[14:56] <ahasenack_> is the PPA DEP8 queue frozen?
[14:57] <ahasenack_> my package is in the same queue position since friday
[14:57] <ahasenack_> noble ppa, amd64
[15:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New source: swig4.1 (noble-proposed/primary) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:35] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [source] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [amd64] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [s390x] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [armhf] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [amd64] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [armhf] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [s390x] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[15:46] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [arm64] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[15:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [arm64] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[16:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: swig4.1 [riscv64] (noble-proposed/none) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[16:10] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted swig4.1 [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [4.1.0-0.3ubuntu1]
[17:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ogre-1.12 [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ogre-1.12 [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ogre-1.12 [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:11] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ogre-1.12 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ogre-1.12 [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1]
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ogre-1.12 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1]
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ogre-1.12 [armhf] (noble-proposed) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1]
[17:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ogre-1.12 [s390x] (noble-proposed) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1]
[17:19] <jbicha> ahasenack: https://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/running looks overwhelmed for amd64; I don't know how priority works for PPAs
[17:29] <vorlon> I was running retries of all failed/dep-wait armhf packages at 2-hour intervals overnight to try to progress things up the stack.  I've stopped now
[17:30] <vorlon> jbicha, ahasenack: if you look at the 'running' autopkgtests, you'll also find that only ppc64el and s390x are currently running. So there's some kind of infra problem currently affecting the other archs
[17:31] <vorlon> oh, correction, I found one test each running on armhf and arm64...
[17:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ogre-1.12 [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[17:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ogre-1.12 [arm64] (noble-proposed) [1.12.10+dfsg2-3.1~exp1ubuntu1]
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: spirv-llvm-translator-18 [i386] (noble-proposed/universe) [18.1.0-1] (i386-whitelist)
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: spirv-llvm-translator-18 [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [18.1.0-1] (i386-whitelist)
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: spirv-llvm-translator-18 [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [18.1.0-1] (i386-whitelist)
[18:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: spirv-llvm-translator-18 [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [18.1.0-1] (i386-whitelist)
[18:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: spirv-llvm-translator-18 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [18.1.0-1] (i386-whitelist)
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted spirv-llvm-translator-18 [amd64] (noble-proposed) [18.1.0-1]
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted spirv-llvm-translator-18 [i386] (noble-proposed) [18.1.0-1]
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted spirv-llvm-translator-18 [s390x] (noble-proposed) [18.1.0-1]
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted spirv-llvm-translator-18 [arm64] (noble-proposed) [18.1.0-1]
[18:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted spirv-llvm-translator-18 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [18.1.0-1]
[18:12] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[18:15] <doko> apw: linux has to be built in -proposed for now. linux-tools t64 dependencies ...
[18:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- Unapproved: accepted yt-dlp [source] (jammy-backports) [2024.03.10-1~bpo22.04.1]
[18:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[18:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[18:21] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[18:23] <vorlon> jbicha: gnome and vanilla-gnome-desktop depend on gnome-tweaks, which depends on user-session-migration, which has time64-related test failures that are opaque to me.  What should we do here? the archive would allow me to remove user-session-migration on armhf without increasing the uninstallable account, I think, because gnome-tweaks is Arch: all so installability is only checked on amd64
[18:23] <vorlon> jbicha: but in practice this makes gnome and vanilla-gnome-desktop, which are Arch: any, uninstallable on armhf
[18:24] <vorlon> jbicha: since we are dropping raspi armhf support in 22.04 and our only armhf targets that will be supported post-GA are Ubuntu Core, I think we should not worry about having a working gnome desktop on armhf; but it's still work to unwind it
[18:25] <vorlon> src/unit.c:229:5: error: implicit declaration of function ‘wait’; did you mean ‘
[18:25] <vorlon> want’? [-Werror=implicit-function-declaration]
[18:25] <vorlon> ...well fine then
[18:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[18:42] <jbicha> vorlon: user-session-migration should be basically the same as session-migration; I just didn't get around to porting things over to the package that got accepted into Debian
[18:43] <doko> vorlon: qt6-webengine  ftbfs, embedded zlib ...
[18:43] <vorlon> jbicha: oh is that why it seemed familiar and I couldn't figure out where my fixes had gone
[18:44] <vorlon> jbicha: because I did https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/session-migration/0.3.8 and then went, hang on, where did my changes go ;D
[18:47] <vorlon> doko: yes, Zixing noted it yesterday, I'm trying to look at it now; the build log doesn't explain here why _FILE_OFFSET_BITS isn't set correctly when it's right there on the compiler commandline
[18:47] <vorlon> and zlib itself has no problem
[18:53] <doko> vorlon: src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/zlib/gzguts.h is missing the _TIME_BITS undef
[18:54] <vorlon> doko: ok. are you fixing?
[18:55] <doko> $ fgrep -r 'undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS' src/3rdparty/
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/sqlite/src/config.h.in:#undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/breakpad/breakpad/src/config.h.in:#undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/tflite/src/third_party/nasm/config.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS */
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/pdfium/third_party/libopenjpeg20/opj_config_private.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS */
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/fontconfig/include/config.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS */
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/zlib/gzguts.h:#    undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/freetype/src/src/gzip/gzguts.h:#    undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/nasm/config/config-linux.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS */
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/nasm/config/config-mac.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS */
[18:55] <doko> src/3rdparty/chromium/third_party/minizip/src/lib/liblzma/config.h:/* #undef _FILE_OFFSET_BITS 64 */
[18:55] <doko> more work  ...
[18:56] <vorlon> doko: config.h.in doesn't count and the rest are in comments?
[19:02] <doko> uploaded, untested
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: mediastreamer2 [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1] (kubuntu)
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [amd64] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [armhf] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [riscv64] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [arm64] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [s390x] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted mediastreamer2 [ppc64el] (noble-proposed) [1:5.2.0+dfsg-3.1ubuntu1]
[19:40] <doko> arighi: linux has to be built in -proposed for now. linux-tools t64 dependencies ...
[22:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [amd64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[22:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [arm64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[22:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [s390x] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[22:26] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [ppc64el] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[22:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [armhf] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[22:47] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: ghmm [riscv64] (noble-proposed/universe) [0.9~rc3-5.1ubuntu3] (no packageset)
[23:21] <mwhudson> jbicha: telepathy-glib ftbfs (on all arches), suspect new glib / gobject-introspection
[23:21] <mwhudson> jbicha: project seems dead upstream though?
[23:43] <vorlon> doko: qt6-webengine failed with symbols errors, looking


[00:17] <Shinka> I know that's a stupid question but sometime when I move my mouve, I don't actually know how I do it, but I get to see a preview of all currently active windows. This is cool! I would just like to know how to do it :P
[00:17] <Shinka> mouve = mouse
[01:14] <JoeSomebody> 160 gb hdd, install ubuntu on half of it, kubuntu says other half of disk unusable after i create a root partition
[01:14] <JoeSomebody> changed hdds, same thing
[01:14] <JoeSomebody> so kubuntu is incompalible with ubuntu LMAO
[01:14] <JoeSomebody> cant be
[01:15] <JoeSomebody> what is this unusable garbage?
[01:16] <Kimlaroux> why do you want to install kubuntu on a serepate partition?
[01:17] <Kimlaroux> can't you just intall kubuntu-destop over Ubuntu and chose your environment on login?
[01:17] <JoeSomebody> thinking...
[01:18] <JoeSomebody> i wanted to see the differences between the 2 , so i thought i HAD TO
[01:18] <JoeSomebody> i dont have to ?
[01:19] <JoeSomebody> i want to know things like is the same list of programs and games available, and if not why, and other things like that
[01:20] <JoeSomebody> this brings up another question
[01:20] <Kimlaroux> kubuntu is ubuntu with kde
[01:21] <Kimlaroux> you can simply install kubuntu-desktop on top of ubuntu and you'll get kubuntu
[01:21] <JoeSomebody> perhaps it IS better to give a person both DE with an install?
[01:21] <Kimlaroux> I can't remember if installing it removes gnome/unity though
[01:21] <OerHeks> you should be able to do both, 2 desktops on 1 ubuntu installation, and side-by-side
[01:21] <JoeSomebody> i wouldn't want it to remove it
[01:22] <JoeSomebody> so start with ubuntu?
[01:22] <Kimlaroux> well, in my opinion it's cleaner and less confusing to have a different installation for both, if you want to compare... but that's just my taste =)
[01:23] <OerHeks> i would choose side/by/side too, wich does not share programs & documents standard.
[01:24] <OerHeks> if your disk is unusable, do you have 4 primairy partitions already ? ( this is the max)
[01:24] <JoeSomebody> well i had a 160, ubuntu, made 40000 root, 4000 swap, 40000 home
[01:25] <JoeSomebody> then coudl not do the same with kubuntu, said ubusable
[01:25] <JoeSomebody> then coudl not do the same with kubuntu, said unusable
[01:25] <JoeSomebody> i had 2 already
[01:25] <JoeSomebody> i'm gonna try again
[01:26] <JoeSomebody> logical is ok right?, i usually dont
[01:26] <OerHeks> yes, extended with logical is ok
[01:43] <mOrO^> after succesful install, updates download, and then the install of the upgrades freezes after about 56percent progress................after powering off, I get back on and cant install anything cuz it says that another manager is in use!!!   HELP!
[01:48] <ybit> another manager? hmm.
[02:15] <JoeSomebody> ok so now this time the installer crashed right after making the home partition
[02:16] <JoeSomebody> no parent item for child
[02:16] <JoeSomebody> i assume i am not the first to install these two?
[02:17] <JoeSomebody> ubuntu = 30gb root, 4 swap, 40 gb home
[02:17] <JoeSomebody> kubuntu = 30gb root, 4 swap, 40 gb home
[02:17] <JoeSomebody> but after makling home installer crashes , twice
[02:17] <JoeSomebody> i had tried it again, same
[02:18] <JoeSomebody> the only primary partition was ubuntu root
[02:18] <JoeSomebody> not sure what to try next
[02:21] <Kimlaroux> why do you need a home partition?
[02:21] <Kimlaroux> If you want one, Why not using just one for both install?
[02:23] <JoeSomebody> if i use one  for both i cant see differences
[02:23] <JoeSomebody> i assume
[02:23] <JoeSomebody> cant even find kubuntu-desktop
[02:23] <JoeSomebody> how do i find kubuntu-desktop?
[02:23] <JoeSomebody> in ubuntu?
[02:24] <Kimlaroux> nah I mean the /home partition, you can use the same for different installations
[02:24] <Kimlaroux> it should not give you problems, but I might be wrong here
[02:24] <JoeSomebody> can't find a damn thing with "unuty search"
[02:24] <JoeSomebody> i am now in ubuntu trying to add kde , and cannnot
[02:25] <Kimlaroux> when you installed ubuntu, you manually configured the partitions?
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> because kubnuntu will not install
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> eys
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> yes
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> [10:17] <JoeSomebody> ubuntu = 30gb root, 4 swap, 40 gb home
[02:25] <Kimlaroux> is there another OS on the system?
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> no
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> took a blank 160gb
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> [10:17] <JoeSomebody> ubuntu = 30gb root, 4 swap, 40 gb home
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> [10:17] <JoeSomebody> kubuntu = 30gb root, 4 swap, 40 gb home
[02:25] <JoeSomebody> [10:17] <JoeSomebody> but after makling kubuntu home installer crashes , twice
[02:25] <Kimlaroux> hhmm, did the installer give you a automatic configuration for the partitions?
[02:26] <JoeSomebody> i had only one other choice which erased ubuntu
[02:26] <JoeSomebody> i have tried several things
[02:26] <Kimlaroux> that's weird
[02:27] <JoeSomebody> i thought so :)
[02:27] <JoeSomebody> last year this worked
[02:27] <Kimlaroux> the installer often has many choices... one being automatic repartitioning for installation beside other installed OS
[02:27] <JoeSomebody> ub and kub on together
[02:27] <Kimlaroux> maybe they changed that, for some obscure reason
[02:28] <JoeSomebody> i can't imagine why , and i hope not
[02:28] <Kimlaroux> so what crashes exactly, the installer, or the boot?
