[01:45] <RoyK> -  It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses.


[11:38] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:39] <penguin42> hey BK
[11:47] <BluesKaj> hey penguin42
[15:39] <hyper_ch> Hi there, I noticed something strange. I did download the ubuntu mini iso for wily and wanted to do an install because I want to have a raid1 with 1 disk on my notebook. However it has issues with my intel gigabit ethernet and I had to attach an ancient usb wifi stick. However the problem I couldn't solve was that it did not detect my SSD.
[15:39] <hyper_ch> I tried then the same with current utopic mini iso. Same issues with wifi and again no SSD detected. I went to a different tty and check /dev/disk/by-id and only the usb stick was there
[15:40] <hyper_ch> any suggestion?
[15:40] <penguin42> it's odd not to detect an ssd
[15:41] <penguin42> hyper_ch: How is the ssd connected - just normal ssd?
[15:41] <hyper_ch> penguin42: samsung 840 pro attached on the notebook's internal sata 3 connector
[15:41] <hyper_ch> Sysinfo for 'subi': Running inside KDE Plasma 5 on Ubuntu 15.04 (Vivid Vervet) powered by Linux 3.19.0-22-generic, CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4200U CPU @ 1.60GHz at 998-1656/2600 MHz, RAM: 4781/15489 MB, Storage: 355/469 GB, 259 procs, 0.11h up
[15:42] <hyper_ch> so I'm pondering to try the server install and then just add kubuntu-desktop
[15:42] <hyper_ch> but what else is changed in the server edition?
[15:42] <penguin42> hyper_ch: OK, so hmm, so if you can get a shell on the mini iso  I'd check  cat /proc/partitions   to see if the ssd is showing up that far, and also check lspci     to see if the ether and sata controllers are visible
[15:43] <hyper_ch> penguin42: feeling like to troubleshoot it? if so, I boot up the other notebook and re-try... otherwise I might give the server edition a try
[15:43] <penguin42> hyper_ch: I'm around, so feel free to ask
[15:44] <hyper_ch> ok, let's boot up the other notebook
[15:52] <hyperch> so, almost ready regarding the missing ssd
[15:54] <penguin42> good
[15:54] <hyperch> veracrypt takes long to load
[15:55] <hyperch> it's doing hardware detection
[15:56] <hyperch> so, selected manual partitioning -> only the usb stick is shown
[15:56] <hyperch> ok, am in terminal, what should I check?
[15:56] <hyperch> lspci and /proc/partitions ?
[15:56] <penguin42> cat /proc/partitions
[15:57] <hyperch> penguin42: only  sda   and  sda1   listed which is the usb stick
[15:57] <penguin42> hyperch: OK, can you do an lspci now and see if you can see the sata controller and ether controller?
[15:58] <hyperch> well, it did detect the ethernet (but not internal wifi) but couldn't get dhcp connection
[15:59] <penguin42> ok, is the sata controller there?
[15:59] <hyperch> as for sata: SATA controller: Intel Corporation 8 Series SATA Controller (AHCI mode) (rev 04)
[16:00] <penguin42> hmm good, ok, then dmesg to search for messages from the sata controller
[16:00] <hyperch> also:  Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd RTL111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
[16:00] <hyperch> and:  Network controller: Intel Corporation Wireless 7260
[16:00] <penguin42> excellent
[16:01] <hyperch> but installer didn't show internal wifi at all
[16:01] <hyperch> dmesg | grep -i sata
[16:01] <penguin42> if you can pastebin the dmesg it might help
[16:01] <hyperch> ACPI: SSDT 0xa-lot-of-hex 000313 v01 hpqoem sataahci 00001000 intl 20110112
[16:02] <hyperch> ahci 000:00:1f.2: ahci 0001.0300 32 slots 2 ports 6 gpbs 0x1 impl sata mode
[16:02] <hyperch> ata1: sata max udma/133 abar<EMAIL_ADDRESS>port 0xHEX.... irg 46
[16:03] <penguin42> best to pastebin
[16:03] <hyperch> ata 1 SATA link up 6.0 Gbps (SStatus 133 SControl 300)
[16:03] <hyperch> how to pastebin?
[16:03] <hyperch> ata1: limit sata link speed to 3.0 gbps
[16:03] <penguin42> do you have networking?
[16:03] <hyperch> can't install pastebinit
[16:04] <hyperch> yes, networking works with the usb wifi
[16:04] <penguin42> hmm pastebinit was what I was going to suggest
[16:04] <hyperch> it's mini install cd shell
[16:04] <hyperch> apt-get: not found ;)
[16:06] <hyperch> but I have another way
[16:07] <hyperch> http://images.sjau.ch/img/37e8dfb4.jpg
[16:08] <hyperch> penguin42: git it?
[16:08] <hyperch> got
[16:09] <hyperch> I'll try with server cd now
[16:11]  * penguin42 looks
[16:12] <penguin42> hyperch: Problem is it doesn't have the rest of the log
[16:12] <hyperch> well, what else to grep for?
[16:12] <hyperch> problem is I can't pastebin the file
[16:12] <hyperch> I can only take pics
[16:12] <penguin42> hyperch: Can you get the whole of dmesg off by copying it to a usb stick?
[16:13] <hyperch> I could do that
[16:13] <hyperch> lets see how server acts
[16:13] <penguin42> I mean that all looks good, it sees a sata controller
[16:14] <hyperch> no dhcp either on internal ethernet card
[16:14] <hyperch> intel wireless not recognized
[16:15] <hyperch> need again external wifi stick
[16:18] <hyperch> this is weird.... server didn't recognize either
[16:19] <penguin42> that doesn't surprise me; if it's a kernel driver problem it's probably the same kernel
[16:20] <hyperch> well, trying to get the dmesg onto a stick
[16:20] <hyperch> but can't figre out hw
[16:21] <hyperch> copy syslog?7
[16:21] <penguin42> well if you've got the stick mounted then just do  dmesg > /path/to/the/stick
[16:22] <hyperch> brb
[16:25] <hyper_ch> penguin42: hmmm, could the current raid1 setup be an issue
[16:25] <hyper_ch> pasting now
[16:26] <hyper_ch> penguin42: https://paste.debian.net/261923/
[16:28] <hyper_ch> lines 761-774 look weird
[16:34] <penguin42> hyper_ch: Can you explain your raid1 setup?
[16:36] <penguin42> hyper_ch: 648etc explain why your wifi isn't working - it's missing the firmware package
[16:38] <penguin42> hyper_ch: And yes, 761-774 show your problem - it's found the controller but it's failing to perform the most basic sata commands on the drive
[16:47] <penguin42> hyper_ch: So file a kernel bug for it
[16:50] <hyperch> penguin42: so, back again
[16:50] <hyperch> did you write anything?
[16:51] <hyperch> I tried to dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda to get rid of the partition stuff
[16:51] <hyperch> and then I tried the mini again, still not recognized
[16:51] <penguin42> hyperch: It looks like a kernel bug, just file it
[16:51] <hyperch> so now I'm dd-ing backup my previous backup
[16:51] <hyperch> penguin42: problem is same happened with utopic also
[16:51] <hyperch> s/dd-ing/dcfldd-ing/
[16:52] <hyperch> and I did install utopic from beta mini
[16:52] <hyperch> file at ubuntu's launchpad? or linux kernel?
[16:53] <penguin42> ubuntu launchpad
[16:53] <hyperch> hmmm, I wonder now how I can convert from ext4 to btrfs
[16:53] <penguin42> oh I think there is a converter for that, haven't tried btrfs for a while
[16:54] <hyperch> it's encrypted raid1
[16:54] <penguin42> encrypted by what?
[16:54] <penguin42> standard luks ?
[16:54] <hyperch> yes
[16:55] <penguin42> ok, that's not related then since it's not got as far as finding the underlying disk
[16:55] <hyperch> -> /boot is just raid1 and / is encrypted raid1 (dmcrypt, mdadm) and no swap
[16:59] <penguin42> hang on, you say raid1 - if it's only missing your ssd, where is your other half of your raid?
[16:59] <hyperch> it's raid1 with 1 disk usually
[17:02] <hyperch> I think I'll try again with 15.04 server image and then do upgrade to wily.... let's see if that works
[17:03] <penguin42> so where is your disk?
[17:03] <hyperch> it's the ssd in the notebook
[17:03] <hyperch> but when I make hotcopies, I attach a usb 3.0 disk
[17:03] <hyperch> expand the raid to 2 devices
[17:03] <hyperch> let it sink
[17:04] <hyperch> mark the external disk faulty
[17:04] <hyperch> shrink raid again to 1 device
[17:04] <hyperch> s/sink/sync/
[17:05] <penguin42> oh ok, weird way of doing it, but ok
[17:06] <hyperch> why weird? that way I don't have to power the notebook off
[17:08]  * penguin42 tends to backup using the files rather than the disk, but it's ok
[17:08] <hyperch> if I do a server install, what is different from when I do a minimal install and then select kubuntu-desktop or from the desktop cd?
[17:09] <hyperch> well, the goal of doing it that way would be, that if your harddisk in the computer fails, you can just boot from the external backed up disk
[17:09] <hyperch> stil have a few grub issues to sort out but gneerally it works
[17:09] <penguin42> yeh, it's not that bad a way
[17:09] <hyperch> grub starts fine but it sort of complains then... haven't found out the reason yet :)
[17:14] <penguin42> yeh it'll probably be because it's expecting it to be on the bios disk
[17:15] <hyperch> penguin42:  http://paste.debian.net/261941/
[17:17] <hyperch> trying now with ubuntu server 15.04
[17:22] <hyperch> now I can't get wifi connection :(
[17:31] <hyperch> but ethernet works and ssd gets detected
[17:52] <hyperch> penguin42: that was now a fight...
[17:53] <penguin42> so 15.04 sees the ssd but 15.10 doesn't ?
[17:54] <hyperch> well, the server cd from 15.04 sees the ssd...
[17:54] <hyperch> while 15.10 doesn't see it at all (neither server nor minimal)
[17:54] <hyperch> I'll test with 15.04 minimal in a bit
[17:55] <hyperch> well, my main reasons for the pain is change to btrfs and make /boot non-raid and also to get systemd 220 :)
[17:55] <penguin42> hyperch: You can do things like find exactly which kernel version broke it
[17:55] <hyperch> I mean what else is there to do on a hot sunny summer's day :)
[17:56] <hyperch> how would I find the exact kernel version? I will upgrade the 15.04 then 15.10
[17:57] <penguin42> hyperch: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/    that's got a range of kernel versions - you find which one works, which one doesn't - once you've filed a bug, if you're lucky they'll walk you through it
[17:57] <penguin42> hyperch: If you can build kernels you can use git bisect to find the exact code change
[17:57] <hyperch> that sounds scary :)
[17:58] <hyperch> hmmm, ubuntu server has also nice tasksel for openssh and kubuntu desktop
[17:58] <hyperch> maybe I have used ubuntu server install back in april
[17:59] <hyperch> no need to test the mini iso then but I can straight go ahead upgrade to 15.10 when I'm done
[17:59] <hyperch> as for the upgrade, I'd just alter the sources.list to wily and do dist-upgrade or is there a better option?
[17:59] <BluesKaj> hyperch, 15.10 alpha image is released
[18:00] <hyperch> BluesKaj: as told before in #kubuntu, the installer doesn't find my ssd
[18:00] <BluesKaj> ok , didn't realize it was the 15.10 verson
[18:01] <hyperch> no worries :)
[18:01] <hyperch> penguin42 thinks it's the kernel's fault
[18:01] <penguin42> BluesKaj: dmesg shows it's finding the controller and spits a bunch of errors when trying to send the first command to the drive
[18:09] <BluesKaj> penguin42, still on the mini cd?
[18:10] <hyperch> BluesKaj: errors were both on mini and server for 15.10
[18:10] <hyperch> doing now install on 15.04 and will then upgrade
[18:13] <BluesKaj> hope that works for you hyperch
[18:13] <hyperch> well, can't even boot the 15.04 install
[18:13] <hyperch> this is weird
[18:14] <BluesKaj> how far do you get?
[18:14] <hyperch> well, I installed it
[18:14] <hyperch> but it just keeps rebooting
[18:14] <BluesKaj> when booting
[18:14] <hyperch> not even sure if it gets to grub
[18:15] <hyperch> I set /boot to btrfs
[18:15] <hyperch> and / is encrypted raid1 with btrfs
[18:16] <BluesKaj> try the tty/vt, grub might be 0 hidden time out
[18:16] <hyperch> (on my backup I have /boot as raid1 ext4 and / as raid1 ext4
[18:16] <hyperch> how to try that tty?
