[02:31] <rww> handling it ^
[03:15] <rww> I just resurrected one of my old scripts.
[03:15] <rww> "Pici's munin site has graphs of the size of the +b list over time, which you may find interesting."
  Going to start your own? or just a hostile take over of freenode?
[04:20] <rww> dealing with ^
[04:20] <Pici> ty
[04:24] <Pici> rww: I threw the guidelines at dupingping today, and perhaps the other day as well.
[04:24] <rww> ta. what were they doing then?
[04:24] <Pici> They were repeating a question over and over and not getting the point that they shouldn't do that.
[04:25] <Pici> the today one was just a few minutes ago for quoting what looked to be their resume
[04:25] <Pici> "I can do this, I can do that"
[04:25] <rww> mhm, just pulled up scrollback
[04:26] <rww> I note prepangolin is on the same IP address, and has been on a few other occasions
[04:26] <Pici> curious
[04:27] <h00k> maybe they are flatmates
[04:27] <rww> they claimed girlfriend in PM with somsip
[04:27] <rww> language barrier too, it seems
[05:31] <Unit193> rww: !raring s/supported/support/  ?
[05:57] <ianorlin> I found sometihng wrong with ubottu in that !canonical does not list Lubuntu or ubuntu-Gnome
[06:04] <Flannel> ianorlin: That's not a mistake.  Although since you brought it up, I'm unsure whether Xubuntu should be in that factoid anymore.
[06:07] <ianorlin> ok
[06:07] <Flannel> ianorlin: It's because Lubuntu and Ubuntu-Gnome aren't Canonical related.
[06:07] <ianorlin> ah
[06:07] <Unit193> Flannel: I do not think Xubuntu got funding, Kubuntu used to but doesn't any more from Canonical.
[06:08] <Unit193> Technically it's Canonical that does the hosting and buildds as well as repo.
[06:08] <Flannel> Unit193: I haven't kept up on what is/isn't sponsored/affiliated/whatever, because theres a number of dimensions.
[06:09] <Unit193> Actually, the Lubuntu.net website isn't Canonical, but Xubuntu is.
[06:09] <Unit193> Flannel: Yes, not really sure, it's complicated.
[06:10] <Flannel> So yes, I would think that Kubuntu might also be due to be removed from that list.
[06:11] <Unit193> I could concur, though it may be nice to say that they provide the infrastructure for the !flavors as well.
[06:12]  * ianorlin thinks provides infrastructure for falvors sounds good
[06:18] <rww> !raring
[06:18] <rww> !-raring
[06:19] <rww> !raring =~ s/  Supported/ Support/
[06:19] <rww> Unit193: thanks
[06:19] <Unit193> rww: Thank you.
[06:31] <bazhang> * FloodBot1 is now known as Guest41456
[06:31] <rww> yeah, the floodbots got a bit broken during the netsplam
[06:32] <rww> ... actually, nvm
[09:02] <bazhang> * FloodBot2 is now known as Guest50375
[09:02] <bazhang> bizarro
[09:38] <bazhang> autoremove does not take any arguments iirc
[09:38] <bazhang> perhaps he meant purge
[09:38] <Unit193> autoremove can be used with or without.
[09:40] <bazhang> and the fbots are mia
[09:44] <bazhang> day of wonders: 34 lines pasted and no fbot
[09:50] <knome> bazhang, you can do --purge autoremove
[09:55] <bazhang> what about autoremove packagename
[09:56] <knome> no
[09:56] <bazhang> ie mysql 5.5
[09:56] <knome> nope, you got to run remove then
[09:56] <bazhang> thats what I thought, thanks knome
[09:56] <knome> np
[09:57] <Unit193> knome: Then how have I done it?
[09:57] <knome> Unit193, hum?
[09:57] <knome> you're a weirdo?
[09:57] <Unit193> http://paste.openstack.org/show/62429/
[09:58] <knome> -s?
[09:58] <knome> right
[09:58] <knome> is that again a new feature?
[10:00] <Unit193> Pretty sure not.
[10:00] <Myrtti> hiya AlanBell_
[10:01] <Unit193> (Hint, autoremove --purge for most effect.)  Sometimes autoremove after removing the package will remove stuff that calling the remove with autoremove will miss, oddly.
[10:03] <knome> Unit193, aha.
[10:03] <Unit193> Yeah, it's weird.
[12:57] <LjL> the floodbots aren't broken (not more so than usual anyway). i disabled them.
[13:42] <k1l> LjL: Y U hatin floodbots?
[13:44] <LjL> i'm not, but since it seems everyone else is, i thought they might as well go
[13:44] <ikonia> I love the floodbots I sing their praises
[13:45] <Tm_T> I didn't know there's hate
[13:45] <ikonia> only love
[13:45]  * Tm_T huggles ikonia and LjL
[13:46] <k1l> hmm, i thought  it was because they gone mad in the netsplits or something like that.
[13:46] <ikonia> they did go mental
[13:46] <ikonia> but to be honest, what's to be expected
[13:46] <ikonia> the whole network went bad.
[13:46] <k1l> well, i have gone mad too while the ddos netsplits :)
[13:47] <k1l> ikonia: you really should stop that ddosing ;p
[13:47] <ikonia> brilliant so dupingping in #ubuntu-offtopic just got muted in #freenode for flooding it with pointless stuff
[13:47] <ikonia> k1l: nah, it's the one thing I'm good at.
[13:48] <k1l> hmm, dupingping rings some bells
[13:48] <LjL> i'm just tired of getting unprovoked remarks and arguments at how "bad" and/or "useless" the floodbots are. i don't care about maintaining them anymore, nobody stepped up to, i had to repeatedly bicker in meetings etc for their status... meh.
[13:48] <ikonia> LjL: they are really good.
[13:48] <ikonia> they provide a good function.
[14:00] <IdleOne> I need to get to an appointment, no time to talk. LjL please bring back the floodbots. Anybody else who doesn't like them is welcome to step up and provide a equal or better solution. be back a little later.
[14:09] <LjL> i think my mental health related to the frustration in responding to the "criticism" could possibly turn out to be more important than bots that are supposed to fight attacks that aren't really happening, when there's actual ops who can do a better job of that
[14:10] <ikonia> I don't think there is a better job
[14:10] <ikonia> they catch the general blurb very well
[14:10] <ikonia> it's only a troublesome individual that gets missed by them.
[14:10] <ikonia> which is where the human element wins
[14:12] <LjL> well let's put it like this, a "break" from using them was suggested, i implemented it. if the ircc wants them back - at large, though, not just informally "put them back" on here, then i guess the experimental break may be put aside
[14:12] <Pici> Maybe theres a lack of people praising the job of the floodbots, but that is only because we're so used to them.  I'm not sure I could go back to the old days of having to mute people manually and all that.
[14:12] <phunyguy> ^
[14:13] <Pici> LjL: The only break that was discussed (to my knowledge) was due to the 'new' way that freenode handles webchat bans.  The other features of the floodbots are definitely needed.
[14:13] <LjL> Pici, well, all i know is i periodically get shit from staffers and our ops about how they're useless in the first place, and #ubuntu doesn't have attack that need stopping - which is so frustrating to even reply to because i *know* the reason i originally made the bots was that we had to +r *all the time* due to GNAA and similar attacks. but i get a "that seems doubtful" as a response
[14:14] <phunyguy> LjL: I could take a look at the FloodBot code at some point to see if it is something I can help with
[14:14] <LjL> so hey if people want to change history and pretend this was never useful and just a paranoid concoction of mine... i'm not going to play the part of the fool
[14:14] <phunyguy> :(
[14:16] <LjL> Pici, i think IdleOne should have the logs of the particular incident i'm referring to. i probably don't because it was during the netsplit frenzy, and i was talking through not-my-computer. but, it's not the only incident of that kind, for sure. as i said, it's something that periodically gets raised.
[14:17] <ikonia> LjL: I fought hard to get the floodbots left in place, even when you where disputing with the team and threatening to take them away
[14:17] <ikonia> LjL: I genuinly value them.
