[13:30] <airurando> afternoon
[13:31] <airurando> czajkowski: I don't think so.  Do you know Barry or is he new to the group?
[13:31] <airurando> I'll get to it this weekend.
[13:31] <czajkowski> not sure tbh
[13:32] <airurando> plan to do a 2012Irish loco year in review blogpost
[13:32] <airurando> will reply to the e-mail then both on and off list.
[13:32] <czajkowski> airurando: if you want I can add it to mine afterwards
[13:32] <czajkowski> airurando: here's a plan for you for 2013
[13:32] <czajkowski> for for Ubuntu membership :)
[13:33] <airurando> :-)
[13:49] <tdr112> hello airurando
[13:49] <tdr112> hey czajkowski how was the trip home
[13:50] <czajkowski> good thanks
[13:50] <czajkowski> flew past
[13:50] <czajkowski> was back here for new years
[13:50] <czajkowski> tdr112: how was the conf you went to ?
[13:52] <tdr112> great, loads of people at it,  the more you go to these sorts of things the more it feels likes a reunion
[13:52] <tdr112> just wholes of people you get to know year on year
[13:52] <czajkowski> nods
[13:52] <czajkowski> so true
[13:52] <czajkowski> it's how I feel about fosdem
[13:52] <czajkowski> you were a 3c29 ?
[13:54] <tdr112> 29c3 :)
[13:54] <czajkowski> ah there we go
[13:54] <tdr112> lots of UK people at it this year
[13:54] <czajkowski> tdr112: wasn't there some issues there
[13:55] <tdr112> hmm, not that I know
[13:56] <czajkowski> http://asherwolf.net/dear-hacker-community-we-need-to-talk/101/
[13:57] <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/methadonna/statuses/284281997071900672
[13:57] <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/search?q=creeper%2029c3%20OR%20femnazi&src=typd
[13:57] <czajkowski> on the upside http://adainitiative.org/2012/12/chaos-communications-congress-29-becomes-third-hacker-conference-to-ban-harassment/
[14:26] <airurando> hi tdr112
[14:26] <czajkowski> everyone seen http://www.ubuntu.com/
[14:27] <airurando> czajkowski: very curious, heard rumours of an announcement
[14:28] <czajkowski> yup in 3 hrs and 31 mins :)
[14:28] <airurando> at 5pm right?
[14:29] <airurando> will it be on ubuntu.com
[14:29] <czajkowski> 6
[14:29] <airurando> he he
[14:29] <czajkowski> tis 2:30 now
[14:29] <airurando> 6 it id
[14:29] <airurando> *is
[14:35] <tdr112> czajkowski: i saw some of the cards on a few desks alright on day 1, I did not see that image on the wall


[03:26] <Fudge> hi all
[11:00] <nikolam> hi. I think launchpad javascript is somewhat not working right (13.10 64bit, Seamonkey)
[11:01] <nikolam> it uses much of CPU time, when (slowly) scrolling page
[11:02] <nikolam> or it is something locally, hmm
[16:17] <ktosiek> Hi! How can I upload a package to a PPA?
[16:17] <ktosiek> I'm trying to use "dput ppa:tomasz-kontusz/nix ../nix_1.7_source.changes" but I can't see anything happening after the upload (no build info etc.)
[16:18] <ktosiek> (no errors, either)
[17:36] <soren> ktosiek: If Launchpad can't identify that you the one who uploaded it, it won't e-mail you.
[17:36] <soren> ktosiek: So if the key you used to sign the package isn't registered to your account, you probably won't get any errors back.
[17:37] <soren> ktosiek: (or if you didn't sign it at all)
[17:37] <ktosiek> so, anyone can upload a package if it's signed by a registered key?
[17:37] <ktosiek> it refuses to receive unsigned packages AFAIK
[17:38] <soren> ktosiek: Ah, yes, unsigned packages might get rejected straight away. I forgot about that.
[17:38] <soren> ktosiek: But yes, anyone can upload as long as its signed by a valid key.
[17:38] <soren> ktosiek: Valid, registered key.
[17:48] <cjwatson> Unsigned uploads are discarded without any notification to anyone to avoid this being used to mailbomb people, yes.
[17:52] <soren> cjwatson: Don't you get an error back from the ftp server for unsigned uploads?
[17:53] <soren> Nope. Just checked.
[17:54] <soren> dput will (by default) refuse to upload them, though.
[17:55] <cjwatson> Indeed, you don't because otherwise you could arrange to mailbomb anyone.
[19:50] <ktosiek> how can I get the most launchpad-like build environment? I just got a failing build because of -Werror >_>
[19:52] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimpleSbuild is pretty close.
[19:55] <ktosiek> is it using the same CXXFLAGS etc.?
[20:09] <cjwatson> ktosiek: that's largely up to your package's debian/rules
[20:10] <cjwatson> but all that sort of thing should indeed match
[20:10] <ktosiek> hmm, ok. Can I access the images launchpad uses for build machines?
[20:11] <cjwatson> yes, the sbuild-launchpad-chroot package (new in trusty) automates that
[20:12] <cjwatson> failing that you can get the URLs from the API, or (not really meant for browsing, so ugly) https://api.launchpad.net/devel/ubuntu/trusty/amd64 etc.
[20:12] <cjwatson> however, I don't bother most of the time, the chroots mk-sbuild constructs are generally perfectly adequate
[20:13] <ktosiek> oh yes, sbuild-launchpad-chroot is what I needed
[20:14] <ktosiek> is it packaged for saucy somewhere?
[20:14] <cjwatson> no idea
[20:14] <cjwatson> honestly, you should just use mk-sbuild
[20:14] <cjwatson> for the sort of problem you're describing it will be entirely sufficient
[20:14] <cjwatson> mk-sbuild as described on the SimpleSbuild wiki page, that is
[20:16] <cjwatson> it's a longish page but it's almost all setup, once it's in place it's single-command stuff


[07:21] <airurando> Welcome to Ubuntu Ireland! || http://www.ubuntu-ie.org/ || https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrishTeam  || This channel is logged - logs at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ || Next IRC Meeting: 21st of September 2011 @ 8pm  || Stay tuned for details of the next Ubuntu Hour!
[09:33] <czajkowski> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/07/05/free-official-ubuntu-book-for-approved-loco-teams/
[09:33] <czajkowski> for offical loco teams
[11:12] <tdr112> is it a new book ?
[11:13] <tdr112> feck the deadline is passed
[11:14] <tdr112> did he post it to the logo teams mailing list
[11:15] <czajkowski> dont think so
[11:15] <czajkowski> on the planet he posted it
[11:15] <czajkowski> you could still try and submit
[11:16] <czajkowski> if you wanted it
[11:16] <czajkowski> and maybe use it as a raffle/prize for a quiz when it comes to the release party ?
[11:20] <tdr112> i will ask if our fearless leader is free
[11:20] <tdr112> ebel: if you have a bit of time
[11:21] <tdr112> czajkowski: you never said how ogg camp went
[11:21]  * ebel is a point of contact, not a leader :P
[11:21]  * ebel can look into it
[11:21] <tdr112> i know it was just too much to type
[11:22] <czajkowski> tdr112: pretty good
[11:23] <czajkowski> ebel: well team contact is the same as a point of contact, and you're the only one who calls himself a point of contact in Ubuntu :)
[11:23] <czajkowski> it's also the field that all teams need to fill :) and the one we look at for gifts
[11:23] <czajkowski> tdr112: it was recorded so once it's uploaded I'll post a link to it on the list
[11:23] <ebel> Oh, I thought the offical term was "point of contact". Grand so.
[11:23] <czajkowski> nope
[11:24] <czajkowski> Team Contact
[11:24] <czajkowski> and Team leader
[11:24]  * ebel adds another title to his name.
[11:27] <ebel> aaaaanyways
[11:30] <tdr112> ebel: your name will be too long soon
[11:32] <ebel> applies
[11:32] <ebel> *applied
[18:58] <airurando> evening folks
[20:38] <czajkowski> aloha
[20:54] <ebel> yo
[22:23] <airurando> good night ubuntu-ie


[12:36] <menoz> hi all! Can you tell me how can I make a mirror of an Ubuntu repository?
[12:37] <menoz> Should I use rsync?
[12:42] <zyga_> menoz: please check the wiki/official website first
[12:45] <menoz> I've found this: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/mirror
[12:45] <menoz> thanks!
[12:54] <tseng> argh Keybuk is gone
[12:54] <tseng> udevplug hangs for a long time (and fails?) because /dev/.udev/queue already exists
[12:54] <tseng> on my desktop
[01:09] <zyga_> what is the easiest way to know about the version of some package in debian?
[01:09] <zyga_> (with package.debian.org being down)
[01:09] <Nafallo> I keep a deb-src for debians archive and use apt-cache madison :-)
[01:10] <zyga_> Nafallo: I don't really even know the proper apt.sources line for debian
[01:11] <zyga_> sources.list... I'm getting sleepy
[01:11] <Nafallo> # debian sid
[01:11] <Nafallo> deb-src http://ftp.se.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
[01:12] <zyga_> Nafallo: what is the most experimental/fresh debian version?
[01:12] <zyga_> sid and always sid?
[01:12] <Nafallo> sid is always unstable, yes :-)
[01:14] <HrdwrBoB> no
[01:14] <zyga_> Nafallo: hmm, I want to look at gazpacho, how do I do it now?
[01:14] <Nafallo> no?
[01:14] <zyga_> apt-cache source doesn't show me anything new
[01:15] <zyga_> (I did update)
[01:15] <Nafallo> apt-cache madison gazpacho
[01:15] <zyga_> ah
[01:15] <zyga_> darn I did an obsolete job again :)
[01:15] <dholbach> good night
[01:15] <zyga_> night dholbach
[01:15] <desrt> ciao, chicky
[01:16] <Nafallo> gnight dholbach :-)
[01:16] <zyga_> Nafallo: is there any way to tell apt-get source which repo to use?
[01:16] <desrt> zyga_; /
[01:16] <Nafallo> zyga_: dunno. I usally want to grab the latest :-)
[01:16] <zyga_> Nafallo: nv, I have the right version
[01:17] <zyga_> eh :-)
[01:17] <zyga_> diff of the diff only shows different date and signature
[01:19] <zyga_> good night guys :-)
[01:19] <Nafallo> night zyga_
[02:31] <hub> hi
[02:31] <hub> my system is totally hosed because of udev failure
[02:31] <hub> I don;t know if it is udev or what
[02:31] <hub> but udev fails
[02:31] <hub> dapper current
[02:32] <Burgwork> hub, welcome to dapper
[02:32] <hub> Burgwork: laptop works fine
[02:32] <jsgotangco> lol
[02:32] <hub> but desktop is fscked
[02:32] <hub> shall I just pop in Flight 2?
[02:34] <hub> so has anybody a clue?
[02:37] <robertj> What Flight is UbuntuExpress slated for?
[02:38] <Burgwork> robertj, likely the next one
[02:38] <robertj> Burgwork: wowzers
[02:39] <Burgwork> robertj, when that is in anyones guess, likely after the dev spring
[02:39] <Burgwork> t
[02:44] <hub> ok, I install SuSE this time
[02:44] <hub> since I'm at reinstalling
[02:44] <hub> :-/
[02:46] <jsgotangco> SuSE is nice :/
[02:46] <bddebian> gack
[02:46] <hub> at least I have CD
[02:47] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, what does suse do that Ubuntu doesn't?
[02:47] <hub> my machine is fscked and udev is just driving me insane
[02:48] <hub> udev is more opaque than the Microsoft plug and pray
[02:48] <Burgwork> hub, do you even have a xandros mahcine at home?
[02:48] <hub> Burgwork: I don't
[02:48] <hub> I have a box of v3
[02:48] <hub> but otherwise I don't
[02:48] <hub> have it installed
[02:48] <Burgwork> well, I guess I don't have any of Userfuls stuff at home
[02:49] <hub> Burgwork: I still have a server software from the one I used to work for
[02:49] <jsgotangco> Burgwork: WPA works out of the box
[02:49] <hub> but I scrap the box as .deb based server soon
[02:49] <jsgotangco> Burgwork: i admit though, i haven't really tried in-depth with ubuntu
[02:49] <hub> Burgwork: sonething I'm sure is that the installer is super slow on SuSE
[02:49] <hub> jsgotangco: I couldn't get it to work
[02:50] <hub> jsgotangco: because I use Network Manager
[02:50] <jsgotangco> NM didn't work for me in suse too
[02:51] <Burgwork> hub, what do they use?
