[00:29] <BUGabundo> dtchen: ping.
[00:29] <BUGabundo> dtchen: will you return to #ubuntu+1 any time soon ?
[00:29] <BUGabundo> or you are just too busy?
[00:40] <nhandler> asac: I got a branch up for lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/firefox-greasemonkey.ubuntu and set it as 'Abandoned'. They do not have bzr whiteboards anymore, so I can't easily leave a note on the branch saying that it has moved to lp:~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/greasemonkey.ubuntu
[00:41] <asac> ok. thats ok i guess
[01:03] <fta> asac, i think i will tweak chromium to use gcc 4.3 on karmic, there are too many issues with 4.4
[01:04] <asac> fta: hmm. you mean compile errors or segfaults?
[01:04] <fta> both
[01:04] <fta> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=9104
[01:05] <fta> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=9932
[01:07] <asac> i think its ok to tweak it and wait for upstream fix
[01:08] <nhandler> Did something happen to chatzilla?
[01:09] <fta> asac, i discussed with the fedora guy and some v8 devs, they have no real clue about what's going on.
[01:46] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/172684/ ?
[01:47] <fta> (hardy doesn't have 4.3)
[01:54] <nhandler> Jazzva: ping
[01:55] <Jazzva> nhandler: pong
[01:59] <nhandler> Jazzva: In the mood to look at lp:~nhandler/firefox-extensions/foxyproxy.ubuntu ?
[02:00] <Jazzva> nhandler: I'll give it a quick look... tired and soon going to sleep
[02:01] <nhandler> Thanks a lot
[02:01] <Jazzva> np
[02:08] <Jazzva> nhandler: huh... we'll have to rebrand it. I missed this piece of information... http://paste.ubuntu.com/172693/
[02:10] <Jazzva> nhandler: at least that's what ".... are proprietary work and are neither open-source nor free" sounds like to me.
[02:10] <nhandler> Jazzva: How do we go about replacing the logo in the actual extension?
[02:12] <Jazzva> nhandler: I suppose we replace the icon in chrome... and then there are styles, which I'm unsure about. there is one CSS file in chrome/skin.
[02:13] <Jazzva> But I see loss of functionality in removing it. I'll mail the developers tomorrow and see what they exactly meant. That's a shame :(.
[02:14] <Jazzva> nhandler: If I understand correctly, that means it's not for universe, but multiverse.
[02:14] <nhandler> Not really. We still can't use the icons and name and all of that stuff
[02:15] <Jazzva> nhandler: they didn't mention anything on redistribution of artwork and icons. It sounds like it's implied, but it might be redistributable. I might be wrong, too :). Anyway, I'll mail them and see what they meant. Maybe they reconsider the license? (but I doubt that)
[02:16] <Jazzva> s/artwork and icons/artwork, icons and the rest/
[02:17] <nhandler> Jazzva: You are right. It might be able to go in Multiverse.
[02:17] <Jazzva> nhandler: though I hope they will reconsider their decision (which slipped by me in the past)
[02:18] <nhandler> It must have also slipped by the Archive Admins ;)
[02:18] <Jazzva> nhandler: it's a long chain :)
[02:18] <Jazzva> nhandler: it's good that we noticed now. I'll e-mail them tomorrow. The rest of the packaging looks good.  Estimated repository size: 20.3 GiB (100.00%) of 20.0 GiB
[14:05] <gnomefreak> i need some ideas on apps to burn dvds. I have tried gnomebacker braseo and neither one will burn it
[15:07] <asac> brasero is nice for me
[15:07] <asac> ;)
[15:07] <asac> gnomereak isnt even here ;)
[15:16] <fta> ;)
[15:29] <micahg1> asac: you have time for a couple ff bugs?
[16:29] <stefanlsd> I am installing an extension system-wide in /usr/share/gears.  It seems like new profile's get the extension no problem, existing ones dont. Does anyone have any ideas?
[19:04] <BUGabundo> ola peeps
[19:04] <fta> plop
[19:05] <BUGabundo> nope... peeps, really
[19:05] <asac> peep ;)
[19:06] <BUGabundo> eheh
[20:01] <Jazzva> nhandler: http://foxyproxy.mozdev.org/drupal/content/foxyproxy-license
[20:01] <Jazzva> nhandler: now we can just wait...
[20:10] <fta> asac, what is "gcc-4.3 | gcc" supposed to do if gcc(-4.4) is already installed?
[20:12] <fta> hmm, i guess i should have used "gcc-4.3 | gcc-4.2" instead
[20:31] <BUGabundo> fta: AFAIK nothing! it keeps what you have
[20:32] <fta> yep, i figured that out
[20:33] <fta> apparently, upstream is watching me, they just moved the gcc 4.4 bug from P2 to P0 :)
[20:33] <BUGabundo> fta: you go girl...
[20:33] <BUGabundo> ^w dude
[20:34] <fta> google is watching me, oh my!
[20:34] <fta> :)
[20:38] <mbana> asac: you said there were plans to allow a 32bit ver. on a 64bit machine ...
[21:04] <micahg> what should the status of wishlist requests in the firefox package (not 3.0 or 3.5)
[22:28] <asac> fta: yeah ... just depend on the gccs you want to use ... the default will be installed anyway
[22:28] <asac> micahg: if wishlist bugs are filed against firefox and they still exist in firefox-3.5, reassign to that package
[22:29] <asac> or add firefox-3.5 and set firefox task to wontfix
[22:45] <fta> asac, done that already
[22:46] <fta> asac, umd is still red on karmic :p
[22:47] <fta> d'oh! http://code.google.com/p/chromiumembedded/
[22:48] <BUGabundo> fta: at least chromium is buildign
[22:48] <fta> BUGabundo, eH?
[22:48] <BUGabundo> I just got an update for it
[22:48] <fta> karmic?
[22:49] <fta> just amd64, the other ones failed
[22:49] <fta> https://edge.launchpad.net/~chromium-daily/+archive/ppa
[22:51] <fta> http://code.google.com/p/qrome/


[11:07] <doko> cjwatson: I don't see any emails for syncs to natty, anything not set up (maybe on my side)?
[11:11] <cjwatson> doko: what sort of syncs?
[11:11] <cjwatson> as in what command line?
[11:12] <doko> sync-source.py -S incoming -f gnat-4.4
[11:12] <cjwatson> you forgot -b
[11:13] <cjwatson> if you don't say '-b doko', it counts as an autosync - autosyncs don't get mails sent
[11:13] <doko> oops
[11:13] <cjwatson> (because it gets really noisy)
[11:19] <cjwatson> doko: is it OK to accept my perl upload at this point?
[11:19] <doko> cjwatson: sure
[11:19] <cjwatson> done
[11:19] <doko> just waiting for the gcc-4.5 build to finish on armel
[11:19] <doko> then we can open
[11:20] <cjwatson> autoconf, automake, debhelper are already up to date; dpkg is merged; could perhaps do with a cdbs merge
[11:20] <cjwatson> I'll look at that now
[11:22] <cjwatson> err.  this looks complicated.  I think a cdbs expert had better merge this.
[11:22] <cjwatson> (e.g. somebody who actually uses cdbs)
[11:23] <cjwatson> we can probably open without cdbs without serious difficulty
[11:25] <doko> asked pitti
[11:26] <persia> Is the copy of all the maverick-updates stuff to natty part of the release-open checklist?
[11:28] <cjwatson> persia: no (and generally can't be)
[11:28] <cjwatson> given that much stuff continues to go only to maverick-updates afterwards, for a while
[11:28] <persia> Can't be?
[11:28] <cjwatson> easy to check later though
[11:28] <persia> Oh, I'd think it would be the last step, after "open the archive for general uploads"
[11:29] <cjwatson> krb5: 1.8.1+dfsg-5ubuntu0.1 > 1.8.1+dfsg-5
[11:29] <cjwatson> openssl: 0.9.8o-1ubuntu4.1 > 0.9.8o-1ubuntu4
[11:29] <cjwatson> postgresql-8.4: 8.4.5-0ubuntu10.10 > 8.4.4-2
[11:29] <cjwatson> update-manager: 1:0.142.20 > 1:0.142.19
[11:29] <cjwatson> I guess I can add a quick note
[11:30] <cjwatson> persia: ok, noted
[11:30] <cjwatson> and I'll copy those four packages over now
[11:31] <persia> cjwatson, thanks.
[11:33] <cjwatson> (list above generated by lp:~cjwatson/+junk/suite-diff)
[11:42] <cjwatson> jml: any progress on the branch import?
[12:37] <doko> cjwatson: perl build failure
[12:38] <cjwatson> ugh
[12:38] <cjwatson> will look
[12:39] <doko> gcc-4.5 probably
[12:41] <cjwatson> nothing in the Debian BTS
[12:42] <doko> if it doesn't fail with 4.5 in maverick, then maybe it's the linaro merge
[12:56] <cjwatson> argh.  silly me for not having primed a local natty mirror straight away
[13:23] <jml> cjwatson: again, slow progress. the CP has landed, I'm waiting on a LOSA to deploy it.
[13:26] <cjwatson> jml: ok, thanks
[13:26] <cjwatson> doko: fails on maverick with gcc-4.5, same way
[13:29] <doko> hrm
[13:29] <cjwatson> http://paste.ubuntu.com/511622/ - diff between old and new _h2ph_pre.ph, looks wrong
[13:30] <cjwatson> I don't like the __DBL_* stuff there, never mind the rest of it
[13:30] <doko> hmm, there should be patches floating around, gentoo and fedora do already build with 4.5
[13:31] <cjwatson> how recently was perl test-built in maverick?
[13:31] <cjwatson> yeah, about to check upstream
[13:34] <persia> lucas ran a reguild not so long ago, but the results seem to have been cleared from the report page: http://udd.debian.org/cgi-bin/ubuntu_ftbfs.cgi
[13:39] <cjwatson> Configure is setting cppsymbols wrongly, so at least that puts the bug somewhere that doesn't take too long to run
[13:39]  * cjwatson dusts off memories of how perl is organised
[14:44] <cjwatson> doko: seems to be basically due to http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=448 rather than anything Linaro-specific.  I can't find a proposed Perl fix in any of the usual places, though, which is very weird
[14:44] <ubot4> gcc.gnu.org bug 448 in c "<stdint.h>-related issues (C99 issues)" [Enhancement,New]
[14:46] <doko> cjwatson: my first thought was, a typo in the pr number :-/
[14:46] <cjwatson> just a very long-lived PR ...
[14:46] <cjwatson> anyway I think that's what introduced the new macros
[14:46] <cjwatson> hardly gcc's fault, though - perl is doing evil things with the headers and probably just has to cope
[14:47]  * cjwatson tries bleadperl to see what happens there
[14:49] <doko> plplot had evil header perl parsing scripts too ...
[14:50] <cjwatson> ah, never mind, I think I found it
[14:50] <cjwatson> http://perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/commitdiff/8d66b3f930dc6d88b524d103e304308ae73a46e7 looks promising
[14:58] <cjwatson> __DBL_DENORM_MIN et al are still wrong though ...
[15:00] <cjwatson> maybe I can just assume that won't be a problem
[15:51] <cjwatson> bingo
[16:09] <cjwatson> doko: do you want python2.6 in before opening?
[16:09] <doko> cjwatson: yes, and preparing 2.7 too
[16:11] <doko> just really waiting for the gcc-4.5 armel build for the general opening. this should finish tomorrow evening
[16:11] <cjwatson> doko: hmm, several patches removed from python2.6 not mentioned in the changelog?
[16:11] <cjwatson>  debian/patches/arm-float.dpatch               |  119 ------
[16:11] <cjwatson>  debian/patches/profiled-build.dpatch          |   36 -
[16:11] <cjwatson>  debian/patches/pydebug-path.dpatch            |  100 -----
[16:11] <cjwatson>  debian/patches/subprocess-eintr-safety.dpatch |   81 ----
[16:12] <doko> it's mentioned
[16:12] <doko> and these are the old .dpatch files
[16:12] <cjwatson> oh, "remove obsolete old dpatch files"
[16:12] <cjwatson> ok, reading better now ...
