[00:08] <d_ed> project-neon shouldn't be installing libraries into /usr/lib should it?
[00:09]  * d_ed pauses for the inevitable "no of course not"
[00:09] <d_ed> all -dbg libraries do
[00:19] <Riddell> hi koolhead17
[00:19] <Riddell> d_ed: nudge yofel_ about that I think
[00:20] <d_ed> yofel_: consider yourself nudged.
[00:21]  * d_ed nudges shadeslayer too for the sake of it.
[00:23] <Riddell> shadeslayer: did you look at message indicator for kde-telepathy?
[00:23] <Riddell> or do you hope to?
[00:29] <Riddell> ping rbelem_
[00:48] <Riddell> afiestas_: kde dinner tonight?
[00:48] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: ?
[00:48] <afiestas_> Riddell: yes !
[00:51] <afiestas_> rbelem_: ?
[00:51] <rbelem_> afiestas_, heya
[00:52] <rbelem_> afiestas_, you have to use your quassel-core
[00:52] <afiestas_> rbelem_: you have to show me how
[00:52] <afiestas> afiestas_: hello ;-)
[00:52] <Riddell> rbelem_: dinner tonight?
[00:52] <afiestas_> rbelem_: that's scary xD
[00:52] <rbelem_> Riddell, sure :-)
[00:52] <rbelem_> hahaha!
[00:53] <afiestas> afiestas_: i love you dude
[00:53] <afiestas> afiestas_: you love me?
[00:53] <afiestas_> afiestas: ya dude!
[00:54] <afiestas> afiestas_: that's because you are me
[00:54] <afiestas_> afiestas: you are me
[00:54] <afiestas> :-D
[00:55] <rbelem_> afiestas_, i'm closer to granball rooms
[00:55] <rbelem_> afiestas_, come here
[00:55] <rbelem_> :-)
[00:56] <rbelem_> afiestas_, where r u?
[00:56] <afiestas_> rbelem_: let's do it after dinner
[00:56] <rbelem_> afiestas_, oki
[00:59] <claydoh> I miss you folks, hope you are all having a great uds!
[01:00] <Riddell> claydoh: still time to cycle over here
[01:00] <claydoh> Riddell: gotta work in about 6 bhours, I think I have time :D
[01:07] <Riddell> afiestas_, DarkwingUDS, rbelem_: 18:30ish at the bottom of the escalators
[01:10] <afiestas_> Riddell: roger
[01:12] <Riddell> ooh there's internet by the swimming pool
[01:13] <rbelem_> Riddell, hotel internet?
[01:14] <rbelem_> afiestas_, who is roger?
[01:14] <afiestas_> rbelem_: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=roger%20that
[01:16] <rbelem_> afiestas_, :-D
[04:14] <Riddell> afiestas_: beer?
[04:14] <afiestas_> Riddell: yep, we got a couple of bottles
[04:14] <Riddell> where are you
[04:15] <afiestas_> room right now doing some hacking (about to xD)
[04:15] <Riddell> Whee
[04:15] <Riddell> whAt  room
[04:15] <maco> now dont you drink too much
[04:16] <Riddell> its my lasr day with canonical
[04:16] <Riddell> wd
[04:17] <maco> yes, but i remember last uds
[04:17] <Riddell> hmm good ponti
[04:18] <afiestas_> Riddell: 1011 !
[04:18] <Riddell> wouldnt want to put off all the ladies im sharingq with
[05:06] <rbelem_> DarkwingUDS, ping
[05:42] <eagles0513875_> hey guys i found a serious bug in the kubuntu-plasma netbook shell. I have a back trace here http://pastebin.com/G7YN70Yk. i asked in kde and they said it was kubuntu specific. Can anyone help me fix this issue. this issue has been occuring since RC of 12.04 with kde  4.8.2 as well as 4.8.3
[05:50] <eagles0513875_> morning micahg
[05:51] <micahg> hi eagles0513875_
[05:52] <eagles0513875_> micahg: i need some help resolving an issue with kde plasma netbook shell. this crash occurs both on 12.04 and 12.10 and affects kde 4.8.2 and 4.8.3 back trace here http://pastebin.com/G7YN70Yk
[05:52] <eagles0513875_> i had asked in the kde channel thinking it was an upstream kde but but was redirected back to the downstream channels
[05:53] <micahg> eagles0513875_: sorry, don't know much about Qt
[05:53] <eagles0513875_> micahg: who would you recommend i talk to cuz this is a very serious issue especially if i am seeing this in both 12.10 and 12.04 :(
[05:54] <micahg> eagles0513875_: Riddell, agateau, or debfx
[05:54] <eagles0513875_> micahg: im guessing they are all at UDS?
[05:54] <micahg> idk
[06:05] <eagles0513875_> hey Riddell  agateau  and debfx i am getting a plasma netbook shell crash backtrace is here http://pastebin.com/G7YN70Yk this occures in 12.04 and 12.10 with kde 4.8.2 and 4.8.3 would be greatly appreciated if you could help me possibly fix this issue and push it as a pack port to 12.04
[11:27] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[11:38] <koolhead17> hi
[11:41] <BluesKaj> hi koolhead17
[12:28] <apachelogger> there we are
[12:28] <apachelogger> I have returned.
[12:28] <apachelogger> ^^
[12:28] <yofel_> d_ed: the debugging symbols are installed in /usr/lib/debug/<root_fs_layout> by convention. so you get /usr/lib/debug/opt/project-neon/* paths for neon debug symbols
[12:29] <yofel_> we would need to redirect GDB search paths if we change that, and currently there are no conflicts so I don't see the point
[12:29] <d_ed> oh, ok then.
[12:29] <d_ed> yofel_: I was just on a grep for something, and then it stood out as looking like someone had missed a leading '/' or something.
[12:30] <d_ed> yofel_: good to know it's all fine
[12:30] <apachelogger> where is kubotu Oo
[12:30] <yofel_> apachelogger: that's what we were wondering a few weeks ago
[12:31] <apachelogger> magic
[12:31] <apachelogger> ...
[12:31] <yofel> went missing about a week before release I think
[12:31] <apachelogger> .......
[12:31] <apachelogger> .............
[12:31] <apachelogger> voila
[12:31] <apachelogger> kubotu: hi
[12:31] <yofel> \o/
[12:31]  * yofel gives kubotu a hug
[12:31]  * apachelogger fails to use byobu key bindings and kills ssh
[12:32] <kubotu> sup, apachelogger
[12:32] <apachelogger> should have started screen ... brrrr
[12:32] <apachelogger> yofel: thanks for integrating the splash crap
[12:32] <apachelogger> yofel: any issues with that?
[12:33] <apachelogger> oh
[12:33] <yofel> not really, someone complained about the gear being not perfectly round though - and nobody of us has the picture sources
[12:33] <apachelogger> amarok crash in pgst
[12:33] <apachelogger> how rude
[12:33] <apachelogger> yofel: the svgz is in the same dir :P
[12:33]  * yofel fires up kmail and makes coffee while it starts
[12:33] <apachelogger> and yes the gear is not round
[12:33] <apachelogger> the right bottom part is somewhat closer to the center
[12:38] <apachelogger> crash in plasma
[12:38] <apachelogger> Oo
[12:38] <apachelogger> I should stop using this system
[12:41] <apachelogger> any sensible reviews on precise yet?
[12:43] <yofel> Ezim posted one 1-2 days ago here, neither good nor bad
[12:44] <apachelogger> http://linuxblog.darkduck.com/2012/05/13-surprises-from-kubuntu-1204.html that one?
[12:44] <apachelogger> cuz that is not a sensible review, he never managed to make a sensible review
[12:45] <apachelogger> starts with him testing things from the live envrionment ;)
[12:45] <apachelogger> which leads to utterly meaningless things like
[12:45] <apachelogger> " I would say that it was 80-20 proportion. Kubuntu's proportions are 60-40, so total waiting time for Kubuntu Live boot is more than for Ubuntu. I can say this is surprise #2. "
[12:46] <apachelogger> there is many a great ways to make that faster
[12:46] <apachelogger> more importantly so for first login after install
[12:47] <apachelogger> (e.g. global ksycoca created by ubuiquity as part of the post install process)
[12:47] <apachelogger> actually that is a main blocker there
[12:47] <yofel> yeah, the icon cache generation takes ages IIRC
[12:47] <apachelogger> IIRC building the initial sycoca is 100% blocking to all the login
[12:48] <apachelogger> icon cache is created on teh fly I think
[12:48] <apachelogger> however the lack of a cache would make icon loading slow
[12:48] <apachelogger> what I never got is why those things are not cascaded
[12:49] <apachelogger> I mean... gtk has a global icon cache
[12:49] <apachelogger> then you just add a local (user) icon cache that contains icons found in $home
[13:14] <apachelogger> bulldog98_: ping
[13:14] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ping
[13:14] <apachelogger> yofel: ping
[13:14] <yofel> hm?
[13:15] <apachelogger> yofel: do you have a bug for the splash issue?
[13:17] <yofel> apachelogger: bug 981898
[13:17] <apachelogger> cheers
[13:17] <apachelogger> "recreated"
[13:17] <apachelogger> zomg
[13:19]  * yofel gone for a while
[13:20] <apachelogger> that attached tar seems fine-ish
[13:20] <apachelogger> somehow the borders look stronger
[13:20] <apachelogger> hmmm
[13:20]  * apachelogger puts on todo
[13:21] <apachelogger> Riddell: FWIW the blueprint links are pointing to notes.kde rather than whatever the ubuntu thing is
[13:22] <apachelogger> sven423: did you solve the layout issue yet?
[13:22] <apachelogger> kubotu: order coffee
[13:22]  * kubotu slides coffee with milk down the bar to apachelogger.
[13:22] <sven423> apachelogger: "maybe"
[13:22] <apachelogger> sven423: lol? ^^
[13:23] <sven423> apachelogger: well, I cannot directly reproduce your problem, but I think I improved the situtation. already checked into git
[13:24] <apachelogger> sven423: you just need to resize the window
[13:24] <apachelogger> the problem of it being by default smaller than what it should be is just a funny coincident
[13:24] <apachelogger> (supposedly because of my font actually)
[13:25] <sven423> apachelogger: the patch contains something like that
[13:25] <sven423> jsut try it ;)
[13:26] <apachelogger> hm
[13:26] <apachelogger> no
[13:26] <apachelogger> buildin amarok takes too long :P
[13:26] <sven423> :P
[13:26] <apachelogger> when you fix build times I'll test it :P
[13:26] <apachelogger> projects.kde looks... different
[13:26]  * sven423 is about to add more unit tests to increase build time ;)
[13:27] <apachelogger> hm
[13:27] <apachelogger> sven423: diffy looks fine actually
[13:28] <apachelogger> good thing you use designer ^^
[13:28]  * ScottK looks up and sees apachelogger.
[13:28] <ScottK> How about that.
[13:28] <apachelogger> sven423: yah, it's fixed
[13:29] <apachelogger> ScottK: \o/
[13:29] <sven423> ^^
[13:29] <apachelogger> sven423: now you just need to make it not pop up on first start ;)
[13:30] <apachelogger> Stabilizing KMix for asynchronous backends (Pulseaudio, MPRIS2), by using shared pointer constructs, Part 1 (MixDevice class).
