[00:04] <jetole> hey guys, don't know if this is the right chan to ask but I will ask and you can let me know. I have to PC's each with a macintosh slim keyboard. The keyboard worked fine on both with 8.04. The one where I did a fresh install of 8.10 works fine however the one I did an upgrade to 8.10, the ctrl+alt keys don't seem to work
[00:04] <jetole> this 8.10 x86_64 on both and they are not mac computers. I just like the keyboard so I bought it for both PC
[00:06] <jetole> ctrl+alt was tested with virtual term (ctrl+alt+f1, f2, etc), X zap (ctrl+alt+backspace) and now with compiz cube rotate ctrl+alt+mouse
[00:07] <jetole> the xorg.conf shows the macintosh keyboard driver and the xev application shows Control_L, Alt_L, Control_R and Alt_R
[00:07] <jetole> any suggestions?
[01:37] <kolby> What is the normal way to get source and store code for an ubuntero?
[01:38] <kolby> this is a problem I have not solved.
[01:38] <kolby> is there a standard method?
[01:38] <kolby> I could use bazaar, apt-get, sourceforge, freshmeat... etc.
[01:40] <cjwatson> bazaar (either hosted on bazaar.launchpad.net, or a mirrored branch registered there) is about as standard as we've got
[01:40] <cjwatson> it is not universal
[01:41] <cjwatson> but it is integrated with launchpad for bug tracking and some other things already, and is likely to get more so
[01:41] <kolby> cjwatson, that bothers me...  the filesystem has many standards yet the development method is left to be foggy.
[01:42] <cjwatson> we're working on improving standardisation of this in Ubuntu by way of Bazaar
[01:42] <cjwatson> but you asked for the current state
[01:42] <kolby> cjwatson, thank you.
[01:42] <cjwatson> in any case, standardisation of the filesystem is much more important than standardisation of source control
[01:43] <cjwatson> and therefore it makes perfect sense that it was done first
[01:43] <kolby> I see
[01:43] <kolby> cjwatson, so... I have a directory called ~/Code that I use for storing my branches.  Is there a better way?
[01:43] <ebroder> kolby: Don't look for the Right And Only Way to do development - find what works for you
[01:44] <cjwatson> local names vary and the details are not important
[01:44] <cjwatson> I use ~/src but who cares what it's called
[01:44] <kolby> ebroder, Shouldn't there at least be a marked and titled "good way"
[01:44] <cjwatson> there are more important things
[01:44] <ebroder> kolby: For where you check out your source code? That's totally a personal preference thing
[01:45] <kolby> thank you both.
[01:45] <cjwatson> the layout of your local source code is likely to depend on the types of projects you contribute to
[01:45] <cjwatson> for example, I think of things largely in terms of distributions and so my local source code is organised in terms of the distribution source package names
[01:45] <cjwatson> somebody who spent more time maintaining upstream code would not think of things that way and it would make no sense to encourage them to do so
[01:46] <cjwatson> e.g. I would generally keep the upstream for an Ubuntu package foobar in ~/src/ubuntu/foobar/upstream/trunk/ or similar
[01:46] <cjwatson> but the upstream developer would find that bizarre and ~/src/foobar/trunk/ might be more natural
[01:47] <kolby> I want to contribute to Debian...  and learn how to build rpms... and possibly more exotic packages.  I'll do all that once I've mastered ubuntu packaging.
[01:47] <kolby> cjwatson, right.
[01:47] <cjwatson> I don't think it's particularly useful for us to spend time trying to standardise this; standardisation is valuable in terms of remote code access (e.g. bazaar.launchpad.net), but for local code layout it would be like fighting a blizzard uphill and wouldn't gain us anything
[01:48] <kolby> My discomfort originated by having a cluttered source code directory.
[01:48] <kolby> I would use "apt-get source" and get four similarly named package files that have different suffixes.
[01:48] <cjwatson> my trivial recommendation would be to organise it by source package
[01:49] <ebroder> Yeah, I agree
[01:49] <cjwatson> mkdir whatever; cd whatever before you apt-get source
[01:50] <kolby> cjwatson, that's what I've been doing.
[01:51] <kolby> I think enough people do this to the point where that should be what "apt-get source" does by default.
[01:51] <cjwatson> kolby: maybe if it had started that way, but at this point it would be a hideous pain to change it
[01:52]  * kolby grumbles
[01:52] <kolby> well... I'll fork.  lol.  jk
[01:52] <ebroder> Hmm...aptitude hasn't grown a source command yet, right? :)
[01:53] <kolby> ebroder, nice thinking.
[01:53] <cjwatson> I don't think fiddling about with your directory structure belongs in either apt-get or aptitude. It feels more like the sort of thing that something like wajig would like to do.
[01:53] <cjwatson> (not that I use wajig)
[01:53] <kolby> ebroder, I'll whine and complain until someone else does the work... ;)
[01:53] <kolby> (kidding)
[01:54]  * kolby googles wajig...
[01:54] <cjwatson> you could apt-cache show it instead
[01:54] <kolby> cjwatson, i see *nods*
[01:55] <cjwatson> (I have no information on whether it needs to be updated in some way to work with Ubuntu!)
[01:55] <kolby> hmm...
[01:56] <kolby> another problem I've had is finding functions in header files.  Stop;  Don't laugh at me.
[01:56] <cjwatson> but honestly, creating directories is hardly rocket science. People who download lots of files and then never do any file management have the same problem, and I don't think it's something the OS needs to solve in that case either.
[01:56] <cjwatson> ctags may be your friend
[01:56] <kolby> I want a utility to spit them out "ls" style
[01:56] <kolby> okay
[01:56] <kolby> alright.
[01:57]  * kolby wastes yet another precious irc line in agreement
[01:57] <cjwatson> also w3mman is rather good at browsing back and forth between manual pages and header files
[01:57] <kolby> ^^ that sounds cool.
[01:58] <cjwatson> and of course you have things like apropos since functions tend to match a pattern for each library
[01:58] <kolby> is it in the repository?
[01:58] <cjwatson> assuming the library ships manual pages
[01:58] <cjwatson> yes, w3m package. packages.ubuntu.com can answer this class of question
[01:59] <kolby> okay.
[01:59] <kolby> does it come preinstalled then?  I think Ubuntu ships with w3m
[02:00] <cjwatson> yes, w3m is in ubuntu-standard
[02:00] <cjwatson> though this has been controversial and might not remain the case forever (if I lose the argument)
[02:01] <kolby> I'm learning how to become more organized.  I'm going to make a tar.gz for all my preferences kept in dot-files.
[02:01] <cjwatson> check them into revision control instead
[02:01] <kolby> cjwatson, I see...
[02:01] <kolby> cjwatson, good plan...
[02:02] <kolby> since I've had so many questions answered today.  I may as well ask another.
[02:02] <kolby> would it be a good idea to have all my media files revision controlled?
[02:03] <cjwatson> I wouldn't; just back up anything you care about losing
[02:03] <ebroder> kolby: What's the point? They don't actually change - they're just big binary blobs
[02:04] <kolby> ebroder, maybe for playlists that change.
[02:04] <cjwatson> big binary files are not usually a case that revision control systems spend much time optimising for, so while it might work it would probably not be very comfortable
[02:04] <ebroder> kolby: Playlists would make sense
[02:04] <kolby> cjwatson, until I build the ultimate git extension...  nah... nvm
[02:05] <kolby> ebroder, alright.  *writes another line on todo list*
[02:05] <ebroder> kolby: I think git is currently the worst 4th gen DVCS for large binary files
[02:05] <kolby> ebroder, there are 4 gens?
[02:06] <ebroder> Err, of VCS, rather
[02:06] <kolby> CVS, SVN, git...  (well, bit-something-or-other if you want to count it)
[02:06] <ebroder> I think I count the RCS generation, the CVS generation, the SVN generation, and the DVCS generation
[02:06] <kolby> D for distributed.
[02:06] <ebroder> Right
[02:06] <ebroder> git, Bazaar, Mercurial...
[02:07] <cjwatson> DVCS is generally divided into arch-era and the modern stuff
[02:07] <kolby> is that really a next generation?  Maybe it's just a design choice.
[02:07] <cjwatson> where most of the modern stuff has a sensible UI except for git
[02:07] <ebroder> git, Bazaar, and Mercurial are definitely a generation after svn
[02:07] <kolby> alright.
[02:07] <kolby> I use bzr.
[02:07] <ebroder> Eh. git is very usable, once you get used to it
[02:07] <cjwatson> kolby: yes, it requires a significantly different underlying architecture
[02:08] <cjwatson> it's a UI you have to adapt to rather than the other way round. I'm not likely to be persuadable on this :)
[02:08] <kolby> cjwatson, this shoots down my idea for game-networking that leverages server-client and p2p traffic.
[02:08] <ebroder> cjwatson: Not here to get into a flamewar :)
[02:09]  * kolby secretly devises the ultimate opinion.
[02:09] <cjwatson> (I object to the apparently popular notion that git might be usable if only I spent time learning to love it. Actually I have spent time with it; my opinion hasn't changed in the slightest. Anyway.)
[02:11] <kolby> cjwatson, I retaliate to your completely reasonable conclusions with a very incite-full objection that brings you to question your existence as a whole.
[02:11] <kolby> ...soo... umm...  burn.  :)
[02:11] <kolby> well, I had fun with that.  Moving on.
[02:12] <ScottK-desktop> We just had a go 'round on this in Debian Python Modules Team and the conclusion was stick with svn for now.
[02:12] <kolby> If only there were a wikipedia article listing all the flame wars.  Gnome vs KDE vs fluxbox, etc... vs using a gui at all
[02:13] <ion_> Vim is better than Grub.
[02:13] <kolby> ion_, no firefox is better. ;)
[02:15] <kolby> is there a way to make a package for user's dot-files?  (ex.  .bash_aliases)
[02:16] <kolby> how _should_ I go about doing this if I wanted to?
[02:17] <kolby> I couldn't find anything on it in packaging articles.
[02:18] <RAOF> There isn't really.  You _could_ do something in a postinst maintainer script, but I'd be amazed if that was accepted into the archive.
[02:19] <kolby> RAOF, this is more for _very_ preference based things (I think the *!#@$* bike shed should be blue)
[02:19] <RAOF> kolby: Why aren't there system-wide configuration?
[02:21] <kolby> he meant "/etc/foobar-rc" stuff right?
[02:22] <Hobbsee> yes
[02:23] <terli> are there any gnome developers in here?
[02:25] <kolby> terli, I'm using gnome's libxml2.  Does that count?