[16:12] <cjwatson> I got confused because it was attached to something about Lib/locale.py
[16:12] <doko> yes, sorry
[17:05] <jml> incremental progress on the branches. we've deployed the critical bugfix. I've now asked a losa to run the script to make them
[17:06] <jml> if this goes smoothly, I'm going to update the NRCP process to say "ask a LOSA" instead of "Notify James Westby/Jonathan Lange"
[17:08] <cjwatson> great, thanks
[17:08] <jml> turns out we already have internal documentation for doing this :)
[17:09] <jml> https://wiki.canonical.com/InformationInfrastructure/OSA/LPHowTo/BranchUbuntu for the Canonically-enabled
[17:10] <cjwatson> just found it, yes :)


[02:38] <mup> PR snapd#5222 opened: tests: adding fedora-28 to spread.yaml <Created by sergiocazzolato> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5222>
[05:07] <mborzecki> morning
[05:43] <mup> PR snapd#5220 closed: tests: moving test helpers from sh to bash <Created by sergiocazzolato> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5220>
[05:44] <mup> PR snapd#5218 closed: many: expose AppStream IDs (AKA common ID) (2.33) <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5218>
[06:14] <mvo> mwhudson: hey, how does console-conf configures the network? I tried to use it on the WIP core18 images and it seems to be unable to configure the network here
[06:15] <mvo> mwhudson: I will try to get access to the debug logs now
[06:15] <mborzecki> mvo: morning
[06:15] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:16] <mvo> mwhudson: one problem might be that there is (currently) no ifconfig, just the new "ip" on core
[06:25] <mvo> mwhudson: fwiw, netplan itself seems to work (if I add a config manually it generates/applies that)
[06:36] <zyga> good morning
[06:37] <zyga> diddledan: thank you, I will respond
[06:37] <diddledan> :-)
[06:39] <mborzecki> zyga: hey
[06:42] <zyga> :-)
[06:44] <mvo> hey zyga
[06:45] <mvo> niemeyer: could you please also add github.com/snapcore/pc-{i386,amd64}-gadget to the repors that mup monitors and announces here in the channel?
[06:50] <zyga> diddledan: replied now
[06:56] <mup> PR snapd#5223 opened: image: set model.DisplayName() in bootenv as "snap_menuentry" <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5223>
[07:11] <zyga> hmm
[07:12] <zyga> udisks2 is not implicit on classic
[07:12] <zyga> pstolowski|afk: is this intended? AFAIK it was implicit before
[07:12]  * zyga checks logs
[07:16] <pstolowski> morning
[07:16] <pedronis> I don't think we changed anything about that directly
[07:16] <pstolowski> zyga: as pedronis says
[07:17] <pedronis> are we missing some call to addImplicitSlots ?
[07:17] <zyga> no, it's just not marked as implicit
[07:17] <zyga> and the code is not ready for it yet
[07:18] <zyga> I assumed it was implicit on classic because it's such an old interface
[07:18] <zyga> but now I recall it came to be for IOT first
[07:18] <pedronis> afaict we added it for core
[07:18] <pedronis> not classic
[07:18] <pedronis> *afaicr
[07:19] <zyga> yes, that's correct
[07:23] <mborzecki> zyga: that tar exclude pattern is wrong too
[07:46] <mborzecki> pushed a fix to sergio's PR, we should be able to merge it when the build is green
[07:48] <mborzecki> need to make a quick run to the tax office, bb in ~1h or so
[08:08]  * zyga -> coffee
[08:08] <zyga> mvo: can you do one thing for me, open a terminal and run this
[08:08] <zyga> autopkgtest-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud --verbose -r bionic -a amd64
[08:08] <zyga> and let me know if this ever finishes for you
[08:10] <mvo> zyga: what version of autopkgtest do you have installed?
[08:12] <zyga> 5.0.2
[08:17] <mvo> zyga: I have 5.3 and the command works for me - but I'm on bionic. at what release are you?
[08:37] <mborzecki> re
[08:52] <Chipaca> mornin' all
[08:52] <pstolowski> hey Chipaca !
[08:52] <Chipaca> pstolowski!
[08:52] <Chipaca> how's things
[08:53] <pstolowski> it's too hot
[08:53] <pstolowski> and it's only May
[08:54] <Chipaca> pstolowski: "it's only May" seems to be what a lot of people in the UK think
[08:54] <Chipaca> anyhoo
[08:54] <pstolowski> haha
[08:55] <Chipaca> pstolowski: it was really hot yesterday (with almost-proper thunderstorms and everything!) but today there's a nice cool breeze
[09:06] <zyga> Chipaca: so after May comes thunder?
[09:06] <zyga> ;-)
[09:06] <zyga> hey, how are you doing?
[09:07] <Chipaca> zyga: not bad, you?
[09:07] <mborzecki> Thunder sounds like a fitting name for someone from EDL
[09:08] <zyga> Chipaca: dizzy a bit
[09:08] <Chipaca> zyga: you pregnant?
[09:08] <zyga> that'd be new :)
[09:17] <pstolowski> pedronis: updated #5215
[09:17] <mup> PR #5215: ifacestate: improved error handling when creating autoconnect tasks <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5215>
[09:18] <pedronis> pstolowski: I'll look in a bit
[09:39] <mborzecki> mvo: will core18 ship systemd in the snap too?
[09:49] <Chipaca> mborzecki: yes
[09:49] <Chipaca> although … we could ship two core18s
[09:49] <Chipaca> one for classic, with no systemd nor ssh nor nothing
[09:50] <Chipaca> one for classicn't
[09:50]  * Chipaca hides from the wrath of both grammarians and mvoians
[09:51] <mup> PR snapd#5224 opened: interfaces: remove Plug/Slot types <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5224>
[09:53] <mborzecki> Chipaca: fwiw that's ~9-12MB (uncompressed) for just systemd
[09:54] <Chipaca> it's probably not worth it
[09:54] <Chipaca> i mean, given it's classic, bandwidth saving is probably the bigger thing, and it doesn't look like much
[09:55] <Chipaca> it's one photo
[09:57] <zyga> Chipaca: it's interesting given the relative popularity of core18 for booting vs not booting
[09:57] <mup> PR snapd#5214 closed: cmd/snap: check with snapd for unknown sections <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5214>
[09:57] <Chipaca> we should add two new snap types: boot, and jigsaw
[09:58] <mborzecki> jigsaw
[09:59] <mborzecki> well, nobody complained so far so maybe it's not worth it indeed
[09:59] <mvo> Chipaca: two cores is interessting, the one for classic would be ~28MB, the one for core18 is ~42mb or so currently
[10:00] <Chipaca> mvo: why that much smaller?
[10:00] <mborzecki> mvo: that's the *.snap size or du inside?
[10:00] <pedronis> it's very confusing in terms of building, in theory you can build an app for both
[10:00] <pedronis> would always build only against the one for classic?
[10:00] <mvo> Chipaca: systemd+ssh+netplan+console-conf
[10:01] <mvo> Chipaca: but mostly netplan/console-conf which pull in most of python3
[10:01] <mvo> mborzecki: outside
[10:01] <Chipaca> mvo: no, i mean, current core is 87MB
[10:01] <zyga> mvo: also apparmor userspace
[10:01] <pedronis> then you convert one into the other when consider base?
[10:01] <zyga> mvo: that's also python3
[10:01] <Chipaca> pedronis: if we want to explore this, having a boot type might make more sense, exactly for those reasons
[10:01] <mvo> Chipaca: aggressive cleanup, not sure if we can keep it this way, no vi, no ifconfig (just ip) no "less" etc
[10:02] <zyga> mvo: there's always classic for that
[10:02] <zyga> we should also think what classic does on 18
[10:02] <Chipaca> mvo: also no desktop helper afaics
[10:02] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah, thats a bug we should fix soon, those are small
[10:02] <Chipaca> :-)
[10:02]  * mvo thinks
[10:03] <zyga> ironically slim core18 would be a very nice addition to embedded systems running classic distros
[10:03] <Chipaca> mvo: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/using-xdg-open-with-core18/5620?u=chipaca fwiw
[10:03] <zyga> as the size increase is really small
[10:03] <ogra_> why do you care for uncompressed ? (after all it will never be used uncompressed on any disk)
[10:04] <Chipaca> ogra_: i don't think we do :-)
[10:04] <Chipaca> ogra_: but it's worth asking, just to make sure we're talking about the same thing
[10:04] <ogra_> Chipaca, mborzecki mentioned uncompressed sizes above ...
[10:04] <Chipaca> otherwise chinese whispers grows
[10:05] <Chipaca> ogra_: ah, that's just mborzecki being lazy :-p
[10:05]  * Chipaca continues hiding
[10:05] <ogra_> haha
[10:05] <pedronis> Chipaca: my fear it adds complexity and surprises, not sure we are ready to deal with them
[10:05] <ogra_> also on the developer/user side
[10:05] <Chipaca> pedronis: agreed
[10:05] <zyga> pedronis: I agree about that, perhaps it's something to slowly prepare post 18-boot (
[10:05] <Chipaca> still, it does seem like nearly double the size
[10:06] <zyga> (if we slowly march towards that for 20 I would be more comfortable)
[10:06] <Chipaca> so worth considering (as in, writing down the reasons so we can explain to others / our future selves)
[10:06] <pedronis> yea, it seems better as a goal for 20
[10:06] <pedronis> than to cram it in now
[10:06] <pedronis> so many open questions already, and this double some of them
[10:06] <ogra_> if 20 is out embedded systems might not care for an extra 10-20MB on disk anymore :)
[10:07] <zyga> there's one more point of view, it doesn't need to be that more complex, it's just that on 18-boot we keep what we have and rely on it and on 18-non-boot we can start to remove it over time (again, for 20)
[10:07] <pedronis> nothing to do, win ;)
[10:07] <zyga> I mean that on more complex boot case we don't change anything at all
[10:07] <zyga> so that's a win indeed :)
[10:07] <mborzecki> ogra_: that's true
[10:07] <zyga> that case is more complex
[10:07] <ogra_> (finding MMCs below 2GB is already hard today ... ad will actually cost you extra)
[10:07] <zyga> the non boot case is really something we could explore without much risk
[10:07] <ogra_> *and
[10:08] <zyga> ogra_: (note that this doesn't shrink the MMC embedded case at all)
[10:08] <zyga> this is just for making desktop users happier
[10:08] <pedronis> zyga: not quite because  it's also a base, if everbody builds against the full one
[10:08] <pedronis> you cannot change it
[10:08] <zyga> pedronis: mmmm, indeed
[10:08] <pedronis> as in remove stuff
[10:08] <zyga> I take that back then
[10:08] <zyga> because people would have to absolutely build against the stripped down version
[10:08] <zyga> for this to work
[10:08] <pedronis> yea, that's the tricky bit
[10:08] <zyga> we might explore a 19 base
[10:08] <zyga> with this property
[10:08] <pedronis> that makes it hard to pull off
[10:08] <zyga> to cook it for 20
[10:09] <pedronis> while everything is in flux
[10:09] <Chipaca> I mean, we could always do magic and replace core18 with core18-classic on classic
[10:09] <Chipaca> down the road
[10:09] <zyga> a new base, 19, without any boot support
[10:09] <Chipaca> if we needed to
[10:09] <zyga> Chipaca: yes
[10:09] <niemeyer> mvo: Ack, will do
[10:09] <mvo> we would have to ensure that the ABI of core18 is also provided by core18-boot but I agree it should not be a 18 goal, its already quite some work ahead as it is
[10:11]  * zyga likes the core19 as an experiment
[10:11] <Chipaca> niemeyer: good morning!
[10:11] <zyga> but needs to be supported as short as 19.x ubuntu
[10:11] <ogra_> call it core20 from the start and just iterate ;)
[10:11] <Chipaca> niemeyer: i could use a bit of bikeshed paint on 'refresh.keep-inactive'
[10:11] <zyga> ogra_: I don't think that's good, it may not be compatible with 20
[10:12] <ogra_> ten call it core-experimental ;)
[10:12] <ogra_> +then
[10:12] <Chipaca> so, even cores stable, odd cores devel
[10:12]  * Chipaca should stop putting crazy ideas out lest they continue to be taken seriously
[10:13] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Hey, good morning
[10:13]  * ogra_ quickly writes a softpedia article about Chipaca's masterplan of odd/even cores
[10:13] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Sure, happy to bring my paint :)
[10:13] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Is there a PR up already?
