[04:55] <Kilos> guten morgen you herren okes
[05:56] <Kilos> hi barrydk
[05:57] <barrydk> More almal
[06:00] <Kilos> sjoe 41 tabs open on my opera browseer
[07:10] <Jacques_Stry> Morning all
[07:10] <Kilos> hi Jacques_Stry
[07:14] <Kilos> its working yay
[07:16] <Kilos> chntpw is a powerful tool too
[07:20] <inetpro> Maaz: watch him
[07:20] <Maaz> I'll keep one eye on him for you inetpro
[07:20] <inetpro> becoming a real hacker this guy
[07:20] <inetpro> goeie more almal
[07:20] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[07:20] <Kilos> haha hiya inetpro  maz
[07:20] <Kilos> oh
[07:23] <Jacques_Stry> Kilos: You talking about the lappie?
[07:23] <Kilos> ya
[07:23] <Jacques_Stry> chntpw is awesome - saves me allot of time
[07:24] <Kilos> booted clean and 1.30 this morning
[07:24] <Kilos> s/and/at
[07:24] <Jacques_Stry> so working well after factory reset?
[07:28] <Kilos> didnt do factory reset, went in and killed admin password set by incredible connection i think and then went to repair pc, so lost nothing
[07:29] <Jacques_Stry> But I thought it BSOD on boot?
[07:31] <Kilos> must have looked like it to them because it was blue and very slow, but it actually got to where it says please wait  on booting then kept retrying that
[07:37] <Kilos> ive run chkdsk on it and used ccleanerto sort some of the mess now its quite fast
[07:37] <Kilos> for a 1.8g dual core that is
[07:37] <Jacques_Stry> Glad yo hear you got it fixed
[07:38] <Kilos> ty
[07:38] <Jacques_Stry> to*
[07:40] <Kilos> but they got no anti malware or proper firewall, think 7 is safe
[07:41] <Kilos> and she just smsed and asked is the modem inetrnal
[07:41] <Jacques_Stry> >.<
[07:41] <Kilos> vodacom dont work like that does it
[07:42] <Kilos> surely must be a 3g dongle somewhere there
[07:44] <Jacques_Stry> Well some laptops have internal 3g modems - if it does the SIM slot is usually where the battery is
[07:46] <Kilos> oh my tech is way ahead of me
[07:59] <ThatGraemeGuy> mornings
[08:04] <Kilos> hi ThatGraemeGuy
[08:23] <superfly> morning
[08:23] <Kilos> hi superfly
[08:26] <ThatGraemeGuy> hi fly
[08:57] <Kilos> hi magellanic
[08:57] <magellanic> greets
[08:58] <Mopkop> Hello.
[08:58] <Kilos> hi Mopkop
[08:58] <Mopkop> Broke my sound again :(
[08:58] <Kilos> oh my
[08:58] <Kilos> what do you do?
[08:59] <Mopkop> I think there is something wrong with Ubuntu sound. After I tell the sound to go over 100% (because it is too soft) it starts distorting, even if I put it back to normal.
[08:59] <Kilos> ai! yo0u gonna go deaf man
[09:00] <Kilos> too much input to the speakers amp
[09:00] <Mopkop> Lol, no, some programs have very soft sound by default. It's normal on windows. I use my earphones most of the time.
[09:01] <Kilos> hi arnaudmez
[09:01] <arnaudmez> hi Kilos
[09:01] <Mopkop> Fixed it :)
[09:02] <arnaudmez> how are things here ?
[09:02] <Mopkop> Hello arnaudmez!
[09:02] <Kilos> yay
[09:02] <Kilos> good ty and you arnaudmez
[09:02] <arnaudmez> Took time since yesterday to install Mint 17 rebecca
[09:02] <arnaudmez> found it lekker man
[09:03] <arnaudmez> I'm using it now on my laptop dedicated to company work
[09:03] <Kilos> nice
[09:03] <arnaudmez> the only thing bringing the struggle up is this outlook thing
[09:04] <arnaudmez> took a cup of wine and gave it to the distro but now it look like the system is a bit drunk
[09:04] <Kilos> lol
[09:05] <Mopkop> Haha.
[09:16] <arnaudmez> yeah, I want to prove my employer that *nux works better Oz
[09:16]  * Kilos needs to sleep some but tara and rugby wont allow
[09:17] <Kilos> whew arnaudmez  some peeps are hard to convince
[09:17] <arnaudmez> This one will be
[09:17] <Kilos> good man
[09:18] <ThatGraemeGuy> Oz?
[09:18] <arnaudmez> Yeah the software from Redmond
[09:21] <ThatGraemeGuy> I don't get it
[09:21] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy  hes a french speaking cameroonian
[09:22] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh ok
[09:30] <arnaudmez> Kilos: Congo not Cameroon
[09:30] <arnaudmez> ThatGraemeGuy: I mean Windows
[09:30] <Kilos> ya that as well arnaudmez  i dont remember where all you okes are from
[09:31] <Kilos> congo brazzaville
[09:31] <Kilos> not drc
[09:32] <Kilos> Jacques_Stry  do you want to join ##kilos
[09:32] <Kilos> so we dont talk windows here
[09:51] <arnaudmez> Kilos: cool
[09:57] <magellanic> ThatGraemeGuy: not sure if the bot made you aware of that g+ post?
[10:00] <Kilos> hi TinuvaMa_
[10:01] <Kilos> your c fell off
[10:02] <Kilos> i dont understand why they dont kick out. giving away possesion so why not give the team a chance to get up there with the lineout
[10:02] <Kilos> opps
[10:03] <Mopkop> Hello TinuvaMa!
[10:06] <Kilos> hi jrgns
[10:11] <ThatGraemeGuy> magellanic: i saw yes
[10:11] <jrgns> Hi Kilos
[10:12] <magellanic> cool thanks
[10:12] <magellanic> able to help? :p
[10:14] <ThatGraemeGuy> I'd say go with Hetzner but I'm a little biased in that regard :)
[10:15] <ThatGraemeGuy> "I tried Hetzner in Germany as they have a local branch here in SA but ended up cancelling the server in 4 hours as they couldn't organise a ssh login that worked."
[10:15] <ThatGraemeGuy> "branch" isn't really true, the 2 companies are pretty much separate
[10:15] <ThatGraemeGuy> Local SA hosting not an option because of poor service, load shedding and stunning failure of big name data centres to stay on when there is no power.
[10:16] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.hetzner.co.za/dedicated-servers/buyersguide/data-centres
[10:16] <ThatGraemeGuy> the new DC been running for a year and a half with no downtime
[10:17] <ThatGraemeGuy> and if you complain about local hosting companies' support being bad you have not dealt with our support team
[10:17] <magellanic> fair enough
[10:17] <magellanic> I'll paste that link on the post thanks
[10:20] <magellanic> do you guys have a page where you display downtime stats, current status etc?
[10:21] <ThatGraemeGuy> http://www.hetzner.co.za/helpcentre/index.php/network-notices/
[10:26] <magellanic> thanks for the help
[10:26] <magellanic> :-)
[10:27] <ThatGraemeGuy> np :)
[10:33] <arnaudmez> Someone knows how can I manage to setup a data recovery bench ?
[11:10] <Kilos> wbb. need modem
[11:48]  * Kilos came again back
[11:51] <Kilos> found malware called mindspark
[11:52] <Kilos> wb pieter2627
[11:52] <Kilos> why you got numbers after name, are there lots of pieters?
[11:54] <pieter2627> Hi, no. Just the name I use on most things - got it when I created my gmail account
[11:54] <inetpro> Kilos: his pincode as well
[11:54] <pieter2627> Ah no...  Kilos
[16:05] <Kilos> ya so i can see you
[16:07] <kulelu88> stuck on item definitions
[16:08] <Kilos> hmm...
[16:08] <Kilos> restart it
[16:09] <Kilos> go to /j #minetest-za
[16:10] <kulelu88> oom ek dink dit maak nie n difference nie. is net ons hier nou
[16:10] <Kilos> ja maar ander lees logs om te sien wat in die dag gebeur het
[16:11] <Kilos> daarom het hulle #minetest-za gemaak
[16:11] <kulelu88> im almost in
[16:12] <kulelu88> there me
[16:13] <Kilos> i cant stay there day is min
[16:13] <Kilos> i authed you
[16:13] <kulelu88> I still can't break things
[16:13] <kulelu88> Do i restart?
[16:16] <Kilos> you not supposed to break man
[16:17] <kulelu88> then?
[16:17] <kulelu88> I can't build also
[16:17] <kulelu88> i didn't break the homes
[16:17] <kulelu88> I went to break empty land
[16:18] <Kilos> go #minetest-za
[16:18] <Kilos> and come to me in the game
[16:54] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:10] <barrydk> Evening
[17:17] <Kilos> hi barrydk
[17:23] <kulelu88> hows these articles signalling the doom of SA. eskom, water, food
[17:51] <inetpro> good evening
[18:18] <inetpro> wb smile
[18:19] <smile> hi inetpro :D
[18:19] <smile> inetpro: you are in SA right?
[18:19] <inetpro> yep
[18:21] <inetpro> smile: why?
[18:21] <smile> I'm wondering if there is any activity regarding LTE/4G support in SA? :p
[18:22] <Kilos> hihismile
[18:22] <Kilos> lo pro
[18:22] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[18:22] <Kilos> ty inetpro
[18:22] <inetpro> smile: what do you mean with that?
