[16:00] <cjwatson> hi all
[16:00] <robbiew> o/
[16:00]  * barry waves
[16:00] <ev> hiya
[16:00] <mvo> hello
[16:01]  * cjwatson quickly creates https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
[16:02] <cjwatson> Keybuk,doko,psurbhi: ?
[16:02] <doko> hi
[16:02] <psurbhi> hi
[16:02] <cjwatson> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is cjwatson.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <cjwatson> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
[16:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0519
[16:03] <cjwatson> right, so not much of an agenda today, just wanted a quick sync after UDS mostly in case anyone had any unresolved issues
[16:03] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:03] <cjwatson> >>> print ', '.join(order)
[16:03] <cjwatson> Keybuk, barry, ev, cjwatson, doko, mvo
[16:04] <Keybuk> This week I have been mostly catching up on sleep, laundry and UDS notes.
[16:04] <Keybuk> Turning the latter into roadmaps and work items.
[16:04] <Keybuk> Expect to be doing that for much of the next week too.
[16:04] <Keybuk> --
[16:04] <doko> it shouldn't take Kebuk as long as to place a settelemnt ;)
[16:04] <barry> done: created python versions for maverick wiki page; began discussions on debian-python and python-dev; computer janitor triage and prep for v2 upload. todo: update blueprints w/work items; build python 2.7 and create ppa; build and upload cj 2.0.1; begin planing for pep 384 (stable abi) [EOT]
[16:05] <ev> writing up blueprints, spent some time learning kvm-autotest, experimenting with sikuli and hudson per foundations-m-upgrade-and-install-testing.
[16:05] <ev> partially blocked: writing up installer redesign spec.  Spoke with Ivanka and she now knows that it needs to be ready by feature definition freeze.
[16:05] <ev> --
[16:05] <mvo> kvm-autotest \o/
[16:05] <ev> sikuli is prettier
[16:05] <cjwatson> done: writing up specs, catching up on grub development (sent btrfs probe branch upstream for review), some merge catch-up
[16:05] <cjwatson> todo: finish specs and get stuck into foundations-m-cd-boot, I think
[16:05] <cjwatson> --
[16:06] <doko> done: fix toolchain build failures, start i486->i686 transition on i386
[16:06] <barry> ev: have you looked at xpresser?
[16:06] <doko> todo: fix failures for this transition ...
[16:06] <doko> --
[16:06] <mvo> did: uds
[16:06] <mvo> will do: spec/workitems writing, software-center code review/merges, SRUs for update-manager
[16:06] <mvo> (eof)
[16:06] <mvo> ev: nice, checking it out now
[16:06] <ev> barry: oo, not yet.  Added to my list :)
[16:08] <barry> ev: :)  mvo: i wonder if we can/should get a little design team love for cj?  we have a few usability bugs opened
[16:08] <cjwatson> oh, that's it for the lightning round isn't it, unless robbiew has anything to add
[16:08] <cjwatson> can't get used to this smaller team
[16:08] <Keybuk> if only we had more headcount <g>
[16:08] <barry> :)
[16:08] <robbiew> yeah...yeah
[16:09] <cjwatson> I don't have anything in my mailbox by way of extra agenda items
[16:09] <doko> cjwatson: didn't you miss new members?
[16:10] <cjwatson> psurbhi is still technically kernel team, but lurking I gather :-)
[16:10]  * mvo waves to psurbhi
[16:10]  * psurbhi waves to mvo
[16:11] <mvo> ev: no debs for sikuli yet it seems?
[16:11] <ev> mvo: yeah, not yet.  Just grab the zip and openjdk-6-jre, libcv4, libcvaux4, and libhighgui4
[16:12] <ev> oh and a massive amount of RAM, as it's Java.
[16:12] <mvo> heh :)
[16:12]  * barry visits newegg.com
[16:14] <ev> lol
[16:14] <cjwatson> psurbhi is going to be joining us shortly, with a strong filesystems background, and will be starting out working on userspace pieces we need to support btrfs properly
[16:14] <ev> so it's official?
[16:14] <barry> psurbhi: \o/
[16:14] <psurbhi> :-)
[16:15] <ev> psurbhi: welcome to the team!
[16:15] <psurbhi> ev, thank you :)
[16:16] <cjwatson> I'm sure you'll all help her out with any questions she may have :-)
[16:16] <cjwatson> from the lightning round, it doesn't look as though anyone particularly needs urging to get their specs drafted, but just in case, <urge>
[16:16] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] Good news
[16:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news
[16:17] <Keybuk> cjwatson: on the missing btrfs spec, the audio is up on the website now
[16:17] <cjwatson> looks like we have a viable workaround for the dpkg fsync issues, so we should be able to get that into -proposed this wewek
[16:17] <cjwatson> week
[16:17] <cjwatson> Keybuk: oh cool, thanks - videos.ubuntu.com?
[16:17] <Keybuk> http://uds.ubuntu.com/audio/uds-m/
[16:17] <mvo> dpkg> nice!
[16:17] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://uds.ubuntu.com/audio/uds-m/
[16:18] <cjwatson> excellent.  shame I'll have to listen to myself talking. :)
[16:18] <Keybuk> elmo said he'd have a list of the videod sessions that are still to be encoded
[16:18] <mvo> language-selector got a dbus based design and is ready for the 21th century now
[16:18] <Keybuk> cjwatson: you can listen to yourself being wrong on the Internet and shout at yourself through your computer? :p
[16:18] <cjwatson> more like listen to my voice being about half an octave higher than it sounds on the inside
[16:18] <cjwatson> but there you go
[16:19] <Keybuk> yeah, I never realised how squeaky my voice is
[16:19] <ev> I never realized how much I sound like Barry White
[16:19] <barry> mvo: i didn't make that session, but i tried to get to that for lucid and failed.  i should probably work on that for mav
[16:19] <cjwatson> mvo: l-s> and lots of time to land it for maverick :-)
[16:20] <mvo> cjwatson: heh :) indeed!
[16:20] <cjwatson> ok
[16:20] <cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:20] <cjwatson> (because this meeting has been entirely carefully agendaed items, oh yes)
[16:21] <cjwatson> robbiew: so are you expecting to stay with us for a while now? :-)
[16:21] <mvo> wb robbiew btw
[16:21] <cjwatson> oh, indeed
[16:21] <robbiew> heh...if a while is a few weeks...then yes
[16:21] <robbiew> lol
[16:22] <cjwatson> internet time
[16:22] <robbiew> but you can rest assured that you will have a dedicated manager from here on out
[16:23] <ev> anyone else want to use mumble more, once it's transitioned to openid?
[16:23] <robbiew> ev: it has transitioned ;)
[16:23] <cjwatson> doko: re the i686 switch, is there anything we need to be aware of in individual packages?
[16:23] <ev> ORLY
[16:23] <barry> ev: just announced
[16:24] <barry> ev: are you thinking of mumble instead of irc for this meeting?
[16:24] <ev> cool, time to hit UK not-quite-newegg for a bluetooth headset
[16:24] <ev> that would be cool, but painful to make notes of
[16:24] <barry> yeah
[16:24] <doko> cjwatson: need to investigate source packages. DEB_*_GNU_CPU and DEB_*_GNU_TYPE did change
[16:24] <doko> on my list for tomorrow
[16:24] <cjwatson> wow, that will be fun
[16:24] <cjwatson> (I guess that was necessary?)
[16:25] <cjwatson> dpkg upstream asked me about your dpkg change, I hadn't noticed it before then :)
[16:25] <doko> that should be easy, just grepping rules files
[16:25] <doko> will be needed for debian as well, either i585 or i686
[16:28] <cjwatson> mumble/irc: I think irc is still likely to be best for recorded meetings, but mumble looks good for social chat and occasional, well, mumblings about what you're doing, the sort of thing you might say to the person sitting next to you
[16:28] <cjwatson> but I don't know, I expect it will evolve over time
[16:29] <doko> ?
[16:29] <cjwatson> https://wiki.canonical.com/Mumble
[16:30] <cjwatson> ok, anything else before we adjourn?
[16:31] <barry> if anyone has something nice to add to this, it would be great! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BarryWarsaw/MyApplication
[16:31] <barry> mvo: thanks!
[16:33] <cjwatson> ok, I think we're done, thanks all
[16:33] <cjwatson> #endmeeting
[16:33] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
[16:33] <mvo> thanks
[16:33] <barry> thanks!
[16:33] <psurbhi> cjwatson, thanks
[16:33] <ev> thanks!
[16:53] <Aquina> 'lo
[17:57]  * ara waves
[17:58]  * marjo waves
[17:59] <sbeattie> hey all!
[17:59] <jtatum-phone> o/
[18:00]  * charlie-tca waves
[18:00] <marjo> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is marjo.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:00] <pedro_> hello!
[18:00] <marjo> [TOPIC] Agenda
[18:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[18:00] <marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:00] <marjo>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:00] <marjo>     * QA meetings reorg - ara
[18:01] <marjo> * Announce next chairperson
[18:01] <marjo> [TOPIC] SRU Testing -- sbeattie
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU Testing -- sbeattie
[18:01] <sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past 2 weeks (since 2010-05-05):
[18:01] <sbeattie> * lucid: 44 new packages in -proposed
[18:01] <sbeattie>      and 61 packages pushed to -updates
[18:01] <sbeattie> * karmic: 5 new packages in -proposed (gdm, landscape-client, libatasmart, pastebinit, update-manager)
[18:01] <sbeattie>       and 5 packages pushed to -updates (bansheelyricsplugin, boost1.38, etoys, gdm, landscape-client)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (landscape-client, pastebinit)
[18:01] <sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (etoys, landscape-client)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * hardy: 1 package pushed to -updates (nfs-utils)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * dapper: no SRU activity
[18:01] <sbeattie> Thanks to ionospheric, Paul Elliott (omahn), Mario Limonciello (superm1), fx5, Hideki Sakurada, Ville Ranki (cos^), Henning Moll, Marco De Paolini, Guenter Roeck, arand, Benjamin Kay (benkay86), Martin Božič, leighman, Plafuro, tankdriver, Ron S, Irihapeti, neutrinux, Roel van Os, Paul Elliott (omahn), Thorsten Reinbold, Dmitry Shachnev, Frank Groeneveld, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage), Ken Weill P. Lumacad, Daniel Richard G.
[18:01] <sbeattie> , Pekka Hämäläinen, daniele80, Moritz Kobel, Paolo4500, Scott Howard (showard), besson3c, Herco van Brug, Stephen Day, Simon Steinbeiß (ochosi), johnny b, WiNeOS, Fabio Marconi (njin), Imre Gergely (cemc), Chris Guirl, hhfischer, Jussi Kekkonen, Daniel Che, jamboarder and others for testing SRUs this week.
[18:02] <sbeattie> SRUs for lucid are still going strong, as expected.
[18:02] <marjo> sbeattie: your prediction for increased SRU testing came true! thx to all SRU testers!
[18:03] <marjo> sbeattie: anything else?
[18:03] <sbeattie> Indeed, thanks to everyone above, and others I missed; in particular Paul Elliott (omahn) has been quite active in testing a number of SRUs
[18:04] <sbeattie> That's all I've got.
