[03:24] <axisys> why do I get stop/waiting for a process I just started using start
[03:24] <axisys> here it shows
[03:25] <ion> See syslog.
[03:25] <axisys>  http://dpaste.com/hold/713891/
[03:26] <axisys> ion: that was to me?
[03:27] <ion> yeah
[03:27] <axisys> ion: /var/log/syslog shows nothing
[03:27] <axisys> related to autossh
[03:27] <ion> Strange
[03:28] <axisys> let me stop and start again on one window while monitoring syslog on another window
[03:32] <axisys> ion: i was wrong
[03:32] <axisys> ion: i get all these when I start autossh
[03:33] <axisys> ion: http://dpaste.com/713902/
[03:33] <axisys> i guess i should not use autossh.. but just ssh
[03:34] <axisys> autossh has i think a feature to respawn when ssh dies
[03:34] <ion> Perhaps the problem is with the process 19509 using the port already.
[03:35] <axisys> ion: it is not used already.. i checked.. before starting.. i think it is how it starts..
[03:35] <axisys> /usr/bin/ssh -L 2000:<IP_ADDRESS>:2000 -R 2000:<IP_ADDRESS>:2001 -N -L 9025:smtp.example.com:25 <IP_ADDRESS>
[03:35] <axisys> i need to find a better way to start..
[03:36] <axisys> autossh converts to that command
[03:36] <ion> There’s no longer a pid 19509 on the system?
[03:36] <axisys> ion: no
[03:37] <ion> If you run the “su user -c …” command from the shell, does it start correctly and stay in the foreground?
[03:39] <axisys> kind of..
[03:39] <axisys> it does start.. but it also gives these messages
[03:39] <axisys> keyctl_search: Required key not available
[03:39] <axisys> Perhaps try the interactive 'ecryptfs-mount-private'
[03:39] <axisys> keyctl_search: Required key not available
[03:39] <axisys> Perhaps try the interactive 'ecryptfs-mount-private'
[03:40] <axisys> i dont really need to start as root.. since I am picking a higher port
[03:40] <axisys> can upstart process start as user? i guess not..
[03:41] <axisys> if I start like this "autossh -f -M .. " as the user.. no issue
[03:42] <axisys> as a matter of fact I dont really need to start it as user..
[03:42] <ion> I looked up the man page of autossh, -f apparently should make it daemonize. Are you *sure* it stays in the foreground?
[03:42] <axisys> so "su user -c .." is not needed to activate the port
[03:43] <axisys> ion: it goes in the background..
[03:43] <ion> Ok, that needs to be fixed.
[03:43] <axisys> keyctl_search: Required key not available <-- this ?
[03:44] <ion> No, the -f
[03:44] <axisys> ok
[03:44] <axisys> anything you want me to try?
[03:44] <ion> dropping it
[03:45] <ion> I’ve had better success with “sudo” than “su”, too: exec sudo -H -u user -- autossh …
[03:45] <axisys> for that I will need NOPASSWD
[03:46] <ion> sudo doesn’t ask for a password from root.
[03:46] <axisys> ion: how do you those cool double quotes ?
[03:46] <axisys> ion: doh! right
[03:46] <ion> US International (AltGr dead keys) layout; altgr-shift-[ and ]
[03:47] <axisys> i know whats alt.. i guess i dont have altgr in my keyboard.. i am in VA
[03:47] <axisys> anyways.. back to the issue.. let me try with sudo
[03:49] <axisys> ok using sudo -H -u user -- autossh ... , same issue.. let me remove the -f
[03:51] <axisys> I lied.. sudo -H -u user -- autossh not going to work for me if run as root
[03:51] <axisys> Defaults        !root_sudo in sudoers
[03:52] <ion> Remove that line; fixed. :-P
[03:53] <axisys> ion: thanks for your help
[03:53] <axisys> $ status autossh
[03:53] <axisys> autossh start/running, process 11341
[03:53] <axisys> and syslog looks good too
[03:53] <axisys> no more -f
[03:53] <axisys> now that it is supervised.. if i kill autossh .. it should restart?
[03:54] <ion> yeah
[03:54] <axisys> cool! worked.. awesome!
[03:54] <axisys> ion: thanks a lot
[03:54] <ion> np
[04:03] <axisys> i have another nfs issue i like to resolve with upstart..
[04:03] <axisys> mount /foo /bar && run_cmd does not always work
[04:04] <axisys> if it is not mounted it is fine..
[04:05] <axisys> but if it is already mounted.. mount still gives non zero exit code.. so run_cmd does not get called
[04:05] <axisys> s/nfs/mount/
[04:05] <axisys> it is a mount issue..
[04:06] <axisys> start on mounted MOUNTPOINT=/bar
[04:06] <axisys> run_cmd
[04:06] <axisys> ^ this should work ?
[04:06] <axisys> mounted seems like a better condition that looking at the exit code of mount
[04:07] <axisys> is there some cookbook related to mount that I can look into for example?
[04:08] <axisys> http://dpaste.com/hold/713910/ <-- this is what we are using.. but I am not confident about line 51
[04:09] <axisys> plus looks ugly compare to "start on mounted MOUNTPOINT=/bar"
[04:29] <axisys> wow.. tons of mount related upstart scripts under init/ doh!
[07:03] <SpamapS> axisys: start on mounted MOUNTPOINT=/bar works fine if you want your job to only start right after that mountpoint is available.. it can be tough to make that useful in generic situations though


[02:15] <Krasslig> evening
[03:07] <PythonPup> Has anyone here been participating in the Ubuntu Community week?
[03:07] <PythonPup> Sorry, I put that in the wrong channel.
[04:43] <coolteen> Hey everyone, what's this thing about?
[11:40] <chandrageetha> how can i type malayalam in office writer?
[11:40] <coalwater> chandrageetha, is that a language?
[11:41] <coalwater> maybe u could install it
[11:42] <chandrageetha> i have ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwal, and malayalam is the language in Kerala state in India
[11:42] <chandrageetha> it supports east asian languages, no?
[11:43] <coalwater> 1 sec im checking
[11:44] <chandrageetha> coalwater, it supports east Asian languages, no? Malayalam is the language in Kerala, one of Indian states
[11:45] <coalwater> do u want to type that language or do u want to have menus and stuff with that language
[11:45] <chandrageetha> s, i want to type in that language in office writer
[11:46] <chandrageetha> could i have private chat with you?
[11:46] <coalwater> i think u should check the keyboard settings
[12:50] <cvillaco_> Hey, where you members from?
[15:56]  * popey waves
[15:56] <popey> anyone around?
[15:59] <jp_Hranice> CZ here !
[16:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Podcast Your Way to a Bigger Community!: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session09.pdf
[16:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[16:00] <popey> Hullo!
[16:01] <popey> (PS. There are no slides)
[16:01] <popey> I'm Alan Pope and I'm here to talk a bit about podcasting in my talk which is titled:-
[16:01] <popey> 16:23:45 < popey> that would do it
[16:01] <popey> bah!
[16:01] <popey> "Podcast Your Way to a Bigger Community!"
[16:01] <popey> "You have great community-building ideas. You want the world to hear them. Join your host to learn how the UK LoCo team created an Ubuntu podcast to help spread the word everywhere, and how they continue to do so."
[16:02] <popey> I'm talking from my experience in making Ubuntu UK Podcast with my friends. I'm not a professional podcaster, none of us have had any training for this. This is just what we've learned.
[16:02] <popey> Your experience may differ. :D
[16:02] <popey> Lets start with the basics..
[16:02] <popey> **** What is a podcast ****
[16:02] <popey> It's a downloadable and/or streamable radio/TV type programme on the internet.
[16:02] <popey> They can be audio or video files, of any duration and quality.
[16:02] <popey> They can be HD video or low-bit-rate audio.
[16:02] <popey> There could be one regular person presenting, a rotation of presenters or a zoo full of people..
[16:03] <popey> The content can be speaking only, music, a blend of the two or anything else you can think of.
[16:03] <popey> There's already a whole bunch of Linux and Ubuntu specific podcasts listed at:-
[16:03] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Podcasts
[16:03] <popey> and an even bigger list at:-
[16:03] <popey> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/
[16:03] <popey> People who run Ubuntu already have a platform on which they can download podcasts.
[16:04] <popey> Built in music applications for downloading and listening to podcasts include:-
[16:04] <popey> Built in music applications for downloading and listening to podcasts include:-
[16:04] <popey> bah!
[16:04] <popey>  Rhythmbox
[16:04] <popey>  Banshee
[16:04] <popey>  Amarok.
[16:04] <popey> Plus there are additional apps in the repository tailored specifically for this:-
[16:04] <popey>  hpodder
[16:04] <popey>  gpodder.
[16:05] <popey> All great apps. Plus there's other ones like bashbodder, and for the Windows/OSX users there's obviously iTunes (and others).
[16:05] <popey> ( some people hate iTunes, but it brings in the listeners, more on that later)
[16:05] <popey> Moving on...
