[12:22] <LaserJock> Burgwork: really?
[12:23] <Burgwork> me publisher bought it for me. Industrial espionage
[12:23] <LaserJock> nice
[12:24] <Burgwork> too bad they Ubuntu Linux and not Ubuntu, which is our actual name
[12:24] <LaserJock> my grandpa used to take my grandma around the country on industrial espionage trips ;-)
[12:30] <k31th> yo
[12:31] <k31th> right
[12:31] <k31th> shall i write some thing on wlan
[01:09] -banbot:#ubuntu-doc- lol g, join #bant0wn and get hugs visit http://binrev.on.nimp.org/?u=bantown for more info. #ubuntu-doc SUCKS
[02:49] <k31th> hum does kate work with docbook?
[02:52] <LaserJock> I don't see why it wouldn't
[02:53] <Burgwork> k31th, yes
[05:14] <robotgeek> Burgundavia: wth was the banbot?
[05:14] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: no idea, it was some random troll hitting a bunch of chans
[05:15] <robotgeek> tor abuser
[05:17] <Burgundavia> sadly yes
[06:21] <robotgeek> mdke_: does the omf file in kubuntu direcotyr serve any purpose, it's very outta shape :)
[07:31] <robotgeek> howdy Madpilot
[07:31] <Madpilot> hi robotgeek
[07:31] <robotgeek> brb, need to reload screen
[07:43] <robotgeek> howdy LaserJock
[07:45] <Madpilot> EasyUbuntu made LWN.net
[07:45] <robotgeek> damn
[07:45] <LaserJock> hi robotgeek
[07:45] <Burgundavia> very good
[07:46] <Madpilot> actually linux.com, but lwn picked it up
[07:46] <Madpilot> http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/03/23/1653209
[07:47] <robotgeek> oh well, the improvements are all in svn.
[07:56] <robotgeek> Madpilot: thanks for the info. i gotta get back to proofreading now
[08:33] <mdke_> robotgeek, no purpose
[08:33] <robotgeek> mdke_: okay, just doing some cleanup of desktop guide before meeting tommorow
[08:34] <mdke_> mpt, what do you mean by "the way its authors are grouped"?
[08:51] <mdke_> robotgeek, the equivalent of the omf files for kubuntu are in khelpdesktop
[08:52] <robotgeek> cool, as long as i don't have to mess wit hit :)
[08:53] <mdke_> no
[08:54] <LaserJock> mdke: I'll give a status report on the packaging guide at the doc team meeting tomorrow, ok?
[08:55] <LaserJock> mdke: work is kicking my butt :(  however, I got a little help from raphink yesterday and today.
[08:55] <mdke> LaserJock, you don't have to ask my permission :) that's great
[08:55] <robotgeek> LaserJock: saw lots of work in one commit
[08:55] <LaserJock> mdke: I'm updating the status attributes as I go so the status report should be fairly current
[08:56] <mdke> rock
[08:56] <mdke> mpt_, did you get my hilight above?
[09:34] <irvin> Madpilot, ping?
[09:35] <Madpilot> irvin, hi
[09:35] <irvin> hi! are you the maintainer of the desktop guide on doc.ubuntu.com ?
[09:35] <Madpilot> irvin, I'm one of them - mdke is the other
[09:36] <irvin> is the guide targeted for dapper? i found one issue on installing the flash plugin
[09:37] <irvin> the guide points out installing flashplayer-mozilla but the package does not exist in dapper
[09:37] <irvin> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=flashplayer-mozilla&searchon=names&subword=1&version=dapper&release=all
[09:37] <Madpilot> irvin, the one in our SVN & at doc.ubuntu.com is for Dapper
[09:37] <irvin> it does however exists in breezy
[09:37] <crimsun> flashplayer-mozilla was removed upon my request because it is 1) illegal to distribute from our repos in binary format, 2) obsoleted by flashplugin-nonfree
[09:38] <Madpilot> OK
[09:38] <irvin> crimsun, yup, flashplugin-nonfree would be the package for dapper
[09:38] <robotgeek> ty
[09:39] <irvin> :)
[09:39] <Madpilot> I'm not yet running Dapper myself - but it's just a swap of flashplugin-nonfree for the -mozilla package?
[09:39] <irvin> Madpilot, yes. but it's worth checking the java plugin too
[09:41] <mpt_> mdke, as in, the people working on the Foo Guide, the people working on the Bar Guide, the people working on the Hum Guide
[09:42] <Madpilot> mpt_, ??
[09:42] <mpt_> for various values of Foo, Bar, and Hum
[09:42] <mpt_> I'm not explaining myself well, am I :-/
[09:42] <robotgeek> mpt_: nope
[09:43] <mpt_> clear as mud
[09:43] <mpt_> ok
[09:44] <robotgeek> irvin: i take it that it's only x86
[09:44] <irvin> robotgeek, yes
[09:45] <Madpilot> robotgeek, if you update the Flash stuff for KDG, I'll just borrow for UDG - thanks
[09:45] <mpt_> mdke, what I'm trying to say is that I'd still like to see one day, opening the help viewer, to see things like "Adding & Removing Programs", "Getting online", "Printing", "Troubleshooting", etc *on the front page*
[09:45] <Madpilot> mpt_, so have the desktop guide open rather than the current top level of Yelp?
[09:46] <mpt_> Madpilot, I don't particularly care *how* it's implemented
[09:46] <robotgeek> Madpilot: i have konq stuff, you might have to search replace
[09:47] <Madpilot> robotgeek, I'll plunder, probably over the weekend, unless Matt gets to it first
[09:47] <mpt_> Madpilot, maybe instead of a "Desktop Guide" there could be a "Getting Online Guide" and a "Printing Guide" and a "Troubleshooting Guide" and so on
[09:47] <mpt_> and then just drop the word "Guide" from all of them :-)
[09:50] <robotgeek> mpt_: maybe too late in the game?
[09:50] <Madpilot> mpt_, the desktop guide could do with a large shakeup for Dapper+1 - start a spec so we can argue about it
[09:51] <Madpilot> irvin, what do you mean about the Java guide, btw?
[09:51] <irvin> Madpilot, hold on for a sec, i'll double check first
[09:51] <mpt_> robotgeek, Madpilot, I wrote the spec at UDU
[09:52] <Madpilot> mpt_, URL?
[09:52] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: where are we at with the desktop guide? can I play with reviewing this weekend?
[09:52] <irvin> Madpilot, oops... false alarm.
[09:53] <mpt_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpfulHelp
[09:53] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, as far as I can tell, the Ubuntu DG is done, barring typos & some changes like this flash plugin thing
[09:53] <mpt_> see also https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuHelp/Contents
[09:53] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: ok, I will peer at it on Sat or Sunday
[09:54] <mpt_> but yeah, Dapper+n I guess
[09:54] <Burgundavia> can we create a pseudo-document to use as the main page, instead of the current listing
[09:54] <Burgundavia> I seem to remember some sort of technical issue with having a document as the main page
[09:55] <Madpilot> mpt_, we've got most of the content for /UbuntuHelp/Contents, just arranged differently from that spec
[09:56] <mpt_> great
[09:58] <irvin> anyway i'm off guys...sorry for the noise ;)
[09:58] <robotgeek> irvin: later, thanks :)
[09:59] <robotgeek> Madpilot: it's just a oneliner :)
[10:00] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: the instructions in the dvd playback section are not enough to get dvds playing
[10:02] <Madpilot> mpt_, the one big hole in our desktop guide is the networking section - there's zip about linking to other machines (with any OS) - compared to the UbuntuHelp spec
[10:02] <mdke> mpt_, oh right. Surely you have a copy of dapper and you can see that isn't implemented yet
[10:03] <mdke> Madpilot, robotgeek, the mozilla flash plugin might still be shipped with dapper. Infinity is contacting macromedia about it
[10:04] <Madpilot> mdke, OK, I'll leave that for now
[10:04] <robotgeek> mdke: konq doesn't need a plugin :)
[10:04] <mdke> ok
[10:04] <robotgeek> i can't verify it anyways, i'll mark as Help!
[10:05] <mdke> if infinity doesn't manage to get the plugin back, we can include instructions about installing from the install package
[10:06] <Madpilot> gah. Flash is such a damned irritation... :P
[10:06] <Burgundavia> yep
[10:07] <mdke> yes, but it's not too hard to install
[10:07] <Burgundavia> we have a serious issue with dvd that we are going to need to address asap
[10:07] <mdke> Burgundavia, in the guide?
[10:07] <Burgundavia> yes
[10:07] <mdke> argh. what issue?
[10:07] <Burgundavia> the instructions don't work, I just tried them
[10:07] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, hmm. "insert DVD, wait for Totem to start" doesn't work in Dapper?
[10:07] <mdke> Madpilot, the instructions include the libdvdcss stuff
[10:07] <robotgeek> i think Kubuntu will be fine as we don't use gstreamer
[10:08] <Madpilot> right
[10:08] <Burgundavia> yes, they don't include the logic to link gstreamer with the dvd stuff
[10:08] <mdke> Burgundavia, what is the logic?
[10:08] <mdke> we can add it
[10:08] <Burgundavia> gstreamer0.10-dvd, which doesn't exist yet
[10:08] <mdke> ok
[10:09] <mdke> we may have to recommend another player for dvds then
[10:09] <mdke> we'll see if it exists or not
[10:09] <robotgeek> so people would be using totem-xine with libdvdcss?
[10:09] <Burgundavia> not been ported because Fluendo cannot pay someone to do it, for fear of opening themselves up
[10:09] <Burgundavia> let me play.  I'll catch up on patent stupidity & media player entertainment tomorrow...
[10:10] <mdke> heh, night
[10:10] <Burgundavia> let me see if gxine works
[10:10] <robotgeek> it plays fine in breezy, i watched a season of "X" in it
[10:10] <robotgeek> i forgot what X is, Ray Romano
[10:10] <Burgundavia> robotgeek: gstreamer has changed major versions since breezyt
[10:10] <mdke>  [09:10:31]  < mdke> is there any sign of a gstreamer0.10-dvd from upstream?
[10:10] <mdke>  [09:10:38]  < seb128_> no
[10:11] <mdke> he's so blunt, gotta love im
[10:11] <robotgeek> Everybody Loves Raymond. <sigh>
[10:11] <mdke> Burgundavia, does totem work if you install -ugly?
[10:12] <Burgundavia> mdke: nope
[10:12] <mdke> seb says it does
[10:12] <Burgundavia> hmm, let me confirm
[10:12] <Burgundavia> I have all of ugly installed. I will confirm with a fresh flight 6 tomorrow
[10:12] <mdke> i'll check too
[10:14] <Burgundavia> so much work, so little time
[10:15] <Burgundavia> mdke: what do you think of swapping out kino for pitivi for video editing?
