[00:00] <wgrant> And we will indeed see that Launchpad is written using COBOL on Cogs.
[00:00] <zeth> beuno: I am not calling you a liar particularly
[00:00] <beuno> wgrant, maybe we're using those 11 months to re-write all the visual basic into python
[00:00] <jml> INTERCAL!
[00:00] <wgrant> beuno: Or vice-versa.
[00:00] <zeth> it is just that I take any software claims with a large bag of salt
[00:00] <jml> PLEASE COME FROM 15980
[00:00] <thumper> beuno: no perl -> python :)
[00:00]  * wgrant stabs jml.
[00:01] <beuno> thumper, I'm too scared of perl to even mention it
[00:01] <zeth> like how Windows Vista was going to have a database backed filesystem that would revolutionise file storage
[00:01] <wgrant> I guess somebody spent a while writing something to convert tracebacks from Language X to very convincing Zopey ones.
[00:02] <zeth> beuno: the 3 hour test suite could be on all the open source deps
[00:02] <Nafallo> wgrant: you're not on jabber. why do you hate freedom?
[00:02] <zeth> I do not believe in things I do not have evidence for
[00:02] <Peng_> jml: So bzr+http works now and is deployed?
[00:02] <wgrant> Nafallo: I am a freedom hater :(
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: the deployment is in process.
[00:03] <Nafallo> wgrant: I know. I'll just have to show you the light in Dec.
[00:03] <wgrant> That sounds dangerous.
[00:03] <Peng_> jml: One of my new branches was successfully mirrored today. What else needs to be done?
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: there's a known bug with mirroring Format7 branches over bzr+http, but that *should* be it.
[00:03]  * Nafallo packs the infrared laser to eyestab wgrant with :-)
[00:03] <jml> Peng_: I dunno :) The LOSAs are rolling out the new Launchpad _right now_
[00:04] <beuno> Peng_, what's the deal with you and bzr+http anyway?
[00:04] <Peng_> beuno: I felt like setting it up.
[00:04] <Peng_> beuno: I kept it enabled as encouragement to pester jml about fixing it. :)
[00:05] <spm> jml: nearly finished rolling out even...
[00:05] <Peng_> jml: Well, that was a Branch5 branch.
[00:05] <mwh> Peng_: you should check that the branch on launchpad is in the same format as the branch on your server
[00:05] <beuno> Peng_, that's good enough reason for me
[00:05] <Peng_> jml: What's the bug?
[00:05] <Peng_> mwh: Ooh.
[00:05] <jml> Peng_: lemme find it.
[00:05] <zeth> For me, what launchpad should have is not open-source the glue code but server side SVN export
[00:05] <mwh> Peng_: cause the bug is in this area of fun
[00:05] <Peng_> mwh: Yeah, it was upgraded.
[00:05] <wgrant> What does SVN have to do with anything, zeth?
[00:06] <Peng_> mwh: That's the shared repo branch format bug that was fixed recently?
[00:06] <mwh> Peng: well, actually, it will be branch6 whatever the source format, i think
[00:06] <Peng_> Mine was branch5.
[00:06] <zeth> wgrant, Well one thing I find difficult is that I develop with bzr, upload to launchpad, but then SVN users cannot download my code
[00:06] <Peng_> It takes work to keep Branch5 around too.
[00:06] <mwh> Peng: the bad part of this is that when launchpad comes to update the mirror it will go "oooh! the format has changed, i'll remirror the whole branch"
[00:06] <zeth> so I know using SVN instead of packaging more often is lazy
[00:07]  * wgrant wonders why anybody would voluntarily continue to use SVN.
[00:07] <Peng_> mwh: Ahh, that bug. Awesome.
[00:07] <zeth> but it is convienient
[00:07] <Peng_> So it'll make hundreds of requests every 6 hours? Perfect.
[00:07] <wgrant> How can it be more convenient?
[00:07] <zeth> well it is pre-installed in lots of systems
[00:07] <mwh> Peng: so we'll probably waste some of your bandwidth until we fix it (aka, upgrade the bzr we use to 1.7)
[00:07] <Peng_> mwh: I'm glad I didn't reenable mirroring of my other branches. :D
[00:07] <jml> which should be soon.
[00:07] <zeth> and not everyone has authorisation to install new software in every thing
[00:07] <mwh> Peng_: yeah, should be safe in maybe two days
[00:08] <zeth> wgrant, it is more convenient to give people SVN link instead of alpha/beta release when you are lazy
[00:08] <zeth> or are developing faster than you can package
[00:09] <zeth> forcing people to use bzr to get code from launchpad is bundling
[00:09] <beuno> or hg, or git, or bzr, or cvs...
[00:09] <zeth> well if forcing people to use IE to use Windows update is bad
[00:10] <zeth> then why should launchpad forcing bzr be not-bad?
[00:10] <beuno> should we force SVN instead?
[00:10] <zeth> I personally prefer to use Bzr
[00:10] <Peng_> LP automatically disabled mirroring all of my old branches because of its bugs.  It doesn't support gopher.
[00:10] <zeth> no I am saying that launchpad should offer multiple ways to get your code out
[00:10] <Peng_> (Since all of them are abandoned, it's a waste of bandwidth and CPU anyway...)
[00:10] <mwh> Peng_: we can probably do something
[00:10] <jml> Peng_: we can probably sort something out
[00:11] <Peng_> :D
[00:11] <zeth> beuno: by offering multiple outputs, you are not forcing anyone
[00:11]  * jml hi-5s mwh
[00:11] <beuno> zeth, sure, if resources where unlimited, why not
[00:11] <zeth> where > were?
[00:11] <Peng_> There should be a "Try again on all" button or something, in case your server is down for a few days or something.
[00:12] <zeth> well
[00:12] <jml> Peng_: yeah. I also want an email notification of failed mirrors.
[00:12] <zeth> I doubt it would be that hard
[00:12] <zeth> since the work has been done on the client side
[00:12] <mwh> that doesn't mail you for every branch you own when your server goes down :)
[00:12] <jml> mwh: exactly.
[00:12] <Peng_> Haha, right.
[00:12] <jml> sabdfl was specific about that :)
[00:13] <zeth> there is a plugin that allows you to use SVN using bzr, cannot launchpad adopt the same code?
[00:13] <zeth> so you can provide choice to users of the code
[00:13] <zeth> users of code hosted at launchpad
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: github is bundling git
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: and sourceforge is bundling svn
[00:14] <zeth> beuno: but the where vs were is important, because the "where" inside your company, or "where" in the open source world is different levels of potential resources
[00:14] <zeth> thumper: two wrongs do not make a right
[00:14] <zeth> sourceforge should provide more choices then
[00:14] <thumper> zeth: but three lefts are a right
[00:14] <cjwatson> bundling is bad when it accompanies a monopoly. Simply providing two pieces of software together isn't evil
[00:15] <zeth> sourceforge provide two?
[00:15] <zeth> they provide CVS and SVN?
[00:15] <slangasek> both of which are terrible :)
[00:15] <zeth> both of which have a large installed base
[00:15]  * beuno chuckles
[00:15]  * Peng_ should file a bug
[00:15] <jml> cjwatson: hello. :)
[00:16] <wgrant> Oh dear, it's the attack of the distrogods.
[00:16] <zeth> I am not saying I want to use SVN for me, I am saying that if I host code on launchpad, allowing people to check it out using SVN, which often comes in the OS, would be very helpful
[00:16] <Romario> hi there, anyone a second to help me ? i am unable to push code to a branch since a few hours
[00:16] <Peng_> Romario: Go on
[00:16] <Romario> i am getting a message: Permission denied (publickey)
[00:16] <zeth> Romario: have you tried after 00:00 ?
[00:16] <mwh> Romario: launchpad is being upgraded
[00:16] <Romario> yes
[00:16] <RAOF> Romario: Launchpad was down, and is still not fully up.
[00:17] <Romario> ah, ok
[00:17] <Peng_> ...Oh
[00:17] <Romario> maybe this is the problem
[00:17] <Romario> it isnt too urgent so i'll try tomorrow
[00:17] <zeth> Romario: http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/launchpad-offline-2200-2359-utc-17th-september-2008
[00:18] <Romario> ok, thanks guys
[00:18] <Romario> I'll be patient ;-)
[00:18] <slangasek> wgrant: just waiting for the green light so I can kick an ubiquity update through soyuz :)
[00:19] <slangasek> zeth: uh, I've not heard of any OSes coming with svn preinstalled
[00:19] <wgrant> The topic suggests that it's up, but apparently not...
[00:19] <slangasek> and if they do, they have my condolences
[00:19] <wgrant> Haha.
[00:19] <cjwatson> there's nothing to stop somebody writing a subversion plugin that knows how to read from bzr branches (well, apart from it being very difficult to do)
[00:19] <slangasek> ooh, my cronjob is back, yay
[00:20] <cjwatson> the bzr/svn integration that I think zeth must be talking about is the reverse of that, a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories. adopting that code would not magically make bzr branches available by svn
[00:21] <Peng_> bzr-svn can push back to svn.
[00:21] <cjwatson> "a bzr plugin that knows how to read from and write to svn repositories"
[00:21] <slangasek> it can; but bzr is a distributed vcs whereas svn is not, so there's an important asymmetry there
[00:21] <cjwatson> that doesn't turn a bzr branch into an svn repository
[00:21] <wgrant> cjwatson: It can, actually. You can push a branch to an empty SVN repo, AFAIK.
[00:22] <wgrant> But it's pointless.
[00:22] <cjwatson> that's little good if it's only one-way
[00:22] <cjwatson> you might be able to set it up but it would be pretty hideous
[00:22] <wgrant> There's little chance of it ever being two-way due to them being... rather different ideas.
[00:22] <slangasek> it would give you a read-only svn mirror, I guess
[00:22] <slangasek> but only of select branches
[00:23] <slangasek> and with terrible revision history visibility from the svn client
[00:23] <cjwatson> nobody else attempts to make repositories available in multiple formats, anyway. they support multiple revision control systems but you only get to use one at a time. that's because nobody else is quite that insane either :-)
[00:24] <cjwatson> in fact launchpad is the only system I'm aware of that's trying to provide additional ways of checking out repositories on a large scale, by means of making as much of the world as possible available using bzr
[00:26] <cjwatson> but that's one-way read-only rolling imports too
[00:38] <bdmurray> "Duplicate Of:" is optional at a bug's +duplicate page?
[00:39] <jml> bdmurray: yeah, you can make it empty to unset it.
[00:39] <jml> bdmurray: confused me a bit when I first saw it, actually.
[00:39] <bdmurray> right, but if it is already empty should it shouldn't be optional right?
[00:40] <jml> bdmurray: I guess not.. I mean, it'd just be a no-op.
[00:41] <mwh> most of the "(optional)" tags on launchpad are traps for the unwary or something
[01:00] <hoop> hello
[01:00] <hoop> please, what would this error mean?
[01:00] <hoop> Permission denied (publickey).
[01:00] <hoop> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[01:00] <mwh> hoop: codehosting is not yet back up since the launchpad rollout an hour ago
[01:00] <mwh> hoop: will be back soon
[01:01] <hoop> oh, okay :) thanks
[01:07] <hoop> mwh, is there a way to know when it is back, or I just try later?
[01:07] <jml> hoop: try now :)
[01:07] <mwh> hoop: yeah, it should be working now
[01:08] <hoop> worked! thank you =)
[02:05] <barry_> python-dev
[02:18] <lamalex> does launchpad's search support wildcards?
[02:18] <lamalex> I'm trying to find a bug that I know exists but I can't remember the name, I know it has a < in the title though
[02:18] <lamalex> that's all I know
[02:20] <lamalex> nm, gmail found it for me
[02:41] <vadi2> Can someone please help and stop launchpad spam, it subscribed several teams to one and this is not supposed to work that way: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/45313
[02:43] <Hobbsee> vadi2: not at this time of day, but you'd need kiko, etc.
[02:43] <vadi2> alright
[02:43] <Hobbsee> vadi2: but i'd expect you should be able to undo that yourself.
[02:44] <vadi2> I already searched everywhere.