[18:16] <BluesKaj> ctl+alt+F1-F6
[18:16] <hyperch> when? it just keeps rebooting
[18:17] <BluesKaj> uhoh
[18:17] <BluesKaj> at he blinking cursor
[18:17] <BluesKaj> the
[18:18] <hyperch> no tty opens
[18:19] <BluesKaj> btrfs...why? my understanding is that file system is unstable and buggy
[18:19] <hyperch> snapshotting
[18:19] <hyperch> probably can do on /boot without
[18:19] <hyperch> let's do another install :)
[18:20] <hyperch> it's a grub issue
[18:20] <hyperch> I entered the 15.04 server usb stick... and forgot to press to boot from it... now I ended up at the luks password entry screen
[18:22] <BluesKaj> not familar territory for me, so not much help from this user  :/
[18:22] <hyperch> seems that grub go installed onto the usb stick instead of the ssd
[18:23] <hyperch> opening konsole sudo grub-install /dev/sda fixed the issue :)
[18:27] <hyperch> downloading now wily packages
[18:27] <hyperch> only 400mb
[18:50] <hyperch> ok, upgrade done with a few hiccups.. now lets see if it reboots
[18:51] <hyperch> ok, I'm back in
[19:24] <hyper_ch> so, restoring files and configs and stuff
[19:24] <hyper_ch> kernel seems to work fine... still curious why I couldn't install with it


[03:46] <confused_noob_13> I just installed ubuntu today. I set up Thunderbird to work with gmail, but I can't seem to get any kind of new email notifications to display anywhere visually on the screen. Is there a generally accepted way to do that?
[08:13] <Saviq> tsdgeos, in MUC atm, flying back in 2h and will be mostly around rest of the afternoon
[08:13] <tsdgeos> Saviq: oki :)
[08:14] <tsdgeos> and my notifications are crazy again :/
[08:14] <tsdgeos> bbiam
[08:38] <tsdgeos> Saviq: somehow our autopilot tests regressed wildly again :/
[08:38] <Saviq> bah
[08:38] <tsdgeos> i'll dedicate some time this morning to see if i can see them failing here
[08:38] <tsdgeos> now that CI team wants to gate on them
[08:39] <tsdgeos> Saviq: do you know if CI uses mako or krillin on the autopiloting?
[08:39] <Saviq> mako
[08:39] <Saviq> yeah, do that
[09:39] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: hey, I have one failing AP test on the silo
[09:39] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: and one failing qmltest. I've commented on the branch
[09:39] <tsdgeos> you lucky man :D
[09:39] <tsdgeos> only one AP failing!
[09:39] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: yes, only one
[09:39] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: you mean the card creator? updated it
[09:39] <mzanetti> ack.
[09:39] <mzanetti> will rebuild
[09:40] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: about the AP one, which one is it? and which error do you have?
[09:40] <mzanetti> unity8.shell.tests.test_emulators.DashAppsEmulatorTestCase.test_get_applications_should_return_correct_applications
[09:41] <mzanetti> index 0 != 1 or so
[09:41] <tsdgeos> ok, give me a few mins
[09:41] <tsdgeos> i'm running  phablet-test-run -n -A --timeout-profile=long -v unity8
[09:41] <tsdgeos> want to see what's the total output
[09:42] <mzanetti> :D
[09:42] <tsdgeos> wondering if those
[09:42] <tsdgeos> Dynamic exception type: N5boost16exception_detail10clone_implINS0_19error_info_injectorISt11logic_errorEEEE
[09:42] <tsdgeos> are real bad or not
[09:42] <tsdgeos> booo
[09:42] <tsdgeos> and you have to run tests in english
[09:42] <tsdgeos> testtools.matchers._impl.MismatchError: 'So' != 'Sound'
[09:43] <mzanetti> yes
[09:43] <mzanetti> und you have to set the display blank timeout to >= 5mins at least
[09:43] <mzanetti> and
[09:43] <mzanetti> :D
[09:43] <tsdgeos> ah you can do that better
[09:43] <tsdgeos> sudo powerd-cli display on
[09:43] <mzanetti> true
[09:44] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: this is the whole output of the failing test here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10386221/
[09:44] <mzanetti> I do have that boost thing too
[09:45] <tsdgeos> so changing the scope failed
[09:46] <tsdgeos> that was supposed to be fixed after i made it always be a multiple of 10
[09:46] <tsdgeos> can you actually reproduce it?
[09:48] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: reproduce in what sense?
[09:48] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: running ap multiple times?
[09:48] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: run it more than once and always fails
[09:48] <mzanetti> yes, it keeps failing here
[09:48] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: and can you see it dragging the scope but failing to change?
[09:50] <mzanetti> need to retry... the logs are from yesterday before I EOD'd
[09:50] <mzanetti> but I ran this 4 times at least and it failed with the same
[09:53] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: it wants to flick to the right, but seems its not strong enough
[09:54] <mzanetti> and bounces back
[09:58] <tsdgeos> and this is why we all dislike autopilot
[09:58] <tsdgeos> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10386421/
[09:59] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: what is werid is that only one is failing?
[09:59] <tsdgeos> we have more tests that do move from scope to scope
[09:59] <tsdgeos> and those work for you?
[10:02] <tsdgeos> what i don't understand is why unity8-dash is at 100% cpu while running that test
[10:02] <tsdgeos> makes no sense
[10:06] <tsdgeos> mzanetti: what silo is it that the landing is on?
[10:07] <Cimi> https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-api-team/unity8/scopes-active-depends-on-screen-rtm/+merge/250606
[10:08] <Cimi> do we really need those tweaks inside apps to save battery?
[10:08] <Cimi> or it's just for the dash because it is a particular app?
[10:08] <Cimi> (other apps using location for example will suspend)
[10:09] <Cimi> I am wondering if we need this approach or it should be done by app lifecycle
[10:12] <tsdgeos> pstolowski: pete-woods: ↑↑↑↑↑
[10:13] <pete-woods> Cimi: this is specific to the dash. apps are put to sleep by the lifecycle management, the dash is not, as it is a focal point for middleware comms between the scopes
[10:14] <pete-woods> we already excluded the dash from app lifecycle management, as it is simply not a regular app
[10:14] <pete-woods> and putting it to sleep broke all kinds of things in the middleware
[11:00] <greyback> mzanetti: could I trouble you for a quick review: https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/qtmir/fix-lifecycle-exempt-keeps-wakelock/+merge/250459
[11:01] <mzanetti> greyback: ack, putting it on my list. hipefully I'll get to it today
[11:01] <greyback> thanks
[12:34] <dandrader> tsdgeos, could you review my latests commits to https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/qtubuntu/port-to-mirclient/+merge/245164 and re-approve + top approve if it's all fine?
[12:35] <greyback> dandrader: with the feature freeze in place, we've to wait for a while more sadly
[12:35] <greyback> to land it
[13:38] <tsdgeos> dandrader_: yep, i had the tab open to review
[13:38] <tsdgeos> doing now
[13:42] <dandrader_> tsdgeos, thans
[13:42] <dandrader_> +k
[14:21] <mterry> mzanetti, thanks for chasing down design for the lockscreen swipe thing
[14:22] <mzanetti> mterry: no prob
[14:22] <mterry> mzanetti, I saw the "bug fix only" email go by -- does that affect your in-flight unity8 landing?
[14:27] <tsdgeos> mterry: it's all bug fixing
[14:27] <mterry> tsdgeos, eh...  I wouldn't have described -refactor like that unless I was trying to pass a filter
[14:28] <mterry> tsdgeos, although it does happen to contain a few bug fixes I fixed along the way
[14:28] <mterry> tsdgeos, it just fixes them partly by doing an enormous refactor  :)
[14:28] <tsdgeos> see, it is bugfixing :D
[14:38] <tsdgeos> dandrader: the only change is that you're calling
[14:38] <tsdgeos>  mir_wait_for(mir_surface_set_state(d->surface, qtWindowStateToMirSurfaceState(d->state)));
[14:38] <tsdgeos> instead of
[14:38] <tsdgeos> setWindowState(Qt::WindowNoState);
[14:38] <tsdgeos> correcT?
[14:39] <dandrader> tsdgeos, yeah, that's the core of it
[15:06] <tsdgeos> dandrader: what was the bug that was being fixed?
[15:07] <dandrader> tsdgeos, fullscreen apps were not getting started as fullscreen, such as camera-app and media-player
[15:08] <tsdgeos> k
[15:08] <dandrader> tsdgeos because setVisible(true) was setting then back to "windowed"
[15:10] <tsdgeos> dandrader: yep i understan the issue wanted to check if was fixed too :)
[15:51] <elopio> tsdgeos: mzanetti: is there something we can do to help you with the failed autopilot tests?
[15:51] <elopio> last time I looked was with paulliu's branch, a week ago. And it got 3 good runs in a row.
[15:51] <tsdgeos> elopio: make CI have the same results i have locally ^_^
[15:52] <tsdgeos> elopio: sure, last week all was fine
[15:52] <mzanetti> tsdgeos: define "locally"
[15:52] <mzanetti> germany or spain?
[15:52] <mzanetti> :P
[15:52] <tsdgeos> two or three days ago it decided to go bezerk again and fail like crazy
[15:53] <elopio> tsdgeos: so if you flash, and then run with phablet-test-run, you still get green?
[15:54] <tsdgeos> elopio: yes
[15:55] <elopio> tsdgeos: and devel-proposed, the same device as jenkins is using??
[15:55] <tsdgeos> elopio: yes
[15:56] <elopio> tsdgeos: ok, can you report a bug for ci so they investigate what their lab is doing differently?
[15:56] <tsdgeos> elopio: tbh it's not even CI
[15:56] <tsdgeos> elopio: mzanetti and i were getting different results
[15:56] <tsdgeos> and both had the same hardware and version too
[15:57] <tsdgeos> and not ocasional results, it failed always for him and always worked for me
[15:57] <elopio> tsdgeos: even last week when jenkins was all green?
[15:57] <tsdgeos> last week is a long time ago
[15:57] <tsdgeos> this was today :)
[15:58] <Saviq> mzanetti, thanks for clearing up our merge queue
[15:58] <mzanetti> np
[15:59] <elopio> so we need more information to see if it's a lab issue, mzanetti's phone issue, a problem with the tests, or a problem with one of the things that were released recently.
[16:01] <tsdgeos> i spent all my morning on this and dindn't get any usable conclusion
[16:03] <elopio> tsdgeos: was that because you are missing more information about the failures? like logging, or videos of the run?
[16:04] <tsdgeos> elopio: that's probably because i'm not so fluent in autopilot nor in python
[16:15] <tsdgeos> mterry: did the refactor add new messages?¿
[16:16] <mterry> tsdgeos, messages?
[16:16] <tsdgeos> seems it adds Retry and tap to unlick
[16:16] <mterry> tsdgeos, oh...  it may have marked them translatable, but they aren't new
[16:16] <mterry> tsdgeos, a bug fix!  :)
[16:17] <mterry> tsdgeos, also, you can never unlick something
[16:17] <tsdgeos> mterry: the problem with the bugfix is that it forgot to renegerate the pot /:
[16:17] <mterry> tsdgeos, ugh.  Because I had forgotten I had actually fixed that  :-/
[16:17] <mterry> tsdgeos, also I hate our current pot-generation system
[16:18] <tsdgeos> we all do :)
[16:19] <mterry> tsdgeos, well I guess they can remain untranslated until the next pot-generation
[16:19] <tsdgeos> i guess
[16:28] <tsdgeos> elopio: see, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-deb-autopilot-runner-vivid-mako/1334/? 25 failures
[16:28] <tsdgeos> which is like, i get all those to pass here
[16:31] <tsdgeos> bbiam
[16:45] <tsdgeos> greyback: do you mind if i put https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/unity-api/surfaceSizerCallback/+merge/231698 and https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/qtmir/initialSurfaceGeometry/+merge/231725 to WIP as https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/unity8/initialSurfaceGeometry/+merge/231726 is to clear a bit the dashboard/queue?
[16:45] <greyback> tsdgeos: go ahead
[16:46] <tsdgeos> tx :)
[16:47] <tsdgeos> MacSlow: waiting for your fix on https://code.launchpad.net/~macslow/unity8/unbreak-notification-positioning-fix-1422711/+merge/249998
[16:56] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, the jenkins-failure are all in non-notification parts and the open issues I addressed... did I not?