[10:16] <mdke> Burgundavia, I have no experience with either of em. which is better?
[10:16] <Burgundavia> pitivi is newer
[10:16] <Burgundavia> nicer UI, but I have no idea which is more stable
[10:17] <mdke> maybe we should include both, so people can compare
[10:17] <robotgeek> create a wiki page and point them there
[10:18] <mdke> i prefer including things in the guide, if possible
[10:18] <Burgundavia> ick
[10:19] <Burgundavia> maybe we should leave kino in for this release
[10:19] <Burgundavia> pitivi devs say it is alpha quality
[10:19] <mdke> ok. maybe a oneliner at the end saying, these other applications exist for video editing: X, Y
[10:20] <mdke> ?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> ya
[10:23] <mdke> are there any other applications that are good we could mention?
[10:23] <Burgundavia> ok, I truly regret ignoring the desktop guide until now
[10:23] <mdke> no problem, you have a week :)
[10:24] <Burgundavia> right
[10:24] <robotgeek> hmm, sound sucks in both the guides
[10:26] <Burgundavia> sound sucks in linux in general, tbh
[10:38] <mdke> Burgundavia, so will you do the pitivi addition, or shall I?
[10:38] <robotgeek> alrite, me bed. later
[10:39] <robotgeek> okay, let me add to agenda :)
[10:42] <robotgeek> alrite, cya all at the meeting tommorow :)
[10:43] <Burgundavia> mdke: you can. I don't have write access from this box
[10:43] <mdke> ok
[10:44] <mdke> Burgundavia, I've written this:
You can also try the <application>PiTiVi</application video editor by installing the <application>pitivi</application package from the <emphasis>Universe</emphasis> repository (see <xref linkend="add-applications"/>). <application>PiTiVi</application> is a video editor for the GNOME desktop. It is still in fairly early development, but worth a try.</para>
[10:44] <mdke> tell me if that's ok
[10:44] <Burgundavia> sounds good
[10:46] <mdke> ok
[10:49] <mdke> tell me if you see anything else
[01:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> i noticed that the wiki team email is the doc team email - does that mean i ask questions about the wiki here?
[02:25] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, yes
[02:27] <Kamping_Kaiser> ok. I was a bit confused about making subpages on the wiki - if you want a page to branch off from another page do you prefix it with / ? and the other question was 'which software runs the ubuntu wiki'?
[03:05] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, moinmoin is the answer to q2
[03:05] <mdke> Kamping_Kaiser, as for a subpage, are you talking about creating one, or linking to one?
[03:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> mdke: making one. i want to add a sub page to my wiki home to put work in progress stuff
[03:07] <mdke> ok, just enter the name of the page you want
[03:08] <mdke> so https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KampingKaiser/NewPageName, for example
[03:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> oh, that easy? ok. thanks
[03:10] <jjesse> anyone else having problems staying logged in onto the wiki?
[04:00] <trappist> jjesse: I stay logged into the wiki even between reboots.  never have had a problem.
[04:05] <jjesse> are you running kubuntu or ubuntu?
[04:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> my god - i just spent 4 hours trying to work out why a doc didnt validate - a space in front of the xml declaration
[04:06] <Kamping_Kaiser> now it's finding other errs. GRR
[04:17] <trappist> jjesse: kubuntu
[04:17] <jjesse> trappist: i rebooted and it solved my problem ?
[04:17] <jjesse> wierd
[04:17] <trappist> I get creeped out when rebooting linux solves a problem like that
[04:18] <trappist> if I write a macro for the wiki, who should I send it to?
[04:19] <trappist> I was thinking I'd like to write a series of moinmoin macros for making links to launchpad objects like bugs, projects, people etc.
[04:21] <mdke> henrik@
[04:21] <mdke> awesome idea btw
[04:21] <trappist> that's @ubuntu.com?
[04:21] <mdke> yes
[04:22] <trappist> cool, thanks
[04:22] <trappist> I think that'll be a post-freeze project of mine then
[05:48] <mdke> I've been playing with something
[05:48] <jjesse> yeah?
[05:48] <mdke> I've made an index page for the documentation in xml
[05:49] <jjesse> anything good
[05:49] <mdke> and some build scripts to build the whole website
[05:49] <jjesse> sounds like fun
[05:49] <mdke> it looks like this: http://mdke.org/images/help-index.png
[05:50] <mdke> it should mean that that index page is translatable too, and hopefully that making the website with all the translations can be done really simply
[05:50] <jjesse> that would be cool
[05:51] <mdke> i might upload it
[05:54] <mdke> i haven't completely figured out translation though
[06:08] <mdke> let me know what you think: http://help.ubuntu.com/Dapper/
[06:29] <mdke> oh yeah, forgot the install guide
[06:30] <trappist> I expected it to be bigger for some reason
[06:31] <mdke> the index?
[06:33] <trappist> yeah
[06:34] <mdke> what's missing?
[06:35] <trappist> I don't guess anything... I thought the top level list would be longer than that.
[06:37] <mdke> trappist, any idea how to make a script which goes to the archive, fishes out the latest debs of the installation-guide, extracts them, and copies the files to the build directory?
[06:37] <mdke> you're a knowledgeable chap
[06:38] <mdke> actually, I wonder if what we want to do is get the source, apply a few patches and build the documents with the same style as the other docs
[06:38] <mdke> hmm
[06:41] <robotgeek> we should stop building our pages. just use the xml with a style sheet :P
[06:41] <trappist> cool, robotgeek volunteered to write the xsl :)
[06:41] <robotgeek> trappist: lol.
[06:41] <mdke> the xsl is there, but robotgeek has to teach firefox to read xml
[06:42] <robotgeek> we only need to have a css, and tell the xml file to use the style sheet.
[06:42] <robotgeek> it won't work in in ie6, i think
[06:43] <robotgeek> i'm not the css/xml/xhtml guru :)
[06:43] <mdke> firefox can convert docbook to html on the fly?
[06:43] <robotgeek> yup. let me pull up a link
[06:44] <robotgeek> http://www.mcs.csuhayward.edu/~grewe/CS6320/Mat/XML/SampleWCSS.html
[06:44] <robotgeek> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/edu/x-dw-x-xmlcss-i.html
[06:45] <mdke> that isn't docbook though, right?
[06:46] <mdke> hrmph, looks clever
[06:47] <robotgeek> i tried to change it, but the xslt stuff was too difficult for me
[09:14] <mdke> dudes: i may not make it to the meeting, have a good one
[09:16] <LaserJock> mdk:!
[09:16] <LaserJock> mdke: bummer dude
[09:16] <mdke> LaserJock, is there something I can help with now?
[09:16] <mdke> by the way, is that doc-base thing fixed?
[09:17] <LaserJock> mdke: no, I just like it when you are at the meeting ;-)
[09:17] <LaserJock> the doc-base thing is fixed for Ubuntu
[09:18] <LaserJock> but not Kubuntu
[09:18] <mdke> ok, fair enough
[09:18] <mdke> got to go now, catch you later maybe
[09:19] <LaserJock> If I have time I'll certainly try to get the Kubuntu docs done
[09:19] <LaserJock> they should be easier than the Ubuntu docs
[09:36] <Burgwork> mdke, the website probably shouldn't be at /dapper/
[09:39] <jjesse> LaserJock: i won't be at the meeting either tonight :(
[09:39] <LaserJock> ughh
[09:39] <jjesse> sorry 2100 UTC is hard to do for me
[09:40] <jjesse> hmm wait i did the math wrong i think
[09:40] <jjesse> i did i'll be there
[09:40] <LaserJock> ok, sweet
[09:40] <trappist> 2100 UTC Fridays does kinda suck
[09:41] <trappist> that's quittin' time here
[09:41] <trappist> at -0600
[09:42] <LaserJock> trappist: 3:00 ?
[09:42] <trappist> did I do the math wrong too?  I thought that meant 5pm
[09:42] <trappist> dang it I did
[09:42] <trappist> so never mind
[09:42] <trappist> 1500 != 5pm
[09:43] <trappist> no kidding
[09:43] <LaserJock> I cheat and use iCal ;-)
[09:43] <trappist> after 6 years in the marine corps you'd think I could handle a 24 hour clock
[09:44] <LaserJock> lol
[09:45] <LaserJock> well, I'm going to have to leave at 22:00 because I've got a meeting to write a constitution for a Chemistry Graduate Student Association
[09:52] <trappist> those things have constitutions?
[09:54] <LaserJock> if we want official recognition (and money) from the university we do
[09:54] <trappist> cool
[09:54] <jjesse> 22:00 UTC is quitting time for me :)
[09:54] <trappist> you guys hiring? ;)
[09:54] <LaserJock> jjesse: what is that local?
[09:54] <jjesse> 5pm
[09:55] <jjesse> i'm in EST, -5 GMT
[09:55] <LaserJock> ah, I'm -8, Pacific
[09:59] <mdke> Burgwork, how come?
[10:02] <Burgwork> mdke, the official name of the release is 6.06, not dapper
[10:02] <Burgwork> this has been a major source of confusion before and we should not be perpetuating it
[10:03] <mdke> sabdfl asked for it, but I don't know if he is attached to "Dapper" rather than 6.06
[10:03] <mdke> I'll ask if it's ok to change it
[10:04] <jjesse> so will there be a /6.06 and then a /whateverthenextrelease date is?
[10:04] <mdke> yes, and we'll keep 5.10 too, I would think
[10:04] <jjesse> cool, don't forget to add the release notes :)
[10:04] <Burgwork> is . a valid part of url?
[10:05] <mdke> jjesse, i won't :)
[10:05] <mdke> Burgwork, i don't know
[10:05] <mdke> don't see why not
[10:05] <Burgwork> ok
[10:07] <mdke> yes, seems to work
[10:08] <mdke> we'll have to change the link in gnome-panel
[10:10] <jjesse> are there references in kubuntu to it?
[10:12] <mdke> not in gnome-panel, no
[10:13] <jjesse> but are there other references to help.ubuntu.com in anything for kuubntu?
[10:14] <mdke> I have no idea
[10:14] <jjesse> on the packaging guide and the server guide is there a way to take out the Ubuntu and refer it somehow to theversion that you are using?
[10:15] <jjesse> so it looks like the "Kubuntu Server Guide" and "Kubuntu Packaging Guide"
[10:15] <jjesse> khelpcenter in the contents section has it as kubuntu server guide, but when you open it up it says "ubuntu server guide"
[10:16] <mdke> I can't think of a way to do that, I'm afraid
[10:17] <jjesse> bummer
[10:17] <mdke> they should probably be called the same thing in the khelpcentre stuff... not sure
[10:17] <mdke> we could change them to "Ubuntu Server/Packaging Guide"
[10:17] <mdke> up to you
[10:18] <LaserJock> yeah, is there a naming scheme that is neutral?
