[17:12] <mup> Bug #1489321 opened:  No UI change after after node action <MAAS:Incomplete by binoy-mv> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489321>
[23:10] <mup> Bug #1489321 changed:  No UI change after after node action <MAAS:Invalid by binoy-mv> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489321>
[23:22] <mup> Bug #1489321 opened:  No UI change after after node action <MAAS:Invalid by binoy-mv> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489321>
[23:25] <mup> Bug #1489321 changed:  No UI change after after node action <MAAS:Invalid by binoy-mv> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1489321>


[00:01] <perrito666> redir: love your abbreviations
[00:03] <redir> tyvm, perrito666
[00:03] <redir> sorry i am a lazy typist
[00:03] <perrito666> lol
[00:03] <perrito666> does Maas knows how to upgrade itself?
[00:49] <mup> Bug # changed: 1312290, 1321212, 1339866, 1353242, 1357760, 1381340
[01:36] <redir> axw: updated pr from yesterday. It is a bit different so ptal https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6297
[01:36] <axw> redir: ok, looking
[01:41] <axw> redir: reviewed
[01:45] <redir> axw: tx
[02:02] <thumper> ah ha
[02:02] <thumper> think I have found why cert updater tests fail intermittently
[02:02] <thumper> well, getting to the bottom of it anyway
[02:16] <thumper> ugh
[02:16] <thumper> menn0: got a minute?
[02:37] <menn0> thumper: now I do
[02:38] <thumper> quick HO?
[02:38] <menn0> yep
[03:05] <menn0> axw: would you mind taking another look at this one please: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6302
[03:05] <menn0> axw: i've added an upgrade step now
[03:05] <axw> menn0: sure, looking
[03:09] <axw> menn0: LGTM with QA, which I see you're doing now
[03:10] <menn0> axw: cheers
[03:10] <menn0> pop quiz... what's wrong with this in the bootstrap output?
[03:10] <menn0> Launching controller instance(s) on dev...
[03:10] <menn0>  - juju-0facb9-0                                                                    00%
[03:10] <thumper> menn0: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6303
[03:11] <menn0> looking
[03:42] <thumper> menn0: are you?
[03:43] <menn0> thumper: sorry, got distracted
[03:46] <menn0> thumper: done
[03:52] <thumper> menn0: quick hangout do discuss something?
[03:53] <menn0> thumper: ok
[04:19] <mup> Bug #1626304 changed: Unit disk fills with inprogress-n files <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626304>
[04:25] <mup> Bug #1626304 opened: Unit disk fills with inprogress-n files <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626304>
[04:31] <mup> Bug #1626304 changed: Unit disk fills with inprogress-n files <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626304>
[05:23] <gennadiy> hi, we have private openstack cloud and we want to use different subnetwork for deployed software. is it possible to do it with juju 2.0 ?
[05:26] <menn0> thumper: here's the formatting fix: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6304
[05:27]  * thumper looks
[05:28] <thumper> lgtm or at least good enough
[05:47] <thumper> gennadiy: not yet I don't believe
[05:48] <thumper> gennadiy: we will have spaces and subnets for openstack soonish, but I'm not sure on the timeline
[05:48] <thumper> night all
[08:16] <Mmike> Hi, lads. I need help in creating a password hash for the unit/machine agents that is stored in the mongodb database. On a fairly complex customer environment I lost /var/lib/juju directory. I was able to recreate everything, and jujud-s start without an issue, I just had to use passwords/hashes from some other unit - but now I ended up with same passwords for two units.
[08:16] <Mmike> Is there a simple way generate both the password and the hash?
[08:16] <Mmike> This is juju 1 (1.20, we are prepping the customer for upgrade to 1.25)
[08:16] <Mmike> Erm, hi to ladies too!
[08:45] <frobware> voidspace: ping - can we sync regarding the MAAS bug we saw yesterday
[08:47] <voidspace> frobware: we can
[08:47] <frobware> voidspace: standup HO
[08:47] <voidspace> frobware: the ipv6 bug I'm on has turned critical as well :-/
[08:48] <frobware> voidspace: in my experience that category is now quite low. :)
[08:48] <voidspace> frobware: I'm in the HO
[08:48] <voidspace> frobware: category?
[08:49] <anastasiamac> voidspace: critical because the bug that u said is the same was critical ;)
[09:00] <voidspace> mgz: ping
[09:02] <frobware> voidspace: the logs do have TRACE info
[09:02] <voidspace> frobware: ah yes, odd
[09:02] <voidspace> frobware: maybe they hadn't loaded that far when I searched!
[09:02] <voidspace> frobware: I see them now, sorry
[09:17] <rogpeppe1> anyone fancy a review of a little addition to juju/testing? (factored out from somewhere else we've been using it for while): https://github.com/juju/testing/pull/111
[09:18] <rogpeppe> axw: ^
[09:22] <axw> rogpeppe: I was a bit slow, but LGTM anyway
[09:23] <rogpeppe> axw: tyvm - i always like to have someone from core sign off on juju/* PRs
[10:05] <babbageclunk> Am I in the wrong place for the core team meeting?
[10:08] <babbageclunk> juju core team meeting? Is it not on today?
[10:08] <babbageclunk> frobware, voidspace ^
[10:09] <voidspace> babbageclunk: we're in a hangout on a critical issue - so we can't make it
[10:09] <voidspace> babbageclunk: if there's no-one else there, then it probably aint happening :-(
[10:10] <babbageclunk> Oh yeah, I thought you guys might still be working on that. Weird that no-one is there.
[11:48] <frobware> voidspace: can you join the HO again?
[12:04] <frobware> voidspace: scrap that - heading out for a bit
[12:13] <voidspace> kk
[12:39] <voidspace> frobware: so it's the provisionerTask that should be creating the machines and that's using a straightforward machines watcher
[12:39] <voidspace> frobware: interestingly the "process machines with transient errors" call is from the provisioner task loop
[12:40] <voidspace> frobware: and only happens when there is something on the retryChanges notify channel
[12:40] <voidspace> frobware: I can't see in the logs a *failed* attempt that would cause that though
[12:40] <voidspace> frobware: I'm still digging through the code and the logs
[12:40] <voidspace> taking a break
[13:28] <jamespage> urgh
[13:29] <rick_h_> jamespage: that good eh?
[13:29] <jamespage> rick_h_, soooo
[13:29]  * rick_h_ runs away
[13:29] <jamespage> relations at the bottom of status
[13:29] <jamespage> mmm
[13:30] <rick_h_> jamespage: yes, what's up?
[13:30] <jamespage> the side effect of that change is that if I type juju status, I just see the list of relations
[13:30] <mgz> jamespage, did we break you somehow?
[13:30] <jamespage> for an openstack env with lots of them
[13:30] <jamespage> mgz, just feels odd
[13:31] <rick_h_> jamespage: yea, the thing was that folks doing status tend to either watch (so most improtant/changing stuff up top) or less.
[13:31] <rick_h_> jamespage: and having the things that have status/notes/etc together seemed appropriate
[13:31] <jamespage> http://paste.ubuntu.com/23215829/
[13:31] <jamespage> maybe dropping them from the tabular view althogther might be better
[13:32] <rick_h_> jamespage: so that was a thought, but because it's directly part of the "topology" held that back
[13:32] <rick_h_> e.g. two status's are very different with the relations set for something vs not set
[13:32] <jamespage> side effect is if not using watch, then a juju status cli type results in most of the useful information about 3" above the top of my monitor
[13:32] <rick_h_> so status seems "all good" as far as machines deployed/applications running but still not be useful
[13:32] <rick_h_> jamespage: right, it's a trade off one way vs the other way
[13:33] <rick_h_> We emailed the juju list, asked for feedback, and wanted to try this out.
[13:33] <jamespage> rick_h_, yeah - sorry I did read that, but had my head in other stuff at the time
[13:33] <rick_h_> jamespage: understand, this is fine. Sometimes you don't know until you try it
[13:34] <jamespage> rick_h_, btw that pastebin has the version stuff we just added in
[13:35] <rick_h_> jamespage: <3 ty
[13:35] <jamespage> rick_h_, one comment is that its a bit lossy
[13:35] <jamespage> rick_h_, as its possible to get different versions on different units during transitions
[13:36] <jamespage> and if someone does something wonky by hand
[13:36] <rick_h_> jamespage: yea, that was something we debated about that feature
[13:37] <rick_h_> jamespage: we wanted to treat it more like resources where you get what it "should" be (by what most folks think it is) and a way to ask the units
[13:37] <rick_h_> jamespage: but that got shot down
[13:50] <natefinch> maybe a flag for --relations or --no-releations depending on the default
[13:51] <natefinch> maybe same for machines... machine info is fairly boring most of the time
[13:52] <natefinch> also, we obviously need to do something about ports
[13:53] <natefinch> wow, the relation data is just static? There's no state there at all?  I agree, that shouldn't be in status at all.
[13:58] <babbageclunk> You really want an ascii-art diagram of the relations.
[13:58] <babbageclunk> (only half joking)
[14:00] <rick_h_> natefinch: katco macgreagoir voidspace ping for standup
[14:00] <rick_h_> mgz: ^
[14:00] <mgz> ta
[14:01] <voidspace> omw
[14:26] <alexisb_> babbageclunk, you around still?