[02:25] <terli> um
[02:26] <kolby> :) okay
[02:26] <terli> I need to know about gnome-shell/Clutter and if that is going to effect my future dreams of running killall gnome-panel.
[03:24] <shingen> can anyone help me out with an initramfs issue with dmraid not running before a call to /dev/mapper is made?
[03:26] <shingen> I'd like to modify the initramfs scripts to perform a dmraid -ay before it looks for the /dev/mapper assignment, and if possible, some assistance would be nice... or bumping me to the right channel would be helpful too, as #ubuntu helpers aren't quite at this level...
[03:29] <shingen> for some reason, the dmraid script in /scripts/local-top in the initramfs doesn't get run on time, so my fakeraid partitions aren't detected, thus halting the boot process... while in the initramfs busybox session, after running dmraid -ay on /dev/mapper shows my partitions just fine
[03:32] <ScottK> shingen: Is this a server or desktop install?
[03:33] <shingen> ScottK: desktop, used 8.10 64 bit alternate
[03:34] <ScottK> OK.  Well if it was a server you could ask in #ubuntu-server, but it's still a support question and not what this channel is for.
[03:34] <shingen> ok, I'll try ubuntu-server and tell a white lie, hopefully they're sharper in there :)
[03:35] <shingen> thanks
[05:22] <nhandler> emgent: pong
[09:53] <lool> Does someone happen to know why Ubuntu backports don't have NotAutomatic in their Release files?
[09:55] <persia> lool, Wouldn't that block upgrades within backports?  I know the backporters do security updates for some of the backports.
[09:56] <lool> persia: It would, but it would also prevent upgrades to all backported packages by default
[09:59] <persia> Hrm.  I thought there was another way to reduce the priority, but yes, I can see that.
[10:03] <lool> persia: In both cases, one needs to configure apt; if you fail to configure it in the current case, you get security supported packages but you might get new upstream versions at random times
[10:03] <lool> If however we would switch to NotAutomatic, then you might end up with a vulnerable package which isn't auto upgraded
[10:04] <lool> (if you didn't setup apt preferences correctly)
[10:04] <lool> There's a new package which landed recently and allows tracking packages from other repos IIRC
[10:04] <lool> Oh well /me goes configuring apt
[10:08] <persia> I think the long-term plan is to integrate with that new package, although I'm not sure.
[10:10] <lool> Well it could be an apt feature IMO; or we could setup apt preferences for backports before shipping
[10:10] <lool> (and dist upgrade them along sources.list)
[10:10]  * lool should probably discuss this with Michael
[10:10] <persia> That makes sense.  Perhaps it's just that not so many people pay much attention to backports.
[10:11] <lool> I had to use them for ... unison   :-/
[10:11] <persia> Or with jdong or ScottK or Mez or ...
[10:11]  * persia hides
[10:12] <lool> We inherit unison from Debian, and the versions in all stable releases were incompatible to each others; we're just fortunate that we have less versions across Ubuntu releases
[10:13] <lool> unison 2.9 in sarge, 2.13 in etch, 2.27 in lenny/sid...
[10:14] <persia> Well, unison is incompatible across most unison releases.  Part of the nature of how upstream does things.
[10:15] <lool> I think it's quite useful to be able to sync between say a desktop running intrepid and a server running hardy
[10:15] <persia> That we inherit from Debian is a good thing, although it hasn't always been that way, and between Breezy and Hardy, we had someone watching it.
[10:15] <persia> Actually, the decision to not upgrade unison for hardy was to support a number of users who wanted to be able to sync to older releases: maybe we chose the wrong way, but it seemed right at the time.
[10:16] <lool> What I wanted to point out is that Debian doesn't keep a source package per protocol version, that we inherit, and that is a problem in Debian in Ubuntu -- mind you would Debian have a source per protocol version in a Debian stable release we'd still have a problem in Ubuntu
[10:17] <lool> +and
[10:19] <persia> Well, I suppose we could do it that way, although I'm not terribly excited about it.
[10:20] <lool> It would obviously be easier if upstream would simply support a protocol forever or arrange to support multiple versions of the procol  :)
[10:21] <persia> Yes, but upstream is exceedingly unlikely to do that: it's a succession of research projects at a university, each release with a new author overseen by the principal investigator.
[10:22] <persia> I suppose it could be recommended, but it requires catching one of the researchers active, and convincing them to put more effort in than their advisor requires, which may be tricky.
[10:26] <lool> Yeah it didn't seem very likely to me upstream would change in this regard
[10:26]  * lool needs to riun
[10:26] <lool> *run
[10:26] <persia> Have fun :)
[10:32] <Baby> pitti: ping!
[11:02] <tjaalton> how come the adobe-flashplugin isn't built on amd64?
[11:04] <tjaalton> better ask adobe I guess..
[11:09] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: i thought adobe made a amd64 build
[11:09] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: yeah, but apparently it's still beta
[11:10] <gnomefreak> ah
[11:12] <tjaalton> the flashplugin-nonfree mess in hardy is pretty bad.. backports has the newest release, which in fact is an older, vulnerable one
[11:12] <tjaalton> ("newest" meaning the package version)
[11:15] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: we backported it way too soon we found out afterwards so name was changed to 10.X.X to 10.x.x-really9.X.X
[11:16] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: but it should be updated now to -really<IP_ADDRESS>..
[11:16] <tjaalton> since if you have backports enabled you have a broken flash
[11:16] <tjaalton> security wise
[11:17] <gnomefreak> now that 10 is final we should try it but testing 32 bit worked when i did it to begin with but 64bit failed most of time
[11:17] <tjaalton> best to just track -updates
[11:17] <gnomefreak> tjaalton: our script grabs *tar.gz and adobe names every new version the same name
[11:19] <gnomefreak> last i heard they havent changed it but i heard ubuntu packages were being worked on from adobe
[11:19] <gnomefreak> that might be a rumor
[11:20] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: so you're saying that if I reinstalled flashplugin-nonfree, it would pull the correct, current version?
[11:20] <tjaalton> gnomefreak: no, it's the adobe-flashplugin -package I asked about
[11:20] <gnomefreak> no we need to update md5sums to match new upstream tarball
[11:20] <tjaalton> ok, so I'll do it locally then
[11:20] <gnomefreak> thats most likely why its failing (without seeing errors
[11:21] <tjaalton> probably, but I'm talking about security issues ;)
[11:22] <tjaalton> lunch->
[11:48] <tjaalton> right, no flash9 available anymore
[14:16] <pitti> fta_: Miriam Ruiz contacted me, she also packaged it; we merged our packaging, and it's now standard debian/-only packaging branch with cdbs+quilt; I'm just uploading it to my PPA
[14:17] <pitti> Baby: pong
[14:17] <Baby> :)
[14:17] <pitti> Baby: oh, Miriam! nice nick :-)
[14:17] <Baby> thanks! :)
[14:17] <bardyr> wtf
[14:18] <sebner> hello to the Debian games lady :)
[14:18] <ScottK> lool: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/intrepid-backports/+spec/selective-backport-support is our attempt to address the problem
[14:18] <Baby> :)
[14:18] <Baby> hi sebner!
[14:18] <Baby> I'm having a look at those ttf replacements I wanna make in calibre :)
[14:19] <pitti> Baby: great
[14:19] <pitti> Baby: did you get along with the bzr stuff? anything major I missed in the packaging merging?
[14:20] <Baby> to be honest, I haven't downloaded it yet, I'm making local experiments :)
[14:20] <Baby> I added a logo to the Team though :)
[14:20] <pitti> yay logos
[14:20] <Baby> yup!
[14:21] <Baby> making software in fact is just an excuse for making logos ;)
[14:21] <pitti> I'll be online for another hour or so, so catch me if you need help with the bzr stuff
[14:21]  * pitti is utterly bad at graphics design
[14:22] <Baby> oki :) thanks!
[14:27] <Baby> anyway if I don't solve that ttf stuff soon, I'll upload it to NEW anyway with that quick replacement
[14:27] <pitti> Baby: you are trying to get rid of the "Pythonized ttf" stuff and just load the TTFs during runtime, as they are?
[14:27] <pitti> that would make most sense to me
[14:27] <Baby> yup
[14:28] <Baby> exactly that
[14:28] <pitti> the package would get smaller, and many people have those fonts already installed anywa
[14:28] <pitti> awesome
[14:28] <pitti> Baby: what kind of e-book reader do you have, BTW?
[14:28] <Baby> 505
[14:28] <Baby> :)
[14:28] <pitti> ok, so do I
[14:28] <pitti> Baby: then you'll enjoy working hal rules :)
[14:29] <Baby> there was someone in linuxchix asking for calibre for ubuntu for an older reader
[14:29] <Baby> so I might get feedback from her
[14:29] <pitti> the 500?
[14:31] <pitti> Baby: in the meantime, do you want me to work on an improved get-orig-source which throws out the TTFs and produces a cleaned orig.tar.gz?
[14:32] <Baby> yup, that is also needed
[14:32] <pitti> (we'll need that in either case)
[14:32]  * pitti starts fiddling
[14:32] <Baby> you can generate it by just making the suggested replacement by upstream
[14:32] <Baby> and then we patch it in the packaging
[14:33] <pitti> Baby: I think the orig.tar.gz should just have it thrown out
[14:33] <pitti> Baby: symlinking/copying should be done in debian/rules IMHO
[14:33] <pitti> no need to carry duplicate bits into the orig
[14:33] <Baby> I'd go for symlinking
[14:33] <Baby> hmm ok
[14:33] <Baby> I'd go for symlinking in orig anyway
[14:33] <pitti> roger
[14:35] <pitti> Baby: (I'm just thinking it's more flexible to do it in debian/rules, then we don't need new orig.tar.gzs when we change the patches/approach)
[14:35] <Baby> if we replace it with symlinks the orig can still stand for itself
[14:36] <pitti> back in 5
[14:36] <Baby> but it's OK any way for me :)
[14:41] <pitti> Baby: stand for itself> good point; let's do that then
[18:32] <barefoot> anyone know if/when python3-tk is gonna be created/released ?
[18:56] <lool> ScottK: Aha, thanks
[19:24] <slytherin> What is the username/password to be used for using email interface of requestsync?
[21:06] <rjune_> anybody know how I get a project out of the trash bin on source forge?
[22:02] <Uuu> Developers! Developers! Developers!
