[12:00] <|junit|> is there a way ubuntu can automatically recover grub?
[12:00] <thenuke> with simple commands you should able to install it again
[12:00] <randabis> best way would probably be to use a livecd and chroot
[12:00] <pauldaoust> Khan: well, maybe, if you feel like it, you could mark down any dangerous-sounding messages on a piece of paper... that is, if the keyboard isn't locked at that point too.
[12:00] <sladen> hello kandinski
[12:00] <thenuke> if you are able to get to run the grub that is
[12:01] <pauldaoust> Ribs: so the general consensus is that you folks use inches for length, but kilos for weight?
[12:01] <|junit|> I have a Gentoo LiveCD
[12:01] <|junit|> will that work
[12:01] <Ribs> pauldaoust: Depends who you talk to
[12:01] <Ribs> the older generation use pounds and onces for weight
[12:01] <pauldaoust> Ribs: :) so it's a bit half-and-half then
[12:01] <lonewolff> in britain we tend to use metric measurmeants , except older people
[12:01] <Ribs> yes
[12:01] <Ribs> for distance, we use miles
[12:02] <Ribs> so you know
[12:02] <CarlK> junit - you should use a nick that doesn't require shit
[12:02] <pauldaoust> Ribs: so if it's meant for 40-something businesspeople, I could be safe using metres and kilos?
[12:02] <bascule> lonewolff: except miles, we still like those :)
[12:02] <Ribs> and I think that's purely 'cos changing all the road signs would be a pain in the ass.
[12:02] <sladen> |junit|: fire up the livecd, drop to a console (Alt-F2), mount your main partition, chroot into it and run install-grub
[12:02] <pauldaoust> Ribs: heh
[12:02] <junit> ok
[12:02] <junit> that better
[12:02] <CarlK> junit - thanks.  gentoo cd will work
[12:02] <lonewolff> yeah except miles, which is odd really if u think about it
[12:02] <CarlK> but... do you get a grub promt when you boot?
[12:02] <junit> No
[12:02] <Ribs> pauldaoust: I guess, yeah
[12:02] <junit> it just goes to error 22
[12:02] <pauldaoust> Ribs: let me tell you, it's exhilarating being allowed to drive 100... just seeing that number on a road sign makes you feel fast, even if it's just 60 mi :)
[12:03] <pauldaoust> Ribs: well, thanks for all your help; I really appreciate it.
[12:03] <junit> i think Hoary screwed it up
[12:03] <CarlK> junit - so no "press escape" or anything ?
[12:03] <Ribs> pauldaoust: Given you're canadian, and use metric more than we do, you'll probabily be okay
[12:03] <junit> negative
[12:03] <pauldaoust> koo
[12:03] <Ribs> they'll be more understanding
[12:03] <pauldaoust> (ironically, we still use a lot of imperial measurements too :) )
[12:03] <pauldaoust> Khan: how ya doing?
[12:03] <CarlK> junit - then gentoo cd
[12:03] <junit> I don't know where to start with the Gentoo CD
[12:04] <Khan> Sorry man I had a phone call.
[12:04] <pauldaoust> Khan: no prob :)
[12:04] <sladen> junit: do you have the Ubuntu install CD?  You can get a shell from that
[12:04] <CarlK> junit - gentoo cd is basicaly a Live cd with the things you need to install gentoo
[12:04] <junit> yes, I have a gentoo install cd
[12:04] <junit> i mean ubuntu
[12:04] <junit> =/
[12:05] <neiras> junit, is Ubuntu the only os on your hard drive?
[12:05] <Khan> pauldaoust: Ok so I should try that and write down anything that looks important?
[12:05] <junit> 2 ubuntu's
[12:05] <neiras> which partition contains the installation you want to boot into?
[12:05] <pauldaoust> CarlK: did anyone answer you about that aplay -l thingy?
[12:05] <CarlK> junit - you shrould really get either DSL or Knoppix (depending on your connection speed)
[12:05] <junit> after i installed hoary, i think it messed something up
[12:05] <CarlK> pauldaoust - nope
[12:05] <pauldaoust> Khan: yeah, try that out... see if you can find anything
[12:05] <junit> How Do I get to the shell from the ubuntu cd?
[12:05] <Khan> Alright. Will do right now :)
[12:06] <Khan> Thanks
[12:06] <neiras> junit, put the Ubuntu install disc in, then type linux root=/dev/hda1
[12:06] <pauldaoust> junit: it should be near the bottom of the installation menu.
[12:06] <neiras> at the prompt
[12:06] <neiras> or listen to pauldaoust
[12:06] <pauldaoust> Khan: I'm wondering if your card supports multiple streams? I don't have one of those myself, but maybe that's what it looks like :)
[12:06] <pauldaoust> not Khan
[12:06] <krism> KHAAAAN
[12:06] <pauldaoust> I meant CarlK
[12:06] <krism> erm. sorry
[12:06] <junit> Crud, I'm not sure what partition it is on, ill try 1
[12:06] <pauldaoust> ha ha
[12:06] <Khan> ... :P
[12:07] <junit> Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unkown block
[12:07] <neiras> ok
[12:07] <neiras> wrong partition
[12:07] <pauldaoust> CarlK: so yeah, when I said to Khan that their card supports multiple streams, I meant to say it to you :)
[12:07] <junit> hmm
[12:07] <CarlK> pauldaoust - got it
[12:07] <junit> ill keep going down the list
[12:07] <pauldaoust> coo
[12:08] <sladen> junit: if you're getting that error, it means that grub is fine, but it's being passed the wrong  root=/dev/XXXX
[12:08] <pauldaoust> hey, folks, I have to get back to work. Khan, if you do find any messages, I'm sure someone would be able to help you out. Good luck!
[12:08] <junit> hmm
[12:08] <kandinski> sladen, hey!
[12:08] <kandinski> how is Seven Sisters?
[12:08] <neiras> sladen - he's trying to boot into a system using the install cd, not getting that error after grub
[12:08] <mz2> how come in OOo Calc in hoary things get moved out of my way when I paste stuff
[12:09] <sladen> kandinski: hello again
[12:09] <haggai> mz2: it's a bug and will be fixed in the next upload
[12:09] <haggai> mz2: you can work around it by using paste special
[12:09] <sladen> kandinski: not sure.  I'm currently in Edinburgh, then going ->Paris->Brussels->Frankfurt->Dublin :)
[12:10] <kandinski> oooh
[12:10] <kandinski> lotsa work!
[12:10] <junit> um...
[12:10] <junit> Something is up
[12:10] <neiras> junit, got it going?
[12:10] <kandinski> I might do the Madrid->Duisburg->Passau->Paris->Madrid->London->Hamburg->Madrid soon too
[12:10] <ShadeofGrey> holy crap guys! i tried to install the amd64 version of ubuntu and ended up almost losing my whole system! it autoset the grub bootloader to only include ubuntu and screwed the rest of my masterbootrecord
[12:10] <krism> OMGF
[12:11] <ShadeofGrey> thank god for my spare copy of Fedora Core 3
[12:11] <junit> I looked in the partitioner, and it said it was partition 2, but it still kernel panics
[12:11] <krism> *cough*
[12:11] <junit> it says please appened a correct root= boot option
[12:11] <mz2> haggai, actually it's kind of useful :)
[12:11] <neiras> junit: Hmm
[12:11] <mz2> don't take it away from me :))
[12:11] <ShadeofGrey> and after the ubuntu install it wouldnt boot at all
[12:11] <ShadeofGrey> it kept getting stuck at the hot something manager
[12:12] <ShadeofGrey> i dont understand tho... i douwnloaded the liveCD first and it ran fine!
[12:12] <ShadeofGrey> what gives?
[12:12] <junit> I don't know what to do
[12:12] <ShadeofGrey> jesus that was scary
[12:12] <randabis> livecd != install cd by any means
[12:12] <haggai> mz2: heh, well it can be annoying too, and confuses everyone who knows OOo from other platforms
[12:13] <haggai> mz2: you can do that by using paste special anyway
[12:13] <mz2> ShadeofGrey, do you have any exotic stuff plugged in your computer that might be brought up by hotplug?
[12:13] <randabis> you should also try the amd64 hoary install cds...I hear they work better than the old warty one
[12:13] <junit> =(
[12:13] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: Well... isnt it logical to assume that if the LiveCD boots fine with no errors that the regular install will be based on at least the same BASIC components?
[12:13] <CarlK> junit - how many physical drives do you have?
[12:13] <mz2> haggai, i'm just going to lock my openoffice packages and keep this version for ever and ever :)
[12:14] <krism> ShadeofGrey : hear of backups?
[12:14] <haggai> mz2: hehe ok then :)
[12:14] <ShadeofGrey> mz2: none i can think of
[12:14] <junit> I have 2
[12:14] <junit> 1*
[12:14] <mz2> haggai, how can i actually do that with paste special? i would've actually needed to do that a few days ago
[12:14] <CarlK> junit - ide or scsi?
[12:14] <haggai> mz2: something about shift cells down I think (OOo isn't loaded atm)
[12:14] <junit> ide
[12:15] <ShadeofGrey> krism: sure! but the winner of the arstechnica distribution of the year award shouldnt require backups period
[12:15] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, the livecd you used could have been for i386
[12:15] <INRSboy> can i use rpm on ubuntu ?
[12:15] <AndyR> xdmcp is now working here :)
[12:15] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: okay. i can accept that
[12:15] <krism> ShadeofGrey : wow! my car is so safe, i shouldn't have to wear my seatbelt@!
[12:15] <tritium> INRSboy, should be installed
[12:15] <mz2> haggai, oh right... there it is. this is something new to 1.1.3 isn't it?
[12:15] <krism> see the flaw in your logic yet? shit happens sometimes.
[12:15] <CarlK> junit - using /dev/hda1 terms, where do you want grub, where is the kernel and where shoudl / be mounted?
[12:15] <mz2> or have i just been a bit blind
[12:16] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, again, I recommend the newer hoary cds and not the warty ones for amd64
[12:16] <INRSboy> tritium: and if it' s installed
[12:16] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: where do i get the hoary CD's?
[12:16] <junit> CarlK- I am confused about what you are askin =/
[12:16] <haggai> mz2: I don't think it is new, but I never really needed it so I wouldn't have noticed
[12:16] <tritium> INRSboy, yes, you can use it.  I personally wouldn't, but you can.
[12:16] <mz2> ok
[12:16] <randabis> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hoary/
[12:16] <junit> my root partition is on /dev/hda2
[12:17] <INRSboy> tritium: ok then if no .deb exist ?
[12:17] <Octane> can someone please help me? for the second time, im trying to apt-uget upgrade all my packages and dpkg returns a parse error
[12:17] <Pluk> INRSboy, you can use alien to convert rpm to .deb
[12:17] <junit> Should I make a grub boot floppy?
[12:17] <Octane> talking about update-mime
[12:17] <junit> because i have another ubuntu computer in the house
[12:17] <ShadeofGrey> im hesitant to even bother with ubuntu if the default settings for the bootloader totally disregard all other drives and installations WITHOUT ASKING ANY QUESTIONS OR OFFERING INTERACTION BEFORE MAKING CRITICAL CHANGES TO THE MBR
[12:17] <INRSboy> ok
[12:18] <junit> would that be the easiest way
[12:18] <tritium> INRSboy, what software?
[12:18] <CarlK> junit - it might help
[12:18] <INRSboy> tritium, kile
[12:18] <ShadeofGrey> thats a SERIOUS oversight
[12:18] <junit> ok...
[12:18] <tritium> INRSboy, that's in universe in Hoary
[12:18] <Pluk> if i were grub i would ignore the windows partition too :D
[12:18] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: which array should i get?
[12:19] <Octane> anyone have any idea before i scrap ubuntu all together
[12:19] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, that's not the case
[12:19] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, the latest 4...or you could see if anything newer is in current...array 4 should be good though
[12:19] <INRSboy> tritium, i'm newbie on deb so i can i do that ?
[12:19] <SiRrUs> Octane whats your problem
[12:19] <tritium> INRSboy, are you using Warty or Hoary?
[12:19] <Octane> i try to upgrade all my packages from apt-get and dpkg returns a parse error
[12:19] <INRSboy> tritium, warty
[12:19] <Octane> off a fresh install
[12:20] <Pluk> kile is in universe
[12:20] <robtaylor> Octane: have you modified your apt.sources?
[12:20] <Octane> no i havent touched them
[12:20] <tritium> Pluk, yes
[12:20] <INRSboy> ok pluk
[12:20] <tritium> But in Hoary
[12:20] <Pluk> ah thats possible
[12:20] <ShadeofGrey> tritium: what do you mean that s not the case... thats EXACTLY what happened
[12:20] <robtaylor> Octane: can you post the exact error at pastebin.ca, please?
[12:20] <Octane> hmmm
[12:21] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, in your particular case, perhaps.  Not in general, however.
[12:21] <ShadeofGrey> tritium: what do you mean not in general? i followed the exact directions on the download site and was given no reason to believe id have problems
[12:22] <ShadeofGrey> i ran the liveCD first as well
[12:22] <randabis> the ubuntu installer normally detects other linux and windows installs and automatically adds entries for them in grub
[12:22] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, I mean, that doesn't happen for nearly everyone else that has installed it.
[12:22] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: have any idea why it wouldnt in my case?
[12:22] <ShadeofGrey> is it because i downloaded the warty version?
[12:22] <randabis> no
[12:22] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, you know that Hoary is not a stable release yet?
[12:23] <randabis> hoary isn't stable, but I've heard it works better on amd64 than warty
[12:23] <ShadeofGrey> tritium: what difference does it make? the stable version wouldnt even finish the install after first reboot
[12:23] <ShadeofGrey> what i REALLY dont understand is why it would just STOP
[12:24] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, just a warning, so you don't get upset if something doesn't work quite as expected.
[12:24] <mz2> i really like that recovery thing in OOo2
[12:24] <ShadeofGrey> tritium: ill be impressed if it actually installs... ill give the distro one more chance
[12:24] <ShadeofGrey> after that, its back to Fedora
[12:25] <junit> i got my boot floppy
[12:25] <mz2> it's such a lot nicer than the yes/no you get in OOo1.x. i've lost numerous documents because of accidentally pressing no when i was supposed to say yes :)
[12:25] <Octane> robtaylor, ready?
[12:25] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: if it doesnt work, please log a bug before, hey? ;)
[12:25] <ShadeofGrey> this is an excellent example of why linux just plain doesnt have the balls to take REAL maeketshare from winblows
[12:25] <robtaylor> OC_Linux: yep
[12:25] <binks> how do i find out what ver of x86i have so i can d.l the ati drivers
[12:26] <junit> Can anyone help me repair my MBR using my boot floppy?
[12:26] <Octane> robtaylor can i pm you with URL
[12:26] <CarlK> junit - back to the 3 things you need to tell grub- first, do you want grub to be on hda? (normal)
[12:26] <junit> yes
[12:26] <robtaylor> Octane: here's fine
[12:26] <randabis> binks, just use synaptic
[12:26] <ShadeofGrey> robtaylor: you bet i will. are you a developer?
[12:26] <binks> how will it tell me
[12:26] <CarlK> junit - what hdXY is the kernel file on?
[12:26] <randabis> it has the ati drivers already...just waiting for you to install
[12:26] <junit> hda2
[12:27] <CarlK> junit - and the / partition?
[12:27] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: good. no not really, well kindof - i'm a gnome maintainer for debian
[12:27] <tritium> ShadeofGrey, amd64 is among the newer architectures, and Hoary is not yet stable.
[12:27] <voda> how can i download in the shell?
[12:27] <junit> I am not sure, default place I guess
[12:27] <blah09> ack i didnt know 2.6.11 was out, im building a 2.6.10 now =(
[12:27] <voda> is tehre a command for it?
[12:27] <randabis> 2.6.11 isn't stable yet I thought
[12:28] <robtaylor> Octane: eeek
[12:28] <binks> no but the warty drivers have problems
[12:28] <binks> out of date
[12:28] <Octane> robtaylor that doesnt sound good :)
[12:28] <voda> is there a command in the shell like: download http://get.bitlbee.org/src/bitlbee-0.91.tar.gz or is there an other way?
[12:28] <randabis> wget http://get.bitlbee.org/src/bitlbee-0.91.tar.gz
[12:29] <binks> are the hoary fglrx drivers uptodate
[12:29] <mz2> binks, yes they are
[12:29] <randabis> binks, yes, hoary has the latest of almost everything
[12:29] <tritium> I'l wait until linux-image-686 depends on it
[12:29] <robtaylor> Octane: try doing an apt-get update
[12:29] <junit> CarlK - are you still here?
[12:29] <randabis> yeah 2.6.11 is only available in prepatch form
[12:29] <Octane> robtaylor i did, of course
[12:30] <randabis> it is not a stable kernel build yet
[12:30] <mz2> it was a rather interesting effect what you get when you run fglrx drivers built for X.org on XFree 4.3 :)
[12:30] <mz2> it actually sort of works
[12:30] <robtaylor> Octane: is apt-get update exiting with an error?
[12:30] <INRSboy> can we use lilo instead of grub ?
