[22:10] <mrenouf> Can I get a cloak? https://launchpad.net/~mark-renouf
[22:11] <nhaines> mrenouf: Ubuntu cloaks are only for members of the Ubuntu project.
[22:11] <mrenouf> Oh, gotcha.
[22:11] <nhaines> But, you can request an unaffiliated cloak from Freenode.
[22:36] <tinym> hello
[22:36] <tinym> I've come to request an IRC cloak
[22:36] <erUSUL> tinym: launchpad page?
[22:36] <tinym> https://launchpad.net/~tinym
[22:36] <erUSUL> !cloak
[22:36] <erUSUL> oops
[22:37] <erUSUL> tinym: also make sure the nick is set up correctly.
[22:37] <erUSUL> !nicksetup
[22:41] <erUSUL> tinym: now wait for ThoseWhoCan to give you the cloak :)
[22:41] <tinym> thanks
[22:45]  * erUSUL checks tinym launchpad page ...
[22:45] <m4v> tinym: for an unaffiliated cloaks you should ask in #freenode, for ubuntu cloaks you must be an Ubuntu Member
[22:45] <erUSUL> tinym: i see you are not ubuntu memeber yet.
[22:46] <erUSUL> !member | tinym
[22:46] <erUSUL> tinym: you have to be memeber to have a ubuntu cloak
[22:46] <tinym> ahh, ok
[22:47] <tinym> thought ubuntu women goup was member of ubuntu project
[22:47] <tinym> thanks
[22:47] <erUSUL> tinym: no problem


[00:00] <davecheney> arguably this function is serving two masters
[00:00] <davecheney> so there will be some uglyness
[01:14] <wallyworld_> thumper: tests pass in raring now :-D https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/juju-core/fix-raring-tests/+merge/153488
[01:14] <thumper> wallyworld_: seriously?
[01:14] <thumper> you're my hero if it works
[01:14]  * thumper grabs the branch
[01:15] <wallyworld_> thumper: works for me, ymmv
[01:16] <wallyworld_> i had the same issues as you, so easy to see it was fixed or not
[01:18]  * thumper wonders if his raring branches for goamz and goose are recent enough
[01:19] <thumper> I'd love not to have to work in that VM
[01:19] <thumper> it is a PITA
[01:19] <wallyworld_> thumper: i have goose trunk (tip) and whatever goamz i got a while ago and it's all good for me
[01:19] <davecheney> wallyworld_: thumper i fixed all the issues I could find in atlanta
[01:19] <davecheney> nobody can replicate your git problem
[01:19] <davecheney> which is le shit
[01:19]  * wallyworld_ can
[01:19] <davecheney> ORLY
[01:20] <thumper> davecheney: wallyworld_ has
[01:20] <wallyworld_> davecheney: https://code.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/juju-core/fix-raring-tests/+merge/153488
[01:20] <davecheney> ther was the one with the message difference
[01:20] <wallyworld_> fixed :-)
[01:20] <wallyworld_> fixed too
[01:20]  * wallyworld_ now has a clean test run under raring
[01:21] <thumper> davecheney: I think https://codereview.appspot.com/7809043/ is ready now
[01:21] <davecheney> thumper: ta
[01:25] <thumper> wallyworld_: umm... your tests have hung
[01:25] <wallyworld_> some do take a while for me
[01:25] <thumper> go test ./... is hanging
[01:25] <wallyworld_> but they always have
[01:25] <wallyworld_> the uniter ones take ages
[01:25] <thumper> this has been over 5 minutes
[01:25] <thumper> and stuck in one place
[01:25] <thumper> normally faster than that for me
[01:25] <wallyworld_> which place?
[01:26] <thumper> whatever comes after cmd/charmload
[01:26] <thumper> which may not be where it is stuck
[01:26] <wallyworld_> the changes are/should be very unobtrusive
[01:26] <thumper> as it is using buffered i/o
[01:26] <wallyworld_> just setting some env vars
[01:26] <wallyworld_> mine has always "stalled" after charmload
[01:26] <wallyworld_> even before the changes
[01:29] <wallyworld_> thumper: these ones for me always take a while
[01:29] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/cmd/juju        65.754s
[01:29] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/cmd/jujud       38.378s
[01:29] <wallyworld_> they are logged always just after charmload
[01:30] <wallyworld_> also these
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/state   29.673s
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ?       launchpad.net/juju-core/state/api       [no test files]
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/state/api/params        0.006s
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/state/apiserver 59.152s
[01:30] <wallyworld_> ok      launchpad.net/juju-core/worker/uniter   67.571s
[01:31] <thumper> I'm pulling latest bits, and will try again
[01:31] <thumper> your branch doesn't look wrong
[01:31] <thumper> must be something else
[01:31] <wallyworld_> did you try rerunning?
[01:32] <wallyworld_> thumper: funny, i just ran the juju tests with gocheck.vv and it took ~40 seconds even with all the extra trace, as opposed to 65s above
[01:33]  * thumper runs with gocheck.vv
[01:33] <wallyworld_> you can't to that at the top level and recurse afaik
[01:33] <davecheney> .vv == vroom vroom ?
[01:33] <thumper> theoretically .vv means unbuffered I/O
[01:33] <thumper> but I think it lies
[01:33] <thumper> very verbose :)
[01:33] <wallyworld_> yeah
[01:33] <thumper> seems to be stuck in the same place
[01:33] <thumper> normally the command tests use all my cores
[01:34] <thumper> but running at virtually 5%
[01:34] <wallyworld_> blocked on i/o i guess
[01:34] <thumper> no, just not doing anything
[01:34] <davecheney> *cough* sleep *cough*
[01:34] <thumper> wallyworld_: have you tested in raring?
[01:35] <davecheney> back in lisbon a lot of test failures were hit with the sleep hammer
[01:35] <thumper> because this is broken for me
[01:35] <wallyworld_> thumper: i am running raring
[01:35] <thumper> hmm...
[01:35] <wallyworld_> and i could reproduce you git failures
[01:35] <thumper> wondering if I've hit a different race condition
[01:35]  * thumper has a fast machine
[01:35]  * wallyworld_ has a slower machine and a smaller penis
[01:36] <wallyworld_> thumper: maybe try and underclock your cpus and see what happens?
[01:36] <thumper> wallyworld_: how would I do that?
[01:37] <wallyworld_> power settings - battery mode?
[01:37] <wallyworld_> or cpu greq select?
[01:37] <wallyworld_> freq
[01:37] <thumper> hmm...
