[05:01] <GirlyGirl> Morning
[05:08] <daftykins> hi
[05:12] <daftykins> GirlyGirl: early one for you!
[05:12] <GirlyGirl> daftykins: Yup
[05:12] <GirlyGirl> daftykins: You too
[05:13] <daftykins> i wish
[05:13] <daftykins> late unfortunately :S
[05:26] <knightwise> morning everyone
[05:27] <daftykins> \o
[05:27] <daftykins> ahoyhoy
[05:45] <knightwise> Does anyone know any good programs in linux to manage your rss feed ?
[05:45] <knightwise> as in : Make my own podcast feed
[05:55] <nigelb> knightwise: I'm guessing popey might know ;)
[05:56] <GirlyGirl> knightwise: listgarden
[05:56] <knightwise> thanx :)
[05:56] <knightwise> i'm givin it a google
[05:57] <GirlyGirl> knightwise: Why not a bing .. sounds better
[05:57] <knightwise> Lol :)
[06:26] <knightwise> hahahaha :) I haz my OSX Virtual machine purring along quite nicely :)
[06:39] <daftykins> oh yeah not run mine in a while
[06:39] <knightwise> its pretty spiffy
[06:39] <daftykins> shame about the OS
[06:39] <daftykins> ;)
[06:39] <knightwise> got them workin headless using vmware and stuff :) pretty nifty
[06:44] <knightwise> Going to see if I can build a headless box with 2 or 3 of those vm's on there and ship it off to a friends house
[06:44] <knightwise> would be great to use it for remote backups and more
[06:48] <daftykins> =]
[06:50] <knightwise> and that vboxmanage command does pack some punch :
[06:54] <knightwise> Ps : i wrote up an article on the Virtualisation thing http://www.knightwise.com/blog/technology/872-sliders-resort-to-running-osx-in-a-vm
[07:41] <ali1234> knightwise: i might have a go at that later today
[07:43] <diplo> Morning all
[08:18] <knightwise> morning diplo
[08:22] <knightwise> Grrr
[08:22] <knightwise> Gpodder stopped working from the command line cuz of some stupid locale settings
[08:23] <czajkowski> mrevell: darling dearest did you get people on friday for your thingymebobby
[08:23] <rml_home> can anyone point me towards a site that shows how to direct all my network traffic through my vpn connection?  My google fu is failing
[08:23] <mrevell> czajkowski, I did not, no. Thanks for asking. I ended up getting tied up with other things, so I didn't manage to do put much time into recruiting people for it.
[08:24] <mrevell> czajkowski, I think we'll have a working mock-up soon so I'll just wait to test that.
[08:24] <czajkowski> mrevell: wanna do it now
[08:24] <czajkowski> am free and tis early and noboyd is in
[08:24] <mrevell> czajkowski, Yeah, why not? :) Cheers. I'll email you the slides.
[08:25] <czajkowski> mrevell: coolio
[08:25] <czajkowski> skype ?
[08:26] <bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
[08:31] <knightwise> hmm
[08:31] <knightwise> i haz made bubu
[08:31] <knightwise> i has installed lxde on remote machine
[08:31] <knightwise> now machine way to slow
[08:31] <knightwise> quiestion is : In russia .. how to kill lxde off system
[08:33] <JamesTait> Happy Monday, all!
[08:36] <bigcalm> White Stripes, JamesTait
[08:37] <knightwise> small question. If i want my Ubuntu to boot into command line only (for speed issues) where do i change that setting ?
[08:38] <daftykins> you need to set a default runlevel
[08:38] <daftykins> you could duplicate the boot entry in GRUB config and have one boot as runlevel 0 or something
[08:38] <daftykins> although i do recall ubuntu doesn't use runlevels as other distros do
[08:39] <knightwise> daftykins: whats the correct one (no single user mode , system still needs to be accesable via sftp and stuff)
[08:39] <daftykins> nope i've convinced myself out of that one XD
[08:39] <daftykins> i'm too newb i'm afraid! total guess that was
[08:42] <ali1234> just disable lightdm from starting automatically
[08:43] <popey> Morning all
[08:43] <freckle> on unity if I have something maximised in the background and something not maximised in the foreground how do I minimize the background app without having to first select it?
[08:43] <knightwise> popey: !
[08:44] <ali1234> freckle: you can't
[08:44] <freckle> ali1234: huh? how is the productive?
[08:44] <ali1234> it isn't
[08:44] <ali1234> unity sucks
[08:44] <freckle> ?
[08:44] <freckle> on 11.10 can you ditch unity?#
[08:45] <ali1234> sure
[08:45] <gord> its one tiny extra click, i wouldn't say its the most unproductive thing in the world
[08:45] <ali1234> you can use gnome-shell, or gnome-fallback, or kde, or xfce
[08:45] <ali1234> gord: that one tiny extra click involves looking around on the app for somewhere safe to click, else you make it do something you don't want
[08:45] <czajkowski> that was fun
[08:46]  * czajkowski hugs mrevell
[08:46] <gord> well no, you can click the launcher
[08:46] <freckle> gord: the rest of the world tries get rid of extra clicks.. unity makes them a feature
[08:46] <gord> measuring how productive UI's are by counting clicks is maybe the worst statistical measurement you can do
[08:46] <ali1234> gord: so it's a move to the left, wait for launcher, find the right icon for the app, then click it
[08:47] <ali1234> gord: well you're the one saying "it's only 1 click" :)
[08:47] <gord> if you happen to want to do it that way, or you can just click on the application if its visible, or you can alt tab to it
[08:47] <ali1234> the real problem is that you have to hunt around for the icon, or a safe spot
[08:47] <ali1234> it's not about clicks, it's abut having to hunt around for stuff
[08:47] <ali1234> alt-tab is also a fail, i have to find the right icon that is associated with the app
[08:47] <ali1234> all these things involve a lookup in my brain
[08:48] <ali1234> i can't just "minimize this window without caring what it is"
[08:49] <ali1234> so now i have to 1. figure out what app the window belongs to. 2. figure out if it is safe to click 3. if it isn't, try to remember what it's icon looks like  and then hunt for it in alt tab or launcher
[08:49] <ali1234> vs the old method "just click the minimize button"
[08:50] <daftykins> OS roulette
[08:51] <bigcalm> I've only just started trying out Unity on my laptop. I don't care how late I am to the game. Doesn't seem to be a very productive interface to me. Having everything maximised is not optimal
[08:53] <czajkowski> I love it that way
[08:53] <bigcalm> Not sure how that will work with 3 monitors on my desktop though
[08:53] <ali1234> bigcalm: extremely badly
[08:54] <bigcalm> Looks like I will keep Unity away from my workstation then :)
[08:54] <ali1234> i recommend you to try it anyway
[08:54] <ali1234> just to see how bad it is
[08:54] <bigcalm> Heh
[08:54] <ali1234> besides, it's still better than *everything else*
[08:55] <bigcalm> I'll try, but not sure it'll work having a unified menu system
[08:55] <knightwise> anyone know how you can reconfigure your locale settings  ? Gpodder wont run anymore from the command line
[08:56] <daftykins> dpkg-reconfigure locales ?
[08:56] <daftykins> oh wrong approach maybe
[09:02] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:02] <hagisbasheruk> :) morning brobostigon
[09:03] <brobostigon> morning hagisbasheruk :)
[09:03] <bigcalm> Morning
[09:03] <daftykins> ohayo gozaimasu!
[09:04] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm and daftykins :)
[09:04] <daftykins> ^_^
[09:04] <bigcalm> I love that Japanese greeting. Sounds like one is sneezing
[09:04] <daftykins> hehehe
[09:04] <knightwise> Strange, this is the error i get even after i run dpkg-reconfigure locale http://pastebin.com/Ap9RDfAS  (when i run gpodder from the command line)
[09:05] <brobostigon> interesting, i just found a domain setting on my router, so presumably, i could apply a domain, to the internal network.
[09:06] <daftykins> sounds odd
[09:07] <brobostigon> odd?