[02:44] <vadi2> I don't recall doing that to begin with.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> come on launchpad.  Please don't take 10+ seconds to load a new page.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> make that 30+
[02:45] <Hobbsee> 35.992!
[02:46] <Hobbsee> vadi2: is it just bugs, or all of it?
[02:46] <vadi2> only bugs that I know of, those questions don't have answers and launchpad doesn't do blueprints
[02:46] <vadi2> but bugs are bad enough
[02:46] <Hobbsee> vadi2: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/getdeb-web/+subscribe
[02:47] <vadi2> ahah...
[02:47] <Hobbsee> vadi2: obvious, isn't it?
[02:47] <vadi2> okay. I did do that myself. I thought I was signing up myself to those groups, not those groups to getdeb...
[02:47] <Hobbsee> (not!)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> ahhh.
[02:48] <vadi2> ty Hobbsee
[02:48] <Hobbsee> vadi2: y/w.  Do you know how to add yourself to the teams?
[02:48] <vadi2> yeah, go to the team page and click join team
[02:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[03:37] <kirkland> how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
[03:39] <thumper> kirkland: not sure, but the people to bug are barry, flacoste and kiko (one of them anyway)
[03:39] <kirkland> thumper: thanks ;-)
[03:39] <thumper> possibly other people, but likely they are in the same TX
[03:39] <thumper> TZ
[03:39] <thumper> not texas
[05:50] <persia> jml: Moving here to get back on-topic.
[05:50] <jml> ahh yes.
[05:51] <persia> In the specific case of a web service with a public beta interface, I think that "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released" doesn't do well for mapping issues.
[05:51]  * jml neither
[05:51] <persia> Essentially, one wants somehting "Fix Committed" when it hits VCS trunk, and "Fix Released" when it is in a shipping product.
[05:51] <persia> For projects that have a tarball, this works.
[05:52] <persia> For a web service, you have a moving target of your public beta, which maps poorly to the set of things that are Fix Committed.
[05:52] <persia> IF you set these things to Fix Released, then you lose the ability to track what is actually in the production web service.
[05:53] <jml> right. the thing here is that 'released' has an implicit destination.
[05:53] <persia> One possible workaround would be to give a version number to each push to the beta interface (as a "release"), and then indicate which of those happened to apply to the production service, but that might be tricky.
[05:54] <persia> So the (daily?) updates to edge would be e.g. <IP_ADDRESS>, <IP_ADDRESS>, <IP_ADDRESS>, ...  and when 2.1.9 was finally pushed to lpnet, it would happen to be <IP_ADDRESS> or something, and edge would get <IP_ADDRESS>
[05:54] <persia> Mind you, I'm not sure how you guys tend to work, so this may or may not actually be a feasible workaround.
[05:55] <persia> Also, there would need to be some sensible way to gather the set of things that were included in all published 2.1.9 releases for release notes when pushing to lpnet, etc.
[05:56] <jml> yeah
[05:56] <persia> Also, does anyone happen to know the bug number for the exceedingly small fonts?  I've seen a couple mentions about the issue, but none with a bug number, and find myself squinting today.
[05:56] <jml> not off the top of my head.
[05:57] <persia> jml: No worries.  I'm just hoping *someone* does, not you.  I'll search for it later if nobody knows.
[05:57] <jml> a quick search found some older bugs.
[06:01] <persia> Yeah.  That was my problem too.
[06:01] <persia> There's some specific change in this series that generated some mail and IRC traffic, but that's not necessarily related to the older font bugs.
[06:04] <jamesh> jml: out of interest, are you using testresources for anything public?
[06:04] <jamesh> or just improving it for the hell of it? :)
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: not for anything public yet.
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: I want it to join my pyunit-friends movement.
[06:05] <jml> jamesh: also, I'd like to use it internally in Launchpad.
[06:15] <jamesh> jml: looks like I'm the only one who has been filing bugs against it ...
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: I toyed with using it in Twisted a few years ago
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: but I find it really hard to change Twisted, even when it's a good idea.
[06:16] <jamesh> having an example of best practice use of the code would have been useful ...
[06:16] <jml> jamesh: *nod*
[06:17] <jml> jamesh: the reason I started working on it again is that we do a bunch of things that are kind of close to testresources
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: but I felt that writing my own separate version wasn't the best approach.
[06:18] <jamesh> I wonder if it'd be easier to use if there were some constraints on the actual resource objects
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: well, my next plan is to have a base class for the resource objects.
[06:18] <jml> jamesh: which will have setUp, tearDown and addCleanup.
[06:19] <jamesh> resource dependencies would be nice too
[06:19] <jml> jamesh: it won't be a constraint, per se, but it should make it easier to write them.
[06:19] <jml> jamesh: that's in the revised todo, I think.
[07:08] <didrocks> Hi there!
[07:08] <jml> hi
[07:09] <didrocks> I have uploaded in my ppa, two days ago a wrong version number of a package for iptables (1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1)
[07:09] <didrocks> I ask for a removal, what has be done in LP
[07:09] <didrocks> I know that we have to wait for 24 hours to have it removed from the archives
[07:10] <didrocks> but it's still not done by the cron, apparently:
[07:10] <didrocks> 2008-09-18 06:07:58 WARNING     iptables_1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1_i386.deb: Version older than that in the archive. 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1~ppa1 <= 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1
[07:10] <didrocks> (an so, my build failed because of upload)
[07:15] <persia> didrocks: Indeed.  This is by design.  There is no way to recover sensibly.
[07:16] <persia> didrocks: You could bump the version to something like 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy2~ppa1 but users will not then upgrade to 1.4.0-4ubuntu2~hardy1 if it is pushed to backports.
[07:16] <didrocks> persia: during a ppa presentation, it seemed to me that there were an automatic removal within the 24 hours from the archives, did I dreamt ? :)
[07:16] <persia> didrocks: Removal of the packages doesn't remove the listings from the blacklist
[07:16] <persia> You could put it in a different PPA.
[07:16] <didrocks> eventually…
[07:17] <persia> No today.  Just sign up for a new account.
[07:17] <didrocks> I was so dum to forgot this ~ppa…
[07:17] <persia> didrocks: Well, maybe.  maybe you're using the PPA for something different than that for which it was designed (and no, I don't know towards what end it was designed, and don't think anyone currently does)
[07:18] <didrocks> persia: so, a possible bypass is to use another ppa (I do not want people testing iptables can't then upgrade to the backport one, if accepted)
[07:19] <persia> didrocks: Yep.  Each PPA has a different blacklist.
[07:19] <didrocks> thx persia
[07:19] <wgrant> You could also create a teamk.;
[07:19] <wgrant> s/k.;/./
[07:19] <persia> wgrant: Easier to make a new user go away when testing is complete from a merge than to make a team go away, isn't it?
[07:20] <wgrant> persia: True.
[07:25] <wgrant> Oh my god. Is there really no way for me to remove all of the CVEs on bug #270404 without severe pain?
[07:25] <wgrant> Why are there not checkboxes on +unlinkcve!?
[08:37] <imyojimbo> hi, im trying to push a branch to lp , and i get "The server's host key is not cached in the registry"
[08:37] <wgrant> That is normal if you're doing it for the first time on Windows.
[08:39] <imyojimbo> so what do i do? it errors
[08:39] <imyojimbo> bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions (and try -Dhpss if further diagnosis is required)
[08:40] <wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
[08:40] <wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
[09:53] <_mh> hi all -- I've been trying to lookup if bazaar has any tag replacement like svn for $Id$ $author$, etc -- is there some documentation anyone can point me towards pls?
[09:53] <poolie> _mh, there's a plugin
[09:53] <poolie> um
[09:54] <poolie> i think
[09:54] <poolie> https://launchpad.net/bzr-keywords
[09:54] <_mh> I thought the plugin was called 'um' ; how clever am i? :)
[09:54] <_mh> poolie, many thanks, checking it out
[10:04] <jamesh> _mh: there is also the "bzr version-info" command you could use as part of your build process
[10:04]  * wgrant dislikes things like $Id$
[10:04] <wgrant> They make for useless noise in diffs.
[10:05] <_mh> jamesh, I'll check that out as well, thank you
[10:05] <jamesh> if you're doing a Python program, "bzr version-info --python" will generate a Python module that'll provide the info
[10:15] <imyojimbo0> (i was disconnected, can u write again)
[10:20] <imyojimbo0> im using bzr+windows. bzr push to launchpad fails on me, errors something about "The server's host key is not cached in the registry." and after that "bzr: ERROR: Connection closed: please check connectivity and permissions"
[10:21] <wgrant> 17:40:35 < wgrant> imyojimbo: Bug #237297 seems to give a workaround.
[10:21] <wgrant> 17:40:43 < wgrant> But I'm not sure about how this stuff works on Windows.
[10:21] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: ^^
[10:22] <imyojimbo0> i've read that page. i still dont understand how to fix this
[10:22] <imyojimbo0> i understand i need to load the keys into the cache or something. dont know how
[10:23] <wgrant> Try opening up PuTTY and connecting to bazaar.launchpad.net
[10:23] <wgrant> That should ask you to confirm the key.
[10:23] <wgrant> Once you do that, you should be able to use bzr.
[10:23] <imyojimbo0> is bazaar.launchpad.net a valid ssh server?
[10:24] <wgrant> It won't let you get a shell.
[10:24] <wgrant> But it will let you connect.
[10:24] <wgrant> (and throw you out, but that doesn't matter here)
[10:27] <imyojimbo0> ok, its doing something now
[10:27] <imyojimbo0> taking quite along time
[10:30] <imyojimbo0> Created new branch!
[10:30] <imyojimbo0> wgrant cool, thanks alot
[10:30] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: Excellent! No problem.
[10:31] <imyojimbo0> is this something thats gonna be fixed in the future, or is this the way it should be?
[10:35] <wgrant> imyojimbo0: It's the way it should be.
[10:35] <wgrant> bzr should perhaps prompt you better.
[10:35] <wgrant> But it does fine on !Windows, AFAIK.
[10:49] <Hobbsee> dear launchpad....what the hell?  No love, me.
[10:49] <Hobbsee> can someone explain to me how bug nomination works please?
[10:52] <Hobbsee> kiko: can you help me with this?  This used to work in an obvious way.
[10:53] <Hobbsee> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/flashplugin-nonfree/+bug/246269 - if you hit approve/decline on the last one, it pops up an approve button, and a decline button, on initramfs-tools.  What I want to know is which task i'll actually be changing, and hwo to change the lower tasks.
[11:00] <gmb> Hobbsee: That's very weird behaviour.   I knew that much.
[11:07] <Hobbsee> :)
[11:07] <gmb> wgrant: Are there bugs filed about this?
[11:07] <wgrant> gmb: Of course.
[11:07]  * wgrant digs them up.
[11:07] <gmb> wgrant: Sorry, silly question.
[11:09] <wgrant> Bug #110195
[11:09] <wgrant> Bug #162411, bug #262577 are also relevant.
[11:10] <gmb> wgrant: Right, thanks.
[11:10] <Hobbsee> oh, that's only 17 months old.  A young bug!
[11:11]  * Hobbsee --> dinner.
[11:11] <wgrant> gmb: You're not likely to find an LP complaint of mine that hasn't been filed. Hence the "Of course".
[11:12] <gmb> wgrant: As it should be :).
[11:13] <gmb> Hobbsee, wgrant: So, JS problem is quite simply shonky JavaScript, but it arises, I think, from the fact that nominations are created at the bug level (even though they're approved or rejected at the bug task level).
[11:14] <wgrant> That is a misfeature, but it looks that way.
[11:14] <gmb> (Because the area that's supposed to be expanded is named after the nomination object, and there's only one of those for the bug, so all the approve/decline areas are named the same thing).
[11:14] <wgrant> That's what I suspected.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> wgrant: can you file the lack of relevant headers bug then too?  :P
[11:15] <Hobbsee> gmb: right, OK.
[11:15] <gmb> Hobbsee: to answer your question, then, if the buttons appear for initramfs-tools then they'll affect initramfs-tools.
[11:15] <Hobbsee> and not the rest?
[11:16] <wgrant> I wish.
[11:16] <gmb> Checking now...
[11:16] <gmb> Hobbsee: No, they'll affect everything. Which is bonkers.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> gmb: oh, lovely.