[18:04] <marjo> thx sbeattie
[18:04] <marjo> [TOPIC] Bug Day status - pvillavi
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status - pvillavi
[18:04] <bdmurray> sbeattie: one thing we talked about at UDS was sending stuff to Ubuntu Weekly News
[18:04] <bdmurray> sbeattie: perhaps your report would be a good thing to send?
[18:04] <sbeattie> bdmurray: oh, that's probably a good idea.
[18:05] <pedro_> Hi!, not much on the topic, nothing from previous weeks, but we're having a bug day based on Update Manager tomorrow : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100520
[18:05] <marjo> pedro_ thx for the announcement
[18:05] <pedro_> Some folks already started to work on it, if you have a few spare minutes please consider on join us ;-)
[18:05] <ara> I am sure mvo will be happy to help triagers ;-)
[18:06] <pedro_> i'm sure mvo will be really happy ;-)
[18:06] <pedro_> ara yeah!
[18:06] <marjo> pedro_ anything else?
[18:06] <pedro_> marjo, nope, that's all from here
[18:07] <marjo> [TOPIC] QA meetings reorg - ara
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA meetings reorg - ara
[18:07]  * highvoltage admits to only testing his own SRU :p
[18:07] <ara> So, in case you haven't seen the email, we talked at UDS about improving meetings
[18:08] <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Specs/ImprovingCommunication
[18:09] <ara> charlie-tca and others find difficult to attend this meeting, so we are planning in rotate the meeting times, to see if it helps
[18:09] <ara> every other week, the meeting will be at 17:00UTC, as usual, but the other meeting time is up to you
[18:09] <ara> Paolo has set a poll to see which time is best for the team
[18:10] <ara> please vote at http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv if you haven't done so
[18:10] <persia> When we had more regular MOTU meetings, we found that it was useful to do three times, staggered by 8 hours, to ensure everyone could attend sometime.
[18:10] <ara> [LINK] http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv
[18:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://doodle.com/qskx79utvgaa9ubv
[18:10] <sbeattie> ara: I'm willing to try it, but I've found varying meeting times for teams where it was less crucial for me to attend meant that I never knew when the meeting was, and didn't attend any of them.
[18:10] <persia> Also, given the stated goals, a doodle poll in advance will likely only catch those already finding this time awkward, rather than those who might be attracted with a different time.
[18:11] <ara> sbeattie, there will be reminders to the list ;-)
[18:12] <sbeattie> (e.g. the MOTU meetings being a prime example of me not knowing when they are)
[18:12] <ara> sbeattie, the idea is always wednesdays with only 2 different times
[18:12] <persia> Well, none have been held in a couple years, which has something to do with that :)
[18:12] <ara> every other week
[18:13] <ara> and send reminders to the mailing list a couple of days ahead (asking for topics to cover, as well)
[18:14] <sbeattie> yeah, that sounds good.
[18:14] <ara> sbeattie, anyway, if we never test it, we will never know if it works. if it doesn't, we can always go back to the good old times
[18:15] <marjo> ara: agree, let's try something different and see if it helps
[18:15] <fader_> ara: There was also some talk of having different people chair the meeting; is that still planned as well?
[18:15] <ara> fader_, indeed, if we rotate the chair person, it is likely that he/she will send notes, reminders and the alike
[18:16] <ara> i.e. I am sure marjo will send the summary to the mailing list ;-)
[18:16] <marjo> fader_ yes, that's on the agenda for today
[18:16] <fader_> Sorry, getting ahead of things :)
[18:16] <marjo> fader_ please try to follow the agenda and mind the chairperson
[18:16] <sbeattie> Are there other things that we feel need to be adjusted with the meetings?
[18:17] <sbeattie> (besides schedule, rotating chair)
[18:17] <fader_> I really liked the idea of inviting other teams, locos, etc. to talk at the meetings
[18:17] <fader_> Cross-pollination and all that
[18:17] <marjo> sbeattie: i think the topics are most important to increase participation
[18:18] <marjo> fader_ that would contribute to the interesting topics objective, but we have to find a good meeting time first so people can actually attend
[18:19] <fader_> Details, details
[18:19] <persia> I think it's better to get folks from other places to be *part** of this team also, rather than specifically inviting them to speak.
[18:19] <fader_> persia: Indeed; bad phrasing on my part.  I think the goal was to have a tighter collaboration between QA and other teams, and one way to do that is to encourage more communication
[18:20] <fader_> Not that the goal in and of itself is to have guest lecturers or anything
[18:20] <marjo> ara: anything else you'd like to add to this topic?
[18:21] <ara> marjo, no, thx
[18:21] <marjo> [TOPIC] New topics?
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  New topics?
[18:22] <marjo> folks: any other topics for today's meeting?
[18:22] <marjo> if not, next week's meeting chairperson is ara
[18:22] <marjo> thx ara
[18:23] <marjo> from now on, we will rotate the chairperson for each meeting
[18:23] <marjo> let's see how well that works and adjust accordingly
[18:23] <sbeattie> when do we want to start the time alternation?
[18:24] <marjo> sbeattie: ASAP, but let's get through the poll first, of course
[18:24] <marjo> sbeattie: did i answer your question, or did i misunderstand it?
[18:25] <sbeattie> I just wasn't sure if we intended to use the result of the poll for next week's meeting.
[18:25] <marjo> sbeattie: ah ok
[18:25] <marjo> ara: that's an obvious topic for next week's agenda
[18:25] <ara> marjo, sure
[18:26] <marjo> sbeattie: is that good enough?
[18:26] <sbeattie> sure
[18:26] <marjo> ok, if there are no other new topics or questions, i propose we end the meeting
[18:27] <marjo> going once
[18:27] <marjo> going twice
[18:27] <marjo> meeting adjourned
[18:27] <marjo> thx everyone!
[18:27] <fader_> Thanks all
[18:27] <ara> cheerio!
[18:27] <jtatum-phone> Great meeting. Thanks everyone
[18:27] <marjo> #endmeeting
[18:27] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:27.
[18:40] <hggdh> ~o~
[19:58] <mhall119> am I late?
[19:58] <bencrisford> mhall119: nope
[19:58] <bencrisford> perfect timing in fact :)
[19:58] <mhall119> wow, how about that
[20:00] <highvoltage> heh, first time for everything :)
[20:01] <highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time!
[20:02] <highvoltage> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda as usual
[20:02] <highvoltage> seems like it's just the 3 of us tonight
[20:02] <bencrisford> :(
[20:03] <highvoltage> no problem though, we can just run through the items and post to the list
[20:03] <bencrisford> yep, sounds good
[20:03] <highvoltage> I guess we should announce the meetings better on the lists as well, people tend to forget
[20:03] <highvoltage> As I'm sure you'll know, last week was UDS
[20:03] <highvoltage> I've pasted links to the blueprints on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[20:04] <highvoltage> proper specifications still need to be drawn up
[20:04] <highvoltage> it's on my todo list but my concentration span has been completely erratic this week :)
[20:05] <highvoltage> I'll put together some drafts before the end of the week, so if anyone wants to help complete or review them that would be great
[20:05] <bencrisford> I should be able to help out :)
[20:05] <highvoltage> great
[20:06] <highvoltage> If you follow the -devel mailing list, I'm sure you guys have noticed that Tomek from Debian has almost finished packaging Moodle 1.0
[20:06] <highvoltage> oops, 1.9
[20:07] <highvoltage> doesn't seem like we'll have to do as much work as anticipated at least!
[20:07] <bencrisford> :D
[20:07] <highvoltage> We're going to work on the Debian wiki, you can subscribe to http://wiki.debian.org/Moodle to stay up to date
[20:08] <highvoltage> mailing list is at http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-moodle-maintainers if anyone is interested in getting involved with the packaging
[20:10] <highvoltage> besides that we're still very much in planning mode for Maverick, next week we'll probably be going full steam at everything technical
[20:11] <highvoltage> especially since this is going to be quite a short release cycle, since the release date has moved down to 2010-10-10 instead of 2010-10-26
[20:11] <highvoltage> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule for details on release schedule
[20:12] <bencrisford> :) are we going to be discussing what happened @ UDS this meeting?
[20:12] <bencrisford> especially regarding the teams blueprint.. :)
[20:12] <highvoltage> well it's on the agenda, so I guess yes!
[20:13] <highvoltage> ok so that's it for technical
[20:13] <highvoltage> (this feels like an ubuntu-classroom session with me doing so much talking :) )
[20:14] <highvoltage> so, we still have too many LP teams that are mostly unused
[20:14] <highvoltage> we discussed them at UDS and we're going to merge together or delete some groups
[20:15] <highvoltage> the groups with "-" signs before them will be removed/merged: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-maverick-edubuntu-community
[20:15] <highvoltage> Jordan actually bought up that we probably shouldn't merge the menu-dev team with edubuntu-dev, since edubuntu-dev has a lot more rights so it's probably not a good idea
[20:16] <highvoltage> I'll post the LP teams changes to the list so that we can discuss it there
[20:16] <mhall119> I'm back
[20:16] <mhall119> was pulled away for work
[20:16] <bencrisford> mhall119: :)
[20:16] <highvoltage> I totally read that in a Scwartzenegger accent
[20:16] <bencrisford> haha
[20:17] <bencrisford> btw mhall119 - remember to ask questions in #ubuntu-meeting-chat
[20:17] <bencrisford> (couldnt resist :D)
[20:17] <mhall119> lol
[20:17] <highvoltage> heh
[20:18] <highvoltage> bencrisford: not sure if you had any comments about the LP teams or whether you're fine just posting it to the list?
[20:18] <bencrisford> if ~edubuntu-artwork merges with ~edubuntu-dev does that mean the artists get upload privelidges to all of the ~edubuntu-dev/+junk/branches?
[20:19] <mhall119> I thought those were the people working on plymouth and gdm themes
[20:19] <highvoltage> ah, I should add some clarification there
[20:20] <bencrisford> oh ok
[20:20] <highvoltage> bencrisford: "merge" has some slightly different meaning in this context. we'll basically discontinue that team and people who are more interested in the packaging and bug fixing parts can have it sponsored and eventually join edubuntu-dev
[20:20] <bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, I see :)
[20:20] <bencrisford> and the same for italc-dev?
[20:20] <highvoltage> people who are more interested in creating artwork and new designs should get involved with ubuntu-art
[20:20] <highvoltage> basically, yes
[20:21] <bencrisford> I see :)
[20:22] <bencrisford> the action plan looks pretty neat then team-wise :)
[20:22] <highvoltage> well if it doesn't work we could always change it again :)
[20:22] <bencrisford> yeah :)
[20:23] <highvoltage> currently it's more or less the same people involved everywhere so it shouldn't be a problem
[20:23] <highvoltage> if there are dozens of dedicated italc developers one day then I guess it would make sense to have a new team for them again :)
[20:24] <highvoltage> Our website progress isn't that great
[20:24] <highvoltage> I pinged hedgemadge last week and asked for the tarballs, but she hasn't had the chance yet
[20:24] <highvoltage> I know both hedgmadge and dhillion have been very busy with real-life stuff
[20:25] <mhall119> dhillion finished his AP exams and only has a couple weeks of school left
[20:25] <mhall119> so he should be around more
[20:25] <mhall119> he was on last night
[20:25] <highvoltage> that will be great
[20:25] <highvoltage> it would be nice to have the website up before he finishes
[20:25] <highvoltage> that way when he does finish it's ready for fixing and further population
[20:26] <highvoltage> I get a lot of new frequently asked questions and I could make a lot of changes to the current site to address that...
