[12:03] <mpathy> okay, i am outing me.. i made a e17 theme based on the kreski lines, which will come out in bundle with a window engine from tilman, who displays windows just as they where handdrawn, but in a blink of an eye ;)
[12:04] <mpathy> watch out for it.. but thats my only other project.. right now I want to do sth. for ubuntu.. ;)
[12:20] <mpathy> oh.. its midnight.. got to go! see ya
[12:21] <mpathy> bye
[12:21] <efbie> bye
[01:43] <volvoguy> howdy folks.
[01:43] <efbie> hello !
[01:43] <volvoguy> what's new in the magical world of ubuntu?
[01:44] <efbie> the princess has been kidnapped by a monster
[01:44] <volvoguy> crap. i hate when that happens. i'll go sharpen my sword.
[01:45] <efbie> :)
[01:45] <volvoguy> hmm... x-chat doesn't like to talk to Firefox, does it? i have to keep copy/pasting URLs manually.
[01:46] <efbie> yep
[01:46] <volvoguy> oh well.
[01:46] <volvoguy> so who's working on icons this week?
[01:46] <efbie> i did my homework
[01:46] <efbie> but i would like some feedback from andy
[01:47] <volvoguy> what are you working on specifically? just making bitmaps (png's) out of the SVGs?
[01:47] <efbie> no, new mime types
[01:47] <efbie> i posted in the mailing list
[01:47] <volvoguy> oh, cool. i noticed a few were missing.
[01:48] <efbie> a lot are still missing
[01:48] <volvoguy> i need to go grab your zip file. it won't overwrite anything will it?
[01:48] <efbie> i am trying some different style for code/text mime types
[01:48] <efbie> it will overwrite
[01:49] <efbie> just discards what's in "FS"
[01:49] <volvoguy> ok. i'll just make a "working" copy of andy's theme for now.
[01:49] <efbie> wait a minute
[01:49] <volvoguy> ok. :o)
[01:51] <volvoguy> efbie: so i can keep names straight, are you Fred? we really need a photo guide with everyone's pic and aliases in it. :o)
[01:51] <efbie> yes i'm fred :)
[01:52] <volvoguy> glad to meet you. :)
[01:52] <volvoguy> i'm apparently Aaron #1.
[01:52] <efbie> hehe :) me too, even if meeting on IRC isn't what we can really call a "meeting" :D
[01:53] <volvoguy> eh, it's better than all email interaction.
[01:53] <efbie> I'm uploading my modifications as a separate theme, so it'll be easier to compare :)
[01:54] <volvoguy> ok. just give me a URL and i'll grab it when it's ready.
[01:54] <efbie> www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-icons2.zip
[01:55] <volvoguy> got it.
[01:56] <volvoguy> are you creating the new icons in gimp or inkscape?
[01:56] <efbie> inkscape
[01:57] <volvoguy> k. just curious. there's only pngs in your zip file.
[01:57] <efbie> no there should be a "scalable" folder
[01:58] <efbie> if they aren't in there, they are in the mail
[01:58] <volvoguy> yeah, i'm sorry . i take that back. "less" didn't tell me everything that was in there.
[01:59] <volvoguy> ok. i'm going to go peek around and see how they look. :o)
[01:59] <efbie> :)
[01:59] <efbie> some icons are quite WIP
[01:59] <efbie> like the folders
[01:59] <volvoguy> ok
[02:00] <efbie> i was just trying alternatives to andy's folders
[02:00] <efbie> and this is the last version, but i don't like it so much.
[02:00] <volvoguy> yeah, that's cool. i'd definitely double-check with him on things as major as folders though.
[02:01] <efbie> that's why i'm waiting for him :)
[02:01] <volvoguy> the poor Aussie. i'm always heading to bed just when he's getting ready to work. :)
[02:01] <efbie> yeah....
[02:02] <efbie> it's quite the oposite of the world for me
[02:03] <volvoguy> can i just use a text editor to edit the index.theme file and give it a more meaningful name than humility2?
[02:03] <efbie> yep
[02:03] <volvoguy> k. thx.
[02:03] <efbie> i just did that a minute ago, wasn't too much inspired :D
[02:05] <efbie> volvoguy: where do you live ?
[02:05] <volvoguy> efbie: detroit, michigan, usa.
[02:06] <efbie> ok
[02:06] <volvoguy> you?
[02:06] <efbie> Belgium
[02:06] <volvoguy> cool. i love your chocolate. hehe. ;)
[02:07] <efbie> i heard detroit is where industrial music was invented is it right ?
[02:08] <volvoguy> i like your folder and archive icons. a bit more rustic than andrew's.
[02:08] <volvoguy> that's what i hear. i don't listen to much industrial though. i'm a guitar player - it puts me out of a job. ;)
[02:08] <efbie> lol
[02:10] <volvoguy> have any of you tried foresight linux? i was just over chatting with their art director, as our aesthetics seem to be similar. (only seen from screenshots though, their install disc seems to be broken ATM).
[02:10] <efbie> yep, i found andy's icon too "linspire like", but mine are too blurred and massive. It's a sad thing when the point of this theme was to look light
[02:10] <efbie> didn't even heard about it
[02:11] <volvoguy> foresight is probably loosely based on fedora, but it uses a new package manager called canary and is mostly used to showcase all the mono/beagle stuff.
[02:11] <efbie> ok
[02:12] <efbie> the screenshots don't tell much
[02:12] <volvoguy> the thing i like about andy's icons is that they seem to be a good compromise for the ubuntu and kubuntu crowds. we want to do as much sharing as possible.
[02:13] <efbie> that's a good idea
[02:13] <efbie> my folders in a kde env would look like a fist in the face :D
[02:14] <volvoguy> yeah. i'm not sure how that will work for overall themes, (i've only demoed the kubuntu live disc), but hopefully our group will do good enough work that the kubuntu folks will pick some of it up too.
[02:15] <efbie> yep
[02:16] <volvoguy> your different mime-type icons look good. i have a few txt, jar and deb files in my home directory that are just blank pieces of paper in andrews theme.
[02:17] <efbie> thanks
[02:17] <volvoguy> if you're going to be around, i expect Andrew to pop in in the next few hours.
[02:17] <efbie> ok
[02:18] <volvoguy> and on that note, i'm going to go find some food so i have the energy to stay up chatting later.
[02:18] <efbie> it's getting really late here...
[02:18] <efbie> so i'll not stay long
[02:18] <efbie> 15min max
[02:18] <volvoguy> no problem. do what you can - even ask questions if you have them and i'll tell andrew to look through the chat logs.
[02:19] <volvoguy> speak of the devil. ;-)
[02:19] <efbie> :)
[02:19] <AndyFitz> hey hey!
[02:20] <efbie> hi !
[02:20] <volvoguy> i'll quickly sum up... Andy and efbie need to talk about icons and Aaron needs to go eat dinner. i'll be back in a few.
[02:20] <AndyFitz> g'day efbie, how are you
[02:20] <AndyFitz> ciao aaron
[02:20] <volvoguy> see ya!
[02:20] <efbie> tired, it's 2h30 here :)
[02:20] <efbie> ++
[02:21] <AndyFitz> puch,  its 10:20am here
[02:21] <efbie> it would be difficult to have a greater hour delay :D
[02:22] <efbie> So, maybe you'll be interested in this : www.mentalwarp.com/~fred/divers/humility-icons2.zip
[02:22] <AndyFitz> yep  we're opposite sides of the world . sometimes I wish I was an insonmiac
[02:22] <efbie> luckily i am :)
[02:24] <efbie> i quickly made a separate theme to check differences
[02:24] <efbie> but the svg sources are in the mail
[02:27] <efbie> the folders icons are the fruits of unfinished experiments
[02:30] <AndyFitz> eep
[02:30] <AndyFitz> it sucks that we can't go down this path
[02:31] <efbie> ?
[02:31] <AndyFitz> firstly we need to use colours in the palette   ( we can pretty much make any shade / saturation by duplicating the shape and mixing with black white and grey with a semi transparent layer on top
[02:31] <efbie> ah ok
[02:31] <efbie> wasn't aware of this :)
[02:31] <AndyFitz> the brown folders  .  while suave and cool arent going to be able to match the theme.   that brown is too close to the base colour of the desktop background palette
[02:32] <AndyFitz> its all good :)
[02:32] <AndyFitz> heh  mark reviewed the stuff and said that the existing ( shinyish ) icons were too muted and brown
[02:33] <efbie> ok
[02:33] <AndyFitz> Im telling him we arent KDE  but we don't mind adding bling and brightening things up a bit.
[02:34] <efbie> yep, the document icons are nicely shiny :)
[02:34] <AndyFitz> it will be good to have a set that is really bright styled and mature enough to still be usable .    your icon is mature and usable  but lax the  kapow  ( I like it  but id like it in another theme not ubuntu-default
[02:35] <AndyFitz> http://andy.fitzsimon.com.au/palettesheet.svg
[02:35] <AndyFitz> score a copy of that .      it may seem too bright  .  but you can subtly add overlays of grey black or white to tone things
[02:36] <AndyFitz> it would be nice to keep the hex values in the svg matching those in the palette for future changes and derivatives to be done quickly
[02:37] <efbie> ok
[02:38] <efbie> i have a question :
[02:39] <efbie> there is about 52338 mime-types related to plain text documents
[02:39] <AndyFitz> we are professionals efbie, this is more serious of a product than a cornflakes box design
[02:39] <AndyFitz> :-)
[02:39] <efbie> but, if we want them all (and i want them all)
[02:40] <efbie> we need to make variations of a "base text-icon"
[02:40] <efbie> or something like that
[02:40] <efbie> the current icon with a pen is really nice, but we can't do any variation of it
[02:41] <AndyFitz> the gnome-fs-regular icon with the grey frame is probably the best to play with
[02:42] <efbie> ok
[02:42] <AndyFitz> I'll need to crank out alot more assets to play with then hopefully compositing tasks will be alot easier.  I don't want our graphical assets to restrict what we want to represent so please email me requests
[02:42] <efbie> ok
[02:44] <AndyFitz> sweet :)
[02:44] <efbie> i have another question
[02:45] <efbie> how much figurative and symbolic do you want the icons to be ?
[02:45] <AndyFitz> sure thing
[02:46] <AndyFitz> less symbolic and more figurative is the goal. but we will have to compromise when  objects just don't seem to suit
[02:47] <efbie> like the gnome-mime-text-x-patch.svg
[02:47] <efbie> i took the approach to show the code
[02:47] <efbie> but maybe it would have been better to draw a patch
[02:48] <efbie> a bandage or something
[02:49] <efbie> an "adhesive plaster" (with the help of google) :)
[02:49] <AndyFitz> sadly puns don't work for other cultures
[02:50] <efbie> ok. So the path i choosen is the right one ?
