[12:07] <nysosym> good night fschoep :)
[12:08] <fschoep> nysosym: good nogith :)
[12:08] <fschoep> night*
[12:18] <Burgwork> what is this about new art?
[12:18] <Burgwork> fschoep: why is the artwork changing at this late date?
[12:19] <fschoep> Burgwork: master's orders
[12:19] <Burgwork> fuck
[12:19] <Burgwork> we are lucky I still have two days to change the books screenshots
[12:19] <fschoep> Burgwork: aren't you on the docteam?
[12:19] <Burgwork> yes, I am
[12:20] <fschoep> OK, I sent out a notification to the mailing list warning everyone not to take screenshots until further notice.
[12:20] <fschoep> Someone replied that noone was taking screenshots.
[12:21] <fschoep> I'm really sorry.
[12:21] <Burgwork> replying now
[12:21] <fschoep> OK, thanks.
[12:23] <Burgwork> artwork has missed every deadline it has ever been given, in the history of the Ubuntu project
[12:23] <Burgwork> every time I get a little bit more annoyed
[12:23] <Burgwork> this time, for Dapper, I thought we were good
[12:23] <Burgwork> apparently not
[12:24] <Burgwork> I don't blame the artteam
[12:24] <fschoep> I can understand your frustration.
[12:25] <fschoep> I'm sorry to hear about your problems, unfortunately I can't really help you out at the moment :(
[12:25] <Burgwork> we can revert the change, which is what I would do
[12:26] <fschoep> I'm not sure if Mark would agree with that.
[12:26] <Burgwork> yes
[12:26] <Burgwork> but if *any* other feature fails to make the deadline, it gets cut
[12:26] <Burgwork> artwork does not
[12:27] <fschoep> I see.
[12:28] <fschoep> Tonight, we worked very hard with the team to conform to Mark's latest wishes and I'm sure he wouldn't want us to revert everything at this moment.
[12:29] <Burgwork> it is still up in the air about whether or not I will be in MV
[12:29] <fschoep> I understand the book being high profile as well, but it's not up to me to decide what to prioritize. I'm sorry I can't help you out much more than this.
[12:29] <Burgwork> if I am, I am going to go to bat
[12:31] <Burgwork> it is not just the book
[12:31] <Burgwork> what about other projects?
[12:31] <fschoep> Can you tell me about some of those?
[12:32] <Burgwork> other book projects
[12:32] <Burgwork> that is the biggest one I can see
[12:32] <Burgwork> anybody doing out of tree marketing
[12:32] <Burgwork> etc.
[12:32] <Burgwork> there are a million places screenshots are used
[12:33] <Burgwork> anyway, I need to run
[12:33] <fschoep> OK, I'm sure we'll discuss the matter again. Thanks for dropping by.
[12:33] <fschoep> OK
[12:41] <fschoep> troy_s: ping?
[12:42] <kwwii> hehe, write a book about kubuntu
[12:42] <kwwii> it has been solid for weeks
[12:42] <kwwii> :p
[12:42] <kwwii> sorry
[12:44] <fschoep> kwwii: lol, you show 'em :)
[01:11] <imbrandon> kwwii, pong
[01:20] <kwwii> imbrandon: I made a couple a logos for the website
[01:21] <kwwii> more along the ubuntu lines though
[01:36] <imbrandon> kwwii, sweet
[01:36] <imbrandon> i just woke up, give me a few to get some food in me and stuff then i'll be ready to rock
[01:39] <fschoep> kwwii: shouldn't you be asleep?
[01:40] <imbrandon> heya fschoep
[01:40] <fschoep> Hey imbrandon
[01:40] <fschoep> How do you do?
[01:41] <imbrandon> great, had some time this weekend to get the community artwork site rocking, thats what newz^2000 kwwii and me are pumping out
[01:41] <kwwii> fschoep: yes
[01:41] <fschoep> OK, great
[01:41] <imbrandon> mark really seemed to like it , we just have a few more changes ( mostly cosmetic ) before we go live
[01:41] <fschoep> Fantastic
[01:42] <kwwii> let me post the latest stuff
[01:42] <imbrandon> kwwii, okies
[01:42] <fschoep> It sounds exciting, do you have a preview?
[01:42] <imbrandon> fschoep, ( private-ish url , e.g. no mailing list please ) but a sneak peek at http://art-staging.ubuntu.com
[01:43] <imbrandon> thats what me and kwwii are working from, he is working on a more "ubuntu" theme now ( but not totaly default )
[01:43] <imbrandon> it andhels all the image resizine, sounds, the whole bit
[01:43] <fschoep> Nice design, I think this is a major improvement over the old site
[01:44] <imbrandon> i'm working on better "group" stuff now, and a sound section
[01:44] <imbrandon> thanks
[01:44] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/pics/1.jpg
[01:44] <imbrandon> rainbow heh
[01:45] <kwwii> you can see that I can do that effect in any color
[01:45] <imbrandon> i like the first one personaly, its close to what i did on buntudot.org before the fridge merge
[01:45] <fschoep> kwwii: lol
[01:46] <kwwii> the question is what do we want
[01:46] <kwwii> I would like it to be cross desktop and there not necessarily orange-red
[01:46] <fschoep> kwwii: should it fit in the preview's design?
[01:47] <imbrandon> i was thinking a little deeper colors , i was going to change the backgrounds to still fade like they are but match the existing site moreso
[01:47] <kwwii> fschoep: not necessarily
[01:47] <imbrandon> yea
[01:47] <imbrandon> ( as in cross -desktop)
[01:47] <kwwii> imbrandon: how did you make the log now? it is part of the bg?
[01:47] <imbrandon> about as long as the letters, photoshop
[01:48] <imbrandon> its really just an illusion , so it would fit all resolutions
[01:48] <imbrandon> its two seperate images
[01:48] <imbrandon> http://art-staging.ubuntu.com/themes/copyleft/images/topleft.jpg
[01:48] <kwwii> so you coud take some transparent logo and put it on top of the bg pic?
[01:49] <imbrandon> yup
[01:49] <kwwii> erm, nope
[01:49] <imbrandon> i have a blank one
[01:49] <imbrandon> that i can on my hdd
[01:49] <kwwii> you have composited them in advance
[01:49] <imbrandon> infact one sec
[01:49] <kwwii> which is not bad
[01:49] <kwwii> but
[01:50] <kwwii> harder to test
[01:50] <imbrandon> yea
[01:50] <kwwii> as you have to do it every time
[01:50] <kwwii> :p
[01:50] <kwwii> I will send you 100 pics now
[01:50] <imbrandon> ow
[01:50] <kwwii> test them all please and show everyone everything :p
[01:50] <kwwii> just kidding
[01:50] <kwwii> don't run away
[01:51] <kwwii> I am a bitch about art
[01:51] <kwwii> :p
[01:51] <imbrandon> hehe
[01:51] <imbrandon> http://federation.imbrandon.com/topleft.jpg
[01:51] <imbrandon> ^ blank one
[01:51] <kwwii> gotcha
[01:52] <imbrandon> brb i'ma grab some grub, back in ~15 minutes
[01:52] <kwwii> about time for bed here
[01:52] <kwwii> might be asleep by that time, who knows
[01:52] <kwwii> :p
[06:30] <msikma> Hmm, the update to 6.10 seems to have changed around some of the graphics used by the "LegacyHuman" theme.
[06:30] <msikma> They look uglier now and broken in some places.
[06:43] <frandavid100> hiya!
[07:11] <PingunZ> Evening all
[07:13] <PingunZ> I made a gdm .. http://pingunz.rockz.be/Dump/screenshot.jpg any comments ? :)
[07:16] <andreasn> star trek?
[07:16] <andreasn> I totally want a star trek theme :)
[07:16] <msikma> Nice background. I'm not that impressed by the design of the middle part, though.
[07:17] <msikma> Mostly, I don't find the internal/external glows to be very attractive.
[07:17] <msikma> I think that keeping the glows either very small (in radius) or making them very transparent (maybe 10% opacity, probably less) is nice. One thing I'm certain of is that a dark outer glow is _not_ a good substitute for a drop shadow.
[07:19] <msikma> I'm irked by whatever logo that is in the middle. It has a shadow that makes no sense and it looks like an unfinished Tango icon resized to way past the scale it should be at.
[07:21] <PingunZ> Ok :)
[07:21] <PingunZ> It's the official archlinux logo btw ;)
[07:22] <PingunZ> The background is the suse default wallpaper ;)
[07:22] <PingunZ> I'll design a total new one, I'll keep you updated :D


[08:26] <MacroMan> I've several warnings after upgrading 'linux-firmware'. Are they anything to worry about?: https://paste.ngx.cc/545744018a9ad5c8
[08:26] <MacroMan> Particulary this line: depmod: WARNING: could not open /var/tmp/mkinitramfs_aWUPCI/lib/modules/4.4.0-59-generic/modules.order: No such file or directory
[08:27] <apw> MacroMan, if it is for those two anchient kernels (and you have some newer ones) i would not worry
[08:28] <apw> MacroMan, given they are 2 years old or so
[08:28] <MacroMan> OK cool
[08:28] <MacroMan> Just checked, I'm curently on 4.4.0-66-generic
[08:30] <apw> MacroMan, that would be wrong
[08:30] <apw>  linux | 4.4.0-93.116   | xenial-security  | source
[08:30] <MacroMan> That's the output I get from 'uname -r'
[08:30] <apw> the current version is some 30 odd newer than that
[08:31] <MacroMan> Linux example.com 4.4.0-66-generic #87-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 3 15:29:05 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[08:31] <apw> (on the assumption you are running 14.04)
[08:31] <MacroMan> 16.04
[08:31] <apw> that even
[08:31] <MacroMan> yes
[08:31] <MacroMan> ^ That's my output from uname -a
[08:31] <apw> then something is wrong with your kernel updates
[08:31] <apw> do you have linux-generic installed on there ?
