[12:06] <flint> JaneW, I am not getting any of this great correspondence about the Cookbook.  If the change presents itself.  Please email me a copy. Thanks in advance!
[12:14] <neurogeek> mhz, I told him that you were looking for him and that you needed a curriculum .. guess he is just doing that
[12:15] <mhz> ooh, I see, thx
[01:36] <iGotNoTime> help LOL
[01:37] <iGotNoTime> I have like 10 apps running but nothing in the taskbar
[01:37] <iGotNoTime> what did I do?
[01:39] <Burgwork> maybe the taskbar got removed from your panel
[01:39] <Burgwork> add the "Windows list" back to your panel
[01:45] <mhz> neurogeek: any news?
[02:11] <iGotNoTime> Thank you Burgwork that fixed it
[02:11] <iGotNoTime> sorry gnome is a new concept for me :P
[02:12] <Burgwork> iGotNoTime, no problem
[02:20] <iGotNoTime> next question and this one is really getting to me.... my laptop uses a touchpad but when I tap the surface of the touchpad itself it acts as a double click option. It is frustrating when my palm bumps it while typing. Can I disable this so called 'feature'?
[02:20] <iGotNoTime> I could with XP, but can not find any option in Edubuntu
[02:23] <Burgwork> sadly not easily
[02:24] <Burgwork> you need to edit a text file
[02:31] <iGotNoTime> hehe
[02:32] <iGotNoTime> any guess which one or where?
[02:32] <Burgwork> xorg.conf
[02:32] <Burgwork> /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[02:33] <iGotNoTime> you are fast :P
[02:33] <iGotNoTime> with SUDO?
[02:33] <Burgwork> check
[02:36] <iGotNoTime> well I see the mouse area for the touchpad but nothing indicating the feature, going to Google :P
[02:40] <deang> Running Flight5.  My screensaver keeps kicking on (while I'm actively using GAIM and Browser). Is this a known issue?
[02:40] <crimsun> yes
[02:40] <deang> thanks.
[03:48] <grant> How would you guys say edubuntu compares to the fedora core 4 ltsp repackage?
[03:50] <grant> Anyone awake?
[03:54] <HedgeMage> I'm somewhat here
[03:55] <HedgeMage> I've not used FC, though, so I'm not much help on that question.
[03:57] <grant> You use edubuntu, I take it?
[04:01] <HedgeMage> I have it on one of my boxen :)
[04:09] <grant> did you get it working with thin clients?
[07:04] <highvoltage> JaneW: http://gallery.debian.org.tw/albums/10th/DSCN3334.sized.jpg
[07:26] <c7> hi zusammen (sorry spreche leider sehr schlecht englisch)
[07:26] <c7> kann mir jemand helfen, ltsp zu konfigurieren?
[07:26] <c7> booten funktioniert wunderbar
[07:26] <c7> und nen login screen krieg ich auch..
[07:27] <c7> bloss kann ich mich nicht anmelden..
[07:27] <highvoltage> c7: flight4 ?
[07:27] <c7> ubuntu flight5 installation
[07:28] <c7> +edubuntu pakete
[07:28] <highvoltage> c7: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[07:28] <c7> ja hab ich schon versucht...
[07:28] <c7> ndert leider nichts daran
[07:28] <highvoltage> hmmm... shouldn't be necassary on flight 5, but i suggest you try that
[07:29] <c7> other suggestions?
[07:30] <highvoltage> as far as i understand, you said that you get kicked off as soon as you log in? i had that problem with flight4, and ltsp-update-sshkeys fixed that for me, but i'm quite sure it's fixed with f5
[07:31] <highvoltage> i can't think of anything else though, i suggest you hang around and ask ogra when he wakes up
[07:32] <mhz> highvoltage: hi there
[07:32] <highvoltage> mhz: hi!
[07:33] <c7> it did try this.. yeah i thing think would be the best to ask him.. if i can stay awake ;)
[07:33] <highvoltage> :)
[07:33] <mhz> highvoltage: what is your "profesion", what have you studied (university or instute(
[07:34] <mhz> highvoltage: and what city you live in
[07:34] <highvoltage> mhz: i still have to study :/
[07:34] <highvoltage> mhz: Cape Town
[07:34] <mhz> highvoltage: where are you studing?
[07:34] <highvoltage> mhz: i'm not studying, really, not yet.
[07:35] <highvoltage> mhz: although i'm starting guitar lessons tonight, if that counts
[07:35] <mhz> lol
[07:35] <mhz> have you studied?
[07:35] <mhz> anything ICT related
[07:35] <highvoltage> i did a linux+ course in 2003
[07:35] <highvoltage> that's about it :/
[07:35] <mhz> okis
[07:36] <mhz> so, you have studied something after school
[07:36] <highvoltage> i need to make some time to study, i thought about doing a psychology course...
[07:36] <highvoltage> nope, haven't attended formal education after high school
[07:36] <mhz> highvoltage: dont worry, it is just to provide a "table like" speakers info
[07:37] <mhz> and how old are you?
[07:37] <highvoltage> mhz: ok. i phoned yesterday to find out about the visa, they said i do need one
[07:37] <highvoltage> mhz: i'll apply for one next week
[07:37] <highvoltage> mhz: 24
[07:37] <mhz> cool
[07:37] <mhz> 24? like the Fox series?
[07:38] <highvoltage> as in, a dyslexic 42 :)
[07:38] <mhz> lol
[07:50] <mhz> highvoltage: and remember to tell us an average of how much a ticket to chile is and how long it takes
[07:52] <highvoltage> mhz: ok
[07:53] <mhz> cool
[07:53] <mhz> oh, I've noticed we are having "operators" implemented. Good!
[07:55] <Burgundavia> mhz: hmm?
[07:56] <mhz> Burgundavia: oh, always here!?!
[07:56] <mhz> :D
[07:56] <mhz> and there
[07:56] <mhz> and everywhere
[07:56] <mphill> does edubuntu come with ltsp?
[07:56] <mhz> mphill: indeed
[07:56] <Burgundavia> mhz: I am on irc about 15 hours a day, between work and home
[07:56] <mhz> mphill: that is one of its main features
[07:56] <mphill> ltsp gets me hot and bothered
[07:57] <mhz> Burgundavia: oh, you are single? or your "couple" is a geek too?
[07:57] <Burgundavia> mhz: currently single
[07:57] <mphill> mhz: how does k12lstp compare with edubuntu
[07:57] <mhz> mphill: I have not tried k12ltsp yet
[07:57] <mphill> besides the debian/ubuntu and redhat base distro
[07:58] <mphill> i'm running k12ltsp now, it works ok
[07:58] <mhz> but the LTSP edubuntu has is way different than ordinary LTSP
[07:58] <mphill> how so?
[07:58] <mhz> mainly, edubuntu LTSP forwards X via ssh
[07:58] <mphill> interesting
[07:59] <mphill> does that require anything extra from thin clients using PXE? I assume not
[07:59] <mhz> actually, IIRC next LTSP release (for all distros) will include edubuntu modifications
[07:59] <mhz> nope
[07:59] <mphill> IIRC?
[07:59] <mhz> oh, sorry
[08:00] <mhz> If I remember Correctly :D
[08:00] <mphill> how long as the ltsp project been around?
[08:00] <mhz> no idea
[08:00] <mphill> me either
[08:00] <mphill> mhz: i gotta sleep
[08:00] <mphill> good night
[08:00] <mhz> oh, sleep well
[08:01] <mhz> Burgundavia: single has its advantages, indeed
[08:01] <c7> highvoltage: dumb question.. but do i have to create special users for ltsp? like in chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
[08:01] <mhz> c7: you shouldn't touch /opt
[08:01] <mhz> unless you know what you are doing, of course
[08:02] <c7> mhz: like if i want to add some programms?
[08:02] <c7> mhz: thunderbir-enigmail etc?
[08:02] <mhz> c7: hmmm, edubuntu will let the client boot and use ALL resources available just like a normal system
[08:03] <mhz> so, all users in /etc/passwd are valid
[08:03] <mhz> so, all apps in /bin /usr/bin, etc will be there for users
[08:03] <mhz> because it is mainly forwarding X via ssh
[08:04] <c7> mhz: ok cool. yeah if it would ;)
[08:04] <mhz> so, if Thunderbird has been installed as usual in the server, then the user will use it
[08:04] <c7> mhz: the problem is i cant login at all..
[08:04] <c7> :/
[08:04] <mhz> oh, dapper or breezy?
[08:04] <c7> dapper
[08:05] <mhz> damn, I still can't try any flights!
[08:05] <mhz> c7: can I make a couple of questions?
[08:05] <c7> sure
[08:05] <mhz> c7: the client get an IP from server?
[08:06] <c7> yep
[08:06] <mhz> c7: you see LDM on the client's monitor?
[08:06] <c7> y
[08:06] <mhz> the user you want to login is not already logged in in the server side?
[08:07] <c7> no i dont think so.. but how would i double check?
[08:07] <mhz> in the server side, in a terminal, type:  who
[08:08] <mhz> (maybe there's a GUI way... no idea)
[08:08] <c7> sorry what a dumb question ;)
[08:08] <c7> no he is not logged in
[08:08] <mhz> very sure
[08:08] <mhz> ?
[08:08] <c7> yes
[08:09] <mhz> does the user you are trying to login from client side exist in /etc/passwd in the server side?
[08:10] <c7> yes
[08:10] <mhz> then, the only idea I have is to use a breezy trick we had
[08:10] <mhz> for similar simptoms
[08:11] <mhz> c7: in the server side, run this command:  ltsp-update-sshkeys
[08:11] <mhz> and try to log in from the client side again
[08:11] <c7> ive done this like 10 times..
[08:12] <mhz> oh
[08:12] <mhz> have you tried with a diff user?
[08:12] <c7> yes but ill try to create a new one and try again
[08:12] <mhz> have you tried with a diff client?
[08:13] <c7> no
[08:13] <mhz> c7: it is very weired because is you get IP + LDM and you have already updated sshkeys, then it should work ok
[08:14] <c7> thats what i thought too
[08:14] <c7> ;)
[08:14] <mhz> :D
[08:14] <c7> no it doesnt work with a new user called test
[08:14] <mhz> I know it is not logical but have you rebooted the client?
[08:15] <c7> yes
[08:15] <c7> and the server
[08:15] <mhz> and all those users can perfectly log in to server, at server side
[08:15] <c7> yes
[08:16] <mhz> and what errors/symptoms you get to know you are not looging in successfully
[08:16] <mhz> ?
[08:17] <mhz> you get back to LDM ?
[08:17] <c7> yes
[08:17] <mhz> is the client really trying to log in?
[08:17] <mhz> I mean, you hear or see something on the screen?
[08:18] <c7> first i get a black screen with a clock cursor then the cursor turns to an x and then im back to ldm
[08:18] <c7> grrr
[08:18] <mhz> hmmmm
[08:19] <mhz> so it does try
[08:19] <c7> yes but it does the same thing when i enter a false passwd
[08:19] <c7> wrong pwd
[08:19] <mhz> and you say those same users get X ok when they log in at the server side?
[08:20] <c7> yes
[08:20] <mhz> how much RAM do the clients have?
[08:20] <c7> 512mb
[08:20] <mhz> wow!
[08:20] <mhz> each client has 512 MB!!
