[12:11] <infinity> Mithrandir: The jabber thing?  Why does my vector graphics editor want a jabber interface?
[12:11] <Kano> dpkg-divert --list|grep kside.png|cut -f7 -d' '
[12:11] <Kano> ok, sowas auch noch...
[12:12] <Burgwork> infinity: it uses jabber to do collaboration
[12:12] <_ion> It would be cooler if it used telepathy instead of loudmouth directly.
[12:12] <Burgwork> telepathy didn't exist when the inkscape people started inkboard
[12:13] <Mithrandir> infinity: sharing is good
[12:14] <Mithrandir> keescook: you just won the contest on who gets to write a MIR for loudmouth.  Or make inkscape not depend on loudmouth.
[12:14] <Robot101> they should go back and fix it :D
[12:14] <keescook> Mithrandir: yahoo
[12:14] <Robot101> telepathy-gabble needs a MIR for loudmouth anyway
[12:15] <Burgwork> Robot101: what about non-Linux builds?
[12:15] <keescook> Mithrandir: actually, I think they were thinking of not using loudmouth any more.  (some other lib instead?  I'll need to go check with them.)
[12:15] <Mithrandir> Robot101: telepathy-gabble | 0.4.5-0ubuntu1 | feisty/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[12:15] <Robot101> Mithrandir: feisty's meant to get some telepathy loving in main
[12:16] <Mithrandir> Robot101: yeah, but it doesn't need the MIR atm.
[12:16] <keescook> wait, I can't write the MIR if I do the audit too, can I?  :)
[12:16] <infinity> keescook: Sure you can, an MIR is a statement of fact, not opinion.
[12:16] <infinity> (In theory)
[12:17] <keescook> infinity: ah, okay.  fair enough.  :)
[12:17] <Mithrandir> keescook: nice try, though
[12:17] <Kano> why had ubuntu a /etc/debian_version file?
[12:17] <Kano> has
[12:17] <infinity> Kano: So 3rd party apps/scripts that look for it don't freak out.
[12:17] <infinity> Kano: (Many look for it to see if the system is "debianish", then take decisions based on that)
[12:18] <Kano> i is 100 sure that that file is on every ubuntu or just edgy
[12:18] <Mithrandir> Kano: it's on all ubuntu version released.
[12:18] <infinity> (And always reads "testing/unstable")
[12:19] <Mithrandir> lamont: should we disable cdb support in postfix or get tinycdb into main?
[12:20] <Kano> infinity: ok, i checked for lsb-relase for ubuntu usually
[12:20] <infinity> Kano: Yes, as do I.
[12:21] <Kano> i miss awk on ubuntu and bash ;)
[12:21] <infinity> Err, they're both there.
[12:21] <Kano> sure but not preinstalled
[12:21] <infinity> bash is Essential:yes, and mawk is Priority:required.
[12:21] <Mithrandir> err, they are
[12:21] <infinity> So, yes, preinstalled.
[12:21] <Kano> so i had to fix serveral things
[12:22] <infinity> You'd have a deeply upset system without them, I suspect.
[12:22] <Kano> like the ati-installer uses echo -e, == and pushd/popd
[12:23] <Kano> you have to patch that out first to use it
[12:23] <Mithrandir> it probably assumes that /bin/sh is bash
[12:23] <Kano> thats it
[12:23] <infinity> Kano: The ATI installer needs to be fixed to be !/bin/bash
[12:23] <infinity> Kano: Tell upstream.
[12:23] <Kano> i did
[12:23] <infinity> (Or run it as "bash ati...run")
[12:23] <Kano> and i wrote my own installer
[12:24] <Kano> infinity: not that esay
[12:24] <infinity> Sure it is.
[12:24] <Kano> nope
[12:24] <sivang> giskard: ping
[12:26] <sivang> giskard: actually unpind, will talk to you tomorrow
[12:26] <sivang> night all
[12:26] <pygi> night sivang
[12:29] <Kano> [ "$(readlink /bin/sh)" = "dash" ]  && sed -i 's/==/=/;s/pushd/cd/;s/popd//;s/echo\s\+-e/printf "%b\n"/' packages/Ubuntu/ati-packager.sh
[12:29] <Kano> that was needed
[12:29] <Kano> otherwise no packages are created
[12:29] <Kano> when you use --buildpkg Ubuntu/edgy
[12:30] <Kano> i just finished changes for nvidia+fglrx
[12:30] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/install-fglrx-debian.sh
[12:30] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/install-nvidia-debian.sh
[12:30] <Kano> if someone finds problems let me know
[12:30] <Kano> i am usually on that server just not that channel
[12:32] <Kano> bye
[12:34] <madduck> fabbione: lovely commit message. maybe you could mention or point to the Debian bug it refers to? Or is this a problem I don't know yet?
[12:34] <_ion> How about this for a problem? The nvidia script seems to throw files around the filesystem without dpkg knowing about it.
[12:34] <fabbione> madduck: oh i just wanted to show you the diff
[12:34] <fabbione> madduck: one sec that i need to re-deb-diff it
[12:34] <fabbione> it's one line change
[12:35] <fabbione> madduck: and i didn't check debian bts
[12:35] <fabbione> so i don't know if there is a bug open for it
[12:35] <fabbione> people here almost larted me for breaking their upgrades
[12:35] <madduck> can i see the diff?
[12:35] <fabbione> madduck: yes.. one sec please
 madduck: one sec that i need to re-deb-diff it'
[12:35] <madduck> sorry. :)
[12:36] <fabbione> madduck: see /msg
[12:37] <fabbione> basically i see no point to fail if we have no configured raids
[12:37] <fabbione> it might be normal
[12:38] <fabbione> madduck: i also found other upgrading issues from 2.4.* to 2.5
[12:38] <fabbione> madduck: but i can't really debug it so far from the machine
[12:38] <Mithrandir> seb128: libnet-dbus-perl which system-tools-backends now needs a whole stack of new modules (libxml-twig-perl, libxml-xpath-perl, libunicode-map8-perl, libxml-handler-yawriter-perl, libxml-sax-machines-perl); any idea what we should do about that?
[12:39] <seb128> Mithrandir: get them to main?
[12:39] <Mithrandir> seb128: sure, just get me approved MIR. :-)
[12:40] <seb128> Mithrandir: I know the right guy to get those :p
[12:40] <Mithrandir> ah, he's around now.  He wasn't earlier.
[12:40] <Mithrandir> enjoy. :-)
[12:40] <orkid> to upgrade to feisty, just change the repos (and use update-manager?)
[12:41] <seb128> yep
[12:41] <seb128> not sure if that's a good idea to update yet though
[12:42] <orkid> i realize it's near the beginning of development.
[12:42] <madduck> fabbione: please just tell me what the problems are. i know where to look quite well by now, having involuntarily maintained it for 4 months.
[12:42] <orkid> tx
[12:44] <fabbione> madduck: dude.. i can't reboot or downgrade that machine from where i am... i was confident that it was going to be ok and upgraded. so when i am back next week i will be able to tell you more
[12:44] <Kano> another thing: why is module-assistant not in main?
[12:44] <Kano> it is very usefull
[12:44] <pygi> Kano: you cant go around saying why random FOO isn't in Main? :P
[12:44] <Kano> thats a major tool
[12:44] <Mithrandir> Kano: no, it's not.
[12:45] <Mithrandir> we ship precompiled kernel modules instead.
[12:45] <Kano> you need m-a prepare to be able to compile modules
[12:45] <Mithrandir> no, you don't
[12:45] <madduck> fabbione: sorry, i am not trying to be pushy. i am just surprised. caught off guard.
[12:45] <Kano> at least thats the most easy way
[12:45] <fabbione> madduck: don't worry.. i need to look at it because it's scary message and i was surprised too. I just can't do anything here. I don't have test equipment to play with
[12:46] <Mithrandir> Kano: that's irrelevant as long as the user never needs to compile modules by hand.
[12:46] <keescook> hmpf.  Inkscape 0.45 won't be using libloudmouth.  :P
[12:46] <Kano> sure and you only provide one version of fglrx and nvidia drivers (ok+ legacy) in your rep.
[12:47] <infinity> Kano: And we should provide more than that, why?
[12:47] <Kano> infinity: because nvidia needs 2 legacy drivers soon for example and you need one legacy (8.28.8) and latest to support all ati chips
[12:47] <infinity> Kano: Catering to the ricer crowd who looks for the sweet spot to get an extra 3fps out of a specific video game isn't really our deal. :)
[12:48] <infinity> Kano: The fglrx legacy issue is a non-issue, IMO, as the cards they dropped have free 3D support.
[12:48] <infinity> Kano: As for the nvidia "need 2 legacy drivers soon" thing, do you have a reference for me to look at?
[12:48] <infinity> (I admit, I've not been reading such news in the last couple of weeks)
[12:49] <infinity> Kano: I'll only maintain an fglrx legacy package if upstream does.  They've not committed to doing so (like nvidia did), they just dropped support.
[12:49] <Kano> infinity: 96xx series will be the legacy driver for gefore 2mx till gf4200, so basically every dx7/8 card which is not already a legacy one
[12:49] <infinity> Kano: Distributing a binary blob to users with no promise of updates/support is not high on my list of "bright things to do".
[12:50] <Kano> infinity: well i do that always with a script
[12:50] <Kano> for kanotix
[12:50] <Kano> which supports ubuntu now too
[12:50] <infinity> Err, and your script magically fixes security holes in old fglrx releases? :)
[12:50] <Mithrandir> Kano: good for you, then.  We won't.
[12:50] <infinity> I'm not talking baout my maintenance overhead, I'm talking about us not shipping obsolete and unsupprted code.
[12:51] <TheK> Kano, does this driver really WORK usefull with such old chips? there are several comments about problems with GF3
[12:51] <Kano> TheK: 9626 works
[12:51] <Kano> which is needed for composite
[12:52] <Kano> install-nvidia-debian.sh -c
[12:52] <Kano> -c is for composite
[12:52] <TheK> and they cut now above 4200? strange position.. I guess, MX4000 still supported? ;)
[12:53] <Kano> 9742 has no support for those cards
[12:54] <Kano> butthat driver is needed for geforce 8800 series
[12:55] <TheK> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-9742/README/appendix-a.html that file still lists all? lol?
[12:55] <Kano> TheK: the readme is incorrect
[12:55] <TheK> :(
[12:56] <Kano> this driver needs 5200 and above
[12:56] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you or some other kubuntu person probably wants to write a MIR for gsmlib
[12:57] <infinity> 9742 is still listed as a beta driver.  NVIDIA quite frequently limits the PCI ID list on beta drivers.
[12:57] <Kano> TheK: you can try it
[12:57] <Kano> mount --bind /bin/bash
[12:57] <infinity> I'm quite convinced they don't intend to maintain 3 branches of the driver.  2 is bad enough.
[12:57] <Kano> ./install-nvidia-debian.sh -cv 9742
[12:57] <Kano> umount /bin/bash
[12:57] <Riddell> Mithrandir: aye
[12:57] <TheK> Kano, to lazy to boot my system with gf2mx ;)
[12:57] <Kano> mount --bind /bin/bash /bin/sh
[12:57] <Kano> of course
[12:57] <Kano> TheK: you will get no screen..
[12:58] <infinity> Kano: Why on earth are you using mount to do that?
[12:58] <infinity> Kano: That's vile.