[20:26] <highvoltage> I just don't want to put a lot of effort into it if we're going to trash the old site in a few days anyway
[20:27] <mhall119> are we not using Launchpad for Q&A?
[20:27] <highvoltage> no, but there's no good reason not to
[20:27] <bencrisford> well we can still use it for q+a...  but FAQs are still useful
[20:28] <bencrisford> saves people filling out a question..  waiting for an answer.. etc.  when they can just go on to some page and see their problem straight away :)
[20:28] <highvoltage> yeah we can find the FAQs in the Q&A questions
[20:28] <bencrisford> sounds like a plan :)
[20:28] <mhall119> I wonder how much effort it would be to use launchpad's API to pull in Q&As
[20:29] <mhall119> something to look into another day
[20:29] <bencrisford> thats an interesting idea.. :) (im churning out ALOT of smileys today :/, i think its cos its sunny)
[20:29] <mhall119> what does the future website run?
[20:29] <highvoltage> bencrisford: heh, it's exactly the opposite here. people are getting all miserable and getting colds as it's getting more and more cold
[20:29] <highvoltage> mhall119: drupal
[20:30] <mhall119> man, it's > 90F here
[20:30]  * mhall119 hates the sun these days
[20:30] <bencrisford> highvoltage: just starting to warm up now, after like months and months of utterly miserable weather
[20:30] <bencrisford> its still pretty chilly, but its sunny which makes it kind of OK
[20:30] <highvoltage> mhall119: it's actually the old site, cleaned up a lot, new theme, all the old bugs fixed, forums with ML integration and a few other small things
[20:31] <mhall119> highvoltage: cool
[20:31] <highvoltage> today the weather was baconny here
[20:31] <mhall119> mmmm, bacon
[20:31] <highvoltage> ( http://jonathancarter.co.za/2010/05/19/this-operating-system-has-everything/ )
[20:32] <mhall119> lol
[20:32] <highvoltage> mhall119: so this API, you mean pull it in from LP to Drupal?
[20:32] <mhall119> yeah
[20:32] <mhall119> like we currently pull from LP to Django for loco.ubuntu.com
[20:33] <bencrisford> wow, I have email and bacon too! :D
[20:33] <highvoltage> it might be worth looking into
[20:34] <highvoltage> the more we can get updated on the site automatically the better
[20:35] <mhall119> highvoltage: how did you test the ubiquity slideshow as you were putting it together?
[20:35] <highvoltage> mhall119: I installed the package on to the live environment
[20:36] <mhall119> and then just ran ubiquity?
[20:36] <mhall119> the install I mean
[20:36] <highvoltage> mhall119: well, when it seemed ok. you can also open the index.html file in firefox (or another web browser) to look through all the slides
[20:36] <highvoltage> you can edit a file that's called something similar to slideshow.js and make the slide delay shorter which is quite useful for testing
[20:37] <highvoltage> yep, so I would check it in firefox, and then when it seemed ok I'd put it in the package, install it on the live cd and fire up ubiquity to see if there were anything weird
[20:37] <mhall119> thanks, looks like I'm missing the js for that
[20:38] <highvoltage> yeah that would break it for sure :)
[20:39] <highvoltage> there's two sub-directories. link and link-core
[20:39] <highvoltage> you'll find the basic images and css in link and the js in link-core
[20:39] <mhall119> working now, thanks
[20:40] <highvoltage> ok on to advocacy team! (I nearly forgot)
[20:40] <highvoltage> bencrisford: have you been following the talk on the mailing list?
[20:40] <bencrisford> highvoltage: ?  I didn't know there was one :S
[20:41] <bencrisford> which ML?
[20:41] <highvoltage> one moment...
[20:41] <highvoltage> bencrisford: eek, I thought it was on the edubuntu-devel mailing list, but it was on the ubuntu-education mailing list
[20:41] <bencrisford> that will be why :)
[20:41] <highvoltage> (which I assume now that you're not on)
[20:41]  * bencrisford searched for ubuntu-education archives
[20:42] <bencrisford> I will subscribe now :D
[20:42] <highvoltage> when you have a chance, please check the messages on the archives from the last few days
[20:42] <highvoltage> that list basically died a while ago
[20:42] <highvoltage> cproffit and dinda revived it
[20:42] <highvoltage> with similar goals do what we have for the advocacy project
[20:43] <bencrisford> ok, cool :)
[20:43] <highvoltage> so I'm suggesting that we use that advocacy team on LP and an associated list for internal stuff, planning, etc
[20:43] <highvoltage> and the ubuntu-education list for teachers and our non-technical education contributors
[20:44] <bencrisford> sounds good :)
[20:44] <bencrisford> is it the messages entitles "Myself"?
[20:44] <highvoltage> heh, yes, it took a few twists and turns from the original introduction :)
[20:45] <bencrisford> okey dokey :)
[20:46] <highvoltage> I'll send some more mails out about that (sheesh I'm getting even more noisy) just to make sure everyone is on the same page
[20:46] <bencrisford> :)
[20:47] <highvoltage> I should've actually pinged you before about the education list but I thought that discussion was on -devel since it all goes into the same mail folder
[20:47] <bencrisford> heh, its ok
[20:47] <bencrisford> :)
[20:48] <highvoltage> cool, you should make some noise too and introduce yourself on that list :)
[20:48] <bencrisford> really? :P
[20:48] <highvoltage> well, since you're technically the leader of our advocacy team... yes :)
[20:49] <highvoltage> (well, good noise, not noise as in signal to noise ;) )
[20:49] <bencrisford> ok :), good noise - tomboy'd :D
[20:49] <highvoltage> do we have anything else for this meeting that I forgot about?
[20:49] <bencrisford> not on the agenda
[20:49] <bencrisford> but can I mention marketing materials?
[20:50] <highvoltage> yep, fire away
[20:50] <bencrisford> well basically, there arent any :/ :(
[20:51] <bencrisford> im thinking maybe we could try and work with the marketing team on this ? or spreadubuntu or something..
[20:51] <highvoltage> I like the spreadubuntu stuff since a lot of it is available in .svg
[20:51] <bencrisford> but getting some leaflets out to LoCos could really help us if they gave them out at events etc.
[20:51] <bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah :D
[20:51] <bencrisford> and maybe web buttons?
[20:52] <bencrisford> I have made a few poor attempts at them
[20:52] <highvoltage> when our website is done, yes :)
[20:52] <bencrisford> im thinking maybe some of the marketing peeps will be more experienced
[20:52] <highvoltage> I don't feel very proud advertising our current website
[20:52] <bencrisford> http://ubuntuone.com/p/1qA/ - that sort of thing maybe..?
[20:52] <bencrisford> :P I dont know
[20:52] <bencrisford> highvoltage: haha, its not that bad!
[20:53] <bencrisford> the information is just outdated
[20:53] <bencrisford> I personally love the design etc
[20:53] <bencrisford> (of the site)
[20:53] <highvoltage> but you're right, we need to bump up our marketing, especially for maverick, if we get it right it will probably be the best educational linux system release ever
[20:53] <bencrisford> yay :D
[20:55] <highvoltage> since the last release it's already more or less on par with the likes of k12-ltsp. debian-edu has quite a few technical advantages (but then again so do we), for maverick we'll have pretty much the best of everything except for centralised authentication, which we might even make some good progress on this release with vmlintu's help
[20:56] <highvoltage> bencrisford: that gif badge looks like a good idea... we just need something better looking, especially without the gif distortions
[20:56] <bencrisford> highvoltage: yeah :)
[20:57] <highvoltage> bencrisford: I'll add it again to the agenda for the next meeting too, so that we can get some more ideas going too
[20:58] <bencrisford> ok :)
[20:58] <highvoltage> ok, next meeting will be on 26 May, same time and place
[20:59] <highvoltage> thanks for being here bencrisford and mhall119!
[20:59] <bencrisford> lol
[20:59] <highvoltage> *GONG*
[20:59] <bencrisford> highvoltage: for next week, ill send a meeting reminder to the ML on tuesday night if you want?
[21:00] <bencrisford> well tuesday night for me
[21:00] <bencrisford> would be afternoon for USA
[21:00] <bencrisford> im pretty good at remembering the meetings so wont be a problem :)
[21:02] <highvoltage> bencrisford: that would be nice
[21:03] <bencrisford> highvoltage: :)
[21:51] <dbertua> hola gente


[00:00] <asac> fta: just push
[00:00] <asac> fta: double check that debian/copyright is accurate
[00:00] <fta> is it pretty simple
[00:00] <asac> fta: i got a bunch of rejections on extensions for that
[00:00] <fta> it is
[00:01] <asac> because i was not hard enough including all info
[00:01] <asac> its important to say "who packaged it when and how the tarball was downloaded"
[00:01] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/118969/
[00:01] <asac> also it needs a clear (c) XXXX line and then  a license boilerplate snippet together with the filename for GPL
[00:02] <fta> yep, that part i'm familiar with now
[00:02] <asac> fta: me not ... but looks good
[00:03] <asac> then just push. we have a bunch of new archive admins
[00:03] <asac> they probably want to be picky ;)
[00:03] <asac> lets see
[00:03] <asac> at least we should get quick processing
[00:06] <fta> i think i should say somewhere it's rev239, to be fair
[00:07] <asac> sure
[00:09] <fta>   * Initial release: 0.8 (as of lp:gwibber/1.0 #239)
[00:09] <fta> ?
[00:09] <asac> should be ok
[00:10] <fta> ok, closing with http://paste.ubuntu.com/118972/
[00:10] <asac> good
[00:12] <fta> pushed
[00:12] <fta> at last
[00:16] <asac> \o/
[00:20] <fta> jcastro, ^^ NEW: gwibber_0.8-0ubuntu1.dsc
[00:21] <asac> fta: i think james_w can review this now too
[00:21] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive/+members
[00:22] <asac> OK OFF
[00:23] <asac> cu tomorrow
[00:24] <fta> why are you not part of it?
[00:35] <fta> cu
[01:44] <Who_> fta: Are you there? I have a quick question about the FF 3.2 build. I've just tried to turn off extension compatibility and it causes FF(3.2) not to start. Are you aware of this? Do you want more info?
[01:45] <Who_> that is, extension compatibility checking :)
[09:05] <asac> fta: i am not part of -archive admin team because i already have enough to do ;)
[09:05] <asac> and you are supposed to not process those that might be of special interest for you anyway afaik
[09:37] <asac> fta: bug 305394
[09:38] <asac> do you know how it should be according upstream?
[09:38] <asac> if so we should just do it i think and see how the world hates or loves us
[09:43] <fta> hi
[09:43] <fta> asac, as i said many times, i dropped one rules file locally
[09:44] <asac> fta: which one?
[09:45] <asac> fta: afair you said you saw regressions in whatever you tried
[09:45] <fta> yes
[09:46] <fta> but i'm living with them now
[09:46] <fta> i don't remember which file i dropped, here is my /etc/fonts/conf.d/ : http://paste.ubuntu.com/119154/
[09:47] <asac> fta: what regressions do you see?
[09:47] <fta> non gtk apps
[09:47] <asac> fta: do those use fontconfig directly?