[08:20] <mhz> how much ram do the server have?
[08:21] <c7> 300 and some
[08:21] <mhz> hmmmmmm
[08:21] <c7> its just a test setup ... with my laptop as a client
[08:21] <mhz> I have never used LTSP where clients have more RAM than the server :D
[08:22] <c7> but i dont think this could be the problem
[08:22] <mhz> I do know that the bare min. RAM for server is 256 + 128 per each client attached to it
[08:22] <mhz> and that each client should have a tleast 64 MB
[08:23] <mhz> c7: which desktop is the default X ?
[08:23] <c7> MemTotal:       386252 kB
[08:23] <c7> on the server
[08:23] <mhz> c7: which desktop is the default X ?
[08:23] <c7> ?? sorry
[08:24] <c7> gnome?
[08:24] <mhz> ok
[08:24] <c7> :)
[08:24] <mhz> do you have any other desktop installed?
[08:24] <c7> dont think so
[08:24] <mhz> could you install a light desktop?
[08:24] <mhz> wmaker, or fluxbox ?
[08:25] <c7> apt-get install fluxbox?
[08:26] <mhz> c7: yes
[08:26] <c7> installed fluxbox and menu
[08:26] <mhz> already there?
[08:26] <c7> yep
[08:26] <mhz> okis, then in a terminal, cd to a /home/test/
[08:26] <c7> ok
[08:26] <mhz> nano .xsession
[08:27] <mhz> and just inser this line to that file:  exec fluxbox
[08:27] <c7> vi .xsession
[08:27] <mhz> oops, sorry
[08:27] <mhz> :D
[08:27] <c7> ;)
[08:27] <mhz> emacs .xession
[08:27] <mhz> !
[08:27] <mhz> hehehe
[08:27] <c7> yeah in the future perhaps
[08:27] <mhz> save it
[08:28] <mhz> log in with the user, at the server side and let's see if fluxbox works there, 1st.
[08:28] <c7> mkay .. switch user
[08:28] <mhz> I remember, fluxbox used to take looooon time to start in Breezy
[08:29] <mhz> and wmaker took just a blink to start
[08:30] <c7> starts in like 3 seconds
[08:30] <mhz> exellent! (they solved it)
[08:30] <mhz> now, logout
[08:31] <c7> allready did
[08:31] <mhz> and let's try from client side
[08:31] <c7> nogo
[08:31] <mhz> with same user, of course :D
[08:31] <c7> ;)
[08:31] <mhz> damn!
[08:33] <c7> ...
[08:33] <mhz> tsktsktsk
[08:33] <c7> :)
[08:33] <JaneW> highvoltage: nice debian cake :)
[08:34] <mhz> cake? yummy
[08:34] <c7> me too
[08:34] <c7> and some sleep
[08:34] <c7> 8:34 here
[08:34] <mhz> c7: 03:30 AM
[08:35] <c7> 8:35AM
[08:35] <mhz> c7: ogra might be a good candidate to help you figure out
[08:35] <c7> sorry
[08:35] <mhz> heheh
[08:35] <mhz> c7: 03:35 AM
[08:35] <mhz> it is far from logical
[08:36] <c7> yeah i  know but whos gonna wake him up..
[08:36] <c7> it is
[08:36] <mhz> UNLESS the flight has known bugs
[08:36] <c7> what about firestarter?
[08:36] <mhz> no idea
[08:37] <c7> or any other firewall?
[08:37] <c7> which port would i have to open?
[08:37] <mhz> nah
[08:37] <mhz> I am using IP tables..
[08:37] <mhz> oh, wait..
[08:37] <mhz> maybe you are right
[08:38] <mhz> can you ssh to clients and from clients to server?
[08:38] <mhz> AFAIK, ssh is port 22
[08:39] <mhz> unless someone has modified it
[08:39] <c7> yes it is
[08:39] <c7> port 22 is open
[08:39] <c7> and i can connect to the server from (another) client
[08:39] <mhz> tsktsktsk
[08:39] <c7> cant try it on the laptop cause i cant login ;)
[08:40] <mhz> heheh, sure
[08:40] <JaneW> highvoltage: LOL @ your blog post
[08:40] <JaneW> highvoltage: I think a cocktail is a bit ambitious for me ;)
[08:40] <mhz> c7: if ogra  is sleeping, maybe someone at #ltsp could help
[08:40] <JaneW> I'll happilly sample them though!
[08:41] <mhz> c7: they have worked with ogra
[08:41] <c7> thought they use an older ltsp?
[08:41] <highvoltage> JaneW: cool! we'll have an edubuntu cocktail launch for the next release then!
[08:41] <JaneW> highvoltage: good idea!
[08:41] <mhz> c7: yup, but they are 100% aware of edubuntu  worjk
[08:42] <c7> mkay could try it.. but i think it'l have to wait some hours
[08:43] <c7> mhz: i have to get some sleep
[08:43] <mhz> JaneW: 106 cities in Latinamerica are celebrating 1 day of FreeSoftware fest, FLISOL, next saturday
[08:43] <JaneW> mhz: excellent :))
[08:43] <highvoltage> 106 cities!? wow. must be a big job to co-ordinate.
[08:44] <mhz> Ubuntu is being #1 guest at InstallFets
[08:44] <JaneW> by the way in our Prix arz Electronica entry I mentioned that if we win the money
[08:44] <mhz> fest
[08:44] <JaneW> (cos they ask what you'll use it for)
[08:44] <mhz> highvoltage: HUGE job
[08:44] <JaneW> we would use it for bounties and for sponsored marketing stuff for events
[08:44] <JaneW> stickers, banner, t-shirts, CDs etc
[08:44] <mhz> COLL!!!
[08:44] <mhz> it is needed badly
[08:45] <JaneW> we should get some nice stuff with 10 000 euro!
[08:45] <JaneW> no pray that we win, or at least get placed!
[08:45] <mhz> mybe not "neeeeeeedddddeeed" but "very useful"
[08:45] <mhz> :)
[08:45] <JaneW> it would help with our marketing drive to have budget for some visual stuff
[08:45] <c7> mhz:  rm -rf /opt/ltsp/i386/
[08:45] <mhz> 100% agree
[08:45] <mhz> c7: why?
[08:46] <JaneW> I didn;t tell them we'd get a BEEEEG cake too ;)
[08:46] <c7> mhz: ltsp-build-client
[08:46] <mhz> c7: btw, you just did a fresh edubuntu install, did not touch anything other than stated at wiki:EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
[08:46] <mhz> c7: ooohhhhh
[08:47] <mhz> c7: NOPE! big mistake!
[08:47] <c7> mhz: no, i have a 2 weeks old dapper flight 5 install
[08:47] <mhz> c7: install notes celarly says: DONT use ltsp standard tools
[08:47] <mhz> if you want Edubuntu to work
[08:47] <mhz> :D
[08:48] <highvoltage> JaneW: :)
[08:49] <mhz> JaneW: CNN will cover Flisol in Santiago, Chile, where I'll be installing ubuntu and family
[08:50] <JaneW> highvoltage: thanks for the mail to toxictoadz :)
[08:50] <mhz> actually, there's a film company that will start shooting to get material for a documentary during the whole 2006, about FLOSS
[08:52] <spacey> moin
[08:53] <mhz> moin moin, spacey
[08:53] <mhz> :D
[08:53] <spacey> :>
[08:54] <highvoltage> drupal
[08:55] <mhz> lol
[08:56] <mhz> highvoltage: Bluekuja asked me today if we'll have edubuntu forum
[08:56] <mhz> I told him "I have been disspaeared from edubuntu, so not a clue"
[08:56] <highvoltage> mhz: there's some interest for an edubuntu forum, but imo sticking to the mailing lists is a good idea
[08:57] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: ping
[08:57] <highvoltage> Bluekuja is also interested in starting an Italian Edubuntu loco team.
[08:57] <JaneW> highvoltage: pong
[08:57] <mhz> that was my 1st thought too, but on a second thought I feel many people, esp. end users,are less familiar with ML than Forums
[08:57] <highvoltage> since there's not such a thing as edubuntu loco teams yet, i thought it might be something that we would want to discuss.
[08:58] <mhz> indeed
[08:58] <highvoltage> should someone start an ubuntu loco team with an edubuntu interest, or should we investigate having edubuntu loco teams?
[08:58] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: the first
[08:58] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: i've added it to the community council agenda for the next meeting
[08:59] <mhz> I started the idea of Edubuntu Chile, and I got complaints from some people "who hardly participate in edubuntu" stating I wanted to become the "owner" of it in Chile, so I let the idea rest
[08:59] <mhz> :D
[08:59] <spacey> at least for NL i think edubuntu loco team can be easily combined with normal one
[09:00] <mhz> spacey: indeed, that is what I was doing and promoting.
[09:01] <mhz> and in flisol, I will repeat same speech inviting all desktops and ubuntu flavours to work under just one LoCo team, at least until each group is big enough to walk their own way
[09:01] <spacey> JaneW: read the cookbook stuff?
[09:02] <spacey> not sure what to think of elkners reply
[09:03] <spacey> mhz: yeah
[09:03] <mhz> highvoltage: one thing I will end up doing for sure, is to customize Edubuntu in a way we provide Chilean Cd's of it (spanish as default) and native languages (mapudungun, aymara, quechua, etc)
[09:03] <spacey> we all have to work together :)
[09:03] <spacey> thats quite easy
[09:03] <mhz> spacey: yup, that's the spirit
[09:04] <mhz> highvoltage: and that will have to be called Edubuntu Chile, even if they dont like it :D
[09:04] <highvoltage> mhz: wow
[09:05] <mhz> highvoltage: of course, Chilean CD covers, Chilean everything
[09:05] <highvoltage> very nice.
[09:06] <mhz> highvoltage: was Skubuntu intended to do that too?
[09:08] <spacey> mhz the normal (not edu) ubuntu team is really active in chile?
[09:09] <mhz> nope :(
[09:10] <mhz> so far, we are 3 or 4, very active
[09:10] <mhz> the rest usually wait for us to move
[09:10] <mhz> and they follow
[09:10] <mhz> there are lots of users, though, spacey
[09:11] <spacey> ok:)
[09:11] <mhz> spacey: last time I talked about Ubuntu (last week) I had a room with only 40 people
[09:12] <mhz> the good thing is that they all wanted to hear about Ubuntu
[09:12] <spacey> :)
[09:12] <mhz> and 40 was not a bad number considering that I had to talk at 15:00, right after lunch time, on a friday
[09:13] <mhz> (that means that 90% of population wanted to go home or do nothing
[09:13] <highvoltage> mhz: skubuntu is intended to fill the gap between ubuntu and what our requirements in the tuxlab project is
[09:13] <mhz> gap? really?
[09:14] <highvoltage> mhz: skubuntu will continue on top of edubuntu, but we'll just call it tuxlabs from now on, to avoid confusion
[09:14] <mhz> what gaps would you have?
[09:16] <highvoltage> well, guest accounts is a big thing. there's also some more trivial stuff like our tuxlab theming. and there's also south african content, quite a lot of it, that we add in tuxlabs. unfortunately it's mostly proprietary so we can't distribute it :/
[09:16] <highvoltage> then there's wikipedia, tuxlab troubleshooter, moodle, and some other stuff too
[09:16] <mhz> ?????????
