[00:43] <GTswagger> bac: billfarrow: bladernr_: BugeyeD: coxn: holstein: IsharaComix: jack_: jack_^: jeffrash: lovelace: _marx_ mhall119: Nivex: ping
[00:43] <GTswagger> Sorry to ping everybody but I'm looking for people willing to give talks at UbuCon at the SouthEast LinuxFest.
[00:43] <GTswagger> Anybody here game?
[00:43] <bladernr_> ummm... pong?
[00:44] <bladernr_> the what at the where?
[00:44] <bladernr_> :-)
[00:44] <_marx_> dang self
[00:44] <GTswagger> There's an UbuCon on Fri and Sun at the 2011 SouthEast LinuxFest.
[00:44] <GTswagger> And due to some unforseen circumstances, at this time if I can't fill it we're pulling the plug.
[00:45] <GTswagger> And I reallllllly don't want to do that this late.
[00:45] <GTswagger> SELF 2011 is June 10th-12th.
[00:45] <_marx_> oh gee
[00:45] <GTswagger> So there's an UbuCon on Fri the 10th and Sun the 12th.
[00:45]  * _marx_ checking calendar
[00:45] <GTswagger> Anybody able to give a talk or recommend somebody who can?
[00:45] <_marx_> i made the first one, missed the second one
[00:46] <bladernr_> so how much of it IS filled?  And I really don't know if there's much I can talk about. :/
[00:46] <bladernr_> akgraner would be an excellent talk!  She should give and extended talk on not trolling that she gave at UDS :-)
[00:46] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  Right now?  One Sunday talk.  But I just started looking.
[00:47] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  akgraner cannot make it due to personal reasons.
[00:47] <_marx_> blown knee at least
[00:47] <GTswagger> Pretty much.
[00:47] <jack_^> GTswagger, is that the one in NC?
[00:47] <jack_^> eeh SC*
[00:47] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  ugh... this close to an event... that's not cool.
[00:48] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  Sorry, it's beyond SELF's control.
[00:48]  * _marx_ goes to ping tarvid in va
[00:48] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  oh no worries. I am just feeling your pain is all... I've been in similar situations before, so I completely sympathize
[00:49] <_marx_> bladernr_: aren't you a hardware tester?
[00:49] <bladernr_> _marx_:  yeah... but I don't know that I could do any sort of interesting talk... maybe.
[00:49] <bladernr_> Oh... actually, maybe I do.
[00:50] <jack_^> you talking about pulling the plug on jus the ubucon?  i have a buddy who does a music production in linux talk. he switches it up between fedora and ubuntu. maybe he'd be game.
[00:50] <bladernr_> crud... GTswagger ping me tomorrow... I may actually have something useful.
[00:50] <GTswagger> jack_^:  Yea, just the UbuCon ... and I'd love that talk.
[00:50] <GTswagger> <--- SELF's Speaker Coordinator
[00:50] <jack_^> yeah its pretty impressive. where is SELF? is it in SC again this year?
[00:50] <GTswagger> Spartanburg, SC Marriott
[00:51] <bladernr_> We're doing something new for Oneiric that we really want to see take off: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly
[00:51] <bladernr_> We == Canonical Hardware Certification
[00:51] <jack_^> GTswagger, do you frequent freenode? I'll give your irc nick so he can message you if interested.
[00:51] <_marx_> ah
[00:51] <mhall119> GTswagger: at this point I'm not sure if I'll be there, otherwise I'd say yes
[00:53] <mhall119> when is self?
[00:53] <_marx_> soon
[00:53] <GTswagger> June 10-12.
[00:53] <mhall119> :(
[00:53] <GTswagger> jack_^:  I'm always in #southeastlinuxfest
[00:53] <mhall119> yeah, that's only like 2 days after school lets out
[00:53] <jack_^> w0rd
[00:54] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  because I'm too lazy to dig through the website right now, is there an attendance fee and do you know if they still have rooms at the venue?
[00:54] <mhall119> I still need to get new tires for my camper and get the A/C fixed before I do any traveling
[00:55] <mhall119> sorry GTswagger
[00:55] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  SELF costs $0 to attend, there are still rooms but we've already expanded our block 4 times and the hotel is near capacity.
[00:55] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  heh... nice (that sounds like what happens at UDS)
[00:56] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  ok, like I said, ping me tomorrow afternoon some time.  I'll see what I can do, if you'd like a talk about Ubuntu Friendly.  It was just announced at UDS, so there is NOTHING in the way of info beyond the blueprints and brief wiki at the moment.
[00:56]  * _marx_ starts plotting gta there but gta back...
[00:57] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  Will do ... and don't feel shy about taking more than one slot.  :)
[00:59] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  meh... not sure I'd have anything more interesting to talk about (or even remotely close to as interesting).  Who cares about hardware certification? :/
[00:59] <bladernr_> heh
[00:59] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  how long are the slots?
[00:59] <GTswagger> One hour.
[00:59] <GTswagger> precisely.
[01:01] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  cool... You may also want to try pinging JFo I don't know if he ever comes in here, but he works on the kernel team and does some good talks as well.  He usually hangs out in #ubuntu-kernel and lives near Asheville, NC so it wouldn't be a stretch for him either.
[01:03] <GTswagger> bladernr_:  I tried him first. :)
[01:03] <GTswagger> He won't be in town it would appear.
[01:03] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  ahhh... so we're all just the backup plan ?? :(
[01:03] <bladernr_> GTswagger:  ^^^ just kidding ;-)
[01:04] <GTswagger> :)
[01:04] <bladernr_> Honestly, I am pretty sure I will still be in town.  I dont "think" I have anything pressing until the end of the month.  Anyway, I need to go eat dinner...
[01:04] <bladernr_> Cheers
[12:25] <BugeyeD> GTswagger: i'm all booked through and past self (i'll be at self, just no time to prepare for a talk). i'm a do'er and not a talk'er anyway, and have stage fright - so we'd prolly have to pressure wash the stage afterward if i were to get up there in the first place ... :)
[12:26] <BugeyeD> unfortunate news, for sure. i've never been to an ubucon before, either. i haven't missed a self though.
[12:26] <BugeyeD> so thanks for what you do.
[18:58] <GTswagger> BugeyeD:  I can provide a pressure washer ... no problem ... when can I pencil you in for?  :)


[02:27] <kdub> i'd guess it means day 15000 since jan 1, 1970
[02:28] <kdub> i've heard worse excuses to drink O:)
[15:05] <jamie> morning
[15:05] <jamie_> morning
[16:20] <nhaines> jamie_: good morning.
[16:24] <jamie_> morning nhaines
[19:11] <MarkDude> DarkwingDuck, you have any ideas on planning a SoCal geeknic yet? Can we get nhaines involved- that would be cool. Anyone else down south interested?
[19:12]  * MarkDude says lets get some ideas- then take it to the ML
[19:12] <MarkDude> And have a plan for Scale
[20:14] <MarkDude> jedahan, I forgot about his calendar- it has all sorts of events that might be good
[20:14] <MarkDude> http://calendars.techvenue.com/cgi-bin/techvenue.pl?CalendarName=USValley
[20:22] <MarkDude> jedahan, Feb 19th- good event - http://superhappydevhouse.org/w/page/16345504/FrontPage
[20:37] <seidos> hey MarkDude, what would it take to turn a mediabox into a kind of console system?
[21:36] <jledbetter> MarkDude, That looks awesome. Have you been?
[21:38] <MarkDude> Not to devhouse yet
[21:38] <MarkDude> lots of cool people I know there tho
[21:38] <jledbetter> Nice. :)
[21:38] <MarkDude> that tech venue calendar has all sorts of cool stuff on it
[21:38] <MarkDude> Ubuntu Hours should be there as well
[21:39] <MarkDude> IMHO
[21:39] <MarkDude> There is a cool social media thing in SJ tonight
[21:39] <MarkDude> SM for change or sumthin
[21:39] <pleia2> I always forget to add them to the bay area linux events calendar
[21:40] <jledbetter> TechVenue - Embody your healing? What in the world.
[21:40] <MarkDude> pleia2, there is no one to yell at folks with the TV calnedar ;)
[21:40] <MarkDude> 10% of stuff there is crap - at least
[21:41] <jledbetter> This is so hard to read.
[21:41] <MarkDude> right click- open in new window- the way it is laid out - is funky
[21:42] <seidos> multiplayer cake mania ^_^
[21:42] <MarkDude> seidos, what sort of console were you thinkin' of doin'?
[21:43] <seidos> MarkDude, none.  no $ for the hardware.
[21:43] <seidos> well, i suppose i could buy one...hmmmm
[21:43] <seidos> i would need to get the console and then at least 2 controllers.
[21:43]  * MarkDude did not know if you meant console gaing
[21:43] <MarkDude> gaming
[21:43] <seidos> i wonder if xbox controllers could be used to work.
[21:44] <seidos> MarkDude, yeah, console gaming.  sorry.  what other kinds of consoles are there?
[21:44] <MarkDude> yes- I think they can be modded
[21:44]  * MarkDude has also heard folks say console in relation to TV also
[21:44] <seidos> so, can i set up a mediabox as a nintendo gaming console?
[21:44] <seidos> ohhhh
[21:44] <seidos> i've never heard that one
[21:45] <MarkDude> Dude, you  can set up a P2 for doing that
[21:45] <MarkDude> SNES
[21:45] <MarkDude> in the repos
[21:45] <MarkDude> if it is very old hardware- use puppy linux
[21:45] <seidos> yeah, i have an old dell system
[21:45] <seidos> it only has 130mb of ram
[21:46] <MarkDude> spend your $ on a contraoller or 2
[21:46] <seidos> i should play with it when i get back home
[21:46] <seidos> well, i was thinking more in terms of marketing
[21:46] <MarkDude> Puppy- try the Arcade version
[21:46] <seidos> profitability
[21:46] <MarkDude> legalities with that area tho
[21:46] <seidos> there isn't a killer app though
[21:46] <seidos> but i was thinking if there was a killer app, like multiplayer cake mania or something
[21:46] <MarkDude> owning roms requires the cartridge
[21:47] <seidos> a foss version that is, then the mediabox would sell more
[21:47] <MarkDude> technically that is ;)
[21:47] <seidos> i'll see what i can do on my own
[21:47]  * MarkDude wanted to do that a while ago- could not - so I need folks to donate old games
[21:47] <seidos> it sounds like a software problem, and price point problem
[21:48] <seidos> MarkDude, it depends what you mean by "owning"
[21:48]  * MarkDude puts hands in pockets, looks up
[21:49] <MarkDude> and starts whistling
[21:51] <seidos> i think you just "owned" me
[21:56]  * MarkDude is the PR person for non-profits
[21:56] <MarkDude> plausible deniability is very important
[21:56] <MarkDude> :D
[21:56] <seidos> ^_^


[10:40] <Blohsh> oerheks, Hi there, PSAD is for incoming but we got issue of outgoing port scans problem
[10:42] <lotuspsychje> Blohsh: mayve scan your whole system with lynis, see if you can find any troubles from inside
[10:42] <lotuspsychje> !info lynis
[10:47] <Blohsh> lotuspsychje, users abuse port 80 and 443, blocking it is making things worse like wget, ping and api not working.
[10:48] <Blohsh> https://i.imgur.com/DpAdQMF.png
[13:39] <teward> Blohsh: this is where you start auditing what processes are running, lock down access to the server, and run things like lynis to identify irregularities.  and consider nuking and rebuilding from scratch.
[14:07] <lotuspsychje> +1 teward
[14:09] <Blohsh> teward, it is a dedicated server used for providing nat vps
[14:10] <teward> and?
[14:10] <Blohsh> "nuking and rebuilding"
[14:10] <Blohsh> will remove all servers?
[14:11] <teward> so your system runs many VPSes is what you are saying and they are nat'd through this box?
[14:11] <Blohsh> yup
[14:12] <teward> then its time for you as an MSP (managed service provider) to audit all then VPSes and ID which one is doing the port scanning and terminate the services for ToS violation
[14:12] <teward> the same investigative process applies regardless of the server use case
[14:12] <Blohsh> that is the problem we are unable to identify which user is doing that.
