[00:00] <persia> stani: Right.  First it gets fixed in development.  If it tests clean, and is critical, it gets moved to gutsy.  If it tests clean, and is critical, it gets moved to feisty.
[00:00] <stani> proppy: 13 december is debian import freeze
[00:00] <persia> proppy: It's automatic.  Nobody will forget.  Please don't file a sync bug for a new package now.
[00:01] <proppy> oh ok It will get synced anyway
[00:01] <proppy> I've forgot about this :)
[00:03] <stani> persia: i don't understand why hardy is ubuntu1 and gutsy is ubuntu0.1. What would be feisty? Is not better feisty 0.1, gutsy 0.2 and hardy 1?
[00:04] <stani> persia: other question: lintian returned this error
[00:04] <persia> stani: If you're applying the same patch, there's no need for feisty users to download it again for gutsy.  It must be ubuntu1 for hardy, as it's a new patch.  It must be ubuntu0.1 for earlier releases to force the upgrade on hardy.
[00:04] <stani> E: spe_0.8.2a+repack-<IP_ADDRESS>.04_source.changes: > >> bad-distribution-in-changes-file feisty
[00:04] <persia> The convention is because usually ubuntu1 also contains other changes to make the package better.  This is a somewhat special case.
[00:05] <persia> stani: Lintian does that.  Don't worry about it.  Just check to make sure you've spelled it correctly.
[00:05] <stani> ok, no need to change it then
[00:07] <blueyed> Wouldn't be the version for feisty ubuntu0.0.1, if the version for gutsy becomes ubuntu0.1?
[00:07] <stani> for gutsy I need to change it gutsy, or it still can be feisty? (no problem to change it, more theoretical question)
[00:07] <gnomefreak> would make sense to keep them from overlapping
[00:07] <gnomefreak> stani: target has to be the target version of ubuntu
[00:08] <gnomefreak> for archive to accept it (or put it in right place)
[00:08] <stani> ok, thanks gnomefreak
[00:08] <gnomefreak> np
[00:08]  * gnomefreak likes the easy questions ;)
[00:09] <stani> haha, I hope to ask some more difficult questions later and hope gnomefreak is still around ;-)
[00:09] <persia> stani: Also, you'll be wanting gutsy-proposed and feisty-proposed.  They need to go through testing first.  The process will be about a month: a couple weeks of testing for the gutsy release, and then a couple weeks of testing for the feisty release.  Don't forget to push hardy first.
[00:09] <stani> yes but i have to wait for the hardy result before I can push gutsy
[00:10] <gnomefreak> if you build them all once pushed you should beable to push next one and so on
[00:10] <gnomefreak> but i could be mistaken and in that case i have been doing it wrong
[00:10] <gnomefreak> but mine is security updates
[00:11] <stani> gnomefreak: I don't have to wait to see if it is tested ok on hardy first?!
[00:12] <gnomefreak> stani: its normally a good idea but your sponser would beable to answer that best (mine dont have to since they were security updates
[00:12] <gnomefreak> iceape 1.1.5 is in gutsy and not pushed to hardy yet
[00:13] <gnomefreak> oh thanks for reminding me i have to ping someone to push that
[00:21] <persia> gnomefreak: Ah.  so you're the person with the odd version number :)
[00:23] <persia> stani: You don't have to wait to prepare patches and build, but you do have to wait to get your updates into the archive.  How you schedule your time is your choice :)
[00:29] <gnomefreak> :)
[00:32] <zul> join #ubuntu-devel
[00:32] <zul> doh..
[00:35] <stani> can I ignore this lintian warning: W: spe source: changelog-should-mention-qa?
[00:36] <persia> stani: You should only be getting that if either there isn't an Ubuntu maintainer listed, or your version numbering is odd.  Did you make the changes for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianMaintainerField ?
[00:38] <stani> persia: thanks, I'll check
[00:39] <slangasek> lifeless: hurrah
[00:39] <stani> persia: when or how does one get an ubuntu.com email?
[00:40] <persia> stani: It's a membership thing.  You likely don't want to use your own address: instead use the standard maintainer addresses listed in the Design section.
[00:42] <proppy> http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/uscan.html = debian/ubuntu watch file howto ?
[00:42] <persia> proppy: man uscan is possibly more useful
[00:43] <proppy> persia: ok :)
[00:43] <proppy> I was wondering how I can deal with sourceforge mirror, and how to test the watch file
[00:44] <proppy> seems that the man will answers all these
[00:44] <persia> proppy: There's a special hint for sourceforge (http;//sf.net/), and you can test with `uscan --report`
[00:44] <stani> persia: I have the debdiff ready. What is next? Someone needs to review it?
[00:45] <persia> stani: Right.  Attach the debdiff to the bug, and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team to request review.
[00:45] <proppy> persia: a package using a watch file in mind ?
[00:46] <persia> proppy: Anything on http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_updated.html should be a good example.  These are all known to work :)
[00:47] <proppy> persia: thanks
[00:51] <stani> persia: done! And now?
[00:51] <persia> stani: Be patient.  A sponsor will eventually comment on the bug, and may upload.
[00:51] <proppy> persia: what if the upstream use zip ?
[00:52] <proppy> persia: dans do not produce proper tarball ?
[00:52] <stani> persia: thanks
[00:52] <persia> proppy: http://sf,net/myspecialpony-(\d+).zip
[00:52] <proppy> persia: it will work if the directory in not named after version ?
[00:53] <persia> proppy: You are attempting to construct a regex that will match the available versions, and extract (via ()) the version string, to compare against the last changelog entry.
[00:54] <proppy> persia: Ok, I see, so what is inside the zip doesn't matter :)
[00:55] <persia> proppy: well, it matters, but uscan doesn't look
[00:55] <proppy> :)
[00:55] <proppy> persia: thanks :)
[00:55] <proppy> I will do watch for mumble and unittest++ in a raw
[00:55] <proppy> row
[00:55]  * Fujitsu grumbles at the archive people never remembering to autosync from contrib/non-free.
[00:57] <proppy> Newest version on remote site is 1.1.0, local version is 1.1.1
[00:57] <proppy> mumble: remote site does not even have current version
[00:57] <proppy> ahah
[00:57] <proppy> there is a not released entry in the changelog nice :)
[00:57] <StevenK> Fujitsu: It isn't not remembering, they don't.
[00:57] <persia> Fujitsu: There've been a couple pokes: I'd expect it to catch up during UDS
[00:58] <StevenK> I have pitti sitting behind me, when he autosyncs, he doesn't pull from contrib or non-free
[00:58] <persia> StevenK: Isn't there a grab/sync script against contrib/non-free?  I thought it was semi-automated
[00:58] <proppy> persia: is there a rules to add in control ?
[00:58] <proppy> persia: or this is toolchain independent ?
[00:58] <persia> proppy: For a watch file?  No.
[00:59] <proppy> ok nice
[01:00] <Fujitsu> StevenK: They normally do at some point in the cycle after people poke them...
[01:00]  * persia trusts StevenK, as he appears to be under careful oversight
[01:01] <Mez> gah, I hate packages that don't have a proper make install
[01:01] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Yeah, which is the point.
[01:06] <proppy> Newest version on remote site is 1.3, local version is 1.3.0
[01:06] <proppy> oups
[01:06] <proppy> let's dig the man to figure how to handle this kind of subtility :)
[01:19] <proppy> youhou opts="uversionmangle=s/$/.0/" power !
[01:30] <bddebian> Gah, damn dversionmangle :-(
[01:41] <tonyyarusso> How do people make UI mockups?  I'd like to be able to give pictures along with my suggestions, but I have no idea how that's done.
[01:42] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Probably with glade?
[01:42] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: I've heard of that at least...
[01:43] <ajmitch> or by getting some canvas & throwing paint at it
[01:43] <ajmitch> at least that's what I suspect when I see some apps
[01:43] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Haha.
[01:44]  * Fujitsu has had a few Visio UI designs thrown at him.
[01:44] <persia> tonyyarusso: the method doesn't really matter.  Use the tools you know.  If you want quick generated UI, glade is good.  If you use a pixel-editor, that works too.
[01:44] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: I've seen people do mockups in MS Word
[01:44] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Yeah, that too.
[01:44] <RAOF> ajmitch: How can you even *do* that?
[01:44] <bddebian> Straight HTML.. ;-)
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> persia: I kind of know GIMP, but I'm looking for something meant for this purpose, where I can say things like "Insert button", rather than "insert box shape, then round the corners, give it a raised look, and put some centered text in it"
[01:45] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: That's glade.
[01:45] <Fujitsu> Glade isn't too terrible.
[01:45] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: cool
[01:45]  * tonyyarusso checks it out
[01:45] <persia> RAOF: Consider the magic of digital cameras combined with Jackson Pollack
[01:46] <RAOF> Well, glade is *also* "once I've made this mockup, make it easy to hook code into it"
[01:46] <ajmitch> RAOF: Word has a very, very basic drawing mode
[01:47] <ajmitch> nothing better than receiving a 1MB word document via email, containing a simple line art graphic
[01:47]  * RAOF blinks.
[01:47] <Fujitsu> Only a megabyte?
[01:48] <RAOF> You live and learn.    One can create the line art in word, export a BMP, import into powerpoint, and embed in word :)
[01:48] <ajmitch> yay
[01:48] <ajmitch> such power
[01:48] <Fujitsu> I like the 200MB ones that have a lot of B+W scanned TIFF.
[01:48] <Fujitsu> And the people attempt to email them.
[01:48] <Fujitsu> And complain when you refuse to put them unmodified onto the website.
[01:49] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: there are a few different glade packages (glade, glade-2, glade-3, glade-gnome,...) - which do I want?
[01:50] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: glade-3 is probably your best bet, maybe with some of the plugins.
[01:51] <ajmitch> glade-gnome-3 depends on glade-3
[01:51] <persia> glade-gnome-3
[01:51] <ajmitch> glade-3 is a rewrite of 2.x
[01:51] <Fujitsu> glade-gnome-3 is the plugin with GNOME widgets, isn't it?
[01:51] <ajmitch> most likely
[01:51] <tonyyarusso> cool
[01:51] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: there are plugins too?
[01:51] <persia> Fujitsu: Yep.
[01:52] <persia> aptitude show anjuta
[01:52] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Glade 3 is supposedly modular, so you can have plugins providing more widgets.
[01:52] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: where would I find those to install
[01:53] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Well, glade-gnome-3 is one... /me searches.
[01:53] <ajmitch> there's pretty much just glade-gnome-3
[01:53] <tonyyarusso> ah
[01:53] <Fujitsu> That seems to be about it, yeah.
[01:53] <ajmitch> you'll manage :)
[01:54] <persia> Actually there is also python-wxglade.  Please don't use that.
[01:54] <tonyyarusso> persia: how come?
[01:54] <Fujitsu> Heheh.
[01:54] <persia> tonyyarusso: GNOME looks better without WX :)
[01:55] <RAOF> Really?  wxglade?  Why???
[01:55] <StevenK> s/GNOME/Ubuntu/
[01:55] <RAOF> s/Ubuntu/*/
[01:55]  * StevenK grins and high fives RAOF
[01:55] <persia> RAOF: Someone liked glade, and WX?  Annoying itch for them, annoying scratch for others.
[01:55] <RAOF> But if they're using glade, why not just use GTK?
[01:55] <RAOF> Eh, people are wierd.
[01:56] <ajmitch> at one point, I did quite a bit with wxpython
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Glade looks a little better than when I last used it... must have been more than 3 years ago.
[01:56] <ajmitch> I've hated myself ever since
[01:56] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Why?
[01:56] <ajmitch> because it needed to work well on windows, and gtk+ really wasn't that stable on win32 back then
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Ah.
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Wx, working well and stable? I doubt it.
[01:57] <ajmitch> better than gtk+ at the time
[01:57] <ajmitch> it still sucked
[01:57] <nenolod> my experience with WxWidgets has generally been unpleasant
[01:58] <persia> nenolod: If you want true displeasure, you must experience wxWindows
[01:59] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: okay, so I have a little text box put together in glade-3.  What do I do from here if my desired end result is a PNG I could post on my blog, say?
[01:59] <ajmitch> tonyyarusso: take a screenshot?
[01:59] <nenolod> oh i'm sure it's a fun experience
[01:59] <RAOF> I'd just take a screencapture of the glade window
[01:59] <nenolod> but i think i'll pass
[01:59] <tonyyarusso> There isn't some sort of "export"?
[01:59] <ajmitch> no
[01:59] <tonyyarusso> That seems silly
[02:00] <ajmitch> it's not meant for visual mockups, but an actual tool
[02:00] <tonyyarusso> hmm
[02:00] <Fujitsu> tonyyarusso: Its primary purpose is generating code.
[02:00] <RAOF> You could probably ask for a plugin :)
[02:00] <ajmitch> Fujitsu: not anymore
[02:00] <tonyyarusso> Fujitsu: I don't even see where that part is :S
[02:00] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Oh, generating the XML, then.
[02:00] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: true - could be handy
[02:01] <ajmitch> generating the XML, so that you don't have to fill your .py files full of gtk+ layout
[02:01] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: As I said, I haven't used it in... quite a while.
[02:01] <persia> it's not just python.  Glade supports C, Ada, Eiffel, lots of things...
[02:01] <ajmitch> but python+glade=love
[02:01] <Fujitsu> Python's GTK+ interface is remarkably nice.
[02:02] <RAOF> Yes, it's lovely
[02:02] <RAOF> I've just been playing around with it to write an xscreensaver-hack theme editor
[02:03] <RAOF> It's remarkably easy to generate a UI.
[02:04] <nenolod> pygtk is very nice
[02:04] <nenolod> using it feels as natural as using the C binding
[02:05] <Fujitsu> I wouldn't call the C binding natural-feeling.
[02:06] <nenolod> i would, but that's because i'm nuts
[02:08] <RAOF> Actually, the gtk lib itself looks nicely sane (although I've only ever used the pygtk).
[02:12] <LaserJock> boy, did I ever just have a computer scare
[02:12] <Fujitsu> LaserJock: What happened?
[02:12] <LaserJock> came back to my laptop and all the letters in firefox were little boxes
[02:13] <LaserJock> and my hard drive was thrashing about
[02:13] <LaserJock> I couldn't hardly do anything
[02:13] <LaserJock> finally got into a console
[02:13] <LaserJock> did a top and no real CPU usage but there were a bazillion artsd processes
[02:14] <LaserJock> so I did a killall artsd
[02:14] <LaserJock> and looked at top agian
[02:14] <LaserJock> and there were a ton more
[02:15] <LaserJock> and when I first trying to use my laptop the sensors applet said it couldn't get any ACPI info from my proc
[02:15] <LaserJock> little scary to me
[02:27] <proppy> zzz
[02:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: don't worry, not logn after upgrading to the final release of gutsy, I found I couldn't login at all, or I had the desktop & panel stopping
[02:27] <ajmitch> it was esd for me, rather than artsd :)
[02:34] <Fujitsu> ajmitch: Hasn't esd been gone for a while?
[02:36] <persia> Fujitsu: esound is still in hardy, just not (theoretically) enabled by default.
[02:37] <Fujitsu> Yeah, that's what I meant by gone.
[02:38] <ajmitch> it certainly wasn't removed on my laptop though
[02:38] <ajmitch> & it's still in main
[02:42] <persia> Fujitsu: The issue is that the uprade path isn't completely working yet.  From what I've heard, Lennert is expecting the final touches in the next couple months, so we should be good for hardy.
[02:43] <bddebian> So I got lordsawar uploaded to Debian.  It should autosync to Hardy right or do I need to poke someone?
[02:43] <persia> bddebian: It'll autosync (we haven't reached DIF yet).  Are you chasing BoS as well?
[02:44] <Fujitsu> !info lordsawar hardy
[02:44] <ubotu> Package lordsawar does not exist in hardy
[02:54] <LaserJock> darn, I keep forgetting that my laptop hardrive is hda not sda
[02:59] <bddebian> persia: You mean boswars?
[03:02] <persia> bddebian: I suppose I do.  Is strategus now completely useless, or are there other scenarios that are worthwhile?
