[00:35] <bananapie> Hello. I was told to install an 'upstream' kernel ( because of a launchpad bug ), but I really don't know what I am doing. Should I install the generic-amd64 in this folder ? http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v4.3-rc6-unstable/
[00:37] <bananapie> I'll try it anyways
[08:22] <davmor2> Hey guys query for prep for testing 16.04 I assume the kernel will be the one that allows for kernel upgrades on the running system without the need to reboot is that correct? and will we be making use of that for upgrades? finally is there any testing for this that QA would need to know about from a user perspective, or is there an easy way to tell if you have migrated to the newer kernel?
[08:34] <apw> davmor2, hmmm not 100% sure of the details there, i think it best if you start an email thread with ogasawara in the first instance
[08:34] <davmor2> apw: yeap thanks
[15:00] <rtg> cmagina, dannf: re: bug #1508471 - what is the commit subject of that patch ? I thought the SAUCE patch was dropped in Wily because it was replaced by an upstream merge.
[15:01] <cmagina> rtg: the merge didn't happen as it didn't land till recently, so missed the normal window
[15:01] <cmagina> rtg: it'll be in the 4.4 kernel, so that is a backport of those patches
[15:02] <rtg> huh, I sure thought I'd seen it upstream already
[15:04] <cmagina> Catalin acked them on Oct 6th
[15:04] <cmagina> They landed in linux-next a week or so later
[15:05] <rtg> cmagina, ok, I remember now
[15:35] <leitao> rtg, hi Tim. Regarding LP bug#1502982, it is in fix commited. Does it mean that it will be released in the SRU kernel in the cycle of 18-Oct through 07-Nov, correct?
[15:36] <rtg> leitao, yes, it should be. lemme check for sure
[15:36] <leitao> rtg, please.
[15:40] <rtg> leitao, both patches are in Ubuntu-3.19.0-32.37 which is currently staged in the kernel team testing PPA
[15:40] <leitao> rtg, good. Thank you
[15:40] <leitao> and now we have the ckt PPA built for ppc64el, which is quite good.
[15:41] <rtg> leitao, that isn't exactly new, is it ?
[15:42] <leitao> rtg, maybe 1-2 month old.
[15:42] <rtg> leitao, hmm, I think we've been building ppc64el in that PPA since the archive first supported it
[15:42] <leitao> rtg, unfortunately no.
[15:42] <leitao> but we are good now.
[15:43] <leitao> rtg, anyway, thank you for checking that
[15:44] <infinity> leitao: It's been built in that PPA since day 1.
[15:44] <infinity> leitao: That PPA always builds the same arches as the primary archive.
[15:45] <leitao> infinity, hey Adam. Well, maybe it was built but not put on the PPA.
[15:45] <infinity> leitao: You could be thinking of a different PPA.
[15:45] <leitao> I remember we didn't have the ckt PPA since 1-2 month ago, when I talked to Michael and he manage to get it enabled.
[15:46] <leitao> infinity, probably not
[15:46] <infinity> leitao: I assure you the ckt PPA always builds for all arches we support, since that's how we do things.
[15:46] <infinity> leitao: Oh.  You mean the mainline "PPA", which isn't a PPA. :P
[15:46] <leitao> infinity, correct
[15:46] <infinity> leitao: Tim means the actual ckt PPA, ie: https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-team/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+packages
[15:47] <leitao> infinity, Ah, there were 2 PPAs for the ckt them. This explains the difference.
[15:47] <infinity> leitao: The mainline thing isn't a PPA at all, it's just got a stupid name. ;)
[15:47] <infinity> leitao: Hence the confusion.
[15:47] <rtg> I think those bits are cross-compiled as well
[15:47] <infinity> They are.
[15:48] <leitao> infinity, got it. Sometimes I fear my memory, but in this case I was pretty sure that the mainline "PPA" was not enabled for ppc64el.
[15:48] <leitao> infinity, didn't know they are cross compiled.
[15:48] <infinity> leitao: Right, it wasn't, we fixed that recently for you.
[15:49] <leitao> infinity, thanks for that.
[15:49] <infinity> leitao: Anyhow, Tim was referring to the SRU staging PPA to point to your fix, not the mainline madness. ;)
[15:50] <bjf> leitao, those quickly move from the ppa to -proposed ... a better testing option IMHO
[15:50] <leitao> bjf, agree
[15:51] <leitao> btw, for generic PPA, I heard we are going to have them enabled for ppc64el by the end of this week.
[15:54] <infinity> leitao: We're working hard to make that true.  A few minor snags here and there, but it's kinda mostly working.
[15:54] <leitao> infinity, cool. This is going to be quite useful for us. Thank you!
[15:55] <infinity> Quite useful for a lot of people. ;)
[15:55] <infinity> And then arm64 and armhf, and then s390x.
[15:55] <infinity> Then we take over the world.
[15:55] <infinity> Ish.
[15:56] <leitao> infinity, yes, but I usually receive a lot of request for quick fixes, we can start using PPA for those requests.
[20:29] <bananapie> Hello. I filed a bug for a kernel/driver issue. I have found another issue in Launchpad that seems to be the same as mine. But the Kernel bug reporting etiquette said I shouldn't post to other people's tickets, what is the correct way of raising awareness of the possible relationship between the tickets?
[20:30] <apw> bananapie, you could simply mention in each bug that the other bug seems related
[20:30] <bananapie> Ok. Thanks :)
[22:34] <thell> Hi, anyone else getting kernel panics after today's update? I've had two today after months of stable operation.  Gnome Ubuntu 15.04 3.19.0-31-generic
[22:34] <thell> I've manually selected the previous in grub, but was wondering if anyone else is experiencing issues...


[00:02] <matv1> jfred you're right that encryption of content is needed. I am not sure about apps subscribing directly to their services. You would have loads of daemons running to listen for their service all the time
[01:04] <jfred> doesn't have to be separate daemons, just one with multiple connections
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:14] <bzoltan_> mardy:  ping
[08:16] <mardy> bzoltan_: hi!
[08:17] <mardy> bzoltan_: zbenjamin is actually telling me about the applauncherd experiment :-)
[08:17] <bzoltan_> mardy:  good morning sir :) have you seen my response to the ML?
[08:17] <bzoltan_> mardy: here is the package https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/staging
[08:18] <mardy> bzoltan_: mmm... no, I haven't see your reply yet
[08:19] <bzoltan_> mardy:  damn with the ML ... I have sent it and it is in my sent mails folder
[08:20] <mardy> bzoltan_: nope, I can't see it, not even from gmail
[08:23] <bzoltan_> mardy: I have sent again and to you too
[08:23] <bzoltan_> mardy:  the point is that great minds think alike :D We have banchmarks, LP project and testable packages too :)
[08:24] <mardy> bzoltan_: now I got the one you forwarded directly to me
[08:25] <mardy> bzoltan_: well, I wrote that message because I thought that no one was working on that
[08:25] <mardy> bzoltan_: but since you are, I guess I can let you continue the work; if I can help with something, let me know, I'd be glad to
[08:34] <beehock> hi
[08:34] <beehock> trying to port sony xperia l to ubuntu touch
[08:34] <beehock> got a black screen and no adbd
[08:35] <beehock> there is a note in the porting guide debugging area about adbd
[08:36] <beehock> Troubleshooting Cannot start ADB without graphics
[08:36] <beehock> "Copy it into the /usr/bin/adbd directory in the Ubuntu rootfs of the device being ported" the path does not make sense. anyone?
[08:38] <Guest34394> hello everybody I would like toknow how to install tes version of network indicator to test the hotspot wifi capacities on myriam aquaris E4.5. I didn't find anything clear about how to do ig
[08:38] <Guest34394> my*
[08:43] <Guest34394> Isolé anyone could help me with it?
[08:44] <justCarakas> Guest34394: it is somewhere in the mailing list
[08:46] <Guest34394> is there anywa
[08:48] <Guest34394> is there a way to have the history officier the mailing list?
[08:51] <justCarakas> Guest34394:  https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg14322.html
[09:03] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/should-you-be-buying-an-ubuntu-phone-right-now-487838.shtml
[09:07] <nhaines> lotuspsychje: Betteridges's law of headlines says "no".
[09:08] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Walk on Stilts Day! 😃
[09:10] <nhaines> JamesTait: is Tuesday "Happy Have-Your-Friends-Sign-Your-Cast Day"?
[09:11] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: lets make an exeption headline and say yes this time :p
[09:11] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: or will you use your n7 as phone :p
[09:11] <JamesTait> nhaines, I was thinking along similar lines. 😉
[09:13] <nhaines> lotuspsychje: Oh well, the N7 wouldn't be such a good phone... it's too big.  :D
[09:13] <nhaines> I need to figure out if my N5 is still dropping calls.
[09:13] <lotuspsychje> nhaines: those biggest iphone gold are very huge already (999 euro)
[09:14] <lotuspsychje> i know a guy who blended that beast, wearing it in his pockets lol
[09:16] <bzoltan_> mardy:  thank you. I think we will need you help :) more eyes and more fingers can help a lot.  Integrating this solution will do need some lobbying
[09:20] <mardy> bzoltan_: cool, I have good connections into the Italian mafia ;-)
[09:28] <bzoltan_> mardy: that is exactly I thought about :)
[09:50] <nhaines> ogra_: sorry your G+ comment went a little off the rails.  :/  I don't understand why people get so worked up.
[09:51] <nhaines> Err, I mean that the comments to your G+ post went off the rails.  Your comment was fine.  :)
[09:51] <ogra_> nhaines, yeah ... it is the first time i actually considered turning off the comments
[09:54] <nhaines> I'm all for a KDE Plasma phone.  I won't use one, so it doesn't affect me, so why would I care if others want to build it?  Best of luck to them!  :D  But I can't say the demo video impressed me very much.
[09:54] <nhaines> The announcement seemed somehow premature.
[09:54] <ogra_> like ours :P
[09:55] <nhaines> Quite possibly!  :P
[09:55] <ogra_> what bothers me is that there are surely some kde lovers among the ubuntu phone owners and even perhaps some that would have produced images for bq or meizu phones ... but if you dont even tell them, they wont know
[09:58] <nhaines> ogra_: yeah.  Well, maybe they'll improve their communication in the future.  :)
[09:59] <ogra_> we'll see ... after the press coverage it shoudl at least be known now :)
[10:01] <nhaines> Yeah.  :)
[10:13] <AbuDhar> hey.
[10:13] <AbuDhar> http://www.meizu.com/en/ubuntu/features.html anyone who owns this phone?
[10:14] <popey> AbuDhar: o/
[10:15] <AbuDhar> and do you like it? do the normal features work?
[10:16] <AbuDhar> like calling, texting etc?
[10:16] <nhaines> Yes, of course.
[10:18] <popey> I like it.
[10:18] <popey> and yes.
[10:28] <yak> hello !! how could I have the instruction to install test network indicator to create wifi hotspot ??
[10:29] <ogra_> yak, https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg14322.html
[10:39] <yak> I tried to know how to install a silo, but the commandline citrain -h returned me : /usr/bin/citrain: 45: .! can't open /usr/share/bluetils/shell-adb-common.sh
[10:39] <yak> I precise I'm on the phone terminal
[10:40] <yak> must I use it with adb connection ??
[10:40] <ogra_> you use it on your PC
[10:40] <ogra_> yes, it uses the adb connection as a backend
[10:44] <yak> but I'm on a Windows computer, is there any other way than using a live usb ubuntu??
