[00:16] <tsimonq2> YES! the libfm fix made it in!
[00:16] <wxl> yay
[00:16]  * tsimonq2 smoke tests
[00:19] <tsimonq2> wxl: think I should poke /win 20
[00:19] <tsimonq2> whopps
[00:19] <tsimonq2> ahhhhhhhh
[00:19] <tsimonq2> wxl: think I should poke slangasek about getting an experimental LXQt image?
[00:20] <wxl> tsimonq2: not until we have some sense as to what the additional applications would be like
[00:20] <tsimonq2> alright wxl
[00:20] <wxl> that's what i think, at least
[00:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: well we already have a metapackage, no?
[00:21] <tsimonq2> wxl: I mean, would it hurt? :)
[00:22] <wxl> potentially
[00:22] <tsimonq2> how so?
[00:22] <wxl> i'm not sure canonical has the resources to do something "just because"
[00:23] <wxl> and i'm not sure it would be really useful to the end user since it would be incomplete
[00:23] <tsimonq2> oh I see
[00:23] <wxl> if they wanted something incomplete, they could also just build their own system with the metapackage
[00:23] <tsimonq2> yeah
[00:24] <wxl> i love the idea but the fact of the matter is we just need to wait
[00:24] <tsimonq2> I see
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, o/
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> One of the Ubuntu MATE servers (the one running my ZNC bouncer) failed overnight.
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> I've lost some IRC history.
[06:29] <flexiondotorg> So, if you messaged me. I missed it.
[06:46] <tsimonq2> I didn't
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, o/
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> Looks like Lubuntu testing is going well.
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> I'm doing some Ubuntu MATE testing now.
[07:03] <flexiondotorg> Looks good enough to me :-)
[07:12] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: Lubuntu is doing one more respin
[07:12] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, Because?
[07:13] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: light-locker-settings is completely broken, a fix is landing very soon
[07:13] <flexiondotorg> Thanks. Not a thing that I need to worry about :-)
[08:51] <flexiondotorg> tsimonq2, Any chance someone in Lubuntu can do a quick install of Ubuntu MATE 16.04.1 on PowerPC?
[08:51] <tsimonq2> flexiondotorg: I wish I could help you
[08:52] <tsimonq2> unfortunately I don't know who has a PowerPC machine
[08:52] <flexiondotorg> OK
[18:46] <tsimonq2> wxl: we had one last respin this morning
[18:46] <tsimonq2> wxl: but the testing is almost done
[18:49] <redwolf> o/ sudodus
[18:49] <sudodus> o/
[18:49] <tsimonq2> sudodus! :)
[18:49] <tsimonq2> sudodus: thanks for helping test 16.04.1 a lot, even after today's respin. I appreciate it. :)
[18:50] <sudodus> You are welcome :-)
[18:51] <tsimonq2> sudodus: this morning's respin was due to a fix that made light-locker-settings go from completely unusable to working, all fine now
[18:51] <sudodus> I see.
[18:52] <redwolf> tsimonq2, what happens with mini.iso?
[18:53] <sudodus> But there are still problems with Intel graphics. The cursor is lost after locking. Fix: ctrl+alt+F1, ctrl+alt+F7
[18:53] <tsimonq2> sudodus: the respin before that (which I also requested) has the libfm fix
[18:53] <tsimonq2> yes :(
[18:53] <tsimonq2> redwolf: related to sudodus' thread?
[18:54] <sudodus> I tested the xenial 32-bit mini.iso today, and it works, both in my Toshiba and in VirtualBox.
[18:54] <redwolf> no, mailing lists
[18:54] <redwolf> it seems failing in vbox
[18:54] <redwolf> but I tested it on Boxes and it works
[18:54] <redwolf> (kvm)
[18:54] <sudodus> There was a report about that, but it works for me.
[18:55] <redwolf> yes, same here
[18:55] <redwolf> odd
[18:55] <redwolf> I  hope the one who reported did a checksum test
[18:55] <redwolf> .__.
[18:55] <tsimonq2> XD
[18:55] <sudodus> There is a dialogue at the Ubuntu Forums, and the guy seems to have problems with a scsi package now.
[18:56] <tsimonq2> oh okay
[18:56] <redwolf> ah
[18:56] <wxl> who's chairing this thing?
[18:56] <tsimonq2> sudodus: keep us posted if it concerns Lubuntu please :)
[18:56] <redwolf> tsimonq2, I think
[18:56] <tsimonq2> I thought wxl would, but if he doesn't want to, I can
[18:57] <redwolf> -__-
[18:57] <tsimonq2> wxl: your choice
[18:57] <redwolf> is the boss finally coming?
[18:57] <wxl> i'lts	go for it
[18:57] <wxl> ugh
[18:57] <sudodus> Yes,
[18:57] <wxl> go for it i mean
[18:57] <redwolf> I see squares again ._.
[18:57] <tsimonq2> I really want gilir to come to the meetings :)
[18:57] <redwolf> well, we have something important to say :|
[18:57]  * tsimonq2 finished the sentence so redwolf didn't ;)
[18:58] <tsimonq2> wxl: \o/
[18:58] <tsimonq2> oh shoot i need to brush up on my meetingology skills /o\
[18:58] <tsimonq2> *I
[19:00] <tsimonq2> wxl: should we wait for Julien or just go for it?
[19:00] <wxl> go for it
[19:00] <redwolf> yer!
[19:00] <tsimonq2> #startmeeting Lubuntu Team Meeting for July 20, 2016
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 19:00:36 2016 UTC.  The chair is tsimonq2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:00] <sudodus> While we are waiting, I'd like to say that 16.04.1 is really much improved compared the 16.04. Now it is a nice LTS release :-)
[19:01] <tsimonq2> could you show your attendance by saying o/ please ?
[19:01] <tsimonq2> o/
[19:01] <redwolf> o/
[19:01] <wxl> o/
[19:01] <sudodus> o/
[19:01] <tsimonq2> great, we are just waiting on Julien
[19:01] <tsimonq2> Here is our planned meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[19:02] <tsimonq2> #topic https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[19:02] <tsimonq2> whoops
[19:02] <tsimonq2> #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work
[19:02] <tsimonq2> There
[19:02] <tsimonq2> so coming up, we have 16.04.1 that is supposed to be release tomorrow
[19:03] <tsimonq2> as sudodus said, we have a lot of nice fixes that really makes it a good release
[19:03] <tsimonq2> we had a rebuild yesterday due to a libfm fix
[19:04] <tsimonq2> and a rebuild today due to a light-locker-settings fix
[19:04] <tsimonq2> buyt we are actually almost covered in testing
[19:04] <tsimonq2> *but
[19:04] <tsimonq2> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/363/builds
[19:04] <tsimonq2> I'm working on the rest of the amd64 alternate test cases
[19:05] <tsimonq2> we're good to go on Desktop
[19:05] <tsimonq2> we just need to tackle Alternate i386
[19:05] <sudodus> I hope you will be able to do some double-checking tests of Lubuntu 16.04.1 after this meeting :-)
[19:05] <tsimonq2> sudodus: did you plan on doing that today or should I?
[19:05] <tsimonq2> sudodus: and in what way should I double-check? :)
[19:06] <sudodus> Do the same testcase but with your hardware :-)
[19:06] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I usually do them in a VM just to smoke test :)
[19:06] <wxl> yes, hardware testing is always welcome, especially when it comes to LTS releases
[19:06] <tsimonq2> I agree with wxl
[19:07] <gilir> hi there, sorry for beeing late :-/
[19:07] <tsimonq2> hello gilir! :)
[19:07] <sudodus> hi gilir
[19:07] <redwolf> o/ gilir
[19:07] <wxl> no problem. good to see you gilir :)
[19:07] <tsimonq2> gilir: we were currently talking about 16.04.1 beingreleased tomorrow
[19:07] <tsimonq2> gilir: you aren't that late :)
[19:07] <tsimonq2> anyways
[19:08] <tsimonq2> so although I can't test with my own hardware as I don't have much to test with, I'm glad sudodus is testing it as well
[19:09] <tsimonq2> the release notes are almost done, soon after the meeting they will be on the usual /Draft wiki page
[19:09] <sudodus> Maybe someone else can test too, and on hardware
[19:09] <tsimonq2> and like I said, I'm working to smoke test
[19:09] <wxl> might want to call out for hardware testing
[19:09] <tsimonq2> like on the mailing list?
[19:09] <wxl> yeah
[19:09] <wxl> can't hurt
[19:10] <tsimonq2> I see, alright
[19:10] <tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1
[19:10] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2: send an email to the lubuntu-devel list asking for hardware testing of 16.04.1
[19:10] <tsimonq2> there
[19:11] <tsimonq2> so let's talk about Yakkety Alpha 2
[19:11] <tsimonq2> that's next week Thursday
[19:11] <tsimonq2> and while there's not much that's exciting (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) we should be aware of it :)
[19:12] <tsimonq2> sudodus: will you be able to help test Alpha 2 as well next week? :)
[19:12] <tsimonq2> I will
[19:12] <sudodus> what problems should we look for with yakkety?
[19:12] <redwolf> abiword
[19:12] <tsimonq2> yes
[19:13] <tsimonq2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/Alpha1/Lubuntu
[19:13] <tsimonq2> that has the known problems ^
[19:13] <tsimonq2> ooh, the btrfs/xfs bug?
[19:13] <sudodus> OK
[19:13] <redwolf> yup
[19:13] <tsimonq2> gilir: did you ever get a chance to fix bug 1591851 ?
[19:13] <tsimonq2> (it seems to be a metapackage thing)
[19:14] <gilir> you should be fixed, last time I checked the btrfs stuff was on the ISO
[19:14] <gilir> you / it
[19:14] <tsimonq2> alright, thanks gilir :)
[19:14] <tsimonq2> but otherwise I see nothing major
[19:14] <tsimonq2> 14.04.5!
[19:15] <tsimonq2> the planned release date for that is August 4th
[19:15] <sudodus> It would be nice if we can SRU usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 from Xenial to Trusty
[19:15] <wxl> i am in support of that idea
[19:15] <tsimonq2> sudodus: is there a bug filed? I can work to get that good to go
[19:16] <sudodus> Yes
[19:16] <tsimonq2> or gilir if he prefers :)
[19:16] <tsimonq2> either way, +1 with me as well
[19:16] <sudodus> but maybe some particular person should be asked to do it (personal contact)
[19:16] <wxl> gilir never refuses an opportunity to put more work on his plate ;)
[19:17] <gilir> I pass on this one :-)
[19:17] <wxl> heheheh
[19:17] <tsimonq2> #topic tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:17] <tsimonq2> oh jeez
[19:17] <tsimonq2> gahh meetingbot
[19:17] <tsimonq2> #topic Yakkety Alpha 2/16.04.1/14.04.5 and SRU work
[19:18] <tsimonq2> #agenda tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> noo
[19:18] <tsimonq2> #action tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> there :P
[19:18] <meetingology> ACTION: tsimonq2: get usb-creator-gtk 0.3.2 into Trusty
[19:18] <tsimonq2> also, gilir had some SRUs he submitted to the mailing list
[19:19] <tsimonq2> I'll be sure to include fixes in the release notes as well :)
[19:19] <wxl> oh and we need ppc testing bad.
