[01:22] <superm1> slangasek, i didn't even see an attempt at a mythbuntu build for 11-29 in http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/lucid/ but other *buntus were built on 11-29.  any ideas what's going on?
[01:22] <superm1> i recently made some seed changes, so i'm hoping i didn't bork things badly suddenly
[04:03] <jdong> [ 2351.982360] ecryptfs_lookup: lookup_one_len() returned [-36] on lower_dentry = [\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
[04:03] <jdong> oh that doesn't look pretty.
[07:45] <Romeo_Calif> Hi
[07:46] <Romeo_Calif> Hello
[07:46] <Romeo_Calif> Room
[07:46] <Romeo_Calif> gilir:
[07:46] <RAOF> Do you have a question about Ubuntu development?
[08:09] <pitti> Good morning
[08:30] <plague> morning
[08:30] <woodbj> haha its 7.30pm where i am, so evening
[08:31] <plague> lol evening
[08:31] <plague> how goes it
[08:42] <plague> hey question from a student developer: how would you recommend starting open source development? specifically what would be good resources and projects to look at?
[09:03] <geser> pitti: Good morning. Do you have an idea what went wrong here? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/35907181/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.pion-net_2.2.2%2Bdfsg-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[09:03] <geser> objcopy:debian/libpion-net-dev/usr/bin/stGeegc0: cannot create debug link section `debian/libpion-net-dev/usr/lib/debug//usr/bin/PionHelloServer': Invalid operation
[09:23] <plague> I take it its wakie up time in america?
[10:11] <\sh> moins
[10:11] <\sh> who is responsible for the "requestsync" tool? It gives me a wrong information, regarding a version in sid and a version in ubuntu...
[10:13] <ogra> doko, did you already switch the gcc defaults to implicit-it for armel (i dont see it mentioned in the changelog)
[10:15] <geser> \sh: any dev can fix it. What problem do you have exactly?
[10:15] <doko> ogra: no
[10:16] <\sh> geser, e.g. shermann@wz-pc-010:~$ requestsync -d sid --lp ampache lucid
[10:16] <\sh> E: The versions in Debian and Ubuntu are the same already (3.5.1-2). Aborting.
[10:16] <ogra> doko, but you plan to, right ?
[10:16] <\sh> geser, ampache in sid : 3.5.2-1 and in ubuntu  3.5.1-2
[10:16] <doko> pitti: please promote the binary xz-utils package (source already in main, eglibc now b-d's on it)
[10:17] <\sh> geser, the same happens with s/sid/unstable/
[10:17] <\sh> geser, I tested this on 3 different installations of karmic ... so IMHO it's a bug in requestsync or whereever the info comes from
[10:18] <geser> \sh: with the --lp flag requestsync uses the LP debian "mirror" (through the LP API) to look up versions and https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/ampache still lists the old version
[10:18] <\sh> argl
[10:18] <geser> when you omit the --lp it will don't use any LP API (rmadison instead) and mail the sync request
[10:20] <dholbach> ttx: somebody requested a sync of libaopalliance-java - does it matter if it depends on default-jre vs default-jre-headless?
[10:20] <geser> \sh: I guess you can't sync ampache anyways as it uses "Format: 3.0 (quilt)
[10:20] <geser> "
[10:20] <ttx> dholbach: I was just looking at those. Yes it matters, and there is another patch that was not merged
[10:21] <dholbach> alrighty
[10:21] <ttx> I'll update the bug accordingly
[10:21] <dholbach> rock on!
[10:21]  * dholbach hugs ttx
[10:21] <ttx> jI just need to doublecheck that there weren't some silent fixes in debian, but I doubt it
[10:21] <\sh> geser, do you think it's fair enough to do a fakesync?
[10:22] <geser> \sh: not until LP accepts Format 3.0 packages or you change it back to Format 1.0 (don't know how much work that is)
[10:22] <\sh> geser, rm -Rvf debian/source ;) that's all...I already have this version running on my local ampache server :)
[10:24] <geser> in that case it's IMHO OK to do a fakesync
[10:24] <\sh> geser, k...
[10:39] <matteo> hi all
[10:44] <Laney> morning fellas
[10:45] <pitti> doko: done
[10:48] <pitti> geser: FTBFS> hm, the log doesn't tell why; is PionHelloServer a normal ELF file?
[10:54] <dholbach> hey Laney
[11:17] <ttx> pitti: question about subcycle tracking in WorkItemsHowto -- when a spec has alpha-2 items and some later items but you still want to correctly track alpha-2 completion, I can use the subsection trick described in the doc, but should the blueprint be targeted to alpha-2 or to final ? (or changed to final just after alpha-2 ?)
[11:18] <ttx> pitti: example: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-eucalyptus-karmic-retrospective
[11:18] <ttx> pitti: last three items are obviously post alpha-2 but all the others should be completed by alpha-2
[11:18] <pitti> ttx: if you want it to appear on the server-lucid-alpha2 burndown, target it to alpha-2, and untarget after alpha-2 was released
[11:19] <ttx> pitti: ok, makes sense. Thanks !
[11:24] <geser> pitti: debian/tmp/usr/bin/PionHelloServer: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, not stripped
[11:25] <pitti> geser: hm, that looks fine; I wonder why objcopy -R .gnu_debuglink --add-gnu-debuglink doesn't work then
[11:30] <geser> pitti: here are the last lines when run with DH_VERBOSE=1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331612/
[11:33] <geser> pitti: it succeeds when I change the call from dh_strip -k to dh_strip (but fails afterwards due to missing files)
[11:44] <maxb> Does anyone know when james_w is likely to be back?
[11:58] <seb128> maxb, he should be back today
[11:58] <geser> pitti: found the problem: the dh_strip wrapper knows about --keep-debug but not about its short name -k. Could you please apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/331631/ to dh_strip from pkg-create-dbgsym?
[11:58] <maxb> That would be nice - At the moment he's a bit of a single point of failure for UDD matters :-)
[12:03] <jml> maxb, good point. I'll make a note into seeing what we can do to fix that.
[12:07] <soren> Does anyone happen to know the HZ kernel setting used on the buildd's?
[12:58] <maxb> soren: I'd be surprised if they were not running official Ubuntu kernels
[12:59] <soren> maxb: The buildd's are full of surprises :)
[12:59] <maxb> Well, true
[12:59] <maxb> I reckon lamont is the person to give you a definitive answer
[13:00] <lamont> soren: stock hardy kernels
[13:00] <lamont> well, unless you're powerpc, in which case, s/hardy/dapper/
[13:01] <soren> lamont: -server?
[13:01] <lamont> *shrug*
[13:01]  * lamont goes looking
[13:01] <soren> lamont: How about sparc?
[13:01] <lamont> sparc has hardy
[13:01] <soren> I have a build that works on powerpc and sparc, but fails everywhere else.
[13:01] <soren> hm.
[13:01] <soren> Ok.
[13:01] <lamont> ppc has dapper because the hardy kernel didn't actually work with the hardware in question, istr
[13:02] <lamont> though testing that with a more current release of the OS is in plan
[13:02] <soren> Yeah, that sounds vaguely familiar.
[13:02] <soren> Oh, sorry, not sparc. armel.
[13:02] <lamont> armel == jaunty
[13:02] <soren> armel and powerpc work. None of the other. Upstream suggested it might be the HZ setting.
[13:07] <lamont> note also that there is absolutely no guarantee or even hint that HZ will be the same on the build machines as it is on the end-user machine...
[13:07] <soren> Of course.
[13:10] <ogra> wow, there is an area where armel works better than other arches  ?
[13:10] <ogra> exciting
[13:11] <soren> ogra: Don't worry, I'll fix up the other arches so that armel once again will be no better than anything else :)
[13:11] <ogra> pfft
[13:11] <ogra> and i thought i could show off with it
[13:20] <Ng> ogra: show off that it's marginally better at building broken packages, except much, much slower? ;)
[13:26] <jdong> dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (used by debian/handbrake-cli/usr/bin/HandBrakeCLI).
[13:26] <jdong> *scratches head*
[13:43] <rohdef> where should I ask questions about development on Ubuntu?
[13:45] <azeem_> rohdef: developing on Ubuntu or Ubuntu development?
[13:46] <rohdef> developing on Ubuntu, since the topic says that this isn't the right place to ask, hence the question ;)
[13:46] <azeem_> no idea
[13:46] <rohdef> ok, mind if I ask here anyway?
[14:52] <mpt> Does anyone know why there's a "Fonts (universe)" section in Synaptic but no "Fonts (main)" section?
[14:53] <fagan> mpt: thats weird
[14:55] <mpt> Without that, there's no way to know Gentium exists unless you know to search for "ttf-"
[14:55] <mvo> mpt: I think its inconsitent use of the section
[14:56] <mvo> mpt: the one in main seems to be misc graphical
[14:56] <mpt> or Liberation (in Karmic, anyway)
[14:56] <fagan> The fonts need some love
[14:57] <fagan> The design team need to really look into it
[14:57] <mpt> "Fonts (universe)" also doesn't contain ttf-mgopen, a really nice set
[14:58] <fagan> mpt: I was at it too
[14:58] <fagan> :)
[14:58] <mpt> My main concern right now is working out a way to show all the fonts by themselves in the Ubuntu Software Center
[14:59] <mpt> including ttf-mgopen and ttf-sil-gentium, and excluding fontforge-extras :-)
[14:59] <mvo> I think we should consider this wrong section use a bug
[14:59] <fagan> mpt: that would be hard since they are packaged together for the most part
[14:59] <mpt> fagan, oh sure, by "by themselves" I don't mean individually, I mean separate from non-font packages
[15:00] <fagan> oh now I understand
[15:00] <fagan> mpt: while we are the the software center, any thoughts on packaging up plugins for applications?
[15:01] <fagan> I noticed that totem, rhythmbox etc all have plugin systems that not many people know how to use
[15:01] <fagan> so maybe we can make it easier in the software center
[15:02] <fagan> plus we can do it locally without root privileges for most of them
[15:02]  * fagan needs to go to college be back in 2 hours :)
[15:20] <Keybuk> cjwatson_: FYI http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-installer/
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: fyi, I just verified the remaining bug for that eucalyptus SRU; you can push to -updates at your convenience
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: we're working the next SRU now
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti: so we'll have a new one in -proposed as soon as you clear that one out
[15:30] <pitti> kirkland: nice, thanks
[15:49] <mpt> mvo, so when Synaptic says "Fonts (universe)", does that mean there's a "Fonts" section in Ubuntu generally, and it just happens to have packages only in Universe? Or is the section actually called "Fonts (universe)"?
[15:50] <mpt> hm, I see apt-cache show shows "Section: universe/fonts"
[15:50] <mpt> Why is the "universe/" there?
[15:51] <mvo> mpt: it means that it did not find anything in fonts, only fonts/universe
[15:52] <mpt> fagan, I do intend to spec how plug-ins and extensions will be shown in a much more helpful way <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Presenting%20add-on%20packages>
[15:52] <mpt> fagan, but in general, I think the more integrated plug-in/extension installation is with the actual program that uses it, the better
[15:53] <mpt> fagan, for example, a directory of installable screensavers probably would work better in the Screensaver preferences than in the USC
[16:08] <ulath> hi, wich package do i need to develop kde4 apps in kdevelop3 on kubuntu 9.04 ?
[16:09] <ulath> when i start the "new project" wizward there are no kde4 applications availible
[16:09] <mpt> mvo, so I'll report individual bugs on packages that have the wrong section
[16:12] <kirkland> pitti: ttx asked me to ping you; and ask you to hold on that eucalyptus publication to -updates momentarily
[16:13] <mvo> mpt: yes, its probably good if you tag them as well
[16:18] <ttx> pitti: around ?