[13:30] <apachelogger> oh gawd
[13:39] <apachelogger> http://i.imgur.com/dxlmX.png looks terrible
[13:49] <agateau> apachelogger: indeed, stretching the light blue background to fill the whole header would be much nicer
[13:50] <apachelogger> *nod*
[13:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: who made that artwork?
[14:34] <apachelogger> oh
[14:34] <apachelogger> ubuntu wants to make the initramfs bigger
[14:34] <apachelogger> Oo
[14:34] <apachelogger> and here I was thinking it was already fat enough
[14:35] <apachelogger> -rw-r--r--  1 root root  20M Apr 25 16:28 initrd.img-3.2.0-23-generic
[14:37] <tsimpson> my 3.0.x ones on oneiric are 19M, which reminds me.. I must clear out old kernels
[14:41] <apachelogger> yeah, the bump mostly comes from the splash background
[14:45] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (4 files in 2 dirs) Make new splash logo artwork form a proper (round) circle (LP: #981898)
[14:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: the artwork came from starbuck or someone he knows, it doesn't fit but then the website is hard to edit and I seem to have agreement to move the website to an outside server so we don't have the hassle of going through canonical is in future
[14:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: if you see starbuck please ask him for a version with proper dimension
[14:50] <apachelogger> doesn't make much difference whether we overlay half the background or all of it (except from an attractiveness pov :))
[14:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: also moving the website elsewhere seems like a super good idea
[14:51]  * apachelogger moves the kubuntu text splash out of plymouth and into kds
[14:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/kubuntu-wallpaper-v1c.jpg
[14:52] <apachelogger> ah
[14:52] <Riddell> but anything bigger is likely to screw up the layout of the page
[14:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: how so?
[14:53] <Riddell> dunno but that is what has happened before when I tried to put anything bigger than that image size on it
[14:54]  * apachelogger looks
[15:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: where is that image set anyway?
[15:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: how do you mean?
[15:13] <apachelogger> where would I change the image
[15:13] <Riddell> that one is part of the content of the page which can be edited
[15:13] <Riddell> the background one is part of the content of the template which can not
[15:14] <Riddell> go to admin->something setup to find out the path to the Front Page then go to /node/zzz to be able to edit it
[15:15] <apachelogger> kthx
[15:15] <Riddell> or just give up on it as I have and start on improving the template so if/when we move to a new web server we have something better
[15:16] <apachelogger> hehe
[15:16] <apachelogger> wordpress > drupal anyway :P
[15:17] <Riddell> I tend to go for blogs better in wordpress and static content sites bettern in drupal but that's pretty simplistic I know
[15:17] <koolhead17> no drupal plZz
[15:17] <Riddell> also my personal blog got hacked when I changed it to wordpress so that put me off it
[15:17] <apachelogger> spooky
[15:18] <Riddell> koolhead17: too late we've been using it for years
[15:18] <koolhead17> ooh is it
[15:18]  * koolhead17 is scared of  drupal
[15:19] <Riddell> at cebit the drupal stand was about 10 times larger than the kde stand and the people there was about 10 times better looking
[15:19] <Riddell> so they must be doing something right
[15:20] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:20] <apachelogger> there is a <br> and no indication where it is from
[15:20] <apachelogger> why use br anyway
[15:20]  * apachelogger gets all freaked out from random br :P
[15:20] <Riddell> from the page content no?
[15:20] <apachelogger> nah
[15:21] <apachelogger> might be that the page content is broken and the browser inserts the br to make sense of it ^^
[15:21] <Riddell> browsers can do that?  now that's spooky
[15:22] <apachelogger> they have to or half the intarwebs could not be displayed ^^
[15:23] <apachelogger> apparently a unclearified <center> introduces it
[15:23] <apachelogger> then again I do not exactly know what center is meant to do ^^
[15:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://www.kubuntu.org/
 was dropped in HTML 4... it's really really old
[15:24] <d_ed> it makes things centre aligned :)
[15:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: !
[15:24] <apachelogger> ^^
[15:24] <Blizzzek> apachelogger: center is "i have no idea of CSS but still want things to appear in the middle of the page or whereever"
[15:24] <yofel> apachelogger: better
[15:24] <snele> Riddell: that wallpaper rocks! True KDE and Kubuntu colors! Not grey as we have now
[15:24] <apachelogger> but where is that pixel row at the bottom coming from
[15:24] <apachelogger> brrrr
[15:24] <apachelogger> how I hate web markup
[15:25] <apachelogger> oh
[15:25] <apachelogger> why this is sily now
[15:25] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: have you seen jos' latest anti-canonical rant?
[15:26] <apachelogger> the div container is 946x231 the actual image is 944x230 and set to repeat
[15:26] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: weird comment " I did express my wish that more distro's would jump on Apper/PackageKit - of course Kubuntu and Chakra would be first on that list I suppose. Kubuntu works a lot on their Ubuntu-only 'app-store' and I'd much rather see some of that energy go into a cross-distro effort."
[15:28] <apachelogger> someone come up with a anti-crosspkgmgr rant
[15:28] <apachelogger> better yet, someone mock the concept of having different software to do absolutely and entirely the same thing
[15:28] <Riddell> ah apol already on the jos case
[15:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://www.kubuntu.org/ pixel perfect
[15:38] <apachelogger> also I ripped the background out -> faster loading
[15:39] <apachelogger> Mamarok: btw, kde bug 299377 WFM
[15:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: "We decided it's better to have a package manager that's design for our packaging system rather than use one designed for RPM with Debian package support bolted on".
[15:40] <ScottK> How's that?
[15:41] <apachelogger> that calls for a counter argument :)
[15:41] <claydoh> ScottK: perfect
[15:42] <ScottK> design/designed
[15:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: The only possible counter-argument is that the bolting on is good enough and we already tried it and decided it wasn't.
[15:44] <apachelogger> more like "so we need to fix the design, which we cannot do if you don't jump on the bandwaggon"
[15:45] <ScottK> Debian packaging and RPM differ in some fundamental ways.
[15:45] <ScottK> So if you rewrote packagekit to be Debian packaging friendly, you'd have something like what we already have.
[15:47] <ScottK> I think dantti did a great job with kpackagekit/apper of doing the best one could do, but IIRC there was a need to do things like doing simulated installs to find if additional packages needed to be pulled in.
[15:48] <ScottK> For the first time I think we've finally got a GUI package manager in Kubuntu that's in all respects better than what we had in KDE3 days (Adept).
[15:48] <ScottK> Why would be change now?
[15:49] <ScottK> What would be best is if JontheEchidna finished getting Muon into Debian so we could have a common "K" GUI for Debian and derivatives.
[15:51] <apol> Riddell: :)
[15:52] <apol> ScottK, Riddell: well, it depends a lot, if you just want a software center, then it's not so hard to separe from the package management technoclogy
[15:53] <ScottK> Right, but we're talking about the entire GUI package management stack.
[15:53] <apol> in any case, I think this jos post is one of those made from the distance with a pipe and a monocle
[15:54] <apol> ScottK: well I still don't understand why we need a complete gui package management stack :)
[15:54]  * apachelogger expects a software center to be snappy, not take ages because it has to simulate package resolution to find missing deps ;)
[15:55] <ScottK> apol: People that want to install specific packages should have to use command line?
[15:55] <apachelogger> apol: because reviewers don't grasp the difference between a desktop application and a package ^^
[15:55] <apachelogger> e.g. I have seen >3 reviews that complained muon software center cannot find kubuntu-low-fat
[15:57] <yofel> anyone need quantal in a consistent state? Otherwise I'll go and upload 4.8.3
[15:57] <apachelogger> break it
[15:57] <yofel> ack
[15:59] <koolhead17> yofel, hola
[16:00] <yofel> now where's mgraesslin when you need him... or does someone get what's wrong in bug 997625 / kde bug 299685 ?
[16:00] <yofel> hi koolhead17
[16:01] <apachelogger> eh
[16:01] <apachelogger> yofel: user installed gles kwin
[16:02] <apol> apachelogger: would we want kubuntu-low-fat on the software center?
[16:02] <apachelogger> apol: no
[16:02] <apachelogger> or I do not ... hence I did not put a desktop file in it ;)
[16:02] <apol> :P
[16:03] <apol> then i don't understand your point xD
[16:03] <yofel> apachelogger: just *installing* it shouldn't mean it's being used. Or I'm misunderstanding how gles support is implemented in kwin
[16:03] <apachelogger> sec
[16:03] <apol> ScottK: I think that if the user is savvy enough to care about having a specific package, he should be able to use a command line, probably
[16:03] <apol> ScottK: or krunner instead
[16:03] <Riddell> ScottK: better would be "we go with whatever bit of KDE Software gives a best experience, when we last looked it was Muon, ignoring good KDE Software seems contrary to what you want"
[16:04] <Riddell> apol: that's not the case
[16:04] <DarkwingUDS> rbelem_: pong
[16:04] <Riddell> I know plenty people who care about packages but don't use a command line
[16:04] <ScottK> Riddell: Perhaps, but it's better for us in large part because it's designed to support Debian based systems.
[16:04] <apachelogger> yofel: well
[16:04] <apachelogger> yofel: it does for the kcm anyway
[16:04] <apachelogger> and that crash is in the KCM it seems
[16:05] <yofel> hm, ok, might make sense
[16:05]  * yofel looks what he commited to master there
[16:05] <apachelogger> or not
[16:05] <apachelogger> curious
[16:05] <DarkwingUDS> Morning guys
[16:06] <yofel> morning DarkwingUDS
[16:06] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: where you at this morning?
[16:07] <apol> btw. how's UDS coming along?
[16:07] <apol> any interesting news? :P
[16:08] <yofel> *blink*
[16:08] <apachelogger> yofel: do you have the debug version of kcm_kwincompositing.so installed?
[16:08] <yofel> apachelogger: he dropped the whole opengl check from there? https://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/104752/diff/#index_header
[16:08] <DarkwingUDS> a bit... Tomorrow I will be putting everything that related to us in review and get it out to the ML and my blog
[16:09] <yofel> apachelogger: I do, but I have no hardware that i could run fglrx on
[16:09] <apachelogger> well
[16:09] <apachelogger> it works here and I am on fglrx...
[16:09] <apachelogger> yofel: run nm on it
[16:09] <apachelogger> and check if it has deleteEGLContext
[16:09] <apachelogger> if not then he is not using our kcm
[16:10] <yofel> good point
[16:10] <apachelogger> or we screwed up and package the gles build version of the dbg symbols ^^
[16:10] <apachelogger> many options here
[16:11] <davmor2> hey guys what tools do you use for automation of tests, is it just testibility or is there something else?
[16:12] <apachelogger> none, what kind of tests?
[16:12] <yofel> apachelogger: well, it doesn't, but deleteEGLContext is protected, not public
[16:13] <apachelogger> yeah bu tit is called by detect :P
[16:14] <yofel> that still shouldn't make it show in nm, no?
[16:14] <apachelogger> ah, it shows up
[16:14] <apachelogger> every symbol shows up in nm
[16:14] <apachelogger> no matter what language constraints it has
[16:14] <apachelogger> so
[16:14] <apachelogger> my immediate guess is that we package the wrong dbg symbols
[16:14] <bulldog98_> apachelogger: pong
[16:15] <apachelogger> bulldog98_: ubiquity qml?
