[12:23] <cypher> i was trying packaging
[12:24] <LaserJock> good for him :-)
[12:24] <LaserJock> I'm glad he let us know
[12:30] <LaserJock> for what it's worth, to get an edgy pbuilder I just did:
[12:30] <LaserJock> copy pbuilder-dapper to pbuilder-edgy
[12:30] <LaserJock> changed DISTRIBUTION to edgy
[12:30] <LaserJock> copied the dapper base.tgz to edgy-base.tgz
[12:31] <crimsun> that's way more work than necessary.
[12:31] <crimsun> two-line diff above somewhen
[12:31] <LaserJock> ran pbuilder-edgy update --override-config
[12:31] <crimsun> you've already got the script; make /it/ do the hard work ;)
[12:32] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't see why that would have helped me out much
[12:32] <crimsun> you apply the diff and run ``./pbuilder-edgy create'', and it does it all for you?
[12:32] <crimsun> to each his/her own, of course
[12:33] <LaserJock> ah, but I didn't want to create I wanted to just update
[12:33] <LaserJock> although it might not have mattered
[12:33] <LaserJock> I figured an update might pull less packages
[12:33] <crimsun> the version I pasted above is a dapper->edgy dist-upgrade
[12:35] <LaserJock> hmm, I don't see how that could be but I'll take your word for it ;-)
[12:36] <crimsun> by removing the --distribution line, it defaults to dapper. It creates a dapper pbuilder, then with --othermirror it updates && dist-upgrades to edgy after the dapper base is in place.
[12:36] <LaserJock> ahhhhh
[12:36] <LaserJock> sneaky
[12:36] <crimsun> "efficient"
[12:38] <LaserJock> these scripts have really made pbuilder a lot easier for me
[12:38] <LaserJock> I was getting lost in all the pbuilderrc and apt.config/ stuff
[12:38] <crimsun> they're definitely clean
[01:14] <LaserJock> so do we have a merge list yet?
[01:15] <crimsun> LaserJock: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2006-June/000709.html
[01:16] <LaserJock> well, but MoM lists
[01:17] <LaserJock> are we going to use the same list system we did in dapper?
[01:17] <crimsun> no idea. I think we're waiting on:
[01:17] <crimsun> 19:07 < Keybuk> getting mom fed with sufficient kittens first
[01:19] <LaserJock> yeah, that's what prompted my question
[01:20] <LaserJock> I suppose I can run through my Science list and start working on the ones I know
[01:20] <crimsun> yep, that's a good idea
[01:41] <bddebian> Heya gang
[01:43] <anibal> where can I find documentation about merging packages?
[01:43] <bddebian> There is a wiki page on it
[01:44] <crimsun> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/Merging
[01:44] <bddebian> Thx crimsun
[01:45] <anibal> crimsun, thanks
[01:48] <LaserJock> I also wrote a section in the Packaging Guide ;-)
[01:49] <anibal> and how I go about uploading my packages?
[01:49] <anibal> LaserJock, what's the URL, please?
[01:49] <crimsun> anibal: straight from Debian, or?
[01:49] <LaserJock> anibal: https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[01:50] <crimsun> anibal: straight Debian syncs would be handled by the MoM admin (here, Keybuk)
[01:50] <crimsun> anibal: but I'm not sure what packages you're referring to
[01:50] <anibal> crimsun, yep, but some have a small diff because I'm still not using the same init files
[01:51] <anibal> crimsun, http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=anibal
[01:52] <anibal> I'm interested in merging my packages soon after I upload them to debian
[01:52] <anibal> LaserJock, thanks
[01:53] <crimsun> anibal: ok, when they're in Sid, just merge them and upload them to Ubuntu (if you're in the Launchpad ubuntu-dev group)
[01:53] <anibal> at the moment, I'm very interested in mergin the NFSv4 packages
[01:54] <anibal> I'm not in the  Launchpad ubuntu-dev group yet, I guess I'll need someone to sponsor me first
[01:56] <crimsun> anibal: libnfsidmap will be synced
[01:56] <crimsun> nfs-utils will require a merge
[01:56] <crimsun> I'm happy to look at it when you deem it ready
[01:57] <crimsun> (dang, the version of libnfsidmap is pretty old in dapper)
[01:58] <anibal> crimsun, what's your email address, please?
[01:58] <crimsun> anibal<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:58] <anibal> crimsun, thanks
[02:07] <crimsun> I'm having a terrible time mistyping madison<->source this evening
[02:08] <bddebian> :-)
[02:08] <LaserJock> heh
[02:11] <LaserJock> I just have general spelling problems
[02:12] <bmonty> hi everyone
[02:12] <crimsun> hi bmonty, StevenK
[02:12] <LaserJock> hi bmonty
[02:12] <bddebian> Hiya bmonty
[02:12] <bmonty> hi crimsun, LaserJock
[02:12] <bmonty> ....and bddebian!
[02:13] <bmonty> so merges are open now?
[02:14] <crimsun> ja
[02:14] <bmonty> what is the link to the merge page?
[02:15] <crimsun> the MoM list? I don't think there's an official one yet
[02:16] <bmonty> ok, so we can't really start working merges yet then
[02:16] <LaserJock> we can do them manually :-)
[02:16] <bddebian> Aye, if I weren't stupid :-)
[02:17] <bmonty> but there is no list to say which packages couldn't be merged automatically, right?
[02:17] <zul> hey hub
[02:18] <hub> hi
[02:18] <LaserJock> bmonty: if they are already merged then there is nothing for MoM to do I suppose
[02:18] <LaserJock> we have a list of what packages need syncing or merging
[02:18] <bmonty> url?
[02:20] <LaserJock> bmonty: http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/todolist.txt I guess
[02:21] <LaserJock> but I'm using my own list for MOTU Science
[02:21] <zul> heh arent you special ;)
[02:22] <LaserJock> zul: of course ;-)
[02:22] <LaserJock> not really, I make the list with lucas' program so ...
[02:24] <bmonty> I think it would make more sense to let MoM merge packages and then fix the ones that can't be done automatically
[02:24] <bmonty> or is the plan to not use MoM for edgy?
[02:25] <crimsun> afaik keybuk's poking MoM atm
[02:54] <zul> its going to work this time...i can feel it in my bones
[02:55] <LaserJock> hehe
[02:57] <bddebian> heh
[03:20] <zul> wohoo...it worked
[03:31] <carl_> apt-get source wine - is there a way I can specify verion 0..9.15 (current is 16)
[03:38] <crimsun> you can specify versions that are in the repo, sure.
[03:39] <crimsun> 0.9.9-0ubuntu2 is the version in the repo (in dapper)
[03:39] <crimsun> so no, by default you cannot get 0.9.15 or 0.9.16 or whatever.
[03:51] <carl_> thanks.
[03:52] <carl_> I found 12 and 16 - but no 15
[03:53] <crimsun> you must be using upstream's deb repo
[03:57] <carl_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BuildingWineFromSource
[03:58] <carl_> i followed that
[04:00] <bddebian> where the heck has ajmitch been, I haven't seen him for a couple of days?
[04:02] <crimsun> he's travelling to .au
[04:03] <bddebian> Ah
[04:04] <LaserJock> hmm, mentors.debian.net has been redone
[04:04] <ajmitch> bddebian: travelling, and coding :P
[04:04] <LaserJock> written in Python
[04:04] <crimsun> LaserJock: yeah, looks nicer.
[04:04] <bddebian> ajmitch: Well that is a switch..
[04:05] <LaserJock> I wonder if they made it more REVU like ;-)
[04:06] <ajmitch> bddebian: and this is why I should avoid here more often
[04:06] <bddebian> :-)
[04:06] <zul> both of you are slackers in my books
[04:07] <zul> hah..
[04:07] <ajmitch> thanks zul
[04:07] <zul> no problem
[04:12] <bddebian> Grrr
[04:12] <bddebian> cp: cannot stat `./debian/tmp/usr/lib/scilab/X11_defaults/': No such file or directory
[04:13] <ajmitch> so fix it then
[04:17] <bddebian> Well I want to just copy that dir over but these damn cdbs packages are just too "magical" for me
[04:47] <bddebian> crimsun: Any chance you could help me for a sec?
[05:27] <LaserJock> hi Hobbsee
[05:27] <Hobbsee> hi LaserJock
[05:29] <LaserJock> how's it going?
[05:30] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: not great, mum's angry at me.
[05:30] <Hobbsee> so if anyone wants to invite me out for the day or something, that'd be good hehe
[05:31] <bddebian> Sure, come on over ;-P
[05:32] <Hobbsee> hehe
[05:32] <bddebian> I think it would be a long ride for the day though ;-)
[05:34] <crimsun> bddebian: what's up?
[05:36] <bddebian> crimsun: I can't figure how how/where this crap is installing to
[05:36] <bddebian> All the install files point to debian/tmp/foo but that isn't where they are installed..?
[05:37] <crimsun> bddebian: what's the dh compat level?
[05:37] <bddebian> OH, heh, hmm ,hang on
[05:39] <bddebian> Is that in compat?
[05:39] <crimsun> debian/compat or exported from debian/rules
[05:39] <bddebian> compat has 4
[05:40] <crimsun> ok, so generally that will use debian/$package instead of debian/tmp. What does debian/rules do to install?
[05:40] <bddebian> The files are ending up in debian/$package/foo
[05:40] <bddebian> It's cdbs
[05:40] <crimsun> right, ok.
[05:40] <bddebian> How much detail do you want from install:?
[05:41] <crimsun> debian/rules posted will suffice
[05:44] <bddebian> http://pastebin.us/748
[05:46] <crimsun> bddebian: well, just looking at debian/rules, DESTDIR needs to be realigned
[05:47] <crimsun> why it's told to install into debian/tmp/usr is beyond me
[05:47] <crimsun> seems pretty wrong
[05:51] <crimsun> .oO( why is DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET even set? )
[05:53] <bddebian> Dunno, I "borrowed" the rules file from scilab 3.0 ;-)
[05:54] <crimsun> I'd start by killing that DEB_MAKE_INSTALL_TARGET line
[05:55] <bddebian> Should I remove that and make the .install files do $package/foo/bar ?
[05:55] <crimsun> yep, that's what I'd do
[05:56] <bddebian> Hmm, I still need a DESTDIR or --prefix don't I?
