[01:34] <vmorris> is there something in particular that i need to do to pass http proxy settings into LXD containers?
[07:31] <junaidali> hey guys, can a peer relation only share private-address?
[07:32] <junaidali> I'm trying to share some data across peers, but the relation data that i get is always the private address
[07:33] <kjackal> Good morning Juju world!
[07:34] <kjackal> junaidali: yes peer relations are just like the rest of the relations, you can share any kind of data
[07:34] <kjackal> junaidali: You need to create an interface for that, let me find an example
[07:35] <kjackal> junaidali: https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-spark-quorum
[07:35] <junaidali> Good morning kjackal, thanks.
[09:17] <vibol> Hello
[09:19] <vibol> when we run juju enable-ha --n 3 we will be avaible to run juju command on the second and third node like the first controller ?
[09:19] <vibol> i mean we will be able to run juju status on the 3 state server in ha mode ?
[10:48] <SimonKLB> how do you run the same charm with different configurations since units have the same?
[10:49] <SimonKLB> for example two mysql databases with different ports?
[10:53] <mgz> you name the services/applications differently
[10:54] <mgz> `juju deploy cs:mysql dba && juju deploy cs:mysql dbb`
[10:55] <SimonKLB> mgz: thanks
[10:56] <SimonKLB> mgz: can you get some kind of unique id from an application?
[10:57] <mgz> the service name is unique
[10:57] <SimonKLB> mgz: not if you remove it and then start a new one with the same name right?
[10:59] <mgz> well, how is that distunguishable from a newly deployed service? config isn't kept if you destroy a service
[11:00] <SimonKLB> mgz: right, ill create the id myself, probably best not to rely on something the user can specify if you want to ensure uniqueness anyway :)
[11:01] <vibol> in juju 2.0 do we need to bootstrap at lease 3 machine to enable ha with juju enable-ha -n 3 ?
[11:02] <mgz> you don't bootstrap three times. juju will take three machines if you want ha though.
[11:04] <vibol> i'm in manual environment did the ha work in manual environment ?
[11:05] <mgz> yes. you'll need to add-machine enough suitable things before calling enable-ha
[11:05] <vibol> i add 2 machine with juju add-machine ... and than juju enable-ha -n 3 --to 0,1 and i got machine 3 already a controller
[11:05] <vibol> i run juju status i see my new machine is add 0, 1
[11:05] <vibol> and 0, 1 is a new added machine
[11:05] <mgz> did you add-machine in the right model?
[11:05] <vibol> machine 0 already controller sory
[11:06] <vibol> why guidline from doc in manual provisioning juju add-machine ssh:xx.xx and machine showing correctly in juju status
[11:06] <vibol> i follow the doc in 2.0 version
[11:07] <mgz> and also, it's 'ensure-availability' in 2.0 so I hope that's the command you're using
[11:08] <vibol> this command is in 1.25 ? because in 2.0 i don't see this command instead of enable-ha
[11:08] <mgz> my bad, I got it backwards
[11:09] <vibol> in 2.0 it has a seperate between agent list controller list right ?
[11:09] <mgz> yeah, there are two models by default
[11:10] <mgz> one for the controllers, and one empty and ready to use for workloads
[11:10] <mgz> anyway, feel free to file a bug with your steps and what error message you get
[11:11] <vibol> i'm not good at a bug report.. but will try
[11:18] <SimonKLB> mgz: is it possible to have some kind of global configuration for every application deployment of a charm in the same config.yaml and then the specific options under the service namespace?
[11:19] <mgz> SimonKLB: I am somewhat confused about what you're trying to accomplish
[11:19] <SimonKLB> something like
[11:19] <SimonKLB> ssl-enabled: True
[11:19] <SimonKLB> service_1:
[11:19] <SimonKLB>   port: 8080
[11:19] <SimonKLB> service_2:
[11:19] <SimonKLB>   port: 9090
[11:19] <mgz> sure, but you split that
[11:19] <mgz> the config that generally applies goes in the charm
[11:20] <mgz> and the fact there is a port config option
[11:20] <mgz> the ports for specific services goes in the bundle
[11:20] <SimonKLB> hmm, this is two services of the same charm
[11:20] <mgz> sure
[11:20] <SimonKLB> im not using a bundle right now
[11:21] <mgz> you have a bundle that specifies all your services, and can include specific config for them
[11:21] <SimonKLB> so it's not possible to have global configurations without a bundle ?
[11:22] <mgz> you can do everything via command line as well
[11:22] <mgz> so, write a script that says deploy this service, set this config, and so on
[11:22] <mgz> skin the cat however you want
[11:23] <SimonKLB> yea thats what im looking to do right now, so in this example i deploy two services of the same charm, but i was thinking if it was possible to keep everything in the same config.yaml still
[11:23] <SimonKLB> but to not having to repeat stuff in the config.yaml file i was wondering if you could keep the general config options at the top?
[11:31] <vibol> when enable ha other machine is down and sad lost connection
[11:32] <vibol> but running juju ssh still working find
[11:32] <vibol> fine
[11:32] <mgz> vibol: down means the agent isn't talk back, so check /var/log/juju and such
[11:34] <vibol> juju mongo connection fail @@
[11:34] <vibol> it a strange problem
[11:34] <vibol> let see...
[11:35] <vibol> there 2 nic currently availble first primary one is private and has the static ip.. but why juju mongo try to connect the second nic instead because i set this nic to dhcp and get internet from my rounter
[11:36] <vibol> juju mongo shoud connect through the primary nic... but not sure
[12:23] <vibol> it seem like a bug ... because i can reproduce this problem anytime
[12:25] <mgz> vibol: please file one, I'm not sure how multiple nics and the manual provider are meant to play together
[12:25] <vibol> thank you.. i'm sorry to making u confuse
[12:25] <mgz> but there may be additional prerequisites on network setup before you can add-machine
[12:25] <vibol> juju seem to work not very well on manual provider
[12:26] <vibol> i can deploy a service as normal on my network setup for juju
[12:26] <vibol> the only problem os deploying ha only
[12:27] <mgz> yeah, it's likely that the state server requirements are stricter than for a normal service
[12:27] <mgz> as they need to do much more
[12:27] <vibol> i'm sorry before i file a bug
[12:27] <mgz> for instance, need to be on all networks that any other machine is on, and from your experience sounds like the local network setup also matters
[12:28] <vibol> i want to deploy all maas juju both in ha
[12:28] <vibol> and i want to deploy juju and deploy maas using juju
[12:29] <vibol> because the doc say it is possible to deploy maas using juju
[12:29] <mgz> er... you probably don't want to try that
[12:29] <vibol> -_- it really make me confusing
[12:29] <vibol> but why ? any problem ?
[12:29] <mgz> I'm aware of some very experimental maas charms
[12:30] <vibol> ohh
[12:30] <mgz> but the normal way is you just deploy maas, then can use juju for workloads on top
[12:30] <vibol> good
[12:30] <vibol> ...
[12:30] <mgz> juju drives maas quite happily
[12:30] <vibol> i though deploy maas in ha by hand is very hardwork
[12:30] <vibol> but it the same on juju with manual provisioning -_-
[12:31] <mgz> yeah, that is also true
[12:31] <mgz> well, it's easy with homogenous envs
[12:31] <vibol> i guess i should start maas in deploy juju on top of maas and see how it work first
[12:33] <vibol> and also can we install landscape with ha without using juju @mgz
[12:39] <mgz> vibol: I believe so, but you'll need poke landscape for that
[19:42] <vmorris> i have a question about charms running in a private maas deployment. i have configured http proxy in the model at bootstrap and things tend to come up fine so long as they are running inside lxd containers; however, whenever I try to deploy something directly to a maas machine, it tries to talk to the api server over ipv6. this normally woudn't be a problem but the requests are hitting my proxy server and are being rejected
[19:43] <vmorris> trying to formulate a question.. lol. How about: is there a way to force the charm deployment to only communicate over ipv4?
[19:47] <rick_h_> vmorris: juju allows using a contraint for deployment that might help there. You'd have to setup different spaces in maas for ipv4/6 subnets perhaps? and then get juju bootstrapped onto the ipv4 space and I would hope we'd use that to communicate vs the v6
[19:47] <rick_h_> vmorris: if that doesn't work I'd suggest mailing the list and I'll get some of our networking folks to formulate a more intelligent response vs a guess
[19:48] <lazyPower> rick_h_ - we used to have a prefer_ipv4  thing in the 1.24 era
[19:48] <rick_h_> lazyPower: right, that went away
[19:48] <lazyPower> rick_h_ - do you konw if that got scrubbed? i'm not finding it in teh docs anymore
[19:49] <lazyPower> ok, thats what i suspected.
