <Lathiat> its also probably ore convenient API to use
[10:02] <Lathiat> and also breaks. :)
[10:02] <fabbione> jbailey: was it a straight sync from debian?
[10:02] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes.
[10:02] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: ok, so gamin is just a frontend for inotify?
[10:03] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: no
[10:03] <jbailey> fabbione: Are you able to do those
[10:03] <jbailey> ?
[10:03] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: ok that makes more sense
[10:03] <fabbione> elmo: can you please sync cdbs from debian. ok to override
[10:03] <fabbione> jbailey: no, but i can ping elmo again when he wakes up :)
[10:03] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: its a frotend to dnotify, inotify, manual stat()ing, etc -- altho yes essentially, it is
[10:03] <jbailey> fabbione: Ah lovely.  It's possible a victim of timezone skew.
[10:03] <ajmitch_> jbailey!
[10:03] <fabbione> jbailey: probably
[10:03] <jbailey> ajmitch_: Heya Andrew
[10:04] <ajmitch_> hi
[10:04] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: i thought dnotify was being replaced?
[10:04] <astharot> ciao
[10:04] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: yes, with inotify
[10:05] <Lathiat> |QuaD-_: but if inotify isnt available, it will use dnotify()
[10:05] <Lathiat> err
[10:05] <Lathiat> no ()
[10:05] <|QuaD-_> Lathiat: the pieces are all coming together now :)
[10:08] <jdub> yo jbailey
[10:08] <dholbach> jdub: hey jeff, what do you think about ubuntu-motu@ now?
[10:08] <dholbach> :-)
[10:08] <jbailey> jdub: Just poking you over the terse long description of gamin. =)
[10:11] <ajmitch_> jdub: many MOTUs will be eternally in your debt
[10:12] <Lathiat> we have an ubuntu-motu now?
[10:12] <Lathiat> woo
[10:13] <dholbach> Lathiat: not yet, this is what the conversation is about :-)
[10:14] <Lathiat> oh
[10:33] <thom> g'morning
[10:34] <Burgundavia> thom, read p.g.o this morning?
[10:34] <dholbach> hey thom
[10:34] <jsgotangco> thom, hey
[10:34] <fabbione> hey thom
[10:34] <mvo> mdz: ping?
[10:35] <dholbach> brb
[10:36] <thom> Burgundavia: j5's post, or something else?
[10:36] <Burgundavia> thom, that one
[10:37] <\sh> morning
[10:37] <thom> Burgundavia: too long term for us, but it may be interesting
[10:38] <thom> morning \sh
[10:38] <Burgundavia> thom, just figured you might want to know
[10:39] <thom> thankee
[10:39] <Burgundavia> thom, np
[10:57] <thom> fabbione: the network card that was having grief was a marvel (ie, sk98lin); it was losing and regaining link every 10 minutes or so
[10:58] <fabbione> thom: amen
[10:58] <fabbione> that driver is problematic
[10:58] <fabbione> the update from marvel will never make upstream
[10:58] <thom> oh joy
[10:59] <fabbione> and the update is like a 1.5MB patch
[10:59] <fabbione> that will never make it trough my (in)sanity check
[10:59] <thom> well, i think not having working networking is a bit of a problem ;-)
[10:59] <fabbione> i know....
[11:00] <fabbione> buy better hardware :)
[11:00] <fabbione> but there is a bug filed
[11:00] <thom> heh
[11:00] <fabbione> mainly we need to check the driver licence
[11:00] <fabbione> if you want to give it a shot
[11:00] <fabbione> i can probably add it for <IP_ADDRESS>-1.2
[11:00] <fabbione> 1.1 is going out in a very short time
[11:01] <thom> sure; can you url me?
[11:02] <fabbione> 6142 is the bug
[11:02] <fabbione> the url to the driver is at comment #23
[11:06] <thom> right; I'll have a look (note that this problem is a regression from 2.6.10 for me - ie it's not the same bug as 6142; the hoary kernel works perfectly)
[11:07] <dholbach> fabbione: did you make lots of changes to the new kernel image since the one on people.u.c/~fabbione?
[11:07] <fabbione> yes
[11:07] <dholbach> good, because it seems to work better on amd64 for me
[11:07] <dholbach> no funny crashes every 30m :-)
[11:09] <Lathiat> hehe
[11:10] <jsgotangco> i gotta upload my photos
[11:16] <fabbione> elmo: can you please update gcc-3.4 on davis breezy chroot?
[11:19] <doko> elmo: please could you sync autogen from unstable? the current version breaks the gcc-4.0 build
[11:20] <elmo> fabbione: done
[11:20] <elmo> doko: already done
[11:20] <fabbione> elmo: thanks
[11:20] <fabbione> elmo: aslo the cdbs sync please.. ok to override
[11:20] <elmo> fabbione: also already done
[11:20] <fabbione> elmo: you rock!
[11:22] <Burgundavia> seb128_, ping
[11:22] <seb128_> ?
[11:22] <Burgundavia> https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/malone/bugs/579
[11:22] <Burgundavia> it seems malone won't let me comment on the bug
[11:23] <dholbach> Burgundavia: you're logged in and have a preferred email set?
[11:23] <Burgundavia> dholbach, yes
[11:23] <dholbach> hrmm
[11:23] <seb128_> you comment and get a message?
[11:23] <Burgundavia> yep
[11:23] <seb128_> you need to enter the comment again from this window
[11:23] <seb128_> that's a known bug
[11:24] <seb128_> should be fixed today
[11:24] <Burgundavia> ah
[11:24] <Keybuk> Debian Installer<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:24] <Keybuk> From: Debian Installer<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:24] <Keybuk> Subject: 	mozilla-thunderbird-locale-fr_1.0.dfsg-2ubuntu1_source.changes REJECTED
[11:24] <Keybuk> Rejected: Unknown distribution `breezy'.
[11:24] <Keybuk> oops :p
[11:24] <Keybuk> who did that? :p
[11:25] <elmo> hahaha
[11:25] <dholbach> :-D
[11:25] <elmo> TOUR GUIDE, COME ON DOWN
[11:25] <Burgundavia> seb128_, thanks, done
[11:30] <Nafallo> hi all
[11:30] <pitti> Hi Nafallo
[11:31] <seb128> anybody here gets A/V sync issues with the current gstreamer packages?
[11:32] <pitti> seb128: playing video with gstreamer does not really work on my box at all :-(
[11:32] <seb128> that has been mentionned during the VideoRoadmap BOF, but according to upstream that should work fine now and they would be happy to get bugs if people still get suchs issues
[11:32] <jbailey> seb128: How recent a gstreamer are you thinking?
[11:32] <jbailey> seb128: The stuff in Hoary had sync issues for me.
[11:33] <seb128> jbailey: there is no changes since hoary
[11:33] <seb128> DVD is a special case
[11:33] <thom> Keybuk: yes yes. i've already mailed aurelin and apologised
[11:33] <seb128> do you have sync issues on what kind of files?
[11:34] <jbailey> seb128: Ah, dvd was the only thing I was looking at.
[11:34] <seb128> k, so that's known
[11:34] <Keybuk> thom: cool :)  just checking
[11:34] <Keybuk> didn't know whether you got a copy of it or not
[11:34] <seb128> bbr
[11:34] <thom> no, i realised as soon as i'd done it :-)
[11:36] <thom> fabbione: new inotify out, with abi/api borkage :-)
[11:36] <fabbione> thom: meh..
[11:37] <daniels> thom: to complement dbus
[11:37] <fabbione> thom: are you sure you don't want to join the kernel team.. you are so incredibly fast
[11:38] <Lathiat> api and abi breakage seems to be the flavour of the month
[11:38] <fabbione> elmo: are you upgrading the whole breezy chroot on davis?
[11:39] <fabbione>  fakeroot: command not found
[11:39] <thom> fabbione: hahah; i'm reading that mail from mdz currently
[11:39] <fabbione> there.. fakeroot is bak
[11:39] <lifeless> hmm, lots of seeking on a new ppc install
[11:39] <fabbione> back
[11:39] <lifeless> (cdrom seeking)
[11:39] <lifeless> Kamion: ping
[11:39] <elmo> fabbione: err, yes, sorry
[11:40] <fabbione> elmo: no problem dude :)
[11:40] <Kamion> lifeless: pong
[11:40] <lifeless> how do you switch vty's on the hoary ppc install cd ?
[11:41] <Kamion> lifeless: I've done just about everything I can about seeking without totally upending the install; I won't be wasting any more time on it
[11:41] <Kamion> lifeless: one of: cmd-f2; cmd-fn-f2; alt-f2; alt-fn-f2
[11:41] <Kamion> pressed in that order
[11:41] <Kamion> depends on the keymap unfortunately
[11:42] <lifeless> omg
[11:42] <lifeless> alt-fn-f2 in that order
[11:42] <lifeless> could we get doco on that in the intro text ?
[11:42] <Kamion> no because it *depends on the keymap*
[11:43] <Kamion> which sucks, yes
[11:43] <lifeless> Kamion: as in 'list them all'
[11:43] <lifeless> exactly what you told me is all I needed
[11:43] <Kamion> I'd rather see vaguely consistent keymaps first
[11:45] <Kamion> probably fits better in the installation manual
[11:48] <bob2> it'd be saner to disable fn-first if at all possible
[11:49] <Kamion> any idea how to do that in the installer? (no pbbuttonsd or whatever)
[11:49] <Kamion>                         ADBBuffer[3]  &= 0xfe;
[11:49] <Kamion>                         ADBBuffer[3]  |= (config & KEYBOARD_FNTOP) ? 0x01 : 0x00;
[11:49] <Kamion>                         adb_write_reg (fd, ADBBuffer, n, dev, 1);
[11:50] <Kamion> hmm
[11:50] <Kamion> nice shell-friendly interface :-P
[11:50] <bob2> hehe
[11:52] <Kamion> well, feel free to file a bug against, er, probably kbd-chooser for that; I do agree it would be nice to set fkeysfirst
[11:56] <willis> beagle has been in breezy's source package list for 12 hours now, i was just wondering when it would end up in breezy's binary package list and could be downloaded and installed?