[10:45] <ogra_> you could read the source of the citrain script and manually do all the bits it does
[10:45] <ogra_> (or you could just wait til the feature lands in the actual images in the next 4 weeks)
[10:46] <zzarr> I have purchased a Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition :D
[10:46] <ogra_> yay
[10:47] <yak> ok so I've to use a ubuntu-desktop to do i, my question was if it was possible to do adb with windows , but I think it's not
[10:50] <ogra_> it surely is if you install some android SDK
[10:50] <ogra_> (the citrain tool wont run on windows though)
[10:52] <popey> zzarr: yay
[10:54]  * ogra_ hugs Saviq for filing bug 1478075
[10:54] <ogra_> err
[10:54] <ogra_> bug 1478506 i mean
[11:06] <Saviq> ogra_, hug mzanetti then, but the two are kind-of the same
[11:07] <Saviq> the overaching problem being "there's no holistic UX design for sound"
[11:09] <ogra_> Saviq, well, i'd be happy already if it remembered the setting for media :) opening any app that works in media context pushes it back to full volume
[11:10] <mzanetti> IMO there's lots we could/should fix without waiting for UX
[11:10] <mzanetti> in terms ouf sound
[11:11] <Saviq> ogra_, oh if that really happens that's an obvious bug, I was expecting that the switching between ringtone and app makes it seem like the volume was reset
[11:13] <mzanetti> Saviq, well, it's the same... every time you create a Audio {} or SoundEffect {} element, it pushes volume up to 100 again
[11:13] <mzanetti> funny thing is, after playing such a game and trying to lower the volume for the game
[11:13] <mzanetti> I end up with all sounds at 100% except the ringtone volume, which then makes me miss calls
[11:17] <Saviq> mzanetti, yeah, something weird's happening there, likely in part because the stream is initialized over and over again
[11:17] <Saviq> mzanetti, which shouldn't be a case with an app using SoundEffects, afaics
[11:17] <mzanetti> indeed, it shouldn't :) hence the bug report
[11:17] <Saviq> because the whole idea behind SE is that the audio pipe is open all the time
[11:17] <mzanetti> right
[11:18] <Saviq> and I think that was happening before
[11:18] <mzanetti> actually it seems that is not the problem... there's a noticeable difference between Audio {} and SoundEffect {}
[11:18] <mzanetti> also on ubuntu...
[11:18] <mzanetti> Audio takes like a second from play() to noise
[11:18] <mzanetti> SoundEffect is instant
[11:18] <mzanetti> so that seems ok
[11:20] <Saviq> mzanetti, likely only if your stream was already up
[11:21] <Saviq> mzanetti, if Pulse suspends, it will take a second or so to play any sound, which is why SE should open the stream straight away, to keep the pipe going
[11:21] <mzanetti> yeah... I think that works fine...
[11:21] <mzanetti> ah... now I see where the miscommunication happened
[11:22] <mzanetti> for ogra_ it seems to happen when switching apps (even if they don't create new SE/Audio elements)
[11:22] <mzanetti> hmm...
[11:22] <ogra_> yep
[13:07] <mzanetti> alf, hey, has this one been released to vivid or just to wily? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1291455
[13:08] <alf> mzanetti: Not released yet
[13:08] <mzanetti> hmm... says "Merged"
[13:08] <mzanetti> alf, anyhow, is there something to do for unity8 itself too or can I close it?
[13:10] <alf> mzanetti: Merged to trunk, but not released to the archive. We have different trunk and packaging branches.
[13:12] <alf> mzanetti: What I fixed is actually making the proximity sensor active when a notification comes, which is what the discussion is about, but it's different to the bug title.
[13:13] <alf> mzanetti: if we want what the title says, i.e., proximity sensor always on when greeter is visible regardless of why we are in greeter, then unity8 needs changes too.
[13:13] <mzanetti> ack
[13:13] <alf> mzanetti: note, however, that I actually implemented that  previously and found it very annoying
[13:14] <mzanetti> alf, dunno. all my previous phones have had that...
[13:14] <mzanetti> never found it annoying. when it was disabled in a prototype that caused me to pocket-send mails etc
[13:15] <mzanetti> IMO quite required
[13:18] <alf> mzanetti: example... you press the power button to turn the screen on, you are in greeter trying to enter your passcode, screen turns off while you are doing so because you pass your finger over proximity sensor
[13:18] <alf> mzanetti: anyway, that's the story so far, we can iterate further
[13:19] <mzanetti> ok
[13:23] <seb128> jgdx, kenvandine, hey, could one of you review https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/ubuntu-system-settings/get-custom-version/+merge/264619 ? it should be an easy one...
[13:24] <seb128> jgdx, kenvandine, btw what's the status of autopilot bugfixes and ci?
[13:25] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[13:25] <kenvandine> sure, did you run the tests on the device yourself?
[13:25] <kenvandine> seb128, and the status is waiting for Elleo to figure out what's up with the keyboard issue
[13:25] <kenvandine> Elleo, any news? ^^
[13:26]  * kenvandine is excited to have successfully paired bluetooth keyboard and mouse and ended up in windowed mode
[13:26] <kenvandine> woot!
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, I did the testing when I submited it, but it sitting there for some weeks...
[13:26] <seb128> kenvandine, :-)
[13:26] <kenvandine> just wish we had a mouse pointer :)
[13:26] <seb128> that could be useful indeed
[13:27] <kenvandine> seb128, i wish we had passing CI :/
[13:27] <seb128> me too!
[13:27] <Elleo> kenvandine: yep, got a fix building now
[13:27] <seb128> \o/
[13:27] <kenvandine> seb128, we've narrowed that down to some issue changing layout
[13:27] <kenvandine> Elleo, woot!
[13:27] <Elleo> kenvandine: I still had a couple of system settings test failures when I ran the whole suite that seemed unrelated to the keyboard though (to do with checkboxes I think)
[13:27] <kenvandine> Elleo, i might have a fix for those
[13:28] <Elleo> kenvandine: ah, okay, cool
[13:28] <kenvandine> i have a branch that fixes some tearDown issues
[13:28] <kenvandine> we were spawning tons of dbus processes that didn't get cleaned up
[13:28] <kenvandine> after a full run of the tests we ended up with 94 dbus-daemon processes :/
[13:28] <Elleo> heh
[13:28] <kenvandine> Elleo, so i think some of those issues are just racey because of system load
[13:29] <Elleo> okay
[13:29] <kenvandine> i have a dbus_gone_wild branch :)
[13:29] <Elleo> heh
[13:30] <kenvandine> debugging these CI issues really opened a can of worms... i've fixed a bunch of bugs in our autopilot tests now
[13:30] <kenvandine> seb128, i'll run the tests for your branch with Elleo's keyboard fix as soon as it's ready
[13:31] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[13:35] <kenvandine> Elleo, can you give me a shout when you have a branch proposed and i can grab the debs to try out?
[13:36] <kenvandine> mandel, how's silo 17 looking on vivid?
[13:36] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah, I have it building in silo 2 alongside the shift latch fix, so that'll probably be the best place to test it from as it'll have fixes for everything then
[13:36] <kenvandine> Elleo, excellent!
[13:36] <kenvandine> thx
[13:36] <Elleo> no problem :)
[13:37] <seb128> dpm, hey, I've another issue with upstream vs distro translations for touch to bounce to you if have a minute to discuss that
[13:37] <Elleo> kenvandine: would you mind giving those branches a quick test/review since bill isn't around this week?
[13:37] <kenvandine> Elleo, happy to
[13:37] <Elleo> kenvandine: great, thanks
[13:40] <dpm> seb128, about to enter some calls. Feel free to start, and I'll read the scrollback
[13:41] <seb128> dpm, basically for e.g u-s-s, we enabled distro translation, but now it means that the upstream project has a staled outdated template, which confuses translators... is there any way to turn off translations for the project/redirect translators to $current_distro?
[13:43] <AbuDhar> installing the SDK.
[13:43] <mandel> kenvandine, I did the rebuild, we had to change the silo due to the sync and went for lunch
[13:44] <mandel> kenvandine, going to test now hoping to approve it
[13:45] <Laney> don't translations get synced back to trunk?
[13:46] <kenvandine> mandel, cool, thx
[13:46] <Laney> or not for the template?
[13:46] <dobey> sigh
[13:47]  * ogra_ sees dobey's line and looks for studio_
[13:48] <dobey> oh, so the sonum did get bumped in this branch
[13:49] <dobey> ogra_: sigh is for the massive mess of gigantic migrations going on in wily versus getting actual features/fixes landed
[13:49] <ogra_> well, its wily
[13:49] <ogra_> werewolves only work on full moon at night
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, no worries, I have been trying to land this FOREVER hehe
[13:50] <dobey> yes, but new python, gcc, and qt all at the same time == much pain
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, is a personal thing now
[13:50] <mandel> kenvandine, do we know anything about the installation service?
[13:50] <dobey> mandel: there is no installation service
[13:50]  * kenvandine wants
[13:50] <mandel> dobey, but there were talks, or am I making it up?
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, do you know about the call forwarding backend side? or is that one for jgdx?
[13:53] <dobey> mandel: we talked about it yes
[13:53] <mandel> ack
[13:53] <kenvandine> seb128, jgdx knows the most about that
[13:53] <kenvandine> seb128, and he's out on holiday
[13:54] <dobey> mandel: there /is/ a shell script used/provided by the store scope to install things, and updates /should/ use that same script to do the updates installs; but i don't know if that has been done or not
[13:54] <seb128> kenvandine, k, no hurry, I just tried to play with it, when I enable it and set a number it just auto turn off without displaying an error
[13:55] <mandel> dobey, ack
[13:55] <kenvandine> seb128, grrr...
[13:56] <seb128> kenvandine, does it work for you?
[13:56] <kenvandine> it did last week :)
[13:56] <seb128> well maybe it's my SIMs or something
[13:56] <kenvandine> he just fixed a bunch of stuff in that a couple weeks ago
[13:56] <kenvandine> well, i think it can be a little flaky depending on carrier
[13:56] <dobey> mandel: and now we're in this stated between having/maintaining clicks, and switching to snaps, so unlikely we'll get such a service for clicks
[13:57] <kenvandine> in testing it a few weeks ago i did run into some cases where it didn't work, and managed to reproduce it with the ofono test scripts
[13:57] <kenvandine> there's an ofono bug for it
[13:57] <seb128> kenvandine, it should at least give errors in the ui
[13:57] <kenvandine> but last week i actually used it and it worked :)
[13:57] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, syslog has
[14:00] <seb128> ofonod[1767]: ril_call_barring_query_cb: query failed, err: GENERIC_FAILURE
[14:00] <seb128> which I guess is an issue
[14:00] <kenvandine> seb128, bug 1455574
[14:00] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:00] <kenvandine> looks like he was waiting for more feedback from me :)
[14:01] <seb128> yeah
[14:01] <seb128> doit! :-)à
[14:01] <mardy> jdstrand: hi! It's not super urgent, but when you have time please let me know your opinion on bug 1478514
[14:01]  * kenvandine adds a todo :)
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, is your "call forwarding" listing the different sections with checkboxes?
[14:03] <seb128> I only have one item here to enter a number
[14:03] <kenvandine> seb128, yes
[14:03] <seb128> weird :-/
[14:03] <kenvandine> maybe your sim doesn't support them all
[14:03] <kenvandine> not sure if we have the logic in there to be that smart, but perhaps :)
[14:03] <seb128> kenvandine, the list modem script list numbers from the sim for the different categories
[14:04] <kenvandine> seb128, if you check the call forwarding for every call i think it hides the rest
[14:04] <kenvandine> so if that's set, you don't see the rest
[14:04] <kenvandine> i think
[14:06] <seb128> kenvandine, the script outputs
[14:06] <seb128> VoiceBusy call forwarding rule is: +31684000130
[14:06] <seb128> VoiceUnconditional call forwarding rule disabled
[14:06] <seb128> ForwardingFlagOnSim call forwarding rule is: 0
[14:07] <kenvandine> seb128, so i'd think it would show them all
[14:07] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, but it shows the switch as disable
[14:07] <kenvandine> ugh
[14:07] <seb128> and enabling it in shows only a "enter number" line
[14:07]  * ogra_ now finally knows in which IRC logs to look up seb128's landline number
[14:07] <kenvandine> so somehow it state is seriously wrong :/
[14:08] <kenvandine> seb128, anything in the upstart log?
[14:08] <kenvandine> maybe a libqofono problem
[14:08] <seb128> ogra_, lol, that's a preset number in a prepaid sim :-)
[14:08] <ogra_> lol
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, nothing useful in the log
[14:08] <kenvandine> :/
[14:08] <kenvandine> working here
[14:08] <seb128> kenvandine, the "summary" label on the phone panel is "some calls"
[14:08] <seb128> so the code sees it's set for some numbers
[14:09] <seb128> kenvandine, anyway, I guess I'm going to debug a bit and file a bug for jgdx
[14:09] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[14:09] <kenvandine> sthat means it thinks the unconditional isn't set... but it sounds like the UI thinks it is
[14:09] <kenvandine> seb128, thx!
