[01:34] <cooloney> asac: i think you are in the email loop of my ethernet ping email to fsl
[01:34] <cooloney> i CCed you and oliver
[01:35] <asac> cooloney: hmm. ok
[01:35] <asac> thanks
[01:40] <cooloney> asac: no problem. you work so late, are you still in portland TZ?
[01:40] <asac> hehe
[01:40] <asac> no
[01:40] <asac> off now ;)
[01:40] <asac> had to fiddle with specs
[01:57] <cooloney> asac: good night,
[08:23] <cooloney> lool: just dowloaded your zImage in my qemu, it works.
[08:23] <cooloney> lool: but my zImage built from latest lucid tree, fails to mount root device
[09:01] <lool> cooloney: Ah
[09:01] <lool> cooloney: Did you build it from the lucid source package, or the lucid tip?
[09:02] <lool> cooloney: Could you try http://people.canonical.com/~apw/misc/arm/linux-image-2.6.32-13-versatile_2.6.32-13.18~masterapw1_armel.deb ?
[09:02] <lool> cooloney: unpack the .deb with dpkg-deb -x linux-image-2.6.32-13-versatile_2.6.32-13.18~masterapw1_armel.deb linux-versatile/ or something like that
[09:02] <lool> then use linux-versatile/boot/vmlinuz*
[09:03]  * apw looks blearily
[09:03] <persia> apw: Just an incidental strike because you host kernel packages directly
[09:04] <cooloney> lool: i think, i messed up my build system.
[09:04] <lool> cooloney: Could be
[09:04] <cooloney> lool: i rebuilt the kernel from latest lucid
[09:04] <cooloney> lool: it can find the rootfs now
[09:04] <cooloney> lool: thanks
[09:05] <apw> cooloney, pretty sure i've not changed the tip significantly since that build
[09:26] <lool> I was thinking we should build daily rootfs-es just like we have daily UEC images
[09:28] <persia> ogra was talking about having a way to script rootstock to do just that.
[09:29] <persia> There's still the issue of kernel feature support, etc. but that's separable.
[09:50] <lool> persia: What issue?
[09:50] <lool> I was thinking of reusing their image building infrastructure actually
[09:50] <lool> patching vmbuilder to create armel images
[09:51] <lool> The only major difference is bootloader on hard disk versus kernel on host
[09:51] <lool> I'd love to have kexec working to hide this fact completely
[09:52] <persia> Image build infrastructure also works.  The main issue with kernels is that some of our userspace depends on features not available in some kernels.
[09:53] <persia> By using the distro kernel (or rcn-ee's kernel), one ends up with the features.  Otherwise, one may not.
[09:53]  * persia doesn't know about other kernels)
[09:58] <lool> persia: Oh yeah; in theory we should be using one in-disto kernel for each image build
[09:58] <lool> persia: In practice this will only be possible with lucid
[09:58] <lool> For <= karmic, perhaps we can provide backports?
[09:58] <lool> I'm not interested in redoing the work on an older kernel, but it would probably be doable to provide backports for karmic in a PPA or simply to use lucid kernel (a bit ugly though)
[09:59] <persia> Will it be possible with lucid?  We're nearing FF, and I haven't seen that stuff land yet.
[09:59] <lool> I managed to boot karmic userspace with the lucid versatile kernel BTW
[09:59] <lool> persia: Well it's in the git tree
[09:59] <lool> So hopefully this will be uploaded soon
[09:59] <persia> Ooh!  That's excellent news.
[09:59] <lool> Besides, it's not like a versatile is a new feature; we're just fixing it  ;-)
[09:59] <lool> The biggest problem ATM is that lucid glibc breaks gtk+ apps
[10:00] <persia> heh.
[10:00] <persia> That certainly has some potential for regression.
[10:00] <lool> I don't think I will be able to research this; I mailed doko to ask whether he had any advice on this, or on trying out backports / rebuilds of eglibc, but it's a best effort thing
[10:00] <lool> I found a workaround to the glibc issue, but I don't know whether it's 100% correct
[10:01] <lool> Either set G_SLICE=always-malloc, or MALLOC_CHECK_=0
[10:01] <lool> Setting G_SLICE is safe, I'm less sure about the second one
[10:02] <lool> It would be nice if someone could chase that bug; it might turn out to be a toolchain, or linux or qemu or glibc bug
[10:02] <persia> Doesn't that disable checking for available memory when allocating?
[10:03] <lool> MALLOC_CHECK?
[10:03] <persia> Yeah.
[10:03] <lool> Don't think so, I think it disables the sanity checks in glibc which do things like checking around your buffer, or checks for double free etc.
[10:03] <lool> It's more of a security feature as I see it
[10:03] <persia> Does Qt also break, or just gtk+?
[10:03] <lool> Either it's broken, or there is a really dangerous bug, I can't tell
[10:04] <lool> I don't know about Qt, didn't try
[10:04] <lool> That's why I would personally start with only setting G_SLICE as a workaround
[10:04] <lool> Because that just changes the memory allocator of glib with another safe one
[10:05] <persia> I was just thinking of ways that one might determine whether it's a gtk+ or glibc issue.
[10:09] <lool> I don't think it's a glib issue because it's only in qemu/versatile
[10:09] <lool> But I could be wrong
[10:09] <lool> It might be that it gets the toolchain calls wrong
[10:09] <lool> Also, it only happens with a particular request size
[10:44] <ogra> lool, why are you duplicating work ?
[10:54] <lool> ogra: Sorry?
[10:54] <lool> We discussed a lot of stuff above, so please be more specific
[10:54]  * persia suspects it's a rootstock vs. vm-builder things.
[10:55] <ogra> right
[10:55] <ogra> lool, you seem to reimplement exactly what will be in rootstock by A3
[10:56] <lool> Err I could argue that rootstock is a duplication of vm-builder
[10:56] <lool> (Which itself duplicates part of d-i, but that's a bit far fetched)
[10:56] <ogra> lool, well, why not use vmbuilder as a backend then, the plan for rootstock is to actually use it for image building with L+1
[10:56] <lool> I was proposing to reuse the vm-builder daily image build infrastructure instead of coming up with a new one for rootstock
[10:57] <ogra> and i'd love (and was hoping) to have your help on the code ... thats why i gave you full commit access to the branch etc
[10:57] <ogra> if you feel vmbuilder is a better backend feel free to change it
[10:57] <lool> You effectively received help from me before doing that
[10:57] <ogra> starting a second project from scratch feels like a huge waste to me
[10:58] <persia> The backend now is debootstrap + apt-get?
[10:58] <ogra> yes
[10:58] <ogra> plus oem-config for the system setup
[10:58] <lool> How is it from scratch??  vm-builder has been around for much longer than rootstock; I mentionned supporting armel even before you started rootstock
[10:59] <lool> I also discussed the design issues with you at the Dublin sprint
[10:59] <lool> Why reinventing "set hostname, set password" etc. was not a good reuse of our debconf stuff
[10:59] <ogra> thats why oem-config is used now
[17:46] <mbligh> which bootloader do you generally use for ARM?
[17:47] <ogra> whatever bootloader the board needs :)
[17:47] <ogra> it really depends on the board
[17:47] <lool> mbligh: hey Martin; we use either U-Boot or RedBoot
[17:47] <lool> mbligh: For dove boards, we only have U-Boot support from the vendor, for imx51 boards we get both RedBoot and U-Boot support with different features
[17:48] <mbligh> ok, any idea where the config file lives / what the flashing procedure for a new kernel is?
[17:48] <mbligh> grep -r vmlinuz /etc turns up nothing
[17:48] <lool> mbligh: That depends of the board; where is the kernel stored?
[17:48] <lool> Is this qualcomm?
[17:48] <mbligh> it's in /boot
[17:48] <mbligh> mmm. can't say ;-)
[17:48] <lool> Qualcomm has multiple stages of bootloaders, so it's a tad complex, and there are signatures at various levels
[17:49] <lool> mbligh: Recent versions of U-Boot and RedBoot can load files such as kernels or boot instructions from a filesystem
[17:49] <lool> I would expect that's your case, but perhaps only the kernel lives on a fs
[17:49] <lool> mbligh: Check your BSP docs; there's certainly some info on writing your own kernel
[17:50] <ogra> and surely some doc about the used bootloader
[17:51]  * ogra hands asac a beer some chips and and https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/2.4.3+dfsg-1ubuntu2/+build/1495864
[17:52] <lool> ogra: Does mono actually work properly in the recent versions?
[17:52] <ogra> lool, no idea, it didnt build until some mins ago, the last version we had came from karmic into lucid
[17:53] <asac> lool: i think a testsuite is run in the build
[17:53] <asac> and the mcs compiler also is mono ...
[17:53] <asac> maybe it doesnt work fully, but it probably should work somewhat
[17:53] <lool> asac: You might recall the weird banshee bugs
[17:53] <ogra> which are still open :)
[17:53] <asac> no. that was before my time. i wanted to check if it now is better
[17:53] <asac> i think we might want to disable jit on arm
[17:53] <asac> --with-jit=no
[17:54] <asac> i will try that in a ppa if we still have the problems
[17:54]  * ogra is happy as long as the apps we ship are installable at least ...
[17:54] <ogra> everything beyond is a bonus
[17:55] <asac> ogra: will you give some love the ftbfs list and give them back for a bit ?
[17:55] <asac> i have a call and would check afterwards what can be retried
[17:55] <armin76> dmart: get me a mwc2010 pass!
[17:55] <ogra> as soon as its published, yes
[17:55] <asac> thx
[17:55] <ogra> but publisher will still take a while
[17:57] <lool> ogra: http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/arm/build-arm-rootfs was an early version of rootstock, right?
[17:57] <ogra> lool, yep
[17:57] <lool> I'll drop references to it from the wiki; I don't think it's a good idea to still point people at it
[17:57] <ogra> lool, btw, do you think the lucid versatile kernel could work with jaunty qemu ?
[17:58] <ogra> lool, where will you point to ?
[17:59] <ogra> there was no rootstock in jaunty and i havent tested it on jaunty since ages, build-arm-rootfs works for jaunty users
[17:59] <lool> ogra: it would be nice if you could test the new versatile kernels with jaunty qemu-system-arm
[17:59] <lool> I will point to rootstock for now
[17:59] <ogra> ok
[17:59] <lool> It would also be nice to provide backports of rootstock
[17:59] <ogra> i will do so for karmic
[18:00] <ogra> not sure for jaunty since it wasnt available there
[18:00] <lool> I personally would prefer supporting a single tool with the latest Ubuntu release and then perhaps investing in backports rather than supporting different tools for multiple Ubuntu versions
[18:00] <lool> What wasn't available in jaunty?
