[00:00]  * cjwatson looks at the whole of r13734
[00:01] <cjwatson> In that revision, it had one caller, which was always copying from series.previous_series to series
[00:01] <cjwatson> I'm right in my presumption that series.previous_series is always in the same distribution, aren't I?
[00:01] <wgrant> Right
[00:01] <wgrant> Yes
[00:01] <lifeless> well
[00:01] <lifeless> we hope so
[00:02] <cjwatson> I did check it was true for Ubuntu
[00:02] <wgrant> The code ensures it's always true
[00:02] <wgrant> The DB does not
[00:02] <cjwatson> So I think this was essentially an attempt at generalising to derived distributions
[00:02] <cjwatson> But that actually what we have now in PackageCopier does a better job
[00:02] <cjwatson> And the publisher code doesn't care
[00:03] <wgrant> Yep
[00:03] <wgrant> r=me
[00:03] <wgrant> We really need to merge the uploader and copier eventually...
[00:03] <cjwatson> Yeah, it's a pretty ugly separation
[00:04] <cjwatson> They're kind of converging by iterative generalisation
[00:04] <wgrant> And it's only getting uglier
[00:04] <wgrant> Yeah
[00:04] <cjwatson> But stuff like that duplicated policy code is really hard to fix in the current layout
[00:04] <wgrant> And there are subtle differences.
[00:05] <wgrant> Largely unavoidable in the current layout, as you say
[00:05] <cjwatson> Different ancestry calculation between them
[00:05] <cjwatson> And within the uploader, come to that, but that's a different matter
[00:05] <wgrant> Yes...
[00:06] <cjwatson> cf. my comment in check_copy_permissions :-)
[00:06] <wgrant> really we want to rework PackageUpload+PackageCopyJob to work with just a "bunch of packages"
[00:06] <wgrant> Then copies and uploads can use the same infrastructure, just from different sources
[00:06] <wgrant> That would also probably necessitate making custom uploads not horrible
[00:06] <wgrant> Or at least less horrible
[00:07] <cjwatson> They could do with having something that resembles a database representation
[00:07] <wgrant> Myes.
[00:07] <cjwatson> Rather than just being bolted onto the side of PackageUpload and forgotten about
[00:07] <lifeless> cjwatson: long tradition of that :)
[00:08] <lifeless> cjwatson: when schema changes were impracticle
[00:08] <cjwatson> Mm
[00:08] <cjwatson> At least we don't have sourceless custom uploads any more :)
[00:08] <wgrant> Indeed
[00:11] <cjwatson> Right, thanks, I've sent that off to EC2.  I'll QA in the morning if it's got that far
[00:11] <wgrant> " 1 → 75 of 296 results "
[00:11] <wgrant> !
[00:11] <wgrant> cjwatson: Great
[00:37] <StevenK> wgrant: Criticals?
[00:38] <wgrant> StevenK: Yeah
[00:38] <wgrant> In launchpad, though, not launchpad-project.
[00:38] <StevenK> Yeah
[00:39] <StevenK> wgrant: Right, I can see the 35 BMPs
[00:40] <StevenK> Well, my query doesn't return the BMP ids, it returns the duplicated merge_diffs, but the 35 is the important bit.
[00:40] <wgrant> Is it actually 35?
[00:40] <wgrant> Right
[00:40] <StevenK> SELECT merge_diff FROM branchmergeproposal WHERE merge_diff IS NOT NULL GROUP BY merge_diff HAVING COUNT(*) > 1;
[00:40] <wgrant> Right, exactly.
[00:40] <StevenK> Incredibly simple
[00:41] <StevenK> wgrant: So I'm not sure what we should do, though
[00:41] <wgrant> StevenK: Delete 35 MP diffs :)
[00:42] <StevenK> wgrant: How will that help? There are two BMPs with the same merge_diff
[00:42] <wgrant> Um, yeah, maybe I'm misremembering
[00:42] <wgrant> Do we have a bug about this?
[00:42] <StevenK> I do not think so
[00:42] <StevenK> But I haven't gone diffing
[00:43] <StevenK> Er, nice slip. digging
[00:44] <wgrant> Ah
[00:44] <wgrant> So I guess we want to duplicate the previewdiffs
[00:45] <StevenK> How do we do that in 2.5 seconds? :-)
[00:47] <wgrant> There's only 35 records...
[00:48] <StevenK> wgrant: Sure, but I'm not sure how to pull out only one BMP, duplicate its previewdiff and then set it back.
[00:50] <wgrant> StevenK: We'd probably want to duplicate the LibraryFileAlias, Diff, and PreviewDiff, then set BranchMergeProposal.merge_diff
[00:51] <StevenK> LFA is involved?
[00:52] <StevenK> wgrant: I can't see how LFA is involved
[00:52] <wgrant> StevenK: diff.diff_text is an LFA
[00:52] <StevenK> Ah
[00:52] <wgrant> No two previewdiffs reference one diff, and no two diffs reference one LFA
[00:55] <StevenK> wgrant: I'm just not sure how to duplicate rows, making sure that FKs are sane and then setting BMP.merge_diff
[00:56] <cjwatson> Isn't bug 497772 released now?  That was apparently in launchpad-buildd 112, and top-of-changelog is 114
[00:56] <_mup_> Bug #497772: exceptions.AttributeError: 'DebianBuildManager' object has no attribute '_subprocess' <oops> <launchpad-buildd:Fix Committed by jelmer> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/497772 >
[00:56] <wgrant> StevenK: I'd probably write a query to find a temp table of the newer BMP of each of the 35 pairs, then execute a PL/pgSQL function to duplicate the three rows and switch the FK
[00:57] <StevenK> cjwatson: Ah, but what launchpad-buildd is deployed on the builders ...
[00:57] <wgrant> 114
[00:57] <wgrant> So yeah, that can be closed
[00:57] <cjwatson> launchpad-buildd | 113~0.IS.08.04 | hardy-cat-buildd | source, all
[00:57] <cjwatson> launchpad-buildd | 113~0.IS.08.04 | lucid-cat-buildd | source, all
[00:57] <cjwatson> But either way ...
[00:57] <wgrant> Buildd toolchain package versions: launchpad-buildd_114-0~53~0.IS.08.04 python-lpbuildd_114-0~53~0.IS.08.04 bzr_2.5.1-0ubuntu2.
[00:57] <cjwatson> Ah, good
[00:57] <wgrant> Mysterious
[00:58] <cjwatson> launchpad-buildd | 114-0~53~0.IS.08.04 | hardy-cat-proposed | source, all
[00:58] <wgrant> Ah
[00:58] <wgrant> Where did you get a cat madison?
[00:58] <cjwatson> chinstrap:~cjwatson/madison-lite-cat/
[00:58] <cjwatson> madison-lite --config=config there
[00:58] <wgrant> Ahh, thanks
[00:59] <cjwatson> And I run ./make-local-mirror occasionally to refresh the local Packages/Sources
[00:59] <cjwatson> Actually in fact that's cronned houry
[00:59] <cjwatson> *hourly
[01:00] <cjwatson> It is a foul hack but it works
[01:03] <cjwatson> Is there any way to get the OOPSen in bug 809937?  Neither lp-oops.c.c nor oops.c.c seems to have them any more
[01:03] <_mup_> Bug #809937: Timeout accepting packages  <queue-page> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/809937 >
[01:04] <cjwatson> I suspect that's a dup of bug 745799, but it would be nice to be able to check
[01:04] <_mup_> Bug #745799: DistroSeries:+queue Timeout accepting packages (bug structural subscriptions) <qa-ok> <timeout> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by cjwatson> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/745799 >
[01:04] <wgrant> It's probably a dupe
[01:05] <wgrant> We'll know for sure when the +queue POST oopses never appear again :)
[01:05] <StevenK> wgrant: So my plan based on your plan is a function that we call once per previewdiff, I'm clear on how to duplicate the data using INSERT INTO, but how do get back the id so I can keep FKs sane?
[01:05] <wgrant> But it may be worth duping that
[01:07] <wgrant> StevenK: INSERT INTO foo (bar, baz) VALUES (what, ever) RETURNING id INTO some_var;
[01:07] <wgrant> RETURNING is normal PostgreSQL; it's how we get the IDs back in Storm
[01:07] <wgrant> INTO is PL/pgSQL
[01:20] <StevenK> wgrant: UPDATE branchmergeproposal SET ... WHERE merge_diff = pd_id LIMIT 1;  doesn't make sense, right?
[01:33] <wgrant> StevenK: Indeed not
[01:33] <wgrant> StevenK: The function will presumably be called with a BMP ID
[01:35] <StevenK> wgrant: I've written it for a previewdiff id
[01:35] <StevenK> It even works
[01:35] <StevenK> Let me pastebin it up so you can insult me.
[01:35] <StevenK> :-P
[01:35] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1225731/
[01:36] <wgrant> StevenK: Right, easy solution is to use the MP ID instead
[01:36] <wgrant> Then grab the merge_diff from that
[01:37] <StevenK> wgrant: It works this way? :-)
[01:37] <wgrant> Oh, I see you do the SELECT first, right
[01:38] <wgrant> Is that quick enough on DF?
[01:38] <wgrant> If not, just move the SELECT merge_diff bit to before the statement timeout
[01:38] <StevenK> So I've tested one run, I'm just about to try it with -f and a ROLLBACK
[01:38] <wgrant> Right
[01:39] <StevenK> Hah, my end SELECT line is wrong
[01:41] <StevenK> wgrant: It times out. :-(
[01:41] <wgrant> Right, so swap lines 6 and 8
[01:42] <StevenK> wgrant: It times out at INSERT INTO libraryfilealias
[01:42] <StevenK> It already printed SELECT 35
[01:43] <wgrant> Have you explained the INSERT INTO?