[11:17] <wgrant> That is bug #110195.
[11:17] <Hobbsee> gmb: bonkers is better than what I was thinking.
[11:17] <wgrant> Isn't it?
[11:17] <Hobbsee> anyway, --> really @ dinner.
[11:18]  * gmb files a bug about the JS, looks into 110195 in more detail.
[11:19] <wgrant> AFAICT the misfeature in #110195 is quite deliberate. There must have been quite some extra work to make it create all those tasks.
[11:19] <gmb> wgrant: Well, I'm not sure yet that nominations aren't just working on the bug level and appearing to look like they work on the task level, which really would be crackers.
[11:21] <wgrant> Right, I guess it could well just be that the entire bug is nominated for the series. That would only manifest itself where one could have multiple tasks sharing the same set of series, ie. distributions...
[11:21] <wgrant> But it is still surely extra work to make it work on a bug level.
[11:22] <wgrant> Don't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by LP's annoying project-centricity, I guess.
[12:07]  * Hobbsee finally gets back from dinner.
[12:07] <Hobbsee> gmb: oh good.  I'll hope for a less bonkers LP then.
[12:07] <\sh> hmm
[12:08] <\sh> looks like I don't get it somehow
[12:08] <gmb> Hobbsee: it's going to be our codename for 3.0: "Now with 50% less crack"
[12:08] <Hobbsee> gmb: woot!
[12:08] <Hobbsee> gmb: but with 50% more useless features, which introduce more crack?
[12:09]  * Hobbsee still routinely goes for any new people / team URL's she visits, and sticks their people in random countries.
[12:09]  * gmb confesses he's been tempted to do that more than once
[12:10] <gmb> I'm sure there's a team somewhere all of whose members are in Antarctica.
[12:10] <\sh> if somebody can enlighten me, why http://paste.ubuntu.com/48000/ <- this is not working?
[12:10] <Hobbsee> gmb: i'm in antartica.
[12:10] <Hobbsee> (which I placed.  but still)
[12:11] <mwh> \sh: you need to pass the service root in to the constructor don't you?
[12:11]  * mwh is not here
[12:11] <\sh> mwh: not reading the introduction.txt
[12:12] <\sh> there it's just pass the credentials
[12:12] <\sh> but reading launchpad.py yes
[12:12] <\sh> gnarf
[12:14] <\sh> yay...works
[12:17] <gnomefreak> what version of LP are the launchpad-beta-testers on?
[12:19] <gnomefreak> nevermind i see it in lower right corner
[12:30] <Hobbsee> gmb: will it also be "and 50% faster"?
[12:30] <Hobbsee> gmb: do you think you could get launchpad to load in under 6 seconds, on my machine?  :)
[12:31] <Hobbsee> 20 seconds for the extremely long firefox bug.
[12:34] <wgrant> Almost identical for me.
[12:34]  * Hobbsee wonders how to list all open bugs, in everything.
[12:34] <Hobbsee> oh, you search with an empty string.  right.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> argh.  that incredibly stupid milestone bug isn't fixed yet either.
[12:35] <Hobbsee> less maps, more fixes for incredibly stupid bugs, please :)
[13:09] <NCommander> The Hardy, Gutsy, and Fiesty backports project is getting hit with a load of spam
[13:18] <NCommander> Is there any way to magicially get close roughly 15-20 bugs on two projects?
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: spam from what?
[13:19] <NCommander> Hobbsee: This person opened 15 needs-packaging bugs, then added fiety and gutsy backports to all of them
[13:19] <NCommander> All in bulk it seems
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: have you tried speaking to the person yet?
[13:19] <NCommander> No contact address on his LP profile
[13:19] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you can use the mail interface, or py-lp-bugs somehow.
[13:20] <NCommander> What mail interface
[13:20] <NCommander> Ugh, now my mailbox is at 80
[13:20] <NCommander> It was at 10 just 20 minutes ago
[13:21] <Hobbsee> https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/EmailInterface
[13:21] <NCommander> Ugh
[13:21] <NCommander> He's adding it to EVERY needs-packaging requests
[13:22] <Hobbsee> NCommander: what's the user ID?
[13:22] <Hobbsee> (not that I can do anything, but hopefully the bugsquad knows about him)
[13:22] <intellectronica> NCommander: using the api?
[13:22] <Hobbsee> intellectronica!
[13:22] <intellectronica> NCommander: getting the list of bugs is not available yet (hopefully early next week), but if you have the list of bugs you can use the api to close them
[13:22] <intellectronica> Hobbsee!
[13:23] <NCommander> https://edge.launchpad.net/~technical-ezekiel33
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: i have a request for LP3.0.
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: file a bug?...
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: it's bigger than that.
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: what is it, b.t.w?
[13:23] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: write a blueprint?...
[13:23] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: I want to see launchpad load times cut in half.  That means, loading a page on an australian connection, in under 6 seconds.  Do you think it's doable?
[13:24] <Hobbsee> (australian broadband, that is)
[13:24] <Hobbsee> and no more of these 20-40 second page loads.
[13:25] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: load times are a combination of many things. but rest assured, this is one of the things that are high on our priority list for 3.0
[13:25] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: i'm aware of that - but the rest of the pages i load take nothing like 12 seconds to load :)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> (from a non-LP site)
[13:25] <Hobbsee> and none take 40.
[13:26] <NCommander> I never get these mythical 20-40 second loads
[13:27] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: 40 seconds to load? that's terrible. please please please file bugs about such cases. we don't always know, since we only measure the time it takes to render the pages on the server, not how long it takes to actually load them from various places around the world
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: yeah, I had one of them earlier.
[13:27] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: b.t.w you do cache, right? you're not loading all the images, etc, with every page?...
[13:27] <NCommander> Hobbsee: the firefir EULA page :-)
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: I can try - i only recently started using the extended statusbar extension, which actually files them.
[13:27] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: correct, i do - but that doesn't seem to help when starting from a non-LP site.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> NCommander: that bug?  No, that takes 21 seconds.
[13:28] <Hobbsee> er, s/files/times/
[13:29] <Hobbsee> hm, 13 seconds this time.  It was taking 21 seconds when i loaded it before.
[13:29] <NCommander> reboot time
[13:30] <intellectronica> Hobbsee: also, to isolate load time from desktop slowness, try timing the load of the same page with wget or curl
[13:31] <Hobbsee> intellectronica: that's true.
[14:09] <flacoste> This is a bit tricky, as Wiki pages, many times, are a result of lengthy phone/in person discussions, so decisions like
[14:09] <flacoste> priorities may be controversial with users.
[14:09] <flacoste> I guess I'm a bit afraid that if the doors are too wide open, we may end up with hundreds of "PLAES IMPLAMANT THIS!!!"
[14:09] <flacoste> comments. OTOH, that could happen with LP bugs today, so maybe it's just me being overly paranoid.
[14:10] <flacoste> lol
[14:10] <flacoste> damn button 2, i shouldn't select everything i read
[14:17] <wgrant> Good to see it is being discussed, however.
[14:22] <NCommander> Hobbsee: Well, two emails sent, and he still spams our tracker
[14:23] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you might try to poke someone into finding an admin and asking them to remove his account, then.
[14:24]  * NCommander looks to see if any admin is awake
[14:26]  * beuno pokes kiko-afk and Rinchen
[15:08] <radix> is there a way to share milestones between two projects?
[15:08] <andrea-bs> radix: are they subprojects of the same superproject?
[15:09] <radix> andrea-bs: they could be, but they're not now
[15:09] <radix> andrea-bs: would that help?
[15:09] <radix> I couldn't find a way to create a milestone in a superproject
[15:09] <beuno> andrea-bs, I don't think you an share milestones among projects, no
[15:10] <andrea-bs> radix: if the milestones of two (or more) subprojects have the same name, they can be considered "shared"
[15:10] <radix> andrea-bs: does launchpad do something special, or are you just saying I could treat them as the same?
[15:10] <andrea-bs> radix: you'll geto something like this: https://launchpad.net/launchpad-project/+milestones
[15:12] <andrea-bs> in a sense they are shared because you can view bugs and blueprints targeted in the same page, but actually they aren't -- they only have the same name and superproject
[15:12] <radix> ok
[15:13] <radix> I think probably one of my biggest annoyances is that you can't edit the details of two bug tasks at the same time
[15:24] <det> Does Launchpad have any advantages over Opensuse build service? IOW, why not use OBS for your repo for all you packages (fedora/suse/ubuntu/etc)?
[15:34] <persia> det: As a competitor to PPAs, it may make sense.  For LP-hosted distros, it probably makes more sense to use Soyuz for the integration with Malone (uploads-close-bugs).
[15:39] <DnaX> Hi, please, anyone can do it? https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/44656
[15:39] <DnaX> require a DB patch
[15:44]  * beuno pokes kiko-afk again ^
[15:45] <DnaX> who are launchpad admins?
[15:47] <andrea-bs> DnaX: https://launchpad.net/~admins
[15:47] <DnaX> thank you andrea-bs :P
[16:02] <DnaX> kiko-afk: can you do a DB patch?
[16:35] <kirkland> flacoste: kiko-afk: how long does it take a team mailing list to get approved in Launchpad, generally?
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: it depends, can be instantaneous if you ask here!
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: what list?
[16:36] <flacoste> barry: ^^^
[16:36] <kirkland> flacoste: ecryptfs, thanks!
[16:36] <flacoste> kirkland: officially, we look at it daily
[16:36] <flacoste> so a turnaround of one day
[16:36] <flacoste> but, we sometime slack on that
[16:36] <flacoste> but that should be fixed next week
[16:37] <kirkland> flacoste: gotcha
[16:37] <barry> kirkland: done!
[16:37] <kirkland> barry: rock on, thanks ;-)
[16:38] <barry> kirkland: np!
[16:38] <kirkland> one more unrelated question....
[16:38] <kirkland> is there a way to reverse sort the list of files at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/ecryptfs/release_tarballs/files for example?
[16:39] <kirkland> i see sort=filename
[16:39] <kirkland> but i want to reverse sort on filename
[16:39] <beuno> kirkland, hm, no. But, if you file a bug, I will make it happen!
[16:39] <kirkland> beuno: cool, thanks ;-)
[16:39] <beuno> https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead
[16:41] <kirkland> beuno: https://bugs.launchpad.net/loggerhead/+bug/271787
[16:41] <kirkland> beuno: thanks ;-)
[16:42] <beuno> kirkland, your welcome  :)
[16:55] <ignas> hi, how do I send a question to another project?
[16:56] <ignas> i have https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593
[16:56] <ignas> but I think launchpad people are more qualified to answer it...
[16:57] <andrea-bs> ignas: go to https://answers.launchpad.net/schooltool/+question/45593/+edit and change the "Project" field
[16:57] <intellectronica> ignas: yes, this question would be more appropriate in https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar
[16:58] <ignas> andrea-bs, intellectronica: thanks
[17:06] <\sh> hmm...
[17:06] <\sh> I just approved an app via api on stable launchpad...but logging in via credentials is not possible...now I wonder why
[17:08] <thekorn> this happens for me sometimes too,
[17:08] <thekorn> do you get an httperror or something
[17:08] <\sh> thekorn: 401 Unauthorized
[17:09] <\sh> the same credentials file on edge works flawlessly
[17:09] <thekorn> oh on stable
[17:10] <thekorn> is it even possible to use stable?
[17:10] <\sh> thekorn: that I don't know..I can see my auth tokens on stable and on edge...
[17:40] <infinito> is there any place where i can find some docs about ubuntu's launchpad-integration libs??
[17:41] <beuno> infinito, https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib
[17:41] <infinito> beuno: thanks!
[17:41] <beuno> :)
[17:42] <infinito> is it possible to use it to search for packages inside ubuntu??
[17:42] <infinito> or is it just for bugs?
[17:43] <beuno> I'm not sure how much of that is done in the API
[17:43] <beuno> bigjools?
[17:44] <bigjools> there's no Soyuz API yet
[17:44] <beuno> infinito, that's a
[17:44] <beuno> "not yet"
[17:50] <infinito> hummm so no way to access...