[19:49] <lazyPower> thanks for confirming
[19:49] <rick_h_> lazyPower: yea, caused some issues as much as it solved and we need a better way to do that right
[19:49]  * lazyPower nods
[19:49] <vmorris> rick_h_: hmm, okay. i've been able to keep ipv6 subnets from showing up in MAAS by disabling the v6 stack on the maas controller
[19:49] <vmorris> but I keep ending up with messages like this in the juju debug log: ERROR juju.worker.dependency "uniter" manifold worker returned unexpected error: preparing operation "install cs:neutron-gateway-232": failed to download charm "cs:neutron-gateway-232" from API server: GET https://[fd55:faaf:e1ab:a4f:5054:ff:fea9:25aa]:17070/model/3a3a6a0e-e580-437c-8b25-211b188de393/charms?file=%2A&url=cs%3Aneutron-gateway-232: Get https://[fd55:faaf:e1ab:a4f:5054:ff:fea9:
[19:49] <vmorris> 25aa]:17070/model/3a3a6a0e-e580-437c-8b25-211b188de393/charms?file=%2A&url=cs%3Aneutron-gateway-232: Forbidden
[19:49] <vmorris> ew sorry
[19:50] <vmorris> these requests are hitting my http proxy server and are getting denied there
[19:50] <rick_h_> vmorris: hmm, but is something in the proxy path getting routed via ipv6? I mean if the ipv6 stack isn't on in maas not sure how juju would be initiating ipv6 traffic
[19:52] <vmorris> rick_h_: that's another thing i don't understand, this is the sort of message I see in the squid access log:
[19:52] <vmorris> <IP_ADDRESS> TCP_DENIED/403 3936 CONNECT [fd55:faaf:e1ab:a23:5054:ff:fe14:7dc2]:17070 - HIER_NONE/- text/htm
[19:52] <vmorris> wouldn't thins indicate that the request is coming in on ipv4?
[19:53] <rick_h_> vmorris: hmm, 17070 is the controller port. I'm not sure on the ipv4 part. Would have to try to match those ip addresses with your infrastructure and see what machines are doing what there
[19:54] <vmorris> rick_h_: these are all maas machines and lxd containers that came up as a result of a juju deploy
[19:55] <rick_h_> vmorris: right, but you're saying that the nodes don't have ipv6 enabled
[19:55] <rick_h_> vmorris: and so the ipv6 addresses must be coming from some dhcp/etc on the network?
[19:55] <vmorris> ah no.. the maas controller doesn't have ipv6 enabled
[19:55] <vmorris> i don't know if i can control ipv6 on the nodes
[19:56] <rick_h_> vmorris: so I'm curious how the deployed nodes/containers have ipv6 addresses
[19:58] <vmorris> rick_h_: ooh i see what you're saying
[19:58] <rick_h_> vmorris: right, the nodes and containers get their addresses either as hard coded or via the dhcp server maas runs.
[19:59] <rick_h_> vmorris: either way, the data comes from maas unless there's another thing in the mix there
[19:59] <vmorris> rich_h_: there's definitely not another dhcp server.. and i only enabled dhcp on the <IP_ADDRESS>/24 subnet.. yes where are they getting these addresses?
[20:00] <vmorris> here i'll get on the juju controller node and dump out some information
[20:01] <vmorris> rick_h_: https://paste.ubuntu.com/23389877/
[20:05] <vmorris> rick_h_: v6 addressing looks like it's coming in through MAAS metadata, looking for confirmation
[20:11] <vmorris> rick_h_: lazyPower: perhaps i should've been more clear.. i've disabled ipv6 on the maas-controller itself, but there is a way to disable it in the region/rack settings as well?
[20:44] <vmorris> rick_h_: let me back up and ask a more pointed question.. if i have 3 interfaces on a maas machine, but only want to use 2 of them in my juju deployments, i can do this with spaces?
[20:45] <vmorris> or, even more to the point - if i have internet connectivity out of one interface, but want to run my juju applications on another, how is this configured?
[20:48] <vmorris> also, according to the docs, spaces are only supported on EC2
[21:46] <vmorris> question: when running juju deploy with --debug, i'm seeing some messages from httpbakery client.go GET to api.jujucharms.com -- are these requests coming from the juju controller machine?


[07:46] <MooDoo> morning all
[13:18] <dholbach> http://ubuntungo.wordpress.com/2010/03/28/interview-informatici-senza-frontiere-local-comboni-samaritan-of-gulu/
[13:18] <dholbach> ^ can somebody pass this on?
[13:26] <MooDoo> dholbach, twitter?
[13:26] <dholbach> MooDoo: hm?
[13:26] <MooDoo> sorry got confused byt the can someone pass this on
[13:27] <dholbach> oh sorry
[13:27] <dholbach> I meant the comment and thought I had linked to it
[13:28] <MooDoo> :)


[07:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4690 Publishing packages
[07:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mitya57, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4690 Proposed pocket
[12:53] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4691 Publishing packages
[12:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4692 Publishing packages
[12:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4693 Publishing packages
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[13:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- 3v1n0, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4692 UNAPPROVED queue
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[15:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jamespage, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4054 Ready to build
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[07:52] <rajivmars> Today i have installed xubuntu-desktop on kubuntu 16.04. Everything works fine  until i turn my computer off. now when i turn it on and try to log in to xubuntu session, it is hanged on at the login screen. I mean i am not able to login and the computer freeze at the login screen. Anyone please help me?
[10:06] <user|43810> Upgrading to 16.04 caused my Asus laptop to stop booting. It takes several reboots to get to the bios to change the boot device in order to run 15.10 from a CD so I can get online and aks if anyone else has a similar problem.
[10:07] <soee> not here
[10:07] <soee> where is stoped booting exactly ?
[10:08] <soee> brb, need to jump to shop
[10:42] <user|43810> After the first "Kubuntu" screen it goes black and sits there... it takes a few 3-finger boots to get to the bios screen. I'd like to try and recover some data which was not properly backed up, but it seems to overwritten everything and then failed to finish the install or something.
[10:43] <soee> user|43810: you can't reinstall ? Fresh installation
[10:44] <soee> if you have black screen after plymouth so it seems sddm does not starts
[10:44] <soee> you tried to install 16.04 ? Over what previous version ?
[10:49] <user|43810> I was using 14.04 and had the offer to upgrade, so I cannot reinstall as I have no media to install from. I am considering installing 15.10 to get a reasonable OS but I'd like to have the option to recover some old files which I seem to have lost. Obviously I was behind in my back-ups, I've been busy in the garden and didn't allocate enough time to
[10:49] <user|43810>  back up things. Stupid, really.
[10:51] <soee> user|43810: you can use command line to backup them no ?
[10:52] <user|43810> I cannot get to a command line, the thing does nothing but sit with a blank screen until I boot from an external drive.
[10:53] <user|43810> If you are using 16.04 with no problems, did you do it from an online upgrade or did you make an install CD?
[10:54] <user|43810> It indicated everything had upgraded successfully but when I tried to boot up, I get the "Asus" screen, the "Kubuntu" screen and then... black
[11:01] <soee> user|43810: i had fresh install
[11:01] <soee> you should be able to switch to command line from that black screen
[11:02] <soee> try key combination kie LAT + SHIFT + F1 etc
[11:02] <soee> or boot to command line from grub
[11:02] <soee> where you pick system choose recovery mode
[11:07] <user|43810> Not sure what is LAT...? But I tried recovery mode... no good.
[11:48] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:33] <user|14779> After upgrade from 14.04 Ltsdto16.04 lt
[13:33] <user|14779> Q
[13:36] <user|14779> After upgrade 14.04 lts to 16.04 lts splash screen hangs
[13:45] <BluesKaj> user|14779, did you upgrade your 14.04 packages before upgrading to 16.04. a lot of users forget to do so and end up with a broken upgrade
[13:58] <user|56115> After 16.04 Lts upgrade splash screen hangs
[14:01] <user|56115> Sorry
[14:02] <CodeX3> test
[14:04] <user|56115> Can't startx in root
[14:15] <user|56115> After upgrade from 14.04 lts to16.0 lts I get splash screen freeze
[14:19] <user|56115> Splash screen froze after upgrade to 16.04 lts
[14:49] <Kardi_> where r the files for Quassel stored? (i need to choose it as an app in firefox)
[15:02] <BluesKaj> Kardi_, quassel doesn't run in FF, it's a stand alone irc client
[15:30] <Kardi_> ok
[15:30] <Kardi_> but where are its files anyway (I don't much about linux)
[15:32] <Kardi_> sys? run? dev? var? srv? mnt?
[15:36] <Kardi_> *know
[15:38] <Smurphy> Kardi_: These are all system locations.
[15:38] <Smurphy> make a: which quassel
[15:38] <Smurphy> and you will know where quassel is (executable binary)
[15:40] <Kardi_> Is "make a: which quassel" console code? I got [make: *** No rule to make target `a:'.  Stop.]
[15:46] <Kardi_> found it, just "which quassel" in konsole gives answer
[15:47] <BluesKaj> Kardi_,  no need to compile , qussel is in the repositories
[15:47] <BluesKaj> quassel even
[15:48] <BluesKaj> just run , sudo apt install quassel in the terminal
[15:50] <Kardi_> yes thanks all good
[16:10] <Ace2> hi all , anybody around
[16:12] <BluesKaj> yes Ace2, just ask your question
[16:13] <Ace2> Well I installed the upgrade to 16.04 yesterday
[16:13] <Ace2> besides looking like windows 95 , which a theme helped to change , ther eis a problem with desktop icons
[16:13] <Ace2> they all have a box around them
[16:13] <Ace2> can't be rotated as well
[16:13] <Ace2> wth is this?