[14:13] <teward> so its time to start logging network traffic
[14:13] <teward> and then id trends that correspond to the abuse reports
[14:14] <teward> if no users trigger any notices and lynis on the host reports nothing unusual then you have a larger problem on your hands
[14:14] <teward> one that this channel wont be able to help solve
[14:15] <teward> the problem of network auditing is NOT a new one.  and things like ptrg and such *can* be set on the internal network to detect scans - incoming to host gateway port before being nat'd out is an 'incoming' sca
[14:15] <teward> psad* too
[14:15] <teward> *yawns, then seeks coffee*
[14:16] <Blohsh> teward, psad is for incoming not outgoing
[14:17] <Blohsh> the problem i have is of outgoing
[14:17] <teward> incoming and outgoing is relative
[14:17] <teward> to the directionality of the network port
[14:17] <Blohsh> outgoing makes server locked
[14:18] <teward> i need coffee if i am going to continue this conversation back in a few
[14:19] <Blohsh> teward, https://i.imgur.com/DpAdQMF.png
[14:21] <teward> Blohsh: start then by explaining the networn setup on $HOST.  Are your VPSes directly bridged to the internet uplink or do they have separate private IP mappings internally?
[14:21] <teward> Blohsh: i dont care for hetzners logs right noe
[14:22] <teward> heads up i do network security for a living so this kind of thing is something i encounter regularly and havr advanced experience on so unless i ask for hetzners logs which you already posted previously i dont need them
[14:37] <ahasenack> rbasak: I'm doing an nfs-utils SRU for another bug, and was wondering if I should include this fix with it: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/1980095
[14:37] <ahasenack> wdyt?
[14:38] <ahasenack> I'll also ask security, but they will probably say "yes" :)
[14:43] <teward> Blohsh: also keep in mind I do MSP stuff as well - I run servers for clients on VMs with mappings for /28s inbound and outbound - I have one public IP assigned to each internal system when it goes out the door, dedicated for those specific VMs.  Along with network traffic logs, I can ID what a system is doing and isn't doing at a glance.  If your system has only one IP and numerous internal IPs then I don't know how you're doing VPS.
[14:43] <teward> Blohsh: if you're doing multiple public IPs to multiple VPSes internally then you should ideally have a 1:1 mapping of public IP to VPS
[14:44] <teward> and that's how you ID traffic behavior for a specific user
[14:44] <teward> if you're not doing that you need to adapt and configure your system accordingly - and `psad` is for 'incoming' scans, but if the VPSes have to talk to the Gateway (your main server first) before going out the door then you configure the iptables, etc. logs properly so that traffic from the *internal* interface at your gateway gets pointed at psad, and then psad sees 'incoming' traffic on that port and then can ID scans.
[16:38] <rbasak> ahasenack: remind me which bug you were talking about updating the apparmor profile for please? Because bug 1703821 is in the queue for Bionic.
[16:40] <ahasenack> rbasak: that's not the one we were talking about
[16:40] <ahasenack> ah, you mean to add the fix to this one
[16:40] <rbasak> Was your case for Bionic?
[16:41] <ahasenack> checking
[16:41] <ahasenack> rbasak: no, jammy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/samba/+bug/1979879
[16:41] <rbasak> OK so no benefit in merging them.
[16:41] <ahasenack> and jammy only, yeah
[16:43] <rbasak> This one's in complain mode only AIUI
[16:45] <ahasenack> the one I linked? Yes, after you install apparmor-profiles, you get samba in complain mode, so no failures, just log noise
[16:49] <rbasak> This one too I think. I've asked for further justification in the log.
[16:49] <rbasak> in the bug


[05:42] <LaserJock> beuno: just the man I wanted to see
[05:43] <beuno> LaserJock: hey  :D
[05:44] <LaserJock> beuno: do you mind if I "tweak" your Ubucon-de story?
[05:44] <beuno> LaserJock: au contraire, I would greatly appreciate
[05:44] <beuno> it
[05:44] <beuno> I re-wrote what they sent me in a hurry
[05:48] <LaserJock> beuno: done and published
[05:52] <beuno> LaserJock: you tock


[09:34] <zyga> hi
[09:35] <zyga> do I need to assign my 'foo package needed' bug to any particular project or package?
[09:35] <zyga> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1254831
[09:41] <Laney> zyga: no, subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[09:42] <Laney> also it'd be nice to submit it to debian mentors / DPMT
[09:46] <zyga> Laney: actually that situation is changed now
[09:46] <zyga> Laney: I got write access to the shared SVN repo on DPMT
[09:46] <zyga> Laney: and my sid package got a few review iterations now
[09:46] <zyga> Laney: so I guess we want to not go through motu but instead sync it from debian, correct?
[09:47] <Laney> zyga: yes, definitely
[09:47] <Laney> or upload from SVN if you want it in urgently
[09:48] <zyga> Laney: upload from SVN?
[09:49] <zyga> Laney: I'm doing one more modification to include the man page and I'll upload it to svn
[09:50] <Laney> yes, like take a snapshot
[09:50] <Laney> but I think they're quite fast at sponsoring / reviewing over in DPMT usually so that probably won't be necessary
[09:51] <zyga> Laney: I didn't understand what you mean by 'upload *from* svn'? upload to where? ubuntu?
[09:51] <Laney> yes
[09:51] <zyga> ah
[09:51] <zyga> I didn't know that is possible, I'm still quite new to this process
[09:52] <Laney> well, you just build a source package out of the VCS and give it the right version number to upload to Ubuntu
[09:52] <zyga> Laney: assuming it gets into the debian svn today, how long will it take it for the package to migrate to ubuntu?
[09:52] <zyga> Laney: (I also prepared 14.04 specific package with ubuntu1 suffix and different standards-version
[09:52] <Laney> <time in NEW> + 1 day-ish
[09:53] <zyga> Laney: new is 2 weeks?
[09:53] <zyga> Laney: and subsequent releases after that? we're likely to release the package and update it in debian bi-weekly
[09:53] <Laney> not sure what they're looking at atm
[09:53] <zyga> ah
[09:53] <Laney> yeah, a few hours to a day - not long
[09:53] <zyga> Laney: ok, this sounds great
[09:53] <Laney> after debian import freeze you need to request the syncs yourself though
[09:54] <zyga> Laney: what about standards version mismatch? will we sync to get 3.9.5 in trusty?
[09:54] <Laney> zyga: we usually don't bother changing that over Debian
[09:55] <zyga> Laney: ah, so lintian will complain but nothing breaks?
[09:56] <Laney> it's just for information really
[11:50] <vood> Hello, I have next question - what steps should I do, if I want to add my package in ubuntu repo ?
[14:06] <nobuto> I need some love to my backport request here: https://launchpad.net/bugs/1252729 It would be appreciated if someone takes a look.
[15:15] <ockham> hi, i'm currently trying to create a cowbuilder environment (under 13.10, ~/.pbuilderrc here: http://pastebin.com/7qmH3td1) -- which fails with:
[15:15] <ockham> W: Failed to fetch file:/var/cache/archive/saucy/Packages  File not found
[15:15] <ockham> E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[15:15] <ockham> (the latter referring to an earlier line:)
[15:16] <ockham> Err file: saucy/ Packages
[15:16] <ockham>   File not found
[15:16] <ockham> any clue what's going on here?
[23:05] <quidnunc> Backporting packages is always a nightmare: Why am I getting "Dependency is not satisfiable: gyp (>= 0.1~svn1654)" when trying to backport nodejs to precise?
[23:05] <quidnunc> backportpackage -Urbw $PWD nodejs
[23:05] <cjwatson> Because precise doesn't have that version of gyp
[23:05] <cjwatson> $ rmadison -s precise gyp
[23:05] <cjwatson>  gyp | 0.1~svn1031-1 | precise/universe | source, all
[23:06] <quidnunc> cjwatson: Ah, I didn't notice subversion
[23:06] <quidnunc> cjwatson: thanks
[23:06] <quidnunc> and also f*ck
[23:06] <cjwatson> So I guess you'd need to backport gyp as well
[23:06] <quidnunc> sub-version number*
[23:07] <cjwatson> Or figure out how to weaken the dependency, although that's more intrusive for a backport
[23:07] <ari-tczew> quidnunc: you can try to minimize that version in B-D
[23:07] <quidnunc> cjwatson: Always fun going down that rabbit hole
[23:07] <quidnunc> what is B-D
[23:07] <quidnunc> ?
[23:07] <ari-tczew> Build-Depends
[23:07] <cjwatson> And sourceful changes require significantly more review than simple backports
[23:07] <ari-tczew> (see debian/control file)
[23:07] <quidnunc> non-official
[23:08] <quidnunc> ari-tczew: Right, I've never seen that abbreviation
[23:08] <ari-tczew> s/gyp (>= 0.1~svn1654)/gyp
[23:08] <cjwatson> But first check why it's there ...
[23:08] <cjwatson> Versioned relationships generally aren't introduced just for fun
[23:09] <ari-tczew> of course
[23:09] <ari-tczew> then see debian/changelog
[23:10] <ari-tczew> also, I look often for changes in certain files through Bazaar. Might be easier for you, as well.
[23:11] <quidnunc> When running pdebuild I get --> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies. Are those build dependencies on my host or the pbuilder image?
[23:11] <cjwatson> In the chroot
[23:12] <quidnunc> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs dh-buildinfo libv8-3.14-dev (>= 3.7) libc-ares-dev (>= 1.7.5)
[23:13] <quidnunc> Why is it complaining about cdbs?
[23:13] <quidnunc> (Also I said precise but I'm building for raring)
[23:13] <cjwatson> You may not get accurate results as soon as one of your build-deps is uninstallable
[23:13] <cjwatson> In this case, libv8-3.14-dev is only available from saucy on - perhaps try libv8-dev instead?
[23:13] <quidnunc> cjwatson: But at least one of those is the problem right?
[23:13] <cjwatson> (assuming that's sufficient)
[23:14] <cjwatson> Yes, libv8-3.14-dev is the problem
[23:14] <cjwatson> At least that's how it looks from a quick examination of the archive
[23:16] <quidnunc> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: cdbs dh-buildinfo libv8-dev libc-ares-dev
[23:16] <quidnunc> alright I give up
[23:16] <quidnunc> I'll just install from source
[23:17] <cjwatson> Of course it could also be the pbuilder base image being broken or pbuilder just generally being terrible; I don't know, I don't use pbuilder :-)
[23:19] <quidnunc> Dependency hell has made a comeback: Developers can't use system packages for any dev platform (python, ruby, node, haskell) as they have effectively shunned distro packaging in lieu of their own packaging managers and it is very difficult to build system packages.
[23:20] <cjwatson> I've no interest in a philosophical debate on the subject I'm afraid
[23:21] <cjwatson> At least not without beer
[23:23] <quidnunc> just ranting. Worse is better these days


[07:03] <dholbach> jamesh:
[09:33] <huats> Morning evryone
[09:37] <mvo> hey huats!
[09:37] <mvo> hey MacSlow
[09:38] <mvo> and seb128 of course :)
[09:38] <huats> hello mvo and crevette
[09:38] <huats> :)
[09:38] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[09:38] <huats> and of course "the never quitting the chanel" : seb128
[09:38] <huats> !)
[09:39] <huats> morning MacSlow
[09:41] <MacSlow> hey mvo, huats, seb128
[09:52] <lool> seb128: Do you use f-spot from time to time?
[09:53] <lool> It's often hanging when I close it; I was also surprized not to have anything happening when I plugged my camera in on my Ubuntu desktop
[09:53] <lool> (I'm uploading the apport crash ATM)
[09:55] <seb128> lool: yes, I use it to manage my photos
[09:56] <lool> seb128: Does it come up for you when you plug your camera?
[09:56] <seb128> dunno about the nautilus action not happening, I didn't look at it recently
[09:56] <lool> seb128: Does it hang when you try to close it?
[09:56] <seb128> there was a bug about that IIRC
[09:56] <lool> Under Debian, I get a popup to import my photos, but when I chose to, nothing happens...
[09:56] <lool> The new version is really superb though
[09:56] <seb128> debian is likely still using gnome-volume-manager
[09:56] <seb128> where we use nautilus gvfs for those actions
[09:57] <lool> Ah right
[09:57] <lool> NB: my camera does PTP; I don't think it can pretend to be a mass storage device
[09:59] <seb128> that should make no difference to applications using libgphoto
[10:01] <hggdh> do we have a problem on glib? Anyone noticed the number of g_slice_alloc SIGSEGV we have on LP?
