[01:16] <junior_payne> does a kernel bug qualify as development discussion?
[01:16] <crimsun> yes
[01:16] <crimsun> (support for it, on the other hand, is a slippery slope)
[01:17] <junior_payne> getting buffer I/O errors and end_request errors on my dvd any ideas on what could cause it? it's a sata drive using the sata_nv module I belive.
[01:17] <junior_payne> example:
[01:17] <junior_payne> Jan  5 18:55:53 quantum kernel: [79454.205582] end_request: I/O error, dev sr0, sector 684956
[01:17] <junior_payne> Jan  5 18:55:53 quantum kernel: [79454.205592] Buffer I/O error on device sr0, logical block 171239
[01:18] <junior_payne> it's not drive specific either. happens on both optical drives.
[01:19] <junior_payne> I read other bug reports on similar cases but they were resolved and the workarounds didn't work for me. I was just wondering if there is some code I can look at to see if I could identify the problem.
[01:21] <TheMuso> /c/c
[09:57] <EtienneG_home> is there away to get SysRq on the console instead of syslog?  (for case when syslog is dead)
[09:57] <EtienneG_home> or does it only work with serial console?
[11:40] <Keybuk> how do I "git pull", but only up to a certain commit?
[11:50] <soren> Do you have local changes?
[11:50] <soren> I.e. will the pull involve a merge?
[11:51] <soren> Keybuk: ^
[12:24] <Keybuk> soren: no
[12:36] <Keybuk> git fetch
[12:37] <Keybuk> git reset --hard sha1
[12:37] <Keybuk> seemed to work
[12:40] <soren> Exactly what I would have done. :) If I needed to merge local changes, I think I would have had to create a new branch, do the git-reset trick there, and merge from that.
[12:40]  * soren really finds git to be a hassle.
[12:46] <Keybuk> it's just as hard to do that in bzr
[12:46] <Keybuk> so I'm not complaining ;)
[13:30] <Keybuk> anyone feeling brave?
[13:30] <Keybuk> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/20947618/udev_136%7Egit%2B34ac42b-3_source.changes
[13:30] <Keybuk> udev 136 now in my PPA :p
[14:05] <soren> Keybuk: Should we update all packages shipping udev rules to put them in /lib/udev/rules.d, then?
[14:07] <soren> Guess so.
[14:07] <Keybuk> soren: I suspect it'd be easier to update dh_installudev
[14:07] <Keybuk> but yes, in general
[14:07] <Keybuk> since the rules file format has changed slightly, all packages at least need to be checked
[14:07] <apw> they have changed the udev file format, what is with udev
[14:08] <apw> Keybuk, ok i've got a patch to add modalias love for mmc
[14:08] <Keybuk> apw: Kay's POV is that only distributors ship udev
[14:08] <Keybuk> so it's better to make improvements and fix issues than retain backwards compatibility
[14:11] <soren> Keybuk: Oh, the format changed? Are the changes listed somewhere?
[14:14] <Keybuk> NEWS file, as usual
[14:15] <Keybuk> the basic change is that things you probably tried to do before that didn't work now do
[14:15] <Keybuk> ie. NAME=="a*", NAME=="*b" is now valid
[14:15] <Keybuk> (previously it would only use one of those matches)
[14:15] <Keybuk> also NAME="foo" is no longer special cased to be non-overridable
[14:18]  * apw swears at the jaunty kernel
[14:18] <apw> seems we have some nice little dri lockup in it
[14:20] <cjwatson> anyone have a clue which device in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/314175 corresponds to the CD drive?
[14:20] <ubot3> Malone bug 314175 in debian-installer "Fujitsu U820 Hard Disk not detected by the installer" [Undecided,New]
[14:20] <rtg> apw: all of the DRI stuff is back to being modules, right?
[14:20] <cjwatson> err, sorry - the hard disk I guess
[14:20] <cjwatson> I thought it must be 8086:811a, but that module is available in the 8.10 installer unless I'm completely on crack
[14:22] <apw> rtg it was a module yes in the kernel i was testing against, 2.6.28-4
[14:22] <apw> i have booted it twice and twice had X lock up on me after about 10 mins
[14:22] <apw> second time i got to login remote and found X sleeping and repeatedly trying to ioctl the dri deive
[14:23] <apw> i guess i'd better file a bug on it
[14:25] <soren> Keybuk: Yikes. All those "Removing obsolete conffile /etc/udev/rules.d/foo" are scary :)
[14:27] <rtg> cjwatson: that ID is served by pata_sch.c --> debian/config/i386/config:CONFIG_PATA_SCH=y
[14:27] <soren> Keybuk: Do you have a list of stuff that needs to be fixed along with the udev update?
[14:31] <Keybuk> soren: nope
[14:32] <soren> Keybuk: Ok.
[14:33]  * soren makes a list
[14:33] <Keybuk> anything with /etc/udev/rules.d in its contents
[14:33] <soren> update-grub for instance, calls /sbin/vol_id, but that's gone now.
[14:33] <soren> I somehow doubt it's alone.
[14:35] <soren> Hmm... I suppose we could just (sort of) fix that now by pointing it at /lib/udev/vol_id, but its syntax (both output and arguments and such) is subject to change, isn't it?
[14:39] <Keybuk> err, did I drop /sbin/vol_id? :P
[14:39] <Keybuk> that's probably a bug :p
[14:42] <soren> Oh. :)
[14:46] <cjwatson> rtg: right, but that's present in 8.10 which the reporter is using
[14:47] <rtg> cjwatson: how can you tell that he's using Intrepid?
[14:48] <soren> rtg: cjwatson just knows.
[14:48] <soren> He's like that.
[14:50] <cjwatson> rtg: he says at the top. "This is during a netboot over internet installation of intrepid."
[14:50] <rtg> ah, he says it in lower case :)
[14:52]  * cjwatson accepts linux-backports-modules-2.6.28 binaries
[14:53] <rtg> cjwatson: pata_sch is in d-i/pata_modules. would being a net boot have any affect?
[14:56] <cjwatson> pata-modules is fetched by the installer once the network is up
[14:56] <rtg> thats what I assumed.
[14:56] <cjwatson> it's not in the initrd but otherwise it should still work perfectly well for netboot (if this didn't work, netboot wouldn't recognise *any* hard disks)
[15:05] <Keybuk> rtg: it looks like changing to CONFIG_LEGACY_PTY_COUNT=0 alone gives us ~1.6s
[15:05] <rtg> Keybuk: is there a graceful way to disable initramfs?