[02:51] <hub> Burgwork: don
[02:51] <hub> t know
[02:52] <hub> the installer is so slow
[03:36] <bddebian> Why would dpatch attempt to apply in ./ ?
[05:57] <Tm_T> somethings changed in network handling during boot, now I have to do ifdown&ifup to get net working, and even that returns some errors
[05:58] <Tm_T> hmm, or maybe it has something to do with kernel, have to check that too
[05:59] <crimsun> Tm_T: you don't happen to read dapper-changes, do you?
[06:02] <Tm_T> nope
[06:02] <Tm_T> where's that?
[06:03] <Tm_T> crimsun: and thanks for pointing out, I knew I'm missing something ;)
[06:03] <crimsun> Tm_T: follow the link from lists.ubuntu.com :)
[06:04] <Tm_T> aah, ML, thank you sir
[06:04] <Tm_T> 3h sleep last night and it's still early morning, so I'm not in my sharpest knife
[06:06] <Tm_T> crimsun: I'
[06:07] <Tm_T> m also crawling through KDE 3.5.1 trying to find changes and problems ;)
[08:31] <ejofee> does the default (k)ubuntu install *also* include xterm? i want to create a .desktop script which works on both ubuntu and kubuntu.
[08:34] <Kamion> ejofee: yes, it does
[08:34] <ejofee> Kamion: thanks
[08:36] <ejofee> i suggest we used a general xvt symlink which is scripted to stand for *any* [x]  [v] irtual [t] erminal at all that if finds on the computer. and we could do the same with the text editor. this way we won't say "use gedit <path> or kwrite <path>" to the noobs.
[08:37] <ejofee> s/if/it/
[08:37] <ejofee> (in a particular priority)
[08:38] <pitti> Good morning
[08:39] <Burgundavia> salut pitti, did that hal issue regarding running has unpriviledged and upstream not being happy get resolved?
[08:43] <pitti> Burgundavia: mostly, yes
[08:44] <pitti> Burgundavia: upstream and ubuntu now use the same architecture (privilege separation), just in Ubuntu the callouts have minimized privileges
[08:44] <Burgundavia> pitti, ok, cause I was going to punch big holes in the "if I am at a machine with a usb stick, I can own it other ways"
[08:44] <pitti> Burgundavia: that also means that power management and so on now work with our hal
[08:44] <Burgundavia> that is good
[08:45] <pitti> Burgundavia: heh, I also wrote counter arguments to this to 'the big' thread
[08:45] <pitti> Burgundavia: like ltsp, digital photo vending machines, etc.
[08:46] <Burgundavia> pitti, public access terminals, like 100% of Userful's computers
[08:46] <Burgundavia> pitti, we allow usb access
[08:46] <pitti> exactly
[08:46] <pitti> Burgundavia: davidz agreed that this was a problem, so he happily accepted sjoerd's patch for priv separation
[08:47] <AlinuxOS> pitti, Guten Morgen :)
[08:47] <Kamion> ejofee: we call it /usr/bin/x-terminal-emulator
[08:47] <Burgundavia> pitti, do other distros really run hal as root?
[08:47] <Kamion> ejofee: and /usr/bin/editor
[08:49] <ejofee> Kamion: wow, didn't know that! so why doesn't people use "editor" instead of "gedit" in their howtos? many kubuntu users complain to me that some howtos don't work on their kubuntu ("command not found" or so)... just because of this :)
[08:50] <Kamion> ejofee: because they don't know about it either, I guess
[08:50] <ejofee> s/doesn/don/
[08:50] <ejofee> Kamion: right
[08:50] <Burgundavia> ejofee, the official docs simply say "edit the following doc"
[08:50] <ejofee> Burgundavia: well, some prefer to be as concise as possible
[08:51] <ejofee> Burgundavia: (including me)
[08:51] <Kamion> ejofee: (btw, you use update-alternatives to manage those symlinks I mentioned)
[08:52] <ejofee> Kamion: didn't know that. does it also work automatically? (something like "update-alternatives --auto")
[08:52] <Kamion> yes
[08:52] <ejofee> Burgundavia: (in their howtos, that is)
[08:52] <Kamion> packages' maintainer scripts do that for you though, you don't need to do it by hand
[08:52] <ejofee> Kamion: thanks
[08:53] <Burgundavia> Kamion, I was parsing through the seeds today I noticed we still include dselect in the standard seed. Is this really neccessary anymore?
[08:54] <Kamion> Burgundavia: it is for me
[08:54] <pitti> Hi AlinuxOS
[08:54] <ejofee> Kamion: boy... how i hate it that distros have so many differences between them... these differences are mostly unimportant with respect to their real benefits and so important with respect to creating confusion... which is a very frustrating irony.
[08:54] <pitti> Burgundavia: yes, FC does
[08:55] <pitti> Burgundavia: debian, ubuntu, and gentoo didn't
[08:55] <Burgundavia> pitti, and userfuls product is based on FC. Our lead dev is not sane
[08:55] <pitti> Burgundavia: no idea about SuSE, but since Kay works for Novell, and he's heavily on the 'root? so what?' side, I expect that SuSE runs hal as root, too
[08:55] <Kamion> and it's only a 100KB-odd .deb, so please leave it be for us dinosaurs :)
[08:56] <Burgundavia> Kamion, far be it from me to take away play toys from the developers. You provide us non-technical people with enough shiny toys, like espresso
[08:56] <Kamion> ejofee: I believe Red Hat has a rewritten version of update-alternatives nowadays too *shrug*
[08:57] <Kamion> though it might be called just alternatives, not sure
[08:57] <pitti> Burgundavia: I was grown up with dselect, and for the occasional 'clean up my packages' rave dselect is still a nice tool :)
[08:57] <Kamion> speaking of which, why the *hell* does espresso not want to quite finish partitioning ... grumble
[08:58] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I know only apt-get :)
[08:58] <Kamion> oh, heh, might have something to do with the sys.exit(0) I put in there for debugging
[08:59] <pitti> AlinuxOS: you should at least know apt-cache search (IMHO still the fastest tool to find stuff)
[08:59] <AlinuxOS> pitti, yes
[09:00] <AlinuxOS> I've learned basic commands...and I like apt-get very much.
[09:01] <AlinuxOS> I heard something about aptitute
[09:04] <Burgundavia> Kamion, we also need to make a decision on reportbugs for dapper. I get about an email a day to the spam catcher of -users that comes from that
[09:04] <Kamion> Burgundavia: see the bug about it, I guess, there's been recent activity
[09:04] <Kamion> pitti: is there any good way to tell g-v-m not to pop up a window when a *particular* filesystem is mounted?
[09:04] <Burgundavia> Kamion, was unaware there was one, thanks for hte info
[09:05] <Kamion> pitti: it's very annoying when the live installer has just mounted /target and a window pops up ...
[09:06] <pitti> Kamion: not right now
[09:06] <pitti> Kamion: but it might make sense to teach it to only react to stuff in /media?
[09:07] <Kamion> hmm, yeah, maybe
[09:07] <pitti> Keeeeeeybuk?
[09:07] <Kamion> failing that, if I could have /target and everything under it blacklisted, that would be nice
[09:08] <pitti> Kamion: hm, I think I'll just do the above
[09:08] <Kamion> ok
[09:09] <Kamion> woo, I would just like to say that I have espresso handling almost all its partitioning through partman now
[09:09] <pitti> great! I can't wait to test espresso
[09:09] <Kamion> the first version is gonna suck UI-wise, mind
[09:10] <Kamion> quite apart from poor UI design in general, there are far too many places where the gtk main loop is blocked so the UI is unresponsive
[09:10] <Kamion> hopefully I'll clear that up soon
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> espresso ? :) caff espresso mmmm....
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> :)
[09:12] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: exactly
[09:12] <pitti> AlinuxOS: the new way of installing ubuntu from a live CD, which will rock da house :)
[09:12] <AlinuxOS> pitti, I've seen something similar on Mepis
[09:13] <AlinuxOS> is it the same?
[09:13] <Kamion> no
[09:13] <AlinuxOS> ah
[09:13] <AlinuxOS> so there will be no more Install + Live CD
[09:13] <Kamion> live installers aren't news ... the trick is doing one that's maintainable in conjunction with a traditional installer
[09:13] <Kamion> AlinuxOS: incorrect, we'll still have the install CD available for download
[09:13] <AlinuxOS> but there will be Live Ubuntu/Installer + Live Kubuntu/Installer ?
[09:13] <Kamion> the live installer won't be as featureful as the traditional installer, at least to start with
[09:14] <Kamion> hopefully, though no work has been done on a KDE frontend for espresso yet
[09:14] <AlinuxOS> ah
[09:15] <AlinuxOS> Kamion, very very interestning :)
[09:16] <AlinuxOS> I've downloaded dapper....
[09:24] <ejofee> Kamion: "editor" links to mc's editor. this is surely not nice for the average user
[09:26] <Kamion> ejofee: mc isn't in the default install
[09:26] <Kamion> ejofee: nor, for that matter, in main
[09:26] <ejofee> Kamion: then is it because i just installed mc?
[09:27] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: it doesn't?
[09:27] <Treenaks> Burgundavia: not even in attachments?
[09:27] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, no, I am talking about trying to report against a binary in a package
[09:27] <Kamion> ejofee: yes, mc registers a higher priority for its editor than the default (nano) does
[09:27] <Kamion> ejofee: the idea is that if you install something odd then you probably want to use it
[09:27] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, ie, it doesn't do the smart thing and give you correct source package
[09:28] <ejofee> Kamion: right, but most users would prefer gedit or kwrite! they should be higher priority (for under x11)?
[09:28] <Kamion> Burgundavia: bradb's landed a patch for that, it should be in production soon
[09:28] <ejofee> s/\?/\./
[09:28] <Burgundavia> Kamion, sweet
[09:28] <Kamion> ejofee: most users won't install mc in the first place; those users that do probably want it
[09:29] <ejofee> Kamion: whatever
[09:29] <Kamion> hmm, gedit apparently only registers itself as gnome-text-editor, not editor
[09:29] <ejofee> Kamion: any idea why mc-mp is not also included in the universe?
[09:29] <Kamion> that's awkward, I wonder if it's deliberate
[09:30] <ejofee> Kamion: it's not only awkward, but also stupid... we have to write separate howto examples for kde / gnome users
[09:31] <ejofee> Kamion: it should be x-text-editor
[09:31] <Kamion> and kate doesn't register anything
[09:31] <ejofee> Kamion: after the model x-terminal-emulator
[09:31] <Kamion> there appears to be no standard for this; it should probably be discussed on debian-policy@
[09:31] <Kamion> with the relevant maintainers
[09:32] <ejofee> Kamion: i guess this is some sort of equivalent to bureaucracy
[09:32] <ejofee> Kamion: hard to move things
[09:32] <Kamion> ejofee: sorry, no idea about mc-mp
[09:32] <Kamion> ejofee: if you just want to throw insults, please don't
[09:32] <Kamion> I'm trying to help you
[09:32] <ejofee> Kamion: http://mc.linuxinside.com/cgi-bin/dir.cgi
[09:32] <ejofee> Kamion: and i really appreciate it.
[09:33] <Kamion> ejofee: oh, I guess just nobody's packaged it then
[09:33] <Kamion> you could ask ubuntu-motu@ if anyone wants to do it
[09:33] <Kamion> it's not bureaucracy anyway, it's aiming for good design rather than random choices
[09:33] <Kamion> which yes sometimes does involve actually talking to the maintainers of the affected packages
[09:33] <Kamion> often considered useful :)
[09:33] <ejofee> Kamion: given the much smaller size, it could replace nano and add a file browser for the rescuing use cases.