[08:31] <MacroMan> Maybe
[08:32] <MacroMan> Rings a bell, but I don't know for sure
[08:32] <apw> heh, well a more definative check would be sensible
[08:32] <apw> dpkg -l | grep linux-generic
[08:32] <MacroMan> ty
[08:32] <MacroMan> No
[08:32] <apw> then you arn't getting kernel updates any more
[08:33] <apw> i would recommend installing that: apt-get install linux-generic
[08:33] <apw> at least linux-image-generic for sure
[08:33] <MacroMan> The latest version have is: ii  linux-image-4.4.0-66-generic         4.4.0-66.87                                amd64        Linux kernel image for version 4.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
[08:34] <apw> that is because you don't have the kernel meta package installed, which is linux-generic in your case
[08:34] <MacroMan> Oh wow. Version 93
[08:34] <apw> it is that meta-package which pulls the kernel updates in
[08:34] <MacroMan> Installing now
[08:34] <apw> yep, you are off in the dark woods
[08:35] <MacroMan> I assume that's going to need a reboot?
[08:35] <apw> kernels generally mean a reboot yes
[08:36] <MacroMan> Damn. I can't restart for hours
[08:36] <apw> there are some major cves fixed in a number of those kernels, so it is good you have htem
[08:36] <MacroMan> Ne'er mind. Thanks for your hekp
[08:36] <MacroMan> help*
[08:37] <MacroMan> Oddly, it had been updating at some point. I can see it updated from 34 all the way to 66 over the last couple of years
[08:40] <apw> there have been a couple of moments in time when there was a risk of the apt resolver deciding to remove linux-generic to solve some issues
[08:40] <apw> though normally people spot that and say no
[12:07] <sforshee> jjohansen: have those apparmor regression test updates been pushed? I'm still getting adt failures in the last 4.13 upload.
[17:52] <jjohansen> sforshee: no, I will take care of it today
[17:56] <sforshee> thanks jjohansen
[21:27] <kees> apw: Ubuntu users running ASan would love to see this get into Ubuntu ASAP (it will come via -stable eventually, but if it's easy to take it now, that would be appreciated) https://git.kernel.org/linus/c715b72c1ba406f133217b509044c38d8e714a37


[00:04] <Sweet5hark> robert_ancell: here is a recent output of libreoffice ./configure --help. I assume every second or third --with-foo or --enable-foo option might break: http://pastebin.com/NpkmD4BR
[00:05] <sarnold>   --disable-coinmp        Disable compilation of the CoinMP solver
[00:07] <Sweet5hark> robert_ancell: oh, yes: we will also bundle dictionaries for all languages with the snap, I assume?
[00:08] <robert_ancell> Sweet5hark, Can they download on demand?
[00:12] <Sweet5hark> robert_ancell: so far we provided them as proper packages installed along with lang support. But yes, if they find an language dict on extensions.libreoffice.org they might install it (to ~) just like windoze users would. Except that many dictionaries arent published on that page, but spread all over the internets, so many will do some easter egg hunt for their dicts ...
[00:12] <Sweet5hark> ... and then end up installing something malicious from an untrusted source.
[00:12] <robert_ancell> yep
[03:27] <happyaron> Laney: can you refresh the upload rights for ubuntukylin packageset?
[05:29] <tjaalton> does lightdm auto-adjust the scaling factor now?
[05:32] <tjaalton> scaling in unity doesn't seem to work at all (xenial)
[06:07] <hikiko> Hi
[07:04] <alkisg> Hi, so, to check how our packages appstream data shows up, we're supposed to install gnome-software, right?
[07:04] <alkisg> It's so bare... it always lists apps as "coming from a 3rd party", it doesn't list the version or license or source or size of the programs etc
[07:04] <alkisg> It's not even in the gnome menu, I have to launch it from the command line
[07:05] <alkisg> Am I testing it wrong?
[07:06] <alkisg> I search for "gedit" and it shows "seahorse", it doesn't have an index of available programs... is it supposed to be so broken or am I looking at the wrong application?
[07:12]  * alkisg just ran `apt-get install gnome-software`, hope I'm not missing any suggested packages that make it less functional...
[07:40] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:42] <pitti> Good morning
[07:43] <seb128> hey pitti!
[07:43] <seb128> wie gehts?
[07:45] <cyphermox> morning amigos
[07:45] <cyphermox> it's not my morning, I was just checking back on IRC before passing out.
[07:46] <flocculant> ha ha
[07:47] <seb128> hey cyphermox
[07:47] <pitti> hey seb128 ! terribly tired, I hardly slept at all for some  reason
[07:47] <seb128> lol I was going to ask
[07:47] <seb128> cyphermox, have a good night ;-)
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, oh :-(
[07:47] <seb128> pitti, strong tea time!
[07:47] <cyphermox> good day ;)
[07:47] <pitti> seb128: dentist time too!
[07:47] <seb128> good luck
[07:47] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks ;-)
[07:50] <Sweet5hark1> moin!
[07:57] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark1!
[08:01] <Sweet5hark1> seb128: heya
[08:04] <seb128> going to grab a coffee and something to eat, bbiab
[08:25] <andyrock> morning
[08:29] <alkisg> Hi guys, let me ask again, gnome-software currently is quite empty (no index in the inital page, no categories, no working search etc), is that to be expected or is it an issue with my local installation?
[08:36] <alkisg> (I'm asking here because a mail instructed us to use it to check the appstream data in our packages, and to direct questions to #ubuntu-desktop)
[09:01] <willcooke> morning all.  Still no SSL on Freenode for me :(
[09:03] <seb128> hey andyrock willcooke Laney
[09:03] <Laney> hello!
[09:04] <seb128> alkisg, did you apt-get update since you installed it? do you have the current appstream version?
[09:04] <seb128> Laney, doing good today?
[09:05] <alkisg> seb128: I've apt-get updated, `apt-cache search appstream` shows nothing, is that a package?
[09:06] <seb128> alkisg, dpkg -l | grep appstream-util
[09:07] <alkisg> Whoops sorry I ran the previous one in a 12.04 chroot. So, I have "appstream     0.9.1-1ubuntu" but not appstream-util.
[09:07] <alkisg> Installing...
[09:08] <seb128> you might not need util
[09:08] <seb128> and what is after that 1"ubuntu"
[09:08] <alkisg> It didn't make any changes
[09:08] <seb128> you cut the part which is interesting
[09:08] <alkisg> 0.9.1-1ubuntu1, sorry small term
[09:08] <seb128> that's old
[09:08] <seb128> we are at 1ubuntu6
[09:09] <seb128> urg
[09:09] <seb128> no, sorry
[09:09] <seb128> what about libappstream-glib8?
[09:09]  * alkisg apt-get updated a few minutes ago...
[09:10] <seb128> alkisg, do you get any result if you "appstreamcli search ."?
[09:11] <alkisg> Yup, I get a lot of results there
[09:11] <seb128> dpkg -l | grep gnome-software?
[09:11] <alkisg> libappstream-glib8:i386 0.5.8-1ubuntu6
[09:12] <seb128> what version do you have for that one?
[09:12] <alkisg> gnome-software 3.19.5+git20160212.a64f331-0ubuntu1
[09:12] <seb128> I'm out of ideas sorry
[09:12] <seb128> maybe Laney has a clue
[09:13] <seb128> seems to be an issue on the gnome-software side
[09:13] <alkisg> Do you guys see the software in categories?
[09:13] <seb128> can you run it with --debug and share the log?
[09:13] <alkisg> E.g. I have a freshly installed xenial vm, if I just run `apt-get install gnome-software; apt-get update` then I'm supposed to see the software categories etc?
[09:15] <alkisg> Ah, much better
[09:15] <alkisg> gnome-software was running as a pid even without a window
[09:15] <alkisg> So all my tries were relaunching the already running, hidden version of it
[09:15]  * alkisg sees categories etc now...
[09:16] <alkisg> (after pkilling it )
[09:16] <seb128> good
[09:16] <alkisg> Thank you seb128
[09:16] <seb128> yw
[09:20] <Laney> hey, sorry, had a few emails to read ;-)
[09:20] <Laney> don't like that you have to update another time after installing appstream
[09:20] <seb128> hey Laney ;-)
[09:20] <pitti> hey Laney
[09:20] <seb128> right
[09:20]  * Laney wonders how to fix that
[09:20] <seb128> can we make that update a trigger
[09:20] <Laney> not really
[09:20] <seb128> or in the postinst or something
[09:20] <Laney> it's a config file to apt
[09:21] <alkisg> Apart from that, there was also the problem of gnome-software not really closing when its window is closed
[09:21] <Laney> to download some more files from the mirror
[09:21] <Laney> yeah that's a gnome thing, apps do that now
[09:21] <seb128> alkisg, right, that's worth a bug report
[09:21] <seb128> I wonder if that's a new gnome thing
[09:21] <seb128> got similar problems with calendar
[09:21] <seb128> Laney, do you know why?
[09:22] <seb128> it means things keep using resources even after being closed
[09:22] <seb128> that has to be a bug
[09:22] <seb128> or are we going phone mode and never closing anything and hopping the oom does the job?
[09:23] <Laney> I don't really know much about it
[09:23] <alkisg> If ran from the command line, when I close the window, I don't get a prompt, and when I press ctrl+c, the "background process" closes normally, so I'm guessing it's a gtk quit handling issue...
[09:23] <seb128> or a "feature"
[09:23] <seb128> but please report a bug about it
[09:23] <Laney> but it's about single instance
[09:25] <Laney> hey pitti!
[09:32] <darkxst> hey desktopers
[09:32] <seb128> Laney, is gnome-software supposed to use the same screenshots data than software-center?
[09:32] <willcooke> hey darkxst, how goes?
[09:33] <seb128> Laney, e.g https://screenshots.debian.net
[09:33] <seb128> ?
[09:33] <seb128> hey darkxst
[09:33] <Laney> I think it can fall back to that but upstream are supposed to supply them but also ximion mentioned that he needs to fix something to do with screenshots
[09:33] <darkxst> hey willcooke, Im good again now!