[16:15] <yofel> well, we do weird stuff with kde-workspace
[16:15]  * yofel looks at rules
[16:15] <bulldog98_> hm I don’t have much time this semester (40 ects) and I want to wait for QtQuick 2.0
[16:16] <apachelogger> hm
[16:16] <apachelogger> bulldog98_: why QQ2?
[16:16] <apachelogger> yofel: oho
[16:16] <apachelogger> yofel: seems master martin made it so that one does not need to do two builds
[16:16] <bulldog98_> apachelogger: hm I want to know what nice stuff is in there and if it can help us
[16:16] <apachelogger> I don't see anything gles in the workspace rules
[16:17] <yofel> apachelogger: yeah (which we still do, but for active)
[16:17] <yofel> gles shouldn't break, that's why I'm confused about the bug
[16:17] <apachelogger> well nono
[16:17] <apachelogger> that makes sense
[16:17] <apachelogger> if he made it so that both gl and gles are built at the same time
[16:18] <apachelogger> then of course all necessary functionality would be in the KCM
[16:18] <apachelogger> hence the symbol
[16:18] <yofel> how are you calling nm so that deleteEGLContext() shows up btw.?
[16:18] <apachelogger> BUT
[16:18] <apachelogger> it should not be used
[16:18] <apachelogger> nm foo.so |grep deleteEGL
[16:19] <yofel> ah, I guess strip breaks that
[16:19] <apachelogger> well, yes, that is why I told you to look at the debug so ^^
[16:20] <apachelogger> smart me was thinking of the stripping ;)
[16:20] <yofel> ah well, 3 coffees are obviously not enough yet for me today -.-
[16:21] <apachelogger> that reminds me
[16:21] <apachelogger> HUNGRY
[16:23] <apachelogger> I do not see that function in master
[16:23] <apachelogger> I be blind
[16:24] <apachelogger> yofel: ok
[16:25] <apachelogger> that is a bug on martin's side
[16:25] <apachelogger> #ifdef KWIN_HAVE_OPENGLES
[16:25] <apachelogger> then the code that leads to crash
[16:25] <apachelogger> what distrubes me though is this
[16:25] <apachelogger>     if (!haveContext) {
[16:25] <apachelogger>         deleteEGLContext();
[16:25] <apachelogger>     }
[16:25] <yofel> ^^
[16:25] <apachelogger> now either that function name is crap or that ! doesn't belong there
[16:26] <apachelogger> either way not a packaging issue
[16:29] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: hi
[16:29] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: Good Morning. :)
[16:29] <Riddell> in the foyer but the linux magazine stand
[16:29] <Riddell> by
[16:29] <maco> i have a bug for precise
[16:30] <Riddell> only one?  you're lucky!
[16:30] <maco> no wait i mean oneiric
[16:30] <maco> if you click the gear with the arrow for updates, and the update it wants to do is the move to precise, and you dont want to do that because your version of vmware isnt supported in precise, so you hit "cancel"... the dist upgrade fetcher crashes
[16:31] <apachelogger> what piece of software is that anyway
[16:31] <Riddell> ScottK: "it's designed to support Debian based systems" that's not the answer jos wants
[16:31] <ScottK> Riddell: I'm sure it's not.
[16:32] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: I'll be down there is a bit.
[16:33] <ScottK> Muon is the first GUI pacakge manager I've used on Kubuntu that was not painfully slow.
[16:33] <Riddell> ScottK: a better point to make to him would be "jos: Yast, like many other tools, was meant to be cross-distro" "grumpy reply: it was licenced for many years so explicitly forbid that, don't lie"
[16:33] <Riddell> but that owuld be grumpy :)
[16:33] <DarkwingUDS> Muon is the first GUI package manager that I have ever wanted to use.
[16:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: I envision a GTKvQt reply
[16:34] <ScottK> Riddell: There ought to be an accurate, yet non-grumpy way to say that.
[16:34] <apachelogger> the plymouth package is utter rubbish
[16:35] <apachelogger> debian/patches/kubuntu-text.patch
[16:36] <apachelogger> I don't even get why you need a patch with UDD
[16:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think that indicates a problem in UDD rather than in plymouth packaging
[16:37] <apachelogger> Riddell, DarkwingUDS: if you see slangasek plz be telling him that he should drop kubuntu-text from the plymouth branch
[16:37] <apachelogger> I am so not going near that thing
[16:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: won't that stop our text theme?
[16:37] <DarkwingUDS> apachelogger: +1
[16:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: importing it into kds
[16:37] <apachelogger> the text stuff is templated based now, we only need the template
[16:38] <apachelogger> s/templated/config I suppose
[16:41] <CIA-42> [kubuntu-default-settings] Harald Sitter<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* (9 files in 3 dirs) * Import plymouth-theme-kubuntu-text from plymouth source package. Since plymouth has no epoch this is a no-brainer. * Change plymouth-theme-kubuntu-text from arch any to all (only contains a config, but no binary data)
[16:56] <Riddell> rbelem_ the centre of attention as always https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tgC-1yQlqLw/T6n-G_4P9rI/AAAAAAAAF1A/yD87E4bUUho/s903/SAM_1605.JPG
[16:59] <Riddell> uh oh, we might have competition! https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-q-gnome-flavor
[16:59] <apachelogger> lol
[17:00] <apachelogger> https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/+recipe/oxygen-fonts-daily
[17:03] <Riddell> apachelogger: hmm large exclamation mark on that page
[17:06] <apachelogger> no idea why packagers cant upload to our ppas
[17:06] <apachelogger> manual triggering works ;)
[17:06] <apachelogger> as long as the person has upload rights
[17:06] <apachelogger> anywhos
[17:06] <apachelogger> lunch
[17:13] <Riddell> koolhead17: I have the t-shirt in my bag, ask for it when you see me
[17:14] <koolhead17> Riddell, great. where ru currently?
[17:15] <yofel> huh, hibernate was turned off by default in precise o.O
[17:16] <Riddell> koolhead17: release notes session 201
[17:16] <koolhead17> k
[17:16] <Riddell> yofel: how do you mean?
[17:16] <koolhead17> yofel, whats the work around :P
[17:17] <Riddell> koolhead17: use suspend
[17:17] <koolhead17> umm. k
[17:17] <yofel> bug 989652 / bug 812394
[17:18] <yofel> now if plasma would actually make the options match with what upower reports...
[17:18] <yofel> wouldn't help with policykit though I guess
[17:20] <yofel> I see 3 things we could do:
[17:20] <yofel> 1) patch the hibernate option ot of kickoff (and wherever else)
[17:20] <yofel> 2) ship a policykit file to enable it by default
[17:20] <yofel> 3) leave it not working and close bug as Won't Fix
[17:20] <yofel> *out of
[17:21] <d_ed> Riddell: do you have this image: http://people.canonical.com/~jriddell/tmp/kubuntu-wallpaper-v1c.jpg in layers (i.e without the logo) ?
[17:21] <maco> ooh i like that wallpaper
[17:22] <d_ed> me too
[17:22] <Riddell> d_ed: not me, ask starbuck
[17:23] <maco> Riddell: is that nessy or a dragon?
[17:23] <Riddell> yofel: I'd go for 1) since I tend to agree that hibernate has no practical use
[17:24] <Riddell> maco: I think it's a pangolin
[17:25] <maco> very skinny pangolin
[17:25] <maco> im going to go with it being a dragon, because i like dragons
[17:25] <yofel> one more thing I find interesting:
[17:25] <yofel> $ upower --dump
 can-hibernate: no </snip>
[17:25] <yofel> $ qdbus org.kde.Solid.PowerManagement /org/freedesktop/PowerManagement org.freedesktop.PowerManagement.CanHibernate
[17:25] <yofel> true
[17:25] <yofel> something's broken here...
[17:25] <Riddell> yofel: add it on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kubuntu-q-development
[17:26] <yofel> will do
[17:46] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: about?
[17:47] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: aye, where you at?
[17:48] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: room 201
[17:48] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: but there's internet by the pool!
[17:48] <DarkwingUDS> want to meet there?
[17:49] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: lets
[17:49]  * Riddell goes to the pool
[17:50] <DarkwingUDS> be there in 5 Riddell
[18:10] <rbelem_> DarkwingUDS, /win 43
[18:10] <rbelem_> ops
[18:34] <Peace-> can somebody explain me why  canonical has choosen  ffmpeg by av developer
[18:37] <apachelogger> pardon?
[18:37] <debfx> Peace-: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-May/000891.html
[18:52] <Peace-> wtf
[18:52] <Peace-> i am almost to complete my ffmpegservice menu
[19:10] <eagles0513875_> hey guys can anyone guide me on how to fix this issue and its a rather serious issue as it occurs on 12.04 4.8.2 and 4.8.3 http://pastebin.com/G7YN70Yk
[19:13] <ScottK> agateau: ^^^ I see plasma-widget menubar in the trace.  Is that from your code?
[19:27] <ikonia> eagles0513875_: have you considered logging a bug rather than just keep repeating over and over to people "please help me fix this" - actually log a bug with all the detail so people can look at it
[19:27] <ikonia> eagles0513875_: you seem to just keep asking people over and over "please fix this, it's important" with every bug rather than documenting it and logging it correctly for people to look at and progress through
[19:58] <yofel> hm, gcc 4.7 is dropping public symbols from kdelibs o.O?
[20:01] <yofel> buildlog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/982285/ - most changes are optional, but some (like from libkjsapi4 [libkjs.so]) aren't
[20:21] <ScottK> yofel: Talk to Debian KDE people as they are dealing with it too.
[20:32] <yofel> hm, will poke lisandro later, thanks
[21:00] <JontheEchidna> apol: btw, with final exams out of the way I'm *really* going to do the Muon 1.4 alpha release this weekend :P
[21:00] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I had not seen that, thanks
[21:01] <eagles0513875_> hey guys
[21:02] <eagles0513875_> im having an issue with the netbook shell segfaulting any ideas or pointers on how i can fix it. backtrace is found here http://pastebin.com/G7YN70Yk
[21:02] <eagles0513875_> ikonia: i want to try and fix the bug myself and submit a patch
[21:05] <apol> JontheEchidna: cool
[21:13] <yofel> eagles0513875_: still, file a bug, we don't usually accept bug reports by irc posts
[21:14] <yofel> if you want the potential fix to make it into precise you'll need a bug anyway
[22:04] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: ping?
[22:37] <Riddell> afiestas: could you kidnap this guy?
[22:37] <Riddell> nobody would mind
[22:37] <Riddell> just claim you're an eta terrorist
[22:37] <rbelem_> uaehauh
[22:37] <rbelem_> LOL
[22:40] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: you said he could go ahead
[22:40] <Riddell> I blame this on you!
[22:40] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: Yeah, I know LOL
[22:40]  * rbelem_ kicks DarkwingUDS
[22:42] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: will your hope to improve the website include a plan to put kubuntu docs online?
[22:42] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: Yes.
[22:43] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: Not only will they be online but, the translations will be online as well.
[22:43] <Riddell> action [david.wonderly] put kubuntu-docs with translations on kubuntu.org ?