[18:22] <Kilos> head control at the mo
[18:23] <Kilos> yes smile  we have both
[18:23]  * inetpro is on LTE on both Vodacom as well as Telkom
[18:23] <smile> nice ;) I didn't know 4G was supported in SA yet
[18:23] <Kilos> we arent always years behind
[18:24] <smile> lol
[18:24] <smile> 4G coverage is not so good here :p
[18:24] <Kilos> oh so we ahead
[18:24] <smile> it's just large cities for now :p
[18:24] <Kilos> i have 4g but no lte
[18:24] <smile> lte is 4g ;)
[18:24] <Kilos> no mine is slower
[18:25] <Kilos> in my nm it shoes 4g and 4g lte
[18:25] <Kilos> from this tower
[18:27] <Kilos> inetpro  dont talk too much man, build africa so i can go brag about my team members
[18:27] <Kilos> but when i talk to you it is good to answer
[18:28] <Kilos> smile  i need to get a router that can do lte
[18:28] <Kilos> the pros one is very fast
[18:28] <smile> :D
[18:28] <smile> you jealous? ;)
[18:29] <Kilos> but also looking at the new pi
[18:29] <Kilos> might be good to get one if i can make it work on a lappy screen
[18:29] <inetpro> smile: Coverage maps:
[18:29] <inetpro> http://www.telkom.co.za/coverage/#lte
[18:29] <inetpro> http://www.vodacom.co.za/vodacom/coverage-map
[18:30] <inetpro> unfortunately don't have the others
[18:30] <smile> Kilos: yeah, would be cool
[18:30] <inetpro> not sure whether they even offer proper LTE
[18:30] <smile> I still have the old Pi
[18:30] <smile> (pi b)
[18:30] <Kilos> ya they are actually quite cheap compared to pc stuff
[18:31] <Kilos> cheaper then 4g ddr3
[18:31] <smile> not a lot of purple yet, inetpro :p like here :)
[18:32] <smile> Kilos: you can buy an intel nuc too
[18:32] <inetpro> true
[18:34] <smile> I'm looking for a coverage map here :p
[18:36] <smile> a lot more than a year ago, wow :p http://support.en.proximus.be/app/answers/detail/a_id/14817/~/network-coverage-map
[18:36] <smile> proximus has the best
[18:36] <smile> 4G network
[18:37] <Kilos> smile  i can do upgrades at over 800kB/s so im happy
[18:37] <inetpro> smile: wow!
[18:38] <inetpro> that's good coverage!
[18:38] <inetpro> wb captine
[18:38] <smile> inetpro: yeah :D so you're behind after all ;)
[18:39] <captine> evening
[18:39] <Kilos> hi captine
[18:40] <captine> hi there
[18:40] <inetpro> Kilos: please send that link to the Vodacom CEO so they can wake up
[18:40] <inetpro> let him see how it should be done
[18:41] <inetpro> and the other networks for that matter
[18:41] <kulelu88> vodacoms new CEO is a cost-cutter, not an innovator
[18:42] <inetpro> ai!
[18:42] <Kilos> lol
[18:42] <Kilos> nono kulelu88  if you twitter them they fix things quick
[18:43] <Kilos> they dont like the world to see how bad they are
[18:44] <kulelu88> im trapped in Kilos house
[18:44] <kulelu88> how do I respawn?
[18:44] <Kilos> why trapped
[18:44] <kulelu88> Kilos: they can't fix innovation
[18:44] <kulelu88> im underground and cant get back up. Cant use the torch or lay bricks
[18:45] <Kilos> wait man i come see
[18:48] <kulelu88> im right below you
[18:48] <kulelu88> look down
[18:49] <Kilos> ya im coming
[18:50] <kulelu88> oh i died :(
[18:51] <smile> "Kilos: please send that link to the Vodacom CEO so they can wake up" good ;)
[18:52] <Kilos> lol
[18:52] <smile> their hardware sucks though ;)
[18:52] <smile> I used to have another router, but sadly that one had an ADSL modem built in that I could not disable
[18:59] <inetpro> smile: I get the impression that our mobile coverage here has stopped expanding long ago
[19:00] <inetpro> or at least not growing at a rate that anyone can notice
[19:00] <smile> that's not good
[19:02] <inetpro> it's bad to say this about your own country but I think most people here don't know what it means to deliver a service
[19:08] <Kilos> i agree
[19:09] <Kilos> but 8ta is good
[19:09] <smile> I'm happy you have 4G coverage :)
[19:10] <kulelu88> inetpro: most of the country is already covered on some level.
[19:10] <smile> I know you used to say you had to use 3G, Kilos
[19:10] <Kilos> ty, i dont know if its 4g but much faster than it used to be
[19:10] <smile> that's the point behind it, yes :D
[19:10] <Kilos> ya
[19:11] <Kilos> and very stable
[19:11] <Kilos> i dont part join all the time like some
[19:11] <kulelu88> no fun digging alone :D
[19:11] <kulelu88> and in the dark :D
[19:12] <Kilos> kulelu88  it eats 100m data an hour and im down to 40m a day to make month end
[19:12] <Kilos> set your graphics to be brighter
[19:13] <Kilos> you got nvidia?
[19:14] <smile> nvidia is best for Linux :)
[19:14] <kulelu88> 100MB an hour? whoa
[19:15] <Kilos> thats why we have basically stopped playing
[19:15] <Kilos> good for uncapped peeps though
[19:17] <kulelu88> aah. don't we know any gamers that will join the server? I think I may know a few
[19:19] <Kilos> best is first to play on single player till you got all the actions worked out then join a client
[19:19] <Kilos> it is boring but part of the learning curve
[19:20] <Kilos> like become a hotel manager, you start at the bottom washing floors
[19:21] <captine> what game we talking about?
[19:22] <Kilos> minetest
[19:22] <captine> mmm
[19:22] <captine> never heard of it
[19:22] <Kilos> very lekker game
[19:22] <Kilos> use tons of data for months to get things lekker
[19:22] <kulelu88> captine: join me tonight. we can build a house together <3
[19:23] <Kilos> get the latest minetest not the one in the repos
[19:23] <Kilos> very addictive game
[19:23] <inetpro> captine: don't do it
[19:23] <Kilos> lol
[19:23] <inetpro> it's addictive :-)
[19:24] <kulelu88> I had to leave before I burnt 3 hours. work awaits :(
[19:24] <inetpro> kulelu88: did you see the ship?
[19:24] <Kilos> if it wasnt for 3g costs we would have still been building
[19:25] <kulelu88> inetpro: noo :(
[19:25] <Kilos> ai!
[19:25] <kulelu88> you guys built some amazing things
[19:25] <kulelu88> we need 1 giant SA server, having people build a better SA :D
[19:26] <inetpro> kulelu88: look on the map at http://mt.donaldson.za.net/ and go check it out in the game
[19:26] <kulelu88> there's a map!!! I need to demarcate where everyones homes are
[19:26] <Kilos> kulelu88  you go to the travel pad and step on the dam port
[19:27] <captine> lol
[19:27] <captine> too tired
[19:27] <captine> cannot think of games.  falling asleep to youtube
[19:27] <Kilos> lol
[19:27] <Kilos> we spent months on that game
[19:28] <kulelu88> oom Kilos for that, I am going to steal all your tools
[19:31] <Kilos> lol
[19:32] <Kilos> al those in that tools chest you took the sign off is fine , they are there for everyone
[19:32] <Kilos> i think squirm took all the picks
[19:33] <kulelu88> i couldnt break some bricks
[19:33] <Kilos> as long as you keep repairing them they last forever
[19:34] <Kilos> thats why i got 3 worshops
[19:35] <kulelu88> I need to play with someone to see what they do
[19:35] <Kilos> i cant remember how we learned
[19:42] <kulelu88> together most likely
[19:44] <Kilos> somehwere in that minetest wiki might be a how to do things story
[19:45] <smile> good night! :)
[19:45] <Kilos> night smile  sleep tight
[19:45] <smile> thanks! :)
[19:45] <Kilos> hi Mopkop
[19:45] <smile> it was a nice chat ;)
[19:46] <Kilos> dont be so scarce smile
[19:46] <smile> I will come back tomorrow, if I don't forget :)
[19:46] <Kilos> lol
[20:43] <Mopkop> Oh, hello, sorry got busy...
[20:43] <Mopkop> Now getting sleepy...
[20:44] <Kilos> lol
[21:24] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[00:22] <tsimonq2> Hi there, it seems to be a while (September) since this bug was looked at - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1720219 - it would be good to have a fix, but it might just be cherry-picking commits, right?
[00:25] <tsimonq2> Specifically, it seems that these three commits fix the issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1720219/comments/46
[17:35] <apw> \
[17:35] <apw> jsalisbury, ^
[17:38] <TJ-> apw: is there any interest in providing realtime builds, posssibly just via the kernel-ppa ?
[17:41] <apw> TJ-, as in RT ?
[17:41] <apw> the RT patch set ?
[17:42] <TJ-> apw: indeed, from the mainline linux-stable-rt repo
[18:00] <apw> TJ-, i have no real use for them, but i also have nophilosphical objection to producing such a thing
[18:02] <TJ-> apw: do we have public access to the build tooling you use? I could work on it see if it's feasible. We do see people asking for -rt for studio-related tasks
[18:02] <TJ-> in theory it's a different pull URI plus a new package flavour -realtime
[22:47] <hallyn> apw: well, my xenial server has linux-image-hwe-generic-trusty and is at 4.4.109, no 4.4.112 is available as of yet.  not sure whether that constitutes mia, or just behind.