[15:06] <Keybuk> rtg: don't put an initrd on the grub command line?
[15:06] <rtg> Keybuk: so, you just comment out the menu.lst entry?
[15:06] <Keybuk> rtg: yeah, or press "d" at the grub boot menu
[15:09] <rtg> what about the volume ID problem? I had to specify the root as a /dev
[15:11] <cking> rtg: some insight on why root=UUID=xxxx does not work would be useful :-)
[15:11] <cking> ..I was just thinking the same thing a moment ago
[15:12] <rtg> cking: thats kind of what I'm asking. why doesn't the kernel know the volume ID by the time it attempts to mount the root device.
[15:13] <rtg> is there something in the initramfs that trigger UUID functionality?
[15:14] <cking> rtg: I just grabbed your no initramfs git tree and was going to put some debug in to see why it was failing
[15:14] <Keybuk> I don't think the kernel supports root=UUID=
[15:15] <rtg> cking: we're still building an initramfs, its just that there are fewer modules that go into it.
[15:15] <rtg> Keybuk: isn't that kind of a sticky problem?
[15:15] <cking> Keybuk: This is what I find a mystery: cat /proc/cmdline
[15:15] <cking> root=UUID=302714e7-5fcd-4db3-b0dd-c17d36bc7696 ro quiet splash
[15:15] <Keybuk> it's a SMOP
[15:16] <rtg> SMOP --> sticky problem
[15:16] <Keybuk>                 case $ROOT in
[15:16] <Keybuk>                 UUID=*)
[15:16] <Keybuk>                         ROOT="/dev/disk/by-uuid/${ROOT#UUID=}"
[15:16] <Keybuk>                         ;;
[15:16] <Keybuk> (from the initramfs init :p)
[15:16] <cking> Ahah
[15:17] <cking> No wonder why I could no see how the kernel was parsing this
[15:17] <rtg> cking: so the info is there, we just need to map it
[15:17] <Keybuk> ugh
[15:17] <Keybuk>                 /dev/nfs)
[15:17] <Keybuk>                         [ -z "${BOOT}" ] && BOOT=nfs
[15:17] <Keybuk>                         ;;
[15:18] <Keybuk> who did _THAT_ hack?!
[15:19] <mjg59> The kernel, 15 years ago
[15:19] <Keybuk> eww
[15:19] <mjg59> root=/dev/nfs was always supported
[15:21] <cking> rtg: "we just need to map it" - err.. surely not in the kernel?
[15:23]  * cking needs some strong coffee
[15:24] <rtg> cking: where else? the kernel is the only thing up at that point, assuming no initramfs.
[15:25] <cking> rtg: ..grub?
[15:27] <cking> ..but that would be really perverse
[15:27] <rtg> cking: I guess. grub has to be able to read the root device in order to boot.
[15:28] <apw> but the kernel is what makes up the notion of a uuid in the first place
[15:29] <cking> apw: err. true, but grub can do the mapping for most file systems too - I kind of think it's better to do it in the kernel though
[15:34] <rtg> cking: I agree. if you do it in grub 1, then you'll have to do it again for grub 2
[15:35] <cking> rtg: is the "if you do it" a SMOP for me? :-)
[15:35] <rtg> cking: aren't you already busy?
[15:36] <apw> actually it seems udev is responsible for the mapping, in userspace
[15:36] <cking> rtg: ..always :-)
[15:36] <rtg> apw: but udev isn't up at that point
[15:36] <cking> apw: yeah - the udev has a library that does a UUID mapping library which I coerced into grub
[15:38] <cking> s/does a/has a/
[15:41] <apw> very tricky all over
[15:41] <apw> why _is_ initramfs so damn slow
[15:42] <rtg> apw: thats rhetorical, right?
[15:43] <apw> a bit of both, half a second just for an empty one is mad
[15:43] <rtg> I suppose it takes a bit for busybox to launch
[15:43] <Keybuk> define slow
[15:44] <apw> half a second
[15:44] <Keybuk> what is half a second?
[15:44] <apw> it was quoted at UDS as something we want to stop using if at all possible
[15:44] <Keybuk> where are you starting and stopping the clock? :)
[15:44] <apw> because it has a half second overhead even if its emptry
[15:45] <apw> sadly it wasn't me, thats why i am wondering why its such a problem
[15:45] <Keybuk> for me, the time between the first and last line of initramfs (as near as damnit, anyway) is ~3.6s
[15:45] <soren> Keybuk: New udev drops me at a initramfs prompt.
[15:45] <apw> and why is it 3.6s
[15:45] <soren> Keybuk: I'm still trying to work out why.
[15:45] <Keybuk> soren: debug for me ;)
[15:45] <apw> and more how much of that would need to be done after initramfs either way
[15:45] <Keybuk> apw: 70-80% of initramfs time is spent in udev
[15:46] <apw> so we can ignore that right?
[15:46] <Keybuk> modprobe, bus scans, waiting for the root disk to show up, etc.
[15:46] <apw> as we will have to run it in real root once we get there
[15:46] <apw> if its not done already
[15:46] <Keybuk> right
[15:46] <apw> so, the real question is how much is done in there which is pointless
[15:47] <apw> i am sure it was the 5 s boot guys at plumbers who said "half a second even if it is empty"
[15:48] <soren> Keybuk: Ah, got it.
[15:48] <Keybuk> soren: missing /sbin/vol_id? :p
[15:48] <soren> Keybuk: You'd think so, wouldn't you? :)
[15:48] <soren> No cigar.
[15:49] <Keybuk> oh
[15:49] <soren> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/lvm2 does:
[15:49] <soren> cp -p /etc/udev/rules.d/85-lvm2.rules ${DESTDIR}/etc/udev/rules.d
[15:49] <apw> rtg, have you got a boot time comparison for booting without an initrd time wise?  overall from bios to login?
[15:49] <soren> At that point, there is no etc/udev/rules.d, so it's created. As a file.
[15:49] <soren> Boom.
[15:49] <rtg> apw: just anecdotal from pitti
[15:50] <rtg> shaves approc 20 seconds
[15:50] <Keybuk> soren: ah :)
[15:50]  * apw worries about all the effort UUID in the kernel would be, if nothing would be saved
[15:50] <cking> apw: I tried it today on a dell with an SSD, and saved ~8 seconds without initramfs
[15:50] <Keybuk> soren: that should be /lib/udev/rules.d of course
[15:50] <apw> cking, and any idea why it saves 8s ?