[14:09] <seb128> yw!
[14:09] <kenvandine> seb128, i just confirmed it's working for me :)
[14:10] <kenvandine> so it must have something to do with some state you're in, so hopefully not affecting tons of people
[14:10] <seb128> yeah
[14:29] <dpm> seb128, you can turn off the upstream template by marking it as disabled for each series. E.g. untick "Template is active" in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/+templates, but there is no way to redirect translators to the distro
[14:29] <seb128> dpm, do you recommend doing that?
[14:30] <AbuDhar> what is the ubuntu store called? :D
[14:30] <Elleo> kenvandine: the keyboard test fixes have finished building in silo 2, the MRs it includes are https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/fix-1477901/+merge/265839 and https://code.launchpad.net/~michael-sheldon/ubuntu-keyboard/fix-autopilot-layout-contains-key/+merge/265964
[14:30] <AbuDhar> uApp explorer ? :D
[14:30] <AbuDhar> can I check all apps there?
[14:32] <dpm> seb128, I'd rather recommend updating the upstream template, so that translators can always work with the latest strings there. But generally the complaint from developers is that it's a burden to keep the .pot up-to-date. I'd still advocate for keeping upstream translations enabled, but ultimately, it's the maintainer's decision if maintaining the upstream .pot is too much of an overhead
[14:33] <seb128> dpm, right, we went there, having to manual update leads to constant outdated templates and missing strings
[14:33] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[14:33] <Laney> Could get the train to do it
[14:33] <Elleo> kenvandine: just noticed there was a test failure in CI relating to the shift latch test on the first MR, so maybe hold off until I have a chance to look into that in more detail
[14:34] <Elleo> kenvandine: might just be flakey timing on double pressing the shift, but since it's so related to what it fixes I want to be sure
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, yeah, that would be nice, if only there was a standard way to update the template :-/
[14:34] <Laney> File a feature request asking for a way to run a script just before building the source package
[14:34] <Laney> Then in that you can do update template; commit
[14:35] <seb128> I guess we could make it similar to dh_translation for standard packages
[14:35] <seb128> then need a way for custom rules
[14:35] <Laney> and it'll push with that new commit
[14:35] <seb128> yeah
[14:35] <seb128> dpm, ^ do you know if something similar was discussed before?
[14:36] <Laney> yeah or a tick box to do it if it's standard I guess
[14:36] <AbuDhar> I need to find out what apps haven't been made.
[14:37] <lotuspsychje> AbuDhar: you can make an nmap scanner ap for me :p
[14:37] <seb128> AbuDhar, https://uappexplorer.com/
[14:39] <popey> lotuspsychje: that exists
[14:39] <AbuDhar> brb
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> popey: whats it called?
[14:40]  * ogra_ would like htop ;)
[14:40] <ogra_> (as click app indeed)
[14:40] <lotuspsychje> ogra_: nice idea
[14:41] <ogra_> still waiting for a re-usable terminal widget that we can just use
[14:41] <Laney> vte
[14:41] <Laney> oh wait :)
[14:41] <ogra_> haha
[14:46] <seb128> dpm, do you have a list of what needs to be translated somewhere? https://translations.launchpad.net/libusermetrics/ seems having few translations, unsure if that's because it's not listed where it should or if the priority on launchpad is wrong?
[14:47] <popey> seb128: http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/ ?
[14:48] <seb128> popey, I looked around that like the headers send to standard launchpad pages and the stats don't include a list of components
[14:49] <seb128> popey, where do I need to click?
[14:49] <seb128> popey, like http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/fr has no useful info
[14:49] <popey> it usually lists apps at the bottom
[14:49] <popey> http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/en_GB like that
[14:49] <seb128> and http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid/fr has a TypeError
[14:50] <popey> bummer, will need dpm for that 🙂
[14:50] <seb128> popey, do you get that error as well?
[14:51] <popey> yes
[14:51] <seb128> k
[14:51] <seb128> do you know if there is a bugtracker for that site?
[14:52] <popey> there is a filebug link at the bottom (of working pages)
[14:52] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations-stats/+filebug
[14:54] <dpm> seb128, popey, sorry, in between calls. IIRC I didn't add libusermetrics as most of the strings were non-user-visible error messages
[14:54] <seb128> dpm, k, indeed it has like 30 strings and only the "No data source available" is user visible that I can tell
[14:55] <seb128> but it can be quite visible
[14:55] <seb128> though there is a design bug that it's not a nice one to display so maybe they are going to fix is so it doesn't display anymore
[14:55] <seb128> dpm, thanks
[14:55] <dpm> popey, seb128, I haven't implemented a feature to unhide the translated packages, but a workaround to see the apps/services to be translated is to look at a language with no translations: http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/wily/zun
[14:56] <seb128> dpm, thanks :-)
[15:22] <mhall119> ogra_: man, you make one little statement on G+, and suddenly you're everywhere :)
[15:22] <ogra_> lovely, aint it ? :P
[15:51] <cimi> seb128, hey seb! I bought a new bluetooth keyboard to work on the pocket desktop, and system settings fail to pair because they prompt the wrong bluetooth auth method, do you have time tomorrow to help me debugging it?
[15:51] <seb128> cimi, yeah, sure
[15:51] <cimi> (works on desktop, not on ubuntu touch)
[15:51] <seb128> what do you call "wrong method"?
[15:52] <cimi> seb128, on desktop, android, ios, when I try to pair it asks me 6 numbers to type on the keyboard and press enter
[15:52] <cimi> seb128, on ubuntu touch, I have a notification with "enter pin" and 0000 in the entry
[15:52] <seb128> can you enter the 6 digits number?
[15:53] <seb128> oh, I see what you mean
[15:53] <seb128> k
[15:53] <cimi> yeah
[16:05] <seb128> dpm, did the filenames on http://people.canonical.com/~dpm/data/ubuntu-l10n/ change?
[16:07] <dpm> seb128, not that I know of recently, let me check
[16:07] <seb128> dpm, langpack-o-matic tries to open "vivid-potemplate-..." and the files are named "ubuntu_vivid_potemplate"
[16:09] <dpm> seb128, we changed the names (by appending the distro name) when ubuntu-rtm was first created, so that the stats site and langpack-o-matic could support ubuntu and derived distros, but that was quite a while ago
[16:09] <seb128> dpm, k, I wonder if the code to read priorities got buggy since
[16:09] <seb128> there was a try/except with rtm handling code in there
[16:10] <seb128> but that bails out now, which I guess is because rtm got deprecated
[16:11] <seb128> dpm, also the touch script look for priority > 1500 and glib20 has 1300, should that be increased in launchpad?
[16:11] <dpm> seb128, not sure what's going on on the langpack-o-matic side of things. on the people.u.c location only the ubuntu_* and ubuntu-rtm_* data dumps are being updated
[16:11] <dpm> as the other naming is deprecated
[16:12] <seb128> dpm, I guess langpack-o-matic just needs updating
[16:12] <seb128> dpm, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/langpack-o-matic/main/view/head:/import#L392
[16:13] <seb128> dpm, I'm going to wait for pitti to be back to check if the rtm fallback case is still needed
[16:14] <seb128> dpm, what about the priority? should glib be bumped to 1600 or something?
[16:15] <dpm> (sorry, otp again)
[16:23] <kenvandine> Elleo, i have silo 2 installed now, will test anyway
[16:25] <dpm> seb128, yeah, it might make sense to bump the priority to 1600 to make it shippable by langpack-o-matic
[16:25] <seb128> dpm, can you do that?
[16:26] <dpm> seb128, sure
[16:27] <seb128> dpm, thanks :-)
[16:27] <seb128> dpm, sorry for all the pings today!
[16:27] <dpm> seb128, no worries, just came back from a conference, so I had to do a lot of catch up anyway :)
[16:28] <seb128> dpm, I hope the conf was good :-)
[16:28] <dpm> seb128, bumped priorities for glib20 on vivid and wily. Yeah, I was at the Community Leadership Summit and OSCON, all very good :)
[16:28] <seb128> great :-)
[16:28] <seb128> thanks again
[16:35] <kenvandine> Elleo, was the settings test you saw that failed in the phone tests?
[16:37] <AbuDhar> How does Bazaar differ from git?
[16:40] <seb128> AbuDhar, http://wiki.bazaar.canonical.com/BzrVsGit
[16:47] <Elleo> kenvandine: nah, it was a keyboard test that failed in CI, but had passed fine on device
[16:47] <AbuDhar> seb128, reading.
[16:47] <kenvandine> Elleo, you had mentioned earlier that you did see one of the settings test fail right?
[16:48] <kenvandine> much earlier :)
[16:48] <Elleo> kenvandine: oh yes, a checkbox test
[16:48] <Elleo> I think there were two failures
[16:48] <kenvandine> i just saw that in the phone tests, test_call_fwd_when_unreachable_sim_2
[16:48] <Elleo> yeah, that was it
[16:48] <Elleo> unfortunately I've rebooted since then so I'm not sure which the other was
[16:48] <kenvandine> no worries
[16:49] <Elleo> it failed with a "True != False" but no mention of specific components
[16:49] <kenvandine> if i run just that test it passes
[16:49] <kenvandine> yeah, that's what i just saw
[16:53] <kenvandine> 12:50:46.885 WARNING backends:244 - Your query 'Query(b'/maliit-server/QQuickView/Keyboard/QQuickItem/QQuickMouseArea/QQuickItem/QQuickItem/KeyboardContainer/QQuickLoader/KeyPad[id=58]//CharKey')' returned a lot of data (28 items). This is likely to be slow. You may want to consider optimising your query to return fewer items.
[16:53] <kenvandine> Elleo, ^^^ i've never noticed that warning before
[16:54] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah, that's normal jgdx was asking about it last week; it's due to autopilot requesting all the keys in the current layout
[16:55] <kenvandine> ok
[16:55] <Elleo> kenvandine: it then caches them so it only does that lookup once per layout for a whole test suite though
[16:55] <kenvandine> cool
[16:55] <Elleo> kenvandine: it's actually that caching that was causing the symbol != characters and None key issues, as it was just keeping one cache of either characters or symbols for all layouts
[16:56] <kenvandine> ah
[16:56] <Elleo> kenvandine: so if it loaded a numeric layout first it only ever knew about numbers, even when the normal layout was displayed because it thought it already had it cached
[16:56] <kenvandine> i see
[16:56] <kenvandine> thx for fixing it :)
[16:56] <Elleo> and if loaded the other way around it tried to go to the symbol layout to get at numbers (and the number layouts don't have symbol layouts)
[16:56] <Elleo> no worries :)
[16:57] <kenvandine> i'll add my review to the merge proposals soon
[16:57] <kenvandine> running another set of tests
[16:57] <Elleo> kenvandine: it looks like that shift latch issue is a genuine new bug though, so I'm going to need to fix that before that first MR can be reviewed
[16:57] <mzanetti> jdstrand, seems that installing apps with the new apparmor permission on older devices makes it fail to generate an apparmor profile. is that intended?
[16:57] <Elleo> for some reason autopilot ends up pressing the shift button 3 times
[16:57] <Elleo> so it goes to capslock and then switches out of it again
[16:57] <kenvandine> Elleo, which one?  fix-1477901?
[16:57] <Elleo> kenvandine: yeah
[16:57] <kenvandine> ok
[16:59] <kenvandine> Elleo, i think your other branch fixes what was causing me the biggest problem
[16:59] <kenvandine> although the shift was causing a problem too
[16:59] <kenvandine> but the layout changes was hosing everything :)
[16:59] <jdstrand> mzanetti: that isn't intended-- but how old are the devices? what new apparmor permission? how are you installing the apps? are you reinstalling them?