[12:04] <elmo> chmj: please close the linc bug, it's been removed from debian and ubuntu
[12:04] <lifeless> mmm
[12:04] <lifeless> new install, my mouse doesn't work :p
[12:04] <chmj> elmo: that saves me a huge panic
[12:05] <elmo> lifeless: is it a new new powerbook?
[12:05] <lifeless> yes
[12:05] <lifeless> spanking
[12:05] <tseng> daniels: hopefully sometime this week.. getting everything sorted on amd64
[12:06] <elmo> lifeless: yeah, they changed the trackpad pretty fundamentally, it's not going to work with hoary's kernel :(
[12:07] <lifeless> groan. breezy works ?
[12:07] <elmo> I've seen people working on it, 2.6.12 or so might support it, I'm not sure
[12:07] <daniels> tseng: cool.  i sort of merged mono support into 0.33.
[12:07] <tseng> daniels: rock
[12:07] <daniels> lifeless: still not really working at this stage; it's sort of i-can't-believe-it's-not-usb-hid.  thanks apple.
[12:07] <lifeless> elmo: oh well. spare 10 GB parition.
[12:07] <lifeless> daniels: neato.
[12:07] <daniels> tseng: not so much 'rock', because it means I can't upload new dbus until it's done.  get cracking. :P
[12:07] <lifeless> so time to see if parted f*cked the hfs+ partition
[12:11] <willis> just wondering, i noticed that both, linux-image-2.6.12 and beagle built succesfuly in the logs, but they haven't ended up in the any repositories except for breezy source
[12:13] <lifeless> ok, hfs+ still happy. yay
[12:15] <pitti> willis: linux failed on i386
[12:15] <fabbione> there is a new version building right now
[12:16] <fabbione> be patience
[12:16] <thom> fabbione: i'm tempted to add the skge driver and try that
[12:16] <willis> pitti, ah yes thanks
[12:16] <fabbione> thom: if you can test it, that would for sure help
[12:16] <daniels> pitti: p.u.c/~daniels/dbus/
[12:17] <pitti> daniels: rock, thanks
[12:21] <daniels> pitti: any time
[12:23] <abelli> ciao
[12:23] <abelli> fabbione: u here?
[12:23] <fabbione> abelli: yes
[12:27] <lifeless> Kamion: whats your ubuntu email address ?
[12:27] <Amaranth><EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[12:27] <lifeless> well kamion and colin both bounced.
[12:28] <lifeless> so I'm checking this time to be sure
[12:28] <Amaranth> well, if that one bounces you'll know it isn't right :)
[12:28] <elmo> cjwatson@ is his short alias
[12:28] <fabbione> lifeless: cjwatson@
[12:29] <lifeless> Amaranth: thanks.
[12:32] <Kamion> yes, cjwatson or colin.watson, neither colin nor kamion will work
[12:33] <Amaranth> is the amd64 buildd still messed up?
[12:33] <Kamion> lifeless: not quite sure what the e-mail is about though :)
[12:33] <elmo> Amaranth: please stop doing that
[12:33] <lifeless> Kamion: parted asked me to email some random due
[12:33] <lifeless> *dude*
[12:34] <elmo> lamont was quite clear yesterday, that _one_ isolated buildd had issues and that it's been taken out of rotation
[12:34] <Amaranth> oh :P
[12:34] <Amaranth> I wasn't here for that part, just going by what I saw in #ubuntu-motu
[12:34] <elmo> Amaranth: dude, he was talking _to you_
[12:35] <Amaranth> he was?
[12:35] <elmo> yes.
[12:35] <Amaranth> err, i don't remember that
[12:35] <Kamion> lifeless: oh, I see that now but had never looked at that code before
[12:35] <Amaranth> oh well
[12:35] <Kamion> but thanks for the mail
[12:35] <elmo> 18:48 < lamont> Amaranth: there is _one_ buildd that is throwing random segv's, removed from the rotation until it gets a good checkup.  otherwise, life is goin
[12:36] <elmo> g well.
[12:36] <Amaranth> sorry
[12:37] <jsgotangco> bye bye
[12:38] <Kamion> -rwxr-xr-x  1 root root 14621 2004-04-18 18:15 /bin/lsb_release
[12:38] <Kamion> a *shell script*. Jesus, whatever happened to writing small code
[12:39] <ajmitch_> hi seb
[12:40] <mvirkkil> Has anyone seen evolution causing the hd to stall? Doing an 'ls' will not work. I get messages like 'pio timeout' and 'dma write failed'.
[12:40] <mvirkkil> I don't understand how evolution could be causing it, but it only happens after I've used evolution.
[12:40] <dholbach> sounds rather like kernel/hardware's fault?
[12:41] <Amaranth> yeah, i'd say it's the hard drive
[12:43] <tseng> daniels: right now its looking like there are regressions in dh_clideps, alot of mono depends are busted
[12:44] <daniels> tseng: awesome
[12:44] <tseng> yeah it might be a bit longer
[12:52] <seb128> elmo: can you ban python-gtk2 from the archive, we have renamed it to pygtk
[12:53] <dholbach> seb128: there are a lot of packages depending on it still
[12:53] <dholbach> seb128: 37
[12:53] <seb128> dholbach: ??
[12:53] <seb128> dholbach: you didn't get it
[12:54] <dholbach> ok :-)
[12:54] <seb128> apt-cache showsrc python-gtk2
[12:54] <dholbach> yesyes :-))
[12:54] <dholbach> i was already worried ;-)
[12:54] <seb128> you really think I want to kick pygtk out of the distro??
[12:54] <dholbach> seb128: if you have a lousy day, i could imagine so :-)
[12:54] <seb128> you should take some sleep dude :)
[12:55] <seb128> ah ah
[01:07] <pitti> seb128: do you know anything about upstream's status of transitioning to dbus 0.33 and hal 0.5?
[01:07] <pitti> seb128: I mean for gnome-vfs and the like
[01:07] <seb128> GNOME is fine
[01:07] <seb128> FC4 uses dbus 0.33 and hal 0.5
[01:08] <seb128> so they have the corresponding patches for GNOME
[01:08] <dholbach> seb128 is too well informed about RH :-)
[01:08] <seb128> the gnomevfs changes are already upstream
[01:08] <pitti> seb128: so if daniels and me upload the new crack in the next days, you could make gvfs work again relatively quickly?
[01:08] <seb128> dholbach: I went to the UbuntuAndUpstream BOF :)
[01:08] <seb128> pitti: I'm ready for the switch
[01:08] <dholbach> hahaaaha :-)
[01:08] <pitti> cool
[01:09] <daniels> tseng: mono in main pls
[01:09] <dholbach> seb128: i got lost in FindingPackages :-)
[01:09] <dholbach> daniels: he drove to work
[01:09] <pitti> seb128: now I'm breaking my head about providing a clean upgrade transition, when we have it we are ready to go
[01:09] <seb128> pitti: I talk with upstream yesterday, gnome-vfs CVS is fine, just need to do a CVS package
[01:09] <seb128> pitti: upstream is running breezy, with your packages from 3 weeks ago and gnome-vfs CVS
[01:09] <Zomb> tseng:  feel free to join #debian-mono if you have something to contribute
[01:10] <dholbach> Zomb: he drove to work
[01:10] <daniels> pitti: if all you guys are waiting on is dbus, I'll throw libdbus-cil out for the time being and sort the mono component out later
[01:11] <pitti> daniels: I just upgraded to your packages (breaking my whole packaging system with --force-depends all over the place)
[01:11] <pitti> daniels: now I'm compiling hal 0.5.1
[01:11] <daniels> yeah, I can't install anything anymore
[01:11] <daniels> apt showers me in hate
[01:12] <pitti> daniels: it would be easier if dbus would at least Provide: dbus-1 for a transition period
[01:12] <pitti> daniels: alternatively we need an emtpy transition package
[01:12] <daniels> um
[01:12] <daniels> the only dbus-1 depends would be autogenerated
[01:12] <pitti> it isn't nice, though
[01:12] <daniels> i.e. files linked against libdbus-1.so.0 that would break anyway
[01:13] <pitti> daniels: okay, we can also collect all packages depending on dbus-1 and recompile them in one shot
[01:13] <daniels> that's the one
[01:16] <Amaranth> hmm, not too many in that list
[01:17] <Amaranth> or does rdepends only show the packages i have installed?
[01:17] <Lathiat> oyes
[01:17] <Lathiat> only those you have installed
[01:18] <daniels> er, rdepends is an apt-cache thing
[01:18] <daniels> it shows everything
[01:18] <Lathiat> oh
[01:18] <Lathiat> my bad
[01:20] <pitti> daniels: uh, apt-get -f install is ... interesting
[01:20] <Kamion> elmo: any news on that ziyi fix? can I help?
[01:20] <Lathiat> pitti: interesting?
[01:20] <pitti> Lathiat: it basically wants to remove all of gnome
[01:21] <Lathiat> heh
[01:21] <Lathiat> what do you have broken
[01:21] <elmo> Kamion: meh.  sorry, forgot.  really doing
[01:21] <daniels> pitti: yeah
[01:21] <pitti> Lathiat: upgraded to daniel's dbus pacakges :)
[01:21] <mvo> the fixer has interessting ideas somestimes :)
[01:21] <Lathiat> haha
[01:21] <Kamion> elmo: np, thanks
[01:21] <pitti> mvo: in fact it's the only way to return to a consistent state (unless you teach apt to downgrade and change packages)
[01:22] <Kamion> have to kick up new d-i to get working framebuffer anyway
[01:31] <mvirkkil> dholbach, Amaranth: Yeah, I figured that hd failure was the most likely problem, but I cannot reproduce it with any kind of stresstesting/usage besides opening evolution.
[01:32] <mvirkkil> dholbach, Amaranth: Oh, well. I guess I should make backups and start looking for a new hd since there is no other logical explanation to the problem.
[01:32] <Amaranth> pop it in another computer and mount it read only
[01:32] <dholbach> mvirkkil: i'm no expert on this... sorry :-/
[01:33] <seb128> pitti: it probably wants to drop gnomevfs?
[01:33] <mvirkkil> How usable is breezy at the moment?
[01:33] <pitti> seb128: it wants to drop gnome
[01:33] <pitti> mvirkkil: works reasonable for me (apart from local breakage)
[01:33] <mvirkkil> For development that is (ie how far is the gcc transition)?
