[14:56] <theodotos[m]> I'm fine. At home recovering from something the docs don't have a name for, yet :).


[00:09] <JonCharge> Can any one here set importance?
[00:14] <JonCharge> Ampelbein, ping
[00:14] <Ampelbein> JonCharge:
[00:14] <JonCharge> https://bugs.launchpad.net/apt/+bug/351076
[00:15] <JonCharge> Suggest medium
[00:15] <JonCharge> And the bug I think has enough information for a dev to start working on it.
[00:15] <Ampelbein> looking
[00:18] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: why medium? i would set it to low, it's an unsual hardware.
[00:19] <JonCharge> It meets two of the criteria for medium I think.
[00:19] <JonCharge> A bug that has a severe impact on a non-core application.
[00:19] <JonCharge> A problem with a non-essential hardware component (network card, camera, webcam, music player, sound card, power management feature, printer, etc.)
[00:19] <JonCharge> But I defer to your judgement.
[00:19] <JonCharge> You are more experienced. :)
[00:20] <JonCharge> When I looked at     * Bugs/Importance
[00:21] <JonCharge> I'll go with low if that is what you want to do.
[00:21] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: you could also argument that it meets two criteria for low: uncommon hardware and usability issue.
[00:21] <JonCharge> Ah...
[00:21] <JonCharge> Your right.
[00:21] <Ampelbein> i think we should not discuss to deeply about importance.
[00:21] <JonCharge> Ok
[00:22] <JonCharge> I'm new at this.
[00:22] <JonCharge> :)
[00:22] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: no problem, thanks for helping ;-)
[00:22] <JonCharge> Anytime.
[00:22] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: another thing: launchpad uses tags to identify some issues. there is a tag "packaging" which would apply here.
[00:23] <Ampelbein> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags
[00:24] <JonCharge> tagged, and I'll read that doc
[00:24] <Ampelbein> and if you use pgp/mime we won't see your pgp-signature on the comments ;-) (just cosmetical)
[00:24] <JonCharge> I'll do that.  Do you know how to keep the commands out of the comments?
[00:29] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: don't know. but they don't cause harm.
[00:29] <JonCharge> ok
[00:30] <Ampelbein> i've set it to triaged/medium, following your suggestion.
[00:30] <JonCharge> ok
[00:30] <Ampelbein> thanks for your work.
[00:30] <JonCharge> No problem :)
[00:32] <JonCharge> I have applied to the bug control team, should hear back shortly I think.
[00:40] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: have you already sent a mail with your application?
[00:45] <JonCharge> Ampelbein, yes, I have...
[00:46] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: found it already, commenting a bit.
[00:46] <JonCharge> oh ok, I was about to link it
[01:04] <Ampelbein> JonCharge: wrote a reply, sadly i can't give a +1 yet. please read my comments and the documentation provided again.
[01:05] <JonCharge> I will, and thank you for the feedback.
[04:59] <torkiano> hello all, can someone help me triaging bug #344705
[04:59] <torkiano> Is needed more info?
[06:14] <dholbach> good morning
[06:38] <YoBoY> hi
[07:35] <thekorn> good morning bugsquad
[08:50] <dominiks> morning bugsquad
[08:52] <dominiks> bug 98626 was closed in Debian 3 days ago.. how long does it take for LP to reflect status changes of bugs in remote watch please?
[08:52] <xhochy> Could I please get a wishlist importance for bug 351427 ?
[13:20] <liw> could someone mark #349653 as "triaged"? (I'm the developer of the package, it has all the info I need, but I don't have the LP priviledges to change to triaged, just confirmed)
[13:25] <pedro_> liw: done
[14:00] <Hobbsee> liw: why don't you have the developer privs?
[14:00] <liw> Hobbsee, because I suck, mainly
[14:00] <liw> (by being lazy)
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ah
[14:00] <Hobbsee> it probably only takes a mail saying "please add me to the team", based on who you are, though
[14:17] <BUGabundo> asac: around?
[14:18] <BUGabundo> I did ran that comand line you gave me to see why wifi would not connect with low signal
[14:18] <BUGabundo> nothing to special there....
[14:18] <BUGabundo> it didn't hopped channel
[15:17] <bddebian> Boo
[15:18] <thekorn> hello bddebian
[15:19] <Hobbsee> argh!  you scared me, bddebian!  ;)
[15:19] <bddebian> Hi the
[15:19] <bddebian> Err thekorn
[15:19] <bddebian> Heya Hobbsee!
[15:20] <BUGabundo> foo
[15:30] <dominiks> bug 98626 was closed in Debian 3 days ago.. how long does it take for LP to reflect status changes of bugs in remote watch please?
[15:53] <hggdh> dominiks, should be at most one day
[16:01] <yofel> could somebody with the rights mark bug 351389 as wishlist please
[16:04] <BUGabundo> yofel: they better!
[16:04] <BUGabundo> its going to take a while on both counts
[16:04] <BUGabundo> adobe flash install package is no where to be fund
[16:04] <BUGabundo> *found
[16:05] <BUGabundo> and even if we have java 64 bits
[16:05] <BUGabundo> there is not applet
[16:05] <dominiks> hggdh: thanks for info.. i'll just wait bit more then :)
[16:06] <hggdh> yofel, we cannot sanely provide an alpha version of flash as the official distribution
[16:06] <yofel> ok
[16:07]  * hggdh also wishes for the 64-bit flash...
[16:08] <BUGabundo> hggdh: I use 64bits no prob there
[16:08] <BUGabundo> just don't have source :(
[16:08] <BUGabundo> java on the other hand is trieker
[16:08] <BUGabundo> but that's over my head.... no idea what lacks to make the applet
[16:13] <hggdh> BUGabundo, the issue is not if it seems to work, but the fact it is *alpha*: guaranteed to be unstable...
[16:14] <BUGabundo> hggdh: hasn't give me any trouble
[16:14] <BUGabundo> other then some PA issues
[16:14] <BUGabundo> but latest PA works fine
[16:14] <BUGabundo> as you can see on my webcam stream
[16:15] <hggdh> I do not doubt it; I just do not see a reason to add an alpha version of a package in an official distribution. Of course, nothing against having it in a PPA, for example
[16:16] <BUGabundo> that's the 2nd prob
[16:16] <BUGabundo> gnomefreak already tried ti
[16:16] <BUGabundo> but there is no secure sourse of the package
[16:16] <gnomefreak> huh?
[16:16] <BUGabundo> no md5, nothing
[16:16] <BUGabundo> hey gnomefreak
[16:17] <gnomefreak> hi BUGabundo
[16:17] <BUGabundo> just talking about flash 64bits packaign
[16:17] <BUGabundo> someone oned yet another wish bug to packaged it
[16:17] <gnomefreak> let one of the motu guys worry about that there is alot of changes to files/scripts
[16:17] <gnomefreak> that are needed
[18:05] <bond`> who maintains flashplugin-nonfree?
[18:05] <jpds> I think it's being replaced by adobe-flashplugin in the partner repo.
[18:06] <BUGabundo> gym time ppl! see you tomorrow
[18:12] <bond`> jpds: so flashplugin-nonfree should not be used anymore?
[18:49] <kees> bdmurray: is there a bzr tree anywhere for scripts for doing common bug repsonses?
[18:49] <bdmurray> kees: via launchpadlib?
[18:49] <kees> right
[18:49] <bdmurray> no, I think that would fit well in ubuntu-qa-tools though
[18:50] <bdmurray> I've a couple I've been meaning to add
[18:50] <kees> what's the url for that?
[18:50] <sbeattie> mutt-scripts/b-tool should be easy to extend in that direction.
[18:50] <kees> the security team wants to push our scripts out into the public
[18:50] <bdmurray> lp:ubuntu-qa-tools ;-)
[19:21] <kees> bdmurray: okay, I just shoved a mess of stuff in there.  I'll probably move lpl_common.py to ubuntu-dev-tools when karmic opens
[19:30] <jpds> kees: You can do so now if you like, I  don't plan to make any more u-d-t uploads till karmic.
[19:31] <kees> jpds: okay
[19:40] <greg_> Can anyone confirm that, while using the 9.04 beta, a "side by side" install might take a while, without any notification, before progressing to the "who are you? page?
[20:23] <Ryan52> kees: heh. should I just ask you directly instead of filing bugs next time? :P
[20:23]  * Ryan52 notes that ryanakca's changes didn't even work..
[20:52] <kees> Ryan52: well, file bugs, but ping me, yeah.  I've reworked the whole thing now, so one can use --distro=debian and it should work.
[20:53] <kees> Ryan52: mostly I didn't like the multiple tests for "if debian".  it needed to be much more generalized
[20:53] <kees> however, having a patch to work from helps greatly to see which pieces needed to be abstracted.
[20:56] <Ryan52> ok, thanks.
[21:19] <donspaulding> python's virtualenv utility is broken with python2.6 on jaunty.  The only bug I can find for this is https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/339904 which doesn't have any solution in sight.  A similar issue (though I'm not sure it is an identical problem) is reported as fixed upstream at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=518826 .  How can I verify if the upstream package fixes the virtualenv issue?
[21:22] <donspaulding> i.e.  I'm willing to go out and install the debian package, if that won't totally hose my system.
[23:19] <maxb> hosing potential is sufficiently high that I wouldn't try that on *my* system
[23:27] <maxb> donspaulding: What does virtualenv do and how might I test it, anyway?
[23:27] <Bodsda> Hi, im having problems using gdb, the wiki says to use ctrl+c after continue to go to the next step of debugging an already running application, but ctrl+c stops gdb completely
[23:28] <Bodsda> O1;2P
[23:28] <Bodsda> oops
[23:29] <maxb> Bodsda: Which wiki page do you refer to?
[23:29] <Bodsda> maxb: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace#Already%20running%20programs
[23:33] <maxb> Bodsda: I think you are misreading the wiki. It says to use Ctrl-C to break into the (gdb) prompt
[23:35] <Bodsda> maxb: im not sure what you mean, step 5: The program will continue running. Perform any actions necessary to reproduce the crash. If the program hangs but doesn't crash you can press ctrl+c in gdb while the program is frozen and then continue with the next step. -- i read that as meaning press ctrl+c to get back to the (gdb) prompt
[23:37] <Ampelbein> Bodsda: only if the program freezes
[23:37] <Ampelbein> Bodsda: if it crashes you are back at the gdb-prompt
[23:38] <Bodsda> Ampelbein: the program is already frozen -- the section of the wiki im quoting is headed "Already running programs"
[23:38] <Bodsda> the program is gnome-panel, and it is frozen upon login
[23:39] <Ampelbein> Bodsda: can you give a screenshot explaining? you attach via gdb --pid <pidofgnome-panel> ?
[23:41] <Bodsda> Ampelbein: I attach by doing exactly as it says in step three of the already running programs section https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Backtrace#Already%20running%20programs  A screenshot wont help, the panels appear normal, but are completely non-responsive
[23:41] <Ampelbein> a screenshot of the gdb-prompt
[23:42] <Bodsda> Ampelbein: what are you hoping to see?
[23:42] <Ampelbein> Bodsda: where you want to type ctrl-c.
[23:43] <Ampelbein> ctrl-c only makes sense after continuing
[23:43] <Ampelbein> otherwise you can just do the backtrace
[23:43] <seb128> Bodsda: just run gdb --pid $(pidof gnome-panel)
[23:43] <seb128> and they you can "bt"
[23:44] <Bodsda> sorry, im trying something someone suggested in #ubntu+1, il be back in a sec
[23:47] <Bodsda> got it to work
[23:47] <Bodsda> followed these instructions: < syockit> Bodsda: (1) run gdb without any parameters, i.e. just gdb (2) follow the steps until before attach (3) do  the following: set logging file gdb-<program>.txt (4) do: set logging on (5) attach the process (6) do: c   to continue (7) ctrl-c to return to gdb (8) q to quit at any time
[23:47] <Bodsda> thanks guys
[23:47] <Bodsda> hey Rocket2DMn
[23:47] <donspaulding> maxb: sorry, wasn't watching this window
[23:47] <maxb> donspaulding: Looks to me like the package may be completely broken by the Python changes in Jaunty...