[12:30] <blah09> randabis: its already on the ubuntu repositories
[12:30] <randabis> yes, but lilo is clunky imho
[12:31] <Octane> robtaylor no, just when i try to upgrade all the packages does it
[12:31] <HrdwrBoB> INRSboy: if it aint broke, don't fix it
[12:31] <robtaylor> Octane: try apt-get updateing again
[12:31] <tritium> mz2, incidentally, I had some problems with oo.org2 reading word .docs with tables
[12:31] <randabis> blah09, I know, but that doesn't mean anything...it's just experimental right now
[12:31] <blah09> yep
[12:31] <INRSboy> thank's to all bye
[12:31] <tritium> blah09, yes, but linux-image-686 doesn't depend on it yet because of what randabis is saying
[12:31] <randabis> the linux-image packages are still 2.6.10
[12:31] <blah09> oh
[12:32] <robtaylor> Octane: that should regenerate that file
[12:32] <blah09> but linux-source is .11
[12:32] <junit> hell ya, i got it working =D
[12:32] <tritium> sure, the source is available, if the image is
[12:32] <randabis> because linux-source is only meant to provide the source of the latest kernel
[12:32] <robtaylor> Octane: sorry i'm wrong.. hang on i'll just look a bit deeper
[12:32] <blah09> ah
[12:33] <randabis> linux-headers are what you use to build modules, etc
[12:33] <junit> now i know how to fix an F'ed up MBR
[12:33] <junit> =D
[12:33] <Octane> robtaylor i tried doing it twice though
[12:34] <blah09> i never understood the difference between source and headers
[12:34] <Octane> thank you
[12:34] <randabis> blah09, I just told you
[12:34] <blah09> is that it?
[12:34] <randabis> headers are for building modules, source is for building new kernels
[12:34] <blah09> headers for modules, source for whole kernel?
[12:34] <blah09> ah
[12:34] <ShadeofGrey> okay wait let me make sure i do this right this time. the ubuntu install iso's are singular right? there are only single install discs correct?
[12:34] <robtaylor> Octane: dpkg --clear-avail
[12:35] <randabis> yes, only one cd
[12:35] <khinester> hello
[12:35] <robtaylor> then try an upgrade again
[12:35] <randabis> maybe you should try the amd64 live cd first though and make sure that works okay
[12:35] <tritium> I agree
[12:35] <Octane> upadte then upgrade?
[12:35] <ShadeofGrey> also - i saw online that its supposed to ask you what kind of install you want and if you want to connect to the internet to download updates? mine didnt do any of that
[12:35] <khinester> hi do i display the size of the hard disk in Kb rather then blocks
[12:35] <khinester> i have done du -k, but this did not work
[12:36] <blah09> but you can build modules with the full source right>
[12:36] <blah09> ?
[12:36] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, it only does that if an internet connection is detected
[12:36] <ShadeofGrey> i THINK i DID try the 64 bit version of the liveCD hang on ill look
[12:36] <dud> du -h
[12:36] <robtaylor> Octane: might as well.
[12:36] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, doubtful...warty only have i386 livecds
[12:36] <ShadeofGrey> it WAS detected - it connected through dhcp successfully and told me so
[12:36] <mz2> tritium, well yeah, there's a lot of that around... it's not really usable. it's just quite impressive to look at every once in a while :)
[12:36] <Octane> now i cant get a lock on the list though
[12:36] <tritium> mz2, yeah, it is
[12:37] <robtaylor> Octane: is an apt-get/dpkg still running?
[12:37] <mz2> you can get it to crash for example by inserting pictures :)
[12:37] <ShadeofGrey> you guys have to understand -- i know nothing of linux. zilch
[12:37] <Octane> yah sorry had it in another terminal sorry dumb me
[12:37] <robtaylor> Octane: have you been kill -9ing things? ;)
[12:37] <robtaylor> ah ok :)
[12:38] <ShadeofGrey> thats part of the reason im apprehensive about trying to learn it -- because the learning curve is so damn steep
[12:38] <randabis> I don't think it is that steep...especially since everything linux is so well documented
[12:38] <dud> ShadeofGrey, its better to start learning linux/unix by getting a shell account first
[12:38] <Octane> okay i changed from security.ubuntu to archive.ubuntu, robtaylor
[12:39] <ShadeofGrey> but at this point i feel like i have to because im a writer who just sold a 3 book deal and i want a system more secure from invasion so i dont lose my manuscripts to hackers and lose my lifes dream
[12:39] <dud> then you wont have the ability to fuck up things, and you can just get to know the cli a bit....
[12:39] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: its not that hard really.. start with gnome ;)
[12:39] <randabis> that's one thing we have over windows, our documentation owns microsoft's
[12:39] <binks> if i change the warty bits of sources.list will i just update packages i warty or will it upgrade to hoary
[12:39] <ShadeofGrey> you own the licensing of microsoft documentation?
[12:39] <sontek> Hey, I'm looking at installing ubuntu. But I have a "WinModem" does the Linux kernel have support for dialup modems in it now?
[12:39] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: a guy at my work who'se avoided linux for every had to start using it for a project.. he seems to be gtting on pretty well.
[12:39] <khinester> how do you setup WebDAV on ubuntu
[12:40] <randabis> binks, if you change sources.list and then run apt-get dist-upgrade, you will upgrade to hoary
[12:40] <robtaylor> Octane: is it working now?
[12:40] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, I mean ours is better by leaps and bounds
[12:40] <binks> i only want the latest fglrx driver
[12:40] <ShadeofGrey> robtaylor: well..,. i tried to start using fedora core 3 -- i cant believe how slow it boots
[12:40] <mjr> sontek, for winmodems, it depends; see http://linmodems.org/ for more info
[12:40] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: thats one place where ubuntu is a lot faster ;)
[12:40] <Octane> robtaylor: it was always working, it was just failing after it extracted the packages and was about to install
[12:41] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: ah.. the OTHER type of own
[12:41] <randabis> binks, you can't safely mix hoary and warty stuff..you have to do a complete upgrade
[12:41] <Octane> im trying again.. this time using archive.ubuntu.com, not security.ubuntu.com
[12:41] <robtaylor> Octane: so, after doing dpkg --clear-avail
[12:41] <sontek> mjr: I was looking there but they didn't have much info on what chipsets were in the kernel
[12:41] <robtaylor> does apt-get upgrade start working?
[12:41] <Octane> robtaylor i'll only know in 1.5 hours when it finishes upgrading
[12:41] <robtaylor> its not to do with your apt.sources
[12:41] <mjr> sontek, ah well. I don't have any first-hand info.
[12:41] <binks> will tr in morning cant be arsed now
[12:41] <randabis> gentoo boots the fastest for me :p
[12:41] <robtaylor> Octane: ah
[12:42] <Octane> should use security or archive though
[12:42] <Octane> ?
[12:42] <robtaylor> Octane: stop your upgrade
[12:42] <Octane> okay
[12:42] <Octane> stopped
[12:42] <robtaylor> Octane: then just do something like apt-get install grub
[12:43] <Octane> newest version, can you think of something else? im drawing a blank
[12:43] <mz2> is xcompmgr or the composite-enabled metacity somewhere as an ubuntu/debian binary?
[12:43] <robtaylor> Octane: hm, , thinking...
[12:43] <Octane> vi?
[12:44] <robtaylor> Octane: try it. ialso lsof
[12:45] <Octane> sorry for beating a dead horse, but should i use archive or security in my sources.list
[12:45] <MobyTurbo> Octane, you need both
[12:46] <Octane> well vim worked
[12:46] <Octane> nice
[12:46] <robtaylor> Octane: cool
[12:46] <robtaylor> so i'd expect the full upgrade shouls work
[12:46] <robtaylor> look like somehow your availiable packages list got corrupted..
[12:47] <Octane> yah
[12:47] <binks> what was that upgrade to hoary cmd again
[12:47] <Octane> well thanks so much
[12:47] <robtaylor> i couln't hazard a guess at how, tho ;)
[12:47] <Octane> i really apperciate you helping me troubleshoot
[12:47] <coreyh> anybody having troubles with their AC97 showing up as two dsp devices?
[12:47] <robtaylor> Octane: np ;)
[12:47] <nburns> what's the stability of hoary looking like?
[12:47] <kandinski> bye all
[12:47] <kandinski> bye rob
[12:47] <robtaylor> bye kandinski
[12:47] <robtaylor> !
[12:48] <blah09> randabis, so why ditch gentoo for ubuntu?
[12:49] <randabis> I didn't
[12:49] <randabis> pretty much the other way around
[12:49] <blah09> oh youre running gentoo now?
[12:49] <randabis> yes, but ubuntu hoary is still on a couple of systems
[12:49] <randabis> and hoary is still on my hard drive on this computer...dual boot works
[12:49] <tritium> randabis, you're not going to ditch completely, are you?
[12:50] <randabis> tritium, no way, it works too good on my laptop, and works well on my sister's box
[12:50] <tritium> glad to hear it :)
[12:50] <randabis> gentoo would be a nightmare on the laptop
[12:50] <randabis> compiling a base system on a 450 mhz pentium 3 is not something I would look forward to
[12:50] <tritium> yeah
[12:50] <blah09> lol
[12:51] <blah09> you could do a stage 3
[12:51] <ShadeofGrey> can i ask some important questyions about ubuntu?
[12:51] <randabis> stage 3...bah what's the point...hehe
[12:51] <randabis> plus, wireless is not going to work out of the box...I'd have to get ndiswrapper, etc
[12:51] <randabis> just like I had to do with ubuntu
[12:51] <blah09> emerge? but then you might as well be using debian =)
[12:52] <ShadeofGrey> okay - heres my big question... since ubuntu is debian, and the mac os is based on debian, is it possible to download the osx interface and install it?
[12:52] <LinuxJones> ShadeofGrey, go ahead
[12:52] <blah09> mac os isnt debian
[12:52] <krism> gah. forgot i was on irc already
[12:52] <Pluk> mac os debian?
[12:52] <Pluk> no man
[12:52] <farruinn> ShadeofGrey: what have you been smoking?
[12:52] <blah09> mac os ist based on nextstep
[12:52] <randabis> uh...mas osx is based on freeBSD
[12:52] <Pluk> based on BSD
[12:52] <joda> Grey: macOS is based on BSD
[12:52] <ShadeofGrey> really?
[12:52] <krism> holy shit
[12:52] <Pluk> lol
[12:52] <Pluk> echo!
[12:52] <krism> rofl chris
[12:52] <krism> +t
[12:53] <ShadeofGrey> okay - fine... but its still a linux kernel right?
[12:53] <tritium> no
[12:53] <Pluk>  :)
[12:53] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, Mac OSX uses a modified Mach kernel
[12:53] <ShadeofGrey> why not?
[12:53] <ShadeofGrey> then whats the darwin project for?
[12:53] <farruinn> ShadeofGrey: http://developer.apple.com/darwin/
[12:53] <ebone> I've left planet Ubuntu !
[12:53] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, because OS X is a decendant of NeXTStep
[12:53] <Parallax> puff you sholdn 't say that in here ShadeofGrey
[12:53] <Parallax> jeje
[12:53] <ebone> and am now exploring the Universe !
[12:54] <Pluk> i just love 86% pure chocolate
[12:54] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, the kernel is open source, but is not Linux.
[12:54] <ShadeofGrey> okay fine.. let me revise my question
[12:54] <krism> ShadeofGrey no, you can't.
[12:54] <ShadeofGrey> is there any way to make ubuntu mimic the mac interface?
[12:55] <blah09> gnome looks mac-y
[12:55] <krism> see? i have precognition!
[12:55] <blah09> out of the box already
[12:55] <Pluk> :D
[12:55] <blah09> but no quartz
[12:55] <Pluk> just install a mac theme
[12:55] <joda> Grey:  not really, no
[12:55] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, ubuntu is sort of somewhere between Mac OS and Windows in interface, with a bit of Linuxy multiple desktops and the like thrown in.
[12:55] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, Ubuntu uses GNOME 2
[12:56] <Pluk> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=13548 here is a macosx theme
[12:56] <ShadeofGrey> ive seen pictures on kde-look.org of linux desktops that have a dock that looks just like the mac on fedora, FreeBSD, and... I think debian as well
[12:56] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, both KDE and GNOME have Mac-like themes.
[12:56] <blah09> if you run ubuntu youll probably want gnome-look.org
[12:56] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, SuperKaramba and gDesklets are what make those mac-like docks
[12:57] <ebone> hey guys ...
[12:57] <Pluk> hi
[12:57] <randabis> yes?
[12:57] <ebone> anybody got mono running with apache2 on Ubuntu ?
[12:57] <ShadeofGrey> okay
[12:58] <ebone> specifically, the apache mod_mono way ?
[12:58] <ShadeofGrey> so i have to install superkaramba and gdesklets to get my machine to look like that?
[12:58] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, either/or
[12:58] <randabis> you don't need both, but super karamba is for kde, gdesklets is for gnome
[12:58] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, under Ubuntu you probably want gdesklets
[12:59] <ShadeofGrey> okay
[12:59] <randabis> though technically you CAN use super karamba in gnome, and gdesklets in kde
[12:59] <randabis> I've done it for kicks before
[12:59] <bascule> supercpu-muncher
[01:00] <farruinn> the gdesklet thing really isn't much like OS X dock in terms of functionality though
[01:00] <randabis> ShadeofGrey, just keep in mind that using an AMD64 build limits you in software that you can use
[01:00] <nburns> does hoary still have a lot of bugs, or is it looking pretty stable now?
[01:00] <randabis> farruinn, agreed
[01:00] <ebone> Mono anybody ?
[01:00] <Pluk> guess not ebone
[01:00] <randabis> no mono here...I was vaccinated
[01:00] <Pluk> lol
[01:00] <ebone> :)
[01:01] <MobyTurbo> ebone, I've run "blam!", a mono app, under Ubuntu. That's about the limit of my mono expertise for now.
[01:02] <ShadeofGrey> why?
[01:02] <ShadeofGrey> you mean totell me the 64bit version of ubuntu can ONLY RUN 64 bit software?
[01:03] <ShadeofGrey> thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard
[01:03] <nburns> anyone using hoary?
[01:03] <SiRrUs> yep
[01:03] <farruinn> nburns: since it's not release time yet, I'd say, yes, there are still bugs
[01:03] <MobyTurbo> ShadeofGrey, that's a problem with all Linux distros
[01:03] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: no distro really does it right yet
[01:03] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: shared libraries get very very complicated
[01:04] <ShadeofGrey> then why the hell am i downloading it then... forget it
[01:04] <robtaylor> ShadeofGrey: the solution is debian multiarch , but you'll have to wait for that
[01:04] <nburns> farruinn - ok.. i started using warty prior to the release date and didn't have any stability problems.. i didn't know if it was looking the same for hoary
[01:04] <ShadeofGrey> so okay. i guessill download the x86 version
[01:06] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: FWIW, I had stability problems with the 32-bit version on 64-bit proc
[01:07] <robtaylor> does anyone actually knwo what amd64 universe is missing?
[01:07] <Parallax> I have AMD64 and i need 32 bit apps so i had to install back a 32 bit hoary instead of 64
[01:07] <hawke> robtaylor: wine :-)
[01:07] <Parallax> for exmaple
[01:07] <robtaylor> obviously multiverse is probably messing..
[01:08] <robtaylor> hawke: you use that? ;)
[01:08] <hawke> robtaylor: Yeah...only way I can play The Game of Life. :-)
[01:09] <robtaylor> Parallax: can you remember what yours were?
[01:09] <Parallax> 3
[01:09] <Parallax> array-3
[01:09] <Parallax> wine and something else that I really needed
[01:10] <hawke> robtaylor: Is there any site that documents why stuff hasn't "moved into" universe from Debian?  (It's automated, right?)
[01:10] <Parallax> I think I ll wait till hoary-stable and then switch to 64
[01:10] <ludi> why does ubuntu's gnome come with firefox instead of epiphany
[01:10] <hawke> robtaylor: Similar to packages.qa.debian.org
[01:10] <Parallax> firefox rules
[01:10] <robtaylor> hawke: good q. i dont know.. try asking in #ubuntu-devel
[01:11] <ludi> I was thinking of switching from Debian to Ubuntu, but then I read on their website that they ship gnome with the firefox browser :(
[01:11] <ludi> why not just use the native gnome browser--epiphany?
[01:11] <hawke> ludi: Not hard to switch...
[01:11] <robtaylor> ludi: just as in debian, you can still choose ;)
[01:11] <tritium> ludi, so install epiphany
[01:11] <randabis> ludi, epiphany is easy to install
[01:11] <hawke> lol
[01:11] <ludi> yes yes
[01:11] <hawke> echo
[01:11] <ludi> but
[01:12] <ludi> it's a question of why ubuntu would make the decision to have default of firefox
[01:12] <hawke> bbl
[01:12] <robtaylor> ludi: they all suck IMHO ;)
[01:12] <Zotnix> ludi, because firefox is awesome.
[01:12] <ludi> I don't prefer firefox to epiphany
[01:12] <thundrcleeze> so you can install epiphany.
[01:12] <farruinn> so don't use it
[01:12] <robtaylor> i prefer galeon, so go figure
[01:13] <tritium> ludi, you're not prevented from using epiphany, nor are you forced to use firefox
[01:13] <Zotnix> ludi, so... they should not install the default as firefox because you don't them to?
