[02:21] <mup> PR snapcraft#1198 closed: tests: add manual tests for the kernel snaps <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1198>
[02:24] <mup> PR snapcraft#1200 closed: tests: allow to run individual autopkgtest suites <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1200>
[04:18] <mup> Bug #1629423 changed: Ordering of command line arguments matters <eco-team> <Snappy:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1629423>
[05:30] <mup> PR snapcraft#1206 opened: Arm64 witness <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1206>
[07:20] <shuduo> zyga: hi, i upgrade snapd  to 2.23.1 on opensuse. now i'm installing hello-world and it stuck at "Run configure hook of core snap if present". anything I miss?
[07:28] <zyga> shuduo: hi
[07:28] <zyga> shuduo: hey, known issue in the core snap, I think it was resolved last night but let me check
[07:28] <zyga> shuduo: thank you for reporting this
[07:30] <shuduo> zyga: welcome. just want everything perfect when i show off it to customer in future. :)
[07:34] <shuduo> zyga: one more question, i follow your blog https://new.zygoon.pl/post/case-study-snapd-on-centos/ to build snapd on centos 7. and i got error "cannot find -lcap" when making in cmd directory. but actually libcap-devel 2.22 is installed by default. i'm curious how you make it. thanks.
[07:37] <zyga> shuduo: when I wrote the blog the build system had different requirements, there's a PR waiting now that once landed will make it build easily anywhere
[07:37] <zyga> shuduo: the problem is that we need static libcap in certain case
[07:37] <zyga> shuduo: I have a PR ...
[07:38] <zyga> one sec
[07:38] <zyga> this one: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3039
[07:38] <mup> PR snapd#3039: many: add support for partially static builds <Created by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3039>
[07:38] <zyga> if you merge that in you should just get a clean build
[07:39] <shuduo> zyga: got it. let me try it. thanks!
[07:40] <zyga> shuduo: one more question, what does snap list say for you on suse?
[07:43] <zyga> shuduo: I'm refreshing core on my 42.2 leap system now
[07:43] <shuduo> zyga: only core 16-2 1441
[07:43] <zyga> I had 1512 but we reverted that to 14xx last night
[07:45] <zyga> shuduo: ok, reproduced
[07:45] <zyga> man....
[07:45] <zyga> those issues :-(
[07:46] <shuduo> zyga: i'm using tumbleweed.
[07:47] <zyga> right, I think this bug is in snapd
[07:47] <zyga> I'll get right to it and investigate
[07:47] <zyga> I'll release an update that puts a timeout on the configure hook at least so that people are not stuck forever
[07:48] <shuduo> zyga: good to know. :)
[07:48] <zyga> or even disable the configure hook on classic, it's not useful anyway yet
[07:48] <zyga> shuduo: did you report this anywhere?
[07:49] <shuduo> zyga: not yet. if you want I am happy to do that.
[07:50] <zyga> shuduo: I think there is a report of this on debian
[07:50] <zyga> let me find it
[07:51] <zyga> shuduo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1674193
[07:51] <mup> Bug #1674193: core snap's configuration hangs on debian <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674193>
[07:51] <zyga> can you please add to this bug that it also happens on tumbleweed and leap 42.2
[07:51] <zyga> add snap --version to the bug report too
[07:51] <shuduo> zyga: okay
[09:33] <mup> PR snapd#3070 opened: overlord: maintain per-revision snapshots of snap configuration <Created by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3070>
[09:38] <mup> PR snapd#3061 closed: interfaces: rename thumbnailer to thumbnailer-service <Created by michihenning> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3061>
[09:43] <mup> PR snapd#3011 closed: tests: remove core_name variable <Created by fgimenez> <Merged by stolowski> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3011>
[09:55] <davmor2> hey guys question. Is there a way I can tell snapcraft to get the build parts it needs from a deb file so I can then pull from github?  Kinda like apt build-deps
[10:05] <ogra_> davmor2, you mean the build-packages option in snapcraft.yaml ?
[10:05] <davmor2> ogra_: could be I was just asking if there was one
[10:05] <ogra_> indeed there is :)
[10:06] <davmor2> ogra_: awesome I might try a edge build of pronterface and slic3r
[10:10] <morphis_> zyga_: so build on fedora is running, as you said, pretty easy to get that up and running :-)
[10:11] <mup> PR snapd#2987 closed: store: download from authenticated URL if there is a device session set <Created by matiasb> <Merged by pedronis> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/2987>
[10:12] <Son_Goku> morphis_ , zyga_
[10:17] <morphis_> Son_Goku: you have two different nicks? :-)
[10:17] <Son_Goku> I have three, actually
[10:17] <Son_Goku> King_InuYasha is the third
[10:17] <morphis_> ah :-)
[10:17] <morphis_> good to know, each for a differnt machine?
[10:17] <Son_Goku> yep
[10:17] <morphis_> so fedpkg is actually quite nice
[10:18] <Son_Goku> yes, it's full of win
[10:18] <morphis_> but looks like we have to combine the packaging for snap-confine and snapd now that boht are build from the same source tree
[10:18] <Son_Goku> where's this hangout thing so I can pop in
[10:18] <Son_Goku> yeah, I already started doing that... :/
[10:18] <morphis_> there isn't one right now
[10:18] <morphis_> Son_Goku: ah great, how far did you come?
[10:18] <Son_Goku> snap-confine stuff builds, but snapd doesn't :(
[10:19] <morphis_> Son_Goku: is that work available somewhere?
[10:19] <Son_Goku> yep
[10:19] <Son_Goku> one sec
[10:21] <zyga> Son_Goku: we finished as morphis_ didn't have his fedora account yet
[10:21] <morphis_> zyga: I do now
[10:29] <Son_Goku> morphis_: what's your FAS?
[10:29] <morphis_> Son_Goku: mrmorph
[10:38] <Son_Goku> [06:38:30 AM]  <Son_Goku>	.fasinfo mrmorph
[10:38] <Son_Goku> [06:38:31 AM]  <zodbot>	Son_Goku: User: mrmorph, Name: Simon Fels, email<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Creation: 2017-03-22, IRC Nick: morphis, Timezone: UTC, Locale: en, GPG key ID: 1412DB3B, Status: active
[10:38] <Son_Goku> [06:38:34 AM]  <zodbot>	Son_Goku: Approved Groups: cla_done cla_fpca
[10:39] <Son_Goku> morphis_, so that's you, morphis_ ^
[10:39] <morphis_> Son_Goku: yes
[10:43] <Son_Goku> morphis_: so you now need to go through the first-time packager process
[10:43] <Son_Goku> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_package_collection_maintainers
[10:44] <morphis_> yeah, already working through that
[10:44] <Son_Goku> and don't forget to also be in #fedora-devel IRC
[10:45] <Son_Goku> lots of people hang out there and when real-time communications are supposed to happen, people like poking there
[10:45] <morphis_> thanks for that pointer!
[10:45] <morphis_> aye
[10:45] <morphis_> good to know
[10:47] <lool> jdstrand: hey, https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1674505 might be of interest to you; one part of it is about apparmor home permissions when running under sudo
[10:47] <mup> Bug #1674505: Error checking context: 'can't stat '/home/user/docker-project' when runing docker build <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674505>
[10:50] <morphis> Son_Goku: so you started work on combining the snapd/snap-confine packaging, did you also start work on updating the packaging to a more recent snapd version?
[10:50] <Son_Goku> yes
[10:52] <morphis> Son_Goku: is that work somewhere too?
[10:52] <Son_Goku> yes
[10:53] <Son_Goku> morphis: https://github.com/Conan-Kudo/snapd/commit/4c71ef5a9e6e89cf8aa2d31eef12be7e2e66d1bd
[10:53] <morphis> Son_Goku: ah nice!
[10:54] <morphis> Son_Goku: I guess there is a reason why you had to copy the systemd unit files, right?
[10:54] <Son_Goku> the original systemd units use /snap and /usr/lib/snapd
[10:55] <morphis> ah right
[10:55] <Son_Goku> Fedora uses the saner paths /var/lib/snapd/snap and /usr/libexec/snapd
[10:55] <morphis> Son_Goku: wondering if we can't change that via unit mixin's
[10:57] <morphis> Son_Goku: that way we could keep the original files and just change what we need to
[10:58] <Son_Goku> mixin's?
[10:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: we can use sed later
[10:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: or add this to packaging/fedora
[10:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: for sanity
[10:58] <morphis> /lib/systemd/systemd/snapd.service.d/fedora.conf
[10:58] <zyga> Son_Goku: then we can just maintain it in one spot
[10:58] <morphis> everything in fedora.conf gets applied to the original unit file
[10:59] <Son_Goku> morphis: ideally, the unit file would actually be a template and debubuntu and fedora packaging would convert them properly
[11:00] <morphis> possible
[11:00] <morphis> but using sed in the spec file would be another way
[11:00] <Son_Goku> yes, using sed would be required in this case, actually
[11:01] <morphis> Son_Goku: so what is left to do in that branch you shared above?
[11:01] <Son_Goku> as we'd most likely have service.in files with @libexecdir@ and @snapmountdir@ and those would be sedded in the spec
[11:01] <Son_Goku> morphis: not much actually, the problem is that build deps can't be satisfied
[11:01] <Son_Goku> and the vendorized build (for EPEL) doesn't work
[11:02] <Son_Goku> it fails on the link stage due to choking on hardening flags
[11:03] <Son_Goku> I've already finished the other adaptations, and one thing you can really do now is start working on the missing golang build deps
[11:04] <Son_Goku> that's "golang(github.com/ojii/gettext.go)" and "golang(gopkg.in/retry.v1)"
[11:04] <morphis> those do not exist in fedora at all in the moment?
[11:04] <Son_Goku> nope
[11:05] <morphis> ok
[11:05] <Son_Goku> packaging is mostly automated, through the gofed tool
[11:05] <Son_Goku> you should be able to generate packaging using it
[11:05] <morphis> yeah heard that, can't wait to see that in action :-)
[11:05] <Son_Goku> https://github.com/gofed/gofed
[11:05] <Son_Goku> on your Fedora system, do "sudo dnf install gofed*" to install all the gofed packages
[11:06] <Son_Goku> since they broke up the functionality into lots of subpackages :/
[11:07] <Son_Goku> gofed is quite powerful, as it is also capable of doing something close to API/ABI checking of golang things
[11:07] <morphis> Son_Goku: nice
[11:08] <morphis> Son_Goku: ok, on my list
[11:13] <Son_Goku> let me know when you've made the review requests
[11:14] <morphis> will do
[11:27] <mup> PR snapcraft#1207 opened: kernel plugin: stop duplicating initrd and image file, use symlinks f… <Created by piso77> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1207>
[11:54] <mup> Bug #1674505 opened: Error checking context: 'can't stat '/home/user/docker-project' when runing docker build <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674505>
[11:57] <mup> PR snapcraft#1202 closed: python plugin: support pbr/setup.cfg projects <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1202>
[12:09] <mup> Bug #1674505 changed: Error checking context: 'can't stat '/home/user/docker-project' when runing docker build <Snappy:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674505>
[12:14] <morphis> Son_Goku: to build the package from the packaging/ directory, I can't use fedpkg, right?
[12:14] <Son_Goku> no, you can't
[12:14] <Son_Goku> you need to set up the tree correctly for it
[12:14] <morphis> rpmbuild then?
