[00:03] <xubuntu82w> Hi all
[00:04] <xubuntu82w> I just grabbed the x64 torrent. Can anyone tell me how to INSTALL (not live) it on a usb?
[00:05] <xangua> install it as you would normally on your HD, don't expect the usb stick to have a long life
[00:05] <xubuntu82w> There doesn't seem to be any documentation on 15.4. The link on this page is broken http://xubuntu.org/help/
[00:06] <xubuntu82w> How long of a life would a usb have? Could I install the OS on the usb and install programs on my SSD?
[00:08] <Unit193> !persistence
[00:09] <xubuntu82w> Ok, let me check it out. I've been reading guides for about an hour, nothing really helpful yet. I haven't seen that one though.
[00:34] <Unit193> knome: ----------------------6?
[00:34] <Unit193> ---^?
[02:13] <bynarie> after i add the xorg/edgers ppa, i goto additional drivers, select nvidia 349 driver and im good.. but when the system updates, after reboot it wont load X. it keeps freezing up.. anyone heard of this?
[02:27] <xangua> that's the thing with daily build packages, one day they work and the next they don't
[02:29] <bynarie> everything works fine until i get software updates, then i reboot and crash
[02:30] <bynarie> im just trying to find a way around the cursor disappearing at top of screen with nv346
[02:30] <bynarie> ive tried using the mamarley ppa, but it doesnt pull in nv349 for some reason
[06:53] <sim642> I'm running 14.04.2 (upgraded if I remember) and over the past 2 days I've had glslideshow crash causing xscreensaver also to stop running which means my computer isn't locked anymore. This has never happened before so I'm really confused
[08:13] <rmrfchik> hi. i'm trying xubuntu (15.04), I was in debian and used to middlemouse paste to firefox to open url
[08:14] <rmrfchik> it doesn't in xubuntu's firefox
[08:41] <jdo_dk> I'm not sure this is the right place to ask, but i try anyways. Is there a tool where i can have a "menu" like: server1, server2 etc. And just click the server, will ssh connect a terminal to the server?
[08:50] <koegs> jdo_dk: i like PAC a lot
[08:50] <koegs> http://sourceforge.net/projects/pacmanager/
[08:51] <jdo_dk> koegs: Will try. Thanks
[08:52] <koegs> jdo_dk: it also supports RDP, VNC, etc. :)
[08:53] <jdo_dk> I only need ssh "GUI"
[08:53] <jdo_dk> Cant remember all those 20-30 servers in my head. :p
[08:54] <koegs> http://www.webupd8.org/2010/01/sshmenu-gnome-panel-applet-for-managing.html
[08:56] <jdo_dk> koegs: Maybe a stupid question, but will it work i xubuntu ?
[08:59] <koegs> hm, just checking, i dont think it can be installed on 14.04
[08:59] <jdo_dk> im on: 15.04
[09:00] <koegs> same
[09:01] <jdo_dk> How about a tool like "shortcuts" in windows: ssh server1 'ssh server2' Would to it.
[09:01] <koegs> you can do so
[09:14] <ponzellus> you can just make a new menu entry with command 'ssh server1', check the 'execute in terminal' and click on it ;)
[09:15] <ponzellus> or use the command 'xfce4-terminal -x ssh server1'
[12:00] <knob> Good morning all!
[12:31] <javier_> Hello, i have problems with a webcam in xubuntu 12.04 , de cam is recognized by the system (lsusb : Bus 003 Device 010: ID 0ac8:3450 Z-Star Microelectronics Corp.) but no /dev/video0 is created when i plugged, then cheese show "no device found" anyone can guide me what to do?
[12:31] <knome> javier_, xubuntu 12.04 is end of life
[12:33] <javier_> i know, but i hace everything configured to work for this version and can't upgrade but the problem is the same with 14.04 in another laptop :(
[12:33] <javier_> the webcam problem
[12:35] <javier_> some things about my sound config don't works with 14.04 in this machine :(
[14:37] <xubuntu18w> Somone know why is the Lubuntu.net down ?
[14:40] <elfy> why not try a lubuntu channel ... #lubuntu for instance
[14:41] <Pici> (it looks like the server hosted by the osuosl is down)
[14:41] <xubuntu18w> elfy: hello the lubuntu sites is down.
[14:42] <elfy> xubuntu18w: the lubuntu irc channel is on freenode just do /join #lubuntu
[14:46] <xubuntu18w> I am interested in xubuntu and lubuntu. Is it something i can do with xubuntu i can not with lubuntu ? And xubuntu still have a old bug.
[14:47] <xangua> they are both *Ubuntu, so there is nothing you can do with Ubuntu you can't do with Ubuntu
[14:48] <baizon> xubuntu18w: test both out and pick the one you like more. I did try most of the DE, and im using xfce for my laptops, and KDE for my desktop
[14:48] <baizon> xubuntu18w: so there is no right answer, because you will always get a subjective one.
[14:59] <lopes> bom dia
[15:02] <xangua> good morning lopes, can you speak english?
[15:02] <lopes> No, xangua
[15:02] <drc> !br | lopes
[15:03] <lopes> Ok, ubottu
[15:03] <lopes> thanks
[15:03] <lopes> bye
[16:02] <xubuntu548> sweet
[16:03] <xubuntu548> I love xubuntu so much more than ubuntu
[16:03] <xubuntu548> I hate the unity version
[16:04] <xubuntu548> guess no one is listening
[16:04] <xubuntu548> goodbye
[16:04] <holstein> well, no one will make you use it.. xubuntu *is* ubuntu, though.. and there may be many community member/volunteers who use/support both.. cheers for your support of the community in general
[16:05] <xubuntu548> I know it's a version of ubuntu that was my favorite
[16:19] <M4ca> Hello. My friend has Xubuntu LTS, and he installed the Terminator terminal, and he wants uninstall the xfce4-terminal installed by default. How he can do uninstall it safety?
[16:21] <baizon> M4ca: why not have both and use terminator by default
[16:22] <baizon> M4ca: you can set it here: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/exo/preferred-applications
[16:27] <M4ca> but why it can't be uninstalled?
[16:27] <baizon> M4ca: it can be
[16:28] <M4ca> so, my friend want uninstall it, and he broke his System due dependencies
[16:30] <xangua> that happens when you use a distro with metapackages
[16:31] <holstein> M4ca: theres really nothing to gain, but *very* minimal hard drive space by removing it
[16:31] <holstein> !mini
[16:32] <holstein> one can always install minimal ubuntu ^ and only add what one wants.. xfce, and custom applications.. etc
[16:32] <M4ca> ah
[16:32] <M4ca> ok
[16:34] <krytarik> M4ca: "he broke his System due dependencies" - what exactly do you mean by that though?
[16:35] <holstein> i would expect that it would remove "xubuntu-desktop" and not specifically break anything
[16:36] <krytarik> holstein: xfc4-terminal is even just a recommend of that.
[16:36] <krytarik> * xfce4-terminal
[16:37] <M4ca> I don't know, my friend was angry for it and he didn't commented what happened
[16:37] <brainwash> we cannot help you then. please tell your friend to join this channel if wants to resolve this problem
[16:37] <holstein> invite your friend to the free, volunteer support here.. or, share the facts, while obtaining the facts from the friend..
[18:23] <rey_> I have a ligitamate question here
[18:23] <rey_> I am totally new to linux
[18:23] <rey_> My camera doesn't operate under Skype.
[18:24] <rey_> I know it works under windows. I have a duel boot computer. 2 hard drives
[18:24] <rey_> anyone here?
[20:15] <koegs> is there a way to change "tap to click" (for touchpads) via terminal?
[20:32] <koegs> got it via xinput and a little script :)
[22:35] <sergio-br2> hey
[22:35] <sergio-br2> hey ochosi, what't the size of Alt+Tab icons?
