[00:06] <daftykins> popey: lol you best update your records on me as "chap what has quite some hair"
[00:15] <diddledan> daftykins, hippieism is good for a geek :-p
[00:17] <daftykins> ooh i dunno!
[00:17] <daftykins> diddledan: sir check out the local rag - https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4j2iivt1j0urxc/IMG_20140812_224826.jpg
[01:03] <diddledan> can someone confirm that I'm not barmy? trying to login to ubuntu software centre via various methods such as "turn on recommendations" or "reinstall past purchases" I get an error from the single sign-on dialog that it gets a 404 from the ubuntu one server
[01:04] <diddledan> obviously "not barmy" is a bit of a misnomer because it's obvious that I am somewhat barmy
[01:07] <daftykins> ;D
[01:07] <daftykins> wish i could help sir but i don't think i can reproduce on windoze?
[01:07] <diddledan> hehe
[01:08] <diddledan> yeah I guess I should have highlighted the pre-requisite that you gotta be running ubuntu
[01:08] <diddledan> :-p
[01:09] <daftykins> i just figured we were the last two awake and i didn't want you to go unanswered ;_;
[01:09] <diddledan> aww, how kind of you ;-)
[01:09] <daftykins> ^_^
[01:10] <diddledan> I guess shauno might be around, but he's on os x usually
[01:10] <diddledan> mapps, ?
[01:10] <diddledan> other than that I guess all asleep
[01:11] <daftykins> tell you what, if you know any domains they're hitting i could try and check them?
[01:13] <diddledan> it goes to an oauth endpoint at https://one.ubuntu.com/oauth/sso-finished-so-get-tokens/my@email-address.com?some-random-query-variables
[01:13] <diddledan> I suppose I should point out that I genericated that a bit
[01:13] <daftykins> o rly
[01:13] <diddledan> speak of the devil
[01:13] <daftykins> apache 2.2.22 0o
[01:13] <diddledan> o_O
[01:13] <diddledan> wow
[01:14] <diddledan> aren't we supposed to be on 2.4 these days?
[01:16] <diddledan> aah 2.2.22 is from precise (12.04)
[01:16] <daftykins> D:
[01:16] <daftykins> diddledan: http://i.imgur.com/HgXazWT.jpg
[01:16] <diddledan> guess canonical aren't dogfooding :-p
[01:17] <diddledan> haha, was that a response to dogfooding?
[01:17] <shauno> "correct and correct"  (awake but don't use ubuntu on the desktop)
[01:18] <daftykins> diddledan: nah you said that after, here XD
[01:18] <daftykins> shauno: why ever not sir!?
[01:18] <daftykins> oh you don't
[01:18] <daftykins> don't mind me, i have too much Guinness in me
[01:18] <diddledan> hic
[01:18] <daftykins> ^
[01:18] <diddledan> no wait, that was you, not me
[01:19] <daftykins> it was an echo
[01:19] <diddledan> :-D
[02:13] <diddledan> I'm hungry
[03:58] <ur1caao> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8v-gM50QY0
[03:58] <ur1caao> wrong channel
[04:04] <diddledan> has anyone managed to get "desktop sharing" to work with a vnc client? I don't seem to get any redraws
[04:07] <diddledan> I figure it hasn't worked since composited X11 came along, which means years. why hasn't anyone actually fixed it yet or has nobody noticed that since 2012 it's been broken?
[04:18] <MartijnVdS> http://www.anandtech.com/show/8376/intel-disables-tsx-instructions-erratum-found-in-haswell-haswelleep-broadwelly
[04:18] <MartijnVdS> oops
[05:58] <DoloresUmbridge> morning
[06:18] <Guest60018> hu akk
[06:18] <Guest60018> ]all
[06:22] <mapps> hi all
[06:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:07] <foobarry> diddledan: x2go works for me for desktop sharing
[08:07] <foobarry> not exactly an answer to your qu. but its quite smooth
[08:32] <OERIAS> Is there a way for ubuntu to hide certain folders ?
[08:33] <nigelb> start the name with a .
[08:35] <DoloresUmbridge> that works for filenames too.
[08:55] <smittix> Morning
[08:59] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy International Lefthanders Day! :-D
[09:00] <foobarry> \o
[09:35] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:36] <DoloresUmbridge> hiya bigcalm
[09:46] <popey> yo
[09:55] <bigcalm> Happy new keyboard day :D
[09:59] <awilkins> Ooh, which keyboard?
[09:59] <bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00F1DOUXY/
[09:59]  * awilkins has an _old_ keyboard
[10:00] <awilkins> Holy toledo that's an expensive Cherry-keyboard-with-USB-hub
[10:01] <awilkins> Have an old one of these at work
[10:01] <awilkins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cherry-Quality-Action-Keyboard-G80-3000LSCGB-2/dp/B0041KJKAG
[10:01] <awilkins> Have a vintage Model M at home
[10:02] <bigcalm> I spend my life at the computer, decided  that it was worth the expense
[10:02] <awilkins> If it fails I'll try to get another or maybe shell out for a Unicomp
[10:02] <awilkins> Oh, quite
[10:02] <bigcalm> I have a Unicomp IBM Model M on my shelf now - it's what I was using prior to this one
[10:02] <awilkins> Decided a long time ago that screen, keyboard, mouse are the components that survive multiple computers and you may as well shell out for the best
[10:03] <awilkins> Would be interested to see how the Unicomp ones compare to the vintage ones
[10:03] <awilkins> Any reason why you switched to the Das?