[01:37] <thumper> poos
[01:37] <thumper> still stuck
[01:37] <thumper> killed it
[01:38] <thumper> at 5 minutes of wall time
[01:38] <thumper> I wish there was a way to send it a signal and get it to dump where it was at
[01:38] <wallyworld_> yeah
[01:38] <wallyworld_> maybe paste the vv output?
[01:38] <thumper> nothing to see
[01:39] <thumper> ?   	launchpad.net/juju-core/cmd/charmload	[no test files]
[01:39] <thumper> that was the last output
[01:39] <thumper> davecheney: should I have any mongod process running after the tests have finished?
[01:39] <thumper> I have one
[01:39] <thumper> should I kill it?
[01:40] <wallyworld_> thumper: you need to cd to just the juju tests
[01:40] <wallyworld_> to use gocheck.vv
[01:40] <wallyworld_> since ./... and gocheck args don't work together
[01:40] <thumper> seriously?
[01:40]  * thumper sighs
[01:40] <thumper> which ones were failing before/
[01:40] <thumper> ?
[01:41] <wallyworld_> thumper: the git tests
[01:41] <wallyworld_> are the easiest to see
[01:41] <davecheney> thumper: no, but they do leak
[01:41] <wallyworld_> also the uniter ones
[01:41] <wallyworld_> and deployer ones
[01:41] <davecheney> i go thought and clean them up
[01:41] <davecheney> or learn not to ^C the tests
[01:42] <wallyworld_> davecheney: question, this had be stumped - cmd/jujud/unit_test.go:20: s.agentSuite.SetUpSuite(c)  <--- i had to add this and didn't know why the call just didn't drop through
[01:42] <wallyworld_> why does aliasing the import fix it?
[01:43]  * davecheney scrolls back to find the CL
[01:43] <davecheney> wallyworld_: it's not aliasing
[01:44] <davecheney> hang on
[01:44] <davecheney> which file are we talking about ?
[01:44] <wallyworld_> unit_test.go
[01:44] <wallyworld_> i misread the diff a bit
[01:44] <thumper> wallyworld_: stuck here http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5615399/
[01:45] <wallyworld_> davecheney: you wanted testing.GitSuite renamed to GitSuite
[01:45] <davecheney> wallyworld_: right, sorry was looking at wrong CL
[01:45] <davecheney> it's not renaming, it is giving it a name
[01:45] <davecheney> at the moment both fields in the struct are anonymous
[01:45] <davecheney> which embeds them
[01:45] <wallyworld_> but i don't understand why that is needed and why i had to add the explicit call throughs
[01:46] <davecheney> however that creates and ambiguity on who defines the embedded UnitSuite.SetUpSuite
[01:46] <wallyworld_> thumper: you have thr wrong mongo
[01:46] <thumper> ah... wat?
[01:46] <wallyworld_> thumper: you need to install the one from the tarball and set your path to that one
[01:46] <wallyworld_> thumper: since ssl is not supported in the packaged version
[01:46] <davecheney> thumper: yes, don't use mongo 2.0 from raring
[01:47] <thumper> Installed: 1:2.2.3-0ubuntu1
[01:47] <wallyworld_> and something about lawyers says we can't add ssl
[01:47] <davecheney> thumper: bzzt, that one does not have ssl enabled
[01:47] <thumper> wallyworld_: I think the lawyers are still arguing
[01:47] <thumper> clucking bell
[01:47] <thumper> juju dev sucks the big kumara
[01:47] <wallyworld_> yeah, sucks balls
[01:47] <thumper> didn't bigjools have a ppa somewhere
[01:47] <wallyworld_> this is out of our control sadly
[01:47] <thumper> I don't like the tar ball answer
[01:48] <wallyworld_> yes, believe so
[01:48] <davecheney> wallyworld_: by giving testing.GitSuite a name, you break the ambiguity
[01:48] <bigjools> I do
[01:48] <thumper> wallyworld_: nothing is out of our control
[01:48] <thumper> we control EVERYTHING
[01:48] <thumper> bigjools: you may need to rebuild
[01:48] <thumper> bigjools: plzfix
[01:48]  * davecheney contols both the horizontal and the vertical
[01:48] <wallyworld_> davecheney: ah thanks, i 'll re-read the code with that though in mind. i need to think about it so i fully grasp it
[01:48] <bigjools> thumper: hmmm?
[01:48] <davecheney> thumper: that osn't bigjools' version, it's coming from raring
[01:48] <davecheney> wallyworld_: no worries
[01:49] <bigjools> mine has SSL
[01:49] <thumper> yeah.. I know
[01:49] <thumper> bigjools:  needs to make a new one
[01:49] <bigjools> pebkac
[01:49] <davecheney> the other part of the solution is, when you embed a structure, its field name is the name of the structure
[01:49] <bigjools> thumper: what's up with it?
[01:49] <thumper> hmm...
[01:49] <wallyworld_> thumper: so now you can +1 my mp when i fix davecheney's issues
[01:49] <davecheney> so by naming testing.GitSuite, GitSuite, none of the rest of the code notices, as that was what it called it originally
[01:49] <wallyworld_> :-)
[01:49] <thumper> perhaps the ppa has been disabled
[01:50] <davecheney> thumper: bigjools packaged 2.2.2
[01:50] <bigjools> apt-cache policy .... tells you all
[01:50] <davecheney> raring offers 2.2.3
[01:50] <davecheney> ^ sorta guess
[01:50] <thumper> and the ppa was disabled on upgrade
[01:50] <thumper> bigjools: make a new one and I'll buy you a beer
[01:50]  * wallyworld_ is glad he just used the barball
[01:50] <wallyworld_> tarball
[01:50] <bigjools> arf
[01:50] <davecheney> wallyworld_: right first time
[01:51] <wallyworld_> hah
[01:51] <thumper> but I don't want to use the dumb tarball
[01:51] <davecheney> my favorite mongo feature is the 60hz timer it sets up
[01:51] <thumper> wallyworld_: where are the instructions?
