[00:00] <pragmaticenigma> sonicx: If you are looking to literally install the older desktop environment, that is not something that is supported. Only the current software packages available in the repos for the version of Ubuntu you are using
[00:03] <sonicx> sorry if it seems like a stupid question just looking to see if it possible
[00:03] <sonicx> because I got my grandpa used to the gui I don't want to change it on him
[00:05] <Bashing-om> sonicx: The old unity is still maintained by the community . is in the universe repo. see ' apt show unity ' .
[00:07] <sonicx> thank you for the help
[00:29] <Klinda> it is the same problem I can't install  vbox http://dpaste.com/3KSHN6X
[00:31] <akem> Klinda, I would try to remove everything related to virtualbox then reinstall: sudo apt-get remove --purge virtualbox*; sudo apt-get install virtualbox
[00:32] <Klinda> why I have 2000 errors with the apt-get update?
[00:33] <akem> The warnings are just because of chrome google repo, you can safely ignore them.
[00:33] <pragmaticenigma> Klinda: Also... there is recommendation to include the package libvpx5 when installing virtualbox
[00:34] <Klinda> is better to create a dual boot or use a virtualbox at this point?
[00:34] <akem> I have both :P
[00:35] <akem> Rebooting is annoying, when you can just open a VM and keep everything running.
[00:36] <akem> Also with Virtualbox you can have several VMs with different OSes.
[00:37] <Klinda> I need also some tips to get a fast boot in the pc, seems an hd problem to me..
[00:37] <Klinda> to get the pc working I need 5 minutes
[00:38] <akem> What kind of PC is it?
[00:39] <Klinda> a good one with i5 processor
[00:43] <akem> Yeah, that's not normal, maybe you have some service that has some trouble when starting? i don't know... or maybe your hard drive has some issue like you said.
[00:44] <Klinda> is demsg a good to know if its an hd problem?
[00:44] <Klinda> command*
[00:45] <akem> Yes, and also the smartclt command i think.
[00:48] <Klinda> [ 1652.682000] kvm: disabled by bios
[00:48] <Klinda> that's a lot ?
[00:49] <Klinda> do you have to look a the time?
[00:49] <compdoc> enter the bios and enable it
[00:49] <akem> Klinda, I think you need to enable virtualisation support in your BIOS.
[00:50] <Klinda> D:
[00:50] <akem> Klinda, "On some hardware (e-g HP nx6320), you need to power-off/power-on the machine after enabling virtualization in the BIOS."
[00:50] <compdoc> the number is just the event id, and nothing to do with the error
[00:51] <Klinda> the number it isn't the time of the hd to process it?
[00:52] <ladyluna> No
[00:53] <compdoc> maybe it needs more context. thats from a log?
[00:54] <Klinda> http://dpaste.com/1RP9Z40 dmesg
[00:54] <Klinda> I know the number in [...] was the one to look
[01:45] <k_sze> Anybody else getting a "system program problem detected" window from update-notifier at every login?
[01:46] <k_sze> Similar to this question, except I'm already on Ubuntu 18.04 (GNOME, not KDE): https://askubuntu.com/questions/372963/why-does-update-notifier-contains-system-crash-notification
[01:52] <k_sze> It's safe to remove the files in /var/crash/, right?
[01:53] <BrUt4LM45t3R> Hi guys. Basic question for ya. I see most people do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade but I prefer to do sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade. Any reason why I should or shouldn't be doing this?
[01:59] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R: apt is now available: https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/
[02:06] <BrUt4LM45t3R> Bashing-om I am not asking about apt or apt-get. I am talking about upgrade and dist-upgrade
[02:17] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R: See; ' man apt ' -- By doing an "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" it will update packages and install new kernels as well as resolve package conflicts.
[02:26] <BrUt4LM45t3R> and what does sudo apt-get upgrade do that is different Bashing-om?
[02:30] <bluesj0t> Why is appearance setting not in ubuntu anymore ?
[02:30] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R:  "apt-get upgrade" will not deal with kept packages for an update, nor attempt fixing.
[02:32] <akem> k_sze, Yeah.
[02:33] <BrUt4LM45t3R> SO is it best to do sudo apt-get dist-upgrade always Bashing-om?
[02:35] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R: Well, I personally want to see what the package manager relates - so I run as ' sudo apt upgrade '. Then if the package manager reports a issue, I take action.
[02:37] <BrUt4LM45t3R> tahnks
[02:38] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R: Happy to help :D
[02:40] <BrUt4LM45t3R> so do you use apt over apt-get Bashing-om?
[02:41] <Bashing-om> BrUt4LM45t3R: Yup - Though there are some aspects of apt-get that apt does not replicate.
[03:41] <Loshki> Bashing-om: can you elaborate, or point me to a doc that discusses it?
[03:44] <Bashing-om> Loshki: Sorry - no context . clue me in ?
[03:47] <Loshki> Bashing-om: something entitled 'aspects of apt-get that apt does not replicate' was what I had in mind
[03:55] <Bashing-om> Loshki: Can not pull up anything specific but see: https://itsfoss.com/apt-vs-apt-get-difference/ ; http://www.howtogeek.com/234583/simplify-command-line-package-management-with-apt-instead-of-apt-get/ ; https://mvogt.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/apt-1-0/ .
[03:57] <Loshki> Bashing-om: excellent, thank you!
[03:58] <Bashing-om> Loshki: Thunderstorms - got to run.
[03:58] <Bashing-om> Thunderstorms - got to run.
[05:44] <Hamilton> Where are app tray icons stored? I want ti fix this : http://i.imgur.com/qd8uPuu.png
[05:50] <isomari> greetings, when installing 19.10, /var/log/syslog reports: "no matching physical volumes found". Yet I can escape to the terminal and maually mount the destination drive partitions.
[06:47] <OnceMe> I have two monitors, how can I disable second monitor, so that I can easily switch between my desktop and laptop, so that I dont need to mess with cables?
[07:16] <triptec> I'm having some trouble running lxd and then docker in a lxd container, it works but it's slow to build docker images. Is there anyone who is using btrfs or other that zfs as a storage backend for lxd?
[08:25] <zetheroo1> since installing the latest version of Chrome (Version 80.0.3987.149 (Official Build) (64-bit)) it keeps crashing. This is the output from starting Chrome in the Terminal until it crashes https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7NdfTsGJN5/
[10:13] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[10:16] <oerheks> hi BluesKaj
[10:17] <BluesKaj> hey oerheks
[11:09] <egrain> headless box, how do i share printer? i guessing samba, but maybe there's a better way.
[11:09] <oerheks> like on your desktop, localhost:631 ...
[11:10] <pragmaticenigma> egrain: CUPS can directly share printers
[11:11] <egrain> pragmaticenigma, like so: https://www.cups.org/doc/sharing.html ?
[11:12] <pragmaticenigma> egrain: you can do it that way, but the "http://localhost:631" is easier to configure and setup
[11:15] <egrain> how easy is that? i have  to admit i'm truly amazed.
[11:15] <egrain> thanks.
[11:38] <Mibix> crap if i deleted something as root in nemo is there a way to get it back
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> Mibix: deleted 'something'
[11:40] <Mibix> a file?
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> yes?
[11:40] <firewire1394> hi
[11:40] <Mibix> ...
[11:40] <Mibix> where are you getting confused
[11:40] <lotuspsychje> Mibix: wich file?
[11:40] <Mibix> any file
[11:40] <akem> Mibix, Maybe with "extundelete"
[11:41] <jjbuggle> I've set up samba to transfer files from linux to mac, over wifi ethernet.  It works, but it is unreliable.  Any alternatives that someone could recommend?
[11:45] <BluesKaj> jjbuggle:  ssh ?
[11:45] <jjbuggle> BluesKaj: I've never set that up.  Is it hard?  Would I just google search how to set up an ssh server?
[11:46] <BluesKaj> jjbuggle: https://osxdaily.com/2017/04/28/howto-ssh-client-mac/
[11:46] <jjbuggle> BluesKaj: cool, thx.  I'll check it out
[11:49] <[twisti]> any way i can see which packages were install when ? i installed a bunch of crap today that i need to get rid off, and i would prefer not having to scroll through my bash history
[11:50] <lotuspsychje> [twisti]: dpkg logs
[11:50] <BluesKaj> jjbuggle: this tutorial might be closer to what you're looking for https://osxdaily.com/2016/08/16/enable-ssh-mac-command-line/
[11:53] <[twisti]> thanks lotuspsychje
[11:53] <[twisti]> wait, no, that just says "dpkg: error: need an action option"
[11:54] <lotuspsychje> [twisti]: /var/log/dpkg
[11:54] <viktor_> i keep getting below msg at every terminal command. not sure what to do about it?
[11:54] <viktor_> man: can't set the locale; make sure $LC_* and $LANG are correct
[11:54] <[twisti]> no such file or directory. im on LTS 16 if that matters
[11:55] <[twisti]> nm, found them - /var/log/apt/term.log
[11:57] <geirha> viktor_: LANG or one of the special LC_ environment variables contain a locale that doesn't exist. You need to either set them to one that exists, or generate the one they're trying to use. A paste url with the output of ''locale; locale -a''  could be helpful. locale shows what the values are set to, locale -a shows a list of available locales.
[11:59] <egrain> the share printers on the localhost:631 page, i have to create a class, right? i did. but windows said can't be found.  oh, and if i go printer manage/configure it says "no network sharing".
[12:00] <viktor_> geirha: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/TG4qTchYc2/
[12:01] <geirha> so those en_BE.US-ASCII entries are probably what it's complaining about
[12:02] <egrain> do i need samba after all to share the printer?