[09:07] <daftykins> yarr
[09:07] <brobostigon> why?
[09:07] <daftykins> just not the usual way they work of course :)
[09:08] <brobostigon> very true, i thought it weird also, but it is there.
[09:10] <daftykins> i'd do that with hosts file configs
[09:10] <brobostigon> good point, yes.
[09:34] <knightwise> hey guyz , when i start up Gpodder from the command line , i get the following error http://pastebin.com/K0bnarNV
[09:34] <knightwise> any idea how i can set those locale settings straight ?
[09:45] <Laney> happy one year since maverick
[09:48] <BigRedS> Should the mysql client that ships with 5.1 be able to connect to mysql 5.0?
[10:03] <davmor2> morning all
[10:04] <gord> mornin'
[10:04] <davmor2> morning gord
[10:04] <gord> davmor2, rather late in today aren't we? ;)
[10:05] <davmor2> gord: my hours of work are 11:00 → 20:00 to tie in with the bulk of my team
[10:06] <gord> davmor2, all US based?
[10:08] <davmor2> gord: some in Europe but my boss was originally in US based and it was so we had some overlap.  Now in the new team the one guy that can help me the most is Argentinian based  so isn't on till midday-ish
[10:19] <oimon>  how can the price of kindle books be justified when they are comparable to *hardback* prices?
[10:19] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:19]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 do not mention the rugby
[10:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: Ireland to wales wt...
[10:20] <davmor2> czajkowski: :P
[10:20] <czajkowski> davmor2: I'm warning you
[10:21] <gord> oimon, i don't think they are trying to justify prices, the market decides and the market has up to now said that its an okay price
[10:21] <oimon> gord: are early adopters generally suckers?
[10:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: I'm over here dancing a jig that my twitter feed will no longer be full of tweets about Irelands score any more :P
[10:21] <gord> oimon, early adopters? the kindle has been around for years
[10:22] <czajkowski>  /ignore davmor2
[10:22] <czajkowski> davmor2: 2 more weeks of RWC :)
[10:22] <gord> kindle is waaaaay past the early adopter period, its hugely successful
[10:22] <oimon> in the grand scheme of things, people with ebook readers vs other people is avery small part of the pop
[10:23] <davmor2> oimon: kindle sales out sell paper now I'd hardly say that was the case
[10:23]  * Laney was just considering trying to snag a new kindle in orlando
[10:23] <davmor2> czajkowski: I know but it won't have the same twitter inpact :D
[10:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: here have a hug I know you're upset
[10:24]  * czajkowski pours water on davmor2
[10:24] <czajkowski> brat
[10:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: hopefully while I'm hugging you cause you'll get as wet :P
[10:25] <oimon> davmor2: where did you get that statistic?
[10:25] <davmor2> oimon: bbc news, cnn news, the whole of the T'interwebz reported it
[10:25] <oimon> [citation needed]
[10:26] <davmor2> oimon: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/kindle_e-books_now_outselling_all_paper_books_on_a.php
[10:26] <davmor2> for one
[10:27] <oimon> i wonder if "sold" ebooks includes the free ones?
[10:27] <davmor2> oimon: if you type in ebooks out sell paper books there are about 20 pages of it though :)
[10:28] <oimon> ah free ones are excluded
[10:28] <davmor2> oimon: In which case it's left them way behind
[10:30] <davmor2> oimon: My wife gets really cheap books off of amazon for her kindle and it's the books she wants,  I think it depends on the manufacturer as much as amazon as it's the publisher that sets the price as much as it is amazon
[10:31] <davmor2> oimon: so to be fair I think you'll find the kindle isn't so much flash in the pan or small fry as you think
[10:32] <oimon> i was hoping that the price of ebooks was artificially high and would come down :(
[10:32] <oimon> it seems that everyone is buying them though
[10:32] <oimon> as you point out
[10:32] <oimon> £10 for ebook, 10.72 for hardback :-\
[10:32] <selinuxium> popey, How did you get on with the Android Joggler install?
[10:33] <popey> its okay. has some issues
[10:33] <davmor2> oimon: yeap but is there a paperback price available what you'll find is the paperback price sets the kindle price too
[10:33] <selinuxium> popey, I couldn't even get it to fire up.. Think all my USB drives are not compatible..
[10:33] <popey> how did you write it?
[10:34] <davmor2> oimon: it's so the publisher makes as much
[10:34] <oimon> davmor2: and the govt..
[10:34] <oimon> VAT on ebooks
[10:39] <czajkowski> whoo release party thursday
[10:39] <czajkowski> selinuxium: still coming
[10:42] <selinuxium> czajkowski, Hopefully :)
[10:42] <davmor2> czajkowski: I'm still gonna try too just depends how our releases are going
[10:42] <Monsterwizard> all the best computer scientists were maths grads :P
[10:43]  * popey wonders if its safe to follow czajkowski on twitter again
[10:44] <oimon> popey: are your g+ exactly the same as tweets now? i.e. can one unfollow on twitter ?
[10:44] <davmor2> popey: apparently not there are still 2 weeks left, however Ireland suck and got beaten by a new welsh team so who knows .....  /me wait for the plume of smoke to erupt from czajkowski
[10:44] <oimon> Monsterwizard: i did joint honours :P
[10:45] <Monsterwizard> hmm
[10:46] <popey> oimon: not always, no
[10:46] <oimon> had a face-off yesterday at the in-laws between a ipad / touchpad and galaxy tab 10.1
[10:46] <popey> who won?
[10:47] <gord> how do you even do a face-off? like, speed tests?
[10:48] <gord> or just throw them at one and other and see which breaks first?
[10:48] <gordonjcp> gord: get a screwdriver under the bezel, see how long it takes to pull the face off
[10:48] <popey> heh
[10:49] <gordonjcp> the ones on the galaxy tab are glued down really well
[10:49] <czajkowski> popey: yeah pretty much
[10:49] <czajkowski> wont be ranting and raving any more
[10:49] <gordonjcp> the ipad uses the lightest, thinnest glue ever, but you need a special tool to get the cap off the bottle
[10:59] <oimon> the ipad had the best games, the galaxy had the best screen , the touchpad was the cheapest
[10:59] <oimon> galaxy has an interesting form factor, slightly longer and thinner
[11:00] <hagisbasheruk> touchpad is nice with uberkernel and tweeks
[11:00] <oimon> webos got special mention for it's cards multitasking
[11:00] <davmor2> czajkowski: popey she is lying she will always rant and rave on twitter it just won't be about the rugby anymore
[11:00] <oimon> ipad failed on multitask
[11:02] <hagisbasheruk> so who owns the touchpad
[11:03]  * czajkowski kicks davmor2 oi
[11:03] <oimon> hagisbasheruk: moi
[11:04] <davmor2> popey: ^ see you know it's true when she gets all offensive :D
[11:04] <hagisbasheruk> Android cm7 release soon oimon :)
[11:05] <davmor2> oimon: how you getting on with it now?
[11:05] <bigcalm> 7.1 was released this morning. That was a very long time from 7.1rc1
[11:05] <oimon> davmor2: i like it, with more apps would be great.
[11:05] <hagisbasheruk> on touchpad bigcalm ?
[11:06] <bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: no, in general
[11:06] <hagisbasheruk> have you tweeked the hell out of it via preware oimon
[11:06] <oimon> bigcalm: how do you go about upgrading CM 7.0.x to 7.1? straightforward or destrcutive?
[11:06] <bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: I only care about my own Nexus One ;)
[11:06] <hagisbasheruk> :)
[11:06] <oimon> hagisbasheruk: only as much as i need to. a couple of patches is all i added
[11:07] <bigcalm> oimon: used ROM Manager (ClockworkMod) and it 'just worked' (tm)
[11:07] <popey> oimon: how did the ipad fail on multitask?
