[13:14] <cmaloney> morning
[13:30] <rick_h_> howdy
[14:00] <cmaloney> We're meeting with the Ann Arbor CHC group tonight: https://www.meetup.com/Ann-Arbor-Coffee-House-Coders/events/268775964/
[14:01] <cmaloney> Trying to get the word out. :)
[14:17] <rick_h_> Nice
[14:18] <jrwren> https://legacyos.org/hpe-sets-end-date-for-hobbyist-licenses-for-openvms/  almost like you should put your stock in such things eh?
[14:18] <rick_h_> got it https://twitter.com/mitechie/status/1247891593635348482
[14:36] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Thank you!
[14:37] <cmaloney> jrwren: This just reaffirms to me that unless it's an OSI-approved license it's just another rug waiting to be pulled
[14:37] <jrwren> yup
[14:39] <cmaloney> Also this feels precisely like the wrong sort of folks to poke with license costs
[14:39] <cmaloney> I mean, if you're the sort of person who picks up old VAX hardware and runs VMS on it, you're a pretty hardcore fan
[14:46] <cmaloney> Also, "student licenses" sound like fun, especially with a 6 month renewal
[14:47] <jrwren> yeah, i don't think DEC, Compaq, or HP was ever accused of doing a good job building their user base outside of enterprise.
[14:47] <jrwren> you'd think they'd take a clue from MSFT, but nope.
[14:53] <cmaloney> Well, it's a separate company from HPE
[14:54] <cmaloney> which, I'm sure that was a bunch of former DEC / CompaQ / HP employees creating a company because HPE couldn't be bothered to support the OS
[14:54] <cmaloney> But DEC was never cheap when it came to licenses. I remember pricing out the "multi-user license" for a DEC Alpha.
[14:54] <cmaloney> $10K in 1990s $$
[14:55] <cmaloney> It was absurd
[14:55] <cmaloney> The compiler license for these machines was also absurd
[15:03] <jrwren> i mean over the last 25 yrs.
[15:03] <jrwren> the last 25 have provided a lot of lessons that whoever owns the IP has chosen to ignore
[15:04] <jrwren> sure, and then alpha linux came out, and even windows NT for alpha and those were cheaper.
[15:05] <jrwren> and people wonder why windows servers got such traction. That is a huge part of it right there.  It's hard not to feel slightly smug about not having to worry about this. ;)
[15:09] <jrwren> yup
[23:37] <rick_h_> cmaloney:  wheeeee
[23:40] <rick_h_> cmaloney:  do you know any of these folks?
[23:40]  * rick_h_ looks up wtf "livecode" is
[23:41] <cmaloney> I know Brian and Paul Vagnozzi
[23:41] <cmaloney> they come to the Royal Oak CHC meeting
[23:41] <cmaloney> and I've seen a few of the other folks at the meeting (I made it there in Feb 2019)
[23:41] <rick_h_> cool
[23:41] <cmaloney> Yeah, definitely some cross-pollination
[23:42] <cmaloney> A few folks look familiar from inteviews and what-not, but I'm shit with names
[23:42] <rick_h_> hah yea ok
[23:47] <jrwren> i probably know a lot of 'em since I go to AA CHC often enough
[23:57] <cmaloney> likely


[04:45] <Moon_Doggy> ubottu xfce panels
[04:46] <Moon_Doggy> anyone hear
[04:46] <Moon_Doggy> here
[05:01] <balvonas> and what's up with them?
[05:03] <Moon_Doggy> they were missing
[05:04] <Moon_Doggy> but i got them back
[05:04] <Moon_Doggy> but the real question is why
[05:04] <balvonas> maybe you started/used some plugin that caused panel crash
[05:05] <kainektisis841> hey i'm an ubuntu user and i'm operating on about an 8 year old machine i think it is not even 1 ghz processor, would i gain anything by switching to xubuntu
[05:05] <balvonas> panel can't dissapear itself
[05:06] <kainektisis841> anybody there
[05:07] <Moon_Doggy> well i do the same thing with this machine every day
[05:08] <balvonas> kainektisis841: well, you will use xfce instead of Gnome
[05:08] <Moon_Doggy> turn on, login, start x-chat and chrome , and when i'm done shut down
[05:08] <kainektisis841> what is the difference they look the same
[05:08] <kainektisis841> can't you use the same programs too
[05:08] <balvonas> xfce is less fat
[05:09] <balvonas> kainektisis841: yes, of course
[05:09] <balvonas> you can use same programs
[05:09] <kainektisis841> so theoretically opening and using the internet should work faster on a slower cpu
[05:10] <balvonas> xfce is faster then Gnome theoretically
[05:10] <balvonas> ;]
[05:11] <kainektisis841> can you run windows programs using linux
[05:11] <balvonas> kind of
[05:11] <kainektisis841> what do you mean
[05:11] <balvonas> not everything
[05:11] <balvonas> you can emulate windows
[05:11] <Moon_Doggy> wine
[05:11] <balvonas> yes
[05:12] <kainektisis841> is it programs that are more graphically advanced like games that are harder to run
[05:12] <balvonas> yes
[05:12] <kainektisis841> i have a lexicon for greek words and it isn't that graphically demanding
[05:12] <balvonas> it should work i guess
[05:13] <kainektisis841> does it run itunes
[05:14] <balvonas> no it does not
[05:14] <balvonas> oh
[05:15] <kainektisis84> sorry guys i got booted from the internet
[05:15] <kainektisis84> does wine run itunes
[05:15] <balvonas> no clue
[05:16] <balvonas> http://appdb.winehq.org/
[05:16] <balvonas> here's the list of software wine is compatible with
[05:18] <kainektisis84> thanks
[05:18] <balvonas> correction
[05:18] <balvonas> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&sTitle=Browse%20Applications&sOrderBy=appName&bAscending=true
[05:23] <kainektisis84> why are .mp3 files supposedly protected
[05:23] <kainektisis84> when i added the support for it it said that it was illegal in some countries
[08:00] <ziroday> Hi, trying to access http://torrent.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/karmic/release/alternate/xubuntu-9.10-alternate-i386.iso I get a forbidden error, where am I supposed to get the alternate i386 .torrent files?
[08:01] <ziroday> and so are the desktop images :(
[08:01] <psycho_oreos> I'm presuming it doesn't end in .iso, I'm thinking its .torrent or .iso.torrent
[08:05] <ziroday> psycho_oreos: yes?
[08:05] <ziroday> psycho_oreos: oh I follow now :)
[08:05] <psycho_oreos> ziroday, have you tried instead searching for torrents via google?
[08:05] <ziroday> psycho_oreos: yes the .iso.torrent files work, however the .iso files don't. I'll file a bug about it now
[08:06] <psycho_oreos> ziroday, you mean the iso files downloaded via torrent doesn't work or you mean the link doesn't work? lol
[08:07] <ziroday> psycho_oreos: I mean there shouldn't be a link to the .iso file on t.u.c :)
[08:07] <psycho_oreos> ahh
[09:31] <Goliath> where is the smbpasswd saved at?
[10:26] <Tesssa> upgraded 9.4 to 9.10 in 9.4 you could attribute sounds for start up,shutdown and such but not with 9.10 the sound filles seem to have gone any reason why please
[10:26] <Tesssa> i use xubuntu
[10:28] <Ov3rf10w> lol sound for startup and shutdown xDDD
[10:29] <Tesssa> what is xDDD
[10:29] <Ov3rf10w> :D
[10:30] <Tesssa> not very helpful
[10:31] <Ov3rf10w> try this http://titotheman.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/changing-startup-sound-in-ubuntu-9-10-karmic/
[10:31] <Tesssa> thank you
[10:33] <Ov3rf10w> or this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1317785
[10:33] <Ov3rf10w> :)
[10:36] <|AbsyntH|> i need to lockdown the autoupdate of grub2 in ubuntu 9.10 ,i need that ubuntu write grub only in the partition and not in the mbr.
