[02:28] <sbalneav> Evening all
[04:13] <LaserJock> sbalneav: around?
[17:17] <Ahmuck> nubae1: when u get a chance, could you give me a hand on the dhcpd.conf ?
[18:35] <LaserJock> morning everybody
[18:37] <LaserJock> ohhh lovely, encouraging bugmail this weekend :/
[18:40] <LaserJock> sbalneav: when you have a minute I think we should chat about this Feisty LTSPfs bug that people got up-in-arms over
[19:40] <morgs> LaserJock: hey
[19:41] <LaserJock> hi morgs
[19:41] <morgs> LaserJock: were you at UDS?
[19:41] <LaserJock> nope, at home workin' unfortunately
[19:42] <LaserJock> but I did spend some time working on UDS issues during UDS
[19:43] <morgs> heh
[19:44] <morgs> LaserJock: I could use help with bug 263173 for an SRU
[19:44] <morgs> Requires just rebuilds against a newer xulrunner
[19:50] <LaserJock> morgs: right, saw some of that in my bugmail
[19:51] <LaserJock> morgs: give me a little bit to get my grading situation in order and I'll get uploads ready
[19:51] <morgs> LaserJock: it's not urgent (in that it has been waiting a while already). james_w has done most of our sponsoring to date, but with UDS it was hard to get hold of him.
[19:51] <morgs> LaserJock: Sure, that would be great. Thanks!
[19:52] <LaserJock> np
[20:42] <LaserJock> hi bdoin
[20:58] <bdoin> hi
[21:00] <LaserJock> bdoin: how are things in gcompris land?
[21:02] <bdoin> slowly, still working on the goocanvas port
[21:03] <bdoin> just made a 8.5RC2 last friday for you to test if you wish
[21:11] <LaserJock> bdoin: yeah, I might have to check that out if I get some time
[21:13] <bdoin> if you want a preview: http://gcompris.net/incoming/new_watercycle.png
[21:13] <bdoin> http://gcompris.net/incoming/new_menu2.png
[21:16] <LaserJock> bdoin: looks very nice
[21:32] <LaserJock> Lns: perhaps the ltspfs bug thing needs to go to edubuntu-devel
[21:33] <LaserJock> it's kind of a too-little-too-late for that bug, but is useful overall discussion
[21:36] <Lns> LaserJock: i agree.. i hate making more comments but it *is* useful for the future
[21:37] <Lns> LaserJock: would edubuntu-devel really be the best place for ltspfs given edubuntu technically isn't LTSP anymore?
[21:37] <LaserJock> yes, yes it is
[21:38] <LaserJock> who else cares?
[21:38] <LaserJock> we can't just drop LTSP out the door
[21:38] <Lns> I thought edubuntu was technically just the addon stuff, not ltsp bits anymore
[21:38] <LaserJock> ok, you need to seperate some things a bit
[21:39] <LaserJock> as a community we're interested in anything to do with Education in Ubuntu
[21:39] <LaserJock> obviously LTSP is a pretty darn big part of that
[21:39] <LaserJock> so of course we care about LTSP
[21:39] <LaserJock> however, we don't *own* LTSP
[21:39] <LaserJock> but it's in our best interest to care about it, right?
[21:40] <Lns> LaserJock: well of course
[21:40] <LaserJock> also, while LTSPfs is the particular example
[21:40] <LaserJock> the issue is a general problem
[21:40] <Lns> LaserJock: right, but the general problem isn't with Edubuntu, but Ubuntu as a whole
[21:41] <LaserJock> sure, but Edubuntu I think is particularly hit by this
[21:41] <Lns> I agree
[21:41] <LaserJock> so it wouldn't hurt for use to figure out how we can do better at not dropping the ball
[21:41] <Lns> but will the right people see the discussion that need to make a decision on actually changing how things work on a bug fixing level?
[21:41] <LaserJock> for one, that bug falls off our "radar" when it's marked "Fix Released"
[21:42] <LaserJock> we need to make sure things don't fall off the radar
[21:42] <LaserJock> well, I suppose that's a question
[21:42] <Lns> Can anyone change the status like that? Or just the one who the bug was assigned to to fix?
[21:43] <LaserJock> anybody can change most of the statuses
[21:43] <Lns> that's bad
[21:43] <Lns> imho
[21:43] <LaserJock> I think you have to have bug-control privileges to go to Triaged, but I think everything else is open
[21:43] <Lns> look at the security flaw in that alone...someone who hates ubuntu could go in and change statuses on all sorts of bugs
[21:44] <LaserJock> sure, but that's not been a real issue
[21:44] <LaserJock> we're normally looking to get as much help as possible, and hence make it as open as possible
[21:45] <Lns> The structure of bug reporting needs to be revamped IMHO, not like I have the answers but that's just something I've seen over time that doesn't always get talked about
[21:46] <Lns> I understand the needing help part 100%
[21:46] <LaserJock> the problem with that bug seems like 1) user expectations need management 2) we need to keep things on the "radar" 3) we need somebody to sort of "drive" QA
[21:46] <Lns> right..we need followups
[21:46] <Lns> and there is, but obviously this one slipped through the cracks
[21:46] <LaserJock> also, we need to be clear on what's going to fixed, where and when
[21:47] <Lns> agreed
[21:48] <Lns> I like the irc meetings idea, and maybe that can be something we do on a more frequent basis as a community to go over all of these things
[21:49] <Lns> Almost like a weekly/bi-monthly status update on all open bugs
[21:49] <LaserJock> now, I tried to look at all the bugs with stable release tasks and it doesn't look like we have any currently
[21:49] <Lns> of course that's a TON of bugs i'd imagine
[21:49] <LaserJock> so right now we're doing ok'ish that way
[21:49] <Lns> ok
[21:49] <LaserJock> if my searches were accurate
[21:49] <LaserJock> I think they were
[21:50] <LaserJock> we currently have ~250 open bugs
[21:50] <LaserJock> and only a handful are assigned to anybody
[21:50] <LaserJock> and quite a few are untriaged
[21:51] <LaserJock> I think even less are forwarded upstream
[21:52] <Lns> there's a big problem right there... we need bug maintainer(s) that can take time to do all of this on a scheduled basis
[21:52] <Lns> people who "know" what bugs exist so they can assign as duplicates, triage, invalidate, etc
[21:52] <Lns> and needs to be separated by project probably
[21:52] <LaserJock> exactly
[21:53] <Lns> I can help with that i'm sure, but some standard practices/schedules should be established
[21:54] <LaserJock> which is why I think edubuntu-devel is a good place to discuss it
[21:55] <Lns> LaserJock: just a thought, is there any way to send scheduled 'bug digest' e-mails to subscribers say, once a week or whatever?
[21:56] <Lns> automated "these are open bugs" type things?
[21:58] <LaserJock> Lns: hmm, so repeatedly giving out "this is the list of open bugs"?
[21:58] <LaserJock> not just here's a new bug
[21:58] <Lns> right
[21:58] <Lns> kind of a reminder email
[21:59] <Lns> maybe with a request for those who hadn't been commented on in X days
[21:59] <LaserJock> we could script that fairly easy I think
[21:59] <LaserJock> but I'm not sure how much we'd gain by it
[21:59] <Lns> well, it'd help with people forgetting about certain bugs
[21:59] <Lns> i dunno, it's more of a LP issue than anything else probably
[22:00] <LaserJock> well, you can easily see what bugs your assigned to and subscribed to
[22:00] <LaserJock> and we have a LP page that lists all the open bugs by project
[22:01] <Lns> right
[22:02] <LaserJock> we can write our own bug page if needed, I'm just not sure what people would find useful
[22:02] <Lns> hmm...maybe some sorting mechanisms at the least, to see which ones haven't been updated/commented on
[22:02] <LaserJock> bottom line it looks to me like bugs aren't getting assigned
[22:02] <LaserJock> i.e. nobody wants to take them on
[22:03] <LaserJock> so it's not so much a matter of people knowing what's on their list (although that's important too) as much as getting people to look at things in the first place
[22:03] <Lns> can we look at other bug systems to see how they do it? Maybe Mozilla or other?
[22:03] <Lns> right...we need a trigger of sorts to force people to review things i think..otherwise they're just browsing what they want to browse
[22:04] <LaserJock> well, I'm ok with people just browsing
[22:05] <LaserJock> we just need people
[22:05] <Lns> so how do we get more people? ;)
[22:07] <LaserJock> not sure exactly
[22:07] <LaserJock> advertize, make it actually do stuff


[00:25] <ubports_bot> Project daily-hammerhead build #308: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-hammerhead/308/
[00:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #946: SUCCESS in 1 min 43 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/946/
 Thank you to the developers of Telegram. THE GIF support is still missing, and the BOT may not be properly supported. The controls for the BOT are missing.
[03:03] <tgBot> Niter was added by: Niter
 @Niter, Welcome
 @delijati, There are some upcoming news from Yunit, just stay tuned :)
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project vivid-rootfs-armhf build #113: SUCCESS in 1.5 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/vivid-rootfs-armhf/113/
[04:27] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #947: SUCCESS in 0.48 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/947/
 @delijati, It was removed from Ubuntu Artful Aardvark (to be 17.10) a week or two ago
 @Andreas_Kube, Agreed. GIF support we got a ticket already, you are invited to make a ticket for bot support
 @Kévin, No what do you mean specifically?
 @sorcier777, You would be our guy to develop a push notification server right? 😆
 Kudos for the new Telegram update! It is great to see basic apps being maintained and updated, no matter the size of the incremental improvement!
 thanks ^^
 We want to release more often
 but smaller stuff
 I try to give a good example for that ;)
 @Flohack, 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😍
[08:23] <ubports_bot> Project daily-fp2 build #326: SUCCESS in 13 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-fp2/326/
[08:24] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #948: SUCCESS in 1 min 6 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/948/
 E5 Owners! Discuss this with me plz: https://forums.ubports.com/topic/525/bq-e5-vegetahd-change-of-grid-units-scaling
 Hey great community
 quick question; when would it be possible to use apps from F-Droid on the ubuntu phone? Is this a thing? Are there any plans for this? Would a conversion from .apk to something else be feasable?  … I don't want to use any proprietary applications on my phone, for sure. So, most of the apps on F-droid would be a good alternative for me to expand the scope of my ubuntu phone. I guess those same app developers would be more in tune with our community
[08:54] <tgBot> than say, the developpers from propapps...
 @per_sonne, At least would be easier to support than non-FDroid because no dependency on Google Play Services
 Exactly, my thoughts too
 @Lorxu, No its the same effort. Ubuntu Touch has no dalvik engine at all, plus lots of APIs missing. So the only feasable way will be Anbox https://anbox.io/ but this is only a proof-of-concept. Lots of many unknown problems, like file/media sharing, acces to hardware, no background tasks etc
 The 2 systems are basically not compatible, and this is currently not on the list to get there
 @Flohack, From my knowledge most Android emulators (like the one Sailfish has) only support F-Droid-compatible apps, so it would seem easier. Easier is of course still far from easy, though
 @Flohack, Yeah sure
 @Lorxu, Anbox is in fact no emulator, its like libhybris a compat layer. That makes it so promising, since we would run native device speed
 emulation you can completly forget, this is too slow ;)
 @Flohack, This.