[14:17] <Pici> Me too
[14:18] <Pici> As much as I joke about them being php, I do value them.
[14:18] <LjL> well, when i was "threatening" to take them away, i was accused of blackmail and such (of course it's my code, but hey). so now i'm not threatening anything, i've just taken them away. discuss it openly, and i'll bring them back if there's widespread agreement.
[14:19] <ikonia> no-one said you where threatening anything now, I'm just trying to show you that I valued them
[14:19] <LjL> ikonia, but it was said at the time. in pretty strong ways. my memory is a bit messed up by meds, but it still works a bit.
[14:19] <ikonia> LjL: beause it was true
[14:20] <ikonia> it was a blackmail situation - if this doesn't change I'll take the bots
[14:20] <ikonia> seems it needs a clear decision from the council if we want them / not
[14:20] <LjL> right so i was wrong about doing it like that
[14:20] <LjL> so this time there is no "if this doesn't change"
[14:20] <ikonia> and if people critiquing them bothers you, I guess you need to decide if you can live with it before offering it
[14:21] <ikonia> I know, no-one is saying any such threat has been made.
[14:21] <ikonia> I was just showing that I fought for them even when it wasn't in our interest
[14:21] <ikonia> because they are good
[14:22] <phunyguy> LjL: I would be glad to help with them if you don't have much time/interest.
[14:22] <LjL> there was a Launchpad project with the source that people could ask to access, but then Canonical sent me an email stating that "private" projects could only continue being offered on a paid basis, and i did nothing, so i think it got locked
[14:22] <phunyguy> I would just need to learn whatever language they are written in, but shouldn't be too hard.
[14:23] <phunyguy> are they Python?
[14:23] <dupingping> hello!
[14:23] <ikonia> LjL: maybe we could look at setting up a private SVN/GIT repo or something to sort that out
[14:23] <dupingping> yes
[14:23] <phunyguy> hi dupingping, how can we help you?
[14:23] <dupingping> ah~
[14:24] <dupingping> #ubuntu-offtopic is died.
[14:24] <ikonia> dupingping: I banned you and removed you from #ubuntu-offtopic
[14:24] <dupingping> i want to join it.
[14:24] <LjL> phunyguy: no, PHP
[14:24] <LjL> phunyguy: and very messy
[14:24] <phunyguy> LjL: even better
[14:24] <ikonia> dupingping: you kept just hilighting people for no reason, LjL had asked you to stop
[14:24] <phunyguy> LjL I was a perl guy
[14:24] <dupingping> +ikonia: why?
[14:25] <ikonia> dupingping: you also got muted in #freenode for flooding it, so I have to assume your intention is to cause a problem rather than participate in the channel.
[14:25] <dupingping> ah~
[14:25] <phunyguy> going to agree with ikonia here.  I saw it in #freenode.
[14:25] <dupingping> please help me!
[14:25] <dupingping> i am a poor beginner!
[14:25] <ikonia> yes, you've said that multiple times
[14:25] <ikonia> but you've also been asked not to do something - and you do it
[14:25] <ikonia> that's not being a beginner, thats ignoring instructions/advice.
[14:26] <dupingping> oh?
[14:26] <dupingping> i am a python developer!
[14:26] <ikonia> that has nothing to do with anything
[14:26] <phunyguy> dupingping: I suggest you start taking some of the advice you are given.
[14:26] <phunyguy> if not all.
[14:26] <ikonia> I suggest finding another channel to talk in, maybe one that uses your native language.
[14:28] <dupingping> 您好
[14:28] <dupingping> please help me!
[14:28] <phunyguy> I think we are done here.
[14:28] <LjL> :(
[14:28] <ikonia> dupingping: what's your native language ?
[14:29] <dupingping> it's chinese.
[14:29] <LjL> chinese is my guess
[14:29] <ikonia> a good guess
[14:29] <dupingping> then?
[14:29] <phunyguy> 您好 = Hello
[14:29] <dupingping> yes! hahaha
[14:29] <ikonia> try #chinese
[14:29] <ikonia> that is a chinese chat room
[14:29] <dupingping> yes?
[14:30] <dupingping> i hate chinese!
[14:30] <dupingping> i learn english!
[14:30] <ikonia> try ##english then
[14:30] <ikonia> good place to learn / talk about English language
[14:30] <dupingping> i want to join in #ubuntu-offtopic
[14:31] <ikonia> dupingping: you can't
[14:31] <LjL> dupingping, i think you need to understand English better, to follow rules in #ubuntu-offtopic.  So, yes, please use ##English for a while... I am there, and it is a very nice channel!
[14:31] <dupingping> why?
[14:31] <dupingping> ok ok
[14:32] <dupingping> i'll sleep!
[14:33] <phunyguy> Goodnight, sir
[14:33] <phunyguy> Please /part the channel when you go.
[14:33] <dupingping> Goodnight, everyboard.
[14:33] <dupingping> Goodnight, everybody.
[14:33] <dupingping> it's my mistake
[14:36] <phunyguy> LjL: if you feel up to it, you can PM me a link with some code, I don't mind if it is messy.  I can tinker with them in my own channel.
[16:57] <ikonia> really "microsoft_" is an offensive nickname and needs to be changed ?
[16:57] <Pici> People are annoying today.
[16:57] <ikonia> I'm getting very fed up with MonkeyDust's actual help of people.
 microsoft_  your nick is offensive and disturbing, please change it
[17:01] <bazhang> wth
[17:01] <phunyguy> indeed.
[17:01] <phunyguy> I am guilty of similar mistakes, so I can't say much
[17:01] <LjL-Card> MonkeyDust and ActionParsnip are the new Marvel heros
[17:02] <bazhang> if it was M$sux I could see it, but ....
[17:02] <ikonia> ha ha
[17:02] <ikonia> actionparsnip can actually help though
[17:02] <ikonia> monkeydust just quotes google articles at people as his own
[17:02] <ikonia> (mostly)
[17:13] <raznik> Hello.
[17:13] <raznik> I was banned by ikonia for doing nothing.
[17:16] <IdleOne> LjL: I don't know who suggested this break from using the bots. I don't recall it being me.
[17:17] <bazhang> #ubuntu: 2014-02-04T17:08:20 <raznik> please shut up, Pici. it is related with Ubuntu.
[17:17] <Pici> To be honest, I had no idea what they were talking about.
[17:17] <bazhang> raznik augh he quit
[17:17] <ikonia> good
[17:17] <Pici> It just didn't sound like Ubuntu.
[17:17] <bazhang> dealxi?
[17:18] <bazhang> dealextreme
[17:20] <Pici> The antenna stuff
[17:34] <LjL> IdleOne, Pici: http://privatepaste.com/f0649bc9a3/sb45y
[17:35] <IdleOne> LjL: yes I remember it quite clearly.
[17:35] <LjL> then you know who suggested it...?
[17:36] <IdleOne> I remember that part now.
[17:37] <IdleOne> I wish you would have talked to me before pulling them though
[17:38] <IdleOne> not saying you can't do what you want with the code after all it is yours.
[17:38] <Pici> LjL: adran isn't an op
[17:38] <LjL> i couldn't care less, i've got enough of this from ops, ex-ops, staff, ex-staff
[17:38] <ikonia> ok - so lets get used to life without the floodbots
[17:38] <ikonia> they did a great job, but if they are no longer available, lets deal with it and move on
[17:38] <IdleOne> IMHO the floodbots do more good and help us more than most people think.
[17:39] <LjL> then maybe it will be nice if they are reminded, eh
[17:39] <bazhang> "tough love"
[17:39] <ikonia> don't think so
[17:39] <ikonia> can't have it run like that
[17:39] <bazhang> baby dont hurt me
[17:39] <ikonia> I'm unhappy so I'll punish the channel to make individuals realise
[17:39] <ikonia> so lets drop the floodbots despite their qualities and move on
[17:40] <LjL> yep, indeed, no matter what i do, i'm either a fool or malicious, so, this camp can fuck off, and the other camp can fuck off
[17:40] <IdleOne> err
[17:40] <ikonia> sorry but that is fact
[17:41] <ikonia> you removed the bots from the channels
[17:41] <ikonia> no-one else did that
[17:41] <ikonia> so if it's going to be at the whim of an individual we should get used to not having them
[17:41] <IdleOne> I would rather you bring the bots back and we work on either opening the code or implementing a different solution.
