[00:01] <Noldorin> hi lifeless
[00:14] <lifeless> Noldorin: hi there
[00:37] <Noldorin> lifeless, just had a though about the namespace issue...
[00:37] <Noldorin> might be worth considering
[00:56] <Noldorin> lifeless, ping
[01:00] <lifeless> Noldorin: I'm here
[01:00] <lifeless> Noldorin: waiting for you to describe your though
[01:00] <Noldorin> lifeless, okay :-P
[01:01] <Noldorin> lifeless, so what about having user/team-based namespaces, but the global namespace underlying that... the global namespace could have unique aliases that go to the team/user project names
[01:01] <Noldorin> which may or may not be the same according to availability
[01:02] <lifeless> I'm not sure I follow
[01:02] <Noldorin> ...
[01:02] <Noldorin> ok
[01:03] <StevenK> If I understand correctly, he wants a namespace that is contained to within a team or user, and the global namespace links to those.
[01:03] <Noldorin> yep
[01:03] <Noldorin> just aliases
[01:03] <StevenK> However, we have seven years of global namespace use ...
[01:04] <Noldorin> so that you can maintain the benefits of a global namespace and user-based namespaces ;-)
[01:04] <Noldorin> StevenK, length of time of usage doesn't make it good ;-)
[01:04] <Noldorin> although lifeless claimed global namespaces have one or two advantages, and i agreed
[01:04] <Noldorin> just about
[01:04] <StevenK> Noldorin: Certainly not, and I'm not implying that. I'm just saying that it is fairly well entrenched.
[01:04] <Noldorin> that is true
[01:05] <lifeless> Noldorin: so if the global namespace is just aliases to specific team+project|distro pairs
[01:05] <Noldorin> StevenK, but this certainly allows a better transition than a switch simly to github-style project namespaces
[01:05] <lifeless> Noldorin: that implies we'd still need controls around alias setting
[01:05] <Noldorin> lifeless, yes. the same controls that already exist basically
[01:05] <lifeless> Noldorin: but could allow free-for-all within a user/team
[01:05] <lifeless> context
[01:05] <Noldorin> i'm suggesting this because i know you like your global namespaces
[01:05] <Noldorin> lifeless, yes indeed
[01:05] <Noldorin> that's the idea
[01:05] <lifeless> so, this might be a good way to tackle a migration
[01:06] <Noldorin> yeah. better backwards compatibility eh?
[01:06] <lifeless> it is contingent on .. ELOCAL< back soon
[01:06] <Noldorin> ELOCAL?
[01:06] <StevenK> It's a UNIX thing -- EPERM == Permission denied
[01:06] <StevenK> ELOCAL == Local problem or so
[01:07] <Noldorin> ah ok
[01:07] <Noldorin> so  ELOCAL< back soon mean?
[01:07] <StevenK> "I have a local problem that I need to deal with, back soon" ?
[01:08] <Noldorin> haha okay
[01:08] <Noldorin> StevenK, sorry, i'm completely unfamiliar with unix geek-lingo :-)
[01:11] <StevenK> Noldorin: It wasn't helped that lifeless typoed ',' as '<'
[01:11] <lifeless> right, back
[01:11] <StevenK> But , and < share a key
[01:11] <Noldorin> heh yeah
[01:11] <Noldorin> so they do
[01:11] <Noldorin> lifeless, hi
[01:11] <lifeless> so, one of the things you can do with a global project|distro namespace + team namespace is treat them as two-dimensional coordinates
[01:11] <lifeless> that is
[01:12] <lifeless> '~lifeless' + ubuntu == lifelesses things to do with Ubuntu
[01:12] <lifeless> for that to work, you need the concept of ubuntu to be consistent across all such tuples
[01:13] <lifeless> e.g. ~ubuntu-council + ubuntu must refer to the same ubuntu.
[01:13] <lifeless> This is in tension with a hierarchical namespace where ~ubuntu-council/ubuntu could be totally different to ~lifeless/ubuntu
[01:14] <Noldorin> not sure i get you
[01:14] <lifeless> Strictly speaking we could do ~lifeless+~ubuntu-council/ubuntu, to implement this on top of a hierarchical namespace
[01:14] <lifeless> but I suspect that would confuse users
[01:15] <lifeless> Noldorin: say you want to find our about your bugs in ubuntu, how do you do that?
[01:15] <Noldorin> lifeless, the same way as i do now. why would it be different?
[01:15] <lifeless> well, today you can't
[01:16] <Noldorin> oh really?
[01:16] <Noldorin> heh
[01:16] <lifeless> you can search for your related bugs - returns everything, or you can search in Ubuntu for bugs with a specific rule like assigned-to-you
[01:16] <Noldorin> fair enough
[01:16] <Noldorin> sounds like an orthogonal feature to me though
[01:16] <lifeless> but there isn't a way to combine these two primitives
[01:16] <Noldorin> could work equally well on top of the old or new namespace system
[01:17] <lifeless> in terms of computer code, certainly. In terms of UI, I'm not so sure
[01:17] <lifeless>  /~ubuntu-council/ubuntu/~lifeless
[01:17] <lifeless> ^ what would that really mean?
[01:17] <Noldorin> that would be invalid syntax to me
[01:17] <Noldorin> under what i'm proposing, at least
[01:17] <lifeless> in which case, you're proposing this other feature not be implementable :)
[01:17] <Noldorin> perhaps you envisage my suggested changes as more radical than they in fact are
[01:18] <lifeless> Noldorin: I don't think they are radical
[01:18] <Noldorin> good
[01:18] <Noldorin> :-)
[01:18] <lifeless> Noldorin: but they have consequences
[01:19] <lifeless> such as changing the potential hierarchy from intersection-of-interests to control-of-components
[01:19] <lifeless> (and diluting the concept of 'project|distro identity')
[01:19] <lifeless> there are some good social arguments around identity being a claimed/earnt thing rather than an imposed thing
[01:20] <lifeless> 'centre of gravity'
[01:20] <lifeless> etc
[01:20] <Noldorin> lifeless, so just to be clear, give me an example of a current structure/feature that would break in a potentially bad way under my proposed system
[01:20] <lifeless> the one I gave before
[01:20] <lifeless> my bugs in the context of ubuntu, where ubuntu has been redefined as ~ubuntu-council/ubuntu
[01:20] <Noldorin> can that be done presently though?
[01:21] <Noldorin> sorry if i'm just ignorant about Launchpad features
[01:21] <lifeless> It is an open opportunity today
[01:21] <Noldorin> there's some i inevitably don't use
[01:21] <lifeless> its not implemented
[01:21] <Noldorin> okay
[01:22] <lifeless> I'm exploring the consequences of your suggestion
[01:22] <lifeless> one of them is that this other thing would be a lot harder
[01:22] <Noldorin> lifeless, so your argument is that if you implement mine in the future, ~ubuntu-council/ubuntu/~lifeless would appear confusing, eh?
[01:22] <Noldorin> (e.g.)
[01:22] <lifeless> right
[01:22] <Noldorin> hmm
[01:22] <lifeless> and in fact branches work this way today
[01:23] <lifeless> branches are ~$USER/$PROJECT/$BRANCHNAME
[01:23] <lifeless> so if you redefine project as being defined by a user
[01:23] <Noldorin> lifeless, unless it's associated with a series, in which case it's $project/$branchname, no?
[01:23] <Noldorin> or at least aliased to such
[01:23] <lifeless> ~lifeless/ubuntu/foo would become something like ~lifeless/~ubuntu-council/ubuntu/foo
[01:23] <lifeless> indeed, the series provides an alias
[01:24] <Noldorin> hmm
[01:24] <Noldorin> okay, i see your point
[01:24] <Noldorin> lifeless, this is a fairly high priority feature you guys want to implement then, i take it?
[01:24] <lifeless> well, branches already work this way
[01:24] <Noldorin> so it would make sense for bugs to as well, yeah...
[01:25] <StevenK> It would? Branches look like nothing else inside LP. :-(
[01:25] <lifeless> you can argue that we have been inconsistent about how different primitives interact
[01:25] <lifeless> and I'd accept that
[01:25] <lifeless> but I feel that adding inconsistency when there is a clear conflict would be unwise; we'd need to have *some* way forward to resolve the inconsistency
[01:26] <Noldorin> lifeless, so it really boils down to the URL syntax, in some respects. perhaps something like ~lifeless
[01:26] <lifeless> the overall goal being to decrease the amount of special-casing needed to learn how LP works.