[12:58] <Kano> when you use -c then you get composite suport
[12:58] <Kano> infinity: no need for a symlink
[12:58] <infinity> Kano: "bash <script-that-needs-it>"
[12:58] <TheK> infinity, on Windows the 97xx-Series is for 8800 ONLY
[12:58] <TheK> afaik it doesn't even support GF7 there...
[12:58] <Kano> infinity: i dont like to do that, it is not my script that needs bash, it is the nvidia-isntaller in it. i dont like to change that for this beta
[12:59] <infinity> TheK: For now, yes.  That happens on most new product releases.
[12:59] <Mithrandir> Kano: I fail to see how this conversation is relevant to Ubuntu development, so maybe you should take it elsewhere.
[12:59] <infinity> Kano: So call the installer with bash from inside your script.
[12:59] <Kano> well you should know how many nvidia packages you need ;)
[01:00] <Kano> infinity: does not work, it is inside a script inside, would have to patch that
[01:00] <TheK> one day we have nvidia-glx-gf1, -gf2, -gf3, -gf4.. and so on? ;)
[01:00] <infinity> TheK: No, we'll drop support for older cards when upstream does.
[01:01] <infinity> Upstream's not going to maintain/support 3 branches, and neither will we.
[01:01] <_ion> kano: Your nvidia script seems to install stuff around the filesystem without dpkg knowing about it.
[01:01] <ajmitch> by that point we'll probably have free nvidia drivers for those older cards anyway
[01:01] <infinity> We can't provide support for binary-only drivers without upstream's commitment to them.
[01:01] <Kano> _ion: thats correct, but nvidia-installer --uninstall works very well
[01:01] <TheK> ajmitch, are they making progress now?
[01:01] <_ion> Evil.
[01:01] <ajmitch> however, still not too relevant
[01:01] <Kano> the fglrx script uses packages
[01:02] <ajmitch> TheK: yes they are, I might package up the nouveau ddx & drm bits for people to play with
[01:02] <fabbione> ajmitch: i was able to see some errors on mdadm. i will look at them next week
[01:02] <fabbione> ajmitch:  i can't do testing from where i am now
[01:02] <ajmitch> fabbione: alright
[01:02] <ajmitch> I can't test until tonight either
[01:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: could we have a MIR for gnome-mount?
[01:02] <Kano> bye
[01:09] <Mithrandir> seb128: could you either seed or make something depend on industrial-cursor-theme if you actually want it in main?
[01:13] <Keybuk> pitti: and could we remove the Recommends: cryptsetup :p
[01:16] <pitti> Keybuk: uploaded
[01:29] <lamont> Mithrandir: re cdb - I don't really care - the cdb folks would feel it belongs in main, of course.
[01:29] <lamont> the nice part is that it's actually upstream that added cdb support, so sucking it into main would be good
[01:30] <Mithrandir> lamont: any chance of me convincing you to write a MIR?
[01:30] <lamont> sigh.  OK.  might be next weekend though
[01:30] <lamont> unless you need it sooner
[01:30] <infinity> Take your time.
[01:31] <infinity> It's not like anyone uses postfix anyway.
[01:31] <lamont> infinity: heh
[01:31] <lamont> but postfix is better than prefix, because it came later...
[01:36] <Kano> just a tiny addon, the bash hack is not required anymore, added a little replacement (there was == in a subscript)
[01:43] <_ion> Should we care?
[01:43] <pygi> _ion: release soon, this release will need so much testing :)
[01:44] <_ion> Cool.
[01:47] <pygi> hey bddebian
[01:47] <pygi> _ion: probably somewhere next week, 4 more tasks on TODO
[01:47] <bddebian> hI pygi
[01:48] <pygi> _ion: debian k3b package now searches for cdrskin as replacement for wodim
[01:48] <Mithrandir> pitti: g-m promoted
[01:53] <_ion> pygi: Nice.
[01:53] <pygi> _ion: for now ... yes ^_^
[01:53] <pygi> _ion: later --> drop wodim :)
[02:03] <_ion> pygi: And finally make k3b use libburn directly? :-)
[02:03] <pygi> _ion: that's third step. Second is to make k3b use cdrskin by default ^_^
[02:03] <pygi> _ion: for that third step, I need to talk with Sebastian
[02:08] <pygi> _ion: anyway, time to sleep
[02:08] <pygi> _ion: important exam which I'll fail today
[02:09] <_ion> What exam?
[02:09] <pygi> _ion: statistics ^_^
[02:09] <_ion> Good luck for the statistics exam which you'll fail today. :-)
[02:10] <pygi> _ion: thanks :P And the thing is that I'm preety sure that if I fail this exam I failed uni ^_^
[02:10] <pygi> but yea, good luck to me :)
[02:10] <pygi> night now :)
[02:10] <_ion> gnite.
[02:25] <psusi> anyone know much about this new ext resize feature and the resize inode?
[02:28] <psusi> didn't Theodore Ts'o used to hang here?  he seems to have written some of the code for handling it in e2fsprogs
[04:32] <jk-> ahoy
[05:21] <bluefoxicy> so bored
[05:23] <Keybuk> aww
[05:24] <jk-> is there any policy on where non-native libaries/headers are to be installed?
[05:24] <Keybuk> headers go in /usr/include
[05:24] <Keybuk> libraries normally in /usr/lib
[05:25] <jk-> Keybuk: yep, but it only makes sense to put native ones there..
[05:25] <Keybuk> how do you have a non-native library?
[05:25] <jk-> eg, for cross-compiling
[05:25] <Keybuk> /usr/lib/arch-linux type thing for that
[05:26] <jk-> and /usr/include/arch-linux ?
[05:26] <Keybuk> where arch-linux is the config.guess output
[05:26] <jk-> yep
[05:27] <Keybuk> e.g. /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu, /usr/lib/i486-linux-gnu
[05:27] <Keybuk> etc.
[05:29] <jk-> so just do the same thing for includes ?
[05:30] <Keybuk> something like that
[05:30] <jk-> smeet, ok.
[05:30] <jk-> cheers.
[05:32] <Ng> hey Keybuk
[05:32] <Keybuk> hey Ng!
[05:32] <Keybuk> how's it going!
[05:32] <Keybuk> long time no see!
[05:32] <Ng> Keybuk: hehe. python hates me ;)
[05:32] <Keybuk> Python hates everyone, it's goth
[05:33] <Ng> hah, typically, right as I typed that, i realised what I was doing wrong
[05:33] <Ng> so I can start using my own nonsense now \o/
[05:34] <Keybuk> what did you write?
[05:34] <Ng> I think I mentioned it t'other day, it just puts 4 vte widgets in a window, to maximise screen space on my teeny laptop
[05:35] <Keybuk> ahh
[05:36] <Ng> so nothing that devilspie and gnome-terminal couldn't do, but I wanted to learn some python and remind myself about gtk
[05:37] <Keybuk> I just press F11 twice
[05:37] <Keybuk> Metacity does the right thing
[05:37] <Keybuk> uh, four times
[05:37] <Ng> sure, that fullscreens a single terminal, but I lose panels behind it and it's just one terminal. this is 4 arranged in a grid
[05:38] <Ng> but anyway, it's all quite trivial ;)
[05:42] <Keybuk> ah
[05:42] <Keybuk> for me F11 just opens a single terminal
[05:42] <Keybuk> if I press it four times, I get four terminals arranged in a grid on my desktop
[05:42] <Keybuk> yay placement
[05:42] <Ng> oh, iswym. yeah I do that now and metacity mostly gets it right, but there's all that space wasted on window decoration ;)
[05:44] <_ion> One of the things i love about window shadows is the fact that you can use 0px window borders and still distinguish overlapping windows from each other perfectly.
[05:46] <Keybuk> and my workspace layout
[05:47] <Ng> I'm waiting for the crackful configuration to go away ;)
[05:49] <Keybuk> you can get rid of the wobbling and cube
[05:50] <Ng> and I do every time I try it, plus I have to ditch the blur plugin or it is unusably slow on this laptop, but the configuration is annoying and emerald is insane
[05:56] <_ion> Sounds like you've been using the beryl fork. I'm not using compiz nor beryl until nvidia releases a 9000 series driver that actually works, but i've heard compiz should have a less insane config UI than beryl has.
[05:57] <Ng> hey mnepton
[06:15] <mnepton> heya Ng
[06:16] <mnepton> what're you up to? poker in the lobby tonight. about to head down for a smoke and some cards.
[06:30] <Ng> mnepton: I'm being highly anti-social and attempting to ditch this cold
[06:31] <jk-> sharing is caring
[06:31] <jk-> :)
[06:31] <Mez> people still at MTV then /
[06:39] <_ion> The newest innovation: germ sharing in Patient2Patient networks.
[07:01] <siretart> pygi: in debian, dvd+rw-tools suggests cdrskin
[07:10] <AWOSLappy> I was referred here by #ubuntu.
[07:10] <AWOSLappy> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/32266/
[07:11] <AWOSLappy> When the error comes up, it stops for about five minutes with
[07:12] <AWOSLappy> '/sbin/modprobe': Premature exit      or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact wording
[07:12] <AWOSLappy> And ever since this error happens on bootup my touchpad and external PS/2 mouse no longer work.
[07:13] <crimsun> line 19 references an old kernel. Can you reproduce this with 6.06.1?
[07:13] <AWOSLappy> I have 6.06.1
[07:13] <crimsun> you're not using the latest kernel, however, according to the OOPS
[07:14] <AWOSLappy> Well I don't have Edgy (6.10), I have Dapper LTS (6.06.1)
[07:15] <AWOSLappy> Shall I get Feisty?
[07:15] <crimsun> I'm referring to 2.6.15-27
[07:15] <AWOSLappy> I will apt-get update and apt-get upgrade
[07:16] <crimsun> dist-upgrade instead of upgrade, please.
[07:16] <AWOSLappy> !
[07:16] <AWOSLappy> no!
[07:16] <AWOSLappy>  /dev/hda3  5.5G  5.1G  78M    99%  /
[07:16] <AWOSLappy> ^ I have no disk space
[07:16] <AWOSLappy> I can barely upgrade
[07:17] <AWOSLappy> and since the *STUPID* NFS doesn't work I can't back up either
[07:17] <crimsun> do you have a live cd?
[07:17] <AWOSLappy> of Dapper.
[07:17] <AWOSLappy> not of Edgy.
[07:17] <AWOSLappy> and besides, can bcm43xx be started on the live CD?
[07:17] <crimsun> that's fine, then, as long as you have it at the location where the machine is located physically.
[07:18] <AWOSLappy> Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Xubuntu?  I have all three
[07:18] <crimsun> doesn't really matter; they share the same kernel
[07:18] <AWOSLappy> Okay I am staring at the 6.06 LTS disc right now
[07:19] <AWOSLappy> but it has 2.6.15-23 too
[07:19] <crimsun> I would remove linux-image-2.6.15-23-386 and dist-upgrade to linux-image-2.6.15-27-386
[07:19] <AWOSLappy> !
[07:19] <AWOSLappy> can you even DO that without touching anything else?
[07:20] <crimsun> sure, it will remove linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-23-386 and assorted metapackages, but you should be interested more in getting that new l-i (and possibly l-r-m) than anything else
[07:21] <AWOSLappy> so what do I do in apt/sources.list?