 Here's the deal; the place I work at wants me to use google authenticator to verify my VPN connection. For that, I must use an android phone with google services. I told them nope.
 Yeah its a container like the android layer already is now. The same for Apps
 "I don't use android"
 "Oh, you have an iphone, then?"
 "Nope."
 "Windows?"
 "nope."
 did you try this? https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.mzanetti.ubuntu-authenticator
 works for my google account very neatly ;)
 I didn't know it existed
 let me check
 we have lot of good stuff
 when I search "authenticator" in the store, I came up with nothing
 weird...
 openstore?
 yes
 or canonical store
 both
 its always worth trying both
 ah ok well then
 I still have the canonical image on my production phone
 I must upgrade to ubports...
 Well
 I think you just might have fixed my problem
 I will love to rub this on my companies nose.
 *pshaw*
 hahaha
 I had a surreal discussion last week
 Thanks to @mzanetti (who is not in this group its sad)
 Give him Kudos ;)
 "You must use android! Everybody does!"
 "No I don't!"
 yeah you MUST.USE.IT.
 sounds like kinky psychodrug ad
 OBEY
 CONSUME
 REPRODUCE
 ok, that last part, sure, no problem
 😆
 @per_sonne, AFAIK that's just OTP and any OTP app should work. Unfortunately many people don't know when they are using something standard-compliant that's easily replaced...
 I'm quite sure tha IT guys will refuse the Ubuntu app because it's not listed on their compliance standards
 @Lorxu, Even Facbook uses XMPP in their chat, and it was possible to use normal Jabber clients until recently. But ofc nobody knows that ;)
 what?  The app does not connect to the VPN 😆
 Send them to me, I will explain
 It's a very large, complicated company.
<EMAIL_ADDRESS> I know mine is, too
 @per_sonne, That would honestly be retarded especially because OTP is a standard, you comply with it or you don't, and whitelisting proprietary apps for it?...
 they have a soviet-level paranoia and internal procedures standards
 @per_sonne, And then get hacked. Its always the same, people think a bigger thing is better
 @per_sonne, And this is why big companies don't get shit done
 Yep.
 Android is big so it must be safe lol
 @Lorxu, Btw just curious, is there any documentation or library on how this otp apps are constructed?
 They make me use windows on the company's laptop
 yeah I also use Windows but its ok. In fact I love Visual Studiox D
 wut?
 Every day, when I get home, I have to scrub thourougly wash out the disgust with myself
 @bhushanshah, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-time_password gives a good introduction, many many libraries around
 @per_sonne, My internship wants us to bring our own laptops. So hope they like me using Linux. If not, they'll have to supply me a device :P
 they have like two people who were allowed to use Red Hat because they insisted and are "top dogs"
 everybody else gets windows shoved down their throats
 *shivers*
 @per_sonne, https://twitter.com/SylvieLorxu/status/902909820549947393
 Yeah, I also need a good tutorial on how to deal with UEFI; I have two pc's that need to remove crap and I'm still fighting.
 i count myself lucky for "only" being forced to use win7
 @per_sonne, I ended up going with Fedora's auto formatting which actually worked fine it seems
 hmmmm
 @Lorxu, I had to re-install win10 the other day on work laptop and that darn cortana thing started talking to me to guide me through the install. Like wtf!
 @DanChapman, I played the old Halo game at a friend who had Windows 10 for a bit, the game set Cortana off and made her Google for fish hats or so (even though that was not what was said)
 @Lorxu, Oh...  Always listening devices are scary
 totally agree
 @Lorxu, and in most cases useless...
 @bhushanshah, Yeah, used i3 for a long while, decided to try Plasma 5 again on this new device, runs so awesomely
 I was really into trying Cortana but I just couldn't find a proper use case for it
 It's basically a route to Bing
 I don't even want to think of what those always-listening things know of me by now >.>
 Forget all this voice control. It does not really save any time or brings comfort
 Its just big pile of BS
 @vanyasem, It's simpler and easier to just type the entry in DDG and get the same result
 yep
 @vanyasem, If someone else has it enabled and you're voice chatting with them, you can just say "Cortana, shut down the computer"
 @Flohack, But, but.... it can tell you loads of facts about halo!
 @vanyasem, The moment when Bing brings better results than Bing where billions get invested 😆
 sry ddg
 @Lorxu, if someone else has it enabled I refuse to voice chat with them 🙈
 @Flohack, Well, better than Google
 😆 Im not sure about that but ok ^^
 I searched "Linux cp show progress" on Google recently (new device, didn't switch search engine yet) and it came up with a "child pornogrophy is wrong" warning. Like, thanks, Google, now I'm on another watchlist?
 😳
 It's rather scary to think that people want to use algorithms to figure out everything yet Google calls me a pedophile just because I look up something Linux related? Lol...
 I don't use google services expect YouTube, so I'm not that much concerned
 (Photo, 540x960) https://irc.ubports.com/Oqz9a001/file_334.jpg Oh not new device, but yeah...
 @Lorxu, Is that thing gapps-free?
 @vanyasem, Yup, proudly so
 could you pm me a list of apps you use (maybe screenshot of f-droid installed or home screen)?
 i'm having a hard time with it
 @Lorxu, Pedophiles can use Linux too. It's meant for everyone.
 @per_sonne, Heh, yeah, but there's no relationship between the two (that I'm aware of) :P
 Correlation is not causation.
 @per_sonne, Big Data is also big headache about what is the right theory. Human mankind starts trusting in statistics more than intuition
 Big Data is literally throwing (incomplete) data on a heap and trying to find something. Like, no, driving bicycles doesn't mean you like chocolate ice cream. I just can't even. Why do people think this is the right way to go when science has proven to work the way it does and not this way so often...
 Every time someone hypes "big data" I want to punch them in the face
 I reach for my pistol.
 @Lorxu, Do it!
[11:03] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Good news: i just got an dev environment working on my Debian and now I will back up my oneplus and flash ubports ☺
 ^^
 cool
[11:04] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> One thing worries me. Why do I need an account for notifications?
 @Andre Büsgen, They go through a central server and that way it knows what are your notifications. Also that server is probably offline by now
[11:10] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Okay so it isn't just a wakeup call
[11:14] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Do you use notifications? Or do you open every app to see whether someone sent you a message?
 Florian. I'm a E5 user and selecting smaller icons would be great!
 @Andre Büsgen, Basically we have a push server until end of year running
 Telegram cloud server send notifications there, and they are queued until your device fetches them
 this works by sending a hash to telegram under which they can be retrieved (together with the OAuth from Ubuntu one)
 But unfortunately Telegram sends it as clear text
 so theoretically if you compromise the push server you can read a lot of stuff ^^
[11:17] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> So my messages get stored at the server? Would it be possible to have this server running as local instance on your phone?
[11:17] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Even if it drains battery
 would yes, but telegram is not talking with us. When the server dies first of all the notifications are gone.
 The next thing is to spin up a periodic login to Telegram, to manually poll it
 But it consumes a lot of battery since you need to follow the API protocol which involves connections to up to 5 datacenters
 some crypto stuff and then finally we can retrieve unread message count
 doing this every 5 minutes is a problem
[11:19] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Doesn't seem very efficient😂
 there is a reason why google & apple made very very very efficient push protocols
[11:20] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Damn backup takes years
[11:21] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> I should consider deleting some stuff
[11:35] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> How is it possible that copying files to and from android is still so bad?
[11:36] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Adb is the only way to get these files transferred fast
 I am using rsync over ssh if you do the server method in mdt?
 or you are still on Android?
[11:48] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> I'm still on android
[11:49] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> I'm preparing for flashing
 oki
 (Photo, 960x890) https://irc.ubports.com/lGNumVaS/file_336.jpg
[11:57] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Maybe tomorrow the backup will be complete 😂
[12:05] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> Its time to pray I start flashing now
 hehe good luck
[12:55] <ubports_bot> Project daily-mako build #101: SUCCESS in 12 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-mako/101/
[12:56] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #949: SUCCESS in 49 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/949/
 @Flohack, Good job, thanks
[13:14] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> flashing was successful (after 2nd attempt)
[13:14] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> doesn't telegram for ubports support supergroups yet?
 nope, it was discussed earlier today
 @bastos777, .
 Supergroups: I just started to compile API-36, one before supergroup support will become real
 New branch for that: https://github.com/ubports/libqtelegram-aseman-edition/tree/ubports-API36
 👏 👏👏
 @Flohack, Yay! 🎉
 Hi, how can I use and install chrome or chromium in Meizu Pro 5
 Or select web desktop in browser?
[14:03] <tgBot> mo7am96 was added by: mo7am96
 @mo7am96, Welcome Mohammad!
 @Jaume, Default browser uses Chromium engine, so you're using it already
 Useragent is a problem, but webapps with it modified usually work as expected
 Ok. How can I change?
 And why can I get the group in Meizu 's telegram?
 For a short term fix you could edit the UA in /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Web/UserAgent02.qml
 @Jaume, Because supergroups aren't supported yet but work is in progress. You need to use the web telegram client for now
 👍
 Wow pressure is rising everyday for that supergroups ;)
 Why don't I have access to SD Card?
 @Flohack, Is there any way we could charge a dollar for every message?
 @vanyasem, That is a great idea. (Though I would be down a dollar, honestly if the money goes to UBports development that isn't a bad thing)
 @blendergeek0, You can always support UBports at Patreon
 Already done.
 is the station dock still powered by a RPi
 Have I to install anything to recieve your updates?
 @samzn, I believe so. And I've been thinking about that cursed device this morning. Specifically whether enough phones support high quality hardware video encode that we could take the load off the CPU.
 But I know nothing about the current software, so that tells you a lot
 I think the pi is good enough for a prototype
 Indeed. And the little compute module makes a lot of sense for lower-cost but same-performing devices.
 Also means that people will be able to hack theirs to get more things done with it, which is exciting.
[14:50] <tgBot> <Andre Büsgen> i must say that i like ubports already very much :)
 @Jaume, What updates?
 Updates for Meizu PRO 5
 won't it be? From UBPorts
 Did you flash our channel?
 Flash? No. I just get today the phone
 erm. From where?
 Ok. I will have to get your rom
 I have bough used phone from a guy.
 If it has still Canonical image you need to reflash it
 Here in Barcelona was a boy that sold the Meizu and I bought today.
 cool
 Open updates and look for the number
 Ok. Do I need a pc or linux? Or can I do only with the phone
 Need linux at the moment. Guys here can explain, I am offline now
 offline;)
 lol damn web app bug
 blob:https://web.telegram.org/4bd13638-a4a1-4b74-a978-10cd667a902b
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/nke17KFg/file_338.jpg
 ota 15. that means that you still have canonical version
 i think that you can use magic device tool (linux) to flash it if you want
 @Jaume, https://wiki.ubports.com/wiki/How-to-install-UBports-on-your-deviceI
 use this guide to flash the image
 @Jaume, If you want to test something fun, check out github.com/ubports/ubports-installer . It's still in beta, but it works on all platforms.
 Gnu/Linux, macOS and windows that is
 I'm sorry. I can test a lot of things because the Meizu will be my main phone.
 Ok thanks, I will flash this weekend.