[10:36] <|AbsyntH|> This is my disks layout:
[10:36] <|AbsyntH|> ide0 opensolaris with his grub on the ide mbr (and i start ubuntu with  chainloader +1)
[10:36] <|AbsyntH|> sata0 xubuntu
[10:36] <|AbsyntH|> every time i ugrade ubuntu,it writes its grub2 on mbr of ide0 and i can't boot opensolaris
[10:37] <|AbsyntH|> any hints?
[10:41] <Ov3rf10w> Tesssa, ?
[10:45] <Tesssa> no good
[10:45] <Ov3rf10w> shit
[10:46] <|AbsyntH|> no solutions?
[10:46] <Ov3rf10w> Tesssa, Alert Volume in the Sound Preferences was turned down
[10:46] <Ov3rf10w> maybe
[10:46] <Ov3rf10w> :)
[10:46] <Tesssa> go into settings bring up settings editor and nothing
[10:47] <Tesssa> the volume is ok
[10:47] <Tesssa> something has been altered in the upgrade
[10:48] <Tesssa>  it worked perfect in 8.10 and 9.4
[10:48] <|AbsyntH|> Tesssa, your kernel modules are up?
[10:48] <Tesssa> whatever has changed has changed in the upgrade
[10:49] <Tesssa> the sound card works ok
[10:49] <remyo> What make Xubuntu so snappy? And what is it missing from the usual Ubuntu release?
[10:49] <Ov3rf10w> karmic is the bad version of xubuntu
[10:49] <Tesssa> it does the same in ubuntu 9.10
[10:49] <ablomen> |AbsyntH|, i googled a bit about the grub part, it seems this is not a bug but a feature (tm), the only option i see that may stop it from happening is holding the kernel packages
[10:50] <|AbsyntH|> you can try to look for bugs in the kernel release Tesssa
[10:50] <remyo> I'm trying Xubuntu right now for the first time. And it seems too good to be true
[10:50] <ablomen> so they don't upgrade, not sure though if that is the only package that updates grub
[10:50] <remyo> I'm wondering what the catch it
[10:50] <remyo> is*
[10:50] <ablomen> (oh and hold the grub2 package naturally)
[10:50] <Tesssa> havent a clue how to i am not a linux user
[10:50] <ablomen> not sure if it will help though
[10:50] <|AbsyntH|> ablomen, yes i've seen that...but if i found the script that upgrade automaticallt grub i can change it probably
[10:51] <Tesssa> but i do like xubuntu
[10:52] <Tesssa> if it was working in 9.4 why alter it
[10:52] <ablomen> /usr/sbin/update-grub might be it, it gets executed, dunno if grub-mkconfig installs it to the mbr though
[10:52] <Tesssa> the point is is it going to be like that in 10.4
[10:52] <|AbsyntH|> ablomen, tnx i'll take a look
[11:07] <slow-motion> hi
[11:08] <Ov3rf10w> slow-motion, hi
[11:08] <slow-motion> hi Ov3rf10w
[15:05] <vik> hello, my desktop is gone!!! I cannot do anything on it, no idea what happened, no right-click, no icons nothing, please help
[15:07] <vik> ok, i've fixed it with 'xfdesktop &', sorry.
[15:27] <aberhow> what does xubuntu use for the screen saver by default?
[15:27] <aberhow> xscreensaver or gnome-screensaver?
[15:27] <Ov3rf10w> gnome-screensaver
[15:28] <aberhow> ok thanks Ov3rf10w
[16:33] <hal> hello xubuntu world.
[16:33] <hal> sweet OS
[16:33] <djura-san> yeah :)
[16:34] <hal> my laptop loves it. and i have my kids on it too
[16:35] <djura-san> my pc love it too
[16:35] <djura-san> also my family
[16:35] <djura-san> (but i dislike artwork)
[16:36] <hal> yes, but thats a small price.
[16:36] <djura-san> of cours
[16:36] <djura-san> e
[16:36] <djura-san> :)
[16:37] <hal> i cant say i have had any issues with it. i come here now and then but i dont see any complaints..at least i havent :)
[16:38] <djura-san> well the base is good
[16:38] <djura-san> and xfce is stable in 95% of time so its good :)
[16:38] <hal> yes, i tried ubuntu but its a little too heavy for my comp.
[16:41] <oorah> how come thunderbird won't open links for chrome? it only does for firefox, which i removed
[16:42] <djura-san> tere is settings for that
[16:42] <djura-san> (i think)
[16:42] <djura-san> did you changed terminal for exo?
[16:42] <oorah> djura-san, i didn't see any i looked
[16:42] <djura-san> settings -> default apps?
[16:43] <oorah> djura-san, chrome is my default browser, but that didn't work for links in thunderbird
[16:43] <djura-san> hmm
[16:43] <djura-san> strange
[16:43] <djura-san> (let my try)
[16:45] <djura-san> yucj
[16:45] <djura-san> this tb is so ugly app
[16:45] <oorah> huh?
[16:46] <djura-san> slow and gui is yuck
[16:46] <djura-san> :|
[16:46] <hal> why use chrome?
[16:48] <oorah> chrome is the fastest browser
[16:48] <Sysi> midori is as fast
[16:48] <hal> what is the speed of your cpu?
[16:48] <Sysi> or arora
[16:49] <djura-san> firefox is resurce hog at the moment. midori is fast, and chrome is fast too.
[16:49] <djura-san> (midori uses webkit as well as chrome)
[16:53] <djura-san> sorry
[16:53] <djura-san> tbird does not work at my pc (dont wanna use my acc at gmail)
[16:53] <djura-san> :|
[16:53] <hal> yes i agree about firefox
[16:53] <Sysi> adblock still keeps me on it
[16:53] <hal> but i use it anyway
[16:53] <djura-san> Sysi, there is way to use adblock rules in midori too
[16:54] <Sysi> proxy?
[16:54] <djura-san> nope
[16:54] <djura-san> adblock-filters.txt > midori ;)
[16:55] <djura-san> (never tried it but i will soon since i hate ads)
[16:56] <Sysi> i didn't manage to get midori on centos :/
[16:56] <Sysi> haven't tried much though
[17:06] <Pres-Gas> Hello, folks!
[17:06] <hal> hello Gas
[17:06] <djura-san> ola gas
[17:07] <Pres-Gas> Busy today?
[17:07] <hal> slow as molasses in winter
[17:08] <Pres-Gas> Mayhap that means all problems are resolved then.
[17:09] <hal> thats what i was thinking too
[17:09] <hal> i like that. xubuntu works!
[17:10] <djura-san> or none of use use xubuntu at all :>
[17:10] <Balsaq> i di and i never even seen it hiccup
[17:11] <hal> haha
[17:11] <hal> i use it mostly on my laptop
[17:15] <Pres-Gas> hmmmm... #ubuntu is too busy though.
[17:15] <djura-san> as usual
[17:15] <djura-san> ;)
[17:35] <hal> i noticed
[17:36] <oorah> any desktop email clients that will open browsers other than firefox? for some reason thunderbird opens firefox only
[17:38] <hal> i never read what system "oorah" had
[17:41] <[mccracken]> Patience in an IRC chan... FTW...
[19:36] <slow-motion> hi
[19:44] <Pres-Gas> Hey, slow-motion
[19:44] <slow-motion> hi
[20:15] <linux_stu> i'm trying to figure out why the top and bottom panel on my xubuntu computer aren't appearing when i boot and login
[20:16] <linux_stu> and alt + f2 doesn't do anything
[20:17] <Balsaq> this prolly sounds dumb but can you adjust the monitor itself (buttons on the monitor front center) ?
[20:18] <linux_stu> Balsaq, i did try doing that, and it wasn't off the top and bottom of the screen
[20:18] <Balsaq> ok
[20:19] <Balsaq> and i suppose a reboot didn't do it either
[20:19] <linux_stu> this is on my grandparents' computer, and i'm trying to help them over the phone :(
[20:19] <linux_stu> Balsaq, nope
[20:19] <linux_stu> every time they reboot, an abiword window pops up.  i guess xubuntu remembers your previous session?
