[11:15] <C10uD> does appindicator update its submenu-s if i add(edit) new widgets to them?
[11:58] <C10uD> Nafai, do you know anything about this? :)
[12:34] <nigelb> Nafai: poke
[14:56] <qense> good afternoon
[15:00] <tedg> qense: Good morning ;)
[15:01] <qense> tedg: aw, I'm jealous at the amount of day you've still got left
[16:39] <nigelb> Nafai: hey
[16:39] <Nafai> Hey nigelb
[16:39] <nigelb> did you get a way to get source for all deps?
[16:39] <Nafai> working on it :)
[16:40] <nigelb> Nafai: I've got something for you
[16:41] <nigelb> Nafai: http://justanothertriager.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/uds-m-day-5/
[16:42] <nigelb> ctrl+f your name ;)
[16:43] <Nafai> cool, thanks, I'll take a look
[16:43] <nigelb> :)


[00:39] <Peter70> tomreyn, why do I want to list configured repositories? How does that relate to PPAs? (This may be a dumb question, but I really don't know.)
[00:40] <Peter70> I mean, I just listed configured repositories, and I don't know what to look for in the list.
[00:43] <tomreyn> Peter70: this can help you identify which PPA's you're using. PPAs are hosted on ppa.launchpad.net
[00:44] <tomreyn> it should also help you identify third party repositories (i.e. not those hosting ubuntu(studio) itself)
[00:44] <tomreyn> apt-cache policy | nc termbin.com 9999     if you'd like to share it
[00:46] <Peter70> I think my level of familiarity may be misread. For example:  I went to ppa.launchpad.net and had a look around. I have absolutely no idea how that's supposed to help me figure out which PPAs I have to remove before an upgrade or how to do it.
[00:47] <Peter70> I may be way too much of a newbie to reasonably expect the help I need from you guys here.
[00:49] <tomreyn> Peter70: hmm, sorry, maybe let's try something a little easier, if i can get this done right (i'm not very familiar with ubuntustudio myself). see if you can find an application called "Software and Updates".
[00:49] <tomreyn> If you can find it, click on the "Other Software" tab
[00:50] <Peter70> I can find that, yes.
[00:51] <tomreyn> this will list repositories which are not part of ubuntu. one of them should be the "UbuntuStudio Backports PPA" (it may be listed differently, like "http://ppa.launchpad.net/UbuntuStudio/backports ...")
 this will list repositories which are not part of ubuntu. one of them should be the "UbuntuStudio Backports PPA" (it may be listed differently, like "http://ppa.launchpad.net/UbuntuStudio/backports ...")
[00:54] <Peter70> Crap. I lost the entire conversation because I hit Refresh trying to get that tab back. For some reason now I can't go back to that tab.
[00:54] <tomreyn> !irclogs
[00:55] <Peter70> Now I have the tab back. Now what?
[00:55] <Peter70> What am I looking for?
[00:55] <tomreyn> see what i quoted above
[00:56] <tomreyn> if you have any ticked, then before upgrading ubuntustudio, it'd be wise to use the "ppa-purge" utility to disable all of these
[00:56] <Peter70> This is weird. According to the command on the command line I'm running 18.04, but this says 16.04.
[00:56] <tomreyn> this can be an old leftover, it's probably not ticked, so not in use
[00:57] <Peter70> There are only two items ticked.
[00:57] <tomreyn> so less work to be done ;)
[00:57] <tomreyn> !ppa-purge
[00:58] <tomreyn> i don't really have followed your conversation, though, and don't really know what your plans are
[00:58] <Peter70> I don't know what they are. Let's see if I can type them, because copy and paste doesn't work on those.
[00:58] <tomreyn> you can take and post a screenshot
 He's trying to upgrade to Ubuntu 19.10 from 18.10 I believe.
[00:58] <Peter70> http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/vscode stable
[00:59] <Peter70> And
[00:59] <tomreyn> thanks Go_Diego_Go
[00:59] <Peter70> http://dl.google.com/linus/chrome/deb/stable
[00:59] <tomreyn> Peter70: ok. can you confirm what Go_Diego_Go said?
[00:59] <Peter70> Those are the two ticked items.
[01:00] <Peter70> I want to upgrade from whatever I'm running (16.04 or 18.04, whichever you believe) to 19.04.
[01:01] <tomreyn> what does    lsb_release -ds     report?
[01:01] <tomreyn> (run it in a terminal)
[01:01] <Peter70> Hang on.
[01:01] <Peter70> 18.04.04 LTS
[01:01] <Peter70> I mean .03 LTS
[01:02] <Peter70> 18.04.3 LTS.
[01:02] <tomreyn> 18.04.3 LTS  :)
[01:02] <Peter70> Yep.
[01:02] <Peter70> So do those two ticked items I quoted present a problem?
[01:03] <Peter70> I'm guessing not.
[01:03] <tomreyn> not strictly a problem, but it's safer to remove them if you'd like to improve your chances of a flawless upgrade
[01:03] <Peter70> Okay. How do I do that?
[01:04] <tomreyn> that is, remove them *and* aany packages you installed from them
[01:04] <Peter70> Don't know what that means. To me these are just items on a list.
[01:04] <tomreyn> are you familiar with package management, yet?
[01:04] <Peter70> Nope.
[01:05] <tomreyn> have you previously used a different operating syste, such as windows or apple Os?
[01:05] <Peter70> Windows until like 6 years ago.
[01:05] <tomreyn> or android on a phone or tab?
[01:05] <Peter70> Android on my phone.
[01:06] <tomreyn> and did you install addiditonal apps there?
[01:06] <tomreyn> *additional
[01:06] <Peter70> But with Android there's no package management unless you mean installing apps from Google Play.
[01:06] <Peter70> Yes, I'm installed apps.
[01:06] <Peter70> And I've added apps in Ubuntu. Lots of them.
[01:07] <tomreyn> that's what i mean, yes. the process of installing applications from a repository is what you can consider software package management
[01:07] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:07] <tomreyn> android and most other proprietory operating systems only have a single central repository where software is offered
[01:07] <Peter70> Right.
[01:07] <Peter70> Especially Apple.
[01:08] <tomreyn> for ubuntustudio and the other ubuntu flavors there are the 'main' repositories, but you have a lot more to choose from.
[01:08] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:08] <Peter70> From the terminal only, you mean?
[01:09] <tomreyn> they differ in which software they offer, which versions of this software, which ubuntu(studio) version they are compatible with, how (well) this software is maintained, which type of computer they can be used on (ignore this part for now)
[01:09] <Peter70> I follow you so far.
[01:11] <tomreyn> coming back to the Software & Updates window you're looing at: the first tab, "Ubuntu Software", lets you choose a few things to determine which ubuntu(studio) repositories are best for you, based on location and some of your preferences.
[01:11] <Peter70> I imagine you're about to tell me how this relates to removing PPAs.
[01:12] <tomreyn> the second tab lists software that is not supported by ubuntu(studio). either it is supported by someone else (the ubuntustudio-backports repository is actually maintained by the ubuntustudio project, so that's an exception to the rule)
[01:12] <Peter70> By the second tab you mean Other Software?
[01:12] <tomreyn> hehe, yes, all the ones ticked on the second tab you want to remove before upgrading
[01:12] <tomreyn> yes
[01:12] <Peter70> Gotcha.
[01:12] <tomreyn> and you dont just untick them, but you should do a bit more (sorry!)
[01:13] <Peter70> Since they're already ticked, do I just click Remove?
[01:13] <tomreyn> so back to the ppa-purge utility. you can install this using a software package manager
[01:13] <Peter70> And will my PC run temporarily without them?
[01:13] <Peter70> Wait--install? I thought I was going to REMOVE them.
[01:14] <tomreyn> you install one software. this software can be used to manage those "other software" repositories.
[01:14] <Peter70> Why not just click on Remove?
[01:14] <Peter70> It's so tempting.
[01:14] <tomreyn> it will identify software you installed from these non-supported repositories and uninstall or downgrade this software to versions which are supported.
[01:15] <tomreyn> once that's done, you have a safer, better tested upgrade path
[01:15] <Peter70> Okay. So back to Terminal and install ppa-purge?
[01:15] <tomreyn> you can freely choose what to do on your system. most people will just ignore what i'm just telling you and start the upgrade nevertheless.
[01:15] <Peter70> Well, I'm not most people.
[01:15] <tomreyn> and sometimes those upgrades fail
[01:15] <Peter70> I'm Anomalous Man.
[01:16] <Peter70> So how do I install ppa-purge?
[01:16] <tomreyn> so yes, you can    sudo apt update && sudo apt install ppa-purge
[01:16] <Peter70> Hang on a sec.
[01:16] <tomreyn> if you're more of a graphical interfaces person i can also show you another software you can use for the purpose of managing installed software
[01:17] <Peter70> Well, I am, but I've already started the process residing blatantly and conspicuously outside my comfort zone.
[01:17] <tomreyn> or take a note on it for later: synaptic
[01:17] <Peter70> It's running.
[01:18] <Peter70> Processing...
[01:18] <Peter70>  Done.
[01:18] <Peter70> Did that remove the PPAs?
[01:18] <Peter70> It doesn't make an announcement.
[01:19] <tomreyn> ahem, sorry, i made a mistake. ppa-purge can only be used to remove (and downgrade packages from) "http://ppa.launchpad.net/..." entries in "Other Software". What you have chosen to install is not that.
[01:19] <Peter70> WHAT?
[01:19] <tomreyn> but you can keep ppa-purge for later, you'll surely need it again at some point
[01:19] <Peter70> Did I purge anything or not?
[01:19] <Peter70> I can't tell.
[01:20] <tomreyn> no, you only installed one software package: ppa-purge
[01:20] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:20] <Peter70> So what do you suggest?
[01:20] <tomreyn> actually, if the above was the only output, then you didn't even do that
[01:20] <Peter70> I didn't tell you all the output. It's Greek to me.
[01:20] <tomreyn> ok
[01:21] <Peter70> Why can't I click on Remove?
[01:21] <tomreyn> so... long talk, but i guess you shuld just disable the tickboxes and remember to reactivate them later.
[01:21] <Peter70> Those two things are ticked.
[01:21] <Peter70> If I'm removing those two items, how can I reactivate them later? They'll be gone, right?
[01:22] <tomreyn> clicking on "remove" would fully remove the registration of a software repository off your system (it's not just disabled afterwards)
[01:22] <tomreyn> instead, just untick them
[01:22] <Peter70> Now you're talking over my head again. No idea what that meant.
[01:23] <Peter70> Unticking them doesn't remove them, right?
[01:23] <Peter70> I thought I need to remove them.
[01:23] <tomreyn> correct, unticking disables.
[01:23] <tomreyn> no, don't remove, you'll probably want to re-enable them after upgrading
[01:23] <Peter70> Then I completely misunderstood how this works.
[01:23] <Peter70> Okay, I"ll untick them.
[01:24] <tomreyn> then "close"
[01:24] <Peter70> Wait. I'm getting an intuitive danger signal here.
[01:24] <tomreyn> i can guide you through properly cleaning this up, but i won't be able to explain it
[01:24] <Peter70> If I untick those two items, and I making some kind of general change in where I get my software and updates?
[01:24] <Peter70> Am I. Not and I.