[09:49] <fta> i'm no expert in fonts :(
[09:49] <asac> heh
[09:52] <fta> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/22722360/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-amd64.firefox-3.2_3.2~a1~hg20090216r25053%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[10:38] <gnomefreak> is there a blog app that handles wordpress?
[10:40] <[reed]> wordpress is a blog app...
[10:40] <[reed]> oh, you mean a gui app?
[10:44] <asac> fta: yeah. saw build failures. Tomorrow is cut-off for feature stuff
[10:45] <asac> which will allow me to do my real work again
[10:45] <asac> fta: seems its just patch shuffeling
[10:46] <gnomefreak> i need gtk app that i can use to post to my wordpress account i use that for planet ubuntu
[10:46] <asac> gnomefreak: no clue ;) ... doesnt something like that exist?
[10:46] <gnomefreak> drivel doesnt support wordpress :(
[10:47] <asac> gnomefreak: gnome-blog - GNOME applet to post to weblog entries
[10:47] <gnomefreak> asac: i hope so i would hate to change blogs. i hate livejornel but maybe ill end up back there
[10:47] <asac> also tomboy-blogposter - Tomboy addin for posting notes to a blog
[10:47] <asac> gnomefreak: ^^ ;)
[10:47] <gnomefreak> asac: waiting for updates to finish before i can find out
[10:59] <gnomefreak> !info movabletype-opensource
[11:00] <gnomefreak> not helpfull
[11:38] <asac> mconnor: see msg ;)
[11:55] <gnomefreak> is it just me or is FF3.2 crashing but stays open?
[13:20] <fta2> gnomefreak, it's mozilla bug 473629, aka bug 319480
[13:29] <gnomefreak> fta2: the closing unexpctedly?
[13:30] <fta2> yes
 is it just me or is FF3.2 crashing but stays open?
[13:31] <gnomefreak> fta2: the bug above that you filed upstream say when you exit the browser. Mine happens while browser is open (not during exit)
[13:32] <fta2> is it when you  click on an url in another app?
[13:33] <gnomefreak> fta2: i dont think so but i will see whne it does it again. I dont see any one thing that causes it but i will find out today.
[13:35] <fta2> for me, it's always when i click on a link to open it in a tab of the existing browser. but that's still on exit()
[13:35] <gnomefreak> ok breakfast im going to leave it open to see if it happens when it is running
[14:26] <gnomefreak> fta2: i think it is when closing tab. either that or scrolling
[14:33] <gnomefreak> fta2: the crash doesnt mention jemalloc
[14:37] <gnomefreak> yep its closing tab or scrolling i'm thinking closign tab
[15:19] <BUGabundo> asac: is that new intel connman any good?
[15:20] <asac> BUGabundo: depends on the level of features you want. its in NM ppa if you want to test ;)
[15:21] <BUGabundo> already have it
[15:21] <BUGabundo> saw it in NEW queue yesterday
[15:21] <BUGabundo> and then read about it on the desktop meeting log
[15:21] <BUGabundo> also gonna test the modem manager PPA
[15:21] <BUGabundo> do you want extra testers on that?
[15:22] <BUGabundo> I have a few loco users you can test it
[15:22] <BUGabundo> ppl that are always having 3G dongles probs
[15:28] <jcastro> asac: do you have a network manager team or do you handle all the bugs yourself?
[15:29] <gnomefreak> asac: did you get a chance to look at 1.1.14 (although not really needed) but it should be pushed soon since its security fix. plus im tired of explaining this to people
[15:29] <BUGabundo> jcastro: I think he does it all alone
[15:29] <gnomefreak> ok coffee and smoke.
[15:32] <asac> jcastro: we have a network-manager team, but in the end it boils down to me trying to find urgent issues and fix them or getting upstream discussions
[15:32] <asac> going
[15:32] <asac> jcastro: so technically the team is currently just me
[15:33] <asac> jcastro: https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+members
[15:33] <BUGabundo> I guess I could join and then give an helping hand
[15:33] <BUGabundo> at least I would learn a bit more about it
[15:34] <jcastro> asac: ok, that'll work, thanks!
[15:34] <asac> jcastro: what will work?
[15:34] <BUGabundo> asac: feel free to aprove me
[15:34] <asac> BUGabundo: feel free to help on bugs.
[15:34] <jcastro> I need to fill in the bug contact field
[15:34] <jcastro> asac: do you guys do the applet too?
[15:34] <BUGabundo> subscribing to bugs too
[15:34] <asac> BUGabundo: the team is just a vehicle to grant access to branches and ppa uploads
[15:35] <BUGabundo> no need for that right now
[15:35] <asac> i dont think you need that unless you start doing branch work now ;)
[15:35] <BUGabundo> LP is a bit confusing at times
[15:35] <BUGabundo> already joined the bug list
[15:35] <asac> jcastro: i am doing that too yes
[15:35] <BUGabundo> doing the same for answers
[15:35] <asac> jcastro: the other members of that team are more or less inactive ;)
[15:35] <asac> BUGabundo: great! ;)
[15:37] <BUGabundo> done
[15:38] <BUGabundo> asac: remember that laptop sis based I mentioned yesterday?
[15:38] <asac> BUGabundo: ah good thing would be to go through incomplete bugs and see if the folks gave the info they needed ;)
[15:38] <BUGabundo> I triaged the bug to 32 vs 64 bits
[15:38] <asac> BUGabundo: yeah. i remember
[15:38] <jcastro> asac: https://edge.launchpad.net/network-manager/+bugsupervisor
[15:38] <jcastro> can you apply yourself? It won't let me assign you
[15:38] <jcastro> er, apply the tea
[15:38] <jcastro> m to that I mean
[15:38] <BUGabundo> asac: 1st ill have to do the same MY OWN bugs eheheh
[15:38] <asac> jcastro: whats the difference of supervisor vs. driver?
[15:39] <BUGabundo> 300+ plus opened (new, incomplete, triage)
[15:39] <asac> jcastro: so what will happen now that i am supervisor?
[15:40] <jcastro> nothing
[15:40] <jcastro> it's just the contact in case someone wants to find out who is responsible for bugs
[15:41] <jcastro> and since it's the nm team anyway ...
[15:41] <asac> jcastro: hmm so should i rather set "network-manager" team as supervisor?
[15:42] <jcastro> right
[15:42] <asac> ok let me fix that ;)
[15:42] <asac> jcastro: doing same for -applet
[15:42] <jcastro> thanks!
[15:43] <asac> jcastro: where would someone find that info? i dont see it on project front page
[15:43] <jcastro> on the bugs page for the project
[15:43] <asac> ok just found it ... thanks
[15:47] <BUGabundo> asac: I can't install modemmanager
[15:47] <BUGabundo> it won't show up on my system
[15:47] <asac> BUGabundo: why would it?
[15:47] <BUGabundo> but I have the ppa on sources.list and added the gpg key
[15:47] <asac> BUGabundo: of modemmanager?
[15:47] <BUGabundo> https://edge.launchpad.net/~modemmanager/+archive/ppa
[15:48] <asac> BUGabundo: its probably because there is no biuld for jaunty ;)
[15:48] <asac> only hardy
[15:48] <asac> and even that i wouldnt suggest to install
[15:48] <asac> oh intrepid has a build too as it seems
[15:48] <BUGabundo> then why is there a jaunty repo?
[15:48] <BUGabundo> to confuser users?
[15:48] <BUGabundo> eheh
[15:49] <asac> BUGabundo: maybe ;)
[16:03] <TomJaeger> Hi, are we going to see a fix for bug #217908 before feature freeze?
[16:04] <asac> TomJaeger: hmm ... is that related to EXA or something? or everywhere?
[16:04] <TomJaeger> everywhere
[16:05] <TomJaeger> firefox uses nearest-neighbor interpolation due to performance bugs that have now been fixed
[16:05] <TomJaeger> (well, sort of, except for the fact that the cairo patch is there but not actually enabled)
[16:14] <BUGabundo> asac: http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=55793316
[16:14] <BUGabundo> seems a lot users have nm probs with that sis191 card
[16:14] <BUGabundo> is that a kernel/driver prob?
[16:17] <TomJaeger> asac, xulrunner patches are attached to comment #69 (probably missing final newlines) and comment #75
[16:18] <asac> TomJaeger: any clue what upstream plans to do ?
[16:19] <asac> TomJaeger: is there a way to detect whether cairo is patched or not?
[16:19] <asac> e.g. if it has the performance bug, can we fallback
[16:19] <TomJaeger> upstream uses their own copy of cairo
[16:20] <TomJaeger> cairo doesn't advertise whether it uses client-side fallbacks
[16:20] <TomJaeger> vlad has stated that he's fine with distributions enabling EXTEND_PAD if the drivers are fixed
[16:22] <TomJaeger> With a patched cairo, we can be sure that the performance bug doesn't occur (it's not that bad anyway, but noticable)
[16:23] <asac> TomJaeger: see, we have performance problems with firefox since 3.0 beta5 went into hardy
[16:23] <asac> TomJaeger: i feel reluctant do do anthing that could have impact for any user using any driver
[16:24] <asac> and afaik, driver situation is not a black and white
[16:24] <asac> a few drivers are probably fixed. the others are not fixed.
[16:25] <TomJaeger> The performance bug is not in the drivers. This was a client-side workaround that cairo was using that really hurt.
[16:25] <TomJaeger> (Copying an image from the server, rescaling it, and sending it back over the wire)
[16:26] <asac> TomJaeger: ok
[16:26] <TomJaeger> if there are any broken drivers left (I've checked all the open source ones, and the binary ones seem okay, too), we get slightly incorrect rendering on upscaled images
[16:27] <asac> TomJaeger: i dont understand your patch
[16:27] <asac> it removes the .dpatch and adds it to 00list
[16:28] <asac> TomJaeger: also consider to be a bit more verbose about that change. in changelog. the bug is long enough to justify putting more info in the patch imo
[16:30] <TomJaeger> the change was already supposed to be in cairo.  Bryce uploaded it, but it turns out I don't understand dpatch.
[16:30] <TomJaeger> It added the patch twice and didn't automatically add it to 00list, that's why the amended patch looks so funny
[16:30] <jcastro> fta2: which packaging where you using for the submitted package? I guess the problem is in debian/copyright
[16:31] <asac> TomJaeger: i would think that you should ask bryce to fix his own mess
[16:32] <TomJaeger> yes, of course.
[16:32] <TomJaeger> This is about the two xulrunner patches.
[16:48] <TomJaeger> asac, so yeah, I'm sure Bryce will update the cairo package.  The question is: How do you feel about the xulrunner patches?
[16:49] <asac> TomJaeger: we need an upstream bug for the patches
[16:49] <asac> i think you took them from one.
[16:50] <asac> but i need them to get permission from mozilla to actually use that
[16:50] <asac> because it touches rendering engine
[16:51] <TomJaeger> This is the upstream report: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=422179
[16:51] <TomJaeger> There's no explicit patch there, but it's a one-line patch, so it's clear to everyone how the patch would look like
[16:57] <TomJaeger> What is the procedure for getting permission from mozilla?