[22:43] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: +1
[22:43] <DarkwingUDS> AKA yes
[22:44] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: I've asked this before but is littlegirl going to come back?
[22:44] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: I hope so.
[22:45] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: do you have her e-mail?  I can't find it just now
[22:47] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: I'll find it shortly.
[22:47] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: got it
[22:47] <DarkwingUDS> Riddell: https://launchpad.net/~littlergirl


[00:04] <Kon> TJ-: This was his boot log after running your kernel. Still a lot of USB error -71 so I'm not 100% sure the patch addressed this issue. But if the patch was a workaround, maybe? https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/5VjNyBbmdk/
[00:05] <Kon> Someone with more knowledge of this stuff might be interested in that
[00:19] <r00st3r> Hello, anyone has an idea, where I can download P4CR324 firmware for CT500P5SSD8 Crucial P5 NVMe drive? Any FTP server?
[00:20] <oerheks> most likely https://www.crucial.com/support/ssd-support/p5-support
[00:24] <oerheks> crucial Is not uploading firmware to the LVFS/fwupd, so do this from within windows
[00:24] <oerheks> https://fwupd.org/lvfs/search?value=crucial
[01:15] <r00st3r> I have tried MicronStorageExecutive for Linux, but no download links. I will give Windows a shot. Thx! But 'msecli' has a -l Suboption for '-F -U'. "Download and save the firmware for later activation for the specified micron client drive with -n option." Maybe is it possible to download a firmware from an actual P5 device?
[01:19] <oerheks> r00st3r, where do you get that number P4CR324 ?
[01:22] <r00st3r> oerheks: fwupdmgr get-devices
[01:23] <oerheks> oh i thought crucial is not supported
[01:24] <oerheks> so, then you will get the firmware,.. if any
[01:26] <r00st3r> and: StorageExecutiveClient.run (from StorageExecutive_Linux.run)
[01:28] <r00st3r> Maybe I will get a *new* firmware. But I would like to get a saved copy of the actual running firmware.
[01:37] <MrMr> Hello, trying to upgrade ubuntu to 21.04 but i keep getting the 'ubuntu-minimal' could not be located. error
[01:39] <Bashing-om> MrMr: ^ is in main - check your internet connection >> ' sudo apt update ' .
[01:39] <MrMr> Bashing-om I changed the server few times including the main, with no results.
[01:40] <MrMr> it's main now
[01:41] <Bashing-om> !info ubuntu-minimal hirsute | MrMr
[01:43] <oerheks> update to 21.04 .. from which version?
[01:47] <guiverc> MrMr, the error can occur because a `deb mirror://` is used in sources which some blog sites say is valid; none official  lp 1813354
[01:52] <MrMr> Bashing-om did you respond by any chance, i lost connection there
[01:54] <Bashing-om> MrMr: < oerheks> update to 21.04 .. from which version? ,,, < guiverc> MrMr, the error can occur because a `deb mirror://` is used in sources which some blog sites say is valid; none official  lp 1813354 "
[01:57] <MrMr> Bashing-om I'm on 20.10, but I don't see deb mirror entries here
[01:59] <Bashing-om> MrMr: ? ' cat  /etc/apt/sources.list ' to see the source fetch.
[02:00] <MrMr> Bashing-om, right, I was just using nano to view it
[02:00] <MrMr> I'll try to recreate that file, via removing the existing one and running the updater
[02:01] <MrMr> *renaming not removing
[02:02] <Bashing-om> MrMr: Not a good idea there - no sources.list then package manager has nothing at all to work with.
[02:03] <Bashing-om> MrMr: Brain storming but, ' apt show ubuntu-minimal ' does what ?
[02:04] <oerheks> sudo cp /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list && sudo add-apt-repository universe && sudo add-apt-repository multiverse && sudo apt update
[02:13] <MrMr> Bashing-om, Package: ubuntu-minimal
[02:13] <MrMr> Version: 1.459
[02:14] <MrMr> Priority: important
[02:14] <MrMr> Section: metapackages
[02:14] <MrMr> Source: ubuntu-meta
[02:14] <MrMr> Origin: Ubuntu
[02:14] <MrMr> Maintainer: Ubuntu Developers<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[02:14] <MrMr> Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
[02:14] <goddard> can i enable the ubuntu screen sharing from ssh?
[02:14] <Bashing-om> MrMr: Humm .. seems apt then is working - we looking once more at config issues ?
[02:14] <AppXprt> goddard, yea there used to be a way to enable vino from ssh
[02:15] <Bashing-om> MrMr: Toyr flooding the channel resulting in the bot quieting uoi . you will be release momentarily.
[02:16] <AppXprt> with dcong or gconftool-2
[02:16] <AppXprt> dconf*
[02:16] <Bashing-om> !paste | MrMr
[02:16] <AppXprt> goddard, you can also just install and run x11vnc
[02:17] <AppXprt> that will attach vnc to :0
[02:17] <goddard> ok
[02:17] <AppXprt> tightvncserver with create a virtual X11 vnc session on :1
[02:17] <AppXprt> depending on if you want the screen's session or a virtual / separate one
[02:18] <AppXprt> btw, that :0 and :1 is the X session and attaches to VNC port 5900 and 5901 respectively
[02:18] <AppXprt> :2 = 5902 etc...
[02:24] <MrMr> oerheks, I tried that as well and it didn't work
[02:35] <goddard> think vino was replaced or something
[02:38] <tomreyn> it moved to universe with hirsute
[02:40] <tomreyn> "The successor is GNOME Remote Desktop, which is tightly integrated with Mutter window manager" (according to arch wiki)
[03:04] <Saxle> looks like freenode mods took over #ubuntu over there?
[03:05] <oerheks> Yes.
[03:06] <nhaines> Again?
[06:18] <p0indexter>   /exit
[07:24] <TJ-> Kon: thanks for last night's log. It didn't help unfortunately
[07:31] <RaimondRaj> hai can anyone help me solve this problem ( https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/9f598ZT5Dd/ )
[07:32] <oerheks> xenial and bionic ppa's in a focal install
[07:32] <oerheks> remove them?
[07:33] <oerheks> apt-kitware, you added it 3 times
[07:34] <RaimondRaj> might be
[07:36] <RaimondRaj> how to solve it.. please guide me
[07:38] <oerheks> go into update settings, [tab] other software
[07:38] <oerheks> you will find them there
[07:39] <RaimondRaj> OK IM DONE
[07:39] <RaimondRaj> sorry
[07:39] <RaimondRaj> im done
[07:39] <RaimondRaj> solve
[07:39] <oerheks> oke, have fun!
[07:40] <Guest7> hi
[07:42] <RaimondRaj> anyone know about matterbridge
[07:43] <oerheks> matterbridge is available as snap, https://snapcraft.io/matterbridge
[07:43] <oerheks> too much connections, i don't use that
[07:44] <Guest7> I use apt-mirror to build a software warehouse locally
[07:44] <Guest7> this is my sources.list
[07:44] <Guest7> ################
[07:44] <Guest7> deb  http://<IP_ADDRESS>/pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan chimaera main
[07:44] <Guest7> #deb file:///mnt/b2/apps/devuan/chimaera/mirror/pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan
[07:44] <Guest7> deb  http://<IP_ADDRESS>/pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged chimaera main
[07:44] <oerheks> !paste
[07:45] <oerheks> devuan is not ubuntu
[07:46] <Guest7> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4QwccKDxDt/
[07:46] <Guest7> Can anyone help me
[07:46] <oerheks> Guest7, try #devuan or the other ones?
[07:47] <ducasse> Guest7: you're in the wrong channel, we only support ubuntu
[07:49] <Guest7> Are all used “apt-get"
[07:49] <Guest7> ok ,i go #devuan
[08:10] <newt> hello
[08:57] <neutral_> hello
[08:57] <lotuspsychje> welcome neutral_
[08:58] <neutral_> this is my first irssi connect
[09:32] <mago> I did a very long git clone fell asleep and the laptop closed.
[09:32] <mago> How can i check it was complete?
[09:46] <TJ-> mago: "git pull"
[09:49] <mago> TJ- it says already up to date, does that mean the git clone was complete? It wasnt for one of my repositories it was from another "creator"
[09:50] <cbreak> git fsck will check repository integrity
[09:50] <TJ-> mago: assuming the remote.origin is set correctly then 'pull' will do a 'fetch' and then fast-forward merge to the working tree
[09:51] <mago> Tj- it's a 10 GB download on a 300 kb bandwidth will that be fast or take forever?
[09:51] <mago> TJ- it's a 10 GB download on a 300 kb bandwidth will that be fast or take forever?
[09:52] <mago> cbreak do i do the git fsck inside the downloaded git clone folder?
[09:53] <cbreak> almost all git commands should be run in a git repo
[09:53] <cbreak> (or referring to one)
[09:54] <cbreak> a 10GB repository indicates that someone messed up
[09:54] <mago> I downloaded unreal engine source code ... Do I go into the unreal folder and do : git fsck
[09:54] <cbreak> and committed binary files, or similar
[09:54] <mago> Or do I do git fsck unrealengine ?
[09:54] <cbreak> man git-fsck will tell you all the gory details
[09:54] <mago> lulz
[09:55] <cbreak> and as I said above: most commands will need to be run in a repo
[09:58] <mago> cbreak thats right, just checked git fsck in the home folder and does nothing..
[09:58] <mago> In the git unreal folder it's running, 37%.. JUst wanted to be certain and was a check specific to that folder and not some generic check stuff...
[09:58] <mago> cbreak thanks a lot.
[10:57] <mago> cbreak those are the results of the fsck:
[10:57] <mago> Checking object directories: 100% (256/256), done.
[10:57] <mago> Checking objects: 100% (3573049/3573049), done.
[10:57] <mago> Checking connectivity: 3573049, done.
[10:57] <mago> I think everything is right with it...
[10:58] <cbreak> if it would complain about things, you should notice. It's not very subtile :)
[11:37] <enyc> Hrrm...  Curious how well   libimobiledevice  with various FOSS programs  works on ubuntu 20.04/derivs  to manage iTunes music on newer iphones ...
[11:40] <TJ-> enyc: from what I've seen over the years, not very good
[11:40] <TJ-> enyc: that's the pain I've seen others suffer - not my own
[11:53] <lotuspsychje> !iphone | enyc
[12:07] <enyc> lotuspsychje: hrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrm 10.04 12.04 14.04 listed, all outdated ;-(
[12:08] <lotuspsychje> enyc: yeah some wiki's might need a revamp indeed, but some tweaks/methods can still be valid even when old(er)
[12:09] <lotuspsychje> enyc: i know clementine plays great with apple devices
[12:12] <enyc> lotuspsychje: on its' own or  needs libimobiledevice  added ?
[12:13] <lotuspsychje> enyc: if i recall, libmobile is to connect to your device and clementine plays well as music sync
[12:19] <enyc> TJ-: I somewhat got impression that situation has improved over time...