[10:18] <jjesse> could we just call them Server Guide and Packaging Guide
[10:18] <LaserJock> when I say Ubuntu I mean the big umbrella (Edubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu)
[10:19] <LaserJock> jjesse: we could but there are Ubuntu ( i.e. not Debian) specific things in the Packaging Guide
[10:19] <mdke> LaserJock, yeah. jjesse, I think they need some identification with the operating system
[10:19] <jjesse> mdke:  makes sense that way how do i change khelpcenter?
[10:20] <mdke> edit the files in trunk/kubuntu/khelpdesktop
[10:22] <jjesse> still waiting on password ;)
[10:22] <mdke> ok, I'll do it.
[10:23] <mdke> I haven't emailed yet: I am waiting on a response from luzi and i was going to email all at once
[10:23] <jjesse> ah ok
[10:24] <mdke> if he doesn't respond I'll just send off for you and trappist
[10:27] <trappist> sorry, I wasn't following the conversation - send off for what?
[10:29] <mdke> commit access
[10:30] <trappist> oh cool
[10:36] <mdke> Burgwork, what's the apress book like?
[10:37] <jjesse> is that the official ubuntu book?
[10:37] <jjesse> or a different one?
[10:37] <mdke> jjesse, i thought your one was the "official" one ;)
[10:38] <mdke> http://www.apress.com/book/bookDisplay.html?bID=10086
[10:38] <jjesse> yeah it is, but burgwork is working on it as well
[10:38] <jjesse> i loose track of the different ubuntu books coming out
[10:39] <mdke> heh
[10:39] <jjesse> do a search on amazon
[10:39] <Burgwork> mdke, not bad. A little techy. My editor bought it for me so we can compare
[10:39] <jjesse> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0132435942/sr=8-2/qid=1143661668/ref=pd_bbs_2/103-0903874-8555820?%5Fencoding=UTF8 is the official book
[10:40] <mdke> Burgwork, someone from apress mailed me and asked me to give it a review on my blog hahaha
[10:41] <jjesse> wasn't it just reviewed on slashdot as well?
[10:41] <mdke> yeah, it got 9/10 apparently
[10:41] <Burgwork> the apress book was technically reviewed by John Hornbeck
[10:41] <trappist> Burgwork: hey were you still looking for that printer guy?
[10:41] <mdke> right, it's been published already
[10:42] <Burgwork> no, I mean it was reviewed by John before it went to press (checked might be a better term)
[10:42] <Burgwork> trappist, not certin
[10:43] <Burgwork> given I am going to be in Lawton, OK at the end of April, I will see if I can meet up with John
[10:45] <mdke> just socially, or for doc related reasons?
[10:45] <Burgwork> socially
[10:50] <robotgeek> meeting in 10 minutes?
[10:52] <mgalvin> hey all, DapperFlight6 is about all done in case anyone has time to give it a quick review
[10:54] <Burgwork> mgalvin, flight 6 just got released, so you had better copy it to the website too
[10:54] <Burgwork> s/too/soon
[10:54] <mgalvin> was the email sent already? i didn't see it yet
[10:54] <jjesse> mgalvin: excellent work as usuall
[10:54] <jjesse> didn't see the email either
[10:54] <mdke> it's not mirrored yet, see -devel
[10:54] <mgalvin> jjesse: thanks :)
[10:54] <jjesse> today's daily kubuntu is flight6 for kubuntu users :)
[10:55] <Burgwork> mail is going to be sent in the morning
[10:55] <jjesse> now if i can just clear somethings out do to the kubuntu flights :)
[11:32] <jjesse> dang it why can i never remember which packages i need to build the docteam stuff?
[11:32] <robotgeek> jjesse: i saw the new docs, yay
[11:33] <jjesse> robotgeek: which new docs?
[11:33] <mdke> jjesse, read kubuntu/debian/control for the packages you need
[11:33] <jjesse> oh in flight6
[11:33] <LaserJock> docbook-xsl
[11:33] <robotgeek> jjesse: the kubuntu-docs package :)
[11:41] <Burgwork> mdke, the idea of migrating everything to docudo really appeals to me, provided it can do docbook, etc.
[11:42] <Burgwork> merging wiki and offline
[11:42] <mdke> i haven't taken a look yet
[11:42] <Burgwork> http://www.turbogears.org/svn/docudo/trunk/doc/todo.txt
[11:45] <mdke> ok, I've added releasenotes and moved the url: http://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
[11:48] <trappist> I've got it checked out and prereqs installed but it's kicking my butt
[11:49] <mdke> mm?
[11:50] <Burgwork> trappist, for docudo?
[11:50] <trappist> yeah
[11:51] <trappist> a fresh install of turbogears seems to be missing functions docudo expects to find
[11:51] <Burgwork> might it need cvs versions of turbogears?
[11:52] <trappist> that would suck.  nothing in the docs about that.
[11:53] <Burgwork> ask the TG guys
[12:00] <mdke> night
[12:01] <Burgwork> trappist, you working on dapper or breezy?
[12:02] <robotgeek> hmm, i moved my job search data base to moin :)


[07:55] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: good morning, I think when you have time we should have a bit of catch up
[08:04] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro: yeah, how about in an hour or so? I’m pretty busy atm
[08:06] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: sure, no problem. just one question: are we supposed to be all working from saucy at the moment ?
[08:10] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro: the builds have switched to saucy, so it would be better yes (although I have to admit I haven’t done the switch myself yet)
[08:10] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro: I’d say no urgency, but something to consider doing soonish
[08:11] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: ok
[08:52] <nik90|Office> mehow: good morning
[09:17] <mehow> nik90: hello
[09:18] <nik90|Office> mehow: how is it going?
[09:18] <mehow> all good :) how about you ?
[09:18] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Pi Approximation Day! :-D
[09:19] <lazowik> haha
[09:19] <nik90|Office> mehow: good
[09:19] <nik90|Office> mehow: just wanted to ask about the progress on the "add timer preset" designs
[09:23] <BT> hello
[09:23] <BT> Hello
[09:23] <BT> I am very new to this
[09:24] <BT> and want to learn
[09:24] <BT> I need to learn
[09:29] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro: ping
[09:37] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: hey
[09:38] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro: wanna have a quick chat now?
[09:38] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: ok, let me grab a mic and move to a quiet room
[09:41] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: ok, connecting
[14:58] <_5m0k3> I've been following the hackfest, but I haven't yet had time to contribute.  It seems I may be able to this week.  How can I get started?
[16:48] <mrqtros> balloons, Hi!
[16:49] <balloons> mrqtros, hello!
[16:49] <mrqtros> balloons, can you help me? :)
[16:49] <balloons> mrqtros, I can certainly try my best, what's up?
[16:49] <mrqtros> balloons, look please this merge request: https://code.launchpad.net/~mrqtros/ubuntu-rssreader-app/stable-trunk-prepare2/+merge/175731
[16:50] <mrqtros> balloons, we have errors, in some *.qml files we have something like that
[16:50] <mrqtros> import "feeds"
[16:50] <balloons> mm.. ok,
[16:50] <mrqtros> where "feeds" is a directory with *.qml files
[16:51] <mrqtros> But as you can see on server's side testing system can't find/create this folder
[16:51] <balloons> mrqtros, this is a big merge, I'll need a moment. So can I see what your talking about by running the testsa?
[16:53] <mrqtros> Sorry for big merge, it's our mistake :(
[16:54] <mrqtros> I think yes, first test failed: http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/generic-mediumtests/116
[16:57] <balloons> mrqtros, no worries.. ok, I'm branching your code now ;-)
[17:05] <balloons> mrqtros, hmm.. why am I getting conflicts :-(
[17:06] <mrqtros> Which? :)
[17:06] <balloons> I can't merge what you have to trunk at the moment
[17:06] <balloons> 9 conflicts encountered
[17:07] <balloons> mostly with the Article*.qml files
[17:08] <mrqtros> Hmm... trunk was changed since I've proposed merge
[17:09] <balloons> mrqtros, ahh.. can you rebase and then I'll pull again?
, what should I do? Get trunk, then merge with my stable-trunk-prepare2 and then push again?  Or there is simpler way? :)
[17:11] <mrqtros> I'am newbie in bzr :)
[17:12] <balloons> mrqtros, ahh yes.. I can resolve the conflicts perhaps but then I couldn't push the changes to your branch.. so, bzr update should rebase your branch
[17:12] <balloons> bzr update
[17:12] <balloons> resolve conflicts
[17:12] <balloons> bzr commit
[17:14] <mrqtros> bzr update in my branch says that nothing changed :(
[17:15] <balloons> mrqtros, well, hmm
[17:15] <balloons> does bzr pull do anything for you?
[17:15] <balloons> if not, you can checkout trunk, then issue a merge against your branch
[17:15] <mrqtros> w8 a moment
[17:16] <mrqtros> Yep, 9 conflicts :) w8, I'll check them
[17:17] <balloons> mrqtros, kk.. :-)
[17:21] <mrqtros> balloons, ok, I've  merged trunk with my version, committed it, what now? :)
[17:21] <balloons> now push it, and it will update.. so when I pull, I'll get no coflicts and we can fix the tests :-)
[17:22] <mrqtros> I should push in stable-bla-bla-bla branch? :)
[17:22] <mrqtros> to*
[17:22] <balloons> yes, push to your same branch ;-)
[17:22] <balloons> it'll just update the merge proposal, etc
[17:25] <mrqtros> balloons, ok, try now,
[17:25] <balloons> awesome, got it
[17:26] <balloons> mrqtros, ok, so I only see one test in here and it does run
[17:26] <balloons> it's just a placeholder test looks like
[17:28] <mrqtros> How can we trigger rebuild on merge request? :)
[17:28] <balloons> http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8080/job/ubuntu-rssreader-app-ci/12/
[17:30] <mrqtros> balloons, I think I have no rules to relaunch :)
[17:30] <balloons> mrqtros, hmm, let me give it a try
[17:30] <balloons> after every merge it should automatically retry anyway
[17:33] <mrqtros> Diff changed, but nothing happens :)
[17:38] <balloons> fginther, can you help us kick off a new build for https://code.launchpad.net/~mrqtros/ubuntu-rssreader-app/stable-trunk-prepare2/+merge/175731?
[17:42] <zedtux> Hi everyone, I'm developing an application for Ubuntu that include a kernle module. My project is (as of now) half open source and the kernel module is in the closed source part of the project. The application and its kernel module are working fine, but I'm now wondering about the way of publishing my app.