[03:03] <Fujitsu> persia: stratagus is dead upstream, and I thought removed.
[03:03] <Fujitsu> (upstream all moved to boswars)
[03:03] <persia> bddebian: There's also the bos package, which is probably best replaced by boswars.
[03:03] <persia> Fujitsu: We don't remove things just because upstream stops caring.  They have to also be completely useless, and hard to maintain.
[03:04] <Fujitsu> True.
[03:04]  * persia notes that freecraft (strategus predecessor) was shipped through edgy
[03:08] <bddebian> persia: Yes, as far as I understand it boswars replaces bos and strategus but I may be mistaken.  I've been trying to get clarification on it
[03:08] <bddebian> boswars looks really nice
[03:11] <persia> bddebian: I don't see any rdepends for stratagus, but I don't know if the default scenario is worth playing.  Have you tried?  It may be that a general move to boswars would be better.
[03:12] <persia> I'm sure that boswars replaces bos
[03:12] <bddebian> No I haven't tried the stratagus default
[03:16] <persia> hmmm...  I wonder about the other scenarios on http://www.stratagus.org/games.shtml  Most seem to be based on stratagus 2.1 or dead though...
[03:21] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Hey there. Did you manage to find some people to tag along with tonight?
[03:21] <superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, yeah i grabbed food and a beer with my roomate
[03:21] <bddebian> Gah, how do I make 107 = 1.0.7 in uversionmangle?  s/(\d+)/$1.$2.$3/ or some such?
[03:22] <superm1_> i'll grab one with you folks tomorrow or the day after :)
[03:22] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Who are you rooming with?
[03:22] <crimsun_> TheMuso_Boston: he was sitting behind our table (I stole a chair from them)
[03:22] <superm1_> TheMuso_Boston, jjesse
[03:22] <TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: oh
[03:22] <TheMuso_Boston> superm1_: Oh I was just wondering.
[03:22] <persia> bddebian: The same string as for nexuiz should do it, no?
[03:22] <TheMuso_Boston> ah ok
[03:23] <bddebian> persia: That just uses the first digit then period then anything after that doesn't it?
[03:23] <bddebian> I.E., I don't want 1.07, I want 1.0.7
[03:24] <persia> bddebian: For nexuiz you were dealing with nexuiz-23.zip vs. nexuiz-223.zip.  Is this different?
[03:24] <bddebian> A little yeah
[03:24] <persia> (remember 2.3 < 2.23)
[03:24] <bddebian> In this case if I got 223, I would want 2.2.3
[03:25] <persia> bddebian: Right.  Isn't that the same?
[03:25] <bddebian> For nexuix 2.23 was OK
[03:25] <bddebian> No
[03:25] <persia> bddebian: No, because 2.23 > 2.3
[03:25] <bddebian> Well for my purposes it would have been OK.  I'll try it
[03:26] <bddebian> Oh frick, they are using 1.07 in Debian
[03:27] <persia> bddebian: In that case, you want the same string as nexuiz, without the final 'g'
[03:28] <bddebian> persia: I hate you. ;-)
[03:28]  * persia hasn't done anything - really!
[03:28] <bddebian> :-)
[03:33] <nxvl> hi all
[03:33] <bddebian> Hello nxvl
[04:02]  * jdong kicks launchpad
[04:03] <Fujitsu> jdong: What's it (not) doing now?
[04:03] <jdong> Fujitsu: not loading in a reasonably timely fashion
[04:03] <jdong> i.e. taking over 20 seconds to render a bug report
[04:05] <Fujitsu> jdong: Heh, that's normal for Australia... are you using edge?
[04:05] <jdong> yeah, I'm on edge
[04:05] <Fujitsu> That seems fairly slow lately, maybe overloaded. Often times out.
[04:09] <bddebian> Gnight folks, thanks again persia
[04:09] <persia> good night bddebian
[04:10] <jdong> seems to be responding okay currently...
[04:12] <Ditiris> Is this the right place to ask a general quetsion if I am considering developing something on Linux?
[04:12] <imbrandon> Ditiris, good place to start, if it ends up not being we'll point you somewhere else
[04:15] <Ditiris> imbrandon, Thanks.  I want to be able to accept data from a real-time system (FPGA) either via PCI-Express transfers or UDP/TCP (probably TCP).  The PCI-Express will be for a desktop system, UDP/TCP for a laptop.  I want to buffer up this data in a ramdisk using DMA transfers, process it in real-time if possible, or subsample if not, and record it at the same time or shortly thereafter.  Any idea what I'm talking about?
[04:16] <Ditiris> The problem is, I'm really a systems engineer and I have no idea where to start on the PC/programming side.
[04:16] <imbrandon> personaly, no , no idea
[04:17] <Ditiris> So, basically I'm going to get a burst of data at say 400 MB/s for a few seconds and I want to capture that data in RAM, if possible look at it/process it, then record it all.
[04:17] <Ditiris> Record to the hard drive, I mean.
[04:18]  * persia wonders why fopen() doesn't work
[04:18] <imbrandon> yea i see what you mean but i have no idea how to go about that and ummm unless you have a framework in mind i have no idea where to send you either
[04:19]  * ajmitch wonders who'll volunteer to merge proftpd
[04:19] <imbrandon> ajmitch, you dont wanna do it ?
[04:19] <ajmitch> impatient people want 1.3.1 already
[04:19] <ajmitch> imbrandon: no, why would I?
[04:19] <Ditiris> persia, directed at me?
[04:19] <jdong> Ditiris: as persia suggested, you could start by trying to use standard userland API's and a tmpfs (effectively RAM disk) storage mountpoint...
[04:19] <imbrandon> hehe no reason, just since you brought it up
[04:20] <jdong> Ditiris: but as a realtime solution with the burst rates you specified, it might not be deterministic enough
[04:20] <persia> Ditiris: only loosely - see jdong's expansion
[04:20] <jdong> I don't know what mechanism you would need to use in that case, but I can bet it'll be in kernelspace
[04:20] <ajmitch> imbrandon: that would require me to care enough anymore
[04:20] <Ditiris> Right.  I basically need a stripped-down kernel with real-time extensions... I think.
[04:20] <jdong> it's really out of the scope of our expertise -- we are distribution developers for desktops/servers, not embedded Linux / realtime-kernel specialists...
[04:21] <imbrandon> anyone use mutt on a regular basis ?
[04:21] <jdong> Ditiris: you'll probably have better luck hitting a kernel mailing list of some sort
[04:21]  * ajmitch uses mutt
[04:21] <jdong> imbrandon: I've been using it for a few weeks, just switched over from evolution :)
[04:21] <jdong> probably useless newb as far as questions are concerned ;-)
[04:21] <Ditiris> jdong, Thanks, I will try that.  In the mean time, can you recommend any books/programming guides/frameworks I can start to read up on so I can get a skeleton in place?
[04:22] <imbrandon> same here i'm trying to convert from webmail to mutt, but i got the accounts all working on getting and recieving, but umm i got a dumb shortcut queston
[04:22] <jdong> Ditiris: I'd recommend you grab one of the books on the 2.6 kernel...
[04:22] <imbrandon> how to i access other folders ( i'm connceting to imap , gmail )
[04:22] <jdong> Ditiris: Robert Love writes a good one, under the Novell name.
[04:22] <Ditiris> jdong, Thanks, will do!
[04:22] <jdong> imbrandon: c tab
[04:22] <imbrandon> hrm
[04:22] <imbrandon> c dosent seem to do anything
[04:22] <imbrandon> one sec
[04:23] <jdong> c on the index page should bring up Open Mailbox prompt at th ebottom
[04:23] <imbrandon> i have these marco's
[04:23] <imbrandon> macro index c "<change-folder>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "open a different folder"
[04:23] <imbrandon> macro pager c "<change-folder>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "open a different folder"
[04:23] <imbrandon> macro index C "<copy-message>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "copy a message to a mailbox"
[04:23] <imbrandon> macro index M "<save-message>?<toggle-mailboxes>" "move a message to a mailbox"
[04:23] <jdong> Ditiris: other than that, I have no idea where to steer you... hopefully you can get better bearings from a kernel developer list of sorts
[04:24] <jdong> imbrandon: those sound good (though I have no idea why those macros are necessary; default functionality is similar...)
[04:24]  * jdong points imbrandon at ajmitch then runs off :D
[04:25] <imbrandon> ok one last question, know how to have the default sort so new mail os on top ?
[04:25] <imbrandon> s/os/is
[04:26] <imbrandon> gmail + imap is love though, i must say
[04:26] <jdong> good question, I'm not sure if there is a sort flag for that....
[04:26] <jdong> I haven't found the need for it; # of new messages is displayed at the bottom, and TAB on the index moves to next unseen
[04:27] <imbrandon> yea i have 16k unseen though
[04:27] <imbrandon> lol
[04:27] <jdong> O_O
[04:27] <Ditiris> jdong, The Love book looks like a good place to start judging from the ToC.  Thanks a bunch.
[04:27] <jdong> nver mind that method then!
[04:27] <imbrandon> ---Mutt: =INBOX [Msgs:12674 Old:12646 139M]---(threads/date)
[04:28] <Ditiris> Have a good evening everyone, time for pillow drool.
[04:28] <jdong> Ditiris: there's also an O'Rielly book on embedded development, but IMO it's not nearly as relevant/good as the Love book
[04:28] <imbrandon> hrm , it dosent seem to be downloading the other mailboxes / folders messages
[04:28]  * imbrandon goes in search of a mutt primer
[04:28] <ajmitch> imbrandon: then just skip to the bottom of the list of messages
[04:29] <jdong> imbrandon: you need to set mailboxes statements in .muttrc to show more...
[04:29] <imbrandon> key? pgdn take forever
[04:29] <ajmitch> end
[04:29] <jdong> imbrandon: END?
[04:29] <imbrandon> ahh lol
[04:29] <nxvl> i would like to do more merges, but i'm affraid to make one i'm not supos
[04:29] <imbrandon> see i'm a newb
[04:29]  * ajmitch larts imbrandon
[04:29] <jdong> :)
[04:29] <nxvl> supposed to do
[04:29] <ajmitch> nxvl: it's ok, most people won't bite
[04:29] <nxvl> ajmitch: most is not everyone
[04:30] <ajmitch> you always get some people in every group
[04:30] <imbrandon> nxvl, just try to stick with people youve talked to in irc, but most are cool as long as they havebnnt started with it already
[04:30]  * ajmitch doesn't bite much
[04:30] <nxvl> my first merge i do a mentored one, and someone ask me why i do "someone" merge
[04:31] <imbrandon> jdong, so i must list all new imap folers in muttrc that bites
[04:31] <jdong> nxvl: it's good practice to try to poke the person in the changelog that seems to have touched it the most / last, to see if they have any better plans
[04:31] <jdong> imbrandon: you only have to do that for mutt to monitor it for new mail
[04:31] <jdong> imbrandon: c then tab should show all mailboxes
[04:31] <nxvl> so i'm kind of afraid of picking one without knowing how the process works
[04:31] <imbrandon> yea c shows all the folders now, i took out the marcos
[04:31] <imbrandon> holdon lemme pastbin my muttrc , its small
[04:32] <ajmitch> heh
[04:32]  * ajmitch is going to walk home now, back later
[04:32] <nxvl> jdong: so, pick one, talk with the last person that touch it, and if he/she say i can do it?
[04:32] <jdong> nxvl: yeah
[04:32] <jdong> nxvl: I'd be willing to bet money 99.99% of the people you poke will be THRILLED someone else wants to do the work for them!
[04:33] <jdong> but once in a while there's someone with bigger/better plans for the package, etc
[04:33] <imbrandon> jdong, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1454/   look right ?
[04:33] <nxvl> jdong: thanks, i will start picking :D
[04:34] <imbrandon> thats my WHOLE muttrc, i know its tiny compared to some
[04:34] <jdong> imbrandon: looks good to me
[04:34] <jdong> mine's only larger because of the mailboxes I subscribe to
[04:34] <jdong> and also my spam filtering hotkeys
[04:34] <imbrandon> so umm what were you talking about to make it get the new mail for the other folders
[04:35] <imbrandon> because i have about 15 more folders on gmail
[04:35] <jdong> mailboxes ! =INBOX =INBOX.jobslist =INBOX.Spamscreen
[04:35] <jdong> statements like that
[04:35] <imbrandon> ummm
[04:35]  * imbrandon looks confused
[04:35] <jdong> you can make em on many lines using multiple statements, but you list the mailboxes you want mutt to poll for unread message counts
[04:35] <jdong> i.e. I'll get notifications like "New mail in =INBOX.jobslist"
[04:36] <jdong> = is shortcut for the set folder= argument.
[04:36] <jdong> this particular IMAP mailbox uses namespaces instead of folders, hence the weird dot notation
[04:36] <nxvl> jdong: can i make the azureus's merge?
[04:36] <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
[04:36] <imbrandon> oht oh
[04:36] <Fujitsu> nxvl: Probably inadvisable.
[04:36] <jdong> nxvl: *smile* actually I've got dibs on that... :)
[04:36] <Fujitsu> nxvl: You *really* don't want to touch that. The package bites. Hard.
[04:37] <jdong> nxvl: the merge is trivial ,but its dependencies are not at this point
[04:37] <jdong> still need to figure out where we're getting SWT 3.3 from in Hardy
[04:37] <nxvl> Fujitsu: i have touched Apache2, and patch it, not simply merge
[04:37] <nxvl> Fujitsu: THAT package bits
[04:37] <imbrandon> ok jdong you still have me totaly lost, i dont care about message count, i just want to have ALL headers downloaded for all folders
[04:38] <nxvl> jdong: i don't understand
[04:38] <jdong> imbrandon: you can't use c to change to the filder you want?
[04:38] <imbrandon> yes i can, but it shows as empty
[04:38] <jdong> nxvl: Azureus <IP_ADDRESS> (Debian sid) requires SWT 3.3, Ubuntu has SWT 3.2
[04:38] <jdong> imbrandon: hmm... I have no idea why that happens :(
[04:38] <nxvl> oh ok
[04:38] <jdong> nxvl: SWT, however, in Debian is provided by a simple swt-gtk source package. In Ubuntu, it's built as a part of the Eclipse source tree
[04:38] <nxvl> so we are supposed to wait until swt it's merged?
[04:39] <jdong> nxvl: so not even I have any idea what to do with it.... I need to poke our eclipse guy about it :)
[04:39] <jdong> nxvl: but currently Azureus is my pet project and I'll take care of it :)
[04:39] <nxvl> ok, to hard for a new contributor i think
[04:39] <nixternal> while you are poking him, tell him to fix it so it doesn't crash all of the time :)
[04:39] <jdong> nxvl: yeah, pick something more relaxing and fun :)
[04:39] <jdong> nixternal: I've fixed that already :)
[04:39] <jdong> nixternal: unless you're on AMD64.
[04:39] <nixternal> well of course
[04:39] <nixternal> err, I just lied
[04:39] <nixternal> x86 :)
[04:40] <nixternal> amd64 machines are busy building kde4 packages
[04:40] <jdong> nixternal: x86, bug 57875 is your friend; I've got fixed Hardy package uploaded and gutsy-backports in testing, awaiting gutsy-updates green light :)
[04:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
[04:40]  * nixternal hugs jdong
[04:40]  * jdong hugs nixternal back
[04:40] <nixternal> even though I am just using the one from eclipse.org right now
[04:41] <nixternal> fidgiting with the severly broken Qt plugins
[04:41] <jdong> nixternal: sounds painful :)
[04:41] <nixternal> the plugins, yes, the one from eclipse.org, works wonderfully
[04:41] <jdong> speaking of AMD64, anyone got an amd64 box set up for building and some spare time?
[04:41] <nixternal> I have the C/C++ environment and the Java environment rocking along nicely compiling code that a chimp could write :)
[04:42] <persia> jdong: For eclipse/swt, you might ping the debian side as well: half the team is also active in Ubuntu, and there is an effort to get the packages to work in both places.
[04:42] <nixternal> jdong: what do you need?