[02:29] <JoeSomebody> installer
[02:29] <Kimlaroux> the installer crashes?!? woha
[02:29] <Kimlaroux> I'm betting it doesn't like to see two homes on the disc
[02:29] <JoeSomebody> if i go logical, it crashes at the end, just before making partitions
[02:29] <Kimlaroux> and 2 swap
[02:30] <Kimlaroux> you don't need two swaps, the installer should use the one that's already there
[02:30] <Kimlaroux> can't you just select the already installed swap during kubuntu's installation?
[02:31] <JoeSomebody> maybe thats it however i did get away with this under another distro
[02:31] <JoeSomebody> i will try to use 1st swap
[02:31] <Kimlaroux> good idea
[02:31] <Kimlaroux> another thing
[02:32] <Kimlaroux> you don't need to make a separate partition for your home, you can place everything on a single partition
[02:32] <JoeSomebody> well i wasnt sure there
[02:33] <JoeSomebody> after all home contains desktop settings and stuff does it not?
[02:33] <Kimlaroux> yes
[02:33] <Kimlaroux> I haven't used a separate partition under Kubuntu in years
[02:34] <Kimlaroux> it just sucks when one of the partition fills up and you gotta repartition to get more space... I like to have the whole disc for everything
[02:34] <JoeSomebody> as long as there are 2 desktop folders created i guess it would be ok, one for kde and one for gnome?
[02:34] <Kimlaroux> nah I think you're not understanding what I'm saying
[02:35] <Kimlaroux> your /home folder can be within the "root" partition
[02:35] <Kimlaroux> so you have, for exemple, 70GB for ubuntu and 70GB for Kubuntu
[02:36] <Kimlaroux> and each partition has it's own /home folder, inside the main partition
[02:40] <JoeSomebody> ok
[02:42] <Kimlaroux> But again, it's a personal choice... it might be the source of you problem though
[03:09] <tim> Hi All
[03:11] <tim> Hi Jayne
[03:16] <tim> Good Evening all
[03:18] <EvilResistance> hi
[03:19] <tim> Hi Evil
[03:19] <tim> whats up?
[03:19] <blausurf> hi
[03:20] <tim> Hi
[03:20] <tim> whats up with this channel?
[03:21] <OU812> hellllooooo?
[03:22] <dipesh> hellooo??
[03:23] <OU812> Good Evening dipesh
[03:23] <dipesh> good evening
[03:23] <OU812> Where are you from?
[03:23] <dipesh> i want to contribute to KDE how can I do it ??
[03:24] <OU812> I really don't know, I just joined this channel
[03:24] <dipesh> ohkk....
[03:24] <dipesh> i m from india
[03:24] <dipesh> whr r u from??
[03:24] <OU812> I'm from the states, North Carolina
[03:25] <dipesh> what do u do??
[03:25] <OU812> I am an electrical engineer
[03:25] <OU812> what about you?
[03:25] <dipesh> great and i am a IT engineering student
[03:26] <mime1111> LINUZ RULEX
[03:26] <OU812> I do some programming on the side, Ruby on Rails rules
[03:46] <qisnitweird> cant enable flash in konqueror
[03:50] <qisnitweird> $
[04:12] <luiz_> teste
[04:18] <luiz_> :)
[04:18] <luiz_> dhdhdh
[04:18] <luiz_> ddd
[04:18] <luiz_> d
[04:18] <luiz_> d
[04:18] <FloodBotK3> luiz_: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[04:28] <none_13> hello guys
[04:29] <none_13> dolphin don't preview flash videos.
[04:29] <none_13> can u give me some fix link?
[04:57] <Tech-1> knock it off
[07:55] <anubis> Hi , ich habe hier eine SD Karte, von der ich gerne gelöschte Bilder wiederherstellen möchte. Photorec möchte nun den Partition-Table-Type wissen. Leider weiß ich nicht was ich da reinschreiben muss. Kann mir jmd einen Tipp geben?
[07:56] <anubis> None?
[08:36] <soee> ekm :)
[08:36] <soee> someone using beta ppa and have already KDE 4.8 beta2 ?
[08:43] <gribouille> hi
[08:43] <gribouille> the kde 4.7.4 packages have been updated several times these days. why?
[08:47] <gorgonizer> soee: I tried to install it, but the install seems broken, some of the packes will not install..
[08:48] <ikonia> gorgonizer: for fixes
[08:48] <ikonia> gorgonizer: thats why updates get pushed out
[08:49] <gorgonizer> I am trying to install KDE SC 4.8 Beta 2 oackages from the beta ppa
[08:49] <gorgonizer> *packages..
[08:49] <ikonia> ok.......?
[08:49] <gorgonizer> no matter..
[08:49] <soee> its working for me
[08:49] <soee> update works just fine
[08:50] <soee> abyway i cant edit any .js file in kate :D
[08:50] <soee> i can open, seecontent but cant edit
[08:50] <ikonia> what are the permissions on the file
[08:51] <soee> they are fine
[08:51] <ikonia> define "fine"
[08:51] <soee> other editors can open adn edit its content
[09:08] <gorgonizer> it doesn't appear that the kde4libs apckages are available for KDE 4.8 SC in th eBeta PPA from what I can tell..
[09:41] <Quetzalcoatl> hi! can anyone tell why kwin become a zombie process ?
[09:42] <SunTsu> Quetzalcoatl: do you know how process zombies are made?
[09:44] <Quetzalcoatl> suntsu:nope
[09:46] <SunTsu> Quetzalcoatl: processes that end need to return their status to their parent process. For that to happen the parent process needs to wait() on his forked child process. If it does not the process lingers on as a zombie until he can report his status
[10:35] <mithrop> hi everybody
[10:37] <maxvanceffer> hi
[10:40] <vprints> hlo
[10:41] <vprints> where is the kubuntu networkmanager conf file?
[10:41] <vprints> is the current networkmanager a plasmoid?
[10:42] <vprints> the thin is- i want to permanently enamble mobile broadband option
[10:42] <vprints> i have it set to autoconnect
[10:42] <vprints> but every time i start the computer i have to tick a box to enable it
[10:43] <vprints> and this checkbox isn't remembered
[10:44] <vprints> can't find any way to make this permanently stick in the UI
[10:44] <vprints> but mabe from the conf file?
[10:44] <vprints> anyone got any clues?
[10:44] <vprints> ty :)
[10:46] <cortex_sk> vprints: try /etc/NetworkManager
[10:47] <SunTsu> vprints: could you please try to make longer lines, my screen is scrolling fast because of you
[10:48] <vprints> ok
[10:52] <soilism> Hello world.
[10:56] <sekisushai> hello
[11:20] <Fleck> bot wars! :D
[11:23] <Tm_T> hopefully has stopped now
[11:38] <soee> need someone with kde 4.8b2
[12:41] <mime> hey ppl, mu external HDD has been detected by my comp with partiton manager, but once I started formatting, in any format, it crashes, any help? PLEASE
[14:12] <drobole_> test
[14:12] <JuJuBee> I have a  file called Trolltech.conf that is 82MB in my .config.  Google suggests that it is related to QT somehow.  Does anybody know anything about this file?
[14:13] <ikonia> it is a QT config file
[14:13] <ikonia> trolltech used to own / develop QT
[14:15] <drobole_> When I ran a full upgrade on 11.10 it hang somewhere along the line so I killed it, reinstalled some flashplugin stuff manually and rebooted. It seems to work ok but the grub entry doesn't seem to get updated anymore. I have tried commands like update-initramfs -u, update-grub and os-prober, but nothings seems to help. Anyone got any suggestions?
[14:16] <ikonia> drobole_: does the grub entry match the kernel you are booting ?
[14:16] <JuJuBee> ikonia: why could a config file be 82MB...?
[14:16] <drobole_> yes its the old <IP_ADDRESS>, same as uname is reporting
[14:16] <ikonia> JuJuBee: lots of config,
[14:16] <ikonia> drobole_: so then it's right
[14:16] <ikonia> !info linux-image
[14:17] <palyo34> türk var mı?
[14:17] <ikonia> drobole_: I suspect the lsb update hasn't been completed so it stil think it's 11.04 maybe ?
[14:17] <JuJuBee> ikonia: What is it a config file for?  What app?
[14:17] <ikonia> JuJuBee: it will be for QT as a tool set, not a specific app
[14:17] <ikonia> JuJuBee: look in the config file and you can see what it's configuring
[14:18] <drobole_> Thanks. So I guess I'm good then. Back to work... =)
[14:18] <JuJuBee> I am trying to use disk quotas for my students and it is causing them to go over quota along with ~/.local/share/akonadi
[14:19] <JuJuBee> ikonia: the config file has a bunch of paths then pages and pages of "%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%"
[14:19] <ikonia> JuJuBee: run file against it, try to see what format it's in
[14:20] <JuJuBee> ASCII text with very long lines
[14:21] <ikonia> JuJuBee: so nothing unusual there then
[14:22] <JuJuBee> ikonia: my other students are all in the K range not M range
[14:22] <JuJuBee> strange
[14:22] <ikonia> ask that student what he's configured
[14:23] <JuJuBee> He says nothing special other than the apps we use in class... I trust him
[14:23] <JuJuBee> Not sure what apps we use that use QT either...
[14:25] <ikonia> JuJuBee: all kde apps do
[14:25] <ikonia> JuJuBee: remove his config fi
[14:25] <ikonia> remove his config file, copy another one in place
[14:25] <ikonia> if it's the same as the normal apps you use as he says, it won't be a problem
[14:28] <drobole_> Oh man what a disapointment. Can't fix anything with that grub2
[14:28] <ikonia> why are you messing with grub2 ?
[14:29] <drobole_> it wont boot my latest kernel and I think its becouse of the crash i had upgrading
[14:29] <ikonia> why ?
[14:30] <drobole_> why what?
[14:30] <ikonia> drobole_: why are you messing with grub2 - why won't it boot the later kernel ?
[14:31] <drobole_> i think its becouse it crashed during upgrade. actually i think its some flashplugin-download that does it. and now i don't know how to make grub understand that i have a new <IP_ADDRESS> image
[14:33] <ikonia> drobole_: 1.) I told you to check the lsb status of your machine 2.) have you looked if the new kernel is actually installed ? I don't understand what a flashplugin has to do with your kernel
[14:34] <drobole_> how do i check the lsb status? (flashplugin-download package makes the upgrade hang, thats why i killed the upgrade process and rebooted)
[14:35] <ikonia> drobole_: ok - so when I ask you "check the lsb status" the response is "how do I do that" - not ignore it and keep messing with grub2 for no reason
[14:35] <drobole_> i thought you were talking about lsb-core not fully upgraded
[14:35] <ikonia> really annoys me that people ask for help and then either don't say they don't know how to do something, or just ignore it, then are shocked that they are not getting anywhere
[14:36] <ikonia> drobole_: well, you are correct, if lsb core is updated it will update the lsb status too
[14:36] <ikonia> so checking the lsb version on your machine is a good place to start
[14:36] <DarkriftX> Can anyone here help me figure out why I am getting this error when I try to compile a plasmoid "yasp scripted"?  http://pastebin.com/niJc2tJ4
[14:36] <DarkriftX> googling has not lead me to anything useful
[14:37] <ikonia> DarkriftX: missing QT libraries
[14:37] <ikonia> DarkriftX: is this plasmoid not compiled and packaged in the repos ?