[03:33] <len-dt> LumpOfCoal, changing latency to about 11.5 ms seems to deal with xruns at fade out.
[03:55] <LumpOfCoal> i don't ever get xruns at fade out
[03:55] <LumpOfCoal> and my latency is usually much higer than that
[03:55] <LumpOfCoal> usually in the 30s
[03:56] <len-dt> That would be why.
[03:57] <len-dt> At low latency the mp3/ogg decode has to be faster too.
[03:58] <LumpOfCoal> i run both kernels depending on the os
[03:59] <LumpOfCoal> and i think my workflow may be a factor in that one as well
[03:59] <LumpOfCoal> in general, all the stuff i stream is already encoded at 128 cbr mp3
[03:59] <LumpOfCoal> vary rarely do i toss in anything outside of that
[04:00] <LumpOfCoal> i keep the wav, ogg etc in a seprate folder
[04:01] <LumpOfCoal> hang on a second
[04:01] <LumpOfCoal> i am going to try streaming some stuff not at 128 and see what happens
[04:03] <LumpOfCoal> and the latency is set at about 46 on jack atm
[04:04] <len-dt> Actually, idjc decodes all of it to audio and then recodes after mixing.
[04:08] <LumpOfCoal> "xruns since last start up" == 0
[04:08] <LumpOfCoal> i have a vbr in next
[04:09] <LumpOfCoal> and i am aware it decodes and recodes
[04:09] <LumpOfCoal> i just do em all the same cause i thought that would save me a cylce or two
[04:09] <LumpOfCoal> adn, by fade do you mean the fader or crossfading
[04:13] <LumpOfCoal> i still have a problem here though
[04:13] <LumpOfCoal> it is not detecting my line in
[04:13] <LumpOfCoal> no meter movement at all
[04:14] <len-dt> How are you doing "line in"?
[04:15] <LumpOfCoal> alsamixer
[04:15] <LumpOfCoal> then in connections capture to ch_in_1 and 2
[04:15] <LumpOfCoal> it shows on meter bridge
[04:18] <len-dt> So you then connect it to idjc how?
[04:20] <LumpOfCoal> from readable clients system capture to writeable idjc-mx_defaulr ch_in_1 and 2
[04:20] <LumpOfCoal> i have had the meter drop out before though
[04:21] <LumpOfCoal> and it does not always mean that it is not going over the stream
[04:23] <LumpOfCoal> it is the same way i have had it connected for years
[04:23] <LumpOfCoal> clueless here atm
[04:24] <LumpOfCoal> here comes the skipping again
[04:24] <len-dt> Not sure... not tracking so well right now... gotta work tomorrow... an hour early and maybe two late...
[04:24] <LumpOfCoal> no xruns
[04:24] <LumpOfCoal> no errors but the stream is skipping like hell
[04:25] <len-dt> Hmm.
[04:25] <LumpOfCoal> wait i have a thought
[04:27] <LumpOfCoal> nope
[04:27] <LumpOfCoal> the track was hot
[04:27] <LumpOfCoal> i thought gain control might have helped
[04:27] <LumpOfCoal> not the case
[04:28] <LumpOfCoal> i too am beat and not tracking well
[04:28] <LumpOfCoal> lets just pick this ball back up after the holiday
[04:28] <LumpOfCoal> i appreciate all your help
[04:29] <len-dt> Ya... no problem.
[04:29] <LumpOfCoal> could have been a bad track as well
[04:29] <LumpOfCoal> stopped as soon as the track ended
[04:29] <LumpOfCoal> but i have played that track before
[04:30] <LumpOfCoal> come to think of it, the track we were playing the other night when the issue started
[04:30] <LumpOfCoal> is now playing just fine
[04:30] <LumpOfCoal> and i am not monitoring the stream locally
[04:30] <LumpOfCoal> i am listening in on another machine just like an end user would
[04:31] <LumpOfCoal> i will pick your brain later mate
[04:32] <LumpOfCoal> have a great christmas
[04:33] <len-dt> You as well. now that the world has ended...
[04:34] <LumpOfCoal> lol
[04:34] <LumpOfCoal> i am off for a shower, might bbl
[10:08] <ttoine> hello
[10:08] <ttoine> Happy Holidays everybody !!
[10:46] <zequence> ttoine: Good Yule! I'm in Lausanne. 19C today :)
[10:55] <ttoine> in Switzerland !
[10:57] <ttoine> zequence, what do you mean by Yule ?
[11:01] <zequence> ttoine Yule is a germanic holiday which predates christianity. In Scandinavia, and Finland, the word is still used for this holiday
[11:02] <zequence> Yule is the English version of the word. Jul in Swedish. Joulu in Finnish
[11:02] <zequence> My sister lives in Lausanne. We're spending the holiday here this year
[11:04] <zequence> For holiday fun, I've installed Debian on a ibook3, powerpc. Am currently building an rt kernel for it (based on the debian rt sources)
[11:04] <zequence> Apparently wheezy/gnome3 is faster than OSX
[11:05] <ttoine> zequence, have fun, you geek ;-)
[11:05] <zequence> hehe


[11:22] <AskUbuntu> Ubuntu cloud maas configuration | http://askubuntu.com/q/315839
[19:59] <hazmat> if any maas dev are around we're trying to help/debug a user's issues (13.04) in #juju
[20:03] <hazmat> roaksoax, ping
[20:06] <roaksoax> hazmat: pong


[03:33] <catfacts> Ok what is I would be say in school at 1700 UTC
[03:34] <catfacts> are all the meetings at that time on a friday
[03:34] <catfacts> cuz ill never get to one
[11:14] <nysosym> Hi there
[07:24] <troy_s> http://blog.creativethink.com/heraclitus/index.html
[10:16] <mhb> hi artists
[10:43] <troy_s> mhb: What's up mhb?
[10:44] <mhb> I like the idea of a completely new artwork for Hardy
[10:45] <mhb> I wonder if you're all devoted to GNOME only, or whether you would like to help improve the KDE (Kubuntu) artwork, too
[10:46] <mhb> because we're lacking good graphic artists at Kubuntu (well, we have kwwii, but he's immensely busy, and we're a very community project, so we'd welcome some community artwork effort)
[10:47] <troy_s> I thought everyone was umpty happy in Kubuntu land.
[10:48] <mhb> heh, I wish.
[10:48] <mhb> Kubuntu has got only its wallpaper slightly changed for Gutsy - we'd like something radical for Hardy, too.
[10:49] <mhb> non-wallpaper mockups (window decoration, panel background, colour profile) very welcome
[10:53] <mhb> I've seen some nice mockups for Ubuntu/GNOME, so I thought perhaps a community-friendly artist could do one or two for KDE, too :o)
[11:14] <nothlit> i don't see the point of trying to run off and go create a seperate concept for kubuntu, itd be interesting to bring it all into line
[11:15] <mhb> nothlit: well you're not the first who would like to push brown into kubuntu but that won't happen
[11:16] <mhb> nothlit: the unique look of KDE is what makes it special/interesting for users
[11:17] <lassegul> Hello everybody. Im back from 2 days of hell.
[11:18] <nothlit> mhb: i never said push brown into anything
[11:19] <mhb> nothlit: you said "bring it all into line", which I interpreted as using unified guidelines for both, of which colour set is an important part
[11:20] <nothlit> i don't see the point of creating a whole new concept for the same distro though, its more important to unify, they're both ubuntu, if it was kde that was favoured i'd say the same
[11:20] <mhb> nothlit: if I misunderstood your point, please do correct me
[11:22] <mhb> nothlit: well, kubuntu and ubuntu are separate in many ways
[11:22] <mhb> nothlit: not only the amount of cash flown into GNOME
[11:23] <nothlit> mhb: basically the point is if your going to grab for artists you're basically going to get swishyness, unifying doesn't necessarily mean a mirror image
[11:23] <nothlit> or does kubuntu just want the gloss look?
[11:24] <mhb> well it certainly doesn't need angry arguments
[11:24] <nothlit> ... huh?
[11:25] <mhb> well you sound a bit agitated :o) it's just that ubuntu and kubuntu has taken a different path than say opensuse
[11:26] <mhb> we're not one opensuse with two environments that look more or less the same ... we are brothers, but not twins
[11:27] <nothlit> i realise that, but i'm not saying they need to share the same wallpaper or try to have exactly the same look, but do you really believe that kubuntu is distinct enough to create and promote an identity wholly on its own?
[11:28] <mhb> and "unifying looks" usually means "copy over from A to B"
[11:28] <nothlit> if you want to ask for stellar artwork, imho it'd be easier to run with a solid <concept> for everything, otherwise at least one of the *buntu is going to be left behind
[11:29] <mhb> well, kubuntu doesn't resemble Ubuntu/GNOME today at all, and we'd like to keep that, yes
[11:30] <mhb> believe me, any such unifying efforts usually tend to drop one DE in the end
[11:30] <mhb> "it looks the same now, why are we maintaining them both again?" attitude
[11:31] <mhb> the truth is, the Kubuntu artwork is quite inconsistent because we lack a concept
[11:31] <mhb> and without graphic artist community we can do little about that
[11:32] <mhb> we'd like to show that we're proud of being KDE and of being Ubuntu.
[11:32] <mhb> any unification effort would hinder one or the other.
[11:35] <troy_s> mhb... hem
[11:36] <mhb> troy_s: a supporter of consistency?
[11:37] <troy_s> mhb: I am a huge supporter of audience and goal.  Internal consistency...