[16:13] <Ace2> no setting i can find changes it
[16:14] <BluesKaj> system settings > icons
[16:14] <Ace2> been there
[16:15] <Ace2> thried all the themes , no settings to take away the boxes
[16:15] <BluesKaj> update and upgrade after 16,04 was installed?
[16:15] <Ace2> converted from 14. directly
[16:16] <Ace2> the last lts release
[16:16] <BluesKaj> no matter
[16:16] <Ace2> yes and updated before doing the major update
[16:16] <BluesKaj> aster as well
[16:16] <BluesKaj> after
[16:16] <Ace2> it says no updates available
[16:18] <BluesKaj> perhaps the icon themes from 14.04 didn't revert to default when they aren't available on 16.04
[16:19] <Ace2> well it carried over programs and my mail ect. so maybe possible
[16:19] <Ace2> but er how on earth to fix it without full reinstall?
[16:20] <Ace2> it with anything i put on desktop firefox widget , folders ect.
[16:20] <BluesKaj> do you m ean the icons in the taskbar?
[16:20] <Ace2> icons on desktop
[16:21] <Ace2> boxes around them
[16:21] <Ace2> all other icons seem changed anyways
[16:22] <Ace2> more tirvial , but i can't stop the silly accesibility feature in panel at bottom right from restarting itself
[16:22] <Ace2> kinda of tauning me lol
[16:23] <Ace2> i do not need a screen reader , nice but no thx
[16:27] <BluesKaj> bgiithe taskbar icons here are in transparent boxes, but I see your point , icons don't even appear on my activities desktops only their names
[16:28] <BluesKaj> bgi typo
[16:29] <Ace2> i get the desktop icons , but come with big boxes surrounding them , can't rotate them either , can only resize
[16:29] <Ace2> can make them as big as screen
[16:29] <Ace2> but come with bigger boxes to boot , so weird
[16:30] <Ace2> in desktop affects nothing takes these boxes away lol
[16:32] <BluesKaj> I use quicklaunch widget and drag my fav apps to it , no clutter on the desktop
[16:33] <Ace2> might be my work around till , this gets figured out
[16:34] <Ace2> is that standard widget in system?
[16:34] <BluesKaj> yes
[16:34] <BluesKaj> click the the 3stacked dashes on far right for widgets
[16:35] <BluesKaj> some call it the hamburger
[16:36] <Ace2> quick launc or app launcher
[16:36] <BluesKaj> quicklaunch
[16:37] <Ace2> added it to desktop now its a picture of a space ship lol
[16:38] <BluesKaj> yeah then add your apps from the kmenu..Imoved over to left hand side of the taskbar so it's easy to drag and drop
[16:39] <BluesKaj> the quicklaunch that is
[16:39] <Ace2> how do i add apps to the space ship
[16:40] <Ace2> k kind got it
[16:40] <Ace2> now i added fire fox and its a big fire fox ison with a box too haha
[16:40] <Ace2> this is gonna be a long weekend :)
[16:41] <Ace2> k now second icon fore mail in ther
[16:41] <Ace2> e
[16:43] <Ace2> can you add a showt cut to a folder
[16:45] <Ace2> seems not
[16:46] <BluesKaj> the icons should be small in the quicklaunch , you must have added them to the taskbar
[16:47] <Ace2> the icons are to the left of the littl rock
[16:48] <BluesKaj> mine are beside the kmenu on the left
[16:48] <Ace2> guess mine are in task bar
[16:49] <Ace2> does the launch menu pop up or are the supposed to be show
[16:49] <Ace2> n
[16:51] <Ace2> wel thx for help , i'll keep at it have a good one blues
[16:59] <Ace2> ahh yea you were right
[16:59] <Ace2> added icons to task bar , why the little rock kept showing
[16:59] <Ace2> rocket
[17:21] <tonythetiger> Is there something special I need to do to get image and media converters, and root actions in the dolphin right click? If I try to install from dolphin's addon installer they all fail to install. I tried adding root-actions manually and I can see the options but none of them actually do anything
[20:03] <sexteenDot04dot1> ISO verify failure: http://pastebin.com/rB9QEvWc
[20:04] <sexteenDot04dot1> where are the keys?
[20:04] <user|54313> can not boot from grub after update to 16.04.1 lts
[20:05] <sexteenDot04dot1> any clue?
[20:06] <sexteenDot04dot1> kubuntu owned?
[20:07] <ranu> Hello has anyone experienced a problem where the mouse leaves a tray where it goes? Not always, it is very strange
[20:09] <ranu> hm, it looks like deactivating vga output stopped the mouse effect
[20:56] <ranu> Is there any way to run the composition manager with the discrete graphics card?
[21:01] <soee> hm?
[21:01] <mhg> hi, im trying to use vmware on kubuntu, which is a great distro, i love KDE. thanks its developers. but i have errors, like this http://askubuntu.com/questions/755238/why-disabling-secure-boot-is-enforced-policy-when-installing-3rd-party-modules/759849 but i can't solve the problem
[21:03] <mhg> like this too, my output from terminal is same http://askubuntu.com/questions/762210/vmware-error-after-upgrade-to-ubuntu-16-04
[21:06] <Tundra-Server> Good afternoon everyone, I'm having some issues with my kubuntu 16.04 install. The install is fresh as of last night but for some reason the DM will not start
[21:06] <Tundra-Server> Does anyone have any ideas?
[21:13] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: If you can get to a TTY, you can try to reconfigure the DM...(sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm => choose/re-choose the DM) => see if that resolves the issue.
[21:14] <Tundra-Server> Returns that gdm is not installed
[21:14] <mhg> any idea?
[21:15] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: then do: sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm (or sddm or lightdm) => see what that does, hmm?
[21:16] <Tundra-Server> All return that they're not installed. Which would probably cause this problem
[21:17] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Ok - so, that being said, a simple solution is: sudo apt-get install sddm => after that, do: sudo dpkg-reconfigure sddm => just follow through all that is asked => once that is done, from the tty, do: sudo service sddm restart
[21:18] <Tundra-Server> Well, I thought that too but apt-get returns an error itself
[21:19] <mhg> Please help me!!!
[21:19] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: apt-get returns an error - hmm....what's the error?
[21:19] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Is it safe to assume that you've asked in #vmware?
[21:20] <mhg> YankDownUnder: no i didn't ask this on #vmware i will ask it now.
[21:20] <Tundra-Server> W: Not using locking for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[21:20] <YankDownUnder> mhg: If I had an answer, I'd gladly give it to you - however, I use Virtualbox, and I can't honestly tell you much other than what I have
[21:21] <Tundra-Server> E:couldn't create temporary file to work with /long/file/name
[21:21] <mhg> YankDownUnder: i have the same problem with VirtualBox too.
[21:21] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: When you're doing "apt-get install" -> you ARE using "sudo apt-get install", right?
[21:21] <Tundra-Server> Correct
[21:22] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Please do this in the tty: ps -Ae | grep update => tell me what shows up please
[21:22] <mhg> YankDownUnder: The VirtualBox Linux kernel driver (vboxdrv) is either not loaded or there is a permission problem with /dev/vboxdrv. Please install virtualbox-dkms package and load the kernel module by executing
[21:23] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Have you done: sudo apt-get install virtualbox-dkms ?
[21:24] <mhg> YankDownUnder: no i didn't. i do it now.
[21:24] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Coolbeans
[21:24] <mhg> YankDownUnder: virtualbox-dkms is already the newest version (5.0.24-dfsg-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>).
[21:25] <Tundra-Server> YankDownUnder: nothing is returned
[21:25] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Ok...how's about: sudo dpkg-reconfigure virtualbox
[21:26] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Ok...can you do this and tell me what happens: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade && sudo apt autoremove && sudo apt-autoclean
[21:27] <mhg> YankDownUnder: http://pastebin.com/qVucGtfd
[21:27] <Tundra-Server> Well it's working
[21:28] <Tundra-Server> That's what it says
[21:28] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Far out...and what happens when you do: sudo systemctl virtualbox restart => ??
[21:28] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Is it done yet?
[21:28] <Tundra-Server> Very big error
[21:29] <mhg> YankDownUnder: Unknown operation virtualbox.
[21:29] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: "Very big error" - hehehehee....right oh...and in a nutshell it says...?
[21:29] <Tundra-Server> Well, the bottom of the error shows the same lines I gave you earlier
[21:30] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Ok...what about: sudo apt-get -f install
[21:31] <mhg> YankDownUnder: http://pastebin.com/eDmmUaRH
[21:31] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: What is returned when you do: ps -AE | grep dm ?
[21:32] <Tundra-Server> Lowercase "e" or upper?
[21:32] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Good - that at least shows that nothings "broken" as it were...now a question I would beg to ask is - have you rebooted the machine since? And if not, can you?
[21:33] <Tundra-Server> Cause one returns an error about the command itself and the other returns nothing
[21:33] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: ps -Ae | grep dm
[21:33] <Tundra-Server> Alright, I've got sddm returned
[21:33] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Right - so, can you try: sudo service sddm restart
[21:33] <mhg> YankDownUnder: yes, i have rebooted the system twice i think.