[17:50] <beuno> no, but there will be eventually
[17:50] <\sh> at least...leonov works now with launchpadlib (at least on edge) now for the GUI parts (http://leonov.tv/content/leonov-launchpadlib-your-data-thats-me <- a first glance of what that can be)
[17:52] <beuno> \sh, oh, very cool!
[17:52] <beuno> congrats, it's looking good
[17:54] <bigjools> beuno: right sorry, I was on a call
[17:54] <\sh> beuno: well, it needs more, but that's just UI work and some bits of code writing ,)
[17:55] <beuno> bigjools, sorry for what?  we got our answer, so thanks!  :)
[17:56] <bigjools> beuno: for being terse :)
[17:56] <beuno> \sh, if you'd like some UI tips, I'll grab a branch and take it for a spin
[17:56] <beuno> bigjools, no worries  :)
[17:57] <\sh> beuno: kde4 style and later on gtk/gnome style :) would be a cool idea...I'm a donkey regarding UI :)
[17:59] <beuno> \sh, will give it a go then!
[18:00] <\sh> beuno: just wait for a "go"...I need to push some stuff still to lp:leonov/leonov-kde (this is my kde branch)
[18:00] <beuno> \sh, sure. Just poke when you're ready
[19:27] <kiko> thekorn, \sh: the API only works on edge; ask leonardr or flacoste for details.
[19:27] <\sh> kiko: just found out :
[19:27] <\sh> )
[19:27] <\sh> thekorn: we need to change py-lp-bugs...edge support is broken ;)
[19:27] <\sh> cu tomorrow
[19:27] <flacoste> \sh: you should
[19:27] <flacoste> test on staging first anywya :-)
[19:28] <leonardr> kiko, flacoste: what? is this a bug?
[19:28] <thekorn> but staging is terribly slow these days
[19:29] <kiko> thekorn, shouldn't be at least from my usage
[19:29] <flacoste> leonardr: no, it's not
[19:29] <leonardr> oh, kiko's saying that it only works on edge *and staging*
[19:30] <leonardr> and not on produciton
[19:30] <leonardr> speaking of which i should publish that blog entry
[19:30] <thekorn> one other think: is it possible to not sync the oauth token of edge and staging?
[19:30] <thekorn> problem with testing on staging is: yyou have to regenerate your oauth tokens each day
[19:31] <salgado> thekorn, but you could use a token from edge on staging, as long as it was authorized at least one day ago
[19:32] <thekorn> oh, sounds like a good idea


[13:57] <sil2100> Hangout link for the current session: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
[13:59] <sil2100> asac: ^
[14:02]  * rsalveti waves
[14:02]  * sergiusens waves back
[14:02] <zyga> hi
[14:02] <lool> doanac`: you're ok in terms of audio; video is a bit choppy but it's ok
[14:04] <zyga> doanac`: checkbox is used for sru testing and other kinds of "testing"
[14:05] <lool> what about autopkgtests?
[14:05] <cjwatson> lool: it's mentioned there
[14:05] <lool> ah sorry need to check the pad
[14:07] <rfowler> can't see etherpad
[14:08] <Ursinha> rfowler, try to "separate notes window" and it should ask to login (happened here a couple of times)
[14:09] <lool> rfowler: http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1308-disccuss-critical-pieces-of-ci-infrastructure
[14:09] <rfowler> Ursinha: that worked
[14:09] <Ursinha> good :)
[14:10] <elmo> canonistack is a known oversubscribed resource
[14:10] <elmo> you shouldn't be using it for production services
[14:10] <elmo> that's what prodstack is for
[14:11] <zyga> doanac`: then use aws instead of canonistack
[14:15] <plars> not *too* much, but sometimes it's helpful to get at the config files directly
[14:16] <plars> we do manually touch a lot of the nodes, especially those that are connected to devices
[14:16] <plars> I'm probably behind where the conversation is at though...
[14:17] <rfowler> most have remote management
[14:17] <zyga> doanac`, plars, asac: maybe we should run lava to control the phones?
[14:18] <lool> asac: right
[14:18] <plars> the public/private split is due to firewall restrictions
[14:18] <zyga> asac: we also have that issue (public/private) jenkins
[14:18] <lool> asac: I think the QA Lab was built separated from everything else
[14:18] <lool> asac: while public one was built alone just for this
[14:19] <lool> perhaps worth discussing stability of x86 machines used for testing graphics (e.g. Mir/Unity)?
[14:20] <lool> it's on the path to land Mir or some stacks, even if that's not ARM
[14:21] <cjwatson> elmo: Yeah, I can understand the rationale.  I mostly just don't want to silently not mention that it's a practical problem for us, in this kind of session, although it is something we are living with
[14:23] <sergiusens> rfowler: do people in the EMEA or APAC timezone have access to remote management?
[14:23] <Mirv> sergiusens: yes, the problems we've had have been that remote power switching has not been enough
[14:23] <rfowler> sergiusens: i don't see why not
[14:23] <Mirv> or some of them, obviously many have been resolved with power switching remotely
[14:23] <sil2100> sergiusens: sometimes we could resolve it remotely, but there were moments when this was not enough
[14:23] <sergiusens> rfowler: yeah, we just need to have a goto list somewhere
[14:24] <sergiusens> sil2100: I know
[14:24] <Mirv> sergiusens: there's QA wiki page with quite a lot of details
[14:24] <rfowler> https://wiki.canonical.com/UbuntuEngineering/QA/Lab
[14:24] <rfowler> sergiusens:
[14:24] <lool> doanac`, jibel: (ack)
[14:24] <rfowler> sergiusens: i update it constantly
[14:25] <rfowler> there are only two machines like that jibel...
[14:25] <zyga> we have the same class of issues in certification test pool
[14:25] <rfowler> with exception to the phones
[14:25] <sergiusens> rfowler: oh, I asked ones for something so I don't restart the wrong thing regarding that :-)
[14:25] <zyga> we're automatically booting about 50 machines for remote testing
[14:25] <zyga> some have issue with boot-from-lan or need manual interventions often
[14:26] <zyga> but we have a large lab / office where people have access to all hardware so it's easy to get around
[14:26] <rfowler> i can spin up one :)
[14:26] <zyga> we also look at moving to something like maas or maas derived to manage our pool
[14:26] <plars> right
[14:26] <zyga> with extra features for less-than-ideal-hardware
[14:26] <zyga> like manual action console for people on site
[14:26] <zyga> or support for odd boot methods and one-off solutions
[14:27] <zyga> integrated power management not based on IPMI
[14:27] <zyga> and stuff like that
[14:27] <rfowler> asac: we are limited by space in this current lab for that
[14:27] <zyga> perhaps the same stuff can be reused to run other lbas
[14:27] <zyga> labs
[14:27] <chiluk> or you could get a good remote control adapter
[14:27] <zyga> (and we're also going to use tablets/phones there)
[14:27] <chiluk> or machines that come with a good one.
[14:27] <chiluk> like hp ilo etc.
[14:27] <Mirv> rfowler: btw that page being up-to-date has been very appreciated when we've been remote debugging
[14:27] <plars> yeah, I'm lost... I think the conversation took a very different turn
[14:28] <chiluk> in this day and age there is no excuse to need someone to go push buttons on a server
[14:28] <lool> ev: it's not jenkins, it's the physical slaves
[14:28] <lool> ev: like e.g. some machine with ATI graphics
[14:28] <ev> ah, right
[14:28] <rfowler> Mirv: np
[14:28] <zyga> we also have two physical labs so we have all-globe coverage pretty much
[14:28] <plars> I think it's more like needing to add lots more devices and move towards scheduling them more dynamically
[14:28] <rfowler> Mirv: keeps me sane too when I bring up all these boxes
[14:28] <lool> or nexus 4 / nexus 7
[14:29] <cjwatson> chiluk: A lot of the stuff here is inherently not server-class, surely (e.g. mobile)
[14:29]  * zyga feels totally ignored here ;)
[14:29] <sergiusens> zyga: i'm reading you
[14:29] <chiluk> cjwatson, I understand mobile...
[14:29] <sergiusens> but the conversation seems hard to interject
[14:29] <lool> zyga: (I'm reading you but mostly throwing questions at the conversation from the hangout :-)
[14:30] <zyga> thanks!
[14:30] <zyga> I think we have the _exact_ same problems but you have a bit larger scale, I'm just interested in getting a good solution for both teams
[14:30] <rfowler> there are already 25+ phones/devices in the lab and I'm generally on top of keeping them up
[14:30] <sergiusens> zyga: join the hangout!
[14:30] <lool> zyga: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/617b2d450bf059edef8675e873a4c84aead18077?authuser=0&hl=en
[14:31] <zyga> sergiusens: it's full and I don't want to interrupt you that much but ok
[14:31] <lool> zyga: isn't it up to 15?
[14:31] <chiluk> doanac++
[14:31] <zyga> it's full
[14:31] <plars> iirc there were difficulties making our test VMs and physical machines provision with maas because it lent itself more to knowing ahead of time what you want, where we want the crack of the day
[14:31] <Ursinha> I thought there was a 10 people limit
[14:31] <plars> retoaded: you looked into that a lot I think?
[14:31] <sergiusens> zyga: I'm dropping so you can join
[14:31] <plars> but I still think we're having lots of different conversations in parallel here
[14:32] <plars> ah
[14:32] <zyga> thanks
[14:32] <plars> that pc is not a huge thing to replace
[14:32] <chiluk> can't we hack phones with arduinos to push buttons?
[14:32] <sergiusens> zyga: get in!
[14:32] <chiluk> i know the unity/mir team has something like that for their display hotplug testing
[14:32] <plars> there's not much to charm for nodes like phoenix
[14:32] <rfowler> chiluk: I'm working on that
[14:32] <retoaded> plars, we're still stuck with what maas can provide on precise until the lab gets update to a more recent version anyway
[14:32] <chiluk> rfowler nice
[14:32] <plars> the only "special" piece it needs is the jenkins slave, and a bit of udev rules that we scp from just about anywhere else
[14:32] <plars> that's it
[14:36] <plars> where would we put our VMs if we did that? prodstack?
[14:37] <plars> does it support us doing something like this and can it handle us spinning up lots of VMs in this way?
[14:37]  * cjwatson drops off so there's more space for people contributing more
[14:38]  * ogra_ agrees with cjwatson and leaves too
[14:44] <zyga> asac: how do you plan on using charms on the various test machines?
[14:44] <zyga> asac: using openstack on virtual machines and use a juju provider for that
[14:44] <zyga> asac: what about physical machines? maas?
[14:45] <jamespage> here to answer questions re jenkins/java in the archive if need be...
[14:45] <jamespage> elmo, either
[14:45] <jamespage> elmo, fastpath = image based
[14:46] <jamespage> elmo, or d-i based installed
[14:47] <nuclearbob> we can still do that with pxe without cobbler
[14:47] <zyga> we don't use cobbler
[14:47] <zyga> and we also use maas to test servers and cloud setups lately
[14:49] <sergiusens> rfowler: asac: doanac`: can we electrically open all the devices for power cycling initially?
[14:49] <sergiusens> devices == phones, tablets
[14:49] <doanac`> sergiusens: currently they just attached via USB to the host
[14:50] <doanac`> rfowler was looking into adding the ability to "push the power button". but its pretty hard and requires soldering
[14:50] <zyga> doanac`: lava lmp boards :)
[14:51] <sergiusens> asac: there's the RT bucket
[14:51] <sergiusens> retoaded: ^^
[14:51] <sergiusens> fginther: ^^
[14:51] <doanac`> zyga: thought about it, but I'm not sure if that works well with consumer products like an N4
[14:52] <retoaded> sergiusens, that works for the instances that lead to an RT being filed. Many we handled via E-mail or IRC
[14:53] <sergiusens> retoaded: yeah, that sort of sucks i retrospect...
[14:53] <retoaded> :-)
[14:53] <sergiusens> *in
[14:54] <elmo> jamespage: is the image specific to MAAS or was I making that up?
[14:54] <jamespage> elmo, for fast path - yes
[14:54] <jamespage> elmo, for d-i its just the stock mini.iso installer stuff thats used
[14:54] <rfowler> there needs to be more discussions like this
[14:55] <sil2100> Definitely, this session is too short for this
[14:56] <elmo> jamespage: cool, ta
[14:57] <elopio> thank you.