[11:37] <nothlit> thats fine, but i'm of the belief that trying to completely seperate yourself will dilute and confuse both the ubuntu brand and the power that kubuntu draws from it (i'm definitely not saying kubuntu should just be absorbed, i've defended the kubuntu/xubuntu naming a few times)
[11:37] <troy_s> mhb: I suppose that if the designer realm actually had some experience it would be nice to different twists on a motif.
[11:38] <troy_s> mhb: In the end however, it is irrelevant -- what should be important in my eyes would be for each distribution to have a strong presence.  Something they currently do not have (for various reasons)
[11:38] <nothlit> thats what i'd wish for ^, not a complete seperation or mimicry
[11:39] <nothlit> same as kubuntu is not entirely on its own or entirely the same
[11:39] <troy_s> mhb: The bigger question would be if the 'core' of K would agree on a concept.  That would be a very difficult thing to achieve I would think.
[11:39] <troy_s> (by the way, serious +1 on wanting to break out of the bleak landscape of uber-conservativism)
[11:42] <mhb> troy_s: I think the "KDE" in us is more visible in the technical side of things, like the layout of the Kicker panel ... and the use of the colour blue, which we cannot really give up
[11:43] <nothlit> you can keep your colour blue or whatever, doesn't mean you can't run with a take on the same concept
[11:44] <troy_s> mhb yes -- very strange that.
[11:44] <troy_s> mhb: In an ideal world, what would the KDE folks cite as 'perfection' of execution?
[11:46] <mhb> nothlit: right, "sharing a concept" is not a bad idea in itself, although I am a bit sceptical about it until the concepts in question are made clear
[11:47] <mhb> troy_s: I am afraid I don't understand the question well
[11:50] <mhb> nothlit: also note that you need an artist to build upon a concept and create artwork we can integrate - if you gave us concepts and said "build upon it" we wouldn't produce anything useful
[11:51] <troy_s> mhb: I guess what I am asking is there some 'ideal' that someone has seen or thinks was excellent work?
[11:53] <nothlit> mhb: i'll think about a way to gently put on the wiki pages that kubuntu is interested and looking btw
[11:54] <troy_s> greets tonic-pushcart
[11:55] <tonic-pushcart> morning
[11:55] <tonic-pushcart> have headache :(
[11:55] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: did you get joejaxx bug report about the usplash landing in the upper corner for someone?
[11:55] <troy_s> joejaxx: I suppose it should technically be filed as a bug against the usplash bzr repo.
[11:55] <mhb> troy_s: well, when it comes to artwork, the KDE way has never had a specific vision ... but when it comes to users, http://www.nuno-icons.com/images/estilo/image247.png seem to be appealing to many
[11:56] <mhb> but it's the usual "glass&gloss" metaphor
[11:56] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: yeah I did. It is either a problem with the video card deciding to not center the image or with usplash
[11:56] <troy_s> mhb: Hrm... not much there to go on unfortunately.  I would think that just about anyone should be able to 'clone' an abstract sort of approach though -- or are you specifically referring to the outlines.
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Ok good.  At least you were touched on it.
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I have to design the full animation for the usplash for myth
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Which is more or less as we discussed, but the animation itself will probably be a lesson in nodal editing / compositing in Blender.
[11:57] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: okay   how much time do we have on that?
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I will keep all of the elements in raw format as much as we can.
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Plenty.
[11:57] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I would like to deliver the full package before Hardy
[11:57] <mhb> thanks for the discussion folks, good luck with Hardy artwork, I will be monitoring your efforts :o)
[11:58] <mhb> I have to go now
[11:58] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: I have exams at the moment   two this week   but next week is free
[11:58] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: But it seems that
[11:58] <troy_s> mhb: Ciao my friend.
[11:58] <tonic-pushcart> ...
[11:58] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: superm1 and foxbuntu have agreed that none of the fresh look will land in gutsy (which I was pretty clear about going into it.)
[11:58] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: So there is plenty of time.
[11:58] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: And again, most of us are full time 'other' types
[11:59] <troy_s> which means that it moves at the pace dictated by the other things.
[11:59] <troy_s> ;)
[11:59] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: yeah
[11:59] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: oh hey could you look at something for me
[11:59] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Most certainly.
[12:00] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Yikes... you have found one of my weak spots -- I am a gaming slut.
[12:00] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: I have about 400 games in my collection.
[12:14] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: 400 boardgames?
[12:16] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: About that.
[12:16] <nothlit> LOL
[12:16] <troy_s> although I have started a nasty trend of buying expensive ones and not opening them
[12:16] <nothlit> oh wait, they're serioualy board games?
[12:16] <nothlit> i didn't know there were so many
[12:16] <troy_s> board games and roleplaying games.
[12:16] <troy_s> some of the art (timbradstreets stuff) was very influential early going for me in some aspects.
[12:17] <troy_s> and the design of a solid game is an exercise in brilliant design.
[12:18] <troy_s> nothlit: That artist is bloody brilliant.
[12:19] <nothlit> i'm only on about # 340 of his 1000 self portraits
[12:19] <tonic-pushcart> I agree with that. Boardgame design is hard   you have so many restrictions on what you can do   and you have to account for the social aspect of the game.
[12:20] <nothlit> he does the conceptart for the metroid games
[12:20] <tonic-pushcart> for example   with manufacturing you are limited in the number of bits you can have
[12:21] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: And of course the Kniza's out there are mind blowing.
[12:21] <tonic-pushcart> mechanics have to be simple. There is no computer...
[12:21] <nothlit> troy_s: yeah D&G, forgotten realms concept art is brilliant, i wish that sort of book was available in chapters
[12:21] <tonic-pushcart> troy_s: I pretty much exclusively play Euro style games
[12:21] <troy_s> Yes.  Simple and yet allow for an impressive building of complexity of depth.  Carcassone for example.
[12:21] <troy_s> Chess even.
[12:22] <tonic-pushcart> and in my opinion 'Tigris and Euphrates' is the epitome of the boardgame
[12:22] <tonic-pushcart> Gameplay is soo tight on that board
[12:22] <troy_s> nothlit: Brilliant stuff.  Tim Bradstreet defined the look for a bunch of years in White Wolf's stuff.
[12:22] <troy_s> Tigris is soooo +1
[12:23] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Kniza's stuff is all killer.
[12:23] <troy_s> tonic-pushcart: Modern Art is another pretty amazing game.  Hell... his Lord of the Rings game is brilliant.
[12:25] <tonic-pushcart> :)


[16:13] <lll7> good morning again :c
[17:03] <lll7> I DID IT
[17:32] <chras> lll7: worked as intended?
[17:33] <lll7> chras: YESYESYES
[17:34] <chras> great
[17:34] <lll7> i make out that it was beautiful


[07:54] <freelove> is ogra here?
[07:54] <freelove> hi riddell:)
[09:41] <viviersf> Riddell : ping
[09:42] <janimo> the kubuntu dapper roadmap spec mentions gnome-system-tools being used by kde network settings
[09:42] <janimo> is that still valid?
[09:47] <viviersf> i hope not
[09:47] <viviersf> it bloats the menus
[09:47] <viviersf> by putting duplicate tools in the menus
[09:47] <janimo> maybe system-tools-backend was meant then?
[09:48] <viviersf> i spoke to riddell in montreal
[09:48] <viviersf> thing is knetworkconf isnt working 100%
[09:48] <viviersf> thats prolly why
[09:49] <viviersf> all we want from gnome-system-tools is the network config
[09:49] <janimo> it would be nice to use the same backend as gnome, as that is not supposed to have gnome deps AFAIK
[09:49] <janimo> so will you use that for dapper? for network that is
[09:50] <viviersf> i dont know
[09:50] <viviersf> will speak to ridell
[09:50] <viviersf> or
[09:50] <viviersf> us from impi
[09:50] <viviersf> will prolly get some1 to make a proper kde one
[09:50] <viviersf> but im not sure at the point
[09:50] <janimo> ok thanks
[09:54] <viviersf> why doesnt ksplashrc get copied on a new user
[09:55] <viviersf> is what im wonering at this point
[12:07] <mornfall> Riddell: ping?
[12:17] <Riddell> mornfall: hi
[12:21] <mornfall> Riddell: hello
[12:22] <mornfall> Riddell: i've added some stuff to the wiki, but it seems to be offline atm?
[12:23] <mornfall> Riddell: oh wait... ssl not working again :'/
[12:31] <mornfall> Riddell: okey, i can get there again, with some hoops
[12:31] <mornfall> Riddell: any suggestions what should be changed?
[01:52] <Riddell> seth_k|away: krusader fails to build
[01:57] <Diablo-D3> heh
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> mornfall: cool I guess
[01:58] <mornfall> Diablo-D3: relating to? wiki?
[01:58] <Diablo-D3> * mornfall points out http://people.freedesktop.org/~mornfall/adept-tags.png
[01:59] <mornfall> Diablo-D3: ah
[02:14] <seth_k|away> Riddell, um... that was why I uploaded it :P so you could look at it, remember?
[02:14] <seth_k|away> that's even what the REVU note says
[02:15] <seth_k|away> Riddell, it fails asking for a file that doesn't even exist
[02:15] <seth_k|away> anywhere in the source tree
[02:15] <seth_k|away> and it's not in a clean source tree downloaded from krusader themselves, I checked.