[16:05] <popey> **** Why do it ****
[16:05] <popey> Because it's fun!
[16:05] <popey> It's a great way to pass on the good news about Ubuntu to people in your community, your LoCo team.
[16:06] <popey> It's also a fantastic way for people in the community to feed back.
[16:06] <popey> People who wouldn't normally contribute to something in Ubuntu can contribute to the podcast very easily.
[16:06] <popey> How hard is it to talk into a microphone for a while and record it? *
[16:06] <popey> * Not hard at all.
[16:06] <popey> **** Who should do it ****
[16:06] <popey> Anyone & Everyone :)
[16:06] <popey> or
[16:06] <popey> Anyone who thinks they have something useful to say, and believes there might be an audience willing to listen.
[16:07] <popey> There's a common thought that there isn't "room" for more Ubuntu / Linux podcasts.
[16:07] <popey> This is false.
[16:07] <popey> At the link above you can see a lot of Linux / Ubuntu podcasts. Most are English language.
[16:07] <popey> There's clearly room for plenty of non-EN ones, especially in LoCo teams where English isn't the first Language.
[16:08] <popey> Of course that doesn't mean there's no room for English language ones.
[16:08] <popey> :D
[16:08] <popey> There's specific subject areas that could be covered (that currently aren't well serviced).
[16:08] <popey> This includes Gaming on Linux, Support for end users, Ubuntu in the business space, Non-Governmental Organisation targetted podcasts.
[16:08] <popey> The list is endless. There is plenty of room for quality podcasts about Ubuntu.
[16:09] <popey> Think about how many Radio stations there are near you, and how many there are in your country.
[16:09] <popey> Note how many radio stations there are on the planet, and how many languages there are.
[16:09] <popey> Each has a demographic, a target market, and that market is huge.
[16:09] <popey> So room for everyone!
[16:10] <popey> **** How to do it ****
[16:10] <popey> There's plenty of ways to podcast. Here's some ideas to get started, with some ideas on technically how to record and the positive (+++) and negative (---) aspects
[16:10] <popey> Method A - "Quick and dirty"
[16:11] <popey> Just record something on your own, put it out there on some free/cheap hosting and see who comes along to listen and help out.
[16:11] <popey> Sit down with a laptop, sound recorder and press record.
[16:11] <popey> +++ - Quick and easy to record
[16:11] <popey> --- - Usually not great audio quality
[16:11] <popey> --- - No good for remote users
[16:11] <popey> (where remote users might participate in the show)
[16:12] <popey>
[16:12] <popey> Method B - "A little bit of planning"
[16:12] <popey> Put a call out to some friends and agree on a recording time, record it and put it out there.
[16:12] <popey> There's a few ways to actually do this.. here's some options...
[16:13] <popey> Use a dedicated audio recording device (such as Zoom H1 http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=2053)
[16:13] <popey> +++ - Quick and easy to record
[16:13] <popey> +++ - Portable device so can easily take to other locations than your basement :D
[16:13] <popey> +++ - Great for interviews / discussion
[16:13] <popey> --- - Not great for remote participation
[16:13] <popey> --- - Not great when multiple people are talking at once
[16:14] <popey> (you have to wave the mic around to point at who is talking)
[16:14] <popey>
[16:14] <popey> Another option...
[16:14] <popey> Use Skype or other multi-party VOIP client with only one participant recording
[16:14] <popey> +++ - Generally "Just works"
[16:15] <popey> +++ - Great for multiple remote participants
[16:15] <popey> --- - Lose the visual cues of seeing remote participants body language
[16:15] <popey> --- - Skype is Non-Free (if that matters to you)
[16:15] <popey> --- - Can be variable audio quality if remote participants have rubbish hardware or dodgy connections
[16:16] <popey>
[16:16] <popey> and another option...
[16:16] <popey> Use Skype or other multi-party VOIP client with every participant recording (parec or skyperec for example)
[16:16] <popey> (similar to above, but..
[16:17] <popey> +++ - Audio quality is great because each person has a recording from their local microphone
[16:17] <popey> --- - Significant overhead of getting the audio files to one person, and mixing the audio files together
[16:17] <popey>
[16:17] <popey> Linux Outlaws use the above method, and it works well for them.
[16:17] <popey> Method C - "Planned for every eventuality!"
[16:17] <popey> The following is what we do on Ubuntu UK Podcast.
[16:18] <popey> We decided to do "seasons" - 20 or so episodes a year, then take a break, and start again the following year.
[16:18] <popey> We all go out for a social evening a month or so before the season starts to chat about what format we'll do this year.
[16:18] <popey> (usually Curry)
[16:18] <popey> We also agree on whether we're actually going to do it again or not. So far we're half way through our 4th year.
[16:18] <popey> We agree a schedule, and put into a Google calendar the recording dates and release dates.
[16:19] <popey> This year we decided to record on a Tuesday whilst streaming live, and release on a Wednesday.
[16:19] <popey> (sometimes (like this week) we change the recording day to accomodate availability of people, but that's rare)
[16:19] <popey> During the week before the episode recording we put a shared Google document together to plan the episode.
[16:19] <popey> We organise interviews, reviews, news etc in the week before the recording.
[16:20] <popey> On the day of recording we finish off the show prep and arrive at Studio A (Tonys house) or Studio B (my house) to record.
[16:20] <popey> We each bring our own microphone, cable and stand, and laptop.
[16:20] <popey> Tony sets up all the audio equipment and does an audio test.
[16:20] <popey> Laura (or I) make some tea, and we eat some cake.
[16:20] <popey> (this is not a lie)
[16:21] <popey> We stream using icecast via our server kindly donated to use by Bitfolk (http://bitfolk.com/)
[16:21] <popey> Once the show is over Tony will tidy up the audio (briefly) and upload it to the server.
[16:21] <popey> We collaboratively work on the show notes on our wordpress+podpress blog, and then sync the podcast out to the mirror network.
[16:22] <popey> (note: The mirrors are servers run by community members who donated their space to us - we don't pay for any hosting at all)
[16:22] <popey> (Daviey setup the mirror system of scripts, which works brilliantly.
[16:22] <popey> Once the pages are done on the site we release the podcast.
[16:22] <popey> We start promoting the show via blogs, facebook, identica, twitter, Google+ and spamming IRC channels :D
[16:23] <popey> We rest for a week and then do it all over again :D
[16:23] <popey> That's our "Method"..
[16:23] <popey> 17:14:01 < Newbster> Question for popey : how many podcasts did you do until you had enough practice and routine, so that editing, uploading etc.  did not take you days anymore
[16:23] <popey> Great question!
[16:24] <popey> We actually changed the way we do it because the editing became a pain
[16:24] <popey> We used to record a bit, have a break, record a bit, have some cake, record a bit, have some tea
[16:25] <popey> we'd end up with 8 chunks of audio that needed editing and mixing
[16:25] <popey> in Season 3 we decided to try doing it "as live" - we didnt stream - but we recorded the whole episode in one go
[16:25] <popey> if there were mistakes we generally left them in
[16:25] <popey> I think by then we were getting better at it
[16:25] <popey> now in Season 4 we do it live and record the whole thing in exactly one hour
[16:26] <popey> (we have a timer on the telly reminding us when to stop)
[16:26] <popey> But we're still far from perfect, just a bunch of people chatting in a room really :D
[16:26] <ClassBot> nigelb asked: How do you manage the live podcasts that UUPC has been doing lately?
[16:26] <popey> Good question! :D
[16:27] <popey> We have Icecast running on our server - you can probably see it idle at http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org:8000/
[16:27] <popey> when we start streaming tonight has a laptop with icecast client on it which connects to the server and streams audio to it
[16:27] <popey> people click a link on the website or paste the url into their audio player (like vlc) and they hear everything from the studio
[16:28] <popey> simples ;D
[16:28] <popey> We have quite a bit of audio kit, but that's built up over the years
[16:28] <popey> We didnt all go out and buy hundreds of pounds worth of equipment
[16:29] <popey> but we did each buy our own microphone (we generally use Shure SM58), mic cables and stands
[16:29] <popey> I have two mics so if we have a guest in the studio we set that up for them
[16:29] <popey> Clearly I could go all the way up to:-
[16:29] <popey> Method Z - "Build a recording studio..." :D
[16:30] <popey> and we have considered building a little dedicated studio (in my garage) but we're not there (yet)
[16:30] <popey> So that's some of the ways people can podcast..
[16:30] <popey> All of which are valid and potentially successful ways to get a podcast out there however I'll go over some lessons we've learned.
[16:30] <popey> * Do some research
[16:30] <popey> Put a call out to your LoCo for help.
[16:30] <popey> Perhaps community members can help out with equipment, a venue for recording, infrastructure or bandwidth.
[16:31] <popey> With Ubuntu UK Podcast I contacted a few good friends and asked if they wanted to get involved.
[16:31] <popey> Find a web developer and/or designer who can help with a web presence
[16:31] <popey> See if anyone has past experience of podcasting or audio engineering. Perhaps they have equipment or advice to offer.