[01:26] <Noldorin> err one sec:
[01:27] <Noldorin> ~ubuntu-council/ubuntu/#~lifeless
[01:27] <Noldorin> or even query strings
[01:27] <Noldorin> yes i concur with that general aim
[01:28] <Noldorin> i thing the problem is with this proposal for the URL syntax for a user's bugs in a certain project
[01:28] <Noldorin> lifeless,  the url would be slightly confusing even under the current project namespace system
[01:28] <Noldorin> (i.e. global namespaces)
[01:28] <Noldorin> maybe not as much, but there would be semantic inconsistencies
[01:28] <Noldorin> for sure
[01:28] <Noldorin> or ambiguity
[01:28] <lifeless> indeed
[01:29] <lifeless> it could mean 'my bugs' like it means 'my branches' or it could mean 'things I'm interested in' without implying ownership
[01:29] <lifeless> or $other
[01:29] <Noldorin> so i think we need to sacrifice URL terseness by making the semantics clearer...
[01:29] <Noldorin> if at the expense of length/verbosity, then so be it
[01:29] <Noldorin> that's my proposal
[01:30] <Noldorin> (ideally not query strings, but you get the idea i think...)
[01:33] <Noldorin> lifeless, does that sound reasonable?
[01:39] <wgrant> cjohnston: The API method we discussed yesterday is on production now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1012430/
[01:41] <mhall119> cjohnston: sup?
[01:41] <cjohnston> mhall119: < wgrant> cjohnston: The API method we discussed yesterday is on production now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1012430/
[01:42] <mhall119> yeah, we need a service that does the opposite, takes a launchpad nickname and returns an openid
[01:42] <wgrant> mhall119: That doesn't make sense.
[01:42] <wgrant> mhall119: That's not a 1-1 mapping.
[01:42] <mhall119> I know
[01:42] <wgrant> mhall119: The intent is that you call this on login.
[01:42] <wgrant> So you get the identifier from SSO, and then ask LP who it is.
[01:42] <mhall119> we have username on login (most of the time)
[01:42] <mhall119> from openid
[01:43] <wgrant> Then why do you need the other direction?
[01:43] <mhall119> our problem is when we create users from our Blueprints and Attendees import, and we need to associate them with an openid so they can log in
[01:43] <wgrant> Why not associate them with a username so they can log in?
[01:44] <mhall119> we have username, we don't have openid
[01:44] <mhall119> we can't let them login with an unknown openid using an existing username, because it's not secure
[01:45] <mhall119> I talked to pindonga earlier about adding an API to SSO to give us the info we need, but it'll be a matter of allocating the resouces on that team to get it implemented
[01:45] <wgrant> SSO doesn't have the info you need.
[01:45] <mhall119> what is it missing?
[01:46] <wgrant> What do you need?
[01:46] <mhall119> a list of all openids associated with a given Launchpad nickname
[01:46] <lifeless> Noldorin: I'm not sure its sufficient to avoid the user confusion I referenced
[01:46] <wgrant> SSO can't reasonably give you that.
[01:46] <mhall119> why not?
[01:46] <wgrant> LP could, but it's still really going the wrong way.
[01:46] <wgrant> Because SSO doesn't really know about Launchpad nicknames, except for deprecated legacy reasons.
[01:47] <mhall119> LP only has one openid per profile, doesn't it?
[01:47] <wgrant> No
[01:47] <wgrant> That's precisely the problem.
[01:47] <mhall119> wgrant: well it returns launchpad nicknames as part of the OpenID response
[01:47] <wgrant> mhall119: Right, deprecated legacy reasons.
[01:48] <mhall119> is that really a deprecated use case?
[01:48] <lifeless> mhall119: yes
[01:48] <Noldorin> lifeless, why not? i think you can make it arbitrarily clear/verbose...
[01:48] <mhall119> so at some point SSO won't be able to give us sreg.username?
[01:48] <wgrant> mhall119: Right.
[01:48] <Noldorin> URLs can only convey so much information
[01:48] <lifeless> Noldorin: verbosity doesn't intrinsically increase usability
[01:48] <wgrant> mhall119: Unless it grows its own definition of username.
[01:48] <lifeless> Noldorin: sorry, while this is fascinating, I need to context switch now
[01:48] <Noldorin> lifeless, it decreases ambiguity/confusion if done right, as is the case here :-P
[01:49] <Noldorin> lifeless, okay. something to mull over anyway
[01:49] <Noldorin> catch you later
[01:49] <lifeless> ciao
[01:49] <Noldorin> only other thing i was going to ask about is how the launchpad wiki effort is going, but that can wait ;-)
[01:49] <Noldorin> yeah, bye
[01:49] <lifeless> mhall119: both the SSO developers and LP devs would like to untangle things
[01:49] <wgrant> mhall119: Currently SSO pretends to be separate from LP. They want to be completely separate.
[01:49] <lifeless> mhall119: the SSO split which carried the username across made a mistake in doing that
[01:50] <wgrant> mhall119: But returning LP-specific data is mutually exclusive with that goal.
[01:50] <wgrant> mhall119: And rather confusing.
[01:50] <lifeless> mhall119: what we now believe is that the LP username and group information should have not been offered via Ubuntu SSO
[01:51] <mhall119> so....we will still need a way to create a user from the Launchpad profile prior to that person logging in via SSO, but we'll need to know ahead of time the allowed SSO ids for that user
[01:51] <lifeless> mhall119: because it adds confusion when you consider e.g. browserid, alternative openid providers like facebook and google
[01:51] <lifeless> mhall119: SSO doesn't *have* ids
[01:51] <wgrant> SSO has an OpenID identifier.
[01:51] <wgrant> That's all
[01:51] <mhall119> it does, from my understanding
[01:51] <lifeless> mhall119: thats rather the point; it just has openid urls
[01:51] <mhall119> right, identifyer == id
[01:52] <lifeless> mhall119: this is for summit right? why do you need to know the openid urls a priori?
[01:52] <lifeless> mhall119: why can't you do this:
[01:52] <mhall119> summit, ltp, probably others
[01:52] <lifeless>  - allow anyone to sign in via SSO
[01:52] <lifeless>  - after they *authenticate* do group mapping via the LP API
[01:52] <lifeless> if they aren't in any groups you recognise, show them a 'you need to sign up <list of relevant LP groups>'
[01:53] <mhall119> we need to map a logged in user to a blueprint subscription
[01:53] <mhall119> for Summit
[01:53] <lifeless> yes
[01:53] <lifeless> I believe what I describe will do that perfectly.
[01:53] <lifeless> Clearly that knowledge isn't getting through the narrow pipe that is IRC:)
[01:53] <wgrant> There is the user rename issue. There's no way to avoid that entirely.
[01:53] <wgrant> Even now it could race if someone does it at a bad time.
[01:54] <mhall119> ok, I think I understand now what you mean
[01:54] <mhall119> so on their first login, when we have *only* an openid url, we use that to lookup the username to give them?
[01:54] <lifeless> mhall119: on every login
[01:54] <mhall119> right, ok
[01:55] <wgrant> The idea is that your internal key is username, not OpenID identifier.
[01:55] <mhall119> unfortunately that would require changes to django-openid-auth that would be specific to Launchpad
[01:55] <lifeless> mhall119: you need to have a mapping of openidurl -> username
[01:55] <mhall119> lifeless: yes, django-openid-auth does that
[01:55] <lifeless> mhall119: and you can have many openidurls->sameusername
[01:55] <mhall119> but it expects username to come from the OpenID SReg response
[01:55] <mhall119> lifeless: yes
[01:55] <lifeless> mhall119: if you then see an existing openidurl -> differentusername
[01:56] <lifeless> you can handle the rename a few ways
[01:56] <lifeless> you can make a new local username and delete the old mapping
[01:56] <lifeless> or you can update the username
[01:56] <mhall119> we already handle renames (coming from SReg response)
[01:56] <lifeless> great
[01:56] <lifeless> then this doesn't need any django-openid-auth changes, you just need an additional plugin to let you do group mapping via the LP API
[01:57] <mhall119> so, here's the first of our problems, the openid identity url we currently get from launchpadlib doesn't match what SSO sends us when they log in
[01:57] <lifeless> the problem there is that you are *getting an openid url from launchpadlib*
[01:57] <lifeless> its what wgrant said way back: thats the wrong way to map
[01:57] <wgrant> mhall119: what lifeless said
[01:57] <wgrant> mhall119: Now, I ensured that the new API accepts either login.launchpad.net or login.ubuntu.com
[01:58] <wgrant> So whichever provider you're using will work.
