[01:25] <Michelle_Qimo> pleia2: Just wanted to let you know, mhall119 suggested I touch base, and let you know I'm happy to help in any way I'm capable.
[01:26] <pleia2> hi Michelle_Qimo :) welcome
[01:26] <pleia2> and itnet7 too, florida invasion, hooray!
[01:27] <Michelle_Qimo> Thanks for having me!  I'm not sure what all I can contribute, but I'm certainly willing, just holler!
[01:27] <crashsystems> +1 Florida :D
[01:27] <pleia2> Michelle_Qimo: I am still trying to get some things together post-session, but I will certainly let you know soon :) thanks!
[01:28] <Michelle_Qimo> sure thing.  :-)
[01:28] <crashsystems> is there a mailing list for the project?
[01:28] <mhall119> pleia2: I've been advocating for you
[01:28] <pleia2> crashsystems: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-learning
[01:28] <pleia2> mhall119: thank you!
[01:28] <pleia2> we had a team meeting last night and I said "UOW session tomorrow, we will get volunteers, are we ready?"
[01:29] <pleia2> we'll see for sure now! :)
[01:30] <hal14450> Michelle_Qimo, you and mhall119 got high praise from Beth Lynn of Ohio Linux Fest @ Ontario Linux Fest this year ;-)
[01:30] <Michelle_Qimo> hal14450: aaw, I appreciate that!
[01:30] <mhall119> hal14450: sweet! and we weren't even there
[01:31] <hal14450> i was sitting near her for the final keynote and she mentioned Qimo ;-) i mentioned how much i like it too
[01:32] <Michelle_Qimo> v.2 in Feb!
[01:32] <hal14450> cool
[01:32] <mhall119> maybe a v1.5 before then
[01:33] <hal14450> i'm gonna bug my neighbors to take a spare box from me for their kids to run it on
[01:33] <Michelle_Qimo> pleia2: I've subscribed to the mailing list.  Looking forward to contributing.
[01:33] <pleia2> Michelle_Qimo: great, welcome!
[01:33] <crashsystems> I've also subscribed.
[01:34] <pleia2> crashsystems: cool, thanks!
[01:35] <nigel_nb> pleia2: just reading the logs of your session.. great one :)
[01:35] <pleia2> nigel_nb: thank you
[01:36] <nigel_nb> pleia2: can i go ahead and take ownership of a few topics?
[01:36] <nigel_nb> one to start off..
[01:37] <pleia2> nigel_nb: feel free to edit the wiki and put your name next to them, along with what you're doing (planning on developing as asciidoc, moodle, just plain text...)
[01:37] <nigel_nb> pleia2: okay..thanks
[01:37] <pleia2> if someone wants to help out, they'll know to contact you
[01:38] <nigel_nb> do we have a help on asciidoc?
[01:38] <nigel_nb> or moodle?
[01:38] <nigel_nb> for new members...
[01:38] <mhall119> nigel_nb: I have an asciidoc link, one second
[01:38] <pleia2> on learn.ubft.net there is a moodle course, with videos
[01:38] <mhall119> http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/
[01:38] <pleia2> thanks mhall119
[01:38] <nigel_nb> oh okay.. thanks pleia2
[01:42] <pleia2> ok, I'm going to draft up a "getting start with the team" document
[01:43] <pleia2> probably won't finish tonight, but i'll post to the list when it is
[01:45] <doctormo> hey guys
[01:45] <doctormo> I hear there are some people wondering about bzr and launchpad
[01:45] <pleia2> BiosElement: you about?
[01:45] <doctormo> BiosElement: ping
[01:46] <BiosElement> Wow I'm popular today >.< Yeah I'm about.
[01:46]  * pleia2 hugs BiosElement
[01:46] <nigel_nb> thanks mhall119
[01:46] <nigel_nb> doctormo: yes.. a little
[01:48] <nigel_nb> doctormo: still reading up everything about bzr
[01:48] <doctormo> you don't have to read everything up on bzr to get the branch
[01:50] <nigel_nb> doctormo: where do I start?
[01:50] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: The best way to learn bzr is by doing it. It's not like you can 'break' bzr in any major way.
[01:50] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'm getting things installed one by one
[01:50] <nigel_nb> just getting asciidoc up... bzr is next
[01:54] <doctormo> I'll be back online in 20 or 30 mins to give you all a short class in it
[01:54] <doctormo> Collect all students together
[01:54] <pleia2> BiosElement: I think we want to get that "step by step here is the easy way to get going with contributing your asciidoc to bzr" document out
[01:54] <doctormo> And me and BiosElement will teach something
[01:54] <doctormo> Watever we do, we'll record it into a class tonight!
[01:54] <BiosElement> pleia2: That's what I'm digging around for. I've got it somewhere around here.
[01:54] <pleia2> ok
[01:55] <BiosElement> I 'do' have the quickstart for asciidoc here. Still haven't gotten a bzr guide written I'm afraid.
[01:56] <BiosElement> Getting Started with AsciiDoc: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309031/
[01:56] <pleia2> alright
[01:56] <pleia2> I think the bzr one is important, so if we do a session tonight on it we'll pull from that I guess
[01:57] <BiosElement> That's what I thought. I've actually poked around but haven't found a bzr guide myself and since I've got it setup already I'd no-doubt forget a few important steps if I attempted to do it myself.
[01:58] <pleia2> yeah, I still have the log from when I got set up too
[01:58] <BiosElement> I may just breakdown and do the guide the hard way via virtualbox >.<
[01:58] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: I could probably help with it
[01:59] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: since I'm just getting it ready
[02:00] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Thanks. ^_^ I'll be logging tonight anyway and am actually loading a virtualbox install of karmic now.
[02:00] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'll strike you a deal :D walk me through it and I'll pastebinit my log :D
[02:01] <mhall119> BiosElement: how about a shared screen session?
[02:02] <BiosElement> mhall119: Not a bad idea but I'm not sure it'd be really necessary.
[02:02] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well what've you gotten done so far? >.< You'll need a launchpad account, ssh keys (I think >.<) and the bazaar package installed.
[02:03] <nigel_nb> need to regenerate my ssh keys.. forgot to backthem while installing karmic
[02:03] <nigel_nb> bazar is installed.. already got a launchpad account
[02:05] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: You'll need the "ssh" package then. And IIRC the command to generate a keypair is ssh-keygen.
[02:05] <nigel_nb> just generated them
[02:05] <nigel_nb> uploading
[02:09] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: okay ssh key is up
[02:09] <nigel_nb> now what do I do?
[02:10] <BiosElement> Probably a good idea would be to create a folder with a sample readme in it and enable bzr version control on it so you can upload it to a repository on launchpad.
[02:11] <BiosElement> Normally I'd say to use a template but myself and doctormo are still hashing out the details so they're not quite complete yet.
[02:11] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: how do I do that?
[02:12] <BiosElement> Create a folder, make a file called "README" and toss some random "Hello World!" Text or whatever you like in it. Then in console cd to the directory and run bzr init
[02:14] <BiosElement> Oh, it'd also be a good idea to run bzr whoami 'Joe Doe<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Replacing the John doe with your name/e-mail. Might not be strictly needed but IIRC it helped with the revision logs.
[02:14] <pleia2> BiosElement: I've had a very very long day, I need to skip out for the evening
[02:14] <mhall119> you can generate keys from seahorse too
[02:15] <BiosElement> Aight, Night pleia2 ^_^
[02:15] <nigel_nb> night pleia2
[02:15] <pleia2> but, one thing we forgot when mine was getting set up: authentication rather than anonymous lp checkout
[02:15] <mhall119> night pleia2
[02:15] <BiosElement> And go get some creamer pleia2 :P
[02:15] <pleia2> elizabeth@r2d2:~$ ls .bazaar/
[02:15] <BiosElement> pleia2: When he pushes a branch to lp it should require authentication.
