[00:05] <afflux> Amaranth: DAMN. I have no idea how I got this, but I definetly found the problem. "drwx------ 23 root root 4096 Jul  6 00:14 /"
[00:06] <Amaranth> wow
[00:07] <afflux> puh... that took some time :/ thanks for your help!
[04:04] <darthanubis> how to I set gcc to 4,2 to recompile my nvidia kernel
[04:04] <darthanubis> ?
[05:36] <blind1> mm where is 8.04.1?
[05:42] <blind1> nvm
[05:43] <hyperair> wrong channel imo
[06:56] <darthanubis> the latest II kernel does not bring me to login
[06:56] <darthanubis> only cursor at upper left of screen
[06:57] <hyperair> II kernelL?
[06:57] <hyperair> *kernel
[06:58] <AtomicSpark> my kernal is best. kernal VI.
[06:58] <AtomicSpark> you should upgrade ;)
[06:59] <hyperair> what are you talking about? O_o
[06:59] <AtomicSpark> ...
[06:59] <hyperair> VI?
[06:59] <hyperair> 2.6.26-6?
[07:00] <AtomicSpark> darthanubis: are you selecting the first option when booting your machine? highest kernel number?
[07:00] <darthanubis> yes that kernel
[07:00]  * hyperair feels ignored
[07:00] <darthanubis> I upgraded from Hardy
[07:00] <darthanubis> I did not use a cd
[07:01] <darthanubis> I'm using Hardy's kernel now
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> darthanubis: upgrades have never been a good idea in my experince. i always had problem. nothing like yours though.
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> (mostly from unneccessary packages)
[07:01] <darthanubis> trying to get my nvidia driver running in full glx
[07:02] <darthanubis> I always have problems as well
[07:02] <darthanubis> nothing I don't overcome
[07:02] <darthanubis> I don't believe in starting from scratch every release
[07:02] <AtomicSpark> darthanubis: just to make sure, you know intrepid is uberalpha and lots of things are broken correct?
[07:02] <darthanubis> I work through the problems
[07:03] <AtomicSpark> meh. i break too many things by trying to add non-repo software. :p starting over works best.
[07:03] <AtomicSpark> tis what backups are for.
[07:04] <hyperair> darthanubis: nvidia-glx isn't working yet is it
[07:04] <darthanubis> this is my 10th or 12th I stopped counting year running linux. Been with Ubuntu since the begining. I undesratnd what an alpha is:)
[07:04] <darthanubis> hyperair, not that I can tell
[07:04] <AtomicSpark> darthanubis: just making sure. have some whiners in here once in awhile. :P
[07:04] <hyperair> yeah figures
[07:04] <darthanubis> I usually compile my own module from Nvdia's script
[07:05] <hyperair> i see
[07:05] <darthanubis> but I have to set the correct gcc version for the kernel
[07:05] <hyperair> which nvidia driver do you use?
[07:05] <hyperair> new, legacy or uberlegacy?
[07:05] <darthanubis> the beta
[07:05] <hyperair> ah
[07:05] <hyperair> how nice
[07:05] <hyperair> i can't use any of the new drivers
[07:05] <AtomicSpark> you're just a betamaster!
[07:05] <hyperair> only the legacy
[07:05] <darthanubis> I like to bleed;)
[07:06] <AtomicSpark> heh. well my experince with betas and my laptop have never been good. i was actully scared of hardy working on my laptop. :\
[07:06] <darthanubis> Hardy worked for me
[07:06] <darthanubis> but was not as good as the rest
[07:07] <AtomicSpark> virtual machines seemed to be better. havent gotten the alpha past the installer though.
[07:07] <darthanubis> I should have skipped Hardy, but oh well
[07:07]  * AtomicSpark rubs nose
[07:07] <darthanubis> I still have it on my other box
[07:07] <darthanubis> I thought I try II on my mythbox before I wipe it and install Debian Lenny on this box
[07:08] <AtomicSpark> oh i get it. II = intrepid ibix. haha. -_-
[07:08] <darthanubis> yeah
[07:08] <AtomicSpark> wow its late. well i wish you luck. i've never been good at getting propietary drivers to work.
[07:09]  * AtomicSpark caughs ati
[07:09] <AtomicSpark> at least it works without envy now :)
[07:10] <darthanubis> thxx
[08:21] <Daemonik> How does Ubuntu make Xorg go about detecting my monitor settings and what graphics chip I'm using? What is the feature called?
[08:22] <RAOF> Hotplug.
[08:23] <RAOF> For the former (monitor settings): any non-broken monitor for the past decade has reported those values via a mechanism called DDC.
[08:24] <RAOF> This gives fun stuff like physical size, supported resolutions, refresh rates, etc.
[08:24] <RAOF> (There are plenty of broken monitors out there, though, which is annoying).
[08:25] <RAOF> For the latter: PCIID matching, I believe.  Each driver has a list of the PCIIDs of the chips that it can drive, and X uses this to load the appropriate driver.
[08:26] <DanaG> Here's something odd:
[08:26] <DanaG> I plugged a monitor into a Voodoo3 PCI card, and the xorg log showed it getting the right EDID...... yet, Xorg only let it use up to 800x600.
[08:27] <DanaG> Even if I set it to 16-bit color, even.
[08:27] <Daemonik> ROAF Thank you.
[08:28] <DanaG> Too bad synaptics still isn't supported or configurable with input-hotplug.
[08:28] <RAOF> Daemonik: No problem.
[08:29] <RAOF> DanaG: I believe that it's either getting fixed (to not need SHMConfig) or we're going to patch it.
[08:29] <RAOF> DanaG: I seem to recall that Fedora 9 handled synaptics-but-no-xorg.conf fine.
[08:32] <DanaG> My xorg.conf has all sorts of tweaks that currently can't be done any other way.
[08:32] <DanaG> For example, there's no GUI for setting multi-finger tapping or scrolling.
[08:33] <RAOF> I'm not sure that you don't lie; ksynaptics or qsynaptics or whatever exposes many more options than gsynaptics.
[08:34] <DanaG> But they don't work very well, and they aren't integrated.
[08:34] <DanaG> It'd also be good to have a way to set the scrolling region, as in the Windows Synaptics control panel.
[08:34] <RAOF> :(
[08:35] <RAOF> Can you get two-finger-scroll on synaptics?  That'd be awesome.
[08:35] <DanaG> Yup.
[08:35] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/xorg.conf
[08:35] <RAOF> SWEET.
[08:35] <DanaG> yay, the server's back up.
[08:35] <DanaG> I've also gone through and commented stuff.
[08:36] <RAOF> I note you're not using the One True Keymap ;)
[08:36] <DanaG> Whaddaya' mean?
[08:37] <DanaG> But I do like my OSS keypad.
[08:37] <DanaG> ↑↓→←↖↗↗↑←↙
[08:37] <DanaG> ∕⋅−+÷×−+
[08:37] <DanaG> =þ
[08:37] <DanaG> I think I need to make my comments more visible.
[08:37] <RAOF> Dvorak is the One True Keymap. :)
[08:38] <RAOF> Also, cool.
[08:43] <DanaG> "thorn" is awesome for that smiley.
[08:43] <DanaG> þþþþÞÞþÞþÞ
[08:50] <DanaG> I wish that "MDPS" driver would make it into the kernel.
[08:56] <DanaG> I'm surprised nobody else has suggested the time-changing wallpaper thingy on the wiki.
[08:56]  * hyperair wonders if there's such a thing as a pygtk ide
[08:57] <RAOF> hyperair: Yes, there are a number.  Also allowing you to build the gui from objects and view it at the same time.
[08:57]  * DanaG wonders when Nautilus will stop being MIA.
[08:57] <hyperair> RAOF: where can i get a listing of them? i dont' see any in a google search
[08:58] <hyperair> also which would you recommend
[08:58] <RAOF> I've never used any of them, I just know of their existance.
[08:59] <RAOF> I'm sorry, I don't even think I'll be able to help you improve your google sauce.
[09:00] <DanaG> Speaking of which...
[09:00] <DanaG> what exactly is this "SAUCE" I see in the Ubuntu kernel changelogs?
[10:55] <rogue_trader> where can I download a recent build of intrepix ibex?
[11:06] <gnomefreak> rogue_trader: it will be added to the topic once its a bit more usable
[11:07] <molgrum> what's the status on nvidia drivers?
[11:07] <gnomefreak> molgrum: what do you mean?
[11:08] <molgrum> they aren't in the repos yet afaik
[11:09] <gnomefreak> molgrum: yes they are
[11:09] <gnomefreak> nvidia-glx-new: Installed: 169.12+<IP_ADDRESS>-16.34
[11:10] <molgrum> hmm, i'll try to change xorg.conf again then
[11:10] <gnomefreak> molgrum: however you may end up having to make it work
[11:10] <molgrum> make it work?
[11:10] <gnomefreak> molgrum: nvidia has alot of issues. yes make it work if you want to use them
[11:11] <gnomefreak> hint: they have been broken since just after merges started.
[11:12] <gnomefreak> gedit is broken  well as alot of other default packages
[11:12] <molgrum> "2.6.24"
[11:13] <molgrum> i'm running 2.6.26 here
[11:14] <G_009> .3 is out too
[11:15] <gnomefreak> molgrum: yes they work with the .26 kernel but you have to MAKE THEM WORK
[11:15] <G_009> taze'em
[11:15] <molgrum> n'blaze'em
[11:15] <gnomefreak> molgrum: a little hacking of xorg.conf and you should soon be running them
[11:15] <gnomefreak> molgrum: but if you cant fix it dont install intrepid
[11:16] <molgrum> a little late for that
[11:16] <G_009> am waiting til i can just run restricted driver applet and enable..
[11:16]  * G_009 yawns sleepily
[11:16] <molgrum> same here :P
[15:17] <vishalrao> hello, any idea if the "opengl gdm face browser" will be included with intrepid/gnome 2.24 ?
[15:19] <gnomefreak> after august most likely or around the end of it please see gnomes release schedule
[15:21] <Xand3r> hi i uses now intrepid on my laptop
[15:21] <Xand3r> i cant scroll with the tuchpad
[15:22] <Xand3r> how can i get it back
[15:22] <Xand3r> i the kde on intrepid dayly build?
[15:23] <pheeror> sys -> pref -> mouse?
[15:23] <pheeror> oh, in kde, who knows
[15:23] <Xand3r> some funktions of the mous i cant explain with words, but can i get the behavior from hardy back?