[18:00] <ogra> rootstock
[18:00] <lool> I was thinking of backports, so we could make anything available anyway
[18:00] <ogra> yeah, thats surely possible
[18:01] <lool> e.g. backports of debootstrap, rootstock, qemu-kvm, linux
[18:01] <persia> can rootstock backport?  I thought it depended on features not available until karmic.
[18:01] <ogra> persia, the code is that bloated because it still works without qemu-arm-static
[18:01] <persia> debootstrap is commonly backported, and tends to go through smoothly.  linux is almost never backported: that probably needs a PPA.  I'm unsure about qemu-kvm.
[18:02] <ogra> qem-system-arm is all that counts
[18:02] <ogra> and that used to work in jaunty
[18:02] <lool> Concerning linux, it's probably the one we can avoid backporting in any case since it's typically not installed on the system
[18:02] <ogra> the question is if the new versatile will work
[18:02] <lool> It's more of a companion/helper to the rootfs
[18:02] <ogra> i dont want to keep the different kernels in the script but unify on the archive version
[18:03] <persia> So just get debootstrap backported (can be very quick if people are willing to test), and then backport rootstock.
[18:03] <ogra> right
[18:04] <ogra> but its essential to know if the kernel works with qemu
[18:04] <ogra> i want to reduce the bloat of the script if possible
[18:04] <ogra> given that all the lucid features add a lot of extra code
[18:05] <persia> Well, backport the current version to karmic and jaunty, and then trim it down for lucid fowards.
[18:05] <ogra> i wonde if i should drop all the locale handling ... oem-config can care for that
[18:07] <ogra> in case of the debconf frontend i could even drop the tasksel stuff
[18:07] <ogra> not sure about the gtk/qt UIs
[18:16] <Hoonse> hi guys
[18:23] <persia> Hey Hoonse
[18:23] <lool> Hi
[18:24] <Hoonse> is anyone here who set up ubuntu on the beagleboard sucessfully? =)
[18:24] <ogra> several people i think
[18:24] <persia> There's some instructions on the beagle wiki that are up to date
[18:24]  * persia hunts
[18:24] <ogra> Hoonse, http://elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu
[18:25] <persia> Yeah, that's it :)
[18:25] <ogra> there should even be test images
[18:25] <Hoonse> yeah i read this already but for this you have to compile ubuntu for your own right?
[18:25] <persia> No.
[18:25] <Hoonse> no?
[18:25] <persia> You have to create your own rootfs only.
[18:26] <persia> But you can do that from precompiled binaries.
[18:26] <Hoonse> the rootfs is the "folder tree" ?
[18:26] <lool> Yeah
[18:26] <persia> roughly, yeah
[18:26] <lool> the bits and bytes!
[18:26] <ogra> err, that wikipage even has ready made images
[18:26] <ogra> you dont need to compile anything :)
[18:26] <Hoonse> can i use for example the synaptic packet manager for installing things?
[18:26] <lool> Some people actually believe the rootfs is the soul of your board
[18:27] <Hoonse> lol
[18:27] <Hoonse> "the thing where the magic happens" =)
[18:27] <ogra> Hoonse, yes, you can use synaptic/apt-get or aptitude
[18:28] <persia> Most stuff should just work.  IF something doesn't work, we'd appreciate help getting it fixed :)
[18:28] <Hoonse> but i think the "normal" programms that you use for the pc arent working. only a few right?
[18:28] <persia> Anything that works for any other architecture *should* work.
[18:28] <persia> There are a couple things that just won't, like WINE, but those are exceptions.
[18:28] <Hoonse> oh my god that would be great...
[18:29] <persia> That's the point :)
[18:29] <Hoonse> i think i only need a ftpd a httpd and a java runtime env...
[18:29] <ogra> persia, if lool ever fixes qemu to run on armel you could theoretically run wine in qemu-user *g*
[18:30] <persia> ogra: That's advanced hackery though.  The reason WINE doesn't work is that there's a check in the build scripts that gets mad if it's running on armel.
[18:30] <Hoonse> i think i will try this now =) the only problem is that my only monitor is plugged into my beagle...
[18:30] <persia> WINE does the same thing for powerpc, which annoys me, because I used to run windows on a powerpc.
[18:30] <ogra> persia, i men the x86 version of wine :)
[18:31] <ogra> *mean
[18:31] <persia> ogra: And that's the advanced hackery bit :)
[18:31] <Hoonse> can i do this via ssh plugged the mmc card into my server?!?
[18:31] <ogra> just some binfmt magic :)
[18:32] <persia> Hoonse: Most people create the rootfs on their host workstation.  If you're just doing a server, you might try installing openssh server, and then logging in over ssh and using DHCP to set the IP, rather than connecting a monitor.
[18:32] <persia> ogra: The binfmt magic isn't the hard part.  The hard part is getting the binary installed in the first place.
[18:32] <ogra> details :P
[18:33] <persia> heh
[18:33]  * persia watches the publisher impatiently
[18:34]  * ogra is eager for the first blog entries from people running IE under wine on armel netbooks *g*
[18:34] <ogra> probably in 12.04 or so :)
[18:38] <rcn-ee> ogra, did you catch the blog/youtube where someone ran max os (powerpc) thru pear on a n900?
[18:38] <rcn-ee> max/ mac...
[18:38] <ogra> no, cool :)
[18:39] <rcn-ee> http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/31/mac-os-x-10-3-installed-on-nokia-n900-via-pearpc-barely-usable/
[18:44] <ogra> haha, i should try that on mine :)
[18:44] <ogra> lool, you missed to remove a sudo qemu call :)
[18:44]  * ogra fixes
[18:50] <ogra> OMG ...
[18:50] <ogra> i just ran rootstock -s gdm ...
[18:50] <persia> And it worked?
[18:50] <ogra> that installs half the desktop
[18:50] <persia> Well, yeah.
[18:50] <jds_> so i just did the formatting stuff for the mmc card... can i take the "normal" MLO uImage and u-bin files from the angström image or do i have to take "special" files?
[18:50] <ogra> why the heck does gdm pull in nautilus?
[18:51] <Hoonse> u-boot not u-bin sorry
[18:52] <ogra> arent they linked from the wiki ?
[18:52]  * ogra thought they are
[18:53] <persia> ogra: gnome-session is the link.
[18:53] <ogra> persia, i thought there was a shrunk down gnome-session
[18:53]  * persia checks
[18:53] <ogra> gnome-session-core or -bin or so
[18:53] <persia> Right. gnome-sessoin-bin
[18:53]  * persia looks again
[18:54] <persia> I don't see it immediately then.
[18:55] <ogra> i hope my image size is enough ...
[18:55]  * ogra doesnt want to do that again ... its just to test the logic for installing oem-config-gtk if gdm is installed
[18:56]  * persia invokes the heavy artillery
[18:57] <ogra> i think i'll forbid ll useradd stuff in rootstock in favor of oem-config
[18:57] <ogra> up to now you can still use --user --password ...
[18:57] <ogra> can anyone tell me a reason why to keep it ?
[18:57] <ogra> (gievn its really insecure)
[18:58] <rcn-ee> ogra, what would oem-config bring up on first boot then? would it require a gui? i'm thinking console installs...
[18:58] <persia> rcn-ee: There's a debconf front-end
[18:58] <ogra> it brings up a debconf ui
[18:59] <ogra> looks like debian-installer
[18:59] <ogra> but only asks for username, passwd, language and timezone
[18:59] <rcn-ee> okay, that works.... wasn't sure.. ;)
[18:59] <persia> ogra: I think it's an issue with dependency resolution.  I'm *definitely* getting it through gnome-panel->gnome-session->nautilus
[18:59] <ogra> and then removes itself
[18:59]  * persia blames the lack of versioned provides
[18:59] <Hoonse> in the wiki there are "usefull packages" listed what should i do with dem?!?
[19:00] <persia> Hoonse: Install them on your workstation :)
[19:00] <rcn-ee> Hoonse, you would install them thru the '--seed '
[19:00] <ogra> or afterwards in the booted system
[19:00] <Hoonse> yeah but i need at least the wifi drivers do get this thing to the www
[19:01] <rcn-ee> the key ones are linux-firmware and wireless-tools for wifi devices... since ubuntu's repo gives us the firmware...
[19:01] <Hoonse> please excuse my strange english skills... normally i speak german =)
[19:03] <ogra> your skills are fine ...
[19:04] <Hoonse> lol thanks
[19:04] <Hoonse> when i spt-get install the xfce4 has this any affect on my PC UBUNTU system?!? i am a little afraid right now =)
[19:05] <ogra> no, it wont touch your host system
[19:11] <Hoonse> hmmm the rootstock script is running... everything seems awesome =)
[19:12] <ogra> it will take a while, get a beer and some dinner :)
[19:12] <Hoonse> =)
[19:14] <Hoonse> when everything is done i want to put the beagle in my roomba vacuumcleaner with a webcam and wifi. prog a java tool or something you can enter via a web browser to controll the roomba...  i think i will create a domain like vacmyhouse.com or something so that people can clean my home =)
[19:14] <ogra> heh
[19:16] <cwillu_at_work> ooh, rcn-ee
[19:16] <cwillu_at_work> I has kernel config options for you!
[19:16] <rcn-ee> hey cwillu_at_work
[19:16] <cwillu_at_work> if only my server wasn't wedged right now :p
[19:17] <rcn-ee> ouch... i know that feeling, it's my day off and i'm rotating new harddrives on the beagle farm.. .;)
[19:17] <Hoonse> hmmm my girlfriend is screaming right now... i think i should go to her before she is making a scene AGAIN... -.- brb when script is finished^^
[19:48]  * ogra wonders what hapens in ubuntu-system-service's unpack phase that reliably locks up his VM
[19:52] <persia> strace it :)
[19:52] <ogra> i cant
[19:52] <ogra> its inside a VM
[19:52] <persia> And you can't install strace in the vm, and strace dpkg while unpacking?
[19:52] <ogra> i just want to get that codepath tested damned
[19:53] <ogra> that would require any kind of option to get *inside* the VM
[19:53] <ogra> the VM is spawned by rootstock as backend
[19:53] <ogra> i cant easily get to it
[19:54] <ogra> i suspect its the bug that lool just reasearched (and i think fixed too) with libc
[19:54] <ogra> it simply takes 40min to get to that point, that the annoying part ... but i think i'll kill the build now
[19:55] <persia> Ah.  Yeah.  It would be painful to untangle that sufficiently.
[19:55] <Hoonse> holy sh this takes really a while...
[19:56]  * ogra just goes back to the other kernel and tries again
[19:56] <ogra> Hoonse, yes, under which host release do you run it ?
[19:56] <Hoonse> i think 9.04
[19:56] <ogra> yeah, that was really slow
[19:57] <ogra> karmic (9.10) wa a lot faster
[19:57] <Hoonse> seems so =)
[20:09] <Hoonse> hmmm i got some warnings... is this normal?
[20:11] <persia> Hoonse: What sort of warning?