[09:16] <mhz> propietary?
[09:16] <highvoltage> yeah
[09:17] <highvoltage> education dept would never let us put in the labs without DoE approved content, which is all proprietary.
[09:17] <Burgundavia> what sort of license and where is the content from?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> hmm
[09:17] <Burgundavia> mhz: I think the issue here is the SA gov, not the foundation
[09:18] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: see http://www.computers4kids.co.za http://www.learnthings.co.za
[09:19] <highvoltage> we also have http://www.edupac.co.za, which is at least intended to be OSS, but they don't have a license for their software yet :)
[09:19] <Burgundavia> ah, that is the "lucrative local content" work that OLPC alludes to
[09:19] <highvoltage> mhz: ideally we'd have 100% OSS, but there's no OSS content available that's approved by the DoE :(
[09:20] <mhz> hmmmm
[09:20] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: in south africa, there are *many* bad guys selling crappy content to schools for *huge* amount of money. it's really disgusting.
[09:20] <Burgundavia> think they don't milk us here too?
[09:20] <Burgundavia> mhz: that is what SILC here is trying to do
[09:20] <Burgundavia> http://silc.ca/
[09:21] <highvoltage> mhz: OSS content is nice, because that means the kids can take the content home, it also means that people like us can distribute it on a large scale, with very little complications
[09:21] <mhz> Burgundavia: here?
[09:22] <Burgundavia> canada
[09:23] <mhz> highvoltage: Burgundavia, the speech I usually give is related how KEY is free access to content and information if we want a sound Sustainable Development
[09:23] <mhz> Burgundavia: oh, thx
[09:23] <Burgundavia> future proofing, indeed
[09:24] <mhz> esp. when we talk about subdeveloped regions
[09:24] <mhz> In all modern societies, access to knowledge is as essential as milk or water or food
[09:25] <Burgundavia> well, most natives in Canada might as well be living in teh developing world, their quality of life is so crap. It is almost criminal how badly they are off
[09:26] <mhz> exactly
[09:26] <mhz> but WE are guilty of that
[09:26] <mhz> because WE let that happen by accepting it is a reality
[09:26] <mhz> yeah, I know "we" are doing something to change it
[09:27] <mhz> but this "we" is tooo little yet
[09:27] <mhz> and the knowledge growth rate is too BIG
[09:42] <mhz> highvoltage: BTW, usually, my poresentations are rendered by Moin :D
[09:43] <mhz> (MoinSlideShow)
[09:44] <iGotNoTime> can we get pron from synaptic?
[09:44] <iGotNoTime> LMAO
[09:45] <iGotNoTime> it was a joke :P
[09:45] <iGotNoTime> really
[09:46] <Burgundavia> :)
[09:46] <iGotNoTime> ohhh!
[09:46] <iGotNoTime> doh
[09:46] <iGotNoTime> LOL
[09:50] <iGotNoTime> can GAIM work with voice services of any native IM clients or no?
[09:50] <iGotNoTime> sorry native WIN IM Clients
[09:50] <Burgundavia> voice? hmm, no idea
[09:51] <iGotNoTime> I had skype for a day or two but voice would only connect for 5 seconds at a time
[09:53] <highvoltage> mhz: hehe
[09:55] <Burgundavia> skype isn't bad. It is just non-free and their UI locks like bollocks
[09:56] <iGotNoTime> I am not a skype advocate, I really have quite the distain for proprietary networks
[09:56] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:56] <jsgotangco> actually skype is pretty useful for me
[09:56] <iGotNoTime> I am SIP all the way
[09:56] <iGotNoTime> but just like XP and MSN you can't fight the numbers
[09:56] <iGotNoTime> everyone I know uses skype
[09:56] <iGotNoTime> no matter what I try to convince them to use
[09:57] <iGotNoTime> Google Talk has some serious potential, but will take some time to win the people over to it
[11:03] <ogra> highvoltage, the plan was to get the whole list of people and send out my bank details with a big CC list once Seveas has feedback from everyone :)
[11:24] <ogra> http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/5436/openofficesplashedu8to.png
[11:30] <pips1> hehe, nice bit of branding :-)
[11:32] <ogra> its going round on the ubuntu-art mailing list, i wonder if our ooo2 package even supports themeing ...
[11:40] <pips1> ogra, I want to install flight5 server at home now. :-) I'll have a few questions
[11:40] <ogra> shoot
[11:40] <pips1> since it's the easiest setup for edubuntu server, you recommended to disable dhcp on my router, right?
[11:41] <ogra> yep
[11:42] <ogra> otherwise you'd have to teach your routers dhcpd to handle netbooting, thats the alternative
[11:42] <ogra> :)
[11:42] <pips1> I don't want to disturb the internet access of my wife's imac (osX) here at home. She normally get's an ip by dhcp... so I figured I need to give the iMac (and my laptop) an ip manually...
[11:43] <ogra> or just use the right values for your ltsp dhcpd :)
[11:43] <ogra> look them up in the router and use the same IP range, gateway and nameserver information
[11:43] <pips1> however, when i tried to set the ip manually, I lost my internet connection, so I restarted networking (to get an ip via dhcp again)
[11:43] <ogra> then you dont need to change the other clients
[11:44] <pips1> ah, ok, I'll look at the router infos
[11:45] <pips1> my router is <IP_ADDRESS>, for that class of network, what is my range? (how many private ips can I specify?)
[11:46] <pips1> can i just pick any number for the last digit?
[11:49] <pips1> wow, there are lots of configuration options for my router 8-O
[11:49] <pips1> ;-)
[12:00] <pips1> ogra, is there anything in particular you want me to test / have a close look onto in the installation sequence?
[12:01] <ogra> it is tested and should run fine, please tell me if you see any problems
[12:01] <pips1> right
[12:03] <pips1> well, for a start, the install menu options don't seem to be fully localised yet, i.e. I chose 'Deutsch' and the options still read 'Install to the hard disk', etc.
[12:04] <pips1> damm, now i remember
[12:04] <pips1> sorry,
[12:04] <pips1> you mentioned several times that edubuntu only has English
[12:04] <pips1> pardon!
[12:04] <ogra> if you have a working network connection its fine ...
[12:05] <ogra> it will just take a bit to get the 15MB of kde langpacks
[12:05] <ogra> just answer yes if the installer asks if it should download the langpacks
[12:06] <ogra> (and you can use german in the installer with no problems, its just that the desktop is missing tanslations)
[12:06] <pips1> it's not really a big issue, however, I would just be very "polished" if those couple of menu options where available translated on the installer cd already, or, the language choose F2 would be disabled in the installer...
[12:07] <pips1> s/I/it would just...
[12:08] <pips1> do you understand what I meant?
[12:08] <ogra> i think thats planned
[12:08] <pips1> ah
[12:09] <pips1> still in the works, I see :-)
[12:09] <pips1> ok
[12:10] <pips1> well, actually, some of the menu items *did* change (F2 Sprache, F6 Weitere Optionen, the rest is still in English)
[12:10] <ogra> yep
[12:10] <ogra> WIP :)
[12:12] <pips1> so I take it the installer menus is still being worked on/polished quite a bit... if I choose F6 it get a wierd "popup" selection that displays too far to the right, so you can't read the options fully...
[12:14] <pips1> ok, I won't worry about all those nifty details with flight5 then.. :-) and rather get that ltsp server going!
[12:15] <ogra> :)
[12:16] <JaneW> ogra: ping
[12:16] <ogra> JaneW, pong
[12:16] <JaneW> ogra: you managed to post our entry form off yet?
[12:16] <ogra> sure
[12:16] <ogra> yesterday afternoon
[12:17] <ogra> dunno how long it takes though ... our snailmail situation here at the end of the world might not be better than yours :)
[12:18] <JaneW> ogra: excellnt, thanks so much
[12:18] <JaneW> ogra: that should be fine, they said as long as the post mark is on or before the 24th, so we should be safe :)
[12:18] <ogra> hey, its also my price if we win it *g* :)
[12:18] <JaneW> ogra: indeed!
[12:19] <ogra> great ...
[12:19] <ogra> that will happen in any case
[12:19] <JaneW> ogra: better dry-clean your suit ;)
[12:19] <ogra> heh
[12:20] <ogra> i got fat shortly after i bought it ... i guess i'd need a new one ...
[12:20] <JaneW> you-fat?
[12:20] <JaneW> hardly
[12:21] <ogra> i only look slim ... before UBZ i was as slim as mdz, just taller
[12:21] <ogra> now i only have two trousers left out of 10 that fit :)
[12:21] <JaneW> edubuntu did that didn't it :/
[12:21] <JaneW> before UBZ was 5.10!
[12:21] <ogra> not getting my ass out of this chair did it :)
[12:21] <Bluekuja> jane?
[12:21] <JaneW> Bluekuja: yes hi
[12:22] <ogra> Bluekuja, hey, welcome, new team member ! :)
[12:22] <Bluekuja> hi ogra :)
[12:23] <Bluekuja> nice
[12:23] <pips1> ogra, are there any plans to change appearances of 'ubuntu' in the installer to 'edubuntu'? (pips1 is still in nitpicking mode)
[12:23] <ogra> dunno, i wouldnt mind it either way ...
[12:24] <ogra> if someone takes care for it or pokes me to do it, it will be changed, but i dont see a reason to hide our inheritance ...
[12:24] <Bluekuja> ogra nice to meet you
[12:24] <ogra> Bluekuja, nice to meet you as well :)
[12:24] <Bluekuja> i come to main chat soon , im finishing to talk with jane ;)
[12:25] <ogra> heh, good :)
[12:25] <ogra> pips1, its not on my "urgent" list :)
[12:25] <pips1> it just happened to me several times that I downloaded both ubuntu and edubuntu installers, did an install, and only realise when it was too late that I had the wrong one...
[12:25] <pips1> ogra, I fully understand :-)
[12:26] <ogra> pips1, seems that happens to more people ... i have often pings from #ubuntu ... where people complain they suddenly have the edubuntu usplash :)
[12:26] <Bluekuja> okie im here
[12:26] <Bluekuja> i was talking with jane about the creation of a edubuntu forum
[12:26] <ogra> so it might be worth to change it, even if i think the gfxboot splashscreen is pretty celar its edubuntu ;)
[12:26] <JaneW> what was the final verdict on the edubuntu forums discussion?
[12:27] <Bluekuja> coz im creating a template similar to edubuntu website ome
[12:27] <JaneW> yes/no?
[12:27] <ogra> Bluekuja, i guess then pips1 is the right person, he just sets up our new website
[12:27] <Bluekuja> good hehe
[12:27] <JaneW> ogra: and highvoltage
[12:27] <pips1> I even gave a cd to someone else, and then that guy told me he ended up with edubuntu...
[12:27] <Bluekuja> so i might talk with him
[12:27] <ogra> (based on drupal which also have forum capabilitys)
[12:27] <Bluekuja> hehe
[12:27] <JaneW> pips1: can you chat with Bluekuja ?
[12:27] <ogra> s/have/has/
[12:28] <pips1> Bluekuja, i'm right here! :-)
[12:28] <ogra> pips1, but as long as the first screen says edubuntu, i blame the user ;)
[12:28] <Bluekuja> okie pipsl
[12:28] <Bluekuja> listen
[12:28] <JaneW> bbl
[12:28] <pips1> ogra, yep, it does say edubuntu in the middle
[12:29] <Bluekuja> ur re designing website right?