[07:21] <crimsun> if it fubars, boot from the live cd, chroot into your install partition, remove linux-image-2.6.15-27-386, and reinstall linux-image-2.6.15-23-386 (and possibly linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-23-386) from the CD
[07:21] <crimsun> don't touch sources.list(5)
[07:21] <AWOSLappy> Ah okay.
[07:21] <AWOSLappy> okay not touching
[07:22] <AWOSLappy> Holy moly!
[07:22] <AWOSLappy> requires 83M of disk space
[07:22] <AWOSLappy> I have 78
[07:23] <crimsun> and that's why you remove linux-image-2.6.15-23-386 first, since it will remove linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-23-386, too, clearing more than 78 MB
[07:23] <AWOSLappy> ah
[07:23] <Ng> AWOSLappy: check /var/cache/apt/archives/ too, you may have old debs in there
[07:23] <AWOSLappy> Wow.
[07:23] <AWOSLappy> only requires 246kB now :)
[07:24] <AWOSLappy> Ng, that would be apt-get clean right?
[07:24] <Ng> yeah
[07:25] <AWOSLappy> Okay it sas
[07:25] <AWOSLappy> s/sas/says/
[07:26] <AWOSLappy> You are running a kernel (version 2.6.15-23-386) and attempting to remove the same version.
[07:26] <AWOSLappy> This is a potentially dangerous action.
[07:27] <AWOSLappy> Not only will /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.15-23-386 be removed, making it impossible to boot it, (you will have to take action to change your boot loader to boot a new kernel), it will also remove all modules under the directory /lib/modules/2.6.15-23-386.
[07:27] <AWOSLappy> Just having a copy of the kernel image is not enough, you will have to replace the modules too.
[07:27] <AWOSLappy> I repeat, this is very dangerous.  If at all in doubt, answer no.  If you know exactly what you are doing, and are prepared to hose your system, then answer Yes.
[07:28] <AWOSLappy> Remove the running kernel image (not recommended) [No] ?
[07:28] <AWOSLappy> What do I do crimsun?
[07:35] <AWOSLappy> crimsun?  hello?
[07:35] <crimsun> how much additional space do you gain when you ``apt-get clean''?
[07:35] <crimsun> (I'm busy atm.)
[07:36] <AWOSLappy> I don't know
[07:36] <AWOSLappy> Remove the running kernel image (not recommended) [No] ?
[07:36] <Mez> Keybuk, did you ever save a copy of that patch i made for signkey.pl ?
[07:36] <Keybuk> Mez: no, probably not -- why?
[07:36] <Mez> cause i lost it ;
[07:36] <Mez> and want a copy ;)
[07:36] <Keybuk> ahh
[07:36] <Keybuk> no, I don't
[07:37] <Mez> :(
[07:37] <Mez> Keybuk, do you have the email still describing it ?
[07:37] <crimsun> AWOSLappy: answer No, then, and find out how much space you gain (if any)
[07:38] <AWOSLappy> okay
[07:38] <AWOSLappy> Hmm.
[07:38] <AWOSLappy> I'm at 42M now
[07:39] <Keybuk> Mez: doubt it
[07:39] <AWOSLappy> after the download
[07:39] <crimsun> AWOSLappy: let's migrate this to #ubuntu, please, since it's not Feisty development-related.
[07:40] <AWOSLappy> okay.
[07:40] <Mez> Keybuk, thought not :P
[07:40] <Mez> Keybuk, anyways, when you back in brum so I can arrange a keysigning with you ;)
[07:40] <Keybuk> Mez: don't tend to keep e-mail much, and I haven't done much with signkey
[07:40] <Keybuk> Mez: sunday
[07:40] <Mez> up for a drink monday then ?
[08:31] <slomo_> infinity: please give-back tomboy on !x86 and gmime2.2 on x86, thanks :) should build now that libxml-*-perl is in main :)
[08:33] <Keybuk> slomo_: I can say with some amount of certainty that adam is *not* around right now :p
[08:33] <Burgundavia> Keybuk: have you filled my inbox just to make me cry when I try and parse them for UWN or just for the malicious pleasure of it?
[08:34] <Keybuk> Burgundavia: hmm?
[08:34] <Burgundavia> all the new stuff from Debina
[08:35] <Keybuk> can't avoid it
[08:35] <Keybuk> the mails go when they're accepted from NEW
[08:35] <Keybuk> so the usual "suppress the sync mails" thing doesn't work
[08:35] <Burgundavia> Keybuk: yep, anyway, this makes next weeks UWN a wee bit more interesting
[08:35] <Keybuk> heh
[08:35] <Keybuk> summary "we're syncing from Debian"
[08:35] <Keybuk> so not *that* interesting
[08:36] <Burgundavia> but all of that is stuff that is completely new in Ubuntu, correct?
[08:36] <Mez> Keybuk, and yet you didnt sync kde-style-klearlook
[08:36] <Keybuk> Mez: I didn't?
[08:36] <Mez> it wasnt in my inbox ;)
[08:36] <Keybuk> oh, it probably wanted to override a package or something
[08:37] <slomo_> Keybuk: ok, good to know :) if you have some seconds please do it ;)
[08:37] <Keybuk> slomo_: I have no seconds
[08:37] <Keybuk> and I have no beer
[08:37] <Mez> Keybuk, it provides a binary package already provided by the source package kde-klearlook in ubuntu
[08:37] <Keybuk> I need to rectify at least one of these ;P
[08:37] <Mez> but i wanna get rid of that source package and replace it with the debian one
[08:37] <Keybuk> Mez: does the one in ubuntu have XubuntuY in its version?
[08:38] <Mez> Keybuk, yes -
[08:38] <Keybuk> hmm, it doesn't show up in new-source
[08:38] <Mez> Keybuk, is there a way todrop the kde-klearlook package from the archives ?
[08:38] <Keybuk> kde-style-klearlook # shipped in klearlook
[08:38] <Keybuk> ahh
[08:38] <Keybuk> Mez: can I override the changes?
[08:38] <Mez> Keybuk, kill the klearlook source package and just grab the kde-style-klearlook source package from debian
[08:38] <Mez> there is a bug requesting that ;)
[08:39] <Keybuk> Mez: what's your lp id?
[08:39] <Mez> bug 61289
[08:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 61289 in klearlook "Please sync kde-style-klearlook <IP_ADDRESS>-1 from Debian" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/61289
[08:39] <Mez> Keybuk, it's mez
[08:40] <Keybuk> Will remove the following packages from feisty:
[08:40] <Keybuk>  klearlook | 0.9.7-0ubuntu2 | source
[08:40] <Keybuk> ------------------- Reason -------------------
[08:40] <Keybuk> (keybuk) RoM obsoleted by kde-style-klearlook
[08:40] <Keybuk> ----------------------------------------------
[08:40] <Mez> RoM
[08:40] <Mez> ?
[08:40] <Keybuk> Request-of-Maintainer
[08:41] <Mez> ah, cool :D
[08:41] <Mez> cheers, and if you can ping me when the sync is done I can kill off the bug
[08:42] <Keybuk> [Updating]  kde-style-klearlook (0 [Ubuntu]  < <IP_ADDRESS>-2 [Debian] )
[08:42] <Keybuk>  * Trying to add kde-style-klearlook...
[08:42] <Keybuk>   - <kde-style-klearlook_<IP_ADDRESS>.orig.tar.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[08:42] <Keybuk>   - <kde-style-klearlook_<IP_ADDRESS>-2.diff.gz: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[08:42] <Keybuk>   - <kde-style-klearlook_<IP_ADDRESS>-2.dsc: downloading from http://ftp.debian.org/debian/>
[08:42] <Keybuk> iwj: kde-style-klearlook [universe]  -> kde-style-klearlook_0.9.7-0ubuntu2 [universe] .
[08:43] <Keybuk> in NEW
[08:43] <Keybuk>          | * kde-style-klearlook/<IP_ADDRESS>-2 Component: universe Section: kde
[08:43] <Keybuk> accepted
[08:43] <Keybuk> all done
[08:43] <Mez> cool, noe judy goyys esit got iy
[08:43] <Mez> o_O
[08:44] <Keybuk> ?!
[08:44] <Mez> cool, now just gotta wait for it
[08:44] <Mez> (displaced fingers on kb)
[08:44] <Keybuk> ~2 hour
[08:44] <Hobbsee> Mez: put down the grog.  it's bad for you
[08:44] <Keybuk> source will go in at 0803 UTC
[08:44] <Keybuk> binaries may make it for 0903 UTC if the buildds are bored
[08:44] <Keybuk> which means the earliest in the archive is ~0940 UTC
[08:45] <Mez> Keybuk, now all I gotta do is wait for tfheen to poke prevu out of new and my day's hacking is done
[08:45] <Keybuk> heh
[08:45] <Keybuk> he'll be bored of it soon enough
[08:45] <Keybuk> he's still in the first few days of ubuntu-archive powers, so it's still exciting
[08:45] <Hobbsee> Mez: that's included in grog :P
[08:45] <Mez> Keybuk, i'm sure, but... so picky about the licence ;)
[08:45] <Keybuk> heh
[08:45] <Keybuk> damned right too
[08:46] <Keybuk> I think he's probably strictest, followed by me, followed by Colin and then adam as the loosest
[08:46] <Keybuk> anyway, drink then bed
[08:46] <Keybuk> nite
[09:46] <pygi> good morning folks
[01:07] <PecisDarbs> I have question for devs - what is libburn effort and where i can find more information about it?
[01:10] <Zdra> PecisDarbs: google ;-)
[01:11] <PecisDarbs> I already found it - #ubuntu-burning
[02:24] <zul> hey
[02:39] <hunger> Hmmm.... why doesn't feisty's session bus pick up files in ~/.local/share/dbus-1/services?
[02:40] <sjoerd> hunger: iirc that was added later
[02:41] <hunger> sjoerd: Later than 1.0?
[02:42] <sjoerd> hrm, no your right.. It's there since RC3
[02:42] <hunger> sjoerd: I got dbus 1.0.0-1ubuntu1 installed on feisty and the directory seems to be ignored.
[02:43] <hunger> sjoerd: /etc/dbus-1/session.conf does list /usr/share/dbus-1/services only.
[02:44] <sjoerd> ah that should be replaced by <standard_session_servicedirs/> probably
[02:45] <hunger> That thing is full of FIXME: and still went "stable"!
[03:08] <mruiz> ping Mithrandir
[03:42] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:16] <sbalneav> Trying to test some compatibility on LTSP with Intel graphics.  Does anyone know if you can buy an Intel 3d graphics card as an actual stick-it-in-the-machine card, or does intel only do onboard?
[05:17] <Seveas> sbalneav, at UDS someone told me that intel now has at least one stick-it-in-the-machine card
[05:17] <Amaranth> i don't think it's publicly available yet
[05:19] <sbalneav> grmble.
[05:19] <sbalneav> Thanks anyway.  Mobo's are cheap enough, so I suppose I can just buy a different mobo.
[05:58] <sivang> crimsun: ping
[06:01] <sivang> people are waking up in san fran ;)
[06:01] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: could you take a look at the merged pppoeconf please? I will give you a link when you are here
[06:02] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: why not give me the link when I'm not here? :-P
[06:03] <Adri2000> hehe ^^ wait one sec
[06:03] <Keybuk> ogra:
[06:03] <Keybuk> Will remove the following packages from feisty:
[06:03] <Keybuk> ltsp-utils |     0.25-1 | source
[06:03] <Keybuk> ------------------- Reason -------------------
[06:03] <Keybuk> (keybuk) RoM
[06:03] <Keybuk> ----------------------------------------------
[06:05] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: here: http://adrishost.homeip.net/~adri2000/ubuntu/pppoeconf/
[06:05] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: I'll take a look.