[15:23] <Xand3r> its the question now, is the change from ubuntu or from kde
[15:27] <hyperair> since when does sys/pref/mouse have touchpad scrolling opts?
[15:28] <gnomefreak> hyperair: it doesnt afaik but there is a menu item that should help with that. but normally set in xorg.conf IIRC
[15:32] <pheeror> hyperair: since you have laptop ? ;-)
[15:34] <pheeror> you, in intrepid there is laptop tab in that gui utility, for sure
[15:34] <pheeror> s/you/yeah/pff
[15:44] <hyperair> pheeror: i don't have a laptop xD
[15:47] <gnomefreak> hyperair: than you wont need it
[15:47] <gnomefreak> :)
[15:47] <hyperair> i'm getting one soon
[15:48] <hyperair> ;)
[15:53] <zerwas> Does anybody know if there has been some work on making it easier to add sources.list entries?
[15:53] <darthanubis> ok so I got the latest kernel to boot and run
[15:53] <darthanubis> but its the -server model
[15:53] <zerwas> i know there has been an entry on planet.ubuntu.com about that but i don't remember who has written it
[15:53] <darthanubis> it's always like that for me with alpha buntus
[15:54] <gnomefreak> zerwas: easier than using system>admin>software sources?
[15:54] <zerwas> gnomefreak, sure
[15:54] <darthanubis> now if I can get this opengl working I'd be satisfied, for now
[15:54] <gnomefreak> i dont see how you can get any easier
[15:54] <zerwas> gnomefreak, directly from Firefox -> with a click
[15:54] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: fat chance opengl was borked last week not sure if fixed yet
[15:55] <darthanubis> sound is broken, yikes
[15:55] <gnomefreak> zerwas: that would be on my plate than. i will ping the other mozilla maintainers to see what we are doing there
[15:55] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: sound works after 3 commands
[15:55] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: look for hobbsee's latest post on ubuntuforums
[15:56] <gnomefreak> i think i lost the link
[15:56] <darthanubis> when I went to sound prefs, I got the test tones for alsa
[15:56] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: than it works
[15:56] <darthanubis> but when my highlighted xchat messages and gnome startup occurs, I get low scratching
[15:57] <zerwas> gnomefreak, woah, thank you very much!
[15:57] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: that fits under http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=845844&page=2
[15:58] <gnomefreak> sorry its http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=845844
[15:58] <darthanubis> gnomefreak, sweet!
[15:59] <zerwas> gnomefreak, will you tell me if there are efforts to make this possible after you speaked to the maintainers?
[15:59] <gnomefreak> zerwas: please show me that post.
[16:00] <gnomefreak> zerwas: im highly doubting it since it will require root access and running firefox as root will screw up your system
[16:00] <gnomefreak> i would really like to see this post
[16:00] <zerwas> haha no. type this in your adress bar in firefox: apt://ubuntu-restricted-extras
[16:00] <gnomefreak> zerwas: and i just asked asac but hes away
[16:01] <gnomefreak> zerwas: oh good its not firefox than :)
[16:02] <gnomefreak> zerwas: firefox doesnt have anything to do with that
[16:03] <zerwas> gnomefreak, mh ... but e.g. apt-links don't work with epiphany. so it must have to do something with Fx, not?!
[16:03] <gnomefreak> zerwas: its not firefox that is doing it firefox is informing another app of it
[16:03] <zerwas> gnomefreak, sure. but it must be able to do so
[16:03] <gnomefreak> IIRC this is part of ubufox but i will find out
[16:05] <darthanubis> gnomefreak, in that link I don't see a hobbes guy?
[16:05] <zerwas> gnomefreak, there is also http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/6960/ ;-)
[16:06] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: the second link first post is hobbsee and shes a woman
[16:06] <darthanubis> oh, I missed the second link
[16:15] <gnomefreak> zerwas: its apturl that does that.
[16:15] <darthanubis> music streaming and such is perfect
[16:16] <zerwas> gnomefreak, i know
[16:16] <gnomefreak> ubufox and apturl walk hand in hand
[16:16] <darthanubis> but esound events via gnome are still scratch noise
[16:16] <gnomefreak> thats why epiphany doesnt do it
[16:16] <zerwas> gnomefreak, ok
[16:16] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: than check bug reports that is the only sound issue in intrepid at this time that i am aware of
[16:16] <zerwas> gnomefreak, i simply was wondering if anybody in here knows of work being done to be able to add repos easier
[16:17] <gnomefreak> its implemented
[16:17] <zerwas> gnomefreak, really, for a beginner it is not as easy as it looks like to do these 6 clicks and copy and paste those lines
[16:17] <zerwas> gnomefreak, huh?
[16:17] <zerwas> gnomefreak, how? where? what? ;)
[16:17] <gnomefreak> zerwas: you want easier than that
[16:18] <gnomefreak> zerwas: it works just fine (from what i can tell) what exactly are you looking for?
[16:19] <zerwas> gnomefreak, having a webpage saying "click here to install the software and receive updates automatically"
[16:19] <gnomefreak> zerwas: if you cant do it that way or any of the 300 other ways than i think its time to rethink the OS you  use
[16:19] <zerwas> *click* and it adds the lines automatically to the sources.list
[16:19] <gnomefreak> zerwas: cant do that
[16:20] <zerwas> gnomefreak, it's not that *I* am not able to do it ;-) ... i just want to see Ubuntu being easier to use :(
[16:20] <gnomefreak> zerwas: the way it is now is the closest you can come unless root + firefox is rethought
[16:20] <gnomefreak> cant open sources.list without being root to beable to add to it
[16:20] <zerwas> gnomefreak, but you can get from Fx to root with apturl right now. why should it be a problem with sources.list?
[16:21] <gnomefreak> zerwas: because you are talkinhg about viewing than editing and its not a great idea to mix the 2 like that it should either open 1 page in total or none since you want it to be on screen
[16:22] <gnomefreak> zerwas: hint if it was the same thing than you wouldnt be asking about it
[16:22] <gnomefreak> or it is already the easist you can think of
[16:23] <zerwas> hm ... i don't understand.
[16:23] <gnomefreak> IMHO this apturl thing now isnt such a great idea
[16:24] <gnomefreak> zerwas: you said that using firefox to open list as root would be the same as it is with apturl
[16:24] <gnomefreak> zerwas: than apturl is what you are looking for. firefox to open sources.list isnt a good idea just to use apturl it gives people reasons to run it as root
[16:24] <gnomefreak> you know the new users you talk about
[16:25] <zerwas> gnomefreak, hehe ... but i give support on an ubuntu forum often with things like: "click here to solve your problem and to install foobar." ... if i would say: "Install the package foobar through your package manager" many people even don't know what i am talking about because all they know is adding software through "Applications -> Add/Remove"
[16:25] <gnomefreak> the ones that dont know any better?
[16:25] <gnomefreak> zerwas: you can click here in add/remove apps synaptic adept smartpm isnt that enough or would you like all apps to be the same?
[16:26] <gnomefreak> there are more apps i can come up with that do the same but that is example
[16:27] <gnomefreak> its a good idea to keep package manager tasks away from other apps that root isnt needed to run or people will try to run apps as root and we all know what happens there
[16:29] <zerwas> ok. then from your point of view apturl is a bad idea and you won't understand why i would like to see an easy way of adding a repository
[16:30] <hyperair> apturl ftw
[16:31] <gnomefreak> zerwas: i didnt say apturl is bad. apturl makes alot of things easier but you want everything to do it because the way we have are not easy enough
[16:32] <zerwas> hyperair, ... banshee ftw ;-)
[16:37] <hyperair> zerwas: yeaaa =D
[16:37] <zerwas> hyperair, what do you think of my idea?
[16:38] <hyperair> what idea?
[16:38] <hyperair> there's a huge wall of text that i'm lazy to read
[16:38] <hyperair> so please summarize =D
[16:42] <zerwas> hyperair, nah i'm lazy too. and i know you would committed to it ^^
[16:46] <hyperair> T_T
[16:46] <hyperair> damn you
[16:46] <hyperair> zerwas: are you talking about merging apturl and ubufox?
[16:46] <hyperair> or something?
[16:46] <zerwas> hyperair, no i would like to see an easy way for beginners to add a repo with a click out of firefox
[16:47] <hyperair> agreed
[16:47] <hyperair> but apturl would do the job wouldn't it?
[16:47] <hyperair> so apturl oob should be fine?
[16:48] <zerwas> apturl can only use DEB packages that are already in the database
[16:49] <gnomefreak> zerwas: smartpm does rpms as well we dont really encourage users to look outside our sources since we cant support nor promise the work that was done on the package.
[16:50] <gnomefreak> zerwas: easiest way to get it started is to file a blueprint on LP and write a wiki using the template for new ideas
[16:50] <gnomefreak> than mvo can look at it and decide
[16:50] <zerwas> gnomefreak, ye i will be thinking of it
[16:50] <zerwas> thanks :)
[16:51] <hyperair> hmm
[16:51] <hyperair> zerwas: so you want apturl to be able to add stuff to /etc/apt/sources.list.d?
[16:51] <gnomefreak> zerwas: example https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/firefox-distro-addon-support
[16:52] <zerwas> gnomefreak, thanks!
[16:52] <gnomefreak> np
[16:53]  * hyperair wonders what apturl has to do with banshee
[16:53] <gnomefreak> hyperair: nothing thankfully
[16:53] <hyperair> why "thankfully"?
[16:53] <zerwas> hyperair, i mean in order to install 1.0 people have to add a repo
[16:54] <zerwas> gnomefreak, ah so the idea already exists: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AptFirefoxFileHandler
[16:54] <hyperair> aha
[16:54] <hyperair> i see
[16:54] <gnomefreak> hyperair: what would apturl do with banshee to help it? other than make it more buggy
[16:55] <gnomefreak> the more you link apps the more bugs you will find/introduce
[16:55] <hyperair> gnomefreak: banshee isn't very buggy
[16:56] <hyperair> gnomefreak: 1.0.0 was pretty stable
[16:56] <gnomefreak> hyperair: add other apps to it and that will change
[16:56] <hyperair> zerwas was talking about the installation process for banshee 1.0 on hardy
[16:56] <gnomefreak> 1 app works fine by self add another and you will find conflicts
[16:56] <zerwas> right
[16:56] <hyperair> http://edge.launchpad.net/~banshee-team/+archive
[16:56] <hyperair> see that
[16:56] <gnomefreak> zerwas: that is exactly the apturl that has been impletment
[16:57] <hyperair> he wants a one click install
[16:57] <hyperair> similar to opensuse's
[16:57] <zerwas> exactly
[16:57] <hyperair> like instead of posting the wall of text i posted on that page,
[16:57] <hyperair> just a link
[16:57] <hyperair> click here to add the repo and install it
[16:57] <hyperair> bla
[16:57] <hyperair> stuff like that
[16:57] <zerwas> yep.