[11:07] <hagisbasheruk> fast card switching patch is a must oimon :)
[11:07] <selinuxium> popey, sorry, missed your response.... I used dd
[11:07] <bigcalm> oimon: don't know about 7.0.x, I went from 7.1rc1
[11:08] <bigcalm> But it will be just as easy I'm sure
[11:08] <popey> selinuxium: odd, I did that too, you did dd to /dev/sdb and not /dev/sdb1 didnt you?
[11:08] <oimon> popey: the ipad v1 owner told me it was lame and didn't really multitask properly , so i took his word for it
[11:09] <selinuxium> popey, yup, I believe so... I will give it another go..
[11:09] <bigcalm> Why has dabs.com recently started spamming me again?
[11:09] <popey> oimon: thats hardly a test
[11:09] <hagisbasheruk> i look forward to no chroot ubuntu on touchpad as i hate they way the devs have implamented using the webos onscreen keyboard in ubuntu
[11:10] <diplo> any of you guys got the HTC Desire ?
[11:10] <oimon> popey: no, but he forfeited the round optionally :)
[11:10] <oimon> diplo: i have it
[11:10] <popey> has he actually _used_ the device?
[11:10] <popey> :D
[11:10] <oimon> popey: all the time, plays a lot of games it seems
[11:10] <oimon> he is making a game too
[11:11] <mfraz74> Am I the only one who can't get the new Ubuntu countdown banner to work?
[11:12] <popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/countdown that one?
[11:12] <mfraz74> popey: yes that one, it saying 8 days to go
[11:13] <hagisbasheruk> oh i hope they dump that stupid new desktop
[11:13] <czajkowski> seen someone say that in -website a few hrs ago
[11:13] <popey> hagisbasheruk: unity?
[11:13] <bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: Unity?
[11:13] <hagisbasheruk> yup it sux
[11:13] <mfraz74> plus they're all showing the same version
[11:13] <bigcalm> hagisbasheruk: bad luck :)
[11:14] <popey> other desktops are available
[11:14] <hagisbasheruk> i know but unity should not be standard
[11:14] <mfraz74> like KDE, XFCE and whichever one Lubuntu uses
[11:14] <popey> LXDE
[11:14] <popey> hagisbasheruk: why?
[11:14] <hagisbasheruk> i like lxde :)
[11:15]  * oimon is getting impatient wating to see what elementary will look like
[11:15] <hagisbasheruk> i am liking webos gui , ubuntu/linux should clone that
[11:15] <selinuxium> Minecraft for android goodness... https://market.android.com/details?id=com.mojang.minecraftpe&feature=more_from_developer
[11:16] <selinuxium> popey, what issues did you have with the android install? was the market available?
[11:16] <popey> not properly, no
[11:16] <popey> it wouldnt sync gmail
[11:17] <popey> beeb player wouldnt play audio
[11:17] <popey> enough issues to make it unusable
[11:17] <gord> hehe beep
[11:17] <gord> forgot that even existed
[11:18] <bigcalm> popey: Xalior maybe able to help you
[11:20] <AlanBell> !ping
[11:20] <popey> !pong
[11:20] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: boo
[11:20] <czajkowski> Daviey: darling dearest.......
[11:21] <popey> bah!
[11:21] <popey> have shaken co-workers can of coke
[11:21] <popey> he's taking too long to open it
[11:21] <bigcalm> HAHA
[11:21] <bigcalm> Office japes!
[11:21] <Pernig> anyone got any distro suggestions for a 486 laptop with 16MB RAM? (puppy doesn't work)
[11:21] <mfraz74> they don't work as well as the old ring pull ones did
[11:21] <popey> windows 98?
[11:21] <bigcalm> Windows 95?
[11:22] <cda0> slitaz
[11:22] <Pernig> oh, there is another complication
[11:22] <Pernig> cd drive is broken
[11:22] <cda0> door stop?
[11:22] <Pernig> haha
[11:22] <Pernig> i will give slitaz ago, heard of that one
[11:22] <Daviey> hey cztab
[11:22] <bigcalm> An old version of suse. Floppy boot, and net install
[11:22] <mfraz74> dsl?
[11:22] <popey> here we go
[11:23] <popey> ftzzzzz
[11:23] <cda0> Pernig, try tiny core too
[11:23] <popey> lfs?
[11:23] <Pernig> cda0: i'm using microcore at the moment
[11:23] <Pernig> it is running out of memory at boot
[11:23] <popey> whats it going to be used for?
[11:23] <czajkowski> Daviey: darling are you in london yet
[11:24] <davmor2> Daviey: Say no save yourself
[11:24] <bigcalm> ;)
[11:24] <Pernig> popey: text editing and maybe as a terminal to SSH into my main machine
[11:24] <popey> whats wrong with microcore?
[11:24] <Pernig> i can't get it to boot :(
[11:24] <popey> where is the main machine?
[11:25] <Pernig> i'm talking to you on it :P
[11:25] <popey> just wondering if it's worthwhile
[11:25] <popey> time and effort + power consumption
[11:25] <bigcalm> Geeks - we do it because we can
[11:25] <Pernig> probably not, but i am determined to get some use out of it!
[11:26] <Pernig> it's an awesome little machine, the battery lasts about two hours
[11:26] <Daviey> czajkowski: on the train right now \o/
[11:27] <czajkowski> Daviey: you had better have the banner with you
[11:27]  * czajkowski waits for the pause
[11:27] <czajkowski> and swearing to not come across via IRC
[11:28]  * czajkowski notes the lack of comments from Daviey
[11:29] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[11:29] <davmor2> Daviey: gets off the train and walks back home to get it
[11:30] <Daviey> cz	erk.
[11:31] <knightwise> czajkowski: would you like me to sing you an oompa loompa song ?
[11:33] <davmor2> oompa loompa dumpadedoo I've got another puzzle for you, why leave to Daviey what you can dooooo, he just a bloke and really busy toooo  or words to that effect
[11:34] <bigcalm> Listen to Absolute 80s and it'll block out the Oompa Loompa song :)
[11:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha I am listening to Absolute 80s on my dab radio and still have the oompa loompa song now :D
[11:35] <bigcalm> Ha
[11:35] <davmor2> ohhhhh chromium in oneiric plays nicely with the kindle app
[11:35]  * bigcalm fights for his right to party
[11:36] <knightwise> i think czajkowski is gonna kill us all ...
[11:36] <davmor2> knightwise: never happen she'd have no one to threaten to kill if she killed us
[11:37] <knightwise> davmor2: that would indeed put a serious opening in her daily agenda .
[11:37] <czajkowski> knightwise: NO
[11:38] <czajkowski> Daviey: !!!
[11:38] <kazade_> afternoon all
[11:38] <dwatkins> knightwise: I heared the Oompa Loompa song yesterday, coincidentally enough
[11:38] <Pernig> hi kazade
[11:38]  * dwatkins hums it
[11:38] <dwatkins> hoya
[11:39] <dwatkins> also, hiya
[11:41] <czajkowski> kazade: aloha
[11:41] <kazade> hey czajkowski
[11:41] <kazade> how's things?
[11:41] <czajkowski> kazade: good was in your place last week
[11:42] <kazade> you were?!
[11:42] <kazade> cool :D
[11:42] <kazade> no-one tells me anything :p
[11:44] <davmor2> kazade: that's cause you'd know as much as them if they did
[11:45] <kazade> heh
[11:45] <knightwise> i'll be able to pick on of these babies up for 250 euro's . Any thoughts ? http://www.anandtech.com/show/4018/asus-eeepc-1215n-ng-ion/1
[11:47] <davmor2> knightwise: it's an over sized netbook
[11:48] <gord> heh atom and ion? gonna get hot
[11:48] <gord> but it'll decode 1080p content
[11:48] <gord> if you are on linux
[11:49] <davmor2> knightwise: wait for the transformer 2 to come out and pick up the transformer for a song instead :)
[11:51] <knightwise> of COURSE i"ll be on linux gord :)
[11:51] <knightwise> allthough I AM looking to hackintosh that baby too
[11:51] <knightwise> just cuz i can
[11:51] <knightwise> (at least i hope i can)
[11:51] <knightwise> but a dual boot osx - mint would be sweet
[11:52] <knightwise> davmor2: i reviewed the transformer 1 on www.knightwise.com ... its not all that its hyped up to be
[11:52] <gord> yeah i just thought i'd specify because windows doesn't have access to the same API's :)
[11:52] <knightwise> gord :) Pretty funny .. asus new taggline should be : does less with windows
[11:56]  * oimon watches knightwise video about transformer, and notices a picture of popey on the tablet :-o
[11:56] <popey> o_O
[11:56] <oimon> http://www.knightwise.com/kwtv-screencast/848-kwtv0028-reviewing-the-asus-eeepad-transformer go to 4:54
[11:57] <knightwise> yeah .. it became an X-rated podcast about there
[11:58] <popey> i dont see it
[11:58] <oimon> top lfet
[11:58] <popey> oh, i see
[11:58] <popey> good spot!