[12:02] <geirha> as well as en_US.US-ASCII
[12:02] <egrain> with windows i mean.
[12:03] <viktor_> geirha: so, i just change those to UTF-8? are those file in the root part or the user part?
[12:04] <geirha> viktor_: yes, but en_BE.UTF-8 doesn't exist either, so either you have to generate that one or change it to en_US.UTF-8 as well.
[12:04] <geirha> viktor_: They could be set globally from /etc/default/locale or locally in ~/.pam_environment or ~/.profile. You'll have to look around a bit
[12:06] <viktor_> geirha: just tried to change in GUI sys setting, will log out-in for a moment
[12:37] <viktor_> geirha: it seems my sys doesn't install any locales after i select them in setting, for some reason. So can i just uncomment all the UTF-8 lines of the languages/localisations i want in /etc/locale-gen and then run that?
[12:40] <viktor_> is their harm / gain in also uncommenting other formats? (ISO-8859,...)
[12:42] <geirha> no harm, just takes up a little more space. You run   sudo locale-gen  to have the uncommented lines in /etc/locale-gen actually generated
[12:48] <Captain_Proton> installed the snap version for the store, but it does sync the two calendars I have configured. Where can I find the commands I need to run so it has access
[12:48] <Captain_Proton> sorry gnome -calendar
[13:05] <mra90> how can I check if my ubuntu supports USB -serial communication
[13:05] <mra90> I don't see any usb device in /dev/tty*
[13:14] <akem> mra90, Why would it?
[13:14] <akem> wouldn't*
[13:14] <Sven_vB> mra90, my USB uart shows up as /dev/ttyUSB0. don't be fooled by missing tab completion for screen.
[13:14] <Captain_Proton> how do I get snap gnome-calendar to see my two configured calendars?
[13:15] <Sven_vB> mra90, if it doesn't show up, observe syslog and dmesg while you plug it in
[13:15] <Sven_vB> mra90, reading again ??? did you actually connect a USB serial adapter?
[13:17] <Sven_vB> mra90, support for a lot of those is baked in by default in the generic and lowlatency ubuntu kernels nowadays. a few minutes ago I used a USB uart on a 14.04 trusty machine with linux-image-4.2.0-42-generic.
[13:19] <mra90> Sven_vB, what device have you connected to USB port so ttyUSB showed up?
[13:20] <Sven_vB> mra90, some cheap generic USB uart from Amazon. lsusb thinks it is a "10c4:ea60 Cygnal Integrated Products, Inc. CP210x UART Bridge / myAVR mySmartUSB light"
[13:21] <mra90> okay I will try that also
[13:21] <Sven_vB> mra90, I'd just get like four of them from different vendors, at those prices you can't go too wrong, and by the time they arrive (from China to me takes several weeks) probably at least 2 of them will work.
[13:26] <Sven_vB> The touchpad on my Acer Aspire SW5-012 no longer works. using Xenial here. I thought it was the kernel update, but even using linux-image-4.15.0-91-lowlatency which worked fine the entire week, now cannot move the cursor or click. I tried pressing the Fn + Disable Touchpad key combo to toggle that, but it seems to have no effect. xinput shows the Touchpad and the "Mouse and pointer devices" settings show it as enabled. any ideas?
[13:28] <Sven_vB> thanks. IRC effect. :-) now my 8th attempt at separating and reconnecting top and bottom shell, finally made it work again.
[13:30] <viktor_> geirha: it's working now. thanks for getting me underway.
[13:30] <geirha> viktor_: Glad to hear :)
[13:33] <viktor_> geirha: actually, now i get an error message every time i log in again about lanuage packages not installed
[13:33] <viktor_> /var/cache/apt/archives/kde-l10n-th_4%3a4.10.97-0ubuntu1_all.deb
[13:33] <viktor_> trying to overwrite '/usr/share/locale/th/LC_MESSAGES/kcminfo.mo', which is also in package kinfocenter 4:5.12.8-0ubuntu0.1
[13:33] <viktor_> and then that one
[13:34] <bluesj0t> How do you turn off mouse acceleration? Was it in the xorg file?
[13:35] <geirha> viktor_: Hm. That sounds like a bug in one of those packages, not related to your choice of locale
[13:35] <viktor_> geirha: can i get rid of kinfocenter without breaking something?
[13:36] <lotuspsychje> bluesj0t: checkout dconf-editor
[13:36] <viktor_> geirha: yes, this is some kind of recurring bug in kubuntu
[13:37] <geirha> I'm not very familiar with kde and its utilities. Might be better to ask #kubuntu about that
[13:38] <lotuspsychje> viktor_: maybe BluesKaj knows?
[13:39] <Sven_vB> I booted linux-image-4.15.0-92-lowlatency again and there the touchpad still doesn't work, even after lots of reconnecting it. keyboard and HDD work fine though, so at least the USB dock plug works. how to debug?
[13:39] <Captain_Proton> I even remove and readded them through snap gnome-calendar and they still do not show up
[13:41] <pragmaticenigma> Captain_Proton: There might be a permissions issue... any reason that you are using the snap version?
[13:41] <dxc> howdy folks, getting this on login with landscape-sysinfo as part of my motd... https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/Gjfq4TMc47/
[13:41] <Sven_vB> syslog and dmesg look normal
[13:41] <dxc> brb
[13:41] <BluesKaj> viktor_: sorry I have no idea\
[13:41] <BluesKaj> never seen that before
[13:42] <Sven_vB> viktor_, you could try to dpkg-divert that file so you get both of them, then try which of them works better.
[13:43] <viktor_> BluesKaj: when i log there's a pop-up that language packages are missing, when i click to install this message follows
[13:43] <viktor_> BluesKaj: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MBxv4WGbvh/
[13:44] <Captain_Proton> Newer 3.30.0 and I was hoping it does Biweekly recurring appt. the normal app 3.28.3 does not
[13:44] <Sven_vB> dxc, it seems to be a bug in that landscape/sysinfo/sysinfo plugin.
[13:45] <dakar> Sven_vB i had something similar with linuxmint some time ago. playing with too much even made my keyboard not to respond. i ended up reinstalling, but i didnt have anything too important there.
[13:45] <pragmaticenigma> Captain_Proton: Instead of hoping... perhaps look at release notes... I would recommend putting things back the way they were
[13:45] <dakar> everything started to collapse when i installed some kde related packages and some xorg-server packages.
[13:46] <dakar> i cant help you, but this may be useful for you
[13:46] <Sven_vB> dakar, you mean about the touchpad not working?
[13:46] <dxc> Sven_vB - 'whee', any way I can find out what plugin it is? I looked at the error, but unless I'm blind I don't see it
[13:46] <dakar> Sven_vB yes. first the touchpad stopped working and then the keyboard
[13:47] <dakar> on a different topic, does anyone else feel like every linux gui is slow and not as smooth as windows'?
[13:47] <lotuspsychje> dakar: please no general linux polls here
[13:47] <Sven_vB> dxc, I know it is not /usr/lib/python3.6/encodings/ascii.py , and all the other files mentioned are in /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/landscape/ , so I'd say it's the landscape thingy.
[13:47] <dxc> okay.
[13:48] <dakar> lotuspsychje okay. does anyone else feel like every ubuntu gui is slow and not as smooth as windows?
[13:48] <lotuspsychje> dakar: no ubuntu polls neither
[13:48] <pragmaticenigma> dakar: This is a support channel, not a discussion channel... Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for general discussion
[13:48] <Sven_vB> dakar, just uninstall some less usefull services and you'll have enough system resources free. also try a lowlatency kernel maybe.
[13:48] <dakar> okay. why the heck is my kubuntu's gui so damn slow?
[13:48] <Sven_vB> dakar, because of KDE
[13:48] <dakar> it was worse with unity.
[13:48] <Sven_vB> dakar, try XFCE
[13:49] <dakar> xfce is too bare. i don't like it.
[13:49] <lotuspsychje> Sven_vB: dont feed offtopic polls please
[13:49] <Sven_vB> dakar, also disable some fancy effects like window compositing
[13:49] <dxc> guess I can report the bug, as soon as I can remember my launchpad login, lol
[13:49] <BluesKaj> dakar:  you're very close to trolling here, take your comments elsewhere
[13:50] <Captain_Proton> pragmaticenigma, that cool I will go back to Thunderbird
[13:51] <bitblit> please recommend a console maildir client. thx.
[13:51] <pragmaticenigma> bitblit: For software recommendations, please ask in #ubuntu-offtopic ... thx.
[13:51] <Sven_vB> dxc, as a hacky workaround, you could try to dpkg-divert /usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/landscape/sysinfo/processes.py, then make a copy of it with these lines added near the top: https://paste.debian.net/plainh/55f8be9e
[13:53] <Sven_vB> dxc, nah sorry, that would only work in a module that uses stdout directly
[13:53] <Sven_vB> maybe you can find one with a line like "from sys import stdout" then add it there, below
[13:54] <dxc> Sven_vB - It...stopped doing it
[13:54] <dxc> so...problem solved? lol.
[13:55] <dxc> I'll actually make a bug report if it happens again.
[13:55] <dxc> or rather, if it happens consistently
[13:55] <dxc> thanks for the attention, at least o/
[13:56] <Sven_vB> grats, and good luck :)
[13:56] <dxc> Like magic!
[13:56] <Sven_vB> yeah, IRC effect, like with my touchpad earlier. (at least for the old kernel)
[13:56] <dxc> Ha!