[09:34] <tepsipakki> is mc-cp maintained anymore.. latest release is from 30-Aug-2004
[09:34] <Kamion> nano's good as the default because it's also available in the installer
[09:34] <tepsipakki> mc-mp that is
[09:34] <Kamion> and mc is about ten times the size of nano. Is mc-mp that much smaller?
[09:35] <ejofee> Kamion: yeah... i can understand that, too. sort of the other side of the coin. i am dreaming of a system which allows for both sides of the coin to be visible simulatenously. :P
[09:35] <ejofee> tepsipakki: but it seems it's more stable than the maintained mc
[09:37] <ejofee> s/simulatenously/simultaneously/
[09:38] <ejofee> Kamion: that's what i implied: why not including mc-mp (which is actually mc-light, that is, much smaller than mc) for doing both file management and editing?
[09:39] <ejofee> Kamion: ... in the installer, i meant
[09:39] <Mithrandir> ejofee: what's the size of a compiled mc-mp, then?
[09:39] <ejofee> "<Kamion> nano's good as the default because it's also available in the installer"
[09:39] <ejofee> Mithrandir: i don't know the installed size, but the package size is 1,2 mb
[09:40] <ejofee> Mithrandir: however, an alternative option is lfm
[09:40] <ejofee> Mithrandir: which resembles mc, but it's way much smaller (and doesn't include its own editor, so we should keep nano)
[09:41] <ejofee> Mithrandir: an installed lfm is 410 kb.
[09:42] <Mithrandir> ejofee: nano-udeb is 26k.
[09:42] <ejofee> Mithrandir: i am talking about a file manager
[09:42] <Mithrandir> (45k uncompressed)
[09:42] <ejofee> Mithrandir: lfm is a file manager
[09:42] <HrdwrBoB> it's also 10x the size
[09:43] <ejofee> Mithrandir: btw, does the installer include python?
[09:43] <Mithrandir> no
[09:43] <Kamion> ejofee: no, it doesn't
[09:43] <Mithrandir> I'm not sure we need a file manager in the installer.
[09:43] <Kamion> ejofee: and what Mithrandir said about the installer. No way are we adding that much to the base initrd.
[09:43] <ejofee> Kamion: so i guess mc has no chance to be included to the installer, right?
[09:44] <Kamion> ejofee: nope, sorry
[09:44] <ejofee> Kamion: it's understandable
[09:44] <Mithrandir> not unless it goes on a serious diet. :-)
[09:44] <ejofee> Mithrandir: i could call mc-mp quite some diet
[09:45] <Kamion> I see no compelling reason to put a file manager in the installer, so I see no reason why we'd go to that effort
[09:45] <Kamion> if you can't handle the shell for rescue work, you can always use the live CD
[09:46] <ejofee> Kamion: i was thinking of x11 failing back to console
[09:46] <ejofee> Kamion: for those instances, a mc would be cool
[09:46] <ejofee> Kamion: so i think it should be included on the cd
[09:46] <ejofee> Kamion: ... at least
[09:46] <Mithrandir> ejofee: X doesn't "fall back" to the console.
[09:46] <ejofee> Mithrandir: but...?
[09:46] <Kamion> Mithrandir: he means if X fails to start
[09:47] <ejofee> Kamion / Mithrandir: right
[09:47] <Mithrandir> Kamion: then we should fix it to fall back to VESA or something.
[09:47] <ejofee> most users from my generation are used to failing back to dos / nc (norton commander)
[09:47] <Mithrandir> if VESA doesn't work, then you lose and get to keep all the pieces.
[09:47] <Kamion> mc's interface is fine for those who are used to it, but it's very quirky
[09:47] <Mithrandir> ejofee: do you have any statistics to back that up?
[09:47] <Kamion> and the lack of maintenance makes it a concerning prospect for main
[09:48] <ejofee> Mithrandir: no, sorry. used the wrong word.
[09:48] <ejofee> s/most/many/
[09:49] <ejofee> Mithrandir: it really wasn't in my intention to say "most".
[09:49] <Mithrandir> I'd argue "a few" or "some", but I don't have any numbers to back it up.
[09:50] <ejofee> Kamion: there's no more "newbye friendly" alternative to mc anyway, afaik (or please name one). even bios is designed like that. it's the best friendliness we can provide them in the console.
[09:51] <Mithrandir> newbies are lost in the console anyway and it's way better to just learn to use a shell and some simple commands like ls, cd and less.
[09:52] <ejofee> Kamion: i mean... at least it deserves to be on the (dapper) live / install cd...
[09:53] <ejofee> Kamion: knoppix also includes it (not that it means anything imperative to us)
[09:54] <Burgundavia> ejofee, I thought I convinced you yesterday that mc in the default install is not actually helping anybody
[09:54] <ejofee> Burgundavia: i began to write the wiki. so you convinced me.
[09:54] <ejofee> :)
[10:02] <ajmitch> mvo: I had eth0 & eth1 swap round on one boot :)
[10:02] <ajmitch> however it didn't repeat
[10:04] <mvo> ajmitch: yeah, something like this seems to have happend
[10:06] <Treenaks> Argh! I rebooted and my (built-in) USB card-readers became sda/sdb/sdc/sdd, and my SATA-disk became sde -- which BROKE booting quite badly
[10:07] <ajmitch> seems that there might be a little issue with module load order or similar
[10:08] <tobias___> Treenaks: Why don't you use the labels/disk ids in /etc/fstab?
[10:08] <Treenaks> tobias___: Because the breezy install doesn't do that
[10:08] <Treenaks> tobias___: by default
[10:08] <tobias___> Treenaks: True.
[10:08] <Treenaks> tobias___: also, grub likes to know where its files live
[10:08] <tobias___> Treenaks: I had assumed you to be on dapper already.
[10:08] <Treenaks> (root= kernel command line)
[10:09] <Treenaks> tobias___: I _am_ on dapper now
[10:09] <Treenaks> tobias___: but upgrading doesn't magically alter fstab
[10:09] <tobias___> Treenaks: Yes, you are right of course.
[10:10] <tobias___> Treenaks: But root= can use a label too IIRC. At least it can on redhat.
[10:10] <Treenaks> tobias___: haven't tried yet, but moving disks around is still broken :)
[10:23] <tepsipakki> mvo: do you have a newer version of update-manager somewhere? 0.42.2ubuntu1~bp2 just crashes for me
[10:25] <mvo> tepsipakki: can you start it in a terminal and put the backtrace of the crash to paste.ubuntulinux.nl please?
[10:25] <mvo> tepsipakki: dapper-backports is now available btw (answering to your mail from a couple of days back)
[10:26] <Treenaks> mvo: should the pointer to the update-manager icon be ON the icon (it points to the middle of the red circle icon)
[10:26] <Treenaks> ?
[10:27] <mvo> Treenaks: yeah, I noticed that too. the notificaiton-daemon seems to have changed it's semantics. I think I can/could work around it if it is too annoying
[10:28] <tepsipakki> mvo: does it have some debug-flags?
[10:28] <seb128> mvo: what is the topic?
[10:28] <mvo> seb128: notification-daemon put it's arrow in the middle of the attached widget now
[10:28] <seb128> ah
[10:28] <mvo> tepsipakki: I think I should enable showing the backtrace in the gui, yes
[10:31] <tepsipakki> wtf.. somehow apt thinks that all of my packages are obsolete
[10:31] <hunger> Networking is broken *again*.
[10:31] <hunger> This time /var/run/network is missing with /var/run actually having been created.
[10:31] <mdke> hunger, sounds like a bug
[10:31] <hunger> No more dhcp either:-(
[10:34] <hunger> The wonders of shell programming I guess;-)
[10:36] <tepsipakki> mvo: I see that update-manager comments out the breezy-repos from sources.list? short after that it quits
[10:36] <tonyyarusso> When Dapper is released, will it be as stable on that day as, say, a week later?  WIll everything actually be taken care of before release, or are there likely to still be a few bugs to work out in the first few days?
[10:36] <mvo> tepsipakki: do you have a backtrace for me :)
[10:37] <tepsipakki> mvo: oh you mean from strace?
[10:37] <mvo> tepsipakki: just what it outputs in a terminal, when it dies. you will have to run it manually inside a gnome-terminal for that ("sudo update-manager")
[10:38] <Kamion> tonyyarusso: obviously we hope the former
[10:38] <tepsipakki> mvo: there's hardly anything useful, but wait a sec
[10:38] <Kamion> that's why we have freezes etc.
[10:38] <tonyyarusso> Kamion, Right.  What's the experience been in the first week of the previous releases?
[10:39] <Kamion> tonyyarusso: generally pretty good, the showstoppers usually turn up about six hours before release in my experience ;-)
[10:39] <Kamion> causing enormous "fun" for the release team, but hey
[10:39] <tonyyarusso> Kamion, Well, I suppose "fun" makes life interesting.  Thanks.
[10:40] <Kamion> we're being moderately conservative about dapper because it's to be a long-term-supported release, and pushing the release out an extra week to give ourselves more time, so hopefully should be ok
[10:41] <ajmitch> feature freeze is slightly earlier than previous releases, isn't it?
[10:42] <hunger> Kamion: I had to write a bugreport each day of the week since my system did not come up as expected. The good thing is that all of them are fixed already:-)
[10:42] <Kamion> ajmitch: don't believe so
[10:42] <Kamion> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess lists the release process changes relative to breezy
[10:42] <tepsipakki> mvo: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/tmp/u-m.debug
[10:42] <hunger> Kamion: So if you guys can keep up with that, then I have no doubt that you will manage to make dapper pretty stable.
[10:43] <tepsipakki> mvo: there's also dist-upgrade*.log
[10:43] <Kamion> ajmitch: in fact it's week 19 now rather than week 17
[10:43] <ajmitch> currently it's looking like policy would be in universe, and very little changes to what's already in dapper
[10:43] <Kamion> not sure that's entirely intentional, just how it shook out
[10:43] <ajmitch> ok
[10:43] <tepsipakki> mvo: I'm using a local (unofficial) mirror...
[10:44] <mvo> tepsipakki: thanks! helped me a lot, I think I think I found the problem and will attack it now
[10:44] <tepsipakki> mvo: cool
[10:44] <Kamion> hunger: the tail-end of the big invasive boot process changes are still coming in, so I think that's to be expected; thanks for filing bugs
[10:44] <mvo> tepsipakki: but it's a mirror with valid gpg-sigs? the next-version of the dist-upgrader won't upgrade if anything can't be authenticated
[10:45] <tepsipakki> mvo: yes, I maintain it =)
[10:45] <ajmitch> pitti: selinux policy handling has really improved a lot with binary modules & reference policy - it'll be sane for you to support :)
[10:45] <tepsipakki> mvo: mirrored with apt-mirror, and at least the installer doesn't complain about it
[10:46] <mvo> tepsipakki: cool :) that's fine then. I'll let you know when I have something new to test
[10:47] <mvo> tepsipakki: is this a ubuntu or a kubuntu system you are on?
[10:48] <tepsipakki> mvo: ubuntu
[10:48] <Kinnison> k
[10:48] <Kinnison> sorry, wrong window
[10:48] <tepsipakki> mvo: I have the full list of packages from dpkg --get-selections if you need
[10:49] <tepsipakki> mvo: only unofficial packages atm are sun-j2dk and w32codecs ;)
[10:50] <mvo> tepsipakki: that should be fine, it shouldn't do anything to them (if it can avoid it). your sources.list is more interessting to me
[10:50] <hunger> Anyone working on malone #23388? That one has dapper set as a milestone?
[10:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 23388: "tput used in /lib/lsb/init-functions after /usr is unmounted" Fix req. for: lsb lsb-base (Ubuntu), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Michael Vogt, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/23388
[10:50] <mvo> tepsipakki: feel free to send it via mail if you don't want to expose it here in a pulic channel
[10:50] <hunger> It is not yet fixed.
[10:51] <mvo> tepsipakki: I have the suspicion that the sources.list rewriter dosn't work well with unoffical mirrors
[10:51] <Kamion> hunger: I expect that bugs with dapper set as a milestone will be evaluated by the release team as we come up to release to make sure they either get explicitly deferred or fixed, rather than accidentally left behind
[10:51] <tepsipakki> mvo: it's here http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/tmp/sources.list, after running the u-m
[10:52] <hunger> Kamion: I hope so... it was defer in breezy already and I find it really unprofessional to have error messages scroll by on bootup/shutdown.