[15:50] <rtg> apw: and thats without readahead
[15:50] <soren> Keybuk: Well, yes. As a transition, the udev hook file should probable create the etc/udev/rules.d directory, though.
[15:51] <cking> apw: less modules to load I suspect.
[15:51] <apw> so you did more than add an initrd, you built extra things in?
[15:51] <apw> thats all backwards, but you get my drift
[15:51] <soren> Keybuk: Until we've fixed everything else to use /lib/udev/rules.d, this is going to blow up in our face, I think.
[15:52] <Keybuk> soren: I disagree
[15:52] <cking> apw: I took rtg's kernel https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-January/003987.html
[15:52] <Keybuk> it's far easier to find the broken things if they break
[15:52] <Keybuk> otherwise they'll just break later when we remove the transition
[15:52] <cking> apw: The BIOS is the major time waster now :-)
[15:53] <apw> so thats  comparing a stock to one with lots built in and no initrd
[15:53] <apw> so its not really an apples with apples comparison
[15:54] <Keybuk> actually
[15:54] <Keybuk> interestingly
[15:54] <Keybuk> there's no discernible difference in the kernel start time between everything built-in and everything a module
[15:55] <apw> that is conflicting information from two sources
[15:56] <Keybuk> you are free to replicate my test ;)
[15:56] <soren> Keybuk: I don't see why we'd be more willing to break and fall apart in initramfs than outside of it. Once the system is running, udev deals fine with stuff in /etc/udev/rules.d. If anything, we should be more accepting in initramfs. Failure to boot is worse.
[15:57] <Keybuk> soren: VERY few things should be installing rules into the initramfs
[15:57] <Keybuk> those that are should definitely be fixed to use /lib anyway
[15:57] <Keybuk> you'll note that udev doesn't really install any rules itself anymore
[15:58] <soren> Keybuk: YEs, I noticed.
[15:58] <cking> apw: I suggest you try the experiment yourself.. it won't take long .
[15:58] <soren> Keybuk: There is one problem, AFAICS, though.
[15:59] <soren> Keybuk: Ah, no, we can work around that.
[15:59] <Keybuk> soren: what problem?
[16:00] <soren> Keybuk: I was thinking that we'd need to make a hard, versioned dependency between lvm2 and udev, because older udev versions wouldn't work with rules in /lib/udev/rules.d, and lvm2 wouldn't allow me to boot until it's moved to lib/udev/rules.d, but I guess in the meantime we can just make lvm2 create the /etc/udev/rules.d directory in the initramfs.
[16:02] <Keybuk> actually, it will need a hard version anyway
[16:02] <Keybuk> it doesn't depend on udev at all, no? :p
[16:02] <Keybuk> which is a mistake
[16:03] <Keybuk> it inherently has the hard dep because of the split out of watershed
[16:04] <Keybuk> huh
[16:04] <apw> cking, yeah will have to do that, its all very confusing
[16:04] <Keybuk> apw: ok, weird
[16:04] <apw> Keybuk, ?
[16:04] <Keybuk> lsmod | wc -l
[16:04] <Keybuk> 67
[16:05] <Keybuk> uname -r
[16:05] <Keybuk> 2.6.28-4-generic
[16:05] <Keybuk> that's a lot more things in lsmod than I expected!
[16:05] <apw> 28-4 isn't an all builtin kernel, just a lot more built in
[16:05] <apw> sound is likely half of it
[16:06] <Keybuk> yeah, but I'm sure we talked about more of this stuff being built-in
[16:06] <cking> apw: I'd like to understand it myself as deep analysis always results in better understanding - maybe when I have a spare moment :-)
[16:06] <Keybuk> acpi_cpufreq
[16:06] <Keybuk> parport parport_pc lp
[16:06] <Keybuk> psmouse
[16:06] <Keybuk> etc.
[16:06] <apw> yep i thought those made the cut
[16:06] <apw> as my machine hangs running that one i've not spent much time looking at it
[16:07] <Keybuk> e4f65f4
[16:07] <Keybuk> is what I built
[16:08] <apw> that should do most fof it
[16:08] <apw> i don't see lp in there
[16:09] <Keybuk> ok, well it doesn't look like I fluffed the build
[16:09] <apw> yeah its much better than mine, i have 105
[16:09] <apw> (on an intrepid kernel) so something has improved
[16:21] <Keybuk> see my last two mails to kernel-team
[16:21] <Keybuk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-January/004023.html
[16:21] <Keybuk> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2009-January/004024.html
[16:29] <apw> i think legacy count was done
[16:33] <apw> interesting figures though
[16:44] <cking> Keybuk: excellent analysis.
[16:46] <Keybuk> apw: was done?
[16:47] <apw> -4 has the legacy count fixed in it right?  i think you say that in your second one
[16:47] <Keybuk> yes
[16:55] <cjwatson> Keybuk: what are you going to do in postinsts when files in /etc/udev/rules.d/ turn out to be modified?
[16:55] <Keybuk> cjwatson: leave them
[16:57] <cjwatson> oh yeah, same name overrides
[16:57] <cjwatson> as long as no bright spark changes their rule filename (e.g. number) at the same time ...
[16:58] <Keybuk> shouldn't really matter if they do


[17:46] <Zatta> Hello!
[17:46] <Zatta>  I saw an inconsistence among documentation pages on installing Ubuntu. Anyone available to discuss this topic?
[21:01] <trijntje> hi all, is it true that the 'basic-commands' documentation of kubuntu is completely different from the documentation in ubuntu? Because the kubuntu-version shows as untranslated in LP, while the ubuntu-version is fully translated
[22:01] <jamdatadude> hello, I'm in the process of going through all the required steps
[22:02] <jamdatadude> are most of the efforts focused around the beta or should I work on current ubuntu documentation


[00:24] <dog> Can someone tell me how to disable the clipboard manager please?
[00:26] <dog> I do not want it and it’s driving me crazy
[00:34] <dog> So, out of the 300+ people on here, no one can give me an answer?
[00:56] <BooNi> Hey guys
[00:56] <BooNi> Don't know if questions can be asked regarding Muon here since I didn't find it own channel
[00:57] <BooNi> But, I installed signal on Kubuntu using apt and their official source
[00:57] <BooNi> Strangely, can't locate the package Signal-desktop which is installed in either Muon nor Discovery.. but Apt does find it and can remove it. How come ?