[05:57] <crimsun> only if it's not handled by cdbs
[05:57] <bddebian> OK
[06:01] <bddebian> Hmm, something just isn't right
[06:03] <crimsun> well, if something's not right, discard the old packaging and start afresh
[06:04] <Toadstool> 'morning
[06:04] <bddebian> Heya Toadstool
[06:04] <Toadstool> hi bddebian
[06:04] <Hobbsee> hi Toadstool
[06:04] <bddebian> crimsun: Well I thought about that but I know little to nothing about cdbs and I hate to change the build system
[06:05] <Toadstool> hey Hobbsee
[06:05] <crimsun> he's the maintainer, too, so you get to flame him
[06:05] <LaserJock> ouch
[06:08] <bddebian> Where's the best place to get that?
[06:08] <LaserJock> actually, if you find it lacking then you get to rewrite it ;-)
[06:08] <crimsun> System> Help> System Documentation
[06:08] <LaserJock> bddebian: on your computer
[06:08] <crimsun> (I think? I don't have yelp installed)
[06:08] <LaserJock> naughty crimsun
[06:09] <crimsun> hey, I've had to sacrifice to get pbuilders on this machine
[06:10] <bddebian> Pfft isn't there a web page somewhere
[06:10] <LaserJock> yes
[06:10] <LaserJock> go to help.ubuntu.com
[06:10] <bddebian> I don't have the Luxury of having my Ubuntu machines handy at all times :(
[06:10] <LaserJock> or you can buy a print copy at lulu.com/ubuntu-doc
[06:10] <bddebian> Ah OK, thx LaserJock
[06:12] <LaserJock> bddebian: yes, have an honest to goodness Ubuntu box to work on is indeed a luxury
[06:13] <bddebian> Well I have 3 Ubuntu boxes at work but I can't really "work" on them ;-)
[06:15] <LaserJock> the only Ubuntu box is a 1.3 GHz P4 with 256 MB of RAM and somebody else working on it :/
[06:15] <LaserJock> so I try to sneak a quick (yeah right) build in when I can
[06:16] <bddebian> Well I have 1 laptop with kUbuntu, a Dell P4 desktop with Ubuntu, and a Compaq Proliant ML350 that I killed trying to upgrade to edgy ;-)
[06:17] <crimsun> I have, uh, a Pentium 233 MMX.
[06:17] <bddebian> WHAT?
[06:18] <crimsun> this a state university. We don't have funds.
[06:18] <crimsun> (the Canonical-sponsored laptop doesn't count because it's not "mine")
[06:18] <bddebian> You have no machine of your own?
[06:18] <LaserJock> crimsun: that's what federal grant money is for
[06:19] <crimsun> LaserJock: hah, if only. In actuality, it goes to subsidize visas and foreign students (which is fine by me).
[06:20] <LaserJock> hmm, got us 4 new iMacs
[06:21] <LaserJock> but yeah, people cost a whole lot of money
[06:21] <bddebian> crimsun: I can get you a desktop if you want one.  Or possibly a laptop in a couple months but the laptops are harder to come by
[06:21] <crimsun> bddebian: I'm good, but thanks for the consideration
[06:21] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:22] <bddebian> jsgotangco: Where are you ?    And LaserJock
[06:34] <crimsun> 'night
[07:06] <TheMuso> Looks like MOM has not choaked yet.
[07:06] <TheMuso> is it the same as before? Do we file a bug report about the merging of packages we wish to take a lock on as it were?
[07:10] <LaserJock> TheMuso: not sure
[07:13] <crimsun> TheMuso: that's what people have been doing
[07:13] <TheMuso> crimsun: Ok thanks.
[07:13] <crimsun> I've been doing it differently; the packages I've touched are all in bzr
[07:14] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[07:14] <Hobbsee> i have a wishlist.   that we have a "developer" label that gets attached to our nicks at the forums :P
[07:14] <crimsun> if you're a Canonical employee, that's already the case
[07:14] <ajmitch> Hobbsee: I don't want a huge target like that hung round my neck
[07:14] <Hobbsee> haha
[07:14] <Hobbsee> good point
[07:15] <bluefoxicy> it wouldn't be around your neck
[07:15] <bluefoxicy> it'd be painted on your forehead
[07:15] <TheMuso> crimsun: What are you doing about your bzr trees? Are you using the new launchpad stuff to mirror/publish them?
[07:15] <LaserJock> ajmitch: you don't already?
[07:15] <crimsun> TheMuso: yep
[07:15] <TheMuso> Ok.
[07:15] <ajmitch> LaserJock: I don't post of the forums
[07:15] <ajmitch> s/of/on/
[07:15] <LaserJock> hmm
[07:18] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: having an Ubuntu member tag seems like a cool idea
[07:18] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: that it does
[07:18] <LaserJock> it does?
[07:19] <Hobbsee> no
[07:19] <Hobbsee> as in, that it does, as in, yes that sounds like a good idea.
[07:19] <LaserJock> ah
[07:19] <LaserJock> it's getting late and I'm still sick
[07:20] <LaserJock> hmm, maybe listing LP karama as well as the forum beans
[07:21] <crimsun> I dunno, I agree with ajmitch. We should have something like tor for ubuntuforums.
[07:21] <crimsun> "A Ubuntu member"
[07:21] <crimsun> which one? who knows?
[07:21] <Hobbsee> crimsun: something that makes us sound like we know what we're talking about
[07:22] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[07:22] <crimsun> Hobbsee: well, it wouldn't be like ubuntu.member.hobbsee. It'd be more like ubuntu.member.
[07:22] <Hobbsee> yes
[07:23] <crimsun> but being a member only implies long-standing contribution =)
[07:23] <Hobbsee> yeah
[08:38] <antinobody> hello rraphink
[08:48] <rraphink> yo antinobody
[08:49] <antinobody> rraphink I hear tell of an impending REVU day?
[08:50] <rraphink> antinobody: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-motu ML?
[08:50] <lucas> anybody has some news about the merge run ?
[08:50] <antinobody> rraphink pienso
[08:50] <lucas> seems not all merges were generated
[08:50] <lucas> (or maybe only main ones ?)
[08:51] <TheMuso> Universe packages were also done.
[08:51] <TheMuso> As far as I can see.
[08:52] <lucas> not all of them, then ?
[08:52] <TheMuso> Probably not.
[08:52] <TheMuso> Hrad to tell since all the dirs appear to be there that are normally there in the archive.
[08:52] <TheMuso> I haven't really had a good look I must say.
[08:52] <lucas> librmagick-ruby is missing, for example
[08:53] <TheMuso> Well perhaps the debian/ubuntu versions were the same, or something. I dunno. I was expecting a particular package to be there, and it wasn't, so unless something hsa really gone wrong somewhere, I expect that things are ok.
[08:53] <TheMuso> You'd have to ask keybuk ok.
[08:53] <TheMuso> s/ok/however/
[08:58] <antinobody> Where do I look for non-kubuntu packages that need merging?  Or is there anywhere?
[08:59] <Hobbsee> antinobody: there was a list on the mailing list
[09:00] <Hobbsee> http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/mergescountdown/todolist.txt
[09:00] <Hobbsee> i think
[09:00] <lucas> my list includes both main and universe packages, so it might not be a good idea
[09:00] <antinobody> Hobbsee: I remember that, but I wondered if there wasn't something on launchpad
[09:01] <Hobbsee> ah ok
[09:01] <Hobbsee> there migth be
[09:01] <lucas> if you are interested in a specific subset of packages, you could use multidistrotools to generate something such as http://tiber.tauware.de/~lucas/versions/ruby-packages.html
[09:01] <antinobody> lucas one problem is knowing which one's are done?
[09:02] <TheMuso> Is edgy safe to dist-upgrade to yet?
[09:02] <lucas> well, you are probably supposed to file a bug
[09:02] <lucas> TheMuso: no
[09:02] <lucas> TheMuso: use a chroot
[09:02] <TheMuso> Thats what I am thinking. Thanks.
[09:02] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: upgrade anyway :P
[09:03] <crimsun> TheMuso: yes, it is. Well, save udev among others is broken.
[09:03] <crimsun> You might need a working udev.
[09:03] <crimsun> I hear that's overrated, though.
[09:03] <TheMuso> Meh. Will go with chroot then. I set asside partitions for this very reason.
[09:03] <Hobbsee> hmm.
[09:03] <antinobody> I've been using it for a while, actually
[09:03] <crimsun> 'lo mith
[09:03] <TheMuso> Hey Mithrandir.
[09:03] <antinobody> Then again, I probably wouldn't know if the thing was broken or not
[09:03] <antinobody> hola Mithrandir
[09:04] <lucas> probably is, it's probably quite ok to dist-upgrade to edgy now, but it might not be in the next days :-)
[09:06] <Hobbsee> hi Mithrandir!
[09:06] <Hobbsee> lucas: what in particular is happening in the next few days?
[09:07] <lucas> Hobbsee: people start merging stuff
[09:07] <antinobody> Oh, I'm sure I won't break ALL the packages I merge
[09:07] <Hobbsee> lucas: true, i was thinking in terms of major breakage, although i guess that counts
[09:07] <Hobbsee> hehe
[09:13] <antinobody> Why do I punish myself with these classes?
[09:14] <crimsun> so you can appreciate the clarity of blaming yourself for coding incorrectly.
[09:15] <crimsun> coding complexity pales in comparison to human complexity.
[09:15] <antinobody> crimsun: you make a bizarre kind of sense
[09:15] <crimsun> everything's bizarre at quarter past three in the morning.
[09:16] <crimsun> alright, I'm starting my merges with 'z' and working backward.
[09:16] <antinobody> it's also bizarre at quarter past 12 in the morning, on the other side of the country
[09:35] <crimsun> I'm pretty sure these merges are for main only.
[09:35] <crimsun> oh wait, no
[09:36] <crimsun> here are some universe ones in 'n'.
[10:04] <crimsun> nope, these are main.
[10:06] <TheMuso> crimsun: I did see one package from universe in s.
[10:15] <zakame> hi
[10:16] <crimsun> hi zak
[10:17] <zakame> hello crimsun
[10:17] <zakame> so MoM has started
[10:17] <tseng> yes, it has
[11:06] <rob> have revu been fixed yet?