[19:19] <tsimonq2> +1
[19:19] <wxl> can't release the untested.
[19:19] <sudodus> +1
[19:19] <tsimonq2> besides that, any other items for this before we move on?
[19:19] <tsimonq2> but yes, I don't have a PPC machine to test
[19:19] <wxl> as much as it pains me to say this, maybe we should start considering dropping ppc.
[19:20] <tsimonq2> wxl: could you send an email to the mailing list to get widespread feedback if you think that it's the best option?
[19:21] <wxl> oh yeah. i mean it's a case where the users need to be testers or it just can't happen
[19:21] <tsimonq2> I garee
[19:21] <tsimonq2> *agree
[19:21] <wxl> it's not even a choice
[19:21] <wxl> if they aren't tested, canonical won't release them
[19:21] <sudodus> Yes, I think 16.04 LTS can be the last version for PPC. It is getting really hard to get it tested, so probably very few people use it nowadays
[19:22] <tsimonq2> yeah
[19:22] <wxl> but i don't just want to make the decision
[19:22] <tsimonq2> so could somebody send something to the mailing list then?
[19:22] <wxl> i'd rather open it up to the community and let them decide
[19:22] <tsimonq2> yeah I agree
[19:22] <redwolf> +1
[19:22] <wxl> i'll do it
[19:22] <sudodus> good idea
[19:23] <tsimonq2> #action wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support
[19:23] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl: send an email to lubuntu-* about dropping ppc support
[19:23] <tsimonq2> so anything else before we move on?
[19:24] <tsimonq2> I'd just like to say thanks to sudodus for all of the testing he's been doing :)
[19:24] <tsimonq2> let's move on! :)
[19:24] <wxl> +1
[19:24] <tsimonq2> #topic Bug Day
[19:24] <tsimonq2> Lubuntu is running a Bug Day on the 26th
[19:25] <wxl> yay bug day
[19:25] <tsimonq2> we are basically going to get help from the community to go through our bugs
[19:25] <tsimonq2> I hope we get AbiWord bugs triaged, last I checked we have hundreds of them! :)
[19:25] <wxl> ew abiword
[19:26] <tsimonq2> I agree with wxl :P
[19:26] <redwolf> .__.
[19:26] <wxl> are we going to focus on a particular segment or prioritize?
[19:26] <wxl> like perhaps it might be good to focus on lx components first?
[19:26] <sudodus> hundreds of bugs on Abiword???
[19:26] <redwolf> it's buggy, yes
[19:26] <wxl> and then move on to apps that we tend to be the primary users of like, um, abiword
[19:26] <tsimonq2> well I was going to ask, is there anything that you guys want triages?
[19:26] <redwolf> but we have no replacement
[19:27] <tsimonq2> *triages
[19:27] <tsimonq2> **triaged
[19:27] <tsimonq2> ugh
[19:27] <wxl> sure we do, redwolf, it's called vim. :)
[19:27]  * wxl ducks
[19:27] <redwolf> :|
[19:27] <tsimonq2> but yes, I agree with wxl
[19:27] <tsimonq2> ohhhhhhhh XD
[19:27]  * tsimonq2 gives wxl a high-five
[19:27] <tsimonq2> anyways
[19:27] <redwolf> gilir, about this...
[19:27] <gilir> if you want to work on abiword, you probably want to talk to jbicha, he was quite active on it recently
[19:28] <redwolf> I told tsimonq2 we were playing with the solution for the last bug
[19:28] <sudodus> I think many Lubuntu users install LibreOffice
[19:28] <tsimonq2> alright gilir, I'll keep him in the loop :)
[19:28] <gilir> redwolf, right, but I don't think it's strickly a bug theme
[19:29] <tsimonq2> another thing besides specific bugs, we are having an Ubuntu On Air session on the 25th from 1900 to 2000 UTC
[19:29] <tsimonq2> http://ubuntuonair.com/ will have all the details
[19:29] <gilir> our theme just "activate" it, see upstream bug here : http://bugzilla.abisource.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13791
[19:29] <redwolf> not really, right
[19:29] <sudodus> Is it an option to change to Adwaita - or does it look too bad?
[19:29] <redwolf> but GTK is being buggy lately. they're not XDG compliant
[19:29] <redwolf> they included CSD this month, but that's all
[19:30] <redwolf> all themes are going in the opposite direction
[19:30] <gilir> switching to adwaita make a big visual difference between gtk2 and gtk3 apps :-/
[19:30] <redwolf> I'm doing tests with Adwaita, that would free us from Light Themes
[19:30] <redwolf> indeed
[19:30] <redwolf> here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVgYvcyh.png
[19:30] <redwolf> and here: http://pasteboard.co/dQVfzYX7o.png
[19:30] <redwolf> specially the file manager
[19:31] <redwolf> but I wouldn't consider it a problem, yet
[19:31] <tsimonq2> redwolf: so I guess my question is, are there fixes coming or are we switching the theme?
[19:31] <redwolf> anyway, gilir, aren't we more "gnomized" now?
[19:32] <redwolf> tsimonq2, this will fix the flickering, but it must be fixed on abiword specifically
[19:32] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:32] <tsimonq2> but back on the topic of bug day
[19:32] <redwolf> anyway, we're "vulnerable" to more GTK problems in the future, unless Canonical gets the right direction
[19:32] <redwolf> so this is being held until more tests are done
[19:32] <tsimonq2> any packages people want addressed for bug day?
[19:32] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:33] <sudodus> those screenshots look good enough :-)
[19:33] <redwolf> sudodus, yes, but it doesn't look "lubuntu" :)
[19:33] <wxl> redwolf: "right direction" means?
[19:34] <redwolf> wxl, XDG compliant, with full Qt support. Light Themes are proved visually incompatible in some apps because they are always late upgrading the widgets
[19:34] <wxl> ahhhh
[19:34] <wxl> :(
[19:34] <redwolf> and usually, sudden upgrades appear close to release dates, with ugly outcomes
[19:34] <tsimonq2> redwolf: are you in talks with Canonical's design team about this?
[19:34] <wxl> are there bugs created for that?
[19:34] <redwolf> but I still trust Design Team guys
[19:35] <redwolf> I did, long time ago, about the "sync" between flavours
[19:35] <redwolf> but I was told we're a community and they can't, obviously, think about the repercussion on every theme change
[19:35] <redwolf> anyway, if Ubuntu looks good, Lubuntu will too
[19:36] <tsimonq2> great :)
[19:36] <redwolf> sorry guys, gotta quit
[19:36] <tsimonq2> sorry to cut y'all short, this discussion should be continued
[19:36] <tsimonq2> o/ redwolf
[19:36] <redwolf> thanks everybody
[19:36] <redwolf> o/
[19:37] <sudodus> o/ rewolf
[19:37] <tsimonq2> so let's hand the floor to wxl
[19:37] <tsimonq2> #topic QA
[19:37] <tsimonq2> anything new? :)
[19:37] <wxl> well, i think we pretty much covered it :)
[19:37] <wxl> just make sure to show up at Bug Day!
[19:37] <wxl> and test a lot.
[19:37] <wxl> ok, love you bye. :)
[19:37] <tsimonq2> I agree
[19:37] <tsimonq2> XD
[19:37] <tsimonq2> #topic Donation Area
[19:37] <tsimonq2> wxl still has the floor!
[19:38] <wxl> pass. haven't done a thing with it.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> :P
[19:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: what's the status going forward?
[19:38] <wxl> ultimately we need to start from scratch again.
[19:38] <tsimonq2> wxl: would you be able to get that started again?
[19:39] <tsimonq2> or do you not want to?
[19:39] <wxl> i noticed (for the first time) there's an lxde foundation, so i thought maybe i might pick mario's brain about that.
[19:39] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[19:39] <tsimonq2> #topic Wiki
[19:39] <tsimonq2> last time you have the floor wxl :P
[19:40] <wxl> oh do i have the floor for the wiki??
[19:40] <tsimonq2> yep
[19:40] <wxl> i think that might have been an old agenda item, unless someonme has a specific question
[19:40] <tsimonq2> wxl: that's the status of our documentation?
[19:40] <tsimonq2> *what's
[19:41] <wxl> well, we need more help, really. ultimately, we need someone to lead the team.
[19:41] <wxl> that's kind of something we've neeeded for a looooooooooooooong time
[19:41] <tsimonq2> wxl: has a call been put out at all? can this be brought up on the mailing list and someone picked?
[19:41] <wxl> without any sort of vision for what we're doing, it's hard to imagine anything getting done except little additions/changes here and there
[19:41] <tsimonq2> I see
[19:42] <wxl> it was something we put a call out about a while back
[19:42] <wxl> interest was lukewarm to say the least
[19:42] <tsimonq2> so what do you suggest going forward then?
[19:42] <sudodus> I don't understand why we have two sets of wiki pages, at the Ubuntu wiki pages and the Ubuntu help pages.
[19:42] <wxl> keep trying. that's about all we can do. maybe also reach out the documentation team
[19:43] <wxl> sudodus: i kind of don't either, to be frank
[19:43] <tsimonq2> ooh, good idea, maybe some collaboration there, wxl?
[19:43] <wxl> help.u.c is SUPPOSED to be for official support
[19:43] <wxl> e.g. the Testing page wouldn't belong there
[19:43] <wxl> but manual pages should be there
[19:43] <wxl> but we have manual pages all over the place, so i don't know
[19:43] <wxl> again, lack of vision
[19:44] <tsimonq2> although the Ubuntu Docs team is going through some trouble, so maybe we should wait for them to resolve their issues and then ask them for some help?
[19:44] <tsimonq2> s/so//
[19:44] <wxl> yeah or maybe perhaps pining the mailing list might pull some people out that would rather work with a smaller team? i don't know
[19:44] <wxl> i think it would be good to ping the mailing list. we can always try later
[19:44] <wxl> give me a work item
[19:45] <tsimonq2> #action wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation
[19:45] <meetingology> ACTION: wxl: ping the ubuntu-docs mailing list about the Lubuntu documentation
[19:45] <tsimonq2> there
[19:45] <tsimonq2> moving on
[19:45] <tsimonq2> #topic LXQt
[19:45] <tsimonq2> giving the floor to gilir
[19:45] <tsimonq2> gilir: what's been going on in LXQt land? :)
[19:45] <tsimonq2> I hear there is a release incoming?