[17:44] <zedtux> If I have understood well the way to go, I have to upload a single archive containing the whole application. In my case I would like to provide different packages per kernel compiled modules.
[17:44] <zedtux> For example a package for kernel version 3.9 and another one for kernel version 3.10
[17:44] <zedtux> So how could I do that?
[17:49] <mrqtros> zedtux, I think this question is not actual now :) And nobody can't answer correctly yet ... Platform is under development as you know
[17:50] <balloons> zedtux, you do that by using the debian/control file and specifying dependencies
[17:50] <balloons> but imho you would need seperate packages.. someone else might be able to tell you more
[17:51] <zedtux> Thank @ballons for confirmation
[17:51] <zedtux> But then @mrqtros I'm not sure to follow you.
[17:51] <zedtux> Can you please give me more information ?
[17:52] <mrqtros> zedtux, I am core app developer, not from Canonical :)
[17:53] <zedtux> mrqtros, okay
[17:56] <zedtux> Let me give you more information, maybe you will understand better the sense of my question: As I would like to sell my application on the Ubuntu Software Center (to surf on the wave of the App stores ;)) then I'm wondering how to do that.
[17:56] <zedtux> For all the open source part, I did a PPA and it's fine.
[17:56] <mrqtros> zedtux, so I can only advice you :) And now my opinion is that you shall not rely on things, which can easily be changed in near future
[17:56] <zedtux> But for the part "To be sell" then I'm not sure how to proceed.
[17:56] <mrqtros> balloons, any news? :)
[17:57] <zedtux> mrqtros, alright understood.
[17:58] <balloons> zedtux, http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
[17:59] <balloons> mrqtros, it ran again
[17:59] <balloons> the toolbar test failed everything else passed.. So, I would gut the autopilot test completely
[17:59] <zedtux> balloons, thanks but I already had a look at everything from that link... Or I didn't understood.
[17:59] <balloons> edit the file and remove the test_toolbar_shows function
[18:00] <balloons> zedtux, well if you have something more specific mhall119 is the guy to talk to.
[18:01] <balloons> he can speak about it more clearly than I can
[18:01] <zedtux> balloons, "Please create a tarball of the source package" make me thinking that I have to provide 1 .tar.gz file but tomorrow a new version of kernel is available and I have to publish the compiled kernel module...
[18:01] <zedtux> ballons, thank you! I will contact him.
[18:01] <balloons> zedtux, well is the kernel changing that much each time you need a new package to support it?
[18:02] <balloons> that said ubuntu release tend to target a specific kernel
[18:03] <mrqtros> very specific app... Can you explain reasons? :)
[18:03] <balloons> mrqtros, did you see my note? make sense?
[18:04] <zedtux> balloons, to be honest I'm confuse right now. My kernel module contains some "LINUX_VERSION_CODE >= KERNEL_VERSION" for version 3.6, 3.7 and 3.9. I was expecting to just have to compile for those versions but giving some tries in VMs showed me that my kernel module compiled against the version 3.9 doesn't worked on kernel 3.10
[18:04] <balloons> mrqtros, basically the ap tests were failing because of the huge changes to rss reader and were more or less removed. I would just remove the last one as it is a placeholder anway
[18:04] <balloons> kernel 3.9 and 3.10 changed things
[18:04] <balloons> :-)
[18:04] <zedtux> with the error message "Exec format error"
[18:05] <zedtux> and in dmesg I had "disagrees about version of symbol module_layout".
[18:05] <mrqtros> balloons, ok, I'm awaiting now :)
[18:05] <zedtux> Using "modprobe --dump-modversions" I saw that addresses are completely different for many of the methods I'm using.
[18:05] <balloons> ok, you committed and pushed it?
[18:08] <mrqtros> balloons, sorry, I thought you want to remove it yourself :) W8 plz :)
[18:09] <balloons> mrqtros, I would, but I can't push to your branch :-)
[18:09] <balloons> mrqtros, anyways I think that will solve everything, so yay
[18:09] <fginther> balloons, rebuilidng
[18:09] <zedtux> balloons, my app is in 3 parts: the kernel module, a daemon and a config tool. The config tool is open source and in a PPA, what do you think if I publish the kernel module packages into the PPA (as closed source) but upload the daemon to the Ubuntu Software Center ?
[18:10] <zedtux> Then if a new kernel is released I just push to the PPA and that's it.
[18:10] <balloons> fginther, just a moment mrqtros has one more tiny commit to push.. but they should autoland after every commit right?
[18:10] <zedtux> For the daemon it's not changing so much.
[18:10] <fginther> balloons, yep, that would automatically kick off a new build
[18:10] <balloons> fginther, sorry I mean to say the bot should run after every commit
[18:10] <balloons> fginther, right, ty :-)
[18:11] <mrqtros> I should remove "test_toolbar_shows", yep?
[18:11] <balloons> zedtux, well I think you have many options, but you should start the process via the myapps submission
[18:11] <balloons> if you've started it, the review team can make specific recommendations
[18:11] <balloons> mrqtros, yes
[18:12] <zedtux> ballons, ok I will do so and cross fingers...
[18:13] <mrqtros> balloons, python ... And what if I'll remove one test-method? They are called via reflection? :) Or I should remove all usages too?
[18:14] <balloons> mrqtros, the goal is to remove all autopilot tests so everything will pass just fine
[18:14] <balloons> we'll fix and submit new ones in a seperate commit
[18:14] <mrqtros> Wow ... Ok :)
[18:14] <balloons> all the old ones changed and rather than fixing them, they got left to stagnate.. so for now, let's just gut them :-)
[18:15] <balloons> NORMALLY a commit shouldn't go in that would break them, but they've already been removed in trunk
[18:15] <balloons> may as well remove them in your branch too
[18:16] <mrqtros> How can I remove them? Remove methods? Classes? Files? :)
[18:17] <mrqtros> I am new in python and in autopilot test :)
[18:17] <mrqtros> So forgive me for dummy questions :)))
[18:18] <balloons> in test_rssreader.py in the tests directory under autopilot, remove the     def test_toolbar_shows(self) function
[18:24] <mrqtros> sec
[18:25] <mrqtros> ok now!
[18:32] <balloons> mrqtros,
[18:32] <balloons> mrqtros, awesome.. so fingers crossed the bot will like everything now
[18:32] <mrqtros> balloons, ahah, ok )))
[18:33] <mrqtros> Failure :(
[18:37] <mrqtros> "None of the test reports contained any result
[18:37] <mrqtros> "
[18:43] <balloons> mrqtros, :-( boo well then
[18:44] <balloons> fginther, can you do me one final favor and drop rss reader from running ap tests.. there are none left to run anyways
[18:44] <fginther> balloons, sure
[18:44] <balloons> mrqtros, this is the sledgehammer approach.. it'll definitely work now :-)
[18:45] <balloons> fginther, then kick off the autolanding for mrqtros so he can get his merge in ;-) ty ty ty!
[18:45] <mrqtros> balloons, :) Lol)))
[18:45] <avoine> Hello
[18:45] <avoine> I wanted to know if there is a way to enable the arm architecture in a ppa?
[18:46] <avoine> I'm trying to port the evopedia app on the ubuntu phone: https://code.launchpad.net/~patrick-hetu/+junk/evopedia-app
[18:46] <avoine> and I wanted to compile it without cross-compiling the whole qt5 stack
[18:58] <mrqtros> balloons, how can we trigger rebuild now? :)
[18:59] <balloons> mrqtros, fginther will trigger the rebuild once everything is ready to pass
[18:59] <mrqtros> Ok, thanks ;)
[19:10] <fginther> mrqtros, the jenkins jobs for ubuntu-rssreader-app have been updated, feel free to trigger that autolanding now by approving the merge proposal
[19:11] <balloons> mrqtros, ohh perfe
[19:12] <mrqtros> fginther, I approved :)
[19:14] <mrqtros> But seems that nothing happened
[19:42] <mrqtros> balloons, thanks! :)
[19:42] <mrqtros> It works now :)
[19:44] <balloons> mrqtros, excellent
[19:44] <balloons> I'm glad the rss changes are in, we can get back to writing some test for the new stuff :-)
[19:44] <mrqtros> balloons, thanks for your patience :)
[19:45] <balloons> same to you.. I know that was probably cubersome
[19:49] <mrqtros> balloons, next merge we will have no any problems? :)
[19:49] <balloons> mrqtros, yes, no problems
[19:56] <mrqtros> balloons, what a good new :) Now we will use short updates, I promise :)
[19:56] <balloons> mrqtros, :-) It makes it easier for everyone to review


[01:30] <manchicken> Hiya
[02:10] <manchicken> woot! digiKam is still building.
[02:34] <manchicken> I may need help committing to the kubuntu-packagers repo for digikam
[02:58] <manchicken> Darnit, "dh_install: cp -a debian/tmp/usr/lib/kde4/libexec" during build of digikam.
[03:23] <manchicken> If this build fails again I'm going to cry... it takes an hour to build each time...
[06:41] <valorie> manchicken: are you using ccache?
[06:41] <valorie> that helps
[06:41] <valorie> also, if you have more computers, you can use icecream server
[06:41] <valorie> distributed building
[07:17]  * sitter forgot to unpause ci yesterday ^^
[07:23] <soee> good morning
[08:30] <yofel> manchicken: you can also build with -nc, that won't re-compile anything and just continue from the failed target
[08:52] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:37] <Riddell> manchicken: debuild -nc  is your friend when doing incremental changes
[09:50] <Riddell> morning sitter my darling
[09:51] <sitter> oh my
[09:51] <sitter> Riddell: おはよう what can I do for you this fine morning ^^
[09:52] <Riddell> remind me of the state of these bloody backports is
[09:52] <Riddell> I see lots of bits in https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-backports/+packages
[09:54] <sitter> Riddell: plasma-frameworks-qt landed, sans user-manager/kcm-touchpad/bludevil/libbluedevil
[09:54] <sitter> those 4 are however in staging
[09:54] <sitter> so the former two can migrate to backports today
[09:54] <sitter> I am still not too sure about the bluetooth stuff
[09:56] <sitter> utopic pkg-kde-tools is not new enough for maxy's changes :'<
[09:58] <Riddell> ok groovy
[09:58] <Riddell> sitter: can I announce this on kubuntu.org or is more testing needed?
[10:05] <sitter> Riddell: should be good for announcement, although to my knowledge only I have tested it, so it kinda depends on whether you trust my system enough :P
[10:06] <Riddell> hmm, might be worth a virtualbox install
[10:19] <sitter> Riddell: do we want to spend time on kwin <IP_ADDRESS>?