[11:17] <aoneko> hello eveyone
[11:38] <sivang> morning
[11:38] <Hobbsee> morning sivang
[11:38] <rob> hi
[11:38] <jsgotangco> hi sivang!
[11:39] <rob> so foolish me tried to upload again thinking revu was fixed..
[11:40] <rob> Error '553 Could not create file.' during ftp transfer of dolphin_0.5.2-0ubuntu1.dsc
[11:45] <sivang> re rob , jsgotangco
[01:21] <Kamion> could a member of ubuntu-dev please confirm #50995?
[01:23] <Mez> malone 50995
[01:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 50995 in wide-dhcpv6 "Please sync wide-dhcpv6 (universe) from unstable" [Untriaged,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/50995
[01:23] <Kamion> Toadstool: (sorry, but for hopefully obvious reasons we need confirmation of sync requests from somebody who could ordinarily upload the package in question)
[01:24] <Mez> Toadstool, do you have access to REVU?
[01:24] <Kamion> revu does sync reviews as well as merge reviews?
[01:25] <Kamion> seems a bit pointless, you can just download the source package from Debian :)
[01:25] <Mez> oh sorry -thought it was a merge :D
[01:25] <Mez> I'll download and check it in a pbuilder :d
[01:26] <Kamion> I don't give a damn about build checking, I want confirmation that all the existing Ubuntu patches have been applied
[01:26] <Toadstool> hi Kamion, Mez
[01:26] <Kamion> the buildds are perfectly good at finding out whether it builds :)
[01:26] <Mez> Kamion, and that - dont worry - I know what I'm doing
[01:26] <Mez> lol
[01:26] <Kamion> personally I'd advise that you guys not overly waste time on pbuilder-checking syncs
[01:26] <Mez> if I could get putty to work
[01:27] <chuck> heylo
[01:27] <Toadstool> Kamion: yeah, ok, I understand a motu has to check :)
[01:27] <Toadstool> hi chuck
[01:28] <sivang> Kamion: have you already synced the source?
[01:28] <Kamion> sivang: no
[01:28] <Kamion> I'm asking for confirmation from an ubuntu-dev member before syncing the source
[01:28] <Mez> Kamion: looking at the changelog-  looks like the upload to ubuntu was just that - an upload... or the author wasnt very descriptive in his changelog
[01:28] <sivang> Kamion: so the check needed is to see if upstream (debian) applied all our patches in?
[01:28] <Kamion> sivang: yes
[01:29] <sivang> Kamion: okay, I can do that if you give me some minutes :-)
[01:29] <zul> Kamion: do you want me to sync grub and grub-installer tonight?
[01:29] <Toadstool> Mez: i'm the packager and i didn't know about syncs when I first put this package on REVU
[01:30] <Toadstool> that's why the changelog entry is so... useless :p
[01:30] <Mez> I'll let sivang do it - I cant get putty working :(
[01:30] <Kamion> zul: not grub-installer please
[01:31] <Kamion> feel free to do grub though
[01:31] <zul> Kamion: not a problem
[01:39] <sivang> hmm, searching on p.d.o takes ages
[01:43] <sivang> screw it, I'll set up a debian chroot
[01:43] <Toadstool> sivang: you can use packages.qa.debian.org too
[01:44] <Kamion> http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/wide-dhcpv6/
[01:44] <Kamion> no need to search
[01:44] <Toadstool> indeed
[01:45] <AnAnt> is there something wrong with REVU today ?
[01:45] <sivang> Kamion: ah, right , DoH
[01:45] <AnAnt> I uploaded two programs there, but I don't see them on website
[01:46] <sivang> Kamion: thanks
[01:47] <Gloubiboulga> AnAnt, it seems that there's a problem with the uploads
[01:47] <AnAnt> Gloubiboulga: ok, I was afraid that the problem is on my side
[01:59] <sivang> Kamion: sid's version has extra 08_common.h-missing-macros.dpatch , other wise they are the same
[02:01] <Toadstool> sivang: look at debian/patches/00list, this patch is disabled :)
[02:01] <Toadstool> just kept it for history :p
[02:01] <sivang> Toadstool: ah, doh, right :-)
[02:01] <sivang> Kamion: so it's good to sync :)
[02:02] <Kamion> sivang: ok, thanks
[02:02] <Toadstool> thanks sivang :)
[02:02] <Toadstool> and Kamion :)
[02:02] <sivang> Toadstool: my pleasure :)
[02:02] <Toadstool> heh
[02:03] <sivang> ;-)
[02:09] <neenaoffline> Toadstool: ping , I've compiled SLIM , but need some help can I pm you?
[02:10] <Toadstool> neenaoffline: quickly, yes, I'll have to leave in a few minutes
[02:11] <neenaoffline> Toadstool: pm'ed you !?!
[02:17] <neenaoffline> Toadstool: Thanks :)
[02:38] <jenda> Where can one access the repos through html - if possible at all?
[02:47] <Hobbsee> jenda: packages.ubuntu.com
[02:47] <jenda> thanks :)
[03:01] <Riddell> who wants to play the name to face game?!
[03:01] <imbrandon> face game ?
[03:01] <Riddell> only 6 gaps left
[03:01] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/group-photo.txt
[03:01] <Riddell> http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/ubuntu-distro-summit-paris-group.jpg
[03:02] <jsgotangco> lol
[03:02] <imbrandon> heh i wouldent know any of them ;)
[03:02] <jsgotangco> i think that's Troy Sobotka or something beside seb
[03:03] <Hobbsee> ah ha!  i got some of them!
[03:03] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: top left :P
[03:03] <Hobbsee> that's one of the few i could pick!
[03:03] <imbrandon> hehe
[03:03] <Riddell> ah, artwork Troy
[03:03] <jsgotangco> the forum guy is Roald Hopman
[03:04] <jsgotangco> beside BjornT is Frank Schoep i think
[03:04] <lifeless> yes
[03:04] <lifeless> it is
[03:05] <lifeless> the guy bside keybuk was teh anthropologist
[03:05] <jsgotangco> this is a really nice group photo
[03:05] <Hobbsee> jsgotangco: indeed
[03:06] <imbrandon> yea
[03:06] <Hobbsee> and i'm not in it - awesome!
[03:06] <imbrandon> lol @ Hobbsee
[03:06] <TheMuso> Hobbsee: um... Why is that awesome?
[03:06] <imbrandon> next release season ;)
[03:06] <imbrandon> nah Hobbsee you just drive on the wrong side of the car ;)
[03:07] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:07] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: because i hate photos, and they always look like absolute *crap* with me in them!
[03:07] <TheMuso> I don't believe that for one second.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: it's so true, i usually end up with one really white eye.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> so it looks a bit like i've only got one eye
[03:08] <Hobbsee> or i get really bad red eye
[03:08] <TheMuso> I'll take your word for it.
[03:08] <Hobbsee> hehe
[03:11] <imbrandon> p.d.o is SLOW
[03:11] <TheMuso> Hey StevenK.
[03:11] <Hobbsee> it's always slow
[03:11] <Hobbsee> hiya StevenK
[03:11] <ajmitch> good evening StevenK
[03:11] <imbrandon> sup StevenK
[03:12] <TheMuso> Do you two know each other in real life?
[03:12] <StevenK> Ish
[03:13] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[03:13] <ajmitch> 'real life'?
[03:13] <zul> Hobbsee: its because you always have red eye isnt it
[03:13] <imbrandon> ajmitch probbably "in person" ;)
[03:13] <Hobbsee> haha
[03:13] <Hobbsee> TheMuso: not yet.
[03:13] <TheMuso> Right.
[03:14] <ajmitch> imbrandon: isn't irc 'in person'? :)
[03:14] <imbrandon> ajmitch its about as much "in person" as talking to someone on the phone ;)
[03:14] <Hobbsee> imbrandon: well, that works too :P
[03:14] <imbrandon> in person means "face to face" to me
[03:14] <imbrandon> ;0
[03:15] <Riddell> anyone know the bold guy between klaus and jim here?  http://bootsplash.org/_DSC8015.JPG
[03:15] <Riddell> jsgotangco, lifeless ^^
[03:15] <ajmitch> imbrandon: oh right
[03:17] <zul> and they ran away screaming
[03:17] <imbrandon> lol
[03:17] <ajmitch> of course
[03:17] <ajmitch> they never let me out of the country after that...
[03:17] <jsgotangco> Riddell: sebastian heinlein (glatzor)
[03:18] <zul> well they let you in australia for some reason
[03:18] <jsgotangco> beside celso
[03:18] <ajmitch> zul: fools..
[03:18] <DanielC> What is the process for contributing your very first package to Ubuntu if you are just a regular guy like me?
[03:18] <zul> upload to revu
[03:18] <Riddell> thanks jsgotangco
[03:18] <jsgotangco> revu
[03:18] <DanielC> zul: Maybe I should talk to someone about what I want to contribute and find out if it's ok...
[03:19] <ajmitch> DanielC: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU being the info about REVU
[03:19] <DanielC> *click*
[03:20] <DanielC> Ok, so REVU is the method of getting comments on a proposed package...
[03:20] <ajmitch> yes, it's somewhere that you can upload a package & we can view it
[03:20] <ajmitch> and comment on it
[03:20] <ajmitch> and then once approved, a MOTU uploads it
[03:20] <DanielC> My idea is simple. There is a very good user guide for OpenOffice.org and I'd like a package that downloads it and puts it somewhere like /usr/share/doc
[03:20] <DanielC> Would this be alright?
[03:21] <ajmitch> is the user guide not redistributable by itself?
[03:21] <DanielC> The license is GPL and Creative Commons By.
[03:21] <DanielC> yes it is.
[03:21] <DanielC> it's free as in freedom.
[03:21] <ajmitch> then it may be better to package the guide itself, rather than making an installer package
[03:22] <DanielC> I just thought that having it available in synaptic would make more people find it.
[03:22] <DanielC> e.g. if you search for "OpenOffice" you'd see it.
[03:22] <ajmitch> sure
[03:22] <tuxmaniac> DanielC> Ah. Ok.
[03:22] <DanielC> :)
[03:23] <DanielC> I could try to get fancy and add a menu entry to it somewhere. Either in OOo or the Gnome menus. How would the MOTUs feel about that?
[03:23] <DanielC> Is it ok to fiddle with menus?
