[08:01] <pitti> Good morning
[08:02] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti
[08:02] <pitti> hey didrocks, had a nice weekend?
[08:03] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, really nice with some sun \o/ thanks, and you?
[08:04] <pitti> me too, I finally rode my bicycle again yesterday, and visited my grandparents
[08:04] <pitti> my flat was still in one piece, and I still recognized it after three weeks :-P
[08:04]  * pitti needs to leave for a bit for a doctor appointment and supermarket; my fridge is absolutely empty
[08:05] <didrocks> pitti: same here ;) see you later!
[09:01] <seb128> hello there
[09:11] <mvo> hey seb128!
[09:11] <seb128> hey mvo
[09:11] <seb128> how are you?
[09:11] <seb128> had a good trip back?
[09:11] <mvo> good, easy trip back, also I missed my connection in luxemburg by 1 minute :/
[09:12] <mvo> but not a big deal, it was just 1h until the next train
[09:12] <mvo> but I discovered that the train station is not very exciting ;)
[09:12] <seb128> hehe, indeed
[09:12] <mvo> and you? all easy?
[09:13] <didrocks> hey seb128!
[09:14] <seb128> lut didrocks
[09:14] <seb128> mvo, yes, left at 9:15, was home at 11;25
[09:14] <mvo> heh :)
[09:14] <seb128> I crossed Lucas at breakfast who came by car
[09:15] <didrocks> seb128: and so, you finally drove back and he played on his computer?
[09:15] <seb128> and he's living in Nancy, ie my place was on his road back
[09:15] <seb128> didrocks, I drove but he didn't geek ;-)
[09:15] <didrocks> :-)
[09:15] <mvo> haha
[09:15] <seb128> didrocks, bien rentré ? c'était bien ton ubuntu-party-meeting samedi ?
[09:16] <seb128> mvo, he made me drive, wouldn't pick me up if I was not driving
[09:16] <didrocks> seb128: oui, dans la même voiture/train que le DPL, on a bien parlé ;) sinon le meeting, bof… rien de préparé et personne de motivé donc j'ai improvisé :/
[09:16] <seb128> see how the Debian guys are :p
[09:16] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:17] <seb128> didrocks, t'étais pas tout seul au moins à ta réunion  ? ;-)
[09:17] <didrocks> seb128: non, tout de même ^^ mais beaucoup de nouveaux installeurs, donc c'était pour leurs présenter les nouveautés + les best practices
[09:17] <mvo> seb128: did he at least have a nice car?
[09:18] <didrocks> (avec un gros troll du /home séparé ou non qui court encore…)
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:18] <seb128> mvo, no
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: you really should complain to him about his car :-)
[09:19] <didrocks> seb128: well, when you arrived, of course ;)
[09:19] <seb128> mvo, a suzuki one I never saw before, it feels quite low quality and it's noisy with slow engine
[09:19] <seb128> I will not complain though I was home for lunch rather than by 17h
[09:19] <seb128> ;-)
[09:20] <didrocks> sweet :-)
[09:22] <seb128> I forgot to take some CDs during UDS
[09:22] <seb128> I noticed saturday
[09:22] <seb128> I think I've not seen those around during the week
[09:25] <czajkowski> pitti: ping
[09:26] <DASPRiD> czajkowski, pong
[09:27] <czajkowski> DASPRiD: pitti ?
[09:27] <DASPRiD> nah, just a man-in-the-middle attack :)
[09:27] <seb128> czajkowski, you should ask your question
[09:27] <seb128> czajkowski, contextless pings are not that useful
[09:28] <czajkowski> seb128: well I was told to ask for pitti as it's to do with burndown charts
[09:28] <czajkowski> seb128: hence the ping for him :)
[09:28] <seb128> czajkowski, you can do useful ping, ie write some pitti: how do I change those in charts?
[09:29] <czajkowski> seb128: ok
[09:29] <seb128> czajkowski, so he can reply when he's back, you being still around or not
[09:29] <seb128> also other people might be able to reply
[09:29] <czajkowski> pitti: any change of helping me change the blueprint to Ubuntu and no Ubuntu-community https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-loco-manual-and-guidelinesas selecting Ubuntu isn't helping me change it.  then I'll be able to change series goal
[09:30] <czajkowski> seb128: cheers, won't use ping in here again :)
[09:42] <pitti> czajkowski: hello
[09:42] <pitti> hey seb128, bonjour; had a safe trip home?
[09:43] <seb128> hey pitti!
[09:43] <seb128> pitti, yes, 2 hours by car with lucas
[09:43] <pitti> czajkowski: I don't think you can do that with blueprints; you probably have to set that to "superseded" and open a new one against ubuntu
[09:44] <czajkowski> pitti: ah ok, just when I select Ubuntu, it's saying too large and to narrow down criteria
[09:46] <seb128> pitti, what about you? did you have a good trip back?
[09:46] <pitti> seb128: yes, it went smoothly; I was with Torsten until Frankfurt, and then the last 4.5 hours to Dresden; we even arrived 10 mins early
[09:47] <pitti> I did some postgresql stuff and watched some movies
[09:47] <seb128> good
[09:48] <pitti> seb128: we had some sun yesterday, so I spent some hours on my bike, as well as doing the laundry etc.
[09:48] <seb128> we had some sun too there
[09:48] <seb128> I went for a walk was good
[09:58] <huats> morning
[10:09] <rodrigo_> pitti, ping
[10:09] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[10:09] <rodrigo_> pitti, exhausted still :) how about you, got home safely?
[10:10] <chrisccoulson> hello everyone
[10:11] <rodrigo_> pitti, tried to talk with you on Thursday about bug #571286, but either I couldn't find you or you were in the middle of busy discussions :)
[10:11] <rodrigo_> pitti, so, do you have a minute to talk about it?
[10:17] <pitti> bug 571286
[10:18] <pitti>  hey chrisccoulson
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[10:18] <chrisccoulson> are you rested from last week now?
[10:18] <pitti> rodrigo_: sure (I'm scanning some stuff for expenses, but I'll answer)
[10:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, had a quiet train ride and a nice Sunday; how about you?
[10:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i flew back on saturday morning and caught up on some sleep :)
[10:19] <rodrigo_> pitti, ok, so, we fixed it in couchdb-glib supporting the old format, and right now, in lucid, users that enter street information on evolution can't see it in the web UI and viceversa
[10:20] <rodrigo_> pitti, so, this is the best way we could find to fix it
[10:20] <rodrigo_> pitti, as for other apps using the format without couchdb-glib, there is the web ui for u1 and macaco-contacts, which use desktopcouch, and both should be changed now to support the new format
[10:21] <rodrigo_> pitti, but in lucid, there's nothing else using it, afaik
[10:22] <rodrigo_> pitti, also, both couchdb-glib and the u1 web ui support the old format, so if any app didn't change, we would still support it
[10:23] <pitti> rodrigo_: hm, is couchdb-glib the only way to access couchdb? you can certainly talk to it in other ways, too?
[10:23] <pitti> rodrigo_: also, if a db entry has the old format, it looked like it would actually rewrite it (thus breaking other apps that rely on the old format)? or does it do on-the-fly conversion and keep the old format on disk?
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, via desktopcouch, but it doesn't include field level detail, it's up to the app to use the correct field names, so we've changed all the apps we control
[10:24] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, it moves the record to the new format on disk
[10:24] <pitti> right, I'm concerned about the ones that we don't control
[10:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, we discussed about keeping the old field, but we don't want to do that, if not we'll end up with lots of fields in the record for every change we do
[10:25] <rodrigo_> pitti, the only one we don't control is macaco contacts, which is not even in lucid
[10:25] <pitti> well, there might be dozens of quickly apps by now which use it, too?
[10:26] <pitti> this is not an Ubuntu distro-only thing, after all
[10:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, desktopcouch yes, but not sure about the contacts database
[10:26] <rodrigo_> pitti, and apps using the contacts db, they should watch the freedesktop page for changes
[10:27] <rodrigo_> teknico, anything to add?
[10:27] <pitti> that'd require all those apps to suddenly be aware of this, though
[10:28] <pitti> rodrigo_: wouldn't it be safer to leave the on-disk format as it is and just convert the format on the fly?
[10:28] <rodrigo_> yes, but the same will happen again when we add social networking accounts to the contact format, which we'll be doing soon
[10:28] <pitti> changing on-disk format is really not something that should be done post release
[10:28] <rodrigo_> pitti, as I said, we discussed that, but we don't want to set a precedent to do that, or we'll end up supporting dozens of fields
[10:29] <teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, the contacts web ui and the funambol interface can be made to work both ways, but it would be messier to have to keep old and new format in sync all the time
[10:29] <pitti> rodrigo_: adding new fields seems fine, though? old apps would just ignore those?
[10:29] <rodrigo_> pitti, no, when saving docs to couchdb, you send the whole doc, so if they ignore those fields, they might remove them
[10:30] <pitti> urgh
[10:30] <rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make sure people are aware of all changes, yes
[10:30] <rodrigo_> or have a schema checker, or something
[10:30] <pitti> couchdb doesn't support a thing like that, such as a "layout version" field which we can bump and apps need to check?
[10:31] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, we can have a 'record-type-version' field
[10:31] <pitti> I mean it's not already there?
[10:31] <rodrigo_> no
[10:31] <rodrigo_> because we haven't really came up with final version 1.0 :)
[10:31] <pitti> if couchdb formats are meant to be changed that often, this seems like the most important thing to have right from the beginning..
[10:32] <rodrigo_> well, so far, this is the only rename, until now we just added fields, which, yes, is a change
[10:33] <teknico> rodrigo_, pitti, yes, we need a format version field
[10:33] <rodrigo_> yes, bvut also we need to have apps be aware of that version field, and refuse to save docs if they don't understand the version
[10:33] <pitti> can we add that without breaking existing apps? it seems that version field would be subject to deletion as well?
[10:34] <rodrigo_> pitti, we need to make all apps aware, I'm afraid
[10:35] <teknico> yes, current apps will gleefully ignore the format version, and always try to work with what they get
[10:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, for every change we make, that is
[10:35] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we coordinated the SRU with changes in the server
[10:36] <pitti> so it seems we really need a solution which includes a version field, otherwise we'll run into the same problem over and over again
[10:36] <pitti> and it gets worse over time, when more and more apps use those DBs
[10:37] <pitti> rodrigo_: this could be passed as an "expected version" field in the connect function, and default to "0" if not given?
[10:37] <pitti> and that current change would then bump it to 1?
[10:37] <pitti> this would at least make those old apps crash with an exception instead of scribbling old data over new ones
[10:38] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why we want to add a contacts API to desktopcouch, as we do in couchdb-glib, so that apps just use that set/get API instead of free form field names, as it is now
[10:38] <rodrigo_> pitti, then, the version/format details would just be in couchdb-glib/desktopcouch
[10:42] <pitti> rodrigo_: but this seems to affect all DBs, not just contacts?
[10:42] <rodrigo_> pitti, yes, all dbs
[10:42] <pitti> i. e. it seems to make more sense to apply this version check/field to all DBs and default to 0 if it's not there
[10:42] <rodrigo_> pitti, that's why in couichdb-glib I'm adding API for all specific formats
[10:42] <pitti> ah, ok; sounds good
[10:42] <pitti> if we can convert data loss into app crash, this seems much better
[10:43] <rodrigo_> and we discussed at UDS doing the same for desktopcouch
[10:44] <rodrigo_> so the problem is not really in the format itself, but on letting apps use the field names they want, instead of an API that deals with format changes
[10:45] <rodrigo_> we have the same problem now for other fields, if some app does firstname instead of first_name as the field name, we lose data
[10:53] <didrocks> rebooting on maverick, bbl (or not ;))
[11:05] <vuntz> what should I do with gnome-menus bugs mentioning Ubuntu in upstream bugzilla?
[11:08] <seb128> vuntz, ?
[11:08] <vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618762
[11:08] <seb128> vuntz, could you explain the question?