[02:30] <viviersf> Riddell : ping
[02:58] <Riddell> viviersf: hi
[02:58] <Riddell> seth_k|away: oh yes :)
[03:02] <viviersf> Riddell, i got a little problem
[03:02] <Riddell> viviersf: what's that?
[03:02] <viviersf> i have a ksplashrc in the impi-default-settings folder
[03:02] <viviersf> why wouldnt it get copied to a users home dir
[03:02] <viviersf> on 1st login like the rest of the files ?
[03:04] <Riddell> viviersf: why should it?
[03:04] <Riddell> where is impi-default-settings folder?
[03:04] <viviersf> /usr/share/impi-default-settings
[03:05] <viviersf> Riddell, cos i want the kde splash screen to load
[03:05] <viviersf> and not the kde one
[03:06] <Riddell> viviersf: have you edited kderc?
[03:07] <viviersf> yes
[03:07] <Riddell> viviersf: what does it say?
[03:07] <viviersf> it loads the rest of the impi-default-settings
[03:07] <viviersf> just not ksplashrc
[03:07] <viviersf> hold
[03:07] <viviersf> [Directories]
[03:07] <viviersf> userProfileMapFile=/etc/kde-user-profile
[03:07] <viviersf> [Directories-default]
[03:07] <viviersf> prefixes=/usr/share/impi-default-settings/kde-profile/default/
[03:07] <Riddell> do you have an impi-default-settings package or something I could try?
[03:09] <viviersf> i can zip the folder
[03:10] <viviersf> and mail it to you ?
[03:10] <Riddell> ok
[03:10] <viviersf> cos i havnt got round to making a package yet
[03:11] <viviersf> whats your addy again ?
[03:11] <Riddell><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:11] <Riddell> or put it on a web server somewhere
[03:13] <viviersf> you got mail
[03:20] <Riddell> viviersf: do you have a /usr/share/apps/ksplash/Themes/Impi/* ?
[04:07] <mornfall> Riddell: it *seems* i have a working status notifier
[04:07] <mornfall> Riddell: update notifier that is
[04:13] <mornfall> Riddell: confirmed ;-)
[04:31] <Riddell> mornfall: you rock
[04:48] <Riddell> mornfall: although not without your critics :)  http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20892
[04:54] <jjesse> wow somone is pissed :)
[04:56] <seth_k> haha wow
[04:56] <seth_k> that guy is way too into it
[05:48] <raphink> woo
[05:56] <Riddell> aah, I assumed he'd compiled a .deb from source, but reading it again probably not
[06:00] <\sh> Riddell: I hope this works now with pykde
[06:13] <\sh> Riddell: the default firefox page which I forgot to symlinking..it's /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/khelpcenter/kubuntu/about-kubuntu/C/index.html?
[06:21] <Riddell> \sh: yes
[06:21] <\sh> Riddell: thx :)
[06:21] <\sh> fixing it now
[07:18] <Tm_T> has someone had succesful adept install in dapper lately?
[07:22] <Riddell> hmm, debtags broken
[07:23] <jjesse> Tm_T: i have an up to date dapper build
[07:23] <jjesse> do you wnat me to test something?
[07:23] <mornfall> Riddell: back
[07:23] <mornfall> Riddell: check debian-release for debtags breakage
[07:24] <jpetso> hi
[07:24] <jpetso> my KDevelop (Breezy) shows only "Custom" in the new project assistant's license selection
[07:25] <jpetso> any idea where the GPL, LGPL and whatever have gone?
[07:25] <mornfall> Riddell: what about the spec...
[07:26] <Riddell> mornfall: it's been passed back to mdz, hopefully he'll let us know if that's what he's after or not
[07:26] <Riddell> jpetso: you reported the bug earlier today?  I haven't had a chance to investigate yet
[07:27] <jpetso> Riddell: I didn't report any bug, must've been someone else
[07:27] <Riddell> jpetso: ok, so you're not alone then :)
[07:28] <jpetso> Riddell: thanks, at least I know it's being worked on and not solved at the time, that means I can get back to work ;-)
[07:29] <jpetso> mornfall: I believe you should use standard KDE icons in Adept instead of your homegrown (or copied) ones
[07:29] <mornfall> jpetso: that's nice belief, now go and find me some that are at least remotely usable
[07:29] <insanekane> i have the same bug with kdevelop ... though not dapper (breezy)
[07:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: aye
[07:31] <Tm_T> Riddell: any news when it might be fixed?
[07:32] <Tm_T> cat food, best I can get ->
[07:33] <jpetso> mornfall: does the development version of Adept have the same actions as the Breezy one?
[07:35] <jpetso> mornfall: for the toolbar actions: actions/reload, actions/button_ok, actions/top, and actions/viewmag+
[07:35] <jpetso> mornfall: for Safe Upgrade: actions/up
[07:35] <jpetso> anything left?
[07:35] <mornfall> jpetso: actions/top is ugly as sin
[07:36] <jpetso> mornfall: that should be a question of the icon set, no?
[07:36] <mornfall> jpetso: by default (= crystal)
[07:36] <jpetso> mornfall: grrr
[07:36] <jpetso> mornfall: ok, then I'll wait for Oxygen
[07:36] <mornfall> jpetso: what about the extended/collapsed lister items?
[07:37] <jpetso> mornfall: these are ok with me, I don't remember any similar icons in the standard set
[07:37] <mornfall> jpetso: there are, ugly, again
[07:37] <mornfall> i just pick icons from nuvola
[07:37] <jpetso> mornfall: I know
[07:37] <mornfall> they at least go together
[07:38] <mornfall> and well, it's not like hard to drop in icons you want
[07:38] <mornfall> they are named adept_*
[07:38] <mornfall> apart from the extender ones
[07:40] <jpetso> mornfall: I don't need prettier icons (Nuvola is great), I just would've liked to have my Lila icons applied without copying all those again
[07:40] <jpetso> mornfall: but oh well, no big problem
[07:40] <mornfall> good, so let's keep status quo
[07:41] <jpetso> mornfall: but you promise me with Oxygen you'll switch to the standard ones
[07:41] <mornfall> jpetso: never
[07:41] <jpetso> mornfall: ;-)
[07:41] <mornfall> jpetso: (promise)
[07:41] <mornfall> jpetso: i may switch, but i suspect it's not going to be any good
[07:41] <jpetso> mornfall: expect an unthemed Adept with everything except Crystal
[07:42] <jpetso> mornfall: I mean, everything except Nuvola
[07:42] <mornfall> it's not like i cared
[07:42] <jpetso> mornfall: ah well, developers ;-)
[07:43] <jpetso> mornfall: pink moon's gonna get ye all
[07:43] <mornfall> pink moon ha?
[07:44] <jpetso> mornfall, Riddell: bye, and by the way, Kubuntu is great, keep on rocking
[07:44] <mornfall> that was insanekane
[07:44] <mornfall> insanekane: how did it go?
[07:46] <insanekane> mornfall: how did what go ?
[07:47] <mornfall> insanekane: your update notifier
[07:47] <insanekane> mornfall: didnt try
[07:47] <mornfall> insanekane: bah :)
[07:47] <insanekane> mornfall: :)
[07:47] <insanekane> mornfall: are you done with yours ?
[07:47] <mornfall> insanekane: it sits in my systray showing an exclamation mark ;-)
[07:48] <insanekane> mornfall: fantastic :) when do we get to see/use it ? :)
[07:48] <mornfall> insanekane: with the alpha, i guess... hopefully this week
[07:48] <insanekane> mornfall: cool :) good show :)
[07:49] <mornfall> insanekane: i'll add number of upgradable packages to the tooltip and make Quit work :D
[07:49] <mornfall> oh
[07:49] <mornfall> quit works
[07:49] <mornfall> interesting =)
[07:50] <mornfall> i can't recall fixing it ;-)
[07:50] <mornfall> oh no it doesn't, it just *almost* works :-)
[07:52] <mornfall> cool, fixed
[07:53] <insanekane> hehe :)
[07:54] <insanekane> mornfall: maybe even download a special XML file which provides teasers of what you get when you upgrade ? :)
[07:54] <insanekane> (and show them in the tooltip of course)
[07:54] <mornfall> yeah sure, but i don't think canonical has enough money to have me implement *that* :-)
[07:55] <mornfall> oh, okey, they probably do, they just won't ever invest it like that
[07:55] <insanekane> mornfall: just a suggestion :)
[07:58] <insanekane> mornfall and all, gnite and keep up the great work! :)
[08:37] <\sh> Riddell: in panel configuration..to disable the toasters from the taskbar..there is a usability problem...
[08:37] <\sh> Riddell: to disable the toaster you have to uncheck the "Enable MouseOver effects" checkbox ... but this is somehow a very strange naming
[08:38] <Riddell> toasters?
[08:38] <Riddell> tooltips?
[09:04] <\sh> Riddell: kde taskbar....mouse over effects...the rounded box which tells you the name the icon etc.
[09:09] <Riddell> what's strange about the naming?
[09:11] <\sh> it's wrong
[09:12] <\sh> i'll write something later...sitting at amus place right now :)
[09:17] <Riddell> give him a hug from me
[09:17] <Tm_T> ...no, that wasn't what you meant
[09:17] <amu> ehe
[09:18] <Tm_T> well, I take that back
[09:19] <Tm_T> should make presentation about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_tablet <-devices to tomorrow
[09:51] <Tonio_> hi
[09:52] <Riddell> hi Tonio_
[09:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: back to work
[09:52] <\sh> Riddell: python-kde3 is uploaded should be installable in 1h
[09:52] <Tonio_> problems seem to be resolved
[09:52] <Riddell> \sh: woo!