[16:18] <pitti> ttx: on the phone
[16:19] <ttx> pitti: ok -- i'll explain the situation here and you can answer when you're done with the phonecall :)
[16:20] <ttx> pitti: About the eucalyptus karmic SRU (ubuntu7.3) we just discovered that fix for bug 460089 introduced a small regression, basically no easy way the clean the CC state anymore.
[16:21] <ttx> pitti: kirkland will upload a 7.4 with a one-liner fix [ "${CLEAN}" = 1 ] -> [ "${CLEAN}" = "1" ] to fix that and we'll restart the SRU testing process (again).
[16:22] <kirkland> pitti: the change ttx speaks of is this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331811/
[16:22] <ttx> pitti: though, given the impact of the one-liner, testing should actually go fast
[16:22] <kirkland> pitti: I think it should be a pretty clear shell bug
[16:22] <ttx> and we still hope to publish that SRU soon.
[16:25] <ttx> pitti: so please reject eucalyptus...-ubuntu7.3 from -proposed, we'll upload and fast-track a new one.
[16:25] <pitti> re
[16:25] <pitti> ttx: hm, 1 or "1" shouldn't make a difference..
[16:26] <ttx> kirkland: ^
[16:26] <pitti> ttx: I can't "reject" it, and I don't think we should remove it from -proposed after such a long time
[16:26] <pitti> ttx: we can of course get a new one into -proposed
[16:26] <ttx> pitti: ok
[16:26] <pitti> ttx, kirkland: if you do a new upload, please include the previous changelog with -v
[16:26] <pitti> but I don't understand the impact of changing 1 to "1"
[16:26] <ebroder> Yeah, I'm confused by that: http://paste.ubuntu.com/331815/
[16:26] <kirkland>  foo="1"
[16:26] <kirkland> [ "${foo}" = 1 ] && echo true
[16:27] <rcbwnka> ==
[16:27] <kirkland> pitti: I agree with you ... there's something else non-deterministic at play here
[16:27] <kirkland> ttx: arg arg arg
[16:27] <kirkland> ttx: sometimes all of those files get cleared, and sometimes they don't
[16:27] <ttx> ?
[16:27] <kirkland> ttx: i'm not kidding
[16:28] <ttx> kirkland: ah, you told me the "1" thing was fixing it, so I believed you
[16:28] <rcbwnka> "=" mean make this number equal to whilst "==" means "Its equal to".
[16:28] <kirkland> ttx: i believed me too
[16:28] <kirkland> ttx: :-) it did work a few times
[16:28] <pitti> == is a bashism, though
[16:28] <ttx> I've seen stranger upstart things :)
[16:29] <pitti> but "" is just quoting, and not part of the actual comparison
[16:29] <kirkland> ttx: now it's back to the behavior I reported in Bug #490382
[16:29] <ogra> rcbwnka, == is not POSIX compliant, it needs to be =
[16:29] <kirkland> rcbwnka: you're off base, we're talking posix shell code here
[16:29] <mpt> mvo, reported and tagged: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=metadata
[16:29] <ccheney> heh OOo apparently now has hppa support
[16:30] <rcbwnka> kirkland: Im very old in the game, i should know.
[16:30] <ogra> ccheney, does that move armel one up on your prio list ? *g*
[16:30] <ccheney> ogra: heh :)
[16:30] <rcbwnka> Wow! record breaker! :) http://mange.dynalias.org/linux/misc/scripts/sys_uptime/downloads.htm
[16:31] <rcbwnka> 5200 a few months ago, perhaps now itll be even more cool
[16:33] <rcbwnka> ogra: #!/bin/bash ... POSIX itll be. Thats not your job, its the job of the underlying C code.
[16:33] <ogra> ??
[16:33] <rcbwnka> You cant beat C
[16:33] <rcbwnka> Ill check out the new "Go" though
[16:34] <ogra> rcbwnka, note that #!/bin/sh points to dash in ubuntu, so script code used needs to be "bashism free" ... == is bash specific
[16:34] <ogra> as pitti said above already
[16:35] <ogra> if you explicitly use #!/bin/bash that doesnt matter ... but we dont use that for system wide scripts usually
[16:35] <rcbwnka> ogra: Read what i wrote. Youre ok though, as a thinker.
[16:36] <rcbwnka> "<rcbwnka> ogra: #!/bin/bash" Does not mean anything else then Bash
[16:36] <rcbwnka> Sorry, go on...
[16:37] <rcbwnka> Anyone tried "Go" though ?
[16:39] <rcbwnka> ogra: Whats the need for calling it dash, when in fact its bash ?
[16:39] <ogra> dash isnt bash
[16:39] <rcbwnka> :)
[16:39] <ogra> its a different shell
[16:39] <rcbwnka> Aha...
[16:39] <ogra> faster, smaller etc
[16:39] <ogra> and POSIX compliant ....
[16:40] <ogra> bash adds specific stuff on top of POSIX
[16:40] <rcbwnka> Like compliance with C and C++ that are already POSIX you mean ?
[16:40] <ogra> if you write scripts that should work system wide in ubuntu you are supposed to avoid such "bashisms"
[16:40] <rcbwnka> ~Posix
[16:48] <rcbwnka> ogra, is this the Boulder Dash: http://www.brothersoft.com/dash-download-64685.html
[16:49] <ogra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Almquist_shell
[16:49] <rcbwnka> Read it.
[16:50] <rcbwnka> Im not saying its bad, but why would he want to diverge from "==" as equal to as you have said ?
[16:50] <rcbwnka> Thats very much POSIX
[16:51] <rcbwnka> Do you also think that Wodim isnt CDrecord ?
[16:52] <rcbwnka> Or derived there from ?
[16:52] <rcbwnka> All they actually did was fork the name and made sure the author couldnt schock them too much
[16:53] <maxb> james_w: Hi. If you have a moment, could you go log hunting / retry the UDD import for subversion 1.6.6dfsg-2 ? Thanks.
[16:53] <rcbwnka> A bit of a change was coded into the argv[] readings
[16:53] <rcbwnka> maxb: ?
[16:53] <rcbwnka> Lol, how malplaced
[16:56] <rcbwnka> Hmm, i have used all Ubuntu releases for some years and now the pulseaudio system doesnt work as well as in Fedora for example. Why not grab their version of pulse-audio and their patches ?
[16:58] <rcbwnka> Or the Slackware one etc ?
[16:58] <rcbwnka> Arch, Gentoo...
[17:01] <Keybuk> rcbwnka: I need to introduce you to some Fedora users I know ;-)
[17:01] <Keybuk> the Fedora PulseAudio maintainer is absolutely convinced that PA is perfect in Fedora
[17:01] <Keybuk> Fedora users ... much less so
[17:01] <Keybuk> obviously Fedora users are much harder to find than the Fedora PA maintainer
[17:01] <Keybuk> they tend to be quieter, for a start
[17:02] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: Coders rock, let them rock. Very simple.
[17:02] <ogra> Keybuk, LOOOOOL
[17:03] <ogra> !!!!
[17:03] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: Users will always leve feedback that the coders will fix, or should fix.
[17:03] <rcbwnka> leave
[17:03] <kklimonda> Keybuk: are you saying that there are actually some voices that PA may not be the right way? /me is getting scared of another audio revolution..
[17:04]  * ogra thinks that was actually only funny if you know the PA maintainer :)
[17:04] <rcbwnka> Ive never seen anyone of you before beeing on irc 24/7 for 20 years now.
[17:04] <rcbwnka> ogra neither.
[17:04] <ogra> trhen you missed the last 5 years obviously :)
[17:05] <rcbwnka> ogra: No. I did not.
[17:05] <jdong> lol I can't recall the last time ogra wasn't on IRC ;-)
[17:05] <jdong> and that dates back to crackports days ;-)
[17:05] <ogra> heh
[17:05] <jdong> good times... (ok not really!)
[17:05] <ogra> well, i pretty much hung around here with pre warty
[17:05] <ogra> i didnt do much IRC before that though
[17:06] <fagan> mpt: yeah I understand that but having it centralised too would be awesome I think
[17:06] <rcbwnka> ogra must be very good then. Is this true ogra ?
[17:06] <Keybuk> rcbwnka: you don't know too many coders, do you? :)
[17:06] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: I do.
[17:06] <Keybuk> and the ones you know listen to all user feedback, without ever thinking that they're right, damnit? :p
[17:06] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: I began patching things back in 1994-5
[17:07] <rcbwnka> Whats your name ?
[17:07] <Keybuk> I'm trying very hard to resist replying "Lennart Poettering" for the humour value
[17:08] <jdong> lol
[17:08] <rcbwnka> Or Microsoft's Hahn
[17:09] <Keybuk> I wasn't patching things back in 1994-5
[17:09] <ogra> *grin*
[17:09] <Keybuk> I was still at school
[17:09] <Keybuk> and mostly hanging around in the library being a nerd
[17:09] <rcbwnka> Im going out. Be all you can be though.
[17:09] <Keybuk> that was the last year I nearly got expelled actually ;)
[17:43] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: Define "Nerd". I always thought it was "Entity with a far reaching interrest in something" ?
[17:44] <Keybuk> rcbwnka: I used to have wear a Starfleet Comm Badge above my school's logo on my uniform? :p
[17:44] <Keybuk> does that count
[17:44] <ion> :-D
[17:44] <rcbwnka> So, if people arent nerds they are zombies ? :) /almost no will to live ?
[17:45] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: Why ? :P
[17:45] <Keybuk> because I was a very sad young man
[17:46] <rcbwnka> Keybuk: I used to keep classes calm. Like beeing an equlibrium.
[17:46] <rcbwnka> equilibrium
[17:46] <rcbwnka> I used to beat the hell out of people before that.
[17:47] <rcbwnka> But they deserved it. Not geeks or so.
[17:47] <rcbwnka> It was like "Noone messes with my classmates or school" etc.
[17:47] <rcbwnka> A long time ago.
[17:48] <rcbwnka> to have an interrest is to have a livna
[17:49] <rcbwnka> LifeLine
[17:50] <rcbwnka> Nicotine has a very high soothing effect. Perhaps good for hyperactive children etc ?
[17:50] <rcbwnka> Bad drug though.
[17:54] <rcbwnka> My homepage dood seems to be on vacation again. Can someone ping this guy to make some updates? -> http://gadmintools.flippedweb.com
[18:02] <Ng> my markov bot senses are tingling wildly ;)
[18:02] <slangasek> superm1: sorry, no idea why mythbuntu was skipped on 1129; seems to have run today, though?
[18:02] <ebroder> Ng: I'm glad it's not just me
[18:06] <ManDay_> hey guys, the alternate installation cd is just a mess. did you know that you should never try to install packages through aptitude but rather select them and then quit apitutde with q in order to install them?
[18:06] <ManDay_> its such a pita
[18:07] <ccheney> ManDay_: use dselect :)
[18:08] <ManDay_> dselect?
[18:08] <ManDay_> the installer opens me aptitude
[18:11] <superm1> slangasek, yup, okay no problem then.  i was just worried i broke things with the seed changes i made
[18:12] <ccheney> ManDay_: oh nm i was mostly joking, i haven't done an alternate install in several months so can't remember how it works
[18:12] <ManDay_> well its onyl for the bloody karmic anyway
[18:12] <ManDay_> the whole alternate install of karmic seems a mess
[18:13] <ManDay_> aptitude in the installer one of the smalles problems
[18:14] <ManDay_> i wonder what they have changed and why
[18:14] <toobaz_> Is there someone knowing if behind the choice of putting nautilus scripts in /usr/share/nautilus_scripts and assuming they are installed there there was some discussion?
[18:14] <ManDay_> jaunty worked just flawlessly
[18:14] <toobaz_> (in case not): is there some place where one can get in touch with Ubuntu Gnome devs?
[18:14] <ManDay_> #gnome ?
[18:14] <ManDay_> or gnome.org ?