[09:34] <willcooke> darkxst, glad to hear it :)
[09:34] <darkxst> Laney, what are the icon requirements for appstream? must have 64x or anything higher?
[09:34] <Laney> higher is ok
[09:35] <darkxst> Laney, gnome-weather has 256x but is still failing
[09:36] <darkxst> willcooke, the side effects from the miracle drugs are crap!
[09:39] <Laney> darkxst: lemme see
[09:40] <darkxst> Laney, thanks
[09:43] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - I've noticed some lag in the loading of the icons in categories.  Is that normal?  Oh, actually - no, today its fine.  Ignore
[09:44] <seb128> willcooke, I didn't notice it
[09:45] <willcooke> seb128, seems ok today.  Might be a first run thing I guess.  I'll see if I can reproduce it, but I don't think its a big issue
[09:45] <seb128> the UI feels responsive and looks ok
[09:46] <seb128> I miss being able to sort categories by rating though
[09:46] <willcooke> I *really* like it so far
[09:46] <seb128> I wonder if that should be the default?
[09:46] <willcooke> I think alphabetical should be the default
[09:47] <willcooke> but a rating sort order would be really handy
[09:49] <seb128> hum
[09:49] <seb128> for me it doesn't get added to the unity dash "most recently used"
[09:49] <seb128> even after killing the service
[09:49] <seb128> I wonder if that has to do with the service mode
[09:55] <willcooke> same here
[10:33] <willcooke> oh
[10:37]  * Sweet5hark1 is feeling so snappy today. dunno why.
[10:37] <Laney> schnappi
[10:37]  * Sweet5hark1 thows some red meat in the air for Laney to fetch ...
[10:43] <seb128> lol
[10:44] <willcooke> Sweet5hark1, breakfast wine is the answer
[10:44] <seb128> is that a thing?
[10:44] <willcooke> it is in my house today
[10:44]  * seb128 would rather go for the whisky in the coffee
[10:45] <willcooke> :D
[10:45] <seb128> :-)
[10:46] <Sweet5hark1> wine? Ok, Im going with a Tullibardine 228 Burgundy Finish. There is burgundy in it, so it qualifies as wine on my book.
[10:46] <willcooke> it's all just fruit juice
[10:47]  * willcooke goes for a top up
[10:49] <Laney> darkxst: haha
[10:49] <Laney> "            # FIXME: Do we support icon names which contain a dot?
[10:49] <Laney> "
[10:52] <darkxst> Laney, oh right, wtf!
[10:52] <Laney> "ummmmmmmmmmmm, yes please"
[10:55] <darkxst> Laney, I'll send them a whipping, though tomorrow, sleep now
[10:55] <Laney> darkxst: looking at the code
[10:55] <Laney> oh
[10:55] <Laney> ximion is here!
[10:59] <Laney> ximion: looking at https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/issues/gnome-weather.html and http://appstream.ubuntu.com/xenial/universe/issues/gnome-weather.html - seems you have a fail-fast path if the icon filename contains a '.'
[10:59] <seb128> Laney, so screenshots, I guess it has some support because it displays the widget just says the image is invalid when there is/should be one
[10:59] <Laney> which breaks this case
[10:59] <Laney> it does
[10:59] <seb128> where for some others it doesn't display the widget
[10:59] <Laney> just needs some kind of fixing
[10:59] <seb128> yeah
[10:59] <Laney> no worries
[11:00] <seb128> also it seems there is still the bug about it considering packages third party non free
[11:00] <seb128> robert had an upload to fix that I think, I guess it doesn't work/needs more fixing
[11:03] <ximion> Laney: heh, I even knew about that when writing the code, but assumed there were no apps having dots in their icon filename... So, again, more complexity is needed in the icon handler
[11:03] <ximion> I'll fix that in a few minutes
[11:04] <Laney> ximion: can you make the check smarter or just delete it?
[11:04] <Laney> ximion: also another check needed for ubuntu contents files, pr coming up :)
[11:04] <Laney> and hey, :)
[11:05] <Laney> how's deutschland today?
[11:05] <ximion> Laney: I need to make that check smarter, removing it will break a lot more other apps
[11:05] <ximion> the icon stuff is really dumb ^^
[11:06] <ximion> great and sunny :) - I'm not at the lab today, which is why you find me online :D
[11:06] <ximion> (at this time)
[11:06] <Laney> \o\
[11:10] <ximion> Laney: what would be more important for Ubuntu in terms of metadata: having font components in the AppStream metadata, or having information about which software is localized in which language to what percent?
[11:10] <Laney> ximion: what does gnome-software know how to deal with?
[11:11] <ximion> the latter is so complex on Debian based systems, I am not sure if the additional processing effort would be worth the potential gain - on Fedora, this is a bit easier to implement, since they don't split the software into so many binary packages
[11:11] <ximion> (unless it's LaTeX, there they seem to go nuts)
[11:11] <Laney> you would parse the .mo files or something?
[11:12] <ximion> Laney: yes and possibly other formats - problem is, I need to find them too, which means another call to the Contents list and extracting even more packages, and the package extraction is the really expensive thing
[11:12] <ximion> I am actually thinking about rewriting some of those performance-critical things in C and have Python call that code... Not 100% sure about that yet, though, since python-apt also hooks into what is mostly C++ code
[11:13] <ximion> GS can handle both
[11:13] <ximion> but only uses the l10n data for sorting, and I think it also sometimes displays an "available in your language" badge
[11:13] <Laney> I guess you would want to factor out the contents handling
[11:13] <Laney> there is scope for modularisation here
[11:14] <ximion> problem is, that if a binary uses 10% of it's srings from its own gettext domain, but the other 90% come from shared libraries, it's impossible to give an accurate measurement of localization
[11:14] <tjaalton> willcooke, seb128: there is one blocker with nvidia still holding back the new xserver, so maybe I need to file a FFE bug?
[11:15] <ximion> Laney: reading any .deb file data is by far the most expensive task, followed by reading the Contents.gz files, followed by reading other Packages.gz and supplimentary data - that are the big cost items, at least, there are a few smaller ones which sum up since they're called often
[11:15] <ximion> but not as much as .deb file reading, which is both expensive and called always
[11:17] <Laney> that's unavoidably expensive
[11:17] <ximion> Laney: btw, when you boostrap a new architecture or suite using the generator, you can now use the prepopulate-cache action, which will at least set the packages which definitely have no interesting data to ignore
[11:17] <ximion> that speeds up the initial processing run massively
[11:18] <Laney> nice
[11:18] <ximion> but requires that your contents file is up2date, otherwise you will loose information
[11:18] <ximion> exists for a while now, but I didn't document it yet, to search for issues
[11:18] <Laney> I reckon we could make use of a copy-suite action too
[11:18] <Laney> since our new releases start out as copies
[11:18]  * desrt yawns
[11:19] <ximion> Laney: that should work out of the box, since the database doesn't know about suites at all
[11:19] <ximion> only about package versions, so when a new suite is added, it will only process the package versions it doesn't know yet and skip the rest
[11:19] <ximion> (= take the very same data)
[11:19] <Laney> why do you need the prepopulate thing then?
[11:20] <ximion> only when you deleted the cache or when you add a new architecture, which brings in tons of new package/version/arch combinations
[11:22] <ximion> (when I want to reprocess everything, it's really useful)
[11:23] <ximion> a delete-by-tag command will also be nice in future
[11:23] <Laney> I wrote a script to do that
[11:23]  * Laney is cool
[11:28]  * Laney PRs
[11:33] <willcooke> tjaalton, seb128 - ack
[11:43] <pitti> Laney: do you still remember the bugzillla # about "double-click in terminal doesn't select URLs any more"?
[11:43] <pitti> AFAIR upstream considered that a feature, not a bug
[11:44] <Laney> pitti: my awesome bar seems to have forgotten about it
[11:44] <pitti> mine too :/
[11:44] <Laney> I use right click -> copy url
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: I found https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=640727, but that's older and the inverse problem
[11:48] <seb128> tjaalton, wfm, should be easy to get
[11:53] <pitti> Laney: oh, bug 1501250 and that links to the upstream bug
[11:54] <Laney> ah
[11:54] <Laney> I was searching for 'select'
[11:55] <tjaalton> willcooke, seb128: another update I'd like to get in is mesa 11.2, which will release -rc1 tomorrow and final around Mar 11th. then it would still get first or maybe even second bugfix pointrelease before final freeze
[11:56] <tjaalton> i'll push rc1 in the staging ppa
[12:00] <ximion> Laney: I dropped the dot-check afterall, there is no way to implement this safely if we assume that dots in icon filenames are common
[12:01] <ximion> btw, the Contents.gz of unstable should be included on Ubuntu even when main is processed, AFAIK
[12:02] <Laney> ximion: that's what I thought, either that or do a check for the filename + extensions which would be expensive and this is supposed to be a fail fast case - thanks!
[12:02] <Laney> ximion: universe?
[12:02] <Laney> it is - but we can't read it because of that bug
[12:03] <ximion> ah, then it's good that this is fixed now, thanks!
[12:03] <willcooke> tjaalton, thanks
[12:04] <ximion> well, if we check against a list of filenames, we still get and error, because ".Application" isn't recognized as allowed icon filetype
[12:04] <willcooke> interesting:  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815006
[12:07] <desrt> good morning everyone
[12:08] <desrt> willcooke: looks mostly like compromise from the debian side to me
[12:08] <Laney> hey hey desrt
[12:08] <willcooke> hi desrt, still suffering with jetlag?
[12:08] <desrt> suffering?
[12:08] <desrt> THIS IS AWESOME
[12:08] <willcooke> hehe!
[12:08] <desrt> if i knew what waking up at 6am was like i would have been doing it all along!