[22:03] <Uuu> Happy new year! :)


[01:27] <bray90820> So in ubuntu 23.10 all samba shares show twice in nautilus and whenever I try to conenct to one with my IP address it asks for my password trhen says failed to retreve share list from server
[01:54] <plujon> I have two Ubuntu 22.04 LTS machines: A and B.  A has libssl1.1; B does not.  Why not?
[01:55] <geekguy> you need to install openssl
[01:55] <plujon> I'm wondering because Passenger depends on libcrypto.so.1.1.
[01:56] <plujon> B $ apt-get install openssl # "openssl is already the newest version"
[01:57] <bray90820> Anyone kow why my 23.10 can't connect to a 22.04 machine via samba it says failed to retreve list from server
[01:57] <rbox> apt policy openssl
[01:57] <rbox> on both machines
[01:58] <plujon> They both report: Installed: 3.0.2-0ubuntu1.10
[01:59] <plujon> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.3 # is on both machines
[01:59] <plujon> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.1 # is only on machine A
[01:59] <rbox> then what are you talking about 1.1
[02:00] <rbox> dpkg -S  /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.1
[02:00] <plujon> dpkg-query -S # libssl1.1:amd64: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libcrypto.so.1.1
[02:00] <plujon>
[02:00] <rbox> apt policy libssl1.1
[02:00] <plujon> Installed: 1.1.1f-1ubuntu2.16
[02:01] <rbox> it says more than that...
[02:01] <plujon> http://ix.io/4Jsx
[02:01] <rbox> looks like a .deb was manually installed
[02:02] <rbox> that comes from 20.04
[02:02] <leftyfb> libcrypto.so.1.1 is not a file in ubuntu 22.04 packages
[02:02] <plujon> Is there any way to tell which .deb that came from?
[02:02] <leftyfb> confirmed it is part of the libssl1.1 package available in ubuntu 20.04, not 22.04
[02:02] <rbox> the deb from 20.04...
[02:03] <leftyfb> plujon: you either upgraded from 20.04 and it was kept on there (I'm not sure this would be the case) or you installed it manually (don't do that)
[02:06] <plujon> Thanks; Yes, I think I upgraded from 20.04.
[02:07] <plujon> I think my "real" problem is that I used "focal" instead of "jammy" in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/passenger.list
[02:07] <plujon> Thanks for the tips.
[02:11] <mcc> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/nDVjSbB9/DSC_0000_BURST20231019011711412_COVER.JPG
[02:12] <mcc> I am often when I open up my computer when it's been asleep for a while seeing this strange white box with a green arrow at the bottom of the screen. What is this? It is a bug that it is appearing with no label text? I did not see this before upgrading to 23.10.
[02:17] <mcc> When I unlocked this last time, I had a popup at the top of the top of the screen saying i needed to upgrade my "dbx firmware database" or something. It brought up firmware-updater when I eventually successfully clicked on its button. Is this a garbled notification?
[02:37] <pipo> j
[02:40] <mcc> Also: often, when I click a notification, either nothing happens or it pops up a window behind my frontmost window instead of sending focus to the appropriate window. Like sometimes it just goes "firefox is ready" rather than opening the firefox window/tab. I am using Wayland. Is this surprising?
[03:23] <Guest3111> can someone please help me
[03:24] <Guest3111> I was trying to disable secure boot and now windows is bricked it says bitlicker recovery upon bootup
[03:24] <kubuntuboi> did u re-enable secure boot
[03:26] <Guest3111> no i want it off
[03:26] <Guest3111> the problem is i cant boot into windows now and i cant install linux
[03:26] <Guest3111> the keyboard doesnt work in linux
[03:29] <kubuntuboi> when it shows ubuntu on grub, hit e and after it says quiet splash try adding in i8042.dumbkbd=1
[03:29] <Guest3111> will i have to do that every time
[03:29] <kubuntuboi> (i was in the other linux channel trying to help but to much spam)
[03:29] <Guest3111> yes thank you
[03:29] <kubuntuboi> no, after it's installed you can edit /etc/default/grub and update-grub
[03:29] <Guest3111> I'll test that now
[03:30] <kubuntuboi> https://i.stack.imgur.com/Z8XjX.png it'll look similiar to this
[03:31] <Guest3111> friend
[03:31] <Guest3111> where exactly do i add the code
[03:31] <kubuntuboi> after quiet splash
[03:32] <Guest3111> they're are 3 ---
[03:32] <kubuntuboi> yes quiet splash --- right?
[03:32] <Guest3111> yes
[03:32] <Guest3111> spaces?
[03:32] <Guest3111> splash code --- ?
[03:32] <kubuntuboi> yeah so just do quiet splash i8042.dumbkbd=1
[03:32] <kubuntuboi> leave everything as is
[03:33] <kubuntuboi> just adding that
[03:33] <Guest3111> how do i save
[03:33] <Guest3111> and exit
[03:33] <kubuntuboi> then push ctrl + x to boot it
[03:33] <Guest3111> ok booting and testing
[03:34] <Guest3111> tyvm mate :)
[03:34] <Guest3111> testing
[03:34] <Guest3111> nope
[03:34] <kubuntuboi> hmmmmmmmmm
[03:37] <Guest3111> splash i8042.dumbkbd=1 ---
[03:37] <kubuntuboi> yeah i have no clue then unfortunately, if you wanna try and wait for someone else to think of something here or just re-enable secureboot in the meantime so you can actually boot windows
[03:37] <Guest3111> i can't boot windows
[03:37] <Guest3111> or reset it
[03:37] <kubuntuboi> re-enable secureboot
[03:37] <Guest3111> 8 did
[03:37] <Guest3111> still won't let
[03:37] <Guest3111> load
[03:37] <Guest3111> bitlocker recovery window
[03:37] <Guest3111> never setup bitlocker
[03:38] <kubuntuboi> interesting..
[03:39] <kubuntuboi> try rebooting and doing the same thing but adding i8042.direct i8042.dumbkbd this time
[03:41] <kubuntuboi> if that doesn't work reboot once again and try this (a lot of people on forums are having issues with that laptop unfortunately) atkbd.reset=1 i8042.nomux=1 i8042.reset=1 i8042.nopnp=1 i8042.dumbkbd=1
[03:42] <Guest3111> reach one of those individually?
[03:42] <Guest3111> or all at once..m?
[03:43] <kubuntuboi> all at once per message
[03:43] <Guest3111> wait what
[03:43] <Guest3111> how would that look...
[03:44] <kubuntuboi> quiet splash 8042.direct i8042.dumbkbd --
[03:44] <kubuntuboi> for first try, then if that doesnt work reboot and try with then quiet splash atkbd.reset=1 i8042.nomux=1 i8042.reset=1 i8042.nopnp=1 i8042.dumbkbd=1 --
[03:45] <Guest3111> quiet splash 8042.direct i8042.dumbkbd -- no =1?
[03:46] <Guest3111> quiet splash i8042.direct i8042.dumbkbd --
[03:46] <Guest3111> where is the =1 go
[03:50] <kubuntuboi> try exactly as typed lol
[03:50] <Guest3111> you forgot the i
[03:50] <Guest3111> in 8042
[03:50] <Guest3111> was that intentional
[03:52] <Guest3111> hw init failed
[03:55] <kubuntuboi> no apologies with i
[03:55] <kubuntuboi> hmm try other one too
[03:56] <Guest3111> tried both nothing
[04:01] <Guest3111> hw start failed
[04:06] <Guest3111> I'm done
[04:06] <Guest3111> i can't fix it
[04:06] <Guest3111> it's fucked
[04:06] <Guest3111> i can't return it either
[04:06] <Guest3111> can't boot windows, Linux doesn't work
[04:06] <Guest3111> it's fucked
[04:11] <Jindam> in simple english, ubuntu releases lts and interim releases in april [ 04 ] and october [ 10 ]?
[04:12] <xangua> No, a new LTS is released every two years
[04:12] <xangua> It just happens to be in April
[04:14] <xangua> (I understood your question as suggesting LTS is released yearly)
[04:14] <Jindam> interim releases contain latest package versions?
[04:14] <Jindam> like mantic 23.10
[04:14] <kubuntuboi> Guest3111: do you have a regular keyboard you can plug into it?
[04:16] <Guest3111> np
[04:16] <Guest3111> no
[04:16] <Guest3111> i want to fix the internal one
[04:17] <Guest3111> so it looks like it's fucked
[04:17] <Guest3111> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217660
[04:18] <Guest3111> no answers, no fix
[04:18] -ubottu:#ubuntu- bugzilla.kernel.org bug 217660 in Drivers "Laptop internal keyboard not working on ASUS Vivobook Go E1504GA" [Blocking, New]
[04:18] <Guest3111> only wasted money and broken dreams
[04:20] <mybalzitch> ask asus to submit a patch?
[04:21] <kubuntuboi> pretty much
[04:39] <AmR> How to install qt5 full ?
[04:39] <rbox> you can use apt to install pacakges
[04:41] <AmR> I don't know the pkg list names :(, for that I'm asking
[04:43] <rbox> you can use apt to search packages as well
[04:52] <Guest31111> I'm back
[04:52] <Guest31111> https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217660
[04:52] <Guest31111> i can't fix it
[04:52] -ubottu:#ubuntu- bugzilla.kernel.org bug 217660 in Drivers "Laptop internal keyboard not working on ASUS Vivobook Go E1504GA" [Blocking, New]
[05:07] <Guest31111> hello
[05:09] <ayohbit> hello
[05:40] <Guest31111> anyone got any ideas for a fix
[06:10] <JeffH_> For whatever reason, clang and it's associated tools are installed as clang-17.  Is there any way to rename this to 'clang'?
[06:12] <tomreyn> JeffH_: i'm not sure, but give   sudo update-alternatives --config cland    a try.
[06:13] <tomreyn> * clang
[06:13] <JeffH_> no alternatives
[06:14] <tomreyn> then the answer is a 'no'. although you can probably set the CC environment variable
[06:15] <JeffH_>  yeah.. it's not that big of a deal.. just means I have to configure vscode to find clang-tidy-17 rather than it just finding it.  Just thought I'd ask as a way to learn if there was some cool trick.  There is a cool trick, its just not supported. :D
[06:16] <tomreyn> yes, you could still do something like this https://gist.github.com/junkdog/70231d6953592cd6f27def59fe19e50d but that'd not be a good idea
[06:17] <tomreyn> because clang points to a fixed version per ubuntu release, i think
[06:17] <JeffH_> Thanks for the info.  I'll just keep it as is.
[06:17] <tomreyn> sudo update-alternatives --config cc    may work, though
[06:18] <JeffH_> nope.. only one alternative in link group
[06:20] <tomreyn> okay, then, yes, update the other end
[06:20] <JeffH_> as I said, I'm not THAT worried about it.  Thanks for the help though.