[04:42] <nixternal> Host '3LockBox', running Linux 2.6.22-14-generic - Cpu0: AMD Athlon 2200 MHz; Up: 11d+23:18; Users: 2; Load: 0.00; Free: [Mem: 10/941 Mio] [Swap: 863/863 Mio] [/: 11489/14084 Mio] [/boot: 93/122 Mio] [/home: 37476/41301 Mio] [/media/maxtor: 142410/150230 Mio]; Vpenis: 93.5 cm;
[04:42] <persia> jdong: What do you need built?
[04:42] <nixternal> will that work?
[04:42] <jdong> I just want to poke across bug 152362
[04:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152362 in icedtea-java7 "icedtea-java7-plugin always crashes firefox" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152362
[04:42] <jdong> basically, Azureus will segfault running in amd64 Gutsy/Hardy because of that bug
[04:42] <jdong> and apparently the fix is just a no-change rebuild in a pbuilder
[04:43] <jdong> if that's the case, I'd like this SRU'ed ASAP :(
[04:43] <nixternal> for one, icedtea-java7-plugin shouldn't be used like the sun-java one truthfully, but nobody wanted to listen
[04:43] <nixternal> I will go ahead and rebuild it if that helps
[04:43] <jdong> nixternal: this bug is not just a problem with the plugin... it is a problem with the entire JVM
[04:43] <slangasek> jdong: can't SRU it without figuring out why it breaks on the machine where it's being built
[04:43] <slangasek> insight welcome
[04:43] <nixternal> I use the jvm all day long
[04:43] <jdong> slangasek: oh, it's not just an ABI-changed-since-last-build problem?
[04:44] <slangasek> no
[04:44] <jdong> nixternal: can you grab the Hardy or bug 57875 azureus deb (1ubuntu1 or 1ubuntu2) and see if it crashes on your box?
[04:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 57875 in azureus "Azureus hangs or crashes showing splash screen at start" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57875
[04:44] <jdong> slangasek: ok, then I misunderstood the bug's cause
[04:45] <slangasek> "ABI-changed-since-last-build" normally would cause uninstallability anyway, assuming the ABI was something maintained with reasonable care
[04:45] <persia> jdong: That's a little tricky.  pbuilder is rather different than the buildds (in many ways that are secret or arcane).
[04:45] <jdong> slangasek: has a rebuild on a buildd been tried? or are you fairly certain it'll lead to the same bug?
[04:46] <slangasek> I believe the package has built twice on the buildd with the same problem
[04:46] <nixternal> jdong: so, you are trying to tell me it is time to dist-upgrade to Hardy? :)
[04:46] <Fujitsu> Has somebody tried it in sbuild, to at least be slightly more like the buildds?
[04:46] <jdong> nixternal: lol, no, the debs are binary-independent, you can use them on Gutsy
[04:46] <nixternal> ya I know...but my desktop is already trying to run Hardy :)
[04:47] <nixternal> ok, am I testing on x86 or amd64 for this one?
[04:47] <jdong> persia: with regard to SWT, I've always assumed it's doko's pet... Our SWT 3.2 arises from the eclipse sources, while in Debian there's a separate swt-gtk source package...
[04:47]  * RAOF has a amd64 gutsy schroot lying around.  What are we doing?
[04:48] <jdong> persia: I've been unsure how to proceed to swt 3.3... syncing it down from debian defintiely works without any breakage (the package names are all different) but I don't know if doko has any eclipse related plans for it
[04:48] <jdong> persia: I'd prefer to get the SWT 3.3 stuff into Hardy soon-ish, as Azureus <IP_ADDRESS> is a legacy branch that's about 3 months old (an eternity in Azureus time)
[04:49] <persia> jdong: Hmm..  I think there is a plan to merge: If you're blocking on doko, you might try asking man-di
[04:49] <jdong> persia: ok, I'll poke him next time he comes on
[04:49] <persia> RAOF: recompiling iced-tea to replicate bug #152362
[04:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152362 in icedtea-java7 "icedtea-java7-plugin always crashes firefox" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152362
[04:50] <nxvl> on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/+bug/137993
[04:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Confirmed]
[04:50] <jdong> RAOF: long story short, rebuild in pbuilder = work, rebuild on buildd = crashy.
[04:50] <nxvl> what should i do? remove the dependecy, didn't i?
[04:50] <jdong> RAOF: azureus (hardy .deb) will segfault near loadup when icedtea is faulty. Really fast to test :)
[04:51] <RAOF> Right.  It's not easy for me to test the packages right now, but I certainly can build them in sbuilder
[04:52] <RAOF> Given the source is 70Mb, the "right now" might not be a problem :)
[04:52] <jdong> :)
[04:52] <nxvl> how do you says "the two of them"?
[04:52] <nxvl> both?
[04:52] <RAOF> Both of them
[04:53] <nxvl> RAOF: thnx
[04:53] <jdong> whose leg do you hump to make a build go faster :(
[04:54] <RAOF> Generally the "please give me another 4gb of ram" leg, I think
[04:54] <jdong> RAOF: queueing on the buildd's for 3 days for a 9-minute build is a bit irritating :)
[04:54] <RAOF> Oh, _that_
[04:55] <jdong> particularly a build that has pertinence to a high-priority 1.5 year old bug :)
[04:55] <persia> jdong: What priority did you use in the changelog?
[04:55] <RAOF> Ah, of *course* icedtea requires icedtea to build.
[04:55] <jdong> persia: default... though IIRC I've been told it doesn't matter
[04:55] <jdong> RAOF: you need the pre-chicken mutant organism?
[04:55] <jdong> :D
[04:56] <RAOF> jdong: Or they could have written the jvm in a non-java language.  That also works.
[04:56] <persia> I thought it mattered, but that we were supposed to use "low" unless there was an extra-special reason.  Anyway, until sync is mostly up-to-date, buildd queues are exceedingly long.
[04:56] <jdong> persia: I was told that soyuz ignores them...
[04:57] <jdong> RAOF: lol
[04:57] <RAOF> There's no particularly compelling reason to make it difficult to bootstrap your virtual machine :P
[04:58] <jdong> RAOF: I'm sure writing the JVM in Java makes sense  from their standpoint
[04:58] <jdong> RAOF: after all, Python<PHONE_NUMBER>00 is supposed to implement itself too
[04:59]  * RAOF thought that was PyPy
[05:00] <imbrandon> you think thats crazy, try getting gcc on a new arch
[05:00] <imbrandon> lol
[05:00] <jdong> man-di: just the man we were talking about :)
[05:00] <RAOF> imbrandon: There they've got an excuse, at least.
[05:00] <jdong> RAOF: same thing, it might get released a millenium later or something :)
[05:00] <nxvl> the jerarchy is depends -> reccomend -> suggest didn't it?
[05:00] <RAOF> !info pypy hardy
[05:00] <ubotu> Package pypy does not exist in hardy
[05:00] <jdong> man-di: I was wondering what our plans of getting swt-gtk >=3.3 are on Hardy...
[05:01] <persia> nxvl: Yes.  Depends when otherwise it breaks.  Recommends when most people should have both.  Suggests when it might be helpful.
[05:02] <jdong> no, Ka narrow is not necessary on the XTR-690 platform
[05:02] <jdong> err....
[05:02] <nxvl> persia: i'm working on: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayerplug-in/+bug/137993
[05:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137993 in mplayerplug-in "mozilla-mplayer unnecessarily depends on gecko browsers" [Low,Confirmed]
[05:03] <nxvl> persia: so i think it must be downgrade to recommend and add xulrunner to recommended to
[05:03] <nxvl> persia: didn't it?
[05:05] <persia> nxvl: Check in #ubuntu-mozillateam (this might not be the best time of day).  I think I remember hearing something about handling the xulrunner cases, and you'll want to align with that plan.
[05:06] <nxvl> persia: ok, thanks for the help
[05:06] <RAOF> Why don't we have pypy in gutsy or hardy?
[05:09] <RAOF> Oh, because if FTBFS.  Right
[05:09] <persia> RAOF: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pypy says we do.
[05:09] <persia> RAOF: It actually FTBFS for 5 different reasons :)  See the Debian bugs page.
[05:10] <RAOF> !!!
[05:11] <persia> Actually, 431197 and 442060 might be dupes: perhaps only 4 different ways.
[05:11]  * tonyyarusso sighs
[05:11] <tonyyarusso> I _still_ have broken consoles since installing Gutsy
[05:15] <RAOF> At least icedtea doesn't require substantially more than 1Gb of ram to build.
[05:18] <imbrandon> Sox are champs, bet everyone in Boston is happy tonight
[05:25] <ajmitch> imbrandon: sox? who are they? :)
[05:25] <imbrandon> boston baseball team, world series just ended and they won ( Red Sox )
[05:26] <ajmitch> ah, the 'world' series ;)
[05:26] <imbrandon> heh
[05:26] <imbrandon> well there are a few token canidian teams
[05:27] <imbrandon> err this mutt is pissing me off
[05:27] <tonyyarusso> Somebody help we work around https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/129910 ?
[05:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129910 in linux-source-2.6.22 "tty[1-6] are active but display nothing in Gutsy" [Undecided,New]
[05:39] <persia> tonyyarusso: Do you have /etc/event.d/tty*  You might want to peruse /usr/share/doc/upstart/*
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> persia: I do have those files, yes.
[05:40] <persia> tonyyarusso: start tty2 ought to do it then, no?
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> persia: What I'd really like to know is what changed from Feisty to Gutsy and why, because I was able to use vga-0x318 in all previous releases with no problems.
[05:40] <tonyyarusso> persia: No no - the tty is starting, but it's invisible.
[05:41] <tonyyarusso> persia: I can actually log in and do an 'echo -e "\a"' successfully, but don't see what I'm typing.
[05:41] <imbrandon> well the official workarround as you ask is to remove vga= from the parms
[05:42] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: Yes, but that's an idiotic and useless answer (pardon my frustration), as it yields a completely unusable console.  80 columns is simply not enough for any actual work.
[05:42] <pwnguin> what?
[05:42] <tonyyarusso> I want to be told how to FIX the problem, not how to ignore it.
[05:43] <imbrandon> right but you ask for a work arround
[05:43] <imbrandon> not a fix :)
[05:43] <imbrandon> and i get by on 80 col's every day, including right now
[05:43] <imbrandon> but thats neither here nor there
[05:43] <tonyyarusso> It worked in Hoary, Breezy, Dapper, Edgy, and Feisty, and now someone broke it.  I'd like to know why, and the kernel team is just ignoring everyone who asks, or giving them that answer and refusing to discuss it further.
[05:43] <persia> tonyyarusso: I suspect you'll need to somehow detect whether the kernel is using a framebuffer or text interface for the console, and then load the appropriate modules, at least from what I can tell from the bug report.
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> persia: I don't know how to do those things though.  I've tried some of the things suggested in comments, and ended up with a system that wouldn't even boot.
[05:45] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, i doubt there are ignoring it, there is alot going on with UDS this week and next with all hands and prior working on the release, it will be fixed asap i'm sure, the best thing to do now is contribute meaning full info to the bug and or work on a fix and in the meantime remove vga=
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: I guess.
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> I'm disappointed with the QA on Gutsy so far.
[05:46] <imbrandon> ummm we're all part of the Q&A , including yourself :)
[05:46] <imbrandon> s/&//
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, but I don't have the skills to fix things - I just find them.
[05:46] <persia> tonyyarusso: The comments in the bug are references to specific hardware configurations.  Rather than using them verbatim, you'd want to find out which modules your specific hardware is using, and load those.  Another alternative is to spawn two X sessions, one with a black background and a full-screen xterm (white on black) as the only running app.
[05:47] <tonyyarusso> persia: what would that do?
[05:47] <persia> tonyyarusso: Fake a console :)
[05:48] <RAOF> At a nice high res, with nice hinted fonts :)
[05:48] <_nand__> hi! Sorry I just got disconnected again... Did my question reached the channel?
[05:48] <tonyyarusso> heh
[05:49] <RAOF> _nand__: Not according to my lastlog
[05:50] <_nand__> RAOF: ok thanks. Let me try again!
[05:50] <_nand__> I have a packaging question concerning "private" shared libs : a app I'm packaging has some shared libs, but they will only be used by this application. Persia recommended me to put this in a private folder
[05:50] <_nand__> but if I'm not wrong, it should be somewhere reachable by ldconfig
[05:50] <_nand__>  so at the end, it may be the same if I put the libs in /usr/lib or somewhere else private, but in a path scanned by ldconfig
[05:51] <RAOF> It shouldn't be in ldconfig's path.
[05:51] <persia> _nand__: The aolserver4 package is an object lesson in how not to do things, but it does include ldconfig hinting to do just that.
[05:52] <_nand__> The shared lib must be accesible to another package created by the same source package though.
[05:52] <RAOF> Oh, I suppose the other option would be to have a per-application ldconfig hint.
[05:52] <_nand__> persia: ok thanks i'll look at it
[05:53] <persia> _nand__: Just remember, it's not an ideal package.  It can help with the hint, but don't try to learn too much from it (except as a counterexample)
[05:54] <_nand__> persia: ok ;)
[05:56] <man-di> jdong: first we need to fix some more eclipse issues
[05:56] <man-di> jdong: in Debian we have the ant eclipse issue fixed
[05:56] <man-di> jdong: and I have the junit4 issue fixed locally
[05:56] <man-di> but I have some more pending fixes
[05:57] <man-di> then Ubuntu need to merge eclipse
[05:57] <man-di> and then we can eclipse to 3.3
[05:58] <imbrandon> and gpl'd netbeans 6 :P heh
[05:59] <man-di> imbrandon: I work with SUN people on packaging NetBeans for Debian
[05:59] <imbrandon> cool
[05:59] <man-di> they want to do it themself, dont know why
[05:59] <man-di> its ridiculous to teach them packaging
[05:59] <imbrandon> hey as long as they can keep it up why not hehe
[05:59] <man-di> imbrandon: they dont
[06:00] <man-di> for the older packages I always need to ping them when bug reports arrive
[06:00] <imbrandon> ahh someone will just do it before them then if they have to learn
[06:00] <pwnguin> im sure they want to have people know this stuff in house for opensolaris
[06:00]  * persia remembers the netbeans debian/copyright.  Quite a read :)
[06:01] <imbrandon> pwnguin, well gnusolaris is just volenters like me ( i package a few things there ) and opensolaris is just the kernel not a distro
[06:01] <imbrandon> persia, they just dual licensed it under gpl
[06:01] <pwnguin> well, i was thinking of indiana, but i guess netbeans predates that
[06:02] <imbrandon> indiana isnt a distro either, its to make gnusolaris more mainstream
[06:02] <persia> imbrandon: Take a look at the current package.  It wasn't all CDDL, and it wasn't all Sun-origin.  The Netbeans code might be GPL, but the package is interesting...
[06:02] <pwnguin> then i guess ian failed to make it clear what indiana was =/
[06:02] <imbrandon> hehe yes, the solaris camp is very confusing with names
[06:03] <imbrandon> nevada is the in house opensolaris distro, gnusolris is ubunut like ( even uses our artwork )
[06:03] <man-di> imbrandon: do you still needed a closed source solaris to install opensolaris?
[06:03] <imbrandon> man-di, nope
[06:03] <pwnguin> i have an open solaris dvd on my shelf
[06:03] <man-di> wow, they fixed that
[06:03] <pwnguin> it appeared to be open source solaris
[06:04] <pwnguin> in fact, it appeared to be eight open source solaris;s
[06:04] <imbrandon> pwnguin, probably nevada
[06:04] <pwnguin> imbrandon: nevada, nevada 64 bit, nexenta, belenix schillix
[06:04] <imbrandon> ahhh willl "OpenSolaris" is like "Linux" its just the kernel , there are many many distros, the most linux like of the bunch is gnusolaris
[06:04] <imbrandon> nexenta == gnusolaris
[06:05] <imbrandon> nevada == OpenSource Solaris, not OpenSolaris
[06:05] <pwnguin> well, solaris just dosnt meet my needs
[06:05] <pwnguin> wireless sound and video
[06:05] <pwnguin> if you're a data center, hats off
[06:05]  * tonyyarusso wonders what wireless sound is
[06:05] <pwnguin> im sure you'll love zfs
[06:06]  * pwnguin wonders what a comma is
[06:06] <pwnguin> tonyyarusso: bluetooth audio?