[03:23] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:25] <DanielC> I'll take this silence to mean that there is no straight answer to my question. :)
[03:25] <shawarma> Is it possible to mess up a package so bad that it doesn't even show up on revu?
[03:25] <DanielC> Are there any naming conventions I should observe?
[03:26] <tuxmaniac> DanielC> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html
[03:26] <ajmitch> shawarma: yep
[03:26] <DanielC> *click*
[03:26] <ajmitch> shawarma: what did you break?
[03:26] <tuxmaniac> DanielC> http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/
[03:26] <DanielC> Thanks.
[03:28] <shawarma> ajmitch: libgfshare. can you just remove it?
[03:29] <ajmitch> shawarma: sure
[03:29] <ajmitch> done
[03:30] <shawarma> Excellent.
[03:30] <shawarma> thanks
[03:57] <DanielC> Would it be alright to call the package 'openoffice.org-guide' ?
[03:57] <DanielC> That would make the package easier to find and its function obvious from the name.
[04:08] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:08] <jsgotangco> hey
[04:09] <bddebian> Hi jsgotangco
[04:09] <jsgotangco> hey
[04:11] <DanielC> Do I need to install lintian and linda if I just want to make my own packages?
[04:11] <DanielC> (to submit to universe)
[04:11] <lifeless> you should install lintian
[04:11] <DanielC> ok
[04:11] <lifeless> IIRC that comes in with devscripts
[04:11] <DanielC> It doesn't actually...
[04:12] <DanielC> I ask because it has a lot of dependencies (most related to libxml).
[04:12] <Hawkwind> So install libxml
[04:12] <Hawkwind> It got installed here when I installed devscripts
[04:13] <DanielC> It's not libxml, but several things related to it. I assume they are libraries built on top, or language bindings. But yes, I bit the bullet and installed it all.
[04:14] <Mithrandir> if you're going to do package work you'll end up installing lots of stuff.  Just get over it.
[04:15] <sivang> DanielC: if you're concerned about installed dependencies, you can always use a chroot for that
[04:15] <DanielC> Thanks.
[04:16] <DanielC> I don't actually mind installing stuff I need. It was really just a question.
[04:16] <DanielC> What's a few megabytes for a modern hard disk?
[04:16] <DanielC> :)
[04:36] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: ping
[05:05] <Hobbsee> bddebian: ping
[05:06] <bddebian> Yo
[05:06] <Hobbsee> bddebian: want to upload for me?
[05:06] <Hobbsee> bddebian: you know you want to :P
[05:07] <Toadstool> *silence*
[05:07] <Toadstool> Hobbsee: not enough convincing :)
[05:08] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: you could, if you wanted :P
[05:08] <Toadstool> yeah well if I was a motu I might consider it ;)
[05:09] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: you're not?
[05:09] <bddebian> Toadstool: So, sign up :-)
[05:09] <Hobbsee> haha
[05:10] <Toadstool> bddebian: I'm planning to, just a few more packages in universe and I'll try
[05:10] <bddebian> :-)
[05:10] <bddebian> You can take my place.  I'm useless lately :'-(
[05:10] <Toadstool> some wise devs told me only one package is not enough to check my packaging skills :p
[05:10] <DanielC> Question: In the debian/control file, what is the code name for the section "Documentation (universe)" ?
[05:11] <Toadstool> DanielC: doc
[05:11] <DanielC> Thanks.
[05:11] <Toadstool> :)
[05:12] <Toadstool> bddebian: you're not that useless you know :)
[05:13] <bddebian> Bah :-)
[05:14] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: haha, true
[05:15] <Toadstool> grah... is REVU broken?
[05:15] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: i think so, my upload isnt showing
[05:15] <Toadstool> yeah, mine as well
[05:16] <Hobbsee> Toadstool: well, i could call up ajmitch and yell at him, if he has his mobile on :P
[05:16] <Toadstool> heh
[05:17] <zul> yeeah i bet he would love that
[05:17] <Hobbsee> could be fun to try though.
[05:17] <zul> do it in a whiney voice, and then go is it done yet how about now
[05:17] <bddebian> heh
[05:17] <DanielC> In debian/control, is it alright to leave Depends: blank? The package in question is just a user guide, it doesn't depend on anything.
[05:18] <bddebian> DanielC: Yes
[05:18] <DanielC> Thanks.
[05:38] <jsgotangco> goodnight
[05:38] <bddebian> Gnight jsgotangco
[05:39] <DanielC> In debian/copyright, in the Authors section, what if the package has 24 authors? Do I list them all? If so, is it a comma-separated list as one big line?
[05:39] <azeem> it's mostly free-form I think
[05:40] <DanielC> ok, can it span multiple lines?
[05:40] <azeem> yeah, I think so
[05:40] <DanielC> thanks
[05:40] <DanielC> Names preceded by a space I guess?
[05:41] <DanielC> Or you mean that the whole 'copyright' file is free form?
[05:42] <azeem> DanielC: there's no mandated form, but most people follow one, yes
[05:42] <azeem> I am not sure where you want to put a space
[05:43] <DanielC> Ok. So I'll just do something that looks very similar to the sample on the packaging guide.
[05:50] <DanielC> This file doesn't require compilation. Can I just leave the "rules" file blank?  (i.e.  `touch debian/rules`).
[05:52] <Laser_away> Hobbsee: pong?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: do we have documentation somewhere on chroots, or how to check if a deb installs in a pbuilder?
[05:53] <Hobbsee> i hear both are possible, but neither is documented terribly well, that i can see
[05:53] <imbrandon> pbuilder login
[05:54] <imbrandon> dpkg-query -l|grep <pkg>|grep ii
[05:54] <Laser_away> Hobbsee: the packaging guide has a section on how to make a chroot
[05:54] <Hobbsee> Laser_away: i couldnt find it, but okay
[05:54] <imbrandon> hold on Hobbsee i got it bookmarked
[05:55] <Laser_away> https://help.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/appendix-chroot.html
[05:55] <fbond> any news on status of REVU repairs?
[05:55] <imbrandon> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[05:55] <Hobbsee> right, ok, thanks
[05:57] <bddebian> Hmm, why would my pbuilder apt cache not be getting updated?
[05:59] <Hobbsee> bddebian: try with override config?
[05:59] <Hobbsee> or just delete it, then recreate
[05:59] <bddebian> I always run update with override-config
[06:00] <Hobbsee> weird
[06:04] <bddebian> Isn't there some way inside of pbuilder login to save my changes on exit?
[06:17] <zakame> pbuilder login --save-after-login?
[06:17] <zakame> erm, inside, my bad
[06:22] <bddebian> zakame: ?
[06:24] <zakame> bddebian: well you'd do pbuilder login --save-after-login to get into the chroot, do stuff there, and exit, saving changes
[06:24] <bddebian> Ah, thanks
[06:24] <zakame> but since you said `inside of pbuilder', that's a bit more trickier
[06:24] <zakame> (i.e., when you've done a pbuilder login already)
[06:25] <bddebian> zakame: No, you hit what I meant :-)
[06:25] <zakame> ah, that's good :)
[06:26] <zakame> anyhow, gn8, I see none of my previously-merged pkgs are in MoM now :/
[06:26] <bddebian> Doh
[06:26] <bddebian> Gnight zakame
[06:26] <bddebian> zakame: Oh, good, leaves you plenty of time to work on X then ;-P
[06:27] <bddebian> OK, I am getting pissed off.  sudo pbuild-edgy login; apt-get update && apt-get install x11proto-gl-dev  works fine
[06:27] <bddebian> sudo pbuild-edgy build foo.dsc which build-deps x11proto-gl-dev fails
[06:27] <bddebian> WTF?
[06:28] <zakame> log?
[06:28] <bddebian> Of what, the build error?
[06:28] <zakame> yeah
[06:28] <bddebian> Building dependency tree... Done
[06:28] <bddebian> E: Couldn't find package x11proto-gl-dev
[06:28] <bddebian> W: Unable to locate package x11proto-gl-dev
[06:28] <bddebian> E: Could not satisfy build-dependency.
[06:28] <bddebian> E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed.
[06:30] <zakame> hm weird
[06:32] <bddebian> zakame: Aye, no kidding :-)
[06:35] <bddebian> zakame: Any ideas?
[07:23] <siretart> hi folks
[07:27] <shawarma> The revu queue is still processed every 5 minutes, right?
[07:27] <jpatrick> think so
[07:28] <shawarma> Can anyone see what's happening with my upload of libgfshare?
[07:30] <shawarma> Well, apart from "not much" :-)
[07:32] <shawarma> hmm.. be back in an hour.. maybe something has happened by then. :-)
[07:49] <siretart> shawarma: could you please join the launchpad group 'ubuntu-universe-contributors' and ping me again?
[07:49] <siretart> hey rraphink
[07:49] <bddebian> Hi siretart, rraphink
[07:49] <siretart> huhu bddebian
[07:50] <sivang> siretart: do you have to be in that team to be able to upload to REVU?
[07:50] <rraphink> hi bddebian && siretart
[07:50] <allee> bddebian: apt-get update does not run before a pbuild.  Try sudo pbuild-edgy login; apt-get install x11proto-gl-dev
[07:50] <raphink> sivang: from now on, yes
[07:50] <allee> hi raphink
[07:51] <raphink> hi allee :)
[07:51] <sivang> raphink: ah nice, using launchpad's auth server ?
[07:51] <siretart> sivang: the plan is to implement 'real' launchpad authentication
[07:51] <raphink> sivang: not yet, just using LP GPG keys
[07:51] <sivang> ah...
[07:51] <siretart> sivang: up to know, the keyring (and only the keyring) is synced from the launchpad group
[07:51] <sivang> siretart: and before it was just done manually?
[07:51] <siretart> sivang: yepp
[07:51] <raphink> yes sivang
[07:52] <sivang> I see
[07:52] <raphink> we would add each key manually
[07:52] <sivang> nice, so this is not just as the archive works
[07:52] <sivang> as when someone is approved for ubuntu-dev, the archive tools automatically white least his GPG key
[07:52] <sivang> (for upload)
[07:52] <sivang> s/not//
[07:53] <bddebian> allee: I know thanks but I ran sudo pbuilder update --override-config prior to the build attempt
[07:53] <sivang> siretart: yes, it's probably a good plan to use LP's authentication for that sort of things
[07:53] <Toadstool> re
[07:53] <bddebian> wb Toadstool
[07:54] <Toadstool> ah we have to join 'ubuntu-universe-contributors' to be able to upload to REVU now?