[13:13] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[13:20] <BinarySavior> hello, I have a fresh install of ubuntu 21.04, I updated my drivers, i'm using proprietary nvidia drivers, whenever i launch minecraft i get this error message: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/ThhjjtR336/
[13:20] <BinarySavior> minecraft still launches, i'm not sure what this error implies
[13:25] <tomreyn> BinarySavior: cat /var/log/gpu-manager.log | nc termbin.com 9999 && ls -l /var/log/gpu-manager.log
[13:25] <tomreyn> this should return two lines
[13:26] <BinarySavior> https://termbin.com/d5td
[13:27] <BinarySavior> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1378 Jul 25 09:14 /var/log/gpu-manager.log
[13:29] <BinarySavior> could this be a conflict of nvidia x server and ubuntu display settings?
[13:29] <tomreyn> "nvidia x server"?
[13:30] <tomreyn> oh "nvidia x server settings"
[13:30] <tomreyn> aka "nvidia-settings"
[13:30] <BinarySavior> proprietary gui that comes with the driver to manage /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[13:30] <BinarySavior> yes
[13:30] <BinarySavior> nvidia-settings
[13:31] <tomreyn> so all i can tell so far is that the nvidia proproetary kernel module series 470 seems to have been loaded properly last time graphics were initialized.
[13:32] <tomreyn> you should be using nvidia.settings when using nvidia proprietary drivers. it should not conflict with ubuntu display settings then
[13:32] <BinarySavior> when i edit the displays in ubuntu settings, what file does that interface with?
[13:34] <tomreyn> i'm not actually sure how those are stored.
[13:34] <BinarySavior> oh it's ~/.config/monitors.xml
[13:34] <tomreyn> oh yes this looks right
[13:35] <tomreyn> do other gl applications work fine?
[13:35] <tomreyn> such as glxgears
[13:38] <Delf> What is the standard/default way of "handling" new network interface(s)? Auto configure with dhcp or let user/root decide?
[13:38] <BinarySavior> glxgears works
[13:38] <BinarySavior> okay i found a problem though
[13:39] <tomreyn> BinarySavior: what problem?
[13:40] <BinarySavior> i removed that monitors.xml file and logged out/in.  Then my right monitor (vertical) was not rotated so I opened nvidia-settings and configured it to be rotated.  Then I saved to /etc/X11/xorg.conf, and I quit, logged out, logged in, but the monitor is still rotated
[13:40] <BinarySavior> *not rotated
[13:41] <BinarySavior> the only way i can get the monitor to save it's rotated config is if I use ubuntu display settings to rotate it (monitors.xml)
[13:41] <tomreyn> Delf: the latter, i'd say. there are differences in how things are handled by network-manager and systemd.networkd (especially when using netplan)
[13:42] <TJ-> Delf: IPv6 RA-PD !
[13:43] <tomreyn> BinarySavior: hmm maybe logout + login isn't enough there
[13:43] <Delf> Interesting. Is it different with ubuntu headless?
[13:45] <TJ-> BinarySavior: did it really save to /etc/X11/ though? I recall, many years ago when I was using Nvidia, that sometimes nvidia-settings would silently fail to write that file because it didn't have permissions. Worth checking the file itself for the rotate option
[13:48] <BinarySavior> TJ- it elevated when i pressed that button, but i confirmed anyway, i found the proper rotation settings in xorg.conf
[13:49] <TJ-> BinarySavior: sounds like Gnome/display settings may change that then and set it's own default
[13:50] <BinarySavior> ahh okay, i thought that they may have been conflicting with each other and perhaps that's why i'm getting glx errors, but that's not the case, i can just configure my monitor to rotate using ~/.config/monitors.xml
[13:51] <TJ-> xrandr --output X --rotate left
[13:52] <BinarySavior> my main problem is that i'm getting glx crashes when running minecraft: https://termbin.com/d5td
[13:53] <BinarySavior> TJ- https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vtYfNmWpNn/
[13:54] <tomreyn> i think you were meant to replace "X" by one of the outputs listed in the "xrandr" (without options) output
[13:55] <TJ-> BinarySavior: haha... I was giving you an example of a command you can use to manually set values for this session only
[13:55] <BinarySavior> oh okay thanks
[13:55] <TJ-> BinarySavior: in other words, command-line options :)
[13:55] <BinarySavior> makes more sense now, i was confused
[14:47] <BinarySavior> if i use firejail to install an application via wine, will it be permanently sandboxed or do I need to run firejail each time i launch the application
[14:48] <BinarySavior> nvm i think i need to run firejail each time
[15:06] <Guest893> Hello
[15:07] <coconut> !ask | Guest893
[15:07] <mandorlo> hello
[15:07] <locsmif> Hi
[15:08] <mandorlo> it's my first time in irc
[15:08] <alfagulf> Hello, After upgrading from 18.04 to 20.04 I noticed that printing my Brother DCP-115C (USB connected) takes about 3 minutes from the time I request a print till it actually start printing.
[15:09] <alfagulf> The same printer on the samde PC works fine under Windows10 (Dual Boot)
[15:09] <Guest893> Okk... Am new here. Kindly direct me on steps to use my windows 10 system with Linux together
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> !dualboot | Guest893
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> !uefi | Guest893 see also
[15:10] <mandorlo> wondefull the ubottu
[15:10] <alfagulf> I tried searching for a solution for a week now but unfortunately I count find a solution, Can some one help?
[15:10] <mandorlo> !fediverse | Guest893
[15:11] <Guest893> Ok thanks...I will visit the links
[15:11] <alfagulf> I did upgrade to 21.04 now, hoping that it may fix the issue, but it did not.
[15:12] <BinarySavior> alfagulf, my 20.04 installation took 2 min to boot for some reason (18.04 took 10 seconds), upgrading to 21.04 now i'm back to 10 seconds :D
[15:12] <locsmif> alfagulf: what is the protocol used?
[15:12] <locsmif> Did anything change in that regard
[15:13] <alfagulf> BinarySavior, I am not referring to boot time, but rather to print time.
[15:13] <locsmif> alfagulf: e.g. PS3 vs PCL
[15:13] <BinarySavior> i know, hopefully no further action is required after upgrading
[15:14] <locsmif> also, anything in dmesg wrt. your USB port/controller?
[15:14] <alfagulf> locsmif, What do you mean?
[15:14] <TJ-> BinarySavior: you might find 'systemd-analyze' useful if you do get further boot delays
[15:14] <alfagulf> I am using cups
[15:15] <alfagulf> Where to find the protocol used?
[15:15] <TJ-> alfagulf: http://localhost:631/
[15:18] <locsmif> alfagulf: ultimately, it would be prudent to know what your driver is doing in those 3 minutes. Is it waiting while the printer is rasterising? Does the printer have a web interface/status page of its own? Does it have an IP address? (Since it's connected via USB, I wouldn't presume so, but ok)
[15:19] <locsmif> Does e.g. top/htop show the process sleeping? Is there any traffic toward or from the printer on the USB bus?
[15:19] <locsmif> Also, have you search for driver bug reports?
[15:19] <lotuspsychje> BinarySavior: is that before login screen or after login you getting boot delay?
[15:19] <locsmif> searched*
[15:20] <locsmif> Most importantly, what if you boot an old Ubuntu live ISO and configure your printer... is it faster then? In other words, can you also reproduce the old, fast situation?
[15:20] <locsmif> These are some steps I would undertake to diagnose the problem.
[15:21] <locsmif> Allows attempt to narrow down the problem as exactly as possible... determine the exact driver your 18.04 installation was using and attempt to compile that driver from source if necessary to see if you get rid of the problem in 21.04
[15:22] <locsmif> s/Allows/Always/
[15:22] <Gaboradon> Hello
[15:22] <Gaboradon> Find command in android isn't search for dirs, or I'm not using it right, any ideas?
[15:22] <TJ-> alfagulf: most modern printers, and CUPS, now use driverless printing. Instead the printer advertises its capabilities and connection protocols using multicast-DNS Service-Discovery
[15:23] <locsmif> Obviously it would be much better if anybody had a direct answer, as in: "this is a known problem, see bug report xyz", but that isn't always the case
[15:23] <TJ-> alfagulf: there may be an issue with that or you may have a legacy driver installed that is causing delays
[15:23] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: hi! do you have an ubuntu support question?
[15:23] <Gaboradon> Well yeah, how do I find folders in ubuntu?
[15:23] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: using GNU find should work
[15:24] <tomreyn> find -type d
[15:24] <locsmif> alfagulf: just curious, what is your exact printer model?
[15:24] <Gaboradon> Well okay, it doesn't work on android I guess I'll go and ask them, might be different than other linuxes.
[15:24] <locsmif> Oh, nvm, you said that
[15:25] <TJ-> hmmm, and USB connected. I wonder if its affected by the newish USB driverless stuff
[15:27] <locsmif> There are forum discussions which are like 14 years old discussing AppArmor problems with the driver
[15:27] <TJ-> locsmif: those would show up in the logs. alfagulf have you checked the system logs?
[15:37] <Gaboradon> tomreyn: Ah I was not telling find to do full recursive search,   find / would have weird behavior searching in some subfolders but skipping others
[15:37] <Gaboradon> Or just 1 level depth
[15:39] <tomreyn> Gaboradon: which ubuntu linux release are you referring to?
[15:40] <Gaboradon> Nevermind I solved the issue.
[15:46] <alfagulf> locsmif, Sorry for the delay, I was trying to find the protocol in the syslog, but couldn't, this is what is mentioned in the cups web page:
[15:46] <alfagulf> Description:	MFC210C
[15:46] <alfagulf> Location:
[15:46] <alfagulf> Driver:	Brother MFC-210C CUPS v1.1 (color)
[15:46] <alfagulf> Connection:	usb://Brother/DCP-115C?serial=BROB7F633558
[15:46] <alfagulf> Defaults:	job-sheets=none, none media=iso_a4_210x297mm sides=one-sided
[15:47] <coconut> !paste | alfagulf
[15:49] <alfagulf> https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/nXzrjWPJQG/
[15:51] <alfagulf> locsmif, My printer is DCP-115C
[15:54] <manwhowouldbekin> !patience
[15:55] <alfagulf> TJ-, I first let ubuntu search for the printer and install the driver, when that didn't work, I used brother installation script which also results in the same delay.
[16:00] <alfagulf> This is the driver install by ubuntu (Not the Brother installation script) : https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/GYzcRNNtzM/
[16:01] <TJ-> alfagulf: did you look at the CUPS admin panel I linked you to?
[16:01] <nuala> the file `/usr/lib/gimp/2.0/interpreters/pygimp.interp` is not present for me. Basically I am missing the python-fu option in GIMP. Research reveals there might have been a 'gimp-python' package but it is removed? (I can not find though)
[16:02] <alfagulf> TJ-, yes I did look, the printer is shown, which information would you like to have?
[16:02] <raj> hi
[16:02] <tomreyn> nuala: which ubuntu release are you running?
[16:03] <nuala> VERSION="20.04.2 LTS (Focal Fossa)"
[16:03] <TJ-> alfagulf: not me, but if you look at the connection info that might give clues. You may also try editing the printer and altering the driver, if alternatives are offered
[16:06] <tomreyn> nuala: in ubuntu 18.04 LTS amd64, according to https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/amd64/gimp/filelist , there was /usr/lib/gimp/2.0/interpreters/pygimp.interp , but the 20.04 LTS amd64 "gimp" package does not contain this file at this location: https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/amd64/gimp/filelist
[16:06] <tomreyn> it could have moved to a different location, or be provided by a different package in 20.04, though
[16:06] <locsmif> alfagulf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingPrintingProblems
[16:06] <locsmif> just fyi
[16:07] <tomreyn> nuala: you can also do a search for the file name on "bionic" (18.04 LTS) https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=pygimp.interp&mode=filename&suite=bionic&arch=any  nad on "focal" (20.04 LTS): https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=pygimp.interp&mode=filename&suite=focal&arch=any
[16:08] <tomreyn> nuala: so there's no such file in 20.04 LTS.