 You excited all the BSD users.
 why is there no SSL certeficate for ci.ubports.com?
 I can't access it from my main PC with enforced https
 huh, that's odd
 @vanyasem, pinging @Flohack
 both stats.ubports.com and ubports.com are working fine though
 Hi
 hey
 hey
 I would like to introduce you to someone who might be useful to you to work for UBports, he / she knows the C / C ++ programming language and other, what interests you?
 @Sconio, Basically, any help is appreciated, so if you have someone interested in the project who is willing to help, go ahead
 @vanyasem, this
 ok..
 I ask him, and I come back with him
 cool
 his pseudo is: z3nnY H0lp2
 https://pastebin.com/WaBaQLkP
 it create MOD on the quake engine 3
 compiling C / C++
 etc
 he has some experiences
 @Flohack, If Possible to add Albanian Lang. I woud Translate :)
[17:42] <tgBot> kz6fittycent was added by: kz6fittycent
 @JeffiG, If you log in you can add any language that's not there yet yourself, it's in one of the menus but only when logged in (forgot which menu)
 I think it's called "add new translation"
 @JeffiG, I think i need to add that to the repo manually. I don't think weblate will do it for .ts files. … What's the albanian locale code? "sq_AL"?
 @DanChapman, It does it fine for Pext and AsteroidOS which both use ts
 If it doesn't it's probably a configuration issue with the repo and I could share my config for Pext which works
 Oh right, https://docs.weblate.org/en/weblate-2.4/formats.html#qt-linguist-ts says otherwise but if it works then yay!
 That's odd, guess that piece of documentation may be outdated because I've always had it work
 I do know that you need to have at least one language set up before it works so that may be it
 ah yeah, could be that. anyway thanks! 😊
 Live??
 Yes, I am alive
 you guys might laugh, but I am gonna try "porting" utouch to grouper...anyone ever attempt it? If so, any gotchas?
 @Lorxu, No it throws an error and tells me I have to turn off new languages for it
 http://youtu.be/MGvo5sGEHmU
 Give me a shout out plzz
 Hey :)
 https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/xnynimnyc5hd7hlwqumohqcxeue
 You can ask questions for the Q&A also here ;)
 Okay :)
 Can you please tell everyone that they're looking supurb today;
 sure ;)
 @Flohack, Do you have a "Base file for new translations" set under Settings -> Files?
 Congratulations on 2nd OTA..
 @Lorxu, Yes but then I cant save the config ^^
 Letz me test after Q&A again
 And I want to thank everybody here, who make Ubuntu Touch possible with their work 👍
 @Flohack, What error?
 @Flohack, Sure, have fun!
 OTA 3??
[18:20] <tgBot> Mathias Bochet was added by: Sconio
[18:21] <tgBot> <Mathias Bochet> Hey guys
 Hey
 Will i receive a notification fot OTA 2 when it will be ready? Can I upload to it without wifi?
 Have you seen the message of alan pope about the core apps jenkins system ( on the openstore telegram group)
 @mymike00, Sorry currently no push notification is made, so you will have to check manually in the system settings/updates. You can do it either by GSM/UMTS, WiFi or if necessary push it with the install howto from your linux machine via adb/fastboot
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/526/ota-3-suggestions-your-wanted-features
 @Flohack, 👍
 We should really make a telegram channel for project updates with links to community updates, blog posts and audiocasts
 And also update announcements
 Would be really handy
 not a bad idea
 But channels aren't visible in the UT telegram app...
 in webtelegram they are
 and i'm sure @Flohack will fix them at some point :D
 Yep but I won't be notified
 😘
 @mymike00, They are visible in Telegram Desktop thought
 You're right
 give me some more time please for supergroups. Today I think there were already 5 questions about when they come 😆
 Or, Ivan brings in some Russian hackers ;)
 we're talking about channels, now...
 Ok same problem probably ;)
 Ah didn't know...
 uh that means maybe I messed up 2 API layers. OMG have to check. Channel and Supergroup 😆
[18:39] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @mariogrip any updates on any new devices?
 I hate them for no documentation
 News from the foundation?
[18:46] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @Flohack thanks 😊
 welcome ^^
[18:47] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> I bought op5
 shiny ;)
[18:49] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> I wish I could do some dev with it but got issues with my laptop... It does not let me install recovery ... Which is first step so I am just waiting for the Mario to get a port working .. if I cannot help Port maybe I will help on some other development stuff.
[18:50] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @Flohack, Yup it's no nice. I am enjoying this device a lot but I do want a Ubuntu Port for it asap 😊
 Its 7 or 7.1 right?
[18:51] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> 7.1 it is
 it runs Halium-7.1
 Ok yes as Marius said, needs Halium to work perfectly for it, then it looks promising
[18:51] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> I am using Android on it as long as I can
 wifi, celluar, vibrator and graphics works so far
[18:52] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> 🤗 @mariogrip I m waiting patiently for it.
[18:53] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Wow
 Question: how far is halium 7 port of ubports?
 (not watching stream, if possible reply here)
 Wait we progressed to scopes, we had this topic 5mins ago ^^
 we go back ofc
 just for you =)
 @bhushanshah, mir needs android 7 support, else then that it shoud work
 +1 for a today indicator. Like that idea
 @DanChapman, 😊
 @mariogrip, Thanks for replying, I would love if someone can work on it, as there are already various halium 7 port and people want to try ubports
[19:02] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Not something important but @Flohack  what are those folders behind your back in BG seems like a lot of them... What are those ..
[19:03] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Just curious
 :P
 This is my collected stuff for household, old magazines, Manuals from university etc
 Nothing I ever use
 got more a decorative touch now
 I maybe pull one of the files each month maximum ^^
 Aaaaand a set of Lord of the Rings books ^^
[19:05] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Hmmm 😄😄 i do have that kind of things too but not in folders.. most of it is in Google doc
 ^^
 Im old style
 did you read my blog post
[19:06] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> I prefer soft copies ...
[19:06] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> @Flohack, Where is it? I would like to.
 https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/flohack-we-are-all-dreamers-65
 Look at the photo :P
[19:08] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> Yup visiting .. as soon as the qa gets over
[19:09] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> But before that I missed first 30 min of qa so I am going to watch it first
 Great community update 👍
 Yes :)
 Thx !
 Thx!
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/qZbPYr8K/file_340.mp4
 developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers developers
 AAAAAAAAAAAAAH
 WAAAAAAAh
[19:13] <tgBot> <Mathias Bochet> developers developers developers developers
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/opItGsEr/file_342.mp4
 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/r0FJbWDK/file_343.mp4
[19:18] <tgBot> DIVYANSH747 was added by: DIVYANSH747
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRm0NDo1CiY
 Marius, thank you a lot for the shout out
 Awesome stream, one of the most exciting ones
 @Flohack, Interesting.. KDE is coming to your city next year for akademy. :D
 Oh wait
 s/city/country
[19:27] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> https://youtu.be/1gI_HGDgG7c … Lol
 On Scopes 'Today' is okay as a "check in" summary, once a day. Some kind of super-notification summary would be better than a  Scope. Nearby Scope the only other but 99% of stuff is there for years, so an updated map function delivers that well. Osmand I love for that, as works offline
 "You guys... are something special." …  I have limited edition glasses from a russian rapper
 There were only 25 sold
 @DanChapman, yes
 @DanChapman, yes it is
[20:01] <J^3> I have been struggling most of the weekend with adb unauthorised. Non of the usual tricks work. Like revoking authorisation in adb. Deleting my ~/.android directory. Any other suggestions. I am trying to root and install lineageOS on my N5. to test the screen issue
 @JeffiG, Ok great, thanks! I will get that added in a little while then.
 @JeffiG I've added the translation so it should sync up to weblate some time soon 😊
[20:21] <tgBot> <Vijay Kumar> "I need more monster" - @mariogrip 😁😁
 @Flohack, Except if yole use Rust
 @garrogarri, 😜
 So, I have the kernel for the Nexus 7 (2012) — don't laugh, I'm practicing porting Utouch— I am trying to find the how-to's for kernel config's etc and the links are bad...anyone have some links I can use?
 There's an unofficial port of Lineage OS 14.1 for it (it's running it now) and I've got the GIT repo bookmarked.  … The phablet dev tools seem to have an entry for Grouper and it builds MINUS the kernel.  … Any pointers?
 As I'm reading the logs, this is what stands out to me: … "No private recovery resources for TARGET_DEVICE grouper" … So, my question is, does the script look in a particular directory for any local sources that I've added?  LOL
 @UniversalSuperBox I am using the guide listed here:  … https://docs.ubuntu.com/phone/en/devices/porting-new-device
 I'd suggest throwing that one out and starting with the Halium docs. http://docs.halium.org/en/latest/porting/index.html
 @UniversalSuperBox, okay. Does the script even work anymore? phablet-dev-tools
 I don't think so
[21:02] <ubports_bot> Project daily-bacon build #257: SUCCESS in 11 min: http://ci.ubports.com/job/daily-bacon/257/
[21:03] <ubports_bot> Project ota-push build #950: SUCCESS in 1 min 2 sec: http://ci.ubports.com/job/ota-push/950/
 OH NO! I forgot to give @sverzegnassi (Openstore) and @mimecar (Ubuntu touch app dev) a shoutout in the Q&A! They're also attending Ubucon Europe and will talk about their work!
 And also @costales ! This is not ending well for me... :D
 I gave you like two chances man!
 Also you didn't put them in the notes.  Lacking in the Canonical version for BQ M10 FHD
 @neothethird, Time to flee the country
 What?
 @Stereofont, Are you having trouble with 802.1x?
 @Stereofont, Always worked for me, also with the Canonical image
 Only offers WPA
 I can't connect to WPA routers
 WPA2 works
 Maybe an FHD thing?
 I never had problems with my BQ phone
 Uh
 You said it didn't work under Canonical's image either?
 Still working on getting UBports. At the moment it is running Canonical
 Didn't work before and now doesn't work following re-install
 Uh... Mister_Q, what do we generally check in this situation?
 Could be faulty hardware in my example I suppose
 Can you connect t oany access point?
 WPA works fine. Some WiFi has extra security of WPA2
 My favourite cafe is WPA2 only
 I have noticed that it times out on entering in a long password, try pre-typing the password in a notepad then pasteing it into the box
 Okay I will try that.  In the dialog when you tap on a connection it says WPA, not WPA/WPA2
 Hi everyone...any idea when the opo's camera will be functional?
 @Stereofont yep same here, that might be a bug, all the networks ive used are wpa2 and it shows wpa in that box for them
[23:53] <pat92> im having a HELL of a time installing Ubuntu Touch on a Kindle Fire gen 1
 also if the password timeout thing isn't an issue, try visiting a webpage first in the cafe - some of those setup a "accept our terms" webpage redirect before general internet will work after connecting @Stereofont
[23:55] <pat92> I have rooted it with SafeRoot and installed fff and twrp but the ubports-installer-0.1.4-beta-x86_64.appimage just Hangs
 You can't install Ubuntu Touch on that device.
 Our supproted devices can be found on https://ubports.com/page/get-ubuntu-touch
 It says opo?
[23:59] <pat92> What is otter?.....https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices


[00:10] <dbro> nouveau has similar - but milder - behavior. Memory usage increases by 0.2MB when I minimize and restore a system monitor window.