[10:03] <awilkins> I love my model M
[10:03] <bigcalm> My fingers were getting tired
[10:03] <awilkins> I suppose the Cherry switches do have a lighter touch
[10:03] <awilkins> And a different click
[10:04] <bigcalm> Did some research on cherry mx switches and chose to go brown
[10:04] <awilkins> I think mine are blues
[10:04] <awilkins> I spilt smoothie in it the other day and had to pry off the caps
[10:04] <bigcalm> Yeah, my wife was getting fed up of the clicking
[10:04] <bigcalm> You can buy my Unicomp kb if you want ;)
[10:06] <bigcalm> Actually, I have 2. The company sent me a US layout 1st by mistake
[10:06] <bigcalm> THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
[10:06] <bigcalm> Oops :)
[10:16] <popey> bigcalm: ooh! you have a unicomp?
[10:23] <awilkins> Oh dear
[10:23] <awilkins> The new nvidia drivers appear to have brought a fun bug with them
[10:23] <bigcalm> popey: 2 :P
[10:24] <joshua__> Hey guys.
[10:24] <awilkins> My mouse pointer is stuck in the left-right resize form
[10:25] <awilkins> And now it can't escape from the right-hand monitpr
[10:25] <awilkins> Or click on things
[10:25] <joshua__> I want to cache DNS locally on some ubuntu servers, first hit should query the internal BIND dns server and then something like dnsmasq should cache the response for a set amount of time. Sounds sane?
[10:25] <awilkins> Ok, it was Spotify
[10:26] <awilkins> But an app shouldn't be able to trap your pointer like that <growls at the X server>
[10:26] <awilkins> joshua__, Doesn't this already happen?
[10:26] <bigcalm> Ooo, 5 red arrows just flew over
[10:26] <awilkins> joshua__, I know the desktop distribution runs dnsmasq and uses it to cache DNS hits out of the box
[10:27]  * awilkins fires up his server VM to check that too
[10:27] <joshua__> hmm, server doesn't seem to be doing that..
[10:28] <awilkins> Nope, isn't running dnsmasq
[10:29] <joshua__> So I setup dnsmasq to listen on <IP_ADDRESS> and in the config file put my upstream DNS servers to query?
[10:29] <joshua__> sorry, being lazy here really
[11:45] <smittix_> Hi all, have a bit of a problem. Currently trying UbuntuGnome and when I install the nvidia drivers it doesn't go past the encryption password input box. If I purge nvidia* everything works as it should.
[11:59] <Laney> why's everyone discovering the tuesday printing bug today?
[12:16] <popey> Laney: front of hackernews
[12:16] <popey> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8171956
[12:18] <foobarry> i used OOo for years on ubuntu every day
[12:18] <foobarry> now LO of course
[12:18] <foobarry> oh, old bugs
[12:20] <popey> [Wed Aug 13 13:19:53.332166 2014] [authz_core:error] [pid 9671:tid<PHONE_NUMBER>11328] [client <IP_ADDRESS>:33703] AH01630: client denied by server configuration: /var/www/
[12:20] <popey> bah!
[12:20] <popey> http://<IP_ADDRESS>/index.html 403... but it's owned by www-data ...
[12:22] <popey> \o/ fixored
[12:23]  * popey hugs stackoverflow
[12:23] <popey> especially when they have ubuntu screenshots in them ☻
[12:23] <popey> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18392741/apache2-ah01630-client-denied-by-server-configuration
[13:27] <Azelphur> Are there any remote desktop systems that don't suck? I tried splashtop but the package in the repositories is broken, nomachine works "great": https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Aug/Screenshot_2014-08-13-03-59-28.png, VNC is slow, x11rdp is a bitch to install and crashes on connection for me anyway xD
[13:42] <davmor2> Wow that makes a change, works with Windows mac and Linux http://www.zead.co.uk/default.asp?Page=14&Categories=1
[13:43] <foobarry> x2go WFM
[13:43] <davmor2> oh and better still http://zead.co.uk/docs/Z-200_User_Guide.pdf  linux (Ubuntu)
[13:44] <Azelphur> foobarry: sadly, no android client
[13:45] <foobarry> oh
[13:45] <foobarry> freenx ?
[13:45] <foobarry> nomachine should work with it
[13:45] <Azelphur> foobarry: I dunno, it might work if I could force it to only serve one machine
[13:45] <diddledan> I don't get it 'cos Ubuntu installs "desktop sharing" but it doesn't work
[13:45] <Azelphur> serve one monitor*
[13:46] <Azelphur> I need like, x11vnc -clip but faster :)
[13:47] <davmor2> Azelphur: splashtop maybe
[13:47] <Azelphur> davmor2: broken packages, managed to get it to install but it crashes on connect
[13:47] <davmor2> Azelphur: meh yeah I forgot about that
[13:48] <Azelphur> davmor2: the problem with the nomachine client is that it has no sane screen scaling, and in a multi monitor setup it's unusable
[14:12] <joshua__> Hey guys, am using dnsmasq on my servers to cache DNS, and have set upstream to be my bind DNS servers, which do not have dnsmasq. It looks like servers intermittently resolve OK, using dig for example, but more often then not, it looks like it only queries localhost and doesn't get the answer..
[15:39] <mapps> well
[15:39] <mapps> that was rubbish as expected
[15:39] <mapps> expendabls 2
[15:40] <diddledan> mapps, lol
[15:40] <diddledan> mapps, RED 2 was fun, however
[15:40] <mapps> i was considering watching the3rd so thought id better watch 2nd first
[15:40] <mapps> yea seen red2
[15:40] <daftykins> didn't even know there's a red sequel :O
[15:40] <mapps> i enjoyed purge 2 if you fancy a horror
[15:40] <mapps> first did suck tho
[15:42] <mapps> might go see the new apes film tonight.only because it sorange weds
[15:42] <mapps> might not also
[15:42] <mapps> :D
[15:42] <mapps> only film possibly worth seeing ..dont wanna ay to see inbetweeners 2 ugh
[16:31] <daftykins> mapps: how are you getting on with the edX course?