[11:59]  * knightwise wonders if he will have to pay popey royalties now.
[11:59] <oimon> this video is too long and i'm getting hungry..why didn't you like the taransformer?
[12:00] <knightwise> cuz its not a netbook and neither a real tablet
[12:00] <knightwise> it looks and feels like a laptop
[12:00] <knightwise> but it doesnt act like a laptop
[12:00] <oimon> only when the kb is connected
[12:00] <popey> i thought it was quite nice
[12:00] <ali1234> i have not been able to determine any difference between "netbook" and "laptop"
[12:00] <popey> played with one at uupc recording
[12:00] <knightwise> popey: what did you think of it ?
[12:01] <popey> nice device
[12:01] <oimon> if i had the money to spend on a tablet, i would choose the transformer over the gal tab
[12:01] <ali1234> although i do think that convertibles are too heavy to use as tablets
[12:01] <popey> the transformer isnt thatheav
[12:01] <popey> also like that the tablet charges from the keyboard when it's docked
[12:02] <oimon> typing on a tablet touch screen is a pain
[12:02] <oimon> i think that an optional keyboard suddenly makes a tablet more useful
[12:02] <ali1234> well so is typing on a netbook
[12:02] <ali1234> typing on anything that isn't a full size proper good keyboard sucks
[12:02] <ali1234> basically anything that isn't a model M
[12:03] <popey> heh
[12:03]  * popey hugs his model m
[12:04] <ali1234> i have the minimalist lexmark version
[12:04] <ali1234> unfortunately it doesn't work properly on modern computers
[12:04] <ali1234> i don't think they supply enough current on PS/2
[12:04] <ali1234> i am currently using logitech G19
[12:04] <ali1234> and for a £100 keyboard, the key actions is ramarkably bad
[12:06] <MartijnVdS> Lexmark is used to building cheap hardware.. but keyboards don't work on expensive ink ;)
[12:06] <ali1234> lexmark built all the later model M keyboards to the exact same design, but they also made a small model with the same keys but a much smaller body
[12:07] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/keyboard1.jpg
[12:09] <popey> \o/ Altoids!
[12:16] <MooDoo> hello all
[12:34] <oimon> android users may have noticed a new option in the android market which is autochecked : show ads based on interests
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> but you can uncheck
[12:35] <oimon> yes
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> it's been there for months now
[12:35] <oimon> that's the problem
[12:35] <oimon> :)
[12:35] <oimon> only just noticed it
[12:36] <oimon> however, if it means that i don't get ads for stephen fry books every 5 seconds on the market app, then i'm all for it
[12:40] <oimon> anyone know anything about the google ebooks format?
[12:40] <oimon> read a whole article on the telegraph that didn't mention the format
[12:41] <DJones> oimon: I think they're mostly epub or pdf formats
[12:42] <DJones> http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/content.html This page only seems to mention epub & pdf
[12:42] <oimon> DJones: does epub allow drm?
[12:42] <dwatkins> http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/content.html yeah, as DJones says
[12:42] <DJones> yes it does (it seems from that page)
[12:43] <oimon> ah, didn't know that
[12:44] <oimon> but epub doesn't work on kindle AFAIK
[12:45] <DJones> correct
[12:45] <Azelphur> does <IP_ADDRESS> have a bandwith limit?
[12:45] <DJones> Its the one major format thats missing
[12:45] <oimon> and you can't convert DRM laden epub
[12:46] <Azelphur> I want to stream a 320x240 display down it, so 320x240 = 76800 * 3 (3 bytes per pixel) = 230400 / 1024 = 225KB per frame, call it 10 FPS that's around 2.2MB/sec
[12:46] <MooDoo> hi all
[12:47] <gordonjcp> Azelphur: not beyond the rate at which the kernel can sling packets
[12:48] <Azelphur> I see
[12:48] <Azelphur> is 2.2MB/sec a reasonable requirement? or should I be trying to do this a different way
[12:48] <davmor2> Morning MooDoo
[12:49] <davmor2> MooDoo: hows the new one the older one and the prettier one? :D
[12:50] <MooDoo> we're all fine, the new one is still on aus time, the older one is in their terrible 3's period and czajkowski is fine :D
[12:50] <MooDoo> lol
[12:51] <ali1234> Azelphur: you don't need to keep resending it
[12:51] <ali1234> G15 only updates the display when something changes on it, or "every now and then"
[12:51] <Myrtti> electricity ♥ power company decided to cut off power to cut off trees... time to go make breakfast tea and toast
[12:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, but there's some pretty hefty stuff for the G19 that will most definitely need a decent framerate
[12:51]  * czajkowski peers at MooDoo brat
[12:51] <Azelphur> ali1234: like WoW supports minimizing the game to the G19 and playing it while tabbed out, for example
[12:52] <czajkowski> gord: you're off the hook MooDoo is back
[12:52] <ali1234> Azelphur: well localhost will trivially support than anyway
[12:52] <Azelphur> ok :D
[12:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: did you see my photo last night? I got the fb up
[12:53] <ali1234> seen it now
[12:53] <ali1234> good work
[12:53] <MooDoo> czajkowski: oi not a brat :p
[12:53] <Azelphur> ty, I got gamepanel-wine talking g15daemon protocol :D
[12:53] <davmor2> MooDoo: run for pity's sake man Ireland got booted out of the cup by a young welsh team czajkowski is a bit upset :D
[12:54] <Azelphur> but I do need to make my own protocol, there's some stuff g15daemon protocol doesn't do a lot
[12:54] <czajkowski> davmor2: and so did England so shrup ya pup
[12:54] <MooDoo> davmor2: NZ for the cup....
[12:54] <davmor2> czajkowski: England weren't beaten by a bunch of upstarts though Ireland were :P
[12:55] <MooDoo> davmor2: i'd shutup, we were beaten by france of all people...who previously lost to tonga....
[12:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: I suggest biting your tongue there right now
[12:56] <davmor2> MooDoo: I know that but I'm picking on czajkowski here
[12:56] <czajkowski> and don't go any further
[12:56] <MooDoo> davmor2: she'd win
[12:56] <davmor2> MooDoo: I know but it's fun :D
[12:56] <MooDoo> davmor2: she's prettier than you today so i'm on her side :p
[12:57]  * davmor2 gives czajkowski another consolation hug
[12:58] <davmor2> MooDoo: are you saying I'm ever prettier than czajkowski cause if that's the case I can say what I want she'll be gunning for you :P
[12:58] <MooDoo> davmor2: er no lol
[13:11] <Monsterwizard> oh god
[13:11] <Monsterwizard> shell shocked
[13:11] <Monsterwizard> finite automata
[13:11] <Monsterwizard> serious business now
[13:14] <davmor2> czajkowski: nice catch on the bristol open source thing :)
[13:14] <czajkowski> amusing I used to work for the other company
[13:17] <davmor2> czajkowski: Their loss I'm sure :)
[13:17] <Azelphur> oh hey that's interesting, I just noticed youtube implemented some kind of smart buffering that doesn't waste bandwith, been waiting for it to do that
[13:18] <Azelphur> it shoves the buffer as fast as it can at you (Burst to 1.5MB/sec for me) then once you've got a bit of buffer, it slows right down to like 60KB/sec
[13:20] <hamitron> Azelphur, how will that work if my connection is slower than the stream?