[01:43] <StevenK> wgrant: Just about to.
[01:45] <StevenK> wgrant: 3ms
[01:45] <wgrant> Perhaps just a cold cache? Run again?
[01:46] <StevenK> Oooh
[01:47] <StevenK> It prints duplicate_preview_diff, 35 blank rows and then (35 rows), can make it uh, not do that?
[01:47] <StevenK> Into a pager, which results having to hit q
[01:49] <StevenK> wgrant: ^
[01:50] <wgrant> Not sure
[01:50] <wgrant> But it's because the function is returning null
[01:50] <StevenK> wgrant: Actually, I think the SELECT duplicate_preview_diff(merge_diff) ... is doing it
[01:51] <wgrant> Exactly.
[01:52] <wgrant> You asked it to return the result of that function
[01:52] <wgrant> Which is NULL
[01:52] <wgrant> for each row
[01:52] <StevenK> Ah
[01:52] <wgrant> so 35 times
[01:52] <StevenK> But it's declared as RETURNS void ?
[01:52] <wgrant> Which means it returns null
[01:52] <lifeless> out for a short while
[01:52] <wgrant> It just can't return anything itself; it always evaluates to null
[01:53] <StevenK> wgrant: So what do I instead?
[01:53] <wgrant> StevenK: Ignore it, probably
[01:54] <wgrant> I'm sure ops can press q
[01:55] <StevenK> lifeless: I'd like to chat about some SQL I'd like to run on prod when you're back.
[02:01]  * bigjools owes wallyworld_ alcohol for adding the commit msg to MP emails
[02:01] <bigjools> or caffeine, pick your drug of choice
[02:01]  * wallyworld_ likes Southern Comfort
[02:02] <wallyworld_> i assume it worked to your satisfaction then
[02:02] <StevenK> Is that a euphemism for wgrant?
[02:02] <wallyworld_> oooooh
[02:02] <bigjools> haha
[02:21] <wgrant> StevenK: https://oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-4845cff98595cfa456992a710aaff661 is a bit odd
[02:21] <wgrant> I suspect it's a regression from your stuff
[02:22] <StevenK> Blink
[02:22] <StevenK> Oh, we switched to SRF
[02:22] <wgrant> Ah
[02:22] <wgrant> Yeah
[02:23] <wgrant> And when given a name, I bet it uses BPBSet instead of BFJSet
[02:23] <wgrant> And the former is probably SQLObject
[02:23] <wgrant> Yeah
[03:03] <lifeless> StevenK: hi
[03:12] <StevenK> lifeless: O HAI. The SQL in question is https://pastebin.canonical.com/75216/
[03:13] <lifeless> sudo execute me some sql ?
[03:13] <StevenK> lifeless: The background is that when wgrant and I were migrating staticdiff to previewdiff we didn't check for and discard duplicates, so now we have 35 previewdiffs that are referenced by more than one branchmergeproposal
[03:14] <lifeless> StevenK: I see
[03:14] <lifeless> StevenK: you have  afunction in there; how have you validated it ?
[03:14] <StevenK> lifeless: I ran it on DF
[03:15] <lifeless> StevenK: so if it did the wrong thing, we have no idea ? :)
[03:15] <lifeless> let me give it some eyeballing
[03:17] <lifeless> ok, I **think** it will be ok
[03:18] <StevenK> Right, it is just duplicating the data and then picking one of the BMPs as a victim
[03:19] <StevenK> And we have 2 previewdiffs that are lucky and linked from 3 BMPs
[03:19] <StevenK> So we'll have to run it twice
[03:23] <StevenK> lifeless: If you'd prefer, I'm happy to perform some validation on DF after lunch?
[03:24] <lifeless> that would give me some comfort yes
[03:24] <lifeless> its just a little too large to visually confirm
[03:25] <bigjools> we need a "pebkac" bug status
[03:25] <lifeless> StevenK: like, check it really only updates one of them, not both sides
[03:52] <stub> lifeless: it does, because the final update will fail because the id column is unique and it matches with the = operator.
[03:57] <StevenK> lifeless: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1225881/
[04:04] <stub> StevenK: Want me to run it?
[04:05] <StevenK> stub: I was happy enough to go through webops, but please do.
[04:05] <StevenK> stub: You'll need to run it twice -- two lucky previewdiffs are linked to 3 BMPs
[04:07] <stub> StevenK: Done. 35 rows fixed, then 2 in the second run
[04:08] <StevenK> stub: Fantastic, thanks.
[04:24] <wgrant> StevenK, stub: Thanks
[04:24] <wgrant> The broken MPs are no longer broken.
[04:24] <StevenK> It should makes the OOPS report a bit happier too
[04:25] <wgrant> StevenK: Were you going to look at the Builder:+history regression, or should I fix it?
[04:25] <StevenK> wgrant: Can you remind me of that Builder:+history regression and your thoughts on it?
[04:26] <wgrant> StevenK: The OOPS I pointed out this morning. If you look at Builder.getBuildRecords, you'll see it uses a different method if a name filter is specified.
[04:26] <wgrant> BinaryPackageBuildSet.getBuildsForBuilder returns an SQLObjectResultSet, which SRF chokes on
[04:27] <wgrant> So we just need to Stormify BinaryPackageBuildSet.getBuildsForBuilder
[04:27] <wgrant> Probably about 5 minutes of work :)
[04:27] <wgrant> Plus DEATH TO SQLOBJCT
[04:27] <wgrant> +E
[04:28] <StevenK> wgrant: No point for a test, just make it Stormier?
[04:28] <wgrant> I think so.
[04:28] <StevenK> wgrant: Did you see buildbot is still full of hate and not love?
[04:28] <wgrant> Although a test could be done in about 4 lines.
[04:28] <wgrant> StevenK: A second spurious rabbitmq failure? Yeah
[04:28] <wgrant> A bit odd
[04:28] <wgrant> But we'll see if it happens again
[04:33] <StevenK> wgrant: It's a bit more than 5 minutes.
[04:33] <StevenK> BinaryPackageBuildSet.handleOptionalParamsForBuildQueries() is disgusting
[04:34] <wgrant> Oh, I missed that call
[04:35] <wgrant> But it's not that bad
[04:35] <wgrant> The only issue is that you probably have to port the rest as well
[04:35] <StevenK> Yes
[04:35] <wgrant> That's only two other methods, luckily
[04:40] <StevenK> Didn't we write a Storm archive privacy method?
[04:40]  * StevenK tries to remember
[04:43] <lifeless> wgrant: a little more context when downgrading importance would be lovely
[04:44] <lifeless> wgrant: it would avoid questions like 'why isn't it critical', which I might otherwise ask
[04:45] <wgrant> lifeless: The only questionable things I've downgraded are the crashes in ec2 demo
[04:45] <wgrant> AFAICR
[04:45] <lifeless> yah
[04:45] <lifeless> just a -little- context, is all I'm asking for
[04:46] <wgrant> I decided that nobody cares about ec2 demo apart from jml, and it's never been reliable, so it's probably not worth a critical
[04:47] <wgrant> Or two
[04:47] <lifeless> sure
[04:47] <lifeless> but all folk like me see
[04:47] <lifeless> is 'critical->high'
[04:47] <lifeless> with no more info at all
[04:47] <wgrant> True
[04:47] <lifeless> not even the fact its ec2 demo vs ec2 land
[04:48] <lifeless> so just saying 'ec2 demo is a best effort subproject - not treating as critical' would be more than enough
[04:48] <wgrant> [Bug 993300] Re: Error in apache config during ec2 demo
[04:48] <_mup_> Bug #993300: Error in apache config during ec2 demo <ec2> <Launchpad Developer Utilities:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/993300 >
[04:48] <wgrant> It says "demo"
[04:48] <wgrant> but k
[05:34] <StevenK> wgrant: Holy crap, I think I win
[05:38] <wgrant> StevenK: What have you broken?
[05:38] <StevenK> wgrant: 3 files changed, 74 insertions(+), 91 deletions(-)
[05:38] <StevenK> It almost works
[05:39] <wgrant> :( +74
[05:39] <lifeless> -91
[05:40] <wgrant> Sure
[05:40] <wgrant> But normally if I frown at him he gets it even more negative
[05:41] <StevenK> It only works sometimes.
[05:41]  * StevenK tries to work out where builder fits in
[06:10] <StevenK> wgrant: https://code.launchpad.net/~stevenk/launchpad/stormier-getbuildsforbuilder/+merge/126159
[06:12] <wgrant> StevenK: Looking
[06:46] <StevenK> wgrant: So, I was happy to move that into get_archive_privacy_filter, but BFJ's usage of it wants Or(PackageBuild.id == None, <archive privacy stuff>)
[06:47] <wgrant> StevenK: Does it want it?
[06:47] <wgrant> or is it a bug?
[06:48] <StevenK> I don't think it is
[06:49] <wgrant> Why does BFJ's usage of it want that?
[06:49] <wgrant> Oh, I misread
[06:49] <wgrant> Surely BFJ also wants the admin/anon special cases?
[06:49] <StevenK> It has it!
[06:51] <wgrant> StevenK: And how does it differ?
[06:51] <StevenK> clauses.append(Or(PackageBuild.id == None, Not(Archive._private)))
[06:51] <StevenK> That's the user is None case for BFJ
[06:51] <StevenK> clauses.append(Not(Archive._private))
[06:52] <StevenK> And the one I added in the branch
[06:52] <wgrant> OK, I'm confused
[06:52] <wgrant> "I was happy to move that into get_archive_privacy_filter"
[06:52] <wgrant> What is "that"?