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, the device image is OTA-4
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, I've added keep-display-on to machines-vs-machines
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, now I'm getting reports that the app "crashes at startup"
[17:00] <Elleo> kenvandine: okay, cool
[17:00] <mzanetti> jdstrand, I've investigated, seems that installing the app on OTA-4 devices through the store makes it install without complaining but it just doesn't laucnher
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: oh I see-- the device must have apparmor-easyprof-ubuntu 1.3.13
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, a bit of searching revealed that there is no apparmor profile in /userdata/system-data/var/lib/apparmor/profiles
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: this is a new policy group that was added
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, yeah... I would have assumed it would just skip if it doesn't know what to do with it
[17:01] <mzanetti> jdstrand, but instead the complete profile file seems missing
[17:01] <jdstrand> mzanetti: it would fail to generate the profile in this case
[17:02] <jdstrand> mzanetti: it skips the profile, not the policy group
[17:02] <mzanetti> problem is, I don't have any way to depend on it (unless I'm missing something)
[17:02] <mzanetti> I can only depend on framework 15.04, which is satisfied on OTA-4 too
[17:03] <jdstrand> mzanetti: you are correct. people have to upgrade to ota-5 and there is no way for an app developer to depend on that
[17:03] <popey> 🙁
[17:03] <jdstrand> so either you back out the change or tell people to upgrade
[17:03] <mzanetti> that smells like we need a change of the process :)
[17:04] <jdstrand> it was a very unusual case
[17:04] <mzanetti> actually not
[17:04] <mzanetti> maybe for apparmor
[17:04] <jdstrand> normally we don't change policy in this manner unless it goes with a new framework
[17:04] <mzanetti> but we're frequently adding stuff without bumping the framework
[17:04] <mzanetti> i.e. the whole shell-rotations tuff
[17:05] <jdstrand> but there was a lot of proessure to get this in stable-phone-overlay
[17:05]  * jdstrand is only talking about apparmor)
[17:05] <mzanetti> I would think we'd need to bump the framework version with every OTA
[17:05] <jdstrand> why are people still on ota-4?
[17:05] <mzanetti> dunno
[17:05] <mzanetti> but there are some
[17:06] <mzanetti> I guess my mum didn't upgrade her phone yet
[17:06] <jdstrand> I think that is the primary issue
[17:06] <mzanetti> my gf didnt upgrade her tablet yet
[17:06] <jdstrand> ota-4 has been out for... 2 months?
[17:06] <mzanetti> yeah well, talking about OTA-5
[17:06] <mzanetti> but still
[17:06] <jdstrand> oh right
[17:06] <jdstrand> so a couple weeks
[17:06] <mzanetti> I mean... there are devices out there that, for example some one installs and the actual user doesn't bother with updates
[17:06] <jdstrand> so, yeah, either wait or tell the reporters to upgrade. that is the best we can do atm
[17:07] <mzanetti> sure... just thinking about the bigger picture
[17:07] <mzanetti> to me this sounds like a problem we need to solve in the long-run
[17:07] <jdstrand> I acknowledge what you are saying
[17:07] <jdstrand> but we don't support old versions
[17:08] <jdstrand> so people should roll with the updates
[17:08] <mzanetti> hmm... not sure if it's that easy... at some point for example some hardware won't be able to upgrade
[17:08] <jdstrand> and if they don't, they might get in trouble
[17:08] <mzanetti> we can't just give them app-updates that break the already installed ones
[17:09] <jdstrand> once ota-5 was out, ota-4 was out of support (except to upgrade to ota-5). same with 14.09
[17:09]  * jdstrand notes that he is merely stating what the decisions were from the past
[17:09] <mzanetti> :)
[17:10] <jdstrand> but there is no concept of point releases for this or for snappy
[17:10] <jdstrand> you are on a channel
[17:10] <jdstrand> and you need to get the updates for that channel
[17:10] <jdstrand> right now, quite a few things in the platform are changing and the channel is getting rather big updates without framework changes
[17:10] <jdstrand> which I agree is problematic
[17:11] <jdstrand> I expect these sorts of framework violations to be less frequent
[17:12] <jdstrand> as the platform matures and we can deliver framework breaking features with a new framework
[17:13] <mzanetti> yep... but then, if we only release 2 framework bumps a year, but an OTA every month, that means 10 out of 12 OTAs could only do bug-fixes
[17:13] <mzanetti> which doesn't sound like the solution
[17:13] <mzanetti> the frameworks should be "framework-ota-5" instead of "framework-15.04"
[17:14] <mzanetti> or something
[17:14] <mzanetti> anyhow... nothing we can change right now... will to summarize this up for some higher ups
[17:14] <jdstrand> I guess it depends on how we plan to update the platform
[17:15] <jdstrand> also, those 10 out of the 12 don't have to be bug fixes-- they just couldn't introduce features for app developers to use
[17:16] <mzanetti> fair enough
[17:16] <jdstrand> this seems like something that should be brought up for discussion on the list
[17:16] <mzanetti> yep
[17:16] <jdstrand> really, the problem is we are violating our own policy
[17:17] <jdstrand> well, and that people aren't upgrading
[17:17] <jdstrand> but mostly the former
[17:17] <jdstrand> the latter just avoids problems
[17:17] <jdstrand> (ie, if everyone upgrades, no one will notice we are violating our own policies)
[17:17] <jjohansen> jdstrand: we do have a plan to fix this in apparmor without having to bump policy frameworks
[17:18] <jdstrand> jjohansen: I'm not sure what 'this' you are referring to. you mean if an abstraction is missing, keep on going?
[17:19] <jjohansen> jdstrand: yes, but more than that. To be able to deal with new rule types etc that are not understood
[17:19]  * jdstrand notes that this particular issue wasn't a missing abstraction, but that click-apparmor noticed that keep-display-on wasn't on the device and didn't generate policy
[17:20] <jdstrand> right
[17:20] <jdstrand> I mean, we could also adjust click-apparmor to instead of failing to generate the profile to instead skip a missing policy group
[17:21] <jjohansen> right, we need a plan for that layer as well
[17:21] <jdstrand> but that doesn't help mzanetti cause that would require an ota upgrade that users aren't performing. also, it doesn't solve if the template is missing, etc. plus, that may not be the right thing to do policy wise
[17:22] <jdstrand> so we are currently erring on the safe-side and assuming we'll follow our own framework policies (which in this case was an invalid assumption)
[17:23] <jjohansen> which is why need to look at this again
[17:26] <AbuDhar> do we need a snapchat app? :D
[17:26] <jdstrand> I think we'll know more how to proceed when this is discussed on the list.
[17:27] <jdstrand> it's bigger than apparmor (eg, that aforementioned shell rotation)
[17:27] <jjohansen> sure
[17:27] <ogra_> AbuDhar, i think there is an alernative (soonsnap from robru ) but no real snapchat yet
[17:30] <AbuDhar> I see ogra_ ...
[17:30] <AbuDhar> I don't like its GUI though
[17:30] <AbuDhar> doesn't look like snapchat's at all
[17:31] <ogra_> well, write another one then :)
[17:31] <AbuDhar> I will start with an app that doesn't exist yet
[17:31] <ogra_> it isnt like robru has a monopoly here ;)
[17:31] <AbuDhar> lol
[17:36] <Paul_> hi
[17:54] <AbuDhar> hi
[17:57] <robru> ogra_: oh please I deserve no credit. My thing is a zero-effort webapp wrapper around aquaris' excellent soonsnap.com.
[18:05] <AbuDhar> well at least you did that :P
[18:07] <AbuDhar> Web apps are HTML5 apps and Apps are native apps on uApp Explorer right?
[18:14] <cwayne> mhall119: should d.u.c point to 15.04 docs as stable now instead of 14.10?
[18:14] <beuno> ahayzen, web apps are just links to pages, and apps are native
[18:29] <AbuDhar> I don't see the benefits of web apps.. why not just use the browser then?
[18:30] <AbuDhar> beuno
[18:33] <beuno> AbuDhar, convenience, it's a faster bookmark
[18:36] <mhall119> cwayne: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/current/ points to 15.04 now, yes
[18:37] <mhall119> cwayne: for QML, HTML5 and C++ docs
[18:38] <cwayne> oops, sorry
[18:38] <cwayne> i could've sworn i saw a 14.10 somewhere
[18:38] <mhall119> cwayne: 14.10 docs are still there, just not aliased to "current" anymore
[18:39] <mhall119> cwayne: https://developer.ubuntu.com/api/apps/qml/ shows the aliases in parenthesis
[18:42] <juzzlin> Is it possible to create an "offline" WebGL game with e.g. three.js for Ubuntu touch? or do the web apps always have to pull data from a server?
[18:44] <mhall119> juzzlin: you can make a local HTML5 app
[18:44] <mhall119> in that case it's not a "webapp", just an html5 app
[18:44] <juzzlin> ok, great
[18:45] <mhall119> juzzlin: see https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/apps/html-5/ for more info
[18:45] <juzzlin> thanks
[19:10] <AbuDhar> but it is possible to make HTML5 that are not just like regular web pages
[21:11] <AbuDhar> can I ask something? what app do you think is missing from the Ubuntu app store?
[21:14] <k1l_> whatsapp :)
[21:21] <AbuDhar> okay.. let me check if whatsapp has an API
[21:25] <AbuDhar> http://mashable.com/2015/03/25/whatsapp-developers-api/
[21:25] <BOHverkill> who needs whatsapp?
[21:25] <AbuDhar> those who use it? :D
[21:25]  * BOHverkill do not use whatsapp
[21:26] <BOHverkill> AbuDhar: here is a list of apps/scopes https://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/2015/06/27/ubuntu-app-scope-wishlist-june-2015/
[21:26] <AbuDhar> thanks.. that list is nice to have.
[21:27] <AbuDhar> later guys.
[21:28] <cwayne> whatsapp has pretty much the opposite of an api
[21:28] <cwayne> they actively dont want people to write apps for it
[21:29] <BOHverkill> its facebook
[21:30] <k1l_> yes, but they only want you to use their site and their apps to use whatsapp.
[21:30] <AbuDhar> we need AdBlock :P
[21:31] <AbuDhar> and an IRC client :)
[21:31] <BOHverkill> iirc there is an irc client
[21:32] <AbuDhar> not according to that list. :P not a native one at least.
[21:32] <BOHverkill> k that could be
[21:33] <AbuDhar> maybe a VLC client would be nice as well.
[21:33] <BOHverkill> yes that is on my list :P
[21:34] <AbuDhar> also native Dropbox client? :)
[21:34] <BOHverkill> ther is on
[21:34] <BOHverkill> *one
[21:36] <AbuDhar> We need an AirBNB app for Ubuntu right? :D
[21:37] <AbuDhar> Remote Desktop App would be so nice.. I want to write a VNC wrapper.
[22:06] <AbuDhar> how is the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition? would you recommend it?


[06:14] <flocculant> Unit193: I did that for you
[06:15] <Unit193> \o/
[06:15] <flocculant> mostly because you can do all that packagy stuff but not edit a wiki page :p
[06:15] <Unit193> Wikis are hard, or at least logging in is. :3
[06:15] <flocculant> I think  they might have looked at that
[06:16] <flocculant> whilst coming up with all ways to make it harder :p
[06:17] <flocculant> not really sure milestones needs to be there - given that qa and tech lead and web lead say no to b1 and no-one else cares enough to comment
[06:17] <flocculant> and I'll always -1 any raspberry pi thing officially
[06:17] <flocculant> so can just wait for the workhorse ping :p
[07:31] <flocculant> bluesabre: re thunar and testing - been thinking about this - not sure quite what we can do with the current testcase - other than ask people to sit there copy/pasting till they see problems - then how long do we ask them to do it for ;)
[07:32] <flocculant> or we could add a very specific testcase - sit there copy/pasting > how long did it take to crash on you?
[07:32] <flocculant> did it crash quicker post-crash?
[07:32] <flocculant> or: did you give up and use a different file manager :p
[08:33] <Unit193> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1576576
[10:40] <bluesabre> flocculant: if the gui automation (whats that called again) worked with gtk2, we could easily make a script to test it
[10:56] <flocculant> yea  - but it doesn't :p
[11:09] <flocculant> and I've given up thinking about it tbh ;)
[11:16] <flocculant> knome: when you've got 10 minutes or so and it's not lunch time can we haz chat about buildlog and tracker thingymajig :)
[11:33] <bluesabre> flocculant: I'll figure something out
[12:53] <knome> flocculant, i'll be on and off today, but feel free to talk about something and i'll reply when i'm back ;)
[17:55] <flocculant> knome: no rush - really don't want a disjointed discussion
[18:21] <flocculant> knome: added some about this to very top of http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntuqa-y-cycle
[18:46] <Unit193> ochosi: In case you didn't see, there was also "interesting" discussions with that link to the bug.