[23:48] <donspaulding> you can sudo a-g install virtualenv
[23:48] <donspaulding> err, python-virtualenv, that is
[23:48] <donspaulding> maxb: yes, that's what it looks like
[23:48] <donspaulding> maxb: virtualenv let's you isolate working environments when developing python applications.
[23:49] <donspaulding> e.g. you can install two different versions of django on the same machine and each environment keeps track of which library it has installed.
[23:50] <maxb> The package builds fine if you add an --install-layout=deb to the setup.py install command, but it still doesn't work.  I think it's going to require source changes to accomodate the changed python default layout
[23:51] <donspaulding> maxb: it's an incredibly useful tool, and it'll be the first thing hundreds of python devs try to use as soon as jaunty is released, so I think it ought to get fixed before jaunty rolls out, if at all possible.
[23:51] <donspaulding> what caused the shift from site-packages to dist-packages?
[23:55] <JanC> avoiding problems with some upstream python libraries when you install them manually, I think
[23:57] <JanC> donspaulding: so partially the same reason why you use virtualenv I suppose...  ;-)
[23:57] <donspaulding> JanC: yeah, virtualenv will one day rule the python packaging world, it's just not there yet ;-)
[23:59] <JanC> well, it's mainly useful if you want to "container" a specific python + libraries for one application, right?
[23:59] <JanC> OTOH I think that what Debian/Ubuntu want is that their system-wide install keeps working


[07:04] <TB2014TB> I was wondering what do I do if I have one bad Repository
[11:22] <cubeast> hey is there a recent armhf rootfs image f(possibly LTS 14.04) or lubuntu?
[11:23] <cubeast> for*
[11:48] <JohnDoe_71Rus> cubeast: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!category-topic/cubieboard/debian/vDWJ2T-HYY4
[22:50] <TB2014TB> how to install open office on lubuntu am having a lot of trouple
[23:05] <[FR]Dae> sudo apt install - libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc
[23:06] <[FR]Dae> u're welcome
[23:40] <Supermanintights> hey guys, I have the latest version of lubuntu (I believe), but I'm having issues downloading the intel graphics installer - I can't seem to get the latest one as the installer won't work on lubuntu, and the source code won't compile for me
[23:41] <Supermanintights> graphics driver is Mobile-Intel-915GM-GMS-910GML-Express-Chipset-Family
[23:48] <ianorlin> Supermanintights: the one includied with the kernel is the intel one and works with the version of xorg you installed
[23:48] <Supermanintights> hmm, i'm suffering really bad frame rate issues with any video I play
[23:48] <Supermanintights> be it via youtube, plex or vlc
[23:49] <Supermanintights> I assumed it was a gfx driver issue, am I looking in the wrong place?
[23:49] <ianorlin> which intel graphics as there are a lot of them
[23:50] <Supermanintights> graphics driver is Mobile-Intel-915GM-GMS-910GML-Express-Chipset-Family
[23:51] <Supermanintights> well that's the graphics card
[23:51] <Supermanintights> it's running on an old EEEPC 1000HD - it should be enough for basic video playback which is what I'm trying to sort out now


[18:16] <Rocket2DMn> Hey guys, what did we decide about CategoryDocumentation?
[19:11] <nhandler> mdke: Since you agreed that we should have a karmic branch for gnome-user-docs, could you possibly create lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic and take care of setting that as trunk?
[19:19] <mdke> nhandler: I can create the branch but won't set it as trunk, because it isn't :)
[19:20] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: to get rid of it on the help wiki, over time
[19:21] <nhandler> mdke: So what is the difference between the lp:gnome-user-docs branch and the lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-karmic branch?
[19:21] <mdke> nhandler: lp:gnome-user-docs is an import of upstream svn
[19:21] <mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic and the other ubuntu branches have Ubuntu customisations
[19:28] <mdke> (and the packaging)
[19:30] <nhandler> mdke: Oh, ok. And is the lp:gnome-user-docs always in sync with upstream? Or do we manually update it?
[19:31] <mdke> nhandler: it's automatically synched. But I don't know if that will need to be changed for the move to git
[19:31] <nhandler> mdke: I thought they had tools (or were making tools) that allowed us to keep bzr branches in sync with svn/cvs/git branches for when archive reorganization comes
[19:33] <mdke> nhandler: there are lots of bzr plugins around
[19:35] <mdke> i think cvs and svn are the only ones supported by LP at the moment, but I may be wrong
[19:54] <Rocket2DMn> alright thanks mdke , so if we are editing pages that have it, just remove it?
[19:54] <Rocket2DMn> I thought we had reached that conclusion, but I wanted to check
[20:05] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: yep
[20:05] <mdke> nhandler: ubuntu-karmic pushed up
[20:06] <Rocket2DMn> cool, i'm starting to get some solid organization for our summer of documentation.  we will be tracking progress on this page again - https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Beginners/Development
[20:06] <mdke> great
[20:07] <Rocket2DMn> The plan in my head right now is to officially start in May since Jaunty will be out by then
[20:07] <j1mc> :)
[20:07] <Rocket2DMn> and Gutsy will be EOL
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, did we decide that DocuMENTORS was dead?
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> e.g. the ubuntu-doc-students team?
[20:13] <Rocket2DMn> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc-students
[20:19] <Rocket2DMn> also have this old team lying around - https://launchpad.net/~wikiforumteam
[20:36] <missaugustina> Rocket2DMn: I just saw your mention of the DocuMENTORS team.  I joined that on Launchpad.  Is there a different team I should join?
[20:36] <Rocket2DMn> missaugustina, i'm not sure how it's going down exactly, there was discussion a few months ago about it
[20:37] <Rocket2DMn> people weren't really getting mentors i guess, but I don't think that team will disappear
[20:37] <Rocket2DMn> that wikiforimteam probably should though, that is old and unused
[20:39] <missaugustina> k, I didn't get the impression from DocuMENTORS that it was a one-on-one mentoring deal.
[20:39] <missaugustina> More like you are "in training" and folks on the list just point you in the right direction.
[20:40] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i think that is how it is in reality, but i think the original intent was to be assigned a mentor
[20:40] <missaugustina> yeah, that sounds like a pretty tall order :)
[20:42] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I don't think that it should disappear myself, I just think it needs simplifying
[20:42] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: the way it was implemented was too formal
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> simplifying++
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> what about that wikiforumteam though?
[20:43] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'll scrap the wikiforum team though, you're right
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> ok cool
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> One of the hardest things I've found about getting involved with the doc team is that there is stuff everywhere
[20:43] <Rocket2DMn> we've done a good job of organizing it over the last year, but its not perfect yet
[20:44] <missaugustina> There doesn't seem to be a consistent list of items and who's working on it.
[20:44] <mdke> missaugustina: the task list?
[20:45] <missaugustina> Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing?  For instance, Rhythmbox was listed as a to-do but there was someone already working on it.
[20:46] <Rocket2DMn> where we you lookng missaugustina ?  I'm not sure there really is a good way to mark pages as being worked on, its a community wiki, any page is fair game
[20:46] <missaugustina> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/SystemDocumentation/Tasks
[20:47] <missaugustina> Under the Kubuntu section there is a table with more details of task status and who is working on it.
[20:47] <Rocket2DMn> ah ok, you're talking about system documentation (duh, my bad)
[20:48] <missaugustina> Sorry for the confusion ;)
[20:48] <Rocket2DMn> I'm not entirely sure how they coordinate working on system docs exactly.
[20:50] <mdke> it's very difficult to run a table like that because it quickly gets out of date
[20:50] <missaugustina> It's no biggie, I was just agreeing that as a newbie, it can be challenging because things are a little spread out :)
[20:50] <missaugustina> Yeah I totally understand.
[20:50] <mdke> and the rhythmbox one is still an active task because it hasn't been completed
[20:52] <mdke> but yeah, we can always work on keeping things better up to date
[20:53] <Rocket2DMn> The sheer number of community doc pages is overwhelming, it is difficult to decide how to proceed with much of this
[20:53] <missaugustina> Maybe folks working on those tasks could just put their name next to it so people coming to the page know who to contact?
[20:53] <mdke> yes, maybe. Although the mailing list should always be the first point of contact
[20:55] <missaugustina> Makes sense to me :)  Thanks!
[20:55] <mdke> one good way to organise it would be to have a bug for every task, then you can check the bug for the status and current assignee
[20:57] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you want to take the bug route, maybe you want to add a bug link to each community doc page like we did with manpages?
[20:58] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: hmm?
[20:59] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I was just talking about having a bug for the tasks on our task pages
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> ah, that can be done, too
[20:59] <mdke> what were you suggesting?
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> take for example: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/intrepid/en/man1/yelp.1.html
[20:59] <Rocket2DMn> see that bug link at the top?
[21:00] <Rocket2DMn> you could do something like that official and community doc pages and have it default to filing against the ubuntu-docs package
[21:00] <mdke> we have that in the footer of the theme
[21:02] <Rocket2DMn> ah i see it on the official docs, though it goes to ubuntu-doc project, not ubuntu-docs package
[21:02] <Rocket2DMn> no such link on the community docs afaict
[21:03] <mdke> oh yeah. I'd rather encourage people to fix problems in the community docs themselves than collect bugs for those pages
[21:03] <mdke> but the WikiGuide page contains a link
[21:04] <Rocket2DMn> does the theme need to be updated to link to ubuntu-docs package instead of ubuntu-doc based on our new bug policy?
[21:04] <mdke> yes
[21:06] <Rocket2DMn> do we need to open a bug task for that, or will you just go ahead and do that sometime?
[21:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I thought it had already been done, but for some reason the change isn't working
[21:09] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: I'm digging into it now
[21:09] <Rocket2DMn> hmm, i see its ok on https://help.ubuntu.com/8.10/newtoubuntu/C/index.html
[21:10] <Rocket2DMn> seems to just be the homepages
[21:12] <mdke> ah, DOH
[21:13] <mdke> thanks Rocket2DMn
[21:15] <Rocket2DMn> np
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, question about a bug i'm working on - bug 352313
[21:24] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 352313 in ubuntu-docs "Grammar error" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/352313
[21:24] <Rocket2DMn> The bug appears in two places - virutalization.xml and jeos.xml in serverguide
[21:24] <mdke> ok
[21:25] <Rocket2DMn> the text is exactly the same in those sections of the documents - how/why?
[21:25] <mdke> shouldn't it be?
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> Well, I'm not entirely sure why documentation is being maintained in two places there
[21:26] <mdke> oh, it's a substantial section?
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> do I need to update both documents?  Or should they be Including?
[21:26] <mdke> I thought you just meant that the same sentence appeared twice
[21:26] <Rocket2DMn> yeah its a large part of the document
[21:27] <Rocket2DMn> or rather, is that virtualization document not correct, b/c looking at the build it is simply a table of contents type page
[21:27] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: ok, jeos.xml isn't used anymore as far as I can see, it's not included in serverguide.xml
[21:28] <mdke> sommer: jeos.xml can be removed I guess to avoid confusion
[21:28] <mdke> good spot Rocket2DMn
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> i dont see a serverguide.html
[21:28] <mdke> serverguide.xml
[21:28] <Rocket2DMn> let me rebuild
[21:29] <mdke> no, don't bother
[21:29] <Rocket2DMn> too late
[21:32] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, should I delete the jeos.xml file as part of my patch/diff?