[01:51] <davecheney> specifically to waste your battery
[01:51] <davecheney> thumper: they _should_ be in the README
[01:51]  * davecheney scratched head
[01:51] <wallyworld_> thumper: not sure, i just figured it out - untar to /opt (say) and update yuor path
[01:52] <thumper> it just feels SO wrong, that I'm resisting
[01:52] <davecheney> thumper: they would ahve to be in the README (checking)
[01:52] <thumper> until we get a better solution
[01:52] <davecheney> we onboarded so many juju devs in Atlanta
[01:52]  * bigjools agrees with thumper
[01:52]  * wallyworld_ agrees too
[01:52] <wallyworld_> but we encountered some resistence trying to change it
[01:53]  * davecheney also agrees, but points the phalanax of lawyers that lie between us and our desired solution
[01:53]  * thumper gathers all his toys in one corner
[01:53] <bigjools> yeah I only built for quantal
[01:53] <davecheney> bigjools: that would be it
[01:53] <bigjools> I'll do another
[01:53] <thumper> bigjools: awesome, ta
[01:54] <thumper> davecheney: who can I poke to make this go faster?
[01:54] <thumper> there is that long email thread
[01:54] <thumper> but I'm prepared to go higher
[01:54]  * thumper is sick of it
[01:54] <davecheney> thumper: antonio and jamespage have identified themselves as the owner of the issue
[01:55] <bigjools> go thumper, go thumper, go thumper.... oooo yeaahhhh go girl
[01:55] <davecheney> the last status update I got said they were waiting on 10gen to do something for them
[01:55]  * thumper goes to look them up on the direcdtory
[01:55] <davecheney> so, we're waiting on the good graces of the 10gen lawyers
[01:55] <davecheney> GLWT
[01:55] <thumper> davecheney: in which cases they'll be waiting forever
[01:55] <davecheney> exactly
[01:55] <thumper> ...
[01:56] <davecheney> thumper: are you cc'ed on that email thread
[01:56] <thumper> davecheney: yeah, and I'm about to reply and start kicking tires
[01:56] <davecheney> go thumper go
[02:01] <thumper> ok, it seems that james did create a version for raring, but it has been superseded by the raring release
[02:02]  * thumper emails everyone
[02:02] <bigjools> thumper: an ssl version?
[02:02] <thumper> yeah
[02:02] <thumper> according to the email
[02:02] <bigjools> I'll build anyway
[02:05] <bigjools> hmmm
[02:06] <thumper> bigjools: how long will it take?
[02:07] <bigjools> thumper: iirc about 30-60 mins
[02:07] <thumper> ok... I'll wait
[02:07] <thumper> and use your one
[02:07]  * bigjools can bump ppa priority :)
[02:07] <thumper> \o/
[02:07] <bigjools> in fact there's a little know changelog trick to get more priority too
[02:07] <bigjools> known*
[02:19] <wallyworld_> davecheney: thanks for the review - with the empty SetupSuite() methods, I cargo culted those from elsewhere. So I guess those other places should be fixed too at some point
[02:20] <davecheney> wallyworld_: stick a card in leankit to refactor that shit
[02:21] <wallyworld_> will do
[02:21] <davecheney> the contract for gocehck.Suite() takes an interface{}
[02:21] <davecheney> so there is no requirement for every Suite to have those methods
[02:21] <davecheney> they are only needed if used
[02:21] <davecheney> and empty ones dont' really help
[02:21] <davecheney> apart from that, get thumper to LGTM
[02:21] <wallyworld_> yeah, i thought so too, but figured it must have been needed for some reason/convention
[02:21] <davecheney> then you'll be in sweet sweet raring heaven
[02:22] <wallyworld_> oh yeah :-)
[02:22] <davecheney> wallyworld_: i think you were right wen you said cargo cult
[02:22] <wallyworld_> it happens if one is a bit unsure when implementing something and one assumes that what was done before was correct :-)
[02:23] <wallyworld_> and yet we have two +1's required
[02:23] <wallyworld_> so it seems stuff still slips through
[02:25] <davecheney> wallyworld_: i don't think you want to argue for quorum on a change request
[02:25] <davecheney> :)
[02:25] <wallyworld_> sure :-) but my point is with two reviewers, perhaps "obvious" stuff could be caught
[02:26] <davecheney> buddha says "when arguing with loved ones, don't bring up the past"
[02:27] <wallyworld_> not meant to be negative, just an observation
[02:27] <davecheney> an observation well made
[02:37] <wallyworld_> davecheney: i only found one place to fix as it turns out - LoggingSuite has empty Setup/TearDownSuite() and a few calls to those - i'll just fix it up as a drive by
[02:37] <davecheney> +1
[02:37] <wallyworld_> thumper: as soon as you +1 my mp, i can land the raring test fixes :-)
[02:38] <thumper> link?
[02:39] <bigjools> thumper: it's building https://launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/+archive/mongodb/+packages
[02:41] <wallyworld_> thumper: https://codereview.appspot.com/7677044/
[02:42] <thumper> wallyworld_: acked
[02:42] <thumper> do it
[02:42] <thumper> land it
[02:42] <thumper> now
[02:42] <wallyworld_> \o/
[02:43] <wallyworld_> thumper: just doing a quick driveby to remove some redundant code, will be done in a few minutes
[02:48]  * davecheney away -- lunch
[02:49] <wallyworld_> davecheney: i've removed the empty setupsuite stuff, but am thinking - perhaps it was done that way so that stuff could be added if required without needed to then go and add setupsuite calls to all the structs which embedd the logging test suite
[02:51] <davecheney> wallyworld_: maybe leave the drivebys for another day
[02:51] <wallyworld_> yeah, i just reverted them :-)
[02:51] <davecheney> i'll just leave this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktbhw0v186Q
[02:51] <davecheney> afk for reals this time
[02:52] <wallyworld_> you are a sadistic man
[02:53] <bigjools> thought it was going to be a rickroll
[02:53] <wallyworld_> or worse
[02:59] <wallyworld_> thumper: can you feel it?
[02:59] <thumper> can I feel what?
[02:59] <bigjools> haha
[03:00] <wallyworld_> that's not the first time someone has said that to me
[03:00]  * bigjools lunches
[03:00] <wallyworld_> thumper: if you give it a oull, it will come
[03:00] <wallyworld_> pull
[03:00] <bigjools> ...
[03:00] <wallyworld_> the raring test fixes i mean
[03:00] <jtv1> oh
[03:00] <jtv1> not his lunch?
[03:00] <wallyworld_> you all have dirty minds
[03:01] <thumper> wallyworld_: I need bigjools's mongo branch first
[03:01] <bigjools> well given who was saying it ...
[03:01] <thumper> and I'm kinda busy actually working
[03:01] <wallyworld_> sure, just letting you know :-)
[03:01] <jtv> wallyworld_: except Julian, who has dirty hands.
[03:01] <wallyworld_> lol
[03:01]  * bigjools wipes
[03:01] <jtv> ...