[19:46] <gilir> No progress here, LXQt planned a release some days ago
[19:46] <gilir> but it's not release yet
[19:47] <tsimonq2> alright, keep us posted :)
[19:47] <tsimonq2> #topic Startup Disk Creator - mkusb
[19:47] <tsimonq2> sudodus: you have the floor :)
[19:48] <tsimonq2> sudodus: anything new?
[19:48] <sudodus> Well, tecnically, mkusb is rather stable now
[19:48] <sudodus> and the Startup Disk creator alias usb-creator-gtk 0,3.2 is stable too
[19:49] <wxl> sudodus: how long before the qt version of mkusb is available? XD
[19:49] <tsimonq2> ^ XD
[19:49] <sudodus> But there is no progress to get mkusb accepted in a repository. I need help from someone who knows how to do it.
[19:50] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I can assist after the meeting if you wish
[19:50] <wxl> tsimonq2: it needs to go into debian first
[19:51] <tsimonq2> wxl: there's a process for that ;)
[19:51] <sudodus> I don't know if it is necessary with a particular version of mkusb for LXQt. mkusb works in Kubuntu already (but needs zenity, Would that be be in LXQt?)
[19:52] <sudodus> OK, tsimonq2, let talk about that after the meeting
[19:52] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[19:52] <tsimonq2> #topic Future meetings
[19:52] <tsimonq2> I have the floor for this one :)
[19:53] <tsimonq2> so would we meet on 10 August at the same time?
[19:53] <sudodus> I will probably be travel on 10 August.
[19:54] <sudodus> *travelling
[19:54] <tsimonq2> I wanted to bring this up because I have school coming up, and I don't know if there is a time that I can be here that everyone else can be here as well
[19:54] <tsimonq2> sudodus: so maybe the 17th?
[19:54] <sudodus> That's better for me
[19:55] <tsimonq2> I guess it's just something that I'd like to keep in mind, that I might not be able to make these meetings
[19:55] <wxl> well i think if we make them much later that makes it hard for gilir and redwolf
[19:55] <tsimonq2> when I get my schedule we can probably *see* if there is a different time, but we should be wary
[19:55] <tsimonq2> that is what I'm saying wxl
[19:56] <wxl> k i guess we'll see
[19:56] <tsimonq2> yep
[19:56] <tsimonq2> final agenda item
[19:56] <tsimonq2> #topic Snappy packages
[19:56] <tsimonq2> I personally love Snappy
[19:57] <tsimonq2> I'm a Snapcraft contributor
[19:57] <tsimonq2> and although Lubuntu supports installing a snap, it would be nice to have a Lubuntu snap
[19:57] <wxl> do you mean a lubuntu snap or an lxde snap?
[19:57] <tsimonq2> a Lubuntu snap
[19:58] <tsimonq2> I specifically wanted to hear from gilir on this
[19:58] <wxl> to make it easier for people to switch between flavors???
[19:58] <sudodus> Do you mean containing lubuntu-desktop?
[19:58] <tsimonq2> yes
[19:58] <tsimonq2> (to both of you)
[19:58] <gilir> I played a bit with snap
[19:58] <sudodus> where can we find how to make snaps?
[19:58] <tsimonq2> sudodus: http://snapcraft.io/
[19:59] <gilir> looks like a viable option for individual packages, but not really for an all desktop installation
[19:59] <wxl> i don't know, the idea of being able to switch flavors so quickly seems rather attractive
[19:59] <sudodus> Thanks, I'll look at it
[19:59] <tsimonq2> sudodus: we also have #snappy on freenode and a repo with a bunch of already snapped packakes: https://github.com/ubuntu/snappy-playpen
[19:59] <tsimonq2> *packages
[19:59] <gilir> it reminds me binary installation on windows ... copying all .dll in 1 folder ...
[19:59] <wxl> a common complaint i hear from users is how to get rid of all their non-lubuntu stuff when they install lubuntu-desktop
[20:00] <tsimonq2> I've been working on a little proof-of-concept: https://github.com/tsimonq2/lubuntu-distro-snaps
[20:01] <tsimonq2> gilir: so is your issue just the fact that it would be a snap of Lubuntu and not individual applications?
[20:02] <sudodus> o/ lynorian
[20:02] <tsimonq2> because if so, like I said, I would be willing to maintain it
[20:02] <gilir> tsimonq2, I can't really see the benefit of this
[20:03] <gilir> tsimonq2, if you make 1 snap by apps, the copy of all libraries in all snap wil be insane
[20:04] <tsimonq2> gilir: Snaps are fast, they are easy to update, they are secure, and like wxl said, it makes it easy to install Lubuntu and easily remove it if you wish
[20:04] <wxl> the primary pusher of snaps is ubuntu
[20:04] <gilir> tsimonq2, if you do 1 big snap wil all the packages, well, that will looks like a big massive horrible binary
[20:04] <tsimonq2> well I would be willing to test which is bigger, a Lubuntu snap or the lubuntu-desktop package installed
[20:04] <wxl> but people use ubuntu a little while and they think "wonder what the grass is like on the other side"
[20:05] <wxl> if they could just replace ubuntu-desktop with lubuntu-desktop that would be fantastic
[20:05] <gilir> tsimonq2, sounds like maketing to me, .deb can do a pretty good job
[20:06] <tsimonq2> gilir: yes Debian packages can do a good job, there are just specific advantages that wxl and I are looking at
[20:06] <tsimonq2> gilir: and like I said, I would be willing to maintain it
[20:06] <sudodus> Are there other differences except the packaging? I've heard about sandbox aspects of snaps.
[20:07] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it's similar to mounting an .iso image
[20:07] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it's read-only, you mount one image, and it's mounted as a loop device
[20:08] <gilir> tsimonq2, it's free software, do what you want :-) But cleary I don't have time to help on another packaging system (I saw some in the past years ...)
[20:08] <sudodus> So a read-only file system
[20:08] <tsimonq2> sudodus: yes, although it uses already existing filesystems, it doesn't roll it's own
[20:08] <tsimonq2> gilir: alright :)
[20:08] <gilir> Just saying, I tested them, I'm not so impress, and I don't think if useable for large scale of packages
[20:09] <tsimonq2> alright
[20:09] <tsimonq2> well we can talk more afterwards if you all want, but we're over time on our meeting
[20:09] <tsimonq2> thanks for coming everyone!
[20:09] <tsimonq2> #endmeeting
[20:09] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Jul 20 20:09:59 2016 UTC.
[20:09] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/lubuntu-devel/2016/lubuntu-devel.2016-07-20-19.00.moin.txt
[20:10] <wxl> thx all
[20:10] <tsimonq2> wxl: could you add 14.04.5 to the topic, maybe? :)
[20:10] <gilir> arf, I miss the topic about yakkety seed changes :-/
[20:11] <gilir> anyway, I'll send a mail about this
[20:11] <tsimonq2> alright gilir
[20:12] <gilir> tsimonq2, about 14.04.5, it fails to build sometime ago, you probably want to check if lubuntu-desktop is still installable on trusty
[20:13] <sudodus> I can test that too (on a mini text system).
[20:13] <gilir> I can't stay longer, sorry :-/ thanks tsimonq2 for the meeting :-)
[20:13] <tsimonq2> :)
[20:15] <sudodus> tsimonq2: is it time for a post-meeting talk about mkusb packaging now?
[20:15] <tsimonq2> sure :)
[20:16] <tsimonq2> sudodus: so you want the mkusb package in Debian/Ubuntu ?
[20:17] <sudodus> Well, in what way would it be better than in a Launchpad PPA? - easier for beginners to install ...
[20:18] <tsimonq2> sudodus: PPAs are somewhat unsupported
[20:18] <sudodus> I have read about the complicated route to an official debian/ubuntu package.
[20:18] <tsimonq2> and i can help with that
[20:18] <tsimonq2> *I
[20:19] <tsimonq2> sudodus: if you tell me where the source code is, I can debianify it, then I'll get it uploaded to Debian Unstable
[20:19] <tsimonq2> sudodus: it will then travel down to Ubuntu
[20:19] <sudodus> That's great - I enjoy programming and testing, but I'm not good at getting official or bureaucratic things working.
[20:19] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[20:20] <tsimonq2> so where is the source code?
[20:20] <sudodus> I think you might get it via two sources, ppa:mkusb/ppa and Phill's server
[20:21] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I mean, the source code
[20:21] <tsimonq2> where is it developerd?
[20:21] <tsimonq2> *developed
[20:21] <sudodus> http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/mkusb/
[20:22] <tsimonq2> so that is where it is developed?
[20:23] <sudodus> There is no compiled code, only bash shellscripts - I have my own directories with help scripts in my computer
[20:23] <tsimonq2> alright :)
[20:23] <tsimonq2> sudodus: you should really think about learning a version control system such as Git :)
[20:24] <sudodus> but the ppa contains the package, I would think in principle like you would use for an official repository
[20:25] <sudodus> Maybe that would help :-)
[20:25] <sudodus> I mean git.
[20:25] <agaida> is mkusb not this special alias cat *.iso > /dev/$foo ? :P
[20:25] <agaida> hi sudodus tsimonq2
[20:26] <tsimonq2> o/ agaida
[20:26] <sudodus> hi agaida
[20:28] <sudodus> Originally mkusb was only using dd under the hood. The important task is to wrap security around dd. Later on I added tools to wipe drives and create new partition tables and file system, and also a method to create persistent live drives. So it is a big shellscript (but still only bash).
[20:30] <sudodus> tsimonq2: Anyway, what are the steps that you can help me along?
[20:30] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'll make sure the debian files are compliant with the standards, I'll make sure it builds fine, then I'll ask a Debian Developer to upload it
[20:31] <tsimonq2> sudodus: then all you have to do is wait for the package to get down to Yakkety
[20:32] <tsimonq2> sudodus: in the meantime, since you have a PPA, I'll give you instructions for getting it into your PPA
[20:32]  * agaida think the release name will begin with a Z
[20:32] <sudodus> Sounds nice :-) ButI guess you will ask question along the path. I will try to reply and supply what you need.
[20:32] <tsimonq2> in fact sudodus, I just applied to be in the mkusb team
[20:33] <tsimonq2> sudodus: could you please approve me? :)
[20:36] <sudodus> Done
[20:37] <tsimonq2> great
[20:37] <lynorian> sudodus, does mkusb have a way to say you have an install disk but want to make it back into a mass storage device through new partition table and then putting a partition on it with security?