[10:13] <Chipaca> niemeyer: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5207
[10:13] <mup> PR #5207: overlord/{config,snap}state: the number of inactive revisions is config <Created by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5207>
[10:14] <Chipaca> niemeyer: i have it deconflicted and with tests locally, hoping to have a definitive name to rename things and do a single push
[10:14] <Chipaca> actually still missing some tests though
[10:14]  * Chipaca gets back to work
[10:14] <ogra_> mvo, is there a chance that with core18 the pi config options can be moved out of core ? its so displaced there :/
[10:15] <pedronis> mvo: btw I plan to do a proper review of #5217 today
[10:15] <mup> PR #5217: asserts,image: add support for models with bases <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5217>
[10:15] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Thanks, looking
[10:15] <mvo> pedronis: \o/
[10:16] <pedronis> ogra_:   well    we support calling those config   "system" as well now
[10:16] <mvo> ogra_: we have an alias for those now: system
[10:16] <mvo> heh :) snap
[10:16] <pedronis> because of the bases stuff, but still no final plan
[10:16] <pedronis> about the internals
[10:17] <mvo> ogra_: whats your concern? where the code lifes? or the config schema (core.pi2-foo)?
[10:21] <ogra_> mvo, that you have them on *every* UbuntuCore ... they should live in the gadget... it just makes me itch inside every time i think about it
[10:24] <ogra_> core should be generic IMHO ... i always thought of the "pi config options in core" as an interim solution
[10:24] <ogra_> and the swith to 18 seems like a natural moment to move that around to the correct place
[10:29]  * zyga needs to, perhaps, redesign a small fragment of snap-update-ns path handling
[10:29] <zyga> pen & paper time
[10:30] <niemeyer> Chipaca: Reviewed
[10:30] <Chipaca> 'ppreciated
[11:05] <pedronis> ogra_: the issue at the time was that we would have needed some mechanism for snapd to filter what can be set or not, just letting the gadget write the file was deemed too unsafe
[11:06] <ogra_> pedronis, yeah, i reemember why we are where we are, it would just be nice to move out of that situation eventually and moving to a new core fells like the natural time to do so
[11:07] <ogra_> *feels
[11:08] <ogra_> (and i'm aware that it moved out of core into snapd at some point ... which i find even worse)
[11:09] <jamesh> niemeyer: do you have any opinions on the the interface naming in this PR? https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5184#discussion_r190942503
[11:09] <mup> PR #5184: interfaces: add desktop-{contacts,calendar}-service interfaces <Created by jhenstridge> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5184>
[11:10] <zyga> jamesh: hey!
[11:10] <jamesh> hi zyga
[11:10] <zyga> jamesh: there was a user a while ago asking about how to use the snap with common themes
[11:10] <zyga> is there anything I could relay him to?
[11:12] <jamesh> zyga: there's a published gtk-common-themes snap now (hopefully with the store allowing autoconnect soon), but at the moment it relies on adding a bunch of boilerplate to application snaps in order to use it
[11:13] <zyga> right, is there anything that explains that and how to use it
[11:13] <jamesh> I don't think we've got any docs on what that boilerplate should look like yet
[11:14] <niemeyer> jamesh: Looking
[11:15] <jamesh> zyga: gtk3-demo-snapcraft.yaml in https://gist.github.com/jhenstridge/7c1518dfb264014e28558fd03a1ed68a is close to what's needed (it doesn't have the default-provider listed though)
[11:15] <jamesh> niemeyer: thanks!
[11:15] <zyga> jamesh: excellent, thank you!
[11:17] <Chipaca> where are we documenting config options?
[11:17] <Chipaca> things like refresh.hold etc
[11:17] <mborzecki> Chipaca: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/system-options/87
[11:18] <cachio_> mvo, hey
[11:20] <niemeyer> jamesh: np, and thanks for the PR.. commented there
[11:21] <mup> PR snapd#5207 closed: overlord/{config,snap}state: the number of inactive revisions is config <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5207>
[11:21]  * Chipaca -> lunch
[11:21] <cachio_> mvo, about the test snap-core-symlinks, it just works on google, but on the boards or ubuntu-core the core snaps in /var/lib/snapd/snaps are not linked to seeds
[11:22] <jamesh> niemeyer: thank you
[11:23] <jamesh> niemeyer: the main issue here is that these interfaces might be what we'd consider "legacy" interfaces, and it isn't obvious that we'd want to extend them to cover more than just EDS
[11:24] <niemeyer> jamesh: In which sense is it legacy?
[11:24] <jamesh> niemeyer: that's why jdstrand was gave eds-contacts as a possibility
[11:24] <niemeyer> jamesh: I mean, other than it being for old services
[11:24] <jamesh> niemeyer: that EDS hasn't been designed for confinement, so these are basically "all or nothing" interfaces
[11:25] <jamesh> we can't give an app access to one address book or one calendar
[11:25] <jamesh> (or one contact within an address book)
[11:25] <niemeyer> Hmm
[11:26] <jamesh> niemeyer: so if we ever get such an API, it would have quite different semantics to these snapd interfaces
[11:26] <jamesh> (e.g. it might be quite safe to auto-connect an interface giving an app access to an app specific calendar)
[11:26] <niemeyer> jamesh: Would we have an interface at all if that takes place?
[11:26] <cachio_> mvo, https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/MbHN3jTfS6/
[11:26] <niemeyer> jamesh: I mean, how would we allow access to _one_ contact
[11:27] <cachio_> mvo, this is starting the image, no spread tests involved
[11:27] <niemeyer> jamesh: Other than having an interface that would prevent general access in either case
[11:28] <niemeyer> jamesh: In other words, would we have a "contacts-service" interface at all when that happens?
[11:28] <jamesh> niemeyer: it would have to rely on the service mediating access similar to portals.  I think we had something like that as a trusted helper on Ubuntu Phone?
[11:28] <niemeyer> jamesh: Right, exactly
[11:29] <niemeyer> jamesh: So I see two possibilities once that takes place:
[11:30] <niemeyer> 1) We have no interface at all, and grant the access in the base profile
[11:30] <jamesh> niemeyer: the other naming issue brought up was KDE: it has its own backend with its own IPC (Akonadi).  It isn't clear whether that could be added to these interfaces or not: IIRC it isn't D-Bus based, so it might be giving access to a lot more than "only contacts" or "only calendars"
[11:30] <niemeyer> 2) We have an interface, and require that to be connected to ask for a contact even then
[11:31] <niemeyer> jamesh: In (1), we might just obsolete "contacts-service" (or any other name we pick)
[11:31] <niemeyer> jamesh: In (2), I see no harm in providing access to both services in the same interface..
[11:31] <niemeyer> jamesh: We're still confining the best we can for the available means
[11:32] <jamesh> niemeyer: right.  So I think the suggestion to use "eds-contacts" would be to avoid squatting on a name we might want to use for the possible non-legacy interface
[11:32] <niemeyer> jamesh: That KDE case needs to be understood indeed..
[11:33] <niemeyer> jamesh: I get it.. the rationale above provide some feedback on why I suspect that might not be an issue
[11:33] <niemeyer> jamesh: That said, the KDE case needs to be better understood
[11:33] <niemeyer> jamesh: To make sure it's not evidence of a larger problem
[11:34] <niemeyer> jamesh: We might try to use similar logic there, though.. what are the potential choices we have?
[11:34] <niemeyer> jamesh: If KDE cannot be split, no possible interface name will suit it
[11:35] <niemeyer> jamesh: If it can, the actual interface names do not matter
[11:35] <jamesh> niemeyer: https://techbase.kde.org/KDE_PIM/Akonadi/Architecture says it is an IMAP-like protocol over a unix domain socket, with the store covering contacts, calendars, email, and other types
[11:35] <niemeyer> jamesh: That makes it sound like it'd need a custom interface name for it
[11:35] <niemeyer> "akonadi" being the obvious candidate
[11:36] <jamesh> so it doesn't sound like we could restrict based on data type
[11:37] <jamesh> I'm kind of leaning towards eds-contacts and eds-calendar, but don't feel too strongly about it (I'm basically just waiting for a decision so I can update the PR)
[11:37] <niemeyer> jamesh: I'm not strongly in favor of something either, but let's please not go with "eds"
[11:38] <niemeyer> That makes no sense to pretty much anyone that is not a frequent user of the software
[11:39] <jamesh> niemeyer: I'd agree that "eds" on its own doesn't mean much.  But combined with "contacts" or "calendar" it has meaning
[11:39] <jamesh> "akonadi" as an interface name would be equally impenetrable
[11:40] <niemeyer> jamesh: Sort of.. google for both
[11:40] <zyga> we also have the interface names
[11:40] <zyga> but how about gnome-contacts, gnome-calendar
[11:40] <zyga> s/names/summaries/
[11:40] <zyga> and kde-{contacts,calendar}
[11:40] <zyga> better than both eds and akowhatever
[11:41] <zyga> (is akonadi a word or an acronym or just random letters?)
[11:41] <niemeyer> jamesh: Another perspective: are there any other calendar services?
[11:41] <niemeyer> zyga: Doesn't matter much
[11:42] <niemeyer> jamesh: .. and even if there aren't, what if a new one is created.. would we want individual interfaces for all of them?
[11:42] <niemeyer> jamesh: If so, why did we choose to bundle "password-manager-service"?
[11:44] <jamesh> niemeyer: well, ideally everyone would move towards a common confinement friendly API that satisfies your scenario (1).  So apps don't necessarily program to a single one
[11:45] <niemeyer> jamesh: The ideal scenario doesn't help us right now
[11:45] <cjwatson> akonadi> "named after the oracle goddess of justice in Ghana" says wikipedia
[11:45] <niemeyer> jamesh: Per early points, in the ideal scenario we can just obsolete everything else and have a base profile
[11:45] <jamesh> niemeyer: right, but it is relevant to "what if someone invents yet another data store?" question
[11:46] <niemeyer> jamesh: Right.. the question was supposing that this is not an ideal scenario
[11:48] <niemeyer> jamesh: Another piece in the puzzle: we have unity8-contacts and unity8-calendar, and unity8-pim-common already
[11:48] <niemeyer> So the scenario of having multiple "legacy" calendars is not theory
[11:49] <niemeyer> Do we have any snaps using these interfaces today?
[11:50] <niemeyer> I'm tempted to obsolete these interfaces, or potentially remove them if we have a trivial number of snaps published that leverage them and we can communicate with publishers
[11:50] <jamesh> niemeyer: I think the unity8-* ones are from the unsuccessful attempt to port Ubuntu Phone to snappy
[11:50] <niemeyer> and then not do the same mistake again
[11:52] <jamesh> I know there's other phone interfaces we wrote that my team wrote that are effectively unused (e.g. thumbnailer-service + storage-framework-service)
[11:55] <niemeyer> Besides having an "akonadi" interface, we might also have a "pim-service" interface that aggregates both calendar-service and contacts-service
[11:56] <niemeyer> Or, alternatively, we might go the opposite way and enable akonadi only if both interfaces are connected
[11:56] <niemeyer> That's all somewhat magical, though
[11:57] <niemeyer> Having it explicit still feels saner
[11:57] <jamesh> niemeyer: at the moment, the primary use case for these interfaces was to be able to snap the gnome-contacts and gnome-calendar applications, and probably have the store allow these apps to autoconnect
[11:58] <jamesh> niemeyer: I'm not sure how many other apps would actually use them, since we're talking about highly sensitive personal data
[11:58] <niemeyer> jamesh: Given all the conversation so far, gut feeling is still that "calendar-service" and "contacts-service" gets us to a reasonable place
[11:58] <niemeyer> Very clear what data is at stake.. reusable if we find more use cases
[11:59] <niemeyer> Doesn't prevent other alternatives
[11:59] <jamesh> okay
[11:59] <niemeyer> Follows existing conventions that are in use
[12:00] <jamesh> I'll update to use that then.
[12:00] <niemeyer> Thanks for the discussion
[12:04] <pedronis> pstolowski|lunch: reviewed #5215
[12:04] <mup> PR #5215: ifacestate: improved error handling when creating autoconnect tasks <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5215>
[12:04] <jdstrand> jamesh (cc niemeyer): for some historical context-- Ubuntu Touch had the same problem and used the same technology (eds). there was no application isolation with eds. also, unity8-contacts and unit8-calendar happen to also use eds; the difference with those interfaces is that they are designed with a slot implementation in mind,not as an implicit calssic interface
[12:05] <jdstrand> on touch there was an addressbook service and iirc something for calendar, but they didn't provide any isolation. it was always planned they would at some point
[12:06] <mvo> cachio_: thanks, thats interessting. I hvae a look in a little bit
[12:07] <jdstrand> jamesh: re akonadi and imap over unix> yuck :)
[12:09] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Wouldn't the interface be the same, whether it's designed with a slot upfront or not?