[01:25] <Peter70> I want to be very cautious about global policy changes.
[01:25] <tomreyn> by unticking those two third party software repositories (google and microsoft vscode) you have prevented the system from receiving software from there for now.
[01:25] <Peter70> And why would I need to make such a change just to remove PPAs?
[01:26] <Peter70> I think I should understand this rather than just follow instructions piecemeal.
[01:26] <Peter70> I understand that asking you to explain all this is asking too much.
[01:26] <tomreyn> so release upgrades from one ubuntu version to the next are tested before they are enabled for us users. but the tests are only done using standard ubuntu software, not with software from PPAs installed.
[01:26] <Peter70> So it's not you--it's me. My gut is telling me I should study up before attempting this.
[01:27] <tomreyn> sounds good to me, i like the approach.
[01:27] <Peter70> I'll be honest--I've understood 20 percent of the content you've given me that tries to explain how this works.
[01:27] <Peter70> So I'll thank you, Tom. You've been patient.
[01:27] <tomreyn> you didn't have a chance to spend enough time to reqad all of it also
[01:28] <Peter70> I read it. I didn't study it.
[01:28] <Peter70> I had nothing to relate it to.
[01:28] <Peter70> What's the best way to get up to speed on this?
[01:28] <Peter70> I mean other than 10 years of experimenting.
[01:29] <tomreyn> the best way is really experimenting, occasionally breaking things, getting help repairing them
[01:29] <Peter70> I have a strong intuition you didn't learn this stuff without reference materials.
[01:29] <tomreyn> or repairing yourself if you can ;)
[01:30] <tomreyn> certainly not without reference materials
[01:30] <Peter70> Then what? What did you use?
[01:30] <tomreyn> there is plenty of documtation. all the commands you can type on the terminal are documented in so-called "man pages"
[01:30] <tomreyn> !man
[01:30] <wxl> ohai. so i'm curious if anyone here has had experience with using deken. it seems like a good idea (package management always does) but who knows?
[01:31] <Peter70> Okay. That will get me started. Thanks again, Tom.
[01:31] <tomreyn> Peter70: but you want to get started exploring the graphical interface first. So maybe start here: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio
[01:31] <Peter70> The graphical interface for what?
[01:31] <tomreyn> Peter70: as a reminder, synaptic is the software you can install for software package management
[01:32] <Peter70> Okay.
[01:32] <tomreyn> the graphical interface of your computer ;)
[01:32] <tomreyn> anything that's not a black box with text ;)
[01:32] <Peter70> I've been using Ubuntu Studio for 7 years.
[01:32] <tomreyn> oh, ok
[01:32] <tomreyn> then i'm surprised you didn't work with the terminal more, yet
[01:33] <Peter70> I'm a surprising guy.
[01:33] <tomreyn> but i understand not everyone likes to
[01:33] <tomreyn> and thats fine
[01:33] <Peter70> Guess I was more mission-oriented than you.
[01:33] <tomreyn> after all there's both, the graphical and the text command world ;)
[01:33] <tomreyn> for sure!
[01:33] <Peter70> Right. I was into DOS back in the day.
[01:34] <Peter70> Wrote some impressive batch files.
[01:34] <Peter70> Just never got into it in Linux.
[01:34] <tomreyn> ah, nice, well then the terminal should not be difficult to get a grip on
[01:34] <Peter70> Once I put some time into it.
[01:34] <tomreyn> dos commands are a lot more insane than those on linux
[01:34] <Peter70> Well, that's encouraging.
[01:35] <tomreyn> like this config.sys highmen emm386 stuff which never made sense
[01:35] <Peter70> Yeah.
[01:35] <Peter70> Gotta run. Thanks again.
[01:35] <tomreyn> *most* commands on the linux shell are a lot more logical. See you!
[01:36] <tomreyn> You're welcome.
[01:37] <tomreyn> wxl: "deken"? i never heard of it, and not finding much on the web
[01:37] <tomreyn> ah https://puredata.info/downloads/deken
[01:37] <tomreyn> is this a non-dead project?
[01:38] <tomreyn> ah here we go https://github.com/pure-data/deken
[01:39] <tomreyn> uuh tcl
[01:39] <tomreyn> oh just the plugin, so it's python 2.x, i guess
[01:42] <tomreyn> and it's python 3, i got it wrong again
[01:55] <wxl> tomreyn: sorry, rl called. yeah, that's it. i haven't used pd in a while but i don't remember that from when i did. seems interesting is all.
[01:56] <tomreyn> yes, looks simple, and, for the limited degree i can tell, good.
[01:56] <wxl> not sure why it's not a standard part of any pd metapackage.
[01:57] <tomreyn> i never used / looked into PD really
[01:57] <wxl> oh man it's fun
[02:01] <wxl> i was listening to autechre today and they have made max/msp a core part of their production methods… and it's derived from pd
[02:01] <tomreyn> i just read so on wikipedia
[02:03] <tomreyn> i'm also not actually into making computer music at all ;)   but i can see how vidaul programming could be very useful to computer music folks.
[02:03] <tomreyn> *visual
[03:15] <studiobot> <Yana Suryana> How to dual boot in ubuntu and windows 100 secure boot
[03:21] <tomreyn> "windows 100"?
[03:21] <tomreyn> which ubuntu version and variant?
 hi Yana  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSVV_EoApdo
 Just got the notice that the 19.10 version is available, I should be able to upgrade without any major issues, right?
[15:15] <tomreyn> Go_Diego_Go: there's no guarantee that upgrades will succeed. they usually do, and you can improve the chances that they do, by making the system the upgrades start from one that is similar to those systems the upgrade was previously tested from.
[15:16] <tomreyn> i.a. purge all PPAs and the packages installed from there (use !ppa-purge), and do the same for third party reposiories (manually).
[15:17] <tomreyn> just disabling those repositories is insufficient to achieve this, since the software (and updated versions of software) from there will remain installed and can complicate matters for the apt resolver during upgrades.
[15:18] <tomreyn> apt-forktracer can https://github.com/tomreyn/scripts/#foreign_packages help you identify packages and package versions which should not be installed (or should be downgraded)
[15:31] <tomreyn> can -> and
[16:24] <Matt_u_zeneize> Hello, unfortunately, after my latest update (from ubuntustudio 19.04 to 19.10) I get some "delay" on the  monitor: some kind of fuzzy pixoels allover the screen, that makes it impossible to read anything for a few seconds. It didn't happen before. I am using a AMD GPU Ryzen 3 series I find no help in FAQ or community pages. Thank you for your
[16:24] <Matt_u_zeneize> advice
[16:31] <OvenWerks> does this also happen when you boot from the 19.10 iso into live mode? Have you done a software update since booting?
[16:33] <tomreyn> :-/
[16:40]  * OvenWerks didn't have time for a long conversation anyway...
 does this also happen when you boot from the 19.10 iso into live mode? Have you done a software update since booting?
[16:44] <tomreyn> Matt_u_zeneize: OvenWerks will need to leave soon, though, or maybe already did. I suggest looking for a bios upgrade. if it still happens then, come back and post your systemd journal (since the latest boot) to a pastebin, repeating the discussion of this problem.
[16:45] <tomreyn> journalctl -b | grep 'DMI:'    to get your current bios version and mainboard / computer model
[16:46] <tomreyn> i also got to leave for an hour or so now.
[16:48] <Matt_u_zeneize> thanks a lot! I'll do. P.S. I didn't try a live mode and I tried some updates, hoping to have some fitures, but without success. Bye


[00:06] <thumper> oh FFS...
[00:36]  * thumper takes the dog for a walk
[01:35] <davecheney> thumper: i'm coming around to your way of thinking that we should have unit tests in place
[01:35] <davecheney> to assert if we add extra transitive dependencies
[01:40] <thumper> :-)
[01:43] <davecheney> ericsnow: ping, https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1202
[01:43] <davecheney> its pretty easy to screw it up
[01:43] <davecheney> thumper: you said we had some tests in another package I could appropriate ?
[01:44] <thumper> davecheney: juju/osenv/package_test.go
[01:44] <davecheney> lucky(~/src/github.com/juju/juju/juju/osenv) %
[01:45] <davecheney> worst package name, ever
[01:46] <thumper> heh
[01:49] <davecheney> who wants to review this cheeky one ? https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1202
[01:54] <davecheney> why does jc.Contains not work in a sane way
[01:55] <davecheney> c.Assert([]string{"a","b","c"}, jc.Contains, "c")
[01:55] <davecheney> doesn't work
[01:55] <menn0> davecheney: did you ever figure out the issue with tests leaving behind lots of stuff in tmp?
[01:55] <menn0> davecheney: my merge run just broke because the disk was full
[01:55] <davecheney> menn0: yes
[01:55] <davecheney> i logged the issue
[01:55] <davecheney> it's very hard to fix
[01:55] <davecheney> short version
[01:56] <davecheney> the mongo suite thing that caches mongos between suites
[01:56] <davecheney> lacks a signal to say "tehre are no more suites, shut yourself down"
[01:56] <davecheney> so the last suite will finish
[01:56] <davecheney> the test process will exit
[01:56] <davecheney> and mongo will die because it's parent died
[01:57] <axw> davecheney: can we not just run the tests within a script with $TMPDIR set to something temporary, then rm -f $TMPDIR after the test run?
[01:57] <davecheney> but the merge failing on the bot is a differnt issue
[01:57] <davecheney> axw: maybe
[01:57] <davecheney> i haven't looked into fixing the issue
[01:57] <davecheney> i just cron up
[01:57] <axw> I think we used to do that with tarmac
[01:57] <davecheney> rm -rf /tmp/test-mgo*
[01:58] <axw> fair enough
[01:58] <davecheney> but that bot is made afresh on each test
[01:58] <davecheney> it shouldn't fill up
[01:58] <davecheney> because it is a new machine every time
[01:58] <axw> ah yeah
[01:58] <davecheney> the leak is ~43mb per pacakge
[01:58] <axw> nice
[01:58] <davecheney> i think it's possible to fix the leak
[01:58] <davecheney> but we'd have to push gc.Mkdir() right down intot he mongo testing suite
[01:59] <davecheney> but seriously, why is jc.Contains useless ?
[01:59] <davecheney> params_test.go:265: c.Assert(imports, gc.Not(jc.Contains), "state")
[01:59] <davecheney> ... obtained []string = []string{"cert", "constraints", "instance", "juju/arch", "mongo", "network", "replicaset", "rpc", "rpc/rpcreflect", "service/common", "service/upstart", "state/backups", "state/multiwatcher", "storage", "tools", "utils", "utils/ssh", "version"}
[01:59] <davecheney> ... expected string = "state"
[01:59] <davecheney> ... Obtained value is not a string and has no .String()
[02:05] <menn0> davecheney: this could help with mongo suite issue: https://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=8202
[02:06] <menn0> letting us run something at the end of the test run
[02:09] <davecheney> yes, it will be very useful
[02:16] <davecheney> menn0: but it means 1.4 everywhere
[02:16] <davecheney> which is basically impossible
[02:18] <menn0> davecheney: ok. I didn't look into which Go version this was part of.
[02:19] <jw4> names package update to reflect simpler UUID based Action ID's : PTAL https://github.com/juju/names/pull/32
[02:19]  * jw4 thought we'd rolled reviewboard out to the names package recently?