[03:01] <wallyworld_> bigjools: on the curtains?
[03:02] <jtv> That's it.  No food for me this lunchtime.
[03:02] <bigjools> thumper: at least 30mins left to build
[03:02] <bigjools> it takes an hour
[03:02]  * bigjools heads off
[03:02] <jtv> Meanwhile, a question for the juju experts: we need to implement EnvironProvider.InstanceId() for the maas provider, but the EnvironProvider has no idea what maas it's supposed to talk to.
[03:04] <jtv> It's not like the ec2 provider where you have a fixed IP address for the metadata service.
[03:04] <wallyworld_> jtv: in the vm world, it is the machine id on which the provider is running
[03:04] <jtv> So... the bootstrap node?
[03:04] <wallyworld_> yeah
[03:05] <wallyworld_> and others too i think
[03:05] <jtv> :(
[03:05] <wallyworld_> the id is used to update the state
[03:05] <wallyworld_> so the agent can see that the machine has been provisioned
[03:05] <wallyworld_> i think
[03:05] <jtv> The fact that the method lives on EnvironProvider suggests that no provider needs to be running.
[03:05] <jtv> Otherwise it'd be on Environ, where we have a real chance of getting the information required.
[03:05] <wallyworld_> yes
[03:06] <wallyworld_> this is done before that happens
[03:06] <jtv> Damn.
[03:06] <wallyworld_> on ec2 and openstack, there's the metadata service
[03:06] <wallyworld_> which provides this
[03:06] <jtv> On MAAS too, but at this point we don't know its address.
[03:06] <wallyworld_> :-(
[03:07] <wallyworld_> i *think* the update of the state can be delayed
[03:07] <wallyworld_> till the provider starts
[03:07] <wallyworld_> but you'd need to talk to william
[03:07] <jtv> pleasesaygrantpleasesaygrantpleasesaygrant
[03:08]  * jtv is in a timezone far, far from the UK
[03:08] <wallyworld_> readereadereadereade
[03:08] <jtv> buggerbuggerbuggerbugger
[03:08] <wallyworld_> the main other person who would know is also in the uk
[03:08] <thumper> haha
[03:08] <jtv> uk...  ISO country code for:
[03:08] <jtv> Ukraine
[03:08] <jtv> That helps
[03:08] <thumper> no it isn't
[03:09] <jtv> ?
[03:09] <wallyworld_> i meant england
[03:09] <jtv> gb == united kingdom of great britain & northern ireland
[03:09] <jtv> wallyworld_: I figured.  Just doing some wishful thinking
[03:10] <wallyworld_> jtv: right now, i can't see why it has to be the environprovider which provides that info - i think some refactoring could fix the problem
[03:11] <wallyworld_> but i don't fully appreciate the finer details of the workflow to offer practical advice and understanding of the consequences
[03:11] <jtv> That would mean the world to us at this stage.  We're currently stuck on this.
[03:11] <wallyworld_> jtv: maybe send an email to the list - william is good at responding
[03:12] <jtv> Yes, he is.  Thanks, I'll do that.
[03:12] <wallyworld_> hopefully can be sorted for next week
[03:14] <jtv> We have until...  This evening.  :/
[03:14] <jtv> I'm putting together the email now.
[03:23] <bigjools> jtv: iso country codes are fucked
[03:24]  * bigjools relurks
[04:13] <thumper> jtv: UKRAINE   A2 = UA    A3 = UKR
[04:14] <thumper> jtv: however UK is not a 2 character country code for anything
[04:14] <jtv> !
[04:14] <jtv> Damn.
[04:14] <jtv> Well, I apologize.
[04:14]  * thumper was bored so looked it up
[04:15] <thumper> given that domains for the uk finish with .uk
[04:15] <thumper> you'd think it was the iso code
[04:15] <thumper> but you were right on the .gb
[04:15] <thumper> which I don't think anyone sues
[04:15] <thumper> uses
[04:15] <thumper> jtv: perhaps ukraine and UK got together and agreed that neither should have 'UK'
[04:15] <thumper> just to piss everyone off
[04:16] <davecheney> thumper: you asked for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10
[04:16] <thumper> davecheney: that's ok
[04:16] <thumper> davecheney: I did think for a minute that you were rick rollingme
[04:16] <davecheney> didn't the ukraine used to be called something else ?
[04:16] <thumper> davecheney: like the USSR?
[04:17] <davecheney> thats the one
[04:17] <thumper> before it got broken into little pieces
[04:17] <jtv> Well they were a republic within the USSR.
[04:17] <jtv> Not an "independent republic" — those were parts of Russia and did not have the theoretical right of secession.
[04:17]  * davecheney does not want to give the northern territory it's own top level domain
[04:18] <jtv> .aunt?
[04:18] <davecheney> next thing you know we'd give QLD .xxxx
[04:18] <jtv> ?
[04:19] <davecheney> http://www.xxxx.com.au/
[04:20] <jtv> Phew.  I was taking a risk by loading up that one...
[04:20] <jtv> A neighbour had a visit from the MIB about having looked at Wikileaks.
[04:20] <jtv> But this ain't so bad.  :)
[04:21] <thumper> which leads me to the joke: why do australians put four X's on their beer?
[04:21] <davecheney> jtv: GTFO
[04:21] <thumper> a) because they can't spell beer
[04:21] <jtv> Sounds good.    But they were from the government and they were not friendly.
[04:21] <thumper> I heard that amazon have bought up .book .author and something else
[04:22] <thumper> wow
[04:22] <davecheney> .cloud ?
[04:22] <thumper> don't recall
[04:22] <thumper> bigjools: built?
[04:22] <jtv> I always wanted to have to gov't agencies visi and ostro here: ostro.go.th & visi.go.th.
[04:22] <davecheney> i remember the freeforall back in '98 when you could buy a $.com without having to own the trademark
[04:22]  * bigjools points thumper to the fine url from earlier
[04:23]  * thumper scrolls back looking for the url
[04:25] <bigjools> published an hour ago
[04:25] <bigjools> mmm lunchtime dip in the pool was very nice
[04:29] <thumper> hmm...
[04:29] <thumper> doesn't fix the problem
[04:29] <thumper> tests still sit doing nothing
[04:30] <wallyworld_> thumper: error message?
[04:30] <thumper>  unknown option sslOnNormalPorts
[04:30] <wallyworld_> you sure the new one is being used?