[14:57] <sil2100> Thanks guys
[14:57] <asac> sergiusens: the problem with powercycling is that we also need to push the button
[14:57] <asac> to start the phone
[14:58] <asac> unless we keep the boot partition free i think
[14:58] <asac> (on galaxy nexus)
[15:00] <sergiusens> asac: I tried the free boot partition thing, it won't pan out with image based upgrade image
[15:00] <asac> sergiusens: right. thats the problem
[15:00] <ogra_> relais ...
[15:01] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout link for Mir preformance improvements
[15:01] <ogra_> usb driver ... to glue onto the case
[15:01] <ogra_> *driven
[15:01] <sil2100> (brb in front of the cam)
[15:06] <sil2100> Let's spin this session
[15:07] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/34e6e37dab70881ef67b20d0acc417a82fed18e0?authuser=0&hl=en <- in case anyone wants to join in, hangout link
[15:13] <olli> the mentioned URL to compare Nexus and Nexus 4 - http://gfxbench.com/compare.jsp?D1=Google+Galaxy+Nexus+%28Samsung+I9250%29&D2=Google+Nexus+4&cols=2
[15:14] <john-mcaleely> do you have a feel for how to separate Mir performance from Unity8's? ie, how does UNity8 work on destop GL + Xmir vs UNity 8 on GLES/Touch?
[15:20] <john-mcaleely> Yes - I 'd like to be able to separate Unity 8 and Mir performance.
[15:21] <john-mcaleely> agreed on screen size changes!
[15:21] <john-mcaleely> (I made up the config to try to isolate Mir. It may make no sense - so thanks olli)
[15:22] <john-mcaleely> aha - so on desktop GL drivers, etc. Nice
[15:23] <john-mcaleely> (sorry, I didn't join the hangout - multitasking at my end in another hangout)
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> where's the link?
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> :-)
[15:28] <olli> in launchpad ;)
[15:28] <john-mcaleely> ha!
[15:29] <olli> kg is pulling it up
[15:29] <kgunn> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1303-mir-converged
[15:29] <john-mcaleely> thx
[15:31] <john-mcaleely> thanks kgunn olli sil2100 !
[15:31] <kgunn> john-mcaleely: your welcome...thanks for the questions
[15:32] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[15:32] <sil2100> Sorry for not being too active, so much things to do!
[18:01] <sil2100> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/638e314fae56e6bde09d491276807326e3b48472?authuser=0&hl=en <- hangout for people who want to participate
[18:44] <olli> is there any input re Mir roadmap from the audience
[18:45] <chiluk> is there any plan to backport 14.10 features into 14.04?
[18:45] <chiluk> in order to decrease support burden on xmir?
[18:47] <chiluk> you probably heard it from me.. I don't think it's really been answered
[18:47] <TheMuso> Is there going to be any form of multi-display output on our supported touch devices between now and 14.04?
[18:47] <TheMuso> i.e I'll be using a Nexus 10 for a11y development, and I'm  hoping to use the HDMI out on that with a monitor for easier development and workflow.
[18:48] <chiluk> thanks olli..
[18:48] <arges> any talk about wireless display technologies? such as intel widi? It would be pretty cool to be able to beam my phone's screen to a large monitor.
[18:49] <seepa> +1 arges
[18:49] <arges> obviously intel widi might not be a phone, but something similar.
[18:49] <chiluk> yeah that would be nice ..
[18:50] <arges> understood. cool
[18:50] <sil2100> Any other remarks?
[18:50] <chiluk> we are already partnered with intel
[18:50] <chiluk> right?
[18:51] <kgunn> see miracast
[18:53] <sil2100> Thanks everyone!
[18:54] <sil2100> olli: thankfully it wasn't a door or a door-frame ;) Bad luck, just had to damage myself right before UDS during the wekend


[00:00] <deviant> um
[00:00] <deviant> im having xserver issues
[00:00] <deviant> since installing the latest round of updates
[00:00] <deviant> anyone else having similar?
[00:03] <deviant> no?
[00:03] <Odd-rationale> deviant: what driver?
[00:03] <deviant> if you mean video, just software
[00:04] <deviant> havent installed nvidia-glx
[00:04] <deviant> from what i could see the updates were thunderbird <IP_ADDRESS> and libc
[00:04] <Odd-rationale> deviant: what kind of issues?
[00:05] <deviant> i just get a blue background with text saying the xserver couldn't start
[00:05] <deviant> and then the text login prompt appears
[00:06] <Odd-rationale> deviant: are you on another machine right now?
[00:06] <deviant> no booted using live cd
[00:06] <Odd-rationale> deviant: what version of ubuntu do you have installed?
[00:06] <deviant> its xubuntu 8.04.1
[00:07] <deviant> im using a lenovo 3000 n200 laptop
[00:07] <deviant> been working absolutely fine until this
[00:07] <Odd-rationale> deviant: can you go to /media/<disk>/etc/X11/xorg.conf and pastebin that file?
[00:07] <deviant> ill try yeah
[00:08] <Odd-rationale> here's the pastebin link:
[00:08] <Odd-rationale> !pastebin
[00:08] <Odd-rationale> deviant: note that is is /media/<disk>/etc/... not just /etc/
[00:13] <deviant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/51094/
[00:14] <Nillerz> !bye | deviant
[00:14] <Nillerz> Huh. I'll be.
[00:15] <Odd-rationale> deviant: have you tried booting into recovery mode and select: Fix broken xorg?
[00:15] <deviant> havent
[00:15] <deviant> how do i do that?
[00:17] <Odd-rationale> deviant: before grub loads, press esc. then choose recover mode for your kernel...
[00:17] <deviant> oh right, ill try it
[00:17] <deviant> thanks !:)
[00:18] <Odd-rationale> deviant: i gtg. ttyl.
[00:31] <Nillerz> Okay I still can't access folders on a windows computer
[00:31] <Nillerz> Any help?
[00:31] <Nillerz> !fusesmb doesn't work
[00:32] <Nillerz> I get connection timeouts
[00:37] <Nillerz> Every time I mount fusesmb and try to access teh directory I get an error stating the connection timed out
[01:43] <test3r> I forgot where the test releases are and would like to boot newest build. How do I find Intrepid Alpha 6???
[01:45] <test3r> wait sry found it
[01:45] <test3r> :)
[02:16] <nnull> im pretty sure it would be but i just wanna double check, its a bad idea to run a encrypted partition on a very low resource pc correct?
[02:30] <zoredache> it probably wouldn't work out to well...
[02:52] <nnull> yea i did last night, runs like a dog
[02:52] <nnull> like a dog i say
[02:53] <nnull> i need him running like horse not like dog, i cant put a saddle on a dog
[02:53] <nnull> or could i....
[03:20] <test3r> nnull >> IMHO: you can when it's running LUNIX core (more so with Debian, even!). Try to do it with Windows, and, you're right, it doesn't work.
[03:38] <Genelyk> o/
[04:48] <[biabia]> anyone do much printing of shell scripts or text files from the shell using lpr or cupsdoprint? i dont like the small thin default font but i cant figure out how to change it
[06:16] <flyback> collapses on the floor crying from the sound of mikey mouse having sex family guy
[06:38] <alec> i just installed xubuntu on an old mac and having some display problems
[06:48] <alec> how do i connect wirlessly using xubuntu, i just installed it
[07:59] <alec_> i need help, new to xubuntu, having display problems
[08:08] <TheSheep> alec_: any details?
[08:26] <alec_> i installed xubuntu feisty ppc, on an old mac g3, the install went fien, except the display is skewed, the left of the screen is blank.
[08:26] <alec_> someone told me to download displayconfig-gtk
[08:26] <alec_> i did this and it made the dislay much worse
[08:27] <alec_> but it seemed to be a suggestion in the right vein.
[08:30] <TheSheep> alec_: you don't download it, it's installed y default
[08:30] <TheSheep> alec_: but I don't know much about power pc versions of xubuntu
[08:31] <TheSheep> alec_: if it's feisty, you can try 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg' and set the right settings for your hardware there
[08:32] <alec_> TheSheep: I dont know anything, i believe that it wasnt installed, but i certainly couldnt be sure. i think i need to somehow set the display settings but im not sure how
[08:32] <TheSheep> alec_: it's possible it wasn't there in feisty yet
[08:33] <TheSheep> alec_: the command I gave you should alolow you to set the display settings
[08:33] <alec_> TheSheep: im new to linux so you will ahve to bare with me
[08:34] <alec_> TheSheep: do you have any suggestions for correcting the display being offset, and the top of the display running the bottom up the top. and i know that this hardly makes any sense
[08:35] <TheSheep> alec_: try openning the terminal and typing 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg'
[08:35] <TheSheep> alec_: then it will ask you for your password and let you configure your x server
[08:36] <alec_> TheSheep: ill try, when i installed displayconfig-gtk, if thats waht i did, i set the screen far less readable that it was. so its super hard to see,
[08:36] <alec_> i was planning on reistalling
[08:38] <alec_> its possible to boot straight to terminal is that correct?
[08:39] <TheSheep> alec_: you can also switch to terminal with alt+ctrl+f1, f2, f3, etc.
[08:40] <alec_> is there a key i can hold down during startup to open to terminal?
[08:41] <alec_> thank you for the help by the way
[08:42] <TheSheep> alec_: you can switch to terminal with already running system, with that alt+ctrl+f1. if you press esc while booting, you should also have a menu where you can select 'recovery mode' or somethng like that
[08:42] <TheSheep> but I'm not sure whther this powerks for ppc
[08:43] <TheSheep> !display
[08:43] <alec_> TheSheep: thanks, im giving it a try
[08:44] <alec_> thank you ubutto
[08:45] <TheSheep> !bot
[08:47] <alec_> i thought so
[08:48] <alec_> im not so familiar with irc etiquite. what does the ! point mean before something?
[08:49] <TheSheep> it's a command for the bot
[08:49] <Myrtti> its a command for the bot
[08:49] <Myrtti> !bot
[08:49] <TheSheep> !botsnack
[08:49] <Myrtti> !opsnack
[08:50] <alec_> irc is a weird and wild place
[08:50] <Myrtti> welcome ;-)
[08:50] <alec_> i feel so small and insignificant
[08:50] <TheSheep> that will pass
[08:51] <alec_> should i listen to this bot?
[08:51] <alec_> because i am
[08:51] <Myrtti> that one, yes
[08:51] <alec_> and a bot is?
[08:52] <Myrtti> a program running on a server handling some tedious repeating tasks
[08:52] <Myrtti> !info supybot
[08:52] <alec_> like my asking how to fix my display problem in xubunty feisty ppc
[08:53] <Myrtti> it knows only data given to it...
[08:54] <alec_> do you know anything more than data given to you? because the bot was wrong
[08:54] <TheSheep> well, that would be me being wrong
[08:55] <Myrtti> bot was wrong? hmmm.
[08:55] <alec_> oh
[08:56] <alec_> hey man, im just glad someone is helping me at 4 in the morning f with my decade old computer
[08:57] <alec_> its one of those its the thought that counts sort of things
[08:57] <Myrtti> its not 4am ;-)
[08:57] <Myrtti> 2008-09-27 10:57:57
[08:58] <alec_> where are you? it is for me
[08:58] <Myrtti> Finland, just woke up
[08:59] <alec_> oh! well, very nice, im in  new york
[08:59] <alec_> and its early
[09:00] <alec_> didnt you guys invent this linux?
[09:00] <TheSheep> no
[09:00] <alec_> well, i told you i didnt know anything
[09:00] <Myrtti> Linus started it, thats all
[09:01] <alec_> so no suggestions for display problems>
[09:01] <TheSheep> and many people before him,  like Stallman, Kerningham and Ritchie, etc.
[09:01] <alec_> ?
[09:01] <TheSheep> alec_: the dpkg-reconfigure thing didn't work?
[09:01] <Myrtti> that sudo dpkg-reconfigure should do it
[09:02] <alec_> well it did something that effected the problem i had, but it didnt fix it
[09:02] <Myrtti> you've uninstalled that gtkdisplayconf thing?