[20:38] <sudodus> If you have not done it, I suggest that you install mkusb into your Lubuntu system according to this link
[20:38] <sudodus> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/mkusb#Quick_start_manual_and_mkusb_PPA
[20:39] <sudodus> and get used to it.
[20:40] <sudodus> No, but it can do it (overwrite whatever is on the drive). It can also fix issues with GPT, and the backup table at the tail end of the drive
[20:46] <sudodus> tsimonq2: You are silent. Do you need more fast feedback now, or can I leave this chat? We can always send eemails, and when you want, when can start chatting again at this channel.
[20:46] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'm working :)
[20:46] <tsimonq2> sudodus: I'll give you feedback via email soon if you wish
[20:47] <sudodus> Thanks :-)
[21:27] <tsimonq2> wxl: aaaaaand we have a hardware tester! \o/
[21:28] <wxl> whoozat?
[21:29] <tsimonq2> wxl: look on lubuntu-devel list
[21:29] <wxl> oh ian? i kind of tend to ignore his emails as i do fritz'. not to be mean, but theere's always so much detail, i'm not sure what the point is half the time.
[21:30] <tsimonq2> wxl: well tl;dr he tested and it works fine :P
[21:32] <wxl> well that's ghood
[21:36] <wxl> tsimonq2: nio got at the issue i have
[21:37] <tsimonq2> aha
[21:37] <wxl> testing without docuemted results is pretty much useless
[21:38] <wxl> s/\(documented\)/formally \1/
[21:38] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:38] <wxl> i've sung this same refrain over and over and there are certain folks who just seem to either ignore it or not get it
[21:40] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:41] <wxl> going forward that's an area of potential improvement
[21:41] <wxl> whether it be in how we communicate it or documenation or i don't know what
[21:41] <tsimonq2> wxl: trying something over and over expecting different results is insanity
[21:42] <tsimonq2> wxl: if you really want it to stop, enforce it
[21:42] <wxl> that's why i said area of potential improvement
[21:42] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:42] <wxl> there's nothing to enforce that will result in positive results
[21:42] <wxl> i can say "you're going to get banned from the list unless your testing ends up documented formally on the tracker as per our instructions"
[21:42] <wxl> in which case the response will likely be "ok, well, i'll stop testing then"
[21:43] <wxl> what we need is to convert the interest and effort into formally documented results
[21:43] <wxl> perhaps the task seems too daunting?
[21:43] <wxl> instructions need help?
[21:43] <wxl> like i said, i don't knwo
[21:43] <tsimonq2> no, I would send them a private email saying something like this, "I really really want you to keep testing, you are a great tester, but could you please report your results in the appropriate place as well as posting on the mailing list?"
[21:44] <tsimonq2> why do you assume that enforcement is negative?
[21:44] <wxl> what you're talking about is encouragement not enforcement
[21:45] <tsimonq2> then let's exersize encouragement
[21:45] <tsimonq2> I guess, why be negative? why use an iron hammer?
[21:45] <wxl> yeah i don't want to be
[21:45] <wxl> that's what i'm saying
[21:45] <wxl> it won't help
[21:45] <wxl> of course neither will ignoring and that's mostly what i've resolved to do XD
[21:47] <tsimonq2> I'll say something to them next time
[21:47] <wxl> i guess we'll see if he follows nio's advice..
[21:47] <tsimonq2> yep
[21:48] <tsimonq2> meanwhile I'm packaging mkusb and getting it ready for Debian
[21:48] <wxl> wow
[21:48] <wxl> so you know the whole process of packaging for Debian and then getting it in Ubuntu?
[21:48] <tsimonq2> like the back of my hand
[21:49] <wxl> wow could you document it?
[21:49] <tsimonq2> well, not really, but I'm close
[21:49] <tsimonq2> well there's docs all over
[21:49] <wxl> yeah and i think that's the problem
[21:49] <wxl> they're all over
[21:49] <wxl> not in one place
[21:50] <tsimonq2> I see
[21:50] <wxl> imagine if you had to read the entirety of the rsync manpage across several unlinked manpages
[21:52] <tsimonq2> yeah :P
[21:52] <tsimonq2> wxl: I'll make a blog post
[21:53] <wxl> yes please
[21:53] <tsimonq2> wxl: do you know what the check-all-the-things package is?
[21:53] <tsimonq2> XD
[21:53] <wxl> no but it sounds nice!
[21:54] <tsimonq2> it literally goes through and picks your package apart
[21:54] <wxl> see what i'm saying
[21:54] <wxl> i haven't even seen this mentioned before
[21:54] <wxl> although it's proabably on SOME page somewhere
[21:54] <tsimonq2> yeah
[21:57] <tsimonq2> *gasp* git cherry-pick is AWESOME! :D
[22:12] <agaida> its even more awesome with the -n switch


[00:41] <Sput> ScottK: even better? I mean I'm working on telepathic tab completion, but...
[00:42] <ScottK> Sput: I think putting the person in the last line first on the tab complete list would reduce errors a lot.
[00:42] <Sput> hmmm... not sure about that, especially in larger channels with several unrelated conversations going on
[00:43] <persia> Sput, How are you implementing the telepathy for that?  Brain scan, or implied correct behaviour based on pattern analysis?
[00:43] <Sput> the former should be easier
[00:43] <Sput> I am also thinking about mind control, meaning that the IRC client will convince you that you *wanted* to tab the guy you tabbed
[00:45] <persia> We don't have BCI working for the computer output channel yet.  We do have 11-bit input kinda fuzzily: if you have a good idea how to have an HID provide the "telepathic" input based on that sort of thing, I'd really like to hear about it (and you can emulate the interface by fiddling with many-button-mice or extra keyboard keys)
[01:10] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179271 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp Better handling of the coexistance of security and normal updates from a string point of view
[01:23] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179274 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/kded/UpdateEvent/UpdateEvent.cpp *Ahem*
[01:48] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179278 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/package.cpp QChar is more efficient in this case since it's a char, not a string
[02:01] <CIA-116> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1179279 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/libqapt/src/backend.cpp Also check to see if the dpkg status file is newer than the xapian index, so that we can catch new packages installed directly via dpkg
[02:16] <CIA-116> [muon] jmthomas * 1179280 * trunk/extragear/sysadmin/muon/ (ChangeLog libmuon/MuonStrings.cpp muon/FilterWidget.cpp) Add an "apt-get autoremove" filter
[03:13] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: bug 647261 (lunchpad is still munching on skrooge)
[03:16] <JontheEchidna> bug 647262
[03:19] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Which one of those needed release team approval?
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> skrooge will need an FFe
[03:19] <JontheEchidna> kmymoney is a packaging fix
[03:20] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: skrooge approved (it helps if you subscribe the release team ....)
[03:20] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:20] <JontheEchidna> No prob
[04:31] <lex79> ScottK: perhaps are you working on kwave?
[05:07] <lex79> JontheEchidna: can you upload kwave from here? https://launchpad.net/~alessandro-ghersi/+archive/ppa/+packages
[05:36] <lex79> JontheEchidna: also kmplayer from my ppa
[05:36] <lex79> thanks
[06:12] <ScottK> lex79: I'm hoping to find someone to fix the docbook stuff that's causing it to FTBFS.
[06:12] <ScottK> lex79: I'll grab it if JontheEchidna didn't already.
[06:18] <ScottK> lex79: Uploaded.
[06:18] <lex79> ScottK: thanks, also kmplayer needs upload
[06:18] <ScottK> Yep.  Looking at that now.
[06:18] <lex79> ok
[06:21] <ScottK> lex79: That one's uploaded too.  Thanks.  I'll accept them when they hit the queue too.
[06:21] <ScottK> (since Universe isn't frozen they don't need a release team review)
[06:21] <lex79> good, thanks :)
[06:25] <ScottK> lex79: Any chance you could look at ktoon on armel?
[06:26] <ScottK> lex79: Also don't forget to include me on the sponsors you invite to comment on your motu application.
[06:27] <lex79> ScottK: I'll look tomorrow, I'll not forget, thanks ;)
[06:27] <ScottK> Great.
[06:57] <maco> when i try to open videos from kmail attachments in dragon, dragon crashes immediately. anyone else?
[09:14] <sheytan> why do i have new kde 4.5.1  updates? ;D
[11:35] <shadeslayer> ScottK: some of them yes...
[11:42] <shadeslayer> amarok is b0rked with phonon backend -.-
[11:43] <ari-tczew> shadeslayer: let's use clementine
[11:43] <shadeslayer> ari-tczew: i was using that earilier... but i just use vlc backend now :P
[11:44] <shadeslayer> more likely that my phonon is borked
[11:44] <ari-tczew> aha
[11:44] <shadeslayer> its a git compile..
[13:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pingly
[14:03] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well... ive sorted the issue on how to parse args to zsync, cant actually think of a way to start a new progress dialog and kill the original widget, needz help
[14:04] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://gitorious.org/qzsync/qzsync/commit/cfabfe8ae8479e7c0b5e870f739c469fc6b6c087 :: sorts everything
[15:05] <apachelogger> you cannot kill the widget at any rate because currently the widget embodys the process
[15:05] <apachelogger> at the point you would delete the widget the process would get deleted too
[15:06] <ulysses> if I try to open a PPT, Writer starts, if i start Impress, and open the PPT, writer starts again, WTF?
[15:06] <apachelogger> to fix that you will need seperate implementations for frontend and backend
[15:22] <sheytan> Hey
[15:22] <sheytan> does file sharing works in maverick?
[15:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: pingly
[16:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: pongly
[16:22] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what should I talk about in my Qt talk @ ubuntuwhateverweek?
[16:22] <shadeslayer> oooh
[16:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: how about qzsync? :P
[16:22] <shadeslayer> how crappy it is
[16:22] <shadeslayer> and how everyone should NOT code that way :P
[16:22]  * apachelogger was considering flaming about how Qt i truley cross-platform and cross-language and everything for half an hour and the other half bash how GTK is NOT
[16:22] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that works as well :)
[16:23] <apachelogger> though seriously, an intro to Qt, that Qt is modular, so you can create gui-less apps too, that you can deploy stuff on every flipping OS out there and basically write in every language you do not want to write in
[16:23] <apachelogger> meanwhile have the users download the Qt SDK and then fire up creator to look at some examples
[16:24] <apachelogger> maybe edit one
[16:24] <apachelogger> SDK because that way I can be sure we all use the same version
[16:25] <apachelogger> oh oh oh, I probably should also rave about how Qt is used by Skype and VLC and various consumer multimedia products
[16:25] <apachelogger> and KDE of course :P
[16:27] <apachelogger> OTOH the SDK is rather large too
[16:28]  * shadeslayer notes that apachelogger has a habit of talking to himself
[16:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: qt is large :P
[16:28] <shadeslayer> also
[16:28] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Looks like kplayer in multiverse needs some docbook fixing.
