[00:00] <anastasiamac> axw: sure, i'll look \o/
[00:10] <axw> anastasiamac: if you liked that PR, you'll love this one: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7216 ;)  if you have any time... it's kinda big
[00:11] <anastasiamac> axw: i saw and got excited but it may need to wait until after lunch... if it's k
[00:11] <axw> anastasiamac: no worries. finally going to look at 1.8 test failures this morning
[00:12] <anastasiamac> axw: \o/
[00:13] <anastasiamac> axw: i was going to say "unless u want to figure out why multiwatcher is not seeing changes"... but m not even convinced that this si an issue m looking at now... is there any way that transaction integrity could b violated in some way?
[00:13] <anastasiamac> axw:  may i need more coffee too..
[00:13] <anastasiamac> maybe*
[00:14] <axw> anastasiamac: I don't know
[00:22] <axw> veebers: are you aware that qa.jujucharms.com is unavailable?
[00:23] <anastasiamac> axw: yes :) veebers is working on resurecting it.. apparently 1.25 is involved :D
[00:24] <axw> anastasiamac: okey dokey
[00:26] <veebers> axw: aye, looking. (as anastasiamac says)
[00:31] <anastasiamac> axw: reviewed (could not resist) :D
[00:31] <axw> anastasiamac: thanks :)
[02:36] <axw> anastasiamac: interestingly, I have no applications in the modelEntityRefs collection for the model that's looping
[02:37] <axw> anastasiamac: nor machines, volumes, filesystems
[02:37] <anastasiamac> axw: i do occasionally... yeah no machines/volumes/filesystem but "ubuntu' as an app makes an appearance
[02:39] <anastasiamac> axw: so the best i can say that application get removed at/before/after watcher is created... ?
[02:39] <anastasiamac> axw: no changes to app collection come thru, but the first check to see if model is empty still believes that there is an app in entityrefs tables
[02:39] <axw> anastasiamac: seems that restarting the controller agent resolved it in this case
[02:39] <anastasiamac> axw: right
[02:40] <anastasiamac> axw: because the chemckmodelempty so that there is nothing for apps in modelentityrefs coz "lingering" app was removed
[02:47] <anastasiamac> axw: m reb-bootstrapping with status update to display the actual erro that we get when we r infitely waiting for changes :)
[02:48] <anastasiamac> axw: it's https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/develop/state/model.go#L1047
[02:49] <anastasiamac> axw: and becuase we only re-check if model is ready to die if/when we get changes, we'll never re-check agains coz we have not seen any changes on application and machine collections
[02:53] <axw> anastasiamac: because they're separate collections, it is theoretically possible that we'll observe the app removal before the ref removal
[02:54] <axw> anastasiamac: I would've thought it'd happen too quickly, but it is theoretically possible
[04:20] <mup> Bug #1615986 changed: Agents failing, blocked by upgrade but no upgrade performed <canonical-is> <juju:Invalid> <juju-core:Expired> <juju-core 1.25:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1615986>
[04:20] <mup> Bug #1661681 changed: Broken agent complaints about tomb: dying <juju-core:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1661681>
[05:40] <axw> anastasiamac: teeny weeny review? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7217
[05:42] <anastasiamac> axw: will look in a sec... m just about to propose my changes and will need u to return a favor :D
[05:43] <axw> anastasiamac: okey dokey
[05:54] <veebers> Quick Q, how can I tell if a filesystem on an AWS instance is persistent? I need to backup the juju db so I can safely wipe it (to get replication started again)
[05:55] <jam> axw: reviewed 7217
[05:55] <veebers> I have limited '/' space, but see "/dev/xvdb       3.9G  8.1M  3.7G   1% /mnt" which would be enough for the back up. Can I be sure that's not going to disappear on me?
[05:55] <axw> jam: thanks
[05:55] <anastasiamac> jam: tyvm!