[16:08] <tomreyn> nuala: bug 1881684 seems related
[16:08] <locsmif> alfagulf: also this might be relevant - quite a lot of information in there. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=712512
[16:09] <alfagulf> brb
[16:10] <nuala> tomreyn: thx for clearifying and the launchpad link! :)
[16:10] <tomreyn> nuala: i would not recommend the 'solution' provided in this bug report, though
[16:11] <tomreyn> not without understanding the implaications of downloading 'random' .deb files off some servers and installing them on a possibly incompatible ubuntu release, anyways
[16:12] <nuala> yusss, i was just reading the same thing and frowned. but i had a nudge it would be a python2->3 thing, which i take from it.
[16:16] <tomreyn> nuala: maybe try this PPA (unsupported, like any PPA): https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuhandbook1/+archive/ubuntu/gimp?field.series_filter=focal
[16:19] <tomreyn> nuala: actually, this won't provide python scripting either
[16:21] <tomreyn> * python2 scripting
[16:35] <nuala> ^ but still thanks a lot for suggesting! (I put all my trust in a tahr right now and hope ESM comes to rescue)
[16:46] <leftyfb> nuala: tahr? You're still running Ubuntu 14.04? The one that was EOL'd 3 years ago?
[16:47] <webchat10> Hi
[16:47] <webchat10> I need some guidance as 1st time user of ubuntu
[16:48] <webchat10> Is anyone here?
[16:48] <Mekaneck> !ask | webchat10
[16:49] <leftyfb> webchat10: it's best if you just ask your support question and wait
[16:50] <webchat10> !can anyone decrypt .moqs . I am switching to ubuntu for the recent Ransomware attack on my pc
[16:52] <leftyfb> webchat10: We can help you install ubuntu. Decrypting .moqs isn't supported here. It looks like there's several youtube videos showing you how to though.
[16:52] <leftyfb> webchat10: it might be quicker to just install ubuntu and restore your files from backup
[16:53] <webchat10> i have followed the mentioned steps in the FAQ. i have a bootable pendrive with ISO . Is there need of antivirus here too in Ubuntu?
[16:54] <leftyfb> webchat10: no
[16:54] <webchat10> Can I decrypt my files that are infected , family pics videos etc . in UBUNTU?
[16:57] <webchat10> The Irony of the situation is that my external HDD was connected during the attack hoping that Switching to UBUNTU will help avoid further inconvenience
[16:57] <leftyfb> webchat10: I don't think anyone has written anything to decrypt ransomware files in ubuntu. It's certainly nothing officially supported
[16:58] <TJ-> you'd need the decryption key surely?
[16:59] <webchat10> I read something about Kali, allows to decrypt it . Do people get attacked by ransomware in UBUNTU.(last question)
[17:00] <nuala> leftyfb: not exactly, i try to find some pre python3 version to circumvent https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=712512. So to get to they X->Y issue: I'd like tp export 'layers as png' from GIMP. I was aware of [1] but previous conversation and [2] just really tied it all together for me
[17:00] <leftyfb> webchat10: not likely
[17:01] <nuala> [1] https://askubuntu.com/questions/485917/gimp-export-every-layer-as-a-separate-png-image , [2] https://blenderartists.org/t/gimp-2-10-14-ora-file-support/1228369/6, also i meant bug #1881684 , sry for the noise ><
[18:46] <DynamiteDan> Hello. I need to do a installer that runs on Linux Distributions. Does anyone has a sugestion what framework to use?
[18:56] <Mekaneck> DynamiteDan: this is a Ubuntu support channel not a feneral support channel. So you're question is offtopic. Maybe ask in #linux
[18:56] <Mekaneck> feneral/general
[18:56] <DynamiteDan> ah okay. SOrry
[18:59] <tomreyn> DynamiteDan: try #linux
[19:03] <rbasak> DynamiteDan: it's generally inappropriate to provide users in this ecosystem with an "installer" at all. Instead, please ship a package they can install - for example a snap (https://snapcraft.io/)
[19:42] <dman777_alter> https://dpaste.org/JsaB I am using wpa_sup for all my wifi needs. How can I get wlp58s0 to come up in netplan without trying to connect?
[19:49] <lgomez> Hi there!
[19:57] <dman777_alter> hi
[20:11] <hellbitch> is this the interzone? lol
[20:12] <hellbitch> since I tattoed my face I can't get anyone in the RV park to talk to me
[20:14] <Mekaneck> hellbitch: i'd change the nick into something appropriate and 2nd this is the Ubuntu support channel. If you don't have a support question move over to #ubuntu-offtopic for casual talk.
[20:14] <hellbitch> very well
[20:18] <dman777_alter> anyone know how to set the timeout limit in netplan?
[20:23] <alzgh> when running `apt list --upgradable` I'd like to know from which repository each upgradable package is. How can I do that with this command? I know I can use `apt show <package_name>` for individual package but I'd like to have it with the first command as a summary.
[20:28] <oerheks> alzgh, use -s simulate ? i am not aware of any extention that shows all package info.. maybe the gui updater will
[20:34] <alzgh> oerheks the information I'm seeking is the `APT-SOURCE` line in `apt show <package_anme>`s output
[20:34] <alzgh> I guess I have to cut the package names from `apt list --upgradable` and feed them one by one to `apt show` and get that line from it?
[20:35] <tomreyn> do you mean "APT-Sources:"?
[20:36] <alzgh> tomreyn yes, sorry for the confusion
[20:38] <tomreyn> i assume the information you actually want is provided by   apt policy <packagename>
[20:44] <alzgh> From apt policy is much more convenient. Previously I planed to grab some info from apt list --upgradable and some from apt show. With apt policy I can feed package names from apt list --upgradable to apt policy and cut all the information I want from there.
[20:50] <alzgh> I remember having to read something about some equivalent to for loops in bash. Maybe it was a command? I don't remember correctly if it was bash or some other programming language.
[20:50] <alzgh> If anyone can jog my memory, much appreciate it.
[20:54] <tomreyn> something equvalent to for loops in bash are for loops in bash
[20:54] <tomreyn> there is also while
[20:57] <hggdh> and until
[21:00] <morgans> I removed the login password file rm login.keyring but now I dont know how to set a password. (Yes looked it up and the directions didnt work.) focal.
[21:13] <jmuriel> Anyone know why st (suckless simple terminal) does weird things with the scrollwheel? Like inputs "^E" in the shell?
[22:14] <lantech19446> You should be zlined for that nick
[22:15] <niggers> is it possible to install the ubuntu on an iphone?
[22:17] <niggers> or it must be the robot phone of the poor people?


[03:27] <boyet> hi @arraybolt3 the issue exist in other window manager. i used mutter then i changed to openbox and the panels does not disappear
[06:16] <boyet> good morning. i would like to inquire how will i keep my last monitor resolution 1280x720 setting because it will restore to 1920x1080 after i closed the lid of my laptop or after i restart or turn my laptop
[06:17] <boyet> i already saved and use 1280x720 as my current resolution
[06:49] <guiverc> boyet, release details can sometimes help, but if its restarting with different settings; the OS maybe thinks the old screen was disconnected & new monitor connected..  is this an installed system? live system? what release?


[00:39] <cjohnston> I'm getting a whole bunch of 503's, anything going on?
[00:49] <wgrant> cjohnston: What is the content of the 503?
[00:49] <cjohnston> they've fone away, but browsing code
[00:50] <wgrant> Ah
[00:50] <wgrant> codebrowse is an entirely separate system
[06:47] <staticfloat> Hello, is there a news source I can go to to find out more about why imports are down/when they will be back up?  Thank you!
[07:31] <wgrant> staticfloat: They should be back on Monday. We took them down for a couple of days to ease load on some failing hardware as it's replaced.
[07:35] <staticfloat> Awesome, thank you for that wgrant.  I can take the weekend off. :)
[20:35] <ESphynx> hey guys, any reason why import is taking forever right now? :|
[20:38] <czajkowski> ESphynx: see the topic
[20:39] <ESphynx> ah! :) hehe tahnks


[00:51] <Red_HamsterX> It's got limitations, but a library that takes a screenshot of the active window and uploads it to a webserver, as discussed with godbyk about eight hours ago, has been committed under quickshot/lib/.
[00:51] <Red_HamsterX> Window decorations are correctly handled using both Compiz and Metacity.
[00:52] <godbyk> cool
[00:52] <Red_HamsterX> (I'll look into breaking the active window requirement later)
[01:28] <humphreybc> what's new folks?
[01:28] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: not that much
[01:28] <humphreybc> don't be foolish, there's always something new :P
[01:29] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: miss me or notice that I was gone? :D
[01:29] <humphreybc> i did notice you were gone!
[01:29] <humphreybc> where have you been?
[01:29] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: on IRC still sure, but not coming here
[01:30] <humphreybc> oh right
[01:30] <humphreybc> howcome?
[01:31] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: didn't want to.  plus I am not working on the actsual manual anyway
[01:31] <humphreybc> fair nuff
[01:32] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: How's it coming along anyway?
[01:32] <humphreybc> busy busy busy
[01:32] <humphreybc> very busy
[01:32] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: differnet answet to what dutchie gave me earlier, altough similar
[01:33] <humphreybc> heh what did he say?
[01:33] <sebsebseb> answer above,  I don't need to correct this, but  answet  looks like a right silly typeo to me
[01:34] <sebsebseb> [21:43] <sebsebseb> dutchie: How's the manual coming along?
[01:34] <sebsebseb> [22:05] <dutchie> sebsebseb: well-ish I think
[01:34] <sebsebseb> [22:05] <dutchie> lots still to do though
[01:35] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: there you go!
[01:35] <humphreybc> lol
[01:35] <sebsebseb> Why lol?
[01:36] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: ?????
[01:36] <humphreybc> sorry dude i'm pretty busy at the moment, chat in a sec
[01:37] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: right ok
[01:58] <humphreybc> sebsebseb: hi
[01:58] <humphreybc> can talk now, what's up?
[02:00] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: not much,  listening to music, and reaching tech news
[02:00] <humphreybc> groovy
[02:00] <sebsebseb> reading not reaching above
[02:00] <humphreybc> you seen all the new ubuntu branding?
[02:00] <sebsebseb> yeah
[02:00] <sebsebseb> jono's link
[02:00] <sebsebseb> and  the other one
[02:00] <humphreybc> what do you think?