[06:06] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: that works
[06:06] <imbrandon> i like to play with gnussolaris just because i can use all my ubuntu experince with it, its just a ubuntu derivitive
[06:06] <imbrandon> but thats all
[06:07] <pwnguin> i just think its wierd that sun went to the lengths it did to support the creation of multiple distributions
[06:07] <tonyyarusso> Are there any Ubuntu derivatives using Herd yet?
[06:07] <imbrandon> not afaik
[06:07] <tonyyarusso> hurd, rather
[06:08] <ajmitch> I hope not
[06:08] <imbrandon> pwnguin, sure why not, all they really needed help with was the kernel ;)
[06:08] <pwnguin> what?
[06:08] <imbrandon> you get as many people as possible using the solaris kernel and you get lots of fixes
[06:09] <imbrandon> who cares if the "distros" live or die in their eyes
[06:09] <pwnguin> a) ive heard plenty of people say suns userspace sucks b) they already have a referene implementation -- they might as well have just accepted fixes from the public for that...
[06:09] <jack> whats the command for the advanced partitioner, the default one fails to do what i tell it
[06:09] <imbrandon> pwnguin, sure but most pure sun boxes still have gnu userspace on them even before this
[06:10] <imbrandon> jack, cfdisk ?
[06:10] <pwnguin> dd ;)
[06:10] <jack> apt-get install lvm2
[06:11] <persia> imbrandon: Isn't there also a school of Solaris users using part of the BSD userspace?
[06:11] <imbrandon> persia, yea, bsd and solaris have a long history
[06:12] <pwnguin> then again, the various ubuntu flavors seem a bit like open solaris's approach
[06:13] <imbrandon> i like nextena's approach though ( indiana ) , take a snapshot of ubuntu ( much as we do with debian ) and slap a sun kernel on it
[06:13] <pwnguin> you say that like it's easy and workable
[06:13] <imbrandon> makes a very interesting install, special since you can run sun binarys too
[06:13] <pwnguin> does opensolaris have a linux binary compatibility layer?
[06:14] <imbrandon> not afaik, it needs to be recompiled
[06:15]  * pwnguin is scared to think of the device specific named programs, the linux only syscalls
[06:15] <imbrandon> heh
[06:15] <imbrandon> pwnguin, grab a nextena vmware image, mess with it 5 minutes, its kinda novel
[06:15] <pwnguin> i have a dvd
[06:16] <pwnguin> with nexenta
[06:16] <pwnguin> and no vmware
[06:16] <tonyyarusso> me too
[06:16] <imbrandon> not that i would ever switch, still too buggy for day to day use imho
[06:16] <imbrandon> but its kinda cool idea
[06:16] <imbrandon> hrm , lemme find something
[06:17] <pwnguin> sure; it'd be interesting to attempt to at least have packages depend on kernel versions or POSIX
[06:17] <imbrandon> http://www.imbrandon.com/misc/solaris.png
[06:17] <imbrandon> check that, its when i had the VM running a while back
[06:19] <imbrandon> woop, turn the torrent off, might load faster now
[06:19] <imbrandon> lol
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> Nexenta uses KDE?
[06:19] <imbrandon> turned*
[06:19] <pwnguin> what?
[06:19] <pwnguin> tonyyarusso: how did you infer this?
[06:19] <imbrandon> tonyyarusso, no the kde desktop is mine, the nextena is in the vmware
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> oh, doh
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: nvm
[06:20] <pwnguin> nvm indeed :P
[06:20] <imbrandon> heh
[06:21] <pwnguin> hmm when did irclogs.ubuntu.com get established?
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> pretty recently I gather
[06:22] <persia> pwnguin: About a month ago
[06:22] <imbrandon> pwnguin, there are alot of new *.ubuntu.com domains in the last month
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: what else/
[06:22] <tonyyarusso> ?
[06:23] <imbrandon> screencasts, search ( not live yet ), ummm i few others i dont rember right off
[06:23] <imbrandon> was a pita to keep adding them to ubuntuwire so i just added *.ubuntu.com :P heh
[06:23]  * RAOF accidentally kills an hour of work, and decides it's time for some hacking.
[06:24] <_nand__> hmm... the  only thing I found about loading a private shared lib is a reference to rpath...
[06:25] <RAOF> That will also work, but may be considered evil.
[06:26] <pwnguin> fg
[06:26] <pwnguin> oops
[06:26] <_nand__> RAOF: ah! What do you recommend then?
[06:26] <RAOF> No, it's already forgrounded.
[06:26] <RAOF> pwnguin: :P
[06:26] <persia> _nand__: In the client app, you can also do something with LD_LIBRARY_PATH: I think a lot of the mozilla apps do that now.
[06:27] <RAOF> _nand__: What persia said.  Miro has a tiny wrapper that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH then calls the real binary, for example.
[06:27] <_nand__> persia: that would mean creating a wrapper for each prog
[06:27] <_nand__> hmm... is this approach ok?
[06:28] <persia> _nand__: Right.  How many clients do you have?  I thought that you were only expecting the library to be used by clients in the same package.  If you have clients in other packages, I'd recommend splitting out the libraries into their own packages, with proper sonames, etc.
[06:29] <_nand__> persia: I have two binary packages from one source package : one containing some shared libs and a daemon using these libs, and the other being two GUI clients using one of the shared libs
[06:30] <_nand__> these libs being only for the program, they will not be used by others projects
[06:31] <_nand__> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=420, if it may help
[06:31] <persia> _nand__: Right.  So you add three wrapper scripts (or release a library package).  In general, it's best not to combine daemons and libraries, in part because of the delayed ldconfig call, and in part because people may want to run clients and daemons on different hosts.
[06:31] <_nand__> persia: Yes, we discussed about it with upstream, but he prefers bundling the libs and daemon together, like the racoon package
[06:32] <_nand__> persia: ok I'll use wrapper then
[06:32] <_nand__> thanks for the infos
[06:34] <pwnguin> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thinkfinger/ does the fact that this package has a page mean there's a source package in hardy?
[06:34] <pwnguin> hmm
[06:35] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: yeah
[06:35] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: or will be soon
[06:35] <imbrandon> should
[06:36] <pwnguin> I'd like to compare it to my ppa and suggest a few patches, but im not sure where to grab the source =/
[06:37] <imbrandon> if it wasent there before it will just be the version thats in sid now
[06:38] <persia> pwnguin: http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/t/thinkfinger/thinkfinger_0.3-2.dsc
[06:38] <pwnguin> i know how to get the debian package
[06:38] <pwnguin> thats what i based mine on
[06:39] <pwnguin> i just want to make sure it's in hardy and building before i start proposing patches
[06:39] <imbrandon> sure then i would say upload it ( and pass any fixes to debian too )
[06:39] <pwnguin> the debian maintainer is rather... pedantic
[06:40] <pwnguin> ive been keeping in touch
[06:40]  * persia is confused.  It doesn't appear to be new, unapproved, approved, or done.
[06:40] <pwnguin> did it get blacklisted or something?
[06:40] <Hobbsee> persia: since when can you see unapproved?
[06:41] <persia> Hobbsee: I can only see half-hour snapshots, but wouldn't expect to have the window be that tight.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> oh, right, you're not looking on lp
[06:41]  * Hobbsee wonders if that cronjob is even on
[06:41] <persia> Hobbsee: It appears to be
[06:42] <pwnguin> imbrandon: tried fluxbuntu?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> dont know about that one, tbh
[06:42] <imbrandon> not the 7.10 release
[06:43] <pwnguin> ahmuck was moaning a bit so i tried it out (ive got plenty of cdrs with not much to do with em)
[06:43] <pwnguin> turns out it doesn't even boot on my desktop
[06:44] <imbrandon> heh
[06:44] <pwnguin> i dont get why it isnt a universe package
[06:44] <pwnguin> fluxbuntu-desktop
[06:44] <imbrandon> bug joejaxx , he is _teh_man_ of fluxbuntu, and iirc because he finished it tooo late
[06:45] <imbrandon> netx version of fluxbuntu and ubuntustudio are being built in the DC from what i've seen
[06:45] <imbrandon> so it shoudent be a problem for hardy
[06:45] <pwnguin> thats the impression i get, that fluxbuntu sorta put the cart before the horse in putting up a website before really hounding up devs
[06:46] <imbrandon> its a small project pretty much run by one man
[06:46] <imbrandon> its had a few other releases
[06:47] <pwnguin> if you're one (sane) guy with a lot of ambition, to me the logical first step is to find help
[06:47] <imbrandon> if i was that worried about installing and configuring it i would just install nUbuntu
[06:48] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: i recently questioned one guy about why he did the opposite
[06:48] <imbrandon> easier said that done arround here, most are pretty streched thin, and new blod takes time to teach before they are usefull and detracts you from the goal
[06:48] <Hobbsee> said stuff to the effect about "how will yours be different from other distros?  why would we want to participate?"
[06:52] <coNP[uni]> Good morning MOTUs!
[06:52] <pwnguin> my guess is that in these kinds of cases, they want to do everything and understand it all, and wind up hoarding far more work than they can actually do =(
[06:52] <imbrandon> nah joejaxx will happily accept help
[06:53] <imbrandon> i was arround when he started fluxbuntu ( i had the same spec at the UDS )
[06:53] <imbrandon> only called fubuntu
[06:53] <imbrandon> LOL
[06:53] <pwnguin> heh
[06:53] <pwnguin> well, at least the better name won out
[06:54]  * persia doesn't understand the proliferation of derivatives: is it that hard to distribute a meta-package including the nifty bits?
[06:55] <imbrandon> persia thats mostly what derivitives are, minus the cd build
[06:55] <pwnguin> persia: ever tried installing just kubuntu with only a ubuntu CD
[06:56] <persia> pwnguin: No, but I've never install kubuntu.  I have installed Ubuntu from a floppy disk.
[06:57] <persia> imbrandon: Ah.  Right.  CDs.  Now it all makes sense.
[06:57] <pwnguin> right. you hand out a CD, and it installs -desktop for you
[06:58] <pwnguin> alternatively one could choose a desktop during install time, but i think there's the live cd pressure to contend with as well
[07:01] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: I've thought about a DE choice for the DVD installer before
[07:04] <pwnguin> did gutsy have an official dvd iso?
[07:04] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:06] <imbrandon> pwnguin, yes there are always dvd buildds
[07:06] <pwnguin> i failed to notice this i think
[07:07] <imbrandon> they are intentionaly semi hidden because they are no better than the cd iso, you owuld need to install from the dvd and add an additional 200MB of apps from the dvd 17X before it made it worth downloading the dvd
[07:08] <imbrandon> but on the flip side if it was made more public everone would be like ,,, ooooh dvd == better, lets get that
[07:08] <imbrandon> anyhow the dvd's are always on cdimage.ubuntu.com
[07:09]  * persia wonders if making the DVDs .torrent only would help
[07:11] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: it is nice if you're on dialup but have a friend on cable who can burn you the entire main repo.
[07:11] <pwnguin> imbrandon is that friend
[07:12] <imbrandon> now this is sexy,  almost as good as my XP theme for KDE
[07:12] <imbrandon> http://images.howtoforge.com/images/mac4lin/Mac4Lin%20Documentation_html_m2ad3b0cf.jpg
[07:13] <imbrandon> thats gnome BTW not OSX
[07:13] <tonyyarusso> imbrandon: okay, that's pretty cool....
[07:16] <pwnguin> you wanna see awesome themes?
[07:16] <imbrandon> i made my own XP kde theme, most couldent tell the diffrence from the real thing
[07:16] <imbrandon> was kinda slick
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> I tried that once too
[07:16] <imbrandon> i should have released it
[07:16] <tonyyarusso> didn't save it though
[07:16] <imbrandon> i got EVERYTHING working perfect
[07:17] <pwnguin>  http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~jld5445/Screenshot-10-27-2007.PNG
[07:17] <tonyyarusso> Help > About in Firefox said "About Internet Explorer" in mine
[07:17] <imbrandon> i had actualy internet explorer heh
[07:17] <pwnguin> firefox says about firefox in actual XP :P
[07:17] <imbrandon> and nero
[07:18] <imbrandon> bah lemme show ya some theme love i got going now
[07:18] <imbrandon> one sec
[07:18] <pwnguin> lemme tell you, its a lot easier to theme kde / gnome than windows
[07:18] <imbrandon> i dunno ifg i even have a screenshot app installed
[07:19] <pwnguin> (in case you havent looked or noticed, my screenshot is actually winXP there)
[07:19] <tonyyarusso> wait, what?
[07:19] <tonyyarusso> how'd you do that?
[07:20] <imbrandon> windowblinds ?
[07:20] <pwnguin> nope
[07:20] <pwnguin> step one, replace XP's uxtheme.dll with an "unlocked" version
[07:20] <pwnguin> step two, drop in the theme
[07:21] <pwnguin> http://fioressj.deviantart.com/art/Human-for-Windows-37743373
[07:22] <imbrandon> nice
[07:23] <imbrandon> one sec
[07:29] <imbrandon> hers my current desktop ( fluxbox ) NSFW http://picasaweb.google.com/holtsclawb/MISCScreenShots/photo#5126657146624955986
[07:29] <imbrandon> here's*
[07:30] <persia> Is that from Nell?
[07:30] <imbrandon> Nell?
[07:30] <persia> Apparently not :)
[07:31] <persia> (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110638/)
[07:31] <imbrandon> there is a Zoom on the top right for those not familiar with picasa web interface
[07:32] <imbrandon> persia, ahh i dont think so , i got it off devianart a long time ago
[07:32] <imbrandon> cant be sure though as i havent seen the movie, thought it was kinda like a debian logo myself :P
[07:40] <persia> Anyone want an easy SRU?  There's a patch for bug #49508, fixed in hardy.  Someone just reported bug #158253, noting that sympa doesn't work at all without the patch.
[07:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 49508 in sympa "init script does not create requirred /var/run/sympa directory" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49508
[07:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158253 in sympa "Sympa won't start : /var/run/sympa missing in tmpfs (dup-of: 49508)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158253
[09:08] <persia> gnomefreak: I learned from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[09:09] <gnomefreak> persia: ty ill look at it
[09:10] <persia> gnomefreak: Did you remember to quilt push, quilt add, and quilt pop?  It feels a lot like using a VCS.
[09:10] <gnomefreak> i didnt quilt add
[09:10] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm
[09:10] <persia> That's it.  The patch isn't properly registered.  You might be able to do the same thing by hand, but I'd trust quilt add.
[09:11] <persia> Oh.  Right.  And quilt refresh :)
[09:27] <pwnguin> hmm
[09:27] <pwnguin> does anyone else's clock report being an hour behind?
[09:31] <_ruben> gotta love DST ;)
[09:40] <gnomefreak> pwnguin: try asking in #ubuntu but im betting your bios clock is an hour behind
[09:41] <pwnguin> isnt thiis something i'd have noticed a year or more ago though?
[09:42] <gnomefreak> not really could have happened on last bios run
[09:42] <persia> Could be that it is a buggy BIOS and attempts to adjust for DST as it was defined at the time of manufacture...
[09:42] <pwnguin> suck
[09:43] <ion_> Just use ntp
[09:43] <pwnguin> i do
[09:44] <pwnguin> which is why i think its strange to blame the bios
[09:44] <gnomefreak> pwnguin: bios sets OS clock not the other way around
[09:45] <persia> Well, the OS can set the BIOS clock, but this never happens automatically.
[09:45] <gnomefreak> persia: right
[09:46] <gnomefreak> pwnguin: this just happened to the 2 windwos pcs in this house i think it has alot to do with DTS changing so much the last year or 2
[09:46] <gnomefreak> remember it used to be mid oct
[09:46] <gnomefreak> now its nov 4
[09:46] <ion_> persia: It does.
[09:46] <persia> ion_: Automatically?