[11:08] <vuntz> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=618780
[11:09] <vuntz> seb128: since you're patching gnome-menus to use the cache stuff, it's possibly ubuntu-specific bugs
[11:10] <seb128> vuntz, ask them to open the bug on launchpad or to try without the cache as you prefer there
[11:10] <seb128> vuntz, i.e they can clean /usr/share/applications/desktop*cache
[11:10] <seb128> and try without it
[11:10] <vuntz> ok
[11:10] <seb128> or ask to open the bug on launchpad
[11:11] <vuntz> thanks
[11:11] <seb128> vuntz, thank you ;-)
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, shame that you didn't come to UDS btw!
[11:12] <seb128> but good to see you hacking on GNOME ;-)
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, btw have you seen bugs similar to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/439448
[11:12] <seb128> vuntz, do you have any clue how we could try to debug those?
[11:13] <rodrigo_> hey vuntz
[11:13] <rodrigo_> vuntz, yeah, we missed you at uds
[11:14] <vuntz> seb128: never seen this
[11:14] <vuntz> seb128: but I guess I'd add some nice printf code in the notification area
[11:15] <seb128> vuntz, it seems to not be restricted in the notification area though
[11:15] <vuntz> it's indeed a shame I couldn't come be an annoyance to all of you ;-)
[11:15] <vuntz> seb128: oh?
[11:15] <vuntz> seb128: in this case, I have no idea
[11:15] <seb128> ok
[11:19] <rodrigo_> vuntz, oh, no we missed you because we didn't have someone to assign all weird bugs to, not because we wanted to see you :D
[11:26] <vuntz> rodrigo_: :-)
[11:40] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, you're laura, right?
[11:40] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: yup
[11:41] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, I tried to find you on Friday morning, but then I had to leave at noon, so, want me to help you debug your tomboy problem?
[11:41] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: ah great
[11:42] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: sure. basically I was syncing my tomboy notes on othe machine to U1 and then on this machine synching again, but nothing was updating but it was telling it was
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, can you quit tomboy and run on a terminal -> tomboy --debug
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, and try again the syncing?
[11:42] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, then, pastebin the outpur
[11:43] <rodrigo_> output
[11:43] <czajkowski> will do
[11:44] <czajkowski> http://paste.ubuntu.com/434870/
[11:48] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: it missed last few lines in previous paste http://paste.ubuntu.com/434872/
[11:49] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah, it says there are no updates
[11:49] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: which is weird as the note from UDS hasn't been updated and it is missing a lot of information
[11:49] <czajkowski> and I've synced that note to U1
[11:49] <rodrigo_> hmm
[11:50] <czajkowski> and I've just resynced it to be sure
[11:50] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you try again syncing?
[11:50] <czajkowski> sure
[11:50] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ah, ok, and the Sync: New revision: what does it say?
[11:51] <czajkowski> just checking
[11:53] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434874/ same thing, says it's updating on this machine but nothing is happening
[11:54] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, have you done changes on both the web UI and tomboy before syncing?
[11:54] <czajkowski> just tomboy..
[12:02] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, can you just add a little change to any note in tomboy and try again?
[12:02] <czajkowski> sure
[12:03] <czajkowski> right that machine syned and said one note was up to date, now going to see if it updated on this machine.
[12:04] <czajkowski> 0 notes are updated: your notes are up to date.
[12:30] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, weird
[12:30] <czajkowski>  just a tad :)
[12:30] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, are there changes on the notes that are in the machine that fails?
[12:31] <czajkowski> nope
[12:31] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok, so can you open tomboy's prefs and see where it's pointing to? (Prefs->Synchronization)
[12:34] <czajkowski> services#
[12:34] <czajkowski> ;
[12:34] <czajkowski> Tomboy Web
[12:34] <czajkowski> server: https://one.ubuntu.com/notes
[12:35] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: getting (tomboy:21612): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_widget_is_ancestor: assertion `ancestor != NULL' failed
[12:35] <czajkowski> in the debug window
[12:35] <rodrigo_> ugh
[12:36] <czajkowski> when you say ugh it can't be good
[12:36] <rodrigo_> no, it means I don't know why that happens :)
[12:36] <czajkowski> really wish I found you on Friday
[12:36] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, yeah
[12:36] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, let's try one thing though:
[12:36] <rodrigo_> quit tomboy
[12:37] <czajkowski> done
[12:37] <rodrigo_> then mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
[12:37] <rodrigo_> then, restart tomboy and go to prefs, and clear the sync server and re-authorize again
[12:37] <rodrigo_> all this, on the machine that has the old notes
[12:38] <rodrigo_> make sure tomboy doesn't see any notes first, before re-authorizing it again
[12:42] <czajkowski> rodrigo_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/434912/ that seemed to work but got that on output
[12:43] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, hmm, tomboy didn't list any notes before you re-authorized it?
[12:44] <czajkowski> it did but I've a lot and didn't want to copy them all in ;)
[12:46] <rodrigo_> ah, ok, but you want to get the new versions from the server
[12:46] <rodrigo_> so that's why I asked you to mv ~/.local/share/tomboy/* to some backup place
[12:46] <rodrigo_> thus, you'll get all the notes from the server
[12:47] <czajkowski> I did
[12:47] <rodrigo_> oh, then why it complains about a note with the same title?
[12:48] <czajkowski> hmm let me go check the folder
[12:50] <czajkowski> mm folder has been backed up
[12:52] <rodrigo_> oh
[12:52] <czajkowski> I have a few errands to do but will be back in a while. sorry
[12:55] <rodrigo_> czajkowski, ok
[13:24] <rickspencer3> seb128, hi
[13:36] <seb128> hey rickspencer3!
[13:37] <seb128> rickspencer3, how are you? it's very early, still jetlaged?
[13:37] <rickspencer3> seb128, oh yes
[13:37] <rickspencer3> I was up before 4am!
[13:37] <seb128> rickspencer3, I don't ask if you had a good flight back since I read that you apparently didn't :-(
[13:37] <rickspencer3> lol
[13:37]  * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
[13:37]  * rickspencer3 hugs back
[13:37]  * rickspencer3 wipes tear of self-pitty from eye
[13:37] <rickspencer3> I'm all better now!
[13:38] <seb128> good ;-)
[13:38] <rickspencer3> seb128, so, I guess we need to start cracking the whip?
[13:38] <seb128> yes!
[13:38] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[13:38] <rickspencer3> I guess first thing is a list of blueprints that we are targeting?
[13:38] <rickspencer3> hi pitti!
[13:38] <seb128> rickspencer3, I was just about to look at those, just finishing explain claims first to get paper work out of the way
[13:39] <rickspencer3> ah, right
[13:39] <rickspencer3> pitti, how is OEM services treating you?
[13:40] <pitti> I'm getting into it :)
[13:40] <rickspencer3> nice
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> are we still uploading SRU's to lucid-proposed and then pocket copying to maverick? (or should i be uploading stuff to lucid now?)
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3 seb128
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> s/lucid/maverick
[13:46] <chrisccoulson> d'oh
[13:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, yes
[13:47] <seb128> as long as maverick is in sync with lucid you can keep doing that
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[13:47] <seb128> it stops when the concerned source has maverick changes
[13:47] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> hey rickspencer3, how are you?
[13:48] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, fine
[13:48] <rickspencer3> nice jet lag, so up bright and early
[13:48] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, didrocks I think we should create a new blueprint:
[13:48] <rickspencer3> "Chromium on UNE"
[13:48] <didrocks> rickspencer3: right, should be a good idea (hi btw ;))
[13:48] <seb128> pitti, how does the work item tracker list things which are assigned to the desktop team?
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> heh, i was thinking that when i started mapping out the work that needs to happen ;)
[13:48] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks ;)
[13:49] <rickspencer3> kewl
[13:49] <seb128> pitti, does it takes specs which are assigned to any of the team member? or use the naming?
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: it'll appear as exactly that: a WI assigned to "canonical-desktop-team"
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: oh, you mean "things" == "spec", not "things" == "WI"
[13:49] <pitti> seb128: that should just work
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: usually they get assigned to a person, in which case it figures out the team of that person
[13:50] <seb128> pitti, http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.10.html
[13:50] <seb128> how do we populate that list I guess is my question
[13:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, should we have a specific blueprint for shotwell?
[13:50] <seb128> just by setting the serie goals?
[13:50] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes
[13:50] <pitti> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
[13:51] <rickspencer3> seb128, ack
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: the -ubuntu-10.10 one are the specs/WIs _milestoned_ to "ubuntu-10.10", i. e. to final
[13:51] <rickspencer3> I'll try to have a call with them this afternoon (the yorba guys)
[13:51] <pitti> we shouldn't do that just yet
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, same question still ;-) is the serie goal enough?
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, how does it figure that spec is desktop team land?
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, "accepted for maverick" is sufficient
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: because it's assigned to someone in the c-d-t
[13:52] <seb128> ok good
[13:52] <seb128> thanks!
[13:52]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[13:52] <seb128> pitti, do I have access to resetting the database or should I ping you about that once we have WIs listed?
[13:52] <pitti> seb128: it's running as me ATM, so please feel free to ping me
[13:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, do you think it's feasible to have a list of blueprints for each person by eod tomorrow?
[13:53] <rickspencer3> (eod today if you are US based?)
[13:53] <pitti> seb128: but all files are pitti:warthogs 775, so you should be able to as well
[13:53] <seb128> ie I guess we will spend this week writting WIs and then set the trendline next week
[13:53]  * rickspencer3 wants to get cracking
[13:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, blueprints yes
[13:53] <seb128> WIs by thursday evening
[13:53] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[13:53] <rickspencer3> seb128, shall I send an email to the team?
[13:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, please do
[13:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, also, I'd like folks to calculate their WI/week rate
[13:54] <rickspencer3> I'll send email in 30-60 mins.
[13:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, can you reminder people to set the assignee and and approver too while they are at it?
[13:54] <rickspencer3> yes
[13:54] <seb128> thanks
[14:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, in what form do you want people's list blueprints?
[14:06] <rickspencer3> an email to you or such?
[14:08] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[14:08] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
[14:09] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i have sick baby duty for a bit this morning... can we postpone our 1:1?
[14:09] <kenvandine> i am upgrading to maverick while holding him :)
[14:09] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, yes
[14:09] <kenvandine> thx
[14:09] <kenvandine> he has been throwing up since thursday :(
[14:10] <ccheney> good morning everyone
[14:10] <kenvandine> taking him back to dr today
[14:10] <kenvandine> hey ccheney
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> hey ccheney
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> hey kenvandine too
[14:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, email works fine, or just set me as approver works too
[14:11] <rickspencer3> seb128, how can we distinguish blueprints we are going to work on versus ones we won't?
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, but yeah, ask for people to email their list it will be clearer this way
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, "serie goal" set to maverick we will work on
[14:11] <seb128> rickspencer3, those are the ones who will get on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html
[14:11] <rickspencer3> ok
[14:12] <rickspencer3> so we'll set the series goal and set as approver
[14:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, ie set the serie goal for maverick for things we will be doing this cycle
[14:12] <seb128> yes
[14:13] <seb128> rickspencer3, I'm going to go through the list now and set the serie goals for the ones I know about already, we can then tweak if other suggestions get listed by tomorrow
[14:13] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[14:13] <seb128> np
[14:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, can anyone on the team set the series goal for blueprints, or will they have to ask you or I to do it?
[14:21] <seb128> I'm not sure since I've access
[14:21] <seb128> didrocks, ^ can you change serie goals?
[14:21] <seb128> or just suggest the goal and need somebody to accept it for you?
[14:22] <seb128> (or other non admin team members who want to try)
[14:22] <didrocks> seb128: seems that I can
[14:22] <didrocks> it's proposed
[14:23] <didrocks> "Proposed for maverick"
[14:23] <seb128> ok
[14:23] <seb128> rickspencer3, so they can suggest those and we need to approve them later
[14:23] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[14:23] <kenvandine> mvo, your fast!
[14:23] <didrocks> seb128: y/w
[14:24] <mvo> kenvandine: only for stuff that I like ;)
[14:24] <kenvandine> mvo, thx for merging that branch
[14:24] <kenvandine> :)
[14:24] <mvo> kenvandine: thanks for pushing it, its a cool idea
[14:25] <kenvandine> mvo, i might do some more tweaking
[14:25] <mpt> mvo, I'm about to archive a copy of the USC 2.0 spec and start revising for 3.0. Is that okay by you?