[02:50] <efbie> (jesus my english is sooo bad at this time of the day)
[02:50] <AndyFitz> I dig it .  like a log for a log-file.    it just wouldnt work in languages where log means thick wood stick and  computer log means  software record
[02:51] <efbie> ok
[02:52] <efbie> and is writing the extension in the icon a good or bad practice ?
[02:55] <AndyFitz> very bad
[02:56] <AndyFitz> in a perfect world file extensions neednt exist .
[02:56] <AndyFitz> a good example of this is ..    a html file is sometimes called a htm file
[02:56] <AndyFitz> but the mimetype is the same
[02:57] <efbie> ok
[02:57] <AndyFitz> so having either htm or html in the icon would be wrong for one or the other ( and we are using up the precious whitespace where we could otherwise be  visually describing what a web document is all about :-)
[02:58] <efbie> :)
[02:58] <AndyFitz>  I justify it to myself as [ more text = less pretty pictures  ]     [ more pretty pictures = more communicative imagery]
[02:58] <efbie> but we still need to find way to differenciate similar things with different extensions.
[02:59] <AndyFitz> yep ,  slight varations of colour    or get clever with the mime image
[02:59] <efbie> like currently there was one icon type for .png, .jpg, .gif
[02:59] <efbie> (my sentences make no sense, i'm aware of it :D )
[03:00] <efbie> i have a better understanding of the icon guidelines :)
[03:00] <AndyFitz> like for wave files an midi files this is simple .    use notes for midi  and wave pattern for wave files.     for   jpeg and giff this is also simple.   use only a few pixels for gif suggesting its a raster palette constricted lossy format .  and use gradients for jpeg suggesting its high colour
[03:01] <efbie> good ideas
[03:02] <efbie> tomorrow i'll add that to the wiki
[03:02] <AndyFitz> for those funky module  music things made on mod trackers we could have lots of little snippets of wave patterns.  for the rom files we could use the gnome-joystick icon  but use similar colour combinations to the nature of the consoles brand we are trying to emulate  ( purple for nintendo   ) blue for sega green for xbox etc
[03:02] <AndyFitz> that would be awesome, thankyou
[03:03] <efbie> what would be nice too, is a list of the icons that needs to be done, icons that are done, and icons in progress that needs reviews
[03:03] <efbie> in fact it is quite needed
[03:06] <AndyFitz> very much so
[03:06] <AndyFitz> we need a really simple way of showing that stuff is done / pending / not done
[03:08] <AndyFitz> I'll be able to put up a list of stuff.   where we can have 4 states  ,    completed, pixel cleanup needed, not done -composition needed, not done assets needed
[03:10] <efbie> maybe a "to be reviewed/ reviewed" stage would be nice, so that the pixel cleaning isn't done on bad icons
[03:10] <AndyFitz> yes good point
[03:12] <efbie> can i ask you to make a review of my  mimetypes iconset so that i know what's good, what's bad, etc... ?
[03:14] <efbie> don't be afraid to be harsh on critique :)
[03:15] <efbie> ok, time for me to sleep.
[03:15] <efbie> see you later !
[03:15] <AndyFitz> okay,  just a few quick points
[03:15] <AndyFitz> *we need to use the palette!
[03:15] <AndyFitz> *text in the text icons isnt a good idea   .not just for i18n  but because  things look cluttered.  and then the mimes become size specific to read the text properly  ( to be realisitc alot of the mimes  won't have pixel versions done because of the sheer amount of stuff we need to get through
[03:16] <AndyFitz> I did the illustrator icon.  but not the use of the name of the software.  remove that side thing and its rad. /
[03:17] <AndyFitz> the font icon is PERFECT! .  just make sure the text in the svg is subset   ( in inkscappe convert object to path )   otherwise machines without bitstream will view it differently
[03:17] <AndyFitz> also make the font text and handles a little bigger
[03:18] <AndyFitz> even ditch the lowercase a ( if we must to make it bigger and viewable at 22x22 )  but I think its a nice touch
[03:19] <AndyFitz> I've got some styled coffee cup assets for the java bytecode icon.   and id like to work on the jar image to sex-it-up   a little, if you don't mind)   .  id really like you to submitt what we don't use to the openclipar.org gallery
[03:20] <AndyFitz> the adobe icons arent cool.  we will get kicked in the head for publishing their name/ identity.   lets not risk it and be more symbolic with them
[03:20] <AndyFitz> thats about it !
[03:20] <AndyFitz> thanks for your help :D  thank
[03:21] <AndyFitz> oh wait.  the video icons.  are not to be put in the document icon.  ( videos arent displayed on a paper medium so why put them there ( its all HIG relelvant)
[03:21] <AndyFitz> rocking work tho !
[03:23] <AndyFitz> efbie,  I really appreciate your help.  it will be interesting to see your work develop as we continue this project
[03:23] <AndyFitz> night mate
[06:44] <AndyFit1> awww  yeaaaa
[01:26] <Starchild> hello?
[01:27] <Starchild> anybody home?
[01:45] <gothcat> hi
[03:59] <efbie> hi
[03:59] <efbie> I talked with Andy yesterday, and we updated the iconGuide to be more precise
[04:00] <kafeine> hi
[04:00] <kafeine> :)
[04:01] <kafeine> lemmeseeee
[04:01] <kafeine> ..
[04:03] <kafeine> i like it better now, yup :)
[04:22] <Nafallo> gothcat: don't forget to look ar the page in topic :-)
[04:22] <gothcat> Nafallo: ?
[04:22] <Nafallo> gothcat: /topic
[06:26] <Nafallo> gothcat thinks the boxes for archives should be closed if the files are not unpacked :-)
[06:27] <Nafallo> ^ talking about humility
[06:28] <ogra> heh, cool idea, but if you unpack a archive it gets a folder normally....
[06:28] <ogra> or a number of files
[06:30] <Nafallo> yea. I think the point is more like: it's an archive. that should be a closed box.
[06:31] <Nafallo> the idea I thought she meant could be a breezy+15 goal or something ;-)
[06:31] <ogra> heh


[00:28] <YukiNewbie> hello
[00:37] <tgm4883_laptop> !hi
[00:37] <Zinn> Hi $nick, how are you?  Something we can help you with today?
[00:40] <YukiNewbie> I need help with MythTV frontend
[00:41] <tgm4883_laptop> I gathered that
[00:41] <tgm4883_laptop> All errors are written back to a master database at mythbuntu.org with your username, ip address, and error
[00:41] <tgm4883_laptop> so for verification, what seems to be the problem
[00:42] <YukiNewbie> :) no upnp backend found and cannot login to database :(, Im new i just install this today and googling for couple hours
[00:42] <tgm4883_laptop> single system setup?
[00:42] <YukiNewbie> yes
[00:43] <tgm4883_laptop> what version?
[00:43] <YukiNewbie> ubuntu the new 1 8.0 something
[00:43] <tgm4883_laptop> 8.04?
[00:43] <YukiNewbie> yah
[00:43] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[00:44] <tgm4883_laptop> fire up MCC and do the mysql connection test
[00:44] <YukiNewbie> failure
[00:44] <YukiNewbie> everything on the is default
[00:44] <tgm4883_laptop> what is your mysql server address in the box?
[00:45] <YukiNewbie> mythtv, "password", mythconverg, localhost
[00:46] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[00:46] <tgm4883_laptop> lets check the password first
[00:46] <tgm4883_laptop> the password is kept at ~/.mythtv/mysql.txt
[00:46] <YukiNewbie> DBPassword=HMfrsQ0m
[00:46] <tgm4883_laptop> copy the password from that file and try again
[00:46] <YukiNewbie> its from there
[00:47] <tgm4883_laptop> did you copy that password into the password box in MCC?
[00:47] <tgm4883_laptop> and try again?
[00:47] <YukiNewbie> ok
[00:48] <YukiNewbie> HMfrsQ0m I copy and paste that said failure?
[00:48] <tgm4883_laptop> ok, so thats not our problem
[00:48] <YukiNewbie> I have a router do I need to open ports?
[00:48] <tgm4883_laptop> no
[00:48] <YukiNewbie> ok
[00:48] <tgm4883_laptop> During install, did you set a mysql root password?
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> nope eveything default
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> the only thing I did in terminal is this: cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ grep mythtv: /etc/group
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> mythtv:x:124:cr4ck5h07
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ sudo usermod -a -G mythtv cr4ck5h07
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> [sudo] password for cr4ck5h07:
[00:49] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ m ~/.mythtv -rf && rm /home/mythtv/.mythtv -rf
[00:50] <tgm4883_laptop> ?
[00:50] <YukiNewbie> from google
[00:50] <tgm4883_laptop> where did you get that from?
[00:51] <YukiNewbie> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MythTV/Install/Troubleshooting#head-75ded5e7682340f0a88f9ed6ec69a68b6a8b4162
[00:52] <tgm4883_laptop> ok, lets try this
[00:52] <YukiNewbie> k
[00:52] <tgm4883_laptop> in the terminal, do
[00:52] <YukiNewbie> k
[00:52] <tgm4883_laptop> mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg
[00:52] <tgm4883_laptop> when the password comes up, use the one from earlier
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> HMfrsQ0mcr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> Enter password:
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ HMfrsQ0m
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> bash: HMfrsQ0m: command not found
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ mysql -u mythtv -p mythconverg
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> Enter password:
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[00:54] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$
[00:55] <tgm4883_laptop> hmm
[00:55] <tgm4883_laptop> how about just
[00:55] <tgm4883_laptop> mysql -u root
[00:56] <YukiNewbie> ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)
[00:56] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[00:57] <tgm4883_laptop> what about
[00:57] <tgm4883_laptop> sudo /etc/init.d/mysql status
[00:57] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/mysql status
[00:57] <YukiNewbie> [sudo] password for cr4ck5h07:
[00:57] <YukiNewbie> sudo: /etc/init.d/mysql: command not found
[00:57] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$
[00:58] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[00:58] <tgm4883_laptop> how about
[00:58] <tgm4883_laptop> dpkg -l mysql-server
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> cr4ck5h07@c5l1nuxm4ch1n3:~$ dpkg -l mysql-server
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-f/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/t-aWait/T-pend
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> ||/ Name           Version        Description
[00:59] <YukiNewbie> +++-[00:59] <YukiNewbie> un  mysql-server   <none>         (no description available)
[00:59] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[00:59] <tgm4883_laptop> how about
[00:59] <tgm4883_laptop> dpkg -l mythtv-backend
[01:00] <YukiNewbie> un  mythtv-backend <none>         (no description available)
[01:00] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[01:00] <tgm4883_laptop> you installed with a mythbuntu 8.04 cd?