[09:52] <Tonio_> Riddell: I'm correting all packages today, and send all patches to upstreams.
[09:53] <Tonio_> \sh: hi
[09:53] <Riddell> Tonio_: woo!
[09:53] <Tonio_> ;)
[09:54] <\sh> Riddell: it takes a long time to compile this b*tch on an amd64 1.6 GHz
[09:54] <Tonio_> I will just have to leave paris and my job..... that's the nice trick
[09:56] <Riddell> Tonio_: dare I ask why?
[09:56] <Tonio_> yep
[09:56] <Tonio_> in fact my girlfriend and I live separated for 3 years
[09:56] <Tonio_> because of her studies
[09:57] <Tonio_> she's just ended and is now confirmed as a teacher
[09:57] <Tonio_> problem is she has to stay there for 3 years at least
[09:57] <Tonio_> and she was in the bad because she doesn't fill able to wait 2 more years
[09:57] <Tonio_> that's the reason she was about to break our relationship
[09:57] <Tonio_> so we discussed a lot
[09:58] <Tonio_> and I must say I can understand her
[09:58] <Tonio_> 3 years is already so much....
[09:58] <Tonio_> so I will have to rejoin her, because she cannot technically
[09:58] <Tonio_> that means living everything :/
[09:58] <Tonio_> the good point is that we are still toogether so....
[09:59] <Tonio_> I don't blame her, but that's the reason of my three weeks silence
[09:59] <Tonio_> that's not simple decission to take, I had to stop everything and take the time to decide what to do
[10:00] <Tonio_> living my flat, job and city, or loosing my future wife...
[10:00] <Riddell> where are you both going?
[10:01] <Tonio_> I'm going in Orleans
[10:01] <Tonio_> very nice city
[10:01] <Tonio_> the problem is that I have to find a good job there before
[10:01] <Tonio_> I have a few month to organize myself
[10:01] <Riddell> where is that?
[10:02] <Riddell> not the hurricane one?
[10:02] <Tonio_> she didn't give me any pressure, except that she couldn't wait infinitly
[10:02] <Tonio_> it is about 200 km from paris
[10:02] <Tonio_> in the south
[10:03] <Tonio_> in fact the city "new orleans" takes its name from the french city Orlans
[10:03] <Tonio_> the city founders where french people from Orlans
[10:03] <Tonio_> that's the trick :)
[10:03] <Riddell> clever
[10:04] <Tonio_> so it was hard to dicide, but now i'm okay ;)
[10:04] <Tonio_> anyway, I have many packages to correct and patches to email so...... go !
[10:05] <Riddell> on y va!
[10:05] <Tonio_> Riddell: just uploaded prozilla
[10:05] <Tonio_> not a kubuntu app, but very usefull in some cases
[10:06] <mornfall> Riddell: hmmmmmm
[10:07] <mornfall> Riddell: i have gettextized libapt-front
[10:07] <mornfall> Riddell: so what's next
[10:08] <Riddell> mornfall: see KubuntuPackagingGuide for changing the package to allow for .pot generation
[10:08] <Riddell> although I guess libapt-front will be different being non-KDE
[10:08] <Riddell> but rosetta will suck out the .pot file if it gets created and people will be able to translate it
[10:09] <Riddell> then ubuntu will include the translations in it's language-packs and you can suck back the .po files for inclusion upstream
[10:09] <mornfall> Riddell: no problem creating pot file
[10:09] <Tonio_> Riddell: I've just found what appears to be a bug, but I don't know if it is a kde bug or a OOo2 one....
[10:09] <Tonio_> can you give me your advice on that point ?
[10:10] <Tonio_> before reporting :)
[10:10] <mornfall> Riddell: i suppose i'll just content myself with generating .pot for now and i'll get it working when there's some testing po file
[10:12] <Riddell> Tonio_: ok
[10:13] <Tonio_> Riddell: open konq and browse this : system:/home
[10:14] <Tonio_> then open an OOo file
[10:14] <Tonio_> it doesn't open
[10:14] <Riddell> yeah, the .desktop files need chaning or something
[10:14] <Tonio_> with /home/bla it works
[10:14] <Riddell> I'm not sure if that's KDE's fault or openoffice's
[10:14] <Tonio_> Riddell: that's my question
[10:14] <Tonio_> I've searched and all other files work correctly
[10:14] <Tonio_> so I assume a problem with OOo maybe....
[10:15] <allee> Tonio_: does media:/... work?
[10:15] <Tonio_> with OOo fioles ?
[10:15] <Tonio_> good question ;)
[10:15] <Tonio_> hi allee  :)
[10:15] <allee> Tonio_: I assume the desktop file uses %u and KDE passes system:/...
[10:15] <mornfall> 'lo
[10:16] <allee> Tonio_: ah, sorry, forgot.  welcome back
[10:16] <Tonio_> ;)
[10:16] <Tonio_> allee: same problem with media:/
[10:17] <allee> change %u to %f
[10:17] <Tonio_> let me try
[10:18] <Tonio_> allee: works !
[10:18] <allee> Tonio_: good
[10:18] <Tonio_> allee: you're impressive, really....
[10:19] <Tonio_> so there is certainly a little patch to provide
[10:19] <allee> Tonio_: rule only answer when your quite sure that the problem is ;)
[10:19] <Tonio_> ^_^
[10:26] <allee> Tonio_: hmm, there is a side effect.  For non file: URL KDE makes a temp. copy and passes this for the app.
[10:26] <allee> Tonio_: can you check that KDE is intelligent enough to not copy to temp file if system: or media: url is passed?
[10:27] <allee> Tonio_: ps x should show the command line
[10:27] <Tonio_> allee: I will have a look yep
[10:27] <Tonio_> to be sure to understand correctly what happens
[10:55] <Tonio_> allee: are you there ?
[10:55] <Tonio_> I have a little question ;)
[10:55] <allee> yeap
[10:55] <Tonio_> k
[10:55] <Tonio_> I was told it was better installing correctly the .desktop file by a patch instead of a debian rule
[10:55] <Tonio_> so I wanna patch
[10:56] <Tonio_> problem is that the directory is defined by a variable in a variable etc....
[10:56] <Tonio_> I have about 10 files to patch....
[10:56] <Tonio_> would you add the directory directly in the makefile.in ?
[10:57] <Tonio_> or patch every file using those variables ?
[10:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: patch the Makefile.#am
[10:57] <Riddell> Tonio_: patch the Makefile.am
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: no need to patch makefile.in ?
[10:58] <Riddell> crivvens no
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: dunno, I'm not a developper ;)
[10:58] <Riddell> patch Makefile.am make -f Makefilem.cvs
[10:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: here is the problem :
[10:58] <Tonio_> shelldesktopdir = $(kde_appsdir)/Utilities
[10:58] <Tonio_> the variable is defined in the configure
[10:58] <Tonio_> and used about everywhere
[10:59] <Tonio_> so would you add the directory directly ?
[10:59] <Tonio_> shelldesktopdir = /usr/share/applications/kde
[10:59] <Tonio_> like this ?
[10:59] <allee> Tonio_: in this case just move in desktop file in rules
[11:00] <Tonio_> okay
[11:00] <Tonio_> and of course send an email to the upstream author
[11:00] <allee> Tonio_: 1) the real fix is to: check desktop that GenericName, Categories is there
[11:00] <Riddell> Tonio_: you want xdg_apps_DATA = foo.desktop
[11:00] <Riddell> in Makefile.am
[11:00] <allee> Tonio_: 2) send this patch to upstream
[11:01] <Riddell> and make sure foo.desktop includes the Categories= line
[11:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: already added by a patch, I always add Categories
[11:02] <allee> Tonio_: 3) tell upstream to use xdg_apps_DATA = <whatever>.desktop in Makefile.am
[11:02] <Tonio_> k
[11:02] <Riddell> Tonio_: well you only need categories if you're installing it as an XDG menu file :)
[11:03] <Tonio_> Riddell: new that, but I didn't knew what motus are waiting for, I mean patched sources or simply cdbs rule + email to upstream
[11:03] <Tonio_> I'll do the second way
[11:03] <Riddell> Tonio_: either is fine, second way is better since then you can give the exact patch to upstream that they should use
[11:04] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay


[07:52] <crevette> hello
[08:14] <dholbach> good morning
[08:26] <crevette> salut dholbach
[08:27] <dholbach> hiya crevette
[08:31] <crevette> hello
[08:32] <crevette> who should I ping to have gnome-phone-manager updated and gnokii as well, it would fix some bugs
[08:32] <crevette> I assume I have to ask a FFE ?
[08:33] <Hobbsee> yes.
[08:33] <crevette> for ref it would fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-phone-manager/+bug/181909
[08:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181909 in gnome-phone-manager "SonyEricsson phones can't send SMS" [Undecided,New]
[08:33] <crevette> at least
[09:36] <crevette> heu lool
[09:37] <crevette> the maobile is responsible of gnome-phone-manager ?
[10:01] <davmor2> guys I'm using moblin image creator to test out ume following the instructions here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop MIC's console can't locate ports.ubuntu.com?  I'm guessing it's a dns issue as I can't ping google either or is it something else?  How can I get around it?