[02:15] <pleia2> authentication.conf  bazaar.conf
[02:15] <pleia2> so make sure you have that stuffs
[02:16] <pleia2> I think .bazaar/authentication.conf is what I was missing
[02:16] <pleia2> anyway, night all :)
[02:16] <BiosElement> Night pleia2
[02:16] <nigel_nb> i did the init
[02:17] <mhall119> you can just run bzr launchpad-login $lpusername
[02:17] <BiosElement> ls and you should see a .bzr folder or something similer now.
[02:17] <mhall119> to configure bzr with your launchpad id
[02:17] <BiosElement> mhall119: Thanks, I was hunting for that command >.< It's not on the bazaar launchpad wiki...or not on the page i was reading atleast
[02:17] <mhall119> BiosElement: no, I did bzr help launchpad
[02:18] <mhall119> I found it online somewhere once before, but I don't remember where now
[02:18] <BiosElement> mhall119: Ahh. Silly me. I forgot bzr was one of the few that had actually useful help menu's
[02:18] <nigel_nb> yes.. I see the .bzr
[02:18] <mhall119> yeah, bzr help $extension is very good
[02:19] <BiosElement> Now you need to add the README file to the vcs so bazaar actually "tracks" changes.
[02:19] <mhall119> BiosElement: is this just a bzr walkthrough, or specific to ubuntu-learning?
[02:20] <BiosElement> mhall119: It's basically just a bzr walkthrough but I'm getting him setup for ubuntu-learning work.
[02:20] <nigel_nb> mhall119 a bazaar walkthruogh for ubuntu-learning
[02:20] <mhall119> ok
[02:20] <BiosElement> now you can run bzr add *
[02:21] <nigel_nb> done
[02:21] <BiosElement> Note that this won't always work after you've already created a branch but it seems to work great for new branches.
[02:22] <mhall119> bzr add doesn't always work?
[02:22] <nigel_nb> ok
[02:22] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: what do I do when it does not work?
[02:22] <BiosElement> bzr add always works, but bzr add wildkey won't always work
[02:22] <mhall119> ah, ok
[02:22] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: When it doesn't always work you typeout the filenames. But you shouldn't have too often.
[02:23] <BiosElement> such as instead of wildkey it'd be bzr add README
[02:23] <mhall119> if you don't give it a file or wildcard, I think it adds anything in the directory not currently under version control
[02:23] <nigel_nb> ah..
[02:23] <nigel_nb> okay
[02:23] <BiosElement> or bzr add /folder/anotherfolder/filename.txt
[02:23] <BiosElement> mhall119: Well it's a wildkey but the add command only effects files 'not' under vcs so yes >.<
[02:24] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: an unrelated doubt
[02:24] <nigel_nb> is it normal for gedit to create a hidden file called "filename.txt~" ?
[02:24] <mhall119> yes
[02:24] <BiosElement> now here's a point I can't really help much. "bzr commit" is the command but IIRC by default ubuntu uses nano or something similer and I don't actually know the key command to "save" and commit.
[02:24] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Yes.  Then I can show you how to upload to a personal branch on launchpad.
[02:28] <nigel_nb> yep.. made a change and comitted it
[02:29] <BiosElement> Great. Want to upload it to launchpad?
[02:29] <nigel_nb> can I upload it and then delete it?
[02:30] <BiosElement> Yep.
[02:30] <nigel_nb> then I'd love to
[02:30] <BiosElement> To do so you need to login to launchpad via bazaar so it knows who you are. The command is bzr launchpad-login $lpusername
[02:30] <doctormo> OK and i'm back
[02:30] <BiosElement> replace lpusername with whatever your login for launchpad is
[02:30] <BiosElement> Welcome back doctormo ^_^
[02:30] <doctormo> BiosElement: Do we want to do a short class?
[02:31] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: did that some time earlier
[02:31] <BiosElement> doctormo: Already in the middle of a bazaar/launchpad primer. ^_^ I'm taking notes of all the commands needed for the guide.
[02:31] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well the next you just need to "push" the update to lp. If there isn't already a branch launchpad will create one for you.
[02:32] <BiosElement> Be sure to replace userid with your loginname and branch-name with whatever you want.Command is bzr push lp:~userid/ubuntu-learning-materials/branch-name
[02:32] <doctormo> BiosElement: Make sure to use `bzr branch lp:foo` instead of `bzr checkout lp:foo` because we want people to be able to work offline.
[02:33] <BiosElement> doctormo: Of course. I always tell people to branch. ^_^
[02:34] <nigel_nb> i get the error that it has uncommitted changes
[02:34] <doctormo> BiosElement: tow stepping, I'll let you take if from here then :-D
[02:34] <mhall119> did you commit you changes to README?
[02:34] <mhall119> nigel_nb: do bzr status
[02:34] <nigel_nb> its that random ~ file
[02:34] <nigel_nb> comitted it now
[02:34] <mhall119> oh
[02:34] <BiosElement> doctormo: Feel free to jump in, I don't mind. ^_^
[02:34] <mhall119> yeah, that probably got added by the bzr add *
[02:34] <nigel_nb> yep
[02:35] <BiosElement> mhall119: Suprising. I didn't think bzr would pickup on it. It's usually pretty good about not grabbing trash temp files.
[02:35] <nigel_nb> when I do the actual learning material work, I have to take care of it
[02:35] <nigel_nb> I'm more parial to vim anyway, so no trouble
[02:35] <nigel_nb> *partial
[02:35] <mhall119> BiosElement: you can setup .bzrignore I think
[02:36] <BiosElement> mhall119: True, but I've actually never had too besides for something like eclipse files >.<
[02:36] <doctormo> mhall119: You can, but by default it should have *.*~ in the regular expressions.
[02:36] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: After you've finished the push you can find your branch here.(replacing userid and branch-name of course.) https://code.launchpad.net/~userid/ubuntu-learning-materials/branch-name
[02:36] <nigel_nb> I get The authenticity of host 'bazaar.launchpad.net (<IP_ADDRESS>)' can't be established.
[02:36] <nigel_nb> RSA key fingerprint is 9d:38:3a:63:b1:d5:6f:c4:44:67:53:49:2e:ee:fc:89.
[02:36] <nigel_nb> is this normal?
[02:37] <BiosElement> It is for me.
[02:37] <nigel_nb> ok..saying yes
[02:37] <mhall119> it may be the first time you're connecting to launchpad with ssh
[02:37] <nigel_nb> yes
[02:37] <nigel_nb> permission denied
[02:37] <nigel_nb> I got "Permission denied (publickey)."
[02:38] <mhall119> did you add your public key to launchpad?
[02:38] <nigel_nb> yes
[02:38] <BiosElement> Did you upload your public key? Double check it's the right key then. It's easy to mix them up.
[02:38] <mhall119> what's your lp id?
[02:38] <nigel_nb> nigelbabu
[02:39] <mhall119> huh
[02:40] <nigel_nb> https://launchpad.net/~nigelbabu
[02:40] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: checked again
[02:40] <mhall119> nigel_nb: do you have the file ~/.ssh/id_rsa ?
[02:40] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Well looks right to me...Probably some silly mistake I made. doctormo take a look at this. >.>
[02:41] <nigel_nb> no
[02:41] <nigel_nb> i only have known hosts there
[02:41] <mhall119> where did you to ssh-keygen?
[02:41] <nigel_nb> i think its in home
[02:42] <mhall119> see if there is an id_rsa file there
[02:42] <mhall119> it should be in the same place your public key was
[02:42] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Interesting, this is why we really should finish off the 'init launchpad' code to sort all this rubbish out.
[02:42] <mhall119> same name as your publci key, only without the .pub
[02:43] <nigel_nb> my private key?