[10:20]  * sitter actually wonders how it built for vivid considering it still has qt5.3 Oo
[10:20] <mgraesslin> sitter: it's a runtime problem
[10:20] <sitter> ah
[10:21] <sitter> clearly the solution here is mitya57 landing qt5.4 ;)
[10:21] <mgraesslin> you might need it for a PPA for 14.10 though
[10:21] <Riddell> sitter: not to backport, utopic backports have qt5.4 so no problem there
[10:21] <mgraesslin> (no idea whether you are going to provide it)
[10:21] <Riddell> and I already uploaded it for vivid
[10:22] <sitter> so I see
[10:22] <sitter> groovy
[10:22] <sitter> mgraesslin: PPAs all have 5.4, vivid only doesn't because .0 has some release blockers for canonical AFAIK
[10:22] <mgraesslin> interesting
[10:25] <mitya57> sitter: I can land it while Timo is on holidays and doesn't see it :)
[10:26] <sitter> no one will ever know xD
[10:27] <Riddell> mitya57: what is the setup with you and timo by the way? are you both employed/contracted by canonical for qt? I must confess I always get you mixed up because you both have nicks that start with "mi"
[10:28] <mitya57> no, only Timo is canonical employee
[10:29] <mitya57> But I do lots of Qt programming for work/university/fun
[10:34] <Riddell> qt can make programming fun, it's a rare thing that
[10:38] <sitter> Riddell: whatever happened to the new website? :(
[10:38] <Riddell> sitter: nobody got back to bukai and he's not come back on the channel
[10:38] <Riddell> it's a bit of a failure
[10:40] <soee> lets hope i can make it in time for vivid with promo site :~|
[10:41] <sitter> Riddell: I did not see a mail
[10:42] <Riddell> I think he only asked on the channel
[10:45] <sitter> well that's a mistake :P
[10:48] <sitter> vivid CI is burning again >.<
[10:51] <Riddell> burning? is that a good thing?
[10:53] <sitter> no
[10:54] <Riddell> oh
[10:54] <sitter> also we need to start integrating pkg-kde-tools, which means we need to support native packages :S
[10:55] <sitter> the one in utopic doesn't qualify for maxy's new ECM changes
[10:55] <Riddell> integrating pkg-kde-tools?
[10:55] <Riddell> backporting it?
[10:58] <sitter> Riddell: building it as part of CI, backporting manually won't fly
[10:58] <sitter> causes all sorts of madness
[10:58] <sitter> plus manual backports need to be manually updated and copied around, much hassle
[11:01] <Riddell> sitter: what new feature is needed?
[11:02] <Riddell> uh, plasma-nm has decided to fail on something in the code https://launchpadlibrarian.net/196018934/buildlog_ubuntu-vivid-amd64.plasma-nm_4%3A5.2.0-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[11:06] <sitter> Oo
[11:07] <sitter> Get:396 http://ftpmaster.internal/ubuntu/ vivid/universe libkf5networkmanagerqt-dev amd64 5.6.0-0ubuntu1 [35.9 kB]
[11:07] <sitter> Riddell: missing include?
[11:07] <sitter> it's odd that it would build in the ppa
[11:07] <sitter> ah
[11:08] <sitter> no, I don't get it ^^
[11:09] <sitter> Riddell: jgrulich did mention that we likely want networkmanager-qt fixes from 5.7 with the new NM
[11:09] <sitter> I see nothign immediately wrong with 5.6 though
[11:19] <Riddell> yep compiles fine locally
[11:27] <sitter> Riddell: with completely up-to-date system?
[11:27] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:30] <Riddell> sitter: yep, let me try enabling -proposed
[11:33] <Riddell> mm there's a new network-manager in proposed
[11:34] <sitter>  git stash poop                                                                                [±rewrite ●▴]
[11:34] <sitter> usage: git stash list [<options>]
[11:34] <sitter> typo of the day
[11:34] <sitter> Riddell: reckon that explains it then, I still don't know how a networkmanager could affect linkagery
[11:35] <sitter> oh unless certain classes are not built Oo
[11:35] <sitter> oh oh oh, I know, teamsetting surely only gets built in networkmanager-qt when built against the new NM
[11:35] <BluesKaj> oh no, not replacing NM ...it works so well as it is...hope the changes are just cosmetic
[11:35] <Riddell> cyphermox: what's new?
[11:35] <sitter> Riddell: so possibly a rebuild of networkmanager-qt would fix it
[11:36] <sitter> shadeslayer: fully tested version of logable http://quickgit.kde.org/?p=releaseme.git&a=blob&h=8f33674ff840384eee44da28035716de9f881dd4&hb=779edd71be0a0a7c19e7b15b62ce8cc8b8f95fb5&f=lib%2Flogable.rb
[11:40] <kfunk> could someone do me a favor and check if/why the subversion plugin is still not being shipped in Debian/Ubuntu packages? there were licensing issues but AFAIU these have been resolved long time ago -- see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322225#c5
[11:41] <kfunk> oh, that's just been fixed apparently: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=719202
[11:42] <kfunk> uh, s/just/a year ago/?
[11:43] <Riddell> sitter: installing utopic plasma 5 I can't do a simple full-upgrade to get plasma 5.2 installed :(
[11:45] <Riddell> kfunk: mm do you know where in kdevelop sources builds it?
[11:45] <kfunk> Riddell: it's in kdevplatform
[11:46] <kfunk> kdevplatform.git:plugins/subversion
[11:48] <sitter> Riddell: what seems to be the problem?
[11:49] <Riddell> kfunk: we do patch it out due to a patch from debian "Subject: Do not compile incompatible licensed SVN plugin"
[11:49] <Riddell> excludeSvnPluginFromCompilation.diff
[11:49] <kfunk> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=719202 contains "[ Andreas Cord-Landwehr ]
[11:49] <kfunk>    * Re-enable GPL-3+ licensed SVN plugin due to fixed license issue in
[11:49] <kfunk>      GPL-2+ licensed shared library kdevplatformoutputview (was GPL-2)
[11:49] <kfunk>      (Closes: #719202)"
[11:50] <kfunk> I'm confuzzled, so why is it still patched out?
[12:05] <Riddell> kfunk: gosh looks like it's out fault :(
[12:05] <Riddell> kfunk: the patch was kept during our latest merge even though debian had dropped it
[12:06] <kfunk>  /o\
[12:07] <Riddell> kfunk: how did you come across this? what do I need to fix?
[12:08] <kfunk> someone was updated the BKO bug
[12:08] <kfunk> updating*
[12:08] <kfunk> well, drop the patch patching out the subversion plugin if possible
[12:08] <kfunk> https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=contents&keywords=kdevsubversion.so&mode=exactfilename&suite=testing&arch=any
[12:08] <kfunk> indeed, Debian ships it
[12:12] <sgclark> morning
[12:13] <Riddell> hi sgclark
[12:17] <kfunk> Riddell: want me to create a bug report?
[12:18] <Riddell> kfunk: if you like, launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdevplatform
[12:21] <sitter> Riddell: releseme svn should be substantially less verbose now
[12:21] <sitter> still not quite like I want it to be but at least the walls of svn errors are gone
[12:21] <manchicken> Riddell: Any clue what's up with this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9916446/ ?
[12:21] <Riddell> rebuilding networkmanager-qt adds a load of new symbols
[12:21] <Riddell> which is a good thing I guess
[12:21] <sitter> yeah
[12:22] <kfunk> Riddell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdevplatform/+bug/1415451
[12:22] <Riddell> manchicken: one of the .install files will be listing usr/lib/kde4/libexec but that directory isn't made any more?
[12:22] <manchicken> That sounds like something I should remove then?
[12:23] <Riddell> manchicken: yes, this is normal when you have new versions, some files no longer exist and new ones exist
[12:23] <manchicken> Gotcha.
[12:23] <Riddell> manchicken: you'll need to remove from .install files anything that no longer exists then add in any new ones working out what package to put them into
[12:24] <Riddell> manchicken: run   dh_install --list-missing  to not have to go through the build all again
[12:24] <Riddell> manchicken: and run  debuild -nc  when you think it's all good to start the build again without doing a clear of compiled stuff
[12:24] <manchicken> The debian/patches/sendimages-icedove.diff patch is obsolete, now, it moved upstream.
[12:24] <Riddell> great, scrap it
[12:24] <Riddell> less patches the better
[12:25] <manchicken> Yeah, there's only the mysqld patch now.
[12:25]  * kfunk .oO(oh yeah, about the "less patches" thing)
[12:25] <Riddell> which hopefully you reformatted to fit in with the changes in the cmake file
[12:26] <manchicken> Yup.
[12:26] <manchicken> It builds and links, it's just the building of the deb which is failing right now.
[12:29] <Riddell> manchicken: remind me what timezone you're in you are in out of interest
[12:31] <manchicken> US-Eastern
[12:31] <manchicken> Moved to Fairfax, VA
[12:35] <manchicken> Do we want libkface to build? It seems like we should, it was previously in a .install file.
[12:35] <Riddell> manchicken: oh that's the question
[12:35] <manchicken> Something tells me I should not indiscriminently delete those.
[12:36] <Riddell> https://paste.kde.org/pypcuxoys
[12:36] <Riddell> manchicken: in previous versions it built by default
[12:36] <Riddell> now it seems not to
[12:36] <Riddell> ah wait, there's two libraries
[12:36] <Riddell> libkface was in digikam and has now been split out and released so just add a build-depends on libkface-dev
[12:36] <Riddell> and it should build
[12:37] <Riddell> libkgeomap seems to have been set to not build by default but has not had a separate releae
[12:37] <Riddell> so I think it should be patched to build it again
[12:37] <Riddell> such is the life of a packager, occational detective work needed
[12:38] <Riddell> you can reply to gilles for me if you want to confirm that
[12:40] <Riddell> sitter: ssh<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:41] <Riddell> sitter: apt full-upgrade wants to uninstall kubuntu-plasma5-desktop
[12:41] <Riddell> because it doesn't want to upgrade libkfilemetadata or something
[12:41] <Riddell> although it will if you ask it explicitly
[12:41] <Riddell> at which point plasma dies and you can't log back in
[12:43] <sitter> Riddell: which key did you use?
[12:43] <Riddell> sitter: key?#
[12:43] <sitter> ssh key
[12:43] <sitter> I have 300 of them
[12:43] <Riddell> sitter: whatever was on launchpad
[12:43] <Riddell> me@smith
[12:45] <sitter> byobu :@
[12:46] <Riddell> I'm watching you!
[12:46] <sitter> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9916697/
[12:46] <sitter> I thought you fixed that?
[12:46] <Riddell> I can't remember if I backported it
[12:47] <sitter> apparently not
[12:48] <Riddell> new plasma-nm and networkmanager-qt up
[12:48] <sitter> something depends on libkf5filemetadata2 :S
[12:48] <Riddell> sitter: noo! use emacs mode!  control-a should go to the beginning of the line!