[03:29] <kill-animals> I turned on my kubuntu today and it is going haywire
[03:29] <kill-animals> Please help.
[03:29] <kill-animals> Lag
[03:29] <kill-animals> I was charging a phone while it was in sleep mode before I turned it on today
[03:30] <kill-animals> After rebooting, twice, its still acting goofy and slow.
[03:31] <kill-animals> I dont know what is going on. The cpu levels are... ordinary but I have a few root processes going https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/MNQQWaSE/image.png
[03:34] <kill-animals>  eh it seems to have gone away
 https://i.imgur.com/cVDzTgG.jpg
 1834
[18:37] <ennozdd> why is there no send to removable device  option on dolpin? I want to be able to simply send files to usb instead  of copying and pasting into the flash drive
[18:38] <ennozdd> When I go " share -> send to device ->" it says no device found.
[19:00] <peteloaf-M> hi ennozdd just checking, when i plug in a usb stick, it appears in the Dolphin sidebar in the 'Removable Devices' section.  Is this happening for you to? If so, then you can drag and drop to it like any other folder.  Send to Device indeed does not list USB drives, at least not in my experience.
[19:07] <ciuiga> buonasera a tutti e grazie
[19:08] <ennozdd> peteloaf-M: yes it shows up as a removable device. I can copy the files and paste to the removable device, to be more specific I am not really having a problem. Iam asking if kubuntu doesn't have this feature at all. I installed  caja to check if it is dolphin specific but no caja  doesn't have that feature either on kubuntu. On ubuntu mate however send to removable device is there.
[19:09] <ennozdd> is there any way to enable this feature. It is available on almost any distribution but not on kubuntu?
[19:49] <ciuiga> buonsera
 (Photo, 522x818) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/BIpB980b/file_40007.jpg
 Are you Italian-speaking? I am.
[20:15] <ciuiga> No sorry
[20:16] <ciuiga> yes italian speaking
[20:23] <Maik> ciuiga: if needed, there are some Italian speaking ubuntu channels: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList
[20:24] <ciuiga> ircsomeboot Thanks for contacting me
[20:26] <Maik> ciuiga: that's just a bot bridged to Telegram
[20:26] <Maik> also..
[20:26] <Maik> !ask
[20:26] <Maik> and
[20:26] <Maik> !discuss
[20:27] <ciuiga> thanks for info could you tell me Maik
[20:27] <Maik> in this case #kubuntu-offtopic
[20:27] <Maik> yw
[22:16] <peteloaf-M> <ennozdd "is there any way to enable this "> this something i do not know the answer to. hoping that someone else in this forum might be able to help.


[01:39] <ScottK> I have a local bzr branch that has a number of files and directories in it.  I would like to export a single file (which has been renamed, if it matters) with the history of just that file into a new bzr repository.  Is that possible/how do I do it?
[02:17] <bob2> split, I guess
[02:17] <bob2> or bzr-rewrite
[02:17] <bob2> (or not bother, and just put the file in a new repo)
[02:19] <fullermd> split is just a shortcut to rm'ing everything else and committing.
[02:19] <fullermd> You can't move just one file's history, because there isn't any such thing.  Files don't have history; history has files.
[02:19] <fullermd> With something like rewrite, you could in concept create a new history with just that one file in it that looks a lot like the existing one; whether the tool makes that practical, I have no idea.
[02:37] <ScottK> OK, put it differently, can I rewrite the history to remove everything else?
[02:37] <ScottK> Keeping the history is important because bzr blame has saved my behind more than once already.
[03:22] <fullermd> Yeah, that's what you'd have to do; create a new history that looks pretty much like the existing history of the file.
[03:23] <fullermd> Sorta a (foreach `bzr log $FILE`; set contents ; commit with same log/committer/date) process.
[03:23] <fullermd> Which is conceptually in rewrite's domain.  Whether such a thing is actually implemented there, I don't know.
[17:56] <mnn> hi... it seems that there's a bug in bzr log
[17:57] <mnn> I merged stable branch into trunk, and the tag on the last revision in stable branch is not shown in bzr log -r <rev_with_merge> -n0
[17:57] <mnn> however when I want to add it in Bazaar Explorer, it says that the tag already exists and asks me if I want to move it
[17:58] <mnn> * I run bzr log -r <rev_with_merge> -n0 in trunk of course
[18:06] <mnn> oh no... I wasn't able to reproduce it on new branch :(
[18:14] <mnn> does anybody know what could cause this behaviour?


[09:13] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Focal 20.04.4] has been updated (20220223)
[13:52] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 Hello BluesKaj
[14:40] <BluesKaj> @ahoneybun, Hi
 Hello!
 @RikMills can I push out the 5.24.2 for 21.10 post or is that not out yet?
 Looks like it is out.
[17:29] <RikMills> it is
 Can I push it then?
[18:02] <RikMills> please do
 What about the 5.18.8 for 20.04?
 I just pushed the 5.24.2 for 21.10 post.
 The Breeze Twilight theme looks a lot like the Kubuntu one.
[18:52] <RikMills> funny that
[18:58] <Maik> is there any bug known for Discover on Jammy? It shows updates but not the size of the packages, they remain 0
[19:02] <Maik> like this which is happening now, fetched updates but shows 0 in size: https://i.imgur.com/1iLN0qc.png
[19:11] <RikMills> not had that reported
[19:13] <Maik> RikMills: i can report it on launchpad, right?
[19:13] <Maik> will do so later on if i find the time or tomorrow.
[19:31] <Eickmeyer> Maik: There's a known bug with the backend (packagekit) that we've fixed upstream that just has to make it in.
[19:31] <Eickmeyer> Maik: bug 1961837
[19:32] <Eickmeyer> That's where your troubles are. Be patient.
[19:37] <Maik> Eickmeyer: ah ok, thanks
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: That bug is what's causing the problems Maik was discussing.
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> So, yes, it was reported and is ready.
[19:41] <Eickmeyer> UNRELATED
[19:42] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: ZFS doesn't seem to be available on the Kubuntu iso. Ubiquity is already set-up to do automatic partitioning with ZFS so long as the tools are available, so is there any chance we can add the ZFS tools to the ISO?
 I think ZFS is broken for kernels 5.15.
[19:44] <RikMills> Eickmeyer: installer team did not choose to implement zfs support in the KDE front end
[19:44] <RikMills> only in the gtk one
[19:47] <Eickmeyer> RikMills: Sounds like a bug report to me.