[14:35] <mup> Bug #1544796 opened: Backup restore fails: upgrade in progress <2.0-count> <backup-restore> <blocker> <ci> <regression> <juju:Fix Released by cherylj> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544796>
[14:35] <mup> Bug #1626576 opened: credential v. credentials is confusing <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626576>
[14:52] <perrito666> babbageclunk: could you tell me what do you mean by provider/maas/maas2instance.go L68 ?
[14:53] <babbageclunk> perrito666: Sure - looking at it now
[14:53] <perrito666> tx
[14:53] <mup> Bug #1544796 changed: Backup restore fails: upgrade in progress <2.0-count> <backup-restore> <blocker> <ci> <regression> <juju:Fix Released by cherylj> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544796>
[14:59] <babbageclunk> perrito666: I don't remember writing that at all, but from comparing with the v1 api version it looks like it's right - that code should rerequest the status from the controller.
[14:59] <perrito666> babbageclunk: heh, ok
[15:00] <babbageclunk> perrito666: :( hope that's not the source of the problems voidspace and frobware have been chasing.
[15:00] <perrito666> babbageclunk: the problem being?
[15:02] <babbageclunk> perrito666: marcoceppi's problem where the controller was taking a long time to deploy machines
[15:02] <mup> Bug #1544796 opened: Backup restore fails: upgrade in progress <2.0-count> <backup-restore> <blocker> <ci> <regression> <juju:Fix Released by cherylj> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544796>
[15:03] <perrito666> now mup, I find that hard to believe
[15:04] <perrito666> babbageclunk: mm, could be, I have a problem like that when the deployment fails in maas
[15:05] <mup> Bug #1544796 changed: Backup restore fails: upgrade in progress <2.0-count> <backup-restore> <blocker> <ci> <regression> <juju:Fix Released by cherylj> <juju-core:Invalid> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544796>
[15:23] <natefinch> easy review anyone? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/6306
[15:23] <perrito666> you are asking if the review is easy?
[15:24] <natefinch> no
[15:24] <natefinch> I'm asking you to go look at the code and review it :)
[15:25] <katco> natefinch: i'm tal
[15:25] <perrito666> I am not tal, its a hedious templating language but ill take a look anyway
[15:26] <katco> been wanting to try a GH review :)
[15:28] <katco> is there still no way to select multiple lines for a comment?
[15:29] <rick_h_> katco: no, don't think so
[15:29] <mup> Bug #1544796 opened: Backup restore fails: upgrade in progress <2.0-count> <backup-restore> <blocker> <ci> <regression> <juju:Fix Released by cherylj> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1544796>
[15:33] <katco> natefinch: review up
[15:33] <katco> not being able to highlight lines for context is unfortunate. one of my comments appears to be about 4 lines of code when i intended it to be about the entire function
[15:34] <katco> is there some sort of best practice around that?
[15:36] <katco> wow that bothers me way more than i thought. it kind of leaves the author guessing which lines are being discussed
[15:36] <rogpeppe> natefinch: juju is using Go 1.6 now, right?
[15:37] <rick_h_> rogpeppe: yes
[15:37] <rogpeppe> rick_h_: thanks
[15:37] <rogpeppe> rick_h_: just wanted to make double sure
[15:40] <katco> how do you differentiate between a suggestion and a request in a github review?
[15:41]  * katco thinks she better go read their tutorial
[15:41] <rick_h_> katco: if it says please?
[15:41] <katco> lol
[15:42] <rogpeppe> trivial (but important) review, please: https://github.com/juju/utils/pull/239
[15:44] <rogpeppe> katco: have they fixed it so you can comment on lines that aren't changed now?
[15:44] <katco> rogpeppe: you are asking the wrong person
[15:44] <katco> rogpeppe: i have no idea
[15:44] <rogpeppe> katco: :)
[15:44] <rogpeppe> katco: i'll have to try it
[15:44] <katco> rogpeppe: looks like no?
[15:45] <rogpeppe> katco: it always annoys me when i want to say "that code you added over there should be here", but "here" wasn't somewhere that was changed
[15:45] <katco> yeah... wow that is not ideal either
[15:46] <natefinch> oh weird, yeah, it's not whether or not it's been changed, just whether or not it's in the window that shows what's changed
[15:47] <katco> natefinch: but if i expand the file that's changed i can't even comment outside the diff i don't think
[15:47] <natefinch> right yeas
[15:47] <natefinch> sorry, there's the initial preview with a little extra context, anything in that preview window you can comment on, changed or not.  Anything outside that, even when expanded, you can't.
[15:52] <natefinch> katco: I made the suggestion in the email thread about marking issues that need to be addressed with :x: which makes a nice big visible red X in the text.  It's not perfect, but it seems sufficient.
[15:53] <katco> natefinch: i agree that would be an easy convention. i am always super hesitant to add conventions to teams bc they introduce a cognitive load, and only so much of that can be maintained.
[15:57] <natefinch> katco: I know... I wish that feature existed in the review system, but I don't think it's a huge cognitive load, especially since we should all be doing reviews all the time, and should become pretty automatic.  Not really much more difficult than remembering to check "comment represents an issue" or whatever it's called.
[16:09] <mup> Bug #1626626 opened: juju status outputs ERROR "" is not a valid tag <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626626>
[16:09] <natefinch> katco: trying to figure out how to properly replace the existing notfound error with my own notfound error... it's unfortunate we wrote our errors package in the way we did, just doing type assertions
[16:10] <natefinch> katco: maybe Wrap is what I'm looking for
[16:14] <natefinch> katco: yeah, wrap seems to have the correct behavior
[16:16] <katco> natefinch: i know i always confuse them.
[16:19] <natefinch> katco: I had to actually write a little program to make sure that wrap didn't munge the old error's text in with the new one.
[16:25] <natefinch> oops... I'm going to have to get used to not doing commit --amend during reviews
[16:26] <rick_h_> natefinch: do you still have your PR in review?
[16:26] <natefinch> rick_h_: yep
[16:27] <rick_h_> natefinch: can you please create a second PR for that change but from your branch to the juju/develop branch ?
[16:27] <katco> natefinch: huh yeah, it's not really easy to tell what has changed in response to a review
[16:27] <natefinch> rick_h_: for the error message change when there's no current controller?
[16:27] <rick_h_> natefinch: yes please
[16:27] <natefinch> rick_h_: sure thing
[16:28] <rick_h_> natefinch: ty
[16:28] <natefinch> katco: it might be easier if I didn't force push an amended commit.  That's something we'll ahve to look at
[16:28] <natefinch> brb
[16:30]  * rick_h_ goes for lunchables
[16:43] <bdx> how's it going all?
[16:45] <bdx> is there a doc that details what ports and protocols need be allowed for client <-> controller, and agent <-> controller communication?
[16:46] <bdx> I'm having to write up an application network and security spec for a client
[17:09] <bdx> what I'm seeing is client <- tcp 22/17070 -> controller, and agent <- tcp 22/17070 -> controller
[17:09] <bdx> so 22 and 17070 are all that need be allowed between both sets?
[17:11] <rick_h_> bdx: sounds right
[17:45] <mup> Bug #1626626 changed: juju status outputs ERROR "" is not a valid tag <juju-core:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626626>
[18:01] <bdx> rick_h_: thanks
[18:02] <bdx> I know this is a long shot, and I think I know the answer, but may as well ask ... does juju have anyway to deploy time based instances?
[18:03] <bdx> on AWS
[18:04] <rick_h_> bdx: no, you have to script that
[18:05] <bdx> rick_h_: would it be a better practice to use the manual provider, and add machines that have been manually provisioned as time based?
[18:05] <rick_h_> bdx: maybe we're not thinking the same thing. What do you mean by time based?
[18:06] <bdx> rick_h_: something we currently use to save on our AWS bill - time based instances can be scheduled to turn off durring non use hours
[18:07] <rick_h_> bdx: oic, so it's an instance type? /me goes to look at aws docs
[18:08] <rick_h_> oh, not really an instance type, but a scaling type config on an instance layer
[18:09] <bdx> rick_h_: yea -> https://postimg.org/image/uc03ismnf/
[18:09] <rick_h_> bdx: interesting, a manual prover type situation may work?
[18:09] <rick_h_> the fun part will be how juju handles units showing up/going away like that
[18:09] <rick_h_> bdx: especially in relations, where juju epxects there to be these units talking to those units and they disappear
[18:10] <bdx> the boxes I will be manually provisioning will be lxd staging silos
[18:10] <rick_h_> bdx: since nothing there will be updating the units in the relation lists in juju
[18:10] <bdx> so they wont even have any charm deployed to them
[18:10] <rick_h_> oic
[18:12] <bdx> I'm thinking I will just use juju to grant devs access to their respective instances that will each have the lxd non prod envs on them
[18:13] <bdx> seems to be the best option for my use case of containerizing our non-prod envs
[18:14] <bdx> still seems slightly shiesty
[18:14] <bdx> ha
[18:14] <bdx> I think it will work though
[20:51] <alexisb> anastasiamac, rick, tim and I will be on another call and will not be at the bug scrub
[20:52] <anastasiamac> alexisb: \o/ enjoy
[20:52] <rick_h_> oh wheeee
[21:03] <mup> Bug #1587644 opened: jujud and mongo cpu/ram usage spike <canonical-bootstack> <canonical-is> <eda> <performance> <juju:Fix Released> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1587644>
[21:05] <anastasiamac> and bug scrub time? :D
[21:15] <mup> Bug #1587644 changed: jujud and mongo cpu/ram usage spike <canonical-bootstack> <canonical-is> <eda> <performance> <juju:Fix Released> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1587644>
[21:18] <mup> Bug #1587644 opened: jujud and mongo cpu/ram usage spike <canonical-bootstack> <canonical-is> <eda> <performance> <juju:Fix Released> <juju-core:Triaged> <juju-core 1.25:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1587644>
[21:22] <babbageclunk> menn0: hi! can I pick your brains some more please?