[17:16] <php_> hi everyone. why the hell my site sometimes can be seen only by some device and in other devices I've got an error that says "Account unavailable  Maybe account have been moved, deleted, suspended or not activated yet.  The requested resource could not be found but may be available again in the future."??
[17:17] <daftykins> php_: talk to your hosting provider
[17:17] <php_> oh! ok! thanks!
[17:18] <mapps> hhey daftykins
[17:18] <mapps> up to section 15 u done it all?
[17:18] <daftykins> nah been pretty occupied here and there
[17:18] <daftykins> on chapter 6 today, but it's all looking pretty easy so i've not written anything in ages now :>
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/0OiHe6d.jpg
[18:40] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: but in the final frontier I'm pretty sure it was god who punish Kirk and tried to kill him :)
[18:41] <davmor2> Surely he has that sign completely wrong :D
[19:01] <mapps> hm
[19:01] <rindolf> Hi all. Anyone around Cambridge, UK here? I'm here for a visit and we can meet for a drink or icecream.
[19:01] <mapps> waiting on 5 more things from amazon
[19:01] <mapps> working well that i put my sign #leave round gate' :D
[19:01] <mapps> dont get woken up
[19:01] <mapps> icecream? sweets are bad
[19:01] <mapps> :D
[19:04] <daftykins> seems legit
[19:04] <mapps> hewwo daftykins
[19:04] <daftykins> :>
[19:04] <mapps> :>
[19:51] <dwatkins> I'm lactose-intolerant, so ice cream is bad for me.
[19:51] <dwatkins> (I'm also not in Cambridge either, sorry)
[19:51] <daftykins> i'd hate to have that
[20:01] <mapps> o
[20:01] <mapps> have what
[20:01] <daftykins> lactose intolerance
[20:29] <rindolf> mapps: re icecream/sweets - see https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/491809376412266496
[21:05] <mapps> co
[23:36] <daftykins> just had yet another one of my classic "someone's signed up my email account as them" situations
[23:36] <daftykins> i've managed to track down the guy in Ohio, find his phone # and ask him what has been going on :>
[23:37] <daftykins> he told me he doesn't even HAVE an email address XD
[23:37] <ali1234> you rang him up?
[23:37] <daftykins> yep
[23:37] <diddledan> o_O
[23:37] <daftykins> politely, of course
[23:37] <ali1234> it's probably spammers
[23:37] <diddledan> how did you track him down?
[23:37] <ali1234> similar same?
[23:37] <ali1234> *name?
[23:38] <daftykins> i reset the password on the account for this website, which is legit... (farming related by the looks) then found a postal address then started googling
[23:38] <daftykins> actually i didn't even reset it, i got sent an email saying my new temporary password was...
[23:38] <daftykins> http://www.cargillag.com/
[23:38] <daftykins> 'tis from this :>
[23:39] <daftykins> so this company is a farmer produce selling contractor by the looks
[23:39] <ali1234> that's ... weird
[23:39] <daftykins> over skype he told me he'd just gone through renaming his farm or whatever
[23:39] <daftykins> and mentioned this company was helping with that process
[23:39] <daftykins> so i've just found his local rep and asked him by email to sort it out
[23:39] <daftykins> :D
[23:39] <ali1234> website doesn't work
[23:39] <daftykins> aaah, nothing like a good bit o' Sherlock'ing
[23:40] <daftykins> really? i'm on it :>
[23:40] <ali1234> this happened to me the other day, but the account was just a fake name and random username (like akjfdskjhgf or something)
[23:40] <daftykins> ah right
[23:40] <daftykins> basically my gmail is <first initial><surname>@
[23:40] <ali1234> so obviously someone trying to pump up their user count
[23:41] <daftykins> and i keep getting peeps like this guy with a different first name but same first initial
[23:41] <daftykins> last time was Deborah from Arizona
[23:41] <daftykins> she became a real pain in the ass, i was politely forwarding the emails to begin with once i found her work email
[23:41] <ali1234> yeah that happened to me one time and the guy posted in "that" part of craig's list
[23:41] <diddledan> daftykins, dkins@gmail? :-p
[23:41] <daftykins> contacted her employer and asked wtf
[23:42] <daftykins> she started buying office supplies and signing up my email, thinking i'd forward them to her work
[23:42] <daftykins> so what i did was login, cancel the order and move on :)
[23:42] <diddledan> lol
[23:42] <diddledan> haha
[23:42] <daftykins> one day i got an email saying "here's a copy of the email where you asked us to cancel the order..."
[23:42] <daftykins> 8D
[23:42] <daftykins> needless to say she has not done it since.
[23:43] <daftykins> so yeah, don't mess with the kins
[23:45] <daftykins> or i'll extremely subtly inconvenience you
[23:45] <diddledan> I had an american swear blind to me that subtle wasn't a real word
[23:46] <daftykins> i feel like a diddledan pun is coming...
[23:46] <diddledan> to be fair it was written down so he might have got confused with the spelign. I guess his version is suttel
[23:47] <daftykins> ah
[23:48] <diddledan> this was years ago on aol instant messagey thing though so he was probably a mormon
[23:52] <diddledan> http://www.hotforsecurity.com/blog/how-your-neighbours-cat-could-be-hacking-your-wifi-9888.html
[23:53] <daftykins> ;)
[23:54] <daftykins> seen the headline for that one already
[23:54] <diddledan> "Sure enough, Coco came home with a ton of data about nearby poorly-secured wireless networks – and a dead mouse."