[17:41] <k1l_> you only know what you got till its gone.
[17:41] <LjL> IdleOne: look at the train. it's gone.
[17:41] <ikonia> I know what it is, it was a quality useful tool
[17:41] <bazhang> big yellow taxi
[17:42] <k1l_> so i dont see a "problem" with the floodbots. (besides technical stuff i dont see anyway)
[17:42] <LjL> IdleOne, seriously, the code has been there for... what, a year? two? for people to chime in and "open the code" or "implement a different solution". rww didn't even KNOW that, despite, i believe, it being publicly advertized.
[17:43] <LjL> how long am i supposed to wait still (while being mocked at random)? half a decade, just to be sure?
[17:43] <ikonia> no-one is mocking you
[17:43] <LjL> is "step down considerably" supposed to be in slow motion?
[17:43] <LjL> ikonia: you mean no-one except the ones that are?
[17:43] <IdleOne> LjL: If that is what you want to do, pull the bots, that is fine with me. I want you to understand that there are people who appreciate the bots and what they do.
[17:43] <Pici> LjL: then give us a deadline
[17:44] <LjL> Pici: yesterday
[17:44] <Pici> LjL: thanks
[17:44] <k1l_> well, would a "call for coders" help? like a call for operators the irrc does
[17:44] <LjL> k1l_: THAT'S WHAT I DID
[17:44] <LjL> A YEAR AGO
[17:45] <Pici> this did happen
[17:45] <IdleOne> LjL: phunyguy has expressed interest in helping with them, again this is up to you, but if you are willing to work with him and get this started. That would be great
[17:45] <IdleOne> it did and nobody was interested then, now we have someone who is.
[17:46] <Pici> LjL: I understand your frustration, but is there really something that you are actively doing to keep the floodboots up and running?
[17:46] <ikonia> LjL: would you allow me to take a copy of the code and host it on an internal server for the team
[17:46] <ikonia> that way it's off your plate/hands
[17:46] <ikonia> I appreciate the launchpad solution crippled any effort
[17:46] <ikonia> (along with a lack of interest)
[17:47] <k1l_> LjL: ok, i didnt know that. besides i am not a coder and i dont think i can help with that i try to help that situation with some brainstorming. maybe we need to call to a broader audience and not just the typic op and #ubuntu* friends? like a post on planet.ubuntu ?
[17:47] <ikonia> posting the code would be unacceptable
[17:47] <ikonia> thats the reason it's being controlled
[17:47] <Pici> Does it need to be?
[17:48] <ikonia> I think so yes
[17:48] <ikonia> ljl made a pretty good case initially as I recall to keep it to a small list
[17:48] <ikonia> (list of people)
[17:48] <IdleOne> LjL: I know this was explained before but could you tell us again why it was made a private project?
[17:48] <ikonia> he didn't
[17:48] <ikonia> non-open projects are paid process
[17:48] <IdleOne> explained a year ago*
[17:49] <ikonia> (on launchpad)
[17:49] <RobKardashian_> did kim kardashian spread her pussy for kayne west?
[17:51] <LjL> IdleOne: because the source code wasn't supposed to be opened up until someone stepped up to clean it?
[17:51]  * phunyguy steps up
[17:52] <phunyguy> I don't know PHP, but syntax is all I don't know.
[17:52] <IdleOne> LjL: is there anything in the source that shouldn't be available to all eyes is what i am asking?
[17:52] <LjL> anyway the answer is no, i'm fed up, with Ubuntu, with the ops team, with people who "know better", and so on. there's been all the chances in the world to get them opened up through a "process", now *at most*, all that's going to happen is that if in a while, the IRCC thinks these are still useful after the "break", they can decide to ask me to re-enable them, and then we start from there. but if it's unacceptable for one individual to control them, then
[17:52] <LjL> write replacements.
[17:52] <LjL> IdleOne: yes
[17:54] <ikonia> LjL: it's not unacceptable for an individual to control them, but it's a problem when you take them away / bring them back at your own decision.
[17:54] <ikonia> I don't mind you running the bots, infact I'm thankful for it,
[17:56] <Blueink_> !ops
[17:56] <Blueink_> !staff
[17:56] <phunyguy> wow, vermont?
[17:56] <phunyguy> his reach is growing
[17:56] <Pricey> Is that the guy we ignored...?
[17:56] <IdleOne> yes
[17:56] <Pici> it was
[17:56] <k1l_> yes, he switched states to undo the mute
[17:56] <IdleOne> ubottu: ignore *!*c-107-3-23-43.hsd1.vt.comcast.net
[17:57] <IdleOne> ubottu: ignore<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:57] <Pricey> 'states'?
[17:57] <Pricey> oh, american states
[17:59] <genii> He seems to be making the rounds
[17:59] <ikonia> sorted now
[19:22] <k1l_> @mark #ubuntu govno misusing the supportchannel to find people click on his ref-link
[19:26] <bazhang> he just hit multiple other channels as well
[19:26] <bazhang> "just need 3 more!"
[19:30] <genii> Bah
[19:32] <DJones> SN3: Is there something we can help you with?
[19:35] <IdleOne> SN3: Please stop joining this channel unless you have a specific need and are available to discuss it.
[22:57] <genii> @comment 59386 Reviewed, not removed.


[15:08] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: hi! what's up with the xorg-server package in bionic-proposed?
[15:08] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: can it be released? I have a security update to do...
[15:20] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: same question for xorg-server-hwe-16.04 in xenial
[15:25] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: imo yes
[15:25] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: can you ping someone on the sru team to release it please?
[15:25] <mdeslaur> s/release it/release them both/
[15:27] <tjaalton> yep
[15:31] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: thanks! :)
[15:46] <tjaalton> mdeslaur: lukasz will release them in a bit
[15:47] <mdeslaur> tjaalton: awesome, thanks again
[15:50] <tjaalton> these were long overdue..


[01:44] <pochu> @schedule
[01:44] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 19 Feb 21:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 12:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 16:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 16:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu US LoCo Team Mentor | 25 Feb 17:00: LoCo Team
[07:01] <poningru> @schedule EST
[07:01] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 19 Feb 16:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council
[07:23] <pochu> @cet
[07:24] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[07:24] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council
[07:24] <pochu> @schedule cet
[07:24] <Ubugtu> Schedule for CET: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council
[07:53] <guerby> @schedule paris
[07:53] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council
[08:45] <hjmf> @schedule valencia
[08:45] <hjmf> @schedule Madrid
[08:45] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Madrid: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council
[09:35] <pochu> @now cet
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Current time in CET: February 19 2007, 21:35:10 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 54 minutes
[09:35] <stgraber> @schedule Europe\Zurich
[09:35] <stgraber> @schedule Zurich
[09:35] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 19 Feb 22:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 13:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 18:00: LoCo Team | 27 Feb 00:00: Community Council
[10:03] <pochu> @now
[10:03] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 19 2007, 21:04:00 - Next meeting: Mozilla Team in 25 minutes
[10:18] <poningru> @schedule EST
[10:18] <Ubugtu> Schedule for EST: 19 Feb 16:30: Mozilla Team | 21 Feb 07:00: Edubuntu | 21 Feb 11:00: Kernel Team | 22 Feb 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 25 Feb 12:00: LoCo Team | 26 Feb 18:00: Community Council
[10:18] <poningru> @schedule EDT
[10:18] <poningru> 0.o
[10:30] <poningru> yarr
[10:31] <asac> gnomefreak: who is not here?
[10:32] <asac> Freddy, Martin, ??
[10:32] <asac> ups Freddy, David, ??
[10:32] <poningru> gnomefreak went out for a 'smoke'
[10:32] <gnomefreak> #startmeeting
[10:32] <Moot2> Meeting started at 22:32. The chair is gnomefreak.
[10:33] <asac> want to wait a few more minutes to see if others show up?