[05:55] <jam> axw: I'm concerned that the proxy changes indicate a real problem that we need to understand
[05:56] <veebers> axw: would you know? ^^
[05:58] <axw> veebers: sorry I don't understand your first question about persistence
[05:59] <veebers> axw: ah right, I'm concerned that if I move the backup to that filesystem (under /mnt) if the machine restarts will that file system be there again (or is it some semi-permanent FS that gets lost on reboot
[05:59] <veebers> axw (it's an aws question, not juju :-))
[06:00] <veebers> I only ask because I saw this: https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?messageID=562254 where they say they rebooted and lost their /dev/xvdb
[06:02] <axw> veebers: I see. IIRC the cloud images mount the ephemerical block device at /mnt. you should be able to confirm by looking in the ec2 console, and looking at the volumes associated with the instance
[06:02] <axw> veebers: IOW, probably not persistent, but you can check that way
[06:02] <veebers> axw: ack will check. Thanks
[06:10] <axw> jam: I've responded to your comments
[06:12] <axw> anastasiamac: and I've responded to your comments on the vsphere PR, if you can please see my replies before I type $$billz$$
[06:12] <anastasiamac> axw: sure thing, gimme a sec - almost there :D
[06:21] <anastasiamac> axw: jam: PTAL https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7218
[06:23] <axw> anastasiamac: looking
[06:24] <axw> anastasiamac: presumably you've tested, and you're not seeing failures anymore?
[06:24] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx :) m happy with 7216
[06:25] <anastasiamac> axw: yes, tested :) we also have CI tests that exercise different scenarios than the one i've used.. i cannot fail it any more... but if u r keen, feel free to run it too :D
[06:28] <jam> axw: I have comments, I feel like we should probably just try to chat about them directly.
[06:28] <jam> I have to start up a long-running test here, once I get it kicked off, I think a hangout/IRC chat is appropriate
[06:29] <axw> jam: sure
[06:32] <axw> anastasiamac: a few little things, main thing is to move the settings changes out
[06:33] <anastasiamac> axw: thnx, i'll look :D
[06:50] <jam> anastasiamac: i had a couple comments as well
[06:52] <anastasiamac> jam: \o/
[08:12] <anastasiamac> jam: axw: PR 7218 updated, manual tests pass... happy for me to land?
[08:12] <axw> anastasiamac: yup, it's accepted
[08:12] <anastasiamac> axw: awesome \o/
[08:26] <anastasiamac> axw: jam: the bit that was a drive-by
[08:26] <anastasiamac> https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7219
[08:57] <axw> jam: ready to chat yet?
[08:57] <jam> axw: ah sorry, yeah, let's go ahead and do it, I'll interrupt my other interruptions :)
[08:58] <jam> axw: https://hangouts.google.com/hangouts/_/canonical.com/jam-axw?authuser=1
[08:58] <axw> jam: IRC is fine for me, then you can multi task
[08:58] <axw> or that
[12:44] <rogpeppe> anyone care for a review of some changes to some of the API testing code? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/7222
[18:28] <perrito666> hey annybody here?
[18:29] <rick_h> perrito666: party
[18:29] <perrito666> rick_h: hehey, do you happen to know if curtis or aaron are on?
[18:30] <rick_h> perrito666: not sure, /me looks for abentley_ and sinzui (not here)
[18:31] <abentley_> perrito666: Hi.
[18:32] <perrito666> abentley_: hello :) I had not seen you with that underscore
[18:32] <perrito666> abentley_: I am looking with someone with privileges to remove me from canonical organization in github, juju is quite spammy of my email  :)
[18:35] <abentley_> perrito666: Are you sure that will have the desired effect?  AIUI, Juju is under the Juju team, not Canonical.
[18:36] <rick_h> perrito666: let me know which org and I can pull it
[18:37] <perrito666> rick_h: I did not know you had that kind of power ;)
[18:37] <rick_h> perrito666: :)
[18:38] <rick_h> perrito666: removed from both
[18:39] <perrito666> rick_h: ah cool, now I can actually see notifications from my own projects :) cheers
[18:39] <rick_h> perrito666: party on
[23:44] <menn0> anastasiamac: while testing some stuff I kept running into the same issue you've been looking at (can't destroy model when there's an app with no units)
[23:45] <menn0> anastasiamac: restarting the controller is an inconvenient workaround
[23:45] <anastasiamac> menn0: on tip?
[23:45] <menn0> thumper: ^^^
[23:45] <anastasiamac> menn0: coz i've landed a fix yesterday
[23:46] <menn0> anastasiamac: hmmm
[23:46] <menn0> anastasiamac: not sure if this was with your fix or not
[23:46] <menn0> anastasiamac: i'll try again
[23:49]  * anastasiamac holding breath and looks over menn0's shoulder...
[23:52]  * menn0 has also managed to get the juju client into a state where "juju models" segfaults
[23:52] <menn0> will look into that soon
[23:53] <anastasiamac> thumper: menn0: wallyworld_:axw: here is an interesting question: should retry -provisioing work on containers?