[01:58] <mhall119> so http://paste.ubuntu.com/1012430/ won't be using the same openid url that launchpadlib is telling us is associated with that nickname?
[01:58] <mhall119> wgrant: the problem wasn't the domain part, it was the ID part
[01:58] <wgrant> mhall119: launchpadlib doesn't expose OpenID identifiers AFAIK
[01:58] <mhall119> the last bit of the URL would be different
[01:58] <mhall119> wgrant: it does
[01:58] <wgrant> The method I added yesterday is the first one.
[01:59] <lifeless> mhall119: when you say 'launchpadlib is telling us is associated with that nickname?' what *exactly* do you mean
[01:59] <mhall119> let me find the code
[01:59] <wgrant> mhall119: Are you sure you're not thinking of scraping from https://launchpad.net/~username?
[01:59] <wgrant> mhall119: AFAIK that's the only place we expose it.
[01:59] <wgrant> In the XRDS delegation stuff on that page.
[02:00] <wgrant> That was only ever designed to be used as an OpenID endpoint -- not for Summit and Gerrit to scrape for other purposes :)
[02:01] <mhall119> wgrant: ah, you are right, it's not from launchpad lib, I thought it was
[02:01] <mhall119> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~summit-hackers/summit/trunk/view/head:/summit/schedule/launchpad.py#L40
[02:01] <mhall119> yeah, looks like it's scraping
[02:01] <mhall119> ok, so we can use your API now instead?
[02:02] <wgrant> Scraping will give you a URL like https://login.launchpad.net/+id/4tLsDY8
[02:02] <wgrant> The new API accepts that, as well as s/launchpad.net/ubuntu.com/
[02:02] <mhall119> hmm, that'll still require some changes to the login auth code
[02:02] <mhall119> since it currently creates a new user with the SReg username, when a matching user doesn't already exist
[02:06] <mhall119> wgrant: making SSO stop providing user and group info is going to break a lot of stuff, not just our django apps, but the drupal and wordpress plugins too
[02:07]  * mhall119 is glad he won't be responsible for fixing those
[02:07] <wgrant> mhall119: Sure, they'll probably have to provide it for years. But we want to stop adding new consumers of it ASAP.
[02:07] <wgrant> So we can actually have some hope of migrating within the decade.
[02:08] <lifeless> well
[02:08] <lifeless> so what will happen is that SSO will start using the LP API itself
[02:08] <wgrant> Right, that too.
[02:08] <lifeless> so we can support it indefinitely
[02:08] <lifeless> anyone doing funkies though, or working with LP, should stop using it immediately, because its single-valued nature leads to the issues you're having
[02:09] <mhall119> maybe it would be better to fork django-openid-auth and make it django-launchpad-auth
[02:09] <lifeless> mhall119: LP doesn't *do* auth :P
[02:10] <lifeless> mhall119: its a separation between identification and authenticaiton
[02:10] <mhall119> no, but we could use login.launchpad.net and then call Launchpad APIs to get username and group info
[02:10] <lifeless> mhall119: making a separate module that doesn't do any of openid, and teach django-openid-auth and it to play nice would be a good beneficial project
[02:10] <mhall119> django auth doesn't separate identity from auth
[02:10] <mhall119> so I'm not sure we'll be able to cleanly separate them
[02:11] <lifeless> mhall119: no, you can't use login.launchpad.net sensibly, in the medium future LP will want to support other openid providers and (perhaps) things like browser.id
[02:11] <lifeless> mhall119: we'll provide a mapping API for any new authentication groups we support
[02:12] <lifeless> mhall119: well, you really want, AIUI, is group mapping for an identity
[02:12] <mhall119> right, and we'll have to support all of those users on Summit and LTP
[02:12] <lifeless> mhall119: you can get your identity from login.ubuntu.com and map groups via LP
[02:12] <lifeless> mhall119: which is my point, your problem isn't in openid's remit, never was.
[02:13] <lifeless> mhall119: so you just need a post-auth step within django to do the group mapping
[02:13] <wgrant> sreg is designed for Simple Registration
[02:13] <mhall119> and username mapping
[02:13] <wgrant> It's not meant to be used for mapping to other services.
[02:13] <lifeless> mhall119: we don't care about usernames
[02:13] <mhall119> we do
[02:13] <lifeless> well
[02:13] <wgrant> OpenID SReg doesn't make much sense here, since you get all your identity information from Launchpad.
[02:13] <lifeless> you'll have that problem with third party openid and browser id too
[02:13] <wgrant> You only care about OpenID for auth.
[02:14] <lifeless> so I still think forking django-openid-auth is a poor idea
[02:14] <mhall119> well we'll have to change it, whether upstream or in a fork
[02:14] <lifeless> indeed
[02:15] <mhall119> an either add launchpad-specific code to it, or add hooks that will let us call external code when creating a new user record in Django
[02:15] <wgrant> mhall119: Sounds like you want to split out django-openid-auth's SReg stuff into a separate module that you can replace
[02:15] <wgrant> If it's not already hookable.
[02:16] <mhall119> it's not, IIRC
[02:16] <lifeless> mhall119: hooks :)
[02:18] <mhall119> fun
[04:32] <windbuntu> nasty bug in brasero in 12.04 ubuntu
[04:33] <StevenK> This is not the place to ask about that.
[08:15] <Daviey> oopstastic, OOPS-fc6e9ba04bf0ad1262968049d512d137
[08:17] <Daviey> status: Doomed
[08:23] <lifeless> Daviey: seems usually pretty well behaved
[08:23] <lifeless> Daviey: 99% under 2.94s - try again ?
[08:25] <Daviey> lifeless: yep, worked now.. but did fail 5 refreshes spread over about 1 minute
[08:25] <lifeless> Daviey: first 2 can be different slaves easily enough
[08:27] <Daviey> right
[08:27] <Daviey> i'd just never seen a timeout when going to +related-software before
[08:32] <lifeless> it runs a slowish query 4 times
[08:32] <lifeless> maybe more on success
[08:32] <lifeless> slow == 285ms
[08:32] <lifeless> Daviey: oh, hah, s I know why it timed out for you :)
[08:33] <lifeless> you, my friend, are the 1%
[08:33] <soren> Daviey: What, really? I've seen that loads of times.
[08:33] <lifeless> Daviey: https://lists.launchpad.net/launchpad-dev/msg09410.html
[08:36] <lifeless> Daviey: this page works well most of the time, so its now capped at 5s
[08:36] <lifeless> Daviey: which means when it doesn't work well, it will oops
[08:37] <soren> Daviey: I can't remember when I've last seen my own related-software page and I dont think I've uploaded that many packages, really. People like cjwatson or doko are far, far worse off.
[08:38] <lifeless> soren: 29 /    3  Person:+related-software
[08:38] <lifeless> time outs per day
[08:39] <soren> "29 out of 3"? :-/
[08:39] <lifeless> no
[08:39] <lifeless> 29 hard, 3 soft
[08:39] <soren> Ah.
[08:39] <lifeless> a soft logs data for us to analyse
[08:39] <lifeless> a hard gets cut off to free resources
[08:39] <soren> Soft timeouts are just logged, hard ones are seen by the requestor?
[08:39] <soren> Gotcha.
[08:39] <lifeless> soren: it gets 6.5K hits per day
[08:40] <lifeless> soren: so 29 timeouts out of 6500
[08:40] <lifeless> or 1 in 200
[08:47] <soren> lifeless: No doubt it works for most people.