[06:52] <StevenK> I could hack around it by doing if clause: return Or(clause, filter) else return filter
[07:03] <wgrant> StevenK: BuildFarmJobSet.getBuildsForBuilder does the same thing, except in the admin case
[07:03] <wgrant> And get_archive_privacy_filter should return True for an admin
[07:04] <wgrant> So the admin case will be Or(PackageBuild.id == None, True)
[07:04] <wgrant> Which should perform fine
[07:09] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226047/
[07:09] <StevenK> It doesn't fix the LIKE bit yet
[07:09] <StevenK> Or my indentation sins
[07:11] <StevenK> wgrant: origin = [PackageBuild] is because it's always used whereas the old code pulled it in later
[07:11] <wgrant> k
[07:12] <StevenK> Hmm, why is where wrapped in brackets with no comma or line wrap
[07:12] <wgrant> StevenK: I'm not sure it's worth having that clause arg
[07:13] <StevenK> wgrant: You'd rather toss Or(PackageBuild.id == None, ...) into BinaryPackageBuild's callsite too?
[07:13] <StevenK> Even though it wasn't there before
[07:13] <wgrant> StevenK: SOmetimes people (eg. me, sometimes) wrap 'where=Foo.bar == baz' in parens
[07:13] <wgrant> To make it less ambiguous
[07:13] <StevenK> Fair enough
[07:13] <wgrant> 'cause it really looks like the = should bind tighter there
[07:13] <wgrant> But it doesn't
[07:13] <StevenK> Trying to work how you'd prefer the filter = [ block to be indented
[07:14] <wgrant> Which?
[07:14] <wgrant> In get_archive_privacy_filter?
[07:14] <StevenK> Yeah
[07:14] <wgrant> The second element of the list is indented further than the first
[07:15] <StevenK> Oh, duh
[07:15] <wgrant> Which doesn't make much sense
[07:15] <wgrant> Yeah
[07:15] <wgrant> StevenK: So, back to PackageBuild.id == None: no, I would include PackageBuild.id == None in BFJS as we do today
[07:15] <StevenK> wgrant: So, PackageBuild.id == None into BinaryPackageBuild's callsite?
[07:16] <wgrant> So it becomes Or(PackageBuild.id == None, get_archive_privacy_filter(user))
[07:16] <StevenK> *get_archive_pri ...
[07:16] <StevenK> :-)
[07:16] <wgrant> Not if it returns an Or, no
[07:16] <StevenK> It wasn't
[07:16] <wgrant> It wasn't, no
[07:16] <wgrant> But it should
[07:16] <StevenK> Or() doesn't make sense for the BPB case
[07:17] <wgrant> It should return Not(Archive._private), or True, or Or(Not(Archive._private), Archive.ownerID.blah)
[07:17] <wgrant> I think
[07:17] <wgrant> Why not?
[07:17] <StevenK> Oh, hmm
[07:18] <StevenK> wgrant: Wait, what about Or(PackageBuild.id == None, Or(...)) ?
[07:18] <wgrant> What about that?
[07:18] <wgrant> It's arguably slightly ugly, but meh?
[07:18] <StevenK> Sorry, is having the or's nested a bad thing?
[07:19] <wgrant> Only if you consider nested ORs to be a bad thing.
[07:19] <wgrant> And I don't see why you would
[07:21] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226063/
[07:26] <wgrant> StevenK: Looks reasonable. There's no other admin/anon specialcases in the callsites that you can eliminate?
[07:27] <StevenK> Not that I can see.
[07:27] <wgrant> :(
[07:27] <StevenK> However, I'm going to actually stop work and do the LIKE stuff tomorrow
[07:27] <wgrant> :)
[07:27] <StevenK> So I'll have a dig to see if that function can be grafted into other sections of the code.
[07:28] <StevenK> And it will be glorious, etc, etc
[07:33] <adeuring> good morning
[07:45] <lifeless> right now, what was I doing this morning? Thats right, I was doing a plugin for bzr
[07:45]  * lifeless writes some code
[07:47] <StevenK> lifeless: The morning may have gotten away from you.
[07:47] <lifeless> rather
[08:10] <czajkowski> wallyworld: I see you're working on the text for the commercial email, I have an action item to add some text to that could you point me in the right direction please?
[08:11] <wallyworld> czajkowski: sure. the change has landed already and is awaiting deployment. the file i edited is product-commercial-subscription-expired-open-source.txt in email templates
[08:12] <wallyworld> is this the one you want?
[08:12] <wallyworld> czajkowski: there's a few other templates in the same directory as well
[08:12] <czajkowski> wallyworld: not done this before, basically looking for the mail that is sent to a person after they purchase a subscription so I can add the launchpadstatus feed links on identi.ca/twitter and our blog url
[08:13] <wallyworld> for other commercial emails of various sorts
[08:13] <czajkowski> nods
[08:13] <wallyworld> czajkowski: ok, let me find the template
[08:17] <wallyworld> czajkowski: product-license-other-proprietary.txt is sent when a project is first created with a proprietary licence and gets an initial 30 day subscription, but just right now, i can't find what is sent when a subscription voucher is redeemed
[08:18] <wallyworld> czajkowski: if you overlap with sinzui, he will likely be able to tell you immediately where to look. if if you have a bit of text from an email, i can search for it
[08:21] <czajkowski> wallyworld: I dont but will do in a bit thanks for the help, also see pm for other bit
[09:11] <lifeless> wow
[09:11] <lifeless> I can't get used to this fast buildbot ;)
[09:12] <czajkowski> heh
[09:12] <mgz> I'd say you've been working on launchpad for too long, BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE ;_;
[09:13] <mgz> moving back to a bzr-pqm style landing would be nice, rather than the current complications
[09:16] <StevenK> mgz: Purple has been talking about it
[09:16] <mgz> I trust purple.
[09:16] <StevenK> Means ec2 can just go and die too
[09:16] <lifeless> J
[09:16] <lifeless> E
[09:16] <lifeless> N
[09:16] <lifeless> J
[09:16] <lifeless> I
[09:16] <lifeless> N
[09:16] <lifeless> S
[09:16] <lifeless> *FFFAAARRRXXXXX* at the typo.
[09:16] <mgz> ehehehe
[09:16] <czajkowski> LOL
[09:16] <StevenK> lifeless: Sounds good. Get me hardware and I'll break my back to set it up?
[09:17] <lifeless> StevenK: we have the hardware now; prae as master and commander, huey and dewie as slaves
[09:18] <StevenK> lifeless: I have a plan in the next few days to look at configuring and ec2 instance with LXC as an ssh slave and make sure Jenkins can drive it
[09:21] <wgrant> yeah
[09:21] <wgrant> We discussed on the call this morning about setting up Jenkins to do pre-merge testing using the existing slave setup
[09:28] <nigelb> the server names are getting quite hilarious :P
[09:28] <StevenK> nigelb: huey and dewie are not the real names
[09:29] <StevenK> And prae is praseodymium
[09:29] <nigelb> Oh boy
[09:29] <nigelb> I hope the names don't match up to some sort of internal DNS. That's a hard to type name ;)
[09:29] <mgz> we have codenames for codenames around here,
[09:30] <lifeless> nigelb: they do.
[09:30] <nigelb> lifeless: oh dear
[09:31] <StevenK> Awww, leningradskaya no longer resolves
[09:31] <StevenK> (yes, real server name)
[09:31] <lifeless> nigelb: we just call it praë
[09:31] <nigelb> StevenK: *snicker*
[09:32] <StevenK> nigelb: So there's this thing, called tab complete?
[09:32] <nigelb> Hah.
[09:33] <StevenK> ssh running under zsh will tab complete from known_hosts and .ssh/config
[09:33] <lifeless> there is a helper
[09:33] <nigelb> true true. I use it all the time.
[09:33] <lifeless> that knows about all hosts
[09:33] <lifeless> for Canonical
[09:33] <nigelb> Oooh.
[09:33] <lifeless> (internal only)
[09:34] <lifeless> I don't know if the engine code for it is open - haven't checked. I don't think its super deep though, you can probably invent the same for whereever you are quite easily.
[09:34] <lifeless> bzr tree, metadata populated by sysadmins, pull and run make.
[09:35] <nigelb> ah interesting.
[09:35] <nigelb> I've not yet worked with organizations that's gotten into > 30 servers.
[09:35] <StevenK> Ahh, well ....
[09:35] <StevenK> :-)
[09:36] <nigelb> YEah, small time :P
[09:38] <cjwatson> FWIW, in grumpy mode: I find the business of slang names for servers makes things very difficult to follow; there are times when it's taken me months to realise that what I thought were two different servers people were talking about was actually just one.  Much as I object to the pervasive coining of new initialisms in Ubuntu-land which also confuse newcomers, so it's probably a lost cause ...
[09:44] <wgrant> huey and dewie are sluagh and radande :)
[09:44] <wgrant> And prasé is praseodymium
[10:56] <rick_h_> morning
[11:07] <wgrant> 3
[11:08] <rick_h_> 2
[11:08] <rick_h_> 1
[11:08]  * rick_h_ wonders what happens now
[11:08] <czajkowski> breakage
[11:25] <lifeless> wgrant: lp:~lifeless/+junk/bzr-mkghosts
[11:25] <lifeless> wgrant: You should be able to figure it out from that
[12:21] <sinzui> czajkowski, Lp does not send out email to people who purchase subscriptions. Lp is not the store or salesforce. Lp send emails when the user selects a special licence, or the commercial subscription expires
[12:54] <czajkowski> sinzui: right but I'm looking to add launchpadstatus and blog.launchpad.net urls to *some* mail
[12:54] <czajkowski> which would you suggest
[12:56] <sinzui> czajkowski, I am not sure. Lp doesn't send out emails to people who register projects or teams or join Lp, which happens to be the only cases I think users would want to be reminded up status information
[12:57] <czajkowski> sinzui: the logic behind this was I talked to mrevell about how our commercial owners may not know about lpstatus such as build issues or downtime, and we should possibly link them in one of the mails
[12:57] <czajkowski> so they can reference them
[12:58] <sinzui> well
[12:58] <sinzui> we do not have such an email for customers
[12:58] <czajkowski> hmm ok
[12:59] <sinzui> I suggest the warning email we send to users who select the three odd licenses. The email explains Lp's policies about open source projects
[12:59] <czajkowski> ok thanks
[13:01] <sinzui> czajkowski, lib/lp/registry/emailtemplates/product-license-other-proprietary.txt is sent to the user who chooses Other/Proprietary from the licenses
[13:02] <sinzui> czajkowski, this is the text: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226560/
[13:28] <deryck> abentley, adeuring, rick_h_ -- don't forget to tag any cards review that we should look at today.