[02:21] <davecheney> menn0: the magic is baked into the test runner that the go tool generates during the build
[02:21] <davecheney> jw4: is rb watching that repo ?
[02:21] <davecheney> JYNX!
[02:21] <jw4> davecheney: I thought I saw ericsnow say something about that
[02:22] <menn0> davecheney: yep I realise that. just didn't know what version the feature had been added.
[02:24] <menn0> thumper: this canary environment stuff is working out pretty well. 100's of genuine test failures.
[02:24] <thumper> I guess that's good
[02:24] <menn0> thumper: i suspect the number of fixes required will actually be a lot smaller
[02:28] <davecheney> jw4: change looks ok
[02:28] <davecheney> i can't lgtm it
[02:28] <jw4> thanks davecheney
[02:28] <davecheney> i'm too scared of compatibility issues
[02:29] <jw4> davecheney: yeah, we're still skating on "no-one is using actions yet"
[02:29] <davecheney> menn0: canary environment ?
[02:29] <davecheney> jw4: someone else will have to make that call
[02:29] <jw4> davecheney: kk
[02:29] <jw4> fwereade_: ? ^^
[02:31] <menn0> davecheney: as discussed in standups, it's a fully-featured environment that gets created in ConnSuite.SetupTest designed to screw things up when we forget to filter by env UUID. The data for the canary env gets returned unexpectedly breaking tests.
[02:31] <menn0> davecheney: undecided if it will just stay there
[02:31] <menn0> davecheney: but it's useful for finding issues right now.
[02:37] <davecheney> ok
[02:37] <davecheney> +1 to destructive testing
[02:38] <menn0> davecheney, thumper: I'm just checking the performance hit that the canary environment incurs... not good
[02:38] <menn0> 40-50% on my machine
[02:39] <menn0> so it might not stay there
[02:39] <menn0> a more targetted approach might be required
[02:39]  * thumper nods
[02:53]  * thumper glares at wallyworld
[02:53] <wallyworld> wot
[02:53] <thumper> I shouldn't have been talked into fixing this damn bug
[02:53] <wallyworld> \o/
[03:01] <thumper> stabby stabby
[03:01] <thumper> well, the tests are doing the right thing
[03:01] <thumper> ...
[03:01] <thumper> finding bugs in my code
[03:09] <thumper> ok... I think I have this done now
[03:10] <thumper> gah...
[03:10]  * thumper enfixorates some more
[03:16] <thumper> davecheney: jc.Contains is for string in string
[03:16] <thumper> davecheney: not item in slice
[03:16] <thumper> davecheney: which I dearly would have liked to use earlier too
[03:16] <thumper> davecheney: I think it is poorly named
[03:16] <thumper> davecheney: you can blame me for that
[03:16] <davecheney> s'ok
[03:16] <davecheney> i found an example
[03:16] <davecheney> test is proposed
[03:19] <thumper> wallyworld, menn0: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/498/diff/
[03:19] <thumper> menno because you looked at it before
[03:19] <wallyworld> about time
[03:19] <thumper> wallyworld: because you made me do it
[03:20] <davecheney> just saw this fail, FAIL: upgrade_test.go:437: UpgradeSuite.TestLoginsDuringUpgrade
[03:24]  * thumper takes kids into town to get sushi
[03:31] <menn0> davecheney: can you get the details of the failure to me?
[03:32] <menn0> thumper-sushirun: looking
[03:33] <davecheney> menn0: sorry, closed the window
[03:34] <menn0> davecheney: np. was it on your machine?
[03:37] <davecheney> yeah
[03:43] <menn0> davecheney: there's another one in that suite that occasionally fails. I have a ticket for that.
[03:45] <davecheney> anyone ? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/512/
[03:45] <davecheney> i'd like to have the argument about names today
[03:45] <davecheney> rather than monday
[03:49] <davecheney> make that monday week
[03:49] <jw4> davecheney: which names argument?  DB interface?
[03:49] <axw> wallyworld: I answered my own question about Xen; it's a general thing, not EC2-specific
[03:49] <axw> so name is stable
[03:50] <davecheney> yup
[03:50] <davecheney> of course
[03:50] <wallyworld> ok
[03:50] <davecheney> if nobody cares about the name
[03:50] <davecheney> or nobody has the will to argue
[03:50] <davecheney> that is also fine
[03:50] <davecheney> but it is spelt DB with two spaces after it :)
[03:50] <jw4> davecheney: you had me til the two spaces
[03:50] <jw4> davecheney: now I'm feeling argumentative
[03:52]  * davecheney cracks knucles
[03:52] <jw4> ah; hate to dissapoint you - I was just joking - I like DB
[03:52] <jw4> ;)
[03:52] <davecheney> all the good names are taken, several times over
[03:52] <davecheney> environ, env, db, state
[03:52] <davecheney> one in every package
[03:52] <davecheney> at least
[03:53] <jw4> I know, just like John
[03:53] <davecheney> jw4: i'd be happy to name the interface John
[03:53] <jw4> (and Dave for that matter)
[03:53] <jw4> haha
[04:09]  * thumper finally submits the branch for master
[04:21] <menn0> anastasiamac: nice job on sorting out that bug
[04:55] <anastasiamac> menn0: thnx for finding it :-) it was gr8 fun to fix
[04:55]  * anastasiamac is kind of a fan of strict accessor/mutator separation.. :-p
[06:06] <wallyworld> axw: can i offer you a small one? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/516/
[06:07] <axw> looking
[06:11] <axw> wallyworld: lgtm
[06:11] <wallyworld> tyvm
[08:44] <mattyw> morning all
[08:56] <TheMue> morning
[09:18] <voidspace> morning all
[09:25] <TheMue> voidspace: o/
[09:50] <dimitern> morning mattyw, TheMue, voidspace
[09:51] <TheMue> dimitern: morning
[09:52] <mattyw> dimitern, TheMue voidspace morning
[09:52] <TheMue> mattyw: o/
[09:54] <voidspace> mattyw: o/
[09:54] <voidspace> dimitern: o/
[09:55] <mattyw> lots of people waving with their left hands - that's what I like to see
[09:55] <TheMue> mattyw: \o/
[09:57] <TheMue> mattyw: also there's no face, so maybe you see them from behind? ☺/
[09:58] <mattyw> TheMue, these are all good points
[09:58] <TheMue> mattyw: but best and most simple is to interpret it your way ;)
[10:41] <perrito666> morning
[12:08] <fwereade_> axw, ping
[12:09] <fwereade_> axw, I am looking at the charm storage changes
[12:11] <fwereade_> axw, it seems there is no way to ask where to download a charm from any more
[12:12] <fwereade_> axw, and so ISTM we have to depend on some funky magic whereby archive urls are always transformed versions of the charm urls in question
[12:37] <axw> fwereade_: who has no way to ask where to download from?
[12:37] <axw> the unit agent?
[12:37] <fwereade_> axw, yeah
[12:38]  * axw rolls back memory
[12:38] <fwereade_> axw, shouldn't the state server know where they can be downloaded from, and be able to tell the unit agent, rather than the unit agent inferring same?
[12:40] <axw> fwereade_: the problem I had with that was that the facades don't know anything about how they should be queried
[12:41] <fwereade_> axw, sorry, not quite following
[12:42] <axw> fwereade_: the API server is hosting the charm storage, right? how does it figure out the URL to send to the client?
[12:42] <fwereade_> axw, how does it figure out the URL to send to the client when new state servers are added? ;p
[12:43] <axw> fwereade_: the facade doesn't even know which address it should be contacted on - that's all at a higher level
[12:43] <axw> and the client knows what address it has connected to already
[12:44] <axw> we could do relative locations?
[12:45] <fwereade_> axw, I don't see why the facade needs to concern itself with that?
[12:46] <fwereade_> axw, IIRC what we used to do was ask the state server for the charm's archive URL
[12:46] <fwereade_> axw, we used to get that from state
[12:46] <fwereade_> axw, we also get things like lists of state server addresses over the api
[12:48] <axw> fwereade_: we could get a list of URLs (one for each API server), if that's what you're getting at?
[12:48] <axw> it seems a little counterproductive, since the API server is clearly up and available if it's responding to a request for URL... :)
[12:49] <fwereade_> axw, right, but it creates a distributed assumption about exactly where the charm server lives
[12:49] <fwereade_> axw, it's already moved once
[12:50] <axw> fair enough
[12:50] <fwereade_> axw, what long-term guarantees do we have that all state servers will always be charm servers, and will always use serve them on that path?
[12:50] <axw> fwereade_: it was my understanding that we'd always proxy through the API server
[12:51] <axw> I see your point though, it would be safer to tell the client
[12:51] <axw> also means other clients don't need that intelligence/stupidity recoded
[12:52] <fwereade_> axw, yeah
[12:52] <axw> I'll log a bug
[12:53] <fwereade_> axw, cheers -- do you reckon there's half a chance of getting it scheduled soonish?
[12:54] <axw> fwereade_: I'm happy to take a look early next week, could do with a rest from thinking about block devices
[12:54] <fwereade_> axw, awesome
[12:56] <axw> fwereade_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1394976
[12:56] <mup> Bug #1394976: api/uniter: Charm.ArchiveURL should query API server <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1394976>
[13:02] <axw> fwereade_: (just out of curiosity) is there really any rush? because it's just the uniter, there's not backwards compatibility issue? I mean, even if we changed the path at which we served the archives, it wouldn't be the end of the world if the uniter threw a few errors before upgrading
[13:02] <axw> is there another reason I'm missing?
[13:06] <fwereade_> axw, ehh, I wanted to patch out the api so I could do some proper testing in the uniter and got all angried up when I couldn't find an api call to patch
[13:08] <axw> fwereade_: fair enough :)
[13:08] <perrito666> katco: https://twitter.com/ShiroSirius/status/535515056528969728/photo/1
[13:09] <axw> fwereade_: in the two new workers I just landed for storage, they accept interfaces rather than an api/*.State struct
[13:09] <fwereade_> axw, there might not be that much rush though, I am strongly tempted to just write the api call I need anyway, definitely ping me before you start work on it ;)
[13:09] <axw> so I managed to write a worker without any API at all...
[13:09] <fwereade_> axw, that is awesome
[13:10] <axw> sure
[13:10] <fwereade_> axw, the uniter api is sadly a bit more involved and a bit harder to patch out -- *unless* I just write that method, because there are actually only 2 methods I need on it at the moment, and it's only the charm one that's awkward
[13:25] <perrito666> hey, can I, from juju client, know which of the state servers of an HA setup is the master?
[13:31] <fwereade_> perrito666, that's awesome
[13:31] <fwereade_> perrito666, http://imgur.com/uVWFN92
[13:31] <perrito666> heh seems to be a trend these days the coder barbie thing I just saw the one of emacs vs vim and cracked
[13:38] <fwereade_> perrito666, yeah, it's *awesome*, I've just spent 10 minutes looking at examples and laughing like a drain
[14:32] <perrito666> natefinch: ping?
[14:37] <natefinch> perrito666: sorry, gotta run a quick errand for my wife, mind if we move it later?