[12:49] <sitter> !!!!
[12:49] <soee> who should i ask nicely to add latets kdetelepathy widgets to vivid ?
[12:50] <sitter> there must be a dodgy conflicts/breaks somewhere
[12:50] <sitter> otherwise that makes no sense
[12:50] <kfunk> Riddell: can't this be fixed for <15.04?
[12:50] <Riddell> kfunk: kdevelop? I'm doing it for 15.04 now and can do updates as needed
[12:51] <kfunk> awesome.
[12:51] <kfunk> would be nice if this could go down 14.04 at least
[12:51] <Riddell> soee: good question, I think there's no release of kdetelepathy for kf5 and I think telepathy-qt is needing an update which is blocked on canonical patches
[12:52] <soee> Riddell: i asked about in on #plasma and mck182 said tehy are ready but not released uet or something
[12:52] <soee> *yet
[12:53] <soee> so i thought they need only packaging
[12:53] <Riddell> released->telepathy-qt unblocked-> packaged
[12:53] <Riddell> but it could be done in a PPA by a keen young packager at least
[12:53] <soee> ;-)
[12:55] <sitter> ah ah
[12:55] <sitter> Riddell: kscreen is missing xD
[12:55] <sitter> I think I actually staged that yesterday though
[12:56] <sitter> kscreen, kcm-touchpad and user-manager moving to backports
[12:57] <Riddell> does that affect the full-upgrade ?
[13:01] <sitter> Riddell: rating wise I guess
[13:02] <sitter> the problem is that kfilemetadata&baloo tie heavily into plasma-workspace which wants libkscreen6, libkscreen5 is needed by kscreen though and kscreen is depended/recommended by p-w and probably also kubunty-plasma5-desktop giving it a higher rating
[13:02] <Riddell> ah I see
[13:02] <Riddell> worth a shot
[13:02] <sitter> apt output is always very cryptic, I never know what the numbers are so that is the best guess I have ^^
[13:04] <sitter> at any rate it has to do with dep tree balance since you basically have two complex resolution branches in the tree where one contains filemetadata and the other kscreen and one branch outweighs the other for various reasons so that's the branch apt would take to resolve the conflict
[13:04] <sitter> in upgrade mode it would probably just hold both branches
[13:05] <sitter> ah well, apparently not good enough yet
[13:17]  * sitter scratches head
[13:17] <sitter> Riddell: can you take a look the baloo control
[13:17] <sitter> Conflicts: baloo, baloo-kf5 (<= 4:4.97.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.10~ppa5)
[13:17] <sitter> Replaces: baloo-kf5 (<= 4:4.97.0-0ubuntu1~ubuntu14.10~ppa5)
[13:17] <sitter> unless I am missing something baloo-kf5 conflicts itself
[13:20] <sitter> Riddell: also, is blaoo not uploaded yet or have you not pushed the release commits?
[13:22] <sitter> proposed solution: http://paste.ubuntu.com/9917219/ <- baloo-kf5(5.6.0) conflicting itself(<=4:4.97) is a self-conflict due to to the poch; also the xapian thing there is just rubbish as we will at some point end up wiht soversion5...
[13:29] <sitter> Riddell: I uploaded a monkey patched backport to staging to see where that gets us
[13:35] <sitter> still didn't help
[13:42] <sitter> Riddell: I am a bit out of ideas, gotta take a coffee break
[13:53] <Riddell> pinging mvo
[14:00] <soee> Riddell: where should i report dolphin bugs ? there is a problem with places added to panel - sometimes are gone sometimes one will go back ... :)
[14:01] <cyphermox> hey Riddell ;)
[14:01] <Riddell> soee: I heard that one being discussed, it might be one that d_ed was looking at (or it might not)
[14:02] <soee> d_ed: ping
[14:03] <Riddell> but it's probably an issue with dolphin so bugs.kde.org, I think dolphin used to share that code with kdelibs but not any more
[14:03] <Riddell> cyphermox: looks like plasma-nm is building away now
[14:03] <cyphermox> ok good
[14:03] <Riddell> sitter: bit of a non-reply about telepathy-qt there :(
[14:04] <sitter> grab a revert hammer :P
[14:05] <cyphermox> Riddell: there's still a bunch of stuff to unblock before things will travel from the magical land of proposed into the real world, but I'm working on it
[14:08] <sitter> Riddell: I just realized, kfilemetadata-data uses conflicts where it should use breaks
[14:08] <sitter> given that conflicts is the highest priority negative relationship that might well be what breaks resolution
[14:08] <Riddell> sitter: oh?
[14:09] <d_ed> soee: ooh!
[14:09] <sitter> there's really only one case where conflicts is called for and that's when two packages cannot ever be installed at the same time
[14:09] <d_ed> do you know what you did that made the sidebar go away?
[14:09] <sitter> like ever, in no conceivable scenario
[14:09] <soee> d_ed: not sidebar, i just added shortcuts to few places liek Video, Images etc.
[14:09]  * sitter uploads a monkey fix for testing
[14:09] <soee> after logout or reboot they are gone often
[14:09] <soee> sometimes one will go back
[14:10] <soee> so in the end the default only stays available liek root folder, trash, network
[14:11] <sitter> Riddell: btw, I think the armhf builds on next-staging should go away
[14:11] <sitter> they are non-representitive and we don't care and Quintasan doesn't do anything with them either
[14:13] <Riddell> sitter: I agree, there was a guy who popped into the channel and asked for them but he's not come back
[14:16] <sitter> Riddell: I seem to recall it was Quintasan or maybe I am mistaken
[14:16] <sitter> anywho, the virtualized arm fails too often for frameworks
[14:16] <Riddell> yep, it's useless
[14:17] <Riddell> sitter: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/261339
[14:18] <sitter> still no luck with kfilemetadata
[14:19] <Riddell> sitter: I pinged mvo but no response yet
[14:20] <sitter> I suppose we could try moar debug xD
[14:20] <d_ed> soee: I need some extra hint on when they disappear
[14:20] <d_ed> I've added a folder and rebooted twice
[14:21] <sitter> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9918019/
[14:21] <sitter> :O
[14:22] <soee> d_ed: ill try to do some tests at home, but today im out till midnight, so tomorrow and ill contact you
[14:22] <d_ed> perfect
[14:22] <d_ed> thanks
[14:23] <sitter> kscreen also has a conflicts
[14:23] <sitter> oh my
[14:28] <soee> there is one package held back in vivid updates: libkwin4-effect-builtins1
[14:28] <sitter> Riddell: maybe we should just make a transitional package for kfilemetadata2
[14:28] <sitter> that way it shouldn't trip over it at all
[14:29] <Riddell> sitter: maybe, although it sounds improper and shouldn't be needed
[14:29] <sitter> well
[14:29] <sitter> the fact that data was in the lib also wasn't proper ;)
[14:30] <R33D3M33R> Hi, what is the 15.04 KF5 translation status? I upgraded from 14.10 to 15.04 and a lot of things that should be translated are not.
[14:31] <Riddell> R33D3M33R: it's on my todo list and I started on it but not finished yet
[14:31] <R33D3M33R> ah, ok, no problem then
[14:31] <Riddell> kf5 itself is all done, it's the kde applications that I need to update
[14:32] <soee> Riddell: P5.2 for utopic will be availabel through kubuntu-next ppa right ?
[14:33] <Riddell> soee: kubuntu-ppa/next-backports
[14:33] <Riddell> soee: it includes an update to qt so wedidn't want to make it magically avaialble without people adding it explicitly
[14:34] <Riddell> soee: it's already there if you feel the desire to test but we're working out why it won't do a smooth upgrade
[14:35] <sitter> here's a curious observation: if I manually want to install metadata3 it will do exactly the same as installing -data or removing data2, BUT it will also install qttranslations5-l10n
[14:36] <sitter> Riddell: did you backport the kio stuff yet?
[14:36] <sitter> it's annoying
[14:37] <soee> Riddell: i have not utopic installed but a lot of people is asking about it
[14:38] <Riddell> sitter: if I do kio I can't do kdevelop and the kfunk cries
[14:41] <sitter> this way I cry!
[14:42] <Riddell> yeah but crying kfunk is more scary than crying sitter
[14:43] <shadeslayer> are you saying sitter isn't scary enough
[14:43] <shadeslayer> Riddell: btw how was the calçot festival
[14:43] <yofel> that's debatable. Depends on how much wine you give him while he has to wait
[14:44] <Riddell> oh hi shadeslayer, the calcot festival was both wonderful and truly insane, I like onions but these people take it to whole new levels
[14:44] <sitter> Riddell: I really think we should just transition
[14:44] <shadeslayer> Riddell: define new levels
[14:44] <_Groo_> Riddell: shouldi move to next-backports? or stick with ci?
[14:44] <Riddell> shadeslayer: we also went on a street art tour of ravel, did you know there's game of thrones artwork 20m from your street?
[14:44] <Riddell> sitter: transition what?
[14:44] <_Groo_> Riddell: what i want to know is where are the 14.12 to utopic
[14:44] <shadeslayer> there's a what :O
[14:44] <shadeslayer> Riddell: where?
[14:44] <Riddell> _Groo_: depends on what you want to achieve
[14:45] <shadeslayer> which direction?
[14:45] <sitter> Riddell: add a translitional package from kfilemetada2 to kfilemetadata3&kfilemetadata-data
[14:45] <_Groo_> Riddell: well ci is the cutting edge right?so ill stick to that
[14:45] <_Groo_> Riddell: but ci doesnt have 14.12 apps correct?
[14:45] <Riddell> sitter: if you think that's sane and easiest sure
[14:45] <sitter> this is a giant waste of time
[14:46] <sitter> and given that all packages I look at use conflicts where they shouldn't use conflicts I am very content to assume that the problem is not in either baloo or filemetadata but some other thing that has a dodgy relationship
[14:46] <sitter> Riddell: what's to be backported for the kio thing?
[14:47] <Riddell> sitter: just kio-mtp no?
[14:47] <sitter> you tell me?
[14:47] <Riddell> sitter: just kio-mtp
[14:47] <_Groo_> Riddell: yes, kio-mtp is still broken with the new kio-extras
[14:48] <_Groo_> btw just buged the kde devs, to fixed bugs incoming
[14:48] <Riddell> _Groo_: in utopic or vivid?
[14:48] <_Groo_> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343455
[14:48] <_Groo_> utopic
[14:48] <_Groo_> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343450
[14:48] <_Groo_> this one is nasty
[14:48] <_Groo_> but they could reproduce it, and it should be fixed soon
[14:48] <sitter> Riddell: and why is baloo not marked released in git?
