[00:01] <Wild_Man> Should this "around 19 March" be around the 19th of March"? I do not know how other Countries view this
[00:02] <krytarik> I think it should be either that or "March 19" - looks a bit weird that way.
[00:02] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: that "around 19 March" was the phrasing of the author and I left it as such.
[00:03] <Wild_Man> Okay, then that is good
[00:03] <Bashing-om> guiverc: How about the article as Joey remarks, in comparison to older release designs, "I am a fan of this logo" ?
[00:03] <krytarik> Doesn't mean it's correct though and we should copy it as-is. :P
[00:04] <Bashing-om> 19 March is good for my comprehnesion .
[00:04] <Wild_Man> No it is not correct in my opinion but since it is his words it stays from what I remember
[00:05] <Wild_Man> Then again that is only in the title right?
[00:05] <Wild_Man> There are no quote marks
[00:06] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: If in your opinion "the 19th of March" is clearer - then I change it .
[00:07] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, it is clearer and proper in my opinion
[00:07] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Will do :)
[00:08] <Wild_Man> krytarik, unless it is being quoted we can change it correct?
[00:09] <krytarik> It is in the summary though, yes?
[00:09] <krytarik> Rather than the title, that is.  Otherwise, no.
[00:10] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: krytarik Summary, and chnaged to read " debut around the 19th of March. ",
[00:11] <Wild_Man> Yes
[00:11] <Wild_Man> I do not see anything else
[00:11] <Wild_Man> I think it is April the 2nd that Google+ is shutting down, krytarik do we want to keep publishing there until it does?
[00:12] <Bashing-om> One stamp of approval down; 4 to go :P
[00:12] <krytarik> Wild_Man: Yeah, until the bitter end. :P
[00:12] <Wild_Man> Okay
[00:13] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Wild_Man : Note in the credits that as I am unaware of any contributions from them ... 2 are removed.
[00:14] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I noted that, I agree
[02:57] <guiverc> uwn 569:  congratulation to these (but it's singular) - Congratulations to [you] Frederik (maybe) - looking at old ones, i've been done varies ways  (Congratulations to - Freder.. ( url | url ))  [starting read thru now]
[03:02] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Ack
[03:04] <guiverc> s/i've been/its been/ -- sorry, it was copying from #489 (search examples.. didn't find a perfect match)
[03:09] <guiverc> first planet : fractional scaling support - change suggested in gdoc   (ignore it, if it's just me)
[03:12] <Bashing-om> guiverc: I have "resolved" the Gdoc commnets - remind me once more what your sugestion is.
[03:12] <guiverc> nah - it's new comments (this read-thru)
[03:14] <Bashing-om> guiverc: K - however the emphasis now is on the wiki - there are changes in the WIKI that are not on Gdoc.
[03:15] <guiverc> i realize - i'm reading the wiki, putting thoughts in gdoc
[03:17] <guiverc> suggest s/hardwares/hardware/ on kernel 5.0 first in blogo
[03:18] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Logging back in to make the edits :)
[03:19] <guiverc> (i'm still reading)
[03:30] <guiverc> suggestion libreoffice 6.2, adding ", it"
[03:31] <Bashing-om> guiverc: looking ,
[03:33] <Bashing-om> guiverc: ',' added :) Next !
[03:36] <guiverc> :)  (if you hadn't seen my at snaps just down a bit, I've made a comment, now not so sure..)
[03:39] <guiverc> i'm done now Bashing-om.
[03:39] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Keeping up .. and in this case 'the' I think is apt.
[03:42] <Bashing-om> guiverc: save and log out now ?
[03:42] <guiverc> :)   (sorry for finding many... )
[03:43] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Bo sorry about it .. polish is good :P
[03:50] <Bashing-om> saving and logging out of Gdoc and the WIKI.
[03:51] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Now see if you like the edits on the WIKI :)
[03:58] <guiverc> all looks good to me Bashing-om
[03:58] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Wonderful Ironies @ http://skellat.freeshell.org/blog/archive/2019/03/Wonderful_Ironies.html
[04:00] <Bashing-om> 2 stanps of approval only 3 to go :P
[09:13] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Daniel Pocock: What does democracy mean in free software communities? @ https://danielpocock.com/what-does-democracy-mean-in-free-software-communities
[18:53] <Bashing-om> Pulling "WIP" target time to publish 20:00 GMT.
[20:02] <Bashing-om> M/L is away .. doing the forum post next.
[20:13] <Bashing-om> Forum posted - doing the re-directs next.
[20:28] <Bashing-om> Annnddd .. re-directs done ..pending is postings to the social media :)
[21:35] <Wild_Man> I can take care o Social Media
[21:35] <Wild_Man> of even
[21:39] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Good man :)
[21:46] <guiverc> Wild_Man, do you want/need a 2nd for fridge?  (uwn569)
[21:49] <Wild_Man> Social Media is done, Not yet guiverc let me get my directions to publish on the fridge
[22:10] <Wild_Man> guiverc, working on it now, I had to help my wife a few minutes
[22:22] <Wild_Man> guiverc, you here?
[22:23] <guiverc> yep
[22:23] <Wild_Man> Did the categories window change since I did it last time? looks like it has been updated
[22:25] <Wild_Man> Instead of being on the right side of the page it opened an new window, and there is not a box to check for news only the planet
[22:25] <guiverc> the wordpress version was changed; categories hides itself once text has started; but can be found in document-categories
[22:25] <Wild_Man> Okay, looking
[22:27] <Wild_Man> Okay, I got it, I checked all links before I put a check by news and planet is that okay or do I need to do it again after checking the boxes?
[22:28] <guiverc> either - however the preview only seems to show ONE category (I just check both are ticked) - this may have caught you
[22:29] <Wild_Man> Do I have a second?
[22:32] <guiverc> yep I'm your 2nd for fridge post
[22:32] <guiverc> (sorry for delay)
[22:32] <Wild_Man> Publishing now
[22:32] <Wild_Man> No problem, I am doing many things at once too
[22:34] <Wild_Man> Done, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2019/03/11/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-569/
[22:34] <guiverc> :)
[22:35] <Wild_Man> Thanks for your help guiverc, I will be back shortly, I have to feed my cat
[22:35] <guiverc> (no probs, I'm going to walk the dog..)
[22:59] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 569 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2019/03/11/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-569/
[23:02] <Bashing-om> We have confirmation from the bots :)
[23:14] <Wild_Man> woot


[05:24] <pitti> Bonjour tout le monde, bonne nouvelle année !
[07:03] <damianatorrpm> Hi everyone :)
[07:04] <damianatorrpm> I try to compile bamf-qt (there is a Qt5 branch) with Qt5.2 on non-ubuntu Linux
[07:04] <damianatorrpm> Is it known to work with ubuntu and Qt5.2?
[07:04] <damianatorrpm> I use the Qt 5.2 RC1 from the Qt website
[07:10] <damianatorrpm> Branch owner is Florian Boucault I can't reach him via mail, do you know him? Is he in some IRC Channel? :)
[08:37] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[08:39] <didrocks> hey seb128! good morning :)
[08:39] <seb128> didrocks, lut, en forme ?
[08:39] <didrocks> ça va bien! dormi 10h ;)
[08:39] <didrocks> et toi?
[08:40] <seb128> ça va bien, dormis 7h :p
[08:40] <seb128> t'étais fatigué on dirait ;-)
[08:40] <didrocks> ouai, pas beaucoup dormi de dimanche à lundi ;) (donc dodo à 22h hier :p)
[08:45] <larsu> bonjour!
[08:45] <seb128> larsu, guten tag!
[08:45]  * larsu really should do duolingo to learn French instead of Spanish
[08:45] <seb128> you should!
[08:45] <seb128> or both ;-)
[08:46] <larsu> two languages in ONE HEAD? How is that supposed to work?!
[08:53] <seb128> larsu, you can even go up to 3, you don't need to erase german from there ;-)
[08:55] <larsu> seb128: German is easy. I can just relearn it if I happen to need it again :P
[08:56] <seb128> lol
[08:56]  * seb128 slaps larsu with trout
[08:56] <seb128> +a
[08:57] <seb128> "german is easy"
[08:57] <seb128> because what is more easy than 1 or 2 genders ... 3! :p
[08:58] <larsu> haha
[09:00] <doko> tkamppeter_, xmbc ping, do you still care about this package?
[09:03] <Laney> morning
[09:04] <seb128> Laney, good morning, how are you?
[09:04] <seb128> or Guest1882 I should say?
[09:04] <Guest1882> suits me, I think I'll keep it
[09:04]  * seb128 slaps Guest1882 with an old trout
[09:05] <Guest1882> umm I forgot how to let freenode allow me to change it back :P
[09:06] <Laney> aha
[09:06] <Laney> seb128: good thanks! I was tired after being back yesterday so napped and played games last night :(
[09:06] <Laney> so ruined
[09:06] <Laney> how are you?
[09:06] <seb128> I'm good thanks
[09:07] <seb128> I stopped early yesterday, went to play some tennis, watched some TV and had a good night of sleep ... and bonus point, it's sunny here today
[09:07] <seb128> with some 8°C, wth weather
[09:08]  * larsu has the feeling he lives in the same city as seb128. Always the same weather.
[09:08] <seb128> larsu, Germany is a small country? ;-)
[09:08] <larsu> lol
[09:08] <larsu> indeed
[09:11] <Laney> heh
[09:15] <pitti> hey seb128, larsu, and Laney -- happy new year to you!
[09:16] <pitti> did you have some good holidays?
[09:17] <Laney> oh, it's a pitti!
[09:17] <seb128> Oh, it's a pitti!
[09:17] <Laney> woah
[09:17] <Laney> wtf
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, happy new year, good to see you ;-)
[09:17] <pitti> Laney, seb128: nice coordination :)
[09:17] <seb128> pitti, wie gehts? had good holidays?
[09:17] <seb128> haha
[09:17] <pitti> yes, absolutely; a week in Dresden with family and friends, and a week in Stockholm with my wife and a friend
[09:17] <pitti> amazing city
[09:18] <seb128> nice
[09:18] <Laney> very good holidays thank you: lots of food, walking & games including getting my mum to play cards against humanity (hahaha)
[09:18] <pitti> oh those reminiscences of Abba! (I used to be a fan when I was a kid)
[09:18] <seb128> ;-)
[09:18]  * seb128 spent time with friends and family, playing some tennis and video games in between
[09:19] <seb128> good time for eoy holidays ;-)
[09:19] <larsu> pitti: happy new year!
[09:20] <larsu> I had great holidys as well. The usual: hanging out with family and eating a lot
[09:20] <seb128> Laney, lol, how did she find the cars against humanity? ;-)
[09:20] <seb128> cards
[09:21] <Laney> she didn't want to play properly so just did the card tsar bit
[09:21] <Laney> i think 1 game was enough :P
[09:21] <seb128> hehe
[09:46] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, i just got an FF update on precise ... afterwards FF refused to start
[09:46] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, i had to remove firefox-locale-de to make it work again ... something seems out of sync
[09:48] <tkamppeter> doko, no, I had only done some experiments for the Nexus 7 Ubuntu desktop, but nowadays I do not package XBMC any more.