[14:37] <perrito666> np
[14:38] <perrito666> natefinch: actually I suddenly have to rush run an urgent one too
[15:03] <wwitzel3> ericsnow, perrito666, natefinch
[15:04] <natefinch> stupid friggin' chrome on utopic
[15:50] <natefinch> ahh crud, school thanksgiving party thing.. gotta leave in a few minutes.
[15:50] <natefinch> ericsnow: if you run out of things to do, look at output variables.  Should be pretty well spec'ed out
[15:50] <natefinch> ericsnow: I'll try to figure out how to split up GCE work, but not going to have time to do it now
[15:53] <ericsnow> natefinch: no worries
[16:11] <perrito666> fwereade_: voidspace I am reviewer next tue but Ill be on holiday, back on fri when you two are reviewers does any of you want to swap with me so we dont have a day with only one rev and I get to do some reviewing?
[16:18] <voidspace> perrito666: fine with me
[16:18] <perrito666> deal then :D
[16:19] <voidspace> perrito666: can you swap them in the calendar
[16:19] <perrito666> yup, on it
[16:21] <perrito666> voidspace: I created new events
[16:21] <perrito666> bc if I change those i seem to change the whole series
[16:21] <perrito666> which is not good
[16:21] <voidspace> perrito666: ah, right - thanks
[16:48] <ericsnow> perrito666: what where those two issues you brought up during standup? (something about filenames and archives)
[16:55] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[16:55] <dimitern> voidspace, pong
[16:55] <voidspace> dimitern: you said to look at the address collection
[16:56] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah?
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: I've been looking in the state package at the address stuff - that's mostly api server addesses
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: and in machine.go
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: the machine doc stores address info - is that what you meant?
[16:56] <dimitern> voidspace, it does but it shouldn't :)
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: I've also re-read the container addressability doc - and updated it a bit
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: heh
[16:56] <voidspace> dimitern: where is the address collection?
[16:57] <dimitern> voidspace, the idea is to have a separate addresses collection
[16:57] <voidspace> dimitern: I've tried grepping but failed
[16:57] <voidspace> dimitern: ah...
[16:57] <voidspace> dimitern: and have machine doc reference that
[16:57] <wwitzel3> fwereade_: *poke* need some of your time for the juju-run stuff I addresses
[16:57] <wwitzel3> addressed
[16:57] <dimitern> voidspace, which will contain "proofed", verified addresses linked properly to machines, subnets, etc.
[16:57] <voidspace> dimitern: right
[16:58] <dimitern> voidspace, ideally we'll drop the addresses from the machine doc at some point
[16:58] <fwereade_> wwitzel3, oh *hell* sorry
[16:58] <dimitern> voidspace, even now the addresses there are considered incomplete, plain wrong or unusable
[16:58] <wwitzel3> fwereade_: no trouble, you told me you'd forget and I would have to poke you today :)
[16:58] <voidspace> dimitern: hah, wonderful
[16:59] <dimitern> voidspace, :)
[16:59] <dimitern> voidspace, we'll fix that as we go
[17:00] <voidspace> dimitern: will the new address collection just be used for where we're managing addresses (ec2 with default vpc and maas)?
[17:00] <voidspace> so just for the new stuff
[17:01] <dimitern> voidspace, if you have a look at the older network model doc (the one with more details like the state docs and fields) there are some pointers what we need
[17:01] <voidspace> dimitern: cool, thanks
[17:01] <voidspace> I have that starr3ed
[17:01] <voidspace> *starred even
[17:01] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah - it should contain only addresses we know and can match (or manage)
[17:02] <voidspace> dimitern: "Juju networking model specification"
[17:03] <dimitern> voidspace, but please keep in mind that doc is a bit obsolete now by the "phase 1" model (i.e. compare the statements/assumptions in the old doc with the similar ones in the new model)
[17:03] <voidspace> dimitern: sure, I've just read that so its fresh
[17:03] <dimitern> voidspace, that's the one I think - it should say it's a low level tech spec
[17:04] <voidspace> dimitern: actually this one says "This document presents a high-level draft specification for discussion and approval."
[17:04] <dimitern> voidspace, hmm, so not this one, just a sec..
[17:04] <voidspace> dimitern: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1UzJosV7M3hjRaro3ot7iPXFF9jGe2Rym4lJkeO90-Uo/edit#heading=h.a92u8jdqcrto
[17:05] <voidspace> oops
[17:05] <voidspace> not that one
[17:05] <voidspace> https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/11KbAnVWf8GBJYznOEpzqSRxY7Os7FQSL9huIt1hq1Ao/edit#
[17:05] <voidspace> This one
[17:05] <dimitern> yeah
[17:05] <dimitern> no
[17:05] <dimitern> :)
[17:06] <voidspace>  so, uhm... which one?
[17:06] <dimitern> I've sent you a link in a pm
[17:07] <voidspace> ah!
[17:18] <fwereade_> wwitzel3, that's only a hair away from a ship-it-with-trivials, just explain why my suggestion for keeping the old form of newRelationIdValue is dumb
[17:33] <wwitzel3> fwereade_: yeah, so the way f.Var works internally, you must assign the value to the exact same pointer, if you want the flags to stack in the help output, e.g. -r, --relation
[17:37] <jw4> fwereade_: params.Entites use string for the Tag type instead of names.Tag
[17:38] <sinzui> Anyone, everyone there is an issue with 1.20.12 :( https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1395081 relates to a change in https://launchpad.net/juju-core/+milestone/1.20.12 that we need to identify quickly
[17:38] <mup> Bug #1395081: 1.20.12 breaks neutron-gateway, since all interfaces are brought up <cloud-installer> <landscape> <juju-core:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395081>
[17:42] <jw4> fwereade_: can I make a params.Tags struct that is strongly typed?
[18:01] <jw4> fwereade_: fwiw, we already have a params.Tags type which we're using elsewhere
[18:34] <voidspace> happy weekend everyone
[18:35] <voidspace> g'night all
[18:38] <dimitern> wwitzel3, natefinch, perrito666, guys, urgent bug fix review - who can have a look? http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/518/
[18:38] <dimitern> the bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1395081
[18:38] <mup> Bug #1395081: 1.20.12 breaks neutron-gateway, since all interfaces are brought up <cloud-installer> <landscape> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395081>
[18:39] <natefinch> looking
[18:39] <natefinch> are there side effects to us *not* bringing these up?
[18:40] <dimitern> natefinch, not really - if anything it was messing up maas environments for is
[18:40] <perrito666> dimitern: looks a lot like you are reverting or partially reverting a patch, could you add a reference to it in the commit?
[18:41] <dimitern> natefinch, and it's really *my bad*, because I backported that from trunk, but accidentally changed the behavior between 1.20.11 and 1.20.12
[18:41] <dimitern> perrito666, it's not a complete revert, it's just dropping some code which was the source of the issue - this code is already gone in more recent versions
[18:44] <dimitern> perrito666, updated the PR to include a link to the PR that changed that part of the code most recently
[18:44] <natefinch> cool
[18:45] <natefinch> dimitern: LGTM'd
[18:46] <dimitern> natefinch, thanks! and I've just confirmed it with the live test
[18:52] <bac> marcoceppi: you still going to do an amulet release today?
[18:53] <marcoceppi> bac: yes
[18:53] <bac> yay
[19:28] <fwereade_> jw4, don't tags get sent over the wire as strings anyway?
[19:29] <fwereade_> jw4, and don't we have to do manual stuff at the other end to turn them back into the right sort of tags anyway?
[19:58] <mgz> how do I set the log level of root to be debug rather than having that override up to warning that happens now?
[19:58] <mgz> I am failing to find this documented anywhere
[20:04] <natefinch> I think thumper is the only one who understands loggo
[20:05] <mgz> ...someone must have needed to debug juju at some point though,,,
[20:05] <mgz> I've not done it since that change, and I am currently going insane
[20:12] <perrito666> how considerate, x crashed
[20:13] <natefinch> mgz: I think juju set-environment logging-config "root=DEBUG"
[20:13] <natefinch> mgz: unless someone invalidated juju help logging
[20:14] <natefinch> which is entirely possible given our history of keeping the help up to date
[20:15] <mgz> natefinch: ta, seems we also have a logging-config thing to go in environments.yaml as well now?
[20:16] <natefinch> mgz: I think anything you can set with set-environment can be set in environments.yaml ... not that we actually have either documented anywhere
[20:32] <katco> if anyone wants to know more about the new leadership/lease services: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/519/
[20:46] <natefinch> finally uploaded all my music to google music... I'd forgotten how much I like listening to music while I hack
[21:09] <jw4> fwereade_: we can discuss - but the short answer is no, it doesn't have to be that way
[21:14] <fwereade_> jw4, ahh, a TagSlice with a SetJSON or something? nice
[21:14] <fwereade_> jw4, I guess we'd need an InvalidTag type or something though?
[21:16] <jw4> fwereade_: what I found with the ActionTags (before I knew we were 'supposed' to convert to string before using) is that the reason they had trouble serializing was because the fields were private
[21:16] <fwereade_> jw4, ah yes
[21:16] <jw4> fwereade_: if we accept public fields then they serialize just fine
[21:16] <fwereade_> jw4, right, but we want them to be actual strings
[21:17] <fwereade_> jw4, over the wire
[21:17] <jw4> fwereade_: how come? (They all implement String() fwiw)
[21:17] <fwereade_> jw4, I have no interest in forcing that sort of structure on every client
[21:17] <jw4> fwereade_: I see
[21:17] <fwereade_> jw4, and I want people to be able to do things like use them as map keys
[21:18] <jw4> fwereade_: you mean in other client languages, or does Go not allow that either?
[21:18]  * jw4 goes to check
[21:19] <fwereade_> jw4, in general, but specifically in python I guess
[21:19] <fwereade_> jw4, seriously, a tag over the API is a string
[21:19] <fwereade_> jw4, smarter representations in go? awesome
[21:20] <fwereade_> jw4, subverting the deliberately trivial wire-format representation of an entity? not so much ;)
[21:20] <jw4> fwereade_: lol
[21:21] <jw4> fwereade_: okay - so in the params types should we not be using names.Tag or names.*Tag ?
[21:22] <fwereade_> jw4, yeah
[21:22] <fwereade_> jw4, and, hmm, you shouldn't be using charm.Actions either, I think
[21:23] <fwereade_> jw4, params has the same forces in play as internal state stuff does
[21:23] <fwereade_> jw4, if we use types from other packages, we allow changes to those other packages to magically change our wire format/db format
[21:23] <jw4> fwereade_: yeah - I remember that discussion
[21:23] <jw4> fwereade_: good point
[21:25]  * fwereade_ looks at the rest of apiserver/params and starts swearing
[21:25] <natefinch> dude, seriously?:    No more.
[21:27] <jw4> hehe
[21:27] <jw4> unless it's after a full stop?
[21:27] <natefinch>  (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)
[21:28] <jw4> haha
[21:28] <jw4> katco: your code is delightful to read
[21:28] <natefinch> katco: I think he wants something ;)
[21:28] <katco> haha
[21:28] <jw4> haha
[21:29] <katco> jw4: thank you so much... that's probably the highest compliment someone could give me
[21:29] <jw4> I just appreciate clean well laid out, well named, elegantly flowing code
[21:29]  * katco beams
[21:29] <jw4> now, do you think you could help me out with something katco ?