[02:43] <mhall119> that's what we're looking for, yeah
[02:43] <nigel_nb> yes
[02:43] <nigel_nb> its in the home directory
[02:43] <mhall119> it needs to be in ~/.ssh/
[02:43] <BiosElement> Sorry, unexpected phone call. Should be done in just a few.
[02:43] <nigel_nb> i should copy it there then?
[02:44] <mhall119> mv it
[02:44] <mhall119> files in your home directory are usually group readable
[02:44] <nigel_nb> done
[02:44] <mhall119> not try the bzr push command again
[02:44] <mhall119> s/not/now
[02:45] <doctormo> BiosElement: I'm going to head out to do some other chores, I think your handeling things well with mhall119
[02:45] <doctormo> Thanks guys!
[02:45] <nigel_nb> okay..the key problem is solved..I copied both my keys there
[02:45] <mhall119> np doctormo
[02:45] <nigel_nb> bye doctormo
[02:46] <mhall119> nigel_nb: did the push work?
[02:46] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Best to move them, you don't want your private key readable by anyone.
[02:46] <mhall119> I see that it did
[02:46] <nigel_nb> doctormo: oh. First time with keys
[02:46] <nigel_nb> mhall119 a new problem
[02:46] <nigel_nb> will give you paste bin
[02:47] <nigel_nb> mhall119: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309063/
[02:47] <mhall119> ah, different bzr repository formats it seems
[02:48] <mhall119> nigel_nb: do bzr --version
[02:48] <nigel_nb> is that because I'm trying to upload a txt instead of asciidoc?
[02:48] <mhall119> nigel_nb: no
[02:48] <mhall119> it's a bzr backend thing
[02:48] <nigel_nb> what do u need from there?
[02:49] <mhall119> just the version of bzr you have
[02:49] <nigel_nb> 2.0.0
[02:51] <mhall119> bzr is trying to create your branch built on top of the trunk2 branch
[02:51] <mhall119> but they use different storage formats
[02:52] <nigel_nb> oh
[02:52] <nigel_nb> is there something I can do to test bzr now?
[02:55] <mhall119> I see your branch was made
[02:55] <mhall119> https://code.launchpad.net/~nigelbabu/ubuntu-learning-materials/setting-up-email
[02:56] <mhall119> but I don't know enough about bzr to help with stacked branches and different formats
[02:57] <nigel_nb> ok
[02:57] <nigel_nb> how do i delete this branch?
[02:57] <mhall119> well, I can't branch off your branch, so many it didn't work at all
[02:58] <nigel_nb> got it deleted :)
[02:58] <nigel_nb> from inside the launchpad account
[02:58] <mhall119> bzr 2.0 must be using a new repository format
[02:58] <nigel_nb> oh
[02:58] <nigel_nb> so how I collaborate with the team?
[02:58] <mhall119> if you branch from ubuntu-learning-materials, it will probably use a compatible format
[02:59] <mhall119> I'd have to experiment to know for sure
[02:59] <nigel_nb> u mean instead of adding my user name?
[02:59] <mhall119> no
[03:00] <mhall119> I mean, when you go to add to someone else's work, you will branch their code, instead of doing bzr init
[03:00] <nigel_nb> oh that way
[03:00] <mhall119> in that case, it will probably make your local branch use the same format as they are using for the team branch
[03:01] <mhall119> for new stuff, you can specify a format when you do bzr init, I think
[03:01] <mhall119> but again, I don't know enough about this to be sure
[03:02] <nigel_nb> yea i got how to do it
[03:02] <nigel_nb> I'll try again
[03:03] <mhall119> you can run bzr help init to see all the options
[03:03] <mhall119> BiosElement: you still around?
[03:04] <BiosElement> I'm back, sorry I took so long
[03:04] <mhall119> it's past my bed time, I need to call it a night
[03:05] <mhall119> BiosElement: good, I didn't want to leave nigel_nb hanging
[03:05] <nigel_nb> no probs mhall119... thanks a lot
[03:05] <mhall119> I'll be around tomorrow
[03:05] <BiosElement> Aight, Take care mhall119
[03:05] <mhall119> see ya
[03:05] <nigel_nb> mhall119  g nite
[03:05] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: http://paste.ubuntu.com/309063/ tis is the error I get when I try to push
[03:06] <BiosElement> Well that's a new one on me >.<
[03:06] <mhall119> BiosElement: he's using bzr 2.0
[03:06] <mhall119> which seems to have a new default repository format
[03:06] <BiosElement> Well I
[03:06] <BiosElement> Well I've used bzr 2.0 also and have yet to run into that problem. Launchpad should support it just fine >.<
[03:07] <mhall119> I'm on 9.04 still, so I have bzr 1.13
[03:07] <mhall119> BiosElement: it's trying to create a stacked branch on ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk2
[03:07] <BiosElement> Hmmm
[03:07] <mhall119> and that branch has a different repository format than the one he bzr init-ed
[03:07] <mhall119> so it can't stack them
[03:08] <mhall119> okay, I'm really going to bed now
[03:08] <mhall119> good luck with this
[03:09] <BiosElement> Yeah, I'm stumped. perhaps pleia2 may have an idea when she gets back but ive got no idea >.>
[03:10] <nigel_nb> on the bazaar channel?
[03:18] <BiosElement> Possibly. Worth a shot
[03:21] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: got it done ... on my own :D
[03:22] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: you want me to add a wiki page on it?
[03:23] <BiosElement> Ahh, what'd you do?
[03:23] <BiosElement> And great work btw. sorry I couldn't help more
[03:24] <nigel_nb> it was a guess from what mhall119 told me
[03:24] <nigel_nb> my version was 2.0.0
[03:24] <BiosElement> Ahh cool
[03:24] <nigel_nb> so i created a new folder and initd it to 1.9 format.. on instict
[03:24] <nigel_nb> worked
[03:24] <BiosElement> Hmm, strange that it did but good
[03:25] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: now how do i delete it?
[03:25] <nigel_nb> :D
[03:26] <BiosElement> Go to the branch page and on the right there's a delete button for the branch
[03:26] <nigel_nb> nothing from the command line... ah
[03:27] <nigel_nb> I'll go through your material on asciidoc then :)
[03:27] <nigel_nb> thanks a lot for your help
[03:27] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: I'll create a how-to on the mailing list.. you could use it for the next newbie
[03:28] <BiosElement> Aight Thanks. Your more then welcome for my help although I hope the process can be much smoother in the future. ^_^
[03:28] <nigel_nb> yep...
[03:28] <nigel_nb> and now to ascii doc
[03:28] <BiosElement> Note that my branch of the asciidoc version is a draft and doctormo has made extensive revisions. >.<
[03:28] <nigel_nb> when I first start working....
[03:29] <nigel_nb> I just type into a txt?
[03:29] <BiosElement> Yep. Pure .txt is best.
[03:29] <nigel_nb> does it make sense on making this how-to in ascii docs?
[03:29] <nigel_nb> dual purpose of me learning asciidoc and contributing
[03:30] <BiosElement> Sure. That's how I'm making the Getting Started. http://paste.ubuntu.com/309031/ THat's a valid asciidoc file
[03:31] <nigel_nb> oh
[03:32] <nigel_nb> how do u get that asciidoc in a book format?
[03:33] <BiosElement> Well not exactly a such thing as "book" format although I've used that term before. Typically I just generate html files using asciidoc filename.txt
[03:33] <nigel_nb> that link to each other?
[03:34] <BiosElement> Nope, it generates one long page. But you 'can' generate them seperate by making a different file for each chapter/section.
[03:34] <BiosElement> We're still working out the exact details on how to organize things of course.
[03:35] <nigel_nb> oh
[03:35] <nigel_nb> now, when I'm creating a subsection, do I still upload it the way I did?
[03:36] <BiosElement> Uploading should be exactly the same. The organization really has little to do with vcs. Just make sure you add the files and commit them before uploading.