[01:34] <seb128> pitti: yeah, I've understood that, just figuring why ... that's probably due to lib like gnomevfs
[01:34] <pitti> yeah
[01:34] <seb128> where are you package guys? so I can break everything too and fix gnome :)
[01:37] <Kamion> mvirkkil: C++ transition hasn't happened yet
[01:38] <thom> seb128: epiphany needs a minor patch to build with new dbus; i filed an upstream bug about it (#301153)
[01:38] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Does an eta exist?
[01:39] <seb128> thom: rock, thanks
[01:41] <dholbach> Kamion: the complete-complete-complete c++ transition will take *some* time, we have to touch some hundred packages for it, but breezy itself will be usable still
[01:41] <Kamion> mvirkkil: over the next few days for main, I believe
[01:41] <Kamion> dholbach: sure
[01:41] <Kamion> dholbach: I was around the last time it happened in Debian, I know the ropes :)
[01:42] <mvirkkil> dholbach: Ok. Then I'll upgrade to breezy, since the new kernel supports my tv-out card :-)
[01:42] <dholbach> Kamion, mvirkkil: it will be SO MUCH fun, i can feel it already :-)
[01:42] <mvirkkil> dholbach: And I'm working on my own little version of usplash
[01:42] <Kamion> you guys have a strange concept of fun ;)
[01:42] <daniels> yeah, the 1.02 transition was awesome
[01:42] <dholbach> Kamion: ... says the debian-installer guy :-))))
[01:43] <mvirkkil> Kamion: You are the d-i guy?
[01:43] <Kamion> mvirkkil: yes
[01:43] <Kamion> well, the one in Ubuntu, anyway
[01:43] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Cool. I've been playing around with bogl quite a bit, and I was wondering if theree is any interest in trying to prettify the widgets?
[01:44] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Or is it a moot point withthe new graphical installer?
[01:45] <Kamion> we aren't targetting cdebconf/gtk for breezy, see http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/GraphicalInstaller
[01:45] <Kamion> so sure
[01:45] <ogra> yay
[01:45] <mvirkkil> Kamion: But the target is running the graphical installer off of the live cd?
[01:46] <Kamion> mvirkkil: it'll be custom pygtk widgets, the startup process will still be bogl/newt
[01:46] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Ok. Nice to know.
[01:47] <Kamion> and the regular non-live-CD installer will still be fully supported
[01:48] <mvirkkil> Kamion: Yes, but once the live-cd supports installation, 90% will use that.
[01:48] <pitti> daniels: why does libdbus-1-1 conflict to dbus-1? is this really necessary?
[01:48] <Kamion> that's a moot point, but I don't really feel like arguing the toos
[01:49] <Kamion> toss
[01:49] <daniels> pitti: sure
[01:49] <daniels> pitti: dbus-1 provided the dbus binaries as well as the library
[01:49] <Kamion> I suspect that people installing 90% of machines (i.e. big deployments) will continue to use the regular installer, even if 90% of *people* use the live CD-based one
[01:49] <Kamion> :-)
[01:49] <pitti> daniels: yeah, but I thought dbus-1 provides SONAME 0, whereas libdbus-1-1 provides SONAME 1?
[01:49] <daniels> pitti: SONAME 0 and binaries
[01:50] <Mitario> hi everyone
[01:50] <daniels> pitti: and the 'dbus' package now provides the binaries
[01:50] <pitti> daniels: libdbus-1-1 provides binaries?
[01:50] <mvirkkil> Kamion: When you put it that way.. I trust your judgement. I'll probably try looking in to bogl's widget a bit during next week.
[01:50] <daniels> so that would only be useful for old dbus-1, new libdbus-1-1
[01:50] <daniels> which would be a situation that's kind of hard to engineer :)
[01:50] <pitti> hm, ok
[01:50] <Kamion> mvirkkil: what sort of changes are you thinking of?
[01:50] <pitti> daniels: I downgraded to hoary versions and now I try to convince apt to install the new crack
[01:51] <daniels> pitti: mmm, I can sort of see that
[01:51] <mvirkkil> Kamion: No changes in functionality. Just making the progressbar and pushbuttons a bit prettier.
[01:51] <Kamion> 'k
[01:51] <daniels> pitti: but you still couldn't dist-upgrade in any case
[01:52] <elmo> (disabling cron.daily & cron.unchecked)
[01:52] <pitti> daniels: I collect a list of packages which need to be upgraded
[01:53] <daniels> pitti: apt-cache rdepends dbus-1 dbus-qt-1 dbus-glib-1?
[01:54] <elmo> Kamion: could you use your jackass supah powahs to check out the new breezy/Releases and see if that works for you?
[01:54] <seb128> elmo: have you read about python-gtk2?
[01:54] <elmo> seb128: yes, I've excluded it from further syncs
[01:54] <elmo> I'll remove the source in a bit.  and eds1.2 too
[01:54] <seb128> thanks
[01:57] <Kamion> elmo: looks good, thanks
[01:58] <elmo> k, cron.daily/unchecked re-enabled. full speed, MAXIMUM CHICKEN, ahead!
[01:59] <thom> Keybuk: any progress with moz-ffox -> ffox MOM love? :-)
[02:00] <Keybuk> thom: we blacklisted it, so no merges or syncs will happen for either
[02:00] <Keybuk> that's about as much progress as you can expect :p
[02:00] <Keybuk> elmo's sync stuff needs to understand mappings before mom can
[02:01] <daniels> thom: yeah, i pity you.  i mean, syncs are hard, but now you have to do the syncs in debian, too!
[02:01] <seb128> Keybuk: speaking about merge, atm we don't get sync bugs for experimental?
[02:01] <thom> daniels: that made no sense
[02:02] <daniels> thom: well, you have been uploading to ftp-amster
[02:02] <Keybuk> seb128: that's right
[02:02] <Keybuk> actually, I think you do?
[02:02] <thom> oh, right. it was an attempt at humour. sorry i missed out on that stunning joke
[02:02] <Keybuk> they go in Bugzilla, no?
[02:02] <elmo> no, you won't
[02:03] <elmo> at least not unless mom developed her own smarts
[02:03] <elmo> my sync stuff doesn't remember where stuff came from last
[02:03] <seb128> Keybuk: I don't think so, I don't get bug for GNOME 2.10 afaik
[02:03] <elmo> since we're going to be using it for another 6 months, I should probably fix that
[02:03] <Keybuk> seb128: oh, sorry
[02:03] <Keybuk> experimental != universe
[02:03] <Keybuk> my brain is entirely fried today
[02:04] <seb128> ;)
[02:04] <Keybuk> that's right
[02:04] <zul> hey
[02:04] <Keybuk> mom only knows about unstable
[02:04] <seb128> maybe that would be a good idea to teach it about experimental too?
[02:04] <Amaranth> what is mom? :)
[02:04] <thom> elmo: can you do mappings while you're at it too, please ;-)
[02:04] <Keybuk> maybe
[02:05] <Keybuk> you can add that to the bottom of my copious todo list :p
[02:05] <Keybuk> should be able to have it ready for you by windy or gusty
[02:05] <seb128> bah, why am I trying to get extra bugs
[02:05] <Kamion> Amaranth: merge-o-matic
[02:05] <seb128> I already have enough :p
[02:05] <pitti> seb128: I think we need you for the transition
[02:05] <aj> "windy weasel" ?
[02:05] <aj> what an awesome release name
[02:05] <seb128> pitti: <seb128> where are you package guys? so I can break everything too and fix gnome :)
[02:05] <seb128> pitti: was half an hour ago :)
[02:06] <elmo> WTF
[02:06] <seb128> pitti: ie: gimme the crack and I fix my part
[02:06] <Kamion> hmm, I probably shouldn't even bother trying to build CDs this week, should I?
[02:06] <elmo> why isn't svn diff in alpha order?
[02:06] <Keybuk> breezy all installed today, I was quite shocked
[02:06] <Kamion> elmo: never understood that
[02:07] <Kamion> Keybuk: considering the state of http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/breezy_probs.html, that surprises me
[02:07] <pitti> seb128: with the packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/dbus/ and http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/utopia/, could you put upgraded packages into p.u.c./~seb128/dbus/ ?
[02:07] <pitti> seb128: gnome-vfs2, nautilus-cd-burner, totem, gnome-media, evolution
[02:07] <pitti> seb128: there are some more packages affected, but above will do for testing
[02:07] <pitti> seb128: (rest: update-notifier, epiphany-browser, bluez-pin, bluez-utils, screem)
[02:07] <daniels> oh dear
[02:07] <daniels> 4466     May 10 bugzilla-daemon (   0) [Bug 10589]   New: render: new changes from Debian require merging
[02:07] <seb128> pitti: epiphany-browser has a patch from thom
[02:08] <pitti> seb128: ah, I misunderstood "where are you package guys" -> I'm right at home :-)
[02:08] <pitti> seb128: "packages, guys" would have made it clear :-)
[02:08] <seb128> yeah, sorry
[02:08] <seb128> s/you/your/ too
[02:09] <seb128> pitti: I just grab something to eat and start working on that, should take ~2 hours I think
[02:09] <seb128> for the list you gave
[02:10] <pitti> cool
[02:10] <Kamion> elmo: promoting lshw-common to main would deal with most of the ubuntu-standard uninstallability, I think
[02:10] <elmo> what the heck is lshw-common anyways? it's not even arch: all
[02:11] <Kamion> looks like it's meant to be
[02:11] <Kamion> I'll file a bug
[02:12] <Kamion> I think its point was to be common between lshw and lshw-gtk
[02:14] <elmo> Kamion: promoted
[02:14] <Kamion> ... and bug filed. thanks
[02:30] <thom> Keybuk: also, MoM probably ought to check hoary-updates/hoary-security to see if there's a later package in there?
[02:31] <Keybuk> what's MoM got to do with hoary?
[02:31] <thom> ok, not MoM; but you get the point i was trying to make?
[02:31] <Keybuk> nda?
[02:31] <Keybuk> yeah, probably
[02:31] <Lathiat> what is Mom?