[20:11] <Hoonse> Setting up wdiff (0.5-18) ...
[20:11] <Hoonse> install-info: warning: maintainer scripts should not call install-info anymore,
[20:11] <Hoonse> install-info: warning: this is handled now by a dpkg trigger provided by the
[20:11] <Hoonse> install-info: warning: install-info package; package wdiff should be updated.
[20:11] <ogra> depends on the warnings :)
[20:11] <Hoonse> this sort of...
[20:12] <persia> Hoonse: You can safely ignore those.  Those are bugs in the packages being installed.
[20:12] <Hoonse> great its cleaning up =)
[20:12] <Hoonse> aaaand done yeah
[20:12] <persia> If you're feeling especially adventerous, you can try to fix the bugs, but I'd suggest leaving them alone unless they are causing you issues.
[20:13] <asac> ogra: how is the mono give back going?
[20:13] <asac> someone needs to take over? whats the status?
[20:13] <ogra> asac, i simply gave back everything
[20:14] <ogra> lest see what sticks to the wall and what falls off
[20:14] <ogra> *lets
[20:14] <asac> right :-P
[20:14] <ogra> i'll do a second run tomorrow
[20:14] <asac> do you get emails for give backs?
[20:14] <asac> hmm. i think so
[20:14] <ogra> yep
[20:14] <ogra> for failures at least
[20:14] <asac> coool. then be accurate ;)
[20:14] <asac> talk to you tomorrow
[20:14] <ogra> i'll check the ftbfs list tomorrow morning and we'll see
[20:14] <persia> One only gets give-back fail emails if one was an uploader.
[20:14] <ogra> ejoy your evening
[20:15] <ogra> persia, well, the ftbfs list will have them
[20:15] <persia> Indeed.
[20:16] <ogra> most of it still sits in the queue
[20:16] <ogra> gnome-sharp2 is currently building
[20:17] <lool> ogra: I wasn't done with the wiki page, just went for dinner
[20:17] <ogra> ah
[20:31] <therealgalen> does anybody know of any ARM CPUs with compression offload or accelleration?
[20:34] <Hoonse> are these boot fixup for 9.10 to do or not (i am talking from the wiki page =))
[20:35] <rcn-ee> Hoonse, just 9.10 for the moment... (unless you've installed a backup battery on your c3/c4..)
[20:35] <rcn-ee> lucid (10.04) when released, hopefully won't require the fixup.. ;)
[20:35] <Hoonse> k then i really should do this... =)
[20:35] <persia> therealgalen: Lots of them have DSPs available, but you'd have to check carefully to see if any of those vendors have kernels that do that sort of offloading.
[20:36] <cwillu_at_work> rcn-ee, who doesn't install the battery on a c3/c4?
[20:37] <rcn-ee> me.. ;)
[20:37] <rcn-ee> and i have 3 other's beagles couple bx's and c2 with out the battery hookup..
[20:38] <ogra> rcn-ee, whats that fixup ? anything we can pull into the distro to help ?
[20:38] <rcn-ee> it's the util-linux... missing rtc date, you had mentioned a fix was heading for lucid...
[20:39] <ogra> ah, k
[20:40] <rcn-ee> my fingers are crossed that debian picks that up the same fix for squeeze too... then no one would have noticed it was an issue... ;)
[20:41] <Hoonse> hmmm there is no ./tmp/etc/e2fsck.conf file on my image ?!?
[20:46] <rcn-ee> Hoonse, that's correct.. by default the file doesn't exist...
[20:47] <rcn-ee> by default everything works perfectly.. ;)
[20:47] <Hoonse> i have to make it right?
[20:47] <rcn-ee> correct...
[20:47] <Hoonse> thanks
[20:53] <Hoonse> when i try to umount the ext partition if the mmc card it says the device is busy but the "writing led" isnt blinking... i am afraid to all again when i just stick it out...
[20:54] <Hoonse> -.- i was ON the partition...
[20:54] <Hoonse> sorry
[20:55] <Hoonse> so guys its finished
[20:55] <Hoonse> please cross your fingers =)
[20:56] <Hoonse> plugged in...
[20:56] <ogra> nothing to cross ... it will just work :)
[20:56] <Hoonse> woooohoooo i see tux on the screen *muahahahaaa*
[20:57] <Hoonse> holy sh... it works!!!
[20:57] <ogra> :)
[20:57] <Hoonse> thanks guys!!!
[21:02] <Hoonse> hmmm i just got a terminal on a blue backscreen?!?
[21:02] <Hoonse> but the login was at a gui...
[21:03] <persia> Hoonse: Well, what desktop environment did you install?
[21:03] <ogra> i.e. what did you specify for the -s option
[21:03] <Hoonse> xfce4?!?
[21:04] <rcn-ee> ahh Hoonse, by default it goes to 'xterm' you need to change it in the drop down on the bottom...
[21:04] <rcn-ee> (at the login screen)
[21:04] <Hoonse> k *reboot*
[21:04] <rcn-ee> 'exit' should do it..
[21:05] <Hoonse> yeah thats the other option =)
[21:06] <rcn-ee> that would be a nother good fixup to list on the wiki.. just remove/move the xsession file...
[21:06] <Hoonse> there is no drag down?!?
[21:06] <Hoonse> there is login restart and shutdown...
[21:07] <rcn-ee> you need to click on your login name... or type it.. then the theme changes...
[21:07] <Hoonse> oh there it is... sorry
[21:07] <rcn-ee> i know.. it's weird... if you don't have a 'theme' installed it's impossible... ;)
[21:11] <Hoonse> is there a tool to setup the wifi device?
[21:12] <rcn-ee> network manager, once installed.... but you'll have to do... "sudo ifconfig -a", "sudo iwconfig wlanX essid "xxx"", "sudo dhclient wlanX"
[21:13] <Hoonse> iwconfig not found...
[21:14] <rcn-ee> that was "wireless-tools" one of the usefull packages... you have to download, copy, dpkg it..
[21:15] <rcn-ee> http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/w/wireless-tools/  it shouldn't have any dependices, dpkg will warn you...
[21:15] <ogra> under karmic qnd lucid you can just chroot into the SD card from your x86 host :)
[21:15] <ogra> an just install NM
[21:15] <ogra> qemu-arm-static ftw !
[21:16] <rcn-ee> yeah, that would be easier.. and while there, add the nework manager gui for xfce4, not sure on the name.. ;)
[21:16] <ogra> yeah
[21:16] <ogra> everything is so much easier in karmic and lucid
[21:17] <ogra> imagine lucid+1 .... it will just work on its own, we wont even need to do anything anymore :)
[21:19] <Hoonse> whats the difference between wireless-tools 29-1ubuntu... and wireless-tools 29-1.1ubuntu...
[21:19] <Hoonse> wich should i download?
[21:25] <lool> Cool, linux uploaded
[21:26] <lool> Hopefully a working versatile in lucid soon
[21:26] <ogra> lool, doe sthat have the fix for the eglibc issues ?
[21:26] <ogra> or do we need another libc upload for them ?
[21:36] <Hoonse> i have downloaded the files to my beagle desktop but i cant find any option in apt-get to install from disk
[21:36] <lool> ogra: I don't have any fix for the regression caused by libc6 update
[21:37] <ogra> meh
[21:37] <rcn-ee> Hoonse, from disk, use "sudo dpkg -i <file>"
[21:37] <ogra> then we wont have working versatile
[21:39] <rcn-ee> opps, thats why mkfs.ext4 took so long on my server.. usb 1.1 port...
[21:39] <Hoonse> hmmm i have to take the armel.deb files right?
[21:41] <ogra> 1.1 ? ouch
[21:41] <rcn-ee> Hoonse, that's correct...
[21:41] <Hoonse> no i took 2ubuntu...
[21:42] <Hoonse> wireless-tools_29-2ubuntu6_armel.deb
[21:42] <ogra> looks ok
[21:42] <Hoonse> it says "packet damaged"
[21:43] <Hoonse> i translatet this...
[21:43] <rcn-ee> sounds like it didn't copy all the way....
[21:44] <Hoonse> k i will do it again...
[21:45] <ogra> Hoonse, https://launchpad.net/~ogra/+archive/ppa/+files/qemu-arm-eabi_0.10.5-0ubuntu1_i386.deb install that on your x86 machine
[21:46] <ogra> Hoonse, then you can mount your SD to /mnt and do: sudo chroot /mnt apt-get install network-manager
[21:46] <Hoonse> via ssh too?
[21:46] <ogra> on your intel machine
[21:46] <ogra> you can do chroot via ssh too indeed, yes
[21:49] <Hoonse> i have istalled this
[21:49] <Hoonse> now?
[21:49] <ogra> now you can execute stuff on the SD
[21:49] <ogra> through the chroot command
[21:50] <ogra> mount it to /mnt and run sudo chroot /mnt
[21:50] <ogra> that gives you a shell on the SD
[21:50] <ogra> and then you can just install network-manager using apt
[21:51] <Hoonse> ok now i am confused..
[21:51] <Hoonse> i have mounted the ext filesystem from the mmc card
[21:51] <ogra> right
[21:51] <Hoonse> yes but what do i do with chroot?
[21:51] <rcn-ee> cwillu_at_work, the ehci looks good on the c4 with (tested <IP_ADDRESS>-x7.1 and <IP_ADDRESS>-x8.0), using the same stress test i use for the musb port..  i really need to find another way to break it...
[21:51] <ogra> now you do: sudo chroot /mountpoint
[21:52] <cwillu_at_work> rcn-ee, troubles?
[21:52] <Hoonse> angus@serv0r:~/Desktop$ sudo chroot /media/ext
[21:52] <Hoonse> chroot: cannot run command `/bin/bash': No such file or directory
[21:52] <cwillu_at_work> rcn-ee, or are things just working properly and you're sad?
[21:52] <rcn-ee> nope, not troubles.. everything works good.. so it's a good sign..
[21:52] <cwillu_at_work> :)
[21:53] <ogra> Hoonse, make sure to mount it manually in /mnt or something, the automount in /media wont work
[21:53] <cwillu_at_work> I had a weird crash yesterday, don't think it was usb related though
[21:53] <cwillu_at_work> I've got better blinken lights now so I'll know for sure the next time
[21:54] <cwillu_at_work> rcn-ee, I don't have it handy, but have you tripped over any omap-pm kernel config options?
[21:54] <cwillu_at_work> was wanting to play with the thermal monitor a bit, which apparently requires a specific omap pm module;  additionally, this allows for bumping up the voltage when clocking a beagle at 720mhz, which I wanted to try re: the weird crash
[21:55] <Hoonse> i have manually mounted it on /mnt/ext
[21:55] <ogra> ok
[21:55] <ogra> and there is /mnt/ext/bin ?
[21:55] <Hoonse> yes
[21:56] <cwillu_at_work> Hoonse, typically you mount things directly on /mnt;  use /media for submounts
[21:56] <Hoonse> but it seems there is no bash...