[21:34] <Tundra-Server> nada
[21:34] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Right oh, fair enough...I'm not wanting to ask you to re-install Virtualbox...unless you don't really have any VM's configured and such...
[21:34] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: "Nada" meaning, er, what, no errors?
[21:35] <Tundra-Server> No errors, but no desktop either
[21:35] <Tundra-Server> At least none that I can see
[21:35] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: So if you do "CTRL-ALT-F7" - nothing shows up?
[21:35] <Tundra-Server> That's correct
[21:35] <mhg> YankDownUnder: I don't have any VM's. i installed Kubuntu a week ago, it's my first VM.
[21:36] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Ok...since you're at the tty, can you do this: sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall => ??
[21:37] <Tundra-Server> Nope
[21:37] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Nothing happened?
[21:38] <Tundra-Server> Just returned another error with the one of the same lines I gave you earlier
[21:39] <YankDownUnder> Tundra-Server: Would you mind doing a reboot, please? (sudo reboot)
[21:40] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Can you edit and add something to your /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[21:42] <mhg> YankDownUnder: Yes.
[21:43] <mhg> YankDownUnder: in #vmware they told me to restart the system, i will be back in a minute
[21:43] <mhg> bye
[21:43] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Ok...so if you're comfortable with that, please read this page: https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads => this will setup the "latest and greatest" Virtualbox via PPA - not the one that's in the "Universal" repos...
[21:43] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> YankDownUnder: Well, that's a wrap. we're at initramfs
[21:44] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> I feel like I can now say that it's truely toast
[21:44] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: It's dead at the init. Lovely.
[21:44] <YankDownUnder> It's not toast yet.
[21:44] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Well, I'm not exactly up for sitting here for another 5 hrs troubleshooting this
[21:45] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> So I'm just gonna reinstall
[21:46] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Yes this would be a great time to learn
[21:46] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> But I've been running around all day
[21:46] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> So, YankDownUnder , thanks for you assistance on the matter
[21:47] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> *your
[21:48] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Can you read through this? http://www.howtogeek.com/196740/how-to-fix-an-ubuntu-system-when-it-wont-boot/
[21:48] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Certainly
[21:48] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: However, that being said, if you want to re-install, may I suggest that you make sure that you enable "updates" whilst installing?
[21:49] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Well, ya see, I did that
[21:51] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Fair enough - just checking...and do you have any "third party" drivers that require installation?
[21:51] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Not that I'm aware of
[21:52] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Coolbeans...coolbeans...well, if you're on the path to reinstallation (as I would do, in all honesty), good luck and fair weather :)
[21:53] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Thank you kind sir
[21:53] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: You're more than welcome. Peace.
[21:54] <mhg> YankDownUnder: hi, i have a new problem, i restarted the system, and display resolution is 1024x768 i can't change it in Display and Monitor
[21:55] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Does your system require graphics drivers that aren't installed? Or do you have multiple monitors?
[21:55] <mhg> YankDownUnder: i try to install Nvidia driver last time before restart, but i had some errors. but no multiple monitors
[21:56] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Right oh -  so then the most important thing do do (doing things step by step) is to get the NVidia drivers installed first and foremost...
[21:56] <_thelion_> Hi, how do i set up bonjour in kde-telepathy, please? (Kubuntu 16.04)
[21:56] <mhg> YankDownUnder:  i have NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-367.35.run . is it correct?
[21:59] <YankDownUnder> mhg: I'm honestly not sure - I don't have NVidia on my systems - is that what was recommended?
[21:59] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: Is the package "kde-config-telepathy-accounts" installed on your system?
[22:00] <YankDownUnder> mhg: I'll assume you've downloaded that, yes?
[22:00] <mhg> YankDownUnder: yes, but i don't remmember my graphic card model exactly
[22:01] <mhg> YankDownUnder:   ERROR: Unable to load the 'nvidia-drm' kernel module.
[22:01] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Doesn't matter - here's something to try - before you run the NVidia install - in a terminal, type: sudo ubuntu-drivers list
[22:01] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Try using the Ubuntu cert drivers first...as per my last message...
[22:01] <_thelion_> YankDownUnder: yes,this package is installed
[22:02] <mhg> YankDownUnder: http://pastebin.com/wbeM6xEr
[22:02] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: Vrai - ok...so what then is the problem that you are having with trying to set up the accounts?
[22:03] <YankDownUnder> mhg: In the same terminal, can you type: sudo lspci | grep VGA => and see what the model is, please?
[22:03] <mhg> YankDownUnder: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GF108 [GeForce GT 630] (rev a1)
[22:04] <_thelion_> if i want to add a new account (like Bonjour), i don't find "Bonjour" on that list.
[22:05] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Ah...so you could try the nvidia-361 driver, hmm....
[22:05] <mhg> YankDownUnder: how to install that?
[22:05] <YankDownUnder> mhg: You could do: sudo ubuntu-drivers autoinstall
[22:05] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: So anything "bonjour" is not showing up, oui?
[22:07] <_thelion_> yes. there's AIM,  Gadu-Gadu, Google, ICQ, Jabber, etc - but there isn't xmpp, neither bonjour.
[22:07] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: Looking...
[22:11] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: I can't find anything else related to this, but another channel to check is #kde-telepathy => I had problems originally - with something different - but the same - telepathy - and I ended up having to completely re-install all the "account" and "telepathy" related packages - but I'm not sure if that would be the same for you - so please check in that channel, they might be able to help further...
[22:13] <_thelion_> YankDownUnder: Thanks a lot - i will try it in that other channel
[22:13] <YankDownUnder> _thelion_: Pais.
[22:17] <mhg> YankDownUnder: good news. the nvidia driver is working fine now. the vmware is fine too, i disabled the secure boot, on installation of nvidia driver
[22:18] <YankDownUnder> mhg: So you're buying donuts this morning?
[22:19] <mhg> YankDownUnder: :D i have an other quetstion. i have persian language on my system, all the numbers are in persian, i want them in english, how to fix this?
[22:19] <mhg> clock, calendar, ... .
[22:21] <YankDownUnder> Should be "System Settings" => "Regional Settings" => "Formats"
[22:22] <mhg> YankDownUnder: the region is United States - American English (en_US)
[22:23] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Then you'd need to change things as you see fit - or what you feel the most comfortable with (what works for you) :)
[22:24] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Also check "Translations"
[22:24] <mhg> YankDownUnder: the Preferred Language is American English but everything is persian in my system
[22:25] <mhg> plus one more problem, the right shift key is not working after restarting and driver installation. i don't know why.
[22:26] <YankDownUnder> mhg: So you've done all the checking and changing in "Regional Settings" - you might want to logout/login and see if that resolves the issue.
[22:27] <mhg> YankDownUnder: restart dose not help? i restarted system several times now.
[22:30] <mhg> YankDownUnder: login/logout does not help.
[22:31] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Read though this: https://ubuntu-mate.community/t/change-language-settings-in-ubuntu/3448 (read through it - even though it's "Mate" based, you'll see where you can affect overall languages from the base system)
[22:33] <mhg> YankDownUnder: i see this http://pastebin.com/5nP9YT10 . is this the problem?
[22:35] <YankDownUnder> mhg: "fa_*" is showing "Farsi" (Persian) as a base for time/numbers/money/etc => so you'd have to change that - unless you require Persian as a base for money/time/date/numbers...
[22:36] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Something MORE to read! :) => https://wiki.debian.org/ChangeLanguage
[22:39] <mhg> YankDownUnder: i changed them, reboot the system. everything is fine now. thanks
[22:39] <YankDownUnder> mhg: Ok...so, you can send the donuts anytime now...
[22:39] <mhg> :D
[22:40] <YankDownUnder> :)
[23:29] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Hey YankDownUnder you still around?
[23:36] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: I think so...but I could be mistaken.
[23:36] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Hehe
[23:37] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Well, do you know if an SCSI driver would be a third party or should I rely on the one that the OS installs
[23:37] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> ?
[23:38] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: I'd use the one that's built into the kernel/system firstly - unless it's specifically proprietary - which I highly doubt...what's it for? iSCSI or just plain SCSI?
[23:39] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Straight up SCSI
[23:39] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Should be good to go - right "out of the box" as it were...SCSI drives...hmm...used to love those...
[23:40] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> Hehe, I had a buddy offload some old drives and controller cards to me
[23:40] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> So I figured I'd make use of them
[23:41] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Now I'm jealous. Last time someone did that to me - I grouped 'em all up and made a single "drive" out of 'em...chew up heaps of power, but I didn't care at the time...
[23:42] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> :(
[23:43] <YankDownUnder> Tundra_O1dDsktop: Made for a great "disk" for the network, though
[23:43] <Tundra_O1dDsktop> :)


[14:09] <maths22> I'm getting a very strange error on https://launchpad.net/~maths22/+archive/ubuntu/ruby-testing/+build/25478307 and i don't know how to debug it.  It seems to be complaining that it can't find gem2deb, but gem2deb is a focal universe package, and universe is enabled for this ppa: https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/gem2deb .  In case it matters, this package builds just fine on jammy.