[12:29] <ogra> pips1, exactly ... :)
[12:29] <pips1> Bluekuja, I work with highvoltage on the website, yes
[12:29] <pips1> we split the work
[12:29] <Bluekuja> ok good listen , im creating a template for the forum
[12:29] <pips1> highvoltage will tackle the look/design
[12:29] <ogra> JaneW, probably point out that we might get probs with community contributions if the colorscheme changes heavily ;)
[12:30] <Bluekuja> do u know smf ,forum board?
[12:30] <pips1> Bluekuja, which forum?
[12:30] <ogra> JaneW, (i missed that yesterday, but wont scratch on the topic again for now)
[12:30] <JaneW> ogra: ok
[12:30] <Bluekuja> there was an idea to create an edubuntu forum
[12:30] <JaneW> ogra: although I need to talk to her about the LPI cert ;)
[12:30] <pips1> Bluekuja, you mean over at ubuntuforums? right?
[12:30] <ogra> ah :)
[12:31] <Bluekuja> nope , i mean a separeted one ,linked to edubuntu website
[12:31] <pips1> Bluekuja, well, we would prefer an integrated one, rather than a seperate one
[12:31] <Bluekuja> coz in ubuntuforums there will be only a section dedicated to edubuntu not an entire forum
[12:32] <Bluekuja> u mean integrated in an existing one?
[12:32] <ogra> integrated into the whole website ...
[12:33] <Bluekuja> yeah ,i've understood , so the idea is to create a forum inside the website
[12:33] <Bluekuja> like ubuntu-it one
[12:33] <pips1> haven't seen ubuntu-it, need to have a look at that!
[12:33] <Bluekuja> http://forum.ubuntu-it.org
[12:34] <Bluekuja> see it
[12:34] <Bluekuja> do u mean something like that?
[12:35] <pips1> well, ours will be probably even more integrated than that
[12:35] <ogra> very important is that we want the authentication handled by launchpad if possible ... so its easier to have all (webserver,forums etc) in one server
[12:35] <Bluekuja> ok ,thats a good idea
[12:36] <Bluekuja> wat board will use the forum?
[12:36] <pips1> ogra, yes, I agree, logins should work for both launchpad, wiki and website
[12:36] <pips1> Bluekuja, ?
[12:36] <ogra> yep ... single sign on, hehe
[12:36] <Bluekuja> i mean which forum software wull use
[12:36] <ogra> drupal
[12:36] <pips1> ogra beat me to it ;-)
[12:37] <ogra> heh
[12:37] <Bluekuja> ok good
[12:37] <Bluekuja> hehe
[12:37] <Bluekuja> that sounds good
[12:39] <pips1> there are lots of communication tools available for ubuntu/edubuntu/kubuntu ... for newbies it can be a bit confusing and overwhelming... since we target teachers & students, we aim for an integrated website
[12:40] <Bluekuja> yeah ,i agree with that
[12:41] <Bluekuja> it must be simply
[12:41] <Bluekuja> and easy to navigate
[12:41] <Bluekuja> by newbies
[12:41] <pips1> yes!
[12:43] <Bluekuja> ok good , im installing in local drupal
[12:43] <Bluekuja> ^^
[12:43] <pips1> cool, drupal is a nice tool
[12:44] <pips1> Bluekuja, have you seen that German Site? http://www.ubuntuusers.de/
[12:46] <Bluekuja> let me see it :)
[12:47] <Bluekuja> ok seen
[12:47] <Bluekuja> thats a nice site
[12:47] <Bluekuja> isnt it?
[12:48] <pips1> yes, nicely done
[12:49] <Bluekuja> that can be the idea of edubuntu website
[12:49] <pips1> http://www.ubuntuusers.de/map/
[12:50] <pips1> a map of all users registered on the german site
[12:50] <pips1> (takes a while to load, that page)
[12:50] <ogra> ah, a UbuntuWorldwide clone ?
[12:51] <pips1> ogra, haven't seen that yet!
[12:51] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldWide
[12:52] <pips1> wow
[12:52] <pips1> so many users, the names overlap....
[12:53] <Bluekuja> nice
[12:53] <pips1> in the german vesion, you can click on the individual users and get more info
[12:54] <pips1> (you get that member's page)
[12:55] <Bluekuja> really nice
[12:55] <Bluekuja> im browsing now drupal
[12:55] <pips1> did you install the debian package?
[12:56] <Bluekuja> mmmm...nope
[12:56] <pips1> what version of drupal?
[12:56] <Bluekuja> downloaded it from drupal.org
[12:56] <Bluekuja> 4.6
[12:56] <pips1> right, ok
[12:56] <Bluekuja> sorry 4.7
[12:57] <pips1> ah
[12:57] <Bluekuja> beta one
[12:57] <pips1> that's still in beta, yep
[12:57] <Bluekuja> yeah its a nice software
[12:57] <Bluekuja> easy too administrate too
[12:57] <pips1> yes
[12:58] <pips1> the best feature is the taxonomy (categories)
[12:58] <pips1> make's it really flexible, for navigation ... menus, etc
[12:59] <Bluekuja> yes ,thats a really good software for our purpose
[12:59] <Bluekuja> i go to eat something back in 30 minutes ;)
[12:59] <ogra> he should know i'm subscribed to the ML i run ... grr
[01:00] <pips1> talk to you l8r
[01:01] <pips1> ogra, what's the plan regarding install option for edubuntu? do you keep the 'workstation' option?
[01:02] <ogra> sure
[01:02] <pips1> in F1 Help, that option isn't explained though...
[01:02] <ogra> i'd love to hide the server option or to rename it to minimal
[01:02] <pips1> ogra, i agree
[01:03] <pips1> what's the word? are they up for renaming it?
[01:04] <pips1> how could be get the 'workstation' option explained under F1 ?
[01:05] <pips1> (oh, so many typoes)
[01:05] <pips1> I meant, I am making typoes here on irc
[01:05] <ogra> thats just a change to the isolinux text .. its trivial
[01:05] <pips1> oh, so you could easily add a one-liner description for 'workstation' then
[01:06] <pips1> is that on your list?
[01:06] <pips1> :-)
[01:07] <ogra> could you file a bug agauinst debian-installer and assign it to me as reminder ?
[01:08] <pips1> ok, will do
[01:13] <pips1> can I assign you in malone? do I need to "subscribe" you? how do I do it?
[01:13] <pips1> if found hostmaster at grawert dot net
[01:15] <pips1> ogra, I don't know how to 'assign' you to the bug in malone, I only see an option to "subscribe" you to get change notes for the bug...
[01:15] <pips1> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/36139
[01:16] <ogra> you click on the package name in the top table ...
[01:16] <ogra> there you can change asignee severity etc ...
[01:32] <Bluekuja> here i am again
[01:32] <Bluekuja> pipsl still there?
[01:32] <pips1> Bluekuja, now I'm eating :-)
[01:33] <pips1> talk to you later
[01:33] <pips1> ?
[01:33] <Bluekuja> hehe oki tell me when u finish
[01:33] <Bluekuja> ;)
[01:36] <Bluekuja> hi mhz :)
[01:36] <mhz> hey
[01:36] <Bluekuja> how are you?all ok?
[01:36] <mhz> just reaing emails and getting ready to leave
[01:37] <Bluekuja> hehe
[01:37] <Bluekuja> a busy man
[01:37] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: doin' fine
[01:37] <mhz> highvoltage: morning
[01:40] <Bluekuja> wat time is it there?
[01:40] <highvoltage> mhz: good afternoon from my side
[01:40] <mhz> 08:40
[01:41] <Bluekuja> hehehe
[01:41] <highvoltage> 14:41 here.
[01:42] <Bluekuja> 13.41 here
[01:56] <mhz> highvoltage: you know if Luke Yelavich is around or his nick ?
[01:57] <highvoltage> mhz: i don't know
[02:00] <ogra> mhz, TheMuso
[02:00] <ogra> he's in -devel
[02:01] <Bluekuja> ogra
[02:02] <Bluekuja> are u there?
[02:02] <mhz> ogra: Hi!!
[02:02] <Bluekuja> aww gone hehe
[02:02] <ogra> nah
[02:03] <Bluekuja> lol
[02:03] <ogra> i just do my work aside ... cant always answer immediately
[02:03] <Bluekuja> yeah :)
[02:04] <highvoltage> hehe. ogra you make it sound like IRC is your main thing and work is just something you do aside :)
[02:04] <ogra> highvoltage, it sometimes is ;)
[02:05] <ogra> on wednesdays for example ...
[02:05] <ogra> ususally the meeting brings up questions that keep me chatting for hours before i can get to work again ;)
[02:05] <Bluekuja> hehe
[02:14] <pips1> here comes another question for ogra ;-)
[02:14] <pips1> my router's dhcp range starts at <IP_ADDRESS> and ends at <IP_ADDRESS>. So for the edubuntu server, do I pick an ip *within* or *outside* of that range?
[02:14] <ogra> pick the same ;)
[02:15] <ogra> but start at .2
[02:15] <pips1> right
[02:15] <ogra> .1 should be the router :)
[02:15] <pips1> but I got a laptop and a imac here too, they areadly might have .2 or .3 or whatnot ?
[02:16] <pips1> my laptop got .4 actually
[02:16] <pips1> does it matter if I pick something and there is a "gap" in the numbering, shouldn't be a problem, right?
[02:16] <ogra> nope
[02:17] <ogra> thats fine ..
[02:17] <pips1> ah sorry, I wrote something wrong
[02:17] <pips1> my router's dhcp range starts at <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:18] <pips1> funnily enough, my laptop is at .4, so I don't quite understand how that is possible
[02:19] <pips1> do I pick <IP_ADDRESS> for the server then?
[02:19] <ogra> just pick one :)
[02:19] <ogra> it doesnt matter :)
[02:19] <pips1> right, ok
[02:19] <ogra> it just has to be consistent ...
[02:20] <ogra> worst case you need to renew the IPs on the other two machines
[02:20] <pips1> define "consistent" please ;-)
[02:21] <ogra> use the same ip for the server everywhere ;)
[02:21] <pips1> ok, gotcha
[02:30] <pips1> ogra, my router's id is <IP_ADDRESS> so I used that very same ip for gateway and name server... right?
[02:31] <ogra> nameserver might be your providers nameserver
[02:31] <ogra> gateway is right ...
[02:31] <pips1> darn... I guess I need to reconfigure the nameserver later in that case
[02:32] <ogra> use <IP_ADDRESS>
[02:32] <ogra> thats my server ...
[02:32] <pips1> what happens if the installer can't resolve ?
[02:32] <pips1> will the installation proceed, simply without internet access?
[02:32] <ogra> you wont get langpackages from the repo
[02:32] <ogra> yep
[02:32] <ogra> it will get slower though ...
[02:33] <pips1> right... well that's what happening now :-)
[02:33] <pips1> oops
[02:33] <pips1> debootstrap-warning
[02:34] <pips1> ...deb was corrupt
[02:34] <ogra> ouch
[02:34] <ogra> how fast did you burn ?
[02:34] <pips1> udev_079-0ubuntu18_amd64.deb
[02:34] <pips1> I burnt it at 8x
[02:34] <ogra> hmm
[02:35] <ogra> do a integrity check ...