[10:33] <poningru> sure
[10:33] <gnomefreak> thats fine
[10:33] <gnomefreak> damn thing pms me too :(
[10:33] <poningru> lol
[10:34] <gnomefreak> who is here for the meeting?
[10:34] <poningru> brb
[10:34] <gnomefreak> brb == you rnot here for meeting ;)
[10:34] <asac>  Freddy, David are missing
[10:35] <gnomefreak> asac: how long do you have here?
[10:36] <gnomefreak> freedy wont be here
[10:36] <gnomefreak> he said something about it yesterday/over weekend the more i think of it
[10:37] <asac> will be here ... but maybe not that responsive for some minutes :)
[10:37] <gnomefreak> i have 2 ageda points im sure are the same as eachother
[10:37] <asac> 60 min. at least :)
[10:37] <pochu> hello!
[10:38] <gnomefreak> ther eyou are
[10:38] <gnomefreak> :)
[10:38] <poningru> back
[10:38] <gnomefreak> pochu: we will be starting soon.
[10:38] <pochu> gnomefreak: when you want :)
[10:38] <gnomefreak> not me when david shows up
[10:38] <gnomefreak> who is eldo?
[10:39] <gnomefreak> ah
[10:39] <gnomefreak> poningru: and pochu i think your ageda points are the same but we will go over it
[10:40] <pochu> gnomefreak: looking
[10:40] <pochu> gnomefreak: don't know :)
[10:40] <poningru> it is?
[10:41] <poningru> which one? the tbird and...?
[10:41] <gnomefreak> nvm miss read it
[10:42] <pochu> poningru: I'm emilio
[10:42] <poningru> hehe
[10:47] <poningru> ok guess we can start?
[10:48] <gnomefreak> asac: if it ok with you we can start with the ones that david nor alex need to be here for like poningru and pochu's points?
[10:49] <asac> ok
[10:49] <gnomefreak> [topic]  include thunderbird 2.0 rc in Feisty
[10:49] <Moot2> New topic:  include thunderbird 2.0 rc in Feisty
[10:50] <asac> can someone please summarize what was done with firefox in edgy?
[10:50] <gnomefreak> asac: we added non released ff in edgy
[10:50] <gnomefreak> securty fixes got us to where we are with it iirc
[10:50] <poningru> pochu: ping your up
[10:50] <asac> hmm
[10:50] <pochu> hi!
[10:51] <asac> what is released fro tbird 2.0 already?
[10:51] <asac> rc1 ?
[10:51] <gnomefreak> asac pochu the issue i see is tb 2.0 is far off iirc
[10:51] <gnomefreak> rc1 i think
[10:51] <poningru> gnomefreak: not that far off
[10:51] <pochu> rc1 is later febraury
[10:51] <pochu> I think it's still beta2
[10:51] <pochu> looking
[10:51] <gnomefreak> poningru: oh yes it is
[10:51] <poningru> yes beta2
[10:51] <poningru> gnomefreak: couple of months
[10:51] <asac> i think its just not stable enough to push a beta2
[10:51] <gnomefreak> asac: you still have that link you gave me about it?
[10:52] <asac> we can try to prepare thunderbird package though, in case mozilla releases 2.0 in time for feisty
[10:52] <pochu> beta2
[10:52] <gnomefreak> poningru: there is no date set last i heard
[10:52] <poningru> gnomefreak: nope no date set
[10:52] <pochu> asac: rc1 should be out in february
[10:52] <gnomefreak> poningru: its still a ways off there are alot of things holding it back
[10:52] <pochu> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/thunderbird/roadmap.html
[10:52] <poningru> gnomefreak: but iirc goal is 2nd quarter 07
[10:53] <pochu> First Quarter 2007  	Final Release
[10:53] <asac> that would be too late
[10:53] <pochu> first quarter
[10:53] <poningru> ah nm
[10:53] <asac> all we can do is be as good prepared as possible to push thunderbird 2 fast in case it gets released in time
[10:53] <gnomefreak> asac: have you decided to open a repo for our packages?
[10:53] <pochu> I've added this item because, in case final isn't at time, we could get rc, as we did with firefox
[10:54] <poningru> asac, gnomefreak I still think we should include the rc
[10:54] <asac> we'll have to see ... take a look at still open blocker bugs et al.
[10:54] <gnomefreak> pochu: but edgy was a throw anything you can in it before run out of time
[10:54] <poningru> it is stable enough to be used
[10:54] <pochu> and as soon as final in out, include it
[10:54] <gnomefreak> asac: i was gonna show them that link but i dont hav eit
[10:55] <poningru> oh hold on
[10:55] <poningru> re: blocker bugs
[10:56] <gnomefreak> asac: feature freeze is over with anyway. and since its in main its not gonna be fun to try and push through
[10:56] <asac> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?keywords_type=nowords&keywords=fixed1.8.1+verified1.8.1+fixed<IP_ADDRESS>+verified<IP_ADDRESS>+fixed<IP_ADDRESS>+verified<IP_ADDRESS>&field0-0-0=flagtypes.name&type0-0-0=equals&value0-0-0=blocking-thunderbird2%2B&order=map_assigned_to.login_name,bugs.bug_id
[10:56] <asac> gnomefreak: agree ...its not standard procedure to ship rc releases in main
[10:56] <gnomefreak> correct
[10:56] <poningru> hmm
[10:57] <gnomefreak> if you set up a repo they can get the buids we will have for them that thats a differnet story
[10:57] <asac> i will ask release team about what they think?
[10:57] <pochu> I said it because edgy... :D
[10:57] <gnomefreak> pochu: edgy was a different story it wasnt gonna be stable
[10:58] <gnomefreak> it was but that fell though due to time restraints
[10:58] <pochu> gnomefreak: ok, then it's clarify :)
[10:58] <asac> ACTION: I will ask release team
[10:58] <pochu> and would be possible to include it if it's late?
[10:58] <poningru> ok I guess I see that
[10:59] <asac> will ask about requirements
[10:59] <gnomefreak> ok lets move on we will hold this for asac to dicuss it with release team
[10:59] <pochu> ok :)
[10:59] <poningru> true
[10:59] <asac> yeah ... but don't be too optimistic ... I would say no will be the answer :/
[11:00] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Weekly builds for browser and mail
[11:00] <Moot2> New topic:  Weekly builds for browser and mail
[11:00] <poningru> hehe
[11:00] <poningru> ok so in the mozillazine forums every day
[11:00] <gnomefreak> poningru: we can have them but not in feisty repos
[11:00] <poningru> gnomefreak: ofcourse
[11:00] <gnomefreak> poningru: im working on tb 2.0 and firefox 3.0
[11:00] <pochu> weekly builds from the trunk code?
[11:01] <poningru> pochu: yes
[11:01] <asac> i work on a solution to setup a previe archive. we could release from there, but we would need to coordinate builds for different architectures
[11:01] <poningru> gnomefreak: I was thinking about for our own repo and on a testing team for the forum
[11:01] <asac> however, we cannot release with official branding
[11:02] <gnomefreak> asac: ok i only have dgy and feisty arch 386 :(
[11:02] <poningru> asac: ofcourse
[11:02] <gnomefreak> edgy*
[11:02] <crimsun> right, I was just going to inquire about upstream's blessing those weeklies
[11:02] <poningru> asac: even upstreams daily trunk stuff does not include their branding
[11:02] <asac> but lets try to push this to the time after release of feisty for now.
[11:02] <asac> poningru: yes ... just wanted to note that
[11:03] <gnomefreak> asac: agreed i will still work on them if i get time but i wont focus on them
[11:03] <asac> if anyone wants to do it, feel free ... However, i think its not the best task to start with on packaging.
[11:03] <gnomefreak> oh bleh its fun :(
[11:03] <poningru> so we need to have it on all the archs and supported versions?
[11:04] <gnomefreak> poningru: best idea
[11:04] <asac> no ... only those that we receive requests for
[11:04] <poningru> asac: I was thinking this primarily for getting more people involved for testing
[11:04] <gnomefreak> 64 and 386 for now i would think
[11:04] <poningru> as in we post on the forums 'this weeks build is up'
[11:05] <asac> poningru: yeah ... if there is someone who has other archs we can organise it once preview archive is setup
[11:05] <poningru> yeah
[11:06] <asac> ok, move on?