[10:52] <mvo> tepsipakki: thanks, that helps me a lot!
[10:53] <Kamion> hunger: well, it was only noticed just before breezy, so that's understandable
[10:53] <hunger> Kamion: I am not blaming anyone... I do understand why that decission was made back then.
[10:54] <Kamion> yep
[11:00] <mvo> mdz_: do you think a summary report about the current state of breezy->dapper dist-upgrades should be send to the ubuntu-devel list? or do you consider it's too early in the release-cycle for this?
[11:01] <mvo> Diziet: around?
[11:03] <mdz_> mvo: I think that would be completely appropriate
[11:03] <mdz_> mvo: we should pay attention to this sort of thing much earlier for dapper
[11:07] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, 'sudo mount /dev/hda3 /target' doesn't spawn a nautilus window for me...
[11:11] <mvo> mdz: thanks, I'll writeup something then
[11:15] <Kamion> pitti: weird
[11:15] <pitti> Kamion: I get a window for /cdrom, and no window for /mnt and /target
[11:15] <Kamion> pitti: unless it's an hda/sda distinction (which would be crack)
[11:16] <pitti> Kamion: lemme dig out the logic for that, then I'll come back to you (I probably need an lshal output)
[11:18] <pitti> fabbione!
[11:18] <pitti> fabbione: had a good journey?
[11:18] <ajmitch> hey fabbione
[11:18] <mvo> hello fabbione!
[11:19] <fabbione> hey guys
[11:19] <fabbione> pitti: no it did suck a lot
[11:21] <Kamion> how do I stop my gtk application from popping up underneath the terminal I launch it from?
[11:21] <Kamion> excuse the gtk newbie question
[11:21] <fabbione> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/u-n.strace
[11:22] <Mithrandir> kamion: use a non-insane wm? :-)
[11:22] <Kamion> Mithrandir: don't get a *lot* of choice on the live CD ...
[11:22] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I saw somebody complaining about it in the regular desktop the other day.  Blame metacity.
[11:23] <Kamion> I understand there's some rubric an application can do at startup to set some kind of timestamp
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: there's lots of discussion about this bug ATM, see gnome bug 326159
[11:24] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 326159: "Experimental strict-focus-approximation feature" Product: metacity, Component: general, Severity: normal, Assigned to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Status: NEW http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326159
[11:24] <pitti> Kamion: please add your complaint as well, the more, the better :)
[11:27] <Kamion> hm, ok
[11:28] <pitti> Kamion: and, well, we need a 'change gnome behaviour two days before the release' item for dapper, too :)
[11:28] <seb128> pitti: I can work on that one :p
[11:29] <seb128> oh
[11:29] <seb128> :)
[11:29] <pitti> \o/
[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: ah, I can reproduce it now. seems to depend on the moon phase
[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: (nautilus window for mount /target)
[11:31] <Treenaks> pitti: do you still do ALSA?
[11:32] <pitti> Treenaks: well, I never really 'did' alsa, I changed some bits and pieces in the gnome integration
[11:32] <pitti> Treenaks: but I have commit access to Debian now :)
[11:32] <Treenaks> pitti: 'do you handle alsa-lib bugs?' :)
[11:32] <pitti> I'm not an expert at all for that, but just assign it to me if you want
[11:33] <Treenaks> pitti: well, I filed it on alsa-lib; and it has a fix in debian
[11:33] <pitti> oh, easy then
[11:33] <Treenaks> pitti: AND it's a one-line diff
[11:33] <pitti> hey infinity
[11:33] <pitti> Treenaks: so it's a mere merge?
[11:34] <Treenaks> pitti: from experimental, I think
[11:34] <Treenaks> (if I read the debian report right)
[11:34] <pitti> Treenaks: oh, experimental already has 1.0.11rc stuff, right?
[11:34] <pitti> well, then we'll patch it rather
[11:34] <Treenaks> pitti: it's launchpad #29722
[11:34] <pitti> bug 29722
[11:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29722: "libasound2: breaks PMacToonie.conf" Fix req. for: alsa-lib (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Unconfirmed http://launchpad.net/bugs/29722
[11:35] <pitti> Treenaks: ah, that rings a bell - BenC mentioned that
[11:35] <Treenaks> pitti: the kernel part was fixed in the last kernel upload
[11:36] <Kamion> pitti: comment added
[11:37] <ogra> hmm, nobody in this bug takes into account that there might be users that delete the taskbar :)
[11:38] <ogra> (for whatever obscure reason)
[11:38] <pitti> Treenaks: ubuntu task opened and assigned to ubuntu-audio (which I'm a member of)
[11:47] <pitti> Kamion: maybe a slightly different g-v-m semantics is even more appropriate: it should only display nautilus windows for devices it mounted itself, not for devices which were manually mounted
[11:50] <ogra> hey infinity
[11:51] <mvo> tepsipakki: I implemented gui-error reporting, you should be able to test it already. the sources.list rewriting problem is not attacked yet though :/
[11:52] <Kamion> pitti: works for me; that would avoid the irritating "I ran pmount and a window popped up" thing
[11:53] <Diziet> mvo: Ah, hello.  What can I do for you ?
[11:54] <mvo> Diziet: I wanted to ask about the automatic upgrade test stuff, are you working on that?
[11:55] <Diziet> Um, I have some automated testing work, yes, but I haven't glued it to piuparts (yet).  Was that what you meant ?
[11:56] <mvo> Diziet: yes. I did some manual upgrade testing (sort of a by-product of the dist-upgrader work)
[11:56] <mvo> Diziet: so I naturally though it would be good to team up
[11:56] <mvo> :)
[11:57] <mvo> Diziet: a clean upgrade (packagewise) is important because apt dosn't handles failures in the middle of a dist-upgrade not very well
[11:57] <Diziet> Right.  Have you read http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomatedTesting ?  That's what I've been implementing.
[11:57] <pitti> Kamion: fixed and uploaded
[11:57] <Diziet> mvo: Right.
[11:57] <tepsipakki> mvo: ok, the error is the same as in dist-upgrade.log though
[11:58] <mvo> tepsipakki: yes, that is intentional, it should be enough to send the two files to make me happy :)
[11:59] <Diziet> mvo: What do you want out of an automatic upgrade test gizmo ?
[11:59] <Diziet> Or were you hoping I'd have answered that question for myself ? :-)
[12:00] <tepsipakki> mvo: right, they are now in here: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/tmp/
[12:00] <mvo> Diziet: well, what I really want is to know if a package upgrades cleanly from breezy to hoary. that involves file-override errors, errors in post,pre-inst etc
[12:00] <mvo> tepsipakki: thanks a lot for your help!
[12:01] <tepsipakki> mvo: well, they look the same as before ;)
[12:01] <mvo> Diziet: that isn't covered by the spec, but piuparts should help here I guess
[12:01] <mvo> tepsipakki: yes, but now your got a gui-dialog that told you about the problem and the error is logged too :)
[12:02] <Diziet> Surely the best way to find this out is to actually try it ?  Or do you mean you want to look at a package in isolation and check that at the very least you can dpkg -i it over and over again ?
[12:02] <tepsipakki> mvo: true, it's better this way
[12:03] <mvo> Diziet: yeah, I totally agree. I mainly wanted to know if anything like this is covered by the automatic testing spec/implementation yet :)
[12:04] <Diziet> No, I'm afraid not.  It's clear that much of the same system should be able to embrace piuparts and things like it but exactly how to do that glue hasn't been designed or implemented.
[12:05] <mvo> thanks
[12:07] <sabdfl> iw
[12:07] <sabdfl> oww
[12:08] <Diziet> mvo: I'll raise embracing piuparts up my todo list.  It's a good way of getting a lot of testing done for less effort than writing per package tests.
[12:08] <pitti> sabdfl: scray sounds - you need a massage? :)
[12:08] <Diziet> sabdfl: Good morning.  Have a cup of tea.
[12:08] <Kamion> Diziet: it's possible that it'd get Lars Wirzenius writing code for you, too ...
[12:08] <sabdfl> pitti: in these parts, that's always a good idea ;-P
[12:09] <pitti> sabdfl: I had a Thai massage (my first one) two weeks ago, it was sooooo good
[12:09] <sabdfl> i booked one in Mumbai, but Jane looked like she needed it more than me so I gave it to her
[12:10] <sabdfl> i mean
[12:10] <sabdfl> i let the smooth operator give it to her :-)
[12:10] <ogra> heh
[12:10] <pitti> hehe
[12:10] <mvo> Diziet: thanks, I'll have a closer look myself too. not sure how helpful it is though, because apparently it tests a single deb only?
[12:10] <fabbione> hey sabdfl !
[12:10] <ajmitch> evening sabdfl
[12:10] <Diziet> mvo: Yes.  But there's no reason it couldn't be made to have a loop :-).
[12:10] <mvo> Diziet: :)
[12:11] <Diziet> If you want to do a whole dist-upgrade test then just do a dist-upgrade test.
[12:11] <sabdfl> hey fabbione you genius, how's life?
[12:11] <fabbione> sabdfl: everything is fine.. we are hammering apache 2.2
[12:11] <sabdfl> ajmitch: good to meet you again
[12:11] <Diziet> One big point of it is that we'll be able to run it during upload processing.
[12:11] <ajmitch> sabdfl: enjoying dunedin?
[12:11] <sabdfl> ajmitch: rather. beautiful part of the world
[12:12] <Simira> sabdfl : How are you today? I owe you a hug, Ubuntu just got me a job :)
[12:12] <Kinnison> Simira: yay
[12:13] <marilize> hi sabdfl
[12:13] <sabdfl> Simira: CONGRATULATIONS!
[12:13] <sabdfl> hey marilize
[12:14] <ogra> Simira, wow, how that ?
[12:14] <marilize> sabdfl   :)
[12:14] <Kamion> sabdfl: morning
[12:14] <Kamion> or whatever it is there
[12:15] <Simira> ogra : I'm in a program for getting back to work after being sick for a long time. And I got to work in (at least one of) Norway's  best providers of linux services
[12:15] <hunger> Does someone have an idea what might have broken wpasupplicant since yesterday evening?
[12:15] <ogra> Simira, cool !
[12:16] <mvo> Simira: great! congratulations
[12:16] <hunger> Simira: congratutalitons!
[12:16] <Simira> ogra : definitely. And they took me because of my involvement with Ubuntu. They normally don't take trainees and stuff, but they liked my background.
[12:16] <Simira> thanks :)
[12:16] <ajmitch> Simira: great, can you get me a job also? :)
[12:16] <ogra> wow, thats really awesome :)
[12:16] <Simira> ajmitch : probably. They are hiring a lot of people these days. You should learn Norwegian though.
[12:17] <Simira> I also already got requests for features for Ubuntu. I will put a mail on that tomorrow.
[12:17] <ajmitch> that could be a challenge
[12:17] <ajmitch>  http://radio.ctd.id.au:88/lalive.ogg
[12:17] <ajmitch> oops
[12:17] <ajmitch> gpg: key 5921B5D8: "Andrew Mitchell<EMAIL_ADDRESS>18 new signatures
[12:17] <ctd> that's cool! pimp pimp pimp
[12:18] <ajmitch> ctd: copy/paste was broken from my terminal :)
[12:18] <ajmitch> looks like people have uploaded signatures directly, instead of mailing me
[12:18] <Kinnison> ajmitch: can't expect everyone to be as careful as us
[12:37] <hunger_> BenC: Are there any problems with wpa_supplicant and the -14- linux kernel set on madwifi?
[12:37] <hunger_> BenC: It did and does work with the -13- set of kernel and restricted modules.
[12:38] <hunger_> nick hunger
[01:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: if I were to build you a casper ISO, any chance you could test it for me?  (Amd64)
[01:08] <mvo> Mithrandir: if it's just the amd64 testing that is needed, I could help too
[01:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: Simira can do it for me.
[01:09] <Mithrandir> mvo: so I should be fine.