[09:03] <alec_> its hard to describe but the display was all there before but the bottom repeated at the bottom, and the left quarter was blank
[09:03] <alec_> now the screen is half the and smooched against the right side and theres more black
[09:04] <alec_> it seems to me it worked but in the wrong way
[09:04] <alec_> oh no i havent unistalled
[09:05] <alec_> i tried to reverse the command in terminal, but now i can hardly see the screen so who knows what i did
[09:05] <alec_> im like the high maintainance girlfriend arent i?
[09:07] <Myrtti> I wouldn't know :->
[09:08] <alec_> lucky
[09:08] <alec_> you should leave finland and come to NY they love guys over here who have a healthy linux habit
[09:09] <alec_> and im not kidding
[09:09] <alec_> or your not a guy.
[09:09] <alec_> opps
[09:09] <sulle> ftw
[09:09] <Myrtti> exactly ;-)
[09:09] <Myrtti> hi sulle
[09:09] <sulle> hi =)
[09:10] <alec_> oh not a boy. well the same goes for you
[09:10] <sulle> been up all night trying to find out what grub error 22 was and how to fix it. and it was realy easy when i found out.:P. hate beeing a unix noob :(
[09:11] <Myrtti> sulle: we've all been there...
[09:12] <alec_> does anyone who just came know how to fix a xubuntu display problem
[09:12] <alec_> ?
[09:12] <sulle> is it a wide screen?
[09:12] <alec_> sulle: no
[09:12] <alec_> its not displaying properly
[09:13] <alec_> i just installed on an old mac
[09:13] <sulle> how does it look?
[09:13] <sulle> what is the problem?
[09:13] <alec_> hard to describe
[09:14] <sulle> hmm
[09:14] <alec_> i can see part of the display, but the left quarter is blacked out and the top repeats at the bottom.
[09:14] <alec_> i cant describe it
[09:15] <sulle> what mac is it?
[09:15] <alec_> the folks above told me to try configdisplay-gtk and it effected it but not the way i wanted
[09:15] <alec_> an old ibook
[09:15] <alec_> i think a g3
[09:16] <alec_> old
[09:18] <sulle> Well i am a noob so i have no clue how to fix it. but do as i do and google it. Maybe we will find something.
[09:19] <alec_> thanks
[09:19] <alec_> i am very much a noob too
[09:19] <alec_> and i have
[09:19] <sulle> Have you posted the problem on ubuntu forums?
[09:20] <sulle> That might help you out alot.
[09:20] <alec_> ive spent like a week finding the distro and how to install it an so on
[09:20] <alec_> i have, but i am yet to reciecve a response. ill get there, it will jsut take some work
[09:21] <alec_> and it helps that i have the computer im on that runs ubuntu just fine
[09:21] <alec_> so its 11 in finland? lucky bastards
[09:21] <sulle> The shooting?, wasnt it 10 ?
[09:22] <knome> woot?
[09:22] <alec_> not me? you mean someone else?
[09:23] <sulle> what? i am confused.
[09:23] <knome> 11 what? the clock?
[09:23] <alec_> never mond
[09:23] <sulle> hahah
[09:23] <alec_> mind
[09:24] <sulle> oh sorry i am tierd as H*ll.
[09:24] <knome> np
[09:24] <sulle> Well its 10:24 here "norway".
[09:24] <knome> i'm still at bed
[09:24] <alec_> its 4:30 here
[09:24] <sulle> hmmm
[09:25] <knome> alec_, yes it is 11.-- in finland :)
[09:25] <alec_> hell yeah
[09:25] <alec_> thank you
[09:25] <knome> how come we are lucky bastards?
[09:25] <alec_> because its all nice and morning
[09:25] <alec_> dont you like morning?
[09:25] <knome> hah
[09:25] <knome> nope
[09:25] <alec_> no?
[09:25] <knome> nope
[09:25] <knome> i prefer night
[09:25] <alec_> fair enough
[09:26] <knome> and evening
[09:26] <alec_> well we can trade
[09:26] <sulle> ye night ftw
[09:26] <knome> the worst thing in the morning is that you have to get up from your bed
[09:27] <sulle> yup
[09:27] <knome> and i'm hungry
[09:27] <alec_> well, the leaving the bed is the problem, but its also good, because you cant say that its for shit... yet
[09:28] <sulle> When i get out of bed i start freezing and i just go to bed again. thats how i get l8 for work sometimes :(
[09:28] <knome> lol :D
[09:28] <alec_> cold in finland i assume
[09:28] <alec_> : P
[09:29] <knome> you get used to it
[09:29] <knome> and i prefer cold over warm
[09:29] <knome> :P
[09:29] <alec_> i dont
[09:29] <sulle> is it cold there now ?
[09:29] <knome> uooh
[09:29] <alec_> here?
[09:29] <alec_> no, just started cooling off
[09:29] <alec_> 70 or so
[09:29] <alec_> rained the last couplde
[09:29] <alec_> couple
[09:29] <sulle> here its fall and its not cold, its just raining.
[09:29] <knome> it was a damn hot day on thusrday here
[09:30] <sulle> i guess the snow is here in 1 moth or so :P
[09:30] <alec_> well then its the same. were heading into it. a little rain, the temp dropped then or so in the last week
[09:31] <sulle> well see you guys later, i got to take a shower and get me some food.
[09:31] <knome> see you and have a nice day
[09:32] <sulle> you 2
[09:32] <alec_> and then there were none
[09:33] <knome> bah
[09:34] <alec_> oh 2
[09:34] <alec_> so whats your excuse
[09:35] <knome> for what? ;)
[09:35] <alec_> i was being phecious.
[09:35] <alec_> is that spelled right?
[09:35] <knome> uh... don't think so
[09:36] <alec_> neither do i
[09:37] <alec_> its not even phoenitically spelled right
[09:37] <alec_> and neither is that
[09:37] <knome> lol :D
[09:37] <alec_> so your in finland
[09:37] <alec_> ?
[09:37] <knome> yes
[09:38] <alec_> never been
[09:38] <alec_> though that doesnt say much
[09:38] <knome> many people haven't
[09:38] <alec_> i think iwould like to
[09:38] <knome> we have lots of space :P
[09:38] <alec_> saw that movie pathfinder when i was a kid, im into it
[09:38] <knome> and depressed people
[09:38] <alec_> hahaa
[09:39] <alec_> we have that here
[09:39] <alec_> trust me
[09:39] <knome> in usa?
[09:39] <alec_> yes
[09:39] <knome> well i think in finland it's a bit different sort of depression
[09:39] <alec_> maybe
[09:40] <alec_> who knows
[09:40] <alec_> alls i know is we have pleanty
[09:40] <knome> you know, in winter you have only very little daytime
[09:40] <alec_> plenty
[09:41] <alec_> oh i know all about it, and in places like alaka (usa) : ) doctors will prescribe uv lights for depression because they have 6 months of dark
[09:41] <alec_> alaska
[09:41] <alec_> i meant
[09:41] <knome> yeah
[09:41] <knome> but i think you don't live in alaska? ;)
[09:41] <alec_> no
[09:42] <alec_> new york
[09:42] <alec_> but im from california
[09:42] <alec_> true but i still dispute the class of depression
[09:42] <knome> he
[09:42] <alec_> ?
[09:42] <knome> = heh ;)
[09:42] <alec_> oh
[09:42] <alec_> he
[09:42] <knome> so how is it like to live in NY?
[09:43] <alec_> :)
[09:43] <knome> do you live far from the "center"?
[09:43] <alec_> i live in a neighborhood of brooklyn called williamsburg. just across the river from anhattan
[09:43] <alec_> manhattan
[09:44] <alec_> so, very close to the"center"
[09:44] <alec_> in a neighborhood full of grownup children
[09:44] <knome> hmm
[09:45] <alec_> sort of like the island of lost toys only less endearing
[09:45] <knome> aren't they usually called adults? :P
[09:45] <alec_> far less endearing
[09:45] <alec_> very clever.
[09:46] <alec_> i guess were called adults now?
[09:46] <knome> hehe
[09:46] <knome> so how did you end up there?
[09:46] <alec_> well
[09:46] <alec_> i dont know
[09:46] <knome> x)
[09:47] <alec_> my best friend from highs school, noelle came here to go to some famous acting school
[09:47] <knome> and so you followed?
[09:47] <alec_> and i was back home doing stuff and i decided one day that i was going to go
[09:47] <knome> yayy
[09:48] <knome> so what do you do?
[09:48] <knome> study? work?
[09:48]  * TheSheep looks towards xubuntu-offtopic
[09:48] <alec_> and i called her up about three years after she moved and told her i was going to come visit her
[09:48] <knome> TheSheep, too lazy, we'll stop this is someone needs support ;)
[09:48] <knome> *if
[09:48] <TheSheep> knome: many peole read the backlog
[09:49] <alec_> "and she was like " yay" when and i said tomorrow
[09:49] <knome> TheSheep, oh, this was #xubuntu
[09:49] <alec_> so i came on a oneway ticket and thats all
[09:49] <knome> not -devel..
[09:49] <alec_> ?
[09:49] <knome> alec_, let's join #xubuntu-offtopic
[09:49] <alec_> ok
[10:05] <looping_> hello
[10:05] <knome> hello looping_
[10:06] <looping_> hi knome.
[10:06] <looping_> do you have trouble choosing a desktop? ;)
[10:06] <knome> nope? :)
[10:06] <looping_> or you're just a killer gnome... haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
[10:06] <looping_> sorry
[10:06] <knome> choose xfce.
[10:06] <knome> hah
[10:06] <knome> that was a referral to my nick, i see
[10:07] <knome> it's not a combination of kde and gnome
[10:07] <looping_> no problem, I didn't think it was
[10:07] <looping_> :)
[10:07] <looping_> just kidding.
[10:07] <knome> x)
[10:08] <knome> i used to be "emunkki", but then it was kind of clashing with "emonkey", a kubuntu guy
[10:08] <knome> so i thought that i'd just change back to this, my "normal" nick
[10:09] <looping_> I need help because although XFCE is quite lightweight, my 256MB of RAM have a hard time dealing with all the apps I use. I often get stuck while the computer just... get busy doing stuff I don't know about.
[10:09] <looping_> knome, ok
[10:10] <looping_> If I remember well, looping_ is my second nickname ever.
[10:10] <knome> have you looked at htop?
[10:10] <looping_> I used Beorn for a while, when I started using IRC but then a friend of mine nicknamed me looping, and I have been using it ever since.
[10:11] <knome> x)
[10:11] <looping_> looping, as in The A Team Murdock character. :p
[10:11] <looping_> htop, I know top. is it some variant of it?
[10:11] <knome> yes
[10:11] <knome> so what does top say when xubuntu is freezed?
[10:12] <looping_> it usually tells me that damn epiphany-browser is eating all the RAM because it has been running for more than 1 hour.
[10:13] <looping_> and this browser has the best light/usability ratio I found
[10:13] <knome> does it get back to normal if you kill epiphany?
[10:13] <looping_> definitely.
[10:14] <knome> have you tried midori?
[10:14] <looping_> because of all the Flash junk there is everywhere
[10:14] <looping_> midori sounds nice
[10:14] <TheSheep> it's not finished
[10:14] <TheSheep> there is also epiphany-webkit
[10:14] <TheSheep> but not finished either
[10:14] <looping_> yes, I saw that
[10:14] <looping_> that's why I am stuck.
[10:14] <TheSheep> we just have to wait fro google chrome :)
[10:15] <looping_> because I am kind of an end-user. incapable of compiling sources
[10:16] <knome> looping_, well compiling is usually easy as picking a candy from a children
[10:16] <looping_> knome ok :)
[10:16] <looping_> I am not english native, as you might have guesses. Did I use the word compiling correctly?
[10:16] <looping_> guessed*
[10:17] <knome> yes
[10:18] <looping_> thanks
[10:18] <knome> or actually, compile from sources
[10:18] <knome> i'm not a native english speaker either
[10:18] <looping_> haha
[10:18] <looping_> :)
[10:18] <knome> but the most important thing is that you're understood
[10:19] <looping_> knome, where are you from?