[17:00] <asac> TomJaeger: i have to ask for it
[17:01] <asac> TomJaeger: if vlad says its the right thing its probably a good sign
[17:01] <asac> but since he made that conditionally on whether all drivers are fixed we need to ensure that all drivers are fixed ;)
[17:02] <TomJaeger> http://lists.cairographics.org/archives/cairo/2009-January/016324.html
[17:03] <TomJaeger> Well, I went through the source of every single open-source driver that we're shipping
[17:03] <TomJaeger> (including ones like i128 that probably nobody is using)
[17:05] <TomJaeger> I don't have any nvidia/ati hardware, but at least as far as this test is concerned: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2008-February/032973.html
[17:06] <TomJaeger> both closed-source drivers fall back to software, so we'll get correct rendering
[17:20] <BUGabundo> asac: ping
[17:20] <BUGabundo> how can I force NM or Ubuntu to user JUST IPv4 ?
[17:21] <BUGabundo> I'm thinking that part of this bug, is because we have here (on some sub nets) IPv6 active
[17:24] <asac> TomJaeger: correct rendering, but performance will suck ?
[17:25] <TomJaeger> asac, no, server-side workarounds are fast enough to not be noticable
[17:25] <TomJaeger> s/workarounds/fallbacks/
[17:26] <asac> TomJaeger:  a list of drivers you have checked would be helpful
[17:26] <asac> e.g. ati - fully support
[17:26] <asac> intel - server-side workaround
[17:26] <asac> in that stiyl
[17:26] <asac> style
[17:28] <TomJaeger> like this? http://lists.cairographics.org/archives/cairo/2009-January/016342.html
[17:28] <TomJaeger> since then, we've gotton hardware support for ati and openchrome has been fixed.
[17:28] <TomJaeger> I've purposefully disabled hardware acceleration on my intel card for a while and I couldn't notice a difference
[17:30] <TomJaeger> Of course, none of this has any impact in case that no upscaled images are displayed.
[17:38] <TomJaeger> asac: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/217908/comments/94
[17:39] <asac> TomJaeger: i will be out for an hour or too
[17:39] <asac> we have time to look into this after FeatureFreeze if you can wait for a day or too
[17:39] <asac> from what i see it makes sense
[17:39] <asac> and i guess we will try this
[17:40] <asac> but no guarntees
[17:40] <TomJaeger> okay, thanks for your time
[17:42] <TomJaeger> have to leave now
[18:38] <BUGabundo> fta: it seems that medibuntu also has GE 5
[18:38] <BUGabundo> but they did not renamed old 4.3 package
[18:39] <BUGabundo> so now I have 2 4.3 and 2 5.x
[18:39] <BUGabundo> lol
[18:51] <rzr> hi asac , just pushed a branch before going on vacations hope it helps
[18:55] <fta> BUGabundo, hm? do you mean they have fixed the installer too?
[18:55] <BUGabundo> hum??
[18:55] <BUGabundo> let me launch it
[18:56] <fta> we just provide an installer
[18:56] <BUGabundo> Google Earth - data files
[18:56] <BUGabundo> LOL
[18:56] <BUGabundo> just DATA
[18:56] <fta> what is that?
[18:56] <BUGabundo> googleearth:
[18:56] <BUGabundo>  Depends: googleearth-4.2  but it is not installable or
[18:56] <BUGabundo>  	googleearth-4.3  but it is not installable
[18:57] <BUGabundo> LOLOL
[18:57] <BUGabundo> broken depency on medibuntu repo
[18:58] <fta> ii  googleearth                                5.0.11337.1968+<IP_ADDRESS>-1                          Google Earth, a 3D map/planet viewer
[18:58] <fta> ii  googleearth-package                        <IP_ADDRESS>~0ubuntu1~fta1                             utility to automatically build a Debian pack
[18:58] <fta> the 2nd creates the 1st
[18:59] <BUGabundo> $ apt-cache policy googleearth
[18:59] <BUGabundo> googleearth:
[18:59] <BUGabundo>   Installed: (none)
[18:59] <BUGabundo>   Candidate: 4.3.7284.3916-0medibuntu3
[18:59] <BUGabundo>   Version table:
[18:59] <BUGabundo>      4.3.7284.3916-0medibuntu3 0
[18:59] <BUGabundo>         500 http://fr.packages.medibuntu.org jaunty/non-free Packages
[18:59] <BUGabundo> there's a colision
[18:59] <BUGabundo> between your package and mediubuntu
[19:00] <fta> should not
[19:00] <BUGabundo> I'll see it later or tomorrow
[19:00] <fta> mine should replace yours
[19:00] <BUGabundo> gotta move or will lose the train
[19:00] <fta> i wanted to update universe
[19:01] <BUGabundo> see you later
[19:01] <fta> well.. sigh
[19:04] <asac> fta: upload
[19:04] <asac> if you want someting new in
[19:04] <asac> but i guess google earth is kinda non free
[19:09] <fta> it's just the installer, not the non-free blob
[19:09] <asac> fta: do we have that in the archive yet?
[19:10] <fta> but the desktop icon is gone, the previous installer pointed to a png in the lib dir, it's gone, and i don't find a good substitute in there
[19:10] <fta> yes
[19:10] <fta> !info googleearth-installer
[19:10] <fta> !info googleearth-packager
[19:10] <fta> !info googleearth-package
[19:10] <asac> fta: ah ok. so just pump new version up if its just a versoin bump
[19:11] <fta> multiverse
[19:11] <asac> yeah you can upload there
[19:11] <fta> i'd like to provide an icon, not sure how yet
[19:15] <fta> 133 upgraded, 9 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[19:15] <fta> Need to get 325MB/325MB of archives.
[19:15] <fta> After this operation, 203MB of additional disk space will be used.
[19:15] <fta> ehh? 203M more?
[19:15] <fta> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[19:15] <fta>   libntfs-3g49 linux-headers-2.6.28-8 linux-headers-2.6.28-8-generic linux-image-2.6.28-8-generic linux-restricted-modules-2.6.28-8-generic python3-minimal python3.0 python3.0-minimal
[19:15] <fta>   wireless-crda
[19:16] <fta> booohh, python 3.0 and a new kernel
[19:16] <fta> -minimal, lol
[19:34] <jcastro> fta: we should be good with gwibber now?
[19:34] <jcastro> I don't know what seb means by this BSD code?
[19:35] <fta> jcastro, some themes are using bsd
[19:35] <fta> jcastro, /usr/share/gwibber/ui/themes/funkatron/README:Spaz is distributed under the BSD license and is available for download
[19:36] <jcastro> fta: don't you just mention the BSD license in debian/copyright?
[19:37] <fta> yes, but COPYING should also say themes may differ or something
[19:37] <fta> ie, not everything is GPLv2
[19:38] <jcastro> ok, what do I tell him to do, add a thing to COPYING?
[19:42] <fta> jcastro, let's ask seb
[19:42] <jcastro> ok
[19:42] <fta> jsut did
[19:42] <jcastro> fta: greg is pushing an update debian/copyright he tells me
[19:43] <fta> hm
[19:43] <fta> pulling...
[19:45] <fta> ok, but it's still not enough, BSD is used to it should be mentioned, i can take care of that
[19:50] <jcastro> fta: it says Spaz is distributed under the bsd, that's the client where the theme came from.
[19:50] <jcastro> the readme says Spaz is BSD licensed, it's not talking about the theme
[19:50] <jcastro> but whatever
[20:15] <fta> jcastro, you're right, but it's not clear if a work "based on the design" of something inherits the license of that something... depends on what "based on" means.. copy the code, or just get inspiration from.
[20:15] <fta> sigh.
[20:22] <jcastro> ugh I hate licensing
[20:28] <asac> aol
[20:36] <fta> hm, greg just killed the branch my bot is using to daily build gwibber
[20:36] <fta> it means no more dailies :(
[20:40] <fta> stopping the bot then, too bad
[20:48] <jcastro> fta: dude I thought we were using "debian" not "packaging"
[20:48] <jcastro> I asked him to deprecate it so we would have just one packaging branch
[20:52] <fta> jcastro, i already said that by design, my bot can only track native projects and branches mergeable by bzr bd, i.e., containing debian/*. The other packaging branch is flat, so i can't using without redesigning my bot
[20:52] <fta> and i don't have time to do that
[20:53] <jcastro> oh?
[20:53] <jcastro> let me undo it then
[20:53] <fta> -using+use it
[20:55] <jcastro> ok fixed
[20:56] <fta> thanks
[21:04] <jcastro> I've made a note on the whiteboard what it's for
[21:04] <jcastro> sorry about the confusion
[21:05] <fta> np
[21:08] <fta> asac, here is what i meant this morning about fontconfig regression: http://www.sofaraway.org/ubuntu/tmp/gearth.png
[21:09] <asac> fta: the navigating oceans thing looks strange
[21:09] <fta> asac, it's not really visible in the screenshot but the menu and the option dialog are almost unreadable here, and of course, the text in the tips
[21:09] <asac> the rest ok
[21:10] <fta> not here
[21:10] <fta> the tips text is using Arial
[21:10] <fta> but it's even uglier with all other fonts
[21:10] <fta> it's using Qt
[21:11] <fta> Qt4
[21:23] <Lns> Are any of you aware of any multi-user sqlite db (for FF3 primarily) editors? As in, being able to push sql to multiple databases in ~/.mozilla such as a homepage setting?
[21:23] <Lns> I've seen the sqlite-manager addon but it looks like single db only
[21:28] <Lns> Also, it seems that in 3.0.6, you can edit ~/.mozilla/.../prefs.js to modify their homepage. Is this a sane way to do it outside of sqlite? If so, I'm going to be whipping up a small script to do this on a group-based membership basis (all users in group XYZ will have homepage 123.com)
[21:32] <asac> Lns: hmm not sure
[21:32] <asac> Lns: i would think that you can just use any database editor
[21:32] <asac> Lns: problem is that the DBs are set to exclusive mode
[21:33] <Lns> asac: exclusive mode? As in you shouldn't/can't edit it if it's in use?
[21:38] <asac> Lns: yes. thats probably why a firefox addon makes sense
[21:38] <asac> because only then you can access your own DB
[21:38] <Lns> gotcha
[21:39] <Lns> What are the downfalls of not setting exclusive mode on these dbs? Wondering what the reasoning was
[21:39] <asac> Lns: there were talks about making places et al a dbus service .. but that sounds really linux specific so i doubt it will happen at some point
[21:39] <asac> Lns: afaik it was 15-20% performance boost
[21:40] <asac> which is much needed given that ext3 is really bad anyway
[21:40] <Lns> asac: Is there a practical way to 'unset' exclusive mode, given the caveat of the performance degradation?
[21:41] <asac> Lns: from outsid?
[21:41] <asac> Lns: i would think it takes code changes to not do that
[21:41] <asac> from insid
[21:42] <asac> but maybe there are some hacks to do that from outside
[21:42] <asac> but i would think no
[21:42] <asac> better check with sqlite devs
[21:42] <Lns> asac: i'm just trying to see if there's any practical way to configure/hack all users' sqlite FF dbs so they can be managed centrally
[21:42] <Lns> and still work like they should :)
[21:43] <Lns> i know we had this conv. a while back..just revisiting it as i keep getting requests for things like this
[21:43] <Lns> and editing the DBs directly instead of trying to do some crazy workaround would probably be ideal
[21:46] <asac> Lns: what are you doing again (affiliation)? sorry if i forgot
[21:47] <Lns> asac: I administrate a small school district's Linux/LTSP networks (7 schools) and the on-site techs want the ability to change aspects of Firefox for all / selected users such as bookmarks, homepage, etc.