[21:33] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: we can let sommer do it separately
[21:33] <Rocket2DMn> Ok, how do we go about that? Email? bug and assign to him?
[21:34] <mdke> Rocket2DMn: he'll take care of it, he's good at irc hilights
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> haha ok, i'll make a quick mention on the current bug report when i attach the patch as well
[21:35] <Rocket2DMn> this leads me to another question then - where is the xml->html filename correlation defined?
[21:36] <Rocket2DMn> its doesnt appear to be one-to-one or even simple includes
[21:36] <mdke> there isn't any correlation
[21:36] <mdke> the xsl stylesheets define what html files are build during the build
[21:37] <Rocket2DMn> ah, so where are those?
[21:38] <Rocket2DMn> libs?
[21:38] <mdke> well, we use standard ones installed by docbook-xsl, with some minor customisations in libs/
[21:39] <mdke> the names of the html files come from the section id's in the xml
[21:39] <mdke> so if you have "<sect1 id="video">", then that becomes video.html when we build the html
[21:40] <Rocket2DMn> ok, so all sect1 definitions become html files then?
[21:41] <mdke> possibly also sect2, I'm not 100% sure
[21:41] <Rocket2DMn> the one i checked wasnt a html
[21:42] <mdke> it depends on to what level of detail you "chunk" the html, i.e. split it into separate html files
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ok, thanks for clearing that up, that helps my understanding quite a bit
[21:42] <Rocket2DMn> ill have that patch in just a moment, only needed to remove one word :)
[21:43] <mdke> don't forget to use scripts/validate.sh before you send the patch, that is your best friend
[21:43] <Rocket2DMn> doin that now
[21:43] <mdke> so $ scripts/validate.sh serverguide/C/serverguide.xml
[21:44] <Rocket2DMn> some of the older versions didnt have a document/C/document naming convention, like for Hardy i think
[21:45] <Rocket2DMn> maybe im confusing myself
[21:47] <mdke> we've always used that structure
[21:48] <Rocket2DMn> yeah i just went back and checked
[21:48] <Rocket2DMn> im running circles around myself, dont mind me
[21:50] <Rocket2DMn> alright, the patch is uploaded to the bug report
[21:52] <mdke> thanks
[21:55] <Rocket2DMn> goin afk, thanks for the help matthew


[04:06] <pitti> bddebian: earlier it was built from the postgresql sources, but upstream removed it since it is a separate project now
[04:06] <bddebian> OK
[04:06] <pitti> bddebian: and I don't know a bit about Tcl, so I'm not particularly interested
[04:07] <lifeless> mjg59:  do you remember the # ?
[04:07] <bddebian> Well I don't know anything about anything but maybe I'll give it a shot. ;-)
[04:07] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: done. thanks for the reminder
[04:07] <ogra> seb128, it also stopped downloading pics from the net recently, so i cant see the replica watches in my spam anymore
[04:10] <seb128> ogra: view menu, "show deleleted messages"
[04:10] <ogra> seb128, nm, i'm an idiot... i had a serch filter set
[04:11] <seb128> k
[04:11] <ogra> i miss that very often, i wonder how to improve it
[04:11] <hughsie> mjg59: ping..
[04:11] <hughsie> ogra: you got a minute?
[04:12] <ogra> hughsie, a short one :)
[04:12] <hughsie> cool, thanks. in breezy, what commands will hibernate and suspend the machine?
[04:12] <hughsie> you have scripts right...
[04:12] <hughsie> just redesigning the hal launchers a bit
[04:12] <seb128> hughsie: pmi action suspend and pmi action hibernate I guess?
[04:13] <ogra> highvoltage, pmi
[04:13] <ogra> err hughsie
[04:13] <mjg59> pmi action suspend force and pmi action hibernate force
[04:13] <hughsie> seb128, ogra: what path is pmu in?
[04:13] <ogra> hughsie, pmi capabilities shows whats available for the machine
[04:13] <seb128> /usr/sbin
[04:13] <mjg59> It's in /usr/sbin
[04:13] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, there was a detail... don't remember quite well "Download language support" was translated to pt_BR despite we have selected pt from the beggining.... there is still this issue...
[04:13] <hughsie> cheers guys
[04:14] <ogra> mjg59, hmm, force is undocumented it seems
[04:14] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: I haven't uploaded your Portuguese translation of archive-copier yet; it's committed to my archive, but I tend to wait a while rather than make uploads with just one translation change
[04:15] <hughsie> mjg59: on elast question. does pmi let you set a low power state, a-la laptop mode?
[04:15] <WaterSevenUb> kamion, aah.. right :)
[04:16] <pitti> Lathiat: thanks for the trac update, uploaded
[04:17] <Kamion> WaterSevenUb: uploaded now
[04:17] <zyga> hello
[04:17] <Keybuk> spell checking is utterly rodneyed in openoffice.org2
[04:18] <pitti> Keybuk: you have interesting verbs...
[04:20] <Keybuk> why thankyou, I water them every day
[04:20] <hughsie> seb128: does pmi deal with laptopmode? ala powersaving?
[04:21] <seb128> hughsie: not a question for me
[04:23] <lamont> Setting up ntp-server (4.2.0a+stable-8ubuntu2) ...
[04:23] <lamont> Installing new version of config file /etc/init.d/ntp-server ...
[04:23] <lamont>  * Starting NTP server...                                                [ ok ]
[04:23] <lamont> Setting up ntp-simple (4.2.0a+stable-8ubuntu2) ...
[04:23] <lamont>  * Stopping NTP server...                                                [ ok ]
[04:23] <lamont>  * Starting NTP server...                                                [ ok ]
[04:23] <hughsie> seb128: okay, n/p
[04:26] <mjg59> hughsie: It doesn't, no. It probably should do.
[04:26] <mjg59> hughsie: If you'd like to define something, I can implement that.
[04:26] <mjg59> ogra: Yeah - I should update the docs. "force" means that it'll go to that state even if the configuration file says not to.
[04:29] <hughsie> mjg59: well, i was just looking at how powersave does it.
[04:29] <hughsie> mjg59: just setting a few kernel variables == easy
[04:32] <elmo> ogra: ?
[04:36] <bddebian> OK, I think I'm too stupid to package pgtcl :-(
[04:36] <stratus> fabbione: it seems that ath_rate_onoe kernel module into 2.6.12-8-686 was compiled into 2.6.12-3-686 or i'm missing something.
[04:36] <stratus> fabbione: is it the latest?
[04:42] <doko> Diziet, Keybuk: diversion question: is dpkg supposed to remove a diverted file/symlink on package removal and purge?
[04:43] <lifeless> Diziet: tla ?
[04:48] <Diziet> tla, yes.  Don't mind me, I'm just muttering to myself.
[04:49] <Diziet> doko: Do you mean is it supposed to remove A's /usr/bin/a which has been diverted to /usr/bin/a.b by B, when you purge A ?
[04:49] <Diziet> Or something else ?
[04:49] <Diziet> It might be clearer if you were less abstract :-).
[04:49] <Diziet> tla, in fact:
[04:50] <Diziet> struct rel_record { rel_field * _c; }
[04:50] <Diziet> va_arg (rp, rel_record)
[04:50] <stratus> php-banana has a nice short and full description
[04:50] <stratus> what's that?
[04:50] <Diziet> rel_add_records (&answer, /*...stuff...*/, 0);
[04:50] <doko> Diziet: yes, it does remove it, but I think, it's wrong
[04:50] <Diziet> 0 is not a valid value of type struct !
[04:51] <Diziet> Surely it should remove it ?  If you just installed B and it diverted /usr/bin/a to /usr/bin/a.b then you'd still not have a /usr/bin/a.b.  So surely after deinstalling A /usr/bin/a.b should be gone.
[04:51] <Diziet> Although diverted conffiles are known not to work properly.
[04:52] <Diziet> FSVO `properly'.  It's not clear what the semantics ought to be of attempting to divert a conffile.  `dpkg has detected that the package maintainer is on drugs.  Continue anyway ?'
[04:54] <doko> Diziet, wait elmo found the problem in another place, nothing to do with diversions ...
[04:55] <elmo> OGRA
[04:55] <ogra> elmo
[04:55] <ogra> whats wrong ?
[04:55] <Keybuk> doko: I was conveniently sitting next-to-ish elmo
[04:55] <elmo> ogra: pls fix xscreensaver-data KTHXBYE
[05:00] <Diziet> Anyone here know anything about ppc calling conventions ?
[05:00] <Diziet> Is it the case that with a varargs function, int args and pointer args are passed differently ?
[05:03] <Diziet> This is going to be a big patch.
[05:04] <ogra> elmo, do you have a hint for me whats wrong with it ?
[05:04] <elmo> ogra: missing Replaces: on xscreensaver
[05:05] <elmo> how on earth did you even manage to install test it?
[05:05] <ogra> elmo, replaces ?? its an additional package it shouldnt replace anything
[05:05] <pitti> sjoerd: here?
[05:05] <elmo> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xscreensaver-data_4.21-4ubuntu11_i386.deb (--unpack):
[05:05] <elmo>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/man/man6/ant.6x.gz', which is also in package xscreensaver
[05:05] <elmo> ogra: ^---
[05:06] <ogra> hmm... there shouldnt be any manpages in xscreensaver for the hack... so i'll fix xscreensaver ... thanks, i had no such prob here while testing
[05:06] <elmo> ogra: dude.  you can't fix xscreensaver
[05:07] <elmo> I'm upgrading from xscreensaver_old-version; short of a time machine, that package is a done deal
[05:07] <Keybuk> xscreenserver-data needs a Replaces on xscreensaver
[05:07] <ogra> but i dont want to replace xscreensaver ...
[05:07] <Lathiat> isnt it supposed to replaces << last version
[05:07] <pitti> but you do
[05:08] <Keybuk> ogra: you do
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: Replaces: does not (always) mean to replace the whole package
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: just replaces some files
[05:08] <ogra> err.. yup
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces != RPM Obsoletes
[05:08] <pitti> ogra: if you replace a whole package, you shuold additionally conflict to it
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces in dpkg means "I need to overwrite files"
[05:08] <ogra> sorry, i'm slow today it seems
[05:08] <Keybuk> Replaces+Conflicts is an "Obsoletes"
[05:08] <dholbach> elmo: could you pretty please sync  gnome-vfs  (the old one, universe) from sid?
[05:10] <Diziet> Joy.  173 calls to this function to be fixed.
[05:16] <ogra> ohhh, seb128 look at /apps/gnome-screensaver/themes :) we dont need to work around en/disabled screensavers apparently :)
[05:16] <ogra> how nice :)
[05:16] <elmo> dholbach: done
[05:16] <dholbach> elmo: merci beaucoup
[05:17] <seb128> ogra: right
[05:17] <dholbach> Mithrandir: thanks for that bug report
[05:18] <Diziet> (breezy-chroot)iwj@davis:~/tla-1.3.3$ find -name '*.c' | xargs ../fix-varargs rel_add_records rel_record_null
[05:20] <linuxsbartley> Can anyone tell me who is the best person to talk to about cups on 5.04 server install. i.e. w/out gnome tools.
[05:20] <jdub> pitti
[05:21] <elmo> Diziet: are you working on the tla powerpc ftbs?
[05:21] <pitti> btw, since tla is orphaned upstream, shouldn't we drop it to universe?
[05:21] <elmo> Diziet: if so, maybe we should consider just demoting tla and tla-tools instead
[05:22] <lifeless> Diziet: its all fixed in baz. just ship baz.
[05:22] <lifeless> _seriously_
[05:22] <lifeless> I'm no at all biased here or anything.