[10:01] <seb128> hggdh: not that I know, and no
[10:02] <seb128> is that recent? on what components?
[10:03] <hggdh> seb128: evolution, npviewer.bin, sshfs, gvsd-trash, gvfsd-sftp, nautilus, totem*, gnome-mplayer, file-roller, evince, and so on
[10:05] <hggdh> at least 50 are quite new, with bug #s > 190000
[10:06] <seb128> hggdh: there is 42 titles with this function on launchpad, not an issue I would say
[10:07] <hggdh> seb128, there are also some invalid that were closed for lack of supporting docs...
[10:07] <hggdh> but it was just a question... I started to see that on Evo, and cannot see them as an Evo issue
[10:07] <seb128> hggdh: looking at some example they are different issues
[10:09] <seb128> hggdh: well, I would say that's incorrect memory management bugs and they crash in the allocator
[10:09] <seb128> hggdh: ask for a valgrind log as described on the wiki, that will give better indications
[10:10] <hggdh> seb128 I do agree... the problem is how long it takes for one to be hit, and there is not much of a chance of one running valgrind for hours...
[10:10] <seb128> hggdh: right, so not a lot we can do
[10:10] <hggdh> such is life ;-)
[10:10] <seb128> hggdh: until other indication I tend to thing those are application bugs
[10:11] <seb128> they are usually invalid memory usage
[10:11] <seb128> or using wrong free function
[10:11] <hggdh> seb128 usually I would look at the smack on as appl issues, but then we have a lot of appl issues... I do not remember Gutsy as this
[10:11] <hggdh> s/at the/at them as
[10:12] <seb128> you mean gusty had less crashers?
[10:12] <seb128> I don't think so
[10:12] <hggdh> for g_slice_alloc, yes, AFAICK
[10:12] <seb128> but we had update-notifier buggy and apport was not running until beta or something
[10:12] <hggdh> huh, ok, forgot about that... :-(
[10:13] <seb128> well, that could be glib issue, but we don't have enough informations to lead to this right now
[10:13] <seb128> and I don't have every desktop app crashing every 10 minutes either
[10:13] <seb128> I would have say that it could be a gio issue
[10:13] <seb128> but evolution doesn't use gio yet I think
[10:14] <hggdh> yep. Will keep on monitoring, just in case. I have another SIGSEGV in poll() to look at, anyways
[10:18] <hggdh> seb128: just a comment -- when I started in system programming we had a mitzvah that stated a system library should never fail because of bad input. This is why I raised the issue
[10:20] <seb128> hggdh: was is a bad input?
[10:21] <seb128> hggdh: is doing a 3gigabytes malloc a bad input or just something your system doesn't handle correctly? ;-)
[10:21] <seb128> hggdh: well, anyway those error are not bad input usually, they are things like trying to access a pointer after freeing it
[10:23] <hggdh> seb128 -- yes... but, nevertheless, poll(), and g_slice_alloc(), should not die because of that. This is indeed bad input. If the system does not have 3G to give on a malloc, it should return an error, not die
[10:23] <seb128> right, that was a bad example
[10:23] <seb128> that's likely crashes in malloc you get
[10:23] <seb128> usually the crash is not in malloc
[10:24] <seb128> that's just that when you start accessing freeed memory you get corruption
[10:24] <seb128> and that leads to corrupted stacktrace
[10:24] <seb128> that's not because gdb shockes on malloc or another memory handling function that the crash happened due to it
[10:25] <seb128> s/likely/similar to
[10:25] <hggdh> yes, the price we pay for not having hardware-enforced boundary checks on memory :-( I remember a system I used to work with that had it)
[10:26] <seb128> yeah, might be, but anyway that's out of the glib scope
[10:26] <hggdh> I now agree ;-)
[10:31] <lool> hggdh: This can happen when a new type of objects moves to slices and many apps use g_free instead of g_foo_unref() or whatever
[10:32] <hggdh> lool: thank you -- I do not use them, so I did not know about that. Will check on Evo for that
[10:37] <hggdh> ugh! this will take much longer than I expected, will have to restrict my search... 3916 g_free's, and 1938 g_.*_unref's (evo only, and not counting other variations...) Guess I will have to keep just at the code path that failed...
[10:37] <mvo_> pitti: could you please have a quick look at http://paste.ubuntu.com/5763/ ? I would like to upload that, showed up in gutsy->hardy upgrade testing
[10:38] <pitti> mvo_: to which binary does this apply?
[10:38] <pitti> oh, -dev
[10:38] <pitti> mvo_: sure, no problem
[10:39] <seb128> pitti: if you look at the queue could you accept my gdm file-roller uploads there?
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: was this discussed with Steve, is he aware of it?
[10:40]  * pitti looks at the diff
[10:41] <mvo_> pitti: thans
[10:41] <mvo_> thanks even :)
[10:41]  * pitti hugs mvo_
[10:45] <pitti> seb128: gdm> ah, speedup love?
[10:45] <seb128> pitti: yes
[10:45] <pitti> too bad that we didn't get the improved prefetch thingy into hardy :(
[10:46] <seb128> pitti: no, that was not discussed with Steve, I did work during the weekend but didn't do IRC nor did want to ping him during non work time
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: did anyone else test this version?
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: curious, how much login speedup does it buy you?
[10:47] <pitti> f-roller accepted
[10:49] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[10:50] <seb128> pitti: I don't think so
[10:50] <mvo_> seb128: yeah, what do we look like now with the delayed apt-check ?
[10:50] <pitti> dholbach: FYI, XS-Vcs-Bzr is now called Vcs-Bzr (just saw it in your gnome-user-docs upload)
[10:50] <seb128> with the current hardy and the prefetch my laptop does 19 seconds
[10:51] <seb128> where it was 36 seconds before starting the changes
[10:51] <mvo_> that sounds pretty good to me :)
[10:51]  * mvo_ hugs seb128
[10:51] <pitti> wow
[10:51] <seb128> between we removed deskbar, tracker, you guys delayed jockey and apport-check and there is prefetch now
[10:51] <pitti> apt-check?
[10:51]  * pitti didn't delay apport yet
[10:52] <dholbach> pitti: thanks for letting me know - will bear that in mind next time
[10:52] <pitti> dholbach: any idea why your upload also removes .pot files?
[10:52] <pitti> dholbach: like /user-guide.pot?
[10:53] <pitti> well, it's the only pot file removed in fact
[10:53] <pitti> dholbach: anyway, accepted
[10:53] <mvo_> pitti: thats the part of update-notifier that checks for updates, its quite IO intensive
[10:53] <dholbach> pitti: no idea why it should remove the .pot files
[10:53] <pitti> seb128: ok, still enough time to change/fix/revert, so I'll accept it
[10:54] <mvo_> we look pretty good upgrade wise in my current tests (if anyone is interessted :) main-all from gutsy->hardy works, that is something like ~5000 pkgs at the same time
[10:54] <pitti> wow
[10:54] <pitti> mvo_: anything significant in the /etc diff?
[10:54] <pitti> mvo_: I just recently fixed some bugs which led to broken init scripts on update, etc.
[10:55] <mvo_> pitti: meh, sorry, I haven't generated it for this image, its takes quite a bit to build the reference image
[10:55]  * mvo_ needs to fix that
[10:55] <pitti> mvo_: libgphoto2 accepted
[10:55] <mvo_> great, thanks pitti!
[10:55]  * mvo_ hugs pitti
[10:55] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[10:56] <seb128> pitti: yes, apt-check, sorry ;-)
[10:56]  * pitti takes off the deputy RM hat again and goes back to bug triage
[10:56] <pitti> seb128: apport crash check is done by update-notifier, I don't think that it imposes a lot of overhead
[10:57] <pitti> and it's already delayed a bit
[10:57] <seb128> yeah I noticed
[10:57] <seb128> but it's not a lot of IOs
[10:57] <seb128> right
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: hm, bug 202457
[11:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202457 in gnome-volume-manager "Preferences option for Removeable Drives doesnt control Removeable drives" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202457
[11:18] <pitti> seb128: seems that we shuold rename this menu entry
[11:18] <seb128> indeed
[11:19] <pitti> I'll report it upstream, we shuoldn't have ubuntu specific strings
[11:21] <seb128> right
[11:21] <seb128> upstream didn't change g-v-m yet though
[11:25] <pitti> (done)
[11:25] <pitti> seb128: well, since GNOME did change nautils, the 2.20 upstream release is quite broken in that regard? (double mounting)
[11:25] <pitti> or did they disable nautilus automounting?
[11:26] <seb128> pitti: it's broken I think
[11:26] <seb128> 2.22 you mean, right?
[11:26] <seb128> 2.22.0 is a bit rough on the edges
[11:30] <pitti> mvo_: can you please have a quick look at bug 202548? is it possible to leave postgresql-X.Y installed after upgrade, even if it is in universe?
[11:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202548 in update-manager "Upgrade 7.10 to 8.04 should preserve previous DB data" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202548
[11:38] <pitti> "[Bug 202994] Re: Nautilus opens more pipes than a plumber"
[11:38]  * pitti chuckles
[11:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 202994 in esound "Nautilus opens more pipes than a plumber (dup-of: 183411)" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/202994
[11:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 183411 in esound "libesd leaks pipe file descriptors" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183411
[11:38] <lool> haha
[11:41] <seb128> pitti: any reason this fix didn't make to gutsy-updates by now?
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: nobody followed up with any kind of testing confirmation
[11:42] <seb128> ok
[11:42] <pitti> three people shouting "installed that version, no problems encountered" would be enough
[11:42] <pitti> I'm not that fussed about reproducing the bug and test cases, etc.
[11:42] <pitti> but about "OMG the package miscompiled, and now everything is crashed"
[11:42] <pitti> crashing, even
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: oh, just noticed that nautilus now opens f-spot? or at least, is supposed to?
[11:43] <seb128> well, we have the change in hardy for month, and it's not exactly complicated
[11:43] <seb128> pitti: it's supposed
[11:44]  * pitti ponders dropping g-v-m completely for hardy
[11:44] <pitti> it's an almost useless daemon nowadays
[11:47] <Ng> would stuff like camera photo importing still happen without it?
[11:47] <seb128> Ng: <pitti> seb128: oh, just noticed that nautilus now opens f-spot? or at least, is supposed to?
[11:48] <Ng> oh, yes backscroll. doh ;)
[11:48] <Keybuk> pitti: really?  I thought it still did the HAL event->open program glue?
[11:48] <pitti> sane and f-spot are the only two programs left in g-v-m
[11:48] <pitti> Keybuk: most of it went into nautilus in 2.20 (gvfs)
[11:48] <Keybuk> where has that glue moved to for other things?
[11:48] <Keybuk> ahh
[11:49] <pitti> nautilus doesn't handle scanners, though
[11:49] <pitti> meh, this should really have been thought out much better by upstream for the final release
[11:52] <seb128> pitti: upstream has limited manpower and an huge quantity of things to do there
[11:52] <pitti> right, I understand
[11:52] <pitti> seb128: WDYT, should we add scanners to nautilus and drop g-v-m, or keep gvm for scanners only?
[11:53] <pitti> (or just ignore scanners and have people open xsane/gimp manually?)
[11:53] <pitti> personally I find the xsane popup quite annoying, but that's just me maybe
[12:01] <seb128> pitti: do you think the options which are not used by default are useful to some users?
[12:02] <pitti> seb128: the ones for video cam, web cam, and PDA are, IMHO
[12:03] <pochu> hi all
[12:03] <seb128> pitti: ok, so better to keep it running
[12:22] <mvo_> pitti: sure, I can add postgresql-8.2 to the removal blacklist
[12:22] <pitti> mvo_: that would be great
[12:22] <pitti> mvo_: postgresql-* in general maybe?
[12:22] <pitti> since we'll hit the same problem with every release
[12:22] <pitti> and people upgrading from dapper will upgrade 8.1 to 8.3
[12:24] <mvo_> pitti: sure, that would work too, isn't poststres-* a bit too generic? how many packages do we have that look like that?
