[04:17] <imakesense> Is there a distribution of Ubuntu that has good driver support for older systems? My laptop is 7 years old, and I'm worried that I might mess something up that might be a minor problem with the wireless driver. I'm reinstalling Lubuntu aftering getting the driver to completely disable my wifi connectivity.
[04:34] <RAOF> imakesense: Driver support is identical across all Ubuntus.
[05:40] <pitti> Good morning
[06:30] <didrocks> good morning
[06:34] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va ?
[06:35] <didrocks> pitti: ça va, il fait très beau contrairement à hier, et toi ?
[06:35] <pitti> didrocks: encore beaucoup du vent ici ..
[06:36] <pitti> didrocks: je me sense mieux qu'hier, merci !
[08:06] <Laney> oh hi!
[08:06] <didrocks> hey Laney, how's life?
[08:06] <Laney> first climbing again last night \m/
[08:06] <Laney> so pretty good
[08:06] <Laney> you?
[08:06] <didrocks> nice!
[08:07] <didrocks> nothing fancy, the weather was pretty bad
[08:07] <didrocks> but I have faith in today :)
[08:07] <didrocks> Laney: oh btw, didn't want to bother you on first day you came back, but I tried your g-t wrapper with my old weechat desktop
[08:07] <didrocks> didn't really work :/
[08:07] <Laney> can you share it?
[08:07] <Laney> orrrrrrrrrr fix it :)
[08:07] <didrocks> (can be the desktop file)
[08:08] <didrocks> Laney: I'm on other things, I only tried in guest, I have pastebinit yesterday, one sec
[08:09] <didrocks> Laney: ok, faster to reshare: http://paste.ubuntu.com/10710931/
[08:09] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts?
[08:11] <Laney> yo seb128
[08:11] <Laney> doing good
[08:11] <Laney> it's rrrrrrrrrreally windy!
[08:12] <seb128> same here
[08:12] <seb128> hate the wind
[08:22] <Laney> bah
[08:22] <Laney> why do i still use the pandaboard
[08:33] <Laney> didrocks: can you see what happens if you run that Exec line manually?
[08:33] <Laney> perhaps you don't have such a profile
[08:57] <seb128> Mirv, hey, I would like to backport a qtbase patch to vivid, can I do that (I see there are some silos with it already, but they don't seem ready to land)?
[08:59] <Mirv> seb128: yes, it's possible (especially if it's desktop/XCB only or such)
[08:59] <seb128> Mirv, it does, it's https://codereview.qt-project.org/#/c/109570/2//ALL,unified
[08:59] <Mirv> the silo 018 needs more patches
[08:59] <seb128> Mirv, fix to have proper themed cursors
[08:59] <seb128> I debugged that some week ago and suggested a patch upstream
[08:59] <Mirv> seb128: right, looks good. go ahead.
[09:00] <seb128> the patch was not right but it was enough to get somebody to fix it properly ;-)
[09:00] <seb128> Mirv, thanks
[09:00] <seb128> Mirv, should I just dput in a silo? or how does that work?
[09:00] <Mirv> seb128: qt is done via dput:s yes
[09:01] <Mirv> then testing + publish
[09:01] <seb128> k
[09:01] <seb128> so I use the gdoc to claim a silo/put a source upload in there
[09:01] <seb128> and then dput my change?
[09:01] <Mirv> yes
[09:01] <seb128> thanks!
[09:01] <Mirv> I think you can do without the -gles counterpart since it's desktop only. so just qtbase-opensource-src.
[09:01] <Mirv> no problem.
[09:02] <seb128> great
[09:43]  * Laney syncs .0 releases of some stuff
[09:44] <Laney> here comes the release!
[10:54] <Laney> oh what
[10:57] <didrocks> Laney: back from running, yeah, there isn't that profile anymore (but we got it before this g-t update)
[10:57] <didrocks> or at least, the issue was ignored
[10:57] <Laney> what issue?
[10:58] <Laney> unknown profiles?
[10:59] <didrocks> Laney: yep
[11:00] <Laney> ah yes
[11:00] <Laney> it seems it used the default one then
[11:00] <Laney> gah, why did they make so many things fatal :(
[11:00] <didrocks> maybe the wrapper should get the same behavior? (so that all backward compatibility is kept in the wrapper)
[11:00] <didrocks> if you can detect the installed profiles outside of g-t of course
[11:00] <Laney> sounds nasty
[11:01] <didrocks> well, less nasty than failing for people upgrading
[11:01] <Laney> false choice
[11:01] <Laney> the fix would be to put the old behaviour back in gnome-terminal
[11:01] <didrocks> do you think it's better? I would prefer to have all the compability layer a the same place
[11:02] <didrocks> at*
[11:02] <didrocks> but I guess it's your thing, so what you think is the best will do :)
[11:02] <Laney> rather than reimplementing the profile finding logic, yes
[11:03] <Laney> larsu: do you think that gnome-terminal upstream would take a patch to put the old behaviour back?
[11:03] <Laney> they made it bail out if the specified profile isn't found instead of using the default
[11:31] <larsu> Laney: sorry, lunch. When was this changed?
[11:31]  * larsu is still having trouble getting his patches accepted
[11:31] <Laney> is 3.6..3.14 a valid answer :)
[11:31] <Laney> ^?
[11:31] <larsu> haha
[11:31] <larsu> I'll have a look at git blame
[11:32] <larsu> maybe there's a bug linked
[11:38] <larsu> Laney: the check was added in this commit: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-terminal/commit/?id=f728cf6ce5e3668bbe94e7543b12889e8c936443
[11:38] <larsu> a long time ago...
[11:38] <larsu> looks like 3.7.1 or so
[11:39] <Laney> oh well, I'll just file it
[11:43] <larsu> Laney: want a patch?
[11:43] <larsu> in fact, I wonder if opening the default profle would be the correct thing to do..
[11:44] <Laney> it is if you want to keep compatibility
[11:44] <larsu> I'm arguing this was a bug before
[11:44] <larsu> and why would anyone rely on that anyway?
[11:46] <Laney> The whole point of this exercise is to keep old launchers working
[11:46] <Laney> Introducing new failure scenarios in commandline option handling is the opposite of that
[11:47] <Laney> I guess didrocks decided to delete this profile at some point and didn't update the launcher
[11:47] <didrocks> Laney: looking at the name of the profile, I guess it was rather a default one that we dropped
[11:48] <Laney> dunno
[11:48] <Laney> Either way it should be fatal
[11:48] <didrocks> I would have called it something with "foo" or "bar" :p
[11:49] <larsu> Laney: fair enough. I think we should still open an error dialog (or an info bar) in that case
[11:50] <Laney> that'd be possible
[11:50] <larsu> "no such profile 'foo'. [profile preferences button]"
[11:50] <didrocks> yeah, sounds like the best plan
[11:50] <Laney> it does this if you specify a command that doesn't exist
[11:50] <didrocks> but not dropping the user out of blue
[11:50] <larsu> didrocks: indeed. Not showing anything is wrong as well
[11:50] <didrocks> larsu: don't listen to me too much, I'm "through the wind" today :p
[11:51] <larsu> didrocks: so am I. Figuratively and literally
[11:51] <larsu> (just walked back from lunch with dholbach and it was very windy)
[11:51] <larsu> (and feel like shit today)
[11:51] <didrocks> you all say it's windy, it's clearly not here, I wonder when we'll get it
[11:51]  * didrocks hugs larsu
[11:51] <larsu> south of france doesn't get wind
[11:52]  * larsu hugs didrocks
[11:53] <didrocks> I don't know about the south of france, but lyon doesn't today for sure
[11:53]  * Laney looks at a map
[11:54] <mzanetti> hey, I've just upgraded my VM with unity8 in it
[11:54] <mzanetti> can't start any apps
[11:54] <mzanetti> and there's no ~/.cache/upstart/application-click....log files
[11:54] <mzanetti> probably because of the systemd migration
[11:55] <mzanetti> any hints on how I cat fix that?
[11:55] <larsu> mzanetti: got something in the journal? `journalctl`
[11:55] <mzanetti> kernel messages
[11:55] <didrocks> hum, the upstart logs should still be there, upstart is used in the user session
[11:56] <seb128> mzanetti, sudo systemctl enable cgmanager?
[11:56] <didrocks> seb128: didn't we fixed it?
[11:56] <mzanetti> seb128, ok, did that... what should that change?
[11:56] <mzanetti> do I need to restart the session?
[11:56] <seb128> mzanetti, no, that should work if cgmanager is running
[11:57] <seb128> didrocks, not for upgraders
[11:57] <didrocks> that would mean mzanetti didn't upgrade for a very long time :)
[11:57] <mzanetti> true
[11:57] <mzanetti> 2 months or so
[11:57] <seb128> well, could be another issue
[11:57] <seb128> but likely that
[11:57] <seb128> mzanetti, does it fix it?
[11:58] <mzanetti> can't get past the greeter any more
[11:58] <mzanetti> rebooting the VM
[12:01] <mzanetti> seb128, that did it, yes
[12:01] <mzanetti> thanks a lot!
[12:02] <seb128> mzanetti, yw!
[12:03] <mzanetti> If I had three wishes: 1) keyboard layout 2) no double greeter 3) GRID_UNIT_PX export depending on the scale factor setting
[12:03] <mzanetti> :D
[12:04] <Laney> didrocks: pushed gnome-terminal (no banner yet, for a later date) - please try
[12:04] <seb128> mzanetti, 1) and 2) are also on our wishlist (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unity8-desktop)
[12:04]  * Laney writes a status report & emails it ;-)
[12:05] <seb128> today is going to be a short meeting
[12:05] <mzanetti> hmm... does keyboard input work in apps for you guys?
[12:05] <seb128> seems like most people prefer to enjoy the windy weather than to join the meeting :-(
[12:05] <seb128> mzanetti, wfm
[12:05] <Laney> considering whether to bike to the bike meeting in the wind or get the bus :p
[12:05] <didrocks> Laney: please include an unicode char, I was only able to cover you once on this :p
[12:05] <Laney> oh man
[12:05] <Laney> you did?
[12:06] <didrocks> of course!
[12:06] <Laney> :D
[12:06] <seb128> Laney going to be late for the meeting *again*
[12:06] <seb128> :-)
[12:06] <didrocks> Laney: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/24/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t15:42
[12:07] <Laney> your irish roots showing through
[12:07] <didrocks> Laney: seems you are the only one who got the reference :)
[12:10] <Laney> ;)
[12:10] <seb128> it's funny, googling for "☘" returns 0 result
[12:10] <seb128> you are unknown to google!
[12:12] <Laney> right
[12:12] <didrocks> Laney: is the addition of dh-exec is wanted?
[12:12] <Laney> ttyl!
[12:12] <didrocks> (not urgent)
[12:12] <Laney> ah no
[12:12] <Laney> I was using that initially
[12:12] <Laney> good stuff
[12:12] <didrocks> I like it as well
[12:12] <didrocks> Laney: no worry, removing and pushing
[12:12] <didrocks> go ;)
[12:13] <Laney> i did it :P
[12:13] <didrocks> k ;)
[12:13] <Laney> it is cool to be able to rename files when installing them
[12:13] <Laney> I forgot why I couldn't use it here
[12:13] <Laney> perhaps because cdbs
[12:13] <Laney> bye!
[12:13] <didrocks> can be, more integrated with dh7 anyway
[12:13] <didrocks> see you!
[12:26] <didrocks> Laney: ok, so, the profile is now fallbacked to default and weechat is launched. However, the matching isn't correct (it matches to a g-t window)
[13:08] <seb128> tedg, hey, could you comment on bug #1436351?
[13:09] <seb128> tedg, seems it's fixed in vivid, but unsure with what change of that's easy to backport to rtm, also if that's correct design wise to have the same icon for silent mode and muted
[13:10] <seb128> bug #1367818 seems similar and waiting from input to mpt it seems
[13:10] <tedg> seb128, Yeah, we could, but don't you think we'll just pick up vivid here in a few weeks...
[13:10] <seb128> tedg, can you confirm at least that what it does is what the design suggest and the bug got fixed in vivid?