[01:09] <mvo> ok :)
[01:09] <Mithrandir> (it also means I don't have to rsync a cdimage up on my silly home DSL)
[01:09] <Tm_T> hey, who's the man to talk about mirrors?
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Tm_T<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:09] <Tm_T> ah, because iirc fi. mirror is located somewhere in england -> slow
[01:10] <Tm_T> and I think I found good place for it
[01:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: erm, sure? if it's reasonably rsyncable against the current amd64 live
[01:13] <Mithrandir> pitti: I know it is.  It's getting it up again which will be slow.
[01:18] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, just send me a link when it's ready
[01:53] <pitti> doko: ok, this alsa-libs issue seems to be reasonably easy, I'll just upload a fix and see whether it works
[02:06] <pitti> Kinnison: oh, btw, can you ping me right before you switch to soyuz? directly after that I need to upload a pkgstriptranslations which calls dpkg-distaddfile
[02:06] <Kinnison> pitti: mdz wants us to stick with the current method for a while
[02:06] <Kinnison> pitti: So you'll have to talk to him
[02:06] <pitti> ok, fine for my
[02:06] <pitti> me, even
[02:06] <pitti> I just want to make sure to not break the buildds and translation tarballs :)
[02:06] <mdz> we'll do that transition separately and later
[02:07] <Kinnison> I need to get one of the buildd admins to talk to me about how the translation tarballs get off the buildds so that I can make sure our launchpad-buildd stuff can do it too
[02:07] <pitti> alright
[02:09] <doko> pitti: thanks
[02:10] <pitti> doko: uploaded, I'll watch the build logs and cross fingers :)
[02:15] <jbailey> pitti: Heya!  29747 seems to say that translations aren't making it into the langpacks.  Is Rosetta still broken for exporting them?
[02:15] <pitti> jbailey: so far yes
[02:15] <pitti> jbailey: carlos gave me a new breezy tarball two days ago, thouhg
[02:15] <pitti> I'm currently testing it
[02:16] <pitti> but I didn't get a dapper tarball so far
[02:20] <ogra> pitti, BenC, one of you broke ppc sound
[02:20] <pitti> ogra: I just uploaded a new alsa-lib which might fix it again
[02:20] <ogra> ah, fine
[02:21] <pitti> ogra: can you please check? bug 29722
[02:21] <Ubugtu> moo
[02:21] <pitti> he?
[02:21] <ogra> lol
[02:21] <pitti> ogra: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/alsa-lib/+bug/29722
[02:22] <ogra> silly bot
[02:22] <Tm_T> hum
[02:22] <Tm_T> has anyone used pypanel ?
[02:24] <ogra> pitti, hmm, rather looks like th emodules are missing completely
[02:25] <pitti> ogra: kernel modules?
[02:25] <ogra> yup
[02:25] <ogra> at least nothing is loaded here
[02:25] <pitti> can you sudo modprobe snd_powermac?
[02:26] <ogra> * warning: 'alsactl restore' failed with error message 'alsactl: load_state:1236: No soundcards found...'...
[02:26] <ogra> but now they are loaded
[02:27] <ogra> hmm... udev glitch ?
[02:28] <pitti> ogra: incidentially, my pcspkr on amd64 doesn't work any more :)
[02:28] <Ubugtu> moof
[02:28] <pitti> huh?
[02:28] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/alsa reload
[02:28] <ogra> /etc/init.d/alsa: Warning: Directory /var/run/alsa is not present
[02:28] <pitti> Seveas: can you tame this Ubugtu again? it's going mad
[02:28] <ogra> hmm
[02:28] <pitti> aaah, that explains a lot :)
[02:28] <ogra> :)
[02:29] <Seveas> pitti, I was working on it, moo is my favourite debug statement :)
[02:29] <pitti> ogra: I'll add an mkdir -p to /etc/init.d/alsa
[02:30] <ogra> looks like it might get complicated, i guess you need another dir to store them
[02:30] <ogra> (for hibernate)
[02:30] <Keybuk> ogra: I'd be surprised ... udev doesn't tend to "glitch", one of the nice things about it is that it's damned reliable
[02:30] <Seveas> pitti bug 29722
[02:30] <pitti> why, does hibernation kill /var/run?
[02:30] <ogra> or does the tmpfs stay
[02:30] <pitti> it would be deadly
[02:30] <pitti> killing all pids, sockets, etc.
[02:30] <Seveas> urgh, still broken it seems...
[02:30] <ogra> hmm, true
[02:30] <Keybuk> pitti: I'm very tempted to move everything alsa-related into udev rules, and take away that init script
[02:31] <pitti> Keybuk: go ahead :)
[02:31] <ogra> Keybuk, does /var/run persist at hibernation ?
[02:31] <Seveas> hmm, connection dropped
[02:31] <Keybuk> it works here
[02:31] <Keybuk> ogra: damned well should do!  I've done nothing to unmount it
[02:31] <pitti> Keybuk: I get the same message, FWIW, but my sound card works nevertheless
[02:31] <ogra> Keybuk, ok, fine ... better to ask then guess :)
[02:31] <pitti> Keybuk: but the powerpc sound card is not hotpluggable, that's why that script might be necessary
[02:32] <pitti> Hello Ubugtu, welcome back
[02:32] <pitti> bug 29722
[02:32] <desrt> Ubugtu; sup, homes?
[02:32] <desrt> hey pitti. :)
[02:33] <desrt> oh man.  i think we got him too excited :)
[02:34] <Seveas> launchpad keeps breaking him
[02:34] <Treenaks> Seveas: how?
[02:34] <Seveas> I still have to parse html
[02:35] <desrt> surely you can do better than that
[02:35] <Seveas> and they subtly change^Wbreak everything I need every week
[02:35] <Seveas> nope, launchpad has only an html interface
[02:35] <ogra> hmm, "/dev/pmu has wrong permissions" what generates this error message ?
[02:35] <desrt> have them fix it
[02:35] <ogra> pitti, is that hal ?
[02:35] <desrt> ogra; or pbbuttonsd
[02:35] <seb128> gnome-settings-daemon does
[02:35] <pitti> ogra: no, it's something in the panel
[02:35] <seb128> (the pmu message)
[02:35] <pitti> ogra: right
[02:35] <ogra> ah, k
[02:35] <Keybuk> ooh, cheerful phone engineer today ...
[02:36] <desrt> seb/pitti; why is gnome accessing /dev/pmu?
[02:36] <pitti> ogra: we fixed it back in warty, but the patch was dropped recently
[02:36] <Keybuk> pitti: hmm, does that init script load the module for the powerpc card?
[02:36] <Seveas> hah
[02:36] <Seveas> pitti bug 29722
[02:36] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29722 in alsa-lib: "libasound2: breaks PMacToonie.conf" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29722
[02:36] <ogra> desrt, reding lid events from hal for gnome-poer-manager for example
[02:36] <ogra> *power
[02:36] <Seveas> it works again and is much more consise (to please fabbione)
[02:36] <desrt> ogra; seems like that sort of thing should happen through hal.....
[02:36] <pitti> Keybuk: hmm, so far we have it in /etc/modules, so I don't know
[02:36] <seb128> ogra: g-s-d doesn't use hal
[02:37] <pitti> Keybuk: I can try it out
[02:37] <ogra> desrt, thats why i asked if hal generates the message :)
[02:37] <ogra> seb128, i know
[02:37] <seb128> desrt: changing the fblevel
[02:37] <fabbione> who does maintain xine-lib? i keep forgetting...
[02:37] <desrt> seb128; ah.  now this makes sense :)
[02:37] <pitti> fabbione: slomo
[02:37] <ogra> but i get no lid button events here and was hoping that was a related message :)
[02:37] <fabbione> (and lazy to check the changelog)
[02:37] <fabbione> slomo: ping?
[02:38] <seb128> desrt: that's a part of the acme actions (like volume, etc)
[02:38] <siretart> fabbione: perhaps I can help you? slomo did the split for main/universe/multiverse, though
[02:39] <fabbione> siretart: http://buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/x/xine-lib/1.1.1-0ubuntu4/
[02:39] <fabbione> siretart: can you look at the sparc FTBFS please?
[02:39] <fabbione> you have a sparc and you can run dapper :D
[02:41] <siretart> fabbione: As soon as I reach joerg to get igor back online
[02:41] <fabbione> siretart: ok, when you do, please be sure to either tell me or stop crontab from init s
[02:41] <fabbione> so that the buildd won't start automatically
[02:42] <BenC> ogra: should be fixed in -14
[02:42] <fabbione> otherwise it will mess around
[02:42] <fabbione> hey Ben
[02:42] <ogra> BenC, that is -14
[02:42] <BenC> ogra: if not, can you spend some time on it with me?
[02:42] <BenC> hey fabbione
[02:42] <ogra> BenC, but seems its caused through missing /var/run stuff
[02:42] <siretart> fabbione: in which crontab the buildd is started? I will comment it out then
[02:42] <fabbione> siretart: in sparcbuildd user
[02:42] <BenC> ogra: what's the error(s)?
[02:43] <siretart> ok. will disable it then. no problem
[02:43] <fabbione> siretart: it runs automatically at 20 and 50 of each hour
[02:43] <fabbione> siretart: ok
[02:43] <ogra> BenC, the sund modules dont get loaded ... alsa expects /var/run/alsa/modules-removed to be there
[02:44] <ogra> BenC, pitti is fixing it already
[02:44] <pitti> me or Keybuk, depending on how we want to fix it
[02:44] <BenC> ogra: sounds like alsa bug
[02:44] <BenC> ah, ok
[02:44] <ogra> BenC, yup
[02:45] <BenC> ogra: do you remember what type of sound chip you had (toonie, tumbler, snapper...)?
[02:45] <ogra> i think it was snapper ...
[02:45] <BenC> I did a lot of rework on snd-powermac, and I need feedback
[02:45] <zakame> evening devs :)
[02:45] <BenC> ok, let me know how it goes, snapper is untested
[02:45] <ogra> will do once alsa is in shape again
[02:46] <BenC> -13 oopsed for snapper, hoping -14 works
[02:46] <pitti> Keybuk: I'm rebooting with a mkdir -p in the init script and snd_powermac removed from /etc/modules
[02:46] <pitti> Keybuk: if that works, automatically loading the module from a script sounds preferable
[02:47] <ogra> Mithrandir, should the ppc liveCD currently work ?
[02:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: I assume so, I don't have any bug reports about it not working.
[02:49] <pitti> ogra: /etc/init.d/alsa reload unloads nothing and loads nithing
[02:49] <pitti> ogra: and there is no start option
[02:49] <pitti> so this seems pretty broken anyway
[02:49] <ogra> Mithrandir, hmm, hangs here with edubuntu live from last night ...
[02:50] <ogra> Mithrandir, cant mount the rootfs as it seems
[02:50] <pitti> Keybuk: aah, I see - look in the header of that script
[02:50] <Mithrandir> ogra: can you get me an error message?
[02:50] <Kamion> could be mid-kernel-ABI transition, although that should be less likely now
[02:50] <pitti> # There is no longer any need to run this script on bootup or shutdown.
[02:50] <pitti> # It must remain in /etc/init.d/ for now, though, because certain
[02:50] <pitti> # other scripts expect to find it there.
[02:50] <Kamion> ogra: (try booting with live-nosplash)
[02:50] <ogra> Kamion, ah, was about to ask, thanks
[02:51] <pitti> ogra, Keybuk: so let's kill this script and leave snd_powermac in /etc/modules
[02:51] <ogra> pitti, sounds sane
[02:55] <tepsipakki> seb128: could you look at gnome bug 328404? (same as malone 29178)
[02:55] <Ubugtu> Gnome bug 328404 in dialog: "dialog loses focus" [critical,NEEDINFO]  http://bugs.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=328404
[02:56] <seb128> tepsipakki: what about it?
[02:56] <tepsipakki> seb128: the gnome-vfs stuff, is it normal?
[02:57] <seb128> it is linked to gnome-vfs, a sec
[02:59] <tepsipakki> configure checks for it.. wonder why upstream doesn't know about it ;)
[03:02] <seb128> I commented on the bug upstream
[03:03] <tepsipakki> :)
[03:06] <pitti> carlos: ping
[03:11] <pitti> hi ogra_ibook, does the live CD work?