[01:01] <YukiNewbie> ubuntu 8.04 x86_64 I download today and went to mythbuntu website and installed the 1 click thing
[01:01] <tgm4883_laptop> ah
[01:02] <tgm4883_laptop> that explains alot
[01:02] <tgm4883_laptop> ok
[01:02] <tgm4883_laptop> this is what you need to do
[01:02] <tgm4883_laptop> fire up MCC
[01:02] <YukiNewbie> k
[01:03] <tgm4883_laptop> go to the "System Roles" section, and select both "Primary Backend" and "Frontend"
[01:03] <tgm4883_laptop> then click apply
[01:03] <tgm4883_laptop> That will download the necessary stuff that you need
[01:04] <YukiNewbie> :) still at 1 of 24 at 1931B/s would that take long
[01:05] <tgm4883_laptop> no ida
[01:05] <tgm4883_laptop> no idea
[01:05] <YukiNewbie> ty for help your awesome :)
[01:07] <tgm4883_laptop> np
[01:07] <frank23> what is the terminal command to see if lirc is working? (it shows the buttons pressed)
[01:10] <tgm4883_laptop> frank23, irw
[01:11] <frank23> tgm4883_laptop: thanks
[02:18] <defendguin> ive got a problem with mythtv.   all my icons on the menu have disappeared
[02:20] <wolv> have you tried picking another theme..
[02:20] <wolv> happened to me
[02:21] <wolv> picked another , then back to the original , it rebuilt the theme it seems,
[02:21] <wolv> I dont understand the particulars, yet,  but it worked for me
[02:22] <defendguin> i can't get to the menu to change themes
[02:23] <defendguin> wolv: is there a command line way to change themes?
[02:24] <wolv> sorry , I have just recently gotten into the programming of myth , I dont understand much of it yet
[02:24] <wolv> I have had it running for some time, but just recently had the time to learn whats making it tick
[02:26] <defendguin> its hard to change the theme without seeing whats going on
[02:27] <defendguin> i even tried uninstalling that theme and rebooting to see if it would pick a different theme
[02:29] <wolv> hmm
[02:48] <wolv> could be a permissions problem ?
[02:48] <wolv> but guessing your looked into that
[02:50] <defendguin> not really sure i didn't mess with any permissions
[02:51] <wolv> well,
[02:52] <wolv> I am sure there are a LOT of others here with a ton more knowledge
[02:52] <defendguin> mythfrontend -O Theme=themename  if you ever want to start up myth with a different theme
[02:53] <wolv> maybe something like imagmagic, or something that resizes pics that it uses to scale the themes?
[02:53] <wolv> might be messed up ?
[02:54] <wolv> I am completely taking a guess that it uses something liek that
[02:59] <defendguin> i have a few ideas let me confirm something
[03:01] <defendguin> i switched from the nvidia driver to the nv driver and that is why the opengl painter isn't working
[03:01] <wolv> ahh
[03:01] <defendguin> thats what happened i'm sure of it
[03:01] <hads> Well yeah
[03:01] <wolv> can tell myth to not render using the opengl
[03:02] <defendguin> yeah i'd rather get xorg.conf fixed
[03:23] <defendguin> whats the command to get dpkg to configure a package again
[03:31] <wolv> dpkg-reconfigure ?
[03:31] <wolv> dpkg-reconfigure <package name>
[03:52] <doje> superm1|away: heya, let me know when you're back
[03:52] <YukiNewbie> hello can anybody help me a quicky
[03:53] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, quicky eh? just my type... what is your question?
[03:54] <YukiNewbie> Cannot connect to master backend server -- is it running? Is the IP address for it in the setup program correct?
[03:54] <YukiNewbie> smallville is almost starting oh no hehehe
[03:54] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, you just finished the install?
[03:54] <YukiNewbie> yah
[03:55] <YukiNewbie> tgm4883 was helping me :)
[03:55] <foxbuntu> did you run through the backend setup?
[03:55] <YukiNewbie> i dont know
[03:55] <YukiNewbie> :(
[03:56] <foxbuntu> you need to setup the backend kfor anything to work
[03:56] <tgm4883_laptop> YukiNewbie, foxbuntu is the best.  He helped me with my initial setup.  Had me up in no time
[03:56] <foxbuntu> no no
[03:56] <foxbuntu> Im just a newb
[03:56] <tgm4883_laptop> He's very good at giving precise instructions to noobs like me
[03:56] <YukiNewbie> cool
[03:56] <tgm4883_laptop> foxbuntu, you are just being modest.
[03:56] <foxbuntu> !stab tgm4883_laptop
[03:56]  * Zinn stabs tgm4883_laptop with a rusty spork.
[03:56] <tgm4883_laptop> YukiNewbie, foxbuntu is one of the elite Mythbuntu Developers
[03:56] <foxbuntu> as is tgm4883_laptop
[03:56] <YukiNewbie> awesome
[03:56] <foxbuntu> :)
[03:57] <tgm4883_laptop> no, i'm just a noob myself
[03:57] <tgm4883_laptop> I run windows most of the time
[03:57] <foxbuntu> lol
[03:57] <foxbuntu> haha
[03:57] <YukiNewbie> hehe, umm so I guess i have install backend then hehehe
[03:57] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, no its already installed
[03:57] <foxbuntu> you just need to set it up
[03:58] <YukiNewbie> so what do I do to watch tv thats all i need
[03:58] <YukiNewbie> i have tv tuner that worked with my vista ultimate
[03:59] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, you need to setup the Network Config, Tuner, Data Sources, and Storage
[03:59] <foxbuntu> then you can watch tv
[03:59] <YukiNewbie> yah but it says thing when I click watch tv thingy "Cannot connect to master backend server -- is it running? Is the IP address for it in the setup program correct?"
[04:00] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, exactly
[04:00] <foxbuntu> thats the frontend trying to contact the backend
[04:01] <YukiNewbie> sorry I dunno its like rocket science my bad
[04:03] <foxbuntu> YukiNewbie, nope, if tgm4883_laptop can do it, anyone can
[04:03] <YukiNewbie> :)
[04:04] <YukiNewbie> he/she was like an expert when I talked to him/her
[04:06] <foxbuntu> He
[04:06] <foxbuntu> though some would consider him a her
[04:06] <foxbuntu> ;)
[04:06] <tgm4883_laptop> bah
[04:06] <tgm4883_laptop> her that mofo
[04:07] <tgm4883_laptop> YukiNewbie, this is what you need to do
[04:07] <tgm4883_laptop> follow the installation manual, if you have questions then, ask them here
[04:07] <tgm4883_laptop> !manual | YukiNewbie
[04:07] <Zinn> YukiNewbie: http://mythbuntu.org/installation_manual
[04:08] <YukiNewbie> ty
[04:46] <Dale> Hi all, I just installed mythbuntu on a machine I had lying around and for some reason the network card is not reconized anybody care to help me through this? (i am not extremely knowledgeable in linux)
[04:58] <wolv> whats the brand of nic
[05:00] <Dale> I am not exactly sure, but i just found a nother nic in my stash, so i am gong to try and switch it out and see if that solves this
[05:00] <Dale> do intel pro 100 normaly work?
[05:03] <Dale> switched to the intel and it works like a charm
[06:48] <superm1> doje, yea i'm here now
[07:07] <cann> morning
[07:09] <cann> so i never got the nova-s+ to work so i bought a sky star 2 (rev 2.6d) instead. but i dont get that to work either, it simply wont tune using scan , kaffeine or mythtv. anyone know if there is any patch or something out there ? running 2.6.24-19 latest v4l
[07:10] <cann> i can scan channels if i use a a "normal" decoder box like dreambox or whatever
[12:05] <directhex> are any statistics produced estimating the number of people who use the mythbuntu weekly repos?
[12:15] <Daviey> directhex: i could run through the logs, maybe awstats etc to generate some if you really want them
[12:16] <directhex> Daviey, i'm mainly curious
[12:16] <directhex> Daviey, i want to know how many hits a "major" third party repo gets
[12:16] <directhex> i'm tracking unique IPs pulling Packages.gz, per-arch
[12:18] <Daviey> directhex: I'll do that when i find 5 mins! :)
[12:18] <directhex> Daviey, neato!
[12:18] <directhex> Daviey, i'd ask the medibuntu people, but i suspect the number would be "one hundred beeeelion"
[12:20] <directhex> Daviey, some numbers for my repo at the foot of http://directhex.mfgames.com/hardy.html
[12:21] <Daviey> directhex: neat
[14:39] <superm1> well i'm not sure we have that kind of power on the US repo
[14:39] <superm1> i dont think i have acces to the logs
[14:40] <directhex> really? none at all? shame :/
[14:40] <directhex> also, AFTERNOON MARIO! 8D
[14:54] <Daviey> superm1: you can't see the apache logs?!
[14:55] <superm1> Daviey, k well lets see, ill try to look again - but i thought he had a mirroring system
[14:55] <superm1> Daviey, and the machine i connect to isn't the machine that actually runs apache
[14:55] <Daviey> oh'
[14:55] <superm1> what was the hostname again for the us site?.....
[14:55] <superm1> hum
[14:56] <Daviey> (lazy web)
[14:56] <Daviey> superm1: weeklybuilds.mythbuntu.org
[14:57] <superm1> yeah that's the host people see, not the one that i ssh into..
[15:00] <Daviey> oh yeah
[15:00] <Daviey> it's the ol' mythbuntu.org server, isn't it?
[15:00] <superm1> no it's not
[15:01] <Daviey> is this one of jumpkicks?
[15:01] <superm1> no, axel thimm's
[15:01] <superm1> okay i found my way in, and the logs are mirrored to this box too
[15:02] <superm1> but unfortunately
[15:02] <superm1> cd httpd/
[15:02] <superm1> -bash: cd: httpd/: Permission denied
[15:02] <Daviey> fedora?
[15:02] <superm1> i think probably RHEL
[15:03] <superm1> Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.2 (Tikanga)
[15:04] <directhex> hah @ logs without permissions :/
[15:05] <directhex> sounds like the only option is a php page to process logs O_o
[15:05] <superm1> logs directory is owned by root
[15:05] <superm1> so thinking still that wouldnt work
[15:07] <directhex> feh :|
[15:09] <Daviey> those crazy RHEL'ers
[15:11] <superm1> they probably think we do some weird/crazy stuff
[22:04] <hume> hi...I have a mythbuntu-installation, where I have installed a new nvidia-graphics card, but I have problems getting the res right. TV is panasonic TH-42PV80P, documentation says native res is 1024 x 768 (which is strange since it is a wide screen TV) - nvidia vard reads EDID and tries with 1240x1024 res, but it shows only part of the desktop - anypne can help configure this card correctly?
[22:10] <directhex> Daviey, did you extract any stats?