[13:10] <tedg> Yes
[13:11] <tedg> BTW, I was talking to the designers about it in another channel, so let me finish that conversation first :-)
[13:11] <seb128> thanks
[13:11] <seb128> lol
[13:11] <mpt> Whether a phone is in Silent Mode, and whether its volume is zero, are two different things
[13:11] <mpt> It still plays music and alarms in Silent Mode
[13:12] <larsu> “silent mode” doesn't sound like it should play alarms..
[13:13] <seb128> yeah, I would say it shouldn't play anything which is not trigger by an user action
[13:13]  * larsu reads the spec
[13:13] <seb128> because that's the thing you turn on when at a spectacle or movie
[13:13] <larsu> hm, interesting concept. Very confusing though
[13:13] <seb128> larsu, oh?
[13:14] <larsu> seb128: the name is confusing, and the fact that there's two different concepts of the phone being silent/mute
[13:14] <seb128> larsu, is there an explanation of what those modes are supposed to be?
[13:14] <seb128> what "silent mode" is for exactly?
[13:15] <larsu> yes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Sound#Silent_Mode
[13:15] <seb128> like should I use silent mode or mute my phone when I'm at a movie?
[13:15] <seb128> thanks
[13:15] <larsu> mute
[13:15] <larsu> but this is exactly what I mean — it's confusing
[13:15] <larsu> imho, mute ought to be enough
[13:16] <seb128> well, mute is also muting your morning alarm clock though?
[13:17] <mpt> Yes, it would be
[13:17]  * mpt never uses mute
[13:18] <seb128> so if you at at a movie and have an calender invite to an hangout you forgot to delete your phone is playing sound?
[13:18] <seb128> it's a bit embarassing :-)
[13:18]  * seb128 wants his phone to vibrate in such cases
[13:18] <larsu> seb128: you can't have both this and the morning alarm clock...
[13:18] <larsu> unless you treat alarms specially
[13:19]  * didrocks toss in "priority mode"
[13:19] <larsu> (which I would)
[13:19] <mpt> seb128, that wouldn’t be an alarm, that would be a calendar notification
[13:19] <larsu> didrocks: ya, this is where the fun starts
[13:19] <seb128> right
[13:19] <mpt> bug 1410874
[13:19] <larsu> I think android is starting to get it very right
[13:19] <seb128> by doing what?
[13:19] <larsu> and it doesn't need two different mute concepts
[13:20]  * didrocks likes what android does as well
[13:20] <seb128> what are they doing?
[13:20] <larsu> seb128: there's just volume up/down. All the way down is mute and vibrate
[13:21] <larsu> alarms are not affected by mute
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/use-androids-priority-mode-so-notifications-dont-wake-y-1681095117 seems to be a good explanation
[13:21] <seb128> didrocks, I was reading that
[13:21] <mpt> larsu, so how quiet does the volume have to be before alarms stop being affected by it?
[13:21] <larsu> when changing volume, you have choices NONE PRIORITY ALL
[13:21] <seb128> seems complex/things need to be configured
[13:21] <larsu> mpt: they are never affected
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: not for going to the cinema
[13:21] <didrocks> you just push volume down
[13:22] <mpt> You can’t change the volume of alarms at all?
[13:22] <didrocks> "None" -> 2h
[13:22] <larsu> mpt: there's a separate alarm volume you can change in the settings
[13:22] <didrocks> and you are done
[13:22] <mpt> heh
[13:22] <mpt> Well, that’s one way of doing it
[13:22] <didrocks> seb128: you need to configure in some case, like mine is going in priority mode from 22h to 7h
[13:22] <larsu> mpt: it's the simplest solution I have ever seen that covers all the cases
[13:22] <didrocks> clearly
[13:23] <mpt> Oh, so Priority Mode is Android’s equivalent to Do Not Disturb
[13:23] <didrocks> you can then really tweak it for particular case
[13:23] <seb128> didrocks, seems as tedious as the current mode
[13:23] <seb128> especially if you don't go to bed at regular hours
[13:23] <seb128> like some days I go to bed at 22:30 some days at 1am
[13:23] <seb128> so I start the dnd mode manually anyway
[13:23] <larsu> seb128: I don't even bother with that, just set it manually at night when I set my alarm
[13:23] <didrocks> seb128: you still have your phone showing the notification, just not buzzing/biping
[13:24] <seb128> didrocks, right, but I want sound until I go to bed
[13:24] <didrocks> well, do then what larsu does
[13:24] <seb128> otherwise the phone is on the other side of the room and I miss calls
[13:24] <seb128> well, I don't set my alarm at nights
[13:24] <larsu> yeah, I'm in the same boat as seb128. Going to bed very irregularly
[13:24] <larsu> and need notifications until I do
[13:24] <didrocks> "need"
[13:24] <larsu> s/need/want
[13:24] <seb128> want
[13:24] <didrocks> ;)
[13:25] <didrocks> I don't care if I don't have notifications biping/buzzing, i'm just watching my phone before going to bed to see I didn't miss anything
[13:25] <larsu> and that's fine
[13:25] <didrocks> and I have a white list of people that are still ringing, even in priority mode
[13:25] <seb128> yeah, everybody has different use
[13:25] <didrocks> right, and I think what they have cover those
[13:25] <didrocks> contrary to ours
[13:25] <seb128> I think the google one is still tedious
[13:26] <larsu> right, my real gripe here was with mpt's two different concepts that are named the same
[13:26] <seb128> not discussing it's better than we do (ours is basic)
[13:26] <didrocks> ours don't cover those cases
[13:26] <larsu> "silent mode" and "mute" — couldn't tell you which is which
[13:26] <seb128> right
[13:26] <seb128> our is less good
[13:26] <seb128> but I don't find the google one great either
[13:26] <seb128> or at least it's still tedious
[13:26] <didrocks> seb128: my bet is that I think most of people just use the "None" -> X hours
[13:26] <seb128> yeah, could be
[13:27] <didrocks> I wouldn't do that every evening though
[13:27] <larsu> X hours is *perfect* for going to the movies or some event
[13:27] <didrocks> seems like larsu can:)
[13:27] <larsu> I always forget to reenable sound after such a thing
[13:27] <didrocks> same for me
[13:27] <seb128> same here
[13:27] <mpt> larsu, per spec, the word “Mute” only ever appears on the PC, while “Silent Mode” only ever appears on the phone
[13:27] <larsu> didrocks: I have a habit of setting an alarm every evening anyway
[13:27] <didrocks> larsu: crazy dude! :)
[13:28] <seb128> well, you sort of do if you go to bed to changing hours and want to adjust your wake up time in consequence
[13:29] <mpt> larsu, I don’t know how I’m going to conv3rgeNCE!!!1 them yet, but it’s not the case that there are two similarly-named things in the UI on any device :-)
[13:29] <larsu> mpt: oh, I was reading the section *above* "Phone", which mentions "Mute (not to be confused with Silent Mode)"
[13:29] <larsu> mute on the PC is kind of silly anyway
[13:29]  * larsu would be fine if we dropped it
[13:29] <larsu> but then, many laptops have hardware mute keys
[13:30] <mpt> Yeah, it exists half as a bit of padding to stop the volume slider from being first menu item
[13:30] <larsu> which behave differently from the way the spec describes
[13:30] <larsu> mpt: haha, cool
[13:30] <mpt> larsu, so fix bug 552920 and I’ll remove it ;-)
[13:34] <larsu> mpt: fixing it in gtk won't be enough, because unity's panel doesn't use gtk's menu bar (it pops open the menus itself)
[13:35] <larsu> mpt: also, we're moving away from traditional menus and unity7
[13:35] <mpt> That’s why it’s also open on Unity, presumably
[13:35] <larsu> I guess?!
[13:35] <larsu> doesn't make sense (and we don't have the time) to put effort into that
[13:35] <mpt> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[13:35] <larsu> and I'm pretty sure unity8 won't have menus for indicators ;)
[13:36] <larsu> mpt: we could go all gnome shell and have one system menu :P
[13:36]  * larsu know you love that
[13:36] <mpt> ONE GIANT SCROLLING MENU
[13:36] <mpt> HORIZONTALLY SCROLLING
[13:37] <larsu> yes please!
[13:37] <larsu> scrolling is so much fun
[13:37] <larsu> we could have some cool scrollbars even
[13:41]  * larsu has the feeling that was one troll too many…
[13:43] <mpt> It’ll be like Netscape 3 for Unix, where each menu had its own scrollbar
[14:02] <desrt> morning peeps
[14:02] <didrocks> morning desrt!
[14:02] <desrt> happy monday
[14:03] <didrocks> happy *your* monday :)
[14:03] <desrt> why, thank you :)
[14:03] <didrocks> larsu: seb128: did you notice a slower boot since systemd -5ubuntu1?
[14:03] <desrt> oh.  wait.
[14:03] <desrt> it's tuesday!
[14:04] <desrt> somehow i had it in my head that it's monday, while at the same time knowing that today is meeting day
[14:04] <desrt> that's interesting
[14:04] <seb128> didrocks, I didn't pay attention much, my boot has been slower for some weeks but I didn't sit down to investigate yet
[14:04] <desrt> so, happy tuesday :)
[14:04] <seb128> desrt, hey, happy tuesday ;-)
[14:05] <didrocks> desrt: hence the "your", I'm not willing to disturb you with such details :p
[14:05] <desrt> didrocks: all makes sense now.  thanks for the polite approach :)
[14:05] <didrocks> seb128: autopkgtests failing on -5ubuntu1 FTW btw \o/
[14:05] <didrocks> ;)
[14:05] <larsu> didrocks: nope
[14:05] <seb128> didrocks, what's the issue?
[14:05] <seb128> didrocks, just on performance regression?
[14:05] <larsu> hi desrt!
[14:05] <didrocks> fsck is running twice, plymouth starts later
[14:05] <seb128> do we have stable metrics for those?
[14:06] <desrt> hi seb, larsu :)
[14:06] <didrocks> (and I noticed as I'm debugging some of my autopkgtests expecting to kill plymouth failing)
[14:07] <didrocks> so, more a side-effect actually, but I clearly have a 30s slower boot with -5ubuntu1 on autopkgtests
[14:07] <didrocks> (goind from 2s to 32s)
[14:07] <didrocks> going*
[14:08] <seb128> didrocks, how come it migrated to release if autopkgtests are failing btw?
[14:08] <didrocks> not sure, maybe it's been overriden?
[14:09] <didrocks> we have one failing test on i386 for quite some time (only on the infra)
[14:09] <didrocks> but this failure is on both amd64 and i386
[14:09] <seb128> pitti, ^ did you override failing systemd tests?
[14:10] <didrocks> seb128: pitti warned me about the failing test, so I guess he is already aware
[14:10] <seb128> k
[14:10] <didrocks> (and quite busy AFAIK)
[14:10] <seb128> didrocks, I'm going to do a bootchart next time I reboot
[14:11] <didrocks> seb128: comparing with -4ubuntu10 would be interesting
[14:11] <didrocks> but anyway, we need to find out why this happens
[14:11]  * didrocks logs at his system logs now
[14:13] <pitti> seb128: I think adam did
[14:13] <seb128> k
[14:48] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: desktop meeting in 1/2 an hour? I will be around.
[14:53] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, yes
[14:58] <desrt> i will also be around!
[15:30] <seb128> attente, desrt, didrocks, Laney?, larsu, qengho, Sweet5hark1, tkamppeter, hey, it's meeting time :-)
[15:30] <qengho> Hey hey
[15:30] <didrocks> hey!
[15:30] <seb128> let's get started
[15:30] <seb128> attente, hey
[15:31] <larsu> hey!
[15:31] <attente> seb128: hey, not much from me
[15:31] <attente> debugging for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1431811
[15:31] <attente> gnome-terminal stopped working under mir proving server, it's blocking progress on getting ibus working under mir
[15:31] <seb128> did we get any mir update recently?
[15:31] <seb128> or is that trunk?
[15:31] <seb128> did you talk to the mir team about it?