[13:56] <dxc> yeah
[13:56] <dxc> anyway, have a good one
[13:57] <Sven_vB> and now my touchpad can at least click even on linux-image-4.15.0-92-lowlatency
[13:58] <lotuspsychje> Sven_vB: dont use this channel for every step you try, ask a question, then patiently wait till volunteers know the answer
[13:59] <Sven_vB> lotuspsychje, ok :)
[14:11] <netcrash> Hello, where can I find ubuntu live?
[14:11] <lotuspsychje> !download | netcrash
[14:14] <netcrash> !Eoan
[14:14] <netcrash> lotuspsychje:
[14:15] <lotuspsychje> netcrash: you want to test an ubuntu-desktop live?
[14:16] <oerheks> all desktop iso's have the live function too
[14:17] <oerheks> 18.04 gives also daily builds
[14:22] <netcrash> lotuspsychje: yes
[14:22] <netcrash> oerheks: ok, will test then
[14:22] <netcrash> thank you all
[14:22] <lotuspsychje> netcrash: https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
[14:31] <netcrash> lotuspsychje: thank you
[14:31] <lotuspsychje> happy testing
[14:46] <Kostas79> I am experiencing problems with sound on an Acer Swift 5 (SF514-54T) running Ubuntu 18.04.4. Soundcard shows as "dummy output" and there is no sound. Any ideas?
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: wich kernel are you on please
[14:48] <Kostas79> Iotuspsychje: How do I check that?
[14:48] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: uname -a
[14:49] <Kostas79> Iotuspsychje: 5.3.0-42-generic
[14:50] <genii> Or -r for just kernel version ;)
[14:50] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: yeah, there's a recent bug going for -42 on alsa, see if you can make it work with a previous kernel version
[14:51] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: there's a few several bugs on it, bug #1868085 for example
[14:52] <oerheks> i read a fix for audio ? https://askubuntu.com/questions/1218041/ubuntu-18-04-audio-disappeared-after-update/1218063#1218063
[14:52] <Kostas79> Which version should I get? I was also experiencing problems with the microphone before (was not detected at all).
[14:52] <oerheks> somewhat related with HP and ACER iwlwifi bug..
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> -40 should work and also -43 from proposed
[14:57] <Kostas79> Is there an easy way to revert to the -40 (I do not have grub)?
[14:58] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: what do you use for bootloader?
[14:58] <genii> ^
[14:59] <Kostas79> Iotuspsychje: It boots directly to Ubuntu without showing the usual grub2 options
[15:00] <genii> Grub is probably still there but you see the menu because you only have one OS
[15:00] <genii> dont see
[15:00] <adac> is there actually a shortcut for pasting strings that I have marked/copied with middle mouse button?
[15:01] <adac> *that I have marked/copied only with mouse by selecting
[15:01] <adac> sorry for the confusion
[15:02] <genii> Kostas79: I forget which key is supposed to be specifically for showing the grub menu at boot, it might be ESC.. but you can also get into it by the up or down arrows
[15:03] <Kostas79> I had only one OS in my previous laptop and it used to show the menu. I checked grub.cfg now and changed hidden to menu.
[15:04] <Kostas79> I guess that will do the trick?
[15:06] <oerheks> hold shift or esc during boot, and it shows up
[15:07] <Kostas79> Thanks!
[15:07] <lotuspsychje> Kostas79: after entering grub, you can bootup a previous kernel to test
[15:09] <genii> Kostas79: Instead of directly editing the auto generated grub files, best practice is to only edit the /etc/default/grub and then issue sudo update-grub
[15:10] <pgnd> Kostas79: if editing grub config, see GRUB_TIMEOUT_STYLE param. =menu vs =countdown might be of interest.  fyi, https://askubuntu.com/questions/1083904/how-can-i-display-the-grub-during-boot
[15:12] <Kostas79> Thanks! Let me reboot and see what happens.
[16:06] <Kostas79> How do I access the grub menu while booting? I tried ESC but does not work.
[16:07] <hggdh> Kostas79: if allowed by the configuration, left shift usually works
[16:08] <Kostas79> I tried left shift and does not work either.
[16:18] <BluesKaj> Kostas79:  you have to hold the key down until grub appears
[17:06] <Bromite> why can't i connect to an app running on port :8080 of my server?
[17:06] <Bromite> i allowed the port using ufw
[17:06] <Bromite> not sure what else i have to do
[17:06] <Bromite> (can't access it from outside is the issue)
[17:07] <oerheks> 'outside' is on your local network? or from the WWW?
[17:07] <Bromite> oerheks: outside as in from the VPS's ip or domain
[17:07] <Bromite> locally (inside the vps) i can access it fine
[17:08] <oerheks> so, you need to forward that port in your router to your service
[17:08] <oerheks> *too
[17:10] <pragmaticenigma> VPNs usually create a unique subnet and don't share the same subnet of the network. Wherever the VPN server is, it needs to be setup to allow access to the local network
[17:10] <pragmaticenigma> Bromite: ^ ^
[17:10] <Klinda> Hello I need to resize the partition you see in there, cause I want to make space for windows, I tried to install the gparted live program but I can't seems to resize the big one partition https://imgur.com/a/zCpiSHn
[17:11] <oerheks> to resize, grow, you can do it from installed ubuntu. th shrink, one need to boot a live iso, ubuntu or gparted live
[17:12] <Klinda> ?
[17:12] <oerheks> so you want to shrink
[17:12] <Klinda> like 300 gb each
[17:13] <Klinda> but I can only shrink this 600 gb partition only with 17 mb lol
[17:14] <Klinda> I flash the iso into an usb and run gparted but seems I can't shrink more
[17:15] <oerheks> wait, i see, you have chosen LVM, that takes the whole disk.
[17:15] <oerheks> not possible, AFAIK
[17:16] <longstride> Is anybody here using 20.04?
[17:16] <Klinda> I need to format all oerheks ?
[17:16] <bluesj0t> Didnt know there was a 20.04 lol
[17:16] <oerheks> longstride, maybe, support and questions in #ubuntu+1 until release, please
[17:17] <longstride> will do, thanks!
[17:17] <oerheks> Klinda, yes, start all over again; and ubuntu strongly suggests to start with windows first.
[17:18] <oerheks> choose non encryption, and no lvm
[17:19] <Klinda> the real problem of linux is that only few devs develop for it, I do a dual boot only for a paid tv app
[17:19] <al3xandr0s> hello room
[17:19] <Klinda> I used the vm but kinda like so slow
[17:20] <al3xandr0s> the best solution for backup hosting server ?
[17:21] <bluesj0t> I wiped windows lol dont care for it
[17:21] <bluesj0t> I dont use my computer for work or anything like that no need for it, and my only pc is an ideapad games are out of question.
[17:23] <lordcirth__> bluesj0t,  There are some Linux games you can run on nearly anything
[17:24] <bluesj0t> lordcirth__: yeah but saying because my lenovo ideapad is so weak I dont need an os to use for games that's why I stick with just linux
[17:26] <bluesj0t> I might take my laptop apart and install it into my huge office desk I got for free as a project while I'm in isolation
[17:31] <sveinse> Where does xrandr find the displays it shows (connected or not)?
[17:37] <Klinda> oerheks, what's the lighest distro for a laptop?
[17:38] <Klinda> that will run smoothly
[17:42] <pgnd> Klinda: it's less a question of distro, and more of which Desktop Environment
[17:46] <Bromite> pragmaticenigma: thanks
[17:46] <Bromite> oerheks: also thanks
[17:49] <Klinda> pgnd, which Desktop enviroment I should use?
[17:50] <coconut> the one you like Klinda
[17:50] <pgnd> Klinda: ^^
[17:50] <oerheks> !flavors
[17:50] <oerheks> mat, xubuntu are pretty lightweight
[17:50] <pgnd> KDE/Gnome are 'fatter'; xfce less so, etc etc
[17:51] <Klinda> I mean it just takes 5 minutes to just start up the system
[17:51] <oerheks> lubuntu or openbox for single cores
[17:51] <coz_> Mate DE is good
[17:51] <Klinda> so is there a chance if I nstall another distro that will improve it
[17:51] <Klinda> or dekstop enviroment
[17:51] <oerheks> kde is what gnome+tweaktools does together, complete.
[17:52] <pgnd> startup is a different issue.  investigate what's in your startup sequence ... using, e.g., systemd-analyze.
[17:52] <Klinda> also open up a chrome broswer takes times
[17:52] <Klinda> probably I am used to a ssd
[17:52] <Klinda> in the laptop I have only the hd
[17:53] <pgnd> throwing hardware at the problem is not the only solution; optimization requires effort unique to your system. but can win significant benefits.
[17:54] <pgnd> _every_ distro/DE out-of-the-box comes with some fat each user likely doesn't need
[17:54] <blatv> I need help. Is it possible to install ubuntu (Full version) on a USB drive when running Ubuntu already? I dont have another drive to have the setup boot run from. Hence the question. (I hope it is okay to ask here. Im new to this place o.o )
[17:54] <Klinda> will a dual boot suffer from speedup for example?
[17:58] <pgnd> google's your friend: https://itsfoss.com/speed-up-ubuntu-1310/
[17:58] <tuxiano> Hi, I would like to boot a specific kernel verion on ubuntu server on a raspberry. Any hints how this works? I'm used to grub, which is not installed/used on this ubuntu version.
[18:00] <sveinse> Where can I find the xorg logs for the _current_ xorg session I'm using? Is that the ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log ?