[01:13] <thundrcleeze> and you can install galeon, robt
[01:13] <robtaylor> thundrcleeze: and i do, and i do ;)
[01:13] <ludi> Zotnix: No.
[01:13] <tritium> ludi, they probably chose it as default because so many people are familiar with it, including Windows users who may switch to ubuntu
[01:13] <thundrcleeze> It's not like it's integrated into everything like IE, ludi
[01:14] <ludi> tritium: I don't like that reason, if indeed that is the reason
[01:14] <mz2> ** (Tomboy:15570): WARNING **: Missing method DestGetTargetList in assembly /usr/lib/tomboy/Tomboy.exe typeref index 103
[01:14] <mz2> what might that mean?
[01:14] <tritium> ludi, you're free do dislike whatever you want
[01:14] <mz2> what am i missing?
[01:14] <randabis> ludi, just because you don't like mustard on your corn dog doesn't mean everyone should have to use ketchup instead
[01:14] <ludi> well, ubuntu is supposed to be a gnome distribution.....yet they don't ship it with epiphany which is the default browser for the gnome project.
[01:15] <tritium> ludi, just like I can dislike debian since it's default browser isn't NCSA Mosaic
[01:15] <robtaylor> right. its bedtime for me!
[01:15] <ludi> but NCSA Mosaic isn't the gnome browser...epiphany is.
[01:15] <farruinn> ludi: ask canonical then, we don't make ubuntu, we just use it
[01:15] <sladen> ludi: there was a thread on ubuntu-devel called:  "Epiphany vs. Firefox (Duck!)"  about this.  Just ask yourself which browser has mindshare
[01:15] <thundrcleeze> ludi, just because it's a gnome distro doesn't mean it has to follow gnome exactly.
[01:16] <tritium> ludi, it doesn't matter.  I can dislike it for that reason.
[01:16] <Zotnix> ludi, it comes with many apps that aren't default in gnome.
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> ludi: because epiphany is not up to the standard which ubuntu wanted and as such firefox was included
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> abiword is the gnome word processor
[01:16] <ludi> HrdwrBoB: not up to the standard?  How so?
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> and gnumeric is the gnome spreadsheet
[01:16] <thundrcleeze> and abiword is available.
[01:16] <tritium> and gpdf is the PDF viewer
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> however ubuntu comes with openoffice
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> and 'comes'
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> meaning it's in the standard install
[01:16] <thundrcleeze> and all of those are available if you want to use them.
[01:16] <HrdwrBoB> thundrcleeze: precisely
[01:16] <MobyTurbo> abiword and gnumeric aren't even in universe, they are in the regular repository.
[01:17] <farruinn> ludi: perhaps the thread on ubuntu-devel would answer your question more fully
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> yes, they'r ein main
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> they're
[01:17] <ludi> HrdwrBoB: epiphany not up to the standard?  How so?
[01:17] <sladen> tritium: gpdf is unfortunately majorly buggy in its font-handling
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> ludi: I an not 100% on the reasons
[01:17] <tritium> sladen, yes, for sure
[01:17] <ludi> well, that's what I'm asking about.
[01:17] <HrdwrBoB> I personally don't like epiphany so I'll not comment
[01:17] <farruinn> xpdf is fine though
[01:18] <HrdwrBoB> given my inherent bias
[01:18] <tritium> xpdf is pretty good
[01:18] <sladen> ludi: again, Openoffice has mindshare
[01:18] <mz2> ludi, but you're not really making sense, why not just install epiphany? it's not like you can't get it from the ubuntu repository? i think it's a marvellous idea that ubuntu installs one app for rougly one purpose as a default, and firefox is really not a bad choice if a choice has to be made
[01:19] <ludi> mz2: why was firefox chosen over epiphany.  what part of that question makes no sense?
[01:19] <randabis> ask the devs
[01:19] <randabis> there is a thread about ff vs epiphany on the mailing list
[01:19] <tritium> ludi, what a trivial issue...
[01:20] <MobyTurbo> ludi, make your own distro then that defaults to epiphany and offers firefox as a download rather than the other way around.
[01:20] <randabis> again just because you like ketchup doesn't mean we can't use mustard
[01:21] <randabis> you eat what's on your plate or don't eat at all
[01:21] <randabis> lolz
[01:21] <mz2> ludi, it's not like ubuntu is the only distro that has made that choice... it does make sense, it's just something that is something that literally tenfolds of people are more comfortable with and know better (and let's face it, it's not that bad a bad browser either :)
[01:22] <mz2> oh cool, hoary comes with f-spot
[01:22] <sladen> ludi: you've ask the question several times.  You've had answers several times.  Please read:  http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-January/thread.html#3371
[01:23] <Zotnix> Besides, 25 million users can't be entirely wrong ;)
[01:23] <tritium> I don't imagine there are > 25 million epiphany users
[01:23] <tritium> Zotnix, :)
[01:23] <Zotnix> tritium, hehe.
[01:24] <mebaran151> yo
[01:24] <mz2> Zotnix, well that may be just a bit controversial :)
[01:24] <CarlK> what does it take to fax from warty?
[01:24] <ebag> where can i read up on apt and sources?  i'd like to figure out what apps are available in the universe etc, but haven't been able to find a list.
[01:25] <tritium> CarlK, not sure, but did you apt-cache search fax?
[01:25] <CarlK> I started teh fax setup wiz, and got stuck on the "enter command line" step
[01:26] <sladen> CarlK: dunno.  It may involve 'hylafax
[01:26] <CarlK> tritium - no, but given that one of the ToDo's for hoary is "fax support" I don't think it is just a matter of apt
[01:26] <farruinn> ebag: just browse with synaptic?
[01:27] <ebag> farruinn: neat.
[01:27] <tritium> CarlK, well, fax software is available that will work.
[01:29] <CarlK> tritium - yeah, but I am more interested in spenidn time getting my sound working than faxing ;)
[01:30] <Okys> hi there im tryng to boot the live cd on my toshiba satelite pro 4600... it hangs on the x-server black mesh screen
[01:30] <tritium> CarlK, yeah, me too
[01:30] <Okys> i want to load it on, if the live wont work is there any point?
[01:32] <deshantm> I am getting a lot of processes that look like:  sendmail: MSP: ./j1FBH2AK030474 [<IP_ADDRESS>] : user does anyone know what they are?
[01:34] <Okys> ..
[01:34] <Okys> now trying knoppix
[01:36] <HrdwrBoB> hrm
[01:36] <Okys> why would knoppic boot and ubuntu not, its the old knoppic cd at that?
[01:37] <randabis> Okys, try the newest hoary live cd
[01:37] <Okys> ok ill have a look, cheers
[01:38] <Okys> i can only get warty
[01:39] <farruinn> Okys: see the link in /topic
[01:40] <Okys> ohh right
[01:44] <macewan> someone say my name, need to test a plugin
[01:44] <jesuel> macewan
[01:44] <macewan> shit
[01:44] <macewan> thanks
[01:44] <farruinn> lol
[01:45] <farruinn> I guess it didn't work
[01:45] <macewan> nope
[01:45] <macewan> f'ing with monkeychicken
[01:49] <ShadeofGrey> eob: still there?
[01:49] <ShadeofGrey> robtaylor: still there?
[01:50] <ShadeofGrey> okay guys i opted to download the x86 iso installer CD
[01:50] <ShadeofGrey> because as it turns out, i downloaded the 32 bit version of teh LiveCD and that worjed just fine
[01:51] <randabis> told you :p
[01:51] <Khan> Hmmm I have a problem. I havnt been able to get Ubuntu to start up because during the process of loading everything it stops at "* Starting hotplug subsystem... " and never goes any farther and I cant do anything. I have tried a couple different things and I am lost.
[01:51] <ShadeofGrey> randabis: im just REALLY worried about the bootloader probs i had using the warty 64bit
[01:52] <randabis> Khan, file a bug
[01:52] <minimec> Khan: Hi. Do you have any usb hardware plugged?
[01:52] <Khan> Only my printer.
[01:52] <ShadeofGrey> it didnt ask for details of what i wanted in the bootloader, took windows out of the list entirely, and even rendered my wijndows 98 boot disk inoperable
[01:52] <ShadeofGrey> TOTALLY
[01:52] <Airforcepunk04> hello
[01:53] <Khan> I tried unplugging my printer and booting up but that didnt work.
[01:53] <minimec> Khan: so try to start without the printer first. the we will see.
[01:53] <Airforcepunk04> are the free cd's that i ordered going to be live cd's(runs on cdrom)
[01:54] <Khan> minimec: I tried unplugging my printer and booting up but that didnt work. Infact I tried unplugging everything accept my monitor just to see if that owuld work and it didnt. :P
[01:54] <Airforcepunk04> is anyone going to help me
[01:54] <farruinn> Airforcepunk04: for x86 and amd64 you'll get both, ppc just install
[01:54] <minimec> Khan: ok. you did a normal ubuntu install, didn't you?
[01:54] <Khan> minimec: Correct didnt change any settings.
[01:55] <randabis> file a bug
[01:55] <Khan> minimec: I tried searching the forums for a solution and it appears it is a common problem. But none of the ideas there worked.
[01:55] <minimec> Ok. Do you have any Live Disk around to start a system?
[01:55] <Khan> minimec: That I do not.
[01:55] <Khan> I will randabis. Just wanted to see if I could find a solution first.
[01:56] <Airforcepunk04> HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE BEFORE THEY ARRIVE AT MY HOUSE
[01:56] <randabis> a million years
[01:56] <randabis> Khan, indeed, the devs might be able to help you though also
[01:57] <Airforcepunk04> so how long before they arrive
[01:57] <Airforcepunk04> ?????
[01:57] <thundrcleeze> What's they?
[01:57] <minimec> Khan: Hmm.. Try to boot in recovery-mode (I'm not sure if I used the right term) and don't start the hotplug system
[01:57] <randabis> how long ago did you order?
[01:57] <mebaran151> Anyone know how to make the i950 work on AMD64
[01:57] <Airforcepunk04> 2-15-2005
[01:57] <mebaran151> the gimp print driver works
[01:57] <mebaran151> but everything is like 100 times too small
[01:57] <randabis> Airforcepunk04, a month or more
[01:57] <Airforcepunk04> why that long
[01:57] <mebaran151> it is sort of like an S800
[01:58] <randabis> because you get what you pay for
[01:58] <Khan> minimec: Actually I tried booting in recovery-mode and it hung on the same problem.
[01:58] <Khan> So I dunno.
[01:58] <Airforcepunk04> there live cd's right?
[01:58] <Xirdneh> hi there, anybody has a problem when a windows driver is trying to initialize a device but it cant :S????
[01:58] <randabis> you should get livecds and regular install cds
[01:59] <randabis> Xirdneh, I don't use windows
[01:59] <minimec> Khan: I didn't do that for myself :-) . But isn't there the possibility to start one deamon after the other by choice?
[01:59] <Airforcepunk04> can i resale them when i upgrade to a new version
[01:59] <thundrcleeze> Why would you sell something that was given to you for free?
[02:00] <Khan> minimec: Hmm Maybe Lemme check it out.
[02:00] <Khan> I will be back shortly.
[02:00] <Airforcepunk04> if they come out with a version that is almost required
[02:00] <minimec> Khan: So do I. HAve to smoke ...
[02:00] <randabis> Airforcepunk04, uh...no?
[02:00] <randabis> you don't have to sell the old ones to get new ones...
[02:01] <Airforcepunk04> do i have to activate them
[02:01] <randabis> no
[02:01] <randabis> this isn't windows
[02:01] <thundrcleeze> Free.  Everything's free.
[02:01] <randabis> we don't believe in activation around here
[02:01] <Airforcepunk04> whats the requirements to use them
[02:01] <Airforcepunk04> install version and live
[02:01] <randabis> a computer
[02:02] <ebone> hey guys ...
[02:02] <Airforcepunk04> ram?? etc...
[02:02] <randabis> ubuntulinux.org should have that info
[02:02] <thundrcleeze> It should be listed on the site where you ordered
[02:02] <ebone> any Ubuntu Mumbo Warriors here ?
[02:02] <randabis> wtf is that?
[02:02] <ebone> i'm just being silly ...
[02:02] <randabis> ah
[02:02] <ebone> silly willy ...
[02:03] <ebone> seriously, can I add some debian sources to my sources.list file ?
[02:03] <thundrcleeze> yes, but you shouldn't.
[02:03] <randabis> ebone, yes, but BE CAREFUL
[02:03] <thundrcleeze> unless you know what you're doing.
[02:03] <Airforcepunk04> does it come with intructions
[02:03] <ebone> thundrcleeze: i wouldn't say that !
[02:03] <randabis> only one I can think of that would be semi useful is christian marillat's
[02:04] <ebone> there are just a few things that I can't find in universe ...
[02:04] <randabis> such as?
[02:04] <ebone> but they are available on my debian box.
[02:04] <ebone> apache2-dev , e.g.
[02:04] <randabis> you might want to try multiverse too
[02:04] <Airforcepunk04> how to operate it install live etc??
[02:04] <ebone> and also libapache-mod-mono
[02:04] <thundrcleeze> Airforcepunk04, the install cd are fairly easy to install.
[02:04] <ebone> ohh .... cool, what's that ?
[02:04] <thundrcleeze> Airforcepunk04, the live cd all you have to do is put it in your computer and start it up.
[02:05] <randabis> another ubuntu repo
[02:05] <randabis> just add multiverse to the universe lines
[02:05] <Airforcepunk04> thanks for your time bye..
[02:05] <randabis> I don't think it will have that stuff you want though
[02:05] <ebone> worth a try i guess.
[02:06] <randabis> if you do add debian repos, make sure they have the lowest priority possible
[02:06] <randabis> you you don't break the whole system with an apt-get upgrade, etc
[02:06] <randabis> so
[02:08] <ebone> randabis: good idea ...
[02:08] <ebone> actually, that multiverse has a couple of things i was looking for.
[02:09] <ebone> would you build from source or try renegade debian packages ?
[02:09] <ebone> prolly should stop being lazy and just build from source ...   :)
[02:10] <CarlK> I am fleshing out http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/DebuggingSoundProblems
[02:10] <randabis> source might be a good idea
[02:10] <randabis> make sure you have build-essential
[02:10] <CarlK> after one figures out what chipset they have (lspci or lspnp) where should one look to figure out what moduels need to be loaded?
[02:11] <rel> hello, I just installed hoary amd64. some issues. oe annoying: when I want to run synaptic it prompts me for root password. but fails to lauch the app. saying password is wrong. altough, doing this with gtksuexec worjs. anyone a clue?
[02:11] <CarlK> ack... i skipped a step... what is replacing alsaconfig ?
[02:12] <minimec> rel: are you sure that you use the right keymap in your Desktop envirment?
[02:13] <Gotcha> Looking for someone who has Aspire 1350
[02:13] <randabis> rel, try your user password
[02:13] <randabis> you shouldn't have a root password
[02:13] <rel> minimec, well not totally sure. have selected dutch lang. and want to get rid of it soon. My root password doesnt contain any charaters, only letters
[02:13] <mebaran151> anyone know a good place to start learning python
[02:14] <mebaran151> just a good way to start
[02:14] <mebaran151> I already got vim down
[02:14] <mebaran151> heheh
[02:14] <farruinn> mebaran151: did you ask last night?
[02:14] <minimec> rel: well I'm new to ubuntu, but you have to use your user password typing 'sudo synaptic'
[02:15] <farruinn> isn't 'gksudo synaptic' a better idea?
[02:15] <mebaran151> I never got the response
[02:15] <mebaran151> my internet sort of died on me
[02:15] <mebaran151> I did ask though
[02:15] <farruinn> oh, I see
[02:16] <farruinn> there are some links from the python website
[02:16] <[Spooky] > hello folks !
[02:16] <rel> randabis, when using my users password it dialogs me "child terminated with status 1"
[02:16] <randabis> hi
[02:16] <randabis> rel something isn't right then
[02:17] <rel> randabis, I know that :)
[02:17] <rel> does the default install put users to sudoers?
[02:17] <[Spooky] > randabis: hows it going ?
[02:18] <randabis> rel, yes, it puts the user you created in sudoers
[02:18] <farruinn> rel: only the first user though
[02:18] <randabis> but not users you create after the install
[02:18] <randabis> [Spooky] , just fine
[02:18] <rel> randabis, this is the second installation of hoary. on an other machine I had exactly the same issue. maybe somthing wrong in hoary
[02:19] <[Spooky] > randabis: cool :)
[02:19] <rel> randabis, I am not in sudoers. maybe the install forgets about this
[02:19] <minimec> rel: the problem could be, that your choice of keymap during the installation isn't the same in your X-desktop. I had that problem using the us keymap for xfree and CH_de in Gnome :-)
[02:19] <[Spooky] > im curius about the firewall "firestarter" anyone good in using it ?
[02:20] <randabis> strange, I used the hoary install cd and never had a problem with not being a sudoer
[02:20] <[Spooky] > its like a b*tch to have on and at the same time use bittorrent hehe
[02:20] <rel> minimec, oh, well. if I type my password in a shell it comes out right.