[22:42] <ubun2Junky> I´m looking to upgrading my mythbox so it´s HD compatible.  I´ve got a PVR-150 card right now...  I´m assuming I´m going to have to upgrade.  How about my graphics card?  Just wondering what other people have as far as a HD setup for myth?
[22:47] <directhex> graphics card sadly makes no odds in linux right now for hd
[22:47] <directhex> you're US based?
[23:03] <ubun2Junky> directhex, yup
[23:04] <directhex> should get away with it CPUwise then
[23:04] <directhex> planning on receiving your broadcasts how?
[23:07] <ubun2Junky> cable
[23:07] <ubun2Junky> so my pvr 150 will receive HD signals?
[23:08] <directhex> no.
[23:08] <directhex> analog or digital cable?
[23:08] <ubun2Junky> analog
[23:08] <ubun2Junky> I don´t have a cable box on my tv if that´s what you mean.
[23:09] <directhex> no idea then. yank tech is out of my comfort zome. ask #mythtv-users
[23:09] <hads> heh
[23:09]  * hads also
[23:10] <ubun2Junky> I´ve seen some hauppauge units like hvr-1250 just wondering if that´s the sort of tuner that I´ll have to upgrade my pvr-150 to?
[23:13] <tgm4883_laptop> ubun2Junky, something like the HVR-1600 would do you well
[23:13] <tgm4883_laptop> it's supported in 8.10
[23:14] <ubun2Junky> is that all I need to upgrade?
[23:15] <tgm4883_laptop> well being that all I know that you have is a PVR-150, I don't know
[23:15] <ubun2Junky> geforce 5600 video card for the output
[23:15] <ubun2Junky> running on a amd 2.5mhz with 500mb
[23:16] <ubun2Junky> I read that HD is processor intensive... so I´m also assuming that PC will need to get upgraded...
[23:17] <tgm4883_laptop> well the video card might do, the processor might do also.  Upgrade both of those would help
[23:17] <directhex> "HD" just means "video which is at least 720 pixels tall"
[23:17] <directhex> anything else is a per-case question
[23:17] <tgm4883_laptop> yes, that is very true
[23:18] <directhex> low bitrate 1280x720 mpeg2 will play on any old thing. high bitrate unsliced paff-encoded h264.....
[23:18] <directhex> at 1920x1080.....
[23:19] <ubun2Junky> if you wanted the higher resolution then you need better tuner, video and processor?
[23:19] <directhex> honestly i have no idea about analog hd cable. i simply can't help you on that topic
[23:20] <directhex> i don't know anythikng to receive that direct, off the top of my head, but frankly i don't give a toss about products which only help americans
[23:20] <ubun2Junky> directhex, you using cable then?
[23:20] <directhex> dvb-t
[23:20] <ubun2Junky> satellite...  gotcha.
[23:20] <directhex> which is what everyone in the world who isn't america uses instead of atsc, for digital over-the-air broadcast
[23:20] <directhex> satellite is dvb-s
[23:21] <ubun2Junky> woops...
[23:21] <ubun2Junky> where are you at?
[23:21] <directhex> check the hostmask.
[23:21] <ubun2Junky> nice...  common wealth nation!
[23:26] <hads> Haha h264 1080i is annoying yes.
[23:28] <ubun2Junky> has anyone tried this HDHomeRun?
[23:30] <superm1> yeah a bunch of us have one
[23:30] <superm1> quite nice toys
[23:31] <ubun2Junky> sounds pretty cool...  will it stream to vnc player?
[23:32] <superm1> vnc?
[23:32] <superm1> vnc doesn't support Xv, so usually video doesnt make sense to watch
[23:32] <superm1> but if you are meaning VLC, yeah you can stream to VLC
[23:32] <ubun2Junky> superm1, woops... yeah that´s what I meant
[23:34] <ubun2Junky> so if you´re getting regular tv cable without the need for a cable box is that what they refer to as QAM?
[23:35] <ubun2Junky> vs ATSC which is what you get with the rabbit ears?
[23:35] <superm1> QAM means digital unencrypted cable
[23:35] <superm1> you can get it without a cable box yes
[23:35] <superm1> if your HDTV supports QAM, you can go do a scan and see what you would get with it
[23:35] <superm1> ATSC is  the OTA variant of digital TV
[23:35] <ubun2Junky> what I get with comcast for $12 a month!
[23:36] <superm1> well it's only the unencrypted stations
[23:36] <superm1> so you'll have to see how many are actually unencrypted
[23:37] <ubun2Junky> so currently I´m also viewing encrypted channels?  But with the HD switch they´ll be encrypted?
[23:39] <ubun2Junky> homerun sites says at my location I can get 23 programs with digital antenna and 88 programs with digital cable.
[23:39] <tgm4883_laptop> digital switch
[23:39] <tgm4883_laptop> not HD switch
[23:39] <tgm4883_laptop> there is a difference
[23:40] <ubun2Junky> so this says that without the cable box!  I will get 23 programs...  if I purchase digital cable from comcast I will get 88 programs?  Sry really newbie here on this subject!
[23:41] <superm1> ubun2Junky, well do you have a high def TV right now?  or at least a TV that supports digital TV?
[23:41] <superm1> you can do an experiment and see what you'll get
[23:41] <ubun2Junky> I have HD tv, but nothing that will push a HD signal to it.
[23:42] <tgm4883_laptop> tv model number?
[23:42] <hads> I'm guessing he is refering to a digital tuner.
[23:43] <ubun2Junky> samsung 32"series 5 lcd
[23:44] <ubun2Junky> instructions say that I have ntsc, atsc, qam tuner
[23:44] <tgm4883_laptop> theres the info we're looking for
[23:45] <tgm4883_laptop> so you can use your TV to see what channels the HDHomerun would get
[23:45] <ubun2Junky> I´m just trying to make sense of what those abbreviations mean...
[23:45] <tgm4883_laptop> well superm1 did tell you earlier
[23:45] <tgm4883_laptop> approx 10 minutes ago
[23:45] <ubun2Junky> yes he did...  it really helped...
[23:46] <tgm4883_laptop> so then hook your cable up to your TV and scan for channels
[23:46] <ubun2Junky> so ntsc is what is eventually going away?
[23:48] <ubun2Junky> cool... thx for you´re help guys...  I think I can better understand what I´m reading now!  I´ll give this another try.
[23:55] <hanfm> hello, when i enter http://<IP_ADDRESS>/mythweb/tv to upload files via mythweb i got this: http://mythbuntu.pastebin.com/d963115a
[23:55] <hanfm> whats the matter for that?
[23:55] <directhex> is your backend configured properly? do you have any channels set up?
[23:56] <hanfm> ahh no i didnt set up channels, i dont have a tuner/tv card
[23:56] <hanfm> backend is configeres
[23:56] <hanfm> d
[23:56] <directhex> then why are you trying to go to the /tv address?
[23:57] <directhex> /tv shows you your listing data
[23:57] <hanfm> oh, i thought...
[23:57] <hanfm> where can i upload video files?
[23:57] <hads> Huh, what do you upload files for?
[23:57] <hads> Oh video files, you wouldn't upload those.
[23:58] <hanfm> what should i do?
[23:58] <tgm4883_laptop> what exactly are you trying to do?
[23:58] <tgm4883_laptop> or should I guess?
[23:58] <hads> :)
[23:59] <hanfm> i want to get a video file on my frontend/backend
[23:59] <hads> Put it on the disk.
[23:59] <tgm4883_laptop> Like a movie?
[23:59] <hanfm> yes
[23:59] <tgm4883_laptop> well stick the movie in your mythvideo directory
[23:59] <hanfm> via smb?


[00:09] <develop> thnks
[00:36] <develop> ec2ubuntu-build-ami seems to need AWS_USER_ID is this the email i use to login cannot see onsecurity credential page
[00:38] <develop> sry got it at the bottom aws account id
[00:41] <develop> wha is --codename
[03:09] <erichammond> develop: --codename hardy
[10:48] <japey> hello
[10:50] <japey> I wanted to know if there were people who were using Ubuntu as a virtual office with ec2? and if it came dear.
[10:51] <japey> According to my calculations, you must have 35 - $ 40 per month?According to my calculations, you must have 35 - $ 40 per month?
[18:16] <trifon> erichammond: ping
[22:20] <japey> hello


[00:24]  * flyback gives in to the headache and goes to bed
[01:46] <tim> I can't mount a usb drive that works on another linux machine
[01:50] <favro> are ther errors returned?
[01:50] <tim> not from fdisk
[01:50] <tim> but dmesg gives:
[01:50] <tim> usb 2-2: device descriptor read/64, error -110
[01:51] <tim> after a bit
[01:53] <favro> hmmm if you use the -v option with mount what does it return?
[01:55] <tim> mount what? theres only sda* and sdb* the internal drives
[01:56] <favro> the usb drive isn't listed in fdisk at all?
[01:56] <tim> nope
[01:57] <favro> tried it in a diff usb port?
[01:57] <tim> yep
[02:00] <favro> if it works on another comp it prob is your h/ware
[02:00] <tim> but I have lots of other thumb drives and sd cards that work
[03:19] <nclife> hey. I have this keyboard configuration problem, I have another keyboard layout and would like to change it. How can I do that?
[03:20] <favro> !keyboard
[03:24] <nclife> thankyou
[03:30] <nclife> what
[03:30] <nclife> 's a good cl text editor
[03:31] <nclife> I don't remembe any
[03:32] <nclife> ah, nano was one
[03:37] <nclife> sweet, it worked.
[03:44] <Odd-rationale> nclife: a more powerfull text editor is vim
[03:45] <nclife> yeah, that's the one I knew how to use
[03:45] <nclife> thanks
[03:47] <phayz> is there much difference between a minimal ubuntu install, to which xfce4 is added, and xubuntu?  in terms of how things work?
[03:48] <phayz> i've taken the first option but am finding that a few things don't see to work as they should
[03:49] <Odd-rationale> phayz: did you install xfce4 or xubuntu-desktop?
[03:49] <phayz> Odd-rationale: i installed xfce4, not xubuntu-desktop, because i wanted to be able to choose my own apps individually
[03:50] <Odd-rationale> phayz: ok. what doesn't work?
[03:50] <phayz> for example, i find that the services manager doesn't work - the unlock button is grayed/greyed out
[03:51] <Odd-rationale> phayz: what service manager?
[03:51] <cody-somerville> phayz, You need to install policykit
[03:51] <phayz> Odd-rationale: dang! i can't remember its name right now
[03:52] <phayz> cody-somerville: THE cody-somerville!  wow!
[03:52] <Odd-rationale> yeah, i was thinking it was a polciykit issue...
[03:52] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: I could not duplicate the partitioning problem
[03:52] <charlie-tca> Perhaps operator error was involved :(
[03:52] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, Whats the date on the image you're testing btw?