[21:29]  * jw4 is kidding
[21:29] <katco> rofl
[21:30] <jw4> about the last line not the prior two
[21:30] <katco> i got it ;)
[21:43] <natefinch> wow... environs.Environ is an interface with 18(!) methods on it.  Sad gopher is sad.
[22:01] <natefinch> happy weekend all
[23:21] <jw4> katco: do you want to write the Actions spec?
[23:35] <katco> jw4: i don't know, i think there are other plans for me
[23:36] <jw4> katco: I don't know what the emoticon is for tongue-in-cheek, but I couldn't help contrasting Leadership Spec with the Actions Spec
[23:36] <katco> oh lol
[23:36] <katco> fwiw i use ":p"
[23:37] <jw4> katco: that makes sense - I think of that as tongue sticking out, but that's probably more like it
[23:38] <katco> oh no you're right
[23:38] <katco> but that's for when i'm feeling cheeky :)
[23:38] <jw4> hehe
[23:38] <jw4> :-J
[23:39] <katco> lol there you go


[03:16] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[09:39] <ogra> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9oDHGPBlwo
[09:42] <ogra> (lovely work from the canonical marketing dept.)
[10:33] <ravage> maybe they can come up with a better title for the video
[10:33] <ravage> "English" is correct but a little vague
[10:38] <ravage> but the video itself is really nice
[10:43] <ogra> i guess you could leave a comment there with suggestions


[10:13] <fabiomaca> morning!!!!
[10:15] <czajkowski> aloha
[10:16] <tdr112> morning all
[12:06] <czajkowski> hows folks?
[12:06] <czajkowski> tdr112: any more conferences youre going to ?
[12:07] <tdr112> makerfaire UK,
[12:07] <tdr112> going to india for 3 weeks in may
[12:10] <czajkowski> oh wow
[12:10] <czajkowski> why ?
[12:10] <tdr112> wedding
[12:10] <czajkowski> try and not get sick :)
[12:11] <tdr112> hmm I hope not as 2 days after I come back I have another wedding to go too
[12:22] <ebel> tdr112: wow cool.
[12:22] <ebel> I've never been to india.
[12:22] <ebel> you might sick when you're over there.
[12:23] <ebel> 3 weeks is a decent amount of time to go for
[12:24] <czajkowski> just try and only use bottled water
[12:25] <ebel> Yep. Peel or boil everything
[12:25] <ebel> and bring immodium
[12:25] <czajkowski> lots of it
[12:26] <czajkowski> dad ended up in hospital there for a week
[12:26] <ebel> yeah, you have to be careful with dehydration if it'll be hot there
[12:26] <ebel> just drink lots of water, all the time
[12:28] <czajkowski> and always check the seal of the bottle
[12:39] <ebel> yep
[12:52] <tdr112> hmm , lots to weary of
[12:53] <czajkowski> tdr112: do you have to get any jabs going out there?
[12:54] <tdr112> I have not looked into any of these things, just made the mind up to go over the weekend
[13:03] <ebel> you'll probably get a few shots.
[13:04] <ebel> i don't think it's a malarial region, is it?
[13:04] <ebel> tdr112: you can have fun with squat toilets :P
[13:04] <ebel> bring some Dioralyte. it's basically salt that you mix with water and drink the foul stuff down.
[13:04] <ebel> it's for dehydration
[13:05] <ebel> over the counter in a pharmacy. Tis good if you get sick and then dehydrated
[13:31] <tdr112> added all these to a list, reading lonely planet now
[13:32] <zmoylan> http://www.webmd.com/vaccines/vaccines-for-travel-to-india


[00:00]  * wgrant points out that XChat is a bug.
[00:02] <joh> If I'd like more than one maintainer of my project, do I have to create a team?
[00:02] <poolie> joh, yes
[00:03] <joh> poolie: Ok, thanks
[01:34] <jdrake> Does anyone else have trouble with launchpad being a bit slow?
[01:43] <matsubara> jdrake: any page in particular or generally?
[01:43] <jdrake> generally
[01:44] <jdrake> Doing anything seems to be delayed quite a bit, say from 5 to 10 seconds per change.
[01:45] <matsubara> jdrake: it feels slow to me in general, but I'm in Brazil, some latency and slowness expected due to crap ISP. I heard similar complains from Australia and China.
[01:45] <jdrake> I am in southern canada
[01:47] <RAOF> There's the trans-Atlantic latency problem, exacebated by https for you then.
[01:47] <RAOF> Also, launchpad is, in general, not the fastest website on the intertubes.
[01:48] <matsubara> jdrake: just heard from one of the sysadmins that some of our hardware is very busy at the moment doing system stuff and should be back to normal operation real soon.
[01:49] <jdrake> matsubara, I have had this at different times of day
[01:50] <matsubara> jdrake: ok, just checking that's not a something right nowish as opposed to other days
[01:51] <jdrake> bzr is a great introduction to version control, first time I have really enjoyed running the commands
[02:11] <Hobbsee> OOPS-1006EB13
[02:12] <Hobbsee> kiko: ah ha!  6 is the highest number of packages you can accept concurrently now!  Much better than 1!
[02:13] <matsubara> Hobbsee: hi
[02:13] <Hobbsee> matsubara: hey there!
[02:13] <Hobbsee> matsubara: how's it going?
[02:13] <matsubara> Hobbsee: oops is not available yet. I'll check that one in 10 min
[02:14] <Hobbsee> matsubara: cool, thanks :)
[02:14] <matsubara> Hobbsee: pretty good. you?
[02:14] <Hobbsee> matsubara: yeah, pretty good.  Fixing bugs, doing assignments, etc. :)
[02:15] <matsubara> Hobbsee: usual busy day. great :-)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:25] <matsubara> Hobbsee: do you consistently get that timeout?
[02:25] <Hobbsee> matsubara: for anything over 6 packages, yes.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> matsubara: i had some timeouts for 8 packages yesterday
[02:26] <mwhudson> that's a lot of queries
[02:28] <matsubara> yeah
[02:28] <matsubara> Hobbsee: I'll ask one of the soyuz guys to take a look at this tomorrow.
[02:28] <Hobbsee> matsubara: cool, OK.  At this point, it'll just need to be fixed by next ubuntu alpha 5 or so, so it can be tested so it works for beta, I expect.
[02:30] <matsubara> Hobbsee: just to be sure, you were accepting uploads on that page right? (the UI looks different to me as I don't have the same permissions)
[02:30] <Hobbsee> matsubara: ye
[02:30] <Hobbsee> s
[02:30] <matsubara> okie. thanks Hobbsee
[02:30] <Hobbsee> matsubara: rejections have never had any problems.  You're welcome
[02:39] <_MMA_> Who do I talk to about breaking a lock?
[02:39] <wgrant> _MMA_: Ask bzr break-lock nicely.
[02:39] <_MMA_> It continues to spit in my face.
[02:39] <spiv> _MMA_: "bzr break-lock BRANCH_URL"
[02:40] <spiv> _MMA_: ignore the URL in the error message, use the URL you normally use to access the branch
[02:40]  * _MMA_ tries
[02:41] <spiv> (The bug for the misleading error message is https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/255062)
[02:41] <_MMA_> spiv: Ahh... Thank you oh wise one. Fixed me right up.
[02:42] <spiv> You're welcome.
[03:28] <mtaylor> so, the "Queue branch for merging" interface seems to imply that launchpad will do the merge at some point... is that correct?
[03:30] <beuno> mtaylor, kinda
[03:30] <beuno> it will integrate with something that will  :)
[03:31] <wgrant> Mmm. PQM.
[03:33] <mtaylor> hehehe
[03:33] <mtaylor> so, as of right now, the fact that I queued something gets me nowhere?
[03:34] <beuno> well, you learned something  :)
[03:34] <RAOF> Ooh.  Will we get a PQM setup as a part of launchpad code at some point?  Awesome.
[03:34] <mtaylor> beuno: as long as I learned something...
[03:35] <wgrant> I don't see how Launchpad can host other projects' PQM instances.
[03:35] <beuno> RAOF, yeap
[03:35] <beuno> wgrant, we do!  ;)
[03:36] <RAOF> beuno: Sweet!
[03:36] <wgrant> beuno: You'd have to run other code...
[03:36] <wgrant> But I guess you can do like the PPA buildds...
[04:31] <thumper> mtaylor: queue branch for merging is going away shortly
[04:31] <thumper> mtaylor: only to reappear in a different dress when I land my merge queue loom
[04:32] <thumper> RAOF: yes I'm also working on PQM to get it to talk via launchpadlib to LP for queue management
[04:32] <thumper> coming to a launchpad near you RSN
[04:32] <thumper> which hopefully means before the end of the year
[04:32] <mtaylor> thumper: awesome
[04:32] <thumper> mtaylor: also the entire code review process is undergoing a workflow shift
[04:33] <thumper> mtaylor: my work with beuno has produced some slick changes
[04:33] <thumper> it is being reviewed as we speak
[04:37] <jml> is it?
[04:37] <thumper> jml: is what?
[04:37] <RAOF> Excellent.  We've been having a "how should we commit to trunk" discussion in the GNOME Do project recently.  Having a PQM available would be handy :).
[04:37] <thumper> jml: I'm doing some PQM stuff in the evening
[04:38] <spiv> RAOF: "carefully" ;)
[04:38] <thumper> jml: most of the actual queue work is done
[04:38] <thumper> jml: but requires some rework as we discussed
[04:38] <thumper> jml: but the actual effort is not that huge
[04:38] <RAOF> spiv: :P
[04:38] <jml> thumper: oh ok, I just hoped you weren't waiting on a review from me
[04:39] <thumper> jml: a follow up to rockstar's perhaps
[04:56] <rockstar> jml, yea, there was a second one from me
[04:56] <jml> rockstar: ok. that one's waiting until after lunch.
[05:45] <LifeIsPain> A question about merging accounts: lifeispain had been created when importing bugs from inkscape, and I just now created idontlikespam, but I would prefer to be listed as lifeispain (even if I don't use launchpad as regularly as some of you). When I click to merge the accounts, it says to be logged into the one I want to keep
[05:45] <LifeIsPain> however, I would want to keep the account name of "lifeispain", do I need to merge, and then rename after the merge?
[05:54] <LifeIsPain> huhm, claim worked, I should have looked for a way to do that first
[08:02] <snaggen> Hi, any vcs-import people here? Have question about svn import to launchpad
[08:09] <lifeless> snaggen: the launchpad-bazaar project on launchpad, ask a question on it
[10:45] <hathiwala> i m developing software in gambas but i dont know control use for date
[10:46] <hathiwala> can i have idea about this
[10:46] <wgrant> hathiwala: This is the channel for Launchpad, not Gambas.
[12:31] <Rafik> hello all. just wanted to know if there is/was a talk about translating launchpad itself
[12:36] <Rafik> bug #3896
[14:06] <MvG> Hi! I've got a bunch of related projects that are likely to be merged into one project at some point in the future. I'd like to register them with launchpad now.
[14:06] <MvG> I guess I'd have one super project for the whole thing, and the subprojects all marked as parts of this. Do I register a super project in the normal way, or is there some special procedure for them?