[12:26] <pitti> mvo_: that would include the -client, -contrib, -plpython, etc., too
[12:26] <pitti> but in order to not break your existing DBs, you need them, too
[12:27] <mvo_> aha, ok
[12:27] <pitti> mvo_: there might be some extensions, though, I see what you mean
[12:27] <pitti> ah, but not in main
[12:27] <pitti> but if they were, they should be kept, too, IMHO
[12:28] <pitti> mvo_: since they should all depend on the server, removing the server version later will remove the extensions, too
[12:31] <mvo_> pitti: ok, I added it to the blacklist now
[12:38] <gicmo> pedro_: hey there
[12:38] <pedro_> hey gicmo
[12:39] <gicmo> pedro_: about https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/199301
[12:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199301 in gvfs "gvfs-fuse-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_mutex_lock()" [Medium,Triaged]
[12:39] <gicmo> pedro_: that is most likely not a gvfs bug
[12:39] <gicmo> pedro_: its crashing inside fuse
[12:39] <pedro_> gicmo: ok, will re assigned it then, thanks you
[12:39] <gicmo> pedro_: wait a sec
[12:40] <gicmo> pedro_: also http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522944 like a bit like it was the same issue
[12:40] <ubotu> Gnome bug 522944 in gphoto backend "gvfsd-gphoto2 crashed with SIGSEGV in pthread_mutex_lock()" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
[12:40] <gicmo> any chance somebody fucked up libc or pthreads or something in ubuntu?
[12:40] <gicmo> mvo_, pitti?
[12:42] <pedro_> gicmo: does this works for you? bug 203041
[12:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203041 in nautilus "davs:// protocol is not properly supported" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203041
[12:45] <gicmo> pedro_: that is a nautilus issue
[12:45] <gicmo> pedro_: see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522445 and dups
[12:45] <ubotu> Gnome bug 522445 in GIO "connect to server error" [Normal,Resolved: duplicate]
[13:01] <hggdh> by the way, seb128, evolution *is* using gio
[13:05] <seb128> hggdh: to do what?
[13:05] <hggdh> I do not know yet... I just saw it on a bt
[13:06] <hggdh> on e-d-s
[13:09] <hggdh> but I still hope it is not a direct use, searching for it
[14:05] <slytherin> gicmo: dholbach told me to contact you. I was trying to fix evolution-scalix FTBFS. I created patch for configure(.in). But I am not able to solve compilation problems.
[14:06] <gicmo> hey slytherin
[14:06] <gicmo> FTBFS?!
[14:06] <gicmo> ;-)
[14:07] <dholbach> fails to build from source
[14:07] <slytherin> gicmo: The version, <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu2 which was supposed to be rebuild against latest libcamel fails to build
[14:07] <dholbach> bug 193764
[14:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193764 in evolution-scalix "evolution-scalix FTBFS with current evolution" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193764
[14:07] <dholbach> I pinged you about it as I didn't know
[14:08] <dholbach> bug 198733 might be the same problem
[14:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198733 in evolution-scalix "evolution-scalix not installable on hardy (missing libcamel)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/198733
[14:08] <slytherin> gicmo: in fact this was the first time the package was changes in hardy. The last changelog entry is from feisty.
[14:08] <gicmo> ohh, hmm I have stopped using scalix myself and I am not working for them anymore so I wouldnt notice, but lets see what I can do about it
[14:09]  * dholbach hugs gicmo
[14:09]  * gicmo hugs dholbach ;-)
[14:09] <slytherin> gicmo: I will attach my diff.gz tonight to the bug which will at least run configure script without fail and start compilation. You can take it from there. :-)
[14:11] <gicmo> slytherin: thanks
[14:11] <slytherin> gicmo: oops, someone has already attached patch for configure failure. I will check if it is better than me?
[14:12] <gicmo> as long as it picks up the right stuff, I dont care where it is coming from ;-)
[14:23] <seb128> pitti: are you fine doing approvals or should I rather wait for steve?
[16:53] <lool> seb128: Hmm the totem mythtv plugin pulls a lot
[16:53] <lool> seb128: libgmyth, libmysql, mysql-common...
[16:55] <lool> LP #191952
[16:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191952 in gst-plugins-bad0.10 "Remove mysql dependency for LPIA" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191952
[17:07] <seb128> lool: I'm pondering creating a totem-plugins-universe and move things there
[17:08] <lool> seb128: Good idea
[17:09] <seb128> that would allow having bugs about totem not depending on python-gdata for example
[17:09] <seb128> there is quite some plugins which have extra depends or are not really stable
[17:12] <Amaranth> mvo: so is there any hope of getting a new snapshot in before beta? :)
[17:13] <mvo> Amaranth: not really, htat is going to be very difficult. however, if we can point to a number of LP bugs that are fixed with it, the chances will raise dramatically
[17:22] <huats> mvo: hello
[17:22] <huats> mvo: any idea why gnome-commander has not been built in i386 ?
[17:23] <Amaranth> mvo: alright, let me try to make a list here :)
[17:26] <Amaranth> mvo: huge one right here http://bugs.opencompositing.org/show_bug.cgi?id=793
[17:26] <ubotu> bugs.opencompositing.org bug 793 in Core "Impaired UI performance with Firefox in full screen mode (F11)" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[17:29] <Amaranth> basically all the problems with fullscreen apps when using unredirect fullscreen windows seem to be solved
[17:29] <Amaranth> and unredirect fullscreen windows works correctly when the app changes the screen resolution
[17:36] <Amaranth> vuntz: it looks like a recent commit to compiz is going to break how libwnck deals with compiz window decorations
[17:37] <Amaranth> the bit added to libwnck to account for window decorations when moving a window, specifically
[17:37] <Amaranth> http://cgit.compiz-fusion.org/compiz/commit/?id=61f8473ed79d679f0c9dd068340b14ad964dda12
[17:41] <vuntz> Amaranth: hrm
[17:42] <vuntz> Amaranth: I think it's already fixed in libwnck 2.22.0, isn't it?
[17:43] <Amaranth> vuntz: isn't the fix to take window decorations into account before moving?
[17:43] <Amaranth> it seems like this commit to compiz will make libwnck move things too far now
[17:43] <Amaranth> but i haven't tested so i might be wrong
[17:45] <vuntz> Amaranth: there are two kinds of move :-)
[17:45] <vuntz> either with decorations or without decorations
[17:45] <vuntz> we're missing one public API for the one without decorations, though, iirc
[17:46] <vuntz> and the one "with decorations" was broken and has been fixed for 2.22.0
[17:46] <Amaranth> ah
[17:47] <Amaranth> vuntz: don't suppose you got a chance to look at my patch for scrolling on the workspace switcher with compiz :)
[17:48] <vuntz> Amaranth: not yet, but later this week
[17:48] <vuntz> Amaranth: there are 4-5 libwnck patches I want to commit
[18:02] <crevette> Amaranth, you should read that http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gdm/trunk/ChangeLog?revision=6031&view=markup
[18:02] <crevette> at least the first commit :)
[18:03] <Amaranth> neat but that's intrepid stuff
[18:03] <crevette> I don't like the key name
[18:04] <crevette> the name is harcoded, I would have preferred custoim_wm
[18:04] <crevette> custom_wm, or something like thazt
[18:05] <crevette> something which would have more WM agostic
[18:05] <crevette> agnostic
[18:07] <crevette> anyway, time to go back home, see you
[18:19] <mvo> lool: I would like to upload http://paste.ubuntu.com/5786/ - is that ok with you? the "fix" works around a problem in the apt ordering code
[19:12] <lapo> ciao
[19:12] <mvo> Amaranth: what is up with the session plugin? another abi change?
[19:13] <Amaranth> yes :/
[19:13] <Amaranth> maniac redid the mechanism for getting session events
[19:18] <mvo> Amaranth: ok, thanks. I noticed the load of fixes in compiz git, its pretty amazing. I will have a log at the git log but my guess is that we will have a hard time pushing more than specific patches at this point, may get easier after beta again
[20:03] <lool> mvo: But how do we guarantee that people don't install nautilus 2.20 with the new glib?
[20:03] <lool> well << 2.20 rather
[20:03] <mvo> lool: I'm investigating currently, maybe there is a better way
[20:03] <mvo> lool: its a bit of a desperate move from my side :)
[20:04] <lool> mvo: Ack; if you don't find a way, let's do this
[21:44] <alex-weej> is there something that can be done about CPU load drastically affecting audio performance?
[21:44] <alex-weej> since the switch to PulseAudio it's gotten a lot worse
[21:45] <alex-weej> but it was bad even with just ALSA
[21:45] <lool> Check whether you have freq scaling
[21:45] <alex-weej> stuff is underrunning like mad as i run updates
[21:45] <alex-weej> lool: what is that and how do i do it?
[21:46] <lool> alex-weej: Does your CPU frequency change depending on the load?
[21:46] <lool> This might cause audio glitches
[21:46] <alex-weej> i don't think so, it's a Pentium 4
[21:46]  * lool goes to bed now &
[21:46] <alex-weej> ah xorg is eating all my CPU time
[21:47] <alex-weej> christ on a bike
[21:47] <alex-weej> it was the new system monitor graphs eating all my time
[21:50] <seb128> alex-weej: that's a known issue
[21:50] <seb128> alex-weej: likely cairo being slow on your video card or driver
[21:50] <alex-weej> seb128: it's more like it's saturating the server with drawing commands
[21:50] <alex-weej> try resizing it as it draws and it continues servicing old drawing requests for the wrong size
[21:51] <seb128> cairo performances are bad with some drivers
[21:51] <alex-weej> ati here, ftr
[21:52] <seb128> are you use EXA or XAA?
[21:52] <alex-weej> i'm not sure to be honest, but given that the "smooth" scrolling barely works i think we should find a way to disable it for hardy release
[21:52] <alex-weej> most people report that it jerks
[21:53] <seb128> alex-weej: grep for EXA and XAA in you Xorg.0.log
[21:54] <alex-weej> This is a pre-release version of the X server from The X.Org Foundation.
[21:54] <alex-weej> uh...
[21:54] <alex-weej> bug in log viewer :P
[21:54] <alex-weej> XAA
[21:56] <seb128> alex-weej: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4320
[21:56] <ubotu> Freedesktop bug 4320 in Driver/Radeon "Over from xrgb8888 pictures not fast-pathed in XAA" [Normal,Assigned]
[21:56] <alex-weej> Secure Connection Failed
[21:56] <alex-weej> ephy/xulrunner is absolute crap since Fx 2.0 :(
[21:56] <alex-weej> any idea if ephy/webkit is likely to be supported soon?
[21:57] <seb128> alex-weej: not this cycle, webkit is not usuable yet
[21:57] <seb128> alex-weej: you should be able to accept certificates now, no?
[21:57] <alex-weej> i am really pissed off that the design of xulrunner even seems to let any of this stuff seep through
[21:57] <seb128> I copied the firefox on some weeks ago so I didn't notice if that has been fixed yet or not
[21:57] <alex-weej> no obvious way to do it seb
[21:58] <seb128> open the website in firefox
[21:58] <alex-weej> oh right... that doesn't count :P
[21:58] <seb128> and copy cert8.db
[21:59] <alex-weej> there are buttons to do it in Firefox on the chrome page
[22:00] <seb128> yes, epiphany should do the same
[22:00] <seb128> asac should know better about that
[22:04] <alex-weej> speaking of this... has anyone ever expressed any interest in getting a "gnomebuntu-desktop" metapackage made up?
[22:08] <asac> certs is the last important fix we need
[22:08] <seb128> alex-weej: we have ubuntu-desktop
[22:09] <alex-weej> asac: ah, about:config is working now i see :D
[22:09] <asac> gtk
[22:09] <alex-weej> seb128: ubuntu-desktop is a bit of a mish mash though, pidgin over gossip, compiz over metacity, firefox over ephy?
[22:09] <alex-weej> the kubuntu guys get to have kontact, kwin, konq
[22:10] <alex-weej> having a gnomebuntu metapackage at least would be useful for people wishing to use all gnome software
[22:10] <alex-weej> asac: gtk?
[22:10] <asac> good to know
[22:10] <seb128> alex-weej: you can install gnome-desktop-environment from universe
[22:13] <alex-weej> asac: ?