[03:52] <cody-somerville> phayz, what does that mean? :)
[03:52] <charlie-tca> 2008-09-30
[03:53] <phayz> how the heck did a services manager application come to be named "bum"!?  :P
[03:53] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, can you help test the beta candidate?
[03:53] <charlie-tca> Yes, where is it?
[03:53] <phayz> cody-somerville: aren't you one of the lead developers of xubuntu? (possibly THE lead)
[03:53] <Odd-rationale> xubuntu hug day is tomorrow? or has it already started for you?
[03:54] <charlie-tca> Odd-rationale: xubuntu hug day is tomorrow
[03:54] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, 10-01 is the candidate
[03:54] <cody-somerville> charlie-tca, so the current "current"
[03:54] <Odd-rationale> charlie-tca: yeah, for me it is... i though that you might be in a different time zone...
[03:54] <Odd-rationale> :P
[03:54] <charlie-tca> Then I have the alternate, and will go get the live cd now and test both tonight
[03:54]  * cody-somerville notes that the candidate needs to be tested *now* if we're going to release a beta :P
[03:55] <phayz> what's the date of xubuntu hug day?
[03:55] <Odd-rationale> i won't be able to help, unfortunately. as i have loads of studies to do...
[03:55] <Odd-rationale> phayz: oct 2
[03:55] <charlie-tca> I downloaded the alternate earlier, so I'll run it while downloading the live cd
[03:55] <phayz> cool! that's today - local date in australia
[03:55] <phayz> who am i supposed to hug?
[03:56]  * cody-somerville notes that he is 4 minutes away from oct 2nd :)
[03:56] <Odd-rationale> phayz: http://cody.zapto.org/?p=45
[03:56] <phayz> 12:56 local time
[03:57] <charlie-tca> phayz, the list is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20081002
[03:57] <charlie-tca> Get em while they are available!
[03:57] <phayz> charlie-tca: thanks
[04:00] <phayz> "the lord giveth and the lord taketh away" (op status) :P
[04:01] <cody-somerville> ;]
[04:01]  * cody-somerville is burning beta live cd.
[04:03] <phayz> ...and sending a copy to australia?
[04:04] <cody-somerville> hehe
[04:07] <phayz> is the xubuntu beta available on an ftp site somewhere?  (dang!  i can't type properly)
[04:08] <charlie-tca> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ is the one we are testing for release
[04:11] <phayz> is there a simple way of getting a wiki page nicely formatted for printing?
[04:12] <cody-somerville> which wiki?
[04:13] <phayz> the ubuntu one.  i'm reading a bugsquad page and want to read it on the train (in paper form)
[04:13] <cody-somerville> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20081002?action=print
[04:14] <phayz> thanks!  that's exactly what i was looking for.  please don't tell me there's such a link on each page :(
[04:16]  * charlie-tca charlie needs to get a second monitor
[04:18] <phayz> is xubuntu likely to run acceptably on a laptop with only 32 mb memory?
[04:19] <charlie-tca> phayz: I don't think so. I run it on an old PII 400MHz cpu with 256 mb Ram and it is slow
[04:19] <charlie-tca> The install using the alternate takes me about 1 and 1/2 hours
[04:20] <phayz> charlie-tca: thanks.  it runs win 98 and i'd hoped for an alternative
[04:22] <charlie-tca> Maybe DSL? I think it will run on it
[04:23] <charlie-tca> You could check their website at http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
[04:31] <phayz> charlie-tca: thanks.  i think i'll try a distro named "slitaz".  that goodness this is not my main pc :)
[04:31] <phayz> *thank* goodness
[04:33] <charlie-tca> np
[05:48] <charlie-tca> cody-somerville: tested the Alternate-cd. We no longer have help. clicking on help on the
[05:48]  * cody-somerville nods.
[05:48] <cody-somerville> Known issue :)
[05:49] <charlie-tca> Also, quick search in synaptic Package Manager failed again.
[05:49] <charlie-tca> Searched on gedit, nothing.  Let's see how many we can work.
[08:38] <dmh65> can anyone get a google site?
[08:40] <mirex> I can
[08:40] <dmh65> hmmm, must be my end
[08:40] <mirex> try downforeveryoneorjustme.com
[08:41] <dmh65> :)
[08:41] <mirex> really, its a good testing tool
[08:42] <dmh65> yeah, thanks, it's just me :)
[08:42] <dmh65> anything to do with google
[08:42] <dmh65> bizzare
[09:30] <dmh65> this is wierd, I cannot connect to anything google, linux or windows?
[09:30] <dmh65> its like they have banned me :)
[09:31] <dmh65> I know I complained about all the associated press stuff on my news page the other day but...
[09:31] <dmh65> :)
[09:34] <Myrtti> your dns has gone awry
[09:38] <mirex> dmh65: contact your internet provider, he should check your dns
[09:39] <mirex> or to test it: got to webpage <IP_ADDRESS> if it opens a google web for you
[09:39] <Natenjo> hey guyes Ive installed konquoror and i want to make it to my default file manager...how do i do this??
[09:56] <Natenjo> plz still answer the question from Natenjo^^ i just had to switch pc's
[10:04] <mirex> dunno, but try googling.
[10:04] <mirex> http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/nonautilusplease
[10:04] <mirex> http://www.google.com/search?q=xubuntu+how+to+change+default+file+manager
[10:05] <Natenjo> thx I'll have a look it it..i just googled i german and disnt find anything usefull :P
[10:29] <verme> hi
[10:30] <verme> any xubuntu user wants to be a beta tester?
[10:30] <verme> thanks in advance ^^
[10:33] <cody-somerville> \o/
[10:34] <gabkdlly> I am planning to do some beta testing today, as soon as I get done backing up
[10:35] <gabkdlly> we should have a link to isos in the subject
[10:35] <verme> i refer to an application i'm developing...
[10:36] <verme> it is an application that runs in ubuntu but do not runs in xubuntu
[10:36] <mirex> what does the application do ?
[10:37] <verme> ARAS
[10:43] <verme> hum
[12:03] <spaceninja> can xubuntu play flash without the use of ugly hacks?
[12:04] <knome> spaceninja, ugly hacks?
[12:04] <spaceninja> yes, clean code, no code bloat :)
[12:04] <knome> eh...
[12:05] <spaceninja> forgot to add x86_64
[12:05] <knome> spaceninja, you can choose between (mozilla-plugin-)gnash (free) and flashplugin-nonfree (adobe)
[12:05] <TheSheep> spaceninja: no, flash player is one big code bloat, it's closed source and written by adobe, so no help heree
[12:06] <knome> TheSheep, there is gnash ;)
[12:06] <TheSheep> knome: but doesn't play most of ugly hacks made by so clled web developers
[12:06] <knome> sure, but plays something at least
[12:07] <TheSheep> Teh Intarweb is infested with ugly hacks
[12:07] <knome> TheSheep, + don't scorch *all* the web developers
[12:07] <TheSheep> knome: why not?
[12:07] <spaceninja> does xubuntu use ubuntu's repos'?
[12:07] <knome> spaceninja, yes
[12:07] <knome> TheSheep, because i, for example, am a web developer and i don't do ugly hacks
[12:08] <spaceninja> do you use javascripts?
[12:08] <knome> spaceninja, ajax, yes, obstrustive javascript, no
[12:08] <knome> -t
[12:08] <spaceninja> knome: heard of jquery?
[12:09] <knome> spaceninja, nope
[12:09] <spaceninja> I have, sounds good, but I haven't tried it
[12:09] <knome> i try to avoid using ajax if i don't need to
[12:09] <spaceninja> ok
[12:10] <spaceninja> would you say that xubuntu has the least ammount of bloat compared with ubuntu and kubuntu?
[12:10] <knome> yes
[12:10] <spaceninja> cool
[12:11] <spaceninja> I don't like bloat
[12:11] <knome> who does?
[12:11]  * knome looks around
[12:11] <spaceninja> the people who doesn't care about it
[12:11] <spaceninja> -the
[12:11] <knome> or they have just started not to care about it, even they don't like it
[12:11] <spaceninja> well no one likes bloat, but alot of people are just messy
[12:12] <spaceninja> I don't like messy people, I hate being in their rooms
[12:12] <spaceninja> :)
[12:12] <spaceninja> order please!
[12:12] <knome> i'd like a coke.
[12:13] <spaceninja> :D
[12:14] <spaceninja> it took me a while to figure out the joke
[12:14] <knome> ha ;)
[12:14] <spaceninja> hehe good one :)
[12:15] <spaceninja> well, I'm off installing xubuntu
[12:15] <spaceninja> lets examine the bloatiness of it
[12:15] <spaceninja> bloatedness
[12:17] <spaceninja> I assume that the bloat indicator test might be positive due to the ubuntu heritage
[12:27] <tuna> spaceninja: mostly due to the memleaks in xfce4
[12:33] <spaceninja> oh
[13:01] <spaceninja> what's xubuntu intrepid ibex?
[13:02] <TheSheep> !intrepid
[13:08] <spaceninja> oh
[13:28] <spaceninja> I just read a review about some intrepid version, and it had orange and midori apps that aren't in the current release.
[13:28] <TheSheep> spaceninja: they were in betas for testing
[13:28] <TheSheep> spaceninja: but has been removed for release
[13:28] <spaceninja> why?
[13:28] <spaceninja> not stable enough?
[13:28] <TheSheep> spaceninja: because those are beta apps
[13:28] <TheSheep> spaceninja: yes
[13:28] <spaceninja> ok
[13:33] <spaceninja> does it take a long time to bootup xubuntu for the first time?
[13:34] <spaceninja> how do I see the terminal output?
[13:36] <spaceninja> great, errors :)
[13:36] <charlie-tca> spaceninja: Depends on your hardware, but not longer than ubuntu
[13:37] <spaceninja> The boot stopped and gave me a initramfs prompt
[13:37] <spaceninja> it can't find my hdd device or something
[13:38] <charlie-tca> Did it give any error messages?
[13:39] <spaceninja> yes
[13:39] <charlie-tca> what?
[13:41] <spaceninja> I rebooted the computer, I have to stare into the bootup logo for 5 minutes before it produces the error output
[13:42] <charlie-tca> Hit Escape when it says Grub, hilight the boot line, hit e to edit, remove quiet at the end of the line
[13:42] <charlie-tca> That will give boot messages under the throbber for that boot
[13:48] <spaceninja> check root-bootarg car /proc/cmdline or missing modules devices: cat /proc/modules ls /dev  ALERT /dev/disk/by-uuid/blahlbah....a.sd.34..<IP_ADDRESS>.4.blah does not exist. Dropping to a Shell
[13:49] <spaceninja> cat
[13:50] <charlie-tca> bad installation, I think. did you have any errors during the installation?
[13:51] <spaceninja> none
[13:52] <spaceninja> well
[13:53] <spaceninja> I have to try xubuntu another time, back to crux linux.