[13:20]  * hamitron likes to buffer the whole thing
[13:21] <Azelphur> hamitron: fine, because the slow down is still faster than the video comes in
[13:21] <hamitron> ah, ofc
[13:21] <hamitron> :)
[13:21] <hamitron> long day
[13:21] <hamitron> :/
[13:21] <Azelphur> it's a sensible decision, stops people watching the first 5 seconds of a video, then thinking "nah" after having downloaded the entire 100MB video at 5MB/sec
[13:21] <Azelphur> or whatever
[13:21] <hamitron> tbh, I think I may clock off
[13:22] <hamitron> yep
[13:22] <hamitron> and it will certainly have been in the interests of google
[13:22] <hamitron> but also benefits the user
[13:22] <czajkowski> iphone 4 s - iphone 4 steve
[13:22] <hamitron> dead before it started? ;/
[13:24] <davmor2> czajkowski: Wrong s is for sleeker, sexier, speedier, stylee  there have to be for of them you muppet
[13:24] <dwatkins> like the 3GS, clearly
[13:25]  * czajkowski gags davmor2 and sends him to the naugthystep
[13:25] <davmor2> czajkowski: already there :P
[13:25] <MooDoo> czajkowski: take the gimp mask off please
[13:25] <davmor2> MooDoo: you missed it czajkowski was on the #naughtystep
[13:26] <MooDoo> davmor2: /join #naughtystep
[13:26] <heeed> wow, gagging on the ubuntu channel...whatever next? :)
[13:26] <MooDoo> lol
[13:26] <czajkowski> *grin*
[13:26] <czajkowski> welcome back popey
[13:39] <oimon> when editing switch configs, i find it impossible to type ctrl-Z without automatically typing bg afterwards :S
[14:07] <davmor2> czajkowski: you know you just signed up for everyone to send you awesome note on twitter now right?
[14:08] <czajkowski> see the video I posted
[14:09] <czajkowski> it's one word that drives me crazy
[14:09] <czajkowski> over used
[14:09] <MooDoo> bird bird bird birs is the word
[14:09] <czajkowski> and sounnds like brainless clueless people like the flim clueless
[14:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: see there's you're problem you watch things like clueless
[14:10] <davmor2> :D
[14:10] <MooDoo> davmor2: she's trying to learn stuff ;)
[14:11]  * davmor2 starts measuring MooDoo for his Coffin
[14:11] <MooDoo> davmor2: she's miles away :D
[14:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: technically the meaning on awesome is it has some awe,  awful would mean it was magnificent and full of awe maybe you should switch the words out and watch peoples faces
[14:26] <kaushal> Hi
[14:27] <kaushal> when i start glassfish service it shows pid and not processname as glassfish,
[14:27] <kaushal> am i doing something wrong ?
[14:29] <kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/705413/
[14:29] <kaushal> basically 710 should be replaced by glassfish
[14:31] <popey> kaushal: username is too long
[14:31] <popey> kaushal: known issue with ps
[14:31] <kaushal> popey: ok
[14:31] <kaushal> popey: is it do something with the init.d script ?
[14:32] <popey> 15:31:13 < popey> kaushal: known issue with ps
[14:32] <kaushal> popey: ok
[14:32] <popey> it always shows the user ID rather than user name when the name is longer than about 8 characters
[14:32] <kaushal> ok
[14:34] <kaushal> popey: Thanks
[14:35] <directhex> popey, not an issue. BYDESIGN!
[14:37] <popey> ☺
[15:35] <bigcalm> 4 letter name usernames ftw \o/
[16:01] <DJones> Ouch http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/10/toshiba_laptop_shoots_through_mans_hand/
[16:03] <DJones> The spike looks more like a 6 inch round nail than something that could come out of a laptop
[16:04] <AlanBell> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612063.stm
[16:08] <gord> so the one thing i don't understand about whole thing, why is the raspberry pi being touted as the solution? i mean, its basically just a regular computer anyway
[16:08] <AlanBell> it has the advantage of being cheap, and a bit rubbish
[16:08] <AlanBell> and has no case
[16:09] <gord> well, what i am getting at is, schools already have computers
[16:10] <AlanBell> they do indeed, and they *could* be used for teaching
[16:10] <AlanBell> but they are not *for* teaching computer science they are for teaching office skills
[16:11] <gord> right, sure. 100% agree, but again how does the raspberry pi slot into this? why can't we just load up visual basic (or python or something or whatever) onto these machines?
[16:12]  * brobostigon returns
[16:16] <AlanBell> it is a marketing issue really
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> that, and it's not just "running python or vb"
[16:17] <MartijnVdS> You need to teach low-level things as well
[16:18] <AlanBell> it is something the BBC can support
[16:18] <gord> well obviously, thats what computer science courses teach, i just don't get the involvement of a small arm device is all
[16:19] <Monsterwizard> I'm doing a CS course and have a chance to learn assembler <3
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> gord: politics
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> gord: also, if everyone has the same (known) hardware, that makes it easier to write good school books
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> gord: (about them)
[16:20] <AlanBell> ARM has a BBC heritage
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> none of the "If you have WinME, do X, on Win7, do Y, on MacOS, you're on your own"
[16:20] <AlanBell> and they are flattering the BBC and the good old days
[16:20] <gord> now its if you have a raspberry pi do X, otherwise you are on your own?
[16:21] <Seeker`> anyone else following the ARG?
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: Sure, but you could include the Raspberry PI with the book.. won't make it much more expensive
[16:21] <gord> AlanBell figured it out weeks ago and i'm not smart enough :( its infuriating
[16:21] <MartijnVdS> gord: (school book prices are extreme already)
[16:22] <gord> collages with computer science departments have gotten along without dedicated devices for years, i just don't see any point
[16:22] <Seeker`> Monsterwizard: assembler or assembly?
[16:23] <gord> just bring the collage courses to the high schools and make the collage courses higher level
[16:23] <Monsterwizard> assembler
[16:24] <Monsterwizard> why gord?
[16:24] <gord> you have lost me, why me?
[16:25] <Seeker`> Monsterwizard: assembler is the program that converts assembly to machine code. "I'm going to learn assembler" is like saying "I'm going to learn compiler"
[16:25] <Monsterwizard> no no
[16:25] <Monsterwizard> you can learn assembler
[16:25] <Seeker`> ...?
[16:25] <Monsterwizard> assembler is the complier too
[16:26] <Seeker`> yes, assembler is the compiler, not the language
[16:27] <gord> you could certainly make the statement "i'm going to learn gcc" i think ;)
[16:27] <Monsterwizard> lol
[16:27] <Seeker`> gord: not sure what you'd actually be learning though :P
[16:28] <gord> how not to shoot yourself in the foot with cflags
[16:29] <mgdm> gord: don't run Gentoo. Simples.
[16:38] <Monsterwizard> Seeker I suck :/
[16:39] <Seeker`> Monsterwizard: hmm?
[17:04] <AlanBell> gord: you are of course totally right, they have perfectly good hardware in schools already, and there are perfectly good languages they could teach
[17:05] <furryrobot> The potential for kids to learn programming has never been greater.  I expect in practice only a minority will be interested though.
[17:05] <AlanBell> this computer is different in that it looks like an arduino so is obviously not an office computer, it doesn't have a lot of power and is being marketed with the entire point of the thing to be learning
[17:06] <AlanBell> not getting on the interwebs to buy new hats
[17:06] <furryrobot> It would be a bonus if it has a coolness factor, and you can use it for something which annoys adults.
[17:06] <gord> so basically, its a computer to force schools to teach programming on it because you can't really do anything else with it?