[09:51] <tkamppeter> doko, one thing which also made me stopping with that is that there are live TV modules with non-suitable licenses and so these models need appropriate package splitting.
[09:52] <tkamppeter> doko, if you are packaging XBMC I have a simple patch which makes it working on the Ubuntu desktop with touch screen (with mouse it works perfectly).
[09:52] <doko> tkamppeter, I don't care, just merged because it was ftbfs. kept your two arm patches
[10:47] <Laney> Mirv: mitya57: qtcreator's RPATH looks borked
[10:48] <Laney> no wait, lies, $ORIGIN is a real thing
[10:48] <Laney> my brain was borked!
[10:50] <mitya57> By the way, do I get it right that qtcreator is the only remaining qt5.2 blocker?
[11:17] <Mirv> mitya57: it's one of many, a lot of packages have problems if you see the recipe builds at https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta2/+packages - I have tried to parse the dependency chain to find current blockers at http://pad.ubuntu.com/qt52-dependencies
[11:18] <Mirv> bug #1258057 suggests a newer stable branch snapshot of at least qtdeclarative would be needed
[11:18] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1258057 in Unity API "unity-api fails to build against Qt 5.2" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1258057
[11:19] <mitya57> Mirv: Thanks. Currently most of Qt auto-synced stuff and pyqt5 is blocked by that transition, so I *am* interested in moving it forward
[11:21] <mitya57> OK, that build overview will be a good start for me.
[11:24] <Laney> buh
[11:24] <Laney> I can't give the password box focus to unlock my desktop
[11:25] <seb128> try keyboard navigation? (e.g tab)
[11:26] <Laney> nope but it came back after I let it blank again
[11:26] <ogra_> attach a kinect and dance your password :)
[11:26] <seb128> or smile to the webcam to unlock!
[11:26] <ogra_> :)
[11:26] <Laney> some of the symbols would be quite tricky to dance
[11:27]  * Laney still has that picture of attente to hax his phone
[11:27] <Laney> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=905935
[11:27] <ubot2> bugzilla.redhat.com bug 905935 in gnome-screensaver "virt-viewer - unable to enter gnome-screensaver password" [Urgent,Closed: errata]
[11:33]  * Laney takes that patch
[11:35] <Laney> guess g-s is really really dead upstream, that's not committed there
[11:37] <ochosi> Laney: has there been a decision yet on whether light-locker will be used over gnome-screensaver?
[11:37] <ochosi> (in 14.04)
[11:37] <Laney> I think l-l was the intention, but I don't know about doing the integration
[11:38] <ochosi> don't think there's really much to do for you
[11:38] <ochosi> (update the session-indicator and session itself i suppose)
[11:38] <seb128> ochosi, light-locker sends you to the greeter no?
[11:38] <ochosi> seb128: yes, it uses the greeter as un/lock screen
[11:39] <seb128> ochosi, right, that's not going to happen for this cycle then
[11:39] <ochosi> ok
[11:39] <ochosi> because of VT switching?
[11:39] <seb128> ochosi, the greeter is on another VT, which means your seat becomes unactive, which means audio playback, mic, etc would stop on lock screen
[11:39] <ochosi> can't that be fixed somehow?
[11:40] <seb128> which is especially annoying if you let your computer play music or are in a call
[11:40] <ochosi> yeah, otoh in a multi-user env it's what's supposed to happen...
[11:40] <Laney> yes, when you user switch it's intended
[11:40] <Laney> but probably not for screen locking though
[11:41] <seb128> well, it's not intended if you idle and the screensaver kicks in
[11:41] <ochosi> yeah, true. for some strange reason this always worked for me here
[11:41] <ochosi> my music keeps playing when the screen gets locked
[11:41] <seb128> on the greeter?
[11:41] <ochosi> i know that it doesn't work for others, but it seems it's theoretically possible
[11:41] <ochosi> yes
[11:41] <seb128> weird
[11:41] <ochosi> and since lightdm does distinguish between switch-to-greeter and lock_hint, it could probably be tackled
[11:42] <seb128> righ
[11:42] <seb128> right
[11:42] <seb128> it could
[11:42] <seb128> it's just not safe enough for a LTS cycle
[11:42] <ochosi> i recently patched lightdm-gtk-greeter to blank the screen upon locking (to reduce vt-switching flickering)
[11:42] <seb128> that's the sort of changes you want to do some cycles in advance to have time to get feedback on the potential side effects
[11:42] <ochosi> you know that light-locker is a fork of g-s 3.6 i suppose?
[11:42] <seb128> yes
[11:43] <seb128> basically g-s without the GTK UI
[11:43] <ochosi> yup
[11:43] <seb128> well, in any case we would like to use the greeter as lock screen
[11:43] <seb128> it's just too much change for a LTS cycle
[11:43] <ochosi> ok, understood
[11:43] <seb128> it's easy enough to opt in to do that for those who want it though...
[11:44] <ochosi> who would know a bit about keeping stuff like music playing on locking? robert_ancell? or someone else as well?
[11:44] <ochosi> s/locking/VT-switching/
[11:45] <seb128> well, that's a feature I think
[11:45] <seb128> only the active seat has access to the devices
[11:45] <ochosi> right, makes sense
[11:45] <ochosi> but it could be made conditional
[11:45] <seb128> right
[11:46] <seb128> well, my guess is that it's going to be fixed in unity8/ubuntu "touch"
[11:46] <ogra_> Mir
[11:46] <seb128> e.g in the futur when playing is done through a service and not by the app itself
[11:46] <seb128> the service is probably not going to be linked to an active session
[11:47] <ochosi> hm, but it'll be important for desktops as well, and i guess ppl won't be happy if only the default player supports this
[11:47] <seb128> ogra_, I think it's more the music-service that's going to resolve that particular issue
[11:47] <seb128> well, in the futur all apps/players are going to use the service
[11:47] <ogra_> yeah, but it is Mir keeping the seat and tellig the service to go on i think
[11:47] <seb128> ogra_, ok, wfm
[11:47] <seb128> I just know that's something resolved on the ubuntu touch stack
[11:48] <ogra_> yeah
[11:49] <ochosi> seb128: well thanks for the heads up. so i guess if i do find a solution for this with the current stuff, that wouldn't change anything for you right?
[11:49] <ochosi> ("this" being audio playback etc)
[12:00] <seb128> ochosi, if you find a solution that doesn't make the security team unhappy I guess we could rediscuss it
[12:01] <seb128> ochosi, we first wanted to use the greeter as lock screen for the LTS, but we decided that stuff like calls/playback cutting on idle->lock screen wouldn't be something users would be happy with, and that maybe it was too much untested arch/changes for a LTS
[12:21] <ali1234> i don't see how you can guarantee that "in the futur all apps/players are going to use the service" unless you specifically disallow direct access to the audio device
[12:22] <ali1234> which would basically make ubuntu unusable for playing games or audio/video production
[12:22] <ogra_> well, apps that want to go on playing while the screen is locked will need to have special permissions
[12:23] <ogra_> which are provided via the service
[12:23] <ogra_> other apps will simply stop playing when you lock the screen
[12:24] <ali1234> also how did this even get implemented? i thought it was impossible to revoke sound access once the device is opened, due to linux not supporting revoke syscall?
[12:25] <ogra_> device permissions for desktops are handled via policykit
[12:25] <ogra_> (which in turn talked to consolekit .... which got replaced by logind)
[12:26] <ogra_> CK and logind unset the seat activity when you are locked .... media playback is by default only allowed for active local seats
[12:27] <ali1234> that doesn't really answer the question
[12:28] <ogra_> ??
[12:28] <ogra_> why not
[12:29] <ali1234> because changing the permissions on a device has no effect if i have already opened it, or so i have been lead to believe
[12:29] <ogra_> CK/logind revoke the device permissions of the user if you lock the screen
[12:29] <ogra_> you dont change the device, you change the users permissions
[12:31] <ali1234> so where does this take effect? presumably at a lower level than pulseaudio?
[12:32] <Laney> I'm pretty sure it is pulseaudio monitoring the sessions
[12:32] <ali1234> but doesn't PA run per user, as the user?
[12:32] <ogra_> its at a lower level ...
[12:32] <ogra_> or wait, alsa is routed through pulse in any case
[12:33] <Laney> it can monitor which sessions are active
[12:33] <ali1234> well it's alsa (library) -> PA -> alsa (kernel)
[12:33] <ogra_> (ignore me)
[12:33] <ogra_> right
[12:33] <ali1234> so if PA is doing it, what stops me from recompiling a PA that just ignores the session?
[12:34] <ogra_> not sure thats possible
[12:34] <ogra_> but you could indeed reconfigure alsa for direct device access
[12:35] <ogra_> and add your user to the audio group
[12:35] <ogra_> that will switch you back to last century permission mgmt and give you constant access
[12:37] <Laney> umm yeah, not sure what assigns the acls actually
[12:38] <seb128> ali1234, nothing blocks you to recompile PA or install another OS on your devices
[12:38] <ali1234> seb128: i mean as a user
[12:38] <ali1234> ie without root access
[12:38] <seb128> not sure what you try to get at
[12:38] <ogra_> seb128, can pulse actually be compiled without CK/PK/logind mgmt ?
[12:39] <ogra_> (for user sessions)
[12:39]  * ogra_ doubts that
[12:39] <seb128> ogra_, I've no idea, and I don't think we care
[12:39] <ogra_> that too :)
[12:39] <ali1234> seb128: if i open the audio subsystem and start playing and then switch session, precisely which piece of code revokes my access to the audio device? considering that i already have opened the device and linux does not have revoke() it can't be done with normal unix permissions
[12:39] <seb128> ali1234, the bottom line is that an user process is not going to be able to prevent the system to suspend
[12:40] <ogra_> ali1234, policykit
[12:40] <Laney> nope
[12:40] <ali1234> and which system calls does policykit use to do this? (if any; if not, then how does it do it?)
[12:40] <seb128> ali1234, I assume it's pulseaudio
[12:41] <seb128> ali1234, pulseaudio is what routes the sound, it can decide to stop routing to the device for your user
[12:41] <ali1234> seb128: well if you assume it's pulseaudio - pulseaudio runs in the user's session, so the user can just rebuild their own version of it and run it without needing root. their own version can just ignore the session
[12:42] <seb128> ali1234, right, and users can also put whatever OS they want on their devices, how is that revelent?
[12:42] <Laney> You can't modify the udev rules as a user
[12:42] <Laney> which is where the acls are set
[12:42] <ali1234> seb128: you need root access to install a new operating system
[12:42] <seb128> no you don't
[12:42] <seb128> you need physical access
[12:42] <ali1234> you don't? in ubuntu you can write to /dev/sda without root?