[16:56] <tsdgeos> MacSlow: you said you'd remove some code, i'm waiting for you to remove it :)
[16:57] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, doh.... sorry... onc sec
[17:04] <MacSlow> tsdgeos, change/fix pushed
[17:05] <tsdgeos> oki
[17:08] <elopio> tsdgeos: what I see there is that the greeter failed to swipe.
[17:09] <elopio> AssertionError: Greeter cover page still up after 10s
[17:10] <elopio> also there seems to be problems with the test apps, but it's likely related to swiping from the right too.
[17:10] <elopio> tsdgeos: have you used tvr?
[17:10] <elopio> trv
[17:12] <elopio> mzanetti: on your device, do you see problems with the greeter too?
[17:12] <tsdgeos> elopio: trv?
[17:12] <elopio> tsdgeos: jenkins attaches a subunit file as an artifact.
[17:13] <elopio> with trv you can see the subunit file. It's a lot easier to understand the results with it.
[17:13] <elopio> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkLtbmQxXYc
[17:13] <elopio> the video description has the ppa and stuff to install it.
[17:14] <mzanetti> elopio: no, all other tests passed fine here
[17:14] <mzanetti> elopio: there was one which I had to run a second time. but then it passed
[17:14] <tsdgeos> elopio: ok, i'll investigate tomorrow
[17:14]  * tsdgeos EOD
[17:14] <tsdgeos> s
[17:26] <pete-woods> Saviq: hi, was trying to run unity8-dash from trunk on 14.10 (after having built the few deps like new scopes)
[17:26] <pete-woods> and wondered if you might know what was going wrong here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10392237/
[17:27] <pete-woods> it kinda looks like it can't see the unity8 share directory
[17:27] <pete-woods> but I don't know why that would happen
[17:29]  * pete-woods guesses someone is on holiday given the normally Clint Eastwood -like response times of pinging you
[17:33] <pete-woods> perhaps need some updated version of the SDK I guess
[17:36] <pete-woods> obviously something screwy is going on with the PageHeader class
[17:37] <pete-woods> guess it's time to install a vivid VM
[17:39]  * pete-woods builds slightly older version
[19:18] <josharenson> mterry: so I have unity8 kind of running on my spare laptop, but there are two issues.. The mouse/touchscreen doesn't work, and I can't find the lightdm.conf file to edit.. do I need to create it?
[20:10] <mterry> josharenson, yeah you may have to create it
[20:10] <mterry> josharenson, /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[20:10] <mterry> josharenson, and as for mouse, you enabled the hardware mouse?
[20:11] <josharenson> mterry: only line is type=unity?
[20:11] <mterry> josharenson, uh, one moment
[20:11] <josharenson> mterry: hadn't yet
[20:11] <mterry> josharenson, put a [SeatDefaults] line before that
[20:11] <mterry> josharenson, once you do, you should have a mouse again
[20:11] <josharenson> mterry: ack
[20:11] <mterry> josharenson, I mean, once you enable the hardware mouse that is
[20:11] <josharenson> sure sure
[20:11] <josharenson> thanks
[20:26] <josharenson> mterry: hummm, now I select unity8 session at the greeter, type my pw, and it just hangs
[20:27] <mterry> josharenson, that's.. worse
[20:27] <josharenson> mterry: nothing interesting in the unity8 log, let me check usc
[20:28] <josharenson> mterry: ah it doesnt like my hw cursor argument, probably a typo?
[20:29] <mterry> josharenson, $ cat /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor.sleep
[20:29] <mterry> #!/bin/sh
[20:29] <mterry> sleep .1
[20:29] <mterry> exec /usr/sbin/unity-system-compositor --disable-inactivity-policy=true --on-fatal-error-abort --enable-hardware-cursor=true $@
[20:34] <josharenson> mterry: my file looked exactly like that, but the log says "Failed to parse command line options: option --cursor cannot be specified more than once" quadruple checking for typos
[20:35] <mterry> josharenson, huh...
[20:35] <mterry> josharenson, you have archive versions of usc and friends?
[20:36] <mterry> josharenson, what's in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/ ?
[20:37] <josharenson> mterry: well there were weird issues installing unity8, I had to manually install/build some deps to get it to work.... but  xserver-xorg-xmir and unity8-desktop-session-mir came from archive
[20:37]  * josharenson checks
[20:38] <mterry> josharenson, also check unity-system-compositor
[20:39] <josharenson> mterry: greeter-wrapper, guest-wrapper, ubuntu.conf, unity-greeter.conf, xserver-command.conf, unity8.conf
[20:39] <josharenson> usc _is_ installed
[20:40] <josharenson> might not be starting though
[20:40] <mterry> josharenson, those are the same files I have, so good.
[20:40] <mterry> josharenson, and USC is archive version/
[20:40] <mterry> ?
[20:40] <josharenson> mterry: definitely  from archive
[20:40] <mterry> josharenson, nothing suspicious in /var/log/lightdm/unity-system-compositor.log?
[20:40] <mterry> josharenson, or ~/.cache/upstart/unity8.log
[20:41]  * josharenson clears logs and tries again, did weird things and they logs are lying
[20:44] <josharenson> mterry: uploading the log, there is some wonky stuff right where you'd expect (like after user authorization)
[20:49] <josharenson> mterry: sorry had to get creative to get the log online http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10395793/
[20:51] <mterry> josharenson, huh ok, so that's lightdm.log and it shows USC crashing or early-exiting or something
[20:51] <mterry> josharenson, what does unity-system-compositor.log show?
[20:52] <josharenson> oh I'm dumb... usc log says same thing about bad args... when I remove the hardware cursor arg, unity8 starts, but as expected, I can't click anything
[20:52] <josharenson> mterry: ^
[20:52] <mterry> josharenson, I have 0.0.5+15.04.20150209-0ubuntu1 of USC
[20:54] <josharenson> mterry: I have the same
[20:54] <mterry> josharenson, humph
[20:54] <josharenson> mterry: how did you install unity8? I built it from trunk yesterday... relevant?
[20:55] <mterry> josharenson, I doubt it?  This seems to be a USC error, not a unity8 one
[20:55] <mterry> josharenson, (my u8 was from archive)
[20:55] <josharenson> mterry:  thought so.... when I tried installing from archive, I started getting weird dep issues, let me try rearranging my arguments to usc... can't hurt
[20:57] <josharenson> mterry: I'll keep messing with it, I'll let you know if anything interesting happens... I hate when nothing works
[20:58] <mterry> josharenson, yeah sorry  :(
[20:58] <josharenson> mterry: np, thanks for the help so far
[20:58] <mterry> josharenson, but unity-greeter and unity7 work?
[20:59] <mterry> josharenson, oh no, they wouldn't...  usc is crashing
[20:59] <mterry> well, maybe they work in a fallback mode lightdm has for usc?  I forget what usc does in that case
[20:59] <josharenson> mterry: uhhh works fine
[20:59] <josharenson> let me see whats running
[21:00] <mterry> josharenson, ok cool.  makes sense.  It's just the pure Mir ones that can't work because no USC
[21:00] <josharenson> mterry: something called unity-fallback- is running
[21:00] <josharenson> and obviously X
[21:01] <mterry> josharenson, yeah OK.  So lightdm fell back to an X session I guess. I'm not familiar with the phrase unity-fallback but OK
[21:01] <josharenson> mterry: me either... just showed up in `ps`
[21:34] <dandrader> mterry, I'm getting two failing tests in tst_Shell.qml, int trunk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10396487/
[21:34] <dandrader> mterry, do you get the same?
[21:34] <mterry> dandrader, hrm
[21:34] <mterry> dandrader, probably, let me check
[21:40] <mterry> dandrader, huh, everything passed with both xvfbtestShell and testShell
[21:40] <mterry> dandrader, maybe it's just flaky -- do you get reliably?
[21:40] <mterry> *it
[21:40] <dandrader> yep
[21:41] <dandrader> maybe my trunk or not clean or something
[21:41] <dandrader> let me double check things
[21:41] <dandrader> s/or not/is not
[21:45] <mterry> dandrader, I'll clean my build and try again too
[21:48] <dandrader> mterry, it still fails in exactly the same way... :/
[21:48] <dandrader> mterry, well, will investigate it tomorrow. EOD
[23:56] <josharenson> mterry: if you are still around http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/10398186/
[23:56] <josharenson> the dependency error I get when trying to install unity8-desktop-session-mir
[23:56] <josharenson> this is off a fresh install
[23:56] <mterry> josharenson, hi
[23:56] <mterry> huh
[23:57] <mterry> josharenson, to get more information out of that, try sudo apt-get install unity8
[23:57] <josharenson> unmet deps: qtdeclartive5-ubuntu-web-plugin
[23:57] <josharenson> and installing that give another dep error
[23:58] <josharenson> mterry: only way I managed to get it working before was to manually install most of the deps
[23:58]  * josharenson thinks back to having to build things from source w/o any dependency managment
[23:59] <mterry> josharenson, that way lies madness!


[02:53] <jjohansen> JayF: I dug into the oneiric-lts-backport kernel and the fix is not there, I am not sure what you are seeing
[04:20] <infinity> jjohansen: I'm guessing he was looking at sw_perf_event_destroy instead of perf_swevent_init?  Maybe?
[04:20] <infinity> jjohansen: Yeah, he referenced line 5433, which is in the declaration of the previous function.
[04:21] <infinity> JayF: ^^
[04:30] <jjohansen> yeah
[12:24] <bjf> smb, bug 1164739
[12:24] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1164739 in linux (Ubuntu Quantal) "Can not mount cephfs in VM from cloud image" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1164739
[12:24] <bjf> smb, do we need to verify it or is it trivial enough to just mark it verified ?
[12:25] <bjf> smb, can you verify or have someone verify it?
[12:29] <henrix> bjf: iirc smb is off today
[12:30] <rtg_> bjf, try hassling james Hunt. I think he's the ceph cloud dude
[12:33] <bjf> jodh, ^ ?
[12:34] <jodh> bjf/rtg_: you have the wrong guy. I've never used ceph :)
[12:36] <bjf> jodh, interested in learning ? :-)
[12:37] <bjf> jodh, i think rtg probably meant james page
[12:43]  * cking takes a short break, back in 15
[13:08] <rtg_> henrix, cking: bouncing gomeisa for kernel update
[13:08] <cking> rtg_, ack
[13:08] <rtg_> when henrix build is done
[13:08] <henrix> rtg_: can you wait 5 mins? just finishing a build
[13:09] <henrix> rtg_: thanks, shouldn't take long
[13:13] <henrix> rtg_: gomeisa is now free
[14:27] <tseliot> apw: are you around?
[14:27] <apw> tseliot, sort of, not so good today
[14:42] <psivaa> bjf, just managed to saucy jobs for kernel regression tests
[14:42] <psivaa> bjf, there is this, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5674186/ with 3.9.0-2.6 in almost all the saucy regression kernel tests.
[14:44] <rtg_> jjohansen, is that your test ? ^^
[14:45] <stgraber> cking: heya. You may want to s/14.10/13.10/ in your lttng blog post :)
[14:46] <stgraber> (spotted by the #lttng guys)
[14:46] <cking> stgraber, bah, I'm in a time machine mode again
[14:46] <cking> thanks :-)
[14:46] <stgraber> ;)
[14:47] <bjf> psiva, let me look. i may have to update a file on my end for saucy
[14:48] <psivaa> bjf: ack
[15:11] <bjf> psivaa, jjohansen indeed, this looks like my issue
[15:12] <psivaa> bjf: ack
[15:26] <bjf> psiva, just sent out a new release email that should address this issue.
[15:39] <psivaa> bjf: ack, got it. thanks
[15:52] <JayF> infinity: TYVM for that update. Do you have a better link for a full patch than what I was looking at then so I can ensure my kernel is properly patched?
[16:01]  * henrix -> back in 15
[16:40] <rbasak> ogasawara: any objection to documenting the DKMS situation with the HWE stack on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack? Or would you prefer that somewhere else? It would be nice to have something to point bug reporters to.
[16:42] <ogasawara> rbasak: you mean about the point I mentioned for trying to ensure we test DKMS packages against the HWE stacks
[16:43] <ogasawara> rbasak: I'm leaning towards that residing somewhere else at the moment, as it's not a hardened policy/procedure
[16:43] <ogasawara> rbasak: I'm thinking it'll reside in a blueprint somewhere first, just not sure which one yet
[16:43] <ogasawara> rbasak: likely as a work item for me
[16:43] <rbasak> ogasawara: I'm not sure. I'm prompted by a bug report for a DKMS build failure on an HWE stack. I'd just like to document that some failures are known to exist right now, and that users who don't need the HWE stack but got it by default, and who need a particular DKMS module that is failing can use the old kernel for now.