[02:32] <thom> Lathiat: read scrollback
[02:32] <dholbach> merge-o-matic
[02:32] <Keybuk> actually, nda runs against breezy too
[02:32] <dholbach> read the bugzilla bugs resolved as UNIVERSE and you get an idea
[02:32] <thom> n/m; it's a usecase that doesn't really apply
[02:33] <dholbach> see you later guys
[02:33] <Keybuk> maybe it should check unstable for packages that were supposed to go into breezy? :p
[02:34] <thom> assuming anyone manages that i think we have bigger problems than merges :p
[02:35] <doko> keybuk: can we stop the merge-reminders for packages depending on python* for some time? we should do these when etch does the python transition
[02:35] <Keybuk> no
[02:36] <Keybuk> or, perhaps, "patches welcome" :p
[02:37] <pitti> mvo: using the packages in http://people.ubuntu.com/~daniels/dbus/, could you please prepare a new update-notifier for the new dbus?
[02:38] <mvo> pitti: yes
[02:38] <pitti> mvo: cool, thanks
[02:38] <pitti> mvo: it's a new API, so this probably requires some porting efforts
[02:38] <mvo> pitti: the url is not apt-able?
[02:38] <pitti> mvo: I already did the porting for pmount, so if you need some hints, just ping me :)
[02:39] <mvo> pitti: will do, thanks :)
[02:39] <pitti> mvo: no, you can't install the packages with apt
[02:39] <pitti> mvo: dpkg -i --force-depends :-/
[02:39] <mvo> *ick*
[02:39] <pitti> mvo, seb128: oh, and before: sudo dpkg -P --force-depends dbus-1 dbus-1-doc dbus-glib-1
[02:40] <pitti> mvo: as I said, that's very rough, that's why we need to upload all packages in one shot
[02:42] <pitti> mvo: you can install the new hal if you want/need it for u-m from http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/utopia/
[02:42] <pitti> u-n even
[02:53] <eruin> is there inotify support in the current breezy kernel?
[02:54] <Amaranth> eruin: there will be
[02:55] <kamstrup> Will it be enabled?
[02:56] <kamstrup> -- at boot i mean.
[02:56] <eruin> I'm checking out linux-source 2.6.12 atm
[02:56] <Amaranth> eruin: That's 2.6.12rc2, iirc
[02:56] <eruin> and loving the fact that beagle is in breez ;)
[02:56] <eruin> <IP_ADDRESS> they say
[02:57] <Amaranth> yeah, it's rc2 or rc3
[02:57] <fabbione> 92 is out
[02:57] <kamstrup> Too bad I can't use Beagle :( My /home is on an XFS
[02:57] <fabbione> just wait for the buildd
[02:57] <fabbione> that is rc4
[02:57] <Amaranth> fabbione: hot
[02:58] <Amaranth> p.u.c uses GMT, right?
[02:58] <kamstrup> I've heard Beagle-talk in many distros by now, but nobody seems to be addressing the fact that it requires xattr
[02:58] <kamstrup> what's up with that?
[02:58] <Treenaks> kamstrup: suse 9.3 does
[02:58] <fabbione> we have xattr enabled
[02:59] <fabbione> on all FS that actually supports it
[02:59] <kamstrup> Yes, for ext3/2 partitions right?
[02:59] <fabbione> also for all the others that have xattr
[02:59] <fabbione> it's not only ext2/3
[02:59] <Amaranth> kamstrup: Why the heck are you using XFS? :)
[02:59] <kamstrup> I started using XFS way back when nobody was talking xattr
[03:00] <daniels> hm, I thought XFS supported xattr if you compiled it right
[03:00] <kamstrup> I'm quite sure it doesn't
[03:00] <seb128> pitti: /usr/sbin/hald: unrecognized option `--drop-privileges'
[03:01] <pitti> seb128: known upgrade problem
[03:01] <seb128> k
[03:01] <pitti> seb128: should work anyway
[03:01] <kamstrup> wait... maybe it did once, but it was dropped because it was buggy... :S
[03:01] <daniels> yes, yes it does
[03:01] <daniels> http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0203.3/att-0298/01-xattr-2.4.19-pre4.patch
[03:01] <daniels> that was against 2.4.19
[03:01] <kamstrup> I thought right :)
[03:02] <kamstrup> daniels: - and I wonder how you came up with an obscure link like that so fast :)
[03:03] <daniels> kamstrup: google
[03:03] <kamstrup> Maybe I should go back to 2.4.19 when Breezy hits the road?
[03:03] <kamstrup> Oh... I've heard about that :)
[03:03] <daniels> well, I assume it got merged in somewhere along the way
[03:04] <Amaranth> php says xattr is supported on xfs :)
[03:04] <thom> xfs supports xattr by defaqult, it's just built in
[03:04] <thom> no options required
[03:04] <daniels> right
[03:06] <kamstrup> Oh...
[03:07] <kamstrup> I was just skimming "make menuconfig" and couldn't find any xattr for XFS/JFS/ReiserFS, that explains that partially
[03:07] <Amaranth> *boggle*
[03:08] <Amaranth> wait, xattrs are file metadata?
[03:08] <kamstrup> Yes. Kinda
[03:08] <Amaranth> extendable, customizable, file metadata?
[03:08] <Amaranth> meaning, no limits to keys and such
[03:09] <kamstrup> "Extended attributes are name:value pairs associated with inodes by the kernel or by users"
[03:09] <kamstrup> -- from menuconfig
[03:09] <Amaranth> when did this get sneaked in and why isn't anyone making a big deal out of it?
[03:09] <kamstrup> I dunno...
[03:09] <kamstrup> I read on the lkml that Linus thinks it is a hack :)
[03:09] <Amaranth> pfft
[03:10] <kamstrup> What about resier4 in the kernel? Suse has that too right?
[03:10] <Amaranth> that'd be nice :)
[03:10] <thom> suse are welcome to it
[03:10] <daniels> xattrs have been in there for about a bajillion years
[03:11] <kamstrup> and that is a lot of years
[03:12] <Amaranth> maybe no one is making a fuss because no one calls it metadata :)
[03:13] <zul> bleah...reiser4
[03:13] <Treenaks> ricerfs
[03:13] <thom> eraserfs
[03:13] <kamstrup> Hehe metadata is taboo and nobody knows what xattr is, so everythings is a ok
[03:15] <kamstrup> In this spirit why not redub "bugs" as "pandas"? Nobody can blame a panda. It is cute and is a threatened species.
[03:15] <kamstrup> "Fedora Core is full of pandas"
[03:16] <Amaranth> kamstrup: But then developers couldn't squash pandas and no one would like Fedora. ;)
[03:16] <kamstrup> Amaranth: I see.
[03:18] <kamstrup> geiserfs
[03:18] <kamstrup> -- explodes every day at 12 o clock :)
[03:18] <Treenaks> kamstrup: kaiserfs ?
[03:20] <Amaranth> ok, ok, so it sucks right now
[03:20] <Amaranth> it's a good idea tough
[03:20] <Amaranth> err, though
[03:21] <kamstrup> Treenaks: One file-system to rule them all.
[03:22] <kamstrup> I heard that reiser4 needs defragging like ye olde fat-fs's... Is that correct?
[03:22] <Amaranth> it's designed so it doesn't need defragged
[03:22] <Amaranth> or something like that, the buzzwords went over my head
[03:23] <kamstrup> But I heard it did anyway
[03:23] <lamont> ah, partimage.  sigh
[03:23] <eruin> this all sounds like quake
[03:23] <Amaranth> i think it does a mini-defrag on file save
[03:23] <kamstrup> To be more specific: Performance should be amazing at first, but after a while it should decrease steadily...
[03:23] <eruin> I wonder why best doesnt turn up anything but im conversations and stuff like that
[03:24] <kamstrup> eruin: last time I tried best it couldn't find anything but pdfs
[03:24] <Amaranth> it's still indexing
[03:24] <eruin> it doesn't like turning up with anything but im conversations and emails here... it seems to despise files
[03:25] <eruin> allow me to eruin@lorien:~ $ export BEAGLE_EXERCISE_THE_DOG=1
[03:25] <kamstrup> Hehe... I had it exactly the other way around...  :P
[03:26] <eruin> didn't seem to have an effect
[03:27] <eruin> atleast
[03:27] <eruin> it's not using any cpu
[03:27] <eruin> :P
[03:27] <kamstrup> Will there be Python Cairo bindings in Breezy? (they kick as - but cvs doesn't work atm)
[03:31] <daniels> kamstrup: when they make it into a released tarball, yeah
[03:31] <daniels> i'm not comfortable with tracking cvs until carl gets bored with breaking the api every other day
[03:32] <mvo> ping jdub
[03:32] <jdub> yo mvo
[03:33] <jdub> mvo: hrm, wandering off for a bit - perhaps mail me? :)
[03:33] <mvo> jdub: what do you think about michiel gui suggestion http://blogs.gnome.org/michiels
[03:33] <mvo> jdub: oh, ok. no problem :)
[03:35] <jdub> mvo: excellent changes :-)
[03:35] <jdub> mvo: (just caught me ;)
[03:41] <hunger> The 686-smp kernel does not seem to robust... two crashes since I switched to it this morning:-(
[03:43] <eruin> fabbione: any way to enable inotify in the 2.6.12 kernel give in ubuntu-devel@, or even in the stock breezy kernel?
[03:43] <fabbione> eruin: inotify is enable in <IP_ADDRESS> and .92
[03:43] <fabbione> by default
[03:43] <eruin> cheers ;)
[03:43] <fabbione> there is no stock breezy kernel
[03:43] <fabbione> the breezy kernel will be 2.6.12
[03:44] <fabbione> when it will be final
[03:44] <fabbione> and so on...
[03:44] <eruin> ah, thanks for clearing that up :)
[03:56] <ogra> Treenaks, thanks, perfect timing for the fresh coffee ;)
[04:12] <mvo> pitti: I ported update-manager, but I'm unable to test it because it looks like gnome-volume-manager is not doing anything anymore. puting in a cd has no effect. is this a know problem? or am I just missing something :)?
[04:20] <thom> seb128: can you have a look at #9097?
[04:20] <seb128> sure I can
[04:21] <thom> ta
[04:21] <seb128> thom: I've asked for a bt with the -dbg
[04:23] <ogra> <-- bath
[04:26] <pitti> mvo: did you upgrade to my gvm at p.u.c/~pitti/utopia/?