[05:22] <Lathiat> of course not
[05:22] <lifeless> :)
[05:22] <linuxsbartley> I have an 5.04 server installed system.  I have added xfce4 and cups.  I want to be able to configure printers using the localhost:631 swat configuration.  By default, it wants the root user and password.  I have added a root password, restarted cups etc... still can not get cups to access admin functions.
[05:23] <occy> who would I talk to about what gets included as far as the firmware for the ipw2200 wireless network card into Breezy?
[05:23] <pitti> linuxsbartley: please try "sudo adduser cupsys shadow"
[05:23] <dholbach> whats up with the bug announce bot?
[05:23] <dholbach> who turned it off?
[05:23] <pitti> linuxsbartley: that makes cupsys able to read /etc/shadow and thus it can verify your password
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: it's in /usr/share/doc/cupsys/README.Debian
[05:24] <linuxsbartley> pitti, ok.  is there any security risk with that?
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: not an actual one, we just disabled it by default for proactive security
[05:24] <linuxsbartley> ok. cool. thx.
[05:24] <pitti> linuxsbartley: since on the desktop cupsys doesn't need it (privilege minimization)
[05:25] <occy> is this a support channel?
[05:25] <occy> heh
[05:25] <pitti> occy: no, #ubuntu is
[05:25] <occy> yeah, that's what I thought.
[05:25] <occy> just wondering if linuxsbartley's question is OT.  (no offense intended linuxsbartley)
[05:25] <pitti> of course we can't help ourselves and occasionally answer supportish questions here
[05:25] <linuxsbartley> sorry for the support type question.  #ubuntu did not have the details.
[05:26] <linuxsbartley> the why behind the how.
[05:26] <linuxsbartley> pitti, thx again.
[05:26] <pitti> linuxsbartley: you're welcome
[05:27] <occy> so, anyone know who to contact regarding firmware that gets shipped with a stable release?
[05:27] <occy> *crickets chirping*
[05:33] <dholbach> WOW, what happened to the gnome-screensaver preferences?
[05:34] <torkel> dholbach: you got all the xscreensaver hacks?
[05:35] <dholbach> seems so
[05:35] <occy> any of you guys developers?
[05:35] <sabdfl> ogra: whats with /apps/gnome-screensaver/themes
[05:35] <sabdfl> ?
[05:35] <\sh> occy: no ;)
[05:35] <occy> heh
[05:36] <occy> \sh, did you see my question?  re: firmware ?
[05:36] <occy> need to ascertain who maintains the ipw2200 firmware that is distro'ed with Ubuntu.
[05:36] <sabdfl> occy: BenC is kernel maintainer
[05:36] <\sh> occy: benc or fabbione
[05:37] <dholbach> occy: do you look for this: /lib/modules/2.6.12-8-686/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/ipw2200/ipw2200.ko ?
[05:37] <occy> My main thing is that the default drivers shipped with Hoary for my card are ancient.
[05:37] <sabdfl> occy: could you test breezy, please?
[05:37] <occy> and I want to see if they'll include the update for breezy *heh*
[05:37] <occy> sabdfl, hmm, good point
[05:38] <sabdfl> i'm running breezy, how do i tell version number for you?
[05:38] <occy> well... I think it only pulls up if you have that type of card.
[05:38] <occy> ie,  dmesg |grep ipw2200
[05:38] <occy> heh
[05:38] <Keybuk> apt-cache policy "package"
[05:38] <ogra> sabdfl, it holds the list of enabled screensavers ;) it wasnt there last tim i looked at the code :)
[05:38] <sabdfl> [4295068.858000]  ipw2100: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2100 Network Driver, 1.1.2
[05:38] <Keybuk> gah,ww
[05:38] <occy> sabdfl, ahh you have the "same" card.
[05:39] <occy> (I think the 2100 is the brethren of the 2200)
[05:39] <sabdfl> occy: different driver
[05:39] <sabdfl> someone with a t42 will have to help you ;-)
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, well... 0.19 is what Hoary has.
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, hehe
[05:39] <Diziet> elmo etc.: Yes, I'm fixing the tla ftbfs.  Should have it done this afternoon.
[05:39] <occy> np
[05:39] <sabdfl> occy: sec
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, any way we can find out what version breezy has via a file some place?
[05:39] <Diziet> Are we really messing about with ideas like `drop it and switch to baz' now ?
[05:39] <occy> sabdfl, yessir
[05:40] <Diziet> Oh, and do we have any other code by the same author ?  It needs a review looking for misuse of 0 and the end of a varargs list.
[05:40] <Diziet> s/and the/at the
[05:40] <dholbach> Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:07:02 +0200: - Update ipw2200 to 1.0.6.
[05:41] <sabdfl> dholbach: even that's pretty old, isn't it?
[05:41] <sabdfl> BenC: ping
[05:41] <pitti> Diziet: well, bazaar is in Ubuntu main since hoary, so it's not really a "switch"
[05:41] <dholbach> sabdfl: to be honest, i have no idea - that's just what i found out in /usr/share/doc/linux-image-2.6.12-8-686/changelog.Debian.gz
[05:41] <occy> dholbach, wow
[05:42] <occy> dholbach, that's in breezy?
[05:42] <dholbach> occy: yep
[05:42] <pitti> Diziet: the question is just whether we should support a package for 18 months that has a good replacement and is orphaned upstream
[05:42] <occy> dholbach, kick ass
[05:42] <occy> oops, sorry for cursing
[05:42] <dholbach> :-D
[05:43] <sabdfl> occy: (16:42:52) cvd: sabdfl: [4319191.367000]  ipw2200: Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 2200/2915 Network Driver, 1.0.4
[05:43] <occy> hmm
[05:43] <occy> that's cool... that's what I have now via some howto.
[05:44] <dholbach> occy: you should try the livecd - that should give you the info most easily
[05:44] <Diziet> pitti: Is that the question ?  The answer to that is probably `no'.  But also, the answer to `should we remove stuff from main at this stage' is probably `no' too.
[05:44] <occy> dholbach, that's a good idea too...
[05:44] <Keybuk> I suspect the fact we ship tla in main is an accident
[05:44] <occy> Well, thank you guys.  I do appreciate your time.  I don't want to clog up the channel with my stuff :)
[05:44] <sabdfl> that's pretty old
[05:44] <sabdfl> Diziet: we put stuff in main that we want to support for 18 months
[05:45] <occy> I just wanted to make sure someone was working on updating the drivers.
[05:45] <sabdfl> do you think tla should qualify?
[05:45] <occy> as usual, Ubuntu is on top of things.
[05:45] <occy> :)
[05:45] <sabdfl> occy: 1.0.4 is not the latest
[05:45] <pitti> Diziet: I don't see a problem with it, we are even putting stuff into main still; but it was just a suggestion to direct our working power into sensible fields
[05:45] <occy> sabdfl, well, it's better than 0.19
[05:45] <sabdfl> but i believe there was a problem with 1.06, so we've rolled back
[05:45] <Diziet> Oh, right.  This code is rather bad.  How's baz ?
[05:45] <occy> sabdfl, yah, that's what I've read.
[05:45] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz is much better. but even that is EOL'd
[05:46] <sabdfl> i think we should have baz in main, tla in universe for breezy
[05:46] <Diziet> I see.  Um, we should support something along these lines.  Can baz publish tla format changes ?  (Sorry, I'm a bit behind on this kind of stuff.)
[05:46] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz can read them
[05:46] <pitti> Diziet: yes, it can
[05:46] <sabdfl> ok
[05:46] <pitti> Diziet: you can even create tla archives with it
[05:46] <pitti> (and commit to them, of course)
[05:46] <Diziet> If it can write them then baz is just a replacement for tla with less bad code, which sounds good to me.
[05:47] <Diziet> I'll finish off this ftbfs though.
[05:47] <lifeless> why ?
[05:47] <pitti> Diziet: the UI is different (better mostly), but it is archive-compativle
[05:47] <Diziet> Well, I'm 80% through it.
[05:48] <lifeless> there is a patch on the list
[05:49] <lifeless> its just a nonsense size promotion bug
[05:49] <lifeless> tom kept doing that again and again
[05:49] <lifeless> 0 != (void *)0
[05:49] <Diziet> No, it's not just size promotion.  He's also got   struct { foo*; }  which he varargs for but he passes just  `0'.
[05:50] <lifeless> yes
[05:52] <Keybuk> hmm, are we going to keep support for baz for 18 months?
[05:52] <sabdfl> Keybuk: we more or less have to
[05:52] <Diziet> What do we have to replace it with ?
[05:53] <sabdfl> it won't be in dapper/main, but bzr is NRY
[05:56] <jsgotangco> hey guys, i just came home after speaking about ubuntu and edubuntu in linuxworld philippines. Guess what, I actually WON an RHCE training and exam pack..hehehehe
[05:57] <Diziet> Is bzr going to read and write tla format archives ?
[05:57] <sabdfl> jsgotangco: nice going
[05:57] <Lathiat> see, you speak about ubuntu, and they try to convert you!
[05:57] <Lathiat> ;)
[05:57] <sabdfl> Diziet: no
[05:57] <sabdfl> there will be a conversion tool
[05:58] <jsgotangco> sabdfl: yeah, people are really hyped about edubuntu anyways (the goverment people actually came)..it was our first linuxworld even in the country
[06:00] <Diziet> sabdfl: Hmm.  I think that means we're going to have to support either tla or baz (so, baz) for quite a while.
[06:00] <sabdfl> Diziet: baz it is then
[06:01] <sabdfl> Keybuk: could you get the seeds right for tla -> universe, baz -> main, and bzr -> main for breezy, please?
[06:01] <Diziet> I'll take tla out of the seeds for breezy.
[06:01] <sabdfl> cool, thanks
[06:02] <elmo> sabdfl: baz is already in main
[06:02] <elmo> bzr would need a main inclusion report
[06:02] <sabdfl> elmo: cool, thakns
[06:02] <elmo> Diziet: be sure to kill it in edubuntu and kubuntu too
[06:03] <sabdfl> lifeless: we need to coordinate the latest-best bzr into breezy, please
[06:03] <elmo> sabdfl: cvd is making "WTF isn't he packing" noises ;-)
[06:03] <lifeless> sabdfl: next week ok? about to release 0.0.8
[06:04] <lifeless> sabdfl: so wednesdayish would be good
[06:04] <jdub> bzr in main sounds a bit wonky
[06:04] <sabdfl> elmo: cvd is so NEW around here
[06:04] <sabdfl> lifeless: sounds fine
[06:05] <sabdfl> jdub: yeah, i could live without it
[06:05] <sabdfl> but perhaps its something we would be happy to push new versions into updates for
[06:05] <sabdfl> we know its moving very fast at the moment
[06:05] <sabdfl> and we know we would like it to be widespread
[06:06] <Keybuk> elmo just broke down in tears
[06:06] <jdub> lifeless: is bzr in the bazaar.canonical.com repo? might be better to point breezy users there while it's in RADICAL DEVELOPMENT phase :)
[06:06] <sabdfl> so getting it in, then making newer versions available through updates (it has minimal dependencies) would work
[06:06] <lifeless> it won't be stable till month or two after brezzy goes out
[06:06] <lifeless> jdub: not yet, may do so once things get a bit more formalish
[06:06] <lifeless> jdub: jbailey has that for you
[06:07] <jdub> jbailey has all the new hotness
[06:09] <jbailey> jdub: I don't have the sources.list bit to put in handy.
[06:09] <jbailey> But you want bzr and bzrtools from it. =)
[06:09] <jdub> heh
[06:09] <jdub> 'sok
[06:09] <jdub> might be a little while before i start using it in anger
[06:10] <jbailey> jdub: deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr ./
[06:11] <jbailey> jdub: What were you pinging about with the evms root?
[06:12] <jbailey> jdub: If you'r doing that, you need my new initramfs love in my people directory.
[06:12] <jdub> ah, bummer.