[14:27] <cjwatson> maths22: It's actually complaining that gem2deb is present but uninstallable in combination with your other build-dependencies
[14:28] <cjwatson> maths22: Unfortunately apt doesn't say why, but if you set up a test environment with your PPA then it may be possible to drill down into what's going on
[14:28] <maths22> ooh ok i at least better understand the issue then and know what i need to try to repro
[14:28] <maths22> thanks
[14:28] <cjwatson> maths22: Probably something to do with the various ruby packages in your PPA, at a guess
[14:47] <maths22> :sigh: of course it doesn't repro in a test environment; even with my ppa added it happily installed gem2deb along with the other packages
[15:01] <maths22> Confirmed in a clean pbuilder env that if i add my ppa i still can install gem2deb
[15:08] <cjwatson> maths22: Interesting, I can't reproduce it either in my setup
[15:08] <cjwatson> maths22: I'll retry your build just to avoid possibly wasting time on something that was transient
[15:08] <cjwatson> Hm except somebody already recently did, presumably you
[15:09] <maths22> Yeah i retried it (I tried adding backports to the set of packages in case it helped; sadly it did not)
[15:10] <cjwatson> Mm, more likely to make it worse
[15:11] <maths22> I just did that because the docker container i tested in had backports enabled and it worked there
[15:11] <cjwatson> maths22: Very weird.  I'm a bit short of time right now but I'm happy to investigate further if you can wait a bit - could you file a support ticket using the URL in the topic as a reminder?
[15:12] <maths22> Sure.  Thank you!
[15:14] <maths22> Filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/2002662
[15:14] -ubottu:#launchpad- Launchpad bug 2002662 in Launchpad itself "build deps uninstallable but work locally" [Undecided, New]
[15:14] <maths22> Please let me know if anything about it needs adjustment
[15:15] <cjwatson> Oh, I meant https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[15:15] <cjwatson> But OK, I guess I can move it
[15:16] <cjwatson> (moved)
[15:17] <maths22> Ugh oops, I didn't see that link.  Thank you that seems more appropriate.


[23:22] <_Marcus> Hello! Is there any more art like the defaults in Ubuntu? They look really nice and I was looking for some more


[06:40] <ricotz> hello :), I am wondering if this build is stuck or still working hard in the background? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:7.1.1~rc2-0ubuntu1/+build/21083931
[06:41] <ricotz> same for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:7.1.1~rc2-0ubuntu1/+build/21083932
[10:04] <cjwatson> ricotz: I can't say, don't know this package's build system well enough
[10:05] <cjwatson> ricotz: IIRC that sort of thing is normally a pkgbinarymangler bug of some kind
[10:49] <rainmanp7> .
[10:57] <ricotz> cjwatson, I see, it seems it hasn't moved in the last hours, could you cancel and restart both?
[10:59] <cjwatson> ricotz: cancelled, do you want to grab build logs for inspection before I retry?
[11:00] <ricotz> cjwatson, grabbed them both, please proceed :)
[11:15] <cjwatson> ricotz: done
[11:37] <ricotz> cjwatson, thank you
[22:51] <ricotz> cjwatson, if you are still around, please cancel and restart https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/1:7.1.1~rc2-0ubuntu1/+build/21083933
[22:51] <cjwatson> ricotz: can cancel; is there any reason to believe a retry will work?
[22:51] <ricotz> cjwatson, the previous retry for amd64 worked
[22:52] <ricotz> the other arm64 is still running
[22:53] <ricotz> this might be triggered by the recent load on the builders, and calmed down afaics
[22:54] <cjwatson> ricotz: hm, OK, retried.  I think it's more likely to be some kind of occasional race in pkgstripfiles (perhaps when run in parallel?), but not sure
[22:55] <RikMills> there are a few KDE packages that sometimes do that 'INFO: pkgstripfiles: waiting for lock' for quite a long time. they do eventually break that loop and finish
[22:56] <cjwatson> I've also seen it apparently run forever
[22:56] <cjwatson> it may be subtle in a way I don't currently understand
[22:56] <RikMills> I'm glad I have not had that then
[22:56] <cjwatson> (forever as in I noticed builds that had been running for a week stuck there)
[22:56] <RikMills> O_O
[22:56] <ricotz> cjwatson, the interesting part of the earlier amd64 log is https://paste.debian.net/plain/1187130
[22:56] <cjwatson> I realize this is not an astronomical or theological definition of forever but still :)
[22:57] <RikMills> longer that humanly tolerable....
[22:57] <RikMills> *than
[22:57] <cjwatson> ricotz: ah yes, that looks rather like bad error handling then, one would think it should have given up there
[22:58] <cjwatson> (leaving aside whatever caused that error to start with, which isn't obvious to me)
[23:00] <ricotz> cjwatson, there are disk space issues in the past, which the packaging has a mitigation for, but not sure if this gets hit again due the mangler
[23:01] <ricotz> cjwatson, thank you for restarting
[23:09] <ricotz> cjwatson, jfyi the other logs contain the "same" error
[23:43] <tsimonq2> Completed builds 290915 successful 49178 failed.
[23:44] <tsimonq2> We certainly don't need all of this data.
[23:44] <tsimonq2> I'm not seeing a way I can just delete old builds - does the Launchpad tooling do this by itself?
[23:45] <cjwatson> Can you be more specific?
[23:46] <cjwatson> And why is it important?
[23:48] <tsimonq2> It isn't important, I would just like to be somewhat thoughtful when the Lubuntu CI pumps out many, many builds per day. It's extremely useful for us in Lubuntu development, but we really don't need old build logs and artifacts from more than a week ago at best.
[23:48] <tsimonq2> I'm referring to the PPAs under ~lubuntu-ci.
[23:48] <cjwatson> Artifacts are automatically garbage-collected after a while when they're no longer published (in public PPAs, anyway).
[23:49] <cjwatson> We generally keep things like old build logs forever.  It's not particularly expensive for us to do so, and they're the sort of thing that's often unpredictably useful years later when doing some kind of archaeology.
[23:50] <cjwatson> If we didn't GC artifacts that would indeed become a problem for us much more quickly, but build logs are on average rather smaller.
[23:50] <cjwatson> There's no way to manually delete old builds.
[23:50] <cjwatson> (Short of SQL surgery on our part, which is much more expensive in terms of human time ...)
[23:50] <tsimonq2> That answers my query; if sysadmins are ever looking at things and it becomes a problem over a couple of years, feel free to purge those old logs. If it's not much of a nuisance then it looks like we're fine for now.
[23:51] <tsimonq2> I understand if it would take more work than it's worth. :)
[23:51] <cjwatson> I can say with some confidence that build logs are unlikely to be anywhere near the first place we go looking for space :-)
[23:51] <tsimonq2> Sounds good, thanks cjwatson. :)
[23:52] <cjwatson> Out of curiosity let me see if I can figure out how much space your build logs are currently using ...


[00:12] <valorie> azx: I would ppa-purge that PPA
[00:12] <valorie> sounds like a very badly configured one
[00:13] <valorie> or backup and reinstall if it is as bad as you say
 Sup
[05:45] <tacomaster> I am running kubuntu 19.04 on a system with a gtx 1070. I have the 418.56 driver installed and in games it seems like I do not have any screen tearing. When I am in kde and browsing the web I feel that i get quite a bit of screen tearing and just seeing if there was something I can do?
[05:48] <diogenes_> tacomaster, nvidia-settings --assign CurrentMetaMode="nvidia-auto-select +0+0 { ForceCompositionPipeline = On }"
[05:50] <tacomaster> If you don't mind can you please explain what this is actually doing?
[05:51] <tacomaster> Does this have any affect on video peformance or anything like that?
[05:52] <diogenes_> enabling compositing pipeline
[05:53] <tacomaster> diogenes_: Thank you. I found an docuemnt explaining this.
[05:57] <tacomaster> diogenes_: That killed one of my monitors?
[05:58] <diogenes_> reboot
[07:23] <jswift> send us some metals. we will do art.
[14:36] <Alexfrench> hello all
[14:42] <rijad> hi alexfrench
[14:42] <rijad> first time I see someone write in something in this channel
[14:43] <Alexfrench> really ?
[14:43] <Alexfrench> when was the last time you came here ?
[14:44] <Alexfrench> myself not for a few days
[14:44] <rijad> probably a week ago or something
[14:45] <rijad> i always autojoin this channel but nobody ever writes something in here so i just ignore it mostly
[14:48] <acheronuk> activity in here is a bit sporadic
[14:52] <Alexfrench> it is the same everywhere i am on others channels
[14:53] <Alexfrench> you can consider everything is fine on kubuntu so nobody have problems lol
[14:53] <rijad> not all channels are dead empty. The ##linux channel is pretty active, ##news is active, ##chat, #anime
[14:55] <M_aD> rijad: there was some activity since the last 3 days.
[14:56]  * M_aD is logged in 24/7
[14:56] <acheronuk> all chat is logged on https://irclogs.ubuntu.com
[14:56] <Alexfrench> yes it depends
[14:57] <Alexfrench> shower time i'll come back
[14:58] <M_aD> maybe it's better to go to the offtopic channel, dunno how strict they are here
[18:47] <runnicd> Plasma breaks when I try on different themes. By 'break' I mean the default theme won't load back correctly anymore. Anyone can help me?