[12:08] <desrt> (...until next week when i finally give out)
[12:08] <Laney> haha
[12:08] <Laney> if only waking up at 6am was like that normally
[12:09] <desrt> the key to waking up at 6 is going to bed at 10
[12:09] <desrt> which, so far, has not been too big of a problem
[12:09] <desrt> once that starts slipping, i'm doomed
[12:11] <desrt> " In case of derivatives of Debian, Firefox branding can be used as long as the patches applied are in the same category as described above. "
[12:11] <desrt> that's a pretty weak statement from mozilla, and it's surprising to see debian change their position based on that
[12:11] <desrt> considering "in the same category" in this case means "architecture-specific portability patches"
[12:15] <desrt> good to see debian back off a bit on this issue, in any case... some moderation here is probably not a bad thing
[12:17] <Laney> what's the argument
[12:18] <Laney> it's okay because if we needed to rename we could do it?
[12:18] <desrt> the argument is (seemingly) that mozilla released a friendly (albeit weak and vague) statement toward debian so we should all feel nice
[12:20] <desrt> indeed it would have been nice if they had included something along the lines of "we guarantee that we will never ask you to change the branding of firefox in a stable release or after feature freeze" or something like that
[12:21] <desrt> but they didn't do that
[12:22] <desrt> but this was never the original argument (at least as far as i understood it)... it was about the fact that even if mozilla was happy about debian's usage, it's clear that they may have become unhappy about derivative usage if that usage made more substantive changes to firefox... which was a restriction that debian saw as out of step with the DFSG
[12:23] <desrt> this remains completely unaddressed except by that one sentence about "derivatives can do the same stuff that you've been doing"... which is not much...
[12:25] <desrt> of course mozilla is no bully here... they need to protect their mark, and there are real cases of people abusing firefox's reputation to harm users in the real world... it's always been about how "morally flexible" debian is willing to be with the letter of the law in order to do something that is clearly moral in spirit
[12:25] <desrt> and that, more than anything else, seems to be what is changing here.  an interesting development.
[12:27] <Laney> there was a specific problem originally about some patches Debian made - Mozilla themselves explicitly revoked trademark permission
[12:27] <Laney> 10 years ago-ish
[12:28] <desrt> outright, or as an ultimatum?
[12:28] <Laney> it was a bug report like "hi, I'm from mozilla, please rename your package"
[12:28] <desrt> it was thunderbird, fwiw
[12:28] <desrt> and it was mike connor.  nice.
[12:29] <Laney> Don't see why this couldn't happen all over again
[12:29] <Laney> I can see the arguments that it is in line with the DFSG
[12:29] <Laney> but seems annoying nonetheless
[12:30] <desrt> mozilla has said almost nothing that changes the situation
[12:30] <Laney> presumably a part of this is that the maintainer works for mozilla now
[12:30] <desrt> perfect.  put a mozilla employee in charge of packaging and move it to non-free.  problem solved :D
[12:42]  * Sweet5hark1 spills some oil into the discussion with: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Policies/Trademark_Policy#Use for comparision.
[12:44]  * ogra_ checks if he accidentially ended up in #ubuntu-legal
[12:44] <Laney> we're about as well informed as debian-legal :P
[12:46] <Sweet5hark1> lets retroactively establish IANAL as an acronym for "I am not a layman" and sue everyone based in common law countries over legal advise!
[12:46] <Laney> seb128: looks like we managed the webkit switch in one image
[12:46] <Laney> want to do some hardcore demoting?
[12:52]  * desrt renames her fork to Liberated OpenLibreOffice
[13:16] <seb128> Laney, great, well done! sure I can do that ;-)
[13:17] <Laney> woot
[13:17] <Laney> now something weird has happened in this glib release
[13:17] <Laney> /usr/bin/install -c ./libglib-gdb.py /<<PKGBUILDDIR>>/debian/install/deb/usr/share/gdb/auto-load/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0.4706.0-gdb.py
[13:17] <Laney> nice path
[13:18] <Laney> but looks like it is actually right!
[13:18] <Laney> !!!
[13:38]  * willcooke late lunches
[14:33] <seb128> Laney, sphinx didn't migrate yet so not much demotion
[14:42] <seb128> mitya57, ^ are you looking at that one?
[14:50] <mitya57> seb128, not yet, will look now
[14:50] <seb128> mitya57, thanks
[15:05] <seb128> happyaron, hey, do we need fcitx to recommends fcitx-frontend-all? could we limit the recommends to (gtk2)gtk3&qt5?
[15:07] <mitya57> seb128, Laney: uploaded pyresample with fixed tests which should unblock sphinx
[15:07] <seb128> Mirv, mitya57, Laney, willcooke, what do you think about making indicator-appmenu stop recommending appmenu-qt and unseeding sni-qt but make those rather a recommends from some qt4 binary? it looks like we could get qt4 out of the iso/default installation
[15:07] <seb128> mitya57, great, thanks!
[15:09] <mitya57> seb128, +1 to this idea
[15:12] <mitya57> Though, from Qt we can recommend sni-qt but it would be a bit ugly to recommend appmenu-qt (which is the server side of SNI spec)
[15:12]  * willcooke checks rdepends on qt4
[15:20] <seb128> willcooke, on the iso it's only fcitx/appmenu/sni
[15:20] <willcooke> oh, cool
[15:20] <seb128> which are integration with qt4 softwares, so not needed if there is no qt4 applications
[15:20] <willcooke> sorry, I got distracted and forgot I was supposed to be looking at that
[15:20] <seb128> yeah, I sort of forgot too
[15:20] <willcooke> :)
[15:20] <willcooke> then +1
[15:20] <willcooke> thx
[15:21] <seb128> but we got a part of the qt4 stack uninstalled today with the software-center drop since that took off the ubuntuone package that was still using qt
[15:22] <seb128> which made me look at the remaining items
[15:22] <seb128> mitya57, yeah, I don't have a good idea, we don't have a way to state "install that if unity is installed"
[15:23] <seb128> we could let to users to install those but most wouldn't and wouldn't have correct integration
[15:23] <seb128> (have to go pick up somebody, bbiab)
[15:23] <mitya57> OK, I guess it's not a problem to add a recommends on appmenu-qt, at least for LTS
[15:24] <mitya57> If it's recommends, it's easy for users to avoid installing it if they don't want to.
[15:25] <seb128> right
[15:45] <andyrock> anyone managed to install gnome-software from sources?
[15:45] <andyrock> i used to be able before
[15:46] <andyrock> but now i cant' install apps with my own g-s
[15:46] <andyrock> i get "installation failed" even if the app has been installed
[15:48] <Mirv> seb128: getting qt4 out would be very nice, I agree
[16:07] <pitti> wow, so software-center fell off the image? nice, congrats!
[16:08] <willcooke> :)
[16:08] <willcooke> good work team!
[16:12] <Laney> it was more pushed
[16:13] <Laney> (seed change
[16:13] <Laney> )
[16:14] <andyrock> seb128: g-s is going to use aptd to install/remove/etc things right?
[16:21] <willcooke> seb128, should g-s be added to the launcher by default?  (I dont think it is atm)
[16:21] <willcooke> Laney, do you know how the "editor picks" work?
[16:23] <Laney> I think they are hardcoded
[16:23] <willcooke> so they'll always be the same?
[16:24] <willcooke> I wonder if we can mix that up, or indeed become "the editor" ourselves on a rotational basis :)
[16:24] <Laney> I would imagine that you would want to make it possible to change it externally
[16:25] <willcooke> I'll open a bug with some thoughts
[16:30] <Laney> Looks like plugins can influence this list
[16:30] <willcooke> ah nice
[16:30] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1547095
[17:07] <robert_ancell> Sweet5hark, is bug 958345 resolved for LO?
[17:07] <robert_ancell> I *think* it is
[17:17] <Sweet5hark> robert_ancell: sorry, will look at in 60 minutes -- in a call now
[17:32] <seb128> andyrock, yeah, it's using aptd, but better to ask robert_ancell about details
[17:32] <seb128> willcooke, yeah, good point for the launcher
[17:34] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey, g-s still seems to think that all softwares are third-party/non-free, did your fix still work for you? also is that normal/known that none of the "translated/documented/integrated with the system" seem ever acked?
[17:34] <willcooke> seb128, I'll open a bug
[17:35] <seb128> robert_ancell, also the "updated" and "license" are unknown
[17:35] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, the third party thing is known - we need to mark things that come from main/universe. I have a couple of solutions, not sure how reliable they are. The non-free is because we don't know the licenses. That could come from appstream or we could just mark main/universe as "Open Source". The translated/documented/integrated come from appstream.
[17:35] <robert_ancell> They're all fixable I think, though the solution might just be to hide them.
[17:35] <robert_ancell> Please file bugs if not there already.
[17:35] <seb128> k
[17:36] <willcooke> robert_ancell, do you know if there is anywhere in g-s to show prices?
[17:36] <willcooke> I assume not since most things will be assumed to be free
[17:36] <robert_ancell> willcooke, G-S has no concept of prices.
[17:36] <seb128> robert_ancell, willcooke, is that only me who find the "was this review useful" and "report abuse" buttons to be given too much importance?
[17:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, Yeah, I see that too - ask aday
[17:37] <seb128> like they are quite noticable but I would assume they are not the most used thing in comments
[17:37] <robert_ancell> They were designed / added by GNOME
[17:37] <seb128> k
[17:37] <seb128> would you usually ask on IRC or file a bug?
[17:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, bug then IRC/email
[17:37] <seb128> k
[17:37] <seb128> thanks
[17:37] <robert_ancell> aday seems very busy, so I never see him online
[17:38] <seb128> robert_ancell, oh, also do you know if it's normal that gnome-software doesn't exit on close?
[17:38] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, it seems to run some sort of service for noticing upgrades. We should probably disable that (there's a bug on LP relating to that dialog)
[17:38] <seb128> k
[17:39] <seb128> it's especially annoying because it makes the unity dash not list it
[17:39] <seb128> well I assume it's due to that, at least if it's running the dash stop listing it
[17:39] <seb128> but it's not in the most recently used even after closing so there might be something else
[17:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I thinking these feature can all be fixed between FF and UI Freeze
[17:41] <seb128> right
[17:41] <seb128> even after uif
[17:41] <seb128> those are mostly bugfixes
[17:45] <robert_ancell> seb128, did you have any info on the desirability of the offline updates?