[00:10] <dbro> virtual memory increases by a bit more than 2MB
[00:15] <dbro> can anyone else see this same behavior?
[00:29] <dbro> is there more information I can provide? eg xrestop or something like that?
[01:59] <RAOF> dbro: And does that continue to increase indefinately?
[01:59] <RAOF> dbro: Other interesting datapoints include dmesg & Xorg.0.log.
[02:17] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: can you have a look at this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/429384 it is reported against karmic alpha 5 so does it make sense to ask the reporter to check if this problem exists in lucid devel. release and mark the bug incomplete or should I just leave this one alone
[02:20] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, yes, we probably will only care about lucid bugs here on out
[02:21] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: alright so can I'll mark others with karmic tag incomplete :)
[02:22] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, thanks, that'd be a big help
[02:23] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, btw once the original reporter has tested it on lucid, tag it 'lucid'
[02:23] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, when I go through X bugs, I only look at ones tagged 'lucid' now
[02:23] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: np :) oh yeah I'll keep that in mind :)
[02:24] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, generally I don't count it as tested against lucid if some other random person tested it, since they usually haven't provided the full collection of needed info that the original reporter gave
[02:24] <bryceh> and plus, who knows if the person *actually* had the same bug, or just something that seemed similar to them
[02:25] <bryceh> but use your judgment there
[02:25] <bryceh> usually we want the other person to report their issue as a separate bug report.  We have to do that anyway if we upstream the bug.
[02:28] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: alright, thanks for the advice
[02:31] <dbro> RAOF: it increases only when I perform those actions. The increment happens when I trigger it, not simply due to passing time
[02:32] <dbro> RAOF: what should I look for in dmesg? I can't see anything since bootup
[02:33] <dbro> RAOF: and what should I look for in Xorg.0.log? No obvious errors apparent there either
[02:33] <RAOF> dbro: Various forms of nouveau kernel debug spew; also it would allow me to determine a couple of things about your setup such as your card generation, whether it needs firmware, whether it *has* firmware, etc.
[02:34] <RAOF> dbro: Just pastebinning them would be good; I can easily check through them for items of interest.
[02:34] <dbro> ok, should I put it in a pastebin page or something like that?
[02:34] <dbro> ok
[02:38] <dbro> RAOF: re Xorg.0.log - how many lines should I include? It seems to go back to before the current boot
[02:39] <RAOF> dbro: All of them will do.  If you've got “pastebinit” installed, just go “dmesg | pastebinit” and “pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log”.
[02:40] <dbro> RAOF: ok. http://www.pastebin.com/m39087e9d
[02:41] <dbro> and the dmesg is here:  http://www.pastebin.com/m43f96c9f
[02:43] <dbro> and my xorg.conf is http://www.pastebin.com/m764f40e5
[02:43] <dbro> (it's got a lot of commented lines... sorry about that)
[02:45] <RAOF> THat pastebin seems to be empty?
[02:46] <dbro> uh oh...
[02:46] <dbro> first one?
[02:46] <RAOF> The last 2.
[02:47] <dbro> sorry- I should't have included the "www." in those 2.
[02:47] <dbro> so they are http://pastebin.com/m43f96c9f
[02:47] <dbro> and http://pastebin.com/m764f40e5
[02:47] <RAOF> Ta.  I'm off for a while, but I'll have a look at them when I get back.
[02:48] <dbro> thanks, I'll keep an eye on this window
[03:05] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: mission accomplished :) the only bugs left in new state are in lucid
[03:06] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
[03:08] <bryceh> dhillon-v10, nice
[03:08] <dhillon-v10> bryceh: yeah around 33 left, now time to fix them :)
[03:09] <bryceh> actually we'll probably need to have them test against the 2.6.33 drm; quite likely their bugs are fixed there
[03:09] <bryceh> so if we end up bringing that in, we'll be able to close the bugs
[04:46] <RAOF> dbro: Hm.  Interesting.  How much does your graphics actually work again? :).  You've got the nvidia binary driver loading as well, which is unlikely to improve matters :)
[04:47] <RAOF> dbro: Also, you've got quite an old nouveau kernel module which isn't using KMS.
[04:50] <RAOF> That's not necessarily a problem, but it might be fixed in a newer version.  Also, you've got the same chipset as me, so I'll see if I can reproduce it.
[04:57] <RAOF> dbro: I can't reproduce your memleak: I've minimised & restored a system monitor window about 20 times now; memory usage has oscilated between 32MiB and 31.9MiB.  Virtual size has remained static at 154.7MiB.
[04:57] <RAOF> dbro: It might be interesting for you to try a Lucid alpha 3 livecd; that should have nouveau by default so would be a good environment to see if your bug has been fixed.
[05:14] <dbro> ok. is that available now?
[05:16] <dbro> how can I get the extra nvidia driver to not load?
[05:19] <RAOF> Alpha 3 is not yet out; you could either blacklist the nvidia driver or remove the nvidia-source package (I'm not sure what Ubuntu version you're running, so I'm not sure what the exact package name will be).
[06:24] <dbro> RAOF: thanks for the suggestions. I removed the nvidia source package, then rebooted. there was no mention of the nvidia driver in dmesg, only nouveau was loaded. and now I see no change in Memory usage by x when minimizing and restoring the system monitor window. However, I do see an increase in xorg's virtual memory usage when minimizing and restoring the system monitor window.
[06:24] <dbro> about 2MB per minimize,restore cycle
[07:04] <dbro> RAOF: should I try to use a more recent version of nouveau, eg by following these instructions? https://edge.launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers/+archive/nouveau
[07:07] <RAOF> dbro: You could give it a whirl.  Of course, I'd be more interested in your Lucid experience (once Alpha 3 has landed), since that's what we're going to be supporting :)
[07:08] <dbro> upgrading to the lucid versions of the nouveau packages seems to involve a lot of other package removals and upgrades- is there a way to avoid that?
[07:09] <RAOF> You don't want to do that - I was thinking more a livecd situation.
[07:09] <dbro> ok
[07:09] <dbro> I will try the live cd -- expected to be available feb 25, right?
[07:10]  * RAOF rechecks the release schedule.  Why isn't it in my google calendar?
[07:11] <RAOF> Yup.  25th, all things going smoothly.
[07:11] <dbro> thanks again. good night!
[09:43] <tjaalton> bryceh: you need to take nvidia-graphics-drivers a separate entry on the bug chart, it's starting to make the "Remainder" look bad/worse :)
[11:01] <tjaalton> serial wacom support for xserver now in git


[00:02] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses hmm I just saw a new upload of Testdruve
[00:03] <SergioMeneses> mmm...  something especial?
[00:04] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: Removal of python-testdrive causes Testdrive-GTK to crash.
[00:04] <smartboyhw> kirkland has put in a fix for that.
[00:05] <smartboyhw> Damn python-indicate
[00:06] <smartboyhw> not python-testdrive:P
[00:07] <SergioMeneses> jejeje
[00:07] <SergioMeneses> ok, lets see what happen
[00:07] <SergioMeneses> I'm working on "how to separate loco teams"
[00:08] <wxl> it's a miracle: i submitted a result
[00:08] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses: What do you mean? Isn't grouping them better!?
[00:08] <smartboyhw> wxl: \o/
[00:08]  * smartboyhw says bye
[00:08] <wxl> ta
[00:19] <SergioMeneses> I was having dinner :S
[00:19] <SergioMeneses> wxl, congrat
[01:29] <balloons> good work SergioMenesesAFK and smartboyhw
[03:44] <pitti> Good morning
[03:50] <wxl> does alternate need a network connection?? i didn't think it did but after selecting do not set up network, it asks about a mirror
[03:54] <wxl> gonna listen in the car while i do a run
[03:55] <wxl> oops wrong channel :)
[04:03] <pitti> wxl: alternates are supposed to work without network
[04:03] <pitti> wxl: but they still allow you to set up a proxy in case you are going to use one later
[05:10] <wxl> pitti: it's not asking about proxy. it's asking to pick a mirror. this is lubuntu raring-alternate-amd64 20130416
[05:10] <pitti> ah, or that
[05:12] <wxl> i can SWEAR i've done this before, even this cycle, without this problem
[05:21] <pitti> wxl: how is it a problem?
[05:22] <wxl> pitti: currently i only have wifi access. and a b43 chip to boot. i have linux-firmware-nonfree.deb on a flash drive but can dpkg -i it in busybox.
[05:23] <pitti> oh, I thought you were talking about the mirror question
[05:24] <wxl> well, yeah, if i tell it a mirror, it tries to check if its valid by trying to connect to it— even though i've told it not to configure the network
[05:25] <wxl> so it is a problem :)
[05:59] <dholbach> good morning
[07:02] <jibel> good morning
[07:03] <pitti> bonjour jibel
[07:05] <jibel> bonjour pitti , ça va ?
[07:06] <pitti> jibel: ça va bien ! mais NetworkManager est mauvais
[07:08] <pitti> jibel: I fixed the failing NM autopkgtest in bzr, FYI
[07:09] <jibel> pitti, what's wrong with NM? NM itself or the tests ?
[07:28] <pitti> jibel: ah, both; trying to figure out how to poke wpa secrets into it and connect successfully :)
[07:28] <pitti> jibel: and I encountered various crashes and unintrospectability
[11:55] <smartboyhw> balloons, ping me (don't PM) when you are awake:)
[14:03] <balloons> smartboyhw, lol.. I never see your pings
[14:03] <balloons> it's hard to know if it was last night or this morning
[14:18] <smartboyhw> balloons, LOL
[14:18] <smartboyhw> balloons, BTW SergioMenesesAFK's fix is in.
[14:18] <smartboyhw> now REALLY write a blog post:P
[15:03] <smartboyhw> balloons, you ignored me;(
[15:03] <balloons> smartboyhw, ? not ignoring
[15:04] <smartboyhw> balloons, you can't see my sentences above an hour ago?
[15:04] <balloons> I updated to get his fix
[15:04] <smartboyhw> balloons, his = SergioMenesesAFK ?
[15:05] <balloons> ys
[15:05] <smartboyhw> balloons, RC testing tmr.
[15:05] <smartboyhw> What do ya think?:p
[15:06] <balloons> I want to hack on it too.. there's things that bug me (like not being able to make a bigger or smaller disk)
[15:07] <smartboyhw> balloons, I want to make a bigger one. Even 8GB is too small for Ubuntu Studio.
[15:07] <balloons> yea.. I think we can edit the source to do so easy enough
[15:07] <smartboyhw> balloons, let us start hacking in S:p
[15:07] <balloons> anyways, probably not in the cards for me for awhile
[15:07] <smartboyhw> balloons, why?
[15:08] <smartboyhw> A while = how long
[15:08] <balloons> too much other stuff :-) You know how end of cycle is
[15:08] <smartboyhw> balloons, :-)
[15:08] <smartboyhw> balloons, I mean we will start hacking in S cycle:P
[15:08] <balloons> ahh yes
[15:08] <balloons> you've already started!