[15:31] <attente> i'm running from trunk
[15:32] <attente> looking at it seems to be a dbus issue of some sort
[15:32] <seb128> hum, k
[15:32] <seb128> bisect time? ;-)
[15:33] <seb128> I commented on the mr for the bug you just mentioned, please split the region panel warning fixes in another changeset
[15:33] <attente> seb128: sure
[15:33] <seb128> sorry for not noticing that before, seems like u-c-c mps don't always reach me or Laney
[15:33] <seb128> don't hesitate IRC pinging for those :-)
[15:33] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:33] <attente> seb128: sorry, i should ping it next time
[15:33] <seb128> no worry, it's not that long either :-)
[15:34] <seb128> ups, forgot something
[15:34] <seb128> #startmeeting
[15:34] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Mar 31 15:34:06 2015 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:34] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:34] <seb128> bah, forgot we had new techs nowadays :p
[15:34] <seb128> #topic attente
[15:34] <attente> lol
[15:34] <seb128> see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/31/%23ubuntu-desktop.html log for those reading minutes ;-)
[15:34] <seb128> #topic desrt
[15:34] <seb128> desrt, hey
[15:34] <desrt> hey.  what's up?
[15:35] <desrt> not a lot to report this week in terms of bullet points, but i've been working on a big one:
[15:35] <desrt> while i have the file monitor code fresh in my brain, i'm trying to slay the "periodic polling on missing files" thing
[15:35] <desrt> i made some pretty good progress on that over the weekend but it's still going to be a substantial slog
[15:35] <desrt> not much else to report
[15:36] <seb128> desrt, did any of the backtrace/e.u.c reports I pinged you about looked concerning or as potential glib issues to you?
[15:37] <seb128> desrt, I'm asking because several of those component didn't change since previous cycle and the reports started this cycle and are in glib code
[15:37] <desrt> i took some time looking at those.  one of them seemed semi-legitimate and i made a patch to downgrade the assert to a warning (which i forgot to commit until just now, thanks for the reminder)
[15:37] <desrt> the other two just looked like gvariant refcounting issues
[15:37] <seb128> thanks
[15:37] <desrt> if you can get me more information about those (cores, etc) i'd be happy to look
[15:37] <desrt> but otherwise it's pretty impossible :/
[15:38] <seb128> k, fair enough
[15:38] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[15:38] <seb128> #topic didrocks
[15:38] <seb128> didrocks, hey
[15:38] <didrocks> hey!
[15:38] <didrocks> Ubuntu Make:
[15:38] <didrocks> - spent some time triaging bug reports and testing various user's cases.
[15:38] <didrocks> Systemd:
[15:38] <didrocks> - did some bug triaging/investigation until Martin was back
[15:38] <didrocks> - backported some upstream systemd patches for beta
[15:38] <didrocks> - fixed the tmp.mount erratic behavior
[15:38] <didrocks> - fix an hanging issue due to the newest way of detecting mount point for machine-commit-id and sysfs
[15:38] <didrocks> - handling some feedbacks/emails/bug reports due to upstart-sysv change (third parties building images without using ubuntu-minimal, listing packages manually with *aptitude*)…
[15:38] <didrocks> Misc:
[15:38] <didrocks> - gave a talk at jdll during the week-end, performed there multiple installatiosn
[15:38] <didrocks> - check Laney's gnome-terminal wrapper (but seems some more work is needed for full backward compatbility, even if it's already a great enhancement!)
[15:38] <didrocks> - snappy doc reading + experimentations
[15:38] <didrocks> .
[15:39] <seb128> no nice utf8 char this week? ;-)
[15:39] <larsu> ·
[15:39] <didrocks> seb128: I hope Laney sent you one this time :)
[15:39] <Sweet5hark1> didrocks: oh, playing with snappy too?
[15:40] <larsu> seb128: '.' is utf8, too
[15:40] <didrocks> Sweet5hark1: yeah (see last week report, also proposed some patches already ;))
[15:40] <seb128> larsu, lol, good point ;-)
[15:41] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[15:41] <Sweet5hark1> larsu: utf-8 even has multiple different . all looking alike being utf-8
[15:41] <didrocks> yw!
[15:41] <seb128> Laney seems not back yet, so let's move him to the end and see if he joins us, I've his summary otherwise
[15:41] <seb128> #topic larsu
[15:41] <seb128> larsu, hey
[15:41] <larsu> hi!
[15:41] <larsu> not been very productive this last week (not feeling to well)
[15:42] <larsu> finished up the thin progress bar thing
[15:42] <larsu> thanks Laney for backporting the patch
[15:42] <larsu> mucked around with a couple of icon problems (zooming in nautilus, alt-tab and launcher in unity)
[15:42] <larsu> in short: humanity is doing it wrong
[15:43] <larsu> I started fixing that, but postponed to next cycle because it turned out to be a huge diff
[15:43] <larsu> and just hacked it a bit by setting MaxSize on most scalable folders
[15:43] <larsu> which is working nicely
[15:43] <larsu> I also investigated what chpe is doing to my terminal patches
[15:44] <larsu> because he's not communicating, just applying patches randomly and not marking them as committed
[15:44] <larsu> and putting blocker and depends bugs up
[15:44] <larsu> frustrating...
[15:44] <larsu> also the usual MR and bug stuff
[15:44] <seb128> :-/
[15:44] <larsu> ×
[15:45] <seb128> larsu, danke
[15:45] <Laney> didrocks: separate issue, larsu was working on that stuff
[15:45] <Laney> HI!
[15:45] <seb128> hey Laney
[15:45] <seb128> Laney, ready if it's your turn?
[15:45] <Laney> one second
[15:46] <larsu> over
[15:46] <attente> terminator for default...
[15:46] <Laney> <<< EOF
[15:46] <Laney> my laptop failed to resume (systemd ...) so I have to get re-stated
[15:46] <didrocks> attente: don't even try :p
[15:46] <seb128> Laney, k, let's do qengho first then
[15:47] <attente> :P
[15:47] <seb128> #topic qengho
[15:47] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:47] <qengho> - Done: Packaged Chromium as Snap. Verdict: Won't work for now. Needs setuid support.
[15:47] <qengho> - In-progress: Getting Chromium updated in precise again.
[15:47] <qengho> EOF
[15:47] <Laney> ok!
[15:48] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> qengho, did you give some feedback back to the snap team about chromium as snap?
[15:49] <qengho> I ran it thorough jdstrand to consider implications first.
[15:50] <seb128> k
[15:50] <seb128> would be nice to have that feedback on some mailing list maybe
[15:51] <seb128> -devel?
[15:51] <qengho> Will do.
[15:51] <seb128> could be useful to others
[15:51] <seb128> qengho, thanks
[15:51] <seb128> #topic Laney
[15:51] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:51] <Laney> hi thar
[15:51] <Laney> • Short week, on holidays until Friday
[15:51] <Laney> • Updates: gtk glib glib-networking librsvg
[15:51] <Laney> • Fix gnome-terminal wrapper to cope with non existing profiles, fwd upstream
[15:51] <Laney> • Discussions about upload rights to CI train PPAs
[15:51] <Laney> • Some queue reviews since we're now in freeze
[15:51] <Laney> ❣
[15:52] <larsu> ♥
[15:52] <larsu> of course compose sequence for a heart is <3
[15:52] <seb128> thanks Laney
[15:53] <seb128> #topic Sweet5hark1
[15:53] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, hey
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + libreoffice_4.4.1-0ubuntu2 for vivid-proposed: FFe for breeze icons
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + merged Steves l10n fix, added README about generated ./debian
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + updated PPA to libreoffice_4.4.2_rc2-1 with new upstream rc
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + got myself a booting snappy VM and looked around a bit for porting LibreOffice (aka build-dep list walking)
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + started some GSOC student application review
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> + continued refactoring work upstream
[15:53] <Sweet5hark1> EOF
[15:54] <Sweet5hark1> proudly plain ASCII only today!
[15:54] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, same for you, snappy feedback shared would be nice I guess
[15:55] <seb128> didrocks, ^ that applies to you as well
[15:55] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: sure, sure. still collecting a list of gos and no-gos.
[15:56] <seb128> Sweet5hark1, thanks
[15:56] <didrocks> seb128: well, I'm sending my feedback as upstream patches for now
[15:56] <seb128> #topic tkamppeter
[15:56] <didrocks> (which got merged)
[15:57] <seb128> didrocks, k, I was speaking more about faq or useful tips, dunno if we have a wiki or something, so everybody doesn't hit the same issue when looking at their first package
[15:57] <seb128> tkamppeter, there?
[15:58] <seb128> seems not
[15:58] <seb128> he sent me an email after the start of the meeting though, weird
[15:58] <seb128> anyway, his summary
[15:58] <seb128> - cups-filters: Investigations on cups-browsed crash
[15:58] <seb128> - Organizational stuff for OpenPrinting Summit and Desktop Sprint
[15:58] <seb128> - Bugs.
[15:58] <Laney> haha
[15:58] <seb128> thanks tkamppeter ;-)
[15:59] <seb128> #topic seb128
[15:59] <seb128> • unity-settings-daemon, wrap labels from the mount helper dialog
[15:59] <seb128> • looked a bit at getting gtk2/3 out of the phone image
[15:59] <seb128> • looked at whoopsie configuration not working correctly on touch
[15:59] <seb128> • lot of bugs reviews (launchpad, e.u.c) before vivid
[15:59] <seb128> • backported some gedit bugfixes to vivid
[15:59] <seb128> • ubuntu-themes landing for Laney&larsu
[15:59] <seb128> • changes to unity&nautilus for nautilus .desktop rename
[15:59] <seb128> • tested/sponsored humanity-icon-theme fix from Lars for pixelized icons in unity switchter
[15:59] <seb128> • tested vivid beta iso of desktop and desktop-next
[15:59] <seb128> • backported qt5 fix for incorrectly themed cursor
[15:59] <seb128> • u-s-s
[15:59] <seb128> ∘ cleaned up the merges list
[15:59] <seb128> ∘ reviewed change to make disk computation correct on arale
[15:59] <seb128> ...
[15:59] <seb128> #topic other topics?
[16:00] <seb128> did I forget anyone? any other topic?
[16:00] <didrocks> seb128: did you send the MP for the whoopsie configuration after our discussion? I didn't see the MP?
[16:00] <Laney> sooooooooo do we have an xorg person atm? :)
[16:00] <seb128> Laney, you?
[16:00] <FJKong> hey seb128
[16:00]  * Laney appears to have no two finger scrolling
[16:00] <seb128> oh, ups
[16:00] <Laney> debug it please seb128!
[16:00] <seb128> #topic FJKong
[16:00] <Laney> ha
[16:00] <seb128> FJKong, sorry, forgot you and happyaron
[16:00] <seb128> your turn
[16:00] <FJKong> not much but mine is
[16:00] <FJKong> some topic on CCN meeting:
[16:00] <FJKong> some new feature for next release sogou IM, Wubi and shuangpin input engine.
[16:00] <FJKong> animation skin support.
[16:00] <FJKong> KV database test for pinyin converting.
[16:00] <FJKong> sponsor for localization with aron.
[16:00] <FJKong> attend ubuntu scope training for University at Changsha.
[16:01] <FJKong> EOF<
[16:01] <happyaron> I'm here
[16:01] <FJKong> ha
[16:01] <seb128> FJKong, thanks
[16:01] <seb128> #topic happyaron
[16:01] <seb128> happyaron, hey
[16:02] <happyaron> atteded CCN meeting with FJKong
[16:02] <happyaron> bug/task updates for Ubuntu Kylin beta2
[16:03] <happyaron> Sogou meetings for phone
[16:03] <happyaron> fcitx default (zh_*) for Kubuntu and other flavors
[16:04] <happyaron> over
[16:04] <didrocks> happyaron: did you see my ping yesterday about the cangjie ibus module maintainer happy to give a hand if needed to get his lib shared with fcitx (better HK support, more up to date data apparently)?
[16:04] <attente> happyaron: hey, are you going to do a new release of fcitx-qimpanel?
[16:05] <happyaron> didrocks: yes, and ypwong (a16g) is maintaining libcangjie for Debian/Ubuntu, I want to talk to him to follow up with upstream together, but he's on leave today
[16:05] <happyaron> attente: yes
[16:05] <didrocks> happyaron: good! upstream lives 10 minutes from me, so if you need anything… ;)
[16:06] <seb128> happyaron, did you hear about any work to make sogou work out of the box?