[14:37] <DarkriftX> ikonia: nope, you dl the source from kdelook
[14:37] <DarkriftX> ive compiled it before on 11.04, but wont compile on 11.10
[14:37] <DarkriftX> I have libqtgui installed
[14:37] <ikonia> well there are two errors
[14:38] <ikonia> 1.) the target you are saying to build does not exist inthe make file
[14:38] <ikonia> 2.) it's complaining about missing libraries
[14:38] <ikonia> DarkriftX: did the "make" command work ?
[14:38] <DarkriftX> libqtgui4        is installed
[14:38] <ikonia> (before you did make install
[14:38] <DarkriftX> yes, make did
[14:38] <drobole_> ikonia: i did a apt-get install lsb-core -s, and it says to install a bunch of packages... which reminds me lsb-core wasn't installed
[14:38] <DarkriftX> the make install is what is failing
[14:38] <ikonia> DarkriftX: ls -la /usr/lib/libQtGui.so
[14:39] <ikonia> drobole_: lsb_release -a
[14:39] <DarkriftX> file does not exist
[14:40] <DarkriftX> I tried reinstalling the lib from apt, did no good
[14:40] <drobole_> ikonia: it says no modules, release 11.10. Not much more
[14:40] <ikonia> DarkriftX: there you go then
[14:40] <DarkriftX> I am thinking there are path or variable issues
[14:40] <DarkriftX> ok... but how do I get that lib if libqtgui4 is installed?
[14:40] <ikonia> drobole_: ok - so at least it shows 11.10
[14:40] <ikonia> DarkriftX: no path or variable issues, the file path it's calling out does not exist, that's not a variable
[14:41] <ikonia> DarkriftX: research what provides that file
[14:41] <drobole_> ikonia: it was 11.10 before i clicked that "Full Upgrade" button too
[14:41] <DarkriftX> isnt there a command in apt-get that shows "whatprovides" ?
[14:41] <ikonia> drobole_: oh, sorry, I thought you where upgrading from 11.04 to 11.10
[14:42] <drobole_> no
[14:42] <DarkriftX> I thought id used it before, but cannot find it
[14:42] <ikonia> DarkriftX: it is there
[14:42] <ikonia> DarkriftX: apt-file ?
[14:42] <DarkriftX> installing, ill try that
[14:45] <drobole_> ikonia: thanks for trying to help though.
[14:46] <DarkriftX> all 3 packages that provide that file are "up to date"
[14:46] <DarkriftX> ive reinstalled 1 of them, no change
[14:47] <ikonia> drobole_: is the new kernel installed ?
[14:47] <ikonia> DarkriftX: do a find on the machine see if that file is there
[14:53] <DarkriftX> find is still running, thanks for the help ikonia
[14:56] <DarkriftX> /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libQtGui.so
[14:56] <DarkriftX> wondering if I should symlink it, or find the file in the app im compiling that has its path hardcoded in
[14:58] <ikonia> DarkriftX: is this a 64bit system ?
[14:59] <palyo34> türk var mı
[14:59] <DarkriftX> no
[14:59] <ikonia> DarkriftX: I'm surprised thats not already linked
[14:59] <ikonia> palyo34: English only in this channel please.
[14:59] <palyo34> ok
[14:59] <DarkriftX> I edited the CMakeCache.txt file with the path, and now im getting more errors. Im guessing im going to have to edit a bunch of them
[14:59] <DarkriftX> is it supposed to be symlinked by default?
[15:00] <ikonia> DarkriftX: I would have expected it to either be in /usr/lib if this was a 32bit system or linked into it
[15:00] <DarkriftX> $ uname -i -- i386
[15:04] <DarkriftX> would I possibly be breaking stuff by copying the .so files from the i386-linux-gnu folder, or would I need to symlink them.
[15:05] <ikonia> don't copy
[15:05] <ikonia> symlink
[15:05] <DarkriftX> I tried cp -r *.so .. and cp -r *.so /usr/lib/, both failed. Am I missing something else? I rarely actually create symlinks
[15:06] <DarkriftX> Getting: cp: `/usr/lib/libanl.so': can make relative symbolic links only in current directory
[15:06] <ikonia> no no no no
[15:06] <ikonia> don't copy libs like that
[15:06] <ikonia> ughh you're making a mess
[15:06] <ikonia> don't copy
[15:06] <DarkriftX> erm, I used -s instead of -r
[15:06] <DarkriftX> I typed it wrong in here
[15:06] <ikonia> why are you using cp -s ?
[15:06] <ikonia> ln is the command
[15:06] <ikonia> ln -s
[15:07] <DarkriftX> Because I did not know, hence being in here asking.
[15:07] <ikonia> don't rush in with commands
[15:07] <ikonia> if you don't know - ask
[15:08] <DarkriftX> ok, well, used that and apparently it doesnt like symlinks to symlinks
[15:08] <DarkriftX> make[2]: stat: /usr/lib/libQtSvg.so: Too many levels of symbolic links
[15:09] <ikonia> ok - so that's a symlink
[15:09] <ikonia> DarkriftX: ls -la /usr/lib/libQtSvg.so
[15:09] <DarkriftX> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 2011-12-21 08:07 /usr/lib/libQtSvg.so -> libQtSvg.so
[15:10] <ikonia> ok so I think you've made a bit of a mess here as the link is pointing at it's self
[15:12] <mithrop> hi here
[15:13] <mithrop> I often have Segmentation fault of plasma-desktop. Do you know why ?
[15:18] <Peace-> mithrop: ?
[15:18] <Peace-> mithrop: kde version ? video card? destkop effect active?
[15:18] <DarkriftX> Ok, so I have no idea how to properly create these hundreds of symlinks with the ln command as the ones in the i386 folder are also symlinks to .so.x.x.x files, where x is the version number I assume
[15:20] <DarkriftX> do I need to create a for loop to ln each file that is *.so.* as /usr/lib/$1.so ?
[15:21] <mithrop> Peace-: ok. Fully upgraded KUbuntu (KDE 4), video : ATI Mobility Radeon HD4200 (driver non-free), desktop effects activated
[15:22] <ikonia> DarkriftX: I'm more worried that you now have symlinks that link to themselves
[15:22] <DarkriftX> ikonia: they are easily spotted, I can remove them if needed
[15:22] <DarkriftX> or overwrite them with the correct ones
[15:22] <DarkriftX> makes me wonder why ln would even allow that
[15:22] <Peace-> mithrop: mmm i guess :) you need to disable some desktop effects or some of
[15:22] <Peace-> mithrop: try disabling blur
[15:24] <Peace-> mithrop: i guess it's your video card and driver
[15:24] <Peace-> mithrop: you could try to use free driver ...
[15:24] <BluesKaj> hiyas folks
[15:24] <ikonia> DarkriftX: but what else is linked wrong now was the point I was going for
[15:24] <mithrop> Peace-: blur is already disabled
[15:24] <ikonia> DarkriftX: links that point to themselves are the same as a file not existing
[15:24] <DarkriftX> should only be .so files that were in the child folder
[15:24] <Peace-> mithrop: for me it's a video driver issue
[15:25] <DarkriftX> ikonia: yes, but they didnt exist before
[15:25] <DarkriftX> so now they still dont exist, but I have to remove the faulty link
[15:26] <mithrop> Peace-: if I disable my non-free driver, I will be able to use accelerated stuff anyway ?
[15:26] <Peace-> mithrop: try i dunno
[15:26] <Peace-> mithrop: btw it's a dangerous stuff :) i hope your are not noob
[15:27] <Peace-> you should be able to see the screen after that
[15:27] <Peace-> but i am not sure
[15:27] <mithrop> if by "not a noob" you mean "you know how to use a tty and nano", no I'm not a noob :p
[15:28] <ikonia> no is the answer
[15:28] <ikonia> pretty much most nvidia / ati cards do not work fully with the open modules
[15:29] <Peace-> mithrop: ok you can do then :)
[15:30] <mithrop> ok
[15:40] <BluesKaj> mithrop, , i'm a bit late in the game here , did you install the recommended driver in jockey ?
[15:40] <mithrop> I installed the only which works ^^
[15:42] <DarkriftX> ikonia: I have created a for loop to rename all symlinks that point to themself to file.so.bak
[15:42] <DarkriftX> so for now, they are resolved enough for me to continue.
[15:45]  * BluesKaj shrugs , ok mithrop , whatever that is
[15:45] <DarkriftX> What is the best way to copy symlinks in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu up a level, but still point to the files they are linked to?
[15:46] <mithrop> BluesKaj: the systment didn't recommend me one particular driver ;)
[15:48] <BluesKaj> in additional drivers , mithrop ?
[15:49] <BluesKaj> kmenu>apps>system>additional drivers
[15:50] <mithrop> yes. I have two possibilities in this window. ATI/AMD for FGLRX or FLGRX for ATI/AMD (post-release ofUbuntu)
[15:51] <mithrop> BluesKaj: so I choose the first one :)
[15:59] <BluesKaj> mithrop, fglrx is the driver afaik ...I used it on a ati onboard graphics a few yrs ago
[16:03] <mithrop> BluesKaj: what do you mean exactly ?
[16:04] <BluesKaj> mithrop, checkout your package manager about the fglrx driver description
[16:05] <arkanabar> Hey, does kubuntu still use packagekit as the primary GUI package management app?
[16:05] <maco> no, muon
[16:06] <BluesKaj> arkanabar, no it's called Muon now , it's ok but can be buggy
[16:06] <mithrop> ok
[16:07] <arkanabar> I'm going to guess that synaptic is only a sudo apt-get away.  for the command line, Deo gratias.
[16:08] <BluesKaj> arkanabar, yup, synaptic is still my fav , use it for reference
[16:10] <mithrop> BluesKaj: it's for AMD Radeon and FireGL graphics accelerators
[16:27] <gorgonzola> can someone please explain why do i have like three package management apps? apper?  kpackagekit? muon?
[16:27] <gorgonzola> and which are we keeping as standard in the distro?
[16:32] <szal> *buntu has apper?
[16:32] <BluesKaj> gorgonzola, if you ugraded thru the net , then the old kpackagekit will still be installed from the previous OS
[16:33] <BarkingFish> szal: yes it does. We got apper because packagekit had issues building on 11.10, so apper came as kpackagekit's replacement
[16:33] <gorgonzola> BluesKaj: i seem to remeber i installed from scrtach, which is what i normally do. and i knew that we were getting muon, but i just noticed that apper is the one serving notifications
[16:33] <gorgonzola> BluesKaj: these are all apt frontends, right? can i just leave on of them and remove all others?
[16:35] <BluesKaj> gorgonzola, I just use synaptic as a reference , I don't bother with notifiacations since I run an update/upgrade every morning anyway
[16:35] <BluesKaj> with ap-get
[16:35] <BluesKaj> apt
[16:35]  * BluesKaj shakes the crumbs out of the KB
[16:36] <gorgonzola> BluesKaj: yes, i generally relly on apt directly, too. but i just noticed i'm getting notification spammed by several diff package managers. so let me rephrase: can i remove some/all of them without ending with a dependency mess?
[16:36] <BluesKaj> gorgonzola, yes , just guis for apt
[16:36] <BarkingFish> crumbs??? You eat at your keyboard???  aaaargh!
[16:37] <BluesKaj> gorgonzola, i haven't tried removing them , i just turn of the notifiers
[16:37] <BluesKaj> off
[16:38] <outsider> hey hi,
[16:38] <BluesKaj> yeah  BarkingFish , I use a wireless KB here at my easy chair , with coffee and all kinds of good stuff :)
[16:38] <outsider> what software is good for vpn
[16:38] <outsider> safe
[16:39] <Torch> openvpn
[16:39] <outsider> thank u
[16:39] <outsider> but i neeed something free
[16:39] <Torch> it's free and open source
[16:41] <BarkingFish> BluesKaj: I drink at my pc, but never eat while I'm near the keyboard.  I've had the joys of having a furry keyboard before from doing that.  Got some spaghetti sauce in between the keys and it became intelligent :)
[16:41] <outsider> but is not for linux
[16:42] <szal> outsider: of course it is
[16:42] <Torch> sure it's available for linux. where do you get your information from?