[02:21] <minimec> rel: Ok.
[02:22] <[Spooky] > isnt there something like ip* something a file to alter and have as a firewall ?
[02:22] <farruinn> [Spooky] : you have the port bittorrent uses open?
[02:22] <minimec> rel: how about 'sudo apt-get ...' in a console. Does that work. (Well normally it should not...)
[02:22] <[Spooky] > farruinn: mm but later on its like 50 ips on diffrent udp ports thats been blocked...
[02:23] <rel> minimec, I doesnt.. rel not in sudoers file
[02:24] <rel> minimec, how does your line in /etc/sudoers look like?
[02:24] <minimec> rel: I have to check that.
[02:26] <minimec> rel: quiet simple: minimec ALL=(ALL) ALL
[02:27] <bumperland> how do you listen to streaming audio such as shoutcast
[02:27] <kent> bumperland, well, with my ears..  ;)
[02:28] <bumperland> lol
[02:28] <[Spooky] > bumperland: try xmms
[02:28] <rel> minimec, that did the trick. now it doesnt prompt me with a password dialog at all
[02:28] <rel> kinda scary though
[02:29] <farruinn> rel: it asked you at least once though, right?
[02:29] <minimec> rel: I figured that out too. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. So we are happy then :-)
[02:29] <rel> farruinn, after visudo not once
[02:30] <rel> minimec, almost happy :)
[02:30] <farruinn> it will timeout
[02:30] <farruinn> or if you open a new terminal
[02:30] <bumperland> i have xmms but i can't make it the default
[02:30] <minimec> rel: with 'sudo -s' you have a root terminal. sometimes very cool...
[02:30] <kapputu> hi all
[02:30] <kapputu> where do I get hoary?
[02:31] <farruinn> rel: read http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RootSudo for more sudo happiness
[02:32] <rel> minimec, ah :) its cool. but its dangerous. I guess I'll define the apps to sudo.
[02:32] <rel> farruinn, oke..  sneaking at it
[02:33] <minimec> rel: I see the problem. As a Debian User I wasn't really used to the 'sudo-thing'. some kind of strange, but you get used to it...
[02:35] <kapputu> any help?
[02:35] <[Spooky] > kapputu: with ?
[02:36] <minimec> kapputu: www.ubuntulinux.org ?
[02:36] <kapputu> downloading hoary
[02:36] <kapputu> well first I need to know why hoary is better than warty
[02:37] <kapputu> I have been using ubuntu for quite sometime now though I have not been keeping up with the developments in the community
[02:37] <rel> kapputu, its not better, its newer
[02:37] <minimec> kapputu: go into your /etc/apt/sources file and change 'warty' to 'hoary'. that's it :-=
[02:37] <rel> minimec, I even did tat with debian woody
[02:37] <kapputu> hmm
[02:37] <rel> it updates quite well
[02:37] <minimec> rel: srage to sid :-)
[02:38] <rel> woody to hoary
[02:38] <kapputu> but there must be something better so that they released a newer version
[02:38] <minimec> rel: cool :-) Did that work, without problem?
[02:38] <rel> kapputu, it contains gnome 2.10
[02:39] <rel> minimec, not with dramatic problems. just some package conflicts
[02:39] <rel> minimec, the box still runs apache2
[02:39] <rel> I use it as a intranet server..
[02:39] <kapputu> ok then why is gnome 3.10 better?
[02:39] <rel> not 3.10
[02:39] <kapputu> oops 2.10
[02:40] <rel> kapputu, loads of bugfixes
[02:40] <minimec> rel: well why not. It's the same familiy :-) I use the debian bootsplash packages and the debian mplayer sourcec. Works good. :-)
[02:40] <rel> and very stable for me
[02:41] <kapputu> hmm
[02:41] <kapputu> any good distro with KDE?
[02:41] <minimec> rel: I'm testing ubuntu on my laptop. No problem until now.
[02:41] <nomasteryoda> kapputu, suse
[02:41] <|QuaD-> kapputu: ubuntu :)
[02:41] <nomasteryoda> lol
[02:41] <kapputu> lol
[02:41] <minimec> kapputu: Suse
[02:42] <kapputu> expected that
[02:42] <|QuaD-> why not use kde on ubuntu?
[02:42] <nomasteryoda> hehe
[02:42] <Riddell> kapputu: it's easy https://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE
[02:42] <|QuaD-> kapputu: apt-get install kde :)
[02:42] <nomasteryoda> when you want a distro to install on a system that has dialup only, suse beats ubuntu.. no downloads
[02:43] <nomasteryoda> but i like ubuntu for it's simplicity
[02:43] <kapputu> hmm ok which is better?
[02:43] <[Spooky] > man in firefox you had to type like ::about to get a list off options what is it i should type ?
[02:43] <kapputu> I have been using gnome
[02:43] <kapputu> but I seem to like KDE too
[02:43] <nomasteryoda> kapputu, kde has a great many options
[02:43] <kapputu> will probably install it on my desktop
[02:43] <kapputu> I want to use KDevelop
[02:44] <minimec> kapputu: stay with gnome. You will be the 'winner' in the future. Im quiet sure.
[02:44] <kapputu> I believe it has support for ftp support
[02:44] <dakam> Hey i have a problem i just installed Ubuntu yesterday
[02:44] <nomasteryoda> minimec, yea according to ESR
[02:44] <kapputu> minimec: I sure do want to keep using gnome on atleast one machine
[02:44] <dakam> What is the Directory for a CDROM Drive?
[02:44] <kapputu> dakam: /media/cdrom
[02:45] <minimec> well I need another cigarette. Will be back...
[02:45] <dakam> thanks i thought it was /media or /cdrom lol
[02:45] <kapputu> ok one more question
[02:45] <kapputu> is there a good sound recorder which can record sound from line-in
[02:45] <kapputu> I'm forced to use Windows only for this reason
[02:45] <LinuxJones> kapputu, audacity
[02:46] <dakam> Ok It didnt work my CD Player that Came with Ubuntu... I changed it to /media/cdrom (I screwed up the first time)
[02:46] <dakam> It says CD PLayer Device: then a Text box
[02:46] <dakam> im sorry if im a noob lol
[02:47] <kapputu> nope dakam: we are happy that you are trying out Ubuntu
[02:47] <rel> is it normal that  "http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hoary-updates" is unavailable?
[02:47] <dakam> well im not trying im freeing myself of Windows :)
[02:47] <kapputu> good
[02:47] <kapputu> I did too
[02:47] <Riddell> rel: since hoary hasn't been released there are no updates
[02:48] <rel> Riddell, makes sence :)
[02:48] <kapputu> any good themes for Ubuntu or gnome in general
[02:48] <kapputu> I want to add some spice
[02:48] <dakam> But how do i fix this... Its the Default CD Player that came wit Ubuntu
[02:49] <skel_home> anyone running ubuntu on an ibook g3 ?
[02:49] <skel_home> having suspend issues
[02:49] <rel> Riddell, found out that hoary by default doesnt support mp3 playback. not in rhyhembox or totem
[02:49] <skel_home> rel: xmms?
[02:49] <rel> skel_home, nah.. like rhythembox
[02:50] <dakam> Warty wont Stream with Rhythembox, but maybe thats my CPU
[02:50] <skel_home> rel: thats weird though
[02:50] <rel> guess I need to use multiverse
[02:50] <rel> whatever that means
[02:50] <LinuxJones> kapputu, gnome-look.org
[02:50] <minimec> rel: that means that you have access to some packages with 'licence'-problems...
[02:51] <rel> skel_home, I find that too. the previous install of hoary mp3 was working normally
[02:51] <rel> minimec, thaught of that. I'll change universe to multiverse and see
[02:52] <minimec> rel: you have to have them both I think.
[02:52] <rel> ok
[02:52] <minimec> rel: if you install xmms, you should be able to use mp3 on totem. Well it works on my machine.
[02:53] <dakam> i tried /media/cdrom in CD player as the Device but it wont work..
[02:53] <[Spooky] > hm http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#unrar dosent work...
[02:54] <rel> minimec, I was using restricted only. This probably means "tested packages" only?
[02:55] <minimec> dakam: try /media/cdrom0. 'cdrom' is just a link to the first cdrom drive.
[02:55] <dakam> ok
[02:55] <minimec> rel: Good question. :-)
[02:56] <LinuxJones> dakam, what is the output for ls -al /dev/cdrom ?
[02:56] <dakam> Not sure but im trying something
[02:56] <skel_home> so no one running on an ibook?
[02:56] <minimec> skel_home: not me :-(
[02:57] <rel> minimec, gstreamer should support mp3 playback. must be.
[02:57] <dakam> Im not sure about the /dev thing
[02:57] <minimec> rel: Hmmm. Let me check that.
[02:58] <kbrooks> What package can I install to get all the manual pages?
[02:59] <dakam> mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc,
[02:59] <dakam>        or too many mounted file systems
[02:59] <dakam> one CD ROM and one Floppy
[03:01] <rel> minimec, http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats/view?searchterm=hoary%20mp3
[03:01] <dakam> there we go
[03:01] <dakam> Fixed it
[03:01] <dakam> /dev/cdrom
[03:01] <dakam> thanks for the help
[03:02] <rel> minimec, gstreamer-mad provides this
[03:02] <minimec> rel: rythembox is not playing mp3!
[03:02] <simonw> does anyone know how to get an external FireWire hard drive working under Ubuntu?
[03:03] <simonw> I can't find it documented anywhere
[03:05] <rel> minimec, now it does :)
[03:05] <minimec> rel: :-)
[03:05] <rel> minimec, just install he mad plugin. no need for xmms
[03:06] <minimec> rel: I like xmms. I like the small gxmms applet for my panel.
[03:09] <rel> simonw, guess your drive needs the right usb/firewire drivers/modules enabled. try compiling a custom kernel and check out menuconfig
[03:10] <rel> minimec, yea. its all about choice
[03:10] <kbrooks> What package can I install to get all the manual pages??
[03:11] <simonw> rel: I just did some modprobe stuff and got the thing to show using rescan-scsi-bus.sh
[03:13] <simonw> I can see the drive, but the permissions are screwed up - I can't cd in to it
[03:13] <simonw> aah - sudo modprobe sbp2
[03:13] <simonw> wrong paste - I think I'm OK now
[03:14] <minimec> rel: well a lot of choices in linux... :-)
[03:17] <minimec> rel: by the way... one day, I don't even remeber why, I started to use irssi as chat client. It was a choice, and I don't see any reason to change. :-)
[03:18] <farruinn> kbrooks: you want *all* the manual pages?
[03:19] <kbrooks> farruinn, man pges, yes
[03:19] <aurax> does hoary can be installed to harddrive?
[03:19] <farruinn> when you install a package it comes with the related man pages
[03:19] <minimec> aurax: why not?
[03:19] <aurax> hoary is better then warty?
[03:20] <rel> minimec, my choice also. its a kick ass clinet :)
[03:20] <thundrcleeze> hoary is the next version.
[03:20] <aurax> minimec, oh i had the hoary livecd
[03:20] <aurax> from gnoppix
[03:20] <minimec> aurax: wouldn't go so far...
[03:20] <aurax> so its basiclly the same
[03:20] <aurax> a bit faster maybe?
[03:20] <thundrcleeze> um...
[03:21] <aurax> whats array ?
[03:21] <aurax> like rc?
[03:21] <minimec> aurax: Yes. The 2.6.10 or ...11 kernel is quiet faster I guess. (I'm using warty)
[03:22] <aurax> im on warty atm...
[03:22] <neom> Anyone else find my blog really slow to load? http://blog.neom.ca/
[03:22] <aurax> is it worth installing hoary
[03:22] <aurax> its ok neom
[03:22] <ImagistTD>  I finally got my install to work. But I accidentally set the graphics to a higher screen size (1024 by 800) than I actually have (1024 by 768). Now it won't let me access the graphical user interface. How do I reset the graphics to the correct values from the text console version?
[03:22] <minimec> aurax: I would say, no ! Not yet.
[03:23] <minimec> aurax: never change a running system...
[03:23] <aurax> just installed it
[03:23] <aurax> im testing few linux dist's
[03:23] <aurax> for my comapny...
[03:23] <farruinn> ImagistTD: modify your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file
[03:23] <aurax> what is hoary-current ?
[03:23] <aurax> its the array-4 ?
[03:24] <rel> ImagistTD,  ` dpg-reconfigutre xfree-xorg ` maybe
[03:24] <minimec> aurax: so it seems to be quiet stable, but there are some problems with depedencies, I think.
[03:24] <aurax> ic
[03:25] <minimec> rel: my words!
[03:25] <smx> I need a little help with some basics   any takers?
[03:25] <minimec> smoking again...
[03:25] <thenuke> smx: depends. we are not reading your mind you know
[03:25] <ImagistTD> farruin/rel, how do I do that?  I'm new to linux and completely lost in the GUI.
[03:25] <jesuel> mmm drunk computing ....mmm
[03:25] <smx> okay nuke
[03:26] <ImagistTD> I can sign in, but I don't know what commands do what.
[03:26] <thenuke> smx: so Never Ever ask if someone is willing to help you or know answers to your questions which you have not even asked yet ;-D   go ahead now ;)
[03:26] <smx> First ... In Slackware, you've got "pkgtool" ... is there is an evuivalent config program for ubuntu (I know about apt)
[03:27] <thenuke> apt-get yes, apt is kind of frontend for dpkg
[03:27] <jesuel> there is also synapic
[03:27] <jesuel> err synaptic
[03:27] <smx> What I want is to configure stuff like the default wm
[03:27] <smx> services etc
[03:28] <smx> without having to hand-edit all the etc files
[03:28] <thenuke> jesuel: yup, synaptic uses apt or dpkg or something :9
[03:29] <smx> I think synaptic uses all of those programs
[03:29] <smx> But .. how do I configure the system, once things are installed?
[03:29] <jesuel> ive always just edited the config files
[03:29] <minimec> smx: synaptic is in fact just a GUI for apt.
[03:30] <thenuke> smx: umm, by editing the configs :) ?
[03:30] <smx> lol   most dists have tools that make it a haor quicker
[03:30] <smx> a hair quicker     a hair
[03:30] <thenuke> when I have used apt-get to install something, sometimes it have asked from me about some configs
[03:30] <thenuke> but very rarely
[03:30] <smx> me too'
[03:31] <smx> what is that program?
[03:31] <hawke> The level of questioning you get can be changed with 'dpkg-reconfigure debconf'
[03:31] <smx> it's an ncurses thing
[03:31] <thenuke> smx: what do you mean by that? doing that more quickly? how does slack for instance handle those then?
[03:31] <hawke> questioning -> prompting for config options
[03:31] <smx> slack's pkgtool has a simple ncurses interface
[03:31] <farruinn> smx: see hawke's answer
[03:32] <thenuke> and it forces you to config whatever configfiles there might be then?
[03:32] <smx> that lets you change basic configuration stuff
[03:32] <smx> it doesn't force you
[03:32] <smx> but it's quick
[03:32] <farruinn> smx: the ubuntu default is to be really really quick by asking you hardly anything =)
[03:32] <smx> updates env
[03:32] <jesuel> smx, basically what youre looking for is a centralized configuration tool, that uses a text mode interface?
[03:33] <smx> yupper
[03:33] <smx> that's it jesuel
[03:33] <thenuke> smx: sounds ok
[03:33] <hawke> On the same lines, I'm curious to find out how to change the system default window manager..
[03:33] <jesuel> as far as i know, one doesnt exist for ubuntu. Although you could always create one.
[03:33] <thenuke> smx: I have not yet tried slack
[03:33] <farruinn> hawke: for gnome?
[03:33] <smx> I used slack for years
[03:33] <minimec> smx: I used Slack and I loved it, but 'apt' is a smoking peace of software.
[03:33] <hawke> farruinn: Well, for gdm
[03:34] <smx> Yup -- apt is the best
[03:34] <smx> slapt-get suckes
[03:34] <hawke> farruinn: Desktop environment would be more appropriate, I guess
[03:34] <jesuel> slapt-get? lol
[03:34] <smx> for now ... I hear that they're working hard on it
[03:34] <smx> yea   slapt-get is an apt-like program for slackware
[03:35] <farruinn> hawke: when you log into one that's different it asks you if you want to make that default
[03:35] <hawke> farruinn: I have Gnome, KDE, XFCE4 installed ... Don't understand why it defaults to XFCE4...
[03:35] <hawke> farruinn: System default, not user default...
[03:35] <minimec> smx: to configure your software, you have webmin or other programs, or you edit the config file, as usual- :-)
[03:35] <rel> what i cannot figure is why when I select evolution-exchange for removal, apt wants to remove ubuntu-desktop metapackage
[03:36] <hawke> rel: Because ubuntu-desktop depends on evolution-exchange
[03:36] <farruinn> rel: removing a metapackage doesn't remove what depends on it
[03:36] <farruinn> so it's safe to remove ubuntu-desktop
[03:36] <smx> where is the list of files for potential installation kept by apt? var?