[16:28] <apachelogger> you only notice now? :P
[16:28] <shadeslayer> gtk is crossplatform as well... i used deluge on vista
[16:28] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's not large, it's comprehensive.
[16:28] <shadeslayer> ScottK: looking :)
[16:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: GTK is not cross-platform
[16:28] <apachelogger> GTK is essentially ported
[16:29] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: idk if it works on macs
[16:29] <shadeslayer> but it worked on windows
[16:29] <apachelogger> Qt i designed cross-platform
[16:29] <shadeslayer> ScottK: is it on udd ?
[16:29] <apachelogger> hence you can drag Qt on every platform that has a cpp std library
[16:29] <ScottK> No idea.
[16:29] <shadeslayer> its a archive rebuild failiure right?
[16:30] <apachelogger> (that is if you implement the platform dependent shit such as painting)
[16:32] <shadeslayer> ScottK: also i will be cherry picking a few patches from rekonq, but not sure when they will be committed, they will fix bug 647332
[16:32]  * apachelogger notes that rekonq patches tend to break things on other ends
[16:32] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Yes.  Archive rebuild failure.
[16:32] <apachelogger> such as that javascript patch that essentially broke cookies
[16:32] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah :(
[16:35] <apachelogger> Nightrose: I think I will go on tour with a Qt talk
[16:35] <apachelogger> that is actually something I can identify with
[16:36] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: make me a progress bar :P
[16:36] <shadeslayer> or help me make one :D
[16:36] <apachelogger> qt:/qprogressbar
[16:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: Would you agree that kvdr would be essentially useless without sound capability?
[16:36] <ScottK> It is still built against arts
[16:36] <apachelogger> Sput: when will make arbitary protocols work? :(
[16:36] <apachelogger> !info kvdr
[16:36] <ScottK> And I'm thinking rather than building it --without-arts, we should just remove it.
[16:37] <ScottK> Actually it probably had it's binary removed during lucid so it's source only now.
[16:37] <apachelogger> ScottK: tag unmaintained and boot
[16:38] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:38] <apachelogger> if you have no sign of a KDE 4 port after whats it 2.5 years after the first platform release that is a clear sign of unmaintainedness IMHO
[16:44] <ScottK> Agreed.  Removal bug filed.
[16:50] <shadeslayer> ScottK: dude.. this will be a huge patch... their docbooks are foobared
[16:51] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Thanks for taking care of it.
[16:51] <shadeslayer> :P
[16:51] <shadeslayer> ill be fixing these the whole night ^_^
[16:51] <shadeslayer> just hope ebn works :)
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you can build krazy yourself
[16:56] <apachelogger> pretty easily too
[16:56] <shadeslayer> i knows .. but i dont want to build ^_^
[16:56]  * apachelogger j9s kamoso
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: what is the failure?
[16:56] <apachelogger> you really just need some perl foo IIRC
[16:56] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~lucas/ubuntu-nbs/32/kplayer_1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1_lubuntu32.buildlog
[16:56] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: of krazy I mean ;)
[16:57] <shadeslayer> oh.. none
[16:57] <shadeslayer> i just dont feel like building it :P
[16:57] <shadeslayer> !search kdex.dtd
[16:58] <apachelogger> afiestas: why does kamoso have no effects? :(
[17:04] <apachelogger> ohh
[17:04]  * apachelogger goes flaming gnomies
[17:07]  * apachelogger tells shadeslayer to promote solution #7 of http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25741/
[17:07]  * shadeslayer looks at solution 7
[17:07] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[17:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ill uo vote it but whats the point... no ones going to ever look at it :P
[17:08] <shadeslayer> *up
[17:08] <apachelogger> you just watch :P
[17:08]  * shadeslayer really does need a new phone
[17:08] <apachelogger> for 11.04 they will acknowledge the supremacy
[17:08] <shadeslayer> hehe ... they just dont have enough spaze on the you-boon-too CD
[17:09] <apachelogger> they have games on the you bun too CD
[17:09] <apachelogger> and I think even multiple wallpapers
[17:09] <apachelogger> see
[17:09] <shadeslayer> yeah
[17:09] <apachelogger> everything I would like to see on our CD is what they have
[17:09] <shadeslayer> so they will kick niceness and bring in loads of kdelibs? :D
[17:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah :(
[17:10] <shadeslayer> i wantz the wallpapers
[17:10]  * apachelogger should brainstorm that Kubuntu gets distributed on good old floppys
[17:10] <apachelogger> just so we can remove more useful things of a 2010 operating system
[17:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that will take about a good 700 floppy disks and 1 floppy reader i guess
[17:11] <ScottK> nixternal: Can haz powerpc?
[17:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: one one floppy!
[17:11] <apachelogger> why would we need more than one?
[17:11] <shadeslayer> because theres never been a 700MB floppy? :D
[17:12] <apachelogger> we surely do not need 700MB
[17:12] <apachelogger> lets see
[17:12] <apachelogger> browser is pointless
[17:12] <apachelogger> so is message-indicator
[17:12] <apachelogger> and kopete
[17:12] <apachelogger> ah well, all that is network
[17:12] <apachelogger> amarok is too fat, aplay will do
[17:13] <apachelogger> packagekit is duplicated with apt-get and aptitude
[17:13] <apachelogger> k3b can go
[17:13] <apachelogger> hm, maybe we should just shift our target audience
[17:13] <shadeslayer> quassel as well
[17:13] <shadeslayer> just use irssi instead
[17:13] <apachelogger> irssi is fat
[17:14] <apachelogger> one would not think so, but it is
[17:14] <apachelogger> I propose we write our own client in bash
[17:14] <apachelogger> make that dash
[17:14] <apachelogger> lets drop bash altogether
[17:14] <shadeslayer> :)
[17:15] <shadeslayer> kdepim is fat as well...
[17:15] <apachelogger> true that
[17:15] <apachelogger> lets drop KDE
[17:16] <apachelogger> we cannot squeeze it on the CD, why would we be able to squeeze it on floppies
[17:16] <shadeslayer> aye
[17:16] <apachelogger> anyhow
[17:16] <apachelogger> apachelogger's topic for UDS: "we go DVD or else..."
[17:16] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: put it on kubuntu/UDSNatty
[17:17] <shadeslayer> where haz that page gone :O
[17:17] <apachelogger> I think primarily it needs to go into lunchpad
[17:17] <apachelogger> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/25873/
[17:17]  * apachelogger is wondering if xz is threading
[17:18]  * apachelogger is wondering how one would thread that anyway
[17:20]  * apachelogger considers it way too difficult and moves on
[17:20] <apachelogger> also not very robust
[17:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: how about delta upgrades from kubuntu ppa's ?
[17:20] <shadeslayer> also
[17:20] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: for that dpkg needs to grow delta stuff
[17:20] <shadeslayer> i do not see a kplayer-0.7-5 in debian
[17:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: IIRC theres a program for thta
[17:21] <shadeslayer> !info debdelta
[17:21] <apachelogger> that is far from a framework
[17:21] <apachelogger> from that description it sounds like it just is a diff/patch for binary
[17:22] <shadeslayer> oic .. see we haz 1:0.7-0.5ubuntu1 ....
[17:23] <apachelogger> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/lucid/man1/debdelta-upgrade.1.html
[17:23] <apachelogger> that is still not integrated enough
[17:23] <ScottK> apachelogger: I think it would make sense for the DVD to have it's own metapackage so if you install from the DVD you get a VERY complete system.
[17:24] <apachelogger> what would be needed is that the archive pool declares that for package foo versions x and y and ... deltas are available and then apt-get (or any client) decides on user setting whether to get the delta and upgrade using that or download the package
[17:24] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:24] <apachelogger> also you could back that stuff up with additional algorithms to avoid the staticness ... i.e. if load is high never go for delta
[17:24] <shadeslayer> and for generating delta's, what do we do?
[17:25] <apachelogger> if bandwith is known to always be high then go for delta, unless user deselected that or load is high
[17:25] <apachelogger> ...
[17:25] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that needs to be in soyuz
[17:25] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:25] <shadeslayer> itll never be implemented then :P
[17:25] <ScottK> They'll take patches, but you have to do copyright assignment.
[17:25] <apachelogger> but really, before any step in that direction can or should be taken it needs to be worked out properly how to implement this on both server and client side
[17:27] <apachelogger> ScottK: own DVD metapackage && use DVD as primary distribution media && maintain CD as secondary media without *any* additional locales
[17:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: Let's make it a workable secondary first.  Then discuss what should be primary.
[17:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: with that attitude certainly not :P
[17:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: workable secondary is not much of an effort is it?
[17:28] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's been discussed before, but never actually happened, so so far, however little, it's been too much.
[17:29] <ScottK> Should be relatively easy to add a new seed and a new metapackage to kubuntu-meta.
[17:29] <apachelogger> I made a fluffy iso, it does not get much more horrible than setting up your own iso factory :P
[17:29] <apachelogger> especially with the general ubuntu dislike for documentation
[17:30] <ScottK> Also, since ShipIt just does CDs, I don't think we should call CD secondary.
[17:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: shipit also needs to change
[17:30] <ScottK> Right, I've no doubt you can do it.
[17:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: You convince Canonical of that and I'll back switching to the DVD as primary.
[17:30] <apachelogger> or maybe we should just have them both as primary
[17:30] <ScottK> I'm fine with that.
[17:30] <apachelogger> CD certainly becomes more maintainable if we take localization worries out of the picture completely and entirely
[17:31] <apachelogger> and isntead add the constraint that CD might not offer the complete user experience you get with the DVD
[17:31] <ScottK> Right.
[17:33] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: IMHO dpkg/apt need to be rethought anyway somehow that whole package paradigm does not suit today's needs
[17:34] <shadeslayer> hmm
[17:34] <shadeslayer> true that
[17:34] <markey> Maverick is neat :)
[17:34] <apachelogger> with uprise of devices that have no stronge CPU AND might not have no good intarwebs either
[17:34] <markey> slightly unstable still
[17:34] <markey> but overall it works
[17:34] <apachelogger> like previously you had a computer or a server with either good bandwith or not so good one, but that did not change
[17:35] <apachelogger> now you might be running around with your N900 and connectivity swaps around wildely
[17:35] <markey> apachelogger: in KDE 4.5.1, the KDE tool for multi-monitor support does not remember settings after reboot
[17:35] <markey> apachelogger: afaik it's fixed in 4.5.2, I would definitely use that patch
[17:35] <markey> it's a major nuisance
[17:35] <apachelogger> so what I outlined earlier about taking load and speed into account for delta downloads does not really fix the problem properly either
[17:35] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whats up with http://extras.ubuntu.com/
[17:36] <apachelogger> ScottK: ^ do we know anything abou that multi-monitor stuff?