[04:30] <wallyworld_> that implies it's still using the old one
[04:30] <thumper>  Installed: 1:2.2.3-0ubuntu2+ssl
[04:31] <wallyworld_> hmmm
[04:31]  * wallyworld_ has no idea
[04:31] <thumper> hmm, just installed mongodb, think i need the other three package
[04:31] <thumper> I thought it would do that
[04:31] <wallyworld_> i just untarred the tarball for mine - perhaps everything was included
[04:32] <wallyworld_> but i could have sworn there was just a single mongodb dir in there
[04:33] <wallyworld_> jtv: you sent your email to the list?
[04:34] <jtv> wallyworld_: you didn't see it?  I may have had the wrong email account active.  Let me retry.
[04:34] <thumper> wallyworld_: working now
[04:34] <wallyworld_> thumper: \o/
[04:34] <wallyworld_> what did you change, just install the extra packages
[04:35] <wallyworld_> jtv: yeah, didn't see it so thought i'd ask in case you mis sent it
[04:35] <thumper> yeah, just also installed mongodb-clients mongodb-dev mongodb-server
[04:35] <wallyworld_> it that all?
[04:35] <thumper> I thought that installing mongodb would bring in the others
[04:35] <thumper> yes
[04:35] <wallyworld_> i was trying to be sarcastic :-)
[04:35] <thumper> wallyworld_: I do get some failures though
[04:35] <wallyworld_> :-(
[04:35] <thumper> but I think they are timing related
[04:36] <wallyworld_> so re running, different results?
[04:36] <thumper> cmd/jujud OOPS: 29 passed, 1 skipped, 2 FAILED, 3 FIXTURE-PANICKED, 14 MISSED
[04:36] <wallyworld_> 5 failures, not good
[04:37] <jtv> Thanks for checking, wallyworld_
[04:37] <wallyworld_> np
[04:37] <thumper> wallyworld_: is it in trunk now?
[04:37] <thumper> I'll get trunk and try again
[04:37] <wallyworld_> yah
[04:39] <thumper> nope, still failing tests for me
[04:40]  * thumper runs all again and pastebins...
[04:40]  * thumper takes kids to get fud
[04:44] <wallyworld_> pastebin?
[05:36]  * wallyworld_ off to parent teacher interview, bbiab
[10:23] <rogpeppe> fwereade: you've got a couple of reviews
[10:23] <fwereade> rogpeppe, lovely, tyvm
[10:24] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i've got the next stage in the allWatcher out for review, if you fancy a look. it's all easy after that one. https://codereview.appspot.com/7594048/
[10:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, I don't think I'll manage to do that properly before this afternoon, I'm a little bit involved with environs at the moment
[10:57] <rogpeppe> fwereade: np
[10:57] <fwereade> rogpeppe, sorry, I had the beginnings of a go, but I need to use all my RAM to understand the whole thing clearly
[10:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: thanks. yeah, it's a little bit involved. not bad in the end, i think, but needs some thought.
[10:59] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i have reasonable confidence it's well tested, at any rate :-)
[11:03] <rogpeppe> (that was by no means a backhanded reference to the destroy service tests BTW)
[11:20] <fwereade> rogpeppe, haha, np, I didn't take it as such ;p
[11:25] <rogpeppe> fwereade: are you planning to start designating reviewers,
[11:25] <rogpeppe> BTW?
[11:48] <fwereade> rogpeppe, mramm has assigned that card to himself
[11:48] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, cool
[11:48] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i hadn't seen the card :-)
[11:49] <fwereade> rogpeppe, dimitern added it, mramm grabbed it -- it's like a well-oiled machine :)
[11:49] <dimitern> :)
[11:49]  * rogpeppe was well-oiled last night
[11:49] <rogpeppe> :-)
[11:50] <dimitern> fwereade: tickets confirmed
[11:50] <fwereade> dimitern, awesomeness, tyvm
[11:50] <dimitern> fwereade: I'll update the wiki as well
[11:50] <fwereade> dimitern, yu rock
[11:51] <dimitern> fwereade: no worries :)
[11:52] <dimitern> have you had a chance to look at yesterday's CL ?
[11:54] <dimitern> fwereade: ?
[11:55] <fwereade> dimitern, whoops, sorry
[11:55] <fwereade> dimitern, I don't see it in +activereviews, from what I saw I think it's ready to repropose without -wip
[11:56] <dimitern> fwereade: hmm.. I did not specify -wip last time - once you specify it does it stick? -wip=false is needed or smth?
[11:57] <fwereade> dimitern, hm, it's just at the bottom of the page for no clear eason
[11:57] <fwereade> dimitern, sorry
[11:58] <dimitern> fwereade: np
[12:06]  * fwereade lunch
[12:35] <rogpeppe> dimitern: some code to review, if you wanna: https://codereview.appspot.com/7594048/
[12:42] <dimitern> rogpeppe: on it
[12:42] <rogpeppe> dimitern: thanks!
[12:44] <wallyworld_> rogpeppe: fwereade: i'd love a chat on the logging stuff. i hate email exchanges in code reviews, so impersonal
[12:45] <rogpeppe> wallyworld_: yes, that would be great
[12:45] <fwereade> wallyworld_, rogpeppe: sgtm, when is good? now?
[12:45] <rogpeppe> now would be good for me
[12:45] <wallyworld_> good for me, then i can go to bed
[12:45] <fwereade> rogpeppe, wallyworld_: ok, I'll start a hangout
[12:46] <fwereade> rogpeppe, wallyworld_: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/09c5551027db88904e9a62bd3da34b261f46407b?authuser=0&hl=en
[12:46] <dimitern> wallyworld_: fwiw I agree with the suggestions about splitting the syslogd support from log.*f() refactoring and replacing all around the code - it needs to be done carefully
[12:47] <wallyworld_> it's already split
[12:47] <mgz> can I join and lurk too?
[12:47] <dimitern> wallyworld_: oh, great then
[13:54] <dimitern> fwereade: ping
[13:55] <fwereade> dimitern, pong -- sorry, it's still not done, I'm going to have to do reviews after the meeting
[13:55] <dimitern> fwereade: ah, the meeting, yes - np
[14:04] <bac> rogpeppe: ping
[14:17] <dimitern> bac: they have a kanban meeting at the moment
[14:17] <bac> dimitern: thanks.  no rush.
[14:39] <fwereade> rogpeppe, is https://codereview.appspot.com/7417051/ abandoned?