[13:43] <czajkowski> deryck: just the person, on the last call we had I said i could do some testing re bp, can you point me in the right direction if it;s ready
[14:14] <deryck> czajkowski, hey, sorry, was on call.....
[14:14] <deryck> czajkowski, so I think the idea would be that you play with privacy on blueprints and see if it works like you expect or if you have questions about it....
[14:15] <deryck> czajkowski, I assume matsubara will do more exploratory testing, actually trying to get it to break.
[14:15] <czajkowski> nods ok
[14:15] <deryck> czajkowski, thanks!
[14:46] <adeuring> frankban_, rick_h_: could one of you please review this MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/revokeAccessGrants_specs/+merge/126261 ?
[14:46] <rick_h_> adeuring: will do
[14:46] <adeuring> rick_h_ thanks!
[14:53] <rick_h_> adeuring: r=me with one typo in comment
[14:53] <adeuring> rick_h_thanks!
[15:01] <sinzui> jcsackett, do you have time to lp-land https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/rip-out-portlet
[15:02] <rick_h_> czajkowski: how about http://ubuntuone.com/4TlJf9tXAV2NDiJvi2i91v as an image or too technical and I should see if we can use the YUI logo or something
[15:02] <czajkowski> cool
[15:02] <czajkowski> rick_h_: thanks
[15:03] <rick_h_> czajkowski: so will get feedback from deryck and I'll get with you to put something together to the world.
[15:03] <rick_h_> thanks for the help/advice!
[15:03] <czajkowski> perfect
[15:03] <czajkowski> just an image helps when we share it on places
[15:03] <czajkowski> default will pull in the lp image
[15:04] <rick_h_> k
[15:06] <deryck> rick_h_, so generally, I like the post very much.  I'm not crazy about the double use of the word modern or modernize....
[15:06] <deryck> rick_h_, I would describe what we had before as ancient. :)  I think it's more like "bleeding edge" now or "easier to keep pace with YUI updates" or something like that.
[15:06] <deryck> wouldn't describe, I meant
[15:07] <rick_h_> deryck: sure
[15:07] <rick_h_> deryck: how about just 'update'
[15:08] <deryck> rick_h_, yeah, that works.
[15:08] <deryck> it was just crusty technically what we had before, but it wasn't not-modern, IMO.
[15:09] <rick_h_> yea, I was just thinking of things like the Y.App more 'modern front end' kind of stuff.
[15:09] <rick_h_> but that's why I get you all to sanity check me :)
[15:09] <rick_h_> http://paste.mitechie.com/show/La3GvwYPeAqqtNralwCs/ tweaked and 'updated' and 'new'
[15:09] <deryck> yeah, I followed what you meant.
[15:09] <deryck> looking now....
[15:11] <deryck> rick_h_, much better.  a final language nit-pick... combo'd could be expanded to comboed, or else rewritten as "combo-loaded"
[15:12] <rick_h_> deryck: yea, thanks much better as combo loaded
[15:21] <rick_h_> czajkowski: ok, so updated text, added some links, and make the paragraphs one line to be more WP friendly http://paste.mitechie.com/show/1nO5FCkCr2lT0viQfJx4/
[15:21] <rick_h_> czajkowski: let me know if there's anything else you need on your end and thanks!
[15:22] <czajkowski> rick_h_: do you want me to add it t the blog ?
[15:22] <rick_h_> czajkowski: yes please
[15:22] <rick_h_> czajkowski: or do I have access? I guess I didn't look if I had access to the blog
[15:24] <czajkowski> stabs 2FA!!!
[15:25] <rick_h_> czajkowski: yea sorry I can log in but don't seem to have any access. If you could post it would appreciate it
[15:25] <czajkowski> I want to find the person who's bright idea was t have it on all the time and make sure they dont ever get beer!
[15:25] <czajkowski> rick_h_: so if you sign in and create a user I can then make you and admin
[15:25] <czajkowski> all LP devs should be able to write posts
[15:25] <rick_h_> czajkowski: ok, I did create a user account
[15:25] <rick_h_> if you can add me I'll post it and not bug you :)
[15:26] <czajkowski> 2 ticks
[15:26] <czajkowski> I need to find you first
[15:26] <rick_h_> rharding? Richard Harding, something like that I'd imagine
[15:26] <czajkowski> ahh I was looking under rick_h_
[15:27] <czajkowski> you're admin now
[15:27] <rick_h_> ty
[15:27] <czajkowski> np :)
[15:54] <jcsackett> sinzui: i was fixing an issue with my colo-repo; looks like you landed it for me?
[15:55] <sinzui> yes
[15:56] <jcsackett> sinzui: ok.
[16:00] <sinzui> jcsackett, I suck. There are two failures that look real, but ec2 test did not see them.
[16:01] <sinzui> jcsackett, I will fix them since I landed it
[16:02] <jcsackett> sinzui: you got caught by something i had been working on -- i had noticed just a handful of references to the db_column and was cleaning them up, but apparently failed to mark the MP back to WIP.
[16:03] <sinzui> oh bugger, we exported that attr.
[16:03] <sinzui> I may need to put it back
[16:03] <czajkowski> sinzui: any idea why this person is rnning into this issue reporting a bug....https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/209537
[16:07] <sinzui> czajkowski, no idea since the oops is not there. I suggest runing `ubuntu-bug  initramfs-tools-bin`
[16:07] <sinzui> oh, maybe it is because you need registered gpp-keys to use bug mail
[16:08] <sinzui> czajkowski, we silently drop mail from unknown/unverified senders because it is a huge spam vector
[16:08] <czajkowski> sinzui: he's submitted bugs before so was confused
[16:09] <czajkowski> sually if you get a n oops when reporting the bug, it still gets reported
[16:13] <sinzui> jcsackett, date_next_suggest_packaging is a very obscure attr. I really doubt anyone knows it exists.
[16:14] <jcsackett> sinzui: it wasn't exported for a particular version of the API; does that default to beta or devel?
[16:14] <sinzui> jcsackett,  https://launchpad.net/+apidoc/1.0.html
[16:15] <sinzui> it is listed as 1.0
[16:15] <jcsackett> sinzui: which means we can't just remove it.
[16:15] <jcsackett> i have a branch that adds it back in.
[16:16] <sinzui> oh
[16:16] <sinzui> so I could just land the two test fixes, then you can add an empty attr to support the dead api
[16:16] <jcsackett> sinzui: empty attr?
[16:17] <sinzui> jcsackett, the attr can return None. We are going to remove the column from the db because Lp does not use it
[16:17] <jcsackett> sinzui: ah, so on the model make it an @property that just returns None.
[16:18] <deryck> abentley, adeuring, rick_h_ -- just a heads up, I'm going offline for lunch here shortly, to switch back to the house for the rest of the day.
[16:19] <rick_h_> deryck: rgr
[16:19] <sinzui> jcsackett, we may need a setter to that is silently ignored
[16:21] <jcsackett> sinzui: branch updated.
[16:21] <sinzui> oh, you have a fix? which branch?
[16:22] <jcsackett> sinzui: https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/fix-rip-out-portlet/+merge/126288
[16:23] <sinzui> well we want to ripput the tests that want dates too
[16:23]  * sinzui may have the patch for that.
[16:23] <jcsackett> sinzui: but this doesn't address test failures, just the atter.
[16:23] <jcsackett> right.
[16:25]  * sinzui running the tests
[16:27] <sinzui> jcsackett, I can land my branch now to fix the suite, or you can merge my patch and gamble lp-landing it.
[16:27] <jcsackett> sinzui: link?
[16:27] <jcsackett> let me merge it and run the two tests on my machine.
[16:28] <sinzui> jcsackett,  the description for the attr shoulr state it is obsolete
[16:28]  * deryck goes offline for lunch now
[16:28] <sinzui> jcsackett, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226941/
[16:28] <sinzui> jcsackett, your addition though restores the webservice test I changed
[16:29] <jcsackett> sinzui: bloody hell. ok, land yours to unbreak buildbot. i'll resolve the API attr issue separately.
[16:29] <jcsackett> this is getting too tangled.
[16:29] <sinzui> okay
[16:33] <sinzui> jcsackett, so I think think happened because you reused your branch for changes after I did the review
[16:34] <jcsackett> sinzui: you are correct; i meant to put the MP back into WIP when i noticed (what i thought) were just two more lines that needed removal.
[16:34] <sinzui> jcsackett, if you want to reuse a branch, you need to delete the review or change the status back to WIP
[16:34] <sinzui> yes, we agree
[16:36] <sinzui> jcsackett, I think the revised description should be "Obsolete. The date to resume Ubuntu package suggestions."
[16:36] <jcsackett> sinzui: sounds good.