[12:42] <seb128> I can boot on an usb stick or a CD and install whatever I want
[12:43] <ali1234> you are missing the point, and i suspect doing so intentionally
[12:43] <seb128> no, I'm not understanding what you are trying to argue there
[12:43] <seb128> sure it's always possible to build/install stuff that are non default
[12:43] <ali1234> you claim that the user cannot be allowed access to the audio device because it would be a security issue
[12:43] <seb128> but app writers usually target the normal users
[12:44] <seb128> in which context?
[12:44] <seb128> touch or normal desktop user switching?
[12:44] <ali1234> yet i have demonstrated that any malicious user can simply bypass this by installing their own copy of pulseaudio in ~/bin
[12:44] <ali1234> normal desktop
[12:44] <seb128> oh, I never claimed it was a security thing, I said to check with the security team in case they have security concerns
[12:45] <seb128> I've no clue why things are done the way they are currently done
[12:45] <ali1234> well here's the thing: it *is* a security issue
[12:46] <ali1234> the only reason to have the audio cut off when you switch session is in order to mitigate this security issue
[12:46] <ali1234> but if it is implemented entirely in software which runs as the user the mitigation is ineffective anyway
[12:46] <seb128> well, it's also to allow the other user to access the device when you switch user I guess
[12:46] <Laney> it's not true
[12:47] <Laney> logind ships udev rules to manage the acls which trigger when the session status changes
[12:48] <ali1234> seb128: that's a good point
[12:49] <ali1234> i guess it's just to make sound work when you use guest login etc
[12:51] <Laney> it does also protect against maliciousness
[12:51] <Laney> the microphone is in the same subsystem
[12:51] <ali1234> right but if i open the microphone and start recording, and then the ACLs on the device change, i am unaffected because linux does not implement revoke() - i can continue to record all i like
[12:52] <Laney> show me
[12:52] <ali1234> unless this issue has somehow been fixed
[12:52] <ali1234> if so, i would like to know how
[12:53] <seb128> I've no idea about that, mdeslaur or security guys might know
[13:05] <mdeslaur> I may be wrong, but I believe udev removes the device and recreates it
[13:05] <mdeslaur> which invalidates the file handles
[13:05] <mdeslaur> or, hrm
[13:06] <mdeslaur> that's actually a good question
[13:06] <ali1234> Laney: it's demonstrated here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0#t=1859
[13:07] <mdeslaur> but it's not just security...something has to manage who gets access to devices when the active user gets switched, and which power policies applies, etc.
[13:07] <ali1234> i have no idea if it still works the same way, but if it does not, then my question is: what changed?
[13:07] <ali1234> mdeslaur: yeah i realise that now - there is also an element of cooperation
[13:08] <mdeslaur> in order to make the lock screen the greeter, a lot of stuff needs to be modified, it's a big undertaking
[13:09] <ali1234> well it's working in xubuntu - for certain values of working
[13:14] <mdeslaur> ali1234: and what is making sure the devices stay active when the greeter comes up as a lock screen, and what revokes permissions when another user is selected?
[13:15] <ali1234> i don't know but i know *something* is, because on xubuntu, your audio player stops when the screen saver starts :)
[13:16] <mdeslaur> oh, well, that's the issue
[13:16] <mdeslaur> that's precisely why the greeter needs to be modified, as we _don't_ want devices to be revoked when the greeter comes up
[13:17] <ali1234> but surely modifying the greeter won't help.. you'd need to modify pulseaudio and consolekit to handle this use case
[13:18] <ali1234> i mean the greeter doesn't know about this stuff, it's just a thing that draws a login window on screen
[13:19] <mdeslaur> ali1234: yes, instead of having everything monitor logind, which is monitoring vt switches, logind needs to be controlled by the greeter
[13:20] <mdeslaur> and the greeter will then decide when it's time to revoke devices (ie: when you actually switch to a new user, instead of a simple vt switch)
[13:20] <ali1234> yes - assuming you mean the display manager not the actual greeter
[13:21] <mdeslaur> yes
[13:21] <ochosi> another use-case is when you want the screen to blank upon locking, which is what normally happens with screensavers/lockers. while we've implemented that in gtk-greeter, it'd be nice if after a mouse-touch it wouldn't again take forever for the screen to go blank...
[13:21] <ali1234> although, what if the greeter wants to make sounds?
[13:21] <mdeslaur> and then there's the case of power management
[13:22] <mdeslaur> if I decided I want my laptop to suspend after 10 minutes, and the greeter is my lock screen...the DM now needs to know what my power management preferences are
[13:22] <ochosi> yeah, and in a multi-user env, different users might have different powermanager-settings
[13:23] <ali1234> well in that case, if multiple users are logged in, who's settings get used?
[13:23] <ochosi> exactly ^
[13:23] <ali1234> ochosi: i thnk this whole thing might be more trouble that it's worth
[13:23] <mdeslaur> ali1234: the last user who had an active session
[13:24] <ochosi> ali1234: possible. i'm starting to think we need to re-fork gnome-screensaver for xubuntu and have locking within the session and use the greeter only for user-switching
[13:24] <ochosi> ali1234: if we modify how the greeter uses the .ui file, we could theoretically even load the greeter's .ui file with gnome-screensaver
[13:25] <ali1234> ochosi: yeah i was just thinking that
[13:25] <mdeslaur> that would be pretty cool
[13:25] <mdeslaur> something needs to cover the vt anyway
[13:25] <ochosi> mdeslaur: that's the main advantage of using a gtk greeter over some other stuff ;)
[13:25] <ochosi> (i mean being able to reuse the .ui file)
[13:25] <ali1234> ochosi: or even make gnome-screensaver directly use gtk-greeter like how lightdm does
[13:26] <ochosi> ali1234: hm, that sounds nice, but also like a lot of work, no? :)
[13:26] <ali1234> no idea
[13:26] <mdeslaur> ochosi: hehe, at the disadvantage of looking like gtk :)
[13:26] <ochosi> but yeah, would be the ideal solution
[13:26] <ali1234> messing with .ui files sounds harder to me :)
[13:26] <ali1234> reusing the greeter binary would work also with unity-greeter
[13:27] <ali1234> but they would probably both need to be modified to support it
[13:27] <ochosi> ali1234: well it's insecure in the sense that you can never know what the UI file of a greeter contains
[13:27] <ochosi> mdeslaur: yeah, although gtk3 really gives you a lot of freedom
[13:28] <mdeslaur> ochosi: yes, I'm merely joking ;)
[13:28] <ochosi> ali1234: so basically a liblightdm would have to be written for gnome-screensaver
[13:29] <ochosi> mdeslaur: have to admit though, unity-greeter *does* look quite nice... :)
[13:29] <mdeslaur> you could also perhaps modify gnome-screensaver to actually run the greeter by emulating the dm
[13:29] <ali1234> yeah that's what i meant
[13:30] <mdeslaur> ali1234: ah, yes, missed that comment
[13:30] <ochosi> and it's much better than re-using the .ui file
[13:30] <ochosi> which would probably end up being a xubuntu-only solution
[13:31] <ali1234> yeah and lightdm-gtk-greeter only as well
[14:36] <kenvandine> Laney, yay for removing code!
[15:04] <Laney> kenvandine: it's to offset my christmas weight gain
[15:04] <kenvandine> haha
[15:05] <kenvandine> awesome to consolidate the accountsservice stuff
[15:07] <Laney> yeah, it felt too nasty to write it again
[15:07] <mlankhorst> ugh, uploaded xorg 1.15 rebuild to ppa
[15:09] <Laney> I bet you could reduce the boilerplate even further
[15:09] <Laney> for example by subclassing
[15:10] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:11] <kenvandine> Laney, i had one nitpick in your background branch
[15:11] <Laney> ya, I've fixed it
[15:11] <kenvandine> cool
[15:11] <kenvandine> thx :)
[15:11]  * Laney commits
[15:11] <Laney> you meant in the header file, right?
[15:12] <kenvandine> yeah
[15:12] <Laney> it's up now
[15:12] <Laney> thanks for the reviews
[15:12] <kenvandine> np
[15:30] <seb128> hey hey hey
[15:30] <seb128> it's meeting time
[15:30] <seb128> qengho, Sweetshark, mlankhorst, Laney, tkamppeter, desrt_, attente, larsu: hello ;-)
[15:30] <mlankhorst> g'day mate
[15:30] <desrt_> happy newyear!
[15:31] <larsu> oh, first meeting of the year \o/
[15:31] <attente> hey
[15:31] <seb128> happy new year !
[15:31] <seb128> I hope everyone had good holidays and a nice start of year
[15:32]  * kenvandine waves
[15:32] <desrt> it's too cold!
[15:32] <seb128> ok, let's get started (I expect the summary to be short, most of us are just back since yesterday)
[15:32] <mlankhorst> it started with uploading x1.15 to ppa and lts-saucy to archive, can't be a good year. :P
[15:32] <seb128> desrt, would be nice if you could give us some cold and snow back!
[15:32] <desrt> seb128: please... take it.
[15:32] <seb128> I just went for some exercice, 13°C out there
[15:32] <seb128> that's wrong
[15:33] <larsu> seb128: summer is coming!
[15:33] <seb128> should be some -10°C with snow
[15:33] <seb128> larsu, :/
[15:33] <mlankhorst> get started
[15:33] <seb128> ok, let's get started
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, hey
[15:33] <qengho> Hi all.
[15:33] <mlankhorst> ;P
[15:33] <qengho> * Holidays, family, et c.
[15:33] <qengho> * TODO: Working on High-DPI chromium and multitouch chromium.
[15:33] <qengho> * Speaking of multitouch:  DONE: gnome-bluetooth pairing small fix.
[15:33] <qengho> EOF
[15:33] <seb128> qengho, where is the new gnome-bluetooth fix? needs sponsoring?
[15:34] <cyphermox> moo?
[15:34] <qengho> It will need it, yes.  I'll ping someone soon.
[15:34] <cyphermox> feel free to bug me about any bluetooth, especially if you want help testing :)
[15:34] <desrt> cyphermox: hey... i have a bluetooth problem...
[15:35] <seb128> lol
[15:35] <cyphermox> desrt: after the meeting :)
[15:35] <desrt> you said 'any bluetooth', right? :)
[15:35] <seb128> cyphermox, hide!
[15:35] <seb128> cyphermox, happy new year btw ;-)
[15:35] <cyphermox> happy new year :)
[15:35] <qengho> Sorry I tricked you, cyphermox.
[15:35] <Laney> get him to test if it happens under 14.04
[15:35] <seb128> qengho, thanks, just subscribe ubuntu-sponsors to the bug (or ping cyphermox since he offered to look at ità
[15:35] <seb128> )
[15:36] <Laney> also fwd it upstream!