[14:47] <rogpeppe> fwereade: no, i'll fix the file close issue and submit
[14:47] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i think it's still worth doing
[14:47] <fwereade> rogpeppe, +1
[14:48] <fwereade> dimitern, basically LGTM, but the SetCharm move is important, ping me if there's uncertainty
[14:49] <fwereade> rogpeppe, how about https://codereview.appspot.com/7610044/ ?
[14:56] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, i thought i'd submitted that one.
[14:57] <rogpeppe> fwereade: it really needs to go in.
[14:58] <rogpeppe> fwereade: oh, i remember, i started running tests and got diverted
[15:03] <bac> hi rogpeppe, would you have time to look at a branch that is behaving oddly?  perhaps we could have a hangout to chat.
[15:04] <rogpeppe> bac: definitely.
[15:04] <rogpeppe> bac: anytme
[15:04] <rogpeppe> time
[15:04] <rogpeppe> fwereade: both those branches now submitted
[15:04] <bac> rogpeppe: it is at https://codereview.appspot.com/7610046
[15:04] <fwereade> rogpeppe, cheers
[15:04] <rogpeppe> bac: ha ha, you've got the .THIS deletion too.
[15:05] <bac> yep
[15:05] <bac> rogpeppe: starting hangout
[15:09] <dimitern> fwereade: cheers
[15:10] <rogpeppe> fwereade: could you join us for a moment to verify some stuff about DestroyRelation, please? https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/ade743831e17fc93a3d824612a93e8004534fcdd?authuser=0&hl=en
[15:18]  * dimitern lunch
[15:49] <fwereade> rogpeppe, bac: working as intended, a unit of wordpress enters scope in setupScenario and thus has a reference to the relation
[15:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah! of course, that's the difference between the two places
[15:49] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i'm stupid - i should have realised that
[15:50] <fwereade> rogpeppe, took me a little while to twig :)
[15:50]  * fwereade is relieved
[15:50] <rogpeppe> fwereade: always good to review the code again, eh? :-)
[15:50] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yeah :)
[15:51] <fwereade> bac, so go ahead and propose -- maybe add a comment to that effect so it's clear for readers
[15:51] <rogpeppe> fwereade: 1
[15:51] <rogpeppe> +1
[15:56] <fwereade> benji, ping
[15:56] <benji> fwereade: hi
[15:57] <fwereade> benji, https://codereview.appspot.com/7460047/ and https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/juju-core/1130173/+merge/151555 don;t agree on whether it's been submitted -- would you look into it please?
[15:57] <benji> sure; looking
[15:59] <fwereade> benji, tyvm
[16:00] <benji> fwereade: I figured it out.  I had a thinko in which I attempted to lbox propose the wrong branch and it reopened the merge proposal.  I verified that the code is indeed on the trunk and set the MP to Merged.
[16:00] <fwereade> benji, cheers
[16:07] <fwereade> niemeyer, btw you have a couple of approved branches
[16:12] <dimitern> I have a panic on store/ tests in trunk, just pulled
[16:13] <dimitern> anybody seen this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/5616924/ I'm just about to file a bug
[16:14] <dimitern> it's intermittent - I run it again now and it's ok
[16:17] <dimitern> I filed bug 1155681 for it
[16:17] <_mup_> Bug #1155681: intermittent failure (panic) in store/ tests TestBlitzKey <intermittent-failure> <juju-core:New> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1155681 >
[16:23] <hatch> Is there anywhere that documents the relationship between a LP repo and CS path?
[16:23] <niemeyer> fwereade: Thanks!
[16:46] <dimitern> fwereade: moving f.SetCharm before fetching the charm in u.deploy() cause the steady state upgrade uniter tests to fail
[16:47] <fwereade> dimitern, ah, damn, I expected we'd have missed one of them
[16:47] <fwereade> dimitern, I presume they're just using the wrong things to wait for? or seriously broken?
[16:48] <dimitern> fwereade: they're waiting in vain for some time and then it timeouts
[16:50] <fwereade> dimitern, for what? paste me maybe?
[16:50] <dimitern> fwereade: just looking at the log, trying to figure out when.. i'll paste it
[16:51] <fwereade> dimitern, cheers
[16:51] <dimitern> fwereade: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617031/
[16:52] <dimitern> fwereade: the funny thing (which I've seen before) is, that after that test failed the test runner seems stuck and no more test cases are executed (had to ^C it)
[16:52] <fwereade> dimitern, well, that should also be fixed ;p
[16:54] <fwereade> hatch, https://juju.ubuntu.com/docs/internals/charm-store.html has the "Publishing a Charm" section; and m_3 might be in a good position to tell you more
[16:55] <hatch> fwereade: thanks - rogpeppe actually pointed me to the code responsible as well
[16:55] <hatch> thanks
[16:55] <dimitern> fwereade: i agree, but it's something to do with how the uniter tests are executed in general it seems - once all pass it's ok, most of the time when one fails others are not affected - it's probably due to the waiting code
[16:55] <fwereade> dimitern, ISTM that the tests are waiting for the wrong behaviour -- we did change it a bit
[16:56] <fwereade> dimitern, now an attempted upgrade will have the unit's charm set to the target url not the source
[16:57] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, i figured that much
[16:57] <dimitern> fwereade: so we need to carefully refactor all upgrade tests
[16:58] <dimitern> fwereade: *OR* just pass charm: 1 in waitUnit{} where it gets stuck
[16:58] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, if you look at the following test case I think it's clear the omission is just a bug
[16:59] <dimitern> fwereade: :) comments are useful in these cases
[16:59] <dimitern> fwereade: running the tests again now
[16:59] <fwereade> dimitern, if you can think of a comment that would have helped, please feel free to add one :)
[17:00] <dimitern> fwereade: well, not now - but before :)
[17:00] <dimitern> fwereade: now all cases are similar (charm: 1) and all
[17:00] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, I think it was just a bug
[17:01] <fwereade> dimitern, fundamentally racy, but we were lucky for some reason
[17:02] <dimitern> fwereade: adding charm:1 fixed that test, there was another failure in error upgrade tests - same cause, fixed - running again
[17:03] <m_3> hatch: currently lp:~<launchapd-id>/charms/precise/<charm-name>/trunk is the required format for it to show up in the store and then be deployed via `juju deploy cs:~<launchpad-id>/<charm-name>`
[17:04] <hatch> yeah I am going to file a ticket about that - I would like to be able to deploy a charm right from the repo using an absolute path
[17:04] <m_3> hatch: unless you have a compelling reason, stick with LTS charms atm please
[17:05] <m_3> hatch: by all means... there was a bug for that somewhere, dunno if it made it to juju-core
[17:05] <hatch> I'm working on the gui charm right now so requiring me to deploy to a specific branch isn't ideal - it's doable, just not ideal :)
[17:06] <m_3> hatch: we often use a local repo... ~/charms/precise/mycharm is available via `juju deploy --repository ~/charms local:mycharm`
[17:07] <benji> hatch: I'm pretty sure there is a way to deploy the charm against a particular branch of the GUI
[17:08] <hatch> http://paste.ubuntu.com/5617026/
[17:08] <hatch> is apparently the code in question
[17:08] <hatch> doesn't look like it
[17:08] <hatch> ohh gui yes
[17:08] <hatch> charm no
[17:09] <hatch> It's just a minor inconvenience that would be awesome if one could specify an absolute path to a remote branch
[17:09] <m_3> +1
[17:10] <bac> fwereade: thanks for looking.  i'm unclear about your explanation, though.