[23:53] <menn0> anastasiamac: I would have thought so
[23:53] <axw> anastasiamac: I don't see why not
[23:53] <anastasiamac> menn0: I was going to look into juju models in general.. we have a lot of different failure scenarios for it.. but feel free to lend a hand :D
[23:53]  * menn0 has no time for any of this
[23:53] <anastasiamac> menn0: axw: k, I'll triage it as a wishlist
[23:54] <axw> anastasiamac: seems like a bug to me.
[23:54] <anastasiamac> menn0: don't worry about list models then :D i'll address (at some stage)... but really really want to know if u cannot destory model still
[23:54] <anastasiamac> axw: does it? do we have code that allows it to cater for containers already?
[23:55] <wallyworld_> it wasn't designed to work with containers
[23:55] <wallyworld_> but it could
[23:55] <axw> anastasiamac: I don't know, but how is that relevant? lack of code does not mean it's not a bug
[23:55] <wallyworld_> it was designed to handle transient cloud failures
[23:56] <wallyworld_> containers should not have the same class of transient errors
[23:57] <axw> wallyworld_: why? the host/container system can fail in transient ways too
[23:57] <wallyworld_> "the same class of"
[23:57] <wallyworld_> but yeah
[23:57] <wallyworld_> there's no reason why the code can't be extended
[23:58] <wallyworld_> i think there's an IsTransient method or something on an error?
[23:58] <anastasiamac> axw: lack of code indicates an RFC - feature improvement: not a bug but wishlist: "fill this functional gap for me" :D
[23:58] <wallyworld_> i can't recall if that's what is checked
[23:58] <axw> anastasiamac: a design bug is still a bug.
[23:58] <anastasiamac> axw: and when i say wishlist, it does not mean we should not address :)


[00:10] <_marx_> next Tuesday?
[00:10] <cjohnston> yessir
[00:11] <cjohnston> pleia2: should i inform the instructors about the meeting and let them know they can come if they want, or do you think that would make it to where nothing gets done
[00:11] <_marx_> 1900 est loco team meeting that day
[00:11] <pleia2> cjohnston: depends on the agenda :)
[00:15] <_marx_> i can be in two between 8:00 and 8:30 pm
[00:16] <cjohnston> so would 2100 work better for you?
[00:17] <_marx_> hum, divided attention for 30 minutes should be managable
[00:17] <_marx_> well yeah 2100 might be better
[00:21] <cjohnston> ok..
[00:21] <_marx_> loco team has a long agenda
[00:22] <cjohnston> pleia2: _marx_ Pendulum 2100 est on Tuesday January 19
[00:22] <cjohnston> Confirm please?
[00:22] <Pendulum> fine with me
[00:23] <pleia2> yep
[00:23] <cjohnston> Done.. thanks
[00:23] <cjohnston> pe	[6~[6~
[00:23] <cjohnston> oops
[00:23] <cjohnston> lol
[00:25] <_marx_> booked
[00:25] <_marx_> hum nigel isn
[00:25] <_marx_> t here
[00:26]  * cjohnston needs a good todo manager
[00:26]  * _marx_ wondering what he had in mind earlier w/screencast header
[00:27] <_marx_> but all done and loaded to U-One share
[00:38] <cjohnston> _marx_: could you do me a huge favor?
[00:38] <cjohnston> if you have time
[00:39] <cjohnston> _marx_ Pendulum pleia2 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Meetings/01192010  - please add agenda items you may have
[00:40]  * _marx_ looking
[00:50] <cjohnston> yall should all have emails
[00:51] <Pendulum> cjohnston: was about to say good e-mail :)
[00:52] <cjohnston> ty
[00:54] <nhandler> Not sure I agree with the logic behind the lernid decision, but it isn't my call. Either way, it might be worth linking to the google calendar from the wiki so people can subscribe to it if they wish
[00:54] <nhandler> I believe it is up-to-date and in sync with the wiki schedule
[00:55] <cjohnston> nhandler: with this course being geared towards beginners, who may not know how to install lernid (and possibly not even be on Ubuntu) I dont think its a wise idea to use the features of it
[00:55] <pleia2> cjohnston: great email!
[00:56] <cjohnston> ty
[00:56] <_marx_> cjohnston: now I know what is/was i was supposed to send you :\ course outline overview
[00:56] <cjohnston> hehehe
[00:57] <Pendulum> nhandler: I believe that is the plan so that people can use it if they want to. We're just not saying "everything needs to work in lernid" or recommending that everyone uses lernid
[00:58] <_marx_> nhandler: adding ppa's may be included in Hellow 's session
[00:58] <Hellow> That's one of the parts to my presentation, yes :P.