[22:24] <calc> isn't there some new gdm gui that is supposed to be in hardy?
[22:24] <calc> or did that not make it in time for this release?
[22:25]  * calc installed fedora 8 yesterday in vmware and thought their gdm was nifty
[22:25] <tedg> calc: It was decided early on to push it to the next release.
[22:25] <calc> tedg: ah ok
[22:25] <calc> tedg: i had forgotten about it until i saw the fedora gdm yesterday
[22:30] <pochu> calc: in fact GNOME 2.22 ships with gdm 2.20 IIRC
[22:32] <calc> pochu: ah, yea that makes sense given what i heard about gdm 2.22
[22:32] <calc> pochu: aiui gdm 2.22 is a complete rewrite
[22:35] <pochu> yes, http://live.gnome.org/GDM/NewDesign has the details
[22:55] <alex-weej> asac: have you noticed that trying to edit properties in about:config doesn't work? i get a dialogue with no text, no window title, and just a text field, ? icon and OK and Cancel (that don't do anything when you click them)
[22:55] <alex-weej> only way to get it to go away is to hit the window X
[22:55] <alex-weej> (and it doesn't actually apply the setting you typed)
[23:17] <seb128> slomo: did you try the new totem youtube thing?
[23:18] <seb128> slomo: bug #203336 seems to be a gstreamer issue
[23:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 203336 in gstreamer0.10 "Youtube plugin don't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203336
[23:18] <slomo> seb128: will test in a few minutes
[23:18] <slomo> seb128: thanks
[23:29] <alex-weej> is VT switching completely broken now in Hardy? last time i checked, consolekit was doing something funky that just took me straight back to my X VT
[23:30] <alex-weej> but now the ctrl+alt+f-keys don't even do anything
[23:32] <Amaranth> works great here
[23:32] <Amaranth> it even mutes sound when you switch away from the VT where sound is playing


[02:07] <LjL> mneptok, you banned some fnord ident?
[02:07] <LjL> they're in -ot, at least i think it's them
[02:10] <LjL> doesn't seem to be saying anything much though, so, ciao
[08:23] <MenZa> !helpwiki is <reply> help.ubuntu.com/community is currently experiencing server issues. These should be fixed shortly; for now, please try to run through these guides manually.
[08:25] <jussi01> MenZa: it works for me...
[08:26] <MenZa> Wait, what?
[08:26] <MenZa> It was out for me for an hour and a half or something like that
[08:26] <MenZa> It's up now
[08:26] <MenZa> I received a server error. wiki.ubuntu.com was also down a while ago
[08:26]  * MenZa shakefists Canonical.
[08:27] <MenZa> Interesting.
[08:27] <jussi01> However, rather than adding a factoid every time something has an issue, Im tempted to have a !currentissues factoid, which allows simple, easy tracking of issues, and makes sure we dont forget about removing $issuesfactoid
[08:28] <MenZa> +1 on that
[08:47] <jussi01> other thoughts on the matter are extremely welcome!
[09:41] <tonyyarusso> jussi01: I like
[10:05] <MenZa> chocolate milk.
[10:06] <MenZa> elky sits as supreme overlord of the channel!
[10:06] <MenZa> overlady?
[10:09] <elky> $deity
[10:18] <MenZa> /query'ing lab about his attitude in #ubuntu
[12:51] <bazhang> 4.60?
[12:53] <ikonia> ?
[12:54] <Pici> ??
[12:54] <jussi01> Guest93713: planning to identify sometime soon? :D
 it is 4:60at my house
[13:23] <bazhang> jimmy_birer ?
[13:29] <jpds> Looks like he's having fun in -classroom.
[13:36] <jussi01> he got bored...
[13:56] <uberspaced> test me
[13:56] <uberspaced> whoops.
[17:35] <genii> It's a cool thing when you have some epiphany like that
[17:36] <genii> Misdirect there :/
[18:18] <LjL> (mentioned this place in ##linux because someone talked about their -read-topic troubles, checking what happens)
[18:18] <ikonia> okey dokey
[18:19] <NemesisD> buhh why am i not allowed to join #ubuntu anymore? i changed my port to 8001
[18:19] <ikonia> NemesisD: hi there
[18:19] <NemesisD> hi
[18:19] <ikonia> lets see what/if we can see the problem is
[18:20] <LjL> NemesisD, did you even read what the bots told you?
[18:20] <ikonia> NemesisD: lets look in #ubuntu-read-topic
[18:20] <LjL> you're allowed to join again now
[18:21] <NemesisD> ok disregard then
[19:04] <Pici> !pocketpc is <reply> For information on transferring files and synchronizing to PocketPC and Windows Mobile devices, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PortableDevices/WindowsMobile
[19:04] <Pici> !windows mobile is <alias> pocketpc
[19:30] <jussi01> !portables | Pici
[19:55] <Pici> jussi01: Feel free to remove/retarget my additions then
[23:15] <Amaranth> !hacker


[21:27] <OsamaMongy> clear
[21:31] <sarhan_> hello OsamaMongy
[21:32] <OsamaMongy> hello omar
[21:32] <OsamaMongy> :)
[21:35] <sarhan_> who is omar?
[21:38] <OsamaMongy> I'm sorry I thougth you are some one else :)
[21:40] <sarhan_> no problem
[21:40] <sarhan_> i am a visitor :D
[21:40] <sarhan_> it's a good channel
[21:49] <OsamaMongy> you are a visittor from egypt or another country ?
[21:50] <EgyParadox> I sm Oar
[21:50] <sarhan> from tunisia but you closed the page :(
[21:50] <EgyParadox> Omar
[21:50] <EgyParadox> sarhan
[21:50] <sarhan> hello EgyParadox !
[21:50] <sarhan> he trougths that i am u :)
[21:50] <EgyParadox> haha
[21:50] <EgyParadox> he left
[21:51] <sarhan> are u friends?
[21:51] <EgyParadox> yes
[21:51] <EgyParadox> he is with us in the team
[21:52] <sarhan> can i join ubuntu-eg ?
[21:54] <EgyParadox> OsamaMongy
[21:54] <EgyParadox> ana 3omar
[21:55] <EgyParadox> :D
[21:55] <EgyParadox> https://launchpad.net/~egyptlocoteam
[21:55] <EgyParadox> :)
[21:55] <OsamaMongy> hehe ezayak ya 3omar
[21:55] <OsamaMongy> ana eftkrt sar7an hwa enta :)
[21:55] <EgyParadox> :)
[21:56] <EgyParadox> https://launchpad.net/~egyptlocoteam/+join
[21:56] <sarhan> esmi sar7an ou t3ayetli omar?
[21:56] <EgyParadox> sarhan
[21:56] <sarhan> EgyParadox, no i am ubuntu-tn member !
[21:57] <EgyParadox> aywa tayeb?
[21:57] <sarhan> EgyParadox, it's a treason to do that
[21:58] <EgyParadox> treason how?
[21:58] <OsamaMongy> welcome sar7an
[21:58] <OsamaMongy> welcome to egypt
[21:58] <sarhan> thx OsamaMongy
[21:59] <OsamaMongy> how is life in tn ?
[21:59] <EgyParadox> joining the team is not a treason what bin ali did is :D
[21:59] <sarhan> OsamaMongy, good with democracy
[21:59] <sarhan> EgyParadox, what mubarek is too :D
[21:59] <sarhan> did*
[21:59] <OsamaMongy> actually they are all treasoners :S
[22:00] <sarhan> OsamaMongy, how is life en egypt?
[22:01] <OsamaMongy> going but slowly


[04:14] <StevenK> Oh, bah. Firefox, why are you hiding the URI schema for http:// URIs? :-(
[04:35] <lifeless> because chrome did it and so its obviously cool.
[04:35] <lifeless> nevermind that it completely messes things up
[04:56] <StevenK> If Firefox is just going to copy Chrome, that's disappointing.
[05:41] <lifeless> oh, I agree.
[05:58] <nigelb> lifeless: <3
[05:58] <nigelb> thanks!
[05:58] <nigelb> StevenK: Speaking of browsers, this might be entertaining - http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lwEG-pIhR3Q/TodEKkigwVI/AAAAAAAACgs/ARfogL6LqXM/s512/msft.jpg
[06:02] <StevenK> nigelb: I saw that
[06:05] <nigelb> :)
[20:59] <lifeless> under one page of mediums left
[21:38] <mwhudson> lifeless: and hey, i just closed two of the bugs you reclassified
[21:52] <lifeless> mwhudson: cool
[21:53] <mwhudson> three!
[21:53] <nigelb> do I hear a four? ;)
[21:53] <lifeless> going once
[21:55] <lifeless> spring cleaning :)
[21:58] <mwhudson> sadly no more yet
[21:59] <nigelb> I think I found the best spring cleaning material in tech-debt.
[21:59] <nigelb> Although fixing one bug = at least 2 to 3 MPs :P
[21:59] <mwhudson> my current launchpad side project is made of tech-debt
[21:59] <lifeless> nigelb: thats more like an attic :) - this is stuff that we have lying around uncategorised ;)
[22:00] <nigelb> lifeless: heh
[22:00] <nigelb> I can see the spiderwebs hang off those bugs :P
[22:01] <lifeless> :)
[23:33] <wallyworld_> wgrant: were you going to look at 863098?
[23:33] <wgrant> Bug #863098
[23:33] <_mup_> Bug #863098: OOPS when retargeting a private bug to a context the user cannot see private bugs by default <404> <bugs> <disclosure> <oops> <Launchpad itself:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/863098 >
[23:34] <wgrant> I wasn't.
[23:34] <wallyworld_> ok. i can
[23:34] <jelmer> hi wallyworld_, wgrant
[23:34] <wgrant> Evening jelmer.
[23:34] <wallyworld_> hello
[23:34] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Thanks.
[23:34] <wallyworld_> np. just wan't to make sure we weren't going to double up
[23:35] <wallyworld_> i hate unity today. had to totally blow alway all my settings to get it to not lock up the desktop
[23:37] <wgrant> wallyworld_: I suspect the solution will be to just subscribe the actor, as we do when making a bug private in the first place.
[23:38] <wallyworld_> wgrant: that would work code wise. is that what we want to do policy wise? i guess so
[23:39] <wgrant> +          xdr: {use: 'flash'},
[23:39] <lifeless> or just set next_url to a different value
[23:39] <wgrant> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[23:39] <lifeless> + add a notification
[23:39] <lifeless> I wouldn't expect the actor to be subscribed; in fact it will be explicitly *against* one of curtis' rules to do that.
[23:40] <lifeless> the rule being 'for "private projects" newly private-in-that-project bugs have no subscriptions other than the default set'
[23:40] <wgrant> Private projects don't exist.
[23:40] <wgrant> So rules around them aren't relevant yet.
[23:41] <wgrant> c-i-p is a default-private-bugs project, where the reporter has a subscription regardless.
[23:41] <lifeless> 'private bugs by default' seems to be your proxy for now
[23:41] <lifeless> wgrant: the reporter is one of the default set of subscriptions
[23:41] <lifeless> wgrant: the triager isn't
[23:41]  * wallyworld_ wonders whether to take the red pill or blue pill
[23:42] <mwhudson> hooray for not landing code until you have a use for it
[23:42] <wgrant> lifeless: But the triager is the one reporting the bug in the "private project".
[23:42] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: you referring to your mp from friday?
[23:42] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: yes
[23:43] <lifeless> wgrant: ahhh, no I'm not :)
[23:43] <lifeless> wgrant: meh, I can see arguments both ways.
[23:43] <wallyworld_> mwhudson:  do you have a specific use case for it now?
[23:43] <lifeless> wgrant: whatever you guys decide, I think it needs documentation if it will increase the visibility of such bugs
[23:44] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: basically, it seems stuffing things in annotations is unpleasant, better to just have an IParticipationExtras interface that separately defines the things we care about
[23:44] <wgrant> lifeless: I feel that all these changes are insane.
[23:44] <wgrant> lifeless: Because they're making an existing confusing and exceptional privacy mechanism even more confusing and exceptional, in a gradual fashion.
[23:44] <wgrant> lifeless: Rather than a one-off change to a sensible one.
[23:44] <mwhudson> wallyworld_: yeah, trying to (only) store the feature flag controller on the participation
[23:45] <lifeless> wgrant: so the goal is a sensible one; I agree that gradual changes can be tricky.