[14:07] <beuno> MvG, you have to request it via answers:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[14:08] <MvG> beuno: Thanks. A notice to that effect on the project registration page would be useful...
[14:09] <beuno> MvG, agreed. Care to file a bug for that?
[14:09] <MvG> Will do.
[14:09] <beuno> thanks  :)
[14:09] <MvG> Do you have an idea if it would be possible to turn the super-project into a software project in its own right at a later point in time? Would influence naming.
[14:10] <beuno> what do you mean by "software project"?
[14:11] <MvG> I mean, have everything that a normal project has associated with it, not only child projects.
[14:12] <beuno> code, bugs, etc?
[14:12] <MvG> Yes.
[14:12] <MvG> I just found out, e.g., that I can't file a bug for "mozilla", only for its sub projects.
[14:13] <beuno> sure, it can have code on its own
[14:13] <MvG> Is this due to bughs being disabled for mozilla per project configuration, or due to the fact that super projects can't have bugs for themselves?
[14:13] <beuno> (or bugs, or answers...)
[14:13] <beuno> due to the fact that they disabled it
[14:13] <MvG> Thanks.
[14:14] <beuno> ah, wait a sec...
[14:14] <beuno> maybe I'm wrong
[14:14] <beuno> oh, I think I am  :)
[14:14] <beuno> kiko_, poke
[14:14] <wgrant> beuno: Project groups can't have code, bugs, answers.
[14:15] <wgrant> Nor blueprints.
[14:15] <matsubara> super projects can't have bugs, code, etc and can't be turned into regular projects
[14:15] <beuno> there ya go
[14:15] <beuno> I was looking in the wrong place  :)
[14:15] <MvG> Thanks also for that.
[14:15] <matsubara> but yes, we can free up the name in case you need it later
[14:15] <kiko_> beuno, sorry
[14:15] <beuno> MvG, what you can do, is register a project with the actual name, and make the super-project something different
[14:16] <kiko> MvG, what project are you asking for?
[14:16] <MvG> I guess I could also leave them unrelated for the time being. There is not so much to be gained from the super projects for me, I think.
[14:17] <MvG> So far it's a small set of java applications for drawing ornaments. Two developers so far, but I'd wish for it to grow.
[15:03] <mpt> jcastro, what do the "Δ" columns mean?
[15:04] <jcastro> mpt: the delta, possible targets
[15:04] <jcastro> mpt: that will change, kind of a stupid label
[15:04] <mpt> jcastro, the delta of what?
[15:04] <mpt> (I know it's a delta symbol:-)
[15:05] <jcastro> so if there are 100 open bugs and 90 are marked upstream the 10 left over are the delta
[15:06] <jcastro> for the watch column, it's basically bugs that have been marked upstreamable but NOT linked.
[15:06] <mpt> jcastro, by "upstreamable" do you mean they are registered as occurring in the upstream project?
[15:06] <jcastro> so somewhere in the process someone determined it was upstreamable, so then we look at that last number to find possible targets for bug days, etc.
[15:06] <jcastro> right, an open upstream task in launchpad
[15:07] <jcastro> "also affects"
[15:07] <mpt> ok
[15:07] <mpt> thanks
[15:07]  * kiko thwacks jcastro over the "stupid label" comment
[15:07] <kiko> not only do you get all the lwn cred, but you now call my labels stupid in public!!!
[15:07]  * kiko grins
[15:07] <mpt> kiko, easy solution, don't admit it's your label ;-)
[15:07] <jcastro> let me rephrase
[15:07] <kiko> jcastro, congratulations on the posting
[15:08] <kiko> I'm joking obviously
[15:08] <jcastro> "At the time we didn't know what use case that was going to be for so kiko just called it a delta."
[15:08] <jcastro> I am unsure what to call it now
[15:08] <jcastro> I've been thinking "targets"
[15:08] <mpt> Would "Needs linking" be accurate?
[15:08] <jcastro> yes and no, they're just possibles, it's not 100% that you would link it
[15:09] <kiko> well, the delta is in fact the difference between the ideal and the current
[15:09] <kiko> i.e. what needs doing
[15:09] <jcastro> they still need to be reviewed by a person.
[15:09] <jcastro> and since this is a new "view" on people's bugs there's some old ones in there that are being triaged out, etc.
[15:09] <mpt> Ah, because Launchpad doesn't yet have a canonical way of saying "No, this bug doesn't occur upstream"
[15:09] <jcastro> kiko: the lwn thing opened up a chance to mention the bugzilla/trac plugin, which I thought was nice
[15:10] <jcastro> mpt: and also sometimes people think it's upstream but it might not be.
[15:10] <jcastro> sometimes it might involve invalidating a link
[15:10] <kiko> jcastro, yeah, and in fact somebody yesterday asked about it
[15:10] <jcastro> but generally speaking it's a list of targetable linkables
[15:10] <jcastro> before the OOo bug day it had 72 targets
[15:10] <jcastro> we got that down to 44
[15:11] <jcastro> so that's ~30 some bugs forwarded that day, which isn't a bad start
[15:11] <jcastro> considering that making a new bug upstream and linking is pretty time consuming
[15:28]  * mpt finds an oops :-]
[15:45] <kiko> jcastro, that's a fantastic result
[15:46] <kiko> jcastro, now, to make it a reproducible part of our community process
[15:46] <kiko> but woo, that's such a cool thing
[15:47] <jcastro> kiko: yeah, we just need to "catch up" projects that are at the bottom of the list. Which is one thing the report is good at finding out. :D
[15:47] <wgrant> jcastro: The things at the bottom of the list are ten thousand packages below the bottom of the visible one...
[15:48] <jcastro> wgrant: yes, but right now the top 100 packages by open bugs seems a good place to start.
[15:48] <wgrant> jcastro: Quite likely.
[15:49] <jcastro> eventually one will just be able to query any package and get a result
[15:49] <wgrant> Which eventually?
[15:49] <jcastro> we would need to write that feature in obviously
[15:50] <jcastro> so you can type in any package in the archive and get it's linkage numbers
[15:51] <wgrant> Right. That would work well on a project-style Bugs index.
[15:51] <wgrant> Which SPs don't have. :(
[17:11] <kiko> zooko, ping
[17:25] <zooko> kiko: pong!
[17:25] <zooko> But I'm about to take off for a while.
[17:25] <kiko> zooko! I spoke to gmb and we figured out that that the comment was a red herring, that config block applies to all versions
[17:26] <zooko> Okay, thanks!
[17:26] <zooko> I've got it hooked up to http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe now.
[17:26] <zooko> But I think it is waiting for the launchpad end to turn on and/or for someone to update a ticket which is linked to my trac.
[17:29] <zooko> So, I guess the next step is for people who hack on launchpad to download and install Tahoe and try it out and report bugs.  :-)
[18:29] <XiXaQ> hello everyone. I'm looking at a project, and I'm trying to find out if it has a repository, PPA? It's this project: https://launchpad.net/genesis-sync
[18:29] <XiXaQ> how can I find out if it has one? There are packages there for download.
[18:30] <XiXaQ> oh. I don't think there are any debs when I look closer.
[18:32] <Ursinha> hi XiXaQ, let me see
[18:33] <Ursinha> there are no packages indeed
[18:39] <Ursinha> XiXaQ, PPA's are always related to people, not projects directly, but the owner of this project doesn't seem to have deb packages on his PPA
[18:39] <XiXaQ> oh, I see.
[18:42] <Ursinha> XiXaQ, you can ask the owner if somebody is working on it, the project seems to have some contributors
[18:42] <XiXaQ> yes, I'll do that.
[18:43] <XiXaQ> so then, a project cannot have its own repository on launchpad?
[18:44] <kiko> XiXaQ, well, what do you mean by "a project"?
[18:44] <kiko> XiXaQ, a team of people can have a repository
[18:45] <kiko> and the project can link to it in its homepage, as launchpad.net/bzr does
[18:45] <XiXaQ> oh, ok.
[18:46] <kiko> XiXaQ, in this case you can also search through PPAs here:
[18:46] <kiko> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[18:46] <XiXaQ> cool :)
[18:46] <XiXaQ> thanks.
[18:47] <kiko> XiXaQ, put the package name you want in there and see if the hits come up :)
[18:48] <XiXaQ> that was great! Thank you :)
[18:56] <kiko> XiXaQ, sure thing -- did you find a package in a PPA?
[18:57] <XiXaQ> no :(
[18:57] <kiko> XiXaQ, why don't you write to frederik?
[18:57] <XiXaQ> I will :)
[18:57] <kiko> ask him if he can one going
[18:57] <kiko> cool, let me know if he needs help
[18:57] <XiXaQ> nice of you to offer. I'll tell him.
[19:02] <XiXaQ> both SyncEvolution and Genesis seems like really cool software. It doesn't work though, but that might simply be a pebcac :)
[19:02] <XiXaQ> hope they'll be installed by default in Ubuntu when it's stable.
[19:02] <Ursinha> :)
[19:04] <XiXaQ> syncing your cellphone with evolution should be something that most users want.
[19:04] <XiXaQ> and http://my.funambol.com is a brilliant service!
[19:04] <kiko> XiXaQ, and msynctool is the weirdest commandline tool ever
[19:05] <XiXaQ> I don't know that one.
[19:05] <kiko> it does cellphone to evo syncs
[19:05] <kiko> you should try it out
[19:05] <XiXaQ> oh, ok.
[19:05] <kiko> but beware
[22:58] <persia> Is it a bug if I, as a non-beta-tester am getting links to edge from LP-generated mail?
[22:59] <beuno> should be, yes
[22:59] <persia> OK.  I'll file it then.
[22:59] <persia> Separately, I've asked a question, and been given an answer that the problem that causes my question cannot be solved.
[23:00] <beuno> maps?
[23:00] <beuno> location, etc?
[23:00] <persia> Neither of "Problem Solved" or "I Still Need an Answer" is correct.  Any suggestions for how to close the question?
[23:00] <persia> Yes, but the nature of the question isn't the issue :)
[23:01] <beuno> right, I'd say mark it as solved, as long as bugs where filed to fix the underlying problem
[23:01] <persia> OK.  I don't like the implied semantics of that, but that's another issue.
[23:01] <beuno> well, you could insist on trying to get your specific case fixed
[23:02] <beuno> ie, your location reset
[23:03] <persia> Is that even possible?  I was advised that it wasn't possible at all, which I guessed to be due to some lazily enforced constraint in the DB that would prevent a reset to null.
[23:03] <persia> I was planning to just move to a pole, and set my timezone as a workaround.
[23:05] <beuno> I don't really know if it's possible or not, but unless it will really make a difference, I'd say being located in a pole is really cool (?)
[23:05]  * wgrant puts persia somewhere else.
[23:05] <persia> Yeah, but it's wrong.  I prefer to be vague, but I don't like being wrong.
[23:06]  * wgrant wonders why the attributes are read-only anyway.
[23:06] <wgrant> It seems pretty useless and wrong.
[23:06] <persia> WIth the map tool as it exists, I can actually pinpoint myself within a meter, which is part of what bothers me about it.
[23:06] <beuno> you could be vague, I was when I set it
[23:06] <persia> beuno: No.  You can't be vague.  You can only be wrong.
[23:06] <beuno> just set it to the geographical center of the city
[23:07] <persia> Right, which is deliberately incorrect.