[18:14] <ManDay_> just one stupid guess
[18:15] <rcbwnka> I have 2 problems with the more recent incarnations: 1. Sound blows although on Fedora and other dists its perfect (Check patches /+/-/).
[18:15] <toobaz_> ManDay_: it's not a general GNOME problem... as far as I know, only Ubuntu installs those scripts system-wide
[18:15] <ebroder> ManDay_: If you actually have specific problems with the installer, people can try to help fix those.  Its something that Cairo can be compiled with (Shitty little lib).
[18:17] <rcbwnka> lib...something...
[18:17] <rcbwnka> Its not even required
[18:17] <rcbwnka> Or useful
[18:17] <rcbwnka> Pixman is ok though
[18:22] <superm1> maybe i shouldn't feed a troll, but rcbwnka if you have particular things to complain about, it's more constructive to provide specifics about them on bugs than whining "everything is broke, FIX IT" on irc.  Eg, pulseaudio is bad at Y because ubuntu is missing patch X that fedora has, or ubuntu patch Z is causing problems.
[18:22] <rcbwnka> poppler is also cool
[18:22] <ManDay_> ebroder, read my first comment
[18:22] <ManDay_> besides, i can provide you with plenty of bugs
[18:23] <ManDay_> ;)
[18:23] <rcbwnka> superm1> Thought someone but me kept track
[18:23] <ebroder> ManDay_: Have you reported any of the bugs to LP?
[18:23] <ManDay_> no
[18:23] <rcbwnka> Im tracking the slowness down, hold on.
[18:24] <rcbwnka> Maybe its some sv
[18:24] <rcbwnka> SVG lib
[18:24] <superm1> rcbwnka,  of course there is a pulseaudio maintainer in Ubuntu and he's watching other distros and upstream for patches all the time i'm sure, but if you have a particular oversight he missed, it's best to direct it to him on a bug in launchpad
[18:24]  * ogra points rcbwnka to bugs-launchpad.net and calls it a day
[18:24] <ogra> *bugs.launchpad.net
[18:25] <rcbwnka> superm1: Assuredly so, i may know more then you know. What i want is input. Dont you want input _
[18:25] <rcbwnka> ?
[18:25] <ogra> yes, thats why we have bugs.launchpad.net
[18:26] <ogra> it keeps noise out of this channel
[18:26] <rcbwnka> Have you disabled Glitz and patches ?
[18:26] <ogra> if you have concrete oveseen patches please file bugs
[18:26] <rcbwnka> IE: Is glitz installed ?
[18:27] <rcbwnka> ogra ?
[18:28] <rcbwnka> Im thinking there could be some remnant patches for glitz etc so that the whole desktop etc becomes sucky
[18:28] <ogra> rcbwnka, if you think so, why not file a bug and wait for respoinse from the maintainer, that would keep the channel a lot quieter
[18:29] <rcbwnka> Ive given you the search criteria for the issues.
[18:29] <ogra> and i'm doing actual work
[18:29] <ManDay> its unbelievable
[18:29] <ManDay> i cant get that **** to install
[18:29] <Daviey> rcbwnka: that isn't how the process works.. if you think there is a bug, you need to raise it and it'll go through the normal work flow.
[18:29] <ogra> i dont do searches for $random_dude_asking_stuff_on_IRC
[18:30] <rcbwnka> Daviey: If i was a normal user perhaps. /snickers
[18:30] <superm1> no, this is the process for EVERYONE.
[18:30] <Daviey> rcbwnka: Are you intentionally trolling?
[18:31] <rcbwnka> So if i found a fatal flaw or a remarkable "PowerUp" for the dist yould say "Naah, file a bugreport" :)
[18:31] <ebroder> rcbwnka: Yes
[18:31] <ebroder> It's exactly what any of us would do in the same situation
[18:32] <rcbwnka> HAi!
[18:32] <rcbwnka> Hehe
[18:34] <rcbwnka> Ive always thought out of the box as i feel sitting in a box would be mindnumbingly odd for me.
[18:35] <rcbwnka> My iron maiden CD just broke, is it legal for me to download a new one (considering i bought this one) ?
[18:35] <hyperair> is anyone else noticing dpkg's large amount of memory usage recently?
[18:35] <rcbwnka> Not that ill care, but...
[18:35] <Keybuk> rcbwnka: that isn't really on-topic for this channel
[18:36] <rcbwnka> I know, i got a bit angry considering it broke.
[18:36] <Keybuk> this still isn't the place
[18:37] <RainCT> toobaz_: #ubuntu-desktop?
[18:37] <Keybuk> this channel is for Ubuntu developers to discuss things they're working on
[18:37] <Keybuk> not a place for users to harass Ubuntu developers
[18:37] <rcbwnka> Baby wants milk ?
[18:37] <toobaz_> RainCT: uhm... looks interesting. will try
[18:40] <RainCT> Keybuk: btw, no hurry from my side, but do you remember the MoM redesign patch is still waiting for review? :)
[18:41] <Keybuk> RainCT: no?
[18:43] <RainCT> Keybuk: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~rainct/merge-o-matic/redesign/+merge/9075
[18:46] <Keybuk> RainCT: there's lots of unrelated changes in this branch
[18:46] <Keybuk> e.g.
[18:46] <Keybuk> -    return md5.new(open(filename).read()).hexdigest()
[18:46] <Keybuk> +    return hashlib.md5(open(filename).read()).hexdigest()
[18:46] <Keybuk> why?
[18:47] <RainCT> Keybuk: because md5 is deprecated :)
[18:47] <Keybuk> RainCT: bearing in mind this runs on *hardy*
[18:47] <Keybuk> which has a much older Python
[18:48] <elmo> Keybuk: it's only python 2.5 :)
[18:48] <elmo> Keybuk: which has hashlib
[18:48] <RainCT> Keybuk: Yeah, but new enough for hashlib
[18:49] <Keybuk> +# Copyright © 2008-2009 Siegfried-A. Gevatter Pujals<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:49] <Keybuk> ... I'm pretty sure we'll need copyright assignment for this
[18:50] <Keybuk> it's not in "the list", but it's a very large patch
[18:51] <sgallagh> mathiaz: Just a heads-up. We just released our feature-complete beta of SSSD today. We'd love to see it get some exposure in lucid.
[18:51] <rcbwnka> http://liboil.freedesktop.org/wiki /Hehe
[18:52] <sgallagh> mathiaz: The plan is to spend the next 2-3 weeks addressing any bugs we can find, then releasing 1.0 final.
[18:52] <rcbwnka> Seems to be required by gstreamer
[18:52] <RainCT> Keybuk: Why would you "need" copyright? iirc it's GPL
[18:52] <rcbwnka> And automatically added to the desktops of caught lingering on the systems as libs
[18:53] <rcbwnka> of&if
[18:53] <Keybuk> RainCT: http://www.canonical.com/contributors
[18:59] <RainCT> Keybuk: Yeah, I know that page, and it contains no rationale to justify what they are asking for.
[18:59] <Keybuk> RainCT: I'm really not interested with arguing about it with you
[18:59] <Keybuk> if you're not willing to sign the form, then I'll mark the merge request as rejected and move on :)
[19:01] <cody-somerville> Keybuk, MoM doesn't appear to be listed on that page as covered under the agreement... or am I just missing it?
[19:01] <Keybuk> like I said, it's not on the list, but it's a very big patch
[19:02] <rcbwnka> RainCT> Copyright is good because i assume you wouldnt want to spend years and years only to have some snotnosed punk write their name on your works RIGHT ?
[19:03] <RainCT> rcbwnka: Right, so that's why I want to keep my copyright and not give the right out to others without a good reason for it :)
[19:03] <rcbwnka> Yeah, to not have them claim they did the work you performed. The code itself is still HIGHLY USABLE
[19:04] <elmo> RainCT: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.html
[19:04] <rcbwnka> Its also why youre an outcast if you borrow large chunks of code and never say that in your sources
[19:06] <rcbwnka> Credits you know
[19:07] <rcbwnka> RainCT: Do you have any more questions pertaining to this subject ?
[19:09] <slangasek> rcbwnka: given that TTBOMK you aren't an employee of Canonical, I think it would be best if you not speak for them regarding /their/ motivations for having a copyright assignment policy...
[19:09] <rcbwnka> Is IBMS Postfix Non/revokable yet btw ?
[19:10] <Keybuk> rcbwnka: that kind of question is better asked in #ubuntu
[19:10] <RainCT> slangasek: I'll think about it, but in any case if I sign that I'd change the text to be specific to this particular MoM patch, I suppose that's OK?
[19:10] <rcbwnka> slangasek: Im a much older entity and i hope Canonical are in line with what this Swede thinks.
[19:10] <lamont> rcbwnka: 2.0 released with a version that met DFSG guidelines == no retroactive revocation
[19:11] <rcbwnka> Good!... Finally IBM rocks on this matter as well.
[19:11] <rcbwnka> Thanks lamont.
[19:12] <rcbwnka> Now i can constuct some guis for it
[19:13] <lamont> rcbwnka: mind you, I uploaded 2.0.0 to debian in 2002...
[19:14] <rcbwnka> lamont: I had many things todo, and now they are done. Almost 40 years earlier then i first thought.
[19:15] <rcbwnka> I see ill have to make a better version of what microsoft calls IIS. Too easy :)
[19:16] <rcbwnka> Im gonna download a copy of my original Iron Maiden CD and not think twise about it.
[19:17] <rcbwnka> I bought it, its mine and its their commitment to provide patches
[19:17] <rcbwnka> :)
[19:17]  * cody-somerville twitches briefly.
[19:17] <ebroder> Can I call the channel ops yet?
[19:18] <rcbwnka> no
[19:18] <Pici> rcbwnka: Please be mindful of the channel topic, this is not a chat channel.
[19:19] <Pici> #ubuntu-offtopic exists if you want to be random somewhere.
[19:19] <rcbwnka> I shall be utmost that. MIT, please be nice broder
[19:22] <RainCT> elmo: btw, (just asking out of curiosity), didn't they recently set a precedent for the GPL being enforced by someone other than the copyright holder? Or wasn't that in the US?
[19:23] <elmo> RainCT: i'm not aware of anything like that happening in the US or the UK but I may have missed it
[19:34] <rcbwnka> Pici: Some day, as a coder i perhaps can, chat like the do to day, in this chat channel maybe i can ?
[19:35] <Pici> rcbwnka: you're free to talk here if you're going to be on topic, but it doesn't look like you're doing that.
[19:37] <rcbwnka> Pici: I was better then on topic. Alright, i shall tryeth.
[19:38] <pitti> Keybuk: udev bits committed upstream now
[19:39] <Keybuk> pitti: yup, I saw
[19:39] <Keybuk> am pulling atm
[19:39] <pitti> \o/
[19:40] <rcbwnka> Yawn.
[19:40] <pitti> Keybuk: for testing, can you please pull the CK packages from https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ppa ?
[19:40] <rcbwnka> Im tossing
[19:41] <rcbwnka> Pappaaa ?
[19:41] <rcbwnka> Oh my Pappaaa / Got bored there for a while listening to boredom.
[19:43] <rcbwnka> Have you lost the developing hard rock you once had ? / Focus on getting angry and youll have it back in notime.
[19:43] <slangasek> rcbwnka: you've been asked repeatedly not to use this channel for off-topic chatting, and you don't seem to be taking the hint
[19:44] <rcbwnka> No, Dirk.
[19:44] <rcbwnka> slangasek: How many programs did you create that now reside onj magnetic tape or tractor/hole tape ?
[19:44] <rcbwnka> Sit back and relax
[19:45] <rcbwnka> Ill not husrt you or anyone else
[19:46] <slangasek> rcbwnka: you're diluting the utility of this channel by filling it with irrelevant commentary.  You've been asked to stop.   Why shouldnt I have great knowledge over most things, having created things ? / sit back and relax my friend
[19:49]  * cody-somerville blinks.