[09:47] <gnomefreak> ion_: shouldnt
[09:47] <ion_> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 20 2007-10-03 09:54 /etc/rc0.d/K25hwclock.sh -> ../init.d/hwclock.sh
[09:47] <pwnguin> it should. the OS can know more about what time it is than the BIOS
[09:48] <gnomefreak> should in a perfect world but shouldnt as it i dont remember it ever doing it without input
[09:48] <pwnguin> i vaguely recall reading that the OS would load the RTC on startup
[09:48] <pwnguin> and save it on shutdown
[09:49] <persia> pwnguin: No, as ion_ points out, load on startup and save on shutdown is current behaviour.
[09:49] <pwnguin> No what?
[09:49] <pwnguin> thats what i just said
[09:49] <persia> Err..  For those used to the alternate negative answer convention, that could as well have been written "Yes, ..."
[09:49] <gnomefreak> lol
[09:50] <gnomefreak> its already almost 6
[09:50] <azeem> slangasek: did you upload opensync already, and if so, which version and where to?
[09:50] <pwnguin> at least i have excuse -- my clock is lying to me =(
[09:52] <azeem> slangasek: fwiw, opensync switched to cmake in svn
[09:54] <lidb> Hi, How can I recover my REVU account?
[09:56] <s1024kb> Hello everyone. Good evening (17:56pm here in China).
[09:58] <huats> morning everyone
[09:59] <ion_> Time of day everyone.
[10:00] <lidb>  Hi, How can I recover my REVU account?
[10:01] <persia> lidb: Try to log in.  Enter the wrong password (I suggest "password").  Click the "recover" link that appears to the right of the new login entry.  Decrypt.
[10:02] <lidb> persia,  I even can't find my account, and I am already a member the revu group of launchpad, what should I do now?
[10:03] <persia> lidb: How long have you been registered as a contributor?
[10:03] <lidb> one year also
[10:03] <lidb> persia, about one year
[10:04] <persia> lidb: Ah.  There was a security issue, and things were refreshed.  Log in using the email address you used on your most recent changelog.
[10:04] <lidb> persia, still does not work, I have tried my email and my account in launchpad
[10:05] <persia> lidb: What's your launchpad name?
[10:05] <lidb> lidaobing
[10:06] <lidb> persia, lidaobing
[10:06] <persia> lidb: No need to repeat yourself.  Sometimes it takes a while to collect information for a response.
[10:06] <Fujitsu> lidb: Have you uploaded anything to REVU since ... a couple of months back?
[10:07] <Fujitsu> If not, you won't have an account.
[10:07] <lidb> No, I haven't upload things in recent months
[10:07] <s1024kb> Hello norsetto, my teacher.
[10:07] <norsetto> s1024kb: Hi Selene, how is it?
[10:07] <persia> Fujitsu: I thought there was an account recovery system: my account didn't go away.
[10:07] <Fujitsu> persia: You're a MOTU.
[10:08] <lidb> Fujitsu,  now I already in REVU group in launchpad, what should I do next?
[10:08] <persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I thought the same rules were applied for U-U-C.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> lidb: Upload a package to REVU.
[10:08] <persia> lidb: Just upload something.
[10:08] <Fujitsu> persia: No, as not all are active, and probably other reasons.
[10:08] <lidb> thanks all, I'll try it.
[10:08] <persia> Fujitsu: Makes sense.  Just different than I'd thought.  Thanks for the correction.
[10:09] <s1024kb> Thank you for answering me... I have read the policy manual, the new maintainer's guide... and am downloading the make documents that you recomended.
[10:09] <huats> norsetto: here you are my favorite pizza eater :-)
[10:10] <norsetto> huats: hear who is talking, the onion eater, bleah
[10:11] <huats> :-)
[10:11] <huats> norsetto: yeah... onion rocks !!! especially on top of pizza
[10:11] <s1024kb> norsetto: could you please tell me how to download all the tools? I saw many many packages on the web page but don't know how to do.   I even have make it when i was doing a part-time job in Pizza Hut, at that time i was in college. :)
[10:13] <norsetto> huats: I was with two spanish colleagues, which, for some reasons yet unbeknown to me, decided to eat pizza, in toulouse
[10:14] <huats> :-)
[10:14] <huats> what funny idea...
[10:14] <huats> when I am in Roma, I dont' even think of eating french food...
[10:15] <norsetto> huats: me neither :-)
[10:15] <huats> ... it is also true that I can't think of eating something different than mozza di buffala
[10:15] <huats> :-)
[10:15] <norsetto> s1024kb: so, how is it with you? Making some progress I understand
[10:16] <norsetto> huats: seems like you are back in good shape eh?
[10:16] <huats> norsetto: let's say that I feel better... that is why I am at work
[10:16] <norsetto> huats: bad idea, bad idea .....
[10:17] <huats> I know
[10:17] <huats> but I am not sure my boss agrees with us
[10:17] <s1024kb> norsetto: yes... i guess that i will learn all the things soon, only need some more time...
[10:17] <norsetto> huats: fire him
[10:17] <huats> norsetto: I am reallly thinking of that
[10:18] <norsetto> s1024kb: take it easy, as I said one step at the time, and it will all come together
[10:18] <huats> norsetto: btw can you tell me why you put the conduit's bug as a wishlist ?
[10:18] <norsetto> huats: which one is that?
[10:18] <huats> (you know the HIG compliant stuff)
[10:18] <s1024kb> norsetto: thank you. May i ask you the same question again? I want to download all the tools but don't know how to do...
[10:18] <norsetto> huats: right, becuase its a wish .....
[10:19] <huats> bug 154472
[10:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 154472 in conduit "Conduit's menu item is not HIG-compliant" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154472
[10:19] <huats> it is a wish right
[10:19] <huats> but it is also something not correct...
[10:19] <huats> and since there is a patch...
[10:19] <norsetto> huats: yes, thats why its not invalid, or won't fix
[10:20] <huats> otherwise it'll be won't fix ?
[10:20] <huats> norsetto: because it is a too simple pb ?
[10:21] <norsetto> huats: I don't think is a good idea to implement this change in ubuntu, its not something that its necessary, its a nice to have, and will obl;ige us to have a delta with debian everytime we merge
[10:21] <lidb> Fujitsu, persia, it works, thanks.
[10:21] <huats> norsetto: ok
[10:21] <huats> norsetto: I understand your point
[10:21] <persia> lidb: Good to hear.
[10:21] <norsetto> huats: so, you did the right thing, found the fix, and forwarded it to debian and upstream
[10:21] <huats> norsetto: ok ok
[10:21] <Fujitsu> lidb: Great.
[10:22] <norsetto> huats: if they don't act, we might do it ourselves, vbut lets give them some time, ok?
[10:22] <huats> norsetto: of course
[10:22] <huats> norsetto: I was just curious... remember I am french
[10:22] <huats> :-)
[10:22] <norsetto> s1024kb: to download the tools just use your preferred package manager
[10:23] <s1024kb> norsetto: may i use apt-get in my terminal?
[10:23] <norsetto> s1024kb: if you are on ubuntu, use synaptics, or apt-get, or aptitude
[10:24] <norsetto> s1024kb: yes, of course you can, just remember that you need super user rights, so prefix it with sudo
[10:24] <s1024kb> norsetto: i know. i saw a lot of packages on the web page, but don't know which one to download.
[10:25] <norsetto> s1024kb: ok, which web page? In the packaging guide?
[10:26] <s1024kb> norsetto: for example, the link you sent to me: http://dad.dunnewind.net/
[10:27] <norsetto> s1024kb: ok, if you look there you will see its talking about a script, called grab-merge.sh?
[10:27] <norsetto> s1024kb: you see, on the second row from the top?
[10:28] <norsetto> s1024kb: if you click there you can download it to your disk and use it
[10:29] <s1024kb> norsetto: Ah, yes, so i run this script and the tools will be downloaded and installed in my Ubuntu?
[10:29] <norsetto> s1024kb: no, that script IS already the tool (one of the many we use)
[10:30] <s1024kb> norsetto: ... how and when to use the script?
[10:30]  * persia finds merges easier without grab-merge.sh
[10:30] <norsetto> s1024kb: that script is used when you want to do merges
[10:31] <norsetto> s1024kb: do you know what a merge is?
[10:32] <s1024kb> norsetto: kind of understand, kind of not...
[10:32] <gnomefreak> whatever you do use it in its own folder dont run it in ~/
[10:32] <persia> gnomefreak: :)
[10:33]  * gnomefreak learned my lesson
[10:33] <Fujitsu> It does prompt nowadays, doesn't it?
[10:33] <gnomefreak> Fujitsu: not sure after i did that i listened to the warnings on the sites
[10:33] <s1024kb> norsetto: in restricted and multiverse there are also a script with the same name. I guess that they are not the same, each one for different usage?
[10:34] <norsetto> s1024kb: I never checked, but it should be the same one
[10:35] <s1024kb> norsetto: they're used for merging all kinds of packages?
[10:35] <s1024kb> norsetto: i will read them later carefully and see what the script is doing, haha.
[10:36] <norsetto> s1024kb: yes, you just use it with the name of the package, like "./grab-merge.sh yappy" and it will download and install all necessary packages
[10:36] <norsetto> s1024kb: remember that you need to set the excutable bit, with chmod (chmod +x grab-merge.sh)
[10:37]  * gnomefreak needs to do a few merges to freshen up :(
[10:37] <s1024kb> norsetto: yes, i know, i had just learned that...haha. And is there any other tools i must download?
[10:37] <norsetto> s1024kb: I guess you already installed the build-essential package?
[10:38] <s1024kb> norsetto: no. where and how i can get them?
[10:38] <norsetto> s1024kb: since you know apt-get, with it, like this "sudo apt-get install build-essential"
[10:38] <gnomefreak> apt-get install build-essential fakeroot
[10:39] <StevenHarperUK> Hi im looking
[10:39]  * gnomefreak always grabs fakeroot ;)
[10:39] <norsetto> s1024kb: you also need devscripts
[10:39] <StevenHarperUK> Hi I am looking for MOTU's to review my Package on REVU : I currently have 0 advocations : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=444
[10:39] <gnomefreak> s1024kb: you may have to run sudo apt-get build-dep packagename
[10:40] <s1024kb> norsetto: ok. so how to get the devscripts?
[10:40] <gnomefreak> apt-get
[10:40] <norsetto> s1024kb: well, you should know by now ... try to guess
[10:40]  * geser builds inside a pbuilder so his working environment doesn't get polluted by -dev packages
[10:40] <gnomefreak> i use chroot most of time
[10:40] <gnomefreak> i havent set up hardy chroot so i build on my hardy install
[10:41] <s1024kb> norsetto: ... maybe i will find the answer in the documents... ? Haha, i must read them carefully again this evening... yesterday i was in a rush.
[10:42] <norsetto> s1024kb: what command did you use to install build-essential? Why not using the same for devscripts?
[10:42] <s1024kb> norsetto: thank you. apt-get? haha.:)
[10:43] <gnomefreak> s1024kb: everything you need is in the repos so apt-get will get everything
[10:43] <norsetto> s1024kb: I think that before doing some packaging, you should really get to know the OS better
[10:43] <s1024kb> norsetto: i am new to Ubuntu, but i guess that i will be smart enough to understand all these things... being a Windows programmer it's really not an easy thing, but i love it.
[10:44] <gnomefreak> oh hell i know the OS and merges still giv eme issues ;)
[10:44] <norsetto> s1024kb: yes, but I'm afraid you want to do too much too soon
[10:45] <s1024kb> norsetto: that's the property of all programmers i guess...;)
[10:45] <norsetto> s1024kb: which makes it much more difficult, as I said, one step at a time, get confortable with the OS first, especially with the CLI (Command Line Interface)
[10:45] <gnomefreak> mv gnomefreak /chair/ubuntu /usr/bed/sleep
[10:45] <persia> gno
[10:45] <norsetto> s1024kb: and with the file system
[10:45] <s1024kb> norsetto: just can not wait because i understand that life is too short. but i try to tell myself to be patient.
[10:46] <persia> gnomefreak: You're taking your chair to bed?
[10:46] <gnomefreak> nope better not be ;)
[10:46] <norsetto> s1024kb: you should really first read a good book on the basics of linux (or unix)
[10:46] <StevenHarperUK> gnomefreak: shouln't that be  mv gnomefreak /chair/ubuntu /home/gnomefreak/bed/sleep
[10:46] <gnomefreak> good book official ubuntu book :)
[10:46] <gnomefreak> StevenHarperUK: point
[10:46] <s1024kb> norsetto: i had took the courses when i was in University, but not so deep ones.
[10:46] <norsetto> s1024kb: <gnomefreak> good book official ubuntu book :)
[10:47] <persia> s1024kb: Alternately, play with the system for a few months, and get familiar. with the quirks.  There's lots of docs in /usr/share/doc/, although you'll find yourself recursing frequently
[10:47] <s1024kb> norsetto: haha, got 2 of that book, English version and Chinese version.:)
[10:47] <StevenHarperUK> Books are good, but you can't beat using the OS and just following and reading Policy docs to understand where and why everything is where it is
[10:48] <s1024kb> persia: thank you, i will do.:)
[10:48] <geser> gnomefreak: mv: target '/usr/bed/sleep' is not a directory
[10:49] <s1024kb> norsetto, persia, these days i feel like paradise with Ubuntu... i had never experienced it. Very happy.
[10:49] <norsetto> gnomefreak: when you start talking like that its a good sign that a break MUST be taken
[10:49] <persia> geser: Can't a bed hold multiple objects?  Seems like to models a directory :)
[10:49] <norsetto> gnomefreak: and I'm not talking about a break:
[10:50] <norsetto> s1024kb: yes, persia has that effect on many people :-)
[10:50] <geser> persia: true, I hope gnomefreak prefers someone else next to him in the bed instead of his chair :)
[10:50] <persia> geser: No, it's clearly the chair.
[10:51] <s1024kb> norsetto: i guess that i don't have "a few months" as what persia said. I can only give myself "a few weeks". ...
[10:51] <persia> s1024kb: Why?  Is there an external pressure to know the system quickly?
[10:51] <norsetto> s1024kb: it takes what it takes, we will see
[10:52] <s1024kb> persia: no, because i had promised...
[10:52] <persia> s1024kb: Ah.  Towards which goal?
[10:53] <StevenHarperUK> Hi MOTU's anyone fancy reviewing my package on REVU again, I am almost certain there is nothing left to find :P - http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=444
[10:54] <s1024kb> persia: i had told all my friends that i am a MOTU... i can not let them down. What i see is, people around had changed their life because i brought Ubuntu to them, and they want to become MOTUs too. I must learn faster, to teach them...
[10:54] <geser> tough goal
[10:55] <persia> s1024kb: That's hard in a few weeks.  It was two years between when I started contributing and joined MOTU.  On the other hand, there's no reason you can't help your friends without being MOTU.
[10:56] <StevenHarperUK> I would never have the time to be a MOTU, I just want to contribute by making and packaging software, that I think ubuntu needs / or has gaps....
[10:56] <s1024kb> persia: i understand. But i want to become skillful in this way - i can know more about the system and become a specialist among them, so that they can rely on me...
[10:56] <persia> s1024kb: I'd suggest learning about debugging tools: if you can track down your friends bugs, and generate simple patches (in C, C++, python, perl, Eiffel, whatever), it's usually not hard to get the patches in.  With a little more effort, you can get your name in the changelog, and your friends will be suitably impressed.
[10:56] <Fujitsu> persia: What did Eiffel do to make it onto that list?
[10:56] <persia> Fujitsu: Provided a glade plugin :)
[10:57] <Fujitsu> Hah.
[10:57] <s1024kb> persia: we are people from a "broken inner world", i got healed by Ubuntu, and i know that my friends need it too...
[10:58] <persia> s1024kb: Understood.  The other option is to become a support specialist, rather than a developer.  Learn about how the major subsystems interact, and help them to make their systems work.
[10:58] <s1024kb> persia: now i am much stronger than the begining days i got Ubuntu from my boss's hand - i really thank him, for the great day.
[10:59] <s1024kb> persia: i am a developer and my interest is programming... yes, i also have interest in supporting - actually i had already doing this in my company.