[19:48] <Eickmeyer> @ahoneybun: Looks like that's something that will get fixed by the Canonical teams then, because that's kindof a selling point for Ubuntu these days.
 It seems an odd one but oh well. I could look at the KDE front end though it would require a lot of work.
 @ahoneybun The Foundations Team is very open to merge requests (aka don't make them do the work).
 But, this late in the game, they're going to want a bug report open first.
 I just don't use ZFS and I've already had to deal with the installer code once for Kubuntu lol
 It's not getting into 22.04 that's for sure.
 As have I. heh
 Well, with a bug report it can get in as late as Final Freeze.
 The Slideshow broke for us a while ago and needed to be fix.
 Oooof
 Yay Qt4 end of life
 \o/
 Also nice to see more folks around @Eickmeyer
[19:59] <mmikowski> hey, I'm here too ;)
 Well, I'm always around, especially since Ubuntu Studio is also using Plasma, but also because I work for mmikowski.
[20:00] <mmikowski> good to see you Aaron. I remember you and I spending quite a bit of time talking about esoteric system issues on support :)
 Well I used an Telegram tag lol
 support?
[20:01] <mmikowski> Yeah, with s76. I bought a bunch of computers from them over the years.
 Ahhh yes I am still there lol
[20:03] <mmikowski> yeah, I ran KDE over the top of Pop.
 I was looking at updating our slideshow but need more design and HTML experience lol
 Also for the demo to not be pure white lol
 I have Kubuntu 22.04 LTS at home and Pop 21.10 at work.
[20:03] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun I have tons of experience in that area.
[20:04] <mmikowski> If you want help, send over what you are doing and I can at least offer suggestions. Likely, I can cut the images, write the css3, etc.
 I think it's pure HTML right now. I'm trying to make it look like Ubuntu MATE with better style.
[20:28] <mmikowski> node + js + css + html + images (svg + raster) + design are my bag. If you want to collab on that, let me know.
[20:28] <mmikowski> happy to help out
[20:44] <valorie> wonderful to see the collaboration happening here again!
[20:44] <valorie> by here, I mean in the devel channel
[20:54] <mmikowski> @valorie thanks! @ahoneybun we could do a live session to discuss, also coud use penpot.app
 Oh for sure I would enjoy it as well
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/061a1954/file_53331.jpg
 new icons!
[21:02] <mmikowski> Are those new, or do you need new ones?
[21:03] <mmikowski> Hmm, they look pretty current...
[21:04] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun Here is the official Kate SVG from /usr/share/icons. Although honestly, it doesn't exactly scream 'text editor'.
 That's where I got the icons from.
[21:06] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun Sure. Whatever you feel is best. If you're not using SVGs, that might be a nice upgrade as they should render better. It just depends on the HTML.
 I'm wondering about highlighting KDE Connect instead.
 I'm using SVG where I can now.
[21:06] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun: I think that's a great idea
[21:06] <mmikowski> https://kfocus.org/img/appgrid/app-kdeconnect.svg
[21:07] <mmikowski> https://kfocus.org/img/appgrid/app-firefox.svg
[21:07] <mmikowski> etc, there all there.
 They are also in /usr/share/icons
[21:08] <mmikowski> yes, but those are all cleaned-up and sized. The ones in /usr/share/icons are not optimized for the web. Those are.
[21:09] <mmikowski> The ones in /usr/share/icons all use different bounding boxes that can be incompatible. So that's the added value of those, as the bounding boxes are all normalized.
[21:10] <mmikowski> IMO, the libreoffice icon is rather stark. Also, not sure about Elisa, since many people have moved to spotify or similar.
[21:10] <mmikowski> Just suggestions of course.
[21:11] <mmikowski> Maybe something more colorful for libreoffice? https://kfocus.org/img/appgrid/app-libreoffice-6.1-calc.svg
[21:12] <mmikowski> I know thats for calc, but it sure looks prettier IMO.
 That's upstream icon though not Breeze.
[21:14] <mmikowski> Sure, but perhaps another breeze icons that is more colorful. Again, that one is very black and stark IMO. Something more colorful might sell better.
[21:16] <mmikowski> The current breeze libreoffice calc, for example, is green and white, and probably would look better. Just my opinion, but it actually looks like an app to me, whereas the black icon could almost be mistaken as an error document (e.g. like a broken image link or unknown document).
[21:17] <mmikowski> Again, just suggestions to consider.
 Of course I like the feedback keep that in mind!
 It's nice to have.
 I need something sort for KDE Connect though as the others are 2 words
[21:18] <mmikowski> cool.
[21:18] <mmikowski> Yeah, the kde connect icon IIRC was one of the troublesome ones that had to be resize and rebounded to render correctly in HTML.
[21:20] <mmikowski> What do you need re 'sort for KDE connect though' - you mean a summary or something?
 2 word summary like web browser for Firefox or File Manager for Dolphin
[21:20] <mmikowski> like KDE-Connect, Connect To Your Phone sr something?
 Connection Mobile?
[21:20] <mmikowski> ah, yes
[21:20] <mmikowski> Let me see what we used ...
[21:21] <mmikowski> maybe not the best, but android-tools.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/60ba41b2/file_53332.jpg
[21:21] <mmikowski> But that is due to very limited space. You hve a LOT more breathing room here.
 It makes things off center.
 Yea
[21:22] <mmikowski> Ok, so this is where that bounding box stuff comes into play.
[21:22] <mmikowski> I can see it happening on libreoffice.
[21:23] <mmikowski> I think the KDE connect stuff looks great, actually
[21:23] <mmikowski> Maybe say 'Mobile Connect'.
[21:23] <mmikowski> Still gets the idea across, but shorter.
[21:24] <mmikowski> I recommend you try the normalized icons to see if it fixes the bounding box problem.  I can get you all the URLs to directly download if you like
[21:24] <mmikowski> Just let me know, and I'll send them to you here.
[21:25] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun you know you can browse any icon you'd like here and download. They are all normalize:
[21:25] <mmikowski> https://kfocus.org/#bkm_apps
 I can make the icons smaller.
[21:26] <mmikowski> Of course, that isn't everything, but perhaps a good starting point.
[21:29] <mmikowski> ok, well ping me if you want help. I definitely know how to make the grid work as you can see :)
 Yea I need to push to bzr/lp
 It's going here.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/30041e0c/file_53333.jpg
 I like this.