[21:22] <menn0> babbageclunk: sure
[21:23] <menn0> babbageclunk: hangout or IRC?
[21:23] <babbageclunk> menn0: hangout might be quicker
[21:23] <babbageclunk> https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/mongo-stuff?hl=en&authuser=1
[21:24] <babbageclunk> menn0: ^
[22:11] <veebers> thumper: would you know why when attempting a juju upgrade, this message states "juju.environs.sync sync.go:333 using agent binary 2.0-rc2-xenial-amd64 aliased to 2.0-rc2.2-xenial-amd64" why is it using patch version .2, I expected it to use .1. Any insight?
[22:12] <thumper> nope, sorry
[22:12] <thumper> well
[22:12] <thumper> the existing one probably uses .1 right?
[22:14] <veebers> thumper: the existing was rc1 binary, model version stated rc1.1, but this is using rc2 binary (and using lxd so I was expecting rc2.1)
[22:14] <thumper> hmm
[22:14] <thumper> not sure sorry
[22:15] <veebers> thumper: any idea who might be able to shed some light?
[22:15] <thumper> heh, wallyworld, but he isn't around
[22:15] <thumper> I'm not sure who reviewed those changes, perhpas axw?
[22:16] <veebers> thumper: cool, I spoke with him a little yesterday. I'll pester him again today :-)
[22:18] <axw> veebers: if the client is .1, when you go to upgrade it'll auto-increment to .2
[22:18] <axw> veebers: (because .1 is not in streams)
[22:20] <veebers> axw: so it'll go from rc1.1 -> rc2.2 ?
[22:21] <axw> veebers: sorry, didn't notice the change in RC. that doesn't seem right.
[22:26] <veebers> axw: oh odd, this run through (each time a fresh bootstrap etc.) it's aliased it to .3
[22:27] <axw> veebers:that makes no sense. the client is just plain old "rc2", right?
[22:27] <veebers> axw: oh, I plugged '--version 2.0-rc2.2' onto upgrade-juju (previous run was --version 2.0-rc2.1)
[22:27] <veebers> axw: boostrapped with rc1 binary, using rc2 binary to execute the juju-upgrade
[22:28] <axw> veebers: ok, that sounds a bit funky. if you specify a version we shouldn't be auto-incrementing anything
[22:30] <alexisb> axw, ping
[22:30] <axw> alexisb: coming
[22:49] <alexisb> thanks axw
[22:49] <axw> np
[22:52] <axw> alexisb: apparently it was wallyworld who added the default security group thing :/
[22:52] <axw> i'll ping martin anyway
[22:53] <alexisb> that must have been post the provider work
[22:53] <alexisb> did his PR state why it was added?
[22:54] <alexisb> I wonder if we can track it ot a bug
[22:54] <alexisb> it probably was a user request
[23:14] <veebers> axw: I'm going to file a bug re: the juju-upgrade --version thing, I was able to manually recreate it too
[23:14] <axw> veebers: thnaks
[23:17] <anastasiamac> alexisb: sorry.. installing bluejeans plugin
[23:36] <veebers> axw: fyi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju/+bug/1626784
[23:36] <mup> Bug #1626784: upgrade-juju --version increments supplied patch version <juju:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626784>
[23:42] <axw> mwhudson: apparently there's a meeting option: http://bluejeans.force.com/KnowledgeSearch/articles/Knowledge_Base/Mute-Participants-on-Entry-to-your-meeting/p
[23:42] <axw> alexisb: can you set that please? ^^
[23:43] <mwhudson> axw: ah awesome
[23:43] <mwhudson> axw: it was also the usual thing of "i know, i'll use the internal mic!" :(
[23:49] <mup> Bug #1626304 opened: Charm GC in 1.25.6 leaves breakage behind <juju:In Progress by menno.smits> <juju-core:In Progress by menno.smits> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626304>


[02:58] <jimcooncat>  can I set up an xnest on my standalone computer, and get a user screen on the LTSP server?
[02:58] <jimcooncat>  want to know how to initiate a connection, please
[02:59] <sbalneav> Geez, man gimme a second to work on it over in #ltsp
[03:37] <cbx33> w000h000h000 kids
[04:11] <cliebow> cbx33:Success???????????\
[04:14] <cbx33> hey cliebow
[04:14] <cbx33> just got back yesterday
[04:22] <cliebow> Cool..where are you with tcm at this point??
[04:46] <cbx33> well
[04:46] <cbx33> sbalneav and i were working on some bug fixes
[04:46] <cbx33> i'm starting a new job soon
[04:46] <cbx33> so i don't know what time i'll have spare
[04:49] <cliebow> cbx33:i get it..i been on the sidelines more than usual meself..
[04:50] <cbx33> heheh
[05:03] <bddebian> Heya
[05:11] <cbx33> hey bddebian
[05:11] <bddebian> Hello cbx33
[05:11] <cbx33> howz it going
[05:12] <bddebian> OK thanks, yourself?
[05:12] <cbx33> yeh good
[05:12] <cbx33> tired but good
[05:12] <cbx33> just got back from tenerife
[05:13] <bddebian> tenerife?
[05:20] <JordanC> In Spain
[05:21] <JordanC> It's a common tourist destination, and it's a poor place to go on holiday.. -__
[05:21] <cbx33> yup
[05:21] <cbx33> JordanC, what makes you say that?
[05:21] <JordanC> It's full of "white trash", as they say
[05:21] <cbx33> depends what you're going for
[05:22] <cbx33> we didn't actually have a choice on destination.......friends timeshare
[05:22] <cbx33> so we got to go for a reduced rate
[05:22] <JordanC> Well, I guess it's better than nothing
[05:22] <JordanC> But when I went there, lager-swilling idiots ruined it
[05:22] <cbx33> hehe
[05:23] <cbx33> wasn't too bad
[05:23] <JordanC> Plus, I went to Cuba last year
[05:23] <cbx33> we didn't goto los americos ???
[05:23] <JordanC> That was absolutely awesome
[05:24] <cbx33> calleo savaje was nice
[05:25] <JordanC> Hmm
[07:45] <LaserJock> cbx33: ping
[07:48] <cbx33> pongity
[07:48] <cbx33> hey LaserJock
[07:52] <LaserJock> cbx33: hola me amigo


[13:19] <uppock> Does cloud init support setting up ipv6 via dhcp6. Im having problems getting the correct network config in a ubuntu intance on openstack
[14:11] <jgrimm> thanks rbasak
[14:20] <smoser> uppock, if you use config drive on openstack and it provides network_data.json then it should work.
[14:21] <smoser> however, if you  just want to do "dhcp v6 on the first nic", then there is not currently a way to do that without modifying an image.
[14:21] <smoser> i recently just did this in bug
[14:21] <smoser>
[14:21] <smoser>  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cloud-init/+bug/1657940/comments/4
[14:22] <smoser> see the 'sudo tee' line there. thats how you can configure the system to do it for a spicific NIC by mac. i am pretty sure if you know the name the nic will get you can drop the mac
[14:49] <uppock> Oh
[14:51] <uppock> I do have network_data.json via the metadata server, but that does not help?
[14:58] <smoser> uppock, currently no it does not.
[14:58] <smoser> that is a change that can be done, but its not working now.
[15:02] <uppock> smoser: ok
[15:16] <uppock> thanks for the help
[16:40] <smoser> rharper, https://code.launchpad.net/~wesley-wiedenmeier/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/317589
[16:40] <smoser> so...
[16:40] <smoser> NETWORK_CONFIG_V2  is a bad name i think
[16:40] <smoser> NETPLAN_PASSTHROUGH ?
[16:40] <smoser> no. its not passthrough.
[16:40] <smoser> what shoudl we call that.
[16:57] <smoser> rharper, also i had https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319506 for you
[16:58] <smoser> which is terribly rendered there because i rebased to master
[16:58] <rharper> smoser: I don't have a better suggestion;  I had talked with magicalChicken about having maybe a list of network renderers; as well as paththrough  features
[17:00] <rharper> smoser: oh, the ntp test
[17:01] <smoser> hm.. i guess the name isnt terrible in itsel.f
[17:01] <smoser> as i think cloud-init is basically stating that it can render
[17:01] <smoser>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/24152513/
[17:01] <smoser> which is "network config v2"
[17:02] <smoser> an interesting thing though is that we cannot render the sysconfig for that yet, right?
[17:02] <rharper> not yet
[17:02] <smoser> we have a generic v2-to-v1 ?
[17:02] <rharper> yes
[17:02] <smoser> so we could v2-to-v1-to-sysconfig
[17:03] <smoser> outside of features not supported.
[17:03] <rharper> yes, v2 to network-state, and network-state to *whatever*
[17:03] <smoser> right
[17:03] <rharper> this branch adds a v2 parser -> netstate;  and then a state -> netplan
[17:04] <rharper> we have a v2 -> output skipping state
[17:04] <rharper> aka, 'passthrough'
[17:10] <powersj> smoser: test regression wrt chpasswd last night LP: #1671883
[17:10] <powersj> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1671883
[17:11] <smoser> powersj, should be fixed in trunk
[17:12] <powersj> smoser: oh look at that :)
[17:12] <powersj> I'll launch the tests again then. thanks!