[03:38] <nigel_nb> oh okay :)
[03:39] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: btw, do we generate the html before pushing?
[03:39] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: No. Currently I think we should keep "generated" files out of the vcs because it'd be alot of outdated duplicated content and would take longer to up/download
[03:40] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: but generate it locally and test it?
[03:41] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: That's usually a good idea and that should be enforced for any main repositorys but for your personal one, it's up to you.
[03:41] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: :) thanks... lemme get to work then
[03:41] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: Let me know if you have any other problems ^_^
[03:41] <nigel_nb> sure..
[03:41] <nigel_nb> till what time are you up?
[03:43] <BiosElement> Probably another hour or so.
[03:43] <nigel_nb> oh ok
[03:44] <nigel_nb> i'm going to work on setting-up-internet and this bzr guide on the same branch.. thats okay?
[03:44] <BiosElement> That's fine. ^_^
[03:44] <nigel_nb> great then
[04:04] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: for windows and mac, is there a gui for bazaar?
[04:06] <BiosElement> nigel_nb: IIRC yes. Not tried it on windows or mac but bazaar explorer should work. http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/
[04:07] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: when I write that page then I'll have to consider other OS and distributions of linux
[04:07] <nigel_nb> :(
[04:07] <nigel_nb> which expands it rapidly
[04:08] <BiosElement> I'd just focus on ubuntu gnome for now and go from there later. ubuntu is the target audiance and I'd imagine most of the people contributing to the "Ubuntu" community learning project would be intrested in ubuntu >.<
[04:08] <nigel_nb> hehe..true
[04:08] <nigel_nb> I'll just title it differently
[04:10] <BiosElement> Start with the basics, expand it later. It's easy to expand, not so easy to start. >.<
[04:11] <nigel_nb> BiosElement: I agree completely
[04:11] <nigel_nb> :D
[04:20] <doctormo> Hey BiosElement, I'mback
[04:20] <BiosElement> Great doctormo
[04:20] <nigel_nb> hey doctormo
[04:21] <nigel_nb> doctormo: I got oriented to bzr and gonna create a guide for that
[04:32] <BiosElement> I'm off to sleep now.
[04:35] <nigel_nb> night BiosElement
[04:37] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: My IRC reset, can you tell me if you responded to my last message?
[04:38] <nigel_nb> doctormo: I got oriented to bzr and gonna create a guide for that
[04:39] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: Oh you didn't see my messages
[04:39] <doctormo_> > nigel_nb: I set aside about an hour to go through things with BiosElement, do you want to go through the writing with me or are you happy with doing it all?
[04:39] <nigel_nb> nope
[04:40] <nigel_nb> I was thinking of writing it and then mailing the list
[04:40] <nigel_nb> but since you're here, I'd love to work with you
[04:40] <doctormo_> OK
[04:41] <doctormo_> So you've got a log of everything that's been said?
[04:41] <nigel_nb> yes
[04:41] <nigel_nb> I got to the point where I finished setting up SSH
[04:41] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: The best thing to do first (if you've not done it) is to create the teachers file, which lists all the requirements and most importantly a bullet point of topics.
[04:41] <doctormo_> These topics go on to form the titles of each section you want to cover in the class.
[04:43] <nigel_nb> do u have a standard file that I could use as template?
[04:43] <nigel_nb> perhaps something from your sys-admin courses?
[04:44] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: Yes, so we'll use that as a base, do you have lp:ubuntu-learning-materials checked out?
[04:44] <nigel_nb> no
[04:44] <nigel_nb> how do I do a checkout?
[04:49] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: It's what you were taught before wasn't it?
[04:50] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: `bzr branch lp:ubuntu-learning-materials`
[04:50] <nigel_nb> doctormo_: we didn't go to checkout, but I figured it out
[04:50] <nigel_nb> I have it now
[04:50] <doctormo_> nigel_nb: Ah sorry, my terminology doesn't match what I expected you to do.
[04:50] <doctormo_> My fault.
[04:51] <nigel_nb> no prob :), i'm getting to know the terminology
[04:51] <nigel_nb> doctormo: i've checked out ubuntu-learning-materials and its on my system
[04:52] <doctormo> ok, now comes the fun part
[04:52] <doctormo> nigel_nb: How long can you be online for
[04:52] <nigel_nb> doctormo: another 2 hours
[04:53] <nigel_nb> doctormo: probably 3 if absolutely necessary after a brk
[04:53] <doctormo> nigel_nb: ok, lets do thign thing
[04:54] <nigel_nb> doctormo: lets do it!! :)
[04:54] <doctormo> what editor are you using? VI?
[04:54] <nigel_nb> i have gedit and vi
[04:54] <nigel_nb> can use both
[04:57] <doctormo> cool , so I'm just commiting some mods, I want to make sure you get them
[04:57] <doctormo> tell me the name of one of the new files.
[04:58] <doctormo> Ah damn, one second, messed it up
[04:59] <doctormo> ok pushed up revision 5
[04:59] <nigel_nb> doctormo: how do I update my local version?
[04:59] <doctormo> nigel_nb: while in the directory use `bzr pull`
[05:01] <nigel_nb> +N  licence.README
[05:01] <nigel_nb> +N  maintain/commandline-basics/authors
[05:01] <nigel_nb> +N  maintain/computer-hardware/authors
[05:01] <nigel_nb>  M  images.README
[05:01] <nigel_nb>  M  maintain/icon.svg
[05:01] <nigel_nb>  M  maintain/title.svg
[05:01] <nigel_nb>  M  resources.README
[05:01] <nigel_nb> okay.. now I'm getting the hang of it
[05:03] <doctormo> OK lol
[05:03] <doctormo> one would have been good
[05:04] <nigel_nb> oops...didnt read that part lol
[05:04] <doctormo> So we both have the same files
[05:04] <nigel_nb> yes
[05:05] <doctormo> you new thing I think should go in teaching (since it's a part of the internal project teaching to teach, teaching to create materials etc)
[05:05] <doctormo> so cd into that
[05:05] <nigel_nb> in teaching nw
[05:05] <doctormo> and use mkdir to create a new directory for your class, give it a good name like 'bazaar-introduction'
[05:05] <nigel_nb> done
[05:06] <doctormo> now, copy in all the files from trunk2/maintain/commandline-basics/* into your new directory.
[05:08] <nigel_nb> done
[05:08] <doctormo> run a `bzr status` to confirm that you have new files
[05:08] <doctormo> Or it shoudl say 'unrecognised' your new directory
[05:08] <nigel_nb> it says unknwon
[05:09] <nigel_nb> unknown: teaching/bazaar-introduction/
[05:10] <doctormo> good
[05:11] <doctormo> now I want you to edit the authors file you just copied over in your new class, make sure it says your name and email instead of mine.
[05:11] <nigel_nb> ok
[05:11] <nigel_nb> done
[05:12] <doctormo> OK so the first job is to fill out the lesson-plan.txt
[05:14] <nigel_nb> class sections would be... installation, configuration, creating lessons..
[05:14] <nigel_nb> is that right?
[05:14] <nigel_nb> or just installation and configuration?
[05:16] <doctormo> slight confused
[05:16] <nigel_nb> oh sorry
[05:17] <nigel_nb> for learning about bazaar.. what would the sections be
[05:17] <doctormo> Under List of Sections, you want to list out each of the titles in your class. Imagine that your teaching the class, you will flow from one thing to another to explain everythign and teach it.
[05:17] <nigel_nb> okay
[05:17] <doctormo> So the first thing maybe to introduce bzr, what it's for.
[05:17] <doctormo> Introduction
[05:17] <doctormo> you would title it
[05:18] <nigel_nb> yes
[05:18] <doctormo> Next you might move onto getting a branch out of launchpad using `bzr branch`, and the title would be 'Getting Files from Bazaar'
[05:19] <doctormo> The introduction would probably introduce the user to the bzr command in the practical.