[16:44] <rbasak> A bug tag might be useful too. How about hwe-dkms?
[16:44] <ogasawara> rbasak: definitely a meaningful tag to use across those types of DKMS bugs would be good
[16:45] <ogasawara> rbasak: hwe-dkms works for me
[16:46] <ogasawara> rbasak: let me give some more thought about where to document the use of that though and how to effectively communicate to anyone affected
[16:46] <rbasak> ogasawara: OK. Thanks!
[16:49] <rtg_> rbasak, are there reasons we shouldn't carry some of these packages in the kernel ? (though I'm not interested in binary blobs)
[16:50] <rbasak> rtg_: I think there are individual reasons for them not being in the upstream kernel. open-vm-tools is in multiverse, for example.
[16:51] <rtg_> rbasak, no, I meant in _our_ kernel tree.
[16:51] <ogasawara> rtg_: I'd prefer out kernel not becoming a dumping ground for drivers which have the ability to be DKMS'ified
[16:52] <rbasak> rtg_: what I mean is that if they aren't upstream, then the same reason might apply for not wanting them in our tree.
[16:52] <rtg_> ogasawara, I'm not implying we should take everything, but there are a couple of server drivers that might be of benefit.
[16:52] <ogasawara> rtg_: and if we (ie I) can get the proper QA in place so that DKMS package maintainers are notified of any breakage, it would have the same affect
[16:53] <rbasak> And for the ones that are not in main, would that cause an additional maintenance burden?
[16:53] <rtg_> dkms has the side effect of requiring compilers and such, something that many server operators are not fond of.
[16:57] <rbasak> openvswitch is probably the module that we care about the most. I'll ask jamespage about it.
[17:04] <rtg_> rbasak, it also solves the backport issue with the LTS kernels
[17:06] <rbasak> rtg_: it's around the same amount of work though, right? Either the DKMS package is forward-ported or someone finds upstream support and backports it, or your team does it by maintaining our tree?
[17:07]  * henrix -> eow
[17:07] <rtg_> rbasak, I'm kind of assuming its a one-time integration effort per release. for example, once done for saucy then the backport is free.
[17:07] <rtg_> rbasak, I'm only proposing this for high value, slow moving targets.
[17:08] <rtg_> hyper-v doesn't fall into taht category :)
[17:08] <rbasak> :)
[17:08] <rbasak> I'm guessing openvswitch does though. jamespage will know better.
[17:09] <rbasak> I'm probably just an extra cook to spoil this broth though. I should step out and let jamespage discuss it here. I've updated him in #ubuntu-server since he's not on this channel, and I'll step out now. Thanks for discussing this!
[17:24]  * rtg_ should never let LKML get to over 5500+ unread emails
[17:47]  * rtg_ -> lunch
[20:48]  * rtg_ -> EOW
[21:19] <sscorrea> /echo $version


[08:41] <sbeattie> davmor2: fair warning, I just committed a patch to the dl-ubuntu-test-iso script (at ara's request) that prefers the config file to be ~/.dl-ubuntu-test-iso rather than $HOME/iso/iso.cfg
[08:41] <ara> sbeattie: thanks steve!
[08:41] <davmor2> sbeattie: Ta but I use the default anyway :)
[08:42] <sbeattie> ah, cool, good to know.
[08:43] <davmor2> sbeattie: the only time I was using the ~/.... was when my slowband issue was in effect then it was slightly quick to dl from schwuk
[08:44] <ara> davmor2, sbeattie: is there a default?
[08:44] <ara> davmor2, sbeattie: where is it?
[08:45] <davmor2> ara: it's built into the script
[08:45] <ara> davmor2: ok, thanks
[08:45] <ara> davmor2: so you download every possible iso?
[08:45] <davmor2> ara: it's at the bottom
[08:46] <sbeattie> actually, they're all set at the top of the script.
[08:46] <ara> davmor2: ah, you edit the script, don't you?
[08:46] <davmor2> ara: I dl everything that the script is written for yes
[08:46] <ara> davmor2: ok
[08:46] <sbeattie> however, the provided dl-ubuntu-test-iso.sample-cfg should also cause it to behave in exactly the same way.
[08:46] <ara> davmor2: about the reboot icon after update in jaunty, is a known issue: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/318409
[08:46] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 318409 in update-notifier "[jaunty] Reboot icon after kernel upgrade doesn't reboot" [High,Incomplete]
[08:47] <davmor2> sbeattie: I thought that was just the options on what to dl and the list at the bottom was the bit that actually did the downloading
[08:48] <davmor2> ara: cool it's just it only seem to happen once in a while which is what was throwing me with it :)
[08:49] <sbeattie> davmor2: they're all set at the top, overridden by the command line options given to getopt, reported to stdout if it's not told to be quiet, and then the get lines do the actual work.
[08:50] <sbeattie> but anyway, if you're happy with the defaults, that's good to know, too.
[08:53] <davmor2> sbeattie: Ah right with you now.  Out of interest why do we still have jeos and gobuntu get lines listed, being as jeos is now on the server cd and "free software install" has replaced gobuntu?
[08:55] <sbeattie> they still exist for hardy, though I don't they'll be respun again. I'll rip 'em out of the default.
[08:56] <davmor2> sbeattie: the only ones current supported for hardy is ubuntu and server they are having a debate about kubuntu at the moment :)
[09:29] <davmor2> Good Morning by the way guys
[09:46] <sbeattie> heh, I suppose it is morning. I really should get to bed. ${APPROPRIATE_TIME_OF_DAY_GREETING} to you all.
[09:47] <ara> sbeattie: good night!
[09:49] <davmor2> sbeattie: what time is it there?
[09:57] <ara> davmor2: around 1am
[10:46] <davmor2> brb
[12:04] <ara> davmor2: thanks for updating the application template
[12:05] <davmor2> ara: just check through it I think it right
[12:05] <ara> davmor2: ok, I will have a look
[12:06] <davmor2> ara: also I'm guessing there should be a space after AppImage but I could be wrong
[12:07] <ara> davmor2: I think it would work either way, wouldn't it?
[12:07] <davmor2> no idea I haven't tried it
[12:07] <davmor2> schwuk: ^
[12:34] <davmor2> ara, schwuk: is this script in place dude look at http://testcases.qa.ubuntu.com/Applications/Calculator neither way seems to work
[12:40] <schwuk> davmor2: re-check that page :)
[12:40] <davmor2> schwuk: what was it?
[12:41] <schwuk> davmor2: <<AppImage(gcalc)>>
[12:42] <schwuk> davmor2: you forgot the brackets, and the .png isn't needed.
[12:44] <davmor2> ah cool thank you :)
[14:28] <davmor2> Dave Murphy: You know the System Testing in Jaunty should it play a sound when it say Do you hear a sound?
[14:39] <ara> davmor2: have you click on the "Test" button?
[15:04] <davmor2> ara: yeap
[15:05] <ara> davmor2: and you don't get any sound?
[15:05] <davmor2> ara: I also know that the sound system works
[15:05] <davmor2> ara: no sound
[15:05] <ara> davmor2: then file a bug in checkbox package in Jaunty :-)
[15:06] <davmor2> ta
[15:15] <davmor2> ara: How bizarre not a bug in checkbox after all.  Sound works at login and then disappears
[15:15] <ara> davmor2: weird, indeed
[15:20] <davmor2> I'll try a fresh install and see if it is still the same
[16:19] <cgregan> heno: ping
[16:19] <cgregan> hmm
[16:23] <cgregan> ara: ping
[16:25] <ara> cgregan: pong
[16:26] <cgregan> cr3?
[16:26] <cgregan> ara!
[16:26] <ara> cgregan: did you feel lonely?
[16:26] <ara> cgregan: ;-)
[16:27] <cgregan> I did
[16:27] <cgregan> :-)
[16:27] <cgregan> Thanks...for the interview...BTW. It really cemented my opinion of Javier and I extended an offer
[16:27] <ara> great
[16:28] <cgregan> I appreciate the help with dev knowledge
[16:28] <cgregan> Also...my main reason for pinging....is there a wiki for the Oxford sprint?
[16:28] <cgregan> I want to arrange all the travel
[16:28] <ara> yes, there is, hold on a sec
[16:28] <cgregan> thanks
[16:30] <cr3> cgregan: hiya
[16:31] <cgregan> cr3: hello....I managed to get my info from ara. Thanks!
[16:31] <cr3> cgregan: ara's da man! :)
[16:32] <cgregan> :-)
[16:38] <davmor2> cr3: I'm pretty sure she isn't :D
[16:41] <ara> who knows...


[08:58] <kim0> Morning everyone
[14:19] <SpamapS> hrm.. laying around w/ ensemble.. it seems like hooks on two machines in a service are being triggered for eachothers' events
[14:19] <SpamapS> s/laying/playing/ :p
[14:24] <niemeyer> Good morning!
[14:25] <SpamapS> niemeyer: hello there, I have a very interesting situation that I'm trying to debug..
[14:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Cool, let's see
[14:25] <SpamapS> which may be interrupted by my 20 month old wakign up :-P
[14:26] <SpamapS> niemeyer: basically, I am seeing the data from demo-wiki/2's relationship when I run 'relation-get' on demo-wiki/1
[14:27] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Hmm
[14:27] <SpamapS> niemeyer: its as if the modified state is getting propagated to all service units
[14:27] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I think I have a reproducible test case
[14:27] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Ah, that's awesome
[14:28] <SpamapS> btw, debug-hooks is *amazing*
[14:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Is there a chance I could get access to the environment's zk machine?
[14:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Just to have a look at the state
[14:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It's nice isn't it
[14:29] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Feels like gdb for formulas :)
[14:30] <SpamapS> totally
[14:30] <SpamapS> niemeyer: I think this is easily reproducible w/ the example formulas
[14:30] <SpamapS> trying that right now
[14:30] <niemeyer> Cool
[14:30] <niemeyer> Let me know the steps and I'll run through it
[14:38] <SpamapS> ahh ok so its not exposed by the example formulas because the example mysql formula sends the same user/pass to all service units in the relation
[14:40] <SpamapS> ok so here's where I may just not understand relation-set and relation-get ...
[14:41] <SpamapS> I thought that relation-set and relation-get were each reading/writing into an area unique to the two service units...
[14:42] <SpamapS> so if   mysql/0 relation-set's with ENSEMBLE_REMOTE_UNIT=wordpress/1 .. thats a set of data unique to wordpress/1 and mysql/0's relationship
[14:43] <SpamapS> niemeyer: ^^ is my assumption false?
[14:43] <SpamapS> its been a while since I read the spec
[14:44] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It's no
[14:44] <niemeyer> t
[14:45] <SpamapS> so that confuses me then as to how the example mysql formula can work.. as it exits if the database exists
[14:45] <SpamapS> without ever having done a relation-set
[14:45] <niemeyer> SpamapS: If you don't provide additional arguments, and do a relation-set with a=b, that's specific to the involved units only
[14:48] <SpamapS> niemeyer: ok, so the steps to reproduce what I'm seeing as wrong behavior are as follows:
[14:49] <SpamapS> bzr branch lp:principia-tools && cd principia-tools && scripts/getall && tests/mediawiki.sh
[14:49] <SpamapS> niemeyer: this assumes a bootstrapped environment
[14:50] <SpamapS> niemeyer: the failure is that both demo-wiki's will receive eachothers' usernames in db-relation-changed at some point
[14:50] <SpamapS> causing them to fail
[14:50] <SpamapS> note that this wil spawn about 7 machines. ;)
[14:50] <SpamapS> you can probably reduce it down by removing the memcached stuff
[14:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: No worries.. I'll go through it in a moment
[14:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Nah, it'll be nice to see it churning ;)
[14:51] <SpamapS> niemeyer: much appreciated. I'll be in and out today, as its a U.S. holiday, but this one has been *killing me* this weekend. ;)
[14:51] <SpamapS> so I'll check in as much as possible
[14:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Ouch, sorry to hear it.. we'll get whatever is happening fixed
[14:52] <SpamapS> I'm kind of hoping whats broken is my assumptions.
[14:52] <SpamapS> I'm afraid I've churned a bit on it so the formulas are kind of ugly at the moment. :-P
[14:58] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Your basic assumption is sane/right, at least
[15:27] <SpamapS> on a side note... I wonder if we should make an environment config option to keep from putting all the aws machines' host keys in .ssh/known_hosts ...