[03:37] <farruinn> smx: you can use apt-cache search [package]
[03:37] <rel> hawke, applies to fetchmail and webcal too. So, it doesnt remove all the packages what ubuntu-desktop provides
[03:37] <hawke> smurfix: /var/lib/apt/lists
[03:37] <rel> farruinn, roger that
[03:37] <minimec> smx: hmm.. /var/cache/dpkg I think.
[03:37] <hawke> er, smx rather
[03:37] <smx> oh ... there it is!
[03:37] <smx> cool
[03:37] <OC_Linux> anyone running egoboo?
[03:39] <hawke> rel: No...but if you're tracking hoary, you might want to keep an eye on ubuntu-desktop's depends so you can install the new stuff that it adds as time goes on.
[03:43] <rel> hawke, in other words. with this metapackage removed I cannot upgrade its dependancies? And should apt-get it. Then it will reinstall the packages I just removed? Im dutch and my englisch isnt so good :/
[03:44] <BrianAnthony> how do I mount an external harddrive
[03:44] <smx> your english is better than my girlfriends'
[03:44] <hawke> rel: You can upgrade its dependencies.  But if it depends on a new package, the new package will not automatically be pulled in.
[03:44] <rel> BrianAnthony, like a local hdd in most cases.. when linux can speak to it that is
[03:45] <hawke> rel: if you watch the version number, and do 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop' when it changes, you will get a list of other packages that it wants to pull in from dependencies, and then manually install those.
[03:45] <rel> hawke, oke.. understand it. guess apt will mention that to me if these new pkgs where added. Il manually apt them if needed
[03:45] <hawke> BrianAnthony: USB?
[03:46] <BrianAnthony> it auto detected
[03:46] <BrianAnthony> I was afraid it wouldn't pick up the fat file systen
[03:46] <rel> hawke, okay. ty
[03:46] <smx> here's one for ya: does it hurt anything to use, say, aptitude one time, then synaptic the next?
[03:47] <hawke> smx: nope.
[03:47] <rel> smx, they use the same database
[03:47] <smx> damn   debian folks are smart, aye?
[03:47] <rel> smx, it would hurt when using them at the same time
[03:47] <smx> apt is flat out the best program for linux I've ever used
[03:48] <smx> lol
[03:48] <rel> smx, tried portage?
[03:48] <smx> yuppers
[03:48] <smx> pain in the arse
[03:48] <rel> heh.. its evolving.
[03:48] <rel> nah
[03:48] <sladen> rel: ''didn't have the time ;-)''
[03:48] <smx> compared to apt?
[03:48] <rel> quite funny
[03:48] <hawke> rel: I have, but IMO apt is quite better.
[03:48] <rel> sladen, :)
[03:49] <smx> portage is better than apt?
[03:49] <smx> I installed gentoo once
[03:49] <rel> hawke, no doubt. second place is portage. they just need to provide a binary repository
[03:49] <smx> Took me four days
[03:49] <rel> smx, learn alot i guess?
[03:49] <pussfeller> portage is good especially if you have certian needs  for certain flags
[03:49] <smx> lol
[03:50] <smx> learned that I don't like gentoo
[03:50] <rel> pussfeller, true.. its very flexible
[03:50] <pussfeller> i like apt too now tho
[03:50] <socomm> apt is boring.
[03:50] <smx> the worst of all is YAST
[03:50] <socomm> Where's the fun in apt-getting everything?!
[03:50] <hawke> heh
[03:51] <sladen> socomm: you get to play with it quicker
[03:51] <socomm> Back in my days we build everything from source.
[03:51] <pussfeller> doesnt yast cost money
[03:51] <rel> socomm, it gives me the space to jerkoff
[03:51] <smx> "tar xjvf"
[03:51] <rel> pusling, want that opensourcd
[03:51] <socomm> None of that instant gratification for me. No thanks!
[03:51] <fsc> ...back in my days we had punch cards..and walked two miles in the snow uphill to school -both ways
[03:51] <smx> lol
[03:51] <socomm> And we loved it!
[03:52] <fsc> and we were grateful
[03:52] <smx> I really have compiled and installed KDE by hand
[03:52] <socomm> Now you got all these out of shape kids with their apt-get, and their pkg_add.
[03:52] <smx> needless to say, I had a lot of time on my hands
[03:52] <fsc> yeah, we all know that compiling code burns them calories
[03:53] <bascule> back in my day, black hats used to run in to the computer room and throm cokroaches into the rlay arrays, and enjoyed it
[03:53] <fsc> heh
[03:53] <hawke> bascule: lol
[03:53] <rel> one thing I've never understood is to compile/configure a custom kernel with apt.
[03:53] <mike998> thbis is strange
[03:53] <socomm> 'thbis' is strange!
[03:54] <mike998> indeed
[03:54] <mike998> you making fun of me and my dyslexic fingers?
[03:54] <jesuel> yes... :)
[03:55] <mike998> heh at the moment saying "this is strange" is about five minuites away from throwing this stupid wireless access point out the window
[03:55] <jesuel> haha ;p
[03:55] <mike_douglas> how can I get apt to think that a package is installed?
[03:55] <jesuel> dont forget the computer with it
[03:55] <mike998> ubuntu+wireless=trouble and problems
[03:55] <mike998> oh no not the computer... my laptop and me... we are..uh...
[03:55] <fsc> this comment is so bizarre and wrong -http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=65767&postcount=16
[03:55] <mike998> friends
[03:55] <jesuel> hahah
[03:55] <fsc> mike998, ndiswrapper?
[03:55] <bascule> linux/wireless/firmware /drivers/ dodgy patent laws == trouble
[03:55] <mike998> fsc yep
[03:56] <socomm> mike998: ubuntu=wirless+trouble?
[03:56] <jesuel> mike998, what kinda laptop?
[03:56] <fsc> mike998, did you upgrade to hoary?
[03:56] <socomm> s/wirless/wireless
[03:56] <mike998> dell inspiron 1150
[03:56] <jesuel> ahh
[03:56] <fsc> mike998, make sure you have the right ndiswrapper for your kernel
[03:56] <jesuel> im very partial to my amd64 laptop
[03:56] <mike998> fsc yep on hoary now.. it's the way that I got it to work
[03:56] <mike998> uh?
[03:56] <mike998> ummm
[03:56] <jesuel> but i dont have the guts to install linux on it
[03:57] <mike998> it's getting close to my installing XP back on this thing to get wireless running
[03:57] <nomasteryoda> get some guts man
[03:57] <jesuel> heh
[03:57] <fsc> mike998, i didn't upgrade my kernel in the initial horary upgrade and ndiswrapper got updated
[03:57] <nomasteryoda> lol
[03:57] <jesuel> i got 3 linux systems and one windows
[03:57] <fsc> mike998, i thought you said you got wireless working?
[03:57] <jesuel> not too bad so far
[03:57] <bascule> mike998: din't you dare, we'll come round
[03:57] <nomasteryoda> cool
[03:57] <mike998> lol
[03:57] <mike998> fsc: nope i /thought/ I had it working
[03:58] <mike998> it was coming up but I only got a hold of a wirless router today
[03:58] <jesuel> amd64 + ati radeon graphics card, + wireless ...uhm worried about linux with that combo
[03:58] <mike998> hang on a second... gotta play with my network settings to see if i can get this thing on my wired network
[03:58] <fsc> mike998, i had problems with ndiswrapper until i upgraded the kernel to match the current ndiswrapper in hoary
[04:02] <hawke> rel: Have you investigated the package 'kernel-package' for building a custom kernel?
[04:06] <BrianAnthony> does anyone know the package name for Xine?
[04:06] <smx> what is an ndiswrapper?
[04:06] <hawke> smx: A wrapper for an NDIS driver.
[04:06] <bretzel> xine, in the multiverse or / and universe repository
[04:06] <hawke> smx: NDIS is a standard network driver API.
[04:06] <smx> ohhhhh
[04:07] <hawke> smx: use by Windows.
[04:07] <smx> Yuppers. I get it.
[04:07] <sladen> smx: a 'glue' driver to use binary windows drivers for network devices not directly supported by Linux:  http://www.google.com/search?q=ndiswrapper
[04:07] <hawke> k
[04:07] <smx> <-- Not the sharpest tool in the shed
[04:08] <bretzel> I have a problem: no more menu in top main panel in Gnome ... hoecomes !???? Don;t feel like to rm Gnome/Gnome2 directory and re-start themes and other stuff!!!
[04:09] <bretzel> It is the second time it happens to me. Even on Warty. I huess it is gnome bug.
[04:09] <bascule> try adding it with a right-click add to panel
[04:09] <bretzel> huess:: read guess ...
[04:09] <cisei> BrianAnthony: libxine1 + xine-ui or totem-xine
[04:10] <cisei> apt-get install totem-xine will take care of everything
[04:10] <rel> hawke, about to..
[04:10] <bretzel> bascule: All i can have is the "standard" Main menu... it is no more the Ubuntu menu setup
[04:10] <hawke> rel: If you need help, I exist.
[04:11] <rel> hawke, thanks mate!
[04:11] <bascule> bretzel: O I see, no ides, sorry
[04:12] <inc> sup peeps
[04:12] <BrianAnthony> it says it's not found
[04:13] <hawke> rel: which is not to suggest that my existence is dependent on your need for assistance.
[04:13] <BrianAnthony> totem-xine that is
[04:13] <hawke> BrianAnthony: xine-ui
[04:13] <smx> Thanks for the help, guys. I plan on staying with ubuntu for awhile -- small problems here and there, but it rocks, don't it? Night ...
[04:13] <rel> hawke, that package wants gcc3.3, any chance that I can set gcc3.4 for the compilations
[04:13] <cisei> BrianAnthony: make sure you have the repositories as per Ubuntuguide
[04:13] <hawke> rel: Not sure, I think the kernel just uses whatever is 'gcc'
[04:13] <rel> hawke, we all exist because we depend on eatchother somehow
[04:14] <hawke> rel: This is true.
[04:16] <inc> so how's the stable version of hoary coming alone hehe
[04:16] <Ainvar> I am about to try it as I am typing this
[04:16] <Ainvar> doing a dist-upgrade to it now
[04:16] <Pluk> coming along very good :)
[04:17] <Ainvar> all I can say this is one of the best distros I have had the pleasure of trying out
[04:17] <Ainvar> very quick too
[04:18] <jeramey> Ainvar, i agree. i'm shocked to find a linux distro that a) works on my laptop and b) doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out :)
[04:18] <eskilo> GATES: We're responsible for the creation of the PC industry.
[04:19] <Ainvar> yup and it is not a bloated distro
[04:19] <rel> ahum
[04:19] <Ainvar> forgot what it was like to finda  linux distro still on one cd
[04:19] <eskilo> i was blown away by ubuntu when i installed it.
[04:19] <nomasteryoda> kinda does that to ya
[04:20] <Ainvar> never been a big fan of gnome but it isa ctually a nice desktop system the way ubuntu has it setup
[04:20] <eskilo> i think gnome is awesome.
[04:20] <Ainvar> it is growing on me
[04:20] <eskilo> please don't say you like kde. :)
[04:20] <eskilo> i'll gouge my eyes out.
[04:20] <Ainvar> I do
[04:20] <jeramey> yeah, i never figured gnome would be speedy, but it's come a long way since i last seriously used it (which, granted, was back in 2000 or so)
[04:20] <Ainvar> haha
[04:21] <Ainvar> only reason I like kde over gnoe I guess is the way the file browseer is
[04:21] <eskilo> i think there's a fundamentally different train of thought between kde likers and non-likers.
[04:21] <Ainvar> other than that I like gnoe for everything else
[04:21] <eskilo> it's like our brains work differently.
[04:21] <inc> i like fluxbox
[04:21] <nomasteryoda> eskilo, call the doctor  cause you're now blinde
[04:21] <Ainvar> you are correct sir!
[04:21] <eskilo> flux is the best
[04:21] <nomasteryoda> lol
[04:21] <nomasteryoda> flux is good ...
[04:21] <nomasteryoda> i use kde mostly
[04:21] <eskilo> nomasteryoda:  i'm blind?
[04:21] <Ainvar> prolly does not help Ia m left handed
[04:21] <eskilo> kde is so ugly.
[04:22] <nomasteryoda> lol
[04:22] <nomasteryoda> ok
[04:22] <eskilo> just my opinion.
[04:22] <inc> you can get nice themes for kde
[04:22] <nomasteryoda> nice ones for flux too
[04:22] <inc> get a pretty mac os x theme
[04:22] <inc> hehe
[04:22] <eskilo> even with themes.  it's "feel" and behavior feel so odd to me.  it's very windows-like i think.
[04:22] <nomasteryoda> damnsmall has good implementation
[04:22] <eskilo> its
[04:22] <jeramey> inc:  and then be sad you aren't actually using OS X ;)
[04:22] <dud> i really don't like kde either
[04:22] <inc> hhmm kde .. windows like?? no...
[04:22] <dud> its as eskilo says, something about the feel
[04:23] <Ainvar> prolly why I liked kde over gnome since I am windows user primarily
[04:23] <eskilo> fluxbox would be perfect if it had better gnome interoperability.
[04:23] <inc> well kde is made so that windows user can just use it with out much fuss
[04:23] <Ainvar> but all three laptops are running ubuntu right now
[04:23] <dud> and in my experience, kde is very prone to breakage
[04:23] <Riddell> inc: no it isn't
[04:23] <Ainvar> just my server and main rig is running windows
[04:23] <nomasteryoda> inc, i really despise windows
[04:23] <nomasteryoda> kde is so much better
[04:23] <inc> flux is da bomb and i like using gnome nad kde apps hehe
[04:23] <bascule> eskilo: XFCE$ is what you want hten, it is *the* best, I ysed gnome for a week, thought it was nice, started XFCE again today, and that is it :)
[04:24] <Ainvar> never really used flux
[04:24] <Ainvar> wait I dont think I ever used flux
[04:24] <dud> fluxbox is very excellent
[04:24] <inc> well i'm just saying isn't that what the makers of kde were going for... to windows users can switch
[04:24] <dud> but it could have better gnome support indeed
[04:24] <bascule> xfce4 wiukd be better than xfce$ I believe ... :P
[04:24] <Tzi> Hi =)
[04:24] <Ainvar> ohh and the unofficial ubuntu guide is very very nice
[04:24] <Ainvar> I rate  itu p there with the gentoo documeentation
[04:25] <Ainvar> ok my typing went downhill fast
[04:25] <inc> gentoo.. damn that coq
[04:25] <inc> cow
[04:25] <Riddell> inc: no
[04:25] <Tzi> I'm having problems with my Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop crashing while on battery.. it will crash within an hour, whether I begin on ac power or not.  Anyone have any idea what could be going on?
[04:25] <inc> riddell: what? lol
[04:26] <janc> Ainvar : i'll tell the gentoo documentation project manager
[04:26] <janc> will probably see him tomorrow  :)
[04:26] <Riddell> inc: KDE is not designed for windows users, it's designed to be the best desktop it can be (same as gnome et al)
[04:27] <bascule> isn't KDE just a mac clone?
[04:27] <bj_> hey people
[04:27] <Ainvar> janc, that would be cool
[04:27] <janc> don't know if he will be amused  ;)
[04:27] <Riddell> bascule: I refer the honourable gentleman to the answer I gave some moments ago
[04:27] <bj_> I cant sign in to a normal gnome session. metacity hangs
[04:28] <bj_> Is there a log somewhere to see whats going ojn
[04:28] <bascule> Riddell: OK :)
[04:28] <janc> and i'm not sure he will come to the anti-swpats demo today
[04:28] <inc> but i tell you what sit a windows user that never touched linux in front of kde or gnome and the poor windows user will some what feel drawn to the KDE
[04:29] <janc> inc : depends on how his system was set up
[04:29] <inc> i'm talking stock
[04:29] <bascule> I reckon win98/Me/2000 users will pick gnome XP eill pick KDE
[04:29] <janc> nobody is using stock windows :-P
[04:30] <inc> ok?
[04:30] <inc> hey as long as it's linux it's all good
[04:30] <bascule> just cause KDE is like a chick with too much make-up on, like XP
[04:30] <bascule> :P
[04:30] <Ainvar> hahaha

[04:30] <Ainvar> I like that
[04:30] <skel_home> so is it safe to add debian apt sources to ubuntu?
[04:31] <bascule> :))
[04:31] <skel_home> like I would like eric3 (a python IDE ) but its not in warty
[04:31] <farruinn> skel_home: not usually
[04:31] <skel_home> I guess i can wait until hoary
[04:31] <farruinn> skel_home: if it's in hoary it would be better to add a deb-src line for hoary and 'apt-get source -b eric3'
[04:31] <inc> bascule: if you going that route the flux box is the striped down motorcycle
[04:32] <inc> that kicks butt
[04:32] <skel_home> farruinn: isn't it bad to mix the two releases? messes up deps?
[04:32] <ShadeofGrey> okay - this officially blows. i JUST downloaded the x86 version and every time i run it it HANGS right after asking me the user locale info. at least in the 64bit version the installer didnt crash
[04:32] <farruinn> skel_home: yes, but you are less likely to run into trouble by building the hoary source package on your warty box
[04:33] <goli> i am trying to mount a windows share using... mount -t smbfs -o username=goli,password=goli //server/folder mntpnt/....but it is complaining that wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on //athena/data ...but this works from my debian m/c
[04:33] <ShadeofGrey> what program do i use to check the md5 signatures
[04:33] <janc> debian & ubuntu are also '2 releases'?