[06:21] <tomreyn> you're welcome. next release may point to 17 ;-)   https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?exact=1&keywords=clang
[06:22] <JeffH_> cool. I'm just messing around with Linux.. who knows if I'll still be running it at that point.
[06:23] <tomreyn> since these are in universe, if you're doing development where security patching matters, you may want to buy the Canonical offering which provides you with 'extra' security updates.
[06:24] <JeffH_> I'm just screwing around for something to do..  I don't need to run Linux.
[06:25] <tomreyn> ok, i got it. :)
[06:25] <elordenador> Guys, any tip of securing a SSH server?
[06:25] <elordenador> I'm using a 22.04 LTS VPS .
[06:26] <SwedeMike> elordenador: fail2ban or equivalent is good.
[06:27] <elordenador> fail2ban is the name of the package too?
[06:28] <tomreyn> !info fail2ban jammy
[06:28] <tomreyn> that's a yes.
[06:29] <elordenador> Ok, I will be reading fail2ban documentation.
[06:29] <tomreyn> you should use public/private keys and only allow those for ssh authentication
[06:29] <elordenador> thanks.
[06:29] <elordenador> yes, I didn't take time to secure it at all, I only changed the SSH port to another.
[06:29] <tomreyn> i.e. noooo passwords on ssh login (you can still use passwords for local logins)
[06:30] <tomreyn> if you already changed the ssh port (are no longer listening on 22) then fail2ban will be much less useful
[06:30] <elordenador> I have still logs of people trying to login into the machine so it didn't got a success
[06:30] <elordenador> The Issues is that 3 people login into the SSH
[06:30] <elordenador> and the other two didn't make their keys yet.
[06:30] <elordenador> so I cannot disable password auth yet.
[06:31] <elordenador> until these two creates their keys and uploads them.
[06:33] <tomreyn> unless you create key pairs for them, which isn't good practice, but better practice than continued support for password authentication (my personal opinion)
[06:33] <tomreyn> there are other options, such as 2FA, https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-openssh
[06:35] <tomreyn> if you have or can have a separate management network with VPN access to it, you may want to restrict SSH access to that
[06:36] <tomreyn> (i.e. make sshd only bind to that its management network ip address)
[06:37] <tomreyn> elordenador: ^
[06:40] <elordenador> tomreyn, I don't have vpn access to it
[06:40] <tomreyn> i see
[06:42] <elordenador> Ah, I see that it can be bought
[06:42] <elordenador> I will tell my partner to buy that and I will use SSH only to that
[06:45] <tomreyn> it's what you would do for a fleet of servers / VMs, i'm not sure it's necessarily worth it for a single VPS. by limiting sshd to private/public key authentication and moving sshd to a different port, and possibly also limiting access to it to certain fixed ip addresses or network ranges (via iptabes), you should be good enough
[06:46] <elordenador> I want to take the maximum security for that
[06:46] <elordenador> If running ssh only in a vpn will be more secure
[06:47] <tomreyn> it will then be as secure as the VPN configuration combined with the ssh configuration
[06:47] <elordenador> also, my IP changes every time I restart router, so, if I configure iptables to only allow my ip and my partners ones, I will get auto-banned by doing that
[06:48] <tomreyn> that's why i mentioned "network ranges" (i.e. ISP)
[06:55] <tomreyn> note that you've not made any progress if you'll harden ssh a lot but then expose an insecure service on another port, such as a web based server administration system or a web application which is subject to (known now or later) security vulnerabilities. or if you don't install updates to all services and the kernel and make those apply on time (before a successful exploit takes place).
[07:04] <elordenador> yes, I know tom, first SSH, and next is apache, the last Time I taken a upgrade was yesterday.
[07:10] <Kadigan> elordenador: you can always sign up for a Dynamic DNS solution (a service that receives updates from you whenever your IP changes, and assigns a domain name to it dynamically), and then use reverse DNS to point to your IP; the security of this solution isn't all that great, but it's an option in a world when static IPv4 assignments from the ISP are unobtainium.
[07:10] <tomreyn> elordenador: i was more hitting at ensuring updating is a regular process, by using "unattended-upgrades", ensuring updates are actually applied by using "needrestart", possibly live kernel patching (ubuntu pro), possibly automated reboots after security patching
[07:11] <tomreyn> Kadigan: this would only work with a firewall which would update rules based on where hostnames point to, and by the time those change.
[07:11] <tomreyn> which firewalls usually don't do.
[07:12] <Kadigan> True enough. I usually really use this with webserver security instead, where I can have it do a look-up at connection time. But it's possible to do with a script updating it, should one be determined to use it.
[07:13] <Kadigan> Though I don't know if I'd use it for hard access security - it's more a convenience solution. Being able to only connect to SSH via VPN would probably be the most secure, short of having to walk up to the server physically.
[07:14] <Kadigan> It should be noted that no security solution will ever replace regularly updating software packages.
[07:17] <Kadigan> It's what I use, incidentally.
[07:17] <Kadigan> (the VPN thing)
[07:50] <SAyF> merhaba
[07:50] <SAyF> naber
[07:51] <oerheks> hi SAyF
[07:51] <SAyF> hi
[07:52] <SAyF> where are you from
[07:52] <oerheks> ubuntu volunteer team, how can we help you?
[07:53] <SAyF> I dont need help, I want just chatting
[07:53] <jailbreak> !offtopic
[08:03] <t30> hi
[08:04] <t30> hi guys
[08:04] <t29> naber lan trrek
[08:04] <t30> kes eşşek
[08:05] <SAyF> esekmisin sen
[08:18] <TheWebFox> so, I have issues with my Internal Microphone
[08:18] <TheWebFox> turns out they have been fixed in upstream by patch https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/cfff2a7794d23b03a3ddedd318bf1df1876c598f
[08:18] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Commit cfff2a7 in torvalds/linux "ASoC: amd: yc: Fix a non-functional mic on Lenovo 82TL"
[08:18] <TheWebFox> (yes, I have 82TL ... ) but I need my microphone for meetings
[08:27] <TheWebFox> nevermind I found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/BuildYourOwnKernel#:~:text=The%20source%20code%20which%20generated,%2Dunsigned%2D%24(uname%20%2Dr)
[08:28] <TheWebFox> I'll backport the patch & recompile the kernel ... Linux
[09:59] <webchat8> Hello everyone, I just experienced data loss and am livid :(
[10:00] <webchat8> After 3 months of trying to work with the snap version of firefox and running into constant annoyances, I decided to switch to the native binary.
[10:00] <tomreyn> oh, you snap removed and didn't know that would delete your profile, hmm
[10:00] <webchat8> So I made a backup of my .mozilla directory where all the profile data have been stored for 20 years
[10:01] <webchat8> tomreyn: firefox is VERY careful not to remove profile data when you mess with various binary versions
[10:01] <webchat8> but the dweebs at snap think it's smart to bundle the app and its data???
[10:02] <tomreyn> TheWebFox: quoting from #ubuntu-kernel: "In addition to [the mainline kernel source at https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-kernel/ubuntu/+source/linux/ and builds at https://kernel.ubuntu.com/mainline/ ] we also now have https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu-kernel-next which are snapshots of upstream tagged release for each major series; with all ubuntu patches applied and integrated & known to pass build, boot, regression testing. Cause mainline
[10:02] <tomreyn> builds do not have many features that are applied in the ubuntu kernels (more hardening, secureboot tightening, not-yet mainlined apparmor features, etc)"
[10:02] <tomreyn> webchat8: i believe the snaps are maintained by mozilla (and there is a bug report about it)
[10:03] <webchat8> OMG, this is mozilla's fault...
[10:03] <webchat8> Fuck, I should have serious backups in place
[10:03] <webchat8> Been saying that for 15 years
[10:04] <tomreyn> please mind the language
[10:04] <webchat8> Sorry, I'm just so disjaunted
[10:04] <webchat8> Working with the snap version of firefox was so frustrating
[10:04] <tomreyn> you can try to undelete files
[10:05] <webchat8> I think it's dead, in the panic, I reinstalled the snap, and it reimported my old profiles
[10:05] <tomreyn> there are also snap snapshots, i do not know whether those still exist after removing a package, or whether they contain user data to begin with
[10:05] <webchat8> Yes, I saw a message talking about snapshooting the data at uninstall
[10:06] <webchat8> I will look into the snap snapshots
[10:06] <webchat8> Thanks for giving me hope & a path to work with
[10:06] <tomreyn> good luck!
[10:06] <tomreyn> and, yes, you want backups
[10:06] <lotuspsychje> see also photorec to recover data
[10:08] <webchat8> There is hope:
[10:08] <webchat8> "Snapshots are generated manually with the snap save command and automatically when a snap is removed (unless --purge
[10:08] <webchat8>  is used with remove, in which case no snapshot is created). A snapshot
[10:08] <webchat8> can be used to backup the state of your snaps, revert snaps to a
[10:08] <webchat8> previous state and to restore a fresh snapd installation to a previously
[10:08] <webchat8>  saved state."
[10:10] <tomreyn> please do not paste multi-line output here. you're currently quieted (we wont see what you write). this will be automatically undone shortly.
[10:10] <webchat8> Right...
[10:11] <webchat8> I've lost my IRC manners. I've been using IRC since 1999
[10:16] <webchat8> I see a /var/lib/snapd/snapshots/4_firefox_VER_ID.zip
[10:23] <webchat8> tomreyn: you saved my bacon. 'sudo snap restore 4' got the data back.
[10:23] <webchat8> Now I need to figure out how to move it to the right place.
[10:26] <tomreyn> webchat8: nice. you should probably "cp -pr" your profile to ~/.mozilla/firefox/ - however, you'll need to edit profile.txt and claim it is compatible to (version lower than or equal to) your other installation's version
[10:27] <webchat8> If I upgrade native FF to the same version, that should limit any incompatibility risks
[10:28] <tomreyn> actually edit ~/.mozilla/firefox/profiles.ini topoint to your existing profile (or run firefox -P and import it there)
[10:28] <webchat8> Thanks for the helpful suggestions
[10:28] <webchat8> Sorry about my earlier outbursts
[10:30] <oerheks> :-)
[10:30] <tomreyn> they were understandable for lack of backups, and others have done a lot worse. note that only the snap variant is supported, and you're loosing the isolation snap provides.
