[18:33] <pmatulis> did we have a meeting today?  if so, i missed it by an hour by following my calendar
[18:40] <dsmythies> pmatulis: Yes, we had the meeting.
[18:40] <pmatulis> dsmythies: damn, i need to look at the calendar and see what went wrong
[18:57] <pleia2> dsmythies: nice job with the meeting!
[18:58] <pleia2> pmatulis: meeting log/minutes here: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting-2/2015/ubuntu-meeting-2.2015-01-06-17.31.moin.txt
[19:00] <pleia2> also, time zones are hard on humans, I showed up for a meeting 1 hour early yesterday :D
[19:02] <pmatulis> i can't seem to put an event in UTC in google calendar.  so frustrating
[19:02] <pleia2> pmatulis: use Iceland, UTC and no DST :)
[19:03] <pleia2> I do that for all UTC meetings I add to Goog cal
[19:03] <pleia2> (yesterday I just couldn't read calendars, because Monday)
[19:05] <pmatulis> pleia2: wow ok, iceland it is
[19:32] <pmatulis> pleia2: fixed the calendar, thanks
[19:32] <pleia2> \o/
[19:50] <dsmythies> pleia2: Thanks for the comment. I was away from my desk.


 Installed it
[05:01] <Kilos> once the zero command has run
[05:01] <Langjan> Now its hanging in the terminal on CD
[05:01] <Kilos> hasnt it done the job?
[05:02] <Langjan> I got to the first d of the second dev and it stopped there
[05:02] <mazal> bbl , updates
[05:03] <Kilos> oh my
[05:03] <Kilos> what second device
[05:03] <Langjan> will have to reboot again
[05:03] <Kilos> wait
[05:03] <Kilos> there is only one drive in there
[05:03] <Kilos> ??
[05:03] <Langjan> no second device, the second "dev" in the command you sent
[05:04] <Kilos> oh my
[05:04] <Langjan> only one drive as far as I know
[05:04] <Kilos> ok try again
[05:04] <Langjan> ok
[05:13] <Kilos> Langjan  whats happening
[05:14] <Langjan> OK it says 1+0 records in, 1+0 records out, 512 bytes copied 254kB/s
[05:15] <Kilos> cools now its wiped
[05:15] <Kilos> now listen mooi
[05:15] <Kilos> dont do things as i type them
[05:16] <Langjan> can't listen mooi in two tales
[05:16] <Kilos> lol
[05:16] <Kilos> restart with dvd still in and choose install
[05:16] <Kilos> then choose use entire disk
[05:16] <Kilos> then go with you normal install method
[05:17] <Kilos> let ubuntu do everything
[05:17] <Kilos> you just put your info and passwords etc
[05:17] <Kilos> the bios will rewrite a new mbr
[05:18] <Langjan> You want to tell me it wiped clean in a second?
[05:18] <Kilos> yip
[05:18] <Langjan> Amazing stuff!
[05:18] <Kilos> very powerful command
[05:19] <Langjan> Can we use it on the population?
[05:19] <Kilos> lol
[05:20] <Kilos> now there is really nothing more on the drive left over from other installs
[05:21] <Kilos> so if prob continues then we repartition it and dont use the first 30 or 50g
[05:21] <mazal> waat maak julle ? Klink gevaarlik
[05:21] <Kilos> zero n skyf
[05:21] <mazal> dd ?
[05:21] <Kilos> ya
[05:21] <mazal> ish !!!!
[05:22] <Langjan> Kilos it is showing a split screen
[05:22] <Kilos> hymm...
[05:22] <Langjan> maybe restart again? Could my installation CD be haywire?
[05:22] <Kilos> not normally
[05:23] <Kilos> restart again
[05:23] <Langjan> ok
[05:24] <Kilos> you can use the checkdisk option but dvds dont normally get corrupt so easy
[05:25] <Langjan> I restarted without CD, Ubuntu is still there
[05:25] <Kilos> choose erase and install again
[05:25] <Kilos> entire disk
[05:26] <Langjan> Ok, I thought the disc is wiped clean...restarting on CD
[05:27] <Kilos> ya disk was clean booting from cd shows what the os installs into memory
[05:28] <Langjan> What I dont understand is that Ubuntu booted normally after disc was wiped
[05:29] <Langjan> from hard drive
[05:29] <Kilos> wipe it again
[05:29] <Kilos> actually lets do two things
[05:30] <Kilos> boot from cd
[05:30] <Kilos> run gparted
[05:30] <Langjan> ok booting
[05:30] <Langjan> from try ubuntu?
[05:30] <Kilos> ya
[05:31] <Langjan> is gparted a terminal command and no sudo?
[05:31] <Kilos> type gparted in the dash thing
[05:31] <Kilos> it should be on the cd
[05:31] <Langjan> ok
[05:32] <Langjan> just waiting for boot to complete
[05:32] <Kilos> ok
[05:32] <Kilos> i need to start other pc so i can see gparted
[05:33] <Langjan> shows dev sda 1,2 and 5
[05:34] <Kilos> click on each and the tick partition at the top i think then choose erase
[05:39] <Kilos> not erase it shows delete
[05:39] <Kilos> sorry had to install gparted on other machinr=e first
[05:41] <Langjan> No prob, now it shows 231Gb unallocated and two small partitions, 1,7Gb each, one is extended and one swap
[05:41] <Langjan> both with keys that seem to indicate locked
[05:42] <Kilos> delete them as well
[05:42] <Kilos> you want to see only one
[05:43] <Langjan> It does not give a delete optin on these
[05:43] <Kilos> what info is on them?
[05:44] <Kilos> maybe thats where your bug is hiding
[05:44] <Kilos> you should be able to delete everything and just see one unused partition
[05:45] <Langjan> OK I have deleted them all now it shows 233GB unallocated
[05:45] <Kilos> click on gparted and choose refresh
[05:45] <Kilos> yay
[05:46] <Kilos> now close gparted and only have terminal open
[05:46] <Langjan> ok done
[05:46] <Kilos> ok now the dd command
[05:47] <Langjan> ok
[05:47] <Kilos> i dont trust myself to type it out, i put it on a stick and then copy paste from there
[05:49] <Langjan> ok done
[05:49] <Kilos> ok now leave the cd in and restart and choose install
[05:50] <Kilos> then in options choose use entire disk
[05:50] <Langjan> fine
[05:56] <Langjan> Looking good, no detected operating systems
[05:57] <Kilos> yay
[05:59] <Langjan> The old man is getting confused, caught mself trying to type the new pasword into xchat, lmga
[06:00] <Langjan> OK Kilos, baie baie dankie! I will complete install and install home from backup, everything will hopefully be fine, will let you know
[06:00] <Kilos> lol
[06:01] <Kilos> ok Langjan  you welcome as always
[06:01] <Kilos> good luck
[06:03] <Langjan> Many thanks. Have I sent you the book "Healing Life's Hurts" to read? Its the guy who owns the laptop who does the ministry.
[06:03] <Kilos> ty so much
[06:03] <Langjan> Will email it now, have a lovely day
[06:04] <Kilos> you too my friend and ty
[06:40] <Kilos> sigh! the old peeps work while the young ones lurk
[07:27] <Kilos> môre Mopkop
[07:35] <Mopkop> Goeie môre!
[07:40] <gremble> o/
[07:45] <Langjan> Kilos and the guys who helped, many thanks.
[07:46] <Langjan> The machine is running at cpu usage of 10% (previously 90%) - what are sensible warning temperatures for the temp, core temp and cpu temp?
[07:46] <Langjan> Sorry previously 60%
[07:47] <Kilos> Langjan  is it ok now?
[07:47] <Kilos> that sounds much better hey
[07:48] <Kilos> hi gremble
[07:48] <Kilos> Langjan  tell me how you are sensing temps and ill tell you mine
[07:50] <Langjan> temp 1 is 45, core 1 is 44, core 2 is 43  but where should I set warnings at?
[08:01] <Kilos> http://askubuntu.com/questions/432895/temperature-warnings
[08:02] <Kilos> hope that helps.
[08:02] <Kilos> i cant find what they should be set at
[08:06] <Langjan> Thks Kilos. If I change the wording to "quiet" to omit splash screen, how do I save the changes and exit the terminal?
[08:07] <Kilos> let me go read that first
[08:15] <Kilos> ok Langjan  is psensor running in a terminal
[08:16] <Kilos> sorry i was so slow got called to #ubuntu-africa
[08:16] <Kilos> you may visit there , its a project im busy with
[08:20] <Kilos> if you want to kill it use ctrl+c
[08:21] <Kilos> im not sure where you are with the splash screen thing
[08:23] <Squirm> morning
[08:23] <Kilos> hi Squirm
[08:23] <mazal> Morning squirm
[08:24]  * mazal has never been able to get temp sensors working on Ubuntu
[08:24] <mazal> Kilos: You know how to do it ?
[08:24] <Kilos> http://superuser.com/questions/25176/how-can-i-monitor-the-cpu-temperature-under-linux
[08:25] <Kilos> and jan is using psensor
[08:32] <mazal> Ah , that manual works , dankie oom
[08:32] <Kilos> yw lad
[08:32] <mazal> psensor ?
[08:32] <mazal> Is that a different app ?
[08:32] <Kilos> yes its also in the repos
[08:33] <mazal> I see mine is hovering around 40
[08:33] <Kilos> lappy?
[08:34] <mazal> Nope , is an i7 desktop pc
[08:34]  * Kilos jealous
[08:48] <inetpro> Kilos: ai!
[08:48] <Kilos> ai! wat nou?
[08:48] <inetpro> your zeroing command does not wipe the whole drive
[08:49] <Kilos> it did here
[08:49] <inetpro> just the first 512 bytes
[08:49] <Kilos> but i didnt have bugs in locked partitions
[08:49] <Kilos> oh
[08:49] <Kilos> well with gparted and zero things seem to be working
[08:50] <inetpro> that's the MBR portion
[08:50] <Kilos> why didnt you tell me last night
[08:50] <inetpro> uh
[08:50] <Kilos> you leave me to sukkel
[08:51] <inetpro> you leave yourself to sukkel if you don't RTFS and RTFM
[08:51] <Kilos> in future i will use gparted first then zero then i know als is skoon ne?
[08:51] <Kilos> ai!
[08:51] <Kilos> i dont have manuals and stuff  here man i only have what has worked for me before
[08:52] <inetpro> google is your buddy
[08:52] <inetpro> and man is always there
[08:52] <Kilos> reading is an effort and understanding what im reading is a bigger effort
[08:52] <Kilos> good morning inetpro
[08:52] <inetpro> keep reading until you understand it
[08:52] <Kilos> how can you just greet me with an ai!
[08:52] <inetpro> don't just shoot in the dark
[08:53] <inetpro> ai!
[08:53] <inetpro> goeie more oom
[08:53] <Kilos> lol
[08:53] <Kilos> dag my boetie
[08:53] <inetpro> oh and good $daytime to everyone else
[08:54] <Kilos> lekker full channel so early hey
[08:54] <inetpro> is it Friday yet?
[08:54] <Kilos> nono tuesday only
[08:55] <Kilos> you just want weekends so you can get more tired
[08:55] <inetpro> ai!