[15:27] <SpamapS> I've spun up and down enough nodes, I get conflicts about 1 in 20
[15:43] <kim0> Any way to remove "Front Page" from first line of https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/FrontPage :)
[15:48] <koolhead17> replace it with startpage
[15:48] <koolhead17> :)
[15:48] <koolhead17> hey hazmat niemeyer obino
[15:50] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, feels like we should do something on that area indeed
[15:50] <SpamapS> niemeyer: so if I were following the example formulas that exist now, I would believe that one relation-set feeds all units in a service.
[15:50] <niemeyer> koolhead17: Hey there!
[15:51] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Why?
[15:51] <SpamapS> niemeyer: because db-relation-changed in the mysql formula only ever runs relation-set once per service
[15:51] <SpamapS> niemeyer: once the database has been created and relation-set has been run, it just silently exits
[15:51] <SpamapS> er.. db-relation-joined actually
[15:52] <SpamapS> niemeyer: and in fact, this works beautifully, properly feeding that data to all units of wordpress when related
[15:54] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I'm not sure I understand what you're saying
[15:54] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Looking at db-relation-joined, why would it run only once per service?
[15:55] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Oh, hmm, I think I see what you mean
[15:56] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Feels like there's something catchy there indeed
[15:57] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The database doesn't have to be created, but the relation settings should be piped through
[16:00] <SpamapS> niemeyer: its as if relation-set is a broadcast channel
[16:00] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Yeah, this is certainly bogus
[16:01] <SpamapS> it didn't break until I added ip restrictions to the grants in the principia mysql formula
[16:01] <niemeyer> SpamapS: It must be something minor, though.. I'm sure the concept was well understood the whole time
[16:01] <niemeyer> SpamapS: We even have a parameter on relation-set when one wants to change info on a separate relation unit, for instance
[16:02] <SpamapS> right
[16:02] <SpamapS> in fact, I wonder if I explicitly state the remote unit if this goes away
[16:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: No, the default remote unit is the one you expect
[16:03] <niemeyer> SpamapS: E.g. db-relation-joined will set the default remote unit to the joining unit
[16:06] <SpamapS> actually, relation-set doesn't take a unit
[16:07] <SpamapS> not from the cli options at least
[16:08] <kim0> hmm so after the principia changes, what should I branch to work on a new formula
[16:09] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Aw.. man, I think I'm doing a big confusion..
[16:09] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I'm mixing relation-get and relation-set
[16:10] <niemeyer> SpamapS: relation-get is the one that will look at the remote unit's data
[16:10] <niemeyer> SpamapS: relation-set is always local
[16:11] <niemeyer> SpamapS: So it changes the settings of "self", if you see what I mean
[16:12] <niemeyer> SpamapS: and the other units will be notified of the change
[16:12] <niemeyer> SpamapS: So it's working as intended, but not as I pointed out earlier
[16:14] <niemeyer> SpamapS: You can think of it the following way: every unit in a relation has bucket with their own settings.
[16:14] <niemeyer> SpamapS: relation-set always changes the local bucket
[16:14] <niemeyer> SpamapS: relation-get can retrieve settings from the bucket of any other unit within this relation, and defaults to the remote unit the event is running for
[16:16] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The documentation and examples may be helpful: https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs/formula.html#hook-tools
[16:18] <SpamapS> so I can't give each remote unit its own unique configuration? :(
[16:19] <SpamapS> bummer I was kind of excited to be able to restrict each username/password to each unit
[16:19] <SpamapS> but it makes perfect sense, and is easy to correct
[16:20] <SpamapS> the key "aha" btw, is "relation-set is always local"
[16:21] <SpamapS> niemeyer: well it takes away a tiny thing I was trying to do, but it simpliefies the formulas, so my :( is turned around to :)
[16:22] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Knowing that design, you actually can if you really want to
[16:23] <SpamapS> The idea was simply that the units could be isolated from one another for greater security
[16:23] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Ah, I see
[16:23] <SpamapS> but, there are other ways to achieve that
[16:23] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Right.. we have to consider further the security details intra-relations
[16:23] <SpamapS> it was, I was thinking, a target of opportunity.. not something I see as key to formulas working
[16:24] <SpamapS> I think given that the service units will be largely identical, its ok to treat them all as equals and just isolate the service from other services, not the units from eachother
[16:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Right, this is likely the initial direction we'll go into
[16:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: In some cases it may actually be important to know details from other relations as well
[16:25] <niemeyer> Sorry
[16:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: I mean from other units
[16:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: But, if we really want to, the current design doesn't make it impossible to do the isolation you mention
[16:25] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Internally, that is
[16:26] <SpamapS> sure, right now though, being able to assume that there is only one bucket per relation-set, allows me to delete a lot of code :)
[16:26] <niemeyer> SpamapS: The conventions we build on it might make it hard, though.  IOW, people may well start depending on the fact they can see other unit's settings in useful cases.
[16:26] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sweet, that sounds like a good feature then ;)
[16:27]  * SpamapS <heart> /^-/ in diffs
[16:28] <niemeyer> +1
[16:35]  * niemeyer lunch!
[16:52] <SpamapS> ahh yes, deleting code to make things work is always refreshing
[16:55] <SpamapS> kim0: nice job on the ensemble text. :)
[16:55] <kim0> SpamapS: oh cool !
[16:55] <kim0> SpamapS: thanks .. I could really use some tweak ups from a native speaker
[16:58] <kim0> SpamapS: is there a short couple of commands to branch principia and work on a new formula
[16:59] <kim0> if it's longish .. It's not urgent
[17:00]  * kim0 is taking a first shot at writing a new formula
[17:13] <SpamapS> kim0: I haven't gone through it with a fine toothed comb, but the bullt points portray what I think we all want to portray
[17:14]  * kim0 nods .. cool
[17:16] <kim0> n00b question, when I do ensemble add-relation mywiki mymemcached, assuming both mywiki and mymemcached have TWO service units deployed .. does Ensemble hook them up one memcache per mywiki, like I think it should ?
[17:21] <SpamapS> err
[17:21] <SpamapS> kim0: mywiki's units will all be related to mymemcached's units
[17:49]  * niemeyer waves
[17:56] <niemeyer> kim0: The documentation feels like going in a good direction, but I'm not sure the front page should hold that description
[17:56] <kim0> o/
[17:56] <kim0> shoot
[17:56] <kim0> what's your thinking
[17:57] <niemeyer> kim0: The feeling I have when opening the page is that I have to read a lot to grasp what Ensemble is
[17:58] <niemeyer> kim0: In a sense, it feels like the first two or three questions in the FAQ would be a good introduction: https://ensemble.ubuntu.com/docs/faq.html
[17:58] <kim0> there's a short version and a long one especially for that
[17:58] <kim0> hmm
[17:58] <kim0> perhaps there should be some graphic separating the two
[17:58] <niemeyer> Or, actually, the whole FAQ is probably the front page :-)
[17:58] <niemeyer> Or rather a seed fo rit
[17:58] <niemeyer> for it
[17:59] <kim0> niemeyer: I think the text looks a bit too much, just because it's a lot of text
[17:59] <SpamapS> niemeyer: ok the test I gave you before passes now.. :) thanks for clarifying, time to BBQ!
[17:59]  * SpamapS disappears
[17:59] <kim0> probably adding a nice graphic make it easier on the eye
[17:59] <niemeyer> SpamapS: Sweet, have fun there
[18:00] <kim0> but I don't think we should remove much of it ..
[18:00] <niemeyer> kim0: Well, it feels like a lot of text because it is a lot of text.. :-)
[18:01] <kim0> I could just leave titles for bullets, and link the denser text in another page of course
[18:01] <niemeyer> kim0: We can certainly keep some of it
[18:01] <kim0> like the 5 bullets, would just be 5 lines
[18:01] <kim0> with the longer version linked to
[18:01] <niemeyer> kim0: I actually like the points below
[18:02] <kim0> niemeyer: so what part should not be there ?
[18:02] <niemeyer> kim0: Perhaps the at-a-glance idea is that needs some love
[18:02] <niemeyer> kim0: Reading this, for instance:
[18:02] <niemeyer> """
[18:02] <niemeyer> Ensemble is a novel cloud orchestration framework. It lets you deploy, manage and scale software services on the cloud and soon physical servers. Ensemble uses "formulas" to capture the intelligence of managing deployments. If you want a piece of software on the cloud, "there's a formula for that!" The Ensemble community is working towards that goal!
[18:02] <niemeyer> """
[18:02] <niemeyer> kim0: It feels very hyped, but without any hints at all regarding what it *actually* does
[18:03] <niemeyer> kim0: I can replace Ensemble by any other configuration management product name, and it remains true
[18:03] <kim0> but that's what marketing is all about eh :)
[18:03] <niemeyer> kim0: I'm not a marketing guy
[18:03] <niemeyer> :)
[18:03] <kim0> mmm
[18:04] <niemeyer> kim0: I think we should take pieces of the FAQ and insert above as an introduction
[18:04] <kim0> niemeyer: well .. that paragraph will be replaced with whatever Gerry and everyone agrees on
[18:04] <kim0> to be the standard intro paragraph to Ensemble
[18:04] <kim0> this is just a placeholder
[18:04] <niemeyer> kim0: Absolutely, but it's live right now, and I'd like to have something nice there
[18:05] <niemeyer> kim0: What do you think of having our FAQ entries as an introduction, and maintaining the large paragraph there as a more in-depth look?
[18:05] <niemeyer> s/large paragraph/large section/
[18:06] <kim0> generall it's absolutely fine :)
[18:06] <kim0> ok maybe it's indeed too hype packed
[18:07] <kim0> k, I'll edit it
[18:07] <niemeyer> kim0: Thanks a lot
[18:08] <kim0> rock n roll
[19:28]  * niemeyer plays with packages
[19:28] <niemeyer> ... and everything seems to work.. sweet!
[20:25] <niemeyer> kim0: When are you planning to run the refactoring?
[20:26] <niemeyer> kim0: In the front page, that is
[20:26] <niemeyer> kim0: I want to put some basic information up regarding the packages
[20:26] <kim0> I'm held up in real life for a couple of hours
[20:26] <kim0> if you'd like to change something go ahead ..
[20:27] <kim0> I may not be able to change it before the morning
[20:27] <kim0> niemeyer: is that ok ?
[20:28] <niemeyer> kim0: Cool, no worries
[20:28] <kim0> okie great
[20:45] <niemeyer> kim0: Tweaked
[20:45] <niemeyer> kim0: Please let me know what you think
[20:45] <kim0> great .. thank you


[05:38] <kylem> bryce, tepsipakki, ok, got Xserver building & working against mesa 6.5.3, mind if i upload both?
[08:31] <bryce> kylem: please do
[08:31] <bryce> kylem: what did you have to change with xserver?
[11:02] <ubotu> New bug: #113003 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.20 (restricted) "Playing video in totem causes high I/O wait time" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/113003
[12:28] <ubotu> New bug: #107189 in xorg (main) "cairo gradient" [Low,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/107189
[02:15] <ubotu> New bug: #37764 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (main) "no tv-out support with this driver" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/37764
[06:47] <ubotu> New bug: #108411 in xorg (main) "Totem - fullscreen doesn't work in Feisty" [Low,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108411
[07:01] <ubotu> New bug: #117220 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (main) "X-Server crashes in Dual-Layout Mode" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117220
[10:25] <ubotu> New bug: #115275 in linux-source-2.6.20 (main) "Random kernel crash/freeze in Feisty (dup-of: 109643)" [Undecided,Rejected]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/115275


[12:35] <gary_poster> hey bac.  thank you for looking into the GA stuff.  As soon as you know if it will work for us, please let me know: the information (whatever the answer is) will unblock another task.
[12:36] <bac> gary_poster: yesterday afternoon i inserted the tracking code on uistage and could see it being served but no data was being collected.  chrome plugins showed that it was installed correctly.  that's all i knew at EOD yesterday
[12:36] <rick_h__> luca__: thanks, I see the images in the folder and submitting the category changes now.
[12:36] <bac> gary_poster: i now see that we are collecting data.
[12:36] <bac> 28 unique visitors for 31 visits
[12:36] <luca__> rick_h__: excellent, many thanks Rick
[12:37] <gary_poster> bac but that is for uistage only, right?  We now need to discover whether it will still work when deployed elsewhere?
[12:37] <bac> gary_poster: my next step is to deploy the charm with the same tracking code and see if data are collected from those deployments.  from further research i'm pretty confident the data will be seen.