[15:36] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, back from holidays yet (I don't think I saw you wrote anything since I'm back)
[15:36] <seb128> cyphermox, speaking about fwd upstream, I think you still need to do a version of that gnome-control-center ssid fix rebased on trunk
[15:37] <cyphermox> indeed, I do
[15:37] <seb128> canonicaladmin doesn't have Sweetshark off
[15:37] <seb128> but he doesn't seem around so...
[15:37] <seb128> mlankhorst, your turn!
[15:37] <mlankhorst> xorg 1.15 upload to ppa (ready for testing with open source drivers and nvidia-177/304), lots of sru verifications, lts-saucy pushing to archive
[15:37] <mlankhorst> various bugs
[15:37] <mlankhorst> ^D
[15:38] <seb128> mlankhorst, do we aim at 1.15 for the LTS?
[15:38] <mlankhorst> yes
[15:38] <seb128> is that version stable yet?
[15:38] <mlankhorst> 1.15.0 has been released
[15:38] <seb128> was there a discussion about the update (including the Mir team)?
[15:38] <mlankhorst> ppa:canonical-x/x-staging for testing
[15:38] <mlankhorst> seems to work with mir
[15:38] <seb128> and what's the state of fglrx?
[15:38] <mlankhorst> that's blocking xorg 1.15 atm
[15:39] <seb128> ok
[15:39] <seb128> I guess you are going to do a proper call for testing on ubuntu-devel@ in any case before aiming at the archive, right? ;-)
[15:39] <mlankhorst> I doubt many people will, but in theory it's ready
[15:40] <seb128> well, an email there would at least assure everyone is aware of the update coming
[15:40] <seb128> mlankhorst, thanks
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, hey
[15:41] <Laney> hallo
[15:41] <Laney> • Last year! system-settings tests are failing on the device. Made some headway but they're not working yet: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg05683.html
[15:41] <Laney> • Last year! Some system-settings reviews including attente's icu one (should get that released)
[15:41] <Laney> • Make a private library to factor out the several places in which we handle AS in system-settings, in preparation for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/telephony-service/+bug/1265528
[15:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1265528 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Share ring tone with greeter via AccountsService" [Undecided,New]
[15:41] <Laney> • Update libgdata gnome-online-accounts in Debian & sync
[15:41] <Laney> done done done
[15:41] <Laney> hey desrt, how come you have to use a different annotation for default string values?
[15:41] <Laney> is it because of the gvariant text format?
[15:41] <seb128> Laney, are the tests still not happy on the device? I saw your email in my backlog/read through them, but I'm not sure I got all the details
[15:41] <Laney> no
[15:41] <Laney> try that branch I gave
[15:41] <seb128> ok
[15:41] <seb128> you need help?
[15:42] <Laney> that'd be nice
[15:42] <Laney> I found it quite hard to get advice
[15:42] <seb128> did you try mardy's suggestion?
[15:42] <Laney> yep
[15:42] <Laney> I posted a later reply about it
[15:42] <seb128> ok
[15:42] <seb128> I'm going to look at that again after the meeting
[15:42] <Laney> ty
[15:42] <seb128> I guess holidays didn't help to get replies
[15:42] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:42] <Laney> It'll take me a while to get up to speed on it again anyway
[15:42] <seb128> tkamppeter, hey
[15:42] <desrt> Laney: you don't need to use a different annotation
[15:42] <desrt> you can use the same one, but then you need to put it in proper gvariant format, including quotes
[15:42] <desrt> the other annotation lets you skip the quotes
[15:42] <desrt> stefw thought it would be less confusing this way
[15:42] <Sweetshark> seb128: yep, back from holidays (but having connectivity issues today)
[15:42] <desrt> so that's the compromise we reached
[15:43] <Laney> desrt: ya, that's what I figured, cheers
[15:43]  * desrt feels like he must be under a mountain of lag right now
[15:43] <Laney> also, nice lag
[15:43] <Laney> ha
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.0.43, fixing issues with orientation-requested/landscape, fit-to-page/fitplot, model-specific quirk rule application for PPD-less PostScript printing
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - poppler: Fixed duplex printing with pdftops, removed ABI-breaking upstream patches
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - cups: Synced 1.7.0 from Debian, pulling in many Red Hat fixes
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Fixed driver download bug
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - gutenprint: Added Canon device IDs from upstream for more reliable printer/driver assignment.
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - OpenPrinting web server: fixed bug of old Gutenprint version being downloaded.
[15:43] <tkamppeter> - Bugs
[15:44] <Laney> tkamppeter: did you find a non-abi breaking version of the fix?
[15:44] <tkamppeter> Laney, yes, my original patches.
[15:44] <Laney> ah ok
[15:44] <Laney> could you check those packages you emailed me to see if they use the symbol that changed?
[15:45] <seb128> we are going to have a poppler soname bump this cycle anyway
[15:45] <tkamppeter> Laney, how should I do this most efficiently?
[15:46] <seb128> so we can take that patch in when we do that (or just take 0.25/0.26 which is likely to include the change)
[15:46] <tkamppeter> Laney, the ABI change was a change in the parameter list of a function, if one of the packages had actually used this function it should have FTBFSed.
[15:47] <Laney> I'd probably grep the source :-)
[15:47] <Laney> yeah
[15:47] <Laney> someone might have patched though
[15:49] <Laney> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/search?prev=0.14&q=PSOutputDev indicates it's ok
[15:49] <seb128> let's see about the rdepends when we take the new version, there is going to be a soname transition in any case
[15:49] <seb128> tkamppeter, thanks
[15:49] <seb128> desrt, your turn
[15:51] <seb128> desrt under lag still?
[15:51] <seb128> ok, next
[15:51] <seb128> attente, hey ;-)
[15:51] <attente> hi seb128
[15:51] <desrt> finished up the dconf work for the phone guys -- we can now use dconf profiles as a sane way to do customisation...
[15:51] <desrt> may be worth reopening the question of if we want to do that for different overrides on the desktop...
[15:51] <desrt> also been doing a lot of work on menus stuff lately... fixed some separator bugs, implemented some new features... and got a bunch of stuff sorted on macos (and did some research there) to get an idea of how menus "ought to" look on various platforms
[15:51] <desrt> the idea is that we can add a switch to let app authors decide
[15:52] <attente> uploaded the gnome key grabber work to a ppa, still need to fix a few issues but it's somewhat usable
[15:52] <attente> https://launchpad.net/~attente/+archive/gnome-key-grabber
[15:52] <attente> (eof)
[15:52] <attente> heh
[15:52] <desrt> (eof, from my side of the lag)
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, is there a summary of the dconf changes somewhere?
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, thanks ;-)
[15:52] <desrt> seb128: the NEWS entry i will write soon?
[15:52] <seb128> desrt, ok
[15:53] <seb128> attente, how did it go with the compiz changes? do you need ppa testers?
[15:54] <attente> seb128, i'm thinking it'd be better to wait till i fix the remaining issues
[15:55] <seb128> ok, let us know when you need testers then
[15:55] <attente> seb128, ok
[15:56] <seb128> attente, thanks
[15:56] <seb128> larsu, your turn
[15:56] <larsu> yep
[15:56] <larsu> I continued working on evince since I didn't manage to finish that in dec
[15:56] <larsu> (I was pretty sick that last week)
[15:56] <seb128> attente, oh btw, I'm going to look at your u-s-s changes to re-enable keyboard options (catching up with backlog atm but it's on my todo)
[15:56] <larsu> reviewed desrt's menu patches
[15:57] <larsu> and investigated those two bugs you sent me
[15:57] <seb128> larsu, how is the evince work going? I hope upstream is going to take it, seems you are putting quite some efforts on it ;-)
[15:57] <attente> seb128, ok, thanks
[15:57] <larsu> seb128: I talked to chpe briefly, he definitely wants it done. I didn't get a chance to show him my patches yet
[15:57] <seb128> ok
[15:57] <larsu> I hope to be finishing that this week
[15:58] <seb128> larsu, did you try pinging desrt about your eog patch?
[15:58] <larsu> I'm working on the last tricky bits (the dynamic menus, history and bookmarks)
[15:58] <larsu> seb128: ya, he doesn't like it :(
[15:58] <seb128> :-(
[15:58] <larsu> I mean, he wants me to amend a little thing ;)
[15:58] <seb128> haha
[15:58] <larsu> I'll put that on bugzilla tonight, let's see what the maintainers say
[15:58] <desrt> seb128: i told him a way to make his patch better and reduce the size in half at the same time
[15:58] <seb128> I trust you guys to come with a working solution ;-)
[15:59] <desrt> seb128: he apparently doesn't like these kinds of reviews :p
[15:59] <larsu> not sure whether we should patch it in ubuntu, because I can't estimate the effects of it...
[15:59] <larsu> I'll let desrt decide
[15:59] <seb128> ok
[15:59] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[15:59] <larsu> desrt: I showed you how reviews are done. ok->reviewed
[15:59] <desrt> the concern here, i think, is if there are plugins that use threads
[15:59] <seb128> Sweetshark, is your internet better? want to do a status update?
[15:59] <desrt> if there is an eog plugins repository i'd do some research there
[15:59] <desrt> larsu: :)
[15:59] <larsu> desrt: I doubt many people use plugins...
[16:00] <larsu> desrt: thanks for the input though
[16:00] <Sweetshark> - building separate l10n works - but waiting for reviews from seb and rene
[16:00] <Sweetshark> - various bugsquashing/launchpad wiping
[16:00] <Sweetshark> - reinstall/update/harden my machines/setup
[16:01] <seb128> desrt, do you have any idea why/how it ends up in that lock?
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - Ive been attending 30c3: - tldr: everything is broken, internet security in the next year will be "interesting" - here is a part of the horrorshow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0w36GAyZIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJB1mYEZPPA
[16:01] <Sweetshark>  - "everything" is including phone Dual_ECDRBG, iPhones and iPads, SIM cards, ATMs, SD cards, X11 (rather lame though), Yubikeys, electric irons, Hotel keys, lawful, interception, SCADA (aka your local nuclear power plant) .... - ... aaand tamagotchis. - FWIW the evil maid attacks talk: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5600_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312301245_-_thwarting_evil_maid_attacks_-_eric_michaud_-_ryan_lackey.html might be i
[16:01] <Sweetshark> EOF
[16:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, you cut at "ryan_lackey.html might be i"
[16:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, so you started the new year in security paranoid mode I see? ;-)
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - building separate l10n works
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - but waiting for reviews from seb and rene
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - various bugsquashing/launchpad wiping
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - reinstall/update/harden my machines/setup
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - Ive been attending 30c3:
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - tldr: everything is broken, internet security in the next year will be "interesting"
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - here is a part of the horrorshow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0w36GAyZIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJB1mYEZPPA
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - "everything" is including phone Dual_EC_DRBG, iPhones and iPads, SIM cards, ATMs, SD cards, X11 (rather lame though), Yubikeys, electric irons, Hotel keys, lawful interception, SCADA (aka your local nuclear power plant) ....
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - ... aaand tamagotchis.