[08:55]  * inetpro needs a weekend to recover from the monday
[08:55] <Kilos> you need mondays to recover from weekends
[08:59] <inetpro> no!! not mondays
[08:59] <Kilos> im so happy when you are here
[08:59]  * inetpro needs the week to recover from a weekend
[09:00] <Kilos> now i just need to get my fly back
[09:02] <Kilos> the end justifies the means
[09:02]  * inetpro needs to scratch mondays from all calendars
[09:04] <Kilos> lol
[09:08] <Kilos> hi psyatw
[09:08] <psyatw> hi Kilos
[09:08] <Kilos> nice to see that again
[09:09] <psyatw> I am a bit more relaxed now, also at work
[09:09] <Kilos> good
[09:10] <Kilos> you guys being unhappy makes me unhappy because this channel suffers
[09:18] <Langjan> Kilos I do this edit in terminal but then don't know how to save the changes: http://askubuntu.com/questions/529244/how-can-i-disable-both-the-boot-splash-and-messages-during-boot
[09:19] <psyatw> yeah, at first I was quite busy with two months of training and after that I had to do a lot of work after my colleague left the company
[09:20] <Kilos> are you using gedit Langjan
[09:20] <psyatw> thankfully they've hired a few people now
[09:20] <psyatw> hi Langjan
[09:21] <Kilos> Langjan  i use nano instead of gedit because i could never work out how to save quit with it either
[09:21] <Kilos> hi Padroni
[09:23] <Kilos> with nano you use ctrl+o to save, hit enter then ctrl+x to quit
[09:25] <Kilos> https://help.gnome.org/users/gedit/stable/gedit-shortcut-keys.html.en
[09:25] <Kilos> Langjan  ^^
[09:32] <Kilos> Padroni  whats with the hopping?
[09:32] <Padroni> hi
[09:32] <Padroni> my connection is screwed
[09:32] <Kilos> lol
[09:32] <Kilos> looks like
[09:33] <Kilos> dont just sit there with a beer in hand man , fix it
[09:34] <Kilos> watched a whole thing on home brewing last night i think it was
[09:34] <Kilos> there is a new group that are making local homebrews for their area
[09:35] <Kilos> i love beer, its good for killing flames when braaing and seems to add flavour to the meat
[09:35] <Kilos> but very yucky to drink unless 90% lemonade
[09:36]  * Kilos has a question for old boere type peeps
[09:37] <Kilos> why did they use those big round white roof nails in the old days
[09:37] <mazal> Seals better
[09:37] <Kilos> commonly know as boerepampoen
[09:37] <mazal> Oh , those
[09:37] <Kilos> lol
[09:38] <mazal> My first thought would be , wind
[09:39] <Kilos> i dont know thats why im asking , is it that pumpkin needs a certain time to mature or something
[09:57] <Kilos> hi drussell  hows davey today
[09:58] <Kilos> hi magellanic
[09:58] <Kilos> and magespawn
[09:58] <magellanic> hey
[09:59] <magespawn> hi there all
[09:59] <magespawn> Kilos 41 in the room
[09:59] <Kilos> yeah
[09:59] <Kilos> strange for a midweek morning hey
[09:59]  * Kilos happy
[10:04]  * drussell waves to Kilos
[10:24] <mazal> Bye for now everyone , enjoy the afternoon , God bless
[10:27] <Kilos> hi pieter_devel
[10:28] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[10:28] <pieter_devel> Hi
[10:28] <pieter_devel> ... and thanks
[10:28] <Kilos> how did you find us?
[10:29] <pieter_devel> Long story trying to fix IRC... but in end LOCO site
[10:30] <Kilos> if you need help just state your problem and someone will advise you when they get a break
[10:30] <pieter_devel> Thanks will do
[10:30] <Kilos> jy kan ook in die taal se waarmee jy hulp nodig het
[10:31] <pieter_devel> Sal so maak, my afr suck maar
[10:32] <Kilos> english is good too
[10:32] <Kilos> i thought you were afrikaans thats why i said its ok too
[10:33] <pieter_devel> I am, was just educated somewhat weirdly so my afr spelling is actually the thing that is bad
[10:34] <Kilos> not a problem at all, the important thing is to get pc probs sorted out
[10:34] <Kilos> soos jy sien is daar heelwat mense hier. en ons is amper dag en nag hier
[10:36] <Kilos> this is an english channel because some of the guys dont know afrikaans at all, but when we get afrikaans peeps here we help them too
[10:36] <pieter_devel> Met die IRC prbleem het ek op ou IRC log van 2012 afgekom
[10:37] <Kilos> ok
[10:37] <pieter_devel> Daar het jy, Kerbero en inetpro met 'n open proxy probleem gehelp
[10:37] <pieter_devel> ... so sal dalk nou-nou hul help met iets gou vra
[10:38] <Kilos> voel vry om te vra
[11:31] <inetpro> pieter_devel: don't ask to ask, just ask
[11:31] <inetpro> welcome to #ubuntu-za anyway
[11:35] <pieter_devel> inetpro: Thanks, I cant join a freenode network thru my ISP - keep getting blocked because port 8080 is an open poxy...
[11:36] <pieter_devel> ...I so far disabled my zentyal (server) proxy, but seems that prob is with ISP...
[11:37] <pieter_devel> ... they use RouterOS with proxy enabled and from what I can gather they should just block port 8080 for external requests...
[11:37] <pieter_devel> Is this correct?
[11:41] <pieter_devel> Oh and the ISP is like a community shared internet provider so my external IP is their machine (no public IP)...
[11:42] <pieter_devel> ...and running `nmap -p8080 <IP>` also shows that it is an open proxy
[11:49] <Kilos> hi jacques_  wb
[11:50] <Kilos> lol was wondering if you gave up arguing
[11:50] <Jacques_StrY> Hey everyone
[11:50] <Jacques_StrY> good to be back
[11:50] <Kilos> all ok ?
[11:50] <Jacques_StrY> Yea don't worry
[11:50] <Kilos> cool
[11:51] <Jacques_StrY> so what happend while I was gone?
[11:51] <Kilos> hmm...
[11:51] <Kilos> youll need to ask someone that remembers
[11:52] <Kilos> i think Padroni  was looking for you
[11:53] <Jacques_StrY> I can imagine - Have some stuff I have to post with him
[11:53] <Kilos> lol
[11:53] <Kilos> he has been sulking
[11:54] <Jacques_StrY> haha
[11:54] <inetpro> pieter_devel: ouch!
[11:55] <pieter_devel> inetpro: ouch?
[11:56] <Jacques_StrY> inetpro: I see you going from membership :)
[11:56] <inetpro> open proxy not good
[11:57] <Padroni> good heavens
[11:57] <Padroni> it's alive
[11:57] <Padroni> hi Jacques_StrY
[11:57] <Kilos> hehe
[11:57] <Jacques_StrY> Hey Padroni >.<
[11:57] <inetpro> pieter_devel: https://freenode.net/policy.shtml#proxies
[11:58] <inetpro> Jacques_StrY: I'm not exactly ready with my application just yet
[11:58] <Langjan> Hi Kilos
[11:58] <inetpro> too many other priorities in my life
[11:58] <Kilos> hi Langjan
[11:58] <Langjan> not good news
[11:59] <Kilos> hanging?
[11:59] <Langjan> looks to me like the cpu is not coping
[11:59] <Kilos> eish
[11:59] <Langjan> error message on first restart
[11:59] <Kilos> it was working
[11:59] <Kilos> what did you do
[12:00] <Padroni> it sounds like your charger needs a new laptop?
[12:00] <Jacques_StrY> haha
[12:00] <Kilos> lol
[12:00] <pieter_devel> inetpro: read it... so should contact freenode to lift the ban once fixed?
[12:01] <Kilos> hi lin
[12:01] <Langjan> well the restart/shut down button did not work so I powered off
[12:01] <Kilos> pieter /j #freenode
[12:01] <inetpro> pieter_devel:  email to: support at freenode dot net
[12:01] <Kilos> they are very helpful
[12:01] <inetpro> or like Kilos said ^^
[12:02] <Langjan> then haywire again, cursor flashing, cpu showing 100%, lost launcher
[12:03] <Kilos> sjoe Langjan
[12:03] <lin> hi Kilos
[12:04] <Langjan> Some of the error message reads: indicator-sound-service crashed with SIGABRT
[12:04] <Langjan> does that mean anything?
[12:04] <lin> Whats' up Langjan ? What made your computer lock up?
[12:04] <Kilos> not too me but the clevers will know
[12:06] <Langjan> Theres a lot in the report, dont know what they need
[12:07] <Kilos> try get it onto a stick or something then with your pc put it all in http:slexy.org
[12:07] <Kilos> http://slexy.org
[12:07] <pieter_devel> OK thanks
[12:08] <Kilos> good luck pieter_devel
[12:08] <Kilos> and you can stay here
[12:09] <Langjan> was the slexy message meant for me?
[12:09] <Kilos> sorry Langjan  yes
[12:10] <inetpro> Kilos: you don't like http://bin.snyman.info/ ?
[12:10] <Kilos> they read in the errors and find stuff we have nightmares about
[12:10] <Kilos> inetpro  it doesnt wrap when there are long lines
[12:10] <inetpro> superfly: ^^
[12:11] <inetpro> is that a bug or a feature?
[12:11] <Kilos> i use it for short line things
[12:12] <Langjan> Kilos I could do nothing with the error report except hit "continue" then it obviously went off to nowhere and disappeard from the screen
[12:12] <Kilos> is the lappy still running though?
[12:13] <Kilos> maybe inetpro  can find them
[12:13] <Langjan> Its running but only just, with the cpu at around 100% I'm scared to touch anything
[12:13]  * inetpro unfortunately can't help now
[12:14] <Kilos> lemme google a bit
[12:15]  * inetpro can only give the usual grumpy commentary from time to time in between other work
[12:15] <Langjan> the open window is jumping sort-of getting bigger and smaller all the time - once per second
[12:15] <Kilos> that looks like a bug
[12:15] <Kilos> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/840986
[12:15] <kulelu88> oom Langjan send a screenshot
[12:19] <Langjan> Well kulelu88, the screen will appear normal on a shot, its just the open window and the cursor blinking all the time, but launcher icons not responding
[12:19] <Kilos> Langjan  12.04 or 14.04
[12:19] <Kilos> ?
[12:21] <Langjan> 14.04
[12:21] <Kilos> hmm...
[12:22] <Kilos> ok whe you cleaned it out did you actually get to the cpu fan?
[12:22] <Kilos> when
[12:22] <Kilos> i dont know if they are on top of the cpu in lappies
[12:23] <Langjan> I removed the fan to see if theres any dirt on the inside and underneath, it was surprisingly clean as was the rest of the innards
[12:24] <Kilos> ok i was hoping it was blocked
[12:24] <Kilos> the pc worked so something else is interfering i think
[12:24] <kulelu88> it may be a faulty Mobo
[12:25] <Kilos> ya but why
[12:25] <kulelu88> unless. if the PC is 32-bit and you installed 64-bit
[12:25] <Langjan> whats a Mobo? No all 32 bit
[12:25] <Kilos> motherboard
[12:26] <Kilos> info
[12:26] <Kilos> do lappies have 2 batteries?
[12:26] <Kilos> the big one and one for the mobo bios when big one out?
[12:27] <kulelu88> no oom they dont
[12:27] <Kilos> so how come bios remembers stuff when big one is out?