[17:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you always come up with domains I do not know about :P ... what is extras?
[17:36] <shadeslayer> no idea.. its apparently a repo of sorts
[17:36] <ScottK> apachelogger: I don't.
[17:36] <shadeslayer> but not sure what goes into it
[17:36] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ah, that application review board stuff foo
[17:37]  * apachelogger meant to blog about that too
[17:37] <apachelogger> ahh
[17:37] <ScottK> markey: If you can point me at the change that's going into 4.5.2, I can cherry pick it.
[17:37]  * apachelogger needs to see his physician on monday to get something against the sleepyness
[17:37] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whaa?
[17:37] <ScottK> (or even tell me what package to find it in)
[17:37] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ubuntu is going to accept new apps to be sort of backported to older releases via extras
[17:38] <shadeslayer> oic
[17:38] <apachelogger> I really did not get in what regard it exactly is different from backprots
[17:38] <apachelogger> but oh well
[17:38] <markey> ScottK: difficult, as I only read about this in a forum. but I'll try to find it, if you give me until tomorrow or so?
[17:38] <apachelogger> oh, actually it is more limited in that it only accepts completely new apps
[17:38] <apachelogger> which makes me wonder about the point exactly
[17:38] <ScottK> markey: Tomorrow would be about the last day.
[17:38] <markey> yeah
[17:38] <markey> I'll try to find it asap
[17:38] <apachelogger> there are only two places where it could be broken I think
[17:38] <apachelogger> well three
[17:39] <apachelogger> kephal
[17:39] <apachelogger> the display kcm
[17:39] <apachelogger> and krandrtray
[17:39] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's for applications that are so critical that the user must have them now, but at the same time so crappy, we don't actually want them in Ubuntu.
[17:39] <ScottK> I'm not sure how many that will be.
[17:39] <markey> ScottK: so the tool is apparently called "KRandRTray"
[17:39] <apachelogger> because they all 3 have code copies of each other :D
[17:39] <apachelogger> it is a true beauty
[17:39] <ScottK> markey: OK.
[17:39]  * markey checks websvn
[17:39] <markey> sec
[17:39] <apachelogger> ScottK: surely it is related to that whole opportunistic development stuff :P
[17:40] <ScottK> debfx is our expert krandrtray/kcm/whatever fixer.  Maybe he already knows.
[17:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: Sure.  It just doesn't actually manage to accomplish much.
[17:40] <apachelogger> unlike quickly
[17:41] <apachelogger> I have seen loads of great apps created with quickly already
[17:41] <apachelogger> photobomb and ehm. eh.. eh....
[17:41] <apachelogger> well
[17:41] <apachelogger> :P
[17:41] <markey> ScottK: do you happen to have a kde svn checkout at hand?
[17:41] <markey> ScottK: I have no idea in which module the tool is located
[17:41] <markey> a "find" would do it
[17:41] <ScottK> markey: No, but I have kdesvn open pointing at KDE svn.
[17:42] <ScottK> Those are in -workspace.
[17:42] <ScottK> I'll have a look.
[17:42] <markey> ok
[17:42] <apachelogger> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/KDE/4.5/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/
[17:42] <apachelogger> no changes since branching
[17:43] <markey> ok, let me point you to this forum page about it
[17:43] <markey> BINGO
[17:43] <markey> http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=163707
[17:43] <apachelogger> nothing changed in kephal either
[17:43] <markey> ScottK: ^
[17:44] <apachelogger> that is a long-standing issue
[17:44]  * apachelogger is not sure we should add it at this point
[17:44] <apachelogger> not exactly regression free
[17:44] <markey> here's the forum discussion: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=20494&start=15
[17:44] <markey> bcoocksley seems to know the details
[17:46] <apachelogger> markey: that is targetted at trunk
[17:46] <apachelogger> well
[17:46] <apachelogger> the fix is
[17:46] <markey> hm
[17:46] <apachelogger> markey: if you have krandrtray in autostart do the settings get applied?
[17:46] <shadeslayer> ScottK: do we need kplayer-data and kplayer-docs package? or do i follow debian and lose those packages?
[17:46] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Follow Debian.
[17:47] <markey> that's the thing I didn't understand: the tool is in my panel (at least I think that is the tool), so it gets autostarted
[17:47] <markey> or am I misunderstanding something?
[17:47] <shadeslayer> good.. because in the last merge we kept that change for some reason
[17:47] <ScottK> apachelogger: They do.  We did that for one release, but then it's always in the tray.
[17:47] <markey> not sure how this tool in the tray is called
[17:47] <apachelogger> markey: the monitory icon?
[17:47] <markey> yes
[17:47] <shadeslayer> ScottK: i guess add a Replaces and Conflicts ?
[17:47] <apachelogger> that is krandrtray
[17:47] <apachelogger> and if that is started it is supposed to apply the settings
[17:47] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Replaces and Breaks.
[17:47] <markey> but having it in the tray doesn't help
[17:47] <apachelogger> if that is not the case than that is a different bug
[17:48] <shadeslayer> hmm never used breaks
[17:48] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It's in the newest version of Debian Policy.
[17:48]  * apachelogger thinks debfx should look at krandrtray ^^
[17:48] <markey> yep :)
[17:48] <markey> debfx: our savior!
[17:48] <shadeslayer> ScottK: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-breaks
[17:48] <shadeslayer> reading that
[17:48] <ScottK> Yep
[17:49] <shadeslayer> ahhh
[17:49]  * apachelogger only has a multi-monitor setup in graz, and currently is like 200km away :P
[17:49] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: your not in graz
[17:49] <shadeslayer> ??
[17:49]  * apachelogger is in upper austria right now
[17:49] <apachelogger> winter semester only starts next week
[17:50] <shadeslayer> also... open suse conference on 20-23rd October ...
[17:50]  * apachelogger did not get invited
[17:50]  * apachelogger never gets invited anywhere
[17:50] <ScottK> markey: AFAICT that's only in trunk and wasn't backported to the 4.5 branch (with good reason).
[17:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: contact sabdfl :P
[17:50] <apachelogger> oh, I was invited to a party yesterday ... but I couldnt attend ^^
[17:50] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/529
[17:51] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: sabdfl said sponsor someone from the community council :P
[17:51]  * apachelogger is not on that council
[17:51] <apachelogger> these council elitists ....
[17:51] <apachelogger> oh hold on, I am on a council too ;)
[17:51] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: join said council > apply for said sponsorship
[17:51] <shadeslayer> bahahaha
[17:52] <shadeslayer> kplayer from debian is broken too
[17:52] <apachelogger> hmmmmmmm
[17:52] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you know, I never ever saw jockey pop up in new installs
[17:52] <apachelogger> for like 3 releases or so
[17:52] <ScottK> markey: You can work around problems by adding a command line xrandr call to /etc/kde4/kdm/Xsetup.
[17:53] <apachelogger> even if there was stuff to be done
[17:53] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is not good ...
[17:53] <apachelogger> use .kde/env/ instead
[17:53] <apachelogger> drop a simple shell script there
[17:53] <ScottK> Works though.
[17:53] <apachelogger> presumably that is also what the aformentioned bug report does too
[17:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: only until kdm gets an upgrade though, no?
[17:54] <apachelogger> then diffing will be needed
[17:54] <apachelogger> so I would preferr the KDE env solution
[17:54] <ScottK> apachelogger: No.  Then if that gets changed (almost never happens) you'll get asked to resolve the conflict.
[17:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: see, that is inconvenient :P
[17:54] <ScottK> Only if that file changes on the upgrade which is reasonably unlikely.
[17:55] <markey> ScottK: I heard about the workaround, but think about average users
[17:55] <apachelogger> so while it works I still would not ever do it
[17:55] <markey> ScottK: it's not exactly elegant
[17:55] <ScottK> markey: Right, but that's a most than slightly invasive change.
[17:55] <markey> many users have multiple monitors now
[17:55] <apachelogger> hm, true
[17:56] <apachelogger> ScottK, markey: given the magnitude of the issue maybe we should consider a stable release update?
[17:56] <ScottK> Part of the problem with messing with video stuff is there are so many possible configurations it's hard to test enough to avoid regressions for someone.
[17:56]  * markey mumbles about KDE's horrible quantity over quality issues
[17:56] <markey> it kills me
[17:56] <ScottK> apachelogger: It's a feature change, not a bug fix, it wouldn't qualify.
[17:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: no, it is a bug fix
[17:56] <markey> well, major bug though
[17:56] <markey> yeah
[17:56] <apachelogger> the bug being that the settings are not being restored
[17:56] <markey> clearly a bug fix
[17:56] <ScottK> OK.
[17:56] <ScottK> Maybe then.
[17:56] <markey> no way it was supposed to work like that
[17:57] <ScottK> OK.  Long standing bug then.
[17:57] <apachelogger> ScottK: what we probably should do for SRU is streamline changes out of what lubos did in KDE trunk
[17:57] <ScottK> Riddell tends to be more sporting about these sorts of things than I am.
[17:57] <ScottK> Maybe he'll want to go for it.  If so, I'm OK with it.
[17:57] <apachelogger> from the commit message it sounds like some architectural stuff was done
[17:57] <apachelogger> but the general principal of the fix should be SRUable
[17:58] <ScottK> OK.
[17:58] <markey> apachelogger: I haven't looked into the issue in depth, but isn't it like this try tool just needs a little pat on the shoulder?
[17:58] <apachelogger> actually if we can get it to an SRUable dimension I would also opt for targetting 10.04
[17:58] <markey> apparently it works as soon as you right-click it once
[17:58] <markey> (I haven't tested this yet)
[17:58] <apachelogger> markey: that too
[17:58] <debfx> ScottK: in lucid the resolution is restored when krandrtray is autostarted
[17:58] <ScottK> I'm also not on ubuntu-sru, so my opinions are just that.
[17:58] <apachelogger> markey: but the tray tool is not autostarted
[17:58] <markey> sounds like a really stupid bug then
[17:58] <apachelogger> so the tray tool at best is a work around
[17:58] <markey> apachelogger: here it is
[17:58] <apachelogger> a blood ugly one if you ask me
[17:59] <markey> I mean, it apppears in the tray after restart
[17:59] <ScottK> debfx: Thanks.
[17:59] <apachelogger> also I think the krandrtray not working might be coming from dbusmenu/kstatusnotifieritem
[17:59] <ScottK> So if that doesn't work in Maverick, it's a regression and definite SRU material (the krandrtray autostart thing, not the kcm rewrite).