[10:09] <StevenK> davmor2: Check /etc/resolv.conf
[10:09] <StevenK> davmor2: It is probably pointing to nameservers you don't have
[10:10] <davmor2> ta
[10:14] <davmor2> fixed thanks
[11:37] <lool> crevette: I don't think we are (BTW, ping me with "lool: " otherwise I don't see the ping ;)
[12:14] <crevette> hey lool
[12:14] <crevette> okay
[12:15] <crevette> it's a bit diffcult from outside to see who to poing, I'll look at the package and 'ill ping the previous uploader
[12:15] <crevette> ah it'come from debian
[12:17] <dns53> i can't seem to get a rw usb image to boot that i used image-creator to build, what should i do to track down the problem?
[12:18] <dns53> it may be in the kernel or the start of init, i can't see where one starts and the other follows
[13:59] <lool> crevette: I don't think we have someone in particular doing it in Ubuntu indeefd
[16:07] <luke_yang> msg nickserv register 123456
[16:09] <luke_yang> msg luke_yang test
[16:10] <luke_yang> msg NickServ IDENTIFY 123456
[16:10] <agoliveira> luke_yang: I don't think you're going to do much without the / in front of the command :)
[17:15] <lool> luke_yang: Do change your password, you just sent it to a public channel
[19:51] <GrueMaster> davidm: ping  Did the ABI changeover complete successfully?
[19:53] <davidm> GrueMaster, I believe it did, amitk  is the master of ceremonies on the mobile kernel so he is the best to ask.
[19:54] <GrueMaster> Ok.  Just checking as I'm having image build issues.  Of course, they could be image-creator related (again).
[19:57]  * davidm is away: I'm busy
[20:54] <crevette> lool: sorry I didn't read what you said this afternoon
[20:54] <crevette> could you repeat please ?
[21:02] <lool> crevette: 14:59 < lool> crevette: I don't think we have someone in particular doing it in  Ubuntu indeefd
[21:04] <crevette> okay
[21:04] <crevette> thanks
[21:05] <lool> GrueMaster: Last time I checked, linux-restricted-2.6.24-15 was still waiting for NEW processing on lpia
[21:05] <lool> But it doesn't take long
[21:10] <lool> I poked #ubuntu-kernel to have a look
[21:27] <GrueMaster> lool:  I think image creator is having other issues with the ppa.
[21:28] <GrueMaster> my log is showing unmet dependencies with contacts-snapshot, moblin-applets, and tasks-hildon
[21:42] <lool> GrueMaster: I'd need more details on how to reproduce the error; we've started setting up daily builds based on snapshot to catch these, but I don't think they are ready yet (didn't check though)
[21:43] <lool> GrueMaster: What exact configuration are you using?
[21:44] <GrueMaster> I get a daily git snapshot of image creator from the git tree on moblin.org.  Then I have a script that generates images from there.
[21:45] <lool> GrueMaster: What matters to me is what package set you try to apt-get install with what APT repositories in your sources
[21:45] <GrueMaster> The fset I use is crownbeach-Full-Mobile-Stack-With-Proprietary
[21:46] <GrueMaster> Everything is automated at this point.
[21:46] <GrueMaster> s/crownbeach/Crownbeach/
[21:48] <lool> GrueMaster: I think that's enough info; I'm not too tempted to start debugging tonight TBH (10:46 pm), but I'll try to think of reproducing; it's very likely GNOME 2.22.1 updates again
[21:49] <GrueMaster> the platform is menlow-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa
[21:50] <GrueMaster> And the complete image-creator command is:
[21:50] <GrueMaster> /usr/bin/image-creator --command=install-fset --platform-name=menlow-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa --project-name=ubuntu-hardy-20080407-1 --target-name=20080407 --fset=CrownBeach-Full-Mobile-Stack-with-Proprietary
[21:51] <GrueMaster> Looks like unmet dependency issues with ubuntu-mobile:
[21:51] <GrueMaster> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[21:51] <GrueMaster>   ubuntu-mobile: Depends: contacts-snapshot but it is not going to be installed
[21:51] <GrueMaster>                  Depends: moblin-applets but it is not going to be installed
[21:51] <GrueMaster>                  Depends: tasks-hildon but it is not going to be installed
[21:52] <GrueMaster> Hope that's helpful
[21:52] <lool> GrueMaster: if you want to help debug, you can chroot into the /fs dir and type apt-get install ubuntu-mobile contacts-snapshot moblin-applets tasks-hildon
[21:52] <lool> This will force apt-get to tell you about a more direct mismatch
[21:52] <lool> Ultimately, either a missing package or a package with a too old version or a conflict or something
[21:53] <lool> ATM, it reports contacts-snapshot can't be installed, but it wont tell you why (probably because e-d-s is too old)
[21:56] <GrueMaster> looks like it boils down to two problems.  first is with contacts-snapshot, which depends on evolution-data-server with depends on a newer file:
[21:56] <GrueMaster> evolution-data-server: Depends: evolution-data-server-common (= 2.22.1-0ubuntu1) but 2.22.0-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[21:57] <GrueMaster> I think this is the root of current evil.
[22:09] <lool> GrueMaster: I've pushed evolution-data-server 2.22.1-0ubuntu1~804um1 to the ppa; it should solve the first issue you see; if there are others, let me kno
[22:09] <lool> w
[22:09] <lool> (It will be built and installed in a couple of hours I'd say; less if the buildds are idle)
[22:12] <GrueMaster> it seems to be pushing through now.
[22:12] <GrueMaster> I ran apt-get update, then apt-get install ubuntu-mobile.  Lots of packages are installing now.
[22:16] <lool> GrueMaster: Well it shouldn't have been that quick
[22:17] <lool> And MIC is supposed to apt-get update
[22:17] <lool> So it means the problem went away by itself which isn't nice
[22:22] <GrueMaster> I didn't think it would be that easy.  I deleted the project and am rebuilding through my script.  I should know one way or the other in a couple of minutes.
[22:24]  * lool &
[22:35] <GrueMaster> lool:  It's now building the usb install images (last stage in my script).  That means it has gotten past whatever hiccup was currently there.  Thanks for your help.
[22:41] <crevette> good night


[08:25] <xivulon> davmor2, hi, did you have a chance to test wubi in 8.10?
[08:26] <xivulon> I am stacked with mount problems ("Device or resource busy" when mounting the ntfs device)
[08:26] <davmor2> xivulon: I did yesterday it dropped into initramfs
[08:26] <xivulon> seems consistent with the above
[08:27] <xivulon> can you pls boot in verbose mode to find out more?
[08:27] <xivulon> check /proc/mounts to see if the windows device is mounted and if not try to mount it manually with
[08:27] <davmor2> xivulon: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/268123
[08:28] <xivulon> ah missed that
[08:28] <xivulon> can you try to mount manually?
[08:28] <davmor2> verbose mode showed nothing up it went through all the hw setup and stopped dead
[08:29] <davmor2> xivulon: I can try yes take me a second or two to setup just checking everything off at the minute
[08:31] <xivulon> sure
[08:36] <xivulon> I asked cking
[08:41] <davmor2> Right okay back with you
[08:43] <xivulon> and added a couple of comments to your bug report, this is a show stopper :(
[08:44] <davmor2> Mounting /dev/sda1 on isodevice failed: invalid argument
[08:51] <xivulon> mount -t ntfs /dev/sda1 /isodevice
[08:51] <xivulon> or
[08:51] <xivulon> mount.ntfs /dev/sda1 /isodevice
[08:51] <xivulon> first should give "no such device"
[08:51] <xivulon> second should give "device or resource busy"
[08:53] <davmor2> xivulon: confirmed
[08:54] <xivulon> cking is on it, hopefully will get a fix soon
[08:54] <xivulon> evand, cjwatson FYI ^^
[10:55] <xivulon> cjwatson: did you have any chance to look into 243105?
[10:55] <xivulon> (posted on #
[10:55] <xivulon> ubuntu-kernel as well by mistake)
[11:03] <cjwatson> xivulon: no, sorry
[11:04] <xivulon> np, I will stick with ISO extraction then
[11:07] <xivulon> I have recoded almost all of wubi into python, good news is that I can probably keep it well below 2M, but it is not completed yet, and it is probably to late for 8.10
[11:08] <xivulon> it might be still a valid option for a stand alone release though, also because a bittorrent download manager is included
[15:17] <mpt> evand, I'm half-way through writing up feedback on usb-creator
[15:17] <evand> mpt: thanks!  Very much appreciated.
[15:18] <CIA-44> base-installer: cjwatson * r332 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog library.sh): releasing version 1.86ubuntu5
[15:24] <CIA-44> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2806 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py): Never select /dev/ramzswap* as a hibernation target.
[15:28] <kirkland> cjwatson: hey there...
[15:29] <kirkland> cjwatson: i'd like some help/review with http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/45354/ when you get a second
[15:30] <cjwatson> kirkland: I'm not entirely convinced that copying the mdadm template into partman-target (a) is a good idea to start with (where do translations go?) and (b) will actually work (will the value get transferred over to the debconf db in /target?)
[15:30] <cjwatson> kirkland: have you tested this?