[10:19] <knome> finland
[10:19] <knome> i'll find something to eat ->
[10:20] <looping_> great, I am Swiss and I live in France
[10:20] <looping_> I am currently eating cereals
[10:29] <looping_> omfg, epiphany has been running for half an hour and is already using 80megs of RAM, god I hate gecko engine...
[10:31] <looping_> when I think about the beginning of mozilla. I was the only one using phoenix/firebird or kmeleon in college. they looked pretty neat. and now, look at these pile of junk-code.
[10:33] <looping_> when I try and ./configure midori, I get this "pkg-config cannot find webkit-1.0 >= 0.1" but I can't find this package in the repositories...
[10:39] <Myrtti> hm
[10:55] <nnull> i installed tightvncserver via synaptic, anyone tell me where id find the config file to edit?, couldnt find it in /et
[10:55] <nnull> -/etc*
[10:55] <jmota> hi all
[10:56] <alec_> can anyone halp me with a display issue in xubunu
[10:59] <knome> looping_, you need -dev packages
[11:00] <looping_> knome, I have them, or maybe I only think I have.
[11:00] <knome> that's possible
[11:01] <knome> anyway, midori 0.0.17 is on the repos
[11:01] <looping_> and the last version is 0.21
[11:02] <looping_> 0.0.21
[11:02] <knome> yes
[11:02] <looping_> I have the .deb debian package on my harddrive.
[11:03] <knome> of 0.0.21 ?
[11:03] <looping_> I try and install it but Gdebi can't find the package "unique"
[11:03] <looping_> yes, 0.0.21 package
[11:09] <sulle> see u guys l8tr.
[11:10] <looping_> ok, libunique can't be found by the installer
[11:10] <looping_> ...
[11:10] <knome> hmm
[11:10] <nnull> how do i search for files in xubuntu pls
[11:10] <nnull> i installed vnc server but i cant find it
[11:11] <looping_> I don't understand. it's the same problem either I try and install the debian package or compile from sources
[11:11] <favro> nnull: the config is a hidden folder in /home/you
[11:11] <looping_> and this unique/libunique package is impossible to find
[11:11] <nnull> favro¬ mmk i check
[11:12] <knome> looping_, i'm trying to build midori also
[11:13] <favro> !find unique
[11:14] <looping_> !find libunique
[11:14] <favro> doesn't help much tho
[11:14] <looping_> thanks anyway favro
[11:14] <looping_> :)
[11:14] <favro> :)
[11:14] <looping_> je suppose que to es francophone ?
[11:14] <looping_> tu*
[11:15] <nnull> favro¬ where abouts i still cant find it!
[11:15] <nnull> i also cant find any search for file option
[11:15] <favro> nnull: here it is .vnc in my home folder - ctrl+h to show hidden files
[11:15] <favro> in thunar
[11:16] <favro> nnull: I use terminal to search for new files - sudo updatedb && locate newfile
[11:17] <knome> looping_, http://live.gnome.org/LibUnique :P
[11:18] <looping_> knome, I want a packaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage. :')))
[11:18] <knome> it is a tar.gz package ;)
[11:19] <looping_> I will be 100years old before I can install a simple package on this machine...
[11:19] <looping_> :p
[11:19] <looping_> oh.
[11:19] <looping_> great
[11:19] <looping_> thanks
[11:19] <knome> you still need to compile it though :P
[11:19]  * knome is compiling webkit atm
[11:20] <looping_> raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
[11:22] <looping_> compiling unique right now
[11:23] <knome> yay for boobies
[11:23] <knome> i mean, compiling
[11:24] <looping_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/51217/
[11:24] <looping_> I am D-O-O-M-E-D...
[11:24] <knome> any other output?
[11:25] <looping_> no errors before this point.
[11:26] <knome> can you paste the complete output anyway
[11:28] <looping_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/51221/
[11:28] <looping_> here you are
[11:28] <looping_> with the ./configure output too
[11:28] <knome> thanks, let's see
[11:30] <knome> /usr/bin/install: cannot create regular file `/usr/local/lib/libunique-1.0.so.0.0.0': Permission denied
[11:30] <looping_> wtf, I am in sudo mode
[11:31] <knome> try to run sudo make install
[11:32] <looping_> oh, I get it. "sudo make && make install" maybe I would have worked with "sudo make && sudo make install"?
[11:32] <looping_> I will try what you say though
[11:32] <knome> yes, make doesn't actually need sudo but make install does
[11:35] <looping_> as far as I understand the output, it worked but "gdebi midori_xxx" gives me "Dependency is not satisfiable: libunique-1.0-0"
[11:35] <knome> >__<
[11:39] <looping_> "make[3]: [install-data-local] Erreur 1 (ignorée)" during unique install. why is this error 1 ignored? I don't get it
[11:39] <knome> usually ignoral of error is good :P
[11:40] <knome> otherwise you might end fixing something ;P
[11:41] <looping_> daoc? wow?
[11:41] <looping_> oops
[11:41] <looping_> wrong tab...
[11:41] <looping_> :p
[11:41] <knome> thou shall be forgiven
[11:41] <knome> lol
[11:42] <knome> webkit compiled
[11:43] <knome> compiling midori...
[11:43] <looping_> i thinking about resigning and using dillo.
[11:43] <knome> compiled.
[11:43] <looping_> :p
[11:43] <looping_> or elinks
[11:45] <Myrtti> I'm a bit confused why you are compiling it
[11:45] <knome> Myrtti, wants newest
[11:45] <looping_> Myrtti, no ubuntu packages for the last version of midori
[11:46] <Myrtti> not even in any ppa's?
[11:46] <looping_> can you explain ppa ? please
[11:46] <knome> personal package archive
[11:47] <looping_> ok
[11:47] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive
[11:47] <knome> :P
[11:47] <knome> but it's for intrepid
[11:47] <Myrtti> http://stemp.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/midori-0020-and-webkit-team/
[11:47] <Myrtti> knome: there's this little dropdown...
[11:47] <knome> lol
[11:47] <knome> :P
[11:47] <Myrtti> "ooh"
[11:47] <knome> yes
[11:48] <Myrtti> "now it's for hardy!"
[11:48] <knome> haha
[11:48] <knome> anyway, i got everything compiled
[11:48] <knome> but midori can't find libs
[11:49] <Myrtti> !Midori 0.0.21!
[11:49] <Myrtti> "Midori 0.0.21"
[11:50] <Myrtti> so which version are you compiling?
[11:50] <knome> 0.0.21
[11:50] <Myrtti> mine is midori - 0.0.21-1+git20080914~intrepidppa2
[11:50] <Myrtti> works like a charm
[11:51] <Myrtti> except for those bugs I'm aware of already
[11:51] <knome> aha!
[11:51] <knome> works
[11:51] <knome> self-built midori 0.0.21
[11:52] <looping_> midori 0.0.21-1+git20080914~hardyppa1
[11:52] <looping_> installing right now
[11:53] <looping_> middle-click no longer kills midori. nice. :)
[11:55] <looping_> are there any ad killers plugins yet
[11:55] <looping_> ?
[11:55] <looping_> oops.
[11:56] <Myrtti> prolly not
[11:56] <looping_> clicking on label in gmail kills midori.
[11:56] <Myrtti> for fun you can always try what happens if you try to enter a site with self signed ssl certificate
[11:56] <looping_> should convince me to change email adress
[11:57] <Myrtti> it's not yet properly handled
[11:59] <looping_> hey there's flash now.
[11:59] <looping_> I want a flash blocker.
[11:59] <looping_> :p
[12:00] <Myrtti> sudo aptitude remove --purge flashplugin-nonfree;sudo aptitude install swfdec-mozilla;
[12:00] <Myrtti> works++; ;-)
[12:11] <looping_> thanks Myrtti. I am about to try that
[12:18] <looping_> ok, I just installed swfdec and got rid of flash. nonetheless, when right-clicking flash content I still get adobe flash menu...
[12:19] <looping_> any idea?
[12:20] <looping_> although, midori now uses 20Megs of ram instead of 60
[12:20] <knome> looping_, did you restart midori?
[12:22] <looping_> yes
[12:22] <knome> did you purge nonfree?
[12:30] <looping_> yes i did
[12:39] <looping_> but I am pretty sure the falsh handler changed because of the low usage of ram
[12:53] <knome> omg, having a meeting w/ a client
[12:53] <knome> ...in IRC
[12:56] <looping_> knome, great.
[12:56] <looping_> :)
[12:57] <knome> hah, it is
[12:57] <knome> just waiting the client to arrive
[13:14] <nnull> i want my xubuntu box to be able to be sshable so i can run VNC through a tunnel, anyone know any good tutorials on doing this?
[13:17] <favro> !vnc
[13:18] <nnull> thx favro
[13:20] <nnull> im installing this on a low mem system, would i be better off using x11vnc you think?
[13:20] <nnull> !lowmem
[13:28] <supershoota> yo
[13:30] <supershoota> can you recommend me a drawing software that offers same functionality than fireworks or photoshop?
[13:32] <Myrtti> would gimp do?
[13:37] <knome> gimp is probably the far closest to photoshop
[13:37] <knome> you might also want to try inkscape
[13:39] <nnull> how come xubuntu runs gnome apps like tranmission etc
[13:41] <supershoota> nnull, just siynaptic it.
[13:41] <Myrtti> nnull: because most apps in xfce4 use gtk2
[13:41] <nnull> mk
[15:27] <DaveDixonII> Ugh, can someone help me?
[15:28] <Odd-rationale> DaveDixonII: why don't you start by asking your question? :P
[15:28] <knome> no, if you don't tell what the problem is
[15:28] <vidd> with what
[15:28] <Odd-rationale> lol
[15:28] <knome> we need a bot saying "just ask" or sth :P
[15:29] <DaveDixonII> xUbuntu keeps giving me errors like: space: 65520 wanted 65528 or it frezzes and i have to shut it down.
[15:29] <Odd-rationale> hey, vidd, i saw a while back that you were looking for the firmware for b43-fwcutter? have you found it? or still looking?
[15:29] <Steyn> if($irc->person->ask("help me")) {$irc->bot->say("just ask");{
[15:29] <vidd> i got it
[15:29] <Steyn> knome, something like that?
[15:29] <Odd-rationale> vidd: ok. great
[15:29] <Odd-rationale> you can give the !ask factiod...
[15:31] <knome> Steyn, yes
[15:31] <DaveDixonII> Hello?
[15:31] <knome> Odd-rationale, well... that still needs user (helper) interaction
[15:32] <DaveDixonII> My computer could freeze up any minute.  Can someone help me?
[15:32] <knome> Odd-rationale, and many people just will go away and have bad experience if nobody answers their question, and might stop using (x)ubuntu
[15:33] <knome> DaveDixonII, have you checked your memory for errors?
[15:33] <DaveDixonII> I have absolutly no clue how to do that
[15:33] <knome> on boot, you get the grub boot loader
[15:34] <knome> there should be an alternative "memtest"
[15:34] <DaveDixonII> Ok, what do i do if i have an error?
[15:35] <DaveDixonII> knome: What do i do if it has an error?
[15:35] <knome> http://www.memtest86.com/tech.html#trouble
[15:37] <DaveDixonII> How long does the test take?
[15:37] <knome> depends on the memory size, but it's not fast
[15:37] <knome> i must go
[15:37] <DaveDixonII> Ok, thanks. :)
[15:58] <Powertrip_> Good Day
[15:58] <vidd> hello Powertrip_
[15:58] <Powertrip_> Hows things going today?
[15:59] <vidd> it goes
[16:00] <Powertrip_> I am testing out the new hardy on a virtual machine, liking it so far.
[16:00] <vidd> new hardy?
[16:00] <Powertrip_> 8.04 xubuntu
[16:01] <Powertrip_> You run 6.06?
[16:02] <vidd> i run 8.04
[16:02] <vidd> but its not "new" its 5 months old
[16:03] <Powertrip_> It's new to me
[16:03] <vidd> hehe
[16:03] <Powertrip_> Only have one resolution though. probably that cursed Microsoft Virtual Machine
[16:03] <vidd> when ya said "new" i figured you might have meant 8.10 that is in testing
[16:04] <Powertrip_> I haven't dabbeled with the untested much, to much of a newbie
[16:05] <vidd> Powertrip_, why not run the live cd to get a "feel" for it?