[16:31] <popey>
[16:31] <popey> * Set your expectations accordingly
[16:31] <popey> Most podcasts don't get millions of downloads, and especially don't get loads of downloads on the first episode
[16:31] <popey> Don't let this put you off from making more episodes!
[16:32] <popey>
[16:32] <popey> * Audio quality _does_ matter
[16:32] <popey> Whilst you could just pick up a $2 microphone from Wallmart and record yourself whilst sat on a train station platform during rush hour, the audio quality would probably be painful to listen to.
[16:32] <popey> Most listeners do care about audio quality. If they can't clearly hear what you're saying they may stop listening altogether.
[16:33] <popey> That doesn't mean you have to spend thousands on a professional recording studio setup, but some sensible precautions can help:-
[16:33] <popey> 1. Do test recording and listen back on heaphones to see how the recording came out.
[16:33] <popey> 2. Make adjustments to improve things. Don't just think "that'll do", it probably won't.
[16:33] <popey> 3. Stay close and fixed distance to your microphone to avoid volume levels fluctuating wildly
[16:33] <popey> 4. Consider post-processing the audio to clean up any sound mess before releasing the show
[16:34] <popey> 5. Consider editing the audio before publishing to remove bloopers, long pauses or mistakes.
[16:34] <popey>
[16:34] <popey> (although you will get better with practice)
[16:34] <popey>
[16:34] <popey> * Make it available in various formats
[16:34] <popey> It's my opinion that (Linux Specific) podcasts should be made available in both free formats (such as Ogg Vorbis) and also in a format that plays on non-Linux platforms.
[16:35] <popey> Some will argue that we should advocate and only make shows available in free formats. I disagree.
[16:35] <popey> Around 50% of the listeners of Ubuntu UK Podcast use iTunes.
[16:35] <popey> So that's _half_ our audience _don't_ use Ogg
[16:35] <popey>
[16:36] <popey> Tony Whitmore (from our podcast) made a script called 'Podcoder' which makes the creation of MP3 and OGG audio files from a master easy.
[16:36] <popey> http://darcs.tonywhitmore.co.uk/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=podcoder;a=summary
[16:36] <popey>
[16:36] <popey> * Make it easy for listeners to feedback
[16:37] <popey> An easy to remember email address which is given out _in_ the show itself is vital.
[16:37] <popey> People will want to correct you when you're wrong (and you will be wrong sometimes) and tell you what they think. Make it easy for them to do that.
[16:37] <popey> Perhaps register a twitter / identica ID specifically for your podcast.
[16:37] <popey> Maybe create a Facebook page or dedicated forum.
[16:38] <popey> Maybe have a Skype ID or other VOIP setup so people can easily leave audio feedback.
[16:38] <popey>
[16:38] <popey> (Whilst you might not want to use non-free systems like Facebook, Twitter and Skype, the fact is your listeners probably do.)
[16:38] <popey> Letting them have a way for them to feedback to you the way _they_ want is essential.
[16:38] <popey> Forcing people to use an invite-only social network *cough* Diaspora *cough* to contact you is probably not going to get you much feedback.
[16:39] <popey>
[16:39] <popey> * Listeners _like_ a regular schedule
[16:40] <popey> Perhaps surprisingly, people actually set aside time to listen to podcasts. Often on their commute or in the evening after work.
[16:40] <popey> Many users will get their downloads via RSS feeds, so as soon as you upload it, they can get it.
[16:40] <popey> You might think "I can put out episodes when I like, people will still listen because they'll just get it when their RSS reader polls"
[16:40] <popey> What people actually do is go looking for episodes on a specific day and at a pre-determined time. They get used to episodes coming out, and want to get it right away.
[16:41] <popey> If you leave it too long the users forget you exist and will stop polling, and may even remove your feed from their clients
[16:41] <popey>
[16:41] <popey> * Promote it
[16:41] <popey> If you're an Ubuntu Member then you can blog about your show, and even syndicate the episodes on Planet Ubuntu - http://planet.ubuntu.com/
[16:41] <popey> (if you're not a member, then get someone else who is to do it for you) :D
[16:42] <popey> Ask other podcasters to promote your show, maybe you can create a trailer for them to play. That gives them instant content to play.
[16:42] <popey> Put your show on iTunes (requires an iTunes account, get someone else to do submit it if you don't want to)
[16:42] <popey>
[16:42] <popey> Finally...
[16:42] <popey> * Keep doing it!
[16:42] <popey> As I mentioned before, keep doing a show regularly and people will tune in!
[16:42] <popey>
[16:43] <popey> That's all I have to say really. Questions/comments welcome :D
[16:46] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: How did you become so awesome?
[16:46] <popey> I follow jono around.
[16:46] <popey> some of it rubs off.
[16:49] <popey> Right, I'm done then, thanks!
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <JoeVancouver> Hello everyone! Thanks, popey for a great presentation. As ClassBot has mentioned, I will begin my session in about 10 minutes.
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Haters Gonna Hate: Grow Your Community With Less Negativity: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session10.pdf
[17:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[17:00] <JoeVancouver> Hello everyone!
[17:00] <JoeVancouver> Thanks again to popey for a great session.
[17:01] <JoeVancouver> My name is Joe Liau. I'm from the Ubuntu Vancouver Local Community.
[17:01] <JoeVancouver> oday I will touch the surface of an issue that I feel needs more awareness.
[17:01] <JoeVancouver> Please hold your questions until the end.
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> Below are more in-depth references to topics that I will mention:
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> The Art of Community by Jono Bacon (http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/)
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> Producing Open Source Software by Karl Fogel (http://producingoss.com/)
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> Community Anti-Patterns by Dave Neary (http://conference2010.meego.com/session/community-anti-patterns)
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> Ubuntu for Human Beings by Disposable Joe (http://bit.ly/otbnlt)
[17:02] <JoeVancouver> Ok. Let's begin!
[17:03] <JoeVancouver> "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." --Yoda
[17:03] <JoeVancouver> Hate is an obvious hindrance in any community.
[17:03] <JoeVancouver> But, as in the quote above, there are many things that lead to hate that we need to be aware of.
[17:04] <JoeVancouver> We'll call this "negativity".
[17:04] <JoeVancouver> It is easy for communities to overlook negativity in an attempt to be open, friendly, and satisfy the hunger for resources.
[17:04] <JoeVancouver> This is especially true for Ubuntu, where friendliness is part of the project's DNA. (Code of Conduct).
[17:05] <JoeVancouver> Community membership policies need to be structured in a way that they are the best for the community as a whole instead of satisfying people individually.
[17:05] <JoeVancouver> We need to be aware that negativity exists, know how to identify it, and defuse it at an early stage.
[17:06] <JoeVancouver>  If we don't , we run the risk of being hijacked.
[17:06] <JoeVancouver> We will now take a look at a few patterns of negativity and possible solutions.
[17:06] <JoeVancouver> But, while we go over these things, I would like you to keep a two thoughts in mind. These are simple questions that you can ask yourself with every community interaction:
[17:07] <JoeVancouver> 1. If I am not building up the community, then am I tearing it down? (Community-demolition-technician or CDT, because we all love and need acronyms)
[17:07] <JoeVancouver> 2. Even if I am not hating on anyone, could I still be a source of hate? (Hate emitter or hate-o-tron)
[17:07] <JoeVancouver> --Fear Patterns--
[17:08] <JoeVancouver> "Cookie Lickers" --  This type of CDT follows the “This is mine... for later” philosophy
[17:08] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: I really want to help so I will volunteer, but in reality I don't have time to work on the project. Little or no progress in assigned task.
[17:08] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Fear of failure or letting go
[17:09] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Roadblocks in the project(s)
[17:09] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Set deadlines. If not met let people know that it's better to give up, than to hold us up. Please help out again when you have time.
[17:09] <JoeVancouver> (I have been guilty of this ... :( )
[17:10] <JoeVancouver> "Help Vampires" -- Hold my hand, and don't let go!
[17:10] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: I need you to install Ubuntu for me (on my wristwatch). Oh, and Thunderbird. How do I add my e-mail account? What's smtp mean? How do I change my background? Where's the wifi switch on my laptop? Oh, one more thing...
[17:10] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Fear of trying new things or not knowing everything
[17:11] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Sucks time from your local community, and from your support resources, crowds your forum or mailing list etc.
[17:11] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Teach people how to fish. Have good documentation and community orientation. Try to encourage them to get a few basics down before dropping in. Pair them with other vampires  ;)
[17:12] <JoeVancouver> In the Vancouver LoCo we created "Support Saturdays" to focus tech support issues to one event.
[17:12] <JoeVancouver> "OADIs" -- Occasional Anonymous DropIns
[17:12] <JoeVancouver> (This is a term invented by UVLC, home of my favourite local community :P)
[17:13] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: You probably don't know me. I saw your event and wanted to check it out. No, I didn't RSVP. I lurked but never introduced myself. I am so anonymous.