[11:00] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, I know there is a conference on today (and the next few days), will anyone be reviewing packages on REVU today or in the next few days?
[11:00] <persia> s1024kb: Excellent.  I suspect you'll keep making progress, I just warn you that the unix way is acquired by experience, rather than well documented, and is best  learned by exploring, rather than attempting to do things immediately.
[11:01] <persia> StevenHarperUK: Not as much as recently.  There is a REVU day scheduled for the 5th, after which things should pick up again.
[11:01] <s1024kb> persia: thank you very much for your advice. I had dived into it and could not get out...:)
[11:01] <StevenHarperUK> persia: thanks, where would I find that schedule, so I can stop bugging you guys....
[11:01]  * norsetto wonders how many times StevenHarperUK will keep asking for his package to be reviewed between now and the 5th
[11:02] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: once a day : I won't bug more than that.....
[11:02] <_nand_> hehe
[11:02]  * norsetto stopped counting after 10 (he doesn't have enough fingers)
[11:02] <persia> StevenHarperUK: It's published in the minutes of the MOTU meetings.  Also, being careful to not ask for a review more than one in 24 hours (people define "day" differently, depending on timezone) may help.  Too many requests, and people may not review.
[11:02] <StevenHarperUK> norsetto: I only just got the info if the scheduled day, so You wont hear me again today
[11:02]  * norsetto discovers he has feet too! Another 10 good fingers to include .....
[11:03] <s1024kb> norsetto, persia: good bye everyone, i must go home now for dinner. Bye and thank you very much.
[11:03]  * persia passes norsetto a hint about using one's digits as bits
[11:03] <norsetto> s1024kb: bye, take it easy! (I mean it ...)
[11:04] <s1024kb> norsetto: thank you, i will.
[11:04]  * _nand_ tells norsetto to use the chinese way : ten per hard
[11:04] <_nand_> s/hard/hand/
[11:04] <norsetto> persia: hey, I'm a 20 bits microprocessor ;-)
[11:04] <StevenHarperUK> persia: Yes I am sorry about asking a lot - I have had lots of help from you guys (MOTU's) and I have learned lots and lots about packaging.
[11:05] <persia> norsetto: Assuming you never have to count abscenses, you ought to be able to reach 1048575 without too much trouble :)
[11:05] <norsetto> persia: I'm working on my southbridge right now
[11:06] <persia> norsetto: Good luck.  I've never been able to properly maintain overflows (insufficient prehensility)
[11:07] <geser> norsetto: doesn't have men also a 21st bit?
[11:08] <norsetto> geser: some even a byte ;-)
[11:08] <Fujitsu> norsetto: O_O
[11:08]  * persia warns that suggestive language may not be appropriate...
[11:08] <norsetto> !language | norsetto
[11:09] <Fujitsu> It's approaching inappropriate, but not terrible.
[11:20]  * StevenK appears.
[11:20]  * persia cheers stevenk
[11:20] <StevenK> And geez Boston is cold this morning
[11:20]  * jpatrick greets StevenK
[11:21] <geser> Hi StevenK
[11:21] <StevenK> "Temperature: 3.0C"
[11:21] <StevenK> "Feels like: -1.2C"
[11:21] <persia> StevenK: Did you misplace a decimal point?
[11:21] <StevenK> persia: I did not.
[11:22]  * persia has reduced envy for people in Boston
[11:22] <StevenK> persia: I'm used to Australian summer temperatures - where they start at 12, not 4x less than that.
[11:23] <persia> It's 24 here
[11:23] <StevenK> Send it here, I'll swap. :-)
[11:23] <Fujitsu> 15.7° here.
[11:23] <geser> it's 9°C here
[11:23] <persia> StevenK: I'd be happy to split the difference :)
[11:23] <StevenK> persia: :-)
[11:23]  * Fujitsu would prefer Boston, because of both the temperature and event.
[11:24] <persia> Fujitsu: 15.7 is too warm?
[11:24] <Fujitsu> persia: I like much cooler.
[11:25] <StevenK> Fujitsu: I daresay you could have gotten sponsorship - if the parents would actually let you go, that is.
[11:25] <persia> Fujitsu: If you come here, make sure it's between December and February :)
[11:26] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I might try for the next one.. I have exams starting in 6 days, so couldn't have gone anyway.
[11:26] <norsetto> persia: I thought you were in oz?
[11:26] <Fujitsu> Not sure why exactly I'd be sponsored.
[11:26] <persia> norsetto: No.  I'm in Tokyo.
[11:26] <norsetto> persia: ah!
[11:27] <norsetto> norsetto: there must be a logic, persia is in tokyo and fujitsu is in Australia
[11:27] <StevenK> Fujitsu: Mmmm. Fun. I have two exams, one on the 13th (and I get back into .au on the 12th), and a deferred exam on the 19th
[11:27] <warp10> lol!
[11:27] <persia> norsetto: One doesn't tend to carry local names.  Were I in Medea, I'd likely change my nick
[11:28] <StevenK> Fujitsu: You've done an awful lot for MOTU, and I daresay you would have useful contributions to make to any specs discussed.
[11:29]  * StevenK runs off to have a shower and get ready.
[11:29] <persia> Fujitsu: Definitely apply for the next one if you haven't been.  You're a mainstay of our QA efforts.
[11:30] <Fujitsu> persia: I shall try.
[11:30]  * StevenK high fives persia
[11:30] <Fujitsu> (and hopefully have more time for Ubuntu stuff in a couple of weeks once the damn exams are done)
[11:30] <Fujitsu> StevenK: I doubt I've done enough, but I will try. If I can work out how.
[11:31] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[11:31] <Fujitsu> Evening, Hobbsee.
[11:32] <Hobbsee> hiya
[11:33] <stani> hi emmet, are you here?
[11:34] <Hobbsee> persia: poke
[11:34] <persia> stani: Yes, although I don't usually carry that nick here.  It's a good idea to check people's LP pages for their IRC nicks to make sure they highlight.
[11:34]  * persia steals Hobbsee's stick, and pokes back
[11:35] <persia> stani: Have you read the SRU page?
[11:36] <stani> persia: I am reading it.
[11:39] <stani> persia: shall I follow the complete procedure on the wiki: propose & prepare? No problem.
[11:39] <stani> persia: I mean prepare & test
[11:40] <persia> stani: I thought you'd already completed those stages :)
[11:40] <stani> persia: have to lunch, I'll be back
[11:40] <persia> stani: Ideally, you'd want to find a hardy tester to make sure the problem is gone, but this early in the cycle there aren't many users.
[11:41] <persia> stani: OK.  I'll catch you after lunch.
[12:04] <slangasek> azeem: not yet uploaded, but it's at 0.33 and will be sent to experimental and people.d.o soon
[12:05] <slangasek> azeem: and you can cope with cmake yourself, I've already achieved my goal of getting motosync working :)
[12:05] <Mez> siretart, ping ?
[12:07] <Mez> or any revu admin
[12:07] <persia> Mez: What do you need done?
[12:08] <Hobbsee> Mez: enocontext.
[12:08] <Mez> persia, my revu account seems to have been dissapeared - I need it readded ;)
[12:08] <persia> Mez: When did you last log in?
[12:08] <fernando> moin all
[12:08] <Fujitsu> Mez: ~ubuntu-dev had new accounts created. Should be the primary address on LP.
[12:08] <Mez> persia, a good few months ago
[12:09] <persia> Mez: Before or after the security thing?  Also, can you not log in, or not comment?
[12:09] <Mez> Fujitsu, hmmles.. well my<EMAIL_ADDRESS>WAS a revu admin last time I logged in ?
[12:09] <Mez> persia, cannot login, says no account for me when I try and recover
[12:09] <persia> Fujitsu: I thought it was last-changelog-entry account...
[12:09] <Mez> persia, security thing ?
[12:09] <Fujitsu> persia: Oh, possibly.
[12:09] <Fujitsu> Mez: There was a security issue on many of the Canonical community servers.
[12:10] <persia> Mez: There was an incident.  REVU accounts were wiped, and some restored.  Yours would have been restored.
[12:10] <Fujitsu> tiber (which hosted REVU) is no longer.
[12:10] <Mez> persia, it wasnt ..
[12:11] <persia> Hmm..  The email address you put up before should have worked (from what I can tell from dates & changelogs)
[12:11] <Mez> persia,  ??
[12:11] <Mez>   	 login for user<EMAIL_ADDRESS>failed, please retry or recover
[12:11] <Mez> No REVU account for<EMAIL_ADDRESS>exists yet.
[12:13] <Mez> does anyone here have access to re-create my account ?
[12:13] <persia> Mez: That's awfully odd.  You could upload something, but that wouldn't give you review rights.  I'm surprised it doesn't work based on the key sync (and that definitely happened in the last few months).
[12:13] <Mez> so it has my key ?
[12:14] <persia> Mez: The accounts don't work quite like that.  You get one when you upload, or if your key gets sync'ed.  It should have your key, because you're -dev
[12:14] <Mez> and it's for review rights ;)
[12:14] <Hobbsee> go ahead and upload something, then i can change the reviewer status
[12:14] <Mez> Hobbsee, got nothing to upload
[12:14] <Mez> unless you wanna nuke it afteR?
[12:14] <Hobbsee> yeah
[12:14] <persia> Mez: Then upload dpkg :)
[12:14] <Fujitsu> persia: Key syncing doesn't imply account creation.
[12:15] <persia> Fujitsu: No?  I don't remember uploading anything, but my memory may be faulty
[12:15] <Fujitsu> persia: The keys just control what is accepted. If something is accepted with a key that hasn't been seen before (but it won't get this far without being on the keyring), an account is created.
[12:16] <persia> Fujitsu: Hrm.  That makes sense, based on how I know REVU works, but I think there is another way (and can neither remember the command nor access REVU right now)
[12:16]  * Mez uploads
[12:19] <DktrKranz> persia, I received a reply from aolserver4 maintainer stating there's no transition or such. He will gradually update aolserver4-* modules, but there's no hurry to do so right now, so I think it can be safe to merge it
[12:21] <azeem> slangasek: ok
[12:22] <persia> DktrKranz: There must be at least something.  aolserver4 split into aolserver4 (really aolserver4d) and aolserver4-code (really libaolserver4).  I haven't dug into the Debian package must (after the final release freeze is the wrong time to request an UVFe :) ), but I think that aolserver4-dev does the right thing anyway.  Still, it's probably best that we load things in the right order, as I don't imagine either of us really want to look at the
[12:22] <Hobbsee> Mez: Altering<EMAIL_ADDRESS>to level reviewer
[12:23] <Mez> Hobbsee, so no longer an admin ? :'(
[12:23] <Hobbsee> Mez: you'd presumably need to take that up with siretart?
[12:23] <Mez> I need a password though
[12:23] <Mez> ;)
[12:23] <Hobbsee> there's a p/w set - you should be able to recover it
[12:23] <persia> Mez: admin requires oddities due to the security restrictions.
[12:23] <DktrKranz> persia, your string has been cut after "really want to look at the"
[12:23] <azeem> slangasek: did you change the soname of libopensync?
[12:24]  * persia hates buffers "...really want to look at the packages again :)"
[12:24] <DktrKranz> hehe... got it
[12:24] <Mez> persia, oddities?
[12:26] <persia> Mez: As in, one needs to pass through some extra considerations.  I don't know all the details, but understand that the security issue was exacerbated by some local account, so there's new restrictions.
[12:26] <Mez> Hobbsee, can you nuke the katapult upload
[12:26] <Mez> persia, *shrugs*
[12:26] <DktrKranz> anyway, I'll check to see if there are some issues by testing a couple of packages and eventually propose it for merge
[12:27] <persia> DktrKranz: OK.  Let me know if you need any extra testing, or I can be any help.  I really don't want ldconfig.real :)
[12:27] <Hobbsee> Mez: why not test if you can?
[12:28] <DktrKranz> persia, just to save me a couple of minutes, do you remember why you pushed such change? any error during configure or similar issues?
[12:28] <Mez> Hobbsee, I don't have a nuke button thats why
[12:28] <IntuitiveNipple> Can anyone help me work out how to add a new quilt patch to kvm? I was trying to follow the MOTU/School/PatchingSources guide but it recommends creating a symlink from debian/patches to patches, but in this case there are patches in both locations already so I'm unsure how to proceed (symlink causes a patches/patches broken link)
[12:29] <DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, try with "export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches" first
[12:30] <persia> DktrKranz: The old package had the daemon and the library in the same binary package, and tried to start the daemon in the postinst.  Because of the deferred ldconfig trigger emulation, the daemon couldn't start (could not access the library).  Since aolserver4-dev depended on aolserver4, this meant that any package the build-depended on aolserver4-dev would FTBFS if the ldconfig trigger was enabled.
[12:30] <DktrKranz> ok, thanks
[12:31] <slangasek> azeem: I didn't change the soname from what upstream changed it to (?)
[12:32] <persia> DktrKranz: I think that it's likely fixed with the package split, so my change can be dropped.  It just needs testing with the merged client packages, which is why I poked you :)
[12:32] <IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: So basically ommit the symlink step?
[12:32] <azeem> slangasek: I think they changed it to 1 for the 0.3x development series, but don't plan to change it to 2 for the 0.40 stable release; however, they reserve the right to change API during the following 0.3x releases
[12:32] <DktrKranz> hehe, I will do in the next few days, thanks for the quick explanation
[12:33] <DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, yes
[12:33] <IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: Thanks... I'll give it a go :p
[12:33] <DktrKranz> IntuitiveNipple, this way quilt is instructed to look for patches in that directory
[12:33] <IntuitiveNipple> DktrKranz: Yes, the guide shows doing the export after setting up the symlink... I'll see how it goes :)
[12:34] <slangasek> azeem: which is fine, it just means we get to hit them with a stick until they do something sensible
[12:34] <slangasek> azeem: but the 0.33 can't be 0 because 0 is already used for an incompatible ABI :)
[12:34] <DktrKranz> I never created a symlink, it worked good without it :)
[12:36] <azeem> slangasek: my idea was to pretend 0.19 doesn't exist and keep 0.3x libopensync0 in experimental till 0.40 is released, then bump to 1 and upload to unstable
[12:36] <azeem> but ok, I see how this might not be popular with everybody
[12:37] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: Revu does not accept binaries.
[12:38] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: please make sure you only upload *sources*
[12:40] <viviersf> ajmitch, ping. Just need to ask you a favour
[12:40] <zul> hes probably gone to bed
[12:42] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: if you did not know, the ubuntu archive does *also* not accept binaries, and will silently reject them.
[12:42] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: please be more careful with your uploads in future.
[12:42] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Isn't it loud about rejecting them?
[12:42] <Fujitsu> I'm sure it complained at me when I did it once.
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: unsure.
[12:42] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i know some cases get silently rejected
[12:43] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: but, i havent been silly enough to upload a binary package there
[12:43] <Fujitsu> AFAIK the only silent rejection cause is when an upload is signed by an unknown key, or not signed at all.
[12:43] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[12:43] <Hobbsee> i've only tried with unknown kye
[12:43] <Hobbsee> no, unsigned.
[12:44] <Fujitsu> (unknown meaning not known at all by LP, not just not in the appropriate keyring)
[12:44] <Hobbsee> yup
[12:45] <Hobbsee> StevenharperUK has appeared to upload stuff without a changes file.
[12:49]  * Hobbsee ponders if the penalties for violating all the documentation that exists should have a harsher penalty for MOTU's than non-MOTU's.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> seeing as, y'know, if they're getting that wrong, do we even want to contemplate what else they're getting wrong?  (either by not paying attention, or just by ignorance?)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> and they can upload without restraint....
[12:54] <joejaxx> imbrandon: the reason is the default settings uses dpkg-divert :P no one like that here :P
[12:54] <joejaxx> pwnguin: it is not only me there are quite an amount of other people working on fluxbuntu
[12:55] <zul> Hobbsee: i really dont know how to use patch ;)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> zul: i was thinking more simple things.
[12:55] <joejaxx> imbrandon: hopefully we get that fixed
[12:55] <zul> using patch is simple :)
[12:58] <Hobbsee> what the frick?