[17:10] <fwereade> bac, ah, I'm sorry
[17:11] <fwereade> bac, in setupScenario, we call EnterScope on a RelationUnit for wordpress/0
[17:11] <fwereade> bac, this mimics the unit agent joining the relation
[17:11] <fwereade> bac, and adds a reference to the relation
[17:11] <fwereade> bac, I would not be opposed to a setupScenario tweak that immediately leaves scope after entering
[17:11] <bac> so there are more parties to the relationship than just the services, thus causing it to hang around?
[17:12] <bac> fwereade: ok, i'll investigate doing that
[17:13] <fwereade> bac, the reason to enter/leave, rather than to do nothing, is because it's a subordinate relation: subordinate units are created on-demand, when there's a relevant principal participating in the relation
[17:14] <rogpeppe> fwereade: i wouldn't mind that, i think.
[17:14] <fwereade> rogpeppe, cool, I have done that in one or two places in the past
[17:14]  * rogpeppe still doesn't really understand what "entering scope" implies
[17:14] <fwereade> rogpeppe, becoming visible to ones counterparts
[17:15] <fwereade> rogpeppe, by creating a document whose _id encodes what counterparts ought to be able to see it
[17:16] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ... and creating subordinates, presumably
[17:16] <fwereade> rogpeppe, yes: the txn also includes the creation of a relation unit settings doc; and sometimes a subordinate unit, when one is required for sanity and does not yet exist
[17:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade: so that's not the usual way that subordinate units get created?
[17:17] <fwereade> rogpeppe, that's the only way subordinate units get created
[17:17] <rogpeppe> fwereade: ah, i misread "required for sanity" then
[17:18] <dimitern> fwereade: whoohoo! all passed (after fixing 3 more places with the same issue)
[17:18] <fwereade> rogpeppe, the idea is that each principal is entirely responsible for its own subordinate(s)
[17:18] <fwereade> rogpeppe, the alternatives are icky
[17:18] <mgz> go dimitern
[17:19] <fwereade> rogpeppe, create 100k units when we add a relation?
[17:19] <fwereade> dimitern, yay!
[17:19] <rogpeppe> fwereade: yeah, seems reasonable.
[17:19] <dimitern> mgz: I'm very nearly there - go func() {} - multitasking :)
[17:20] <dimitern> fwereade: reproposed with the changes, if you think it's ready, I'll submit it (have 2 LGTM from TheMue already earlier)
[17:21] <fwereade> dimitern, tbh that first LGTM is no longer valid, there have been a lot of changes
[17:21] <fwereade> dimitern, better to work on merging it into the followup and shaking out what you can
[17:21] <dimitern> fwereade: yeah, I know - I wanted to ask him again, but it seems he's off today
[17:21] <fwereade> dimitern, yeah, back monday
[17:21] <dimitern> rogpeppe: maybe you can take a look? https://codereview.appspot.com/7425044
[17:22] <rogpeppe> dimitern: deep in debugging currently, but will do in a short while
[17:22] <dimitern> rogpeppe: cheers
[17:45] <rogpeppe> fwereade, dimitern: here's the next in line in the allWatcher branches; not too far off now: https://codereview.appspot.com/7815044
[17:45] <dimitern> rogpeppe: will look in 5m
[17:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: now looking at your branch
[17:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: ta!
[17:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: it seems the diff is screwed
[17:46] <dimitern> rogpeppe: (mine, that is) - will repropose it now
[17:46] <rogpeppe> dimitern: thanks - was just about to say
[17:47] <dimitern> rogpeppe: can you see it now?
[17:48] <rogpeppe> dimitern: yup, thanks
[17:49] <dimitern> I suspect this issue occurs when you bzr push (or lbox propose) from a subdir - but don't have enough info to confirm this
[18:00] <rogpeppe> dimitern: reviewed
[18:01] <rogpeppe> right, time for me to go
[18:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe: tyvm
[18:01] <rogpeppe> have a great w/e everyone
[18:01] <dimitern> rogpeppe: g'nite!
[18:01] <rogpeppe> dimitern: toi aussi!


[16:30] <infinity> xnox: Do you have a full d-i checkout you can grep for me?
[16:30] <infinity> cjwatson: Or you?
[16:30] <xnox> infinity: sure.
[16:30]  * infinity is trying to figure out what evil perpetrates the /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/driver-policy hack.
[16:31] <xnox> hmm....
[16:31]  * xnox has debian d-i checkout and only partial ubuntu one. grepping debian one.
[16:31] <infinity> Debian should be fine, it comes from there.
[16:31] <infinity> It was tbm who added it long ago, apparently.
[16:32] <cjwatson> I do
[16:32] <cjwatson> base-installer IIRC
[16:32] <infinity> But damned if I can sort out what component.
[16:32] <cjwatson> Yeah
[16:32] <infinity> Ah-ha.  Thanks.
[16:32] <cjwatson> My memory of d-i is a pretty good grep substitute :)
[16:32] <infinity> It's a bit disturbing, really.
[16:32] <infinity> Do you remember things like your parents' names, or your own shoe size?
[16:32] <xnox> base-installer/library.sh
[16:33] <xnox> cjwatson: beats ack-grep --shell driver-policy
[16:33] <infinity> Right, so THAT's the source of the "crypt root no workie on ARM" bug.
[16:33] <cjwatson> infinity: birthdays are always the killer for me ...
[16:34] <cjwatson> thank google for calendars
[16:34] <infinity> cjwatson: Going to v-done my initramfs-tools upload after some back and forth with a user.
[16:34] <infinity> cjwatson: Who installed in expert mode on x86 and intentionally chose 'dep'. :P
[16:34] <infinity> cjwatson: So, he's all fixed up now.