[06:05] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: and builds fine in a feisty pbuilder
[06:06] <Adri2000> thanks
[06:12] <Mirv> is the importing of new debian packages (previously unexisting) started yet? or is it ongoing all the time?
[06:19] <giftnudel> hi sivang :)
[06:41] <sivang> giftnudel: Hi Martin!
[06:41] <sivang> giftnudel: what's up? :)
[06:42] <giftnudel> sivang: nothing, just saying hello ;)
[06:42] <giftnudel> sivang: i'm currently learning the python debugger so I will be faster in the future (hopefully)
[06:43] <sivang> giftnudel: cool, I'm sorry I haven't responded to your emails yet, I was busy dealing with real life.
[06:43] <sivang> giftnudel: ah, what do you want to debug ? ;)
[06:43] <giftnudel> oh, I will be busy in the next weeks too, but still, as long as you answer sometime, it doesn't really matter
[06:44] <sivang> giftnudel: okay, cool, I just don't want to delay your contributions with my lack of response :)
[06:44] <giftnudel> sivang: hubackup, i'm trying to fix bug 72015
[06:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72015 in hubackup "Cannot back up more than 4GB to a FAT32 partition" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72015
[06:45] <giftnudel> so I'll see where I can implement that, and for this I want to see what information is available at what stage
[06:54] <giftnudel> sivang: oh, I have registered a branch in launchpad: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~martin-bergner/hubackup/mbergner--devel since I had space problems with my other branch
[07:03] <netG> hi
[07:04] <netG> Is there any way to downgrade from feisty to edgy?
[07:04] <netG> I've changed entry in sources.list then apt-get update
[07:06] <Treenaks> netG: no, downgrading is not supported/easy
[07:07] <netG> ahhhhrrg
[07:09] <netG> so I have to reinstall from edgy CD... ;-(
[07:12] <sivang> giftnudel: okay, so are you waiting for me to finish the backup/restore stuff before you can continue fixing bug 72015 ?
[07:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 72015 in hubackup "Cannot back up more than 4GB to a FAT32 partition" [Undecided,In progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/72015
[07:13] <giftnudel> sivang: no, not really, I have to find out a way to find out what partition and therefore fstype  a given path belongs to
[07:13] <giftnudel> sivang: I don't have to wait for you, this could be done in parallel I guess
[07:13] <sivang> giftnudel: right, it does sound so, btw, I think we can fetch this info from hal no?
[07:15] <giftnudel> sivang: yes, but how? I mean, I could look at the path and go up on level and see if it matches any mountpoint in hal, but this would fail if there were two things mounted on the same mountpoint
[07:15] <giftnudel> it would work though
[07:21] <giftnudel> sivang: I think I'll write a function which does exactly that: Find out what device/partition a mountpoint belongs to and return all the information from hal we have about it, this will be handful in other places, too
[07:25] <giftnudel> ah, what mountpoint a path belongs too, rather
[07:30] <sivang> giftnudel: indeed
[07:30] <sivang> giftnudel: but yest, make it the other way around as you just noted , e.g. detect which file system a path lies underneath, and then find out what type of file system it is
[07:31] <sivang> giftnudel: cool about the approach, as it will be useful in other places ofcoure.
[07:32] <giftnudel> sivang: this is exactly the thing that is missing in BackupEngine to do a on the fly slice size detection ;)
[07:38] <sivang> giftnudel: hmm, maybe, but you could already do on the fly slice size detection using the utility function in fsMisc.py no?
[07:38] <sivang> (that detects free space on a file system path)
[07:41] <sivang> giftnudel: ah, that's fsMisc.free_space(path)
[07:42] <sivang> giftnudel: then you could use the free space to set up the slice size, IIRC I already did on the fly slice detection for the CDs through using DeviceInfo.py
[07:50] <Treenaks> what if something else is also writing at the same time?
[07:50] <Treenaks> sivang: then your 'free space' estimate is off
[07:53] <sivang> Treenaks: you are asked to close running programs before doing a backup ;-) but this is unrelated to the on the fly slice size detection, this is yet another system wide problem from programs that need to know available space on the system for future or in progress processing.
[07:56] <sivang> for instance, consider nautilus moving a file from one location to another, and in the target location at some point available space is out.
[07:57] <giftnudel> sivang: yes, i will look at that, but I need to go now
[08:32] <Keybuk> mjg59: ping?
[08:33] <mjg59> Keybuk: Hi
[08:34] <Keybuk> mjg59: few issues with compiz ...
[08:34] <mjg59> Sure
[08:34] <Keybuk> switching appears to lose windows
[08:34] <mjg59> "switching"?
[08:34] <Keybuk> it doesn't appear to obey any of my metacity preferences, like keyboard shortcuts, or window behaviour
[08:34] <Keybuk> mjg59: between metacity and compiz
[08:35] <Keybuk> and most annoyingly, it doesn't obey my workspace layout
[08:35] <mjg59> Windows will be moved because of the workspace/viewport distinction
[08:35] <mjg59> All the preferences work fine here
[08:35] <Keybuk> I can't move windows with the Super key
[08:35] <mjg59> Does it work if you set that in the window preferences?
[08:36] <mjg59> If not, it's a general bug rather than a preferences bug
[08:36] <Keybuk> the window preferences dialog appears to be empty
[08:36] <mjg59> Your system sounds somehow screwed
[08:36] <Keybuk> Windows-Tab doesn't appear to switch windows
[08:36] <Keybuk> Windows-Arrow-Keys don't move workspaces
[08:36] <mjg59> Your system is *definitely* screwed
[08:36] <Keybuk> it's just a feisty system
[08:36] <mjg59> Oh, wait
[08:36] <mjg59> Windows-tab?
[08:36] <mjg59> Hm.
[08:36] <mjg59> Does alt-tab work?
[08:36] <Keybuk> mjg59: yes, I changed the keyboard shortcuts
[08:37] <Keybuk> alt-tab appears to work
[08:37] <mjg59> Ok, that's something, at least
[08:37] <sivang> I can't even try this due to lack of the prop. drivers for feisty , the troubles of the rich ;)
[08:37] <Keybuk> mjg59: the workspace layout is lost too
[08:37] <Keybuk> the pager still shows 4x3
[08:37] <mjg59> Keybuk: You still have 4x3 workspaces
[08:37] <Keybuk> but the window manager behaves as if I only have 4 in one row
[08:37] <mjg59> No, those are viewports
[08:38] <Keybuk> ?
[08:38] <mjg59> You can tell by the way windows can spread across more than one
[08:38] <mjg59> They're entirely separate concepts. Each workspace can have more than one viewport.
[08:38] <Keybuk> how do I move to the workspace/viewport above and below?
[08:38] <mjg59> Click on the workspace applet.
[08:38] <mjg59> This is waiting on libwnck patches
[08:38] <Keybuk> can't I just have a big 4x3 workspace with 12 viewpoints?
[08:38] <mjg59> No
[08:39] <Keybuk> that sucks
[08:39] <mjg59> Yes
[08:39] <Keybuk> it appears consistent ... no dialog box has anything in it
[08:39] <wasabi> Heh. So I'm not the only person who changes it to WIndows-tab
[08:39] <Keybuk> and I'm not getting highlights in menus either
[08:39] <mjg59> Ok, so something is clearly desperately unhappy there
[08:39] <Keybuk> the utter lack of respect for existing preferences is a major bug
[08:40] <mjg59> It doesn't have an utter lack of respect for existing preferences
[08:40] <Keybuk> it does
[08:40] <mjg59> No, it doesn't
[08:40] <Keybuk> it's clearly not looking at any of the metacity preferences I set
[08:40] <Keybuk> utterly clearly ignoring them
[08:40] <mjg59> It works fine with all the metacity preferences /I/ set
[08:40] <Keybuk> keyboard shortcuts I removed have come back
[08:40] <Keybuk> keyboard shortcuts I changed have been reverted
[08:40] <Keybuk> in fact, I can't see a single preference it's obeying
[08:41] <wasabi> You did load the gconf module, right?
[08:41] <Keybuk> except, maybe, focus-follows-mouse
[08:41] <Keybuk> wasabi: ?
[08:41] <mjg59> wasabi: It's impossible not to in this setup
[08:41] <Keybuk> acs compiz gconf shows no packages?
[08:41] <wasabi> Ahh.
[08:42] <Keybuk> mjg59: this box was installed fresh with edgy when it released, and then updated to feisty
[08:42] <Keybuk> so it's nowhere near unusual or customised
[08:42] <mjg59> Keybuk: I'm not saying it's not a real issue, I'm saying it's not a general issue.
[08:42] <Keybuk> just my usual changes to the keyboard shortcuts and window dialog
[08:44] <Keybuk> F11 doesn't open a terminal either
[08:44] <Keybuk> so it's ignoring that shortcut
[08:44] <mjg59> That's not a window manager shortcut, surely?
[08:45] <Mithrandir> it doesn't respect f1 to open a terminal here either.
[08:45] <Keybuk> it's in the Keyboard Shortcuts dialog
[08:45] <Keybuk> and handled by metacity
[08:46] <mjg59> Ok. In that case, I suspect it's just missing functionality.
[08:47] <Keybuk> it's not obeying my "Close Window" shortcut
[08:47] <Keybuk> I change that to Super-F4 from Alt-F4
[08:48] <Keybuk> compiz is only reacting to Alt-F4
[08:49] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: what does gconftool-2 -g /apps/compiz/general/allscreens/options/close_window_key
[08:49] <Mithrandir> say?
F4
[08:49] <Keybuk> /apps/metacity/window_keybindings/close = <Mod4>F4
[08:49] <Mithrandir> can you change it to Super and see if it works?
[08:50] <Mithrandir> or Mod4
[08:50] <Keybuk> yes, that works
[08:50] <mjg59> Metacity madness.
[08:50] <Keybuk> but the keyboard shortcuts dialog changes the metacity one
[08:50] <mjg59> Oh, I see
[08:50] <Keybuk> mjg59: what's this got to do with metacity?
[08:50] <mjg59> Sorry, I misread compiz as metacity
[08:50] <Keybuk> metacity is behaving correctly.
[08:50] <Keybuk> :)
[08:52] <Adri2000> Mithrandir: pppoeconf? :)
[08:52] <mjg59> Oh, gross.
[08:52] <mjg59> gnome-keybinding-properties writes directly into metacity's preferences.
[08:52] <Keybuk> arguably, all of those should be /desktop/gnome/keybindings or something
[08:52] <mjg59> Yes.
[08:52] <Mithrandir> Adri2000: meeting
[08:53] <Keybuk> /desktop/gnome/window_manager_behaviour too for the Windows preferences
[08:53] <Keybuk> ?
[08:53] <Mithrandir> would upstream kill us if we just did that?
[08:53] <mjg59> Talk it over with upstream first
[08:53] <mjg59> Bear in mind that you'd need to migrate settings over
[08:53] <Keybuk> we'd need to have someone do that work
[08:54] <mjg59> The alternative is just to change the references in compiz and have it use the metacity keys
[08:54] <Keybuk> the main guys we're likely to have for bling development work are the beryl guys
[08:54] <Keybuk> so it may be easier to just get beryl to read/write gconf properly
[08:54] <mjg59> Beryl explicitly removed gconf support
[08:54] <Keybuk> we can make them explicitly put it back :)
[08:55] <mjg59> Ha
[08:55] <mjg59> This is going to be a ~20 line patch to compiz
[08:55] <Keybuk> can you do that patch?