[15:09] <smartboyhw> balloons, eh damn We = "The whole QA Team"
[15:09] <balloons> indeed.. pretty good stuff
[15:09] <balloons> we could use more/better/cooler/nicer tools
[15:43] <smartboyhw> balloons, please confirm if Testdrive actually has no "double-item" problem
[15:44] <smartboyhw> I mean now
[15:44] <balloons> it no longer does indeed
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Since I still get it
[15:44] <balloons> I'm staring at it
[15:44] <smartboyhw> Hmm
[15:44] <balloons> It showed both for a minute
[15:44] <balloons> i updated again this morning and it looks good now
[15:44] <smartboyhw> balloons, a minute?!:O
[15:44] <balloons> lol.. sorry
[15:44] <smartboyhw> It doesn't work for me here.
[15:44] <balloons> it showed both when I tried last night
[15:44] <balloons> but the update has landed for me now and it works
[15:45] <smartboyhw> balloons, OK
[15:45] <smartboyhw> balloons, or rather: I'm still getting it for i386 (ONLY)
[15:45] <smartboyhw> :O
[15:46] <balloons> ohh.. why lookey there
[15:46] <balloons> your right!
[15:46] <smartboyhw> .....
[15:46] <smartboyhw> And I still see Ubuntu Studio amd64 duplicated.
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Along with i386.
[15:46] <balloons> most of the other flavors are ok
[15:46] <smartboyhw> Lubuntu too
[15:46] <smartboyhw> balloons, not for me
[15:46] <balloons> but everything you said is correct
[15:46] <balloons> I can confirm
[15:46] <smartboyhw> balloons, get SergioMenesesAFK to fix it.:P
[15:47] <smartboyhw> Or, you fix:P
[15:47] <balloons> lol -- we could look at his patch
[15:47] <smartboyhw> Where is the m.p.?
[15:47] <balloons> just for you smartboyhw -- let's have a look
[15:47] <smartboyhw> balloons, ....
[15:47] <balloons> https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[15:48] <smartboyhw> OK let's look at what happened
[15:48] <smartboyhw> It is weird for 1. It doesn't work for i386 and 2. It doesn't work for Ubuntu Studio AND Lubuntu and Ubuntu (Server) for BOTH architectures
[15:49] <balloons> right.. the issue is/was the proposed vs current changes on the server
[15:49] <balloons> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~testdrive/testdrive/trunk/revision/399
[15:49] <balloons> that's the diff
[15:49] <smartboyhw> balloons, it should work.
[15:50] <balloons> so for instance, running that I don't see the duplicates for studio
[15:50] <smartboyhw> balloons, :O
[15:51] <balloons> wget -q -O- http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/.manifest-daily | egrep '(amd64|i386)' | egrep '(current)'
[15:51] <smartboyhw> balloons, it does ONLY for Lubuntu and Ubuntu Studio
[15:52] <smartboyhw> balloons, doesn't at all make sense
[15:52] <balloons> smartboyhw, lets look at what we're running now
[15:52] <smartboyhw> balloons, however can this be a problem with the Precise ISOs?
[15:52] <smartboyhw> balloons, latest ver. (3.20)
[15:52] <balloons> I mean the code :-)
[15:52] <smartboyhw> balloons, LOL
[15:53] <balloons> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/testdrive/testdrive.py
[15:53] <balloons> it's in there
[15:54] <balloons> so.. we can play a little and see why things are coming up properly
[15:54] <smartboyhw> balloons, hmm... I need to sleep now:P
[15:54] <balloons> smartboyhw, ahh.. Well, good night then
[15:54] <balloons> your right though.. it should work
[15:54] <smartboyhw> balloons, I will be idling on mobile for latest upadtes:P
[15:54] <balloons> smartboyhw, :-)
[15:54] <balloons> good night
[15:55] <smartboyhw> balloons, I ran that command in terminal directly
[15:55] <smartboyhw> and it does work
[15:55] <balloons> yep, exactly
[15:55] <smartboyhw> balloons, I am really starting to thank this is a Precise + Raring problem
[15:56] <smartboyhw> But it can't be.
[17:03] <SergioMeneses> hi everybody!
[17:04] <SergioMeneses> how's everything?
[17:05] <balloons> hey SergioMeneses
[17:05] <balloons> for some reason testdrive is sitll showing some dupes in places
[17:07] <SergioMeneses> balloons, do you have the new testdrive version?
[17:08] <SergioMeneses> I dont know if the new features/changes are available now
[17:09] <SergioMeneses> and Andres is attending the openstack summit :S
[17:16] <SergioMeneses> mmm... balloons the version 3.20 was uploaded 17 hours ago
[17:16] <SergioMeneses> https://launchpad.net/testdrive
[17:47] <balloons> SergioMeneses, yes confirmed your change is in my source :-)
[17:47] <balloons> /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/testdrive/testdrive.py
[17:47] <balloons> wget -q -O- http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/.manifest-daily | egrep '(amd64|i386)' | egrep '(current)' returns the proper list too
[17:47] <balloons> so something else is going on
[17:49] <SergioMeneses> balloons, mmm...
[17:49] <SergioMeneses> interesting
[18:13] <SergioMeneses> balloons, Cant not reply your issue
[18:15] <SergioMeneses> balloons, http://ubuntuone.com/1j9oy3mlAQzNZCzzljnYog
[18:15] <SergioMeneses> there is only one entry per iso
[18:15] <SergioMeneses> repository = cdimage.ubuntu.com
[18:16] <SergioMeneses> release = raring
[18:17] <SergioMeneses> someone has the same issue? bug 1162057
[18:19] <SergioMeneses> balloons, you have to update you preferences or delete ~/.cache/testdrive/*.isos
[18:19] <SergioMeneses> it should work
[18:19] <SergioMeneses> ubot5, ping
[18:19] <SergioMeneses> ok, I'm not offline
[18:21] <balloons> ahh
[18:21] <balloons> SergioMeneses, I'll try that in a min
[18:22] <SergioMeneses> balloons, ok! if you have another issue let me know :D
[18:33] <balloons> ok, I've got a moment, let me try now
[18:34] <balloons> ahh SergioMeneses the cdimage.isos and releases.isos files
[18:34] <balloons> :-)
[18:35] <balloons> hehe.. it's caches them
[18:35] <SergioMeneses> balloons, or update your preferences as well
[18:35] <balloons> ok so probably worth posting to the list
[18:35] <phillw> SergioMenesesI have a work-around for the KVM corrupt video using cirrus, and qxl shows no video at all, vmvga seems to be best for me at the moment, please feel free to check it out.
[18:35] <balloons> updating preferences didn't seem to work :-)
[18:36] <balloons> rm ~/.cache/testdrive/cdimage.isos
[18:38] <SergioMeneses> phillw, I'm using as hypervisor KVM and it works well
[18:39] <SergioMeneses> using thias args: "-usb -usbdevice tablet -net nic,model=virtio -net user -soundhw es1370 -vga cirrus"
[18:46] <phillw> SergioMenesesmost odd, as it is still an upstream bug!
[18:47] <phillw> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58574
[18:56] <SergioMeneses> balloons, smartboyhw hi!
[18:58] <SergioMeneses> I saw the previous conversation and I dont see problems with ubuntu-studio or Lubuntu
[18:58] <balloons> SergioMeneses, yes everything works after clearing that cahce file
[18:58] <balloons> I posted to the ml as well
[18:59] <SergioMeneses> phillw, :)  but they have to fix it, right? or here Ubuntu people may help
[18:59] <balloons> smartboyhw will see it tomorrow :-) he had the issue to
[18:59] <SergioMeneses> balloons, perfect! :D I'm glad to hear that
[19:00] <phillw> SergioMeneses I'm not holding my breath. using vmvga does make grub screen 'vga' resolution, but then the actual VM when booted is back to  a decent size :)
[19:01] <phillw> qxl fails in my virt-manager edition, once I'm fully using 13.04 I will have a further look.
[19:01] <balloons> SergioMeneses, phillw here's something that may interest you: http://<IP_ADDRESS>/
[19:01]  * SergioMeneses looks at balloons link with fear
[19:01] <SergioMeneses> balloons, omg!!!
[19:02] <SergioMeneses> where did you find those charts?
[19:02] <balloons> It's a sneak preview of what I've been working on
[19:02] <balloons> I generated the charts.. it's showing off some of the team's work :-0
[19:03] <SergioMeneses> balloons, it is awesome!!!
[19:04] <balloons> :-) There is more to do.. we can do a lot with generating some data to help drive what we do
[19:08] <SergioMeneses> balloons, sounds pretty clever! I was thinking on make a post about my testing activities on this cycle and another one about fixing bugs in Spanish
[19:08] <balloons> SergioMeneses, excellent!
[19:10] <SergioMeneses> balloons, but next week or this weekend
[19:15] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello :-)
[19:15] <Letozaf_> balloons, hello :D
[19:15] <balloons> SergioMeneses, I've got posts to write too.. I know how it is :-)
[19:16] <Letozaf_> SergioMeneses, o/
[19:16] <SergioMeneses> Letozaf_, \o
[19:29] <balloons> ok smartboyhw can rest easy.. I posted about testdrive as I said :-)
[19:30] <balloons> I am very excited and happy to see how you all have stepped out to learn and try something new. It's very encouraging for others -- and a hope a wonderful experience for all of you
[19:32] <phillw> balloons: well, from sunday, you will hopefully have some more testers on-board. If you can dig up stats of which flavors / areas need some extra help, let me know by Saturday evening (UTC). I'll pull a range of IOS's in to travel to Manchester with.
[19:33] <balloons> phillw, did you see the page I shared?
[19:33] <balloons> I would be curious what sort of detail you'd like to see
[19:33] <balloons> I thought your talk was last saturday :-)
[19:33] <phillw> balloons: I've had a quick look, I'll be fully back in ~30 mins.
[19:33] <balloons> must be why I didn't hear back about what happened!
[19:33] <balloons> :-)
[19:34] <phillw> balloons: nope, it is this Sunday. I thought it was last sunday, also... Then double checked when I realised it was not RC week :D
[19:35] <balloons> gotcha.. you fooled us all!
[19:36] <phillw> I'd have been disappointed to travel  for 2 hours to get there for the wrong week!
[19:46] <zyga> hey is there any update on a friendly
[19:46] <zyga> I was experimenting with a new service
[19:47] <zyga> for storing hardware manifests on the web
[20:03] <phillw> (20:46:04) zyga: hey is there any update on a friendly ???
[20:04] <zyga> phillw, re
[20:04] <zyga> IRC on Android is a bit flaky
[20:05] <zyga> that we've been playing with a new service
[20:06] <zyga> service to store hardware manifests in the cloud
[20:07] <phillw> zyga: I'm not familiar with android. But it may be possible to store them as a part of http://phillw.net/isos/
[20:07] <phillw> if you are looking for somewhere to store them.
[20:10] <zyga> what I was thinking of
[20:11] <zyga> is a service that would give you a hardware details
[20:11] <zyga> based on a unique arbitrary id
[20:12] <zyga> this data could be used to know which tests are compatible
[20:12] <zyga> without asking the user
[20:13] <zyga> however the same database could be maintained by community for them to friendly
[20:13] <zyga> for ubuntu friendly
[20:15] <zyga> for example the type of the touchpad
[20:15] <phillw> the wiki area can do that, I'm not too sure what the in-line attachement size is, but I do know that a couple of ubuntu.pastes have just gone time expired which held details of computer equipment. so, it is best to try the wiki area first, if it is too big for them, you need somewhere that does not allow details to go time expired.