[23:07] <cue> Hi. I have four machines on my LAN, all linux, two of them are xubuntu, two opensuse. The two xubuntu machines can connect to the two opensuse machines (over browse network) but not to each other - the xubuntu machines are not visible to each other in browse network. Also, the two opensuse machines can't connect to either of the xubuntu machines. Xubuntu machines firewalls are off. How can I connect to the xubuntu machines? Something is


[02:49] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Robert Ancell: GIFs in GNOME @ http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/2018/12/gifs-in-gnome.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Robert Ancell))
[04:48] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Robert Ancell: Interesting things about the GIF image format @ http://bobthegnome.blogspot.com/2018/12/interesting-things-about-gif-image.html (by<EMAIL_ADDRESS>(Robert Ancell))
[23:17] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: RaphaÃ«l Hertzog: Freexianâs report about Debian Long Term Support, November 2018 @ https://raphaelhertzog.com/2018/12/14/freexians-report-about-debian-long-term-support-november-2018/


[00:00] <dtchen> i've been tracking jaunty steadily, and i always regression test my changes on several machines, so i'm a bit perplexed at the consolekit error
[00:01] <dtchen> the only other instance of anything similar was FS corruption on the reporter's machine that hosed module-console-kit.so
[00:03] <fta> it's commented
[00:04] <BUGabundo_> asac: http://paste.ubuntu.com/117889
[00:04] <fta> the consolekit error is from my other desktop, at work, it occurs when i was not even in front of it, it was locked
[00:06] <asac> BUGabundo_: please not in here, but in the bugs
[00:06] <asac> in the appropriate please
[00:06] <asac> also include your ppp version
[00:06] <asac> if you havent done so yet
[00:06] <BUGabundo_> done too
[00:06] <BUGabundo_> i did
[00:07] <BUGabundo_> please look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/329228
[00:07] <BUGabundo_> ppp:   Installed: 2.4.5~git20081126t100229-0ubuntu1~nm1
[00:07] <asac> BUGabundo_: can you try to downgrade?
[00:08] <BUGabundo_> sure
[00:08] <asac> to the jaunty or intrepid version
[00:08] <asac> BUGabundo_: /usr/sbin/pppd: invalid numeric parameter 'n' for kdebug option
[00:08] <asac> dont downgrade
[00:08] <BUGabundo_> downgrading now
[00:08] <asac> you probably have a syntax error in options
[00:08] <BUGabundo_> bagh
[00:09] <asac> look for kdebug or something
[00:09] <asac> you probably messed that up ;)
[00:09] <asac> BUGabundo_: #kdebug n
[00:09] <asac> thats the wrong option
[00:09] <BUGabundo_> line 184: kdebug n
[00:09] <BUGabundo_> let me comment it
[00:09] <asac> its just "debug"
[00:09] <asac> BUGabundo_: just use "debug"
[00:09] <BUGabundo_> okay
[00:09] <asac> without parameter
[00:09] <BUGabundo_> done
[00:10] <asac> its a few lines above
[00:10] <asac> BUGabundo_: get log again then
[00:10] <BUGabundo_> okay
[00:10] <asac> serial and syslog
[00:10] <BUGabundo_> upgradying ppp and nm-pptp again
[00:10] <asac> probably serial is in syslog too
[00:10] <asac> yeah
[00:11]  * BUGabundo_ bafles: he is on borrow 3G card with only 1GiBs bw
[00:11] <BUGabundo_> brb
[00:11] <BUGabundo_> time to debug
[00:11] <BUGabundo_> asac: i had to kill NM twice
[00:11] <BUGabundo_> the first didnt kill it
[00:11] <asac> BUGabundo_: better reboot then
[00:11] <asac> drivewr might be in bad state
[00:11] <fta> is there an applet to have more info about my connection? something more than the dumb n-m default applet
[00:11] <asac> if things lock up
[00:12] <BUGabundo_> rebooting
[00:12] <asac> fta: about 3g connection?
[00:12] <BUGabundo_> asac: with or wutout PIN?
[00:13] <asac> BUGabundo_: with PIN for now
[00:13] <asac> and without if that doesnt work
[00:13] <fta> asac, yes
[00:13] <asac> fta: well. drivers are different for things that go beyond basic features
[00:13] <asac> fta: thats why modemmanager was created
[00:14] <asac> it currently has signal strength feature
[00:14] <asac> but more can be added for each individual modem
[00:14] <BUGabundo_> wull nm08 be packed any time soon?
[00:14] <asac> fta: you need a modemmanager enabled build for that
[00:14] <asac> i have not yet decided if i do that next week or wait with mm for next cycle
[00:15] <BUGabundo_> on a new PPA or NM PPA with epoch?
[00:15] <fta> is it in a ppa ? something at least slightly tested ;)
[00:15] <BUGabundo_> oh great.... metacity just blew after reboot
[00:15] <asac> BUGabundo_: use ppa
[00:15] <BUGabundo_> should afect my debug
[00:16] <asac> fta: you can try the packages in ~modemmanager ppa
[00:16] <BUGabundo_> brb
[00:16]  * fta updating his laptop...
[00:16] <asac> fta: but but but
[00:16] <asac> those are a bit busted. bit give it a try. its the old snapshot from intrepid still
[00:16] <fta> Get:257 http://archive.ubuntu.com jaunty/universe openarena-data 0.8.1-1 [306MB] beuhhh
[00:16] <asac> yeah
[00:17] <fta> bad over 3G
[00:17] <fta> fortunately, it's wired now
[00:18] <fta> is archive.ubuntu.com rate limiting the connections?
[00:19] <asac> not sure ... tcp has constraints on its own
[00:19] <fta> I have a flat 830KB/s
[00:19] <asac> ask Nafallo maybe
[00:19] <asac> but i think its mirrored too
[00:19] <asac> and round-robin or something
[00:19] <fta> that's 6.9Mb/s, i can do a lot more
[00:19] <asac> well ... what ping do you have?
[00:20] <fta> during dl? probably bad
[00:20] <fta> 90ms
[00:21] <asac> no ... i mean in general
[00:21] <asac> i am not sure how the limit for tcp depending on ping, but there is a correlation
[00:21] <asac> try multiple connections
[00:21] <fta> let me finish my 680M upgrade
[00:22] <fta> asac, lol, you remember i'm a network engineer, right?
[00:23] <asac> so what is the max througput for tcp with ping 200ms with default settings on ubuntu jaunty ;)
[00:23] <BUGabundo_> back
[00:23] <BUGabundo_> uploading new logs to bug
[00:23] <fta> asac, I can do a lot more between home and my other boxes at work
[00:24] <asac> fta: how is the ping?
[00:24] <asac> i mean i have 63ms to archive and get about the same
[00:24] <asac> the german mirror i use has 40-38ms and i get 1M
[00:24] <asac> (vs 800)
[00:25] <BUGabundo_> asac: bug 329228 updated
[00:25] <fta> asac, 8ms from work, and 30ms from home
[00:25] <asac> fta: see ;)
[00:25] <fta> but that's not enough to explain that
[00:25] <asac> so if you have 60 you might have double power 2 aka factor 4 ;) ;)
[00:26] <asac> Max. Throughput = TCP Window Size / Round-trip time.
[00:27] <BUGabundo_> my ping average with this 3G card, passing through a winXP box is 108ms
[00:27] <asac> he Max TCP Window size in the absence of window scaling is 65 535 bytes.
[00:27] <asac> Example: Max Bandwidth = 65535 bytes / 0.220 s = 297886.36 bytes/s = 2.38 Mbit/s.
[00:27] <asac> well ... but is the tcp window on over internet connections more like the mtu?
[00:27] <asac> e.g. 1500?
[00:27] <BUGabundo_> gogle's pings are way worse: 362ms
[00:29] <fta> wget http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/o/openarena-data/openarena-data_0.8.1-1_all.deb
[00:29] <fta> ~811K/s,
[00:31] <fta> it's 240ms away from works, and 45ms from home (!?? wtf)
[00:31] <fta> -s
[00:31] <fta>  8  surfnet-gw2.amd.cw.net (<IP_ADDRESS>)  18.631 ms  18.624 ms  18.594 ms
[00:31] <fta>  9  AE1.500.JNR01.Asd001A.surf.net (<IP_ADDRESS>)  240.634 ms  240.414 ms  240.630 ms
[00:31] <fta> booo
[00:31] <asac> 60 mS   8,658 Kbps
[00:32] <asac> http://www.babinszki.com/Networking/Max-Ethernet-and-TCP-Throughput.html
[00:33] <asac> this table seems to be a bit odd ;)
[00:33] <asac> but if its really for gigabit
[00:33] <fta> but i do 6.9Mb/s with 30ms
[00:33] <asac> then 69Ms seems to be 8.6 Mb/s
[00:33] <asac> fta: yes, but the window size in that table is optimal
[00:34] <asac> for 65k windows
[00:34] <asac> i dont think you get that on internet
[00:34] <asac> but the numbers look low still
[00:34] <asac> well ... the 0.1ms looks right
[00:34] <BUGabundo_> asac: do u need anything else?