[11:06] <gnomefreak> to what?
[11:06] <asac> Adding [WWW]  Thunderbird-Human-Theme to the repositories. ?
[11:06] <poningru> so... if someone wants to do this just do it?
[11:06] <asac> yes ... otherwise, I will do it in time after feisty
[11:06] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Adding [WWW]  Thunderbird-Human-Theme to the repositories.
[11:06] <Moot2> New topic:  Adding [WWW]  Thunderbird-Human-Theme to the repositories.
[11:06] <poningru> or wait for the repos to come up?
[11:06] <poningru> oh ok
[11:06] <gnomefreak> poningru: work on ff
[11:06] <asac> anyone can say something about the quality of that theme?
[11:07] <poningru> link to the theme?
[11:07] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HumanThunderbird
[11:07] <gnomefreak> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HumanThunderbird
[11:07] <asac> i think its a good idea to do that.
[11:08] <gnomefreak> was it wanting to be built into tb?
[11:08] <asac> however we have to figure out  if this is of good quality and if there is an active upstream for it
[11:08] <asac> so in case we need new icons, there is actually someone we can bug
[11:08] <poningru> its not that hard to maintain a theme for tbird/firefox
[11:09] <asac> can you paint icons?
[11:09] <gnomefreak> i see that as something to look into but again wont happen for feisty (atleast i wouldnt think so)
[11:09] <poningru> asac: yes
[11:09] <asac> ok ... gtk
[11:09] <poningru> blargh?
[11:09] <asac> ok ... lets include theme in feisty+1 and if we receive good feedback, maybe make it default theme
[11:09] <gnomefreak> i like
[11:09] <poningru> yeah sounds good
[11:10] <gnomefreak> can we take a breif break maybe 3-5 minutes
[11:10] <asac> hmmm  ... but then lets hurry
[11:10] <asac> getting really late here ;)
[11:10] <poningru> ... dont you dare say its for a smoke
[11:10] <gnomefreak> and if you have davids number get to calling him
[11:10] <gnomefreak> ok than lets go
[11:11] <gnomefreak> [topic]  The necessity of packaging extensions.
[11:11] <Moot2> New topic:  The necessity of packaging extensions.
[11:11] <gnomefreak> dfarning: just in time
[11:11] <dfarning> hey all
[11:11] <gnomefreak> :)
[11:11] <asac> hi
[11:11] <dfarning> my topic is there really  need to repackage extensions?
[11:11] <asac> general rule imo:
[11:12] <asac> extensions with native components (e.g. included shared libs) are always worth consideration inclusion
[11:12] <gnomefreak> i would like to get a few in if at all possible but upstream for extentions sucks
[11:12] <asac> other extensions not as they are available for all
[11:12] <pochu> hi dfarning :)
[11:12] <asac> exception: in case its highly ubuntu specific, consider to include (e.g. launchpad extension)
[11:12] <dfarning> which ones have shared libs
[11:12] <asac> enigmail ... colorzilla
[11:13] <asac> actually thats why we see the crash in colorzilla
[11:13] <gnomefreak> asac: only one i found like that is the ubuntu forums menu but its eh
[11:13] <dfarning> ah ok
[11:13] <asac> there should be not that many extensions ... but there are some
[11:13] <poningru> gnomefreak++
[11:13] <dfarning> should we look at them on a case by case basis reject unnecessary packages
[11:14] <asac> yes.
[11:14] <poningru> but why?
[11:14] <gnomefreak> dfarning: asac how about we work together to come up with a list and see what happens (if we can include them at all)
[11:14] <dfarning> that is my thought also
[11:14] <asac> lets deal with them as soon as there is a request for inclusion.
[11:14] <poningru> hmm true that
[11:14] <gnomefreak> there are 2 that im aware of with request one formal one informal
[11:15] <poningru> dfarning: are you talking about removing certain packaged extensions?
[11:15] <dfarning> we should look into only packaging the package that we need and grab the others from upstream
[11:15] <pochu> gnomefreak: enigmail+1
[11:16] <AlexLatchford> Howdy
[11:16] <dfarning> ill set up a wiki and we can work through them
[11:16] <pochu> hi AlexLatchford!
[11:16] <gnomefreak> ok cool
[11:16] <gnomefreak> hi AlexLatchford
[11:16] <gnomefreak> can we move on?
[11:16] <dfarning> yes
[11:16] <AlexLatchford> what we up to?
[11:16] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Mozilla Council start-up.
[11:16] <Moot2> New topic:  Mozilla Council start-up.
[11:16] <AlexLatchford> aha good
[11:16] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: all over the place
[11:16] <AlexLatchford> cool cool
[11:16] <gnomefreak> we already got one of yorus
[11:16] <AlexLatchford> thats cool
[11:17] <dfarning> I have been interacting quite a bit with both up and down stream organization
[11:17] <asac> dfarning: is that on-topic " Mozilla Council start-up" ?
[11:17] <sladen> hello people, re: the ColorZilla binary issue, there's a thread on the ubuntu-uk and I contacted the upstream author
[11:17] <gnomefreak> dfarning: you thoughts on the council?
[11:18] <dfarning> would like a formal method of helping make some of the decisions
[11:18] <asac> sladen: i am already in contact with auther
[11:18] <asac> please lets do not duplicate work
[11:18] <asac> he will probably release as free-software so we can package it up
[11:18] <asac> but lets see what his final decision is
[11:18] <AlexLatchford> can we please stay on topic :)
[11:18] <asac> k
[11:19] <dfarning> i would like to be able to present ideas that other organization have to the conuncial for vote
[11:19] <gnomefreak> dfarning: we can set that up fairly easy. can you outline what the councils positions will be (as in what we do) final member process so on
[11:19] <sladen> asac: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2007-February/003185.html
[11:19] <dfarning> yes will base it on cc
[11:20] <poningru> wont we have to run this by them first?
[11:20] <poningru> cc/tech board
[11:20] <dfarning> I'll bring it up
[11:20] <AlexLatchford> I don't think so
[11:20] <asac> i think we have to
[11:21] <gnomefreak> dfarning: if you or someone else or both can outline this on a wiki as in what council would do what process for memebers should be so on?
[11:21] <dfarning> yes, by next meeting;)
[11:21] <gnomefreak> k :) sorry me sucks at wikis
[11:21] <AlexLatchford> dfarning: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Council
[11:21] <AlexLatchford> :)
[11:21] <dfarning> I will do it will seek jonos advice
[11:22] <gnomefreak> ok sounds good to me
[11:22] <gnomefreak> move on?
[11:22] <dfarning> next
[11:22] <gnomefreak> [topic]  What has been done and what needs to be done from last meeting.
[11:22] <Moot2> New topic:  What has been done and what needs to be done from last meeting.
[11:22] <gnomefreak> basicly what hasnt been done from last meeting anything that really needs to be?
[11:23] <dfarning> for me me the biggest blocker apport so you guys can have good crash reports
[11:23] <dfarning> good progress this weekend
[11:23] <asac> dfarning: state on that? you talked to martin?
[11:23] <dfarning> yes a got a mail back from him
[11:23] <gnomefreak> yay
[11:24] <AlexLatchford> I have been working on the wiki more, defining a structure and annoying guidelines to follow, also worked on a few pages.
[11:24] <dfarning> I'll email you all the detail. cause i can't type fast enough
[11:24] <gnomefreak> dfarning: is it in progress atleast?"
[11:24] <dfarning> very good progress
[11:24] <gnomefreak> good
[11:24] <asac> ok, so dfarning will email details on apport
[11:24] <asac> next?