[08:50] <lifeless> indeed
[08:50] <lifeless> asymmetric access patterns like this are common in LP
[08:50] <lifeless> it will now be more visible as an issue :)
[08:54] <soren> I sometimes wish there was a special im_willing_to_wait_for_this_for_however_long_it_takes paramater.
[08:55] <soren> Giving yourself incentive to speed things up (a noble goal for sure) is great, but as a user, slow access is often times better than no access at all.
[14:30] <TheLordOfTime> permissions question.  if a person is on bug control for a specific ubuntu package, does that person get access to the private security bugs for said package?
[14:33] <TheLordOfTime> czajkowski: would you happen to know?
[14:33] <czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: just doing something brb
[14:33] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[14:34] <czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: so have you seen http://blog.launchpad.net/general/how-bug-information-types-work-with-privacy
[14:34] <czajkowski> TheLordOfTime: what is the actual issue ?
[14:35] <TheLordOfTime> czajkowski: question posed to a bugcontrol admin (jorge castro) in regards to an individual package, and whether a bug control member for that specific package can see private bugs related to said package.
[14:35] <TheLordOfTime> since jorge didn't know, he suggested i ask here :P
[14:37] <czajkowski> sinzui: could you elaboate more here please?
[14:40] <sinzui> TheLordOfTime,  at this moment, ANY subscribed user/team can see and change the bug
[14:41] <TheLordOfTime> does this include security/private bugs on a package?
[14:41] <TheLordOfTime> i.e. things that are newly reported security bugs against said package get marked as private automatically (from what i've seen thus far)
[14:42] <sinzui> TheLordOfTime, for Ubuntu, only ubuntu-security gets automatic access (via automatic subscription) to embargoed security bugs. Ubuntu has a very specific rule that no other person/team gets automatic access. Lp has a hack to ensure that it does not work like all other projects
[14:43] <TheLordOfTime> thought so, that was the question.  thanks.
[14:43] <czajkowski> sinzui: thanks
[14:46] <czajkowski> sinzui: I know how to make a project private and with that the code and bugs,
[14:46] <czajkowski> to do the inverse unticking the bugs and private and changing the licence?
[14:46] <czajkowski> how do I sort out the code?
[14:48] <sinzui> czajkowski, I do not understand
[14:48] <sinzui> czajkowski, are you saying you want to open the code and bugs?
[14:49] <czajkowski> sinzui: yes
[14:49] <czajkowski> sinzui: am trying to work this out to help arielweil
[14:50] <sinzui> czajkowski, only the project maintainer can change the project license, so nothing happens when you untick private-by-default bugs, and I am not even sure how to make code public.
[14:50] <czajkowski> sinzui: aye we've never done it going the other way
[14:51] <sinzui> czajkowski, with code, first the default-private needs to be removed (can it?).
[14:52] <arielweil> czajkowski, sinzui: the goal is not to lose all of our history, and also to keep the current project name, url, etc.  Ideally everything will be public, and we'll switch a (very) few bugs and branches private to protect customer privacy.
[14:52] <czajkowski> sinzui: never done it before, not seen a request like this
[14:52] <sinzui> czajkowski, changing the default rules does not change existing private bugs and branch...
[14:52] <sinzui> Once the default rules are changed...
[14:53] <sinzui> The project maintainers push the public version of their series branches. They then delete the private versions, then finish by linking the public branches to the series
[14:54] <sinzui> czajkowski, Users cannot change the existing branches, and maybe they do not want to since the branch history might contain information that should not be public
[14:55] <czajkowski> arielweil: this making sense to you for your deadline to make this happen
[14:55] <sinzui> czajkowski, when Lp went public, it was decide that all history was okay to be public, but our profanity might offend the faint of heart, so we pushed up a branch with no bad word.
[14:56] <czajkowski> nods
[14:56]  * czajkowski is in a meeting for the next while  so will come back if needed to this
[14:56] <arielweil> sinzui, czajkowski: so as a maintainer of our project I can take the project, as well as individual branches and bugs public at my discretion.  Anything new I'll have the option of making public/private?
[14:56] <arielweil> sinzui: (since czajkowski's away), is that about right?
[14:57] <sinzui> arielweil, czajkowski a webops can use super powers to make branch public once the "forbidden" rule is removed
[14:58] <sinzui> arielweil, Lp's code management is unusable. no user can change a branch's visibility between public/private
[14:58]  * sinzui will fix this in next month
[14:59] <arielweil> sinzui: ah, so email to whom to get the process underway?  Or should I time this appropriately and DM you via irc?
[14:59] <jf_> hi, how to get help on bug #869022 ? I can't branch my project !
[15:00] <sinzui> arielweil, czajkowski can change the default rule, then ask the webops to make the series branches public. Other branches will remain private forever. You can delete them then push a new version of the branch, which will be public
[15:01] <arielweil> sinzui: thanks!
[15:05] <sinzui> jam, jelmer can either you you help jf_?
[15:48] <czajkowski> arielweil: are you ok with me changing the default rule today or do you want to wait till tomorrow ?
[16:21] <arielwei_> czajkowski: sorry, you can change the default rule today
[16:26] <czajkowski> ok will do
[16:26] <czajkowski> arielwei_: can you pm me the project name please
[17:27] <colon_D> Anyone else seeing this error when uploading to launchpad? Unhandled exception processing upload: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/tmp/tmpmMsATk/trafficserver-3.1.3/debian/copyright
[17:48] <penguin42> hi, I'm getting a reliable 'Processing Failed' when clicking on a 'Download diff' link in a patch of mine from the patch on here https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-treblig/ubuntu/precise/procps/fix-for-bug-965341
[17:54] <geser> colon_D: which permission does debian/copyright have when you unpack your source package?
[17:55] <nwilliams> sinzui: ping
[17:56] <sinzui> hi
[17:56] <nwilliams> sinzui: Hi! I'm a developer on Persistit that arielwei_ has been bugging you about. Specifics I can assist with?
[17:59] <sinzui> nwilliams, akiban-persistit is becoming public and need to be reconfigured to complete this
[18:02] <sinzui> nwilliams, There are two options to making the code public. The fastest route is to ask a WebOps to make branch linked to https://launchpad.net/akiban-persistit/trunk public. If the commit history cannot be made public, then I suggest deleting the current branch, then push up a new branch with just the files from the tree to reset the revision to 1.
[18:03] <sinzui> nwilliams, Once the base branch is public, new branches that are pushed to Lp will also be public. Branches that are already private remain private because their history or content cannot automatically be concluded to be public
[18:03] <nwilliams> sinzui: If I have a branch that was constructed by fast-export, fast-import-filter, and fast-import (to get rid of non-public bits), will pushing that into /trunk do it? Or does it need to be a branch new branch with rev1?
[18:04] <colon_D> geser: 644, root:root
[18:05] <sinzui> nwilliams, the rev number is not important, but you do need to delete the existing branch...the identity information in the branch are what Lp sees to know it is private. When you ask Lp to delete the branch, it knows to also remove the privacy rule for it
[18:08] <nwilliams> sinzui: If I attempt to delete that branch, I get this error: "This branch cannot be deleted as it has 265 branches sharing revisions. "
[18:08] <geser> colon_D: looks ok, if trafficserver-3.1.3 and trafficserver-3.1.3/debian have also sane permissions, then I've no idea and you have to wait on someone with access to that tmp-directory to check
[18:10] <colon_D> geser: thanks.  I have tried uploading a few times and have gotten the same error since friday
[18:17] <sinzui> nwilliams, okay, just unlink the branch, the push and link the new branch. These at least tells us how many branches will remain private
[18:22] <nwilliams> sinzui: arielwei_: Looks like that did the trick. Thanks!
[18:23] <arielwei_> nwilliams, sinzui: huzzah!
[18:32] <dlynch> Hi everyone, I have a project on launchpad and the automatic import of translations seems to have stopped. Is this the right place to see how I can fix it?
[18:34] <lifeless> sure
[18:34] <lifeless> I suspect our friendly support person has finished for their day, so you might want to file a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/
[18:36] <dlynch> ok thanks lifeless :)
[19:09] <alkisg> While trying to delete our "sch-devs" team: "This team cannot be deleted until its mailing list is first deactivated, then purged after the deactivation is confirmed."