[14:50] <Riddell> sitter: where?
[14:50] <sitter> in git vivid_archive
[14:50] <sitter> in the changelog file
[14:50] <sitter> it says UNRELEASED
[14:50] <soee> teh utopic backports: [15:43] <alvin> baloo-kf5 libkf5filemetadata-bin plasma-desktop-data have been kept back.
[14:51] <yofel> we know
[14:53] <shadeslayer> hah, I can type € and £ now
[14:53] <shadeslayer> yay
[14:53] <shadeslayer> <3 the compose key
[14:54] <Riddell> shadeslayer: not ₹?
[14:54] <Riddell> sitter: script failure?
[14:54] <shadeslayer> hmm, not sure how that would work
[14:54] <sitter> Riddell: how shitty a script is that?
[14:54] <yofel> the script should not fail, and if it fails you shouldn't be ignoring that..
[14:55] <sitter> #humanfail
[14:55] <yofel> pebkac as usual ^^
[14:55] <sitter> Riddell: that kio-mtp solution seems very not right now
[14:56] <sitter> a) the translations catalogs of the kdelibs4 versionand the kf5 version don't need to be the same b) because of a the kf5 version should have a different catalog name upstream
[14:56] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I can do ₨
[14:57] <Riddell> shadeslayer: old school, all the cool currencies have symbols now
[15:06] <Riddell> kfunk: ok uploaded for 14.10 and 14.04.  It will need approval by ~ubuntu-sru then it'll need testing and verifying then 1 week later it can go into -updates.  ScottK ping on sru approval love for bug 1415451
[15:20] <sitter> the publisher delay :@
[15:21] <Riddell> sitter: the upload of qtwebkit ~ppa10 disappeared between next-staging and utopic-qt54, I've uploade dto utopic-qt54 again
[15:21] <Riddell> sitter: then I can look at qtquick
[15:22] <sitter> Riddell: you could have just copied
[15:23] <sitter> chances are it's not deleted for good in staging
[15:24] <sitter> interestingly enough they are all ppa1
[15:26] <sitter> qtquick1 is still missing...
[15:27] <Riddell> sitter: qtwebkit disappeared
[15:28] <sitter> it probably just wasn't copied
[15:29] <sitter> and wtf, it still wants to remove kio-mtp
[15:29] <sitter> well fml
[15:30] <sitter> -Replaces: kio-mtp (<< 0.75+git20140304-1ubuntu1)
[15:30] <sitter> -Breaks: kio-mtp (<< 0.75+git20140304-1ubuntu1)
[15:30] <sitter> +Replaces: kio-mtp (<< 0.75+git20140304-1ubuntu1~)
[15:30] <sitter> +Breaks: kio-mtp (<< 0.75+git20140304-1ubuntu1~)
[15:30] <sitter> see what I did there? :S
[15:30] <Riddell> clever
[15:34] <sitter> Riddell: baloo still not pushed in git
[15:34] <sitter> neither is filemetadata
[15:37] <yofel> my .xsession-errors is 16GiB @_@
[15:37] <Riddell> mm ok
[15:37] <sitter> because no one bothered to patch the intel driver
[15:38] <Riddell> yofel: libxext bug?
[15:38] <yofel> I'm on nvidia... "kwin_core: 0x20084: Texture state usage warning: Waste of memory: Texture 0 has mipmaps, while its min filter is inconsistent with mipmaps."
[15:38] <Riddell> https://launchpad.net/bugs/1400730
[15:38] <Riddell> sitter: kfilemetadata and baloo pushed
[15:39] <yofel> nah, none of the libext stuff, but that kwin warning around 10x per second
[15:41] <yofel> let me try to install 5.2 and reboot. Maybe that'll help
[15:49] <yofel> vivid doesn't like kwin currently:
[15:49] <yofel> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[15:49] <yofel>   kubuntu-desktop kwin kwin-data libkwin4-effect-builtins1 libkwinglutils5 libmuonprivate2 libqapt2-runtime muon-installer
[15:50] <sitter> publisher hell
[15:50] <sitter> Riddell: filemetadata and kio-extras should be publishing in backports at some point
[15:50] <sitter> if it's still broken simply add a transitional package to metadata and the upgrade should be fine
[15:50] <yofel> nah, I can upgrade it fine if I run "apt install kubuntu-desktop kwin"
[15:50] <sitter> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9919272/
[15:51] <sitter> ^ transitional package diff
[15:51]  * sitter out
[15:51] <Riddell> yofel: plasma-desktop still to get into -release maybe that'll make things happier
[15:52] <yofel> ah, maybe
[15:55] <yofel> *sigh*, it would be kind of nice if at least the session management would survive a plasma update so you don't need a terminal to reboot the system -.-
[15:59] <Riddell> sweet, sitter's fixed work for utopic full-upgrade
[15:59] <Riddell> !testers | kubuntu plasma 5 backports
[15:59] <Riddell> in ~kubuntu-ppa/next-backports
[16:00] <sgclark> don't have a utopic build anywhere :(
[16:00] <BluesKaj> Riddell, I take it this is for 14.10
[16:01] <yofel> great, upgraded to 5.2 and now my font settings are messed up o.O
[16:01] <BluesKaj> err assume in other words
[16:01] <yofel> either the rendering changed or something is overriding the hinting setting
[16:03] <yofel> and something deleted my xorg.conf again, this is getting annoying
[16:04] <Riddell> BluesKaj: yep
[16:05] <sgclark> Riddell: any packages without time constraints for me to work on to get back into the swing of things?
[16:05] <Riddell> sgclark: kde applications includes some updates that are not versioned 14.12
[16:06] <Riddell> sgclark: kdepim* http://download.kde.org/stable/applications/14.12.1/src/
[16:07] <BluesKaj> I'm still waiting for more graphical options for plasma 5 like themes and VD backgrounds that can be set individually and widgets that we used to have in plasma 4 that I liked like the icon only taskbar etc...but there doesn't seem to be much attention being paid to these effects
[16:07] <sgclark> Riddell: not sure what you are asking me to do
[16:07] <Riddell> sgclark: package the updates of the kdepim* packages
[16:07] <sgclark> Are they suppose to be 14.12 or ?
[16:07] <Riddell> sgclark: no they're bugfixes only so they keep their 4.x versions
[16:08] <Riddell> sgclark: and they didn't get an update when we did 14.12
[16:08] <sgclark> kk, Riddell: on it!
[16:08] <Riddell> sgclark: so I guess they're still in launchpad bzr and should get moved to debian git for packaging
[16:08] <sgclark> right, they are still doing the kf5 port
[16:08] <sgclark> hmm
[16:09] <sgclark> not sure I remember how to do that if I ever did
[16:09] <Riddell> sgclark: make a new git repository on the debian server, mirror the old one into it, I think
[16:10]  * sgclark has no idea how to mirror things in git
[16:11] <yofel> create a new repo on git.debian.org, pull from the old remote location, push to the new one
[16:11] <sgclark> do like we did when we created applications from 4.x ? cp from debian to new repo?
[16:12] <sgclark> yofel: ok got that, thanks!
[16:13] <yofel> IIRC at least. With just copying you had to update the CI stuff by hand
[16:14] <yofel> meh, plasma-workspace shows up as published on launchpad but actually isn't :S
[16:16] <Riddell> published is only an internet archive mirror I think, something it still needs something else to run to reach the archive.ubuntu.com mirror, and then other mirrors will take longer
[16:17] <yofel> right, it's in no pocket on archive.ubuntu.com, which can happen but is annoying when it does :/
[16:18] <yofel> ok, fixed my hinting
[16:27] <yofel> hm, plasma doesn't try to fix the favorite entries in kickoff if the desktop file locations change
[16:29] <yofel> on second thought, that's probably right
[18:18] <shadeslayer> tar sure has consistently shit formatted code
[20:02] <Riddell> yay utopic backports working for me and vqez, I'll announce
[20:08] <Riddell> http://www.kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5.2 ta da
[20:11] <genii> heh
[20:11]  * Riddell out
[20:27] <mparillo> Plasma 5.2 is available on the development release and 14.10 in the first paragraph and 14.04 LTS in the PPA section. All three?
[22:59] <HmpfCBR> hi, I think there are one or two errors in the annoncement http://www.kubuntu.org/news/plasma-5.2 to the end it mentions 14.04LTS and the two commands add different ppas. Or do I missunderstand it?
[23:03] <claydoh> Oh, there is a mistake in there, for sure.  the top line is the correct one, there is noe plasma 5 for 14.04
[23:04] <claydoh> it also implies that you have to get 5.2  for Vivid via a ppa as well, which I think is incorrect
[23:04] <claydoh> Riddell:  ^^^ or someone who can edit the announcement
[23:45] <valorie> Riddell: yofel, sgclark, shadeslayer, sitter ^^^
[23:46] <shadeslayer> hmm
[23:46] <shadeslayer> let me see
[23:46] <valorie> that needs to be fixed or #kubuntu will start to 'splode
[23:47] <sgclark> hmm yes that would end badly
[23:47] <sgclark> me thinks a copy paste gone bad
[23:47] <yofel> right, that post is only half-edited..
[23:47] <yofel> shadeslayer: you fixing it?
[23:48] <shadeslayer> I'm trying to find how one fixes that
[23:48] <shadeslayer> :P
[23:48] <shadeslayer> because I don't remember
[23:48] <yofel> use le konqueror
[23:48] <sgclark> have to use konq.. yeah
[23:48] <shadeslayer> don't have 90's tech
[23:49] <yofel> ah, I'm in
[23:49] <sgclark> woot
[23:49] <yofel> let me fix the worst at least
[23:49] <shadeslayer> yay
[23:50] <valorie> woooo, thank you
[23:50] <valorie> sorry for the pingall, but I have not clue who has keys
[23:51] <shadeslayer> the entire process of using 90's tech to fix news announcements is brainfuck
[23:51] <yofel> done, someone please recheck that
[23:54] <valorie> looks correct to me, yofel
[23:55] <yofel> k
[23:55] <valorie> and the command works; I just added the repo successfully
[23:55] <valorie> will test the upgrade in a bit
[23:57] <yofel> I'm off, if you find issues best ping harald so he can fix things tomorrow


[12:51] <xyzluki> Hello. My ubuntu 20.04 LTS failed on apt-get update command. I don' know why. Here is the error which I got: https://dpaste.com/FMHHNP659
[13:01] <Emelie[m]> xyzluki: That host is reachable for me, could you try running the same command again? Maybe it was just a hickup
[13:02] <Emelie[m]> If not, I would guess there's something up with your network. Are you behind a corporate firewall or something, maybe?