[18:46] <flocculant> tried hard not to ramble too much
[18:47] <flocculant> Unit193: in -desktop or on bug?
[18:47] <Unit193> -devel, actually.
[18:47] <flocculant> oh right - well that just seems really pointless for me to idle in :)
[18:48] <ochosi> Unit193: uhm when what where?
[18:48] <ochosi> (sry, i vaguely remember you posting a link to a gtk3.20 lp bug today but i was too busy @work to read9
[18:49] <Unit193> ochosi: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1576576 I linked to this, there was discussion in -devel at 04:21 local time.
[18:49] <flocculant> evening ochosi :)
[18:49] <Unit193> Basically a GNOME guy and unity peeps talking about if they're going to update this cycle.
[18:49] <ochosi> right
[18:49] <ochosi> well no worries i'll work on the greybird rewrite soon
[18:50] <ochosi> so we'll be good either way
[18:50] <ochosi> the only thing that could bite us is if xfce applications inject css
[18:50] <ochosi> cause that will fail
[18:50] <Unit193> Unity wasn't so interested in updating gtk3, actually.  It was interesting, they have nobody at all that really understands themes now. :P
[18:50] <ochosi> or: will need patches for 3.20 compat
[18:50] <ochosi> yeah, i know. i talked to larsu at fosdem before he left the desktop team and canonical altogether
[18:51] <ochosi> basically they'll have to switch to adwaita soon if they don't find anyone who maintains their themes
[18:51] <ochosi> would have to be a community member from what i see
[18:52] <Unit193> Oh?  Wow, that's lovely.
[18:52] <flocculant> mmm
[18:52] <Unit193> ochosi: Know if satya will be working on Numix? :P
[18:52] <ochosi> i think they're already working on it
[18:53] <ochosi> so numix should be good i guess
[18:53] <Unit193> Eric seems to have taken an interest in Blackbird, no?
[19:35] <Unit193> menulibre 2.0.7-1.1 uploaded by Samuel Henrique Oltramari Pinto (SamuelOPH) (Closes: #811324)
[19:38] <nairwolf> Hi guys (and specially flocculant), can you look this bug and see if you are able to reproduce it, please ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-appfinder/+bug/1576771
[19:38] <pleia2> flocculant: g+ and fb done re: irc sessions
[19:38] <pleia2> I'll try to keep an eye on it to see if people yay in those places ;)
[19:39] <flocculant> pleia2: thanks :)
[19:40] <flocculant> I think I see fb stuff - but maybe not
[19:40] <flocculant> pleia2: re  counting - I'll probably ask for a bump in a week or so - then see what 'yay's' we had - then follow up
[19:41] <flocculant> I will follow up with either a 'nope then' or more detail
[19:41] <pleia2> okie
[19:43] <flocculant> pleia2: freudian almost  ... "but you're welcome to follow this path. Since our team handling the official social media is very small[0"
[19:43] <flocculant> :)
[19:44] <flocculant> nairwolf: I saw that bug - not looked in detail yet - will try tomorrow if I get chance
[19:44] <nairwolf> ok, so we'll talk to that tomorrow if I can be here also. (Should be outstide this saturday)
[19:45] <nairwolf> dinner time, see you.
[21:09] <knome> flocculant, we probably want to just look at the source (not LP) for the builds, should be relatively simple to fetch that data
[21:10] <flocculant> mmk
[21:16] <nairwolf> knome: which sources ?
[21:16] <knome> nairwolf, build log
[21:18] <knome> flocculant, also left a comment on the pad
[21:20] <nairwolf> oh, ok
[21:21] <knome> nairwolf, if you are very interested in *any* discussions happening on this channel, i'd suggest you to either 1) get a shell so you can get a bnc/client always stay on the channel so you can check the backlog 2) start reading the logs found from irclogs.ubuntu.com
[21:28] <nairwolf> knome: Usually, I'm reading logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com, but this time, I didn't
[21:32] <flocculant> knome: yea - thought second might be better
[21:34] <flocculant> re multiple builds - they're only likely to happen when milestone - or someone from release team triggers a rebuild
[21:34] <knome> yeah, but the tracker doesn't know when that happens
[21:34] <flocculant> s/likely/going to afaik
[21:34] <flocculant> nope
[21:34] <flocculant> all tracker knows is date.1
[21:34] <knome> so it needs to check a possible .1/.x rebuild every time
[21:34] <knome> indeed
[21:34] <flocculant> or shows
[21:34] <knome> the tracker i'm referring to here is dev.xubuntu.org
[21:35] <flocculant> oh
[21:35] <knome> but sure, the iso tracker too
[21:35] <flocculant> well I'm referring to what shows on iso
[21:35] <knome> mhm
[21:35] <flocculant> all that aside
[21:35] <flocculant> in fact - we 'could' end up in the same position as we would get from autotest
[21:36] <flocculant> eg build builds - build lands on iso tracker - dev tracker says 'yay'
[21:36] <flocculant> but it doesn't actually work
[21:37] <flocculant> the only way to get around that is Last options thinking:
[21:37] <knome> well, i was thinking about something like asking http headers to see if a file exists
[21:37] <flocculant> if that's possible
[21:37] <flocculant> from iso.tracker?
[21:38] <bluesabre> evening alllll
[21:38] <knome> ugh, no, i most likely won't touch the ISO tracker :P
[21:38] <knome> but i can talk to matthew in SF in june...
[21:38] <flocculant> knome: mmm
[21:39] <flocculant> who's matthew?
[21:39] <flocculant> bluesabre: evening :)
[21:39] <knome> MatthewAllen, from code-in
[21:39] <knome> didn't he poke the tracker too?
[21:39] <bluesabre> hey flocculant knome
[21:39] <flocculant> knome: well - a positive from the image test on the tracker is the only real positive
[21:39] <knome> 'lo bluesabre
[21:39] <flocculant> all the others are positives that we have a build
[21:40] <knome> yep
[21:40] <flocculant> and if the build includes a broken ubiquity ...
[21:40] <knome> ;)=
[21:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: /lastlog menulibre, just an FYI.
[21:40] <flocculant> knome: if it's possible to do - the iso tracker would be my preference unfortunately :p
[21:41] <flocculant> assuming we can move cron time of build
[21:41] <knome> flocculant, ack
[21:41] <knome> let's see
[21:41] <flocculant> ok
[21:41] <knome> i need to think this with no smudge on the brain :P
[21:41] <flocculant> anyway - I think we're both up to speed on the 'what' at least :)
[21:41] <knome> and by smudge i mean snot
[21:41] <flocculant> :(
[21:41] <flocculant> still full of it then
[21:42] <flocculant> :p
[21:42] <knome> well, kind of the aftermath
[21:42] <knome> didn't have much of it coming out when i was "really" sick
[21:42] <flocculant> almost worst
[21:42] <knome> yep
[21:42] <flocculant> yea - pretty normal state of affairs in my experience
[21:42] <knome> but that happens, so...
[21:42] <flocculant> :)
[21:43] <flocculant> bluesabre: so good luck with gtk2 and autotest :p
[22:21] <bluesabre> flocculant: probably going to look at other options
[22:25] <nairwolf> I think I've discovered a bug on Mousepad.
[22:26] <nairwolf> Open mousepad, write some stupid thoughts, then do alt+f4 and click on "Do not save" it's not highlighted as other options
[22:26] <nairwolf> no, do not click on "do not save", but move the cursor with the keyboard to "do not save"
[22:27] <nairwolf> Do you see this bug ?
[22:28] <bluesabre> I do see that bug
[22:29] <bluesabre> feel free to report it :)
[22:29] <nairwolf> ok
[22:34] <nairwolf> Done : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mousepad/+bug/1576890
[22:34] <nairwolf> As I'm not an native english speaker tell me if something isn't clear
[22:34] <nairwolf> I will edit my description
[22:35] <bluesabre> I'd say that it's not highlighted in the same way the other buttons are
[22:36] <nairwolf> It's a graphical issue, so it seems hard for me to solve this bug. But, I'll try to see what I can do
[22:36] <nairwolf> Next week, I will be in holydays, so I should start to work the next week
[22:37] <nairwolf> ok, thanks
[22:38] <nairwolf> I've edited the bug report
[22:38] <nairwolf> Now, it's time to go to bed. See you bluesabre ;)


[00:01] <Keybuk> kees: gcc probably doesn't like being compiled with -foh-hai -fi-can-haz-securitah
[00:02] <mneptok> make --onan=true
[00:02] <kees> Keybuk: the compiler part doesn't seem to mind, but the testsuite complains in parts
[00:03] <kees> slangasek: gcc-4.3 wc -l on rules* is 10090.  mpich is just 292 :)
[00:04] <slangasek> oh, well, there's that
[00:04] <slangasek> though maybe it wasn't mpich, maybe it was some package that build-deps on mpich
[00:05] <slangasek> hdf5, maybe
[00:53] <pwnguin> kees: what about gcc-avr? surely cross compilation is more confusing
[00:54] <slangasek> I think gcc-avr inherits all of its specialness from the gcc rules
[00:54] <kees> pwnguin: gcc does ppc cross compiles too.  :)  but yeah, I probably shouldn't try to nominate "2nd most confusing" I bet there are tons
[00:55] <pwnguin> tinyOS comes to mind
[01:19] <kirkland> pitti: broken links to http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unfixed.html and http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/ubuntu-cve/unchecked.html on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionRequirements
[01:24] <kees> kirkland: I'll fix that, one sec
[01:27] <kees> kirkland, pitti: MIR wiki adjusted.
[01:27] <kirkland> kees: thanks
[02:35] <confused_david> hi
[06:25] <pitti> Good morning
[06:26] <Hobbsee> pitti!
[06:26]  * Hobbsee throws pitti a gummy bear in greeting
[06:26] <pitti> hey Hobbsee!
[06:26] <colo939> morning
[06:26] <pitti> kees: thanks for fixing the wiki
[06:30] <colo939> so are you all members of Ubuntu's development team?
[06:33] <Hobbsee> mostly, yes
[06:34] <colo939> cool, I have to say you guys are really doing a great job
[06:35] <TheMuso> colo939: Thanks for the compliment. It is nice to know our work is appreciated.
[06:36] <colo939> I might be interested in getting involved somewhere in the near future
[06:56] <dholbach> good morning
[07:43] <pitti> bryce: btw, fakesyncs should be Nbuild1, not Nubuntu1, and shouldn't have XSBC-Maintainer
[07:51] <bryce> pitti: ok, I had looked for documentation on how to do fakesyncs but didn't see any so just followed how it had been done previously
[07:51] <pitti> bryce: well, it isn't wrong, but with build1 it's pointed out more explicitly, and it'll get autosynced again as soon as Debian gets a new orig.tar.gz
[07:58] <persia> bryce: General rule is for fakesyncs, only debian/changelog should differ from Debian (and better to use *buildN)
[08:10] <dholbach> hi seb128
[08:11] <seb128> hello dholbach
[08:11] <\sh> moins
[09:05] <asac> pitti: did you do tzdata update?
[09:05] <pitti> asac: yes, why?
[09:05] <asac> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/18981/
[09:06] <pwnguin> heh
[09:06] <asac> pitti: [reed] got his java removed because of it :)
[09:06] <[reed]> I didn't use java anyway ;)
[09:06] <pwnguin> why = ?
[09:06] <pitti> asac, [reed]: seems you don't have hardy-updates for universe?
[09:07] <pitti> Package: tzdata-java
[09:07] <asac> pitti: he says that he has no -proposed at all
[09:07] <pitti> Version: 2008c-1ubuntu0.8.04
[09:07] <pitti> Depends: tzdata (= 2008c-1ubuntu0.8.04)
[09:07] <asac> was tzdata-java updated in -proposed?
[09:07] <pitti> asac: right, for hardy it's in -updates already
[09:07] <[reed]> root@jarodplus:~# cat /etc/apt/sources.list | grep hardy-updates
[09:07] <[reed]> deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted
[09:07] <[reed]> deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted #Added by software-properties
[09:07] <[reed]> deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs hardy-updates main universe
[09:07] <pitti> yes, it was
[09:07] <pitti> [reed]: right, no hardy-updates for universe
[09:07] <asac> ok then its just a transitional thing?