[19:10] <alkisg> I deactivated the mailing list, but I see no option to delete it, what should I do?
[19:11] <czajkowski> alkisg: hi if you file a question https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/
[19:11] <czajkowski> alkisg: it'll get looked at
[19:11] <alkisg> Thank you czajkowski, doing so right now...
[19:14] <alkisg> czajkowski: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/198806 - thank you :)
[19:16] <czajkowski> alkisg: done
[19:17] <alkisg> Cool, ty
[19:23] <alkisg> czajkowski: I had set "ts.sch.gr" as our project (sch-scripts) Maintainer and Driver, but unfortunately lp:~sch-devs/sch-scripts now went to https://code.launchpad.net/~registry/sch-scripts/trunk... Can it be moved to ~ts.sch.gr ?
[19:23] <alkisg> (or deleted, we have the branch locally and can push it again)
[19:23] <alkisg> ...although then we'd lose the bug history :(
[19:24] <Zoohouse> Hello everyone
[19:26] <sinzui> alkisg, looks like a team was deleted, which transferred the branch to ~registry so that the project would keep working
[19:27] <alkisg> sinzui: true, but I thought that setting the Maintainer and Driver to a new team before deleting the team that owned sch-scripts would be enough, unfortunately it wasn't, and I don't know what I should have done to avoid that
[19:27] <sinzui> alkisg, make me a member of https://launchpad.net/~ts.sch.gr then I will change the branch owner to the team. I can leave the team when the branch is transferred
[19:27] <alkisg> Thanks, doing so...
[19:27] <alkisg> sinzui: done
[19:28] <Zoohouse> If I set a second branch (0.02-dev) as the current development branch, does that mean when I run bzr push it will merge my changes with the 0.02-dev branch?
[19:30] <sinzui> alkisg, Done
[19:30] <alkisg> Thank you both very much, and sorry for the trouble :)
[19:33] <sinzui> Zoohouse, No. Changing the focus of development/series branch does not change the existing branches. They continue to be stacked on their previous branches. New branches will be stacked on the new branch
[19:34] <sinzui> Zoohouse, If you delete the branch, then repush, it will be restacked on the new focus of development
[19:35] <Zoohouse> sinzui: At the moment I only have 1 branch (0.01-dev) in the 0.01 series. Right now all I do is bzr push lp:<project> and updates 0.01-dev. Would I have to do bzr push lp:<project>/<branch>?
[19:36] <Zoohouse>  Would I have to do bzr push lp:<project>/<branch> to get a new branch is what I meant to ask
[19:36] <sinzui> Zoohouse, exactly
[19:36] <Zoohouse> ah
[19:36] <Zoohouse> Is it normal to delete old branches? Or do you keep them?
[19:38] <sinzui> Zoohouse, Branches are rarely deleted. Lp detects one one branch merges into another and then updates the status.
[19:38] <sinzui> Merged branches are hidden from the default page views, but you can always search for them if you want to see the old branch
[19:40] <Zoohouse> sinzui: Ok let me see if I understand this. There's one branch for development, branch 1 for example, that branch matures and becomes a release. Then that same branch changes name to 2 or whatever and continues until it matures to a release and so on
[19:42] <Zoohouse> That's how it works?
[19:42] <sinzui> Zoohouse, that is one workflow. It is not common.
[19:44] <sinzui> Zoohouse, Most project have one branch for trunk. The make releases from trunk. If they want to support an old release, create a series for it, and branch/clone/fork trunk at that point to maintain a separate branch
[19:45] <Zoohouse> sinzui: do the help pages have different workflow examples? I'm looking but haven't found it yet
[19:45] <sinzui> Zoohouse, yes
[19:45]  * sinzui looks
[19:46] <sinzui> Zoohouse, https://help.launchpad.net/Projects/SeriesMilestonesReleases
[19:46] <Zoohouse> sinzui: This is the closest I've seen to a workflow https://help.launchpad.net/Code/QuickStart#Set_your_project.27s_trunk_branch
[19:46] <Zoohouse> Ah thanks
[19:48] <sinzui> Zoohouse, Since changing the branch linked to a series, does not update all the existing branches, it it better to minimise the work to rebase branches by using the trailing working flow
[19:52] <dds_> hi, I'm getting a PPA upload rejection claiming that the file "opencryptoki_2.4.2-1~lucid1.debian.tar.gz already exists in Goobuntu Laptop Testing" (https://launchpad.net/~goobuntu-team/+archive/glaptop-testing/), but I deleted that file over an hour ago and continue to get this rejection message.
[19:53] <dds_> looking at the above link, you won't find any ~lucid1 files
[20:00] <Zoohouse> sinzui: wonderful, thank you for your help
[20:00] <sinzui> np


 :-P
[18:50]  * daftykins goes through his holiday post
[18:50] <diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zoiu8_K-eZg
[18:52] <daftykins> o0
[18:53] <daftykins> i played Deus Ex: Mankind Divided until 6am last night - oops.
[18:53] <zmoylan-pi> 6am is technically this morning... :-)
[18:53] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: 100 lines!
[18:54] <zmoylan-pi> for me the overnight didn't care how long i played it game was tau ceti... played that a few times overnight
[18:54] <daftykins> :)
[18:55] <daftykins> gotta wonder how things are going;
[18:55] <daftykins> gas meter card: "Guernsey Gas Limited, Douglas, Isle of Man"
[18:55] <daftykins> i think that's the wrong trousers, Gromit
[18:55] <diddledan_> wha?
[18:56] <diddledan_> how does that work?
[18:56] <zmoylan-pi> they send gas by balloons
[18:56] <daftykins> seems they've centered their whole CS over there now
[19:01] <daftykins> diddledan_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6SMGrIaals XD
[19:08] <diddledan_> daftykins: I wasn't aware I was on film :-p
[19:09] <daftykins> ;D
[19:36] <JonTheNiceGuy[m]> Remember gentlefolk, hacktoberfest has started. 4 pull requests against any github projects and get a t-shirt and stickers :) They're also looking for projects to tag bugs with hacktoberfest to get people looking at them! https://hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> and remember there's a nice reward to first person to hack trumps tax records... :-P
[22:04] <aobzhirov> sasl show
[22:06] <daftykins> mmhmm
[22:07] <zmoylan-pi> open the pod bay doors please hal...
[22:13] <diddledan_> let there be light
[22:13] <diddledan_> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9-Niv2Xh7w
[22:13] <daftykins> Aziz, light
[22:14] <zmoylan-pi> mul ti pass
[22:14] <diddledan_> gotta love a drop of leeloo
[22:14] <diddledan_> truly a perfect being!
[22:14] <daftykins> not in my eyes XD
[22:17] <zmoylan-pi> where did he learn to negotiate like that?
[22:17] <daftykins> 'murica
[22:17] <diddledan_> lol


[00:04] <head_victim> blahdeblah: thanks, it was half written last night half written this morning, some of the parts didn't line up. If you have any pictures please put them up as well :D
[00:04] <head_victim> ANd now I'm gone
[03:36] <head_victim> Oh goodie, livecd time. Apparently I didn't quite get all the sata drives back in the right ports on the mb.
[03:48] <sagaci> alpha 2
[03:59] <head_victim> sagaci: yeah that was half the reason for the rebuild. Had to put in a different cpu cooler and added a 500gb drive I had spare so I can get back into VMs
[09:03] <sagaci> hi
[09:23] <ikt> heya sagaci, what you up to?
[09:23] <sagaci> just had tea. earliest i've had tea in a while
[09:24] <ikt> oo
[09:24] <ikt> you like lipton or ?
[09:24] <ikt> I have tons of lipton ice tea
[09:24] <sagaci> bushells
[09:24] <ikt> go through the stuff like a horse does water
[09:24] <ikt> gotta try bushells
[09:25] <ikt> I make the mistake of putting a shitload of sugar in my tea
[09:25] <ikt> always have to much, make it so sweet my teeth rot
[09:33] <sagaci> i don't sugar my tea
[09:36] <ikt> milk?