[00:34] <asac> almost 1000 Mb
[00:34] <BUGabundo_> before i go to bed?
[00:34] <fta> apt-get fist-upgrade
[00:34] <fta> E: Invalid operation fist-upgrade
[00:34] <fta> :)
[00:34] <asac> BUGabundo_: lets loook
[00:35] <asac> hehe
[00:35] <asac> ;)
[00:35] <asac> BUGabundo_: why applet log? (what is that)
[00:35] <BUGabundo_> well for some reason it died when i killed NM
[00:36] <BUGabundo_> so i started it from cli
[00:36] <asac> BUGabundo_: hmm ... ppp isnt debug ?
[00:36] <BUGabundo_> humm i set the option
[00:36] <BUGabundo_> as u said
[00:36]  * BUGabundo_ checks
[00:37] <asac> BUGabundo_: oh
[00:37] <BUGabundo_> yep
[00:37] <BUGabundo_> debug is NOT comment
[00:37] <BUGabundo_> on /etc/ppp/options
[00:37] <asac> BUGabundo_: you didnt upgrade network-manager from ppa?
[00:37] <asac> BUGabundo_: thats jaunty?
[00:37] <BUGabundo_> i didnt change networ-manager
[00:37] <asac> BUGabundo_: your problem is that you have incompatible ppp plugin
[00:37] <BUGabundo_> just ppp and then again up
[00:38] <asac> BUGabundo_: you need to upgrade to everything you get on ppa
[00:38] <asac> thats network-manager and -pptp plugin and pppd
[00:38] <BUGabundo_> ppp is PPA
[00:38] <asac> yes
[00:38] <asac> all three are ppa
[00:38] <BUGabundo_> isnt
[00:38] <asac> they have to together
[00:38] <BUGabundo_> its from archive
[00:38] <BUGabundo_> PPA and arc have same version
[00:38] <BUGabundo_> so archive is prefered
[00:39] <asac> BUGabundo_: oh i forgot the main network-manager
[00:39] <asac> too bad
[00:39] <BUGabundo_> everything else _should_ be using PPA
[00:39] <asac> BUGabundo_: yeah thats my fault then finally ;)
[00:39] <asac> i think i forgot to push
[00:40] <BUGabundo_> humm
[00:40] <BUGabundo_> ok
[00:40] <asac> its ppp, -pptp and network-manager that needed a respin
[00:40] <BUGabundo_> humm those are all PPA
[00:40] <BUGabundo_> only NM is archive
[00:40] <asac> BUGabundo_: yeah. because i didnt bump in ppa ... which i thought i did
[00:40] <asac> BUGabundo_: i am uploading that now
[00:40] <BUGabundo_> np
[00:40] <asac> so tomorrow morngin it should work
[00:41]  * BUGabundo_ awan
[00:41] <asac> BUGabundo_: so you could downgrade ppp and -pptp
[00:41] <asac> or sleep and see tomorrow
[00:41] <BUGabundo_> please comment on the bug (maybe fix release?)
[00:41] <BUGabundo_> when pack have been build
[00:41] <BUGabundo_> ill see if i can hold on to the donge a few more hours
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> but have to get somewhere to do all this downloads
[00:42] <asac> BUGabundo_: i think 40 minutes till .debs are there
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> ok
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> then tomorrow should be fine
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> so should i go ALL PPA?
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> or archive?
[00:42] <BUGabundo_> i got lost
[00:43] <asac> BUGabundo_: just keep ppa in sources.list
[00:43] <asac> and run dist-upgrade
[00:43] <BUGabundo_> okay
[00:44] <asac> i will not upload stuff you shouldnt get to that archive
[00:44] <asac> so thats usually the safe way
[00:44] <BUGabundo_> did u check that kernel trace?
[00:44] <asac> (note: but just for this archive ... there might be other ppas that are maintained differently)
[00:44] <BUGabundo_> it mentioned comm something
[00:44] <BUGabundo_> not sure NM has something to do with it
[00:44] <asac> BUGabundo_: kernel trace is a dupe i think. dont have time to look up
[00:44] <asac> BUGabundo_: you should find a bug against linux if you search for "Tainted"
[00:44] <BUGabundo_> one more?
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> i filed 3 of those every release!
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> ehehe
[00:45] <asac> BUGabundo_: no ... read!
[00:45] <asac> "find" != "file" ;)
[00:45] <asac> BUGabundo_: oh so you know the other bugs
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> yep
[00:45] <asac> have those been closed?
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> thats what i'm saying
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> one at least was
[00:45] <BUGabundo_> with interpid backports
[00:46] <asac> well ... then look if the bug is still open
[00:46] <BUGabundo_> one from jaunty not sure... but have seen it in a whyle
[00:46] <asac> if not reassign the current one to linux and subscribe ogasawara
[00:46] <BUGabundo_> diferent stack
[00:46] <BUGabundo_> looks qute diferent from the previous
[00:46] <asac> ok
[00:46] <BUGabundo_> yean Leann seems to prefer diferent bugs
[00:46] <asac> i will look then at some point ;)
[00:46] <BUGabundo_> and not Dupes
[00:47] <BUGabundo_> one more thing
[00:47] <BUGabundo_> and did nt mention this on the bug
[00:47] <BUGabundo_> the new 3G assistant SUCKs
[00:47] <BUGabundo_> ibex version detect my Country
[00:47] <BUGabundo_> Jaunty shows the complete list, and i cant just start typeing
[00:48] <BUGabundo_> have to use mouse to scroll down
[00:49] <asac> BUGabundo_: is there a bug for that yet against libmbca0?
[00:49]  * BUGabundo_ heads to bed
[00:49] <asac> sure
[00:49] <BUGabundo_> didnt even new that package
[00:49] <BUGabundo_> let see if the respin of packages changes something
[00:49] <BUGabundo_> if not, i'll ping u back to get the package name, and i'll file it
[00:49] <asac> ok
[00:49]  * BUGabundo_ has lousy memory
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> i finished the test on ubufox
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> not sure if u read the comments
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> both 3.0 and 3.1 are fixed
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> and i can change my toolbar at will
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> but 2 new bugs were found
[00:50] <BUGabundo_> not on LP yet
[00:51] <BUGabundo_> need to test a bit more
[00:51] <BUGabundo_> anything else, ping me, email me, or dent me
[00:52] <BUGabundo_> good night guys
[00:54] <asac> thanks BUGabundo_
[00:54] <asac> good night
[00:58] <fta> asac, when i disconnect and unplug the usb key, n-m never realizes that the key is gone, so it remains in the list
[01:06] <fta> asac, http://paste.ubuntu.com/117894/
[01:38] <asac> fta: is that with ppp 2.4.5 ?
[01:38] <asac> oh right ;) ... not all bits are there yet
[01:38] <fta> jaunty
[01:38] <asac> maybe try the packages from nm ppa
[01:38] <asac> ppp had some issues that caused stability problems
[01:38] <fta> 2.4.4rel-10ubuntu3
[01:38] <asac> and a bunch are fixed in the package in ~network-manager ppa
[01:38] <asac> yes. 2.4.4 is two years old
[01:39] <fta> two SIMs, one is always fine, the other worked for a while and is now always broken
[01:39] <asac> but you need ppp and the respun nm and nm-pptp (if you use that)
[01:39] <asac> fta: different net provider?
[01:40] <fta> nope, same
[01:40] <fta> orange france for both
[01:40] <asac> fta: using broadband wizard?
[01:40] <fta> in the same usb key
[01:40] <fta> jsut switching sims
[01:41] <asac> fta: have you checked in serial log that NM sends correct pin?