[12:37] <bac> gary_poster: ack
[12:37] <gary_poster> yay, bac!
[12:38] <gary_poster> so...well, quick guichat call?
[12:38] <bac> gary_poster: i'm not sure yet what the time delay is for reporting.
[12:38] <gary_poster> ack
[12:39] <gary_poster> bac, could I run something past you on guichat?
[12:39] <bac> sadly their dashboard still shows the tracking slug is not deployed, which is misleading
[12:39] <bac> gary_poster: sue
[12:39] <bac> sure
[12:39] <bac> don't sue
[12:39] <gary_poster> sally
[12:42] <luca__> gary_poster: sorry to pester, I should of asked in IRC but would it be possible for you to answer my latest bundles question I sent in email? Really sorry!
[12:43] <gary_poster> luca__, yes reply started, will get out in a few
[12:44] <luca__> gary_poster: thank you!
[12:47] <gary_poster> luca__, could you give bac information on what the privacy policy banner thing needs to be?  If you have standard HTML/CSS that would be even better
[12:48] <gary_poster> and JS
[12:50] <luca__> gary_poster: the cookie thing?
[12:50] <gary_poster> luca__, yeah
[12:52] <luca__> bac: just asking the web guys what they have
[13:01] <bac> luca__: thanks
[13:02] <bac> "Error with ubuntu-doodoo" ... from uistage
[13:26] <hatch> morning
[13:27] <gary_poster> morning
[13:31] <luca__> gary_poster: in regards to the feedback stuff, I'll have to complete this early next week as I'm flying out to Norway in a few hours
[13:32] <gary_poster> luca__, ok cool, thanks for the heads up
[13:32] <gary_poster> enjoy :-)
[13:32] <hatch> jealous
[13:33] <BradCrittenden> gary_poster: good news.  i was able to modify the tracking slug and am seeing reports from me hitting a locally running juju gui.  i deployed 'mysql-bac' and see it in the real-time reports.  the data available in real time is minimal (urls and location) so it'll be interesting to see what shows up later
[13:34] <gary_poster> great, bac!  thank you for letting me know
[13:34] <bac> but it looks promising
[13:34] <gary_poster> excellent
[13:38] <benji> I have a small branch up for review: https://codereview.appspot.com/9981044
[13:47]  * gary_poster stepping out to son's school in about 8 minutes; back at about 20 or 25 past the next hour
[13:48] <gary_poster> in time for vitals discussion :-)
[13:54] <gary_poster> biab
[14:08] <abentley> orangesquad: uistage.jujucharms.com is failing to load the browser.  It says "Failed to load editorial content.\nCharm API server did not respond"
[14:08] <rick_h__> abentley: k, looking
[14:09] <abentley> That was at http://uistage.jujucharms.com/:flags:/browser_enabled/
[14:09] <rick_h__> abentley: http://uistage.jujucharms.com/:flags:/browser_enabled/ works for me
[14:10] <abentley> rick_h__: Worked this time, failed three times before.
[14:11] <rick_h__> abentley: :/ so we're wondering if this is a 504 on m.j.c issue?
[14:11] <sinzui> abentley, I don't see any issue with uistaging or m.jc myself
[14:11] <abentley> rick_h__: That seems plausible.
[14:12] <sinzui> abentley, is it possible there was a 504 from m.jc that broke your uistaging app? Reloading doesn't help?
[14:12] <abentley> sinzui: The first three times I loaded the page, I got a failure.  the fourth time, it worked.
[14:13] <sinzui> oh, maybe we got a restart of elasticsearch from the rt I filed?
[14:15] <abentley> sinzui: I think the simpler explanation is that we're still getting intermittent failures from m.j.c due to connection time-outs.
[14:16] <sinzui> abentley, I'll talk to webops about what the timeouts are between the services in the stack
[14:24] <sinzui> abentley, rick_h__ has evidence that interesting is not being caches and that there is a 3 second timeout between apache and elasticsearch
[14:25] <rick_h__> abentley: yea, I was checking the cache headers and I got a 504 when the req time on the back end was just a hair over 3s
[14:25] <rick_h__> abentley: and looking at the x-cache headers I'm not sold it's working right.
[14:27] <abentley> rick_h__: I see "Cache-control: max-age=0" in the headers, which would defeat caching.
[14:28] <sinzui> oops
[14:28] <rick_h__> abentley: looking, wonder if YUI auto adds that to the request.
[14:29] <rick_h__> hatch: ^ any inside knowledge there?
[14:29] <abentley> rick_h__: That might be from me hitting reload.  I was doing it manually.
[14:29] <sinzui> yep. I see that for every search I do
[14:29] <hatch> reading the backlog
[14:29] <rick_h__> abentley: sinzui ok, I'll file a bug and put it on the board to look at the requests going out and look at how to override that
[14:30] <abentley> rick_h__: Yeah, looks like that was my fault for hitting reload.
[14:30] <sinzui> thanks rick.
[14:30] <hatch> rick_h__: you wondering if yui auto adds cache-control to the request?
[14:30] <rick_h__> hatch: rgr
[14:31] <hatch> it doesn't
[14:31] <hatch> you are free to set your own headers though
[14:31] <rick_h__> hatch: ok yea, nvm. abentley thinks it was a reload force issue.
[14:31] <hatch> shouldn't that be allowed?
[14:31] <hatch> this sounds like a mjc issue
[14:32] <hatch> the user should be ble to reload and get a site within a second over and over and over
[14:32] <rick_h__> hatch: so mjc is trying to cache things but if the client says "give me new stuff" it should skip the cache and never use it
[14:32] <rick_h__> hatch: but by default, the stuff in interesting/search results/etc can't change but every 15min anyway
[14:32] <rick_h__> hatch: so we're just looking at the caching and if it's in effect/helping/etc.
[14:33] <hatch> ahhh ok
[14:33] <hatch> yeah that sounds like an issue on mjc side
[14:33] <rick_h__> hatch: but nvm, I'm looking now and I don't see the header added.
[14:33] <rick_h__> hatch: well, it's on both ends. the gui has to make the requests with good headers and mjc has to respond approporaitely
[14:33] <rick_h__> hatch: and by gui I mean the charmworld store class really
[14:34] <hatch> well yes, but mjc should be smart enough to return the cached version if it's still valid regardless of what the client requests
[14:34] <rick_h__> hatch: :P no, give the customer what they ask for
[14:34] <rick_h__> hatch: but anyway, we're all good.
[14:36] <abentley> rick_h__: One thing we probably should do is support ETags for charm/*/file/*  I see a lot of pointless icon retrievals.
[14:36] <rick_h__> abentley: k, sounds like a good plan
[15:16] <hatch> Makyo: which card did you just propose? so I can tag it
[15:16] <Makyo> hatch, oh, sorry, just a sec.
[15:17] <hatch> cool thx
[15:17] <Makyo> hatch, zoom to service if any...
[15:20] <hatch> Makyo: do you need a QA?
[15:21] <Makyo> hatch, yeah, but give me a sec to revert config.
[15:21] <hatch> hehe centroid
[15:21] <hatch> sounds like a video game
[15:22] <hatch> it's metroid's girlfriend
[15:22] <rick_h__> hatch: can you link me to the assert node thing you showed me yesterday?
[15:22] <Makyo> hatch, QA: add services, pan away from them, shift+0 to pan back.
[15:22] <hatch> rick_h__: google node.js assert
[15:22] <hatch> require('assert') it's part of the node core
[15:22] <rick_h__> hatch: thanks, was doing javascript and failed
[15:23] <hatch> and that's new?
[15:23] <hatch> ooooo burn
[15:23] <rick_h__> lol
[15:23]  * hatch hands some aloe to rick_h__
[15:23] <hatch> haha
[15:23] <hatch> ^5
[15:47] <frankban> gary_poster: do you have time for a quick hangout after the call?
[15:48] <gary_poster> sure frankban
[15:48] <frankban> thanks
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 10; kanban now
[15:58] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2
[16:01] <gary_poster> benji, call now
[16:02] <rick_h__> sinzui: jcsackett can you guys look at https://codereview.appspot.com/10049044 when you get time please? sinzui in particular would appreciate wording and gramatic feedback :)
[16:09] <hatch> Makyo: QA looks good
[16:10] <Makyo> hatch, have a q on one of your comment,w ill ask after call
[16:10] <hatch> deal
[16:11] <hatch> jcsackett: I think you need a new machine :)
[16:11] <jcsackett> hatch: google needs a new hangout app.
[16:11] <rick_h__> says the man that needs a new machine because tests are too slow :P
[16:11] <jcsackett> but! i get a new machine in 2 months. and it will have a webcam.
[16:11] <hatch> lol noone else drops
[16:11] <hatch> rick_h__: lol!
[16:12] <jcsackett> hatch: bcsaller dropped at the start of this call.
[16:12] <hatch> rumor has it the new MBP will be coming out next week so I should have a new one within a couple months
[16:12] <hatch> me hopes
[16:13]  * gary_poster has similar plans
[16:13] <jcsackett> hatch: my problem is just that my laptop doesn't have a webcam, so i'm using the mobile hangouts app.
[16:13] <jcsackett> oddly, it only really seems to have problems with y'all's standup. :-P
[16:13] <benji> I so want the banner to say "This site uses cookies, but only to determine if you have dismissed this banner or not."
[16:14] <gary_poster> lol
[16:14] <hatch> benji hahaha
[16:14] <Makyo> hatch, is your ATTRS comment with regards to this.get('component')?
[16:15] <frankban> benji: where is your branch?
[16:15] <hatch> Makyo: well we are 'getting' attributes but none are defined
[16:15] <hatch> so someone coming in later will be like 'wth are these coming from' ?
[16:15] <gary_poster> hey rick_h__ thank you for quality message change, awesome.  did luca direct/approve the presentation of that?
[16:16] <benji> frankban: https://codereview.appspot.com/9981044/
[16:16] <hatch> jcsackett: ahh yeah I found out the other day (when the power kept goign out) that the mobile app requires some serious mobile cpu power
[16:16] <Makyo> hatch, just component.  The other attributes are on topology
[16:16] <rick_h__> gary_poster: not really. It's a stab at "look at this, does this make people happy?"
[16:16] <benji> hmm, I guess lp2kanban hasn't updated it; that's odd
[16:16] <Makyo> hatch, component is set by the topology framework.
[16:16] <rick_h__> gary_poster: e.g. it's not any worse and might just work so check it out.
[16:16] <hatch> Makyo: hmm I thought the ATTRS was empty
[16:16] <jcsackett> hatch: yeah. i plug it in for the standups, but that hasn't really helped.
[16:16] <Makyo> hatch, app/views/topology/topology.js
[16:17] <gary_poster> rick_h__, lol ok, cool.  unfortunately luca is out rest of week.  maybe ask alejandra for a once over in his absence?  she will be back tomorrow
[16:17] <rick_h__> gary_poster: rgr, can do
[16:17] <gary_poster> ty
[16:17] <hatch> Makyo: oh right these things are used as extensions not individual modules
[16:18] <Makyo> hatch, I mean, sure, I can add component to all the files and document it as being set by the d3ns.Module stuff?
[16:18] <Makyo> hatch, but that's the only attribute.  Everything else is on topo, not this.
[16:18] <Makyo> all the files ATTRS, that is.
[16:19] <hatch> yeah - maybe just add component to the ATTRS
[16:19] <Makyo> hatch, alright.
[16:22] <benji> The power is flickering here.  I may drop off.
[16:22] <hatch> heh ours never flickers, it just goes down without warning
[16:23] <bcsaller> hatch: in chat again, branch pushed
[16:23] <hatch> kewl
[16:27] <frankban> gary_poster: call?
[16:29] <gary_poster> sorry frankban
[16:29] <gary_poster> yes
[16:31] <frankban> gary_poster: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/02bb45411739e441fe107c9f66e2a8cc36ba4ba7?authuser=0&hl=en
[16:35] <rick_h__> abentley: have sec?
[16:35] <abentley> rick_h__: sure.
[16:38] <jcsackett> rick_h__, hatch: can you take a look at https://codereview.appspot.com/9964044/
[16:40] <rick_h__> jcsackett: will do
[16:46] <abentley> rick_h__: I tried a hyphenated category and it worked fine: http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/1/charms?categories=cache-proxy
[16:48] <jcsackett> abentley, rick_h__: staging looks like it handles it, manage doesn't.
[16:48] <rick_h__> abentley: hmm, so something is up wih that request then. http://staging.jujucharms.com/api/1/charms?categories=app-servers&series=precise&text=&type=approved is returning results not too
[16:48] <rick_h__> jcsackett: ah!