[17:13] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Fear of commitment; fear of revealing something, fear of truly becoming part of a community.
[17:13] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: No accountability. Could cause fear in others. Can disrupt events that have specific goals. Can impact event expenses. Can cause organizers to pull out hair and burn out.
[17:14] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Encourage and enforce RSVPs for events. When an OADI arrives, ask them if they RSVP'd. Introduce them to the group. Have them introduce themselves.
[17:14] <JoeVancouver> We use meetup.com for RVSPs and attendance records
[17:14] <JoeVancouver> "The Water Cooler" -- A place to talk about things. No one else needs to know.
[17:15] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: Projects that seem to appear or progress with very limited input.
[17:15] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Fear of community or inefficiency
[17:15] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: May cause shock or resentment in others who are part of the project.
[17:16] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): The "glass house". Keep what you're doing open and visible, but you don't have to listen to everybody.
[17:16] <JoeVancouver> There are many fears that can cause negative behaviour.
[17:16] <JoeVancouver> Those are but a few.
[17:16] <JoeVancouver> Keeping the community informed and educated is a good start to eliminate some of these fears.
[17:17] <JoeVancouver> Why would we want to eliminate them?
[17:17] <JoeVancouver> We want our community to thrive and grow beyond Mark Shuttleworth's wildest dreams. We want to do the right thing for the world. We want to fix bug #1.
[17:17] <JoeVancouver> This leads us to our next section:
[17:18] <JoeVancouver> --Anger Patterns-- (Often results of fear patterns)
[17:18] <JoeVancouver> "The Black Hole" -- I'm currently travelling through time to finish a project. You won't see me again until last month.
[17:18] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: Projects that seem to disappear for long periods of time.
[17:19] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Angry at all the noise and bother
[17:19] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Can lead to duplication of work (...from a month ago), project abandonment
[17:19] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Community outreach.  I don't care about your questions or helping you.
[17:20] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Angry at new members; elitist attitude
[17:20] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Discourages growth and diversity of membership
[17:20] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Code of conduct; delegation of help (assign newer people to simpler questions)
[17:21] <JoeVancouver> "Headless Chicken" -- We're going somewhere...somewhere
[17:21] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: Heavy disagreements, bike shed discussions
[17:21] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Angry at other opinions and not being able to get own way
[17:22] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Lack of progress and direction
[17:22] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Leadership; decisive authority. Encourage "doing" instead of "talking."
[17:23] <JoeVancouver> In vancouver, we have had a few cases with this issue. It was not for lack of leadership, but others who refused to allow leadership.
[17:23] <JoeVancouver> Some people just want to talk, and they like talking and discussing or arguing.
[17:24] <JoeVancouver> We need leadership, and need to respect it.
[17:24] <JoeVancouver> "Broken Record" -- Hi, It's me again...
[17:24] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: I have reprimanded you countless times. You now filter out my e-mails.
[17:24] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Anger toward the "broken record"
[17:25] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Reluctance to contribute; animosity towards those who try to enforce
[17:25] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Spread enforcement work around. Quote policies; don't use opinions.
[17:25] <JoeVancouver> --Hate Patterns--
[17:25] <JoeVancouver> If we become angry enough, then we can start hating. But, there are also haters already out there, and haters gonna hate.
[17:26] <JoeVancouver> "Broken Window" -- It's already broken...
[17:26] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: Flame wars, wiki vandalism,  rude language
[17:26] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Gateway for hate. If it already exists, it makes it easier for others to follow
[17:26] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Broken windows = broken community
[17:27] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Document of best practices, policies, guidelines etc. Make it clear.
[17:27] <JoeVancouver> "Poisonous People" -- We're looking for a fight
[17:27] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: I'm a true hater.  Fight with evidence rather than opinion.
[17:28] <JoeVancouver> Yes, filter.
[17:28] <JoeVancouver> There is a misconception in the Ubuntu world that we should let in all comers.
[17:28] <JoeVancouver> That might not be wise.
[17:29] <JoeVancouver> Instead, let's let in the community builders first.
[17:29] <JoeVancouver> Then we can let in more when we are more established.
[17:29] <JoeVancouver> "Other Bashers" -- Anything you can do, I can do better
[17:29] <JoeVancouver> -Identification: Hating on other projects
[17:30] <JoeVancouver> -Downfall: Elitism; hate for "others" ; tribalism
[17:30] <JoeVancouver> -Negative Impact: Hurts open source philosophy and Ubuntu ethos
[17:30] <JoeVancouver> -Solution(s): Dispel opinions. Use facts to compare projects.
[17:30] <JoeVancouver> If you ever get the chance, ask sabdfl how he feels about "tribalism".
[17:31] <JoeVancouver> In general if you are confronted by a tribal behaviour, the best thing you can do is to highlight what the projects have in common. Get them to see that we are all working together to achieve a common goal.
[17:31] <JoeVancouver> --Other Solutions---
[17:31] <JoeVancouver> Negativity exists in your community.
[17:32] <JoeVancouver> We have to learn to be aware of it, identify it as early as possible, and learn how and when to deal with it.
[17:32] <JoeVancouver> A few other tips and resources are below.
[17:32] <JoeVancouver> Communication:
[17:33] <JoeVancouver> - Ubuntu LoCos often have a strong online component. We are who our words are on the internet
[17:33] <JoeVancouver> This is unfortunate, but doesn't have to be this way.
[17:33] <JoeVancouver> Build a truly local community.
[17:33] <JoeVancouver> Go out and find the 0.5% of your city/town that are using Ubuntu and meet them face-to-face.
[17:34] <JoeVancouver> If you think that cannot be done, then I encourage you to check out my local community for an in-your-face counter-example.
[17:34] <JoeVancouver> Talk to Randall.
[17:34] <JoeVancouver> Otherwise please learn some online etiquette (eg http://www.sighworld.com/intq101)
[17:35] <JoeVancouver> - Encourage offline gathering. Build your community face-to-face.
[17:35] <JoeVancouver> And learn proper offline etiquette (possibly defined by your loco's policies)
[17:36] <JoeVancouver> We host New Members Nights where we go over how our LoCo works, and members have developed a NURG (New Users Resource Guide)
[17:36] <JoeVancouver> On or offline: -Be careful of your choice of language (eg. Avoid terms like “nerds”, “geeks” “noobs”, etc).
[17:36] <JoeVancouver> Higher Powers:
[17:37] <JoeVancouver> - Ubuntu Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[17:37] <JoeVancouver> Everyone in your community should read this and abide by it.
[17:37] <JoeVancouver> - Ubuntu Community Council: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil
[17:37] <JoeVancouver> If things go really sideways then there is an arbiter. Please use them, but only when you think it's beyond your level to repair.
[17:38] <JoeVancouver> --Final Word--
[17:38] <JoeVancouver> Communities are emotional places; they are more human than technical.
[17:38] <JoeVancouver> It's important to be aware of the human aspects, both positive and negative.
[17:39] <JoeVancouver> Communities are about working for the whole rather than the individual, but we can start with ourselves. Let's ask ourselves again:
[17:39] <JoeVancouver> 1. If I am not building up the community, then am I tearing it down? (Am I a CDT?)
[17:39] <JoeVancouver> 2. Even if I am not hating on anyone, could I still be a source of hate? (Am I a Darth Hater?)
[17:40] <JoeVancouver> We should do self checkups once in a while as well as community "health" check ups. The point is not to create paranoia, but it is about awareness.
[17:40] <JoeVancouver> If we want our community to grow, then we can't turn
[17:40] <JoeVancouver> a blind eye to negative things; we have to deal with them properly.
[17:40] <JoeVancouver> Remember: "If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> References and resources again:
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> The Art of Community by Jono Bacon (http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/)
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Producing Open Source Software by Karl Fogel (http://producingoss.com/)
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Community Anti-Patterns by Dave Neary (http://conference2010.meego.com/session/community-anti-patterns)
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Ubuntu for Human Beings by Disposable Joe (http://bit.ly/otbnlt)
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Ubuntu Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Ubuntu Community Council: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil
[17:41] <JoeVancouver> Thank you for joining today. Please feel free to join in with questions or comments.
[17:42] <JoeVancouver> !q
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:50] <JoeVancouver> I guess that's all from me. Thanks again for joining!
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:00] <ClassBot> Slides for How to Train Ninjas (session in Spanish): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session11.pdf
[18:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[18:00] <leogg> hola!
[18:01] <leogg> (this session is going to be held in Spanish, so if you want to practice your español, please stay!) ;)
[18:01] <leogg> hay gente que habla español por acá?