[01:41] <asac> dont know how smart nm is about forgetting and detecting sim changes
[01:41] <fta> yes, it's 0000 on both, on purpose
[01:42] <fta> until i figure out what's wrong, that is
[01:43] <asac> fta: this looks like a problem at ppp negoation
[01:43] <asac> which happens after pin and so on
[01:43] <fta> yes
[01:43] <asac> not sure if you could get that far if you ignore errors up front
[01:43] <asac> trying new ppp might be worth it
[01:44] <asac> could be that one sim ends up on a different server
[01:44] <asac> and the protocol is differnt
[01:44] <asac> but you should check the serial output as on wiki
[01:44] <asac> to be sure there are no ignored issues up front
[01:45] <fta> serial output? wiki?
[01:45] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingNetworkManager#Serial Log (Mobile Broadband)
[01:45] <asac> there you see the modem commands
[01:45] <asac> and replies from modem
[01:46] <fta> that's what i did
[01:47] <asac> yes then check the serial output ... that should be before what you posted
[01:48] <asac> e.g. is correct APN set ... is correct PIN set ... are there any complains and NM just continues with ppp
[01:48] <asac> but well. try new packages from ~network-manager PPA first
[01:48] <asac> ppp caused many issues for lots of users... which is why i rebased all those patches
[01:48] <asac> for me it made stuff more reliable too ;)
[01:49] <asac> i mean, i got similar issues with the old ppp ... not just 100% of time
[01:49] <asac> but sometimes it was really really hard to connect at all
[01:49] <asac> while at other times it just worked
[01:50] <asac> hmm ... probably have to wait till  network-manager - 0.7-0ubuntu2~nm1  is finished in ppa
[01:50] <asac> then you can just upgrade to that
[01:50] <asac> ppa
[01:50] <asac> with ppp new
[01:50] <fta> all the same for both, everything's fine, OK everywhere, nothing unexpected
[01:51] <asac> yeah. this sounds like ppp then
[01:51] <asac> also if you ever touched /etc/ppp/options for anything else than the debug flag
[01:51] <asac> revert those changes
[01:52] <fta> nothing, just debug
[01:52] <asac> yeah wait for 2.4.5 then
[01:53] <asac> sleep a few hours and upgrade to ~network-manager PPA
[01:53] <fta> i should probably call my isp (my own company btw) but if i say linux or ubuntu, i'll get nowhere
[01:54] <fta> and i have no windows or mac to test with
[01:54] <asac> well ... give the new ppp a try ;)
[01:55] <asac> as i said there are bugs fixed that we couldnt get fixed through individual cherry picks in intrepid
[01:55] <fta> let me know when something is ready then
[01:56] <asac> fta: its ready when the current build is done ;)
[01:56] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~network-manager/+archive/ppa just upgrade in the morning ;)
[01:56] <asac> i just forgot to upload the NM ;) ... ppp and -pptp are done since 3 days
[01:57] <asac> sleep for a bit
[01:58] <asac> cu tomoroow ... hopefully i find the time to see whats going on with tbird
[01:59] <fta> ok, thanks. g'night
[02:42] <fta> no change, looks exactly the same, even after a reboot
[11:58] <BUGabundo> guud morning
[12:00] <gnomefreak> good morning
[12:00] <gnomefreak> mozilla 77811
[12:01] <gnomefreak> hmmmmmmm
[12:06] <gnomefreak> holy crap thats alot of people
[12:16] <gnomefreak> why do i get the feeling that it doesnt work with tb3 betas as it says but under long des. it states tb3 beta
[12:16] <gnomefreak> betas
[12:17] <gnomefreak> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/4433
[13:13] <fta> asac, debian bug 497701
[13:21] <gnomefreak> would i use DEBIAN_DATE to pull in SM 1.1.15 tarball? Its not been released yet but would like to work on it so once released just update it
[13:22] <gnomefreak> example ./debian/rules get-orig-source DEBIAN_DATE=dateinchangelog  or is m-d not been updated for pre-release 1.1.x
[13:24] <fta> sm1 is not using m-d, iirc, it has its own rules in the package
[13:25] <gnomefreak> ah ok thanks
[14:35] <asac> fta: didn you know that RFP bug? i am quite sure I suggested to take it as an ITP ;)
[14:36] <asac> retitle 497701 ITP: libv8 -- Google V8 JavaScript Engine
[14:36] <asac> owner 497701 !
[14:36] <asac> thanks
[14:36] <asac> that was what made him the owner
[14:36] <asac> 1st feb
[14:38] <fta> well
[14:38] <fta> he even said he used my patch
[14:40] <asac> fta: yes, but why not
[14:41] <asac> you didnt care about that bug so he took it ... i will send a mail to it now ;)
[14:41] <asac> fta: i mean: if you dont want that debian uses a complete different approach you have to join forces in debian ... i will suggest to make a debian team for that. you can of course object on that mail ;) ... its for now my idea
[14:43] <fta> i don't mind either way. i feel it will end-up like nss & nspr
[14:44] <asac> fta: please whatever you can do join the debian folks
[14:44] <asac> otherwise its a single point of failure
[14:44] <asac> and people will ask when you are on holiday: why not merge from debian ... why duplicate efforts.
[14:44] <asac> the problem is too often that folks on debian side dont want that
[14:44] <asac> the work for you is the same ... maintain it in dbian and get it synched here
[14:45] <asac> if they are strict against such a team or turn out to be not-cooperative then it makes sense to look diverging downstream in ubuntu
[14:46]  * asac off for travel
[14:46] <fta> it seems to late now, everything is different, either i give up or we diverge
[14:46] <asac> fta: its definitly not too late. i think they should go for your work
[14:47] <asac> but one has to make compromises for the sake of not diverging the whole stack imo
[14:47] <fta> let's wait for his answer then
[14:47] <asac> at least you have to try
[14:47] <asac> you didnt try in the bug imo
[14:47] <asac> but yeah. lets see
[14:48] <asac> who knows maybe he is not even a DD
[14:48] <asac> often folks claim ITPs and then get nothing done
[14:49] <asac> ok travelling a bit ... cu later
[14:50] <asac> oh shit the preview of the notification thing now pops up dialogs instead of actionful notifications
[14:50] <asac> guess that means i am supposed to fix annoyances
[14:50] <asac> now gone
[14:50] <fta> cu
[14:50] <fta> gone too
[16:00] <asac> now on GSM
[16:00] <asac> thats _SLOW_
[16:00] <asac> but i can still type over ssh in screen
[16:07] <asac> quite stable still ...  nice i survived the same place where i usually got disconnect
[16:07] <asac> with staying online
[16:07] <asac> and even logged into ssh
[16:07] <asac> well ... not even, but yes.
[17:50] <Cruster> is network manager supposed to connect to a configured wireless WPA secured network before login?
[17:54] <Cruster> asac: can I ask you something about networkmanager (they pointed me to you...)
[17:54] <BUGabundo> Cruster: I think it can do so, IF the option System is on
[17:55] <Cruster> BUGabundo: this option is grayed out for me...even if I run as root
[17:55]  * BUGabundo check local system
[17:56] <BUGabundo> bah its not even here anymore
[17:56] <BUGabundo> on the PPA version of NM
[17:56] <Cruster> BUGabundo: ok...I'll have to wait then...
[17:58] <BUGabundo> Cruster: you will have to wait for asac to come back, to be sure
[18:01] <asac> Cruster: its supposed to do that if you configure your connection as a system connection
[18:01] <asac> Cruster: never run as root
[18:01] <asac> that doesnt change a hing
[18:01] <asac> thing
[18:01] <asac> it could even create hazard
[18:02] <Cruster> asac: thanks for answering. This option is grayed out for me...
[18:02] <BUGabundo> is it UP ?
[18:02]  * asac wonders why its still common to think one can achieve anything with running root
[18:02] <BUGabundo> are you using it right now, ie is it connected?
[18:02] <asac> never ever run anything as root :)
[18:02] <BUGabundo> asac: sudo cow powers
[18:03] <Cruster> i was too desperate :P yes connection works uppon login
[18:03] <asac> Cruster: not sure what you mean by greyed out
[18:03] <Cruster> asac: I cannot tick the option "system connection"
[18:04] <asac> Cruster: what kind of connection are you trying to change?