[11:25] <gnomefreak> that and bughelper
[11:25] <dfarning> does alex need help on the wiki it is starting to take shape
[11:25] <gnomefreak> are the only 2 things that are biggest concern outside of wikis IMHO
[11:25] <AlexLatchford> Well as I have written the guidelines now, people can jump in
[11:25] <asac> i add content when i have to time to :)
[11:26] <asac> feel free to reorganize like you wish
[11:26] <dfarning> I am considering bh block by apport for now
[11:26] <gnomefreak> ok thats fine
[11:26] <dfarning> gnomefreak, what are they?
[11:26] <AlexLatchford> I think the biggest problem we have is TB-dbg package for Edgy and below
[11:26] <dfarning> i'll hit on that in the apport email;)
[11:26] <asac> ok ... we'll know more later
[11:27] <asac> lets move ;)
[11:27] <gnomefreak> ok that is fine for now
[11:27] <gnomefreak> asac: your up
[11:27] <AlexLatchford> I mean we have 100 reports for edgy and below in TB we can do nothing about
[11:27] <gnomefreak> [topic]  bug tags and workflow
[11:27] <Moot2> New topic:  bug tags and workflow
[11:27] <gnomefreak> so you can go :)
[11:27] <asac> actually i updated the wiki page for bug states ... it should be rather complete for needs info and confirm now.
[11:28] <asac> maybe we should try how it works ... and then discuss at next meeting?
[11:28] <asac> feel free to ask if you have questions
[11:28] <poningru> hmm
[11:28] <gnomefreak> ok we can push it
[11:28] <asac> anyway, I would like some action on improving the blueprints
[11:28] <asac> (last point in the list)
[11:28] <AlexLatchford> I personally haven't had the time to read the page yet
[11:28] <asac> AlexLatchford: yes ... so lets wait a week to get feedback
[11:28] <gnomefreak> i read through it but it was differnet than what was on the tags page
[11:29] <gnomefreak> but i havent looked at since since you updated it
[11:29] <dfarning> bug state look like they are comin along nicely
[11:30] <dfarning> are they stable to add the state names to bh
[11:30] <asac> i updated tag page
[11:30] <asac> a bit already
[11:30] <gnomefreak> asac: what do you mean improving blueprint (when to use where to use each tag?)
[11:30] <asac> no ... bulk responses
[11:30] <asac> like
[11:30] <asac> please list what extensions installed, which plugins, etc.
[11:30] <dfarning> soon apport will take care of those question for us;)
[11:30] <AlexLatchford> in /bugs/Triage/Responses
[11:31] <gnomefreak> ok i agree we need to do some work with that including getting rid of the 3 that are exact same reponce
[11:31] <asac> those text can be improved. e.g. by run -safe-mode and if the problem goes away, try to figure out what extension is missing
[11:31] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: yes
[11:31] <asac> eah ... what extension breaks :)
[11:31] <AlexLatchford> asac: this is on my todo list
[11:31] <gnomefreak> cool
[11:31] <asac> if you need input on them just ask :)
[11:31] <asac> AlexLatchford: ^^
[11:31] <AlexLatchford> I will try to get to it by the next meeting, please feel free to submit some on the mailing list
[11:32] <dfarning> I is would be helpful if you could like the most impost questions
[11:32] <dfarning> s/like/list
[11:32] <AlexLatchford> I would actually appreciate it if a topic in the mailing list was started with responses, ill start one up later
[11:32] <asac> ok ... agree i think i will update wiki bits as good as i can :)
[11:32] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: sounds good to me
[11:32] <gnomefreak> moving on?
[11:32] <asac> ok
[11:32] <dfarning> yes
[11:33] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Taking over the [WWW]  Thunderbird package from Mark Shuttleworth.
[11:33] <Moot2> New topic:  Taking over the [WWW]  Thunderbird package from Mark Shuttleworth.
[11:33] <gnomefreak> i think that is not nessicerary the more i look at the page
[11:33] <asac> agree
[11:33] <AlexLatchford> well I saw the page for firefox, which we have control over
[11:33] <gnomefreak> its not really saying anything that concerns us directly
[11:34] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: if i see mark online ill ping him about it if i remember?
[11:34] <AlexLatchford> I am not sure exactly what owning the package does, but it would be useful maybe for asac and/or gnomefreak for releases maybe
[11:34] <AlexLatchford> Well I am unsure of exactly what owning the package gives you the benefit of
[11:34] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: that isnt at our level i dont think
[11:35] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: nothing
[11:35] <AlexLatchford> I would like to see Mozilla Bugs as the Bug Contact at least
[11:35] <gnomefreak> AlexLatchford: mark own ubuntu so he kind of own all packages
[11:35] <AlexLatchford> cool
[11:35] <dfarning> I'll work on getting the bugs assigned
[11:35] <AlexLatchford> yeah, this needs to be done
[11:35] <gnomefreak> cool
[11:35] <AlexLatchford> I got another 200 emails again
[11:35] <gnomefreak> 338
[11:36] <gnomefreak> :(
[11:36] <asac> dfarning: what do you mean by getting bugs assigned?
[11:36] <asac> ah sorry :)
[11:36] <asac> missed the topic switch
[11:36] <dfarning> IT is a pita becuase all of the lp folks are working on the lp beta'(
[11:36] <AlexLatchford> changing them from being assigned to Mozilla Team to the Mozilla Bugs
[11:36] <dfarning> yes
[11:36] <dfarning> and assign tb bugs to -bugs
[11:36] <AlexLatchford> so it doesnt email bug changes out to all the Mozilla Team members
[11:36] <asac> AlexLatchford: can't you setup a mail filter?
[11:37] <asac> and as soon as lp members have some time
[11:37] <asac> they can run an update?
[11:37] <AlexLatchford> mail filter?
[11:37] <asac> yes
[11:37] <dfarning> AlexLatchford, right
[11:37] <asac> you can filter X-Launchpad-Bug: header
[11:37] <asac> should be easy to setup
[11:37] <asac> e.g.
[11:37] <dfarning> lp team is overall being very help. I don't want to push them
[11:37] <AlexLatchford> oh right okay, that would be a temporary fix
[11:37] <asac> X-Launchpad-Bug: distribution=ubuntu; sourcepackage=firefox; component=main;
[11:37] <asac>         status=Needs Info; importance=Wishlist; assignee=mozillateam;
[11:38] <asac> you can filter what you want out of this
[11:38] <asac> e.g. sort by package, by status, by importance, by assignee
[11:38] <AlexLatchford> well it doesn;t bother me too much
[11:38] <AlexLatchford> but I would prefer it to be fixed, I will try the filter for now though
[11:38] <gnomefreak> ok move on. we have 2 more topics to go than asac can get moving ;)
[11:38] <dfarning> next
[11:38] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Faster response time for security update
[11:38] <Moot2> New topic:  Faster response time for security update
[11:39] <poningru> ok so
[11:39] <asac> i try my best and work with martin get things up in time. i am member of mozilla security group so i usually get notification in time
[11:39] <gnomefreak> this im sure will be worked out but we are a new team and trying to do alot of things
[11:39] <poningru> it seems that ubuntu packages are only updated once the firefox security point release actually comes out
[11:40] <dfarning> I think kees was just overworked
[11:40] <asac> poningru: yes ... thats common procedure
[11:40] <dfarning> should improve now:)
[11:40] <poningru> what we can probably do is package the rc spins and test that ourselves
[11:40] <asac> running rc preview packages is good to detect any QA problems up-front
[11:40] <asac> so this is a good thing to have.
[11:41] <asac> at best some member of our team can do this on a regular basis?
[11:41] <poningru> yeah I would love to do this
[11:41] <poningru> as soon as I can figure out packaging well enough
[11:41] <poningru> still figuring out all the ins and outs
[11:41] <asac> i explained a bit to gnomefreak already ... should be in irc logs already ;)
[11:42] <poningru> hehe
[11:42] <dfarning> I log were very good I package fx last week bases on them
[11:42] <asac> i can assist you ... if you promise to carry know how to other members as well ... at best setting up some introduction pages in wiki too.
[11:42] <asac> :)
[11:42] <dfarning> I would like to set up some semi formal session on packaging so we are not always bugging asac
[11:43] <asac> yes ... thats good
[11:43] <asac> we can arrange some time :)
[11:43] <dfarning> he need tim to work on the technical stuff
[11:43] <poningru> tim?