[20:20] <linux_stu> or maybe they changed startup applications...
[20:20] <Balsaq> yes becasue mine doesn't do that
[20:20] <linux_stu> yeah
[20:20] <TheSheep> clean your session
[20:21] <TheSheep> delete the fiels in .cache/sessions
[20:21] <linux_stu> ok TheSheep
[20:21] <TheSheep> files
[20:21] <linux_stu> this should be interesting... getting my grandparents to do this over the phone :/
[20:22] <Balsaq> TheSheep: when i finish using my xubuntu computer, i sometimes utilize bleachbit. does that do the same thing you are mentioning now?
[20:23] <TheSheep> no idea
[20:23] <Balsaq> when it runs it appears to be doing a ccleaner type of thing..deletes cache and all...its a buntu package
[20:52] <c00larr0w> i have a usb drive that is possibly infected with a virus.  Is there a good virus scanner that i can run on my xubuntu box to scan the usb drive?
[20:54] <TheSheep> no, but you can just delete the autorun file and the hidden directory in which the virus installed intself
[20:55] <TheSheep> itself
[20:55] <TheSheep> (actually there is clamav, but it's mostly for mail, I think)
[20:56] <c00larr0w> im not sure if it infected and so i dont know what virus it may be or where it might be
[20:56] <c00larr0w> ya i was thinking the same about clamav
[20:56] <Sysi> if there isn't any important data you can format it
[20:56] <TheSheep> the autorun.inf file
[20:56] <c00larr0w> there is
[20:57] <TheSheep> that file contains the path to the actual virus, just look inside
[20:57] <TheSheep> then delete it and the virus
[20:58] <c00larr0w> i dont see an autorun.inf file on the usb drive
[21:02] <c00larr0w> i did an ls and grep it for autorun.inf and it didnt find anything
[21:05] <c00larr0w> TheSheep, should i do it differently?
[21:07] <Pres-Gas> TheSheep, you can have clamav scan files.  I do not remember offhand what the syntax would be...but there is a gui
[21:10] <Pres-Gas> Ahhh...here we are.  for the GUI:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/clamtk
[21:11] <c00larr0w> Pres-Gas, thanks i will look into that.  i just want to scan this usb drive before i get plugged into a windows box and infects that box.
[21:15] <Pres-Gas> c00larr0w, here is the home page for the front end with more details on it: http://clamtk.sourceforge.net/
[21:15] <TheSheep> hal: why are you messaging people?
[21:15] <c00larr0w> Pres-Gas, ok thanks
[21:16] <hal> for information. isnt that what this room is about?
[21:18] <TheSheep> hal: it's a channel, not room, and it's for support, and we do it publicly, so that everyone can learn and correct mistaks
[21:18] <TheSheep> mistakes
[21:19] <hal> i'm glad
[21:19] <Pres-Gas> LOL, TheSheep....well timed
[21:19] <Pres-Gas> There is a bot, hal that loggs all of this chatter and posts it.  However, private messages do not get logged.
[21:20] <hal> then i will not use it anymore. i was not aware.
[21:20] <Pres-Gas> No problem, hal.  All good.
[21:20] <TheSheep> it's not even about logs, it's about trust -- when you do it publicly, you can't really cheat people into doing nasty stuff or revealing passwords
[21:21] <hal> thanks for the correction
[21:22] <TheSheep> hal: sorry for complaining, but I think it's important :)
[21:24] <Pres-Gas> People can be nasty at times.  Fortunately the crappy people are mostly filtered out here in freenode because they mostly hang out on the other HUGE chat servers.
[21:24] <hal> no need to apologize. i too am here to learn. I was curious since i saw something posted about "clanav" wanted to know if there was a new virus out. but i understand it was being used to scan on a windows box.
[21:24] <Pres-Gas> ...but not all of them are filtered out...
[21:25] <Pres-Gas> I tend to use the windows version of clamav on my vm's.  I don't tend to autorun installers I download from the interwebs.
[22:40] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> Hey guys, I know I asked this before..... but I forgot the answer. What is the IRC client that Xubuntu 9.10 comes with by default?
[22:41] <lvzimmer> Cyber_Akuma-Lapt, xchat
[22:42] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> It comes with xchat by default? Huh, I could have sworn I had to install that myself. Is that the gui based version?
[22:44] <lvzimmer> Cyber_Akuma-Lapt, i think so
[22:44] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> See, I am helping someone fix his computer through irc, and itll involve him reooting to linux with a livecd to perform some of the operations, hes not good with computers so I would need to use only gui programs for him
[22:46] <lvzimmer> Cyber_Akuma-Lapt, you could use pidgin too.
[22:46] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> Ah, that was the one somebody reommended before, thanks
[22:47] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> I know this is kinda  asilly question to ask but, there should be NO chance ofa  window virus managing to infect a linux livecd iso right? I know, though it is incredibly miniscule, that it might be possible for a virus to infect a windows based iso
[22:50] <lvzimmer> Cyber_Akuma-Lapt, i never hear something about it
[23:23] <Syndri> hi
[23:23] <Syndri> can someone help me with installation problems
[23:23] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> I can try, what kind of problems
[23:24] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> keep in mind im new to linux
[23:25] <TheSheep> !ask | Syndri
[23:26] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> At least he didn't ask "can I ask you a question?" XD
[23:26] <Cyber_Akuma-Lapt> I hate the oxymoronicss of that XD and yes, I know I spelled that wrong


[04:45] <sbalneav> Yay! New ltsp packages!
[06:06] <sbalneav> Hey LaserJock
[06:06] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[06:07] <sbalneav> Sitting in #ubuntu_doc?
[06:17] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you're a Launchpad Beta Tester?
[06:17] <sbalneav> I don't think so.
[06:18] <sbalneav> I *use* launchpad.
[06:18] <LaserJock> I think you have to be a beta tester to use PPAs right now
[06:18] <sbalneav> I suppose if it's in beta, and I'm using it, I'm a beta tester.
[06:18] <sbalneav> Heh, well, I activated it :)
[06:18] <sbalneav> Maybe sabdfl likes me :)
[06:19] <sbalneav> I guess what I was hoping was to do daily pkg publishes of the documents, so people could look at 'em in yelp, and follow allong as I went.
[06:20] <sbalneav> That way, if someone sent me even just TEXT they wanted included, I could format it, and get it in, and they'd see rapid feedback.
[06:23] <LaserJock> yeah, I'm thinking of doing the same thing
[06:24] <sbalneav> Hmm, just seeing if what I think will work, will work.
[06:26] <nixternal> PPAs aren't beta anymore...they are available for everyone now
[06:27] <sbalneav> ok
[06:28] <sbalneav> here's what I've done, which, sadly, doesn't work...
[06:28] <sbalneav> cd ubuntu-doc
[06:28] <sbalneav> svn export edubuntu ~/edubuntuwork
[06:28] <sbalneav> cd ~edubuntuwork
[06:28] <sbalneav> dch -i <make up lies about my work>
[06:28] <sbalneav>  debuild -S -sa -rfakeroot
[06:28] <sbalneav> which produces:
[06:29] <sbalneav>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
[06:29] <sbalneav> debian/rules:3: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk: No such file or directory
[06:29] <sbalneav> debian/rules:4: /usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk: No such file or directory
[06:29] <sbalneav> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/class/makefile.mk'.  Stop.
[06:29] <sbalneav> debuild: fatal error at line 1248:
[06:29] <sbalneav> fakeroot debian/rules clean failed
[06:31] <sbalneav> Ah, needed to install cdbs
[06:33] <sbalneav> ok, so, I've got a targz, and a dsc.
[06:33] <sbalneav> Now, that's what I upload to the ppa?