[02:35] <pips1> so I choose <back> and do that check...
[02:36] <pips1> it won't really let me go back... it's trying one package after the other...
[02:36] <ogra> so you didnt have a red screen ?
[02:37] <pips1> gives me all those warnings "Couldn't download package ..."
[02:37] <pips1> yes red screen
[02:37] <ogra> then start over again ...
[02:37] <ogra> either your download or the media is broken
[02:37] <pips1> i simply reboot?
[02:37] <ogra> yep
[02:39] <pips1> well, probably download was broken because I used that wrong ip for nameserve
[02:39] <pips1> r
[02:40] <pips1> when asked about proxy, should I enter a ubuntu mirror? or is proxy used for something else?
[02:41] <pips1> ah, corrupt install cd
[02:41] <pips1> oh, dear
[02:43] <ogra> proxy is used if you have a http proxy anywhere ...
[02:43] <ogra> if you didnt use one before, just ignore it
[02:45] <neurogeek> mhz, ping
[02:45] <mhz> neurogeek: pong
[02:45] <neurogeek> mhz, how is it going? did you get anything from Ricardo?
[02:46] <mhz> nope, unfortunately
[02:47] <mhz> and I have asked for extentention and they gae until today in 1 hour
[02:51] <neurogeek> OK, let me check that again
[02:51] <mhz> neurogeek: I appreciate it
[02:51] <mhz> they like the idea of a biz man reglated to FLOSS
[03:07] <flint> ogra, finally figured out the edubuntu mail delay.  Kinda simple, I set myself up as getting the digest.  This does not make for responsiveness but is great for throughput. so it goes.
[03:08] <ogra> heh
[03:08] <ogra> fix that then :)
[03:09] <flint> ogra, na, I think that I enjoy the rumor mill followed by the facts, kinda like the current Amerikan Media and Bush Administration.  Would feel uncomfortable with the facts prior to the spin. :^)
[03:18] <mhz> ogra: have you seen Yagisan latey?
[03:18] <mhz> lately
[03:19] <ogra> he was here this week, yes
[03:21] <mhz> ogra: thx
[03:22] <ogra> great
[03:22] <pips1_> is there a way for selecting a local ubuntu mirror during install?
[03:23] <pips1_> or is the mirror selected automatically?
[03:23] <ogra> i think in the expert install thats possible
[03:23] <pips1_> oic
[03:24] <pips1_> so proxy has nothing to do with that at all...
[03:24] <ogra> else it will select the mirror based on your language selection
[03:24] <ogra> nope
[03:24] <pips1_> i can leave proxy blank, then?
[03:24] <ogra> yep
[03:24] <ogra> just hit enter
[03:24] <pips1_> ok, cheers
[03:27] <jsgotangco> hey all
[03:27] <pips1_> I hope it runs through this time :-) I'm still a bit confused about those network settings, I though I understood the basic concepts, about private networks vs. public networks, nat, etc. but it's all a bit abstract :-)
[03:28] <pips1_> hey jsgotangco
[03:31] <neurogeek> mhz, Ricardo will be online in a few mins
[03:32] <highvoltage> bye!
[03:35] <mhz> neurogeek: his cv, his cv :D
[03:38] <Bluekuja> jane?
[03:39] <Bluekuja> ogra ?
[03:42] <mphill> does anyone have any suggestions on educational software that does not come with ubuntu?
[03:42] <mphill> rather edubuntu
[03:43] <Bluekuja> u mean
[03:43] <Bluekuja> u need additional software
[03:43] <mphill> yes
[03:43] <Bluekuja> educational one
[03:43] <Bluekuja> in ubuntu
[03:43] <mphill> additional education software
[03:44] <Bluekuja> well you can find
[03:44] <Bluekuja> in
[03:44] <Bluekuja> apllications
[03:44] <Bluekuja> add applications
[03:44] <Bluekuja> edutainment
[03:45] <Bluekuja> a lot of educational sofwatre
[03:45] <Bluekuja> *software
[03:45] <Bluekuja> that u can easily add
[03:45] <mphill> does edubuntu have the ltsp included and in the same location of /opt/ltsp?
[03:45] <ogra> yes
[03:45] <Bluekuja> i think yes
[03:46] <Bluekuja> yes it have it
[03:46] <Bluekuja> ogra
[03:46] <Bluekuja> i need to talk with u one moment
[03:46] <Bluekuja> :)
[03:46] <ogra> you can also look at ofset.org or schoolforge.net for software thats not packaged yet, they have lists
[03:46] <ogra> Bluekuja, just ask your question :)
[03:46] <ogra> (no need to ask to ask :) )
[03:50] <mphill> ogra: have done setup for school?
[03:50] <mphill> s/school/schools
[03:51] <ogra> mphill, not personally, no, but there are plenty of people using edubuntu at schools
[03:53] <mphill> from a principle stand point, do you think its shardy if I were to develope and angel of my business into getting all machinces and setting up linux labs for a fraction of what a lab costs, and make money off that. keep in mind the school would be saving thousands of dollars.
[03:53] <mphill> i should proof read before i send :)
[03:54] <ogra> 7me looks up shardy
[04:05] <strusberg> Hi Mhz
[04:05] <mhz> strusberg: hi!!!
[04:06] <mhz> strusberg, please join #mhz
[04:06] <strusberg> mhz, ok
[04:14] <mhz> strusberg: leyendo
[04:31] <pips1_> ogra, found a wierd localisation bug: the installer ask me if I want to download language support - this question is in english, rather than german, like all the dialog questions before... I downloaded the debian-installer language file (po) from launchpad, but I could find those english strings in the po file at all...
[04:32] <pips1_> so... against what should I file a bug?
[04:32] <ogra> look at rosetta, it should be in there
[04:32] <ogra> debian-installer as well
[04:32] <ogra> oh, no, wait
[04:33] <ogra> i think the installer translations are handled by Kamion separately
[04:33] <pips1_> right
[04:33] <pips1_> so what do I do?
[04:33] <ogra> ping him ?
[04:34] <pips1_> where would i find him? in #ubuntu-dev? or smth?
[04:34] <ogra> -devel is fine
[04:34] <pips1_> ah, right
[05:06] <mphill> i was never prompted to enter a root password
[05:06] <ogra> see wiki.edubuntu.org/RootSudo
[05:08] <mphill> can i switch to the traditional way
[05:08] <ogra> sure, but you'll still need your own password for all the gui tools
[05:09] <ogra> so you wont gain much with setting a root pw
[05:10] <ogra> sudo -s is fine for becoming root permanently and you only need to keep one PW in mind and dont loose the advantage of a locked root
[05:11] <pips1_> ogra, there's no internet access on the server :-( I must have chosen a wrong ip for gateway perhaps... if I do route, i get desination: localnet and gateway: * ???
[05:12] <ogra> can you ping the gateway ip ?#
[05:12] <pips1> lemme try
[05:13] <pips1> nope, host unreachable
[05:13] <ogra> hmm, but your route has a fixed IP ?
[05:13] <ogra> *router
[05:14] <pips1> nope
[05:14] <pips1> don't thinks so
[05:14] <ogra> ah...
[05:14] <ogra> the router should have a fixed IP you can reach ...
[05:14] <ogra> damned, i didnt tell you that before ...
[05:14] <pips1> hold on, there might be a misunderstanding
[05:15] <pips1> the *external* ip isn't fixed, but my routers ip is fixed, i think?
[05:16] <pips1> I mean, I can reach my router with the same ip in our private network
[05:17] <pips1> but I think the provider assigns the public ip to my router dynamically, or smth
[05:17] <pips1> does this make sense at all???
[05:18] <ogra> but your ltsp server is attached to the inside of the router, right ?
[05:18] <pips1> yes
[05:18] <ogra> and you choose the same IP parameters the routers IP is in for the dhcp server
[05:19] <pips1> setup as such: router - combined hardwarefirewall/8portswitch - hub - server
[05:19] <ogra> i.e. if the router is <IP_ADDRESS> you choose 192.168.100.X for the dhcp server
[05:19] <pips1> yes, me thinks
[05:20] <ogra> hmm, then you should be able to ping <IP_ADDRESS> from the server in my above example ...
[05:21] <pips1> well, my laptop is on the same hub as the server, and i can reach the router from my laptop...
[05:21] <ogra> whats the ip of the server ?
[05:21] <ogra> and whats the exact ip of the router ?
[05:21] <pips1> <IP_ADDRESS> <-- that is from the dhcp range of my router
[05:22] <ogra> ok
[05:22] <ogra> and the router ?
[05:22] <pips1> ^^^^^^^^ thats the ip of server
[05:22] <ogra> <IP_ADDRESS> ?
[05:22] <pips1> yes
[05:22] <ogra> hmm, then something is wrong ...
[05:22] <ogra> you should even be able to ping it without a route set ...
[05:23] <ogra> can you paste the output of sudo route ?
[05:23] <pips1> ok
[05:23] <ogra> ah, forget the sudo :)
[05:23] <pips1> well, I can't paste directly, so i'll copy it manually...
[05:24] <ogra> Ziel            Router          Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
[05:24] <ogra> <IP_ADDRESS>   *               <IP_ADDRESS>   U     0      0        0 eth2
[05:24] <ogra> default         <IP_ADDRESS>   <IP_ADDRESS>         UG    0      0        0 eth2
[05:24] <ogra> thats a working routing table ...
[05:24] <pips1> localnet * <IP_ADDRESS> U 0 0 0 eth0
[05:24] <ogra> yours should be similar with other ips
[05:25] <pips1> and the second line:
[05:25] <ogra> ah, try route -n
[05:25] <ogra> we want ips :)
[05:25] <pips1> default <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> UG 0 0 0 eth0
[05:25] <ogra> looks ok
[05:25] <pips1> ok
[05:26] <ogra> localnet should be <IP_ADDRESS> in the first line if you run with -n
[05:26] <pips1> <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> <IP_ADDRESS> U 0 0 0 eth0
[05:26] <ogra> looks fine ...
[05:26] <ogra> hmm
[05:26] <ogra> thats strange
[05:26] <pips1> :-D
[05:26] <pips1> hehe
[05:26] <ogra> the dhcp server on the router is disabled ?
[05:26] <pips1> no, enabled?
[05:26] <ogra> and you dont have the .33 used anywhere ?
[05:26] <pips1> sorry, enabled!
[05:27] <ogra> ah :)
[05:27] <ogra> you cant run two dhcp servers easily in one LAN :)
[05:28] <ogra> (you can, but it gives even me a cold shower to think about setting it up)
[05:28] <pips1> i thought you said i could leave it enabled, but that I just needed to put the right ip values, accordingly
[05:28] <ogra> nope
[05:28] <ogra> you can only run one ...
[05:28] <pips1> oh, misunderstood you then
[05:28] <ogra> else they'll clash
[05:28] <ogra> and the router needs a fixed ip ...
[05:28] <pips1> so, should I just disable the dhcp on the router, then?
[05:29] <pips1> I didn't apply for a fixed ip with my provider, me thinks, it's more expensive :-/
[05:30] <pips1> in the router web config menu, it looks as if I could set a fixed ip, I just wouldn't know what ip to use, since I didn't get one from the provider
[05:30] <ogra> no, the router needs a fixed ip on the inside ...