[05:19] <nigel_nb> thts under demonstration?
[05:19] <doctormo> It will be when we get to it
[05:20] <doctormo> First the list of sections, then the requirements, then the demo file pointers.
[05:21] <nigel_nb> okay
[05:21] <nigel_nb> its a bit overwhelming initially
[05:22] <doctormo> sorry nigel_nb, we don't yet have the "how to write" part wirtten yet, ironically.
[05:23] <nigel_nb> hehe... but then you'd have to do this for every new person or train 5 people and get them to change everything to this format
[05:23] <doctormo> Well to be honest, I'm writing tools to make this easier.
[05:23] <nigel_nb> doctormo: oh great
[05:23] <nigel_nb> so the requirements would be command-line basics
[05:24] <doctormo> nigel_nb: yes, that would be a good start, also an ubuntu computer for each student for classroom and packages people should have installed.
[05:25] <nigel_nb> but we are dealing with installation aren't we
[05:25] <doctormo> Basically your adventuring and what you get stuck with will be helping us fix the process.
[05:25] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Well this part is somethign the teacher will read to prepare for the class, they'll do the installs.
[05:26] <nigel_nb> so when students come in, they have it installed already?
[05:28] <doctormo> yes
[05:28] <doctormo> so you say you require the bazaar package and anythign else that's not in the default install of ubuntu.
[05:28] <nigel_nb> so, requirements are "command line basics"
[05:29] <nigel_nb> wait.. whats difference between classroom basics and student basics?
[05:29] <doctormo> nigel_nb: You'll see two topics, student and classroom requirements, commandline basics is a student requirement.
[05:29] <nigel_nb> yea, I just realized
[05:29] <doctormo> nigel_nb: computer per student, bazaar installed etc are classroom requirements.
[05:29] <doctormo> maybe I could make that clearer... hmm.
[05:30] <nigel_nb> from requirements to pre-requisites?
[05:31] <nigel_nb> student will "need" to "need to know"
[05:31] <doctormo> ok
[05:32] <nigel_nb> ok. done
[05:32] <nigel_nb> oh wait
[05:32] <nigel_nb> not finished class sections yet
[05:33] <nigel_nb> updating a branch? for adding a new content
[05:34] <doctormo> nigel_nb: first you'll need a section that explains how pushing branches work, ownership of branches, and why they can't push to the one they pulled from.
[05:34] <doctormo> But updating a branch should probably go before that
[05:35] <nigel_nb> I think we'll have understanding Bazaar
[05:35] <nigel_nb> and then Updating a Branch
[05:35] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Should Getting a branch be before updating a branch?
[05:36] <nigel_nb> yes
[05:36] <nigel_nb> it is
[05:36] <nigel_nb> 2 getting, 3 understanding 4 updating
[05:36] <nigel_nb> but I'm inclined to put understanding 2 and then the rest
[05:37] <nigel_nb> first explain the concept of bazaar and how it works
[05:37] <nigel_nb> and then move towards "getting it", "working on it", and "updating it"
[05:40] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Aye, I expected that would be a better way to do it.
[05:40] <nigel_nb> doctormo: :)
[05:41] <nigel_nb> * Installation* Understanding Bazaar* Getting a Branch* Working on a Branch* Updating a Branch* Adding a Branch
[05:41] <doctormo> nigel_nb: explain, getting, updating, working with lp, ssh keys, pushing a new branch, repushing your branch
[05:41] <doctormo> You don't need to cover installation, I don't think.
[05:41] <nigel_nb> oaky
[05:42] <doctormo> wait stick commiting between updating and working with lp
[05:42] <doctormo> and then make sure to mention that you can work locally when you use the bzr branch command.
[05:42] <nigel_nb> done
[05:42] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Is this process makign sense to you?
[05:42] <nigel_nb> yes
[05:42] <nigel_nb> very much
[05:43] <nigel_nb> SSH keys come into play here?
[05:43] <nigel_nb> in that case it should be before working with launchpad rite
[05:45] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Well with launchpad your introducing the idea that branches are online as well as offline, viewing them etc
[05:45] <doctormo> nigel_nb: We should have a second section after keys that explains launchpad+keys perhaps, that's up to you.
[05:46] <nigel_nb> doctormo: probaly we need Introduction to Launchpad and then working with launchpad
[05:46] <doctormo> nigel_nb: possibly.
[05:47] <nigel_nb> doctormo: okay, done
[05:47] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Now with your topics written down (which may change as you write it) you can start thinking about each of the sections.
[05:48] <doctormo> nigel_nb: each of those items should have a corisponding item under demonstration details, except change seconds to sections.
[05:48] <doctormo> numbered of course.
[05:49] <nigel_nb> doctormo: have to copy paste and make as many of them as the number of topics..which change from "seconds" to "sections" .  done
[05:50] <doctormo> great, now, exit what ever editor your using
[05:50] <doctormo> and see the directory marked sections
[05:50] <nigel_nb> yes
[05:51] <doctormo> nigel_nb: First think I recommend filling out introduction.txt, it explains what it's for int he file.
[05:51] <doctormo> nigel_nb: After that, your creating a directory per section you make in the lesson_plan file, numbered as you did for the demontration includes.
[05:52] <nigel_nb> okay
[05:53] <doctormo> As I said, scripts will make this easier I hope :-D
[05:53] <doctormo> And this will show me where they should focus.
[05:53] <nigel_nb> doctormo: hehe.. so I'm the guinea pig lol
[05:53] <doctormo> nigel_nb: someone had to do it ;-)
[05:54] <nigel_nb> doctormo: hehe... happy to help.. plus i got to learn something new
[05:54] <doctormo> My melatonin is starting to kick in, so I'll try and fit as much as I can into the next few mins so you can use your hour you have left to do some more and commit and push for tomorrow.
[05:55] <doctormo> So each of those section directories contain a couple of files, the demonstration.txt files are instructions for teachers about how to do the demonstration for each of the sections.
[05:56] <doctormo> The overview.txt is the file that contains the theory description, what your doing, why your doing it, any of the mechanical descriptions of how things work (and any diagrams that show it in action)
[05:57] <doctormo> the practical.txt contains the instructions for the student, such as "run this command to get this result", "now run this command to get this other result" etc, it shouldn't contain too much explaination.
[05:58] <doctormo> If you find yourself hurting between your overview and your practical, then it might be because you have two sections in one and they need to be split out.
[05:58] <nigel_nb> doctormo: okay
[05:58] <doctormo> Think abut it as alternating between "explain", "teacher demonstration" and then "student practical"
[05:58] <nigel_nb> doctormo: some sections will not have a practical rite?
[05:58] <doctormo> nigel_nb: All sections should aim to have all three, there is always something to do.
[05:58] <nigel_nb> doctormo: okay, I'll work on it
[05:59] <doctormo> nigel_nb: and don't worry if it sounds dumb, like "visit launchpad.com"
[05:59] <nigel_nb> doctormo: :)
[05:59] <doctormo> practicals are dumb instructions, like howtos.
[05:59] <nigel_nb> okay :)
[06:00] <nigel_nb> how do I commit this and push it
[06:00] <doctormo> OK so the last thing you need to know, once you've crafted each of the sections, you'll want to update the overview.txt practical.txt and class.txt in the root, these basically just have includes for each of the sections.
[06:00] <doctormo> "in the root of your class directory"
[06:01] <doctormo> to commit it, you just go `bzr add [thing-to-add]` so you can add the directory and all the child parts will go in too.
[06:01] <nigel_nb> ok
[06:01] <doctormo> and then your normal `bzr commit`, you can use `bzr status` before your commit to make sure everything is going in.
[06:01] <nigel_nb> doctormo: okay
[06:02] <doctormo> then push it to your own branch once done.