[07:54] <Toadstool> nice
[07:54] <raphink> hi Toadstool
[07:54] <Toadstool> hey raphink
[08:34] <Laser_away> siretart: ping?
[08:36] <LaserJock> brb
[08:39] <siretart> laserJock: pong
[09:48] <shawarma> Anyone care to review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=2521 (libgfshare) ?
[09:49] <LaserJock> siretart: unping, sorry
[09:49] <slomo_> shawarma: hm, isn't this library by Kinnison? i wonder why he didn't package it himself yet :)
[09:50] <shawarma> slomo_: Yes, it is. He didn't even want the /debian dir in his bzr repository. :-)
[09:51] <slomo_> shawarma: i wouldn't want it to be there too :P any idea why doesn't he want to package it?
[09:51] <shawarma> slomo_: Nope.
[09:52] <shawarma> slomo_: He DOES know that I'm uploading it.
[09:53] <slomo_> ok... i'll take a look at it then :)
[09:55] <slomo_> shawarma: don't install lib*.so.* in the -dev package... only in the runtime one
[09:55] <slomo_> shawarma: i would also recommend to use debhelper compat level 5 (and b-d on debhelper (>= 5)) and don't shipping the .la file
[09:55] <shawarma> slomo_: Hmm... I wonder why lintian doesn't bitch about that.
[09:56] <slomo_> on the .deb packages it probably does ;)
[09:56] <shawarma> slomo_: Nope.
[09:56] <shawarma> slomo_: Quiet as a grave.
[09:56] <slomo_> weird
[09:56] <shawarma> slomo_: But -dev is just .a and the headers?
[09:56] <slomo_> and the .so link
[09:57] <slomo_> (and .la if you want to ship it)
[09:57] <shawarma> but that's not the usual procedure?
[09:58] <shawarma> shipping the .la, that is.
[09:58] <slomo_> they caused problems in the past and now everybody wants to drop them if possible
[09:58] <shawarma> slomo_: Ok.
[09:59] <shawarma> slomo_: Why up the dependency on debhelper? It works fine with less, so why put stricter dependencies on it?
[10:00] <slomo_> libgfshare-dev should also depend on libc6-dev
[10:00] <shawarma> slomo_: "debhelper compat level" means debian/compat, right?
[10:00] <slomo_> yes
[10:00] <slomo_> and if you raise that you need to raise the required debhelper version too
[10:01] <shawarma> slomo_: Ah. good point.
[10:01] <shawarma> slomo_: Shouldn't the libc6-dev dependency be added automatically by something? Like dh_shlibdeps or something?
[10:01] <slomo_> and update Standards-Version to 3.7.2
[10:01] <slomo_> no you have to add it yourself
[10:01] <slomo_> dh_shlibdeps only adds dependencies on shared libraries
[10:01] <shawarma> Hmm... We should really fix dh_make to set these things correctly.
[10:02] <shawarma> slomo_: Ah. Yeah, that makes sense
[10:02] <slomo_> hm and i remember that your name was written with  instead of o ;)
[10:02] <bddebian> OK, I have determined that cdbs sucks :-)
[10:02] <slomo_> other than the package is fine
[10:02] <slomo_> bddebian: why? ;)
[10:03] <bddebian> slomo_: Too much "magic", I can't tell wtf it's doing :)
[10:03] <LaserJock> bddebian: have you read the pertanent .mk files?
[10:04] <slomo_> shawarma: ping me when you uploaded an updated version :)
[10:05] <Toadstool> bddebian: it's not that much "magic" when you've read some of the files in /usr/share/cdbs ;)
[10:05] <shawarma> slomo_: Sure. Thanks!
[10:05] <LaserJock> shawarma: take a penalty card and say that you are doing so ;-)
[10:06] <shawarma> LaserJock: LOL!
[10:06] <shawarma> slomo_: changelog is in utf-8?
[10:06] <slomo_> yes
[10:06] <slomo_> but it must be the same as in your gpg key id
[10:06] <LaserJock> I'm starting to see a relationship between mao and packaging
[10:07] <slomo_> so if you have o there don't change it or make a new uid ;)
[10:08] <slomo_> LaserJock: now you know why everybody was playing mao ;)
[10:09] <shawarma> slomo_: Good point.
[10:12] <bddebian> Toadstool: Well I read LaserJock's document and that didn't help :-)
[10:13] <LaserJock> doesn't suprise me
[10:13] <LaserJock> I don't know anything about CDBS really
[10:13] <LaserJock> well, I know the concept, I just have never needed to use it
[10:15] <shawarma> slomo_: http://revu.tauware.de/diff.py?upid1=2521&upid2=2522
[10:17] <slomo_> shawarma: ok, advocated :)
[10:19] <shawarma> slomo_: Cool. Thanks!
[10:23] <sivang> shawarma: does Kinnison know you are using cdbs for that? :)
[10:25] <_ion> There should be a standard for HTTP authentication by signing a challenge string with your PGP key. Of course browsers would present the whole thing to the luser with a neat, simple UI.
[10:28] <shawarma> sivang: I've told. Maybe he wasn't listening. :-)
[10:28] <shawarma> sivang: Is he not fond of it?
[10:32] <sivang> shawarma: IIRC, to say the lesat of it :-D
[10:32] <shawarma> sivang: Well... Sucks to be him then. :-)
[10:33] <shawarma> sivang: Maybe that's why he was alright with me maintaining it in Ubuntu. :-)
[10:34] <_ion> cdbs sucks, it makes things too easy and maintainable. debhelper sucks, it makes things too easy and maintainable. Oh, and we shouldn't be using file systems either, they make things too easy.
[10:34] <bddebian> huh?
[10:34] <_ion> Just joking.
[10:34] <_ion> While being very tired, i might add. :-)
[10:40] <shawarma> _ion: IIRC, you are free to define your own authentication methods in http.
[10:43] <_ion> shawarma: I'd like to stress the word "standard". Let's say i define such an authentication method. No browser is going to support it, and neither are the popular webapp frameworks.
[10:44] <_ion> Such a thing should come from W3C or something. :-)
[10:47] <shawarma> _ion: You could propose it. :-)
[10:50] <shawarma> _ion: it doesn't differ a lot from client certificates, though.
[10:51] <_ion> The existing PGP infrastructure (keyservers, web of trust) could be used for many cool things. I'd like to see a PGP-based solution instead of one using SSL certs.
[10:52] <_ion> "Note: As of NCSA HTTPd 1.4.1, support for PEM/PGP encryption was removed in order to bring NCSA in compliance with the Internation Treaty on Arms Reduction to which the United States of America is a signatory. We hope to have an improved version available with NCSA HTTPd 1.5 from an export controlled server."


[02:41] <mcafeemedia> Anyone active atm?
[02:42] <mcafeemedia> Well when someone sees this, the help.ubuntu.com/community/SurroundSound page links to porn or somekind of adware b/c of a broken link under the "Enabling Surround Sound" heading the automaticable link
[02:43] <mcafeemedia> has been taken over by a malicious site


[01:07] <Guest3> Hey guys! I'm interested in contributing documentation to Lubuntu. Where would I start to do that?
[01:11] <Guest3> I know Markdown, I've made man pages by hand, I have a working knowledge of HTML, and I know how to use LibreOffice.
 well sadly the manual is actually written in restructed text which is like mardown but different
[01:14] <Guest3> OK! I've learned multiple programming languages, so a new documentation language shouldn't be that hard.
[01:16] <Guest3> Looking at RST on Wikipedia, looks easy enough. I've found the documentation and the online editor, so I can learn it.
[01:23] <Guest3> OK, that'll give me something to work on. Once I've gotten RST down, what's an area that needs some documentation written for it? Are there any TODOs that I can fill in?
[02:17] <guiverc> Guest3, rather than wait for replies on IRC, putting a request on the Lubuntu discourse/forum may allow people to respond, suggest as they have some.  Note we've just released our latest, so currently where's in a quiet/rest period before we start working on the next cycle (Lubuntu 22.10)
[02:18] <guiverc> s/where's in/we're in/ ^
[02:18] <Guest3> Thank you very much! I'll look into Discourse.
[02:18] <guiverc> https://discourse.lubuntu.me/
[02:20] <guiverc> We also have a documentation section on the discourse; usually small pieces (rarely needed, interest on a few or other), or stuff that isn't good enough for the manual
[02:21] <Guest3> Nice. If it's OK for me to ask while you're right here, what accounts should I get so that I can contribute documentation (other than the Discourse account, of course)? Or do I just send patches to the development mailing list, or something?
[02:22] <guiverc> I'd likely recommend a phab account ; it's where we track much development work - https://phab.lubuntu.me/
[02:23] <guiverc> ps:  I like to know when people request access; so I know who is requesting..  https://discourse.lubuntu.me/t/requesting-a-phab-account-be-created/2680
[02:24] <guiverc> you can PM your email you'll use, send me PM via discourse, even public (here, discourse) and I'll approve it when I see it; do whatever works for you.
[02:26] <Guest3> OK. So, like, I send you my email, and you're able to give me the required lubuntu.me email or whatever so that I can make the Phabricator account? (Sorry if these are silly questions - I have no idea what I'm doing as far as contributing to an open-source project...)
[02:27] <guiverc> Lubuntu membership gets you a @lubuntu.me email; ie. as recognition of "significant and sustained contributions to Lubuntu" ; https://phab.lubuntu.me/w/membership/
[02:27] <guiverc> I was referring to what email you'll use to request phab access.. so I recognize it & can 'approve' it.
[02:29] <guiverc> The reason I suggest giving me the email is most requests are from spammers wanting access for their spam activities; if I know what email is legitimate because of conversations like this I can approve quickly; instead of having to verify details given (which usually are very minimal)
[02:35] <guiverc> you can use a github SSO to login/register on phab if you have one if easier
[02:36] <Guest3> OK, that makes sense.
 Kinetic Kudo - https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/kinetic-kudu-release-notes/27976
[22:57] <kgiii> @leokolb Thanks!