[12:14] <Son_Goku> yes
[12:15] <Son_Goku> set the tree up correctly, then rpmbuild -bs <spec>
[12:15] <Son_Goku> then mock </path/to/package.src.rpm>
[12:15] <Son_Goku> that way you don't need all builddeps installed on your system
[12:16] <morphis> sounds good, the source package snapd-2.23.1.tar.gz is what I need to provide, right? it doesn't generate it from the source tree
[12:17] <Son_Goku> well, since snapd-2.23.1 actually has all the things
[12:17] <Son_Goku> you can use spectool to download the sources :)
[12:17] <morphis> ah
[12:17] <Son_Goku> spectool -C ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES -g snapd.spec
[12:17] <morphis> that was the point I was missing
[12:18] <Son_Goku> you'll want to apply the patch adding fedora packaging stuff as a patch in the spec
[12:18] <Son_Goku> that way, things like the systemd unit are available in the right place
[12:18] <mup> PR snapcraft#1206 closed: Arm64 witness <Created by elopio> <Closed by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1206>
[12:52] <jdstrand> pedronis: hey, am I crazy or is there an auto-connect bug: http://paste.ubuntu.com/24228316/
[13:16] <pedronis> jdstrand: maybe
[13:18] <jdstrand> pedronis: so, I tried quite a few things. I tried in the wpa slot side 'allow-auto-connection: true' and on the nm side 'allow-auto-connection: true', and various alternations. I didn't try to change the wpa connection contraint alternation though
[13:18] <pedronis> jdstrand: that's not relevant if there is something in the plug
[13:19] <jdstrand> well, unless there is a bug of course
[13:19] <pedronis> plug should be the only interesting one
[13:19] <pedronis> well, that logic is quite clear cut
[13:19] <pedronis> there might be a bug
[13:19] <pedronis> but it might not be about assertions
[13:19] <pedronis> fwiw
[13:19] <jdstrand> but yes, on the nm plugs I did simple "allow-auto-connection: true" and that didn't work
[13:19] <jdstrand> pedronis: shall I file a bug then?
[13:20] <jdstrand> pedronis: I just wanted to ping you here to double check my expectation that the snap decl should allow it
[13:20] <jdstrand> s/just/mostly/
[13:21] <pedronis> I think it should but as I said  I suspect either we are missing something obvious or the bug might not be in the assertion level
[13:21] <pedronis> because we have exercized that for other things quite a bit
[13:21] <pedronis> and it's rather clear cut
[13:21] <jdstrand> I'll file a bug then
[13:23] <jdstrand> pedronis: thanks
[13:23] <lool> jdstrand: hey, is there an existing bug/spec for tun/tap devices in snaps? the snap I'm looking after calls mknod directly to create a tun device; tun/tap are probably common for VPN/VNF use cases
[13:27] <jdstrand> lool: tun and tap devices are allowed by the network-control interface. mknod is not allowed anywhere, but there is a pr to allow it to create non-devices. I suspect you are asking for mknod of these devices. the application should instead use ioctl on /dev/net/tun and then the devices will be created without needing mknod. see https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/networking/tuntap.txt
[13:28] <lool> jdstrand: awesome, that's exactly what I was looking for; do you know if tunctl implements the right ioctl dance?
[13:29] <jdstrand> lool: I'm not familiar with that tool. let me check
[13:29] <lool> Hmm I'm kind of suspicious that this is still relevant given it was in uml-utilities
[13:29] <lool> my god I'm old
[13:29] <lool> I suspect iproute can do it
[13:30] <lool> right, ip is the right tool, let's check if it does the ioctl
[13:30] <lool>         if (ioctl(fd, TUNSETIFF, ifr)) {
[13:30] <lool> it does!
[13:30] <jdstrand> lool: ethertap.c unconditionally does a mknod
[13:31] <jdstrand> ok, good, use that instead :)
[13:31] <roadmr> jdstrand: hola. Hey I wanted to mention: last week we deployed some tweaks to the upload queue for a snap. The first upload that's "blocking" the queue due to needing manual review is now shown. Also, the snap's developer can now self-reject uploads pending review so they can self-unclog their snap's queue
[13:31] <lool> jdstrand: I'm kind of ashamed of mentioning user-mode linux on a public channel in 2017
[13:32] <jdstrand> lool: now, if /dev/net/tun doesn't exist then the tuntap.txt I referenced says to mknod that. if you encoutner this situation, I think snapd should do that for you, and that would be a bug against snapd
[13:32] <jdstrand> roadmr: I saw! I've taken advantage of both already. thanks!! :)
[13:32] <lool> ah
[13:32] <jdstrand> lool: hehe
[13:32] <roadmr> whee :) glad to hear jdstrand.
[13:34] <jdstrand> lool: I think udev is going to create /dev/net/tun automatically. I see it on bbb and other places where I'm not using tun/tap devices
[13:38] <lool> jdstrand: ok; I'll try to get more info; it's closed source, but I can ask to run it unconfined and see what it actually does
[13:47] <jdstrand> olive: I was on holiday last week. did someone else answer your question? if not, I'm here now
[13:50] <olive> jdstrand: thank you, stgraber answered me at #lxcontainers ;)
[13:50] <jdstrand> olive: great :)
[13:54] <pedronis> jdstrand: reading your bug, remember auto-connection works only if there is only one possibility, not sure it's relevant
[13:55] <pedronis> jdstrand: and I don't remember if assertions are used or not to prune down options anyway your assertion doesn't have extra info for that
[13:59] <ogra_> jdstrand, do you happen to know why https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/blob/master/interfaces/builtin/network_setup_control.go has no execution rights for "netplan generate" ?
[13:59] <pedronis> jdstrand: you need some rule that name needs to be same
[13:59] <ogra_> i assume just copying the file into the dir wont be enough
[14:00] <mup> PR snapcraft#878 closed: Added a fix for cases where modpbrobe append options to the line, ie.… <Created by croepha> <Closed by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/878>
[14:00] <mup> PR snapcraft#1208 opened: kernel plugin: fix modprobe output parsing <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1208>
[14:02] <pedronis> jdstrand: there should be only one possibility,  and assertions are used for pruning, and also the interface AutoConnect() method but I don't see anything that would pick only one in your example
[14:06] <jdstrand> pedronis: I did try to use constraint alternations for allow-auto-connection using plug-attributes: { name: ... }
[14:06] <pedronis> jdstrand: ?
[14:06] <pedronis> jdstrand: but the plug rule has nothing
[14:06] <pedronis> nor the interface
[14:07] <pedronis> it seems like we need a rule either in code or assertions that compare name?
[14:07] <jdstrand> pedronis: the plug side does have something. it specifies the interface, the name and the bus
[14:07] <pedronis> jdstrand: in the assertion?
[14:07] <pedronis> the code afaict doesn't do anything
[14:07] <pedronis> with name atm
[14:07] <jdstrand> pedronis: I'm saying I attempted an assertion that did that
[14:07] <pedronis> I mean dbus interface code
[14:08] <kyleN> hey ogra_: can you please check out this bug a client filed? I'm not sure what the next step is, but it's critical for them: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1674778
[14:08] <mup> Bug #1674778: snapd hangs with 100% CPU usage when image has a custom gadget snap <gadget> <snapd> <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674778>
[14:08] <pedronis> that's not what is in the bug though
[14:08] <jdstrand> pedronis: no it isn't. I did say towards the end that I tried other things
[14:08] <ogra_> kyleN, niemeyer wanted to look into that one he just said in our team meeting ;)
[14:08] <pedronis> anyway given there are two slots what is in the bug cannot work for sure  I think
[14:08] <jdstrand> pedronis: I can give the example that I tried
[14:09] <pedronis> the auto connect logic finds two cands and says nope
[14:09] <ogra_> kyleN, we were actively talking to renat yesterday night and asked him to file that bug
[14:09] <kyleN> ogra_, ok thanks. just wanted to be sure it was noted
[14:09] <ogra_> it surely is
[14:09] <jdstrand> ogra_: cause the person who wrote the interface didn't ask for it :)
[14:10] <jdstrand> pedronis: ok, let me try something else then
[14:10] <ogra_> jdstrand, haha ... well unless netplan has a clever inotify implem,entation i suspect the interface is pointless without being able to run "netplan generate" and "netplan apply"
[14:12] <pedronis> jdstrand: another option would be to change dbus AutoConnect method, usually atm it's always just true because we do things with decls though
[14:14] <cachio> jdstrand, hey
[14:15] <cachio> jdstrand, I have build a dbus snap which is adding a dbus slot and plugs the same one
[14:15] <cachio> I am getting a apparmor DENIED when I try to run in strict mode
[14:15] <cachio> jdstrand, any idea?
[14:16] <jdstrand> cachio: is the interface connected?
[14:16] <jdstrand> cachio: snap interfaces
[14:16] <cachio> yes
[14:16] <cachio> jdstrand, I connected the slot and the interface manually
[14:17] <jdstrand> cachio: can you paste the output of 'snap interfaces'?
[14:18] <cachio> jdstrand, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24228789/
[14:19] <jdstrand> cachio: can you paste /snap/kpi-dbus-tests/current/meta/snap.yaml
[14:19] <cachio> jdstrand, that http://paste.ubuntu.com/24228795/
[14:20] <cachio> jdstrand, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24228800/
[14:20] <jdstrand> cachio: oh, that is a noisy denial that has nothing to do with the dbus interface. to get rid of it you can plugs: mount-observe
[14:20] <jdstrand> that is a libc thing
[14:20] <cachio> jdstrand, ah, ok
[14:21] <cachio> jdstrand, I'll try that
[14:27] <cachio> jdstrand, should I connect against mount-observe?
[14:27] <cachio> jdstrand, I am getting that denied
[14:28] <jdstrand> cachio: mount-observe needs a manual connection
[14:28] <cachio> jdstrand, which slot should I use?
[14:29] <jdstrand> cachio: you 'plugs: [ mount-observe ]'
[14:29] <cachio> yes
[14:29] <jdstrand> sudo snap connect kpi-dbus-tests:mount-observe
[14:29] <cachio> jdstrand, ok
[14:30] <jdstrand> (you can use that instead of 'sudo snap connect kpi-dbus-tests:mount-observe :mount-observe' since it is an implicit slot
[14:32] <cachio> jdstrand, I see that now [ 4068.867293] wcn36xx: ERROR hal_remove_bsskey response failed err=6
[14:32] <jdstrand> cachio: are there denials in the log?
[14:33] <cachio> jdstrand, yes, from dmesg
[14:33] <mup> PR snapcraft#1150 closed: kernel plugin: rework MAKEFLAGS from the environment <Created by piso77> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1150>
[14:33] <jdstrand> can you paste the denials that happen after you connected the mount-observe interface?
[14:34] <cachio> jdstrand, I don't see any denial, just that error
[14:35] <cachio> jdstrand, is it related to the snap?
[14:38] <jdstrand> cachio: it is probably a snap issue then. you should try again after doing this though: sudo sysctl -w kernel.printk_ratelimit=0
[14:39] <jdstrand> cachio: that will disable kernel rate limiting (sometimes denials are rate limited). you should also look in syslog, not dmesg since dmesg won't show dbus denials
[14:40] <cachio> jdstrand, ok, I'll try that, tx
[14:44] <mup> PR core#29 opened: drop sync from hooks/configure, it isnt in the interface <Created by ogra1> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/29>
[14:55] <mup> Bug #1675054 opened: "snap info" should provide detailed track/channel release information. <Snappy:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1675054>
[14:57] <zyga> morphis: have a look at https://github.com/gofed/gofed/issues/131
[14:58] <zyga> Pharaoh_Atem: thanks for reporting that and wow, that's one quick fix :)
[14:58] <zyga> morphis: this should help you out a lot
[14:58] <zyga> morphis: you can use that technique to just quickly patch gofed locally and package the last bit
[15:05] <plars> ogra_: I'm seeing a problem with dragonboard images that seems to have started recently. We generate our own for automated tests with ubuntu-image so that we can apply a user assertion, and pretty soon after booting it, it wants to transition from ubuntu-core to core
[15:05] <plars> ogra_: so if I try to install a snap in that window, before it reboots after, it says: "ubuntu-core to core transition in progress, no other changes allowed until this is done"
[15:06] <ogra_> err
[15:06] <plars> but if we are building the image right then, shouldn't it already have core instead of ubuntu-core? why does it need to upgrade right away?
[15:06] <ogra_> ubuntu-core is long dead for images
[15:06] <plars> yeah I thought so
[15:06] <ogra_> so i wonder what gives it the idea there would be any ubuntu-core to upgrade from
[15:07] <plars> ogra_: that's not something that came from the model is it?