[18:04] <asac> Cruster: what version are you running?
[18:04] <BUGabundo> asac: I don't have that option on ANY of my connections
[18:04] <BUGabundo> with NM from PPA
[18:04] <asac> Cruster: do you have the keyfile plugin enabled
[18:04] <Cruster> yes it is enabled
[18:04] <asac> BUGabundo: it was renamed in 0.7 final to "allow all users"
[18:04] <asac> or seomthing
[18:05] <asac> Cruster: dont try to change auto connections. create new ones and directly tick that instead
[18:05]  * BUGabundo remembers the time where wifi would even connect BEFORE X (misses wifi-radar)
[18:05] <BUGabundo> ahh
[18:05] <BUGabundo> can that be put on Release Notes?
[18:05] <Cruster> it does it for any connection, even for new ones
[18:05] <BUGabundo> should I file a bug and tag it to release notes?
[18:05] <asac> BUGabundo: not sure why ;)
[18:05] <BUGabundo> 'cause upgrading users will be looking for it!
[18:05] <asac> BUGabundo: i dont think that makes sense
[18:06] <asac> BUGabundo: UI regularly changes on new ubuntu version
[18:06] <BUGabundo> I was having that discussion with crisum on ubuntu-devel-discuss the other day
[18:06] <BUGabundo> devs change stuff and leave user to "discover"
[18:06] <Cruster> ops, forgot to tell you that I'm talking about KDE...
[18:06] <asac> Cruster: thats not my business then
[18:06] <asac> the knetworkmanager applet is major unfinished
[18:07] <asac> use the gnome nm-applet instead
[18:07] <asac> if you want proper networkmanager support on kde in intrepid
[18:07] <Cruster> i'm not even on intrepid, it's jaunty here...
[18:07] <asac> Cruster: plasmaoid network-manager?
[18:07] <asac> Cruster: file a bug
[18:07] <asac> but i will probably not deal with it
[18:07] <Cruster> i'll do it, thanks
[18:08] <Cruster> for everything
[18:08] <asac> i think there are now three different versions of kde network-manager applet
[18:08] <asac> and none is finished
[18:08] <asac> sorry. i can only suggest to use the gnome one
[18:08] <Cruster> i can accept that, it's alpha ;)
[18:08] <asac> for now
[18:08] <asac> and file bugs and bug folks in #kubuntu-devel maybe
[18:08] <asac> Cruster: alpha? i mean they use that in the distro
[18:09] <asac> you mean jaunty is alpha yes ... but unless something really good happens i dont think there will be much improvements in this area
[18:09] <asac> in the past the kde folks made really slow progress on their nm applets
[18:09] <asac> and instead of finishing one they just start writing yet another one
[18:09] <Cruster> well, for me it's kinda acceptable
[18:10] <asac> Cruster: anyway. you can still start the nm-applet
[18:10] <asac> create your system connection
[18:10] <asac> then use the kde one i guess
[18:10] <Cruster> nice then
[18:10] <asac> at least that should help in getting a connection before startup
[18:10] <asac> bug #326571
[18:10] <Cruster> what's the name of the ubuntu packet?
[18:11] <asac> Cruster: network-manager-gnome
[18:11] <Cruster> ty
[18:11] <asac> np
[18:12] <asac> Nafallo: so you are not alone: bug 326571
[18:12] <asac> whats going on
[18:12] <asac> Nafallo: can you please help to track that down?
[18:12] <asac> i cannot reproduce it unfortunately
[18:12] <asac> i need to get a clue whether its a regression in dhclient or what
[18:13] <Nafallo> asac: you have those weird rfc lines in dhclient.conf?
[18:13] <asac> Nafallo: do we need them or not?
[18:14] <Nafallo> I commented them and it works again.
[18:14] <asac> Nafallo: i have that line and it didnet hurt:
[18:14] <asac> option rfc3442-classless-static-routes code 121 = array of unsigned integer 8;
[18:14] <Nafallo> asac: got avahi-autoipd installed?
[18:15] <asac> Nafallo: yes have it
[18:15] <Nafallo> asac: I don't :-)
[18:15]  * Nafallo ponders where changelogs live those days
[18:16] <asac> Nafallo: please check whether it helps to have it installed
[18:16]  * Nafallo found them on changelogs.ubuntu.com
[18:16] <BUGabundo> Nafallo: you mean changelogs.ubuntu.com
[18:16] <BUGabundo> and on LP ?
[18:16] <asac> Nafallo: and join the bug 326571
[18:17] <BUGabundo> ubottu: is getting lazy today
[18:17] <BUGabundo> or LP is SLOWWWWW
[18:18] <Nafallo>   * Added hook to dhclient to support RFC3442 (classless static route option)
[18:18] <Nafallo>     and add rfc3442-classless-static-routes to the options requested (closes:
[18:18] <Nafallo>     #396545)
[18:19] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhcp3/3.1.1-5ubuntu3
[18:19] <asac> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dhcp3/3.1.1-5ubuntu3
[18:19] <asac> hmm
[18:19] <asac> Nafallo: but i had that since ever as it seems
[18:20] <Nafallo> debian bug 396545
[18:20] <asac> Nafallo: can you check if avahi-autoipd installing helps
[18:20] <Q-FUNK> asac: here
[18:21] <asac> Q-FUNK: pleaes look at bug
[18:21] <Q-FUNK> the debian one?
[18:21] <asac> Q-FUNK: no at your bug
[18:21] <Q-FUNK> ah
[18:21] <Q-FUNK> just a sec
[18:22] <Q-FUNK> asac: ok.  I'll reply to that.  thanks.
[18:23] <Q-FUNK> can you already tell me, what would be the difference between with and without avahi-autoipd ?
[18:23] <Q-FUNK> i.e. is it supposed to introduce a regression if it's installed?
[18:23] <asac> Nafallo: when was that feature introduced?
[18:23] <asac> can you give a can you drop that info in the ubuntu bug?
[18:25] <Nafallo> asac: dhcp3 (3.1.1-2) unstable; urgency=low
[18:25] <Q-FUNK> I personally don't need that auoipd feature since I don't use rendez-vous, so if that can be a temporary workaround, I'd simply remove it for now.
[18:25] <BUGabundo> asac: xubuntu 8.10 full update (nm from archive I think) 3G not working
[18:25] <BUGabundo> will get serial logs when I get home, and hand them to you
[18:26] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: I have it uninstalled (since I don't use it either) and that bug still occurs. I was taking a stab in the dark I'm afraid.
[18:26] <BUGabundo> asac: using PPA NM can help fix that too?
[18:26] <BUGabundo> I still haven't tried last night fix on my machine either
[18:28] <Nafallo> asac: first step should be to try and find out what that hook is supposed to do.
[18:29] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: ok, that at least rules that one out
[18:31] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: our of interest. what's your wifi card and ap?
[18:32] <Q-FUNK> USB dongle with the zd1211rw driver
[18:32] <Q-FUNK> ap are different ones
[18:33] <Nafallo> that rules b0rked hardware out
[18:33] <Nafallo> well. hardware revisions
[18:38] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: you?
[18:38] <Nafallo> Q-FUNK: me?
[18:38] <plun> hello all !
[18:38] <plun> Any Thunderbird 3 guru ?     (ftas repo)
[18:39] <plun> Mozilla-teams repo... sorry !
[18:40] <BUGabundo> plun: ping fta
[18:40] <BUGabundo> not here right now AFAIK
[18:40] <BUGabundo> asac: ping are you here?
[18:41] <asac> Nafallo: finding out what it means comes second imo. first we should track down the facts. e.g. does avahi help, does downgrading dhclient help.
[18:41] <plun> OK... I always ping fta...  must be more then Fabien which knows  ;)
[18:41] <plun> Is TB3 broken within ppa ?  Works fine with nightly build for me
[18:41] <Nafallo> asac: downgrade to intrepid?
[18:41] <asac> plun: current dailies are a bit broken
[18:42] <plun> asac:  OK thanks !