[16:38] <sinzui> jcsackett, merge trunk and put back the webservice test change in http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1226941/
[16:39] <sinzui> I think everything will pass
[16:40] <czajkowski> rick_h_: nice your blog post is being reshared lots
[16:41] <rick_h_> czajkowski: yay!
[16:41] <rick_h_> now back to my coding hole for the rest of the year
[16:41] <czajkowski> rick_h_: tis ok 2013 is close by you can do another post then
[16:56] <jcsackett> sinzui: https://code.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/restore-date_next_suggest_packaging/+merge/126293
[17:00] <sinzui> jcsackett, r=me
[17:01] <jcsackett> sinzui: given the fun we just had, i'm ec2ing just to be sure. it is out now.
[17:26] <danilos> wallyworld, you've got mail (if it goes through, maybe you don't)
[18:55] <rick_h_> jcsackett: got a sec?
[18:55] <jcsackett> rick_h_: probably. what's up?
[18:55] <rick_h_> https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/info_type_events/+merge/126317
[18:55] <rick_h_> want to get eyeballs on my thoughts for the information type banner event setup
[18:55] <rick_h_> see #324 in that diff
[18:56] <rick_h_> and then #295 for using it in the privacy banner and let me know if that makes sense?
[18:57] <jcsackett> rick_h_: looks like we're showing on public and hiding on private...should be the reverse, right?
[18:57] <jcsackett> otherwise this looks sensible, though there is a missing step to make sure the banner updates with the correct text.
[18:58] <jcsackett> i suppose that could just be another thing listening for the change event.
[18:58] <rick_h_> jcsackett: the privacy banner doesn't have the text does it?
[18:58] <rick_h_> that's the beta one?
[18:58] <jcsackett> rick_h_: they both have text.
[18:59] <jcsackett> privacy banner says stuff like "this bug is proprietary" or "this bug is private security."
[18:59] <rick_h_> jcsackett: ah ok so the updateText is manually called
[18:59] <rick_h_> right so I need to find the locations of that and get that into this loop
[18:59] <jcsackett> rick_h_: and privacy banner is also used on +filebug and when a bug is first filed with messages that say the type is blah b/c blah.
[18:59] <rick_h_> no, right, I was only looking at the PrivacyBanner implementation and missed that. Cool thanks
[19:00] <jcsackett> rick_h_: you're welcome.
[19:00] <jcsackett> rick_h_: i really like the update to use events. wanted something like that done when we started with the information type transitions but the todo got lost in the shuffle.
[19:01] <rick_h_> jcsackett: right, so then the choicewidget will be setup to fire an information_type:change event with the new value
[19:01] <jcsackett> rick_h_: right, that's very cool.
[19:01] <rick_h_> and everyone else can listen for is_public/is_private to show/hide unless they need the value
[19:01] <jcsackett> much better than the callback madness.
[19:01] <rick_h_> then they can watch change itself I think
[20:52] <rick_h_> jcsackett: sinzui was "    ForbiddenAttribute: ('date_next_suggest_packaging', <Product at 0x1bb7ac50>)" related error stuff the things you guys fixed today?
[20:52] <rick_h_> my ec2 landing failed with some strange doctests and wondered if it's just a matter of pull trunk and resubmit again
[21:07] <sinzui> rick_h_, that was bad timing.
[21:07] <sinzui> rick_h_ I landed a test fix for it, jcsackett is landing a branch that puts it back for API 1.0
[21:22] <rick_h_> sinzui: ok, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for jcsackett's branch then and retry.
[21:23] <sinzui> rick_h_: you can land now. I landed the test fix and just qaed work from both our squads
[21:24] <rick_h_> sinzui: gotcha, landing away then. Thanks
[21:26] <sinzui> rick_h_, jcsackett's branch is in builbot now actually
[21:27] <rick_h_> sinzui: ok cool. Since it seems the only failures were there I sent it to buildbot and I'll see where it goes.
[21:27] <rick_h_> I'm getting good at lp-land hah
[22:38] <lifeless> flacoste: catchup tomorrow I guess ?
[22:45] <wgrant> yay, masterless webapp
[22:45] <wgrant> it mostly works!
[22:46] <lifeless> wgrant: oh, for downtimes?
[22:46] <wgrant> Yeah
[22:46] <lifeless> wgrant: did you see my link to the plugin ?
[22:46] <wgrant> lifeless: I did, yeah, thanks
[22:46] <wgrant> Looks pretty sensible
[22:46] <wgrant> push doesn't populate ghosts, does it?
[22:46] <wgrant> So we'll need to run it on the remote
[22:47] <lifeless> fetch-ghosts
[22:47] <lifeless> or use bzrlib's repository primitives directlry and do lprepo.fetch(localrepo)
[22:47] <lifeless> that will fetch the lot
[22:47] <wgrant> Right.
[22:48] <lifeless> I'd run it on the repo on praseodymium
[22:48] <lifeless> then use the bzrlib primitives
[22:48] <wgrant> Ah, fetch-ghosts doesn't have a -d
[22:48] <wgrant> Hm
[22:49] <lifeless> l = repository.Repository.open_containing('.')
[22:50] <lifeless> r = repoistory.Repository.open('bzr+ssh://...')
[22:50] <lifeless> r.fetch(l)
[22:50] <lifeless> ^D
[22:50] <wgrant> Yeah
[23:18] <StevenK> wgrant: I just read backscroll again and you don't mention the file to peer at for LIKE gubbins
[23:22] <wgrant> StevenK: Hm, indeed.
[23:22] <wgrant> StevenK: Distribution.searchSourcePackageCaches
[23:22] <wgrant> Search for LIKE
[23:27] <lifeless> wgrant: btw in case it wasn't obvious, the ghosts thing is now maintenance squad prob
[23:34] <wgrant> lifeless: Yep
[23:37] <mwhudson> wgrant: only if you don't have to think about an answer, but why is it that oauthnonce didn't get moved to memcache or something -- was it behaviour in the face of rolled back transactions?
[23:38] <lifeless> never been a need
[23:38] <mwhudson> mm
[23:38] <mwhudson> i'm sure i remember some goal along those lines
[23:38] <mwhudson> probably confused though
[23:38] <lifeless> and retried transactions perhaps
[23:39] <lifeless> it was very high writes at one point
[23:39] <lifeless> but not actually a problem compared to say the builddmaster
[23:39] <wgrant> Retried transactions are the big issue
[23:40] <wgrant> But there's also the issue that nonces are pointless for our oauth implementation...
[23:40] <mwhudson> because ssl?  or something else?
[23:40] <wgrant> Right, SSL
[23:40] <wgrant> I believe OAuth 2.0 actually drops nonces.
[23:41] <wgrant> Because it's intended to be run over SSL
[23:41] <lifeless> OAuth 2 does a lot of things
[23:41] <wgrant> Lots of things do a lot of things :)
[23:41] <mwhudson> i find the security aspects of oauth 1 to be a bit .. odd
[23:41] <mwhudson> like not signing the body
[23:41] <wgrant> Right
[23:41] <wgrant> OAuth 1 is pretty stupid
[23:41] <wgrant> It's from back in the days when people didn't believe that SSL everywhere would work
[23:42] <wgrant> But Launchpad always has, so OAuth 1 was a Bad Idea™ for us
[23:43] <wgrant> We use plaintext signatures, so if you sniff the request you can just replace the nonce and it'll still work...
[23:43] <mwhudson> could launchpad just ignore the nonces then?
[23:43] <wgrant> Right, that's what it's tempting to do after thinking a bit more.
[23:43] <mwhudson> i know nonces in general allow the client to make some decisions about whether to retry a failed request
[23:43] <mwhudson> but well, http also does that i guess
[23:44] <lifeless> er
[23:44] <lifeless> they are solely for replay attack prevention
[23:44] <lifeless> imagine you have an API 'delete 6 months of audit history'
[23:44] <wgrant> Yeah, they're nothing to do with client retries
[23:44] <wgrant> It's just replays
[23:44] <lifeless> you don't want that played at an attackers convenience
[23:44] <wgrant> Which SSL does already
[23:44] <mwhudson> lifeless: i understand that that's the main point yes
[23:45] <lifeless> mwhudson: s/main/entire/ :)
[23:45] <lifeless> wgrant: SSL isn't that robust, sorry.
[23:45] <mwhudson> someone once claimed to me that in a protocol that uses nonces, you can always retry a request if transmission failed
[23:45] <lifeless> wgrant: MITM in corporates is all over the place, and on some country levels too.
[23:45] <mwhudson> because it will get NACKed by the server if it did in fact get through
[23:45] <wgrant> lifeless: We use plaintext sigs
[23:45] <mwhudson> i wasn't entirely convinced by this :)
[23:46] <lifeless> mwhudson: they give you a mechanism that HTTP doesn't intrinsically provide, for once and only once.
[23:46] <mwhudson> lifeless: right
[23:46] <lifeless> mwhudson: but then so do any of a range of other layer-on-http tools, and I wouldn't want to conflate the two things.
[23:46] <wgrant> lifeless: SSL/TLS prevent replay attacks unless someone is MITMing your crypto
[23:46] <lifeless> wgrant: right, which is widespread.
[23:47] <wgrant> And if someone's MITMing it that badly, then they can just get the secret
[23:47] <wgrant> And re"sign" a new request with a new nonce
[23:47] <lifeless> if you generate the secret on the server, yes.
[23:47] <wgrant> Huh?
[23:47] <lifeless> wgrant: DH is all about avoiding that attack.
[23:47] <wgrant> Yes
[23:47] <lifeless> wgrant: on the MITM side, see e.g. 'sslbump' in squi.