[23:54] <daftykins> good lad!
[23:55] <daftykins> or lass
[23:55] <daftykins> i think my cat would cut me to ribbons if i tried to put something on her


[16:54] <yano> http://www.ohio.com/news/break-news/tornado-warning-interrupts-kiss-concert-in-ohio-1.707100?localLinksEnabled=false
[16:54] <jenni> [ Tornado warning interrupts KISS concert in Ohio - Break News - Ohio ] - https://bit.ly/2bA4YkB
[17:29] <yano> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/4zeez8/hell_has_frozen_over_linus_is_working_with_the/
[17:29] <jenni> [ Hell has frozen over, Linus is working with the dark side. : linux ] - https://bit.ly/2bAasM9


[12:17] <infinity> lamont : If you're planning on doing a -6.7 release (and hey, you won't see me complaining about someone else doing it), hold off, I need to test a ppc64 patch and get it in.
[12:18] <lamont__> infinity: targetting tonight late to start test builds
[12:19] <lamont__> as in, somewhere before 0500 UTC or so
[12:19] <infinity> Hrm, that'll be a tight squeeze, but I'll see what I can do.
[12:19] <infinity> Otherwise, I'll just have to followup with a release with one change. ;)
[12:21] <lamont__> well, mostly it's because I want to go to sleep... worst case, I'll dump doing the test builds and upload on you
[12:27] <infinity> Sleep?  Pfft.
[12:28] <lamont__> hehe

[12:29] <infinity> Can someone explain to me why onoffice.org2 has suddently started depending on a full build environment?
[12:30] <infinity> openoffice, too.
[12:31] <lamont__> because they will ruin your life
[12:32] <infinity> Seriously, a dist-upgrade on my laptop wants to install like 5 compilers and a bunch of dev libs.
[12:34] <lamont__> infinity: just wait - they're bootstrapping i386/amd64 biarch, which will churn things a bit
[12:39] <doko> infinity: openoffice? no
[12:56] <zul> lamont, : 686 built without a problem
[12:58] <lamont__> zul: coolness
[12:58] <zul> you can get from my arch to test if you wish
[02:00] <lamont> zul: OK.  But that'll be in several hours.
[02:05] <zul> morning
[02:07] <chmj> morning chuck
[02:20] <zul> morning charles
[05:21] <zul> so lively
[05:22] <zul> lamont: is the build going on?
[05:23] <lamont> zul: I went to bed, still waiting for jbailey and infinity
[05:24] <zul> okie dokie
[06:42] <zul> ummm...ok http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12739
[09:00] <jbailey> lamont: Oy.
[09:02] <jbailey> lamont: My patch seems to work so far.
[09:03] <jbailey> I need to do two more tests, and then do I hand it to you?
[09:32] <lamont> jbailey: yeah.  or you can commit it to the playground...
[09:32] <jbailey> lamont: Does that mean learning enough baz to do that?
[09:34] <lamont> hehe
[09:34] <lamont> just give me the patch
[09:35] <lamont> jbailey: oh - btw, how does mkinitrd decide what modules to put in the initrd it's building?
[09:35] <lamont> currently loaded modules? hw lists? what?
[09:35] <jbailey> in MODULES=dep mode, or MODULES=most ?
[09:35] <lamont> both
[09:40] <jbailey> Hmm.
[09:40] <jbailey> Excellent question.
[09:43] <jbailey> initramfs-tools is going to just walk the /sys tree on the local machine.
[09:43] <jbailey> most will just include a list of modules that I specify.
[09:46] <jbailey> lamont: Do you have a particular problem you're trying to solve?
[10:03] <lamont> answering a question for support types...
[10:04] <lamont> I think that answers the question
[10:27] <lamont> infinity: did you have kernel patches for me?
[10:27] <lamont> jbailey: so =most is really =dep + jbailey's list?
[10:28] <jbailey> On initramfs, yes.
[10:28] <jbailey> On initrd it seems to calculate it.  Following it involves following the rabbit through the file descriptor maze.
[10:29] <lamont> hehe
[10:32] <lamont> hoary (and sarge) use initrd, yes?
[10:32] <jbailey> Yes
[10:32] <lamont> was really just wondering if =most was a superset of =dep, or if it was "just this list, kthxbye"
[10:33] <lamont> for initrd :-(
[10:33] <jbailey> Oh. yes.
[10:33] <jbailey> That's an easier answer. =)
[10:34] <jbailey>                 most)
[10:34] <jbailey>                         add_modules_most
[10:34] <jbailey>                         add_modules_dep maybe
[10:34] <jbailey>                         ;;
[10:34] <jbailey>                 dep)
[10:34] <jbailey>                         add_modules_dep
[10:34] <jbailey>                         ;;
[10:34] <lamont> lol
[10:34] <lamont> btw, ext2_fs.h sucks
[10:35] <lamont> (debian, that is...)
[10:35] <lamont> the boot loader portion of palo still needs love.
[10:36] <lamont> jbailey: and "calculate" == ??  just wondering what sorts of things... 30000 ft handwaving answer is ok
[10:45] <jbailey> calculate?
[10:45] <jbailey> I don't see that in the script or the manpage.
 On initrd it seems to calculate it.  Following it involves following the rabbit through the file descriptor maze.
[10:53] <jbailey> add_modules_dep calculates the modules list somehow.
[10:53] <jbailey> But I don't see at a glance how it calculates it.
[10:53] <lamont> ok.  no hints on what it uses as inputs either, eh?