[16:01] <Sweetshark> - FWIW the evil maid attacks talk: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5600_-_en_-_saal_1_-_201312301245_-_thwarting_evil_maid_attacks_-_eric_michaud_-_ryan_lackey.html might be interesting for Canonical employees too
[16:01] <Sweetshark> EOF
[16:01] <seb128> Sweetshark, the l10n split review is on my todolist
[16:02] <seb128> Sweetshark, shrug, there was no need to repaste everything for the 1 line that got cut, you could have copied that one
[16:02] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks ;-)
[16:02] <Sweetshark> hmm, the copypasta over tmux/ssh/irssi got mangled somehow when there were leading whitespace
[16:02] <desrt> seb128: i don't know specifically... but a cond vs. a lock is something we've seen before...
[16:02] <desrt> seb128: the more long-held locks you have the more chance you have of hitting a lock inversion somewhere along the way
[16:03] <Sweetshark> seb128: and yes, full ack about the security paranoia.
[16:03] <larsu> desrt: btw, that bug only happens when using unity-gtk-module
[16:03] <seb128> ok, my turn, short one
[16:03] <desrt> interesting.
[16:03] <seb128> I'm just back since yesterday
[16:04] <seb128> so backlog mostly, emails, bug reports, changes in trusty
[16:04] <seb128> some discussions about changes that happened, some pings about bugs, tested some updates
[16:04] <seb128> nothing fancy

[16:04] <seb128>
[16:04] <seb128> is there any comment/question/other update?
[16:06] <seb128> seems not, that's a wrap then
[16:06] <Laney> ta
[16:06] <seb128> thanks everyone
[16:07] <larsu> thanks seb128!
[16:45] <seb128> xnox, could you do "python -c 'import locale; locale.getdefaultlocale()'" in the emulator?
[16:45] <seb128> or rather
[16:45] <seb128> python -c 'import locale; print(locale.getdefaultlocale())'
[16:46] <xnox> seb128: two not three?
[16:46] <xnox> seb128: i think my runner doesn't set the locale, I guess I should?
[16:46] <seb128> xnox, I guess you should
[16:47] <seb128> that error seems to be because locale.getdefaultlocale() returns None
[16:47] <xnox> seb128: # python -c 'import locale; print(locale.getdefaultlocale())
[16:47] <xnox> (None, None)
[16:47] <seb128> which seems buggy
[16:47] <xnox> seb128: TRUE =)
[16:47] <seb128> we should handle that case as well I guess, but you can fix it by setting a locale
[16:47] <xnox> seb128: here are local results - http://paste.ubuntu.com/6709987/
[16:48] <xnox> seb128: I think we do expect all touch users to have a proper & valid locale setup, whichever that might be.
[16:48] <xnox> seb128: french is default right?
[16:48] <xnox> =))))))))
[16:48] <seb128> indeed ;-)
[16:48] <seb128> xnox, locale -a ?
[16:49] <seb128> xnox, do you have any langpack installed/locale generated?
[16:49] <seb128> the touch image doesn't have that issue for sure
[16:50] <xnox> seb128: well, i'm using the touch tarball, not system-image installed. as system-image is not enabled on touch yet.
[16:50] <xnox> seb128: so there are differences, and the devil seems to be in the details.
[16:50] <seb128> right
[16:53] <xnox> seb128: yeah, i have langpacks locales, French Canadian is there so we're golden.
[16:54] <seb128> xnox, not sure why locale.getdefaultlocale() returns None
[16:54]  * seb128 reads some code
[16:55] <xnox> seb128: LANG and LANGUAGE and LC_ALL are empty, LC_* are set to POSIX (not C)..... not sure how that's valid =/
[16:56] <seb128> $ LANG= LANGUAGE= LC_ALL="POSIX" python -c 'import locale; print(locale.getdefaultlocale())'
[16:56] <seb128> (None, None)
[16:56] <seb128> xnox, so, yeah, it's an env issue
[16:57] <xnox> seb128: there is a helper to push a locale, i'll do that by default for all of them and rerun everything again. Thanks a lot for looking into this! =)
[16:57]  * xnox has another 2 dozen to sort through
[16:57] <seb128> xnox, yw
[17:03] <seb128> xnox, in fact Laney already fixed that issue in trunk
[17:03] <seb128> +if not lc:
[17:03] <seb128> +    lc = 'C'
[17:03] <seb128> +
[17:03] <seb128> on the u-s-s side
[17:03] <seb128> I guess we should try to land a new snapshot
[17:04] <Laney> something is going on there
[17:04] <Laney> see ci-eng
[17:04] <xnox> seb128: hm. And setting locale looks non-trivial as it tries to set it with
[17:04] <xnox>         cmd = "dbus-send --system --print-reply --dest="\
[17:04] <xnox>               "org.freedesktop.Accounts /org/freedesktop/Accounts/User32011 "\
[17:04] <xnox>               "org.freedesktop.Accounts.User.SetLanguage"\
[17:04] <xnox>               " string:%s" % args.lc
[17:04] <Laney> what is that?
[17:04] <xnox> seb128: and a reboot after that. I want to set it somehow.... pre-boot.
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, "that"?
[17:04] <seb128> Laney, the change?
[17:04] <Laney> that dbus-send line
[17:05] <xnox> Laney: that's phablet-config util. It does a few things like that.
[17:05] <xnox> Laney: phablet-config locale --lc fr_CA
[17:05]  * xnox needs a real system-image device
[17:05]  * xnox goes to charge grouper.
[17:05] <seb128> xnox, just backport http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~system-settings-touch/ubuntu-system-settings/trunk/revision/532 or wait for the new u-s-s upload
[17:06] <xnox> seb128: i suspect this locale issue also causing ubuntu keyboard failure to switch into caps lock mode.
[17:06] <xnox> (can't decide if language supports / needs caps lock....)
[17:07] <Laney> be nice if it used FindUserByName instead of hardcoding that
[17:09] <xnox> Laney: where do i need to apply "hash randomisation" ? cause if same random number is generated for the same hash-user-account each time, it's a security bug.... (i can guess that e.g. phablet user account is present on the system and thus try to hack it)
[17:09]  * xnox loves all the fallout from python randomising their hashes ;-)
[17:09] <xnox> Laney: don't worry about it, it's all re-written in Go anyway...
[17:10] <Laney> heh
[17:11] <mvo> seb128: good evening - can I haz a clock in the screenlock please? bug #1265610
[17:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1265610 in gnome-screensaver (Ubuntu) "[patch] Please display clock in screen lock" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265610
[17:11] <mvo> seb128: it even has a patch but needs a *nod* from someone :)
[17:12]  * ogra_ nods
[17:13] <Laney> how is session-migration invoked?
[17:15] <seb128> Laney, gnome-session calls it
[17:16] <Laney> ok
[17:16] <seb128> see 53_add_sessionmigration.patch in there
[17:16] <Laney> won't work on device then
[17:16] <seb128> having that gnome-session specific seems wrong
[17:16] <seb128> we should make it an upstart session job I gues
[17:16] <seb128> s
[17:16] <Laney> I guess it could go there now
[17:16]  * Laney looks at the patch
[17:16] <seb128> mvo, hey, happy new year!
[17:16]  * mdeslaur looks at mvo's patch
[17:17] <seb128> mvo, I'm having a look as well
[17:17] <Laney> oh, it just executes it
[17:17] <Laney> could surely be a job then, neat
[17:18] <larsu> why oh why am I in theming code again :'(
[17:18]  * Laney applies a fetching gradient to larsu
[17:18] <seb128> mvo, speaking of review, anything I can do to get https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/software-properties/handle-no-candidate/+merge/197917 moved? it might be a workaround but it seems still better than nothing?
[17:18] <larsu> Laney: :D
[17:18] <xnox> larsu: "theming code" you mean writting color themes for source-highlight ?! =)
[17:18] <mvo> seb128: good point
[17:18] <larsu> Laney: I hope you're not using any unico-specific css attritbutes. They only cause trouble.
[17:19] <larsu> xnox: I mean css really
[17:19] <xnox> =)))))
[17:25] <seb128> mvo, mdeslaur: not sure about that clock, is centered right for Ubuntu? also on a dual screen setup I get it on both monitor, where the bg image/unlock dialog is only on one monitor (the other one is empty, now only with a clock)
[17:26] <mvo> seb128: where do you want it displayed?
[17:26] <mvo> seb128: happy to adjust the patch
[17:26] <mvo> seb128: no idea about the dual monitor thing unfortunately
[17:28] <mdeslaur> does it respect the unity clock's settings? (ie: 12h or 24h, etc.)
[17:28] <seb128> mvo, I'm a bit unsure, I would have put it on the right (where it is on the desktop) ... but at the same time that screen is nowhere close from an unity session so I'm unsure it makes sense
[17:28] <seb128> I'm not a designer :p
[17:29] <mvo> mdeslaur: I don't think so, I need to add code for this
[17:29] <mdeslaur> mvo: I'm glad you didn't bring the black bar back, it's nice like that
[17:30] <mvo> mdeslaur: yeah, I do not like the bar either, but just  having the clock looks ok to me
[17:30] <mvo> mdeslaur, seb128: if there is a chance that this gets merged I'm happy to add support for the unity settings
[17:30] <mdeslaur> I tend to agree with seb128, on the right would be nicer
[17:30] <mdeslaur> but I'm not a designer, I just play one on tv
[17:31] <mdeslaur> I have no objection, seb128?
[17:31] <seb128> no objection
[17:31] <mvo> mdeslaur: ha! I don't even do that, so you win
[17:31]  * mvo will update the patch
[17:31] <seb128> mvo, don't spend too much time on it, at least not for now, I need to ping robert_ancell again, he had some work started to make it look like unity-greeter (that was some cycles ago)
[17:31] <seb128> we should try to do that for the LTS if we can
[17:32]  * seb128 hates the old boring lock screen
[17:32] <mdeslaur> yes, would be nice to get the unity look in for the lts
[17:32] <mdeslaur> If I was responsible for the desktop team, I'd assign at least 3 people to do that :)
[17:32] <seb128> lol
[17:33] <mvo> heh
[17:33] <mdeslaur> that and bring the menus back to all my favourite applications
[17:33] <mdeslaur> :)
[17:34] <mvo> ok, I can wait to hear from robert
[17:36] <seb128> mvo, well, I would just put the clock to the right and upload
[17:36] <seb128> mvo, if you want to do that
[17:36] <seb128> mvo, we can decide on the other polish later according to what we do
[17:37] <davmor2> mvo: happy new year dude, how's life treating you?
[17:38] <ali1234> tedg: what's happening with indicator upstart launching?
[17:39] <mvo> seb128: ok, clock is right now, next is to honor the settings from unity
[17:40] <mvo> hey davmor2! I'm good, thanks! how are you?
[17:40] <davmor2> mvo: crazy busy but that can only be a good thing right :)
[17:41] <chrisccoulson> hello mvo! :)
[17:42] <mvo> hey chrisccoulson! happy new year
[17:42] <mvo> davmor2: haha - so just like last year (and the year before ;)
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> mvo, happy new year to you too. how are you doing?