[15:07] <ogra_> no, iirc the model doesnt define core, only kernel and gadgetz
[15:07] <ogra_> do you actually see any ubuntu-core under /snap ??
[15:10] <mup> PR snapd#3025 closed: cmd/snap-update-ns: compute the actions required to transform mount environment <Created by zyga> <Closed by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3025>
[15:10] <morphis> zyga: yeah I saw some crashes too but got those two missing deps for snapd now building
[15:11] <morphis> zyga, Pharaoh_Atem: also it looks like the gofed tool generates invalid spec files as the changelog at the bottom is somehow messed up in my cases
[15:11] <morphis> but as long as it works and gives me something I can tune I am happy for now
[15:12] <plars> ogra_: yes
[15:12] <ogra_> plars, how did that get there ? :)
[15:12] <plars> ubuntu-core         16-2           1889
[15:12] <ogra_> plars, do you use an ancient ubuntu-image ?
[15:13] <plars> ubuntu-image     0.12+real1  37
[15:13] <ogra_> nothing should install ubuntu-core anymore ... sincwe 6 weeks or even longer
[15:13] <ogra_> thats pretty old
[15:13] <plars> oh, it looks like there's a newer version... I guess it didn't refresh because it's devmode
[15:13] <ogra_> yeah
[15:13] <plars> ah, ok
[15:14] <plars> 0.15+snap3 now
[15:14] <plars> let me try that, hopefully that's all it was :)
[15:14] <ogra_> right, try again weith that
[15:14] <zyga> morphis: what is the changelog you are getting?
[15:14] <plars> thanks!
[15:14] <ogra_> at least it should use core now and not try to upgrade ... no guarantees for anything else  :)
[15:14] <plars> heh, ok
[15:16] <om26er> Hi! Can I know which ppa generally contains snapd release candidate ? also, is there a "edge" aka daily ppa as well ?
[15:18] <ogra_> om26er, https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/edge?field.series_filter=xenial
[15:18] <om26er> ogra_: is there one for RC ?
[15:19] <ogra_> om26er, well, thats usually xenial-proposed ... but sometimes it gets uploaded in parallel to https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/image?field.series_filter=xenial
[15:22] <om26er> hmm, so I guess -proposed is more reliable than a ppa for release candidates.
[15:23] <ogra_> yes
[15:23] <jibel> om26er, release candidates are in -proposed
[15:23] <jibel> om26er, /image is used before uploading to proposed
[15:23] <jibel> it's a bit an equivalent of a beta
[15:24] <om26er> jibel: so shall we track xenial-proposed and for dailies, the edge ppa ?
[15:24] <jibel> om26er, yes
[15:24] <morphis> zyga: %changelog* Wed Mar 22 2017 Simon Fels<EMAIL_ADDRESS>- 0-0.1.gitb6dae1d
[15:24] <morphis> so both things are in the same line which the tools don't like
[15:25] <morphis> but its just another bug in gofed
[15:29] <mup> PR core#29 closed: drop sync from hooks/configure <Created by ogra1> <Merged by niemeyer> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/29>
[15:31] <om26er> ogra_: can you tell the version scheme for snapd used here includes the time of upload https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/edge?field.series_filter=xenial ?
[15:31] <om26er><PHONE_NUMBER>24 aka YYYYMMDDHHMM ?
[15:31] <om26er> or if you could point me to the right person.
[15:32] <ogra_> om26er, i think thats correct ...
[15:32] <ogra_> the right person would be mvo, but he is off sick this week
[15:37] <Pharaoh_Atem> morphis: I dunno why it always generates bad changelog sections
[15:38] <Pharaoh_Atem> it's easy enough to fix thankfully :)
[15:50] <pedronis> jdstrand: I put a comment in the bug
[15:56] <plars> ogra_: ok, that didn't seem to help, but I think I  may have it resolved now. I upgraded snapd on the host that built the image, and then it updated to core from ubuntu-core, and now the new images seem to have core in them
[15:56] <ogra_> cool
[15:57] <ogra_> i thought ubuntu-image does it ... but indeed, ubuntu-image only acts as frontend for "snap prepare-image"
[16:13] <zyga> morphis: weird, I never saw that
[16:25] <morphis> zyga: yeah
[16:27] <mup> PR snapcraft#1145 closed: tests: expect failures for the tests that can't be run in arm64 <Created by elopio> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1145>
[16:29] <sergiusens> ppisati: ^ because I added this https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1209/commits/e1e0dbb56564bdc532479e1a8066ca89e866ff05
[16:29] <mup> PR snapcraft#1209: kernel plugin: use default per arch targets <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1209>
[16:30] <mup> PR snapcraft#1149 closed: kernel plugin: if kernel's target == NULL, use per-arch default target <Created by piso77> <Closed by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1149>
[16:30] <mup> PR snapcraft#1209 opened: kernel plugin: use default per arch targets <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1209>
[16:38] <ppisati> sergiusens: is that good or bad? do i need to do anything?
[16:39]  * ppisati curls in a corner and cries
[16:40]  * ogra_ notes it is that time of day ...
[16:40] <ogra_> ... and hands ppisati a beer
[17:02] <sergiusens> ppisati: fixed a typo in your dict and added tests
[17:05] <ppisati> sergiusens: k
[17:06] <sergiusens> ppisati: just wanted to know if you were ok with it
[17:10] <ppisati> sergiusens: +1
[17:13]  * zyga EODs
[17:13] <jdstrand> pedronis: thanks-- I'm going to try something else and report back
[17:24] <mup> PR snapcraft#1210 opened: Add platforms for the nightly tests <Created by elopio> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1210>
[17:45] <jdstrand> pedronis: thanks for your help-- see https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1675019/comments/5
[17:45] <mup> Bug #1675019: wpa-supplicant's dbus interfaces are not auto-connecting to network-manager snap <snapd:Invalid> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1675019>
[17:46] <jdstrand> pedronis: snap decls can sure get tricky :)
[17:46] <pedronis> :)
[17:48] <Timmay> In latest Ubuntu-Core, how do I load kernel module at boot, seeing that most of the file system is read only? Assume it is in some "writable" folder?
[17:52] <zyga> jdstrand: FYI https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1674193/comments/3
[17:52] <mup> Bug #1674193: core snap's configuration hangs on debian|openSUSE <Snappy:In Progress by morphis> <openSUSE:New for morphis> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1674193>
[17:52] <zyga> jdstrand: do we have any fixes in seccomp that may be causing this?
[17:52] <zyga> jdstrand: (please reply in the bug report)
[17:52] <zyga> jdstrand: I'm EOD, just wanted to put this on your radar
[18:21] <roger__> Hi! I've gotten stuck on 'Run configure hook of "core" snap if present', and the only hit I get when searching for it suggests talking to people on IRC about it.
[18:21] <roger__> (see<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[19:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#1211 opened: asset-tracking: add git source tracking <Created by josepht> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1211>
[19:24] <roadmr> jdstrand: tools r850 now in production! enjoy!
[19:24] <jdstrand> roadmr: that was fast. thanks!
[19:24] <roadmr> only if you discount the fact that r849 languished there for days ;)
[19:25] <jdstrand> heh
[19:25] <jdstrand> no complaints here
[19:25] <roadmr> :D
[19:31] <coreycb> sergiusens, thanks for the fix. :)  seems to work fine although I'm running into a few more issues post-install.  i updated the bug if you could take a look when you get a chance.
[19:43] <mup> PR snapd#3043 closed: interfaces: use spec in the dbus backend <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3043>
[20:09] <mup> Bug #1650688 opened: timedatectl set-timezone fails on UC16 <Snappy:Confirmed for ogra> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1650688>
[20:34] <mup> PR snapcraft#1212 opened: store: better retry strategy for GETs <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1212>
[20:40] <mup> PR snapcraft#1208 closed: kernel plugin: fix modprobe output parsing <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1208>
[20:40] <mup> PR snapcraft#1209 closed: kernel plugin: use default per arch targets <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1209>
[23:13] <mup> PR snapcraft#1185 closed: repo: add version support for build-packages <Created by josepht> <Merged by kyrofa> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1185>
[23:46] <mup> PR snapcraft#1213 opened: asset-tracking: add bazaar source tracking <Created by josepht> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/1213>


[05:07] <nothlit> 2
[14:30] <Cimi> kwwii, a dark theme using clearlooks http://gnomelook.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/69913-1.jpg
[14:30] <Cimi> maybe we could ship this as an alternate dark theme to the light one
[14:46] <_MMA_> Cimi: You have to think about disk size and support.
[14:46] <Cimi> ?
[14:46] <_MMA_> Also, how does that theme work with Firefox, OO.o and Gnome-control-center? Theres are issues we have with Ubuntu Studio.
[14:47] <Cimi> _MMA_, obviusly a dark theme won't NEVER be ready for a default desktop theme
[14:47] <_MMA_> Cimi: Shipping multiple themes adds to the disk size. They are really tight now. And adding another theme will gemerate more theme-related bug-reports.
[14:47] <Cimi> but as an alternative
[14:48] <Cimi> to the guys that code
[14:48] <Cimi> than develop most of the day
[14:48] <Cimi> etc etc
[14:51] <_MMA_> Cimi: Once the design direction is settled I think its best to have the people that want to help, work on the main idea/theme that working on alternatives. There's so much work to be done most people dont even realize. :(
[14:52] <Cimi> I've rewritten the murrine code actually
[14:52] <Cimi> it's a lot moe polished and bug-free
[14:52] <Cimi> *more
[14:52] <Cimi> I've an svn repository
[14:52] <_MMA_> And while people are putting out cool examples I am pessimistic as to how many will really help. :(
[14:52] <Cimi> http://viewvc.intilinux.com/viewvc.cgi/cimi/murrine/
[14:53] <_MMA_> Cimi: Cool. Ill have our guy update.
[14:53] <Cimi> http://viewvc.intilinux.com/viewvc.cgi/cimi/murrine/ChangeLog?revision=19&view=markup
[14:53] <Cimi> here's the current changelog between 0.53.1
[14:54]  * _MMA_ looks.
[15:03] <andreasn> kwwii: ping
[15:10] <_MMA_> Hi andreasn.
[15:12] <andreasn> hi!
[15:12] <andreasn> what's up?
[15:13] <_MMA_> Not much. Trying not to get sicked into Ubuntu work. ;)
[15:13] <_MMA_> *sucked
[15:14] <_MMA_> Trying to just enjoy the Saturday.
[15:17] <andreasn> :)
[15:17] <rexbron> Cimi: Ping
[15:21] <Cimi> rexbron, pong
[15:22] <rexbron> Cimi: _MMA_ pointed out that the 0.6 changelog has been commited to svn, is there an eta on an official tarball?
[15:22] <rexbron> for murrine
[15:22] <Cimi> nothing now
[15:23] <Cimi> but when I'll make a make distcheck there will be the tarball
[16:25] <kwwii> re
[16:26] <kwwii> hi Cimi
[16:27] <kwwii> Cimi: what is the name of that dark theme, I would like to try it out
[16:28] <kwwii> looks like I get to read up on the art list tonight
[16:28] <kwwii> missed a lot sleeping all day :p
[16:30] <_MMA_> :)
[17:13] <Cimi> kwwii, did you read my second email?
[17:50] <kwwii> Cimi: yeah, just read it...I'll see what I can do - I imagine we can work something out
[17:53] <Cimi> kwwii, I've in mind the idea of adding a second style for murrine where the user can specify the gradients of every widget
[17:53] <Cimi> something like
[17:53] <Cimi> top_highlight_ratio = 1.1
[17:53] <Cimi> center_highlight_ratio = 1.0
[17:54] <Cimi> bottom_highlight_ratio = 0.9
[17:54] <kwwii> Cimi: wow, that sounds like a good idea if done properly...where would the colors come from?
[17:54] <Cimi> the colors are gtkrc colors
[17:54] <Cimi> bg[normall] etc etc
[17:54] <kwwii> right
[17:54] <kwwii> I gotta eat dinner now, but I will be back in a bit
[17:54] <Cimi> the ratio is read by cairo to enlight them
[17:55] <Cimi> ok
[18:48] <kwwii> re
[18:50] <Cimi> we
[22:14] <Viper550> So, they say there are plans for Gobuntu's artwork, right?