[17:06] <AlanBell> gord: exactly
[17:06] <AlanBell> and the BBC can market it
[17:07] <gord> okay, one last question. who is buying all the new monitors with HDMI in to support the HDMI out on it? ;)
[17:07] <AlanBell> HDMI to DVI works fine
[17:07]  * bigcalm nods
[17:07] <MartijnVdS> also, TVs do HDMI now
[17:08] <gord> its been a long time since i was in a school ;) but they were all VGA back then
[17:08] <bigcalm> 2 quid cable on amazon: HDMI -> DVI
[17:08] <AlanBell> not-for-profit organisation behind it, and it is the conceptual successor to the BBC model B
[17:08] <AlanBell> VGA output is a problem
[17:08] <AlanBell> they were investigating abusing the DSP to do VGA signalling
[17:09] <gord> i kinda just wish windows came with a slimmed down version of visual studio hidden away somewhere
[17:10] <gord> kids are amazing, you give them a tool and they'll figure it out soon enough
[17:10] <gord> its how i learnt the basics when i was a kid
[17:10] <bigcalm> How the heck can mailto: not be supported on my android tablet?
[17:11] <AlanBell> http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/ <- best textbook ever
[17:20] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Encouraging Membership - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/10/encouraging-membership/
[17:49] <ali1234> gord: windows has a built in programming language (and i don't mean command.com)
[17:49] <ali1234> it is basically visualbasic
[17:50] <ali1234> gord: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Script_Host
[17:52] <ali1234> AlanBell: abusing the DSP to do arbitrary signal generation is *exactly* what i need from it (not VGA though)
[17:53] <ali1234> essentially i just want a software defined rx/tx that operates up to 10Mhz or so
[17:54] <ali1234> it's not really a radio at those frequencies, but still gnu radio is probably the closest thing right now
[17:54] <popey> Evening all.
[17:55] <ali1234> i should probably just buy a FPGA board
[17:55] <ali1234> would solve all my problems
[17:56] <MartijnVdS> Buying FPGA boards won't get you women where I'm from
[17:58]  * MartijnVdS tries to decide what music to listen to
[17:59] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdms76XDyng
[17:59] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: W to the T to the F
[18:00] <ali1234> i dunno it just appeared in my subs
[18:00] <ali1234> i lol'd
[18:01] <shauno> AlanBell: I'm curious, have you ever installed osx?  (looking at the voiceover / a11y stuff)
[18:01] <popey> oh golly
[18:01] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-0MXklxHlQ
[18:02] <shauno> heh, I know, osx should be pariah here.  but they get a lot of the accessibility stuff right
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: heard that one too much (ex-colleague liked it A LOT)
[18:03] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: try the original then
[18:03] <davmor2> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBWrLhgiX74
[18:03] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: have that on vinyl I think :)
[18:03] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJv5qLsLYoo&feature=related
[18:03]  * MartijnVdS listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5r3GoTAXcE
[18:04] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914&feature=related
[18:04] <ali1234> i've had all those bad lip reading songs stuck in my head for a week now
[18:04] <ali1234> they are so catchy
[18:04] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: Bad lip reading?
[18:04] <ali1234> especially "dirty spaceman"
[18:05] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MufJJ9Yj8Mw
[18:05] <ali1234> probably nsfw, if you listen too closely to the lyrics
[18:08] <AlanBell> shauno: no
[18:09] <shauno> AlanBell: I'm setting up a few VMs .. I'll try to record the process with a11y turned on one of them.  I think it's interesting :)
[18:09] <AlanBell> yeah, would be interested to see how they do it
[18:09] <AlanBell> I have heard it is quite good
[18:10] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: But.. what?
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: what am I looking at?
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and why doesn't it seem to match the original linked below?
[18:11] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: it's "bad lip reading" - they take the original video and make a whole new song to it, based on what it looks like they are singing
[18:11] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: ah
[18:11] <ali1234> and every single one is better than the original
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's not un-understandable lyrics mis-interpreted on purpose
[18:12] <ali1234> nah the songs are completely different to the originals
[18:13] <ali1234> at first they are just funny, but they are also really great pop songs as well
[18:14]  * MartijnVdS watches a few more
[18:15] <shauno> AlanBell: last time I tried (installing with voiceover on a machine with a dead screen) it had some niggles.  it's not flawless
[18:16] <GirlyGirl> bye
[18:16] <MartijnVdS> \o GirlyGirl
[18:16] <shauno> apparently there's some magic key combinations you're expect to know in advance
[18:20] <AlanBell> ctrl+s at the drums for ubuntu
[18:22] <shauno> I mostly find this interesting because nothing has serial ports anymore.  a11y is important for me because it's easier to find a machine with a sound card, than a serial port
[18:23] <AlanBell> serial ports for a braille tty?
[18:23] <shauno> well, any tty
[18:23] <AlanBell> yeah
[18:24] <AlanBell> I want "installing headless servers" to be a use-case for the speech install
[18:24] <shauno> I'm not impaired, but the hardware is increasingly so.  used to be I could bring a machine up headless with a serial cable
[18:24] <AlanBell> I have headphones and a USB keyboard, I don't need a monitor
[18:25] <shauno> which is again something osx is interesting for.  the installer boots with sshd live with the mac address as a root password
[18:25] <AlanBell> that kind of scenario would be cool
[18:25] <shauno> or the hardware s/n, I forget
[18:25] <AlanBell> now that is something we *should* copy
[18:26] <shauno> that's what's irking me.  it seems ubuntu is taking a lot of cues from the mac lately
[18:26] <shauno> but it feels like they're taking all the wrong ones
[18:27] <shauno> copy the stuff they get right, not the stuff they make pretty
[18:28] <AlanBell> bug 764905 being prime example of copying the wrong stuff
[18:30] <shauno> heh.  that's a hangup from pre-osx.  that has no place on osx, let alone anyone trying to copy the bits they do right
[18:31] <shauno> if nothing else, I expect things thrown in the trash to be impermanent; I can undo with a keystroke
[18:32] <ali1234> dropping a usb stick in the trash should delete all the files on it, then permanently brick it
[18:32] <shauno> lol
[18:33] <shauno> I don't know about brick it, but if it "initialized" the volume, then I pretty much got what I asked for
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> They should fix it by making drag-usb-to-trash format the device without asking
[18:40] <jacobw> why not pop a what-do-you-want-to-do dialogue when the usb icon hits the trash
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: because people don't want to choose -- they've already chosen!
[18:43] <AlanBell> badly
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> (to throw it in the trash)
[18:44] <shauno> "huh?" is probably about the best response to a trashed keyring
[18:46] <AlanBell> that is like people who habitually keep all their emails in the trash folder, because that has no quota on some systems
[18:47] <shauno> ugh .. we get that with desktops.  the desktop isn't saved between sessions
[18:47] <AlanBell> came across that once when I was doing support, had to close their mail client to do an upgrade, it asked me if I wanted to empty the trash as I closed the window, I said yes without thinking
[18:47] <shauno> ~/Desktop is /tmp for most people
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> shauno: only because /tmp is so full of sockets, pipes and other assorted cruft
[19:10] <jacobw> does anyone use /tmp as its intended?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: I have lots of "try.pl" etc. in there
[20:12] <BigRedS>  /join #linuxoutlaws
[20:12] <BigRedS> urk
[20:22] <popey> BigRedS: i think you mean /join #sixgun
[20:30] <czajkowski> *yawns*
[20:31] <BigRedS> popey: aha, quite possibly. ta
[20:32] <BigRedS> I've got distracted by something else now in any case :)
[20:33] <czajkowski> evening chaparoos
[20:43] <BigRedS> G'morning czajkowski
[20:44] <czajkowski> BigRedS: hows things?
[20:45] <BigRedS> I'm on the world's laggiest SSH session :( It's like typing through glue...
[20:45] <BigRedS> you?
[20:45] <popey> f
[20:45] <popey> i
[20:45] <popey> n
[20:45] <popey> e
[20:45] <czajkowski> trying to figure out how to register at my embassy over here
[20:45] <czajkowski> and also sort out my british passport
[20:45] <czajkowski> love paperwork
[20:46] <BigRedS> is 'over here' still England?