[23:45] <lifeless> wgrant: I wouldn't want to see massive code drops, but I could totally see stuff being feature flagged until all the bits are in place
[23:45] <wallyworld_> mwhudson: +1 for that ff change
[23:45] <wgrant> For stuff like this they're not tricky: they're dangerous.
[23:45] <wgrant> lifeless: Right, that is what I intended from the start. But it seems everyone prefers gradual change :/
[23:45] <wgrant> Normally, sure. But not for something like this.
[23:45] <lifeless> wgrant: talk to your team :)
[23:46] <lifeless> wgrant: FWIW, to me, feature-flagged to ~launchpad isn't gradual change, because only we're affected, and we can deal.
[23:47] <lifeless> wow, our lp-oops install has masssssive cruft in it
[23:47] <lifeless>                                            QUERY PLAN
[23:47] <lifeless> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[23:47] <lifeless>  Seq Scan on oops_oops  (cost=0.00..1991487.27 rows=2772 width=68)
[23:48] <wallyworld_> wgrant: so, what's the consensus? subscribe or redirect with notification?
[23:51] <wgrant> Not sure.
[23:51] <wgrant> But looks like we need to roll back the latest devel rev.
[23:51] <wgrant> It breaks lots of profiling tests, it seems.
[23:51] <wgrant> (and introduces Flash, so getting rid of it is a bonus :))
[23:52] <wallyworld_> flash?
[23:52] <wallyworld_> what for?
[23:52] <wgrant> Bypassing cross-domain request restrictions.
[23:52] <wgrant> I assume.
[23:53] <wallyworld_> you mean someone wrote action script?
[23:53] <wgrant> No.
[23:53] <wgrant> YUI has some Flash embedded.
[23:53] <wgrant> To use as an XHR transport.
[23:53] <wgrant> To violate browser cross-domain request restrictions.
[23:53] <wgrant> Because Flash is more holey.
[23:54] <wallyworld_> i thought flash functionality was implemented using ActionAcript
[23:54] <wallyworld_> ActionScript
[23:54] <wgrant> This is a prebuilt SWF in YUI.
[23:54] <wallyworld_> ok
[23:54] <wallyworld_> yuck
[23:54] <wgrant> Because fuck good practice, let's put proprietary compiled formats in our tarballs :)
[23:54] <lifeless> the 503 page ?
[23:54] <wgrant> lifeless: Yes.


[00:00] <Viper550> I so wanna see ubuntu-themes-ubuntuween
[00:01] <Cimi> _MMA_, I've convinced kwwii after the uds that a dark theme will be the end of ubuntu :)
[00:01] <lukeen> looks like a new version of aurora was just released...
[00:02] <Cimi> maybe slower and bad coded than the previous ;)
[00:02] <Cimi> aurora it's a pain between hacks and dangerous things
[00:02] <_MMA_> I dont think so at all. Dark themes can be done. We've proved that. It came down to Mark not wanting it for some reason. A misscommunication somewhere.
[00:02] <lukeen> guys: what do you think about this icon theme? http://bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/ubuntu-icon-theme/
[00:03] <Cimi> _MMA_, please don't tell me ubuntulooks is a great theme...
[00:03] <Cimi> lukeen, too saturated and child-ish
[00:03] <_MMA_> Where did I say that?
[00:03] <Cimi> We've proved tha
[00:03] <Cimi> t
[00:03] <_MMA_> "Ubuntu Studio"
[00:03] <Cimi> sorry
[00:04] <Cimi> ubuntu studio
[00:04] <Viper550> wow, those icons are hot!
[00:04] <Cimi> imho ubuntustudio is not a *great* black theme
[00:04] <_MMA_> "Dark themes can be done. We've (Ubuntu Studio) proved that."
[00:04] <Cimi> exatly
[00:04] <Cimi> I've said ubuntulooks but i was meaning ubuntustudio
[00:04] <Cimi> sorry
[00:05] <Cimi> it's a way better than nodoka and ubuntu default theme
[00:05] <Viper550> also, I like that cute Firefox icon he also made.
[00:05] <Cimi> but I won't chose it as default
[00:05] <_MMA_> Cimi: Its still widely regarded as the best out there minus some app issues the dont use GTK in standard ways.
[00:05] <Cimi> Viper550, firefox 3 will have a tango theme
[00:05] <Cimi> _MMA_, a lot of guys like the vista-like look
[00:06] <Cimi> I personally don't like it
[00:06] <lukeen> ff3 should look more like the os it is running on
[00:06] <Viper550> so on Linux, Firefox will take on the Gnome icon theme chosen?
[00:06] <Cimi> even if is using my engine :)
[00:06] <Cimi> btw tastes are tastes
[00:06] <_MMA_> blah. The gloss on the Feisty theme was not on purpose. We had that in the works since Vista was Longhorn.
[00:06] <Cimi> Viper550, yes
[00:06] <_MMA_> In Gutsy the gloss is gone.
[00:07] <Viper550> awesome
[00:07] <_MMA_> Hardy will loose it totally.
[00:07] <Cimi> _MMA_, also for panels?
[00:07] <_MMA_> Yes.
[00:07] <lukeen> glossy is outdated i've read...
[00:07] <Cimi> great
[00:07] <_MMA_> http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Screenshot-1.png
[00:09] <_MMA_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
[00:09] <Cimi> _MMA_, much better
[00:09] <Cimi> really
[00:09] <Cimi> in any case
[00:10] <Cimi> the human eye can't switch between a dark background to bright colors
[00:10] <Cimi> i.e. black bg and white base
[00:10] <Cimi> it will lose contrast and sharpness
[00:10] <Cimi> and the eye will be stressed more than it should
[00:10] <lukeen> yes, dark themes just bring to much problems....
[00:10] <_MMA_> troy_s: Wanna handle this one. ^^^
[00:11] <Cimi> _MMA_, for example see LCD panels like Aquos by Sharp (TM)
[00:11] <troy_s> _MMA_: Go for me my brother.
[00:12] <Cimi> there's a technolosy to improve contrast by enlightnening on the side of the tv
[00:12] <Cimi> so the eye will see more contrast
[00:12] <_MMA_> troy_s: Your much more eloquent/knowledgeable on this one.
[00:12] <Viper550> hmm, for Hardy and Ubuntu Studio, I'm gonna try and get them onto Crux
[00:12] <_MMA_> Crux?
[00:13] <Cimi> _MMA_, I've a Pantone huey for my monitor
[00:13] <Cimi> it automatically adjust gamma and color ranges
[00:13] <Cimi> by controlling the ambient light
[00:13] <Viper550> that metalish purple theme
[00:13] <Viper550> it still comes with Gnome after all these years. They even updated it to Cairo
[00:13] <Cimi> Viper550, horrible for my tastes :D
[00:13] <troy_s> _MMA_: What were we talking about?  lol.
[00:14] <Viper550> but for Ubuntu Studio, it looks a bit like a professional editing application theme
[00:14] <_MMA_> Cimi: There's a reason why pro audio/video/photo apps use colors like we do. Or why we copy them rather.
[00:14] <Cimi> _MMA_, a WHOLE dark theme
[00:14] <Cimi> is much better than a light theme
[00:14] <Viper550> but, Crux by default isn't "too dark"
[00:15] <Cimi> as it is much more relaxing
[00:15] <_MMA_> troy_s: "Cimi: the human eye can't switch between a dark background to bright colors. i.e. black bg and white base. it will lose contrast and sharpness. and the eye will be stressed more than it should"
[00:15] <troy_s> _MMA_: If you are aiming to be 'professional' the most 'professionally' close (say to a Nuke / Shake) is Blender in terms of looks.
[00:15] <Cimi> _MMA_, blender
[00:15] <Viper550> Their model are programs like Avid Studio
[00:15] <Cimi> ardour
[00:15] <Cimi> and other apps
[00:15] <Cimi> are TOTALLY black
[00:15] <Cimi> they don't have contrast between BLACK and WHITE
[00:16] <Cimi> i'm saying that the problems in the ubuntustudio theme is just that contrast
[00:16] <Cimi> with is bad for the human eye
[00:16] <troy_s> _MMA_: Any time I see the word 'eyestress' it conjures mythical beliefs.  There has been countless research done that the notions of 'eyestrain' are rubbish when it comes to 'looking'.  Moving the eye around a lot will strain it and actually make it fatigue.  But that is rolling your orbital from one side to the other, not just moving it around a screen say.
[00:16] <Cimi> I've nothing against dak themes
[00:16] <_MMA_> Cimi: I dont agree at all sorry.
[00:16] <troy_s> Cimi: Ardour isn't a professional application though so I would argue that it isn't a wonderful comparison point.
[00:16] <Cimi> _MMA_, maybe you don't have a monitor like mines
[00:17] <Cimi> 1500:1 of contrast
[00:17] <troy_s> Cimi: Perhaps comparing to Nuke or ProTools would be.
[00:17] <Cimi> black/white is a bit harder for me
[00:17] <Cimi> troy_s, I've said for colors
[00:17] <_MMA_> I use this theme for hours on end for over a year. I just need links to back up the "eye strain" thing. ;)
[00:17] <Cimi> a whole dark theme
[00:17] <Cimi> like adobe aperture
[00:17] <troy_s> Its an aesthetic.  And granted aesthetics are volatile grounds for debates, in the end, the whole of the argument is aesthetic and subjective.
[00:18] <Cimi> this is not an aesthetic thing
[00:18] <Cimi> as I've said
[00:18] <Cimi> there are a lot of strumentation (professional)
[00:18] <troy_s> 1500:1 contrast is nothing.
[00:18] <troy_s> CRTs deliver 10x that
[00:19] <Cimi> troy_s, I've a crt too
[00:19] <Cimi> which is more harder to live with ubuntustudio theme
[00:19] <_MMA_> Viper550: Just talk to me here as I am also coordinating the art for Ubuntu Studio here. (or in a PM) I dont sit in #ubuntustudio on the weekends.
[00:19] <Viper550> Okay
[00:19] <Cimi> I was saying
[00:19] <Cimi> there are a lof ot strumentation
[00:20] <Viper550> I was thinking about Crux as their engine since it's underrated, and it's also kinda got that look they want
[00:20] <Cimi> that sets colors and contrast by seeing whole luminance of the area
[00:20] <Cimi> and the ambient light
[00:20] <_MMA_> Viper550: "their" and "they"?
[00:20] <Viper550> they as in ubuntustudio
[00:20] <_MMA_> Viper550: Oh. You dont know. Im the lead on it.
[00:21] <_MMA_> I wrote all the WIKI pages. "C.Kontros"
[00:21] <Cimi> _MMA_, you should fix the colors in the comboboxes
[00:21] <Viper550> Oh, cool. Anyway, Crux does kinda have that "media application" look
[00:21] <Cimi> see the gaim state combobox
[00:21] <Cimi> it has a dark text color
[00:21] <Cimi> should be white I guess
[00:22] <_MMA_> Cimi: I like the black myself but can that be changed?
[00:22] <Cimi> of course
[00:22] <Cimi> in the gtkrc
[00:23] <_MMA_> Cimi: Once .6 is in the repos Ill get with you to look over some of the text colors. I do think some of it can be tweaked.
[00:24] <Cimi> _MMA_, I'm not thinking of releasing 0.6
[00:24] <Cimi> I'd like to wait kwwii directions
[00:25] <_MMA_> Ok. Either way. once it does get in we can look at the Ubuntu Studio text colors then.
[00:25] <Cimi> mmm
[00:25] <Cimi> imho
[00:25] <Cimi> it's just
[00:26] <Cimi> _MMA_, where's the gtkrc?
[00:27] <_MMA_> We'll mess with it later. ;)
[00:27] <Cimi> btw menu_item
[00:27] <Cimi> and fgprelight
[00:27] <Cimi> probably
[00:30]  * _MMA_ stops neglecting his family and shuts the laptop lid. Later guys.
[00:31] <troy_s> Cimi: Being an expert in GTK coding, how easy would it be to create something akin to Mist but with rounded (very slight) corners (somewhere about 3 in Murrine radius)
[00:31] <troy_s> ?
[00:31] <Cimi> you can do this with murrine
[00:31] <troy_s> !?