[22:17] <_MMA_> Viper550: Kinda slow on the weekends but yes, I think its up for submissions.
[22:18] <Viper550> I was told there was already plans...let me check
[22:22] <Viper550> _MMA_ http://bay01.imagebay.com/_upload/img/23/gobuntugreenwip.jpg
[22:23] <_MMA_> Whats that?
[22:23] <Cimi> Aurora engine is too slow for a desktop proposal
[22:24] <Cimi> it is the slowest engine ever written :)
[22:24] <Viper550> my idea for a possible look for Gobuntu. We can use ClearLooks too
[22:24] <_MMA_> Viper550: kwwii will be the best guy to talk to.
[22:24] <Cimi> Clearlooks has exactly the same look (with better scrollbars) and 200% speed
[22:24] <Viper550> yeah, looks smoother
[22:24] <Cimi> exactly
[22:25] <Viper550> Not Ubuntulooks, personally, I think we should give ClearLooks another try in a Gnome-based Ubuntu
[22:26] <Viper550> Though, is Xubuntu using the new gloss mode for Clearlooks?
[22:26] <Cimi> personally, I've spent more time when developing Cleralooks for gnome 2.20 than what I've done for my murrine engine
[22:26] <Cimi> Viper550, it is using murrine
[22:26] <Cimi> btw
[22:26] <Viper550> Oh, cool
[22:26] <Cimi> the glossy I've added to clearlooks
[22:26] <_MMA_> We really have to wait until kwwii has his meeting with Mark. We'll know what we can do after that.
[22:26] <Cimi> is using similar gradients to the one I've added to murrine
[22:27] <Viper550> no wonder it suspicially looked alot like that
[22:27] <Viper550> also, I was thinking a different wallpaper obviously.
[22:28] <Cimi> Viper550, I'm the copyright owner of murrine so I can do what I like :D
[22:28] <Viper550> I know, and it's GPL
[22:32] <Viper550> Have you seen that new Nodoka one?
[22:32] <Cimi> you mean murrine 0.53.1 with a different name?
[22:33] <Viper550> really?
[22:33] <Cimi> yes
[22:34] <Cimi> take the nodoka theme
[22:34] <Cimi> change the engine to murrine
[22:34] <Cimi> and you'll have a similar theme
[22:34] <Cimi> (better looking)
[22:34] <Cimi> (without the ugly progressbars)
[22:34] <Cimi> the code is 99% the same
[22:35] <Cimi> with a different name
[22:35] <Cimi> replace "murrine" "nodoka"
[22:35] <Viper550> oh.
[22:35] <Viper550> I didn't know that, looks like Murrine but with a bit more of a ClearLooks like style.
[22:36] <_MMA_> Viper550: Funny thing is you can do just that in a gtkrc file.
[22:36] <Viper550> really....? wow.
[22:37] <_MMA_> Yeah. Ill get you the example a guy from Ars showed me at UDS.
[22:37] <lukeen> Cimi: murrine is based on clearlooks, isn't it?
[22:38] <Viper550> murrine is based off candido, which I think was based off clearlooks
[22:38] <lukeen> so what is nodoka based on/off?
[22:38] <Viper550> nodoka is based off murrine
[22:39] <Viper550> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MartinSourada he did explain his rationale though
[22:41] <_MMA_> Viper550: http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2007/08/21/how-to-make-a-gtk-theme-that-uses-multiple-theme-engines
[22:42] <Cimi> Viper550, I'm the creator of Candido, Murrine and Clearlooks (since 2.18 but expecially 2.20 as you can see the improvements)
[22:42] <lukeen> ok, so the author said it IS based on murrine. well i've read much about nodoka but i never read the word murrine. after reading cimis words here i thought the nodoka author did NOT give credit and such...
[22:43] <Viper550> Also, I do love that new feature of being able to specify your own colors for GTK themes in the Appearance menu, it's awesome
[22:43] <lukeen> Cimi: you did a great job for gnome, but this nodoka guy was in the news, why didn't you?
[22:44] <Cimi> in which news?
[22:44] <Cimi> you mean gnome 2.20 release notes?
[22:44] <_MMA_> Cimi: I think what we "see" are "changes" to Clearlooks. I'm sure there are "improvements" under the hood though. ;)
[22:45] <Cimi> _MMA_, what do you mean?
[22:46] <_MMA_> Cimi: That personally I dont like the "look" of the newer Clearlooks. I like your work on Murrine better but Im sure "code-wise" Clearlooks has "improved".
[22:47] <lukeen> Cimi: i've read much about nodoka theme on news sites (i don't remember which, but distrowatch for example) but i saw your name only because of your engines or on the gnome devel sites...
[22:50] <Cimi> I'm not interested in fame :)
[22:50] <lukeen> :) ok thats cool ...  well, for me you are a gnome-style-hero :D because you made it much more beautiful! i just want to say thank you cimi
[22:50] <Cimi> thanks lukeen  :)
[22:51] <Cimi> _MMA_, the look of newer clearlooks is absolutely amazing. I'm no longer using murrine since april
[22:51] <_MMA_> "amazing" is an opinion. ;)
[22:51] <Cimi> btw from a code point of vew
[22:51] <Cimi> of course ;)
[22:52] <Cimi> and I guess people generally share my ideas
[22:52] <Cimi> but I'm not afraid if someone says that Murrine is better :D
[22:52] <Cimi> it's a compliment in both cases
[22:52] <Cimi> ehehe
[22:53] <_MMA_> The big complaint I heard about the new Clearlooks at UDS was the gradient on the tabs. In the default state I guess. I dont know how much they can be tweaked.
[22:54] <lukeen> Cimi: dont become boastful ;)
[22:55] <lukeen> well my opinion is: clearlooks is really beautiful now, but, i miss something more unique, you know, something people keep in mind. dont you think?
[22:55] <Cimi> _MMA_, wait 1 second
[22:55] <Cimi> http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2007/11/05/nuove-tabs-per-clearlooks-gummy-non-uccidetemi/
[22:55] <Cimi> sorry for the italian
[22:57] <Cimi> nodoka or murrine? :) http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6870/schermatakc8.png
[22:57] <Viper550> looks more like Nodoka
[22:57] <Viper550> or maybe you mixed it up
[22:57] <Cimi> Viper550, it is murrine with some options in the gtkrc
[22:58] <Cimi> you can get the same look
[22:58] <Viper550> gonna experiment with the 2 engines
[22:58] <Cimi> Viper550, 1 engine
[22:58] <Cimi> the engine is the same with a different name
[22:58] <Viper550> and different default options?
[22:58] <Cimi> no
[22:59] <Cimi> but for example
[22:59] <Cimi> nodoka engine
[22:59] <Cimi> ignores the highlight_ratio
[22:59] <Cimi> hilight_ratio  = 0.909090909 in murrine
[22:59] <Cimi> same look
[23:00] <Viper550> oh
[23:00] <Cimi> in fact
[23:00] <Cimi> it's really hard for me to read
[23:01] <Cimi> "So, now I think I know that the differences are too significant to merge with Murrine, we removed a lot of original code and added a lot of ours, the engines went different ways, if we'd try to merge, it would lead to losses in rendering speed."
[23:01] <Cimi> too significant?
[23:01] <Cimi> "and added a lot of ours"
[23:01] <Cimi> wtf????
[23:01] <_MMA_> lol. Cimi. I was gonna ask exactly that. The "hilight_ratio" thing.  I can't find them
[23:03] <Cimi> causing them to hate or blame me :)
[23:03] <Viper550> I use Gutsy
[23:04] <Viper550> nm
[23:04] <Cimi> packages for what?
[23:04] <Viper550> it's in universe! yay!
[23:04] <Viper550> murrine
[23:04] <Cimi> yes
[23:04] <Cimi> rexbron package it
[23:05] <_MMA_> Yeah. We'll get it updated to .60 soon.
[23:05] <Cimi> _MMA_, would you like to help me to write the right words for nodoka guys?
[23:06] <_MMA_> Hmm... :) Ok. Write up something and we'll go from there.
[23:06] <Viper550> also, do the themes on your site support Gnome's new custom color support?
[23:06] <Cimi> ;)
[23:06] <Cimi> Viper550, no one
[23:06] <Viper550> You know how to use that?
[23:06] <Cimi> I expect murrine 0.60 to have the colorscheme support
[23:06] <_MMA_> You could simple send a email to their list asking why and explain that their changes were unneeded. Showing examples.
[23:06] <Cimi> Viper550, of course
[23:07] <Cimi> we are now working to implement the colorscheme support
[23:07] <_MMA_> *simply
[23:07] <Cimi> like in kde for example
[23:07] <Cimi> various colorschemes for each theme
[23:07] <Viper550> I mean, in the appearance properties on Gnome 2.20, you can specify custom colors without having to hack into the file.
[23:08] <Viper550> most of the colors are now "aliases", and can be changed by the user
[23:08] <Cimi> I perfectly now
[23:08] <Cimi> I'm writing themes everyday :)
[23:08] <lukeen> color sheme support is absolutely necessary IMHO
[23:09] <Cimi> http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1431/schemesrp3.png
[23:09] <Cimi> this is a screenshot from the guy who is implementing it
[23:09] <lukeen> will this saved shemes be global? or per theme?
[23:10] <Viper550> global, you can also have a default color scheme per theme
[23:10] <Cimi> per theme
[23:10] <Cimi> no
[23:10] <Cimi> per theme
[23:10] <lukeen> very cool
[23:10] <Cimi> it's a choice
[23:10] <Cimi> you can add
[23:10] <Cimi> colorscheme.ini
[23:10] <Cimi> into your theme
[23:10] <Cimi> and the schemes specified
[23:11] <Viper550> oh
[23:11] <Cimi> will be listed into the combobox you can see on the right
[23:11] <_MMA_> And Murrine .6 will support this?
[23:11] <Viper550> so you're going beyond what Ubuntu has right now...awesome!
[23:11] <Cimi> _MMA_, this is a gtk/gnome things
[23:11] <Cimi> also murrine/nodoka will support it
[23:11] <_MMA_> Cimi: Thats what I asked.
[23:11] <Cimi> every engine
[23:11] <Cimi> except the pixpuf
[23:12] <Cimi> *pixbuf
[23:12] <Cimi> you just need a gtkrc with colorscheme support
[23:12] <Viper550> and a version of Gnome with that option inside the Appearance settings
[23:13]  * _MMA_ makes a note to add this to his Ubuntu Studio's gtkrc.
[23:13] <_MMA_> Viper550: Its already in Ubuntu.
[23:13] <Viper550> Gutsy?
[23:13] <Cimi> no
[23:13] <Cimi> _MMA_, in the screenhot
[23:13] <Viper550> oh so this is for Hardy?
[23:13] <Cimi> there's a combobox
[23:13] <_MMA_> NO!
[23:13] <Cimi> Viper550, yes
[23:14] <Viper550> Okay...can't wait! Makes sense to launch it on Hardy
[23:14] <_MMA_> Viper550: Its in Gutsy now. Not all engines support it.
[23:14] <Cimi> gutsy has gnome 2.20
[23:14] <_MMA_> And?
[23:14] <Cimi> it only support colorscheme
[23:14] <Cimi> not the one I've just linked to viper
[23:14] <Cimi> with a lot of colorschemes for each theme
[23:15] <Cimi> did you see the combobox on the right?
[23:15] <lukeen> this will get into 2.22?
[23:15] <Cimi> sure
[23:15] <lukeen> k
[23:15] <Cimi> _MMA_, I'm thinking to add a new style for murrine
[23:15] <Cimi> which will be much more custimizable
[23:16] <_MMA_> Viper550: Are asking for "Global" support or "per theme"?
[23:16] <Cimi> if mark will support the development I will take a look into it
[23:16] <Viper550> Global support could be nice, and per theme would be good too
[23:16] <Cimi> _MMA_, for example
[23:16] <_MMA_> Viper550: Global support is there now.