[12:28] <kulelu88> maybe there is a small capacitor that holds some charge
[12:28] <Kilos> Langjan  give the lappy make and model please
[12:29] <Langjan> proline w76s
[12:30] <Jacques_StrY> All the lappies I have opened had a 3v BIOS battery
[12:30] <Kilos> thats what i want to find
[12:31] <Kilos> find that battery Langjan
[12:32] <Kilos> after working fine this morning then starting with this it could be a bug in the bios even
[12:33] <Kilos> flashing bios is kinda tricky
[12:33] <Kilos> Langjan  try run gparted on it
[12:34] <Kilos> you might need to install it first
[12:34] <Kilos> lets see what partitions are there i think
[12:34] <Langjan> Ok will try but no response at present anywhere
[12:35] <Kilos> then remove the battery and try find the small one
[12:35] <Kilos> remove that too let bios start from scratch again
[12:36] <Kilos> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehbvzeU2Eh8
[12:36] <Kilos> maybe that shows where it is
[12:36] <pieter_devel> What's wrong with langjan's lappy
[12:36] <Kilos> it hangs or goes crazy
[12:37] <Kilos> thern cpu use goes to 100% etc
[12:37] <Kilos> was at 10% this morning
[12:37] <pieter_devel> Have you guys checked cpu temp?
[12:37] <pieter_devel> Ubuntu scales cpu down on overhead
[12:38] <Kilos> ya he was
[12:38] <Kilos> help him pieter_devel  please
[12:38] <Kilos> hear what has been done and what we missed
[12:39] <pieter_devel> but you have checked the temp?
[12:39] <Langjan> around 60 deg
[12:39] <Kilos> ya was 45
[12:39] <Kilos> whew 60 now
[12:40] <pieter_devel> and what is the max according to specs?
[12:41] <Kilos> it was
[12:41] <Kilos>  temp 1 is 45, core 1 is 44, core 2 is 43
[12:42] <Langjan> temp 1 and both cores curreently around 60 deg
[12:42] <Kilos> this morning, what changed
[12:42] <Kilos> and what is running Langjan  ?
[12:43] <Langjan> Skype, psensor
[12:43] <Kilos> kill skype and watch temps
[12:43] <Langjan> skype only showing, not running
[12:44] <Kilos> so basically nothing is running?
[12:44] <Langjan> no
[12:44] <Kilos> something very wrong there
[12:45] <Kilos> for those temps you should be streaming videos and running music and more i think
[12:46] <Langjan> Kilos I'm going to install his Home folder in my machine which I seldom use until I can sort this one out
[12:46] <Langjan> will check that cmos battery
[12:46] <Kilos> ok remove the sick ones batteries
[12:47] <Langjan> yes and cpu running at around 100%
[12:47] <Kilos> leave it for some hours while you work on yours
[12:47] <pieter_devel> maybe stupid q, but can you hear/feel the cpu fan running?
[12:47] <Langjan> yes I can hear it
[12:48] <Langjan> and feel warm air coming out
[12:48] <Kilos> pieter_devel  add this channel to your favourites so you can help often
[12:48] <Kilos> hehe
[12:48] <pieter_devel> Is the stream strong?
[12:49] <Langjan> not very
[12:49] <pieter_devel> Kilos: actually my first time on IRC so will have to check that later
[12:49] <Langjan> difficult to judge first time
[12:49] <pieter_devel> And you took it apart to clean it?
[12:50] <Langjan> mine feels weaker strem but cooler
[12:50] <Langjan> stream
[12:50] <Langjan> yes I cleaned out everywhere I could reach but very little dust
[12:51] <pieter_devel> Where you able to check if the fan turns freely?
[12:51] <pieter_devel> easily?
[12:51] <Langjan> yes it does, spins wildly if I blow on it
[12:53] <kulelu88> oh shit. I hope you didn't conk the fan
[12:54] <pieter_devel> bummer, had a similar issue few years ago so - fan was the prob, so asked to check if it might be here too
[12:55] <Langjan> It was disconnected when I did that, could that cause damage?
[12:56] <kulelu88> making the fan spin too fast can cause friction and damage, ja.
[12:57]  * Mopkop fell asleep...
[12:57] <Mopkop> Langjan: What does your hardrive use? PIO or DMA?
[12:58] <Mopkop> If it uses PIO, it could explain the cpu usage.
[12:58] <Kilos> i go pump water
[13:02] <Langjan> I have no idea, where do I find out?
[13:03] <Mopkop> Are you using windows or linux?
[13:03] <Langjan> linux
[13:05] <Mopkop> Ok check the following file /etc/hdparm.conf
[13:06] <Mopkop> I use gedit so I whould type sudo gedit /etc/hdparm.conf
[13:07] <Langjan> battling to get terminal open
[13:07] <Mopkop> Lol... :)
[13:08] <Langjan> sorry not responding
[13:09] <Mopkop> Aai... Have you tried to reset the bios yet?
[13:09] <Langjan> Reset to default, yes
[13:09] <Mopkop> Hmm, then it has to be the drivers.
[13:10] <Mopkop> Have you tried <alt><ctrl>F2?
F7 to get back out.
[13:12] <Langjan> ok I get a welcome to Ubuntu message
[13:13] <Mopkop> Now you just type in the ubuntu username and after that the password.
[13:15] <Langjan> OK I get error: XDG_RUNTIME_DIR not set in the environment
[13:15] <Mopkop> Hmm....
[13:16] <Langjan> then gedit :27185 Gtk warning cannot open display
[13:17] <Mopkop> No no, try to replace gedit with nano
[13:17] <Mopkop> sudo nano /etc/hdparm.conf
[13:17] <Langjan> ok
[13:19] <Mopkop> Did you manage to read the file?
[13:20] <Langjan> Yes Mopkop, long story way above my head
[13:20] <Langjan> What can I let you see?
[13:21] <Mopkop> lol :), ok scroll down to the bottom line. What do you see?
[13:21] <Langjan> #/dev/hda
[13:22] <Langjan> mult_sect_io = 16
[13:22] <Langjan> write_cache = off
[13:22] <Langjan> dma = on
[13:23] <Mopkop> Yes, that's what we want. Now let's make a backup of the file. Press <ctrl>+o, and add a .bak to the end of the file name
[13:23] <Mopkop> and save.
[13:24] <Mopkop> save as /etc/hdparm.conf.bak
[13:24] <Langjan> how do I save it?
+o, type your new name (/etc/hdparm.conf.bak) and press enter
[13:26] <Langjan> OK I said yes to save under different name, hope thats right?
[13:26] <Mopkop> Yes!
[13:27] <Mopkop> Now just exit nano <ctrl>x
[13:27] <Mopkop> And open the file again sudo nano /etc/hdparm.conf
[13:29] <Langjan> ok done
[13:29] <Mopkop> now at the bottom of the file, type in the following....
[13:29] <Mopkop> /dev/hda {
[13:29] <Mopkop>         dma = on
[13:29] <Mopkop> }
[13:31] <Langjan> sorry cant find that symbol, the kinky bracket
[13:31] <Mopkop> next to P - you must hold down shift.
[13:31] <Mopkop> :)
[13:32] <Langjan> thks
[13:32] <Mopkop> Pleasure :)
[13:32] <Langjan> must dma go in a new line?
[13:33] <Mopkop> Hmm... not sure just do it to be safe.
[13:33] <Mopkop> O, and make a space between hda and {
[13:34] <Langjan> done, must I enter?
O to save
[13:34] <Mopkop> and the enter
[13:34] <Langjan> ok
x to exit, and then just restart.
[13:35] <Langjan> power off to restart?
[13:35] <Mopkop> sudo shutdown -r
[13:36] <Mopkop> Let's hope this worked, and did not break it further :P
[13:36] <Kilos> lol
[13:37] <Langjan> time expected Try 'shutdown --help' for more info
[13:37] <Mopkop> sudo shutdown -r 0
[13:37] <Mopkop> I forgot the o
[13:37] <Mopkop> 0
[13:38] <Langjan> reboooting
[13:38] <Mopkop> In windows you have to delete the HD driver to fix it.
[13:39] <Langjan> ok viva linux
[13:41] <Langjan> no difference, windows still erratic, launcher not there, no buttons
[13:41] <Mopkop> Ubuntu or Kubuntu?
[13:41] <Mopkop> Is it still slow?
[13:42] <Langjan> cursor arrow blinking every second
[13:42] <Mopkop> Ugh....
[13:42] <Langjan> cant really say, nothing is working, no menu buttons
[13:42] <Mopkop> When you were in the terminal with <alt><ctrl>F2, was it still very slow?
[13:43] <Langjan> terminal responded normally
[13:44] <Mopkop> Hmm, a problem with compiz or xserv  then?
[13:44] <Mopkop> try to go back into the terminal and type sudo top
[13:45] <Langjan> ok where do I go?
[13:46] <Mopkop> Is the top program open now?
[13:46] <Langjan> yes
[13:47] <Mopkop> In the right most coulomb, try to find Xorg and compiz
[13:48] <Mopkop> I think there was an easy way to do this.
[13:48] <Langjan> trying bit a long list
[13:51] <Langjan> found xorg, it keeps jumping around
[13:52] <Mopkop> If you don't find compiz it is possible that you are not running Ubuntu.
[13:53] <Mopkop> Kubuntu uses something else, I believe.
[13:53] <Langjan> well I stopped at xorg, can go looking for compiz but will losexorg
[13:54] <Mopkop> Is the laptop connected to the internet.
[13:54] <Langjan> Running ubuntu 14.04
[13:54] <Langjan> yes
[13:54] <Mopkop> Am... Let's see. Have you tried sudo apt-get install --reinstall ubuntu-desktop?
[13:55] <Mopkop> tap q to exit top
[13:55] <Langjan> no
[13:56] <Mopkop> That command reinastalls all the programs that originally came with ubuntu.
[13:56] <Mopkop> But it takes a lot of data.
[13:56] <Mopkop> Maybe...
[13:56] <Mopkop> Does your computer enter the login screen normally?
[13:57] <Langjan> what do you mean by normally? No grub menu. shows splash screen which I was trying to eliminate
[13:58] <Langjan> dpkg was interrupted
[14:00] <Mopkop> Hmm... ai. Do you have windows installed on it, or is it only Ubuntu? What splash screen is that?
[14:00] <Mopkop> Sorry, was sleeping when you explained it :(
[14:01] <Langjan> Ubuntu, I followed dpkg prompt, now its running
[14:02] <Mopkop> Let it finnish installing and restart.
[14:03] <Langjan> ok thks
[14:03] <Mopkop> My pleasure. Let's just hope this works.
[14:04] <Mopkop> If it doesn't the problem is most likely some config file.
[14:06] <Langjan> I applied this - could it have contributed to the problem? http://askubuntu.com/questions/529244/how-can-i-disable-both-the-boot-splash-and-messages-during-boot
[14:07] <Langjan> ok finished, must I still do reinstall desktpo?
[14:07] <Langjan> desktop
[14:07] <Kilos> Langjan  was it still running fine after this mornings install? until you did that
[14:07] <Langjan> yes
[14:07] <Kilos> then you broke it
[14:07] <Kilos> hehe
[14:08] <Kilos> Mopkop  loves doing that too
[14:08] <Langjan> Well I let it go to the original config when it asked me just now
[14:08] <Kilos> but he be very clever
[14:08] <Kilos> can you remember what you changed?