[02:00] <sebsebseb> a disapoitment
[02:00] <sebsebseb> they could of done a nice Lucid Lynx background similar to the 8.10 one
[02:01] <sebsebseb> got to wait untill later on, when  the repo's will be updated,  then I can install alpha 3 into vm and get the updates and try.   before I tried to do alpha 3 in vm, but the installer or whatever crashed
[02:01] <sebsebseb> however I was also doing back and forward then
[02:02] <sebsebseb> Thursday 4th user interface,  altough when they do it I guess it will already be Friday for you
[02:02] <sebsebseb> user interface freeze, above
[02:03] <sebsebseb> anyway yeah a nice Lucid Lynx background would be :) as a default background, but no
[02:03] <humphreybc> i think they've made a huge mistake by putting the window controls on the left
[02:13] <humphreybc> the purple is kinda nifty though
[02:16] <godbyk> humphreybc: everyone keeps talking about the window controls on the left, but I haven't seen it yet.
[02:16] <godbyk> what I have seen is the help button on the left.
[02:16] <godbyk> the other buttons are on the right (hidden behind another window)
[02:16] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[02:16] <godbyk> and if I remember correctly, that's the way it's always been.
[02:17] <sebsebseb> humphreybc:  godbyk There's also this link http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/03/03/refreshing-the-ubuntu-brand/
[02:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: what section does it talk about the controls being on the left?
[02:18] <humphreybc> scroll down to "New GtkThemes"
[02:18] <godbyk> humphreybc: if you're just talking about the screenshots, look at the current appearance dialog.. help button on the left, close button on the right.
[02:19] <humphreybc> no i mean the minimize, maximise and close buttons
[02:19] <godbyk> aha!
[02:19] <humphreybc> they've always been on the top right of windows
[02:19] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: yeah well
[02:19] <humphreybc> from now on, they're on the left - like OS X
[02:19] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: Matt Assay whatever his name is
[02:19] <humphreybc> and for no apparent reason
[02:19] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: he likes Mac OS X
[02:20] <godbyk> those are affected by the theme, though, right? so you just pick a different theme and they're back on the right.
[02:20] <humphreybc> mpt?
[02:20] <humphreybc> godbyk, yes
[02:20] <humphreybc> but it's the _default_ theme
[02:20] <humphreybc> and loads of people don't change from default
[02:20] <humphreybc> the problem i have is that there is no reason to move to the left
[02:20] <godbyk> how do you know there's no reason?
[02:20] <humphreybc> it actually makes it look worse, because the left is already clogged with the file, edit, view menus
[02:20] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: if the controls are on the left right.  well now I am also thinking that  this purple background is  OS X like as well
[02:20] <humphreybc> see in OS X it works because those menus are in the panel, not the windows
[02:21] <humphreybc> so now the window title, window controls AND the application menus are ALL on the left
[02:21] <humphreybc> which looks stupid
[02:21] <humphreybc> there's this huge gap on the right
[02:21] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: I guess with Lucid they are trying to compete against OS X a bit
[02:21] <humphreybc> i don't see what it adds, and from a design point of view, it makes no sense
[02:22] <humphreybc> yeah well i'm going to ask mpt myself to see if he can explain the reasoning behind the decision
[02:22] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: who's mpt?
[02:22] <humphreybc> if the reason isn't good, i'm going to challenge the decision
[02:22] <godbyk> lol
[02:22] <humphreybc> mpt is canonical's design guy
[02:23] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: anyway  minimize,  maximize, and close buttons should be on the right like Windows
[02:23] <godbyk> why do you think they should be on the right as opposed to the left?
[02:23] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: go back uhmm I guess it's about four years ago now actsually  I did OS X theme on Ubuntu,  and I had the icons on the left like OS X,  and well  I coudn't just get used to that
[02:24] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: also there's a way in Gnome to change it to left or right still I guess so :D
[02:24] <sebsebseb> however default should be on the right for sure
[02:24] <sebsebseb> since that's what Windows has
[02:24] <humphreybc> i know
[02:24] <godbyk> sebsebseb: why couldn't you get used to it?  just too accustomed to them being on the right and couldn't overcome that muscle memory?
[02:24] <sebsebseb> godbyk: at the time I just wanted Ubuntu to look like OS X, but  I  wanted to keep the buttons on the right, where I was used to them
[02:25] <godbyk> so far, the only reason I've heard for putting the buttons on the right is "because that's what I'm used to".  are there any other reasons?
[02:25] <sebsebseb> godbyk: I tried on the left, and it was like no
[02:25] <sebsebseb> godbyk: Ubuntu is mainly about getting Windows users not OS X users
[02:25] <sebsebseb> godbyk: Windows users have it on the right
[02:26] <sebsebseb> that's what they are used to
[02:26] <godbyk> I think Ubuntu should stand on its own.
[02:26] <sebsebseb> also trying to copy OS X is not really a good thing
[02:26] <sebsebseb> just like if they try and copy Windows, that's not really a good thing
[02:26] <godbyk> It doesn't exist to lure Windows or OS X users away. It exists of its own accord and users should switch to it for reasons other than where the minimize button is located. :)
[02:27] <sebsebseb> godbyk: I am thinking hrm at this Lucid release, from what I know about it, and have tried so far.  Thankfuly there are other good distros as well :)
[02:27] <godbyk> sebsebseb: So you're negating your 'because Windows does it that way' argument?
[02:27] <sebsebseb> godbyk: however Ubuntu is still the one that most newbies will go to first at the moment
[02:27] <sebsebseb> and most of them will come from Windows
[02:28] <godbyk> What parts of Windows should we emulate and what parts shouldn't we?  How do we decide?
[02:29] <sebsebseb> godbyk: well if they end up on the right,  that's something else I'll have to use gconf editor for
[02:30] <sebsebseb> to put back on left
[02:30] <sebsebseb> just like I need to use it, to  put  icons back in system menu and what's missing from places, since silly upstream Gnome decission, and how they also removed the interface thing
[02:31] <godbyk> Heh.
[02:31] <godbyk> So you disagree with the reasoning behind the menu icons? Or just prefer it the old way because that's what you're used to?
[02:31] <sebsebseb> old way since that's what I have used since 2004
[02:32] <sebsebseb> since before Ubuntu
[02:33] <godbyk> Unfortunately for those stuck in their ways, progress requires change. :)
[02:33] <sebsebseb> From what I have seen from Lucid so far,  it's rather hrm,  but thankfuly their are other good distros out there as well,  Mandriva, Fedora, and so on.
[02:34] <sebsebseb> however as someone who wants Desktop Linux to gain a more proper market share, well I'll still have to support Ubuntu,  even if I am not as keen on it as I used to be.
[02:35] <sebsebseb> support Ubuntu as in, help other people with it at times,  if I want to try and make a difference, which I do,  but yeah it won't make much difference,  Windows has what a billion or so users?
[02:36] <sebsebseb> plus it's a nice thing to help people with their computer,  and on the software side I am quite good at that really,  for basic stuff
[02:37] <sebsebseb> godbyk: stuck with their ways blah de blah,  yeah  so now the theme gets changed, like people wanted,  except  XP,  Vista, and Windows 7  and Mandriva as well as a few other Linux distros,   probably all still look better than Ubuntu by default.   Well I don't really know yet,  I will need to try this new theme stuff properly for real,  before I can decide if I think it's good or bad.
[02:38] <sebsebseb> godbyk: Fedora had Plymouth for quite a while, about time Ubuntu has it really,  Mandriva has it as well.
[02:38] <sebsebseb> !ot
[02:38] <manualbot> Best to keep this channel mainly on topic!
[02:38] <sebsebseb> :)  That's the message I suggested for the factoid
[02:38] <godbyk> lol.. nice.
[02:39] <godbyk> Most of the arguments I've heard against the minimize/maximize/close button placement and the menu icons have boiled down to "we just plain like it this way and don't want to change".
[02:39] <godbyk> Which is a fine argument as far as it goes.
[02:39] <godbyk> But there may be good reasons to change.
[02:40] <godbyk> The changes may, in fact, be an improvement to usability.
[02:40] <godbyk> For example, removing superfluous menu icons means that the icons that remain attract my attention and have more meaning.
[02:40] <godbyk> They serve as signposts and don't get lost in the jumble of other multicolored and mostly indecipherable (and therefore meaningless) icons.
[02:41] <godbyk> As for the window controls, I haven't read any studies on that, so I'm not sure if there's an argument one way or another.
[02:41] <sebsebseb> uhmm I put probably  all still look better tahn Ubuntu by default,  well that's wrong,  they do look better than Ubuntu by default
[02:41] <sebsebseb> altough looks are of course opinion
[02:41] <sebsebseb> some people like this, other people like that
[02:41] <godbyk> I could see a hypothesis that their placement on the left is bad because it makes it too easy to accidentally close the window when you wanted to hit the File menu.
[02:42] <godbyk> But perhaps it's better on the left because that's where the other common mouse targets are.
[02:42] <sebsebseb> as for the buttons,  some people really want it on the right since that's what they are used to,  others want it on the left since they like how OS X does things.
[02:42] <sebsebseb> others won't care if it's on the right or left
[02:42] <godbyk> We'd have to experiment and see.
[02:42] <sebsebseb> LTS isn't really the one to experiment in
[02:42] <sebsebseb> oh on the left ah yes
[02:42] <sebsebseb> Gnome 3
[02:43] <godbyk> I'm less interested in how it looks (the opinion bits) and more interested in how well it functions.  (Though appearance does affect usability.)
[02:43] <sebsebseb> that might be to do with it if they are putting minimize, maximize, and close buttons on the left, something to do with Gnome 3
[02:44] <sebsebseb> just like their edits on the right,  well  Gnome 3  has something a bit like that on the right
[02:44] <sebsebseb> !ot
[02:44] <manualbot> Best to keep this channel mainly on topic!
[02:44] <sebsebseb> we are, but oh well
[02:45] <godbyk> There's not much else going on at the moment, so it's okay. :)
[02:45] <godbyk> (Unless you're just enjoying ordering manualbot around. ;-))
[02:45] <sebsebseb> it's a bit of fun to use the factoid though, since  when the bot came.  well soon after it got my factoid suggestion
[02:46] <sebsebseb> godbyk: Do you know anything about Gnome 3?
[02:46] <sebsebseb> Have you seen screenshots or something
[02:46] <sebsebseb> some of these features the later Ubuntu features,  are in a way preparing people for Gnome 3
[02:47] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: manual will change quite a bit I think, when  Gnome 3 becomes the default
[02:48] <godbyk> sebsebseb: I've seen a few screenshots here and there.
[02:48] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: altough  that won't be untill 10.10 or 11.04 I guess
[02:48] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: no not 10.10 I mean
[02:49] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: 11.04 or 11.11
[02:49] <sebsebseb> a bit to early for Ubuntu to have Gnome 3 as a default for 10.10 I think, since Gnome 3 will be released in September
[03:25]  * humphreybc has just finished writing a lengthy blog article on the new branding: http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/my-thoughts-on-the-ubuntu-branding-refresh/
[03:32] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: about to read that then
[03:42] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: I am reading it now, and I will link to it in #ubuntu+1  as well as another channel
[03:42] <humphreybc> sweet as
[03:43] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: sweet as?
[03:43] <humphreybc> heh, it's a kiwi thing :D
[03:43] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: you used their images though, maybe you shoudn't of done that
[03:43] <humphreybc> i'm allowed to
[03:43] <sebsebseb> you sure?
[03:44] <humphreybc> yep
[03:46] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: oh so it's just as simple as changing the theme, to have the buttons on the left?