[05:30] <pips1> ah, ok
[05:30] <ogra> (<IP_ADDRESS> ;) )
[05:31] <pips1> ok, so I simply turn of dhcp on the router and reboot edubuntu?
[05:31] <ogra> yep
[05:31] <ogra> not sure you need to reboot though
[05:32] <ogra> sudo ifdown/ifup might do it
[05:32] <pips1> what happens to my laptop and wife's imac ip's? will they just continue to work?
[05:33] <ogra> you might need to renew them ... they should pick up the IPs from the ltsp dhcp
[05:33] <pips1> :-)
[05:42] <pips1> ogra, strange, I disabled, dhcp on the router, but no change, i.e. still can't reach the router on the server
[05:42] <ogra> are you sure that physically is everything ok ?
[05:43] <pips1> lemme double check
[05:43] <ogra> wiring etc ...
[05:43] <ogra> there is no reason it wouldnt work the way you've set it up
[05:43] <pips1> well, the wires all seem fine, the ethernet led's on both hub and server nic are blinking...
[05:44] <ogra> hmm
[05:44] <ogra> you should be able to ping then ...
[05:44] <pips1> i'll try to ping my laptop from the server
[05:44] <ogra> yes, good idea
[05:45] <pips1> no luck
[05:45] <pips1> "unreachable"
[05:45] <ogra> hmm ...
[05:45] <ogra> weird
[05:45] <ogra> and they all are on the same hub ?
[05:45] <pips1> ha! i can successfully ping the server from my laptop !
[05:46] <pips1> how strange indeed
[05:46] <ogra> yeah
[05:46] <pips1> a "one-way" nic on my server ;-)
[05:48] <pips1> could I try to ssh from my laptop to the server?
[05:52] <pips1> aha, temporary failure in name resolution
[05:53] <ogra> sure, if you cant reach the internet, you cant reach my server for dns resolution
[05:53] <pips1> right
[05:54] <pips1> it's so strange, my laptop reaches the internet just fine
[05:54] <pips1> do you think my hardware-firewall could be the culprit?
[05:55] <pips1> not really, eh
[05:57] <ogra> hmm
[05:58] <ogra> can you get around it easily to check it ?
[05:58] <pips1> yes
[05:58] <pips1> it sitting under the stairs
[05:59] <pips1> what could i check though?
[06:33] <pips1> ogra, I need to investigate about my router and hwfirewall... I think i never actually disabled dhcp on the router, also, I discovered that the hw-firewall *also* provides a dhcp server, what a mess!!
[06:33] <ogra> urgh
[06:34] <pips1> the web interfaces to the router and hw-firewall aren't that terribly conclusive
[06:34] <lucasvo> better than writing your own rules
[06:34] <lucasvo> Iptables -d bla bla bla
[06:36] <pips1> unchecking the dhcp checkbox resulted in a page refresh, but actually, dhcp was still active, I need to press a form button for the change to actually happen... but without dhcp, my laptop couldn't even even reach the router's ip anymore... so I had to hardware-reset the router to get dhcp back up and be able to get to the web interface of the router... bla
[06:37] <pips1> lucasvo, yes, but at least you see exactly what you configured/wrote in iptables ;-)
[06:37] <lucasvo> pips1: yeah, but you also have to understand it
[06:37] <pips1> hehe
[06:37] <lucasvo> I didn't write my own. fwbuilder is actually quite good
[06:38] <pips1> no pain, no gain
[06:38] <pips1> ;-)
[06:39] <pips1> well, it depends on how many services you need to run... if it's just 4 or so services, it's not that hard to write it yourself in iptables
[06:40] <pips1> block all, and just open the ports you need...
[06:40] <pips1> anyway
[06:40] <HedgeMage> I often do it by hand, mostly out of habit :)
[06:41] <pips1> ogra, i'll need to continue another day, gotta go, but thanks for all your patient answers! :-)
[06:41] <ogra> thanks for testing :)
[06:44] <lucasvo> yes, but I mean with NAT, dns, dhcp, www, and last but not least portmap/nfs
[06:44] <lucasvo> Lag: 132
[06:44] <lucasvo> uff
[06:44] <pips1> I am getting a better idea of what needs to go into a howto for a newbie ;-) all those built-in dhcp and whatnot services in the router/switch/firewall/whatever-hardware are quite confusing
[06:44] <ogra> why would you forward portmap/nfs to the world ?
[06:44] <ogra> thats evil :)
[06:45] <ogra> an ddhcp wont gain you anything if you forward it
[06:46] <ogra> pips1, the prob is that every router is different ... you cant cover them all
[06:48] <pips1> ogra, hmm, well I think i'm starting to understand why it will be difficult for edubuntu to find lots of community testing... every newb can do a workstation install on their own lappie, but setting up a lab, requires two or more machines, networking hardware, etc..
[06:49] <ogra> yep
[06:49] <ogra> but i got enough HW to do basic testing and people like spacey are really helpful
[06:50] <pips1> ogra, Kamion will merge some translations that he forgot...
[06:50] <ogra> yep, i saw
[06:50] <ogra> :)
[06:50] <pips1> ok, need to run, see you!
[06:51] <ogra> bye, and thanks :)
[07:13] <mwright1night> hello
[07:13] <mwright1night> Is the new LTSP 4.2 going to be in edubuntu now that the date has been pushed out to 1st Jun
[07:14] <mwright1night> 4.2 should be released around April 15
[07:15] <ogra> mwright1night, we ship the ltsp muecow (4.2) implementation since breezy
[07:17] <ogra> debian just adopted our packages to etch and backports them to sarge
[07:18] <ogra> if you want to use ltsp.org 4.2 (and loose upgradeability through that), you are free to do so, but we'll ship the muecow implementation ...
[07:19] <ogra> they are developed very close to each other (i work with jim mc quillian and scott balneaves)
[07:27] <mwright1night> orgra yes I am aware
[07:27] <mwright1night> what I am trying to understand is, will the new local devices support and local apps support from the main tree 4.2 be in the dapper drake releasE?
[07:27] <ogra> nope
[07:27] <ogra> we postponed that to dapper+1
[07:28] <ogra> i personally dont like the lbus approach, but jim and scott had no dbus specialist around ...
[07:29] <ogra> the right way will be to add X transport to dbus, so you can just attach it to the established ssh tunnel ..
[07:29] <ogra> that needs to be specced out very good, we didnt quite make it at the conference in montreal ...
[07:33] <mwright1night> will jim change if you get the right people to put it together
[07:33] <mwright1night> and go dbus
[07:33] <mwright1night> I actually don't know what lbus vs dbus is actually
[07:33] <ogra> dbus is the communication system the gnome apps use
[07:34] <mwright1night> and lbus is?
[07:34] <ogra> its already established in an ubuntu desktop session
[07:34] <ogra> and lbus is a reimplementation of the dbus protocol to do the communication between server and client for the mount process
[07:35] <ogra> if i plug in a camera in ubuntu, the kernel and udev wil automatically create a device in /dev ...
[07:35] <ogra> to get the server to mount it, the server needs to know that device just appeared
[07:36] <ogra> so lbus sends a notification from the client to the server
[07:36] <ogra> which then executes a mount of the device over the network ...
[07:37] <ogra> ubuntu ltsp already uses a ssh tunnel to do the X forwarding, and the desktop already uses dbus for the apps ...
[07:37] <ogra> the idea is to attach dbus to both sides of the tunnel and let the communication go in there instead of opening an extra port (lbus) and have communication via an additional channel
[07:38] <ogra> jim might not take that path, since i dont know if he can be sure to have dbus available on all desktops ...
[07:39] <ogra> the ubuntu approach is far more intergrated into the system, ltsp.org 4.2 is for all distros ...
[07:39] <ogra> they use the same base ... but with ltsp.org you will never be able to upgrade right away...
[07:39] <mwright1night> nice approach
[07:39] <mwright1night> seems like the cleanest option
[07:40] <mwright1night> we are FC4 moving to FC5 this weekend.
[07:40] <ogra> i have some other things in mind that go a completely different path ... but lest see ...
[07:40] <mwright1night> I am waiting for my moment to move to ubuntu
[07:40] <ogra> what hinders you ?
[07:40] <mwright1night> if you get this dbus architecture then it is another compelling reason
[07:41] <mwright1night> not much now, previously things did.
[07:41] <ogra> ah
[07:41] <mwright1night> I will definitely do it at the end of the year, with the next version
[07:41] <mwright1night> I said that about Dapper Drake as well
[07:41] <mwright1night> and slipped on that
[07:41] <mwright1night> what kind of paper do you use where you live?
[07:41] <mwright1night> A4 or Letter?
[07:42] <ogra> A4
[07:42] <ogra> doesnt all of the world apart from the US use A4 ?
[07:42] <mwright1night> Have you noticed the bug in Firefox where it won't remember the Paper setting, or read the global setting?
[07:42] <mwright1night> Probably.
[07:42] <ogra> nope, i never print from firefox ...
[07:42] <ogra> at least its ages ago i did it the last time
[07:43] <mwright1night> so you get stuck on American Letter.  To make the system acceptable we had to purchase a new printer that had an A4/Letter auto override
[07:43] <ogra> nah, there must be a fix
[07:43] <mwright1night> that is such a bad usability bug,  it's upstream.. I am planning on logging it in the ubuntu bug tracking system cuase the Fedora people haven't cared about it for 1.5 years that I've been harassing them over it
[07:43] <mwright1night> There is not.. I'm serious
[07:44] <ogra> and it happens in ubuntu as well ?
[07:44] <mwright1night> I will test dapper drake, and if it's fixed I'll flame the Redhat guys to fix it
[07:44] <mwright1night> did happen in Breezy
[07:44] <mwright1night> I gave away my Dapper drake test cd the other day
[07:45] <mwright1night> anyway after the FC5 upgrade, because things are getting so good on the desktop, and we are having so few issues now, I will log any long standing bugs in multiple distributions bugzilla's
[07:45] <mwright1night> as they have different priorities -- ubuntu cares much more about usability than redhat people in my experience
[07:45] <ogra> :)
[08:50] <DeMoNSeEd> ogra are you around
[08:51] <ogra> DeMoNSeEd, yes, but a bit busy, preparing for a meeting in 10 min
[08:51] <DeMoNSeEd> k
[08:51] <DeMoNSeEd> it's just a quickie, GCompris runs super now
[08:52] <ogra> great :)
[08:53] <DeMoNSeEd> nut can't seem to get anything but a smartass answer in ubuntu proper room about the multiple floppy thing, i edited fstab and media, but floppy still won't mount, what else do i need to do, getting the suggestion in buntu room of ,"just don't use floppies", just doesn't cut it
[08:54] <LaserJock> ogra: do you always have edubuntu meetings at the same time?
[08:54] <ogra> LaserJock, yep
[08:55] <ogra> 12:00 UTC on wednesdays
[08:55] <LaserJock> darn
[08:55] <DeMoNSeEd> are they aware of this multiple floppy bug?
[09:03] <LaserJock> does Edubuntu have any science minded people on board?
[09:03] <ogra> there are some on the ML
[09:04] <LaserJock> ogra: ok, any MOTUs or are you pretty much it?