[21:48] <Lns> < 3.x was easy since you had bookmarks.html and other simple config files to parse..but now it's a whole new ball of wax
[21:49] <asac> Lns: right now iremember
[21:49] <asac> Lns: did your issues resolve? i think we had a fix (7dev/rdanom)
[21:49] <Lns> asac: yes, with the fta ppa it fixed it very well :)
[21:50] <asac> Lns: i thought it landed upstream
[21:50] <asac> doesnt 3.0.6 work oob?
[21:50] <Lns> i wouldn't be able to tell you, that came out almost right after i'd installed the PPA pkgs, so.. heh
[21:50] <asac> Lns: you are now using PPA?
[21:51] <Lns> just for that one package update, yes..then disabled it
[21:51] <asac> Lns: please check that. i think its fixed so you can track security properly again
[21:51] <Lns> ok, cool
[21:55] <asac> fta: did gwibber get the push yet?
[21:56] <asac> fta: its not in the queue
[21:56] <asac> what happened?
[21:57] <asac> rejected
[21:58] <fta> yes, LGPL vs GPL, plus some obscure BSD README
[21:58] <asac> fta: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-archive/2009-February/024963.html
[21:58] <fta> i know
[21:58] <asac> fta: ok. you think you can address that and talk to seb when uploaded?
[21:58] <asac> tomorrow is hte last day i thinki
[21:59] <fta> i didn't write the initial d/copyright, i just fixed the syntax a while ago to please lintian
[21:59] <asac> fta: i didnt say its your fault ;)
[21:59] <fta> yes, sure. the GPL part is fixed already, i'm still unsure about what to do with the BSD part
[21:59] <asac> fta: so i learned today that they run licensecheck -R --copyright .
[22:00] <fta> maybe there's nothing to do
[22:00] <asac> look at the output and just list them below the other license
[22:00] <fta> oh, let me try that
[22:00] <asac> fta: what they want is that you list all files with different license below the main licesne block
[22:00] <asac> so like:
[22:01] <asac> Other Licenses:
[22:01] <fta> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~gwibber-committers/gwibber/gwibber-1.0/annotate/head%3A/ui/themes/funkatron/README
[22:01] <fta> have a look at this
[22:01] <asac> Files licensed under LGPL 2.0 (or later):
[22:01] <asac>  file1, file2, file3
[22:01] <asac> ...
[22:02] <asac>  See: /usr/share/common-licenses/LGPL
[22:02] <asac> same for other licenses
[22:02] <asac> and if the license is not in common-licenses you need to paste it completely instead of the See:
[22:02] <fta> that i know
[22:02] <asac> also as it seems you need to list all copyright holders ... you can see that with the licensecheck thing
[22:03] <asac> so in the beggining of copyright:
[22:03] <asac>  * (c) 2008  Super mario, All rights reserved
[22:03] <asac>  * (c) 2009  super man, ...
[22:03] <asac> not sure who is copyright owner of gwibber
[22:04] <fta> hm, interesting... http://paste.ubuntu.com/119409/
[22:05] <asac> fta: yeah. seems those files one has to look at individually
[22:05] <fta> let me re-run that on the tarball only
[22:05] <asac> fta: just re-ran it ... looked the same
[22:05] <asac> fta: i guess seb looked at all files individually then
[22:06] <asac> (thats usually what archive admins should do=)
[22:10] <fta> http://paste.ubuntu.com/119410/
[22:11] <fta> jcastro, ^^
[22:11] <asac> fta: look in all files
[22:13] <jcastro> fta: ok so he needs to fix all those files?
[22:15] <fta> not necessarily, COPYING says by default, it's GPL, but the other non GPL needs to be clarified.
[22:15] <fta> I see 4 files needing clarification
[22:15] <asac> jcastro: there are a bunch of files without license boilerplate
[22:15] <asac> ./gwibber/gwui.py
[22:16] <asac> ./gwibber/table.py
[22:16] <asac> ./gwibber/resources.py
[22:16] <jcastro> right
[22:16] <jcastro> I see the pastebin
[22:16] <asac> probably pretty much the list that has UNKNOWN
[22:16] <asac> jcastro: yeah. i wasnt sure if its a parse problem or if its really "no license"
[22:17] <fta> asac, i don't think it's necessary to update all those files.
[22:17] <asac> fta: its not, but it would be good
[22:17] <fta> but well, if it is done, it's good
[22:17] <fta> yeah
[22:17] <asac> its just annoying without license
[22:18] <asac> like: ./gwibber/swp.py
[22:18] <asac> thats MIT license
[22:18] <asac> did the licensecheck digest that?
[22:18] <asac> seems it didnt
[22:20] <asac> hmm
[22:20] <asac> looked at a bunch of .py files in /usr/share
[22:20] <asac> seems python is kind of explictly not using license boilerplates
[22:20] <asac> let me check further
[22:21] <asac> yeah
[22:21] <asac> so i dont care ... its just cumbersome to document for archive admins then
[22:21] <asac> look at all files ... if there is nothing, just file it as "same as default COPYING"
[22:21] <asac> and if its not, explicitly list it
[22:22] <fta> +1
[22:23] <asac> fta: so add the BSD and the MIT and maybe take a quick look at all files
[22:23] <asac> to see if there is something
[22:23] <asac> then its fine
[22:25] <fta> hm, LOCALEDIR = "/usr/local/share/locale"
[22:25] <fta> # Set this way as in setup.cfg we have prefix=/usr/local
[22:26] <fta> but not anymore once packaged as a deb
[22:26] <fta> asac, did you try the locales?
[22:26] <asac> fta: os tjat gwibber?
[22:27] <asac> fta: lets fix that after FF ;)
[22:37] <fta> hm, MIT is not in /usr/share/common-licenses
[22:40] <fta> asac, what about this? http://paste.ubuntu.com/119418/
[22:41] <fta> (without the typo)
[22:45] <asac> fta: did you take the mit license from the website referred to in the file
[22:45] <asac> ?
[22:49] <fta> yes
[22:50] <asac> fta: for me it looks better than i could have done it ;)
[22:51] <asac> fta:  * Dual licensed under the MIT (MIT-LICENSE.txt)
[22:51] <asac> i s there a MIT_LICENSE.txt in the tarball=?
[22:51] <fta> no
[22:51] <asac> remove that reference then
[22:52] <fta> ok
[22:52] <asac> same for GPT-LICENSE
[22:52] <fta> sold
[22:52] <asac> fta: you can say "see blow"
[22:52] <asac> below ;)
[22:52] <fta> yep
[22:52] <asac> bellow -> blow -> below ;)
[22:52] <asac> (just noticed the bellow in that copyright file)
[22:53] <fta> yep, that was the typo from above
[22:54] <fta> ok, re-pushing then..
[22:55] <fta> done
[23:07] <fta> asac, what should i do the missing google earth dekstop logo?
[23:07] <fta> +for
[23:09] <asac> fta: how did that disappear?
[23:09] <fta> it was: Icon=/usr/lib/googleearth/resources/googleearth-icon.png
[23:09] <fta> but this file is gone now, and there's nothing similar in the upstream package
[23:10] <fta> nothing suitable for a desktop icon
[23:10] <fta> just a small 16x16 earth
[23:13] <asac> how did it look like?
[23:14] <asac> cant we produce something similar?
[23:14] <fta> i think it was like that: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FJIwg2jbUP4/SQ0ZG9ZK3FI/AAAAAAAAA-w/UqTG6zcWXao/s200/google_earth_logo.png
[23:15] <fta> but i can't find it anywhere on a google site. the packager could have fetched it from there
[23:16] <asac> fta: is that an official google earth icon?
[23:16] <asac> (sorry ... didnt really use it)
[23:16] <fta> i think it was, at least for for a while
[23:16] <fta> -for
[23:17] <fta> asac, this one was not, for sure: http://lh5.ggpht.com/rajputro/RhVQR9T06QI/AAAAAAAAAUQ/OlsSVjhIE0U/s800/google_new_logo.jpg
[23:17] <asac> lol
[23:18] <asac> i guess a bunch of folks would find that offensive
[23:20] <rzr> it's even double offensive
[23:20] <asac> funny. i always thought that we (debian) had hot-babe in the archive
[23:20] <asac> but seems it was really removed at some point
[23:20] <asac> actually thought those that felt offended didnt win
[23:20] <asac> http://dindinx.net/hotbabe/download.php
[23:20] <asac> http://lwn.net/Articles/113644/
[23:20] <asac> i remember lengthy rants about that in debian ;)
[23:21] <rzr> asac: did you get my notice about FB?
[23:21] <rzr> asac: it's late but...
[23:21] <fta> maybe i can fetch this tiny one: http://www.google.com/educators/edu_products_earth.html
[23:22] <fta> or this one: http://www.google.com/intl/en_uk/mobile/apple/earth/
[23:25] <asac> rzr: no. just repaste please
[23:25] <asac> fta: cant you make the installer package fetch the file?
[23:25] <rzr> hi asac , just pushed a branch before going on vacations hope it helps
[23:26] <asac> fta: probably safer legal wise if the installer packages needs internet access anyways
[23:26] <fta> asac, sure, that's what i want, i don't want to bundle the icon in the packaging
[23:26] <asac> good
[23:26] <asac> fta: well. then take any ;)
[23:26] <fta> hm, both are gif
[23:26] <asac> heh
[23:27] <asac> rzr: let me check my mail
[23:28] <asac> rzr: what branch is itt? didnt get any merge request or so
[23:28] <rzr> lemme check
[23:29] <asac> fta: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FJIwg2jbUP4/SQ0ZG9ZK3FI/AAAAAAAAA-w/UqTG6zcWXao/s200/google_earth_logo.png
[23:29] <asac> thats a png?
[23:29] <asac> or is that extension a hoax?
[23:29] <rzr> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/firefox-extensions/flashblock.ubuntu/+merges
[23:30] <fta> but the url looks weak, and unofficial
[23:30] <asac> yeah ;)
[23:31] <asac> fta: maybe you can find it on imageshack.us or something ;)
[23:33] <asac> fta: if nothing helps, just use the sucky 10x10 image and fix that after FF ;)
[23:39] <rzr> asac: is that the right way to propose merging ? or did i miss some LP tricks ?
[23:39] <asac> rzr: thanks. a bit strange that i didnt get a mail .. did you rquest merge today?
[23:40] <rzr> yes couple of hours ago
[23:40] <asac> rzr: yes seems right. one question though. what date do you choose?
[23:40] <asac> for the cvs up?
[23:40] <rzr> yes
[23:40] <asac> i mean how did you find that date?
[23:40] <rzr> cvs up -D
[23:40] <rzr> on the webpage
[23:40] <rzr> day+1
[23:40] <asac> yeah i know that ;) ... is that  a release?
[23:40] <rzr> yes
[23:40] <asac> rzr: so they dont tag?
[23:40] <rzr> no
[23:40] <asac> ok. messy upstream
[23:41] <rzr> have to check tough
[23:41] <rzr> yes that's messy
[23:41] <rzr> they use to add 'a' suffix too
[23:41] <asac> a?