[14:25] <mvo> kenvandine: sure, just let me know (or push your branch)
[14:25] <kenvandine> will do
[14:25] <mvo> mpt: yes, maybe just rename the page to "SoftwareCenter-2.0" so that its archived in the current state?
[14:26] <mpt> ooh, MoinMoin has a "Copy Page" command, never noticed that before
[14:26] <mvo> mpt: the daily builds stuff will be super interessting for you I think, lots of stuff in mavericks s-c branch, but I guess you will want to wait a bit until you install it, until then we can create a daily-build ppa
[14:28] <mpt> mvo, why wait? :-) As long as it runs on 10.04
[14:29] <mvo> mpt: good point
[14:30] <mvo> the daily-build PPA support is currently not in edge yet afaik (at least the stuff that can build directly from a bzr branch)
[14:30] <mpt> mvo, is it due soon?
[14:31] <mvo> apparently, there was a lot of talk about it at uds
[14:31] <mvo> I need to check with dholbach, he is leading the documentation effort for it
[14:35] <mpt> ok
[14:38] <mpt> mvo, I copied the current spec to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter/2.0
[14:40] <mvo> ok, cool
[14:45] <mpt> This History section is pretty nifty :-)
[14:47] <mvo> yeah, kudos to olivier
[14:48] <mvo> its a great team
[14:48] <mpt> mvo, why is the trunk version number "1.1.21debian1"?
[14:49] <mvo> mpt: that is the version in maverick, right? that was a misguided autosync
[14:49] <mvo> mpt: bzr trunk should be 2.1.0
[14:50] <mpt> mvo, 1.1.21debian1 is what the About box says in bzr trunk
[14:51] <mvo> mpt: aha, the version string is auto-generated at build, could you run "python setup.py build" and see if that fixes it?
[14:51] <mpt> hm, I closed the window and the terminal command didn't exit...
[14:52] <mpt> mvo, yep, now it says 2.1.0 :-)
[14:53] <mvo> :)
[14:53] <mvo> cool
[14:53] <mvo> did I mention how excited I'm about the new stuff that is comming? its going to be awsome
[14:55] <kenvandine> mvo, the subprocess stuff was blocking the ui, is that a known problem or a bug i introduced :)
[14:55] <mvo> kenvandine: a bug you added, but it should be fixed in the bits that I commited
[14:55] <kenvandine> great
[14:56] <kenvandine> thx
[14:56] <mvo> kenvandine: so if you merge back from trunk it should be fine
[14:56] <kenvandine> awesome
[14:56] <mvo> kenvandine: there are some other minor modifcations, but only small stuff
[14:57] <mvo> kenvandine: a good name is needed, but I guess that is really hard "share" on its own may be confused with "share via a usb-key"
[14:57] <kenvandine> yeah, i was going to ask for feedback
[14:57] <kenvandine> same for the string that gets posted
[14:58]  * mvo nods
[14:58] <robert_ancell> seb128, can you look at the glib in bzr for maverick?  And feel free to add an endorsment on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication :)
[15:00] <dobey> hey mvo
[15:01] <mvo> hey dobey
[15:02] <qense> aquarius: Getting Things GNOME is planning for Ubuntu One support and a website/server. I'd say: why not combine those two!
[15:02] <tedg> james_w: I heard that there was a way to run your caching LP API thingy with bughugger... do you know if there's someplace I can find that?
[15:02] <kenvandine> qense, yeah... awesome!
[15:03] <james_w> tedg: I hadn't heard that
[15:03] <qense> kenvandine, aquarius: I'm not sure whether GTG will want to use Ubuntu One as the primary data source -- Ubuntu isn't the only distribution in the world -- but a sync option for the website/server would be neat.
[15:03] <kenvandine> james_w, someone told me you did that with bughugger ?
[15:03] <tedg> james_w: Hmm, that's no good because I can't remember who told me that -- I was hoping you'd know :)
[15:03] <qense> or maybe Ubuntu One could use the code of a GTG website.
[15:03] <aquarius> qense, the thought has crossed my mind, yes :-)
[15:03] <kenvandine> tedg, it was me...
[15:03] <tedg> james_w: Blame kenvandine! ;)
[15:03] <kenvandine> but i heard it from someone else
[15:04] <dobey> mvo: so you weren't in the ubuntuone login UI session at uds, but it was mentioned that software center a gtk+ ui to do authentication against the ubuntu SSO service. from that session, we're planning on pulling out our dbus auth service into a more general project to authenticate against the ubuntu SSO (and potentially do extra things, like the oauth pieces), and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on what we should nam
[15:04] <kenvandine> spreading rumors i guess
[15:04] <dobey> mvo: since we'd like to get everything in Ubuntu that needs to auth to the SSO, to use the same UI :)
[15:04] <james_w> kenvandine: if I had then I would have demoed that, as it would have been clearer what I was doing
[15:05] <kenvandine> :)
[15:05] <james_w> I'd love for someone to port it though
[15:05] <mvo> dobey: cool, I have gtk code that shows a login dialog etc (no need for webkit/browser). but I would love to stop maintaining that and just use a library :)
[15:05] <james_w> it's not entirely easy right now to use it though, as it depends on a patch to twisted that isn't in a released version yet.
[15:06] <mvo> dobey: I don't much care about the name, python-ubuntu-sso ?
[15:07] <tedg> james_w: Ah, is the patch likely to be in Maverick?
[15:07] <james_w> yes
[15:07] <mvo> dobey: my stuff is in lp:~mvo/sofware-center/reviews in case you are interessted in the code
[15:07] <james_w> it's in trunk, so we can just ask jml to make a release targeting maverick
[15:07] <dobey> mvo: i don't know if we'll provide a library. but we'll provide a dbus service that does auth, registration, etc... so you can just call the login() method (like we currently have for u1), and it will do all the right things and asynchronously tell you when its done, so you can move on to actually reading the data :)
[15:08] <mvo> dobey: aha, cool
[15:09] <mvo> dobey: I do need the actual token from it, will that still be possible ?
[15:10] <dobey> mvo: yes. we need to do some refactoring to make the UX super awesome for all the different things that might use it
[15:11] <tedg> james_w: Cool, then build from branch will backport it for me ;)
[15:11] <james_w> \o/
[15:11] <dobey> mvo: currently we just always store in the keyring, so you get a signal and have to poke the keyring, but currently we only support doing the oauth token fetching on ubuntu one, and not other services that might use the SSO :)
[15:12] <mvo> dobey: ok, I will follow that with interest, one less thing for me to worry about
[15:13] <dobey> mvo: and i'd like to refactor it so the kubuntu people can easily have a qt dialog instead :)
[15:13] <dobey> mvo: but we definitely want a unified sso experience in ubuntu with this
[15:24] <didrocks> seb128: the new evolution will take some time to merge. I have made all the library/plugins triaging right now (debian changed a lot too), and I have now to convert all our patches away from bono (for LPI support) and from glade to gtkbuilder. There are quite a lot
[15:56] <mpt> mvo, rickspencer3, tremolux, call in 5 minutes?
[15:56] <rickspencer3> mpt, sounds good, yeah
[15:56] <tremolux> mpt: sounds good
[15:56] <mvo> mpt: conf line or mumble?
[15:58] <mpt> tremolux, do you have a Mumble account yet?
[15:59] <tremolux> mpt: unfortunately, no, sorry, new accounts are apparently still on hold
[15:59] <mpt> ok, conf line it is
[16:00] <rickspencer3> mpt, I'm calling in now
[16:03]  * mvo really does not like the music
[16:03] <mvo> high time we get mumble accounts for everybody
[16:03] <mpt_> doo do doot do, do do do do-doot do
[16:03] <tremolux> mvo: yes!  man, this song sticks in my head alllll day
[16:03] <mvo> lallalalalalaaa
[16:04] <tremolux> it's entirely too cheerful
[16:04] <rickspencer3> mpt_, aren
[16:04] <rickspencer3> t we waiting for you?
[16:04] <rickspencer3> am I on the right call?
[16:04] <mpt_> rickspencer3, I'm on your line. Whose line are you on? :-)
[16:05] <rickspencer3> lol
[16:05] <rickspencer3> I'm on your line
[16:05]  * rickspencer3 dials into own line
[16:05] <mpt_> I don't have a line, I'm not a manager
[16:05] <rickspencer3> I got it from the invite
[16:05] <mvo> bää
[16:05] <mvo> I'm one mpts line
[16:05] <mvo> the one on the invitation
[16:05] <mpt_> oh crikey
[16:05] <tremolux> I'm on the invite line as well
[16:05] <mvo> someone need to give me a the new code if I need to re-dial
[16:05] <pitti> mpt_: seems you are a manager now :)
[16:05] <mvo> fast promotion!
[16:05]  * tremolux wants me mumble
[16:05] <mpt_> That's ivanka's line
[16:06] <mpt_> sorry
[16:06] <mpt_> I forgot that was still there
[16:06] <rickspencer3> okay
[16:06] <rickspencer3> switch to mine:
[16:06] <rickspencer3><PHONE_NUMBER>
[16:06] <tremolux> k
[16:13] <kenvandine> whew... rebooting into maverick... hopefully will brb
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[16:20] <Nafai> good morning
[16:20] <kenvandine> woot
[16:20] <kenvandine> all seems good
[16:20] <kenvandine> didrocks, when do you think there will be maverick builds of unity?
[16:20] <kenvandine> hey Nafai
[16:21] <didrocks> kenvandine: eow, I think
[16:21] <didrocks> hey Nafai
[16:21] <Nafai> Hi kenvandine
[16:21] <kenvandine> cook
[16:21] <Nafai> I think I caught a flu or something over the weekend :(
[16:21] <kenvandine> cool even :)
[16:21] <kenvandine> ubuflu!
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, no need to port the small screen patches to new evo for now
[16:21] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so only LPI is needed?
[16:21] <seb128> didrocks, the ui changed so they might be deprecated
[16:21] <didrocks> seb128: I was afraid by the bunch of work there :)
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, keep those somewhere in the source but not used
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, yes
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, if they are not deprecated oem will need to provide us updated changes since the changes come from them there
[16:22] <didrocks> ok, I'll try to see how the lp-bono can be ported to new upstream
[16:22] <seb128> didrocks, well as any other desktop component
[16:22] <didrocks> seb128: understood. Thanks! That makes my life much much much easier :)
[16:23] <seb128> use the standard lpi not the bonobo one
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, ;-)
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, welcome you are!
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: right, but upstream don't seem to use gtkbuilder for the menu, so a little bit more search is needed :)
[16:23] <didrocks> seb128: heh
[16:23] <seb128> didrocks, we have some other sources not using gtkbuilder, the lpi source might have an example too
[16:24] <seb128> didrocks, it's basically "get the menu widget and use the add function on it"
[16:24] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'll have a look at it, thanks (finishing e-d-s first)
[16:24] <seb128> didrocks, see gucharmap-lpint.patch in the lpi source
[16:25]  * didrocks notes that down
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items(à
[16:25] <seb128> ()
[16:25] <seb128> didrocks, it's only a one call to launchpad_integration_add_items()
[16:25] <seb128> I meant
[16:25] <didrocks> sweet, should be easy to do
[16:25] <didrocks> thanks again :)
[16:26] <seb128> you're welcome
[16:26] <seb128> session restart, brb
[16:38] <nigelb> hey seb128, congrats on being tech lead this cycle :)
[16:39] <seb128> hey nigelb, thanks!
[16:40] <nigelb> Are there anymore apps on default cd that need apport hooks?
[16:40] <nigelb> I was thinking of offereing that for mentorship on the bug squad list for anyone who's interested
[16:43] <seb128> need to think about that but most likely yes
[16:46] <nigelb> if you can poke me with a list later when you have time, I'll see that its worked on :)
[16:48] <seb128> nigelb, ok thanks
[16:49] <nigelb> :)
[16:49] <seb128> nigelb, I guess you could work gedit and nautilus for example
[16:49] <seb128> getting changed gconf values
[16:50] <nigelb> ok :)
[16:50] <tseliot> pitti: I would like to request an SRU for bug #580763 (and fix 540171 too). It would fix a rather annoying video corruption bug. Any objections?