[17:59] <markey> aye
[17:59] <apachelogger> markey: yeah, session restoring, but not unless the user once manually started it
[17:59] <markey> apachelogger: so I should try to make it autostart, and then it should work?
[17:59] <markey> I'll try that
[17:59] <apachelogger> ScottK: the KCM was not rewritten, the autostarting code was made workign again ;)
[18:00] <markey> that'd be an easy fix
[18:00] <apachelogger> markey: oh, that could be it
[18:00] <apachelogger> kapps can check for restore cant that? :)
[18:00] <ScottK> In any case, if you can identify a regression, that's clear SRU material.
[18:00] <apachelogger> *nod*
[18:00] <markey> speaking of System Settings, from KDE 4.4 to KDE 4.5 it got a whole *worse*
[18:01] <markey> I have trouble finding anything
[18:01] <markey> who in the world would have done this to the nice GUI?
[18:01] <markey> I hope Seele did not approve of this
[18:01] <markey> can't imagine she did
[18:02] <apachelogger> markey: bcoocksley I suppose, as he is maintainer of systemsettings
[18:02] <markey> ouch
[18:02]  * apachelogger also does not think it is an improvement, having it used for quite some time I do not think it did get worse though
[18:02] <markey> always a good idea to talk to KDE-Usability first...
[18:02] <markey> brb
[18:02] <apachelogger> IMHO the usage paradigm there is flawed altogether
[18:02] <apachelogger> also from a design POV
[18:02] <markey> ack
[18:06]  * ScottK gets a headache moving back and forth between KDE 4.4 and 4.5 machines.
[18:07] <ScottK> (and using systemsettings)
[18:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: ive figured out the issue
[18:12] <shadeslayer> wont be long before i haz merge for you :D
[18:14] <ScottK> OK.  I'll probably be gone by then, but I'll be back later.
[18:14] <shadeslayer> ok ill put it in my PPA then
[18:16] <KRF> yep, system settings got worse between the last few releases
[18:16] <KRF> the filter widget is useless since you still have to find the matching entry and click it
[18:17] <KRF> totally useless
[18:28] <shadeslayer> ScottK: still there? can you look if i did this right? http://paste.ubuntu.com/500454/
[18:28] <shadeslayer> ( the breaks and replaces field )
[18:31] <shadeslayer> hmm.. i think i can drop the | mplayer-nogui stuff as well
[18:31] <ScottK> shadeslayer: They don't need to be versioned since the packages were dropped, but other than that, it's good.
[18:31] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:34] <markey> apachelogger: bad news, that Autostart trick doesn't work at all
[18:34] <markey> I placed a symlink there to this tray app
[18:34] <markey> no change
[18:34] <markey> neither does right-clicking the tray app do anything good
[18:34] <apachelogger> debfx: ^
[18:34] <markey> who codes such a bloody mess... an app that doesn't remember its settings
[18:34] <markey> it boggles the mind
[18:35] <markey> as far as I can see, this KRandTray thing simply doesn't store its own settings
[18:35] <markey> that's all
[18:35] <markey> O.o
[18:37] <shadeslayer> ScottK: um... i dont see doc files in debian/kplayer.install ... what do i do?
[18:37] <shadeslayer> and neither in debian/docs
[18:39] <apachelogger> markey: it doesnt have own settings
[18:39] <apachelogger> markey: IIRC it is sharing settings with the KCM (or kephal, or maybe both?)
[18:39] <apachelogger> but yes, it is a bloody mess
[18:39] <apachelogger> and I think it is mostly because that crap is unmaintained and without someone who has a clear vision
[18:39] <apachelogger> also kephal is largely a code duplication of the KCM yet the KCM does not use kephal
[18:39] <apachelogger> ...
[18:41] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Figure out the best thing.  Maybe that's why the packages weren't dropped on the last merge.  Try to figure out why we have them and Debian doesn't.
[18:41] <shadeslayer> yeah ..thats what im trying
[18:53] <shadeslayer> we needz to keep those packages ...
[19:18] <Quintasan> hmm
[19:18] <Quintasan> someone pinged me
[19:18] <nigelb> Quintasan: ping.
[19:18] <nigelb> There. HAppy?
[19:18] <sheytan> Quintasan me, yesterday ;P
[19:18] <Quintasan> oh
[19:18]  * Quintasan is busy with school things and has almost no time from irc apart from polish lessons
[19:19] <Quintasan> sheytan: so, what's up?
[19:19] <sheytan> Quintasan i've logo for you :P
[19:19] <Quintasan> !!!1!!
[19:19] <Quintasan> shiftone
[19:19] <sheytan> Quintasan it's in two color variants. let me show you
[19:21] <sheytan> Quintasan http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/214/g4623.png
[19:21] <sheytan> http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6756/pj512.png
[19:21] <Quintasan> I'd like those letter more fancy and pink
[19:21] <Quintasan> :P
[19:22] <Quintasan> shadeslayer: ^^
[19:22] <Quintasan> and bigger
[19:22] <Quintasan> sheytan: ^
[19:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: ive seen them yesterday :D
[19:22] <Quintasan> sheytan: so, can you make PN bigger, fancier and pink on top of that? :D
[19:22] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: pink? were not Project Pink
[19:22] <sheytan> pink looks cooler :D
[19:22] <shadeslayer> were Project Neon :P
[19:23] <Quintasan> pink neon light == win
[19:23] <Quintasan> s/project\ neon/pink\ project\ neon/
[19:23] <Quintasan> oh crap
[19:23] <sheytan> So
[19:24] <sheytan> pink or black?
[19:24] <Quintasan> sheytan: pink
[19:24] <Quintasan> please ping me with the result, I have to for for 30 minutes
[19:25] <sheytan> sure
[19:36] <eMyller> ellos
[19:37] <eMyller> where did kmail 2 go?
[19:37] <eMyller> i can't find it anywhere Oo
[19:45] <nixternal> ScottK: out of town right now. bibke races.
[19:54] <shadeslayer> eMyller: its in experimental ppa
[19:54] <shadeslayer> eMyller: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/experimental
[19:55] <eMyller> ty :D
[19:55] <sheytan> Quintasan sorry, i can't today. Can't comeout how nicely connect text with background ;/
[19:55] <eMyller> weird, i should have it in my sources...
[19:55] <ScottK> nixternal: OK.  Thanks.  Please let me know when you can fire it up.
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> ScottK: something i can test for you whle nixternal is out riding?
[20:02] <ScottK> jjesse-netbook_: You have a power pc system?
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> nope :(
[20:02] <jjesse-netbook_> didnt know that was the problem
[20:02] <ScottK> OK, then no.
[20:03] <ScottK> Yeah.
[20:04] <jjesse-netbook> hrm
[20:09] <shadeslayer> jjesse-netbook: oh oh
[20:09] <jjesse-netbook> ?
[20:09] <shadeslayer> hold on
[20:10] <jjesse-netbook> holding :)
[20:10] <shadeslayer> now where did that bug go
[20:11] <shadeslayer> jjesse-netbook: bug 625833
[20:11] <shadeslayer> please looky
[20:11] <shadeslayer> i think its invalid.. since its GIMP not gimp
[20:12] <shadeslayer> ScottK: https://edge.launchpad.net/~rohangarg/+archive/experimental/+files/kplayer_0.7-2ubuntu1.dsc
[20:12] <shadeslayer> also.. wait for 20 mins before uploading :) .. the 32 bit package will be built by then
[20:13] <jjesse-netbook> ok will look but we are in freeze there for translations so i can commit a fix but will land wehn we do a doc update not before rlease
[20:14] <shadeslayer> sure ... but like i said... its probably invalid
[20:18] <jjesse-netbook> ok will look at it
[20:29] <lex79> ScottK: too difficult fix ktoon on armel, it ftbfs since 2007 in Debian http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiProblems#ktoon
[20:29] <lex79> ScottK: anyway there is a new version http://www.ktoon.net/portal/download_counter, maybe fix the problem
[20:30] <lex79> the code is much changed in the newest versions
[20:40] <seele> markey: i with system settings would stop changing until we figure out an actual solution
[20:41] <markey> seele: IMHO this needs a proper usability analysis before any hacker messes with it again
[20:48] <apachelogger> that reminds me that someone still didnt get her bread crumbs in kickoff ^^
[21:01] <ulysses> omg, giovanni sent an e-mail to kubuntu-devel…
[21:05] <apachelogger> I think it is truly a tragedy (admittedly minor, but tragic nontheless)
[21:05] <apachelogger> that apparently the relevant developers don't monitor this ku-user list,
[21:05] <apachelogger> so that user level concerns could get an answer for all the users to
[21:05] <apachelogger> see, from the relevant website & wiki developers.
[21:05] <apachelogger> that is an interesting POV
[21:09] <neversfelde> still no launchpad for me
[21:10] <neversfelde> ahh
[21:14] <claydoh> apachelogger: that dude is a pain :/
[21:14] <apachelogger> claydoh: how so?
[21:14] <claydoh> apachelogger: and I am probably being kind
[21:15] <claydoh> not his ideas, just his cross-posted questions/demands
[21:15] <claydoh> just ask Mamarok
[21:16] <apachelogger> Mamarok: consider yourself asked :)
[21:17] <Mamarok> apachelogger: and what is the question?
[21:17] <apachelogger> am I too drunk?
[21:17] <claydoh> Mamarok: john_re
[21:17] <apachelogger> ah, no
[21:17] <apachelogger> Mamarok: why is that person a PITA
[21:17] <Mamarok> oh my...
[21:18] <Mamarok> apachelogger: he has not a clue, asks the same questions all over again and cross-posts on at least 3 lsits at a time
[21:18] <Mamarok> and he never thanks for an answer or gives feedback if the question is answered (as Basil pointed out recently)
[21:19] <Mamarok> and I sometimes suspect him to quest ask questions for the sake of it
[21:19] <claydoh> apachelogger: and he even has askes others to post bug reports for his own problems
[21:19] <Mamarok> just*
[21:19] <apachelogger> maybe he should be lessoned and turned
[21:19] <apachelogger> turned into a minion
[21:19] <Mamarok> oh, right, he spends hours on mails but pretends not to have time to file a bug
[21:19] <ulysses> shortly: he is an idiot
[21:20] <Mamarok> ulysses: +1
[21:20] <claydoh> apachelogger: you can have him :(
[21:20] <Mamarok> sad to say so
[21:20] <claydoh> ulysses: +1
[21:20] <Mamarok> apachelogger: yes, please, take him :)
[21:20] <apachelogger> lol
[21:20] <apachelogger> see
[21:20] <Mamarok> you will never turn that guy into a minion, ever
[21:20] <apachelogger> if you bun too was less of a political project you would just ban it :P
[21:20] <claydoh> apachelogger: but I won't be buying you extra beer if you do
[21:20] <Mamarok> not in a thousand years
[21:20] <apachelogger> or rather I would be mod and ban him for being annoyed :P
[21:21] <Mamarok> two extra beers!