[23:47] <wgrant> Sure
[23:48] <wgrant> But if your SSL is MITMed then you're screwed anyway
[23:48] <wgrant> A nonce doesn't help you if you're sending the secret plaintext over the SSL stream
[23:48] <wgrant> Because the attacker just grabs the secret and uses it to sign the new request
[23:48] <wgrant> We can't pretend to defend against successful SSL MITMs.
[23:48] <lifeless> thats why you don't send the secret over the SSL stream, see above under DH
[23:49] <lifeless> I'm not saying what we do is good.
[23:49] <wgrant> But OAuth doesn't use DH...
[23:49] <lifeless> I'm saying that MITM'd SSL isn't the end of the world.
[23:49] <lifeless> wgrant: I know.
[23:49] <wgrant> For our current implementation, MITM'd SSL is the end of the world
[23:49] <lifeless> wgrant: Have you heard me say 'Oauth is wonderful' recently?
[23:49] <wgrant> OAuth 1's nonces are attempting to defend against MITM'd SSL
[23:49] <wgrant> So they're useless
[23:50] <lifeless> of course, it got more fun with the oauth dude spitting the dummy
[23:50] <wgrant> 09:44:40 < wgrant> It's just replays
[23:50] <wgrant> 09:44:43 < wgrant> Which SSL does already
[23:50] <wgrant> 09:45:15 < lifeless> wgrant: SSL isn't that robust, sorry.
[23:50] <mwhudson> if you can mitm ssl you can probably get your hands on the session cookie, which is way easier to abuse :)
[23:50] <wgrant> Or do you mean in general for OAuth, not for us?
[23:50] <wgrant> mwhudson: Exactly
[23:51] <wgrant> In our implementation, if SSL's replay protection is bypassed then we're entirely screwed anyway
[23:52] <wgrant> I think it's pointless for OAuth to try to defend against SSL MITMs, because if you're trying to do that then you'r probably better off using a hardcoded cert anyway
[23:53] <StevenK> wgrant: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1227650/
[23:53] <wgrant> StevenK: %%%%%%%% Right.%%%%%%%%
[23:54] <StevenK> Haha
[23:57] <lifeless> mwhudson: one word, CRIME.
[23:58] <wgrant> Well, yeah
[23:58] <wgrant> But it doesn't impact replays
[23:58] <wgrant> Just... everything else
[23:59] <StevenK> wgrant: Tossing that branch at ec2.
[23:59] <StevenK> Jenkins after breakfast
[23:59] <bigjools> can someone help me work out why one of my LP users is getting MP email please?  I have an account "maas-lander" which is a member of "maas-maintainers" and all new MPs are emailed to it because "maas-maintainers is requested to review", despite maas-maintainers having no subscription settings.


[12:13] <Tinkery> Im back again
[22:05] <Unit193> Tinkery: Heya, so yeah ochosi had dropped by and would love the help.  Said he could try and guide you too.  Also:
[22:05] <Unit193> [03:41:58] < ochosi> although the depressing fact is that with gnome42 apps and libadwaita a good portion of theming is dead
[22:05] <Unit193> [03:42:34] < ochosi> but I guess that's just something to accept and for Xfce (even with Gtk4) theming will still be a thing
[22:05] <Unit193> [03:58:13] < ochosi> also, for starters looking into gtk4 support and trying to test/improve that would be great


[02:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: firefox-3.5/xulrunner-1.9.1 translations have not been fully imported yet. Therefor I will enable devmode for the next language-pack update (Sunday).
[08:40] <asac> ArneGoetje: hmm
[08:41] <asac> ArneGoetje: i am a bit scared now
[08:41] <asac> i will be on vacation for that whole week
[08:41] <asac> you think you can handle it?
[08:41] <asac> oh right. .. idea was going for PPA first
[08:41] <asac> that should be fine i guess
[08:41] <asac> unfortunately i cannot review it until monday 31st
[08:55] <Mark__T> anyone involved in indicator-applet development?
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> Mark__T - that would be tedg, but he's not around at the moment
[10:17] <mac_v> anyone know why ttf-bitstream-vera gives this error> Package ttf-bitstream-vera has no available version, but exists in the database.   This typically means that the package was mentioned in a dependency and never uploaded, has been obsoleted or is not available with the contents of sources.list
[10:17] <james_w> mac_v: it's been removed
[10:17] <james_w> in favour of ttf-dejavu
[10:17] <mac_v> james_w: oh :(
[10:18] <james_w> why's that bad?
[10:18] <mac_v> james_w: i use vera for a lot of my fonts , now i have to change all the settings , conky and rest
[10:19] <james_w> yeah, I'm not too sure why it was done like this
[10:20] <mac_v> james_w: are you aware who would know , why this was done? i dont want to change all the settings and again have to rest them , if this was a transient error
[10:23] <james_w> it wasn't transient
[10:23] <james_w> it was done in Debian following upstream's lead
[10:23] <mac_v> sheesh!  :(
[10:27] <tullarisc> Hi
[10:28] <tullarisc> I wondered if someone could help to make a package out of supertux, supratux or tuxjunior ... I would like to maintain it but I have no idea about the ubuntu package inclusion procedure .
[12:37] <SiDi> asac: you're a nm developer, right ?
[12:39] <asac> SiDi: i sometimes try
[12:39] <asac> :)
[12:39] <asac> nm stuff is best dealt in #nm ;)
[12:39] <asac> where we have access to full upstream infusion ;)
[12:42] <SiDi> asac: okey :p
[12:44] <davmor2> asac: I'm about to go for lunch but when I return I'm having issues with n-m0.8 on kubuntu I can connect to wpa with no issues but it isn't liking wep
[12:45] <davmor2> will try open when I get back
[13:17] <ArneGoetje> asac: why are you scared?
[13:18] <asac> ArneGoetje: because i am gone
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: ?
[13:18] <asac> but i am not scared, because i trust you to test the main languages
[13:18] <asac> before rolling to archive (from ppa)
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: heh
[13:18] <asac> ArneGoetje: i am on vacation next week
[13:18] <asac> back on 1st sep
[13:18] <ArneGoetje> asac: I see
[13:20] <asac> ArneGoetje: if you could kick off the run today in case there are errors or failures it would be great.
[13:20] <ArneGoetje> asac: the import is not done yet :(
[13:20] <asac> you could probably try with old exports to see if devmode actually works
[13:23] <ArneGoetje> asac: I can try
[13:24] <asac> great
[14:24] <Mark__T> tedg: ping
[14:27] <jcastro> didrocks: so I was figuring out james_w's bzr dailydeb thing and I can do quickly dailies if you want to make a new ppa
[14:39] <kenvandine> hey Mark__T
[14:39] <tedg> Mark__T: Pong!
[14:41] <Mark__T> I just did bzr pull and found that all the indicator-applet libs disapeared
[14:41] <Mark__T> found that you moved them to libindicate just a few minutes ago
[14:42] <Mark__T> I was surprised and wanted to ask you where they are before that
[14:44] <rickspencer3> bryce: sweet blog post on bug upstreaming
[14:48] <tedg> Mark__T: We split up the package into three source packages just to make it easier to assign bugs/build/etc.
[14:48] <tedg> Mark__T: Actually, the Xubuntu folks were some of the folks asking for it.
[14:49] <Mark__T> is xubuntu going to use it?
[14:51] <tedg> Mark__T: I think so, I believe they packaged up your messaging menu...
[14:52] <tedg> I haven't heard much recently.  But, last I checked it was.
[14:52] <Mark__T> what is their standard mail app?
[15:00] <tedg> Mark__T: I'm not sure.
[15:01] <tedg> Mark__T: I think they were more interested for IM and using the notifications.  But I'm not sure.
[15:01] <Mark__T> Okay, I still didn't have time to look into claws to make it indicator aware. I'm hoping, if xubuntu uses claws and indicator, someone pops up doing that :-P
[15:02] <tedg> Mark__T: That would be cool.
[15:03] <Mark__T> can't be hard too hard to hack claws notify plugin
[15:44] <Mark__T> tedg: how do I build libindicator.so?
[15:46] <Mark__T> Oh, that's number 3 of the split :-)
[16:11] <rickspencer3> hmm
[17:18] <kenvandine> asac, anything i need to do for a package that has split from one source package into 2?
[17:18] <kenvandine> libindicate is now a separate source package, i assume we don't treat it as a new package?
[17:19] <kenvandine> and should i remove all the old indicator-applet entries from the changelog?
[17:20] <asac> kenvandine: you can fork two packages out of a single tree (keeping changelog in both) ... or keep on using the source package for one part ... or do completely new source pakages
[17:20] <asac> if thats what you ask
[17:20] <kenvandine> sort of
[17:20] <asac> besides from that it has to go through new
[17:20] <kenvandine> upstream (dx team) has split the source into two trees
[17:20] <kenvandine> well 3 actually
[17:20] <asac> and take care that you use the same binaries ... if not you need to transition them properly
[17:20] <asac> of course you need higher version to take over the binaries
[17:21] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:21] <asac> once all done, remember to file a removal bug and assign ubuntu-archive
[17:21] <kenvandine> it creates mostly the same binaries
[17:21] <kenvandine> some new ones
[17:21] <asac> err subscribe ;)
[17:21] <kenvandine> ok
[17:21] <asac> kenvandine: binaries == packages in this context
[17:21] <asac> kenvandine: also remember that if you move binaries (real binaries) from one to other packages you need Replaces:/Conflicts: on them
[17:21] <kenvandine> ok, the real change is the source is new
[17:22] <kenvandine> yeah
[17:22] <kenvandine> there is a Replace
[17:22] <asac> kenvandine: so how was the released tarball name(s) upstream before and now?
[17:22] <kenvandine> it used to come from indicator-applet tarball
[17:22] <kenvandine> now it is a separate tarball
[17:23] <kenvandine> so now it is libindidate_version.tar.gz
[17:23] <mac_v> kenvandine: hi... after your discussion with asac , i have a question to ask , :) I'll wait
[17:23] <kenvandine> asac, so am i on the right track?