[03:11] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, sorry, false alarm, it boots after hanging 5min
[03:11] <tseng> ogra_ibook: does it hang on "Detecting hardware" ?
[03:11] <ogra_ibook> bug: softmac detected at CPU#0 or something similar
[03:12] <Mithrandir> ogra_ibook: wasn't that a udev problem some time ago?
[03:12] <tseng> i have udevstart hanging
[03:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: nobody has yet given me a powerpc machine, so it's hard for me to debug.
[03:12] <ogra> lets do it at the sprint then
[03:12] <ogra> i saw that before on my GFs mac
[03:13] <jbailey> pitti: I have another langpackish question for you - might be something to defer to the next spec writing sprint, though.
[03:13] <ogra> it rather looks like a kernel thing ... or even something in initramfs ...
[03:13] <jbailey> pitti: timezone data is also updated several times a year.
[03:13] <pitti> ogra: btw, that /etc/init.d/alsa script does some rather interesting stuff, maybe we should leave it as it is; but it definitively doesn't load modules
[03:14] <ogra> pitti, i think its used for suspend/hibernate
[03:14] <jbailey> pitti: It's a fairly clean import, glibc just does it.  Do you think it would be a horrible stretch to put that into the master locales package?
[03:14] <pitti> jbailey: no, sounds pretty easy
[03:15] <jbailey> 'kay.  The suck part is that it's a massive hardlink farm.
[03:15] <jbailey> I'll have to look at how to export the building of it from glibc, but it seems like something that we really *ought* to be globally updating.
[03:16] <jbailey> pitti: I have a feeling that part of what I Should do at this sprint is sit down with you and figure out how you do these updates if I'm poking more pieces into it.
[03:17] <pitti> yes, that sounds like a good agenda point
[03:17] <pitti> arrgh
[03:18] <pitti> caaaaaarrloooooos
[03:18] <pitti> carlos: here?
[03:19] <carlos> pitti, hi, just arrived
[03:19] <pitti> ah, great to see you again
[03:19] <pitti> carlos: I just review the 33 MB worth of breezy tarball diff
[03:19] <pitti> carlos: there are some removed translations
[03:19] <pitti> carlos: but since the latest breezy tarball does not contain pot files, I couldn't merge against them, but had to merge against the original breezy pot files
[03:20] <pitti> (which should actually be correct, though)
[03:20] <carlos> pitti, URL?
[03:20] <carlos> pitti, yeah the .pot files should be the same
[03:20] <pitti> carlos: can we check some removals together?
[03:20] <carlos> pitti, sure
[03:21] <pitti> carlos: p.u.c./~pitti/langpacks/current.diff.gz (8,2 MB)
[03:22] <pitti> carlos: let's do that in /msg
[03:22] <carlos> ok
[03:58] <Keybuk> muahahaha
[03:58] <Keybuk> BT engineers are so much easier to bribe than BT call-centre staff
[03:58] <rod> hi
[03:58] <Kinnison> Keybuk: hmm?
[03:58] <rod> someone knows how to apply transset on menus?
[03:58] <Keybuk> Kinnison: bribed the BT engineer with tea and fun stories to replace my entire pair
[03:59] <Kinnison> Keybuk: cool
[03:59] <Kinnison> Keybuk: ran a new pair to the DP for you too? Or just rerouted at the DP?
[03:59] <Keybuk> Kinnison: rerouted at both green boxes
[03:59] <Keybuk> he claimed to be able to here a squeaking noise on my pair, and that it pretty much went through a great big puddle of water
[04:00] <tseng> Keybuk: how aware are you of udevplug hanging on flight3 installs?
[04:01] <tseng> strace tells me it is trying to mkdir /dev/.udev/queue over and over, as its already there
[04:01] <tseng> removing it sets it straight again
[04:01] <Diziet> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/python-gnome2_2.12.3-1_all.deb
[04:01] <Diziet>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libpythonmethod.so', which is also in package python2.4-gnome2
[04:02] <Diziet> Is this known ?
[04:02] <siretart> Keybuk: I hope you are not angry with me that I stole the courier bug from you yesterday :)
[04:02] <Kinnison> Keybuk: the DPs yes
[04:02] <Keybuk> siretart: yeah, fix my bugs, bitch! :p
[04:02] <Keybuk> tseng: curious
[04:02] <siretart> hrhr
[04:02] <Keybuk> tseng: I'm not aware of any bugs
[04:03] <siretart> I didn't notice that the bug was already assigned to you
[04:03] <siretart> only after uploading it..
[04:03] <tseng> Keybuk: there are a few useless but similar reports on LP
[04:03] <Keybuk> tseng: that's deliberately behaviour though ... that means that udevd has a queue, so it sits there in a loop waiting for mkdir to not return EEXIST
[04:03] <Keybuk> tseng: if /dev/.udev/queue is empty but the directory still exists, there's another bug
[04:04] <tseng> hm well it hangs for several minutes on S10udev
[04:04] <tseng> before I presume it gives up
[04:04] <Keybuk> it does it for you?
[04:04] <tseng> because things are properly plugged
[04:04] <tseng> ya
[04:05] <tseng> if i let it time out, or whatever it does, i dont get /dev/input/mice and other niceities
[04:05] <tseng> if i rm queue and force udevplug again
[04:05] <tseng> its good to go.
[04:05] <Keybuk> the most useful thing you could do to debug would be boot with init=/bin/sh, then try yourself running "udevd --daemon", check /dev/.udev/queue *doesn't* exist, then run "udevplug -s -v" and see what the last thing printed is before it hangs
[04:05] <tseng> ill have to look tonight if there is actually something useful looking in the dir
[04:06] <kent> Diziet: report bugs in malone for them to be known.
[04:06] <tseng> Keybuk: noted, thanks.
[04:06] <Diziet> kent: Yes, I can file a bug but this is blocking me so I have to make the symptoms disappear.  If anyone wants more info before I force it through then it has to be now.
[04:07] <Keybuk> that'll make it do each plug one at a time, waiting before/after each, and print the sysfs paths it tries as it goes along
[04:07] <Keybuk> usually you'll find it's one thing that's just not playing ball
[04:07] <Keybuk> or there's a bug :p
[04:07] <Keybuk> if /dev/.udev/queue exists before you run udevplug, then that's a more interesting bug :)
[04:07] <tseng> i suspected usb hub, but it wasnt the case
[04:07] <mvo> Keybuk: my network interfaces where swapped  (eth0->eth1, eth1->eth0) this morning, did you got a report about something like that already?
[04:08] <Keybuk> mvo: I've not done any ifrename work yet ... so they'll go to their "default" (ie. whatever order the kernel feels like today) settings
[04:08] <ogra> mvo, mine just swapped back
[04:08] <Keybuk> first I need to fix ifupdown, which looks like it was written by a monkey (hi, aj! :p)
[04:08] <mvo> ogra: cool, what did you do?
[04:08] <ogra> eth2 became eth1 again :)
[04:08] <bddebian> Hello
[04:08] <ogra> nothing
[04:08] <ogra> 2.6.15-14 seems to have it fixed
[04:08] <mvo> Keybuk: aha, ok then, thanks
[04:09] <Keybuk> ogra: don't bet on it, just means that random fluctuations in the space-kernel-continuum mean they got detected in the opposite order *this* boot :p
[04:09] <mvo> ogra: might to be random then? let's wait for the next reboot :P
[04:09] <Keybuk> did you know ... that you can't run two ifup processes at once? :)
[04:09] <ogra> Keybuk, lol, yup
[04:09] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: it's called "locking".
[04:09] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: aye, explains many bugs
[04:09] <pitti> why should they lock globally?
[04:10] <Keybuk> pitti: because ifup keeps the state file in memory, reads it when it starts and only writes when it's done
[04:10] <pitti> ah, I see
[04:10] <Keybuk> or, at least, it *used* to do that :p
[04:10] <ogra> you broke it ?
[04:10] <Keybuk> no, I'm *FIXING* it
[04:10] <Keybuk> :D
[04:10] <ogra> heh
[04:10] <Keybuk> with a sledgehammer
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: <pitti> ogra: btw, that /etc/init.d/alsa script does some rather interesting stuff, maybe we should leave it as it is; but it definitively doesn't load modules
[04:11] <Keybuk> pitti: hmm, what loads the modules then?
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: /etc/modules :)
[04:11] <pitti> Keybuk: snd_powermac was put there since warty
[04:11] <Keybuk> I didn't think the alsa script did ANYTHING on start
[04:12] <pitti> since this pmu/ado bus is not hotpluggable
[04:12] <pitti> Keybuk: right, it doesn't even have a start action
[04:12] <Keybuk> it's the alsa-utils one that restores mixer settings and stuff
[04:12] <Keybuk> which is the one I meant :)
[04:12] <pitti> Keybuk: it's just there to unload drivers and kill processes for hibernate, and stuff
[04:12] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, but that shouldn't load modules, or does it?
[04:12] <ogra> Keybuk, the script is used for suspend/resume ....
[04:12] <Keybuk> it doesn't load modules, no
[04:13] <Keybuk> just does basically the same things the modprobe/udev/et. al. rules do
[04:13] <ogra> it unloads on suspend and loads whats in the file in /var/run on resume
[04:13] <pitti> ok, for that I indeed agree
[04:13] <Keybuk> ogra: ah, probably that one's the one that needs a mkdir then
[04:13] <pitti> setting mixer levels when the card becomes available instead of at boot makes sense
[04:13] <ogra> yup
[04:13] <pitti> Keybuk: grep var/run /etc/init.d/alsa-utils matches nothing
[04:14] <pitti> erm, right (just read backscroll)
[04:14] <pitti> ogra: so, what's the issue on your ibook? doesn't /etc/moudles contain snd_powermac?
[04:14] <ogra> pitti, err, wrong script ?
[04:15] <pitti> yes, I just noticed, sorry
[04:15] <ogra> snd-powermac
[04:15] <ogra> hmm
[04:15] <pitti> that's right
[04:15] <pitti> so why it isn't loaded?
[04:15] <ogra> shouldnt that be an underscore?
[04:15] <pitti> no, that doesn't matter
[04:15] <bddebian> Bah, who needs powermac when it's all just Intel now?
[04:16] <pitti> :)
[04:16] <bddebian> pitti: :-)
[04:17] <ogra> pitti, i didnt load it manually ... but upgraded to 2.6.15-14 recently ...
[04:18] <bddebian> Hmm, maybe I'll get sound on my RS/6000 :-)
[04:31] <pitti> doko: alsa-lib_1.0.10-2ubuntu1_20060126-1443-i386-successful.gz \o/
[04:31] <crimsun> pitti: thanks much, that should take care of some of the sb live & sb audigy skews we've seen
[04:34] <pitti> right, so far alsa-libs was still at 1.0.9 on i386
[04:35] <doko> pitti: nice :)
[04:40] <ogra_ibook> heh, the interfaces are really randomly changing their names :)
[04:40] <Keybuk> whooh
[04:40] <Keybuk> my ifupdown butchery actually seems to work
[04:41] <ogra> pitti, just adding a mkdir -p doesnt solve it ...
[04:42] <pitti> ogra: no surprise, that script isn't responsible for loading the modules
[04:42] <ogra> even if the modules are loaded
[04:43] <ogra> * warning: 'alsactl restore' failed with error message 'alsactl: load_state:1236: No soundcards found...'...
[04:43] <ogra> there must be something missing additionally
[05:01] <Keybuk> okaaaay, this one can go in the archive
[05:19] <Keybuk> mmmm, "stoned server"
[05:20] <Nafallo> Keybuk: almost like you should release a new version with more mature strings in it ;-).
[05:21] <Keybuk> bah
[05:21] <Keybuk> that ruins the fun
[05:21] <Keybuk> it's a testament to my immaturity when I wrote it ;)
[05:22] <Nafallo> hehe, that's one way of looking at it indeed ;-).
[05:22] <Keybuk> not that I'm any more mature now, of course
[05:28] <lamont__> in malone, how do I tell it that it's a dup of a debian bug?