[13:53] <charlie-tca> None? Did the cd pass the "Check cd for defects?"
[13:58] <spaceninja> doesn't matter, I believe it's the /dev/by-uuid/
[13:59] <spaceninja> I assume it's a debian bloat
[14:18] <spaceninja> debian turned into a swamp, and ubuntu built a skyscraper on top of it. :)
[14:19] <spaceninja> and soon it will collapse on its own weight
[14:19]  * charlie-tca hoping not
[14:20] <spaceninja> the same thing is happening to vista
[14:21] <spaceninja> oh well :)
[14:21] <charlie-tca> Yes, but they have an awful lot of dead code
[14:23] <spaceninja> what a great way to express it, dead code, I love it
[14:23] <spaceninja> yes, too much dead code
[14:24] <charlie-tca> yea, my wording may be wrong
[14:24] <charlie-tca> but the meaning is the same :)
[14:25] <spaceninja> But I want the code to be as small as possible
[14:25] <spaceninja> little but powerful code
[14:25] <charlie-tca> That won't happen in Vista
[14:26] <TheSheep> spaceninja: ever tried archlinux?
[14:26] <spaceninja> yes, but I think it's bloated
[14:26] <TheSheep> ah
[14:26] <spaceninja> I'm using crux now
[14:26] <TheSheep> I guess there is no helping then :)
[14:26] <spaceninja> arch is almost based on crux
[14:27] <spaceninja> but I will get xubuntu installed
[14:27] <TheSheep> spaceninja: you can't possibly expect less bloat from a distro that's supposed to work out of the box for mostly anyone :)
[14:28] <spaceninja> I've used it for 1 year, and it's massivly bloated compared with crux
[14:30] <spaceninja> :D
[14:30] <spaceninja> when I become a millionare, I will build the perfect system
[14:30] <spaceninja> and make it open source
[14:35] <TheSheep> spaceninja: don't forget to go on a touristic trip into space first
[14:36] <spaceninja> good idea :D
[14:36] <spaceninja> but before I do that, I'll install xubuntu on my eepc
[16:38] <amerigo> somebody can help me??
[16:38] <vinnl> !ask
[16:38] <amerigo> After i connect USB modem to kubuntu, PC is frozen.
[16:38] <vinnl> amerigo, Kubuntu or Xubuntu?
[16:38] <amerigo> During shoutdown "Shutting Bluetooth Service" still remain several times and system is blocked
[16:38] <amerigo> ummm
[16:38] <amerigo> kubuntu
[16:38] <vinnl> amerigo, then I suppose you're better off in #kubuntu :)
[16:39] <amerigo> i ask but nobody answer
[16:39] <vinnl> Well, you have more change of people knowing what to do with Kubuntu there than here
[18:19] <vallhalla81> hi there i am building a vm to test xubuntu in could you tell me what is the kernel for the stable releseplease?
[18:20] <TheSheep>  2.6.24-21-generic
[18:20] <vallhalla81> thank you
[18:21] <charlie-tca> I feel cheated. I'm showing  2.6.24-19-generic in Hardy, version 8.04.01.
[18:22] <vallhalla81> charlie-tca when was your last update?
[18:22] <charlie-tca> I don't know, couple of days.
[18:22] <vallhalla81> odd then
[18:22]  * TheSheep has the proposed repo enabled...
[18:22] <charlie-tca> I'll just have to update
[18:23] <TheSheep> so maybe it's not exactly stable
[18:23] <TheSheep> but that's not really a version of kernel itslef :)
[18:23] <charlie-tca> I don't understand it all. I'll keep quiet :)
[18:24] <TheSheep> it's still kernel version 2.6.24
[18:24] <TheSheep> the -21 is just a distro-specific version
[18:24] <TheSheep> things like compiling options, init script and patches
[18:47] <jals> can anyone think of a simple way to recursively open all the images in a directory and save them
[18:47] <jals> i have some corrupted images which seem to get fixed when i open them in gimp and save them again
[18:48] <TheSheep> jals: how do you tell that they are broken?
[18:49] <jals> in gimp it says premature end to jpeg
[18:50] <TheSheep> you could use convert command from ImageMagick, together with find
[18:52] <jals> hmm yeah
[18:54] <jals> so just convert it to itself?
[18:56] <TheSheep> yeah, maybe with some optimizations, once you're at it :)
[19:03] <jals> so something like this: find -name *.jpg -exec convert {} {}
[19:03] <jals> ?
[19:04] <TheSheep> you might need some \; or something
[19:04] <TheSheep> can't remember, look at find's examples
[19:04] <jals> yeah i saw that in some examples, didn't know what it did
[19:05] <jals> so something like this: find -name *.jpg -exec convert {} {} \:
[19:05] <jals> so something like this: find -name *.jpg -exec convert {} {} \;
[19:07] <TheSheep> yeah, probably
[19:08] <jals> i think that's gonna work baby
[19:39] <JannoTT> I need help with my xubuntu(installed using wubi) anyways when booting up the kernel(i think) starts screaming that it cant configure my webcam(it does not work) and never stops. So i cant boot up
[19:40] <JannoTT> And live-cd does not have that kinda problem
[19:52] <JannoTT> phuck it. Uninstall for win
[20:42] <nnull> !vnc
[20:51] <nnull> does xubuntu come with ssh server installed?
[20:51] <nnull> !ssh
[20:52] <charlie-tca> Yeah!! Beta release is out
[20:52] <charlie-tca> nnull: it does not come with server installed; I think the ssh client is, though.
[20:55] <nnull> ok thx
[21:24] <nnull> im trying to vnc into my ssh server and im getting this: vncserver: Wrong type or access mode of /home/username/.vnc. -- do i need to have xfce running before i start vncserver or?
[21:25] <TheSheep> nnull: I think it's talking about permissions of that file
[21:26] <nnull> mmm any idea how id fix?
[21:26] <TheSheep> it's pretty bad error message, as it doesn't say what "access mode" is correct, though :(
[21:26] <nnull> :x
[21:26] <TheSheep> nnull: try making it readable only to the user
[21:37] <nnull> TheSheep¬ when i login to the VNC, i just get the terminal, and if i type startxfce4 it crashes
[21:39] <nnull> or if i do it thru ssh it says user not authorized to run the x server
[21:40] <TheSheep> :/
[21:40]  * TheSheep has no idea
[21:40] <zoredache> nnull: you trying to connect to an exising session?  Are you using x11vnc, or are you trying to setup a seperate session?
[21:45] <nnull> zoredache¬ i start the session while logged in via SSH, then login to the VNC via vinigare..
[21:45] <nnull> let me try again i thinkits wierd lol
[21:48] <Odd-rationale> nnull: did you read !vnc ?
[21:49] <nnull> yea
[22:06] <nnull> what vnc server do you recomend for xubuntu
[22:06] <cody-somerville> vino
[22:06] <nnull> kkkk
[22:09] <nnull> i apt-get vino but now its not there?
[22:09] <nnull> terminal vino & alt+f2 vino does nothing
[22:09] <vinnl> !info vino
[22:09] <Odd-rationale> nnull: i think you start it with vino-prefereneces ...
[22:10] <nnull> ah k ta
[22:25] <nnull> is there anything else i need to run after running vino-preferences ? because i cant see it listening in netstat?
[22:26] <nnull> or htop
[22:30] <zabbadapp> what could be accessing my second HD and prevent it from ever spinning down? if I force it with hdparm -y it will stop, but spin up a couple of seconds later. It only has backup files and is rarely used. XFS and mounted with noatime.
[22:31] <TheSheep> zabbadapp: you can use lsof to list all open files
[22:33] <zabbadapp> TheSheep: ok ... but none is open in /mnt  :-(
[22:39] <nnull> TheSheep¬ any idea why vino doesnt start after i do vino-prefs ?
[22:39] <TheSheep> nnull: no, sorry, I have very little experience with vnc
[22:40] <nnull> Odd-rationale¬ ??
[22:41] <TheSheep> omg, gimp 2.6.0 released!
[22:42] <vinnl> TheSheep, cool, eh? :)
[22:42] <vinnl> (Actually, I find the new window handling quite annoying, but then again, I didn't convert it back to how it was)
[22:42] <TheSheep> vinnl: you have no idea!
[22:42] <TheSheep> vinnl: new window handling?
[22:42]  * vinnl already awaits 2.8 ^.^
[22:42] <vinnl> TheSheep, well, there's an image window always open and the other two are now given the "Utility Window" hint
[22:43] <vinnl> Which means they're not shown in the taskbar and hover over the other window
[22:43] <TheSheep> ah, I had it always like htis
[22:43] <TheSheep> this
[22:43] <vinnl> :)
[22:43] <TheSheep> except for image window always open, of course
[22:43] <nnull> if im ssh'ed into a machine how do i get files from it ?
[22:43] <TheSheep> nuuse scp
[22:43] <TheSheep> nnull: use scp
[22:43] <nnull> ok
[22:43] <nnull> not sftp?
[22:43] <nnull> oh scp.. heh
[22:44] <TheSheep> nnull: scp user@host:file user@host:file
[22:44] <TheSheep> nnull: you can also use local paths there, of course
[22:51] <nnull> TheSheep¬ keeps saying connection to port 22 refused
[22:51] <nnull> im using a custom port, do i need to change something for scp? ifso where do you know?
[22:51] <nnull> i tried specifing the port with scp -P
[22:51] <nnull> no luck
[22:56] <nnull> nevermind, sftp ftw.
[22:57] <nnull> bbs
[23:51] <verme> hi
[23:52] <charlie-tca> hi verme
[23:52] <verme> hello charlie-tca
[23:52] <Genelyk> beta
[23:52] <Genelyk> ?
[23:52] <charlie-tca> Got a question?
[23:52] <charlie-tca> Genelyk, beta is released
[23:53] <charlie-tca> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/intrepid/beta/


[09:44] <demahum> I am looking forward to understand Ubuntu Kernel updates. For the beginning, if I do apt update followed by apt upgrade, and if the kernel update is available, I will get it that way, correct?
[09:54] <apw> apt update then apt upgrade i believe yes will get you any availble kernel updates
[09:54] <apw> assuming you have the appropriate meta package installed (which you should by default)
[09:54] <apw> demahum, ^
[09:55] <demahum> apw: awesome
[09:55] <demahum> now..
[09:56] <demahum> there is this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Support
[09:56] <demahum> the kernel release schedule
[09:56] <apw> yes
[09:56] <demahum> and in my case, I have 16.04.3 LTS
[09:56] <demahum> and my current kernel is 4.4.0-112
[09:57] <demahum> I am talking desktop, but it's the same on my server
[09:57] <apw> you installed from 16.04.3 media ?
[09:57] <demahum> apw: yes yes, everything standard and default
[09:57] <demahum> now...