[19:49] <rcbwnka> Nothing to see here... move along...
[19:49] <rcbwnka> Blink
[19:49] <slangasek> pah, what's trying to pull all of KDE onto my Ubuntu system when upgrading to lucid?
[19:50] <jdong> ScottK...
[19:50] <jdong> *ducks*
[19:51]  * ScottK blames compiz.
[19:51] <Tm_T> slangasek: oh, our invasion shouldn't be that obvious
[19:51] <rcbwnka> jdong: Schloong :P
[19:52] <slangasek> jdong: nope, quodlibet-plugins
[19:52] <slangasek> hmm, not that either
[19:52] <slangasek> oh; yes, yes it is
[19:55] <rcbwnka> slangasek: Are you spamming this channel with uselessness ?
[19:55] <slangasek> no, I'm discussing Ubuntu development
[19:55] <rcbwnka> Good, good.
[19:56] <rcbwnka> Are you against lesbians then ?
[19:56] <kirkland> can we please kick/ban rcbwnka ?
[19:56] <jdong> !ops | rcbwnka
[19:57] <ebroder> Thank goodness. THank you, Pici
[19:57] <ajmitch> thanks pitti
[19:57] <jdong> thanks, Pici :)
[19:57] <ajmitch> s/pitti/pici/
[19:57] <jdong> and Pricey you missed the fun!
[19:57]  * kirkland thanks the IRC gods
[19:57] <Pici> np
[19:58]  * lamont now remembers how to become channelop.
[20:01] <mneptok> dialup. how quaint.
[20:02] <ajmitch> mneptok: don't swear please
[20:02] <RainCT> mneptok: must have been trolling to survive the frustration
[20:02] <mneptok> ajmitch: ISDN you, pal!
[20:02] <mneptok> hmmm .... ISDN *is* a four-letter word.
[20:02] <ajmitch> mneptok: it's been awhile since I used that, when it seemed so very fast :)
[20:03] <Tm_T> what's wrong with dialup?
[20:04] <mneptok> Tm_T: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091014/1201166530.shtml
[20:04] <mneptok> Tm_T: know your rights!
[20:05] <Tm_T> mneptok: I know, and I'm still happy with my occasional gprs usage
[20:05] <mneptok> Tm_T: i'm beginning to doubt your Finnish-ness.
[20:06]  * mneptok prescribes a sauna, 3 gulps of salmiakkikossu, and a sisu transplant
[20:06] <Tm_T> mneptok: I got all those here, thanks
[20:06] <mannyv> What do I have to do if I want to pull a few packages from one package under GPL and use them in a package I am working on  package
[20:07] <ion> Salmiakkikossu is awesome.
[20:08] <Tm_T> I really don't use much alcohol internally though, don't like how it affect brain
[20:13] <pitti> kirkland: hm, so is there a regression in the euca update, or is it just the same race condition that was in final, too?
[20:13] <kirkland> pitti: it's the latter
[20:13] <pitti> kirkland: so it's good to go?
[20:13] <kirkland> pitti: i'm really sorry about the shell quoting noise
[20:13] <pitti> no problem :)
[20:13] <kirkland> pitti: yes, go ahead and push
[20:13] <kirkland> pitti: we'll have a new one for -proposed very soon
[20:14] <kirkland> pitti: again, my apologies
[20:14] <micahg> pitti: is there a way to run apport for a single instance anymore?
[20:14] <pitti> kirkland: no worries, I was just unsure whether the v-failed in bug 460089 still applied
[20:14] <pitti> micahg: in lucid that was fixed again (force_restart=1)
[20:14] <pitti> unfortunately it got broken in karmic
[20:15] <kirkland> pitti: no worse than in final, as you said
[20:15] <kirkland> pitti: ie, i don't think the SRU introduces this
[20:15] <micahg> pitti: is an SRU planned for it?
[20:16] <pitti> micag: not from my side, it's not that important; if someone else wants to pick it up, it's acceptable, of course
[20:16] <micahg> pitti: ok, thanks
[21:01] <ScottK> pitti (or any other DMB member who is around): We approved our first kubuntu-dev application, but are unfortunatlely lacking the one kubuntu-dev who can add people (see ubuntu-devel for details of the meeting).  Would one of you please add https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman to ~kubuntu-dev?
[21:03] <pitti> wohooo!
[21:04] <pitti> ScottK: do you use any standard timeout?
[21:05] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks for taking care of it.  I'm not sure what you mean?
[21:05] <pitti> ScottK: nevermind, that was set automatically already; so, "done"
[21:05] <pitti> ScottK: s/timeout/expiry/
[21:05] <ScottK> Cool.  thanks
[21:05] <ScottK> I got it.
[21:06] <ScottK> This is a bit of a historic moment I think.
[21:06] <geser> pitti: did you see my patch for pkg-create-dbgsym to fix the FTBFS from this morning?
[21:06] <pitti> geser: sorry, no; is it in a bug?
[21:07] <geser> pitti: no, didn't file a bug report for it yet
[21:07] <geser> pitti: found the problem: the dh_strip wrapper knows about --keep-debug but not about its short name -k. Could you please apply http://paste.ubuntu.com/331631/ to dh_strip from pkg-create-dbgsym?
[21:07] <pitti> geser: aah
[21:07] <pitti> geser: nevermind about a bug, I'll apply it right now
[21:08] <pitti> hm, the -k is new?
[21:08] <pitti> I'm fairly sure it wasn't there when I wrote this initially
[21:08] <pitti> anyway, good catch, thanks!
[21:10] <sebner> ScottK: congratulations then. kubuntu ftw!
[21:10] <sebner> huhu pitti geser :D
[21:10]  * pitti waves to sebner, guten Abend!
[21:10] <robbiew> pitti: do you know what's holding up getting bug 451304 processed for karmic-proposed?
[21:11] <sebner> pitti: Guter Abend in der Tat, mein erster mathe test war positiv. No need for suicide yet ;)
[21:11] <pitti> robbiew: someone else than me needs to process it (since I uploaded it); I pinged slangasek/cjwatson
[21:11] <robbiew> ah...that makes sense
[21:11] <pitti> sebner: congrats!
[21:12] <robbiew>  okay, thanks
[21:12] <sebner> pitti: thx :)
[21:13] <geser> Hi sebner
[21:14] <DktrKranz> pitti, geser: ubuntu-dev-tools and buildd share usr/bin/buildd and usr/share/man/man1/buildd.1.gz, what about renaming them to lp_buildds* (or whatever)?
[21:15] <pitti> DktrKranz: I don't understand -- isn't buildd a script from ubuntu-dev-tools?
[21:15] <wgrant> DktrKranz, pitti: There is already a piece of software called lp-buildd. Please don't call it lp_buildd.
[21:20] <mathiaz> sgallagh: great - thanks for the heads up.
[21:24] <geser> pitti: yes, buildd is a script from u-d-t and also from "buildd" which cause a filename conflict
[21:24] <pitti> oh, I see
[21:25] <geser> so we need a new name for buildd (from u-d-t)
[21:25] <pitti> geser, DktrKranz: since it's not really about the buildds, but the builds, how about renaming it to "ubuntu-build"?
[21:25] <geser> what about "buildctl"?
[21:28] <pitti> WFM
[21:28] <pitti> pkgbuild, ubuntu-build, ...
[21:28] <soren> buildkit!
[21:28]  * soren runs away
[21:28] <ajmitch> soren: no, bad!
[21:28] <ebroder> Hehe! Linux needs more kits
[21:29] <soren> If we had a Quickly for writing kits, it could be called KitKit.
[21:30] <wgrant> soren: But then you need the Quickly mode to edit kit templates...
[21:31] <soren> KitKitKit? :(
[21:31] <jjardon> hello, There is https://bugs.launchpad.net/gtk, should  https://bugs.launchpad.net/libgtk be removed?
[21:31] <ScottK> soren: I think KitKit is reserved for the Kit management service.
[21:35] <slangasek> bdrung_: why is adblock-plus not a merge from Debian testing?  (looking at it in the NEW queue, and looking at Debian to verify that this change has also been made there, seemingly independently...)
[21:36] <bdrung_> slangasek: it's a merge
[21:36] <slangasek> bdrung_: no, it's not; 1.1.1-0ubuntu4 is an additional Ubuntu revision, whereas Debian is currently at 1.1.1-2
[21:36] <bdrung_> slangasek: ups, you are right (different sources for 1.1.1)
[21:37] <bdrung_> slangasek: the next upstream release will lead to a merge
[21:37] <slangasek> okie
[21:37] <bdrung_> slangasek: all the other xul extension package are merges
[21:37] <slangasek> alright :)
[21:38] <bdrung_> slangasek: the plan for lucid is to rename all extensions to xul-ext-$extname
[21:38] <slangasek> yeah... I've gathered that :-)
[21:41] <geser> DktrKranz, pitti: going to rename "buildd" to "ubuntu-build" then if nobody objects
[21:43] <DktrKranz> geser: fine for me, if you do that change now, mind adding (Closes: #558816) to changelog entry?
[21:43] <geser> sure
[21:44] <DktrKranz> thanks :)
[22:18] <jdong> pitti: poke; just out of curiousity, a long time back we talked briefly about ubuntu-sru <-> motu-sru merging; do we still intend to do it?
[22:18] <pitti> jdong: we should probably, now that packageset based uploaders are a reality; what do you think?
[22:19] <jdong> pitti: *nods* Yeah, I think it makes sense to do so; the sooner the awkward limbo state ends IMO the better ;-)
[22:20] <pitti> jdong: ok, so I should write to u-devel@ and the usru/motu-sru team members tomorrow
[22:20] <jdong> pitti: cool, sounds great
[23:30] <Keybuk> james_w: how do you want reports of problems with bzr imports?
[23:30] <james_w> hey Keybuk. Please file a bug against the 'udd' LP project
[23:31] <Laney> hiya
[23:31] <Laney> james_w: do you care for bugs for imports which are out of date?
[23:32] <Laney> (don't know if you have a script to catch this)
[23:32] <james_w> Laney: yes please
[23:32] <Keybuk> james_w: should I file bugs for making branches the lp:ubuntu/ branch?
[23:32] <james_w> Keybuk: you can, if you mailed me then they will be included already
[23:33] <Keybuk> you haven't done those yet, right? :p
[23:35] <james_w> nope :-)
[23:35] <Keybuk> two of the locations have changed, have replied to my mail
[23:35] <Keybuk> what about new ones of those going forwards?
[23:39] <james_w> you can just push to the lp:ubuntu/ branches directly
[23:39] <bdrung_> Keybuk: why is lucid twice in 'lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/lucid/ureadahead/lucid'?
[23:39] <james_w> oh
[23:39] <james_w> no, silly me
[23:40] <james_w> once the importer has imported the new package then you will be able to push
[23:40] <james_w> we have a bit a bootstrap issue, but the LP devs have ideas
[23:44] <slangasek> james_w: lp:ubuntu/foo2zjs fails to reconstitute an usptream tarball
[23:44] <slangasek> (it looks like the Debian branch may also be /missing/ the latest upstream code, fwiw)
[23:46] <Keybuk> james_w:  push --overwrite ?
[23:46] <Keybuk> what about when the package doesn't exist? e.g. lp:ubuntu/upstart doesn't exist
[23:46] <Keybuk> can I just push to that to make it?
[23:47] <lifeless> Keybuk: thats because the import hasn't worked.