[18:00] <sumagna> Klinda i am using ubuntu in dual booting with windows
[18:00] <sumagna> there is no problem in ubuntu with speed
[18:01] <sumagna> its speed actually much more than i expected with the hardware i have on this laptop
[18:01] <pgnd> tuxiano: not clear what your setup is ... RPi + grub2 is certainly doable. fyi -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/RaspberryPi#Generic_kernel_with_grub2
[18:05] <waveform> tuxiano, sudo flash-kernel --force <kernel-version> is probably what you want (assuming that kernel version is installed)
[18:06] <tuxiano> pgnd: sorry, rpi3b+ ubuntu 18.04.4 (64bits) from https://ubuntu.com/download/raspberry-pi
[18:07] <tuxiano> waveform: thx, will try that now
[18:07] <pgnd> tuxiano: tried installing grub2?
[18:09] <waveform> I wouldn't ...
[18:09] <tuxiano> pgnd: no, still not. I assumed, that is not possible.
[18:10] <tuxiano> waveform: I get an error: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/58pn26GMvX/
[18:11] <tuxiano> I installed the according kernel before
[18:11] <pgnd> tuxiano: did you read the link^ ?
[18:12] <tuxiano> pgnd: no, because I want to try the approach from waeform before
[18:12] <waveform> tuxiano, does that kernel have the device-trees for the pi in it?
[18:12] <sveinse> have anyone here any experience with nvidia+intel hybrid problems with detecting screen ports on newer kernels?
[18:13] <waveform> tuxiano, usually they're under /lib/firmware/<version>/device-tree/ so I'd have a look under there first
[18:13] <tuxiano> I think so
[18:14] <waveform> tuxiano, (that's what it's complaining about not finding - the DTBs are the compiled device-trees)
[18:14] <pgnd> many ways to the mountain.  me, generally lazy and choose the simpler one ...
[18:15] <tuxiano> waveform: I think everything is there
[18:15] <tuxiano> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/hyFdWcwJ6g/
[18:15] <waveform> tuxiano, can you ls broadcom under there?
[18:16] <tuxiano> waveform: it just lists: ns2-svk.dtb
[18:16] <waveform> tuxiano, ahh ... you should have bcm2710-rpi-3-b-plus.dtb (and a host of others) under there
[18:17] <tuxiano> waveform: that means this kernel is not compatible ...
[18:17] <waveform> tuxiano, yup - that likely means that kernel lacks the pi patches
[18:18] <tuxiano> ok ... thank you
[18:18] <tuxiano> great support
[18:27] <sastek> Hi, I need a bit of help setting a static IP address on Server 18.04, cloud-init is new to me. The install is on a Windows 10 Hyper-V VM
[18:28] <ioria> sastek, https://graspingtech.com/ubuntu-server-18.04-static-ip/
[18:32] <sastek> thanks, so looks like just disabling cloud-init is the way to go?
[18:34] <sastek> I tried setting the IP in the .cfg file in cloud.cfg.d, but it did not update the netplan .yml file after a reboot
[18:36] <ioria> sastek, you use cloud.cfg to change some  parameter, like  "preserve_hostname"
[18:36] <ioria> *s
[18:39] <sastek> ok, thanks
[18:40] <sastek> Ok, thanks
[18:44] <theborger> anyone know what to type to open "software" as root from command prompt?
[18:45] <theborger> if i do software nothing opens of course. so not sure what to type to get it to run
[18:46] <ioria> theborger, maybe, you mean 'gnome-software' ?
[18:47] <theborger> ioria: this  https://i.imgur.com/1J6QpNP.png
[18:47] <ioria> theborger, it's  'gnome-software'
[18:48] <ioria> theborger, try   pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY  gnome-software
[18:50] <theborger> ioria: thanks
[18:50] <ioria> theborger, ok
[19:06] <egrain> i added the printer, it all seems fine. but when i print it just says error in windows. there is one testpage waiting in the print managing thingy, but on the cups :631 page there are no print tasks waiting.
[19:12] <pragmaticenigma> egrain: Check the configuration section and make sure it represent the same setup. CUPS may not accept remote print jobs by default: https://help.ubuntu.com/lts/serverguide/cups.html
[19:33] <bluesj0t> Whats the best irc client for ubuntu?
[19:35] <__Milencho> bluesj0t, hexchat,weechat,irssi
[19:35] <egrain> bluesj0t, i'm using hexchat.
[19:35] <__Milencho> but it's a matter of taste
[19:36] <oerheks> use the one you like best
[19:36] <oerheks> avoid xchat, is is unmaintained
[19:36] <bluesj0t> I tried using weechat but can't figure it out ha, I believe ubuntu used to ship with one pre installed but I guess not anymore
[19:45] <sixwheeledbeast> I thought it came with Hexchat?
[19:46] <sixwheeledbeast> probably mistaken
[19:46] <ikarus987> hi guys, i just installed ubuntu on my usb drive, when i boot into it -i get the ubuntu logo and the three dots after that it's black screen :( i have displayport connection with my monitor, i dont have anything else
[19:46] <bluesj0t> sixwheeledbeast, no
[19:46] <ikarus987> is there away i could install linux on my displayport monitor?
[19:46] <bluesj0t> ikarus987, just black screen forever? probably to do with grub
[19:47] <ikarus987> yes black screen, i hear the ubuntu sound thing
[19:47] <ikarus987> then just black screen
[19:47] <bluesj0t> ikarus987, you might have to direct grub to the right boot drive
[19:47] <ikarus987> so you guys telling me, it's not actually running from my usb drive?
[19:48] <ikarus987> this ubuntu screen i am getting? at first before it goes black
[19:48] <bluesj0t> ikarus987, has it ever worked on that drive
[19:48] <ikarus987> nope i dont know :-
[19:48] <ikarus987> i just found this usb drive from work
[19:48] <ikarus987> formatting it was not problem
[19:48] <bluesj0t> ikarus987, whats your gpu
[19:48] <ikarus987> 1080 ti
[19:49] <ikarus987> i'm trying to run linux as my main os
[19:49] <sixwheeledbeast> I would be surprised if it was an issue with a DP monitor.  More likely an issue with the live image itself or some other incompatibility
[19:49] <bluesj0t> its probably an issue with grub but I can't say much beyond that, your card should work with the default driver
[19:49] <ikarus987> hmm live image interesting actually
[19:50] <sixwheeledbeast> Can you try the USB image on another device to make sure it works?
[19:50] <ikarus987> i was using that live image for my virtual machines
[19:50] <ikarus987> i mean it should work ? right
[19:50] <bluesj0t> no
[19:50] <ikarus987> why not? i downloaded the live image from ubuntu
[19:50] <ikarus987> website and used it on my virtual machines
[19:51] <bluesj0t> you used the unmodified iso on the usb? or you took a system you already used in a vm?
[19:51] <ikarus987> then i'm trying to use the same live image, to actually install on an actual drive
[19:51] <sixwheeledbeast> Have you ran Ubuntu on other hardware with that exact USB before?
[19:51] <ikarus987> nope
[19:51] <ikarus987> i have used this image to install on ubuntu on many virtual machines
[19:51] <sixwheeledbeast> So I would suggest making sure your live image isn't borked first, try another machine
[19:51] <ikarus987> and i was trying to do the same on an actual hardware
[19:52] <rohdef> I want an encrypted folder that is strictly *not* tied to my login - i.e. I do not want the passphrase to even be recoverable using my normal login passphrase - however, it seems I can only find guides like this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedPrivateDirectory is there a way to setup something like this, without using my login password?
[19:52] <ikarus987> -i have googled, and i got the answer. the answer i get the default ubuntu os does not support displayport
[19:52] <bluesj0t> I would just download another image and make a new bootable usb
[19:52] <ikarus987> you will need hdmi monitor
[19:52] <ikarus987> is that wrong?
[19:53] <bluesj0t> could be it
[19:53] <ikarus987> that's kinda f'd up lol
[19:53] <ikarus987> my monitor only supports displayport
[19:54] <coz_> ikarus987, have you tried a different distribution?
[19:54] <seere> ikarus987: You should tell that my displayport-connected monitor.
[19:54] <sixwheeledbeast> i have never heard of any reason for displayport not to work.
[19:54] <seere> ikarus987: displayport should work.
[19:54] <ikarus987> ok
[19:54] <ikarus987> gonna try another image.
[19:54] <ikarus987> thanks
[19:54] <rohdef> ikarus987 just joined, so didn't see if there's any special conditions that I haven't seen, however, displayport should just work
[19:55] <ikarus987> k
[19:55] <rohdef> ikarus987 does you computer display an image during BIOS?
[19:55] <sixwheeledbeast> i can only suggest your live-image has an issue with it's bootloader and your VM's didn't care about that. Maybe make another live image
[19:55] <oerheks> !nomodeset
[19:55] <ikarus987> rohdef i get the ubuntu logo with the loading screen "* * *"
[19:55] <ikarus987> after that black screen
[19:55] <ikarus987> forever
[19:56] <ikarus987> ok
[19:56] <ikarus987> thx
[19:56] <rohdef> ikarus987 hmm ok, strange, try the setup @oerheks kindly linked to using the bot
[19:59] <bluesj0t> go in grub and get it to open ubuntu in verbose
[20:00] <sixwheeledbeast> nomodeset and remove quiet splash while your at it.
[20:01] <ikarus987> thx
[20:06] <ikarus987> 1 more question
[20:06] <rohdef> found the answer to my own question it seems :)
[20:11] <brutser> hi guys, i am looking for someone who got experience with setting up windows 10 as guest in qemu-kvm. i like graphics to work as decent as possible and clipboard sharing, windows is running, but i can't put resolution same size as screen of host, clipboard is not working... need some help !!