[03:47] <sebsebseb> that's what I was going to do anyway, if Lucid was using the Karmic icon theme
[03:47] <sebsebseb> I like the Gnome defaults :)
[03:48] <humphreybc> as i understand it, the buttons are linked to the theme
[03:49] <humphreybc> at least, they have been in the past. I don't know whether they're going to *force* all themes to have the buttons on the left for this release.
[03:49] <humphreybc> Either way has pros and cons
[03:49] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: Mat asay whatever he is called
[03:49] <sebsebseb> that new  Canonical employee
[03:49] <humphreybc> which i can discuss later, but right now i have to head off to a computer lab
[03:49] <humphreybc> new canonical employee?
[03:49] <sebsebseb> he likes Mac OS X a lot,  according  to another channel I go to, people in that
[03:49] <humphreybc> who's that?
[03:50] <humphreybc> you sure you're not getting confused with Matthew Paul Thomas, ie, mpt?
[03:50] <sebsebseb> no
[03:50] <humphreybc> mpt has been around for a while
[03:50] <humphreybc> okay
[03:50] <humphreybc> well the thing is, it wasn't just one person who decided on all this
[03:50] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: the new employee who's doing what Shuttleworth used to do
[03:50] <humphreybc> well mark used to be the CEO, and the CEO of canonical now is a lady
[03:50] <humphreybc> anyway, i have to dash mate
[03:51] <humphreybc> i'll talk to you later :)
[03:51] <sebsebseb> humphreybc:  I guess I meant what she used to do then
[03:51] <sebsebseb> Cheif Operating System Officer or whatever it is
[04:23] <Red_HamsterX> humphreybc, have you had a chance to go over the screenshot-ubmission idea that was discussed about thirteen hours ago?
[04:25] <Red_HamsterX> If not, I can summarize.
[04:32] <humphreybc> uuhm nope i haven't seen it
[04:32] <humphreybc> summarize please :)
[04:33] <Red_HamsterX> One-line: submission via HTTP POST.
[04:34] <humphreybc> who suggested that?
[04:34] <humphreybc> and can you elaborate?
[04:34] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk suggested it.
[04:35] <Red_HamsterX> We bounced the idea around, with Luke in the middle, and it seemed to be viable.
[04:35] <humphreybc> okay. thumper had a meeting with the LP managers this morning and he was going to discuss our stuff
[04:35] <humphreybc> before we decide on anything we'll see what the outcome was
[04:35] <Red_HamsterX> He'll set up a server that'll just accept and tag images with a versionable nameing scheme.
[04:35] <Red_HamsterX> It's just an idea, of course.
[04:36] <humphreybc> yeah
[04:36] <humphreybc> that could be nice and simple
[04:36] <humphreybc> just using a database?
[04:36] <Red_HamsterX> Filesystem, probably.
[04:36] <Red_HamsterX> No database needed.
[04:37] <Red_HamsterX> I've got proto-type code that takes a screenshot of the active window, corrected for decorations, and uploads it via HTTP ready for testing.
[04:37] <Red_HamsterX> It's been committed under quickshot/lib.py.
[04:37] <humphreybc> oO sounds very promising, nice work
[04:37] <Red_HamsterX> It handles every theme I've thrown at it, as well as Compiz.
[04:38] <humphreybc> fantastic!
[04:38] <Red_HamsterX> Swapping HTTP for something else should be easy, though.
[04:38] <humphreybc> the sweet smell of progress ;)
[04:38] <Red_HamsterX> I'm hoping to help a lot this weekend.
[04:38] <humphreybc> okay, i've just pinged thumper (and subsequently just did again :D ) so we'll know very soon
[04:38] <Red_HamsterX> I only had an hour today.
[04:38] <humphreybc> he's quite busy with the launchpad 10.02 rollout right now i believe
[04:38] <Red_HamsterX> It's 10.03, isn't it?
[04:39] <Red_HamsterX> Or does Launchpad not follow a YY.MM convention?
[04:40] <Red_HamsterX> But, yeah, HTTP is pretty trivial to set up.
[04:40] <Red_HamsterX> I've done things like that a large number of times.
[04:40] <Red_HamsterX> We'd just need to agree on credentials and tagging logic.
[04:40] <Red_HamsterX> And devise an export routine.
[04:41] <humphreybc> not sure
[04:41] <humphreybc> it's 10.02 though
[04:41] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: if enough people complain about the buttons on the left,  they will probably go on the right.  Just like how they were going to remove Open Office from the net book edition, but enough people complained, so it's stilli in.
[04:41] <humphreybc> okay well you guys know a lot more about this stuff than I :)
[04:43] <Red_HamsterX> ...Remove OOo from UNR? That sounds stupid. :(
[04:43] <Red_HamsterX> I'm glad that didn't happen.
[04:43] <Red_HamsterX> Or else this netbook would be sad..
[04:43] <Red_HamsterX> 'Cause I'd have to give it emotions.
[04:43] <humphreybc> ubuntu/canonical folk can make some pretty dumb decisions, believe me
[04:44] <sebsebseb> humphreybc: indeed @ that
[04:44] <humphreybc> but the theme thing is a bit different the UNE default apps
[05:39] <thumper> whazzup?
[05:39] <thumper> humphreybc: whazzup?
[05:40] <thumper> it is getting the kids into bed time
[05:41] <humphreybc> yo
[05:42] <humphreybc> kk you do that, i'll chat to you afetr
[05:42] <humphreybc> after*
[05:42] <humphreybc> thumper ^^
[05:49] <humphreybc> godbyk, how can i see the analytics on the site?
[06:05]  * IlyaHaykinson_ just asked the general council for creative commons about the license issue.
[06:05] <IlyaHaykinson_> we'll see what she says
[06:05] <IlyaHaykinson_> s/council/counsel
[06:15] <humphreybc> okay cool :)
[06:22] <wolter> well well, have the ubuntu interface designers become crazy?
[06:22] <wolter> the new 'light' theme looks like a cheap mac os x mockup
[06:23] <humphreybc> yes, they have.
[06:23] <humphreybc> wolter, we're working on it.
[06:23] <wolter> and yes humphreybc, I read your blog post :)
[06:23] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/my-thoughts-on-the-ubuntu-branding-refresh/
[06:23] <humphreybc> he he :)
[06:23] <wolter> hahaha
[06:23] <humphreybc> i'm skyping with someone about it now
[06:23] <wolter> thats what informed me, to be precise
[06:23] <wolter> nice
[06:23] <wolter> someone important?
[06:23] <wolter> tell him what people in the channels think (me ;)) haha
[06:24] <wolter> and that purple thing going on... i bet its to make it a bit more similar to mac
[06:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> humphreybc: i agree on the button placement thing for the UI refresh
[06:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> and hope that they reconsider.
[06:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> on the logo colors, though, i don't mind giving them some slack.
[06:29] <wolter> yeah, logo colors are ok, but the main desktop looks like hey, i'm a mac try me
[06:30] <humphreybc> guys, please add your comments to the article
[06:30] <humphreybc> it's going to be read by some high-up people with a bit of luck, and probably on the planet tomorrow
[06:30] <humphreybc> so more feedback on the article itself is good.
[06:32] <humphreybc> :)
[06:32] <wolter> ok
[06:39] <wolter> woow #2
[06:41] <wolter> anyway, goodbye people
[12:00] <humphreybc> godbyk. ping?
[14:04] <rudi> I'm back!
[18:28] <sebsebseb> Hi
[18:47]  * sebsebseb is back
[18:47] <sebsebseb> oh MenZa is in here
[19:24] <MenZa> sebsebseb: Where am I not? :)
[19:25] <sebsebseb> MenZa: Your new to this channel?
[19:25] <MenZa> sebsebseb: Aye.
[19:25] <sebsebseb> MenZa: That's a yes?
[19:25] <MenZa> sebsebseb: Aye.
[19:25] <MenZa> (Yes, yes it is)
[19:25] <MenZa> :)
[19:25] <sebsebseb> MenZa: Ok since when?
[19:26] <MenZa> As of earlier today.
[19:26] <sebsebseb> just found out about the manual or something?
[19:27] <sebsebseb> MenZa: ????
[19:27] <sebsebseb> welcome to the channel btw
[19:28] <Red_HamsterX> You never welcomed me. :(
[19:28]  * Red_HamsterX pouts.
[19:28] <sebsebseb> Red_HamsterX: I am only back here as of yesterday
[19:28] <Red_HamsterX> Fine, fine. Use logical reasoning. See if I care. =P
[19:29] <sebsebseb> !welcome | MenZa Red_HamsterX
[19:29] <manualbot> MenZa Red_HamsterX: Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-manual! Enjoy your stay!
[19:34] <sebsebseb> Red_HamsterX: You were already in here when I joined today, and I sort of know MenZa a little bit on IRC.
[19:38] <sebsebseb> MenZa: So just wondering how did you find out about the manual/channel or well both?
[22:59] <ubuntujenkins> hello all, hows it going?
[23:12]  * ubuntujenkins has the new lucid theme ;-)
[23:13] <sebsebseb> ubuntujenkins: I have the background, but about to install the theme
[23:13] <sebsebseb> now that the updates are there
[23:14] <sebsebseb> into my vm
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> not a huge fan of the background I will stick with my rotatating ones, they have rearagnged the maximize, minimise, close order of the buttons
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> I am on a real machine
[23:21]  * ubuntujenkins lucid has become a bit bugggy for me over the last few days
[23:24] <Red_HamsterX> If it weren't bug-prone, it'd be released by now.
[23:24] <Red_HamsterX> Or something.
[23:25] <ubuntujenkins> I know it was a passing comment
[23:26] <Red_HamsterX> No comments are allowed to pass!
[23:26] <ubuntujenkins> ]But what if I know the password?
[23:26] <Red_HamsterX> That's a password, not a passcomment.
[23:27] <Red_HamsterX> I need to get my Lucid box up this weekend.
[23:27] <Red_HamsterX> Any weird gotchas with the current build?
[23:27] <ubuntujenkins> have you got an nvidia card?
[23:27] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, but I don't really care about acceleration.
[23:27] <Red_HamsterX> I can use nv or vesa.
[23:28] <Red_HamsterX> (Unless the nvidia maintainers want help tracking down bugs)
[23:28] <ubuntujenkins> well you may have to log in twice. This is solved by either removing plymoth. or clicking your user pressing enter and then x crashes and then you can login with no problem. (It may be nvidia driver only)
[23:29] <ubuntujenkins> They are anoying and keep installing plymoth in updates
[23:31] <ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/528830 is the bug
[23:31] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 528830 in gdm "Must log in twice to gdm in Lucid (dup-of: 522692)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:31] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 522692 in plymouth "Pressing <Enter> key causes gdm to restart on first boot" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:35] <Red_HamsterX> I actually encountered something similar to 522692 with 9.10 today.
[23:35] <Red_HamsterX> But I haven't been able to reproduce it.
[23:35] <ubuntujenkins> Weird, my bug is very anoying unless you remeber to deliberatly crass x first
[23:54] <ubuntujenkins> Red


[17:51] <ianorlin> hmm even with the new broadband definition I can still get those kinds of speeds with a pci network card that was orignally in a windows 98 or ME computer