[06:02] <nigel_nb> just the class that I have done right?
[06:02] <doctormo> `bzr push lp:~[username]/ubuntu-learning-materials/[new-branch-name]`
[06:03] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Yes, you should see that class and all it's files added, commited and then pushed.
[06:03] <doctormo> It's up to you if you edit any other files.
[06:03] <nigel_nb> can i see a asciidoc converted version before pushing?
[06:04] <doctormo> don't forget that your status, push and commits effect the entire branch, not just the directory your currently in.
[06:04] <nigel_nb> ok
[06:04] <doctormo> nigel_nb: You can, I think it's best to ask Bioselemnt about that, I think it outputs docbook and then outputs pdf and html.
[06:04] <nigel_nb> okay... I'll get to work on this..
[06:07] <doctormo> nigel_nb: thanks so much for working with me on it, the first class is always the slowest.
[06:07] <doctormo> And you've been a big help already.
[06:07] <nigel_nb> can i take a week?
[06:08] <nigel_nb> doctormo: no particular time limit, is there?
[06:08] <doctormo> nigel_nb: Can you be around each day or so and commit regular?
[06:08] <nigel_nb> yes
[06:08] <nigel_nb> I
[06:08] <doctormo> "and push"
[06:08] <doctormo> lol
[06:08] <nigel_nb> I'll be here around the time that I as her today
[06:08] <nigel_nb> hehe
[06:08] <doctormo> Only this is one of those kickstart classes that does need to be done ASAP.
[06:09] <doctormo> So a week is a good time, don't forget to ask if there are issues or unsures.
[06:09] <nigel_nb> I'm close to having a headache so im thinkin of some rest... 2morrow I should be able to finish it
[06:09] <nigel_nb> and put it up for review
[06:10] <doctormo> nigel_nb: wonderful, hope I haven't caused the headache :-)
[06:10] <nigel_nb> naah...work
[06:10] <nigel_nb> I work nights
[06:11] <nigel_nb> its close to afternoon now.. need to catch some sleep
[06:11] <doctormo> ok, np, me too, you in some forien place?
[06:11] <nigel_nb> I'm in India
[06:11] <nigel_nb> and where are you?
[06:12] <doctormo> Boston USA, but I'm british.
[06:12] <doctormo> Which part of India?
[06:12] <nigel_nb> pretty famous from US standpoint
[06:12] <nigel_nb> Bangalore
[06:13] <doctormo> Interesting, I was up in Vermont being a good Petyapa to my Tamil nefews. (can't spell sorry)
[06:13] <nigel_nb> :)
[06:14] <doctormo> Either way, Shukriyah nigel_nb
[06:14] <nigel_nb> doctormo: wow....
[06:14] <doctormo> And good night.
[06:15] <nigel_nb> doctormo: good night and sweet dreams to you too :)
[09:51] <weecol> hi
[13:20] <ZachK_> any admins or team leaders around?
[13:21] <pleia2> yes
[13:22] <ZachK_> oh heya pleia2 or may i call you elizabeth?
[13:22] <pleia2> elizabeth isn't in my hilight ;) so pleia2 or lyz is best
[13:22] <ZachK_> roger roger
[13:22] <ZachK_> well how are ya?
[13:23] <pleia2> fine, at work
[13:23] <pleia2> something I can help you with?
[13:23] <ZachK_> oh nothing...just looking to help out
[13:23] <ZachK_> if possible anyway
[13:24] <pleia2> oh, you don't need an admin for that :) didn't vantrax already add you to the team in LP?
[13:24] <ZachK_> link...
[13:25] <pleia2> yes, you're already a part of the team
[13:25] <ZachK_> oh ok
[13:25] <ZachK_> well any projects
[13:25] <pleia2> what areas were of interest to you? (sorry, I seem to have missed your intro)
[13:26] <pleia2> review, gathering resources, course development, teaching, moodle?
[13:26] <ZachK_> well what needs to be done? i'm strong with wiki work...(As if you don't know that =)
[13:27] <pleia2> the wiki work on this project is pretty much confined to writing our course outlines on the wiki, we're leveraging existing wiki and other documentation for the core material itself
[13:27] <ZachK_> ok
[13:28]  * ZachK_ jams to beat
[13:28] <pleia2> if you're interested, I just did an ubuntu open week presentation on the project yesterday, which will probably answer all your questions so far: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/Learning
[13:29] <pleia2> I'm currently in the process of putting together a "joining the team quickstart" but I haven't finished yet, and have work now :\
[13:30] <ZachK_> k
[13:36] <ZachK_> heya paultag
[13:37] <paultag> lo
[13:52] <mhall119|work> pleia2: we ran into an issue last night with bzr 2.0 in 9.10 using a different repostory format than what is currently used by ununtu-learning-material
[13:52] <mhall119|work> did you see that?
[14:00] <pleia2> mhall119|work: eep, no
[14:01] <mhall119|work> pleia2: yeah, someone figured out the way around it though
[14:01] <mhall119|work> if you have bzr 2.0, and you're starting from scratch, you have to bzr init with the 1.9 format
[14:02] <pleia2> interesting
[14:02] <mhall119|work> thought it might be good to include in the quickstart guide
[14:02] <mhall119|work> with so many people using 9.10 with bzr 2.0 now
[14:02]  * pleia2 nods
[14:02] <pleia2> thanks :)
[14:02] <mhall119|work> sure
[14:03] <pleia2> I'll touch base with BiosElement and doctormo later today, I think they were planning on taking the logs from last night and using them to whip together a quick guide
[14:04] <mhall119|work> ok
[14:04] <mhall119|work> BiosElement was there we we ran into this problem, so he will know what I'm talking about
[14:04] <pleia2> ok, great
[16:14] <pleia2> ooh http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/explorer/en/
[16:15] <pleia2> there is a ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr-explorer-dev/+archive/ppa
[18:24] <mhall119|work> pleia2: I couldn't get it to dowk
[18:24] <mhall119|work> work
[18:24] <mhall119|work> the bzr explorer
[18:24] <mhall119|work> it could never find qbzr
[18:25] <wrst> mhall119|work: you had better act straight i see the boss is looking over your shoulder
[18:25] <pleia2> aw darn
[18:27] <mhall119|work> wrst: he's always looking over my shoulder
[18:27] <mhall119|work> maybe he'll learn something while #ubuntu-classroom is up
[18:28] <wrst> oh no not that boss... i'm talking about Michelle_Qimo i'm assuming that's mrs mhall119|work
[18:28] <mhall119|work> also, I just worked straight through Jono's session, which I wanted to catch
[18:28] <mhall119|work> wrst: oh, lol
[18:28] <mhall119|work> she knows I lurk in IRC all day
[18:28] <wrst> ha ha :)
[18:28] <mhall119|work> that's usually how she talks to me while I'm at work
[18:28] <mhall119|work> she's in #ubuntu-us-fl most of the time
[18:29] <wrst> my wife isn't that cool i have to stay on gtalk for her :)
[18:29] <mhall119|work> I can't run IM clients on my work computer
[18:29] <wrst> ahh well i use finch adn screen at work i can run the clients but my machine is a little old so i need all the power i can muster
[18:29] <mhall119|work> I have irssi and screen
[18:30] <mhall119|work> finch was going to pull in all kinds of gstreamer stuff I didn't want
[18:30] <wrst> i thought you probably had to have i thought you were onlnie all the time mhall119|work
[18:30] <wrst> mhall119|work: yeah i couldn't figure that out why it needed allof that i just blindedly said yes to it all
[18:30] <mhall119|work> irssi runs on my webserver 24/7 for this nick
[18:30] <mhall119|work> I just ssh into it while at work
[18:30] <wrst> same here
[18:31] <wrst> well actually on my home server
[18:38] <doctormo> Morning mhall119|work
[18:53] <mhall119|work> morning doctormo
[18:53] <mhall119|work> (2pm here)
[19:29] <Michelle_Qimo> hhm, what am I doing now?