[16:42] <szal> outsider: other than that..  do you need a VPN client or a VPN server?
[16:42] <outsider> official web site
[16:43] <outsider> vpn client
[16:43] <BluesKaj> !vpn | outsider
[16:44] <outsider> on windows i got anchor dree
[16:44] <outsider> free
[16:44] <outsider> and that is cool, i need something like that
[16:44] <szal> outsider: p   vpnc                                                                   - Cisco-compatible VPN client
[16:44] <outsider> thanks for the link ubottu thanks all
[16:45] <BarkingFish> outsider: You CAN use it on linux...   I see that from their entry on Google :)
[16:45] <outsider> yeh thank all
[16:59] <hanthana> is it possible to use kde 4.7.4 translations on Kubuntu 11.10?
[17:00] <BluesKaj> hanthana, I think so, altho i haven't tried it yet
[17:01] <hanthana> BluesKaj, is there anyway to confirm it?
[17:15] <BluesKaj> hanthana, I believe some have installed 4.7.4 with success , but the kicker seems to be problematic on some
[17:17] <hanthana> BluesKaj, i am not an Ubuntu user but I am trying to build a localized spin based on Kubuntu 11.10
[17:17] <hanthana> the translation for KDE 4.7.4 has been done
[17:24] <jbwiv> guys, I have sound from everything on my system except amarok. amarok *used* to work, but no longer. It's not muted as far as I can tell. Any ideas what might be wrong?
[17:37] <szal> BluesKaj: what's w/ the Kicker on 4.7.4?
[17:38] <DarkriftX> crap, can anyone tell me what this error means?
[17:38] <DarkriftX> Could not start process Unable to create io-slave:
[17:38] <DarkriftX> klauncher said: Unknown protocol 'file'.
[17:38] <DarkriftX> .
[17:38] <FloodBotK3> DarkriftX: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[17:38] <DarkriftX> sorry, thought it was one line
[17:38] <szal> DarkriftX: on doing what?
[17:39] <DarkriftX> opening anything that lists files
[17:39] <DarkriftX> dolphin, a save dialog, etc
[17:39] <DarkriftX> I recently updated a bunch of packages that were showing as having updates in apt-get
[17:40] <genii-around> DarkriftX: Have you rebooted since the updates?
[17:41] <DarkriftX> I have not, but im normally asked to when its needed
[17:41] <Torch> DarkriftX: try running this from a  shell: kbuildsycoca4 --noincremental
[17:42] <DarkriftX> sudo required?
[17:42] <genii-around> DarkriftX: I would suggest to do a shutdown-restart, then see if the problem persists... if so then to come back and continue
[17:42] <Torch> DarkriftX: no, must run this as user
[17:42] <DarkriftX> running
[17:42] <DarkriftX> complaining about lots of mime types not having tailing semicolon
[17:43] <DarkriftX> kbuildsycoca4(14082) KConfigGroup::readXdgListEntry: List entry text/html in "/home/darkrift/.local/share/applications/mimeapps.list" is not compliant with XDG standard (missing trailing semicolon).
[17:43] <DarkriftX> example of one of the hundreds of errors
[17:43] <Torch> DarkriftX: it will complain a lot. question is, does it complain about file:// or not... ;-)
[17:43] <Torch> DarkriftX: go check if the error persists in dolphin
[17:45] <DarkriftX> error continues
[17:45] <DarkriftX> I dont see file specifically listed, but URL is
[17:46] <Torch> DarkriftX: please pastebin the contents of /usr/share/kde4/services/file.protocol
[17:47] <DarkriftX> http://pastebin.com/JcpXYmxr
[17:48] <Torch> DarkriftX: looking ok
[17:48] <Torch> DarkriftX: does /usr/lib/kde4/kio_file.so exist?
[17:49] <DarkriftX> Hrmmm, I ran ldconfig a while ago, could that have broken something?
[17:49] <DarkriftX> $ ls -lah /usr/lib/kde4/kio_file.so
[17:49] <DarkriftX> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 83K 2011-12-09 00:07 /usr/lib/kde4/kio_file.so
[17:50] <Torch> DarkriftX: ok, looking good as well.
[17:50] <Torch> DarkriftX: running out of ideas without more diagnostics, i'm afraid
[17:50] <Torch> DarkriftX: try rebooting ;-)
[17:51]  * genii-around makes coffee
[17:51] <DarkriftX> I had a problem where libs that were expectd to be in /usr/lib/ were in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu instead. I was told to add that folder to a conf and run ldconfig, but it was already in an included conf when I ran ldconfig
[17:51] <DarkriftX> Im almost afraid to boot now lol
[17:51] <DarkriftX> reboot*
[17:52] <Torch> DarkriftX: please pastebin /etc/ld.so.conf and the output of ls -l /etc/ld.so.conf.d
[17:53] <DarkriftX> ld.so.conf is just an include to the folder, ill paste the output of the folder and files
[17:53] <Torch> DarkriftX: that's what i was trying to check ;-)
[17:55] <DarkriftX> http://pastebin.com/WKqDcF0H
[17:59] <Torch> DarkriftX: i don't see anything suspicious, but it's hard to tell of course. i'm on x86-64 here so the files are quite different
[18:00] <DarkriftX> Ok, guess its time to reboot and pray. Is there a way to restart kio before I do?
[18:00] <Torch> DarkriftX: kio itself cannot be started
[18:00] <Torch> DarkriftX: kios are shared libraries
[18:01] <DarkriftX> ok, reboot it is then :S
[18:01] <Torch> DarkriftX: and the one responsible for the file protocol seems to have stopped working for you for whatever reason
[18:01] <DarkriftX> hopefully ill be back in a few minutes
[18:01] <Torch> DarkriftX: good luck ;-)
[18:02] <DarkriftX> odd, the reboot seems to have halted
[18:03] <DarkriftX> kde started to shutduwn, then stopped and re-opened the main panel
[18:03] <Torch> DarkriftX: could be plasma acting up again...
[18:04] <DarkriftX> odd, I no longer have reboot in the leave menu
[18:04] <DarkriftX> guess ill use terminal
[18:04] <DarkriftX> I have no wm, so its hard to navigate
[18:13] <genii-around> kubutunvbtv: FloodBotK3 is a bot :)
[18:17] <Peace-> genii-around: :P
[18:17] <kubutunvbtv> http://tkavbtv.blogspot.com
[18:18] <genii-around> kubutunvbtv: Also there is no advertising in here, it is a way to get yourself booted
[18:18] <Pici> kubutunvbtv: do you have a support question?
[18:18] <kubutunvbtv> this is the webblog
[18:19] <kubutunvbtv> for downloads
[18:19] <kubutunvbtv> so if you dont like
[18:19] <kubutunvbtv> go out
[18:19] <genii-around> kubutunvbtv: It does not matter. If you cannot follow the ruiles here, you will be the one to go out.
[18:20] <kubutunvbtv> ok
[18:22] <kubutunvbtv> you know whom you will introduce you to pack toushck
[18:26] <kubutunvbtv> dous demo
[18:28] <BluesKaj> kubutunvbtv, do you have a kubuntu related question ?
[18:29] <reisi> is there a global hotkey or a desktop effect to just move all the windows out of the way, something like "present desktop"?
[18:29] <kubutunvbtv> If you are running a kubuntun but also I have subsystems that are installed, because the question guy
[18:30] <Peace-> reisi: alt tab?
[18:32] <BluesKaj> Peace-, reisi , what about just opening an unused desktop
[18:32] <reisi> Peace-: nope
[18:32] <Peace-> reisi: systemsettings => destkop effects
[18:32] <Peace-> reisi: there are the shortcuts
[18:32] <BluesKaj> kubutunvbtv, don't use a translator , join #ubuntu-es
[18:33] <reisi> Peace-: i didn't mean "present windows", i meant present *desktop*, but BluesKaj's idea works the same
[18:33] <genii-around> It may not be exactly what you want but ctrl-f12
[18:34] <Peace-> reisi: ctl f11 ?
[18:35] <Peace-> ah undestood  i guess
[18:35] <kubutunvbtv> lololo
[18:35] <kubutunvbtv> thanks u
[18:36] <Peace-> reisi: ctrl f8
[18:36] <genii-around> It *is* annoying that the Show Desktop widget seems to have been removed
[18:37] <Peace-> genii-around: show destkpp is there
[18:38] <Peace-> :P
[18:38] <genii-around> Peace-: Not on mine for some reason. ( kubuntu ppa KDE version )
[18:39] <Peace-> genii-around: haha you suck :P
[18:39]  * Peace- actually i have ppa too
[18:51] <BluesKaj> bbl
[19:25] <DarkriftX> Torch: I was finally able to get booted up, but had a bit of probs.
[19:26] <DarkriftX> my 2nd (and main) screen was not working on reboot. I had to unplug it, boot, plug it in and then "auto detect" it
[19:26] <DarkriftX> but files seem to be working, which was the problem so thanks for the troubleshooting
[20:00] <blair> will kubuntu 12.04 be based on qt 4.8?
[20:01] <genii-around> blair: So far it's based on 4.7.4
[20:02] <genii-around> Since it's an LTS I imagine it will go to qt 4.8 at some point though
[20:05] <blair> genii-around, because they want to be on the latest version since LTS will be supported for so long?
[20:06] <genii-around> blair: Yes, support is also moving to 5 years both desktop and server
[20:08] <genii-around> blair: They may be some devs in #ubuntu+1   ( which is also #kubuntu+1) who know more
[20:08] <Peace-> 4.8 will be release on 25/01 aorund
[20:08] <kimal73> hi, can you give me one repository list of kubuntu 11.10? i have some problems
[20:08] <Peace-> so i guess 12.04 will be based on 4.8
[20:08] <Peace-> !repository
[20:09] <EvilResistance> kimal73:  what kind of problems?
[20:09] <kimal73> EvilResistance: "This operation cannot continue since proper authorization was not provided"
[20:09] <EvilResistance> kimal73:  sudo apt-get update
[20:09] <EvilResistance> did you use sudo?
[20:10] <EvilResistance> (or in GUI, kdesu)
[20:10] <kimal73> i done this
[20:10] <blair> Peace-, 25/01 meaning January 25?
[20:10] <Peace-> blair: yes
[20:10] <Peace-> around
[20:10] <Peace-> i don't know well the date but in the late january
[20:11] <blair> Peace-, no, i was asking since it looked like a European date ordering :)
[20:11] <genii-around> kimal73: If you totally screwed up your sources.list file somehow, there is usually the sample one to be found at /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/sources.list
[20:12] <Peace-> blair: i am italian :)
[20:12] <Peace-> blair: and actually  we write 25/01
[20:13] <Peace-> btw here : http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.8_Release_Schedule#Wednesday.2C_January_25.2C_2012:_KDE_SC_4.8_Release
[20:13] <SunTsu> .o0( why on earth does everybody use different date formats, different ordering, different delimiters? So confusing )
[20:14] <kimal73> genii-around: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/777864/
[20:15] <kimal73> genii-around: i have kubuntu on ubuntu.
[20:15] <genii-around> kimal73: If your version is not 8.04  (Hardy)   then just replace all "hardy" with the name of your version ( like natty or oneiric ) instead
[20:16] <blair> is qt 4.8 source compatible with 4.7?
[20:16] <blair> could kubuntu update to qt 4.8 now, and then do kde in january
[20:17] <EvilResistance> blair:  i'm not sure that's wise... it might break things (usually major updates dont get thrown into oneiric main repos, but into backports... but upgrading qt could cause problems)
[20:17] <EvilResistance> genii-around:  that's actually not a safe thing...