[18:42] <asac> Nafallo: nto sure i guess the first jaunty version shoujld be ok to test too
[18:42] <asac> plun: downgrade to the build from 9th feb
[18:42] <asac> pick the bits manually from -daily
[18:42] <asac> i think they should be available there still
[18:42] <plun> asac: OK thanks !
[18:43] <Nafallo> asac: dhcp3 (3.1.1-5ubuntu1) jaunty; urgency=low
[18:43] <Nafallo>   * Merge from Debian unstable. Remaining Ubuntu changes
[18:43] <Nafallo> that one?
[18:43] <asac> plun: we will fix asap
[18:43] <asac> Nafallo: you found a changelog entry that sounded suspicious
[18:43] <asac> Nafallo: try the package before and the package after that
[18:43] <plun> asac:  superb service   ;)
[18:43] <Nafallo> asac: cause this was merged in from Debian unstable (3.1.1-2)
[18:44] <BUGabundo> brb... kiling PA, so pidgin will crash
[18:44] <asac> plun: i think fta has disabled the build for now ... so if a new -daily build appears in ppa its probably fixed
[18:45] <plun> asac: no problem.... nightly works OK, I just prefer running a Ubuntu build ;)
[18:45] <Nafallo> asac: hence why intrepid is the lastest version without it.
[18:45] <Nafallo> +spelling
[18:45] <Nafallo> ✁☹
[18:45] <asac> Nafallo: go to launchpad ... download the debs in reverse order till its fixed
[18:45] <asac> oops ;)
[18:45] <asac> sorry read an old message
[18:45] <Nafallo> asac: stop reading old messages damnit! :-P
[18:45] <asac> Nafallo: if thats the latest version without it verify that its broken in first jaunty uploda
[18:46] <asac> and that its fixed in last intrepid
[18:46] <BUGabundo> back
[18:46] <Nafallo> asac: looking at the changelog it won't be fixed :-P
[18:46] <Nafallo> (in jaunty)
[18:47] <asac> Nafallo: you never know
[18:47] <Nafallo> asac: look... we already know which hook it troublesome :-)
[18:47] <Q-FUNK> ah, the culprit change has been found?
[18:47] <asac> Nafallo: still ... please verify that thats the real cause.
[18:47] <asac> Nafallo: then we need to think what to do
[18:47] <Nafallo> asac: in my opinion it's much better to spend time in finding out WHY it's broken :-)
[18:47]  * Q-FUNK watches magic happen
[18:47] <BUGabundo> asac: xubuntu 8.10 full update (nm from archive I think) 3G not working
[18:47] <BUGabundo> will get serial logs when I get home, and hand them to you
[18:47] <BUGabundo> I still haven't tried last night fix on my machine either
[18:48] <Nafallo> asac: also... we know it worked in intrepid. I didn't dist-upgrade this machine when jaunty opened :-)_
[18:48] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: checking packages before and after will enable that to happen.  after you spotted which package introduced the bug, a run of 'diff' should help us narrow down the exact cause
[18:48] <asac> Nafallo: well. i just want to be sure its not a red herring ;)
[18:49] <asac> testing the intrepid package must be _easy_
[18:49] <asac> compared to finding the bug or sorting out what to do if we have to accept that the stateless option breaks this
[18:50] <Nafallo> asac: ooh. ii  dhcp3-client   3.1.1-1ubuntu2
[18:50] <asac> Q-FUNK: can you check the dhcp3-client packages and see if its fixed in intrepid?
[18:51] <Nafallo> asac: that means intrepid is the version right before the DD added that hook
[18:51] <asac> Nafallo: see ;)
[18:51] <Q-FUNK> asac: come again?
[18:51] <asac> Nafallo: that works?
[18:51] <Nafallo> asac: worked on intrepid
[18:51] <asac> Nafallo: now we need to find the diff he used to add the hook
[18:51] <asac> Nafallo: yes, but will it work with intrepid package in jaunty
[18:51] <asac> ?
[18:51] <Q-FUNK> yes, intrepid worked fine
[18:51] <Nafallo> asac: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=396545
[18:52] <asac> do what you want
[18:52] <asac> i cannot investigate before knowning that its really that hook. for me it woks with that config
[18:52] <asac> it could be that the same merge or a later merge regressed this
[18:52] <Q-FUNK> asac: do you have multiple network interfaces on your hardware?
[18:52] <Nafallo> asac: I commented out the option and the request. and it works now.
[18:53] <Nafallo> asac: what possibly more info could you need?
[18:53] <asac> Nafallo: that only says that you uncover the bug with that option
[18:53] <asac> but doesnt really say that its the option in general that caused this
[18:53] <asac> maybe first jaunty package worked with that option
[18:53] <asac> and current one is broken because someone else broke it during merge
[18:54] <Nafallo> that was the merge... but okay.
[18:54] <Q-FUNK> erm.  the diff attached to that bug already hints at major moronism:  trying to backport a dhcp4 feature to a dhcp3 client.
[18:54]  * BUGabundo feels ignored
[18:54] <asac> Nafallo: i still dont know which merge it is
[18:54] <asac> Nafallo: post that to the bug ;)
[18:55] <asac> also there were multiple uploads in jaunty
[18:56] <Nafallo> asac: yes. three apparently. kees playing with MTU and jamie playing with apparmor.
[18:56] <Nafallo> ouch!
[18:56] <Nafallo> I just walked into a door
[18:57] <asac> Nafallo: sorry ;)
[18:57] <asac> Nafallo: could you at least test whether avahi-autoipd has something to do with this at all?
[18:58] <Nafallo> asac: Q-FUNK having it installed isn't evidence enough? :-)
[18:58]  * Nafallo have to head off to the shower or he'll be late.
[18:59] <Nafallo> and no asac. you can't watch on cam ;-)
[18:59] <asac> heh
[19:00] <Q-FUNK> ok, let's say that I can try something crazy, even though I don't have my jaunty host on hand.  I can temporarily upgrade another host...
[19:00] <Q-FUNK> Nafallo: bummer!  you almost brought the valentine spirit to the channel! :-P
[19:05] <Q-FUNK> asac:  ok, I seem to have avahi-autoipd on this laptop. let's try a temporary upgrade to jaunty and see whether disabling that RFC3442 option in dhcp3-client.conf fixes it here too.
[19:06]  * Q-FUNK launches a dist-upgrade
[19:07] <Q-FUNK> asac: the main thing to compare was whether having avahi-autoipd installed made anhy difference, in addition to disabling that 3442 option?
[19:07] <Q-FUNK> ok. cannot dist-upgrade using update-manager.  it barfs over a unfulfilable dependencies for ubuntu-desktop...
[19:10] <asac> Q-FUNK: well. so if rfc option helps you
[19:10] <asac> Q-FUNK: just check whether avahi-autoipd would help too
[19:10] <asac> i dont think it makes a difference
[19:10] <Q-FUNK> erm... you meant if disabling that rfc option helps, with or without avahi-autoipd ?
[19:11] <asac> Q-FUNK: no a) does isabling rfc help
[19:11] <asac> b) does avahi-autoipd help to not need a)
[19:12] <Q-FUNK> ok
[19:13] <Q-FUNK> afaik, I have avahi-autoipd on that test host (not located in this house, so I cannot chekc now), since local-link exists and did not solve anything.  at least, I remember that I had routes for both local-link and my AP
[19:14] <asac> thats goodenough
[19:16] <Q-FUNK> but no default route
[19:17] <asac> its a bit strange since i have the same option on and didnt see any issues
[19:17] <asac> but maybe its a buggy dhcp server
[19:17] <Q-FUNK> asac: but do you have multiple network interfaces?
[19:17] <asac> you know which dhcp server you have? maybe it supports classless static routes and doesnt deliver default route
[19:18] <asac> Q-FUNK: i have .... and the syslog nafallow showed me looked like its just that dhclient doesnt get any gateway info
[19:18] <Q-FUNK> asac: no idea.  the dhcp server is whatever is in the wireless AP.
[19:20] <asac> meaning: eithe rits a bug in server ... or its a bug in dhclient in that it doesnt properly guess the right gateway
[19:20] <asac> what AP is that?