[09:04] <ogra> and the clear target is to grow big enough at some point that you can set up a whole university with it
[09:04] <ogra> i'm pretty much it :)
[09:05] <LaserJock> ok, I'm just trying to gauge need, etc. so I can plan my dapper+1 work ;-)
[09:07] <DeMoNSeEd> does anyone know the cure for the multiple flopy thing
[09:07] <DeMoNSeEd> *floppy
[09:08] <ogra> LaserJock, i'd definately like to have the mentioned metapackages in dapper+1 in any case, i'm fine doing them myself if you dont want, what i need is someone with a deeper knowledge of the apps to tell me what is good to include and what not :)
[09:09] <LaserJock> ogra: well, I'
[09:09] <LaserJock> I'm saying I might be interested in getting more involved with edubuntu ;-)
[09:10] <ogra> :)))
[09:11] <DeMoNSeEd> anyone?
[09:11] <LaserJock> especially if I can integrate it with my MOTUScience work
[09:12] <ogra> (sorry, dapper dev meeting currently)
[09:14] <LaserJock> DeMoNSeEd: did you try #ubuntu+1 ?
[09:14] <DeMoNSeEd> what is that
[09:14] <DeMoNSeEd> a help room
[09:14] <LaserJock> the irc channel for Dapper support, I think
[09:14] <DeMoNSeEd> oh, cool, i had no idea of it, ty
[09:15] <DeMoNSeEd> it's odd as i have dapper on 2 machines here, 1 is fine, but on this machine here, i end up showing 7 floppies, none of which will mount
[09:16] <ogra> there is a bug somewhere in launchpad about it ...
[09:16] <DeMoNSeEd> woulda been nice if they had least told me that
[09:16] <LaserJock> who?
[09:17] <DeMoNSeEd> anyone in ubuntu proper room
[09:17] <DeMoNSeEd> then i'd know that it was to be fixed
[09:17] <LaserJock> well, they have to know it to tell you ;-)
[09:18] <DeMoNSeEd> k, i'll try that room for a quick fix for now, i musta missed something after editing fstab and /media
[09:19] <DeMoNSeEd> i know, when i inquired, i got backm maybe we do know or maybe we don't, coy answers are sometimes the rule
[09:19] <DeMoNSeEd> not helpful though
[09:19] <DeMoNSeEd> k, thanks for the room tip
[09:19] <LaserJock> np
[09:26] <DeMoNSeEd> LaserJock, do you know off hand if i'll be able to order cd's of Edubuntu as I do in the case of Ubuntu?
[09:26] <ogra> for dapper, yes
[09:28] <DeMoNSeEd> cool, I've got 2 schols "interested", so it's looking good, need to get a bug free...or close to...setup before i make a presentation, being able to give then a pro set of cd's will be a great help.....the stigma of free software is not helped by homemade cd's
[09:28] <DeMoNSeEd> *schools


[02:13] <micahg> should we remove sources for packages that don't build any binaries on arches we support?
[02:19] <MTecknology> "What about the rdepends?"
[02:19] <MTecknology> How can I answer this?
[02:19] <micahg> MTecknology: what's the question?
[02:20] <MTecknology> How do I know if a new package affects rdepends?
[02:21] <micahg> MTecknology: apt-rdepends -r BINARYPKGNAME
[02:21] <micahg> MTecknology: and reverse-build-depends BINARYPKGNAME
[02:21] <MTecknology> apt-utils supplies those commands?
[02:22] <micahg> MTecknology: no
[02:23] <MTecknology> oh.. ubuntu-dev-tools
[02:31] <MTecknology> rdepends are packages that depend on this package, right?
[02:31] <micahg> MTecknology: yep
[02:32] <MTecknology> thanks :)
[05:39] <ScottK> micahg: No.  Just ignore sources that don't build for our archs.  Removing them bloats the sync blacklist to no purpose (they don't hurt anything).
[06:13] <micahg> ScottK: right, thanks
[06:29] <c2tarun> !git
[06:36] <c2tarun> !svn
[06:36] <micahg> !msgthebot > c2tarun
[06:37] <c2tarun> micahg: sorry, I was not knowing this is also a way :( sorry
[06:37] <micahg> c2tarun: no problem, now you can query the bot all you want :)
[06:37] <c2tarun> micahg: yup :)
[06:38] <c2tarun> micahg: its still getting displayed here.
[06:39] <jmarsden> c2tarun: Yes, but noone except you can see it now :)
[06:39] <c2tarun> jmarsden: oh.... :) got it.
[06:39] <jmarsden> :)
[06:40] <artfwo> how can I tell quilt, that I want to rename a file in a patch?
[06:40] <artfwo> I am not sure, that "quilt add oldname newname && mv oldname newname" is the right way to do it
[06:41] <c2tarun> artfwo: add that new filename to patch and then rename old one. then refresh
[06:41] <micahg> artfwo: there's a quilt rename command as well
[06:42] <c2tarun> micahg: thats for reaming patch I guess not for renaming files.
[06:42] <micahg> ah, right
[06:42] <artfwo> yes, rename is for patches
[06:43] <c2tarun> artfwo: try how I told, and tell me if it works.
[06:44] <artfwo> c2tarun, it works, but I thought there may be a smarter solution :)
[06:44] <c2tarun> artfwo: ya there may be :) please tell me if you find one.
[07:11] <c2tarun> what is trunk?
[07:17] <jmarsden> c2tarun: In the context of animals, it is the nose of an elephant :)  In the context of version control systems, it is the main stream of code from which other secondary streams of development can branch off.
[07:18] <c2tarun> jmarsden: ok, so it means that git get branch of from trunk?
[07:18] <jmarsden> I do not know what context you are seeing the word "trunk" in, so I can't answer that :)
[07:19] <hyperair> a trunk is a suitcase.
[07:19]  * hyperair hides
[07:19] <jmarsden> c2tarun: You should probably read more about version control systems and bzr and git to get a good understanding of this stuff
[07:19]  * micahg finds hyperair hiding behind a trunk
[07:19] <jmarsden> c2tarun: You should probably ignore hyperair :)
[07:20] <c2tarun> jmarsden: I was looking on project neon, there I am getting these words very frequently like svn/git trunk. :/
[07:20] <jmarsden> c2tarun: OK, so read up on distributed version control systems a little and then come back to what you are doing.
[07:22] <c2tarun> jmarsden: is there any wiki page for this?
[07:23] <jmarsden> Probably... I'll see what I can find...
[07:24] <jmarsden> Try http://learn.github.com/p/intro.html for a tutorial about git
[07:25] <jmarsden> c2tarun: And maybe http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-dist_ver_control/ for a more general into to distributed version control.
[07:26] <c2tarun> jmarsden: these links are awesome :) thanks
[07:26] <jmarsden> c2tarun: You're welcome.
[07:28] <c2tarun> one more help please, earlier when I was using ubuntu lucid when buffering of any video ends then I can copy that video from /tmp folder, but since I switched to kubuntu maverick there are no such videos in that tmp folder. why?
[07:30] <jmarsden> That's not a MOTU-ish packaging-related question... I don't generally watch videos on Ubuntu... sounds like the software you are using to watch videos has been fixed to tidy up after itself and delete the temp files it uses -- but that is just a guess.
[07:41] <hyperair> c2tarun: are you talking about Flash videos?
[07:43] <hyperair> the current version of Flash seems to create a /tmp/FlashXXXXXX file, keep the file descriptor open, and then delete it.
[07:44] <hyperair> meaning that if you do lsof -n | grep Flash, you'll see which file descriptor points at this deleted file. then you can go to /proc/$pid/fd/$fd (specifically, cat /proc/$pid/fd/$fd > /path/to/newfile
[07:45] <hyperair> i frequently also just run mplayer on the partially-buffered file the same way =p
[08:15] <c2tarun> hyperair: ping
[08:37] <hyperair> c2tarun: pong
[08:38] <c2tarun> hyperair: this channel is not for discussing Flash problem :( can I PM you?
[08:38] <hyperair> sure
[12:20] <c2tarun> If a package has newer version in debian and no watch file, how can I get it from debian?
[12:28] <micahg> c2tarun: pull-debian-source in ubuntu-dev-tools
[12:47] <c2tarun> there is package tracked by ftbfs tracker, its newer version in debian claims in its changelog that it fixed the ftbfs problem, but package still fails to build on natty, what can I do? I know how to fix, but how can I close same debian bug in two changelog entries?
[12:49] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: a lot of things can cause FTBFS, if it is fixed in debian doesn't mean it is in Ubuntu, you should probably file a new ftbfs bug
[12:50] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: what's the package?
[12:50] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: bfm
[12:50] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: some errors mentioned in debian's bug error log are same
[12:50] <c2tarun> i'll brb
[12:51] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: yup I am back :) you looked at the package?
[12:52] <Bachstelze> looking at it now
[12:52] <Bachstelze> you can't do these things in 30 seconds ;)
[12:53] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: sorry :)
[13:05] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: what's the debian bug number?
[13:05] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=553959
[13:06] <Bachstelze> debian bug 553959
[13:07] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: that's the prefered way ;)
[13:07] <c2tarun> oh ... :) sorry
[13:11] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: found something?
[13:13] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: the new versions adds -lX11, but all the -l flags are still in the wrong place
[13:13] <Bachstelze> they should be after the .c files, not before
[13:14] <Bachstelze> on the command line
[13:14] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: so what should I do, file a new bug into debian?
[13:15] <Bachstelze> it's related, so report in the same bug
[13:15] <Bachstelze> and see what the maintainer says
[13:15] <Bachstelze> but wait a bit, I'll see if that's really the problem
[13:16] <c2tarun> sure
[13:16] <micahg> Debian might not have all the default flags that we do on
[13:18]  * Bachstelze nods
[13:18] <Bachstelze> --as-needed is probably the culprit here
[13:25] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: what should I do
[13:32] <c2tarun> I have problem with one more package, there is a package named btnx in that ftbfs bug tracker, its ubuntu1 version failed to build, should this error be reported to debian?
[13:35] <Bachstelze> what's ubuntu1 for?
[13:36] <c2tarun> I mean  btnx_0.4.11-3ubuntu1 version failed, as this incorporated the changes for ubuntu so I asked.
[13:38] <Bachstelze> yes
[13:38] <Bachstelze> I meant what changes does ubuntu1 bring opver the version in Debian?
[13:38]  * c2tarun looking
[13:39] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: something related to source code. must be necessary
[13:39] <Bachstelze> yeah
[13:40] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: so what should I do? report it to debian?
[13:40] <Bachstelze> so report it to both, we need an Ubuntu-specific patch anyway since we have already diverted
[13:40] <Bachstelze> there is no newer revision in Debian
[13:40] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: no there is no newer revision in debian + there is no patch as well. package doesn't follow any patch system
[13:43] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: http://paste.ubuntu.com/576463/
[13:43] <Bachstelze> bfm builds fine with this
[13:43] <Bachstelze> see how the LIBS must be after the SRCS
[13:44] <Bachstelze> last part
[13:45] <Bachstelze> or after the OBJS, depending on what you're doing
[13:45] <Bachstelze> but always at the end of the command line
[13:46] <c2tarun> I would have also done same thing but not in that proffesional way :( why you remove line 7 from comment?
[13:46] <Bachstelze> I only did the last part
[13:47] <Bachstelze> line 7 is already in 0.6.4-4
[13:48] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: not getting what do you mean by last part? if its in last part how come its in debdiff?