[20:48] <czajkowski> BigRedS: yup
[20:48] <czajkowski> I'm here 11 months and 3 weeks now
[20:48] <czajkowski> :o
[20:49] <BigRedS> ah, I'm not used to, er, here being 'over here'
[20:50] <popey> BigRedS: you coming out to play on thursday?
[20:51] <BigRedS> popey: yeah, should be
[20:51] <popey> yay
[20:51] <BigRedS> I can't remember the circumstances in which I can't, but I'm pretty sure there are some
[20:52] <BigRedS> oh, that's a point. I need to learn this gpg thing for your email :)
[20:52] <popey> ☺
[20:52] <czajkowski> oh I can finally see that large smiley
[20:52] <czajkowski> :)
[20:52] <czajkowski> hmm
[20:52] <czajkowski> popey: how do you do the smiley like that
[20:53] <BigRedS> Unicode? No, that's being put off indefinitely :)
[20:53] <popey> ㋛
[20:53] <popey> is also nice :D
[20:53] <hamitron> can't see that last one
[20:53] <hamitron> :/
[20:53] <czajkowski> oh tis
[20:53] <czajkowski> (:)
[20:53] <czajkowski> nope
[20:54] <popey> ⍨
[20:54] <hamitron> or that
[20:54] <hamitron> ;/
[20:54] <popey> i have aliases in irc, so I do : ) and get ☺
[20:54] <popey> and : ( and get ☹
[20:54] <popey> and : s and get ⍨
[20:54] <czajkowski> :  )
[20:54] <czajkowski> :  )
[20:54] <czajkowski>  : )
[20:54] <popey> without the spaces
[20:54] <hamitron> :/
[20:54] <popey> you have to define the aliases :D
[20:54] <czajkowski> bugger
[20:54] <popey> ask paultag
[20:54] <popey> he did it
[20:55] <popey> also ->
[20:55] <czajkowski> naturally
[20:55] <popey> er →
[20:55] <popey> and ←
[20:55] <czajkowski> ohh funky
[20:55] <hamitron> will mess up any C code you paste ;/
[20:56]  * Laney uses the compose key for such
[20:56]  * BigRedS uses old-fashioned smileys
[20:57] <hamitron> old boring and reliable ftw
[20:57] <hamitron> :)
[20:58] <BigRedS> I have, occasionally, been called a luddite...
[21:04] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/10/10/encouraging-membership/  if you know people who should be going for membership, why not give them a  nudge
[21:09] <bigcalm> I wonder how I can get Synergy to handle more char codes. AltGr + i gives me nothing on this screen
[21:13]  * AlanBell updates pictures on http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[21:17] <ali1234> i should submit a patch to OBS to use ☺ instead of : in filename
[21:17] <ali1234> because : just isn't annoying enough
[21:30]  * BigRedS wonders how painful this newsnight is going to be
[21:31] <hamitron> BigRedS, what is the subject?
[21:33] <BigRedS> There's talk that it's about actually teaching IT in IT lessons
[21:33] <BigRedS> but, er, it's the Arts minister explaining
[21:33] <hamitron> I can't see the point in teaching a lot of IT tbh
[21:34] <hamitron> the younger generation pick a lot up as required
[21:34] <BigRedS> yeah, but it'd be nice if they learnt more than just what was required
[21:35] <hamitron> so I'd sack that minister and save a bit of money
[21:35] <hamitron> ;)
[21:36] <hamitron> also, no point in learning tech in some parts of the country
[21:36] <hamitron> the country (at least the UK), is going to fragment as areas are cut off from lack of services
[21:37] <hamitron> I suspect some will take a step back and stop using IT so much at this rate
[21:37] <jacobw> unix skills are like an tab file of generally useful paradigms
[21:40] <BigRedS> The talk is of school-level education
[21:40] <BigRedS> it's not to send people to get a job in $subject, it's because knowledge of $subject will be useful whatever they go on to do
[21:41] <hamitron> I guess word processing can be useful
[21:41] <BigRedS> no, that's the point
[21:41] <BigRedS> teaching *actual* IT
[21:41] <hamitron> what do you consider IT?
[21:41] <AlanBell> have they talked about it yet?
[21:41] <BigRedS> how computers work
[21:41] <BigRedS> no
[21:41] <BigRedS> they're talking about liam fox
[21:42] <AlanBell> yeah, watching that now
[21:42] <hamitron> oh, I thought IT was using a computer, where as Computing is how it works :D
[21:42] <AlanBell> hamitron: ICT is what they call useless teaching
[21:42] <BigRedS> oh, perhaps. I don't know. Either way, the things kids should learn in IT lessons are what you'd call compting
[21:43] <BigRedS> word processing belongs in English lessions, using spreadsheets in maths ones.
[21:43] <hamitron> spreadies are not maths
[21:43] <hamitron> :/
[21:43] <jacobw> information technology is about processes independent of what performs the process imo
[21:43] <BigRedS> IT shouldn't be "how to do other subjects with computers"
[21:43] <BigRedS> aren't they? I've only ever usd them for stats
[21:44] <AlanBell> yeah, and they are fine for doing that
[21:44] <BigRedS> but, still, my brother's IT coursework was basically doing stats in Excel. That should have been maths coursework.
[21:45] <BigRedS> A lot of the IT curriculum isn't really IT so much as other subjects but on computers
[21:45]  * jacobw agrees
[21:45] <hamitron> from what I've seen, kids lack basic Maths and English skills. need to learn how to write before they worry about typing things up
[21:45] <hamitron> ;)
[21:45] <AlanBell> learning how to do a bubble sort is computing
[21:46] <BigRedS> well, yes. I'm not saying the rest of the education system isn't broken :)
[21:46] <AlanBell> learning why not to do one is advanced computing
[21:46] <StevenR> IT (as taught in UK secondary schools) isn't much about computers, but more about generating vast amounts of pointless paperwork.
[21:46] <bigcalm> Computing or confusing? ;)
[21:46] <jacobw> i think computers are used to coerce kids in to doing english and maths
[21:46] <AlanBell> but any kind of learning about algorithms is great
[21:47]  * StevenR wishes there was more about algortthms, how things actually work, basic networking, etc.
[21:47] <hamitron> I think the main thing I got against computers.... they can be used to reduce the need to think for yourself. same problem with calculators
[21:48] <hamitron> ban them all till they are 14
[21:48] <hamitron> ;)
[21:48] <StevenR> hamitron: my primary school pretty much never let me use a calculator
[21:48] <BigRedS> nah, as with calculators, the questions just need to be rephrased
[21:48] <AlanBell> depends totally on what you are asking them to do
[21:48] <jacobw> teachers can't teach what they don't know, and most don't know their subject
[21:48] <StevenR> hamitron: I consider that good teaching :)
[21:48] <BigRedS> or, perhaps, the notion that you need to be able to not use them needs to be questioned
[21:48] <hamitron> StevenR, same :)
[21:49] <jacobw> in my experience at least, my secondary math teacher didn't have an A level in maths :|
[21:49] <hamitron> jacobw, :-o
[21:51] <BigRedS> jacobw: really?
[21:51] <jacobw> yes, for years 7 to 9
[21:51] <BigRedS> that's not right
[21:51] <jacobw> i didn't know this until we were doing our GCSEs and he was studying inline with us for his AS exams
[21:52] <hamitron> sounds about right
[21:52]  * hamitron sighs
[21:58] <KrimZon_2> somehow in xubuntu beta, firefox freezes xorg for several seconds whenever I try to customize the toolbars
[21:59] <jacobw> that's odd
[21:59] <jacobw> have you looked fora matching bug report?
[22:00] <KrimZon_2> I've googled around
[22:02] <BigRedS> ah, they're talking about computers now
[22:02] <BigRedS> and failed with the 10 people binary joke...
[22:03] <jacobw> what programme is this?