[21:34] <mmikowski> Looks better. IMO, libreoffice is still to generic and white. Also, Elisa looks antiquated IMO.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/87a7555a/file_53334.jpg
[21:35] <mmikowski> If it were me, I'd use LibreOffice Calc or any other app to get some color there (green is good)
 Better?
[21:35] <mmikowski> Replace Elisa with _anything_ :)
[21:35] <mmikowski> Kate is actually good, and it would be a good juxtaposition to libreoffice
 I need something to replace Elisa with then. I think it's fine VLC also handles local content and please do use it.
 I have local music as well
[21:41] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun I think Elisa is a great app, it's just an unfortunate icon. The style of the icon is old, and a cassette is old. It also doesn't size well. So it's a graphic design concern only.
 Spectacle?
 I love it lol
[21:42] <mmikowski> Spectacle is awesome, and something everyone wants and needs
 I'm doing it then lol
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/62d68886/file_53335.jpg
[21:50] <mmikowski> I think you need libreoffice in there. Too big of an app to miss. An office suite is a must.
 I also needed to update the Kate icon
 SO both Kate and LibreOffice?
 What about keeping Okular?
[21:51] <mmikowski> Okular is good and essential. People must be able to read PDFs IMO
 Mm then we need to lose something.
[21:52] <mmikowski> I did some sizing on your last mockup.  Most are good.
 Maybe Discover since we talk about it in the sentence?
[21:52] <mmikowski> But LibreOffice and Dolphin were oversized.
 Everything should be 64px
 I could resize to 32px then I would have more room
[21:54] <mmikowski> I think if anything, IMO kate or spectacle are optional.  Software center seems essential, especially since it is referenced above. It puts a face to it, which is good.
[21:54] <mmikowski> Let me cut you an image of the size problem ...
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/1751ecd2/file_53336.jpg
 This is what it looks like to me.
 Office suiter?
 oops
 lol
[21:59] <mmikowski> https://michaelmikowski.com/file_53334-rev.jpg
[22:00] <mmikowski> That shows the bounding box sizing issue. Regarldess of the icon, HTML gets squirrelly with img tags and SVG unless they have normalized bounding boxes.
[22:01] <mmikowski> So as you can see there, the libreoffice and dolphin icons are oversized. The others are sized correctly (I imported all normalized icons over the top to check).
[22:01] <mmikowski> The latest attachement is probably similar. While I *love* spectacle, the icon does look a bit, um, big.
[22:02] <mmikowski> let me snag that image and see how the sizing stacks up
 Mm I don't see that though Dolphin maybe is a big larger
 Do you see the source code?
[22:04] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun no, I don't see the source code unfortunately. Just a jpg image. Which obviously make this *much* harder.
[22:05] <mmikowski> ugh. Gimp just crashed :P
[22:05] <mmikowski> so just lost all my sizing work :(
 This should help: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/PTxp26xNQj/
[22:06] <mmikowski> Yeah, much better!
 \o/
[22:07] <mmikowski> What's the HTML interpreter?
 Not sure
 Webkit?
[22:07] <mmikowski> So relatively current
 This is the upstream: https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[22:09] <mmikowski> So, can we set css?
 Maybe?
 Most likely though I don't know if other projects do.
 https://packages.ubuntu.com/source/jammy/qtwebkit-opensource-src
[22:11] <mmikowski> If so, it will make the work far easier
[22:12] <mmikowski> Webkit is a good sign. The question is do we have the opportunity to set a stylesheet, since we are using just an HTML fragment here.
 I don't see any CSS.
 Not sure if they will take the changes with CSS.
[22:13] <mmikowski> Yeah, it will be somewhere else. But it *is* being set. Notice the class="main" tag near the top.
[22:13] <mmikowski> it depends if they support a cusom or extended style sheet. If they don't, then it's a non-issue.
[22:14] <mmikowski> Also, preferred if supported in this version of qt-webkit is to use a CSS grid.
[22:15] <mmikowski> Or it might be. Traditional tables are problematic for grid work like this due to veritcal positioning and sizing issues, but depending on the rendering engine, tables might be all we got :)
[22:15] <mmikowski> I guess the right answer is stick with tables until there's a good reason not to.
 Yea it may be. I think I tried adding padding but I don't think it worked.
[22:17] <mmikowski> Yeah, the rules around table sizing is so tied to legacy behaviors that it gets really ugly, really fast.
[22:17] <mmikowski> Things like 'vertical-align: baseline' etc. Ugh.
[22:17] <mmikowski> Although the good news is the text you are using is aligning veritcally (I checked).
[22:18] <mmikowski> At that is NOT a small accomplishment.
[22:19] <mmikowski> Ooh, libreoffice is no longer vertically aligned, it appears.
[22:19] <mmikowski> The icon, not the text. The text still is.
[22:20] <mmikowski> here, let me grab and render ...
[22:24] <mmikowski> still working ...
 You're good.
[22:26] <mmikowski> ooh, inkscape, gimp ...
[22:28] <mmikowski> ah, we'll see ;)
[22:32] <mmikowski> ok, so here'a snapshot that's hacked together. The libreoffice icon is not the correct version, but the sizing is all normalized and I think aligned.
[22:32] <mmikowski> It's using the standard table too, so no fancy new syntax
 Those aren't shipped on the ISO though.
[22:36] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun: I know the libreoffice icon MUST be changed. It's just there because I do not have a normalized svg for the breeze icon yet.
[22:37] <mmikowski> This is just to show sizing and alignment. Actual fonts and spacings will differ.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/a983454c/file_53338.jpg
 Better?
[22:40] <mmikowski> YES!
[22:41] <mmikowski> Here's that screen shot that's been taking me forever. Sorry, had to create the css :\
[22:43] <mmikowski> https://michaelmikowski.com/Screenshot_20220223_143902.png
[22:44] <mmikowski> The Libreoffice icon looks great.
[22:45] <mmikowski> So the sizing stuff that I keep on about, it's not the sort of thing you *see*, it's something you *feel*. If the visual weights are not the same, it feels unsettled and less professional. That was shared to me be a designer who is a master of his craft (not me!)
[22:46] <mmikowski> let me snag a snap of your latest and see how the sizing stack ups.
[22:47] <mmikowski> me thinks Gimp might sell far better than spectacle, as there is an enormous following across platforms, just like with Libreoffice.
[22:48] <mmikowski> It's a mega-app, like Blender and Inkscape.  Those are great candidates too.