[23:41] <rzr> on 'pre-release'
[23:41] <asac> dont understand that
[23:41] <asac> ah
[23:41] <rzr> ok
[23:41] <asac> thats ok for the version
[23:41] <asac> you have to emake 1.1.1~a out of it
[23:41] <asac> i assume you mean the version used in install.rdf
[23:42] <rzr> yea i use the version in install.rdf
[23:42] <rzr> and add the ~snapshot to make sure
[23:43] <rzr> let me explain
[23:43] <rzr> 1 is release
[23:43] <rzr> then 2a
[23:43] <rzr> 2a again ...
[23:43] <asac> rzr: your commit message for revision 17 is not perfect. ... but ok ;)
[23:43] <rzr> then 2
[23:43] <rzr> etc
[23:43] <rzr> that's what I had to use epoc
[23:44] <asac> rzr: you should really use ~a
[23:44] <asac> for 2a
[23:44] <rzr> i do
[23:44] <asac> that will always be correct
[23:44] <asac> e.g. 1.1.2a1 == 1.1.2~a1
[23:44] <rzr> but 2a comes before 2
[23:44] <asac> oh so they release 2, 2a, 2b ... in that order?
[23:45] <rzr> no
[23:45] <asac> give me an xample then ;) (i guess i missed something)
[23:45] <rzr> 1a , 1a , 1, 2a, 2 ,  etc
[23:45] <asac> ok so you had:
[23:46] <asac> 1.3.11a~snapshot20081113-0ubuntu1
[23:46] <rzr> me : 1a~snapshot1 , 1a~snapshot2 , 1:1 , 2a~snapshot1 , ...
[23:46] <asac> and then you had problems using 1.3.11~snapshot
[23:46] <asac> i see. so yes. you should have used 11~a~snapshot
[23:46] <rzr> me : 1a~snapshot1 , 1a~snapshot2 , 1:1~snapshot1 , 2a~snapshot1 , ...
[23:46] <rzr> yes
[23:46] <asac> or 11~a+snapshot
[23:46] <rzr> i used epoc instead
[23:47] <asac> thats bad
[23:47] <asac> really
[23:47] <asac> epochs shouldnt be used deliberately
[23:47] <rzr> is 11~a+snapshot beter ?
[23:47] <asac> yes
[23:47] <rzr> ok
[23:47] <asac> definitly
[23:47] <rzr> let me commit it again
[23:47] <asac> so what is in the archive right now?
[23:47] <rzr> ok ?
[23:47] <asac> no
[23:48] <asac> so what do we package here? 1.3.11 final?
[23:48] <rzr> current one is : 1.3.11a~snapshot20081113-0ubuntu1
[23:48] <asac> why do we have ~snapshot at all there? because we dont know for sure its really final? (e.g. no tag)?
[23:48] <rzr> 1.3.11~snapshot will overide current one ?
[23:49] <asac> no
[23:49] <asac> rzr: so is it 1.3.11 final now or not ;)?
[23:49] <rzr> i need the snapshot info since i use using cvs -D
[23:49] <rzr> it is
[23:49] <asac> ok
[23:49] <asac> but in general it should be final
[23:49] <asac> so next version will be 1.3.12 ?
[23:50] <rzr> 1.3.12a
[23:50] <rzr> :)
[23:50]  * rzr gives some relaxing ball to asac
[23:50] <asac> ok
[23:51] <asac> rzr: use 1.3.11f now ... and say in changelog which date you took the snapshot
[23:51] <rzr> all we need is a version higher than 1.3.11a~snapshot20081113-0ubuntu1, that starts with 1.3.11
[23:51] <asac> rzr: next will be 1.3.12~a+snapshotXXXXXX
[23:51] <asac> then
[23:51] <asac> so you can do a final 1.3.12-0ubuntu1 ;)
[23:52] <asac> so 1.3.11f-0ubuntu1
[23:52] <rzr> ok makes sense
[23:52] <asac> i checked
[23:52] <asac> dpkg --compare-versions 1.1.12f lt 1.1.13 && echo asd
[23:52] <rzr> i dont like this 'f' :)
[23:52] <asac> which works
[23:52] <asac> rzr: well. its better than an epoch
[23:52] <asac> best we can do now
[23:52] <rzr> i trust you
[23:53] <rzr> can't we keep the ~snapshot info even for f version ?
[23:54] <asac> rzr: could you pleaes check if there is a tag?
[23:54] <asac> if so i woul dreally prefer to release that instead of a snapshot
[23:54] <asac> for jaunty
[23:54] <rzr> because i am sure the guy ommit to change the version in install.rdf
[23:55] <asac> rzr: in that case you could still use 1.3.11f+cvs20080901
[23:55] <rzr> let me check if it's tagged again
[23:55] <asac> rzr: use cvs status -v SOMEFILE to see all tags
[23:55] <asac> but i guess you know that
[23:55] <rzr> why: +cvs is better than ~snapshot ?
[23:56] <asac> rzr: you said you wanted to use ~snapshot even though it was final release because you wanted to use snapshot in case they forget to bump version ininstall.rdf
[23:56] <asac> so i suggested to use +XXXX
[23:56] <asac> +cvs or +snapshot
[23:56] <rzr> ok
[23:57] <rzr> btw no usable tag : http://rzr.online.fr/q/tag
[23:59] <asac> rzr: ok ... sigh
[23:59] <asac> rzr: feel free to use snapshot then
[23:59] <rzr> brb


[07:44] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:22] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[08:22] <diplo> Morning all
[08:29] <brobostigon> o/
[08:55] <daftykins> \o
[10:16] <SuperMatt> what's new y'all?
[10:17] <brobostigon> new or not so new, more paperwork.
[10:59] <zmoylan-pi> so much for edisons dream of a paperless office... :-)
[11:52] <diddledan> ello ello
[11:52] <diddledan> https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/10/17218512/youtube-hack-despacito-vevo-music-videos
[11:59] <zmoylan-pi> hacking the videos is just wrong... how will the trolls dispense their usual hate and bile when the video changes?
[13:38] <czajkowski> anyone seeing FF become very slow recently on Ubuntu ?
[13:38] <SuperMatt> nope
[13:38] <czajkowski> doingf the same search on FF and chromeim and pages timing out on FF
[13:39] <zmoylan-pi> i have seen firefox showing this page is slow messages more as of late...
[13:39] <zmoylan-pi> but then i run the most ancient of hardware :-)
[13:39] <daftykins> if you've been through a number of upgrades, it never hurts to have a good profile clear-out
[13:40] <zmoylan-pi> i usually wipe laptops from scratch to avoid cruft
[13:40] <czajkowski> true true
[13:40] <czajkowski> it's becoming painful and unuseable this week
[13:42] <czajkowski> Version 59.0.2 (64-bit)
[13:43] <zmoylan-pi> 59.0.2 (32 bit) told ya :-)
[13:48] <daftykins> czajkowski: mmm move your ~/.mozilla i think it is and try afresh, see if it miraculously behaves
[13:49]  * zmoylan-pi currently downloads 64bit xubuntu for a new computer...
[13:53] <daftykins> what's 'new' to zmoylan-pi? ;)
[13:55] <zmoylan-pi> €209 when i got it... http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/6734514/Trail/searchtext%3EHP+WINDOWS.htm
[13:55] <daftykins> ah yes... those
[13:56] <zmoylan-pi> if i can get it running linux it'll be good enough for me... :-)
[13:57] <daftykins> i wonder if it'll be one of those hellish 32-bit EFI implementations
[13:57] <zmoylan-pi> has resisted booting of my trusty 32bit xubuntu so far... so grabbing a 64bit iso atm
[13:58] <zmoylan-pi> lot of gobbledegook in bios relating to tpm i've never seen before...
[13:59] <daftykins> mm TPMs are pretty moot for most use-cases
[14:00] <zmoylan-pi> my gut instinct when i see something i've never seen before is to blame it... :-)
[14:01] <zmoylan-pi> upto now, to install linux, enter bios, disable uefi, disable secure boot. instert usb key, turn on...
[14:02] <daftykins> there's absolutely zero reason to avoid EFI
[14:03] <zmoylan-pi> i like a good old fashioned bios... :-)
[14:03] <daftykins> it's typically emulated now so often buggy, it's actually less likely to work
[14:03] <zmoylan-pi> good enough when they came along a few years after i started using pcs... :-)
[14:09] <daftykins> often fighting new standards gets you burnt in one way or another though
[14:10] <zmoylan-pi> if it doesn't just work then the new standard is crap... :-)
[14:13] <czajkowski> daftykins: ho would I do that?
[14:13] <czajkowski> daftykins: ie move ot to there?
[14:13] <czajkowski> where
[14:13] <daftykins> czajkowski: in a terminal, mv ~/.mozilla ~/.mozilla-old
[14:13] <zmoylan-pi> just rename it i suppose?
[14:13] <daftykins> then reverse them to revert back
[14:14] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: on those cheap machines they tried to screw over anyone dumping Windows by doing this whole 32-bit EFI thing a lot of the time, not sure if it *is* the case with that model - but we saw it a lot
[14:14] <daftykins> standard 64-bit EFIs didn't give as much grief, though some were still hardcoded to look for the windows boot image etc of course
[14:14] <daftykins> not had any trouble with kit i've used though, oddly
[14:14] <zmoylan-pi> thanks for the heads up daftykins, i like a challenge... and a reason to hold a new grudge against ms... >:-)
[14:15] <daftykins> if you buy cheap, you kinda deserve the hassle :D
[14:16] <zmoylan-pi> it's kinda why i went with hp.  as often as they've annoyed me they're generic enough to work the way i want
[14:17] <czajkowski> daftykins: ahhhh
[14:18] <zmoylan-pi> speed difference?
[14:20] <daftykins> i think that was just the initial eureka :)
[14:20] <czajkowski> zmoylan-pi: nope diddly squat
[14:20] <czajkowski> baffling
[14:20] <czajkowski> and annoying as all my work stuff is done on FF
[14:20] <zmoylan-pi> or now buried in adverts and popups... :-)
[14:21] <daftykins> could still be a DNS element to it
[14:21] <daftykins> are you at home on a domestic broadband service, or?
[14:21] <zmoylan-pi> is system faster in chromium?
[14:28] <zmoylan-pi> 64bit xubuntu boots live in a few seconds... \o/
[14:28] <daftykins> but will it boot once installed to eMMC :D
[14:29] <zmoylan-pi> that's to discover later... have to pop to shops for a wifi usb drive i have a coupon... :-)
[14:30] <daftykins> wifi... wat
[14:31] <zmoylan-pi> it's a sandisk usb drive with a batter and wifi. you can run an app on android and ios and copy/write/stream data to them. handy for when you want to send a few files to/from a mate with ios and can't otg them
[14:32] <zmoylan-pi> because a usb drive with a lightning connector is more expensive
[14:32] <daftykins> ah i saw lightning connector + USB A SanDisk flash drives in the airport
[14:32] <daftykins> *nod*
[14:32] <zmoylan-pi> so wifi it is :-)
[14:44] <czajkowski> daftykins: at home on A&A but works fine on all other browsers
[14:44] <czajkowski> jst odd it's behaving so badly on FF
[14:46] <daftykins> oh right
[14:47] <daftykins> czajkowski: might not hurt to try changing the proxy setting, in Firefox settings, from auto -> to no, although i don't see that having any bearing
[14:47] <czajkowski> daftykins: ah may try that
[14:47] <czajkowski> thanks
[14:47] <daftykins> np :)


[01:22] <Sarvatt> RAOF: got a nouveau-kernel-source that works on 2.6.32 on a PPA by any chance?