[09:38] <sagaci> yep, have that
[09:42] <ikt> http://cdn.nearlyfreespeech.net/jandmstatic/strips/2011-01-13.png <- lol
[10:09] <Blank__> ikt, hahah so true
[10:16] <Phlosten> blankety blanks
[10:40] <sagaci> i'm looking for a specific post on planet ubuntu, is there any way to find posts older than the ones on planet.ubuntu.com
[10:41] <sagaci> just clarifying, I don't know the author
[10:41] <ikt> ah ok
[10:41] <ikt> hrmm
[10:43] <ikt> where's jeff waugh
[10:44] <ikt> there's not many feeds
[21:33] <sagaci> alpha 2 released, get it while it's buggy
[22:15] <blahdeblah> head_victim: ping
[22:17] <blahdeblah> head_victim: For when you get back: I'm going to the post office today to send some stickers (inside CDs) - do you want me to send a few to Boden Matthews (email on the list about 7:30) as well?  Has he sent you his address?
[22:36] <head_victim> blahdeblah: nah he hasn't sent me a number of an address
[22:37] <blahdeblah> head_victim: I'll contact him directly
[22:37] <head_victim> You have many left after your order is filled?
[22:37] <blahdeblah> Stacks
[22:37] <head_victim> Ah k no worries
[22:37] <head_victim> I was thinking of contacting the it flood people and offering a bunch to them
[22:38] <blahdeblah> I've already been talking to them
[22:38] <head_victim> Ah ok I wasn't sure which group you were talking to, I do remember you saying you were helping out
[22:39] <head_victim> That's the qlditrelief.org one?
[22:39] <blahdeblah> Rick Saul, who runs the High & Dry group on Facebook is one of my clients - he is going to offer a choice of Windows & Ubuntu
[22:39] <blahdeblah> head_victim: No, the other one
[22:40] <head_victim> Ah k, well if he would like a bunch of CDs with the business card (so people can get support) just let me know.
[22:40] <blahdeblah> Will do.
[22:40] <head_victim> I'll shoot an email to the qlditrelief people as well
[22:40] <blahdeblah> No worries
[22:40] <head_victim> I'm going to offer the CD and a business card so they aren't left hanging with this "new weird OS".
[22:41] <blahdeblah> yep
[22:41] <blahdeblah> I will use the CDs as the package for the stickers, and throw in 2 business cards with each lot.
[22:42] <head_victim> Makes sense to me.
[22:43] <head_victim> I contacted Clinton to offer some to Humbug and/or The Edge but he's probably busy recuperating. I'd just hate to still have them all here when the new release comes out.
[22:44] <blahdeblah> Clinton was telling me that the Edge is a great place for meetings, since they already "get" Open Source.  Free Internet, too, IIRC.
[22:45] <head_victim> Yeah I offered a poster, some business cards and CDs in case they had a place there for people to put stuff for others to take.
[23:52] <sagaci> alpha 2 not booting on bare metal
[23:52] <sagaci> kernel panic etc etc


[01:03] <claydoh> if i get this job at harbor freight tools, I will be using KDE there :D
[01:04] <claydoh> their cash register/inventory system use red hat and KDE3 lol
[01:05] <Riddell> nice, if due for an upgrade :)
[01:05] <claydoh> lol
[01:06] <claydoh> they have 300+ locations all using it iirc
[01:07] <Riddell> sounds like a case of it works so no need to upgrade
[01:07] <Riddell> which is fine if liable to bit-rot
[01:08] <claydoh> yup, it is a place for cheap tools
[01:08] <Riddell> got any good sandpaper for use on epoxy resin?
[01:08] <claydoh> probably
[01:10] <claydoh> i assume waterproof paper
[01:11] <claydoh> or aluminum oxide for finish work
[01:11] <claydoh> but am no expert yet
[01:27] <Riddell> anything to add? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/TechnicalOverview#Kubuntu
[02:14] <Darkwing> Riddell: anything else we add? we aren'tlaunching litedm are we?
[02:29] <Darkwing> Wow... I had to crash akonadi to get it to send mail via KMail in 4.8
[06:10]  * Tm_T lits a fag and ponders a moment over https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdegames/+bug/925002/comments/4
[06:11] <Tm_T> ...or something
[06:13] <micahg> hehe
[07:57] <amichair> afiestas: if there's any info I can provide to help with solving this bug, let me know
[09:21] <Riddell> Darkwing: "we aren'tlaunching litedm are we" pardon?
[09:26] <agateau> Riddell: I guess Darkwing means lightdm?
[09:26] <Riddell> oh maybe
[09:42] <afiestas> amichair_: open "kdebugdialog" seelct everything with the word "kded" on it
[09:42] <afiestas> then go to a terminal and execute kquitapp kded4; sleep 5; kded4 --nofork
[09:43] <afiestas> then try to reproduce the bug and paste the output somewhere
[10:02] <apachelogger> lightdm?
[10:02] <apachelogger> :O
[10:03] <apachelogger> afiestas: btw, u still working on xrandr fixes?
[10:03] <apachelogger> since 4.8 it seems utterly broken for markey again
[10:09] <afiestas> apachelogger: well utterly broken is not something I can fix
[10:09] <afiestas> no commit has been done since my fixes so..
[10:11] <apachelogger> yeah, I wasn't implying you broke it :)
[10:11] <apachelogger> just wondering whether you still have it on your todo
[10:12] <afiestas> if you gimme a bug I can reproduce, I will fix it :p
[10:14] <apachelogger> markey: give the master a bug
[10:23] <apachelogger> yofel_, debfx: do I read the code wrong or did they remove the .gtkrc support completely?
[10:23] <apachelogger> well
[10:23] <apachelogger> deprecate it anyway
[10:29] <yofel_> they did
[10:29] <yofel> that's why we're looking at xsettings in the first place
[10:30] <apachelogger> well
[10:30] <apachelogger> the Qt approach is still an option
[10:30] <apachelogger> though I can't quite figure out where it spits out the default theme
[10:31]  * apachelogger should do phonon stuff anyway
[10:32] <Tm_T> apachelogger: afiestas: this? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=183143
[10:32] <apachelogger> yes
[10:32] <apachelogger> I think
[10:32] <apachelogger> something along those lines anyway
[10:32] <Tm_T> I have that problem
[10:32] <apachelogger> the entire thing really needs redoing
[10:32] <Tm_T> the krandr settings are not read on login
[10:32] <apachelogger> well
[10:32] <apachelogger> the silly thing is
[10:32] <apachelogger> they are not even with krandrtray in autostart
[10:33] <apachelogger> which apparently worked before
[10:33] <Tm_T> awww
[10:37] <afiestas> apachelogger: that's what I'm doing (redoing it)
[10:38] <afiestas> apachelogger: are you comming to fosdem?
[10:39] <apachelogger> no
[10:39] <apachelogger> bambee_ is
[10:39] <apachelogger> he is my proxy
[10:39] <apachelogger> which prevents liver failure on my side :P
[11:13] <schnelle_> guys i am running newest muon from qapt ppa in oneiric
[11:13] <schnelle_> and muon updater offers upgrade !?
[11:13] <schnelle_> http://www.dodaj.rs/f/1T/pt/40ZkO4Fo/snapshot4.png
[11:14] <schnelle_> but "show new distribution releases" is set to "never": http://www.dodaj.rs/f/2t/1c/47yhDVjM/snapshot5.png
[11:14] <schnelle_> anyone seeing this?
[11:14] <Riddell> schnelle_: file a bug or talk to jonathan thomas, he's not on the channel just now
[11:15] <schnelle_> ok
[12:36] <amichair> afiestas: kquitapp(27042): "Application kded4 could not be found using service org.kde.kded4 and path /MainApplication."
[12:36] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[12:37] <amichair> (ps shows one 'kdeinit4: kded4 [kdeinit]')
[12:38] <shadeslayer> Heh, I can't get my notebook up and running after making it sleep
[12:48] <apachelogger> amichair: kded4 register as kded
[12:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: get proper hardware then
[12:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: atleast the Display Port works properly now :P
[12:49] <shadeslayer> can connect to Projectors and TV's just fine ....
[12:50] <apachelogger> watching prn with pornon on pornjector?
[12:53] <shadeslayer> yup
[12:54] <shadeslayer> Did I mention Dragon makes X crash and VLC crashes when I try to play a video?