[22:48] <mmikowski> IMO
[22:51] <valorie> lots of people use Gimp, true -- but it is not a KDE app
[22:51] <mmikowski> Yeah, it's true
[22:51] <mmikowski> great point
[22:52] <valorie> plus spectacle is something I use at least daily
[22:52] <mmikowski> KDEnlive also is a *super* kde app
[22:52] <valorie> true that, but how many people are working with video?
[22:52] <valorie> more and more, yes
[22:52] <valorie> but
[22:53] <mmikowski> I think we should be advocated super apps that are of the caliber to motivate peole to move platforms
[22:53] <valorie> kdenlive has come a long, long way tho
[22:53] <mmikowski> Meta-apps as we call them. These have whole ecosystems built around them cross plaform.
[22:53] <valorie> I would support kdenlive over gimp
[22:53] <mmikowski> When people see this, they get a feeling that this is a powerful OS that can handle almost anything.
[22:54] <mmikowski> So in reviewing my suggestion of spectacle, as a user I'd be far more impressed to see the following:
[22:54] <mmikowski> Gimp, Blender, LibreOffice, Inkscape, KDEnlive, etc.
[22:55] <mmikowski> Those *imply* spectacle and the others.
[22:55] <mmikowski> oh, VLC is also a meta-app
[22:55] <mmikowski> IMO
[22:55] <mmikowski> Those completely sell me.
 I can make another slide to talk about those applications as well. This slide is for the included applications.
[22:55] <mmikowski> Ooh, firefox too
[22:56] <mmikowski> Yeah, that's a great point Aaron.
[22:56] <mmikowski> I was just going to ask about the scope of this slid.
[22:56] <mmikowski> *slide
[22:57] <mmikowski> So yeah, that's a great idea IMO.  Like why Kubuntu kicks a**
 Apps in the default install/ISO
 So not gimp :P
[22:57] <mmikowski> @RikMills right. Got it.
[22:58] <mmikowski> I've got to run. @ahoneybun the sizing check shows Dolphin and LibreOffice icons are still too large. I'll send you the html in the pastebin for your review. These all use the normalized icons.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/846ae5b1/file_53339.jpg
 I haven't updated the icons but this is the new slide for additional applications that we can highlight.
[22:59] <mmikowski> https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/DtwjSP5TPG/
[22:59] <mmikowski> Something to play with
 gwenview is there, but its icon is 'odd'
[23:00] <mmikowski> kk guys, gotta run. Catch you soon!
 @RikMills where?
 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Gwenview_Icon.svg/768px-Gwenview_Icon.svg.png
 on the ISO
 Ah that one.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/dc59f59d/file_53340.jpg
 Looking better!
 Not why that's the krita icon in /usr/share/icons
[23:22] <valorie> that is looking really sharp
[23:23] <mparillo> I thought Spectacle was on the ISO, so you did not need to install it with Discover?
 No it is this slide is for additional software.
[23:24] <mmikowski> I'm back
[23:25] <mmikowski> so additional software me thinks should be the mega-apps that are not pre-installed but readily available from the repos.
 Yep they have to be in the repos.
[23:25] <RikMills> e.g. digikam etc
 HAVE to be
[23:25] <mmikowski> right
 I'm trying to find the other krita icon that it on the system when you install it.
[23:26] <mmikowski> My list is Gimp, Krita, Inkscape, Kdenlive, Blender
[23:26] <mmikowski> Audacity *used* to be a good bet :P
[23:27] <mmikowski> DigiKam, Kdevelop are good too.
 Not sure about Inkscape, GIMP and Blender as they aren't KDE stuff
[23:27] <RikMills> labplot is great for science users
 This is kinda neat: https://apps.kde.org/zanshin/
 Oh good one @RikMills !
[23:29] <RikMills> kstars is also very nice
[23:29] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun I think that Inkscape, Gimp, and Blender, while not KDE, are incredibly important for end users. They don't care about the backstory. The fact is they are immediately available and work great.
 https://apps.kde.org/skrooge/
 ?
[23:30] <RikMills> mmikowski: fair
[23:30] <mmikowski> In fact, kde has done a great job in making sure GTK apps integrate well (lots the hacking we did in 20.04 is no longer needed in 22.04 for apps integration)
[23:30] <mmikowski> So these mega apps are what bring people to the platform. If my brother asks me why should he use kubuntu, and I say 'spectacle', there's no impetus.
[23:31] <mmikowski> But if I say it runs Kdenlive and Blender super well, that's very convincing
[23:31] <mmikowski> Same with Inkscape. Heck, I designed all the SVG icons for SnapLogic using Inkscape.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/9b28e3c8/file_53344.jpg
 So far.
 Still looking for the other Krita icon
[23:32] <mmikowski> This? https://kfocus.org/img/appgrid/app-krita.svg
 I got it lol
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/32570ca6/file_53345.jpg
 That's the one that the application installs.
[23:34] <mmikowski> Hmm, that must be new for 22.04. 20.04 uses the fater paint brush.
[23:34] <mmikowski> Also, is that the new blender?
 https://twitter.com/Krita_Painting (re @ahoneybun: That's the one that the application installs.)
 It's in the system
[23:34] <mmikowski> again, 20.04 uses a "fatter" icon
 Is it the one they have there on twitter you are looking for?
 It looks like that's the official one then.
 mm
 I'm using what's from the package I guess.
[23:36] <mmikowski> So, interesting bit, I've found with the icons that many apps install variants in /usr/share/icons. So what I've done is looked them up in the menu or .desktop files to find the canonical image. You might already be doing this, but if you're not, you might be finding variants instead of what is shown in the menu.
 I think it's using the fater one
 Are we good with the selection first.
 https://invent.kde.org/graphics/krita
[23:37] <mmikowski> I'm assuming we want exactly the same svg as used in the menu, but then sized to a consistent 128x128px svg and consistent padding.
[23:38] <mmikowski> You have my input.  Mega-apps win hearts and minds :)
[23:39] <RikMills> yes, the same as seen in kicker etc. anything else is just confusing to users
 I changed it.
[23:39] <RikMills> even if the icon is fugly
[23:39] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun so yeah, looks like you found a variant. @RikMills *completely* agree.
 I think we're good on the applications then.
 https://irc-attachments.kde.org/dd8419bb/file_53346.jpg
[23:41] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun maybe two slides on the apps? Those non-kde apps are seriously compelling and run great. It's a shame not to publicize them IMO.