[16:06] <happyaron> I just started to handle more parts in the cooperation with NUDT, so I spent some time on doing glue communications
[16:06] <seb128> happyaron, I've been asked about that, which is new to me if true :-)
[16:07] <happyaron> seb128: yes, and I'll write email about the result from CCN meeting
[16:07] <seb128> happyaron, is that targetted for vivid?!
[16:07] <happyaron> nope
[16:07] <seb128> k, good
[16:07] <seb128> thanks
[16:07] <seb128> happyaron, can give me the zest of what is wanted?
[16:08] <seb128> would that be in ubiquity like for codecs?
[16:08] <happyaron> briefly, 1) inclusion in archive (restricted or partner, depends) 2) suggestion on ubiquity, like the mp3 stuff 3) possibly do some locale/timesome-specific notifications/suggestions, that recommend the user to install it when restricted/partner is enabled.
[16:10] <seb128> happyaron, thanks
[16:10] <seb128> #topic other topics?
[16:10] <seb128> k, I don't have the summary from robert_ancell or TheMuso
[16:10] <happyaron> and for more, there are some thing about pingbacks or popcon-like stuff, giving a checkbox at installation time and in privacy settings, and possibly have the checkbox checked when certain requirements is satisfied
[16:11] <didrocks> seb128: I guess you missed my question for you on whoopsie/touch MP
[16:11] <happyaron> (i.e. the preset settings, and users are able to opt-out/in at any time)
[16:11] <seb128> didrocks, I added https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff to bug #1437633 and Laney suggested a rtm version on https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201678101/lxc-android-config_0.208rtm10.debdiff
[16:11] <seb128> didrocks, no, didn't :-)
[16:12] <didrocks> seb128: hum, empty .override?
[16:12] <didrocks> seb128: so, it's disabled by default?
[16:12] <Laney> no
[16:12] <Laney> empty override means no override
[16:12] <seb128> didrocks, no, the override is doing nothing
[16:12] <didrocks> it is if you ship an empty .override file
[16:12] <Laney> no
[16:12] <didrocks> Laney: no
[16:12] <Laney> NO!
[16:12] <didrocks> still no :p
[16:13] <Laney> the maintainer said so yesterday
[16:13] <didrocks> hum
[16:13] <seb128> didrocks, we discussed it yesterday, jodh confirmed it does nothing
[16:13] <seb128> on this channel
[16:13] <didrocks> interesting, that either changed or all the tests that we did until a couple of months were wrong
[16:13] <seb128> but I didn't test to be honest
[16:13] <didrocks> that's basically how we disable upstart jobs
[16:13] <didrocks> ship an empty .override
[16:13] <Laney> you probably put "manual" in an override file
[16:13] <seb128> are you sure you didn't have a "manual" line in those?
[16:13] <didrocks> Laney: no, completely empty in the tests
[16:13] <seb128> hum :-/
[16:14] <seb128> k, need testing then
[16:14] <didrocks> yeah
[16:14] <didrocks> and in that case, we would have some stuff to patch either way
[16:14] <didrocks> (in some postinst script)
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, thanks for pointing it out
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, for the record, http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/03/30/%23ubuntu-desktop.html#t16:41
[16:14] <seb128> "jodh	seb128: ogra is right - the empty override would be parsed and found to contain no stanzas, so would be a NOP"
[16:15] <didrocks> seems the cookbook agrees with this
[16:15] <didrocks> I wonder why we did it all wrong in multiple places
[16:15] <seb128> :-/
[16:15] <didrocks> I guess I know what I need to do tomorrow then :p
[16:15] <seb128> maybe there is a bug in upstart
[16:15] <didrocks> yeah
[16:15] <seb128> and it's not acting as it should?
[16:15] <Laney> woah
[16:15] <didrocks> that or the tests were wrong
[16:15] <Laney> i just tested, it does indeed disable it
[16:15] <seb128> woah sounds like Laney tested and confirmed it's buggy :p
[16:15] <didrocks> Laney: ahah, see!
[16:15] <seb128> hehe
[16:15] <Laney> do this: touch ~/.config/upstart/unity7.conf
[16:15] <Laney> and restart session
[16:15] <seb128> ok, let's wrap the meeting and continue that discussion
[16:16] <didrocks> THIS MEANS: I can type and test \o/
[16:16] <didrocks> not that crazy
[16:16] <didrocks> yeah ;)
[16:16] <seb128> thanks everyone
[16:16] <didrocks> thanks
[16:16] <seb128> #endmeeting
[16:16] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Mar 31 16:16:11 2015 UTC.
[16:16] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2015/ubuntu-desktop.2015-03-31-15.34.moin.txt
[16:16] <Laney> so srsly though
[16:16] <Laney> tap to click is broken
[16:16] <Laney> who to tell :(
[16:16] <seb128> Laney, upstream? #ubuntu-x? email mlankhosrt? ;-)
[16:16] <Laney> should try an old kernel I guess
[16:16] <Laney> hrhr
[16:17] <seb128> Laney, joke aside we don't have anyone dedicated to xorg, robert_ancell is doing xmir and might know about things, but I doubt he knows much about input and synaptic
[16:17] <seb128> maybe tjaalton can help you?
[16:17] <seb128> but yeah, trying to downgrade kernel and drivers would be a first step I guess
[16:19] <didrocks> seb128: ok, you got the discussion after I left it seems
[16:19] <didrocks> seriously, we need to get the final word on this, I'll retest tomorrow
[16:19] <didrocks> as either way, there is some work involved
[16:19] <seb128> jodh, ^ what's going on there? empty override disable jobs it seems?
[16:19] <seb128> didrocks, right
[16:20] <didrocks> jodh: that was what we did in the upstart -> systemd transition, and I'm pretty sure the tests showed that (seems like Laney did a quick test and confirms)
[16:20] <didrocks> and we have multiple postinst doing this
[16:21] <popey> Anyone reported terrible network performance on vivid recently?
[16:21] <didrocks> popey: nothing remarkable at least here
[16:21] <popey> Today my laptop is all over the place, sometimes 5Mb/s, sometimes 100Mb/s
[16:21] <ogra_> didrocks, what Laney confirmed above is an empty new user job, not an override file
[16:21] <popey> it's fine between machines on my lan, but running speedtest I get wild results
[16:21] <Laney> ogra_: different filename?
[16:21] <popey> other machines on my network are fine, it's only my laptop
[16:22] <ogra_> Laney, right ... try with .override
[16:22] <Laney> ok, phew!
[16:22] <didrocks> ogra_: works the same way for upstart session?
[16:22] <ogra_> didrocks, no idea ...
[16:22] <Laney> oh yeah this is good now
[16:22] <Laney> allllllll good
[16:23] <ogra_> all i know is that you need the empty file if you want to make it writable :)
[16:23] <didrocks> good thing we still have an upstart boot option :)
[16:23] <ogra_> we cant bind mountnon existing files ;)
[16:23] <ogra_> (add appropriate spacing above)
[16:23] <didrocks> ogra_: which was why I was tracking that patch, based on my experience that empty .overrides did this
[16:24] <ogra_> afaik only if you add manual to the
[16:24] <ogra_> m
[16:24] <didrocks> let's confirm on upstart system, and then fix postinst
[16:24] <didrocks> ogra_: weird that we would have done that and tested happily a bunch of times for the transition
[16:24] <ogra_> well, i never validated what i think :)
[16:25] <ogra_> and i never had to ship an empty upstart file
[16:25] <didrocks> update-rc.d adds the "disable" content
[16:25] <didrocks> oh, I know why our .postinst can work…
[16:25] <ogra_> but that just a .override acts as no-op is something that keybuk already told me many years ago
[16:25] <didrocks> we ship the empty .override
[16:25] <didrocks> it indicates for us "disable"
[16:25] <didrocks> and then, the postinst recall update-rc.d disable…
[16:26] <ogra_> no, it indicates that it overrides something
[16:26] <didrocks> which would add "manual"
[16:26] <ogra_> you can just put a different "start on fo" in there
[16:26] <didrocks> ogra_: not in the systemd postinst logic
[16:26] <didrocks> ogra_: I'm talking about how we approached it :)
[16:26] <didrocks> but then, the second call to update-rc.d "fixed" it
[16:26] <didrocks> and that's how we maybe never saw our supposition was wrong
[16:26] <ogra_> ah
[16:27] <didrocks> ok, anyway, testing that first thing tomorrow, if so, then, going over our postinsts to fix it
[16:29] <jodh> didrocks: where are these empty .override files being created?
[16:29] <didrocks> jodh: preinst, postinst, ship by defaults in various packages
[16:29] <jodh> didrocks: what directory are they being created in
[16:29] <didrocks> jodh: /etc/init/
[16:31] <jodh> didrocks: I'll test locally but that should not disable the job. Try creating a ~/.config/upstart/foo.{conf,override} pair and seeing the behaviour.
[16:32] <didrocks> jodh: let me confirm tomorrow with rebooting with init as upstart. I've an idea why we didn't detect our supposition was wrong (as we rerun invoke-rc.d disable if we detected a .override file)
[16:32] <didrocks> so that call is marking "manual", and the job is really disable
[16:33] <didrocks> still not the right logic, so better to fix it
[16:34] <didrocks> jodh: will keep you posted if I notice anything anyway!
[16:34] <didrocks> see you tomorrow guys :)
[16:34] <Laney> bye!
[16:56] <Laney> bleh
[16:56] <Laney> now it works after restarting
[16:57] <seb128> ?
[16:58] <Laney> trackpad
[17:21] <seb128> Trevinho, could you look at bug #1436297?
[17:21] <seb128> Laney, there is a bug that if you change the trackpad settings in g-c-c/u-c-c they seem to stop working until session restart
[17:22] <seb128> well at least willcooke had that in Brussels and something similar was going on on my laptop when I tried
[18:08] <Laney> ah maybe that
[18:35] <Laney> pitti: just got a proper shutdown, after manually installing that dbus
[18:35] <Laney> looks like the fix is good :-)
[18:35]  * Laney → pub quiz
[18:35] <Laney> ttyl!
[19:23] <mdeslaur> Trevinho: I've got a lock screen issue for you :)
[19:23] <mdeslaur> Trevinho: bug 1438870
[20:30] <rcarlos> hello
[20:40] <rcarlos> has anyone skipped tu
[20:45] <rcarlos> hello
[20:48] <rcarlos> has anyone skipped unity8 intro tutorial on desktop next ?


[10:43] <thomas_> morning people
[10:44] <aquarius> hey thomas
[10:44] <thomasvs> aquarius: so my last standing 'bug' is 100% CPU on the applet, just filed that with an strace log
[10:45] <aquarius> thomas_, is it your quest to use every possible irc nick? ;-)
[10:45] <thomasvs> aquarius: sadly the applet doesn't seem to have a way to give me debug info to figure out what it's doing exactly
[10:45] <thomasvs> aquarius: heh :)
[10:45] <thomasvs> aquarius: I have three machines I regularly work from, my belgian desktop, my spanish desktop, and my laptop
[10:45] <thomasvs> aquarius: hence my interest in desktopcouch I guess :)
[10:45] <aquarius> ah, hence many names, got it :)
[10:45]  * aquarius laughs!
[10:45] <aquarius> yes indeed
[10:46] <aquarius> 100% CPU, odd. Ah, just got the bug
[10:46] <thomasvs> ok, I'm going to wait for dobey to wake up for that applet bug before I dig into it myself
[10:46] <thomasvs> which means I"ll wait a bit more on doing the final test on this work desktop, but I just installed all packages and the applet popped up without throwing any error, and directed me to the u1 site, so stuff seems good
[10:46] <thomasvs> after that last bug is fixed I'll make some noise about the final packages
[10:47] <aquarius> the applet is a dobey thing, so he will have a stronger clue than I do
[10:47] <aquarius> ah, you already know this :O)
[10:47] <aquarius> wow, so it's very close to being done. Thumpingly good work, that man :)
[10:48] <thomasvs> it's been a ride, but let's not claim victory just yet
[10:48] <thomasvs> I should find a machine to upgrade to f-12 too to check
[10:48] <aquarius> what sort of noise?