[00:58] <cjohnston> it wouldnt be fair to someone in a beginners course to setup slide shows and such for lernid when they possibly wont know how to install it
[00:59] <_marx_> great Hellow
[00:59] <cjohnston> off to study..
[00:59] <cjohnston> ping me if you need me
[00:59] <Pendulum> I mean, I plan on running lernid for at least part of it so I can play with lernid, but I guess I'm not that new anymore (although sometimes I still feel new)
[01:02] <_marx_> ten days y'all
[01:06] <Pendulum> yes!
[02:48] <cjohnston> _marx_: please dont remind me
[02:49] <pleia2> cjohnston: did you send out an announcement?
[02:50] <cjohnston> to?
[02:51] <pleia2> 11:48:27 < pleia2> cjohnston_: right, sending out the announcement tonight?
[02:51] <pleia2> 11:48:46 < cjohnston_> Maybe during lunch, but yes
[02:51] <pleia2> ^^ that one! :)
[02:51] <cjohnston> ya.. did you not get my email?
[02:51] <pleia2> oh, was it the email?
[02:51] <cjohnston> ya
[02:51] <cjohnston> announcement of finalized schedule
[02:51] <pleia2> I thought you were going to send the schedule to -classroom and -loco-contacts
[02:51] <cjohnston> I can..
[02:51] <cjohnston> that email was just to the instructors
[02:52] <pleia2> gotcha
[02:53] <cjohnston> let me see if I can come up with an email..
[02:53] <cjohnston> I'll get you to proof it first if you dont mind
[02:53] <pleia2> sure
[03:41] <cjohnston> pleia2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/356355/ please
[03:41] <cjohnston> were you able to find out about -announce?
[03:42] <pleia2> cjohnston: yeah, -announce is pretty much just for release/eol milestones
[03:42] <cjohnston> :-(
[03:42] <cjohnston> where else can we announce it.. any ideas?
[03:43] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: schedule final?
[03:43] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: unless someone tells me they have a problem with it.. yes
[03:43] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: awesome.  Let me get around to getting the settings for lernid ready
[03:43] <nigel_nb> nhandler: png
[03:43] <nigel_nb> nhandler: ping
[03:43] <cjohnston> the only changes i have made in the past two weeks I believe i spoke with each person who was effected
[03:44] <nigel_nb> as long as starting and ending are fine, lernid settings are same
[03:44] <nigel_nb> if you switch courses around, tell nhandler
[03:45] <cjohnston> k
[03:50] <Hellow> [late] We could announce it on ubuntu-news [/late]
[03:51] <nigel_nb> pleia2: what is the planned frequency of uud?
[03:51] <pleia2> cjohnston: just read the pastebin, looks great!
[03:51] <pleia2> nigel_nb: not decided yet
[03:51] <nigel_nb> pleia2: arrg, or else we could number it
[03:52] <cjohnston> Would you add anything? should I add please pass then on to the members of your teams as well as anyone you might feel would be interested?
[03:52] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: I figured just do it by date.. but i dunno
[03:52] <cjohnston> nhandler: is gonna help me with fridge status..
[03:52] <cjohnston> ive already done planet once
[03:52] <cjohnston> pleia2: is gonna do planet
[03:52] <cjohnston> ill probably do another planet or two
[03:53] <cjohnston> i may blog about my status of working on it.. which would in turn also advertise it
[03:53] <pleia2> cjohnston: the "please pass it on" line from your email earlier today was great
[03:53] <cjohnston> just copy and paste the whole promoting the ubuntu user day?
[03:53] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: I'll blog on ubuntuuweblogs.com
[03:54] <cjohnston> no thanks nigel_nb
[03:54] <cjohnston> jk :-P
[03:54] <nigel_nb> I actually blogged once, but I wasn't on the planet then
[03:54] <pleia2> something like your "Please take a few minutes over the next week or so to promote the User Day to people you know, in your LoCo Team, in your blog, or any other resources you may have access to." bit
[03:54] <cjohnston> will do
[03:55] <cjohnston> anything else i should add?
[03:55] <nigel_nb> asking for topics people would like to see on the next one?
[03:55] <pleia2> nigel_nb: good one :)
[03:55] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: i plan on a survey for that
[03:55] <cjohnston> I could put it in the email tho if yall want
[03:56] <cjohnston> pleia2: do we use anything for surveys?