[19:22] <Q-FUNK> speedswitch ... something
[19:23] <Q-FUNK> I'm not currently at the location where my test host is located.  however, IIRC I had the same problem here at home with my wrt54gl running white russian.
[19:25] <asac> Nafallo: Q-FUNK: so is anyone able to reproduce it _right_ now?
[19:25] <asac> if so, please keep the option enabled and move the exit hook
[19:26] <asac> to some other place
[19:26] <Q-FUNK> asac: I'm currently dist-upgrading this laptop to try the same test as on my usual test host.
[19:26] <asac> Q-FUNK: e.g. sudo su; mv /etc/dhcp3/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/rfc3442-classless-routes ~
[19:26] <asac> k
[19:26] <asac> thanks
[19:28] <Q-FUNK> yup
[19:28] <Q-FUNK> erm... wait... you want me to move it away from the exit hook directory?
[19:29] <asac> Q-FUNK: first check whether its reproducible ... then move it away. yes
[19:29] <asac> that exit hook looks bogus
[19:29] <asac> well .. at least hacky
[19:31] <Q-FUNK> it definitely looks so
[19:43] <asac> so i picked a bunch  of neighbour APs
[19:43] <asac> none has this problem
[19:43] <asac> unfortunately
[19:44] <Cruster> you need any help in testing?
[19:45] <asac> Cruster: if you se the bug try to remove the exit hook from above
[19:46] <Cruster> i am just wondering if you need a bug confirmation
[19:48] <asac> Cruster: well. if thats a question unrelated to the rfc344... issue from above, i always need help in bug triaging
[19:48] <asac> Cruster: going through new/incomplete/confirmed bug against firefox-3.0
[19:48] <asac> and checking wehther enough informatoin is there
[19:49] <asac> and bringing the bug in the normalized form like:
[19:49] <asac> see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/NormalizedBugFormat
[19:49] <asac> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/TriagersHandbook
[19:49] <asac> Cruster: ^^
[19:50] <Cruster> brb dinner time, i'll look them l8er
[19:50] <Nafallo> asac: not in the shower, no :-)
[20:28] <Q-FUNK> asac: about 40 minutes to completion of dist-upgrade on this laptop.
[20:29] <asac> Nafallo: now out of shower?
[20:29] <asac> ;)
[20:29] <Q-FUNK> heh
[20:31] <Nafallo> asac: yea. and in half hour out of the building as well.
[20:49] <asac> Nafallo: ok all fine. i think i know what to take
[20:50] <Nafallo> god damn IRC. I got stuck again :-/
[20:51] <asac> heh
[20:51] <asac> Nafallo: go partying now ;)
[20:52] <Nafallo> need to make the bed, clean up a bit and might consider putting a bit more than my robe on.
[20:52] <Nafallo> :-P
[22:27] <BUGabundo> asac: ping
[23:21] <fta> asac, i didn't deactive tb3 in my bot
[23:21] <BUGabundo> hi fta
[23:21] <fta> i thought the issue would be fixed quickly :(
[23:22] <fta> BUGabundo, hi
[23:22] <fta> ohoh, new pulseaudio
[23:22] <fta> ~test2 :)
[23:23] <BUGabundo> yep
[23:23] <BUGabundo> fixed 3 bugs I had with test1
[23:23] <BUGabundo> \0/
[23:25] <fta> and new deluge, let's hope it fixes some of my bugs too
[23:26] <BUGabundo> didn had any big bugs
[23:26] <BUGabundo> but I think I was already using upstream deb
[23:26] <BUGabundo> or 0.11
[23:27] <BUGabundo> not sure
[23:27] <fta> 0.11?
[23:27] <BUGabundo> or what ever was before
[23:28] <BUGabundo> 1.1.1
[23:29] <fta> Preparing to replace deluge 1.0.7.dfsg-3 (using .../deluge_1.1.2.dfsg-1_all.deb) ...
[23:30] <BUGabundo> humm
[23:30] <BUGabundo> really old version
[23:30] <BUGabundo> weren't you using the PPA?
[23:30] <fta> no
[23:31] <BUGabundo> asac: do you have any idea of whom is network-config upstream? do they reply/active?
[23:31] <fta> this ppa looks ugly and weak
[23:31] <fta> boom http://paste.ubuntu.com/118204/
[23:44] <fta> hm, no more opengl, wtf?
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> asac: can we have NM NOT prefer wired ?
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> I can't share my 3G net
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> I know its not a common use
[23:52] <BUGabundo1> but I'm not even able to use firestater to change that
[23:53] <BUGabundo1> everytime I have both 3g and eth0, nm defaults to using wired
[23:53] <BUGabundo1> and I loose my internet connection


 @mitya57, ppc64el and s390x still waiting to build. Are the buildds disabled?
 @mitya57, Yes, try asking cjwatson to unblock
[13:38]  * mitya57 clicks the publish button for qtbase merge
[13:40] <mitya57> What do you guys think about OpenGL ES vs desktop OpenGL on arm64? Currently that is our major delta from Debian, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=799113#10 explains why the Debian will not use OpenGL ES there.
[13:41] <mitya57> I would like to drop that delta eventually, but I don’t want to break popular hardware like Raspberry Pi 3. Any ideas?
 @LocutusOfBorg, openmw built fine on amd64 and i386; won't build on arm* because it needs the desktop OpenGL, needs build on ppc64el and s390x.
 @mitya57, I don't know the particular technical details but I absolutely do not want to break arm64 builds just in case Lubuntu wants a Pi 3 image 😉


[12:53] <litwel> hello
[12:54] <litwel> do you know where I could find some more info on the graphical boot menu?


[00:09] <gf2> Hello. I am finding bugs that are at incomplete status since 2014. Why weren't they removed/expired?
[00:21] <gf2> Hello. I am finding bugs that are at incomplete status since 2007. Why weren't they removed/expired?
[00:30] <gf2> Hi can someone answer a question please?
[19:47] <gf2> Hello hggdh, if a reporter says the bug is not a problem anymore and to close the ticket, that means that the problem was fixed. I have been using "Invalid" status to close tickets. Should I be using "fix released" for the situation above?
[19:58] <rbasak> gf2: Fix Released implies that there was a valid bug and the source was somehow changed to fix that bug.
[19:59] <rbasak> gf2: far more often somebody reports a problem as a "bug" and then discovers some way to fix the problem with no source code change. In that case the bug was always "Invalid".
[19:59] <rbasak> (ie. user error, etc)
[20:00] <rbasak> gf2: I'd err on Invalid over Fix Released, since otherwise somebody affected by a similar problem is going to start asking which version it was fixed in to try that, etc, which I think is misleading.
[20:00] <rbasak> That's just my opinion.
[20:04] <gf2> ok, good, rbasak! Thanks for the clarification. I was unsure. One reporter insisted that it had to be "fix released" and that made me wonder. Thanks.
[20:05] <gf2>  On a different question, rbasak: 	How do I test the beta version of TB without messing up my existing install?
[20:07] <rbasak> gf2: yeah I'd just to politely explain that if there's no fix it can't have been released and to say so may be misleading to others.
[20:07] <rbasak> gf2: try a container or VM maybe? A container should work well enough. There are instructions on how to let it connect to your X server etc.
[20:11] <gf2> OK. thanks. It is the Mozilla people who are saying that version 52 of thunderbird is almost end of life and asking me if it is an issue in version 60. Version 52 is the standard release. Version 60 is the beta. I am not sure if the bug triager is supposed to be testing bugs on beta versions? Do you know if I should be doing that?
[20:12] <rbasak> You're volunteering your time, so it's entirely up to you how far you want to go with it.
[20:13] <rbasak> If it turns out to still affect version 60, then it will have been helpful to the community for you to have identified that and reported it as such upstream.
[20:13] <rbasak> Since then upstream might be able to take care of fixing it.
[20:14] <gf2> True. Also, if I test it in beta and say the bug isn't a problem in the beta, do I tell the reporter to just wait until the next version comes out?
[20:14] <rbasak> If it turns out not to affect version 60, then it is helpful for others to know that (they can plan to wait or a developer can attempt a backport etc), but ultimately it makes no difference in the long run.