[23:07] <persia> I have no real desire to lie (which is why I set my location somewhere fairly random, and appreciate that it has since been moved)
[23:08] <persia> I just don't want to show the location precisely enough that one can look at my laundry.
[23:09] <kiko> persia, in practice, it's pretty much the same. me, I am still waiting for the stalkers to show up here
[23:10] <persia> kiko: What?  How is it the same?  In the one case, I provided *incorrect* information.  In the other case, I simply didn't provide enough information.
[23:10] <kiko> persia, well, it's an imprecision. and yeah, but what's the practical consequence of that imprecision?
[23:11] <persia> Someone uses alternate sources of information to find my location.
[23:11] <kiko> sorry?
[23:12] <persia> OK.  It's a trivial matter to find the current physical location of most people within about 4 hours.
[23:12] <persia> This has been true for quite a while now.
[23:12] <kiko> okay, let's say I agree with that. what's your point? :)
[23:12] <persia> On the other hand, doing so requires access to several different sources of information, and integration.
[23:13] <exarkun> kiko: Someone might be looking for persia
[23:13] <persia> I don't like having it somewhere as googleable as LP, but I also don't like lying.
[23:13] <exarkun> kiko: And think they found him via his launchpad information.
[23:13] <exarkun> And then get lost and mugged and die.
[23:13] <exarkun> And I guess persia would feel bad
[23:13] <persia> exarkun: Thanks.  Right.  I'm a dissident.
[23:13] <exarkun> Oh, or maybe he wouldn't feel bad.
[23:13] <exarkun> ;)
[23:13] <exarkun> But anyway it'd be better if the person didn't think they'd found him.
[23:13] <kiko> heh
[23:14] <kiko> exarkun, you are a riot
[23:14] <exarkun> :)
[23:17] <wgrant> Why isn't location unsettable? Surely it's extra work to configure the permissions the current way...
[23:18] <beuno> wgrant, my wild guess would be because people can hide their location, so it doesn't seem like a good investment of time
[23:18] <beuno> but, this is a wild and personal guess  :)
[23:18] <wgrant> beuno: But that implies hiding one's timezone as well.
[23:18] <wgrant> Which might not be particularly desirable.
[23:19] <beuno> sure, it would be a corner case
[23:19] <persia> Actually, it's typically undesireable, as one wants to hint the timezone to advise others when is a good time for coordination.
[23:19] <beuno> I don't disagree, I'm not too sure it's a great investment of time
[23:20] <persia> I'd say the same thing about the map in general :)
[23:20] <wgrant> But implementing a feature where others can set one's personal information is?
[23:20] <beuno> I like the feature
[23:20] <beuno> seeing where everybody is located on a map
[23:20] <persia> (not that I really mind it, except for not being able to unset my location, and needing to press an extra confirmation button every time I visit a person page)
[23:20] <exarkun> Of course I'm sure I don't need to point this out, but once Launchpad is open source, this is exactly the sort of thing that interested parties will be able to contribute an implementation of, so Canonical won't have to worry that it's not a good investment of development time. ;)
[23:20] <beuno> and being able to see what time it is now
[23:21] <wgrant> persia: It's over SSL now.
[23:21] <persia> wgrant: Not for me.
[23:21] <beuno> well, it's not what Canonical thinks, it's my personal opinion
[23:21] <wgrant> persia: Ah, only on edge.
[23:21] <persia> I'll get it in 2-3 weeks.  Until then, it's annoying.
[23:21] <beuno> so "off the record"
[23:51] <Ursinha> I'll be back in three hours!


[12:29] <ahasenack> morning
[15:22] <hallyn> vorlon: hey!   there's a not-very-high-prio but security related bug in pam, fixed in 1.5.2.  (see https://github.com/shadow-maint/shadow/issues/518#issuecomment-1108701718 and https://github.com/linux-pam/linux-pam/commit/e65d93223bbcf9931f580963edeacbe3c2cf72cb ).  debian/control shows you as the debian maintainer, were you planning on doing a release soon?


[03:12] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4478 xubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml:
[03:12] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: fixing bug 152627
[03:12] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: wasn't paying attention when i was greping
[03:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152627 in xubuntu-docs "Typo error in a string" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152627
[03:14] <jjesse> wahoo rememberd svn password
[03:29] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: jjesse * r4479 generic/packagingguide/C/introduction.xml:
[03:29] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: fixing bug 153939 in trunk
[03:29] <CIA-18> Ubuntu Documentation: thanks for reporting this bug
[03:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153939 in ubuntu-doc "Packaging guide; Prerequisites missing closing parentheses." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153939
[07:22] <howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
[15:01] <Spads> Is there going to be an update to http://help.ubuntu.com now that gutsy is released?
[18:23] <mdke> Spads: I suppose so


[12:15] <danp> hi
[12:17] <danp> i'm having trouble preseeding a software RAID setup. is that supported?
[12:26] <cjwatson> not at the moment, I'm afraid. I'll add moving partman-auto-raid into main to my to-do list so that it will at least be vaguely possible
[12:26] <cjwatson> sorry
[12:40] <danp> no sorries! that's quite alright.
[12:41] <danp> i'm trying to understand this better...so partman-auto-raid (the package?) would provide support for that? what does partman-md do?
[12:41] <danp> or do you mean partman-auto-raid the preseed key
[12:46] <danp> ahh, i see. i found the partman-auto-raid d-i package
[01:23] <danp> looks like i should be able to just build it and install it myself off my thumb drive. just trying to work out one issue
[01:33] <cjwatson> partman-md provides the normal RAID UI in the installer
[01:34] <cjwatson> it won't be easy to install partman-auto-raid by hand due to an infelicity in how cdebconf works
[01:34] <danp> it created arrays
[01:35] <cjwatson> if you nobble your installation source to include it, that would work
[01:35] <danp> i built the udeb and used udpkg -i to install it
[01:35] <cjwatson> heh, actually you will probably be OK just as long as it never has to display an error
[01:35] <cjwatson> if it has to display an error it will fail to find its templates and get very very confused
[01:35] <cjwatson> but otherwise, yeah, should be OK
[01:36] <danp> for some reason it's trying to go up to /dev/md/10 though
[01:36] <cjwatson> hmm, it's not been tested in Ubuntu ...
[01:36] <cjwatson> it just munches through /proc/mdstat to find the next number
[01:36] <danp> yeah
[01:37] <cjwatson> how many entries were you expecting?
[01:37] <danp> 0, 1, and 2. which it creates fine
[01:37] <cjwatson> what does it create on the rest of them?
[01:38] <cjwatson> could I see your recipe?
[01:38] <danp> it doesn't seem to...it just logs an error from within initial_auto_raid_fs looking for /var/lib/partman/devices/=dev=md=10 (within fix_raid_fs())
[01:38] <danp> sure, sec
[01:39] <danp> http://pastie.caboo.se/93157
[01:39] <danp> basically straight from the debian example
[01:39] <cjwatson> ah, it's a consequence of the buggered templates
[01:40] <cjwatson> give me a moment and I'll give you a workaround
[01:41] <cjwatson> ok, this is horrible, but add this to your preseed file:
[01:41] <cjwatson> d-i partman-auto-raid/raidnum string
[01:41] <cjwatson> that'll just create the template so that it doesn't unexpectedly get an error
[01:42] <cjwatson> wouldn't be necessary if partman-auto-raid were installed normally
[01:42] <danp> ahh, i was thinking about just manually setting that to 0 or 2 or whatever it wanted
[01:42] <cjwatson> just set it to blank and it should sort it out itself
[01:43] <danp> thanks! i'm giving it a go now
[01:45] <danp> perfect!
[01:46] <danp> i was curious to see, too, if it would get upset now that md devices existed already
[01:46] <danp> but it seems to be fine
[01:48] <cjwatson> I suspect it won't have wiped them
[01:48] <cjwatson> so you might need to do that
[01:48] <danp> it didn't get a chance to mkfs them before
[01:49] <cjwatson> though I suppose it will have overwritten the partitions where they previously were - hmm, hope that doesn't cause them to change number
[01:49] <danp> nah
[01:49] <cjwatson> oh well, should fall out in the UUID wash anyway
[01:49] <danp> i still just have 0, 1, and 2
[01:49] <cjwatson> ok, cool
[01:49] <danp> and they are sync'ing as expected
[01:49] <danp> thank you very much
[01:49] <danp> i have a ton of machines that have dual internal SATA drives that i'm looking to reinstall
[01:53] <cjwatson> good luck! do you have a means to do the udpkg -i automatically (preseed/early_command maybe)?
[01:53] <danp> yep
[01:53] <danp> it wasn't in what i pasted but that's what i did
[01:54] <danp> at first to try it i just cancelled DHCP (so i could get a pause) and installed it manually
[12:11] <CIA-20> ubiquity: superm1 * r2156 mythbuntu-ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/mythbuntu/mythbuntu_install.py): add errno to imports of mythbuntu_ui (LP: #130771)


[00:00] <Ursinha> javaJake, erm, this is a known bug
[00:01] <Ursinha> javaJake, it's bug 301595, being worked on
[00:05] <javaJake> Ursinha: OK
[00:05] <javaJake> Ursinha: thanks
[00:07] <Ursinha> javaJake, np :)
[03:07] <respond> If I do a "bzr commit"  after a "bzr branch lp:foobar" operation, will it modify only local files on my system?
[03:07] <respond> I want only local files to be modified at this time, then request a push later. Is that how it works?
[03:08] <wgrant> respond: Yes.
[03:09] <respond> wgrant: thanks.
[03:11] <respond> For this error: "bzr: ERROR: Commit refused because there are unknown files in the working tree.", is there a way to get bzr to tell me which files it cannot recognize?
[03:11] <respond> This is due to my aliasing commit to commit --strict.
[03:28] <RAOF> respond: 'bzr st' (short for bzr status) will give you a list of all the: added files, changed files, deleted files, and (importantly for you) unknown files.
[04:19] <respond> RAOF_: Thanks (belatedly). I discovered that after many 'o' manual page reading. :)
[10:50] <c_korn> hello
[10:51] <c_korn> my browser (opera) fails to load one element on launchpad.net#
[10:51] <c_korn> -# never saw such a behaviour on any other website
[10:59] <epsy> and what elemebt would that be?!
[11:00] <c_korn> don't know how I can figure it out
[11:00] <epsy> well, screenshot?
[11:02] <c_korn> http://www.abload.de/img/bildschirmfoto-launchp45kk.png
[11:31] <goshawk> hi
[11:33] <goshawk> i've a problem with ppa. i've uploaded a package and then deeted it. now i'm uploading a new package with the same changelog and it gets rejected by launchpad. The reason is: File dsss_0.78-0ubuntu2.diff.gz already exists in PPA for D Programming Language Applications Packagers, but uploaded version has different contents. how can i fix it?
[11:34] <Hobbsee> increase the version
[11:34] <Hobbsee> just because it's deleted doesn't mean you can use the same version again
[11:35] <goshawk> Hobbsee: yep
[11:36] <goshawk> Hobbsee: is there a way to do it without increasing the version?