[03:56] <pleia2> oh, in this announcement can you replace "course" with "class"?
[03:56] <cjohnston> umm.. sure :-)
[03:56] <pleia2> "course" is more like a prolonged thing, these are stand alone classes
[03:58] <cjohnston> yall are slacking with the meeting agenda
[03:59] <nigel_nb> slacking
[03:59] <pleia2> :P
[03:59] <nigel_nb> who? what? where?
[03:59] <cjohnston> nigel_nb: look at the agenda for the next meeting.. you got your number
[03:59] <cjohnston> :-P
[03:59] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/Meetings/01192010
[04:00] <nigel_nb> arg
[04:00] <cjohnston> ?
[04:00] <nigel_nb> how do we do surveys?
[04:00] <cjohnston> i dunno
[04:00] <nigel_nb> I mean I dont want people to sign up or anything
[04:00] <cjohnston> there was one after uds
[04:01] <cjohnston> which you didnt have to sign up for
[04:01] <cjohnston> i think either akgraner or cz......somelettersgohere asked me to fill it out
[04:01] <nigel_nb> haha
[04:02] <nigel_nb> dont let her see that one :P
[04:02] <cjohnston> shes not in here for me to tab
[04:02] <cjohnston> i have no idea what the rest of the letters are
[04:02] <cjohnston> lol
[04:02] <cjohnston> if she joins ill spell it right
[04:02] <akgraner> what's up?  doodle poll stuff?
[04:02] <nhandler> survey monkey?
[04:03] <cjohnston> akgraner or nhandler where does ubuntu normally do surveys for events?
[04:03] <akgraner> nigel_nb, how are you?
[04:03] <nhandler> cjohnston: For scheduling events? If so, Doodle
[04:03] <cjohnston> post event feedback
[04:03] <nigel_nb> feedback
[04:03] <akgraner> I use survey monkey  and doodle
[04:03] <akgraner> survey monkey for feedback
[04:03] <nigel_nb> akgraner: been better, I'm being fed food and made to roam around (at home after 7 months ;))
[04:04] <akgraner> :-)
[04:04] <cjohnston> survey monkey it is
[04:04] <cjohnston> pleia2: http://paste.ubuntu.com/356366/
[04:04] <cjohnston> anything else ^^
[04:04] <cjohnston> should i ask for course suggestions for next time or leave that to the survey?
[04:04] <nigel_nb> make a survey
[04:04] <pleia2> I'd leave it until the survey
[04:04] <cjohnston> kk
[04:04] <pleia2> cjohnston: looks good!
[04:05] <cjohnston><EMAIL_ADDRESS><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:05] <cjohnston> anything else?
[04:05] <cjohnston> -news, -learning, -user -??
[04:06] <nigel_nb> can someone give me mark's email id?
[04:06] <cjohnston> mark?
[04:06] <cjohnston> _marx_: ?
[04:06] <nigel_nb> _marx_
[04:07] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/markthecarp
[04:07] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: dont torture me on a dial-up
[04:07] <nigel_nb> :P
[04:07] <cjohnston> sorry
[04:07] <cjohnston> didnt know dialup
[04:07] <cjohnston> markthecarp gmail
[04:08] <cjohnston> .com
[04:08] <cjohnston> pleia2: ^^?
[04:09] <nigel_nb> yeah, got it
[04:09] <pleia2> -news-team and -learning
[04:09] <pleia2> (-news is for UWN)
[04:09] <nigel_nb> I've mailed jono with a copy to all 4 of you guys.  So in case something is wrong, please do what you have to do
[04:09] <pleia2> nigel_nb: thanks :)
[04:10] <nigel_nb> ok, later everyone :)
[04:10] <nigel_nb> I'm off enjoying my holidays ;)
[04:11] <cjohnston> thanks nigel_nb
[04:11] <cjohnston> ok.. sending the email in just a minute
[04:11] <nigel_nb> cjohnston: no probs
[04:13] <cjohnston> spam has been sent
[04:13] <cjohnston> I mean..
[04:13] <cjohnston> umm..
[04:13] <cjohnston> ya
[04:13]  * pleia2 waits for it to hit her inbox before bed
[04:13]  * cjohnston too
[04:13] <pleia2> yay :)
[04:14] <pleia2> looks great!