[00:25] <karstensrage> whats involved in getting backport bugs addressed
[00:31] <lamont> I don't like it when apt-get dist-upgrade says this:
[00:31] <lamont> Fetched 7,012 kB in 25s (275 kB/s)
[00:31] <lamont> Segmentation fault
[00:33] <karstensrage> is that 16.04?
[00:36] <GunnarHj> karstensrage: Ping someone in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-backporters
[00:42] <karstensrage> anyone? there are only 10?
[00:43] <karstensrage> the pending members have been pending for quite some time O.O
[00:45] <karstensrage> broder, maybe you might be interested?
[00:59] <karstensrage> whats the criteria for backporting new
[00:59] <karstensrage> stuff
[14:19] <fastercat> Is there any additonal debug output I can turn on for a video driver?
[14:20] <fastercat> It is crashing with cryptic messages like NVRM: os_schedule: Attempted to yield the CPU while in atomic or interrupt context
[14:20] <fastercat> and a lot of NVRM: Xid (PCI:0000:07:00): 3, C 00000002 SC 00000003 M 00000104 Data 00000000
[14:21] <fastercat> It is:07:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation G98 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 2] (rev a1)
[17:14] <Unit193> zigo: LP 1562358 finally filed, along with LP 1562356.  Just FYI.
[19:19] <juliank> lamont: If the crash was in xenial, apt 1.2.8 fixes a known segfault. It just needs to be synced. It would still make sense to have a full backtrace, if possible.
[19:20] <juliank> Oh wait, no, 1.2.8 fixes an update segfault.
[19:20] <juliank> So a full bt would be *really* useful
[19:22] <juliank> If it's APT that's crashing, otherwise I don't care :)
[21:00] <infinity> Skuggen: usr/include/mysql/mysql/client_plugin.h:103:38: fatal error: mysql/plugin_auth_common.h: No such file or directory
[21:00] <infinity> compilation terminated.
[21:00] <infinity> Skuggen: MySQL's fault, or mythtv's?
[21:13] <infinity> superm1: mythtv seems to hate you.
[21:15] <Skuggen> infinity: mysql.h includes mysql/client_plugin.h in 5.7, and didn't in 5.6
[21:15] <Skuggen> It needs include/mysql on the include path to work
[21:16] <infinity> Skuggen: Is that not provided by pkg-config or similar (or is mythtv not using it?)
[21:16] <Skuggen> The header structure is a bit of a mess. Devs are working on cleaning it up, but wasn't ready for the 5.7 release :|
[21:16] <Skuggen> Yeah, I haven't seen that issue outside mythtv so far
[21:16] <Skuggen> So it's part that the directory structure is weird and part that mythtv does something a bit differently, I think
[21:17] <infinity> Yeah.  Looking now.
[21:18] <superm1> I explicitly patched to fix that
[21:18]  * superm1 shrugs
[21:18] <infinity> superm1: You may have patched the wrong bit.  The g++ command sure doesn't have the include.
[21:19]  * infinity grabs the source.
[21:23] <superm1> I patched the header check and the .pro to add the includes. It did all work correctly in my local test build
[21:23] <superm1> I'm afk atm I'll look when I get to computer
[21:30] <lamont> juliank: gdb apt-get; r dist-upgrade.... and it's working :(
[21:30] <lamont> oh, right .. let's do this on the correct machine
[21:30] <infinity> Hah.
[21:31] <lamont> apt-get dist-upgrade ==> segv.  apt-get install gdb ==>runs to completion fine.
[21:32] <lamont> bug inbound against apt with the trqace
[21:32] <infinity> You're lucky the latter didn't fix the former.
[21:32] <lamont> I KNOW
[21:32]  * lamont was quite concerned actually
[21:33] <infinity> I'd have unpacked a dpkg deb without dpkg or apt's databases being involved, probably. :P
[21:33] <lamont> I see that 1.2.8 is there, I'll try that after I file the bug.
[21:33] <infinity> s/dpkg deb/gdb deb/
[21:33] <lamont> heh
[21:33] <lamont> you know it's a red letter day, when you get to type Yes, do as I say!, twice.
[21:34] <infinity> I don't think I've had to type that in years.
[21:34] <infinity> I get the prompt all the time, but that's my own stupid fault, and it's saving me from myself.
[21:35] <lamont> oh yes, that prompt is the machine going, no seriously, think about this one before you say yes, multiple times.
[21:35] <lamont> if you ever determine that you should really type it, it's time to file a bug.
[21:35] <infinity> It's triggered by removing an Essential package, IIRC.  Not a whole lot of logic behind it.
[21:35] <infinity> And yes, absolutely a distro bug if it happens without you explicitly removing something you shouldn't.
[21:37] <lamont> yep.  removing essential is the whole and sole cause of that
[21:39]  * infinity upgrades his IBM PowerStation from 14.04 to 16.04 for the lolz.
[21:40]  * lamont attaches the trace from 1.2.8
[21:40] <lamont> juliank: over to you sir, lp #1562402
[21:41] <infinity> Man, this disk (and the SAS controller it's attached to) were wildly overspecced for this machine.
[21:41] <juliank> Oh no
[21:42] <juliank> Two different backtraces :/
[21:42] <infinity> I do believe this is the only 15k RPM disk in my house.
[21:42] <lamont> infinity: is it time for me to start shifting the home infra to xenial?
[21:42] <infinity> But I guess this is what happens when you ask IBM to make an "affordable workstation".
[21:42] <juliank> lamont: Can you generate a bt with dbgsyms?
[21:42] <lamont> maybe
[21:42] <infinity> lamont: That's what I'm doing right now.  I think we still have one or two upgrade bugs you might want to wait on, though.
[21:43]  * lamont hasn't bothered with dbgsyms in ages... process?
[21:43] <infinity> lamont: Definitely have one that fubars upgrades in GUIs.
[21:43] <infinity> lamont: I'm seeing now how serverish upgrades go.
[21:43] <lamont> infinity: I see
[21:43]  * lamont will let infinity embrace the suck on his behalf
[21:44] <infinity> Right now, all I can report is that server upgrades are fast.  If you have a disk that can actually keep up with your CPU.
[21:44] <infinity> Or, in this case, a disk that might be faster than my CPU. :P
[21:44] <juliank> lamont: and/or run it in valgrind
[21:45] <juliank> (preferably and)
[21:45] <infinity> lamont: dbgsyms == install libc6-dbg and install the matching lib and apt ddebs from http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/a/apt/
[21:45] <lamont> sigh.  installed valgrind (and the most recent maas, because of huh), and then ran apt-get dist-upgrade... and it's running
[21:46] <infinity> lamont: Yes, you can add ddebs.u.c to sources.list and 'apt-get install apt-dbgsym' too, if apt is working.
[21:46] <infinity> Oh.  Or valgrind broke you.  \o/
[21:46] <juliank> :(
[21:46] <lamont> yeah  it could have been that the maas ppa install tickled it into happiness, too
[21:46] <infinity> Yay for perturbing databases until it works. :(
[21:46] <lamont> but valgrind and I are about to have some fun
[21:46] <lamont> infinity: no yay
[21:46]  * lamont loves hard failurs
[21:46] <infinity> Saving /var/lib/dpkg, /var/cache/apt, and /var/lib/apt might have been nice.
[21:47] <infinity> If you have a time machine.
[21:47] <infinity> DO YOU HAVE A TIME MACHINE?!
[21:47] <lamont> "dammit, I wish I'd created that lvmsnapshot that I didn;t think to do this time"
[21:47] <lamont> ah, but I do have a backup of yesterday that includes /var/lib/dpkg
[21:47] <infinity> Indeed you would.
[21:48] <infinity> If you know what you've installed since, it's pretty safe to restore the old dpkg bits.  Well, safe-ish.
[21:48] <infinity> And just reinstall overtop again.
[21:48] <infinity> After debugging. :P
[21:48] <lamont> sigh
[21:48] <lamont> backup excludes for /var: lib/dpkg/
[21:49] <infinity> lamont: /var/backups
[21:49] <lamont> I'll rewind the maas bits, maybe
[21:49] <lamont> oh!
[21:50] <juliank> lamont: Do you perhaps have /var/backups/dpkg.status.0{,1.gz,2.gz}
[21:50] <infinity> It's not the entirety of /var/lib/dpkg, IIRC, but it's the databases apt cares about.
[21:50]  * juliank has that on Debian
[21:50] <juliank> but not sure why
[21:50] <lamont> yeah
[21:50] <lamont> do I care about more than dpkg.status?
[21:50] <infinity> Possibly apt.extended_states.0 too, depending on where the crash was.
[21:51] <juliank> That should be it. You can just pass -o Dir::State::Status=/var/backups/dpkg.status.0  to APT I'd think
[21:52] <lamont> Segmentation fault
[21:52] <lamont> \o/
[21:52] <juliank> Yay! Let's go valgrinding that bastard.
[21:53]  * lamont installs dbg syms
[21:53] <lamont> W: Failed to fetch http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial-proposed/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
[21:53] <lamont> W: Failed to fetch http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial-proposed/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
[21:53] <lamont> infinity: sigh.. what does that ddebs line look like?
[21:54] <infinity> lamont: No ubuntu.
[21:54] <lamont> ta
[21:54] <infinity> Just ddebs.u.c/ $series $comp $comp
[21:54] <infinity> We really should put an ubuntu symlink in there to /
[21:54] <juliank> infinity: oh, thanks for the 1.2.8 sync.
[21:54] <infinity> Maybe I'll do that right now.
[21:55] <infinity> juliank: I caught you talking about it in backscroll, changelog looked sane, so you're welcome.
[21:55] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514548/ <-- with dbgsyms
[21:55] <stgraber> infinity: yes we should! it's been bugging me SO many times
[21:55] <infinity> stgraber: Done.
[21:56]  * infinity tests.
[21:56] <juliank> I don't think it's mentioned in the changelog, but I made the flaky tests retry, so I hope it passes CI on all architectures now, even the always-failed armhf
[21:56] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514567/ <-- juliank
[21:56] <lamont> looking forward to 1.2.9 :D
[21:56] <stgraber> yay
[21:56] <infinity> Looks like that did the trick.
[21:56] <infinity> lamont: Works with ubuntu now too. :P
[21:57]  * lamont hugs infinity
[21:57] <infinity> Err.