[17:13] <smoser> yeah, horay for that integration test.
[17:13] <smoser> rharper, https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319605
[17:14] <smoser> magicalChicken, ^
[17:14] <smoser> that is simplified and more-inert version of https://code.launchpad.net/~wesley-wiedenmeier/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/317589
[17:31] <magicalChicken> smoser: calling it NETWORK_CONFIG_V1 might be confusing though, as there are versions of cloud-init with network config support but without the feature flags
[17:31] <powersj> smoser: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24152754/
[17:31] <smoser> "it" ?
[17:31] <rharper> smoser: would we fill that out with other input formats we support?  I sorta liked the idea of specifying the list of inputs and outputs supported
[17:31] <magicalChicken> smoser: sorry, the feature for network support
[17:32] <smoser> magicalChicken, there, i just took your suggestion, but currently if i merged this into trunk, we do not support NETWORK_CONFIG_V2
[17:32] <smoser> but we *do* support NETWORK_CONFIG_V1
[17:32] <smoser> so i listed that support as a feature
[17:32] <magicalChicken> smoser: oh, right that makes sense
[17:32] <magicalChicken> yeah, it may be good t fill out that list
[17:33] <magicalChicken> the mp i had filed had been into ~raharper/cloud-init:netconfig-v2-passthrough, once that branch lands in trunk it will support v2 though
[17:34] <smoser> magicalChicken, right.l but i was just grabbing the "add feature list"
[17:34] <magicalChicken> yeah, that makes sense
[17:34] <smoser> rharper, i dont know what to do there..
[17:35] <smoser> wrt listing "sysconfig" or "ifupdown"
[17:35] <rharper> right; those might be per distro
[17:35] <smoser> i think if we follow curtin's lead, we end up with:
[17:35] <magicalChicken> i like the features output command
[17:35] <smoser>  NETWORK_CONFIG_V1_IFUPDOWN
[17:35] <rharper> it could be a KEY into a list of distros that support those renderes
[17:35] <smoser> and
[17:36] <smoser>  NETWORK_CONFIG_V1_SYSCONFIG
[17:36] <smoser> unfortunately, that then possibly leads to
[17:36] <smoser>  NETWORK_CONFIG_V1_SYSCONFIG_WITH_BONDS
[17:36] <smoser> or something like that
[17:36] <magicalChicken> rharper: i think we had discussed this before, the per-distro features vs global features
[17:36] <rharper> RENDERERS = 'eni, sysconfig, netplan, netcfg';   distro_renderers = { 'Ubuntu': ['eni', 'netplan'], 'Fedora': ['sysconfig'] }
[17:36] <rharper> yeah
[17:42] <smoser> powersj, [embarrased] how do i run integration test for specific test ?
[17:42] <smoser> rharper, so i dont want to over complicate things.
[17:43] <powersj> As an example: python3 -m tests.cloud_tests run -v -n xenial -t tests/cloud_tests/configs/modules/set_password.yaml --deb cloud-init_daily_all.deb
[17:43] <smoser> i dont think t here is any reason to query cloud-init and say "can you render Fedora/sysconfig"
[17:43] <rharper> smoser: agreed; certainly for now, a flag or two makes sense
[17:43] <smoser> i can see a reason to say "if i gave you v2, can you render that for *THIS SYSTEM*"
[17:43] <rharper> we may want something more complex later
[17:44] <rharper> smoser: from curtin perspective, it will know what it has (v1 or v2)  and it will want to know if cloud-init can render it , and it *will* know what the target os is
[17:44] <rharper> so, I do think it's cloud-init, can you render v2 -> fedora/sysconfig
[17:45] <rharper> because, they may want to see if we can v2 -> fedora/networkd
[17:45] <rharper> I do think it's  os + networkcfg format
[17:45] <smoser> powersj, what am i doing wrong
[17:45] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24152788/
[17:47] <powersj> smoser: what version of pylxd do you have? If I recall 2.1.3 is still the one that works best until we get magicalChicken's branch added
[17:47] <smoser> 2.2.3-0ubuntu1
[17:48] <magicalChicken> smoser: you need to run from the current branch then
[17:48] <magicalChicken> smoser: the old cloud_tests can't handle 2.2
[17:49] <magicalChicken> wait, if 2.2.3 is out that means that the fix for the leaked file handle bug is released, so I can go ahead and update the tox env in the new version
[17:49] <magicalChicken> that means we should be able to run 2.2.3 on jenkins
[17:49] <powersj> yep looks like that just got released!
[17:49] <magicalChicken> nice
[17:51] <powersj> getting that + the tox commands would make smoser's life easier too
[17:51] <smoser> yeah, do you have a example tox env ?
[17:52] <magicalChicken> smoser: 1 sec
[17:52] <magicalChicken> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24152810/
[17:52] <magicalChicken> smoser: ^
[17:53] <magicalChicken> powersj: i am going to be able to work almost full time next week, so i may go ahead and add support for distro and platform feature flags and write some of the kvm platform
[17:54] <magicalChicken> powersj: i have been talking to jgrimm about getting centos tests running smoothly so we can start integration testing there too
[17:54] <powersj> magicalChicken: no beach vacation for spring break? ;)
[17:54] <magicalChicken> powersj: haha no, probably not :)
[17:55] <powersj> magicalChicken: sounds great -- let me know what you start on. I can jump between bugs and the kvm stuff
[17:55] <magicalChicken> powersj: sure, sounds good
[17:55] <magicalChicken> i'll get all thise done in a new branch so that mp doesn't get any bigger
[17:55] <jgrimm> thanks magicalChicken
[17:56] <magicalChicken> jgrimm: no problem :)
[17:56] <smoser> powersj, was that the test that failed ? tests/cloud_tests/configs/modules/set_password.yaml
[17:56] <powersj> smoser: yes
[17:56] <smoser> ok.
[17:58] <smoser> magicalChicken, can you just put a MP for the citest toxenv right now ?
[17:58] <smoser> that is very useful on its own.
[17:59] <magicalChicken> smoser: sure i'll pull that out
[18:00] <magicalChicken> smoser: if it would make it easier to review the main one, i can split it up into a few smaller ones. they'll all still be needed to get everything working but it may make the diff easier to read
[18:02] <powersj> magicalChicken: if there are some things that we could divide out it probably would be good to do anyway
[18:03] <magicalChicken> powersj: part of the problem is that if i divide things out, the test suite as a whole won't work until almost all of it is merged in
[18:03] <smoser> magicalChicken, patch series are easier, yeah.
[18:04] <smoser> you can just work it as a patch series...
[18:04] <smoser> in a single mp, and rebase ... commit --fixup.... like that.
[18:04] <magicalChicken> smoser: the commit history is already pretty heavily modified, there aren't really any junk commits left
[18:05] <magicalChicken> i can do it a bit further though
[18:05] <smoser> ok.
[18:05] <smoser> if you want, i can just do the tox.ini change for trunk right now.
[18:06] <smoser> powersj, that wont cause harm to antying in c-i right ?
[18:06] <smoser> if i aadded 'citest' tox
[18:06] <magicalChicken> smoser: that should be fine
[18:06] <powersj> smoser: correct that is fine
[18:06]  * powersj greatly wants that change too
[18:06] <magicalChicken> smoser: it would have to just be the pylxd 2.1.3 env for now though ,the 2.2.3 env would break
[18:07] <smoser> ok
[18:11] <smoser> magicalChicken, powersj
[18:11] <smoser> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24152915/
[18:12] <smoser> that look sane ? i'll push that now.
[18:12] <smoser> w
[18:12] <magicalChicken> smoser: yeah, that looks good, thanks
[18:12] <powersj> +1
[18:12] <smoser> pushed.
[18:13] <magicalChicken> at some point we should probably update the docs again, but there's enough stuff changing for now that it can probably wait
[18:15] <smoser> and powersj trunk should hopefully pass again
[18:16] <powersj> smoser: thank you
[18:16] <smoser> rharper, you want to ack https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319605 ? and i'll pull it
[18:19] <jgrimm> magicalChicken, fwiw i generally like to see doc changes accompany said code/test changes.
[18:19] <jgrimm> but please open a bug as reminder if known gaps
[18:20] <magicalChicken> jgrimm: sure, i'll open a bug to track integration-testing doc updates
[18:20] <jgrimm> thanks
[18:20] <magicalChicken> i'll see if i can get to some of those changes next week
[18:20] <jgrimm> +1 thanks
[18:39] <rharper> smoser: done
[18:48] <smoser> powersj, i kicked https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/job/cloud-init-integration-z/ and it ran successful
[18:48] <powersj> smoser: good, I had gone into torkoal after I saw the failure and blew away the offending lxc image
[18:49] <powersj> that means tot is fixed as well :) \o/
[18:49] <smoser> ah. i didnt realize there had been lxc issues
[18:49] <powersj> "Failed to create ZFS filesystem: cannot mount '/var/lib/lxd/images/(uuid of image)"
[18:50] <powersj> this is the issue cpaelzer and I keep hitting on the test systems
[18:51] <powersj> I am trying to reproduce locally, but waiting for new daily images as I think that is when it happens
[19:33] <cpaelzer> ?
[19:33] <cpaelzer> powersj: so we hit it again?
[19:33] <powersj> cpaelzer: on torkoal yeah :(
[19:33] <cpaelzer> without touching LXD versions
[19:33] <powersj> correct
[19:33] <cpaelzer> just as I promised
[19:34] <cpaelzer> are you giving stgraber access again?