[04:14] <cjohnston> ty
[04:15] <pleia2> nice to see the spanish version coming together too :)
[04:15] <cjohnston> agreed
[04:15] <cjohnston> i just wish i could read it
[04:15] <cjohnston> lol
[04:16] <cjohnston> ive translated it once or twice just to see what they have said
[04:16] <pleia2> hehe
[04:16] <cjohnston> see if they figured out anything we didnt
[04:16] <cjohnston> I guess they turned away an instructor who wanted to teach something that didnt fit
[04:16] <pleia2> ok, bedtime
[04:17] <pleia2> night :)
[04:17] <cjohnston> g'nite
[04:17] <cjohnston> I'm following in just a minute or two
[04:18] <cjohnston> we are on fridge!
[04:20] <cjohnston> I'm glad we have gotten this thing together like we have.. thanks Pendulum pleia2 _marx_ and nb..
[04:31] <cjohnston> g'nite all
[10:16] <humphreybc> I wonder if anyone could tell me how to mount a remote server in boot?
[10:16] <humphreybc> obviously requires editing the fstab
[10:16] <humphreybc> i connect via SSH
[11:49] <cjohnston> mornin
[11:50] <Pendulum> hiya
[11:51] <cjohnston> hey pleia2
[11:51] <cjohnston> sorry.. hey Pendulum
[12:06] <doctormo> Hey all
[12:06] <cjohnston> hey doctormo
[12:06] <Pendulum> morning doctormo
[12:19] <pleia2> morning
[12:23] <Pendulum> morning pleia2
[12:25] <cjohnston> hey pleia2
[14:43] <pleia2> oh good, we're on the fridge \o/
[22:03] <cjohnston> cra[
[22:03] <cjohnston> crap
[22:03] <cjohnston> lol


[14:18] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Think this might be of any use to us (or our people)? https://github.com/stuartlangridge/magnus
[14:21] <OvenWerks> does it do more than alt scroll?
[14:25] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: where would that be used? If the text size is too small, then the default can be set higher or the application has a bug. most applications where zooming in already have internal zoom functions like graphics or even firefox
[14:25] <Eickmeyer> Wimpress: ^
[14:25] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Accessibility, I would think.
[14:26] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: so does alt scroll not already fill that need?
[14:27] <Eickmeyer> Never tried it. Is that UI-wide or just in certain applications?
[14:27] <OvenWerks> part of xfce
[14:27] <Wimpress> Yes, it is primarily a a11y tool.
[14:28] <Wimpress> But also of use to designers who want to close inspect images etc.
[14:28] <Eickmeyer> So, more like a magnifying glass less like a UI magnifier.
[14:28] <Wimpress> Exactly light a magnifying glass. You have a window in which the area around the mouse is magnified and displayed.
[14:29] <Wimpress> *like
[14:30] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: probably I am not the one to ask. eylul or others who do mostly graphics would know better.
[14:30] <Eickmeyer> Personally, I think it would be a welcome addition to the graphic design aspect.
[14:31] <Eickmeyer> Even as a photographer this could be useful.
[14:31] <OvenWerks> I can think there may be an advantage to only magnifying a portion of the screen over the whole screen.
 @azbulutlu ^ Any thoughts?
[14:34] <Eickmeyer> We'll see what she thinks.
[14:48] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I am sure the utility is small enough that it will not make much of a dent in the iso size. :)
[14:55] <Eickmeyer> Agreed.
[14:56] <Eickmeyer> Wimpress: if you get that included in the archive, we'll add it to our seed.
[14:59] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: do check the depends
[15:00] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: that's all in the archive. Wimpress already has a PPA made for it. We use some of those already.
[15:46] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: I guess I should have asked if it works in plasma too :) or if kde already has a similar utility. If so then it should be added to DE specific packages.
[15:46] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: It would be added to the -desktop seed. Plasma already has something.
[15:46] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: you are way ahead of me then
[17:07] <Eickmeyer> OvenWerks: Might need your help in #ubuntustudio. Gone through the usual audio troubleshooting steps, might need something deeper.


[13:03] <falcojr> I was looking at the rhel hostname PR and got a failure when running the integration test for it. I did a little digging and found that this is giving us a problem: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859/files#diff-2902e7f3123dd1e701482d6c60d6ca2e51d2dcbe3f643cb30be70727fde3fbfbR262
[13:03] <falcojr> The configuration there doesn't contain the userdata so we can't make any decisions based on it. Is this normal/expected for distro objects to not receive userdata?