[17:46] <seb128> robert_ancell, I think it would be considered a good improvement
[17:47] <seb128> how easy would it be to enable?
[17:47] <robert_ancell> seb128, do you know if it works on Ubuntu
[17:47] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's there, but I don't know if it works
[17:47] <seb128> willcooke might know better about partner/design opinion on the topic
[17:47] <seb128> I've no idea
[17:47] <seb128> I can try to play with that tomorrow though
[17:47] <robert_ancell> I figure we either fix/support it or disable the button
[17:47] <seb128> maybe Laney knows
[17:47] <robert_ancell> It does somewhat overlap with update-manager
[17:48] <seb128> it's quite a big change
[17:48] <seb128> unsure it's safe to include now for the LTS
[17:48] <seb128> but it could be nice to have it working on possible to turn on
[17:48] <seb128> maybe some oem images would do that
[17:49] <willcooke> sorry, what is offline updates?
[17:49] <seb128> willcooke, windows style, apply them on shutdown/reboot
[17:49] <Laney> it uses some systemd thing
[17:50] <Laney> don't know if that is set up for us
[17:50] <seb128> pitti, ^ do you know if that should work on deb/ubuntu?
[17:50] <Laney> but the idea is a sound one imo
[17:50] <seb128> willcooke, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/OfflineSystemUpdates
[17:51] <seb128> willcooke, that basically solve all the issue of doing in session updates/replaces things being in use under their feet
[17:52] <willcooke> just reading it now
[17:52] <willcooke> so the issue is that the UI which handles this is not Ubu-themed?
[17:53] <seb128> I guess that's one
[17:53] <seb128> I would be more concerned about the fact that it's quite a workflow change and a new untested stack handling your updates
[17:54] <seb128> thinking about it, that feels risky to do by default
[17:54] <robert_ancell> willcooke, the issue is A: there is a button in GNOME Software, but not in update manager (Do we add one). And B: Don't know if there's work required to make it work
[17:54] <seb128> you don't want to have LTS updates handled by some new untested stack
[17:54] <willcooke> ohhhh
[17:54] <willcooke> sure why not
[17:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, that was my feeling, unless someone has more experience to tell us otherwise
[17:54] <willcooke> JOKE!!!
[17:54] <willcooke> I crack myself up.
[17:54] <seb128> lol
[17:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, I would say to not bother for ff and not do it by default
[17:55] <robert_ancell> willcooke, I heard your stress levels were too low, opt in for some more features!
[17:55] <willcooke> Sounds like something for 16.10 to me
[17:55] <willcooke> robert_ancell, :D:D:D
[17:55] <seb128> but getting it to work for those who want to opt in would be nice
[17:55] <willcooke> see the conversation about breakfast wine from earlier on
[17:56] <seb128> willcooke, robert_ancell, I can see that as a nice thing oems install might want to opt in
[17:56] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah
[17:56] <robert_ancell> Perhaps a gsettings key will be enough
[17:56] <seb128> well maybe it get enough testing and it's something we feel safe tell them they can use by LTS .3 or something
[17:56] <seb128> like get opt in from tech users
[17:56] <seb128> see how it goes
[17:56] <willcooke> right, is it something which we could sru?  sounds like yes
[17:57] <seb128> and it if it goes well we can decide to enable later
[17:58] <willcooke> sounds wise to me
[17:59] <mdeslaur> ugh, offline updates mean users don't get timely security updates
[18:00] <Laney> as opposed to thinking they have them because they've installed by not restarted
[18:00] <Laney> offline updates mean you know you have all updates applied
[18:00] <mdeslaur> and waiting for your laptop to shutdown like windows is a pretty awful user experience
[18:00] <mdeslaur> Laney: pff
[18:01]  * Laney just yesterday did a stupid update and restart services dance for glibc
[18:01] <willcooke> ohhhhhh
[18:01] <willcooke> thats what I was supposed to do this morning
[18:05] <mdeslaur> now that every other platform has live app updates, let's try and not regress to 1999 with an update on shutdown scenario :P
[18:06] <Laney> it's for system components, which other platforms do offline
[18:06] <seb128> so it only suggest it when you have a need-reboot package?
[18:06] <Laney> and it's restart & update, not update & shutdown
[18:06] <mdeslaur> ugh, even worse
[18:06] <Laney> whatever
[18:06] <Laney> bye
[18:06] <mdeslaur> hehe
[18:06] <seb128> I hate it on windows as well
[18:07] <seb128> last time I want to play a game I ended up having to wait for windows to finish applying updates
[18:07] <seb128> and 1h30 later it was too late to play
[18:07] <seb128> FAIL
[18:07] <Laney> have you tried this implementation?
[18:07] <Laney> either of you
[18:08] <seb128> no, that was the start of the question, asking if it's supposed to work/if we can try it
[18:08] <mdeslaur> isn't it what fedora does?
[18:08] <mdeslaur> or is it different?
[18:08] <seb128> also I was commenting on the concept of blocking the computer to do updates
[18:08] <seb128> I don't need to try it to know that it's time I can't use the machine :p
[18:09] <seb128> but yeah, maybe it takes less than 15s and it's fine
[18:09] <seb128> need to play with it to see ;-)
[18:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, Laney, willcooke, reading the fedora wiki, there is at least a part which is implemented in packagekit so unsure it's going to work with aptdaemon
[18:14] <Laney> I bet it requires pk 1.0
[18:14] <Laney> it's like -> tell systemd to boot into some target
[18:14] <seb128> wiki says 0.8.1
[18:14] <Laney> -> in that target do the update
[18:14] <Laney> -> restart
[18:15] <Laney> nice
[18:15] <seb128> :-)
[18:15] <seb128> thing is we can't co-install packagekit and aptdaemon
[18:15] <seb128> and I guess aptdaemon doesn't implement those functions
[18:15] <seb128> so not going to work
[18:15] <Laney> it's probably just a dist-upgrade in that target
[18:15] <Laney> guessing
[18:16] <Laney> ...pkcompat must do that...
[18:16] <seb128> I'm going to give it a try after ff ;-)
[18:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, I think we *can* install aptdaemon and PackageKit 1.0, as long as we remove the PackageKit compatibility layer from aptdaemon
[18:16] <Laney> rrrrrrrright, laters
[18:16] <seb128> Laney, bye
[18:17] <robert_ancell> Laney, cya
[18:17] <robert_ancell> Laney, nice work on the appstream stuff btw!
[18:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, right, which start sounding like too risky/much work for this cycle
[18:17] <robert_ancell> seb128, exactly
[18:17] <seb128> so yeah
[18:17] <seb128> 16.10 thing then
[18:17] <robert_ancell> yes
[18:17] <robert_ancell> Unless fairies and unicorns solve the issues
[18:18] <robert_ancell> (I'm out of those at the moment)
[18:30] <Sweet5hark> re
[18:30] <seb128> wb
[18:37] <Sweet5hark> robert_ancell: thx wrt bug 958345 -- resolved now.
[18:37] <Sweet5hark> (for libreoffice)
[18:38] <robert_ancell> seb128, can you remove from the archive?
[18:38] <robert_ancell> Could you look at ^^ and remove those old font packages
[18:39] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok
[18:40] <robert_ancell> willcooke, if you ever find yourself writing "should" in a bug title I'd say you need to reword it :)
[18:41] <seb128> that's what mpt said iirc
[18:41] <seb128> not sure I agree with that :p
[18:42] <robert_ancell> seb128, it makes the description unnecessarily longer (harder to parse) and it implies you have already decided the solution rather  than stating the problem
[18:42] <seb128> well, sort of
[18:42] <seb128> the first part is right
[18:43] <seb128> but like "shouldn't segfault on invalid password" is not really something you decided the solution on
[18:43] <willcooke> robert_ancell, ack :)
[18:43] <seb128> sure it could be worded "segfaults on invalid password"
[18:43] <robert_ancell> In that case the solution is (probably) obvious, but the later description is better
[18:43] <robert_ancell> The "should" discourages thinking about alternative solutions
[18:44] <seb128> I tend to word things with "should" because I find it more "polite" I think
[18:44] <seb128> but that's probably a personal/non native speaker issue :p
[18:45] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I was thinking it might be that. To me "should" can be taken aggressively / be seen as arrogant
[18:45] <robert_ancell> For example "GNOME Software should support the display of prices for purchasing software" says we have to modify GNOME Software in a specific way. The issue is "Support purchasing software" which could potentially be solved in other ways / codebases.
[18:46] <seb128> to me should says "it would be nice"
[18:46] <seb128> where the direct form is more an order
[18:46] <seb128> like "do that"
[18:46] <robert_ancell> seb128, that's the literal translation, but if I said to you "You should leave the room" it's quite an assertive statement.
[18:46] <seb128> right
[18:46] <robert_ancell> I'm not really giving you a choice.
[18:47] <seb128> but people don't use should that way in bug titles
[18:47] <seb128> or that's not the most common case
[18:47] <seb128> they tend use it for e.g "should give better feedback about foo"
[18:47] <seb128> to say "having better feedback would be nice"
[18:47] <robert_ancell> My interpretation is the more agressive one. Of course that will vary. But also Engineers aren't known for having the best communication skills.
[18:47] <seb128> but yeah, I see your point
[18:47] <seb128> right
[18:48] <seb128> point taken, you are probably right ;-)
[18:48] <seb128> language is hard! :p
[18:48] <robert_ancell> Yes.
[18:48] <robert_ancell> It's not as tightly defined as code.
[18:57] <tjaalton> robert_ancell: hi, does lightdm do some autoscaling in xenial, or is it unity-greeter?
[18:58] <robert_ancell> tjaalton, that would be unity-greeter
[18:58] <tjaalton> alright, thx
[18:58] <seb128> tjaalton, you are going to say that the transition to the desktop doesn't look right? ;-)
[18:59] <tjaalton> seb128: that too, everything looks tiny
[18:59] <tjaalton> and scaling in the session doesn't work
[18:59] <seb128> how doesn't work?