[23:17] <Cimi> I want to add ability to specify single gradient capability
[23:17] <_MMA_> Cimi: Do what you want. Dont base you decision on what Mark wants.
[23:17] <Viper550> so there's like a .colors or something?
[23:17] <Cimi> _MMA_, I must follow mark's decisions
[23:17] <_MMA_> ?
[23:17] <_MMA_> No you dont.
[23:18] <_MMA_> Why? :)
[23:18] <Cimi> kwwii said this to me
[23:18] <Cimi> he said me and him will follow mark's decisions
[23:18] <_MMA_> lol. No. Trust me. They might ask yo uto add things but you arent bound by anything.
[23:19] <_MMA_> Unless he's paying you for development. :)
[23:19] <Cimi> in fact
[23:19] <Cimi> I will help him if he will pay me :)
[23:20] <Cimi> he payed for the human icons
[23:20] <_MMA_> Sure, but you arent bound by anything so add the features you want.
[23:20] <_MMA_> Viper550: Global support is there: http://mma.users.ubuntustudio.org/Screenshot.png
[23:20] <Cimi> I think more gradient support for murrine will be amazing
[23:20] <_MMA_> Sure. Id like to see it.
[23:21] <Viper550> uhh, I mean be able to not have themes specify custom color schemes, but have a "global pool" of presets like on KDE
[23:21] <Cimi> but at the same time I can't work for days and weeks for free
[23:21] <Cimi> just for him
[23:22] <_MMA_> Sure. Thing is since we're syncing the package from Debian now we have to update sooner and the version will be harder to update.
[23:22] <_MMA_> If it were a Ubuntu package it would give us more time.
[23:24] <Cimi> what do you mean with it?
[23:24] <Cimi> I lost the connection between murrine, money for development, and debian :D
[23:26] <_MMA_> "_MMA_: Sure. Thing is since we're syncing the package from Debian now we have to update sooner and the version will be harder to update.
[23:26] <_MMA_> _MMA_: If it were a Ubuntu package it would give us more time."
[23:26] <Viper550> I was trying to make scrollbar color specified with @fg_color but it didn't work
[23:26] <Cimi> Viper550, new murrine version will support it
[23:26] <Viper550> oh
[23:27] <Cimi> but gtk version must be bumped up to 2.12
[23:27] <Cimi> so everyone with gnome 2.18 will be out
[23:27] <Viper550> also, I did hack up a "murrine theme" that can use the custom color schemes....sacrificing the scrollbar color support
[23:27] <Viper550> I just took ClearLooks and changed it to the Murrine engine
[23:28] <Cimi> Viper550, for scrollbar support specified by bg_selected
[23:28] <Cimi> just wait 0.60
[23:28] <Viper550> Okay
[23:28] <Cimi> for the ability to specify your symbolic color
[23:28] <Cimi> i.e:
[23:29] <Cimi> scrollbar_color = darker (@bg_Selected_color)
[23:29]  * _MMA_ sticks with Murrine because he can define 3 colors for tabs. (though this might have been added to Clearlooks.
[23:29] <Cimi> I MUST require gtk 2.12
[23:29] <Cimi> as gtk 2.10 and lower are not supporting symcolic colors in the engine section of the gtkrc
[23:30] <Cimi> _MMA_, ?
[23:31] <_MMA_> No sorry. Got that wrong. 1 color for the background. 1 for inactive tab and 1 for active.
[23:31] <_MMA_> Gives me 3 depths.
[23:32] <Cimi> same as clearlooks :\
[23:32] <Cimi> btw for a dark theme as ubuntulooks maybe murrine is a good choice
[23:32] <_MMA_> New or old?
[23:32] <_MMA_> ?
[23:32] <Cimi> bg[normal] is supported by both
[23:32] <Cimi> bg[selected] by both
[23:32] <_MMA_> Bad English. :)
[23:32] <Cimi> bg[actiev] by both
[23:33] <Cimi> sorry
[23:33] <Viper550> glazestyle 4 is epic.
[23:34] <Cimi> I'd like to add the ability do change the upper, mid, mid-lower and lower gradient of all widgets
[23:35] <Cimi> then to set the position of the highlight
[23:35] <Cimi> for example
[23:35] <lukeen> and customizable hilight curves hehe ?
[23:35] <Cimi> I can put on the top of the button the glossy effect
[23:35] <_MMA_> Cimi: Like I said "though this might have been added to Clearlooks."
[23:35] <_MMA_> "New" Clearlooks does this now it looks. "Old" didnt.
[23:35] <Cimi> lukeen, this is nearly impossible
[23:36] <Cimi> _MMA_, of course, I've added it in april :)
[23:36] <lukeen> Cimi: much of hard work, but not impossible ;)
[23:36] <Cimi> lukeen, do you have some experience in cairo drawings?
[23:36] <lukeen> no
[23:36] <Cimi> so
[23:36] <Cimi> ;)
[23:37] <Cimi> I must blame you
[23:37] <Cimi> it's not so simple
[23:37] <lukeen> i did not mean it really seriously :)
[23:38] <Viper550> think you could add an option for the ubuntulooks like scrollbars?
[23:38] <lukeen> and i sure belief that it's not simple
[23:38] <Cimi> Viper550, no
[23:38] <Cimi> ubuntulooks is imho ugly from the first to the last widget
[23:39] <Cimi> mmm
[23:39] <_MMA_> I dont think Ubuntulooks is gonna be used as alot of talk at UDS mentioned using Murrine. But who knows.
[23:39] <Cimi> checkbuttons are nice
[23:39] <Cimi> _MMA_, kwwii said to me Murrine was chosen
[23:40] <_MMA_> "Cimi: ubuntulooks is imho ugly from the first to the last widget" <- An example on language differences. (can be seen as mean words) :)
[23:41] <Cimi> _MMA_, could you write an email to the fedora lists? :D
[23:41] <lukeen> Cimi: what do you think: which engine has cleaner code, which is faster? clearlooks or murrine?
[23:41] <_MMA_> Cimi: Sure but Mark can always make Ken change his mind. Thats why I said "But who knows?"
[23:41] <Cimi> _MMA_, ok
[23:42] <_MMA_> Cimi: Well as I dont know all the details I think you should start the 1st email and I can help revise (better the language) it.
[23:42] <Cimi> lukeen, clearner code: Clearlooks
[23:42] <Cimi> faster (with flat themes) Murrine
[23:43] <Cimi> rounded themes Clearlooks
[23:43] <Cimi> but Murrine 0.60 will have a very polished code
[23:43] <Cimi> I've spent a day in polishing it
[23:43] <lukeen> nice to hear murrine developmet is continuing
[23:44] <Cimi> lukeen, I've a subversion repository
[23:44] <lukeen> hehe? ;)
[23:44] <Cimi> http://viewvc.intilinux.com/viewvc.cgi/cimi/murrine/
[23:50] <Viper550> how do you make the buttons on Murrine look like the Nonoko ones?
[23:50] <Viper550> I mean nodoka
[23:51] <Cimi> hilight_ratio = 0.909090
[23:51] <Cimi> in the murrine options
[23:53] <Viper550> on what button style?
[23:53] <Cimi> ?
[23:53] <Cimi> eh
[23:53] <Cimi> yes
[23:53] <Viper550> nm
[23:53] <Cimi> glazestyle = 0
[23:53] <Viper550> glaze style 1 and that .909090
[23:55] <Cimi> Viper550, seen the magic? :D
[23:55] <Viper550> awesome.
[23:55] <Cimi> lol
[23:55] <Viper550> we truly need to re bringup Murrine on ubuntu-artwork mailing list
[23:56] <Viper550> I'm working on a little mockup with this glossy look and the Human colors
[23:56] <Cimi> Viper550, there are a lot of improvements in stability
[23:56] <Cimi> over 0.53.1
[23:56] <Cimi> in the svn version
[23:56] <Viper550> cool
[23:56] <Cimi> in fact
[23:56] <_MMA_> Viper550: Trust me. Its being looked at.
[23:57] <Cimi> both ubuntulooks aurora and nodoka
[23:57] <Cimi> have leaks
[23:57] <Viper550> I'm going to try modding the only original part of nodoka
[23:57] <Cimi> and some malloc problems
[23:57] <Viper550> the metacity
[23:57] <Cimi> which imho is really poor =)
[23:57] <_MMA_> Viper550: But I would wait till kwwii has the final word on the direction for making too many mock-ups.
[23:57] <Cimi> exaclty
[23:57] <Viper550> I'm just preparing for that moment
[23:57] <Cimi> actually it's just a waste of time
[23:58] <Cimi> I will expect a lot of forks from murrine 0.60 :D
[23:58] <_MMA_> At UDS we were all sure (including kwwii) that the theme was gonna be orange and black. Now brown is staying in there to some degree.
[23:59] <Viper550> orange and black.....that would have been uber...or better for Ubuntu Studio
[23:59] <_MMA_> Well kwwii made jokes he was gonna steal it. ;)
[23:59] <Viper550> yeah, maybe add it to the repos when Halloween comes around XD
[23:59] <_MMA_> But everyone is free to do whatever.


[02:05] <liuxg>  the fonts in my desktop are very small. it is shown as http://imgur.com/VUYbui8. How can I make it bigger? i have tried to use tweak tool to fine tune them with no success.　I am now using Ubuntu 15.10..thanks
[06:14] <didrocks> good morning
[06:19] <pitti> Good morning
[06:20] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va ?
[06:42] <didrocks> ça va, et toi pitti ?
[06:43] <didrocks> tu te sens mieux ?
[06:48] <pitti> didrocks: you, merci, je vais bien à nouveau
[06:48] <pitti> didrocks: j'ai allé courier, on a mangé de la glace, etc. → tous va bien :)
[06:50] <didrocks> haha, "back to normal" :-)
[06:50] <didrocks> or rather "retour à la normale" :)
[08:09] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:11] <didrocks> good morning seb128
[08:11] <seb128> lut didrocks, ça va ?
[08:13] <didrocks> ça va, et toi ?
[08:18] <seb128> ça va bien:-)
[08:19] <pitti> bonjour seb128 !
[08:20] <seb128> hey pitti! wie gehts?
[08:20] <pitti> seb128: gut, danke! und DIr?
[08:21] <seb128> auch gut, danke :-)
[09:02] <Laney> hello!
[09:05] <seb128> good morning Laney!
[09:05] <seb128> had a good w.e?
[09:08] <alexarnaud> good morning seb128 Laney and everyone !
[09:08] <seb128> hey alexarnaud
[09:08] <Laney> hey seb128
[09:08] <Laney> and alexarnaud
[09:08] <Laney> was good thanks, felt almost like spring!
[09:08] <Laney> did some planting in the garden
[09:08] <willcooke> morning all
[09:09] <pitti> hey Laney, hello willcooke!
[09:09] <Laney> seb128: and you too?
[09:09] <Laney> hey pitti!
[09:09] <Laney> how was your weekend?
[09:10] <seb128> yeah, w.e was good
[09:10] <seb128> we didn't do anything special on saturday, just relaxed and went to see a movie
[09:10] <pitti> Laney: quite nice, thanks; we went to the movies on Friday, "Spotlight"
[09:11] <seb128> and yesterday there was a special day at the tennis club to celebrate the end of the winter tournament
[09:11] <Laney> :3
[09:11] <pitti> it was worth seeing (maybe not the top one this year, but good)
[09:11] <Laney> did you play in the tournament?
[09:11] <Laney> you were the winner right?
[09:11] <pitti> Go, seb128, go!