[13:48] <Bachstelze> it's not a debdiff
[13:48] <c2tarun> i mean diff
[13:48] <Bachstelze> it's part of the .diff.gz for my fixed package
[13:49] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: ohh..... got it :)
[13:49] <Bachstelze> you normally don't submit debdiffs to debian, only patches
[13:49] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: so submittodebian submits patch like this?
[13:50] <Bachstelze> no idea, I have never used it
[13:50] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: so submittodebian submits creates patch like this?
[13:50] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: then how do you submit to debian?
[13:52] <Bachstelze> the old way, by email
[13:52] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: oh... :)
[15:22] <koenig> ive got question ive a deb package and i want to add this to the official ubuntu repostorys how can i do this
[15:22] <koenig> can sombody helpme pls ????
[15:23] <kklimonda> !revu | koenig
[15:25] <koenig> thanks for quick reply
[16:38] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: ping
[16:42] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: pong
[16:42] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: you remember that bfm package we discussed?
[16:43] <Bachstelze> yes
[16:43] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: dont you think bfm package is in condition for merge ( debian has a newer version which needs some change for building on ubuntu)
[16:47] <Bachstelze> c2tarun: we haven't diverted, so it would not be a merge, just a sync
[16:48] <Bachstelze> and we can apply the fix for --as-needed to the new debian revision
[16:48] <c2tarun> diverted means?
[16:49] <Bachstelze> it means that the apckage is different in Ubuntu and in Debian, denoted by ubuntuX appended to the version number
[16:51] <c2tarun> Bachstelze: so change for --as-needed can not be considered as a change enough for merge?
[16:51] <Bachstelze> the change is not commited to ubuntu yet, right ?
[16:53] <ScottK> If the package currently fails to build on Ubuntu due to --as-needed then we want that fixed in Ubuntu.
[16:53] <Bachstelze> can't we sync the new debian revision at the same time ?
[16:54] <Ampelbein> Bachstelze: that is called a merge.
[16:54] <Bachstelze> only if we have diverted
[16:54] <Bachstelze> we have not, or not yet at least
[16:54] <ScottK> Bachstelze: We still call it a merge if the package is different when uploaded even if it wasn't before.
[16:54] <Bachstelze> ok
[16:54] <Ampelbein> Bachstelze: it's still a merge if we introduce a change only now.
[16:54] <ScottK> The key point about a merge is we have to manually upload to Ubuntu.
[16:58] <c2tarun> ok, so I will file a bug for merge than
[18:28] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: FYI, output messages on lucas merges are outdated, you have to copy log from http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20110125-natty.html
[18:35] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: what log?
[18:35] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: when you create a bug on launchpad, you copy FTBFS log to description, right?
[18:36] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: that was not from lucas log, that was the actual error I got
[18:36] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: odd, in some cases I got another error than you
[18:37] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: what case?
[18:37] <c2tarun> I mean which casse
[18:37] <ari-tczew> wgrant: could you give me a link to latest rebuild of archive?
[18:38] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: bug 729118
[18:38] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: I got undefined reference to HMAC or something
[18:39] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: and please add
[18:39] <ari-tczew> Debian bug to this one
[18:39] <ari-tczew> on launchpad
[18:41] <c2tarun> ari-tczew: how to add debian bug?
[18:42] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: Also affects distribution
[18:44] <c2tarun> ari-tczew:  can you please check, is it fine now?
[18:47] <ari-tczew> c2tarun: yes, it's fine. when you receive message from bug tracker about fixed bug in Debian, it's sign to check whether we can drop changes in package.
[19:59] <m4n1sh> is watch file mandatory while packaging?
[20:00] <Bachstelze> m4n1sh: no
[20:00] <m4n1sh> Bachstelze: thanks
[20:00] <Bachstelze> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianwatch
[20:00] <Bachstelze> says it's recommended, though
[20:01] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: but it's considered good practice to include one and many reviewers will complain if its not there.
[20:03] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: the problem is that I am taking an upstream codebase
[20:03] <m4n1sh> which does not have autotools support
[20:03] <m4n1sh> so I took the codebase, added build support
[20:03] <m4n1sh> and hosting it myself
[20:03] <m4n1sh> and working side by side :(
[20:03] <Bachstelze> how is upstream supposed to be built thenN
[20:03] <Bachstelze> ?*
[20:04] <m4n1sh> it is a Visual Studio solution
[20:04] <m4n1sh> hosted at json.codeplex.com
[20:04] <m4n1sh> it is a .NET library
[20:04] <m4n1sh> works on mono also
[20:04] <Bachstelze> hmm
[20:04] <m4n1sh> but does not have any linux build system support
[20:04] <m4n1sh> it is a great library, since mono as of now doesnt have good json support
[20:05] <Bachstelze> not sure how to handle such cases, I think you should list yourself as upstream, since the source tarball is modified
[20:06] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: and you need a get-orig-source target if you modify the source tarball
[20:06] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: in which file
[20:06] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: debian/rules
[20:06] <m4n1sh> Bachstelze: I just added the build system but no codebase changes
[20:08] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: are you repacking the orig.tar.gz?
[20:08] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: the upstream is a zip file with source and binaries and blobs
[20:08] <m4n1sh> i mean upstream release
[20:08] <m4n1sh> stripping out everything
[20:09] <m4n1sh> and adding build support
[20:09] <m4n1sh> is what I am doing in my case
[20:09] <m4n1sh> and finally I am done
[20:09] <m4n1sh> and now trying to package it
[20:10] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: the point is, 'wget <upstreamsource>, tar xfz <debian-diff>' must result in the source that can be built. if it is not, you need a get-orig-source target.
[20:11] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: so if you repack the .zip to .tar.gz, you need to make a rule for that.
[20:11] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: okay. I have hosted my packagign in gitorious
[20:11] <m4n1sh> will release it
[20:11] <m4n1sh> and add that in watch
[20:11] <m4n1sh> still I need a rule?
[20:12] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: since debian only allows gz, bz2 and xz, yes, you need a rule to repack the tarball.
[20:13] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: the tarball I am releasing is tar.gz
[20:13] <m4n1sh> which I work  upon after taking the source from upstream
[20:14] <Bachstelze> m4n1sh: the point is that someone can take the package and use it with any new source release
[20:14] <Bachstelze> so that people can take over if you can't maintain the package antmore
[20:14] <Bachstelze> anymore*
[20:15] <m4n1sh> yes, but right now I am acting in the middle between the package and the upstream newtonsoft-json author
[20:15] <m4n1sh> since he does not support the build systems
[20:15] <m4n1sh> the upstream release files are a zip file
[20:15] <m4n1sh> with no LICENSE
[20:15] <m4n1sh> or README
[20:15] <m4n1sh> anything
[20:16] <Bachstelze> that's what get-orig-source is for
[20:17] <m4n1sh> hmm
[20:17] <Bachstelze> http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-source.html#s-debianrules
[20:17] <m4n1sh>  get-orig-source should point to upstream one?
[20:17] <Bachstelze> you should make it fetch thz zip, do the changes and repack it as .tar.Gz
[20:17] <m4n1sh> says
[20:18] <m4n1sh> This target fetches the most recent version of the original source package from a canonical archive site (via FTP or WWW, for example), does any necessary rearrangement to turn it into the original source tar file format described below, and leaves it in the current directory.
[20:18] <m4n1sh> actually writing a script to do this is tough
[20:18] <m4n1sh> it has to be done manually
[20:18] <m4n1sh> tested and then can be released
[20:18] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: if there is no LICENSE, you might have other problems to consider first.
[20:18] <m4n1sh> Ampelbein: the LICENSE is not shipped with the tarball
[20:19] <m4n1sh> but when downloading it shows properly
[20:19] <Bachstelze> it should be
[20:19] <m4n1sh> I am checking agai
[20:19] <m4n1sh> when I click Download it says "Do you agree to this license"
[20:19] <Bachstelze> doesn't matter
[20:20] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: the license must be included in the debian package
[20:20] <Bachstelze> the license must accompany the code
[20:20] <m4n1sh> I checked the upstream zip file
[20:21] <m4n1sh> it contains a readme.txt file
[20:21] <m4n1sh> upper part is readme
[20:21] <m4n1sh> below part contains license
[20:21] <m4n1sh> and the debian package has that license
[20:22] <Ampelbein> m4n1sh: good. be sure to mention that in debian/copyright
[20:22] <m4n1sh> checked again
[20:22] <m4n1sh> I have updated it
[23:28] <micahg> gilir: you know xulrunner-1.9.2 is going away in natty, right?
[23:33] <gilir> micahg, there are still some packages depending on it, you plan to do the migration so late in the cycle ?
[23:33] <micahg> gilir: whatever is left at teh end of the cycle, we're going to drop
[23:34] <micahg> we can't support multiple xulrunners
[23:35] <micahg> gilir: is gecko-mediaplayer an npapi plugin?
[23:35] <gilir> so why not removing it right now ? it's still in the archive
[23:35] <micahg> gilir: to give people a chance to port and still have the app useable :)
[23:36] <micahg> but I'll bring up dropping it for beta
[23:37] <gilir> micahg, I don't know, it installs a .so in the same place than flash and java
[23:37] <micahg> gilir: is upstream not active?
[23:38] <gilir> micahg, it is, only the ususal ubuntu/debian maintainer is not
[23:39] <micahg> gilir: is it just a matter of packaging the new upstream?
[23:40] <kklimonda1> micahg: why the hell are upstream devs depending on mozjs if it doesn't provide a stable API?
[23:40] <kklimonda1> micahg: is it the same with v8?
[23:40] <gilir> micahg, no, according to upstream, it's already compatible with 2.0
[23:40] <micahg> kklimonda1: idk about v8, but mozjs should be stable soon
[23:40] <micahg> gilir: ok, I'll try to have a look this week
[23:41] <kklimonda1> micahg: stable as in they will provide stable API for years?
[23:41] <RAOF> micahg: Oh, really?  Mozilla will commit to an ABI in the near future?  Sweet.
[23:41] <micahg> kklimonda1: which upstream are you frustrated with now
[23:41] <kklimonda1> micahg: mongodb ;)
[23:41] <micahg> RAOF: they're thinking about trying at least :)
[23:41] <kklimonda1> sweet
[23:41] <micahg> kklimonda1: yep, are you trying to port to xul-2.0?
[23:42] <kklimonda1> micahg: I know nothing of xul 2.0 API changes, nor about mongodb internals. I may take a look at it this week, but I wouldn't hold my breath :)
[23:50] <gilir> micahg, thanks :)


[08:13] <RAOF> Today:
[08:13] <RAOF> * Finally got the screen copy tests building again
[08:13] <RAOF>   * (turns out I had a couple of half-broken mocks)
[08:13] <RAOF> * Still need to finish working out precisely why the copy tests don't seem to use the right objects
[17:35] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/d16c1b228b0e91966f23621bca2273e71af4d2bf>)
[21:32] <mattkae[m]> My update 🌞
[21:32] <mattkae[m]> - Responded to Alan's comments on https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2975
[21:32] <mattkae[m]> - Implemented the rest of https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2148 so that we're using the ActiveOutputListener
[21:32] <mattkae[m]> - Began writing some unit tests for the new SystemCompositorWindowManager