[06:12] <jdub> i reverted to md after evms was giving me hassles (over and above lack of current initramfs support)
[06:12] <jbailey> Yeah, so far evms doesn't much love me either.
[06:13] <jdub> evmsn was segfaulting and stuff too
[06:13] <jbailey> But I can boot with /dev/evms/lvm2/Ubuntu/root as my root now. =)
[06:13] <jdub> elite
[06:14] <jdub> i'm going to muck around with it on another machine though, something less... mission critical (ie. does not host pipka's mail)
[06:14] <Lathiat> is this the kind of thing we want to be installed by default? ;)
[06:14] <jdub> well, it's not used by default
[06:15] <jdub> and we've only just scored autosetup of lvm (sans evms)
[06:16] <sabdfl> mdz: ping
[06:17] <jdub> (though i wouldn't be too excited about putting evms on a "WOW FEATURES!" list any time soon)
[06:17] <Keybuk> but it's soooo shiiiny
[06:18] <sabdfl> who knows about the post-update notes?
[06:18] <sabdfl> jbailey: ?
[06:18] <sabdfl> can we make it detect dups and not show them?
[06:18] <ogra> sabdfl, mvo ?
[06:18] <sabdfl> mvo: ^?
[06:18] <mvo> sabdfl: here
[06:19] <mvo> sabdfl: dups like two identical kernel notifications?
[06:19] <elmo> can we make it not show the language pack stuff too
[06:19] <sabdfl> mvo: thats the badger
[06:19] <mvo> elmo: what's wrong with the language pack notification?
[06:19] <Diziet> Hmm.  Are we going to pull tla-tools ?  It turns out that tla is in main because of tla-tools.
[06:20] <elmo> mvo: I think it's horribly confusing and meaningless to the average user
[06:20] <elmo> Diziet: yes
[06:20] <Diziet> I assume; I haven't checked the germinate output.
[06:20] <elmo> Diziet: we should drop tla-doc too
[06:20] <Diziet> tla-tools look like they'd be useful with baz too, or am I mistaken ?
[06:20] <mvo> sabdfl: can you please mail me the content of you /var/lib/update-notifier/user.d/?
[06:20] <Diziet> tla-doc> Quite so.
[06:20] <sabdfl> mvo: notification-2.6.12-8-386  notification-2.6.12-8-686
[06:21] <sabdfl> 3/686
[06:21] <mvo> elmo: update-notifier is just the message here, but I think the message should be reworded to "run language-selector" (it will detect the needed actions
[06:21] <mvo> sabdfl: thanks, I'll work on it
[06:22] <mvo> elmo: arg, that should read "is just the messenger..."
[06:22] <elmo> mvo: yeah, sorry, I wasn't having a go at you, just the message :)
[06:23] <bddebian> w00t, at least I finally got pgtcl to run configure. Sheesh
[06:23] <mvo> elmo: sure :) I'll bug pitti about it when I see him next time
[06:25] <jbailey> sabdfl: post-update?
[06:26] <mvo> jbailey: I take care of it, no worries
[06:26] <jbailey> Thanks.
[06:37] <Diziet> baz--
[06:45] <lifeless> Diziet: lock-revision <give it a 'version'>
[06:45] <lifeless> Diziet: it still accepts revisions, but it has a DWIM mode
[06:48] <sabdfl> cheers all. a week's holiday. omg, i don't know if i'll be able to stop lunchpadding
[06:48] <sabdfl> ADDICT
[06:49] <ogra> sabdfl, enjoy the weekend (especially sunday)
[06:49] <dholbach> sabdfl: have a nice weekend :)
[06:49] <sabdfl> thanks guys
[06:50] <Diziet> lifeless: No, the problem is that if my commit bombs out halfway through (eg, because my signature program broke), it leaves the lock in the repo.  Barmy !
[06:50] <Diziet> Kamion told me to use lock-revision -b to break the lock again, which `fixes' it.
[06:50] <lifeless> Diziet: for the ancestry file yes, unloikely to fix that one.
[06:54] <dilinger> ah, memories of tla/baz
[06:59] <mdz> morning
[06:59] <elmo> ogra: why did you add Conflicts?
[06:59] <bddebian> Hello mdz
[07:00] <ogra> elmo, isnt that common ?
[07:00] <mdz> jdub: yes, my evms machine is breezy
[07:01] <elmo> ogra: it's unneeded and causes dpkg to do the Wrong Thing
[07:01] <jdub> mdz: have you used evmsn much, or is it all set up and rolling ok? (i assume with jbailey's evms-enabled initramfs stuff)
[07:02] <mdz> jdub: I use it sometimes, more often evmsgui
[07:02] <mdz> jdub: no, I don't use evms root here
[07:02] <jdub> aha
[07:09] <ogra> elmo, i'll fix it in the next upload, i dont think it does any harm currently..
[07:10] <bob2> wtf
[07:11] <bob2> the upstream mozilla crash agent thing uses motif
[07:11] <ogra> mvo, dont you think 14944 is an X issue ?
[07:13] <mvo> ogra: I don't think so
[07:13] <ogra> if the screen is locked, nothing should leak through...
[07:14] <ogra> you cant patch all the notification apps..
[07:14] <mvo> it should be enough to patch notification-daemon
[07:15] <ogra> what about zenity notifications for example...
[07:15] <mvo> i "just" need to know when the screensaver is active
[07:15] <mvo> how does zenity do it's notifications?
[07:16] <ogra> zenity --notification --text "blah"
[07:16] <ogra> try it
[07:16] <ogra> hmm, it doest show bubbles...
[07:16] <ogra> doesnt
[07:17] <ogra> mvo, forget it :)
[07:17] <bob2> it doesn't seem to do anything but add a tray icon
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: what is the purpose of xscreensaver-data?
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, it holds the hacks
[07:17] <mvo> ogra: :)
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, we can drop xscreensaver
[07:17] <mdz> ogra: then it's not data, but programs?
[07:17] <ogra> mdz, yes
[07:17] <mdz> ...
[07:26] <mdz> Diziet: I filed a bug about that ages ago
[07:31] <Diziet> mdz: The baz lockfile problem ?  Yes, I assumed it was known.
[07:31] <Diziet> But while you're here:@
[07:31] <Diziet> s/\@//
[07:32] <Diziet> This kernel-package dependency bug you passed on to me, 15488.
[07:32] <Diziet> Which kernels do not compile with our current default gcc-4 ?
[07:32] <ogra> Diziet, all ?
[07:32] <Diziet> The bug report suggests that just adding a dependency will DTRT but the actual kernel sources don't seem to go out of their way to select a different compiler.
[07:33] <Diziet> ogra: I was worried it might be something along those lines :-).
[07:33] <ogra> Diziet, the kernel is gcc3.4 afaik
[07:33] <\sh> *yawn* that was good
[07:34] <mdz> Diziet: the kernel sources ought to have gcc-3.4 in the makefile
[07:34] <mdz> Diziet: the headers do
[07:35] <\sh> mdz: g'evening :) I hope u had a good sleep :)
[07:35] <Diziet> Not all kernels have gcc-3.4 in the makefile, just recent ones, AIUI.
[07:35] <mdz> Diziet: it's OK with me that since there will be no kernel in breezy which builds correctly with the default gcc, that  kernel-package in breezy assume that any -source package it builds will need gcc-3.4
[07:36] <mdz> Diziet: well, in Hoary, the kernel built with the default gcc
[07:36] <mdz> but breezy kernels have used a non-default compiler ever since 4.0 became default, early in the cycle
[07:36] <mdz> \sh: not bad
[07:36] <mdz> I would have liked to have slept longer
[07:36] <Diziet> Right, yes, obviously it should depend on whatever it wants to build with.  But AFAICT the machinery for making it use the right compiler isn't perfect.
[07:37] <\sh> mdz: I know this feeling :)
[07:38] <mdz> Diziet: if there are bugs there, we should fix them.  is there something specific it isn't doing yet?
[07:38] <\sh> mdz: did u read the backlog about amarok 1.3.x and sabdfls wish to include it, cause community wants it?
[07:39] <Diziet> Well, what I did was: downloaded our current kernel-package .dsc and unpacked and built it.  Installed the resulting .deb.  Unpacked a stock linux <IP_ADDRESS>, cd'd into it.  Said  make-kpkg kernel-image.   It's using `gcc'.
[07:39] <Diziet> So either (a) <IP_ADDRESS> is OK with 4.0 (which I thought wasn't the case) or (b) at the very least make-kpkg should pick the right compiler.
[07:40] <mdz> Diziet: (b)
[07:40] <Diziet> Right.  So it's not just a dependency problem.  NP, I can fix it.  I just wanted to check that I wasn't confused, because the bug report suggested just changing the deps would help.
[07:40] <Diziet> As an aside, how do our own kernel-image packages get built ?
[07:41] <Diziet> Do we have some weird systems with gcc symlinked to gcc-3.4 or something ?
[07:42] <Diziet> I'll go ask in #ubuntu-kernel.
[07:49] <mdz> Diziet: well, the bug report was about what happened when someone installed linux-headers, linux-source, etc. and then tried to use them
[07:50] <mdz> Diziet: they can't be used without gcc-3.4
[07:50] <Diziet> Right.  But even if you have gcc-3.4 installed you have to know to give the build special flags.  That's probably OK for the source package, which you're supposed to use if you know what you're going.
[07:50] <doko> Diziet: no weired symlinks
[07:51] <Diziet> But it's no good for the make-kpkg kernel-image, which is supposed to be at least mostly automatic.
[07:51] <Diziet> So it's done in our diff ?  We patch the toplevel Makefile to select the right compiler ?
[07:52] <mdz> Diziet: you shouldn't need to specify anything special, at least with linux-headers.  it has HOSTCC=gcc-3.4
[07:52] <mdz> I don't know how it works
[07:52] <mdz> it wasn't the case in the past and I was going to file a bug about it when I noticed it had already been changed
[07:53] <Diziet> Right, if you get the linux-source package from archive.ubuntu, and untar it and cd into it, it will DTRT.
[07:53] <Diziet> But if you get a stock kernel from kernel.org and untar it and make-kpkg it will DTWT.
[07:53] <mdz> good
[07:53] <mdz> apparently
[07:53] <mdz> but that's a separate issue
[07:53] <Diziet> Well, yes, but if I'm editing kernel-package I could fix both.
[07:53] <mdz> if it's straightforward
[07:54] <Diziet> Looks it.  I can see the bit where it picks `gcc'.
[07:54] <Diziet> I want to do people this favour because miscompiled kernels are a bad rathole for novices.
[07:56] <mdz> sure, just don't let it block the other fix
[07:56] <\sh> mdz: so the question is, if we're allowed to break the freeze to bring amarok-1.3.1 into breezy
[07:56] <mdz> \sh: we already had this conversation on ubuntu-devel...has something changed?
[07:56] <mdz> is it still a beta or is it a final release?
[07:56] <\sh> mdz: final
[07:57] <ogra> mdz, i dont think -data is the wrong name, even if its binary data, it gets installed in /usr/lib/xscreensaver and gets executed by the screensaver app
[07:57] <mdz> \sh: does anything depend on it?  does it have the potential to break anything other than amarok?
[07:57] <\sh> mdz: no..no new deps
[07:57] <\sh> mdz: nothing which depends on amarok
[07:58] <mdz> \sh: ok, let's do it
[07:58] <mdz> plenty of time to back it out if necessary
[07:58] <\sh> mdz: thx...
[07:59] <jbailey> lamont: Shouldn't uname -m under linux32 return 'parisc' for you?
[07:59] <jbailey> lamont: I thought that it always returned the 32bit variant (Isn't that the point?)
[08:01] <cepear> hi ppl
[08:01] <dholbach> hey cepear
[08:01] <cepear> somebody tried breezy/amd64 with nvidia?