[13:04] <falcojr> if so, implementing this will require a different approach
[15:19] <rharper> falcojr: I don't think distro objects ever get user-data, that's bound to the datasource object, and the *cloud* object is what binds a distro and a datasource ;
[15:21] <rharper> ah, _cfg is system_config IIRC , let me dig a bit more;
[15:24] <rharper> right, system_config, in cloudinit/stages.py:Init object, the distro property, you can see distro_cls is fed system_config from _extract_cfg('system') which crawls through /etc/cloud for "system" config, the static on-disk conf files; and is pulling out the 'system_info' section of the on-disk config;
[15:33] <falcojr> thanks for that. Back to the drawing board then I guess... :/
[15:49] <rharper> there's nothing that requires the config to be present within the system_config, only that the method could be called with a parameter (which would default to system_config value, if not specified) ...
[15:49] <rharper> I think we do something like this re ntp
[15:49] <rharper> falcojr: ^
[15:53] <falcojr> rharper: I'm not sure I understand that last sentence..."that the method could be called with a parameter"?
[16:20] <ananke> I'm trying to determine the order of operation of various parts of cloud-init on an ec2 debian image, and I was hoping somebody could give me a clue. I want to know whether user-data is executed before or after scripts-per-boot. I can't figure out what the name of the user-data module is
[16:20] <ananke> there's rightscale_userdata, but I'm not sure if that's it
[16:25] <rharper> falcojr:  right, sorry.  there are interactions in cc_set_hostname.py between the userdata config (the cfg that's passed to handle) and the distro object (Hanging off cloud object which binds the datasource and distro object together).  I'm suggesting that in the method we are invoking on the distro object to set the hostname, it can take a value provided by cc_set_hostname which came from user-data;  then as a unittest, that's
[16:25] <rharper> split into two parts,  1) distro method handles various values of the paramter  2) config test which tests calling distro method in various ways;
[16:29] <ananke> ahh, it's user-scripts module
[16:29] <rharper> ananke: user-data isn't a module, it's the config in which you pass data which is consumed by one or more config modules;  most config modules have a specific namespace, like ntp: { config under here for ntp}  but some config modules may read from multiple namespaces ...   scripts-per-boot is one of the config stages that runs in cloud-init "final" stage, which runs after the config "module" stage;   there are some more subtle
[16:29] <rharper> orderings ... so it may help if you ask specifically about what you're trying to do or what's not working
[16:39] <ananke> rharper: it appears that what I'm looking at is 'user-scripts (i.e. shell scripts passed as user-data)' (from cloud-init docs) , otherwise described here: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/user-data.html
[16:40] <ananke> and my particular issue is figuring out if that runs before, or after, the scripts-per-boot. Looks like it runs after
[16:44] <Odd_Bloke> ananke: Yep, that is "scripts-user" and in the default configuration runs after "scripts-per-boot": you can see your specific config in /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.
[16:46] <ananke> Odd_Bloke: thanks! my issue was trying to figure out the correct name for it, because /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg didn't have much in terms of 'user-data'
[16:48] <rharper> Odd_Bloke: thanks ... that's an unfortunate name swap (scripts-user vs user-scripts in the docs)
[16:57] <Odd_Bloke> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/modules.html#scripts-user does have it the right way around
[17:54] <hamalq> hi can i get +1 on this https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859
[18:55] <blackboxsw> hamalq: I think you may have missed backlog conversation on your branch from 5 hours ago. "falcohjr" I was looking at the rhel hostname PR and got a failure when running the integration test for it. I did a little digging and found that this is giving us a problem: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859/files#diff-2902e7f3123dd1e701482d6c60d6ca2e51d2dcbe3f643cb30be70727fde3fbfbR262
[18:56] <blackboxsw> folks are talking back and forth about it a bit
[18:58] <blackboxsw> https://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2021/04/13/%23cloud-init.html for IRC log reference
[19:04] <hamalq> blackboxsw: but this says it pass :). b
[19:04] <hamalq>  https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859/checks?check_run_id=2282060461
[20:04] <ananke> hmm, this is nuts. Despite scripts-per-boot being clearly set up to run before scripts-user, the files they create indicate otherwise
[20:05] <ananke> we're talking less than 1 second apart, but it's consistent: my scripts-per-boot is able to use data produced by scripts-user
[20:10] <ananke> the only explanation would be that perhaps AWS EC2 user-data is actually executed as the rightscale_userdata not scripts-user, but the content of it is in /var/lib/cloud/instance/user-data.txt
[20:11] <rharper> how are you testing?  new instance launches?