[20:21] <thran> @bruster Are you using Virtual Machine Manager to control your VMs? I use it with a Linux guest and can just right click to copy text to host. It may be different for a Windows 10 guest.
[20:46] <ikarus987> hi
[20:46] <ikarus987> great it worked at least the monitor part
[20:46] <ikarus987> i could choose the disk i wanted to install on, everything great
[20:46] <ikarus987> then it asked me to reboot, i did
[20:46] <ikarus987> lol now my hard disk is missing, it's gone
[20:47] <ikarus987> even from bios, so i cant even boot into it
[20:47] <ikarus987> i have m.2 ssd
[20:48] <bluesj0t> this guy
[20:49] <bluesj0t> your hard disk teleported bro f in the chat
[20:49] <Plasmoduck> Hi, I tried to install Ubuntu Desktop on my 'Late 2012 iMac 27" i5 2.9GHz Quad-Core, 16GB Ram, 120GB SSD
[20:49] <Plasmoduck> But it failed
[20:49] <bluesj0t> why did it failed
[20:49] <Plasmoduck> Before it even booted to the installation
[20:50] <Plasmoduck> During the kernel boot
[20:50] <Plasmoduck> SOmething about firmware
[20:50] <bluesj0t> god i hate macs
[20:51] <bluesj0t> It's been a long time since I used mac but what bootloader did you use on the drive?
[20:51] <Plasmoduck> I don't know, I justdownloaded the installer to my usb dongle and booted it and it cashed before it weven got to the setup screen
[20:54] <bluesj0t> Plasmoduck, did you use unetbootin?
[20:54] <Plasmoduck> How?
[20:55] <bluesj0t> Plasmoduck, install unetbootin program on your macos and use it to flash the ubuntu iso to the drive
[20:56] <Plasmoduck> I used the program balenaa etcher that I use for flashing all installers like freebsd, pfsense, raspbian so I can't see why I need to use something else
[20:58] <bluesj0t> macos kernel uses bsd software in it so i imagine its a lot easier to run bsd on a mac lol
[20:59] <bluesj0t> my favorite way to make a bootable usb is dd
[21:00] <bluesj0t> dd if=/home/isofile.iso of=/locationofusb bs=4M status=progress
[21:01] <Plasmoduck> Yes I know how to use dd
[21:03] <Plasmoduck> macOS kernel (darwin) was forked form some of the NetBSD microkernel code, these days its completely re-written. However I believe they are still using the NetBSD TCP/IP stack.
[21:56] <SlidingHorn> So how long is long enough to make sure that your system has completely crashed with no hope of responding? Had a lot of open applications and started to create a VM in virtualbox, and it froze...clock and all, and hasn't responded in about 15 minutes... (bionic)
[21:59] <akem> SlidingHorn, Try to access it from SSH in the case it is possible.
[21:59] <usr13> SlidingHorn: Can you ping from another PC?
[22:00] <akem> But after 15 minutes i wouldn't expect it to come back.
[22:01] <usr13> SlidingHorn: Ctrl-Alt-F2  (See if you can get to a console screen.)
[22:02] <SlidingHorn> akem: usr13: I can ping it, but cannot get a response with ssh
[22:02] <SlidingHorn> usr13: let me try to get to another tty on it...just a second...
[22:02] <usr13> SlidingHorn: If you can ping it's IP address, then something is alive in there...
[22:03] <usr13> Yea, try tty2 or....
[22:03] <SlidingHorn> usr13: no dice on getting to another tty
[22:04] <usr13> SlidingHorn: sshd may not be enabled
[22:04] <SlidingHorn> usr13: I ssh into it all the time
[22:04] <TJ-> if userspace has hung kernel will still respond to ICMP
[22:04] <usr13> SlidingHorn: Are you sure you got the right IP address?
[22:05] <SlidingHorn> usr13: 100%    TJ-: ah that makes sense
[22:05] <SlidingHorn> So looks like a hard reset is going to be my only option
[22:05] <TJ-> SlidingHorn: you could try some SysRq magic keys
[22:06] <TJ-> SlidingHorn: in a default install most useful keys are unfortunately disabled though
[22:06] <SlidingHorn> TJ-: is there an ubottu factoid for that, or should I just DDG it?
[22:06] <kostkon> !reisub
[22:06] <usr13> SlidingHorn: Yea, if you know sshd is listening, hard reset more than likely about all you can do.
[22:06] <TJ-> SlidingHorn: but if you just want to do a somewhat 'safe' reboot without upsetting file-systems by syncing to disk, you can use the REISUB sequence
[22:07] <SlidingHorn> TJ-: I'll give that a shot
[22:07] <TJ-> SlidingHorn: press Alt+SysRq, release SysRq but keep holding Alt, then, in turn, press and release R E I S U B
[22:08] <SlidingHorn> TJ-: That seems to have worked!
[22:08] <SlidingHorn> TJ-: I'll have to read that wiki article. Interesting (and useful) little feature that is
[22:09] <usr13> Interesting factoid, did not know about that reboot option.
[22:19] <JimBuntu> usr13: this is why we have expert volunteers here. Ok, back to normal support and I'll take the slap on the wrist.
[22:24] <Xano> Hi all! One of my machines can't find its ethernet connection after a clean 19.10 installation. `lshw -C network` shows it as unclaimed (https://pastebin.com/vJ4emayx). It did originally show up as a driver issue under Software & Updates, until I installed backports-iwlwifi-dkms. It's got no logical name, and doesn't show up in `ip`, `ifconfig`, etc, nor `nm*`. It used to work under 18.04. What could be the cause?
[22:41] <SlidingHorn> This may be better for a vbox specific channel, but just to give it a shot - if I run "VBoxManage "ubuntu-server" will that open a virtualbox GUI window, or will it run the server vm in that shell from which it was called?
[22:41] <SlidingHorn> sorry: VBoxManage startvm "ubuntu-server"
[22:45] <TJ-> Xano: can you show us  "pastebinit <( lspci -nnk -d ::0200 )"
[22:51] <Xano> TJ-, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/wGTCBMfvRQ/
[22:52] <Xano> journalctl says this about that kernel module: https://pastebin.com/eiBFCJKG
[22:52] <TJ-> Xano: ok, so the e1000e module is failing to load. I suspect we'll find error messages to help here in the kernel log. try "pastebin <( journalctl -b 0 -k -p warning )"
[22:52] <Xano> Trying to find out what kind of an erro r-2 is
[22:53] <Xano> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/n7qT4PBTXm/
[22:54] <TJ-> Xano: #define ENOENT           2      /* No such file or directory */
[22:54] <TJ-> Xano: so I'm guessing it is failing to load a firmware file
[22:54] <acresearch> people is there is bug in the ubuntu unstaller 19.10   i keep getting Error 5 input/output error on any HDD i try to install ubuntu on, on different computers as well, can someone help me?
[22:55] <TJ-> Xano: aha " kernel: Initramfs unpacking failed: Decoding failed "
[22:55] <Klinda> what's the difference between kubuntu and lubuntu, I mean if lubuntu use less ram and all, why is not better?
[22:55] <usr13> acresearch: Did you verify ISO integrity
[22:55] <TJ-> Xano: I suspect you're a corrupted /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r) and need to regenerate it with "sudo update-initramfs -uv"
[22:56] <acresearch> usr13: no how?
[22:56] <TJ-> acresearch: when the installer's boot there's a 'check' option on the boot menu
[22:56] <Xano> TJ-, Gonna give that a try. What generates that file?
[22:56] <usr13> Klinda:  Just the Desktop enviornments, KDE vs LDE
[22:57] <usr13> acresearch: md5sum the iso and google it.
[22:57] <Xano> TJ-, as in: how could that file have gotten corrupted? From the installer download? As this is a clean install
[22:57] <acresearch> usr13: md5sum i checked it is fine
[22:57] <acresearch> TJ-: where is it in the installer?
[22:57] <TJ-> acresearch: as soon as it boots
[22:57] <acresearch> TJ-: well i am able to start the installer
[22:58] <TJ-> acresearch: on the same menu where you'll see "Try Ubuntu" and "Install"
[22:58] <acresearch> the error comes at the end of the installation process
[22:58] <TJ-> acresearch: is the installer on a USB device?
[22:58] <acresearch> TJ-: yes
[22:59] <TJ-> acresearch: right. my gut feeling is that error 5 input/output is due to a problem in reading it when files from the end of the install are needed, which would explain why it doesn't happen earlier
[22:59] <acresearch> TJ-: i see
[22:59] <TJ-> acresearch: the error number comes from the kernel, where it is defined as: define EIO              5      /* I/O error */
[22:59] <acresearch> ah
[22:59] <AlexPortable> I have two problems with Ubuntu right now, one is that the computer (18.04) won't have any internet connectivity after returning from standby (disconnecting the cable, turning off the router or restarting the computer works). The other problem is that my system (Ubuntu 19.10) locks up during heavy I/O
[23:00] <Xano> TJ-, regenerates initramfs, checked journalctl for warnings: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/2G5f8vDMWz/
[23:00] <Xano> *regenerated
[23:00] <TJ-> Xano: the initrd.img files are generated by the installed system. Amongst other things they'll contain kernel modules needed to bring up the hardware
[23:01] <TJ-> Xano: no errors about the e1000e there; is the driver now loaded? "lspci -nnk -d ::0200"
[23:01] <TJ-> Xano: if loaded you'll see "Kernel in use: e1000e"
[23:01] <Xano> TJ-, Okay so initrd.img could for instance be regenerated when enabling modules, and that could corrupt it?