[17:23] <asac> kenvandine: and indicator-applet tarball still exists?
[17:23] <kenvandine> yes
[17:23] <kenvandine> it just doesn't build libindicate anymore
[17:24] <asac> yeah. then drop binary packages from indicator applet, put them in new source libindicate and either start a new package or keep the full changelog
[17:24] <asac> i would keep it if i reuse the other packages parts
[17:24] <kenvandine> asac, ok... that was what i was planning to do
[17:24] <kenvandine> good
[17:24] <kenvandine> mac_v, what's up?
[17:25] <mac_v> kenvandine: i'm trying to figure out a way to make the boot splash progress bar consistent [as in, not stop at one point and zoom again] have you guys any info about it , or why did you guys drop the progress bar? is it not possible at all?
[17:26] <kenvandine> no idea
[17:26] <kenvandine> bratsche, ^^
[17:27] <bratsche> I'm not sure what you mean.
[17:27] <mac_v> bratsche: i was talking to mat_t he said the reason for dropping the progress bar was because it was not consistent
[17:28] <bratsche> Right.. it wasn't very accurate.
[17:28] <mac_v> it doesnt progress at a steady speed, it stops in between then again zooms
[17:28] <kenvandine> mac_v, well it isn't possible to make the progress bar accurate
[17:28] <kenvandine> mac_v, so... it is kind of useless
[17:29] <kenvandine> and when you boot in under 10 seconds, why does it matter?
[17:29] <mac_v> kenvandine: bratsche: i was thinking , since there is difficulty finding out the time consumed by the process , how about a hack which calculates the boot time at the first boot and then every time the progress bar depends on that time
[17:29] <bratsche> Exactly.  We're trying to reduce the startup time anyway, so a progress bar is a lot less useful anyway.
[17:30] <kenvandine> mac_v, our hope is the splash is shown so briefly, you would never get a chance to register what the progress is
[17:30] <mac_v> i feel we have a nice feature ,and why drop it :) it actually shows off the speed of the boot
[17:30] <bratsche> We're not convinced that it's a good feature. :)
[17:31] <mac_v> ;p , oh well... then its just me then
[17:31] <bratsche> Plus you need some communication mechanism between all the components that are starting up so they can notify as they're done and you can advance your progressbar.. and stuff like that ultimately is just going to slow things down a bit.
[17:32] <mac_v> right good point , i never thought of that :(
[17:32] <bratsche> In the future we'll be able to start even faster as more important problems are solved (e.g., compiz, Nautilus, panel)
[17:32] <kenvandine> mac_v, trying to keep it simple
[17:33] <mac_v> yeah  , i guess you are right , well boot for me exactly wasnt 10 secs , so i didnt think of this :)
[17:33] <mac_v> bratsche: kenvandine nevermind then , thanx guys
[17:33] <bratsche> mac_v: We shouldn't be investing any more effort into splash screens and progress bars and things that are ultimately useless.  We should be investing effort into solving startup time for compiz and others.
[17:34] <mac_v> bratsche: yeah , are there any bugs regarding the panel in Karmic , which starts very late ?
[17:34] <bratsche> mac_v: All the new startup fu has not yet landed in Karmic, so you're not seeing the actual Karmic startup time yet.
[17:34] <hyperair> what new startup fu?
[17:34] <bratsche> I think the stuff Scott has been working on.
[17:34] <bratsche> kenvandine: That hasn't landed in Karmic yet right?
[17:35] <hyperair> specifically what changes?
[17:35] <kenvandine> bratsche, not yet
[17:35] <kenvandine> hyperair, starting gdm super early
[17:35] <bratsche> hyperair: I'm not involved in it, so I don't know.  I've only seen him demo it.
[17:35] <kenvandine> so you never even see usplash
[17:36] <bratsche> hyperair: But basically he's moving things so that X is one of the earliest things that starts.
[17:36] <hyperair> that is interesting
[17:36] <kenvandine> so you go from a black screen right into xsplash
[17:36] <bratsche> And a number of other changes under the hood that I'm not at all familiar with.
[17:36] <hyperair> but if you don't see usplash, how will you key in your dm-crypt password?
[17:36] <kenvandine> they are handling that somehow
[17:36] <hyperair> i see
[17:36] <kenvandine> i am not involved with that
[17:36] <hyperair> i was hoping for something more login-centric =(
[17:37] <kenvandine> i did hear it mentioned though
[17:37] <hyperair> like compiz starting faster, or something
[17:37] <bratsche> You can still fall back to usplash and stuff under some circumstances, such as when you have to run fsck and all that.
[17:37] <hyperair> right now my login time is > 50% of the entire statup time
[17:37] <hyperair> startup*
[17:37] <kenvandine> hyperair, the goal is 10 seconds from boot to full desktop
[17:37] <kenvandine> for karmic +1
[17:37] <bratsche> Yes.
[17:37] <kenvandine> so we hope to get as close as possible for karmic
[17:37] <hyperair> that sounds great, (so when will we see login stuff changes?)
[17:37] <mac_v> bratsche: the xsplash flicker , you have committed the fix but havent linked the branch , is it still in progress or?
[17:38] <bratsche> mac_v: It's merged into master, but I'm trying to solve another bug now before we do a release.
[17:38] <mac_v> hmm... ok , was just hoping to test it out... by i'll wait :)
[17:38] <bratsche> Hang on, I'll get you a link to the branch if you want.
[17:39] <bratsche> mac_v: You're welcome to build from master and test it if you want.
[17:39] <mac_v> cool
[17:39] <mac_v> master , nope
[17:39] <bratsche> The bug we're fixing now is related to if you're in a non-composited environment.  If you're using compiz then feel free to build from master.
[17:40] <mac_v> bratsche: right now my karmic is on the edge , will try when i get a few other things sorted out :)
[17:49] <bratsche> kenvandine: I'm getting the same error about insufficient privileges (the dbus warning).. when I'm running in metacity.  Weird.
[17:49] <bratsche> kenvandine: Any idea why the WM or compositing environment would affect this?
[17:54] <kenvandine> bratsche, no... that shouldn't matter
[18:01] <bratsche> It's definitely working with compiz, and it's definitely not working with metacity.


[01:08] <dpb1> Hey: best to ask in #maas
[13:13] <Neo4> Hi
[13:14] <Neo4> what is dns server set up on ubuntu for test how it works?
[13:14] <Neo4> it seems there exists a few dns reqursive and alteretative
[13:15] <Neo4> who know what dns use my internet connection and how it works, I get connection automatically using CHDHD
[13:43] <RoyK> well, google has <IP_ADDRESS> and <IP_ADDRESS> - works for me
[13:43] <RoyK> and *poof* he went
[16:40] <mojtaba> Hello, I have defined a systemd service and I have enabled it using systemd enable serviceName; but when I restart the computer it does not run again, and I have to run systemd start serviceName. Does anybody know what is going on and what should I do?
[16:44] <RoyK> mojtaba: if you pastebin the systemd config file, it might be easier to help you ;)
[16:45] <mojtaba> RoyK: sure, just a sec.
[16:46] <mojtaba> RoyK: http://paste.debian.net/1021487/
[18:26] <Neo4> guys which is webmail the best?
[18:26] <Neo4> squirrelmail is written to be old for now and better to use roundcube, it's the most popular webmeiler, isn't it?
[18:50] <RoyK> Neo4: I beleive roundcube is the preferred atm, yes
[18:53] <RoyK> Neo4: personally, I use zimbra, but that's a PITA to manage in terms of upgrades across distros etc, but then, mostly it works very well - but still - use a dedicated vm for it
[18:58] <fishcooker> after do $ sudo ifconfig eth0 mtu 1200 should i restart the networking on 14.04... how to restart the network safely?
[18:58] <fishcooker> is # ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0 ... safe ?
[18:59] <Neo4> RoyK: yes, its written in book 2014 yesr that roundcube better and modern than squirrelmail, Maybe now doesn't have sens set up it. Will try roundcube, Ok we can try both for experience
[18:59] <Neo4> there eixsts also hord
[18:59] <Neo4> about zimbra have never heard
[19:00] <RoyK> it's more of a groupware system than a webmail frontend
[19:01] <_KaszpiR_> fishcooker http://bryanapperson.com/blog/restarting-network-interfaces-in-ubuntu-14-04/
[19:02] <RoyK> fishcooker: better use iproute2, as in the command 'ip' - ifconfig is outdated https://baturin.org/docs/iproute2/#Change%20link%20MTU
[19:03] <RoyK> fishcooker: doubt you'll even need to restart the network
[19:03] <_KaszpiR_> you forget it's ubuntu ;)
[19:04] <RoyK> fishcooker: out of interest, why mtu 1200? it's rather on the low side
[19:04] <RoyK> _KaszpiR_: no, I didn't ;)
[19:05] <_KaszpiR_> I'm too used to 'nuke and create new server' with ubuntu
[19:05] <RoyK> _KaszpiR_: are you a windows sysadmin? ;)
[19:05] <_KaszpiR_> not really
[19:06] <RoyK> well, I've only used linux since 1994 or so, but I rarely nuke a server instead of fixing issues
[19:07] <_KaszpiR_> I'd say most windows sysadmins are more towards 'pets' in  'cattle vs pets' principle
[19:07] <_KaszpiR_> I'd say it depends on the cluster scale
[19:08] <RoyK> it does
[19:09] <_KaszpiR_> with 2 servers it's sometimes not worth to kill a cow ;)
[19:10] <RoyK> well, we have some 300 servers at work, 60% linux, 39% windows (or thereabouts)
[19:11] <_KaszpiR_> let's say add two zeros in my case
[19:11] <RoyK> ok
[19:11]  * RoyK just works for a smallish university
[19:11] <_KaszpiR_> thankfully no windows, which makes life much easier
[19:11] <RoyK> indeed
[19:12] <_KaszpiR_> but whatever server number, the number of server roles counts more
[19:12] <RoyK> but with that amount of servers, do you use ubuntu?