[08:55] <mjg59> A monkey with a missing arm could do that patch
[08:55] <Keybuk> cool, if you could do that, that'd be great
[08:55] <mjg59> I'm at work right now, so don't have a fesity box
[08:56] <mjg59> I'll try to give you a diff in a few minutes
[09:05] <_MMA_> I thought the Beryl guys said they removed gconf support so they could make it DE independent? At UDS they mentioned at their "stable" release would have support for reading your keybindings. I thought thats what was going to happen?
[09:06] <mjg59> Removing the primary configuration store from gconf isn't acceptable from a managability perspective
[09:06] <mjg59> It means tools like Sabayon become much less useful
[09:06] <_MMA_> yes.
[09:07] <_MMA_> You could get one of the guys over here now probably. DBO or someone.
[09:08] <Treenaks> also.. the config modules in compiz _are_ optional and interchangeable, afaik..
[09:08] <Treenaks> so there's not much of a point in _removing_ gconf support..
[09:10] <_ion> Indeed.
[09:26] <mnepton> TGIF
[09:26] <mnepton> thank god i farted.
[09:27] <ogra> how great you arent in the distro meeting
[09:28] <Treenaks> ogra: so fart for him a bit :P
[09:28] <ogra> :P
[09:29] <Treenaks> (fart by proxy?)
[09:30] <jdub> mjg59: red hat are doing the work for compiz/metacity settings integration
[09:30] <jdub> *please god bring ubuntu back from the beryl brink*
[09:31] <Treenaks> uhr
[09:31] <Treenaks> s/is//
[09:32] <mc44> jdub: but. its *community*
[09:33] <jdub> mc44: as is compiz, but with higher standards.
[09:33] <mc44> jdub: yes, sorry that wasn't a serious argument :)
[09:34] <ogra> Treenaks==MOTU, dosbox==universe ;)
[09:34] <Treenaks> ogra: sure, but I think it's upstream
[09:35] <_ion> dosbox==universe, therefore universe==dosbox?
[09:36] <Treenaks> _ion: apt-get install command,com
[09:38] <Burgwork> jdub: I really don;t see how beryl is going to match the spec, so I am not worried
[09:38] <mnepton> jdub: you obviously have not been smoking enough crack recently. please rectify.
[09:42] <Treenaks> mnepton: I think the beryl people smoked it all
[09:47] <Burgwork> Treenaks: you don;t tell support people there is no crack to smoke. It causes them to lose hope
[09:47] <Treenaks> Burgwork: they have their own special stash
[09:47] <Burgwork> true
[09:48] <Treenaks> Burgwork: with added valium
[09:48] <mc44> they dont need crack anymore, they have flaming board karate
[09:48] <Treenaks> "Imagine it's a customer"
[09:50] <mnepton> a what now?
[09:50] <mnepton> what is this "customer" you speak of?
[09:50] <Treenaks> mnepton: client? supportee?
[09:50] <mnepton> oooooh! those!
[09:51] <Treenaks> supportee.. I like that word.. nice and generic :)
[09:51] <ogra> the voice coming out of your phone usually ;)
[09:51] <Treenaks> ogra: Oh HIM! :P
[09:51] <Treenaks> ogra: (no, not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIM_%28band%29)
[09:51] <mnepton> ogra: the voices usually just tell me to burn things.
[09:52] <mc44> mnepton: now they tell you to punch burning things, much better
[09:52] <ogra> mnepton, and break them later with your bare hand ?
[09:52] <mnepton> ogra: or bury them after post-immolation sodomization. but perhaps i have said too much ....
[09:53] <ogra> *g*
[09:53] <Treenaks> mnepton: I won't tell anyone.. if you won't
[09:53] <mnepton> Treenaks: my home address is ....
[09:53] <mc44> mnepton: oh dont worry simon told everyone your address already
[09:56] <mnepton> mc44: just remember, i like it rough. that's why i accepted Canonical's offer.
[09:59] <zul> mnepton: offer for what?
[09:59] <zul> mnepton: oh hey kurt nevermind
[10:01] <mjg59> jdub: They may well be, but none of it's released
[10:03] <jdub> mjg59: hrm, i thought it was
[10:05] <jdub> mjg59: talk to ssp about it
[10:53] <crimsun> sivang: pong
[10:54] <sivang> crimsun: there was some issue with flahplugin-nonfree
[10:54] <crimsun> yes, I've already committed the fix
[10:54] <crimsun> I won't upload the fix until Bart releases the fix for the debconf issue, however, which is coming in <IP_ADDRESS>.3
[10:55] <sivang> crimsun: who is Bart and what sort of debconf issue is this? :)
[10:55] <crimsun> Bart is the Debian maintainer
[10:55] <sivang> ah, for debconf I assume?
[10:55] <crimsun> the debconf issue is bug 398726
[10:56] <crimsun> Debian 398726
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 398726 in flashplugin-nonfree "flashplugin-nonfree: dpkg-reconfigure fails" [Grave,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/398726
[10:58] <sivang> crimsun: I see, I didn't actually understand why --force-overwrite didn't solve it
[11:00] <crimsun> well, our specific issue on upgrades is due to the fact that /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox points to /usr/lib/firefox, so since the maintainer script attempts to install into both locations (presuming both are distinct), it bombs after installing into /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/plugins
[11:19] <lifeless> ogra: ping
[11:21] <sivang> crimsun: ah, I see


[17:40] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-state-with-formula r184 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:40] <_mup_> move the parse formula metadata up the pipeline stack.
[17:40] <_mup_> ensemble/formula-upgrade-cli r185 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:40] <_mup_> resolve conflicts from extraction of parse formula id up the pipeline.
[18:24] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-state-with-formula r185 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:24] <_mup_> per the formula spec the revision specifier is separate by a - not a :
[18:25] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-state-with-formula r186 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[18:25] <_mup_> add a set_formula_id to a service state, update to utilize parse formula id for id validation.
[19:50] <_mup_> ensemble/service-unit-state-upgrade-support r187 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:50] <_mup_> unit state api for upgrade flags, get/set/watch
[19:59] <_mup_> ensemble/unit-state-with-formula r187 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:59] <_mup_> set formula id fixes from state api work.
[23:44] <_mup_> ensemble/config-pipeline r181 committed by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[23:44] <_mup_> updates to config spec based on Kapil's review


[02:08] <robert_ancell> duflu, bug 1203207 is the Main Inclusion Request for mir
[02:11] <duflu> robert_ancell: Oh. Very confusing acronym
[02:11] <robert_ancell> yes
[02:15]  * duflu begins to struggle with a new keyboard. Very slow
[02:51] <RAOF> Oh, why the new keyboard?
[02:55] <duflu> RAOF: Because I've been using the old one to death... for 10+ years.
[02:56] <duflu> That said, I'm now back on it. I think I need a different new keyboard
[02:57] <RAOF> Fair suck of the sav.
[02:57] <duflu> Is that a Rudd'ism?
[03:00] <RAOF> I'm pretty sure it's not?
[03:00] <RAOF> Isn't that a stereotypical Strayaism?
[03:00] <duflu> Maybe. But I never heard any like that before Rudd
[03:22] <robert_ancell> RAOF, were you making a .symbols file for libmirserver as well as libmirclient?
[03:26] <RAOF> robert_ancell: No?
[03:26] <RAOF> Would you like me to be?
[03:27] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ok, just wanted to check. I'm going to look at enabling that
[03:27] <robert_ancell> RAOF, do you have a branch for the client .symbols file?
[03:27] <RAOF> Not on Launchpad, no.
[03:27] <robert_ancell> go on...
[03:27] <robert_ancell> you know you (I) want you to
[03:28] <RAOF> I can push it up, but it doesn't work, because something's exporting a bunch of C++ drivel we don't want exported.
[03:28]  * RAOF does so.
[03:28] <robert_ancell> not working is my specialty
[03:31] <robert_ancell> thomi, is there a reason why jenkins polls the MPs and can't just have a hook on the bzr repo to know when new ones come in?
[03:31]  * robert_ancell gets somewhat impatient with Jenkins
[03:32] <thomi> robert_ancell: you probably know bzr better than I do, but I don't think you can do that
[03:32] <thomi> robert_ancell: my understanding is that a MP really has nothing to do with bzr
[03:32] <robert_ancell> yeah, I guess
[03:32] <thomi> robert_ancell: if launchpad had that functionality we could
[03:32] <thomi> but... no one is landing new launchpad functionality :)
[03:32] <robert_ancell> poll faster dammit! :)
[03:33] <thomi> robert_ancell: it should be pretty fast
[03:33] <thomi> robert_ancell: what makes you think that it's slow?
[03:33] <robert_ancell> I'm pretty impatient
[03:33] <robert_ancell> I just want the server to double check my results in minutes and push :)
[03:35] <robert_ancell> RAOF, woah, big old pile-o-patches to mesa :)
[03:35] <RAOF> Yup.
[03:35] <RAOF> 'tis what has been consuming my time :)
[03:35] <thomi> robert_ancell: it may be that what you're actually waiting on is the build time, rather than the poll time
[03:43] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Enjoy lp:~raof/mir/mirclient-symbols
[03:44] <robert_ancell> RAOF, ta
[03:46] <duflu> RAOF: If you never start/use X, Mir only needs the Mesa stuff upstreamed to work, right?
[03:47] <RAOF> duflu: Correct.
[03:47] <duflu> That will be nice to be able to build/run Mir without any PPAs
[04:27] <thomi> RAOF_: any ideas where I get the swrast video driver from? I'm trying to use xvfb for something, and it's complaingin at me
[04:36] <duflu> thomi: It's part of Mesa.... libgl1-mesa-dri:amd64: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/dri/swrast_dri.so
[04:52] <RAOF_> duflu is correct.
[05:11] <tvoss> good morning :)
[05:13] <tvoss> RAOF, good morning :)
[05:13] <RAOF> tvoss: Aloha.
[05:44] <duflu> tvoss: Morning (v2)
[05:44] <tvoss> duflu, good morning :)
[05:44] <duflu> Woo, another Perth Canonicaler
[06:16] <tvoss> RAOF, hah, debian rules for the intel driver enables both sna and uxa and --with-default-accel=uxa
[06:18] <RAOF> tvoss: Not as of http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mir-team/mir/xf86-video-intel-fixup/revision/196 ?
[06:18] <duflu> So, does SNA win at runtime?
[06:18] <RAOF> Maybe it just needs a rebuild?
[06:18] <duflu> Oh, of course not, if default==UXA
[06:18] <tvoss> RAOF, yeah, I'm looking at the source package from the system-compositor-testing ppa
[06:19] <RAOF> tvoss: The recipe https://code.launchpad.net/~mir-team/+recipe/xf86-video-intel-xmir should nest xf86-video-intel-fixup as the packaging. But it looks like the last autobuild failed to upload, so I've prodded a rebuild.
[06:19] <tvoss> RAOF, ack, thanks
[06:29] <alf__> duflu: @distinguish-locked-buffers, could you please briefly explain why need to differentiate between the two kinds of consumers?