[09:57] <apw> servers tend to keep the GA kernel (4.4.0-* in the case of 16.04)
[09:58] <apw> i ask about the media you used because if you installed from 16.04 or 16.04.1 media and upgraded
[09:58] <apw> you would have 16.04.3 in the sense that is what lsb_release thingy would say
[09:58] <apw> but you would have a differnt kernel selected than if you used 16.04.3 media
[09:58] <apw> for the install
[09:58] <demahum> apw: what can happen (aside from manual kernel installation) that my 16.04. jumps from 4.4.0-* to e.g. 4.12.*?
[09:59] <apw> if you had installed from 16.04.2 or later you would have had the linux-hwe kernel selected
[09:59] <apw> and that kernel jumps from 4.8 -> 4.10 -> 4.13 as it is following the hardware-enablement branch
[10:00] <demahum> apw: Awesome!
[10:00] <demahum> apw: you gave me enough information so I can read on now. Big thanks!
[10:00] <apw> so i assume if your desktop is following 4.4 it was installed from older media
[10:01] <demahum> apw: after I read these... if something is unclear, I'll come back
[10:01] <apw> and has 'linux-generic' meta package installed, which keeps your GA kernel up to date
[10:01] <demahum> apw: yeah, probably that's the case
[10:01] <apw> a machine which has the later stuff on it would have linux-generic-hwe-16.04 installed which keeps the linux-hwe kernel up to date
[10:01] <demahum> apw: perfect, thanks!


[10:01] <alkisg> Hi, I got this segmentation fault on 16.04 + hwe, would reverting to non-hwe kernel+xorg help?  http://paste.debian.net/919983/
[10:01] <alkisg>
[10:02] <alkisg> Using ubuntu-mate, with marco window manager that has compositing: org.mate.Marco.general compositing-manager true
[10:07]  * alkisg tries disabling compositing in the mean time... :)
[11:18] <tjaalton> it's a mesa bug, you could try updating it via ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/updates
[11:23] <alkisg> Thank you tjaalton, will do


[00:46] <tonyyarusso> Looks like you might get your storms sparklehistory
[00:48] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Yup!
[00:50] <tonyyarusso> Reasonably decent article about Conficker:  http://theweek.com/article/index/203969/the-last-word-the-ultimate-computer-worm
[02:58] <Takyoji> Anyone ever used a radio receiver device in Linux via a PC/IF radio cable?
[02:59] <Takyoji> I have a receiver that you can connect to a computer and collect data and/or control the device with.
[02:59] <Takyoji> I'll be returning in under half an hour or so
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> Hey h00k, lookit what I can do!
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('eventCode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> TOR
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> >>> print doc.getElementsByTagName('geocode')[0].getElementsByTagName('value')[0].firstChild.nodeValue
[03:22] <tonyyarusso> 027039
[03:23] <tonyyarusso> (Translation:  Tornado Warning for Dodge county)
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> also, scratch what I said yesterday about modifying feedparser - I'm an idiot.
[03:24] <Takyoji> Depends on the URL though :P
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> what now Takyoji ?
[03:24] <Takyoji> Nothing; the JS you're talking of isn't specific to Dodge county was all I was saying
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> JS?.......
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> This is Python, parsing XML.
[03:25] <Takyoji> Oh, interesting
[03:25] <Takyoji> Looked like JS with the typical function chaining
[03:25] <tonyyarusso> and 027039 == FIPS6 code for Dodge county, MN
[03:25] <Takyoji> Aside from doc, since it's document
[03:26] <Takyoji> (which would be the only thing to throw it off from looking like true JS)
[03:26] <Takyoji> Anyway, anyone done any radio-like things on Linux at all?
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> So matching 027039 tells you where it's for, not URL-dependent.
[03:26] <tonyyarusso> 027123 is Ramsey county
[03:27] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:27] <tonyyarusso> (These are the area codes used by the National Weather Service in their SAME radio broadcasts)
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> 927137 is the south-east corner of St. Louis county (Duluth)
[03:29] <Takyoji> otherwise on Saturday I'll be on vacation for about a week
[03:29] <tonyyarusso> a leading 0 means the county is not subdivided.  Otherwise it's 1,2,3 4,5,6 7,8,9 west-central-east, north to south.
[04:10] <Takyoji> otherwise as implied, I'll be in the Grand Rapids area for a week.
[04:11] <Takyoji> I notice jenkinbr happens to be the only one mapped to that area.
[04:19] <Takyoji> Looks practically like +90% of the Ubuntu Minnesota LoCo team is in the metro
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> or at least of those who have mapped themselves, yeah
[04:48] <Takyoji> Well yea
[04:49] <Takyoji> It just seems like a handful more mapped in the metro area since last time I checked
[04:49] <tonyyarusso> Probably because our outstate people are a bunch of slackers who never plan any events or anything.
[04:50] <tonyyarusso> *nudgenudge*
[04:51] <Takyoji> So then what else would there be to do other than an installfest at this time?
[04:51] <tonyyarusso> Ubuntu Hours!
[04:52] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: 'cause that worked so well last time
[04:52] <Takyoji> Now that I'm finally done with high school!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> Presentations about random topics!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> LAN party!
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> Pizza & movie night - you can watch Antitrust :P
[04:52] <Takyoji> So now I don't have an excuse for no Ubuntu Hour, aside from location and money (so I don't seem like some guy coming to a building to just steal their wireless everyday)
[04:52] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: What's a LAN party?
[04:52] <Takyoji> :P
[04:52] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: gaming
[04:53] <Takyoji> Tremulous!
[04:53] <tonyyarusso> bzflag!
[04:53] <Takyoji> This small "city"/town..
[04:54] <Takyoji> I know a LAN party could be possible anywhere there's electricity, since you don't need the Internet; but that may be a turn off to some..
[04:55] <tonyyarusso> You have 21,000 people.  That's plenty.
[04:55] <Takyoji> I'm complaining about buildings available though. :P
[04:55] <Takyoji> otherwise I don't have an official job as of yet
[04:59] <Takyoji> Heh, it's be interesting if I could also receive raw ATSC transmission using my scanning receiver and watch television on my laptop. xP
[05:25] <Takyoji> Bleh, Excel sheets: http://www.dtv.gov/broadcastersupport.html
[05:25] <Takyoji> They could even just use CSV
[05:27]  * tonyyarusso is sad that Saturn is dead
[05:39] <Takyoji> It's interesting how it seems like the idol browsing shifting from Firefox to Chrome in like under a year or less
[06:06] <kermit> i rarely use chrome yet it's already given me some error about a currupted settings file
[06:07] <kermit> so it doesnt seem too reliable.. though firefox  3.6.3 has a bug that deletes my form history randomly.
[06:12] <Takyoji> Oh fun
[06:12] <Takyoji> I haven't had an errors with Chrome yet
[06:13] <Takyoji> any errors*
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> http://www.ifitwasmyhome.com/#loc=Ontonagon%2C%20MI%2C%20USA&lat=46.8710525&lng=-89.3140302&x=-88.523014575&y=47.446263695399125&z=7
[06:21] <sparklehistory> hmm, I see it got Split Rock and Gooseberry today
[06:26] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: I'm kinda surprised I haven't seen that on Rachel Maddow yet
[07:09] <Takyoji> Anyone used barry or berry4all at all?
[15:55] <h00k> tonyyarusso: lookit what?
[15:55] <h00k> tonyyarusso: oh
[15:55]  * h00k reads backlog
[19:07] <tonyyarusso> http://xkcd.com/754/
[19:27] <kermit> i can't read that, i still havent read 753 yet
[19:55] <_diablo> tonyyarusso: yeah, i thought it was amusing
[22:46] <Takyoji> Yaaaaay! https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
[22:50] <Takyoji> By the way, does the default encryption method of SSH tunnelling increase the size of the content significantly than when the content wasn't encrypted?
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> y6es
[22:50] <Obsidian1723> yes
[22:53] <Takyoji> because I'd love to be able to have an encrypted SOCKS tunnel when using GPRS (or whatever the correct physical protocol is)
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> heh
[22:54] <Obsidian1723> Well.....
[22:55] <Obsidian1723> You could setup a VPN tunnel and SSH over to it, then have a proxsy server on the other end, and use w3m.
[22:55] <Obsidian1723> n ice an encrypted, too much though so that it'd east cpu, bandwidth, edtc.
[22:55] <Takyoji> I'll be tethering through a cellphone from a laptop
[22:56] <Takyoji> and will have images disabled in the web browser
[22:56] <Obsidian1723> ahh
[22:57] <Takyoji> and I think OpenSSH is capable of compressing data as well
[22:57] <kermit> i'm skeptical that encryption increases the data size, are you sure?
[22:58] <Takyoji> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/93451/does-aes-128-or-256-encryption-expand-the-data-if-so-by-how-much
[22:58] <Takyoji> I have a feeling that only Blowfish is the one that actually significantly increases in size
[22:58] <Takyoji> and perhaps a few oldie methods
[22:59] <Takyoji> SSH typically uses RSA/DSA, right?
[22:59] <kermit> my ssh doesnt anyway
[22:59] <kermit> (doesnt make it bigger i mean)
[23:00] <kermit> OpenSSH_5.3p1 Debian-3ubuntu3, OpenSSL 0.9.8k 25 Mar 2009
[23:00] <kermit> or at least not more than 0.3%
[23:02] <tonyyarusso> Increase, yes, but I don't know if it's "significantly".
[23:04] <Takyoji> Another thing I've always been curious of: is there a way to throttle a whole system's connection (perhaps a virtual machine for example), just to see how something loads on slower connections?
[23:04] <Takyoji> (in terms of web development and so forth)
[23:08] <Obsidian1723> Yes, you can do that easily enough. You need a managed switch to do that though, so you can throttle the one PCs connection.
[23:08] <Obsidian1723> Just limit the bandwidth u/l and d/l speeds
[23:09] <Obsidian1723> I have such a switch for sale, if you are interested.
[23:09] <kermit> iptables does it
[23:11] <Obsidian1723> I'd still do the switch.
[23:12] <Takyoji> after all, it's only for testing; it's not like I need it for throttling someone's connection on enterprise network or anything of that extent.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> Hardware is supperior to software everytime. It bottlenecks less. If you could eliminate software and everything was hardware, youd still have bottlenecks, but less of them. Your PC would instantly power on.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> I hear ya.
[23:12] <Obsidian1723> I run Cisco switches in my home's server room and have my hosue wired with RG-58 and CAT5e, b ut thats me.
[23:18] <Takyoji> By the way, does the "shred" command only write random data over the exact location the file is?
[23:18] <Takyoji> I though it was to scramble it (or just 0 it), and delete it as well.