[10:32] <webchat8> The isolation is causing me several pain points
[10:32] <webchat8> Mostly around saving, which consistently defaults to the wrong place
[10:33] <webchat8> And launching external apps like the bittorrent client
[10:33] <tomreyn> if you are wondering how to backup, there are borgbackup, duplicity, restic, sbackup and https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup
[10:33] <webchat8> Thanks! I will definitely look these up
[10:34] <webchat8> I've been saying I must backup for 15 years...
[10:34] <tomreyn> there are also GUI front-ends for most if not all of these
[10:36] <tomreyn> there are "snap connect", "--classic" and other methods for 'hole pinching' into the snap isolation, but your mileage may vary.
[10:36] <webchat8> OK, also having two upgrade channels is a PITA
[10:37] <webchat8> Using a PPA, I will get everything in a single apt update
[10:37] <tomreyn> i'm not really trying to convince you otherwise, just making sure you know what the results of your choices are.
[10:39] <webchat8> I appreciate that. I was just listing my pain points :)
[10:40] <webchat8> Maybe in a year or two, mozilla will iron out the UX, and I'll give it another shot
[10:43] <i-Areos> I'm not happy with wayland specially desktoo recordin
[10:46] <tomreyn> i-Areos: are you referring to gnome-shell/mutter on wayland and the ctrl-alt-shift-r GUI and application?
[10:47] <tomreyn> webchat8: took me a while to re-find this: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/firefox-as-a-snap-package/td-p/4704
[10:48] <i-Areos> tomreyn Kazam not working on wayland
[10:50] <tomreyn> webchat8: actually this https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/firefox-as-a-snap-package/m-p/11019/highlight/true#M4976 - there is also https://bugs.launchpad.net/snap-store-desktop/+bug/1984173 - but i feel like there was yet another bug report on bugzilla.mozilla.org about the profile removal which i cannot seem to find anymore
[10:50] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 1984173 in snap-store-desktop "Reinstalling Firefox snap deletes profile" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[10:50] <webchat8> Thanks a bunch for all these great references
[10:51] <tomreyn> https://askubuntu.com/questions/1439307/is-it-possible-to-recover-snap-firefox-secret-profile-data-after-removing-the-sn#answers seems to eb what you did
[10:55] <LuckyMan> hi Gs Connect isn't working on 23.10
[11:45] <webchat8> tomreyn: I restored everything from the snapshot and purged snapd from the system. Thank you so much, you saved my day.
[11:49] <lotuspsychje> !cookie | tomreyn
[11:57] <MikeTheSpike> Hi.
[12:19] <TheWebFox> Linux ioanlaptop 6.5.0-9-generic #9 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Fri Oct 20 14:43:04 EEST 2023 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[12:20] <TheWebFox> and lo and behold my microphone works
[12:20] <TheWebFox> can I get the upstream patch into 6.5.0-9-generic on Ubuntu?
[12:24] <oerheks> TheWebFox, that patch will automaticly get published in some kernel, which one i don' t know. your url does not tell that.
[12:27] <TheWebFox> 6.6-rc1
[12:27] <TheWebFox> is the earliest kernel to include the patch
[12:27] <TheWebFox> Is gonna be a long time till it gets into mantic's kernels
[12:28] <TheWebFox> oerheks, the point is, on Lenovo 82TL, the internal microphone does not work at all, until you disable Alsa UCM in pipewire and install this kernel patch
[12:31] <TheWebFox> in the past I've merged contributions in the Linux kernel, if I make a .patch from 6.5.0-9 source code with the modification and submit it to mailing list with explaination/ to launchpad bugs ?
[12:32] <TheWebFox> is it possible to get it merged earlier directly into Ubuntu, so all Yoga 7 Slim X Pro owners can use their internal microphone, it's literally a 5 line patch, adding below 82V2 the 82TL to the DMI list of devices
[12:46] <lotuspsychje> TheWebFox: could this be something for you? https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-patch-pilots/37705
[12:53] <admin__> msg NickServ IDENTIFY admin__ <password>
[12:56] <i-Areos> ok
[12:59] <scat> test
[12:59] <leftyfb> admin__: what do you need help with?
[13:00] <admin__> are you talking to me?
[13:00] <leftyfb> yes
[13:01] <admin__> nothing thank you i wanted to know how this irc works thats all
[13:01] <leftyfb> admin__: feel free to test and ask for help with IRC in #libera. Please /part this channel until you are done testing with nick changes
[13:02] <admin__> thank you
[13:12] <TheWebFox> lotuspsychje, that's for non-kernel packages
[13:12] <TheWebFox> you adopt a package and tend & care to it
[13:12] <TheWebFox> nobody is gonna give me linux-generic
[13:12] <TheWebFox> LOL
[13:34] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:35] <TheWebFox> hi BluesKaj
[13:36] <BluesKaj> hi TheWebFox
[13:36] <TheWebFox> this is support channel for ubuntu related discussion #ubuntu-discuss for off topic #ubuntu-offtopic
[13:37] <lotuspsychje> we know that TheWebFox
[13:37] <TheWebFox> lotuspsychje, I thought BluesKaj was new
[13:38] <lotuspsychje> BluesKaj is oldskool :p
[13:40] <BluesKaj> hehe
[13:43] <Apachez> anyone who remember whats the command to run so you dont have to disconnect/reconnect a usbdrive when you have freshly partitioned and reformated it?
[13:44] <Habbie> partprobe?
[13:44] <Apachez> ahh yes, thanks! :)
[14:42] <ComputerTech> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/p8Pywp8cCQ/
[14:42] <ComputerTech> Not quite sure why i can't use pip normally in the terminal anymore
[14:43] <ComputerTech> it was working fine before i upgraded to 23.04(i was using 22.04 previously)
[14:43] <ComputerTech> any ideas?
[14:43] <ComputerTech> and no, i don't want to use a virtual environment, i just want to be able to use pip directly in my terminal like before
[14:58] <mcc> What is the ubuntu-bug package name for the login screen?
[15:05] <mcc> gdm3? is this it?
[15:18] <tomreyn> mcc: if you're using ubuntu with the default (gnome-like) login screen, yes
[15:19] <tomreyn> (that's in "ubuntu", the main, gnome-based Ubuntu flavor, not "kubuntu, "xubuntu", "lubuntu" etc.)
[15:24] <mcc> thanks
[15:27] <ComputerTech> nvm, i figured a workaround, just using pipx works fine
[15:27] <ComputerTech> :>
[15:27] <ComputerTech> for anyone who also has that error
[15:38] <mcc> Yesterday I successfully executed ubuntu-bug. Today I tried running it and saw: Command 'ubuntu-bug' not found, but can be installed with: sudo apt install apport". What could have happened?
[15:38] <leftyfb> mcc: grep apport /var/log/dpkg.log
[15:40] <mcc> in that log i see a "startup packages remove" followed by apport-gtk being removed. a few seconds later it installs systemd-coredump, which i do remember installing. maybe i ran an autormeove around the same time and forgot.
[15:40] <mcc> thx\
[15:42] <golden> hi
[15:48] <mcc> When I run ubuntu-bug, or something else forces a web browser to open, I get a VERY short notification box at the top of the screen saying "firefox is ready". I would have expected firefox comes to the front. Is this a sign of something going wrong, or something I can configure, or an intentional design decision or what?
[15:58] <iconoclast_hero> I have two different application selectors at the bottom of my screen and I want to disable one of them.  I don't know what the "upper" one is called so I can figure out where it is and get rid of it: https://imgur.com/a/BAJJpOE
[16:00] <oerheks>  gnome-shell-extension-ubuntu-dock perhaps?
[16:00] <oerheks> or cairo?
[16:00] <oerheks> https://ubunlog.com/en/6-of-the-most-popular-docks-for-ubuntu-and-derivatives/
[16:01] <mcc> Also, what would y'all recommend as the most convenient way to flit files (like screenshots) between an Android phone and a laptop (probably on the same network)?
[16:02] <xangua> Kde connect mcc
[16:02] <iconoclast_hero> it was an extension, thank you.
[16:02] <oerheks> mcc nautilus
[16:02] <iconoclast_hero> i installed rhino with a shared home directory and it effed everything up
[16:03] <iconoclast_hero> i don't _really_ care about a rolling release but I do want to escape the clutches of snapd.
[16:03] <mcc> oerheks like, plugging in with usb and mounting the drive you meN/
[16:03] <mcc> mean?
[16:04] <www2> hi i wand to upgrade to 23.10 but i do-release-upgrade say there is no new release
[16:04] <oerheks> mcc yes, that should work
[16:04] <oerheks> www2, correct, upgrade path is not released yet.
[16:04] <oerheks> if you cannot wait, use the -d option ( development)
[16:05] <mcc> www2 it might be a good idea to wait a few days to let them fix bugs anyway
[16:05] <www2> thanks when is the up upgrade path be relase?
[16:05] <oerheks> soon, no date given.
[16:05] <leftyfb> iconoclast_hero: anything not running snapd by default will not be ubuntu and not supported here
[16:05] <www2> Oke soon(TM)
[16:06] <iconoclast_hero> yes, we've had this conversation before.  however I'm presently on OS: Ubuntu 23.04 x86_64
[16:08] <xangua> You want to escape snap and then installed a rolling distro supposed to be based on snap? 🤔
[16:09] <oerheks> rolling sounds awesome.
[16:12] <iconoclast_hero> rhino is based on snap?
[16:13] <oerheks> what is rhino?
[16:13] <iconoclast_hero> "For example, the 2023.1 release comes with the latest Linux 6.4 kernel series by default. Ubuntu fans who don't like Snaps would also love to hear that Rhino Linux doesn't include Snap apps, nor Flatpak apps.Aug 8, 2023"
[16:13] <oerheks> no discussion about derivates plesee
[16:13] <iconoclast_hero> I'm answering a question asked of me.
[16:14] <oerheks> you asked about rhino, we don' t know.
[16:14] <iconoclast_hero> no, in fact, i did not.
[16:15] <iconoclast_hero> I asked a question about how my gnome desktop in Ubuntu 23.04 was being displayed and made a statement that it got messed up because i shared my home directory.
 rhino is based on snap? and then you answered yourself
[16:16] <leftyfb> [12:02:50] <iconoclast_hero> i installed rhino with a shared home directory and it effed everything up
[16:17] <leftyfb> oh, he left
[16:18] <TheWebFox> leftyfb, he asked that question just to advertise rhino
[16:19] <TheWebFox> and then answered his own question LOL
[16:19] <oerheks> there is a rhino package in universe, not sure it is maintained.