[08:02] <cepear> I own a 5200 fx and I can't make it work with latests kernels
[08:03] <cepear> well, the nvidia module loads, which doesn't starts up is X
[08:26] <mdz> ogra: so we are ready for gnome-screensaver now?
[08:27] <ogra> mdz, yup
[08:27] <sivang> hey all, is there anybody to sponser me on a gnome-panel fix? (make lpi integration consistent with mpt's  spces..
[08:27] <sivang> bah, this irssi + gnome-terminal is annonying
[08:28] <ogra> mdz, sabdfl still wanted to have some changes to the lock window, mtp is preparing tham, but we should change the seeds asap i think
[08:28] <ogra> s/tham/them
[08:28] <bob2> xterm it u
[08:28] <mdz> ogra: can gnome-screensaver conflict with xscreensaver now?
[08:28] <mdz> otherwise upgrades will get both
[08:28] <ogra> mdz, it only needs xscreensaver-data, i can make it conflict
[08:29] <mdz> sivang: perhaps \sh can help
[08:30] <\sh> sivang: what?
[08:30] <sivang> mdz: thx
[08:31] <\sh> sivang: whats your problem?
[08:32] <mdz> \sh: he's looking for someone to sponsor an upload to main, see above
[08:32] <\sh> mdz: if it's ok with you and seb128 sure
[08:32] <sivang> \sh: yep :-) I need to do a small fix for gnome-panel which was already discussed with seb128 and mpt, I Want to know if you could sponser my upload
[08:32] <mdz> I haven't seen the code
[08:33] <sivang> mdz: that's just dropping the context menu patching from the applets, and leave it for the panel alone
[08:42] <sivang> mpt: around?
[08:48] <whiprush> Sweet! Bouncing cow in gnome-screensaver!
[08:49] <ogra> yes, we still need to disable a lot
[08:51] <torkel> ogra: #316462 is the bug I filed in b.gnome.org re disabling themes in gnome-screensaver (in case you are intrested)
[08:51] <ogra> torkel, i already found the gconf key, but thanks )
[08:51] <ogra> :)
[08:52] <torkel> ogra: :-)
[08:54] <torkel> ogra: you "only" have to hack the preferences to change the key then? :-)
[08:54] <ogra> we'll just provide a default setting for the key in the package ;)
[08:56] <jdub> mdz: whoa, we're shipping gnome-screensaver?
[09:02] <mdz> jdub: seb128, ogra and sabdfl are all behind it
[09:03] <jdub> ... so who swapped the release management juice for the SHINY juice? :-)
[09:05] <Surak> Hello, I'm having an odd issue with debian-installer.
[09:06] <Riddell> kdebluetooth is on the kubuntu CD but it doesn't get installed, why could that be?
[09:07] <Surak> In live cd's boot, if i type live debian-installer/locale=pt_BR , it will not work. But if I set the locale to es, it works. This live cd already have the pt langpack...
[09:08] <mdz> jdub: guess
[09:08] <jdub> haha
[09:11] <Surak> What can be wrong?
[09:13] <Surak> Are the language-pack-pt and language-pack-pt-base enough for d-i? Or there are different stuff for this?
[09:13] <bob2> bold fonts in xterm look fucked
[09:14] <Riddell> Surak: live CD ubuntu breezy doesn't ship -pt language packs on i386 according to the seeds
[09:15] <Surak> Yes Riddell. This is a custom cd, with both packages installed.
[09:15] <\sh> bob2: gnarf..that's why daniels didn't want to deal with it anymore..now my ass is fcked
[09:16] <Riddell> Surak: then you also need the language-pack-gnome-pt and language-pack-gnome-base-pt
[09:17] <Surak> but my problem is before gnome. What happens is nothing when I type that d-i command at boot time.
[09:17] <Surak> d-i seems to ignore it when I type it with pt_BR. It will ask me language and keyboard. If I set for instance to "es" locale, it will ask me nothing.
[09:18] <seb128> \sh, sivang: what?
[09:18] <Surak> Riddel: and both packages are installed.
[09:18] <\sh> seb128: sivang whats to have a sponsor for his gnome-panel lpi patch
[09:19] <\sh> seb128: when u r available, you can deal with him :)
[09:19] <seb128> \sh: has somebody reviewed the patch?
[09:19] <seb128> \sh: nobody pinged me :p
[09:20] <sivang> seb128: I wasn't aware you are still here, I will post a debdiff in a sec.
[09:21] <bob2> NM doesn't do wpa?
[09:21] <whiprush> nope
[09:21] <bob2> suck
[09:22] <\sh> seb128: mdz mentioned it...but I never seen a piece of code
[09:22] <dholbach> wifi-radar recommends wpasupplicant though
[09:23] <\sh> why the hell...gdm is depending on xterm?
[09:23] <dholbach> \sh: because you can have a term-session-login-only-thing-too
[09:27] <\sh> dholbach: i see...*grmpf*
[09:28] <ogra> mdz, #3044 would introduce two additional packages (sabdfl wanted xscreensaver-extras) do we really want that ?
[09:29] <doko> elmo, fabbione: please could I have 2Gig disk space on concordia?
[09:29] <ogra> mdz, its possible to make a preselectin in a gconf key for gnome-screensaver, the only issue is diskspace
[09:29] <fabbione> doko: checking right now
[09:30] <\sh> dholbach: funny thing that xterms behaviour is completly different in gnome then running e.g. fluxbox...
[09:30] <fabbione> doko: keep an eye on a rm -rf process with my user..
[09:30] <\sh> have to investigate
[09:30] <ogra> mdz, since we separate gl and non gl we'd have: xscreensaver-data (non-gl), xscreensaver-gl, xscreensaver-extras, xscreensaver-extras-gl
[09:30] <fabbione> doko: when it's done there will be 3.5G free
[09:30] <seb128> \sh: due to xrdb?
[09:30] <fabbione> but it's all ccache.. do it will take some time
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: du u think xterm +ls is xrdb?
[09:31] <doko> fabbione: thanks
[09:31] <mdz> ogra: note that I removed the 5.10 milestone from that bug
[09:31] <ogra> mdz, oh, ok
[09:31] <fabbione> doko: np
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: or export PROMPT_COMMAND= ; xterm +ls == set title to whatever but not xterm?
[09:31] <\sh> seb128: which should be the default
[09:32] <\sh> seb128: but I will check this just now with fluxbox ;)
[09:32] <\sh> or kde
[09:32] <seb128> \sh: no, xrdb just change the style: color, etc
[09:32] <\sh> seb128: no...xrdb can tell xterm to behave as loginshell or not..but cli switches should have higher prio
[09:33] <mdz> Diziet: who said that tla is being demoted to universe?
[09:33] <\sh> seb128: but it's not working just like it should
[09:40] <lamont> jbailey: dunno... just reporting what it does...
[09:43] <mdz> l-r-m is larger than the kernel itself
[09:43] <mdz> that is so evil
[09:44] <sivang> wow
[09:45] <seb128> mdke: what bar?
[09:46] <seb128> mdke: ctrl-L ?
[09:46] <occy> is there a reason why dma = on isn't set for /dev/cdrom by default when Ubuntu ships?
[09:53] <mdke> seb128, yeah, that one
[09:53] <mdke> seb128, what happened to it?
[09:54] <mdke> occy, yes, there is an enormous bug about it in bugzilla, check it out
[09:54] <seb128> mdke: still working here
[09:54] <mdke> seb128, it works now I pressed ctrl L :) Not before that though
[09:56] <seb128> mdke: you have a bar of button like the fileselector one
[09:56] <mdke> yeah
[09:56] <mdke> and until you told me ctrl L, I couldn't figure out from the menus how to get my address bar back
[10:01] <ogra> jbailey, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/edu_usplash.png
[10:02] <jbailey> ogra: Show off. =)
[10:02] <ogra> :)
[10:03] <mdke> not to rant or anything, but does it bother anyone else that this ctrl L nautilus behaviour is not available from the menu?
[10:04] <ogra> which menu ?
[10:04] <mdke> any menu
[10:04] <mdke> but I would have thought it would be trivial to have it accessible from the View menu
[10:04] <ogra> mdke, its in the "go" menu
[10:05] <\sh> gnarf
[10:05] <ogra> L = Location
[10:05] <mdke> oh how irritating
[10:05] <mdke> thanks anyway
[10:06] <mdke> the "Location bar" entry in the View menu is quite confusing then
[10:07] <ogra> hmm, it should probably be called "path bar" but the place is right
[10:10] <mdke> ogra, so am I right to say that I can't turn on my address bar permanently? I have to press ctrl L every time?
[10:10] <ogra> yup
[10:10] <mdke> man that sucks
[10:12] <jay>  /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_location_entry
[10:12] <jay> If set to true, then Nautilus browser windows will always use a textual input entry for the location toolbar, instead of the pathbar.
[10:12] <mdke> jay, it's not in the preferences menu?
[10:13] <jay> mdke: doesn't look like it.  you know GNOMEites and their preferences ;)
[10:13] <mdke> man that sucks
[10:13] <mdke> users aren't supposed to play around in gconf-editor
[10:14] <jay> what user is going to want to ctrl-l and type in their location? ;)
[10:14] <jay> it's not GNOME's target
[10:15] <jay> audience.  but it's in gconf for advanced people to change
[10:16] <mdke> it's a browser
[10:16] <mdke> firefox has an address bar
[10:16] <ogra> its a file manager ;)
[10:16] <mdke> in browser mode?
[10:16] <ogra> its still a file manager
[10:17] <mdke> anyhow, it's all a matter of opinion
[10:17] <cavediver> Sorry to disturb. But where do I report bugs? It seems gnome-terminal bluescreens with screen from time to time. And no - that's not a joke :P
[10:17] <mdke> all I would have liked is the option to turn it on in the preferences
[10:17] <mdke> cavediver, see the topic, bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[10:17] <Lathiat> cavediver: heh, let me guess, irssi & screen right?
[10:17] <cavediver> l
[10:17] <cavediver> Lathiat: yes
[10:17] <\sh> bob2: can u do me a favour?
[10:17] <cavediver> mdke: ohh sorry. Will file it there then.
[10:17] <Lathiat> cavediver: long standing bug in vte, theres a bug open somewhere at http://bugzilla.gnome.org
[10:18] <cavediver> Ok, so no bug-filing for me then :)
[10:18] <Lathiat> cavediver: hitting ^L will refresh.. but it'l only go back, i just ahve to restart the terminal :\ not much to do, it sucks.
[10:18] <jay> only happens when you use tabs iirc
[10:19] <Lathiat> jay: nah
[10:19] <Lathiat> jay: it just happens more often when you use tabs
[10:19] <jay> oh lol
[10:19] <Lathiat> also if you change font/theme/something it gtriggers it
[10:19] <cavediver> I use no tabs.
[10:19] <Lathiat> cavediver: so yeh, dont change fonts, themes, or anything, dont use tabs (only on the window you use irssi with) and uh, pray to the gods
[10:19] <jay> lol
[10:19] <cavediver> Lathiat: well.. maybe in 2.14 it will be fixed :)
[10:20] <jay> you could use another terminal like aterm or xterm
[10:20] <cavediver> I like gnome-terminal in fact, even though it is a total memory eating application
[10:20] <cavediver> Although it uses much less resources in 2.12
[10:20] <Lathiat> anyway this is a little offtopic now
[10:20] <\sh> we are in serious trouble  ;)
[10:21] <Lathiat> \sh: ?
[10:21] <cavediver> Yeah sorry. Thanks for your answer anyway.
[10:21] <cavediver> bye
[10:21] <stockholm> elmo: ping
[10:21] <\sh> ok...I just checked some xterm/rxvt/aterm (will be checked now)
[10:21] <Lathiat> checking them for what?