[20:15] <balloons> zyga, the hooks for hexr <-> friendly should done now..
[20:15] <zyga> edge scrolling vs two finger scrolling
[20:16] <zyga> is the hexer data model sufficient for that?
[20:17] <zyga> how could I describe the type of a touchpad
[20:17] <balloons> zyga, you were there when it was discussed yes?
[20:17] <phillw> zyga: have a chat with the laptop-testing team, who also use friendly.
[20:18] <phillw> unless balloons can recall everything :)
[20:18] <zyga> balloons, yes u think so
[20:19] <zyga> how can I find that team?
[20:20] <phillw> zyga: laptop testing can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Laptop/Procedures
[20:21] <zyga> si
[20:21] <zyga> sorry, anyone from that team that I can ping?
[20:22] <phillw> balloons: I don't have a team listing for laptop-team. Do you know if any are about?
[20:23] <balloons> not usually on irc
[20:23] <balloons> *they are not
[20:24] <phillw> zyga: join the team via https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-laptop-testing once joined, you can join the mailing list.
[20:25] <zyga> thanks
[20:26] <phillw> zyga: they do use this channel for discussions, but as with a lot of QA/Testing teams they do not have a lot of people on here at any one time (usually just for meet ups).
[20:42] <phillw> balloons: are you keeping up to date with Lance re: New upgrade test - via live image ?
[20:43] <balloons> phillw, feel free to point those things out.. I've been digging through my mail today.. my filters are all messed up
[20:44] <balloons> i can't follow the threads easily enough. I've missed several lance responses
[20:48] <phillw> balloons: http://pastebin.com/59gnaGXt
[20:49] <phillw> balloons: one the google mail servers was down today, so I've also had issues!
[20:49] <balloons> ahh.. ok, the upgrade thing
[20:50] <phillw> yup, I've got an issue with alternate. which is not too critical (it just doesn't work!).
[20:51] <balloons> yes, what xnox wrote is correct.. and we had a conversation a bit ago about it
[20:53] <phillw> okies, thanks balloons :)
[20:54] <phillw> balloons: but, from that, 'can' we actually test before final release?
[20:58] <xnox> hmm....
[20:59] <xnox> phillw: imho the upgrade test was always based on previous release install. E.g. install ubuntu12.10, put in raring image, perform upgrade.
[21:00] <xnox> (using cd option)
[21:00] <xnox> phillw: unless you refer to the upgrade section, which is esentially test upgrade-manager from quantal install into current dev.
[21:01] <balloons> yes exactly. I'm trying to dig up the email for lance.. but upgrade was always intended to go from the previous release to the current (dev) release
[21:01] <balloons> we also push out lts ->lts upgrade tests when that comes up
[21:02] <balloons> the fact you can 'upgrade' a current install using a cd will remain, but it's hardly something we want to test or support imho
[21:05] <phillw> xnox: Yeah, that's fine. I'm just sad that cdromupgrade from alternate wants to go and download from internet. but, hey, such is life.
[21:07] <phillw> is just a way to force lubuntu to drop alternate :(
[21:07] <phillw> *is this just*
[21:08] <phillw> balloons: that email is from wxl
[21:08] <phillw> balloons: http://pastebin.com/h0z4uHky
[21:09] <wxl> yeah that irks me.
[21:09] <balloons> phillw, wxl lol.. did you report it?
[21:09] <balloons> afaik, there's no intention to stop a non-network install
[21:10] <wxl> outside of reporting it to the list, no. i wanted to be sure it was not like a change in plans or something, balloons.
[21:10] <balloons> ahh.. not to my knowledge
[21:10] <wxl> ok
[21:10] <wxl> then i should file a bug against.....?
[21:11] <wxl> UGH WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR KDE TO INPUT UNICODE?!</digress>
[21:11] <balloons> ahh found it
[21:12] <balloons> file a bug against debian-installer
[21:12] <phillw> wxl: can you bug report it. I've asked the likes of jonathan and unit193 to have a look at the script for cdromupgrade as lubuntu are the only ones now using it. I tried to update piglet using alternate and it wanted to download everything, even though the ISO was mounted and visisble,.
[21:12] <balloons> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/243/builds/42246/buginstructions
[21:12] <wxl> phillw: note i'm trying to install, not upgrade
[21:13] <wxl> balloons: i thought the alternate installer != ubiquity?
[21:13] <phillw> wxl: note that in either case, it is not reading the source iso (either cd / dvd /usb in your case, or on a loop mount as in mine).
[21:13]  * wxl nods
[21:14] <balloons> wxl, sorry wrong link
[21:14] <phillw> wxl: can you try and install the corresponding server ISO
[21:14] <balloons> but yes, debian-installer is where to file against :-)
[21:14] <wxl> phillw: yeah was going to work on that next
[21:14] <wxl> balloons: thanks that's what i needed. i couuld remember ubiquity but not debian-installer
[21:15] <phillw> if that fails, then it is a generic alternate fail, mine is for upgrade which is now lubuntu only. (server do not do upgrades from alternate ISO, which did come as a shock to me!)
[21:18] <phillw> balloons: does (should) the desktop 64 bit version of 13.04 work with UEFI across all flavours, or is it Ubuntu only?
[21:18] <wxl> i'll get to reporting the bug later tonight
[21:21] <balloons> phillw, ahh good question. the work was done at the low level, I don't see why it wouldn't work across flavors. I would wonder about the alternate installers tho
[21:21] <balloons> That said I don't have UEFI hardware
[21:22] <balloons> i answered Lance hopefully that is helpful
[21:22] <phillw> I'm not worried about alternate. But one of the guys has provided a link to the OP
[21:36] <SergioMeneses> great post balloons http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2013/04/filling-gaps.html
[21:36] <xnox> phillw: you are doing it wrong.
[21:37] <xnox> balloons: phillw: the alternate-cd has complete apt-getable pool of package. To perform "offline" upgrade from cd using alternate, one is suppose to add the cd-rom as a package repositoy and simply do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade and/or equivalent using any gui package managent.
[21:38] <phillw> xnox: so the idea of mounting the ISO was never feasible?
[21:39] <xnox> balloons: phillw: if one boots the alternate-cd installer and tries to use "partman reuse recipe" (aka. what ubiquity calls upgrade) the insllation path is different - a snapshot of installed packages is taken, then more or less /usr is wiped clean, then normal installation happens (for ubiquity that is copy squashfs, for alternate it is debootstrap)
[21:39] <xnox> and then later the apt-clone snapshot is restored to install any remaining packages that where there before.
[21:40] <xnox> phillw: the problem with upgrading from alternate iso, is that it will inherently lack transitional packages needed to complete an upgrade from previous release and will totally failt to upgrade if there are external packages installed.
[21:40] <phillw> xnox: I do recall doing something "similar" to this a couple of releases ago.
[21:40] <phillw> http://linuxpoison.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/how-to-upgrade-ubuntu-using-alternate.html
[21:40] <xnox> which is the reason for network-based upgrades.
[21:41] <xnox> in the end of the day, we can only support network based upgrades with main&universe enabled, anything else has a lot of chances being incomplete and removing packages.
[21:43] <phillw> xnox: is that why you guys dropped alternate from everywhere? I'm quite okay if alternate can no longer 'do' an upgrade from 12.10 to 13.04, but I did want to see if it still could.
[21:44] <phillw> if it is something that needs changing in cdromupgrade script, and only lubuntu use it, then I see no harm in asking them to look into it?
[21:46] <phillw> xnox: One of the guys who wants to take a look at the problem has asked for 'where does the autobuild script live on so if it can be made to work for lubuntu?
[21:46] <xnox> phillw: huh.... i am confused by that statement. there is no "you guys" i'm just trying to tell you what alternate cd can do or can't do. It applies for all ubuntu releases ever made and still applies for alternate cds generated today for lubuntu or ubuntu.
[21:46] <xnox> ubuntu project stopped generating alternate images for a few producs (ubuntu and some other flavours) but the code is still out there and one can generate an alternate cd by them self.
[21:46] <phillw> xnox: ubuntu server does not use alternate as a method to upgrade a server (which was a shock to me).
[21:47] <phillw> only lubuntu now release alternate for desktop systems.
[21:47] <xnox> phillw: if in 12.10 lubuntu had a default app "MegaAwesome", but 13.04 dropped it from the default install, "MegaAwesome" is not on the cd any more.
[21:48] <xnox> thus using lubuntu 13.04 alternate cd to upgrade without network connectivity can fail with cryptic errors of "broken pacakges", "unsatisfyable dependencies" and avalanche of package removals.
[21:48] <phillw> xnox: so, there is no longer any way, any one can upgrade any 12.10 to 13.04 unless they are hooked up to the internet?
[21:49] <wxl> personally i'd like to just INSTALL with alternate :)
[21:49] <xnox> phillw: this has always been the case. We pretended that we can upgrade using a package pool from an iso, with a big note that you may require internet or pre-download of somewhere "all remaining package that no longer are present ont he cd, or manually installed"
[21:50] <phillw> wxl: if you have a seperate /home (which we're told we no longer in need of), you can :D
[21:50] <phillw> xnox: okies, I'm not having a row... I think I did it in something like 11.04 --> 11.10.
[21:50] <xnox> wxl: alternate-cd, server-cd, mini-iso and pxe boot use "d-i install interface". The alternate-cd is not published, but you can totally use server-cd/mini-iso/pxe boot to do any flavour desktop installation using that d-i interface.
[21:51] <xnox> but big notice that it will fetch a lot of packages over the internet, so either have a local apt-proxy / mirror / fast-link.
[21:53] <phillw> xnox: AHH!!! that is what is was.... you need a local mirror of the repos to be changed.... sorry, it's been over 12 months since I did one in the classroom for a red-hat upgrade (6.2 --> 6.3). So, it could never be CD sized.
[21:54] <SergioMeneses> balloons, will we maintain test-drive?
[21:54]  * SergioMeneses is reading old emails
[21:55] <phillw> alternate can only be used as install because the images generally have gotten far too large.
[21:55] <wxl> xnox: again, the alternate IS published. it's called lubuntu :)
[21:55] <wxl> and i have used alternate lubuntu to install the system without a network, but somehow, quite recently, that changed
[21:55] <wxl> i have never set up any sort of local mirror/proxy/etc
[21:56] <phillw> SergioMeneses it will be a team event, the guys working (almost alone, and un loved) now have some friends to enthuse them :)
[21:57] <xnox> wxl: one can use d-i based images (lubuntu alternate, ubuntu server) or ubiquity based images to perform offline installation.
[21:57] <phillw> wxl: yeah, I saw that email, xnox did something change in debian-installer recently?
[21:58] <xnox> wxl: but an upgrade using ubiquity images without network should not be possible.
[21:58] <wxl> xnox: not right now you can't. that's the problem. you say you don't want the network configured, and it asks for a mirror, which means it then checks to see if the mirror is up and since the network isn't configured, it fails. game over.
[21:58] <wxl> xnox: *I* am not talking about upgrades
[21:58] <xnox> wxl: package pool update (aka mount alternate iso or server iso) should be possible offline.