[04:26] <mvo> pitti: yes
[04:27] <pitti> mvo: does it still run? if not, you might need to start it manually in a shell
[04:28] <mvo> pitti: I just restarted it, no effect. I also restarted dbus ... anymore I need to do?
[04:30] <pitti> mvo: did you upgrade hal?
[04:30] <mvo> pitti: yes
[04:30] <pitti> mvo: what does gvm say when you insert the CD?
[04:30] <mvo> pitti: nothing
[04:30] <pitti> grumpf
[04:31] <pitti> mvo: can you email me a lshal before and after inserting the cd?
[04:32] <seb128> pitti: I've updated packages for gnome-vfs gnome-media nautilus-cd-burner epiphany-browser
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: you rock
[04:33] <pitti> seb128: can you put them on people?
[04:33] <seb128> k
[04:33] <seb128> I'm working on evo which ftbfs for different reason
[04:33] <seb128> I blame Mithrandir who brokes pkg-config
[04:34] <xuzo> lshw-common is not instable from a debootstraped breezy, should report this has a bug?
[04:34] <seb128> I'll already upload the other stuff on pu.c
[04:35] <pitti> seb128: does the new hal work for you?
[04:36] <Kamion> xuzo: it was in universe; already fixed
[04:37] <xuzo> Kamion, should be in main?
[04:37] <Kamion> xuzo: yes
[04:37] <xuzo> s/should/shold not/
[04:37] <Kamion> xuzo: may not have hit your mirror yet
[04:37] <xuzo> oh, ok
[04:37] <seb128> pitti: putting an audio CD starts the CD player and lshal works fine
[04:38] <seb128> pitti: I've not tried out of this
[04:38] <pitti> mvo: ^ fix your system :-)
[04:38] <seb128> I had to restart gnome-volume-manager
[04:38] <doko> lamont: no need to try the glibc build. it currently FTBFS
[04:38] <Kamion> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/report.html
[04:38] <seb128> it crashed some time after the update
[04:39] <Kamion> ^-- hitlist
[04:39] <seb128> with an useless bt ...
[04:39] <pitti> seb128: yes, I did not yet port the reconnect patch
[04:39] <pitti> seb128: such big patches are a PITA to port, but upstream simply does not accept patches
[04:39] <seb128> not sure
[04:40] <pitti> seb128: at some point gvm just needs to be rewritten from scratch...
[04:40] <seb128> I would say 'upstream is not reactive'
[04:40] <seb128> jdub, mdz: should I put sabayon on ship?
[04:40] <Kamion> lamont: any reason lvm2's taking so long to build on powerpc?
[04:40] <seb128> pitti: crappy design?
[04:41] <lamont> doko: ok.  holler when then
[04:41] <pitti> seb128: debian/patches is bigger than upstream source
[04:41] <pitti> seb128: and yes, the code is a mess
[04:41] <seb128> utch
[04:43] <lamont> Kamion: because I'm a muppet???  given back. thanks
[04:44] <Kamion> ta
[04:44] <Kamion> it was in state Building so I wasn't sure
[04:44] <luis_> tseng: BTW, any chance you'll build a muine-plugins package at some point?
[04:44] <luis_> (now that the tray icon is a plugin, I'm desirous of the plugins :)
[04:45] <seb128> luis_: we have fixed the sabayon hang and some other issues and I've uploaded the package like 1 hour ago
[04:45] <luis_> seb128: rock!
[04:45] <luis_> seb128: I will experiment with it within 24 hours; rest of today is sort of busy for me
[04:45] <seb128> works fine here, but feedbacks are welcome when the package is available
[04:46] <luis_> definitely
[04:46] <seb128> k, thanks
[04:46] <luis_> is there a tool to allow you to load settings yet? the webpage seems to suggest 'no'
[04:46] <lamont> Kamion: worse yet - building with a log file... :-)
[04:46] <Lathiat> can you make dupload upload a binary?
[04:46] <wasabi_> so i was thinking more about my .apt file idea.
[04:46] <Kamion> lamont: ?
[04:46] <pitti> Lathiat: yes, it uploads everything that it is in the changes file
[04:46] <wasabi_> this technically would work for rpm based distros too.
[04:46] <wasabi_> which is pretty compelling.
[04:47] <pitti> Lathiat: however, we don't do binary uploads in Ubuntu
[04:47] <Kamion> mdz: could you remove little:cdimage/,,new-pristine* ?
[04:47] <wasabi_> (people might use it)
[04:47] <Lathiat> pitti: no
[04:47] <Lathiat> pitti: but when uploading to my personal webspace
[04:47] <Lathiat> i'd like to send the i386 build with the source
[04:47] <lamont> Kamion: building-with-a-log ==> failed.  although in this case, it was a non-auto dep-wait
[04:47] <pitti> Lathiat: build without -S (i. e. use the default), then this will be a source+binary build
[04:47] <lamont> that I managed to delete/not receive, some how
[04:48] <Lathiat> pitti: right
[04:48] <Kamion> lamont: ah, ok
[04:48] <Lathiat> thanks
[04:48] <Kamion> breezy powerpc CD overflowed
[04:48] <Kamion> by about 40MB
[04:48] <mvo> pitti: thanks, hal+update-manager love each other again now
[04:48] <lamont> Kamion: woot!
[04:48] <pitti> mvo: rock
[04:49] <jdub> Kamion: it's going to be even funnier when we start shifing goals into main :-)
[04:49] <Kamion> CD 1 filled with 606583310 bytes ... (limit was 614046105)
[04:49] <Kamion> that limit could be increased a bit though
[04:49] <jdub> seb128: supported, methinks
[04:49] <Kamion> jdub: I don't care about main, I care about ship. :)
[04:49] <lamont> Kamion: at some point, shipseed is gonna have to take one for the team, though.
[04:49] <jdub> Kamion: ship's getting bigger?
[04:50] <Kamion> jdub: I never said it was
[04:50] <lamont> doko: libggi is ICE
[04:51] <jdub> Kamion: if you said it was, i wouldn't have asked...
[04:51] <lamont> doko: er, that was libggi_1:2.0.5-1ubuntu2, since superseded
[04:51] <Kamion> jdub: not to my knowledge
[04:51] <jdub> Kamion: (my point being, goals are going to move into ship and desktop - that's going to be funny this release)
[04:51] <lamont> doko: er, nm.  libgii != libggi.  libggi is ICE
[04:51] <Kamion> jdub: we get to ditch languages then, fundamentally
[04:52] <Kamion> though ppc64 kernel will help a bit
[04:52] <seb128> luis_: I've documented the file format to load profiles, you have to edit that manually atm
[04:53] <seb128> README.Debian has an example
[04:53] <luis_> ah, great, thanks
[04:53] <seb128> np
[04:53] <seb128> jdub: can you modify the seed you feel right? the package name is "sabayon" ;)
[04:55] <Lathiat> heh
[04:56] <ogra> seb128, GettingRidOfTheDesktop ?? i thought that was a joke from your side : http://udu.wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BreezyGoals
[04:57] <seb128> ogra: that's a joke
[04:57] <ogra> heh
[04:57] <seb128> ogra: probably JaneW who doesn't know :)
[04:57] <ogra> yes, thats what i thought
[04:58] <JaneW> huh?
[04:58] <JaneW> hehee
[04:58] <seb128> JaneW: "GettingRidOfTheDesktop" is a joke based on "CommandLineDisintegration" aka "GettingRidOfTheCommandLine" from daniel :)
[04:58] <JaneW> sorry some of those things I thought were inside jokes, but I was afraid of leaving off anything NB
[04:58] <JaneW> *nod*
[04:59] <JaneW> we were trying to improve a big enterprise Windows product
[04:59] <JaneW> someone chirped lets rewrite it in Unix
[05:00] <JaneW> and it was minuted as an action
[05:00] <JaneW> ;)
[05:00] <ogra> heh
[05:00] <seb128> rofl
[05:00] <seb128> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/dbus/
[05:01] <seb128> pitti: I've a workaround for evolution, building atm
[05:01] <mvo> pitti: new hal/dbus update-notifier: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-notifier
[05:02] <pitti> that's like Christmas...
[05:06] <seb128> pitti: we are ready for upload so? :)
[05:06] <pitti> seb128: no :-(
[05:07] <seb128> why?
[05:07] <pitti> seb128: let me test the crack before, and we still need to find a good hal transition
[05:07] <pitti> seb128: you saw that bug
[05:07] <seb128> yeah
[05:10] <jdub> how on earth did keno make it into supported?
[05:10] <jdub> er
[05:10] <jdub> kino
[05:11] <pitti> seb128: cool, with all those packages it looks like the update could actually work now
[05:13] <pitti> seb128: damn, the update goes flawlessly, but nothing depends on dbus, so dbus does not get installed
[05:14] <seb128> pitti: hal doesn't require dbus?
[05:15] <pitti> seb128: something has to depend on dbus, for my sake that is hal
[05:15] <seb128> agreed
[05:15] <pitti> seb128: before, dbus-1 contained the library and the daemon, thus it was a shlibs-depend
[05:15] <pitti> seb128: now libdbus-1-1 does not contain the daemon any more, so we need an explicit dependency
[05:15] <pitti> hal makes sense
[05:15] <seb128> right
[05:16] <pitti> seb128: now I have to downgrade all of this stuff again *sigh*
[05:16] <seb128> yep, let's poke the hal maintainer ;)
[05:16] <pitti> ouch
[05:16] <pitti> Hi astharot
[05:16] <astharot> ciao
[05:16] <ogra> pitti, nooo
[05:16] <pitti> astharot: 2:45 to go :-)
[05:16] <astharot> ciao pitti
[05:17] <astharot> 2:45 ?!?!
[05:17] <astharot> are you crazy?
[05:17] <pitti> hours
[05:17] <astharot> it's 17:17
[05:17] <pitti> oops, no
[05:17] <pitti> 0:45
[05:17] <astharot> 0:45
[05:17] <astharot> !
[05:17] <pitti> argh, already sooo late..