[10:21] <\sh> any of these terminals are honoring the `-T "Title"` cli switch
[10:22] <\sh> anymore...cause something is causing it to override
[10:22] <ogra> whhe, \sh thats really release critical
[10:22] <\sh> with $PROMPT_COMMAND
[10:22] <\sh> ogra: it's not the default...and shouldn't happen.
[10:22] <\sh> and I don't know what the cause is...export PROMPT_COMMAND="" doesn't help
[10:23] <ogra> but serious trouble is something else :)
[10:23] <\sh> and actually it will override as well the `-n "icon title"`
[10:23] <\sh> ogra: well I have to fix those bugs and I don't really know where to search
[10:23] <Lathiat> \sh: bash will be updating it
[10:23] <Lathiat> \sh: note that it will change as you change directory etc
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: but only via PROMPT_COMMAND
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: and PROMPT_COMMAND is disabled, actually empty
[10:24] <Lathiat> \sh: sure, but since its in /etc/bashrc, it still has it when you launch the xterm
[10:24] <Lathiat>  /etc/bash.bashrc
[10:24] <\sh> Lathiat: running xterm from cli and exporting prompt_command before that has higher prio then /etc/bashrc
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: uh... why?
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: when you run bash inside the xterm it will read /etc/bashrc
[10:25] <\sh> Lathiat: /etc/bash* are only defaults when ~/.bashrc is not there
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: which will overwrite the environment it inherited from the parent terminal
[10:25] <Lathiat> \sh: its in .bashrc too, i assume from /etc/skel
[10:25] <\sh> Lathiat: xterm +ls == no login shell
[10:26] <\sh> .bashrc / /etc/bashrc should be read when it's loginshell right?
[10:26] <\sh> Lathiat: in the early days this was the default
[10:27] <Lathiat> \sh: it should read both afaik (tho its /etc/bash.bashrc), unless it is a login shell (not not a login shell)
[10:28] <\sh> Lathiat: but it shouldn't read it when I start it with +ls , which means, accordingly to man xterm, no login shell
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: a login shell means its a "new login" shell, e.g. when you open from minicom
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: and that woudl be -ls, +ls means not to
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: iirc login shells read /etc/bash_profile, .bash_profile
[10:29] <\sh> Lathiat: yes...and "no login shell" should not read them, right?
[10:29] <Lathiat>  /etc/profile rather
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: /etc/profile sources /etc/bash.bashrc
[10:29] <Lathiat> \sh: so no, it shouldn't, but yes, because its done explicitly
[10:30] <Lathiat> yes, in our case
[10:30] <\sh> no wonder
[10:31] <\sh> bangshishead
[10:32] <Lathiat> :)
[10:32] <\sh> this is a complete wrong behaviour
[10:32] <Lathiat> \sh: whats wrong?
[10:33] <\sh> how can I fix this without annoying some people
[10:33] <Lathiat> \sh: fix "what" exacly
[10:34] <Lathiat> \sh: the fact you cant set the title ?
[10:34] <\sh> Lathiat: it shouldn't do that...when the user tells xterm to use -T "his title" it should be "his title" and not our stuff
[10:35] <Lathiat> its a bit tricky
[10:36] <\sh> Lathiat: but more difficult is this: even the "-n" switch is just like this...so -T + -n == wrong (-n == icon name ==> gets the -T title which is $PROMPT_COMMAND)
[10:38] <\sh> and it's the bloody default bash.bashrc
[10:40] <Lathiat> how does that one work
[10:41] <\sh> Lathiat: -n "b0rkness" should show you in the icon bar the icon title "b0rkness"
[10:41] <mpt> sivang: pong
[10:41] <\sh> Lathiat: but setting PROMPT_COMMAND will override this setting as well, the same as with -T
[10:43] <Lathiat> hrm
[10:43] <\sh> Lathiat: I just removed the PROMPT_COMMAND setting in my .bashrc and in the global bash.bashrc
[10:43] <Lathiat> -T works fine then
[10:43] <Lathiat> \sh: where do you get the list of available icon names
[10:45] <\sh> Lathiat: no not icon name it's an icon title...you see in gnome the "icon bar" ...there is left the icon and next to the icon is the title of the window...so -n set this title explicitly
[10:45] <Lathiat> \sh: ohhh, i see
[10:46] <Lathiat> window title vs windowbar title
[10:46] <mvo> does anyone of you have a runing hoary at hand?
[10:46] <Lathiat> mvo: i do
[10:46] <Lathiat> mvo: gui or !gui ?
[10:47] <mvo> Lathiat: does the hoary version of synaptic already has "File/History" ?
[10:47] <Lathiat> hang a sec
[10:50] <siretart> Diziet: around?
[10:54] <\sh> Lathiat: I have a workaround
[10:54] <Lathiat> \sh: which is?
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: case in /etc/profile...asking for xterm*|rxvt*) and then for "if [ $COLORTERM == "gnome-terminal" ] ; then # set PROMPT_COMMAND fi
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: if it's not gnome-terminal then don't do anything...and remove the xterm case from bash.bashrc
[10:55] <\sh> Lathiat: just tested
[10:55] <Lathiat> \sh: well, thats arguable
[10:56] <\sh> Lathiat: it's a better solution for users using xterm as in old times ;)
[10:56] <Lathiat> sure, but it breaks people wanting titles now
[10:56] <Lathiat> (like i said, arguable ;)
[10:57] <Lathiat> mvo: yes
[10:57] <Lathiat> mvo: there is a file->history
[10:57] <mvo> Lathiat: thanks!
[10:57] <\sh> Lathiat: doesn't work :(
[10:58] <Lathiat> \sh: what doesn't?
[10:58] <\sh> Lathiat: moment...ah that's why...
[10:59] <\sh> Lathiat: sorry..it works :)
[11:01] <\sh> Lathiat: there must be a solution to choose
[11:01] <\sh> Lathiat: and the solution is to set it in .bashrc for the user
[11:02] <\sh> and leave the global stuff without the PROMPT_COMMAND
[11:02] <Lathiat> i like that solution
[11:02] <Lathiat> leave it out of /etc/bash.bashrc, leave in /etc/skel
[11:02] <Lathiat> its not a complete solution however
[11:04] <\sh> Lathiat: it's better then to have the global stuff
[11:04] <cogumbreiro> lo all
[11:04] <\sh> doko: ping
[11:07] <doko> \sh: pong
[11:07] <\sh> doko: bash.bashrc and PROMPT_COMMAND will override everytime -T / -n switches from xterm
[11:07] <\sh> doko: can we remove this, and put it only in /etc/skel/.bashrc for the user...
[11:08] <\sh> (where xterm== *term)
[11:08] <doko> \sh: what kind of difference does it make?
[11:08] <ogra> \sh, that does only work for new installs then
[11:09] <\sh> doko: the user can choose if he wants this override or not...
[11:09] <ogra> \sh, existing installs will be missing PROMPT_COMMAND completely
[11:09] <\sh> doko: if he removes the PROMPT_COMMAND in .bashrc, it will always come up with bash.bashrc
[11:09] <ogra> at least for th eexisting users
[11:09] <\sh> ogra: ?? it's right now the default in global and userbased
[11:10] <ogra> oh its in both ?
[11:10] <\sh> ogra: yes
[11:10] <\sh> ogra: and this is what annoyes some people
[11:10] <\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15122 e.g.
[11:10] <doko> I don't mind
[11:10] <doko> it was requested in the past
[11:13] <\sh> doko: it's just that it's a wrong behaviour...users cli switch should have higher prio then global PROMPT_COMMAND...but right now it's not the case
[11:14] <dholbach> good night, mvo
[11:16] <mvo> good night dholbach
[11:24] <\sh> lamont-away / infinity: can u please check what's up with gfcui (upload 2005-09-15) buildd status: not-for-us..but it's in universe, thx
[11:39] <cogumbreiro> might I ask one question regarding Serpentine and its integration with GNOME?
[11:40] <dholbach> fire away
[11:40] <cogumbreiro> regarding this bug: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14137
[11:42] <dholbach> cogumbreiro: could the upstream nautilus-cd-burner guys bring some light into this issue?
[11:43] <cogumbreiro> yeah, I think so, I'm going to mail them then
[11:43] <dholbach> super, thank you
[11:43] <cogumbreiro> dholbach: so, should i wait for a release after their reply?
[11:44] <dholbach> you could try to catch them on irc
[11:45] <cogumbreiro> i will
[11:47] <Lathiat> hrmm, hwdb.ubuntu.com is connection refusing on the webserver
[11:50] <hunger> hehe... just managed to get those two strange keys on my thinkpad to work properly:-)
[11:51] <hunger> Could those "back" and "forward" keys get enabled by default in X?
[11:51] <vrln> are there daily breezy snapshots available?
[11:51] <Mithrandir> vrln: cd images?  Yes, look at cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/
[11:51] <vrln> I'm thinking about installing the preview, but I guess RC1 should be out soonish, so I'm not really sure
[11:51] <Lathiat> vrln: yes, although the preview is probably a better idea
[11:51] <vrln> Mithrandir: exactly - thank you :)
[11:51] <ogra> Lathiat, ?? works fine here
[11:52] <Lathiat> ogra: eh its fixed now
[11:52] <Lathiat> ogra: i noticed cus your buildlogs page was using the show thing
[11:52] <vrln> Lathiat: since ubuntu is in feature freeze, I'd imagine the daily images to be more stable than the preview :)
[11:52] <vrln> that said, the preview livecd works perfectly here
[11:52] <Lathiat> vrln: well they probably work :)
[11:53] <Mithrandir> vrln: both should work quite well. :-)
[11:56] <vrln> Mithrandir: yeah - I'm downloading the daily snapshot right now, thanks again - switching from gentoo :)
[11:56] <\sh> Mithrandir: can u apt-get build-dep partimage? :) thx :)
[11:57] <vrln> now if only e17 would be accepted as a backport, then everything would be perfect (tm) (and sorry for the off-topic talk, I know this is supposed to be a devel channel)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> \sh: you're insane.  (running)
[11:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: it's bug day :)
[11:57] <Mithrandir> \sh: seriously, you're going to waste a few days on it, but feel free, stuff's installed
[11:57] <\sh> Mithrandir: as I said...I have to pay my depts in some beer at ubz
[11:58] <\sh> Mithrandir: thx :)
[11:58] <Mithrandir> \sh: if you fix partimage to work correctly at ubz, I think I owe you beers.
[11:59] <\sh> Mithrandir: hmmm...u can test it?
[11:59] <Mithrandir> \sh: well, if you get it to run first, sure.
[12:00] <Mithrandir> \sh: it's used for our livecd builds to make rsyncable images, iirc.
[12:01] <\sh> Mithrandir: can I run it via fakeroot? ,-)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> \sh: that should work, yes.
[12:01] <\sh> Mithrandir: nice...so I could see the result on ravel


[15:39] <holstein> mhall119: nice article
[15:39] <holstein> http://mhall119.com/2011/11/reports-of-ubuntus-death-are-greatly-exaggerated/
[15:39] <mhall119> thanks holstein
[15:39] <holstein> i think mint has been "ahead" there at distrowatch for a while
[15:40] <holstein> i was thinking it was folks checking in to see if 'lisa' had dropped
[18:30] <orauyz> hi
[19:56] <holstein> orauyz: o/
[20:15] <orauyz> holstein ?
[21:18] <billf> I've switched to kde to see what that is like - purely because I got fed up with Unity after several months of using it
[21:20] <billf> the #trilug channel is talking about the breakdown of community engagement
[21:20] <billf> http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Beat-Bruce-Byfield-s-Blog/A-Disturbing-Dialog-About-Ubuntu-and-Unity
[21:36] <billf> has ubuntu just alienated a large portion of their user base ? and what will it take to regain their trust ?