[09:11] <seb128> with some tennis games and see pea soup and then a quizz
[09:11] <seb128> lol
[09:11] <seb128> I played, but no I didn't win :p
[09:12] <seb128> I manage to win some match though
[09:12] <seb128> and it was fun ;-)
[09:17] <willcooke> no "week commencing..." email this week because everyone is here
[09:18]  * willcooke ponders
[09:19] <chrisccoulson> Hey desktop team
[09:19] <Laney> wowzers
[09:19] <seb128> hey willcooke
[09:19] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson! enjoying the new laptop? ;-)
[09:19] <chrisccoulson> I'm hitting bug 1542699 when I dock my new laptop (unity-settings-daemon just goes in to a crash loop and I can't use my external monitor)
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it's ok. Although there's quite a few annoying issues because of the high dpi screen
[09:20] <chrisccoulson> But having 64GB of RAM is nice :)
[09:20] <seb128> you are welcome to send patches our way ;-)
[09:23] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, joke aside, if you want to debug that u-s-d issue that would be nice, since you seem to be able to trigger it
[09:24] <seb128> I wonder if there is something wrong with the stored config
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> I don't know what changed, I could dock on Friday. Although the multi-monitor experience is kind of sucky (it defaults to clone mode, and once the external screen is suspended it never wakes up again)
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> It's pretty annoying having to undock, redock and then layout my desktop again every time I go to grab coffee
[09:25] <chrisccoulson> I'll try to figure out that crash in a bit anyway. I can't work without my external screen :)
[09:26] <seb128> thansk
[09:29]  * Laney screams
[09:29] <Laney> /dev/sda2                    237M  230M     0 100% /boot
[09:30] <willcooke> ruh roh
[09:30] <Laney> ubiquity did that for me
[09:30] <seb128> #fail
[09:33] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1465050
[09:34] <willcooke> FYI: anyone finding bugs with upgrades to 16.04 please use the tag "1604-upgrade"
[09:35] <willcooke> via davmor2 ^
[09:35] <seb128> k
[09:46] <chrisccoulson> Laney, ubiquity tried to give me a 64GB swap partition
[09:50] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's good, plenty of swap space ;-)
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I changed it to 16GB when I realized. Although, I've not used a single byte yet
[09:51] <seb128> my disk is 80G :p
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I won't tell you how big my disks are ;)
[09:54] <seb128> I read it on fb :p
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128, did you see how fast one of them is?
[09:54] <seb128> I need to renew my laptop, mine is falling apart
[09:54] <seb128> yeah
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> Yeah, my old one was on its last legs. I often couldn't even power it on
[09:55] <seb128> I've an i5 latitude from 2010 (iirc) with 4GB ram and a 80G ssd :p
[09:55] <seb128> battery is down as well (though I already changed that one)
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> do you know what laptop you're going to go for?
[09:57] <seb128> I think xps 13
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> Yeah, it looks nice. If I hadn't got my mind set on 64GB of RAM, I'd have probably gone for that tbh
[09:58] <seb128> I'm tired of traveling with bricks in my backpack
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> Heh
[09:58] <seb128> :-)
[09:58]  * Laney is swapless
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I literally have a brick to carry around - the 180W power supply it comes with ;)
[09:59] <seb128> competing with Bjoern? ;-)
[10:00] <pitti> a power brick the size of my laptop? :)
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> quite possibly. The dock has a 240W power brick too
[10:01] <seb128> I'm a bit concerned that the 13" screen is too small
[10:01] <seb128> I already find my 14" on the a bit small side
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: you don't have an external monitor at home?
[10:01] <seb128> I would take a 15" if there were 1.3kg
[10:01] <Laney> old man
[10:01] <seb128> Laney, wait, it's going to happen to you some day :p
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> I could probably survive with the 13" screen when travelling, but I just use my external monitor at home
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> And that's 24" :)
[10:02] <seb128> pitti, I do, but I often work from the couch or when travelling
[10:02] <Laney> true
[10:02] <Laney> I was thinking about using a typing break thing to save my eyes
[10:03] <Laney> staring at the prison at the top of the hill for a bit every now and again
[10:03] <Laney> good for the motivation too!
[10:04] <seb128> hehe
[10:05]  * Laney stabs okular
[10:07] <seb128> doko is back btw ;-)
[10:09] <Laney> I saw
[10:10] <Laney> going to wait before pinging him about the ICE ;-)
[10:11] <Laney> I just removed that thing from calligra to get it to build
[11:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I added a comment to the end of bug 1542699
[11:51] <Laney> pitti: do you know about all these worker failures?
[11:52] <ksamak> hey all, nice monday
[11:53] <ksamak> Trevinho: i saw you announced the <IP_ADDRESS> compiz version. thanks
[11:53] <ksamak> as soon as it's out, i'll get on forwarding the package for deb deb
[11:55] <pitti> Laney: not yet; I tried to reproduce this locally, but didn't get that; this looks like some weird string corruption indeed :(
[11:55] <Laney> :(
[11:55] <pitti> Laney: still on my list,  but currently fighting with ruby-defaults and debci host running out of inodes
[11:56] <Laney> running out of inodes? wow
[12:05] <desrt> good morning!
[12:05] <willcooke> morning desrt
[12:06] <desrt> hey there willcooke
[12:36] <GunnarHj> Hi seb128, if I want to propose a fix of bug #1556356, where do I go? (It would good to get it in, since it affects the desktop docs.)
[12:36] <seb128> GunnarHj, you add a debdiff to this bug I guess
[12:36] <seb128> GunnarHj, or can do a branch in upstream git and ask robert_ancell to review/merge it
[12:37] <seb128> GunnarHj, but if you don't have a GNOME/account or are used to that I think it's easier to just to a diff
[12:37] <Laney> rbasak: do you have that bug number handy?
[12:38] <Laney> also hey :)
[12:38] <GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks. As regards upstream, would it apply, i.e. does GNOME also use the name "Software & Updates"?
[12:38] <rbasak> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-terminal/+bug/890784
[12:38] <seb128> GunnarHj, no, but robert_ancell handle the ubuntu diff as an ubuntu branch in the GNOME git
[12:39] <seb128> so it's not "mainstream line upstream"
[12:39] <seb128> but it's hosted on the upstream vcs
[12:39] <seb128> which is why I didn't suggest opening an upstream bug
[12:39] <seb128> but rather ping robert
[12:40] <GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks, I see (I think). I may ask robert, or just write a patch.
[12:40] <Laney> rbasak: merci!
[12:40] <seb128> GunnarHj, right
[12:41]  * Laney makes the fix sound
[12:41] <Laney> plooooooooooop
[12:41] <seb128> GunnarHj, I can do the change for you next time I do a gnome-software upload if you want, but that's probably not before tomorrow
[12:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks for the u-s-d bug comment, I guess ideally the code should bail out from applying a config without aborting in those case
[12:48] <GunnarHj> seb128: That would be great! As long as I know it will be there at release time it's fine. Then we know how to name it in the desktop docs. Thanks!
[12:48] <seb128> GunnarHj, great, let's do that then :-)
[12:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: Just to clarify: You'll do it without a patch from me, right?
[12:49] <seb128> correct
[12:50] <GunnarHj> Nice. :)
[12:51] <Laney> ah man
[12:51] <Laney> I forgot to remove [ Ubuntu Merge-o-Matic ]
[12:51] <Laney> AMATEUR
[12:51] <seb128> haha
[12:52] <seb128> not good for the job security man
[12:52] <seb128> [ done by a robot while I was drinking tea ]
[12:52] <seb128> <big list of changes>
[12:52] <seb128> :-)
[12:52] <Laney> phew, hard work this merging!
[12:52] <Laney> time for a tea break!
[12:53] <seb128> hehe
[12:53] <Laney> actually mom wasn't even that helpful here
[12:54] <Laney> it doesn't handle patches which got merged upstream very well
[12:54] <Laney> or even 3.0 (quilt) in general
[12:54] <Laney> hoped it would be less annoying than trying to get the diff out of svn
[12:54] <Laney> but probably not
[12:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, since you are in this code and debugging, any chance you come with a patch to make it not segfault in those cases? ;-)
[12:59] <Laney> isn't it an abort?
[12:59] <Laney> assertion
[13:00] <seb128> yes
[13:00] <seb128> sorry, I tend to use segfault for sibarbt/sigsegv
[13:00] <Laney> yeah I mean that it's a deliberate choice rather than bug
[13:00] <seb128> right, but I don't think it's a good choice
[13:01] <seb128> it would be if the xrandr plugin was a standalone service
[13:01] <seb128> but the g-s-d design of "one plugin takes the service down" doesn't make that reasonable
[13:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what's the "xrandr" output on your machine?
[13:03] <Laney> well what do you do? leave the output unconfigured with no obvious way to tell that u-s-d knew it was buggy?
[13:04] <seb128> aborting() doesn't help the user much
[13:04] <seb128> but I guess it depends what "unconfigured" means
[13:04] <seb128> if it means letting the default xorg config it's probably ok
[13:05] <seb128> if it's half way through applying a config, unsure...
[13:05] <seb128> I guess we could put a check upfront for duplicate output names and just bail out from applying any config in such cases
[13:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128, xrandr only lists each output once. But I've just checked the source for that, and it seems to filter out duplicate names
[13:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we should probably do that as well in gnome-desktop then?
[13:33] <mdeslaur> Laney: hi! do you have a new version of gtk2webkit planned?
[13:34] <mdeslaur> er
[13:34] <mdeslaur> webkit2gtk
[13:34] <Laney> mdeslaur: yeah it needs merging
[13:34] <Laney> you can do that if you want ;-)
[13:35] <Laney> or will do soon-ish
[13:35] <mdeslaur> Laney: hah, you're funny :)
[13:35] <mdeslaur> Laney: cool, thanks :)
[13:44] <pitti> Laney: ah, I understand the "warning: can't parse dependency rails= 2:3.0.0)" now, looking at it
[13:44] <pitti> sigh, parsing dependency strings is *hard*
[13:44] <Laney> pitti: nice, what is it?
[13:44] <pitti>                   $origdeps =~ s/(^|,)[^<,]+<[^!>]+>//g if (!$supports_profiles);
[13:44]  * Laney screams
[13:45] <pitti> Laney: my broken attempt to sed out build profiles on libdpkg-perl versions that don't support them properlyyet
[13:45] <pitti> aka trusty
[13:55] <andyrock> hey all!
[13:56] <seb128> hey andyrock! how are you? had a good w.e?
[13:56] <andyrock> kind of. my bank decided to block all my cards
[13:56] <andyrock> for no reason
[13:56] <andyrock> :D
[13:57] <andyrock> what about you?
[14:01] <Sweet5hark> pitti, Laney: lol at that perl linenoise.
[14:02] <pitti> my cat jumped on the keyboard and that came out of it :)
[14:04] <pitti> http://www.xkcd.com/1171/
[14:04] <seb128> Laney, btw well done on getting poppler to migrate ;-)
[14:04] <Sweet5hark> otoh regexps are part of C++11 now. we can have standard conforming linenoise in C++ too now ...
[14:04] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark
[14:04] <seb128> andyrock, I'm good, thanks!
[14:04] <Sweet5hark> seb128: heya!
[14:04] <Laney> seb128: thanks for your work there too!
[14:05] <seb128> andyrock, shame for your bank :/ Did you call them? did they tell you why? maybe weird use on one of your cards?
[14:05] <seb128> Laney, :-)
[14:06] <Sweet5hark> seb128: oh yeah, saw libreoffice moving out of proposed, thought "great, poppler is done".
[14:06] <seb128> Sweet5hark, indeed!
[14:06] <Sweet5hark> seb128: soo, I will pack up a new upload ;)
[14:06] <seb128> great!
[14:06] <andyrock> seb128: i called but the bank is closed in the we so i had to wait till today to fix it. The problem was that when I used a card it said that the code was wrong even if the code was correct
[14:07] <seb128> andyrock, stop trying to use your card when you are that drunk :p
[14:07] <andyrock> ahahaha i was just buying two bananas :D
[14:09] <pitti> -                  $origdeps =~ s/(^|,)[^<,]+<[^!>]+>//g if (!$supports_profiles);
[14:10] <pitti> +                  $origdeps =~ s/(^|,)[^<,]+<[^!,>]+>//g if (!$supports_profiles);
[14:10] <pitti> Laney: ^ this is -- totally obviously! -- fixing it
[14:10]  * pitti commits with reproducing test case
[14:11] <Laney> pitti: aha, multiple profiles?