[18:01] <leogg> peguen un silbido en -chat para saber si están por ahí ;)
[18:02] <leogg> recuerden que pueden hacer preguntas en #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[18:02] <leogg> solo ponganles el prefijo QUESTION:
[18:02] <leogg> yo no muerdo! :D - pregunten sin miedo, no existen preguntas demasiado obvias o tontas
[18:03] <leogg> para los que no me conocen
[18:03] <leogg> mi nombre es Leandro y soy de la comunidad Ubuntu en Nicaragua
[18:03] <leogg> http://www.ubuntu.org.ni
[18:04] <leogg> desde el año pasado estoy en el LoCo Council de Ubuntu
[18:04] <leogg> y una de nuestras tareas es apoyar a las comunidades locales en su desarrollo
[18:05] <leogg> por eso esta charla (y también porque me obligaron a darla) ;)
[18:05] <leogg> gracias a todo el equipo detrás del UCW por esta oportunidad de darla en español!
[18:06] <leogg> el día de hoy voy a hablarles un poco sobre como construir (y hacer crecer a una) comunidad
[18:06] <leogg> hay muchas comunidades increíbles en nuestros países
[18:07] <leogg> con gente realmente asombrosa que le echa muchas ganas y mucho entusiasmo
[18:08] <leogg> sin embargo, por diversos motivos, algunas comunidades no despegan... no logran desarrrollarse y crecer
[18:08] <leogg> hay mucha apatía
[18:08] <leogg> los miembros no se involucran en las actividades de la comunidad
[18:09] <leogg> no participan en los eventos y proyectos
[18:09] <leogg> en algunas comunidades hay grandes conflictos y malos entendidos que terminan destruyendo a la comunidad
[18:10] <leogg> y como resultado, alejan a toda persona con un genuino interés en colaborar
[18:10] <leogg> voy a ser sincero (y desengañarlos desde un inicio)
[18:11] <leogg> no hay receta mágica o fórmula misteriosa para una comunidad éxitosa
[18:11] <leogg> pero sí hay pasos concretos que podemos tomar para alcanzar nuestro máximo potencial
[18:12] <leogg> y eso es lo que voy a compartir con ustedes el día de hoy
[18:13] <leogg> (les recuerdo nuevamente que pueden hacer preguntas en #ubuntu-classroom-chat)
[18:13] <leogg> 1. establecer las reglas del juego desde un inicio
[18:14] <leogg> es importante contar con un ambiente positivo, en el que de gusto trabajar, y que nos lleve a alcanzar nuestras metas como colectivo
[18:15] <leogg> en la comunidad de Ubuntu nos regimos por un código de conducta (Code of Conduct o CoC, en inglés)
[18:15] <leogg> http://www.ubuntu.org.ve/codigodeconducta
[18:15] <leogg> que es básicamente un documento que nos recuerda que debemos actuar con respeto y consideración hacía los demás
[18:16] <leogg> son normas básicas de convivencia y civismo que están plasmadas en un documento oficial
[18:17] <leogg> el CoC puede ser un poco general, así que también se puede elaborar lineamientos más especificos para prevenir y combatir problemas puntuales...
[18:18] <leogg> ...como el abuso de los recursos de la comunidad:
[18:18] <leogg> http://linuxtour.org/Listiqueta
[18:18] <leogg> o el hostigamiento:
[18:18] <leogg> http://linuxtour.org/PoliticaSobreAcoso
[18:18] <leogg> (desgraciadamente algo más común de lo que se cree en nuestras comunidades)
[18:19] <leogg> lo importante es dejar bien claras las reglas del juego desde un inicio y asegurarse de que todos las conozcan y las respeten
[18:20] <leogg> 2. transparencia en el manejo de la comunidad
[18:20] <leogg> puede sonar como algo elemental, pero es un error bastante común
[18:21] <leogg> idealmente, toda decisión debe ser discutida y consensuada entre los miembros de la comunidad
[18:22] <leogg> digo 'idealmente' porque hay veces que toca tomar decisiones unilaterales
[18:22] <leogg> como regla general; traten de discutir abiertamente los problemas de la comunidad y llegar a soluciones basadas en el consenso
[18:22] <leogg> sean accesibles
[18:23] <leogg> mantengan siempre abiertos los canales de comunicación entre los líderes de la comunidad y la base
[18:24] <leogg> esto contribuye al manejo transparente de la comunidad y permite a los miembros sentirse parte importante del proceso
[18:24] <leogg> 3. promover el relevo
[18:25] <leogg> no se trata simplemente de un cambio de personas en la coordinación de la comunidad
[18:25] <leogg> es más bien un proceso formativo
[18:26] <leogg> en donde los miembros más experimentados 'entrenan' a los 'nuevos' para que exista un relevo a mediano y largo plazo
[18:27] <leogg> una buena forma de 'entrenar' a los 'nuevos ninjas' es asignándoles tareas y responsabilidades dentro de la comunidad
[18:28] <leogg> algo importante:
[18:28] <leogg> hay que evitar la tentación de querer hacer las cosas uno mismo cuando el trabajo no se hace correctamente/al ritmo deseado
[18:29] <leogg> como dije; es un proceso y toma tiempo... hay que tener paciencia
[18:30] <leogg> también hay que estar claro de que los errores forman parte de todo proceso de formación y hay que dejar que la gente aprenda de ellos
[18:31] <leogg> por último, creo que para construir las bases sólidas de una comunidad se debe:
[18:31] <leogg> 4. promover la diversidad
[18:31] <leogg> nuestra comunidad es muy especial
[18:32] <leogg> en apariencia somos una comunidad formada alrededor de las tecnologías de la información y la comunicación
[18:33] <leogg> somos una comunidad geek; de informáticos, por informáticos, y en la mayoría de los casos para informáticos
[18:33] <leogg> y erróneamente pensamos que una persona sin conocimientos o formación informática no tiene mucho que aportar a la comunidad
[18:34] <leogg> nada más alejado de la realidad!
[18:34] <leogg> una comunidad sana se nutre y se beneficia de personas con una gran diversidad de conocimientos y habilidades
[18:35] <leogg> aparte de desarrolladores, se necesitan traductores, escritores, artistas, abogados, diseñadores, etc.
[18:35] <leogg> facilitar el ingreso de estas personas a la comunidad es muy importante
[18:36] <leogg> (recuerden que pueden hacer preguntas en #ubuntu-classroom-chat, solo ponganles el prefijo QUESTION:)
[18:36] <leogg> (si nadie hace preguntas voy a comenzar a auto-interrogarme) :D
[18:37] <leogg> ok, voy a ir cerrando con un par de consejos finales
[18:38] <leogg> *el trabajo de un líder es motivar e inspirar*
[18:38] <leogg> coordinar y tomar decisiones es solo una parte del trabajo
[18:39] <leogg> la tarea más importante de un líder es aprender a motivar a los miembros de la comunidad para que se involucren en las diferentes tareas y proyectos
[18:40] <leogg> no basta con reconocer el esfuerzo de los miembros de la comunidad (aunque sí es muy importante!)
[18:40] <leogg> también hay que hacerles sentir que están haciendo algo útil y que les puede resultar beneficioso en el futuro (su futuro)
[18:40] <leogg> por ejemplo
[18:41] <leogg> para un estudiante universitario, sin experiencia laboral, el organizar un evento o dar una charla es una excelente forma de sumar experiencia en su hoja de vida
[18:42] <leogg> para un diseñador gráfico, los diseños que hace para la comunidad pueden servir como vitrina para conseguir algún trabajo relacionado
[18:42] <leogg> para un abogado que se involucra con la comunidad, aprender sobre licencias libres le puede llevar a especializarse en la materia y conseguir nuevos clientes
[18:42] <leogg> etc.
[18:43] <leogg> hay muchos otros aspectos que son importantes en la construcción de una comunidad, pero creo que ya los aburrí lo suficiente, así que termino con:
[18:44] <leogg> *diviértete!!!*
[18:44] <leogg> hacer un solo tipo de evento puede a la larga resultar muy cansado y aburrido
[18:45] <leogg> planifica actividades sociales con los miembros de tu comunidad
[18:46] <leogg> no importa si es salir a jugar fútbol, tomar una cerveza, ver una película, celebrar un cumpleaños... <INSERTAR_ACTIVIDAD_FAVORITA_AQUÍ> ...las actividades sociales no deben ser subestimadas
[18:46] <leogg> estas ayudan ENORMEMENTE a crear lazos y promover la cohesión del grupo
[18:47] <leogg> una comunidad feliz es la que se divierte y se siente bien con el trabajo que hace
[18:47] <leogg> ...
[18:47] <leogg> si no hay preguntas, terminamos aquí <-------------
[18:50] <leogg> muchas gracias!
[18:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:50] <leogg> enjoy the rest of the week!
[18:50] <leogg> thank you pleia2
[18:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:00] <ClassBot> Slides for Working With Other Groups In Your Community: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuCommunityWeek/oneiric/slides?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=session12.pdf
[19:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following the conclusion of the session.
[19:01] <pleia2> Hi everyone!
[19:01] <pleia2> Today I'm here to talk to you about "Working with Other Groups In Your Community"
[19:01] <pleia2> My name is Elizabeth Krumbach, I'm the senior systems administrator for a small Linux tech services provider based out of Philadelphia but these days I call San Francisco, California my home (hooray for telecommuting!)