[23:47] <Keybuk> I'm surprised at that :)
[23:47]  * Keybuk would have thought upstart was a simple one
[23:47] <lifeless> Keybuk: I don't think you can push to create it; you can push to lp:~ubuntu-core-devs/ubuntu/lucid/upstart/trunk
[23:47] <james_w> Keybuk: no, that's what I mean by a bootstrap problem, the short names are like symbolic links
[23:47] <Keybuk> lifeless: right, and that doesn't make it show up as lp:ubuntu/upstart - which is the beginning of this conversation :p
[23:47] <james_w> the importer will create one, or I can do it for you
[23:48] <lifeless> james_w: are you able to tell the importer that a given branch is a *debian* packaging branch?
[23:49] <james_w> um, set it as lp:debian/foo
[23:49] <lifeless> yes
[23:49] <lifeless> and have imports from debian go into it.
[23:50] <james_w> you mean from the Debian maintainer's Vcs-Bzr?
[23:50] <lifeless> huh?
[23:50] <Keybuk> james_w: so, just to clarify -- the lp:ubuntu/mountall is the importer's version.  If I just push --overwrite my mountall branch over that ... things will be nice and shiny?
[23:51] <Keybuk> or will there be a datacentre holocaust?
[23:52] <maco> oh oh i have a james question too! on native software, which do we branch? im thinking update-manger.. lp:update-managr, lp:ubuntu/update-manager, tht long ~ubuntu-core-dev/.../lucid one...which?
[23:52] <james_w> Keybuk: the importer will tell me that someone did a push --overwrite, then I will check that all is well and tell it to use your branch as they authoritative branch
[23:53] <james_w> maco: it will be lp:ubuntu/update-manager, and perhaps lp:update-manager, but this conversation is partly about how to make that happen
[23:53] <james_w> the rule will be use lp:ubuntu/<package> to get the content's of Ubuntu's <package>
[23:53] <james_w> we're just not quite 100% yet
[23:53] <james_w> lifeless: I don't understand what you are asking for
[23:54] <lifeless> I have a package I maintain *in debian*
[23:54] <lifeless> I want the lp:debian/package branch for that to be my bzr packaging branch.
[23:54] <Keybuk> you want to be able to commit to debian/bicyclerepairman ?
[23:54] <Keybuk> (to phrase the question properly?)
[23:54] <lifeless> And for imports the importer does from debian to go to that branch.
[23:55] <lifeless> Keybuk: actually python-testtools in this case, but yes.
[23:55] <james_w> lifeless: as I said, make lp:debian/foo point to that branch
[23:56] <Keybuk> james_w: maybe he's asking how to do that?
[23:56] <lifeless> james_w: you said something about the Vcs-BZR control field
[23:56] <james_w> the mechanics are exactly the same as Keybuk is asking about, I just haven't requested people come forward with suggestions
[23:56] <lifeless> james_w: which confused me.
[23:57] <lifeless> james_w: so, for things that we maintain in Debian, which is better ?
[23:58] <lifeless> and, does the importer know enough about only-synced packages to pull from lp:debian/foo


[04:14] <amazoniantoad> Hey guys. I'm trying to flash my phone to run ubuntu touch. Can anyone help me out?
[05:03] <amazoniantoad> The channel seems empty
[05:03] <amazoniantoad> :/
[05:16] <gry> a bit
[05:16] <gry> i think they just use the web forum more actively
[05:17] <gry> seems to be listed as official channel, so we can just stay here and help out
[05:17] <amazoniantoad> okay
[05:17] <gry> what's your device?
[05:46] <amazoniantoad> gry, sorry I was working on the phone
[05:46] <amazoniantoad> I have a Google Pixel 3a XL
[05:47] <amazoniantoad> The installer seems to run fine, but then I'm stuck at the fastboot mode screen with an error, something to do with boot.img
[05:47] <amazoniantoad> My device version is sargo
[05:49] <amazoniantoad> or...it might be bonito?
[05:49] <amazoniantoad> I think it's actually bonito


[12:57] <coreymon77> guys
[12:57] <coreymon77> there is a mistake in the kubuntu faq
[12:57] <gnomefreak> fix it?
[12:57] <gnomefreak> on the wiki?
[12:57] <coreymon77> no
[12:57] <coreymon77> on the faq page
[12:57] <coreymon77> i cant fix it
[12:58] <coreymon77> kubuntu.org/faq.php
[12:58] <coreymon77> there is a mistake on there
[12:58] <coreymon77> and i cant fix it
[12:59] <coreymon77> Riddell: you there
[12:59] <coreymon77> ?
[12:59] <coreymon77> nixternal: hello?
[01:00] <coreymon77> stdin: yo
[01:00] <stdin> I can't fix it, no access
[01:00] <coreymon77> who can?
[01:01] <Riddell> coreymon77: patches welcome
[01:01] <Riddell> I can apply
[01:01] <coreymon77> ???
[01:01] <coreymon77> what do you mean?
[01:01] <Riddell> coreymon77: if you make me a patch I'm happy to apply
[01:01] <Riddell> you can also just tell me what the problem is but patches are easier on my side and I'm on holiday :)
[01:02] <coreymon77> you mean, if i take the html code, correct the mistake then send you the corrected thing?
[01:02] <coreymon77> Riddell: is that what you mena?
[01:02] <coreymon77> mean*
[01:03] <Riddell> coreymon77: send me a diff -u against the original
[01:03] <coreymon77> im on a mac
[01:03] <Riddell> you can do bzr branch http://kubuntu.org if you want to get really fancy
[01:03] <coreymon77> will that work?
[01:03] <Riddell> macs must have diff
[01:03] <coreymon77> its nothing special
[01:04] <coreymon77> a word is just missing from one of the answers which changes the meaning quite drastically
[01:04] <stdin> what's the mistake anyway?
[01:05] <Riddell> so just tell us what the issue is
[01:05] <coreymon77> under the can i sell kubuntu answer
[01:05] <coreymon77> it says you must provide the source code at cost
[01:05] <coreymon77> it should say at no cost
[01:06] <coreymon77> Riddell: you should probably also add the url for feisty source cds to that same answer
[01:07] <coreymon77> it only lists dapper and edgy atm
[01:07] <Riddell> that's not a mistake, it should say "at cost"
[01:07] <coreymon77> why
[01:07] <coreymon77> dont you have to provide it free?
[01:08] <coreymon77> at cost means you have to pay doesnt it?
[01:08] <Riddell> to stop people abusing the system, see GPL 2 3b
[01:08] <Riddell> yes
[01:08] <coreymon77> dont you have to provide the source for free
[01:08] <coreymon77> ?
[01:08] <Riddell> no
[01:08] <coreymon77> isnt that the whole point of the gpl?
[01:09] <Riddell> no point in bankrupting the distributors
[01:09] <Riddell> you can't make a profit from it under 3b
[01:09] <coreymon77> oh
[01:09] <coreymon77> anyways
[01:09] <coreymon77> you should also add the link to feistu source cds to that answer
[01:10] <coreymon77> it only lists dapper and edgy links at the moment
[01:10] <Riddell> fixed
[01:11] <coreymon77> it is?
[01:11] <coreymon77> i dont see it
[01:11] <coreymon77> it still only shows dapper and edgy
[01:11] <stdin> coreymon77: "at cost" means "at the cost of sending the source" ie: through the mail
[01:11] <coreymon77> stdin: oh
[01:13] <Riddell> hmm, guess it's behind a proxy, it should update soon
[01:46] <Riddell> mhb: I'm getting kdebase failing to compile, did you get that when testing your patch?
[01:46] <Riddell> it doesn't seem to be related to your patch
[02:21] <coreymon77> Riddell: how long does that stuff take to update?
[02:21] <coreymon77> Riddell: it still hasnt changed
[02:23] <Riddell> coreymon77: it's changed for me
[02:24] <coreymon77> Riddell: i dont see anything, under the can i sell it question, it still only lists dapper an edgy links
[02:25] <nixternal> all you need to do is make sure the file you are trying to read with an fstream >> is in the correct directory :)
[02:26] <nixternal> clear your cache and then look
[02:27] <nixternal> it looks good to me :)
[02:27] <nixternal> what is the status of the new site btw? I am available to lend a hand like I said before..but haven't heard much about it
[02:28] <Riddell> no change that I know of
[02:28] <Riddell> mhb or kwwii might know more
[02:33] <nixternal> roger that
[02:35] <Riddell> it's not a bzr thing
[03:09] <ryanakca> thanks mhb, gnomefreak, coreymon77 :)
[03:09] <ryanakca> hehe, lucky me, software freedom day on my birthday :D
[10:38] <mhb> Riddell: yes
[10:38] <mhb> Riddell: but in a totally different place
[10:38] <mhb> Riddell: AFAIK, there was a function completely defined in a .h file which kind of messed things up
[10:39] <mhb> Riddell: moving it to the .cpp file fixed the problem for me
[10:39] <mhb> Riddell: not sure if that is what you are getting
[04:31] <ryanakca> mhb: ping, the czech keyboard, how do you guys do the accents? altgr-something letter?
[04:31] <ryanakca> (currently... there is no french keyboard remotely simillar to the english one
[04:40] <mhb> ryanakca: we have the accents instead of the numbers
[04:40] <mhb> ryanakca: accented characters, that is
[04:40] <mhb> ryanakca: when you shift+number, you get the number
[04:40] <ryanakca> Ah, nevermind then :)
[04:42] <mhb> ryanakca: we have just two
[04:42] <ryanakca> really?
[04:42] <ryanakca> wow
[04:42] <mhb>  and
[04:44] <ryanakca> hmm... last one didn't draw... I guess it's the trema/two points above the O? or is in an inverted caret? *goes to look for czech text on some labels*
[04:44] <mhb> ryanakca: the first one is like this:  and the other one like this:
[04:45] <mhb> what do you need that for?
[04:47] <mhb> ah, right.
[04:49] <ryanakca> Oh, I see it now (irssi didn't display the last one in a VT)... cool :)
[04:50] <marseillai> a question please : in kde4 package  wich on contain dolphin? i would like to apply a patch tab to it
[04:51] <mhb> marseillai: isn't it in kdebase?
[04:51] <marseillai> mhb: perhaps i'm downloading it
[04:51] <marseillai> but i was looking for a confirmation
[04:51] <marseillai> .... i'll have to build all kdebase :(
[04:51] <ryanakca> kde4base
[04:52] <ryanakca> first one on http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?searchmode=filelist&word=kde4base&version=gutsy&arch=i386
[04:52] <marseillai> thanks ryanakca
[04:52] <marseillai> :(
[04:52] <ryanakca> marseillai: upload it to your PPA :) takes half the time to build it there compared to here, even with the wait for it to get built
[04:53] <marseillai> mmmmmmm good idea
[04:53] <Hobbsee> but do check that teh patches, etc, apply frist
[04:54] <marseillai> ryanakca: could you tell me how to use ppa? i've heard about it but during the last four month i was a little afk (girl friend living with me)
[04:54] <marseillai> Hobbsee: of course! :)
[04:55] <ryanakca> Umm... part of the launchpad beta testers team?
[04:55] <Hobbsee> i didnt think you had to be part of the beta team now
[04:55] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: wee :)
[04:56] <ryanakca> marseillai: ok, go to your launchpad page, on the left under karma/edit homepage/etc, theres something about ppa (bottom of the collumn)
[04:56] <marseillai> see it will read
[05:02] <marseillai> yeah we still need to be launchpad-beta-tester
[05:10] <Riddell> mhb: I tried your konsole patch but didn't see much difference when using gdebi
[05:11] <Riddell> mhb: I'll upload it but not close the bug until someone confirms it helps
[05:11] <Riddell> mhb: and of course it needs to be backported to feisty for the upgrader
[05:11] <ryanakca> Hobbsee: hmm. doesn't kubuntu members have a ppa? and would marseillai be able to use it?
[05:11] <Riddell> ryanakca: we have a ppa
[05:11] <Riddell> I suspect only launchpad beta users can use it
[05:11] <Riddell> although he should be able to become a beta user easily enough
[05:12] <Hobbsee> ryanakca: i would think so - worht trying
[05:12] <marseillai> Riddell: i'm building a kde4 dolphin with tab support
[05:12] <Riddell> tab?