[15:30] <kirkland> cjwatson: no, i haven't
[15:30] <kirkland> cjwatson: well, i have, but it hasn't worked for me yet :-)
[15:30] <cjwatson> kirkland: (also, minor point, please use [ foo ] || [ bar ] rather than [ foo -o bar ] - the rules for the former are labyrinthine and so it's best avoided)
[15:31] <kirkland> cjwatson: but i spent most of yesterday with my wheels spinning at this point
[15:31] <cjwatson> the rules for the latter, I mean
[15:31] <kirkland> cjwatson: fair enough, i'll fix the -o || bit
[15:31] <cjwatson> kirkland: I have to step out for a moment for the school run, but let me think about it
[15:31]  * kirkland takes a note to use the word "labyrinthine" in the future :-)
[15:31] <kirkland> cjwatson: thanks
[15:32] <kirkland> cjwatson: i wanted to put at least some code in front of you, to get some help
[15:32] <kirkland> cjwatson: and tis why its in a pastebin and not in a bug :-)  not ready to be picked up
[15:32] <cjwatson> kirkland: also you should break out of the loop after you've asked the question once
[15:33] <kirkland> cjwatson: i've already made that change locally :-)
[15:33] <cjwatson> just to nitpick the code that's there ...
[15:33] <kirkland> cjwatson: no worries, i fixed that immediately upon posting the paste
[15:36] <kirkland> cjwatson: those couple of nits are fixed in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/45357/
[15:36] <kirkland> cjwatson: the templates text is still in there, until I get advice on how to solve that
[16:06] <kirkland> cjwatson: fwiw, I opened a bug on the issue, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mdadm/+bug/268580
[16:06] <kirkland> cjwatson: in case you need to communicate about it asynchronously
[16:58] <cr3> I would like to determine when the installer fails to complete and I'm contemplating two approaches for which I'd appreciate feedback from this channel...
[16:59] <cr3> 1. report syslog to an external server, for which support was introduced in hardy, and monitor failures from that server
[17:00] <cr3> 2. have a script repeatedly run on the machine itself and check the last timestamp in the syslog, report if it has been inactive for more than x seconds
[17:00] <cjwatson> remote syslog sounds easier
[17:00] <cr3> the problem with approach #1 is that it requires a more elaborate setup with an external server, whereas the problem with #2 is that it might not be as reliable
[17:01] <cjwatson> though I suppose that you could do #2 with a preseed/early_command that forks off a daemon process
[17:01] <cjwatson> you could fetch an architecture-specific C program
[17:02] <cr3> cjwatson: could I have a udeb installed before early_command kicks in?
[17:05] <cjwatson> you could boot with anna/choose_modules=udebname
[17:05] <cjwatson> if it is of a certain type. what udeb?
[17:35] <kirkland> cjwatson: sorry to nag, i understand it's getting toward the end of your day...  i could use that advice on partman-target at your earliest convenience
[18:42] <mpt> evand, sent (finally!)
[18:42] <mpt> sorry it's a bit long, I went into a fair bit of how and why as well as what
[18:42] <evand> yay
[19:05] <evand> The how and why part was quite helpful, thanks.   (This made no difference
[21:53] <CIA-44> ubiquity: in practice because os.path.join throws away previous components upon
[21:53] <CIA-44> ubiquity: encountering an absolute path, but was inelegant.)
[21:55] <CIA-44> ubiquity: cjwatson * r2808 ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/install.py): Make the exclusion of /etc/fstab from bulk copying more precise.
[22:05] <evand> Ugh, sometimes I want to throw GTK into a furnace.
[22:08] <cjwatson> what's it doing to you?
[22:10]  * cjwatson fails to reproduce bug 251640. I wonder if I fixed that by accident
[22:10] <evand> A few things.  I'm having a bit of difficulty figuring out why labels in a vbox who's parent is the window itself are centering despite being left aligned.  I also ran into some trouble in using the container option on a hscale (same problem as last cycle), but I avoided it by not using it.
[22:10] <evand> err container option on a option button
[22:10] <cjwatson> as well as the alignment option on the label itself, I think there's an "X align" property; set that to 0.0
[22:11] <evand> I avoided it by instead packing the hscale below the option, rather than in it (inside a vbox with a label)
[22:11] <evand> indeed, already set
[22:11] <cjwatson> I suspect that what you have is a label whose text is centred within the label (e.g. if you had multiple lines they'd be centred with respect to each other) but not within its container
[22:11] <cjwatson> oh, hmm
[22:11] <evand> it's really quite odd.
[22:12] <cjwatson> perhaps put other dummy elements in and try to figure out which component is centred
[22:12] <cjwatson> are you sure it's the label rather than (say) the vbox?
[22:13] <evand> as a child of the parent window the vbox has no control over the spacing to the left and right of a child, I thought
[22:13] <evand> indeed there are no options available under packing in glade
[22:13] <evand> and spacing only affects to the top and bottom of the child widgets
[22:14] <cjwatson> I mean, is the vbox definitely extending all the way across or is it perhaps that the vbox only occupies a horizontal region in the centre?
[22:14] <evand> ah, the vbox itself definitely extends to the edges of the window
[22:14] <cjwatson> ok
[22:14] <evand> at least that's my impression from clicking on it in glade
[22:14] <cjwatson> stick the glade file somewhere and I'll see if I can make it out
[22:14] <evand> much appreciated, will do
[22:15] <cjwatson> (unless you want to battle with it on your own of course)
[22:16] <evand> http://evalicious.com/tmp/usbcreator.glade
[22:16] <evand> if you can't figure it out quickly no worries, I'll take a look at it later and work at it until I get something usable
[22:16]  * evand departs for a bit
[22:20] <cr3> if I install in some language, will that be reflected in syslog?
[22:21] <cr3> I mean, will the month like "Sep" be formatted differently?
[22:21] <cjwatson> evand: I think the problem is that both the image and the frame are set to expand within the hbox, and GTK has to put the space *somewhere*
[22:22] <cjwatson> evand: if you set both the image and the frame not to expand, it seems to fix the alignment
[22:22] <cjwatson> evand: if that puts the image too far to the left, you can stick an alignment round it
[22:22] <cjwatson> cr3: busybox syslog isn't localised, so no
[22:23] <cjwatson> evand: I have a nagging feeling I've missed some other reason, but at any rate that seems to fix the immediate problem and seems closer to the right model
[22:24] <cr3> cjwatson: thanks
[22:25] <cjwatson> kirkland: OK, sorry I didn't get round to you before now
[22:25] <cjwatson> kirkland: firstly, I think this should be in partman-md, not partman-target; you can add a new check.d script for it there
[22:26] <cjwatson> kirkland: *bing* sorry, a lightbulb just went off
[22:26] <cjwatson> kirkland: you want the translated text in mdadm too, right? great. put it there, and *also* put it in mdadm-udeb, along with the check.d script!
[22:26] <cjwatson> no more translation syncing problem
[22:27] <cjwatson> that will make it much more comfortable and less namespace-violating to call the template mdadm/boot_degraded
[22:28] <cjwatson> kirkland: you'll need a slightly awkward trick to get the answer to the question into /target; this is necessary because (presumably) you don't want to ask the question when mdadm is actually installed, but instead during partman
[22:29] <cjwatson> kirkland: this trick is: db_get mdadm/boot_degraded; echo mdadm mdadm/boot_degraded boolean "$RET" | debconf-set-selections
[22:29] <cjwatson> with a comment explaining that you're doing this so that the value gets set in /target's debconf database before mdadm is installed
[22:32] <cjwatson> kirkland: in the template, you should avoid "yes"; we try to write templates so that they're agnostic of changes in the debconf frontend. We usually prefer language such as "you might want to boot your system even with a degraded RAID if ..."
[22:32] <cjwatson> kirkland: I think perhaps the short description could be clearer. Maybe "Do you want to boot normally even if your RAID becomes degraded?"
[22:33] <cjwatson> that's all from me
[22:33] <kirkland> cjwatson: thanks, i'll review this in a bit
[22:33] <kirkland> cjwatson: chin deep in another problem :-)
[22:34] <kirkland> cjwatson: smartpm related :-P  thanks for that btw...
[22:34]  * kirkland is kidding, btw
[23:19] <evand> cjwatson: sorry, I'm not sure I understand your terminology.  There aren't any images in the file.  Also, what frame and hbox?  Perhaps this would be more quickly solved (assuming you still have the modified file and saved it) of sending it back and I'll diff against my local copy.
[23:21] <evand> I tried going as far as setting the expand property on everything to False and that didn't make the "To try or install Ubuntu..." string align properly.
[23:21]  * evand continues to dig
[23:22] <evand> (or for that matter "Source disk image" and USB disk to use")
[23:22] <cjwatson> evand: I mean the objects named "image3" and "frame5"
[23:23] <cjwatson> which are elements of the hbox indirectly containing "warning_dialog_label"
[23:23] <cjwatson> oh, you're not talking about warning_dialog at all, are you ...?
[23:24] <cjwatson> drat
[23:29] <evand> ah, sorry
[23:29] <evand> I should've been specific
[23:29] <evand> the window creatively named window
[23:30] <evand> the warning dialog is actually lifted straight from ubiquity (with modification on the warning as Abort makes the usability folk cringe).
[23:30] <cjwatson> evand: I think this is essentially http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101968
[23:31] <cjwatson> evand: GtkLabels try to avoid the label getting "too wide", and as a result refuse to use all the available horizontal space
[23:32] <cjwatson> evand: there's an easy workaround in this case, though; put the label inside a one-element hbox, and ensure that the label doesn't expand
[23:32] <cjwatson> evand: it still won't take up the whole width, but at least it will be at the LHS of the window
[23:33] <cjwatson> I like the new "Add Parent" submenu in glade-3
[23:33] <evand> ah!  I thought I had tried that but apparently not
[23:33] <evand> much appreciated!
[23:34] <evand> and agreed on that submenu.
[23:34] <evand> for some reason I still have glade-2 installed.  I think it's there to remind me of how bad things used to be.
[23:34] <evand> (alongside glade-3)