[06:31] <duflu> alf__: Because bypass requires that you can and will have two compositor buffers acquired at once, and each acquire gives you a new one. A snapshot on the other hand is always shared and never "progresses" the buffer queue
[06:35] <alf__> duflu: For normal (non-bypass) usage though, we need to be able to (potentially) share compositor buffers. For example, if a window is between two outputs.
[06:35] <alf__> duflu: and it has to be rendered on both
[06:36] <duflu> alf__: Yes I will be covering the shared case... and will adapt as multimonitor evolves
[06:39] <tvoss_> RAOF, where did you copy the package to? does not show up on system-compositor-testing
[06:40] <RAOF> Haven't copied the package at all; just triggered a build from the recipe in mir-team/staging
[06:48] <tvoss_> RAOF, hmmm, upload failed
[06:49] <duflu> alf__: I'm not entirely comfortable implicitly guaranteeing that successive compositor_acquires will return the same buffer multiple times. I think you should either try to call it only once, or flag the intended use or required buffer number
[06:49] <duflu> That would be safer, and clearer
[06:50] <RAOF> tvoss_: Oh, of course. No change on the xf86-video-intel-vladmir branch means no change in version number. Should be fixed by tweaking the recipe, which I've done and hit the "build" button for.
[06:51] <tvoss_> RAOF, thx
[06:51] <tvoss_> RAOF, got some time for a chat?
[06:51] <RAOF> duflu, alf__: Your talk reminds me that I'll need to discuss some buffer issues regarding GLX passthrough, once I've finished upstreaminginginginginging.
[06:51] <RAOF> tvoss_: In a little bit? I'd like to finish all this upstream pushing first.
[06:51] <tvoss_> RAOF, yeah, sure :)
[06:52] <tvoss_> RAOF, just ping me
[06:52] <duflu> alf__: compositor_acquire(int age) ?
[07:07] <alf__> duflu: How do you think we should deal with the "surface rendered on multiple output" scenario? The current strategy (as implemented by the MultiAcquisitionBackBufferStrategy) tries to minimize having out of sync information on different screens, while keeping performance reasonable. I am sure there are other mechanisms, but we should think about the conflicting constraints and prioritize/compromise. See https://code.launchpad.net/~afrantzis/m
[07:09] <duflu> alf__: I think the compositor should either guarantee one compositor_acquire per surface per frame, or it should include extra info to tell the buffer stream if it can/should recycle the previous one
[07:09] <duflu> Maybe pass a serial/frame number into acquire
[07:12] <duflu> alf__: In fact, compositor_acquire(int frameno) would eliminate the need for a separate snapshot_acquire
[07:13] <alf__> duflu: we don't currently have the concept of a single frame across all outputs, since we render each output in its own thread, following different timings.
[07:14] <duflu> alf__: Yes, good point.
[07:14] <tvoss_> RAOF, seems like the recipe finished successfully
[07:15] <duflu> alf__: What's the motivation for spreading composition across multiple threads?
[07:15] <duflu> Just trying to be a little faster?
[07:16] <duflu> ... because it might break down when we have to manage whole-display transformations/effects
[07:16] <duflu> Not sure
[07:18] <alf__> duflu: Main point is consistently rendering at each output's refresh rate
[07:18] <duflu> alf__: Right. Be fast to ensure you can keep up. Makes some sense
[07:19] <RAOF> Well, also because you can't ensure that there aren't beats in the two refresh ticks.
[07:19] <alf__> duflu: it's not just about performance... RAOF got there first ^^^ :)
[07:20] <duflu> What's a "beat"?
[07:20] <RAOF> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_%28acoustics%29
[07:20] <duflu> Oh, right, a (heart) beat to throttle the client
[07:21] <duflu> Actually, no, I don't see how that's related
[07:22] <RAOF> If you've got two ticks (a and b) with slightly different frequencies - as you likely will with two different vblank signals - then there'll be times when there is an arbitrarily small gap between a tick from a and a tick from b.
[07:23] <RAOF> So if you try and render both in the same thread you'll find that for any non-zero frame render time you'll be missing frames some of the time.
[07:24] <alf__> duflu: RAOF: and also even if vsync rate is exactly the same, the starting offset of the vsync cycle is not guaranteed to be the same on different outputs. For example, one output's vsync may happend in the middle of the vsync cycle of another output (v0+8ms)
[07:26] <duflu> OK, I don't fully need to understand the reasoning on that right now.  It's just nice to know why it's not
[07:27] <duflu> And regardless, performance will be higher and support for multiple GPUs closer to reality with multiple threads
[08:12] <RAOF> tvoss_: Finished the frantic upstreaming; can we chat post Zoë-bath?
[08:13] <tvoss_> RAOF, for sure :)
[08:13] <tvoss_> RAOF, saw your mails on the xorg-devel list
[08:54] <freeflying> do we still have 2 cursors issue with staging mir ppa?
[08:58] <tvoss> freeflying, yup
[08:58] <freeflying> tvoss: sounds cool, will give it try
[08:58] <tvoss> freeflying, you might want to use the system-compositor-testing ppa, though
[08:59] <tvoss> freeflying, staging revs too fast right now
[08:59] <freeflying> tvoss: my laptop has a built-in touch screen, so concern of the 2 cursors issue :)
[09:00] <tvoss> freeflying, I don't think anyone has tested that :) but: all input handling is done by X anyways
[09:03] <tvoss> RAOF, can I just copy over the intel driver from staging to testing?
[09:07] <RAOF> tvoss_: Yes.
[09:07] <tvoss_> RAOF, okay, just installed from staging, running fine with SNA enabled by default
[09:08] <tvoss_> RAOF, to verify: copy with binaries is correct?
[09:09] <RAOF> Correct.
[09:10] <tvoss_> same series, too?
[09:12] <RAOF> Yes.
[09:18] <tvoss_> RAOF, copied
[09:18] <RAOF> Cool.
[10:05] <freeflying> tvoss_: 2 cursors issue is still in system-compositor-testing with my laptop
[10:07] <tvoss_> freeflying, right :) we abuse it right now as a watermark
[10:07] <tvoss_> freeflying, if you feel adventerous, I can give you a deb that removes the second cursor
[10:08] <freeflying>  tvoss_ yes plz :)
[12:59] <kgunn> didrocks: is everything in order ? (i should say "at the moment" :)
[13:00] <didrocks> kgunn: we still have this ati issue, right? Is it worked on?
[13:00] <didrocks> kgunn: on the MIR, see my answer and please run the "check-mir" command on them :)
[13:00] <didrocks> kgunn: finally, we need to find people to maintain all those new rdepends in main
[13:00] <kgunn> didrocks: uh-oh...thought we clear those...bug# ?
[13:01] <didrocks> kgunn: seems we didn't (it didn't move): bug #1203070
[13:01] <didrocks> and I can confirm this morning's test is still failing
[13:03] <kgunn> bregma: do you or any of your team have a machine with ati locally ?
[13:03] <kgunn> wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070
[13:03] <kgunn> just wondering for easier debug
[13:03] <bregma> kgunn, not me, and I don;t think any of my team since we had to borrow one to track a problem a few months ago (but I'll check, just in case)
[13:03] <kgunn> otherwise...can bschaefer work with robotfuel today ?
[13:04] <kgunn> bregma: thanks
[13:05] <bregma> actually, I lie, there is a machine in my house with an ATI card but it's still running 10.04 and I doubt I could upgrade it without political difficulty :)
[13:10] <robotfuel> kgunn: I asked which card it was in the bug, I have xmir working on ati cards that I've tested.
[13:11] <robotfuel> didrocks: ^
[13:11] <kgunn> bregma: :D
[13:11] <kgunn> tell "her" its for a good cause :))
[13:12] <didrocks> robotfuel: did you see what I wrote in the description? RAOF already did a first pass
[13:12] <mlankhorst> meh my nv50 is failing entirely :P
[13:12] <kgunn> bregma: well....seems maybe its a specific card
[13:12] <kgunn> mlankhorst: bah!...or not
[13:12] <didrocks> answered anyway ;)
[13:13] <didrocks> kgunn: tell me once you finished the MIR btw + found maintainers for the rdepends we are not upstream for
[13:26] <kgunn> didrocks: rdepends == who's gonna own xorg/mesa patches right ?...can we assume its RAOF for now?...i will work to get another name & will be explicit when/if this changes
[13:26] <kgunn> that ok ?
[13:27] <didrocks> kgunn: I meant the other one, you added (and rightly) opened a MIR against those
[13:28] <didrocks> the new MIR build-dependencies
[13:28] <didrocks> Mir
[13:28] <didrocks> that we have to MIR (just adding complexity :p)
[13:29] <kgunn> didrocks: ah glog, glmath
[13:29] <didrocks> kgunn: exactly
[13:29] <didrocks> kgunn: we need a team subscribed to the bug
[13:29] <didrocks> who will fix those if we have/critical issues in ubuntu
[13:29] <didrocks> (as it's supported by canonical)
[13:30] <didrocks> liburcu, systemtap…
[13:30] <kgunn> olli__: ^
[13:30] <kgunn> its like system "stuff"
[13:30] <didrocks> libgflags needs a MIR as well
[13:30] <didrocks> but wasn't opened: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/google-glog/+bug/1151844
[13:30] <didrocks> as seems gflag had a +1 from mterry :p
[13:31] <tvoss> didrocks, I think we had a gflags MIR before
[13:31] <didrocks> tvoss: yeah, it's that one
[13:31] <tvoss> didrocks, ah okay
[13:31] <didrocks> tvoss: it was merged in the google-glog one
[13:31] <didrocks> just didn't read through the ack :p
[14:50] <kgunn> tvoss_: i'm running your one off fine....but pts giving me guff at the moment....complaining about php (which i know i had previously....arrggg)
[14:51] <tvoss_> kgunn, okay, the one you have does not clean the list of damaged regions :) and you should see increased cpu usage by usc
[17:39] <racarr> First GPU hang of the week woo
[18:30] <racarr> what is the shell class that listens to surface configuration requests from the client and I guess approves/dissaproves them
[18:31] <racarr> I cant think of anything other than the super unsatisfying like
[18:31] <racarr> SurfaceConfigurator, or things like that that tell you
[18:31] <racarr> nothing
[18:35] <kdub> SurfaceRequestGatekeeper
[18:40] <racarr> kdub: closer maybe but I still dont like it somehow
[18:40] <racarr> maybe the_surface_attribute_selector()
[18:41] <racarr> Value SurfaceAttributeSelector::select_value(Surface, Attribute, RequestedValue)
[18:42] <kdub> still pretty vague :)
[18:44] <kdub> sounds like you're trying to name it 'what does this do for mir' when it might be a class that describes something mir does for hte shell?
[18:44] <racarr> mm
[18:45] <kdub> racarr, also keep in mind that we'll need something similar to that class for surfaces and connections, i think
[18:45] <kdub> (thinking of denying framebuffer reconfiguraiton requests)
[18:46] <racarr> kdub: This chain of thought reminds me of an earlier thought I had
[18:47] <racarr> if the shell needs something like that for
[18:47] <racarr> every setter on msh::Surface
[18:47] <racarr> then perhaps the shell should be implementing
[18:47] <racarr> msh::Surface
[18:47] <kdub> oh indeed :)
[18:47] <kdub> i thought thats where we're heading
[18:47] <kgunn> racarr: yeah, i think mterry had been thinking for greeter like shell (internal mir client)...but after a chat with robert
[18:47] <racarr> kdub: Eh 50/50 ;)
[18:47] <kdub> or rather, it sholud get a msh::Surface-like interface
[18:48] <kgunn> racarr: it seems like mterry is going to just be able to be a regular client
[18:48] <kdub> we will probably want to keep a 'switchboard' class inbetween
[18:48] <racarr> kgunn: Ok. Great :)
[18:48] <racarr> kdub: right.