[05:12] <marseillai> yes
[05:13] <marseillai> for navigation
[05:13] <Riddell> a diretory view for each tab?
[05:13] <marseillai> yes
[05:13] <Riddell> hmm, send us a screenshot when you have it :)
[05:13] <marseillai> if no tab is open there is no difference beetween this one and normal dolphin
[05:13] <ryanakca> Hmm... anybody feel like testing a possible X.Org+KDE bug?
[05:14] <marseillai> when two tab are open there is only a "close tab" button
[05:14] <ryanakca> add 'intl' to XkbVariants under the keyboard section in xorg.conf, restart X, and try going ctrl-alt-F[1-7]  ?
[05:15] <ryanakca> Also, KMenu doesn't go down/hide after you open it & pick a menu item
[05:16] <ryanakca> s/XkbVariants/XkbVariant
[05:19] <marseillai> Riddell: http://kneuse.110mb.com/images/test.html
[05:19] <marseillai> it's an old version
[05:20] <marseillai> now when only one tab is open when don't see anything
[05:20] <Riddell> marseillai: how do you add a tab?
[05:20] <Riddell> marseillai: is this in trunk?
[05:20] <marseillai> kde4base will take time for me
[05:20] <marseillai> no not in trunk
[05:21] <marseillai> and there is a open/close tab button
[05:44] <mhb> Riddell: you mean gdebi is still crashing for you
[05:44] <mhb> ?
[05:44] <mhb> with the qgvector.cpp error?
[05:54] <Riddell> mhb: no, but it's using the same amount of memory
[05:54] <Riddell> mhb: but I'm not at home now, I can't test it properly
[05:56] <mhb> Riddell: is it using an insane amount?
[05:56] <mhb> Riddell: that may be a separate bug - what I tried is to make it work without the "qgvector.cpp" error, which it does on my old machine...
[05:57] <Riddell> no, not an insane amount
[05:57] <Riddell> I'll test it more when I've got time (which might not be for a few days)
[05:57] <Riddell> I've uploaded for now
[05:59] <mhb> Riddell: keep in mind that my diff is not a proper patch, just a difference between 3.5.5 and 3.5.7 ... there must have been a reason why the code changed, and I hope we have not reopened another konsole bug
[06:19] <vprints> mhb, does kde's restricted manager use translation strings from restricted-manager package ?
[07:31] <mhb> vprints: yes
[07:31] <mhb> vprints: but I am not sure if the translation file is in the GNOME or KDE translation pack
[07:31] <mhb> vprints: or in some common package
[07:32] <vprints> there seems to be only one package for it
[07:32] <vprints> but since there in no earch in LP, i can't be sure
[07:35] <mhb> vprints: yes, there is only one translation template in LP
[07:35] <mhb> vprints: that is correct
[07:35] <vprints> good, thankyou
[07:35] <mhb> vprints: the problem is, if the .mo file will be shipped in language-pack-gnome
[07:35] <mhb> vprints: then KDE folks won't have the app translated unless they download the GNOME translations too
[07:35] <mhb> vprints: someone has to ask mvo (preferably via #ubuntu-devel) if he can fix that
[07:36] <mhb> vprints: could you perhaps do that? Ask him if he can move the .mo file into the language pack common to both KDE and GNOME?
[07:36] <mhb> thanks
[07:36] <vprints> mhb, sure, thanks
[07:36] <mhb> vprints: I would ask him myself, but my internet time will be limited next week
[07:37] <mhb> vprints: and it's Sunday today, so little chance of catching him
[07:41] <vprints> Noted that down, will do
[10:03] <marseillai> Riddell: ? i have a debdiff of kde4base to add tab support to dolphin it's not finish yet (drag and drop feature between tad is missing)
[10:04] <marseillai> could i send it to you because i can't build kde4base on this computer! so perhaps you could send it to PPA ...
[10:06] <Riddell> marseillai: is there a reason why the code isn't in trunk yet?
[10:06] <mhb> Riddell: they don't want it there, haven't you seen the flamewars?
[10:07] <marseillai> Riddell: yes the dolphin's dev don't want this feature! they are saying tab is a power user feature and split view is not
[10:07] <mhb> marseillai: well, I think you shouldn't try to bypass the original developers
[10:08] <marseillai> mhb: in fact i would like to test this patch and to have a user point of view
[10:09] <marseillai> mhb: Riddell http://kneuse.110mb.com/images/test.html
[10:12] <Riddell> I suspect I agree with them
[10:12] <mhb> I think it's great to have a PPA package of Dolphin with tabs
[10:13] <mhb> so people who like tabs can have them
[10:13] <mhb> but we shouldn't really bypass upstream in this case
[10:14] <marseillai> i agree with mhb
[10:15] <marseillai> so anyway here is my debdiff : ftp://marseillai.homelinux.org/dolphintab.debdiff
[10:18] <mhb> marseillai: you can do the PPA by yourself
[10:18] <marseillai> mhb: done but i need to be launchpad beta tester
[10:18] <marseillai> and i've not been accept yet
[10:18] <Riddell> ask mrevell tomorrow
[10:48] <Riddell> Breuil Cyril about?
[10:49] <Riddell> ah, it's marseillai :)
[10:49] <marseillai> :)
[10:49] <marseillai> yes
[10:49] <marseillai> it's me
[10:49] <marseillai> why that ?
[10:49] <Riddell> just saw your PPA reject notice
[10:50] <marseillai> why did you receive it ?
[10:51] <Riddell> I'm the Maintainer: I guess
[10:51] <marseillai> oki


[04:58] <mup> PR pc-gadget#84 opened: Update partition layouts for 22-xinyi-pc-classic <Created by medicalwei> <https://github.com/snapcore/pc-gadget/pull/84>
[07:52] <mup> PR snapd#12644 closed: interfaces: allow docker-support access to apparmor.d/abi/ <cherry-picked> <Created by xnox> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12644>
[12:23] <mup> PR snapd#12650 opened: testutil: add checker for nil typed and valued vars <Skip spread> <Created by MiguelPires> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12650>
[13:28] <mup> PR snapd#12649 closed: tests: update the tests to start using the new store-state tool <Test Robustness> <Run nested> <Run Nested -auto-> <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12649>
[13:54] <mup> PR pc-gadget#85 opened: Fix compatibility with old and new shim naming <Created by jawn-smith> <https://github.com/snapcore/pc-gadget/pull/85>
[13:59] <mup> PR pc-gadget#85 closed: Fix compatibility with old and new shim naming <Created by jawn-smith> <Merged by sil2100> <https://github.com/snapcore/pc-gadget/pull/85>
[14:44] <mup> PR pc-gadget#86 opened: gadget.yaml: allow optional "dhc-dev-mode" kernel commandline <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/pc-gadget/pull/86>
[17:48] <mup> PR snapcraft#4074 closed: commands: various semantic cleanups and corrections, no functional ch… <Created by rpjday> <Merged by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4074>
[21:25] <mwhudson> i always forget the passphrase for the keys i create to use with snap sign
[21:26] <mwhudson> is there some way i can use the same gpg as i use for everything else?
[21:27] <mwhudson> ah https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/can-i-use-my-existing-key-for-my-models/428/6 from 6 years ago...
[21:40] <mup> PR snapd#12651 opened: interfaces/builtin: allow mount-control functionfs specific options <Needs Samuele review> <Needs security review> <Created by ernestl> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12651>


[11:48] <thafreak> http://www.solid-run.com/products/cubox
[11:48] <thafreak> pretty slick
[11:49] <thafreak> has esata and gigabit ethernet w/ToE
[15:29] <Cheri703> thafreak: would that have enough ram for some of the applications it's talking about?
[15:36] <canthus13> 1 GB would be plenty for a media server or some NAS software.
[15:40] <Cheri703> hmm...ok
[15:41] <Cheri703> I guess I'm at a point of "why the heck is my computer hanging sometimes?" and wondering if it has to do with ram, so...I'm skeptical of low RAM atm
[15:41] <canthus13> Most automation software requires very little in the way of memory or CPU... it'd also make a decent print server.
[15:41] <canthus13> Hmm.. I'd keep htop running in a terminal and see what's going on.
[15:41] <Cheri703> I don't think I have stuff that is *too* intensive running
[15:42] <Cheri703> sometimes it hangs when I have a vm going, which, somewhat understandable, but I have 6gb RAM, quad core 2.4ghz, and the vm is running on like 2-3 depending on the day (I change it), and I'm running like chromium and quassel...and it'll hiccup opening a pdf or something
[15:43] <canthus13> Chromium eats ram like mad.
[15:43] <Cheri703> would switching to 64 bit help at all?
[15:43] <Cheri703> better than FF in my experience
[15:43] <Cheri703> Every so often I close chromium completely
[15:43] <canthus13> Meh. I don't know about that. lately, chromium has been using 3GB after a couple of days.
[15:44] <Cheri703> I shut down my computer every night now that it's in my bedroom...too many LEDs!
[15:44] <canthus13> Heh.
[15:44] <canthus13> It may not be RAM, either.  htop gives you your system load totals.. I'd check the load when it hangs.
[15:45] <Cheri703> I may check it out
[15:45] <Cheri703> OMG GUISE, YOU GUISE, MY HUSBAND IS *PUTTING AWAY DISHES* !!!!!!1!!!!!!
[15:46] <Cheri703> (it's like a few cups and a mixing bowl, but STILL!)


[00:09] <ogasawara> mrooney: I posted a note to the bug report if you can take a look.  I'll try to investigate that "noise floor calibration timeout" that you're seeing a little more.
[01:23] <mroone1> ogasawara: thanks, I can try that PPA. I also added to the description the common dmesg errors to make it easier
[02:24] <mrooney> Oh, it appears upgrading my Intrepid install to linux 27-4 removed my Hardy menu.lst entries, I am not quite sure how to boot into it now.
[02:27] <RAOF> mrooney: (a) that sounds like a bug, unless you had your menu.lst set up in such a way that it was inevitable, and (b) you can edit the grub during boot - press esc to bring up the menu, then edit the commandline to point to your Hardy root.
[02:29] <mrooney> RAOF: I edited it manually to remove old Hardy kernel entries and moved the Windows entry around
[02:29] <mrooney> I don't know if that would make it un-mergeable
[02:30] <mrooney> ogasawara: still around?
[02:31] <mrooney> I was going to install Tim's madwifi PPA but I don't see an Intrepid entry, shall I just change Hardy to Intrepid and hope it works?
[02:33] <RAOF> mrooney: As long as the hardy kernel entries were outside the "automagic kernel list" section, they should have been safe.
[02:51] <mrooney> RAOF: thanks for the tip, I copied the relevant lines from my Hardy's menu.lst over to Intrepid's and it boots fine, phew!
[04:59] <jdong> sigh, where's the "give negative karma" button?
[05:07] <RAOF> jdong: ? :)
[05:08] <jdong> RAOF: the ffmpeg AMR bug
[05:08] <jdong> bug 93849
[05:09] <jdong> both reinhard and I tried being nice. particularly frustrating because upstream seems close to a fix and the guy keeps on attaching surveys and asking how to do silly things with launchpad buttons on the side and that ends up in my inbox.
[05:09] <maco> jdong: id like one too for the reporter of bug 271891
[05:10] <jdong> maco: that's a joke, right?
[05:12] <RAOF> Hm.  That questionaire looks unhelpful.
[05:13] <jdong> RAOF: looks like the corporate version of "Nice drawing! Now I'm gonna hang it up RIGHT HERE on the fridge where EVERYONE can see it...."
[05:14] <maco> jdong: unfortunately, no, i don't think it's a joke.  just someone who doesn't know 5th grade math trying to correct a calculator.