[21:56] <ogra> Hoonse, so the chroot command should work (at least if you are on a ubuntu machine)
[21:56] <ogra> ls /mnt/ext/bin/bash ?
[21:56] <Hoonse> yes
[21:56] <cwillu_at_work> Hoonse, you did chroot /mnt/ext or /media/ext?
[21:57] <Hoonse> and there is a bin/bash
[21:57] <Hoonse> wtf?!?
[21:57] <ogra> might be a bug in the qemu-arm-eabi package but it *should* work
[21:58] <ogra> its a pre release package i rolled under jaunty, the proper one went into karmic and is a bit different
[21:59] <Hoonse> do i have to start qemu or something?
[21:59] <ogra> nope
[22:00] <ogra> its an automatic wrapper that wraps around armel binaries if you execute them
[22:00] <ogra> you can try to restart binfmt-support
[22:00] <Hoonse> ?
[22:00] <ogra> sudo /etc/init.d/binfmt-support restart
[22:00] <ogra> thats where it hooks into
[22:00] <rcn-ee> cwillu_at_work, yeap, now that musb/ehci seem to work, i really want to start enableing the power managment stuff..
[22:00] <ogra> and then try again
[22:01] <Hoonse> nope doesnt work
[22:01] <cwillu_at_work> oh, goodie :)
[22:01] <Hoonse> strange
[22:01] <ogra> sorry then, might be an issue with the package
[22:01] <rcn-ee> crap... anyone know a good source for 3.3 volt pci usb adapters... my server is just a tad bit old only usb 1.1...
[22:02] <ogra> Hoonse, sudo dpkg -r qemu-arm-eabi
[22:02] <cwillu_at_work> I've got a good computer store locally, it's been a while since I've had to buy any standard parts online :)
[22:02] <ogra> Hoonse, try the karmic one http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/q/qemu-kvm/qemu-arm-static_0.11.0-0ubuntu6.3_i386.deb
[22:02] <cwillu_at_work> ugh, 3.3 volts?
[22:03] <rcn-ee> yeap... 3.3... full length pci....
[22:03] <rcn-ee> i think i can get away with a very low profile and left angle pci convertor..
[22:04] <ogra> are these still built ?
[22:04] <rcn-ee> it's an old amd-8111 dual core opteron i got surplus a couple years back..
[22:04] <ogra> i meant the PCI->USB cards :)
[22:05] <rcn-ee> i have a couple, 5 volt, it doesn't look like anyone built them for 3.3... (just parrell/firewire stuff)
[22:06] <Hoonse> i think i will try this tomorrow again...
[22:06] <rcn-ee> okay found a 3.3.. newegg loves me..
[22:06] <Hoonse> i have to stand up at 5 am because it snows like hell
[22:07] <Hoonse> by guys and a big thanks for all your help
[22:07] <Hoonse> see u tomorrow
[23:33] <ogra> *** glibc detected *** apt-get: double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x000c7160 ***
[23:33] <ogra> hrm
[23:33] <ogra> lool, ^^^ thats with the karmic kernel
[23:33] <ogra> (but i guess you tested that when nailing it down on libc)


[00:22] <maco> cool! the upstream author of a package ive been watching for a year just joined lp today


[00:11] <cranberry> Hello! I am trying to install a systemd service, but the unit file is causing issues. Would someone mind looking at the unit file and the systemctl enable output? https://pasta.lysergic.dev/?fbe34c06e139f429#AfyrrY7ZhwGadnPMi7YG8AJhGCQBvas274sgP8c8ueAj
[00:11] <cranberry> From what I know RequiredBy= and Also= and Alias= should not be necessary, at least they werent in the past for me
[00:55] <sarnold> (handled elsewhere :)
[01:00] <cranberry> Confirmed
[07:29] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:39] <icey> hey rafaeldtinoco: any progress or anything I can help with regarding the OpenStack package set?
[11:49] <rafaeldtinoco> ivey: morning! I'm phasing out lots of bugs to someone else as I start in a new project on Monday so I have it in my queue for sometime now. It's is very likely that I'll end up doing it on the weekend. Sorry for the delay there, but end of cycle didn't help much as well.
[11:57] <icey> rafaeldtinoco: thanks for the update! timing so late in the cyclec certainly makes it more difficult!
[19:42] <hays> AWS claims that their AMIs are 'optimized' but even the Linux 2 AMI is super old Centos derivative. is there any way to know how true that claim is compared to a recent Ubuntu LTS image. like--its they are backporting patches into CentOS sure I could see its maybe better than running Centos. But Ubuntu has a much newer kernel.
[21:35] <bindiboi> I have a physical SSD with Ubuntu 18.04 server on it, encrypted with whatever the installation offers you with (luksencrypt?). Is it possible to browse the contents with a windows machine using usb to sata?
[21:37] <teward> bindi: I don't think Windows can read/decrypt the LUKS encryption since I think that's done with LVM (and Windows doesn't speak LVM)
[21:37] <teward> bindi: so the safe bet is "no" that's not going to be doable with a Windows system
[21:37] <teward> (I haven't tested/confirmed though, but this is my 'gut instinct')
[21:38] <sarnold> bindi: probably installing ubuntu into a VM on windows, then using cryptsetup open command ...
[21:39] <bindi> I thought about VM, I even thought about booting it physically to reduce the chances messing up (something funky with the usb-to-sata for example)
[21:39] <bindi> but it's been a project for over a year now, some nice2have data but not exactly important :D
[21:39] <sarnold> good job gtting started on outstanding projects :)
[21:41] <bindi> then there are utilities like disk2vhd, i wonder if it works with usb to sata
[23:27] <JanC> bindi: there are/were implementations of LUKS for (some versions of) Windows
[23:27] <JanC> so in theory it might be possible, if they still work with your version of Windows
[23:30] <ratrace> hello. I have PrintMotd no in sshd_config, and yet ssh connections print all kind of stuff upon login.
[23:31] <mybalzitch> did you hup/restart the ssh daemon?
[23:31] <ratrace> rebooted even
[23:32] <JanC> bindi: https://sourceforge.net/projects/freeotfe.mirror/ might be useful...
[23:33] <sarnold> ratrace: it may also be pam_motd(8) or perhaps shell startup scripts
[23:34] <ratrace> so how do I shut it up?
[23:35] <sarnold> first find out where it's coming from :)
[23:35] <ratrace> it's fresh installation of bionic
[23:35] <sarnold> check /etc/pam.d/ and /etc/*profile*
[23:35] <ratrace> like, litreally fresh I haven't yet put it into ansible's grip
[23:36] <ratrace> I commented out the related entries in pam.d/login, but no dice, still appears
[23:36] <sarnold> hrm :( I had hopes for that one
[23:36] <ratrace> I don't see anything relevant in any bash rcs
[23:38] <ratrace> oh wait, there's more motd crap in pam.d/ssh
[23:39] <ratrace> aaah..... precious SILENCE. finally.    that's 3 out of 3. netplan garbaged, snapd sniped.
[23:41] <sarnold> \o/
[23:41] <mybalzitch> I hate netplan, such trash
[23:42] <ratrace> utter garbage.   now imagine if I put that into ansible config.   Yaml that configures Yaml that configures .ini ..... LOLOLOLOL
[23:43] <ratrace> unfortunately the company that hired me wanted ubuntu for this particular server, as otherwise I'd gladly stick Debian onto that. Arleady have plethora of ansible playbooks for Deb


[04:39] <vorlon> looking into why debootstrap is failing now for all image builds :/
[04:46] <vorlon> ah I broke with removal of the lsb-release binary package, even though this was NBS and lsb-release-minimal provides it grrrr
[04:50] <vorlon> trying to retrigger lsb-release-minimal autopkgtests to speed this through; can't do archive surgery to bring the old NBS lsb-release binary back without multiple publisher runs and copies.  So hopefully lsb-release-minimal will just migrate so I don't have to fuss with it.
[05:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected rust-bindgen-0.56 [source] (jammy-proposed) [0.56.0-0ubuntu1~22.04.0]
[05:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: rejected rust-bindgen-0.56 [source] (jammy-proposed) [0.56.0-0ubuntu1~22.04.0]
[05:12] <vorlon> so here's a hairy one.  python-libzim in lunar requires zimlib >= 8.1.0 to build. zimlib 8.1.0 was reverted in Debian and is now at version 8.1.0+really8.0.0 in Debian testing and lunar-proposed.  python-libzim 2.1.0 did not make it into Debian testing before the revert so is now blocked in unstable; so we somehow need to do a revert of python-libzim that Debian did not
[05:14] <vorlon> given python-libzim 2.1.0 has only been in unreleased lunar and not in a stable release, and has no reverse-dependencies and is therefore unlikely to be installed by our users, I think I'm going to take the exceptional path of rolling back python-libzim to 1.1.1+ds-3 in the release pocket
[06:18] <vorlon> rs2009: ubuntu-unity-meta uploaded now, thanks
[08:32] <arraybolt3> How do I see the list of unapproved packages? I'm sure I uploaded a regression fix for a particular package but I don't see it in a bug report.
[08:35] <arraybolt3> Nevermind, found the link.
[08:36] <arraybolt3> There's a regression fix in XScreenSaver for all flavors of Kinetic that has been sitting in the Unapproved queue for a month. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/kinetic/+queue?queue_state=1&queue_text=xscreensaver https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/kinetic/+source/xscreensaver/+bug/1989163
[08:36] -ubottu:#ubuntu-release- Launchpad bug 1989163 in xscreensaver (Ubuntu Kinetic) "Unable to run screensaver when selected from menu" [High, In Progress]
[08:36] <arraybolt3> It would be nice if we could get that into -proposed for verification.
[08:37] <arraybolt3> I realize there's a released fix on that bug, but the fix for Lubuntu was different from the fix for the other flavors, and only the Lubuntu fix is in so far.
[13:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted rust-diesel-migrations [riscv64] (lunar-proposed) [2.0.0-1]
[17:42] <vorlon> lsb-release-minimal has migrated, debootstrap (and therefore image builds) unbroken.
[17:43] <vorlon> retriggered livecd-rootfs autopkgtest failures that resulted, so that we can get the new version in and fix xubuntu-minimal, edubuntu builds
[17:43] <vorlon> note that armhf autopkgtests are currently not being run; I've notified the QA team
[22:09] <vorlon> I am badtesting node-qs/arm64; the failure is reproducible but makes *no* *sense*
[22:10] <vorlon> and this unblocks otherwise-releasable node-object-inspect which has been stuck in -proposed since right after jammy release
[22:57] <LocutusOfBorg> schopin, hello, dh-cargo merge/sync please?