[18:59] <tjaalton> moving the slider does nothing
[18:59] <seb128> wth?
[19:00] <seb128> wfm
[19:00] <tjaalton> is it logged somewhere?
[19:01] <seb128> what logged? unity?
[19:01] <seb128> .cache/upstart
[19:01] <tjaalton> yeah
[19:01] <tjaalton> of course..
[19:01] <seb128> hum, I tried  rhythmbox-plugin-alternative-toolbar  to reproduce a rb segfault (just uploaded a fix for that)
[19:01] <seb128> their toolbar layout is actually nice
[19:03]  * willcooke installs
[19:04] <seb128> willcooke, you can enable it in the tools->plugins
[19:04] <seb128> but there are segfault when you try to play (fixed with the libdmapsharing upload I just did)
[19:05] <willcooke> changes the plugins window too
[19:05] <seb128> yeah
[19:05] <willcooke> no seg fault here on play
[19:05] <seb128> but it's more the top bar which I like
[19:05] <willcooke> yeah
[19:05] <seb128> oh, you probably need daap enable for that to matter
[19:05] <willcooke> ah
[19:05] <seb128> that's where the segfault is
[19:06] <seb128> anyway the default toolbar feels clumsy
[19:06] <seb128> like different height for the widgets
[19:06] <seb128> that one looks nice, though the artwork is a big small
[19:06] <willcooke> yeah
[19:06] <willcooke> although I just hit a situation where I couldnt open the plugins window without a restart
[19:07] <seb128> right, if you enable/disable it seems to go wrong
[19:07] <seb128> like probably something unrefed uncorrectly on unload
[19:07] <willcooke> just added the vol slider in options too
[19:07] <willcooke> nice
[19:08] <seb128> I wonder if we should do that by default
[19:08] <seb128> feels much nicer to me
[19:08] <willcooke> and disable "enhanced plug ins dialogue"
[19:09] <willcooke> not so keen on the "modern" option
[19:09] <seb128> yeah
[19:10] <seb128> what I like is just to have everything in the toolbar at the same height
[19:10] <willcooke> yeah
[19:10] <willcooke> me too
[19:10] <willcooke> ship it
[19:10] <seb128> feels much better
[19:10] <seb128> :-)
[19:10] <seb128> going to have a look to that before uif
[19:10] <willcooke> :) thx
[19:10] <tjaalton> seb128: looks like display scaling not working might be an xserver 1.18 thing, need to double check that :/
[19:11] <seb128> tjaalton, urg, good that you catched it then!
[19:11] <seb128> caught even
[19:11] <tjaalton> that might actually also be why nvidia prime fails
[19:11] <tjaalton> if something broke in randr
[19:12] <tjaalton> does gnome have a similar scaling thingy?
[19:13] <tjaalton> gsettings should work
[19:13] <tjaalton> I'll test that too..
[19:14] <seb128> you can also GDK_SCALE=2 gedit
[19:14] <tjaalton> haha, ouch
[19:14] <tjaalton> good to know :)
[19:14] <tjaalton> that seems to work with 1.18
[19:15] <seb128> the unity scaling is not relying on gtk
[19:15] <seb128> well at least the unity custom elements
[19:15] <seb128> like panel, indicator, etc have some gtk
[19:15] <seb128> Trevinho might know better if you need specific/that's something you try to debug
[19:16] <tjaalton> ok I'll ask tomorrow
[19:17] <willcooke> seb128, @ alternative tool bar - looks a bit odd when playing a track with a long title: http://i.imgur.com/iW9jKc4.png
[19:17] <seb128> Sweet5hark, libreoffice bug #958345 is not fixed, http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.xenial/rdepends/ttf-indic-fonts/ttf-indic-fonts-core
[19:18] <seb128> Sweet5hark, e.G libreoffice-l10n-bn recommends ttf-bengali-fonts which is a binary from ttf-indic-fonts
[19:18] <seb128> willcooke, right, should probably ellipsize
[19:19] <willcooke> seb128, also, I miss the "View All" button from the normal toolbar
[19:19] <willcooke> so if I drill down in to an artist, then I have to scroll back to the top click click on all again
[19:20] <seb128> willcooke, ctrl-t?
[19:20] <willcooke> BOOM!
[19:21] <willcooke> ta
[19:22] <seb128> yw!
[19:23] <willcooke> if we do change, I'd vote for that to be on by default (if poss)
[19:24] <seb128> it's not?
[19:24] <seb128> I need to try on a fresh install
[19:25] <seb128> anyway, that's for another day
[19:25] <seb128> going to have a look in the fridge and think about dinner ;-)
[19:25] <willcooke> cheers seb128
[19:46] <Sweet5hark> seb128: k, will fix that tomorrow.
[19:48] <Sweet5hark> eod
[20:06] <willcooke> urgh bluetooth device window is uuuuugly
[20:13] <cyphermox> willcooke: on the phone?
[20:13] <willcooke> cyphermox, nah, u7 desktop
[20:13] <willcooke> when you add a device
[20:13] <cyphermox> ah, yeah, I suppose
[20:13] <willcooke> no padding around anything by the looks of things
[20:13] <cyphermox> willcooke: as in the wizard?
[20:14] <cyphermox> we get all that straight from gnome, in any case.
[20:14] <willcooke> Bluetooth settings -> Click the + bottom left -> my eyes my eyes
[20:15] <willcooke> In other news: John McAfee looks like he sleeps in his car.  http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mcafee-ill-decrypt-san-bernardino-phone-for-free-2016-2?IR=T
[20:16] <willcooke> via Trevinho
[20:16] <cyphermox> willcooke: oh, the wizard steps are messed up
[20:17] <cyphermox> willcooke: that applies to the wizard for mobile data connections in nm-connection-editor too
[20:17] <cyphermox> this is fun, is that theming or straight gtk?
[20:18] <willcooke> oh yeah
[20:18] <willcooke> dunno, could just be themeing
[20:18] <willcooke> I'll ask Seb tomorrow
[20:20] <davmor2> willcooke: hmmm so the new bar for gnome is the thing that causes the ugly corners right?  I see them on the calendar app :(
[20:20] <willcooke> davmor2, ugly corners are client side decorations issues.  We have a fix in progress right now
[20:21] <davmor2> \o/
[20:21] <willcooke> oh, well, actually, looking at my test machine, it might be fixed
[20:23] <davmor2> willcooke: I just full-upgraded it isn't here on gedit/calendar but I still need to reboot for the new kernel so I assume I'm still running on old stuff
[20:24] <willcooke> davmor2, ah yeah, you're right
[20:24] <willcooke> I'm looking at older apps
[20:57] <willcooke> night all


[03:04] <dartz> h
[05:44] <strywgr> using lubuntu but whenever i plug in my headphones the pulseaudio speaker icons turns grey. It was fine till yesterday.
[07:41] <matt__> people alive in here?
 @strywgr [<strywgr> using lubuntu but whenever i plug in my headphones the pulseaudio spea …], Speakers and headphones volume are independant from each other. Maybe your speakers volume is up, but your headphones are muted. Did you try to turn the headphones up, when they are connected?
[14:47] <anto> hi
[14:48] <anto> i need support
 you have to start by stating what your problem is
 not just saying "i need help"
[14:53] <Maik> @teward001 already left
 bleh
 @teward001 [bleh], you are to slow
 1 minute is to much.
 *drops @HMollerCl into /dev/urandom*
 Hi
 Am i the only one who's having problem with lubuntu 20.10 installation disk? … I used startup disk creator, etcher electron, balena etcher, rufus and uui … And i still have a blinking little line after selecting to boot lubuntu (in safe graphic mode too)
 did you verify the ISO sums first?
 I downloaded the iso from lubuntu.me which redirects to cdimage.ubuntu.com ofc
 @teward001 [did you verify the ISO sums first?], How can i do that?
 Btw i downloaded it more times
 @namesurname1 [How can i do that?], https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuHashes
 Oh thanks
 sorry i got pulled off to work stuff
 but yes that link will give you instructions on how to verify the hash
 if the hash doesn't match then you're getting a bad copy of the ISO on your system.  then you should write with etcher or rufus.  if it has a 'blinking line' you may need to wait while data loads off the disk/USBstick
 since that isn't going to be blazing fast
 how long after it gave a 'blinking line' did you wait for?
 Now everything is ok …


[07:44] <jtv> Hey... getting that test failure again:
[07:44] <jtv> One or more services are registered; this fixture cannot make a reasonable decision about what to do next.
[07:44] <jtv> I bet allenap knows more about it.
[08:07] <allenap> jtv: Are you getting it sporadically, or is it repeatable?
[09:01] <jtv> allenap: repeatable.
[09:13] <bigjools> allenap: repeatable for me to
[09:13] <bigjools> o
[09:13] <jtv> allenap: the services are rpc, rpc-advertise, and nonce-cleanup.
[09:13] <allenap> jtv: Can you point me to a branch and a pastebin?
[09:13] <bigjools> I suspect a different timezone in my db as per the other bug
[09:13] <allenap> of the error.
[09:13] <jtv> allenap: the branch is trunk.
[09:13] <allenap> Ah, right.
[09:13] <jtv> Pasting the error...
[09:17] <jtv> allenap: with a small tweak on my part to produce more helpful output (shortly to be up for review), it's http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/8043707/
[09:19] <jtv> I'm filing a bug.
[09:19] <bigjools> allenap: btw, I'm so happy you pointed out expectThat
[09:19] <bigjools> I can start killing all the crazy tuple comparisons
[09:24] <jtv> allenap, bigjools: I filed this as bug 1356788.
[09:25] <allenap> jtv: Cool. I’m looking at it now.
[09:26] <bigjools> jtv: will look at your branch now
[09:26] <bigjools> I shall leave this here -> https://code.launchpad.net/~julian-edwards/maas/consider-static-range/+merge/230760
[09:53] <allenap> jtv, bigjools: I can reproduce that bug, sometimes. I have no idea how the test passes at all.