[16:22] <TheWebFox> oerheks, he mean rhino linux, a distro based on ubuntu, I think
[16:24] <TheWebFox> although rhino - the JavaScript interpreter is maintained by both Debian & some Ubuntu maintainers
[16:37] <BerryKing18> hi, I'm experiencing this problem. on this page i see a patch but idk what version of ubuntu its for, or how to apply it. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=217660
[16:37] -ubottu:#ubuntu- bugzilla.kernel.org bug 217660 in Drivers "Laptop internal keyboard not working on ASUS Vivobook Go E1504GA" [Blocking, New]
[16:41] <oerheks> BerryKing18, i see no patch, just a arch message it was fixed in 6.2, which was not?
[16:43] <oerheks> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/2037768
[16:43] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2037768 in linux (Ubuntu) "Laptop internal keyboard not working on ASUS Vivobook Go E1504GA" [Undecided, Confirmed]
[16:45] <oerheks> nor in our bugreport.. weird
[16:47] <BerryKing18> how do i apply the patch
[16:49] <oerheks> i see no patch?
[16:56] <mcc> Got Nautlus to crash while accessing an SMB server. journalctl said something about failing to start "notifier crash service". What do I need to do to ensure the crash report / coredump makes it to the appropriate place? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/SKJGXcxQ/image.png
[16:58] <mcc> Also appears Nautilus does not generate image-preview icons while looking at SMB? I assume that's intentional?
[16:58] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Did it not bring up a crash window?
[16:59] <mcc> @eickmeyer no, it did not, and if you look at the journalctl log there it seems to be saying it *attempted* to bring up a crash window and somehow failed.
[16:59] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Ok, let's see if we can get the crash report uploaded regardless.
[16:59] <mcc> so i guess there are two "bugs" here, that nautilus crashed and that update-notifier-crash.service failed to launch
[16:59] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Go into /var/crash and see if there's anything in there regarding nautilus.
[17:00] <mcc> @eickmeyer yes, there's a .crash from the time of the crash.
[17:00] <Eickmeyer> mcc: type `apport {name of that file}`.
[17:00] <mcc> I also have systemd-coredump turned on. Don't know if that's helpful (also don't know if a coredump would contain sensitive information, such as smb passwords, for a nautilus that crashes while doing smb)
[17:01] <mcc> @eickmeyer i have the apt "apport" package installed, and I have an "ubuntu-bug", but I do not have an apport command line tool.
[17:01] <mcc> i mean, i have an ubuntu-bug command line tool.
[17:01] <Eickmeyer> mcc: apport is a command line tool though....
[17:01] <tomreyn> mcc: the ">" characters to the right of your screenshot of a terminal emulator running journalctl indicates that lines continue to the right (but we don't see that). you'd better post the relevant logs online directly, by using, for example:  journalctl --since="Oct 20 12:53:34" --until="Oct 20 12:53:42" |& nc termbin.com 9999
[17:02] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Sorry, apport-bug
[17:03] <tomreyn> mcc: Please keep working with Eickmeyer on this, my note is for later.
[17:03] <mcc> @eickmeyer ok. now it's working. the file is 23 MB, can you assure me either that this .crash file is unlikely to include (for example as part of a memory dump) my SMB passwords, or that the .crash file is only readable by verified ubuntu developers
[17:03] <mcc> i am nervous about this because  when i logged into smb i selected "save password until logout"
[17:04] <Eickmeyer> mcc: It will upload what it needs from your logs. Apport is smart like that and is the background process for ubuntu-bug. Also, it will make your report private automatically if necessary.
[17:04] <mcc> ok thanks
[17:05] <mcc> @eickmeyer usually when i file a bug, for example with ubuntu-bug, it opens a web browser. this time, this did not happen. how do i find the bug i just filed and/or confirm it filed? https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FzyU6uFv/image.png
[17:06] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Looks like it was unable for whatever reason. Try it with ubuntu-bug this time.
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> mcc: My clue was "unable to find cloud specific data"
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> mcc: And I have one more trick up my sleeve beyond this.
[17:07] <mcc> @tomreyn https://termbin.com/qpm1
[17:08] <mcc> @tomreyn "/usr/share/apport/apport-gtk not found". my expected behavior is if ubuntu needs this for a basic function like gui crash reporting this would have been installed automatically.
[17:09] <mcc> note that, as i think i mentioned earlier, ubuntu-bug mysteriously disappeared from my system in the last ~24 hours and i had to manually re-apt install "apport". i didn't request apport-gtk or anything
[17:10] <Eickmeyer> yikes-face .jpg
[17:10] <tomreyn> you seem to be running a graphical desktop on this system. which graphical desktop are you using? gnome?
[17:10] <mcc> also here's my attempt to run ubuntu-bug on the crash file. https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/IYWKYxo4/image.png
[17:10]  * Eickmeyer goes looking for recent nautilus bugs
[17:11] <tomreyn> "error 6 in libgtk-4.so.1.1200.2"
[17:11] <mcc> @tomreyn i am running a completely stock 23.10.1 installed from usb stick on (what i understood to be) a clean partition two days ago. I have made minimal changes, the biggest one being that i installed the dock-to-panel gnome extension and turned off ubuntu dock.
[17:12] <tomreyn> i assume you needed to remove the "ubuntu-desktop" package for that?
[17:12] <Eickmeyer> No new nautilus bugs.
[17:12] <mcc> tomreyn: no. i did not uninstall the ubuntu dock. i turned off ubuntu dock in the "extensions" app thingy.
[17:13] <Eickmeyer> I'm assuming the crash got logged in the crash tracker, though.
[17:13] <tomreyn> so    apt list --installed ubuntu-desktop    says it is installed?
[17:13] <mcc> if i search my cmdline history for "apt remove", I find I removed gnome-tweaks at some point (I installed it again immediately after), and i also removed gnome-software (I had installed it shortly before to see if I wanted it, the answer was no, it did not convince me it offered something ubuntu app center did not). if I search my cmdline history for "apt autoremove" I find i ran it once, shortly after  removing gnome-software
[17:13] <mcc> @tomreyn https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/sYvKmuOa/image.png
[17:14] <mcc> My experience so far is that 23.10 is buggy in a way that 23.04, which I have been running dual boot on a desktop for some months, is not. I am interested in getting all these bugs/oddities I am experiencing logged, so at least my buggy experience is at some level helpful.
[17:15] <mcc> I am saying this to suggest maybe the mysterious disappearance of ubuntu-bug (requiring me to apt install apport a couple hours ago) is one of these 23.10 bugs.
[17:16] <tomreyn> mcc: i would have believed a "yes, it's installed", too ;)
[17:17] <mcc> @tomreyn sure. just wanted to make sure you had all the information.
[17:17] <Eickmeyer> ubuntu-bug is part of apport which is installed as part of ubuntu-minimal-desktop so somehow that metapackage got uninstalled which means "sudo apt autoremove" would have "autoremove"-d it.
[17:17] <mcc> @eickmeyer ok. ubuntu-minimal-desktop is not a registered dependency of ubuntu-desktop then?
[17:17] <Eickmeyer> No, the other way around.
[17:19] <mcc> *thinks* ok. so ubuntu-minimal-desktop depends on ubuntu-desktop, and ubuntu 23.10 on fresh install despite installing apport does not register either ubuntu-minimal-desktop or apport as a dependency, meaning the first time I ran autoremove after fresh install apport got zapped? do i understand correctly?
[17:20] <mcc> Should I apt install anything else (such as apport-gtk) and see if it fixes ubuntu-bug/apport-bug's sudden refusal to open a firefox window (I did successfully file two bugs with a couple hours ago, after manually re-installing apport, and *THOSE* times firefox was able to open tabs for them fine)?
[17:20] <tomreyn> i'm looking at https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2023.10&package=nautilus&from=2023-10-20&to=2023-10-21 but i assume the submitted crash will take some time to be analyzed and is not yet showing up there
[17:21] <mcc> is there a log on my system i could check to notify that a log was in fact sent to the server?
[17:21] <mcc> to verify. i mean
[17:21] <tomreyn> there is probably /var/log/apport* which *may* have such information
[17:22] <Eickmeyer> mcc: It's a metapackage which means it contains no actual code, but is more of a set of installation instructions to install groups of packages.
[17:22] <Eickmeyer> Still, uninstalling metapackages from your system that it comes preinstalled with is *always* a bad idea.
[17:22] <tomreyn> there is probably also /var/log/apt/history.log which could tell you why you don't have apport-gtk installed
[17:23] <mcc> @eickmeyer sure, i understand the principle. what i don't understand is how the package got "marked as uninstalled" (deselected? is that the term?) by dpkg
[17:23] <mcc> @eickmeyer again the only things i have *manually* removed since install are gnome-tweaks and gnome-software (neither installed by default, unless i'm missing something critical)
[17:23] <tomreyn> i do assume apport-gtk was marked as automatically instaleld and got autremoved after removal of the ubuntu-desktop-minimal package then
[17:24] <mcc> gnome-software as far as i know is like a gnome upstream alternative to "app center"
[17:24] <Eickmeyer> If you uninstall a hard dependency of a package, even accidentally, it will want to uninstall every single hard dependency and will mark packages that were soft dependencies as autoremovable as long as they're not soft or hard dependencies of anything else.
[17:24] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Sadly, not anymore (RE: gnome-software)
[17:25] <mcc> "If you uninstall a hard dependency of a package, even accidentally…" okay. are you suggesting i did that?
[17:25] <Eickmeyer> It's quite possible.
[17:27] <mcc> @eickmeyer as mentioned, if i "history | grep apt | grep remove", the *only* things i found i manually uninstalled are gnome-software, gnome-tweaks, and thunderbird (sorry didn't mention thunderbird before). gnome-software and gnome-tweaks are not installed by default. thunderbird is but shouldn't be relevant. i understand this "history" could be incomplete; is there a log that would  verify i accidentally uninstalled something else?
[17:27] <mcc> @tomreyn here is the complete contents of my apport.log. https://termbin.com/pwu9
[17:28] <mcc> @eickmeyer also, would you recommend i now manually install gnome-desktop-minimal, since we believe it is absent?
[17:29] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Unfortunately, your apt history won't show that because it won't show dependencies that were uninstalled, including if you run "sudo apt autoremove".
[17:29] <tomreyn> mcc: i assume that "is_closing_session(): Could not determine DBUS socket." is a follow-up error of something else going wrong. but i'm not into dbus or gnome enough to understand this.
[17:30] <Eickmeyer> mcc: gnome-desktop-minimal is a metapackage from upstream Debian which gives the vanilla GNOME desktop.