[12:54] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ^ Any insights?
[13:01] <amichair> afiestas: http://pastebin.com/yaFdQxQf (annotated with my comments)
[13:02] <amichair> afiestas: note that another display bug is mentioned other than no sleep - what can I do, it happened while I was running this little test :-)
[13:05] <BluesKaj> morning folks
[13:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: get proper hardware then
[13:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: make proper software for my hardware
[13:15] <BluesKaj> now now
[13:40] <shadeslayer> poor buildd's
[13:40] <shadeslayer> "amd64	3	 9541 jobs (13 days)"
[13:40] <shadeslayer> "i386	5	 17762 jobs (13 days)"
[13:42] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: btw lilstevie says that it is possible to get native Ubuntu running on the transformer, it's just that he was busy last month
[13:43] <Quintasan> native?
[13:43] <shadeslayer> yeah
[13:43] <Quintasan> so what the hell I have been installing up until now?
[13:43] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: as in, not a chroot
[13:44] <shadeslayer> I can't even get chroot :/
[13:44] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: OLiFE was doing a chroot?
[13:44] <shadeslayer> I don't know
[13:44]  * shadeslayer looks
[13:44] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: do you reboot in order to get Ubuntu?
[13:44] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: I do, and I did hold pwr down to get into it
[13:44] <afiestas> amichair_: mmm is "normal" that it does not go to suspend if an external monitor is connected
[13:44] <Quintasan> I was using dualboot
[13:45] <afiestas> oh wait, re-reading it again
[13:45] <shadeslayer> It's native then
[13:46] <afiestas> amichair_: I see, it is detected HDMI1 as active and that may be why the desktop is not resized either
[13:46] <afiestas> can you give me the output of xrandr, and tell me your GPU ?
[14:10] <amichair> afiestas: http://pastebin.com/rrimjDPV
[14:19] <afiestas> amichair_: now do this
[14:19] <afiestas> xrandr --output eDP1 --off; This will disconnect the eDP output
[14:20] <afiestas> (do that while getting the kded output)
[14:20] <afiestas> and once it is removed, tell me if the desktop has been resized this time, and then close the lid
[14:23]  * Riddell reports bug 925490
[14:26] <amichair> afiestas: this will disable the laptop monitor, not the external one, yes?
[14:26] <afiestas> amichair_: yes
[14:27] <afiestas> in that case the inhibition will be correct, later we will test the other way around, disabling the HDMI
[14:27] <afiestas> important to do everything via command line to be sure that krandr is not playing with us
[14:28] <amichair> afiestas: ok, did it: http://pastebin.com/8X5SMFCL
[14:29] <amichair> afiestas: how do I re-enable edp1?
[14:29] <afiestas> ooks, good news is taht this time the "active monitor" list is correct
[14:29] <afiestas> xrandr --output eDP1 --auto --output HDMI1 --off
[14:29] <afiestas> this will turn off the HDMI and turn on the eDP1
[14:32] <amichair> afiestas:  http://pastebin.com/qKFxMG5E
[14:33] <afiestas> now it worked, right?
[14:33] <afiestas> kded(29956) PowerDevil::Action::trigger: Unsatisfied policies, the action has been aborted
[14:33] <afiestas> oh shit
[14:33] <amichair> afiestas: the display resizing yes, the sleep no
[14:33] <afiestas> you are running 4.8.0 I suppose
[14:34] <amichair> afiestas: btw, right after a fresh reboot the sleep does seem to work, and also now if I press the sleep (fn+f1) shortcut or select it from shutdown menu. It doesn't work when closing the lid, after I've been using it for a while, or sleeping/resuming, or using HDMI - not quite sure what causes it to start failing
[14:36] <amichair> afiestas: unrelated, another annoying bug is that once I reconnect HDMI (like right now), while both monitors work, it doesn't remember the configuration - I'm getting a clone right now, even though before the xrander stuff I had an extended desktop configuration (with HDMI being the primary)
[14:36] <afiestas> it will only remember one configuration and not sure if it is working
[14:36] <amichair> every time I plug in or resume HDMI, I have to go into the display settings and re-configure the setup :-/
[14:36] <afiestas> I'm in the process of redoing all this because the current thing is... well let's say it is old
[14:37] <amichair> it would be great if it remembered the configuration per list of currently connected devices
[14:37] <afiestas> it does
[14:37] <afiestas> (yes in pressent, the current code I have around here it does that :p)
[14:37] <amichair> in that case, it would be great if it did something with that knowledge ;-)
[14:37] <afiestas> I hope to have it finished in a few months :p
[14:37] <amichair> afiestas: cool! looking forward to it :-)
[14:38] <afiestas> going back to the inhibition thing
[14:39] <BluesKaj> BBL
[14:39] <afiestas> enable HDMI1 and eDP1, then restart kded
[14:39] <afiestas> I'm going to need all kded output if possible, especially if lines like
[14:40] <afiestas> "Inhibing: " or "Inhibing: " appear
[14:40] <afiestas> once restarted close the lid, in theory it should not suspend
[14:40] <afiestas> then WITHOUT restarting kded, disable the laptop screen by executing
[14:41] <afiestas> xrandr --output eDP1 --off
[14:41] <afiestas> close the lid again, and in theory it should NOT suspend
[14:41] <amichair> it does: say Inhibing, which sounds close enough to inhibiting :-)  http://pastebin.com/p8TFNCnT
[14:42] <afiestas> finally, execute xrandr --output eDP1 --auto --output HDMI1 --off
[14:42] <afiestas> wait 1 second or 2, close the lid and it should suspend
[14:42] <amichair> so repeating the same excercise as before basically?
[14:43] <afiestas> I guess, but this time with the entire log so I can see why it is not stopping
[14:49] <amichair> afiestas: here's the whole annotated session: http://pastebin.com/CPbPTv7C
[14:49] <amichair> (sleep didn't work at any point)
[14:50] <afiestas> amichair_: awesome !
[14:50] <afiestas> can you test a patch?
[14:51] <amichair> afiestas: how hard/dangerous/reversible is it?
[14:51] <afiestas> it is not dangerous at all, 100% reversible I promess won't kill any kitty
[14:52] <amichair> ok, let's give it  a shot
[14:55] <afiestas> amichair: give me 10 min to re-read the entire bug report to be sure that what I'm going to do fix it once for all
[14:55] <amichair> no problem!
[15:02] <afiestas> amichair: http://www.afiestas.org/picopatch.patch
[15:05] <amichair> afiestas: what do I need to checkout, dependencies to install, and how to build it?
[15:06] <afiestas> maybe will be quicker if some kubuntu packager fellow can do magic and create a package?
[15:06] <afiestas> Riddell:  apachelogger bambee_ etc ? :p
[15:06] <amichair> magic would be nice, yes
[15:06] <Riddell> afiestas: what?
[15:07] <afiestas> anywya, going to commit the change, is a fix for sure
[15:07] <afiestas> Riddell: package a kde-workspace package with a fix I just made so amichair chan test
[15:07] <Riddell> I don't have time today but it's easy enough for someone familiar with packaging
[15:14] <debfx> is there something kvkbd can do that the keyboard plasma widget can't?
[15:15] <debfx> otherwise we could unseed it
[15:15] <Riddell> I don't know, need someone familiar with accessibility to say
[15:15] <Riddell> you could well be right
[15:17] <debfx> oh, the layout is very broken when added to a vertical panel :/
[15:18] <Riddell> of kvkbd?
[15:19] <debfx> no, the plasma widget
[15:20] <afiestas> debfx: do you have time for packaging kde-workspace with an extra patch so amichair can do some testing ?
[15:22] <debfx> afiestas: not today
[15:22] <amichair> do u guys have a nightly build? if so I can test it tomorrow
[15:23] <amichair> I'd try and build it myself, but I'm lacking a build environment and time
[15:33] <Riddell> amichair: project neon for nightly builds of KDE
[15:33] <Riddell> http://techbase.kde.org/Getting_Started/Using_Project_Neon_to_contribute_to_KDE
[15:35] <Riddell> apachelogger, yofel: what's the state of project neon, got it running for my fosdem demo, looking great, it's 4.8 branch right?