[21:21] <apachelogger> thankfully you bun too is not ^^
[21:21] <claydoh> apachelogger: you'd have a better time making me a minion
[21:21] <claydoh> :(
[21:21] <Mamarok> claydoh: should we ban him ?
[21:21] <claydoh> that came out wrong
[21:22] <ulysses> let the banhammer fall!
[21:22] <apachelogger> Mamarok: claydoh?
[21:22] <Mamarok> the point is that we don't have enough arguments for banning, he is just a PITA, that is maybe not a good argument
[21:22] <apachelogger> claydoh: you know, I can't help it, but that sounded kind of dirty
[21:22] <apachelogger> no, actually a lot
[21:22] <apachelogger> ...
[21:22] <claydoh> Mamarok: exactly
[21:22] <apachelogger> family friendly channel, yeah sure...
[21:22] <apachelogger> :P
[21:23] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I sometimes wish we were not...
[21:23] <claydoh> apachelogger: I don't know how to respond without making it less family freindly :D
[21:23] <lex79> apachelogger: do you have nvidia card with proprietary driver?
[21:23] <apachelogger> lex79: no, I have ATI card with proprietary driver
[21:23] <apachelogger> Mamarok: me too, a lot, just for the sake of enjoying a dirty joke :P
[21:24] <lex79> apachelogger: oh, does plymouth work with ATI ?
[21:24] <Mamarok> be it only to be able once to tell people to RTFM and learn to google...
[21:24] <apachelogger> lex79: I am on lucid
[21:24] <apachelogger> lex79: on mav there is no fglrx
[21:24] <lex79> ok
[21:24] <apachelogger> but radeon worked
[21:24] <apachelogger> pretty well
[21:24] <lex79> it doesn't work here :(
[21:24]  * Mamarok is really happy with her SSD :)
[21:24] <apachelogger> except that I only saw it for like 1 second ^^
[21:24] <apachelogger> Mamarok: ohhh, I envy you
[21:25] <claydoh> Mamarok: also if he is snubbed hard, he'll just fan his complaints out to the rest of the mailinglist world
[21:25] <claydoh> since he doesn't seem to understand forums (thank goodness:) )
[21:25] <apachelogger> hm
[21:26] <Mamarok> claydoh: oh yes, I remember when he insisted on talking on short notice at KDE camp
[21:26] <apachelogger> maybe the IAMANOVERLORD hammer would help
[21:26] <Mamarok> short notice as in two days
[21:27] <claydoh> Mamarok: anyway it seems that most of the list simply ignores him. Perhaps I should, too
[21:27] <Mamarok> we had to ban him from the irc channel in question, and I remember having banned him from #kubuntu as well
[21:27] <apachelogger> the one where lex79 replies to that somewhat odd complaint implicitly stating his supremacy as kubuntu developer and supreme haxx0r and someone who gives it to millions of people
[21:27] <apachelogger> ... the result of the supreme work that is
[21:28] <Mamarok> claydoh: well, maybe, but I doubt it will help, instead the k-u list will turn into a john-re soliloquy
[21:28]  * lex79 is confused
[21:28] <apachelogger> lex79: I just implicitly asked you to deal with the john_re problem at kubuntu-devel using the IAMANOVERLORD hammer
[21:29] <apachelogger> Mamarok,claydoh: does he answer stuff himself?
[21:29] <claydoh> apachelogger: no
[21:29] <apachelogger> sucking answers out of others without giving back is IMHO a very good reason for banning
[21:29] <Mamarok> apachelogger: nope, but he just asks the same question with slight changes all over again, and crossposts even more lists
[21:29] <apachelogger> or moderation for that matter
[21:29] <lex79> poor soul
[21:30]  * lex79 giggles
[21:30] <apachelogger> lex79: no giggling allowed, someone might op in and kick you out :P
[21:30] <Mamarok> hm, maybe we should set him on moderation again, but that implies we do read his mails so we can moderate...
[21:31]  * claydoh goes back to housecleaning to get this off his mind
[21:31] <Mamarok> and direct him to the right place, and that is the most tiring work actuall
[21:31] <apachelogger> Mamarok: or reject on general principle
[21:31] <Mamarok> y
[21:31] <claydoh> Mamarok: I am tired of always having to redirect him
[21:31] <Mamarok> apachelogger: he will start crossposting and complaining in a lot of places
[21:31] <apachelogger> "not related to topic" or "already asked, see list archives"...
[21:31] <claydoh> Mamarok: +1 :(
[21:31] <Mamarok> as he complained in the -ops channel about a year ago...
[21:32] <Mamarok> and in various kde-channels
[21:32] <apachelogger> so drag him in front of the council!
[21:32] <lex79> plymouth doesn't have much bugs open...just 127
[21:32] <claydoh> but he hasn't done anything 'wrong' exactly, yet
[21:32] <lex79> lol
[21:32] <Mamarok> that is the problem
[21:32] <Mamarok> he is a nuisance but we don't have enough to get rid of him
[21:32] <apachelogger> hurting the community in annoying people is wrong
[21:32] <claydoh> I'll take  the blame for taking him off moderation
[21:32] <Mamarok> enough reasons that would justify a banning
[21:33] <Mamarok> hm, claydoh, I will support you on that one, let us take the blame together :)
[21:33] <apachelogger> lex79: and I did not even report that kubuntu has a code copy of ubuntu's theme :P
[21:33] <Mamarok> moderation it is, then
[21:33] <apachelogger> lex79: and that I consider a major
[21:34] <lex79> all related to plymouth is a crap for me
[21:34] <claydoh> Mamarok: it was my kind-hearted nature that took him off of it :/
[21:34] <apachelogger> Mamarok, claydoh: how is general moodyness on the list these days btw?
[21:35] <apachelogger> claydoh: if you want to have a good time with me making you a minion that kind-hearted nature must go away :P
[21:35] <claydoh> apachelogger: super quiet, actually, low volume, and many 'regulars' don't even use KDE
[21:35] <Mamarok> apachelogger: not too bad, rather calm, I moderated the worst flamers wh were not even using KDE
[21:35] <apachelogger> lex79: well, I imagine that whole startup business a bit of a patchy hacky foobar crap
[21:35] <Mamarok> one started to tell people to use Gnome...
[21:35] <claydoh> apachelogger: I am a manager in a fast-food restaurant, I can turn that off and on at will nowadays :D
[21:36] <claydoh> or even both good and bad at the same time if I am good :)
[21:36] <apachelogger> claydoh, Mamarok: I imagine the target audience of Kubuntu prefers something more ... well ... modern, so that low volume could be a good sign
[21:37] <apachelogger> like if I would be using Kubuntu I would use a forum for support
[21:37] <apachelogger> oh shoot, now I gave away that I am running suse
[21:37] <apachelogger> meh.
[21:37] <claydoh> apachelogger: agreed. KFN is a very nice place to be
[21:37] <Mamarok> apachelogger: you will loose all your hair, markey did so after touching SuSE
[21:37] <ScottK> lex79: If you think it'd be better to have the new version (whether it fixes the FTBFS or not) then I'd say do an FFe and I can approve it.
[21:37]  * apachelogger notes: topic for UDS super duper monster specify what the target audience looks like
[21:38] <apachelogger> Mamarok: well, every distro got its crappynesses, some are just easier to bare than others
[21:39] <Mamarok> apachelogger: you go to UDS this time?
[21:39] <apachelogger> yus
[21:39] <Mamarok> nice :) it's about time you do :)
[21:39] <apachelogger> well, I am not there yet, so... ;)
[21:39]  * claydoh goes back to cleaning house (for real) while dreaming of buying a used  laptop to replace the nearly 8 year old one he has now
[21:40] <apachelogger> claydoh: ask novell to sponsor one and become contributor at opensuse
[21:40] <Mamarok> claydoh: I wanted to replace a HD in my sisters old laptop, it doesn't even have sata connectors :(
[21:40] <apachelogger> or try fedora, I am sure red hat is nice to their elite contributors
[21:40] <lex79> ScottK: I will see what I can do
[21:41] <ScottK> lex79: Thanks.
[21:41] <apachelogger> Mamarok: regarding such things laptops are evil anyway
[21:41]  * apachelogger just buys a new one every 2-3 years
[21:43]  * apachelogger gets himself a glass of sturm and wonders what movie to watch
[21:43] <ScottK> apachelogger: The reason I'm not on kubuntu-users ML anymore is excessively annoying users.  I couldn't take it anymore.
[21:43] <jjesse> ScottK i think that is the reason most devs aren't on that list
[21:44] <ScottK> Sometime, relatively recently, there was a long thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss to the effect that if users didn't play nice in their discussions with developers, they would just leave the list and chat on ubuntu-devel.  It seemed to calm things down.
[21:44] <ScottK> jjesse: Probably.
[21:45] <ScottK> One of the down sides of having actual elections for KC is that it's become much more developer focused.  When we just sat down and picked people, we had a better distribution of different interests.
[21:46] <apachelogger> my concern very much
[21:46] <apachelogger> thing is we do not actually have many non-developers running for KC
[22:01] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It looks fine, but drop kplayer-dbg.  That way it won't have to go through binary new (we didn't have that before).
[22:01] <ScottK> (ping me again when it's ready)
[22:03] <ScottK> shadeslayer: Also check the depends and see if it can move to Universe.  It's in Debian Main, so unless we have an added depends on something in Multiverse, it probably can.
[22:05] <Mamarok> ScottK: but most of those annoying users are not there anymore. Now we only need to get rid of those who don't use KDE (or win them back if they ever did)
[22:28] <maco> ScottK: the "devs are going to ignore u-d-d and stick to u-d" threads come up fairly regularly, dont they?
[22:28] <maco> i left u-d-d a bit over a year ago
[22:55] <ScottK> maco: Not recently.  It's been pretty calm recently.
[22:59]  * maco pokes kstandarddirs
[23:21] <lex79> ScottK: the new version of ktoon requires Kom http://www.ktoon.net/portal/download_counter to build and we don't have it in the archive, no chance to fix ktoon in maverick
[23:22] <ScottK> lex79: OK.  Thanks for looking into it.
[23:22] <lex79> no problem, I will do for natty
[23:23] <ScottK> Great.
[23:25] <lex79> most users complain that we don't have anymore qtmultimedia, it seems this cause problems with lucid backport but I don't understand which issues it causes
[23:40] <Riddell> I don't think we even had any users of qtmultimedia in lucid
[23:45] <lex79> there is a bug here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ppa/+bug/629349
[23:46] <lex79> uh and I received 2 annoying emails about that