[16:57] <hyperair> ubuntu is a newbie's distro. stuff like this should be as simple as possible
[16:58] <hyperair> the ubuntu i'd like to see is _the_ distro for the newcomers to linux.
[16:58] <gnomefreak> Implementation:   Beta Available
[16:58] <gnomefreak> it is what you already showed
[16:58] <hyperair> the distro that surpasses windows and macintosh in every aspect of usability
[16:58] <gnomefreak> look at blueprint on LP
[16:59] <gnomefreak> Add a mimetype or protocol hanlder to firefox to allow adding repositories to the system and to install/removal applications. The adding of repositories is important for PPAs in launchpad. The install capability will allow to build community oriented sites similar to gnomefiles.org to allow one-click installs.
[16:59] <gnomefreak> that is what apturl is already doing in intrepid
[16:59] <zerwas> woah, cool :D
[16:59] <gnomefreak> its not refined but its there
[16:59] <hyperair> woo hoo
[16:59] <hyperair> okay
[17:00] <gnomefreak> hence the question what more do you want
[17:00] <hyperair> ask zerwas
[17:00] <zerwas> gnomefreak, nothing :-P
[17:00] <zerwas> didn't know it's in the works for intrepid
[17:00] <gnomefreak> i asked that an hour ago and you kept going like it wasnt already there
[17:00] <gnomefreak> zerwas: you told me about it
[17:00] <zerwas> gnomefreak, then i didn't understand you right. sorry, my english is really bad
[17:01] <zerwas> gnomefreak, i told about a post i read on planet ubuntu and you asked me to search for it, yeah ;)
[17:01] <gnomefreak> apt://ubuntu-restricted-extras is it since ubuntu-restricted-extras is a package
[17:01] <hyperair> yeah like that i think
[17:01] <gnomefreak> add that line to ff and install that package
[17:01] <gnomefreak> same thing
[17:01] <hyperair> apt:ubuntu-restricted-extras?
[17:01] <gnomefreak> ubuntu-restricted-extras is an app
[17:01] <zerwas> i was talking about repos
[17:01] <gnomefreak> app=package
[17:02] <gnomefreak> zerwas: it is going to be more refined but may alloow repos reason repos is bad idea we cant support them so package by package would work best
[17:03] <gnomefreak> 1 package wont void support (only for that one maybe up to 3 packages where as a repo can viod a supported system
[17:03] <gnomefreak> void even
[17:04] <gnomefreak> if michael can do it he will if he finds that it should be dine by repos and it can be but how safe to make it
[17:05] <gnomefreak> if you notice we dont support packages people get from say PPA's or outside repos
[17:05] <hyperair> imo the files that should be dumped in /etc/apt/sources.list.d should be gpg signed, then the signature stripped and it dumped into the directroy.
[17:05] <hyperair> *directory
[17:06] <gnomefreak> just because people package apps doesnt mean they are safe
[17:06] <hyperair> also, a clear warning that it may void your warranty to add a repo may be nice
[17:06] <gnomefreak> or free of bugs
[17:06] <hyperair> so that you provide choice
[17:06] <hyperair> i simply couldn't care about warranty
[17:06] <hyperair> when it comes to ubuntu anyway
[17:06] <gnomefreak> hyperair: your not a user right out of box either
[17:06] <gnomefreak> hyperair: you have been a user for a while
[17:06] <hyperair> hmm?
[17:06] <hyperair> true
[17:07] <gnomefreak> new user will care when they join #ubuntu and are told we cant help you
[17:07] <hyperair> but it's us "users for a while" who should make ubuntu better for "users right out of the box"
[17:07] <hyperair> i never cared about ubuntu's warranty from day one.
[17:07] <gnomefreak> they wont know why and get pissed and dump ubuntu all because someone made it easy to add outside repo
[17:07] <hyperair> even when i first used it
[17:07] <hyperair> dapper drake
[17:07] <hyperair> i just googled my way through
[17:07] <hyperair> i broke X three times and formatted each time becaues i couldn't figur eout how to fix it
[17:08]  * gnomefreak all for making things easy but too easy and you are asking for trouble
[17:08] <hyperair> gnomefreak: that is why a WARNING is good
[17:08] <hyperair> warning, friend. warning
[17:08] <hyperair> warning warning warning
[17:08] <hyperair> got that in yet?
[17:08] <gnomefreak> yeah i will ask Michael about one
[17:08] <hyperair> a warning like how we warn people in gdebi-gtk
[17:08] <gnomefreak> hyperair: did get it a long time ago
[17:08] <hyperair> goody
[17:09] <gnomefreak> hyperair: when was the last time a warning made you think twice about something?
[17:09] <gnomefreak> notice sudo rm -rf /etc/X11/xorg.conf doesnt warn you
[17:10] <gnomefreak> and for you users that dont know what it will do dont run it
[17:10] <gnomefreak> hell dont run it anyway
[17:10] <hyperair> gnomefreak: the warning is there for a reason.
[17:10]  * gnomefreak never used gdebi i dont think
[17:10] <jonpackard> if you're typing in sudo the system assumes you know what you're doing :)
[17:11] <hyperair> gnomefreak: ignoring the warning means signing consent to voiding your warranty
[17:11] <gnomefreak> jonpackard: bad bad assumtion
[17:11] <gnomefreak> jonpackard: new users dont know
[17:11] <gnomefreak> thats why the affectiveness of a warning ;)
[17:11] <hyperair> gnomefreak: put a warning into sudo and us "users for some time" will never forgive the debs
[17:11] <hyperair> *devs
[17:12] <gnomefreak> hyperair: i agree but we need a way to get people to read them IMHO
[17:12] <hyperair> wait. linux mint had an interesting way to do it
[17:12] <jonpackard> this is true.. but they can't have a warning for every harmful command a user might run as root
[17:12] <hyperair> there was a warning for sudo in linux mint
[17:12] <hyperair> if i'm not mistaken
[17:12] <hyperair> the first time you use sudo?
[17:12] <hyperair> or something?
[17:12] <gnomefreak> jonpackard: your right in the sence that it has to be separate
[17:12] <gnomefreak> sense
[17:12] <hyperair> i sudo -rm -rf a long of things you know
[17:13] <hyperair> and i don't appreciate a big fat warning littering my terminal
[17:13] <gnomefreak> all sudo operations could carry same warning as apt already does when changing somet hings
[17:13] <gnomefreak> somethings
[17:13] <hyperair> a first time warning would be good
[17:13] <hyperair> but not more than that
[17:13] <hyperair> but how would you implement that anyway?
[17:13] <gnomefreak> maybe make a way to togglee it off
[17:13] <gnomefreak> toggle
[17:14] <gnomefreak> woudl be done in sudo most likely unless its a simple line in terminal than terminal might beable to output it
[17:14] <gnomefreak> notice when you open terminal for first time it states what sudo is and how to use it
[17:15] <gnomefreak> sa,e concept
[17:15] <gnomefreak> same
[17:15] <hyperair> ah
[17:15] <hyperair> it does?
[17:15] <hyperair> okay
[17:15] <gnomefreak> yes gnome-term does
[17:15] <hyperair> i can't remember, because i've used my home directory for ages
[17:15] <hyperair> i even use it in archlinux
[17:15] <gnomefreak> it started in feisty or gutsy dont remember for sure
[17:16] <hyperair> i don't remember either
[17:39] <jonpackard> Is anybody else having problems with the 2.6.26-3-generic kernel? I'm running an intrepid guest in virtualbox and when I upgraded to kernel 2.6.26-3-generic I get kernel panics on every boot.
[17:44] <darthanubis> I can't get a tty with this .26 kernel
[17:44] <darthanubis> and the static sound is coming from esound/esd
[17:49] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: you didnt set it to alsa and see if it fixes it?
[17:49] <gnomefreak> and i dont have a problem getting a tty with .26-3
[17:49] <hyperair> isn't it pulseaudio?
[17:49] <darthanubis> pulse and alsa work
[17:49] <darthanubis> alsa the best
[17:49] <hyperair> hmm weird
[17:50] <darthanubis> I turned off system sound which seems determined to use esound
[17:50] <darthanubis> gnomefreak, which resolution are your ttys in?
[17:50] <gnomefreak> PA uses alsa i dont think ti will use anything else
[17:50] <darthanubis> I boot with 1024x748
[17:50] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: they are big but i still ge ta tty
[17:50] <gnomefreak> get a
[17:51] <gnomefreak> you said you dont get a tty
[17:51] <darthanubis> I just used startupmanager to set tty to 800x600
[17:51] <darthanubis> I oon't
[17:51] <darthanubis> that does not mean I don't know what the resolution is set at
[17:51] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: you dont get a tty but your ttys are set to 800x600?
[17:52] <darthanubis> no
[17:52] <gnomefreak> last thing to worry about is res of something you dont get
[17:52] <darthanubis> I just set them to 800x600, and have yet to reboot to see if that allows me to get a tty
[17:52] <gnomefreak> why reboot just use alt+cntl+F1 than same with f7 to get back
[17:53] <darthanubis> because that will not ensure change of the tty's resolution?
[17:53] <gnomefreak> this is assuming you have updated kernel and already rebooted into it
[17:53] <darthanubis> as above, I have yet to reboot
[17:53] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: the res isnt why you would be missing it
[17:54] <darthanubis> not my X res
[17:54] <darthanubis> the boot tty res
[17:54] <gnomefreak> the res shouldnt stop you from getting into it
[17:55] <gnomefreak> unless you arte getting an error and i highly doubt the res will affect you getting into a tty
[17:55] <darthanubis> what good is it to get into, and not be able to see text?
[17:55] <pheeror> kernel mode-setting ftw
[17:55] <darthanubis> all I get is a cursor in the upper left of the screen
[17:55] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: if you are not able to get into it the res isnt your problem
[17:56] <gnomefreak> who cares what size the res is if you cant open a tty it wouldnt matter if you cant se eit
[17:57] <gnomefreak> cursor doesnt mean you are in tty it should load to a login or atleast give you an error like a busybox error
[17:57] <darthanubis> I figured there is a tty there, I just can't see the text
[17:57] <darthanubis> now why would I not be able to see the text?