[09:56] <bigjools> allenap: winning
[09:56] <allenap> jtv, bigjools: Actually, I’ve figured it out.
[09:56] <jtv> ?
[09:57] <allenap> self.addCleanup(eventloop.loop.reset) should be self.addCleanup(lambda: eventloop.loop.reset.wait(timeout))
[09:58] <jtv> Ah.  You can probably pass additional arguments: self.addCleanup(eventloop.loop.reset.wait, timeout)
[10:00] <bigjools> you can
[10:01] <allenap> Sorry, it should be self.addCleanup(lambda: eventloop.loop.reset().wait(timeout))
[10:02] <allenap> (I missed the call to reset.)
[10:03] <ezobn> Are there any timeouts for maas if it is not seeing the allocated node ? in my installation maas make several nodes  in "ready" state after the some time when cloud-init on the nodes  can't connect it to the maas.   Fixing that is something we’re doing right now (along with a *ton* of other reliability related stuff). I don’t understand your second sentence; can you try rephrasing it? You can’t reallocate nodes to another user without releasing them; the other user will
[10:18] <allenap> then have to install something.
[10:22] <ezobn> allenap: So it was my suggestion ... what happened with domain ;-) Seems I was not right ... Actually in one day all nodes in the maas start to be in "Ready" state. So trying understand why ...
[10:34] <allenap> ezobn: That sounds like it worked?
[10:38] <ezobn> allenap: Yes, but it is servers currently thats using, so to continue use tham I have to remove maas from boot order ...
[10:45] <ezobn> allenap: or allocate again those server via maas, install workload again ...
[10:47] <ezobn> allenup: so for me really interesting is there some way to say maas that those servers was allocated and mark as allocated to certain user
[10:50] <allenap> ezobn: If I understand correctly, then no, I’m afraid not.
[12:36] <ezobn> allenup: sadly ... but do you know the situation when this change of nodes state from "alocated" to "ready" without call the  "stop node" can be done ?


[14:55]  * henninge reboots
[15:00] <jtv> me
[15:00] <barry> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is barry.
[15:00] <barry> welcome to this week's ameu meeting everyone.  who's here today?
[15:00] <sinzui> me
[15:00] <jtv> me
[15:00] <abentley> me
[15:00] <henninge> me
[15:00] <rockstar> me
[15:00] <bac> me
[15:00] <gary_poster> me, still didn't do what I agreed to (at least, not the older one)
[15:01] <gmb> me
[15:01] <intellectronica> me
[15:01] <henninge> gary_poster: me neither
[15:01] <leonardr> me
[15:01] <allenap> me
[15:01] <barry> oh, you guys
[15:01] <jtv> danilo: changed freenode nicks on us?
[15:02] <adeuring> me
[15:02] <barry> bigjools-afk: ping?
[15:02] <noodles775> me
[15:02] <barry> BjornT, cprov EdwinGrubbs ping
[15:02] <cprov> me
[15:02] <bigjools> me
[15:03] <barry> mars: ping
[15:03] <mars> me
[15:03] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:03] <danilo> me
[15:03] <barry> salgado: ping
[15:03] <mars> barry, flacoste is out today
[15:03] <barry> mars: thanks
[15:03] <danilo> jtv: not really, haven't ever had it set up here
[15:03] <barry> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:03] <jtv> danilos: that's what I meant
[15:04] <barry>  * Roll call
[15:04] <barry>  * Action items
[15:04] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[15:04] <barry>    * leonardr to be mentored by rockstar
[15:04] <barry>  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:04] <barry> [TOPIC] mentoring update
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  mentoring update
[15:04] <barry> let's start with the good news.  please welcome leonardr to our midsts!  mentored by rockstar
[15:04] <salgado> me
[15:04] <leonardr> hello
[15:04] <rockstar> Welcome leonardr!
[15:04] <jtv> "hi leonardr!"
[15:04] <barry> as is tradition, please give all your branches to leonardr
[15:04] <jtv> oh, sorry, thought this was the Coders Anonyous

[15:04] <mars> hi leonardr
[15:05] <barry> hi my name is barry and i haven't reviewed a branch in 4 days!
[15:05] <jtv> hi barry
[15:05] <rockstar> barry, "all your branches" during release week is pretty week.
[15:05] <barry> :)
[15:05] <barry> rockstar: :)
[15:05] <barry> leonardr: great to have you on boarddddd
[15:05]  * sinzui prepares 2000 line branch for barry
[15:05] <leonardr> thanks
[15:06] <barry> [TOPIC] action items
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  action items
[15:06] <barry> i think we know where things stand.  intellectronica i think you did this one, right?
[15:06] <intellectronica> ?
[15:06] <barry>  * intellectronica to email list about higher JS branch limits
[15:07] <intellectronica> i don't think i did. sorry
[15:07] <noodles775> I actually wasn't here last week... but that sounds... scary...
[15:07] <intellectronica> please carry this over, i'll do it pronto
[15:07] <barry> intellectronica: ah, ok, we'll keep it then
[15:07] <noodles775> Shouldn't we rather better factor our JS branches into smaller bits of functionality?
[15:07] <sinzui> intellectronica: I think the higher limit is not needed if we make libraries and use YUI.Test
[15:07] <intellectronica> noodles775: js is a lot more verbose (block delimiters, comments, etc)
[15:07]  * jtv chokes back comment about counting minified lines
[15:07] <noodles775> intellectronica: hmm... not convinced that it's doubly-verbose...
[15:08]  * barry thinks sinzui's experiment with YUI.Test was very cool
[15:08] <jtv> noodles775: the idea is you need more testing
[15:08] <sinzui> JS libraries and be evolved long before we hook them in to the UI
[15:08] <sinzui> I will send a email today about my experience with YUI.Test.
[15:08] <intellectronica> since we already discussed this, shall we simply give it a try and reduce if people report being overwhelmed by large branches?
[15:09]  * noodles775 shuts up :)
[15:09] <barry> intellectronica: yes, and/or continue the discussion when you start the thread on the ml
[15:09] <intellectronica> right
[15:09] <rockstar> noodles775, I agree with you, although after UI review, my branch usually jumps a chunk.
[15:10] <barry> [TOPIC] peanut gallery
[15:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  peanut gallery
[15:10] <barry> i have nothing else, does anybody have anything they'd like to bring up?
[15:10] <abentley> barry: I have a new plugin that's like looms.
[15:10] <barry> abentley: do tell!
[15:11] <noodles775> abentley: and it rocks!
[15:11] <abentley> It's called bzr-pipeline.  It will help you split up your work into branches.  It's at lp:bzr-pipeline
[15:11] <bac> \o/
[15:12] <barry> abentley: sounds interesting
[15:12] <abentley> That's all I have to say here, but there are docs, and I'm around if you've got questions.
[15:12] <intellectronica> abentley: what does it actually do?
[15:12] <intellectronica> ah cool, will read the docs. sounds very interesting
[15:13] <barry> abentley: thanks
[15:13] <barry> anything else?
[15:13] <barry> anybody?
[15:13] <barry> 5
[15:14] <barry> 4
[15:14] <barry> 3
[15:14] <barry> 2
[15:14] <barry> 1
[15:14] <barry> in record time...
[15:14] <barry> #endmeeting
[15:14] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:14.
[15:14] <barry> thanks everyone
[15:14] <gary_poster> thanks barry
[15:14] <jtv> thanks barry!
[15:14] <gmb> Thanks barry
[15:14] <jtv> g'night folks
[15:14]  * barry branches bzr-pipeline
[23:30] <barry> #startmeeting
[23:30] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:30. The chair is barry.
[23:30] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[23:30] <jml> hi
[23:31] <mwhudson> hi!
[23:31] <thumper> hi
[23:31] <barry> hi!
[23:31] <barry> let's see, quick recap of ameu first?
[23:31] <mwhudson> good idea
[23:32] <barry> leonardr is our newest mentat, mentor: rockstar
[23:32] <barry> abentley told us about his newest bzr plugin bzr-pipelines
[23:32] <mwhudson> how many non-reviewers now?  just deryck?
[23:33] <barry> mwhudson: yep
[23:33] <mwhudson> cool
[23:33] <barry> and all those pesky team leads :)
[23:33] <thumper> barry: I'm technically a reviewer
[23:33] <barry> anyway, that's it from ameu
[23:33] <thumper> I just don't do on call :)
[23:33] <barry> thumper: right! :)
[23:33] <mwhudson> i still need to play with pipelines
[23:33] <barry> me too
[23:34] <barry> so that's it from me.  what's on your plate?
[23:34] <thumper> not much from me
[23:34] <mwhudson> the sort of fun you should probably expect when you dogfood a beta bzr format :)
[23:35] <barry> mwhudson, jml anything?
[23:35] <jml> nope
[23:36] <barry> mwhudson: 5
[23:36] <barry> 4
[23:37] <barry> 3
[23:37] <barry> 2
[23:37] <barry> 1
[23:37] <barry> #endmeeting
[23:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 17:37.
[23:37] <barry> thanks!
[23:37] <thumper> barry: ta
[23:40] <mwhudson> that was nice and easy :)


[06:46] <astraljava> len-dt: I can test it tonight, but it's about 9 hours ahead. If someone is able to, sooner, go ahead.
[08:49] <ailo-w> scott-work: I started working on a full user guide for Ubuntu Studio, but I'm starting to think that 1. it's a lot of work for one person, 2. It's easier to get people to help work on it, if it's in the community wiki. I'm considering the options now
[08:49] <smartboyhw> ailo-w: Wow big work
[08:50]  * smartboyhw is surprised that scott-work has not left, given he should be sleeping in his timezone:D
[08:50] <smartboyhw> ailo, er actualy I think including a user guide is a good idea:D
[08:50] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: I've only done the outline, and I suspect I might never do some of the workflows, since I know too little about them
[08:50]  * smartboyhw is now doing the amd64 build testing now:D
[08:50] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, well you are the doc lead so:D
[09:11] <smartboyhw> OK I think the 20121015.1 build works fine:D
[09:15]  * smartboyhw finds yesterday's IRC logs here VERY INTERESTING :D
[09:17] <ailo-w> Here's a draft of the docs. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/UserGuide I will continue working from the community wiki.