[10:53] <lamont> bummer
[11:01] <lamont> jbailey: initramfs-tools is for grub2, or just a simple dropin replacement/upgrade to initrd?
[11:01] <jbailey> replacement for initrd
[11:01] <lamont> woot
[11:01] <jbailey> This acpi patch I think is my last major blocker for making it default
[11:01] <lamont> nearly done? or what's the status?
[11:01] <lamont> ah, ok
[11:01] <jbailey> (I found a slight bug that I want to fix.  Will test again tomorrow since it takes a while to build)
[11:02] <lamont> that's the kernel patch you have for me?
[11:02] <lamont> or what's that status atm?
[11:50] <jbailey> lamont: No
[11:50] <jbailey> Yes, that's the patch I'm working on.
[11:50] <lamont> ok
[11:50] <jbailey> It doesn't support the old style initrd DSDT.
[11:50] <jbailey> It ought to, so it'll just be a slight bug.


[22:18] <mneptok> On to printing!
[22:18] <mneptok> This one is actually pretty easy. OpenPrinting.
[22:19] <mneptok> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/OpenPrinting
[22:19] <mneptok> OpenPrinting is a project to document the current status quo for printing from Free operating systems. The project was recently brought under the aegis of the Linux Foundation. Their printer database is the best resource for Free Software users looking to purchase a printer they can depend upon.
[22:19] <mneptok> http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi
[22:19] <mneptok> Determine your needs (e.g. laser vs inkjet, scanning, faxing). Create a short list from your favorite vendor (e.g. Amazon, Newegg, Best Buy). Then look up the models on your short list in the OpenPrinting database. Your choices will narrow, and eventually become clear to you.
[22:20] <mneptok> Other sites exist that provide a database of devices that work (or do not) in Ubuntu. One example is the Linux USB Device database, which catalogs USB devices and their current support status in Linux:
[22:21] <mneptok> http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/
[22:22] <mneptok> What about software? Of course, most Ubuntu users do not purchase much software, and instead use the Free Software offerings provided by the package system. If you find yourself considering a purchase of commercial software, ensure you know the vendor's position with regards to Free Software.
[22:22] <mneptok> In some cases, using an RPM (Red Hat Package Manager) based distribution may be preferable, as this is what the software vendor uses. In some cases (e.g. IBM's db2), Ubuntu may be a better choice as the software vendor has taken steps to ensure compatibility with Ubuntu.
[22:23] <mneptok> This is a good rule of thumb no matter what OS you use, be it Free Software or not. Know the product. Know the vendor's preferences for OS versions. Know your support options.
[22:24] <mneptok> What about buying Ubuntu? As many of you may know, Ubuntu is now being offered for purchase at Best Buy. Why would you pay for what you can download for free? Well, precisely because of those support options. Ubuntu is being offered at Best Buy by a company named Valusoft. Valusoft offers 60 days of *starter* support if you buy their CD at Best Buy.
[22:24] <mneptok> Let's be fair. Valusoft is not going to help you configure a multi-domain mail and web server. :) But they'll help you get things working as best as Ubuntu can on your hardware. They can answer basic questions about installation. Spending that US$20 may be a good idea for someone entirely new to Linux.
[22:25] <mneptok> Which brings me to other types of support. When you choose Free Software, if you need support, make sure you know what your options are. For instance, if you choose to pay for an entitlement to Red Hat Enterprise Linux, you may rest assured that Red Hat will provide you with support. If you choose Fedora or CentOS, you will need to rely upon either the user community or third-party expertise for support.
[22:26] <mneptok> Ubuntu falls somewhere in the middle. Like Fedora or CentOS, use of the software does not cost you. Neither does availaing yourself of the free community resources (e.g. IRC or the Ubuntu Forums). You may also purchase commercial support and consulting services from qualified third parties. Some of them are listed in the Ubuntu Marketplace:
[22:26] <mneptok> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/marketplace/
[22:26] <mneptok> However, you are also able to purchase support from the corporate entity that helps drive the project, namely Canonical. We have desktop and server contracts, and 9*5 and 24*7 contracts. Our contracts cover 10 cases or 1 year, whichever comes first. And we only guarantee support for packages in the Main repository. Other work is on a "best effort" basis.
[22:27] <mneptok> As an example, I am currently helping a customer sort out issues with the RealPlayer plugin for Firefox. It may be that "it's broken, and I can't help you further," is the final answer. But this would not be the case with the Totem plugin, which is in Main. However, I'm not going to hang up on a paying customer. I won't let him stand between me and customers with problems with supported packages, but I'll make the effort to help ...
[22:27] <mneptok> ... him.
[22:28] <mneptok> Also, Canonical support is not a consulting service. We offer break/fix support. So, "What is Apache and how do I configure it?" is not a support question. "I am running Apache and mod-mneptok reliably crashes the daemon. This is an Apache module you provide by default," will really set off the alarm bells in our office. :)
[22:29] <mneptok> Canonical support contracts are available in the Canoncial web shop at:
[22:29] <mneptok> http://shop.canonical.com
[22:29] <mneptok> WHEW! Didjya get all that?  :D
[22:29] <jcastro> time for questions?
[22:29] <mneptok> In conclusion:
[22:29] <mneptok> - Do research. Know what you're buying. Rely upon the experiences of other users to guide your buying decisions.
[22:30] <mneptok> - Do not expect to grab any old printer (or mp3 player or other device) and be guaranteed of a satisfactory experience in Linux.
[22:30] <mneptok> - Know your support options. Know what is supported.
[22:30] <mneptok> And finally, SPEAK UP! :) Tell vendors you use Ubuntu (or Red Hat or Fedora or NetBSD or SuSE). Tell them you make choices based on an OEMs commitment to providing support for Free Software users. Tell them Canonical (or Red Hat or Novell) has ways to help them get certified and working. Tell them it's time to be open!