[12:09] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Over time we had multiple cases that migrated towards offering a slot
[12:11] <Chipaca> popey: 'snap set system refresh.retain=N' now on master
[12:12] <jdstrand> niemeyer: it is essentially the same, yes (in fact, I compared them as part of my review for these new ones). the only difference is that jamesh' new ones we slightly more specific in some cases (which was understandable since we had a specific snap's label on the slot side)
[12:13] <jdstrand> I figured we would probably deprecate the unity8 ones too
[12:14] <jdstrand> (since these new ones were targetting real world use cases)
[12:16] <jdstrand> niemeyer: the way that things are going with portals and classic desktop, I'm not sure we'll every have a slot side implementation for these new services, but I wouldn't rule it out
[12:17] <jdstrand> I should have said 'new services' :)
[12:18] <Chipaca> mvo: what's #5213 waiting for?
[12:18] <mup> PR #5213: snapcraft: run with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5213>
[12:19] <Chipaca> oh maybe the last +1 is really recent :-)
[12:20]  * zyga -> walk
[12:23] <jamesh> jdstrand: the unity8-* interfaces seem to be missing some rules to talk to the source registry.  I wonder if they were relying on the com.canonical.pim.* interfaces for discovery instead?
[12:25] <pedronis> Chipaca: yes
[12:26] <pstolowski|lunch> pedronis: thank you!
[12:28] <mup> PR snapd#5213 closed: snapcraft: run with DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=nocheck <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5213>
[12:32] <mup> PR snapd#5225 opened: selftest: add new selftest package that tests squashfs mounting <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5225>
[12:34] <jdstrand> jamesh: I wondered that myself. iirc the unity8 ones didn't use path= everywhere so perhaps it was covered by them be less specific. alternatively, those are buggy and we never saw the bugs cause no one used them
[12:34] <mvo> cachio_: what ubuntu-image do you use to create the image that then does not have the symlinks? the ubuntu-image deb or the ubuntu-image snap? I wonder if the "wrong" snap prepare-image is used here (the snap embedds that)
[12:35] <jdstrand> jamesh: (I'm recollecting from the other day's review since I'm pulled aside atm)
[12:35] <cachio_> mvo, the deb
[12:38] <mvo> cachio_: and the machine that build the image had snapd 2.33~rc1 installed?
[12:39] <cachio_> mvo, 16-2.33~rc1+git758.0a96f21 (4764)
[12:39] <cachio_> it is edge
[12:42] <mvo> cachio_: ok, I will try to reproduce
[13:14] <mvo> jdstrand: could the review tools be updated for the new snapd snap? its a bit unusal, but not that much
[13:14] <mvo> jdstrand: it will be uploaded nightly as a snap now
[13:16] <jdstrand> mvo: it is a normal app snap? what do you want updated in the tools. I see snap-confine (fine). is that external symlink valid?
[13:16] <jdstrand> package contains external symlinks: lib/udev/snappy-app-dev
[13:18] <mvo> jdstrand: its a normal app snap. the symlink should be fine, I can make it relative though if that helps
[13:19] <mvo> jdstrand: maybe I can even remove it entirely, its just for backward compatiblity. I need to look carefully
[13:20] <jdstrand> mvo: well, the idea behind the test is that a symlink to outside the snap isn't guaranteed to have the target present and so may be broken. in this case, it's unclear, I mean, the snap is providing the target...
[13:24] <jdstrand> mvo: I've fixed the snap-confine issue in trunk. I need to add some code for the symlink. let me know if it is needed
[13:25] <zyga> jdstrand: ping me for the review, I'm always curious about that
[13:38] <mup> PR snapd#5208 closed: interface hooks: update old AutoConnect methods <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5208>
[13:40] <zyga> niemeyer: my understanding of the problem of parallel installs and classic confinement https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/special-bind-mount-for-snap-instances-including-classic-confinement/5666
[13:48] <Chipaca> mvo: is current master 2.35?
[13:48] <mvo> Chipaca: 2.34
[13:48] <Chipaca> mvo: ah! i thought we'd split that already
[13:48] <Chipaca> ok
[13:48] <Chipaca> mvo: (asking for the "available since" thing in the docs)
[13:49] <pedronis> Chipaca: we split 2.33
[13:49] <pedronis> and now that is in beta
[13:52] <zyga> 2.36
[13:52] <zyga> because we could to show we, on average, increment once a month ;D
[14:01] <Chipaca> zyga: quick quiz for you: how many months are there in a year
[14:03] <zyga> Chipaca: how many do you need?
[14:03] <Chipaca> zyga: no that's the _russian's_ line
[14:03] <Chipaca> you're getting your jokes mixed up
[14:11] <mvo> Chipaca: about 5225> you asked about squashfs without xz compression - I assume you ask for this to present a better error message?
[14:12] <Chipaca> mvo: yes
[14:13] <mup> PR snapd#5216 closed: many: holding refresh on metered connections (2.33) <Created by bboozzoo> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5216>
[14:14] <Chipaca> mvo: ie do the check for the xz one, if that fails do the same check with the non-xz one
[14:14] <Chipaca> mvo: OTOH i'm not too happy about having a 4k var, having two would be right out :-)
[14:16] <mvo> Chipaca: I think I can compress it, let me see
[14:16] <Chipaca> mvo: dude, it's a squashfs :-)
[14:17] <Chipaca> mvo: but, depending on how smart you want to be, you could drop the trailing zeroes and pad it when testing
[14:17] <Chipaca> mvo: I can show you what I mean if you want
[14:17] <mvo> Chipaca: yeah, this is what I had in mind, the zeros
[14:18] <Chipaca> mvo: also perhaps encoding/ascii85 instead of encoding/base64
[14:18] <mvo> Chipaca: is there a good cmdline tool?
[14:18] <Chipaca> $ ascii85
[14:18] <Chipaca> The program 'ascii85' is currently not installed. You can install it by typing:
[14:18] <Chipaca> sudo apt install ruby-ascii85
[14:18] <mvo> Chipaca: http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xXxNzZZ5Xr/
[14:19] <mvo> Chipaca: hrm, I pass, I don't want to install ruby just for that :)
[14:19] <Chipaca> mvo: me neither :-)
[14:21] <Chipaca> mvo: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/pmv3FYP5HB/
[14:22] <Chipaca> mvo: but that's probably cheating
[14:22] <Chipaca> (also not exactly the same file because i was lazy in creating the canary.txt so don't use it as is)
[14:22] <mvo> Chipaca: with gzip its 309 byte
[14:22] <mvo> Chipaca: hm, 237
[14:22] <Chipaca> mvo: and without gzip, but instead dropping trailing \0's?
[14:23] <mvo> Chipaca: no idea, I was too lazy to write code for this
[14:23] <Chipaca> :-)
[14:24] <mvo> Chipaca: thanks a lot for your suggestion(s) - much nicer (and smaller) now
[14:24] <Chipaca> mvo: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/xNTmd4vYbb/
[14:25] <Chipaca> mvo: the first one is base64, the second ascii85, both trimming trailing \0's, no gzip
[14:26] <mvo> Chipaca: 296 - nice
[14:36] <Chipaca> mvo: code for it if needed: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/sY67dKbb6J/
[14:37] <mvo> Chipaca: thank you, I will ponder about it. my gut feeling is that I want to be able to construct the "squashfs.image" string using std unix tools, hence gzip. but maybe I'm overly lazy here. going from 309byte to 200ish is a nice feature
[14:37] <Chipaca> mvo: either is fine tbh
[14:38] <Chipaca> mvo: make it a const instead of a var and you're home
[14:38] <Chipaca> (or make the var inside the function)
[14:38] <mvo> Chipaca: *cough* good point, thanks again
[14:38] <Chipaca> (same thing, as the const will still be there, unnamed)
[14:46] <mup> PR snapd#5224 closed: interfaces: remove Plug/Slot types <Created by stolowski> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5224>
[15:04] <mvo> cachio_: I tried to reproduce the issue with ubunut-image and the symlinks. I installed ubuntu-image from the deb and refreshed my core to beta. snap version shows 2.33~rc1 for the snap. when I build an image with that combination I get the symlinks.
[15:05] <mvo> cachio_: I'm trying the reboot problem now
[15:08] <cachio_> mvo, seemlink issue is happening with the regular beta image
[15:08] <cachio_> if you install the beta image created with ubuntu image you get the symlinks issue
[15:09] <cachio_> then when you reboot from stable to beta and run the auto-refresh test you get the reboot issue
[15:09] <cachio_> you can reproduce both with pc-amd64 or pc-i386
[15:11] <mvo> cachio_: ok, so symlink issue: I did "ubuntu-image --channel=beta pc-amd64.model" and booted the resulted image (with systemd.debug-shell=1) and in there I can see the symlinks. what steps do I need to do to trigger the issue?
[15:12] <mvo> cachio_: for the unexpected reboot> what do I need to do here? "ubuntu-image --channel=stable pc-amd64.model" and then "snap refresh --beta core" and then run the autorefresh tests?
[15:14] <cachio_> mvo, well start the vm
[15:14] <cachio_> I do
[15:15] <cachio_> kvm -snapshot -smp 2 -m 2000 -redir tcp:8022::22 -nographic -serial mon:stdio <PATH_TO_IMAGE>
[15:16] <cachio_> mvo, to create the image
[15:16] <cachio_> https://github.com/sergiocazzolato/validator/blob/master/create.sh
[15:16] <cachio_> I use that script
[15:16] <cachio_> with params: beta pc-amd64
[15:18] <cachio_> mvo, for unexpecte reboot
[15:20] <cachio_> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/16/stable/current/ubuntu-core-16-amd64.img.xz
[15:20] <cachio_> then reboot to beta
[15:20] <cachio_> refresh
[15:20] <cachio_> and after the reboot, you run auto-refresh test
[15:20] <cachio_> mvo, I see there are new stable images
[15:21] <cachio_> I was using the factory ones which are older
[15:21] <cachio_> I am using
[15:24] <cachio_> zyga, on fedora 28 the owner for /home/test/.snap is root instead of test
[15:25] <cachio_> zyga, do you know if is it ok?
[15:29] <jdstrand> niemeyer: hey, I noticed in https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/classic-confinement-for-postman/5625/6 I no longer have a way to mark something as 'done' (ie, the little checkbox item I use from time to time). is the removal of this ability intentional?
[15:34] <noise][1> i seem to have lost that ability as well
[15:34] <Chipaca> jdstrand: noise][1: we bumped versions friday, maybe it's a regression?
[15:34] <jdstrand> that's what I was wondering
[15:35] <jdstrand> I wonder if we need to have an additional acl or something
[15:35] <jdstrand> I vaguely recall that was needed before... by only vaguely
[15:35] <jdstrand> but*
[15:35] <Chipaca> jdstrand: I can't find it on topics I've created myself either
[15:36] <mup> PR # closed: snapd#4416, snapd#4700, snapd#4767, snapd#4889, snapd#4917, snapd#4940, snapd#4951, snapd#4996, snapd#5030, snapd#5081, snapd#5122, snapd#5162, snapd#5170,
[15:36] <mup> snapd#5176, snapd#5178, snapd#5184, snapd#5187, snapd#5197, snapd#5204, snapd#5215, snapd#5217, snapd#5219, snapd#5221, snapd#5222, snapd#5223, snapd#5225
[15:37] <Chipaca> jdstrand: noise][1: it's a plugin, maybe the plugin needs updating?
[15:37] <mup> PR # opened: snapd#4416, snapd#4700, snapd#4767, snapd#4889, snapd#4917, snapd#4940, snapd#4951, snapd#4996, snapd#5030, snapd#5081, snapd#5122, snapd#5162, snapd#5170,
[15:37] <mup> snapd#5176, snapd#5178, snapd#5184, snapd#5187, snapd#5197, snapd#5204, snapd#5215, snapd#5217, snapd#5219, snapd#5221, snapd#5222, snapd#5223, snapd#5225
[15:37] <Chipaca> we used to have a _lot_ of plugins, now there's just one
[15:37] <Chipaca> niemeyer: ^?