[04:33] <bascule> inc: yeah, and xfce is the balance yuou know you want ....
[04:33] <skel_home> farruinn: ok thanks. I'll try that
[04:33] <snowblink> ShadeofGrey: md5sum
[04:33] <inc> must have dockapps
[04:33] <farruinn> skel_home: the apt howto at www.debian.org/doc is pretty good
[04:33] <bascule> it does
[04:33] <eskilo> is sha1 really broken?
[04:34] <inc> xfce has the mouse right
[04:34] <bascule> I have rhythmbox as a little musical note right now
[04:34] <eskilo> inc yeah
[04:34] <bascule> inc: yeah thats it
[04:34] <eskilo> if i really felt like taking the effort to tweak fluxbox to get sessioning like in gnome and all of that, it would be the best.
[04:35] <eskilo> not worth it though really.  gnome is good stuff.
[04:35] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: Sounds like you might have the same stability problems that I did running x86 on x86-64.
[04:35] <bascule> eskilo: xfce have already done that for you
[04:35] <snowblink> goli: apt-get install smbfs
[04:35] <eskilo> eskilo:  xfce have made a version of fluxbox that is really good with gnome compatability?
[04:35] <inc> i judge distros on their logos
[04:35] <bascule> lol
[04:35] <eskilo> inc:   hah
[04:36] <bascule> eskilo: practically yes
[04:36] <inc> debian has a cool logo
[04:36] <goli> snowblink, thanks so much...doing now
[04:36] <calamari> hi
[04:37] <eskilo> bascule:  interesting.  when i last used it, it didn't seem to do anything better than gnome.
[04:37] <ramb0> is there some way to have color on the RC scripts?
[04:37] <ramb0> like on gentoo
[04:37] <bascule> I didn't say better, I said balance, I mean balance between bloat and functionality
[04:38] <bascule> fluxbox toooooo stripped for comfort, gnome, fat. xfce .... balanced
[04:38] <mike998_> still nothing on this wirless access point
[04:39] <inc> fluxbox- beat the bloat
[04:39] <mike998_> i don't even see it transmitting
[04:40] <inc> bascule: just go with console... no need for x-window
[04:40] <goli> snowblink, thanks again...it worked...i thought apt-get install samba would do
[04:40] <bascule> weel that is too far, ratpoison, hell screen .. why not, then wmacs and your own LISP stuff ...
[04:40] <eskilo> bascule:  good point about balanced.
[04:40] <bascule> not me :)
[04:40] <eskilo> is it easy to set up xfce in ubuntu?
[04:40] <rel> mike998, iwconfig all ok?
[04:41] <mike998_> looks like it is
[04:41] <bascule> eskilo: yeah it was what I really wanted, and xfce does that for mew
[04:41] <mike998_> ohh essid off/any.. .that's gonna cause problems
[04:41] <rel> mike998, I had success with ndiswrapper on my precision dell laptop
[04:41] <snowblink> goli: np. smbfs is for doing mount/umount commands
[04:41] <bascule> eskilo: err, I dunno, i chroot ubuntu most of the time
[04:41] <rel> mike998, yes. maybe reset your ap, so that it transmits its essid
[04:42] <mike998_> rel: I thought I had it up and running until I actually got my router
[04:42] <mike998_> hang on - that will cause me to lose my connection
[04:43] <mike998__> the thing is, I don't see any activity on my wlan led
[04:44] <rel> strange, it could be a defect in hardware
[04:44] <mike998__> i had this thing running XP and it could pick up 3 wirless networks in this building
[04:44] <mike998__> might be a problem with the router though
[04:44] <Ainvar> mike998__ what kinda wifi card you have?
[04:44] <ShadeofGrey> okay i just checked the MD5's
[04:45] <ShadeofGrey> they match
[04:45] <rel> yes, a wl router?
[04:45] <ShadeofGrey> i dont get it
[04:45] <Ainvar> and what kinda wlan router?
[04:45] <mike998__> if I do a ndiswrapper -l it shows me bcmwl5  driver present, hardware present
[04:45] <bascule> iwconfig wlan0 Mode managed ad-hoc
[04:45] <mike998__> and it's a dlink di-524
[04:45] <Ainvar> just might be a simple setting with it
[04:45] <rel> dmesg?
[04:46] <mike998__> nothing really in dmesg
[04:46] <rel> mike998, I am using the same driver
[04:46] <eskilo> brb..trying xfce
[04:46] <rel> mike998, did you modprobe ndiswrapper?
[04:46] <mike998__> rel: as far as I can tell the drivers are pretty much the same across the different laptops
[04:46] <mike998__> yeah, and there is still nothing
[04:47] <ShadeofGrey> this sucks! i totally dont get it ... i downloaded the amd64 liveCD. ran fine. the installer version hung on the hot something manager every time, didnt ask for input into how i wanted grub configured, and didnt ask me what kiknd of install i wanted.. made a mess of my masterboot record and made it impossible to boot to windows. after the amd64 install i couldnt even get any of my windows boot disks to work
[04:47] <Pluk> darn gdm messing with my DPI
[04:47] <bascule> dots per inch?
[04:47] <Pluk> yup
[04:47] <mike998__> veeery strange is this
[04:47] <Pluk> fixed it already though
[04:47] <snowblink> mike998: does iwconfig show correct details?
[04:48] <rel> mike998, if dmesg doesnt report any wlan card then its not your router. funny thig is why iwconfig shows the iface
[04:48] <ShadeofGrey> tonight i grabbed the x86 liveCD. again it worked fine. the minute i run the main installer it asks for the language and input locale and then hangs at the blue screen. i even tried the special install option to ignore the buggy interrupt thing
[04:48] <mike998__> ifconfig shows the wlan0 interface
[04:48] <nomasteryoda> mike998, check the card version
[04:48] <Pluk> ShadeofGrey, warty?
[04:48] <mike998__> nomateryoda: how can I do that?
[04:48] <nomasteryoda> lspci
[04:49] <dakam> Hello again...
[04:49] <mike998__> 0000:02:02.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4306 802.11b/g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 03)
[04:49] <mike998__> internal
[04:49] <Pluk> hi dakam
[04:49] <nomasteryoda> mike998, you need the bcmwl5a driver
[04:49] <dakam> got an error
[04:49] <dakam> Totem could not play 'http://<IP_ADDRESS>:80/stream/1003'.
[04:49] <nomasteryoda> i have same card here
[04:49] <nomasteryoda> basically same ...
[04:49] <ShadeofGrey> Pluk: YES
[04:49] <nomasteryoda> using ndiswrapper
[04:49] <mike998__> hmmm okay - I tried the bcmwl5a driver and it didn't work
[04:49] <mike998__> didn't even come up.
[04:49] <nomasteryoda> ok
[04:50] <nomasteryoda> well, maybe not then
[04:50] <Ainvar> firmware?
[04:50] <dakam> Why wont Rhythm Play MP3?
[04:50] <dakam> and where do i get the MP3 Plug
[04:50] <snowblink> mike998: You have configured with iwconfig for your essid? Your router allows your MAC?
[04:50] <hawke> dakam: Install gstreamer-0.8-mad
[04:50] <dakam> ok?
[04:50] <mike998__> ESSID is showing off/any
[04:50] <ShadeofGrey> could it be because i have fedora installed?
[04:50] <hawke> dakam: gstreamer0.8-mad rather
[04:50] <nomasteryoda> mike998, encryption?
[04:51] <mike998__> set
[04:51] <nomasteryoda> ok
[04:51] <rel> mike998, Im using the bmcwl5 driver found on Dell's website. And have exactly the same wireless card
[04:51] <zenwhen> does anyone have a clean /etc/modules.d/alsabase i can look at?
[04:51] <nomasteryoda> rel, using dell driver here too
[04:51] <dakam> where would i get it?
[04:51] <nomasteryoda> bcmwl5a
[04:51] <snowblink> mike998: perhaps try sans encryption first?
[04:51] <hawke> Is there an easy (GUI) way to allow another user beyond the first to admin the system?
[04:52] <mike998__> snowblink: I believe I tried that before but I can try again
[04:52] <inc> mike998: I set my /etc/network/interfaces with this and my wireless nic works fine http://minimzx.com/interfaces
[04:52] <Ainvar> wow over 920 packages to upgrade to hoarty
[04:52] <bascule> hawke: edit /etc/sudoers, copy the line exactly, nor GUI but easy
[04:52] <ShadeofGrey> where do i get the hoarty iso's?
[04:52] <dakam> ok Hawke where would i find gstreamer-0.8-mad
[04:53] <mike998__> inc: checking now
[04:53] <bascule> gstreamer0.8-mad
[04:53] <Ainvar> uhh hI did a search on google for it to find the link
[04:53] <dud> ShadeofGrey, see the topic
[04:53] <farruinn> bascule: isn't there a command like visudo or something that adds users to /etc/sudoers?
[04:53] <hawke> dakam: Search in synaptic
[04:54] <dakam> im in synaptic and i couldnt find -mad but i found everything else
[04:54] <bascule> I tink visudo is a safety thing to stop concurrent edits, I may be wrong
[04:54] <hawke> bascule: Yeah, I know how to do it manually, just wondering if there's an option that I'm missing somewhere...it really ought to be a systematic thing, IMO.  Like the Mac, "Allow this user to administer the system"
[04:54] <hawke> dakam: You may have to add "universe"
[04:54] <rel> dakam, maybe u need to enable multiverse in sources.list
[04:54] <blackdog> hi, what's the easy way of installing fonts? i found dfontmgr, it's too long winded tho
[04:54] <bascule> yeah I guess, the *nix way eh ... :)
[04:54] <mike998__> inc: heh - it REALLY didn't like that config
[04:54] <dakam> can you walk me through that? im not very sure on it
[04:55] <mike998__> I gotta get a mop to clean up the error messages my laptop barfed there
[04:55] <bascule> hawke, there is that 'wheel' group thing, then add user to group wheel
[04:55] <farruinn> blackdog: the fonts:/// location in nautilus
[04:55] <farruinn> drag-n-drop
[04:55] <inc> you try iwconfig ath0
[04:55] <rjgrel> does warty only have the sources for linux kernel 2.6.7 in the repository?
[04:55] <blackdog> ah :), ok, I admit it, I'm testing xfce4.2
[04:56] <rjgrel> i don't see anything above 2.6.7
[04:56] <blackdog> thanks
[04:56] <hawke> bascule: does that allow them to use sudo? I wouldn't think so...
[04:56] <bascule> think so
[04:56] <mike998__> inc: I changed the interface name to wlan0, tried again and nothing
[04:56] <bascule> or if they are in wheel they don't need it
[04:56] <mike998__> it's showing the correct information
[04:56] <bascule> # %wheel        ALL=(ALL)       NOPASSWD: ALL
[04:57] <bascule> # %wheel        ALL=(ALL)       ALL <-- same as sudo ???
[04:57] <inc> mike998: you in flood?
[04:57] <ShadeofGrey> alright guys. im d-loading the newest hoarty version for x86 -- if it doesnt install this time im writing off ubuntu and returning to Fedora core 3.
[04:57] <hawke> bascule: Ah, my sudoers doesn't ahve that.
[04:57] <rel> mike, what when you give iwconfig essid "default"?
[04:57] <dr_willis_> ShadeofGrey,  Hmm. whats not installing on the other tries?
[04:58] <rel> busted
[04:58] <inc> mike998: will in the setup i showed you did you change ath0 to wlan0? and input the essid that you are usinf and the rest?
[04:58] <hawke> bascule: Heh, 's OK.  Except for the NOPASSWD: ALL, that sounds right to me.
[04:59] <ShadeofGrey> dr_willis_: on the amd64 version the installer NEVER asked what kind of install, or how i wanted grub configured - it set grub with ONLY ubuntu in the list, and failed to start after the initial install and reboot that was supposed to lead to the end of the install... and i had to install fedora to fix the mess it made of my MBR -- after installing the 64 bit version it wouldnt even allow my system to boot from floppy even after i ch
[05:00] <ShadeofGrey> NOW - on the warty version of i386, the installer wont even get as far as the amd64 version. it asks for language and input locale and then hangs at the blue screen
[05:00] <ShadeofGrey> how messed up is that???
[05:00] <mebaran151> try a Hoary disk
[05:00] <mebaran151> they are very stable now
[05:00] <mebaran151> and work pretty well
[05:00] <mebaran151> I have some weird hardware and the install went ok
[05:00] <rel> ShadeofGrey, just installed hoary amd64 a hour ago.. like a dream was the installation
[05:00] <mebaran151> and I am on AMD6
[05:00] <mebaran151> 4
[05:00] <bascule> root@Kript:/ # cat /etc/issue
[05:00] <bascule> Ubuntu 5.04 "Hoary Hedgehog" Development Branch \n \l
[05:00] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: 32-bit warty locked for me consistently on 64-bit hardware.
[05:01] <farruinn> ShadeofGrey: why would the i386 install disc ask about amd64?
[05:01] <bascule> <-- cheat
[05:01] <rjgrel> is it possible to dist-upgrade to hoary?
[05:01] <mebaran151> yeah
[05:01] <mebaran151> just change your sources
[05:01] <bascule> yes, from a cheroo if you like :P
[05:01] <mebaran151> to hoary sources
[05:01] <bascule> chroot*
[05:01] <jesuel> so where can i dl a iso of hoary a64?
[05:01] <dr_willis_> ShadeofGrey,  Interesting....
[05:01] <mebaran151> and distpugrade way
[05:01] <farruinn> jesuel: /topic
[05:02] <mebaran151> cdimage.ubuntu.com
[05:02] <ShadeofGrey> hawke: so what do you suggest? the horary ver. of amd64?
[05:02] <mebaran151> it is pretty clear
[05:02] <mebaran151> yeah
[05:02] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: probably.
[05:02] <mebaran151> try the Hoary version
[05:02] <mebaran151> the Warty version never gave me a good X Server
[05:02] <ShadeofGrey> will 32 bit applications run?
[05:02] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: you can work with the grub menu.lst to add windows back in, if you need to.
[05:02] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: They should.
[05:02] <mebaran151> which 32 bit apps?
[05:03] <mebaran151> you arent going to have a full set of 32 bit libraries
[05:03] <mebaran151> but if you are willing to play with the chroot
[05:03] <mebaran151> you can bootstrap yourself enough
[05:03] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: what was the problem with the x86 hoary?
[05:04] <rel> mebaran151, why would one use chroot to run apps on 64?
[05:04] <rjgrel> i'm dist-upgrading to a64 hoary
[05:04] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: You should be able to work with the /boot/grub/menu.lst to get windows to boot..
[05:04] <ShadeofGrey> hawke: havent tried it. dloading it now
[05:04] <ShadeofGrey> so far im not impressed guys
[05:04] <dr_willis_> How well done is the PPC versions of Ubuntu? about to 'fix' an imac :P
[05:04] <ShadeofGrey> i cant believe this distro won 3 arstechnica awards
[05:05] <farruinn> dr_willis_: G5 imac?
[05:05] <mebaran151> rel, if you want to run 32 bits
[05:05] <mebaran151> other than like openoffice
[05:05] <mebaran151> you have to build a chroot
[05:05] <dr_willis_> ShadeofGrey,  actually you are one of the FIRST ive ever heard thats had any issues at all installing this Disrto.
[05:05] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: Presumably they're judging 32-bit Ubuntu on 32-bit hardware
[05:05] <mebaran151> so that apt and the library loader
[05:05] <dr_willis_> farruinn,  old imac DV. its a g3 i think.
[05:05] <bascule> ShadeofGrey: you are trollong but here goes, if you were the rule rather than the exception it wouldn't have now would it?
[05:05] <farruinn> dr_willis_: I don't think you'll have much trouble
[05:06] <MacPlusG3> dr_willis_: i've used the livecd on ppc (still running debian on my ppc). works well. (Hoary live that is)
[05:06] <dr_willis_> farruinn,  i seem tor ecall ages ago with YellowDog - getting the thing to boot the cd was funky. the 'c' key dident boot it - i had to twiddle with the firmweare.
[05:06] <ShadeofGrey> dr_willis_: i just dont get why its having problems. its an athlon64 3500 with a gig of 3200 ram and i gave it a 200gig drive to install to
[05:06] <dr_willis_> MacPlusG3,  cool. theres a livePPc cd eh.. got to track that down.
[05:06] <dr_willis_> ShadeofGrey,  ide drive? serial ata?
[05:06] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: Because it's an athlon64.  That's basically it.
[05:06] <MacPlusG3> dr_willis_: see /topic for array 4. grap the ppc one from there
[05:07] <mebaran151> I am running AMD^$ now
[05:07] <dr_willis_> I got an AMD64 machine here.. i had issues with it the other day.. but wasent sure what was the cause.. GRUB dident boot. may be due to me haveing a Serial ATA raid also on the box.
[05:07] <farruinn> dr_willis_: booting with c key didn't work on an imac? that doesn't sound right
[05:07] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: Oh yeah, sata could be a problem too...forgot about that.