[19:34] <cpaelzer> probably the best debug chance
[19:34] <powersj> well, I already blew the failed image away
[19:34] <cpaelzer> did that make it working?
[19:34] <powersj> yes
[19:34] <cpaelzer> e.g. after sync of the same image it is ok
[19:34] <cpaelzer> hmm
[19:34] <cpaelzer> interesting
[19:35] <cpaelzer> but that is a great indicator where stgraber can check next time it happens
[19:35] <powersj> yeah
[19:35] <cpaelzer> powersj: did yu update the github issue I filed`
[19:35] <cpaelzer> ?
[19:35] <powersj> no, but I can
[19:35] <cpaelzer> thanks
[19:35] <cpaelzer> uh, I just got suggested that I#M in EOD (EOW) for a while ...
[19:36]  * cpaelzer hushing back to family
[19:36] <powersj> :D
[19:40] <powersj> magicalChicken: for integration tests, the only system requirements right now are python3, lxd, and pylxd==2.1.3?
[19:41] <magicalChicken> powersj: as far as i know yeah
[19:42] <powersj> Updating the docs with how to run via tox + putting small section on dependencies
[19:42] <magicalChicken> powersj: that's all that is set up in the tox env and that works
[19:42] <magicalChicken> powersj: oh, nice
[19:42] <powersj> magicalChicken: https://paste.ubuntu.com/24153367/
[19:42] <magicalChicken> i'll pull those changes in with the pylxd 2.2 stuff and update them for that as well
[19:43] <magicalChicken> powersj: yeah, that looks good
[19:43] <powersj> ok
[19:43] <powersj> thx!
[19:43] <magicalChicken> powersj: it may be worth changing the full path to the test config to just moduules/user_groups
[19:44] <powersj> I don't need the "tests/cloud_tests/configs" part?
[19:44] <magicalChicken> it doesn't really make a difference, but i find it easier to read that way
[19:44] <magicalChicken> powersj: no, the argument normalizer will handle that for you
[19:44] <powersj> O.o didn't know this
[19:45] <magicalChicken> i built in relative path -> absolute path stuff pretty much everywhere because i'm lazy typing out commands :)
[19:45] <powersj> let me go try this then
[19:48] <smoser> rharper, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24153396/
[19:50] <rharper> ok
[19:50] <rharper> smoser: re the virtual stuff; that's just super annoying
[19:51] <powersj> magicalChicken: very nice
[19:51] <rharper> I don't think rename in lxc is an issue, no? it's created with the name it needs
[19:51] <rharper> smoser: so not sure why that matters
[19:53] <magicalChicken> powersj: :) the code that handles args in the new version is kinda cool
[19:53] <smoser> well, definitely one way to interact with lxc is to request it to name your network devices.
[19:54] <smoser> but another is to tell cloud-init via network config.
[19:55] <rharper> smoser: I updated my comment in the bug; we need to somehow detect duplicate macs and sort out the *real* interface that should be renamed
[19:56] <smoser> yeah.
[19:56] <rharper> smoser: that's for the review, replying to it is somewhat awkward
[19:56] <smoser> agree
[19:57] <smoser> why did i do it like that..
[19:57] <smoser> because it wasnt submitted for merge
[19:57] <smoser> right ?
[19:57] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/%7Ecurtin-dev/curtin/trunk/+activereviews
[19:58] <smoser> bah. well it woudlt be there
[19:58] <smoser> for some reason i thought you hadn't clicked submit
[19:58] <smoser> i can replay my comments onto the mp
[19:58] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319259
[20:07] <smoser> rharper, updated. https://code.launchpad.net/~raharper/cloud-init/+git/cloud-init/+merge/319259
[20:14] <rharper> smoser: I sent a mail reply
[20:22] <dtp> hello.  cloud-init-0.7.8-5.fc25 is failing to write net config for me on Fedora 25.  error is [ValueError: Unknown subnet type 'loopback' found for interface 'lo'] at net/sysconfig.py:238
[20:23] <harlowja> larsks have u seen anything like that ( dtp was poking me - also works at godaddy, but not sure if u've already fixed that, lol )
[20:24] <larsks> harlowja: I haven't seen that previously, but 'loopback' is clearly not one of the supported types in NetInterface.iface_types...
[20:24] <harlowja> ya, lol
[20:24] <larsks> ...but why are they passing in configuration for lo?
[20:24] <larsks> That sounds goofy.
[20:25] <harlowja> agreed
[20:25] <dtp> my content/0000 looks like ubuntu w/ an [iface lo inet loopback] line
[20:26] <dtp> http://imgur.com/a/qEElh
[20:26] <rharper> isn't the content/XXXX path where a complete eni  is being injected rather than using network_data.json ?
[20:27] <dtp> added network_data.json image to that link, too
[20:28] <dtp> i don't see a loopback in network_data.json; so must be coming from content/0000?
[20:28] <rharper> I need to review the code path, but I thought if we got a content eni file, we'd just pass that through; but maybe we're attempting to inject the eni into network_State and then re-render something else (like sysconfig)
[20:29] <rharper> which sounds like what's happening
[20:29]  * harlowja didn't think we did that (but maybe we do, ha)
[20:29] <rharper> well
[20:29] <dtp> added most of the stack trace to that link
[20:29] <rharper> but if openstack sends a network_data.json, I'd think we prefer that to injesting eni into network_state
[20:30] <larsks> rharper: and yet, the network_data.json doesn't container any reference to lo...
[20:30] <rharper> it shouldn't
[20:30] <larsks> well, of course not.
[20:31] <larsks> So the exception dtp  is seeing suggests that we *don't* prefer network_data.json.
[20:31] <rharper> yeah
[20:31] <rharper> I wonder why they send both
[20:36] <larsks> rharper: huh, looking at the code, it seems as if network_json should take precedence: https://github.com/cloud-init/cloud-init/blob/master/cloudinit/sources/DataSourceConfigDrive.py#L142
[20:36] <larsks> dtp: do you see any of those message in your logs (on lines 145 or 150)?
[20:37] <dtp> not that i recall larsks, but i will dbl check now
[20:38] <dtp> not that i can see
[20:39] <larsks> Hmm. I need to run off, but if you haven't already, open a bug so that we don't forget (including details of cloudinit version, distro and version, cloud provider, etc)
[20:39] <dtp> ok
[20:51] <dtp> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1671927
[20:54] <rharper> larsks: not quite;  the code I see checks if the we have a self._network_config; if it's None, then we check if we have a network_json and convert;  so the eni file mapped in the metadata content will get used first
[20:55] <larsks> rharper: ah, good catch.
[20:56] <rharper> larsks: but I think we're meant to
[20:56] <rharper> given the network_eni
[20:59] <rharper> in distro/rhel.py we do this;  so I suspect we're getting the eni passed in here;  entries = net_util.translate_network(settings)
[21:17] <rharper> something funny is going on w.r.t the type of network config that was found and passed in;  more investigation needed;
[21:18] <rharper> dtp-afk: if you can, attaching the configdrive to the bug would be super helpful
[21:20] <smoser> rharper, sorry for the noise above with the patch comments... can you re-play on the MP ?
[21:20] <rharper> yes
[21:20] <smoser> i'ms orry i just didnt' think you'd proposed for merge
[21:20] <smoser> :-(
[21:20] <rharper> no worries
[21:21]  * rharper forklifts into web form
[21:21]  * rharper mumbles something about gerrit
[22:37] <dtp> rharper you want the directory listing or ?
[22:52] <dtp> uploaded 0000 and meta_data.json


[08:04]  * RyuKurisu[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/RBAZHSrSOqNFtFGQCmLvMCmF/message.txt >
[10:04] <Curium> Hello!
[10:07] <Curium> I force-powered off a laptop with Lubuntu 18.04 (32-bit), and now it won't log in. Whenever I try, it returns me to the login screen.
[10:07] <Curium> Does anyone know how to fix this?
[10:09] <guiverc> Curium, rather than a power off, did you try commanding the machine to safely shutdown (ie. SysRq commands)...     After a power off, I'd boot a *live* system and file-system check (fsck) your disks
[10:09] <guiverc> I would then boot it normally, login via terminal to ensure you have free space, then try normal gui login (lack of disk space in $HOME or the user directory can cause login-loop)
[10:10] <Curium39> Oops, got disconnected there.
[10:10] <guiverc>  After a power off, I'd boot a *live* system and file-system check (fsck) your disk.  I would then boot it normally, login via terminal to ensure you have free space, then try normal gui login (lack of disk space in $HOME or the user directory can cause login-loop)
[10:10] <guiverc> Curium39, ^
[10:11] <Curium39> Ah thanks. It might be low on space. How do I check?
[10:11] <guiverc> Also don't power-off a machine, you can use SysRq keys to cause the kernel to cleanly shutdown. grab a phone and search "magic sysrq" for the commands if you don't remember them, the wikipedia article is usually near top & is pretty good at safe shutdowns
[10:12] <guiverc> `df -hl`  (disk free, -h for human output, -l for local filesystems only, the options are optional)
[10:13] <Curium39> Available: 0
[10:13] <Curium39> Disk space it is.
[10:13] <Curium39> Thanks for your help!
[10:13] <guiverc> :)
[10:15] <Curium39> And I'm in! Thanks again!
[15:43] <leonard> Hallo
[20:23] <cool_skeleton_95> Is there anyway to have a widget that allows you to change the brightness of the screen?
[20:28] <acab> do you already have it with you Backlight tried?