[11:36] <Hobbsee> no
[11:36] <goshawk> ok
[11:36] <goshawk> i'll do it then
[11:36] <goshawk> thanks Hobbsee
[11:36] <Hobbsee> you're welcome
[13:38] <Ng> what's the use case for the contact user/team feature?
[13:38] <Ng> I seem to be getting mails from people who are lost and confused
[15:21] <bpierre> hi
[15:28] <bpierre> yesterday I registered 2 branches, the first one was pushed with a bzr format not handled by launchpad bzr version, and doesn't work even after recreating it, but the second one was pushed after I downgraded my local branch to 1.6, but has errors too: https://code.launchpad.net/~benoit.pierre/bzr/shelve_patch_no_newline_at_end
[15:28] <bpierre> the 2 work ok when I use a bzr+ssh URL (push/pull/missing/info/log...)
[15:28] <bpierre> any idea?
[17:10] <respond> FYI: I see this after a long wait: "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server."
[17:10] <respond> when connecting to https://code.launchpad.net/~bgoodr+launchpad/viewmail/bgoodr+launchpad/
[17:11] <respond> Could be my network. who knows.
[17:12] <beuno> respond, seems to work
[17:13] <respond> beuno: I'll give it a retry.
[17:13] <beuno> but if there are timeouts, they'll surface on our daily reports, and it'll get addressed
[17:13] <respond> beuno: gotcha.
[17:14] <respond> It is responding now. Thanks!
[17:27] <Ursinha> hey beuno
[17:28] <Ursinha> :)
[17:41] <beuno> hey hey Ursinha
[17:41] <beuno> how's it going?
[17:41] <Ursinha> nice :)
[17:41] <Ursinha> and you?
[17:42] <beuno> packing :)
[17:42] <Ursinha> :)
[17:42] <Ursinha> this is usual, do you have any news? :P
[18:17] <mrooney> Is there any documentation on expiring bugs?
[18:17] <mrooney> I can't seem to find an explanation on what happens to Incomplete bugs when they are expired
[18:31] <thekorn> mrooney, don't know, but maybe https://help.launchpad.net/Bugs/Expiry
[18:36] <mrooney> thekorn: thanks!
[19:21] <fta> is bazaar.launchpad.net down? I get the "Sorry, there was a problem connecting to the Launchpad server." blabla
[19:26] <slom_> hello
[19:26] <slom_> i cant access http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~c-sloma/r6rs-clos/r6rs-clos-dev/revision/13
[19:27] <slom_> and it says I should let people know on "the #launchpad IRC channel on Freenode. "
[19:27] <slom_> :)
[19:29] <oojah> slom_: Someone else was asking a similar question about bazaar.launchpad.net about seven minutes ago.
[19:29] <oojah> So it's probably not just you (if that's any consolation).
[19:30] <slom_> :)
[19:30] <beuno> slom_, the server is probably overloaded
[19:30] <beuno> it will get restarted soon
[19:30] <beuno> it's a known performance issue being worked on
[19:32] <slom_> thanks for your work then ... I will wait until it's back online
[19:45] <tormod> why do I get "package architecture (lpia) does not match system (amd64)" on a lpia build?
[20:18] <WNxCryptic> I'd like to start developing for an open-source project to gain software eng experience and bulk up my resume, but I don't have very much confidence that I'd be able to jump into something big like an OS and immediately be of any use.
[20:19] <WNxCryptic> Anyone have a recommendation as to some open-source project I might look at?
[20:20] <kiko> WNxCryptic, do you want to development work or just QA?
[20:21] <WNxCryptic> What's QA?
[20:22] <kiko> quality assurance
[20:23] <WNxCryptic> development work
[20:23] <kiko> WNxCryptic, hmm. any application you're particularly interested in?
[20:24] <WNxCryptic> not especially
[20:25] <WNxCryptic> I mean I just got on the linux scene and would like to learn more about it
[20:25] <WNxCryptic> But not sure if the best way to do that is through dev
[20:25] <kiko> WNxCryptic, check out launchpad.net/ubuntu
[20:25] <kiko> there's a bunch of stuff about the distro
[20:26] <kiko> and that will teach you more or less what goes into a distro
[20:26] <stgraber> Is there a magic way that I don't know of to get the list of blueprints that have been proposed for uds-jaunty and I'm subscribed to ?
[20:29] <WNxCryptic> kiko, well I'm currently using ubuntu but I'm not sure if I'm going to stick with it.
[20:30] <WNxCryptic> I like it well enough but I can't say that its going to be perfect for me.
[20:32] <RAOF> WNxCryptic: Ubuntu is composed of the work of many, many (I think ~20,000) 'upstream' projects, which are shared in common with all the distributions.
[20:34] <RAOF> People don't generally develop "Ubuntu"; they hack on one of these projects (the kernel, GTK, X, GIMP, mono, GNOME-Do, empathy, dbus, firefox, etc, etc).
[20:35] <RAOF> There are a small number of projects which are Ubuntu- or Debian-specific, but not many.
[20:36] <WNxCryptic> Well I was just recommended to check out Slackware when I mentioned I wanted to learn as much about linux (in general) in the shortest time possible.
[20:36] <WNxCryptic> What's the dev work for slackware like? Similar to ubuntu in that its composed of numerous packages?
[20:38] <RAOF> Right.
[20:39] <WNxCryptic> I see.
[20:39] <RAOF>  /All/ the distributions are like that.  Slackware, gentoo, Fedora, SuSE, Debian - the work of a distribution is to aggregate these upstream projects in useful, harmoneous ways.
[20:39] <WNxCryptic> I mean, I imagine that trying to dev for the kernel would be more complicated than some other app..yeah?
[20:39] <RAOF> Mostly, yeah.    And it's less easy to debug ;)
[20:40] <WNxCryptic> Restrictions?
[20:41] <RAOF> No floating point code, for example.
[21:22] <DrSmall> Hey, I am getting a "Please try again" error when attempting to access this page: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~drsmall/feedmailer/devel/files
[21:22] <lifeless> spm: ping
[21:22] <mrooney> DrSmall: have you tried again? :)
[21:22] <spm> lifeless: pong
[21:22] <lifeless> loggerhead slap needed I think
[21:22] <DrSmall> mrooney: of course
[21:23] <spm> lifeless: it does - didn't check nagios earlier - DrSmall 1001 apoloiges; fixing now.
[21:23] <lifeless> DrSmall: one of our backends is a bit temperamental right now
[21:23] <poolie> hello
[21:23] <lifeless> DrSmall: will be fixed in a couple of minutes
[21:23] <DrSmall> lifeless: thanks
[21:24] <DrSmall> no big hurry. I was just letting you know
[21:25] <spm> DrSmall: should be ok again
[21:26] <DrSmall> spm: works fine now. Thanks
[21:32] <lifeless> poolie: are you back?
[21:41] <poolie> i'm scheduled to be on leave today
[21:41] <poolie> just for one day
[21:42] <poolie> i'm just having a look at what's in mail etc
[21:42] <poolie> btw spm made a 1.10 pqm branch, but either couldn't or didn't push it to escudero
[21:42] <poolie> could you do that please?
[21:42] <poolie> or tell him how to?
[21:55] <lifeless> poolie: I did, in #is on the same day
[21:55] <lifeless> poolie: along with corrections to what you asked to ensure the right parent exists etc
[21:55] <lifeless> poolie: so I'll just do the escudero push now
[22:15] <qball> I have a package in my ppa that is waiting on a dependency.. but libgio-dev was a intermediate package, so that will never be fixed
[22:15] <qball> how can I get rid of the package?
[22:15] <qball> from the build queue
[22:18] <poolie> qball: file a ticket at answers.launchpad.net/soyuz
[22:18] <poolie> ^^ informed guess


[04:57] <qwebirc67138> Are there any TV Tuners that mythTV can change the channels of?
[04:58] <qwebirc67138> *PCIE tuners
[19:39] <Hydr0p0nX> that was fun
[19:40] <Hydr0p0nX> spent the last hour or two trying to figure out why my modules compiled and wouldn't load, only to find out I needed to remove and re-add the source files to dkms repository


[10:57] <ChristW> Hi, I have some photo's (screenshots don't show the problem...) of a problem. Are you interested in seeing them, and how do I get them to you?
[10:58] <TJ-> !paste | ChristW
[10:58] <TJ-> hmmm... where's ubottu when we need it!?
[10:58] <ChristW> pastebinnit?
[10:58] <TJ-> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use https://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use https://imgur.com/ !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[10:59] <TJ-> there we go, copied from ubottu in another channel :)
[10:59] <TJ-> so imgur.com basically is the answer
[10:59] <ChristW> Thanks! I'll see if I can get it on imgur...
[11:02] <ChristW> https://imgur.com/a/yPXBLvI
[11:03] <ChristW> Only part of the top menu bar shows up, and the menu that shows when I press the 'power' button only shows part.
[11:04] <TJ->  ChristW have you got zoom/scale factor set high?
[11:05] <ChristW> I did zoom in. Not sure how to check how high this is?
[11:07] <TJ-> ChristW: it looks to me like the zoom isn't being taken into account when setting the size of the containing GUI element
[11:07] <ChristW> In the accessibility menu, I turned on 'Large text' and 'zoom'.
[11:07] <TJ-> ChristW: is that 18.04 ?
[11:07] <ChristW> Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS \n \l
[11:09] <ChristW> If I switch back to 100% (Ctrl-Alt--), the problems go away.
[11:09] <TJ-> So presumably Gnome - which I don't use
[11:09] <ChristW> If I zoom in (is 200% the first step??), I get these artifacts.
[11:10] <ChristW> $ cat /etc/X11/default-display-manager
[11:10] <ChristW> /usr/sbin/gdm3
[11:10] <ChristW> So probably, yes...
[11:11] <ChristW> ...but I'm not attached to it, so I could try another one.
[11:13] <TJ-> could be related to this bug
[11:13] <TJ-> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1779615
[11:13] <TJ-> I can't find any other reports immediately
[11:14] <ChristW> I could install lightdm...
[11:15] <ChristW> and use unity.
[11:15] <TJ-> I think unity, or the unity theme to gnome, may be the problem
[11:15] <TJ-> I only use XFCE so it's not something I experience.
[11:20] <ChristW> I tried installing XFCE, will report back after the reboot...
[11:26] <ChristW> Ok, xfce up and running...
[11:26] <ChristW> Now for the a11y features...
[11:28] <TJ-> I'm quite interested in this because I volunteer for a blind charity and am currently designing and developing a complete digitial platform for them
[11:29] <ChristW> Good luck! It's hard to get right...
[11:30] <ChristW> So, how does screen magnification work in XFCE?
[11:32] <TJ-> umm!
[11:32] <ChristW> Ah, Alt-mousewheel seems to work!
[11:32] <TJ-> hold down Alt and mousewheel
[11:35] <ChristW> Ok, that works... I'll show my wife when she gets home.
[11:36] <ChristW> Whew, that was some morning... Getting rid of NVidia drivers, then getting this up and running...
[11:37] <ChristW> Oh: https://developer.gnome.org/projects/gap/sanity-testing/a11y_sanity_suite.html -> 404
[11:38] <ChristW> (linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/Testing)
[11:39] <TJ-> :)
[11:40] <TJ-> Doesn't surprise me, the Ubuntu wiki has no automated link checker and has a lot of old legacy articles