[18:48] <kgunn> racarr: yeah...so even if its confusing...bottom line...less work for you i think :)
[18:49] <kdub> directing the signals between 'shell cares' and 'shell doesn't care' to the 'new class' we're takling about and the rest of the mir system respectively
[18:50] <racarr> kgunn: I think I get it now. I think I had just misinterpreted something earlier and thought this had already happened
[18:51] <racarr> kgunn: Went through gerry with the major shell items left/dandrader about OSK I think there are only 2 that are blocking for the next while so im hoping to get proposals today
[18:55] <kgunn> racarr: awesome ! thanks...those are our collective #1's on the shell-mir integration....its great to see it coming together
[20:30] <xjunior> hey, switch back to X for a while should be just comment out unity from 10-unity-system-compositor.conf, right?
[20:32] <kgunn> xjunior: yep...http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/debug_for_xmir.html
[20:33] <xjunior> kgunn: XMir is a little slow lately, and I would need X for a few days. Uncommenting that is just crashing when initializing lightdm
[20:34] <xjunior> it initializes, then gives me a popup saying it's going to start in low graphics mode
[20:34] <kgunn> xjunior: hmmm - honestly i have never heard of that causing an issue for anyone....
[20:34] <smspillaz> behold your first non-toolit non-demo client http://i.imgur.com/9Heamzv.jpg
[20:34] <smspillaz> *toolkit
[20:34] <kgunn> might wanna file a bug and share your logs
[20:34] <xjunior> kgunn: is there an automated way of doing it?
[20:37] <kgunn> xjunior: not really...
[20:37] <kgunn> xjunior: i gotta run...
[20:40] <xjunior> so, X starts to fail with the following:
[20:40] <xjunior> "LoadModule: "dri2""
[20:40] <xjunior> "Module "dri2" already built-in
[20:40] <xjunior> "
[20:40] <xjunior> then unloads a bunch of methods and crashes
[20:40] <xjunior> boom, that's it
[20:41] <xjunior> it works with XMir, though
[20:41] <kgunn> bregma: robert_ancell  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mir/+bug/1203070
[20:41] <xjunior> kgunn: is thet for me?
[20:42] <kgunn> xjunior: no sorry :)
[20:42] <xjunior> no worries ;) I wish it was
[20:42] <xjunior> I have a intel card, btw
[20:42] <kgunn> too many conversations :)
[20:43] <tvoss> xjunior, I'm working on the slowness issue
[20:43] <xjunior> that's fine :) It means people are testing it a lot
[20:57] <kdub> smspillaz,  cool
[20:57] <racarr> smspillaz: Oh yay it works
[20:59] <kgunn> bregma: invited you just if you wanted to join...totally optional
[21:04] <tvoss> smspillaz, ping
[21:04] <smspillaz> racarr: I told raof I made a bet with you that I would get the mir client finished and working (my definition of working: I can navigate to play a video, hence I can conveniently leave out keyboard input) before my project supervisor starts reviewing the wayland stuff
[21:04] <smspillaz> so I made a bet with you
[21:04] <smspillaz> mmkay
[21:05] <xjunior> tvoss: that's nice. What's the actual issue?
[21:06] <tvoss> xjunior, I'm deep in debugging the damage extension right now, but it's caused by some weird interaction in xmir-window.c
[21:06] <smspillaz> tvoss: pong
[21:06] <tvoss> I'm currently compiling an xserver that reverts http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/commit/?id=8d7b7a0d71e0b89321b3341b781bc8845386def6 which caused hassle elsewhere, too
[21:07] <tvoss> xjunior, https://gerrit.chromium.org/gerrit/#/c/474/1/x11-base/xorg-server/files/1.9.3-no-damage-report.patch
[21:07] <tvoss> smspillaz, hey there :) how goes?
[21:07] <tvoss> smspillaz, nice work on the xbmc stuff :) did you get it to work with Mir, yet?
[21:07] <xjunior> tvoss: nice!! is there an URL where I can see the xmir-window.c file?
[21:07] <xjunior> more for curiosity than anything
[21:08] <tvoss> xjunior, I'm working with the source package from the system compositor testing ppa
[21:08] <smspillaz> tvoss: see the image I just posted :p
[21:08] <smspillaz> no input yet but that's pretty easy, just need to copypasta
[21:08] <smspillaz> the xkbcommon stuff
[21:08] <tvoss> smspillaz, sorry, not in my scrollback :)
[21:09] <bschaefer> smspillaz, awesome :), also hello!
[21:09] <smspillaz> tvoss: http://i.imgur.com/9Heamzv.jpg suprise!
[21:09]  * tvoss wonders if he can pledge for a second edge
[21:09] <xjunior> are you getting a ubuntu edge?
[21:10] <tvoss> yup
[21:10] <racarr> tvoss: You should switch to marketing
[21:10] <tvoss> racarr, why is that?
[21:10] <racarr> "Pledge for a second edge"
[21:10] <racarr> it rhymes and everything
[21:10] <tvoss> yeah, now that you say it:)
[21:10] <xjunior> Really loved the design. The price is a little salty to get it in Brazil (it would get additional 90% taxes)
[21:10] <racarr> you just have to imagine an athlete saying it over a gingle
[21:11] <racarr> and then drinking a bottle of gatorade
[21:12] <tvoss> smspillaz, \o/
[21:12] <smspillaz> tvoss: though to be fair xbmc is pretty easy to port
[21:12] <smspillaz> once you avert your eyes
[21:12] <smspillaz> to the #define kludge
[21:12] <smspillaz> that is CWinEvents
[21:12] <smspillaz> and then also all of the
[21:12] <smspillaz> IInterfaces
[21:13] <tvoss> okay, wuick logout
[21:14] <racarr> I came up with a way to implement the latest input workaround purely in unity/platform API rather than having to make a new kind of event filter in Mir!
[21:14] <racarr> the audience can hold
[21:14] <racarr> their applause
[21:15] <smspillaz> tvoss: the mir client api is a little odd to work with at the moment, but it was better than the dlopen'ing some function that uses varargs because the client interfaces are autogenerated and can't be looked up at runtime
[21:15] <smspillaz> (in wayland)
[21:16] <tvoss> smspillaz, odd in what respect?
[21:17] <smspillaz> tvoss: its a bit hard to explain all in one session
[21:18] <tvoss> smspillaz, yup, feel free to file some bugs
[21:19] <smspillaz> tvoss: trust me, its better than that : https://github.com/smspillaz/xbmc/blob/5903875e5904c9174be6d9a82a6638817628f2be/xbmc/windowing/WaylandProtocol.h
[21:20] <tvoss> smspillaz, heh :)
[21:23] <tvoss> xjunior, running a test-case now, might take some time :)
[21:29] <xjunior> cool man, hope you get it :)
[21:29] <xjunior> do you do some sort of automated performance test?
[21:30] <tvoss> xjunior, it's not performance, somewhere an update gets lost
[21:30] <xjunior> gotcha
[21:30] <tvoss> anyway, time for bed :)
[21:30] <tvoss> I'm on it, will give you an update tomorrow
[21:33] <kdub> robert_ancell, ping
[21:33] <robert_ancell> kdub, hello
[21:59] <robert_ancell> RAOF, some good feedback on the X patches!
[22:39] <robert_ancell> RAOF, Is lightdm 1.7.2-0ubuntu2 stuck in the -proposed queue?
[22:44] <robert_ancell> 1.7.6-0ubuntu2 rather
[23:18] <RAOF_> robert_ancell: Maybe?
[23:21] <RAOF_> robert_ancell: Not that I can see?
[23:22] <robert_ancell> RAOF, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm says it's been in proposed for 8 hours
[23:48] <RAOF> robert_ancell: It's probably blocked waiting on autopilot tests?
[23:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, it doesn't have any..
[23:49] <RAOF> ...
[23:49] <racarr> test_shell_control_of_surface_configuration.cpp
[23:49] <RAOF> It might cause a retrigger of _other_ autopilot tests?
[23:49] <racarr> acceptance test files are hard to name
[23:50] <thomi> I'm no expert, but I believe that it'll wait in proposed until the entire stack is known to be good
[23:50] <thomi> which means *all* the tests passing, for all projects
[23:51] <thomi> this is done to avoid half-broken stacks being pushed to distro
[23:51] <thomi> but this is all Didiers stuff, so I could well be wrong
[23:51] <RAOF> That seems unnecessarily brutal?
[23:54] <thomi> RAOF: not really
[23:54] <bschaefer> thomi, that could be true, as there is a failing test in power pc thats blocking a release atm :(
[23:54] <thomi> RAOF: once you release into distro, *everyone* gets it
[23:54] <thomi> RAOF: and if you break the desktop, hordes of angry geeks on horseback surround your house
[23:55] <RAOF> I mean, you should be able to be more granualar; a failing unity test shouldn't block everything


[01:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Preparing packages
[01:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Successfully built
[13:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Preparing packages
[13:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Successfully built
[16:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Preparing packages
[17:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- renatofilho, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1643 Successfully built
[17:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Failed to build (xenial/qtmir). Needs rebuild due to new commits (yakkety/unity8). Successfully built (vivid/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, vivid/indicator-keyboard, vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles, vivid/qtubuntu, vivid/qtubuntu-gles, vivid/ubuntu-system-settings, vivid/unity-api, vivid/unity8, xenial/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir-gles, xe
[22:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Preparing packages
[22:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Failed to build (xenial/qtmir). Needs rebuild due to new commits (yakkety/unity8). Successfully built (vivid/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, vivid/indicator-keyboard, vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles, vivid/qtubuntu, vivid/qtubuntu-gles, vivid/ubuntu-system-settings, vivid/unity-api, vivid/unity8, xenial/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir-gles, xe
[23:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Currently building (vivid/unity8, xenial/unity8, yakkety/unity8). Failed to build (xenial/qtmir). Successfully built (vivid/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, vivid/indicator-keyboard, vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles, vivid/qtubuntu, vivid/qtubuntu-gles, vivid/ubuntu-system-settings, vivid/unity-api, xenial/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir-gles, x
[23:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Currently building (xenial/unity8). Failed to build (xenial/qtmir). Successfully built (vivid/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, vivid/indicator-keyboard, vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles, vivid/qtubuntu, vivid/qtubuntu-gles, vivid/ubuntu-system-settings, vivid/unity-api, vivid/unity8, xenial/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu,
[23:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx ltinkl, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1575 Failed to build (xenial/qtmir). Successfully built (vivid/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, vivid/indicator-keyboard, vivid/qtmir, vivid/qtmir-gles, vivid/qtubuntu, vivid/qtubuntu-gles, vivid/ubuntu-system-settings, vivid/unity-api, vivid/unity8, xenial/gsettings-ubuntu-touch-schemas, xenial/indicator-keyboard, xenial/qtmir-gles, xenial/qtubuntu, xenial/qtubuntu-gles, xenial/ubuntu-
[23:57] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Elleo, https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1628 Preparing packages


[14:12] <racarr_> http://hintjens.com/blog:85 was an interesting but kind of wordy read while waiting for branch to compile "As I've explained, a living software product will usually deliver a mix of draft, stable, legacy, and retired contracts. Rather than try to assign a "major.minor.patch" version number to the overall mix, to indicate stability and maturity, it is more sensible to list the contracts explicitly in th
[14:12] <racarr_> e living code (on git master)."