[12:58] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: okay, you're not going to get larted.  unless you're signing by a differnet key
[12:58] <Hobbsee>  Pedro Fragoso (Key<EMAIL_ADDRESS>however, is.
[13:00] <persia> ember: ping
[13:00] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I like the comment on that key.
[13:00] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: indeed.
[13:03] <siretart> Mez: pong
[13:04] <persia> If stani comes back whilst I am away: stani is spe upstream SRUing spe, and seeks a hand with process.  Please provide guidance :)
[13:04] <Mez> siretart, was sorted out above, was wondering where my REVU account had gone! (lol - seeing as I *was* an admin and then when wennt to review had no account - I'm back as a reviewer now - unless you want me to stull be admin then thats fine  by me)
[13:05] <siretart> Mez: ok
[13:05] <proppy> hi
[13:08] <slangasek> azeem: well, upstream has already used .so.1 for 0.33, and 0.19 is in etch... if you want 0.40 to keep 1 as the soname, that's still ok with me as long as 0.33 is confined to experimental, but I don't see the advantage to modifying 0.33 to lie about it being equal to 0.19, instead of keeping the same and lying about it being equal to 0.40
[13:09] <slangasek> azeem: also, using 1 in experimental avoids users accidentally breaking their stable systems by importing it, as opposed to only breaking unstable systems
[13:18] <norsetto> hi proppy
[13:19] <proppy> norsetto: going to eat brb
[13:19] <norsetto> proppy: bon appetit
[13:20] <joejaxx>  /win 290
[13:20] <joejaxx> bah
[13:22] <ion_> 290? :-)
[13:22] <IntuitiveNipple> Another question about quilt patching: To add documentation about a patch is it as simple as adding the test to the start of the debian/patches/xx_name.patch file after all quilt operations are complete (after quilt pop -a) ?
[13:22] <IntuitiveNipple> s/test/text/
[13:23] <joejaxx> ion_: lol
[13:23] <broonie> quilt supports header editing - the command is 'quilt header'
[13:23] <broonie> (quilt header -e is what you want most of the time.)
[13:23] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: I tried that but it didn't appear to change anything
[13:23] <broonie> Tried what exactly?
[13:24] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: The file remained in /tmp after editing but wasn't applied to the patch after I'd done "quilt refresh" and "quilt pop -a"
[13:24] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Tried "quilt header -e" after "quilt push -a"
[13:24] <broonie> push/pop don't matter too much except that the default patch to work on is the current patch.
[13:25] <broonie> You shouldn't need to do anything except 'quilt header -e'
[13:26] <StevenHarperUK> Hi, my last review on REVU states that : Needs Python Review : How do I get one of these?
[13:26] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Yes, I'd just created a new patch and was trying to add the documentation. I was reading the Debian guide on this but it just said to add the documentation to the top of the patch file itself. I found the 'header' option in man myself and tried it but it didn't change the top patch, eith in .pc or after refresh, in debian/patches
[13:26] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: I'll try it again
[13:27] <ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: Does your package use a distutils setup.py (I think we discussed this before, but don't recall for sure).
[13:27] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: 'quilt applied' shows me the patch I want as at the top, so I should now do  'quilt header -e', yes?
[13:27] <skimat> hi ho
[13:27] <StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: No it doesn't: all the packaging bits are fixed now : and I have followed all the Python Packaging Guides
[13:27] <skimat> i d like to switch virtual desktop while hovering the 2icons and scrolling the wheel : this is a suggestion feature request
[13:29] <broonie> IntuitiveNipple: Yes.
[13:30] <ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: I may (emphasize may) have time to look at it this week.  I've sort of resigned from reviewing, but may make an exception if I have time while I'm at UDS today and tomorrow.
[13:31] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: -e should still work if the patch file doesn't current contain a header, yes? (because it isn't changing it)
[13:31] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: To clarify, currently the patch doesn't have a header
[13:32] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: Strangely, if I've added the header manually, 'quilt header' shows it as expected
[13:34] <StevenHarperUK> Scottk2: Ta I presume a Python review is just done my a MOTU then?
[13:34] <azeem> slangasek: so once libopensync1 gets into unstable, how do we make sure our beta testers don't get burnt with their experimental libopensync1?  By conflicting against the old front-end, forcing a mass-update?
[13:34] <ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: I haven't looked, but I suspect they just wanted someone familiar with Python policy to review it.
[13:34] <ScottK2> StevenHarperUK: Yes.
[13:34] <StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: Right so it's a just a MOTU review by someone who knows python then :p
[13:35] <StevenHarperUK> ScottK2: ta for the info
[13:35] <IntuitiveNipple> A last quilt question. To create the new source package diff do I need to delete quilt's .pc/ directory first to prevent it showing up in the source diff?
[13:35] <slangasek> azeem: could do that; or rename the library package to libopensync1debian1 or something and conflict with libopensync1?
[13:36] <broonie> Yes, it should work fine. What's your $EDITOR?
[13:37] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: gedit
[13:38] <azeem> slangasek: well, I wanted to avoid strange library names if possible, but I guess we can live with it
[13:39] <slangasek> azeem: or I could upload to experimental as "libopensync1pre"?
[13:39] <slangasek> if we're really sure that upstream is going to screw up 0.40
[13:39] <slangasek> (which I don't have too much doubt about, myself...)
[13:39] <azeem> well, they say distributions shouldn't package 0.3x....
[13:39] <slangasek> that's no excuse. :)
[13:40] <slangasek> and I'm not going to sit around twiddling my thumbs waiting for them to further screw around with the build system before getting syncing to my SLVR L7 going
[13:40] <azeem> slangasek: they promised 0.34 for the last weekend; maybe we can wait till that?
[13:40] <azeem> or I should check out svn and see what the status is
[13:41] <broonie> IntuitiveNipple: Try with vi or pico, just to check
[13:42] <azeem> SET_TARGET_PROPERTIES( opensync PROPERTIES VERSION 1.0.0 SOVERSION 1 )
[13:42] <IntuitiveNipple> I used gedit ok for the source-code edit when I did 'quilt edit ...'. I'm doing the entire process again since I forgot to edit the changelog before debuild so I'll try it with nano :)
[13:42] <slangasek> azeem: what's the advantage of waiting for 0.34?
[13:43] <azeem> if they screwed up the scons->cmake transition for the library versioning, we wouldn't have to clean that up as well
[13:43] <azeem> but that looks unlikely
[13:46] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, huh?
[13:46] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I didnt upload anything to revu
[13:46] <IntuitiveNipple> broonie: 'header -e' worked OK with gedit when I did between 'edit ...' and 'refresh' - previously I was doing it after I'd created and refreshed. Don't know why that'd make a difference.
[13:47] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: yes, i said later
[13:47] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, wrong person?
[13:47] <bluekuja> :)
[13:48] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: someone's uploaded with your changelog entry, and signed with their key
[13:48] <bluekuja> who??
[13:48] <bluekuja> link please
[13:48] <slangasek> azeem: ok.  well, this is work I'm doing right now anyway, because I have local access to bluetooth expertise and want to plow through getting everything working that I care about, so my preference is certainly to get this all pushed somewhere that others could benefit :)
[13:48] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Yay, inverse sponsoring.
[13:48] <slangasek> rosnopsing?
[13:49] <azeem> slangasek: are you interested in getting "Windows mobile stuff" working as well?
[13:49] <slangasek> what's that? :)
[13:49] <Hobbsee> bluekuja: it was said above.
[13:50] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, yes, do you have a link for the revu page?
[13:50] <Hobbsee> no
[13:50] <azeem> I mentioned talking to "a ubuntu guy" in #opensync, and the resident conduit-opensync-glue-all-together guy wanted to talk to this ubuntu guy about "windows mobile stuff"
[13:50] <Hobbsee> well, there might be a public one somewhere.  i dont konw.
[13:51] <azeem> slangasek: it's about making those daemons you need to talk to WindowsCE devices just work
[13:51] <bluekuja> ember, is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>your mail?
[13:53] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, anyway thanks for pinging me
[13:54] <bluekuja> Hobbsee, I know the archive doesnt accept binaries
[13:54] <bluekuja> I gonna listen what ember will say
[13:54] <bluekuja> about this
[13:54] <bluekuja> https://edge.launchpad.net/~pmf
[13:55] <bluekuja> here it is
[13:56] <amachu> bluekuja: hi
[13:56] <bluekuja> amachu, hi
[13:57] <amachu> bluekuja: had a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtdmm/+bug/156243
[13:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156243 in qtdmm "Merge qtdmm 0.8.10-1 from Debian unstable" [Wishlist,Incomplete]
[13:57] <amachu> is it fine?
[13:58] <amachu> subscribe to u-u-s mean to give the u-u-s id to 'Subscribe someone else'? am i right?
[13:58] <bluekuja> amachu, yes
[13:58] <bluekuja> that's it
[13:58] <amachu> shall i do it now?
[13:59] <bluekuja> amachu, yes, I'll take a look at it when I have some spare minutes
[14:00] <amachu> bluekuja: sure.. what next?
[14:00] <amachu> some more things to merge?
[14:00] <bluekuja> amachu, just wait me or another developer to check it
[14:01] <amachu> bluekuja: sure :-)
[14:01] <bluekuja> amachu, yes, check the channel topic
[14:01] <amachu> i will loo into them
[14:01] <amachu> thank you
[14:01] <bluekuja> np, thanks to you
[14:47] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:47] <ScottK2> Heya bddebian.
[14:48] <norsetto> hi bddebian, hi scottk
[14:48] <ScottK2> Heya norsetto.
[14:49] <norsetto> scottk2: I hear its pretty chilly in Boston today
[14:49] <ScottK2> Not for Boston.
[14:50] <bddebian> Hi ScottK2, norsetto
[14:51] <joejaxx> hello all
[14:51] <joejaxx> :)
[14:53] <bddebian> Heya joejaxx
[14:56] <proppy> re
[15:14] <warp10> norsetto: ping
[15:14] <norsetto> warp10: pong
[15:15] <warp10> norsetto: I was looking this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/153597
[15:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153597 in cryptsetup "cryptsetup doesn't understand UUID= in crypttab" [Undecided,New]
[15:15] <warp10> norsetto: the proposed debdiff just contains the patch for the source, not for changelog (and control, and so on)
[15:16] <warp10> norsetto: in a situation like this, can I use that patch to fix the bug, and then create a complete debdiff to be reviewd by u-u-s?
[15:17] <ScottK2> warp10: You can.
[15:17] <norsetto> warp10: in theory yes, but that goes to main as well, so its u-m-s
[15:18] <warp10> ScottK, norsetto: ok, great.
[15:19] <warp10> norsetto: being a main package, is it an appropriate bug for a beginner (like... say... me!) or better I stay off?
[15:19] <norsetto> warp10: the packaging bit yes, but you should talk with somebody in main to check if the patch is really worth it
[15:20] <norsetto> warp10: like pitti, who uploaded it last
[15:21] <azeem> slangasek: so, the currently active opensync developer says "I hope so" if asked whether the library name will remain unchanged until 0.40
[15:21] <warp10> norsetto: ok, I'll email him. In the meantime I will create the debdiff, just as an exercise. :)
[15:21] <azeem> slangasek: so using a debian-specific soname for now looks like a good solution to me
[15:22] <norsetto> warp10: you can also attach it to the bug report
[15:22] <warp10> norsetto: roger!
[15:22] <norsetto> warp10: and an email may not be the best solution, try to talk to him, he is usually hanging around in #ubuntu-dev
[15:22] <norsetto> warp10: even though he is presumably busy with the UDS right now
[15:23] <warp10> norsetto: whois says he is not online :(
[15:23] <azeem> slangasek: maybe call it libopensync1pre0 (or pre1?) anticipating further breakage until 0.40
[15:23] <lifeless> I'm anticipating continual breakage
[15:24] <lifeless> they don't understand abi change == soname change
[15:24] <norsetto> warp10: yeah, i think its still a bit early there, what is it now scottk, 8:30am?
[15:24] <azeem> lifeless: the person I suspect didn't undestand it (abauer) doesn't seem to be heavily involved anymore
[15:24] <azeem> dgollub appears to be more reasonable
[15:25] <norsetto> warp10: do you now how to patch a source file?
[15:26] <norsetto> warp10: s/now/know
[15:26] <slangasek> azeem: and why is the ABI going to break between now and 0.40?
[15:26] <warp10> norsetto: I was just reading "man patch". Any hint?
[15:27] <norsetto> warp10: there is a good intro here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PatchingSources
[15:28] <norsetto> warp10: to check what patch system is being used, you can use what-patch from the ubuntu-dev-tools package
[15:28] <azeem> slangasek: 0.3x is their development series, they make no guarantees
[15:28] <azeem> it /might/ break
[15:29] <warp10> norsetto: ok, great! Thanks! :-)
[15:29] <norsetto> warp10: let us know if you have problems
[15:31] <slangasek> azeem: righto
[15:57] <afflux> Hi. I just got two sync requests ready, anyone might ack them? They're bug 157136 and bug 157172
[15:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157136 in zeroinstall-injector "Please sync zeroinstall-injector 0.29-1  (universe) from Debian	unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157136
[15:59] <norsetto> afflux: have you subscribed u-u-s?
[15:59] <afflux> yep
[16:03] <norsetto> afflux: can you attach a build log?
[16:03] <afflux> think so. will be ready in a minute.
[16:03] <afflux> norsetto: ^
[16:04] <norsetto> afflux: thanks
[16:06] <warp10> norsetto: in the changelog, should I move the distro to hardy or keep gutsy?
[16:07] <norsetto> warp10: we should prepare a patch for hardy, and if it is worth it, once accepted, we can prepare another for gutsy (its a different procedure since it is an SRU, Stable Release Update).
[16:09] <afflux> norsetto: both buildlogs attached.
[16:25] <michele77> hi all. I'd like to be helped to patch this bug 151530, if it's possible
[16:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151530 in wine "user's profile shell folders should symlink to $XDG_XXX_DIR" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151530
[16:26] <norsetto> afflux: bug 157136 ak'ed to archive, thanks for your work
[16:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 157136 in zeroinstall-injector "Please sync zeroinstall-injector 0.29-1  (universe) from Debian	unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/157136
[16:33] <norsetto> bug 153597
[16:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153597 in cryptsetup "cryptsetup doesn't understand UUID= in crypttab" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153597
[17:04] <zul> ahh...blowing away a terabyte file system is strangely cathartic
[17:08] <lucas__> soren: ping
[17:08] <lucas__> soren: could you upload ubuntu-dev-tools with the submittodebian patch?
[17:23] <SWAT> just checking, is this a good howto for building packages?  http://julien.danjou.info/buildd.html
[17:59] <hellboy195> can anybody tell me the link to the (merging) site where the different version numbers of the actual packages in debian and ubuntu are shown?
[18:01] <ScottK2> hellboy195: Either merges.ubuntu.com or DaD (see /topic)
[18:02] <hellboy195> ScottK: yes I meanted DaD. THX :D
[18:07] <bmm> Just because I'm curious: when will a source package like empathy 0.14 be build and what sets of the building process? (regarding: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/0.14-1ubuntu1/+build/425647 )
[18:08] <bluekuja> hi ember
[18:08] <crimsun_> lionel: do you mind if I look at qjackctl 0.3.1a?
[18:10] <geser> bmm: when it moved its way up in the build queue
[18:11] <bmm> geser: ah, there is a build queue... good to know. How long does something like that take?
[18:11] <geser> bmm: auto-sync got turned on a few days ago and a large batch of packages got synced at the same time
[18:12] <geser> bmm: I don't know how long it takes for a package to get build right now
[18:12] <bmm> Well, good to know it will be automatically evaluated.. I'll just be patient ;-)
[18:12] <bmm> geser: thanks!
[18:25] <TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: As I said earlier, if you don't have time to do qjackctl, I can have a look at it, thats if lionel doesn't mind either one of us doing it.
[18:26] <nxvl> hi you all!
[18:35] <norsetto> nxvl: Hola
[18:36] <norsetto> nxvl: did you talk with kevin?