[20:18] <EvilResistance> oh wait
[20:18] <EvilResistance> genii-around:  nevermind, misread
[20:18] <blair> EvilResistance, i was asking for precice
[20:18] <genii-around> EvilResistance: He is pasting the example file
[20:18] <genii-around> :0
[20:18] <EvilResistance> blair:  wait, for precise?
[20:18] <EvilResistance> you need the +1 channel...
 blair: They may be some devs in #ubuntu+1   ( which is also #kubuntu+1) who know more
[20:18] <EvilResistance> they're the ones who *might* help
[20:18] <EvilResistance> or might know more
[20:19] <blair> EvilResistance, i'm just curious on what's possible, but i'll check over there
[20:22] <EvilResistance> blair:  also, #kubuntu-devel
[20:26] <kimal73> genii-around: i'changed with oneiric but the problem is here.
[20:26] <EvilResistance> blair:  i have your answer for you :P
[20:26] <blair> EvilResistance, looking forward to it :)  they haven't answered yes/no in ubuntu+1
[20:28] <EvilResistance> blair:  see #ubuntu+1
[20:28] <EvilResistance> i hate pasting into more than one channel ;P
[20:29] <kimal73> EvilResistance: this is the result of sudo apt-get update http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/777881/
[20:50] <kimal73> someone can help for this message on oneric "This operation cannot continue since proper authorization was not provided"
[20:50] <kimal73> *help me
[20:58] <DarthFrog> kimal73: What operation is that?
[20:59] <kimal73> DarthFrog: i try to install some sw from muon software center
[20:59] <DarthFrog> kimal73:  Try "sudo apt-get install <software-package>"
[21:00] <DarthFrog> Or "sudo muon", if you prefer.
[21:01] <kimal73> yes, so it makes. but if i wont install a theme to my desktop background the problem is ever here.
[21:01] <kimal73> i have to use only konsol
[21:03] <kimal73> DarthFrog: this bug was solved before the oneric release. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qapt/+bug/875657
[21:03] <kimal73> yes, it's this.
[21:03] <DarthFrog> apt-get will work.
[21:03] <kimal73> ahahahahahah
[21:04] <DarthFrog> Or "kdesudo muon".
[21:06] <kimal73> DarthFrog: sudo muon is ok...
[21:06] <kimal73> thanks!
[21:08] <DarthFrog> You're welcome.
[21:40] <kimal73> can i use konsol to open the desktop settings?
[21:55] <genii-around> kimal73: kcmshell4 --list    will show you all available modules you call. You can call them by: kcmshell4 module-name
[21:55] <ubuntu__> Olaa!!
[21:55] <ubuntu> Olaa!!
[21:55] <genii-around> !es | ubuntu
[21:56] <ubuntu> OLaa!!
[21:58]  * genii-around sips
[22:01] <Tech-1> jack+coke ?
[22:02] <genii-around> Tech-1: Coffee :)
[22:02] <Tech-1> o
[22:02] <Tech-1> cool
[22:03] <kimal73> genii-around: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/777981/
[22:04] <genii-around> kimal73: Yes, that is the list of control modules available. After you decide which one it is you need from the description beside it, you call it by: kcmshell4 NAME   where NAME is the name on the left side
[22:05] <kimal73> oops ok!!!
[22:28] <meho> guten abend an alle! mein virtualbox startet nicht mehr, hat jemand lust /zeit mir zu helfen
[22:28] <meho> ?
[22:28] <ikonia> !de
[22:29] <meho> sorry THX !
[22:32] <ikonia> no problem
[23:23] <aguitel> how to add my user to vboxusers group ?
[23:25] <ikonia> aguitel: open the useradmin gui, add the user
[23:25] <aguitel> ikonia, how to open useradmin in kde ?
[23:25] <aguitel> where is it?
[23:26] <ikonia> now that is a good question, I don't know as I'm not a kde user on a regulgar basis
[23:31] <OerHeks> In Kubuntu, you can do this by going into the KDE Control Center -> System Administration -> User Management and clicking on the button to go into Administrative Mode.
[23:31] <OerHeks> http://patrickteglia.com/blog/virtualbox-ose-kubuntu
[23:31] <aguitel> OerHeks, thanks
[23:43] <bdonato> so, I just recently installed KDE plasma, what's some neat things I should be setting up?
[23:59]  * vandenoever just upgraded to oneric, now the desktop is frozen
[23:59] <vandenoever> some akonadi rss process is doing tons of io


[04:41] <RAOF> duflu: I think you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of memcheck-test :)
[04:44] <duflu> RAOF: Yeah possibly
[04:45]  * duflu goes to find lunch
[04:45] <RAOF> duflu: Does my latest comment help?
[04:46] <duflu> RAOF: Yep
[06:57] <RAOF> Urgh.
[06:58] <RAOF> Why does touch produce weird input events?
[08:15] <anpok> RAOF: weird?
[08:15] <RAOF> anpok: I get weird results when recording/replaying with umockdev.
[08:16] <anpok> oh ok..
[08:17] <RAOF> Which makes "operation refactor how touchscreens work" somewhat less safe... :)
[08:18] <anpok> hm I am cleaning up relative coordinates in motion events
[08:18] <anpok> I hope we dont run into conflicts
[08:27] <RAOF> anpok: Unlikely, I think.
[10:05] <RAOF> Good weekend, everyone!
[10:37] <Saviq> hey folks, any idea about this abort? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7089395/ first time I saw it, it seems to happen (very rarely, like once every 40 runs or so) on unity8 exit under 5.2
[10:51] <alan_g> Saviq: looks like it comes from mia::InputRegistrar::handle_for_channel() - but I don't know why that would be without digging.
[10:52]  * alan_g wishes folks didn't throw exceptions that are not going to be handled. we have abort() for a reason.
[10:52] <Saviq> alan_g, ok, I'll file a bug if/when I get it again
[11:03] <duflu> Good weekend indeed
[11:35] <Saviq> alan_g, FYI: bug #1292472
[11:35] <alan_g> Saviq: ack
[17:25]  * alan_g wonders why his DE just restarted
[17:34] <kdub> alan_g, I usually blame gamma rays


[01:12] <dmcglone> Hi all
[01:12] <canthus13> good morning.
[01:13] <dmcglone> good evening :-)
[01:13]  * dmcglone is watching home alone II
[01:23] <canthus13> dmcglone: That's a bad movie for kids....
[01:28] <dmcglone> it is?
[01:28] <dmcglone> my kids and I love it
[01:28] <dmcglone> :-)
[01:29] <canthus13> gives 'em ideas.
[01:31] <dmcglone> what doesn't?
[01:31] <dmcglone> lol
[02:01] <Unit193> Very late hello dmcglone :D
[02:26] <dmcglone> how do I tell word press to display the code not run it?
[02:27] <dmcglone> I put my code between <code> </code> tags but it's still running the code and not displaying it as text
[02:34] <canthus13> dunno. That's a bug iirc.
 tags work?
[02:57] <dmcglone> I figure it out, I had to replace all the "<" with "&lt" that way wordpress wouldn't think it's code. take a look http://www.dmcentral.net I'll be back in a few.
[02:59] <canthus13> Cheri703: blargh.
[03:04] <Unit193> canthus13: Would you mind at some point telling me how to get SMB/Cifs working in crunchbang? (or are you going to tell me to RTM)
[03:04] <dmcglone> Ok im back
[03:04] <Unit193> Welcome back
[03:04] <dmcglone> don't RTM, RTFM! ;-)
[03:06] <Unit193> Never can seem to get SMB/Cifs working...
[03:07] <Unit193> man dmcglone
[03:07] <Unit193> No manual entry for dmcglone
[03:08] <canthus13> Unit193: Nah. how about "I dunno"?
[03:08]  * canthus13 doesn't use Samba.
[03:08] <canthus13> My network is pure linux, no silly windows crap to cater to.
[03:08] <Unit193> That works... I have silly windows crap to work with....
[03:09] <canthus13> It's common enough that I'd think someone has a howto written up, though. did ou check the crunchbang forums?
[03:10] <Unit193> Not yet... have searched for it when trying to get lubuntu working with it...
[03:10] <dmcglone> Unit193 I'm pretty sure SMB/CIFS works the same in all flavors of linux, so where do you need to start. If my hunch is correct, I would be able to help you
[03:12] <Unit193> dmcglone: I use pcmanfm in lubuntu when I click "Go -> network" I get operation not supported...
[03:14] <dmcglone> do you have samba installed?
[03:14] <Unit193> pyNeighborhood worked in the last version... but they switched to "this" (pyNeighborhood no longer works also)
[03:14] <Unit193> Yes
[03:16] <dmcglone> smbclient?
[03:16] <Unit193> I'll check
[03:19] <Unit193> Yeah, wouldn't it have all the things it needs?
[03:20] <dmcglone> not necessarily
[03:22] <dmcglone> Unit193 did you have this working once before?
[03:22] <Unit193> Lucid Lubuntu...
[03:24] <dmcglone> what are you using now? crunchbang?
[03:24] <Unit193> In the one I can test right now, Maverick Lubuntu
[03:27] <dmcglone> is this the server machine your on or are you trying to connect to a server machine?
[03:28] <Unit193> Lubuntu maverick -> WinXP
[03:29] <Cheri703> canthus13: blarghity blargh, was...away
[03:30] <dmcglone> the xp machine is going to be NTFS
[03:30] <Unit193> yep
[03:30] <Unit193> ntfs-3g?
[03:31] <dmcglone> I was about to say that
[03:31] <canthus13> Cheri703: Any news on the jobfront?
[03:31] <dmcglone> what about ntfsprogs?
[03:31] <dmcglone> and libntfs10
[03:31] <Cheri703> no, that's about me procrastinating and being busy though...
[03:33] <Cheri703> I've decided that before going into details about an arrangement, I'm going to put my non-negotiables out there up front: pay me the bonus they lied about paying me, and no more of this crap about "oh, the corporate bonus means we don't have to pay you"
[03:33] <Cheri703> if they can't do that, then no point discussing further
[03:35] <Unit193> dmcglone: sudo mount.cifs //<IP_ADDRESS>/C /media/test -o user=USERNAME pass=PASS
[03:36] <Unit193> now I just have to remember ALL the names.... :(
[03:38] <canthus13> Cheri703: Good point.
[03:40] <dmcglone> Unit, stick everything in your fstab file and auto mount them when your computer starts
[03:40] <Cheri703> canthus13: I just have to figure out as non-confrontational a way as possible to say: pay me what I'm owed because you're lying liars who lie
[03:40] <canthus13> Heh.
[03:40] <dmcglone> Cheri703: you say: You guys told me you were gonna pay me this, so when will that be?
[03:41] <Unit193> dmcglone: It asks for a pwd when I run the command (and I don't really like to put the pass in plain text...)
[03:41] <dmcglone> thats about as nice as you can get
[03:42] <Cheri703> well, technically they didn't tell ME they were going to pay me. they told corporate they already paid me
[03:42] <dmcglone> Unit193 put the line in your fstab and use a credentials file in ~/ for your username and password
[03:44] <dmcglone> then you say: well you told corporate you were gonna pay me this, any idea when I can expect that?
[03:45] <Cheri703> yeah, we'll see :/
[03:45] <Cheri703> completely random note: microwaves are really expensive...