[05:29] <ogra> add a bugwatch ?
[05:29] <pitti> lamont__: in the menu at the right, 'Link to Other Bug Tracker'
[05:29] <pitti> ogra: did you get that kernel oops on ppc/live, too?
[05:29] <pitti> ogra: (in squashfs)
[05:29] <ogra> yes
[05:29] <pitti> ogra: I think that's the one fixed in 14?
[05:29] <lamont__> OH MY GOODNESS!!!
[05:29] <ogra> but thats there since ever ?
[05:29] <pitti> ogra: and menu -> shut down -> reboot doesn't work for me
[05:30] <lamont__> There's an _UNDERLINED_ link on the bugs page.
[05:30] <pitti> ogra: oh, now it just worked, it took about 30 seconds to react to the 'reboot' request
[05:30] <zul> hey
[05:33] <Keybuk> lamont__: are you sure it's not just some dirt on your monitor?
[05:33] <ogra> heh
[05:33] <lamont__> Keybuk: link to _CVE_ :-)
[05:34] <Keybuk> lamont__: that's one of those silly dotted abbreviation wotsits
[05:34] <lamont__> heh
[05:34] <Keybuk> if you hover over it, it'll give you an incorrect definition of the abbr.
[05:45] <ogra> Keybuk, if i boot thin clients via PXE, they get an IP from the PXE request, etehreal and tcpdum show a second dhcp request during initramfs, is it possible to circumvent that ?
[05:46] <lamont__> ok.. there has to be a trivial way to say 'show me all the bugs in source package foo'
[05:46] <Keybuk> ogra: no, because the kernel interface won't be configured with the IP received from the PXE request, afaiui
[05:46] <ogra> hmm
[05:46] <Keybuk> the IP that PXE receives is only used by PXE to get the kernel and initrd
[05:46] <Keybuk> it doesn't get passed to Linux in any way
[05:47] <Keybuk> so when the initramfs loads the network card driver, it has to begin configuration again
[05:47] <ogra> would be really cool if we culd hand that to the kernel and get rid of the second attempt
[05:47] <Keybuk> sure, ask Intel for the source to PXE and modify it, and then hack on the kernel
[05:47] <ogra> probably PXE offers something in this regard ...
[05:47] <Keybuk> good luck :p
[05:47] <Keybuk> nope
[05:47] <ogra> damned
[05:47] <Keybuk> does it matter especially?
[05:48] <Keybuk> if PXE can get the IP, so can the kernel?
[05:48] <ogra> i'm not sure if it causes the nfsroot timeouts
[05:49] <ogra> i get the same IP twice in a row (which is fine and wanted) but i suspect the second attempt causes a race ...
[05:50] <ogra> that might be the reason why the sleep 3 in intramfs helped for breezy
[05:51] <Q-FUNK> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=348281
[05:51] <Ubugtu> Debian bug 348281 in gnome-screensaver gnome-screensaver/0.0.23-1.: "please add these Debian and Ubuntu floater variants" [wishlist,Open]
[05:51] <Q-FUNK> might be of use here too
[05:51] <Keybuk> \o/  my amd64 is ready to ship
[05:52] <Keybuk> but boo, I won't get it until after the sprint
[05:52] <ogra> Q-FUNK, i'm looking into it
[05:52] <ogra> Q-FUNK, i got your request already, screensaver is just not on top of my todo currently ... dont worry, i'll include it
[05:53] <Q-FUNK> ok
[05:53] <ogra> :)
[05:53] <ogra> nice work btw :)
[05:53] <Q-FUNK> ogra: I tried convincing the debian maintainer to just merge it and to enable xscreensaver hacks as well, to avoid a fork, but got no response.
[05:54] <Q-FUNK> at best, got someone on the debian gnome team saying that there's no way they'd merge the ubuntu circle variant
[05:54] <ogra> the way we handle (and will handle) screensaver hacks is through splitting the package, i doubt that will be accepted in debian
[05:54] <Q-FUNK> you mean xscreensaver-data ?
[05:55] <ogra> Q-FUNK, i like it, but indeed even if i implement it, i'm not the guy to 100% decide it, it gets my vote though
[05:55] <ogra> yup
[05:55] <Q-FUNK> that's not what I meant.
[05:55] <ogra> xscreensaver-adat will see a an additionyl split the next days
[05:55] <ogra> whoops
[05:56] <ogra> *data **additionally
[05:56] <Q-FUNK> gnome-screensaver has a compile option that enables it to directly read the xml configurations that come with each hack in xscreensaver-data, thus avoiding the need to duplicate them into .desktop files.
[05:56] <ogra> ah, yes, but upstream wants to drop that in favor of the .desktop files iirc
[05:57] <Q-FUNK> sad.  produces needless duplication then.
[05:57] <ogra> not if the hacks move to gnome-screensaver one day
[05:58] <Q-FUNK> that would require xscreensaver also switching to .desktop files
[05:59] <ogra> gnome-screensaver has a simple script that can generate the .desktop at build time ...
[05:59] <Q-FUNK> that's what I meant:  duplication of configs.
[05:59] <ogra> should be no issue to use it from rules ...
[06:01] <ogra> nope, if you have the hacks in g-s you dont need to install the xml files in the binary package, they are just used as source for the .desktop files
[06:01] <ogra> you could also try to convince jwz to switch to .desktop files :)
[06:02] <Q-FUNK> any hope of achieving it, now that it's the standard?
[06:02] <ogra> convincing jwz ?
[06:02] <Q-FUNK> or is jwz so hopelessly stubborn about the way he does things?
[06:03] <ogra> heh, he's known for that, yes :)
[06:03] <pitti> carlos: yay, my 3rd attempt of building breezy update packs worked :)
[06:03] <Q-FUNK> however, he's no djb or theo.
[06:03] <carlos> pitti: are you having problems?
[06:03] <carlos> oh
[06:03] <carlos> it worked
[06:03] <carlos> I missed that word :-P
[06:03] <carlos> pitti: cool!
[06:03] <carlos> so do we have new language packs?
[06:03] <pitti> carlos: the first two attempts failed because there were new packages
[06:04] <ogra> Q-FUNK, i think it would be a lot more convincing if there was a fredesktop.org spec
[06:04] <pitti> carlos: I'm building test debs now and test them on my breezy system
[06:04] <Q-FUNK> ogra: isn't there one?
[06:04] <ogra> so you could have a standard that applies to all desktops
[06:04] <carlos> seb128: dude, I know you are not the author but gnome-xchat rocks! I love the pop-up notifications!
[06:04] <ogra> i dont think so ..
[06:04] <pitti> carlos: if you want to test Spanish packs, I can build debs for you, too
[06:04] <carlos> pitti: yeah, it's a good way to test them...
[06:05] <ogra> Q-FUNK, at least it would be news to me if that moved from g-s to f.d.o
[06:05] <carlos> pitti: give me the URL as soon as you have it, please
[06:08] <Q-FUNK> ogra: afaik all apps that have to do with free DE are supposed to come with a .desktop file nowadays
[06:09] <ogra> hacks are not apps :)
[06:09] <ogra> the dont even reside in $PATH
[06:14] <Q-FUNK> they probably qualify
[06:15] <Q-FUNK> well, anyhow
[06:21] <seb128> carlos: thanks, I like the bubble too :)
[06:27] <pitti> carlos: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/langpacks/
[06:27] <pitti> carlos: ^ fresh breezy-updates langpacks
[06:28] <pitti> carlos: I need to go now and will test the German/English ones tonight
[06:28] <pitti> carlos: and upload the lot if your and my tests go well
[06:28] <carlos> pitti: cool thanks
[06:28] <carlos> ok
[06:29] <carlos> I will mail you with the confirmation that all seems to be ok
[06:29] <pitti> carlos: thank you
[07:13] <Diziet> doko: ping
[07:14] <doko> Diziet: pong
[07:14] <Diziet> I think I have made ff not use /usr/lib/mozilla.
[07:14] <doko> nice!
[07:14] <Diziet> You seemed to have some difficulty with libcknss ?
[07:14] <Diziet> I did what seemed like the obvious things and it seems to WFM.
[07:14] <janimo> are UVF exception syncs requested on ml (I see MOTU do this) or here?
[07:14] <Diziet> I have no /usr/lib/mozilla at all (no mozilla installed on that testbed) and ff works fine even with https.
[07:15] <Diziet> Is there some other test I should do ?
[07:15] <Diziet> I left the libnspr headers in /usr/include/mozilla.  I hope that's ok.
[07:15] <janimo> if the latter I'd like to ask for exo and thunar to be synced. kamion,mdz ping
[07:16] <mdz> those are universe packages; sync requests for universe packages should be coordinated with MOTU via dholbach
[07:16] <janimo> mdz, thanks. I hope they are not going to stay in uni for long :)
[07:17] <doko> Diziet: keeping the headers there makes libnspr-dev and libnss-dev conflict with mozilla-dev
[07:18] <doko> the firefox-nspr and firefox-nss pkgconfig files could be adapted to just reference /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox
[07:18] <Diziet> doko: Um.  What uses mozilla-dev and why doesn't mozilla use system nspr ?
[07:19] <Diziet> And the pkgconfig files should reference /usr/lib/firefox, not /usr/lib/mozilla-anything, surely ?  Because that's what's in /usr/lib.
[07:20] <Diziet> (Oh, bugger, this .pc file is wrong anyway.  So no upload today.)
[07:22] <doko> Diziet: well, if the mozilla- and firefox- nspr/nss were compatible, we would not need to care about it ... AFAIK nobody did want to invest if they were, or if the separate nspr nss source distributions would be an alternative
[07:22] <teuf> hi
[07:24] <Diziet> doko: Hmm.  The way we're doing this (the whole thing of shipping nspr from ff) assumes that they're compatible.
[07:24] <Diziet> Note that they have to be because an application might contain (i) something that embeds mozilla or ff and (ii) a plugin which depends (directly or indirectly) on nspr.
[07:25] <doko> AFAIK nobody did check this ...
[07:27] <Diziet> Well, I think my best answer is just to move the includes.  It's clearly wrong of the ff package to leave them there if the moz packages want that path.
[07:27] <doko> Diziet: forwarded you an email from Eric Dorland, debian maintainer
[07:28] <Diziet> Yers.
[07:28] <Diziet> These untested combinations are inevitably going to be assembled in an uncontrolled way at runtime, though, no matter what we do.
[07:29] <Diziet> It seemed better to have only one library providing a particular set of symbols and not to rely on a vague hope that you always get only one and always the right one ...
[07:29] <doko> at least for eclipse, I add /usr/lib/mozilla to the LD_LIBRARY_PATH, before running the binary
[07:31] <Diziet> Hmmm.  I really have to go RIGHT NOW.  Will you be around tomorrow ?  We can talk again then.
[07:34] <doko> at least next week :-)
[07:52] <poningru> thanks
[08:04] <zyga> will the cpu scailing work on k7 before dapper releases or is there some major kernel problem that prevents this?
[08:52] <Kamion> distro team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting in 8 minuts
[08:52] <Kamion> er, minutes :-)
[08:53] <Keybuk> "10 centons"
[08:53] <ogra_> bah
[08:54] <ogra_> galactica starts in germany on feb 2nd
[08:55] <Keybuk> "starts", or second season starts?
[08:55] <ogra> starts
[08:56] <Keybuk> ouch.  we were lucky, we got the first season even before the US because the UK satellite network paid for a large portion ofi t
[08:56] <ogra> we're a little late over here
[08:56] <Keybuk> but we got the second season after, started in January
[08:56] <pitti> Hi again
[08:56] <mdz> devel meeting in 5 minutes in #ubuntu-meeting
[09:01] <Burgwork> second season is damn good
[09:14] <Keybuk> while that's happening
[09:14] <Keybuk> I have a *great* bug
[09:14] <Keybuk> bug #4729
[09:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 4729 in alsa-driver: "blacklist em8300 in favour of ??" [Wishlist,Needs Info]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/4729
[09:15] <Keybuk> basically the guy has a sound card that only OSS can drive
[09:15] <Keybuk> and another one that ALSA can
[09:15] <Keybuk> so he gets both the ALSA driver for his ALSA card, and the OSS driver for his OSS card ...