[16:50] <pitti> tseliot: can you please subscribe ubuntu-sru and ask there? I (or another SRU member) will followup by mail
[16:51] <pitti> tseliot: without having looked at it, fixing video bugs is always nice if it doesn't introduce a regression potential
[16:51] <rickspencer3> pitti, can you paste me the link for your wiki page on how to specify work items in blueprints?
[16:51] <rickspencer3> the syntax, I mean
[16:51] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WorkItemsHowto
[16:51] <pitti> rickspencer3: ^
[16:51] <rickspencer3> thanks
[16:51] <tseliot> pitti: sure, it's what I planned on doing next. Thanks
[16:53] <Daviey> rickspencer3: Is there any way to predict how much cache bughugger needs to download for a given search?
[16:53] <Daviey> it's downloaded 20M so far.. :/
[16:53] <rickspencer3> Daviey, uh ...
[16:53] <rickspencer3> not so that I know, sorry
[16:53] <rickspencer3> tbh, I only use the json searches these days
[16:54] <Daviey> rickspencer3: yeah, i'm using a team sub'd package search, and it seems to be bigger than i expected :)
[16:54] <rickspencer3> yeah, those are BIG searches for sure
[16:54] <rickspencer3> lots of bug tasks
[16:54] <Daviey> oh well.. thanks :)
[16:54] <rickspencer3> I think a json search would serve you better
[16:54] <rickspencer3> which team is it?
[16:55] <Daviey> rickspencer3: ~ubuntu-server
[16:55] <rickspencer3> hmm
[16:55] <rickspencer3> is there not a json search set up for that already?
[16:55]  * rickspencer3 looks
[16:55] <Daviey> oh, there is!
[16:55] <rickspencer3> I am always one step ahead!
[16:56] <seb128> ;-)
[16:56] <Daviey> wow, that was "somewhat" faster
[16:56]  * Nafai curses the ubuflu
[16:57] <dobey> Nafai: i guess you didn't drink enough beer then :)
[16:58] <Nafai> heh.  nope, I don't drink :)
[16:58] <Daviey> thanks rickspencer3
[16:58] <mpt_> tremolux, remember to fill in foundations-m-software-center-roadmap
[16:58] <tremolux> mpt_: yep, thanks!
[17:01] <tremolux> mpt_: restored to gobby; I'll paste it to the whiteboard as well
[17:01] <mpt_> brilliant, thanks
[17:03] <didrocks> mvo: are you planning to do the zlib merge or can I steal it? The current one seems to not shipping a .pc file, which is a little bit… embarrassing :)
[17:03] <mvo> didrocks: you can have it
[17:04] <didrocks> mvo: yeah \o/
[17:19] <dieki> Hey, I had a quick question about the Software Center; At UDS it was stated that new applications will be added after release.
[17:19] <dieki> Does this include new versions of existing applications?
[17:20] <dieki> For instance, during the time between the release of Karmic and the release of Lucid, Firefox 3.6 was released, but there was no really easy way to get it.
[17:20] <dieki> Will new major versions be easily upgradable through the software center?
[17:21] <dobey> dieki: i suppose if Mozilla puts firefox packages in this new thing, or it gets into backports, yes. but i think the UDS discussion was about people writing new apps and getting them released to users of already released ubuntu
[17:22] <dieki> Okay.
[17:22] <dobey> dieki: in general, i don't think new major versions will be pushed via this new mechanism as a means for upgrading the distro
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> dieki - the process is not applicable for firefox anyway, as stable releases will be getting new upstream versions
[17:23] <dobey> but PPAs are a bit complex to require users to use
[17:23] <dieki> chriscoulson: Okay.
[17:23] <dobey> chrisccoulson: i think he was more asking about karmic getting 3.6 for example
[17:23] <chrisccoulson> karmic will be getting 3.6
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> as will hardy and jaunty
[17:24] <dieki> How so? Backports?
[17:24] <dobey> well yeah, firefox is special
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> dieki, no, via security
[17:24] <dobey> because it's usually a drastic change for security fixes, so they can't just be backported to 3.5 etc... easily
[17:24] <dieki> I see.
[17:24] <dieki> What about other applications?
[17:25] <dieki> Will old releases be getting, say, Thunderbird 3.0?
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> dieki, eventually, yes
[17:26] <dieki> So... did a major policy change occur?
[17:26] <dobey> dieki: i think you're looking at this the wrong way. old releases will be getting security updates in the same way they always have been, if they are supported as such for getting them
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> i think thats the plan for TB anyway
[17:26] <chrisccoulson> dieki, for mozilla, yes
[17:27] <dieki> Oh, okay. This doesn't affect other applications, say GIMP, then?
[17:27] <dobey> dieki: this new thing from UDS is about allowing "opportunistic developers" and such, easier methods for shipping software to ubuntu users
[17:27] <chrisccoulson> dieki, see https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
[17:27] <dobey> dieki: it doesn't affect anything already in ubuntu
[17:27] <dieki> Okay, I get it. Thanks.
[17:28] <dieki> But will there be any method to upgrade all the other applications? In Maverick, that is.
[17:29] <dieki> My understanding was that that couldn't be done because it would require the upgrades of system components, which would break other stuff. But adding new apps would do that too.
[17:30] <dobey> dieki: if your question is 'how do i always run bleeding edge' i think the answer is 'always run bleeding edge' :)
[17:31] <dieki> :)
[17:31] <dieki> I always run bleeding edge anyway.
[17:31] <dobey> dieki: new gnome/gimp/etc... will not get pushed to older versions of ubuntu
[17:31] <dieki> Okay.
[17:32] <dobey> would sort of defeat the purpose of having an LTS and such at that point :)
[17:33] <dieki> Yeah. But then what do we do with the people who want the newest version of OpenOffice\GIMP\Chrome\Whatever, and Ubuntu doesn't have it in it's repos?
[17:33] <dieki> Is that what PPAs are supposed to be for?
[17:34] <dobey> the answer is "build it yourself, subscribe to a PPA that has it, or run the devel ubuntu"
[17:35] <dobey> or "install via some other means, because you're likely to anyway"
[17:35] <dobey> for example the firefox install script they give you from getfirefox.com, etc...
[17:35] <dieki> Well, I suppose that is the only way to do it and keep the system stable.
[17:35] <dobey> if you care about keeping the system stable, you're not running the "latest" of those anyway
[17:36] <dieki> True.
[17:36] <dobey> and you're probably only running LTS releases
[17:37] <dieki> In which case the situation gets worse, though, since you have to wait two years to get a modern version of OpenOffice.
[17:37] <dieki> And the stable versions released inbetween were probably sstable.
[17:37] <dieki> *stable
[17:38] <dobey> if you care that much about openoffice, it's probably because you're doing a lot with it, and your corporate IT support infrastructure probably has some plan for you to get it
[17:38] <dobey> or you don't care about stability as much as you claim, and you're not going to stick on LTS for 2 years :)
[17:38] <vish> seb128: hi.. for Maverick , could you update lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release ? fixes a few minor problems/bugs
[17:39] <dieki> I'm thinking more about the non-techie users I'm setting up systems for.
[17:39] <dieki> What I have seen, and this may not at all be typical, is that the user's friend will say "Hey, have you checked out the latest version of <insert app name here>? It's totally cool"
[17:40] <dieki> And then the user says "No, I haven't, let me run the update manager and get that"
[17:40] <dieki> And then... they can't.
[17:40] <dieki> But then this may not be a normal scenario, I haven't done any real studies on it.
[17:43] <dieki> And the only applications I've seen this for were the Mozilla ones, which will now be updated to stable releases. :)
[17:46] <dobey> well
[17:46] <dobey> that's a harder problem to solve
[17:46] <dobey> because in windows you don't have update manager and standard distribution channels, you have random exe or msi downloads
[17:47] <dieki> Yeah. They took the easy way out. :)
[17:47] <dobey> the right solution is getting <randomapp> that's latest and cool to provide packages for ubuntu
[17:47] <dobey> well, apple took the easy way out
[17:47] <dobey> they just control everything that you can install on the ipad/ipod/iphone :)
[17:48] <dieki> But even if they do, won't <randomapp>'s packages not be included until the next release?
[17:48] <dieki> :D I don't see how that makes it much easier, but I'm not too familiar with how their system works.
[17:49] <dobey> dieki: they won't necessarily be included at all
[17:49] <dobey> dieki: but that's what PPAs and apt repos are for
[17:49] <dieki> Even if <randomapp> was already in?
[17:49] <dobey> and this is how we delivered ubuntu one to jaunty users for example
[17:50] <dobey> ubuntu one is in ubuntu
[17:50] <dobey> but we also provide some PPAs for nightlies or newer stable builds for karmic for example
[17:50] <dieki> Yeah.
[17:51] <dobey> they'll be a bit better organized soon, but it's the only way to do what you're suggesting
[17:51] <dobey> well, only good way
[17:51] <dobey> we could also put .deb files on random web servers and have people just install them instead
[17:52] <sash_> nice idea :)
[17:52] <dieki> My thought was that new stable versions might be included in the software center next to the old stable version. That way, if the user wants the new stable version, the can install it. (Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed)
[17:53] <sash_> "Dependencies would of course be set up so as to remove the old stable version if installed" <- thats not that easy
[17:53] <dobey> dieki: PPAs show up in the software center
[17:54] <dobey> sash_: it is that easy. just put them in a PPA. problem is new dependencies might end up removing a lot of other things the user cares about :)
[17:55] <dieki> sash_: How hard is it? I had thought that dependencies could specify packages to be removed.
[17:56] <sash_> but what if appA from ppa depends on libXY0-1.1 and appB from standard-repos depends on libXY0-1.08
[17:56] <sash_> and both libs cannot be installed at the same time?
[17:57] <dieki> Hm. That is a problem. But how does the new system of adding applications after release get around that?
[17:57] <dieki> Might one of the new applications depend on libXY0-1.1?
[17:57] <dieki> Or will apps like that not be allowed?
[17:58] <sash_> in a stable release, that should not happen. and even doesnt afaik ;)
[17:58] <dobey> dieki: the new system doesn't get around it. it's not a way to subvert the existing system, it's a way to deploy new apps to it
[17:59] <sash_> dieki: in a stable-releases, programs have no upgrades, except safety
[17:59] <dobey> dieki: the system you're deploying to is the sdk, you need to work with what's in ubuntu, not replace it
[17:59] <dieki> Okay. Wow. This is far more complicated than I could have imagined.
[17:59] <dieki> :)
[17:59] <dobey> no, it's really rather simple
[17:59] <dobey> you're just trying to make it complicated :)
[18:00] <dieki> :)
[18:00] <dieki> I mean, what I'm trying to do is complicated. :)
[18:00] <dieki> I wonder how Apple does it.
[18:00] <dobey> you don't ship new windows applications to users by sending them an upgrade disc :)
[18:00] <dobey> apple doesn't do it
[18:01] <dieki> iPhone apps don't get major upgrades?
[18:01] <dobey> apple controls what is shipped in their OS
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: "major upgrade" is a rather inconsequential view for iphone
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: you can't replace the kernel on iphone to make your app upgrade work, no :)
[18:02] <dobey> dieki: you get to use the APIs provided by the system and nothing else
[18:03] <dieki> Ohh... because they control everything, they can pretend libXY-1.1 doesn't exist.
[18:03] <dieki> Because it doesn't.
[18:04] <dieki> Well, I thank you for explaining this all to me.
[18:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, here'
[18:19] <rickspencer3> s a draft: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/WorkItemProcess
[18:19]  * rickspencer3 leaves for gym
[18:33] <pitti> good night everyone!
[18:33] <rickspencer3> 'night pitti
[18:34] <didrocks> good night pitti
[18:35] <seb128> re
[18:35] <seb128> 'night pitti
[18:35] <seb128> vish, it's early for maverick, I've not upgraded yet, will have to wait a bit
[18:35] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[18:36] <vish> seb128: np , ok.. mainly wanted to get it done for an SRU for Lucid of for  10.04.1 atleast
[18:37] <vish> s/of/or
[18:37] <seb128> vish, doing sru is easier there
[18:38] <seb128> get the change uploaded as a sru to lucid-proposed then get it copying to maverick automatically from there
[18:38] <vish> oh..