[03:45] <dmcglone> don't call them out on their lie, just play it dumb like you don't know what they told corp
[03:45] <Cheri703> I haven't bought one in a really long time, and that was used...they're stupid expensive
[03:46] <Cheri703> dmcglone: I was one of the recipients of the email conversation where they explicitly stated "we've paid it and have canceled checks to prove it" which is 100% FALSE
[03:47] <dmcglone> tell them to produce docs from the bank explicitly showing the check was cashed
[03:48] <Cheri703> yeah
[03:48] <dmcglone> My thought, if I had to fight with my employer like that, I'd quit first
[03:49] <Cheri703> well, I've already put in my notice, THEY need ME. they want to work something out
[03:50] <Cheri703> so...I'm going to throw that out first and see if we can establish that as a base, then go forward on details of pay
[03:50] <dmcglone> well in that case, I'd demand the bonus money, no being nice about it
[03:50] <Cheri703> eh, perhaps
[03:50] <dmcglone> Ultimatum, they either pay up or you walk out
[03:51] <dmcglone> simple
[03:51] <dmcglone> don't let em walk on you because they have money
[03:52] <dmcglone> I guarantee if you stand up to them and be a little mean, when it's all said and done, they will respect you better
[03:53] <Cheri703> yeah, that's sort of where I'm leaning, but they also get offended easily if people question them, so I don't want to come off as "greedy" (in their mind), so they'll at least consider it
[03:53] <Cheri703> if I'm too blunt, they might be like, "fine then"
[03:54] <Cheri703> as I told my husband: they're still crazy and everything else, but if we can work out a mutually beneficial legal working arrangement, then the contract can protect me (at least a bit) from the crazy
[03:55] <dmcglone> true, but you have the upper hand here. They need you and they know it
[03:56] <Cheri703> yeah
[03:57] <dmcglone> The healthcare company I'm employeed with couldn't run a business worth worth shit, I've had my run ins with them, but they always realize I am right and they have the utmost respect for me
[03:58] <dmcglone> I've been in home health care way long than they've been in business and they hardly know 2 shits about running a business
[03:58] <dmcglone> of course the owners are russian
[03:59] <dmcglone> You just got to believe in yourself and stand up for yourself
[04:00] <Cheri703> yeah, they were pretty darn shocked that I put in my notice. I've been trying to address this with them for MONTHS
[04:03] <dmcglone> See if they are smart people, they would realize that after all is said and done, even if you give em the ultimatum, you are the type of worker that would stand behind the product you are selling or the company you represent and that is a great thing
[04:04] <dmcglone> but if they are just too stupid to see that you would stand up not only for yourself, but for them too, then your doomed.. ;-)
[04:04] <Cheri703> heh
[04:04] <Cheri703> no, THEY are doomed ;)
[04:06] <dmcglone> lol
[04:07] <dmcglone> Cheri703:  have you seen Matthews website so far?
[04:08] <Cheri703> not since the one time
[04:08] <dmcglone> tell me what you think of this so far. http://buddy.dyndns.biz
[04:08] <dmcglone> oops
[04:09] <dmcglone> http://buddy.dyndns.biz/tri-city
[04:10] <Cheri703> looks good, am clicking through, I think it's "core AERation" though, not "core AREation"
[04:11] <dmcglone> I'll have to fix that
[04:11] <dmcglone> the small empty boxes will contain images pertaining to each category
[04:12] <Cheri703> very nice
[04:12] <dmcglone> and on his "about us" page, his picture will go in that box
[04:12] <dmcglone> I got a lot of loose ends to tie up
[04:13] <Cheri703> I think it is looking good :)
[04:14] <dmcglone> thanks. I hope he like it. I did everything as close as I could to what he wanted
[04:15] <dmcglone> tomorrow I'll start working on his gallery, and change a couple things and it's just about done
[04:18] <dmcglone> well i'm gonna hit the hay
[04:18] <dmcglone> I'll talk to you all tomorrow
[04:18] <dmcglone> g'night all
[04:20] <Cheri703> night
[22:30] <Cheri703> canthus13: blurghy blargh
[22:40] <Unit193> I'm starting to not like networking HP deskjets....
[22:41] <Cheri703> yeah, hp is sucky
[22:41] <Unit193> I get it mostly working... but no dice...grrrr
[22:42] <Cheri703> what's the problem?
[22:43] <Unit193> Win has no logs...  ;D
[23:38] <Cheri703> I kid I kid
[23:39]  * canthus13 has female contact 4 feet away. :P
[23:39] <Cheri703> I know, I'm just kidding
[23:40]  * Cheri703 has male contact in the other room yelling at his computer -_-
[23:40] <canthus13> Heh.
[23:40] <canthus13> Windows will do that to a person.
[23:40] <Cheri703> true


[06:56] <maxpaguru> salve here i am
[07:06] <RockyRoad> !seen mvo
[07:06] <ubot2> I have no seen command
 hello everybody
[07:13] <dholbach>  I just tried calling mvo, to no avail... I hope he's OK still
[07:13] <dholbach>  shall we make this an impromptu Q&A session about Ubuntu Development and Packaging instead?
[07:13] <dholbach>  who's here for the session?
[07:14] <dholbach> don't be shy... raise your hands! :-))
[07:14] <juanje> me! :-)
[07:14]  * micahg is here :)
[07:14]  * juanje hugs dholbach ;-)
[07:15] <ara> o/
[07:15]  * dholbach hugs y'all back :)
[07:16] <mbudde> o/
[07:16] <dholbach> do you have any questions about ubuntu development, about packaging, maybe even a specific problem that you're dealing with at the moment... some general thoughts about how ubuntu development works? anything we could help out with?
[07:16] <maxpaguru> °/
[07:17]  * juanje thinking about....
[07:18] <micahg> I had a build fail on me
[07:18] <micahg> but I think it was because a patch was out of date
[07:18] <dholbach> micahg: do you have a build log somewhere?
[07:18] <micahg> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27434400/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.acidbase_<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1~ppa1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[07:18] <dholbach> let's see
[07:19] <dholbach> yes
[07:19] <dholbach> dpatch  apply-all
[07:19] <dholbach> applying patch 01_default_config to ./ ... ok.
[07:19] <dholbach> applying patch 02_update_external_links to ./ ... failed.
[07:19] <micahg> I didn't check the patches before uploading
[07:19] <dholbach> that's because a patch is out of date
[07:19] <micahg> ok
[07:19] <micahg> I'll look into it another time
[07:19] <dholbach> does everybody know what dpatch is and how it works?
[07:20] <maxpaguru> not so much ;)
[07:20] <dholbach> great :)
[07:20] <juanje> a bit
[07:21] <dholbach> so dpatch is one of the patch systems we use for packaging
[07:21] <dholbach> because we don't use distributed development with a clear history of changes for everything yet
[07:21] <dholbach> it sometimes makes sense to separate out patches
[07:21] <dholbach> so let's say you're packaging a huge piece of upstream software and the software authors do one release every year
[07:22] <dholbach> in that case you might come into a situation where you need to make changes their code or backport fixes
[07:23] <dholbach> it can get very hard to stay on top of what's happening and who changed what if you just apply all changes directly on the source
[07:23] <dholbach> that's why some package maintainers decide to put separate patches (one for every issue) into the debian/patches directory
[07:23] <dholbach> acidbase, as micahg mentioned above, makes use of dpatch
[07:24] <dholbach> 01_default_config seems to make some changes to the default configuration, and applies fine
[07:24] <dholbach> 02_update_external_links unfortunately doesn't
[07:24] <dholbach> the way that dpatch works is quite simple
[07:24] <dholbach> you basically just run:
[07:24] <dholbach>    dpatch-edit-patch 03-new-patch-that-fixes-bug-1234567
[07:25] <dholbach> and it will open a new shell environment, where you can make all kind of changes
[07:25] <dholbach> when you hit Ctrl-D to close the shell, it will create a new file called debian/patches/03-new-patch-that-fixes-bug-1234567.patch
[07:25] <dholbach> that includes the diff of what you just did
[07:25] <dholbach> then you add 03-new-patch-that-fixes-bug-1234567 to debian/patches/00list (for internal housekeeping) and it will automatically get applied during the build
[07:26] <dholbach> does that make sense?
[07:26] <mbudde> Yes it does :)
[07:26] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems#dpatch maybe makes it a bit clearer
[07:26] <RockyRoad> nice tool :)
[07:26] <dholbach> (and has a quick example)
[07:26] <maxpaguru> yes indeed!
[07:27] <dholbach> dpatch apply-all / dpatch unapply-all are useful commands too
[07:27] <dholbach> I hope one day we can get rid of all patch systems when we have full source imports in bzr though and keep track of all the history in there
[07:27] <mbudde> Is there a preferred patch system (dpatch, quilt, ...) or does that depend on the package?
[07:28] <dholbach> mbudde: I think it depends on what the package maintainer likes best
[07:28] <dholbach> quilt seems to be the new black right now, but I really never grew to like it :)
[07:29] <micahg> wow
[07:29] <micahg> dpatch-edit-patch is cool
[07:29] <micahg> it does it all for you :)
[07:29] <dholbach> as nice as patch systems are for housekeeping (backport fix to version A, delete patch file, when version A+1 gets out), a bzr merge <upstream branch> is much more obvious :-)
[07:30] <dholbach> I guess we should have James Westby here as a speaker again, he's the man when it comes to distributed development :)
[07:30] <dholbach> do we have any other questions?
[07:31] <mbudde> I have a problem with a package I'm updating.
[07:31] <micahg> is there a way to set a default key for signing with debuild?
[07:31] <dholbach> micahg: yes, hang on
[07:31] <mbudde> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/27276693/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.purple-plugin-pack_2.5.1-0ubuntu1~ppa3~jaunty_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[07:31] <dholbach> something like this in your .bashrc should do the trick:
[07:31] <dholbach> export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
[07:31] <dholbach> export<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:32] <dholbach> (and make sure that email address is a key id on your gpg key)
[07:32] <micahg> dholbach: I have 2 keys for the one address
[07:32] <micahg> don't ask...
[07:32] <mbudde> I get a whole lot of dpkg-shlibdeps warnings, is there any way to stop that?
[07:32] <mbudde> Or is it a problem at all?
[07:32] <dholbach> micahg: I think you can specify the key id somewhere, but I'd need to look it up
[07:33] <micahg> ok
[07:33] <micahg> I know I can do it on the command line
[07:34] <dholbach> mbudde: that looks more like an upstream problem to me - it might make sense to have a chat with the upstream authors about it
[07:34] <mbudde> Ok :)
[07:34] <dholbach> mbudde: but those warnings are not critical at all
[07:35] <dholbach> there might be something wrong with the linking (sorry, I'm no expert there)
[07:35] <dholbach> do we have any more questions... maybe more general questions?
[07:36] <dholbach> mbudde, micahg: good work - I'm happy you're working on some packaging stuff already
[07:37] <mbudde> It's fun! :)
[07:37] <dholbach> is there anything you'd like me to talk about a bit?
[07:37] <mbudde> What about getting stuff back into debian?
[07:37] <maxpaguru> i'd like to know how to use bugs in LP
[07:38] <dholbach> mbudde: check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Debian/Bugs (there's the 'submittodebian' tool in ubuntu-dev-tools which makes forwarding patches really easy)
[07:39] <micahg> I just started :)
[07:39] <dholbach> mbudde: now is a really good time to forward stuff to debian: we're merging lots and lots of packages right now and if you see a delta that could as well go to debian, forward it
[07:39] <dholbach> maxpaguru: can you elaborate? what kind of bugs?
[07:40] <dholbach> or is there anything in particular that you're wondering about?
[07:41] <maxpaguru> how to handle bugs in general , from where to begin , i'm a very newby;)
[07:41] <dholbach> ok
[07:41] <dholbach> so let's say you found a simple bug that you want to work on and fix it
[07:42] <dholbach> you'd go and download the current source package by running   apt-get source package-you-want-to-fix
[07:42] <dholbach> then you'd make the simple change in the source tree
[07:42] <dholbach> then you'd document it, by running      dch -i
[07:42] <dholbach> you'd add a new changelog entry, properly explain what you did to fix it
[07:43] <dholbach> and add    (LP: #1234567)   to the changelog entry
[07:43] <dholbach> with the bug number of the bug you're working on
[07:43] <dholbach> (ah... before that you'd probably assign the bug to yourself and set the status to 'in progress')
[07:44] <micahg> indeed
[07:44] <dholbach> then you'd run        debuild -S      to regenerate the source package
[07:44] <micahg> dholbach: why not make it a patch?