[21:57] <juliank> hmm, seems like those dbgsym do not match your installed version :(
[21:57] <infinity> Except for apt yelling at me about it.
[21:57] <lamont> oh, yeha
[21:57] <infinity> Oh, but that's true regardless of the path.
[21:57] <infinity> It just needs fixing still.
[21:58] <juliank> Anyway, that's fairly weird stuff
[21:58] <infinity> Or I need to ship the key in the distro.  Derp.
[21:58] <Unit193> ddebs could likely be useful to add commented out in the default sources.list these days.
[21:58] <lamont> juliank: that's 1.2.7 syms with 1.2.8 apt. :(
[21:58]  * juliank thought so
[21:58] <infinity> So get 1.2.8 syms?
[21:58] <juliank> seems the new ones are not available yet
[21:59] <infinity> They're available in LP.
[21:59] <infinity> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/1.2.8/+build/9403755
[21:59] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514599/ <-- full valgrind
[21:59] <lamont> infinity: reinstalled 1.2.7
[21:59] <infinity> That works too.  But I suspect he wants both if they're different.
[21:59] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514613/
[22:00] <lamont> juliank: ^^ 1.2.7 bt
[22:00] <juliank> lamont: reinstall libapt-pkg5.0=1.2.7
[22:00] <infinity> lamont: Also, dude, learn to autoremove.
[22:00] <lamont> meh
[22:00] <juliank> You only pulled in the apt binaries, not the library
[22:00] <lamont> infinity: I do.. this is me not perturbing the db
[22:00] <juliank> infinity: Now both are the same...
[22:00] <juliank> Oh well, sorry, library is not downgraded yet.
[22:01] <lamont> ii  libapt-pkg5.0:amd64                 1.2.7                               amd64        package management runtime library
[22:01] <juliank> weird
[22:01] <lamont> dpkg -l | grep 1.2.8 yields only zlib1g
[22:02] <lamont> infinity: lp #1543683 has me being generous in my keeping of kernels
[22:03] <juliank> To be fair, I have no idea what's going on. It seems that we are iterating to a broken dependency
[22:03] <juliank> (in both cases)
[22:03] <lamont> and sometime between now and mondya, I need to boot a kernel so that I can definitively say that the "fix released" there is an outright lie
[22:04] <lamont> juliank: there is one small lie in the status file, that I don't think should matter... Package: perl5 Depends: perl, because I haven't rebuilt a binary yet to depend on perl instead of perl5
[22:04] <lamont> mentioned in the interests of full disclosure
[22:05]  * lamont tries one other thing
[22:08] <lamont> interesting... if I drop the maas ppas, then all is happy and right in the world again
[22:08]  * lamont bisects
[22:08]  * infinity still resents that he needs to do this after do-release-upgrade:
[22:08] <infinity> dpkg -l | awk '/^rc/ {print $2}' | xargs dpkg -P
[22:08] <lamont> amusingly, /var/backups is in my backup
[22:09] <infinity> lamont: Could the maas PPA have a broken control file somewhere that dpkg somehow missed?
[22:09] <lamont> I have been doing rm /var/lib/apt/lists/*; apt-get update each pass
[22:09] <juliank> infinity: Would you rather do apt purge ?config-files
[22:10] <infinity> juliank: I didn't know that was a thing.
[22:10] <lamont> File descriptor 3 (pipe:[5854305]) leaked on vgs invocation.  :P
[22:10] <juliank> infinity: It's an aptitude thing right now...
[22:10] <juliank> But I definitely want patterns in APT soon-ish
[22:12] <infinity> lamont: As to the parallel topic, a serverish do-release-upgrade -d seemed to DTRT.  Packages all installed, postinsts all succeeded, the only unexpected removal was aptitude (which I almost consider a feature, but I suppose I should look into).
[22:12] <lamont> heh
[22:12] <infinity> Rebooting now to be sure it actually worked...
[22:12] <lamont> yeah, they'll squawk about that
[22:13] <infinity> And it boots!
[22:13] <infinity> All systemdish and kernel 4.4ish.
[22:14] <juliank> lamont: YOu might want to run with Debug::pkgPackageManager=yes and see which package causes that (it should be the last printed in a line starting with SmartUnPack)
[22:14] <juliank> then you can see if there's anything odd about that
[22:16] <juliank> We need to retry the APT test on armhf
[22:16] <lamont> \o/
[22:17] <lamont> dist-upgrade with everything but http://ppa.launchpad.net/maas-maintainers/experimental3/ubuntu enabled, ran fine.  uncommented that one, and *splat*
[22:17] <infinity> Erm.  Reboot worked okay except that my / is read-only now.  WTF, systemd.
[22:17] <lamont>     SmartUnPack maas-region-controller-min:amd64 (replace version 2.0.0~alpha3+bzr4810-0ubuntu1 with Segmentation fault
[22:17] <lamont> how appropriate
[22:18] <infinity> Replace it with a SEGV indeed.
[22:18] <infinity> juliank: Retried.
[22:18] <juliank> infinity: thx
[22:18] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514818/
[22:19] <juliank> lamont: What's the apt-cache policy output for that?
[22:19] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514824/ <-- almost pasted before you asked
[22:21] <juliank> lamont: apt-cache showpkg would be good to have too
[22:22] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514844/ <-- showpkg juliank
[22:22] <infinity> That's show, not showpkg.
[22:22] <lamont> -kohlrabi(root) 381 : apt-cache showpkg maas-region-controller-min > zz
[22:22] <lamont> might be, but iz showpkg.
[22:22] <juliank> infinity: BTW: The failed test tries to detect that progress reporting works (start at 0, pulses somewhere in the middle, and stops at 100). It tests a 800k file download, at speed 1600/i where i is in [1..10]
[22:23] <juliank> So it actually loads the 800 KB file at 160 KB/s
[22:23] <infinity> lamont: showpkg looks more like http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514856/
[22:24] <lamont> oh haha
[22:25] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514869/ <-- actually different and correct this time
[22:26] <juliank> But if it crashes after the "replaces ... with" part, it's actually worse than I though
[22:27] <juliank> Well, it makes sense, though
[22:28] <juliank> maybe it's a regression from bug #1550741
[22:28] <juliank> hmm, typo
[22:30] <juliank> That is: The problem now appears to be that the cache has an invalid version selected for installation.
[22:30] <juliank> Which might be a regression from http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/apt/apt.git/commit/?id=0390edd5452b081f8efcf412f96d535a1d959457
[22:31] <lamont> \o/
[22:31] <lamont> juliank: and reproduced on another machine!
[22:31] <lamont> juliank: point me at an ssh key for you?
[22:32] <juliank> Second or third one of https://launchpad.net/~juliank/+sshkeys
[22:35] <lamont> http://paste.ubuntu.com/15514948/
[22:36] <lamont> | fa1b75a1-152b-4479-a80e-9b8edaea6caa | ubuntu-released/ubuntu-xenial-16.04-beta1-amd64-server-20160223.1-disk1.img  | ACTIVE |                                      |
[22:38] <juliank> hmm, where do I get that nova tool?
[22:38] <lamont> juliank: see also /query
[22:38] <lamont> that
[22:38] <lamont> s python-novaclient
[22:43] <infinity> Oh, you can't be serious.
[22:44] <infinity> lamont: Okay, one glaring effin' regression from upstart/mountall->systemd that I can't believe I'm the first to run into.
[22:44] <lamont> oh?
[22:44] <lamont> do I even want to know?
[22:44] <infinity> lamont: It fails to remount / rw if there's no (OTHERWISE COMPLETELY POINTLESS) entry for / in fstab.
[22:44] <lamont> lol
[22:44] <lamont> how's that readnoly thing going?
[22:45] <infinity> Well, fine now that I added an fstab entry.   "Myspace for dummies", published 2008
[22:47] <karstensrage> infinity, do you pull from unstable or just testing? for xenial?
[22:47] <lamont> juliank: amuslingly? apt-get install maas fix0rs everything
[22:47] <infinity> karstensrage: Unstable.
[22:47] <karstensrage> sweet
[22:47] <karstensrage> its up there
[22:47] <infinity> karstensrage: Does "it" have a name?
[22:48] <lamont> note also that the automatic pulling from unstable stopped for xenial a while ago
[22:48] <karstensrage> one sec
[22:48] <infinity> lamont: Yeah, he's trying to get something NEW in.
[22:48] <infinity> lamont: Which would be easier with a package name.
[22:48] <infinity> *hint, hint*
[22:48] <lamont> heh
[22:48] <lamont> infinity: what, can't you just do a for loop checking for new packages? :p
[22:49]  * lamont has lost faith
[22:49] <infinity> lamont: We effectively do just that when autosyncing, but not past DIF.
[22:49] <karstensrage> https://packages.debian.org/unstable/libpam-ufpidentity
[22:50] <infinity> karstensrage: FWIW, source packages are the real interest, so https://packages.qa.debian.org/libpam-ufpidentity would be the more relevant URL for such requests (happens that binary and source match this time, though).
[22:50] <infinity> karstensrage: And synced.
[22:51] <karstensrage> thank you so much
[22:52] <infinity> karstensrage: And https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libpam-ufpidentity to follow along at home.
[22:52]  * lamont wanders off for a bit
[22:58] <infinity> "Bash script for wrapping cron jobs to prevent excess email sendin" ... Because that extra 'g' would have been too much.
[22:59] <Unit193> Hah. :D
[22:59] <Unit193> Thanks for reviewing cronic!
[22:59] <infinity> Unit193: "Review" is a strong word for what I do with direct Debian syncs.
[23:00] <Unit193> Still, thanks.
[23:00] <infinity> But now all I can think of is some redneck worryin' about too much email sendin' on his dialup.
[23:01] <Unit193> Ahaha.   The other thing.
[23:04] <lamont> ohio has  city parts?
[23:04] <infinity> lamont: Cleveland?
[23:05] <lamont> I guess so
[23:05] <infinity> lamont: Population of 400k.  Doesn't qualify as a "city" to me, but it does to most people. :P
[23:05] <lamont> infinity: for you, it's not a city until it's big enough to have an underbelly?
[23:05] <Unit193> Welp, I don't know what I live in then, it certainly isn't a 'city' though if CLE isn't. >_>
[23:06] <infinity> On, and Columbus is 800k.
[23:06] <infinity> That's approaching a real city.