[01:22] <Sarvatt> or does the one in edgers work?
[01:24] <Sarvatt> something tells me this 185.36 nvidia blob isn't new enough to support xserver 1.7+..
[01:29] <Sarvatt> yep we're gonna need to upgrade the nvidia blob to 190.xx at least for xserver 1.7
[13:16] <unggnu> hi all
[13:16] <unggnu> Does anyone know if someone is working on a KMS vesa driver?
[13:16] <tjaalton> ask ajax on #xorg-devel
[13:16] <unggnu> This would make KMS available for everybody, at least without acceleration :)
[13:16] <unggnu> thx
[13:16] <tjaalton> but don't hold your breath
[13:17] <unggnu> Isn't it supposed to be the easiest integeration since it has no acceleration?
[13:22] <unggnu> Does current fglrx not work with 2.6.32 or is it a problem with the Ubuntu kernel?
[13:33] <tjaalton> it never is a kernel problem :)
[13:34] <unggnu> Because I have read somwhere else that 2.6.32 is supported through fglrx
[13:36] <unggnu> I just was interested how fglrx deals with radeon KMS in lucid
[13:36] <unggnu> *were
[13:37] <jcristau> i guess badly, but then it's fglrx so that was an easy guess
[13:38] <tjaalton> I don't think the blobs will/can ever support kms
[13:39] <unggnu> Yes, I know, I just wanted to know if there is a problem when using radeon and switching to FGLRX
[13:39] <unggnu> I am only using FGLRX because of Powerplay
[13:40] <unggnu> 2D acceleration is very poor and XV still tears
[13:40] <unggnu> I have to use OpenGL video output, this driver is a mess
[13:40] <unggnu> but OpenGL doesn't tear only if vsync is forced and no composite is used
[14:01] <unggnu> ciao
[17:12] <tormod> unggnu had some good points here though, about fglrx
[17:13] <tormod> proper radeon KMS support needs early loading of radeon, and fglrx does not like radeon I guess
[17:13] <tormod> so it has to decide in early boot whether to for radeon or fglrx
[17:14] <tjaalton> same thing with nvidia
[17:16] <tjaalton> don't know how to deal with that..
[17:17] <jcristau> the closed drivers already deal with moving libGL.so.1 and libglx.so away
[17:17] <jcristau> they can add radeon.ko and nouveau.ko
[17:17] <tjaalton> hmm, right
[17:18] <tormod> does fglrx install its own libGL?
[17:18] <tjaalton> of course
[17:18] <tjaalton> and diverts the mesa one
[17:20] <tormod> so they should just install a do-not-load-radeon modprobe blacklist then, or move the module but that's difficult since it's at a new place for every kernel
[17:21] <tormod> and blacklist probably don't stop modalias loading
[17:22] <jcristau> it does
[17:22] <tormod> wasn't there some talk about a fglrx.ko which could coexist with radeon.ko?
[17:23] <jcristau> that's its whole point actually
[17:23] <jcristau> also, modinfo radeon|awk '/^filename:/ { print $2 }'
[17:23] <tormod> the point of blacklists?
[17:25] <tormod> jcristau, your command lists the current location of the radeon.ko. but if you upgrade the kernel, fglrx will have to move the new one.
[17:25] <jcristau> yes, the point of blacklists is to prevent automatic loading
[17:25] <jcristau> true re: the modinfo thingy
[17:26] <tormod> I thought the blacklist was dealt with by modinfo
[17:26] <jcristau> modprobe
[17:26] <tormod> yes :)
[17:26] <jcristau> udev uses modprobe -b
[17:26] <tormod> oh does it
[17:26] <jcristau> which doesn't do anything if the module is blacklisted
[17:27] <tormod> so that's why it is so slow :)
[17:29] <tormod> where does udev do the autoloading?
[17:30] <tormod> /lib/udev/rules.d/80-drivers.rules
[17:35] <tormod> so why does this not load the radeon module?
[17:35] <jcristau> do you have CONFIG_DRM_RADEON_KMS=y?
[17:35] <tormod> yes
[17:35] <jcristau> dunno then
[17:38] <tormod> sudo modprobe -b pci:v00001002d00005653sv00001025sd00000070bc03sc00i00
[17:38] <tormod> FATAL: Module pci:v00001002d00005653sv00001025sd00000070bc03sc00i00 not found.
[17:39] <jcristau> modinfo radeon should list some modaliases..
[17:39] <tormod> it does list my card
[17:40] <jcristau> maybe check how /lib/modules/`uname -r`/modules.alias is generated
[17:41] <tormod> funny enough my card is in there too
[17:42] <jcristau> weird.
[17:43] <tormod> I think the kernel does tell udev about it
[17:43] <tormod> does not
[17:47] <jcristau> tormod: udevadm info --export-db shows the modalias?
[17:48] <tormod> yes
[17:48] <tormod> but that is now, after radeon has been loaded "manually"
[17:49] <jcristau> oh, it's not there before?
[17:49] <tormod> I don't know :)
[17:49] <jcristau> i'll try and see what happens when 2.6.32 hits sid
[17:50] <tormod> week old kernel release, in Debian? :)
[17:50] <tormod> maybe I should try this before loading radeon
[17:52] <jcristau> well, we're at -rc8, and 18:18 < CIA-3> waldi * r14741 /dists/trunk/linux-2.6/debian/changelog:  debian/changelog: Prepare to release (2.6.32-1).
[17:56] <tormod> brb
[18:16] <tormod> must be something with modprobe's alias resolving
[18:27] <tormod> for instance, modprobe --resolve-alias  pci:v00001389d00000002sv*sd*bc*sc*i* -> applicom
[18:28] <tormod> modprobe --resolve-alias  pci:v00001002d00005653sv*sd*bc*sc*i* -> (nothing)
[18:32] <tormod> omg plz forget everything I said while I go hiding, I just discovered an old modprobe file I had put there for debugging some stuff months ago...
[18:33] <jcristau> hah.
[19:04] <Sarvatt> so many problems with intel now :( this happened 3 times today freezing x - http://paste.ubuntu.com/336069/
[19:08] <tormod> ok, I have been spreading a fair amount of disinformation about radeon KMS, but the initialisation race can still be a problem. Here, kms can take up to 1.7s to initialise and nothing stops X from starting before it is ready.
[19:08] <tormod> I wish upstart could log events with timestamps
[19:09] <Sarvatt> there isnt a wait after loading it in the initramfs
[19:09] <Sarvatt> ?
[19:09] <tormod> Sarvatt, not for radeon, it is loaded later
[19:09] <jcristau> i don't think it should be loaded in the initramfs
[19:17] <Sarvatt> hooks/framebuffer packs in all gpu and agp modules and it waits for fb0, dri/card0 and fbcon to load as well before moving on from what I see, I'm probably misunderstanding though
[19:20] <Sarvatt> looking at initramfs-tools-0.92bubuntu55 which is waaay different than debians
[19:22] <tormod> this is only in use if you boot with video= right?
[19:23] <tormod> uh no
[19:31] <Sarvatt> http://paste.ubuntu.com/336085
[20:10] <yofel> hi, would bug 491483 be SRUable?
[22:10] <Sarvatt> yeaaah I give up on attempting to package i915 gallium tonight :D
[22:44] <johanbr> hmm... xserver-xorg-video-nouveau: Depends: linux-nouveau-modules which is a virtual package
[22:46] <johanbr> did I manage to hit the PPA just while it's being updated?
[22:47] <johanbr> (the PPA being xorg-edgers)
[22:47] <Sarvatt> nope, sounds like it was synced with debian instead of ubuntu
[22:48] <johanbr> oh
[22:49] <johanbr> so the dependency should be on nouveau-kernel-source?
[22:49] <Sarvatt> just checked and the one waiting to build uses linux-nouveau-modules too, i uploaded that 10 hours ago..
[22:49] <Sarvatt> yeah its linux-nouveau-modules in debian
[22:50] <Sarvatt> i'll upload a new one but it'll be a looong time until it builds at the rate ppa builds are going
[22:51] <johanbr> alright
[22:51] <johanbr> but I just downloaded the source package, which does have Depends: nouveau-kernel-source in debian/control
[22:51] <johanbr> weird
[22:52] <Sarvatt> oh? what version is it?
[22:52] <Sarvatt> are you on karmic or something?
[22:52] <johanbr> oh, never mind, wrong version
[22:52] <johanbr> I didn't put in the deb-src line for the ppa
[22:54] <johanbr> I'll see if I can fix it locally in the meantime... thank you for the help
[22:55] <Sarvatt> no worries, updated source should be up in about 5 minutes if not, just finished uploading it
[23:00] <Sarvatt> hmm, is a xbox 360 controller supposed to use -joystick? shows up as a mouse here
[23:06] <johanbr> hmm... the package compiled, but didn't work too well: "drmOpen failed"
[23:07] <johanbr> http://pastebin.com/f595ad9b5
[23:12] <Sarvatt> theres no dri for it
[23:13] <Sarvatt> trying to remember what options i used with it, page i wrote it on has changed :(
[23:14] <jcristau> well nouveau needs the drm
[23:14] <jcristau> but he didn't paste dmesg, so..
[23:27] <Sarvatt> ahh maybe he didnt force KMS on with the module option, i remember having that same problem now
[23:27] <Sarvatt> found my old dmesg from it working http://sarvatt.com/downloads/nouveau-kms.txt
[23:28] <Sarvatt> i couldnt start x without KMS but that was like 6 months ago
[23:29] <Sarvatt> same exact gpu though
[23:33] <johanbr> well... got a little further... the nouveau kernel module loads fine, but then the system locks hard when gdm starts
[23:34] <Sarvatt> try booting with nouveau.modeset=1 added to grub johanbr
[23:34] <johanbr> alright, I'll give that a try, thanks again
[23:35] <Sarvatt> i had the same problem on the same card 6 months ago when I was messing with it, had to use KMS to get it all working
[23:36] <Sarvatt> should probably ship a modprobe.d rule for nouveau with the package
[23:37] <tormod> Sarvatt, johanbr, if the new nouveau dep is wrong, just use my old package
[23:37] <tormod> that dep is most of the change anyway
[23:38] <johanbr> I just replaced it with nouveau-kernel-source and rebuilt
[23:40] <Sarvatt> heres what my logs looked like with KMS, when i tried without KMS it got stuck trying to restart gdm constantly http://sarvatt.com/downloads/nouveau-kms.txt
[23:41] <Sarvatt> nvidia didnt have a blob that worked on xserver 1.7 back then after the video abi changed, at least 190.xx and up works now
[23:43] <Sarvatt> i'll try it out right now, purging 195.22 i manually installed
[23:47] <johanbr> about to do the same
[23:51] <Sarvatt> i cant even build the kernel module
[23:51] <Sarvatt> /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.32-6-generic/arch/x86/Makefile:81: stack protector enabled but no compiler support
[23:52] <Sarvatt> think ccache is screwed up on this machine
[23:54] <Sarvatt> nouveau sets a initramfs rebuild trigger before it makes the module?
[23:55] <Sarvatt> then it does it again after the module is built, ah
[23:59] <Sarvatt> yep it aint working right now: http://sarvatt.com/downloads/gallium.txt