[17:57] <darthanubis> this has happened before
[17:57] <darthanubis> and changing the kernel video mode resolved the issue
[17:58] <darthanubis> I'm hoping it will this time as well
[17:58] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: because you are not getting a tty. do none of the ttys work? f1-f6?
[17:58] <darthanubis> none
[17:58] <gnomefreak> when you say fixed it. what kernel was it?
[17:59] <darthanubis> back when Hardy was alpha
[17:59] <gnomefreak> oh good ok
[17:59] <gnomefreak> i thought you meant with intrepid
[17:59] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: can you see if tty has processes open with ps aux
[18:00] <darthanubis> root      6797  0.0  0.0   3940   592 tty1     Ss+  02:45   0:00 /sbin/getty 384
[18:00] <darthanubis> all 6 of em
[18:00] <gnomefreak> ok darthanubis reboot them so it restarts them maybe you will get one
[18:01] <gnomefreak> some how i doubt it but try it
[18:01] <darthanubis> brb
[18:06]  * gnomefreak going to assume he didnt check for errors in one of the log files like kernel, syslog, dmesg or boot log files
[18:06] <gnomefreak> since they would give me errors for it i would think
[18:07] <gnomefreak> you would also thing a bzr error would send you to #bzr not #launchpad
[18:07] <gnomefreak> think\
[18:09] <darthanubis> no tty
[18:09] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: did you happen to look for errors in any of the log files
[18:09] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: syslog kernel dmesg or boot logs
[18:09] <darthanubis> and my iptables setting keep going back to some bogus policy that shuts me off from the web?
[18:09] <hyperair> try serial cable and tty into it from there =p
[18:10] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: try another way to set the iptables
[18:10] <gnomefreak> if doing it in term try using firestarter or vice versa
[18:11] <gnomefreak> assuming you are using root access of some kind
[18:12] <darthanubis> yeah I purged ufw and firestarter because I thought they were keeping old settings around
[18:12] <darthanubis> dunno why I have to keep setting them myself
[18:12] <darthanubis> I was ICS with my other box
[18:13] <darthanubis> I need a tty to try to compile my nvidia kernel
[18:13] <darthanubis> module
[18:13] <hyperair> what are your kernel options
[18:14] <darthanubis> nothing exotic or non-standard
[18:14] <hyperair> vga?
[18:14] <darthanubis> yes
[18:14] <hyperair> does it have a vga option?
[18:14] <hyperair> remove it
[18:14] <darthanubis> let me look
[18:15] <darthanubis> #/vmlinuz-2.6.26-3-server root=/dev/mapper/ubuntu-root ro splash vga=788
[18:16] <darthanubis> rm vga=788?
[18:17] <hyperair> yes
[18:17] <hyperair> just ro splash
[18:17] <hyperair> why's it commented?
[18:17] <hyperair> #?
[18:17] <darthanubis> to allow it to be sent via irc?;)
[18:18] <hyperair> lol
[18:18] <hyperair> i'd just space it
[18:18] <hyperair>  /lalala
[18:18] <hyperair> for example
[18:18] <hyperair> =p
[18:20]  * darthanubis rebooting
[18:21]  * G_009 secures coffee pot..  no more for you hyperair
[18:28] <jonpackard> anybody running kernel <IP_ADDRESS> in virtualbox successfully?
[18:30] <darthanubis> well I got tty back!
[18:31] <darthanubis> will have to get this iptables garbage straightened out
[18:31] <darthanubis> what kind of policy DROPs everything?
[18:31] <gnomefreak> one that is not saving them
[18:32] <gnomefreak> i dont think ther eis any one that would cause that
[18:33] <darthanubis> going to see if I can get my nvidia driver working
[18:33] <darthanubis> I'm wireless so I have to start a gui seesion just so Networkmanager will get me online, then I can drop back to tty
[18:33] <darthanubis> thats annoying as well
[18:34] <hyperair> >=(
[18:34] <gnomefreak> networkmanager isnt gui just the applet is
[18:34]  * hyperair steals coffee pot from G_009
[18:34] <hyperair> wtf how did you know i'm a coffee addict!
[18:35] <gnomefreak> network-manager is cli thats why you get the messages when shutting down (or atleast used to) now you get them from rebooting shutting down from cli
[18:35] <G_009> it's not mine
[18:36] <hyperair> but you secured it
[18:36] <hyperair> now i've secured it
[18:36] <hyperair> >=D
[18:36] <G_009> that i did
[18:37]  * hyperair <3 coffee
[18:37]  * hyperair drinks coffee and goes hyper for the next 10 hours or so
[18:37] <darthanubis> gnomefreak: I have not found a network manager that is CLI
[18:37] <darthanubis> and my nvidia install failed
[18:38] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: network-manager the app is cli not gui
[18:38] <G_009> i made this coffee thing mix and now am insomniac
[18:38] <darthanubis> checking to see if I have the kernel headers
[18:38] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: just the applet is gui
[18:38] <darthanubis> I read that
[18:38] <hyperair> woo hoo insomniaism (if there's such a word) for the win
[18:38] <darthanubis> and network-manager I guessI don't have installed because whatever I have is looking to start gui
[18:39] <gnomefreak> you dont need the applet to run network-manager
[18:39] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: the applet is most likely
[18:39] <tetrismaster512> How possible is it for 8.10 to make a different way of installing software?
[18:39]  * gnomefreak thinks you are seeing something that is system wide wrong if this many things dont work
[18:39] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: anything is possible
[18:40] <darthanubis> I have network-config, and network-admin, but no "network-manager"
[18:40] <G_009> but my brain is looping thru a shutdown subprocess i cant kill-9
[18:40]  * G_009 zombies
[18:40] <tetrismaster512> I think that 8.10 needs to kill off softwre repos and make someting like PCBSD's .pbi installers
[18:40] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Development:~$ policy network-manager
[18:40] <gnomefreak> network-manager: Installed: 0.6.6-0ubuntu7
[18:41] <darthanubis> no "network-manager" command found.
[18:41] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: put it in a blueprint but it wont happen the repos are there for a reason and will stay there for a lont time
[18:41] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: ah they changed it
[18:41] <tetrismaster512> It is hellish to install software on a no internet linux computer
[18:41] <gnomefreak> they must have forked a cli based one
[18:42] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: its not hard but alot more work, hint its hard to install anything without a network since you cant download anything
[18:43] <tetrismaster512> If you have another computer with interent it isn't
[18:43] <tetrismaster512> And I hate downloading .debs only to learn I missed one out of the dozens I had to get
[18:43] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: than what is your problem? complaining isnt a problem and needs to be moved to an -offtopic channel
[18:44] <jonpackard> the fun part is when the net-enabled PC has dependencies installed that are needed by the program you want that are not installed on the no-net PC
[18:44] <gnomefreak> if you read the pages on packages.ubuntu.com it tells you what deps you need to install first
[18:44] <tetrismaster512> anyway, how unstable is Intrepid Alpha?
[18:44] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: very
[18:45] <tetrismaster512> ah, how often does it crash?
[18:45] <gnomefreak> does what crash? you do know linux doesnt crash right?
[18:45] <G_009> how about a gnometris 3D for ibex.. that'd be rad
[18:45] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: a package crashes
[18:45] <gnomefreak> a great many crash
[18:45] <gnomefreak> but intrepid itself does not crash
[18:45] <gnomefreak> that would be a kernel panic
[18:46] <tetrismaster512> oh, so it's just unstable sogtware?
[18:47] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: yes but if you cant fix it and installing apps on a no net pc bothers you than my advice would be not to try it. but all depends what you are looking for. there isnt anything really new in it but alot of apps are broken
[18:47] <G_009> kernel 2.6.26 got ninjas hidden in subroutines
[18:47] <tetrismaster512> Hmm
[18:47] <gnomefreak> unstable has different meaning for everyone
[18:47] <gnomefreak> its not like debian unstable
[18:47] <tetrismaster512> I'll stick to mac os x
[18:48] <gnomefreak> hell debian testing is more stable than this
[18:48] <tetrismaster512> and for me unstable means not usable for everyday tasks
[18:48] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: thats what it is
[18:48] <gnomefreak> tetrismaster512: /topic says that already
[18:49] <tetrismaster512> okay, I might wait till beta
[18:49] <tetrismaster512> cause I use Fiesty fawn still
[18:50] <gnomefreak> hardy is stabel so is gutsy both are newer than feisty
[18:50] <gnomefreak> stable
[18:50] <tetrismaster512> I know, but my iMac rejects Hardy and I didn't want to waste mor CDs
[18:51] <darthanubis> anyone able to get the nvidia script installer to work?
[18:57] <gnomefreak> darthanubis: installing nvidia and redoing my xorg.conf got mine working fine
[18:57] <gnomefreak> the most of it was done fixing xorg
[18:57] <gnomefreak> xorg.conf
[19:08] <darthanubis> the nvidia package in the repos works?
[19:33] <cbr> (EE) AIGLX error: dlopen of /usr/lib/dri/i965_dri.so failed (/usr/lib/dri/i965_dri.so: undefined symbol: _glapi_tls_Context)
[19:33] <cbr> (EE) AIGLX: reverting to software rendering
[19:33] <cbr> after mesa upgrade
[19:35] <cbr> what to do?
[19:39] <jonpackard> reported bug 246067
[19:59] <cbr> after installing a new version of kde4 all settings went away...
[20:00] <cbr> please advise
[20:14] <pen> I hope intrepid would be better
[20:14] <pheeror> i will
[20:14] <pheeror> just because hardy sux :-D
[20:17] <molgrum> could anyone tip me to get a 8800GTS working on intrepid x86_64?
[20:18] <molgrum> the GLX i mean
[20:35] <jonpackard> cbr: have you tried deleting you .kde folders in your home directory? It will create new ones from /etc/skel - it should put everything back to defaults. You could alternativey create a temporary user and see if the problem is specific to your user or not.
[20:48] <jonpackard> speaking of KDE4.. has anybody tried installing it from synaptic? I get this error...
[20:48] <jonpackard> kde4-core:
[20:48] <jonpackard>  Depends: kdebase-kde4 (>=4:4.0.0) but it is not installable
[20:49] <jonpackard> it's like the package is just missing
[21:12] <jacob> anyone notice the lack of 3d in mesa, or might that be an -intel bug?
[21:15] <jacob> jonpackard: seems the latest kde4 updates are just not packaged yet
[21:29] <jonpackard> jacob: Thanks! I was wondering if I was doing something wrong. =)
[21:31] <jonpackard> It doesn't seem that the kde3 packages are there either.