[09:07] <pitti> asac: no, it's not
[09:07] <asac> okay ;)
[09:07] <asac> i see
[09:08] <pitti> asac: this will happen very commonly with sources which build binaries for both main and universe
[09:08] <pwnguin> so they DO exist
[09:08] <pitti> yes, in hardy-updates
[09:08] <persia> Is there a way to reduce the chance of this happening?
[09:08] <pwnguin> (packages that build universe and main)
[09:09] <pitti> well, we could add some sanity checks to update-manager perhaps
[09:09] <persia> pwnguin: Lots of them.  Source is in main, but some of the binaries aren't.
[09:09] <pitti> but either way, update-manager *removing* packages is a bug on its own
[09:09] <asac> [reed]: you appear to not have  universe at all in your sources.list
[09:09] <pitti> mvo: ^ it still does that?
[09:09] <pitti> asac: (NB that he just grepped for hardy-updates, not hardy itself)
[09:09] <persia> pitti: fixing update-manager is a way to reduce the impact, but is it not possible to synchronise the -updates push for all binaries in a single source?
[09:10] <pitti> persia: that's already done
[09:10] <[reed]> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/18984/
[09:10] <persia> Also, update-manager will still remove packages in certain circumstances, where there's no declared dependency.
[09:10] <pitti> persia: but if someone has hardy-updates/main in their sources.list, but not hardy-updates/universe, that won't help him
[09:10] <persia> pitti: I see.  It's a matter of sources.list, rather than the state of the archive.
[09:11] <pwnguin> people.ubuntu.com?
[09:11] <[reed]> dbgsym packages
[09:12] <[reed]> for generating proper, complete stacks in gdb
[09:12] <pwnguin> sure
[09:12] <asac> [reed]: you dont have hardy-updates at all in your sources.list
[09:12] <[reed]> asac: well, I haven't touched this file in a long time
[09:12] <asac> [reed]: err, same parse error on my side :)
[09:12] <persia> asac: "| grep universe"
[09:12] <asac> yeah
[09:13] <pwnguin> unless theres a problem with that, i'd just well paste the whole thing
[09:13] <persia> [reed]: You'll want to add universe to your hardy-updates line.
[09:13] <[reed]> pasting entire file now
[09:13] <asac> [reed]: ++
[09:13] <[reed]> http://paste.ubuntu.com/18987/
[09:14] <[reed]> guess I could remove the Canonical partner archive... added it for parallels
[09:14] <[reed]> hmm
[09:14] <persia> That's not the issue.  You need to mirror lines 6&7 after line 16.
[09:15] <[reed]> I know... I'm thinking out loud
[09:15] <[reed]> :)
[09:15] <asac> mvo: ^^ for the above (20 lines) ... does apturl add the proper section for -updates as well?
[09:16] <pwnguin> proper care and maintaince of source.list is vital for smooth operation ^_^
[09:17] <mvo> asac: generally it does if universe was enabled at the time when apturl was run
[09:17] <[reed]> pwnguin: and you expect some average user that doesn't know Linux at all to know that? ;) (I'm not an average user by any means, but just thinking of all those users who don't understand this stuff)
[09:18] <asac> [reed]: i think pwnguin tried to be sarcastic :)
[09:18] <pwnguin> most "average users" should the software sources tool. which i expect works, but nobody i know uses it
[09:19] <asac> mvo: you mean "... when -updates was enabled when running apturl" ?
[09:20] <asac> mvo: just wonder if he ended up in this state when installing icedtea plugin through apturl
[09:21] <mvo> asac: I haven't seen the apturl line, but if e.g. the sources.list has "hardy universe" and apturl is run with "apturl apt:foo?section=universe" it will not add anything because universe is enabled already.  if it is not in the file, then it will add it and also add -updates
[09:22] <mvo> hm
[09:22] <asac> mvo: hmm. ok, worth a bug? e.g. add universe to -updates if hardy-updates line exists already?
[09:22] <asac> e.g. if user has not opted out of -updates
[09:24] <mvo> feel free, I'm not sure if we can catch all corner cases, but we can try. was the content of the pastebin manully edited? or only through tools like software-properties/apturl etc
[09:24] <mvo> ?
[09:25] <Mirv> asac: yep, no issue
[09:25] <asac> mvo: at least the dbgsym lines were added manually i guess
[09:25] <asac> [reed]: did you do any other manual operations on your sources.list?
[09:26] <[reed]> hmm, probably uncommented stuff over the years
[09:26] <[reed]> back when I first installed edgy
[09:26] <[reed]> or dapper?
[09:26] <[reed]> can't remember
[09:27] <[reed]> hmm, update manager is offering me more updates now
[09:27] <[reed]> :)
[09:27] <[reed]> 33 more updates
[09:27] <[reed]> and half of these are Firefox-related
[09:28] <[reed]> 19 / 33 updates are Firefox related, hah
[09:30] <[reed]> er, 20 of 33.
[09:31] <asac> [reed]: how did you count that?
[09:31] <asac> :)
[09:31] <[reed]> I looked at the changelogs for all 33, plus I know the ones that are related.
[09:43] <pitti> [reed]: please note that people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/ddebs is now called http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/
[09:43] <pitti> this was announced some months ago on u-devel-announce@
[09:43]  * [reed] updates
[10:34] <pecisk> hi people, does FF3 respect /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin? I have set it to swfdec and removed pluginreg.dat from profile folder but it still gets recreated with Adobe Flash as default swf player, as about:plugins shows
[10:35] <pecisk> another question is - is this a bug or expected behaviour?
[10:40] <MacSlow> how do I force the creation of a -dbg package?
[10:40] <pitti> MacSlow: that needs packaging changes
[10:40] <gnomefreak> pecisk: it uses xulrunner-plugins
[10:40] <pitti> MacSlow: however, you can automatically create those -dbgsym packages
[10:40] <pitti> MacSlow: by installing pkg-create-dbgsym and just building the source package once
[10:40] <MacSlow> pitti, anything I need to pass to dpkg-buildpackage?
[10:40] <pitti> MacSlow: no, it's fully automagic
[10:40] <gnomefreak> pecisk: the exact name is off but look for something like that using 1.9
[10:41] <pitti> MacSlow: if you need them for an existing ubuntu package, they shuold be on http://ddebs.ubuntu.com
[10:41] <MacSlow> pitti, no I want to create it for libgksu I'm testing here locally with a patch of my own
[10:41] <pecisk> gnomefreak: ahhhh so, I see. Well, thanks
[10:41] <pitti> MacSlow: ah, then a local build will be fine, yes
[10:41] <gnomefreak> pecisk: np
[10:46] <Riddell> mvo: you seem to have uploaded a SRU for bug 198292, but you havn't made any comment on that bug
[10:46] <Riddell> leading other people to have created other patches
[10:52] <mvo> Riddell: let me check
[10:54] <mvo> Riddell: oh, sorry - yeah, I uploaded it 8 days ago and forgot to mention that in the bug :(
[10:55] <Riddell> mvo: can you attach your debdiff to the bug, then I'll let it through
[10:55] <mvo> ogra: could you please have a look at bug #231104 - sounds like a broken edubuntu applications.menu file, do you know anything about this? is it fixed in later versions?
[10:55] <mvo> Riddell: sure, give me a sec
[10:56] <ogra> mvo, checking
[10:57] <mvo> Riddell: *cough* I think motion was drive-by-fixing on my part, I think I don't have the uploaded bits anymore :/
[10:57] <mvo> iirc it was a very esay fix, this is why I not bothered too much
[10:58] <Riddell> mvo: let me jog your memory http://people.ubuntu.com/~jriddell/motion.debdiff :)
[10:58] <persia> mvo: You could probably reconstruct by downloading from unapproved and hardy, and running debdiff :)
[11:00] <mvo> Riddell: thanks, I'm updating the bugreport now
[11:01] <ogra> mvo, i attached the file, but cant find anything wrong in there (and i know tons of people have used it successfully)
[11:02] <mvo> ogra: thanks, it might be a) bad CD burn b) old CD that contained a bad file
[11:03] <ogra> yeah, i'd guess so... he doesnt say which app he tried to install though
[11:06] <mvo> Riddell: updated the bug
[11:09] <Riddell> mvo: accepted, is it fixed in intrepid?
[11:10] <Riddell> mm "* Fixed: init script hangs on startup" suggests it is, groovy
[11:10] <mvo> Riddell: yes, it got fixed in debian
[11:10] <mvo> Riddell: thanks and sorry for the confusion
[11:40] <asac> pitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/19017/
[11:40] <asac> i think its bug 236115
[11:41] <asac> wasnt in the RC1 bug
[11:41] <asac> just copy over?
[11:41] <pitti> uh, wow, WTF? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/epiphany-extensions/2.22.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> shows it as built for amd64
[11:42] <asac> pitti: well ... it wasnt build when you copied it :(
[11:43] <asac> pitti: let me know what i should do ... i can verify that thing for you so you can copy the rest
[11:44] <pitti> cprov: I think I need your help here
[11:44] <Riddell> doko: how come ca-certificates-java is marked as contrib?  it seems to depend on stuff in universe only
[11:44] <pitti> cprov: ubuntu/pool/main/e/epiphany-extensions/epiphany-extensions_2.22.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS>_amd64.deb exists on drescher, and https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/amd64/epiphany-extensions/2.22.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> looks fine as well, but it isn't published in either hardy-proposed nor hardy-updates
[11:46] <doko> Riddell: ohh, please move it to universe; that was for the debian upload (where the recent upload was done for non-free)
[11:46] <Riddell> doko: ok, accepted
[11:47] <sistpoty|work> Riddell: thanks for the xdg-open hint for tk-brief (oh, and dpkg-source tricked me with removing the cvs dir... I'll respin an upload tonight or so)
[11:47] <cprov> pitti: that version is only published in proposed
[11:48] <Riddell> sistpoty|work: ok, poke me when it's uploaded
[11:48] <pitti> cprov: can it be rescued with copy-package to become published in hardy-updates?
[11:48] <pitti> cprov: ATM it's not even in hardy-proposed's amd64 Packages.gz any more
[11:48] <pitti> cprov: (or not yet, it just finished building)
[11:48] <sistpoty|work> Riddell: sure, will do (but I guess it won't happen before 7 or 8 UTC today)
[11:48] <cprov> pitti: and it will be listed in the index within 5 minutes or so
[11:49] <cprov> pitti: I meant the source
[11:49] <cprov> pitti: it's just a matter of waiting, not a bug, right ?
[11:50] <pitti> cprov-lunch: well, not really a bug, I'm just not sure how to recover from this
[11:50] <pitti> cprov-lunch: we copied to -updates before the amd64 build was done
[11:50] <pitti> and deleted from -proposed 4 hours ago
[11:50] <pitti> and now the build arrived
[11:50] <pitti> so we don't have any source to copy-package any more
[11:50] <pitti> just the amd64 binary
[11:56] <pitti> asac: working on it
[11:57] <pitti> Keybuk: do you have some time today or tomorrow to discuss https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/gdm-guest-login ?
[11:57] <Riddell> is there any consensus about what to do with bug 175508 ?
[11:58] <Riddell> bdmurray, ScottK, siretart?
[12:01] <heno> Riddell: IMO it should be removed until we can make it DTRT
[12:02] <heno> which is report bugs in LP or deffer to Apport or something
[12:05] <Keybuk> pitti: sure
[12:06] <Riddell> heno: what about reportbug?
[12:06] <Riddell> currently it e-mails ubuntu-users, which seems pointless
[12:07] <pitti> Keybuk: I wrote an initial braindump now, but I left a big TODO item there, about how to plumb together gdm, that guest session binary, and PAM
[12:07] <pitti> Keybuk: so I'd like to pick your brain about PAM
[12:07] <pitti> Keybuk: maybe we can deal with it on tomorrow's phone call?