[22:03] <hamitron> "no signal"
[22:03] <hamitron> :/
[22:04] <hamitron> at least the text is crystal clear
[22:04] <hamitron> ;)
[22:04] <BigRedS> jacobw: Newsnight, BBC2
[22:05] <hamitron> brb, coffee
[22:12] <BigRedS> Oh. Ed Vaizey's insane
[22:14] <mgdm> He's a politician, that's almost a tautology
[22:16] <BigRedS> haha
[22:17] <AlanBell> well that was interesting
[22:22] <KrimZon_2> aha, I switched to the recommended nvidia drivers and it seems to work better now
[22:22] <bigcalm> Freedom isn't all it's cracked up to be ;)
[22:26] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[22:29] <daftykins> nn brobostigon o/
[22:29] <daftykins> brobostigon: hehe, i greeted you this morning, slept, then said g'night :D
[22:29] <daftykins> my sleep pattern is officially funky.
[23:16] <daftykins> guys does alt+f2 still work even in the newer unity'd ubuntus?
[23:16] <daftykins> to get a run dialogue
[23:16] <daftykins> just helping someone but haven't touched the latest versions
[23:25] <JohnRobert> I wonder if wifi works in 10.10
[23:25] <JohnRobert> :/
[23:26] <JohnRobert> wait
[23:26] <JohnRobert> it's 2011 isn't it
[23:26] <JohnRobert> lol I can't even pronounce the new one
[23:33] <funkyHat> daftykins: yes
[23:33] <funkyHat> The run dialog looks just like the dash, but you still type normal commands into it
[23:34] <daftykins> ah well, gitso wouldn't work so the person couldn't get me to connect in so i gave up
[23:34] <funkyHat> This reply is probably a bit too late though ⢁D
[23:34] <daftykins> nah that's cool, thanks anyway :)
[23:34] <daftykins> rather one than none!
[23:34] <daftykins> JohnRobert: oh-near-ick? :)
[23:35] <daftykins> it was a weird one that, this person's windows xp install shutdown at boot, so dualbooting with ubuntu he/she was trying to scan it with clamav
[23:35] <daftykins> only the windosw partition didn't show up on the places menu
[23:35] <AlanBell> JohnRobert: install the new one then run "spd-say oneiric ocelot" in a terminal session
[23:35] <AlanBell> we tweaked the pronunciation :)
[23:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: got any suggestions on where I should listen inside this DLL for reply packets? (button presses, etc)
[23:39] <ali1234> there should be a function for that?
[23:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: maybe KeyHandler? If it gets called repeatedly
[23:44] <Azelphur> I don't get it though, do the applications call these functions? if so surely we shouldn't be relying on that
[23:47] <daftykins> Azelphur: you playing with some kinda blackbox DLL for funsies? :>
[23:47] <Azelphur> daftykins: something like that o.O
[23:47] <daftykins> heh
[23:47] <Azelphur> daftykins: attempting to add wine support for gaming keyboards
[23:47] <Azelphur> ali1234: reverse engineered most of the dll I'm trying to make it talk to the Linux driver :D
[23:49] <JohnRobert> interesting
[23:49] <JohnRobert> what's so different about gaming keyboards?
[23:49] <Azelphur> JohnRobert: onboard LCD display that games display fun things on
[23:49] <daftykins> Azelphur: ah, should've known ;)
[23:49] <daftykins> do many really support it?
[23:50] <Azelphur> yep
[23:50] <daftykins> anything very recent?
[23:50] <Azelphur> daftykins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_G15#Game_and_application_support
[23:50] <daftykins> ta!
[23:50] <Azelphur> daftykins: oh hey this is a better/more official list http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/68/554 :p
[23:51] <Azelphur> hahaha, "World of Warcraft Cataclysium" :D
[23:51] <daftykins> can't say i understand it myself
[23:51] <daftykins> when i'm playing a game i'm looking at the screen ;D
[23:52] <Azelphur> daftykins: the world of warcraft one is quite cool, it lets you minimize the game to the G19 while your tabbed out :)
[23:54] <JohnRobert> that is cool
[23:54] <JohnRobert> not that I play games, but that's quite a nice feature
[23:54] <Azelphur> yea
[23:55] <daftykins> oh man
[23:55] <daftykins> Dodgy are playing in Brighton next month
[23:55] <daftykins> :D
[23:55] <daftykins> anyone remember them?
[23:57] <daftykins> guess not
[23:57] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:58] <daftykins> "Staying out for the Summer" ?
[23:58] <daftykins> "If it's good enough for you, it's good enough for me...?"
[23:58] <daftykins> 90s band


[12:59] <smoser> harlowja, hm.. i was suggesting you could render at setup.py (install) time.
[13:48] <rharper> smoser: that hang we saw ... I think it may be related to system-resolvd;  I don't think that's getting started prior to cloud-init-local/net which means if we bring up networking but we don't have resolvd running, I believe it times out resolving (in my case, the GCE datasource)
[13:49] <smoser> ah.
[13:49] <rharper> I added After=systemd-resolved.service; Requires=systemd-resolved.service to cloud-init.service (which is when netmode runs)
[13:49] <smoser> that could do it.
[13:49] <rharper> we should chat with pitti maybe and see where that ought to come up
[13:49] <smoser> http://pad.lv/1629868
[13:49] <smoser> yeah.
[13:49] <smoser> i treid to reproduce with the webhook reporter
[13:49] <smoser> but it didn't work
[13:49] <smoser> because i was using by ip address
[13:50] <rharper> ah
[13:50] <smoser> you dont have to add the 'Requires'
[13:50] <smoser> and probably shouldnt really...
[13:50] <rharper> hrm
[13:50] <rharper> well
[13:50] <smoser> After is sufficent
[13:50] <rharper> it's sufficient, the question is if dns doesn't come up
[13:50] <rharper> is it worth running ?
[13:51] <smoser> yeah, i dont know whow i feel
[13:51] <rharper> if we requires=networking , why not dns too ?
[13:52] <smoser> networking doesnt require dns :)
[13:52] <rharper> fair
[13:52] <smoser> the internet worked without dns for quite some time
[13:52] <smoser> heres my /etc/hosts file
[13:52] <smoser> :)
[13:52] <rharper> I need to play with the unit deps; systemd said I had a loop
[13:52] <smoser> hm..
[13:52] <smoser> lets just ask pitti
[13:52] <smoser> i think he's in
[13:53] <rharper> ok
[14:46] <rharper> smoser: the digitalocean merge is causing unittest failures due to older mock (I'm on xenial, no mock 2.0 here), http://paste.ubuntu.com/23275308/
[14:51] <smoser> rharper, fiddle.
[14:51] <smoser> thank you for catching.
[14:51] <smoser> proposed that merge ?
[14:55] <rharper> y
[15:00] <rharper> smoser: https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/307583
[17:17] <harlowja> smoser well its either render at install, or render at runtime, i'm ok with either :-P
[17:18] <smoser> it kinda seems overkill to render at runtime to me.
[17:19] <harlowja> k
[20:16] <smoser> rharper, where idid you get a mock that did not have that ?
[20:16] <smoser> the assert_called ?
[20:17] <smoser> bah.
[20:17] <smoser> never mind.
[20:18] <smoser> i was running your branch and trying to see it fail
[20:18] <smoser> it doesnt fail there ! :)
[22:31] <harlowja> alright, smoser https://git.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/commit/?id=8a445f0811e8deca935f5781a84e8d08067b1b1e much smaller now
[22:31] <harlowja> a new makefile step will render that
[22:42] <harlowja> don't see how i can easily do it in setup.py time
[22:42] <harlowja> so makefile step it is :-P
[22:45] <harlowja> smoser rharper mock had some busted version a while ago that let u do self.assert_anything_u_want and it'd say true
[22:46] <rharper> harlowja: yeah; I had seen that discussion
[22:46] <harlowja> because it was thinking u were mocking a new method 'assert_anything_u_want'
[22:46] <harlowja> vs checking prior asserts, lol
[22:47] <rharper> heh