[05:14] <jdong> maco: I'm pretty sure his correction breaks number theory :)
[05:14] <maco> jdong: yeah, me too
[05:14] <maco> i told him to ask a math teacher
[05:16] <jdong> poor kid.
[05:16] <jdong> I don't know of any calculator that interpolates things the way he expects.
[05:17] <jdong> not even the fancy user-friendly CASes like the new TI's
[05:19] <sbeattie> jdong: kcalc
[05:20] <jdong> sbeattie: really?
[05:21] <sbeattie> version 2.0.6 in hardy just did it for me, returned 950 after I entered 1000 - 5%
[05:22] <jdong> sbeattie: confirmed
[05:23] <jdong> sbeattie: but it's quirky in other ways
[05:23] <jdong> like 20%/20% just gave me 100
[05:23]  * jdong RTFMs
[05:24] <jdong> wow that's honestly, even more confusing
[05:24] <jdong> (1) If the final operator is + or - the second argument is interpreted as percentage of the first operand.
[05:24] <jdong> (2) If the final operator is * divide the result of the multiplication by 100.
[05:24] <jdong> (3) If the final operator is / give the left operand as a percentage of the right operand.
[05:24] <jdong> (4) In all other cases the % key gives identical results to the = key.
[05:24] <jdong> :-/
[05:25] <lifeless> crack!
[05:26] <jdong> yeah this sounds too smart for its own good....
[05:26] <jdong> like the python "a""b" => "ab" behavior
[05:29] <lifeless> jdong: C does that too
[05:29] <pwnguin> %'s or crazy c concatenation?
[05:30] <pwnguin> it might be a good idea if you have macros
[05:31] <jdong> lifeless: oh it does?
[05:32] <lifeless> jdong: I'm pretty sure :) "string1" "string2" is == "string1string2"
[05:32] <jdong> you're right
[05:32] <lifeless> jdong: you can see it with macros to get source lines and stuff
[05:32] <jdong> didn't know that
[05:33] <jdong> maybe that's the use for it
[05:33] <jdong> I just found it annoying for various typos
[05:33] <jdong> particularly involving constructing lists of lists and omitting a comma :)
[05:33] <maco> jdong: file a bug "KCalc breaks number theory"
[05:33] <pwnguin> isn't there already a bug?
[05:33] <maco> is it titled that?!
[05:34] <jdong> maco: lol wait for kcalc-kde4 to reinterpret what all the other operators mean too depending on how close it was to the / button.
[05:34] <pwnguin> well you brought up the bug maco, surely you can retitle it ;)
[05:34] <maco> pwnguin: the bug i brought up was his brain breaking number theory ;)
[05:35] <maco> can we have a dummy package called "user" against which to file bugs that are user error?
[05:35] <maco> it could be fun to watch the number of bugs filed against the user
[05:36] <pwnguin> there's plenty of serious work to be done ;)
[05:36] <jdong> grumble wouter stomp bugs....
[05:36] <jdong> bug 266920
[05:37] <jdong> the minimal view of transmission is informative than the first GNOME 2.14 print dialogs with one button and 1 option.
[05:37] <jdong> less*
[05:37] <pwnguin> i think tomorrow, i'll do some serious work
[05:38] <pwnguin> i'll fix the gnome system monitor applet to show I/O in the visible spectrum
[05:38] <nellery> Bug 500000 in debian is going to be reported tomorrow :D
[05:39] <pwnguin> nellery: when was the BTS started?
[05:41] <nellery> pwnguin, well the copyright at the bottom of the page has a 1994
[05:41] <pwnguin> i think debian started in 94
[05:42] <nellery> Well Ubuntu is past halfway there in 3 years?
[05:43] <pwnguin> are bugs in lp per project?
[05:44] <nellery> ah, got that mixed up
[05:44] <nellery> 216897 every reported
[05:45] <pwnguin> we should stop writing so many bugs!
[05:46] <maco> only 10% of those are still open at least...
[05:47] <maco> pwnguin: or so many duplicates
[05:48] <pwnguin> well, duplicates are hard
[05:48] <pwnguin> there's a culture of closing dupes
[05:48] <pwnguin> INVALID. THANKS FOR PLAYING
[05:50] <maco> i mean if less dups were reported
[05:50] <maco> the "are you sure you're not reporting one of these 10 bugs" thing is terrible at guessing
[05:50] <pwnguin> i agree it's not superb
[05:51] <pwnguin> ive often thought some sort of data mining challenge was in order, but I suppose there are priorities
[05:51] <maco> though i wouldn't call mozilla's "here are the 100 most frequently reported bugs that have nothing to do with your keywords" method any better
[05:51] <pwnguin> datamining and software engineering. if you can't find a few interested grad students and professors to give it a shot
[05:52] <pwnguin> the world is doomed
[05:53] <maco> haha
[05:53] <maco> hrm...i'm still a year away from a senior design project though
[05:54] <maco> and for jaunty, i'm thinking about usability issues...i hate the preferences menu. i think i'd rather stare at kmail's settings than use that menu in its default state
[05:55] <maco> i minimalize the menu then have control center enabled, but the control center is awfully cluttered as well
[05:55] <maco> but then there's ccsm....definitely more cluttered than the gnome control center
[05:56] <maco> *sigh* there's got to be something that can be done about those UIs
[05:56] <_Zeus_> i like ccsm
[06:00] <maco> _Zeus_: you must admit its UI needs a makeover
[06:01] <Burgundavia> maco: which UI?
[06:01] <wgrant> I don't think ccsm can be fixed.
[06:01] <wgrant> It just has too much to do.
[06:02] <_Zeus_> yeah
[06:02] <_Zeus_> they have thousands of settings
[06:03] <wgrant> It is terrible now, yes, but it'd be difficult to make it much better.
[06:04] <maco> Burgundavia: ccsm's
[06:04] <maco> wgrant: there was one suggestion i had for how they handle doing bindings...lets see if i can find/upload those mockups
[06:04] <Burgundavia> ah, yes
[06:04] <Burgundavia> a typical "power user" interface, which utterly fails for everybody, including power users
[06:05] <maco> ok so this was a bug i saw
[06:05] <maco> http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/471/screenshot1nx3.png
[06:05] <maco> note the ordering of the elements
[06:06] <maco> screen, keyboard, mouse....screen, mouse, keyboard....screen, mouse, keyboard
[06:06] <maco> hrm, that first one doesn't match
[06:07] <maco> and this was my suggestion for tidying up that sort of interface: http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5648/suggestioner1.png
[06:07] <maco> its still not great, but it avoids repeating the same thing til your eyes cross
[06:07] <maco> i dont think it's necessary to have 2 ways to edit the mappings, either
[06:07] <wgrant> What about a matrix with actions as rows and screen,mouse,keyboard as columns?
[06:08] <maco> that'd work too
[06:08] <_Zeus_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/v86d/+bug/273833/
[06:08] <_Zeus_> what should i do?
[06:09] <_Zeus_> maco: i like that better
[06:09] <_Zeus_> i was always confused by the way they did it
[06:11] <maco> if there was a way to do colored filters in X without Compiz, that'd be nice for accessibility testing as well.  then we could test for different types of colorblindness
[06:12] <wgrant> maco: Why not just use Compiz?
[06:13] <maco> wgrant: well the other reason is that the overlays themselves can be accessibility features for dyslexic people.  and compiz isn't available to everyone.
[06:14] <_Zeus_> why?
[06:14] <maco> _Zeus_: why what?
[06:14] <maco> why isn't compiz available to everyone?
[06:14] <_Zeus_> yes
[06:14] <maco> it requires certain hardware
[06:14] <_Zeus_> i thought you could run some plugins regardless?
[06:15] <maco> um, not that i'm aware of, but the filters definitely require compositing
[06:15] <_Zeus_> ah
[06:15] <maco> either that, or you use gtkfb
[06:15] <maco> which would be not-X
[06:19] <maco> creating some Compiz filters for use with that plugin to emulate different forms of colorblindness is likely a worthwhile endeavor in terms of testing for that anyway
[06:19] <maco> no idea how to create compiz color filters though
[06:20] <maco> plus the part where i dont use compiz...
[06:20] <wgrant> I thought they already existed.
[06:20]  * wgrant looks.
[06:20] <maco> there are a few included
[06:20] <maco> but i dont think they're meant to emulate types of colorblindness
[06:21] <wgrant> I see two with names rather like varieties of colourblindness.
[06:22] <maco> oo really?
[06:22] <maco> in hardy or intrepid?
[06:22] <maco> i just see sepia, negative, green, blue, and greyscale
[06:22] <maco> but i'm still on hardy
[06:24] <wgrant> Intrepid, of course.
[06:24] <wgrant> Unfortunately...
[06:24] <wgrant> X doesn't like being colourblind.
[06:24] <wgrant> It sort of freezes up and jumps off a cliff.
[06:26] <maco> lovely
[06:31] <_Zeus_> whoa, new firefox=weird license agreement!
[06:31] <wgrant> It's not particularly weird, is it?
[06:31] <wgrant> I hope I won't have to go and file another bug...
[06:32] <_Zeus_> no
[06:32] <maco> wgrant: it shows a little bar at the top saying something about firefox being free and open source software
[06:32] <_Zeus_> just one of those password-remember-type dropdowns that says read the license
[06:32] <maco> and has a little button for more info about your rights
[06:33] <wgrant> maco: Right, I complained about that wording.
[06:33] <maco> then it lists the tenants of free software
[06:33] <maco> and says it's MPL-licensed
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[08:23] <thekorn> morgen dholbach
[08:24] <dholbach> hi thekorn
[10:22] <Konstigt> hello guys. what is needed to include bug #262191 on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?
[13:59] <davmor2> I have an issue at the moment with both hardy and intrepid.  If I run both firefox and pidgin together My system eventually runs out of memory.  There are some valgrind logs here http://www.davmor2.co.uk/firef.log http://www.davmor2.co.uk/firef-reach.log http://www.davmor2.co.uk/pidgin.log http://www.davmor2.co.uk/pidgin-reach.log the -reach logs are ones where I enabled --show-reachable=yes at seb128 request.
[14:33] <afflux> morning
[14:33] <jjesse_> morning afflux
[14:33] <greg-g> davmor2: have you reported a bug?
[14:34] <greg-g> davmor2: if you have, please attach those logs.  If you haven't, please do so and attach those logs.
[14:40] <davmor2> greg-g: yes I have and I will :)
[14:44] <greg-g> davmor2: good deal :)  I know there have been issues with pidgin before like that
[14:44] <davmor2> greg-g: bug 273587
[15:17] <salty-horse> hi. can anyone launch gnome-appearance-properties successfully?
[15:19] <ara> salty-horse: intrepid?
[15:19] <salty-horse> yes
[15:20] <ara> salty-horse: yes, i can
[15:21] <salty-horse> ara, latest version?
[15:21] <davmor2> ara: have you just done an update?
[15:21] <davmor2> salty-horse: I can't now
[15:21] <ara> salty-horse, davmor2: i am doing it now
[15:21] <salty-horse> davmor2, it crashes?
[15:22] <davmor2> yeap
[15:22] <salty-horse> I'll file a bug
[15:22] <ara> salty-horse: I just updated to latest of gnome-control-center and i can run it properly
[15:23] <davmor2> salty-horse: already known mvo and seb128 are working on it :)
[15:23] <salty-horse> ok :)
[15:25] <salty-horse> tseliot, here?
[15:25] <tseliot> salty-horse: yes
[15:25] <salty-horse> after upgrading to intrepid, I am unable to purge the defunct nvidia-glx packages -- what should I do?
[15:26] <salty-horse> that's glx-new and glx-legacy
[15:26] <salty-horse> error:
[15:26] <salty-horse> Purging configuration files for nvidia-glx-legacy ...