[21:33] <jonpackard> looking at the repo.. it seems that KDE4 will be the standard for the next Kubuntu. I can't seem to find any mention of KDE3.
[23:06] <molgrum> gnash 0.8.3 planned for intrepid?
[23:14] <RAOF> molgrum: Planned - I don't think so.  I'll push to get it in, though, and it shouldn't be too hard to do so.
[23:15] <molgrum> afaik, it's way better than 0.8.2 regarding youtube and general flash applets
[23:31] <the_fafa> will the new or future installer be able to recognise a raid and to setup it?
[23:37] <jonpackard> the_fafa: RAID is already supported in the alternate install and server CDs. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation


[00:53] <cdr700> Does anyone know how to change panel font colours in karmic?
[07:54] <HollowPoint> anyone here?
[10:42] <BronzeAu> Hi All. I'm Bronze from Downunder. Is this Microsoft Anon. I'm trying to get off the MS wagon. LOL
[10:55] <HollowPoint> lmao something like that BronzeAu I'm just over the ditch from you
[14:52] <vigo> How do I know if this is Karmic Beta?
[14:53] <milaz> /etc/issue ?
[14:53] <vigo> lsb_release =a shows development.
[14:54] <milaz> Also, by desktop background. It become all wellow with a diagonal line
[14:54] <milaz> :)
[14:54] <vigo> Okee dokee,,let me look...
[14:54] <vigo> Looks fine.
[14:55] <vigo> Thank you kindly.
[14:56] <milaz> You are welcome!
[15:04] <vigo> Now I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
[15:07] <milaz> Sincerely, I found 17 bugs there. And network-manager is completely broken for me. No DSL, no LAN :(
[15:08] <vigo> NM or Wicd?
[15:08] <milaz> NetworkManager
[15:09] <milaz> On lan, I had to set it up with ifconfig, route and manually editing /etc/resolv.conf
[15:10] <vigo> I was thinking of testing that Wicd today , I still have a load of reading to do.
[15:10] <milaz> What is Wicd?
[15:11] <vigo> Obviously not working.
[15:11] <milaz> Oh, the screenshots look cool :)
[15:12] <vigo> http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2009/09/14/replace-network-manager-with-wicd-ubuntu-9-04/
[15:17] <milaz> It's a pity there is no DSL support in wicd yet
[15:18] <vigo> ifup output?
[15:19] <vigo> wait, that might be the wrong Man Page.
[15:23] <vigo> Here is the Ubuntu Karmic on  Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/wicd/1.6.1-3
[15:25] <vigo> Let me test it on a few here.
[15:27] <milaz> Thanks, I'll look for it too
[18:56] <ubuntutest> hi there
[18:57] <ubuntutest> i am testing the karmic beta, trying to get google talk to work
[18:57] <ubuntutest> i cant get an video chat running, any one here has more succes?
[18:58] <ubuntutest> i have an webcam that works with , for example cheese or camorama , mplayer etc
[18:58] <ubuntutest> but it fails to run with google talk
[18:58] <ubuntutest> can see the wbcam icon of the other uses
[18:58] <ubuntutest> user
[19:00] <ubuntutest> hmm
[19:00] <ubuntutest> to bad it does not work, had great hopes for video conferencing
[19:01] <ubuntutest> adobe breaks flash video chat, most cam programs do not work, and google talk will not run
[19:02] <ubuntutest> it does not look pretty
[19:02] <ubuntutest> beta, ah yes beta
[19:03] <ubuntutest> webcam light flash to indicate its trying to go on
[19:03] <ubuntutest> then does not turn on
[19:03] <ubuntutest> and disconnects
[19:06] <ubuntutest> audio
[19:09] <ubuntutest> hmm
[19:09] <ubuntutest> same thing
[19:11] <ubuntutest> so to be clear , google talk is not working yet
[19:12] <unimatrix9> ..
[19:12] <unimatrix9> lets see
[19:47] <hosoka> hello all
[19:47] <hosoka> is this the room where I can ask my question of Beta 9.10 ?
[19:49] <hosoka> Using laptop Compaq Presario CQ50 and there was at first 9.04 working great en hereafter upgraded to 9.10 which after reboot and the Grub keeps flashing and stops till the login. This keeps ongoing this flashing. Anyone reported this before ?
[19:50] <virtuald> hosoka: #ubuntu+1
[19:51] <hosoka> virtuald: thanks
[20:32] <MvG> I've got a serious issue with a MacBook Pro and Karmic Beta: nvidia drivers won't compile, text console flashes, drops keystrokes, generates kernel errors, and thus becomes on the whole unusable.
[20:33] <MvG> I was about to file a bug against linux-meta about this. Would you agree?
[20:39] <MvG> False alarm: had been booting the wrong kernel due to hand-written grub config and outdated symlinks.
[20:49] <MvG> "apt-get update" complains about two instances of "Hash Sum mismatch"es. Server problem, configuration error, or Karmic bug?


[05:19] <TJ-> There seems to be a problem in ecryptfs causing a kernel BUG, kernel 4.13. bug 1728771


[20:16] <TheNightPhoenix> echo
[20:16] <TheNightPhoenix> any one knows how to test if my parallel port is owrking
[20:16] <TheNightPhoenix> by LEDs
[20:17] <TheNightPhoenix> c , python , any thing is accepted :D
[21:37] <loo0oola>  hi im useing ubuntu 10.10 but the language change from Arabic to English


[02:53] <jsgotangco> mm let's wait a bit before we start
[02:57] <jsgotangco> are we set?
[02:57] <jjesse> i am :0
[02:58] <jsgotangco> great let's aim for quality then
[02:58] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:58] <kjcole> Here physically and virtually, but on my schedule, not mentally. ;-)
[02:58] <jjesse> is it too early to be here mentally kjcole
[02:58] <jjesse> ?
[02:58] <jsgotangco> kjcole: are you on campus?
[02:58] <kjcole> Yep.
[02:59] <dholbach> do you have the agenda somewhere?
[02:59] <jsgotangco> ok
[02:59] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda
[02:59] <jsgotangco> who's here?
[02:59] <jjesse> me
[02:59] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Perhaps I should say I'm on MY campus: Gallaudet University...
[03:00] <kjcole> kjcole = Kevin Cole
[03:00] <Treenaks> kjcole: -color please
[03:01] <jsgotangco> err anyone else?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamMeetingAgenda is our agenda
[03:02] <dholbach> mdke told me, that my attendance was required regarding the future packaging of the ubuntu docs?
[03:02] <jsgotangco> i believe so
[03:02] <jsgotangco> hmm what's wrong with bhuvan
[03:02] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:02] <jsgotangco> dholbach: are you in charge of the packaging now?
[03:03] <dholbach> yes
[03:03] <jsgotangco> or will you be mentoring someone?
[03:03] <jsgotangco> awesome...
[03:03] <dholbach> i had a brief look at the complete source of the svn, but was not able to figure it out yet
[03:03] <dholbach> i will investigate a bit more at the weekend
[03:03] <jsgotangco> okay bhuvan seems to be having problems on connecting
[03:03] <dholbach> regarding the one-source-package-story: i heard it somewhere and thought it was decided on already
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: you ok now?
[03:04] <bhuvan> yeah
[03:04] <bhuvan> yes
[03:04] <jsgotangco> ok let's tackle 1 and 3 first since bhuvan will be leaving soon
[03:04] <bhuvan> any feedbacks/suggestions about w.u.c/ServerGuide ?
[03:04] <jsgotangco> bhuvan current wrote the spec for the server guide
[03:04] <jsgotangco> its located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide
[03:04] <jsgotangco> i haven't read it yet but it looks pretty comprehensive based on the TOC
[03:04] <bhuvan> today i wish to discuss about the topics, finalize couple of terminologies we may use in our serverguide
[03:05] <bhuvan> ok
[03:05] <dholbach> bhuvan: with whom do you work on this?
[03:05] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: do you plan to diverge from MAIN repos?
[03:05] <jjesse> bhuvan: just scanned it and it looks good
[03:05] <bhuvan> jsgotango, no
[03:05] <jsgotangco> ok so its all MAIN stuff then
[03:05] <bhuvan> dholbach, it's based on rhel admin guide
[03:05] <bhuvan> jsgotango, yes
[03:06] <bhuvan> jjesse, ok
[03:06] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: who are you working with at the moment, do you have a draft already?
[03:06] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, no
[03:06] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: can we know your whole name if you don't mind?
[03:06] <bhuvan> i do've a template at http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/
[03:07] <dholbach> bhuvan: you might want to talk to fabbione, because he works on the server edition on the distro side
[03:07] <bhuvan> Bhuvaneswaran Arumugam
[03:07] <bhuvan> dholbach, sure
[03:07] <jsgotangco> shit my seat just fell
[03:07] <dholbach> bhuvan: and infinity, but i'm not quite sure
[03:07] <bhuvan> dholbach, ok
[03:08] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:08] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:08] <jsgotangco> bhuvan has been contributing a lot with patches and stuff
[03:08] <bhuvan> and one page template at, http://puggy.symonds.net/~bhuvan/ubuntu-doc/build/generic/serverguide/C/serverguide-all.html
[03:08] <jsgotangco> i'd like to request svn access for him...
[03:09] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: what else do you need to help you on the project?
[03:09] <jsgotangco> resources, etc.?
[03:09] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok .. but, before that let me discuss about the terminologies we may use in our server guide
[03:10] <jsgotangco> okay
[03:10] <jsgotangco> shoot
[03:10] <kjcole> A question from someone new to the whole process: I keep seeing svn.  bzr/launchpad not ready enough for prime time? (Or am I so new to this that the question doesn't make sense?)
[03:10] <bhuvan> first, the editor. the choices are vi/vim/emacs. i prefer vim
[03:11] <ogra> i dont think we ship a plain vi
[03:11] <jsgotangco> kjcole: we've been using svn from the very start, a bzr transition will take time and planning and we'll need the lp team's help
[03:11] <Riddell> kjcole: at the time svn was set up baz had a steep learning curve.  bzr should be really good now but I think this cycle will stick with svn
[03:11] <dholbach> bhuvan: what do you mean? like rteferring to an editor in examples and such?
[03:11] <jsgotangco> kjcole: but we're going there
[03:11] <jsgotangco> how about nano?
[03:11] <jsgotangco> its pretty easy enough even for newbies imo
[03:11] <ogra> at least that the default
[03:11] <kjcole> I was going to mention nano...