[05:17] <astharot> hrehehe
[05:17] <astharot> pvt
[05:17] <astharot> query me
[05:17] <ogra> the tube ^
[05:19] <Mitario> re
[05:20] <mvo> wb Mitario :)
[05:23] <mdz> mvo: pong
[05:24] <pitti> Morning mdz
[05:24] <lamont> Mithrandir: you around?
[05:25] <lamont> CC="gcc-3.4" kinda requires a build-dep on gcc-3.4
[05:25] <zyga> thanks for fixing powernowd :-)
[05:26] <pitti> seb128: hmm, so where are my shiny desktop and Computer place icons?
[05:26] <pitti> seb128: so far I don't even see my CD-ROMs in Computer, do you?
[05:27] <jordi> pitti: gtk bug
[05:27] <pitti> jordi: of course
[05:27] <seb128> pitti: my computer place has 1 floppy, 2 CD, 1 mounted partition and / which seems right
[05:28] <pitti> seb128: ah, I didn't restart my session after upgrade, i. e. the old g-vfs-daemon was probably running
[05:28] <pitti> seb128: next time I try to relogin
[05:28] <seb128> killall gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus
[05:28] <pitti> seb128: I'm currently downgrading again (I wrote a script for that ...)
[05:28] <seb128> should do the trick
[05:28] <seb128> k
[05:28] <pitti> oh right, thanks
[05:29] <mdz> Kamion: removed
[05:29] <Kamion> mdz: which?
[05:30] <mdz> Kamion: ,,new-pristine
[05:30] <Kamion> oh right, thanks
[05:30] <mdz> Kamion: I don't see any other requests from you for me to remove something
[05:32] <Kamion> there weren't AFAIK, I'd just forgotten what I'd asked. :-)
[05:34] <mdz> and good morning :-)
[05:34] <thom> morning mdz
[05:34] <mvo> good morning mdz
[05:34] <Nafallo> morning mdz :-)
[05:34] <Kamion> good morning mr. zimmerman </chorus>
[05:34] <Nafallo> *s*
[05:34] <pitti> seb128, mvo: it's a hell of an upgrade, but it works!
[05:35] <Kamion> I kept being freaked out this morning by reading repeated citations in a friend's PhD thesis of one "M. Zimmermann"
[05:35] <seb128> pitti: why it's a hell?
[05:35] <pitti> seb128, mvo: it's just the cosmetical error about that hal error message
[05:35] <pitti> seb128: it removes, adds, shifts packages all over the place
[05:35] <pitti> seb128: but apt figures it out
[05:35] <seb128> k, fine
[05:35] <seb128> I'm away for ~1h
[05:36] <pitti> and I get shiny icons :-)
[05:36] <pitti> seb128: we should upload tomorrow morning, when daniels is here
[05:36] <seb128> you can start with dbus/hal, I'll follow
[05:36] <pitti> mvo: ^
[05:36] <seb128> k
[05:36] <pitti> seb128: oh, there is a signed changes
[05:36] <mvo> mdz: I have two small patches in apt--mvo--0 for review and merge. I also would like to upload a new version into debian/experimental (can I /msg you about it)?
[05:36] <mvo> pitti: k
[05:37] <pitti> seb128: so in theory we could upload
[05:37] <mvo> pitti: what time (roughly)?
[05:37] <seb128> pitti: there is no hurry, do what you feel right :)
[05:37] <pitti> mvo: it's not that important, apt will hold back updates which break things
[05:37] <mdz> mvo: ok
[05:37] <mdz> mvo: (or #d-d)
[05:47] <willis> what timezone are the build computers in?
[05:47] <Kamion> willis: London time
[05:47] <thom> gmt+1
[05:48] <willis> Kamion, oh cool thanks, that's where i am, makes it easy
[05:48] <lamont> elmo: please migrate libopts25 and libopts25-dev to main, so that autogen can install, and gcc-4.0 will build.  kthxbye
[05:50] <elmo> done
[05:54] <pitti> ogra: but lamont's kick was probably a give-back :-)
[05:54] <Lathiat> haha
[05:55] <ogra> pitti, mine was a real hard kick.... my foot hurts :)
[05:55] <pitti> ogra: how can you hard-kick software?
[05:55] <pitti> ogra: I thought the very definition of software was that kicking it doesn't hurt?
[05:55] <Lathiat> hmm interesting bug in epiphany
[05:55] <Lathiat> on ubuntu wiki edit
[05:56] <Lathiat> the text in the editbox is off about 2 characters to the left of the outline
[05:56] <Lathiat> so is the scrollbar
[05:56] <ogra> pitti, depends how hard you kick it...
[05:56] <ogra> pitti, but i suspect i'll only deform it further.... it wont bring me the missing binarys
[05:57] <lamont> ogra: just remember, mono is a disease that is very tiresome, and hard to get over.
[05:57] <lamont> requires much bedrest
[05:57] <ogra> hmm.... then i'm probably the wrong person for it :)
[05:57] <lamont> heh
[05:57] <lamont> mono == mononucleosis
[05:57] <ogra> heh
[05:58] <ogra> i'm alredy getting dizzy by all these dll's
[05:58] <lamont> hrm... gcc-4.0 pingpong.
[05:59] <dilinger> hm.  malone didn't like that bug followup
[06:13] <jordi> jordi@nubol:~/cvs/gnome/2.10/gnome-mud$ make dist
[06:13] <jordi> make: *** No rule to make target `intltool-modules/XML/Parser/Style/OrigTree.pm', needed by `distdir'.  Stop.
[06:13] <jordi> does anyone know what this is about?
[06:20] <pitti> trulux: here?
[06:20] <pitti> trulux: if so, please join the CC to apply for membership
[06:21] <hunger> Who fixed powernowd?
[06:22] <dholbach> zmore /usr/share/doc/powernowd/changelog.Debian.gz
[06:23] <Nafallo> Baby: hi :-)
[06:23] <hunger> Could someone apply the patch attached to bug #10457 to powernowd's init-script, please?
[06:23] <Baby> hi Nafallo!! :)
[06:24] <hunger> thom: You got that bug assigned to:-)
[06:25] <trulux> pitti: just came back from class, sure
[06:29] <lamont> seb128: sabayon missing build-deps
[06:29] <lamont> specifically libxml-parser-perl
[06:33] <seb128> lamont: k
[06:38] <Nafallo> jdub: u-c-april isn't in breezy?
[07:16] <mxpxpod> how would I get hotplug to overwrite the configs I have in /etc when installing it?
[07:19] <tim_> anyone know if there is a e17-ubuntu in the works? I saw a mention that there was talk of it in an interview with mark shuttleworth (think thta was the name)....sry if this isn't the right channel to ask
[07:20] <seb128> is there a e17?
[07:20] <tim_> its still in development
[07:20] <tim_> but i'm using it....and its damn sexy
[07:20] <dredg> seb128: due out after duke nukem forever
[07:21] <tim_> i've been using it for a few months now, development goes at a pretty incredible rate and its pretty stable, i have yet to have it crash on me
[07:21] <ogra> tim_, put it on the UniverseCandidates wiki page... if soeone wants to package i he will grab it there
[07:22] <ogra> if someone wants to package it he will grab it there
[07:22] <mxpxpod> or, actually, how would I get dpkg to ask me if I want to overwrite the /etc stuff when I install hotplug?
[07:23] <cartman> anyone investigating tar failures on all arches? Looks like a gcc4 problem
[07:23] <tim_> ogra, should I put it there if its still in heavy development? It would require that it be maintained and updated rather frequently
[07:23] <Kamion> mxpxpod: look at dpkg's --force-conf{new,old,def,miss} options in dpkg --force-help
[07:23] <ogra> tim_, then we could have a snapsot in universe or something
[07:24] <tim_> ogra, alrighty cool...thx for the help :)
[07:25] <mxpxpod> Kamion: also, how do I download the .debs using apt-get if I already have the newest version of hotplug?
[07:25] <dredg> apt-get install hotplug=version.number
[07:27] <Mithrandir> seb128: pong
[07:27] <Mithrandir> lamont: pong
[07:27] <seb128> Mithrandir: about the pkg-config issue we spoke some days ago
[07:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: that's ftbfsing some GNOME stuff which is getting annoying
[07:28] <tseng|work> ogra: whats up
[07:28] <Mithrandir> seb128: yeah, sorry I haven't fixed it.  I'll look at it on my flight in about 30 minutes.
[07:28] <Amaranth> hey, what's this notification thing i got after booting with 2.6.12?
[07:28] <seb128> Mithrandir: k, thanks. If you don't have time to fix maybe you could consider changing back pkg-config time to figure what's wrong?
[07:29] <ogra> tseng|work, trulux was looking for sponsors in the CC meeting, i thought you could say something about his work... but its over now
[07:29] <Mithrandir> seb128: yeah, but I'm rather going to fix it the right way around. :)
[07:29] <mxpxpod> Kamion: hmm, --force-confdef didn't prompt me
[07:29] <seb128> cool
[07:30] <Kamion> mxpxpod: "force dpkg to accept defaults" - so no, it won't
[07:32] <mxpxpod> Kamion: do I have to have a debconf option set for it to say "There's a different config file... what would you like to do?"
[07:32] <Kamion> dpkg does not use debconf
[07:32] <Kamion> I don't believe you can force it to give you the conflict resolution dialog for every file (even if there's no conflict)
[07:33] <mxpxpod> hmm
[07:33] <Kamion> but the --force-conf* options are usually sufficient to fix up problems
[07:33] <mxpxpod> well, hotplug takes forever to start up during boot, and on my brother's i386 machine it flies
[07:34] <Kamion> --force-confnew is probably the biggest hammer
[07:35] <mxpxpod> will it save files that conflict with the .dpkg-old extension?
[07:35] <Kamion> I'd have to check the source. I believe so, but take a backup if you're worried
[07:36] <seb128> elmo: glabels sync please
[07:38] <elmo> seb128: done
[07:38] <seb128> thanks
[07:54] <Mirv> regarding the yesterday's breezy kickoff, was there any discussion about input methods for various languages?
[07:54] <jbailey> Mirv: Nope.
[07:54] <jbailey> Basically the bofs from UDU were split into high, medium, and low priority.
[07:54] <Mirv> jbailey: are there any ubuntu people looking into eg. freedesktop's scim/uim etc.?
[07:54] <jbailey> Mirv: We got through the high and medium priorities.