[18:38] <seb128> there is no point to do 2 uploads
[18:39] <vish> seb128: hmm, how do i get it uploaded to lucid-proposed? [  tried to read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates and thought +1 and then sru was the way]
[18:39] <chrisccoulson> bah, gnome-screensaver really doesn't work at all in kvm
[18:40] <seb128> vish, do what is written on this wiki but don't bother about +1
[18:40] <vish> seb128: neat thanks..
[18:40] <seb128> in practice we often do upload as a sru and copy to +1 on soyuz
[18:40] <seb128> the wikipage should perhaps get updated
[18:56] <seb128> didrocks, pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RobertAncell/CoreDevApplication
[19:14] <ccheney> pitti: i noticed the ddebs openoffice.org packages aren't available for amd64, is there a way to fix that, or is someone else in charge of ddebs now?
[19:31] <Sarvatt> anyone interested in a *massive* speedup of xchat's scrollback reloading speed? It dropped the load time from close to a minute at 100% cpu usage down to ~4 seconds here with 32 channels worth on this atom CPU. http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xchat_2.8.6-4ubuntu6.debdiff
[19:34] <Sarvatt> it's just a backport of an upstream commit and will probably be a few more years until there's another x-chat release with it :D
[19:42] <Sarvatt> things building with dh_gconf in maverick currently are pulling in a unfulfillable gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2) dependency when we have 2.28.1-0ubuntu1, should I file a bug against debhelper about it?
[19:42] <Sarvatt> i've got maximus xchat-common mutter-common simple-scan tomboy update-notifier and update-notifier-common built in maverick all uninstallable because of it
[19:43] <kklimonda> why not upgrade gconf to the new unstable version?
[19:46] <Sarvatt> thats why I was asking if I should file a bug against debhelper or just wait for gconf to be updated, i dont think we'd ever have 2.28.1-2 anyway
[19:47] <Sarvatt> the debhelper changelog for maverick mentioned lowering the requirement in dh_gconf to fix it but it still has addsubstvar($package, "misc:Depends", "gconf2 (>= 2.28.1-2)") unless $gconf_dep;
[19:51] <seb128> Sarvatt, I will resync gconf2
[19:52] <Sarvatt> \o/ thanks seb128
[21:03] <didrocks> well, evolution 2.30 is crashy there :/ will have a look tomorrow
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[21:05] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> how are you doing?
[21:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, evolution stack took a long time to update, apart from that, I'm fine, thanks :) You?
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> i'm trying to make gnome-screensaver work in kvm right now
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> looking forward to start on maverick, but that could be a long time away ;)
[21:06] <didrocks> is there really a use case for gnome-screensaver in kvm? :)
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i'm not sure. currently it crashes when you try and lock the screen
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> but it could crash outside of kvm if the X extensions required for fading aren't there
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> (eg, on LTSP)
[21:07] <didrocks> urgh
[21:08] <didrocks> grrr, I can't get my emails now as evo is crashing when clicking on any email
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's not good
[21:10] <didrocks> clearly not :/
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver works in kvm now though ;)
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> that doesn't help with your e-mails though
[21:12] <didrocks> not at all, to be honest ;)
[21:12] <didrocks> it's not a crash, it's a hang, hence the fact it's not easy to debug
[21:38]  * ccheney back from doctor, that took entirely too long, he prescribed medicine my insurance wouldn't cover so had to go back and have him rewrite it :-\
[22:05] <lowje> Hi
[22:14] <rickspencer3> hi lowje
[23:03] <Sarvatt> Setting up gconf2 (2.28.1-3ubuntu1) ...
[23:03] <Sarvatt> WARNING: Failed to parse default value `[????????? ???????;gnome-appearance-properties.desktop,????????? ???????????? ???????????;gnome-default-applications.desktop,?????????? ??????????;system-config-printer.desktop] ' for schema (/schemas/apps/control-center/cc_actions_list)
[23:03] <Sarvatt> hmm
[23:18] <lowje> I found a bug about gnome-panel on the LiveCD of Lucid but according to https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel, "Desktop panel for GNOME does not use Launchpad for bug tracking". Where am I supposed to report?
[23:28] <lowje> noone knows? :s
[23:39] <pochu> lowje: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel
[23:49] <lowje> thanks pochu


[20:13] <falktx> howdy!
[20:24] <dtchen> 'lo
[22:33] <scott-work> astraljava: how is the mudita42 packaging going?
[22:33] <scott-work> astraljava: do you have it in ppa where someone could use it?


[05:38] <gokulnath> Hello, this is my upstart script -->> http://pastie.org/2389884
[05:38] <gokulnath> But when I rebooted the machine the process was not started
[08:05] <samarama> hi
[08:05] <samarama> how can i find out whether my system already uses upstart or not?
[08:06] <jhunt> what does "which initctl" return?
[08:06] <jhunt> actually "ls /sbin/initctl" is safer
[08:08] <samarama> i dont know wheter my system uses sysvinit or upstart. is there a way to find out?
[08:08] <jhunt> If you have initctl installed, you are more than likely using upstart.
[08:09] <jhunt> what O/S is it?
[08:09] <samarama> ubuntu 10.04 lts
[08:09] <jhunt> you're using upstart then :)
[08:11] <samarama> ok. thx. on a sidenote: is there no way to find that out by checking the system itself? like some entry in /proc or somethin?
[08:11] <pmjdebruijn> samarama: dpkg -l upstart ?
[08:13] <pmjdebruijn> though that just checks if it's installed, not if it's actually being used
[08:13] <jhunt> the problem isn't detecting upstart, it's detecting that the system *isn't* upstart.
[08:13] <jhunt> Upstart supports "/sbin/init --version"
[08:14] <jhunt> ... but that will do bad things on some SysV systems as they might ignore "--version".
[08:15] <jhunt> you could run "strings /sbin/init" and parse the output (since SysV encodes an ident string usually and upstart has a string that encodes the output of "/sbin/init --version".
[08:16] <jhunt> not though that the strings idea isn't reliable for the same reason as mentioned by pmjdebruijn - you might get back the wrong version details if init was recently upgraded.
[17:06] <flu-> Does it make sense to continue using my /etc/init.d script after converting the service over to use upstart? I have some specific functionality in that script (starting with profiler hooks enabled for instance) that I'm having trouble duplicating with upstart
[17:06] <flu-> so I guess a related question is, can I have arbitrary script stanzas that file on particular events?
[17:29] <JanC> flu-: do you mean that you want other actions than start & stop?
[17:30] <flu-> correct
[17:30] <flu-> To put it in concrete terms, my existing /etc/init.d service templates respond to start, stop, restart, start-profiler and start-foreground
[17:30] <flu-> the latter two used for diagnosing issues with the service
[17:31] <JanC> one thing you could do is make a second job that starts the service with profiling
[17:31] <flu-> and perhaps stop any existing instance before starting?
[17:32] <JanC> or you could use arguments to enable profiling
[17:37] <flu-> I think I like the argument approach
[17:37] <flu-> I could then test if some environment variable is set in my script stanza, correct?
[17:37] <JanC> yes
[17:43] <flu-> nice. Think this will work just fine, thanks for the help JanC
[18:33] <pmjdebruijn> hi again
[18:33] <pmjdebruijn> does anybody here know if there an easy way to _safely_ delay the tty's
[18:34] <pmjdebruijn> I rather wouldn't depend them on something else (and risk not getting them at all because of an unsatisfied dependancy)
[18:34] <pmjdebruijn> part of my current (small) problem is that the tty's pop up with the wrong hostname which is set during the boot process (based on reverse dns)
[18:34] <pmjdebruijn> often a tty pops up with localhost still
[18:35] <pmjdebruijn> I wouldn't mean just delaying them 60 seconds or so
[20:55] <flu-> So I've created a new upstart job in /etc/init/commerce.conf, but I'm not seeing it in the output from 'initctl list'. I tried 'initctl reload-configuration' but it still doesn't show, what else can I check to see what's happening here?
[20:58] <JanC> flu-: most likely a syntax error
[20:59] <flu-> I completely agree... being that I'm on aws, I don't have a way to turn up the upstart verbosity through grub. Does it log somewhere else that I could check?
[21:00] <JanC> you can change the verbosity with initctl too
[21:03] <flu-> nice!
[21:06] <flu-> That was extremely helpful
[21:08] <JanC> oh, and it logs to syslog
[21:08] <JanC> at least in Ubuntu
[21:40] <flu-> yeah it did
[21:40] <flu-> pointed me to the offensive line
[21:55] <JanC> ☺


[12:05] <Kyral> lol
[12:05] <Kyral> We all do our parts :D
[12:53] <Burgwork> Kyral, it is your wiki as well as mine
[12:53] <Kyral> ah
[12:53] <Burgwork> sorry, was on the phone at work here
[12:53] <Kyral> but you are DocTeam god or something along those lines
[01:30] <Kyral> hey LJ(again ;P)
[01:33] <LaserJock> hi Kyral, what are you doing here?
[01:33] <Kyral> I'm technically signed up for the Install Guide :D
[01:33] <Kyral> but since the new installer doesn't exist yet...
[01:34] <LaserJock> ahh
[01:35] <Kyral> So I'm doing whatever needs to be helped with
[01:35] <Kyral> Was renovating the Emacs wikipage...then my computer crashed before I could save it
[01:36] <Kyral> So thats on the docket for tomorrow
[01:36] <LaserJock> well lucas has gone wild on the MOTU wiki pages
[01:37] <LaserJock> hopefully that works out
[01:37] <Kyral> lol
[01:40] <Kyral> Yah I was rummaging in CategoryCleanup
[01:46] <Kyral> saw the pathetic excuse of a page for Emacs
[01:46] <Kyral> and couldn't let the injustice slip :D
[01:47] <LaserJock> Kyral: going to do a vim page next ;-)
[01:47] <Kyral> hell no
[01:48] <LaserJock> maybe I would have to do that
[01:49] <nickrud> a vim page for writing doc book would be gratefully read :)
[01:51] <LaserJock> nickrud: there is a little bit of a vim docbook page but it doesn't have much
[01:56] <jsgotangco> does anyone of you guys use emacs planner-el?
[01:56] <Kyral> nope
[02:08] <nickrud> LaserJock, I've read that one, and it didn't help much, either.  What hurdles are you finding?
[02:27] <nickrud> it's mostly the mechanics of formatting; actually, a quality guide to using nmxl in emacs (written from the emacs newbie perspective) would be nice
[02:27] <nickrud> maybe next year I'll be in a position to give some useful feedback on that
[04:19] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/News2
[04:19] <Burgundavia> created a new page to start writing the next version
[04:50] <Burgundavia> bon soir, robitaille
[04:50] <robitaille> Hi Burgundavia
[06:04] <Madpilot> robitaille: evidently the CCAgenda page had a mistake in the text, not in the link like I assumed... :P
[10:31] <mdke> morning all
[10:31] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[10:33] <jsgotangco> hi
[10:34] <Madpilot> so I put my name down for membership @ the next CC meeting - hopefully some of the DocTeam can make it?
[10:35] <mdke> great news
[10:35] <mdke> i can't make it but I'll leave a msg with Kamion as I usually do :)
[10:36] <mdke> bshumate, you are a GOD
[10:36] <mdke> Madpilot, there will be absolutely no problem with your membership, I'm certain
[10:37] <Madpilot> mdke: thanks!
[10:43] <jsgotangco> that open ssh wiki page is pure joy
[10:45] <mdke> yep
[10:46] <mdke> the wiki in general is improving a lot
[10:49] <mdke> Madpilot, jsgotangco, are your wiki email notifications arriving?
[10:49] <Madpilot> yes - I'm not subbed to that many pages, though
[10:49] <Madpilot> I'm not insane enough to sub to the entire thing like some people :P
[10:50] <jsgotangco> yep its ok with me i still get 200+ emails a day
[10:50] <mdke> hmm
[10:50] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: you must have had fun when Burgundavia had his insane editing spree over Xmas...