[03:12] <Riddell> bhuvan: quanta, kate and presumably gedit are also choices
[03:12] <jsgotangco> Riddell: for servers? heh
[03:12] <ogra> Riddell, depends if you want to write the guide for servers with GUI
[03:12] <bhuvan> dholbach, i meant the editor we use to configure
[03:12] <bhuvan> dholbach, ie.. to edit conf files
[03:12] <bhuvan> Riddel, server wont have X. so we cant rely on gedit
[03:12] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: i'd go for nano, its pretty easy for beginners
[03:12] <ogra> jsgotangco, for edubuntu (a server distro) it would be appropriate
[03:13] <dholbach> i would say "edit bla file" and maybe in the first paragraph mention howtos for the editors *shrug*
[03:13] <kjcole> (If nano's in the mix a "-bkw" would be a useful default/alias somewhere.)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> vi/vim is like a chapter on linux in a nutshell :)
[03:13] <jsgotangco> and probably make a back up of the default conf files first before editing..
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:14] <Riddell> bhuvan: I would assume nano then but have small chapters for vim and emacs as well
[03:14] <bhuvan> dholbach, i prefer to be specific with the editor to use
[03:14] <dholbach> yeah, that was merely my own opinion ;)
[03:14] <bhuvan> dholbach, ok
[03:14] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: maybe mention that in the beginning that you're going to use nano but you're free to use any editor...
[03:14] <jsgotangco> at least you'll have a scope/limitation on the editor part
[03:14] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:15] <bhuvan> ok
[03:15] <jsgotangco> k anything else bhuvan?
[03:15] <bhuvan> next, package manager
[03:15] <bhuvan> choices are apt-get/aptitude. i prefer apt-get
[03:16] <jjesse> it would make sense on the server to use apt-get, no gui is instaleld by default
[03:16] <ogra> me too, but aptitude is far more beginner friendly
[03:16] <kjcole> (Sorry: -Bkw (-B=backup, -k=kill from cursor to line end instead of entire line, and -w=no unsolicited wordwrapping.)
[03:16] <bhuvan> jjesse, i agree
[03:16] <jsgotangco> aptitude at least has a gui of sorts
[03:17] <jjesse> why is aptitude considered more newbie friendly?  when i started using linux it was debian and i learned apt-get
[03:17] <bhuvan> jjesse, me too..
[03:17] <Riddell> I could never get the hang of aptitude
[03:17] <jjesse> me either
[03:17] <ogra> jjesse, imagine a win 2000 adim in such a environment
[03:17] <ogra> *admin
[03:17] <Riddell> bhuvan: will there be a general introduction to the command line chapter?
[03:17] <bhuvan> imo, if he is used to command line, then apt-get would be a cake-walk
[03:17] <jjesse> ogra i am a windows admin
[03:17] <ogra> he'd kiss your feet for at least some gui love
[03:17] <jjesse> that's what i do for a living
[03:17] <Riddell> ogra: he's want to use adept/synaptic then
[03:17] <bhuvan> Riddel: general introduction ?
[03:18] <Riddell> jjesse's dirty secret :)
[03:18] <ogra> jjesse, but *you* know debian based systems ...
[03:18] <jsgotangco> your toc contains aptitude or maybe its still wip?
[03:18] <jjesse> but i started using linux after i was a windows admin
[03:18] <Riddell> bhuvan: yeah, introducing GUI users to the command line
[03:19] <bhuvan> in any case, we may give an introduction about all possible package manager
[03:19] <ogra> jjesse, sure, i mean the guy who heard about linux and wants to try out the one a friend recommended it to him... to probably adopt it for his setup
[03:19] <bhuvan> Riddell, ok
[03:19] <jsgotangco> well apt is definitely more popular than aptitude...
[03:19] <ogra> sure
[03:19] <kjcole> Will the average admin use much more than update, upgrade, dist-upgrade and install?  (Once in a while remove or clean.)  Doesn't seem too complex...
[03:19] <bhuvan> so, shall we decide on apt-get ?
[03:20] <jjesse> +1 from me
[03:20] <jsgotangco> i'd go for apt
[03:20] <ogra> as i said intially, i prefer it personally... but for newcomers i'd suggest aptitude ..
[03:20] <bhuvan> cool
[03:21] <jsgotangco> ok so we're cool on apt?
[03:21] <Riddell> + 1 for apt, -1 for aptitude including for beginners
[03:21] <jjesse> heck if its in the guide then the "newbies" will learn apt :)
[03:21] <bhuvan> ok
[03:21] <jsgotangco> nice
[03:21] <bhuvan> next regarding contribution ?
[03:21] <jsgotangco> sure
[03:21] <jsgotangco> contribution on what?
[03:21] <bhuvan> i may cover most part of sys conf/network related applications
[03:21] <bhuvan> any takes for windows networking/misc stuffs ?
[03:22] <bhuvan> s/takes/($1)ers
[03:22] <jsgotangco> samba for example?
[03:22] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, exactly
[03:22] <jsgotangco> hmmm if you can finalize your TOC i can make a draft of samba stuff...
[03:23] <jjesse>  as a windows admin i can look into it
[03:23] <bhuvan> cool
[03:23] <jsgotangco> and probably some on bind and dncp
[03:23] <bhuvan> ok
[03:23] <bhuvan> hope you meant dhcp ?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:23] <Riddell> bhuvan: the synaptic chapter should really be an adept chapter when included in kubuntu, I wonder if it's possible to use profiles for that
[03:24] <bhuvan> Riddell: i guess, we're going to have one generic server guide
[03:24] <jjesse> Riddell: if i recall we tried to use profiles at one time and it messed things up?
[03:24] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: are you planning to add gui stuff? i assume this is all cli
[03:24] <jjesse> bhuvan: the doc would be included on the kubuntu install if the person typed server at the install
[03:24] <ogra> Riddell, you'll stay with adept ?
[03:25] <Kamion> apt-get/aptitude> note that aptitude provides a perfectly good command-line replacement for apt-get; consider that as well as its UI
[03:25] <Riddell> bhuvan: yes, kubuntu docs should include the server guide, synaptic is the only chapter I can see that ought to be changed somehow, not a huge issue though
[03:25] <jjesse> for kubntu yeah we will
[03:25] <Riddell> ogra: of course, why not?
[03:25] <jsgotangco> ogra: will the default edubuntu install still have gnome running on the server?
[03:25] <bhuvan> Riddell, good point. we can include it
[03:25] <ogra> jsgotangco, yes
[03:25] <bhuvan> any target date to freeze the toc ?
[03:26] <ogra> jsgotangco, it needs a installed desktop...  (no need for a running one though... but gdm doesnt cost much)
[03:26] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: there's no LTSP on the TOC
[03:26] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:26] <ogra> Riddell, its UI reminds on bugzilla :)
[03:27] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:27] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, i'll add
[03:27] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: great
[03:27] <jsgotangco> what else
[03:27] <bhuvan> i repeat, any target date to freeze the toc ?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: anything to say on the server doc?
[03:27] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: its your call
[03:27] <kjcole> This is where I should probably dig myself a bigger hole: Jeff Elkner and I are theoretically working on an Edubuntu Cookbook based on the tuxLab Howto...  The LTSP stuff will be in there, no doubt.
[03:28] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerGuide looks good at the moment
[03:28] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:28] <ogra> kjcole, thats fine ...
[03:28] <bhuvan> fine
[03:28] <jsgotangco> kjcole: sure
[03:28] <jbailey> kjcole: Cookbook?  "How to fry your thin client: Just add water"
[03:28] <bhuvan> guess, we can move on to (3)
[03:28] <dholbach> haha :)
[03:28] <jjesse> 1
[03:28] <ogra> kjcole, the server guide they are talking about is rather "how do i install all ltsp stuff manually on a non-edubuntu"
[03:28] <jsgotangco> ok since bhuvan will be leaving let's jump to 3
[03:28] <jjesse> doh wrong window
[03:29] <ogra> kjcole, while edubuntu comes preconfigured ;)
[03:29] <jsgotangco> Quicktour - XML or HTML
[03:29] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:29] <bhuvan> yeah, we're maintaining the html version in our svn
[03:29] <mgalvin> jsgotangco: I have only been partly following the meeting, is the server guide going to be about ubuntu-server or ubuntu as a server
[03:29] <bhuvan> imo, it's odd. let's convert it into xml ?
[03:30] <jsgotangco> mgalvin: ubuntu-server
[03:30] <jjesse> i thought it was about ubuntu-server
[03:30] <bhuvan> + howto use ubuntu as a complete server
[03:30] <mgalvin> ok, just clarifying for myself, thnx
[03:30] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: mgalvin has been working on "instant server" along with fabbione and others you might want to talk with them too
[03:30] <Riddell> ubuntu-server doesn't have synaptic then
[03:31] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yeah, i'm aware of it
[03:31] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, sure i'll
[03:31] <jsgotangco> ok can we jump on 3 then?
[03:31] <bhuvan> i already had :)
[03:31] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:31] <jsgotangco> what's wrong with the html
[03:31] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:31] <Riddell> what's the issues for XML or docbook?  HTML can't be translated easily presumably but docbook needs clever stylesheets and might restrict layout?
[03:32] <bhuvan> it looks odd, let's convert it into xml and maintain the uniformity accross the repo
[03:32] <jsgotangco> i believe its in xhtml so its can be translated
[03:32] <mgalvin> i don't have any suggestions atm, i will read the meeting log when i have time and post any comments to the list (i am busy back and forth a bit atm)
[03:32] <bhuvan> xml gives flexibility to convert between html/pdf ..
[03:32] <bhuvan> if need be..
[03:32] <jsgotangco> but if its going to be converted to xml, it can be flexible
[03:33] <bhuvan> mgalvin, thankx
[03:33] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yes
[03:33] <jsgotangco> it was converted before, but its a very simple document really
[03:33] <jsgotangco> but anyways,
[03:33] <jbailey> The html issue is that there's no trivial way to associate other languages with it.  In docbook, you can have multiple omf files that give links to the right languages.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> jbailey: right...
[03:33] <jbailey> So it's not the document itself so much as the things *using* the documents.
[03:33] <jsgotangco> scrollkeeper lovely :)
[03:33] <jbailey> Right.
[03:34] <jsgotangco> anyayws, docbook always was the choice we're smart enough to transform any xml document :)
[03:34] <bhuvan> so, we can maintain xml ?
[03:34] <jbailey> That said, if what you're producing is documentation, there shouldn't be so much need for crazy styling - docbook is good enouhg to produce books. =)
[03:34] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:34] <jbailey> It's mostly when you're doing things like the firefox about page that converting from docbook will always suck.