[05:07] <MacPlusG3> farruinn, dr_willis_ : could just have been that CD
[05:08] <mebaran151> if you are on an NV chipset
[05:08] <mebaran151> the sata_nv is pretty flawless for me
[05:08] <ShadeofGrey> hawke: they're the best processors on the market... if your telling me ubuntu isnt suitable for them -- thats a dumb manuever on the developers part
[05:08] <rel> mebaran151, oke. first time using 64 today. didnt know what to expect. all is running fine, wthout chroot. also openoffice works out of the box
[05:08] <mebaran151> rel, yep
[05:08] <farruinn> MacPlusG3: that'd be my guess
[05:08] <mebaran151> it will
[05:08] <mebaran151> the chroot is only for stuff like 32 bit Java and Flash
[05:08] <rel> aha
[05:08] <mebaran151> not GNU FLash but macromedia
[05:08] <rel> I see :)
[05:08] <ShadeofGrey> okay .. correction -- best NONPPC chipson the market
[05:09] <rel> mebaran151, I was afraid nvidia-kernel wouldnt work. but that went fine.
[05:09] <MacPlusG3> ShadeofGrey: AMD64 in 64bit mode has come a long way recently. there's still some problems (e.g. the bi-arch stuff). reporting problems in bugzilla is a good idea too
[05:09] <mebaran151> yeah
[05:09] <mebaran151> Ubuntu is sexy for AMD64
[05:09] <Pluk> ubuntu is sexy whatsoever
[05:09] <ShadeofGrey> well all im saying is that i chose ubuntu because i want to learn linux and fedora core 3 is painfully slow
[05:09] <mebaran151> the only 32 bit app I use is Openoffice
[05:09] <hawke> ShadeofGrey: Not saying that...or at least not that it's intentional.  But I personally experienced lockups with 32-bit warty on amd64, and very minor problems with 64-bit warty on amd64 (windows wasn't detected so I had to add it to grub's menu.lst manually)
[05:09] <mebaran151> so I really dont have to complain
[05:09] <ShadeofGrey> with a gig of ram it still takes almost four minutes to comeup
[05:10] <mebaran151> ShadeofGrey, what are you loading
[05:10] <mebaran151> my Ubuntu Box on half that
[05:10] <mebaran151> with the same processor
[05:10] <bascule> ShadeofGrey: FC does? omg!!
[05:10] <mebaran151> takes like 2 minutes
[05:10] <jesuel> hoary 64 has the 32bit library availible right?
[05:10] <mebaran151> you sure something isnt really messed up
[05:10] <salti> hi all
[05:10] <mebaran151> Jesuel you have to give them a chroot
[05:10] <ShadeofGrey> bascule: yeah. fedora core 3 is ridiculously slow
[05:11] <jesuel> now how do i do that ;p
[05:11] <bascule> that is awful ... ughh <PUKE>
[05:11] <rjgrel> when i dist-upgrade from warty to hoary, will it install the correct amd64 apps?
[05:11] <jesuel> cause i play q3 and there is not 64 bit binary for it ;p
[05:11] <ShadeofGrey> mebaran151: if something is messed up, fedora hasnt complained about it ... its just friggin slow as all hell
[05:12] <ShadeofGrey> and i have a 128 bit graphics card with 256 of vmemory
[05:12] <eskilo> being in xfce was terrible.
[05:12] <ShadeofGrey> even with all the eyecandy enabled it shouldnt take 3 minutes
[05:12] <hawke> rjgrel: Are you running amd64 already, or x86?
[05:12] <MacPlusG3> ShadeofGrey: is the card supported and does it have accellerated drivers? was it detected?
[05:12] <bascule> eskilo: you didn't like it :(
[05:12] <ShadeofGrey> YES
[05:12] <eskilo> no.
[05:12] <bascule> why?
[05:12] <eskilo> it had this way over-produced feel.
[05:12] <ShadeofGrey> g'night guys
[05:12] <eskilo> and the panels weren't configurable.
[05:13] <rjgrel> hawke: amd64 already
[05:13] <ShadeofGrey> ill check in tomorrow
[05:13] <bascule> eskilo: compared to Gnome you thought that ... ????
[05:13] <eskilo> yeah.
[05:13] <eskilo> gnome is so structured and intuitive.
[05:13] <bascule> OK
[05:13] <hawke> rjgrel: Then it should get the correct packages with dist-upgrade
[05:13] <rjgrel> ok, just making sure :)
[05:13] <rjgrel> thanks
[05:13] <eskilo> the most structured and intuitive would be fluxbox, but i like gnome's gnome compatibility. :)
[05:14] <mebaran151> hey XFCE is real cool
[05:14] <Pluk> yeah it is
[05:14] <Pluk> xfce rox
[05:14] <Pluk> rox rox too
[05:14] <Pluk> :)
[05:14] <eskilo> i don't see what people like about it.
[05:14] <mebaran151> XFCE or rox
[05:14] <mebaran151> I dont like rox
[05:14] <mebaran151> but I like XFCE
[05:14] <mebaran151> even (gasp) the file manager
[05:15] <SiRrUs> anyone install from array 5 yet
[05:15] <bascule> mebaran151: your alone in liking xfce file manager .. nasty thing
[05:15] <mebaran151> haha
[05:15] <mebaran151> I probably am
[05:15] <rjgrel> i love xfce
[05:15] <rjgrel> xfce is all i use
[05:15] <mebaran151> I tend to use bash as my file manager
[05:15] <bascule> xfce is here it is at
[05:15] <Pluk> dont like xffm
[05:15] <mebaran151> rjgrel, here here, I approve
[05:15] <mebaran151> I find it is quicker just to use mv and rm
[05:16] <bascule> mebaran151: bash is the best file manager, with *Very* few exceptions
[05:16] <Dr_Willis> I tend to use 'mc' :P
[05:16] <mebaran151> I know waht is going to happen with bash
[05:16] <mebaran151> that is why I like it
[05:16] <mebaran151> I never get weird errors or nautilus complaining it cant do something
[05:16] <mebaran151> bash does it
[05:16] <mebaran151> and it does it quickly
[05:17] <darmou> does anyone here know how to use parted?
[05:17] <mebaran151> darmou
[05:17] <mebaran151> why not just use qtparted
[05:17] <mebaran151> if youre not resizing ext3
[05:17] <darmou> I'm trying to install ubuntu
[05:17] <mebaran151> qtparted should cut the bill
[05:17] <mebaran151> oh
[05:17] <mebaran151> cfdisk maybe
[05:17] <mebaran151> then
 I/O errors!!!!
[05:17] <mebaran151> it is easier than parted I find
[05:19] <SiRrUs> regeya_ is here :)
[05:19] <bascule> parted is one of those tools you can't really *learn* how to use, you either get ir right or you loose everything :P
[05:20] <hawke> bascule: heh
[05:20] <hawke> qtparted is pretty slick
[05:20] <bascule> it is
[05:20] <hawke> and several boot CDs include it.
[05:20] <hawke> systemrescuecd, for example
[05:20] <nomasteryoda> knoppix has it
[05:20] <nomasteryoda> ultimate boot cd too
[05:20] <hawke> nomasteryoda: yup
[05:20] <bascule> it does, feather?
[05:20] <hawke> and mepis installer cd does too
[05:21] <Amaranth> qtparted is a PITA
[05:21] <mebaran151> PITA?
[05:21] <mebaran151> I dont know what that means
[05:21] <Amaranth> pain in the ass
[05:21] <mebaran151> but qtparted keeps failing on me
[05:21] <mebaran151> I need to resize an NTFS partition
[05:21] <mebaran151> on my laptop
[05:22] <OmniColos> it means "it's nice with falafel"
[05:22] <Amaranth> qtparted never got beyond loading for me
[05:22] <darmou> cfdisk says cannot open disk drive my drive is /dev/rd/0
[05:22] <mebaran151> what kind of rd is it?
[05:22] <compmanio36> hey y
[05:22] <compmanio36> all
[05:22] <darmou> hardware rd
[05:22] <compmanio36> dumb keyboard :P
[05:22] <mebaran151> hardware rd
[05:22] <darmou> raid 0
[05:22] <hawke> darmou: rd == ramdisk... ???
[05:22] <mebaran151> is it like real rd
[05:22] <darmou> raid
[05:23] <mebaran151> or fake stuff that is in software
[05:23] <mebaran151> software raid uses drivers to work
[05:23] <hawke> darmou: it may be /dev/sda
[05:23] <hawke> darmou: what kind of raid card?
[05:23] <calamari> I heard that I could do ssh drag & drop from nautilus.. true or false ? :)
[05:23] <compmanio36> i recently got a Lexmark all-in-one X4270 that is supported through Windows but I can't find a driver for Linux
[05:23] <regeya_> fame?
[05:23] <mebaran151> calamari, you can
[05:23] <SiRrUs> your welcome
[05:23] <mebaran151> also ftp
[05:23] <regeya_> What, did my collection of homemade porn make it out into the wild?
[05:23] <calamari> mebaran151: how? :)
[05:23] <SiRrUs> :)
[05:24] <mebaran151> I think you go like
[05:24] <regeya_> o_O
[05:24] <mebaran151> ssh://(whatever path you use to ssh)
[05:24] <mebaran151> so for me
[05:24] <darmou> csb6 ultra
[05:24] <regeya_> gungh.
[05:24] <darmou> I have ata raid
[05:24] <mebaran151> I have never used it
[05:24] <mebaran151> as when I need to ssh
[05:24] <darmou> not scssi
[05:24] <SiRrUs> brb guys
[05:24] <darmou> there is no hd or sd devices
[05:24] <hawke> darmou: Some hardware ata raid cards show up as scsi devices
[05:25] <mebaran151> hawke, I think most do
[05:25] <mebaran151> as scsi is like the lowest common denominator
[05:25] <hawke> mebaran151: Could be, I don't have much experience with ide raid
[05:25] <mebaran151> why dont you do this
[05:25] <inc> I/O error :(
[05:26] <mebaran151> ls /dev/
[05:26] <mebaran151> and tell us what you see
[05:26] <mebaran151> we can find that pesky hdd
[05:26] <mebaran151> is this from the installer?
[05:26] <mebaran151> some distros use like devfs
[05:27] <bascule> ls /dev could be lengthy, ls -l /dev/sd*
[05:27] <Bandit> regeya did you say porn
[05:27] <mebaran151> pr0n please
[05:27] <mebaran151> my virgin eyes
[05:27] <Bandit> channel is getting wild i say
[05:28] <bascule> says the Bandit, now that is scary ... :P
[05:28] <Bandit> ;)
[05:28] <regeya> sorry for mentioning porn in a linux-centric channle
[05:28] <nomasteryoda> move this junk to #ubuntu-offtopic
[05:28] <hawke> hah
[05:28] <bascule> surely the two are inseperable
[05:28] <mebaran151> Linux is sexy
[05:28] <nomasteryoda> bascule, ask ESR about that
[05:29] <nomasteryoda> lol
[05:29] <inc> rm -rf /
[05:29] <regeya> O_o
[05:29] <BROKEN_LADDER> woah
[05:29] <regeya> okay okay
[05:29] <darmou> there are no sd devices
[05:29] <nomasteryoda> ewwwwww
[05:29] <regeya> settle down
[05:29] <Doc_Willis> Hay MacPlusG3  - this is dr_willis  down stairs next to the imac. :P trying to get Ubuntu on it..  Problem is - thers a cd in the drive.. i can tget it out - Lol. :P there some key sequence at boot time to pop out the cd?
[05:29] <bascule> hawke: that is just horrible and not what i need to hear :) (LMAO)
[05:29] <mebaran151> darmou
[05:29] <hawke> :-)
[05:29] <Bandit> lol regeya see what ya started
[05:29] <nomasteryoda> regeya, yea only do tha on TheLinuxShow .. =)
[05:30] <bascule> LOL!!
[05:30] <regeya> heh
[05:30] <bascule> mass exodus now
[05:30] <Bandit> ok what is a nick collision from services
[05:31] <MobyTurbo> Bandit, getting rid of a ghost present from a bad disconnection
[05:31] <hawke> God *damn* metacity sucks
[05:31] <Doc_Willis> MacPlusG3:  heh - i got it. :P
[05:31] <Bandit> MobyTurbo got it :)
[05:31] <mebaran151> what is wrong with metacity
[05:31] <mebaran151> I never used it
[05:31] <zenrox> ok i get a nifty error from xorg saying nvidia module ant the same and xorg dies out
[05:31] <mebaran151> yeah
[05:31] <hawke> mebaran151: Yeah you have, if you use ubuntu...it's the default gnome window manager.
[05:31] <Doc_Willis> mebaran151:  lack of featuers and silly eye candy that you cant disable are my 2 issues.
[05:31] <MobyTurbo> mebaran151, metacity is GNOME2's default WM, you probably have used it
[05:32] <mebaran151> oh really
[05:32] <mebaran151> I thought that was nautilus
[05:32] <Bandit> zenrox did you get your rpos sorted out
[05:32] <mebaran151> what you learn
[05:32] <hawke> mebaran151: No, nautilus is a file manager.
[05:32] <zenrox> Bandit:  yep now i just need to fix my vid card
[05:32] <mebaran151> hawke, yeah
[05:32] <mebaran151> I just realised taht
[05:32] <mebaran151> zenrox, just modprobe -f
[05:32] <OrangeSlice> hey now, Nautilus also handles the desktop.
[05:32] <Bandit> zenrox what was wrong with them
[05:32] <mebaran151> you wont break anything
[05:32] <bascule> Doc_Willis: I hear you can run Gnome on xfwm, is that true?
[05:32] <regeya> hey neat http://www.google.com/search?q=regeya
[05:32] <hawke> mebaran151: metacity is the program that draws the window borders and close/min/max buttons.
[05:32] <darmou> ok /dev/rd/0 is the only device avaliable and cfdisk thinks it is just 10mg which is totally incorrect:(
[05:33] <mebaran151> it doesnt seem THAT bad
[05:33] <regeya> first thing returned on a search on my nick is my happy-birthday message to my wife :-)
[05:33] <hawke> anyway, my beef with metacity is its focus-follows-mouse behaviour.
[05:33] <mebaran151> what else is there for gnome
[05:33] <hawke> I turn it on, and click in a window still brings it to front.
[05:33] <hawke> mebaran151: sawfish
[05:33] <Bandit> zenrox what was wrong with them
[05:33] <mebaran151> hmm
[05:33] <mebaran151> i shall try it
[05:33] <mebaran151> is it better or worse
[05:33] <mebaran151> remember I like eyecandy
[05:33] <hawke> mebaran151: I like it better, it's way more configurable.
[05:33] <mebaran151> but could do with some more functionality
[05:33] <hawke> mebaran151: visually it's the same.
[05:33] <mebaran151> oh
[05:33] <mebaran151> sweet
[05:34] <hawke> mebaran151: if you like functionality, sawfish has it...it's insanely configurable.
[05:34] <mebaran151> do I have to kill metacity for it to work
[05:34] <Doc_Willis> all rigthy. PPC Ubuntu is installing. :P
[05:34] <mebaran151> like destroy
[05:34] <hawke> mebaran151: yeah.
[05:34] <mebaran151> I mean completely purge it
[05:34] <hawke> mebaran151: oh, no
[05:34] <mebaran151> cool
[05:34] <lightcap> how to I get changes to /etc/group to take effect for a user that's not logging in? (for example a service being started by an init.d script)
[05:34] <Doc_Willis> Hmm. I notice my imacs screen is shifted to the left about 3 charcters. thats annoying.
[05:34] <hawke> mebaran151: Just 'killall metacity' until it stops respawning, run 'sawfish &', and then run gnome-session-save
[05:35] <lightcap> surely it doesnt reqiure a reboot
[05:35] <OmniColos> ubuntu was a brainless install on me ibook g3
[05:35] <hawke> mebaran151: unfortunately, no clean way to change window managers, at least that I know of.
[05:35] <mebaran151> anyway to do it without a kill
[05:35] <mebaran151> yeha
[05:35] <mebaran151> probably a gconf setting
[05:35] <OmniColos> tho I did warty...
[05:35] <bascule> hawke: can't you just select sawfish in some gnome preferences menu
[05:35] <hawke> bascule: Not anymore.
[05:35] <bascule> boo!
[05:35] <hawke> bascule: That was there in ... gnome 2.0 I think?
[05:35] <hawke> bascule: pissed me off when it was removed.
[05:36] <bascule> yeah, I remeber it from somewhere
[05:36] <Doc_Willis> I really liked sawfish.
[05:36] <mebaran151> here
[05:36] <mebaran151> to do a nice easy cahnge
[05:36] <christopher_> hey
[05:36] <mebaran151> you just go gconf
[05:36] <Doc_Willis> But that was when gnome went from 1.0 to 2.0 sawfish had some issues - so they want to Metacity - which like NO ONE had heard of.
[05:36] <christopher_> do any of you know how to play a ram file on Ubuntu
[05:36] <bascule> is ther one of those nautilus foo:/// things now?
[05:37] <regeya> ooh, ram...realaudio, right?