[00:31] <Cimi> hilight_ratio = 0.909090
[00:31] <Cimi> gradients = FALSE
[00:31] <Cimi> roundness = 3
[00:31] <Cimi> thta's it
[00:31] <troy_s> Cimi: Do you have a screenshot?!
[00:31] <Cimi> troy_s, try it
[00:32] <troy_s> Cimi: Erk... ok...
[00:32] <Cimi> add those options in the engine section of the gtkrc
[00:32] <troy_s> Cimi: That eliminates all of the nasty glossy looks etc?
[00:32] <Cimi> yes
[00:32] <troy_s> Cimi: Keeps it gradient / flat?
[00:32] <troy_s> Wow.
[00:32] <troy_s> How lovely!
[00:32] <Cimi> =)
[00:32] <troy_s> ok ... I'll need to experiment with it.
[00:32] <_MMA_> troy_s: I did this tonight for Ubuntu Studio-Hardy. ;)
[00:32] <troy_s> Awsome work by the way Cimi -- great to see you in here.
[00:33] <troy_s> Mist is a darn strong engine, if it just was a little more 'refined' with antialiased rounded corners etc.
[00:33] <Cimi> murrine is very powerful in that way
[00:33] <Cimi> probably the code is more complicated than clearlooks
[00:34] <Cimi> but you can do a lot of things in customization
[00:34] <troy_s> Cimi: If I can do that, I would be elated...
[00:34] <Cimi> (obviusly it is complicated you've 100 styles in one engine) :D
[00:34] <troy_s> greets luisbg
[00:34] <Cimi> one moment troy_s I try
[00:37] <Cimi> troy_s, 1: http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8996/screenshot1tb5.png
[00:37] <Cimi> just added those 3 options to a theme
[00:38] <troy_s> Cimi: Is there a way to create a highlight line?
[00:38] <Cimi> mmm
[00:38] <troy_s> Cimi: Being a sort of light direction
[00:39] <troy_s> Cimi: If it were a rectangle, the left/top would be lighter than the bottom/right for example.
[00:39] <Cimi> not with roundness = 3
[00:39] <troy_s> Cimi: No roundness it can do it yes?
[00:39] <Cimi> yes
[00:39] <Cimi> if I remember well...
[00:39] <Cimi> not sure
[00:39] <troy_s> Cimi: Is that a tricky code bit to get it with roundness?
[00:39] <_MMA_> troy_s: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/UbuntuStudio-Hardy.tar.gz
[00:39] <troy_s> Cimi: Great wood in the bg by the way
[00:39] <troy_s> _MMA_: What is that?
[00:40] <_MMA_> Tinkering with Hardy's theme.
[00:40] <troy_s> _MMA_: Screenshot?
[00:40] <Cimi> troy_s, http://www.cimitan.com/blog/wp-content/new-gummy-tabs-2.png
[00:40] <_MMA_> No. The theme.
[00:40] <_MMA_> troy_s: just DL and drop in the theme manager.
[00:40] <troy_s> Cimi: Can you turn the tab 'striping' on and off with Murrine (the blue bar in your screenshot)
[00:41] <Cimi> no
[00:41] <Cimi> those two changes
[00:41] <_MMA_> troy_s: I still dont know if it will work with the design direction. I might take the stripes off the menubar.
[00:41] <Cimi> (highlight of buttons and tabs)
[00:41] <Cimi> require changes in the code
[00:41] <Cimi> not buge changes
[00:41] <Cimi> but something
[00:41] <Cimi> *huge
[00:42] <troy_s> Cimi: I am using Glider (nice additions you put in there if I am not mistaken)
[00:42] <troy_s> Cimi: The ONLY thing I would change on glider is a slight rounding of tabs / buttons.
[00:42] <Cimi> I haven't worked with glider
[00:42] <troy_s> That's it, but I don't think it is possible with Murrine, is it?
[00:42] <Cimi> just Clearlooks
[00:42] <Cimi> Gummy
[00:42] <Cimi> GLossy
[00:42] <Cimi> Inverted
[00:43] <Cimi> and Classic
[00:43] <Cimi> and murrine too
[00:43] <troy_s> Glider is absolutely perfect from the aesthetic I am working towards... minus the square corners.
[00:43] <troy_s> I just don't know how hard it would be to twiddle the engine into supporting radius.
[00:43] <_MMA_> troy_s: Glider is a theme?
[00:43] <TheSheep> Cimi: you have a good chance to monopolize the gtk theme engine market ;)
[00:44] <troy_s> _MMA_: Control set... try it.
[00:44] <TheSheep> hello goys, by the way
[00:44]  * _MMA_ looks.
[00:44] <TheSheep> guys
[00:44] <troy_s> TheSheep: Greets friend.
[00:44] <Cimi> I don't like glider
[00:44] <troy_s> Cimi: It avoids the nasty outline tango mess
[00:44] <troy_s> Cimi: And it is deadly clean.
[00:44] <troy_s> Cimi: I just wish it had about a 3 px round.
[00:45] <Cimi> it's much more simpler to hack murrine supporting the highlight then rewriting all the glider theme
[00:46] <TheSheep> Cimi: it's always easier to work with your own code
[00:46] <Cimi> not for this
[00:46] <Cimi> just because adding the highlight is just few lines
[00:47] <Cimi> supporting the radius in glider seems to requrire rewriting things there and there
[00:47] <troy_s> Cimi: Is that possible?
[00:47] <troy_s> Cimi: Because the basic look of mist/glider is relatively simple.
[00:47] <Cimi> troy_s, the highlight in murrine?
[00:47] <troy_s> Cimi: Oldschool highlight on two edges/darker on two... nothing else.
[00:47] <Cimi> troy_s, candido-like
[00:48] <Cimi> http://candido.berlios.de/pages/engine.php
[00:48] <Cimi> by me
[00:49] <troy_s> Almost exactly, but with rounded and no outlines.
[00:51] <Cimi> ok
[00:51] <Cimi> outlines?
[00:51] <Cimi> where?
[00:51] <troy_s> Cimi: The outlines around the buttons of a singular colour
[00:52] <troy_s> Cimi: As in the button would only be say, 1 pixel of highlight and 1 pixel of dark.
[00:52] <Cimi> border?
[00:52] <troy_s> Yes.
[00:52] <troy_s> Border.
[00:52] <troy_s> Can you turn that off in Murrine?
[00:52] <Cimi> it will be horrible imho
[00:52] <Cimi> and not usable
[00:52] <Cimi> theme will lacks of contrast
[00:53] <troy_s> Cimi: It is what I am looking for.  I have normal vision and am not too worried about outlines on everything.
[00:53] <troy_s> Cimi: I am assuming the highlights / shade are different enough to provide a single pixel outline.
[00:53] <TheSheep> plus shadows help here if your wm supports them
[00:54] <troy_s> Cimi: The borders clunkify the entire theme too much ala Tango.  It isn't terribly elegant nor professional app looking (which is another reason I require it.)
[00:54] <Cimi> I've never seen an app without them
[00:54] <troy_s> Cimi: Glider and such don't use them.
[00:54] <troy_s> Cimi: And they work fine.  Plus a good deal of the look that I am trying to merge with avoids that Tango look.
[00:55] <Cimi> you're in front of a tango lover :)
[00:55] <troy_s> Cimi: And on a personal note I despise outlines almost as much as Steve Jobs despises buttons.
[00:55] <troy_s> Cimi: I hope it isn't viral.  ;)
[00:55] <Cimi> ahahah
[00:55] <Cimi> no no :)
[00:56] <troy_s> Cimi: Is that a flexibility that you could integrate into Murrine or is a huge deal?
[00:56] <Cimi> for buttons
[00:56] <Cimi> borders
[00:56] <Cimi> I think I can do it in a clean way by bumping up gtk version to 2.12
[00:57] <troy_s> Cimi: Yes. All of the 3D elements seem to have borders in most GTK implementations, where say, Mist/Glider avoid them.  Unfortunately, Mist and Glider don't have all of the lovely flexibility of Murrine.
[00:57] <troy_s> Cimi: How would I track your development?  Are you located on Bzr or on your own servers etc?
[00:58] <Cimi> svn
[00:58] <Cimi> btw
[00:59] <Cimi> murrine wasn't written to a flat look in mind
[00:59] <Cimi> so...
[00:59] <Cimi> i will take a look if I have time
[00:59] <Cimi> and obviusly if
[00:59] <Cimi> as I've said before
[00:59] <Cimi> mark will sponsor my development
[01:00] <Cimi> mark = Canonical
[01:00] <Cimi> I can't work for weeks and absolutely for free and for him =)
[01:00] <troy_s> Cimi: Oh I wouldn't expect you to do anything really.  I was just wondering how hard it would be etc.
[01:00] <Cimi> nothing hard
[01:00] <troy_s> Cimi: As I would probably need to cludge bloody Glider or something.
[01:01] <Cimi> but a question of time
[01:01] <troy_s> Cimi: I would hate to do it, but I would if no other theme / engine / etc. offered the option.
[01:01] <troy_s> Cimi: I have no clue what Ubuntu main would want from you.
[01:01] <Cimi> me too :)
[01:02] <Cimi> I've available if someone ask me to develop and support
[01:02] <Cimi> but I can't work for free and for months, supporting everything and coding all day without anything
[01:02] <Cimi> it's not fair to me :)
[01:04] <_MMA_> Cimi: Ubuntu wants nothing from you specifically. As I understood it Ken is wanting to use Murrine but might want to do things that require coding. Thats it.
[01:04] <_MMA_> He just might not be aware of all the options Murrine has.
[01:05] <Cimi> _MMA_, ken and me already discussed in pvt a lot of time
[01:05] <_MMA_> Lots of things hinge with his meeting with Mark.
[01:05] <Cimi> yep
[01:05] <Cimi> but as I said
[01:05] <Cimi> I'm here
[01:06] <Cimi> available to him
[01:06] <_MMA_> Sure. I just dont want you to think you cant make a move without him. Which what it looks like. Just could be a language thing.
[01:06] <Cimi> obviusly I don't need any money if I can work one day to do a mod
[01:07] <Cimi> but if it will require weeks and support the engine for the rest of the LTS support
[01:07] <_MMA_> I doubt it will come to that unless he has you hack on a new "UbuntuLooks".
[01:08] <Cimi> _MMA_, I can do anything I like with cairo actually
[01:08] <Cimi> I'm using cairo in gtk engines from 2 years
[01:08] <Cimi> I'm very experienced
[01:08] <_MMA_> ok.
[01:08] <Cimi> so he can also give me a mockup and say "do it!"
[01:08] <Cimi> I can do if it don't requires hacks in the gtk+ libs
[01:09] <Cimi> btw
[01:09] <Cimi> saying "i pay you ten dollars for using murrine and helping me with the support"
[01:10] <Cimi> is just like saying "thanks for your work"
[01:10] <Cimi> and it is very appreciated
[01:10] <Cimi> I don't want to become rich with this :)
[01:10] <_MMA_> Ok. :) Well the family is done what they were doing and now I have to run.
[01:10] <_MMA_> later.
[01:12] <Cimi> troy_s, do you agree?
[01:32] <kwwii> I agree, if that helps any :-)
[02:27] <Viper550> _MMA_ sorry I had to so so suddenly
[02:32] <troy_s> Cimi: I would gladly donate to the fund if you had an easy way to deal with it.
[02:33] <Cimi> troy_s, I guess mark has more money than all freenode users actually :)
[02:33] <troy_s> Cimi: Well yes, but never underestimate the power of the masses.  Without them, Mark would have zero body of work.
[02:34] <troy_s> Cimi: Further, if you are receptive to the needs / desires of the public, I would assume that you could generate a good deal of donations.
[02:34] <troy_s> or contributions
[02:34] <Viper550> hey thar troy_s
[02:34] <troy_s> Greetings Viper550
[02:34] <Viper550> yeah, back for Hardy, finally divin' back into Ubuntu. I proudly have Gutsy running in VirtualBox on my newer computer (which unfortunately runs Vista)
[02:36] <Cimi> troy_s, btw I'm working on your request since 2 hour
[02:36] <Cimi> s
[02:36] <troy_s> Cimi: Sheesh.  You didn't have to do that!
[02:36] <Cimi> troy_s, you asked me..