[21:37] <Nivex> I switched to XFCE because I didn't like Unity.
[21:40] <akgraner> I must be weird then I like Unity
[21:40] <akgraner> I didn't at first though, but now I do
[21:41] <billf> I tried to like Unity for several months, but I kept getting fustrated with it
[21:42] <akgraner> nods, I understand I know a lot of people who feel that same way
[21:42] <billf> I wish the installer had given people the choice of installing the classic desktop as well as unity
[21:43] <Nivex> even with the gnome-session-fallback, it ate all my settings going from 11.04 to 11.10. Started with a fresh panel and background. I was not a happy camper.
[21:44] <akgraner> ouch
[21:45] <billf> I can't really tell my neighbour to download ubuntu and install it, then run the package manager and search for classic and install that, then reconfigure lightdm to use classic by default.
[21:45] <billf> Nivex: I gave up after the upgrade from 11.04 to 11.10 and did a complete wipe and install of 11.10 to fix all that.
[21:46] <Nivex> I gave up and migrated to Xubuntu :)
[21:46] <billf> well, I'm trying kde, and maybe xubuntu will be the next stop
[21:47] <Nivex> I'm glad there was an easy path to do that and not have to punt to a different distro for the moment.
[21:47] <akgraner> I tried Lubuntu just for the fun of it and I like it as well
[21:47] <billf> akgraner: I will have to try that too - thanks !
[21:48] <akgraner> yw :-)
[21:48] <Nivex> I've run LXDE in a couple of test environments, but never for very long. It looks like it's got a lot of promise though. I know they are trying to get Lubuntu made an official spin.
[21:48] <akgraner> I haven't been around much but I am hoping after Christmas we can do some LoCo stuff and kick start some activities, and find some new members
[21:49] <akgraner> I'm going to start an Ubuntu Hour here in good ole Rutherfordton
[23:50] <BugeyeD> i'm sticking with xmonad for now. i can do that with any unix-ish os, so i'm not bothered much by the unity flap.


[11:02] <kelemengabor> AJenbo: could you help me a little? What is the output of `ls -l /usr/share/gnome/help/user-guide/da/` on your Danish Natty system?
[11:03] <kelemengabor> I'm trying to understand why bug 794426 happens
[11:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 794426 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Can't open help because of XML error in user-guide.xml (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/794426
[11:04] <AJenbo> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/645339/
[11:07] <AJenbo> kelemengabor, yeah it's a little puzzeling, the xml seams fine to me
[11:08] <kelemengabor> mine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/645342/
[11:09] <kelemengabor> yeah, but why does it link to ar, bn, ca locales? this makes no sense at all
[11:09] <kelemengabor> which are not even installed
[11:10] <AJenbo> yeah that did make me raise an eye brow to
[11:10] <kelemengabor> http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/danish.png
[11:11] <kelemengabor> it should look like this
[22:37] <CrazyLemon> hey guys
[22:37] <CrazyLemon> please tell me that there is a french speaking person in here


[07:39] <lordievader> Good morning
[13:50] <jamespage> cpaelzer: libvirt+qemu is now into stein-proposed for the UCA
[13:52] <cpaelzer> thank you ++ jamespage
[13:52] <cpaelzer> you get +1 on my "need to spend a beer list"
[14:11] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I'll exchange that beer for help with
[14:11] <jamespage> "configure: error: Could not find DPDK library in default search path, Use --with-dpdk to specify the DPDK library installed in non-standard location"
[14:11] <jamespage> when backporting openvswitch to bionic (complete with meson and dpdk from disco as well)
[14:11] <jamespage> :)
[14:25] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: do I need to do something special to get the *-dbgsym packages from the bileto ppa?
[14:25] <ahasenack> cpaelzer: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3631/+packages I see, for example, samba-dbgsym in there
[14:25] <ahasenack> but apt-cache policy doesn't, it's still trying to fetch the dbgsym packages from the archive (ddebs.ubuntu.com)
[14:28] <ahasenack> rbasak: do you know? ^
[14:34] <ahasenack> anyone?
[14:35] <rbasak> ahasenack: pastebin the policy output please?
[14:35] <rbasak> Oh, hang on.
[14:35] <rbasak> The ddebs go through some special process to get built I think?
[14:36] <rbasak> Do PPAs even build them?
[14:36] <rbasak> Oh yes, they are there.
[14:36] <ahasenack> rbasak: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/2cp8xgTgqK/
[14:38] <rbasak> ahasenack: looks like you'll need to add the debug bit to your sources.list.
[14:38] <ahasenack> and if I download the deb, and install it with dpkg -i, apt-cache policy shows it as installed of course, but from /var/lib/dpkg/status
[14:38] <rbasak> Try http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/3631/ubuntu bionic/main/debug
[14:38] <ahasenack> rbasak: how? The ddeb entries I have look like normal sources.list lines
[14:38] <ahasenack> # cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ddebs.list
[14:38] <ahasenack> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com bionic main restricted universe multiverse
[14:38] <ahasenack> ...
[14:38] <rbasak> Uh
[14:39] <rbasak> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/3631/ubuntu bionic main/debug
[14:39] <rbasak> Maybe
[14:39] <ahasenack> that worked
[14:39] <ahasenack> witchcraft
[14:40] <ahasenack> thanks!
[14:41] <rbasak> You're welcome! If it helps, what I did was: found the ddebs being built in https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/3631/+packages; browsed at the URL given by the PPA sources.list; found http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/3631/ubuntu/dists/bionic/main/debug/binary-amd64/Packages.gz; and reverse engineered the correct sources.list line from that.
[14:41] <ahasenack> as I said, witchcraft
[14:41] <ahasenack> :)
[14:41] <rbasak> Oh, and manually looked in the Packages.gz to confirm it contained the ddebs
[14:41] <rbasak> :-)
[14:52] <cpaelzer> ahasenack: sorry to be late , but a while ago I think I added this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash#Installing_dbgsym_packages_from_a_PPA
[14:53] <cpaelzer> is that the way you ended up using?
[14:53] <ahasenack> yes
[14:53] <ahasenack> "have no fear", heh
[14:53] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I usually built it in a sbuild env to debug it when I had that error
[14:53] <cpaelzer> that was what was leading me to the OVS upstream patch to suppotr pkg-config based libs
[14:54] <cpaelzer> it very likely is related to the same
[14:54] <cpaelzer> jamespage: do you have the configure.log available?
[14:54] <jamespage> cpaelzer: no that's from the backporter
[14:56] <cpaelzer> what could it be - I bundled the new pkg-config macros
[14:56] <cpaelzer> hmm
[14:56] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I think without a configure.log we are lost :-/
[15:01] <paride> ahasenack, I can confirm LP #1783129 is solved in the 18.04.2 RC. I was a bit surprised by finding the bionic-backports repo enabled by default, but its Release file has a 'NotAutomatic: yes' line, so I'm sure everything is as it should be.
[15:02] <jamespage> cpaelzer: I'll need to repro then doing something else right now
[16:35] <teward> stgraber: do you know any oddities with AppArmor on a host system running LXD not being able ot reload or restart itself to refresh apparmor rulesets?
[16:36] <teward> i ask because i ran into this yesterday when adjusting my apparmor overrides for bind9 so it could use a location ondisk without getting killed, and then apparmor couldn't restart/reload/refresh itself because of something related to the LXD snap
[16:36] <teward> not sure what exactly but
[16:38] <sdeziel> teward: to apply changes made to a profile, you not need to restart Apparmor. Instead: apparmor_parser -r -T -W /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.named && service bind9 restart
[16:39] <teward> sdeziel: there needs to be an easier 'reload' mechanism :P
[16:39] <teward> sdeziel: thanks though
[16:40] <teward> sdeziel: still intersting to note that AppArmor can't start if LXD is running though, in the case of, say, an AppArmor crash
[16:40] <teward> it can't start itself up in that case of LXD containers running snapped.
[18:27] <ahasenack> rbasak: do you know what this is about in mysql-server-8.0?
[18:27] <ahasenack> 2019-02-05T18:23:37.165647Z 0 [ERROR] [MY-011300] [Server] Plugin mysqlx reported: 'Setup of socket: '/var/run/mysqld/mysqlx.sock' failed, can't create lock file /var/run/mysqld/mysqlx.sock.lock'
[18:27] <ahasenack> mysql itself seems to be running fine, I can connect to it
[18:27] <ahasenack> mysqlx is something new
[18:39] <rbasak> ahasenack: I'm not seen that. I'd need Skuggen's (not here) help with that.
[18:40] <rbasak> You can ask him in #ubuntu-devel, but see my message there just now.
[18:40] <ahasenack> rbasak: I think we will need new apparmor rules
[18:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/cWq7ymJKBR/
[18:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: last one is about that mysqlx socket
[18:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: and there is openssl, since it links with it now
[18:42] <ahasenack> the /sys ones I thought was resolved already?
[18:43] <ahasenack> waat (deleting mysql8 from proposed)
[18:43] <ahasenack> well, at least the patches I added to net-snmp were not mysql-8 exclusive, I took the extra work so that it should still build with 5.6.x
[18:43] <ahasenack> er, 5.7.x
[18:48] <rbasak> That makes sense.
[18:48] <rbasak> Please tell Skuggen though!
[18:50] <ahasenack> rbasak: I can file a bug, objections?
[18:51] <rbasak> No objections, but might be worth checking the bug won't be impacted by the delete.
[18:52] <rbasak> Apart from that, bugs against 8.0 would be helpful for tracking, thanks.
[21:54] <how2hack> hi, i'm trying to join a ubuntu client to a ubuntu server domain controller, but i run into the following error: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vyppT2SCQf/
[21:54] <how2hack> a quick look in the journal shows these two errors: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/XDMVx2BMyY/
[21:55] <how2hack> can anyone tell me how to fix this?
[22:00] <lordcirth__> how2hack, check that your time on the two systems is accurate (<1s)
[22:00] <lordcirth__> 'date'
[22:03] <how2hack> oh, it's not
[22:03] <how2hack> it's off, by exactly 1hour
[22:03] <sarnold> lordcirth__: nice :)
[22:05] <how2hack> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/DS7b6czYTc/
[22:05] <how2hack> i changed the hour so it's the same in both but still i get that error in the journal
[22:43] <zzlatev_> Hi guys


[00:09] <vlada> digitaloktay, it does
[00:09] <digitaloktay> ah thx ^^
[00:09] <digitaloktay> and with radeon 9800 pro ?
[00:10] <digitaloktay> with boot options   radeon.nomodeset=0
[00:10] <vlada> digitaloktay, I don't know
[00:59] <mac9416> I'm sure y'all have answered this question a thousand times already, but... When will Ubuntu Studio 10.04 be released?
[00:59] <digitaloktay> its out
[00:59] <mac9416> Someone forgot to put it in the News on the website.
[00:59] <digitaloktay> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/
[01:00] <mac9416> OK, looks like someone just needs to update the site.
[01:01] <mac9416> And the channel topic.
[01:02] <mac9416> Yep, there it is. Thanks much!
[01:02] <digitaloktay> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/release/MD5SUMS
[01:02] <digitaloktay> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/release/ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-amd64.iso
[01:02] <digitaloktay> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/releases/lucid/release/ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-i386.iso
[01:02] <digitaloktay> check md5sum before :)
[01:03] <mac9416> Actually, I plan to order it from OSDisc.com. I have a 5GB/mo cap on my Internet, so I have to be careful.
[01:03] <mac9416> I hope it's available on OSDisc soon.
[01:03] <digitaloktay> f7991951bc3520bc25ddc7d4661f225b *ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-amd64.iso
[01:03] <digitaloktay> 38a999563d595306829084852800071c *ubuntustudio-10.04-alternate-i386.iso