[09:15] <Keybuk> which means the ALSA OSS emulation doesn't work, because OSS has /dev/dsp
[09:15] <Keybuk> (whew)
[09:16] <Lathiat> hah nice
[09:16] <Keybuk> and I don't see that disabling all OSS sound drivers is a solution here
[09:17] <Lathiat> indeed
[09:47] <pitti> carlos: still here?
[09:48] <carlos> pitti: hi
[09:48] <carlos> yes
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: thanks for testing
[09:48] <carlos> any problem on your side?
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: hm, I can't say right now that everything was from main
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: universe is sorted out automatically
[09:48] <carlos> pitti: ok
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: but I can quickly cobble together a script that checks that
[09:48] <pitti> carlos: no, german works just fine as well
[09:49] <pitti> carlos: OTOH I didn't find any string that was untranslated before and is now translated
[09:49] <pitti> carlos: so the bulk of the update might just be UTF-8 conversion, and thus no real advantage
[09:49] <carlos> pitti: it's just a sanity check, if you are busy, don't worry. If there is a problem there we will have a problem with soyuz....
[09:50] <carlos> pitti: the performance should be better
[09:50] <pitti> carlos: oh, I can easily add a print statement to it and run a dummy build again if it helps you
[09:50] <carlos> pitti: as glibc will not recode it on runtime
[09:50] <pitti> carlos: but if that is fine, I'll upload the lot
[09:50] <pitti> true
[09:51] <pitti> mdz: okay for you to upload a splash of breezy-updates langpacks?
[09:51] <pitti> mdz: ('to' == 'if I', of course)
[09:51] <mdz> pitti: sure
[09:54] <pitti> mdz: ok, I'll ping you after everything is uploaded
[10:11] <pitti> mdz: ok, all sources are in accepted/
[10:16] <pitti> mdz: (while you process these, maybe we can have a quick talk about the other -updates uploads which are bitrotting in accepted?)
[10:31] <mako> poningru: hey there
[10:57] <simira> have everyone in London gone to bed?
[10:58] <HrdwrBoB> yes
[10:58] <ogra> to disco ?
[10:58] <simira> :(
[10:58] <simira> I should too, then.
[10:58] <HrdwrBoB> Current timeThursday, January 26, 2006 at 9:58:26 PM
[10:58] <mdke> not me
[10:59] <mdke> i think you mean a different sort of "in London" tho
[10:59] <ogra> simira, tollef is out with infinity, thom and fabio iirc
[11:00] <simira> ogra: huh. Are you there? Will you give him some bad conscience from me? He shouldn't be out every night and work so much....
[11:00] <ogra> simira, nope, not there yet, but he said so when he left -meeting
[11:14] <siretart> slomo: I think malone 29243 can be closed now, no?
[11:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 29243 in xine-lib: "I can't updated libxine1c2" [Normal,In Progress]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/29243
[11:15] <slomo> siretart: nope... elmo doesn't answer my mail or does what i suggested there :(
[11:15] <siretart> slomo: oh :(
[11:16] <slomo> in theory it's a simple issue... libxine1c2 in universe, libxine-extracodecs in multiverse...
[11:17] <siretart> hm
[11:34] <shaya> infinity: you here?
[11:58] <cliebow> mdz:  couple of us are interested in the qa job ogra mentioned


[00:00] <IdleOne> you can try appealing the ban with the ircc.
[00:00] <smallfoot-> ircc?
[00:00] <IdleOne> !appeals > smallfoot-
[00:00] <smallfoot-> whats that
[00:00] <bazhang> check the link
[00:00] <smallfoot-> lol i need write an appeal and it will be court and judge who decide? LOL wut is tihs?? a court??
[00:01] <smallfoot-> just unban me lol
[00:01] <IdleOne> no.
[00:01] <smallfoot-> i dun even disagree with the ban
[00:01] <smallfoot-> i think its good that he ban me
[00:01] <smallfoot-> cuz i shudnt talk bout my little dick in #ubuntu
[00:01] <smallfoot-> cuz its not the place for it
[00:01] <IdleOne> Good, then it will stay.
[00:01] <bazhang> ...
[00:01] <smallfoot-> but that wus long ago, and now i want unban
[00:04] <IdleOne> my default ban message probably needed to be tweaked in this case
[00:04] <bazhang> hah
[00:04] <bazhang> he's now PM ing me to say it's all so unfair
[00:04] <IdleOne> it is unfair.
 ActionParsnip, vlc is evil.
[05:56] <capone> !test
[05:56] <capone> there
[05:56] <capone> see
[05:56] <capone> happy baz
[05:56] <capone> k im out
[05:57] <capone> lmao baz lies
[05:57] <capone> kk lol im out
[05:57] <capone> no hard feelings brah
[06:52] <capone> 1.freenode           ???Welcome to the home of the Ubuntu IRC Team operators | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam | Th>>
[06:52] <capone>   weechat            ???22:43:05 capone | there                                                                        ???
[06:52] <capone> 2.##333              ???22:43:07 capone | see                                                                          ???
[06:52] <capone> 3.#archlinux         ???22:43:09 capone | happy baz                                                                    ???
[06:52] <capone> 4.#archlinux-offtopic???22:43:13 capone | k im out                                                                     ???
[06:52] <capone> 5.texta              ???22:43:18    <-- | capone (~tls@unaffiliated/tls) has left #ubuntu-ops                          ???
[06:52] <capone> 6.#ubuntu-ops        ???22:43:42    --> | capone (~tls@unaffiliated/tls) has joined #ubuntu-ops                        ???
[06:52] <capone> 7.#lowendbox         ???22:43:42     -- | Topic for #ubuntu-ops is "Welcome to the home of the Ubuntu IRC Team         ???
[06:52] <capone>                      ???
[06:52] <capone> oops
[06:52] <capone> 16 Nine Inch Nails - The Big Come Down (Halo 22 - Beside You In Time)
[06:52] <capone> there
 ItsPriyank: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=setup+android+sdk+on+ubuntu
[06:53] <bazhang> that is so not good
[08:56] <suborbital> dont boot me
[08:56] <suborbital> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE-sS_1JQZI
[08:56] <suborbital> there
[08:56] <suborbital> ive said my peace
[10:46] <vivid> sure ill discuss interrupting your argument with some guy instead of helping a user
[10:47] <vivid> kick me....kick yourself, stay on task and dont abuse op?
[10:47] <ikonia> vivid: the discussion had ended, - I said enough, as someone else had stepped up to help
[10:47] <ikonia> I'd already warned you about comments
[10:47] <vivid> it had not ended..YOU were still going on
[10:47] <ikonia> you continued.
[10:47] <ikonia> you're welcome to rejoin if you can keep your comments to yourself
[10:47] <vivid> pff, youre still going
[10:47] <ikonia> no, I'm not
[10:47] <vivid> using op as your ticket out
[10:48] <ikonia> I've not spoken in the channel
[10:48] <vivid> bullshit, read the log
[10:48] <ikonia> pleas drop the language there is no need for it
[10:48] <vivid> youre a turd, read the log and kick yourself
[10:48] <ikonia> I'll ask you one last time, please stop with the language/name calling
[10:48] <ikonia> I appreciate the discussion shouldn't have continued, which is why I stopped it
[10:49] <ikonia> and stepped away from it.
[10:49] <vivid> is that so?
[10:49] <ikonia> yes.
[10:49] <vivid> shall i post how you were going on and on and on
[10:49] <vivid> and apparently now it ended because i said something about it?
[10:49] <ikonia> the channel is publicly logged there is no need.
[10:49] <vivid> so you kick me
[10:49] <vivid> so whats your point, you obviously cant keep a kick on me for that
[10:49] <vivid> i did nothing wrong
[10:49] <ikonia> no, someone else had stepped in to help him, after I told you the other person was not trolling
[10:50] <ikonia> you commented again, I said "enough" and you kept going,
[10:50] <vivid> oh, hes been trolling for the last hour
[10:50] <ikonia> I removed you and you where
[10:50] <ikonia> he's not trolling, he's just got a different view point
[10:50] <vivid> no, hes trolling all the way, and you were helping him along the way
[10:50] <ikonia> even though I don't agree with his approach or agrument, he's not trolling
[10:50] <vivid> hes been whining with arguments about how ubuntu sucks for an hour, how is that not trolling
[10:51] <vivid> dangling a line waiting for someone to bite, and you did
[10:51] <vivid> you bantered back and forth with him, i said something, you kick me?
[10:51] <vivid> please
[10:51] <ikonia> yes, he's been a little negative based on his experience, but he's also tried to proved reasonable help and set his own machine up correclty how he liked it
[10:52] <ikonia> you didn't "say something" you kept on with commments, and as I've said you're welcome to rejoin if you can please keep the comments out.
[10:52] <vivid> so you pursue an argument with him instead of helping someone, which i assume is why youre given op
[10:52] <vivid> to HELP not argue
[10:52] <vivid> you kept on with comments
[10:52] <vivid> so did he, and four other people
[10:52] <ikonia> actually, I'm trying to step back from helping people at the moment to allow others to contribute to the channel.
[10:52] <bazhang> lets move on vivid
[10:52] <ikonia> I stepping on that occasions because he was not offering sane advice in my view.
[10:52] <vivid> right, like kicking people that are telling you to stop arguing?
[10:53] <vivid> bazhang: you read the log..then ban me because im wicked
[10:53] <ikonia> you're not banned
[10:53] <vivid> does it matter? youre abusing power to make a point
[10:54] <ikonia> I'm sorry you feel that way
[10:54] <ikonia> as I've said 2 times, you're welcome to rejoin if you can keep the comments out
[10:54] <vivid> oh ive got nothing to offer the likes of you
[10:54] <ikonia> then please leave this channel then
[10:54] <ikonia> nothing more to discuss.
[10:54] <vivid> if i joined now, i would literally be as asenine as possible
[10:55] <ikonia> ok, then we are done. Bye.
[10:55] <vivid> you guys dont have op guidelines?
[10:55] <ikonia> yes.
[10:55] <vivid> because im certain that you are in the wrong
[10:55] <ikonia> would you like me to give you the process of how to appeal a kick ?
[10:55] <vivid> link please, id like to file a complaint with the IRC gods
[10:56] <ikonia> !appeal
[10:56] <ikonia> if you follow that process from steps 1 to end you'll get a resolution.
[10:56] <vivid> im not looking for op decision resolution
[10:56] <vivid> i want abuse of power
[10:57] <ikonia> if you follow that link and go through the process, you will be able to file a complaint
[10:57] <ikonia> follow the process from steps 1 to end
[10:57] <vivid> which is...utterly pointless
[10:57] <ikonia> then don't do it
[10:57] <ikonia> we are done
[10:58] <ikonia> vivid: if you don't need anything else, please leave the channel.
[10:58] <vivid> im not finished with my appeal process.  feel free to kick me
[10:58] <ikonia> you have the url yes ?
[18:20] <Myrtti> testbot is leaving soon
[18:21] <bkerensa> mmm
[18:21] <bkerensa> BluesKaj warned for Ridiculing and Provoking natsirt
[18:56] <Pricey> Hmm @<IP_ADDRESS>
[18:58] <Pricey> @btlogin
[18:58] <Pricey> Hmm, don't suppose someone could fix that for me? Wouldn't mind getting back in to the bantracker but I figure my hostname change 6 months ago borked it...
[18:59] <DJones> Something seems to be going on
[19:00] <DJones> Are the klines on the multiple nicks or the ip?
[19:33] <Unit193> Pricey: Did you happen to try @login first?
[19:34] <Pricey> Unit193: I remember how this thing works, honest. Thanks :)
[19:35] <Unit193> Didn{t mean to inply you didn{t, you have been using it longer after all. :)
[19:45] <Flannel> Pricey: If you remember your password (or have another method of authenticating with the bot), you can update your hostname yourself
[19:45] <Pricey> Unit193: Sorry I was being sarcastic, your suggestion worked perfectly thankyou :)
[19:50] <Pricey> Flannel: I guess its not needed, but thanks.
[20:37] <Unit193> Pricey: Heh, awesome!