[23:07] <lamont> Unit193: tbf, the post office serving my house is for a town that might be 4500 now, and the next closest town has about a 150k population
[23:08] <juliank> maas-region-controller-min:amd64 Depends on maas-common [ amd64 ] < 2.0.0~alpha3+bzr4810-0ubuntu1 -> 2.0.0~alpha4+bzr4843-0ubuntu1~xenial2 > ( net ) (= 2.0.0~alpha4+bzr4837-0ubuntu1~xenial1) can't be satisfied!
[23:08] <infinity> lamont: But you no longer get your Internet via Pringles can, so you're moving up in the world.
[23:08] <Unit193> lamont: ...The metro area has 124,475. >_>
[23:09] <lamont> infinity: but I hate paying for my T1
[23:10] <lamont> which, tbf, is about 1/7 the bandwidth of the radio that's still on the tower, just not used by me
[23:10] <infinity> lamont: I thought you finally got cheap residential cable out there?
[23:10] <lamont> hahaha
[23:10] <lamont> cable comes to about 2 miles away
[23:10] <infinity> Oh. :P
[23:10] <infinity> 2 miles is pretty close!
[23:10] <lamont> the DSLAM is 17000 feet -- tariff is 15000... and "T1" is a total misnomer for a pair of bonded hdsl lines
[23:11] <lamont> and that is why I have an office in town
[23:11] <infinity> Oh, it's not actual ISDN/T1 old skool tech?  Just DSL sold at T1 speeds?
[23:11] <lamont> I could have DSL if the firestation were 1/2 mile closer
[23:12] <lamont> not entirely sure... "4-wire T1"
[23:12] <lamont> but I'm given to understand that it's hdsl pretending to be a T1... 2-pair to the house, and then magically 1-pair to get to the terminus in the computer room
[23:14] <lamont> http://goo.gl/BTcjCE <-- infinity
[23:14] <lamont> that's the box in the comp room
[23:15] <lamont> the next step down was 128kbps ISDN for about 2/3 the price of the T1
[23:15] <lamont> amusingly, it's not uncommon for me to see 180KB/s from the T1
[23:15] <infinity> That sounds like real old skool analog tdm T1.
[23:16] <lamont> yeah - it's more the 2-pair from the ped to the demark that leads me to believe it's playing games
[23:16] <infinity> But maybe their magic ... Yeah.
[23:16] <juliank> Almost fixed
[23:16] <infinity> lamont: It must be weird living in the past.
[23:16] <lamont> totally
[23:17] <infinity> lamont: Did you have to brush up on WTF Frame Relay is?
[23:20] <lamont> and, of course, they advertise my /24 from the swamp for me, at no additional charge
[23:22] <lamont> anyrate, afk
[23:22] <infinity> juliank: Are you going to tag a 1.2.9 with this fix "soonish", or should I just yoink the commit for an ubuntu1?
[23:23] <juliank> infinity: I'll do some more testing and upload this tomorrow I think
[23:23] <infinity> juliank: WFM.
[23:23] <infinity> juliank: I'm in no rush, lamont got unstuck, and I'm guessing it's a bit of a corner case.  Just want it in xenial sometime soonish.
[23:26] <juliank> https://github.com/julian-klode/apt/commit/71f2ab088f8e077ba8375e87ee9bb595655f954a
[23:26] <juliank> That should fix it
[23:28] <juliank> I should also come up with a test case, though
[23:31] <juliank> infinity: I'm not sure if removing maas-region-controller-min and installing maas-region-controller is the right choice, though, but it's what APT < 1.2.7 did and does not crash
[23:32] <juliank> I see, maas-region-controller-min is not up to date enough
[23:32] <juliank> (4837 and the rest 4843)
[23:33] <juliank> Now I need to build a test case where one package needs to be removed to allow another package to be installed.
[23:33] <juliank> Let's see if I can do that
[23:46] <lamont> juliank: maas-region-controller-min got renamed to maas-region-api
[23:48] <lamont> juliank: ^^
[23:48] <juliank> Yeah, saw that.
[23:48] <lamont> so before was maas-region-controller{,-min} and now is maas-region-{api,controller}
[23:49] <juliank> It unfortunately works in a minimized example test case
[23:49] <lamont> of course it does. :(
[23:49] <lamont> SCIENCE!
[23:56] <infinity> ● nosferatu
[23:56] <infinity>     State: running
[23:56] <infinity>      Jobs: 0 queued
[23:56] <infinity>    Failed: 0 units
[23:56] <infinity> ● leviathan
[23:56] <infinity>     State: running
[23:56] <infinity>      Jobs:<PHONE_NUMBER> queued
[23:56] <infinity>    Failed:<PHONE_NUMBER> units
[23:56] <infinity> I WONDER IF THAT MIGHT BE AN ENDIAN BUG.
[23:57] <infinity> Ooo, even better on s390x.
[23:57] <infinity> ● z13-028
[23:57] <infinity>     State: running
[23:57] <infinity>      Jobs:<PHONE_NUMBER> queued
[23:57] <infinity>    Failed:<PHONE_NUMBER> units
[23:57] <infinity> SO MANY JOBS!
[23:58] <infinity> xnox: ^-- Some lolz for you.  nosferatu = amd64, leviathan = powerpc, z13-028 = s390x.
[23:59] <infinity> systemd, you never cease to amaze.


[00:35] <mwhudson> er
[00:35] <mwhudson> what might cause bootstrap to hang?
[00:35] <mwhudson> local provider
[01:46] <thumper> mwhudson: hey
[01:46] <thumper> mwhudson: which version?
[01:46] <thumper> mwhudson: unfortunately it can be one of several things
[01:46] <thumper> it may have the appearance of hanging
[01:46] <thumper> or it may really be hanging
[01:46] <thumper> we have fixed the latter in recent releases
[01:50] <mwhudson> this was pretty hung
[01:50] <mwhudson> but it was an automated test, so i just killed it and started again
[01:50] <mwhudson> also: not local provider, manual provider
[06:56] <gnuoy`> jamespage, neutron-api nsx mp https://code.launchpad.net/~gnuoy/charms/trusty/neutron-api/nsx/+merge/238237
[07:35] <jamespage> gnuoy, ack - looking
[07:35] <jamespage> gnuoy, I think we should probably switch to using nsx-* for the config options
[07:35] <jamespage> gnuoy, so that its all inline with upstream naming
[07:36] <gnuoy> jamespage, but not inline with nsx transport charm
[07:36] <jamespage> gnuoy, hmm
[07:36]  * jamespage muses this issue
[07:36] <gnuoy> jamespage, I think it makes sense to switch to nsx
[07:37] <jamespage> gnuoy, hmm
[07:37] <jamespage> so I started a renamed charm - https://code.launchpad.net/~openstack-charmers/charms/trusty/nsx-transport-node/trunk
[07:37] <jamespage> but I've held off publishing that due to lack for 14.04 support from upstream as yet
[07:38] <jamespage> gnuoy, lets switch neutron-api to nsx-* now otherwise we are stuck with it for ever
[07:38] <jamespage> and as its >= icehouse it really is nsx!
[07:38] <gnuoy> agreed, will do
[07:40] <jamespage> gnuoy, added a comment to the mp - one of the config options is obsolete
[07:40] <gnuoy> ta
[07:49] <gnuoy> jamespage, mp updated
[13:40] <jamespage> gnuoy, https://code.launchpad.net/~james-page/charms/trusty/nova-compute/fixup-rbd-libvirt/+merge/238296
[13:48] <gnuoy> jamespage, did you see dosaboys comment on that ?
[13:55] <gnuoy> jamespage, approved
[13:55] <jamespage> gnuoy,
[13:55] <jamespage> ta
[17:00] <bladernr_> Hey, I have a question I haven't been able to find an answer for yet.  How would I use Juju to deploy into multiple physical zones on a single MAAS cluster?  e.g., lets say I have one maas server (region and cluster on one machine) and two physical zones with some nodes on each.
[17:01] <bladernr_> Any docs on how to tell juju to bootstrap them separately, or to bootstrap and then deploy one workload to zone A and one workload to Zone b?
[21:30] <bic2k> I upgraded to juju 1.20.7 two weeks ago, new machines are now reporting private ip's as their public ips. An attempt to upgrade to 1.20.9 appears to have left the cluster in a very invalid state.
[21:44] <marcoceppi_> bic2k: sorry to hear about that, what cloud is this?
[21:45] <bic2k> marcoceppi_: AWS. It looks like it got part way through upgrading from 1.20.7 to 1.20.9
[21:45] <bic2k> marcoceppi_: I'm finishing that by updating the /var/lib/juju/tools symlinks and restarting the services
[21:46] <bic2k> once I get machine-0 running I hope it can resolve the rest of machines
[21:47] <bic2k> any way to tell how far along the juju-upgrade is? We can now access juju again, and all but two machines are updated. So that looks like it worked.
[21:53] <marcoceppi_> bic2k: not really, in the next version of juju, after 1.21, we'll be adding better state exposure like upgrading, installing, etc
[21:54] <bic2k> marcoceppi_: cool, I'm wondering if there is an official guide related to manually finishing an upgrade. O
[21:55] <bic2k> I have done it a few times now, it isn't really hard, but it does help if things get stuck.
[21:55] <bic2k> I could write something up someplace or blog it.
[21:55] <marcoceppi_> bic2k: please write something up!! we don't have anything. If you do blog it up (or place it in the docs) that would be fantastic
[21:56] <marcoceppi_> https://github.com/juju/docs is where the docs live, this would be super helpeful in the troubleshooting section
[23:42] <mwhudson> is there some way i can prep a disk image so that after installing it, juju deploying to a container on it will be faster?
[23:43] <mwhudson> well, obviously there must be
[23:44] <mwhudson> but can someone tell me what it is? :)


[11:05] <Tumie> i'm going to fix the English issue 122,, their is a mistake in the Meetings,,, 1 january 2008 ... this must be 2009 :P
[11:07] <Tumie> it is fixen now
[11:08] <tyche> Oops.  I thought I caught all of those.  Sorry.
[11:17] <Tumie> Doesn't matter, it is fixed now..
[11:19] <tyche> Thanks
[23:02] <svaksha> happy holidays, merry xmas
[23:04] <tyche> Same to you
[23:04] <svaksha> :)