[19:02] <pleia2> questions throughout the sesssion are welcome, you want to ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and begin your question like with QUESTION:
[19:02] <pleia2> for instance
[19:02] <pleia2> QUESTION: Do you like cats?
[19:03] <pleia2> except they should probably be on-topic for the talk :)
[19:03] <ClassBot> semitones asked: could you answer your own question regarding cats please?
[19:03] <pleia2> Haha, sure, I love cats, I have 2 of them :)
[19:03] <ClassBot> mhall119 asked: Do your cats run linux?
[19:04] <pleia2> of course! We don't run anything else here at home (well, my fiance might have a macbook...)
[19:04] <pleia2> alright, so let's get going on this topic of working with other groups!
[19:04] <pleia2> I first got involved with LoCo teams back in 2007 when I was living in Pennsylvania and am now one of the three leaders of the Ubuntu California team
[19:05] <pleia2> From this experience I'll talk a bit about some of the tips and challenges related to working with existing tech groups in your area, reaching out to hackerspaces and some success stories from teams who have done work with learning centers and schools
[19:05] <pleia2> As a bit of an introduction I figured I'd talk a little about how I got to where I am with LoCo teams
[19:05] <pleia2> Prior to my involvement with a LoCo team I had been running a LinuxChix.org chapter in Philadelphia (PhillyChix) since 2003
[19:05] <pleia2> This is us! http://phillychix.org/images/chix/meeting03.jpg
[19:06] <pleia2> And in 2005 I resurrected the Montgomery County Linux Users Group
[19:06] <pleia2> us! http://www.phillylinux.org/images/buxmontlug_111405.jpg
[19:06] <pleia2> So I'd been involved with local groups for a while, and when the Ubuntu team came along I added it to my list of cool groups to work with
[19:07] <pleia2> However, this isn't how everyone feels when they start up a LoCo, I can't count the number of times I've had people tell me that they can't start a LoCo because there is already a LUG or other tech group in their area
[19:07] <pleia2> So I want to make clear that it's not a competition, LoCos and other tech groups can benefit greatly by collaborating :)
[19:07] <pleia2> Here are just some ways LoCos I've worked with have helped LUGs I was a part of:
[19:07] <pleia2>  * You can providing presenters specializing in Ubuntu-related topics for meetings and events
[19:08] <pleia2>  * Your LoCo team may bring new members into the LUG: a lot of newcomers to Linux find Ubuntu LoCos before they even know what LUGs are
[19:08] <pleia2>  * You may be providing a supply of Ubuntu CDs to their attendees (whether they be burned or pressed ones that approved teams get)
[19:08] <pleia2>  * Often times you can offer their members a more diverse set of planned events to attend - many LUGs in my area *ask* me to cross post our Ubuntu events to their mailing lists!
[19:08] <pleia2> You can also plan coffee/food get-togethers of your LoCo right before a LUG meeting, with a plan to go all to the LUG meeting after
[19:09] <pleia2> I schedule the San Francisco Ubuntu Hour an hour prior to and across the street from the regular Debian Dinners and it helps attendance at both
[19:09] <pleia2> plus it's pretty fun to get Ubuntu and Debian folks together :) there is often a lot of overlap and it's fun to hear about how people are using both
[19:09] <pleia2> I've been really fortunate to work with great LUGs over the years and have never had a problem
[19:10] <pleia2> However, it can sometimes be a challenge to work with an existing LUG if you don't know them well and they view your group as taking away from their membership, so if this starts to happen to you I recommend:
[19:10] <pleia2>  * Respect them, they were there first so don't plan things that conflict with their events
[19:10] <pleia2>  * Show them ways you can help them, as outlined above
[19:11] <pleia2> Any questions about working with LUGs?
[19:12] <ClassBot> semitones asked: Is it easier or harder if a LUG is relatively far away
[19:12] <pleia2> good question, it really depends on the culture of your area
[19:12] <pleia2> in some areas people don't mind driving an hour+ to get to an event (I did this when I was living near Philadelphia)
[19:13] <pleia2> so you have to ake considerations for that when you're considering potental event conflicts or how closely you want to work with them
[19:13] <pleia2> here in San Francisco I find it's pretty rare for people to attend things that are even 30 minutes away :)
[19:14] <pleia2> Beyond LUGs you also have other tech groups. Last October members from the California Team gave a couple presentations at the The Silicon Valley LAMP Meetup Group on LAMP (Linux Apache Mysql PHP/Perl/Python) in Maverick
[19:14] <pleia2> Details from that event are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/LightingTheMaverickLAMP
[19:14] <pleia2> At that event not only where there presentations, but also some giveaways and a little session where people could try out the new Ubuntu release
[19:16] <pleia2> If you have a local hackerspace (hackerspaces.org to find one near you) I highly recommend reaching out to them for event space
[19:16] <pleia2> For the Lucid release party last year Ubuntu California had our event at a hackerspace in San Francisco: http://princessleia.com/images/journalpics/062010/lynx_release_installfest_03.jpg
[19:17] <pleia2> Now you may need to have a hackerspace member sponsor your event, rules vary between spaces. For this one we had a member sponsor who was also part of our LoCo
[19:17] <pleia2> A lot of areas also have computer recycling centers, many of which do some kind of reuse program typically aimed at getting computers to lower income groups or having work programs that allow people to do a certain number work and take home a computer at the end
[19:18] <pleia2> These computer recycling centers are really awesome for LoCo teams to work with if they're open to the idea of deploying Linux on (some of) their machines!
[19:18] <pleia2> Back in Pennsylvania we worked with Nonprofit Technology Resources (NTR) in Philadelphia on several projects, including:
[19:18] <pleia2>  * Putting together dual boot systems with Windows: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/CommunityOutreachTeam/NTRDualBootImage
[19:19] <pleia2> this was a bit of a compromise that the team lived with, we wanted just Linux but couldn't make it happen
[19:19] <pleia2> but in the process everyone learned a lot and NTR greatly benefited from the open source imaging tools we were using
[19:19] <pleia2>  * Training them to install lightweight Linux on systems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/CommunityOutreachTeam/NtrTraining
[19:19] <pleia2>  * Working through their piles of old laptops to help sort and install Linux on the ones Windows wouldn't run on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/CommunityOutreachTeam/NtrLaptopProject
[19:20] <pleia2> Now I wasn't involved with this project, but I did approach another recycling program in Ephrata (a couple hours from downtown Philadelphia) which, while wasn't open to installing Ubuntu as a default, did have requests from time to time for alternatives to Windows
[19:20] <pleia2> They had one part-time volunteer who had expertise in Linux, but with the challenges that older hardware brought he frequently needed tips from others - this is where the LoCo team came in! He could drop us an email or forum post at any time and we'd do our best to help
[19:21] <pleia2> So, hackerspaces, tech groups, lugs, tech recycling programs - are we preaching to the choir? How about going beyond the normal techie crowd?
[19:21] <pleia2> When I was back in Pennsylvania a couple members of the team reached out to Mt Airy Learning Tree (MALT), an adult education center where they took old PCs from a local computer recycling program and set up a networked Linux Lab for them
[19:22] <pleia2> In the case someone in the team had a contact with MALT and was able to make the arrangements to bring the team in, but this isn't all that unusual, perhaps you know of a center that could use a computer lab, or someone else in your team has worked with one :)
[19:22] <pleia2> Ask around, make an introduction and make it happen!
[19:22] <pleia2> How about schools?
[19:23] <pleia2> Getting into schools can be a tricky one, but not impossible
[19:23] <pleia2> Last year the Pennsylvania Team was invited to a roundtable at Millersville University discussing Open Source options, the event was very well-attended
[19:23] <pleia2> Page about the event: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/EventsTeam/MillersvilleUniversityFOSS2010
[19:23] <pleia2> And a writeup w/ link to photos on facebook can be found here: http://ubuntupennsylvania.org/?p=60
[19:24] <pleia2> (unfortunately this happened 2 days after I moved, so I couldn't attend!)
[19:24] <pleia2> Anyway, if your team is approached with such an opportunity I highly recommend taking them up on it! Higher education institutes also often have computer clubs that you can work with whose reach is further into the wider student body
[19:25] <pleia2> Unfortunately my experience here in the US getting into public primary schools is nearly impossible, they are government run and there is a considerable amount of bureaucracy and funding politics
[19:25] <pleia2> There are also laws and regulations in place to protect children limiting non-parent adults in schools while they are in session and working with children, some areas even go as far as doing background checks and getting fingerprints of non-parent volunteers
[19:26] <pleia2> But it's not hopeless! I'm a member of the non-profit partimus.org which works with a few schools in the San Francisco Bay Area to put Ubuntu desktops into schools
[19:26] <pleia2> How did we do it? We are fortunate to have an out-going leader who approached a couple charter schools in the area about setting up a free lab in their schools
[19:27] <pleia2> Here in the US charter schools are public schools but outside the realms of the traditional public school, so they have their own funding structure and a lot more flexibility to spend the money they get from the government in creative ways
[19:27] <pleia2> wikipedia has more information about them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charter_school
[19:29] <pleia2> we've found that the schools in our area focused on great teachers and let things like their building and computer facilities languish, so when approached with an opportunity for a non-profit to provide them with a lab they are often very excited about the idea
[19:29] <pleia2> Through those first couple of schools the word spread and we're now in 5 schools and an after school program, one of those schools is actually a traditional public school and we manage the lab for their library, more here: http://partimus.org/projects.php
[19:30] <pleia2> When Partimus needs volunteers a call is put out to several local LUG lists and Ubuntu California, our project page about it can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/Partimus
[19:30] <pleia2> Most important about this story is that Ubuntu California has teamed up with an existing non-profit to make this happen so even if you don't feel able to approach schools on your own there may be someone inside a school working toward this already! Or some existing non-profit in your area you can work with!