[06:34] <LaserJock> ok
[06:34] <LaserJock> hang on
[06:35] <LaserJock> first of all, it's not going to work quit right
[06:35] <LaserJock> the package needs some stuff outside edubuntu/
[06:35] <LaserJock> I svn export the whole ubuntu-doc
[06:49] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/edubuntu-doc$ dput edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
[06:49] <sbalneav> Upload package to host ubuntu
[06:49] <sbalneav> Already uploaded to upload.ubuntu.com
[06:49] <sbalneav> Doing nothing for edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
[06:49] <sbalneav> Hmm.
[06:49] <sbalneav> Well, I've uploaded SOMETHING, but my ppa shows no builds in progress, and nothing in my archive.
[06:50] <sbalneav> Also, they talk about putting ~ppa in the package name, not sure how I'd go about doing that.  Editing debian/rules?
[06:50] <LaserJock> umm, you tried to upload to Ubuntu dude :-)
[06:52] <sbalneav> That's what the docs said.  What would that be, the .dput.cf?
[06:52] <sbalneav> here's mine:
[06:52] <sbalneav> [my-ppa]
[06:52] <sbalneav> fqdn = upload.launchpad.net
[06:52] <sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ubuntu/
[06:52] <sbalneav> login = anonymous
[06:52] <sbalneav> pretty much what was in the getting started doc.
[06:52] <LaserJock> right
[06:53] <LaserJock> so you need to do dput my-ppa *_source.changes
[06:53] <sbalneav> ahhh
[06:53] <sbalneav> ok
[06:53] <sbalneav> I'm assuming I won't screw anything up for ubuntu :)
[06:53] <LaserJock> nope
[06:53] <LaserJock> you don't have rights
[06:54] <LaserJock> so it'll just reject it
[06:54] <sbalneav> That's what I figured.
[06:56] <sbalneav> hmm, ok
[06:56] <sbalneav> well, went up to my-ppa
[06:57] <sbalneav> ok, got the reject message on my first blunder :)
[07:08] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Still awake?
[07:08] <sbalneav> Rejected:
[07:08] <sbalneav> Could not find PPA for 'sbalneav'
[07:08] <sbalneav> Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution.
[07:08] <sbalneav> Signer is not permitted to upload to the component 'main' of file
[07:08] <sbalneav> +'edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1.dsc'
[03:07] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:07] <RichEd> hey hey sbalneav
[03:07] <sbalneav> How's it going, RichEd?
[03:08] <RichEd> okay ... and yourself ?
[03:09] <sbalneav> Doing fine.
[03:09] <sbalneav> Main development's done, so now I'm working on doc.
[03:10] <RichEd> good stuff
[03:10] <sbalneav> Tried to get the new PPA going last night, so I could issue daily updates to people on doc, and get feedback, but it doesn't appear to be working for me.
[03:10] <sbalneav> I'll snag ogra when he shows up.
[03:11] <ogra> lol
[03:11] <RichEd> yep ... better hids ogra
[03:11] <RichEd> *hide
[03:11] <ogra> shagged by the bumblebee man ....
[03:11] <ogra> sbalneav, hmm, dont ask me for ppa ... i havent used them myself yet
[03:12] <sbalneav> LOL
[03:12] <sbalneav> YOU were the one who POINTED me to it yesterday, you bugger! :)
[03:12] <ogra> my brain hurts
[03:12] <ogra> sbalneav, i *will* use them some day :)
[03:14] <sbalneav> Hey, not a huge panic, but localdevs are borken now, because we haven't updated the ltspfs stuff.  All the stuff for gutsy's in my ltspfs-nodm tree.
[03:14] <ogra> yep, i know
[03:14] <sbalneav> okie.
[03:14] <ogra> currently the udeb is more important
[03:14] <ogra> i need that fixed for tribe6
[03:15] <sbalneav> You do that voodoo that you do so well.
[03:15] <ogra> ah, well
[03:15] <ogra> the d-i stuff is freaky
[03:15] <ogra> you cant use stdin/out but need to redirect every bit through fifos
[03:16] <ogra> but hey, we have progress reporting in the installer now :)
[03:17] <ogra> now to find out the number of lines a ltsp-build-client spills out
[03:18] <sbalneav> lots, one expects
[03:18] <sbalneav> certainly one for every one of the ='s, and the spinny thing too.
[03:18] <ogra> hrm ... why does it stop now ?
[03:18] <ogra> gah
[03:19] <ogra>  Error: 'C' is not a supported language or locale
[03:23] <sbalneav> That's bad
[03:24] <ogra> well, we usually have a locale set if the udeb runs
[03:24] <ogra> i just need to source /etc/environment i guess
[03:29] <ogra> grr ...
[03:49] <monteslu> ogra, any idea how to globally set keyboard type in 7.04 ?
[03:49] <ogra> for te system of for ltsp ?
[03:49] <ogra> *the
[03:49] <monteslu> both, I think. didn't notice if it's wierd on the server
[03:50] <monteslu> is it in xorg?
[03:51] <ogra> no, it gets read from the server by ltsp-build-client and set to the same value in the client chroot
[03:51] <ogra> if you want to change the default, use lts.conf
[03:51] <monteslu> cool. I'll try that.
[03:51] <monteslu> you gonna be around in about an hour and fifteen minutes?
[03:52] <ogra> likely
[04:01] <sbalneav> ogra: Something we might want to do, now that we have an rdesktop script, is include the rdesktop application in the chroot by default.  It's not that big.
[04:01] <ogra> is it in main
[04:01] <ogra> ?
[04:04] <sbalneav> Good question.
[04:05] <monteslu> in ltsp4 i tried using rdesktop on screen_08 and startx on screen_07, worked but it would break after toggling twice or so
[04:06] <monteslu> probably something that should be tested
[04:06] <sbalneav> ltsp4? or 5?
[04:06] <monteslu> 4
[04:06] <sbalneav> heh, well, I'll test it in 5.
[04:06] <sbalneav> In 4, I don't care anymore :)
[04:07] <monteslu> it would be much nicer than having the teachers login just to fire up tsclient
[04:08] <monteslu> also, the rdesktop script in ltsp4 wouldn't do the same keyboard mapping as startx... I think the numberpad didn't work
[04:08] <monteslu> that might have been fixed though
[04:09] <cliebow> i Love my 4!!and my 5!
[04:09] <cliebow> be nice to my 4 8~)
[04:10] <monteslu> is crossposting to edubuntu-users and k12osn a no-no ?
[04:12] <ogra> no
[04:13] <monteslu> cool. seems like a lot of the same people on both.
[04:29] <bddebian> Heya
[04:42] <moquist> ogra: how goes it?
[04:50] <ogra> very bad ...
[04:51] <ogra> fighting with installer stuff ... weird redirects etc
[04:51] <moquist> :(
[04:51] <ogra> seems there is no way to do waht i want due to debconf limitations
[04:51] <moquist> Ai; that sucks.
[07:55] <LaserJock> hi ogra and moquist
[08:09] <moquist> LaserJock: hey
[08:09] <moquist> does apt-get not handle Recommends?
[08:10] <moquist> I always get told about the recommendations and think "Gee, it would be nice if I could go ahead and install some of those without re-running my command", but I've never looked into this.
[08:10] <moquist> Now it's turning out to be relevant for the moodle package, which only Recommends postgresql|mysql-server.
[08:11] <moquist> Googling for this has not been immediately helpful.
[08:11] <moquist> Ah - APT::Install-Recommends "true";
[08:13] <ogra> moquist, if they arent recommends they will always be instaled
[08:14] <LaserJock> Recommends: are only installed by apt-get for metapackages
[08:14] <ogra> thats obvoiously not what you want if you have frontend server and DB separately
[08:14] <ogra> moquist, thas why i said edubuntu-server would care for more details ;)
[08:14] <ogra> it will have a dep on the DB server
[08:15] <ogra> but the moodle package needs to be installable standalone
[08:15] <ogra> usually you only put stuff thats really needed to run the app into hard deps
[08:15] <moquist> it just seems to stink if we have a package that lets an admin type 'apt-get install moodle' and have the installation fail because she didn't install a DB server package first. I guess she should pay attention to the Recommends...