[10:50] <thomasvs> aquarius: blogging about it, then submitting stuff to fedora's repo
[10:50] <thomasvs> I've had quite a few pingbacks on doing this, surprisingly
[10:51] <thomasvs> it's almost as if people are interested
[10:51] <thomasvs> it feels strangely motivating
[10:51] <aquarius> oh, noise to alert people that you've done it, not noise at us about stuff beign wrong ;-)
[10:52] <aquarius> I am well pleased that people are interested; I think it's cool tech
[10:52] <aquarius> and already bringing it up on Fedora has shown areas where the code needs improving, which is immensely useful
[10:52] <aquarius> or where we accidentally did Ubuntu-specific things without knowing it, like the certificate stuff
[10:57] <thomasvs> yeah, the hardest part is taking it from 'works on one thing' to 'works on two things'.  from that point on it gets easier.
[10:59] <aquarius> I'll remind you of that if ever a Windows port comes along :)
[11:00] <thomasvs> heh, well, that's an other thing entirely, but good to see that you at least consider it :)
[11:03] <aquarius> certainly if the archangel Michael arrived and said "here is a diff to make desktopcouch work on Windows too" we wouldn't refuse the patch. I'd like to see DC on Windows/Mac too, definitely, it's just not going to happen in the very near future if I'm doing it. :)
[12:37] <aquarius> thisfred, you up for a conversation about design documents, or do you want to eat breakfast or something first? :)
[12:44] <thisfred> aquarius: in a bit: foundations standup, then shower, so around 8:30 maybe?
[12:45] <aquarius> *nod* (about 45 minutes?)
[12:48] <thisfred> right
[12:48] <thisfred> sry, for being US-centric, it rubs off quickly ;)
[13:33] <thisfred> aquarius:: ready when you are
[13:34] <aquarius> thisfred, this is actually something brought up by thomasvs. He's publishing CouchApps to his desktopcouch, and wants them on all his other desktopcouches
[13:34] <aquarius> but...you can't write views to couchdb.o.u.c because you're not an admin
[13:34] <aquarius> so views don't get synced
[13:34] <aquarius> thus, fail
[13:35] <thisfred> aquarius: ah, that would be a feature request in couchdb then?
[13:36] <thisfred> we specifically exclude only viws with the u1_ prefix
[13:36] <thisfred> weird though
[13:36] <aquarius> rly?
[13:37] <thisfred> users are allowed to create and delete dbs
[13:37] <aquarius> so I should be able to write a design document to c.o.u.c?
[13:37] <thisfred> so creating views should work too
[13:37] <thisfred> aquarius: I think so
[13:37] <thisfred> as long as it's in one of your dbs
[13:37] <thisfred> obviously
[13:37] <aquarius> thomasvs says that when replicating, it doesn't replicate design documents. thomasvs?
[13:38] <thisfred> that would be a bug, either in our validators, or in couchdb itself
[13:38] <thisfred> replication by default does take ddocs along right?
[13:38] <aquarius> ah, good. I wasn't sure whether we were explicitly stomping on design docs :)
[13:39] <thisfred> or do we need to flip something to allow that
[13:39] <aquarius> don't you have to be an admin to write a design doc?
[13:39] <aquarius> and users are not admins
[13:39] <thisfred> aquarius: I don't have it all in my head, but I think we give users (damn near) admin rights in their own namespace
[13:39] <thisfred> aquarius: or they wouldn't be able to create dbs either
[13:40] <aquarius> I'm not sure exactly why this might not be working, which is why I wanted to make this problem part of your life :-)
[13:40] <thisfred> aquarius: I'll have a quick look for any obvious stupidity in the validator function
[13:40] <thisfred> me either, but we can find out
[13:41] <thisfred> aquarius: we need to ask thomasvs to try direct replication over lan, to eliminate one source of the problem
[13:41] <thisfred> (using d-c replication)
[13:42] <aquarius> yes
[13:42] <thisfred> aquarius: but if it's not that, I think it
[13:42] <thisfred> s fair to drop it on my plate
[13:42] <aquarius> I am starting to think that we need a proper replication test suite
[13:43] <thisfred> function(newDoc, oldDoc, userCtx)
[13:43] <thisfred>             {if (newDoc._id.indexOf('_design/u1_') == 0)
[13:43] <thisfred>                 {throw({forbidden : 'system design document'})}}
[13:43] <thisfred> aquarius: +1 on that
[13:44] <thisfred> the validator looks fine
[13:47] <aquarius> yeah, so that can't be the problem. weird. let's see what thomasvs has to say when he's free
[13:56] <teknico> aquarius, seen mandel?
[13:56] <aquarius> not today, nope
[13:56] <aquarius> apparently he has an actual job he has to attend to sometimes :)
[13:57] <teknico> he does? :-)
[13:57] <teknico> just did some more tortur^W reviewing of his branch :-)
[14:00] <dobey> Chipaca: hola. you rang?
[14:01] <dobey> hmm
[14:13] <thomasvs> aquarius, thisfred: ok, I will doublecheck that it actually doesn't work, maybe I did something wrong.  It makes it harder seeing as I can't actually see what's in my u1 couchdb :)
[14:13] <thomasvs> aquarius, thisfred:  I will try the sync on my work desktop as soon as dobey has a solution for the 100% cpu applet thing :)
[14:15] <thisfred> thomasvs: yeah, I understand. aquarius is there a reason why we shouldn't publish something like webm0nk3y's web_api tool for debugging purposes?
[15:01] <vds> it's time!
[15:01] <vds> Desktop+ MEETING BEGINS
[15:02] <vds> aquarius Chipaca__ dobey urbanape CardinalFang teknico jblount
[15:02] <teknico> me
[15:02] <vds> you know how it works
[15:02] <vds> me
[15:02] <vds> rodrigo_:
[15:02] <CardinalFang> me
[15:02] <jblount> me
[15:03] <rodrigo_> me
[15:03] <Chipaca__> 𝗺𝗲
[15:03] <dobey> me
[15:03] <aquarius> me
[15:04] <teknico> DONE: landed the branch updating the Funambol code to v. 8.0 (#403435), reviewed mandel's branch again
[15:04] <teknico> TODO: expose SMS methods in Funambol Server API (#381398), triage my 20 bugs
[15:04] <teknico> BLOCK: none
[15:04] <teknico> next: vds
[15:04] <vds> DONE: funally finished the two branches to port funambol v8 in sourcedeps, tried to start funambol on a random port to make funambol one of the server that starts with make start but no luck, I guess we'll start it only if we need it, triaged bugs, discussed about the status of the mobile sync, started a branch to wrap funambol sms api
[15:04] <vds> TODO: finish the branch
[15:04] <vds> BLOCKED: nope
[15:04] <vds> CardinalFang: please
[15:05] <CardinalFang> DONE: reviewed mandel's branch.  Made draft desktopcouch API for attachments.
[15:05] <CardinalFang> TODO: throw it away and start over.
[15:05] <CardinalFang> BLOCKED: None
[15:05] <CardinalFang> jblount, what's for lunch, and your goals?
[15:06] <jblount> DONE: Bugs sorted, meetings, post-holiday fuzz worked through
[15:06] <jblount> TODO: I have some bugs to deal with on the /files/ ui, ping johnlea about some contacts stuff
[15:06] <jblount> BLOCKED: Nope
[15:06] <jblount> rodrigo_: !
[15:06] <rodrigo_> • DONE: Added couchdb-glib documentation to xdg page. Looked at music store API. Fixed a bug in Evolution contact preview widget. Music store architecture discussions and planning. Contacts picker
[15:06] <rodrigo_> • TODO: Conflict resolver tool in pair tool. Look at becoming a MOTU (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers). Make sandy's snowy test suite work with our server (http://git.gnome.org/cgit/snowy/tree/api/tests.py). Discuss with jdo and aquarius about oauth token per app, not per machine? Talk to John Lea about contacts widget mockup
[15:06] <rodrigo_> • BLOCKED: no
[15:06] <rodrigo_> Chipaca: go!
[15:06] <Chipaca> DONE: lots of emails and meetings. TODO: continue talking about music store, and nail down somebody or somebodies to fix NoAccessToken bugs. BLOCKED: nevah! NEXT: dobey
[15:06] <dobey> ☺ DONE: Triage, Backporting, Arguing (it builds character, and teams)
[15:06] <dobey> ☹ TODO: More backporting, Triage, Prepare releases/SRUs
[15:06] <dobey> ☹ BLCK: None.
[15:06] <dobey> aquarius: hit it
[15:07] <aquarius> ⚀ DONE: music store planning
[15:07] <aquarius> ⚁ TODO: look at oauth-enabling twisted; make tomboy first-sync experience nicer; continue work on desktopcouch developer docs; write up things learned at UDS/sprint; work with rodrigo on Music Store, much more music store architecture planning
[15:07] <aquarius> ⚂ BLOCKED:
[15:07] <aquarius> chipaca, go
[15:07] <aquarius> er, oops
[15:07] <aquarius> not Chipaca :)
[15:07] <aquarius> urbanape, ?
[15:09] <Chipaca> aquarius: you were the last 'me'
[15:09] <aquarius> I was indeed
[15:10] <vds> so EOM I guess, thanks!
[15:22] <thomastp> dobey: let me know if you have time to look at that applet bug
[15:23] <dobey> thomastp: it's one of the hundreds of bugs i have to look at i guess, yes :)
[15:23] <thomastp> dobey: uh oh :)
[15:23] <thomastp> dobey: well, maybe a first feedback would help
[15:23] <thomastp> for example, should the applet have logging ?
[15:24] <dobey> it does, but i don't think it would help here
[15:25] <CardinalFang> aquarius, Attachments!
[15:25] <aquarius> CardinalFang, I can't send email, smtp.canonical.com keeps timing out :(
[15:25] <dobey> thomastp: the stable release only logs INFO and ERROR, and the only way to change it is edit the code to log DEBUG and worse
[15:26] <CardinalFang> aquarius, scenarios:  You are making a new record.
[15:26] <dobey> thomastp: if you change ubuntuone/oauthdesktop/logger.py to have logging.DEBUG for LOG_LEVEL instead of logging.INFO, you'll get more log messages, but probably nothing particularly relevant to your bug
[15:26] <thomastp> dobey: so, you'd accept a patch for example to add an option for that ?
[15:27] <CardinalFang> aquarius, r = Record(...); r.attach(f, "name"); db_obj.put_record(r)  ?
[15:28] <aquarius> CardinalFang, ya
[15:28] <dobey> thomastp: the applet will be going away soon.
[15:28] <CardinalFang> aquarius, Next scenario:  you already have a record.
[15:29] <thomastp> dobey: oh ?
[15:30] <dobey> thomastp: yes, we're going to be fixing the experience to not involve opening a browser, and to be more well integrated into the file manager/etc... and the applet won't exist.
[15:30] <thomastp> dobey: ok, so not much point focusing on improving it, and also unlikely you'll look at my bug :)
[15:30] <CardinalFang> aquarius, r = dbobj.get_record(record_id); r.attach(f, "name"); ... # then what?  dbobj.update_fields(record_id, d)  does not work.
[15:30] <dobey> thomastp: i have a feeling that the 100% cpu thing may very well be something with twisted
[15:31] <CardinalFang> "does not work" == "is ugly".
[15:31] <aquarius> CardinalFang, er, dbobj.put_record(r), no?
[15:31] <thomastp> dobey: me too
[15:31] <aquarius> CardinalFang, same as if I change a value
[15:31] <dobey> thomastp: well i haven't seen any complaints to that effect about the applet on ubuntu. but i will definitely put a fix for it in stable-1-0
[15:32] <CardinalFang> aquarius, ah, I guess so.  Hrm.
[15:32] <dobey> thomastp: there are some other complaints too, that pulling twisted out of the applet would fix
[15:32] <CardinalFang> dobey, quit yer hatin' on Twisted.
[15:32] <aquarius> CardinalFang, so, fetch-record, add-attachment-to-record, put-record.
[15:32] <dobey> thomastp: does syncdaemon also use up 100% cpu in the same manner?
[15:32] <thomastp> dobey: nope
[15:33] <thomastp> dobey: I've had twisted+gtkreactor taking 100% cpu bugs before due to a bug in python, I thought I had a fix for that installed, but not sure
[15:33] <dobey> CardinalFang: if it would only stop screwing with the main loop timing...