 I think that's a bit much though. I think we have a good mix unless I swap out Krita for Inkscape.
[23:41] <RikMills> I think we can kill the accessibility slide ;)
 Oh?
[23:42] <mmikowski> btw, I downloaded the source and can see what is involved with the HTML/CSS. I can probably tell you in a few minutes if a CSS file is an option.
[23:42] <ahoneybun> RikMills: you want to kill it?
[23:42] <RikMills> don't think it adds much as it is sort of assumed now, and is a bit odd in appearance
[23:42] <mmikowski> @RikMills yeah, kill the accessability with the "oh, you can also run these industry standard apps that have an enormous ecosystem" slide sounds great to me :)
[23:43] <RikMills> indeed
[23:44] <ahoneybun> Alright if two folks think we should have two slides I guess so. Now what to have as the text.
[23:44] <ahoneybun> Maybe the first slide with only KDE and the other with non-KDE>?
[23:44]  * RikMills is heading for sleep. sorry
[23:45] <mmikowski> @ahoneybun I think that's a *great* idea
[23:45] <mmikowski> Or certainly a great place to start
[23:45] <ahoneybun> Well get me a list again lol
[23:47] <mmikowski> Gimp, Krita, Inkscape, Kdenlive, Blender, Darktable,
[23:48] <mmikowski> There are some great commercial apps, but we probably want to steer clear of those for lots of good reasons.
[23:49] <valorie> krita is def. KDE, but it is super
[23:49] <valorie> and people use it on every platform including apple-stuff
[23:49] <valorie> their team is super
[23:49] <mmikowski> valorie: right!
[23:50] <mmikowski> The "meta-app" or "mega-app" is something where there are dozens or hundreds of how-to videos on them. Krita is *definitely* one of those.  People who are moving from Mac want to know "but will it run krita, inkscape, and gimp?"
[23:51] <mmikowski> ahoneybun: I've got the CSS for the kubuntu slide show.  My guess is it's just fine to update.
[23:52] <mmikowski> ahoneybun: is there an easy way to view the slideshow from the source package? I've got it unwrapped, but not sure what to run.
[23:52] <ahoneybun> ./test-slideshow.sh kubuntu
[23:52] <ahoneybun> though I think you need some extra packages
[23:52] <ahoneybun> well from the packaging from LP
[23:52] <mmikowski> ooh, that's too obvious ;)
[23:53] <mmikowski> ah, i'ts all there
[23:54] <mmikowski> although it doesn't appear hi-dpi friendly at all. I'm seeing less than half the slide, and the window isn't resizable.
[23:54] <ahoneybun> Yea I've been scrolling around.
[23:55] <mmikowski> But yeah, I can definitely adjust the CSS, and it is kubuntu specific
[23:55] <mmikowski> So those neat adjustments I sent you in the pastebin can go in there and you wouldn't need to copy-n-paste to every img, for example.
[23:56] <mmikowski> Plus, modification is super fast that way.
[23:59] <mmikowski> I'm tracing the window sizing ...


 Why i never connected to my original wifi network name? Lets say my original wifi network name is Pluto. I never connected to Pluto but to Pluto 1, normal?
[15:20] <n4n0cr1m3> Or do i have to worry?
[15:43] <diogenes_> n4n0cr1m3, probably tried with different password?
[15:43] <diogenes_> anyways you can fix it.
[15:43] <n4n0cr1m3> no, i have a connecton
[15:43] <n4n0cr1m3> its not that something doesnt work
[15:44] <n4n0cr1m3> i just want know what does that mean
[15:44] <n4n0cr1m3> pluto and pluto 1 have the same pw
[15:44] <n4n0cr1m3> i never set up a pluto 1
[15:45] <n4n0cr1m3> and if i want to connect to pluto
[15:46] <diogenes_> i understand, that is normal, you maybe tried to connect to pluto with built in wifi adaptor and then with a usb adaptor.
[15:46] <n4n0cr1m3> ahhhhhhhhhhhh
[15:46] <n4n0cr1m3> thanks alot
[15:46] <n4n0cr1m3> now i understand what is happened
[15:47] <diogenes_> yep
[15:47] <n4n0cr1m3> again thx. and have a nice weekend
[15:47] <diogenes_> thx you too.
[16:22] <xu-irc79w> hi, im trying to install vmware workstation, and have downloaded the .bundle file from website but cant install it. Can someone help? :]
[16:26] <diogenes_> xu-irc79w, probably just make it executable and double click.
[16:30] <xu-irc79w> did not work with dubble click but did manage to start it from terminal , thanks anyway. :)
[18:30] <gnoob> Hello, was looking for some guidance.  I used windows to create an ~20GB partion onto my NVME.  I tried to install xubuntu using the "something else" option.  I created a 10GB /   a 4GB Swap and the rest went to /home.  However, when I open thunar the drive says "2.1GB of 9.1GB free".  Where is the other space?  Obviously 4GB of the 20 went to swap.
[18:35] <diogenes_> gnoob, df ih
[18:35] <diogenes_> sorry: df -h
[18:35] <gnoob> post here or to somewhere like pastbin?
[18:36] <diogenes_> !pastebin
[18:38] <gnoob> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/NKrDwc96Q7/  and shoot, I need to step away for just a couple minutes.  Sorry..
[18:47] <diogenes_> gnoob, that's correct, if you open the file system dir, it will tell you "2.1GB of 9.1GB free", if you open home/yourusername, it will tell you "6.7G of 7.3G free"
[18:59] <gnoob> diogenes_: OK, was just a bit confused.  I went to the "/home" right clicked my username and properties says "6.6 of 7.2 GiB free..."
[19:00] <gnoob> do new programs and whatnot go to root or / ?
[19:00] <gnoob> and thanks for the help...
[19:01] <diogenes_> yep to /
[19:02] <gnoob> Ok, so I might look into how to move a bit more space to that.
[19:04] <diogenes_> gnoob, create free space from windows then boot off a usb and use gparted.
[19:05] <gnoob> can I just distribute some of the 7.3 from /home to /  ?
[19:07] <diogenes_> yes but boot from usb.
[19:11] <gnoob> great, appreciate the help.  I will try that a bit later.  thanks.
[19:13] <diogenes_> no problem.
[23:27] <manny_> qatracker test message - impish daily


[05:14] <alkisg> highvoltage: http://www.edubuntu.org/news/14.04-release => "please read the full release notes" => https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes
[05:14] <alkisg> Points to 12.04 instead of 14.04