[20:16] <rbasak> Waiting isn't the only option. A volunteer developer could fix it in a stable release in Ubuntu even.
[20:17] <rbasak> The main thing is to set the reporter's expectations on what will, won't and may happen. I wouldn't want to make "just wait" final, since that implies that it won't be fixed in a stable release, and that's not quite true - valid bugs generally just need developers to address them.
[20:17] <rbasak> "just"
[20:17] <rbasak> OTOH, I wouldn't advise the reporter that a fix for a stable release of Ubuntu is around the corner unless there's a developer committed to working on it.
[20:18] <rbasak> I usually try to make sure the reporter understands that something awaits a volunteer.
[20:18] <gf2> ok, thanks, rbasak. That gives me a lot to think about. I am working on really old tickets and it feels weird to ask someone to wait yet again.
[20:18] <gf2> But explaining about "awaits a volunteer" is a good idea :)
[20:18] <rbasak> Working on old bugs is particular difficult IMHO, since reporters sometimes get reminded about having reported something and get angry about it not having been addressed previously.
[20:19] <gf2> I've had mostly positive responses :)
[20:19] <rbasak> Great!
[20:19] <gf2> Some sarcastic
[20:19] <gf2> not bad
[20:20] <hggdh> rbasak: thank you for answering :-)
[20:20] <rbasak> IMHO it's all about setting expectations. People get less frustrated if they know that something isn't going to happen unless something volunteers, vs. expecting that something is about to happen just because they reported something.
[20:20] <rbasak> You're welcome :)
[20:21] <gf2> But I have covered 990 tickets in 2 weeks. It has been a good experience and I am learning a lot. You are right about expectations. Very true :)
[20:21] <hggdh> gf2: just so you know, my ral-life work is completely different. Usually, weekends I am dealing with the normal real-life thingies, and rarely at the keyboard
[20:22] <gf2> so sorry, hggdh . I thought you were the head bug triager :)
[20:22] <gf2> rbasak has been answering my questions :)
[20:23] <hggdh> gf2: no problem. bdmurray is the actual bug meister
[20:23] <gf2> Many thanks to rbasak! and bd murray, who has helped me in the past.
[20:24] <hggdh> but -- in general -- any of us here can answer. I have been a bit off re. Ubuntu for a while, due to this thing of earning money
[20:25] <gf2> is there a timezone thing? Are you all in England/Europe? I am in Canada and 5 hours behind you
[20:26] <hggdh> gf2: I live in the US, rbasak around London (give or take a few hundred miles), I think. It is a truly international setup
[20:27] <rbasak> I'm in Europe/London. I work on Ubuntu full time, so am generally around UK office hours but have IRC open so I see things if I use a computer at other times.
[20:28] <gf2> ok, that helps. I work full time and work on bug triaging in evenings and on weekends. I started only recently and sometimes have questions. Thanks for all your help, you two! :)
[20:28] <hggdh> gf2: you are welcome, we we appreciate the help
[20:29] <gf2> There are 79 people in the room. Are they actually all there? or just absent from their keyboard?
[20:35] <hggdh> gf2: sort of. Some of us that deal/dealt with bugs tend to stay here (logged in). This does not mean we are actually looking at what goes on in the channel, or even at the keyboard
[20:35] <hggdh> but we tend to have a go at the backlog when we come back to the channel
[20:36] <gf2> OK, thanks for the info, hggdh.  Have a great night everyone. :)
[20:36] <hggdh> gf2: good night


[00:49] <kellydays> On September 3rd 1939, the Allies declared war on Germany, leading to the subsequent half a decade long world war. Before Chamberlain died he revealed America and World Jews forced Britain into war against Germany (mentioned in The Forrestal Diaries from 1945.)
[02:39] <Shawn|4650M> how come chrome and firefox with flashplayer is unstable on even good hardware?
[16:21] <freelancerbob> hi i have problem with some videos in opera browser
[16:21] <freelancerbob> it is still loading
[16:21] <freelancerbob> ...
[16:21] <freelancerbob> for example http://www.mojevideo.sk/video/28629/ktora_gulocka_bude_prva_v_cieli.html
[16:21] <freelancerbob> in chrome it works ok


[08:24] <dholbach> good morning
[08:43] <dholbach> how would you feel about rolling ubuntu-motu@ into ubuntu-devel-discuss@?
[08:44] <dholbach> for me it's too mail queues of spam to look through and it looks like the topics on both lists are largely the same
[08:44] <dholbach> any opinions?
[09:15] <Laney> dholbach: why don't you make your filters put them in the same place?
[09:15] <Laney> -devel-discuss is too noisy for me so I will never read motu topics there
[09:15] <dholbach> (?)
[09:15] <dholbach> listadmin
[09:16] <dholbach> spam queue on lists.u.c itself
[09:16] <dholbach> don't the two lists have roughly the same amount of traffic?
[09:16] <dholbach> ah no, not quite
[09:17] <Laney> motu's pretty quiet
[09:17] <dholbach> well... I find it easy to look at the subject and see if it's something I should get involved in
[09:17] <dholbach> it's just that u-motu attracts lots of spam
[09:17] <dholbach> and at some stage I'd like to cut down the amount of lists and spam I go through
[09:17] <Laney> I know about the pain of moderating ubuntu lists
[09:17] <Laney> we have really crap spam filtering


[15:01] <dzho> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3509439 <- thafreak
[15:02] <dzho> between the Arduino and the Beagleboard, I'm not sure what the Pi's niche is, here, in light of this conversation.
[15:05] <thafreak> did I miss something...what's going on with the raspberry pi's project?
[15:05] <thafreak> it's like those comments are about something in an article that I haven't read...
[15:07] <thafreak> nm i figured out how to get to parent comments
[15:08] <thafreak> meh, beagle board costs $150...raspberry pi is aiming for $25...
[15:08] <thafreak> I'd get a raspberry pi, so long as it can run stock linux eventually
[15:09] <thafreak> i'm always on the lookout for low cost arm machines that have ethernet and that can attach storage to
[15:09] <thafreak> I'm hoping to build low cost devices I can leave at customers locations to give me remote network statistics and help with remote access problems.
[18:46] <Cheri703> Unit193: :/ going to have to cancel tonight
[18:47] <Unit193> Alright, will do
[18:54] <Unit193> Anything I needed to help with or say?
[18:58] <Cheri703> no, not really :) it's generally just us anyway
[18:58] <Unit193> Heh, but that's still fun for me :P
[19:29] <Cheri703> I enjoy having them, I just have a TON of stuff I have to do today
[19:29] <Unit193> Yep, I get it
[20:39] <dzho> thafreak: the point is, it will probably *never* run stock linux
[20:39] <dzho> that's the problem with all of ARM--all of it needs all these tune-ups to run on each customized ARM chip and board
[20:42] <dzho> http://lkml.org/lkml/2011/7/1/473


[09:56] <tdr112> morning all
[10:17] <aflynn> Morning
[10:17] <ebel> morning
[10:19] <slashtom> good morning
[10:23] <tdr112> so good night out anyway
[10:24] <ebel> yeah
[11:43] <czajkowski> aliha
[11:43] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:45] <ebel> yo
[11:46] <czajkowski> so ye more canonical folks
[11:48] <slashtom> morning cztab
[13:32] <tdr112> hey cztab
[13:33] <tdr112> it was a great idea setting up a meetup with them
[18:35] <czajkowski> tdr112: congrats on finsihed
[18:35] <czajkowski> tdr112: happy it went well? who did you get talking to
[19:09] <tdr112> czajkowski: not sure some many names
[19:09] <tdr112> yep happy to be finsihed
[19:17] <czajkowski> cool
[21:54] <airurando> good evening ubuntu-ie
[21:55] <airurando> I managed to get a few photos last night before the battery door broke on my camera.
[21:55] <airurando> quite pleased with the few I got
[21:55] <airurando> wished I had the chance to get more :(
[21:55] <airurando> the one I got are at:
[21:55] <airurando> http://pix.ie/ubuntuie/album/414407
[21:56] <airurando> If others have some pics of the event please add them to that pix.ie album
[22:18] <czajkowski> cool