[22:57] <LocutusOfBorg> rust-document-features is "Missing build dependencies: dh-sequence-cargo
[22:57] <LocutusOfBorg> "


[13:04] <theShirbiny> wxl: have you had the time to look into #ubuntu-eg issue? :)
[14:26] <Kilos> o/


[00:29] <phillw> SystemParadox: I am only familiar with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/ATI
[00:31] <phillw> You can try either #ubuntu-beginners (it's a busier channel) or http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=334
[07:44] <batmann> the checksum on the lubuntu download pages appears to be incorrect
[07:44] <batmann> i had to download that crap like 5 times
[07:45] <batmann> finally had to just google the hash that i had and verified on a separate thread
[07:46] <batmann> :-/
[12:28] <orp> hi there
[12:28] <orp> i have an easy problem here
[12:28] <orp> on my menu i can't change the icons path
[12:29] <orp> any one can tell me what is the menu script to I can change it please?
[12:38] <IAmNotThatGuy> orp: Do you want to change the application icons? If so, you have to load them to /usr/share/icons first and then you can change in 'right click-> properties' of that particular icon
[12:41] <orp> i have try do it and change the execution path but it doesn't save
[12:42] <orp> i have not a clue why don't save the changes i do
[12:43] <orp> I can't change the application shortcuts on the menu
[12:44] <orp> i don't know where is the config script to change it on the shell
[18:03] <Gege71> hello
[18:04] <Gege71> does anyone have a good "dark theme" which works with all progs (especially firefox)
[18:33] <holstein> Gege71: try searching "openbox themes"
[18:33] <holstein> like http://catlingmindswipe.blogspot.com/2010/04/extra-themes-for-lxdeopenbox.html suggests
[18:37] <Gege71> thanks, but i already googled..box-look.org .... nothing good :)
[18:38] <holstein> might want to go ahead and just tweak one and submit it or whatever
[18:40] <Gege71> in fact, i am wondering if its is really possible to use a dark theme (such as this one : http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=144240)
[18:40] <Gege71> with all installed progs : firefox, pcmanfm, ...
[18:42] <Gege71> i already tried to tweak the welle known "Darkroom" theme, but impossible to have all prog working
[18:42] <holstein> Gege71: its all open.. anything is possible
[18:44] <Gege71> indeed, it should be possible... maybe with hours and hours of tries :)
[18:50] <holstein> Gege71: the hours get put in by someone... that someone can be you
[18:50] <holstein> you can make the theme you really want, and share it somewhere
[18:50] <holstein> or not...
[18:54] <Gege71> if i succed in making my own dark theme, i'll share it for sure ! :)
[22:09] <venik212> my sound has stopped working again... Lubuntu 11.10, NVIDIA MPC79/7A sound device
[22:10] <venik212> can anyone help?  I am using the latest NVIDIA driver
[22:13] <venik212> don't all rush to help at once-- one at a time, please!
[22:14]  * AmberJ holds the HelpToken
[22:14] <AmberJ> seen this already: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia ... That's all I can help
[22:14]  * AmberJ releases the HelpToken
[22:15] <AmberJ> Whose turn next? ;)
[22:16] <venik212> I have the latest driver from NVIDIA, and the graphics is fine.  It is the sound that is missing
[22:16] <venik212> It worked briefly and then died


[00:54] <MTecknology> ... is systemd-timesyncd somehow considered essential for ubuntu??!
[00:55] <sarnold> I doubt it, we put effort into chrony, too
[00:55] <sarnold> probably systemd-timesyncd is just the "yeah it's okay" default
[00:57] <MTecknology> I wonder if there's some other dependency. I'm still just dealing with the report from "salt-call state.highstate" and that's just passing along a complaint about removing an essential package without the correct flag.
[01:06] <sarnold> MTecknology: seemed fine https://termbin.com/wr34
[01:06] <trippeh> timesyncd doesnt seem to be required, no. at least not 22.04+
[01:20] <MTecknology> This is on 20.04, but yeah, it doesn't seem to be essential/required and the apt log shows it was the only package removed in that operation. It must have come from somewhere else, but I'm struggling to find it.
[01:21] <MTecknology> I probably just have to spend more time looking at logs .. Thanks for the sanity check!!


[00:08] <cmaloney> skellat: That sucks.
[00:08] <cmaloney> Unfortunately we're driving down on Friday so Ubucon is likely out for us.
[00:09] <skellat> cmaloney: Yeah, people weren't even interested if we asked for travel & lodging cash to be paid out of Canonical Community Budget for them.  I would have pushed hard for that and even then bupkis.
[00:11] <skellat> I get to hone my skills for apologizing tonight during the OLF planning meeting I think.  I've been doing such a great job as an apologist on the telephone for $FederalAgency until I hit furlough.
[00:11] <cmaloney> skellat: It's a useful skill. :)
[00:12] <cmaloney> btw: is Ohio planning on having a booth at OLF?
[00:13] <skellat> cmaloney: I don't think so.  There are no free booths anymore and the cost for the booth alone is high along with how long it takes me to get to Columbus cost-wise.
[00:14] <skellat> I'd have to get money out of Canonical Community Budget for it and I don't have enough people to staff it.
[00:14] <cmaloney> skellat: Understandable
[00:14] <cmaloney> That's partly why I wanted to offer our resources
[00:14] <cmaloney> I know we're both hurting for people now that Ubuntu is no longer the cool kid in town. :)
[00:15] <skellat> For me to go down is akin to a trip from Utica to middle of the mitten
[00:16] <skellat> s/Utica/Rochester Hills/
[00:16] <cmaloney> ROchester -> Lansing. :)
[00:17] <skellat> I was thinking in terms of distance.  I've done the trip from Rochester up to Central Michigan University and back in...January 2002, I think
[00:17] <skellat> That was back during undergrad at Rochester College
[00:18] <skellat> Ashtabula to Columbus is not a fun trip
[00:19] <skellat> cmaloney: I need to go take care of some things but I'll wing you an e-mail after the OLF planning meeting tonight
[00:19] <cmaloney> sounds good. Take care and TTYL!
[14:19] <PhillyMelt02> Good morning
[14:22] <cmaloney> Hello
[14:24] <PhillyMelt02> how  are you today?
[14:25] <PhillyMelt02> brb, diaper duty...
[14:25] <cmaloney> Enjoy. :)
[14:25] <cmaloney> Having a less diaper-filled day so far.
[14:29] <PhillyMelt02> Back.  That wasn't too bad.
[14:29] <PhillyMelt02> I was wondering if any knows of a linux expo held in michigan?
[14:29] <PhillyMelt02> I used to live in Los Angeles and attended SCALE
[14:30] <PhillyMelt02> Was wondering if anything like that existed here?
[14:55] <cmaloney> PhillyMelt02: Closest would be Ohio Linuxfest which is a regional conference.
[14:55] <cmaloney> http://ohiolinux.org
[14:55] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/ielN4 - Ohio LinuxFest 2014 - The Future of Free | Free and Open Software Conference and Expo - Columbus, Ohio - October 24-26, 2014
[15:02] <PhillyMelt02> Thanks.  I'll have to check it out.  Was hoping one would be a little closer to home but it is doable.
[15:03] <cmaloney> We do have a local Linux / UNIX users group in the area as well
[15:03] <cmaloney> http://mug.org
[15:03] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/XzBZ0f - Michigan!/usr/group | mug.org – A Michigan-based Linux and UNIX Free and Open Source Community
[15:03] <cmaloney> August meeting is tomorrow night
[15:05] <jrwren> PhillyMelt02: could you describe SCALE?
[15:06] <PhillyMelt02> http://www.socallinuxexpo.org
[15:06] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/IaJ5tP - SCALE 12x
[15:06] <PhillyMelt02> It was a multi-day event with exhibitors and speakers covering a wide range of topics.
[15:07] <jrwren> penguicon!
[15:08] <PhillyMelt02> SCALE was cool because you were free to attend the sessions/speakers you wanted without too much hassle.  No additional fees/registration required.
[15:08] <jrwren> sounds like you should start one here.
[15:10] <PhillyMelt02> From what I saw at SCALE it takes a monumental effort of many dedicated people.  I unfortunately don't have the time to take on something that ambitious.
[15:15] <cmaloney> Yeah, apparently MUG tried one back in the old days
[15:15] <cmaloney> It is still spoken of in hushed tones.
[15:16] <cmaloney> and regarded as a "we won't be doing that again"
[15:16] <cmaloney> event
[15:18] <PhillyMelt02> That is too bad.  Hopefully MUG may change its mind in the future.
[15:23] <cmaloney> This is a long, long time ago. Back when big iron roamed the earth
[15:24] <cmaloney> I'm one of the current MUG board members as well.
[15:35] <PhillyMelt02> Cool.  Thank you for volunteering your time.
[15:36] <jrwren> Mug has been around for a long time. I think MUG tried it in the mid 90s
[15:36] <jrwren> MUG has evolved nicely too. I remember around '00 they really were a unix group wiht not much linux focus. Lots of SCO people there.
[15:37] <cmaloney> jrwren: Funny enough they're cleaning out one of the storage closets at work. They unearthed a SCO box
[15:37] <cmaloney> I asked if I could take it to the shooting range.
[15:37]  * cmaloney doesn't even normally shoot.
[15:41] <PhillyMelt02> I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the term SCO
[15:42] <cmaloney> SCO was one of the first and most successful PC-based UNIX distributions
[15:42] <jrwren> PhillyMelt02: SCO was a popular unix in the 80s and 90s. Linux ate its lunch
[15:42] <PhillyMelt02> Ahh.  I wasn't introduced to unix/linux until I attended college in 2002.
[15:42] <cmaloney> Unfortunately someone bought the name and IP and decided the best way to compete was to litigate
[15:43] <cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_Operation#Asset_sale
[15:43] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/MRpse - Santa Cruz Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[15:43] <cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_SCO_Group
[15:43] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/VH8mjF - SCO Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[15:44] <cmaloney> Which is sad because Caldera was pretty nice.
[15:46] <PhillyMelt02> Are the MUG meetings open to non-members?  I see there is a scheduled meeting tomorrow in Farmington Hills.
[15:46] <cmaloney> Yep. Free as in beer as well
[15:46] <jrwren> PhillyMelt02: there are literally countless user group meetings in the area.
[15:47] <cmaloney> Well, there's two major ones
[15:47] <cmaloney> MUG and MDLUG
[15:47] <jrwren> PhillyMelt02: tonight is SEMJS in Ann Arbor, even if you don't use JS much, 100ish smart people go there for meet and greet.
[15:51] <PhillyMelt02> Thank you for the invitation.  Unfortunately with my work schedule and the time to get to A2 I won't make it.
[15:51] <PhillyMelt02> I went to UM in A2 so it would be nice to get back there for a visit.
[15:51] <PhillyMelt02> Does SEMJS have regular monthly meetings?
[15:51] <jrwren> yes.