[15:38] <mup> PR # closed: snapd#4416, snapd#4700, snapd#4767, snapd#4889, snapd#4917, snapd#4940, snapd#4951, snapd#4996, snapd#5030, snapd#5081, snapd#5122, snapd#5162, snapd#5170,
[15:38] <mup> snapd#5176, snapd#5178, snapd#5184, snapd#5187, snapd#5197, snapd#5204, snapd#5215, snapd#5217, snapd#5219, snapd#5221, snapd#5222, snapd#5223, snapd#5225
[15:39] <mup> PR # opened: snapd#4416, snapd#4700, snapd#4767, snapd#4889, snapd#4917, snapd#4940, snapd#4951, snapd#4996, snapd#5030, snapd#5081, snapd#5122, snapd#5162, snapd#5170,
[15:39] <mup> snapd#5176, snapd#5178, snapd#5184, snapd#5187, snapd#5197, snapd#5204, snapd#5215, snapd#5217, snapd#5219, snapd#5221, snapd#5222, snapd#5223, snapd#5225
[15:44] <zyga> cachio_: hmm, /.snap is used for store auth typically, I think that's not okay but I don't know the reason
[16:07] <mup> PR snapd#5226 opened: data: add systemd user environment generator <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5226>
[16:12] <cachio_> zyga, this is fedora 28, -rw-------. 1 root root   44 May 29 14:48 auth.json
[16:12] <cachio_> and this 27, -rw-r--r--. 1 root root   44 May 29 15:04 auth.json
[16:12] <cachio_> this is making fail some tests
[16:13] <cachio_> same for .snap dir
[16:13] <zyga> does it fail if you run just one test? I mean if you add restore-each and just check the ownership and mode, will this show the difference
[16:13] <zyga> also before you said it's owned by test user not by root, so which one is it?
[16:14] <cachio_> zyga, I just ran 1 test
[16:14] <cachio_> and it failed
[16:14] <cachio_> so it is ok if it is owned by root
[16:14] <zyga> is umask different?
[16:14] <cachio_> but test user should be able to read
[16:15] <cachio_> zyga, yes
[16:15] <cachio_> 0022 and 0077
[16:16] <zyga> well that looks like it
[16:18]  * zyga boots f27
[16:18] <zyga> I need to install f28 now
[16:18] <zyga> why does everything hurt today,  ouch
[16:19] <cachio_> hehee
[16:19] <cachio_> it it the weather
[16:19] <zyga> it feels like a flu
[16:19] <pstolowski> pedronis: ugh, that auto connect conflict logic needs to be even more complex than what you suggested in the comment to the PR (i think). i think we need that FindSnapsWaitingFor helper i had before
[16:19] <zyga> the weather is perfect, it's close to 30C and very sunny all day (weeks) long
[16:21] <cachio_> nice, 26C here
[16:21] <cachio_> but winter is comming
[16:21] <zyga> here's still spring, I wonder how summer will look like
[16:21] <zyga> 30C during daytime, 17 at night
[16:22] <cachio_> it will be hot
[16:24] <zyga> I hope summer time will be more wet
[16:24] <zyga> there are a lot of forest fires otherwise
[16:24] <zyga> and when it is wet and hot there's an explosion of mushroom to pick
[16:24] <cachio_> hehehe
[16:24] <cachio_> be careful
[16:25] <zyga> I will spend most of school holidays with my parents a bit north of here, with the kids
[16:25] <cachio_> there are poisoned ones
[16:25] <zyga> nowadays with LTE anywhere it's really not a problem
[16:25] <zyga> and with the upgraded data cap (1TB) I won't have to think twice about data
[16:25] <zyga> yes, you have to be careful
[16:25] <zyga> I only pick those that I always picked as a child
[16:26] <cachio_> well, here if you leave the city the LTE connection is pretty bad
[16:26] <zyga> there are several very safe species
[16:26] <zyga> outside of cities you usually get 3/4G
[16:26] <sil2100> mvo: heh... it looks like the VM is not the problem - seems like by default is doesn't seem to be able to build the snap correctly on anything below bionic
[16:27] <zyga> I've been to the same place in 2016 (when I still had a MacBook for work)
[16:27] <sil2100> mvo: mismatch between libc in the part itself and the one on the system
[16:27] <zyga> but this time I have a better modem so I think it will be ok
[16:27] <sil2100> (or something similar)
[16:27] <zyga> and they keep expanding the network to cover more roads connecting bigger cities so I may even get LTE now
[16:27] <cachio_> you have a 1TB plan ?
[16:27] <zyga> cachio_: yes
[16:28] <cachio_> that's pretty good
[16:28] <zyga> cachio_: it's a data plan, it costs about 20 euro a month
[16:28] <zyga> no phone calls included
[16:28] <sil2100> mvo: I was just able to snap core18 correctly on a bionic VM - too bad travis doesn't seem to support bionic, it tries to pull things from precise in that case
[16:28] <zyga> cachio_: my phone plan is different but I don't know what it is really, it came with a free sim for a laptop that gives me extra 100GB
[16:29] <cachio_> zyga, zyga, it is pretty chip
[16:29] <zyga> cachio_: and I still use my Spanish SIM which has 12GB of roaming everywhere so I stick to it instead of switching
[16:29] <cachio_> hehee
[16:29] <cachio_> zyga, conectivity here is expensive and not good
[16:30] <cachio_> 10GB is about 40 euroos
[16:30] <zyga> ouch!
[16:30] <zyga> I wonder if my roaming would work there
[16:30] <zyga> (the one from Vodafone.es)
[16:35] <mvo> sil2100: hm, hm, ok. thats really unfortunate. but also slightly strange because I can "snapcraft cleanbuild" core18 and that will use a xenial lxd container unless I'm confusing things
[16:37] <zyga> Chipaca: lol, https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/npm-fails-worldwide-with-err-418-im-a-teapot-error/
[16:37] <Chipaca> zyga: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[16:38] <cachio_> mvo, could you reproduce any of those errors?
[16:38] <sil2100> mvo: I didn't know about cleanbuild!
[16:38] <sil2100> Let me experiment with that one
[16:42] <zyga> cachio_: fedora 28 installing now
[16:43] <cachio_> zyga, great
[16:44] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Not intentional, looking into it
[16:45] <sil2100> mvo: how do you run snapcraft cleanbuild so that the snapcraft inside the container is run with root? Since I seem to be getting errors when it's attempting to mknod
[16:46] <zyga> cachio_: booting now
[16:47] <zyga> cachio_: f28 umask is 0002
[16:48] <cachio_> mmm
[16:48] <cachio_> zyga, you mean in desktop?
[16:49] <zyga> yes
[16:50] <cachio_> in my desktop too
[16:50] <cachio_> but in the cloud image is different
[16:51] <cachio_> and the umask for root?
[16:52] <cachio_> 0022?
[16:52] <zyga> ah, root is 0022
[16:52] <niemeyer> jdstrand: We lost the plugin on the upgrade
[16:53] <cachio_> so I should chnage deafult nmask in the google image and that's it?
[16:53] <cachio_> umask
[16:54] <zyga> cachio_: I think we should handle this in spread.yaml
[16:54] <zyga> as otherwise we will get a "magic" image that is not representative of fedora
[16:54] <cachio_> zyga, ok, I'll add that to the PR in that case
[16:55] <zyga> cachio_: note that on f27 the same umask is used
[16:55] <zyga> 0022 for root, 0002 for user
[16:57] <niemeyer> jdstrand: deej will bring it back this afternoon
[16:57] <jdstrand> niemeyer: cool, thanks! :)
[17:07] <kyrofa> Hey Chipaca, give me some love: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapd-rest-api-expose-bind-mount-root-in-tried-snaps/5608
[17:07] <Chipaca> kyrofa: just looking into that
[17:07] <kyrofa> Chipaca, ha!
[17:07] <kyrofa> Hey niemeyer, mind if I schedule a quick chat about https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/fixing-the-snapcraft-cache-lp-1582469/4127 ?
[17:08] <sil2100> mvo: btw. I'm constantly wondering, is the part name 'boostrap' a typo or is it intentional? ;)
[17:13] <cachio_> zyga, so, in fedora 28 image the umask is ok
[17:13] <cachio_> 0022
[17:13] <zyga> cachio_: hold on, as root or as user?
[17:14] <cachio_> but then I updated it to make the selimux permissive and the umask went to 0077
[17:14] <cachio_> as root
[17:14] <cachio_> I did dnf makecache and dnf upgrade -y
[17:15] <zyga> that's ... weird
[17:15] <zyga> what did you do to make selinux permissive?
[17:15] <cachio_> and reboot
[17:15] <cachio_> sed -i 's/SELINUX=.*/SELINUX=permissive/g' /etc/selinux/config
[17:16]  * zyga tries
[17:20] <niemeyer> kyrofa: Not at all, thanks for that
[17:22] <zyga> cachio_: rebooting
[17:22]  * niemeyer => break
[17:23] <zyga> cachio_: I changed SELINUX to permissive and rebooted, umask wasn't affected
[17:23] <zyga> cachio_: there must be another modification at play
[17:25] <cachio_> zyga, I'll regenerated the fedora image
[17:26] <cachio_> same than yesterday but without reboot
[17:26] <cachio_> checking how it was generated
[17:27] <cachio_> zyga, it is the same
[17:27] <zyga> meaning? it's the same as mine or the same as yours before the regexen?
[17:27] <zyga> regeneration
[17:28] <cachio_> 0077 after the regeneration
[17:29] <zyga> hmm
[17:29] <zyga> this was based on the cloud image?
[17:29] <zyga> I will try that
[17:29] <zyga> how do you make the image?
[17:29] <cachio_> now I am running a regeneration which just changes the selinux config bht it is not updating
[17:29] <cachio_> the base fedora 28 image it is already created
[17:30] <zyga> how was it created?
[17:30] <cachio_> with this script
[17:30] <cachio_> https://github.com/snapcore/spread-images/blob/master/tasks/google/add-fedora-28-64/task.yaml
[17:31] <zyga> thanks
[17:32] <zyga> I'm pulling the same disk now
[17:36] <cachio_> zyga, so, using the fedora 28 image
[17:36] <cachio_> which has umask 0022 for root
[17:37] <mvo> sil2100: *cough* typo but funny
[17:37] <cachio_> zyga, wait
[17:37] <cachio_> I think I know which is hte issue
[17:38] <zyga> :-)
[17:38] <zyga> I just booted the image
[17:38] <mvo> cachio_: I had no luck with the missing symlinks, but I ran manually not from your script. I didn't manage to try the second one unfortunately
[17:38] <cachio_> on the cleanup we are deleting /root/.bashrc
[17:38] <mvo> sil2100: iirc it is run as root
[17:38] <zyga> oh
[17:39] <cachio_> mvo, ok, I'll try again with the latest changes
[17:40] <cachio_> mvo, it is weird beause it failed in all the runs the symlink test
[17:40] <mvo> cachio_: yeah, I can try from the script in the morning
[17:40] <cachio_> zyga, I am regenerating the image without deleting the .bashrc
[17:45] <pedronis> pstolowski|afk: mmh, we are probably talking past each other if there's a relevant link-snap there is probably also an auto-connect task
[17:45] <pedronis> which would make us ignore the former
[17:47] <pedronis> pstolowski|afk: we can talk again tomorrow morning, I might be missing something
[17:50] <jdstrand> roadmr: hi! would you mind pulling r1081 or the review tools? it isn't terribly urgent, but sooner is better than later (it isn't an emergency though)
[17:51] <jdstrand> ogra_: fyi, you probably got these, but I saw that 'Store authorization failed for linux-generic-bbb'
[17:52] <cachio_>  zyga, that was the problem
[17:52] <cachio_> zyga, I regenerated the image and umask is 0022
[17:53] <cachio_> the issue was that it was cleaning the /root/.bashrc
[17:53] <cachio_> this cleanup is pretty old
[17:53] <cachio_> it comes from linode
[17:54] <cachio_> zyga, something changed on that file on fedora 28
[18:11] <zyga> cachio_: yes, that file just sources /etc/bashrc which sets umask
[18:12] <om26er> Chipaca: Hi! got a minute ?