[14:09] <Kilos> old saying "leave well enough alone"
[14:09] <Kilos> spalsh screens arent hard on the eyes
[14:09] <Kilos> splash either
[14:10] <Langjan> yes what I changed it to but not what it was, however it would probably be right again after the last run
[14:10] <Kilos> lets see
[14:10] <Kilos> is it rebooting?
[14:10] <Mopkop> hmm, if you applied that then you can just reverse it, by retracing your steps. Can you please explain to me the problem in detail. I only followed half-way through :(
[14:11] <Kilos> Mopkop  was hanging
[14:11] <Kilos> we delted all partitions and zeroed mbr then reinstalled
[14:11] <Kilos> and it was ok then
[14:12] <Mopkop> And then the problem came back?
[14:12] <Kilos> im not sure if that above link messed something up
[14:12] <Kilos> ou oom Jan like nie splash screens nie
[14:13] <Langjan> I followed the instructions in the site (see the link above) to avoid the splash screen on startup
[14:13] <Langjan> Its not my machine, makes it worse, its one of my Ubuntu converts
[14:13] <Langjan> ok now I have memtest options on startup
[14:13] <Mopkop> Is dit nou daai ding wat sê Ubuntu 14.04 *kolletjie, kolltejie kolletjie? Die splash ek meen?
[14:14] <Langjan> must I just open Ubuntu?
[14:14] <Kilos> just enter
[14:15] <Kilos> that menu should boot automatically after 10 secs
[14:15] <Langjan> dis bladsye van wit letters op die skerm vooor die program oopmaak en ook by afsluiting
[14:16] <Kilos> that is most likely grub showing you what it is doing
[14:16] <Langjan> Yes but its not booting
[14:16] <Kilos> should show some (ok) at the end near the end
[14:16] <Langjan> ja e weet, bootrepair from CD
[14:16] <Kilos> does it take long in places?
[14:16] <Kilos> lol
[14:17] <Kilos> watch it for a bit
[14:17] <Kilos> ubuntu tries to fix things itself
[14:17] <Kilos> what is in the last line where its sukkeling
[14:17] <Langjan> It keeps on going back to the grub screen
[14:18]  * Mopkop is not following
[14:18] <Kilos> oh wait
[14:18] <Kilos> its lightdm thats not happy
[14:18] <Kilos> ctrl+alt+F3
[14:18] <Langjan> its Ubuntu, then advanced options, then memtest, then memtest serial console 115200
[14:19] <Kilos> you can go advanced options
[14:19] <Langjan> ctrl+alt+f3 does nothing
[14:19] <Kilos> and then recovery
[14:19] <Kilos> ai!
[14:19] <Kilos> F2 and F1?
[14:20] <Mopkop> So you can't enter Ubuntu now?
[14:20] <Langjan> tried the other one, recvery looks promising
[14:20] <Kilos> ctrl+alt+F1
[14:20] <Kilos> im sure its lightdm
[14:20] <Langjan> now I have 9 options
[14:20] <Mopkop> I think grub only gives limited options.
[14:20] <Mopkop> in the terminal I mean
[14:20] <Kilos> you just need to get to a terminal and run sudo apt-get install gdm
[14:22] <Langjan> resume, clean, dpkg, failsafex, fsck, grub, network, root, system-summary
[14:22] <Kilos> try root
[14:22] <Kilos> hopefully you can install gdm from there
[14:23] <Langjan> drop to root shell prompt?
[14:23] <Kilos> ya
[14:23] <Langjan> resume =resume normal boot
[14:23] <Kilos> drop to root shell prompt
[14:24] <Kilos> you toppies should learn to use kubuntu
[14:24] <Langjan> now it wants a command
[14:24] <Kilos> apt-get install gdm
[14:24] <Langjan> didnt like it
[14:24] <Kilos> ai!
[14:25] <Kilos> what did it say?
[14:25] <Langjan> error
[14:26] <Kilos> lets see what it does with dpkg commands
[14:26] <Langjan> not using locking for read only lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock
[14:26] <Kilos> dpkg --reconfigure -a
[14:26] <Kilos> i might have that wrong
[14:26] <Langjan> then unable to write to var/cache/apt/
[14:27] <Kilos> ai!
[14:27] <Langjan> then could not be parsed or opened
[14:27] <Kilos> what kind of root is that
[14:27] <Langjan> you told me to go there
[14:27] <Mopkop> I don't think apt-get works in grub's shell. It says something about limited functionality. Most of the programs haven’t  been loaded yet.
[14:27] <Kilos> ok go with the recovery thing
[14:27] <Kilos> i think that ends with a terminal
[14:28] <Kilos> we just need to get to a terminal
[14:28] <Langjan> iit says root@kobus-w7xos:#
[14:28] <Langjan> we are in a terminal
[14:29] <Kilos> i mean a later one where apps are already there
[14:29] <Kilos> that root seems to be too early
[14:29] <Kilos> and playing in root can screw things bad
[14:30] <Langjan> so where do I go now?
[14:30] <Kilos> where are you
[14:30] <Langjan> where you took me
[14:30] <Langjan> root
[14:30] <Kilos> go out there now
[14:30] <Kilos> im sorry
[14:30] <Kilos> reboot
[14:30] <Langjan> no prob, how do I get out?
[14:30] <Kilos> then choose recovery
[14:31] <Kilos> hold the kill button
[14:31] <Kilos> hard reboot
[14:32] <Kilos> that error when it keeps going to the grub menu is a prob with lightdm and installing gdm fixes it
[14:32] <magellanic> hmm
[14:32] <magellanic> looks intense
[14:32] <Kilos> very
[14:33] <Kilos> i had it a couple of times with unity
[14:33] <Kilos> 1 year of peace with kde
[14:34] <Langjan> so do I go to resume normal boot now?
[14:34] <Langjan> dpkg is repair broken packages
[14:34] <Kilos> try now
[14:34] <Kilos> ctrl+alt+F2
[14:37] <Langjan> ok its boooted and looks good, cpu 14% and temps coming down to the 40's
[14:37] <Kilos> yay
[14:37] <Langjan> did not go ctrl+alt+F2
[14:37] <Kilos> now reinstall some stuff
[14:38] <Kilos> sudo apt-get install aptitude
[14:38] <Langjan> like what?
[14:38] <Langjan> ok
[14:38] <Kilos> oh and synaptic
[14:39] <Kilos> tell me when done
[14:39] <Langjan> he wont use synaptic but perhaps I will need it when I help him
[14:39] <Langjan> done
[14:40] <Kilos> ok open synaptig
[14:40] <Kilos> k
[14:40] <Kilos> type in the small top window ubuntu-desktop
[14:41] <Langjan> have only done aptitude
[14:41] <Kilos> oh sudo aptitude install synaptic
[14:42] <Langjan> installing from software centre
[14:42] <Kilos> ai!
[14:42] <Kilos> thats so slow
[14:42] <Kilos> i dont like software centre at all
[14:43] <Kilos> synaptic much nicer and faster
[14:43] <Langjan> done
[14:43] <Kilos> ok open synaptic
[14:44] <Langjan> ok ive typed ubuntu desktop
[14:45] <Kilos> ubuntu-desktop
[14:45] <Kilos> dont forget the dash in between
[14:45] <Langjan> yes, done with hyphen
[14:45] <Kilos> oh is that what it is
[14:46] <Kilos> ok then on all the things that show installed with a blue colour i think
[14:46] <Kilos> right click and choose reinstall
[14:46] <Langjan> you can call it what you want, stays a hyphen - same as with k..ff.r
[14:46] <Kilos> lets see if it wants to fetch more
[14:46] <Kilos> lol
[14:48] <Kilos> we forgot the most important things but synaptic can do it too
[14:48] <Langjan> Miles my day is running out, are there more urgent things to be done?
[14:48] <Kilos> just tick reload in the top left
[14:49] <Kilos> then when done choose edit at the top and mark all upgrades
[14:50] <Langjan> and then?quite a few
[14:50] <Kilos> if there are then the apply button will light up
[14:50] <Kilos> just choose apply
[14:50] <Langjan> 225 meg
[14:50] <Kilos> wow
[14:50] <Kilos> half that system isnt updated yet
[14:51] <Kilos> didnt you do sudo apt-get update and sudo apt-get upgrade after installing
[14:51] <Langjan> yes I did
[14:52] <Kilos> whew i wonder what all the extras are then
[14:52] <Langjan> and upddate mgr
[14:52] <Kilos> must be something thats needed or synaptic wouldnt show them
[14:53] <Kilos> if you tick details while its running you can see what it is fetching
[14:53] <Langjan> gibberish to me
[14:54] <Kilos> nee man lees mooi
[14:54] <Kilos> you will see packages
[14:54] <Kilos> oh
[14:54] <Langjan> lib soomethind and some linux image things
[14:54] <Kilos> tick on edges and stretch it wider
[14:54] <Kilos> all the important stuff
[14:55] <Langjan> then generic and headers
[14:55] <Kilos> and its not overheating?
[14:55] <Langjan> dan luislange
[14:55] <Kilos> or hanging
[14:56] <Langjan> running around 50 deg
[14:56] <Kilos> ya python stuff is what keeps everything going
[14:57] <Langjan> daai pel van jou dink as ek op die waaier stof afblaas ek sal hom beskadig...
[14:57] <Langjan> ok thats done
[14:57] <Kilos> ek blaas my hele pc met n compressor skoon
[14:57] <Langjan> nog ets?
[14:58] <Kilos> ok in top type in lightdm
[14:58] <Langjan> ja dis baie meer wind as wat 'n ou man kan genereer, al gebruik ek die agterkant...
[14:58] <Langjan> lmga
[14:58] <Kilos> right click reinstall
[14:58] <kulelu88> if you don't hold the fan in place and blast air onto it, the fan will spin too fast and break
[14:58] <Kilos> ya you cant run it till it screams and pops
[14:59] <Kilos> i hold one blade and then blow dust away
[14:59] <kulelu88> ya just like that
[14:59] <Langjan> OK kulelu88 I accept that, will remember
[14:59] <Kilos> but often let them scream too to show whose the boss
[15:00] <kulelu88> if it's a PC, just buy a new fan. it's not expensive (I think)
[15:00] <Kilos> its a lappy
[15:00] <Langjan> well it seems fine, not noisy and coling oki
[15:00] <Langjan> coooling
[15:00] <Langjan> cooling
[15:00] <Langjan> need a spellchecker
[15:00] <Kilos> i must get some old ones so i can see how the insides fit together
[15:01] <kulelu88> jy kan in jou eerste taal praat oom Jan.
[15:01] <Langjan> I have opened their seals and put soem good oil in, works
[15:01] <Kilos> prolong is the best
[15:01] <Langjan> Dankie ek kry sooibrand van al die Ingels
[15:01] <Kilos> lol
[15:02] <Langjan> hype that is
[15:02] <Kilos> hoeoh ja lmga
[15:02] <Kilos> ek het dit al vergeet
[15:02] <Langjan> prolong is snake oil
[15:02] <Kilos> wbb gotta get gates
[15:03] <Langjan> Got to go guys, sorry but thks very much for your time and able help
[15:03] <kulelu88> jy moet weet dat even though oom Kilos praat afrikaans, hy is a Engelse man.  This morning the dominee called me from Cape town, needing help with the Wi-Fi on Win8. It's easy to fix it if you have the computer in front of you, but hard if he has to tell you what is (isn't) there.