[19:12] <_KaszpiR_> because you can have like 300 servers with 100 roles, while I can have 30000 servers with 4 roles ;)
[19:13] <_KaszpiR_> do I use ubuntu? depends on the role ;D
[19:13] <RoyK> most of our machines are quite dedicated
[19:13] <RoyK> the old thought about one server to rule them all is somehow outdated
[19:14] <_KaszpiR_> not realy
[19:14] <_KaszpiR_> *not really
[19:14] <_KaszpiR_> having a cerntral server to manage other helps
[19:15] <_KaszpiR_> but it's more toward a service and keeping it HA accoring to SLO/SLA
[19:15] <RoyK> sure, but keep that pretty safe, and don't let it run too much stuff
[19:15] <_KaszpiR_> exackly
[19:15] <RoyK> 7-factor authentication and so on :D
[19:16] <_KaszpiR_> uh not what I ment by 'exackly' :D
[19:21] <Neo4> RoyK: you have 300 comps server in one university?
[19:21] <RoyK> comps?
[19:21] <Neo4> servers?
[19:21] <Neo4> one server is one computer?
[19:22] <RoyK> not physical servers - most of them are virtual - we're at 90% virtualisation or thereabout
[19:22] <Neo4> _KaszpiR_: and you said there 30000 and it's as well virtual servers?
[19:22] <_KaszpiR_> mixed
[19:23] <_KaszpiR_> bare metal and vm
[19:23] <_KaszpiR_> most vm
[19:23] <Neo4> RoyK: ok, I though you said small university and so many computers, it looks like one server one computer...
[19:23] <Neo4> _KaszpiR_: understood
[19:23] <_KaszpiR_> like 95% or more
[19:24] <_KaszpiR_> some bare metals are pets, oh so furry pets ;)
[19:24] <_KaszpiR_> some metals are cattle
[19:24] <_KaszpiR_> but we have also some pet vms
[19:24] <RoyK> generally, physical servers are good for three things, virtualisation, storage and for very specific things that need to be independant of everything else, but then, well, you can setup a small virtualisation cluster for them as well
[19:24] <_KaszpiR_> it's just unaviodable or making proper ha/ft or cluster setups is overkill
[19:25] <_KaszpiR_> now bare metals are very simple hosts just for virtualization or storage layer
[19:26] <Neo4> RoyK: one server equal one IP? if servers is placed on one physical coputer they are all will have equal IP?
[19:27] <Neo4> I'm interesting how digitalocean works, there each VPS has unique IP
[19:27] <RoyK> Neo4: no, each server has its own address, like always
[19:27] <RoyK> we're moving more servers to plain IPv6 atm, because we don't want to use NAT unless we have to, and there aren't enough IPv4 addresses left
[19:29] <Neo4> ok, anyway I don't understand what difference between ipv4 ipv6 and what is NAT, doesn't matter
[19:29] <RoyK> the anti-NAT thing is mostly about logging, since we do it on the edge
[19:29] <Neo4> If virtual servers place on the same coputers, coputer has one IP and it should be all server have the same one IP?
[19:29] <Neo4> it should be so
[19:29] <RoyK> Neo4: google ipv6 - you'll need to learn it some day ;)
[19:30] <RoyK> Neo4: in linux/kvm or something similar, you just setup a bridge and attach it to a nic and then add virtual interfaces connected to that bridge
[19:30] <Neo4> ok, in one day will learn :)
[19:31] <RoyK> in vmware, you have a virtual switch and just assign a nic or two to a vm and give them whatever VLAN tag they would need
[19:31] <Neo4> RoyK: see it means that physical computer should be include many others IP ( something like many other wires)
[19:31] <RoyK> same applies to anything else - depending on how big your system is
[19:32] <RoyK> erm - wires are connectors, below layer 1 in the osi protocol, IP is on layer 3 - you can have a ton of IP addresses over a wire, and you mostly have
[19:33] <Neo4> ok
[19:34] <RoyK> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LANW3m7UgWs, perhaps
[19:34] <RoyK> just learn it
[19:35] <Neo4> RoyK: I added to bookmarks
[19:35] <Neo4> will watch later
[19:35] <Neo4> RoyK: do you know what is DNS? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72snZctFFtA
[19:36] <Neo4> it's nice explanation
[19:36] <RoyK> I know DNS, yes ;)
[19:37] <Neo4> RoyK: I badly even after vide, how many total number of IP? <IP_ADDRESS> ? it means mre that this number can't be
[19:37] <Neo4> other words it's<PHONE_NUMBER>55
[19:38] <Neo4> each country has her own ip range...
[19:38] <RoyK> no, please spend some hours on youtube or something
[19:38] <Neo4> ok :)
[22:23] <themoonisshining> is 14.04 trusty the latest version of ubuntu server
[22:29] <Seveas_> themoonisshining: no, 17.10 is. And 16.04 is the latest LTS version. Ubuntu 18.04 LTS will be released in 3 days time
[23:44] <compdoc> there any difference between Ubuntu desktp and Ubuntu Server, except the gui? is anyhing tuned differently?
[23:52] <RoyK> compdoc: the gui
[23:53] <compdoc> yeah, seems everything is the same with the kernel


[06:22] <android> !which kernel has 16.04.2
[07:47] <apw> android, the media would have had 4.8 i believe
[07:52] <tjaalton> apw: is the current xenial sru cycle still on target (release on aug 7th)
[07:52] <apw> tjaalton, as far as i know yes, why ?
[07:53] <apw> we are somewhat backed up but we are catching up
[07:53] <apw> we try not to slip release the candance even when we are slipping individual releases
[07:53] <tjaalton> apw: there's a oneliner for i915 pciids that would like to get in if there's a respin, but not necessarily needs one just for this
[07:54] <apw> tjaalton, if you get the patch to the list asap, i'll get it on the "if there is a respin" list
[07:54] <apw> smb, ^
[07:54] <tjaalton> sure
[07:54] <apw> klebers, ^
[07:55] <smb> yeah klebers. I pretend to know nutting bout anyting
[07:57] <klebers> xenial cycle already started and for now it's kind of on track
[07:58] <klebers> I will make sure we include it if we have a re-spin (given that it's sent to ML and ack'ed)
[07:58] <apw> klebers, we have a column for that i tink
[07:59] <klebers> apw, not on the sru board, but I will create it
[08:02] <apw> klebers, oh yeah, wrong board, good plan
[09:59] <android> doea the 4.4 ubuntu16 kernel have in kernel encryption certificates?
[10:01] <apw> android, certificates for what ?
[10:09] <android> anything this is a security audit, crypto needs to be capable of being switched off
[10:10] <apw> the kernel almost cirtainly contains certificates to validate its own modules
[10:10] <android> apw
[10:12] <android> this is with conscern to networking
[10:13] <android> say it is on a lan the ssl and any crypto is turned off is there anthing in kernelspace
[10:14] <apw> all network related crypto is loaded from userspace, there are no default keys that i know of
[10:14] <android> Is it better to go with fedora for lan?
[10:14] <apw> does that question even make sense?
[10:15] <android> ubuntu works great online
[10:15] <android> better than any os except possibly windows
[10:16] <android> for local business lan I need to be able to audit all com lines
[10:17] <android> crypto makrs it not possible omline ssl comea from rsa
[10:17] <apw> and if you don't support ssl you won't be able to talk to an increasing section of the internet
[10:17] <android> and has evolved into a big blob of somebody elses authority
[10:18] <android> yes apw I agree
[10:18] <android> google is taking over
[10:18] <apw> anyhow, the kernel does not do any encrypted communications itself, only on request from userspace
[10:19] <apw> privacy is increasing is probabally a fairer statement
[10:20] <android> no more dual booting
[10:20] <android> screws everything up
[10:23] <android> npw if I want to invite guests on my network can you make a page ise facebook for login?
[10:23] <android> something fairly unbiquitis
[10:24] <android> there are so many captuve portals now
[10:24] <android> I do want to be kind to strangers
[10:25] <apw> android, why not have a separate guest network (vlan whatever) and print the password on your wall
[10:25] <android> let them access through my network without a oruvate password
[10:26] <apw> have a private password which you give them, but have it easy to find when they are local
[10:26] <android> the password is then not unique
[10:26] <apw> indeed
[10:26] <android> facebook is
[10:26] <apw> i am sure you can do that if you wanted to, i have no knowledge in this space
[10:26] <apw> recording people who come just means you have more data you need to keep safe
[10:27] <apw> just don't let them on the bit you have to audit, keep it utterly separate
[10:28] <apw> i even do that at my home
[11:24] <patrik> Hi! I'm debugging a driver and expect it to dump to /sys/devices/virtual/devcoredump but "udevadm monitor" shows that kernel and udev adds and removes them. I've been researching enabling apport to handle it and even overriding the default "core_pattern" settings to avoid apport but I still can't capture it. In 1704. Any ideas?
[11:42] <android> patrik what command do you run for this expectation?
[11:43] <android> there is a debug option usually activated at boot with grub modesettings
[21:24] <nomego> Hi, I'm debugging a kernel driver and is trying to make it device core dump, but udevadm monitor shows that it's getting deleted instantly. Any tips? I've tried enabling apport, setting ulimit -c, even overriding the core_pattern to avoid using apport but nothing seems to work. Something fundamental I've missed?