[03:34] <bhuvan> cool
[03:34] <jjesse> i think the only question is how the quicktour will look then right?
[03:35] <jsgotangco> jjesse: sure but that would be voodoo css then heh
[03:35] <jsgotangco> we have 5 more months
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ok so we settled on xml then
[03:35] <jsgotangco> its only 1 document
[03:35] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:35] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, thankx
[03:36] <bhuvan> * time to start to "HARRY POTTER and the gobert of fire"
[03:36] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: can you update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects to reflect your changes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:36] <jsgotangco> thanks bhuvan
[03:36] <jsgotangco> we'll request svn access for you
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, ok
[03:36] <jsgotangco> bhuvan: have your gpg key ready
[03:36] <bhuvan> jsgotangco, yes
[03:36] <bhuvan> in lp
[03:36] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:36] <jsgotangco> ok we go back to 2
[03:37] <jsgotangco>  Packaging - single source package to be used for {edu}{k}ubuntu? (mdke and dholbach)
[03:37] <bhuvan> bye bye
[03:37] <jsgotangco> dholbach?
[03:37] <dholbach> yeah... it was my misunderstanding... i thought that "one source package for all the docs" was decided on already
[03:37] <jsgotangco> does this mean all docs will be in one package?
[03:37] <dholbach> if there are no shared chapters between docs, it might make sense to have them separately
[03:38] <ogra> edubuntu will have pretty specific docs
[03:38] <jsgotangco> yeah
[03:38] <jjesse> as will kubuntu
[03:38] <dholbach> no... one source package can build a huge lot of binary packages
[03:38] <jsgotangco> this doesn't make sense to me really
[03:38] <jjesse> we aren't profilling
[03:38] <ogra> so a additional edubuntu-docs package should be fine
[03:38] <jsgotangco> they only have shared libs on svn
[03:38] <jsgotangco> but not on the doc itself
[03:38] <dholbach> i'm talking about a SOURCE package :)
[03:38] <Riddell> there are shared docs too, like server guide
[03:38] <jbailey> You can also make an ubuntu-docs-common
[03:38] <jbailey> For shared bits
[03:38] <dholbach> yeah
[03:39] <jbailey> Just make sure you update the DapperStandardsBase bits if you do that, please.
[03:39] <Riddell> although, kubuntu might want different stylesheets and output compated to ubuntu
[03:39] <jbailey> For branding, we specifically said that ubuntu-docs could be overridden.
[03:39] <jsgotangco> very different stylesheets
[03:39] <dholbach> yeah... let's just drop the idea
[03:39] <jsgotangco> jbailey: because its possible that oems would want to do their own docs right?
[03:39] <dholbach> it was my misunderstanding, sorry
[03:39] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Right.
[03:39] <ogra> the -coomon package idea sounds very cool
[03:40] <ogra> *-common
[03:40] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:40] <dholbach> ogra, Riddell: so the three of us will take care of the packages?
[03:40] <jsgotangco> we can dump all the libs and license stuff on -common i guess
[03:40] <ogra> dholbach, i'll care for edubuntu-docs
[03:40] <dholbach> cool
[03:40] <Riddell> dholbach: ok, but if you set up e.g. scripts to do weekly uploads then mind and include us
[03:40] <jbailey> How I would do it, I think, for a -common would be to have that in a separate repo, decide on those styles and lock 'em down early if you can.  Any change to those will start to affect a lot of packages.
[03:41] <dholbach> Riddell: same goes for you :)
[03:41] <jsgotangco> jbailey: the -common would probably start on the svn itself...
[03:41] <jjesse> i would be fore setting up styles and everything, that way i wouldn't have to always bug riddell over and over again :)
[03:42] <jsgotangco> is *-common good for us?
[03:42] <jsgotangco> or needs further discussion
[03:43] <jbailey> I think further.
[03:43] <jjesse> well are we going to have diff
[03:43] <jjesse> sorry
[03:43] <jjesse> wrong window
[03:43] <jbailey> I've seen people say 'yay' and people say 'kubuntu and ubuntu might want different styles'
[03:44] <ogra> edubuntu as well :)
[03:44] <jsgotangco> ok
[03:44] <Riddell> I don't think -common would work with different styles
[03:44] <jsgotangco> its a good base of discussion though
[03:45] <jsgotangco> ok so we'll move this on the list then
[03:45] <ogra> Riddell, do you use lsb-release ?
[03:45] <jsgotangco>  Removal of "K" from the front of Kubuntu documents
[03:45] <jsgotangco> ?
[03:46] <Riddell> ogra: for what?
[03:46] <jsgotangco> like my original kquickguide.xml?
[03:46] <ogra> Riddell, to set it to Kubuntu insterad of Ubuntu
[03:46] <kjcole> Well, the wiki allows me to change styles, and lots of HTML comes with alternate styles...  Is it a silly idea to have multiple styles and some scripts for each variant (k-, edu-) set a default style while offering up the alternatives?
[03:46] <ogra> Riddell, see lsb_release -a
[03:47] <jsgotangco> jjesse: ?
[03:47] <Riddell> ogra: no, the kubuntu /etc/lsb-release file is the same as for ubuntu
[03:47] <ogra> Riddell, we could add a debconf setting to select the right style based on lsb-release, if we both would start setting the right value there
[03:47] <jjesse> sorry work called missed
[03:47] <jsgotangco> jjesse: removal of K?
[03:47] <Riddell> yes please :)
[03:48] <jsgotangco> does it bork the doc?
[03:48] <Riddell> the documents are already in the kubuntu directory as a namespace
[03:49] <Riddell> also the Makefile targets are hard to understand acronyms like kak, which should be changed to e.g.  make about-kubuntu
[03:49] <Riddell> I think that affects the ubuntu docs too, it's just a wee thing to make it less user friendly
[03:50] <jsgotangco> well that's true and kak sounds like turd
[03:50] <Riddell> yep :)
[03:51] <Riddell> so that's agreed, just a question of if me or jjesse does it and does the ubuntu Makefile follow
[03:51] <jsgotangco> anyways, i was just having fun back then when i did the kname on the doc
[03:51] <Riddell> ah hah, it's all jsgotangco's fault :)
[03:51] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:51] <jjesse> sorry back from work
[03:52] <jsgotangco> the kname doesn't really affect much of the doc itself unless there were some magic involved that i didn't see at all :)
[03:52] <jjesse> like i said over email only thing to do would be to change the make file and rename the docs on svn right?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> yes basically
[03:52] <Riddell> jjesse: yes.  so me or you to do it?
[03:52] <jsgotangco> they don't link back to the other docs
[03:53] <jjesse> i can do it today
[03:53] <Riddell> groovy
[03:53] <Kamion> ogra: NOOOOO
[03:53] <jjesse> it looks like a slow day at work :)
[03:53] <Kamion> ogra: lsb-release is not going to be polluted by debconf madness
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ok that's settled then
[03:53] <jsgotangco>  Moving locale C --> en?
[03:53] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[03:53] <jsgotangco> this is a gnome thing
[03:53] <jsgotangco> dholbach: ping?
[03:54] <dholbach> pong
[03:54] <jsgotangco> is locale C really required instead of en?
[03:54] <Kamion> ogra: nor can it possibly return different values for Ubuntu and Kubuntu, since both are built out of the same archive
[03:54] <dholbach> jsgotangco: what do you want to change?
[03:54] <ogra> Kamion, i dont want to pollute it, i wanted to read from it
[03:54] <jbailey> The C locale is the fall back one.
[03:54] <jbailey> en isn't usually the fallback.
[03:54] <Riddell> Kamion: and presumably same for edubuntu
[03:55] <jsgotangco> jbailey: this messes up other installs say FR?
[03:55] <jsgotangco> if the fallback isn't C?
[03:55] <jbailey> Well, you'd have to teach scrollkeeper that the fallback was en instead.
[03:55] <Kamion> Riddell: yes, hence ogra should know this
[03:55] <jsgotangco> jbailey: nice
[03:56] <jsgotangco> that'll probably bork the other upstream stuff then
[03:56] <dholbach> why would you want to change it in the first place?
[03:57] <jsgotangco> well one member raised it before
[03:57] <dholbach> mh
[03:57] <jsgotangco> i think it messes up transformation of sorts
[03:57] <jsgotangco> don't really remember the technical details
[03:57] <jsgotangco> we can move this to list
[03:57] <dholbach> i see
[03:57] <jbailey> I'd be inclined to put it with a "provide technical reasons, come again soon"
[03:58] <jsgotangco> jeff schering isn't here...
[03:58] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i'll make a comment on that then
[03:58] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:58] <jsgotangco> not much members came anyways
[03:58] <jsgotangco> i'd like to discuss docteam member stuff
[03:58] <jsgotangco> and get opinion from those here
[03:58] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:58] <dholbach> if there's nothing you want with me right now, i'd leave to grab something to eat and take my dog out
[03:59] <jbailey> dholbach: Woking the dog?
[03:59] <jsgotangco> dholbach: cool i think we're done
[03:59] <jsgotangco> dholbach: don't work your dog man
[03:59] <dholbach> jbailey: errrr no :)
[03:59] <jsgotangco> poor murphy
[03:59] <ogra> jbailey, hey, we are not in chinatown anymore
[03:59] <dholbach> ...
[03:59] <dholbach> this is the right time to leave :)
[03:59] <ogra> heh
[03:59] <dholbach> see you later guys and thanks for the meeting
[03:59] <jsgotangco> anyways
[03:59] <jsgotangco> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-doc has the current membership
[04:00] <jsgotangco> obviously its restricted membership
[04:00] <jsgotangco> but i'd like to ask if its reasonable that we make members with svn access to sign the coc
[04:00] <jsgotangco> mandatory :)
[04:00] <jsgotangco> besides we upload too in ubuntu servers
[04:01] <jbailey> I would be inclined to simply restrict svn commit access to members.
[04:01] <jbailey> Anyone who's contrib'd a bunch of things can qualify as a member.
[04:01] <jjesse> i think members should sign the CoC
[04:01] <jjesse> but don't give svn access to all members
[04:01] <jsgotangco> jbailey: of course...but i'm inclined that team members sign the coc too
[04:01] <jjesse> not all members commit correct?
[04:01] <jbailey> Riddell: Right, sorry.
[04:02] <jbailey> I meant, restrict SVN commit to Ubuntu members.
[04:02] <jsgotangco> jbailey: ahhhh
[04:02] <jbailey> And encourage folks who are active contributors to get their Ubuntu membership anyway, since it integrates them into the Ubuntu community in general.