[01:20] <ausimage> Is anybody awake today?
[01:24] <Burgundavia> nope :)
[01:24] <ausimage> hmm at least you answered today ;)
[01:24] <ausimage> Burgundavia: I have been trying to find out more about the fridge calendar.
[01:25] <Burgundavia> what information do you need?
[01:26] <ausimage> um I wondering if it is possible to extend the calendar to note locations of meetings... ie different than #ubuntu-meeting...
[01:26] <ausimage> This is ScribesTeam initiative trying to note when meetings are held...
[01:27] <Burgundavia> ah
[01:27] <Burgundavia> hmm
[01:28] <ausimage> I guess my goal is to find a way for all teams to list their meetings and the community to find them in a single place...
[01:29] <ausimage> And I know that not all meetings are held #ubuntu-meeting ;)
[01:29] <ausimage> Burgundavia: My thought was using the 'where' or 'place' tag in the ical format...
[01:30] <Burgundavia> ah
[01:30] <Burgundavia> I have no idea how to do that, but post the idea to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:30] <ausimage> K I will...
[01:31] <ausimage> Burgundavia: The ScribesTeam would enjoy a writeup on the fridge sometime . ;)
[01:31] <Burgundavia> send me one :)
[01:31] <Burgundavia> or fridge-devel, rather
[01:31] <ausimage> to the list ???
[01:32] <ausimage> you handle calendar anouncements there?
[01:38] <ausimage> Burgundavia: um do you know who is point on getting a mailing list?
[01:38] <Burgundavia> it is an open list
[01:38] <Burgundavia> email it and it will go through
[01:39] <ausimage> Oh sorry I was talking about one for Scribes Team....


[19:17] <allohak> what is meant by "non-support"?
[19:18] <AlanBell> hi allohak
[19:18] <AlanBell> well it means that if you want to get help fixing something on your computer then the place for that is #ubuntu
[19:18] <AlanBell> but if you just want to talk about stuff then go right ahead
[19:19] <allohak> I see, I came here because so far #ubuntu and #ubuntu-server have not been much help
[19:20] <allohak> I was not sure if by "support" they meant "official paid-for support" or if they just meant it in the general sense
[19:20] <AlanBell> #ubuntu is probably the right place for that question
[19:21] <AlanBell> but it is not something that many people will come across
[19:22] <allohak> well, I have spent some time searching about on my particular question, and suspect that I need someone familiar with the server setup to help me
[19:25] <allohak> Question about IRC use (I don't frequently use this system) - is it considered bad form to repost your question every 10 minutes or so if you are not getting replies?
[19:25] <AlanBell> yeah, a bit if you do it too often
[19:25] <AlanBell> there is also askubuntu.com
[19:25] <AlanBell> that might be a better place for that question as questions stay there a bit longer
[19:26] <allohak> ok, perhaps I will try that
[19:29] <IdleOne> there is also #ubuntu-server
[19:30] <IdleOne> allohak: every 10-15 minutes is an acceptable delay in most support channels
[19:31] <allohak> IdleOne, Thanks for the suggestions. I have been posting my question periodically there as well, around the same rate you just suggested. I just was not sure if this was frowned upon or not
[19:35] <IdleOne> nope it is good. keep in mind that there isn't always someone around who knows the answer so it could take some time to get help.
[19:36] <IdleOne> !forums
[19:36] <IdleOne> you might also want to check the forums out
[19:36] <allohak> IdleOne, Yeah, I understand these rooms are volunteer staffed. I've posted on askubuntu.com at AlanBell's recommendation
[19:37] <allohak> ubot5, Thanks for the suggestion, but I've already been digging through them for some time now
[19:41] <IdleOne> I first started using computers in late 1999. I had no speakers, hell the computer I used had no sound card at all, didn't occur to me for almost 2 years that i could actually listen to music.
[19:42] <IdleOne> I sometimes miss the hum of the computer and the system bell
[19:44] <AlanBell> you can listen to music?!?
[19:45] <IdleOne> AlanBell: yes
[19:47] <IdleOne> I only realised that I could listen to music because at the time there was a .wav file that was very popular, wiggle.wav that all my friends would play (This is back in my EFnet days) and I was like what is this wiggle.wav mirc keeps telling me it can't play.
[19:48] <IdleOne> probably still have that wav saved somewhere
[20:30] <LordOfTime> is there an ubuntu discussion mailing list, or no?  purely curious.
[20:32] <AlanBell> lots of them :)
[20:32] <AlanBell> but no particular counterpart to this channel I think
[20:32] <LordOfTime> well i found an interesting thing in Maximum PC magazine, they have one article in this november's issue on Win 8, and the one after that is about Linux, and the one they recommend is Ubuntu.
[20:32] <LordOfTime> i found that extremely interesting :p
[20:33] <AlanBell> nice
[20:33] <LordOfTime> they're usually heavy into tech stuff, and usually Windows oriented.  I use them for my clients' builds when they want a powerhouse build i can really charge em for :P
[20:33] <LordOfTime> but this issue piqued my interest :p
[20:36] <LordOfTime> namely because i was curious how they rated win 8, but also because on the front cover they have at the top left "Is it time to learn linux?" (which REALLY piqued my interest)
[20:36] <LordOfTime> anyways, just found that tidbit interesting
[20:36] <LordOfTime> back to work for me :P


[19:37] <cr3> has anyone used a wacom bamboo tablet as a multi touch device? is there anything special I need to do?
[19:44] <cr3> running mtdev-test /dev/input/event12 returns nothing after supported mt events :(
[19:45] <cr3> however, the hardware support page seems to indicate that wacom usb has been supported since 11.04: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/HardwareSupport
[20:04] <dandrader> not me
[20:06] <cnd> cr3: the bamboo touch should work out of the box as a touchpad
[20:06] <cnd> which means that X synaptics will grab the dev event node
[20:07] <cnd> so mtdev and any similar programs like evemu and evtest will not work unless you stop X or vt switch away
[20:13] <cr3> cnd: it should work as a touchscreen rather than a touchpad, right? ie, I shouldn't expect to do two finger scrolling, not that I know how to get it working with my finger anyways
[20:13] <cnd> cr3: you can make it behave like a touchscreen if you want
[20:13] <cnd> but by default it behaves like a touchpad
[20:13] <cnd> because it isn't a touchscreen
[20:14] <cnd> and the bamboo touch line is usually a bit too small to actually behave like a touchscreen
[20:15] <cr3> cnd: this is a bamboo tablet (mte-450) though, it behaved like a touchscreen when I plugged it in: http://www.tablet4u.co.uk/product/en/bamboo-tablet.html
[20:15] <cnd> cr3: when you say it behaved like a touchscreen, what exactly do you mean?
[20:15] <cnd> maybe I am misunderstanding
[20:18] <cr3> cnd: heh, and maybe I'm not expressing myself well because this is all new to me :) first, in system settings, it appears as a wacom graphics tablet. second, the tablet only responds to the stylus so I can't imagine how it could be used as a touchpad
[20:19] <cnd> cr3: in X terms, we use "direct" and "indirect" input devices
[20:19] <cnd> a direct input device, like a touchscreen, makes the cursor move to wherever you touch on the device
[20:19] <cnd> if you touch the top left corner, the cursor will move to the top left corner of the screen, no matter where it was previously
[20:20] <cnd> an indirect device will behave like a touchpad, where the cursor movement is controlled by relative motion of the input device
[20:20] <cnd> an indirect device is also a relative device, like a mouse
[20:20] <cnd> in fact, indirect is very similar to "relative", and direct is very similar to "absolute" positioning
[20:21] <cnd> I'm not exactly sure how your bamboo tablet would behave, I was thinking about my bamboo touch, which only has touch input (no pen)
[20:21] <cnd> I actually do expect your tablet to behave like a touchscreen, but we'd have to check to be sure
[20:22] <cnd> if it's behaving like a touchscreen, then it should work with mtdev
[20:22] <cnd> can you run xinput --list --all and pastebin the results?
[20:22] <cr3> cnd: I could try mtdev-test in a vt, one sec
[20:22] <cnd> ok
[20:23] <cr3> cnd: ok, stuff is happening when I run mtdev-test, but I don't see the usual ABS_MT_* at the top of running mtdev-test
[20:24] <cr3> cnd: as for running xinput --list --all, that returns: unable to find device --all
[20:24] <cnd> then my guess would be that your tablet isn't being recognized as a multitouch device
[20:24] <cnd> if it only has pen input, no touch input, then it's just single touch input anyway, right?
[20:25] <cr3> cnd: it could be single touch input, I was hoping it might be more to touch real multitouch devices
[20:25] <cnd> xinput --list --long is what we need
[20:27] <cr3> cnd: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1187794/
[20:28] <cnd> cr3: yeah, no multitouch :(
[20:28] <cnd> it's just a singletouch pen tablet
[20:28] <cr3> cnd: do you think that the bamboo tablet is essentially like a touchscreen? in other words, are touchscreens multitouch?
[20:29] <cnd> a touchscreen can be single-touch
[20:29] <cnd> so your tablet is like a singletouch touchscreen
[20:31] <cr3> cnd: when a touchpad supports two finger scrolling, is that reall multi touch?