[17:30] <tomreyn> we were previously talking about ubuntu-desktop-minimal, i believe.
[17:31] <Eickmeyer> tomreyn: He asked specifically if he should install gnome-desktop-minimal.
[17:31] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Basically, don't install gnome-desktop-minimal, it's unneeded.
[17:33] <ioria> i wasn't aware  of a gnome-desktop-minimal pkg
[17:33] <Eickmeyer> !info gnome-desktop-minimal
[17:33] <Eickmeyer> ...
[17:33] <mcc> @eickmeyer okay. i apologize if i am repeating myself. but here is how i see it: my understanding is dpkg (underlying apt) has a number of packages which are "selected". these are the packages which dpkg believes "must" be installed along with all their dependencies. if you apt-get install a package, dpkg will "select" it and install its dependencies. if you apt-get uninstall a package, dpkg will "deselect" it and install the
[17:33] <mcc> uninstalled package only. If you later apt-get autoremove, it scans to see if any packages are "orphaned" (not a dependency of any selected package) and if so, it removes them. based on this, i would assume apt-get autoremove shortly after a fresh ubuntu install is *always* a "safe" operation, because anything that "shouldn't" be removed was "selected" (or something that depends on it was selected) during install. so it seems if my
[17:33] <mcc> autoremove killed an essential package, when I have not *manually* uninstalled (IE: apt removed, deselected) any built-in packages except for thunderbird, then this implies there is a bug in ubuntu. am i missing anything?
[17:33] <Eickmeyer> Apparently not an actual thing.
[17:34] <mcc> Also, not that it matters, but I'm a she
[17:34] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Don't write such long stuff.
[17:34] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Sorry. :)
[17:34] <mcc> s'ok
[17:34] <tomreyn> Eickmeyer: thanks (i noticed, but assumed mcc had mixed those up)
[17:35] <mcc> tomreyn: i guess the question i meant to ask is, "y'all are telling me something that shouldn't have been uninstalled got uninstalled. is there a package or metapackage i should manually install to ensure EVERYTHING i'm supposed to have comes back?"
[17:36] <Eickmeyer> mcc: So, apt is a package handler on top of dpkg. dpkg does the nitty-gritty "installation" stuff, but apt does the conflict resolution and dependency resolution, including soft dependencies, hard dependencies, and calculates what can be removed based on what is no longer needed. It's done based on a set of relationships predetermined in the packaging: Depends, Recommmends, and Suggests.
[17:37] <ioria> ubuntu-desktop^ (<-note the caret) mcc
[17:37] <ioria> nuclear option, btw
[17:38] <Eickmeyer> There's also Breaks, Replaces, and others, but it gets real complicated.
[17:38]  * Eickmeyer is an Ubuntu MOTU
[17:39] <mcc> ioria: do you recommend this? What will it do? I am looking it up on google but it's a little confusing.
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> mcc: If you really want to learn about the packaging and the relationships, and get in-depth, check this out: https://packaging.ubuntu.com/html/
[17:39] <Eickmeyer> Actually, that's out-dated.
[17:40] <ioria> if you broke your de, yes mcc
[17:40] <mcc> @eickmeyer: ok. i guess what i should have asked was, it seems a package could be in one of three states, uninstalled, or "manually installed" meaning it's a package that will not be removed by autoremoved, or installed but a candidate to be removed by autoremove. what vocabulary should i be using for these three states to ensure i am understood?
[17:41] <mcc> ioria: ok. at this moment i am interested not just in fixing my de but gathering enough information to ensure anything that's "wrong" here is properly filed in a bug with ubuntu. will installing ubuntu-desktop with caret destroy such information?
[17:41] <tomreyn> mcc: i think what ioria said is the correct answer to the question you asked me.
[17:41] <mcc> ok. thanks.
[17:42] <tomreyn> i should say i'm guessing, since we can't be exactly sure what happened there.
[17:42] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Ok, so manually installed is anything you manually install via "sudo apt install". If you have something that was manually installed and you wish to return it to automatically installed, you can use "sudo apt-mark auto {package}".
[17:43] <mcc> the possible bugs I identify in this conversation are: - at a particular moment in the last 48hr, some number of packages including apport got uninstalled, possibly as part of an apt autoremove, and no one has yet convinced me the event was caused by me rather than ubuntu; - nautilus crashed while accessing smb; - when nautilus crashed, i did not properly get a GUI notification; apport-bug/ubuntu-bug suddenly can't open firefox windows
[17:44] <mcc> ...and also i'm still not sure whether my nautilus crash was properly filed either automatically on crash (when apport-gtk failed to install), or by me manually calling ubuntu-bug.
[17:45] <mcc> anyway, i'll go ahead and see what the caret thing does. one minute
[17:45] <Eickmeyer> mcc: So, I'm not sure you're finding bugs other than the nautilus crash. Bugs are about finding problems and keeping others from running into the same issue, and most of what you're finding are problems local to your system, which makes them support issues, which means you're in the right place. Just because it's happening to you doesn't mean it's happening to everybody. :)
[17:47] <mcc> well, sure, but if i am one of the first people to install 23.10, and i see an unusual behavior that i cannot directly link to "something i did", then even without something like a consistent repro this sounds like a strong signal that my system-local issue *may* in fact be a bug that you're going to be seeing a lot more, possibly when 23.10 becomes eligible for dist-upgrade
[17:47] <mcc> idk
[17:48] <Eickmeyer> I assure you, you're not one of the first people to install 23.10. I have been running it since development opened. :)
[17:48] <ioria> mcc, are you experiencing  nautilus crashes ?
[17:51] <mcc> Ioria just the one so far. The start of this conversation was me trying to ensure it was properly registered in your crash database
[17:51] <ioria> i see
[17:52] <Eickmeyer> I'm fairly certain the second attempt got it registered in the crash database, but no actual bug was filed (might not need to be if a similar crash has been seen).
[17:52] <tomreyn> do bugs get filed automatically by daisy?
[17:52] <tomreyn> i was thinking crashes are just analyzed and go into errors.ubuntu.com and can then be inspected and bugss can be reported manually
[17:53] <Eickmeyer> tomreyn: Yes and no. Yes if daisy determines it to be new, no if daisy determines it to be a repeat of the same crash.
[17:53] <tomreyn> or semi-manually by clickon a button there rather
[17:53] <tomreyn> i see
[17:54] <Eickmeyer> And yes, I see mcc's crash in errors.ubuntu.com
[17:54]  * Eickmeyer has access to that.
[17:55] <tomreyn> do you see it listed here? https://errors.ubuntu.com/?release=Ubuntu%2023.10&package=nautilus&from=2023-10-20&to=2023-10-21
[17:55] <tomreyn> i would not know which one it is there, if any.
[17:56] <Eickmeyer> I'm looking in the past day.
[17:56] <tomreyn> only the last but one seems to be libgtk related
[17:57] <tomreyn> these pages are public btw (just the detailed ones are not)
[17:58] <Eickmeyer> Right, I have access to the details.
[17:58]  * tomreyn , too :)
[17:59] <Eickmeyer> Nice
[18:00] <mcc> @Eickmeyer okay I will not worry about that further then. Thanks.
[18:00] <tomreyn> mcc: but indeed, as this chat suggests, access to the analyzed crash 'logs' is limited to ubuntu developers and folks helping with bug triage.
[18:01] <mcc> Ok cool
[18:04] <Eickmeyer> mcc: The issue you have with nautilus seems to be an issue with UTF-8 (text) encoding in smb shares, and seems to be a fairly common occurrance of crashes in nautilus (including yours, 19 occurrances in the past day). Hence, you got no bug creation dialog.
[18:05] <mcc> Okay. Cool, sounds reasonable. Thanks for looking into it.
[18:05] <Eickmeyer> mcc: So, everyone seems to be aware of the issue and, if there isn't an upstream fix, I'm sure there will be one soon.
[18:06] <Eickmeyer> You're welcome.
[18:16] <mcc> @ioria: okay. sorry about the delay. i understand that this is a support channel not a bug channel, but i do want to file a bug so if you could help me a little more i'd appreciate it. i tried your ubuntu-support^ thing, and this is what I saw: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3b3Jeb9T/image.png
[18:17] <mcc> so yes, that's installing apport-gtk (good). But it's also installing thunderbird (bad). is this what you expect? does thunderbird being in the ^ list here imply that thunderbird is a dependency of ubuntu-desktop? does this imply that manually removing thunderbird could also remove ubuntu-desktop somehow?
[18:25] <tomreyn> mcc: the ubuntu-desktop *package* (not sure about the *task*, which we suggested you could install) *recommends* (not depends) on thunderbird. package ubuntu-desktop-minial does not. you can review information on these packages on https://packages.ubuntu.com/mantic/ubuntu-desktop and https://packages.ubuntu.com/mantic/ubuntu-desktop-minimal
[18:27] <mcc> thanks for the information
[18:29] <tomreyn> apt-cache show ubuntu-desktop^ | grep ^Package: | sed -e 's/Package: //' | sort -u
[18:29] <tomreyn> ... should list the packages the *task* would install
[18:36] <tomreyn> alternatively: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Tasksel#Tasks_List
[18:38] <mcc> that's useful, thanks. um, one more question. i did run sudo apt install ubuntu-desktop^. it said "note, selecting [package]" and then various "[package] is set to manually installed" packages. it then told me what it was about to install and asked if i should do it. i said "no". so i see it installed nothing. but— did entering the command, then saying no, change the "manually installed"/"selected" status?
[18:44] <tomreyn> i'm not sure, but based on what you say, it sounds like that's what happened.
[18:45] <tomreyn> you can change the status back to automatically installed using   sudo apt-mark auto <some-package-name>
[19:14] <mcc> Here is the bug I filed based on the above discussion, thank you all for answering my confused questions. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/2040014
[19:14] -ubottu:#ubuntu- Launchpad bug 2040014 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Installing then uninstalling gnome-software somehow killed apport" [Undecided, New]
[19:15] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Sadly, that's going to have to be marked invalid as it is 1) the wrong package, and 2) ubiquity certainly didn't do that as it wasn't installed at the time this occurred.
[19:16] <mcc> @eickmeyer: I told it to install to package "apt". That was what I wrote in the box. Can it be moved to the correct component?