 Hi.
 Anybody here testing Wayland?
[20:01] <Guest19026> hello


[11:47] <ice9> how efficient is Mir currently?
[12:12] <ogra_> ice9, efficient eough to be the default on all tablet and phone images
[12:13] <ice9> ogra_: I mean the desktop sorry
[12:13] <ogra_> yeah, no idea about that ...
[12:13] <ogra_> (since there is no desktop that could use Mir yet)(
[13:25] <mterry> What's the best way for USC to tell a session to "freeze" -- i.e. don't render any frames.  I thought it was hide(), but it seems that doesn't stop it from swapping buffers.  In 0.1.9, I'm guessing I use lifecycle events.  But what about 0.1.8?
[13:36] <kgunn> mterry: do you want everyone to freeze ? i would assume yes
[13:36] <mterry> kgunn, in this particular instance I want to be able to freeze a whole session -- all its surfaces.  So not quite everyone (not all sessions)
[13:38]  * mterry goes afk real quick
[13:38] <kgunn> mterry: i would have thought hide as well....is it really about the rendering ? or you just want a still frame ? e.g. the analogy  hear would be unity-mir using snapshots i think
[13:47] <kgunn> mterry: so out of curiosity i started to poke, wonder if set_lifecycle_state on session is what you'd want to use...altho, good news bad news, the i/f kinda sounds right, but not sure if anything acts on it
[13:48] <kgunn> AlbertA: camako ...am i reading the code correct ? ^ do the states of set_lifecycle_state not really get acted on?
[13:48] <camako> kgunn: checking
[13:54] <kgunn> i see where it makes it to protobuf_life_event and the state gets set, but then i don't really see any action taken on it...
[13:55] <camako> kgunn: I don't see set_lifecycle_state being called from anywhere
[13:56] <kgunn> camako: right, well...i was thinking it might server mterry's purpose (he's shell like in a sense with the greeter sitting on top of u-s-c)
[13:56] <kgunn> u-s-c==unity-system-compositor
[13:56] <kgunn> he wanted to halt apps (sessions) from rendering...
[13:57] <kgunn> not completely sure why yet...but seemed a sensible thing to want to do as a shell-like-thing
[14:00] <kgunn> camako: mterry ...so it's actually called in unity-mir, wonder if its an opaque msg (e.g. mir not acting on it but passed to platform-api)
[14:03] <mterry> kgunn, heyo, back.  So in 0.1.8, lifecycles don't seem to do much.  That might change in 0.1.9?
[14:03] <mterry> kgunn, the reason I want this is for split greeter boot animation -- on boot, we don't show the greeter session until both the greeter and user session are ready to go (i.e. we don't want to show the greeter without the user session behind it ready to go) but...
[14:04] <mterry> kgunn, the greeter also has a "fade in animation" that we want to have happen when the user sees it -- so ideally when the greeter is ready, I could "freeze" it until the user session is also ready so the user sees the full fade in animation -- as is today, the user may miss the animation because the greeter was running through it while waiting for the user session.  Make sense?
[14:05] <mterry> kgunn, this may be yet another blocker for split mode from the design side
[14:05] <mterry> kgunn, sometimes the user session is ready before the greeter, so there's no problem.  But not always.  So it's a bit of a race and design prefers the animation always happen, naturally
[14:07] <kgunn> mterry: afaik, w 0.1.9, only additional mgmt atm is coming with qtubuntu where the exposeEvent is triggered
[14:07] <mterry> kgunn, I really did think hide() did that though.  I'd like to hear if it's intended to do that and I'm making some mistake or if that's just not the API I want
[14:08] <kgunn> mterry: yeah...makes sense....basically, when the greeter is ready "well before" the user session, there's no fade, and it just looks like a hard switch/hard transition animation (
[14:08] <mterry> Yeah.  "well before" can be on the order of just a second though.  Fade in animation isn't super long
[14:09] <kgunn> mterry: my only fear there, is hide won't "halt renders" in 0.1.9
[14:09] <kgunn> this is the whole point of the non-block swap
[14:09] <kgunn> mterry: all this being said....sounds like a sensible control for a shell-like thing to have
[14:09] <mterry> kgunn, right.  But lifecycle would replace that, eh?
[14:10] <mterry> kgunn, or yeah, maybe we need to add a tiny bit of API
[14:10] <mterry> kgunn, this seems like a reasonable use case
[14:10] <mterry> kgunn, I'll file a feature bug, not sure who can work on it though
[14:10] <kgunn> mterry: my worry on life cycle even with 0.1.9...is that, the side channel is racy also... so, you end up getting some "renders you don't see"
[14:10] <mterry> kgunn, I see
[14:14] <kgunn> mterry: actually...when was the last time you dealt with lifecycle events ?....i do see some handling of it in platform-api as well...ubuntu_application_api_mirclient.cpp
[14:16] <mterry> kgunn, I tried to use them for this purpose last Friday
[14:16] <mterry> kgunn, didn't seem to do anything that I could see (I still saw swap_buffers being called for the client after I used lifecycle calls)
[14:17] <kgunn> hmmm....
[14:17] <mterry> kgunn, bug 1310637 is the feature request, which might just get closed with a "this can already be done" comment
[14:17] <kgunn> mterry: wonder if this is a failing of nested ?
[15:00] <AlbertA> kgunn: well it's a feature of non-blocking
[15:00] <AlbertA> "feature"
[15:01] <kgunn> AlbertA: yes yes...
[15:13] <kgunn> AlbertA: i wouldn't drive yourself too crazy optimizing that 2% out before putting up MP's for the switching bundle change
[15:14] <kgunn> e.g. propose 1 set...then you can always propose a subsequent optimizATION SET
[15:14] <kgunn> oops...sorry cap lock strike
[15:14] <AlbertA> kgunn: o
[15:14] <AlbertA> kgunn: ok
[15:18] <kgunn> dang it... camako, could you share that acceptance test hit-list you, alan, kdub created ?
[15:19] <kgunn> or share the name i can search...
[15:19] <racarr__> Nah. thanks though.
[15:19] <racarr__> err kgunn ^
[15:19] <racarr__> went in to wrong channel
[15:19] <kgunn> i forgot to save the link
[15:19] <racarr__> lol
[15:19] <kgunn> racarr__: :)
[15:19] <AlbertA> kgunn: should be in e-mail
[15:19] <kgunn> duh...
[15:20] <camako> kgunn :https://docs.google.com/document/d/17T4H5IhbfIPK3hErFz7VCmXReOywrHQnWwt_dTxe0kI/edit?usp=sharing
[15:22] <racarr__> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16EYejUic_0 - Great Code Review music.
[15:55] <AlbertA> racarr__: :(
[15:55] <AlbertA> racarr__: I mean :)
[16:00] <AlbertA> mterry: kgunn: the greeter has to listen to lifecycle events and stop its own rendering loop
[16:01] <AlbertA> mterry: kgunn: mir won't do anything to prevent that
[16:01] <AlbertA> mterry: kgunn: with the non-block swap behavior
[16:03] <kgunn> camako: as and when people start to free up and ask for things todo... i think items #1, #3, #4, #10 in your acceptance test doc make the most sense...
[16:04] <kdub> 6 is more of a sub-bullet for 3
[16:04] <mterry> AlbertA, OK...  Does 0.1.8 already have the ability for it to do that?
[16:05] <AlbertA> mterry: non-blocking?
[16:05] <AlbertA> mterry: that will be coming in 0.1.9
[16:05] <mterry> AlbertA, for the greeter to listen to lifecycle events
[16:05] <AlbertA> mterry: you could do that now, that's what gerry is using for qtubuntu
[16:05] <racarr__> The QPA is handling that for clients at least. Is it different because greeter is using qtubuntu-mirserver?
[16:06] <camako> kgunn: I'll keep that in mind
[16:06] <mterry> racarr__, greeter is using unity-mir/mirserver.  I guess that makes it different?
[16:06] <AlbertA> racarr__: oh it's in-process?
[16:06] <racarr__> Ci
[16:06] <racarr__> But using qtubuntu
[16:06] <racarr__> so the logic should be there, so maybe its just flipped off for in process? not sure hwo the shell
[16:07] <racarr__> is handling render stop
[16:07] <AlbertA> mterry: greeter is qml?
[16:07] <AlbertA> mterry: the new version?
[16:07] <AlbertA> mterry: I mean the new split version of the greeter?
[16:09] <mterry> AlbertA, yeah, it basically runs same code as unity8, just different plugins/qml
[16:09] <AlbertA> mterry: you probably want to ping greyback then on how he uses the lifecyle to stop rendering
[16:11] <AlbertA> https://code.launchpad.net/~gerboland/qtubuntu/surface-visible-hidden-side-channel/+merge/215884
[16:11] <AlbertA> mterry: ^
[16:12] <racarr__> https://code.launchpad.net/~josharenson/mir/install_glmark2/+merge/216504
[16:12] <racarr__> jenkins was ignoring
[16:12] <racarr__> this branch...wonder why
[16:12] <racarr__> (I just manually requested a CI review)
[16:12] <racarr__> but there was none pending
[16:14] <mterry> AlbertA, thanks, will poke around
[16:28] <mterry> AlbertA, oh right.  But I remember talking about the side channel for lifecycles and it is too slow -- can't rely on when it stops rendering
[16:29] <AlbertA> mterry: oh the 3 sec delay?