[11:43] <dfarning> time
[11:43] <gnomefreak> time
[11:43] <poningru> oh
[11:43] <poningru> lol
[11:43] <poningru> I was thinking s/he/we
[11:44] <gnomefreak> i wasnt here is that done?
[11:44] <gnomefreak> we have one more i wouold like asac output on
[11:44] <dfarning> we will set up semi formal learning time slots to better ulitize our expert resources
[11:44] <dfarning> next
[11:44] <asac> :) well phrased :)
[11:45] <gnomefreak> [topic]  renaming packages
[11:45] <Moot2> New topic:  renaming packages
[11:45] <gnomefreak> ok renaming mozilla-thunderbird to thunderbird
[11:45] <asac> ah ... ok renaming packages is always a pita ... and hardly worth the efford.
[11:45] <asac> i see that its inconsitent atm
[11:45] <gnomefreak> and mozilla-firefox to just firefox
[11:45] <asac> but would like to defer that to post feisty
[11:45] <poningru> whats the reason?
[11:45] <gnomefreak> although i think we dropped mozilla-firefox transitinal package
[11:46] <asac> the reason firefox was renamed is that debian renamed both, but nobody was here to do the proper thunderbird transition
[11:46] <AlexLatchford> So if you are going to follow with Thunderbird it will be in Feisty+1
[11:46] <AlexLatchford> ?
[11:46] <AlexLatchford> s/you/we/
[11:46] <gnomefreak> most liekly
[11:46] <asac> thats why we are at the current state
[11:46] <AlexLatchford> ish
[11:46] <dfarning> there is not consistant name because of renaming that occured before the branking agreement
[11:46] <poningru> ah ic
[11:46] <gnomefreak> likely
[11:46] <asac> we currently work with mozilla to clarify if they want mozilla- prefix or not
[11:47] <AlexLatchford> hmm okay, just seems like at the moment there are a load of naming inconsistencies, flash also being a major problem
[11:47] <gnomefreak> asac: dfarning is this something to look forward to for feisty+1?
[11:47] <dfarning> defer to feisty+1
[11:47] <AlexLatchford> sounds good to me
[11:47] <dfarning> bug catchup more important for now
[11:47] <AlexLatchford> agreed
[11:47] <asac> probably when upgrading to 2.0 we can change name
[11:48] <AlexLatchford> seems sensible
[11:48] <asac> for now it matters that we build tbird with official branding.
[11:48] <gnomefreak> Faster response time for security update  is the bug that i brought that up about
[11:48] <gnomefreak> hmmmmmmm
[11:48] <poningru> quick offtopic: is anyone building ff <IP_ADDRESS> r4?
[11:48] <gnomefreak> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/70937
[11:48] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 70937 in mozilla-thunderbird "Package "mozilla-thunderbird" should be renamed to "thunderbird"" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[11:48] <gnomefreak> poningru: i have it on to do list
[11:48] <poningru> gnomefreak: I wanna help
[11:49] <asac> ok ... is that it?
[11:49] <gnomefreak> [topic]  Any other matters that we missed or needs to be discussed?
[11:49] <Moot2> New topic:  Any other matters that we missed or needs to be discussed?
[11:49] <AlexLatchford> none from me
[11:50] <dfarning> i am satisified
[11:50] <gnomefreak> asac: go go go :)
[11:50] <gnomefreak> #endmeeting
[11:50] <Moot2> Meeting finished at 23:50.
[11:50] <asac> cu all!
[11:50] <AlexLatchford> buh bye
[11:50] <gnomefreak> bye :)
[11:50] <dfarning> meet again in 2 weeks
[11:50] <gnomefreak> ok someone needs to figure out the bot stuff now
[11:50] <AndrewWilliams> Meeting log can be found at: http://rimmer.incognitus.net/~mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.20070219_2232.html, and full irc log at: http://rimmer.incognitus.net/~mootbot/ubuntu-meeting.log.20070219_2232.html
[11:50] <dfarning> thank for all your hard work
[11:51] <gnomefreak> is that another bot?
[11:51] <poningru> awesome
[11:52] <AlexLatchford> lol gnomefreak no, he is the person commanding the bot
[11:52] <gnomefreak> ah
[11:52] <AlexLatchford> gnomefreak: if you want I will help chair the next meeting?
[11:52] <gnomefreak> thats fine
[11:52] <gnomefreak> who wants to clean the wiki?
[11:52] <AlexLatchford> leave it up for now
[11:52] <gnomefreak> k
[11:52] <AlexLatchford> i need to make the minutes


[08:01] <mrevell> Hello!
[08:03] <oier_> hi, I am not sure if I am on the correct channel. I have a question regarding translators credit.
[08:04] <oier_> If I set a translatable string in my app (in the about diago) as"translators-credit", does Launchpad automatically translate that string with the translators? or does each translator have to append its name there?
[09:04] <poolie> sladen, hi
[09:05] <sladen> poolie: hello
[09:05] <sladen> poolie: wgrant appears to have tracked it down to twisted-web
[09:05] <poolie> wgrant and robert worked out the underlying cause of broken mime types, and it's clearly not the proxy
[09:06] <poolie> wondered why you marked the twisted thing incomplete
[09:07] <sladen> poolie: because I don't know the exact line-number ... if other people have more information, I'm sure it's not quite so incomplete
[09:41] <poolie> sladen, the exact line number?
[09:42] <sladen> poolie: if the problem is completely identified, I'm happy to change it to Triaged :-)  At the time of adding it, I wasn't in a position to know /if/ it had been suitably identified
[09:42] <poolie> to me 'incomplete' means "this bug can't progress unless it gets more information"
[09:44] <sladen> poolie: same here.
[09:45] <sladen> poolie: I don't think there's /quite/ enough information on the bug report for a random developer to pick it up and understand the problem completely w.r.t specifically to twisted-web
[09:46] <poolie> there is
[09:46] <poolie> i'll file an upstream report
[09:47] <sladen> poolie: I don't think one could provide any more information to the LP team, but it's possible that the LP team may need to provide more information to enable tackling the twisted element
[09:47] <sladen> poolie: yup
[10:18] <esteve> hi all, I'm seeing errors like this when submitting comments to merge proposals:
[10:18] <esteve> "Server error, please contact an administrator. OOPS ID:OOPS-2019J48"
[10:19] <esteve> thought the feedback may be useful to you
[10:19] <poolie> hi esteve
[10:21] <poolie> oops
[10:22] <poolie> esteve, we're working on it
[10:22] <esteve> I'm also getting logged out randomly
[10:22] <esteve> for example, just claimed a merge review and got this:
[10:22] <esteve> "Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication."
[10:25] <poolie> yep
[10:31] <poolie> esteve, if you log in again it should be ok
[10:32] <esteve> poolie: I tried and got an "Already logged in" message
[10:32] <esteve> poolie: will logout and log in
[10:33] <wgrant> esteve: 5 minutes ago it would have done that. Now you should really be logged out.
[10:33] <wgrant> And can log in again.
[10:33] <esteve> wgrant: ok, thanks!
[10:34] <poolie> wgrant the actual oops he got is a bit interesting
[10:34] <poolie> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=2019J48
[10:34] <poolie> not totally obvious to me that that is the same cause
[10:35] <wgrant> poolie: Oh, has it synced?
[10:35] <wgrant> I synced it to my ~ manually.
[10:35] <wgrant> You'll see the request is anonymous.
[10:35] <wgrant> So it used the slave store.
[10:35] <wgrant> Where the comment didn't exist yet.
[10:35] <poolie> of course
[10:36] <wgrant> Now, normally I'd expect an SQLObjectNotFoundError to cause it to retry with the master, but apparently not this time..
[10:36] <wgrant> Maybe it doesn't do that on the webservice.
[11:06] <aboudreault> why my ticket disappear
[11:08] <aboudreault> ha ok.. my session was expired. and the bug is a security one.
[11:11] <commandoline> Hello, does anyone know what a normal time is for translation imports from branches to stay on 'Needs Review'? (It's the first import since a new directory structure.)