[02:37] <TheSheep> troy_s: he just enjoys it ;)
[02:37] <troy_s> Cimi: I asked if it was a big deal lol.  I never expected you to dive right in.  Needless to say, thanks a bunch.  Wow.
[02:39] <Viper550> I have been playing around with Gutsy, love the new color scheme options
[02:39] <Viper550> Also, from what I saw, we'll be able to ship multiple preset color schemes on themes
[02:40] <Viper550> troy_s: http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1431/schemesrp3.png
[02:43] <troy_s> Viper550: What am I looking at.  Looks similar to XP had someone wanted to generate a Clearlooks version.
[02:44] <Viper550> you'll be able to have multiple color schemes with one "theme"
[02:45] <Cimi> I've forced a friend of mine to code it :)
[02:46] <Viper550> haha...we were also discussing that Fedora 8's new theme is just a "modification" to Murrine
[02:48] <Viper550> Also, I know that I am jumping the gun a bit but...
[02:49] <Viper550> I'm already getting ideas for Hardy, all the GTK based Hardy distros actually
[03:25] <Viper550> hello?
[03:34] <Cimi> hi Viper550
[03:34] <Viper550> I have been working on a side-project for Ubuntu Studio 7.04
[03:38] <Viper550> Right now, it's this "hack" of Crux with a dark grey/blue color scheme
[03:40] <Cimi> I go to bed
[03:40] <Cimi> bye Viper550
[06:41] <steester>  anyone here?
[12:12] <rexbron> Hey all you Ubuntu artists, I have a favour to ask. I have packaged an app for Ubuntu, but it lacks an icon. Any one interested in creating a tango icon for Genpo http://genpo.sf.net ?
[19:50] <Viper550> _MMA_?
[20:38] <Viper550> hello?
[20:40] <thorwil> hi!
[20:40] <thorwil> ubuntu version symbols: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2007/11/18/ubuntu-version-symbols/ :)
[20:59] <_MMA_> Viper550: I'm here. Though, with it being Sunday, I'm not real apt to talk about "Ubuntu stuff". ;)
[20:59] <Viper550> Yeah, I finished my GTK theme proposal
[21:04] <Viper550> _MMA_ http://bay01.imagebay.com/_upload/img/24/usgutsyfjs.jpg
[21:05] <_MMA_> "with it being Sunday, I'm not real apt to talk about "Ubuntu stuff"."
[21:30] <Viper550> anyone else here?
[23:09] <TheSheep> what do you think? http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/corky-flower.png
[23:11] <hbons> TheSheep: pretty cool
[23:13] <TheSheep> I'm just afraid that people will make holes in my monitor with tacks XD
[23:23] <_MMA_> TheSheep: Do you have a blank one? Id like to use in on my screen.
[23:24] <TheSheep> _MMA_: I have one without the flower, with only the logo
[23:24] <_MMA_> That would work.
[23:24] <TheSheep> what do you think? http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/corky.png
[23:24] <TheSheep> sorry
[23:24] <TheSheep> ok, should work
[23:25] <TheSheep> I also have the texture, but without some cloning it's pretty repetitive
[23:31] <hbons> the flower was what made it nice:P
[23:36] <_MMA_> TheSheep: Icons with white text are a little hard to read. I like the texture. :) What id Xubuntu going for this time?
[23:44] <TheSheep> _MMA_: I have no idea, I'm just a user
[23:44] <TheSheep> _MMA_: there is some bikeshedding on the mailing list, but most people seems to like the last theme
[23:45] <TheSheep> someone suggested the gtango icons
[23:45] <TheSheep> (crashbit icons)
[23:48] <_MMA_> Xubuntu doesnt even look to have a Hardy page. :(
[23:49] <TheSheep> jmak likes to work under cover apparently :)
[23:50] <_MMA_> Thats fine. I did the same for Feisty/Gutsy. Most likely Hardy+1 as well.
[23:55] <TheSheep> _MMA_: btw, I was inspired by this wallpaper: http://atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl/~sheep/desk.jpg
[23:56] <TheSheep> but I don't know who made it or even where I got it
[23:56] <_MMA_> Nice.
[23:57] <TheSheep> I love the effect, and it's really comfortable to work on


[00:10] <bazhang> * [Saint] (~hayden@rockbox/staff/saint) seems to want to argue than support
 elementary OS Freya
[00:19] <bazhang> he does this repeatedly
[05:25] <OerHeks> Hi
[05:25] <OerHeks> i notice for some days now, @ber19-3-78-220-252-108.fbx.proxad.net   join/parting endlessly..
[05:46] <OerHeks> nobody?
[05:49] <Unit193> Someone may be around in a little.
[05:50] <OerHeks> Thank you Unit193, i was not sure someone reads me, as i have no dot before my name.
[05:50] <Unit193> Nah that just indicates an OP in a core channel, we read you fine. :)
[05:51] <OerHeks> Oke, then i want no dot please :-D
 k1l_:  i removed python 2.7 ,
[11:25] <bazhang> yikes
[11:28] <ikonia> wasn't this explained to him earlier
[11:28] <ikonia> that doing this would break a lot of things
[11:30] <ikonia> 08:50 < goutham> Hey guys!
[11:30] <ikonia> 08:50 < goutham> I have accidently rewmoved python2.7
[11:30] <ikonia> 08:52 < OerHeks> goutham, time to reinstall ubuntu, as python 2,7 is needed for  softwareinstall AFAIK.
[11:30] <ikonia> it's the same guy - he's IP maxes
[11:31] <ikonia> matches
[11:35] <bazhang> 'accidentally'
[11:35] <ikonia> guy is clearly messing around
[11:35] <bazhang> @random accidental HURD
[11:35] <ikonia> "I don't know who he is" - but he's using the same PC as you, and has done exactly the same thing as you
[11:35] <ikonia> enough playing silly game


[01:12] <paissad-hp> hi everybody !
[01:13] <paissad-hp> i would like to know the list of pci tv cards which are supported by mythtv !
[01:13] <paissad-hp> thanks in advance
[03:17] <Seguer> hey guys, how do I get mythbuntu to clone the display on my TV onto my attached LCD monitor?
[03:18] <Seguer> and what about remoting in from windows? (so that I can do that setup on my windows computer, as its heard to read fonts in the desktop gui on my tv)
[03:20] <Seguer> !help
[03:20] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[03:20] <Seguer> !help hammertime
[03:20] <Zinn> !help hammertime For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[03:20] <Seguer> aww
[03:21] <Seguer> hammertime
[03:21] <Seguer> !about hammertime
[03:21] <Zinn> I am an IRC bot written in perl, but my code is not yet released.  I am named after Howard Zinn, you can learn more about him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn
[03:28] <Seguer> ok nevermind about remote desktopping in, i got in using VNC (yay) but what about cloning display to an attached monitor?
[03:28] <rhpot1991> !hammertime
[03:28] <Zinn> тФБтФБтЦК тФБтФБтЦК тФБтФБтЦК
[03:43] <Seguer> ok so from what I can tell, the nvidia drivers thingy doesn't even detect my monitor... only the TV - which is like the opposite of everything in Google (i also get full colour!)
[04:26] <Seguer> in mythtv-setup, channel editor, how do i actually edit the channels? (delete them)
[04:26] <Seguer> also, if i have two tv tuner cards, do i need two inputs?
[04:27] <Seguer> or can both cards use the same input
[04:27] <Seguer> and same set of channels etc
[08:25] <doodz> Hey peoples.  I'm trying to restore my Mythtv database.  I'm running the 'mythconverg_restore.pl' and at the moment it is giving the error message "ERROR The database does not exist" - I have followed the wiki instructions to recreate the database with the following command "mysql -uroot -p< /usr/share/mythtv/sql/mc.sql" but I'm still getting the same error message that the database doesnt exist. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can overcome this
[08:25] <doodz> that would be great...
[08:38] <Seguer> anyone know where i can find a compatability list? i have an MSI K8T Neo-V motherboard which doesn't seem to be working for sound
[15:28] <new2linx> howdy everyone, how do i get media folders to show up on the desktop of mythbuntu like they automagically do in ubuntu?
[16:56] <gbee> superm1: we've just had a third report of a bug in the 0.21 ubuntu package (19961) that was fixed long before the 0.21 release, it looks like an old theme file is finding it's way into the ubuntu packge or maybe the old file is being left in a different path when upgrading from 0.20
[16:57] <superm1> gbee, what's the theme file?
[16:57] <gbee> default/video-ui.xml
[16:58] <gbee> it's out of date with the rest of the code for some reason
[16:58] <superm1> coming with mythvideo? "mythvideo: /usr/share/mythtv/themes/default/video-ui.xml"
[16:59] <superm1> yeah looking at less on the mythvideo deb, that's definitely there
[16:59] <rhpot1991> gbee is that the cause of the imdb number box hanging around when it shouldn't be?
[17:00] <gbee> rhpot1991: yeah
[17:00] <rhpot1991> thought so
[17:00] <rhpot1991> superm1: I can confirm this bug occurs
[17:00] <gbee> superm1: correct, mythvideo
[17:00] <superm1> gbee, can you make sure it's not part of the svn tree? It looks like it's in the .orig.tar.gz to me
[17:02] <superm1> gbee, and i still see it in 21064's automatic weekly (our last weekly build)
[17:02] <superm1> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/29738147/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.mythplugins_0.21.0%2Bfixes21064-0ubuntu0%2Bmythbuntu1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[17:02] <superm1> search the build log for it and you'll see it mentioned
[17:03] <MythbuntuGuest31> Does anyone have experience of the nova-s2 card in 9.04??
[17:04] <gbee> superm1: ok, my mistake I should have double checked - not to place blame but another dev fixed the bug for -wide themes and not non-wide, we all assumed it was fixed two years ago because we'd had no further reports
[17:04] <gbee> but looking at the -fixes branch, it wasn't fixed
[17:05] <superm1> gbee, no probs.  it's always best to try to identify diversions from standard in distro level packages.  the closer we are to upstream, the better
[17:13] <gbee> ok fix committed, over two years and this was the first report - goes to show how few people use 4:3 screens :)
[17:21]  * ruskie likes 4:3 screens
[17:48] <new2linx> superm1, since you're the mythbuntu author (i thought anyway) how would I get the media folders to show up on the mythbuntu desktop like in ubuntu?
[17:49] <new2linx> superm1, also, my xfce4-panel has a memory leak in it I think. after days of up time xfce4-panel consumes a lot of virtual memory and with only 256 of ram, that's bad for my file, http, mythtv server
[18:03] <new2linx> when using the weekly builds for mythbuntu on my master backend, I get this error: Preconfiguring packages ...
[18:03] <new2linx> Failed to connect to database (incorrect admin password)
[18:49] <new2linx> i have an error when trying to use mythbuntu weekly builds repo and tmdb.pl not being able to run. here's the error I get when I try to run tmdb.pl from the command line: http://pastebin.com/f2e372b23
[18:55] <new2linx> can someone please help. mythbuntu weekly builds repo doesn't properly install some perl bindings or whatever that error is with tmdb.pl.
[19:06] <rhpot1991> new2linx: did you get tmdb.pl yourself?
[20:42] <new2linx> rhpot1991, i ended up getting it working when i followed the tmdb.pl wiki for installing it on system before .22
[21:34] <superm1> new2linx, you mean like when they get mounted?
[21:34] <superm1> new2linx, as for a memory leak, go bug the xfce guys directly about it
[21:34] <superm1> they'll be able to help you diagnose it
[21:34] <superm1> and  figure out where it's at
[21:35] <new2linx> superm1, i added to the bug that already exists for the xfce4-panel program
[21:36] <new2linx> superm1, my new master backend uses mythbuntu and i noticed that the desktop doesn't contain the folders within media like in ubuntu. i was jsut curious if you were aware of how to get xfce4 to do this?
[21:37] <superm1> folders within media?  like in /media ?
[21:37] <superm1> automatic mounting is turned off
[21:37] <superm1> you can turn it on in xfce...
[21:51] <new2linx> superm1, how do I turn it on so that any folder within the /media directory get shown on the desktop?
[23:47] <superm1> new2linx, that's not how normal ubuntu works
[23:47] <superm1> it's anything "mounted" that shows up in normal ubutnu