[15:26] <salty-horse> dpkg-divert: mismatch on package
[15:26] <salty-horse>   when removing `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-legacy'
[15:26] <salty-horse>   found `diversion of /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 to /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa by nvidia-glx-96'
[15:26] <salty-horse> dpkg: error processing nvidia-glx-legacy (--purge):
[15:26] <salty-horse>  subprocess post-removal script returned error exit status 2
[15:27] <salty-horse> (sorry for spam)
[15:27] <tseliot> salty-horse: did you install the driver with the NVIDIA installer too?
[15:27] <salty-horse> nope, but I have a bit of a problem with the restricted drivers manager ATM
[15:27] <salty-horse> I'm getting this error as well (pastebin)
[15:28] <salty-horse> http://pastebin.com/m67f88ff0
[15:29] <Hew> Someone has questioned me setting the importance of bug 104525 to wishlist. I still think this is the correct setting. Could someone else provide their thoughts?
[15:30] <tseliot> salty-horse: the fact that the build fail is normal: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/251107
[15:31] <tseliot> i.e. a bug which depends on NVIDIA
[15:31] <salty-horse> yeah, I know that problem
[15:31] <salty-horse> (had no idea it's related to the build)
[15:31] <tseliot> as regards that diversion, the preinst of the 96 package should have removed it
[15:32] <salty-horse> I'll try reinstalling the 96 package
[15:32] <tseliot> dpkg-divert --remove --rename --package nvidia-glx-96 --divert /usr/lib/nvidia/libGL.so.1.xlibmesa /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
[15:32] <tseliot> try this command ^^
[15:32] <tseliot> with sudo
[15:32] <salty-horse> Is it something that the restricted drivers manager supposed to do?
[15:33] <tseliot> no, it's something that the .preinst of nvidia-glx-96 was supposed to do
[15:33] <tseliot> but it only added its own diversion instead of removing the old one first
[15:33] <tseliot> which is weird
[15:34] <tseliot> salty-horse: the build fails because I haven't patched the driver to get it to work with kernel 2.6.27
[15:35] <salty-horse> does the nvidia license allow you to patch it?
[15:35] <tseliot> as it would have been a waste of time since the module is not compatible with the new Xorg ABI
[15:35] <tseliot> yes, that's not the closed part
[15:36] <salty-horse> error of dpkg-divert: http://pastebin.com/m47e33e09
[15:36] <tseliot> ok
[15:36] <tseliot> sudo rm /usr/lib/libGL.so.1
[15:37] <tseliot> and try the previous command again
[15:39] <salty-horse> just a sec. reinstallation of nvidia-glx-96 printed no errors
[15:40] <salty-horse> done
[15:41] <salty-horse> I still can't purge the packages. getting the same errors.
[15:42] <greg-g> of COURSE KEXP is playing Nirvana at this time of day (7:40am their time)
[15:42] <greg-g> erm, wrong window, sorry
[15:47] <tseliot> salty-horse: can you put the output of this command in pastebin? dpkg-divert --list nvidia*
[15:48] <salty-horse> sec
[15:50] <salty-horse> http://pastebin.com/m21232229
[15:50] <salty-horse> and this is the purging error again: http://pastebin.com/m67f7e1f4
[15:54] <tseliot> salty-horse: aah, there's something wrong in the old packages then
[15:56] <tseliot> salty-horse: try this (which is safe now since all the diversions of the old package were removed): sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/nvidia/nvidia-glx-legacy*
[15:56] <tseliot> sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/info/nvidia-glx-legacy*
[15:56] <tseliot> only the 2nd command
[15:56] <tseliot> then try to remove the package again
[15:56] <salty-horse> yes, noticed :)
[15:58] <salty-horse> and -new* as well, right?
[15:59] <tseliot> salty-horse: yes, it won't hurt
[16:00] <salty-horse> ok, packages removed
[16:00] <salty-horse> is this a bug?
[16:01] <tseliot> I wouldn't know. I look into it
[16:01] <salty-horse> thanks
[16:01] <tseliot> thanks for reporting
[16:02] <salty-horse> I don't think it does any damage, but it's nice to keep the system clean after an upgrade
[16:02] <tseliot> yes, of course
[16:38] <maco> james_w: hey, i have a question about those policykit bugs
[16:38] <james_w> hey maco
[16:38] <james_w> how are you?
[16:46] <maco> james_w: alright, you
[16:46] <maco> ?
[16:46] <james_w> good thanks
[16:47] <maco> james_w: so i marked the bug i was on as a dup of the one you pointed to, but i just noticed the request for the policykit.conf, and it contains the same thing Luis said he put in to fix it
[16:48] <maco> james_w: though he did say he reinstalled before putting that in the policykit.conf, so i don't know if that makes a difference
 or similar?
[16:57] <maco> <define_admin_auth group="admin"/>
[16:57] <maco> yeah
[16:58] <james_w> that is supposed to be there, and should have been in the other report, and shouldn't matter for root as root isn't in the admin group
[16:58] <maco> but the part above that too
[16:59] <james_w> maco: if you "sudo users-admin" do you get the warning about not being able to look up session information for process blah blah
[16:59] <maco> james_w: yes
[16:59] <james_w> there should be <match user="root"><result>yes</result></match> or something above
[16:59] <maco> yes
[17:00] <james_w> maco: that's weird as you have $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE defined, and the error is that it can't find that
[17:01] <maco> should i do a sudo -s and then echo it?
[17:01] <maco> or sudo -i?
[17:01] <maco> i guess -i
[17:01] <maco> after sudo -i, it's not defined
[17:03] <maco> wow tiling window managers make it really obvious when devs haven't remembered to put in scrollbars for when windows are shrunken
[17:04] <james_w> maco: I understand the problem now, thanks
[17:04] <james_w> maco: sudo doesn't let $XDG_SESSION_COOKIE in to the environment of the child process, and so it can't use consolekit
[17:04] <maco> gotcha
[17:05] <james_w> thanks for the help
[17:05] <maco> np
[17:06] <james_w> so they are all actually duplicates of bug 210897
[17:10] <maco> james_w: wow, that's got a very descriptive title :P
[17:55] <kees> sbeattie: qa-regression-testing> your php-lp52866 testcase -- does that run on non-dapper too?
[17:55] <sbeattie> kees: yes, tested on hardy as well.
[17:58] <sbeattie> kees: the reason for the for-loop in the testcase is to try to eliminate differences in whitespace when comparing the emitted xml.
[17:59] <sbeattie> (probably should have commented that)
[17:59] <kees> sbeattie: I've queued it (though I have no idea what that means in LP)
[18:02] <sbeattie> kees: ideally, rather than doing a simple strcmp(), the emitted xml would have been parsed out and the resultant structure compared, but my attempts to do so were met with massive FAIL.
[18:08] <kees> sbeattie: heh
[21:27] <Arby> how does one unduplicate a bug?
[21:28] <Arby> bug 156044 and bug 156045 don't look like dupes to me
[21:28] <danbhfive> I think you duplicate it back to nothing
[21:28] <_Zeus_> was i right in invalidating this? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ekiga/+bug/274085
[21:29] <Arby> danbhfive: that would be correct thanks
[21:29] <murdok> Arby: to unduplicate click mark as duplicate and then remove the bug number
[21:30] <Arby> thanks
[21:30] <murdok> you are welcome, I learnt it yesterday
[21:30] <murdok> :p
[21:30] <murdok> P
[21:35] <bdmurray> _Zeus_: why do you think it should be Invalid?
[21:36] <_Zeus_> bdmurray: do you think it shouldn't?  I think it should, because it's not supposed to show up until 8.04 anyway
[21:37] <bdmurray> _Zeus_: Yes, I think it shouldn't.  9.04, which I'm guessing is what you meant, will be tracked in LP too so the bug would get resolved later.  There is no need to invalidate it.
[21:38] <_Zeus_> bdmurray: u meant 8.10
[21:38] <_Zeus_> and it will show up in it, because it's part of GNOME 2.24
[21:38] <_Zeus_> at least from what i've heard
[21:38] <_Zeus_> *i meant
[21:39] <bdmurray> Regardless, the fact that it may or may not automatically show up does not make the bug Invalid.
[21:40] <_Zeus_> ok
[21:40] <_Zeus_> i confirmed it
[21:40] <bdmurray> Additionally, since 8.10 is past feature freeze its unlikely that a new release of Ekiga would make it in.
[21:41] <_Zeus_> i know the new version of gnome will make it in, right?
[21:44] <bdmurray> yes, I believe so
[21:45] <_Zeus_> http://library.gnome.org/misc/release-notes/2.24/
[21:47] <_Zeus_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/274144
[21:47] <_Zeus_> why is this status high?
[21:47] <_Zeus_> i don't even think that's a bug
[21:48] <Stemp> I have a problem with bug 260918 it is a need-packaging, and it's waiting for Debian. Is there's a way to cut this dependency ?
[21:49] <bdmurray> Do you know who either of the people in that bug report are _Zeus_?
[21:49] <_Zeus_> no idea
[21:49] <bdmurray> _Zeus_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResponsibilities might be helpful
[21:50] <_Zeus_> crap
[21:50] <_Zeus_> well, it's never been there before
[21:51] <danbhfive> Stemp: I think its because debian is working on it
[21:51] <_Zeus_> i never thought that was a bug
[21:52] <Stemp> I understand that danbhfive, but in fact we don't have time to wait. If libv4l is not included, that mean : no webcam applications for gspca users
[21:55] <danbhfive> Stemp: well AFAIK, it being dependent on the debian bug doesnt mean that someone else CANT do it.  But that would be duplicating work.  So, you just have to find someone with the knowhow and time to do it.  The dependency just means that someone decided to let the debian devs take care of it...
[22:00] <Stemp> So I guess It's not a bug problem. We need to report bug on every webcam apps to include libv4l handling, and libv4l is perhaps not going to be intrepid ^^
[22:01] <danbhfive> Stemp: am I correct in thinking that libv4l wraps v4l into v4l2?
[22:03] <danbhfive> nvm
[22:03] <Stemp> not only danbhfive, it also convert pixelformat for v4l2
[22:31] <kees> sbeattie: can you push to get the hardy-proposed kernel into -updates?  it's been in there a while now, and I'm not sure what's blocking it.
[22:33] <Stemp> Hi all, sorry if i'm in the wrong channel. I'd like to talk about the gspcav2 driver and about the webcams apps. There is a serious problem about the packahe libv4l not in Debian (so not in Intrepid). Is it the right place to talk about it ?
[22:34] <Stemp> sorry wrong place
[22:52] <bdmurray> sbeattie: do you have a hardy live cd environment handy?
[23:11] <sbeattie> bdmurray: sorry, was grabbing fud. What do you need?
[23:11] <bdmurray> sbeattie: I'm working on checking it myself - thanks though ;)
[23:20] <hggdh> bdmurray, ping
[23:25] <bdmurray> hggdh: pong
[23:26] <nellery> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=500000
[23:27] <nellery> 500000 bugs in Debian!!
[23:27] <bdmurray> bug reports, not bugs ;)
[23:28] <greg-g> and Launchpad is over halfway there, 274182 as of right now
[23:28] <nellery> but Ubuntu is at a little under 220000
[23:34] <hggdh> bdmurray, I sent you an email with a first approach on tags for bug stati (this one specifically for 'Invalid'). Please comment
[23:41] <greg-g> oh all those bug stati ;)
[23:43] <hggdh> or statuses... but -- for me -- statuses is as bad as campuses ;-)
[23:43] <greg-g> I have been on many college campi?
[23:48] <maco> greg-g: how about campiz
[23:48] <maco> ?
[23:48] <maco> the buildings probably don't wobble though...
[23:48] <bdmurray> groan
[23:49] <maco> i like puns...
[23:58] <hggdh> maco, I propose campizes