[08:15] <LaserJock> well
[08:16] <LaserJock> if it won't install without it it should be Depends
[08:16] <ogra> build a moodle-standalone package ;)
[08:16] <ogra> apt-get install moodle gives you the frontend ... needs a webserver and DB client
[08:16] <ogra> apt-get install moodle-standalone gives you the full fun :)
[08:17] <ogra> just create it in the control file ... it only needs to have the right deps :)
[08:17] <ogra> no content or anything
[08:17] <sbalneav> LaserJock, ogra, can we have a 2 minute discussion on docs, when you're done moodling around?
[08:17] <moquist> It sounds good to me.  I'm for it. These packages could all be built from.... yes, the same(?) control file?
[08:17] <ogra> right
[08:18] <ogra> put it in the moodle source  ... (have a look at ltsp-server vs ltsp-server-standalone in the ltsp source)
[08:19] <moquist> ogra: thanks for the tip. that's perfect and saves me asking later. :)
[08:20] <LaserJock> ok, so where are we with moodle?
[08:21] <LaserJock> is it basically ready?
[08:29] <ogra> we're pretty overdue
[08:29] <ogra> so it should be asap
[08:29] <moquist> I can delete the upgrade stuff we don't care about from the preinst, NP.
[08:29] <ogra> which one ? apache1 ?
[08:29] <moquist> Changing the questions will require me to learn more stuff, and that will take *some* time, though hopefully not much.
[08:29] <LaserJock> ok, what specifically needs to be done?
[08:29] <moquist> LaserJock: did you see my email from last night?
[08:29] <ogra> LaserJock, some debconf templates
[08:29] <moquist> ogra: do we *need* that stuff before gutsy?
[08:29] <ogra> (one more question)
[08:29] <moquist> ogra: though if it's easy...*shrug*
[08:29] <ogra> moquist, it needs to work
[08:29] <ogra> i dont care about apache1 as i said ... but i care about people upgrading existing installs for example
[08:29] <ogra> so that needs to work as well as new installs
[08:29] <ogra> if both is fine we can go with it
[08:29] <ogra> new installs should be fine with dropping apache1 stucc and adding one more low prio debconf question
[08:29] <ogra> *stuff
[08:29] <ogra> oh, and the -standalone metapackage
[08:31] <sbalneav> ogra: Who would I talk to about ppa?
[08:31] <moquist> ogra: I think we should still check for the circumstance where the moodle package wants to "Remove include from httpd.conf when upgrading from older versions", and instead of using wwwconfig to actually muck with the config, we should print a helpful message and stop (as I said in my email). Do you agree?
[08:31] <ogra> sbalneav, #launchpad probably
[08:32] <ogra> moquist, stop is bad
[08:32] <moquist> But the danger is a broken apache config. Surely that's worse?
[08:32] <ogra> moquist, notify is ok and leave it to the admin to set this specific part up manually
[08:32] <ogra> but dont stop the postinst for it
[08:32] <moquist> This will only happen when somebody is upgrading from a system that has /etc/<webserver>/httpd.conf.
[08:32] <moquist> No, this is preinst.
[08:33] <ogra> well, preinst then
[08:33] <moquist> OK, so don't stop.
[08:33] <ogra> neither should stop :) but dont touch the config ....
[08:33] <ogra> notify the admin, tell him what to do
[08:33] <ogra> and put the same info into README.Debian
[08:35] <moquist> Oh...the installation TELLS you to make sure that mysql or postgres is installed before continuing.
[08:43] <moquist> Should I do something like this right in preinst, I guess?
[08:44] <moquist> db_input critical moodle/old_webserver_config || true
[08:44] <moquist> That's only if we find the old configuration, etc. So it should almost never execute.
[08:44] <ogra> right
[08:52] <moquist> Well, it's not tested but I think #1 of my three questions is taken care of.
[08:52] <ogra> yay
[08:52] <LaserJock> \o/  \o/  \/
[08:52] <LaserJock> oh no, one of my cheerleader's heads fell off :(
[08:52] <moquist> headbanging?
[08:52] <moquist> \o/ \/ \o/ \/ \o/
[08:53] <moquist> Do packages ever speak in 1st person? ("I can create a database for you, or you can do so manually...")
[08:54] <LaserJock> not that I know of
[08:54] <LaserJock> that'd be kinda creepy ;-)
[08:57] <moquist> OK, no "I".
[09:00] <ogra> sbalneav, so did you try to upload to your ppa already ?
[09:06] <sbalneav> yeah, working on it now.
[09:06] <sbalneav> kiko's giving me love
[09:06] <sbalneav> ogra: mabey you know:
[09:06] <sbalneav> dput my-ppa edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
[09:06] <sbalneav> Already uploaded to upload.dogfood.launchpad.net
[09:06] <sbalneav> Doing nothing for edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1_source.changes
[09:07] <sbalneav> it failed yesterday because I wasn't a beta
[09:07] <sbalneav> Now I is
[09:07] <ogra> hmm
[09:08] <sbalneav> or just dch -i again?
[09:08] <ogra> dunno, i have no clue how it works internally
[09:08] <ogra> kiko will tell you if he gives support already
[09:09] <LaserJock> you don't want to upload to dogfood
[09:12] <ogra> well, you want to upload to ppa.launchpad.net
[09:12] <ogra> sbalneav, is your dput.cf ok ?
[09:13] <sbalneav> yeah, things have changed since yesterday :)
[09:13] <sbalneav> Sometimes, being an early adopter has it's drawbacks.
[09:13] <sbalneav> I'm fiddling now.
[09:14] <sbalneav> The one quiestion is, how do I get the suffix ~ppa on the package, like the doco suggests?  Edit debian/rules?
[09:14] <LaserJock> debian/changelog
[09:14] <ogra> its part of the version number ...
[09:14] <sbalneav> so just dch -i, and change the name?
[09:15] <ogra> you have to rebuild the source package
[09:15] <ogra> with the fixed version number
[09:15] <sbalneav> Why do I always think these things are MORE complicated than they are :)
[09:15] <ogra> than you can dch
[09:16] <sbalneav> Hmm, how do I build the source package from the doco repo? LaserJock?  Last night I just did a svn export edubuntu ~/foo, then I went into ~/foo, did a dch -i, and then a debbuild
[09:17] <LaserJock> debuild -S
[09:17] <ogra> or dpkf-buildpackage -rfakeroot -S -sa
[09:17] <ogra> *dpkg
[09:17] <LaserJock> but you need to watch watch what debian/ you are working with
[09:17] <LaserJock> if you do a svn export you need to rm debian/ and cp the one from edubuntu/
[09:17] <sbalneav> I was working with the one in the edubuntu directory
[09:18] <sbalneav> oh, I just exported the edubuntu sub dir by itself
[09:18] <sbalneav> is that ok?
[09:19] <LaserJock> no
[09:19] <LaserJock> let's do it step by step
[09:19] <sbalneav> Okie doke, I'm with you.
[09:20] <sbalneav> K, sitting here with an up-to-date repo.
[09:21] <LaserJock> k, so I svn export ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
[09:22] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/src/svn/trunk$ mkdir ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
[09:22] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/src/svn/trunk$ svn export ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
[09:22] <sbalneav> svn: '/home/sbalneav/tmp/edubuntu-docs' is not a working copy
[09:23] <LaserJock> sorry
[09:23] <LaserJock> svn export . ~/tmp/edubuntu-docs
[09:23] <LaserJock> gotta tell it to export the current directory, my bad
[09:24] <sbalneav> ok, done
[09:24] <ogra> LaserJock, its just one pixel difference :)
[09:24] <sbalneav> move the top level debian to debian.foo, and move edubuntu/debian ..?