[16:08] <Kilos> ya
[16:08] <Kilos> very difficult
[16:09] <Kilos> luckily i battled with unity till some stuff stuck im my subconscious
[16:24] <kulelu88> that's the tough part about knowing tech. Everyone thinks you're tech support :D
[16:26]  * psyatw is tech support
[16:26] <kulelu88> welcome psyatw
[16:26] <kulelu88> you look new B-)
[16:27] <Kilos> lol he has just been away while moving to another country and find accomodation and work
[16:27] <Kilos> sometimes psydroid
[16:27] <psyatw> kulelu88, thank you :)
[16:27] <psyatw> I may look new but I can assure you I am not
[16:27] <psyatw> unless I was reborn
[16:27] <psyatw> :D
[16:31] <Kilos> http://thinkonbytes.blogspot.com/2015/03/a-tablet-with-ubuntu-preinstalled-ubutab.html
[16:31] <Kilos> that i could go for
[16:32] <Kilos> or an ubuntu fone
[16:32] <Kilos> these android things are maddening
[16:51] <Jacques_StrY> I would buy that
[16:52] <Jacques_StrY> still using a galaxy tab 10.1
[16:52] <Kilos> sjoe
[16:52] <Kilos> big bucks though
[16:52] <Jacques_StrY> my tab was R6500 so .....
[16:53] <Kilos> you can built a great pc for that money
[16:53] <Kilos> wow
[16:53] <kulelu88> psyatw: where do you live now?
[16:53] <Jacques_StrY> with taxes that UbuTab will be about the same
[16:53] <kulelu88> for R6500 you can pick up an i7 (methinks)
[16:53] <Kilos> get someone to buy it there and ship as a present
[16:55] <Kilos> i just need a 1155 i5 or i7 cpu then im smiling
[16:55] <Jacques_StrY> The thing is I always get the stuff on contract
[16:55] <Kilos> aha
[16:55] <Kilos> save
[16:55] <kulelu88> works out more expensive
[16:56] <Jacques_StrY> I pay the same on contract than if I bought it cash and got data with it so does not make sense to pay cash for it.
[16:56] <kulelu88> aah. now that makes sense
[16:57] <Jacques_StrY> They overcharge on cash sales to promote the contracts
[16:59] <Kilos> i go eat
[16:59] <Jacques_StrY> k
[16:59] <Kilos> kulelu88  he is in ireland
[16:59] <kulelu88> Jacques_StrY: only problem is being locked in for 24 months
[16:59] <kulelu88> congrats psyatw . you were brave enough to relocate :D
[17:08] <psyatw> kulelu88, thanks :) I am always willing to relocate in europe, the continent is so small compared to yours :D
[17:11] <psyatw> ok, time to go home now
[17:11] <psyatw> I will be back from there
[17:17] <kulelu88> compared to ours? I thought psy was south African
[17:18] <Mopkop> Is inkscape the same as Corel Draw?
[17:24] <Kilos> he is from netherlands then belgium i think before going to island
[17:27] <Kilos> ireland
[17:27] <Kilos> on the island
[17:44] <Jacques_StrY> Mopkop: Roughly yes
[17:46] <Kilos> evening superfly
[17:47] <Mopkop> Ok, thank you Jacques_StrY!
[18:32] <superfly> hi
[18:32] <Maaz> superfly: By the way, Kilos on freenode told me "tell superfly Beautiful" 12 hours, 50 minutes and 44 seconds ago
[18:32] <Kilos> wb psydroid
[18:33] <psydroid> ty Kilos
[18:33] <Kilos> haha the bot caiught me, id forgotten about it
[18:33] <psydroid> hi superfly
[18:33] <superfly> Kilos: did you refresh thw page a few times?
[18:33] <superfly> *the
[18:34] <Kilos> oh no
[18:35] <Kilos> what do you think, i like the first one
[18:36] <superfly> Mopkop: I don't get asked to do tech support anymore. I last used Windows XP, and I make sure people know this. They stop asking.
[18:36] <Kilos> lol
[18:37] <superfly> Kilos: refresh a few more times
[18:37] <Kilos> ok
[18:38] <superfly> Kilos: and, I don't know which ones you've seen. They're completely random, I have nothing to do with the order in which you see them.
[18:38] <Kilos> oh
[18:38] <Mopkop> Lol, I often get requests for xp too! Virusses the redirects google to some weird IP.
[18:39] <Kilos> old kasbah in the sahara desert is nice i think superfly   which do you prefer
[18:40] <superfly> Kilos: I don't know
[18:40] <Kilos> others are also good, but imaging that old place wired up with fiber
[18:40] <superfly> Kilos: but it doesn't matter, they're all going to stay
[18:40] <Kilos> oh cool
[18:41] <Kilos> i could enjoy looking out my window with a view from that old kasbah place
[18:42] <Kilos> superfly  i have a map of africa that names all the countries, dont know if you could use it, pro said something about right
[18:44] <Kilos> rights
[18:47] <Kilos> aw ive lost it
[18:47] <Kilos> inetpro  fix it
[18:48] <Kilos> we were thinking it would help when you tell someone you are from south africa they dont ask what country is that in
[18:55] <Kilos> superfly  http://pbrd.co/1GkeMVY
[18:57] <superfly> "Windhoek" is spelled wrong
[18:58] <Kilos> lol
[19:01] <Kilos> maybe thats how germans spell it
[19:01] <Kilos> inetpro  ping
[19:01] <Kilos> hi magespawn
[19:01] <Kilos> achtung dammit inetpro
[19:02] <Kilos> now hell say he has a life as well
[19:02] <Kilos> oh after ai! of course
[19:02] <magespawn> good evening
[19:03] <Kilos> hows magespawn  this evening
[19:05] <magespawn> got home a bit late for me, but good otherwise, and you?
[19:06] <Kilos> im good ty just over worked and under paid
[19:06] <Kilos> hehe
[19:06] <captine> evening all
[19:06] <Kilos> hi captine
[19:09] <magespawn> hi captine
[19:09] <captine> hi there
[19:10] <magespawn> so had that cryptowall malware earilier this week
[19:10] <captine> soo tired chaps.  might doze off in front of the screen
[19:10] <magespawn> my boss thinks we can still recover the files
[19:10] <Kilos> np captine
[19:10] <Kilos> dont fall of chair
[19:10] <captine> lying in bed
[19:10] <Kilos> eish magespawn
[19:11] <magespawn> if your head is one the keyboard you might type something like fpsduihfgipaurfgaweipyfm[wMKCVAOIJWEO[fk
[19:11] <magespawn> Kilos: the files have been encrypted with RSA-2048 bit
[19:11] <Kilos> i dont even know what that is magespawn
[19:12] <Kilos> is the RSA za related?
[19:13] <Kilos> http://www.malwarekillers.com/how-to-decrypt-cryptodefense-files/
[19:14] <Kilos> http://www.malwarekillers.com/recover-files-encrypted-cryptowall-cryptodefense/
[19:14] <Kilos> did that thing encrypt them
[19:18] <Kilos> oh i looked up the RSA thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_numbers
[19:20] <Kilos> my poor browser has over 30 tabs open
[19:24] <kulelu88> I still haven't played minetes :(
[19:24] <Kilos> ThatGraemeGuy  hasnt been online i been keeping an eye out for him
[19:25] <Kilos> maybe he is on leave
[19:29] <magespawn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_%28cryptosystem%29
[19:35] <Kilos> sjoe heavy stuff hat for ballies
[19:35] <Kilos> that
[19:42] <kulelu88> many clever ballies write the most powerful encryption stuff
[19:43] <magespawn> https://www.digicert.com/TimeTravel/math.htm
[19:43] <Kilos> sjoe
[19:43] <magespawn> now that is interesting
[19:44] <Kilos> you need grumbles for that
[19:46] <kulelu88> encryption is too complicated from the beginning. would be cool if it was simplified at the beginner level
[19:47] <Kilos> lol
[19:47] <kulelu88> I tried a course from coursera, shit got confusing
[19:49] <Kilos> wb Langjan
[19:49] <Kilos> did it break again?
[19:51] <Langjan> Hi Kilos, its running fine thks, just the boot sequence, starts with options for Ubuntu, select recovery mode, then select specific version, then select normal boot and then final selection. So you have to select four times before it finally boots.
[19:51] <magespawn> it is all just maths
[19:52] <Kilos> do you have to chose one or does it boot if you hit enter
[19:53] <Langjan> No you have to choose every time, first time I've seen that
[19:53] <Kilos> oh ive never seen that
[19:53] <Kilos> klideas
[19:54] <Kilos> something in grub is messed up
[19:54] <Langjan> If you dont it comes back to the original options
[19:55] <Kilos> something in /etc/default/grub is messed up i think
[19:56] <Kilos> look at that file on your machine
[19:56] <Kilos> see what is different
[19:59] <Kilos> sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[20:00] <magespawn> sudo vim
[20:00] <Kilos> no man magespawn
[20:02] <magespawn> Pandorni was stuggling with the uuid at boot?
[20:02] <Kilos> ya but boot-repair fixed it i think
[20:02] <magespawn> not sure if that is the correct spelling of his nick
[20:03] <Kilos> ballies like us cant do vim
[20:03] <Kilos> padroni
[20:03] <magespawn> there is the option in grub to not pass that to the linux kernel at boot
[20:03] <magespawn> yup that is it
[20:03] <kulelu88> nano is easier to use than vim
[20:04] <Kilos> ya i enjoy nano
[20:05] <Kilos> the thing is guys it should not have to got through the menu manually
[20:05] <Kilos> go through
[20:05] <Kilos> top option should boot auto after 10 secs
[20:06] <Kilos> all i can think of is making grub same as a working machine
[20:06] <Kilos> oh Langjan  sudo update-grub
[20:07] <Kilos> and or sudo aptitude reinstall grub-pc
[20:15] <Langjan> OK thanks guys, the machine is back with its owner but I will try and let you know when I get my hands on it again.
[20:16] <Langjan> My grub does not show so no good trying to make it the same, but your commands should sort it Kilos?
[20:16] <Kilos> i am sure if you fiddle in /etc/default/grub you need to run sudo update-grub afterwards
[20:17] <Kilos> and grub-pc is the package
[20:17] <Langjan> I tried but it did not run
[20:17] <Kilos> what you mean your grub does not show?
[20:18] <Langjan> It just boots straight away
[20:18] <Kilos> the file /etc/default/grub must be there
[20:18] <Langjan> maybe shows so quick I don't see it?
[20:18] <Kilos> compare the 2 files if update grub and install grub-pc doesnt work
[20:19] <Mopkop> I paste my grub file into the bin. I think it is unaltered. So you can just compare it with yours: http://bin.snyman.info/p3ku5
[20:19] <Kilos> sudo nano /etc/default/grub
[20:19] <Langjan> Thks
[20:19] <Langjan> Is that to see it?
[20:19] <Kilos> yes
[20:20] <Kilos> thats also where you fiddled to kill splash
[20:20] <Langjan> thats right, burnt my fingers
[20:20] <Kilos> lol
[20:21] <Kilos> just compare that one with yours or Mopkop  s one
[20:21] <Kilos> as far as i understand the hash at line start stops that line from working
[20:21] <Kilos> no hash means active line
[20:22] <Langjan> So the sequence is to try your two commands, if it does not work then edit to be the same as mine?