[12:09] <heno> Riddell: agreed. It gives an incorrect impression that the issue will be tracked
[12:09] <Keybuk> pitti: sure
[12:09] <heno> Riddell: I would advocate removing that too
[12:10] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[12:12] <siretart> Riddell: my opinon is stated in the bug. I find the tool useful and therefore would vote to keep it
[12:13] <siretart> Riddell: it might have bugs and be preferable adapted to offer the user a choice to report a bug either to debian or launchpad, but I wouldn't consider that making the package unreleasable
[12:13] <siretart> Riddell: same applies to reportbug
[12:14] <siretart> in the end, both packages are in universe for a reason
[12:25] <ScottK> Riddell: At UDS, James Westby said he'd fix it.
[12:26] <ScottK> IIRC it's reportbug that mails ubuntu-users.  Reportbug-ng will send stuff to Debian.
[12:26] <ScottK> Reportbug should definitely NOT be removed.  It's quite useful for reporting bugs to Debian when that's appropriate.
[12:27] <ScottK> Reportbug-ng just got removed from Testing for being not sufficiently useful, so removing it for now wouldn't be awful.
[12:27] <ScottK> Riddell:^^^
[12:35] <Riddell> siretart: how is reportbug useful for debian reporting when it reports to ubuntu-users?
[12:35] <heno> We should at least coordinate the use of reportbug (if configured to send to Debian) though.
[12:36] <sistpoty|work> Riddell: it has a -B switch to choose debian's BTS
[12:37] <heno> Don Armstrong (Debian BTS guy) felt that even bugs in unmodified packages were not self-evidently Debian issues because we run them in an Ubuntu environment with our own configurations
[12:38] <heno> so the bugs reported from us should at least be tagged clearly as such (are they?)
[12:38] <siretart> Riddell: by using it with 'reportbug -Bdebian' - at least that's the only way I use it.
[12:39] <heno> siretart: is it obvious on the Debian end that the bug is from Ubuntu?
[12:40] <siretart> heno: sort of, it is at the end of the message if the user didn't delete that from the template.
[12:41] <siretart> heno: the more challenging problem is that most ubuntu users are not aware what happens to their message, read: the have no idea where the report goes to and who is in charge dealing with it.
[12:41] <sistpoty|work> siretart: by default it actually gets stuck at fiordland anyways ;)
[12:42] <heno> ok, so we would need to modify reportbug to provide that info
[12:42] <siretart> sistpoty|work: that's why I configured it in my user config to use /usr/bin/sendmail.
[12:42] <siretart> heno: even better: make it report to launchpad.
[12:43] <sistpoty|work> siretart: heh
[12:43] <heno> what features does it have that apport doesn't?
[12:44] <heno> as in "apport-cli -f -p PACKAGE"
[12:44] <siretart> heno: I don't see how apport and reportbug(-ng) relate.
[12:45] <\sh> siretart: I thought reportbug-ng is past tense for lenny?
[12:45] <siretart> \sh: I expect it to be fixed in time
[12:46] <\sh> siretart: let's hope :)
[12:46] <siretart> heno: reportbug e.g. support package specific hooks for collecting extra data. it respects the Bugs: field of the package, it does not require authentication -- there are so many fundamental differences that I wouldn't even consider comapring it to apport
[12:49] <heno> siretart: they both collect info to help you file a better bug. Apport supports package hooks as well https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Apport
[12:50] <heno> they seem to me to have some overlap :)
[12:50] <heno> though I'm sure there are major differences too
[12:51] <siretart> heno: which are not the same hooks we already have in debian. so we need to reimplement all those nice hooks in debian pacakge again for ubuntu :/
[12:52] <siretart> heno: but I think the most important point for this discussion here is: apport cannot be used to report bugs to debian. that's why I stick to reportbug and reportbug-ng
[12:54] <heno> and I think the question is whether we as Ubuntu should ship a package that does that (or perhaps that should be installed directlt from debian for those who want it) IMO the answer will depend on debian's view on getting bugs from us
[12:54] <heno> (to the extent there is a "debian's view")
[12:56] <sistpoty|work> heno: given that reportbug itself doesn't by default report anything to debian, unless you fiddle with command line switches and configuration, I guess it's the risk of bugs reported to the wrong BTS is minimal
[12:56] <pitti> epiphany-extensions | 2.22.2-0ubuntu<IP_ADDRESS> | hardy-updates | source, amd64, i386, lpia, powerpc
[12:56] <pitti> asac: ^
[12:56] <pitti> lool: ^ as well
[12:57] <heno> sistpoty|work: true, but the default configuration is definitely bad :)
[12:57] <sistpoty|work> heno: heh, yeah :)
[13:01] <siretart> heno: it may be buggy. but still not a reason to remove it, IMO.
[13:03]  * asac hugs pitti
[13:04] <heno> siretart: ok, I don't have strong feelings about it; if it has a use case and is otherwise used carefully, and isn't causing annoyance in debian then I'm not worried
[13:12] <ScottK> The bigger problem is reportbug-ng that does report bugs to debian by default even though it's supposed to know better.
[13:23] <Keybuk> Finally, Stallman suggested keeping Oyster cards in aluminium foil when they aren't actually being scanned for travel, to prevent them being scanned secretly.
[13:23] <Keybuk> assuming he has spare foil left over from his hat
[13:23] <Hobbsee> oyster cards?
[13:24] <Hobbsee> ah, transport card.
[13:42] <mvo> pitti: how can I force a retrace of bug #205797 ?
[13:42] <pitti> mvo: re-tag it with need-retrace-i386
[13:42] <pitti> mvo: but the retracers are down ATM
[13:42] <pitti> still on my TODO list
[13:43] <mvo> thanks, I added it now
[13:57] <Keybuk> pitti: did you merge devmapper?
[13:58] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, last week or so
[13:58] <Keybuk> pitti: you can have #238793 then :p
[13:58] <pitti> argh, TIL stickyness?
[13:58] <Keybuk> no
[13:58] <ogra> _MMA_, ping
[13:58] <Keybuk> part of the export patch appears to be missing
[13:59] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, I'll have a look; sorry
[13:59] <_MMA_> ogra: Hello sir.
[14:00] <ogra> _MMA_, hey, i was wondering what you think about the idea to pull in ubuntoon into edubuntu in intrepid :)
[14:00] <ogra> i see it isnt in the archive yet
[14:01] <_MMA_> ogra: Sure. I had meant to talk to you in Prague about it. Lemmie give it a update this week (most likely tomorrow) and Ill ping you when done. Sound cool?
[14:02] <ogra> _MMA_, absolutely, no hurry artwork deadline is still far out (and i ted to ignore it slightly in edubuntu anyway :) )
[14:02] <ogra> *tend
[14:02] <_MMA_> ogra: Cool.
[14:05] <lool> pitti: Cool, thanks
[14:06] <lool> pitti: Could you check gcc-defaults/lpia too?
[14:07] <lool> It seems to be there for amd64 and i386
[14:07] <pitti>        gcj | 4:4.2.3-1ubuntu6 | hardy-updates | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, lpia, powerpc, sparc
[14:07] <pitti> lool: really? it's fine on drescher
[14:07] <lool> pitti: How do you do that madison on all arches?
[14:07] <lool> or dak ls :)
[14:08] <pitti> lool: that's madison-lite on drescher
[14:08] <pitti> which uses the actual archive's Packages.gz
[14:08] <StevenK> Which rmadision hooks into
[14:08]  * lool doesn't have drescher access unfortunately
[14:08] <pitti> rmadison does not have ports
[14:08] <StevenK> lool: ^
[14:08] <StevenK> Oh
[14:08] <StevenK> Pity
[14:08] <lool> I'm using rmadison a lot, I wish there would be a ports' cgi too
[14:10] <lool> pitti: Aha, my script thought gcc was missing because I didn't know how to retrieve the Source version of a binary package when it's different from the source, so I was looking at any binary from this source with this version; there was none for gcc-defaults, but I now have an example to get the source version of a binar
[14:11] <lool> y
[14:11] <lool> pitti: (Source: gcc-defaults (1.62ubuntu6))
[14:11] <lool> I'll update my script now that I have proper sample data
[14:13] <lool> Hmm I see rmadison has a flag to filter which architecture to output; I guess we could simply add support for it in the ubuntu madison cgi
[14:15] <pitti> asac: oh, ffox rc2 changes abi again? I. e. everything needs a rebuild again?
[14:17] <asac> pitti: who said that?
[14:18] <pitti> asac: you created tasks for all of the reverse dependencies for the "RC2 update" bug
[14:18] <asac> pitti: those are investigation bugs. most are already invalid
[14:18] <pitti> oh, ok
[14:18] <asac> pitti: e.g. check for regressions (besides ABI/API which should be ok)
[14:19] <asac> pitti: most likely just firefox-3.0 and xulrunner-1.9 ... and even those were uploaded with lax dependencies
[14:20] <geser> pitti: can you please remove libversion-perl from the NEW queue? I didn't catch that it got removed from intrepid. Thanks.
[14:27] <pitti> geser: done
[14:27]  * pitti yays -- finally a fully DKMSified, packaged, and working dvb-T driver for hardy
[14:32] <ogra> pitti, oh, really ? i didnt see the kernel fix in any changelogs
[14:32] <pitti> ogra: no, in my PPA; I just blogged about it
[14:32] <ogra> ah
[14:34] <geser> kirkland: hi, are you aware that select-editor doesn't write ~/.selected_editor if only one exists and sensible-editor fails to source that file and fails
[14:59] <superm1> pitti, after you get some reports on it, perhaps would you get it into hardy-backports for wider adoption?
[15:03] <pitti> superm1: hm, maybe
[15:03] <pitti> I didn't actually plan to upload it into intrepid, though
[15:04] <pitti> since that would mean I officially have to maintain it for very long :)
[15:04] <kirkland> geser: please clarify....
[15:04] <superm1> ah right :)
[15:05] <geser> kirkland: when I try to call sensible-editor in my intrepid chroot I get: .: 17: Can't open /home/michael/.selected_editor
[15:05] <pitti> superm1: once jockey gets supoprt for an online driver db, I'd rather link it in the db and keep the driver in a ppa
[15:06] <kirkland> geser: does /home/michael exist?
[15:06] <geser> kirkland: sure
[15:06] <geser> kirkland: this only happens when VISUAL and EDITOR are unset
[15:07] <kirkland> geser: right, that's the case where select-editor should kick in
[15:07] <kirkland> geser: let me understand why it can't write that file, though
[15:07] <kirkland> geser: what user is executing it?
[15:07] <kirkland> geser: and would that user not have write access to /home/michael/.selected_editor ?
[15:08] <geser> kirkland: looking at the code of select-editor it calls "update-alternatives --list editor | wc -l" which gives 1 for me and skips the next if where that file is created
[15:08] <kirkland> geser: ah, good catch
[15:24] <kirkland> geser: hey, i've got a fix...  can you open a bug in launchpad against debianutils?  i'll attach a debdiff and get it sponsored asap.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/debianutils
[15:36] <kirkland> geser: nevermind, i filed one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debianutils/+bug/238879
[15:43]  * pitti tosses bug 237317 back to lool
[15:45] <kirkland> geser: debdiff attached.  you can apply the patch locally against /usr/bin/select-editor if you like
[15:47] <kirkland> kees: hopefully you can sponsor the fix for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debianutils/+bug/238879 when you get in
[15:55] <asac> pitti: do you have cycles to let xul + ffox into -proposed today?
[15:56] <geser> kirkland: I've tested the patch and can confirm that it fixes the issue. Thanks.
[15:56] <kirkland> geser: excellent, wanna note that in the bug?  might help accelerate sponsorship.....
[15:58] <pitti> asac: I need to run out in 5 minutes, but I'll touch it now
[15:59] <geser> kirkland: done
[16:00] <kirkland> geser: thx
[16:00] <kirkland> pitti: can you sync the -46 version of ecryptfs-utils in Debian to Intrepid?
[16:00] <asac> pitti: thanks so much.
[16:02] <pitti> kirkland: will happen during autosync, will do tomorrow morning
[16:02] <pitti> kirkland: (sorry, need to run out soon)
[16:02] <kirkland> pitti: good enough for me
[16:02] <kirkland> pitti: thanks
[16:06] <tseliot> pitti: email sent. The links are there.
[16:14] <bdmurray> Riddell: While I'm a bit late and haven't read the whole discussion I think it is worth keeping too
[16:16] <Riddell> bdmurray: I think I'll just leave it and hope someone else sorts it :)
[16:17] <bdmurray> heh
[16:46] <lool> MacSlow: Hey, cairo-clock Recommends compiz: is this really needed?