[16:34] <infinity> cjwatson: And the ARM portion of those bugs is this base-installer default, not initramfs-tools.
[16:35] <cjwatson> fair enough
[16:36] <infinity> I wonder if I should bother changing the base-installer thing, or just tell QA to preseed the value they want.
[16:40] <infinity> cjwatson: Feel free to promote that one whenever.  We need it to not regress cryptroot on the lts-quantal kernels.
[16:40] <infinity> (Or any early boot keyboard support)
[16:41] <cjwatson> which, initramfs-tools?
[16:41] <infinity> Yeah.
[16:41] <cjwatson> bug 1066376 is still open in raring, I see
[16:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1066376 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu) "keyboard doesn't work to enter password with panda and encrypted partitions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1066376
[16:42] <infinity> Lies.
[16:42] <cjwatson> Ah, heh, OK :)
[16:42] <cjwatson> Promoted
[16:43] <infinity> It was reopened when it failed to fix the ARM issue, which is actually the base-installer thing.
[16:43] <infinity> So, yeah.  Tasks twiddled, all good now.
[16:44] <ogra_> sigh ... bug 1109029
[16:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1109029 in udev (Ubuntu) "Depend on linux-initramfs-tools" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1109029
[16:44] <ogra_> do we plan to ever support dracut ?
[16:45] <infinity> Some day, we may bend to the pressure and switch.  That day isn't today.
[16:45] <ogra_> yeah, and surely not this release
[16:45] <xnox> I think the day we run upstrat in initramfs is closer.
[16:45] <xnox> I think the day we run upstart in initramfs is closer.
[16:45] <ogra_> though i guess we'll inherit from debian here nontheless
[16:45] <infinity> maks is getting closer to throwing his hands in the air and ditching initramfs-tools upstream and joining the dark side.
[16:45] <ogra_> shudder
[16:46] <infinity> xnox: I'm still really not sure I grasp the drive for event-based-initramfs.
[16:46] <infinity> I mean, if initramfs had to do anything more complex than "mount a filesystem", maybe.  But the whole point is to get in and out as quickly as possible.
[16:47] <ogra_> well, execpt that they arent anymore for just mount filesystem
[16:47] <infinity> I have a feeling it's one of those specs that started out as a drunken joke.
[16:47] <ogra_> +a
[16:47] <ogra_> you have decryption crap, lvm, raid ...
[16:47] <xnox> infinity: true. So it's to fix the bug of arbitrary nested filesystems case, e.g. lvm's LUKS and RAID-1+0
[16:47] <infinity> ogra_: Eh, I dunno.  The primary prupose is still to find and mount root.
[16:47] <ogra_> evil console setups with cyrillic utf-8
[16:48] <infinity> ogra_: crypt, lvm, raid, is all just finding and mounting root.
[16:48] <xnox> but I'm not sure what else we need it for.
[16:49] <infinity> xnox: I'm not sure I even understand how any of that needs upstart.  We have udev.
[16:49] <ogra_> infinity, well, thats for the day when we move the rootfs into initrd ;)
[16:50] <infinity> Besides, every time the initrd grows, ogra_ loses hair.
[16:50] <ogra_> haha, yeah
[16:50] <xnox> infinity: so the problem with udev is timeouts. you cannot launch get_luks_password() and wait for to return.
[16:50] <infinity> xnox: But you can ask udev to launch it for you when all the bits are in place.
[16:50] <xnox> because udev have something like 30s timeout & there was something of udev not being able to communicate with plymouth/tty
[16:51] <ogra_> "Marking as high as this bug makes dracut impossible to install."
[16:51] <infinity> xnox: Layering upstart on top of udev when your entire usecase is "waiting for devices" is adding complexity where you don't need it.
[16:51] <ogra_> *sigh*
[16:51] <xnox> infinity: true.
[16:51] <infinity> xnox: udev's really, really good at waiting for devices and triggering on events.
[16:51] <xnox> yeah, not so good at waiting for user input and/or have global timeout, e.g. "i give up we have broken system"
[16:52] <xnox> aka no root found....
[16:52] <infinity> That's okay, mountall is a little TOO good at that. :P
[16:52] <xnox> infinity: but I see your point, we can totally make this work with udev alone and enough tinkering.
[16:52] <xnox> infinity: =DDDDDDDDDD
[16:52]  * infinity shakes his fist at complaints about /tmp every third boot.
[16:52] <infinity> I DON'T HAVE A SEPARATE /tmp YOU SILLY THING.
[16:53] <xnox> yeah, I'm confused about those /tmp.
[16:53] <ogra_> get one then !
[16:53] <xnox> slangasek is not in this channel....
[16:53] <infinity> xnox: Good, then we can talk smack.
[16:53] <xnox> hehe =)
[16:53] <xnox> infinity: this channel is logged mind you ;-)
[16:54] <infinity> Sure, but then it's delayed smack.
[16:55] <xnox> "Lately, dracut gathered the ability to use systemd as process 1 in the initramfs. [3]"
[16:55] <infinity> Yeah, I'm not sure that makes it a good idea.
[16:55] <infinity> (I'm not saying it's an awful idea either, but it's unnecessary bloat on some platforms we happen to be paying lots of attention to lately)
[16:56] <xnox> there is also an os-release file specific to initramfs vs real-system
[16:59] <infinity> xnox: Yes, I noticed that.  Signs that your implementation may be broken.


[08:12] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Mantic Daily] has been updated (20230520)
[09:19] <RikMills> Qt 5.15.9 no landed in mantic
[09:20] <RikMills> s/no/now
 Will try it shortly
 main repo? (re @IrcsomeBot: <RikMills> Qt 5.15.9 no landed in mantic)
 i didnt get the update yet
 the archive publisher is often slower than the PPA one
 it will get there
 owh okie
 Qt upgraded


[16:07] <xTEMPLARx> yay!  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10
[16:10] <wrst> xTEMPLARx: does it actually work now? :)
[16:10] <xTEMPLARx> I grabbed the torrent file
[16:10] <xTEMPLARx> and the amd64 iso is downloading
[16:10] <xTEMPLARx> so I'd say yes
[16:12] <wrst> no i mean does the distro actually work, like run without crashing constantly as it did for me i could never even log in correctly during a "beta"
[16:16] <xTEMPLARx> I never got gnome-shell to install properly using the unity-standard 12.10 beta2
[16:16] <xTEMPLARx> so rather than waste time, I waited for the above link to become reality