[15:34] <thomastp> dobey: screwing how ?
[15:35] <dobey> thomastp: the glib/gtk reactor alters some timing in the glib main loop
[15:35] <dobey> thomastp: so it wakes up once every 10 seconds at least
[15:35] <dobey> even if it doesn't really need to
[15:35] <thomastp> every tenth of a sec you mean ?
[15:35] <thomastp> that's pygtk I think
[15:36] <dobey> maybe 10 times/second yeah
[15:36] <dobey> let me see
[15:37] <thomastp> that would be this bug: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481569
[15:37] <dobey> bug 475447
[15:38] <urbanape> aquarius: sorry, out today watching the sick kid
[15:38] <aquarius> urbanape, no problem, I wasn't sure
[15:40] <dobey> thomastp: hrmm, interesting
[15:40] <dobey> thomastp: but twisted also does stuff
[15:41] <rtgz> What's the best way to store a date field in CouchDB? seconds-since-epoch, ISO 8601 or application-specific (bad-bad-bad). Empathy uses %Y%m%dT%H:%M:%S which is neither of the above and it looks ugly.
[15:42] <thomastp> dobey: what sort of stuff does twisted do that causes issues ?
[15:42] <thomastp> my experience with twisted has been nothing but stellar
[15:46] <dobey> thomastp: the gtk2/glib reactor does some stuff with iteration timing
[15:47] <dobey> thomastp: see the doIteration and simulate methods in Gtk2Reactor
[16:04] <CardinalFang> rtgz, ISO 8601.
[16:05] <CardinalFang> rtgz, Empathy's is 8601 except for time zone?
[16:05] <rtgz> CardinalFang, it is missing the dashes between y,m and d + missing timezone
[16:05] <rtgz> CardinalFang, message time='20091029T18:25:15'
[16:06] <rtgz> CardinalFang, erm, it is defined by standard as well...
[16:06] <CardinalFang> Ah.  Dang.  So close.
[16:07] <CardinalFang> rtgz, ah.  right.  """So a time might appear as either "134730" in the basic format or "13:47:30" in the extended format."""
[16:07]  * CardinalFang hugs Wikipedia.
[16:07] <rtgz> CardinalFang, The extended formats are preferred over the basic formats not only for human readability, but because some basic formats can appear to be ambiguous to those unfamiliar with the standard.
[16:07]  * rtgz is happy
[16:10] <CardinalFang> rtgz, Python datetime.datetime needs a striso8601ptime function.
[16:12]  * CardinalFang wishes he could talk to aquarius.
[16:13] <CardinalFang> thisfred, you alive?
[16:13] <thisfred> CardinalFang: yessir
[16:14] <CardinalFang> thisfred, great.  desktopcouch and attachments.  On Record,  .attach(file, str), .detach(str).  How should we retrieve an attached blob?
[16:14] <CardinalFang> I'm trying to think of what's Pythony.
[16:15] <rtgz> CardinalFang, isoformat() looks fine to me... and fromtimestamp()...
[16:15] <thisfred> from the db? record.get_attachment(attachment_id) and have that return a file like object?
[16:16] <CardinalFang> thisfred, record doesn't know anything about the db.  It holds data.
[16:17] <CardinalFang> db.get_attachment(record, attachment_name) ?
[16:17] <thisfred> CardinalFang: it could defer to a database method get_attachment(record_id, attachment_id)
[16:17] <thisfred> exactly :)
[16:18] <thisfred> or does it not hold a reference to the db at all?
[16:18] <CardinalFang> None at all.
[16:19] <thisfred> If so, it probably should. I'd like to be able to record.store(id=None) and record.load(id)
[16:19] <thisfred> or something
[16:19] <thisfred> unless there's a good reason not to have the reference
[16:19] <thisfred> I forget
[16:19] <thisfred> but I don't think so
[16:20] <CardinalFang> As it is, thisfred, one could get a record from one place and put it in another place.  We'd lose that.
[16:20] <thisfred> Ideally, a developer would not have to instantiate a database object in most cases
[16:20]  * CardinalFang thinks.
[16:20] <thisfred> CardinalFang: we could make a copy of the object and change the underlying db
[16:21] <thisfred> perhaps
[16:21] <thisfred> oh noes, who broke the aquarius?
[16:22] <thisfred> CardinalFang: record as is is independent of couchdb, which is kinda nice
[16:22] <thisfred> but probably not all that useful
[16:25] <CardinalFang> thisfred, How about this:  When I build a record, fabricate getter functions for those attachments, with the source DB object in the closure.
[16:28] <thisfred> CardinalFang: that could work, but it's more complicated than storing a reference to the db, and has no obvious (to me) advantages. I'd store the reference when we get a record from the db, and make the get_attachment method fail if self._db is None or some such
[16:28] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, ping
[16:28] <thisfred> then we could also have self.save(id=None)
[16:29] <thisfred> that would call to the db.store_record() or whatever it's called
[16:29] <CardinalFang> "put_record"
[16:29] <thisfred> we are creating a two way dependency between Database and Record, but I think that's ok, since they're in the same package
[16:30] <thisfred> CardinalFang: either way, I'd like to hear aquarius_broken
[16:30] <thisfred> on the subject
[16:51] <aquarius_broken> hey
[16:51] <aquarius_broken> sorry, stupid web client
[16:51] <aquarius_broken> what would you like my opnion on?
[16:52] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: pong
[16:53] <CardinalFang> aquarius_broken, thisfred suggests binding Record to CouchDatabase.  One can operate on Record directly and update a source database.
[16:53] <aquarius_broken> I don't think so. I quite like that Records are independent, and you have to explicitly db.put_record to store them
[16:55] <thisfred> aquarius_broken: ok, but that means you'll have to do db.get_attachment(record_id, attachment_id) as well
[16:55] <thisfred> not a big problem IMO, but not as pretty as record.get_attachment(attachment_id)
[16:55] <aquarius_broken> why?
[16:55] <CardinalFang> aquarius_broken, I like that they're separate too, except I'm trying to decide on the best way to get attachments.  I attach() and detach() are on Record.  When we get a record, we don't want to download every attached BLOB so that we do not need the DB any more.
[16:55] <aquarius_broken> I think that record.get_attachment should fetch the attachment when it's asked for
[16:56] <aquarius_broken> agreed, so there's a binding there
[16:56] <rtgz> there is a Russian joke about Chukchi. It states: There was a writers contest in some newspaper and one of the participants was Chukchi. When the editorial staff got to the text they could not understand anything. So they called that Chukchi and asked. "Have you even read the thing you mailed us?". And the response was "No, chukcha is writer, chuckchi is not reader".
[16:56] <thisfred> aquarius_broken: for that it needs a reference to the db
[16:56] <aquarius_broken> but basically a Record stores a reference to its attachments
[16:56] <aquarius_broken> and then lazily fetches them on demand
[16:56] <aquarius_broken> I admit that this slightly breaks the "be independent" thing
[16:56]  * rtgz finished the prototype for Telepathy messages stored in CouchDB, Text only. Now he needs to find out how to read things back in a user-friendly fashion
[16:56] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, do you have enough internet so we can discuss file sharing as a content delivery platform?
[16:56] <CardinalFang> aquarius_broken, thisfred, give me a while and I'll show you an idea implementation.
[16:56] <aquarius_broken> but we're only stepping away from that for performance reasons; think of this as a performance optimisation
[16:57] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: I do, I think, as long as it's here
[16:57] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: I can only get web access, and freenode has the web client
[16:57] <thisfred> CardinalFang: ok
[16:57] <aquarius_broken> I hate my life, incidentally, in case it wasn't clear
[16:57] <CardinalFang> aquarius_broken, who's your Intertubes provider?
[16:58] <CardinalFang> ...normally?
[16:58] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, ok. so, i think that doing that with file sharing is interesting. but id like to have a bigger idea before we so one implementation. statik gave me a list of possible uses of content distribution
[16:58] <aquarius_broken> CardinalFang: Virgin Media
[16:58] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yep
[16:58] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, would we make all of this work around UDFs? whats the best user experience we can think of?
[16:59] <statik> best user experience I can think of is music into ~Ubuntu One/Purchased Music or ~/Music/Purchased, and make rythymbox automatically notice music there
[17:00] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: the best user experience *I* can think of is that clicking a song downloads it in the background; when it's downloaded it appears in your music library in yoru music player; songs are actually stored in a folder inside your current music library folder called "Ubuntu One Purchased Music", and that folder is a UDF
[17:00] <statik> ~/Ubuntu One/Purchase Music is perhaps better because it makes it clear that the music is consuming storage quota, and that the user can copy music out
[17:00] <statik> to stop it being synced
[17:01] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, what kind of notifications would the user get? general "file download" notification? or something better? like "you have finished downloading the album XYZ"?
[17:01] <aquarius_broken> statik: that's what emblems are for, though. If we think that people will be confused or not understand which folders are synced, then we need to solve that problem
[17:01] <aquarius_broken> statik: in order for UDFs to be acceptable
[17:01] <statik> sure
[17:01] <__lucio__> statik, i dont like magic folders inside ~/ubuntuone
[17:02] <dobey> :-/
[17:02] <statik> CardinalFang just started talking about bittorrent
[17:02] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: the way I'm imagining it working is that when you buy a song, you'll be shown, inside the music player, which songs you've recently purchased and whether they're downloaded or not (so there'll be an "in progress downloading" page, much the same as Software Centre has an "In Progress" page, so we're consistent with them)
[17:02] <Chipaca> __lucio__: question: can we create a share owned and shared to the same person?
[17:03] <statik> also i promised popey that we would give him free music
[17:03] <statik> :D
[17:03] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, so, how would the music store know which files are actually the ones that are being downloaded?
[17:04] <CardinalFang> I like re-using syncdaemon code to download music.  I hate that it has anything to do with my ~/Ubuntu\ One directory.
[17:04] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, do we do one UDF per song, per album, per purchase, for all the purchased music?
[17:04] <jblount> statik: fabsh wants music too: http://twitter.com/fabsh/status/6229442644
[17:04] <aquarius_broken> because it knows which ones you chose, so it can look in the folder and see if they're there yet.
[17:04] <__lucio__> Chipaca, you dirty thing
[17:04] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: I think your Purchased Music folder is a UDF
[17:05] <Chipaca> your honor, he's not answering my question
[17:05] <__lucio__> Chipaca, yes we can. it may have some side effects we have to hunt and kill.
[17:06] <Chipaca> __lucio__: correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be a quick-and-dirty non-documented way of getting a UDF?
[17:06] <__lucio__> Chipaca, that means that it will use double the disk space
[17:06] <__lucio__> Chipaca, and the location would be ~/Ubuntu One/Shared With Me/My Purchased Music
[17:06] <Chipaca> hmmm
[17:07]  * rodrigo_ needs to get out for a little bit, will follow the discussion from the log
[17:07] <dobey> yeah, must go get food and do some errands
[17:08] <CardinalFang> Lunch.  Back to yell about music in 1h.
[17:10] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, we need soemthing better. when you install apps you have units that are bigger than single files, whole apps. so if i buy a disk, i dont want to follow every single file to know if it finished downloading.
[17:11] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yeah, but songs aren't like that.
[17:11] <aquarius_broken> you buy a song, it's a song.
[17:13] <joshuahoover> CardinalFang: should bug 442120 be fix released for the desktopcouch project (i assume it should be since it's fix released on the package/karmic)
[17:14] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, albums are.
[17:14] <aquarius_broken> so? look at, for prior art, the existing Amazon MP3 downloader; it shows you download progress per song, even if you buy an album.
[17:15] <aquarius_broken> If what you want is download progress for the whole album at once, that's not hard to do.
[17:17] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, we could just change what we show client side. the downloads in progress already is code we have to do, right?
[17:17] <__lucio__> so we can have specific messages and everything appropriate for content delivery
[17:18] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yeah, but it's almost entirely trivial code. (for file in things_downloading: if os.path.exists(file): print "done"; else: print "waiting")
[17:18] <aquarius_broken> and it can certainly be done with more detail than that if you want
[17:18] <aquarius_broken> I'm just thinking about the minimum requirements here
[17:19]  * rtgz posted http://blog.rtg.in.ua/2009/12/telepathy-logging-to-couchdb.html
[17:19] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, you can use dbus and give better information
[17:19] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, but yes, we can give whatever user experience we want as long as the music store app knows what files make each item/purchase
[17:20] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: absolutely, and that'd be really good :)
[17:20] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: and it will know
[17:22] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, so, if we put stuff in ~/Ubuntu One/The music i paid for/ , what happens when we have UDFs? How do we get that into rhythmbox?