[17:43] <mvo> chrisccoulson: good, thanks! how are you?
[17:44] <chrisccoulson> mvo, yeah, pretty good. lots of things to do :)
[17:44] <seb128> mvo, btw if you want to upload gnome-screensaver, you need to rebase, Laney just sneaked an upload under your feet it seems ;-)
[17:44] <Laney> what, that was at least an hour ago :P
[17:46] <mvo> seb128: *weeeh* looking into indicator-datetime it looks like adding support for the indicator-datetime is not entirely trivial
[17:46] <mvo> hm, maybe its not too bad
[17:46] <seb128> mvo, that's why I said to not bother, if we go for a greeter like UI we might just load indicator-datetime
[17:47] <mvo> seb128, mdeslaur: any preferences on the padding? if not I will just use 10px
[17:47] <mvo> seb128: aha, cool
[17:47] <seb128> mvo, 10px seems fine to me
[17:47] <mvo> seb128: so just the padding and wait&see? I can add support for the settings later if it turns out that the greeter like UI does not get done
[17:48] <seb128> mvo, right, exactly what I suggest, land that and see later depending on what we do or not
[17:48] <mvo> great
[18:00] <tkamppeter> larsu, hi
[18:02] <larsu> tkamppeter: hey
[18:06] <tkamppeter> larsu, we have our OP call now.\
[18:31] <Laney> see you tomorrow!
[19:40] <tedg> ali1234, Yes, have a plan now.
[19:40] <tedg> Just need to implement the details of it :-)
[19:41] <ali1234> cool. still going with upstart? going to fix the upstart dbus activation?
[19:43] <tedg> Yeah, going with Upstart and XDG Autostart.  Basically moving to a "session service"
[19:43] <tedg> You can start them either way depending on your session manager.
[19:44] <tedg> So I guess not "going with Upstart" more "going with session manager" where Upstart can be a session manager.
[19:44] <ali1234> ok... so did you see my MR on indicator3 to remove the timeout?
[19:44] <tedg> Yes, we need that.  I was going to try and put all the pieces together.  That's one.
[19:45] <tedg> I haven't reviewed it in detail, but assuming the details are good, it's a patch we want.
[19:46] <ali1234> i'm not sure if basically any of the code that is left really does anything useful... i only amputated the timeout
[19:46] <ali1234> i do know that indicator-application is currently non-functional and it's really confusing a lot of people... loads of bug reports about it all over the place
[19:47] <ali1234> well, outside unity that is
[19:55] <tedg> Yeah, I think amputation is appropriate. :-)
[19:55] <tedg> Really I just want to not have code doing process management in libindicator.
[21:03] <mdeslaur> seb128: that didn't take long: http://iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-1404s-lock-screen-updated-clock-support
[21:04] <seb128> mdeslaur, lol, crazy websites ;-)
[21:29] <Laney> why no article about my cool bug fix!
[21:39] <xnox> Laney: which?
[21:40] <Laney> any of them :P
[21:40] <mdeslaur> I now expect a news story about each of my uploads
[21:40] <Laney> the clock got posted to reddit and everything
[21:40] <mdeslaur> or else, I'll be pretty disappointed.
[21:55] <xnox> Laney: hm? URL please, i'm so out of touch =)
[21:56] <Laney> xnox: http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/1unhzw/ubuntu_1404s_lock_screen_updated_with_clock/
[21:58] <xnox> Laney: OMG if _that_ gets a news wire PR release, with screenshots & comments threads, trust me you are a Nobel Prize Winner of All Computer Development =)
[21:58] <Laney> slow news day :P
[21:59] <xnox> Laney: reading rick's g+, i wonder if he thinks i moved to phone foundations.... ;-)
[22:00] <xnox> or even ci
[22:01] <Laney> haha
[22:01] <Laney> it was good praise regardless
[22:03] <xnox> Laney: yeah =) might come in handy when things break ;-)


[00:00] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALfa9a190c88b3: Add print color as Gray checkbox] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALfa9a190c88b3
[05:59] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL4f6ff771b83b: Add printer options screenshot] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL4f6ff771b83b
[06:41] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALb4023e85cc4c: Remove unnesecary whitespace] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALb4023e85cc4c
[06:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL47d40b6102c8: Remove uneeded whitespace] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL47d40b6102c8
[06:49] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL655c78b50c4b: Reword summary of Window Effects] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL655c78b50c4b
[06:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUALcfcb3e690dbd: Reword launch compton just this once] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUALcfcb3e690dbd
[06:52] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL1eca766b9449: Fix capitilization] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL1eca766b9449
[06:59] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL0ab6aa283c73: Reword close keyboard shortcut] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL0ab6aa283c73
[14:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T122: New Manual URL Design] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T122#2436
 https://github.com/lxqt/pcmanfm-qt/issues/1018
[14:38] <wxl[m]> https://github.com/lxqt/pcmanfm-qt/issues/1018
[14:38] <wxl[m]> We should pull that in. That's been an annoying problem now finally resolved!
[14:41] <wxl[m]> So that was interesting. From FastHub there was no share option to RiotX and I just hit Telegram. It sent without further confirmation, but never showed up. So I copied and pasted here. And then deleted on Telegram. And then it showed up. Wth. Told you Telegram sucks.
[14:44] <wxl[m]> Also new Calamares https://calamares.io/calamares-3.2.14-is-out/
[14:45] <wxl[m]> Especially of note there is that the legacy GeoIP config is no longer supported so we'll have to fix settings
[14:45] <wxl[m]> @kc2bez ^
[14:54] <kc2bez> wxl: I saw that. We converted all the settings and are not using the legacy style.
[14:55] <wxl[m]> K cool. You planning on grabbing the new release?
[14:57] <kc2bez> Should I do that before release?
[14:58] <kc2bez> Also not sure if it will resolve any of the geoip issues folks were having but I did notice some refactoring took place.
[15:07] <kc2bez> wxl[m]: I also sent you a pm on IRC.
 Get everything uploaded today please
 I'm about to go bumping non RC tasks to 20.04
 kc2bez: Could you communicate with [ade] and tell him we have a release in two weeks?
 Just to make sure we have our ducks in a row for that
 Today at lunch I'm going to get stuff uploaded
[15:23] <kc2bez> @tsimonq2 I will send you a pm shortly too.
 Thanks.
[15:31] <wxl[m]> @kc2bez afk so if it's urgent you can use some other means including (ew) telegram
 I think it's fair to say that it's Real Life stuff, which is totally fine. I'll let him elaborate if he wishes
[15:36] <kc2bez> wxl[m]: not super urgent just wanted to fill in the blanks for you.
 New Cala cleared with release team
 Art should be no issue
 PCManFM should also be no issue since it's bugfix
[15:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T121: nm-tray fails to build] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T121#2438
[15:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T96: investigate yshui's compton fork] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T96#2442
[15:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T96: investigate yshui's compton fork] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T96#2443
[15:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T59: fix keyboard shortcuts] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T59#2444
[15:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T75: need new Lenny!] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T75#2451
[15:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T72: tweak minimum requirements] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T72#2452
[15:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T121: nm-tray fails to build] apt-ghetto (apt-ghetto) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T121#2456
[15:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T56: Transfer testcases to the actual testcase branch] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T56#2457
[15:54] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T92: 19.10 manual changes] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T92#2458
[15:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T121: nm-tray fails to build] tsimonq2 (Simon Quigley) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T121#2460
 The 19.10 task has been cleaned up
 If there are any other tasks that you think need to be done prior to release, please add them ASAP
 Phab is going down in 30 minutes for some regular maintenance. It shouldn't take more than 5 minutes
 My biggest concern is with shortcut, I know @The_LoudSpeaker is on exmas and I'm full with work, but I we can't fix that it will be a major issue.
 *exams
 What are the current problems?
 We need to grab latest from git
 or apply 18 patches.
 lxqt-globalkeys right?
 yes
 Okay, is that all?
 yes
 Have you tested with the packages in the unstable CI?
 I've been testing latest git (compile in my system) and is working ok
 no, haven't tested ci
 Okay. I just want to communicate that we're two weeks away from release and there's little wiggle room for iteration on it if I were to go ahead and JFD that.
 Is that okay?
 JFD?
 John Fitzgerald Donald?
 Just Freaking Do :)
 Just Do
 Yes
 I don' have time to do it since it's a grab  from unreleased code. If it were a released version I know how to do it and I will be confident doing it.
 Since I have little time to do it.
 I can do it, I just want you to know that we're on the hook to fix it if this new version is broken.
 I will be available this Saturday night. Will do it then.
 I can do it, it'll take me < 5 mins :}
 Go ahead then. I will test.
 I've tested compile versio, but it would be better to test with ci/unstable
 Is there a way I could only take that package from ci/unstable?
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Go ahead then. I will test.], Test with this first ASAP and then I can do the cherry picking
 @HMollerCl [Is there a way I could only take that package from ci/unstable?], Yes
 Go to the PPA page in Launchpad
 You might have to pull down that whole stack
 @tsimonq2 [Test with this first ASAP and then I can do the cherry picking], Can't do till Saturday sorry. And if you can wait till Saturday then I can only do it then.
 @HMollerCl [Is there a way I could only take that package from ci/unstable?], Wget from ppa?
 Otherwise just write out a manual testcase and I can JFD that
 @tsimonq2 [Otherwise just write out a manual testcase and I can JFD that], I can do that now.: … Check if shortcuts are not repeated after multiple reboots. … Done.
 Define "repeated" more precisely
 @The_LoudSpeaker [I can do that now.: … Check if shortcuts are not repeated after multiple reboots. …], We can add our own config when this gets fixed.
 @tsimonq2 [Otherwise just write out a manual testcase and I can JFD that], test is only to erase duplicates shortcuts and do several logout/login and see if shortcuts are duplicated and if SUper_L (for menu) or Meta+R (for launcher) stop working.
 @tsimonq2 [Define "repeated" more precisely], Open shortcut settings. … See if you have any shortcut entries repeated.
 There is no need to reboot, logout/login in enough.
 @HMollerCl [test is only to erase duplicates shortcuts and do several logout/login and see i …], +1
 Is cherry picking globalkeys all I need to do or do I have to apply anything else?
 @HMollerCl [There is no need to reboot, logout/login in enough.], Might also try restarting globalkeys from session settings once/twice.
 @tsimonq2 [Is cherry picking globalkeys all I need to do or do I have to apply anything els …], Nope. Config files are already in default settings. Should work
 @The_LoudSpeaker [We can add our own config when this gets fixed.], Scratch this.
 @The_LoudSpeaker [Might also try restarting globalkeys from session settings once/twice.], es, it wouldn't hurt
 *yes
 Okay
 @tsimonq2 how I should search for lxqt-globalkyes ci/unstable ppa in launchpad?
 https://launchpad.net/~lxqt/+archive/ubuntu/ppa this is old
 https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable-ci-proposed/+build/17838510
 thanks!