[16:07] <Powertrip_> Well I have 6.06 on it's own PC up home. I use it for playing back my music collection but I mostly wanted to run it ontop of my windows box for chatting and testing out things like apache and vsftp. More for practice then anything, but with this 640 by 480 resolution I can't do much.
[16:08] <Powertrip_> My other 2 linux systems are thier own PC's and command line only etch boxes for firewall, dns and dhcp so I don't want to touch them (took me so long to get them working)
[16:48] <Powertrip_> Hey Emma
[16:49] <emma> hey there.
[16:49] <emma> How come Powertrip_ ? :)
[17:03] <vidd> Powertrip_, sorry...had calls that i had to take here at work....
[17:04] <vidd> the wonders of the live cd is you get to use the OS without monkeying up the existing stuff
[17:04] <vidd> no changes to harddrive, etc
[17:14] <supershoota> does phpeclipse works on xubuntu?
[17:18]  * flyback dies laughign again at the sound of mickey mouse humping on family guy
[19:28] <hansengel> Hi, I use a WiFi network that has two access points - one is close and with a strong signal; the other is far and has a weak signal. For some reason my adapter keeps selecting the weaker access point.. is there some way to restrict it to only one access point, maybe by ID?
[19:31] <vidd> hansengel, yes....manually configure the network
[19:31] <hansengel> vidd: But I don't see an option for an access point anywhere.
[19:31] <vidd> or, use wicd instead of nm
[19:31] <vidd> ?
[19:32] <vidd> right click on your network icon
[19:32] <hansengel> Okay..
[19:32] <vidd> choose "edit wireless networks"
[19:33] <vidd> are both networks listed there?
[19:33] <hansengel> No, that's not what I meant - there are two access points inside one WiFi network
[19:33] <hansengel> One upstairs, one downstairs
[19:34] <hansengel> In 'bssids' both used to be shown.. I already removed the ID of the access point downstairs
[19:34] <hansengel> but it still selects it
[19:34] <vidd> each one has a unique name....right?
[19:34] <hansengel> What do you mean?
[19:35] <vidd> if you have 2 access points with the same essid, then you cannot easily tell your system which to access
[19:35] <hansengel> Okay, that stinks :(
[19:35] <hansengel> I've tried using iwconfig, too.. it just switches back eventually
[19:35] <vidd> common sense tells you to give each access point a unique essid
[19:36] <vidd> next question....
[19:36] <vidd> does one have security and the other does not?
[19:36] <hansengel> Both have WEP 64bit
[19:37] <vidd> same key?
[19:37] <hansengel> yes
[19:37] <vidd> ok....do this
[19:37] <vidd> hold up....
[19:37] <vidd> how do these two access points connect to each other?
[19:37] <hansengel> The upstairs one plugs into a Ethernet port in the wall
[19:38] <hansengel> Same with the downstairs router, I think
[19:38] <hansengel> If this involves changing anything with the routers, it'll be a while - need to get permission first.
[19:39] <vidd> what kind of idiot set up 2 routers on the same network with the same essid's and the same keys?
[19:39] <hansengel> uh, no comment.
[19:40] <hansengel> :D
[19:40] <vidd> each router needs to have the essid uniqu
[19:40] <vidd> something like "upstairs" and "downstairs" will work fine
[19:40] <hansengel> Okay, thanks
[19:41] <JannoTT> What you do when your cheap noname pci wifi card does not show up in lspci?
[19:41] <vidd> otherwise, you need to configure your card to preform MAC Address association (happy hunting for howto's there)
[19:41] <hansengel> yikes. I think I'll just have the SSIDs changed
[19:41] <vidd> JannoTT, usb, pcmcia, or pci?
[19:41] <JannoTT> pci
[19:42] <vidd> JannoTT, power down, crack the case, seat the card properly, pray the card didnt get damaged, power back up
[19:42] <vidd> =]
[19:43] <JannoTT> Card works under windows so that cant be the case :(
[19:44] <vidd> then pastebin me the output from lspci
[19:45] <JannoTT> !pastebin
[19:46] <Natenjo> hey gues it there a way to make konqueror to my standard file browser in xubuntu??
[19:46] <Natenjo> (sorry im quite new to linux)
[19:46] <JannoTT> http://paste.ubuntu.com/51348/
[19:46] <vidd> yes
[19:47] <Natenjo> can you tell me how ;)??
[19:47] <vidd> Natenjo, Applications->settings->Settings Manager->Prefered apps
[19:47] <vidd> sorry....i type slow
[19:48] <vidd> JannoTT, line 16 is your wifi card
[19:48] <vidd> RTL-8185
[19:49] <JannoTT> rofl? realtek? it should be trendnet
[19:49] <vidd> realtek makes the CHIP....trendnet makes the CARD
[19:50] <Natenjo> @vidd: im there but were can i change the sittings r file borwser i can only see about mai and webbrowser^^
[19:52] <vidd> Natenjo, try this link (if you are on the xubuntu machine and you have the doc's installed) file:///usr/share/xfce4/doc/C/exo-preferred-applications.html
[19:52] <Natenjo> thx I'll have a look :)
[19:56] <Natenjo> sorry vidd i'm not getting quite wise out of that document.. it doesnt mention anything about the file browser (not the internet browser)
[20:10] <vidd> Natenjo, try the command exo-open FileBrowser konqueror
[20:11] <vidd> though....why you would want to use such a bloated app to look at files is beyond me
[20:11] <vidd> what are you doing that auto-launches thunar?
[20:15] <Natenjo> yeah maby your right vidd...i thougt i'd use it because it supports samba..and thuner doesnt afaik
[20:15] <vidd> so....when you want to use samba....call it
[20:17] <vidd> if you have something that is auto-launching thunar, right-click that item, choose "open with..." select "other application", check the box "set default"[or something simmilar] and choose "your bloated KDE app"
[20:17] <vidd> ...i mean konkorer
[20:17] <vidd> =]
[20:17] <JannoTT> hahaha bloated
[20:19] <vidd> JannoTT, your wifi up now?
[20:20] <JannoTT> nah. Im too lazy to go through all that ndiswrapper thingy
[20:20] <vidd> ndiswrapper?????
[20:21] <vidd> why not use the native driver?
[20:21] <JannoTT> there is no native driver
[20:21] <Myrtti> which card was this again?
[20:21] <vidd> i do believe there is
[20:21] <vidd> RTL-8185
[20:24] <JannoTT> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardwareSupportComponentsWirelessNetworkCardsTrendnet Say that my model TEW-423PI  has no driver and i gotta use ndiswrapper to get it working.
[20:25] <vidd> http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-wireless-networking-41/trendnet-tew423i-chip-rtl8185-linux-driver-found-618630/
[20:25] <vidd> says it works fine
[20:26] <vidd> dated march 08
[20:27] <vidd> that page hasnt been updated in forever
[20:28] <JannoTT> firefox just crashed :O
[20:41] <JannoTT> Oh crap. Cant build the module. http://paste.ubuntu.com/51367/
[21:03] <cheeseboy> can i use head to read a file until it finds an empty line?
[21:06] <cheeseboy> actually how i get part of file inbetween first two /*
[21:06] <cheeseboy> ?
[21:06] <knome> uhhh...?
[21:06] <knome> which language are you talking about?
[21:08] <cheeseboy> i just want to cat or grep a bunch of files to get eveything inbetween the first two times /* appears in each file
[21:09] <cheeseboy> so simple bash script or command
[21:10] <cheeseboy> get what i mean knome ?
[21:11] <knome> yes
[21:11] <knome> maybe this isn't the best channel to ask it, though
[21:11] <knome> do you know any scripting?
[21:12] <cheeseboy> nope
[21:24] <not_myself> Anyone in here know off the top of their head how to make kde apps & settings part of the saved session?
[21:24] <not_myself> konsole changes to white background every time I re-login, even though Ihave black background & white text for the default.
[21:26] <knome> not_myself, maybe ask #kubuntu
[21:26] <not_myself> I know it's a kde app, but I kinda like using it.
[21:26] <knome> ah, sorry
[21:26] <not_myself> I'm running xubuntu :)
[21:26] <knome> i think that has something to do with konsole
[21:26] <knome> not saved sessions
[21:26] <knome> sessions only save apps which are running
[21:27] <knome> try saving your settings in konsole
[21:27] <knome> btw, why use konsole and not xfce4-terminal?
[21:27] <not_myself> no, because I can type konsole, and it's the right color.
[21:27] <not_myself> I just got used to it.
[21:28] <not_myself> I like being able to bring down different shell types.
[21:28] <knome> ok, just curious
[21:28] <vidd> not_myself, why not set up xfce4-terminal to the same color scheme?
[21:28] <vidd> =]
[21:28] <not_myself> ok I'll play with it.
[21:29] <vidd> but to answer your question....
[21:29] <vidd> there should be a file stored somewhere with your settings saved
[21:30] <vidd> im not sure konsole does that (i never used it so i cant be 100% sure)
[21:30] <not_myself> ya it keeps a bunch of files in ~/
[21:30] <not_myself> .kde
[21:30] <vidd> do you have a .konsole file or folder in your ~/ folder?
[21:31] <vidd> items in .kde are not looked at by xubuntu.....
[21:31] <not_myself> ok
[21:32] <vidd> try copying your konsole file stored in the .kde file to the .config folder
[21:36] <not_myself> There's an idea.
[21:36] <not_myself> I think I'll get used to running xfce4's terminal
[21:37] <knome> xfce4-terminal is ++
[21:37] <not_myself> My only complaint with it really is just the position of the tabs.
[21:37]  * Myrtti huggles Terminator
[21:37] <knome> i used to use gnome-terminal for a while also
[21:37] <Odd-rationale> copying the konsole file to the .config folder probably wont work...
[21:37] <knome> Myrtti, o.O
[21:37] <Myrtti> whut
[21:37] <Myrtti> I've translated it
[21:38] <Odd-rationale> Myrtti: that requires gnome-terminal...
[21:38] <Myrtti> no it doesnt
[21:38] <Odd-rationale> are you sure?
[21:38] <Myrtti> since when has it required gnome-terminal?
[21:38] <Myrtti> well, doh. YES?
[21:38] <not_myself> at any rate ... time to program more widgets.
[21:39] <not_myself> It's probably something simple like $HOME not being set at the right time.
[21:41] <Odd-rationale> Myrtti: must have got that one wrong... looks likt you're right...
[21:42] <Myrtti> I've talked to Ng a lot about terminator and how I use it with xfce4
[21:42] <vidd> Odd-rationale, if copying the setup date to config wont store the info....what will?
[21:42] <vidd> *data
[21:43] <Odd-rationale> vidd: what setup data? konsole's setup data?
[21:43] <vidd> yes
[21:43] <Myrtti> terminator can import settings used by gnome-terminal, but it doesn't depend on them
[21:43] <Myrtti> I've got my own config file
[21:43] <Odd-rationale> vidd: copy that to ~/.config? I don't think xfce4-terminal can use that...
[21:43] <vidd> he wants konsole to use
[21:43] <vidd> it
[21:44] <vidd> konsole in xfce isnt pulling the config from the .kde
[21:44] <vidd> gggrrrr i hate this keyboard!
[21:45] <knome> hah
[21:49] <vidd> knome, you have any ideas on that?
[21:50] <knome> with konsole settings being saved in a session? no
[21:55] <not_myself> I'm ok, i'll survive :)
[21:55] <not_myself> xfce4-term is good.
[21:56] <not_myself> I'll get used to it.
[22:20] <not_myself> ok now I remember why I use konsole.  I can scroll up while text is being printed out, and it doesn't bounce back to the bottom.
[22:21] <not_myself> if a program is spitting text out.
[22:21] <not_myself> very useful for debugging.
[22:23] <not_myself> I guess ctrl-s will pause the output, but that can be a bad thing if you're dealing with an app like mplayer that will stop playing if it's not printing to stdout ...
[22:23] <TheSheep> it's an option in xfce4-terminal
[22:23] <TheSheep> and it doesn't scroll on output by default
[22:23] <TheSheep> as far as I remember
[22:28] <not_myself> oh ok.
[22:28] <not_myself> Thanks.
[22:28] <not_myself> I guess I missed that option.