[16:49] <abentley> rick_h__: It's possible that the ES mappings didn't get updated properly on manage.  I guess we'll need some help from the ops of the web.  I'm going on lunch.
[16:50] <rick_h__> abentley: ok, updating the bug to note the diff in staging/manage
[17:11]  * gary_poster has lunch
[17:15] <sinzui> orangesquad, gary_poster. Our tarmac is down. So is red's It appears all landing bots cannot ssh to launchpad. I will be in #is to learn how this will be resolved
[17:17] <rick_h__> thanks sinzui
[17:21] <jcsackett> hatch: can i get a review on https://codereview.appspot.com/9964044/ ?
[17:21] <hatch> yup doing now
[17:21] <hatch> done
[17:24] <jcsackett> hatch: awesome, thanks! :-)
[17:44] <rick_h__> hatch: why have you not tried http://facebook.github.io/react/blog/2013/06/05/why-react.html yet :P
[17:44] <rick_h__> "React really shines when your data changes over time."
[17:45] <gary_poster> thanks sinzui
[17:56] <hatch> rick_h__: haven't but I'll look into it
[17:57] <hatch> I have so many libs/frameworks to review
[17:57] <hatch> I need to take a month off to get caught up on everything
[17:57] <hatch> hah
[18:09]  * gary_poster restarts
[18:13]  * jcsackett assumes rick was trolling with the react thing
[18:15] <hatch> probably was but I always try to keep my finger on the pulse
[18:15] <hatch> the pulse just moves damn fast
[18:15] <hatch> haha
[18:17] <hatch> oh jeeze they are confusing their lib with JSX
[18:17] <rick_h__> hatch: yea, just a little bit. it's a new thing FB released in the last couple of weeks
[18:17] <rick_h__> jcsackett: ^^
[18:18] <hatch> it also re-renders the whole 'nontemplate' when data changes
[18:18] <rick_h__> I had to laugh when I grabbed the quote out
[18:18] <rick_h__> right, but it's got 'smarts' :P
[18:18] <hatch> maybe, but on face value it misses the mark
[18:18] <rick_h__> and they don't confuse it, but they support it in the html syntax
[18:19] <hatch> sure but their examples use JSX....why the **** would you use another technology while trying to demo your new technology
[18:19] <hatch> that's like someone using coffeescript to demo their new js framework
[18:19] <rick_h__> because it solves the "ugh, html in JS strings sucks"
[18:19] <rick_h__> and people run away
[18:19] <hatch> yeah it's almost like we solved that.....with templates
[18:20] <rick_h__> lol, but this is especially *not* templates :)
[18:20] <rick_h__> templates are too static (in this lib's eyes)
[18:20] <hatch> sure - why update values in a template when you can rerender the whole thing...
[18:20] <rick_h__> lol, you're mixing templates in again
[18:21] <rick_h__> their fiddle demo notes that it doesn't re-render since it didn't change :p
[18:21] <hatch> <textarea onKeyUp={this.handleKeyUp} ref="textarea">
[18:21] <hatch> O K I'm done
[18:21] <rick_h__> lmao
[18:22] <rick_h__> anyway, just joking that you didn't grab the absolute latest lib from a big company (FB) for your demo.
[18:23] <hatch> haha yeah I know :)
[18:23] <hatch> angular has been around for a while though
[18:23] <rick_h__> it's been out for weeks!
[18:23] <hatch> a couple years I think
[18:23] <rick_h__> it's not been 'released' for multiple years has it?
[18:24] <hatch> yep
[18:24] <hatch> it was pretty basic before though
[18:24] <rick_h__> ok, I mean it's only come across it more and more the last year. I figured it was internal and then open sourced just lately
[18:25] <rick_h__> so v1 was a year ago, maybe that's what I'm thinking
[18:25] <hatch> oh well yeah I think it only hit 1.0 last year - but 1.0 in js world is really like v100 because they all start at 0.0.1 lol
[18:34] <rick_h__> I really need to use test-debug more. 13s for tests vs 30 (though I think it's skipping some setup time in that time)
[18:36] <abentley> sinzui: Could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~abentley/charmworld/stop-ingesting-icon/+merge/167613 ?
[18:36]  * sinzui does
[18:41] <gary_poster> rick_h__, I suggested other changes than what you had.  Fine with what Curtis gave you.  Was just giving ideas.
[18:42] <rick_h__> gary_poster: See that. Not a problem. Thanks.
[18:42] <gary_poster> rick_h__, thank you very much for the changes.  great to have.  I am hopeful that Luca and/or Alejandra will bless with minimum/no changes
[18:42] <rick_h__> gary_poster: yea, hopefully seeing will help make it click. I'm not a big fan of moving the UI around and would hate to remove a tab *sometimes*
[18:43] <gary_poster> cool
[18:45] <sinzui> abentley, I am not sure I understand the need for --prefix
[18:46] <sinzui> abentley, well, the default rule looks like a filter that is not useful to this case
[18:46] <abentley> sinzui: It's a convenience for testing, so that you can do enqueue --prefix '~charmers' and get charms with icons more quickly.
[18:46] <rick_h__> sinzui: can I get a LGTM when you get a sec per your changes. Then I'd like to move this card nito acceptance vs landing so I can work on meeting with UX to get pre-landing acceptance per gary_poster if that's cool
[18:47] <sinzui> abentley, okay, works for me
[18:47] <abentley> sinzui: it was already using CHARM_IMPORT_FILTER, I just made it possible to override that.
[18:48] <sinzui> abentley, r=me
[18:48] <abentley> sinzui: But if you want, we can scrap CHARM_IMPORT_FILTER entirely.
[18:49] <sinzui> abentley, I got confused for a moment. I was thinking about how the filter relates to the icon problem. It doesn't, and that is good because there are non~charmers charms with icons now
[18:49]  * sinzui returns to rick_h__'s branch
[18:49] <abentley> sinzui: Cool.
[18:49]  * abentley emulates Tarmac
[18:54] <sinzui> orangesquad. Looks like matsubara is a single point of failure. IS doesn't have access tot the machine.  I have pinged rfowler, my only lead. The loss of ssh though makes me ponder a firewall change
[18:55] <sinzui> abentley, wasn't a firewall change the cause a issues in Feb/Mar?
[18:55] <abentley> sinzui: Sorry, I don't remember.
[18:56] <sinzui> oh, that change was between tarmac and staging.
[19:08] <sinzui> abentley, I will add an options property to the Charm model in my next branch. *Every* use of config is to get to a dict names options in the code.
[19:08] <abentley> sinzui: +1
[19:33] <bac> gary_poster: i've added comments to https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/15o7YX4HFuuVuzYzKmhMRBfvKkca6Srwq8WdyR6YDL44/edit
[19:34] <gary_poster> thank you bac
[19:39] <benji> I have another small branch that adds yuidoc linting up for review: https://codereview.appspot.com/10045046
[19:43] <hatch> benji: on it
[19:43] <benji> thanks
[19:48] <hatch> benji: is ther any way to make it lint the prefixed *'s on each line?
[19:49] <benji> hatch: I can easily do that, but we would have to finish the argument about whether or not we want the *s first... or did we finish that?  I can't remember.
[19:49]  * benji looks at the blog.
[19:49] <hatch> I thought we did but I have seen new code with it hah
[19:51] <benji> hatch: the blog doesn't mention it.  I vaguely recall us settling on /** to start, two space indents for the body, no star on prose lines, and /* (indented at the same level as the opening /**) to end.  Does that sound right?
[19:52] <benji> I could make that happen pretty easily, but fixing all the existing comments might be a tad tricky.  Hmm, well maybe not; I might be able to do it relatively quickly.
[19:53] <hatch> benji: I thought that's what we had agreed uppon as well
[19:54] <hatch> there was some pushback because vim's commenting system
[19:54] <benji> right, but I remember providing a setting tweak that fixed that objection
[19:55] <hatch> holy schmoly blueprint emails batman
[20:01] <benji> hatch: thanks for the review, I had a question for you about the read-only attribute.
[20:07] <hatch> sure
[20:07] <hatch> shoot
[20:09] <hatch> oh I see in the email
[20:09] <hatch> nope that just means that the initial value is provided by a function
[20:09] <hatch> there is actually a setting for readonly attributes
[20:09] <hatch> ^ benji
[20:10] <hatch> http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/classes/Attribute.html#method_addAttr see readOnly
[20:12] <benji> hatch: oh! ok; thanks for the explanation
[20:13] <hatch> np - fixing the parser about those quoted functions would be great
[20:13] <hatch> btw :)
[20:27] <hatch> http://analytics.blogspot.ca/2013/06/google-analytics-becomes-robust-testing.html
[20:28] <hatch> gary_poster benji: ^
[20:28] <hatch> maybe something in these new changes we can take advantage of
[20:29] <gary_poster> very cool hatch, thx.  bac, you also ^^
[20:59] <hatch> so generators are coming to ES6, I figured you perlites would enjoy that
[20:59] <hatch> pythonites I mean
[20:59] <hatch> :)
[20:59] <hatch> I actually had a use for them yesterday - then I worked around it


[12:03] <dsas> LaserJock: the Ubuntu desktop guide that is, though i'd guess most of the work would cross over
[12:04] <LaserJock> dsas: ok, thanks. I haven't actually looked at much of the other documentation, I just tend to focus on what I'm working on :(
[12:06] <dsas> LaserJock: I've mainly looked and not worked ;)
[12:09] <LaserJock> actually, now that I look at it. I think it would be nice to have some sort of notation about which apps in that list can be installed from the Ubuntu repos.
[12:10] <LaserJock> when I'm looking at software lists it is nice to have some idea as to the ease of installations (installed by default, installed through apt, build your own, etc.)
[12:18] <dsas> I think that they are all installed via apt using main or universe with the exception of netbeans.
[12:20] <dsas> interestingly there's two eric3s
[12:21] <LaserJock> then we should at least have a note with netbeans that says that it isn't in the Ubuntu repos
[12:24] <dsas> LaserJock: ok I'll make sure to do that.
[02:53] <hyperactivecrond> Kyral: how doth the installguide come?
[02:53] <Kyral> Considering Ubuntu Express isn't out yet?
[02:53] <hyperactivecrond> lemme get this straight: gui install != ubuntu express, yes?
[02:54] <Kyral> no Ubuntu Express is the installer, IIRC
[02:54] <hyperactivecrond> any help here?
[02:54] <hyperactivecrond> i thought express == the livecd that u run from and then install it if u want
[02:54] <Kyral> There is already documentation on the NCurses installer
[02:55] <Kyral> And being able to install from the LiveCD would make the Install CD not needed anymore ;D
[02:56] <hyperactivecrond> *grim grimace*
[02:58] <Kyral> I rest my case
[03:01] <hyperactivecrond> kyral espresso == ubuntu express => install from livecd
[03:01] <Kyral> ...
[04:14] <robotgeek> hmm, jjesse isn't on here.
[04:17] <LaserJock> unfortunately you guys seem to have bad timezones
[04:18] <robotgeek> where's jjesse located again?
[04:18] <LaserJock> I don't know
[04:19] <jsgotangco> USA
[04:19] <Madpilot> just a heads up: I'm hacking most of the Desktop Guide up for the next hour or so - I'll send to the list when I'm done, and it would be nice if folks stayed away from committing until then - thanks...
[04:19] <jsgotangco> have you guys seen this?
[04:19] <jsgotangco> http://www.darlugo.com/?id=388&hp=1
[04:19] <LaserJock> Madpilot: in other words "Back Off!" ;-)
[04:20] <Madpilot> LaserJock: wasn't going to be so blunt, but I'm likely to touch every file in desktopguide in the next hour or so... :P
[04:21] <robotgeek> extremely neat jsgotangco
[04:22] <jsgotangco> tiles
[04:22] <jsgotangco> what a neat concept
[04:23] <LaserJock> some of the stuff was really cool
[04:24] <LaserJock> some of it I didn't really understand the point
[04:24] <jsgotangco> well
[04:24] <jsgotangco> i dont think we'll be using them soon
[04:27] <LaserJock> it would need to have a CLI and then I might think about it ;-)
[04:29] <jsgotangco> hopefully your tile won't shatter easily
[04:30] <LaserJock> no kidding, it would be fun to carry them around in my backpack though, put my laptop together when I get to class
[04:46] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: diffs off to the list - four of them for Ub. Desktop Guide
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hold on
[04:53] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, done
[04:53] <LaserJock> hmm, I wish the Packaging Guide had enough of a status to track :(
[04:56] <Madpilot> anyone know what other status tags DocBooks knows aside from "writing" and "review"?