 Here you have the overview: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable-ci/+packages
[16:44] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rNMTRAYPACKAGING02814a7ea5e1: Fix FTBS of nm-tray] apt-ghetto (apt-ghetto) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rNMTRAYPACKAGING02814a7ea5e1
[16:53] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rNMTRAYPACKAGING792d166148e5: Merge branch 'ci/stable' into ci/unstable] apt-ghetto (apt-ghetto) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rNMTRAYPACKAGING792d166148e5
 My upload to ci/stable has closed https://phab.lubuntu.me/D48
[16:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Closed] Fix FTBS of nm-tray: https://phab.lubuntu.me/D48
 Is this normal?
 @aptghetto [https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable-ci-proposed/+build/17 …], the ppa doesn't have globalkeys, I would need to install the .deb directly is that correct?
 this pa https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable-ci-proposed
 https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-ci/+archive/ubuntu/unstable-ci
 But I have normally downloaded only the package and installed it with `sudo apt install ./NAME.deb` in a vm
 I did with the ppa
 only the package I want and then disable ppa
[17:35] <wxl> @kc2bez: pm replied to
[17:37] <kc2bez> thanks wxl
[17:38] <wxl> @tsimonq2: you bumped @The_LoudSpeaker's xscreensaver fix?
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: you bumped @The_LoudSpeaker's xscreensaver fix?], Umm what?
[17:43] <wxl> @The_LoudSpeaker: @tsimonq2 removed https://phab.lubuntu.me/T21 from the 19.10 subtasks in his cleanup process
[17:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Medium, Open] Our xscreensaver theme is too old: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T21
 @wxl [<wxl> @tsimonq2: you bumped @The_LoudSpeaker's xscreensaver fix?], Is there a fix already in there?
 Not yet. There is a clean list of themes we can use but it needs cleaning. Also, we are considering creating a new one.
 We don't have time for that this cycle
 Unless you can get that done by EOD Friday
[19:08] <wxl> @tsimonq2: totally easy to fix it
[19:09] <wxl> the task should be split into separate tasks
[19:09] <wxl> the two that can be done easy:
[19:09] <wxl>  1. default wallpapers
[19:09] <wxl>  2. THE default wallpaper
[19:35] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T122: New Manual URL Design] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T122#2463
[20:11] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL8920e78af2cc: Reword summary of shortcut keys] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL8920e78af2cc
[20:13] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rMANUAL8d02d95b3c58: Update summary of Shortcut keys] lynorian (Lyn Perrine) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rMANUAL8d02d95b3c58
 @tsimonq2 I tested ci/unstable lxqt-globalkeys and is working as expected.
 Nice!
[20:58] <krytarik> https://git.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/quassel/tree/debian/patches/lubuntu_01_default_network_channel.patch - any good reason other than just copypasting stuff from elsewhere to use non-SSL and connect over irc.ubuntu.com there, rather than using 'chat.freenode.net:+6697' to use SSL and also make cert verification work?
 No good reason whatsoever
[20:59] <wxl> ew
 Give me a patch and I'll sponsor it
[20:59] <wxl> how did that even get there?
[20:59] <wxl> i thought we provided that through default settings?
 nooope
[20:59] <wxl> why not?
[21:00] <wxl> we could get all the lubuntu channels in there
[21:00] <wxl> plus lxqt and calamares and ... :)
 Look into it
[21:02] <wxl> make a task :)
 do we have standup now?
 I'm confused with daylight savings time
 I think so
[21:10] <wxl> oh yikes yes
[21:10] <wxl> sorry ya'll
[21:10] <wxl> !standup
[21:11] <lynorian> \o
[21:14] <wxl> wow ok no one's here :)
[21:14] <wxl> sooooo i guess you can go ahead lyn
[21:14] <lynorian> Printer property tabs have a lot more detail like 4 paragraphs
[21:14] <lynorian> Screengrab tray icon functionality
[21:14] <lynorian> add switch between ALSA and pulseaudio
[21:14] <lynorian> Work on panel rewording
[21:14] <lynorian> Many minor rewords and edits
[21:15] <lynorian> and worked some with tsimonq2 on getting a new url scheme for the manual
[21:16] <lynorian> really condensced this week that printer properiteis has like 4 new paragraphs in it
[21:16] <wxl> very cool
[21:16] <wxl> amazing work as always
 \o
[21:18] <lynorian> I kind of really need to go get groceries today   so may not stick around that much longer
[21:18] <wxl> ok thanks for the help lyn
[21:18] <wxl> we couldn't do it without you!!!
[21:19] <wxl> go ahead hans
 it's amazing @lynorian
 nothing new except ci/unstable lxqt-globalkeys test. We didn't had upstream release so I undertsand that @tsimonq2 will upgrade to git.
 HAving had much time to look ath cala geoip issue.
 *Haven't
 but I've seen it happen in different places in Santiago
 EOF
[21:21] <wxl> thx hans
[21:21] <wxl> i haven't done much. poked a bit at the cala/geoip thing. edited the testing wiki. didn't really *finish* anything, so..
 did you found out anything new on geoip?
[21:24] <wxl> no
[21:24] <wxl> except for noticing raman had no issues
[21:24] <wxl> so that's weird
[21:25] <wxl> i did find an upstream issue with it not working for someone else
 @HMollerCl [did you found out anything new on geoip?], no isues too
[21:28] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [T56: Transfer testcases to the actual testcase branch] guiverc (Chris Guiver) commented on the task: https://phab.lubuntu.me/T56#2464
 @wxl at this point we are the only ones here that have the problem
[21:32] <wxl> @HMollerCl where's your proxy located?
[21:33] <kc2bez> Here for a few minutes.
[21:34] <wxl> fire away dano
[21:34] <kc2bez> I didn't have any issues with my VPN when I tested that with cala
[21:34] <kc2bez> I spent some time looking at logs from others
[21:35] <kc2bez> it looks like for whatever reason cala couldn't figure out what was being returned.
[21:36] <kc2bez> from the geoip service ^
[21:36] <kc2bez> not consistent for sure
[21:37] <kc2bez> not sure how much time I will have while I am away but I will try to stop in and do what I can
[21:37] <kc2bez> question
[21:38] <kc2bez> if I have time should I upload the cala version to CI or do a diff to eoan?
[21:38] <wxl> well i guess that depends on your confidence level
[21:39] <wxl> if it's high, just do eoan
[21:39] <kc2bez> ok fair enough.
[21:39] <wxl> if you get it in sooner than later, we probably have some time to hack at it if need be
[21:39] <wxl> not so much come friday
[21:40] <kc2bez> understood
[21:40] <wxl> but honestly what's the difference between building and testing a deb in a vm versus doing it in ci? not much. there's something, don't get me wrong. but not much.
[21:41] <kc2bez> true, it just gives others the opportunity to test before we upload.
[21:41] <wxl> well so does a ppa upload
[21:42] <kc2bez> that is true as well. I just don't want to introduce anything new that I won't have time to test.
[21:43] <wxl> right right
[21:43] <wxl> also remember you've got limited time
[21:44] <wxl> i'd say avoid ci, but that's just my opinion
[21:45] <kc2bez> ok fair enough. I will try for that.
[21:48] <kc2bez> There is a big copyright addition that needs to be added I think for the appstream addition and I think we need to stop building against PythonQt since that is making the build fail in unstable CI.
[21:49] <wxl> oi vey
[21:49] <kc2bez> another reason I am hesitant
[21:50] <wxl> good call. do ci.
[21:50] <kc2bez> ok. sounds like a plan.
 I could test cala ci, live and update to ci and see what happens, does It helps wxl @kc2bez?
 Also, my proxy is in Chile, is from my work, but I also tested in my home w/o proxy, same issue
[21:59] <wxl> if it weren't for dan i'd say it's just that the americas are cursed
 Well, Dan is on default so, not sure if it works.
[22:00] <kc2bez> Good point Hans
 @kc2bez you could change default to test
[22:00] <wxl> you know.... i haven't checked while on my vpn..... i wonder...........
[22:01] <wxl> what do you mean about default/test?
 Default is ny
[22:01] <wxl> oh
[22:01] <kc2bez> right
[22:01] <wxl> yeah i tried all that and swapping time zones in different variations to no avail
[22:02] <kc2bez> it exists so that if you don't have an internet connection it will pin the map on ny
[22:02] <kc2bez> I don't know why that location was chosen but it comes from Calamares
[22:03] <wxl> right, it's hardcoded
[22:03] <wxl> you can remove any explicit configuration and you'll get ny
[22:03] <kc2bez> yes
[22:04] <kc2bez> I could however tell that I received America New York from geoip in the logs.
[22:05] <kc2bez> and like I said my VPN that comes out in Japan also worked.
[22:05] <kc2bez> so maybe it is a timing or race condition.
[22:05] <kc2bez> ?
 We have no malfunction reports from outside americas, then?
 @kc2bez [<kc2bez> I could however tell that I received America New York from geoip in the …], I also see cl for welcome in logs
[22:06] <wxl> i saw in this upstream issue there's some way to turn on some debugging about the timezone???
 You can run cala with -d
 @HMollerCl [We have no malfunction reports from outside americas, then?], all the times I've tried I haven't had any problems
[22:07] <wxl> not that, though
[22:08] <kc2bez> i did the -d but I don't know what the special timezone debug is.
 @kc2bez I thought the default was in the conf file
[22:09] <kc2bez> it is but even if you wipe it out it still does ny
[22:09] <wxl> https://github.com/calamares/calamares/issues/1240
[22:10] <wxl> "I enabled Timezone-Debug-Mode"
[22:10] <kc2bez> I saw that bug but I didn't have time to figure it out.
[22:11] <wxl> it's "assumed fixed" in https://github.com/calamares/calamares/commit/0a1dc77f9be6b4c696e05fe218f7ff525d5bc702
[22:11] <wxl> which is in 3.2.14
[22:12] <wxl> so hurry up and get that up so we can test it @kc2bez :)
[22:14] <kc2bez> trust me it sounds like more fun right now 😁. All good news here though and we are getting ready to leave the hospital for the night and get some dinner. we should be back at the hotel in a little over an hour.
[22:14] <wxl> i hear you :( but glad all is going good..
 Here but late. Work ran later as I've had back to back client calls today. Let me know if there's something needed to be tested in vm or anything as I have access to my Linux laptop fully again
 @wxl [<wxl> which is in 3.2.14], It is in ci/unstable? I can check that
 it isn't yet @HMollerCl the new version from git has been failing to build.