[16:48] <Riddell> tkamppeter: are you able to merge cups-pdf sometime?  I'm down for it as the last uploader but I think you are a better person to merge it with Debian
[17:02] <tkamppeter> Riddell, OK, I can do so.
[17:05] <MacSlow> lool, well a compositor... that can be either compiz or metacity (with an enabled compositor)
[17:06] <lool> MacSlow: It seems that even without compositor, it will work, just wont be transparent, right?
[17:06] <MacSlow> lool, but since one cannot put "metacity (with enabled compositor)" in the control file I chose compiz
[17:06] <lool> MacSlow: We're pulling cairo-clock in UME now, I'd rather not pull compiz though; perhaps this should simply be covered in the doc -- compiz is the default in Ubuntu anyway, no?
[17:06] <MacSlow> lool, no I intercept that and present the user an error-message.
[17:07] <lool> Oh, so it's handled at runtime already
[17:07] <lool> Not sure we need to have a dep then
[17:07] <MacSlow> lool, of course... that's why I used "recommends" and not "depends"
[17:07] <lool> agoliveira told me it works on his laptop with compositing enabled and not running compiz
[17:07] <MacSlow> lool, but I thought that's what the field "recommends" was meant for
[17:07] <Riddell> tkamppeter: thanks
[17:08] <lool> MacSlow: As you were saying, it's quite an imprecise way of saying "anything providing compositing"; we could use virtual packages for this, but it would be a bit heavy
[17:08] <lool> MacSlow: I think in your case you want a Depends on a compositor
[17:09] <lool> MacSlow: But as there's no virtual provide for this, and it's per user anyway -- or even per session -- I'm not sure you want to reflect in the dependencies
[17:09] <MacSlow> lool, gee... I won't be the one introducing stuff like that :) I'm not enough of a MOTU to forsee all the implication such a suggestion could have.
[17:10] <ogra> just move Recommends: compiz to Suggests: compiz
[17:10] <lool> Yes, that's what I wanted to offer
[17:10] <lool> MacSlow: Would you mind if I downgraded to suggests in intrepid?
[17:10] <lool> Or removed the dep entirely, perhaps adding a README in the package?
[17:11] <ogra> that way even openbox users with xcompmgr can use it without cluttering their disk wih compiz
[17:11] <MacSlow> lool, np
[17:11] <ogra> i think a suggests is fine ... i'd make it even Suggests: compiz | xcompmgr
[17:12] <MacSlow> lool, btw... xcompmgr works too with cairo-clock... at least last time (some months ago) I tested it
[17:14] <lool> MacSlow: Ack; thanks for discussion
[17:15] <MacSlow> lool, you're welcome
[17:16]  * Hobbsee wonders when the apt transition will complete
[17:17]  * lool suggests Hobbsee to stare at cairo-clock until the transition completes
[17:17] <Hobbsee> lool: heh.  i do like that clock
[17:17] <ogra> heh
[17:18] <Hobbsee> lool: but we are supposed to have an alpha release this week, so having stuff installable is probably a reasonable expectation?
[17:18] <Hobbsee> at least, that's what the schedule says
[17:19] <lool> Hobbsee: Who needs APT anyway?  ar ought to be enough for end users
[17:19] <Hobbsee> lool: heh.
[17:19] <Hobbsee> lool: sure, but this is not 1990.
[17:40] <laga> pitti: good job on the v4l-dvb package. i've been meaning to do that for mythbuntu for a long time
[17:46] <mkrufky> i noticed that
[17:46] <mkrufky> wont it break out of tree drivers?
[17:47] <laga> in what way?
[17:47] <mkrufky> err...  it _will_ break out of tree v4l/dvb drivers
[17:47] <mkrufky> replacing videodev by a new videodev, where modules in l-u-m depend on the kernel provided videodev
[17:47] <mkrufky> i have a fix for that, actually :-)
[17:47] <mkrufky> but its not fully backwards compatable
[17:48] <laga> yeah, i was just looking at l-u-m
[17:48] <laga> it'd be nice if l-u-m also used dkms.
[17:48] <mkrufky> yeah, anty media driver in l-u-m would get broken
[17:48] <mkrufky> if he changed his dkms build to -not- replace videodev, that would do it......  although it would only go back so many kernel versions
[17:50] <mkrufky> ...same applies to dvb-core, if there are any out of tree dvb devices in l-u-m
[17:50] <laga> mkrufky: do you know the state of the multiproto api?
[17:51] <mkrufky> it's not in kernel
[17:51] <mkrufky> and never will be
[17:51] <mkrufky> the author chose to fork and refuses any merge attempts
[17:51] <mkrufky> dont bother supporting it
[17:52] <mario_limonciell> laga, dkms shouldn't necessarily be used for everything in lum, but this model for updated drivers and binary drivers only is a good idea.
[17:52] <laga> it's a bit hard not to support it (in the future) as it's the only way to use DVB-S2.
[17:52] <laga> AFAIK
[17:53] <laga> mario_limonciell: well, l-u-m still should provide binaries, of course, but it'd also be nice if it didn't break if someone compiles their own kernel.
[17:53] <laga> granted, it's easy to rebuild.
[17:54] <mario_limonciell> the problem with putting dkms on too much stuff is that you end up having to have a build chain to build it when it needs to be used
[17:54] <mario_limonciell> and then you add extra delay to postinst when you build stuff
[17:54] <mario_limonciell> or during the next boot if you build it there
[17:56] <laga> thats why we have prebuilt modules for people who use the stock kernel. :)
[17:56] <laga> anyways, that discussion is probably fruitless. :)
[18:02] <mkrufky> laga: im only saying that userspace trying to support the multiproto api might be a wasted effort when the developer is unwilling to merge, and another developer is working on a better solution
[18:03] <laga> mkrufky: oh? got a keyword for me to throw at google?
[18:03] <mkrufky> mario_limonciell: i been trying to find you
[18:03] <mkrufky> change your nick much?
[18:03] <mkrufky> no, laga
[18:04] <mkrufky> all i can say is that we wont be held up by developers that dont play nice
[18:04] <mkrufky> at least, not forever
[18:04] <laga> mkrufky: so i guess you won't have an ETA either (for me). i'm moving soon and i'll have a dish there ;)
[18:05] <mkrufky> i dont involve myself with dvb-s at all -- ur asking the wrong guy
[18:05] <mkrufky> im just saying not to waste your time writing userspace software for a dead api
[18:05] <laga> mkrufky: alright, thanks!
[18:05] <mkrufky> then again, there's no telling when a real api will come
[18:06] <mkrufky> others are already working on temporary solutions
[18:57]  * lamont wonders which lib defines ap_get_token
[19:09] <mario_limonciell> mkrufky, while i'm at work I use this nick, when i'm home i use superm1
[19:37] <pitti> lamont: \o/
[19:37] <pitti> laga: \o/
[19:37] <pitti> lamont: sorry, ETAB
[19:38] <lamont> pitti: heh
[19:39] <ion_> pici: Heh
[19:40] <Pici> heh, oh wait.
[19:43] <\sh> pitti: which dvb-t stick do you have? which usb id i mean? ending with :5070 some sort of?
[19:43] <pitti> \sh: 7070 is the product ID
[19:43]  * pitti finds it and plugs in
[19:43] <\sh> pitti: or that...yes...that's why I have too :)
[19:44] <pitti> \sh: standard 29 EUR WinTV Nova-T stick
[19:44] <\sh> pitti: yepp :)
[19:44] <pitti> Bus 003 Device 004: ID 2040:7070 Hauppauge
[19:44] <\sh> pitti: that's the same :)
[19:44] <\sh> one of the newer ones which only works with newer linux-dvb drivers...hehe :) what a conincidence :)
[19:44] <mkrufky> (supported)
[19:45] <\sh> mkrufky: but not in hardy :)
[19:45] <mkrufky> no new cards are _ever_ supported in a distro
[19:45] <mkrufky> http://linuxtv.org/repo for howto, or use pitti's dkms package
[19:45] <\sh> mkrufky: you can't check beforehand..the stick is supported with older prod ids..
[19:45] <mkrufky> never, i said \sh
[19:46] <mkrufky> mario_limonciell: / superm1: whenever you're around, plz ping me
[19:46] <mario_limonciell> mkrufky, i've got about 15 minutes right now
[19:46] <mario_limonciell> pm?
[19:46] <mkrufky> k
[19:46] <\sh> pitti: i'll test it tomorrow in the office..there's the stick laying, wanted to use it for watching the EM during work time ;)
[19:49] <emgent> heya people
[20:35] <Cliph> Having a problem with a one of my meta dpkgs, is this a good place to get some help?
[20:35] <Cliph> or should I go to -motu?
[20:38] <Cliph> I have output and pastebins ready
[22:23] <sistpoty> Riddell: tk-brief uploaded to hardy-proposed again (with the xdg-open change, works like a charm, thanks!)
[22:23] <sistpoty> Riddell: oh, and of course I've also uploaded it to intrepid beforehand
[22:35] <Riddell> sistpoty: accepted
[22:35] <sistpoty> Riddell: thanks a lot!
[23:02] <rubikcube> hmm, I had thought that I had fulfilled everything in the original post already... what do you think? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-selector/+bug/238634


 I'm back in a town with cell service and wifi access
 It looks like you made a wrong turn in Bolder
 Lol
 and, what do you know, aaron's in cali
 How much was the flight?
 @KMyers anyone up for undergrounds
 I may be, when are you thinking?
 What's an undergrounds?
 It is a Coffee House in Ft Lauderdale
 O ok
 Might head down in a free minutes with my friend
 @KMyers want me to bring ghost pepper chips?
 I may be free in about 30 minutes to head up
 Can I bring that in
 Heading down
 (Location, lon: -80.064917, lat: 26.571441)
 I can't leave just yet so start caffinating without me
 I'm actually not too far from it, but I honestly just want to go home when I get off work
 @Ivoriesablaze, Also you don't do coffee
 @KMyers, Is that a thing?
 ...
 @EZRA1964, I was confused as well but you do not want to see @Ivoriesablaze caffinated
 And when has that stopped me from hanging out over there with you all
 @Ivoriesablaze, Sometimes
 I am just finishing up with some work stuff and will head out shortlyafter
 Also, driving in ft Lauderdale on a Friday night is not my idea of a good time
 So you're saying I wasn't invited anyway... :-P
 I did not say that
 lol, just messing, i really do just want to go home when i get off work, though
 I am still at work
 I don't think I have been there. But I think I might the opposite of Joel when it comes to caffeine. I have trouble getting hyper from it.
 fvck yeah
 @KMyers we're here
 Ok
 @Abrerr 1300
 (Location, lon: -118.145421, lat: 34.145902)
 @KMyers if you, or really anyone in here, wants to use my onlyoffice, I can give you an LDAP account so you can use it at Collabora.adamoutler.com
 Thanks but I have my own setup
 @KMyers, What are you using now?
 Next cloud with Collabora
 You said it was borked earlier
 No, my Guacamole server is
 Oh.  Ok.
 I know why, I just need to change a port on my Omaha proxy
 Docker install for this was easy, going to look for docker for the guacamole
 I couldn't get it to work.  All the guides were screwed up and on tomcat6
 I really need to move the Omaha proxy to a new VM, maybe that will be one of this weekend projects
 I'm really digging ldap.  It works well for authentication.  I'm considering switching my Linux boxes over to it.
 But I'm worried that if something happens to Network how will I login?
 Normally a local admin account
 I have been considering Radius instead of LDAP. I can even tie my WiFi access at the house to Radius
 I did radius once.  It doesn't support everything like ldap
 @AdamOutler, Just flat ldap, or managing with a front end?
 How is everyone this fine morning?
 Yeah, my NAS has a front end.
 Oh nice
 It really is.  I have nothing but praise for Synology.  They have a plethora of apps from 1st and 3rd parties for Drupal and others.  It installs just like apt.   These are in addition to the expected functionalities.. webdav, SVN, rsync, samba, SFTP, ssh, ftp, tftp, and a plethora of other check-boxes.
 The webui is awesome.
 Highly recommend. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076G6YKWZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 I finally got WiFi working on my custom build
 Still no touch screen and the rotation is still failing.