[07:54] <Mirv> jbailey: ok
[07:55] <jbailey> Mirv: Your best bet is to do a search of udu.wiki.ubuntu.com
[07:55] <jbailey> Mirv: If you can find a spec there, there's probably some people interested in it.
[07:56] <jbailey> Mirv: If not, you can try creating a spec, but it may be hard to get resources for it for breezy - the amount that everyone is trying to get done for Breezy is a bit staggering. =)
[07:56] <Mirv> jbailey: will do, would be logical to be on ubuntu's "in all languages" roadmap
[07:56] <mxpxpod> hrmmm
[07:56] <mxpxpod> strange.... hotplug still takes forever to start up
[07:56] <Kamion> mxpxpod: do you have grepmap installed?
[07:57] <Mirv> jbailey: yes, I gather :) will have to see about it, my employer is also interested in these things and I might even have work time devoted to ubuntu at some point
[07:57] <mxpxpod> Kamion: no
[07:57] <Kamion> mxpxpod: rectify that. :-)
[07:57] <wasabi_> jbailey, does Java have a schedule other than "as soon as wasabi does it?"
[07:57] <mxpxpod> Kamion: I'm guessing that will help?
[07:58] <jbailey> wasabi_: What we talked about in the bof was that it needed to wait until the C++ transition was done so that all of gcj/gij lined up right.
[07:58] <wasabi_> k
[07:58] <Kamion> mxpxpod: grepmap's purpose in life is to speed up hotplug
[07:58] <mxpxpod> oooh
[07:58] <wasabi_> I'm cool with that. I'm barely moving on it... but trying to push the important things into Debian.
[07:58] <jbailey> wasabi_: Are you aiming for Sarge?
[07:58] <wasabi_> Ha.
[07:58] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ooooooh!! much better!!
[07:58] <jbailey> wasabi_: Okay.  I was beginning to think that you were nuts. =)
[07:58] <wasabi_> I could care less about sarge at this point.
[07:59] <wasabi_> couldn't?
[07:59] <Kamion> mxpxpod: good good. it should've been installed by default, unless you were upgrading from very old pre-warty ...
[07:59] <mxpxpod> Kamion: that's what I did
[07:59] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ubuntu-desktop should depend on it, though
[07:59] <Kamion> "couldn't care less", ignoring the Americanism :-)
[07:59] <wasabi_> jbailey, I posted a patch to debian-java for java-common for the wrapper script jvm selection idea.
[07:59] <wasabi_> So we'll benefit from that automatically.
[07:59] <Kamion> mxpxpod: ubuntu-base depends on it
[08:00] <Kamion> ubuntu-minimal in breezy
[08:00] <mxpxpod> whoa
[08:00] <mxpxpod> what's evms, ethtool, and lvm?
[08:00] <jbailey> wasabi_: Nice.
[08:00] <wasabi_> evms and lvm are godly. that's all i know.
[08:00] <jbailey> wasabi_: Andres did some amazing magic on cdbs2 through udu.
[08:00] <jbailey> wasabi_: It might be interesting to take a detour and make sure that it's up to speed for the Java stuff.
[08:01] <Kamion> evms/lvm => advanced/less-advanced logical volume management stuff. ethtool => figure out whether network interfaces are active.
[08:01] <wasabi_> I haven't even looked at it.
[08:01] <mxpxpod> ah, ok
[08:01] <mxpxpod> thanks Kamion
[08:01] <wasabi_> lvm isn't exactly less advanced than evms. ;)
[08:01] <wasabi_> In fact, the best use of both is together. ;)
[08:01] <jbailey> wasabi_: Right, I'm just thinking of a way to lower packaging costs.
[08:01] <Kamion> wasabi_: mm, couldn't think of a better way to describe the distinction :)
[08:02] <Kamion> evms is the mad weird shit. :-)
[08:02] <jbailey> Mirv: That's cool if you can devote paid time.  My last job was like that, where I was allowed to work on Debian.
[08:02] <wasabi_> Actually I think evms built in stuff is sucky.
[08:02] <Kamion> at least if you look at evmsgui ...
[08:02] <wasabi_> But using the EVMS object model to admin md + LVM is unbelievable.
[08:02] <wasabi_> The gui needs work.
[08:02] <jbailey> Kamion: I was loving evmsgui up until the moment it ate my partition table.  ah well.
[08:02] <wasabi_> But, it's really slick.
[08:02] <Lathiat> jbailey: heheh
[08:02] <Kamion> the GUI is incomprehensible :)
[08:02] <mxpxpod> which package sets up /etc/network/interfaces?
[08:03] <Kamion> mxpxpod: netcfg does it in the installer
[08:03] <jbailey> Kamion: With the gui I setup my first lvm volumes.  I hadn't managed to work my way through d-i enough to do it.
[08:03] <mxpxpod> Kamion: ah, ok
[08:04] <mxpxpod> alright, thanks for the help! gotta get back to work
[09:10] <jbailey> sladen: You 'dere?
[09:16] <sladen> jbailey: I'm here
[09:18] <jbailey> sladen: Hey - was just looking over the intergrated Lights Out (iLO) stuff for HP Proliant servers, and wondering how bootsplash would wind up interacting with it.
[09:18] <jbailey> sladen: I know that youtalked about serial console, but I don't know if iLO came up at all.
[09:18] <dilinger> i'm curious how the iLO stuff works
[09:20] <sladen> jbailey:
[09:20] <jbailey> dilinger:
[09:20] <jbailey> bah
[09:20] <sladen> dilinger: video card with a network port on it
[09:20] <Treenaks> what is iLO
[09:20] <jbailey> dilinger: I can probably get access to a system with iLO for testing when I'm back home.
[09:20] <Treenaks> ah ok
[09:21] <sladen> jbailey: I have them in some of my boxes as a last resort reboot.  They also allow access to the BIOS
[09:21] <dilinger> sladen: so it contains an onboard tcp stack and some type of daemon that you connect to and get something like serial output?
[09:22] <sladen> dilinger: yup, it's a telnet interface
[09:22] <sladen> expose of utter lack of security here: http://www.paul.sladen.org/lights-out/riloe.html
[09:23] <sladen> jbailey: mmm.  really for anyone using serial BIOS / lights-out you want to come up in a text-mode
[09:24] <dholbach> jdub: ping
[09:24] <sladen> jbailey: otherwise it has to start spitting bitmaps back if the card goes into a graphics mode (and they don't work too well in that mode)
[09:24] <mdz> fabbione: <IP_ADDRESS>-1.1 works on my laptop
[09:24] <jbailey> sladen: Right.  I'm guessing that you can probably detect a serial port in use.  I was curious if you could detect iLO in use.
[09:25] <sladen> jbailey: nope.  It's a "normal" PCI video card
[09:26] <jbailey> Ugh
[09:26] <sladen> jbailey: I did ping bdale a couple of years ago about whether there might be specs around.  His reason seemed to be that HP designed their own stuff but Compaq outsourced everything so that chances of tracking stuff down was slim
[09:27] <sladen> jbailey: in fact, even has a S3 Virge chip on it
[09:28] <sladen> it would be good to handle serial-bios installations out-of-the-box.
[09:28] <jbailey> Probably no way to detect it at that point, though.
[09:28] <sladen> they tend to run with a serial-redirect up until the point the OS gets loaded and then you have to pass grub/kernel the normal console= magic if you want to see anything after that point
[09:29] <jbailey> Ah?  Hmm
[09:29] <sladen> jbailey: I'd suggest just not enabling it on server installs.
[09:29] <luis_> seb128: ?
[09:30] <seb128> luis_: what?
[09:30] <sladen> jbailey: graphic foo, that is.  The domain of those wanting iLO/serial and the domain of those not wanting X installed probably overlap fairly well
[09:30] <luis_> seb128: no README.debian in /usr/share/doc/sabayon/
[09:31] <seb128> arg
[09:31] <jbailey> sladen: I'm not convinced of that overlap from talking to the NT admins I know who are scared of moving to a text based system.
[09:32] <wasabi_> i heard NT!
[09:32] <sladen> jbailey: oh.  great, MSCE compatibility mode
[09:33] <dilinger> sladen: neat.  my sunfire 280 has some modem stuff on it that's supposed to allow you to dial up into the machine when it's powered off, but i've never played w/ it
[09:33] <dilinger> batteries on the card, too
[09:33] <wasabi_> my dell's have those too.
[09:33] <wasabi_> pretty nifty
[09:33] <sladen> dilinger: LOM.
[09:33] <jbailey> sladen: No, these are generally companies that are too cheap to hire an MCSE and insist on just maintaining their systems themselves, since it's almost (but not quite) easy enough.
[09:34] <sladen> wasabi_: the dell offerings pale in comparision to the real Sun LOM+PROM
[09:34] <dilinger> yep
[09:34] <jbailey> sladen: The upshot to that is that as an IT consultant I generally made alot of money off of those clients. =)
[09:34] <jbailey> sladen: Amazing just how badly they can screw up a system...
[09:35] <sladen> jbailey: I charge people 3x if I find they used 'su' or 'sudo su' at any point
[09:35] <jbailey> sladen: Part of my dream is for SELinux/LDAP systems where a user can have the rights to create and delete user accounts and touch nothing else.  But we'd be bankrupting IT consultants all over the world at the same time. =)
[09:35] <dilinger> hah
[09:35] <Treenaks> jbailey: your point being? :)
[09:35] <dilinger> java?
[09:35] <dilinger> they use java?
[09:35] <wasabi_> jbailey, what's special about that?
[09:36] <jbailey> Treenaks: Our biggest supporters will not be the ones who will find themselves out of work after implementing Linux. =)
[09:37] <jbailey> Treenaks: We shouldn't go out of our way to cripple systems, but it's something I generally have in mind.
[09:38] <jbailey> Treenaks: I know a couple consultants who resist implenting Linux for that reason.  It's only now where customers are demanding it that they're putting the systems in.
[09:38] <jbailey> Treenaks: Windows on the desktop tends to keep them in business though.