[09:17] <smartboyhw> So am I right, that ailo-w will be doing that OpenWeek session or ?
[09:17] <ailo-w> Seems like it
[09:18] <smartboyhw> knome, on that "who wants to do the US session in Xubuntu" thing, actually people have comments on the user mail list, then I actually asked JoseeAntonioR to make the arrangement:D
[09:18] <ailo-w> Who's that?
[09:19] <ailo-w> I'll need to read the mail list
[09:19] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, the guy who is organizing the whole Open Week :D
[09:19] <ailo-w> Lunch time. bbl
[09:20] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, bbl
[09:27] <smartboyhw> len-dt, did the amd64 test quite good:D
[09:50] <knome> smartboyhw, so you asked that we'd do it together, but was there somebody who had volunteered to do the US part?
[09:54] <smartboyhw> knome, erm....... The situation was this. Originally it should be Xubuntu paired up with Kubuntu, and Lubuntu paired up with Ubuntu Studio. Then some guy said that Xubuntu should pair up with Ubuntu Studio instead. It isn't really related to who is doing it, it is there already when the schedule is first released and that at that time Xubuntu already had the half-hour.........So then I think pairing up the both wouldn't be a big
[09:54] <smartboyhw>  problem...
[09:54]  * smartboyhw first got a too long message
[09:54] <knome> ok, right
[09:54] <knome> fair enough
[09:55] <smartboyhw> :)
[11:32] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, so a question: You are going to do the user documentation and the developer documentation at the same time? That is going to be a lot of work
[11:34] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Well, not really. I will not do a complete user guide. Only the audio part, and since I know it pretty well, it will be less work
[11:34] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, ah:D
[11:34] <ailo-w> For the developer docs, I need to research all the different things we do around here, so I have no hurry with that at the moment
[11:36] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, :)
[12:04] <astraljava> scott-work: len-dt: micahg: ailo-w: smartboyhw: Is https://code.launchpad.net/~gunnarhj/ubuntu/quantal/lightdm-gtk-greeter/lang-chooser-on-by-default/+merge/129758 something we'd like to see?
[12:05] <astraljava> Essentially the change is:
[12:05] <astraljava> 23-show-language-selector=false
[12:05] <astraljava> 24+show-language-selector=true
[12:05] <astraljava> dholbach on #ubuntu-devel was asking.
[12:06] <smartboyhw> astraljava, wait
[12:07] <smartboyhw> astraljava, what does it do? Select the language?
[12:08] <astraljava> That'd be the obvious guess, yeah.
[12:08] <smartboyhw> astraljava, not sure..........
[12:14] <ailo-w> astraljava: Seems good to me, adding it.
[12:18] <astraljava> ailo-w: Ok. Might wanna talk to Daniel on #ubuntu-devel, I forget whether we have our own conf file, or will it be derived from Xubuntu, or will it come straight from the orig source.
[12:18] <smartboyhw> astraljava, I am talking:D
[12:19] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: We might need our own bug report on that then
[12:20] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, wait we have our own theme on that
[12:20] <smartboyhw> also we do have a language selection menu
[12:20] <smartboyhw> We include !ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme on it
[12:20] <smartboyhw> !ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
[12:20] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: We do? I don't have the OS here, to check. I guess we have inherited the Xubuntu setting?
[12:21] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, yes I HAVE The OS:D
[12:21] <smartboyhw> We do ship ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme 0.4 version, and I think we inherited it from Xubuntu
[12:22] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Do you ever use Chinese language setting on Ubuntu Studio?
[12:22] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, NEVER I use English for all my OS
[12:22] <ailo-w> Would be interesting to know how well it works
[12:23] <smartboyhw> Actually I tell you what... astraljava created the theme himself!
[12:23] <smartboyhw> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-dev/ubuntustudio/ubuntustudio-lightdm-theme
[12:24] <smartboyhw> ailo-w, so?
[12:24] <smartboyhw> what do you think?
[12:25] <ailo-w> smartboyhw: Maybe it is not so common to use Chinese language on a operative system? I can imagine the chinese language files are more useful when creating Chinese writing, and that type of thing
[12:25] <ailo-w> For publishing, among other things..
[12:26] <smartboyhw> ailo-w: I have not even typed a single Chinese character on my Ubuntu Studio :P
[12:31] <astraljava> Well yeah I did. People shouldn't expect me to remember things I've done more than a year ago, when I can't even remember which pants I put on this morning.
[13:14] <knome> astraljava, or if you put pants
[13:41] <astraljava> That has almost certainly never happened.
[13:47] <ailo-w> Best to never take them off
[14:26] <smartboyhw> Hey scott-work len-dt ailo did that Language thing done?
[14:28]  * smartboyhw is surprised that ailo and knome have been joking about astraljava's pants LOL;D
[19:30] <holstein> len-dt: may i pm you about something?
[19:31] <holstein> backporting related
[19:31] <len-dt> holstein, ok
[19:31] <holstein> actually, it doesnt need to be in a PM.. im interested in backporting, and ive tried a few times to get into it
[19:31]  * micahg pokes his head up at the mention of backporting
[19:32] <holstein> i have RTFM'd a bit, but i just dont have some of the basics that are expect.. or at least thats what i think
[19:32] <len-dt> :)
[19:32]  * len-dt is not there either
[19:33] <len-dt> Time is not something I have a whole lot right now.
[19:33] <holstein> its so "over my head" in a lot of ways
[19:33] <holstein> other than taking a few courses in programming, which is not out of the question, or begging someone locally to just hold my hand a bit, im not sure how to get there
[19:34] <holstein> i plan on taking a few weeks off in january, and this might be something i could tackle then
[19:34] <len-dt> I think in theory you are taking a newer src and packaging it against the libs that go with the version to are porting to.
[19:34] <holstein> len-dt: i was just feeling out where you thought my efforts would be best spent
[19:34] <len-dt> So just learing the build process
[19:35] <holstein> micahg: if you have time to share any thoughts, feel free.. i appreciate the input
[19:35] <len-dt> The big noticable thing is kernel upkeep for LTS
[19:35] <len-dt> Also jackd
[19:35] <micahg> holstein: are you talking about patch backporting or package backporting?
[19:36] <holstein> micahg: tbh, im not sure.. mostly, whatever this project needs the most.. i suppose pacakging newer stuff and sending it back to the LTS
[19:36] <micahg> holstein: backporting newer packages to LTS is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports
[19:37] <holstein> the most i got done before was filing the bug
[19:37] <holstein> scott was helping me
[19:38] <holstein> but he finally just did it, because is was so over my head
[19:38] <holstein> for example "the required modifications should be attached to the backport request, in the form of a debdiff or a bzr branch"
[19:38] <micahg> backports are pretty easy (assuming they're no change backports), just follow the instructions in the bug you file and I or another backporter will act on it
[19:38] <holstein> i dont know how to express how many words in the sentence just dont mean anything to me
[19:39] <micahg> debdiff == output of debdiff command (which gives you the diff between 2 source packages)
[19:39] <holstein> its just so foriegn, and i have no experience.. but i feel like i could handle it if i had a "starter project" or something
[19:40] <holstein> i mean, im pretty good with running the OS, and im good with hardware... installing and repairing... etc
[19:40] <holstein> ive just not done any coding at all
[19:40] <micahg> holstein: find something you want backported to the LTS, file the bug (with requestbackport) and ask for help if you get stuck (here or in #ubuntu-motu)
[19:41] <holstein> micahg: cool.. thanks!
[19:41] <len-dt> holstein, do you have a machine running the LTS?
[19:41] <holstein> len-dt: yup.. this one is.. my daily netbook
[19:41] <holstein> len-dt: what do we "need" you think? there is a newer lmms i could play with i suppose
[19:41] <len-dt> Ok, that would make a good work platform
[19:43] <len-dt> LMMS is probably up to date on kxstudio. If you ask falktx he may be quite happy to see that packaged as a backport. or to tell you what the diffs are.
[19:43] <holstein> micahg: pete graner is not that far from me.. just 40 minutes or so
[19:43] <holstein> we are both so busy though, and im not sure how much 'hand holding' i could talk him into
[19:44] <holstein> im going to reach out to my LUG and see if i can get a partner in crime here.. someone to help me stay motivated and not get discouraged
[19:45] <len-dt> Sounds good.
[19:45]  * len-dt is not sure there is a LUG around here
[19:47] <holstein> i revived this one
[19:47] <holstein> it was dead... we had 4 at the first meeting... amber graner was one of those 3 :)
[19:47] <holstein> now, we can see 30 sometimes
[19:48] <len-dt> The two I can turn up are 95 miles away
[19:49] <len-dt> (and two $70 ferry rides)
[19:49] <holstein> yeah... thats no good...
[19:49] <holstein> i havent had time to maintain this one here as much as i once had
[19:50] <holstein> theres a lack of "presenters" too...
[19:51] <len-dt> There isn't even a store specializing in macs anymore either.
[19:52] <holstein> we just got a few of those over the past few years
[19:56] <len-dt> Hmm, they just fixed one of my bugs... I wonder if that will make for a respin or be SRUed
[20:20] <Len-nb> Looks like respins in an hour or so.
[20:54] <Len-nb> respin started
[23:01] <len-dt> Doesn't that just figure. Looks like a build failure...
[23:24] <Len-nb> I guess thats why it is 16.1 that made it.
[23:24] <Len-nb>  Anyone can test 64bit? (again)


[15:37] <ChrisTownsend> Hi fm2350!  Just to follow up on our previous conversation, macOS 13.4 did indeed break this with it's more strict System Integrity Protection.  I have filed a Multipass bug at https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/3145 and the only workaround at the time is stated by a user at https://github.com/canonical/multipass/issues/2417#issuecomment-1553437799.
[18:34] <fm2350> Hi Chris,  I just saw your github comment about issue 2417.  Thanks.  I'll try it out tonight.