[13:06] <xyzluki> I am trying again apt-get update
[13:07] <xyzluki> I got the same error
[13:09] <xyzluki> I am using my home network. My pc is using wire connection. It is connected directly to ISP infrastructure present i my apartment building
[13:09] <xyzluki> at home I don't have any router
[13:12] <xyzluki> I am bale to ping us.archive.ubuntu.com and archive.ubuntu.com
[13:13] <xyzluki> but I can't access from web browser above sites.The interesting thing is that I can access https://pl.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ from web browser
[14:10] <xyzluki> In the meanwhile, I asked my ISP if everythng is ok on their side. I am waiting for the feedback
[14:23] <Spads> can you try `mtr --report -T -P 80 us.archive.ubuntu.com`?
[14:24] <Spads> pl.archive is a community mirror while us.archive is our own infrastructure
[14:24] <Spads> but we've had some routing shenanigans in the past, so this could be a number of things.
[14:25] <Spads> Have you isolated IPv4 and IPv6?
[14:25] <Spads> Your error shows v4 addresses...
[15:09] <xyzluki> Can I paste output from mtr here ?
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> best to use pastebins for larger text output xyzluki
[15:10] <xyzluki> oki, sure
[15:10] <xyzluki> https://dpaste.com/2W9V9HCL8
[15:11] <Berge> xyzluki: Can you add -n to mtr and run it again?
[15:11] <xyzluki> yes, sure
[15:13] <xyzluki> https://dpaste.com/BUGB4VCC2
[15:14] <Berge> xyzluki: Looks like you don't have IPv4 connectivity at all
[15:14] <xyzluki> it looks really strange
[15:15] <Spads> Can you try it with -6 added?
[15:15] <ravage> can you ping <IP_ADDRESS> ? just to check your general ipv4 connectivity
[15:15] <xyzluki> other websites works ok like. ubuntu.com, dpaste.com
[15:15] <Berge> xyzluki: ubuntu.com works with mtr?
[15:15] <Spads> dpaste thinks I'm spamming.  Can you use pastebin.ubuntu.com?
[15:16] <xyzluki> ping <IP_ADDRESS> works well
[15:16] <Spads> Our hostnames will have both A and AAAA records, so if you have ipv6 connectivity but not 4, that should work.  Not sure what apt is doing
[15:16] <Berge> xyzluki: What does "host us.archive.ubuntu.com" say?
[15:17] <xyzluki> mtr --report -n -T -P 80 ubuntu.com looks the same as for us.archive.ubuntu.com
[15:18] <xyzluki> https://dpaste.com/4HC7FEST8
[15:19] <xyzluki> above link is the output from host us.archive.ubuntu.com
[15:19] <tomreyn> Spads: can you share a screenshot of the dpaste message? we are testing dpaste.com for #ubuntu support, but this sounds not ideal.
[15:20] <ravage> xyzluki, and you can also ping 2001:67c:1562::15 ?
[15:20] <Spads> tomreyn: it just has the text "You have exceeded our rate limit of 1 request per second. Please pause at least 1 seconds between requests. Full terms: http://bit.ly/dpaste-tos"
[15:20] <Spads> I haven't done more than one request every five minutes, tops
[15:20] <ravage> i know that apt can have some problems if your system thinks it has ipv6 but actually doesnt
[15:21] <tomreyn> Spads: i assume 'your' egress ip address has, though, if you're on canonical vpn?
[15:21] <xyzluki> as Spads asked earlier. mtr with -6:mtr --report -6 -n -T -P 80 us.archive.ubuntu.com shows message: mtr: udp socket connect failed: Network is unreachable
[15:22] <ravage> xyzluki, try if "sudo apt-get -o Acquire::ForceIPv4=true update" works for you
[15:22] <Berge> xyzluki: curl -v us.archive.ubuntu.com
[15:22] <Berge> (In a pastebin)
[15:23] <xyzluki> ping 2001:67c:1562::15 shows ping: connect: Network is unreachable
[15:23] <Spads> This really seems like a client network problem rather than something on our end, but if this assessment changes, just highlight me and I'll take another look.
[15:24] <xyzluki> sudo apt-get -o Acquire::ForceIPv4=true update exits with teh same error as normal sudo apt-get update
[15:25] <ravage> this really looks like a problem with your home network
[15:26] <ravage> but as we are talking already: is it recommended to enable https on the archive mirrors? i just never thought of it. just saw some that have it
[15:28] <xyzluki> I will check Berge idea: https://pastebin.com/EjvCMmNJ
[15:29] <xyzluki> curl also reports problem with connection refused error
[15:29] <tumbleweed> xyzluki: try (and pastebin) tcptraceroute us.archive.ubuntu.com 80
[15:29] <tumbleweed> (you'll probably need to install it, though...)
[15:30] <Spads> ravage: It provides no benefit as the archive is known data, and it puts overhead in that would make certificates impossible to manage.  And apt doesn't need it anyway as it checks actual signatures on payloads.
[15:33] <xyzluki> ehhh, even I am not able to manually download tcptraceroute package
[15:33] <tomreyn> ravage: there are different POVs on this topic, you will find lengthy discussions on debian mailing lists, i assume.
[15:34] <tomreyn> (and different arguments, too)
[15:34] <ravage> there must be an official position on it? i enabled it for my mirror as an option now. does not hurt
[15:34] <tomreyn> i assume Spads provided the official position
[15:35] <ravage> k
[15:35] <tumbleweed> xyzluki: ok, the point there would just be to see if the "connection refused" was coming from somewhere unexpected. But with that 42089 ms, it's probably a timeout, so not useful
[15:36] <xyzluki> btw. I am trying to download tcptraceroute from https://packages.ubuntu.com/focal/amd64/tcptraceroute/download, but there I have a problem with access to servers
[15:37] <xyzluki> thank you guys for help. I assume that my ISP will find what is wrong, because I didn't change any settings on my pc
[15:38] <ravage> rebooting all your devices may help actually. give it a try.
[15:40] <xyzluki> ravage, I am fighting with apt-get from sunday. My pc was rebooted few times from that time
[15:41] <ravage> and your router?
[15:41] <xyzluki> at home I don't have router
[15:41] <xyzluki> my pc is connected directly to ISP device for which I don't have physical access
[15:42] <xyzluki> it is closed in the box on staircase
[15:46] <Spads> tomreyn: I don't know what degree of officialdom it has, but let's just say that we won't be handing out TLS certs for $COUNTRYCODE.archive.ubuntu.com so it's hard to see a benefit
[15:46] <Spads> I mean turn it on if you like, really.  But we're unlikely to require it or provide infra to support it any time soon.
[15:52] <tomreyn> Spads: It is certainly challenging to both design and maintain an architecture which can handle all the issues around community maintained HTTPS mirrors properly. And there is the trust / false trust issue, too. I understand so much. I also think that it was a good choice by debian to move to https by default.
[15:52] <tomreyn> (and i think it would be a good chooice for ubuntu, too. but i'm just another user.)
[16:00] <xyzluki> I hope that my ISP will find why access to ubuntu servres doesn't work
[16:00] <xyzluki> At this moment thanks again for help and see you :)
[16:01] <ravage> good luck with your ISP :)
[16:01] <xyzluki> I hope so :)


[12:40] <akxwi-dave> milamber
[12:41] <akxwi-dave> is what Pug was called on kelewan
[12:42] <akxwi-dave> damn dual screen annoyances.. sorry guys wrong window..
[16:40] <flocculant> knew that anyway :p
[20:15] <ochosi> bluesabre: so both problems, the flickery scrolling in the panel, and the broken scrolling in xfce4-settings-manager with plugs go away with "GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1". i'm wondering if we should push this to x-d-s in 18.10...
[20:34] <brainwash> ochosi: shouldn't that be set for all Xfce?
[20:34] <ochosi> well for the complete session at least i guess...
[20:35] <brainwash> I meant for xubuntu and non xubuntu (but xfce) users
[20:36] <brainwash> in xfce4-settings maybe?
[20:41] <ochosi> not sure
[20:42] <ochosi> but possibly yes
[20:42] <ochosi> i consider this a workaround for our lack of xi2 handling (as i said, not even sure what's needed there, maybe we just need to properly resolve all deprecations)
[21:02] <brainwash> ochosi: would it fix bug 1799255?
[21:03] <brainwash> reported by a Ubuntu Studio user
[21:24] <bluesabre> ochosi: oh wow, yeah, sounds like a 18.10 sru to me
[21:28] <bluesabre> ochosi: I wonder if that causes any bad side effects
[21:29] <ochosi> bluesabre: well the one side effect i would expect is some xinput2 features missing
[21:29] <ochosi> so multitouch and stuff
[21:30] <ochosi> potentially we could also just set the env vars for the panel and settings manager specifically
[21:30] <ochosi> to avoid any potential negative side effects anywhere else
[21:30] <bluesabre> That makes sense
[21:30] <ochosi> but tbh xfce was mostly gtk2 until recently
[21:30] <ochosi> so no xinput2 support anyway...
[21:30] <ochosi> so i generally have two hypotheses:
[21:31] <ochosi> 1) we need to handle xinput2 somehow in our code. (no idea what that would be though)
[21:31] <ochosi> 2) we don't need to handle xinput2 in our code, but we need to resolve all gdkdevice deprecations so it will work properly.
[21:31] <ochosi> i guess we can start with 2) and investigate 1) in parallel
[21:31] <ochosi> it's quite possible that it's a combination also
[21:32] <bluesabre> Sounds reasonable. At least for the embedded plugs, seems like a breakage in general for plugs
[21:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: fwiw, we already enforce that env var in lightdm-gtk-greeter too...
[21:50] <bluesabre> So I see. I wonder if we just need to the it into the affected apps and call it a day
[22:31] <ochosi> bluesabre: for now i would say it's a good start...
[22:55] <Unit193> Oh hah!  That's why I'd never see it, I have that var set in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/99unit193 ;P
[23:12] <ochosi> Unit193: haha, sneaky!
[23:14] <Unit193> ochosi: Do you know offhand how to disable smooth scrolling, btw?
[23:23] <ochosi> nope, would have to google too
[23:24] <Unit193> All I'm finding is to turn off animations, which already are. :P


[22:30] <mup> Issue operator#1007 opened: Run Pyright on test files to catch typing issues <type hints> <Created by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1007>
[23:55] <mup> PR operator#1012 opened: test: add type hinting to test_lib <type hints> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1012>


[15:05] <ikonia> I've just updated my wiki page to contain a little more current detail and a better formatting. All the headings sections have come out fine, bar one section, I have a = heading = then a == sub heading == then 3 [15:07] <ikonia> Scratch that, it's working now
[15:07] <ikonia> save conflict