[15:51] <jrwren> see SEMJS on meetup.com
[15:52] <jrwren> Where is your work?
[15:53] <PhillyMelt02> I work from my home about 1.5 hours east of A2.
[15:53] <PhillyMelt02> I do data entry/update for an investment management firm
[15:53] <PhillyMelt02> So my work begins at 4PM when the stock market closes
[15:53] <jrwren> ah. There are many detroit area groups.
[15:54] <jrwren> http://www.meetup.com/cities/us/mi/detroit/tech/
[15:54] <jrwren> Mobile Monday and Detroit Craftsman Build are particularlly good AFAIK
[15:55] <jrwren> oh, and API Craft - they meet Thursday
[15:56] <PhillyMelt02> Thanks for all the info.
[15:56] <PhillyMelt02> I have been wanted to get involved for awhile.
[19:11] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[19:11] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's current track - Вторжение by Invisible Devastation on ID EP
[19:21] <brousch> cmaloney: I think I need to study defense or opening moves next. I feel like I'm flopping around blindly with those
[19:21] <cmaloney> brousch: You too? :)
[19:21] <cmaloney> This is definietly a game that rewards patience.
[19:22] <cmaloney> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_opening_theory
[19:22] <bookiebot> http://goo.gl/M0yuvR - Go opening theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[20:48] <cmaloney> Well, driving home was fun
[21:05] <brousch> did you try it with your eyes closed?
[21:44] <greg-g> back in 'merica
[23:28] <cmaloney> brousch: No, but we drove in this wet mess down to Dearborn
[23:28] <cmaloney> many flooded roads
[23:30] <brousch> How does a wet mess compare to a hot mess?
[23:34] <cmaloney> a wet mess has a lot more cleanup
[23:58] <greg-g> Robin Williams died :(
[23:58] <greg-g> I found out because I just got a text from a coworker "Cluster is having load issues, mostly under control"
[23:58] <greg-g> got online to learn it was due to his death (and the resulting spike in usage on WP)
[23:58] <greg-g> same thing happened for Michael Jackson


[01:17] <nalioth> how long has #ubuntu been +R?
[01:23] <LjL> nalioth: since one hour at least
[01:25] <nalioth> wow
[01:27] <LjL> nalioth: uhm... it's there since you set it at 21:02 CET :-)
[01:27] <LjL> nalioth: besides that - i see in the log that it was mudkip again, only this time with mudk1p as nick... did his bots join -unregged?
[01:27] <LjL> i had forwarded mu*kip* to -unregged to see if he would be so kind to give us advance notice, this time
[01:28] <nalioth> no, he completely bypassed your bans
[01:29] <Tm_T> Aww.
[01:29] <LjL> hm weird though
[01:29] <LjL> the first attack, he joined as mudkip
[01:29] <LjL> then, that was banned, and yesterday he joined as muudkip
[01:29] <LjL> i was convinced that he would try with the previous name, first
[01:30] <LjL> or perhaps muuudkip (but that would have been forwarded to -unregged too)
[01:30] <LjL> so either he saw the bans, or i don't know
[01:31] <nalioth> trolls are smart
[01:31] <LjL> well, his bots don't even attempt to get around +J...
[01:31] <LjL> i'm not sure i call that smart
[01:32] <Tm_T> LjL: Atleast you don't get threats like "next time I setup my windows irc war & uber flood ur dumb ass till u keep logging off"
[01:32] <Tm_T> ;)
[01:33] <Tm_T> Why they don't just start fanclub, I wonder.
[01:33] <LjL> but those amuse me :P
[01:33] <Tm_T> Sure do.
[01:34] <Tm_T> For a time, but at some point you only get irritated.
[03:26] <Amaranth> weird
[03:26] <Amaranth> did anyone else see the message from "John"?
[04:39] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, Jordan_U said: !nvidea | nv is the reverse engineered open source driver get the official nvidia driver here
[06:49] <ubotu> In #ubuntu-offtopic, nothlit said: !KMenuGnome is <reply> K Menu Gnome and Gnome Menu Extended are two packages to help you reduce clutter in the menus of a dual KDE/GNOME install. See http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=31031 (K Menu Gnome) and http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31035 (Gnome Menu Extended)
[07:18] <mneptok> omg my eyes
[07:18] <Hobbsee> mneptok: what's up?
[07:19] <nalioth> he saw Ubugtu lart 37 . . . .
[07:20] <mneptok> Hobbsee: site referenced by BB today
[07:20] <Hobbsee> ah
[07:20] <Hobbsee> @lart 27 mneptok
[07:20] <mneptok> it's just ... humanity is weird.
[07:20] <Hobbsee> nalioth: doesnt seem that scary to me
[07:20] <mneptok> s/27/37/
[07:22] <nalioth> @lart 37 mneptok
[07:22] <nalioth> thirty-seven, not twenty-seven
[07:24] <kgoetz> hi Hobbsee
[07:26] <Hobbsee> hey kgoetz
[07:26] <Hobbsee> nalioth: heh
[07:26] <nalioth> Hobbsee: you see? he's totally blotzed now
[07:26] <Hobbsee> yep
[08:18] <Madpilot> "* Ubugtu shows hexidigital a photo of mneptok for no particular reason" - heh. hadn't run into that lart before. Hobbsee has some competition in the @lart department now, I see!
[08:19] <Hobbsee> heh, yep
[08:26] <mneptok> Mickey's on the production line. I'm a super mouse in time. Everybody's doing the goose step out in Anaheim. (They're goosesteppin' out in Anaheim). Mastermouse gonna feel no fear. Mickey's gonna lead us to the new frontier. Everybody wants to be the perfect mouseketeer. (Be perfect. Be a mouseketeer).
[08:27] <mneptok> and there's stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukas over Disneyland!
[08:27] <nalioth> anyone know about firefox here?
[08:28] <Mez> !firefox | nalioth
[08:28] <ubotu> nalioth: firefox is the default web-browser on Ubuntu. To install the latest version, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FirefoxNewVersion Installing plugins: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxPlugins
[08:28] <Madpilot> Firefox? that's the browser that copies Opera all the time, isn't it?
[08:28] <Madpilot> ;)
[08:28] <nalioth> Mez: no shizzle
[08:28] <nalioth> i'm having a problem with tabs
[08:28] <Mez> nalioth, ;)
[08:28] <Mez> sup ?
[08:29] <mneptok> Madpilot: yeah, i love how they stole the idea of extending functionality with an extensions API.
[08:29] <mneptok> oh. wait. Opera has nothing like that.
[08:29] <mneptok> :P
[08:29] <Hobbsee> yes, but opera sucks
[08:29] <Madpilot> mneptok, I was thinking more in terms of tabs, being able to drag tabs, popup blocking, all the cool stuff that Opera pretty much invented :)
[08:29] <Hobbsee> Q.E.D.
[08:30] <Hobbsee> :P
[08:30] <Madpilot> and Opera does have a plugin structure, just that very few people use it...
[08:32] <mneptok> Madpilot: UserJS is to the Fx plugin API what a tricycle is to travel through the fourth dimension.
[08:33] <Madpilot> you're the fourth dimensional travel expert, aren't you? ;)
[08:33] <Mez> no, thats me
[12:59] <ubotu> In ubotu, bimberi said: no ops-#ubuntu-au is <reply> Help! elkbuntu, Fujitsu, siccness, kgoetz, Kamping_Kaiser or `6og
[12:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> ops is dynamic isnt it?
[12:59] <Kamping_Kaiser> and i should only need to be in once...
[01:00] <jenda> Kamping_Kaiser: nope, it's static, and you gotta prod someone with edit powahs.
[01:06] <elkbuntu> how do you specify per-channel factoids again?
[01:11] <apokryphos> elkbuntu: factoid-#channel
[01:11] <elkbuntu> !ops-#ubuntu-au is <reply> Help! elkbuntu, Fujitsu, siccness, kgoetz, Kamping_Kaiser or `6og
[01:11] <ubotu> But ops-#ubuntu-au already means something else!
[01:11] <elkbuntu> ubotu, no ops-#ubuntu-au is <reply> Help! elkbuntu, Fujitsu, siccness, kgoetz, Kamping_Kaiser or `6og
[01:11] <ubotu> I'll remember that elkbuntu
[01:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> elkbuntu, please, me in there once....
[01:12] <elkbuntu> it failed anyway
[01:12] <apokryphos> !ops-#ubuntu-au
[01:12] <ubotu> Help!  YukiCuss, Fujitsu, elkbuntu, Kamping_Kaiser, siccness, jdub
[01:14] <elkbuntu> lets find an ops call and fix !ops
[01:16] <apokryphos> !no ops is <reply> Help! Mez, LjL, elkbuntu, imbrandon, DBO, gnomefreak, Hobbsee, rob, ompaul, Madpilot, Burgundavia, Seveas, CarlK, crimsun, ajmitch, tritium, Nalioth, thoreauputic, apokryphos or tonyyarusso
[01:16] <ubotu> I'll remember that apokryphos
[01:16] <apokryphos> !search ops
[01:16] <ubotu> Found: desktops, laptop, ops-#kubuntu, exploit, ops-#xubuntu-offtopic, botabuse, tor-#ubuntu-ops-also, ops-#ubuntu-nz, medic, ops-#edubuntu
[01:16] <bimberi> apokryphos: I fixed it
[01:16] <bimberi> !no ops is <reply> Help! Amaranth, tonyyarusso, apokryphos, thoreauputic, Nalioth, fabbione, lamont, Keybuk, jdub, mdz, tritium, ajmitch, crimsun, ogra, CarlK, Seveas, Burgundavia, Madpilot, ompaul, rob, Hobbsee, gnomefreak, DBO, imbrandon, elkbuntu, LjL, Mez or mneptok
[01:16] <ubotu> I'll remember that bimberi
[01:16] <Amaranth> arg
[01:16] <bimberi> in trying to change ops-#ubuntu-au it changed ops :O
[01:16] <Kamping_Kaiser> yay for not being on !ops
[01:17] <mneptok> jesus. i'm "the professor and mary-ann" on that list. :/
[01:17] <Amaranth> do it in a PM next time please :)
[01:17] <elkbuntu> bimberi, thanks :)
[01:17] <Hobbsee> @lart bimberi
[01:17] <apokryphos> bimberi: hm, the actual call we had last time didn't have all of the #ubuntu ops
[01:17] <Hobbsee> @lart 28 bimberi
[01:17] <Amaranth> oh man, that'll haunt your dreams
[01:17] <bimberi> argh
[01:17] <bimberi> ;)
[01:18] <apokryphos> bimberi: since some of those people have ops but I think don't want to be alerted all the time
[01:18] <apokryphos> i.e. mdz, fabbione
[01:18] <apokryphos> I'll set it back to the one we had
[01:18] <bimberi> ... then they shouldn't be ops?