[09:38] <Kamion> sladen: I'm hesitant to have server installs diverge from normal ones beyond purely package selection
[09:39] <wasabi_> I find that windows tco on the server is actually lower for me. =)
[09:39] <Kamion> sladen: we could avoid installing the usplash package on server installations, though
[09:39] <Kamion> sladen: (although it's fiddly)
[09:40] <jbailey> Kamion: If you're disabling bootsplash, X should really not start either.  It's the same problem in both cases.
[09:40] <dilinger> jbailey: what?!  how are you supposed to admin a server w/out point and click?
[09:40] <dilinger> :)
[09:40] <wasabi_> WIth remote point + click.
[09:40] <wasabi_> =)
[09:41] <Kamion> jbailey: actually, maybe it's not so fiddly, we probably don't want usplash there on first boot - so just put it in desktop
[09:41] <sladen> wasabi_: if you're finding TCO cheaper elsewhere, that sounds like a bug!  What can we do to solve that situation?  :-)
[09:41] <wasabi_> sladen, exactly my viewpoint.
[09:42] <sladen> Kamion: rememeber this all gets a pain to do with initrd and shipping pre-built ones
[09:42] <wasabi_> Ubuntu is really knocking down the things I've found time consuming about linux one after another though.
[09:42] <Kamion> sladen: meh
[09:42] <wasabi_> sladen, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DomainAuthenticationUtility
[09:43] <Kamion> sladen: I am going to have SCREAMING NIGHTMARES if server initrd != normal initrd. I think usplash will have to be able to disable itself in some circumstances.
[09:43] <sladen> wasabi_: what's next on the hit list and is it on ...  groovy, excellent
[09:43] <Kamion> can it just look for the 'splash' boot option?
[09:43] <dilinger> Kamion: hopefully they'll be initramfs's ;)
[09:43] <Kamion> dilinger: even so :)
[09:44] <jbailey> Kamion: The idea is a modular initrd.  usplash should just lie down on one of the hooks.
[09:44] <jbailey> Kamion: It's not crazier than if evms/lvm/busybox gets tossed in.
[09:44] <wasabi_> I am really fond of launchd (i realize the license stuff, what I mean is I like the design)
[09:44] <sladen> Kamion: kernel commandline is the approach I'm most happy with
[09:45] <sladen> jbailey: how much work would it be to get grub loading the concatrenated cpio's for initramfs?
[09:45] <jbailey> Kamion: If it's part of ubuntu-desktop, it just wouldn't get installed on a server setting.  Add desktop later, and next initrd assembly would include it.
[09:46] <jbailey> sladen: dilinger guessed less than an hour's work, but the degenerate case still needs to be supported for people running other grubs, (dual boot), or non-ia32
[09:48] <Kamion> jbailey: that would imply regenerating the initrd at the end of the desktop install
[09:48] <jbailey> Kamion: For it to be deterministic, yeah.
[09:48] <jbailey> Kamion: Otherwise the behaviour would randomly change with the next kernel update.
[09:49] <jbailey> Hmm. or.
[09:49] <Kamion> needs to be in its final state at the end of the installation
[09:49] <jbailey> I phear the idea of 'reassemble the currently running initrd'
[09:49] <jbailey> Well, I was thinking that if a script existed that just said 'reassemble the initrd', usplash could call it in postinst.
[09:50] <jbailey> And anything touching the initrd could do that.
[09:50] <sladen> jb	that would be soo, soo, soo, good
[09:52] <jbailey> sladen: Except the idea of breaking the currently bootable system.
[09:52] <sladen> er yes.
[09:52] <sladen> this is where the idea of system-wide rollback would be really good
[09:53] <stockh0lm> elmo: ?
[09:53] <jbailey> Hard to do if 6 things touch the initrd in an upgrade cycle.
[09:53] <jbailey> Or do you just mean a general known working snapshot?
[09:54] <sladen> jbailey: I quite fancy the idea of always keeping about a 'rescue' kernel and initrd
[09:55] <sladen> jbailey: and that's the initrd that should probably include busybox et al
[09:55] <dholbach> good night everyone
[09:55] <Nafallo> dholbach: night :-)
[09:56] <sladen> jbailey: and roll any future 'rescue' mode functionality from the livecd into that initrd so that the user has a sort of abstracted recovery console that can cope with any situation except a toasted MBR
[09:57] <jbailey> Hmm, I also wonder if there's a way of reasonably looking for a rescue keyword and having some things that go into initramfs saying clearly 'don't run me in rescue mode'.  usplash seems a likely candidate there.
[09:57] <jbailey> I'm not sure there are enough others to be worth it.
[09:57] <Kamion> sladen: difficult to manage
[09:57] <Kamion> (automatically)
[09:57] <jbailey> There just shouldn't be that much fluff in the initramfs where you wouldn't just want to break to a console as soon as you can and do it by hand.
[09:58] <Kamion> it's so much better when the installer sets the whole thing up and then you don't have to touch it until an upgrade
[09:59] <sladen> jbailey: there's the 'alternate' and 'normal' boot lines in the grub/menu.lst.  splash and the console=XXX will only be in the 'normal' line and not in the alternate/recovery one
[09:59] <sladen> jbailey: haven't looked at the yaboot case
[10:04] <sladen> NeedAPowerPC
[10:06] <Kamion> we don't set up a recovery option for yaboot at the moment, and its UI makes it kind of unpleasant to do so
[10:18] <ozamosi> How do I contact persons who are involved in projects decidet at UDU?
[10:18] <Amaranth> ozamosi: They should be listed as a first or second on the spec, go to their pages on the wiki
[10:19] <sladen> ozamosi: typ e their name followed by a colon ';:' ;-)
[10:20] <ozamosi> Amaranth, um.. yes. But what if there are no emails or anything?
[10:20] <Amaranth> Then someone didn't do their job...
[10:21] <Amaranth> Who are you looking for?
[10:21] <ozamosi> Colin Applegate
[10:21] <ozamosi> or really anybody involved in the lightdesktop-project
[10:23] <Amaranth> GetRidOfTheDesktop? :)
[10:23] <jammcq> ozamosi: do you mean the Thin client stuff?
[10:24] <ozamosi> No, the lightweight-desktop
[10:25] <Amaranth> would anyone get mad if i started to file bug reports on apps whose dialogs don't center on parent? :)
[10:28] <ozamosi> whoever made that beagle-package should make it depend on mono...
[10:31] <luis_> ozamosi: poke tseng
[10:31] <mdz> Riddell: ping
[10:31] <Riddell> mdz: hi
[10:35] <Nafallo> zul: ping?
[10:37] <zul> Nafallo: ping
[10:37] <zul> doh..pong
[10:38] <Nafallo> zul: heh :-)
[10:38] <Nafallo> zul: it's rt2500 and rt2400 now? :-)
[10:38] <zul> yep
[10:38] <zul> from cvs
[10:38] <Nafallo> zul: damn! I just install the kernel-headers ;-). thanx anyway, and... I love ya! :-D
[10:38] <zul> thanks
[10:39] <lewiz> Can anybody tell me what version of inotify the kernel in breezy uses?
[10:39] <zul> 0.23
[10:39] <lewiz> Great.
[10:40] <Nafallo> zul: time for reboot then... see you soon hopefully :-).
[10:51] <Nafallo> yay! I don't need to compile drivers anymore :-)
[10:51] <zul> cool
[10:51] <Nafallo> zul: swsusp error in the beginning though.
[10:52] <zul> its a 2.6.12rc4 kernel
[10:52] <Nafallo> zul: I'm not supposed to have resume= on the kernel command line?
[10:55] <Nafallo> ahh, oki
[11:14] <zul> Nafallo: not sure i dont have a laptop
[11:17] <Nafallo> zul: oki. jbailey's stuff, right? :-)
[11:41] <kent> Nafallo, how are things in Breezy-world?  :)
[11:42] <jbailey> Nafallo: What's that?
[11:44] <Nafallo> jbailey: shall I remove resume= from my kernel command lines? running breezy now.
[11:45] <Nafallo> kent: unbelievable :-)
[11:45] <Nafallo> kent: firefox has better font and the new kernel has my wlan driver :-).
[11:46] <Nafallo> jbailey: I get an error about swsusp while booting. I don't hibernate often ;-).
[11:46] <kent> Nafallo, did you run into any problems while upgrading?
[11:47] <Nafallo> kent: nope, not that I can remember. i.e. if their were, they were really small ;)
[11:49] <ajmitch_> hi all
[11:51] <pitti> Hey ajmitch_


[06:26] <Squirm> Morning
[07:17] <nuvolari> o/ oh hi
[07:17]  * nuvolari prods Squirm
[07:21] <inetpro> good mornings
[07:23]  * Squirm prods nuvolari
[07:23] <Squirm> nuvolari: long time :D
[07:23] <Squirm> Hey inetpro
[09:09] <skokkk> Hello, does someone here by any chance work for a WISP?
[11:47] <Kilos> hmm...
[11:47] <Kilos> afternoon everyone
[15:33] <Symmetria> *sigh*
[15:33] <Symmetria> man what a day
[15:34] <Symmetria> one of my fairly newly promoted managers got to see first hand today the harder side of management, when you have to deal harshly and decisively with someone, and the poor guy said to me afterwards, that was ruthless and left me feeling a little sick, I said, you gotta learn to divorce emotion and do whats necessary, thats business
[16:41] <superfly> .
[18:06] <inetpro> ..
[18:11] <Kilos> evening everyone
[18:13] <Kilos> had to get data, and with new sim in old modem i had to first remove nm settings for it with old sim then start again
[18:15]  * inetpro looking for a good beginner's guide for Ubuntu
[18:15] <inetpro> need to send to someone who wants to explore Ubuntu with the idea to move away from Windows
[18:16] <inetpro> where do people start when wanting to switch to Ubuntu?
[18:22] <Kilos> oh my
[18:23] <Kilos> wasnt there a link we used with the other guy from the cape
[18:23] <Kilos> best beginners guide is connect to here first off and we help
[18:24] <inetpro> Kilos: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[18:24] <inetpro> thanks pleia2
[18:24] <inetpro> I mean thanks to her
[18:25] <Kilos> lol
[18:25] <Kilos> i dont think i need that anymore
[18:25] <Kilos> i had friends that helped me
[18:26] <Kilos> one even tried to get me to use kde before the nm worked properly
[19:34] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:34] <Kilos> inetpro ty for the book link