[19:31] <mhall119|work> wrst thought you were going to catch me on IRC
[19:32] <wrst> ha ha you have been caught it looks like
[20:17] <mathry1029> hello any one alive in here?
[20:21] <mhall119|work> me
[20:23] <mathry1029> i have so many questions lol umm first off i guess i want to get my bcm4318 working .... and im an utter noob reading forums
[20:23] <mhall119|work> okay
[20:24] <mhall119|work> this isn't really a support channel, ubuntu-learning is a project to write instructional material to help people teaching others how to use Ubuntu
[20:25] <mathry1029> heh well in that endevour im the perfect labrat...
[20:25] <mathry1029> still hunting forums thanks tho
[20:26] <mhall119|work> the #ubuntu channel is the official support channel
[20:26] <mhall119|work> it's manned by community volunteers, and is usually very helpful
[20:28] <mathry1029> umm i just tried /join #unbuntu and it went to empty space
[20:28] <mathry1029> oops forgot i need to reg my nicj
[20:28] <mhall119|work>  /join #ubuntu
[20:29] <mhall119|work> you had one too many 'n's
[20:33] <mathry1029> ty btw for the correction
[20:35] <mhall119|work> no problem
[22:05] <doctormo> pleia2: Wow that's a lot of channels you got open.
[22:05] <pleia2> doctormo: yeah, I have a problem :)
[22:07] <doctormo> pleia2: Is there an archive log of your OW session?
[22:07] <doctormo> I'm posting a blog entry to raise some more attention.
[22:07] <pleia2> doctormo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekKarmic/Learning
[22:08] <doctormo> thanks!
[22:08] <pleia2> sure thing, thanks for blogging about it :)
[22:11] <doctormo> pleia2: It's the least I could do after you put in all that work.
[22:11] <pleia2> doctormo: are you and BiosElement going to be tossing together some notes related to last night's bzr session?
[22:12] <pleia2> I'd like to blog too, but I want to have a "quickstart to getting involved" page on the wiki first, including that
[22:12] <BiosElement> pleia2: I'm already going to be working on the notes later tonight.
[22:12] <pleia2> BiosElement: you're my hero! :)
[22:12] <doctormo> pleia2: hopefully nigel_nb will write a course on it, but I'm going to write the clif notes in my blog now, so people can get in to it quickly.
[22:12] <pleia2> excellent
[22:12] <doctormo> BiosElement: Did you know nigel_nb was going to digest your bzr stuff into a class?
[22:13] <BiosElement> doctormo: I knew he was working on something. Wasn't entirely sure what but it's fine with me.
[22:13] <doctormo> BiosElement: What I really could do with is some help with a few helper scripts, are you python ready?
[22:13] <pleia2> if we could have a rough draft by tomorrow it'd be really nice
[22:14] <pleia2> so we don't lose this momentum with new contributors
[22:14] <BiosElement> doctormo: Possibly. I can check and get back with ya.  I'll touch base with him later if I need to
[22:15] <BiosElement> pleia2: That's what I was thinking. I'll  have to work with nigel_nb to figureout what the problem with bazaar 2.0's  format is too. Still not sure what the status is with that.
[22:16]  * pleia2 nods
[22:16] <pleia2> mhall119 was mentioning that issue earlier, keen to make sure that issue was mentioned in the how-to
[22:17] <BiosElement> pleia2: I'm more keen to find out why the heck launchpad doesn't support it because it sounds like a pretty widespread major bug to me >.<
[22:18] <pleia2> well yes, there is that :)
[22:18] <doctormo> pleia2: He gave me a week, but I'll be pushing for him to have updates each day.
[22:20] <pleia2> ok, great
[22:21]  * pleia2 skips out to LUG meeting
[22:21] <pleia2> later all
[22:21] <doctormo> bye pleia2
[22:46] <doctormo> http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/uow-the-ubuntu-learning-project/
[22:47] <mhall119|work> BiosElement: I think the problem is that launchpad is making a stacked branch


[00:21] <bazhang> on himself
[00:23] <jrib> how nice
[01:25] <bazhang> salman is back at it
[06:39] <bkerensa> #ubuntu-offtopic
[06:49] <Tm_T> bkerensa: as you prolly have more insight what's been happening there, feel free to act there, you know, catalyst (:
[06:49] <bkerensa> kk
[07:49] <DJones> Watching
[07:56] <Myrtti> sorry if I barged in
[07:57] <DJones> No probs, I was about to do the same
[07:57] <bkerensa> good night folks
[07:57] <DJones> Goodnight
[08:32] <chu> So, ubottu has asked me to review the ban on user /28
[08:32] <chu> Whoops
[08:33] <chu> So, ubottu has asked me to review the ban on user `lechoked' - looking through the bt right now, I see that he was initially forwarded to #ubuntu-ops and from then he did not cooperate at all. I don't know if I should leave the ban in place or remove it. Any input?
[08:44] <topyli> chu: i would leave the ban in place, and if the user is online i'd nudge them to join -ops again and try to fix it
[08:45] <chu> Mmm, unfortunately the nick was not registered.
[08:45] <topyli> if the ban is very old, it might be worth considering to just remove it. they can be banned again if there's further trouble
[08:46] <topyli> someone who's been banned for several months might simply be gone by now
[08:48] <chu> Well, it's a week old, and he had no interest in reasoning about it - I gave him the guidelines link, but he just said "read it" straight away as if he didn't care
[08:49] <topyli> i'd consider the ban "active" if it isn't older than that. they can come here and resolve it if they're interested
[08:49] <topyli> so my advice is "do nothing" :)
[08:50] <chu> Well, initially I put the forward to #ubuntu-ops (although, if I recall IdleOne said it was unnecessary, but I wanted to give him a chance) and since we didn't resolve anything, I removed the forward but left the ban.
[08:50] <chu> Yep, thanks for your input topyli :)
[08:51] <chu> So, should I just recomment to ubottu about my decision, or reiterate the problem?
[08:51] <topyli> yes that's good work. the forward is unnecessary now since they know about this channel already
[08:55] <chu> Oh, I'm silly, there is no need for a recomment :)
[08:56] <topyli> no harm either :)
[09:48] <Tm_T> comments are always good
[09:49] <DJones> I've just tested, no on-join spam for me
[09:50] <Tm_T> usually ops and staff (when identified) are not infected
[09:50] <Tm_T> my cycle didn't get anything
[09:52] <DJones> I wasn't identified, used xchat & a none registered nick
[09:53] <LjL> vakaris is in very many channels and unidentified, that's an alarm bell but as long as we don't get a second report, i guess...
[09:55] <tomaw> LjL: any spam from it on your attempt?
[09:55] <LjL> no
[09:55] <tomaw> same here
[09:55] <Tm_T> looks clean to me
[17:33] <theadmin> (the current factoid info is pretty outdated, so there)
[17:35] <IdleOne> looks good
[17:35] <IdleOne> !no autostart is <reply> If you want to edit your Autostart programs, open the Unity dash and search for Startup Programs. If you're on XFCE, use menu -> Settings -> Settings Manager -> Session and Startup, if you're on KDE, use Kickoff -> Computer -> System Settings -> Autostart. For more details see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AddingProgramToSessionStartup
[17:35] <IdleOne> thanks theadmin
[17:36] <theadmin> IdleOne: No problem. I also have no idea how to do that for LXDE (edit ~/.config/openbox/autostart or something?)