[04:57] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: thanks, btw - wish my commit access would get arranged... :P
[05:13] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, mdke hasn't made a request from elmo yet?
[05:14] <Madpilot> he has, I think, but I haven't heard back
[05:15] <LaserJock> it took me quite some time (2 weeks maybe)
[05:16] <LaserJock> although it was over a month after it was supposed to
[05:17] <bhuvan> Madpilot: in addition to "writing", "review" we can also have "help" status
[05:18] <Madpilot> bhuvan: which means "This section needs help"?
[05:18] <bhuvan> yep
[05:19] <bhuvan> "Help Wanted" check http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/status/sg-report.html
[05:19] <Madpilot> bhuvan: did you see sabdfl's post to planet.u.c? He denies the Goobuntu rumours...
[05:19] <bhuvan> Madpilot, ok
[05:33] <Madpilot> bhuvan: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/20
[05:34] <bhuvan> Madpilot, i have located it, thanks
[05:38] <Madpilot> np
[06:17] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: ping
[06:17] <jsgotangco> hi
[06:18] <robotgeek> can you commit the set of patches i mailed earlier?
[06:22] <jsgotangco> i'll look for it
[06:22] <jsgotangco> hmm
[06:31] <jsgotangco> bookinfo.xml.patch - Added information about other contributors
[06:31] <jsgotangco> common-tasks.xml.patch - Additions by Kenminardo, DerekBuranen, KorkyKathman
[06:31] <jsgotangco> getting-help.xml.patch - :s/Ubuntu/Kubuntu wherever appropriate
[06:31] <jsgotangco> getting-started.xml.patch - Cleaning up
[06:31] <jsgotangco> tips-and-tricks.xml.patch - Gnome with kde,gdm with kdm
[06:31] <jsgotangco> this one?
[06:32] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, that one?
[06:33] <robotgeek> yeah
[06:33] <jsgotangco> ok doing it now sorry i didnt notice it
[06:33] <robotgeek> no problem
[06:34] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: i'm applying for membership next meeting, it would be nice if you could make it :)
[06:34] <jsgotangco> yes of course
[06:34] <robotgeek> i don't think time has been set yet
[06:34] <jsgotangco> ahh no time yet
[06:35] <jsgotangco> hopefully its not those ungodly hours (20UTC to 22UTC)
[06:35] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: what time does that correspond to in your time zone
[06:35] <Madpilot> 1400Z is nearly the only time that works for me - even that's 0600 local :P
[06:37] <jsgotangco> that's around 4 am to 6am
[06:37] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:37] <Madpilot> 2000Z = 4am for you? bleh
[06:37] <robotgeek> i'm mostly nocturnal, so don't matter to me :)
[06:38] <Madpilot> noon here - I'm usually at work or heading there
[06:39] <robotgeek> i'll ping you all as soon as i hear of the time :)
[06:39] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, done
[06:39] <robotgeek> great! thanks jsgotangco
[06:39] <jsgotangco> thanks too
[06:40] <jsgotangco> ooppss should be venkat not vengkat
[06:40] <jsgotangco> sorry
[06:41] <robotgeek> np, i don't think ppl are going to mistake it for anything else!
[06:41] <Madpilot> robotgeek: I'm sub'd to the CCAgenda wiki page, so I'll know when they finally post the next meeting time
[06:41] <jsgotangco> Kenminardo, DerekBuranen, KorkyKathman
[06:41] <jsgotangco> ?
[06:41] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: those are the ppl i am working with
[06:41] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, surely they are aware that we're releasing this on a dual license?
[06:42] <robotgeek> jsgotangco: i don't think they will have issues with that
[06:42] <robotgeek> i'll just ask to make sure
[06:42] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, please clarfiy to make sure or better yet let's invite them here
[06:42] <robotgeek> okay, CC-SA and GDFL?
[06:43] <Madpilot> some/all of them have been on IRC & here before, jsgotangco
[06:43] <jsgotangco> ahh
[06:43] <jsgotangco> robotgeek, right
[06:44] <jsgotangco> k i got back to work first
[06:44] <robotgeek> kkathman: apparently i missed a clarification on licensing issues
[06:44] <kkathman> ok
[06:45] <kkathman> robotgeek: what is that?
[06:45] <robotgeek> kkathman: just to make you aware, the guide is going to be released under 2 licenses. Gnu Free Documentation License, and CC by SA.
[06:45] <kkathman> ok
[06:45] <robotgeek> however, i was hoping that jsgotangco or Madpilot could offer some insight on to why that is important. I don't mind it at all, lol
[06:46] <kkathman> Nor I
[06:46] <kkathman> International implications perhaps?
[06:46] <robotgeek> kkathman: i guess none of the others would mind too
[06:46] <kkathman> I wouldnt think so
[06:46] <LaserJock> robotgeek: are you wondering about the docteam license?
[06:47] <kkathman> My work here is purely voluntary, and I would hope the licensing would be done by those that would know :)
[06:47] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/License
[06:47] <robotgeek> LaserJock: yeah, the dual license thing. jsgotangco wanted me to make sure that all contributors were okay with it
[06:47] <robotgeek> thanks jsgotangco
[06:47] <kkathman> Maybe we just need to know why we would NOT be ok with it?
[06:48] <jsgotangco> most contributors are ok with a free license in a free project
[06:48] <jsgotangco> heh
[06:48] <kkathman> sure
[06:49] <jsgotangco> cool
[06:49] <jsgotangco> kkathman, we're cool really, just making sure you know about it
[06:49] <kkathman> appreciate that jsgotangco :)  Im just fine with it
[06:49] <jsgotangco> thanks
[06:50] <kkathman> well Im off to bed then :)
[06:51] <robotgeek> cool, i'll go away for a while now :)
[08:39] <Madpilot> interesting - there is/was a CC:SA license: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/sa/1.0/
[08:40] <Madpilot> the current licenses are 2.0 or 2.5 - this was one of their first-gen ones
[08:45] <jsgotangco> we haven't been discussing much about changing the licenses
[08:45] <jsgotangco> oh shit
[08:45] <jsgotangco> i have to edit that meeting page
[08:47] <jsgotangco> gahh
[08:52] <Madpilot> I just linked MeetingAgenda to that worldclock site, the one that the CCAgenda page uses
[08:52] <jsgotangco> i used to have that, someone erased it
[08:53] <Madpilot> useful site, that one
[09:01] <jsgotangco> mdke_, hmm were you able to get around with that edubuntu script for doc.ubuntu.com?
[09:02] <mdke_> jsgotangco, gah, thanks for reminding me. I'll do it today definitely
[09:02] <mdke_> sorry
[09:02] <jsgotangco> cheers
[09:04] <Madpilot> mdke_: hmm?
[09:04] <Madpilot> Happy Valentine's Day to you too :P
[09:05] <mdke_> oh bloody hell
[09:05] <mdke> the hug was for the dg patch, but thanks for reminding me of valentines day too
[09:06] <Madpilot> the status stuff? np
[09:12] <mdke> Madpilot, status tags available are at the bottom of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
[09:14] <mdke> Kyral, i think the installer is now working. It is called "espresso", and if you want to write some documentation for it, you can build on the guidalinex documentation already available
[09:24] <Madpilot> why is there such a huge blob of white space below "Projects" here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Projects
[10:09] <manicka> are there any vmware player dapper virtual machines available?
[05:10] <jsgotangco> mdke, wow i didn't notice the guy was from SUSE (gnome-doc list)
[06:38] <LaserJock> mdke: interesting thunderbird doesn't have a "Reply To List", it must be a bad email client :-)
[06:38] <mdke> nah
[06:38] <mdke> it's just not in the list of good email clients that have one
[06:38] <mdke> ;)
[06:47] <LaserJock> mdke: is it ok to make a .ent file for a particular doc. I have quite a few things I'm using over and over again but they aren't really useful outside of the Packaging Guide.
[06:47] <mdke> sure
[06:48] <mdke> or put them in the top of the packageingguide.xml
[06:49] <LaserJock> mdke: ok
[09:15] <Burgwork> mdke, rofl to the sounder post about Donald Duck
[09:24] <mdke> Burgwork, :D
[09:27] <mdke> Burgwork, i wonder if we can combine the shipit and free entries for the flash thing.
[09:28] <mdke> afterall, shipit is free
[09:28] <Burgwork> how about start out talking about free software and then transition to shipit and talk about free as in beer
[09:29] <mdke> i'm just conscious that they may have to limit the number of items, so yeah, a combined one along those lines would work, I think
[09:30] <mdke> I think the page is more or less ready for mark to look at and make some choices, and for them to start on some animations
[09:30] <mdke> I'm really keen for the documentation one to make it
[09:30] <mdke> :)
[09:31] <Burgwork> I think the page is ready as well
[09:31] <Burgwork> also I don't have more time to put into it
[09:31] <Burgwork> bloody book
[09:32] <Madpilot> hi Burgwork - how's the bloody book going?
[09:32] <mdke> Burgwork, :)
[09:32] <mdke> everyone in the docteam is writing a bloody book
[09:32] <mdke> except me
[09:32] <mdke> >_<
[09:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not, at least I don't think I am
[09:32] <mdke> noooo
[09:33] <Madpilot> no book here, either :P
[09:33] <mdke> stay and be in my club
[09:33] <LaserJock> mdke: ok, no book writing for me
[09:34] <jjesse> i just have the corrections of the 1st draft to make for my chapter
[09:37] <Madpilot> need to go to work - later, all
[09:47] <jjesse> who is working on the packaging guide again?
[09:47] <LaserJock> me
[09:47] <LaserJock> the Ubuntu package guide that is
[09:48] <jjesse> is there a difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu packagin?
[09:48] <jjesse> is there a way the guide can accomodate both of them?
[09:48] <LaserJock> some, I plan on getting Riddell or jpatrick to help write a section
[09:48] <jjesse> ok cool they were just talking about it at the tech board meeting
[09:48] <LaserJock> jjesse: I'm there too ;-)
[09:49] <jjesse> ah didn't see you were there
[09:49] <jjesse> silly jjesse
[09:49] <LaserJock> I'm up next
[09:50] <jjesse> good luck, its tough i didn't realize how tougher it is from becominng a ubuntu member
[09:56] <mdke> best of luck LaserJock
[09:56] <LaserJock> mdke: thanks, I need it
[09:57] <mdke> nah, even if you don't get there now, you will soon
[09:57] <mdke> and we love ya
[10:17] <Kyral> Do the Daily Builds have the new Installer on them yet..
[10:18] <Kyral> I wanna get working on this before school buries me again
[10:29] <mdke> Kyral, apt-get install espresso
[10:29] <mdke> espresso - Ubuntu live CD installer
[10:29] <LaserJock> thanks guys
[10:29] <mdke> it was released a couple of weeks back
[10:29] <mdke> LaserJock, success?
[10:29] <LaserJock> not yet, not sure
[10:29] <mdke> Kyral, you might be interested in this too:
[10:29] <mdke> espresso-guadalinex-doc - Guadalinex documentation and help files for Espresso live installer
[10:29] <jjesse> took forever for jpatrick to get through
[10:29] <mdke> espresso-ubuntu-doc - Ubuntu documentation and help files for Espresso live installer
[10:33] <mdke> Kyral, ?
[10:34] <Kyral> huh?
[10:35] <mdke> Kyral, does that help?
[10:36] <robotgeek> he's doing quite a bit on the WifiDocs
[10:36] <Kyral> sorry I'm zoning
[10:36] <Kyral> ...
[10:36] <mdke> robotgeek, he comes in here sometimes, nick of lambert
[10:36] <Kyral> LJ going for MOTU kinda reminded me how much I have slipped in my activity recently
[10:37] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I didn't make it exactly so you have some time to catch up
[10:40] <robotgeek> LaserJock: too bad, you'll nail it next time
[10:40] <LaserJock> I suppose
[10:40] <jjesse> the only reason that you didn't get in was due to the fact that none of your sponsors were there
[10:40] <LaserJock> that's what I get for doing to much documentation and organizational work and not enough uploads
[10:41] <LaserJock> ;-)
[10:41] <robotgeek> hey jjesse
[10:41] <Kyral> Oy...
[10:41] <Kyral> I'm gonna have to use cdbs on this one
[10:41] <jjesse> hey robotgeek
[10:42] <robotgeek> wow, this feels nice
[10:42] <robotgeek> i'm in a virtual terminal, lol