[23:02] <TJ-> Xano: it shouldn't but the last one was corrupted as the kernel told us
[23:03] <Xano> TJ-, lspci gives us this, which appears unchanged; https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4myNVZtX4p/
[23:03] <TJ-> Xano: usually this occurs when the /boot/ dir is on a separate small file-system and hits 100% use and the file gets truncated
[23:04] <Oderus> guys everytime i boot up I get some error messages, some of them are only when i have my external hdd connected. https://pasteboard.co/J023hUY.jpg
[23:04] <TJ-> Xano: ok, lets try loading it manually. first do "sudo dmesg -C" to clear the kernel's ring buffer. Then lets monitor new messages in the background and whilst doing that load the module with "dmesg -w & sudo modprobe e1000e" then "fg" to bring logging to foreground, then press Ctrl+C to terminate it. Then pastebin what was reported
[23:07] <acresearch> TJ-: so what should I do?
[23:08] <TJ-> acresearch: run the 'check' option to begin with - if it doesn't find a problem with the image content then my next guess would be the USB is simply overheating from the constant reading from it ... gets toward the end and falls over
[23:08] <Xano> TJ-, Thanks for that new trick (& and fg). I was just using a separate terminal :) no dmesg output though
[23:09] <TJ-> Xano: did the module load? "lsmod | grep e100"
[23:09] <Xano> TJ-, https://pastebin.com/fBY9NaNH
[23:09] <Xano> TJ-, It appears so, but is unused?
[23:10] <TJ-> Xano: hmmm... so "lspci -nnk -d ::0200" still doesn't show it in use/
[23:10] <Xano> TJ-, It still only says "Kernel modules: e1000e", but nothing about it being in use
[23:11] <TJ-> Xano: hmmm, this makes we wonder if that device's alias isn't claimed by the module then
[23:11] <Xano> TJ-, alias as in "eth0" or similar?
[23:13] <TJ-> Xano: if you do this is this what you see?  " modinfo -F alias e1000e | egrep '(15D8|2068)'
[23:13] <TJ-> pci:v00008086d000015D8sv*sd*bc*sc*
[23:14] <TJ-> Xano: this is the kernel module's 'alias' list which is a list of PCI vendor:device IDs it claims to support
[23:14] <TJ-> Xano: I presume you do see that else the lspci output wouldn't list the module
[23:15] <Xano> TJ-, I do indeed see that
[23:16] <TJ-> Xano: ok... lets unload the module and try the dmesg trick again. "sudo modprobe -r e1000e" then "sudo dmesg -C" then "dmesg -w & sudo modprobe e1000e" then "fg" and Ctrl+C again
[23:17] <TJ-> Xano: last time its possible the module was already loaded and therefore modprobe wouldn't have done anything
[23:19] <Xano> TJ-, Indeed, you're right. A few lines about Intel, and then "probe of 0000:00:1f.6 failed with error -2"
[23:19] <Xano> lf.6 is the ethernet device
[23:20] <TJ-> Xano: good, so lets figure that out
[23:20] <TJ-> Xano: from experience I know of several issues with these I219-V devices... by chance, is this a dual-boot system with Windows?
[23:22] <TJ-> Xano: which kernel is this? "uname -r"
[23:25] <addc182> if netplan is installed, but there is no config in /etc/netplan/ or /run/netplan/ is it safe to assume netplan is not setting the IP config? (wsl2-1804.4)
[23:26] <TJ-> addc182: yes
[23:26] <usr13> Xard: lsmod |grep e1000e
[23:26] <TJ-> addc182: although, WSL2 is Windows? not sure
[23:26] <TJ-> usr13: module is loaded; we know that
[23:27] <usr13> TJ-: Did he look at output of 'ip link' ?
[23:28] <Xano> TJ-, Hi, I somehow disconnected. Did you say anything after your question about Windows?
[23:28] <TJ-> usr13: there's no need, that won't help. The issue is the device is failing so the e1000e module cannot bind to it
[23:28] <TJ-> Xano: ahhh
[23:28] <Xano> TJ-, But not, it was a single-boot 18.04 system, and I installed 19.10 over it this evening
[23:28] <TJ-> Xano: which kernel is this? "uname -r"
[23:28] <TJ-> Xano: it worked with 18.04 ?
[23:28] <Xano> TJ-, 5.3.0-42-generic
[23:29] <TJ-> Xano: give me moment whilst I look up the git commit history for the module
[23:29] <Xano> TJ-, Yeah it used to work for years, last time I used this machine was a few days ago
[23:29] <Xano> I only reinstalled tonight
[23:30] <usr13> Xano: Is this a desktop or laptop?
[23:30] <TJ-> Xano: there are quite a few reports of this device failing in recent kernels
[23:30] <Xano> usr13, 'desktop', it's a NUC
[23:31] <CrazySam> does ubuntu server 16.04 lts come with a desktop env?
[23:31] <Xano> usr13, There's a bunch of mobile components in there
[23:32] <Xano> TJ-, interesting. Where do you read that?
[23:32] <oerheks> CrazySam, no, but uses the same repos as the desktop env, so go wild and install one
[23:32] <oerheks> !flavors
[23:32] <usr13> Xano: If you have a network card laying aroud or from another PC, you could try it and see if you can get something going
[23:34] <TJ-> Xano: here's a bug report I dealt with some time ago, where I wrote in comment #17 about a known issue. This isn't the issue you're seeing though, but there is useful background in that thread https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1785171
[23:34] <oerheks> !find u-desktop
[23:35] <TJ-> Xano: I MAY have a workaround for you, read and try this (I've done this for many related issues and it often solves them) https://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
[23:35] <CrazySam> i have 1 vps with ubuntu 16.04 lts and it either had a desktop env preinstalled or i installed it and forgot
[23:35] <addc182> TJ- yeh windows and basically ubuntu-minimal by the looks of things, WSL1 used the host's IP to expose services, think I need to give it a usable IP in WSL2, if I make a netplan config I am assuming I get conflicts? but network/interfaces also commented out
[23:35] <CrazySam> does 16.04 lts come as desktop and as server version?
[23:35] <TJ-> addc182: I don't use Windows so can't assist there
[23:36] <garshol> CrazySam: yes.
[23:36] <addc182> thanks anyway
[23:36] <oerheks> sure your vps comes with a manual
[23:39] <Xano> TJ-, Hi, my IRC client disconnected again
[23:39] <Xano> That was odd
[23:40] <Xano> TJ-, Last I received was "there are quite a few reports of this device failing in recent kernels"
[23:40] <CrazySam> looks like 12.04 lts was the first to have a common support eol date for both desktop and server?
[23:41] <CrazySam> support ended 2017-04-28
[23:41] <Xano> TJ-, If it's a kernel issue, easiest is probably to try and install 18.04 again
[23:42] <TJ-> Xano: I MAY have a workaround for you, read and try this (I've done this for many related issues and it often solves them) https://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
[23:43] <TJ-> Xano: earlier I also wrote:  here's a bug report I dealt with some time ago, where I wrote in comment #17 about a known issue. This isn't the issue you're seeing though, but there is useful background in that thread https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1785171
[23:44] <CrazySam> is there a command that helps me determine if i have "server" or "desktop" version of ubuntu?
[23:44] <CrazySam> lsb_release -a
[23:44] <CrazySam> Description:    Ubuntu 18.04.4 LTS
[23:45] <CrazySam> that's it? no more details?
[23:46] <TJ-> CrazySam: the difference is in the packages installed. Easiest is possibly to see which network manager is installed. NetworkManager means desktop, systemd-networkd means server
[23:47] <CrazySam> print network-manager
[23:47] <Xano> TJ-, I'll bookmark those. I honestly to have to say I have a few projects going on and this machine is one that just needs to work as it blocks a few other things we need, so if downgrading works I'm gonna skip trying that workaround. I do really appreciate the time you spent running me through this tonight. I learned a ton!
[23:47] <CrazySam> wishing it was that easy
[23:47] <TJ-> CrazySam: "apt list --installed '*network*' "
[23:51] <CrazySam> systemd, systemd-sysv, network-dispatcher
[23:51] <CrazySam> server?
[23:51] <Xano> TJ-, So thank you very much for being friendly and answering the questions I had while trying to debug this using your advice. That was a good experience :) It's midnight here, so I'm going to have to log off soon. Have a good weekend (hope you're not too locked up at home :X )
[23:51] <CrazySam> i'm looking at another vps now, this one should definitely be a server
[23:51] <TJ-> CrazySam: seems so if you've got systemd-networkd
[23:52] <CrazySam> no, no "systemd-networkd"
[23:52] <th_> zsnes working for anyone? gettin a black screen
[23:52] <TJ-> CrazySam: desktop would have network-manager
[23:52] <TJ-> CrazySam: hmmm, maybe "apt list --installed ifupdown" then ?
[23:53] <CrazySam> Listing... Done
[23:53] <CrazySam> ?
[23:53] <th_> nvm, deleted ~/.zsnes and restarted it, must of been some setting i had
[23:53] <TJ-> CrazySam: so none of them are installed?
[23:54] <TJ-> Xano: good luck with it... I'm on a farm so plenty of space to play in :)
[23:54] <CrazySam> apt list --installed ifupdown
[23:54] <CrazySam> this just lists "Listing... Done" with nothing listed
[23:54] <CrazySam> funny one!