[18:12] <om26er> its about `http` snap, a feature request :)
[18:22] <mup> PR snapd#5227 opened: interfaces/hardware-observe: allow access to /etc/sensors* for libsensors <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5227>
[18:24] <mup> PR snapd#5228 opened: interfaces/hardware-observe: allow access to /etc/sensors* for libsensors (2.33) <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5228>
[18:40] <jdstrand> niemeyer: hey, if you have a moment to look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/4951, I implemented your changes last week
[18:40] <jdstrand> your requested*
[18:40] <mup> PR #4951: interfaces/screenshot: allow access to gnome-shell screenshot/screencast <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/4951>
[18:48] <cachio_> zyga, this change fixed all the failing tests on fedora 28 :)
[18:48] <cachio_> zyga, thanks for the support
[18:48] <zyga> Woot, Thank you :-)
[18:49] <Pharaoh_Atem> wut?
[18:49] <Pharaoh_Atem> wut the wut?
[18:49] <Pharaoh_Atem> what happened?
[18:54] <zyga> Bad rm nuked bashes
[18:54] <zyga> Bashrc
[18:55] <mup> PR snapd#5229 opened: interfaces: add juju-client-observe interface <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5229>
[18:58] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: ah
[18:58] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: what's going on here? https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5219#issuecomment-392899258
[18:58] <mup> PR #5219: packaging/opensuse: Refactor packaging to support all openSUSE targets <Created by Conan-Kudo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5219>
[19:08] <mup> PR snapcraft#2144 closed: lifecycle: automatically stage dependencies <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2144>
[19:10] <niemeyer> jdstrand: ouch.. I didn't realize the details of the interface
[19:13] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: Flock 2018 has been announced
[19:13] <Pharaoh_Atem> Dresden, Germany this time: https://flocktofedora.org/
[19:13] <zyga> Oooh
[19:14] <zyga> Count me in then
[19:14] <zyga> I will plan the trip and come
[19:14] <zyga> We need to present bases :-)
[19:15] <niemeyer> jdstrand: This is such a bad API
[19:15] <niemeyer> :(
[19:17] <sergiusens> kyrofa: commented on https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2145/files
[19:17] <mup> PR snapcraft#2145: lifecycle: automatically clean dirty steps <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2145>
[19:30] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5219/files#r191545658
[19:30] <mup> PR #5219: packaging/opensuse: Refactor packaging to support all openSUSE targets <Created by Conan-Kudo> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5219>
[19:38] <sergiusens> kyrofa: I have a minor request and a non mandatory counter-proposal that brings an implicit behavior most people seem to expect (ordered yaml)
[19:39] <sergiusens> that's for snapcraft#2146
[19:39] <mup> PR snapcraft#2146: project_loader: process parts in consistent order <Created by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2146>
[19:44] <jdstrand> niemeyer: yeah. at least it is manually connected... :\
[19:44] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: but openSUSE uses /run/media
[19:45] <zyga> let's not change that now, we can tweak it (perhaps set it conditionally) and fix the test
[19:46] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Yeah, but it feels too misleading
[19:46] <niemeyer> jdstrand: It's an awkward precedent
[19:46] <Pharaoh_Atem> zyga: so the test has always been wrong then?
[19:46] <niemeyer> jdstrand: So the interface allows saving files *anywhere*?
[19:46] <jdstrand> niemeyer: we can say "no, we won't support this. wait for portals"
[19:46] <niemeyer> I mean, anywhere the uid calling the API has access to, I suppose
[19:47] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: perhaps it was right before, are you sure opensuse used /run/media?
[19:47] <Pharaoh_Atem> Yep
[19:47] <Pharaoh_Atem> openSUSE Leap 42.x, 15.0, and Tumbleweed use /run/media
[19:47] <jdstrand> niemeyer: yes. there is some default actions but the dbus api allows specifying the outpath. we can't mediate that in apparmor because it is member data. gnome-shell would have to mediate it with the libapparmor query api to mediate it properly
[19:48] <zyga> in that case the test will need tweaking
[19:48] <jdstrand> niemeyer: and yes, anywhere the unconfined gnome-shell is allowed to write to
[19:48] <Pharaoh_Atem> the switch that changes this for debian (https://salsa.debian.org/utopia-team/udisks2/blob/master/debian/rules#L13), is not set in openSUSE: https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/Base:System/udisks2/udisks2.spec?expand=1
[19:52] <Pharaoh_Atem> they switched to /run/media in 2012
[19:54] <jdstrand> niemeyer: it is probably worth reiterating (this was mentioned in the forum) that this gnome-shell api is intended to be a temporary api unitl the pipewire (screencast) and a proper portals screenshot api was in place
[19:56] <niemeyer> jdstrand: I feel pretty bad for saying this now, but I think you had it right the first time around, and I didn't realize because I missed those details
[19:56] <jdstrand> niemeyer: that said, it has been a long time and screencasting doesn't work yet with pipewire
[19:56] <niemeyer> jdstrand: To be clear, I feel bad not because I was wrong, but because you spent time on it
[19:57] <jdstrand> niemeyer: well, the it's a weird access.  I think the question is do we want this to be autoconnected or not
[19:57] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Still, the open path writing is still something that raises eyebrows even in legacy desktop
[19:57] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Do we have an equivalent access there?
[19:57] <jdstrand> niemeyer: no. just full keyboard sniffing and injection. you know, nothing that bad :P
[19:58] <jdstrand> (accessibility)
[19:58] <niemeyer> Well, it's just about expectations.. X11 is what it is
[19:58] <jdstrand> niemeyer: and don't feel bad. it doesn't take long to shuffle stuff around
[19:58] <jdstrand> well yes
[19:59] <jdstrand> x11 is one thing, but desktop-legacy doesn't have x11
[19:59] <jdstrand> it is theoreticlly possible to plugs: [ desktop, desktop-legacy, wayland ]
[19:59] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Are both APIs exposed in the same term (screencast and screenshot)?
[19:59] <niemeyer> same terms
[19:59] <jdstrand> niemeyer: we can differentiate between screenshot and screencast. both have the same issue with outpath
[20:01] <niemeyer> Hmmm
[20:02] <jdstrand> perhaps to confuse things further, X allows screen grabs (screenshot) via the X protocol. gnome-shell is exposing these mostly for the benefit of wayland, but you can use this dbus api under X if you want
[20:02] <mup> PR snapcraft#2145 closed: lifecycle: automatically clean dirty steps <Created by kyrofa> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/2145>
[20:04] <jdstrand> but you had it right the first time. it is a terrible api. I think the idea is that they added it to gnome-shell since it is no worse than X. since mutter isn't a complete X replacement yet, they probably figured they'd fix this in the fullness of time with portals
[20:04] <jdstrand> I'm guessing, but I can easily imagine that is how the conversation went
[20:05] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Indeed
[20:06] <niemeyer> jdstrand: Okay, let's sleep on that one.. the brain isn't yielding any great ideas right now
[20:06] <jdstrand> niemeyer: sure, np. I'm kinda leaning towards the manually connected separate interface atm, but we can continue thinking about it
[20:07] <niemeyer> In fact, I'll probably do that literally.. woke up somewhat early and I need a nap to refresh a bit
[20:07] <jdstrand> hehe
[20:07] <jdstrand> have a nice rest :)
[20:07] <niemeyer> Thanks :)
[20:07] <jdstrand> it's super-annoying to wake up early and not be able to get back to sleep
[20:08] <mup> Issue # closed: snapcraft#100, snapcraft#1438, snapcraft#1440, snapcraft#1441, snapcraft#1449, snapcraft#1450, snapcraft#1451, snapcraft#1455, snapcraft#1456, snapcraft#1458, snapcraft#1459, snapcraft#1460, snapcraft#1461, snapcraft#1463, snapcraft#1465, snapcraft#1467, snapcraft#1468,
[20:08] <mup> snapcraft#1469, snapcraft#1476, snapcraft#1477, snapcraft#1502, snapcraft#1658, snapcraft#1660, snapcraft#1665, snapcraft#1677, snapcraft#1678, snapcraft#1679, snapcraft#1696, snapcraft#1701, snapcraft#1705, snapcraft#1706, snapcraft#1715, snapcraft#1751, snapcraft#1753, snapcraft#1794,
[20:08] <mup> snapcraft#1882, snapcraft#1887, snapcraft#1921, snapcraft#1932, snapcraft#2001, snapcraft#2027, snapcraft#2032, snapcraft#2048, snapcraft#2118, snapcraft#2133, snapcraft#2134, snapcraft#2136, snapcraft#2137
[20:52] <Chipaca> om26er: here now
[20:57] <sergiusens> kyrofa et.al catch you later in the night
[20:57]  * sergiusens is off to aikido practise
[20:58] <mup> PR snapd#5230 opened: interfaces/udisks2: also implement implicit classic slot <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5230>
[21:49] <om26er> Chipaca: I am making a form-data post request that uploads a file and it gives permission denied. So maybe if the http snap added `home` interface, things will get more usable.
[22:01] <mup> PR snapd#5231 opened: interfaces/joystick: force use of the device cgroup with joystick interface <Created by jdstrand> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/5231>
[22:50] <Chipaca> om26er: noted. Meanwhile you can use bash's process substitution
[22:51] <Chipaca> om26er: e.g. foo=@<( cat the-file.json )
[22:51] <om26er> Chipaca: Thanks, in this case its a png file, will see how that goes.


[00:28] <AmberJ_> Hello!
[00:29] <AmberJ_> I installed Xubuntu using image 'xubuntu-12.04.1-desktop-i386.iso' ... Now if I want to upgrade to 'xubuntu-12.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso', which command should I use?
[00:30] <SunStar> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[00:30] <AmberJ_> Thanks a lot, SunStar!
[00:32] <David-A> SunStar: did you see the i386 => amd64 ?  will dist-upgrade look for other architecture of same dist?
[00:35] <SunStar> if your running 32, it will stay 32
[00:36] <David-A> AmberJ_: ^
[00:37] <AmberJ_> err, sorry.... I meant amd64 -> amd64
[00:37] <AmberJ_> that "i386" was a copy/paste typo :(
[00:39] <AmberJ_> I wanted to know how to upgrade from 12.04.1 -> 12.04.2 (both amd64)... and yes, "apt-get dist-upgrade" is working fine.
[00:58] <MattRan> Hello?
[00:58] <MattRan> Anyone active?
[00:58] <packetfrog> hi
[00:59] <SunStar> maybe?
[00:59] <MattRan> Having some trouble installing xubuntu, anyone willing to help? :[
[00:59] <packetfrog> Can try.
[00:59] <packetfrog> sunstar my friend!
[01:00] <MattRan> Well, I'm trying to install 12.04 on my windows 7 machine
[01:00] <MattRan> saved the .iso to a CD
[01:00] <packetfrog> burn or saved?
[01:01] <MattRan> burned, sorry
[01:01] <packetfrog> just checking :>
[01:01] <MattRan> I hit restart and don't get a prompt to boot xubuntu or anything,
[01:01] <MattRan> not sure what's up
[01:02] <MattRan> have I skipped a step?
[01:02] <packetfrog> when your BIOS screen pops up
[01:02] <MattRan> (yes I have the disc in)
[01:02] <MattRan> yeah?
[01:02] <packetfrog> when you first turn the computer on   it should say something like:
[01:02] <packetfrog> Hit F2 to enter bios setup,   Hit F12 to change boot order.
[01:03] <packetfrog> if not the boot order  maybe just in the BIOS setup>Boot or Boot order
[01:03] <packetfrog> make sure your computer is even trying to boot off cd
[01:03] <MattRan> I see
[01:03] <MattRan> two seconds, I'm typing from a different machine
[01:03] <packetfrog> ll
[01:03] <packetfrog> kk
[01:03] <packetfrog> rather
[01:03] <MattRan> I'll just try that
[01:08] <MattRan> I'm in Boot Settings
[01:08] <packetfrog> Boot order
[01:09] <packetfrog> make sure cdrom is above harddrive
[01:09] <MattRan> ok, done that
[01:09] <MattRan> try again?
[01:09] <packetfrog> save settings
[01:09] <SunStar> save n restart
[01:09] <packetfrog> ^
[01:09] <MattRan> ok
[01:10] <MattRan> sec
[01:10] <MattRan> ah!
[01:10] <MattRan> there she goes :]
[01:10] <MattRan> Thanks guys
[01:11] <packetfrog> No problem.
[01:11] <packetfrog> sunstar did most of the work
[01:11]  * packetfrog is lazy
[01:11] <packetfrog> 0_o
[02:31] <erdemulutas> hi
[02:34] <packetfrog> bye
[02:34] <packetfrog> :>
[03:24] <autif> Is there an #xubuntu+1 equivalent channel?