[22:30] <mneptok> Thanks a lot for your attention! I hope this was somewhat helpful to everyone. Let's open the floor to questions! Jorge! Who's my first victim?!  >:)
[22:31] <jcastro> QUESTION: What happened with the recently Broadcom linux drivers?  http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php
[22:31] <mneptok> these drivers, like the nVidia drivers, are binary blobs.
[22:32] <jcastro> (just tell me "next" when you want another question)
[22:32] <mneptok> a user of these chipsets will face the same hurdles. you'll need to install Ubuntu, then use the wired connection to run updates and install restricted drivers.
[22:33] <mneptok> if you're OK with that, Broadcom's slightly more open attitude may be palatable to you.
[22:33] <mneptok> next q?
[22:33] <jcastro> QUESTION: Apart from the FSF database are there any other resources to find out which hardware works with  Free Software? So not just "works with Ubuntu", which doesn't say anything about blobs or proprietary  software.
[22:34] <mneptok> there's the OpenPrinting db for printers, and the USB Device DB for USB. i use these extensively.
[22:34] <mneptok> be aware, the FSF db will not list devices supported by blobs. so that may be a bit misleading as to "what works" and "what works with Free Software."
[22:35] <mneptok> that answer your question?
[22:35] <mneptok> (if so, next!) :)
[22:35] <jcastro> QUESTION: notwithstanding the fact that i love wikis, don't you think perhaps hardware compatibility might  deserve some more organized infrastructure? we have a "hardware compatibility report" utility currently in  Ubuntu, could that be expanded? If users were able (and encouraged by default) to give their hardware's
[22:35] <jcastro>  compatibility a "scoe" and comments, which would then end up on some public DB, hwhich other users could then  browse, could that
[22:35] <jcastro> not provide some good community buying advice?
[22:35] <jcastro> long question!
[22:35] <mneptok> that smells like LjL. hence, i will have to put on my Batgirl costume to answer ...
[22:36] <jcastro> heh, it is
[22:36] <LjL> :>
[22:36] <mneptok> i agree, a centralized database would be an excellent thing.
[22:37] <mneptok> i'd like to see such a thing for all Free Software variants. imagine checkboxes [x] Ubuntu || [x] Fedora || [ ] NetBSD
[22:37] <mneptok> the FSF runs something like this, but as i said, "what works" is sorta different than "what works with pure Free Software"
[22:38] <mneptok> i imagine most users want "what works," which is a choice i believe they are rightly entitled to make.
[22:38] <mneptok> so yes, such an idea has a lot of merit, IMO. perhaps we could start such a thing focused on Ubuntu, but expand it to embrace other communities.
[22:39] <mneptok> any more questions?
 what about the diference between madwifi and ndiswraper ...
[22:39] <mneptok> MadWifi is a project to reverse engineer drivers for Atheros chipsets.
[22:40] <mneptok> the drivers supplied by the MadWifi project are designed and built for Linux
[22:41] <mneptok> ndiswrapper is not a driver. it's a wrapper, or a layer, that acts between the Windows driver and the Linux kernel.
[22:41] <mneptok> when you use MadWifi drivers you are only using software designed for Linux. when you use ndiswrapper, you use a driver designed for Windows, with what amounts to a traffic cop standing between that driver and the Linux kernel.
[22:42] <mneptok> next q?
[22:42] <jcastro> QUESTION: which languages can I get Canonical support in? Can I call you up in Dutch?
[22:43] <mneptok> currently we officially offer support in English, French, Spanish, and German
[22:43] <mneptok> so yes, you can speak Deutsch. ;P
[22:44] <mneptok> (not Dutch) ;)
[22:44] <jcastro> QUESTION: Is Canonical approaching hardware manufacturers and encourage them to open their?
[22:44] <jcastro> I assume he means "drivers" at the end of that
[22:45] <mneptok> i can't say for sure what we're doing in that regard, because that touches on a part of Canonical's business that i do not work in directly.
[22:45] <mneptok> and if i did, i imagine i couldn;t say anything, anyway. ;)
[22:45] <jcastro> For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
[22:45] <jcastro> Someone asked about a wiki page for hardware support
[22:45] <mneptok> but here's my best assumption, based on what i know of the industry ...
[22:45] <jcastro> so I am putting that in there for reference
[22:46] <mneptok> say Mnep-O-Net makes wireless controllers.
[22:46] <mneptok> and they release only binary drivers for Windows. and those chipsets are in *everything*
[22:46] <mneptok> now, Canonical approaches this company and says, "You need to make Linux drivers available, or open your drivers."
[22:47] <mneptok> as CEO, i'd ask "why? what we're doing now seems to be working just fine."
[22:47] <mneptok> and what could Canonical say to that?
[22:47] <mneptok> (answer: "pretty please? sabdfl will take you on a jet ride. honest!")
[22:48] <mneptok> not compelling (although sabdfl looks great at 20K feet, man)
[22:48] <mneptok> BUT ...
[22:48] <mneptok> say Canonical approaches someone like ... hmmm .... Dell.
[22:49] <mneptok> and then it's Dell that asks, because they want to keep using the same supply chain for Linux models as they do for Windows models.
[22:49] <mneptok> now the Mnep-O-Net CEO asks "why?" and Dell says "because we'd like to keep buying 50 million units per year, if we can. if not, Intel over there has ....."
[22:50] <mneptok> my guess is that this is the approach our team is taking. i have no evidence to base this on, but it seems logical.
[22:50] <mneptok> make sense?