[17:22] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, what if a user with a netbook wants to buy gigabytes of music?
[17:23] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: ah, that's still to be decided. What *I* think is that we create a "Purchased Music" folder which is a subfolder of your music library folder (~/Music by default) and we make Purchased Music a UDF.
[17:23] <aquarius_broken> users with a netbook: what about them? That's no different to the case of "what if a user with a netbook wants to store 50GB of OpenOffice documents in U1", is it?
[17:23] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, theres is real risk that we cant do UDFs for lucid.
[17:24] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yep, so if UDFs don't arrive then the folder is ~/Ubuntu One/My Purchased Music, and we add a symlink to that folder to the music library. A better solution would be to teach media players about multiple library folders, but I think that will be hard.
[17:24] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, how about migration then?
[17:24] <aquarius_broken> migration?
[17:25] <aquarius_broken> rtgz: sweet empathy work! I have a couple of questions about it once we've finished this discussion, if you have time later?
[17:27] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: do you mean: if we set up that symlink for Lucid users, and then we get UDFs in lucid+1, should we make the folder a UDF automatically?
[17:28] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: if so, I think no. Since at the moment we don't detect if someone's changed ~/Documents to be a symlink to ~/Ubuntu One/documents so they get their docs synced, we shouldn't try and be cleverer than that for music.
[17:30] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, ok. what about the "content delivery api", is that a public api? internal api? is the serive just "give X to Y"? do we do it just because we dont want to touch the music store pprivate api? what exactly the benefit it gives to each party?
[17:31] <aquarius_broken> there isn't a "content delivery API". We have the ability, on the one.ubuntu.com server, to add new files to a user's Ubuntu One folder if they ask for them somehow (by purchasing some music from our music store, for example)
[17:32] <aquarius_broken> the benefits it gives for users are: they already understand Ubuntu One and how its files work; this is an extension of that. It means that things that they get from Ubuntu One are automatically Ubuntu One data, which means they'll act like other data they've put in Ubuntu One. It provides a consistent home and experience for all dealings with Ubuntu One services.
[17:33] <aquarius_broken> Benefits it provides for us, the U1 team: we've already spent ages building a way of getting files from o.u.c to desktops, which is robust and clever and can cope with your net connection being flaky or limited bandwidth, so we're using it again rather than building a new thing which will *also* have to cope with those things
[17:35] <rtgz> aquarius_broken, sure
[17:38] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, there is an api, i wont let you get your hands on the model code and just touch the db :)
[17:39] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: ah, right, yeah, but that API will be called by code in the server from the web, it's not exposed as an actual API to the outside world. :)
[17:39] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: I wasn;t planning on just writing sql, promise ;)
[17:40] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, maybe its just the controller, and you have to take care yourself about getting stuff into s3
[17:41] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yeah. I haven't thought massively about the exact detail of how that'll work yet
[17:43] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, re: we still have to build something to get files from the store provider. so whoever does that can put them on s3 i imagine.
[17:43] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yeah, that, to be honest, sounds reasonable, although reusing the existing put-files-on-s3 code as much as possible would be good
[17:46] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, it can be as easy as some_s3_lib.put(storage_key, content) m but it gets a bit more complex when you want streaming, resumes, etc
[17:46] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: yeah. I don't know anything about the existing code that does this stuff, but obviously I am going to need to :-)
[17:47] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, welcome to twisted
[17:47] <aquarius_broken> yay
[17:50] <aquarius_broken> but my love for twisted aside, does the plan make a bit more sense now? SOrry if I didn't explain this in enough detail before :)
[17:52] <aquarius_broken> __lucio__: and does that cover your worry that syncdaemon wasn't right for the job?
[17:54] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, yes, i like it now. i worry that the user experience may get a bit complex or we fail to provide good information to the user. but thats back to your field
[17:56] <aquarius_broken_> __lucio__: I spend all day and night thinking about that, don't worry :)
[17:56] <aquarius_broken_> __lucio__: so if it turns out rubbish after all, you can blame me, and then you can shoot me.
[17:56] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken, i only care about the shooring
[17:56] <__lucio__> shooting
[17:57] <aquarius_broken_> __lucio__: haha! bring it on. I saw you with the handgun at UDS :)
[17:58] <__lucio__> :)
[17:59] <aquarius_broken_> right, good, I'm glad your worries have been alleviated :)
[17:59] <__lucio__> aquarius_broken_, but seriously, please think hard on how you are going to make sure we can provide enough information and still give a good ux. for example: having syncdaemon say "finished syncing" and the music store say "songs downloaded" at the same time may not be the best thing
[18:00] <aquarius_broken_> absolutely agreed
[18:03] <aquarius_broken_> I'm still mulling over how to indicate song download completion
[18:03] <Chipaca> __lucio__: you mean via notifications?
[18:03] <aquarius_broken_> need to prototype a couple of things, perhaps :)
[18:03] <Chipaca> because syncdaemon notifications for success are going away
[18:04] <aquarius_broken_> indeed they are
[18:04] <aquarius_broken_> and I'm not sure I want to replace them with music-store notifications for success :)
[18:04] <__lucio__> Chipaca, whatever we show the user
[18:05] <aquarius_broken_> instead, I think the download progress page should do it
[18:05] <aquarius_broken_> but I need to prototype that just so people know what I'm talking about :)
[18:05] <__lucio__> Chipaca, no more: "you have X new files"?
[18:05] <Chipaca> __lucio__: yes, no more "downloaded 2156 of<PHONE_NUMBER>678865"
[18:07] <__lucio__> Chipaca, what about "you have X new files"? its not the same
[18:08] <Chipaca> __lucio__: nope, sorry
[18:09] <__lucio__> Chipaca, why?
[18:10] <Chipaca> __lucio__: design says they suck (and I tend to agree)
[18:10] <__lucio__> Chipaca, design said we had to have them
[18:10] <Chipaca> hmmm
[18:11]  * aquarius_broken_ shows his trying-to-look-surprised face :)
[18:11] <Chipaca> __lucio__: when was that?
[18:11] <__lucio__> Chipaca, before karmic
[18:12] <Chipaca> __lucio__: give me a second
[18:12] <Chipaca> __lucio__: do you really want to read the spec?
[18:13] <__lucio__> Chipaca, will it give me more info apart from "notifications are sooooo last year"?
[18:14]  * Chipaca reads
[18:14] <Chipaca> __lucio__: no
[18:15] <__lucio__> Chipaca, oh, well. your problem :)
[18:15] <Chipaca> __lucio__: yes
[18:15] <Chipaca> john__: ping
[18:17] <john__> Chipaca, Hi
[18:17] <Chipaca> john__: are _all_ u1 notifications going out?
[18:18] <Chipaca> john__: I mean, in the spec as "we won't do this anymore"
[18:19] <Chipaca> john__: if so, we'd like to know why; last year we had to put them in, so it would good if we could know the rationale
[18:19] <john__> I would also like to know the rationale as to why they were added last year ;-)
[18:20] <Chipaca> john__: otherwise it would just sit there doing nothing
[18:21] <Chipaca> the notifications were actually welcomed, in general, even if they aren't 100% accurate some of the time
[18:21] <john__> one sec...
[18:22] <john__> Ubuntu One should not issue notifications in direct response the user's own actions. If a user has just saved a file, they don't need to be told that the file is synced. If the file fails to sync the user should be alerted to the error however this is a separate discussion.
[18:22] <john__> Ideally notifications should be issued when another user updates a file that the current user has access to (both when they have shared the file and when the file is shared with them). This is a means by which the user can receive situational awareness of other users interactions with data that falls within his or her scope. This is functionality is one element of a possible events framework that is not currently in scope
[18:22] <john__> basically we should not issue notification in direct response to a users own actions
[18:23] <Chipaca> john__: and if a user needs to know if a file is sync'ed before, say, unplugging and going home?
[18:24] <Chipaca> john__: we do notify them when they turned the music up, how is this different?
[18:25] <john__> The user should be able to check that the sync is complete if they need to, but we shouldn't push notifications continuously in response to user actions.  Knowing if the computer is currently: In sync, syncing or disconnected can be perhaps handled differently.
[18:25] <aquarius_broken_> Chipaca: isn't this what the emblems are for?
[18:26] <aquarius_broken_> Chipaca: files/folders that are partially synced have the partial emblem
[18:26] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, Chipaca the users are not going to dive into their directories to find out whether a particular file is synced or not
[18:27] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: but the notifications don't help with that either
[18:29] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, if the bubble said "the files are synced" then I believe it. If I put a file into the directory and nothing tells me it is synced then it is not synced probably. And if I put the whole directory structure then I don't see infdividual emblems. It's not like remote nfs/sftp/smb connection when files are 'there' when they appear 'there'...
[18:30] <thisfred> bbiab, dogwalk
[18:30] <john__> Chipaca, good question.  I think the answer is historical and that it is the expected behaviour from TVs etc..  There is also the difference between a single purpose wigit where the user is adjusting a single parameter  and reporting more complex interactions which do not solely involve the changing of a parameter.  I think this needs to be articulated more clearly.
[18:30] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: yeah, but a folder which is partially synced should have the partial emblem on
[18:30] <rtgz> something like 'current tasks' like in the Software Store...
[18:31] <rtgz> * Ubuntu Software Center
[18:32] <john__> aquarius_broken_: agree
[18:32] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: wanna talk about the empathy thing? (great work on that, btw!)
[18:32] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, erm, am I too boring regarding the notifications? :)
[18:33] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: not at all, if you're staying involved in that discussion then I can wait :)
[18:34] <dobey> hrmm
[18:34] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, okay, so, re: empathy, telepathy and im logging. Currently only single user chats are implemented, it requires PPA version of mission-control.
[18:35] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: you're storing details of chats, yes?
[18:35] <dobey> arguing about notifications?
[18:35] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: so it's not actually specific to empathy? pidgin could use it too, for example?
[18:36] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, the main questions as I see it at the moment is how to DISABLE logging for particular conversation since Telepathy does not provide anything of such kind. Empathy guys added a gconf entry globally enabling/disabling the logging but it is weird for an external logger to peek into gconf for Empathy to find out the setting
[18:37] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, it is Telepathy-specific client listening to DBus messages and reacting when telepathy sends notifications about new channels (new chats)
[18:37] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: ah, sorry, I wasn't clear. YOur client is Empathy-specific, certainly. But if Pidgin decided to store its logs in desktopcouch, it could use the same record format, yes?
[18:38] <dobey> john__: if you want to know why they were added, ask beuno/djsiegel
[18:38] <artir> hey, do you know if it's possible to have a U1 app you can feed with a string i.e. "chromium-browse,xmoto" and get that installed across all your computers?
[18:39] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, the actual format for this record type is simply {  "_id": "e9db6404d7970a7869c00381f3c845b3", "_rev": "1-631d84ba5af857958138fef0666d66da",  "from"<EMAIL_ADDRESS> "to"<EMAIL_ADDRESS>"record_type": "http://www.rtg.in.ua/empathy-im-couchdb",  "time": "2009-12-01T20:15:46", "protocol": "jabber",  "message": "Bot Szanowni Państwo, let's chat!"}
[18:39] <dobey> artir: no. but you could write a simple shell script to do it with ssh and apt-get
[18:40] <artir> dobey: and if my computer is out of my local network?