[20:31] <cr3> s/reall/really/
[20:31] <cnd> it depends
[20:32] <cnd> it might be multi-finger singletouch
[20:32] <cnd> where it reports only one location, but guesses the number of touches on the trackpad
[20:32] <cnd> or it may be full multitouch
[20:41] <cr3> cnd: so, on the CheckingMTDevice wiki page, it says to use mtdev-test to test for multi touch. however, I ran it on a few laptops, some of which didn't even support ABS_MT_*, and it always outputs stuff when moving the touchpad mouse
[20:42] <cr3> cnd: I'm quite sure these laptops are not all multi touch though, so perhaps I'm not looking for the right thing in the output
[20:42] <cnd> hmmm… that page is out of date...
[20:42] <cr3> some laptops are from 2006, so not recent
[20:42] <cnd> xinput --list is the best way
[20:42] <cnd> you're right that it will always output stuff
[20:43] <cnd> you have to check that mtdev outputs ABS_MT_*
[20:43] <cnd> but that's easier said than done
[20:48] <cr3> cnd: so, if I understand correctly, when mtdev outputs ABS_MT_* that means that the touchpad can report two or more absolute coordinates in order to be considered multitouch, right?
[20:48] <cnd> correct
[20:49] <cr3> cnd: is there a possibility that mtdev outputs ABS_MT_* but physically pressing two fingers on the touchpad doesn't work? in other words, do you think that physical validation of multitouch support will uncover potential problems?
[20:49] <cnd> not likely
[20:49] <cnd> devices need linux drivers to have multitouch suppor
[20:50] <cnd> it doesn't magically occur :)
[20:50] <cnd> so anything that does say it is multitouch almost assuredly is
[20:51] <cr3> cnd: that's great because the test can be automated! however, do you know of a way to script such a test considering that ctrl-alt-f1 to vt in order to run mtdev-test is going to be really difficult to script :)
[20:51] <cnd> well, mtdev-test isn't the best way to go at this point
[20:51] <cr3> cnd: I mean, is there a way to determine whether a touchpad outputs ABS_MT_* other than running mtdev-test in a vt :)
[20:51] <cnd> it would be better to use the output of xinput --list --long
[20:52] <cnd> and look for XITouchClass
[20:52] <cr3> cnd: ok, let me compare a couple systems, one moment..
[20:52] <cnd> k
[20:57] <cr3> cnd: seems to be quite apparent: Class originated from: 0. Type: XITouchClass
[20:59] <cr3> cnd: could multitouch screens be tested the same way? ie, will they also appear with XITouchClass for a separate input device in the output of xinput --list --long?
[21:02] <cnd> yes, they will have XItouchClass too
[21:05] <cr3> cnd: interesting, a colleague just sent me the output of their xinput --list --long from a laptop that apparently has a multitouch touchscreen: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1187841/
[21:05] <cr3> cnd: from what I can see, it doesn't look like the touchscreen supports multitouch though, right?
[21:06] <cnd> so serial wacom tablets are a bit of a sore point
[21:06] <cnd> they can be multitouch
[21:06] <cnd> but you have to force them into a specific mode using a user-space tool
[21:06] <cnd> I don't really know how to do it myself
[21:06] <cnd> but I know bdmurray has been able to get it to work
[21:07] <cnd> but in its default startup state it behaves like a single touch touchscreen
[21:07] <cr3> cnd: hm, I remember seeing something about wacom serial on the HardwareSupport page under the MultiTouch wiki pages: " Need to use setserial to configure. "
[21:07] <cnd> yeah
[21:07] <cr3> cnd: ok, for enablement purposes, I still want to fail the device because user experience is bad and I want the vender to know about it :)
[21:08] <cnd> I would say so
[21:09] <cnd> if it doesn't boot up into multitouch mode, then it's a poor experience
[21:09] <cr3> cnd: apparently, multitouch worked out of the box in quantal. if you'd like, I could ask him to join this channel if you might have a few questions
[21:09] <cnd> I don't have any questions?
[21:09] <cnd> I personally don't care about wacom
[21:09] <cnd> well, old wacom serial I mean
[21:10] <cnd> they are only two touch
[21:10] <cnd> which doesn't get you much in ubuntu right now
[21:16] <cr3> cnd: if a toushcreen is not reporting XITouchClass, as in the case of wacom serial, but it does actually support two finger touch, how would you suggest I test for that?
[21:16] <cnd> well, that's a practically impossible task
[21:16] <cnd> you can't do anything if the kernel says it's not supported
[21:18] <cr3> cnd: if the kernel says it's not support, how can it work?
[21:18] <cr3> supported even?
[21:20] <cnd> it can't?
[21:20] <cnd> I don't understand what you're asking
[21:24] <cr3> cnd: in this output of xinput, the touchscreen apparently doesn't support multitouch (no XITouchClass) but my colleague says it supports multitouch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1187841/
[21:24] <cnd> yes
[21:24] <cnd> there's no way for a script to know that
[21:27] <cr3> cnd: to recap, a touchpad or a touchscreen that reports XITouchClass in the output of xinput will necessarily work, but the opposite is not necessarily true where these devices don't report XITouchClass then they might work, right?
[21:27] <cnd> you could say that, but most likely devices that don't have a touch class just aren't multitouch devices
[21:27] <cnd> like your tablet
[21:27] <cnd> it just isn't a multitouch device
[21:28] <cnd> most multitouch devices these days work out of the box
[21:30] <cr3> cnd: if it's not a multitouch device but it behaves well enough according to criteria I'm not in control of, I might want to test physically
[21:31] <cr3> cnd: could you recommend a way for me to detect something like: when user presses two fingers on the touchscreen, the test passes?
[21:31] <cnd> I don't understand
[21:31] <cr3> cnd: for example, would it be possible to listen on the output of xinput test-xi2 for specific events?
[21:31] <cnd> if xinput says it's not multitouch, then it's not multitouch
[21:31] <cnd> it won't work
[21:32] <cnd> you can listen to the output of events from xinput test-xi2
[21:32] <cnd> it will tell you when there are touch events
[21:32] <cnd> but you won't get any touch events from non-multitouch devices
[21:34] <cr3> cnd: so how does the system simulate support for two finger touch for a wacom serial touchscreen?
[21:34] <cnd> it doesn't
[21:34] <cnd> there's no "simulation" of multitouch
[21:34] <cnd> if it's not multitouch, then it's not multitouch :)
[21:35] <cnd> or the driver doesn't support multitouch, which is basically the same
[21:35] <cnd> as far as any script can tell
[21:37] <cr3> so, it doesn't seem to be possible to determine whether a device that is physically a multitouch actually works as a multitouch device:
[21:37] <cr3> 1. if it's detected as a multitouch device, it'll just work
[21:37] <cr3> 2. if it's not detected as a multitouch device, then who's to know it's physically a multitouch device
[21:38] <cr3> cnd: does that sound about right?
[21:38] <cnd> exactly :)
[21:51] <cr3> cnd: if I wanted to make double sure that multitouch was working, like wearing a belt and suspenders, I would first check for XITouchClass but I would then want to verify physically...
[21:51] <cr3> cnd: if I listen to the output of events from xinput test-xi2, is there anything I should be paying attention to for multitouch events?
[21:56] <cnd> cr3: yes, look for XITouch{Begin,Update,End} events
[21:57] <cr3> cnd: sweet, I think that will make everyone happy :)
[21:57] <cnd> good :)


[07:44] <mrblack> hi
[07:45] <mrblack> anyone is here?
[07:45] <mrblack> hi hasselm
[07:45] <duflu> mrblack: Yes?
[07:46] <mrblack> i have a question
[07:46] <mrblack> i want to make my nexus 5 dualboot ubuntu touch and android 6.0.1
[07:47] <mrblack> and i installed multirom on android
[07:47] <mrblack> but it has no stable version of ubuntu touch
[07:47] <mrblack> and other versions not boot
[07:48] <duflu> I don't think you can dual boot Android with Ubuntu... can you?
[07:48] <duflu> Oh, you can
[07:48] <mrblack> ubuntu touch can not boot
[07:48] <duflu> I'm out of date
[07:49] <duflu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/DualBootInstallation
[07:49] <mrblack> oh. thank you so much :-*
[07:49]  * duflu learned something new
[07:50] <mrblack> on nrxus 5 it cant be
[07:50] <mrblack> nexus
[07:51] <duflu> Hmm, yeah dualboot.sh supports hammerhead (Nexus 5)
[07:52] <mrblack> greate
[07:52] <mrblack> :-*
[10:59] <mrblack> hey every body
[12:03] <mrblack> it cant be dual boot ubuntu touch and android on nexus 5 hammerhead
[12:32] <Guest15521> in which phone i can install ubuntu?
[12:32] <Guest15521> join
[12:33] <Guest15521> in which phone available in current market,i can install ubuntu?
[12:39] <NotKit> Guest15521, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/devices/
[12:41] <Guest15521> quit
[12:41] <Guest15521> ==has quit'
[13:47] <seb128> kenvandine, jgdx, hey, is there any chance that one of you could look at making u-s-s not have an hard depends on system-images? like maybe just hide the panel or display "config not supported" on system when it's not there (we are looking at adding an unity8 session to the desktop iso and system-image isn't something we want on a deb system)
[13:47] <kenvandine> seb128, sure
[13:48] <seb128> great
[13:48] <seb128> thanks
[13:48] <kenvandine> could we make it a recommends?
[13:48] <kenvandine> and we can toggle visiblity based on presence
[13:49] <kenvandine> seb128, ^^
[13:49] <seb128> Suggests please
[13:49] <kenvandine> ok
[13:49] <kenvandine> that should be fine
[13:49] <seb128> we are looking at seeding unity8-desktop-session
[13:49] <seb128> so recommends would show on component mismatch
[13:49] <kenvandine> any suggestions on how we could programatically check to see if it's there?