[19:31] <pleia2> It's really all about connections when working with these kinds of organizations in your area
[19:31] <pleia2> So, how do you make these connections?
[19:31] <pleia2> This is one way you can really engage folks in your team who may not know how else they can help!
[19:32] <pleia2> Ask others in your LoCo whether they know of any local organizations which can benefit from a presentation on open source or help with a computer lab, perhaps some of your members have worked with after school programs or other community centers
[19:32] <pleia2> From there, ask them to ask their friends and family the same and look around for non-profits in the area specializing in bringing technology to local groups
[19:33] <pleia2> Even if they're not using open source now, it can be a great way to find people who are on the ground doing work and expose them to the options - and most of all offer them help and support with the open source options
[19:33] <pleia2> But what if you really can't find anyone with connections?
[19:33] <pleia2> lcafiero's question fits perfectly in with this!
[19:34] <ClassBot> lcafiero asked: Speaking about missionary work, how about other areas like farmers markets? In Felton (Santa Cruz County) we have had success promoting Linux in general, including Ubuntu, at a farmers market at the "organic software" table
[19:34] <pleia2> Earlier this week Charlene Tessier did a great presentation on "Marketing Ubuntu at Your Local Farmer's Markets" which she blogged about here: http://frenchfortunecookie.wordpress.com/2011/07/20/ucw-marketing-ubuntu-at-local-festivals-and-markets/
[19:35] <pleia2> I highly recommend reading the logs from that session if you're unfamiliar with the work of the Vancouvery LoCo team reaching out to traditionally less technical groups
[19:36] <pleia2> Off the top of my head I know the New Jersey team has set up booths at a local Flea Market, and North Carolina had a booth at a goat festival
[19:36] <pleia2> You meet all kinds of people, and while you're at these booths you can offer presentations on open source and system and computer lab assistance to people you meet who are involved with local organizations!
[19:38] <ClassBot> semitones asked: Any tips on how to get started letting people know about Ubuntu with a small stack of cds and a sign?
[19:38] <pleia2> I'd recommend taking that small stack of CDs and sign to some kind of event in your community
[19:39] <pleia2> lcafiero mentioned farmers markets, up in Berkeley every year we also participate in a "main street" event called the Solano Stroll
[19:39] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/SolanoStroll2010 is our project page from last year
[19:40] <pleia2> here's a picture of the crowd: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Projects/SolanoStroll2010?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Solano2010_2.jpg
[19:40] <pleia2> we were just one of those many, many booths :)
[19:41] <pleia2> now often times these booths can cost money, but if you team up with a non-profit in your area you can often get the booths for much cheaper, or free, in the case of the Solano Stroll the booth is run by Partimus and Ubuntu California folks volunteer
[19:41] <ClassBot> dscassel93 asked: LoCos can cover large areas. Have you had any luck (or can you share stories) about reaching out to groups outside your city or town?
[19:43] <pleia2> I know some folks who drive all over their large area to attend events, in Pennsylvania we have two major cities - Philadelphia and Pittsburgh which are about 6 hours apart
[19:43] <pleia2> we've had folks drive across the state for them!
[19:44] <pleia2> from Pennsylvania I've driven to New Jersey and New York to attend events, and here in California I flew down to Los Angeles for a booth and ubucon at the southern california linux expo
[19:45] <pleia2> it can be tricky to help with events if you can't physically make it, but there are administrative tasks involved with events that people can do from anywhere
[19:45] <pleia2> setting up the event on loco.ubuntu.com, sending out email reminders about the event, recruiting volunteers, following up after the event to make sure the people who took photos get those photos put somewhere online
[19:47] <pleia2> the FreeGeekPenn group I worked with in Pennsylvania was located about an hour from where I lived, but we mostly helped by giving them online and over the phone support
[19:47] <pleia2> I only actually visited their location once or twice
[19:48] <pleia2> any other questions?
[19:50] <ClassBot> There are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:51] <pleia2> I'll wrap up by saying all the collaborations I've been a part of with other local groups have been very rewarding for everyone involved, your LoCo doesn't have to be alone out there!
[19:51] <pleia2> and I'll be here through through the end of my time here to answer any other questions that pop up :)
[19:55] <ClassBot> There are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:57] <ClassBot> semitones asked: are there any materials that are already made like printable cd sleeves that would help with working with other groups?
[19:57] <pleia2> great question!
[19:57] <pleia2> http://spreadubuntu.org/ has lots of that kind of materials
[19:58] <pleia2> my own California team also has a repository of resources, which includes fliers and sleeves in bzr: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california
[19:58] <pleia2> (we should do a better job of contributing these to spreadubuntu)
[20:00] <ClassBot> Logs for this session will be available at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/20/%23ubuntu-classroom.html
[20:00] <pleia2> well, that's it! thanks everyone :)
[20:15] <psssss> ÷ìàñèêè


[00:21] <ubptgbot> Yongq Xxx was added by: Yongq Xxx
[04:22] <ubptgbot> <Golden Monk> @Steve Kueffer [A brand new video from Erfan is published here:  … https://gofund.me/acb31504], gr8 project
[04:35] <ubptgbot> xing139 was added by: xing139
[05:03] <ubptgbot> <Николайка Королёв> Hi everyone. Do the links to anbox-data work, and then I drove in the commands, and I can't find the links anywhere: … " … Links to Android libraries can be made in the form of corresponding similar XDG libraries: … ln-s ~/anbox-data/data/media/0/Documents ~/Documents/android … ln-s ~/anbox-data/data/media/0/Pictures ~/Pictures/
[05:03] <ubptgbot> android … ln-s ~/anbox-data/data/media/0/Music ~/Music/android … ln-s ~/anbox-data/data/media/0/Movies ~/Videos/android … " … Paragraph with Vicky ubports: … https://docs.ubports.com/ru/latest/userguide/dailyuse/anbox.html?highlight=anbox#access-android-storage
 those commands should make the links, they do not exist out of the box
[06:31] <ubptgbot> Zaki Perales was added by: Zaki Perales
[06:41] <ubptgbot> Wai Lin was added by: Wai Lin
[08:19] <ubptgbot> Paul BLAYLOCK was added by: Paul BLAYLOCK
[09:31] <ubptgbot> H@ñß9ñ was added by: H@ñß9ñ
 hey everyone
 what new on ubuntu touch?
 any new api or feature for developer?
 @H@ñß9ñ [what new on ubuntu touch?], If you read through the latest Q&A sessions that will provide most of the news
 @Stereofont [If you read through the latest Q&A sessions that will provide most of the news], hmm i missed it
 You can read them all
 https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-news-1/post/ubuntu-touch-q-a-100-3754
 ok thanks
 Of course you are also welcome to listen but it takes longer 😁
[12:55] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> I got an issue with my Sony Xperia Performance X. The ringtone won't sound when I receive a call. I installed Ubuntu in December and it was all good. Until a few weeks ago. Now the ringtone is gone. The phone vibrates. I get notification sound for texts etc. I can even hear the ringtone when when I select a new tone in settings, so
[12:55] <ubptgbot> it isn't a hardware issue. It had an Ubuntu update a few weeks ago and I think that's when the problem started. My OS is: Ubuntu 16.04 (OTA-16). The phone definitely isn't on silent mode !! And I have done a Full Reset - but the ringtone is still gone. I'd really appreciate any help guys
 @Paul BLAYLOCK [I got an issue with my Sony Xperia Performance X. The ringtone won't sound when …], OTA17 is out, maybe an update will help?
[12:59] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> @klaartje_b [OTA17 is out, maybe an update will help?], Thanks for the reply. I'm 'checking for updates' on my phone, but it's just spinning, and finding nothing
 Any chance it's set to only update on wifi and that you are on mobile? Just a long shot...
[13:15] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> @klaartje_b [Any chance it's set to only update on wifi and that you are on mobile? Just a lo …], I'm on OTA-17 now, but still no ringtone😳
 Other than that I can't help but maybe someone else can, and otherwise try the forum.
 hm, i think it was a bug that happend on that one
[13:34] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> @mateosalta [hm, i think it was a bug that happend on that one], A bug on my phone model? Caused by an update? Because it was all fine until a few weeks ago. A phone that won't ring is fairly pointless. If my kids need me or work needs to talk to me.... 😕
 lets see, i will search. i remember mine wasnt ringing oncr
 have you tried assigning a new one? is it a custom ringtone or one of the preinstalled ones?