[10:51] <jsgotangco> jeezz
[10:51] <jsgotangco> that was insane
[10:51] <jsgotangco> it was obvious that the man was lonely during the holidays
[10:51] <mdke> Madpilot, nice work on all those screenshots btw
[10:52] <Madpilot> thanks - the Gnome screenshot util makes it stupidly easy, once I discovered ALT+PrntScrn
[10:52] <Madpilot> jsgotangco: he was trapped at home recovering from minor surgery, actually :P
[10:54] <mdke> man Burgundavia, you put EVERYTHING in cleanup ;)
[10:54] <mdke> what's wrong with FrostWireHowTo?
[10:55] <Madpilot> in November CatCleanup was about 180 items, IIRC, now it's 350+
[10:56] <mdke> yeah
[10:58] <mdke> hmmm
[10:59] <mdke> what do people think about the creation of the CategoryNetworking?
[11:00] <Madpilot> sounds good to me
[11:00] <Madpilot> it might help gather up the bits and pieces that're still around the wireless & modem sections
[11:00] <mdke> yeah, there is a guy doing some good work on those by the look of things
[11:00] <mdke> ToddLambert
[11:01] <mdke> he has created that category and is cleaning up those pages
[11:01] <mdke> I msged him in the forums but no answer
[11:04] <Madpilot> was he the guy who rebuilt the modem section?
[11:04] <mdke> nope, different one
[11:04] <mdke> argh! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpOnProcessingInstructions is missing
[11:05] <mdke> that's a system page, how can it disappear
[11:12] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OrphanedPages <-- if anyone wants a LONG page of stuff that needs tweaking, here's a 1600+ item list :D
[11:13] <Madpilot> a lot of those are probably redirect pages, though
[11:15] <mdke> and home pages
[11:17] <Madpilot> those should be in CatHomepage, though
[11:18] <mdke> does that stop them showing up in OrphanedPages?
[11:18] <Madpilot> it should, it means they're linked to from the CatHomepage page
[11:19] <mdke> they are not linked to from the CatHomepage page, they just appear there as the result of a search macro
[11:19] <mdke> they are not actually in the text of it
[11:21] <Madpilot> yeah, you're right - because AaronFarias is in CatHomepage, but also OrphanPages...
[11:21] <mdke> yeah
[11:22] <Madpilot> odd...
[11:23] <mdke> ?
[11:25] <Madpilot> so merely categorizing something won't move it out of Orphans - interesting
[11:26] <mdke> sure, that page is just for pages which are not linked anywhere
[11:26] <Madpilot> right, and the category pages themselves don't count as links
[11:26] <mdke> nope
[11:27] <mdke> they are like tags
[11:27] <Madpilot> how very Web2.0 :P
[11:28] <Madpilot> anyway, I need sleep... suddenly it's almost 0230 here... talk to you later
[11:28] <mdke> night
[01:52] <bhuvan> /quit/quit
[01:52] <highvoltage> hehe
[02:18] <highvoltage> hi, and happy new year, edubuntu-doc!
[02:19] <highvoltage> anyone here know what the official ubuntu way is to create and restore backups?
[02:19] <highvoltage> hi jsgotangco
[02:20] <jsgotangco> highvoltage, hey! happy new year!
[02:20] <jsgotangco> back to work eh?
[02:21] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: happy new year to you too!
[02:22] <highvoltage> not yet, i'm connected with gprs atm.
[02:22] <highvoltage> jsgotangco: do you know if there's an "official" ubuntu way of doing backups in ubuntu?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> highvoltage, none really
[02:22] <jsgotangco> we don't have graphical tools at all (in gnome)
[02:23] <mdke> sbackup?
[02:23] <highvoltage> that's a bit sucky
[02:23] <mdke> i think it is a graphical tool
[02:23] <highvoltage> mdke: it's not installed by default on ubuntu, is it?
[02:23] <highvoltage> mdke: and happy new year to you too :)
[02:24] <mdke> highvoltage, no, and same
[02:25] <jsgotangco> i think the best candidate would be a tool that is in main
[02:26] <jsgotangco> (no idea what that is at the moment)
[02:27] <mdke> sbackup was developed as part of the ubuntu Google Summer of Code initiative i think
[02:27] <mdke> but more work is being done, I've heard
[02:27] <highvoltage> i'm finishing up some documentation for tuxlabs, which will become edubuntu documentation when it's closer to finished. so it needs to be main as far as possible.
[02:27] <highvoltage> i think i'll talk about raid 1 and mention some of the tools in universe
[02:28] <highvoltage> and perhaps some other basic, even though crude ways like using CD's/DVD's and dd'ing your one disk to another at midnight.
[02:28] <jsgotangco> that would be a clever hack
[02:29] <highvoltage> the dd thing?
[02:29] <highvoltage> what i like about that above raid, is that you don't loose so much disk bandwidth.
[02:29] <highvoltage> (which is very important in ltsp situations)
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i feel guilty for not reviewing what's in svn lately, but i still update it every time
[03:51] <jsgotangco> i should manage my time and do at least a review on a weekend :(
[04:03] <jjesse> grin don't feel guitly sometimes i don't look at things for a couple of days
[04:48] <Burgundavia> mdke, because I can; )
[04:49] <mdke> Burgundavia, doesn't mean it's right though
[04:50] <Kyral> Morning DocTeam
[04:51] <mdke> morning Kyral
[04:53] <Burgundavia> mdke, there was something that caught my eye, forget waht
[04:53] <Burgundavia> note that that SSH howot was the first brandnew doc I have not added to Cleanup
[04:54] <mdke> that kinda removes the meaning of the category
[04:54] <Burgundavia> not really
[04:54] <mdke> if every doc goes in there, there is no distinction between ready, and not ready
[04:55] <Burgundavia> not every doc is in there
[04:55] <mdke> we need to be reasonable and understand that no page is perfect, but putting too much stuff in cleanup will not be helpful
[04:55] <Burgundavia> that is also why I broke out NeedsExpansion
[04:56] <jjesse> can i ask a stupid question?
[04:56] <Burgundavia> jjesse, shot
[04:56] <Burgundavia> shoot, even
[04:56] <jjesse> what is the point of categories?
[04:56] <jjesse> i mean if i'm looking for something i don't look in a category, i just search
[04:56] <Burgundavia> to make navigation easier
[04:56] <Burgundavia> because some people will use them
[04:56] <mdke> you can create lists of pages tagged with specific categories
[04:59] <jjesse> so if i was looking for laptop help i could look for everything that has a reference to laptops
[05:00] <irvin> Burgundavia = Corey Burger ?
[05:00] <Burgundavia> irvin, thats me
[05:00] <irvin> quick question: if i add a new entry to the wiki should i add the category or will i wait for you?
[05:00] <Burgundavia> irvin, go ahead and Be Bold!
[05:02] <irvin> looking into CategoryCleanup, where can i find the standards documentation?
[05:05] <Burgundavia> irvin, you mean a style guide?
[05:05] <Burgundavia> or a page that tells you when to remove it from CatCleanup?
[05:06] <irvin> what do you mean by this one: from CategoryCleanup, "This category lists pages that (1) do not follow the standards of documentation,"
[05:06] <Burgundavia> ah
[05:06] <Burgundavia> they don't follow our style guide or only tell part of the picture
[05:06] <irvin> i see
[05:07] <Burgundavia> in practice, often they are not abstracted to deal with more than just the one situation the writer ran into
[05:10] <Burgundavia> anyway, I have to go to work. irvin, directly any further questions at Burgwork, so I can answer them at work
[05:10] <irvin> ok thanks
[06:15] <Burgwork> how do I get grep to supress the normal output and return 1 or 0 if it has found something?
[07:02] <Burgwork> jjesse, ping
[07:17] <mdke> Burgundavia, you can point people to WikiGuide if they ask about style
[07:18] <Burgwork> mdke, ya, was trying to remember which page it was
[07:18] <mdke> :)
[07:18] <Burgwork> don't ask me, I don't know where the style guide is
[07:21] <mdke> it's linked on WikiGuide
[07:22] <Burgwork> yes, I realize that
[07:22] <Burgwork> I was joking. Actually, I have never read the style guide
[07:25] <mdke> we need to have something about when pages should be in CatCleanup on the WIkiGuide page
[07:25] <mdke> that way people can easily find authoritative clarification on how it works
[07:25] <mdke> but we need to decide ourselves what definition we want first, I suppose
[07:29] <Burgwork> "anything that is crap"?
[07:29] <Burgwork> how about this:
[07:29] <Burgwork> badly formatted, incomplete or incorrect information, too specific
[07:30] <mdke> too specific?
[07:30] <mdke> the first bit sounds good
[07:32] <Burgwork> too specific: something that only pertains to that can be better abstracted elsewhere, such as a installing wine for all windows programs
[07:33] <mdke> i don't follow
[07:33] <mdke> there is material we don't want?
[07:34] <Burgwork> hmm
[07:34] <Burgwork> what I mean is we don't want a page for every bloody type of network card
[07:34] <Burgwork> when that could better be done in a single page
[07:35] <Burgwork> oh, another thing: doesn't properly explain the topic
[07:35] <Burgwork> ala https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChillispotHotspot
[07:36] <mdke> i think we need to realise that a wiki page will never be perfect
[07:36] <mdke> anyway, perhaps we can discuss this by mail, or at the next meeting, or something
[07:36] <Burgwork> next meeting
[07:36] <Burgwork> yes
[07:37] <mdke> cool
[08:07] <jjesse> Burgwork: sorry was in another room
[08:46] <BearHunter> hello everyone
[08:47] <Burgwork> salut BearHunter
[08:47] <BearHunter> I am going to install ububtu as a file/print server to connect to a few windows xp boxes . . .
[08:47] <Burgwork> are looking for help?
[08:47] <BearHunter> just a few questions
[08:47] <BearHunter> am i in the right room?
[08:47] <Burgwork> best to ask in #ubuntu , as this is not a support channel
[08:48] <BearHunter> ok thanks
[08:48] <Burgwork> np


[05:56] <soniku> Good evening! I hear this real-time kernel is pretty nifty. Anybody know anything about it?
[08:28] <jo-erlend> should it be ok to connect two microphones to a single mic input using a splitter?
[08:28] <bc81> hey there.  i'm on Ubuntu 10.10 & trying to get this MIDI input device (http://www.ionaudio.com/discoverkeyboardusb) working with milkytracker.  the keyboard works in other programs (VMPK, Piano Booster etc.) but not milky.  any tips, i've been searching around all day..can't figure this one out
[08:43] <AutoStatic> jo-erlend: If the mic input is stereo then it's no problem if you split it to 2x mono
[08:44] <AutoStatic> bc81: MilkyTracker and MIDI is very, very iffy
[08:45] <AutoStatic> Which version of Milky does 20.20 have?
[08:45] <AutoStatic> 10.10 I mean
[08:55] <bc81> AutoStatic: not sure what it was, i upgraded to the latest with a ppa (MIDI not working in either version)
[08:56] <AutoStatic> Which PPA?
[08:57] <bc81> AutoStatic: i used the one that waslinked from the milkytracker download page: https://launchpad.net/~philip5/+archive/extra
[08:58] <AutoStatic> Ah ok, that shoudl work, I've used that one too for 10.04
[08:58] <AutoStatic> ^^should
[08:58] <AutoStatic> SOme times it works, sometimes it doesn't, not sure why
[08:58] <AutoStatic> That doesn't help you of course
[08:59] <AutoStatic> Your MIDI connections are set up right?
[09:00] <bc81> well, that's just the thing i don't know how to set them up.  to get them working with the other programs i mentioned, i just started fluidsynth in a terminal and everything worked fine
[09:00] <bc81> is there some kind of software i can use to set up MIDI connections?
[09:03] <AutoStatic> aconnectgui
[09:04] <AutoStatic> Or if you use JACK, QjackCtl and then the ALSA tab of the Connections window
[09:15] <bc81> AutoStatic: ok, got the JACK running..in the ALSA tab of connections..now what?  there's a "MIDI through" and "ION Laptop Piano" in each column, i tried running VMPK but now it's not working where earlier it was with fluidsynth in a terminal
[09:16] <bc81> this is so convoluted
[09:17] <AutoStatic> He he, it's not comvoluted, it's modular ;)
[09:17] <AutoStatic> ^^convoluted
[09:18] <AutoStatic> You want to use FluidSynth with your MIDI keyboard?