[07:44] <dholbach> micahg: I'll get to that in a bit
[07:44] <micahg> ok
[07:44] <micahg> :)
[07:44] <dholbach> then you'd test-build the package (you could use pbuilder for that: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto)
[07:44] <MaWaLe> sorry for interferring : where can i find the log of the classroom (i missed it :( )
[07:45] <dholbach> MaWaLe: https://irclogs.ubuntu.com - it gets updated every now and then
[07:45] <MaWaLe> thx dholbach :)
[07:45] <dholbach> also I'll put it up later at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training/Logs
[07:45] <micahg> approx every hour
[07:45] <dholbach> then you'd test the resulting package, make sure the bug is really fixed
[07:46] <maxpaguru> dholbach: Thanks where the tutorial links to that stuff . are there?
[07:46] <dholbach> then you'd run
[07:46] <dholbach>    debdiff package-you-want-to-fix_old-version.dsc package-you-want-to-fix_new-version.dsc > package-you-want-to-fix.debdiff
[07:47] <dholbach> this would generate the full patch (in package-you-want-to-fix.debdiff), that you could attach to the bug report
[07:47] <dholbach> then you'd subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors (if the package is in main/restricted) or ubuntu-universe-sponsors (if it's in universe/multiverse)
[07:47] <dholbach> and somebody will take care of reviewing it and uploading it for you
[07:48] <dholbach> the nice thing about "(LP: #1234567)" is that the bug will automatically gets closed, when the package is accepted
[07:48] <dholbach> the docs for that are available at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/Debdiff
[07:48] <dholbach> AndrewGe1: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[07:49] <dholbach> sorry AndrewGe1 - automatic tab completion
[07:49] <dholbach> maxpaguru: did that make sense so far?
[07:49] <maxpaguru> dholbach: great it's much clearer!
[07:49] <dholbach> awesome!
[07:50] <dholbach> any more questions? :)
[07:50] <juanje> dholbach: so, the better way to fix a bug is with a debdiff? I missed the UDS' session about patches, debdiff, branches and I was wondering which one would be the better way. I usualy try to attach a bzr branch with the fixes so the maintainer can merge the changes
[07:50] <juanje> but I don't know if this is the better way
[07:51] <dholbach> juanje: if the package is in bzr already, the branch is probably the better option
[07:51] <juanje> dholbach: ok
[07:51] <maxpaguru> dholbach: I understand , it's clear i have to follow these steps one by one in detail. tnx so much
[07:52] <juanje> dholbach: and how the changelog should be changed in a debdiff?
[07:52] <dholbach> juanje: in that case, you could do something like:    bzr push --fixes lp:1234567 lp:~juanje/package-you-want-to-fix/my-fix
[07:52] <juanje> dholbach: yeah, make sense, thanks :-)
[07:52] <dholbach> juanje: if you ran   dch -i    before, you added an entry in the changelog, which will turn up in the debdiff file
[07:53] <maxpaguru> where to find bzr tutorial?
[07:53] <dholbach> hang on
[07:53] <juanje> dholbach: yes, but I mean if you write it like you were writting your onw package or as other people (the maintainer) will change it after?
[07:54] <dholbach> maxpaguru: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[07:54] <dholbach> for general bzr use
[07:55] <dholbach> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/Documentation for use in the packaging / ubuntu development context
[07:55] <maxpaguru> ok ;)
[07:56] <dholbach> juanje: I'm not quite sure I understand - can you give me an example?
[07:56] <juanje> maxpaguru: this could be useful as well: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BzrMaintainerHowto
[07:56] <juanje> dholbach: yeah, sorry, I didn't explain myself well....
[07:57] <juanje> dholbach: what I mean is that when you fix some package
[07:57] <juanje> and it's not yours
[07:57] <juanje> do you have to "propose" a changelog?
[07:57] <maxpaguru> juanje: thanks I'll follow all those links!
[07:58] <juanje> or write the changelog as the final one
[07:58] <juanje> ?
[07:58] <dholbach> we don't have the concept of "package maintainer" in Ubuntu
[07:58] <dholbach> so we all maintain all packages as a team
[07:58] <juanje> ummmmm
[07:58] <juanje> ok
[07:58] <juanje> :-)
[07:58] <dholbach> so it definitely helps if you add a changelog entry
[07:58] <juanje> dholbach: but, if you are not MOTU or so?
[07:59] <dholbach> juanje: then you still add a changelog entry and put up the full debdiff (or branch) for review through sponsorship
[07:59] <juanje> ok
[07:59] <juanje> understood :-)
[07:59] <dholbach> perfect
[07:59] <dholbach> it's important that you put a lot of effort into documenting your changes
[07:59] <dholbach> I usually write changelog entries like this:
[08:00] <maxpaguru> Bye everyone I'll see the log later :-)
[08:01] <dholbach>   * src/something.c, src/something.h: remove all occurrences of "frobnicator", changes taken from upstream SVN commit 1542, fixes the build again (LP: #638153)
[08:01] <dholbach> that way people will see: which files you changed, what you changed, why you changed it and that the upstream developers did the same thing, plus you close the current Ubuntu bug
[08:02] <dholbach> it's important we do that, because as I said above: we all maintain packages as a team
[08:02] <juanje> dholbach: I usually write the changes on the bzr log and when I make changelog entry in it, but I had some doubts about if then the maintainer had to rewrite it (also maybe changing the version or so). Actually my doubts were more about the version you put to the changelog entry
[08:02] <dholbach> so the next uploader of the package doesn't have to guess why you did a certain change
[08:02] <dholbach> ... or you won't have to guess your intentions half a year later :)
[08:02] <juanje> dholbach: agree :-)
[08:02] <dholbach> juanje: usually dch -i should do the right thing
[08:02] <juanje> it's very important :-)
[08:02] <juanje> ok
[08:03] <dholbach> juanje: if you add a new changelog entry and run debcommit afterwards, it will use that changelog entry for the bzr commit message :)
[08:03] <dholbach> ...two bird with one stone...
[08:04] <juanje> ummmm
[08:04] <juanje> I swa something about debcommit, but I haven't try yet
[08:04] <dholbach> juanje: you have a question?
[08:04] <dholbach> it's good stuff :)
[08:04] <juanje> I think, I'll try :-)
[08:05] <dholbach> rock on
[08:05] <dholbach> ok... thanks everybody! if you have any more questions, please feel free to join #ubuntu-motu and ask questions there
[08:05] <dholbach> we're happy to help you out!
[08:05] <juanje> dholbach: thanks for all!
[08:05] <juanje> :-)
[08:05] <dholbach> mvo's session will be rescheduled - I'll let you all know about the session in a bit
[08:06] <dholbach> thanks everyone and have a great day!
[08:06] <RockyRoad> thx dholbach :)
[08:06] <mbudde> dholbach, thank you!
[08:07] <dholbach> my pleasure :)
[08:07] <maxpaguru> thanks to dholbach and everyone! :-)
[08:09] <ara> mvo session will be today at 15:00UTC
[08:09] <ara> more details on the planet today :)
[08:09] <juanje> mbudde: do you have some where the code from the package you got the fail?
[08:09] <juanje> ara: thanks :-)
[08:10] <juanje> mbudde: I have some ideas about the warnings I like to confirm. I you don't mind
[08:11] <mbudde> juanje, great! :) You can get the package from my PPA: https://launchpad.net/~mbudde/+archive/ppa
[08:12] <juanje> mbudde: thanks :-) I tell you latter ;-)
[08:13] <mbudde> juanje, if I'm not online please do send me an email
[08:15] <juanje> mbudde: sure ;-)
[08:15] <ricecom> too late.. :(
[08:50] <ricecom> bye
[09:39] <Metralha> This session was too early for me...:(
[10:35]  * MaWaLe is away: brb
[10:37]  * MaWaLe is back (gone 00:01:34)
[12:08] <ia> hello. could you tell me, please - the next classroom about packaging will be in 6:00 UTC pm? or it has been already at 6:00 am?
[12:14] <nhandler> ia: The next packaging training session is at 15:00 UTC today due to a scheduling conflict
[15:59] <mvo_> hello!
[15:59] <mvo> welcome everyone - and sorry that I could not make it this morning
[16:00] <mvo> and a special thanks to dholbach for doing a Q&A
[16:00] <dholbach> mvo: no worries :)
[16:01]  * iulian m00s
[16:01] <mvo> I'm going to talk about how to make package upgrade cleanly
[16:01] <mvo> I will give a overview on the common problems I see when looking at upgrade failure logs
[16:02] <toabctl> hi
[16:02] <mvo> on the bright side: dpkg/apt tend to do pretty well - but if stuff goes wrong recoverying is not a great user experience
[16:02] <mvo> so we should try to make sure that stuff does not get wrong :)
[16:02] <keffie_jayx> o/
[16:02] <mvo> (and improve our tools to deal better with failures)
[16:03] <mvo> if you have any questions or special topics that you would like to talk about, just ask here (or in #ubuntu-classroom-chat)
[16:04] <Rinia> hello everybody
[16:04] <mvo> I prepared some notes, if there are no questions/comments I will just paste a bit into the channel
[16:04] <keffie_jayx> :D
[16:05] <mvo> = How to make packages upgrade cleanly =
[16:05] <mvo> Normal deb packages usually upgrade just fine, dpkg takes care of all the heavy lifting and shuffling of files. The most common source of problem on upgrades are:
[16:05] <mvo> • file overwrite problems (e.g. when a package was split)
[16:05] <mvo> • maintainer script problems
[16:05] <mvo> A general good advise is to keep the amount of code in the maintainer script small and clean. Shell is a language that can be tricky and a failure in the script will make the upgrade abort and gives the user a bad experience.
[16:07] <mvo> the most common source of overwrite problems are caused by package splits
[16:08] <dholbach> mvo: why are package split? does that happen very often? is ther an example? :-)
[16:08] <mvo> but they can also happen if two package just happen to install the same file into the same location. if that can not be avoided (e.g. by changeing the program to look into a different location) the package can not be installed in parallel and should conflict
[16:08] <mvo> for a package split we use a different technique
[16:08] <mvo> dholbach: thanks, I give a example now :)
[16:08] <mvo> == Package splits ==
[16:08] <mvo> If a package foo gets split into two packages like foo and foo-common there needs to be a "Replaces" line in the "foo-common" package. The reason is that on upgrade, the new package "foo-common" may get installed when the old "foo" is still installed. Because the foo-common has files that belong to the old foo dpkg will complain if the proper "Replaces" line is missing.
[16:08] <dholbach> woohoo
[16:09] <mvo> this is pretty common for projects that start out as e.g. update-manager and then later grow new frontends (like udpate-manager-text). then the package typically gets split into update-manager-common, update-manager-gtk, update-manager-text etc
[16:10] <mvo> Example:
[16:10] <mvo>  foo 1.0 is a big package
[16:10] <mvo>  foo 1.1 is split into foo and foo-common
[16:10] <mvo> foo-common now needs a line:
[16:10] <mvo> Replaces: foo (<< 1.1)
[16:10] <mvo> to ensure that if the new foo-common is unpacked before the foo package is upgraded everything still works as expected.
[16:10] <neurobuntu> how does (<< 1.1) differ from (< 1.1) ?
[16:13] <mvo> neurobuntu: the "<" is a older (and now deprecated way) of expressing the same. it used to mean earlier-or-equal
[16:13] <mvo> neurobuntu: but its a bit confusing, this is why "<<" and "<=" etc are now used
[16:13] <mvo> The most common case is something like the following for "foo":
[16:13] <mvo> Depends: foo-data (= ${source:Version})
[16:13] <mvo> This means that dpkg needs to unpack foo-data first before it unpacks the new foo. So without the Replaces line above it will not work.