[17:38] <theadmin> Anyway, thanks %)
[17:41] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Guides#How_I_can_autostart_a_program_when_logging_into_Desktop
[18:13] <IdleOne> !no autostart is <reply> If you want to edit your Autostart programs, open the Unity dash and search for Startup Programs. If you're on XFCE, use menu -> Settings -> Settings Manager -> Session and Startup, if you're on KDE, use Kickoff -> Computer -> System Settings -> Autostart. For more details see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AddingProgramToSessionStartup. For LXDE see http://ubottu.com/y/4
[18:13] <IdleOne> Unit193: That Good?
[18:15] <Unit193> Yeah, that's mostly for Lubuntu rather than LXDE, but generally Lubuntu users are the ones asking anyway.
[22:13] <TheLordOfTime> is the ops team pretty much dead?
[22:13] <TheLordOfTime> its as if #ubuntu isnt being watched.
[22:14] <genii-around> TheLordOfTime: I just gave Salman a warn
[22:14] <TheLordOfTime> cool, just making sure there's someone monitoring the channel.
[22:15] <TheLordOfTime> (that, and he's been reported to be spamming in other channels with messages as well, according to #freenode )
[22:15] <TheLordOfTime> and again, apparently the evil is rising from him.
[22:21] <Salman> How to bankic
[22:21] <Salman> K
[22:22] <Salman> ?
[22:22] <iceroot> hi
[22:22] <iceroot> would be great if someone could kick Salman in #ubuntu, thx
[22:29] <beandog> guys, can we get rid of a troll
[22:30] <beandog> ujoqaj Dr_Willis: then you probably werent capable of helping anyway
[22:30] <beandog> ujoqaj i mean, its going to require an attention span, what else can i tell you
[22:30] <beandog> won't check forums, anything else, anytime we try to help he throws it in our face
[22:30] <beandog> he's being a dork
[22:30] <beandog> he's not even doing basics to help himself out, and bugging not just me.
[22:33] <Salman> Help me
[22:33] <Salman> Ubuntu unbanned help me
[22:37] <IdleOne> ujoqaj, banned
[22:40] <iceroot> thanks
[22:40] <IdleOne> beandog: How can I help you?
[22:41] <beandog> IdleOne: nothing, Im good
[22:41] <beandog> thx
[22:51] <genii-around> Rebooting, back in a bit.
[22:52]  * IdleOne counts the bits


[00:03] <doctormo> How are people today? good?
[00:07] <pleia2> good good, you?
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> not bad
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> I am working on an outline for a course for new users
[00:09] <bodhi_zazen> re: installing Ubuntu
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> a few links and general info re wubi, desktop, alternate CD
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> root, installing stuff
[00:10] <bodhi_zazen> linky to wiki to fill in details
[00:36] <doctormo> pleia2: thanks for the great comment
[00:37] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: Did you see any of the notes I posted to BiosElement yesterday?
[00:37] <pleia2> doctormo: sure thing, I'm afraid that argument is raised often within debian
[00:37] <pleia2> I still contribute to debian, but ugh, I don't interact with the community much for fear of being yelled at
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> no doctormo
[00:37] <bodhi_zazen> where ?
[00:42] <doctormo> pleia2: The problem with some computer people is that they think that everyone should conform to the same inhuman human interactions. Rudeness isn't considered a problem because it excuses one's own rudeness.
[00:42] <pleia2> doctormo: yeah, I think that's certainly part of the problem
[00:42] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: I may point you to the logs, or to BiosElement, depending on where he's at with processing all those notes. Basically I laid out how I'm making courses, step by step and development
[00:43] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: We were talking about splitting the process, so development is done via bzr and publication is done by moodle via an opinioned or elected chief editor.
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> nice
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> you should consider putting that info on a wiki page
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> =)
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> easier to contribute to, easier to edit, and easier to read then irc logs
[00:44] <doctormo> bodhi_zazen: It's going to be a course, just like all the others :-D
[00:44] <bodhi_zazen> I am sure the process will be a FAQ
[00:44] <doctormo> That was why I noted it all down to BiosElement
[00:45] <bodhi_zazen> who or what is BiosElement ?
[00:45] <doctormo> A user in this irc channel
[00:45]  * doctormo points to users list
[00:45] <doctormo> He's a new person, enthusastic to be writing some core "how to teach" classes.
[00:46] <doctormo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning/TeachingTopics <- this is the topics page. I figured that we can make development and contributation easier by treating it like a class.
[00:48] <bodhi_zazen> I will have to look at that later => dinner time
[04:54] <sagaci> Straight into the Ubuntu Desktop topics, one of the first ideas in the contents is "Introduction to the Command Line"... is this necessary in the Desktop/Beginner course, and even if it is, would it be better introducing it later (toward the end of the table of contents)?
[05:03] <bodhi_zazen> I think a basic introduction is necessary yes
[05:04] <bodhi_zazen> this might be as simple as how to open a terminal and an explanation of what bash is
[05:04] <bodhi_zazen> Perhaps how to get help / man pages
[05:05] <bodhi_zazen> I am not sure avoiding the command line is such a good idea
[05:05] <bodhi_zazen> but I do not think we need to go into detailed shell scripting =)
[05:08] <sagaci> yeah, maybe we have different ideas of what desktop means but I think we should be avoiding the cli in this course, or at least until the basis of the GUI apps have been demonstrated.
[05:37] <bodhi_zazen> Opening a terminal is a gui and is a faq on the forums
[05:38] <bodhi_zazen> I do not think the cli is to be avoided at all costs and in my experience it is best to show / teach both a gui and cli solution to an issue or problem
[05:38] <bodhi_zazen> that way the cli is not hidden or make separate
[05:41] <bodhi_zazen> The way you suggest, avoiding the cli at all costs, and then trying to teach the cli in some kind o mega session has not worked so well for me
[05:41] <bodhi_zazen> You kind of need something to do with the cli
[05:41] <bodhi_zazen> so it is better to include a little information on the cli in every session
[05:42] <bodhi_zazen> IMO
[05:50] <qq88888> 大家好
[06:12] <sagaci> well i guess people who think cli will slow them down / unnecessary can just skip it temporarily
[07:57] <doctormo> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-learning-materials
[12:48] <pleia2> doctormo: bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp-45207824:///~doctormo/ubuntu-learning-materials/trunk/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport
[12:49] <pleia2> when I try to commit, now it is possible I'm doing something wrong since I am a bit of a bzr newbie :)
[12:50] <pleia2> anyway, I'm off for the weekend
[12:50]  * pleia2 roadtrip
[16:40] <doctormo> pleia2: lol, just giving that a quick go before the weekend :-)
[16:47] <albasheers> hello everyone
[17:27] <doctormo> hey albasheers


[17:10] <oerheks> yay This bug is no longer a blocker now that it's fixed in focal ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1891680
[17:10] <oerheks> 34 nmin ago
[22:28] <gimzmoe> I'm trying to update NVIDIA drivers on Ubuntu 18.04 to nvidia-driver-450, but it's not availble, I tried the run script from NVIDIA but I seem to be missing a part
[22:28] <gimzmoe> I've got NVIDIA GTX 1050 Notebook card
[22:29] <oerheks> i think you need to install HWE for that?
[22:29] <oerheks> !hwe
[22:29] <oerheks> err, ask again in #ubuntu
[22:51] <daftykins> :)
[22:52] <daftykins> running kernel version would definitely factor in


[00:15] <rohan> how do i verify that kubuntu 14.04 is actually trimming my SSD periodically?
[00:28] <habanany> Vnc  bynary or gz ?
[13:16] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[22:24] <longviewbits> In terms of stability first, and maintainability second... if using something outside the repos is what you're going to do, is a PPA better, or is doing build-dep for $PACKAGE and building it from source better?
[22:27] <k1l> from source you cant get automatic updates. which you get if there is a new package t the PPA
[23:09] <penguin42> longviewbits: I think that just comes down to where you're going to get the source from - if you're going to get the source from the PPA I'm not sure there is much in it; although I've seen PPAs that aren't rebuilt for new distro versions