[20:13] <ananke> same instance & rebooting. I have user-data provided script which creates a file, and another script in /var/lib/cloud/scripts/per-boot that consumes it to configure resolver. Simply put, the per-boot script would fail flat if the file was not present
[20:14] <rharper> are you certain you're not using the file from the previous boot ?
[20:14] <ananke> I can overwrite the file, remove it, etc: yet it always appears before the per-boot script runs
[20:16] <rharper> you likely want to use cloud-init clean --logs; this allows the same instance to behave more like a new instance launch (cloud-init cleans up itself, but it can't undo all actions, like user-add, setting passwords, or side-effects from running scripts);
[20:16] <rharper> there's not a lot of magic in those scripts; the config modules write convert the user data into a shell script, and then call runparts on their respective directories
[20:17] <rharper> if you look at cloud-init.log in /var/log/cloud-init.log, you should see cc_scripts_user being called after cc_scripts_per_boot ;
[20:18] <ananke> ohh, I should mention that I've also created a dozen new instances, and all of them behave the same way. Coincidentally, the behavior is in my favor, as I want to consume the file created by user-data via a per-boot script
[20:18] <ananke> I just don't like to rely on luck, especially if on paper it shouldn't work
[20:18] <rharper> I wouldn't rely on that either
[20:19] <ananke> rharper: I looked at cloud-init analyze show, and the order is as you indicate
[20:21] <ananke> hmm, I think I may have found my culprit
[20:33] <hamalq> falcojr: hi can i get +1 on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859 thanks
[20:36] <falcojr> hey hamalq, unfortunately no. Scroll up a bit to find some discussion around an issue I found with it. The TLDR is that the config object attached to the distro doesn't have the userdata information we want. It will need to be passed in through via the module instead.
[20:36] <hamalq> but the test pass how did u find thee issue
[20:37] <falcojr> I can help make that happen, but it'll require some more reworking
[20:37] <falcojr> The integration test passed for you? It didn't pass for me
[20:37] <hamalq> what does that mean it run it a job i run more that onw
[20:38] <hamalq> how did it fail for u, what if ur ENV is wrong
[20:38] <hamalq> :)
[20:39] <hamalq> i mean is there another integration test other than this https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/859/checks?check_run_id=2282060461
[20:46] <falcojr> ooph, it actually failed but reported as passed because a bug in how we setup CI
[20:46] <falcojr> see the bottom of the log at https://travis-ci.com/github/canonical/cloud-init/jobs/496557277
[20:46] <falcojr> (I'll fix that ASAP)
[20:50] <hamalq> oh it says passed but its failing, ok thanks
[20:50] <falcojr> yeah sorry, I know that's annoying
[22:07] <hamalq> falcojr: done https://travis-ci.com/github/canonical/cloud-init/jobs/498272024
[22:10] <fowl> currently I use cloud-init to install a bunch of software and then use ssh to start the processes so that the secret values I pass in aren't in the instance metadata, is there a better way to do it with just cloud-init?
[22:17] <blackboxsw> fowl, offhand I could think of maybe runcmd in #cloud-config to git clone some repo that contains your secrets and operate on that to finalize your setup so #cloud-config (and instance-metadata.json) won't contain your secrets. Alternatively,  /run/cloud-init/instance-data.json is world readable and redacted for non-root users for certain sensitive metadata keys.
[22:17] <blackboxsw> https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/master/cloudinit/sources/__init__.py#L195-L197
[22:19] <blackboxsw> fowl, if  you control your cloud's metadata exposed to cloud-init, then maybe #cloud-config could provide a switch to allow you to extend the sensitive_metadata_keys to allow redacting some keys you know will contain such sensitive information.
[22:22] <blackboxsw> user-data exposed to the instance is only accessible as root user currently, so sensitive information provided at instance launch time via user-data should be "safe" from non-root users. Though you have to trust the transport/cloud you are using which is accepting that user-data and sending it to the instance at launch time (as well as that the secrets aren't exposed on that cloud's IMDS (instance metadata
[22:22] <blackboxsw> service/API)
[22:25] <blackboxsw> while cloud-init does redact /run/cloud-init/instance-metadata.json I still think the IMDS in most clouds makes that world readable to the instance with typical curl <your_userdata_route> so it has limited benefit for unsecured cloud IMDS endpoints.
[22:33] <fowl> that is really useful looking, a perfect solution if the IMDS could be turned off
[23:23] <hamalq> falcojr: https://travis-ci.com/github/canonical/cloud-init/jobs/498303397