[09:19] <AutoStatic> Or MilkyTracker?
[09:19] <AutoStatic> And did you try aconnectgui? I ask this because MilkyTracker does support JACK but only after some tweaking.
[09:20] <bc81> ok, i;ll try aconnectgui again..i want to use midi keybord with milkytracker
[09:23] <bc81> haha got it! thanks man..whew that only took all day
[09:23] <AutoStatic> The MilkyTracker MIDI connection is called RtMidi Input Client btw
[09:23] <AutoStatic> Ah cool!
[09:24] <bc81> yea, it wan't all connected i just had to go out from piano into midi through port-0
[09:24] <bc81> that was the missing step
[09:25] <bc81> my next question, any way to start these different software and have them automatically make the proper connections in aconnectgui?
[09:26] <AutoStatic> You could use a little script
[09:26] <AutoStatic> There are session managers, but they only work with JACK
[09:26] <AutoStatic> And JACK and MilkyTracker needs some fiddling
[09:30] <AutoStatic> Something like this:
[09:31] <AutoStatic> #!/bin/bash
[09:31] <AutoStatic> milkytracker &
[09:31] <AutoStatic> vmpk &
[09:31] <AutoStatic> sleep 2
[09:31] <AutoStatic> aconnect VMPK RtMidi
[09:31] <AutoStatic> That starts MilkyTracker and VMPK, then waits 2 seconds so those apps can start and then it connects the VMPK output with the MilkyTracker MIDI input
[09:35] <bc81> AutoStatic: that's brilliant, thanks.  just what i needed to get started in this stuff.  only problem i'm having with that is VMPK only makes sound when fluidsynth is started, i'm going to try adding a line in that script.  see i don't know what is and isn't compatible, there's so much to learn
[09:36] <bc81> no, when i do that still no sound in VMPK, and input not recognized in milky
[09:37] <bc81> maybe its the command used to start fluidsynth: fluidsynth -g 2 -C 0 -R 0 -r 22050 -c 6 -z 128 -l -a alsa -o audio.alsa.device=plughw:0 -o midi.alsa_seq.id=fs /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GS.sf2
[09:37] <AutoStatic> VMPK is a virtual MIDI keyboard, it doesn't make any sound by itself
[09:37] <AutoStatic> I've never used fluidsynth from the command line so I'm not sure
[09:38] <bc81> there's a GUI?
[09:38] <AutoStatic> Try Qsynth
[09:38] <bc81> ok
[09:38] <AutoStatic> Or jack-dssi-host fluidsynth.so
[09:38] <AutoStatic> from the command line
[09:39] <AutoStatic> Both apps need JACK to run though
[09:39] <AutoStatic> Ah, no, Qsynth can also run with just ALSA
[09:40] <AutoStatic> qsynth -a alsa
[09:41] <AutoStatic> Oops, I meant jack-dssi-host fluidsynth-dssi.so if you want to use the FluidSynth DSSI plug-in as stand-alone app.
[09:46] <bc81> AutoStatic: i get errors for that command (after installing the package dssi-host-jack) http://pastebin.com/28UvtmQp
[09:49] <AutoStatic> sudo apt-get install fluidsynth-dssi
[09:53] <bc81> there's loads of static after loading soundfonts: /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 & FluidR3_GS.sf2
[09:54] <bc81> sigh, it's ok i'll just stick to running one thing at a time (either fluidsynth+Piano Booster, or aconnect+milky)
[09:55] <AutoStatic> static is probably a sample rate issue
[09:57] <bc81> well, i'll try to sort that out later, i can't thank you enough for all your help
[09:57] <AutoStatic> NP
[12:24] <Daviey> Hello!
[12:24] <Daviey> Would it make you sad if jack lost firewire support?
[12:25] <Daviey> (for natty)
[12:26] <AutoStatic> Why would JACK loose FireWire support for Natty?
[13:04] <Daviey> AutoStatic, sorry, missed this - not being hilighted.
[13:05] <Daviey> We are looking to demote libffado from main, jack - being on main, can't depend on it.
[13:11] <AutoStatic> Daviey: so libffado will move to universe?
[13:12] <Daviey> AutoStatic, that is the plan
[13:12] <Daviey> or, the desired thing :)
[13:12] <AutoStatic> Daviey: iirc actually the jackd-firewire package does the 'bridging'
[13:13] <AutoStatic> Daviey: So if that would move to universe I don't see much issues
[13:14] <AutoStatic> Daviey: but is part of the JACK package
[13:15] <AutoStatic> So you'll have to split up that package
[13:18] <Daviey> it's an issue for, bug 730759 & bug 730760 :/
[13:18] <Daviey> AutoStatic, Can someone from the dev team come to the release meeting?
[13:20] <AutoStatic> No idea, you might ask on #ubuntustudio-devel
[13:20] <AutoStatic> I'm not a part of the dev team
[13:21] <Daviey> ah
[13:21] <Daviey> AutoStatic, thanks for your help
[13:21] <AutoStatic> NP
[13:52] <holstein> jo-erlend: i would not
[13:52] <holstein> connect 2 mic's with a spliter
[13:52] <holstein> you can split a signal alright with a splitter
[13:52] <holstein> but not join
[13:53] <holstein> jo-erlend: NM
[13:53] <holstein> i see you and AutoStatic discussed it already :)
[13:54] <AutoStatic> Most Mic inputs are stereo afaik
[13:54] <AutoStatic> So if you use a 2x mono splitter it should work
[13:54] <holstein> AutoStatic: yeah, depends on the hardware
[13:55] <holstein> AutoStatic: WTF is up with that firewire thing?
[13:55] <holstein> Daviey: i think it would suck
[13:55] <holstein> who needs to go where?
[13:55] <holstein> to help make that not happen?
[13:55] <Daviey> holstein, discussion in -devel
[15:42] <jo-erlend> holstein, AutoStatic: damn. I was hoping I could use a headset and my guitar at the same time without getting a new soundcard.
[15:43] <holstein> hmm
[15:43] <holstein> i dont think so
[15:43] <holstein> you wont want to plug your guitar right into a sound card anyways
[15:50] <holstein> jo-erlend: check out
[15:50] <holstein> http://tascam.com/product/us-100/
[15:50] <holstein> or something like a http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UCA202.aspx
[15:51] <holstein> with a mixer like http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/502.aspx
[15:52] <holstein> you should be able to get both those for around $70 US
[15:53] <jo-erlend> yes, I should invest in something like that.
[15:56] <jo-erlend> I do tend to penalize companies for making statements such as these: «TASCAM’s US-200 is a 2-in/4-out USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface for Mac and Windows computers, housed in a lightweight, portable chassis.»
[15:58] <holstein> you mean the mac and windows part?
[15:58] <jo-erlend> yes.
[15:58] <holstein> well, RME supports linux
[15:58] <holstein> but, even the 'starter kit' basic is probably a grand or so
[15:58] <holstein> im assuming thats overkill for your needs
[15:59] <jo-erlend> I actually bought a webcam I seriously had no need for when I saw Creative: «Works with Linux». I do the opposite when the companies do the opposite.
[15:59] <jo-erlend> a grand of NOKs are ok. I suppose that's not what you meant? :)
[15:59] <holstein> NOK ?
[16:00] <jo-erlend> Norwegian Crowns.
[16:00] <holstein> the audio folks have to be careful
[16:00] <holstein> they get money from who knows where
[16:01] <jo-erlend> heh... And now people have decided that all wireless audio equipment has to be replaced, I read somewhere.
[16:01] <holstein> the devices i suggested though work well
[16:01] <holstein> out of the box
[16:02] <jo-erlend> sure, but they're advertising either incompetence or an agenda against Linux. Neither works well as an incentive to buy.
[16:02] <holstein> well, the internal card you are using had no linux endorsements either
[16:03] <jo-erlend> actually, it did.
[16:03] <holstein> but, i always suggest emailing the companies
[16:03] <jo-erlend> well, the motherboard did.
[16:03] <holstein> jo-erlend: right on
[16:03] <holstein> i share those convictions
[16:03] <holstein> BUT, i also need professional equipment
[16:03] <holstein> for what i do
[16:03] <holstein> so, i walk the line
[16:04] <jo-erlend> but they don't have to brag about linux support, as long as they don't say that it's "designed for Windows and Mac".
[16:06] <jo-erlend> I'm just an artist. I can live without "professional equipment". I can make better recordings with my N900 than some of my biggest heroes could in studios. :)
[16:06] <holstein> hmmm
[16:07] <holstein> id like to hear that
[16:07] <holstein> i would personally like to see some 'built for linux' firewire interfaces
[16:07] <jo-erlend> you're in luck then. As a test, I uploaded a few videos onto youtube. Let me find them.
[16:09] <jo-erlend> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs9yojlmR8c
[16:10] <jo-erlend> it wasn't really meant for distribution. :)
[16:10] <holstein> cool
[16:10] <holstein> nice playing
[16:10] <holstein> when you turn it on
[16:10] <holstein> and you hear that level of noise?
[16:10] <holstein> kinda like wind
[16:10] <holstein> that is about as loud as the guitar
[16:11] <holstein> thats what nice gear helps with
[16:12] <holstein> nice preamps
[16:12] <jo-erlend> sure. But I'm not that interested in perfect audio.
[16:12] <jo-erlend> thanks btw :)
[16:12] <holstein> where you can get low noise to signal ratio
[16:12] <holstein> well, its not an issue of perfect
[16:12] <jo-erlend> I usually just remove the noise in audacity :)
[16:12] <holstein> right
[16:12] <holstein> you are notching out some high end
[16:12] <holstein> from the source too
[16:12] <holstein> the guitar or vocal
[16:13] <holstein> you cant fix it 100% in post
[16:13] <jo-erlend> I didn't really understand that
[16:13] <holstein> when you 'remove the noise' in audacity
[16:13] <holstein> that effects the rest of the audio as well
[16:13] <holstein> even if you dont use the EQ much
[16:13] <jo-erlend> I made a little recording a little while ago. You can listen if you like. I think the result was quite nice, even though there was a lot of noise to begin with.
[16:13] <holstein> and use some really nice commercial noise removal
[16:14] <holstein> ideally, you track it without the hiss
[16:14] <holstein> jo-erlend: sure, link it up :)
[16:14] <jo-erlend> sure, if I can get some nice equipment without feeling like a second class citizen because of my choice of OS, I'm all for it.
[16:15] <holstein> eh, its all buisness
[16:15] <holstein> some of them support linux
[16:15] <holstein> motu is not cool
[16:15] <holstein> maudio has great support
[16:15] <holstein> *usually
[16:16] <holstein> i mean, the same thing could be said about gaming
[16:16] <holstein> intel is by far the most linux friendly
[16:16] <holstein> but, if you want to game, you need ati or nvidia
[16:16] <jo-erlend> I do say the same thing about gaming.
[16:16] <holstein> and who knows when they will say 'supports linux' on the box
[16:17] <holstein> im not saying it makes it right
[16:17] <holstein> im just saying, you need those tools for gamin
[16:17] <holstein> g
[16:20] <jo-erlend> I would rather purchase two soundboards from Creative with a Tux-label than a single device with two inputs.
[16:21] <holstein> and i understand why
[16:21] <holstein> BUT
[16:21] <jo-erlend> ... that doesn't, I mean.
[16:21] <holstein> creative does not make proper equipment
[16:21] <holstein> for plugging your guitar into your computer
[16:21] <holstein> they make consumer audio gear
[16:21] <holstein> which is fine
[16:22] <holstein> and you can route a mixer into it, and get the job done
[16:23] <jo-erlend> right. And I won't have to be a hipocrite.
[16:23] <holstein> well, about linux support at least
[16:24] <jo-erlend> hehe, what's that supposed to mean?
[16:24] <holstein> if you were in a room full of linux users
[16:24] <holstein> youd be fine
[16:24] <holstein> in a room full of recording engineers.. im not so sure ;)
[16:25] <jo-erlend> whenever I'm in a room with other people, I'm in a room with Linux users, whether they know it or not :)
[16:25] <holstein> hehe
[16:25] <holstein> you'd be fine with that behringer mixer i linked
[16:26] <holstein> routed to your sound card
[16:26] <holstein> BUT that doesnt change anyones buisness practices are berhinger
[16:27] <jo-erlend> music is a major part of my freedom. I object verbosely and loudly to the idea that I should give up freedom in order to play music. I'd rather not record.