[16:53] <alan_g> greyback: the spike we spoke about: https://code.launchpad.net/~alan-griffiths/qtmir/spike-using-WindowManager
[19:50] <tedg> kgunn, <infinity> tedg: Can you ask a Mirish person where the source for test_data/lib$(arch).so is?
[20:02] <tedg> racarr_, Do you by chance know? ^


[01:44] <cyphermox> bjf: could you run 'sudo grub-install --verbose /dev/sda1' on that system where you saw the failure? it may tell us more about why it's unhappy
[03:22] <bjf> cyphermox, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/23083835/
[08:28] <Odd_Bloke> Do we have a finger-in-the-air estimate of when 4.6 will land?  (Days or weeks?)
[08:36] <apw> Odd_Bloke, i think that is in negative territory atm, it actually tried once, but i'd say 1 week not 3 weeks
[08:49] <Odd_Bloke> apw: Cool, thanks. :)
[09:25] <tjaalton> is there a command to clean up old kernels?
[09:26] <apw> tjaalton, if they are installed "normally" then apt-get remove --purge should be killing them off
[09:26] <tjaalton> normal yeah, if you mean autoremove that only removed one of them
[09:27] <tjaalton> on this machine there are still 43 left :)
[09:27] <apw> tjaalton, if you have been "naughty" and installed things by hand, you can give the manual ones back to autoremove with: sudo apt-mark auto `apt-mark showmanual '^linux-(headers|image|image-extra|cloud-tools|tools)-[0-9]'`
[09:28] <tjaalton> this is my sisters' machine, so normal upgrades.. I'll give that a go thanks
[09:28] <apw> tjaalton, i wonder then how they ended up manual, which they i think must be to avoid the new autoremove magic, well unless it is precise or something
[09:29] <tjaalton> trusty
[09:29] <apw> that should definatly work correctly (in theory :))
[09:30] <tjaalton> yeah, I've seen this elsewhere too
[09:35] <apw> yeah i think it may well be that we added it in trusty and it did not do anything to grandfather in old kernels or something
[12:31] <tjaalton> well, looks like on my xenial install only linux-image-extra-* are getting autoremoved
[12:54] <apw> tjaalton, hrm, cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01autoremove-kernels
[12:54] <apw> can you pastebin that
[13:00] <tjaalton> apw: http://pastebin.com/xggDPuL5
[13:00] <tjaalton> I removed them by hand
[13:14] <Sarvatt> tjaalton: purge-old-kernels :D
[13:14] <tjaalton> oh
[13:15] <tjaalton> it'll happily remove linux-generic tho
[13:15] <tjaalton> and other metapackages, and the kernel I haven't booted into yet
[13:15] <tjaalton> so, seems kinda broken :)
[16:48] <ricotz> smb, hi, will there be a 4.4.19 based xenial kernel-ppa-build available this week?
[16:49] <smb> ricotz, rather no as that will be part of the next cycle which starts next week
[16:52] <ricotz> smb, hmm, I see


[11:59] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::platform:: Seed more swift stuff @ http://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/+git/platform/commit/?id=feaee037f5eb11d2e2c0b2d60b7d8ca8af4c0109 (by Dimitri John Ledkov)
[22:26] <bluesabre> swifty
[23:02] <Unit193> Everything look good?
[23:23] <bluesabre> Haven't looked at anything in a few days... been busy with work
[23:24] <bluesabre> Have I missed anything around here?
[23:26] <Unit193> Hope not, I've been a bit busy this week.


 Fwd from iDubno: Never underestimate vans
 I noticed in the latest RC update there is an "NFC" option in System Settings now. Is there any app or command line function that can take advantage of this?
 Also - in latest RC automatic brightness is now working correctly for Volla Phone - thanks for this update!
[02:24] <ubptgbot> Christian TABARO was added by: Christian TABARO
[03:23] <ubptgbot> rajendraprasaddash was added by: rajendraprasaddash
 @TotalSonic [I noticed in the latest RC update there is an "NFC" option in System Settings no …], https://gitlab.com/Danfro/unfc
[04:34] <ubptgbot> ا was added by: Jezaa Aldehani
 librem 5 still $800 ?
 @ampasK0p1 [librem 5 still $800 ?], It would be better to ask in a Purism forum, or look at puri.sm
 Why do people ask these here? I can't understand :/
 @UniversalSuperBox [It would be better to ask in a Purism forum, or look at puri.sm], thanks
 (Photo, 473x1024) https://irc.ubports.com/kqJMFNqb.png My bold step fetched me this joy. And I am still getting more.. Thank you to this wonderful opportunity from COINSTATIONS BITCOIN MINING.. … https://cut.ly/FD7Lm4
[08:48] <ubptgbot> Layla Lamb was added by: Layla Lamb
[09:00] <ubptgbot> balavbk was added by: balavbk
 @Fuseteam [<reply to media>], Try nano
[09:25] <ubptgbot> <Layla Lamb> [musk-twetterus.us](https://bit.ly/3s1yd3n) … GOOOOD! ELONNN AIRDROPPPPP!!!
 GOOOOD! ELONNN AIRDROPPPPP!!!
 GOOOOD! ELONNN AIRDROPPPPP!!!
 Whoops, thought this was the overflow channel
 Lol
 @amyosx [Try nano], Nevaaa
 Sed
 @amyosx [Sed], Btw that trick does work
 @amyosx [Sed], [Edit] Btw the trick in the screenie does work
 Hello, I managed to build halium-boot and system.img for xiaomi mi note pro. Then installed rootfs edge tarbal and system.img with halium-install but when i try to ssh, i get permission denied. Any ideas?
 (Photo, 1280x720) https://irc.ubports.com/2WTgqPjO.png
 If i dont install system img and rootfs, telnet is fully functional
[11:14] <ubptgbot> <Geld - internet-landlords.xyz> @rigaslitsas [Hello, I managed to build halium-boot and system.img for xiaomi mi note pro. The …], https://phoenixnap.com/kb/ssh-permission-denied-publickey
[11:15] <ubptgbot> <Geld - internet-landlords.xyz> @rigaslitsas [Hello, I managed to build halium-boot and system.img for xiaomi mi note pro. The …], https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/ssh-won-t-login-permission-denied-publickey-password
[11:15] <ubptgbot> <Geld - internet-landlords.xyz> Not Ubuntu Touch related, but might help.
 Ok thanks
 @Geld - internet-landlords.xyz [https://phoenixnap.com/kb/ssh-permission-denied-publickey], i mean in this case he is prompted for a password.....
[11:29] <ubptgbot> <Geld - internet-landlords.xyz> Oh right
 @Geld - internet-landlords.xyz [Oh right], nice lukesmith ref :D
 @Geld - internet-landlords.xyz [Oh right], [Edit] nice luke smith ref :D
[11:34] <ubptgbot> <Geld - internet-landlords.xyz> (Sticker, 512x288) https://irc.ubports.com/K2dRZcZm.webp
 @TotalSonic [I noticed in the latest RC update there is an "NFC" option in System Settings no …], there is unfc, and i compiled a qt app
 the qt example apps work
 Qt NFC Examples | Qt NFC 5.15.3 … https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/nfc-examples.html
 here was the first post on the forum (ignore first install steps as is in dev now)
 https://forums.ubports.com/topic/4954/testing-nfc-for-halium-9-ports?_=1618057786045
 then in app dev i think he posted a p2p nfc app?
 Fwd from fredldotme: For those interested in getting ready for NFC P2P communication, I've prepared a little sample application for y'all: https://github.com/fredldotme/ut-nfcd-p2p-demo … Remember: it's leaky, it's very simplified, but it gets the point across. PR's welcome. :)
 Is there a port for ubuntu touch for the sony xperia 10 plus?
 @iDubno [Is there a port for ubuntu touch for the sony xperia 10 plus?], Yup
 Where?
 https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/kirin/
 Should work on the 10 Plus as fair as I know
 Does that include the plus model?
 I guess try and see?
[15:57] <ubptgbot> Abduallahi Abeysinghe was added by: Abduallahi Abeysinghe
[16:40] <ubptgbot> <Abduallahi Abeysinghe> [tweet-musk-elonTS.io](https://bit.ly/3uCwrHy) … OMMG guys. Musk airdrop crypto👌👌👌
 @mateosalta [then in app dev i think he posted a p2p nfc app?], Thanks for bringing it up. I would prefer to have some explorers dabble in NFC land, find the last remaining issues before we release it in OTA-17.
 @fredldotme [Thanks for bringing it up. I would prefer to have some explorers dabble in NFC l …], i plan on trying more soon :)
 Perfect! :)
 hope to make a pure - pass on the url app, should be easy i did something similar with a phone number that just calls open url extarmally
 [Edit] hope to make a pure - pass on the url app, should be easy i did something similar with a phone number that just calls open url externally
 maybe some full screen graphic to indicate tag tapping
[18:05] <ubptgbot> Paperimike was added by: Paperimike
 hi please can someone tell me if it is possible to install ubuntu touch on samsung galaxy note 4?  Thank you
 It's possible at least for some models : https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/trlte/
 [Edit] It's possible at least for some models: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/trlte/
 hi people!
 [Edit] hi people! I want to take a responsiblity for UBPorts Turkey
[19:08] <ubptgbot> <Marlon Escobar> (Sticker, 512x512) https://irc.ubports.com/xnboGWYE.webp
[19:29] <ubptgbot> dohniks was added by: dohniks
 @UniversalSuperBox about the cardav wip stuff you just mentioned ... is there a link or other reference you can throw out to the world?
 "someone could port it" @fredldotme *blink* *blink* 😉
 @UniversalSuperBox Cosmo Communicator!
 I forgot my credientials for hwpplayer1 on forum could you please reset it ?
 (and if I was asked for the most heavy phone that runs UT that is probably Unihertz Titan)
 Parents turned router off. Gn ig lmao
 Nice parking to you all
 [Edit] Nice talking to you all
 "Take On Me" O
 [Edit] "Take On Me" O M G
[21:15] <ubptgbot> aironz Siiskonen was added by: aironz Siiskonen
 @TotalSonic ["Take On Me" O M G], TOM
 now i can't unsee that gg steven
 [Edit] now i can't unsee that, gg steven
 Not sure if Marius and Florian have singing careers if this UBports things doesn't work out - but at least they're putting in the effort :P
 eh? they are?
 are you guys still in the after party?
 @Fuseteam [eh? they are?], they were singing "Take On Me" at the very start of the UBports Q&A today, lol
 oh lmao
[21:45] <ubptgbot> Subhajit1032000 was added by: Subhajit1032000
[22:07] <ubptgbot> <aironz Siiskonen> [https://musk-eIon.pw](https://bit.ly/3wLCIm3) … Magically! MuskkkEIonn givvving bitcoin-and-Ethereum!!!!!!
 (Sticker, 512x485) https://irc.ubports.com/vcp9gtZ1.webp
 @dohbee
 hmm this pr doesn't build lemme drop some of my commits … rebases and pushes … github: great time to close it :)
[23:47] <ubptgbot> Hisham was added by: Hisham
 Hello guys