[13:49] <kenvandine> i don't want to try to hit it on dbus at startup
[13:50] <kenvandine> which would start the service
[13:51] <seb128> no, maybe barry has?
[13:51] <seb128> but otherwise what about just look on disk if /usr/sbin/system-image-dbus is there
[13:51] <kenvandine> a really fast way would be to check for the file
[13:52] <kenvandine> and i care about fast... don't want to slow down startup :)
[13:52] <seb128> yeah, I would just do that
[13:52] <seb128> look of the binary or the dbus config are there
[13:52] <seb128> it's a bit hackish but should do the job
[13:52] <kenvandine> i assume you need this soon right?
[13:53] <seb128> yes
[13:53] <kenvandine> oh crap
[13:53] <kenvandine> actually not that easy...
[13:53] <kenvandine> several other panels use it as well
[13:53] <seb128> well feature freeze is next week but they are aiming for beta freeze
[13:53] <seb128> oh? :-(
[13:53] <kenvandine> about and reset
[13:53] <seb128> can you maybe open a bug with a summary? ;-)
[13:53] <seb128> so we can track it
[13:54] <kenvandine> sure
[13:54] <seb128> thanks
[13:54] <kenvandine> we could hide reset as well, it doesn't make sense on desktop
[13:54] <seb128> +1
[13:54] <kenvandine> but about would just be a section of it
[13:54] <kenvandine> will open bug
[13:54] <seb128> thanks, we can discuss there
[13:54] <barry> seb128, kenvandine let me know if i can help
[13:55] <seb128> barry, hey! and thanks ;-)
[13:58] <kenvandine> seb128, bug 1612263
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, want to do the u-s-s MIR as well btw? ;-)
[14:01] <kenvandine> didn't that already get filed?
[14:01] <seb128> no
[14:01] <kenvandine> i can file it :)
[14:01] <kenvandine> just adding to that long list of packages :)
[14:04] <kenvandine> seb128, the list of depends is very long
[14:06] <seb128> kenvandine, I can help filing bugs for the depends, let's just open a bug with the list of things that are not in main
[14:06] <seb128> then if those depends have a MIR yet or not is not your issue
[14:06] <seb128> we are going to get those filed
[14:22] <dobey> i just don't understand this trello board
[14:22] <dobey> did i miss an e-mail?
[14:35] <seb128> dobey, which one?
[14:36] <dobey> seb128: the unity8 in 16.10 board you added me to
[14:36] <seb128> ah
[14:36] <seb128> sorry if that confused you
[14:37] <seb128> basically we are working on getting unity8 on the iso as an optional session
[14:37] <seb128> so we need everything MIRed
[14:37] <dobey> right, i guessed that much
[14:37] <dobey> i just don't undesrtand what i'm supposed to do in trello :)
[14:37] <seb128> dobey, speaking of, I was just about to ping you asking if you could handle the uubuntuone-credentials / pay-service ones
[14:37] <seb128> oh, nothing
[14:38] <seb128> but willcooke set up a trello board for tracking that stack of MIR
[14:38] <seb128> so I put names from people the most likely to be the right person to file the MIR bugs
[14:38] <dobey> seb128: oh, i saw that bregma moved ubuntu-touch-meta to "not needed" column, but it is needed
[14:38] <seb128> is it? talk to him I guess
[14:39] <dobey> yes, because it builds the ubuntu-sdk-libs package which contains actual files on disk
[14:39] <seb128> bregma, ^
[14:39] <dobey> the framework information files, and unity-scope-click Depends: ubuntu-sdk-libs for that
[14:40] <dobey> so we either need to say clicks aren't supported, and change that somehow, or have ubuntu-sdk-libs installed too
[14:40] <seb128> Elleo, hey, in context on ^ (I think I pinged you about that some time ago), could you look at doing the MIR for ubuntu-keyboard? it's starting being urgent (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/content-hub/+bug/1597453 is a good example if you want to copy from an existing one, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements has the details)
[14:40] <seb128> dobey, I guess clicks are not supported by the fact that we moved to packagekit1 and dropped the click plugin
[14:41] <kenvandine> seb128, bug 1612280
[14:41] <dobey> seb128: ok, then we have a much larger problem than just sdk-libs i guess
[14:41] <seb128> kenvandine, you rock, thanks!
[14:41] <kenvandine> np
[14:43] <Elleo> seb128: I'm on holiday at the moment, but can start looking into it on Monday
[14:44] <seb128> Elleo, that would be great, thanks! and enjoy your holidays ;-) (and stop looking at work IRC!)
[14:47] <kenvandine> Elleo, that's good advice from seb128 :)
[14:48] <ulrichard> Until yesterday my Aquaris phone worked, and without any special incident, mobile and Wifi connectivity are not available today. indicator-network is empty. Also in system settings, mobile and wifi are missing large parts. Did this happen to anyone else as well?
[15:17] <javier4_> abeato, Hi. I'm the one trying to port to a new device. I solved a problem with debugger executable overrided by vendor/, but now I'm stuck at:
[15:17] <javier4_> vendor/mediatek/proprietary/frameworks/base/tests/voip: Invalid LOCAL_SDK_VERSION '14' Choices are: .  Stop.
[15:18] <javier4_> I've seen that inside ubuntu build/core/config.mk, check for java 64bit are commented out. Can that be a problem?
[15:24] <javier4_> abeato, sorry again. I found out that prebuilts/sdk/ was totally lacking in buntu sources. I copied it from my aosp tree and went over to another problem. But I have a question: shouldn't be UbuntuTouch totally java-free?
[15:44] <lgp_> Hej
[15:48] <lgp_> Jag har problem med nätverksanslutningen till min Ubuntu Phone (BQ Aquaris E5 HD Ubuntu Edition)
[16:26] <abeato> javier4_, it is, maybe there is some java code leftover around though, not sure now
[16:49] <s`> sometimes on-screen keyboard just stop working for some apps
[16:49] <s`> random apps
[16:50] <s`> is it known?


  Is there anything we can help you with today?
[23:32] <hary> okey , today i have problem with install adobe air
[23:32] <tomreyn> xu-irc12w: do you have another question specific to 22.04 LTS then?
[23:32] <xu-irc12w> Yes, it appears that some shortcuts are broken for meon 22.04 LTS
[23:33] <hary> yea
[23:33] <hary> i think its bugs
[23:33] <xu-irc12w> Also: i'll be speaking as dialupmodem right now
[23:34] <dialupmodem> See, on Xubuntu 20.04.06 LTS the shortcuts work fine
[23:34] <hary> is there anything that can help me?
[23:35] <hary> very difficult to install adobe air on ubuntu
[23:35] <dialupmodem> but on 22.04 LTS some of them won't do anything at all.
[23:35] <dialupmodem> Ie:< win> + <right arrow> no longer sends the specified screen to the right of the display, but <win> + <left arrow> does
[23:35] <hary> why doesn't ubuntu have a solution for this?
[23:37] <hary> very important for me because adobe air is for installing the quran application
[23:37] <Unit193> I mean Adobe Air is proprietary software, not sure what Ubuntu is supposed to do to fix that...  You might be able to get it in Wine?
[23:37] <Unit193> !info othman
[23:38] <hary> all the same there is still a lot of bugs in the application
[23:39] <hary> characters don't fit and look weird
[23:39] <hary> some damage from this version of ubuntu i think should be fixed soon
[23:41] <hary> very disappointed, hoping Linux can be a mainstay for this need
[23:43] <tomreyn> dialupmodem: hmm, sorry, i don't use xubuntu 22.04 myself, so i'm not able to test this.
[23:45] <tomreyn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_AIR "Linux (discontinued since v2.6)"
[23:45] <Unit193> Yeah I looked and there were only options for Windows, Mac, and Android.
[23:46] <tomreyn> looks like they forgot to bury that along with flash
[23:46] <dialupmodem> It's ok, I'll probably run 20.04.6 LTS until i can get to the bottom of this
[23:47] <tomreyn> you could check the bug tracker for known bugs in this area. or the forums.
[23:49] <dialupmodem> I know this sounds stupid: but where can i find that?
[23:50] <tomreyn> not at all. there are links to (non Xubuntu specific) forums and similar Q&A sites at https://xubuntu.org/help/
[23:51] <dialupmodem> It also happens that for some reason they added an shortcut that binds the <win> key to <esc> + <ctrl> key
[23:52] <dialupmodem> which means that it's more likely to accidentally press <ctrl> <win> and <esc> unintentionally
[23:52] <Unit193> https://github.com/Xubuntu/xubuntu-default-settings/blob/master/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-keyboard-shortcuts.xml#L75
[23:53] <dialupmodem> So I can change that manually on my 22.04 LTS?
[23:54] <dialupmodem> Well, I'm off to do that
[23:54] <dialupmodem> thanks
[23:55] <Unit193> You should use the settings editor to set it, but you can check what's in ~/.config/xfce/ to compare...
[23:55] <tomreyn> this sounds like something else is wrong, no? "they added an shortcut that binds the <win> key to <esc> + <ctrl> key"
[23:55] <tomreyn> but anyways, they're gone
[23:57] <Unit193> If you bind only the winkey, then you can't use the winkey for anything else because Xfce triggers on keydown.
[23:58] <tomreyn> sure that makes sense. maybe they did so and forgot
[23:58] <Unit193> There's that one tool that people use to hack around that, seems to work.  That also could be what he means by that. :3