[14:12] <pitti> Laney: no, not going across a ",", i. e. into the next dependency
[14:12] <Laney> nod
[14:12] <pitti> Laney: test case in http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/autopkgtest/autopkgtest.git/commit/?id=b794e4acb7 illustrates it
[14:12] <seb128> what a great language perl is ... ;-)
[14:12] <pitti> seb128: as I said, http://www.xkcd.com/1171/
[14:13] <pitti> (to be fair, it's the attempt to do that with REs rather than Perl, but independently of that Perl still sucks :) )
[14:13] <Laney> seb128: hah
[14:13] <Laney> I mean pitti :P
[14:14] <Laney> "<" being valid in other context tripped you up there it seems
[14:14] <pitti> right
[14:14] <pitti> Laney: and apparently we don't have too many test dependencies with a << relation
[14:14] <pitti> (which makes sense, as that's highly unusual)
[14:15] <pitti> Laney: anyway, fix deployed, should hopefully quieten down now
[14:16] <pitti> Laney: there's some "unknown package lxd" junk too, fixed that too (hopefully -- 3rd attempt)
[14:16] <pitti> constantly working against our devel series is hard..
[14:16] <Laney> pitti: I saw something about eatmydata in there
[14:16] <pitti> Laney: yeah, that was attempt #2 or so :)
[14:16] <Laney> heh
[14:16] <pitti> https://git.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-release/+git/autopkgtest-cloud/commit/?id=c2d0109ff242e834a852ff1e362682d9cf7316ce
[14:17] <pitti> Laney: having lxd pre-installed hurts with cluod, as the ubuntu user can't actually use lxd then
[14:17] <pitti> cloud-init fix is in the pipe, but not in xenial yet
[15:23] <ricotz> seb128, hey, might be nice to get hexchat 2.12.0 ;)
[15:24] <seb128> ricotz, if you say so, I've no clue about that program, I just touched it because it was buggy in a way that made xchat-gnome not build
[15:26] <ricotz> seb128, ah, ok, I thought you are using it
[15:27] <seb128> no, sorry
[15:28] <mhall119> Laney: can you review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStream/Icons and let me know if there's anything I should add or change? I'm going to write a longer blog post announcing the need, and also going into more detail about how to work with upstreams
[15:29] <mhall119> Laney: also,just to verify, you only need the icon attached to the bug report, not a debdiff, right?
[15:29] <ricotz> seb128, don't worry, although this is an actually maintained xchat fork ;)
[15:51] <Laney> mhall119: Things need to be upstream, it's not reasonable for us to sponsor stuff that's not forwarded - too much of a burden to maintain, so please ask for a link to be included with the bug straight away
[15:51] <Laney> mhall119: If you don't ask for a debdiff then include a section that tells sponsors to put the image in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/size/category/
[15:51] <mhall119> Laney: ack, I'll re-order the instructions to make upstreaming come before attaching stuff to the bug report
[15:52] <mhall119> how hard is it to make a debdiff?
[15:52] <Laney> if implies learning some basic packaging
[15:52] <mhall119> can I easily walk somebody through the process if they've never done any packaging anything before?
[15:52] <Laney> it
[15:52] <mhall119> ok, I'll stick with just attaching the image and instructions then
[15:53] <Laney> I would also link to https://wiki.debian.org/AppStream/Guidelines somewhere
[15:54] <flexiondotorg> mhall119, I learned how to make a debdiff, so the bar is set pretty low :-)
[15:57] <mhall119> Laney: on the Icons pag?
[15:57] <mhall119> or should I replace the old DEP-11 link on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppStream/ ?
[15:58] <Laney> It includes some further guidelines about how to do the packaging, so if you include a note to sponsors you could put that along with it
[16:00] <mhall119> ok
[16:00] <Laney> \o/
[16:01]  * mhall119 fixes link on debian's wiki
[16:03] <mhall119> Laney: do you have a screenshot of Gnome Software running on Ubuntu that I can use in my blog post?
[16:03] <Laney> tsk, no xenial? :)
[16:04] <mhall119> not yet
[16:04]  * mhall119 hasn't found a convenient time
[16:04] <ogra_> and ll these scary stories about upgrades not working ...
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128, https://code.launchpad.net/~chrisccoulson/unity-settings-daemon/lp1542699/+merge/288952 seems to fix the crash
[16:04] <mhall119> actually I'm mostly worried about Android Studio not working
[16:05] <mhall119> because I'm going to install 64bit xenial to replace my 32bit wily
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> Although, it still takes me about 30 minutes, multiple attempts and several reboots just to get my display set up the way I use it :(
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> It's like I've gone back in time by 10 years ;)
[16:05] <seb128> chrisccoulson, great, adding to me review list
[16:06] <Laney> mhall119: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/g-s.png
[16:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson, so the duplicates output are also invalid ones?
[16:08] <mhall119> thanks Laney
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128, I think so. I had a look at what mutter does, and it seems to ignore these as well
[16:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128, https://git.gnome.org/browse/mutter/tree/src/backends/x11/meta-monitor-manager-xrandr.c#n884
[16:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thx
[16:13] <seb128> mterry, hey, sorry nobody reviewed your geonames changes there :-/
[16:13] <seb128> larsu said he would have a look, but I had guess he has other things to do, and none of us picked it up then
[16:13] <mterry> seb128: no worries, I just dragooned some u8 folks
[16:14] <larsu> seb128:  mh? I had a look when you last asked but desrt had already commented
[16:14] <larsu> ah, only on one of them :(
[16:14]  * larsu wouldn't have expected that
[16:15] <desrt> larsu: i don't really feel qualified here...
[16:15] <larsu> desrt: why not?
[16:15] <desrt> i can comment on issues of style but in terms of things like what goes in the DB.... i have no clue
[16:16] <larsu> me neither - if someone needs more stuff, I guess that makes sense?!
[16:17] <seb128> desrt, code reviews are still useful, even if you don't comment on the intend/feature
[16:17] <desrt> i'm just wondering who will end up being the person to up/down the changes
[16:18] <desrt> i'm happy to review only for correctness and style (ie: knitpicks) if someone gives the links again
[16:18] <desrt> but ya.. there needs to be someone who knows a bit more about how this is actually used... that person may be mterry himself...
[16:19] <seb128> desrt, https://code.launchpad.net/~mterry/geonames/expose-more/+merge/287365
[16:19] <seb128> desrt, yeah, I was going on the line that we trust mterry on the changes but that it would be good to have a code review
[16:19] <seb128> desrt, thanks!
[16:21] <larsu> :)
[16:21] <seb128> larsu, desrt, oh, and happy monday btw :-) how are you? had a good w.e?
[16:22] <desrt> yes.
[16:23] <desrt> went to a knife-throwing place on saturday and an art exhibit on the beach on sunday... also got/built some more ikea stuff for my place :p
[16:23] <desrt> how was your weekend?
[16:24] <seb128> knife-throwing, I hope you don't try to make us a demo in Pragues ;-)
[16:24] <desrt> it's actually extremely safe
[16:25] <desrt> the 'knives' in question are not sharp along the blade... and even the tip is not very sharp... less dangerous than darts, i'd say...
[16:25] <seb128> it was good thanks, relaxed on saturday, when to see a movie in the evening and there was at special day at the tennis club yesterday with some playing and then soup/drinks&a quizz, quite fun
[16:25] <seb128> ah, ok
[16:25] <desrt> trivia!
[16:25] <desrt> attente and i did that one night.  we did okay.
[16:25] <desrt> well, actually, attente and i did awful
[16:25] <desrt> but i brought a friend along to be on our team.  he did great.
[16:26] <seb128> :-)
[16:29] <larsu> seb128: yep! Was cross country skiing close to Munich
[16:29] <larsu> seb128: how are you?
[16:32] <seb128> larsu, I'm good thanks!
[16:57] <mterry> greyback: Is https://code.launchpad.net/~unity-team/qtmir/shell_chrome/+merge/286361 good now?  You were reviewing it, seemed happy, but never actually approved
[16:57] <mterry> whoops, wrong channel, but statement stands  :)
[16:59] <mterry> seb128: the ubuntu-system-settings port to geonames never got landed.  We're going to land the geonames double-free fix in silo 41 with a bunch of other u8 stuff (a FFe silo).  I guess the u-s-s port won't land in OTA 10.  But please consider releasing it after FF.  Would be good to only carry one copy of that data on images
[17:00] <andyrock> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/676457
[17:00] <andyrock> for the FFe
[17:01] <seb128> mterry, right, I'm sorry but I'm too busy on desktop to be able to look at u-s-s atm, hopefully kenvandine and jgdx handle it though
[17:04] <mterry> seb128: yeah, not an urgent item.  Just nice to have.  Especially once I finally finish translation support for geonames
[17:05] <seb128> mterry, thanks for working on those issues!
[17:06] <mterry> seb128: my pleasure!  I just imagine how annoyed our Chinese users are when they have to pick a timezone in English  :)
[17:07] <seb128> mterry, oh, even french users can be annoyed by that ;-)
[17:07] <mterry> seb128: heh
[17:07] <greyback> mterry: yes, right, I forgot about that. Code-wise I'm happy, just wanted to test
[17:08] <seb128> mterry, btw  you trainify changes look fine to me, though I don't know why that g-d depends was higher and if it's fine to lower it
[17:08] <mterry> seb128: I tested with the older one, and it seemed fine.  I actually tested with an even older version (precise) and it built...
[17:08] <seb128> mterry, but if it works just go for it
[17:08] <mterry> seb128: I'm *guessing* that larsu just used the version he had on hand
[17:08] <seb128> yeah
[17:09] <seb128> I was guessing that it was a copy/based on another project that had that version used
[17:09] <mterry> seb128: I'll be happy when we can leave vivid behind
[17:09] <seb128> +1
[17:13] <Trevinho> andyrock: thanks... Ask Ubuntu  release too
[17:34] <davmor2> seb128: is it me or did ubuntu-software-center get sucked back onto the image?
[17:35] <seb128> davmor2, it's you
[17:35] <seb128> davmor2, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/xenial-desktop-amd64.manifest doesn't have it at least
[17:35] <davmor2> seb128: I have it here and I didn't install it
[17:36] <willcooke> davmor2, did you upgrade from an older version of 16.04?
[17:36] <davmor2> seb128: so can only of come in the updates
[17:36] <seb128> davmor2, you are it on the  livecd or on an installed system?
[17:36] <davmor2> willcooke: updated all along but it was gone at one point
[17:36] <seb128> or upgraded?
[17:37] <seb128> are you sure it was gone?
[17:37] <willcooke> what he said ^
[17:37] <seb128> we never did anything to remove it for you
[17:37] <Laney> aptitude why software-center
[17:37] <davmor2> seb128: yes because when I type in software it only showed the gnome one and not the orange ubuntu one
[17:37] <seb128> we tend to let users keep enjoying the softwares they are using and not force them into migrating if they don't want to
[17:38] <seb128> k
[17:38] <seb128> can you grep for it in the dpkg.log?
[17:38] <seb128> what laney said as well
[17:38] <seb128> but nothing removed it for me on my xenial system
[17:38] <davmor2> seb128: ah unless it was a similar issue to evince
[17:38] <seb128> unsure why /how it had been uninstalled for you
[17:38] <seb128> no
[17:39] <seb128> evince was not listed in gnome-software
[17:39] <seb128> but you are speaking about unity dash there no?
[17:39] <davmor2> yes unity dash
[17:39] <kenvandine> mterry, the geonames branch for uss is in silo 66
[17:39] <seb128> that never had issues listing installed things
[17:39] <seb128> davmor2, "aptitude why software-center" and grep for it in dpkg.log?
[17:41] <davmor2> davmor2@davmor2-XPS-13-9343:~/Downloads⟫ sudo aptitude why software-center
[17:41] <davmor2> [sudo] password for davmor2:
[17:41] <davmor2> i   software-center Depends    oneconf (>= 0.2.6)
[17:41] <davmor2> i A oneconf         Recommends software-center (>= 4.1.21)
[17:44] <seb128> davmor2, and the dpkg.log?