[09:26] <LaserJock> ok, hang on a sec
[09:26] <sbalneav> hanging
[09:27] <LaserJock> ok, so you can rm -rf debian kubuntu xubuntu teamstuff website-index generic incoming ubuntu
[09:30] <sbalneav> Ok, so sudo cd / ; rm -rf *, got it.
[09:30] <LaserJock> heh
[09:31] <sbalneav> heh
[09:31] <ogra> bzr revert / ?
[09:31] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I also did rm Makefile validate.sh yelptest
[09:32] <sbalneav> cat /dev/random > /dev/eth0, ok
[09:33] <sbalneav> sbalneav@edubuntu:~/tmp/edubuntu-docs$ ls
[09:33] <sbalneav> build  common  edubuntu  libs
[09:33] <LaserJock> mv edubuntu/debian .
[09:34] <sbalneav> done
[09:36] <LaserJock> go into build
[09:37] <sbalneav> yup
[09:37] <sbalneav> edubuntu  folder.info  generic  kubuntu  styleguide  ubuntu
[09:37] <LaserJock> and remove the dirs not edubuntu
[09:38] <sbalneav> Done.
[09:39] <LaserJock> go into ../libs/
[09:39] <LaserJock> and remove pdf/
[09:39] <sbalneav> k
[09:40] <ogra> woah
[09:40] <ogra> thats a good bunch of work
[09:41] <sbalneav> It can be scripted :)
[09:41] <sbalneav> Ok, what's next.
[09:42] <LaserJock> ok, I think that's it
[09:42] <LaserJock> it should be ready to dch, etc.
[09:42] <LaserJock> and build
[09:42] <sbalneav> ok, lets see.
[09:42] <sbalneav> Where do I add the ~ppa to the package name, while I'm editing during the dch?
[09:43] <ogra> to the *version*
[09:43] <sbalneav> edubuntu-docs (7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1) gutsy; urgency=low
[09:43] <sbalneav> like that?
[09:44] <ogra> yeps
[09:45] <sbalneav> ok, for my ~/.dput.cf
[09:46] <sbalneav> [my-ppa]
[09:46] <sbalneav> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
[09:46] <sbalneav> incoming = ~sbalneav/ubuntu/
[09:46] <sbalneav> login = anonymous
[09:46] <sbalneav> ~
[09:46] <sbalneav> ubuntu on line 3? or edubuntu?
[09:46] <ogra> ubuntu
[09:47] <sbalneav> okay.
[09:47] <sbalneav> ok, uploaded
[09:48] <sbalneav> lets see if it builds
[09:49] <ogra> do you know when the cronjob runs ?
[09:49] <ogra> (did kiko tell you ?)
[09:50] <sbalneav> No, I don't
[09:50] <sbalneav> no, he didn't
[09:50] <ogra> so we'll wait :)
[09:50] <sbalneav> Maybe on our second date :)
[09:50] <ogra> hehe
[09:50] <ogra> i bet you met more than twice already
[09:51] <sbalneav> yeah, I've seen him lots of times.  He's about 1x10^5000 X as cool as I'll ever hope to be. :)
[09:52] <sbalneav> ooooaahhh!
[09:52] <sbalneav> Got an email...
[09:52] <sbalneav> [PPA sbalneav]  Accepted:
[09:52] <sbalneav>  OK: edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1.tar.gz
[09:52] <sbalneav>  OK: edubuntu-docs_7.07.1ubuntu1~ppa1.dsc
[09:52] <sbalneav>      -> Component: main Section: text
[09:53] <ogra> YAY
[09:54] <sbalneav> Now, we just gotta wait for it to build.
[09:55] <sbalneav> This is too sweet.
[09:56] <sbalneav> So, once it builds, and I'll try a test install, if that works, then I'll email -devel, and -users, let them know how to add my ppa-archive to their sources.list, and we should be good to go.
[09:56] <ogra> yeah
[09:57] <sbalneav> Then for the next few weeks, I'll just do a daily braindump of what I'm working on, and we can get some feedback!
[09:57] <sbalneav> LaserJock++
[09:57] <sbalneav> edubuntugirl: LaserJock++
[09:57] <LaserJock> sbalneav: got it scripted now?
[09:57] <sbalneav> No, I'll do that tonight :)
[09:58] <sbalneav> I'll have to remember to keep the changelog around when I re-export.
[09:58] <LaserJock> when you do maybe dump it in edubuntu/ when you do
[09:58] <LaserJock> so we can all enjoy ;-)
[09:58] <sbalneav> I shouldn't svn commit this ppa changelog, should I?
[09:59] <LaserJock> nah
[09:59] <LaserJock> let's just commit them when we actually upload
[09:59] <LaserJock> changelog would get huge ;-)
[10:00] <sbalneav> right.
[10:00] <sbalneav> RAWK ON DUUUDZ!!
[10:00] <sbalneav> https://launchpad.net/%7Esbalneav/+archive
[10:01] <ogra> geez
[10:01] <ogra> cool!
[10:03] <LaserJock> sbalneav: good, except the version is wrong ;-)
[10:03] <LaserJock> well, maybe not exactly
[10:04] <sbalneav> What'd I do?
[10:04] <LaserJock> hmm, I'll have to think about how to handle that
[10:04] <LaserJock> well the version is based on the month, like the release versions
[10:04] <LaserJock> so since it's the 8th month it should be 7.08
[10:05] <LaserJock> 7.08.1 since it would be the first upload this month
[10:05] <LaserJock> it doesn't matter for your ppa stuff until I upload a new version
[10:05] <LaserJock> but I just thought I'd let you know the versioning scheme
[10:05] <sbalneav> ok
[10:05] <sbalneav> Hm, don't think it grabbed it...
[10:06] <sbalneav> ogra: added:
[10:06] <sbalneav> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/sbalneav/ubuntu gutsy main
[10:06] <ogra> good
[10:06] <sbalneav> to my sources.list
[10:06] <sbalneav> however:
[10:06] <sbalneav> Ign http://ppa.launchpad.net gutsy/main Packages
[10:07] <sbalneav> on apt-get update
[10:07] <ogra> sure
[10:07] <ogra> there is no binary yet :)
[10:07] <sbalneav> Oh, hasn't built yet?
[10:07] <ogra> if it shows up here https://launchpad.net/~sbalneav/+archive/+builds?build_text=&build_state=all
[10:07] <ogra> then you have a binary
[10:07] <ogra> deb-src http://ppa.launchpad.net/sbalneav/ubuntu gutsy main
[10:08] <ogra> should give you a source package to download though
[10:08] <ogra> (apt-get source)
[10:09] <sbalneav> What would I apt-get?
[10:09] <sbalneav> Hmm, cant apt-get edubuntu-docs, that gets the main ones.
[10:10] <ogra> source should get the new one (after apt-get update indeed)
[10:12] <sbalneav> So it does.
[10:12] <sbalneav> ok, so we just have to wait for the package to build on launchpad.
[10:13] <LaserJock> sbalneav: it's not instantaneous to build packages you know ;-)
[10:13] <sbalneav> DARNIT, WHY NOT?!?!
[10:13] <sbalneav> I demand instant gratification.
[10:14] <LaserJock> sbalneav: you should see what happens when OO.o gets uploaded
[10:14] <sbalneav> I can only imagine.
[10:15] <sbalneav> I tried compiling it once, in the old 0.8 days.
[10:15] <sbalneav> Once was enough.
[10:15] <ogra> sbalneav, make some billions and push them in the datacenter for faster and more machines ;)
[10:15] <sbalneav> Dude, how many Billionairs does this project need :-D
[10:16] <LaserJock> more
[10:16] <LaserJock> :-)
[10:16] <sbalneav> Edubuntu: spawn more overlords
[10:17] <sbalneav> Sorry, starcraft jokes.
[10:24] <complique> hello everyone
[10:25] <ogra> hi
[10:46] <sbalneav> Alright!
[10:47] <sbalneav> Binary package built, and it upgrades!
[10:47] <sbalneav> Whoohoo
[10:47] <sbalneav> I'll post something to the list tonight.