[21:58] <phillw> xnox: http://pastebin.com/h0z4uHky
[21:59] <wxl> xnox: "should" be possible, yes. is possible now, no.
[21:59] <xnox> wxl: d-i based upgrade (aka boot alternate iso or server iso & choose to upgrade) should _not_ be possible offline.
[21:59] <phillw> wxl: saves you digging up the email :)
[21:59] <xnox> phillw: wxl: i don't read pastebins, I deal with bug reports, have you filed a bug report with log details?
[22:00] <wxl> xnox: i like to check to see if i didn't miss something before filing bug reports. i'll report one later.
[22:00] <xnox> yes we do try to connect to a mirror, but that should timeout when offline and install should succeed just fine. that also has always been the case ("the attempt to talk to mirror bit")
[22:00] <xnox> not quite sure what you mean by "game over"
[22:00] <wxl> xnox: it goes back to asking about a mirror. can't proceed.
[22:01] <phillw> xnox: this is an install error, but it's only after a couple of days of discussion can we ensure the bug is filed in correct place. We don't want to file bugs in the wrong that place etc.
[22:03] <phillw> xnox: sorry that you have walked into the middle of this, we did catch balloons earlier about such issues and he did suggest where to file the bug. Just gone a bit crazy with other questions :(
[22:05] <wxl> true nuff
[22:10] <phillw> wxl: can you raise the bug, as per balloons ' suggestion as to where. That way they can look into it.
[22:10] <wxl> as i said before, phillw, i will make sure to do it when i get home
[22:11] <phillw> Thanks,
[22:13] <phillw> Ohh, and one for everyone... My, and others, dedicated email systems powered by google were off line earlier... The best bit? They are now honest
[22:13] <phillw> (17:03:17) XXXX XXXX: I laughed when xxxx xxxx on the phone said "Even Google's big and bad servers need upgrades and a reboot now and then." -.-:;
[22:13] <phillw> Made my day :D
[22:14] <balloons> SergioMeneses, I don't think we have to maintain testdrive so to speak to do patches to it :-)
[22:15] <phillw> ooh, balloons has taken off his bullet proof vest :P
[22:21] <SergioMeneses> balloons, phillw ok :)
[23:39] <smartboyhw> SergioMeneses ah ah that's why.


[00:41] <doko> rbasak, jamespage: please could you give some advice on libapache2-mod-python ? do we need a python3 package in parallel, or can we drop the python2 package?
[00:45] <doko> rbasak, cpaelzer: is there a need for platform.bionic/supported-misc-servers: * graphviz ?
[06:00] <cpaelzer> doko: rbasak: graphviz was added long before my time, as far as I can see it is in since the beginning
[06:01] <cpaelzer> I looked around in bugs and bzr but found no statement why it was added
[06:01] <cpaelzer> rbasak: do you have more history of this in your memory?
[06:03] <cpaelzer> it is back from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/platform.hardy/revision/125
[06:03] <cpaelzer> and moved several times due to restructures since then
[06:05] <cpaelzer> it was back then added to Desktop => other
[06:05] <cpaelzer> I'd assume it was moved incorrectly since then
[06:06] <cpaelzer> doko: rbasak: your opinion what to do now?
[07:23] <LocutusOfBorg> doko, ehm... context? graphviz?
[07:29] <doko> LocutusOfBorg: what else, that was part of the original message here
[07:30] <LocutusOfBorg>     - Build without gts support since the library is still in universe
[07:30] <LocutusOfBorg>     - Don't build-depend on libann-dev since it's in universe
[07:30] <LocutusOfBorg> you mean this, right?
[07:31] <doko> yes
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/graphviz/2.38.0-15ubuntu1
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg> this is the first time gts has been disabled
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg> and this the first time libann-dev has been disabled https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/graphviz/2.38.0-16ubuntu1
[07:32] <LocutusOfBorg> both are jbicha ^^
[07:43] <doko> ahh, ok, then the question goes to somebody else ...
[07:43] <doko> cpaelzer: my assumption is that the seed wasn't reviewed after we don't require b-d's in main anymore ...
[08:16] <cpaelzer> doko: sounds reasonable
[08:30] <cpaelzer> of the current b-d's to graphvis the following are in main and might have been the old reason it was added apt, corosync, doxygen, dpkg, gcc, imagemagick, pacemaker, schroot
[08:31] <cpaelzer> none has it as real depends or recommends
[08:31] <cpaelzer> I'd guess it can be reomved, but then of you rbasak and me I'm clearly the least experienced
[08:32] <cpaelzer> rbasak: your opinion on the graphviz question by doko?
[09:07] <JEBjames> Is there an eta on the 18.04 daily server getting fixed (tar extract bug fails install)?
[09:09] <JEBjames> I have a script I run that can manually work around it when the install errors out but it's kind of a pain.
[09:55] <jibel> could someone have a look at bug 1723198 ? it's breaking the upgrade from 14.04 to 16.04
[10:42] <eoli3n> Hi
[10:43] <eoli3n> when using kickstart with netboot of 16.04, it's not possible to use sfdisk in %pre section
[10:44] <eoli3n> if i understand well, problem is that busybox for netboot install have not be compiled with parted fdisk or sfdisk. Problem is that thoses tools are installed by debian-installer before proceding installation.
[10:44] <eoli3n> So when %pre is executed, debian-installer has not run yet
[10:45] <cjwatson> you can't do that sort of thing in %pre, indeed, but you could do it by using the 'preseed' extension directive to set partman/early_command to the text of a script that calls sfdisk
[10:45] <eoli3n> and sfdisk, etc are not present. is there any way to get sfdisk working in %pre section of a kickstart installation ?
[10:46] <eoli3n> cjwatson: i did
[10:46] <cjwatson> since partman/early_command runs somewhat later, just before the partitioner starts
[10:46] <eoli3n> ahhhh EARLY !
[10:46] <eoli3n> i didn't found it, lets try
[10:47] <eoli3n> lets try : http://sprunge.us/eRHH
[10:49] <cjwatson> I am not sure that a file name will work there.
[10:49] <cjwatson> Checking.
[10:49] <eoli3n> cjwatson: you're a god... i'm fighting with kickstart since 5 days...
[10:49] <eoli3n> it worked
[10:50] <cjwatson> Oh, yeah, I guess it will, it'll be passed to sh -c and that'll exec it.
[10:50] <cjwatson> Excellent
[10:50] <eoli3n> i did set shebang in script
[10:51] <eoli3n> lets go eating, maybe i will come get a bit more help later
[10:51] <eoli3n> thx a lot cjwatson
[10:51] <cjwatson> np
[11:50] <sil2100> coreycb: hey! Could you make sure LP: #1731595 is verified? I guess the artful openstack stack would be good to release 'all together', but this one neutron bug is not verified
[12:16] <eoli3n> so cjwatson
[12:16] <eoli3n> here is my kickstart file : https://ptpb.pw/2fun
[12:16] <eoli3n> the early partman command works
[12:16] <eoli3n> problem is that installer still prompting for manual partitionning
[12:17] <eoli3n> i removed clearpart
[12:17] <eoli3n> it seems that when no clearpart --all is set, it keeps prompting
[12:20] <cjwatson> eoli3n: I'm not sure I sufficiently understand what your sfdisk thing is for - you're trying to override some limited bit of the installer's partitioning code, I think?
[12:25] <eoli3n> cjwatson: i need sfdisk to overwrite the partition table, and let partman use first partition as a windows one, without erasing it
[12:25] <eoli3n> it that case
[12:25] <eoli3n> if windows is already there, its not broken
[12:25] <eoli3n> and if not, partition is initialized
[12:26] <eoli3n> is there anyway to perform an automatic installation without setting clearpart --all ?
[12:26] <eoli3n> clearpart --linux dont work too
[12:26] <eoli3n> doesnt
[12:26] <cjwatson> clearpart --all basically just turns into preseeding partman-auto/disk, and without that the automatic partitioner won't run
[12:27] <eoli3n> problem is that it initialize a fake partition table to be sure to destroy all datas
[12:27] <eoli3n> in redhat documentation
[12:27] <cjwatson> I think you need --onpart or --usepart to be implemented in our Kickstart implementation, but they're not
[12:28] <eoli3n> ah ok !
[12:28] <eoli3n> it is
[12:28] <eoli3n> but i can't mix --onpart, and part
[12:28] <eoli3n> maybe
[12:28] <cjwatson>                         --onpart|--usepart|--ondisk|--ondrive|--start|--end)
[12:28] <cjwatson> the RH documentation is not necessarily accurate for Ubuntu; we've implemented a compatibility layer
[12:28] <cjwatson>                                 # TODO: --ondisk/--ondrive supported with LVM
[12:28] <cjwatson>                                 warn "unsupported restriction '$1'"
[12:28] <eoli3n> hm, so your point for now, is that i need to write all partition table with sfdiks
[12:28] <eoli3n> sfdisk
[12:28] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/ch04s06.html#kickstart documents the differences
[12:29] <cjwatson> no, I don't think that would work either
[12:29] <eoli3n> and use only --onpart
[12:29] <cjwatson> no
[12:29] <eoli3n> hm
[12:29] <cjwatson> --onpart is unimplemented
[12:29] <eoli3n> ah !
[12:29] <eoli3n> should i use preseed commands here ?
[12:29] <cjwatson> right, I think you'll need to do that
[12:30] <cjwatson> figure out the necessary partitioning recipe in preseeding language, and drop down to that
[12:30] <eoli3n> cjwatson: where can i read that ubuntu kickstart implementation does not support --onpart ?
[12:30] <cjwatson> mm, it's possible the documentation doesn't say that.  I implemented all this to start with but I no longer work on it ...
[12:31] <eoli3n> ah so i found the right dev, good point
[12:31] <cjwatson> I looked it up in the code to refresh my memory
[12:31] <eoli3n> i don't know how works preseed, it seems a bit harder
[12:31] <eoli3n> ok so lets preseed
[12:31] <cjwatson> https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apb.html
[12:31] <cjwatson> in particular https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/installation-guide/amd64/apbs04.html#preseed-partman
[12:31] <eoli3n> oh thx
[12:32] <cjwatson> and you may need to refer to https://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=d-i/debian-installer.git;a=blob;f=doc/devel/partman-auto-recipe.txt;h=bc8b541c59b319147db652f8db01f5c4f427b249;hb=HEAD for detailed recipe syntax
[12:33] <cjwatson> I probably can't help very much more.  If you still run into trouble you may be able to find other people in #ubuntu-installer who are more current
[12:33] <coreycb> sil2100: all set i've marked that bug as verified for artful
[12:56] <eoli3n> cjwatson: just something to clarify, if i use partman preseed, must 'clearpart --all' be set for an automatic install ?
[13:04] <cjwatson> eoli3n: not if you separately preseed partman-auto/disk
[13:22] <michael-vb> Afternoon.
[13:23] <michael-vb> apw: I believe that you are in charge of the vbox* guest modules in the Ubuntu kernel packages?
[13:24] <michael-vb> I am wondering how easy it would be for you to update the versions in supported Ubuntu distributions.  The newer the better of course, but the versions in the current mainline kernel would do too.  We had an ABI break after 5.1.