[22:50] <jcastro> QUESTION: Are there any other support options beside telephone (chat, remote desktop, ...)?
[22:51] <mneptok> we handle cases via phone and the web. we have a web support portal that allows customers to create and update cases, and analysts to repsond to them.
[22:51] <mneptok> we do not currently use IRC, IM, or other real time Internet methods.
[22:52] <mneptok> any more questions?
[22:52] <jcastro> time for one more!
[22:52] <mneptok> woohaa!
[22:53] <jcastro> wow, I guess you were so thorough that there are no more questions
[22:54] <mneptok> or people fled when they realized who i was :)
[22:54] <mneptok> well, thanks everyone!
[22:54] <charlie-tca> Good information. Thank you.
[22:54] <samgee> thanks mneptok
[22:54] <mneptok> i'm an IRC junkie. feel free to find me in Ubuntu channels.
[22:55] <mneptok> i may not reply right away (paying customers and all) but i will reply.
[22:55] <jcastro> ok thanks Kurt!
[22:55] <samgee> whoo, free support :)
[22:55] <jcastro> thanks everyone for joining in today
[22:55] <mneptok> thanks for a great OpenWeek Jorge!
[22:55] <jcastro> we have no sessions until 1500 tomorrow
[22:55] <jcastro> but people are more than welcome to hang out if they want
[22:56] <LjL> mneptok: that costume seems to have some sort of hole by the way
[22:56] <LjL> though i didn't want to interrupt you before
[22:56] <jcastro> ls -al
[22:56] <jcastro> oops
[22:56] <mneptok> LjL: "speed holes"


[06:12] <RyuKurisu[m]> 😃
[06:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] merger_libfm-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/merger_libfm-qt/749/
[07:06] <wxl[m]> Discourse dead again?
[08:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_screengrab just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_screengrab/785/
[08:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_liblxqt/106/
[08:56] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/687/
[08:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_liblxqt/599/
[08:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_liblxqt/375/
[08:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_liblxqt/599/
[08:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/687/
[08:57] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_liblxqt/600/
[09:17] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_liblxqt/376/
[09:18] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_liblxqt UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_liblxqt/107/
[09:22] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/687/
[09:43] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_libsysstat just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_libsysstat/582/
[10:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-about just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-about/105/
[10:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-admin just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-admin/351/
[10:14] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_compton-conf just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_compton-conf/327/
[10:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/364/
[10:25] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools/537/
[10:40] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-build-tools/314/
[10:40] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/577/
[10:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools/537/
[10:50] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/228/
[11:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-build-tools/100/
[11:11] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-build-tools/101/
[11:11] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/229/
[11:12] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-build-tools/538/
[11:21] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/365/
[11:21] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-build-tools UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-build-tools/315/
[11:36] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/577/
[12:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-policykit just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-policykit/581/
[12:33] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-policykit just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-policykit/581/
[13:09] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/615/
[13:20] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/131/
[13:35] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_obconf-qt just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_obconf-qt/108/
[13:39] <kc2bez[m]> <wxl[m] "Discourse dead again? "> It seems to be ok now and it was working earlier last night.
[13:51] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_obconf-qt just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_obconf-qt/109/
[14:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/615/
[14:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_obconf-qt just failed after succeeding: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_obconf-qt/591/
[14:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/131/
[14:32] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/615/
[14:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/377/
[15:42] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/377/
[16:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/631/
[16:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/136/
[16:29] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/388/
[17:06] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-config just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-config/688/
[17:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_screengrab just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_screengrab/786/
[17:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/389/
[17:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/137/
[17:10] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/632/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-about just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-about/106/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/230/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/578/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/616/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/132/
[17:26] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-admin FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-admin/352/
[17:45] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_compton-conf just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_compton-conf/328/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-archiver UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-archiver/365/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/378/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-policykit FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-policykit/581/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_lxqt-policykit just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_lxqt-policykit/582/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_obconf-qt just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_obconf-qt/110/
[17:46] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/616/
[17:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/632/
[17:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/137/
[17:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_obconf-qt just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_obconf-qt/592/
[17:47] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/389/
[18:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_pavucontrol-qt/617/
[18:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/133/
[18:01] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_pavucontrol-qt/379/
[18:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] focal_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/focal_stable_sddm/632/
[18:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_sddm/137/
[18:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_pavucontrol-qt/133/
[18:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_sddm UNSTABLE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_sddm/389/
[18:02] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/hirsute_stable_lxqt-archiver/231/
[18:11] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver FAILURE: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-archiver/579/
[18:27] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [Lubuntu CI] groovy_stable_lxqt-admin just succeeded after failing: https://ci.lubuntu.me/job/groovy_stable_lxqt-admin/353/
[19:33] -lugito:#lubuntu-devel- [rUPDATENOTIFIER47a3ae7fe31f: update manpages] hmollercl (Hans P. Möller) committed: https://phab.lubuntu.me/rUPDATENOTIFIER47a3ae7fe31f
 Hi! need some hep with lintian and groff-messages
 builds ok in groovy but in hirsute gives:
 W: lubuntu-update-notifier: groff-message usr/share/man/man1/lubuntu-upgrader.1.gz command exited with status 2: /usr/lib/man-db/zsoelim | /usr/lib/man-db/manconv -f UTF-8:ISO-8859-1 -t UTF-8//IGNORE | preconv -e UTF-8 | groff -mandoc -Z -rLL=117n -rLT=117n -wmac -Tutf8
 W: lubuntu-update-notifier: groff-message usr/share/man/man1/lubuntu-upgrader.1.gz troff: Signal 11 (core dumped)
 any ideas?