[16:29] <mterry> AlbertA, greyback's comments greyback's indicate that hide() *should* do what I want.  but it doesn't seem to
[16:29] <mterry> maybe he's talking about Qt's hide
[16:29] <AlbertA> mterry: yeah beginning with 0.1.9 hide means don't show in screen
[16:29] <AlbertA> mterry: but apps can still render
[16:29] <mterry> AlbertA, 3 seconds?  I dunno.  I remember hearing it was "racy" in the sense that some frames might be rendered before the client handles lifecycle event
[16:30] <mterry> AlbertA, right.  So I think I need a new API added -- stop_rendering() or some such that a server can tell a client session
[16:30] <mterry> AlbertA, I filed bug 1310637
[16:31] <AlbertA> mterry: and this is for in-process clients right?
[16:31] <mterry> AlbertA, i'm not sure about that term.  It's USC talking to the greeter.  So separate processes?
[16:32] <AlbertA> mterry: oh...
[16:32] <racarr__> Yes, greeter is its own
[16:32] <racarr__> mirsrever instance though correct?
[16:32] <racarr__>  /it was
[16:32] <mterry> racarr__, yes
[16:32] <racarr__> :)
[16:33] <mterry> racarr__, but from USC perspective, it doesn't care what the session is, it just wants to stop it from doing anything
[16:33] <mterry> maybe I should just send a SIGSTOP...
[16:34] <mterry> That actually doesn't sound so dumb...
[16:34] <AlbertA> mterry: but that would introduce the same issues we are trying to resolve
[16:34] <mterry> Still a bit racy I guess
[16:34] <AlbertA> mterry: with non-blocking
[16:34] <mterry> AlbertA, this is a specific use case, not a general thing that USC always wants to do
[16:34] <mterry> AlbertA, I'm specifically trying to synchronize rendering between two sessions
[16:35] <racarr__> mm...which is making me kind of think there
[16:35] <racarr__> I mean if its literally just a fade
[16:35] <racarr__> then the fade could be done
[16:35] <racarr__> server side
[16:35] <racarr__> with set_alpha
[16:35] <AlbertA> mterry: but the problem is the animation will be already over
[16:35] <mterry> Not just a fade.  Different elements grow and become more opaque, each on their own timer
[16:35] <mterry> racarr__, ^
[16:35] <AlbertA> mterry: in the greeter
[16:35] <racarr__> Mm -.-
[16:35] <mterry> AlbertA, sorry, how do you mean?
[16:36] <AlbertA> mterry: is it just a fade? or some other cutesy stuff?
[16:36] <mterry> AlbertA, I mean, that's the problem I have today that I'm trying to solve yeah
[16:36] <AlbertA> mterry: I'm thinking more in general terms
[16:36] <AlbertA> mterry: that may change in the future
[16:36] <mterry> AlbertA, cutesy stuff.  Panel drops down from top, clock time grows from 0.8 to 1.0 size and goes from 0 to 1 opacity
[16:36] <mterry> clock fades in similarly
[16:36] <AlbertA> mterry: yeah that's what I mean, you couldn't do that at the mir server side
[16:36] <AlbertA> mterry: qt controls all that
[16:37] <AlbertA> mterry: but is it possible for the greeter to start in hide mode (hide in qt sense)
[16:37] <mterry> AlbertA, right.  But I just want to have USC send a message to the session that says "don't handle any buffers" so that Qt will stop until we unfreeze it
[16:37] <AlbertA> mterry: right - but that kinda goes agains the non-blocking decision
[16:38] <mterry> AlbertA, I agree as a general thing.  But I'm saying there is a specific use case where we do actually want the ability to block
[16:38] <racarr__> this is only in the specific case though, triggered by shell code in USC
[16:38] <racarr__> mm
[16:38] <mterry> AlbertA, this isn't about app lifecycle
[16:38] <AlbertA> kgunn: mterry: where it was decided that mir would not enforce at all rendering loop behavior implicitly by blocking
[16:39] <AlbertA> mterry: I guess if its short lived it should be ok
[16:40] <AlbertA> mterry: so you can't tell QT to not render at all when creating the greeter stuff? it always starts rendering no matter what?
[16:40] <AlbertA> mterry: just curious
[16:41] <mterry> AlbertA, well.  I could have the greeter start in frozen mode.  But then I'd need a signal to unfreeze it.  Which is this same problem, just much more app-specific
[16:42] <AlbertA> mterry: plus in any case, it would be hard to do frame level synch transitions to screen
[16:42] <mterry> And the problem is really a compositor specific one.  Not really greeter-specific.  I feel like the abstraction for this belongs in mir compositor code
[16:42] <AlbertA> mterry: you most likely would get some black frames at the beginning
[16:44] <AlbertA> mterry: maybe if we send transition events to each of the sessions that are transitioning from each other
[16:44] <AlbertA> mterry: and we wait until the transition event is acked
[16:45] <AlbertA> mterry: like one for being transitioned to
[16:45] <AlbertA> mterry: and one for being transitioned out of
[16:45] <mterry> AlbertA, it would be useful if a mir client knew it was being transitioned away from (we will eventually want to know this for the tiny boot animation app so it can fade out too)
[16:46] <AlbertA> mterry: so we send transition out of - wait until ack - the client receives it
[16:46] <mterry> client fades out, acks back
[16:46] <AlbertA> mterry: does its cutesy shutdown transition animation, finishes and acks the message
[16:46] <mterry> yeah, that would be ideal
[16:46] <AlbertA> mterry: and the other client receives transition to
[16:46] <AlbertA> mterry: and same deal
[16:47] <mterry> AlbertA, except...  I'm not sure what we do there.
[16:47] <mterry> AlbertA, that seems like a separate problem from being able to freeze it until ready?
[16:47] <mterry> AlbertA, the greeter appears before we're ready to transition to it
[16:48] <AlbertA> mterry: well maybe we could block until a first ack is received
[16:48] <AlbertA> mterry: or something....
[16:48] <AlbertA> mterry: maybe begin transition into
[16:48] <AlbertA> mterry: server blocks until begin transition into acks
[16:49] <mterry> AlbertA, yeah, we could add a special message for 'freeze' that is part of this set of messages
[16:49] <AlbertA> mterry: and only for sessions that have registered for transition notifications
[17:28] <tvoss> AlbertA, mterry seems like waiting for the first swap buffers call after the transition has been initiated is the trigger you are looking for here
[17:30] <AlbertA> tvoss: yeah that would be more sensible, because waiting for an ack would be "dangerous" for misbehaving clients
[17:30] <tvoss> AlbertA, yup, exactly.
[17:37] <mterry> tvoss, AlbertA: I do hook into swap_buffers calls.  That's how I know a client is ready to display to the screen.  But how do I stop the client from doing anything after that point?
[17:38] <tvoss> mterry, that would require an occlusion event
[17:38] <tvoss> mterry, AlbertA something we would need to add anyway
[17:40] <AlbertA> tvoss: yep
[17:43] <mterry> tvoss, meaning we don't have that yet, OK
[17:43] <tvoss> mterry, yup
[17:48] <mterry> tvoss, occlusion being a way to tell a client it isn't actually visible on screen?  That sounds exactly the semantics of my situation indded
[17:51]  * kdub makes an argument the scene would be the best one to compute occlusion
[17:57] <tvoss> kdub, +1
[17:59] <kdub> i guess though, for max flexibility, the compositor should submit an occlusion scanner or something like that
[17:59] <tvoss> mterry, yup, I think we should implement such a fundamental feature "the right way" (tm) :) Out of curiosity: why isn't the usc process lifecycled and thus stopped by usc?
[18:00] <mterry> tvoss, you mean why isn't the greeter process lifecycled?
[18:00] <mterry> tvoss, I tried using lifecycle events for this, but they didn't do what I wanted.  Maybe because I'm still testing with mir 0.1.8
[18:00] <mterry> tvoss, but even if they did do what I wanted, I hear that the sidechannel is 'racy' in the sense that the client may still render some frames before being lifecycled
[18:01] <mterry> tvoss, and ideally this would be frame-perfect
[18:02] <tvoss> mterry, that is surely the case, but then: we expect clients receiving a lifecycle event to prepare a "final" good rendering
[18:16] <mterry> tvoss, but in this case, I'm not sure that makes sense.  That would mean having the greeter 'reset' itself to frame zero if it gets a suspend event near the beginning of its lifespan?  Seems finicky
[18:17] <mterry> or maybe just any suspend event.  I suppose we could redo the animation on screen wake too...
[18:17] <tvoss> mterry, so is that a viable option for you?
[18:20] <mterry> tvoss, I think so...?  Let me look into it
[18:20] <tvoss> mterry, ack, drop me a mail with your ideas/thoughts, so we can pick up the discussion tomorrow
[19:13] <anpok> kdub: +1 - for flexibility you could add an optional - filterfilter that resurrects false negatives..