[11:08] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Thanks for your help.  We'll be able to get edubuntu-docs package updates daily.
[11:09] <ogra_> wow, nice
[11:09] <sbalneav> I'm thinking we should just leave the current version number until string freeze.  At that point, I'll stop with massive updates, and we can release "proper" packages, as opposed to my ppa.
[11:09] <ogra_> right
[11:09] <sbalneav> ogra_: See my docs?
[11:10] <ogra_> your ppa should just always have a lower version than the final distro one
[11:10] <LaserJock> sbalneav: what've you added since the last package?
[11:11] <sbalneav> A ton, I've documented the nbd root stuff, began docs on the load balancing, but fgiraldeau said he wanted to do something on that, so I'll let him send me someting...
[11:11] <ogra_> sbalneav, yup, seeing it
[11:11] <ogra_> i havent downloaded it yet
[11:12] <sbalneav> I've begun to break stuff up into topics, not sure how the whole "topic based help" thing's going to work in practice, but at least the handbooks getting more... err... topicy.
[11:12] <sbalneav> I'm going to sit down tonight and write up a chapter on some network topologies, etc.
[11:12] <sbalneav> So lots of good things going in there.
[11:12] <sbalneav> ogra_: Where are we at with SCP?
[11:12] <sbalneav> Need a hand, still?
[11:13] <ogra_> yeah
[11:13] <sbalneav> Want me to do a apt-get source, and create a bzr tree for it tonight?
[11:13] <sbalneav> I'll start fixing some bugs.
[11:13] <ogra_> the userlist generation is still not working (actually i didnt look yet and the udeb thing seems to get quite tricky)
[11:13] <LaserJock> ogra_: oh, I was reading the script that creates the download pages on cdimage.u.c , etc.
[11:14] <sbalneav> I can fix that, I'm sure.
[11:14] <LaserJock> ogra_: and I think I could pretty easily hack it to do better with Edubuntu
[11:14] <ogra_> talk to colin about that
[11:14] <ogra_> he wrote most of it
[11:14] <ogra_> afaik
[11:14] <ogra_> or it moved over to newz2000
[11:14] <ogra_> not sure
[11:15] <LaserJock> the issues I see are 1) the desktop CD should *not* be the recommended install method  2) the addon cd should really be Edubuntu Addon CD not Edubuntu Server Addon CD
[11:15] <LaserJock> ogra_: well, there's a script in ubuntu-cd
[11:15] <LaserJock> I was assuming it's still being used
[11:16] <sbalneav> ogra_: You make any changes in your tree today?
[11:16] <ogra_> LaserJock, thing with the addon is that you might miss deps that are on the server CD
[11:16] <ogra_> sbalneav, ltsp ? no
[11:16] <sbalneav> k
[11:17] <ogra_> LaserJock, so it would need a network connection or the server CD around if you use it for example on a xubuntu machine
[11:17] <LaserJock> ogra_: hmm
[11:17] <ogra_> the name ties it to the server CD somehow
[11:17] <LaserJock> we'll we should at least change the description
[11:17] <ogra_> and since the liveCD is fixed ...
[11:18] <LaserJock> since you *can* use it on Ubuntu even
[11:18] <ogra_> hmm
[11:18] <LaserJock> we should check deps though, it might be that it could be fine
[11:18] <LaserJock> but it's just a .deb repo
[11:18] <ogra_> well, i'm pondering to let SCP die and pull italc in ...
[11:18] <ogra_> that would bring for example QT on the server CD
[11:19] <ogra_> (no KDE though)
[11:19] <ogra_> which then will be missing on the addon CD
[11:19] <ogra_> and not be available on xu or ubuntu
[11:20] <ogra_> might get users unexpected results ...
[11:20] <sbalneav> italc?
[11:20] <ogra_> so we shouldnt point them to try actually
[11:20] <ogra_> apt-cache show italc-master italc-client
[11:21] <ogra_> http://italc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/italc-1.0.0_01.jpg
[11:21] <ogra_> sbalneav, ^^^
[11:22] <ogra_> its looking a bit scary on first sight though
[11:22] <ogra_> http://italc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/italc-1.0.0_02.jpg
[11:22] <sbalneav> hm
[11:22] <LaserJock> well, it seems like quite a few people use it
[11:23] <ogra_> right
[11:23] <ogra_> but it doesnt go well with ldm connections yet
[11:23] <ogra_> that needs a hand
[11:23] <ogra_> and i'm not convince by the security model
[11:23] <LaserJock> it would be nice to be able to have like "we are officially going to make this our default, but here it is"
[11:23] <LaserJock> I guess that could be an edubuntu-universe package or something
[11:24] <ogra_> i played a lot with it when we visited the guadalinex driven school in sevilla
[11:24] <ogra_> and it was pretty easy to circumvent the client
[11:24] <ogra_> that will need some deep thought first
[11:24] <ogra_> i'll put it on the UDS agenda
[11:25] <sbalneav> Okiedoke
[11:25] <sbalneav> I'm heading home.
[11:25] <ogra_> as nice and small as SCP is, i dont have the time to constantly maintain it and since pete just dropped develpment without and word nobody picked it up
[11:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: just a sec
[11:26] <sbalneav> okay
[11:26] <LaserJock> sbalneav: I was going to ask if it was worth me uploading a new edubuntu-docs package today
[11:26] <ogra_> s/and/any/
[11:26] <sbalneav> Lets hold off on that.
[11:26] <ogra_> LaserJock, looks like we might skip tribe6
[11:27] <sbalneav> That way, I can post my mailing to the list, and get people using that.
[11:27] <ogra_> if so, there is no hurry
[11:27] <LaserJock> ogra_: how so?
[11:27] <sbalneav> ?
[11:27] <LaserJock> sbalneav: no problemo
[11:27] <ogra_> we asked for it ...
[11:27] <sbalneav> edubuntu will skip tribe 6, or Ubuntu in general will skip 6?
[11:27] <ogra_> LaserJock, i cant keep up with bugfixing if i build CDs all the time
[11:27] <ogra_> sbalneav, not clear yet
[11:28] <ogra_> but there was a meeting where the topic came up, will be a mail discussion soon
[11:28] <sbalneav> ok
[11:28] <ogra_> (on -devel i guess)
[11:28] <sbalneav> keep me posted.
[11:28] <LaserJock> hmm, so should I still send a Fix-it-Friday mail?
[11:28] <sbalneav> OK, heading out.
[11:28] <ogra_> i'm all for skipping :)
[11:28] <LaserJock> I think we should still do it
[11:28] <ogra_> yeah, in any case
[11:28] <sbalneav> be on later.
[11:28] <sbalneav> +1 for still having FIF


[00:00] <ScottL> tocha
[00:00] <ScottL> err gotcha
[00:01] <persia> But if you want to do new-package stuff rather than bugfix stuff post-feature-freeze, the best area would be to try to get any of our local apps that are suitable into Debian.
[00:01] <persia> (preferably into Debian Multimedia)
[00:03] <ScottL> i'm surprised there isn't more coordination between debian multimedia, ubuntu and 64 studio
[00:04] <persia> Well, it's complex.
[00:05] <persia> There's lots of scope for cooperation between us and Debian Multimedia, but we've generally been short developers, which means that we've focused mostly on ubuntu-specific issues and our metas and custom apps.
[00:06] <ScottL> i realize that 64 studio is currently based on the latest Ubuntu LTS version
[00:06] <persia> And Debian Multimedia mostly maintains the actual packages.
[00:06] <persia> As we get more developers (like you) and are getting more done, it makes sense to coordinate more closely with Debian Multimedia (as you've been doing).
[00:07] <persia> I always had the impression that 64 Studio was largely a custom OS shop for OEM installs.
[00:07] <persia> They provided a free distro for use, but charged for customisations.
[00:07] <ScottL> heh, am I considered a "ubuntu studio developer" now? ;P
[00:07] <persia> I know that some of the main developers at 64 Studio were heavily involved in Debian Multimedia.