 @teward001 you are the master of lintian for me, any ideas? ^
[19:57] <tsimonq2> Check for a semver-based major version bump between the versions in Groovy and Focal.
[19:58] <tsimonq2> Find which source package groff-message is in and check its changelog. If you're really unsure, check the diff between the two versions using debdiff and pull-lp-source.
[19:58] <tsimonq2> Check if there's a newer version in Debian with the bugfix.
[19:59] <tsimonq2> Try to start a container and see if you can manually reproduce that.
[19:59] <tsimonq2> Git bisect the versions between to see where it starts coredumping, and maybe see if there's an upstream commit as well.
[20:00] <tsimonq2> I hope that gives you a few clues as to your next steps. If you have any questions about any of that I'll be happy to answer. :)
[20:02] <tsimonq2> Oh, and lastly, add some autopkgtests to l-u-n, so when a new version is introduced in the future, this is caught and fixed before it can migrate.
 @tsimonq2 thanks, it is lubuntu-update-notifier same code build in groovy and hirsute
 I'm trying to build t for hirsute and it gave that lintian warning
 it doesn't give much info the warning
[21:15] <wxl[m]> I think tsimonq2 may mean checking groff
 Mmmm, that make sense
 @tsimonq2 @wxl23 but after installing the package the manpage works ok. And nobody should run that from the commandline. I vote for a lintian override
[23:34] <wxl> hm
[23:37] <wxl> got any thoughts on this @teward001 or @RikMills ? i've never encountered anything like this
[23:41] <wxl> @HMollerCl just using the source manpage can you `nroff -t -e -mandoc /path/to/manpage.1` successfully?
 yes
 it's a very simple one https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/jDb6dBYYFW/
[23:44] <wxl> and if you use the `man` command here it works fine, too? https://lintian.debian.org/tags/groff-message.html
 you have a crash in there, with a coredump (re @HMollerCl: @teward001 you are the master of lintian for me, any ideas? ^)
 i've never encountered anything like that either, it SOUNDS like your build env exploded
 where's the source I can pull it and test it in my sbuilder
 here https://phab.lubuntu.me/source/lubuntu-update-notifier/ (re @teward001: where's the source I can pull it and test it in my sbuilder)
[23:45] <wxl> it looks to me like there's no warnings produced by having man display it either
[23:46] <wxl> that `nroff` command i gave is supposed to run it through `groff` so it should die there similarly
 I'm building in a lxd container
 I don't get how should I run than 'man' command, maybe it's my browser charset, but I see like: (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> and if you use the `man` command here it works fine, too? https://lintian.debian.org/tags/groff-message.html)
 LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 MANROFFSEQ='' MANWIDTH=80 \
     man --warnings -E UTF-8 -l -Tutf8 -Z <file> >/dev/null
[23:49] <wxl> yeah it's just some dumb display on their webinterface
 *runs the build in sbuild*
[23:50] <wxl> `LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 MANROFFSEQ='' MANWIDTH=80 man --warnings -E UTF-8 -l -Tutf8 -Z /path/to/file >/dev/null`
 wxl: no crash here when I run the sbuild
 no lintian warning? (re @teward001: wxl: no crash here when I run the sbuild)
[23:50] <wxl> maybe your container's groff is borked
 that appears to be. (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> maybe your container's groff is borked)
 in hirsute? (re @teward001: wxl: no crash here when I run the sbuild)
[23:51] <wxl> well i guess that's entirely possible but it may be just your container too
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zYDp638mdV/  <— build output
 one supprsesed (re @HMollerCl: no lintian warning?)
 full logs above
 > N: 1 tag overridden (1 warning)
 (my build runs ALWAYS have a sed that changes to 'groovy' from 'UNRELEASED' when test-building
 to avoid those chaoses.
 no lintian warning other than "1 tag overridden"
 in a groovy sbuild env
 (I use sbuild schroots for my build environments)
 (and not a direct container)
 that one's still running (re @HMollerCl: in hirsute?)
 standby
 i'm also running 12 other builds too
 for my own repos
 ERR:SLOW
[23:55] <wxl[m]> this is a `test`; don't mind me
[23:55] <wxl> this is also a `test` of sorts
 *salts wxl*
 hirsute-amd64 running now (re @HMollerCl: in hirsute?)
 🥁
[23:57]  * wxl[m] uploaded an image: 2021-02-14-155633_314x123_scrot.png (17KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/privacytools.io/YfCArRFgWnjSNRXCfuTgRxoj/2021-02-14-155633_314x123_scrot.png >
[23:57] <wxl[m]> Matrix's fun little Markdown formatting doesn't work from IRC
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gxS6h4MtBb/ hirsute build and linitan logs, no Lintian errors (except the note about 1 warning hidden because of lintian overrides) (re @HMollerCl: 🥁)
[23:57] <wxl> sounds like a potential poisoned container
[23:58] <wxl> or perhaps an older groff or something
 nope. never seen the like. but kde doesn't have that stuff, and anyway 99.9% of the time I use a ppa (re @lubuntu_bot: (irc) <wxl> got any thoughts on this @teward001 or @RikMills ? i've never encountered anything like this)
 thanks !! (re @teward001: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/gxS6h4MtBb/ hirsute-amd64 build and linitan logs, no Lintian errors (except the note about 1 warning hidden because of lintian overrides))
 > N: 1 hint overridden (1 warning)
 > N: 1 hint overridden (1 warning)
[23:58] <wxl> you don't have manpages, Rik? XD
 kde hardly has any
 yup.  the beauty of sbuild schroots for me is that they're always clean with the build deps, etc. (re @HMollerCl: thanks !!)
 so :P
[23:59] <wxl> that's… weird
 the ones it does, used to be added by debian in  packaging