[03:25] <Pici> nope, just use #ubuntu+1
[03:25] <holstein> !13.04 | autif just the main one for the upcoming release.. AFAIK
[03:25] <autif> thanks
[06:46] <HerbertWest> Hi there, a little question... xubuntu + empathy?
[06:48] <Unit193> What's the question?
[06:49] <HerbertWest> empathy works well with xfce?
[06:49] <Unit193> You can install empathy, if you want.  May be a little heavier on the depends.
[06:50] <HerbertWest> okok
[06:50] <HerbertWest> ty fyi
[07:50] <xubuntu565> hi, i tried xubuntu last release, I can't found the where to configure xdmcp ( in ligthdm)
[07:52] <packetfrog> http://askubuntu.com/questions/66431/how-do-i-configure-lightdm-to-work-with-xdmcp
[09:35] <ijeremie> hi everyone
[09:46] <jaysql> how do i increase the sensitivity of my keyboard letters? its really hard to press them? i feel some sort of delay between i type a key and its display
[09:47] <TheSheep> jaysql: what do you mean?
[09:49] <bazhang> !crosspost > jaysql
[09:50] <jaysql> they are different channels
[09:50] <bazhang> the helpers are largely the same
[09:50] <jaysql> but thy are different channels
[09:50] <bazhang> just dont do it, simple
[09:50] <jaysql> i wil
[09:50] <jaysql> ubuntu is not xubuntu
[09:52] <TheSheep> jaysql: so you are using ubuntu or xubuntu?
[09:52] <jaysql> both
[09:52] <jaysql> one in vm
[09:52] <jaysql> one as host
[09:52] <TheSheep> jaysql: and which one of them has the problem with the keyboard?
[09:54] <jaysql> both
[09:54] <TheSheep> jaysql: how do you connect a kphysical keyboard to your virtual machine?
[09:55] <jaysql> are you a troll?
[09:55] <bazhang> jaysql, thats enough
[09:55] <bazhang> !guidelines | jaysql
[09:56] <jaysql> !crosspost bazhang
[09:56] <TheSheep> jaysql: I'm trying to get to know which system you have problems with, so that I can advise you where you can get help with that.
[09:56] <TheSheep> what is "letter sensitivity" anyways :/
[10:17] <knome> i suppose the rate how fast new letters appear when you keep a letter pressed down
[10:17] <knome> and the time after which the second one appears
[10:46] <Guest81940> Why is Xubuntu so heavy?
[10:46] <bazhang> it's not
[10:46] <Guest81940> I've only got Firefox open and a terminal, yet it's using over 2GB RAM?
[10:47] <Guest81940> it's meant for netbooks, but if this is the case then idk how they cope on just 1-2GB
[10:47] <bazhang> open up terminal and type top
[10:47] <Guest81940> xorg, firefox, xfce4-terminal
[10:47] <Guest81940> aswell as xfce4-panel
[10:48] <Guest81940> cpuset, init.. all stuff that is included and runs with Xubuntu by default.
[10:49] <Guest81940> I don't get it :O :'(
[10:50] <Guest81940> essentially, you would need at least 2.5GB RAM to be able to run Xubuntu properly
[10:50] <Guest81940> that's similar to KDE..
[10:51] <Guest81940> bazhang: http://pastebin.com/5dzq8JP4
[10:53] <baizon> Guest81940: well, firefox is using 1.5GB memory
[10:53] <bazhang> whats the actual question Guest81940
[10:53] <Guest81940> Why is Xubuntu so heavy
[10:53] <Inoki> Guest81940: What do you mean "heavy"?
[10:53] <bazhang> thats not a support question...
[10:53] <Guest81940> Inoki: uses so much RAM and CPU
[10:54] <Myrtti> Guest81940: browsers do that.
[10:54] <bazhang> perhaps you mean why does firefox use so much ram
[10:54] <Myrtti> Guest81940: you're running a browser.
[10:54] <Inoki> Guest81940: like others said, turn off your browser ;)
[10:54] <Inoki> Guest81940: My Xubuntu takes about 440 - 500 MB RAM on idle.
[10:54] <bazhang> disable the plugins/extensions
[10:54] <baizon> Guest81940: xubuntu isnt heavy, if you open 100 tabs and run multiple falsh videos it can happen that the system is getting "heavy"
[10:55] <Guest81940> I would close it but I'm using webchat
[10:55] <Guest81940> but Xorg is still using more RAM than firefx
[10:55] <baizon> Guest81940: you can google how to optimize that
[10:55] <Inoki> Guest81940: sudo apt-get install xchat OR sudo apt-get install pidgin
[10:55] <Myrtti> Guest81940: do you know what xorg does?
[10:55] <Inoki> Guest81940: and configure it to run IRC.
[10:56] <Guest81940> I use irssi usually
[10:56] <Inoki> Guest81940: Whatever you like :)
[10:56] <Guest81940> Myrtti: yes...
[10:56] <Myrtti> just checking.
[11:02] <Inoki> Anyone here used the new Intel Driver Installer for x64 system and could tell me does it work?
[11:03] <heoyea> there was a fix released
[11:03] <Inoki> Coz I've used it previously and then it broke my entire Xubuntu installation.
[11:03] <heoyea> dont use then
[11:28] <Xenobius> hello
[11:28] <Xenobius> is anyone here?
[11:28] <bazhang> yep
[13:39] <juubis> Hi! do anyone of you know what could be riddling by xubuntu 12.10 installation? it always stops when it says "Retrieving file 31 of 81". The pc doesnt stop completely, just the installation process seems to stop...
[16:24] <icoffee> Witam ;>
[18:39] <nicofs> I need help restoring my desktop. I reverted from nvidia experimental to recommended drivers and after that i could only boot to the cli. I purged all nvidia* and reinstalled nvidia-173. now I get to the login screen but after logging in, the screen turns blank for a few seconds and reverts to login after that. what's wrong?
[18:40] <nicofs> (password is correct and I renamed xorg.conf)
[18:41] <nicofs> (guest account can log in - some user specific conf to delete?)
[18:45] <bekks> nicofs: Check your diskspace and investigate the .xsession-errors of the user failing to log in.
[18:46] <nicofs> bekks, disk space as before, some 40GB left - OS is a week old... .xsession-errors complains about some OpenGL issues...
[19:01] <nicofs> Anyone?
[19:04] <nicofs> Ok - solved. .Xauthority had the wrong owner.
[23:08] <xubuntu733> HI
[23:36] <xubuntu783> Hi, anyone, I can watch PBS, Hulu, and youtube and can watch something on BYU.org, but I can't seem to get BYU's "Studio C" to load up. The commercial comes on, but after that, the loading circle goes around and around and never loads. I've tried different Studio C episodes, but it won't load. Does anybody know why?
[23:42] <xubuntu783> Another question, sometimes my keyboard seems a bit flighty. I'll be typing away online on some site, and my curser will jump back somewhere. Is there a fix for that?
[23:44] <packetfrog> are you touching ur trackpad?
[23:44] <packetfrog> :)
[23:45] <xubuntu783> o.k.  Track pad meaning what?
[23:45] <packetfrog> are you on a laptop?
[23:46] <xubuntu783> ya
[23:46] <packetfrog> the little box in front of the keyboard you use to move the mouse cursor around...
[23:46] <packetfrog> when your typing if your wrist hits it... you move the cursor....
[23:46] <xubuntu783> oh so if I touch that, it jumps around?
[23:46] <SunStar> you can set it to disable the touchpad when typing
[23:46] <xubuntu783> how do you do that?
[23:46] <packetfrog> Menu > Settings menu > mouse/trackpad
[23:47] <packetfrog> click the trackpad tab in that window
[23:47] <packetfrog> click disable trackpad while typing.
[23:47] <packetfrog> trackpad/touchpad
[23:47] <packetfrog> same thing
[23:48] <xubuntu783> o.k. but you have to go back in and set it again to use the trackpad right?
[23:48] <SunStar> no
[23:48] <SunStar> it figures it out
[23:48] <packetfrog> it just disables it while your actively typing
[23:48] <packetfrog> its on right now
[23:48] <packetfrog> and I can move my lil mousie!
[23:50] <xubuntu783> so I can use my trackpad (mouse thingy) still. sooo I fix this trackpad and I can still use the mouse to navigate?
[23:50] <SunStar> yeah it just has a delay untill its sure you wanted to do that
[23:51] <xubuntu783> so, I can permantly turn the trackpad off and everything still works, the controlled typing and the mouse?
[23:51] <SunStar> "disable touchpad when typing" is the option
[23:51] <SunStar> it is possible to totally disable which you dont want
[23:51] <packetfrog> there is a program to turn the touchpad off when you have a mouse plugged in
[23:52] <xubuntu783> so only when you want to type do you want the touc pad off, not permantly unless you have another mouse.
[23:53] <SunStar> .....one "disable touchpad when typing" is enabled, the mouse gets disabled when you are using the keyboard. when you go to use the mouse again, there will be a delay untill it is sure you intend to use the mouse
[23:55] <xubuntu783> o.k. so, I can leave the touch pad off and then when I want to use the mouse there will be a delay and the mouse works again. So, what do you do? Do you leave the  touch pad off because you have a lot of typing and just wait for the mouse?
[23:56] <packetfrog> Your thinking to critically
[23:56] <SunStar> you dont do anything. the OS decides when the mouse should and should not be on
[23:56] <packetfrog> Enable the option we told you about.
[23:56] <packetfrog> You start typing and when you goto use touchpad again there is  MILLASECOND delay in it moving   but while ur typing it wont move around on you when you accidentally touch the touchpad
[23:57] <packetfrog> simple. easy. try it. move on :>
[23:59] <SunStar> my system delays for too long so i just live with the mouse "spin out"


[00:12] <XJakez> hello
[00:12] <daftykins> hi
[02:28] <m0nkey_> Hey Myrtti
[02:28] <Myrtti> mmmh
[02:29] <m0nkey_> How's it going?
[02:35] <Myrtti> tired and sleepy and bored :-/ the usual.
[02:43] <m0nkey_> Ah, yes. Been there :)
[05:44] <knightwise> morning
[05:47] <mapps> morning
[05:48] <mapps> ;]
[05:59] <knightwise> hey mapps
[05:59] <knightwise> howzyou
[06:00] <mapps> good :) you? watching the last ep of bloodline
[06:07] <knightwise> Vampirezz ?
[06:14] <mapps> haha nah not vampires
[06:14] <mapps> netflix series tis good
[06:14] <mapps> check it out
[06:14] <knightwise> You watched "stranger things" yet ?
[06:18] <mapps> nah thats next on my list
[06:18] <mapps> you seen?
[06:31] <knightwise> yupz
[06:31] <knightwise> iz VERY good
[06:35] <mapps> 1 season only?
[06:35] <mapps> check bloodline out man
[06:53] <knightwise> gonna give it a peek
[06:53] <knightwise> currently watching Manhattan
[06:53] <knightwise> (season 2)
[07:01] <mapps> never even heard of that
[07:30] <knightwise> about the team that built the atom bomb
[08:03] <davmor2> Morning all you cyberhippies
[08:05] <knightwise> hey davmor2
[08:09] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:42] <awilkins> Morning
[08:43] <awilkins> Today's annoyance ; running 16.04.1 on a Dell 5510 - the GUI libraries are drawing artefacts that look like stuck pixels
[08:44] <awilkins> There's one in the menu bar when it draws the menu (other workspaces are clean until you also draw a menu on those)
[08:44] <awilkins> Firefox also has one in the tab near the close button (but only when you maximise the window)
[08:46] <awilkins> Tried nouveau and nv, both do it, so I suspect it's to do with the libraries
[08:48] <davmor2> awilkins: and that right there is why the Conservatives are trying to close the Libraries ;)
[09:21] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday, and happy Lazy Lion Day! 😃  ♌
[10:05] <davmor2> JamesTait: can only be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WScEJKNMdgI
[10:08] <JamesTait> 80s cheese at its best!
[10:09] <davmor2> JamesTait: indeedly doodly
[10:14] <zmoylan-pi> dammit we have a nedfestation...
[11:25] <daftykins> yay
[13:15] <diddledan> m00
[13:15] <daftykins> o hai
[13:37] <BigRedS_> Morning All!
[13:37] <popey> hello BigRedS_
[13:37] <BigRedS_> Ooh, I've acquired an underscore, maybe it has been too long...
[13:38] <daftykins> you've grown a tail!
[13:38] <christel> nice tail :)
[13:38] <popey> is it a tail or a no-tail?