[00:07] <persia> Um, I'm not sure.  You definitely do development work, and you're definitely involved with Ubuntu Studio.
[00:08] <persia> I don't happen to know the procedure to join the team on LP.
[00:08] <persia> Someone added me at one point because I patched some audio apps and triaged some bugs and agreed to hang out in this channel and test images once in a while.
[00:08] <persia> But I was already an Ubuntu Developer at that pont.
[00:08] <TheMuso> Joining the team on LP is done when one has proven themselves to create high quality patches for code we maintain in that team's code branches.
[00:09] <ScottL> luke beat me to it...
[00:09] <TheMuso> team's even
[00:09] <persia> TheMuso: Do we have a formal procedure?
[00:09] <TheMuso> persia: not afaik
[00:11] <ScottL> right now having access to push code is WAY too much responsibility...I need to learn metric tons of things before I would feel comfortable doing that
[00:11] <persia> Yep.
[00:11] <persia> That's why I'm not sure you're an "Ubuntu Studio Developer".
[00:11] <persia> But I am sure you're on the path towards becoming one.
[00:12] <persia> And you seem careful and responsible, if still learning the technical details.
[00:17] <ScottL> i hope to get there eventually but i'm having a blast learning and being as helpful as i can
[00:25] <ScottL> (sorry for the disjointed conversation, fixing dinner for the kids)
[00:25] <ScottL> but thank you for the kind words persia
[00:26] <ScottL> i only asked you about that because i was curious how people viewed me
[00:26] <persia> I can only speak for myself.
[00:26] <persia> No promises that my statements happen to match the views of anyone else
[00:28] <TheMuso> My thoughts are similar to persia.
[00:28] <ScottL> well, thank you both :)
[00:28] <TheMuso> Welcome.
[02:41] <ScottL> persia: what was the configure_overide setting for debhelper 7?
[02:42] <persia> override_dh_auto_configure:
[02:51] <ScottL> thanks
[14:41]  * abogani just read it: "Dear Alessio Bogani: Congratulations! On behalf of Novell Technical Training, it is a pleasure to grant you the title of Novell Certified Linux Administrator (Novell CLA) SUSE Linux Enterprise 11"
[14:43] <persia> Congratulations!
[14:44] <abogani> I wondering if it is useful at all.
[14:44] <abogani> I'm also LPI but evidently not enough.
[14:44] <abogani> persia: In any case thanks!
[14:46] <persia> I don't think certifications are useful at all.  For many years the highest certification I had was demonstration that I had completed 6 years of formal schooling.
[14:47] <persia> But I thik that if anyone tries for something that requires testing or confirmation of others, like a certification program, that they deserve congratulations for successfully reaching their goal.
[14:47] <abogani> persia: I agree with you.
[14:48] <abogani> But I don't university degree so I try to reduce the "formal" gap
[14:48] <abogani> s/don't/don't have
[14:48] <abogani> Seems with bad results anyway :-)
[14:49] <persia> Makes sense, but see above: my highest "degree" is usually granted to children of 12 years of age.
[14:50] <abogani> persia: ?
[14:50] <persia> The point being that it's often more valuable to be able to demonstrate what you can do than what documentation you have.
[14:51] <persia> But I think you agree with me already, or you'd have a university degree :)
[14:53] <abogani> persia: I agree obviously. Unfortunately seems to me that there are a lot of people don't think like us. :-(
[14:53] <persia> Unfortunately, indeed.
[15:03] <abogani> In my latest job interview: Mr.X: "Bogani, Do you have the basic knowledge for working on kernel?" Me: "I working with git every day, I work with some free software/opensource communities and I have made few commits in kernel (but better than nothing)." Obviously my concurrent don't know git at all, never interact with free communities and never make changes to kernel but he had a University degree and he wins. Obviously he could be bet
[15:03] <abogani> ter than me but in any case have "know how" evidently don't be enough. Perhaps Could I came back to my _real_ work (for which I have studied) ?
[15:05] <persia> Bother.  That's just poor hiring guidelines.
[15:05] <persia> If you spoke Japanese, I could probably get you something :)  But you'd have to move here, and I doubt it's worth it.
[15:07] <abogani> persia: I can't speak and write in _English_ so now way for me to speak Japanese! :-)
[15:07] <abogani> s/now/no
[15:07] <persia> heh :)
[16:58] <ScottL_> jussi01: ping
[17:03] <abogani> ScottL_: ping
[17:05] <abogani> ScottL: ping
[17:20] <ScottL_> abogani: yes?
[17:21] <abogani> ScottL_: Is English your native tongue?
[17:22] <ScottL_> yes, but I joke that I speak/write it poorly because it's my _first_ language
[17:22] <ScottL_> the joke being you don't do something well on your first attemp
[17:22] <ScottL_> attempt
[17:25]  * abogani don't understand well
[17:29] <ScottL_> yes, English is my native tongue
[17:29] <ScottL_> I seem to recall that you asked for help writing something in English, if so I would be happy to help
[17:34] <abogani> ScottL_: Sorry I'm a stupid. Almost always I don't understand something :)
[17:34] <abogani> ScottL_: In any case:
[17:34] <abogani> ScottL_: ScottL_: Replying to this email (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2010-February/002237.html) could you 1) remember that -lowlatency is now into Studio PPA and 2) ask to all people if there are some volunteers for compare -lowlatency with -preempt on an amd64 machine? Please mention in email that it is a very *great* help for me.
[17:34] <abogani> ScottL_: Thanks!
[17:36] <ScottL_> abogani: I hardly think that you are stupid.  Quite the contrary, if you can muck about with the kernel then you apparently have a quick intellect!  I certainly don't feel up to the task of developing a kernel variation
[17:36] <ScottL_> abogani: I shall try to reply to the email today (tomorrow at the latest)
[17:37] <ScottL_> oh, and I'm grateful to be of help
[17:38] <abogani> ScottL_: Thanks to you!
[17:38] <abogani> ScottL_: but believe in me you are overestimating me a lot.
[19:28] <abogani> Good news about kernel side: no serious problem exists running Lucid with kernel .31 (as -rt). Only a already know issue with plymouth.
[19:29] <persia> You have devtmpfs and everything already?
[19:29] <persia> Do we need updated alsa drivers?
[19:29] <persia> I know that the bluetooth stacks are compatible.
[19:31] <abogani> persia: "tgardner: you guys are just being paranoid. .31 works fine with Lucid"
[19:32] <abogani> persia: "tgardner: abogani, plymouth is a known issue. I've removed it for the time being. other then that things ought to "just work""
[21:20] <ScottL_> from what I've read the "real time" kernel is slightly a misnomer - apparently it means "deterministic" time rather than "instataneous" time
[21:21] <ScottL_> the theoritical goal is to have a predictible time (what ever it's latency is) compared to having the ultimately lowest latency
[21:21] <ScottL_> that is my understanding
[21:29] <ScottL_> jussi01: ping
[21:53] <ScottL_> persia:  i'm look at the REVU for lv2-c++-tools @ http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=7239
[21:53] <ScottL_> i can't edit the tags and the page is goofy because you can't access it directly
[21:54] <persia> Right.  Ignore that one (but I have it open, and will try to review)
[21:58] <ScottL_> persia: i also noticed celtx package but for karmic - should that be archived?
[21:58] <persia> Is it something we want?
[21:59] <ScottL_> yes it is
[21:59] <ScottL_> it would help round out the "multimedia" aspect of ubuntu studio
[22:02] <persia> Tag it.  Run a recent lintian and update it if you have a chance: just use dch to update the changelog so that appropriate credit is given.
[22:03] <ScottL_> i already tagged it
[22:17] <persia> Excellent.  I'll let you do a first-pass review, and I'll do a second pass after you upload.
[22:17] <persia> Might be worth a mail to the original packager to let them know you're jumping on it: there may be scope for collaboration.