[05:37] <snowblink> christopher_: http://ubuntuguide.org/#realplayer
[05:37] <christopher_> correct
[05:37] <regeya> bless ye snowblink
[05:37] <bascule> realplayer, yuk use mplayer for those things, or xine
[05:38] <mebaran151> how can I check if sawfish is my manager
[05:38] <mebaran151> I just did a gconf
[05:39] <darmou> is /dev/rd/0 a real device cfdisk seems to think it's only 10 mb
[05:39] <hawke> mebaran151: 'ps auxww | grep sawfish'
[05:39] <Bandit> anyone install array 5?
[05:39] <hawke> mebaran151: and 'ps auxww | grep metacity'
[05:39] <zenrox> ok that dint work
[05:39] <snowblink> bascule: they can play streamed ram files?
[05:39] <bascule> yup
[05:39] <mebaran151> yeah
[05:39] <mebaran151> sawfish ir running
[05:39] <mebaran151> they look exactly the same
[05:39] <zenrox> it loaded the driver but just displays nvidia logo 3 times then its locked up
[05:39] <christopher_> hey
[05:39] <snowblink> bascule: cool. Goes and tries
[05:40] <christopher_> i am back
[05:40] <regeya> what the devil is a 'cup of ubuntu'
[05:40] <mebaran151> ok
[05:40] <christopher_> it gave me this error message
[05:40] <christopher_> The filename "realplay-<IP_ADDRESS>8-linux-2.2-libc6-gcc32-i586.bin" indicates that this file is of type "unknown". The contents of the file indicate that the file is of type "executable". If you open this file, the file might present a security risk to your system.
[05:40] <christopher_> Do not open the file unless you created the file yourself, or received the file from a trusted source. To open the file, rename the file to the correct extension for "executable", then open the file normally. Alternatively, use the Open With menu to choose a specific application for the file.
[05:40] <mebaran151> so how do I configure this sawfish
[05:40] <bascule> snowblink: mplayer -cache 700 -playlist foo.url
[05:40] <b0x> hello all, i'm curious, does ubuntu (warty) come with a kernel source?
[05:40] <Dr_Willis> christopher_,  you run that thing.
[05:40] <hawke> mebaran151: now system -> preferences -> windows should give you the sawfish config
[05:40] <Dr_Willis> sh ./whatever.bin
[05:40] <christopher_> adn this one
[05:40] <christopher_> The filename "realplay-<IP_ADDRESS>8-linux-2.2-libc6-gcc32-i586.bin" indicates that this file is of type "unknown". The contents of the file indicate that the file is of type "executable". If you open this file, the file might present a security risk to your system.
[05:40] <mebaran151> is it only supposed to have like three things
[05:40] <bascule> or in xine, download the liitle 17KB file and open it
[05:41] <bascule> easy christopher_
[05:41] <Dr_Willis> christopher_,  its their own "self installing executable" format.. which is pathic.
[05:41] <mebaran151> it doesnt look very configurable
[05:41] <Dr_Willis> mebaran151,  sawfish is SOO configurable its scary.. its 'scriptable' to the extreame
[05:41] <christopher_> so what do I do about it
[05:41] <mebaran151> Dr_Willis, but how
[05:41] <Dr_Willis> christopher_,  depends.. you could run the thing. :P
[05:41] <hawke> mebaran151: There should be a bunch of things...
[05:41] <zenrox> modprobe -f nvidia worked but gdm still dies out
[05:41] <mebaran151> I go to windows preferences
[05:41] <mebaran151> It says I loaded sawfish
[05:41] <hawke> mebaran151: is the window called "sawfish configurator"
[05:42] <qlo-xael> I can't seem to find the kernel source files in the ubuntu install distribution
[05:42] <qlo-xael> do they not come with?
[05:42] <christopher_> Lets pretend I am a computer novide
[05:42] <mebaran151> hawke
[05:42] <Dr_Willis> mebaran151,  last i used it theres a bunch of config files you CAN alter if you want.. or use its build in config tools.
[05:42] <christopher_> how do I do that
[05:42] <Dr_Willis> as i sayd earlier ------>    sh ./whatever.bin
[05:42] <bascule> chmod +x big_named.bin
[05:42] <bascule> ./big_named.bin
[05:42] <christopher_> ok do i just rename it
[05:42] <Dr_Willis> or what bascule  says :P
[05:42] <hawke> mebaran151: ?
[05:42] <Dr_Willis> You dont need to rename it.
[05:42] <christopher_> or do i have to do something else
[05:43] <christopher_> then what do i have to do
[05:43] <qlo-xael> Does anyone know if ubuntu 4.10 comes with kernel source?
[05:43] <hawke> mebaran151: there may be arrows next to the tabs to scroll left and right
[05:43] <Dr_Willis> sh whatever.bin    -- Or do the chmod +x whatever.bin  then ./whatever.bin
[05:43] <zenrox> qlo-xael: yes it does but you got to install it yourself
[05:43] <jonx_> and then I farted on his head and ran man.. best day of my life
[05:43] <mebaran151> arrows next to waht tabs
[05:43] <christopher_> dude like I said i am a comoputer novice I have no idea what you are saying
[05:44] <Pluk> amazing ati released new drivers so soon
[05:44] <Dr_Willis> christopher_,  FIRE up a shell.. and type the commands.
[05:44] <mebaran151> oh metacity is still there
[05:44] <mebaran151> hmm
[05:44] <christopher_> see I even spelled compueter wrong
[05:44] <qlo-xael> zenrox: how would i go about doing that?
[05:44] <bascule> type that stuff in a shell/terminal/console thingy
[05:44] <bascule> looks like a dos prompt
[05:44] <Dr_Willis> "thingy" :P real technical. :P
[05:44] <christopher_> um how do i start up the command shell
[05:44] <qlo-xael> i'm new with this debian packages thing
[05:44] <Bandit> qlo-xael why would you want to
[05:44] <Dr_Willis> Now is the time when we start pasteing Linux 101 Tutorial URL's :p
[05:45] <christopher_> yes
[05:45] <bascule> well it may be a little trickier and require you to be in the correct drectory
[05:45] <qlo-xael> because i want to compile my own kernel
[05:45] <snowblink> christopher_: did you go to ubuntuguide?
[05:45] <bascule> christopher_: http://linuxcommand.org
[05:45] <Dr_Willis> Which remindes me - looking for a "beginners guide to linux" download/booklet/ect. for a friend at work.
[05:45] <bascule> or there or lots of places
[05:46] <bascule> Dr_Willis: linux cookbook surely
[05:46] <qlo-xael> is kernel compilation not a good idea with ubuntu?
[05:46] <bascule> or were you looking for a more overall view?
[05:46] <Dr_Willis> bascule,   yea.. imagine somehign for a TOTAL Ms-windows Zombie-Lemming :P
[05:46] <Dr_Willis> bascule,  ie: an Idiot. :P
[05:46] <bascule> qlo-xael: *never* compile a distro shipped kernel, get a tarball ffrom kernel mirrors and use those
[05:47] <bascule> trust me recompiling dostro kernels is asking for trouble
[05:47] <hawke> bascule: I disagree...
[05:47] <bascule> Dr_Willis: I dunno if we stoop that low .. :P
[05:47] <bascule> hawke: OK ...
[05:47] <christopher_> ok
[05:47] <qlo-xael> bascule: sounds good
[05:47] <bascule> <-- burned a few times
[05:47] <christopher_> now I am in the terminal
[05:47] <regeya> I disagree about getting stock kernels, at least until linus and andrew get their #$%! heads screwed on straight :-/
[05:47] <snowblink> christopher_: did you go to ubuntuguide?
[05:47] <Doc_Willis> heh 87% done...
[05:47] <christopher_> what code to i use to start it
[05:47] <christopher_> yes
[05:48] <Doc_Willis> start what?
[05:48] <snowblink> christopher_: are you having problems following their step by step guide?
[05:48] <christopher_> yes
[05:48] <qlo-xael> bascule: i have 2.6.10 with an already configured config file on a cdrom, would that be a better idea?
[05:48] <snowblink> christopher_: which step?
[05:48] <bascule> in my opinion, others here seem to think differently ..
[05:48] <qlo-xael> i think that would be easiest
[05:49] <bascule> it is undeniably the safest
[05:49] <christopher_> i can't find how to just start the stupid program
[05:49] <ahmed> sup
[05:49] <zenrox> ok le me go tharu step buy step on how to get my nvidia card worken
[05:49] <Pluk> kernel config can be a bitch though
[05:49] <snowblink> christopher_: http://ubuntuguide.org/#realplayer
[05:49] <bascule> christopher_: the tv looking icon up the top of the screen
[05:49] <qlo-xael> is ubuntu smooth with installing new kernels? in slackware, my manual pages broke
[05:49] <snowblink> christopher_: step 3 explains how to do that
[05:50] <Doc_Willis> of course step 2.5 (not shown) assumes you know how to open up a shell to type commands into.
[05:50] <snowblink> christopher_: If you're wondering how to run realplayer, that's explained in step 5
[05:50] <snowblink> Doc_Willis: covered in step 1
[05:50] <bascule> qlo-xael: why that is connected to a kernel is beyond me, but if you have done them before do it
[05:51] <bascule> snowblink: he os trying to open a terminal
[05:51] <BrianAnthony> is there any _easy_ way to get a working front-end for xine-lib?
[05:51] <snowblink> bascule: it's in the general notes. Step 1
[05:51] <brian> Anyone have nautilus crash often? seems to be happening more and more
[05:51] <BrianAnthony> packaged aswell
[05:51] <qlo-xael> alright thanks
[05:51] <Pluk> BrianAnthony, xine-ui ?
[05:51] <bascule> ah, sorry I thought you were still at #realplayer
[05:52] <BrianAnthony> Pluk: I can't find that package with apt-get
[05:52] <christopher_> there is nothing that looks like a tv on the top of the gnome destop
[05:52] <BrianAnthony> I'm google'ing like crazy
[05:52] <qlo-xael> I have another question, can anyone tell me how to set the resolution/font in the framebuffer console?
[05:52] <Pluk> BrianAnthony, its prolly in universe .. edit /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:53] <Doc_Willis> qlo-xael:  I think the res needs to be set when the kernel boots. or module is loaded for the frame buffer..
[05:53] <Doc_Willis> qlo-xael:  the font can be set with some command..  i forget. :(
[05:53] <christopher_> hey willis
[05:53] <Pluk> fbset
[05:53] <BrianAnthony> pluk I don't even know any ubuntu apt sources though
[05:53] <christopher_> what looks like a "TV"
[05:53] <BrianAnthony> It just automaticaly set the default
[05:53] <Pluk> BrianAnthony, just read that file, you just have to uncomment stuff there
[05:53] <Doc_Willis> christopher_:  theres an icon that looks like tv/shells all over my desktop.
[05:54] <BrianAnthony> Pluk: okay I was just thinking that
[05:54] <BrianAnthony> thanks
[05:54] <Pluk> yw
[05:54] <qlo-xael> i know its something like vga=800x600x256, where do i put this declaration in ubuntu?
[05:54] <bascule> qlo-xael: vga=788 or 791 depends what you want
[05:54] <qlo-xael> bascule i want 800x600x256
[05:54] <bascule> in boot.lst is it, I have no idea on grub
[05:54] <christopher_> are you using gnome?
[05:54] <snowblink> christopher, doc_willis: Step 3 of the general notes: If you see "$", means you have to execute the command in Terminal mode (Applications -> System Tools -> Terminal)
[05:54] <bascule> 788 is what you wnat then
[05:54] <qlo-xael> muchas gracias
[05:55] <bascule> maybe 784, if you google them you will find a whole breakdown
[05:55] <christopher_> ???
[05:55] <christopher_> i see nothing that looks like a tv
[05:55] <bascule> 788 is 16bit I think, slight over kill
[05:55] <jacquesmerde> are there any downsides to activating the universe repository? it seems like a big floodgate to open just to get a few multimedia codecs...
[05:55] <jesuel> hrm, well im gonna do it, t-minus 2 hours till i install hoary64 on my poor laptop
[05:55] <timothy> sometimes when I change desktop backgrounds (especially when changing from "center" to "fill screen" , etc), I get a couple error messages: "I've detected a panel already running, and will now exit" and then "The application 'gnome-panel' has quit unexpectedly. You can inform the developers...etc" has this ever happened to anyone else?
[05:55] <fsc> anybody know what "no damage extension" when i run xcompmgr means?
[05:55] <zenrox> ok now how do i get this nvidia card to work
[05:55] <snowblink> christopher_: Click Applications. Then click System Tools. Then click Terminal
[05:55] <timothy> it restarts fine and everything, it's just strange
[05:56] <christopher_> ok
[05:56] <christopher_> did that
[05:56] <bascule> christopher_: you have this lookin thing christopher@localhost:/home $
[05:56] <christopher_> yes
[05:56] <snowblink> christopher_: have you installed realplayer yet?
[05:56] <bascule> follow the steps on the guide, I thiught that was where you were stuck
[05:56] <christopher_> yes
[05:56] <Dr_Willis> how 'zenlike'
[05:56] <christopher_> i installed it
[05:56] <snowblink> snowblink: so follow step 5
[05:56] <Dr_Willis> :)
[05:56] <christopher_> step 5?
[05:57] <jacquesmerde> are there any downsides to activating the universe repository? it seems like a big floodgate to open just to get a few multimedia codecs...
[05:57] <snowblink> christopher_: I have asked you about a dozen times if you followed ubuntuguide and you said yes
[05:57] <Dreamer3> can you assign a shortcut key to a launcher in gnome?
[05:57] <christopher_> give me that URL again
[05:57] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: hmm.. what are you doing in here?
[05:57] <Dr_Willis> http://www.ubuntuguide.org/
[05:57] <christopher_> i fullowed the linuxcommand one
[05:57] <Dreamer3> n/m, i guess i already did :)
[05:57] <Dr_Willis> GammaRay,  where else am i?
[05:58] <snowblink> christopher_: http://ubuntuguide.org/#realplayer
[05:58] <dc17> Does anyone know of .torrent files for hoary array-5?
[05:58] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: are you thye same Dr_Willis who was in #mandrake for a long time and then when to the dark "source nbased
[05:58] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: are you thye same Dr_Willis who was in #mandrake for a long time and then when to the dark "source based" world :-P
[05:58] <bascule>  cd browse_to_your_download_folder <-- unclear I guess
[05:58] <Dr_Willis> GammaRay,  I am all over the place. :P
[05:58] <Bandit> nope not the torrent i just installed the iso of array 5 tho
[05:59] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: that was a question btw
[05:59] <Dr_Willis> GammaRay,  heh  - putting Ubuntu on my imac at the moment. :P then i got to get my AMD64 setup
[05:59] <christopher_> it's like reading greek
[05:59] <Dr_Willis> GammaRay,  Mandrake had 'issues' with amd64 -  SUSE was much better.. so ive been useing it mainly lately.
[05:59] <snowblink> christopher_: I ask again. Which step are you having problems with?
[05:59] <bascule>  cd browse_to_your_download_folder <-- at a guess
[06:00] <christopher_> i got this
[06:00] <christopher_>  cd browse_to_your_download_folder
[06:00] <christopher_> $ chmod +x realplay-<IP_ADDRESS>8-linux-2.2-libc6-gcc32-i586.bin
[06:00] <christopher_> $ sudo ./realplay-<IP_ADDRESS>8-linux-2.2-libc6-gcc32-i586.bin
[06:00] <christopher_> Enter the complete path to the directory where you want
[06:00] <christopher_> RealPlayer to be installed.  You must specify the full
[06:00] <christopher_> pathname of the directory and have write privileges to
[06:00] <christopher_> the chosen directory.
[06:00] <christopher_> Directory:  [/home/chua/RealPlayer] : /opt/RealPlayer
[06:00] <christopher_> You have selected the following RealPlayer configuration:
[06:00] <christopher_> Destination:            /opt/RealPlayer
[06:00] <christopher_> Enter [F] inish to begin copying files, or [P] revious to go
[06:00] <christopher_> back to the previous prompts: [F] : F
[06:00] <christopher_> Copying RealPlayer files...configure system-wide symbolic links? [Y/n] : Y
[06:00] <christopher_> enter the prefix for symbolic links [/usr] : /usr
[06:01] <christopher_> i have absolutely no idea what they are talking about
[06:01] <snowblink> christopher_: step 3 then?
[06:01] <snowblink> christopher_: did you read step 1 general notes?
[06:01] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: I installed ubuntu for a family member. I like it but I still perfer mandrake I think.
[06:01] <dc17> Bandit: do you know of a changelist for array-4 to array-5?  I'm hoping for better acpi support and faster wifi.
[06:01] <snowblink> christopher_: pay particular attention to the 3rd line in general notes
[06:01] <GammaRay> Dr_Willis: I just could not wait for mandrake to go to gnome 2.8. which seemed to take forever.
[06:02] <crimsun> dc17: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2005-February/022856.html
[06:02] <Doc_Willis> GammaRay:  lol. Gnome is not an issue for me. - i tend to install windowmaker right off.
[06:02] <christopher_> is there any way you guys could just tell me shat to type in
[06:02] <Doc_Willis> then again being the latest and greatest/versions of stuff.. is sort of the reason  i Liked Gentoo.