[13:24] <cjwatson> eoli3n: oh and also partman-auto/method will probably need to be preseeded to 'regular'
[13:24] <cjwatson> sorry, forgot about that bit
[13:25] <eoli3n> cj i just did, i'm searching for a way to set vars with dialog installer, then get my recipe string
[13:25] <michael-vb> Of course, our upstream/out-of-tree versions might make your life easier, as the code is intended to build on older kernels.  They carefully stripped that out of the mainline ones.
[13:25] <eoli3n> cjwatson:
[13:25] <cjwatson> I don't know what you mean by "set vars with dialog installer"
[13:25] <eoli3n> install manually with keyboard
[13:25] <cjwatson> please note that you cannot use the interactive installer to work out a recipe
[13:25] <eoli3n> not writing the recipe
[13:25] <eoli3n> ah
[13:26] <eoli3n> sad :/
[13:26] <cjwatson> it is a bit unfortunate, but there you go
[13:27] <eoli3n> thx for information
[13:35] <jbicha> LocutusOfBorg: vbox discussion ^
[13:37] <michael-vb> jbicha: he knows.
[13:37] <michael-vb> Thanks.
[13:37] <michael-vb> It was follow-up from #vbox-dev.
[13:39] <eoli3n> cjwatson: its a bit tricky with generators but it still prompt, it should not : https://ptpb.pw/B40N
[13:39] <eoli3n> cjwatson: oh wait
[13:40] <eoli3n> sorry for that, didn't read doc until end :/
[13:42] <cjwatson> gonna have to redirect you to other people in #ubuntu-installer for anything more, I'm afraid
[13:45] <eoli3n> huhu ok, thx a lot for your help
[13:48] <cjwatson> (not sure whether anyone else is around at the moment, but should be eventually ...)
[14:38] <doko> xnox: none of the URL's in amd64-microcode's copyright file are working. are you aware of working links?
[14:39] <xnox> ha
[15:15] <michael-vb> apw: have to go.  Would you be able to e-mail regarding the above?  michael dot thayer at oracle.  Thanks!
[16:00] <coreycb> sil2100: would you have a chance to look at releasing bug 1734990 today? it has some critical fixes, including CVEs.
[16:06] <sil2100> coreycb: thanks! Yeah, if it's marked as ready then let me release that in a moment
[16:10] <Laney> apt resolver question...
[16:10] <Laney> ...given this https://paste.ubuntu.com/26183841/ preferences file (generated by autopkgtest)
[16:11] <Laney> would you expect to be able to install python3-distutils from bionic + bionic-proposed atm?
[16:11] <Laney> The following packages have unmet dependencies: python3-distutils : Depends: python3 (>= 3.6.3-2) but 3.6.3-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[16:11] <Laney> i.e. it doesn't want to select bionic-proposed's python3
[16:12] <doko> rbasak: do you agree about dropping graphviz from the seeds?
[16:12] <coreycb> sil2100: thanks!
[16:13] <doko> Laney: yes, I would expect that
[16:13] <Laney> I can install it if I add python3/bionic-proposed explicitly
[16:13] <Laney> basically, halp
[16:16] <doko> if it helps, I can lower the python3-distutils : Depends: python3 (>= 3.6.3-2) requirement
[16:22] <Laney> I suppose it would, or we can queue with an extra trigger on python3-defaults
[16:23] <Laney> Would like to understand why apt doesn't want to select -proposed's python3 though
[16:23] <Laney> Broken python3-distutils:amd64 Depends on python3:amd64 < none -> 3.6.3-0ubuntu2 @un puN > (>= 3.6.3-2) Considering python3:amd64 10003 as a solution to python3-distutils:amd64 10004
[16:26]  * Laney will requeue the tests
[16:30] <rbasak> dpb1, kirkland: ^ can we drop graphviz from the seeds?
[16:31] <doko> ok, afk now, maybe upload yourself when needed. it should be safe (tm) ...
[16:34] <doko> RAOF: are you uploading things for the mir transition?
[16:36] <jbicha> doko: btw, it looks like you'll need to drop some imagemagick -dev pkgs to universe in order to demote src:graphviz
[16:40] <doko> jbicha: hmm, where is the dependency?
[16:40] <doko> I only see it in B-D-I
[16:42] <rbasak> doko: FTR, I'm fine with dropping graphviz if kirkland and dpb1 are happy.
[16:43] <doko> ok, let's wait
[16:46] <jbicha> doko: libmagickcore-6.q16-dev depends on libgraphviz-dev for instance but there are a few more related ones
[16:47] <doko> wondering why ... I'll have a look. there are no b-d's ...
[16:47] <dpb1> rbasak: What does it gain in dropping?
[16:48] <dpb1> doko: any idea why it was in the seed to begin with?  seems like a very odd package to be installed by default
[16:48] <doko> # libgraphviz-dev, incompatible license against fftw
[16:48] <doko> dpb1: no, as others noticed, it's a very old seed
[16:50] <rbasak> dpb1: I can only defer that question to doko really. doko: what does it gain in dropping?
[16:50] <rbasak> ~ubuntu-server wouldn't have to maintain it once demoted, but I presume there's another reason you're asking?
[16:51] <dpb1> so, take it out of the seed *and* out of main, I guess you are asking
[16:52] <jbicha> doko: cool, obsolete dependency then :)
[16:52] <rbasak> dpb1: that's correct. Though in theory our team declares what we want to explicitly keep in main as part of our product via the seeds. So from our perspective it's both. Do we need it in our product as a top level item?
[16:53] <rbasak> From my POV that's what doko is asking us.
[16:54] <jbicha> graphviz showed up in our gtk2 demotion list, also we diverge from Debian because a few graphviz features require universe deps
[16:56] <doko> rbasak, dpb1: we still need it as a b-d for packages in main, so if things fail we have to fix it anyway. but we don't officially support it. yes, and one more step towards GTK2 demotion
[16:57] <dpb1> ok, that goal I agree with
[16:58] <dpb1> doko: +1
[16:58] <dpb1> doko: kirkland is traveling, might be best to email him so this isn't lost
[19:19] <sil2100> cpaelzer: hey! Do you plan on merging exim4 in the nearest days again?
[19:21] <sil2100> cpaelzer: asking since I saw you did the last merge, and the new version in Debian removes the lynx-cur dependency that is needed to get rid of an NBS
[19:21] <sil2100> It's always best to just fix this with a merge to have two birds with one stone
[19:37] <mdeslaur> so what's the latest with debug packages? If I have a package that has a delta to generate a -dbg, do I drop that and do the --dbgsym-migration ?
[19:39] <mdeslaur> or do I just carry the delta and keep the -dbg?
[20:06] <slashd> slangasek, infinity o/ I've been told you might be able to help or at least get me started on how to approach the following bug : LP: #1733018. (dpkg: cycle found while processing triggers:) thanks in advance.
[20:07] <slashd> sorry ^ LP: #1723198
[20:08] <slangasek> slashd: infinity is out.  I can give you general pointers wrt trigger cycles, but I don't know what all we have or haven't done to resolve this in later releases - for that, best to look at the history of the relevant packages, or ask doko or tdaitx
[20:09] <slangasek> slashd: basically the main change that fixes trigger cycles is to change them into noawait triggers; those keywords should be enough to let you find details e.g. how to implement in a package, minimum version of dpkg required in order to support them
[20:10] <slashd> slangasek, ack will look at this, thanks much it definitely unblock my troubleshoot
[20:12] <slangasek> slashd: I would also suggest investigating why ca-certificates-java is being removed on upgrade, considering it was manually installed
[20:12] <slashd> slangasek, ack
[20:12] <slashd> slashd, much appreciated thank you
[20:13] <slashd> slangasek, ^
[20:13] <slangasek> n/p
[20:15] <slashd> slangasek, yeah I see that 1.16 should suffice to have the implementation (considering nothing after is needed) I'll look at this too thanks  "cf6b98d dpkg: implement "interest-noawait" and "activate-noawait" trigger commands"
[20:22] <slangasek> slashd: ok, I couldn't resist digging a little more.  the root cause of the removal is ca-certificates-java in xenial Depends: openjdk-7-jre-headless (>= 7~u3-2.1.1~pre1-1) | java7-runtime-headless; java7-runtime-headless is provided by openjdk-8-jre-headless, but this will not cause apt to install openjdk-8-jre-headless on upgrade when openjdk-7-jre-headless is already installed;
[20:22] <slangasek> openjdk-7-jre-headless is only available in trusty, and has a dependency chain on an obsolete version of tzdata, so apt forces removal of tzdata-java -> openjdk-7-jre-headless -> ca-certificates-java
[20:22] <slangasek> slashd: sruing ca-certificates-java in xenial to explicitly prefer openjdk-8-jre-headless as the first alternative may be sufficient hint to the package manager for this upgrade to work correctly
[20:23] <slangasek> the circular trigger dep will still be there, but side-stepped
[20:23] <slashd> slangasek, looking
[20:27] <slashd> slashd, I see what you mean
[20:27] <slashd> x/ca-certificates-java-20160321/debian/rules:				-Vjre:Depends="openjdk-7-jre-headless (>= 7~u3-2.1.1~pre1-1)"
[20:27] <slashd> x/ca-certificates-java-20160321/debian/rules:				-Vjre:Depends="openjdk-7-jre-headless"
[20:29] <slashd> slashd, I check and test that, thanks a lot
[20:29] <slashd> slangasek, I check and test that, thanks a lot
[20:42] <RAOF> doko: Ooof. I forgot that we had rdepends 🙄. Thanks for the ping!
[20:54] <ahasenack> hm, I'm looking at a PR in github that splits a big shell script into submodules (https://github.com/CanonicalLtd/ubuntu-advantage-script/pull/92#discussion_r157047936 FTR)
[20:54] <ahasenack> and I made a comment about this change:
[20:54] <ahasenack> +modules/* usr/share/ubuntu-advantage/modules
[20:54] <ahasenack> the package name (deb) is ubuntu-advantage-tools
[20:54] <ahasenack> I asked if that directory should be named ubuntu-advantage-tools instead of just ubuntu-advantage as in the PR
[20:54] <ahasenack> is there a policy about this?
[21:12] <rbasak> ahasenack: that's an archive admin question really. I'd say that you should stick to /usr/share/<binary package name> to avoid conflicts.
[21:13] <rbasak> Though if it's /usr/share/<ubuntu something> then I suppose there's very low likelyhood of a conflict with any other project we're likely to package
[21:14] <ahasenack> rbasak: did you see his reasoning in the reply?
[21:34] <JEBjames> is there an ETA on fixing Ubuntu 18.04 server/Lubuntu-alternate (re: busybox/tar glitch since November 30th breaks install)
[21:35] <JEBjames> I have a work around but it's pretty cludgy and breaks my auto-install testing.
[21:37] <sarnold> JEBjames: that sounds like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/busybox/+bug/1737662
[21:38] <rbasak> ahasenack: I answered there to save splitting the conversation
[21:38] <JEBjames> sarnold: That sounds great!
[21:58] <JEBjames> I'll retest again tomorrow.  Thank you.
[22:27] <RAOF> doko: Hm. *What* Mir transition? As far as I can tell we no longer have any rdepends?
[22:29] <RAOF> And it has happily migrated out of proposed...