[01:18] <bimberi> kk
[01:19] <bimberi> i was going from /msg chanserv access #ubuntu list
[01:19] <apokryphos> yeah
[01:19] <apokryphos> fabbione does +o very rarely
[01:19] <apokryphos> but mdz hasn't in years. Still, I wouldn't want to remove CTO off any access list :P
[01:20] <bimberi> :)
[01:20] <Hobbsee> bimberi: they're rarely in the channel, no?
[01:20] <mneptok> apokryphos: i'll discuss his +o with him sometime and see if he still wants it. but yes, please remove him from !ops calls.
[01:21] <bimberi> Hobbsee: not really that i've noticed
[01:21] <apokryphos> don't think it matters much really (whether they're on the access list or not)
[01:21] <mneptok> (fabbione, too. i can say with confidence that he doesn't want to know) ;)
[01:22] <apokryphos> ok, someone remind Seveas that channel-specific factoid making is still broken, then, whenever he's around
[01:22] <bimberi> elkbuntu: np :) although I don't know why ubotu changed !ops - I didn't typo - I can't change !ops-#ubuntu-au
[01:22] <bimberi> !ops-#ubuntu-au
[01:22] <ubotu> Help! YukiCuss, Fujitsu, elkbuntu, Kamping_Kaiser, siccness, jdub
[01:23] <elkbuntu> bimberi, i tried changing !ops-#ubuntu-au, which is when it pooped out and changed !ops
[01:23] <apokryphos> there were a lot of changes to the Encyclopedia factoid recently, and channel-specific factoids did break, but I thought they were fixed again yesterday
[01:23] <bimberi> yep, same here
[01:23] <apokryphos> perhaps they broke again ;-)
[01:24] <bimberi> elkbuntu: you might have noticed i had all of Karl's nicks in my version ;)
[01:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, i did notice, i asked for a bit less of me :) at home all of them ping me, in irssi it has to be at the start of the line, so its moot
[01:25] <Kamping_Kaiser> and thats not all my nics :P
[01:26] <Amaranth> whee i can type zoomed out
[01:26] <Amaranth> hey it worked
[01:26] <bimberi> hehe, i suspect many of have a "lurkernick" or two :)
[01:26] <elkbuntu> bimberi, he didnt like that very much either ;)
[01:26] <bimberi> *many of us
[01:26] <apokryphos> Amaranth: input-enabled zoom's been around for ages, hasn't it?
[01:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> bimberi, *grin*. yeh
[01:26] <Amaranth> apokryphos: i'm using the wall plugin
[01:26] <Amaranth> apokryphos: like OS X Spaces
[01:27] <Amaranth> about to port it to compiz
[01:27] <apokryphos> hm, I haven't tried that plugin. /me looks for it
[01:28] <apokryphos> Amaranth: is it not in trunk/ ?
[01:28] <Amaranth> it is
[01:30] <apokryphos> Amaranth: any advance on a settings manager for compiz?
[01:30] <apokryphos> I haven't been keeping up
[01:30] <Amaranth> i've decided that an automated thing that shows all the options is a bad idea
[01:30] <Amaranth> if you really want to tweak that kind of thing you have gconf
[01:31] <apokryphos> ah, I remember the wall plugin now
[01:31] <Amaranth> i'm going to be working on something like gnome-compiz-preferences but with less crack
[02:20] <Hobbsee> yay, spammer
[02:21] <jenda> did someone say my name?
[02:21] <Hobbsee> jenda: [00:20]  <Maryyy6Y> Evde YaNLzm Camda Ack :) GeL E k `l` e M `s` n esen855 in a query
[02:21] <Hobbsee> and dlines all over the place in #ubuntu
[02:21] <jenda> oh, that's not me, then :)
[02:22] <Hobbsee> jenda: nope, nope.  but this is looking very suss.
[02:24] <Amaranth> i suck at checking on-join PM spam
[02:24] <Amaranth> because xchat-gnome seems to like to ask _something_ about every user in a channel on join via dbus
[02:24] <Amaranth> so i don't like to /cycle
[02:24] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: i'ts not on join.   i've been in #ubuntu for ages
[02:24] <jenda> Hobbsee: when I said, as if I could help it, I meant, as if I could get myself off IRC ;
[02:24] <jenda> ;)
[02:25] <Hobbsee> jenda: ahh.
[02:25] <Hobbsee> jenda: what's a dline?
[02:25] <Hobbsee> ie, what's the difference between a dline and kline?  cant remember, offhand
[02:26] <ubotu> In ubotu, mneisen said: !zfs is <reply>ZFS on Linux is still under development. Ricardo Correira (http://zfs-on-fuse.blogspot.com/) ports the original ZFS implementation by Sun Microsystems (for their Solaris 10 operating system) to Linux and implements it as a filesystem in userspace (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace). If you want to know how to install the current release of ZFS/FUSE on Ubuntu, read
[02:27] <ubotu> In ubotu, mneisen said: !zfs is <reply>ZFS on Linux is still under development. Ricardo Correira (http://zfs-on-fuse.blogspot.com/) ports the original ZFS implementation by Sun Microsystems (for their Solaris 10 operating system) to Linux and implements it as a filesystem in userspace (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace). If you want to know how to install the current release of ZFS/FUSE on Ubuntu, see
[02:27] <Hobbsee> s/person/people/
[02:28] <Hobbsee> [00:28]  [Whois]  uBeyaZ_Kar_gaL is<EMAIL_ADDRESS>( . PAPATYA  v5 .)
[02:29] <Hobbsee> jenda: that's a spambot, isnt it?
[02:29] <jenda> might be...
[02:29] <Hobbsee> it's an irc script
[02:29] <jenda> Hobbsee: a d-line is per-server, and won't let you join.
[02:29] <Hobbsee> ahhh
[02:29] <jenda> a kline(on freenode) will kill you immediately after join, and is pan-network.
[02:30] <Hobbsee> they're just joining and parting though - they're not flooding or flaming or whatever...
[02:30] <jenda> hehe
[02:30] <jenda> and yes, that was a spambot.
[02:30] <jenda> auto-killed :)
[02:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> Hobbsee, attempted part/join flood?
[02:31] <Hobbsee> jenda: that in particular?  that's been sitting in ubuntu...
[02:31] <jenda> unless you requested that d-line, it was automatic.
[02:31] <Hobbsee> nope
[02:32] <apokryphos> they do take wildcards
[02:32] <jenda> Hobbsee: yes, it does.
[02:32] <Hobbsee> nice
[02:33] <jenda> Hobbsee: I was feeling lonely up there all alone :)
[02:33] <jenda> * jenda removes channel operator status from jenda
[02:33] <Hobbsee> jenda: hrm?
[02:33] <Hobbsee> awww
[02:33] <jenda>
[02:51] <mneptok> jenda: if a k: is net-wide, does Fnode have a g:?
[02:51] <mneptok> (k: is usually server and g: is net-wide.)
[02:52] <elkbuntu> mneptok, what is d: usually then?
[02:52] <mneptok> "not RFC" (iirc)
[02:52] <mneptok> it may be a Freenodism
[02:53] <elkbuntu> ugh, another tla i dont know :(
[02:54] <jenda> mneptok: no
[02:54] <jenda> mneptok: yes
[02:54] <Mez> GAI
[02:54] <jenda> )
[02:54] <jenda> :)
[02:54] <jenda> mneptok: yes, k is usually per-server
[02:55] <jenda> mneptok: no, freenode doesn't have a g-line.
[02:55] <jenda> elkbuntu: RFC = request for comments :)
[02:55] <mneptok> 1459?
[02:56] <jenda> that's the IRC RFC :)
[02:56] <mneptok> (if i actually remember this RFC # i'm officially a (pejorative) geek)
[02:56] <mneptok> ohgod. i am. :(
[02:57] <elkbuntu> <insert Nelson laugh here>
[02:57] <jenda> hehe
[02:57] <mneptok> thanks for the virtual, metal wedgie.
[02:57] <mneptok> *mental
[02:58] <jenda> mneptok: how did a 'RFC' evolve to be a term for internet standards?
[02:59] <Mez> hello
[02:59] <Mez> sorry for my spurious "GAI" above
[02:59] <Mez> i've n idea where it is
[02:59] <Mez> how it came about
[02:59] <Mez> man my brain hurtsd
[02:59] <mneptok> jenda: because during ARPA days things moved quickly, and in a decentralized fashion. new protocols got implemented so quickly by such disparate groups that they ended up doing what Ubuntu does with specs. which are really RFCs. ;)
[02:59] <elkbuntu> Mez, we already concluded you're weird. dont worry
[03:00] <Mez> yay
[03:00] <mneptok> jenda: i *think* RFC is a Jon Postelism.
[03:00] <jenda> :)
[03:00] <jenda> cool.
[03:01] <jenda> 3092 is my favorite RFC :)
[03:03] <jenda>
[03:04] <mneptok> Hobbsee: who?
[03:05] <Hobbsee> mneptok: hrm?
[03:05] <mneptok> Hobbsee: who did you ping?
[03:07] <Hobbsee> mneptok: *grin*
[03:07] <Hobbsee> mneptok: jenda, of course
[03:09] <mneptok> sorry, lost my scrollback. who?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> :P
[03:09] <mneptok> >:)
[04:15] <Tm_T> apokryphos: Mooh!
[04:32] <apokryphos> Tm_T: kazoo
[04:42] <SportChick> hob: it was 5AM
[05:02] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, Lunar_Lamp said: !linux-generic is There are currently problems with the linux-generic metapackage in the ubuntu repositories. Whilst attempting to upgrade probably won't damage, it's not advised and the repositories should be updated in a few hours
[05:17] <ubotu> In ubotu, soundray said: edgykernel is <reply>There is currently a server-side inconsistency preventing kernel upgrades to version 2.6.17-11. A bug has been filed, please be patient.
[05:18] <LjL> thought so... :)
[05:18] <LjL> !edgykernel is <reply> There is currently a server-side inconsistency preventing kernel upgrades to version 2.6.17-11. A bug has been filed, please be patient.
[05:18] <ubotu> I'll remember that, LjL
[05:19] <LjL> will upgrading before that's fixed break ubuntu?
[05:23] <gnomefreak> LjL: shouldnt from my understanding its a depedns issue
[05:23] <gnomefreak> just dont use aptitude or smaert
[05:23] <gnomefreak> smart
[05:56] <LjL> hm i've got a nice 11 seconds lag, hope freenode's not acting up again
[06:37] <PriceChild> Yeah we're bracing ourselves on the forums atm about that kernel issue... but seems most people are using apt
[11:20] <Seveas> so... bots throttle :)
[11:20] <Seveas> +J isn't useful...
[11:21] <Seveas> well well, they even detect +m...
[11:21] <nalioth> apokryphos: they've been klined
[11:21] <apokryphos> not all yet
[11:22] <nalioth> they will be
[11:22] <apokryphos> Seveas: shall we -m since +R is on? I don't think the bots are registered.