[18:39] <nxvl> norsetto: nop, i have just connected i read the messages a minute ago
[18:39] <nxvl> norsetto: i will do it in a moment
[18:40] <crimsun_> TheMuso_Boston: (doing it ATM)
[18:40] <norsetto> nxvl: sure
[18:47] <TheMuso_Boston> crimsun_: np then.
[18:54] <lionel> crimsun_: please go on with qjackctl :)
[18:54] <lionel> crimsun_: please go on with qjackctl
[18:56] <crimsun_> lionel: ok, thanks.
[18:56] <lionel> np
[18:56] <TheMuso_Boston> gah. Me needs to wait for a fs to resize before suspending...
[19:30] <mtp_> Per https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU, can you guys please resync the GPG keys with REVU?
[19:50] <blueyed> Changes to config.guess and config.sub should get removed from a debdiff, shouldn't they?
[19:50] <slangasek> blueyed: define "should" here please?
[19:51] <blueyed> slangasek: it seems to be autogenerated stuff (which I don't know). should=do not have to get removed, but would get rebuilded during build anyway??
[19:52] <blueyed> removing them makes the diff smaller..
[19:53] <slangasek> blueyed: whether they get rebuilt at build time depends entirely on the specifics of the package
[19:54] <blueyed> slangasek: they got changed for "debuild -S" (I'm talking about dspam)
[19:56] <sistpoty|UDS> blueyed: there shouldn't be any difference in config.sub/guess after clean
[19:56] <LaserJock> anybody know if there's a wiki page yet for the packaging doc spec?
[19:57] <sistpoty|UDS> hey LaserJock
[19:57] <sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/packaging-docs-revisited <- maybe that one
[19:58] <sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: (this session just finished in the room I'm sitting in *g*
[19:58] <LaserJock> sistpoty|UDS: yes, I was listening in
[19:58] <LaserJock> sistpoty|UDS: at least trying too, it's really hard to hear anything
[19:59] <slangasek> blueyed: oh, I've reread your question; yes, for a debdiff that you're feeding to sponsors, it's simplest to strip out the config.guess/sub changes
[19:59] <sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: oh, i c
[19:59] <LaserJock> I was trying to hear if you guys were saying "That Packaging Guide that LaserJock did is a real piece of ..." ;-)
[19:59] <blueyed> slangasek: ok, thanks.
[20:00] <sistpoty|UDS> LaserJock: we only mumbled this in the background :P
[20:00] <LaserJock> ahhhh ;-)
[20:02] <sistpoty|UDS> k, break here, so I'm off again... cya
[20:04] <pochu> keescook: I've reported bug 158414. Would you mind looking at it, and if it's ok, accepting the tasks for the stable releases?
[20:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 158414 in wesnoth "denial of service in wesnoth client and server prior 1.2.7 release" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/158414
[20:05] <astimodeus> hey folks :D
[20:05] <astimodeus> may I ask you a thing?
[20:06] <pochu> astimodeus: sure.
[20:06] <astimodeus> (well i'm asking anyway) do I need to send some bio/skills features to someone to become a perspective developer?
[20:06] <astimodeus> (well not features, infos)
[20:06] <LaserJock> astimodeus: no
[20:07] <LaserJock> just start helping out
[20:07] <astimodeus> allright ty
[20:07] <astimodeus> i'm learning the ubuntu packaging system atm
[20:07] <LaserJock> great
[20:07] <pwnguin> the only skills you need to be a prospective developer is debdiff ;)
[20:08] <astimodeus> eheh well you know i aim to become a motu too, so i'll just have to work hard and learn the most that i can
[20:08] <astimodeus> :)
[20:09] <ajmitch> pwnguin: I'd say you need a bit more than that...
[20:10] <LaserJock> ajmitch: really? ;-)
[20:10] <astimodeus> marù sux
[20:10] <pwnguin> to be a _good_ prospect, sure.
[20:10] <pochu> TheMuso_Boston: I answered to you in bug 156436 (...since you are not subscribed...)
[20:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 156436 in wesnoth "wesnoth: merge new Debian version 1.2.7-2" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/156436
[20:10] <ajmitch> LaserJock: though that's about all I have :P
[20:10] <maru>  hi can anyone help me with a problem installing avant window manager?
[20:11] <g2g591> wrong channel
[20:11] <pwnguin> hilarious uds title
[20:12] <pwnguin> "nm-ifupdown-death-match"
[20:12] <g2g591> can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=453
[20:12] <maru> http://pastebin.com/d7df08d79 this is the problem
[20:13] <slangasek> maru: sorry, but this is not a user support channel; please see #ubuntu
[20:13] <astimodeus> maru: sarai mica mara :D
[20:13] <astimodeus> (sorry for the language)
[20:13] <maru> yeah i've been asking for an hour and nobody answers
[20:14] <maru> are you italian?
[20:14] <astimodeus> maru: so' mazzingaa fessa -_-
[20:14] <pwnguin> doesnt gutsy have an awm built?
[20:14] <pwnguin> build, even
[20:15] <sharms> maru: why doesnt this work for you? http://awn.wetpaint.com/page/UbuntuFeistyHowTo
[20:16] <sharms> maru: Process goes: 1.  Read website of package  2. Following instructions 3. If there is an issue, ask on their support channel  4. If their channel thinks its ubuntu specific ask on #ubuntu
[20:16] <maru> because i wanted to install the svn
[20:16] <sharms> There is no #5 'ask in motu'
[20:17] <maru> sorry i'm new to linux
[20:17] <sharms> anywho, that link I sent works 100% in feisty and gutsy
[20:17] <sharms> if there are changes or updates to the process I will update it there
[20:19] <g2g591> can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=453
[20:35] <proppy> norsetto: here ?
[20:36] <norsetto> proppy: yes .....
[20:36] <proppy> norsetto: going to the copyright section of your comment
[20:36] <proppy> norsetto: did you noticed the fix I've uploaded on revu
[20:36] <proppy> norsetto: ?
[20:37] <proppy> norsetto: regarding general & changelog issue
[20:38] <norsetto> proppy: yes, it was good, I think you only forgot to add a note in changelog about the tarball format change
[20:39] <proppy> norsetto: I thought about it
[20:40] <proppy> norsetto: but I thought the changelog has to be Initial release if not publied ?
[20:40] <proppy> norsetto: cause I should also had a watch entry
[20:40] <proppy> norsetto: removal of the README file etc etc
[20:40] <norsetto> proppy: no, all these changes are pure packaging changes
[20:41] <proppy> norsetto: yep I know but even if the change are not publied yet (I mean on ubuntu repository)
[20:41] <norsetto> propy: a change of the tarball is not a package change, you are touching upstream work, so it should be reported in a visible way, especially for the next guy who is going to work on your package
[20:41] <proppy> norsetto: should I put them in the debian/changelog ?
[20:41] <proppy> oh ok
[20:41] <proppy> norsetto: I see
[20:42] <proppy> norsetto: so you mean ChangeLog and not debian/ChangeLog ?
[20:42] <proppy> debian/changelog
[20:42] <norsetto> proppy: no, I really mean debian/changelog
[20:42] <proppy> norsetto: hmm ok
[20:42] <norsetto> proppy: its required in copyright, and its good practice to have it in changelog too
[20:43] <proppy> norsetto: in the same entry than Initial release ?
[20:43] <norsetto> proppy: just a sec
[20:45] <norsetto> !pastebin
[20:45] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[20:45] <proppy> norsetto: I feel pretty uncomfortable that there is not changelog entry for all the stuff I'm doing
[20:45] <proppy> norsetto: but I guess, it's due to not-published-yet status
[20:45] <norsetto> proppy: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42606/
[20:46]  * norsetto 1 - proppy 0
[20:46] <norsetto> proppy: they are not changes on a functioning product, they are mainly error correction, no need to keep a changelog
[20:47] <proppy> norsetto: ok
[20:47] <norsetto> proppy: you will see all the changes in revu anyhow
[20:47] <proppy> norsetto: I still have http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/ to keep track of them anyway
[20:47]  * norsetto 1 - proppy 1 (zut)
[20:48] <proppy> Should I also add this to copyright
[20:48] <proppy> ?
[20:48] <proppy> maybe It's in your upcoming comments
[20:48] <proppy> let me see
[20:49] <norsetto> proppy: for the copyright its a long work, there are many sources in that package, and you need to coordinate with upstream unfortunately
[20:50] <cbx33> hey hey guys
[20:50] <norsetto> proppy: an example on how to do it: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/42607/
[20:50] <cbx33> i was thinking is there a way to run a command when anybody logs in and out of hte server
[20:51] <cbx33> like via ssh or on the tty or gnome
[20:51] <norsetto> !support | cbx33
[20:51] <ubotu> cbx33: the official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org
[20:52] <ajmitch> heh
[20:52] <cbx33> norsetto, yes i am well aware of where the ubuntu support channel is
[20:52] <ajmitch> hey cbx33 :)
[20:52] <cbx33> hiya ajmitch
[20:52] <cbx33> long time bud
[20:52] <cbx33> howz it going
[20:52] <ajmitch> good, what are you up to?
[20:53] <cbx33> ahh just helping out the brother in law
[20:53] <cbx33> and hacking around with WebDAV, DAV SVN and at the mo stitching in Hugin
[20:53] <g2g591> hey, can some one take a look at my packaging of tightvnc 1.3.9? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=468
[20:53] <proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/768ea1eb53e5
[20:54] <norsetto> proppy: ok
[20:54] <proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/80445c6f9240
[20:55] <norsetto> proppy: yes, i was thinking that we should actually retain his date
[20:55] <proppy> norsetto: http://hg.mumble.aminche.com/rev/b4a1110dbb20
[20:56] <cbx33> what you up to ajmitch ?
[20:56] <proppy> norsetto: are the date innacurate ?
[20:56] <ScottK2> g2g591: There's REVU hacking going on right now at UDS, so it's possible REVU may be unavailble for a moment or two.
[20:56] <g2g591> ok
[20:57] <norsetto> proppy: well, I don't know why it was changed in my comment actually, I might have done something silly when pasting
[20:57] <proppy> let me look at the original changelog
[20:57] <norsetto> proppy: you have it in your diff
[20:57] <nxvl> fbond: ping
[20:58] <ajmitch> cbx33: the usual, work & doing various other small things
[20:58] <ajmitch> not a lot of ubuntu stuff lately
[20:58] <norsetto> proppy: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:31:58 +0200
[20:58] <proppy> norsetto: not Thorvald's one
[20:58] <cbx33> ajmitch, me neither
[20:58] <norsetto> propyy: which date then!?
[20:58] <norsetto> proppy: which date then!?
[20:59] <proppy> norsetto: how you're right
[20:59] <proppy> 28 Sep 2006 16:31:58 +0200.
[20:59] <proppy> and mine should match the changelog as well
[20:59] <proppy>  +It was subsequently modified and brought in line with the Debian policy by +Johan Euphrosine (proppy) on Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:41:46 +0200
[20:59] <proppy>    -- Johan Euphrosine (proppy<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 01:48:53 +0000
[20:59] <norsetto> proppy: not necessarily
[20:59] <proppy> ok
[20:59] <norsetto> proppy: you may use the date on the changelog to keep track of the package
[21:00] <nxvl> norsetto: why you ask me if i talk to kevin, who's kevin? didn't you mean Forest?
[21:00] <norsetto> proppy: just update it when you upload, but don't upload every change ......
[21:00] <norsetto> nxvl: thats upstream
[21:00] <norsetto> nxvl: kevin dekorte
[21:00] <proppy> norsetto: yep
[21:02] <Ahmuck> hi
[21:02] <Ahmuck> i'm interested in packaging for *buntu
[21:03] <jussi01> !packagingguide | Ahmuck, please read:
[21:03] <ubotu> Ahmuck, please read:: The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/New for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources - See also !backports
[21:04] <lifeless> StevenK: mpt will be 10 minutes late
[21:04] <jussi01> Ahmuck: many people are at UDS atm, so please dont take it to heart if there is not much of a response.
[21:04] <nxvl> norsetto: oh, k
[21:04] <nxvl> norsetto: that evin
[21:05] <norsetto> jussi01: well, perhaps ahmuck wants to ask a question?
[21:06] <proppy> norsetto: http://mumble.aminche.com/copyright.out
[21:07] <norsetto> proppy: I think licenses.h is screwing up your script ;-)
[21:09] <norsetto> proppy: and how do you know if there is no copyright? because thats something to tell upstream .....
[21:09] <proppy> norsetto: I just wanted to get a list to ask the authors about
[21:09] <nxvl> norsetto: i'm writting him right now
[21:09] <proppy> norsetto: To Thorvald Natvig:
[21:09] <proppy> Norsetto and I noticed that there are additional authors quoted in some souces, should we also quote them in the copyright ?
[21:09] <proppy> norsetto: see the list below
[21:09] <proppy> norsetto: I will uniq the grep
[21:09] <Ahmuck> i'm ok with no response.  there are several packages i would like to see, and getting them packaged is like pulling teeth, so i supposed i would do them myself
[21:10] <norsetto> proppy: yes, all copyright onwers shall be listed in copyright
[21:10] <norsetto> proppy: authors too, but if upstream has an AUTHORS file we can just point to it
[21:10] <ScottK2> norsetto: Actually for minor copyright holders (such at in a Makefile) they needn't be mentioned.  For licenses though you must be exhaustive.
[21:11] <proppy> no AUTHORS file
[21:11] <proppy> norsetto:
[21:12] <norsetto> scottk2: yes, I mean not autogenerated files
[21:12] <siretart> NOTICE: we are currently hacking a bit on revu. please expect breakage ;)
[21:13]  * norsetto wonders what "hacking a bit" really hides
[21:13] <ajmitch> probably implementing revu2
[21:14] <siretart> nope
[21:14] <siretart> we are introducing stable urls for packages
[21:14] <proppy> norsetto: full list http://mumble.aminche.com/copyright.out
[21:15] <wallyweek> hi all!
[21:15] <ajmitch> siretart: oh, so that you don't need to know the upload id? :)
[21:16] <ScottK2> ajmitch: Yes.  So you can put a stable link to a REVU package in the LP needs-packaging bug
[21:16] <ajmitch> useful
[21:16] <proppy> norsetto: bug #129081 updated waiting for the upstream to comment
[21:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 129081 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] Mumble" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129081
[21:16] <siretart> ajmitch: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=murx
[21:16] <siretart> links like that
[21:18] <norsetto> proppy: personally, I'd rather make a list of all points we need upstream action and send it once
[21:18] <wallyweek> should I file a needs-packaging bug on LP for the packages I built on my own?
[21:19] <norsetto> proppy: I'm quite sure we need some for the licenses too
[21:19] <proppy> norsetto: ok so I should keep the work in progress of this list, in a file on mumble.aminche.com for example ?
[21:19] <norsetto> wallyweek: why not? add a link to revu if your package is there
[21:21] <norsetto> proppy: well, if you check the sources, you will see some additional authors which are not copyright owners
[21:21] <norsetto> proppy: check my comment on revu
[21:21] <norsetto> proppy: plus a list of files which are missing either license or copyright
[21:21] <proppy> norsetto: I'm reading it right now, but isn't an authors, the copyright owner of his code by default ?
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: how can you tell which are and which aren't ?
[21:22] <ScottK2> norsetto: If you look, you'll see that url by packagename is now on REVU and so URLs will be stable (thanks siretart), so there's probably some docs needs updating.
[21:22] <ScottK2> Also URLs won't be changing all the time.
[21:22] <ajmitch> siretart: so how about comments from non-reviewers? maybe with some css table styling to tell them apart
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: it seems that I mixed 2 different issue
[21:22] <proppy> norsetto: AUTHORS and Copyright owners
[21:23] <norsetto> proppy: yes, and the files missing both and/or the license header
[21:23] <nxvl> norsetto: y have just write him
[21:23] <proppy> norsetto: I hope you don't mean license.h by license header :)
[21:24] <nxvl> norsetto: now i need only to wait for an answer
[21:24] <proppy> norsetto: thanks for all the info :)
[21:24] <norsetto> proppy: and the licenses, and the files which have "no preferred form of modification"
[21:24] <norsetto> proppy: and ask him about /installer