[13:39] <diddledan> tail -f
[13:40] <BigRedS_> So, yeah, what've I missed? :)
[13:41] <BigRedS_> apart from apparently losing an irc client instance somewhere
[13:55] <BigRedS> aha! Found it!
[13:56] <diddledan> lol, find the irc client
[13:56] <diddledan> how many boxes do you have that you can't remember where your irc is? :-p
[13:56] <daftykins> :>
[13:56] <knightwise> diddledan: I know that story
[13:57] <daftykins> that reminds me of that bash.org quote
[13:57] <daftykins> "i have a box, responds to ping, but i can't find it"
[13:57] <knightwise> turns out i forgot all about a rasp py i tucked behind the tv
[13:57] <knightwise> that moment you need to DDos your own gear
[13:57] <diddledan> lmao
[13:57] <daftykins> er what
[13:57] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, we set up wifi monitoring here, to discover rogue wifi hotspots that people might set up
[13:57] <daftykins> unplugging has an amazingly high effective rate
[13:57] <BigRedS> and then weren't really sure what we could do once we'd identified one. How do you tell where it is?
[13:58] <daftykins> so your APs are reporting finding them?
[13:58] <BigRedS> well it hasn't yet in anger
[13:58] <diddledan> you could set-up one of those fake access points that hackers use
[14:00] <daftykins> diddledan: i know you're in a darkened room with shades on at your PC
[14:00] <diddledan> daftykins: my curtains are closed!
[14:00] <daftykins> s/shades/sunglasses
[14:00] <diddledan> so yes, it's a darkened room :-p
[14:00] <diddledan> curtains closed, lights off
[14:01] <daftykins> sunglasses on
[14:17] <knightwise> Fires up hackertyper !
[14:17] <daftykins> lul
[14:42]  * diddledan grabs brmbrmcar and vrooms it like a dinkytoy
[14:42] <diddledan> vroom vroom
[14:42] <diddledan> do they still make dinkytoys? or matchbox?
[14:47] <daftykins> ugh post office etc refuse to ship phone batteries now, amazed how i got this thing in the first place, but now couriers want £11 to send it
[14:47] <diddledan> :-(
[14:47] <diddledan> sucky nuts
[14:49] <daftykins> a NZ guy had the same issues recently as he was trying to get some ecig batteries shipped over from China or something like that, nobody will do it
[14:49] <daftykins> somehow he's got some stuck in England now XD
[14:49] <daftykins> not quite sure on that route...
[14:55] <foobarry> mostly chinese hotwheels now
[15:01] <popey> yeah, we couldn't ship a tablet to India recently, nobody would take it
[15:01] <daftykins> seems DPD were ok with taking it up to England by ship, but for £11
[15:03] <diddledan> how do the phone companies do it I wonder?
[15:04] <daftykins> this one seems to have used Hermes, which don't really have a rep over here, just a person in a van
[15:50] <diddledan> ooh, teaser trailer for resident evil the final chapter has been released
[15:51] <diddledan> https://youtu.be/jbtmW3ydOkU?t=7
[16:08] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[17:09] <BigRedS> Goood Morning!
[17:09] <brmbrmcar> Morning? Huh?
[17:10] <zmoylan-pi> it's morning somewhere...
[17:11] <brmbrmcar> I guess...
[17:11] <BigRedS> in half of the places!
[17:12] <zmoylan-pi> and some places have enough people doing night shifts that fast food places do a 24hour breakfast service
[19:45] <diddledan> morning
[19:45] <MartijnVdS> howdy
[19:46] <diddledan> :-o davmor2_Hols has gone away?! what will we do without a song-for-the-day?!
[19:46] <MartijnVdS> We'll have to find one ourselves
[19:48] <popey> I am happy. Ressurected my Palm T|X, and jpilot works just fine at syncing
[20:23]  * zmoylan-pi breaks out the kazoos and vocal guides for klingon battle chants... :-)
[20:47] <MooDoo> howdy all
[20:49] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[20:49] <MooDoo> :)
[21:02] <daftykins> greetings
[21:02] <zmoylan-pi> carbon based lifeforms...
[21:03] <daftykins> i come with peas
[21:03] <zmoylan-pi> mushy?
[21:03] <daftykins> not my cup of coffee, them
[21:03] <zmoylan-pi> ditto, i much prefer marrowfat
[21:08] <daftykins> never met the guy!
[21:08] <daftykins> :D
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> he nearly brought peas to the mid east... :-P
[21:14] <daftykins> i'm green with envy
[21:15] <zmoylan-pi> and me just after posting kermits it's not easy been green in another channel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpiIWMWWVco
[21:16] <daftykins> \o/
[21:23] <daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DykDOkyE5ME
[21:24] <daftykins> someones suction cup climbing Trump Tower!
[21:24] <zmoylan-pi> spiderman less the bitten by radioactive spider...
[21:42] <daftykins> hrmm got an old server setup to mess with, but i can't think of much to do :)
[21:46] <zmoylan-pi> install novell \o/ :-)
[21:46] <daftykins> ;)
[21:46] <daftykins> right now it's a desktop motherboard with 4GB RAM, a core 2 duo and a 40GB value SSD with ubuntu server 14.04 on it
[21:47] <zmoylan-pi> novell would snot along on that
[21:47] <daftykins> also got one of my fave 3ware 3Gb/sec SATA RAID controllers in there, 8 port i think
[21:48] <daftykins> this guy is making such slow progress...
[21:52] <diddledan> while I was faffing about with my second box the other night I managed to cut a finger. no pc surgery is complete unless you spill a ton of blood
[21:53] <diddledan> plus, the blood appeases the gods
[21:53] <zmoylan-pi> no blood sacrifice, the job is unfinished
[21:55] <daftykins> i always felt that way with new builds :D
[21:55] <diddledan> I didn't even feel it, but my finger was covered in blood when I pulled it out \o/
[21:55] <zmoylan-pi> the trick is to make it so some other staff member makes the blood sacrifice...
[21:58] <daftykins> but it's how i leave my mark on the world!
[21:59] <zmoylan-pi> i've been very careful since my first job in a shop with a deli counter and meat slicer... been told that this machine will cut you at some point. everyone cuts themselves on it...
[22:00] <daftykins> :D
[22:00] <zmoylan-pi> high staff turnover and in the 8 months i was there i saw about 20 people cut themselves on it... that bugger didn't mess around
[22:01] <zmoylan-pi> came close but i was the first never to draw blood on it...
[22:29] <diddledan> those things are lethal
[22:30] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, i kinda got to know what the scream of a person cutting the tip of their finger off versus someone cutting down to the bone was
[22:30] <daftykins> :S
[22:30] <daftykins> wonder if metal tipped gloves exist :)
[22:31] <zmoylan-pi> pretty much the same reaction though, run in with kitchen towel roll or toilet roll to staunch the blood
[22:32] <daftykins> so how'd you stay away from that duty? :)
[22:32] <zmoylan-pi> then trying to nonchantly discretely clean the machine and not allow any meat cut till that was done while people impatiently wanted 2 slices of corn beef while someone was standing there with a hand wrapped in bandages waiting for lift to hospital
[22:34] <zmoylan-pi> i was stock room person as i rotated stock correctly unlike most... this had it's own icky duty... been handed a shovel and been asked to take out the mouse the owner stamped to death...
[22:40] <daftykins> :(
[22:40] <daftykins> stock rotation on shelves is a pig
[22:40] <daftykins> i did that once i became legal employment age!
[22:40] <zmoylan-pi> but it has to be done
[22:41] <zmoylan-pi> especially for things like milk, bread
[22:41] <daftykins> yep
[22:41] <daftykins> i've seen some lately where it seems they don't bother
[22:41] <daftykins> milk was the most annoying i think :)
[22:42] <zmoylan-pi> what annoyed me most about milk was when i was in there's never be more than 2-3 dates on the milk in the fridge but if i took a day or two off it was chaotic when i got back and it would take 2-3 days to get it all back in line
[22:43] <daftykins> oof! no standards in folk - i had much the same with keeping racks tidy in a server room
[22:44] <zmoylan-pi> now i make sure everyone sees my hammer collection and let their imagination work out what i'll do to them if they muck up my neat and tidy system...
[22:44] <diddledan> darpa's cyber grand challenge video: https://youtu.be/n0kn4mDXY6I
[22:44] <diddledan> (2.5 hours)
[22:45] <diddledan> it's a fully-automated capture-the-flag
[23:08] <daftykins> too long :<
[23:39] <daftykins> diddledan: poor stack canaries :(
[23:46] <flying_sausages> Hello people, anyone knows how to upgrade 10.04 to 16.04?
[23:46] <daftykins> clean install
[23:46] <daftykins> no other approach would be sane
[23:47] <flying_sausages> daftykins is there any way I could do that without the use of CDs or USBs? Sadly I have none available to me
[23:48] <daftykins> why?
[23:48] <daftykins> what are the circumstances surrounding this odd scenario?
[23:48] <flying_sausages> daftykins Cannot for the love of god find CD/DVDs and for some reason the PC just won't boot off of any USB stick
[23:48] <flying_sausages> it's from like 2006
[23:49] <daftykins> is this thing a production server
[23:49] <daftykins> ?
[23:49] <flying_sausages> nope, just an old home desktop that doesn't have good win10 drivers
[23:50] <flying_sausages> *for graphics
[23:50] <daftykins> why's it running 10.04 though? that's ancient
[23:50] <flying_sausages> so it's throwing 4:3 onto a 16:9
[23:50] <flying_sausages> Yeah, that was the last time I used a CD to burn an iso :L
[23:50] <daftykins> !ab
[23:50] <daftykins> blech
[23:50] <flying_sausages> I know, sad times...
[23:51] <ali1234> i know how to do it
[23:51] <ali1234> you have to point the updater at oldrelease
[23:51] <daftykins> no, your first question was the wrong question, you asked how to do what you're thinking - not the actual task
[23:51] <ali1234> then upgrade to 12.04
[23:51] <ali1234> then after you have done that you can upgrade to 16.04
[23:51] <flying_sausages> and because do-release-upgrade runs in a weird screen it won't read me the read the whole log so I can't even try fix it
[23:52] <flying_sausages> ali1234 did that, got 550 packages, but after that can't do-rel
[23:52] <daftykins> if you installed without a separate /boot, you can download a 16.04.1 ISO and put it in /boot and boot it directly from GRUB
[23:52] <flying_sausages> daftykins sorry, don't get what you're saying..?
[23:52] <flying_sausages> Hmmmmmmmm that's a good idea
[23:52] <ali1234> are you running do-release-upgrade on ssh?
[23:53] <flying_sausages> ali1234 nope local
[23:53] <daftykins> or perhaps a PLOP ISO can be booted from GRUB and then you could chainload your flash drive of 16.04
[23:53] <daftykins> both methods avoid sitting waiting for entire upgrades through the releases
[23:54] <flying_sausages> daftykins do you think you could point me to a how-to on how to boot from an iso through grub?
[23:54] <daftykins> i'd be starting at google, so i might as well remove the middle man and let you do it direct
[23:54] <flying_sausages> !ddg boot iso from grub
[23:55] <daftykins> https://www.plop.at/en/bootmanager/download.html
[23:55] <daftykins> come to think of it, perhaps GRUB can be directly instructed how to pass over to the USB, too
[23:55] <diddledan> I believe it can do both
[23:56] <flying_sausages> daftykins ah sweet, so I can skip this dumb-ass bios!
[23:56] <diddledan> if you have a floppy drive and a separate PC you could even do an etherboot
[23:56] <daftykins> i've a feeling you've just misconfigured it, but yeah probably
[23:56] <daftykins> in my experience those always require more troubleshooting to even get going
[23:57] <daftykins> flying_sausages: what's this graphics card btw?
[23:57] <daftykins> also why'd you come here instead of #ubuntu ?
[23:57] <diddledan> I'm guessing an AGP unit
[23:57] <flying_sausages> daftykins let me check
[23:57] <flying_sausages> Well, rooms with 2000 users have a bit of a different dynamic than rooms with 93 :p
[23:57] <flying_sausages> Thanks so much for the help!
[23:58] <daftykins> yes but one is support and one isn't
[23:58] <daftykins> :P
[23:58] <flying_sausages> daftykins is the main ubuntu the support one?
[23:58] <flying_sausages> didn't know, first time I come to freenode for help
[23:59] <daftykins> topics tell all