[20:22] <Kilos> ya
[20:22] <Kilos> just make everything same
[20:22] <Kilos> no extra spaces or anything else
[20:22] <Langjan> contradicting...
[20:23] <Kilos> preaactly the same
[20:23] <Kilos> explain
[20:23] <Kilos> im contradicting?
[20:24] <Langjan> you say ya to "try your two commands and if it does not work then edit" then say just make everything the same
[20:24] <Kilos> yes try commands first
[20:25] <Kilos> if it doesnt work then make his grub file same as yours
[20:25] <Kilos> you getting me very involved in serious stuff you know oom
[20:26] <Langjan> That's why I keep young people around, they grew up with computers...
[20:27] <Kilos> ya thats where i learned everything ive forgotten
[20:27] <Kilos> actually funny being old
[20:28] <Kilos> my sis foned to have some settings in her blackberry sorted, and they eventually asked her isnt there some young person around
[20:28] <Mopkop> Better to use gedit and just copy-paste
[20:28] <Kilos> nano works fine with copy paste as well
[20:29] <Kilos> well paste actually, havent tried to copy from it i think
[20:29] <Mopkop> Really? Didn't realize.
[20:29] <Kilos> nano is very lekker
[20:30] <Langjan> Speaking of lekker, when last did you guys taste real Cape hanepoot?
[20:30] <Kilos> wew
[20:30] <Kilos> 40 years ago
[20:30] <Mopkop> Never, actually.
[20:30] <Kilos> nice sweet wine
[20:31] <Langjan> Well I brought some from George on the weekend, its so sweet it burns the palate...hmmmm - nooo, the grape in fresh form, no fermentation
[20:32] <Kilos> ya both are lekker
[20:32] <Kilos> i like sweet
[20:32] <Kilos> large green grapes
[20:33] <Langjan> not too large, very round
[20:33] <Kilos> oh
[20:34] <Langjan> Anyway, I need to get some sleep, want to watch the Proteas trying to break their choke tomorrow
[20:34] <Kilos> night Langjan  sleep tight
[20:35] <Kilos> lets hope ya
[20:35] <Mopkop> It's at 5:30 already... Ok then Lekker slaap oom!
[20:36] <Langjan> Thks Kilos, you also. Yes, my heart says the will make it, my bietjie verstand se hulle kom na more terug huistoe
[20:36] <Kilos> lol
[20:37] <Langjan> Lekker slaap jy ook Mopkop
[20:42] <Kilos> i go sleep as well. night all. sleep tight


[00:01] <mwhudson> sigh, i guess "ubuntu dev wants to get things done" "debian dev wants to play with new shiny" is a common thing?
[00:03] <mwhudson> infinity: i said this upstream, lmk if it sounds insane: https://github.com/golang/go/issues/7094#issuecomment-123911439
[00:06] <infinity> mwhudson: That's true, ish.  Except guess who thinks "gnueabihf" is "icky" and, thus, their GNU triplet doesn't match upstream?
[00:06] <infinity> mwhudson: (hint: RedHat)
[00:06] <mwhudson> infinity: oh god
[00:06] <mwhudson> what does theirs say?
[00:08] <infinity> mwhudson: Unless they've repented (would be nice to check a recent Fedora build), they were encoding it in the machine type instead, ie: armv7hl-linux-gnueabi
[00:09] <infinity> mwhudson: Which I told them repeatedly was ridiculous, since armv7l, the kernel machine type, can run both sf and hf binaries.
[00:09] <infinity> mwhudson: But... Whee?
[00:09] <mwhudson> argl
[00:09] <mwhudson> well how about i fix it for sensible systems and we see who complains
[00:09] <infinity> Sure.
[00:45] <infinity> doko: Does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/binutils/+bug/1477350 look familiar?  It broke in a security update, so I've poked sbeattie, but if you have any ideas, yay.
[04:50] <dragos> hi i want to make an custom ubuntu but i have an problem. how can i modify the installer menu like this one : http://listthemout.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/install-ubuntu.png
[05:00] <dragos> help me
[05:01] <sarnold> dragos: it's an awkward time; .us is done for the day, europe isn't awake yet
[05:02] <dragos> im in europe and im awake
[05:02] <Unit193> sarnold: So which one are you?
[05:03] <sarnold> Unit193: .us, west coast.. trying to put in another hour or two to get infinity off my back :)
[05:03] <sarnold> Unit193: how about you?
[05:03] <Unit193> Hah, nice!  And East coast, Ohio.
[05:03] <dragos> im europe, romania
[05:04] <sarnold> o! hi o!
[05:04] <dragos> im in europe, romania
[05:04] <sarnold> dragos: cool :D
[05:04] <dragos> what?
[05:04] <sarnold> dragos: romania looks beautiful
[05:04] <Unit193> I got it. :P
[05:04] <dragos> i know
[05:04] <dragos> if you look on the map it looks like a fish :D
[05:05] <sarnold> Unit193: sorry. my parents went to ohio state university, some things are ingrained deep :)
[05:06] <Unit193> Aha!  Nice, and yeah, shout "OH" and someone will complete it. :P
[05:06]  * sarnold tries something else
[05:06] <sarnold> The Stars At Night, And Big And Bright!
[05:09] <dragos> the sun
[05:12] <dragos> sweet dreams every1
[05:13] <dragos> bye
[05:15] <dragos> im back
[05:16] <sarnold> welcome back :)
[05:21] <dragos> i just installed the newest security updates to ubuntu 10.10
[05:23] <sarnold> dragos: note that 10.10 hasn't been supported for three years: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[05:23] <dragos> i know but im aking it suported
[05:23] <dragos> i know but im making it suported
[05:28] <dragos> hi
[05:48] <dragos> who remembers the ubuntu version "the perfect 10" or 10.10 ?
[05:57] <Noskcaj> Can someone please retry gimp in wily?
[05:57] <Noskcaj> The missing build-dep should be fixed by the new version of gegl
[05:58] <dragos> wily is ubuntu 15.04 or 15.10
[05:59] <Noskcaj> grimble_, 15.10
[05:59] <Noskcaj> oops, dragos ^
[05:59] <dragos> i have wily and and imp works like a charm
[06:00] <dragos> i have wily and and gimp works like a charm
[06:00] <didrocks> Noskcaj: done on amd64, let's see the result before kicking the others
[06:01] <Noskcaj> didrocks, ok. It will at least get further, since the build failure was from a missing dep in the gegl dev package
[06:02] <Noskcaj> dragos, This is for a version of gimp patched to work with the new gegl
[06:05] <dragos> who remembers ubuntu 10.10?
[06:07] <dragos> how can send an email to canonical ?
[06:11] <didrocks> dragos: http://www.canonical.com/about, look for "contact us"
[06:12] <didrocks> Noskcaj: amd64 successfully built! starting the other archs
[06:12] <dragos> thx m8
[06:26] <Noskcaj> ty didrocks
[06:27] <didrocks> yw
[06:28] <dragos> i have the biggest project EVER
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:24] <dragos> good morning
[07:48] <jhenke> hi folks. The recent 8.1 release of ownCloud server does not allow owncloud-client < 1.7 to sync files. I have filed bug 1477421 about this. Would you consider backporting owncloud-client from wily to odler releases to make it work again?
[08:15] <dbarth__> o/ hey there trainguards, i'm looking for a silo for line 66
[08:31] <sil2100> dbarth__: on it
[08:33] <cjwatson> dbarth__: (you wanted #ubuntu-ci-eng BTW)
[08:39] <flexiondotorg> ogra_, I see you are piloting today. May I kindly request you look at Ubuntu MATE packages please?
[08:44] <jhenke> anybody able to look into the issue I posted above?
[08:46] <dbarth__> oops wrong channel indeed
[08:48] <Laney> doko: you synced libvpx, which caused a transition - are you going to look at the rebuilds? :)
[09:47] <jhenke> hi, anybody able to look into bug 1477421? With the recent 8.1 release of ownCloud upstream requries owncloud-client to be at least 1.7, which currently only is true for wily. They dropped support for older version due to "technical difficulties". Is there a chance to backport the 1.8.1 client from wily to older releases to make it work out of the box with recent ownCloud server isntallations again?
[09:48] <rbasak> jhenke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBackports is the straightforward option. If you want an SRU then you'll need to get approval from the SRU team specifically, or quite possibly the Technical Board as it's a major version bump.
[09:49] <seb128> jhenke, you already asked earlier, and I already replied on #ubuntu-desktop that it makes sense, unsure what else you are looking for there
[09:49] <rbasak> (and agreed - it makes sense, but it will need an exception granted from the appropriate team)
[09:52] <jhenke> seb128 you said #ubuntu-desktop would not be the right place, so I was hoping this is the right place to rais this issue with someone who has the chance to work on it
[09:53] <jhenke> basically I am looking for a dev who is willing nad ha the time to do the next steps
[09:53] <seb128> jhenke, yeah, I also told you that the request made sense ... you can ask here, it's more ontopic, but everybody is busy and it's not likely that you find somebody to work on that through IRC pings
[09:54] <jhenke> too bad, I was hopeing that would work :(
[09:54] <seb128> you are welcome to work on the update yourself, finding a sponsors might be easier
[09:56] <jhenke> from the webpage I do not really find with whom I can request a backport. How can I get that started?
[10:14] <jhenke> thanks guys, I think I figured it out now, I hope someone of the backports team will look into that soon.
[10:30] <doko> seb128, GCC 5 ping
[10:30] <seb128> doko, yes, what about it?
[10:31] <doko> seb128, basically I'd like to know what will break when upgrading to the silo 16 ppa (see email)
[10:32] <doko> and fix that before copying the ppa to -proposed next Friday
[10:32] <seb128> doko, it's on my list to investigate for today/tomorrow
[10:35] <doko> ok, thanks
[10:36] <doko> seb128, if you can reach robert ancell, please can he avoid updating the gnome mm stack? before GCC is the default? can't reach him, and he didn't reply on my email
[10:36] <seb128> doko, ok, he probably read your email even if he didn't reply to it (knowing him)
[10:55] <doko> mvo, I also filed an issue to build apt using gcc-snapshot to investigate the test failure using GCC trunk
[10:58] <seb128> zyga, hey, did you notice that the new plainbox is depwaiting on python3-xlsxwriter which needs a mir?
[11:00] <zyga> seb128: oh - no, thanks for noticing that
[11:00] <seb128> zyga, yw!
[11:00] <zyga> I'll work on MIR paperwork ASAP
[11:00] <seb128> can you take care of the mir report?
[11:00] <seb128> thanks
[11:00] <zyga> yep, absolutely
[11:05] <seb128> flexiondotorg, Laney, that -welcome package you discussed earlier (iirc) is in the wily NEW queue, so somebody already sponsored it
[11:05] <flexiondotorg> seb128, That's great news.
[11:07] <seb128> bdmurray, it seems your apport update in wily is creating a real regression for autopkgtest, it has been retried several times and fails consistently, that block other things in proposed, are you looking at the issue?
[11:11] <seb128> hum
[11:11] <seb128> devscripts is blocked because lava-server autopkgtests fail, but looking to https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/wily-adt-lava-server/ that doesn't seem a new situation
[11:11] <seb128> could somebody unblock it/mark the test as buggy?