[18:40] <artir> and i don't want to have it on :)
[18:40] <artir> i waws thinking of storing the string in a desktopcouch, which gets replicated and then parse the string with python and install that (the program would need to run as root)
[18:40] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, script snapshot: http://paste.ubuntu.com/332530/
[18:41] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: yep, that's what I thought, so that'd work fine if pidgin wanted to store their logs too. So...could I suggest that you change the record type to be something more neutral? One of the things I want to do is to encourage different apps to collaborate by using the same record type for things
[18:41] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: it'd be great if pidgin stored logs and then when I switched to empathy all the logs were still readable by empathy
[18:41] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, sure, the main part was to find out how to get the data from telepathy, not how to put it into the CouchDB :)
[18:42] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: yes indeed -- the bit I'm most impressed with is that you got the data from telepathy, but the bit I'm most concerned about being right is how it goes into desktopcouch ;-0
[18:43] <dobey> john__: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOne/KarmicClient
[18:43] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: also, it's a really good idea if the record_type URL actually points to a page which describes the record_type (some notes ni human-readable format are fine; it doesn't have to be a schema or anything)
[18:44] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: although I note that you have a page there which says "see the blog", which is good :)
[18:44] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: record types don't have to be defined at freedesktop -- they can be any URL
[18:44] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: there's no "official register" or anything :)
[18:45] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, Basically we need from, to, date and them message itself. However this list has to be extended for protocol, or account, etc. since there may be 31313 icq display name and... no idea who else wants to have such id in another network, but they are able.
[18:46] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: yeah; you'll almost certainly want some indication of which protocol it was, I think?
[18:46] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, They should be at freedesktop, cause telepathy is part of freedesktop, desktopcouch is part of freedesktop and I don't like that google site :)
[18:47]  * aquarius_broken_ laughs
[18:47] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, I suspect that the logs are of no use if nothing can read them so it is necessary to create a log reader that reads directly from couchdb and see what bits are missing
[18:47] <aquarius_broken_> rtgz: it would be good to bring up the format on the desktopcouch mailing list for discussion, perhaps, and mention it to a pidgin developer or amsn developer to get their thoughts into the discussion?
[18:49] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, the guys at #telepathy had an idea to finally create external logger/framework some week or two ago (the only existing external logger so far is in Nokia's Maemo)
[18:50] <aquarius_broken_> cool!
[18:50] <aquarius_broken_> your work would be an excellent demonstration of that :)
[18:50] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, ... and the fact that it will not work in karmic default install
[18:51] <aquarius_broken_> ?
[18:51] <aquarius_broken_> won't it?
[18:51] <aquarius_broken_> oh, you mean because the telepathy logger stuff won't be there, right
[18:51] <aquarius_broken_> I thought you meant that desktopcouch was broken :)
[18:52] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, the mission-control shipped with carmic has a bug preventing new channel notification if you were the one who originated the chat :(
[18:52] <aquarius_broken_> :(
[18:52]  * rtgz either writes karmic or karmik, not carmic o_O...
[18:53] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, so there is a PPA containing the updated mission-control
[18:54] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, *whispering* actually it is possible to obtain all info w/o updates simply by sitting and listening to DBus traffic but they discouraged me from doing that :)
[18:55]  * aquarius_broken_ laughs! yeah, probably best to do it the proper way :)
[18:58] <rtgz> okay, went searching for desktopcouch mailing list, pidgin and amsn...
[18:58] <rtgz> hey, we have gajim as well!
[19:02] <aquarius_broken_> :)
[19:07] <rtgz> aquarius_broken_, and they have really started doing things - #telepathy - http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Logger
[19:24] <thisfred> back
[19:54] <Bookman> I am having issues on every machine I have with Ubuntu One.  It does not seems to connect at all.  And on one machine, it has never synced up at all.  On another one, it used to sync up until around 10 November.  On another one, it used to sync up until a couple of days ago.
[19:54] <Bookman> Is this project dead?
[19:54] <nessita> Bookman: hi there
[19:55] <nessita> Bookman: not at all, we're working a lot on it.
[19:55] <nessita> Bookman: could you please paste in pastebin.com the config files you have? you ca find those at
[19:55] <Bookman> From all 5 machines?
[19:55] <nessita> ~/.config/ubuntuone/syncdaemon.conf
[19:56] <nessita> Bookman: let's start with one :-)
[19:56] <rtgz> Bookman, can you run the diagnostic script? just to make sure we are not searching for the needle that can be found by the script itself?
[19:56] <rtgz> Bookman, wget http://ubuntuone-client-diagnose.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py
[19:56] <rtgz> Bookman, python ubuntuone-client-diagnose.py
[19:56] <Bookman> Ok, I can only answer one thing at a time here.
[19:58] <Bookman> nessita, There is no file there with the name syncdaemon.conf
[19:59] <nessita> Bookman: ok, then run the script rtgz mentioned :-)
[20:01] <Bookman> Ok, problem solved.  It does not work with anything other than NetworkManager.
[20:01] <Bookman> I cannot run that because it does not work with DSL modems anymore.  Since 9.10
[20:02] <rtgz> Bookman, the PPA version contains the fix that ignores NetworkManager if it is not present
[20:03] <rtgz> Bookman, however, the DSL problem is a bit weird, the NM contains the DSL tab, at least :/
[20:03] <Bookman> Yes it sure does, but it does not connect to it
[20:04] <Bookman> Really broken
[20:04] <Bookman> It caused me so many headaches...and still is aparently.
[20:04] <Bookman> There is some work around but I'm not interested in work arounds.  They are a whole lot more work
[20:10] <Bookman> Ok, a whole lot of stuff to read on that bug link but I'm still not sure what to do witht he PPA
[20:14] <Bookman> Ok, never mind.  I'm going to switch back to Dropbox company wide.  Just easier and it works.  Maybe 10.04 will be better integrated.
[20:14] <Bookman> Thanks for trying though!  I appreciate the timely response.
[20:14] <rtgz> Bookman, Visit this link https://launchpad.net/~ubuntuone/+archive/beta and add it to your software sources
[20:15] <rtgz> Bookman, then do the regular system update.
[20:18] <CardinalFang> Bookman, yes, Ubuntu One still depends on Network Manager.  Your real bug is with Network Manager not supporting DSL properly.  It should.  That is its job.  We have a soft plan to make the synch service work without availability notifications from the manager of the network, but it is not (afaik) implemented yet.
[20:20] <Bookman> CardinalFang, Understood and not a problem.  Dropbox will work for now.
[20:20] <dobey> CardinalFang: yes it is
[20:20] <dobey> (implemented)
[20:20] <CardinalFang> rawk.
[20:20] <dobey> it's implemented in the code in karmic, but there was a bug
[20:20] <dobey> and getting SRUs done isn't trivial, but the fix is in trunk and the beta PPA already
[20:24] <CardinalFang> dobey, good to know.  Okay, Bookman, try again in two weeks, or try our PPA.  (In terminal "sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntuone/beta; apt-get update")
[20:24] <Bookman> CardinalFang, I will wait for 10.04.
[20:25] <CardinalFang> Bookman, Okay.  Bye.
[20:49]  * rtgz wishes he had a DSL connection for all sorts of NM testing after he was bitten by dial-up-not-supported in 8.10...
[20:50] <rtgz> okay, desktopcouch mailing list notified, pidgin is on hold until the managers approve my posting :(
[22:55] <Bookman> Ok, from a users prospective, I just re-installed Dropbox and no issues at all.  You need to really copy this model.  Actually it works so well I'm not sure I understand why you are.
[22:57] <Bookman> Spend your time developing something else.  Something not done yet.
[23:11] <Bookman> I've seen my dropbox solution to ubuntu one over and over and over again on the web.
[23:17] <rtgz> sad
[23:23] <rtgz> I guess I'll need to add the real fix() in u1-diagnose for NM problem advising immediate u1 ppa register and update. Otherwise... I have to the bugreport queue and pretty much of the bugs reported are duplicates of known problems with fixes around the corner...
[23:26] <rtgz> And, btw, the bug #387308 is strange. Is storageprotocol/proxy_tunnel.py that far from completion?
[23:27] <rtgz> On behalf of ubottu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntuone-client/+bug/387308 [Wishlist] Proxy Support
[23:28]  * rtgz stops being sad and goes to bed. Bye!


[06:32] <Han> Hi, I'm from the nicotine+ team, and I'd like to request a bot to join our channel that can warn about launchpad build failures. What do I need to do for that?
[06:32] <Han> Oh yes, on libera.chat =)
[06:33] <Han> I already went there, but there were just a few peoples and no topic was set.
[07:06] <jose> Han: Probably give it a few days - things are in flight right now, so it would be a bit hard to get quick action on non-critical items. But I'm sure the team would be glad to help later on!
[07:09] <Han> That makes sense, Jose. Thanks
[19:21] <jo-erlend> I just received a message that I had been defrocked for moving to libera? :) Is Ubuntu moving its IRC channels away from Freenode?
[19:29] <PaulW2U> jo-erlend: Yes, see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001922.html and the follow-up email
[19:30] <leftyfb> jo-erlend: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html
[19:33] <jo-erlend> Thanks.
[20:21] <Pricey> jo-erlend: Any chance you'd share that message please? Wondering what you mean by defrocked.
[20:22] <leftyfb> Pricey: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/tW2jcZCSFd/
[20:22] <Pricey> leftyfb: Thanks. So it's just membership of the launchpad group, not actual removal of cloaks. Thanks!
[20:23]  * Pricey adds another Thanks for good measure...
[22:01] <ApOgEE> hello
[22:04] <Unit193> ApOgEE: Howdy!  Not trying to worry you or anything, if you haven't yet please see https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2021-May/001923.html
[22:06] <ApOgEE> i'm just about to ask ;)
[22:10] <ApOgEE> should i move to libera instead of freenode then?
[22:10] <Unit193> Yeah, that's where Ubuntu is going.
[22:14] <el> yeah assume that these channels could be yoinked from underneath us
[22:14] <el> for the crime of moving
[22:17] <leftyfb> in the name of "community" :)
[22:25] <tomreyn> Please update https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList/Local as needed (for migrations to Libera / elsewhere)


[12:55] <ybon> humm, I don't know how I edit the manifest.json data in QTCreator, I remember doing it through "publish" tab before, I think. Any hint?
[12:56] <ybon> (I can edit it from any editor, for sure, but wondering how I can do it from QtCreator)
[13:13] <popey> ybon: yeah, it moved...
[13:15] <popey> i can never find it either.
[13:20] <ybon> ok, lets do it the raw way for today :)
[13:58] <ybon> oh, a points of interest scope made by canonical \o/
[13:59] <ybon> Anyone know where is the source code?
[14:03] <popey> ybon: ping cwayne when he wakes, he will know I think
[14:07] <popey> ybon: is that a new scope on the nexus 4? I don't recall seeing it
[14:38] <ybon> popey: just found it while searching for "osm" in the store
[14:39] <ybon> the "sad" part is that "see on the map" opens the browser on here.com ;)
[17:59] <swordfish90> Hello everyone I just created a fat click package for the new terminal app. Could please test it on a non armhf architecture to make sure it works before submitting it to the store?
[18:01] <swordfish90> link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2KuANIptmZhaWU4azVaTVVLeUU/view?usp=sharing
[18:18] <Elleo> swordfish90: using pkcon on my desktop I get 'Fatal error: Wrong architecture 'multi''; using click directly I also get: 'dpkg: warning: package architecture (multi) does not match system (amd64)'
[18:18] <Elleo> should the arch not be 'all' instead of multi?
[18:19] <Elleo> swordfish90: it runs fine once installed though
[18:20] <Elleo> oh hang on, I might have just been running an old terminal version
[18:21] <Elleo> yeah, the new one doesn't run
[18:22] <Elleo> I'm running on utopic though, so maybe that just doesn't have support for 'multi' packages?
[18:23] <swordfish90> Elleo, thank you for testing it... mmmh... I've tried following the guide written by Nicholas http://www.theorangenotebook.com/2014/12/creating-mutli-arch-click-packages.html ... I can't promise I did everything right though :) ...
[18:24] <swordfish90> On the phone is working fine (with a signature error) do you have any idea what is wrong?
[18:49] <Elleo> swordfish90: I'm not really familiar with any of the multiarch stuff, it'd be good if you could find someone running vivid on their desktop to test it
[18:49] <Elleo> then at least you'd know whether it's simply not supported in utopic or not
[19:59] <swordfish90> Elleo, ok, thank you. I'm going to install a vivid vm to test it.. Cheers...
[20:08] <popey> swordfish90: will cooke has a laptop running unity8, I'm sure he'd love to test a fat package on that
[20:37] <swordfish90> popey, thank you Alan... I'm going to ask him...