[04:02] <kjcole> In my blundering around in launchpad, I've created teams that were probably better left uncreated, one of which was the Edubuntu Cookbook team.
[04:02] <jsgotangco> good point
[04:03] <jsgotangco> kjcole: sure go crazy in lp anyways...
[04:03] <jjesse> or like the team of all jonathans that one day i was a member of :)
[04:03] <kjcole> So, speaking of docs, there needs to be more Launchpad docs for people like me. ;-)
[04:03] <Riddell> jjesse: you arn't any more?  changed your name?
[04:03] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i probably got 1 or 2 people in the team list with commit access but not an ubuntu-member though...
[04:04] <jsgotangco> kjcole: well https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects has a sampling of current work
[04:04] <jsgotangco> (Edubuntu used to be there btw)
[04:04] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Right, but if they've contributed enough to get svn access, then they've certainly done enough to become an Ubuntu member
[04:05] <jsgotangco> sure if it interests them at all (one don't)
[04:05] <jbailey> Do you really think it would be a blocked?
[04:05] <jbailey> blocker, rather?
[04:06] <jsgotangco> not really, but i'd have them sign the coc since they do work in ubuntu servers for one
[04:06] <jsgotangco> being a -member is their own choice
[04:06] <Riddell> only blocking would be a time issue, 2 weeks to next CC meeting then however long to get an SVN account is a hassle
[04:06] <jsgotangco> but any current -member can easily get svn access sure
[04:07] <jjesse> boss was around, Riddell i'm no longer amember of that team
[04:07] <jjesse> i didn't change name or antying
[04:08] <jsgotangco> what team?
[04:08] <jjesse> the all jonathan's team
[04:08] <Riddell> jjesse: I don't seem to be either, wonder where it's gone
[04:08] <jsgotangco> lol ok
[04:08] <jjesse> didthe team get deleted?
[04:08] <jsgotangco> anyways
[04:08] <jsgotangco> this needs more discussion
[04:08] <jsgotangco> and more ubuntu-doc members
[04:08] <jsgotangco> its probably a good cc topic too, not just for ubuntu-doc but for other teams
[04:08] <Riddell> I agree with jbailey though, just make sure everyone is an ubuntu member
[04:09] <jjesse> can i just say that AS/400 query sucks
[04:09] <jbailey> jjesse: This isn't news. =)
[04:09] <jbailey> But sometimes I miss green text on a black background. =)
[04:09] <jjesse> not news for me either, but i hate working w/ it :(
[04:09] <jbailey> jsgotangco: Will you bring it up with the CC?
[04:09] <jjesse> they want to move here from green screen to in the web browser
[04:09] <jsgotangco> Riddell: that's really a good suggestion and makes sure the one who commits actually went through the acid test
[04:10] <jsgotangco> jbailey: i need to ask the other guys (burgundavia, mdke, rob, etc.)
[04:10] <jbailey> jsgotangco: And the you don't necessarily need to worry about CoC for people without SVN because it's always getting filtered through someone who has.
[04:10] <Riddell> jjesse: ah https://launchpad.net/people/jouuamaoe
[04:10] <jjesse> i would vote for svn access go to members
[04:10] <jjesse> my subscription has been deactivated
[04:10] <jsgotangco> ubuntu-members is already settled they're whitelisted then
[04:11] <jsgotangco> the question now is svn access be restriected to ubuntu-members, meaning potential contributors need to become an ubuntu-member
[04:12] <jjesse> based on the amount of patches they submitted to the mailing list they would be good canidates for inclusion to ubuntu-members, shows theyare dedicated
[04:12] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:12] <jsgotangco> kjcole: what's the plan on the cookbook?
[04:13] <kjcole> Sorry, stepped away for a minute.
[04:13] <kjcole> jsgotangco: Plan? We don't need no stinking plan!
[04:13] <jsgotangco> that's the spirit!
[04:14] <jsgotangco> bshumate: you there mate? you got any questions while we're still here?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> we can wrap up now
[04:14] <jsgotangco> hmm
[04:14] <jsgotangco> alright
[04:14] <Riddell> has any work started on the ubuntu desktop doc?
[04:14] <kjcole> Honestly, I don't know.  As I mentioned at the Edubuntu meeting two days ago, I wasn't at the table when I got committed to doing it.  (I was off in another room with the LTSP people.)
[04:14] <bshumate> i am here...no questions.  very professional bunch ya got here!
[04:15] <bshumate> jsgotangco: can i e-mail you later with any other questions though?
[04:15] <jsgotangco> Riddell: last time i looked at it, a lot of screenshots got moved
[04:16] <jsgotangco> bshumate: sure dude
[04:16] <kjcole> So, I'm learning about things like XML, docbook, LTSP, revision management, and oh... Edubuntu.  None of which I've used.  Jeff who's the other member of the team has at least used LTSP.
[04:17] <jsgotangco> kjcole: i started with zero too last year when i joined the project really
[04:17] <jsgotangco> anyways we had a good meeting
[04:17] <jsgotangco> hopefully the next will have more people (mdke, burg, etc.)
[04:17] <jjesse> Riddell: i've started a little on the kubuntu desktop guide but nothing ready to be commited
[04:18] <kjcole> Well, I'm willing, and hopefully able, just not quite ready.


[03:00] <zul> BenC: kernel-package barfs with 2.6.18-rc4
[01:56] <zul> hey
[11:00] <kriebly> is a hassle to rehearse for it


[01:38] <Bashing-om> OK. back, duty done . She was a loyal devoted loving dog .. that is now at rest .
[01:41] <daftykins> oh i'm sad to hear that :( that only happened today?
[01:41] <daftykins> er sorry to hear that even
[01:43] <Bashing-om> Yeah .. terminal cancer . I had hoped the steroid pills would continue to allow her more time . But, no - the vet called her time right .
[01:44] <daftykins> ah, then a sweet escape from suffering perhaps
[01:47] <Bashing-om> Well .. I am thankful the sufferring was short . Till the last she was still snapping up her hot dog treats . Responded well to petting .. I think last night was her saying good bye when she came for her petting .
[01:49] <daftykins> aww
[01:49] <daftykins> they definitely know things they could never share, pets
[01:56] <Bashing-om> well. that trial of the fret and worry over her feeling so bad - and knowing she was going to die - We did all we could to make her happy; all the way up to the end -  is over now .  She deserved a decent burial .
[02:02] <daftykins> sounds good to me
[02:08] <daftykins-> totally forgot about this months' patch tuesday!
[02:09] <Bashing-om> Windows, outta sight out of mind .
[02:11] <daftykins-> kernel reboots too :)
[02:12] <daftykins-> two sides of the same coin
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:00] <lotuspsychje> how has the evening been Bashing-om ?
[05:09] <Bashing-om> quiet, not much going on lotuspsychje .
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> ok :p
[05:10] <Bashing-om> Maybe will pick up . help ya get your day started .
[05:18] <Bashing-om> Too slow to hold my attention. Going horizontal for the duration .. catch ya later .
[06:11] <ducasse> morning all
[12:32] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[16:05] <OerHeks> oh, it is weekend \o/
[16:07] <DJones> OerHeks: Being on long term sick I don't even know what day it is
[16:08] <OerHeks> Friday, 18:07 here
[16:08] <DJones> Apart from the nagging from my wife that its my 50th birthday tomorow,.....As if I care
[16:09] <OerHeks> hihi turning 49 monday
[16:09] <OerHeks> 7x7
[16:09] <DJones> Heh
[16:10] <DJones> I'd rather have my health back than be having seizures/blackouts & now pneumonia after a fall during a blackout breaking ribs
[16:10] <OerHeks> ouch
[16:11] <DJones> Thats on the upside :)
[16:11] <DJones> Ah well, keep going
[16:11] <daftykins> DJones: :( nasty
[16:12] <daftykins> fall breaking ribs? sounds all too familiar
[16:13] <DJones> Been in hopsital twice after falls while unconcious, broken ankle, broken ribs, things happen, could be better
[16:14] <DJones> But,get back on the horse, worst that can happen is I'll fall off
[16:14] <daftykins> it was quite the experience, for me
[16:14] <DJones> Was that you bike accident?
[16:14] <daftykins> yep
[16:14] <DJones> Thought so
[16:14] <daftykins> and yeah, only thing to do
[16:14] <daftykins> still no memory of it, come to think of it the 2 year anniversary of it is coming up on the 28th
[16:15] <DJones> Trouble is, I'm married to a nurse, so not allowed to do anything, can't ride my bike, can't drive (doctors orders), can't use machinery etc...
[16:16] <DJones> Can understand the not driving, may blackout or have a seizure while at the wheel & could kill somebody else, bike - I'm not sure about
[16:18] <daftykins> well even falling from stationary on a bike could surely cause you more harm
[16:23] <DJones> Appreciate that, just feel like I need to do some exercise
[16:24] <tgm4883> lol
[16:25] <DJones> Had a stress echo cardiogram the other week and couldn't complete it, that tells me I need to improve my fitness
[16:27] <daftykins> ah har
[16:27] <daftykins> more dog walking? :)
[16:28] <DJones> I wish, Can't manage it, short walks only for now
[16:28] <DJones> 1/2 mile leaves me exhausted
[16:29] <tgm4883> "The driver WORKS. I've got FGLRX on 16.04. Why won't you help me the driver works. Here look at my logs to prove it"   "Uh, that says it's using radeon, not FGLRX"
[16:29] <DJones> But speaking of which, time for a dog walk
[16:29] <DArqueBishop> "I'm not asking for support! I just need help!"
[16:30] <daftykins> lul
[16:30] <daftykins> DArqueBishop: that an #ubuntu special?
[16:30] <tgm4883> We've got a rule in another channel that I'm part of that I think applies here as well. "If you're asking for help in this channel, answer questions that are asked of you and follow the instructions. It's highly likely that the people helping you know more than you do"
[16:30] <daftykins> tgm4883: :D
[16:30] <DArqueBishop> daftykins: yeah, the same person tgm4883 was talking about.
[16:31] <daftykins> it's always amusing when one of those types swears blind a fact, then a log immediately disproves that
[16:31] <tgm4883> someone should make that a factoid "If you're asking for help, we know more than you do so answer questions that you are asked"
[16:32] <tgm4883> There isn't really a non-condescending way to say that, but it needs to be said sometimes
[16:33] <tgm4883> How about  a !ronswanson  "I know more than you"
[16:33] <daftykins> i feel like someone deleted the AB factoid, too
[16:33] <daftykins> or i just forgot the trigger
[16:33] <daftykins> !ab