[23:55] <CrazySam> apt list --installed
[23:55] <CrazySam> i used this command and then eyeballed through the list
[23:55] <CrazySam> i found no "systemd-networkd" and this one i know is a server install of 18.04
[23:56] <TJ-> CrazySam: the three possible network tools in Ubuntu are (legacy) ifupdown (/etc/network/interfaces), network-manager (/etc/NetworkManager/system-connections/) and systemd-networkd (/etc/systemd/network, /run/systemd/network/) last two usually configured via netplan (/etc/netplan/)
[23:58] <CrazySam> so back to my original question, how to tell "desktop" apart from "server"? it seems impossible
[23:58] <CrazySam> these methods are forensic analysis, there seems to be no definitive way to tell them apart
[23:58] <usr13> CrazySam: Why do you need to know?
[23:59] <CrazySam> good question!
[23:59] <CrazySam> curiousity is one reason
[23:59] <TJ-> CrazySam: as I said, it's only a question of packages installed. Is "ubuntu-desktop" installed for example?


[00:02] <JFo> crimsun, any word on that patch for Jane's bug?
[00:07] <crimsun> JFo: oh, I've had one rolled for a couple days, but I'd really like to avoid ping-pong, hence asking for another tester first
[00:07] <crimsun> JFo: also, I haven't heard back whether the symptom is reproducible from a current Lucid live cd
[00:07] <JFo> ah, right
[00:08] <crimsun> what's really quite strange is either her wording or the actual symptom; jack sensing appears to have worked in Lucid prior to the use of some app
[00:09] <crimsun> s/Lucid/Karmic/
[00:11]  * crimsun digs into the pulse-on-ARM bug in frustration
[03:58] <crimsun> smb's stable branch for <IP_ADDRESS> has the BugLinks munged for my commits


[05:10] <infinity> TheMuso: Ahh, indeed, thanks for the pointer.  Re-promoting it, then.
[10:21] <alessio> hi all
[11:42] <surak> I have a question about the bug reports submitted by apport. Every time I send such reports, my bugs are automatically marked as "invalid", as apport is aparrently unable to extract enough debug information, and the stack trace, for instance, always comes out blank. What to do?
[11:43] <infinity> surak: Upgrade.
[11:43] <surak> It is upgraded daily
[11:43] <infinity> Well, generally, the retracers only have a hissy fit if they can't find the debug symbols for your binaries.
[11:44] <surak> indeed. Are quantal's packages  compiled with debug symbols? Are there two versions of the repositories?
[11:44] <surak> This happens since 12.04
[11:45] <infinity> Example bug?
[11:45] <surak> 1033478
[11:45] <infinity> There's only one "version" of the archive, but if you're using a really laggy mirror, this could happen.
[11:46] <surak> deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu quantal main restricted
[11:46] <infinity> Or, in this case, looks like the issue is the inverse.
[11:47] <surak> 1029420 and 1028863 too
[11:47] <surak> pardon?
[11:47] <infinity> The retracer is failing to find new symbols.  Perhaps ddebs.u.c is having problems.
[11:48] <surak> The oldest I still have here is the 1028863, 2 weeks ago - but it surely happened before that.
[11:48] <infinity> I know it ran out of disk space recently.
[11:48] <infinity> And there's been work on fixing that.
[11:49] <infinity> So, it could just be a temporary gap in coverage.
[11:51] <surak> Well... It has been like that for quite a while (more than quantal, for sure)
[11:52] <infinity> "like that" doesn't mean much.
[11:52] <infinity> It hasn't been just like this particular error at all times, I'm sure.
[11:52] <surak> Ok - it has been invaliding apport submissions for as long as I can remember
[11:52] <infinity> In this case, the ddebs are outdated compared to the packages on your system.
[11:53] <debfx> hm why do the lp buildds don't consider installing libsocket-perl when the package build-deps on "libsocket-perl (>= 1.95) | perl (>= 5.15.6)"?
[11:53] <debfx> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/112033772/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-i386.libio-async-perl_0.51-2_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[11:53] <Chipzz> infinity: sounds to me like the bug being marked invalid is a bug; shouldn't the retracer try again later?
[11:53] <infinity> debfx: There's a bug open for that.  sbuild misfeature.
[11:53] <seb128> surak, infinity: the versions you are using are weird
[11:53] <debfx> ok
[11:53] <seb128> surak, looking at bug #1029420
[11:54] <seb128>  Package: unity-2d-shell 5.12.0-0ubuntu2
[11:54] <surak> seb128: it was the version of the day.
[11:54] <yaffs> !ops
[11:55] <infinity> unity-2d-shell | 5.12.0-0ubuntu3 |       quantal | amd64, armel, armhf, i386, powerpc
[11:55] <yaffs> !ops
[11:55] <Pici> yaffs: ?
[11:55] <infinity> ^-- seb128 What's weird about bug 1033478
[11:56] <infinity> seb128: He has 5.12.0-0ubuntu3 (the latest) installed, ddebs.ubuntu.com is just lagging horribly, probably due to ENOSPC issues, and pitti's scripts falling over.
[11:56] <seb128> infinity, surak: seems like those unity-2d versions got bitten by the ddeb ENOSPACE
[11:57] <seb128> infinity, well, I think pitti told me last week at GUADEC that he made space
[11:57] <seb128> but it's likely part of the ddebs got lost
[11:57] <infinity> seb128: Yeah, IS cleared up some space for us.
[11:57] <Laney> ..
[11:58] <Laney> Funny looking terminal, this.
[11:58] <infinity> seb128: But this unity-2d build is a week old, so could have just been at the wrong time.
[11:58] <seb128> yeah
[11:58] <infinity> I guess we really need to look at moving this all to the librarian ASAP, so we stop losing things. :/
[11:59] <surak> Probably a bad time for upgrade. Last friday somehow the dist-upgrade ate my xorg.
[12:00] <infinity> debfx: sbuild misfeature aside, it's probably easier to just fix the build-dep for now.  The only reason that's a valid build-dep in Debian is pure fluke (because perl just happens to be in the buildd chroots, despite only transitively being build-essential)
[12:01] <infinity> surak: Are you running quantal-proposed...?
[12:02] <infinity> surak: Cause that's where all the xorg mangling has been happening.  And you really shouldn't have proposed enabled for a devel release, unless you expect/want it to break. :P
[12:02] <surak> yep - I like reporting bugs :)
[12:03] <infinity> Well, we use proposed specifically to break things.
[12:03] <infinity> I really wouldn't recommend running it.
[12:03] <infinity> Seriously.
[12:03] <surak> ok
[12:22] <tjaalton_> surak: probably lost the nvidia blob there, since -proposed doesn't have it yet
[12:23] <surak> This machine uses some onboard intel crap
[12:24] <surak> that's why unity-2d
[12:25] <tjaalton_> intel should work fine
[12:26] <surak> it always fails when I switch ports on the external screen
[12:26] <surak> but I never managed to make apport send this bug correctly
[12:34] <debfx> infinity: why would the build-dependency be invalid otherwise?
[12:35] <infinity> debfx: Because Debian ignores alternate build-deps unless they're already installed.  So, it only works in experimental (where it was meant to work) because perl happens to be there.
[12:36] <infinity> debfx: I'm not saying this isn't a bug in Ubuntu (it is, because our buildds don't ignore alternates, so they're clearly misbehaving here), but it's not a widespread issue either.
[12:37] <infinity> debfx: Anyhow, we do have a bug filed about it, and if I believe mterry was meant to be testing a fix.
[12:38] <infinity> debfx: It still might be faster to just alter the build-deps on that one package, though. :P
[12:39] <debfx> there are two packages with that build-dep ;)
[12:40] <infinity> (The other "solution" would be to force a perl transition... *cough*)
[12:58] <ogasawara> @pilot out
[13:32] <stgraber> @pilot in
[13:44] <mpt> ev, is bug 1033471 related to bug 989800?
[13:45] <ev> mpt: ah, they are the same issue
[13:45] <ev> apologies
[13:46] <ev> I didn't think to look for an existing bug first
[15:08] <ogra_> stgraber, you clearly need more CPU for apport :P
[15:09] <stgraber> ogra_: hehe, yeah ;) it's not too bad on my laptop, but it's a huge pain when happening on the panda or my netbook...
[15:09] <ogra_> yeah, same for me on the ac100
[15:09] <ogra_> on my desktop i dont notice apoport in the bg at all
[15:09] <ogra_> only the annoying popups that steal focus in the middle of typing a sentence
[15:10] <stgraber> I think what I'd actually love in my case would be some kind of "internal" whoopsie server on my network. Have all the machines always collect any needed data, shoot the result to my whoopsie server, then let me get a nice view of all the crashes on my network on a per day/machine view and then let me forward stuff to the public whoopsie
[15:11] <stgraber> that way no machine that I manage would ever prompt the user, I'd get more data on what's going on on the machines I care about and would be able to forward more crashes to the main whoopsie server
[15:12] <ogra_> yeah, but my mom wouldnt like me to set up an additional machine in her wlan to collect the crashes from the laptop :)
[15:13] <stgraber> ogra_: that's what VPNs are for ;)
[15:13] <ogra_> haha
[15:15] <ogra_> i would actually vote for leaving whoopsie on and getting seb128 30 new team members to deal with it ;)
[15:15] <seb128> ogra_, I would sign for that
[15:33] <infinity> stgraber: I wouldn't be against a tickbox for "silently report all errors; don't include sensitive data".
[15:33] <infinity> stgraber: Then I'd never see a dialog again, and never care.