[16:13] <neurobuntu> ok thanks
[16:14] <mvo> cheers
[16:15] <mvo> any questions on this particular bit (splitting/overwrite problems)?
[16:15] <mvo> I should note that we have a system that can check for file conflicts in the archive, but its currently in the need for some bugfixing
[16:16] <dholbach> what is a good way to test if my packages upgrade well? is  dpkg -i *.deb  good enough?
[16:17] <mvo> dholbach: yes, that is a good way. its a good way of testing before a upload to make sure the current version is installed
[16:17] <mvo> and then install the new package like this
[16:17] <mvo> the good news is that for the common case (package just got some new files/some old files got removed) dpkg will do everything
[16:17] <mvo> and we do not have to worry
[16:18] <mvo> testing is always good, its pretty anoying if a forgoten "fi" in a maintainer script causes problems later :)
[16:18] <mvo> which brings me to the next topic:
[16:18] <mvo> == Maintainer script problems ==
[16:19] <mvo> We have two classes of issues here
[16:19] <mvo> one are "just" bugs
[16:19] <mvo> a forgoten "fi"
[16:19] <mvo> the use of bash syntax (like "==")
[16:20] <mvo> instead of POSIX (which expects "=")
[16:20] <mvo> etc
[16:20] <mvo> (we use dash as /bin/sh so we need to be careful with that, some other distros do not have this problem)
[16:22] <mvo> the other class of problems is that the system is in a flux during a complex upgrade (like a upgrade from 6.06 -> 8.04 :)
[16:22] <dholbach> mvo: what are maintainer scripts? is there a good way to test them? :)
[16:22] <mvo> dholbach: good point, sorry for using jargon :)
[16:22] <dholbach> (I hope everybody else feels free to pester mvo with questions too and it's not just me. :-))
[16:23] <mvo> maintainer scripts are the scripts known as: "prerm, postrm, preinst, postinst"
[16:23] <mvo> they are run as part of the package installation
[16:23] <toabctl> mvo, are they makefiles? or just shellscripts?
[16:23] <mvo> they can contain any shell code and are used for stuff like "ldconfig"
[16:23] <mvo> toabctl: usually shell scripts, some contain perl too (notable stuff that uses debhelper)
[16:24] <neurobuntu> when upgrading a package, are the prerm and postrm run (almost like the old package is removed before the new is installed)?
[16:25] <mvo> neurobuntu: yes they are. I have a example for this in a bit, it can become relatively complex
[16:25] <mvo> a maintaner script may alter the system state in any way, this is why we do not support rollbacks or downgrades in a general way. because it may simply be not possible to undo (or know) what a maintainer script did
[16:25] <mvo> (but that is just a side note :)
[16:26] <dholbach> mvo: is there any way to test them or do I just re-install the package to see if it worked?
[16:26] <mvo> dholbach: they can be tested by running them with the approprate arguments (simulating the way they are called by dpkg). this can be very helpful, especially when run with "sh -x" to see line by line what is actually happening
[16:27] <mvo> I will give a example for this
[16:27] <mvo> Problems here are usually caused by the fact that the system is in a pretty unusual state during a upgrade. Some packages are half-installed, some are not available etc. Maintainer scripts should not make too many assumptions about the system because during a upgrade those may well be wrong. A script should gracefully whenever possible.
[16:27] <mvo> Its useful to know how maintainer scripts get called:
[16:27] <mvo> http://debid.vlsm.org/share/Debian-Doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html has all the details in Section "6.5".
[16:27] <mvo> The way apt works is that it splits the changes into dpkg runs that get called with "--unpack" and then "--configure". On a typical upgrade, this is:
[16:27] <mvo> Unpack:
[16:27] <mvo> •  old-prerm upgrade new-version
[16:27] <mvo> • new-preinst upgrade old-version
[16:27] <mvo> • files from the new package are now in place
[16:27] <mvo> • old-postrm upgrade new-version
[16:27] <mvo> Configure:
[16:27] <mvo> • postinst configure most-recently-configured-version
[16:28] <mvo> neurobuntu: I hope the table below anser the earlier question
[16:28] <neurobuntu> yes it does
[16:28] <mvo> so quite a bit of script that are run :)
[16:28] <mvo> and if something goes wrong, it gets even more complext, if e.g. the old-prerm fails, the new-prm is called
[16:28] <neurobuntu> what is the logic behing running the new preinst and copying the new files before running the old-postrm
[16:28] <mvo> this can be useful when recovering from a mistake in a maitainer script
[16:32] <mvo> neurobuntu: a good question. I currently do not have a good example, generally the postrm is there to do final cleanup
[16:33] <mvo> useful for e.g. update-menu or something similar that updates the debian menu and needs the new menu files to get reliable data
[16:34] <mvo> (not the best example in the world I guess :)
[16:34] <mvo> The time between unpack and configure can be pretty long (on release upgrades) because apt tries to put as much work into a single dpkg run as possible (to speed things up, dpkg invocation is slow).
[16:34] <Rail> FYI, detailed information about maintainer scripts can be found at http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html
[16:36] <mvo> Rail: thanks! especially section 6.6 is interessting here
[16:36] <mvo> This can be tricky if critical functionality relies on the work that is done in configure. A example is python when the symlinks get removed in preinst and re-created in postinst. This means that the package python functionality is not available during a release upgrade (people can not play certain gnome-games ;) Its also common for daemons that stop in preinst and start again in postinst). Often this is unavoidable, but it should be kept
[16:36] <mvo>  in mind when thinking about the package maintainer scripts.
[16:37] <mvo> generally I would recommend writing small and simple maintainer scripts if at all possible, the less complexity the less likely are bugs :)
[16:38] <dholbach> mvo: is there a way to avoid maintainer scripts easily?
[16:38] <mvo> debhelper takes care of a lot of this
[16:38] <mvo> e.g. the ldconfig scripts are all auto generated
[16:39] <mvo> or the python magic
[16:39] <mvo> or init stuff
[16:39] <dholbach> or is there a way around having to write (really good) shell scripts? :)
[16:39] <mvo> and thats good, auto-generated code is nice because it needs to be fixed only in one place if a errorr is found
[16:40] <mvo> another new development is the increased use of triggers
[16:40] <neurobuntu> triggers?
[16:40] <mvo> triggers are a way to express a interessted in a certain directory for example
[16:41] <mvo> its a relatively new concept
[16:41] <neurobuntu> ok i'll be sure to read up on them
[16:41] <mvo> a package like e.g. "man-db" tells dpkg that its interessed in changes in /usr/share/man
[16:41] <mvo> and everytime a file is installed there, dpkg will notice that and mark the trigger as pending
[16:42] <mvo> then dpkg will run the pending triggers at the end
[16:42] <mvo> (or when needed)
[16:42] <mvo> so it runs the man-db.postinst with "triggered" as argument
[16:42] <mvo> and the man-db package then processes the new man-pages and builds a db from them
[16:43] <neurobuntu> so man-db says its interested in /usr/share/man I install package foo which installs /usr/shar/man/foo.man and then dpkg runs the man-db.postinst?
[16:43] <mvo> this is a very useful concept because it means that mandb can be run when everything else got installed (needs to be run only once)
[16:43] <mvo> neurobuntu: yes
[16:43] <neurobuntu> wow thats really slick!
[16:44] <mvo> neurobuntu: re "configure" (from #ubuntu-classroom-chat")
[16:45] <mvo> the configure here is something different, it just shares the same name with the autotools configure
[16:45] <mvo> dpkg roughtly splits a package into "unpacked" and "configured"
[16:45] <mvo> unpack means the files are in place
[16:45] <mvo> configured means that the package is actually usable
[16:45] <mvo> the switches are "dpkg --unpack $long_list_of_packages"
[16:46] <mvo> and dpkg --configure $long_list_of_packages"
[16:46] <mvo> in a way, this is a performance optimization to avoid having to call dpkg too often
[16:47] <mvo> each time dpkg is run it builds a (internal) database of all installed files and the relations
[16:47] <mvo> that can be time consuming
[16:47] <mvo> so the less times dpkg needs to be called, the better
[16:47] <neurobuntu> ok that makes sense...  forgive me if you answered this earlier but after the files are in place (dpkg --unpack),  preinst gets run?
[16:48] <neurobuntu> or are all the preinst scripts run before the unpack happens and then all the postinst scripts are run?
[16:49] <mvo> neurobuntu: the preinst script gets run before the new files are in place. this can cause bugs, we had a package that tried to start a daemon in preinst, but the daemon was not on disk yet, so the package was not installable (or rather, installed, but always gave a error message)
[16:49] <mvo> ia: thanks for your question - this is a tricky one
[16:50] <neurobuntu> ok thanks
[16:50] <neurobuntu> this is making sense
[16:50] <mvo> ia: the python problem we had were hard to reproduce because the system is in so much of a flux during a upgrade. its tricky to get this right. in my experience jaunty-final did pretty well and the cases of failure were rare
[16:50] <mvo> but its a good example why complexity in maintainer scripts is generally something that may not work so well
[16:51] <mvo> because its hard to predict the environment in which the script is run, that may depend on the installed packages on the system that is upgraded etc
[16:51] <mvo> very hard to reproduce
[16:52] <mvo> what we can  do now is upgrade-testing on real HW
[16:52] <mvo> there is a update-manager --sandbox switch
[16:52] <mvo> for jaunty->karmic upgrades
[16:53] <mvo> that will perform a upgrade into a writeable filesystem snapshot in /tmp - but it keeps the real system unchanged (or rather, restores it on the next reboot)
[16:53] <mvo> this is quite useful to test real world upgrades
[16:53] <mvo> chroots (e.g. pbuilder login) or other tests are useful too
[16:54] <mvo> we plan to have a auto-upgrade-tester package for karmic that can be used to test system upgrades of any given input packages, lets see how this goes :)
[16:54] <mvo> I guess the summary is: the best way for us (as a distro) to ensure clean upgrades is lots of testing (on a wide range of setups)
[16:55] <mvo> for the maintainer: write good, clean, small maintainer scripts :)
[16:56] <ia> mvo: ok, thanks :-)
[16:56] <mvo> (for the specific python problem we plan to change the way the python packages are done to invlove a little bit less magic :)
[16:56] <mvo> for karmic
[16:57] <neurobuntu> mvo thanks this has been really helpful
[16:58] <mvo> thanks for comming and listening!
[16:58] <mvo> and asking good questions of course :)
[17:00] <mvo> ia: the auto-upgrade-tester is a project that can perform a full upgrade in a virtual environment
[17:00] <mvo> it can use chroot, kvm and ec2 (the later is still a bit experimental)
[17:00] <mvo> kvm is really the most useful one
[17:01] <mvo> you give it a base image that can be any kvm image (e..g build via ubuntu-vm-builder) and then it will perform a release upgrade from the installed version of ubuntu to the next using update-manager in a non-interactive session
[17:01] <mvo> that takes ~1h on my realatively slow system
[17:02] <mvo> after that I can see if the given image upgrades cleanly or if there are issues
[17:02] <mvo> its very useful as a QA tool
[17:02] <mvo> its currently only available via bzr, but we want to package it
[17:02] <mvo> so that everyone can test and play with it
[17:03] <mvo> the base-image is not touched, so when a failure happen a fix can be tested as well with it
[17:04] <mvo> e.g. when python-foo does not upgrade cleanly (but only in a complex dist-upgrade), a fix can be uploaded to a test PPA and the upgrade can be pointed to that PPA to test if the fix is really good
[17:04] <mvo> does that answer the question? or should I expand on a particular are more?
[17:04] <mvo> area
[17:05] <ia> mvo: yep, thanks for answer :-)
[17:05] <mvo> :)
[17:10] <mvo> if there are no further question I say thanks for comming and have a good day
[17:10] <Rail> mvo: thank you
[17:10] <Rail> and others for questions
[17:27] <Rail>  /close