[11:22] <apokryphos> ah, already done
[11:23] <Seveas> nalioth, what is chii and why is there a bot with ops in #ubuntu ????
[11:24] <nalioth> Seveas: chii is a network bot thing
[11:24] <nalioth> let it have ops, it's whacking trolls
[11:25] <Seveas> nalioth, I don'y like it *at all* if such things are done without discussion
[11:25] <nalioth> Seveas: you see #ubuntu "why" it was opped
[11:26] <Seveas> yes, now
[11:26] <Seveas> but discussion should happen prior to doing such things
[11:26] <nalioth> take that up with bearperson
[11:27] <apokryphos> Seveas: he's in -unregged too
 nalioth, what is chii and why is there a bot with ops in #ubuntu ????
 Seveas: chii is a network bot thing
 let it have ops, it's whacking trolls
 nalioth, I don'y like it *at all* if such things are done without discussion
 Seveas: you see #ubuntu "why" it was opped
 yes, now
 but discussion should happen prior to doing such things
 take that up with bearperson
[11:28] <BearPerson> chii is our bot, it hangs out in a plethora of channels and mostly just watches various things for us
[11:28] <BearPerson> it occasionally K-lines
[11:28] <BearPerson> I opped it to make it get the spam and be able to react to it
[11:30] <apokryphos> Seveas: I see no problem with any _Freenode_ bot being opped if it helps directly
[11:30] <BearPerson> I suggest you set #ubuntu +r for now, to get the bots siphoned off into -unregged for now
[11:30] <BearPerson> chii has been in the channel for ages, btw
[11:31] <BearPerson> sorry if I stepped on any toes by opping it
[11:31] <Seveas> apokryphos, the problem is doing such things without notice. We (apart from nalioth) didn't know what the bot was for. Until I /whois'ed itI wasn't sure whether it was malicious or not
[11:31] <BearPerson> I don't think it is even capable of using being chanopped in any way
[11:32] <Seveas> and I *hate* bots that kick people
[11:32] <BearPerson> it will do nothing of the sort
[11:32] <BearPerson> it can kline
[11:32] <BearPerson> if it wanted to kick, it could do so without being opped
[11:32] <apokryphos> there's nothing wrong with it IMO if the kick/ban is legitimate
[11:32] <apokryphos> I think a warning might've been nice, but still... doing a quick /whois to find out isn't so bad
[11:32] <BearPerson> the only reason I opped it is so it could see +z messages
[11:32] <nalioth> Seveas: bearperson opped it so it could pick up +z spam
[11:33] <BearPerson> it will not, I repeat, it will not kick people or set channel bans
[11:33] <nalioth> it just klines trolls and Trolls
[11:33] <Seveas> BearPerson, if staff can do everything without being opped, maybe they should also be able to see everything so +z isn't needed :)
[11:33] <BearPerson> I'll mark that as a feature request ;)
[11:34] <apokryphos> BearPerson: just a note that we really appreciate the staffers help out in such things, honestly :)
[11:34] <Seveas> BearPerson, then also please file the '+z on +R does not work thing' as a bug
[11:34] <apokryphos> it's really grea to know that people are on the case
[11:34] <BearPerson> will do
[11:35] <Seveas> btw: does freenode have a public bug/feature tracker?
[11:35] <apokryphos> *great
[11:35] <BearPerson> not right now, but I'm working on getting us one
[11:35] <BearPerson> the bots appear to have left for now, btw, maybe you can go -R+r for a bit
[11:36] <apokryphos> not that many joins, is +r necessary?
[11:36] <Seveas> why +r if the bots left?
[11:36] <BearPerson> in case they come back sometime soon
[11:36] <BearPerson> but yeah, maybe plain -R will work
[11:36] <Seveas> -R and paying attention :)
[11:36] <apokryphos> Seveas: one character out :P
[11:39] <apokryphos> the bots definitely take notice of our channel modes though
[11:39] <apokryphos> in the past few days, all the bot attacks were of exactly 5 bots
[11:40] <apokryphos> ...when #ubuntu was on +J 2,5
[11:40] <BearPerson> try setting +J 2,2 then
[11:40] <apokryphos> ok, will see how that goes
[11:40] <BearPerson> we can probably assume that the bot runner reads everything we say
[11:40] <nalioth> there is a spy in the channel
[11:41] <BearPerson> probably
[11:41] <nalioth> undoubtedly
[11:41] <BearPerson> there will also be at least one guy watching the channel for a bit before the bots join, maybe hanging out there permanently
[11:41] <apokryphos> this used to be a closed channel but we decided the general greater good was to open it up
[11:41] <BearPerson> incoming...
[11:41] <Seveas> i figured as much :)
[11:42] <Seveas> opening up is good
[11:42] <apokryphos> oh, and when it was on +J, 5 bots exactly joined and then no more got into -unregged. So they probably read the channel mode and specifically don't follow channel redirects (if that's possible)
[11:42] <apokryphos> Seveas: indeed
[11:42] <Seveas> but kicking out people we don't know is just as good
[11:42] <Seveas> until they introduce themselves
[11:42] <BearPerson> -unregged was +i at some point too, though
[11:42] <apokryphos> yeah, for one of the attacks, unfortunately
[11:42] <BearPerson> identify as what?
[11:42] <apokryphos> it was taken off soon-ish enough though
[11:43] <Seveas> I'm going to do some kicking now. If you are kicked and want to come back, please introduce yourself when you do so
[11:43] <apokryphos> Seveas: who is zenwhen?
[11:43] <Seveas> apokryphos, forums
[11:44] <apokryphos> ah, cloak applied after entry
[11:44] <nalioth> zenwhen is an op/founder of #ubuntuforums
[11:44] <Seveas> anyone knows Minataku ?
[11:44] <nalioth> he can go
[11:45] <Seveas> LongPointyStick is probably somthing to do with hobbsee
[11:45] <nalioth> there are lots of folks banned lately that want to come in HERE and socialize (since they can't get into #ubuntu-whatever
[11:45] <Seveas> variant, hi
[11:45] <nalioth> yes, LPS is hobbsee
[11:45] <variant> lo Seveas
[11:45] <Seveas> how can we help you variant ?
[11:46] <variant> Just thought I would point out this: http://www.free3d.org/ It would be a very good addition to the ubuto information db.. really clarifies the whole free software drivers for graphics cards situation, what the status is and what to expect from the drivers etc.
[11:47] <apokryphos> variant: thanks, noted.
[11:47] <variant> for example, i have seen a lot of people ask what is the best supported card with free sfotware drivers.. this page points that out quite clearly
[11:47] <LjL> gaaah, ubotu, ubotU, ubot*U* - i can (almost) understand the guys who join #ubuntu for the first time, but you! >:
[11:47] <variant> this the right place to point that out or what?
[11:48] <Seveas> variant, it most definitely is
[11:48] <Seveas> thanks!
[11:48] <Burgwork> hmm, glxgears is not a benchmark
[11:48] <variant> Burgwork: no, i noticed that..
[11:48] <variant> anyway.. i'l just run along now :)
[11:49] <Seveas> variant, however it seems that the page is more benchmarks than free 3d stuff
[11:50] <LjL> tsk, these pages only serve to let me see how small my... eh, 3D graphics bandwidth and computation speed is compared to the cool guys :(
[11:52] <BearPerson> hmm, I still have bots trickling in
[11:53] <BearPerson> different brand than before, though
[11:59] <Minataku> Aw, I can't stay and pal around?
[12:00] <Seveas> Minataku, only if you introduce yourself to us
[12:00] <Seveas> we don't want botnet spies in here
[12:00] <Minataku> I'm Minataku, I assist in #kubuntu
[12:00] <Minataku> I love Linux and hate Windows
[12:01] <BearPerson> though nothing keeps the botnet spies from introducing themselves too ;)
[12:01] <Minataku> Etc etc etc and there is a real person behind this keyboard
[12:01] <Seveas> BearPerson, true
[12:01] <Minataku> I didn't think I'd need an intro, I've talked in here several times
[12:01] <Minataku> lol
[12:01] <Seveas> but "I assist in #kubuntu" means that some kubuntu people will know him, so:
[12:01] <Seveas> !ops-#kubuntu
[12:01] <ubotu> Help!  I'm noticed! XD
[12:02] <Seveas> apokryphos, good enough
[12:02] <Minataku> I haven't been helping that much lately because my focus tends to drift around to different things
[12:02] <apokryphos> Minataku: what's your interest in being here, though?
[12:03] <nalioth> Seveas: see previous text re: #ubuntu-ops as social channel
[12:03] <Seveas> nalioth, yeah, that should be kept to a minimum imho
[12:03] <Minataku> apokryphos: Well, I like the atmosphere... I used to be an IRC Operator on a network called CreativeIRC
[12:03] <Minataku> I like having power, or failing that, being around it
[12:04] <apokryphos> Minataku: at the moment we are suffering bot attacks, hence we're suspicious of many people around, particularly our staff channel...
[12:04] <Minataku> Ah
[12:04] <Seveas> Minataku, fingers ---> metal wire ---> power plug
[12:04] <Seveas> power :)
[12:04] <BearPerson> :)
[12:04] <Minataku> Hm... I don't see anything in the buffer... I suppose direct attacks then?
[12:04] <BearPerson> look for lines of '#' chars in #ubuntu
[12:04] <Minataku> I've been DDoSed before myself... wasn't fun
[12:05] <Minataku> Ah, I'm not in there
[12:05] <jenda> Seveas: never mind, I read the backlog.
[12:05] <Minataku> This is why I've never been one for Freenode's recommendation to hide status, it adds extra time to the response to incidents
[12:06] <jenda> it shouldn't, if done right.
[12:06] <Minataku> jenda: There's an extra step, so by sheer logic there's additional delay
[12:07] <jenda> when automated, the time is negligeable.
[12:07] <Minataku> Indeed, but what about the event that services are down?
[12:07] <jenda> then, we're boned :)
[12:08] <Minataku> See?
[12:08] <apokryphos> nalioth: can be an item for discussion at the meeting
[12:08] <Minataku> If you're affiliated with a project, donate or asked, your IP is hidden, which shields you from direct attacks
[12:08] <apokryphos> nalioth: again I think this might be partly down to the question of loco team ops
[12:09] <Minataku> People really shouldn't be sending ops PMs anyway unless they explictly don't mind
[12:09] <Minataku> Which cuts that argument down
[12:26] <gnomefreak> Seveas: how long are posts kept on pastebin?
[12:26] <Seveas> until I delete them
[12:27] <gnomefreak> ok ill save it than ty :)
[12:27] <Seveas> gnomefreak, pastebin is meant to be temporary :)
[12:28] <Seveas> anyway, me --> bed
[12:28] <gnomefreak> i figured as much thats why i asked :) night