[22:57] <wxl> one could always build master and confirm it
 But if it fails to build in ci... It might fail in live too
[23:02] <wxl> more likely a packaging issue which is what @kc2bez alluded to above (see copyright mention)
[23:39] <kc2bez> you can see the build log here https://launchpadlibrarian.net/445130652/buildlog_ubuntu-eoan-amd64.calamares_3.2.12+git201910030114~eoan-0ubuntu1~ppa1_BUILDING.txt.gz
[23:39] <kc2bez> it fails on PythonQt^
 Missing depends
 apt-cache find PythonQt.h
 Or packages.ubuntu.com
 Add that as a build dep
 Voila
 well the issue with that is that we should already have the build depend
 Debian stopped building against PythonQt in February https://salsa.debian.org/qt-kde-team/extras/calamares/commit/b125acf24260f3fbf50ea2b547996871a517ab13


[01:41] <qhartman> Has anyone had success getting HP's various tools and utilities for Proliant machines (which are supported under Debian) working with Ubuntu?
[04:31] <appellation> To somebody: I'm trying to find out the latest news on porting Edgy to PowerPC (if there is any). Having trouble finding it. Anyone know where to look?
[04:31] <mralphabet> I am by no means the expert, but it's not something I have seen
[04:32] <mralphabet> Have you looked in launchpad for any powerpc references?
[04:32] <shawarma> appellation: Porting it to powerpc? It alread runs there?
[04:32] <appellation> Right. Good idea. Launchpad is new to me...
[04:36] <shawarma> appellation: And why edgy?
[04:36] <appellation> shawarma: I thought PowerPC isn't supported in Fawn yet.
[04:36] <shawarma> appellation: Um... You said Edgy.
[04:36] <shawarma> appellation: And "yet" and "fawn" do not belong in the same sentence. :)
[04:36] <appellation> Right. So, I was looking for documentation on Edgy, and I'm having trouble finding it.
[04:36] <shawarma> appellation: Feisty Fawn was released back in April.
[04:37] <shawarma> appellation: Why are you trying to run edgy?
[04:37] <shawarma> appellation: If that's what you really want, the iso's are here: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edgy/
[04:38] <shawarma> appellation: there's powerpc iso's as well.
[04:38] <appellation> shawarma: Let's clear some things up first. Am I right or wrong: Fawn does NOT run on Fawn.
[04:38] <appellation> typing too early..ugh
[04:38] <shawarma> appellation: Um..
[04:38] <shawarma> :)
[04:38] <appellation> by which I mean: Fawn does NOT run on PowerPC
[04:39] <shawarma> appellation: Sure it does.
[04:39] <appellation> OK
[04:39] <shawarma> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports/releases/7.04/release/
[04:39] <appellation> That's great. The documentation I found did not indicate it was supported. Thank you.
[04:39] <shawarma> It's not an officially supported platform anymore, though (you will not be able to buy support for it).
[04:40] <shawarma> It works, and there are several core developers using iBooks, so it's not going to be dropped anytime soon.
[04:40] <appellation> Ah...that's why I was confused. Excellent. I'll go get some coffee now.
[05:49] <kronus> hi, I have a fresh install of ubuntu server, is mysql set up with a root password out of the box, or do I still have to edit my.conf and set a root pass?
[05:51] <mralphabet> kronus: you need to set it


[03:44] <amurray> luis220413: if you happen to see this in channel logs etc - please there is no need to announce every time when you are going to go and come back - IRC is assumed to be asynchronous, Ubuntu developers are all over the globe in different time zones so it is assumed that in general no-one will reply immediately
[03:45] <amurray> luis220413: therefore it is fine if you are not here at the time someone is trying to contact you - so please save some electrons and dispense with the 'I will return...' 'I returned' type messages
[03:47] <Unit193> ...I just read that last bit in a Dragoon voice. >_>
[16:46] <teward> oh good sarnold is on community duty this week heh
[18:54] <teward[m]> sarnold if/when you awake, do me a favor and ping me via PM
[18:54] <teward[m]> i have things to discuss ;P
[18:58]  * sarnold hides behind flakey matrix bridges
[18:59]  * teward hides the matrix bridges behind sarnold
[18:59] <teward> oops :)
[18:59] <teward> you're hiding behind the bridge which is hiding behind you which is.... [KERNEL PANIC] oom tried to kill init.
[19:00]  * sarnold falls over
[19:06] <tomreyn> now he's hiding *under* the bridge
[19:08] <teward> hah
[19:19] <sarnold> :D
[19:25] <luis220413> https://bugs.launchpad.net/%7Eluis220413/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.information_type%3Alist=PUBLICSECURITY&assignee_opti
[19:29] <luis220413> We will need to have a workaround for the toolchain requirements in bug 1970783.
[19:35] <sarnold> hello luis220413, the upstream webkit2gtk folks move toolchains pretty quickly; we can't support it in older releases. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#WebKitGTK
[19:36] <teward> luis220413: while you're at it, read the entirety of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ before you ping anyone in here again
[19:36] <teward> sarnold knows all the reasoning behind this request, and likely will stand by the request even though I"m not on the SEcurity Team
[19:36] <teward> Eickmeyer: *cough*
[19:37] <Eickmeyer[m]> teward: ack
[20:10] <luis220413> sarnold: There are only 2 insufficient dependencies in Bionic, that can be backported with new source and binary package names.
[20:12] <luis220413> This is not a request, but a statement that I am available to get this fixed.
[20:13] <teward> new source and binary names are less likely to get included in an already released Ubuntu release as security updates
[20:13] <teward> so for that reason alone I would assume the FAQ statement about the upstream moving too quickly stands
[20:13] <teward> cc sarnold
[20:14] <teward> yes there are exceptions, and those exceptions are well documented
[20:14] <teward> and i don't think this falls into those exception cases
[20:16] <teward> luis220413: also, when the security team says 'no' and says 'we can't support this in older releases', just accept "no" as the answer
[20:24] <teward> i'll let sarnold make a decision but those're my opinions anyways
[20:31] <luis220413> New source and binary names are needed in the security pocket because security updates only build with the release and security pockets enabled.
[20:33] <sarnold> adding new packages is an undertaking; then those new packages must also be maintained, for whatever it is that people do with them. whatever built against the old version of webkit needs to be tested to make sure it works with new versions. Given that upstream has abandoned these old releases, they are perhaps not super-responsive to abi breaks.
[20:33] <sarnold> both firefox and chromium-browser are supported and exist
[20:41] <luis220413> I can maintain the CMake and ICU backports, except that the ICU backport will have to be in main.
[20:41] <luis220413> sarnold: What ABI breaks?
[20:43] <luis220413> There are security-sensitive uses of libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 in Bionic:
[20:43] <luis220413> * libgoa-backend-1.0-1 uses it to access online account login pages
[20:43] <luis220413> * gnome-online-accounts same
[20:44] <sarnold> luis220413: packages in ubuntu are typically maintained by teams: people come, people go, but teams are expected to continue
[20:44] <luis220413> * epiphany-browser is a web browser
[20:45] <luis220413> sarnold: I know, but I will not go before Bionic end-of-standard-support (April 2023)
[20:46] <luis220413> * surf is another web browser
[20:46] <luis220413> * libatrilview3 uses WebKit to execute JavaScript in PDFs
[20:48] <luis220413> * gthumb has a web album feature that appears to use WebKit
[20:55] <luis220413> I will prepare backports (if needed) and an updated webkit2gtk for Bionic soon.
[21:02] <sarnold> I suggest you find a different way to spend your time
[21:02] <sarnold> bringing in two new packages, who need an owner, is no small undertaking
[21:02] <sarnold> there's got to be something more important to work on
[21:10] <luis220413> They will be direct backports from Focal and this is affecting users right now. An alternative would be to state in the package description that support is only guaranteed during the first 3 years of the LTS period.
[21:11] <luis220413> Because they are direct backports from Focal, maintaining them would not take a lot of time.
[21:13] <luis220413> sarnold: What do you mean by "owner"?
[21:14] <sarnold> luis220413: someone who would read all bug reports, triage them, respond to them, look for fixes, apply fixes, perform testing on all dependent packages, etc, for the next ten years
[21:17] <luis220413> These backports will only be needed until the next few months. Once Bionic enters ESM upstream will cease to support Focal.
[21:17] <luis220413> *in the next few months
[21:17] <teward> upstream's support period doesn't matter
[21:17] <teward> the ESM period for Ubuntu does matter though to some extent
[21:17] <teward> because it's not EOL until the end of ESM
[21:18] <teward> hence 'eight years' and 'ten years' and such
[21:18] <teward> including current LTS + its ESM period
[21:19] <teward> that's where Seth's values come into play
[21:20] <sarnold> luis220413: heh, is that an argument *for* this work or against this work?
[21:20] <teward> i would argue that your argument that upstream will cease to support Focal after Bionic enters ESM is support for *not* updating packages
[21:21] <teward> just, you know, my view on this.  (your statement to this effect is like shooting yourself in the foot and NOT in favor of doing the backporting)
[21:21] <luis220413> # My argument is for this work. Thomas Ward is right, but once upstream releases a version that requires new dependencies (most likely months after Bionic enters ESM) another backport will be needed.
[21:21] <luis220413> Remove the #
[21:21] <luis220413> * most likely a few months
[21:22] <luis220413> OK, I retire the "few months" statement.
[21:23] <teward> sarnold: remind me, ESM for Bionic starts when?
[21:23] <teward> April?
[21:24] <sarnold> teward: yeah, currently scheduled for april https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[21:25] <teward> so about 8 months.  I don't see a justification to put this amount of effort into something that will ultimately become irrelevant in 8 months time.
[21:25] <teward> 7 months*
[21:25] <luis220413> This will only become irrelevant when upstream releases a version with additional dependencies that are not satisfied in Bionic.
[21:25] <luis220413> nor by the backports
[21:27] <luis220413> OK
[21:30] <luis220413> Sorry. This will not become irrelevant because, when additional dependencies appear, additional backports can be made until the end of ESM.
[21:31] <luis220413> ESM for 16.04 covers the entirety of Ubuntu main, and I expect that that will also happen for 18.04.
[21:31] <luis220413> Source: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ESM/16.04
[21:31] <teward> i don't think you understand the scope for ESM
[21:31] <teward> from the FAQ:
[21:31] <teward> ESM customers receive security updates for high and critical CVEs (common vulnerabilities and exposures) for the most commonly used server packages in the Ubuntu main archive.
[21:31] <teward> *not* the entire Main archive
[21:32] <teward> the FAQ link in that link you have points to the FAQ I referenced
[21:32] <teward> reread what https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Standard_Support says
[21:32] <teward> i'm going to literally quote Seth here:
[21:32] <teward> [We] suggest you find a different way to spend your time.  there's got to be something more important to work on.
[21:32] <luis220413> Sorry, but I have to say this part of the FAQ is a bit outdated. This is true for Precise and Trusty, but not Xenial.
[21:33] <luis220413> *That part of the FAQ is true for Precise and Trusty but not Xenial.
[21:33] <luis220413> teward: OK. I will prepare several security updates in the next weeks.
[21:34] <teward> sarnold: my suggestion is ^^ you ignore any of their prods because all of their proddings have led to arguments and CoC violations
[21:34] <teward> you and the security team*