[11:12] <seb128> same for distro-info
[11:42] <doko> apw, schroot ping
[11:59] <zyga> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xlsxwriter/+bug/1477531
[11:59] <seb128> zyga, thanks
[12:08] <zyga> seb128: I could use a bit of advice, checkbox will require two new packages, one is applicable for Debian (QML module) but the other one is not (depends on SDK components). What should we do to make them available in Ubuntu
[12:08] <seb128> zyga, have it packaged and submitted for sponsoring
[12:08] <zyga> we have the qml module
[12:08] <zyga> how can we submit it to Debian for sponsoring?
[12:09] <zyga> seb128: I only have experience with python packags
[12:09] <zyga> packages
[12:10] <seb128> zyga, http://mentors.debian.net/sponsors
[12:10] <zyga> seb128: thanks
[12:10] <seb128> yw!
[12:11] <mvo> doko: oh, gcc-snapshot fails in the same way? I haven't checked the upstream gcc report in some days
[12:12] <doko> mvo, no, apt even fails to build using GCC trunk
[12:21] <dragos> hi i have installed ubuntu on my tab 2 7.0 and i dont have an otg cable cause to bring the gui i have to press CTRL+ALT+F7 and i was wondering if ubuntu can autopress these keys from an edited text
[13:34] <hjd> Hi all. I have to admit I don't know whether this is the right place, but I've seen various bugs like bug 1472165. These are marked as affecting a dozen different packages, presumably because the kernel is available in different forms. I do wonder whether the linux-lts-backport-maverick and -natty are simply added for completeness, or whether they don't need to be added for new bugs filed.
[13:35] <Laney> doko: Should I rebuild things for python3.5 if necessary?
[13:35] <Laney> e.g. pyside
[13:36] <doko> Laney, sure, maybe coordinate with slangasek, he is doing these uploads currently
[13:37] <hallyn> mbiebl: hi, can you point me to a url explaining how to have a systemd service not restart on package reinstall?  (i.e. to make dh_installinit --no-restart-on-upgrade work)
[13:38] <mbiebl> hallyn: is that a package without a sysvinit script, i.e. systemd service file only?
[13:38] <hallyn> mbiebl: yeah, looks like only upstart and systemd.
[13:38] <hallyn> (pkg is lxc)
[13:38] <mbiebl> then use dh_systemd_start --no-restart-on-upgrade
[13:38] <hallyn> call that after the dh_installinit?
[13:39] <mbiebl> is the package using dh?
[13:39] <hallyn> uh.  yeah.  i think.
[13:39] <hallyn> i get the pkging type names confused
[13:39] <mbiebl> then use the usual override_dh_systemd_start: ...
[13:40] <hallyn> ok, but so - should this NOT be considered a bug in dh_installinit?
[13:40] <mbiebl> what do you mean?
[13:40] <hallyn> i.e. what used to just work with dh_installinit --no-restart-on-upgrade now requires extra steps...
[13:41] <mbiebl> dh_installinit deals with sysv init scripts primarily
[13:41] <mbiebl> and handles .service files if the names match
[13:43] <mbiebl> hallyn: one could argue, that the functionality of dh-systemd should be merged into dh_installinit, but at the time, it seemed better to do it in a separate helper
[13:43] <hallyn> i suspect dh-systemd adds power that justifies its existing, but it does seem to me like dh_installinit should be able to handle the arguemnts it says it handles
[13:44] <hallyn> or, at least the manpage should be updated to say that no-restart-on-upgrade doesn't work with systemd by itself :)
[13:44] <hallyn> mbiebl: but thanks!  i'll try this out.
[13:44] <mbiebl> well, --no-restart-on-upgrade works with systemd
[13:44] <hallyn> ?
[13:45] <hallyn> not in dh_installinit though
[13:45] <mbiebl> say you have a /etc/init.d/foo and foo.service and you use dh_installinit --no-restart-on-upgrade
[13:45] <mbiebl> invoke-rc.d will correctly handle that
[13:45] <hallyn> i only have foo.service
[13:46] <mbiebl> and not restart the service file on upgrades
[13:46] <mbiebl> hallyn: that's what I tried to explain, apparently I failed
[13:46] <hallyn> so if i had a /etc/init.d/foo, it wouldn't restart on upgrade?
[13:46] <mbiebl> yes
[13:46] <hallyn> and it would start both foo.service and /etc/init.d/foo?
[13:46] <mbiebl> no, only foo.service obviously
[13:47] <mbiebl> (under systemd)
[13:47] <mbiebl> if there is no sysv init script, dh_installinit will do nothing
[13:47] <hallyn> hm.  we *have* sysv jobs, maybe installing those is the way to go
[13:47] <mbiebl> so dh_systemd_start kicks in
[13:47] <mbiebl> and you get the default behaviour of dh_systemd_start
[13:47] <mbiebl> which is to restart on upgrades
[13:47] <mbiebl> so you need to override that
[13:48] <mbiebl> via override_dh_systemd_start:\n dh_systemd_start --no-restart-on-upgrades
[13:49] <mbiebl> has it become clearer, how it works?
[13:49] <mbiebl> (nobody said, supporting multiple init systems wouldn't be simple)
[13:49] <hallyn> mbiebl: so in the past dh_instlalinit worked for all inits.  Is the thing I'm missing that 'dh_installinit' simply isn't meant to work with systemd?
[13:50] <hallyn> mbiebl: yeah i think i get it better now.  I'll get something worked out - thanks!
[13:50] <mbiebl> hallyn: upstart units don't need to be enabled
[13:51] <mbiebl> and we need some flexibility in the enabling and starting bits
[13:51] <mbiebl> so the helpers were split into dh_systemd_enable and dh_systemd_start
[13:51] <hallyn> and i don't need to put a call to dh_systemd_start under dh_installinit or anything, just put in the override_dh_systemd_start?
[13:51] <mbiebl> something which was odd to cram into dh_installinit
[13:51] <mbiebl> right, you override as any other dh command
[13:52] <hallyn> mbiebl: yeah i can believe it would've been awkward.  I only think that i'm not the only one confused and that the manpages should spell out to look at dh_systemd_start :)  I'll make a note to look into a docs patch
[13:52] <hallyn> mbiebl: thanks again
[13:53] <mbiebl> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-utopia/network-manager.git/tree/debian/rules#n61
[13:54] <mbiebl> dh_installinit's behaviour really becomes awkward if you want to achieve something like that
[13:54] <rbasak> infinity: I'm interested in your opinion on bug 1194074 please. Clearly user error, but it seems to be that we're leading them into it, and apache2's approach is better. What do you think, please?
[13:55] <mbiebl> that's mostly an issue though, for packages shipping multiple .service units
[13:55] <mbiebl> which is more common though under systemd, where you have multiple service unit instead of a giant init script starting multiple processes
[14:14] <Odd_Bloke> arges: There's a new release of cloud-init in wily, which should mean that all the SRUs are now fixed in wily.
[14:27] <arges> Odd_Bloke: ok
[14:30] <Laney> Odd_Bloke / smoser: will/can we get a new cloud image today?
[14:30] <Laney> There's an autopkgtest bug which triggers if there is a new cloud-init vs. what shipped in the image :/
[14:31] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: One will normally pop out of our automation whenever there are new packages on the base image.
[14:31] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: But I'll give it a kick if it hasn't started yet.
[14:32] <Laney> Odd_Bloke: ack, thanks
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: I've kicked that off; last build failed for spurious reasons so I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it works.
[14:41] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: What's the autopkgtest bug?
[14:41] <Laney> Odd_Bloke: It creates a conffile prompt which it doesn't (tell dpkg how to) handle
[14:46] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: "it" being?
[14:46] <Laney> adt-buildvm-ubuntu-cloud
[14:47] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/autopkgtest/+bug/1477626
[14:49] <Odd_Bloke> Laney: Ah, right.  I've added a comment suggesting using /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/ instead of modifying the apt installed config file.
[14:49] <Laney> Nice, didn't know that existed
[14:54] <Odd_Bloke> :)
[15:11] <infinity> rbasak: I could have sworn Debian policy actually defined the default docroot as being /var/www/something, and nginx is buggy for pointing people to /usr/share and encouraging exactly that bug.  Too busy to look right now, though.
[15:12] <tarpman> #730382?
[15:13] <infinity> rbasak: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl
[15:13] <bdmurray> seb128: I am but I'm not making much progress.
[15:13] <infinity> rbasak: It's not strongly-worded, but it's certainly mentioned.
[15:14] <rbasak> infinity: interesting, thanks. Has that changed recently? Last time I looked it wasn't as clear (it was more for applications than servers)
[15:14] <rbasak> teward: ^^
[15:15] <infinity> rbasak: Well, it is for applications, yeah, but it still mentions that the default docroot is /var/www/html, so one can infer that it should apply to servers.
[15:15] <rbasak> Yeah
[15:15] <infinity> rbasak: It's not a policy "must" or anything there, but I'd still consider it reasonable guidance for all httpds.
[15:15] <rbasak> I certainly get the impression that this is the intent, and it's never been a point of contention before nginx.
[15:16] <Odd_Bloke> There's also https://lintian.debian.org/tags/dir-or-file-in-var-www.html
[15:16] <infinity> rbasak: Certainly, pointing the default docroot to an FHS location owned by the package manager isn't sane.
[15:17] <infinity> rbasak: I'd argue they should ship their bit in /usr/share (as they do), and iff /var/www/html is empty, add a symlink to their index.html (and if not, leave it alone).
[15:17] <rbasak> Yeah that sounds reasonable
[15:17] <infinity> rbasak: Which, I imagine, is similar to what apache does, but I haven't looked at apache packaging in years.
[15:17] <seb128> bdmurray, k
[15:17] <infinity> rbasak: s/symlink/copy/ if the default nginx config doesn't follow links.
[15:52] <dragos> hi
[15:55] <teward> infinity: i think that was brought up in the given bug that was linked - nginx maintainers said "This is the root [current] in accordance with policy."
[15:56] <teward> rbasak: infinity: I would love that policy to have better wording, the next question is given the current hostility situation on this, should this be elevated higher than package maintainers in Debian to get authoritative policy on the decision
[15:56] <teward> or is that even possible?
[15:56] <teward> I know the Ubuntu politics, moreso than Debian
[15:56] <teward> (I actually try and AVOID Debian politics altogether)
[15:56] <teward> (at least, from the political/policy determination/interpretation side()
[15:57] <infinity> teward: It could be brought to the TC in Debian, though it would be smarter to try to get concensus on adding stronger wording to policy, with the nginx maintainers' input.
[15:58] <infinity> teward: That said, Debian's nginx maintainers refusing to move on this is no excuse for us not fixing it in Debian.
[15:58] <infinity> s/in Debian/in Ubuntu/
[15:58] <teward> infinity: of that, you, myself, and rbasak agree, given that I went on a 20-minute tirade in PM about this exact issue
[15:58] <teward> i'm quite happy of the community driven nature here in Ubuntu, where community consensus is preferred over the individual maintainer
[15:59] <teward> probably why i'm a fan of Ubuntu moreso than Debian XD
[15:59] <teward> infinity: i'm about to unarchive the bug in Debian on this for nginx maintainers.
[15:59] <infinity> teward: Meh, it's not really that different anymore.  And we do have "weak ownership" of some packages/sets in Ubuntu where you'll get smacked down pretty hard if you try to override those people.