[15:34] <infinity> stgraber: (This would have to be on the apport "report a problem" dialog, mind you, with a "how do you want to treat further errors?" heading, since if it's in some deep, dark settings thing somewhere, normal people will never know there's a "stop bugging me" option)
[15:44] <stgraber> infinity: yeah, I think it'd be a reasonable way to get all the data we want with a clear opt-in system that people would likely prefer to just not sending anything
[15:45] <infinity> stgraber: It's been a long time since I've used Windows and seen a drwtsn32 popup, but don't they do a similar "just automatically report shit after this one, please" thing?
[15:45] <infinity> stgraber: I honestly think that's the only way you can get a decent flow of data wihtout pissing off and/or confusing "regular people".
[15:46]  * ogra_ thought you couldnt disable drwatson
[15:46] <ogra_> iirc that annoyed the hell out of me with win 2000 ... though i havent touched win much afterwards
[15:48] <infinity> ogra_: Well, if Dr Watson annoyed the hell out of you, welcome to us having reinvented your pain. ;)
[15:48] <ogra_> yeah, i thought of it recently actually ...
[15:48] <infinity> (I'd have to go find a Windows desktop and force a page fault, but I'm fairly sure that even if you can't "disable" it completely, you can make it silent, which is really what we want here)
[15:49] <ogra_> though i really could live with the popups if they wouldnt just blkindly steal focus
[15:49] <ogra_> i find their behavior  way worse than their frequency
[15:49] <infinity> Yes, but you know what they mean.
[15:49] <ogra_> yes
[15:49] <infinity> Every time my parents get ANY sort of popup on their computer, they phone me.
[15:50] <ogra_> lol
[15:50] <infinity> Or when their mail client says something they've never seen.
[15:50] <infinity> Or, or, or...
[15:50] <ogra_> my mom still runs lucid :)
[15:50] <infinity> My parents run Win7, for irritating reasons.
[15:50] <ogra_> i only get occasional calls ... because she cant find the icon anymore or some such
[15:50] <infinity> But this isn't OS-specific, by any means.
[15:50] <ogra_> indeed
[16:31] <LoT> is there a determination between "core" and "non-core" packages used by the devel team(s)?
[16:31] <LoT> we're trying to figure out in Bug Squad how we got "core" and "non-core" determinations for importance, and I'm wondering if we're inheriting that from some devel-related thing.
[16:32] <micahg> LoT: I don't think those 2 are compatible
[16:32] <LoT> micahg: any idea where the terms came from then?  (see bugsquad emails)
[16:33] <LoT> actually... *disappears back to -bugs*
[16:37] <cjwatson> LoT: That sounds very vague.
[16:37] <LoT> cjwatson: if you're in -bugs, micah and i moved the discussion there
[16:37] <cjwatson> LoT: We have a few definitions of "core" depending on context, but who knows what it means in bugsquad terms :-)
[16:37] <cjwatson> I'm not
[16:38] <LoT> cjwatson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance defines "core" and "non-core"
[16:38] <micahg> I jumped a little here, it could be compatible, I was conflating core and minimal
[16:38] <LoT> the issue here is that that documentation we use doesnt point to any definition of core or non-core
[16:39] <LoT> so part of this is finding out *where* we get those from, and if they don't exist already, well..
[16:39] <LoT> either define it or remove that distinction for BugSquad
[16:39] <cjwatson> LoT: That could mean anything - hard to tell.
[16:39]  * LoT wasnt sure if we get that from the dev team's distinction of what is core.
[16:39] <cjwatson> I doubt it.
[16:39] <LoT> indeed, that's what micahg and i determined during UDS
[16:39] <cjwatson> It certainly doesn't correspond to e.g. ubuntu-core.
[16:39] <cjwatson> Because most desktop applications aren't in that.
[16:40] <LoT> so if we don't get that from the dev team's definition of "core", then BugSquad needs to have a clear definition.
[16:40] <cjwatson> Sorry, I mean: no desktop applications are in that.
[16:40] <cjwatson> It's probably a deliberately vague term intended to allow judgement ...
[16:41] <cjwatson> But you might consider things like: applications that are installed by default; applications that are in main; applications that are popular
[16:47] <brendand> LoT - i'm pretty sure 'core' refers to being in the base installation (i.e. on the CD)
[16:48] <brendand> LoT - non-core means something installed later by the user
[16:48] <brendand> LoT - e.g. Shotwell = core, Skype = non-core
[16:49] <micahg> brendand: core is highly ambiguous with different definitions per-context
[16:50] <brendand> micahg, i'm 99% sure this is what it means in this case. it's meant to give precedence to the applications users are more likely to use
[16:51] <brendand> micahg, though certainly it could be clarified on the page
[16:52] <brendand> micahg, and even though i'm pretty sure that's what the definition was intended to be, it might be that we want to revisit it
[18:54] <slangasek> seb128: hmm, your new fontconfig is very spammy on stderr
[18:57] <seb128> slangasek, is it? :-(
[18:58] <slangasek> seb128: at least on my system, it is... http://paste.ubuntu.com/1133039/
[18:58] <Laney> me too: http://paste.debian.net/182434/
[18:59] <slangasek> checking those files, at least some of them appear to still be part of the default install in quantal
[19:00] <seb128> slangasek, Laney: thanks, I don't have those installed but my install is not a recent one, I might have uninstalled stuff over time
[19:00] <micahg> as well as grammatical issues :)
[19:00] <seb128> but it doesn't seem like a but in the fontconfig update
[19:00] <seb128> but->bug
[19:00] <Laney> I suspect it's a new warning and the wrongness was always wrong
[19:01] <seb128> rather a bug in the config shipped by those which triggers a warning in the new fontconfig
[19:01] <slangasek> yep, that may be the case
[19:01] <seb128> I will have a look at fixing those
[19:01] <slangasek> seb128: thanks much!
[19:01] <seb128> slangasek, Laney: thanks for pointing them!
[19:21] <lifeless> bug 974509
[20:15] <seb128> slangasek, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/84736369/popt_1.16-1_1.16-1ubuntu1.diff.gz
[20:15] <seb128> slangasek, "* Build-depend on gettext:any instead of just gettext, for cross-compilation support." ... do you know if that has been sent to Debian and if not if there is a reason to not to? that's the only diff we have
[20:15] <slangasek> seb128: the reason not to is the Debian autobuilders don't support it.
[20:16] <seb128> slangasek, ok, so we need to keep a delta for that? :-(
[20:16] <slangasek> yes
[20:16] <seb128> thanks
[20:16] <seb128> slangasek, it would be nice to put some rational in the changelog in those case, glad that you replied, it was not obvious from the diff
[20:19] <slangasek> seb128: sorry, I disagree, I'm not going to put rationale in the changelog explaining why any given change isn't in Debian yet
[20:20] <seb128> slangasek, I guess the merges should be let to be done by those who have the knowledge of the changes then...
[20:21] <slangasek> that's an option :)
[20:21] <seb128> it's not optimal though
[20:21] <seb128> I'm not against it, but it practice those merges just don't get done apparently
[20:26] <slangasek> well, merging new Debian revisions of libraries is a low priority as far as I'm concerned.  There's not many ways that a Debian maintainer *can* improve such a package that matter to us
[20:26] <slangasek> this one looks like it's potentially relevant because of hardening, at least
[20:57] <soren> mdz, kees, pitti, stgraber, cjwatson: TB meeting in 2½ minutes.
[21:00] <seb128> soren, pitti is on holidays so I doubt he will be around (just for info)
[21:00] <soren> seb128: Thanks!
[21:01] <mdz> soren, hi
[21:01] <cjwatson> ack
[21:09] <ScottK> superm1: I think you're wanted in #ubuntu-meetings.
[21:09] <ScottK>  -meeting
[21:09] <superm1> ScottK: sure i can pop in there
[21:09] <stgraber> ScottK: thanks
[21:09] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[21:16] <roaksoax> jbicha: thanks for filing the bug report on rhcs
[21:16] <roaksoax> jbicha: i was just about to sync it myself
[21:17] <roaksoax> jbicha: but i;ll make sure it gets removed from the blacklist before syncing it
[23:57] <SpamapS> ScottK: so, how far behind are you guys on precise-backports?


[22:00] <evanrmurphy> andrew_sayers: I'm considering that "FlowQ" might be marginally better than "Flowq" (somehow easier for me to process, more reminiscent of "FAQ"). Thoughts?
[22:01] <andrew_sayers> There's already a program called FlowQ though.
[22:02] <andrew_sayers> It's in a pretty tangential area, which is why I figured it was okay so long as it's not completely identical.
[22:03] <evanrmurphy> Ah. :)
[22:09] <andrew_sayers> Anyway, I'm done for the day.  Until tomorrow.
[22:23] <evanrmurphy> andrew_sayers: I like the upper limit of 7 (and its justification) on branch node answers, but when it comes to the longest route to action nodes, 7 strikes me as high. I think most users would be find it irritating to click through 7 questions before finding a semi-definitive answer to their real question.
[22:25] <evanrmurphy> I'm not sure I have a better upper limit to define, but my point is that it may be more important to keep a Flowq route a good deal shorter than 7, whereas a multiple-choice list of 7 isn't too bad.
[22:28] <evanrmurphy> The other problem with long routes is that each node a user passes through, the more likely s/he is to not perceive the answer to his/her question as one of the listed ones and instead choose "None of the above" to ask directly in the forum.
[22:28] <evanrmurphy> This detail aside, I'm impressed so far with what you have at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Flowq, and I just subscribed.
[22:40] <evanrmurphy> andrew_sayers: Can you send me a link to the other project "FlowQ"?