[20:40] <kdub> i'm always very pleased when I get to do matrix stuff
[20:40] <kdub> 'all that math was worth it!' :P
[20:41] <racarr__> You mean like dodging bullets, etc?
[20:41] <racarr__> :p
[20:45] <kdub> lol
[21:13] <kgunn> interesting...i've been testing xmir w/ non-blocking swap all day...and comparing to good ol' x
[21:13] <kgunn> i don't think  x today works the way duflu says...
[21:13] <kgunn> i find plenty that still renders when occluded and screen blank even in x
[21:18] <racarr__> I agree re: occlusion
[21:19] <racarr__> thought screen off would block swap buffers in composited GLX/compiz but who knows
[21:22] <anpok> hmm .oO(X11 terrible times .. years ago when I once messed with xlib - I never managed to properly treat the expose and damage events)
[21:26] <racarr__> lol
[23:40] <RAOF> racarr__: Yo!
[23:44] <RAOF> racarr__, kgunn_: Whether or not screen off blocks GLX_swap_buffers is driver dependent!
[23:44] <RAOF> Yay!
[23:51] <racarr__> RAOF: Morning!
[23:53] <RAOF> racarr__: And a fine Easter Monday to you!


[16:52] <cherylj> frobware: if you happen to be around, I have a maas env set up for 1.25.0 (doesn't hit the problem) and 1.25.2 (hits this container problem every time) if you want to compare anything


[02:09] <luis__> Hey guys
[02:10] <luis__> I'm sure this has been said a ton. Coming from Gnome and trying to give this DE a try
[02:12] <Dienonymous> http://konversation.softbull.com/ es este el link?
[02:12] <Dienonymous> sorry
[05:35] <user|98174> how to install skype
[08:17] <kaster>  /msg nickserv info kaster
[08:26] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:56] <Darkchaos> my CTRL+Space bar has just freezed, any idea on how to recover? Kill the whole session isn't something I'd like to do^^
[09:56] <hateball> Darkchaos: do you mean that krunner has froze?
[09:57] <Darkchaos> If that's where I can just enter a partial program name and make it run then yes
[09:57] <hateball> yes, that would be it
[09:57] <Darkchaos> But the start menu and such are still alive
[09:57] <Darkchaos> so I can just kill krunner?
[09:57] <hateball> Darkchaos: open a terminal and kill krunner
[09:57] <hateball> yes
[09:57] <Darkchaos> okay perfect, thanks :)
[09:57] <hateball> it will restart itself iirc
[09:57] <hateball> otherwise just start the process
[09:59] <Darkchaos> okay, it seems my system got confused, might be related to a bit too much overclocking, since I get kernel oops (unable to handle paging request) and the terminal never returns :D
[09:59] <Darkchaos> but thanks anyway :)
[11:06] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[14:18] <marcel44> hello
[14:19] <marcel44> can somebody tell me if kubuntu 16.04.1 is easy to install bij usb created boot stick ?
[14:19] <marcel44> i have troubles starting up from the usb stick
[17:08] <user|71604> hi
[17:09] <user|71604> any one
[17:09] <user|71604> -
[17:09] <acheronuk> !ask
[17:09] <user|71604> -/-
[17:11] <user|71604> how can upgrade kde in kubuntu 16.04 to kde 5.8 ?
[17:12] <acheronuk> user|71604: plasma 5.8 is in the kubuntu backports ppa
[17:12] <acheronuk> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports
[17:14] <user|71604> this source save ?
 has been tested as much as can reasonably be done, but as with any major version upgrade a few people might find it doesn't suit thier machines or hardware. however, same can be said with each new k/ubuntu version
[18:42] <lboom> hello all setting up a vpn connection and after i get the pem files downloaded what are the next steps
[18:45] <BluesKaj> lboom, pem files?
[18:46] <lboom> the cert files that i made from the router
[18:47] <BluesKaj> setting up the vpn in the router?
[18:48] <lboom> i have the router set up to except a vpn connection ... i have exported the cert files but having issues with setting up the vpn in kubuntu
[18:50] <BluesKaj> does the vpn service recommend set up from the router rather than the nic interface on the pc?
[18:51] <BluesKaj> for example .ovpn files in /etc/openvpn
[18:53] <lboom_> i want to access my lab from home and use my bandwidth...
[18:56] <BluesKaj> so you want setup a vpn server in your lab for home vpn access
[19:07] <user|64783> Anyone here have any experience with screen tearing with Nvidia cards on Kubuntu?
[19:12] <zodiac19> at long last hello again everyone, wish i was here for pleasentries, but i have an issue
[19:13] <zodiac19> will try another server real quick as i need immediate assistance
[19:18] <BluesKaj> zodiac19,if you stated your  issue it might ger some attention
[19:18] <BluesKaj> ger=get
[19:19] <zodiac19> had dual boot settup from 2 hard drives, one windows, one kubuntu, grub installed to dualboot. I removed the linux drive to replace it with a 1tb hard drive and tried to boot up windows to which i get put into grub rescue mode, i wish to enter windows and partion my new hard drive so i can transfer my kubuntu files onto one of the two partions, any ideas?
[19:19] <zodiac19> ubuntu server suggested getting a boot usb and setting up my linux os from that on the new drive
[19:21] <zodiac19> my previous linux drive was only 120 gb, so this is an updgrade
[19:23] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, set your windows drive as the first in the boot sequence in uefi or bios
[19:24] <BluesKaj> then follow the advice given at ubuntu
[19:28] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, however your windows drive should boot if it's first in the boot sequnce if you use a BIOS, not sure about UEFI
[19:29] <zodiac19> it has always been the first, but grub loaded up linux as my main on power up unless i selcted windows manually
[19:31] <BluesKaj> yes, but is your pc a BIOS or UEFI ?
[19:32] <BluesKaj> if it's newer than 2009 then it's most likely UEFI
[19:33] <zodiac19> how would i tell from the hp computer setup screen?
[19:34] <BluesKaj> hp is probly F10 to get into the BIOS
[19:34] <zodiac19> so far i see the word bios on every tab of the settup screen if that says anything abou tit
[19:36] <BluesKaj> -then go to the boot sequence and make the windows hdd boot first after the cdrom
[19:37] <zodiac19> same issue
[19:38] <BluesKaj> use the arrow keys to navigate
[19:39] <zodiac19> I have reorganized for my windows hard drive to be first in the order, and a few other orders in case it wasnt reading it as the first drive a few different times
[19:40] <BluesKaj> ok , which "buntu are yoiu installing on the new drive?
[19:41] <zodiac19> original boot order iis PCIe/M.2 SSD Drive ; Notebook Upgrade bay ; usb cd-rom ; notebook hard drive 1 ; notebook hard drive 2 ; usb flopppy ; usb hard drive ; ethernet ; dock upgrade bay ; esatadrive
[19:41] <zodiac19> xubuntu
[19:47] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, then i suggest you join #ubuntu or #xubuntu
[20:09] <wish^> What are the main differences between kubuntu and kde neon?
[20:12] <zodiac19> yes, but you guys are more awesome, and i found a windows install disk i use for my friends who i cant convert to linux, i can now repair my boot that way, but thanks for the help!
[20:14] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, run os-prober in 'buntu terminal if you can't boot windows after installing ubuntu, the sudo update-grub
[20:14] <BluesKaj> then
[20:15] <BluesKaj> wish^, kde-neon is an edgier version of kubuntu afaik.
[20:16] <zodiac19> it just occured to me that i never tried pressing f9...
[20:30] <zodiac19> Thank you kindly BluesKaj I have repaired my computer to lone boot windows for now, i can now format my new Hard drive and begin again thanks to your help, and thus my journey begins anew!
[20:31] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, good luck :-)
[20:32] <zodiac19> *grabs leather shield and wooden sword and treks off into the dark mysterious cave for treasure, advenure, and glory for which his story may never be told*
[20:33] <BluesKaj> sounds like LOTRO
[20:34] <BluesKaj> zodiac19,^
[20:34] <zodiac19> actually i was paraphrasing a non tabletop dungeons and dragons story ending to fit my situation, give/take
[20:35] <zodiac19> sometimes stories are just as good as games
[20:35]  * BluesKaj nods
[20:36] <BluesKaj> wife plays both LOTRO and D&D...I don't game
[20:37] <zodiac19> interesting turn of events, it usually works the other way around, guess you found someone really special
[20:40] <BluesKaj> -zodiac19, we're an old retired couple ..she games and I do linux :-)
[20:41] <zodiac19> well that makes sense i guess, each of you fills your freetime mini joys with your own hobbies, and can likely do it together at that
[20:42] <BluesKaj> we have our own computers of course and maintain them ..try to keep up on things in the windows world as well
[20:46] <zodiac19> sounds like a happy life to me, wish you both well
[20:49] <BluesKaj> zodiac19, thanks
[20:49] <zodiac19> oh and godspeed!
[21:19] <starcraftman> hello, kde question. No matter what I set kmenu shortcut to, it opens when I push the windows meta key. Anyone know how I stop this?