[11:13] <maxb> Somewhat variable, I think
[11:13] <maxb> I don't really know much about the translations side of LP, though
[11:13] <maxb> danilos: ?
[11:20] <danilos> commandoline, they usually do that for only a few hours (tops, sometimes mere minutes), but if there's an issue, they stay like that forever until someone reviews them manually (which we do once a day for .pots, never unless asked for for translations themselves)
[11:22] <commandoline> ok, I'll just wait some more time then first.
[11:22] <commandoline> thanks danilos and maxb
[11:47] <mwhudson> <insert whine about ppa queue>
[11:48] <bigjools> it's a bit like people who, sat in traffic, moan about it.
[11:49] <smspillaz> when you could just as quickly cycle :)
[11:51] <wgrant> mwhudson: Some builders have just returned.
[11:51] <wgrant> With luck the rest will come back soon.
[11:51] <mwhudson> wgrant: oh cool
[11:52] <maxb> At least it's only a queue of hours :-)
[11:52] <wgrant> Oh, 10 more have come back in the last 5 minutes.
[11:53] <mwhudson> it's just amazing how you come to depend on/expect packages building in a few minutes
[11:53] <wgrant> Yes :(
[11:54] <bigjools> the build farm is quite popular
[12:35] <aquarius> in the code browser, the "download file" link for a particular file looks like this: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sil/+junk/save-into-ubuntu-one/download/head:/saveintoubuntuone-20110712102419-zvja3yvh0fi0zmj3-3/Save%20into%20Ubuntu%20One
[12:36] <aquarius> if I push a new version of the branch that that file's in (with a new version of that file), will that download link still fetch the old version?
[12:36] <aquarius> and if so, is it possible to get a "download file" link which always gets the most recent version of that file?
[12:36] <aquarius> I note that the URL has "head:" in it, but it's also got a date...
[12:47] <james_w> aquarius, that url will download the latest version of that file
[12:47] <james_w> it will likely break if the file is renamed though
[12:47] <aquarius> james_w, always? even if I push newer versions? Nice
[12:47] <james_w> (though it may work, I don't know if the last segment is ignored)
[12:48] <aquarius> yeah, I'm not worried about it breaking on renames :)
[12:48] <james_w> yeah, you need to replace head: if you want a specific revision
[12:48] <aquarius> what's the<PHONE_NUMBER>2419-zvja3yvh0fi0zmj3-3 bit for then?
[12:48] <aquarius> I mean, I believe you, I'm just curious :)
[12:49] <james_w> it's part of the file id
[12:49] <james_w> so it's associated with the file rather than the revision
[12:50] <aquarius> ah! cool :)
[12:50] <james_w> it's an arbitrary random-ish string generated when bzr starts tracking the file
[12:50] <james_w> it survives renames, but given that the URL has the filename at the end I don't know if it will work
[14:30] <sinzui> jcsackett, do you have time to mumble?
[14:31] <jcsackett> sinzui: yes, though we may have some fun getting that work. my computer is haunted today.
[16:11] <CasW> I came to use (Python) launchpadlib, but I can't seem to find documentation except for that getting started-guide
[17:05] <cgregan> Hello Launchpad Team...my a LP team of mine seems to have vanished.....anything known to be going on with LP today?
[17:06] <cgregan> wow awesome english to boot on this one........."A LP team of mine................
[18:58] <Darxus> I just got some "failed to upload" and ".changes rejected" emails for daily builds that I haven't touched in a while and which built and uploaded successfully 11 hours ago.  I can safely ignore those, right?
[19:09] <maxb> Darxus: Most likely means that they got triggered by a change to a component branch which wasn't included in the version expression in the recipe, so the new builds clashed with the existing version string
[19:10] <Darxus> Weird.
[19:12] <Darxus> It was from https://code.launchpad.net/~spamassassin/+recipe/spamassassin-daily
[19:13] <Darxus> The last two automated attempts to sync lp:spamassassin, which is basically all that it builds, crashed.
[19:13] <Darxus> sqlite3.OperationalError: database is locked
[19:48] <maxb> Darxus: You would get a "failed to upload" if you updated lp:~spamassassin/+junk/spamassassin-pkgrules, and lp:spamassassin had not also been updated meanwhile
[19:49] <maxb> the database is locked thing is unfortunately a bug whenever two imports from the same svn repository happen on the same importd machine simultaneously
[19:58] <Darxus> I suspected something like that (known bug).  Do you know if there's actually a bug open for it?
[19:59] <Darxus> (I didn't update lp:~spamassassin/+junk/spamassassin-pkgrules.)
[19:59] <maxb> Not sure how the new builds got triggered, then
[20:00] <Darxus> Yeah, it's weird.
[20:01] <Darxus> I wish there was a way to get it to only trigger a build if something, say, not in the rules or rulesrc directories of that svn repo got modified.  Because they aren't included in the package.
[20:01] <Darxus> And they're most of the changes.
[20:02] <maxb> That's a bit advanced
[20:02] <maxb> Though, nothing stops you setting it to manual build only, and triggering the build as required - possibly via an external cronjob
[20:05] <Darxus> Not worth the complexity of an external cron job.
[20:05] <Darxus> It works just fine the way it is.  It just builds more often than it needs to, and my server nags me to upgrade it unnecessarily often (every day) :)
[21:03] <CasW> I want to register a bug using (python-)launchpadlib, but I can't seem to find out how
[21:04] <CasW> Anyone here with tips?
[21:05] <ivoks> any known issues with launchpad.net? when i login, i get different username, and it asks me to pick a password
[21:19] <lifeless> ivoks: hi, we reset the session database overnight
[21:19] <ivoks> i think my got screwed
[21:19] <lifeless> ivoks: make sure you're logged into login.launchpad.net with your normal account
[21:20] <ivoks> well, i am
[21:20] <ivoks> as in correct email and correct name
[21:20] <lifeless> I'll see if I can grab someone that can poke at the relevant bits
[21:20] <ivoks> ok, thanks
[21:22] <CasW> Is there a way to register bugs with launchpadlib?
[21:22] <CasW> (Or does anyone here know a room where I can find the devs?)
[21:22] <mbarnett> ivoks: lifeless: forgive my distraction for the next couple minutes.  Just finishing up a call.
[21:23] <lifeless> CasW: have you seen the api doc? https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html
[21:23] <CasW> Yeah, I have, but I couldn't find it there
[21:23] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html#bugs
[21:24] <CasW> Hmm :P
[21:24] <CasW> Thanks
[22:32] <poolie> is lp repeatedly logging me out?
[22:32] <poolie> s//why is
[22:34] <lifeless> it shouldn't be
[22:35] <lifeless> the reset was a one off
[22:35] <poolie> that's 3 times this morning
[22:35] <lifeless> new tabs?
[22:38] <poolie> maybe that was it, but i thought i logged in in the first window
[22:38] <poolie> nm for now
[23:55] <Noldorin> does LP automatically mark a LP bug as fixed when you do bzr commit --fixes lp:x ?
[23:55] <TheEvilPhoenix> Noldorin:  you could test :p
[23:55] <TheEvilPhoenix> but i'll defer to the experts for thhe answeer
[23:55] <TheEvilPhoenix> bah keyboard lag, sorry
[23:56] <Noldorin> TheEvilPhoenix, it seems like the answer is no, but perhaps it's just the LP server taking its time :-P
[23:56] <TheEvilPhoenix> :P
[23:56] <Noldorin> TheEvilPhoenix, an official answer would be nice...thanks anyway :-)


[15:29] <KM4QKW> I am really upset that U17 wasnt named ZEBRA
[15:29] <Pici> :(
[15:30] <KM4QKW> ive been on U! since Breezy Badger and this is a literal slap in the face
[15:30] <Pici> zebras are too normal
[15:30] <KM4QKW> i was there for all the bugs, the broadcom firmware battle, the Amazon spyware,,,,and now....my beloved OS is named after a RAT
[15:31] <KM4QKW> a *&^%#ing MEADOW RAT
[15:31] <KM4QKW> Zimababwe Zulu