[16:27] <holstein> yeah, but using the proper tool for the job doesnt violate your freedom
[16:28] <holstein> just because maudio doesnt have a picture of a penguin
[16:28] <holstein> doesnt mean they are volitile
[16:28] <holstein> AND, that picture of a penguin on creative gear
[16:28] <holstein> is a buisness decision
[16:28] <holstein> and i appreciate it
[16:28] <holstein> BUT, our freedoms are not on the radar
[16:29] <jo-erlend> then I certainly won't lend them my monetary strength.
[16:29] <holstein> because of the penguin sticker?
[16:29] <holstein> what does that sticker indicate?
[16:29] <holstein> does it say 'we write linux drivers' ?
[16:30] <jo-erlend> no, as I said, they don't have to brag about linux support, as long as they don't brag about win and osx support either.
[16:30] <holstein> does it say 'the chipsets we use are supported by the linux kernel' ?
[16:30] <holstein> what does it actually indicate?
[16:30] <holstein> i mean, i assume it indicates 'if you are a linux user, buy this'
[16:30] <jo-erlend> that they don't assume that everyone uses Windows or OS X
[16:31] <holstein> well, they assume that money can be made by providing a statement
[16:31] <jo-erlend> and I support that idea.
[16:31] <holstein> right, me too
[16:31] <holstein> but, it doesnt mean anything really
[16:32] <holstein> unless they are releasing infomation
[16:32] <holstein> so drivers can be writtne
[16:32] <holstein> so drivers can be written
[16:32] <jo-erlend> ...but you support them even if they say that you have to switch to Windows or OS X in order to use the equipment?
[16:32] <holstein> and maudio does that
[16:32] <holstein> they dont have a sticker
[16:32] <holstein> jo-erlend: theres not a sticker that says that
[16:32] <holstein> switch to win or OSX
[16:33] <holstein> thats a suggested supported operating system statement
[16:33] <holstein> for the masses
[16:33] <jo-erlend> holstein: it says it supports Windows and OS X. It doesn't mention anything else. I don't buy that. I also don't buy headsets that are designed for Skype.
[16:33] <holstein> right
[16:33] <holstein> and i agree so an extent
[16:33] <holstein> its just that some companies DO release infomation
[16:33] <holstein> such as broadcom
[16:33] <holstein> recently
[16:34] <holstein> and thats all we need
[16:34] <holstein> we dont need to be hard-ons about a sticker on the box
[16:34] <holstein> in my opinion
[16:34] <holstein> and, it really hits me where i work when it comes to choosing audio geat
[16:34] <holstein> gear*
[16:34] <jo-erlend> sure, if they said "We support Windows, OS X and others*", then that'd be something else. They don't say that. They say: use windows or os x.
[16:35] <holstein> yeah?
[16:35] <holstein> i dont read 'use'
[16:35] <holstein> i read 'supported'
[16:35] <holstein> and again, thats marketing
[16:35] <holstein> its a buisness after all
[16:36] <holstein> i mean, get what you want
[16:36] <jo-erlend> ok, I'm an atheist, but let's pretend I was a muslim. Then I read on some food: "designed for Atheists, Jews and Christians". Would I buy that food?
[16:36] <holstein> im not trying to step on any freedoms
[16:36] <holstein> im just saying
[16:36] <holstein> a sticker on a box is marketing
[16:36] <holstein> even the penguin
[16:36] <holstein> some comapanies release info
[16:36] <holstein> and some dont
[16:37] <jo-erlend> your returnkey is going to get worn out before its time. :)
[16:37] <holstein> jo-erlend: and you'd probably would buy that food, if the alternatives didnt work for you
[16:39] <jo-erlend> the point is that they're promoting platforms I don't use, implicitly saying that their products aren't for me. Even if I know that it works, I won't buy it.
[16:39] <holstein> right
[16:39] <holstein> and im saying when its luctrative to promote those platforms, they will
[16:39] <jo-erlend> and I won't help make such stupidity even more lucrative.
[16:40] <holstein> and i think you are avoiding some hardware from manufacturers that *do* support freedom
[16:40] <holstein> and release information freely
[16:40] <jo-erlend> if they don't say so, they don't support it.
[16:41] <holstein> on the box?
[16:41] <holstein> nothing with that new broadcom chip says linux supported
[16:41] <holstein> AFAIK
[16:41] <jo-erlend> if they say that their equipment works on Windows, OS X and nothing else, then yes, they don't support Linux, even if their equipment is usable on that platform.
[16:41] <holstein> and that the most recent mainstream company i know of t decide to do that
[16:42] <holstein> i think its different with audio
[16:42] <holstein> when OSX really rules the market
[16:42] <holstein> and as a company you would want that to be the marketing angle probably
[16:42] <jo-erlend> it does? I know some musicians, and none of them uses OS X.
[16:43] <holstein> yeah?
[16:43] <holstein> its been the industry standard for years now
[16:43] <holstein> OSX - protools
[16:43] <jo-erlend> the problem is that Windows is the big platform and OS X is for creative people, while Linux is for geeks. Well. Geeks are creative and truly creative people appreciate their freedom. Some of the old misconceptions have to die.
[16:44] <holstein> and i agree to an extent
[16:44] <holstein> its just that i see the problem differently
[16:44] <holstein> microsoft and apple are companies
[16:44] <holstein> linux is you and me
[16:45] <holstein> and anyone else
[16:45] <holstein> there is no 'linux'
[16:45] <holstein> geeks or no
[16:45] <jo-erlend> "software designed for white people. Sure, it works for blacks too, we just don't encourage it, because there isn't enough money in it."
[16:45] <holstein> ^^ thats not the point either
[16:45] <jo-erlend> seems to be from where I'm standing.
[16:46] <holstein> i just urge you to look deeper than what stickers are on the box
[16:47] <holstein> we need information about devices released
[16:47] <holstein> they can write whatever they need to on the box
[16:47] <holstein> whatever sells it
[16:47] <jo-erlend> would a "works with linux"-sticker have any adverse effects on the purchase of windows and osx users?
[16:48] <holstein> i think the companies are just realizing having a campaign like that would actually help
[16:48] <holstein> jo-erlend: maybe
[16:48] <holstein> it would cost more though
[16:48] <holstein> printing them up
[16:48] <holstein> and paying someone to stick them on
[16:48] <holstein> OR changing the current boxes
[16:49] <jo-erlend> well, as long as they keep their "white people are more valuable"-politics, I won't support them
[16:49] <holstein> right
[16:49] <holstein> i hear you
[16:49] <holstein> however
[16:49] <holstein> maudio releases information
[16:49] <holstein> freely
[16:49]  * jo-erlend is really white, mind you. Blue eyes and all.
[16:49] <holstein> and creative gear sucks
[16:50] <jo-erlend> compared to what?
[16:50] <holstein> anything
[16:50] <holstein> really ;)
[16:50] <jo-erlend> like a sixties home studio?
[16:50] <holstein> anything with an XLR in
[16:50] <jo-erlend> I don't even know what that is. :)
[16:50] <holstein> right
[16:50] <holstein> i do , and i need them
[16:51] <holstein> and i support companies that support linux too
[16:51] <holstein> i just look a little further than stickers on the box
[16:52] <holstein> i appologize if im on a vendetta
[16:52] <holstein> im actually on a whole other vendetta
[16:52] <holstein> im just waiting on my time to talk about it ;)
[16:52] <jo-erlend> ok, so the race-example doesn't really work anymore. A more realistic example would be the US' "don't ask, don't tell" philosophy.
[16:55] <jo-erlend> well.. Perhaps I'm exaggerating somewhat. But I hate it when I have to feel bad about buying stuff I really want. And I would be actively paying for the Windows and OSX stickers. That just rubs me the wrong way.
[17:00] <jo-erlend> bbl
[17:00] <jo-erlend> no more power in my battery. :)
[19:25] <esox> hello, I would like to know how to connect a plugin to a specific output of jack-rack
[19:37] <holstein> hey esox
[19:37] <holstein> you can try asking in #opensourcemusicians
[19:38] <holstein> but i remember when i was messing with jack-rack
[19:38] <holstein> you just load up whatever plugin
[19:38] <holstein> and do the routing as usual in 'connections' over in JACK :)
[19:46] <esox> holstein: thanx. But why can one increase the number of output ?
[19:46] <holstein> esox: like mono to stereo?
[19:46] <holstein> i thought that was in the setup
[19:46] <holstein> but i really havent used it enough to say
[19:47] <holstein> i usually do sparse plugins in ardour
[19:47] <holstein> OR rakarrack live
[19:48] <holstein> esox: what are you trying to accomplish?
[19:50] <esox> holstein: I want to charge lets say 3 plugins (reverb, chorus and delay) and I want to be able to conect lets say the rythmbox to the delay, tracks of ardour to reverb+chorus, and then conect the signal out of the delay to input of ardour
[19:50] <esox> as an exemple
[19:50] <holstein> yeah, you should just be able to add them
[19:51] <holstein> in jack-rack
[19:51] <holstein> whatever ones you want
[19:51] <holstein> and do the routing over in 'connections'
[19:51] <holstein> IF you cant find a stereo plugin you want
[19:51] <holstein> you can use 2 instances of a plugin
[19:51] <holstein> and route the right and left channels seperately
[19:52] <holstein> esox: gotta run though... BBL
[19:53] <esox> holstein: BBL ?
[22:48] <jimsve> I have a problem with Wine on a fresh install of ubuntustudio 10.10. I have a program that takes a very long time to start. Before I used normal Ubuntu 10.04 and it worked fine. I have installed ubuntu 10.10 and ubuntustudio 10.10 i two idential virtualbox machines. I see the same problem: normal ubuntu find, ubuntustudio not fine. Any idea what the problem could be?
[22:50] <jimsve> The kernel of both ubuntus seems to be the same, 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP ... x86_64


[08:00] <guiverc2> booting kubuntu daily (hirsute) & it reports "Installation failed - KDialog \n The installer encountered an unrecoverable error. A desktop session will now be run so that you may investigate the problem or mr try installing again"; no installer was started; *live* session was expected.. question: what package to file against assuming you want bug report
[08:02]  * guiverc2 may just use kubuntu-meta
[08:12] <RikMills> guiverc: the try/install screen which should display is ubiquity
[08:12] <RikMills> I guess that is crashing
[08:12] <guiverc> okay... just filed, can change...   thank you RikMills
[09:02] <guiverc> RikMills, FYI: I think you're right.. "AttributeError: No frontend available; tried gtk_ui, kde_ui, debconf_ui" in Ubiquity.Debug
[13:21] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[20:55] <santa_> hi everyone
[20:56] <santa_> RikMills: FYI I have a better fix for the kde sftp lack of wildcards and I found a small bug in kde_sftp.py so I'm going to do another KA 2.3 point release soon
[20:57] <santa_> * libka/kde_ftp.py


[04:01] <kuki2> hey anyone try ubuntu snappy core on raspberry pi 2 ,i want to know if its tough installing it and a DE
[04:04] <kuki2> sorry ,i just saw ,topic only
[04:05] <wxl> kuki2: hm?
[04:05] <kuki2> how does the topic thing work it says topic set by wxl
[04:06] <wxl> kuki2: yep, i set the topic. what's the question?
[04:08] <kuki2> how would i go about installing ubuntu snappy core on a raspberry pi 2 with a DE ? in very general terms , i want to know if its a lot harder than a x86 install
[04:08] <wxl> kuki2: no clue. try it :)
[04:09] <kuki2> lol , ok , i will ,thanks XD


[17:01] <LjL> if you need ubotwo in channels, please tell me fast, before it stops responding to my commands as usual
[17:01] <[NikO]> what is ubotwo ?
[17:01] <LjL> [NikO]: replacement bot for when ubotu is down, like now
[17:01] <[NikO]> ok
[17:02] <[NikO]> we have our own on #ubuntu-fr*
[17:02] <[NikO]> wow with official cloack great :)