[15:59] <dragos> im making cool ubuntu image for older pc's but with new apearane
[16:00] <teward> infinity: i'm of the preference that community or team consensus is better than 'weak ownership' - in this case, nginx is 'weakly' maintained by me but ultimately I stand down in favor of Server, Release, SEcurity, etc. team governance
[16:00] <teward> infinity: for all intents and purposes, I'm tempted to unarchive the bug in Debian, and say "Wait a minute, what about this policy? https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-customized-programs.html#s-web-appl ..."
[16:00] <teward> and say that the package is violating policy
[16:01] <teward> but the moment i do that i get negatively received
[16:01] <infinity> teward: Sure.  Just saying it's not actually *that* much different.  You're appealing to me, not because I care and want to overrule you, but because you trust my input.  That's just being a humble maintainer.  Same happens in any distro (and doesn't happen, when egos get in the way).
[16:02] <teward> Right
[16:02] <infinity> teward: That policy wording really can't be used as a stick to smack people with, as it's neither directed at httpd maintainers, nor is it stated as a "must" anywhere.  But it's a good talking point, since it certainly IMPLIES that the "default" docroot should be consistent, and consistently /var/www/html
[16:02] <teward> mmm
[16:03] <teward> i need to reexamine the policy, the prior arguments given, and then reach out again about the bug, with a stressor on "I want more than just Michael's opinion on this, I'd like other maintainers to weigh in"
[16:03] <infinity> teward: Anyhow, I'd honestly just fix it in Ubuntu for now, submit the patch to Debian without any inflamatory comment, and let them deal with it.
[16:03] <teward> infinity: i'm more tempted to see what their response will be
[16:03] <infinity> teward: And if it's something you feel passionate about, bring up a policy ammendment to set this slightly more in stone for all web servers.
[16:04] <teward> I expect a "[CENSORED] you, and [censored] the people affected"
[16:04] <teward> which is the current state
[16:04] <teward> infinity: i have 0 say in Debian, nor am I familiar with that current state - i would be petitioning for the policy rereview anyways given my current level of passion and drive on this
[16:04] <teward> infinity: if i were to propose such policy amendment who do I petition?
[16:04] <teward> (brb lunch, i'll respond to comments after i return)
[16:04] <cjwatson> debian-policy@
[16:05] <teward> cjwatson: debian-policy @ debian ?
[16:05] <infinity> teward: File a bug on debian-policy, if you have an ammendment ready, or a mail to debian-policy@ if you want a discussion.
[16:05] <infinity> teward: @lists.d.o
[16:05] <teward> infinity: i probably will mail in on the discussion first
[16:05] <cjwatson> you should cc affected lists/maintainers/etc. though, people aren't generally expected to keep up with everything on -policy
[16:05] <infinity> s/everything/anything/
[16:06] <teward> cjwatson: i intended to CC the maintainers group for nginx
[16:06] <teward> or rather, each of them, since it's comaintainership and not team based
[16:06] <cjwatson> but also other www maintainers
[16:06] <infinity> teward: Yeah, all httpd maintainers.
[16:06] <cjwatson> a policy change would affect all of them
[16:06] <teward> there's no list for that is it?
[16:06] <infinity> teward: Since the point of this is standardisation.
[16:06] <cjwatson> teward: dunno, your job to figure that out
[16:06] <teward> i mean, that's... what, lighttpd, apache2, nginx, probably smaller ones...
[16:06] <cjwatson> (that is, the job of the person proposing a change)
[16:06] <teward> heheheh
[16:06] <teward> i'll go hunting then
[16:06] <infinity> teward: Check maintainer fields<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for instance.
[16:07] <cjwatson> have a look on http://lists.debian.org/ too
[16:07] <teward> even if the battle ends up with me smacked
[16:07] <teward> (back in a bit I need food)
[16:07] <cjwatson> debian-webapps maybe
[16:07] <cjwatson> though that might be defunct ...
[16:07] <infinity> cjwatson: Given that current policy seems aimed at webapps already, I hope they agree. :P
[16:08] <infinity> (but it's silly to tell webapps people where the default docroot is and not tell httpd people to serve stuff there, so clearly someone needs to write gooder)
[16:08] <dragos> help i have an pc and it says to login i put my password and it logs out and asks me again to login
[16:09] <infinity> Pretty sure this all came about when apache1.3/2 were the only really viable web servers in the archive, and they decided the docroot, so no one thought an httpd policy was necessary.
[16:13] <Gallomimia> dragos: i've had that problem before. errors in X configuration. #ubuntu should be able to help
[16:13] <dragos> some dude banned me from #ubuntu for no reasion
[16:18] <cjwatson> dragos: I'm sorry, but this channel isn't for escalations from #ubuntu.  Perhaps you could try askubuntu.com for a calmer environment than IRC
[16:20] <dragos> bye
[16:20] <dragos> gtg
[16:30] <teward> infinity: perhaps it's time to revisit that then
[16:30] <teward> on the Debian side
[16:39] <teward> cjwatson: infinity: so basically i have to email the maintainers for the source packages of everything here , while emailing the discussion list?  https://packages.debian.org/unstable/httpd/
[16:40] <teward> (to propose a more set-in-stone discussion on the HTTPd enforcement of web docroots)
[16:40] <teward> as well as their webapps list?
[16:41] <cjwatson> I suspect everything there is a bit much, the apache modules don't matter for this
[16:42] <cjwatson> but I'm not that familiar with this, I was just giving general pointers
[16:42]  * teward shrugs
[16:42] <teward> might be easier to just submit a bug for the amendment then
[16:44] <teward> although this is what i think is the conflict point in the same policy doc infinity linked: "Instead they should use the /usr/share/doc/package directory for documents and register the Web Application via the doc-base package"
[16:44] <teward> i think that leads to confusion and there should be one set-in-stone one :/
[16:44]  * teward shrugs
[16:44] <teward> infinity: input would be nice, should i target everyone in the httpd subsection or just the major httpds?  Since I don't think there's a complete list of httpds out there
[16:50] <infinity> teward: I'd go with everything that 'Provides: httpd', probably, as that implies they're providing a standard interface.
[16:51] <infinity> teward: I'd argue that standard interface isn't just about serving stuff on port 80, but also which location in the filesystem they serve by default.
[16:51] <teward> infinity: any easy way to pull that whole list of packages short of page by page?
[16:51] <infinity> teward: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11926008/
[16:52] <teward> oooo nice
[16:52] <teward> that helps narrow it
[16:52] <infinity> teward: But grep-dctrl would be the other right way.
[16:54] <teward> infinity: i'll start drafting the discussion - do you want me to include you on this as well?
[16:54] <cjwatson> grep-dctrl is your friend, definitely, anyone who deals with stuff across a distribution rather than just a few packages should be familiar with it
[16:54] <teward> (on the CC list and such)
[16:54] <teward> cjwatson: indeed.  this is my first venture into cross-distro for more than just two packages so heh
[16:54] <infinity> teward: I probably won't get too involved.
[16:54] <teward> infinity: ack.  was more for a situational awareness reason than involvement
[16:55] <infinity> teward: grep-dctrl example http://paste.ubuntu.com/11926018/
[16:55] <infinity> Though some of those can probably be left off the list.  Use a bit of common sense. :)
[16:56] <cjwatson> -wFProvides is handy to avoid unwanted mid-word matches
[16:56] <infinity> The providers of httpd-cgi (ie: web servers that can do useful things!) are a smaller and saner list.
[16:56] <infinity> cjwatson: Ahh, didn't realise I was substring matching there.  Yes, -wFProvides httpd is a sane list.
[16:57] <infinity> teward: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11926020/ <-- There.
[16:57] <infinity> teward: Might want to re-run in a Debian chroot, in case they have ones we don't.
[16:57] <teward> right
[16:58] <teward> infinity: that does give a starting point though
[16:59] <infinity> teward: Realistically, you don't need 100% concensus here from every dinky thing that claims to provide an httpd, but apache, nginx, aolserver, and lighttpd at least all have a fair few users and consistency is nice.
[16:59] <teward> infinity: indeed, i was thinking about the major ones, didn't know aolserver was a thing though
[17:01] <infinity> teward: aolserver's actually not terrible.  Turns out that the people who built an empire out of providing a curated version of the internet knew a thing or two about serving stuff on port 80 by the time all was said and done.
[17:11] <teward> heh
[17:11] <teward> infinity: correct, i don't need a full consensus, in theory i need simple majority
[17:11]  * teward misused 'consensus' earlier
[17:40] <rbasak> infinity, cjwatson: just caught up. Thank you for the discussion with teward - I wasn't confident in the Debian processes involved here. I agree that it's an ambiguity in policy because nobody had reason to be better defined than "what apache does" in the past.
[17:41] <rbasak> I'm a little concerned about an Ubuntu delta because it involves a conffile change and moving data about for users (even if they do it themsleves).
[17:41] <rbasak> So I'd like to see an attempt to reach agreement to fix it in Debian first if we can do that. And it seems like that's where teward is going anyway.
[17:41] <rbasak> So maybe hold on an Ubuntu delta until Debian either decide or its clear that it isn't going anywhere in Debian please?
[20:10] <Laney> doko: is http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/transitions/html/python3.3-5.html ok?
[20:11] <doko> Laney, yes, looks reasonable
[20:11] <Laney> thx
[20:11] <doko> Laney, boost1.58? is this run against the silo 16?
[20:12] <Laney> they all are, that's how it got set up
[20:12] <doko> argh, ok
[20:13] <Laney> at least it shows you work that needs doing in there ;)
[21:22] <Laney> doko: is this legitimate?
[21:22] <Laney> build-3.5/data/ShibokenConfig.cpython-35m-x86_64-linux-gnu.cmake:SET(SHIBOKEN_PYTHON_SUFFIX ".cpython-35m-x86_64-linux-gnu")
[21:22] <Laney> build-3.4/data/ShibokenConfig.cpython-34m.cmake:SET(SHIBOKEN_PYTHON_SUFFIX ".cpython-34m")
[21:55] <doko> Laney, yes, this is now upstream
[23:48] <robert_ancell> slangasek, is there anything in particular I need to setup my wily box to compile with GCC5? I installed the packages and updated the symlinks but I still don't reproduce the errors in the PPA for zeitgeist
[23:48] <robert_ancell> Wondering if there's another package that might be affecting it
[23:51] <slangasek> jamespage: it looks like most of the openstack packages' autopkgtests are failing in wily now because they're uninstallable due to the sqlalchemy transition.  Is someone working on fixing the versioned deps on older sqlalchemy?
[23:52] <slangasek> jamespage: fwiw I'm asking about this because sqlalchemy is one of the packages that needed rebuilding against python3.5... it's rebuilt, but is clearly incompatible with openstack currently in wily
[23:52] <slangasek> robert_ancell: I'd say the most reliable way to reproduce it would be to enable that ppa in your sources.list
[23:53] <robert_ancell> slangasek, yeah, there is a lot of stuff in that PPA though...
[23:53] <slangasek> robert_ancell: right, you wouldn't need to install it all, but you'd want to pull your build-dependencies from there
[23:53] <robert_ancell> Good point
[23:55] <slangasek> robert_ancell: what I do notice from eyeballing the logs, the failing test links against xapian and xapian is in the list of packages pulled from the ppa