[15:43] <Riddell> shadeslayer: is there any easy way I can get telepathy-kde running to demo at fosdem?
[16:26] <yofel> Riddell: no, it's master (~4.9), and lacking a little maintainence lately but should still work
[16:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: there's a scripted setup
[16:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: so if you use the script + neon, it should work
[16:29]  * afiestas just requested sponsorshp
[16:30] <afiestas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseSchedule
[16:30] <afiestas> if I read everything correctly, we can upload new packages until February 16th, right?
[16:33] <yofel> right, after that you'll need to follow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess if you still need to get something in
[16:35] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://community.kde.org/Real-Time_Communication_and_Collaboration/Getting_Set_Up/Scripted
[16:37] <Riddell> thanks yofel, shadeslayer
[16:37] <Riddell> afiestas: yes
[16:41] <afiestas> Riddell: new minor releases will be allowed?
[16:43] <Riddell> afiestas: no new features without approval
[16:44] <Riddell> so point releases are usually ok
[16:44] <afiestas> oks
[16:45] <Adri2000> hi
[16:45] <Adri2000> is there any intent to update digikam to 2.5.0 and/or sync it with debian (experimental) before FF?
[16:46] <Riddell> Adri2000: yes that would be nice
[16:47] <Adri2000> (I'm asking because I'd like to get opencv updated, and the digikam 2.4.0 in ubuntu FTBFS with the new opencv, while the digikam 2.5.0 in debian doesn't :))
[16:48] <Riddell> go for it
[16:51] <Adri2000> will talk with debfx first, because the number of ubuntu changes according to changelog scares me :p
[16:58] <yofel> it shouldn't be that much. It's just that we never got to merge it with debian since 2.0 came out so you can't really see what the actuall diff is
[17:06] <shadeslayer> Riddell: btw in that script, make sure you run neon-env first and then the script
[17:07] <Riddell> oh
[17:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer: where do I get that?
[17:08] <shadeslayer> Riddell: you'll get it when you install Project Neon ;)
[17:08] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I have it installed
[17:09] <shadeslayer> ah, then just type : neon-env in the console
[17:09] <Riddell> shadeslayer: nothing
[17:09] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[17:10] <shadeslayer> Riddell: did you install project-neon-utils?
[17:11] <Riddell> no
[17:12] <Riddell> trying..
[17:12] <Riddell> something compiling..
[17:13] <shadeslayer> lol wot?
[17:14] <shadeslayer> that's probably kbuildsycoca4 running :P
[17:15] <Riddell> the build script is compiling bits
[17:17] <Riddell> shadeslayer: compiled and installed I think, now what?
[17:20] <shadeslayer> ah
[17:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: in krunner type "telepathy" and it should pop up
[17:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: oh, you wouldn't have any accounts configured as well, so you'll have to go to systemsettings first
[17:22] <shadeslayer> or : kcmshell4 kcm_telepathy_accounts
[17:22]  * shadeslayer ponders if Riddell has telepathy-gabble installed
[17:24] <Riddell> http://starsky.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/telepathy.png
[17:25] <shadeslayer> heh
[17:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I like your wallpaper
[17:25] <shadeslayer> :P
[17:25] <Riddell> "Could not find module 'kcm_telepathy_accounts'. See kcmshell4 --list for the full list of modules.
[17:26] <shadeslayer> anyway, mission control isn't running
[17:26] <Riddell> this is seeming too much like hard work for me
[17:26] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah, initial setup  is a bit of a hassle
[17:26] <shadeslayer> the backend doesn't start automagically
[17:26] <Riddell> oh well, too much energy
[17:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: do you have telepathy-mission-control-5 installed?
[17:28] <Riddell> no
[17:28] <Riddell> will that fix it?
[17:29] <shadeslayer> Riddell: okay, install telepathy-mission-control-5 , telepathy-gabble and telepathy-salut
[17:30] <Riddell> shadeslayer: then it'll work?
[17:30] <shadeslayer> and after that, you need to either log out/log in again or run : /usr/lib/telepathy/mission-control-5
[17:30] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yes
[17:30] <shadeslayer> Riddell: like I said, the backend doesn't autostart on install
[17:32] <Riddell> shadeslayer: progress
[17:32] <Riddell> but I can't connect to google talk
[17:32] <shadeslayer> Oh, what's the problem?
[17:33] <Riddell> "there was a problem while trying to connect - some of the IM components are not working correctly"
[17:33] <shadeslayer> telepathy-gabble is supposed to take care of issues
[17:33] <Riddell> telepathy-gabble is installed
[17:33] <shadeslayer> uhh hmm ...
[17:34] <shadeslayer> Lemme ask, one sec
[17:39] <Darkwing> hmmm, I kinda like the feel of the new default wallpaper
[17:39] <shadeslayer> Darkwing: yeah same here
[17:39] <shadeslayer> It's .... frsh
[17:39] <shadeslayer> *fresh
[17:39] <yofel> horos was too distracting compared with air
[17:39] <yofel> err... *paired with air
[17:40] <Darkwing> its plain but, artistically solid
[17:40] <Darkwing> 4.8 ingeneral has a better user feel.
[17:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: hmm ... you need to copy /opt/project-neon/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Client.* to /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ I believe
[17:44] <shadeslayer> That should be the last thing you need to do
[17:44] <Riddell> shadeslayer: same thing
[17:45] <shadeslayer> :S
[17:45] <shadeslayer> Log out and login again
[17:45] <shadeslayer> stupid DBus is stupid
[17:46] <Riddell> shadeslayer: same thing
[17:46] <shadeslayer> ...
[17:46] <shadeslayer> I don't know then :(
[17:47] <BluesKaj> ssh sure is slow to load remote files on kde 4.8
[17:53] <Riddell> thanks shadeslayer
[17:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: did it work? Or will you wait for the packages? :D
[18:02] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no
[18:44] <cnd> hmm
[18:44] <cnd> oops
[18:52] <Riddell> nice e-mail of the day http://paste.kde.org/198764/
[18:52] <Riddell> well negative at the end but otherwise nice
[18:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I think he means that he switched to Kubuntu :P
[18:53] <BarkingFish> i don't see that as negative at all, Riddell :)
[18:54] <yofel> he isn't the first one :D
[18:54] <BarkingFish> Far from it.  He's taken ubuntu off and switched to the Big Blue K :)  And that can't be bad.
[19:04] <Riddell> I'm away for a few hours, please watch for alpha 2 announce and put on the website when you see it
[20:23] <afiestas> mm I was thinking on rushing on qrandr development so it can be at precise but since it is a LTS... I better do something else
[20:23] <afiestas> so, waht can I do to help kubuntu? which bug do you want me to try to fix?
[20:28] <skaet> Riddell, (or delegate) - images are up on site, and announce has been mailed.   You can make your page live now.
[23:48] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/precise-alpha


[00:43] <jrwren> i dont' understand what budgie is.
[00:43] <jrwren> from where did it come?
[00:43] <jrwren> There was no info about just what the ubuntu budgie remix is on the ubuntu budgie remix website. What is this budgie desktop? What is its pedigre?
[00:44] <jrwren> Why would I choose it over any other?
[00:44] <jrwren> I really don't understand linux desktop alt people. /r/ubuntu suffers from this to. It seems like the only thing people care about is the bling and nothing about actually using a computer to get work done.
[00:45] <jrwren> I realized recently that I have zero interest overlap with the linux desktop community because I care zero about bling and I only care about being able to accomplish tasks at hand.
[00:45] <jrwren> This is probably why I never gave a damn about unity. It did nothing to help me accomplish tasks I needed to get done. It only hindered them by taking away features that I was used to in either gnome or kde.
[01:18] <cmaloney> I'm not a fan of KDE's customizability because it borders on fidgety
[01:18] <cmaloney> I can fidget with it all day
[01:19] <cmaloney> but I also don't like the minimalism of stripped-down GNOME
[01:22] <hpucks> I like Mate these days.
[01:22] <hpucks> Simple, yet still customizable if that's what you want.
[01:23] <hpucks> And in my opinion Gnome 2 was the best at getting things done.
[13:09] <shakes808> Morning all.  Not sure if any of you are StarCraft players, but they are remastering it with better graphics.