 Is there support coming for the OnePlus 5 or 6T?
 I read something about native Linux kernel support coming for the 6/6T at some point.
 ubuntu touch is not really mature on mainline
 but the only mainline device for now is pinephone/pinetab
 @SKC1985 [Is there support coming for the OnePlus 5 or 6T?], Onelus 5 is near finish line, yes. Right this weekend we will do the installer configs
 Then you can try
 Only fingerprint is nor working
 Ooh, looking forward to that.
 But not with mainline kernel
 Question
 Is ubu touch gsi v10 installer android Q? Do I need to flash Q vendors and stuff along those lines
[15:30] <ubptgbot> <Paul BLAYLOCK> @Javacookies [have you tried assigning a new one? is it a custom ringtone or one of the preins …], Hi, I've tried installing a new ringtone, from the preinstalled list. I can actually hear the ringtones when selecting a new one. I just wont sound when someone calls😂
 Wow so the new Anbox on UT demo is quite impressive (reposting): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mDiOrrFCgU Great work devs!
 So since it runs a "full" LineageOS I think it takes a lot of custom work out of building up drivers, etc? If the hardware supports LineageOS, then the hardware is all linked up (acceleration, sensors, etc)? Will be interested to see what sort of "battery hit" it takes, but am surprised to see it running so fluidly in such a short time!!?
[15:44] <ubptgbot> ?!!
 Doe gsi installer v10 reqiure android 10 vendors and stuff>
 ?
 Will I need LineageOS 17?
 @Emily [Doe gsi installer v10 reqiure android 10 vendors and stuff>], The GSI installer is based on Android 9. It has a lot of things broken and isn't officially supported any more. Check out https://docs.ubports.com/porting to learn more about bringing Ubuntu Touch to your device.
 I wish I had the experiance to do that sadge
 Can't get experience if you don't try
 True
[16:01] <ubptgbot> zedcheung was added by: zedcheung
[16:02] <ubptgbot> <Samy Lacroix> Hi, i have some functionnalities which works well with wifi and not with 4G (mms, message emission with axolotl, futify). I suspect a problem with my APN congiguration. Is there some french here using SFR as network operator ?
 @Samy Lacroix [Hi, i have some functionnalities which works well with wifi and not with 4G (mms …], Which device?
[16:04] <ubptgbot> <Samy Lacroix> Sony xperia X with ota17
 I'm the porter of the Xperia X but even I have problems with 4G on my devices (even on my iPad). I usually run on 3g as my carrier has problems that I can't fix.
[16:24] <ubptgbot> <Samy Lacroix> Ok. I ve tried to use 3G. But it does not solve problems i have with futify and axololt. For mms reception i can't try for now. Do you succeed to use axolotl or futify with mobile data ? (maybe you re using these app)
[17:42] <ubptgbot> xlmnxp was added by: xlmnxp
 Can someone help me
 I have no avilible wifi networks im being told
 And when I go to software license the network managers says it can't be displayes
 wait, hol' up, backtrack. what device is this on?
 RN8
 it safe to assume its running ubuntu touch?
 YES
 Caps
 have you ever connected to wifi on it before?
 I connected to wifi on Lin OS before I flashed ubu touch
 hmm it might be device specific bug in UT then
 how did you flash it? i can't find it on the list
 gsi v10 launcher with the kernal and post installer compiled for ginkgo
 As well as helium ramdisk patch
 ah the gsi
 tho i'm unsure if wifi is supposed to work on the gsi
 Time to go attempt to port it officialy lmao
 even though i have no experience whatsoever in this
 It'll be fun
 many started with zero experience. tigerpro for example.
 Is ubu touch gonna stay on ubuntu 16.somth or is it gonna update to 18 or 20 at some point
 he started in a time porting was more difficult then it is now too so it took him 2-3 years to do it. nowadays it seems to move much quicker
 update to 20 is a work in progress
 @Fuseteam [many started with zero experience. tigerpro for example.], and if I somehow get it ported so it works ill try sailfish because why not its more experiance
 @Fuseteam [update to 20 is a work in progress], Oh sick
 @Emily [and if I somehow get it ported so it works ill try sailfish because why not its …], fun hehe
 and sailfish looks good as well,  I'm on a kick of trying every rom I can till i find my absolute fav
 WSL time
 77 packages can be upgraded.
 lol
 thanks windows
 d
 lol
 @Fuseteam [lol], you seem cool, you got a disc?
 @Emily [you seem cool, you got a disc?], disc? like a discman?
 Discord
 oh yeah i do, i'm not as active as i used to be tho
 [Edit] oh yeah i do, i'm not as active as i used to be on tho
 tis basically the same username on there too
 @Fuseteam [tis basically the same username on there too], PM me on here with your name and tag
 @Javacookies [have you tried assigning a new one? is it a custom ringtone or one of the preins …], im always in slient mode anyway...
 dude porting ubu touch is so much easier the sailfish
 @Fuseteam [no devices are similar to it, you'll need to make a image specific for your devi …], hardwork. thanks
 @Emily [PM me on here with your name and tag], i'm @fuseteam on discord as well
 whats the the tag after the #
 i'm positive there are no other fuseteam's on discord :P
 i think it was 8431
 Cause i need it to add ppl
 Can yall help? Idk how to make a .xml file through ubuntu terminal
 you want to write one or generate one?
 writing one is as simply as nano this-is.xml
 [Edit] writing one is as simply as `nano this-is.xml`
 then edit as format as intended
 Generate one
 hmm not too sure about how one is generated let alone on UT 👌
 [Edit] hmm not too sure about how one is generated let alone on UT
 Do you know anyone who speaks Spanish, English, Portuguese fluently?
 i know of a server where there are fluent spanish and portugue: speakers that also speak english
 but on such a short notice i'll be hard to ask them
 [Edit] i know of a discord server where there are fluent spanish and portugue: speakers that also speak english
 @Fuseteam [but on such a short notice i'll be hard to ask them], Would it be possible to ask them if they want to be translators to assist us in planning Ubucon America?
 if there was more time, they are mostly focussed on learning language
 Understand.
[19:48] <ubptgbot> FuckingFabolous was added by: FuckingFabolous
 Wo
 [Edit] Wow
 Can J6  has halium 9 and ubuntu touch booted??
 Have someone done it before?
 Is anyone having problems with ubports ?
 (Photo, 960x1280) https://irc.ubports.com/0Yz8svxt.png
[20:12] <ubptgbot> F_P_S was added by: F_P_S
 Hi. I've been tinkering with my UT tablet trying to set up an VPN client and I found out that the openvpn version is 2.3.10 which does not support 'tls-crypt' option. Are there any plans to update the openvpn version shipped with UT? I'm running 16.04 OTA-17. Thanks in advance. 😉
 @alera_on [Would it be possible to ask them if they want to be translators to assist us in …], What do you need exactly? Real-time voice translation, or translation of written text before the event?
 ?
 I can't find 16.0 Lin OS source for Ginkgo, can someone help me? I'm trying to port to Ginkgo
 I can only find Lin OS 17/1
 [Edit] I can only find Lin OS 17.1
 @ee [What do you need exactly? Real-time voice translation, or translation of written …], A person who performs the role of translator to assist the team's communication.  I canceled the meeting but, if it were possible to have someone who was able to understand and speak fluently, it would help us a lot.
 @Emily [I can't find 16.0 Lin OS source for Ginkgo, can someone help me? I'm trying to p …], join https://t.me/ubports_porting
 Emily https://gitlab.com/ubports/community-ports/android9/xiaomi-redmi-note-8t/kernel-xiaomi-willow
 Can I use it arm64-ab?
 @Samy Lacroix [Hi, i have some functionnalities which works well with wifi and not with 4G (mms …], Maybe ask in the french group  … https://t.me/UBports_French (I’m on sosh) but I’m sure someone will hep you for apn settings
 Emily please test https://gitlab.com/ubports/community-ports/android9/xiaomi-redmi-note-8t/xiaomi-willow/-/jobs/1285977154/artifacts/browse/out/
 both files can be flashed to respective partitions via fastboot, and make sure to either wipe data or remove /data/android-rootfs.img + /data/rootfs.img
 Is there a dedicated group for Teleports giys? Having major issues with it all of a sudden
 [Edit] Is there a dedicated group for Teleports guys? Having major issues with it all of a sudden
 @theare27 [Is there a dedicated group for Teleports guys? Having major issues with it all o …], for me, teleports crashes my phone. i dont know about a group
 Always been functional for me until today. Now won,t load any chat groups. Tried everything including reinstallation after clearing data
[23:27] <ubptgbot> unmakeme92 was added by: unmakeme92