[17:44] <davmor2> seb128: looking now
[17:45] <mterry> kenvandine: oh sweet thanks
[17:45] <kenvandine> mterry, np
[17:45] <kenvandine> lots of landings lined up
[17:45] <mterry> kenvandine: the double-free branch really needs to land along with it for it to be usable, but we're landing that in silo 41
[17:45] <kenvandine> i have 2 other landings first
[17:45] <kenvandine> ok
[17:45] <davmor2> seb128: 2016-03-01 09:16:08 status triggers-pending software-center:all 16.01+16.04.20160217
[17:47] <davmor2> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15385571/
[17:48] <seb128> davmor2, yeah, that's not a status change, it was installed before that
[17:48] <seb128> davmor2, do you have rotated .1 log?
[17:50] <davmor2> seb128: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15385586/
[17:50] <seb128> davmor2, those logs suggest it was never removed
[17:51] <seb128> or at least not since february
[17:51] <seb128> 2016-02-18 09:18:04 upgrade software-center:all 16.01+16.04.20160119 16.01+16.04.20160217
[17:51] <seb128> it was upgraded to the newest version on the 18th
[17:51] <seb128> unsure why the dash was not listing it for you
[17:51] <seb128> consider that a bug that has been fixed :p
[17:51] <davmor2> seb128: \o/
[17:52] <davmor2> seb128: so a bug that I didn't realise was a bug has been fixed \o/
[17:52] <seb128> right
[17:52] <willcooke> *cough* you're welcome
[17:52] <willcooke> ;p
[17:52] <seb128> ;-)
[17:53]  * davmor2 pats willcooke on the back help that nasty cough get out of his system
[17:54] <willcooke> :D
[17:55] <ogra_> its all about the smoke testing ...
[17:56] <willcooke> we have a winner!
[17:56] <Laney> prod-ue-appstream@wendigo:~/appstream-cloud$ juju upgrade-charm --switch --repository=charms/ local:trusty/apache2
[17:56] <Laney> error: invalid service name "local:trusty/apache2"
[17:56] <Laney> prod-ue-appstream@wendigo:~/appstream-cloud$ juju upgrade-charm --repository=charms/ --switch local:trusty/apache2 apache2
[17:56] <Laney> Added charm "local:trusty/apache2-0" to the environment.
[17:56] <Laney> seriously
[17:56] <willcooke> wut
[17:56] <Laney> +apache2 on the first one
[17:56] <Laney> yes the order of flags matters
[17:56]  * Laney fist -> own face
[17:57] <willcooke> wow
[18:09] <Laney> ksplice'd
[18:09]  * Laney got an email telling him he was a naughty boy
[18:09] <Laney> now to scan a form to get edinburgh waverley to give me my suit back
[18:12]  * flocculant thinks Laney has a thing for scanned forms ...
[18:12] <Laney> same one
[18:12] <Laney> I just put off doing it for 10 days
[18:13] <flocculant> oh ha ha ha
[18:13] <Laney> because I have to refuse to send my card details over email
[18:13] <Laney> which is an argument I don't really want to have
[18:13] <Laney> ho hum
[18:14] <flocculant> I'd be rather :| about that too
[18:14] <ogra_> just take a photo of your card and attach it to the mail ... dont be so shy
[18:14] <ogra_> :)
[18:15] <Laney> I'll post the card to them
[18:15] <Laney> can do without it for a week
[18:15] <Laney> better include the pin too just to be sure
[18:16] <ogra_> and put "handle with care: includes credit card and number !" on the outside ... to make sure people dont break it
[18:16] <Laney> oh yeah true, don't want it being snapped
[18:16] <ogra_> yeah
[18:20] <Laney> £12 charge to send by bank transfer
[18:20] <Laney> what is this?!?!?!
[18:24] <seb128> they know how to make money...
[18:30] <Laney> at least it didn't get nicked I guess
[18:35] <Laney> ♥ simple-scan
[19:17] <davmor2> +1 on the simple-scan love
[19:54] <mhall119> Laney: ximion: can you proofread http://people.ubuntu.com/~mhall119/blog/appstream.html before I publish it?
[19:56] <ximion> seb128: not sure if Ubuntu is interested, but on Debian we will have gotten rid of Aptdaemon pretty soon - only one package is still depending on it
[19:57] <ximion> we have a patch for software-properties, but the driver stuff is completely untested (on Debian, only the cache update code is really used): http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/collab-maint/software-properties.git/tree/debian/patches/0004-Implement-PackageKit-support.patch
[20:00] <ximion> mhall119: looks good, really well-written! I wonder if 2) should mention "X-AppStream-Ignore" explicitly
[20:01] <ximion> technically, that's covered by the link to the wiki, but not everyone will read it ;-) - and adding that field is an immediate action someone can do
[20:01] <ximion> maybe mentioning to write metainfo files would be helpful too, to have some more detailed metadata readily available
[20:01] <mhall119> ximion: I considered it, but thought that it would be unlikely that it would be the correct way to fix the problem for any given app
[20:02] <ximion> oh, it sometimes happens for things like system components, or if an app ships multiple .desktop files but only wants one to show up in the SC
[20:02] <mhall119> ximion: I'm focusing only on icons for this one, we can follow it up with another call for more general metadata
[20:02] <ximion> all fringe cases, but it happens
[20:03] <ximion> ok
[20:03] <willcooke> that's awesome, thanks a lot mhall119
[20:03] <mhall119> ximion: for the cases where it's the appropriate solution, that can be determined by talking with upstream I would imagine
[20:04] <ximion> for the SVG stuff: I am not sure if we should encourage shipping SVGs at all cost, since rendering them on the client costs some CPU time, and if there are lots of icons, this sums up (and also, the rendered icons need to be cached, consuming space in every user's $HOME)
[20:04] <ximion> on the other hand, SVG icons also have clear benefits
[20:04] <ximion> +so maybe leave that section as it is ^^
[20:05] <mhall119> since they're just submitting the file, not a package patch, it's up to someone else if it should be rasterized before patching or at runtime
[20:05] <ximion> jup, you're right (RE the AppSteam-Ignore) - anyway, nice guide, very helpful!
[20:05] <mhall119> thanks :)
[20:06] <mhall119> years ago, when I did a similar call for icons for apps in Unity, SVG was the preferred: http://mhall119.com/2012/03/contributing-to-unity-for-artists-svg-icons/ so I was taking a similar approach here
[20:08] <ximion> yeah, SVG as source is great and the go-to thing
[20:08] <ximion> in a perfect world, designers would ship SVG icons which get rendered to optimized PNGs at build-time and then stored ^^
[20:12] <willcooke> good morning robert_ancell
[20:13] <willcooke> how goes
[20:13] <robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
[20:22] <mhall119> https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/4aewgu/help_make_gnome_software_beautiful/ help with upvotes would be appreciated
[20:23]  * ximion shared
[20:35] <robert_ancell> mhall119, nice work!
[20:36] <willcooke> g'night all o/
[20:36] <mhall119> thanks robert_ancell
[21:11] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[21:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, hello
[21:13] <seb128> robert_ancell, how are you?
[21:13] <robert_ancell> good
[21:15] <seb128> how is the g-s work going?
[21:15] <seb128> not sure if you saw but bdmurray fixed the changelogs server
[21:16] <robert_ancell> I did,that's awesome
[21:16] <mhall119> Laney: ximion: what's the answer to http://mhall119.com/2016/03/help-make-gnome-software-beautiful/#comment-143340 ?
[21:17] <seb128> did you figure out the invalid read in get_changelog?
[21:17] <seb128> I mentioned it to attente but I don't think he was able to reproduce
[21:17] <robert_ancell> not yet
[21:17] <seb128> did you hit the issue yourself or is that something happening only in special cases?
[21:18] <ximion> mhall119: it shouldn't be, if your Contents file is up-to-date at Ubuntu
[21:18] <ximion> maybe check for that
[21:18] <ximion> if that looks fine, have Laney reprocess VLC
[21:19] <mhall119> so it's okay to have the image and the .desktop files in separate binary packages?
[21:19] <mhall119> what Contents file?
[21:19] <seb128> need to go, 'night everyone
[21:20] <robert_ancell> seb128, bye
[21:20] <robert_ancell> seb128, I haven't seen that issue myself I don't think
[21:20] <ximion> mhall119: that one: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/xenial/Contents-amd64.gz
[21:21] <mhall119> why would it matter if mine was up to date (do I even have one?)
[21:21] <ximion> mhall119: on Debian, we have vlc: https://appstream.debian.org/html/sid/main/metainfo/vlc.html
[21:22] <ximion> so I think a fault in the Contents file is highly likely (>> 90%)
[21:22] <ximion> I am working on a more powerful generator right now, which, if deployed, is capable to solve this problem once and for all
[21:22] <mhall119> ximion: ok, I'm just downloading http://appstream.ubuntu.com/hints/xenial/universe/DEP11Hints_i386.yml.gz and generating moinmoin markup from that
[21:22] <ximion> we don't have the issue at Debian, because we rebuild the contents file more often
[21:23] <ximion> mhall119: yeah, nothing wrong with your code, I am talking about the generator here
[21:23] <mhall119> ok
[21:23] <mhall119> can you and/or Laney check if VLC needs work, and if not just remove it from the wiki page?
[21:48] <ximion> mhall119: only Laney can do that
[21:48] <ximion> I think it won't need work
[21:49]  * ximion is productive in rewriting the generator in C and D
[22:04] <mhall119> ximion: then what, Erlang, F#, Go, Haskell, something with I?
[22:12] <ximion> C, because that's the language the AppStream library is already written in, which handles most of the things I need already
[22:12] <ximion> D because it integrates well with C and makes writing multithreaded applications fun - also, everyone who knows C or C++ can write D easily, so there is no huge barrier for new contributors
[22:13] <ximion> I considered Go, but interfacing C and Go was terrible
[22:13]  * ximion didn't want to spend most of the time in writing language bindings
[22:13] <mhall119> you're killing my alphabet joke ximion
[22:14] <ximion> hehe, sorry, I didn't see it ^^
[22:14] <ximion> it's very late here and I just finished dinner, to my excuse :P
[22:14] <Laney> ximion: mhall119: I made it forget all icon-not-found
[22:14] <Laney> not sure I did that since my Contents fix a few weeks ago
[22:14] <Laney> which should have fixed some Universe packages
[22:14]  * Laney not really here though, o/
[22:15] <Laney> (check back in 90 minutes or so)
[22:18] <ximion> Laney: the new generator should be fast enough generate it's own contents list with less overhead, so I will make this a priority when the basic functionality is finalized
[22:19] <ximion> it's only a theoretical issue for Debian, but a real issue for Ubuntu
[22:19] <ximion> and I really want the generator to be robust about these errors


[16:11] <pmatulis> are we having a meeting today?
[16:12] <pleia2> I have things to talk about, but I have to whisk my kitty off to the vet :(
[21:34] <Linux-Neophyte> I'm reading some literature on the documentation team and there are some broken links on the website. Where do I report them?
[21:40] <Linux-Neophyte> The link embedded into Ubuntu Documentation Contributors on the webpage https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Organization is broken.
[22:18] <pmatulis> no need. i corrected the wiki


[03:09] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer: the Ardour devs do not want to spend time supporting jack. Paul doewsn't really do audio recording as he spends almost all of his time coding and I might note that Robin almost always starts Ardour with the "Dummy" back end so as not to disturb whatever desktop audio he is listening to.
[03:10] <OvenWerks> Yet they have said they think jack should not be used even though it is the only way to do a number of things they just don't do because it is too hard (without jack)
[03:12] <OvenWerks> The Ardour devs have stated they don't support plugins and yet sugest using plugins rather than jack !?!?
[03:16] <OvenWerks> So, anyway, jack is not dead... or unnessessary either. Computer audio is not in great shape... with any OS.