[19:16] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Unfortunately, and I know you're not going to want to hear this, but the problem here is an accidental user error. :(
[19:17] <mcc> @eickmeyer: When I ran ubuntu-bug it asked what component to attach it to and I said "installation". i then changed it to apt after reviewing the information (I thought)
[19:18] <mcc> eickmeyer: *deep breath* can you explain to me what the user error was, because I have reviewed all logs carefully and i cannot find one
[19:20] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Not without deep-diving into what happened, and unfortunately I, nor any volunteer here, has any time to really dive into this in-depth. But I assure you, at some point, something got uninstalled that caused apport (the package that installs the ubuntu-bug command) to become uninstalled. The way that happened, I don't know, nor do I have the time to diagnose.
[19:20] <Eickmeyer> mcc: However, I do know that ubiquity (the system installer) certainly wasn't responsible as I have way too much in-depth knowledge in how it works.
[19:21] <mcc> Yeah. Like I said, filing against ubiquity was not my intent. (I initially THOUGHT ubiquity could be implicated, but then I realized I did an autoremove very shortly after system setup and that didn't do anything bad)
[19:21] <Eickmeyer> mcc: Unfortunately, there is no single system component this can be filed under, because it's (as I said before) a support issue and not a system bug.
[19:23] <mcc> *if* it's a user error, sure
[19:23] <Eickmeyer> It most certainly was, unfortunately. :(
[19:34] <tesseract> does anyone know if vlc in ubuntu 23.10 can do hw decoding on raspberry pi 5?
[19:34] <tesseract> i read that ubuntu now supports raspberry pi 5
[19:47] <leftyfb> tesseract: since the pi 5 hasn't been released yet, I don't think anyone here can answer that
[19:52] <oerheks> october 23 release ..
[20:56] <waveform> tesseract, it depends what you're decoding; one of the changes in the hardware on the Pi5 is that the GPU no longers supports h264 decode (because the CPU is now fast enough for that) but does support h265 decode (for example). That said, the upstream patches for mesa did make it into 23.10 so applications should be able to take advantage of the hardware
[20:58] <jsmooth> I've installed Apache2, but trying to start the service is says hte service doesn't exist
[21:06] <tomreyn> jsmooth: it's a lower case a, as in apache2, i would think
[21:07] <tomreyn> also, services are started automatically at install-time on ubuntu
[21:08] <oerheks> sudo systemctl status apache2
[21:10] <tesseract> waveform, wow. i am shocked it doesn't support h264 decode :/
[21:11] <waveform> tesseract, no need when the CPU is sufficiently fast that it can do it without breaking a sweat. This is the same case as when the pi4 removed hardware support for MPEG2 decode (which had hardware acceleration on the pi3 and below)
[21:11] <tesseract> waveform, do you know if it supports vp9?
[21:12] <tesseract> YouTube use that codec
[21:12] <tesseract> I want Firefox hw decode it
[21:13] <waveform> tesseract, the pi4 certainly didn't (which is why raspios shipped with the h264ify extension to "persuade" youtube to feed h264 streams to the pi which it could hw decode). I'm not sure about the 5, but I would *guess* no
[21:13] <jsmooth> I used lowercase
[21:13] <tesseract> waveform, but it matters when you let's say running a 1080p video while browsing
[21:14] <jsmooth> systemd says it's running
[21:14] <tesseract> GPU decoding is important. I want to use it as desktop workstation
[21:15] <tesseract> opening videos while browsing etc
[21:16] <tesseract> I am very disappointed that it doesn't support x264 decoding anymore
[21:16] <tomreyn> jsmooth: so i guess you're good?
[21:16] <tomreyn> jsmooth: what were you inquiring previously if not systemctl?
[21:18] <waveform> tesseract, it does support h264 decoding ... but not on the GPU because that's simply not necessary. Consider: would you want to add silicon to the GPU to support MPEG2 decoding? I'd hope not because it takes less than a single ARM to handle that these days. There's a "silicon budget" with these SoCs, and it's much better to spend it on supporting the codecs you *can't* support on the CPU cores (due to their complexity)
[21:20] <tesseract> waveform, but it will cause lag watching 1080p video while doing some other task because it eats CPU instead of gpu
[21:29] <oerheks> tesseract, but the pi 5 is not released yet
[21:29] <JanC> decoding doesn't necessarily use hardcoded hardware decoders; AFAIK nowadays many use special GPU programs to do the actual decoding, with hardware-accelerated instructions for some very common operations
[21:30] <JanC> the Pi might still have dedicated hardware blocks, I don't know
[21:32] <jsmooth> I get a page as if the server is down, but systemctl says apache is running
[21:36] <JanC> jsmooth: what do you mean by "as if the server is down"?
[21:38] <JanC> one possibility is that Apache is misconfigured, another (if browser & apache are on different computers) that you have a firewall running that blocks access to it...
[22:03] <Jim`> What are the chances of getting a Deskjet 2640 working ?
[22:03] <Jim`> Or working right away?
[22:04] <leftyfb> Jim`: plug it in and try it
[22:04] <Jim`> leftyfb: Would the Live disk be able to tell?
[22:05] <Jim`> before I go changing from Win
[22:05] <tomreyn> jsmooth: the fact that you "get a page" (unless that is generated by your web browser) would suggest that the httpd server is working, even though it may be responding with an error message.
[22:05] <oerheks> sure
[22:05] <Jim`> I don't like this whole "Change before 2025 or your going to have pay for hardware to run our fancy Win 11"
[22:06] <oerheks> why don' t you try live mode?
[22:07] <Jim`> oerheks: I suppose I can give it a shot. Most games are linux native now I play, and I'm only worried about the printer/scanner combo other than that
[22:10] <tomreyn> https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index lists 2645 as supported, but not 2640
[22:13] <tomreyn> https://superuser.com/questions/910071/deskjet-2540-wireless-connection-linux suggests that people got it to work with ubuntu 14.04 (!) + hplib, though
[22:35] <kaleido> how can i force apt to update properly and not just "hold back" upgrades?
[22:35] <JanC> Jim`: like others said: best is to just try it--and even if it doesn't work, replacing the printer/scanner is probably going to be cheaper than replacing your computer anyway...
[22:35] <kaleido> trying to guess the order when there are 18 updates is silly
[22:36] <oerheks> kaleido, use dist-upgrade then
[22:37] <Jim`> JanC: yeah in the end it's either "PAY FOR MORE HARDWARE SO YOU CAN RUN AN OS BOY!" or linux
[22:37] <kaleido> may i inquire as to the difference between dist-upgrade and upgrade?
[22:37] <kaleido> oerheks: and thank you!
[22:38] <kaleido> hmm, even dist-ugrade is holding packages back
[22:38] <JanC> I think *most* HP deskjet printers work on linux, but maybe not all their scanner do...
[22:38] <oerheks> kaleido, without knowing what packages, it will be fixed net update run after reboot.
[22:39] <JanC> but I haven't used any of them lately, so I'm not sure
[22:39] <guiverc> kaleido, view man `apt-get` or `man apt` & search for dist-upgrade to read differences
[22:39] <oerheks> guiverc, oh, good spot
[22:40] <guiverc> my release states "dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade command may therefore remove some packages. ..."
[22:40] <rbox> !phasedupdated | kaleido
[22:41] <rbox> !phasedupdates | kaleido
[22:57] <sem> Is it expected that 23.10 upgrade is still held back for me?
[22:58] <toddc> sem it will out in a few days
[22:59] <tomreyn> until this prints something, it's not available, yet: curl -s https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release | fgrep 23.10
[22:59] <JanC> the upgrade start was delayed a bit because of the issue that required a re-release of some ISOs
[23:12] <sem> ah ok i was under the impression that they replaced those packages and we were off to the races already. thanks
[23:20] <Apachez> Long shot but any HPE proliant server users in here? Back in the days you could download an ISO from HPE to boot from in order to update all the firmwares (motherboard, raidcontroller, nics etc) in one sweep (instead of having to find each and everyone manually on their site which also was only for windows). Similar to HP SmartStart but instead of aiding of installing OS with proper drivers this was only for firmware updates. Anyone who remembers what
[23:20] <Apachez> that ISO was called and if it still exists (handy when running Linux on the box)?
[23:20] <Habbie> Apachez, i don't know that, but did you check fwupdmgr?
[23:20] <oerheks> ehm, ubuntu and other linux versions use fwupdate tool
[23:21] <Habbie> oerheks, it's not always complete though
[23:21] <oerheks> not sure it does not meet his hardware ..
[23:21] <tomreyn> Apachez is referring ot the "SPP", "service pack for proliant"
[23:21] <Habbie> ah
[23:21] <oerheks> https://techlibrary.hpe.com/docs/enterprise/servers/icsp/webhelp/content/s_osdbuildplan_how_fw_add.html
[23:22] <oerheks> that points to https://www.hp.com/go/spp
[23:22] <oerheks> but check  ubuntu fwupdate first?
[23:25] <Apachez> oerheks: does fwupdate support offline systems?
[23:25] <Apachez> like is there an iso edition of fwupdate available?
[23:25] <Apachez> tomreyn: thanks! looks like what I was thinking of
[23:25] <Apachez> tomreyn: do you know if their naming of "gen11" refers to the gen number of the server (I assume so) ?
[23:26] <Apachez> as in you must select a gen10 spp for a gen10 server
[23:26] <tomreyn> Apachez: yes, refers to hardware generation
[23:26] <Apachez> great, now I also have to find out which gen the servers are
[23:26] <Apachez> why cant life just not be easy for once? ;)
[23:27] <tomreyn> i'm not sure whether or not they stoppped producing the isos, but they certainly put them behind a paywall
[23:27] <Apachez> yeah their shortlink is https://www.hpe.com/info/spp so they still seems to be around at least for gen7 and newer
[23:28] <Habbie> paywall or loginwall?
[23:28] <Apachez> they main great thing is that I dont have to manually download each and every firmware update and then convert it to be used in linux... but sure for an online system I would go for fwupdate/fwupdatemgr
[23:28] <Apachez> Habbie: sort of both... HPE account which you can only get if you have a HPE product
[23:29] <Apachez> my favorite was the 2 stage level to get vmware updates... first register HPE account, put in licenses... then get some intermediate license you use to put in at your vmware account... THEN you can download the HPE custom VMware ESXi images
[23:30] <Habbie> ouch
[23:30] <Apachez> like why not just put in the vmware license you already aquired at vmware site? nooooo
[23:30] <Apachez> its like videos of shopping in oldstyle soviet :)
[23:31] <Apachez> like you couldnt just grab a loaf of bread and go to the cashier, pay and leave... first you were in queue to get a ticket to get a loaf... then in a queue to get the loaf... then in queue to be able to pay for a cashier and finally the forth queue was the cashier and then you could leave (or something like that =)