[23:20] <tonyyarusso> It can do any or all of the above
[23:21] <Obsidian1723> The feds can still recover data though. Only surefire way is a hard drive shredder.
[23:22] <kermit> Takyoji: strace
[23:22] <Takyoji> So it can still be recovered if it's overwritten several times and read to check the integrity, then nulled? :P
[23:22] <tonyyarusso> I love how people think the NSA can magically recover data when all evidence says that's bogus.
[23:22] <Obsidian1723> and does that evidence come from people who work with them?
[23:23] <kermit> tonyyarusso: yeah i know a guy who does that for a living and he says you really cant on modern drives
[23:23] <tonyyarusso> Exactly.
[23:23] <Obsidian1723> kermit, what was his reasoning?
[23:23] <tonyyarusso> We don't even have evidence that they can recover data after a single pass of 0s, much less multiple random passes.
[23:24]  * tonyyarusso is a computer forensics major, btw
[23:24] <Obsidian1723> You guys need to look into computer forensics. I think you'll be severly surprised aqt just what is possble.
[23:24]  * Obsidian1723 works in security with govt agencies btw.
[23:25] <tonyyarusso> What actually is possible, or what your boss tells you is possible to cover his ass multiple times over?  :P
[23:26] <Obsidian1723> There's some pretty good tools out there, like I.N.S.E.R.T., Trinuty Rescue Disk, Hirens (which has OnTrack with it), BackTrack, F.I.R.E., but they pale compared to what the public will never have.
[23:27] <tonyyarusso> Tools don't change what's possible, only how hard it is to train someone to do it.
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Well, even with the right tools and training, the natural mindset cant be taught. You can teach someone to be a surgeon, and they may be good, but then someone else has this something extra ability, even though they went through the same training.. Itsl ike that.
[23:28] <kermit> what's trinity resuce disk have anything to do with restoring overwritten data?
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Just beause you can play the notes, does not mean you can make the music.
[23:28] <kermit> you must not mean 'trinity rescue kit'
[23:28] <Obsidian1723> Just saying there are tools out there for sniffing things out, but not quite on par with what the govt has.
[23:29] <kermit> "trinity rescue kit" is just a distribution of linx
[23:29] <kermit> linux
[23:29] <tonyyarusso> So you're saying the government has magic.  Because that's the only explanation for what you're claiming.
[23:29] <Obsidian1723> tony, believe me or not. I CAN'T say.
[23:29] <tonyyarusso> Typical :P
[23:30] <Obsidian1723> No. Typical CA
[23:30] <Takyoji> Considering it could just be a write buffer for a harddrive or something similar that just needs to be cleared or overwritten
[23:30] <tonyyarusso> "Really, trust me!"
[23:30] <kermit> hirens also appears to be simply software
[23:30] <Obsidian1723> Like I said.. belive me or not, but I cant put my job at risk, sorry.
[23:31] <Obsidian1723> Youve never signed aq CA I take it tony?
[23:31] <tonyyarusso> Yeah well.   Itsn ot like your disbelieving me won't make it no longer possible.
[23:32] <kermit> unless you're claiming an ordinary PC can recover overwritten data.
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> Im just staing what is, thats all.
[23:32] <kermit> (as those are just PC software kits)
[23:32] <tonyyarusso> Tell you what, why don't you bring in a disk I give you to work, and come back and tell me what's on it?
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> kermit, what version of hirens? Maybe they removed it. last I looked, verion 9 something had it.
[23:33] <kermit> version 10.5 is still just software
[23:34] <Takyoji> and I find it entertaining that EFF also strongly believes in the use of shred as well; they must be non-believers as well.  Im simply saying that if they want it, thyey will get it.
[23:36] <tonyyarusso> I'm still waiting for an answer to my challenge.  Are you going to put anything behind your claims, or just keep spouting them?
[23:36] <Takyoji> I believe you're along the lines of forgetting to delete all instances of the data
[23:36] <Obsidian1723> tony, do you feel threatened or something?
[23:36] <kermit> i'm still waiting to know if he claims ordinary PC hardware can read overwritten data
[23:37] <Takyoji> such as temporary file
[23:37] <Takyoji> files*
[23:37] <kermit> since the tools he cited are merely software
[23:37] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: eh?  Why would I feel threatened?
[23:37] <Obsidian1723> I dont know if hardware can do that or not. I work with the agencies, but they get all the neat toys. I just know they exist.
[23:37] <kermit> we're arguing that not even specialized hardware can, so that would put the claim even farther away.
[23:37] <Takyoji> People just get annoyed with the whole wizardry case of "i can hax the NSA's database!"
[23:37] <tonyyarusso> Obsidian1723: Do you actually use these tools, or just hear about them in the break room?
[23:37] <Obsidian1723> I do know there are software programs t hat the govt has that people do not.
[23:38] <Takyoji> (which are the ones that say such for personal ego, typically)
[23:38] <Obsidian1723> not in the break room.
[23:38] <tonyyarusso> That did not answer the question.  What is your job?
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> Working with various hardware and software for govt agencies, and no, I am not going into specifics. Again, I signed a CA.
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> MKy hands are legally tied.
[23:39] <Obsidian1723> but I do not do data recovery, I can tell you that.
[23:40] <tonyyarusso> So in other words, you don't know what you're talking about.  End of story.
[23:40] <Obsidian1723> If you believe so, or not...either way it doesnt matter or change what is.
[23:40] <Takyoji> Then I have a feeling that the offer still stands. :P
[23:40] <Obsidian1723> Im simply stating what is, thats all.
[23:40] <tonyyarusso> No, it doesn't.  And "what it is" is that your claims are utter bunk.
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> So you want me to break a CA?
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> f that.
[23:41] <kermit> this reminds me of when someone tried to defend the use of the unit "kw/h"
[23:41] <Obsidian1723> I need my job thanks.
[23:41] <tonyyarusso> I'm not asking you to tell me how - I'm just asking you to prove you can do it, and magically come back with the data.
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> You didn't read the part about where I don't use the fun toys, but only know of them.
[23:42] <tonyyarusso> And don't have any friends at work?  How sad.
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> I dont know how to fly an airplane either, but I know it can be done.
[23:42] <Takyoji> Then it can be delegated to those who do
[23:42] <Obsidian1723> lotsa freinds at work actually. whjy would you AS|U|ME otherwise?
[23:42] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, and we've all seen airplanes fly.  That's all we're asking for here.
[23:43] <Obsidian1723> and I can no more prove to you what can be done, any more than I can prove to you what is at Area 51 (and that I DON'T know what is there..wish I did.)
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> Sure you can.  You just won't.  Because you don't want us to know the real answer, which is nothing.
[23:44] <Obsidian1723> like I said... I know it can be done, not my area. I deal with other aspects of security, not forensics.
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> You don't "know" anything - you've merely been told.
[23:44] <Obsidian1723> Tony if it is nothing, then why are you so convinced so?
[23:44] <tonyyarusso> huh?
[23:46] <kermit> Although Gutmann's theory may be correct, there's no practical evidence  that overwritten data can be recovered. Moreover, there are good reasons  to think that it cannot.[5][6][7]
[23:46]  * tonyyarusso sends over a Magic Eye poster to "zoom and enhance" until a license plate number appears for something easier to start with
[23:46] <kermit> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_recovery#Overwritten_data
[23:46] <Obsidian1723> Tomny, that's a strawman argument.; You've been told many things that you can't prove by that same measure because you weren't there, yet you still accept them. Arguing with people on the Internet is like winning the special olympics.. you know the rest. It is what it is. Believem e or not. Cool either way man. Just dont get busted by the feds and find out, thats all.
[23:47] <Obsidian1723> taqke it, leave it, matters not to me.
[23:47] <tonyyarusso> Mmmmmmm, wouldn't be a government job without spreading unsubstantiated fear, would it Obsidian1723 ?
[23:47] <Obsidian1723> no. I leave the FUD to MS
[23:48] <tonyyarusso> You'd think you'd care at least a little bit about your personal integrity.  Oh well.
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> oh and your camera thing is interesting. it is a well known fact that the satillitie cameras can read right along with you if you read a book outside.
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> tony, I can about my job and a CA, oh well.
[23:49] <tonyyarusso> And your job/CA requires you to lie to the public.  Gotcha.
[23:49] <Obsidian1723> if I didnth ave integrity, would the CA matter? think about it.
[23:49] <Obsidian1723> I never said I lied. Now you accuse me of lying? really.. the grapes are soure arent they>?
[23:50] <tonyyarusso> I was accusing you of lying like 20 minutes ago, and yes, still am.
[23:50] <tonyyarusso> That would be the word for making false claims, which is what you are doing.
[23:52] <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better?
[23:52] <kermit> http://pastebin.com/eUDXUxqC -- a hilarious "kw/h" "debate"
[23:53] <tonyyarusso> Which clause of your CA prevents you from showing that it's possible exactly?  And I care because one way is true, and the other is bogus, and you're peddling the bogus one.
[23:54] <Obsidian1723> Nothing o nthe CA prevents me from saying its possible, I just can't provide Proof. "Ok here, call XYZ at XCD agency and hes at X # anjd.." ummmm no.
[23:54] <Obsidian1723> again.....
[23:55] <Obsidian1723> well, in order to prove otherwise I would have to break a legal contract, so I wont do that, Like I said, believe it or not, matters not to me. So why are you still chewing on the topic? What does it matter to you so much? It's like the Christian that believes only out of fear. Are you afraid? Ok. there is no boogeyman. The govt is yoiur freind. they cannot find your naughty picutres. better?
[23:55] <kermit> why'd you cite tools that dont do what you claim is possible?
[23:56] <Obsidian1723> merely giving examples of tools that the public has access too. I suppoose OnTrack would have been a better example.
[23:57] <tonyyarusso> I like how you once again decided to answer a different question than the one I asked.  It's that sort of thing that provides a glaring red flag that you're being dishonest.
[23:57] <kermit> kroll on track?
[23:58] <kermit> thats funny, because Kroll is where the friend i mentioned who told me it's impossible works.
[23:58] <tonyyarusso> kermit: Yes, although it is written Kroll OnTrack as he did.  That much at least was true.
[23:58] <tonyyarusso> also, if you want to mention tools the public uses, FTK and EnCase should be on your list, since that's what most of the private sector has.
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> Do you really think the govert wants proof out there that they can get at whatever they want unless the hard drive is destroyed beyond reason like a shredder, blowtorch, etc?
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> think about it.
[23:59] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, EnCase is pretty good actually, best of the 3


[07:36] <tjaalton> infinity: nvidia 352 in still in NEW, and as I hear now obsolete
[08:12] <slangasek> cyphermox: looking
[08:13] <cyphermox> slangasek: (sorry :)
[08:13] <cyphermox> slangasek: also, you said golang?
[08:13] <slangasek> cyphermox: yep; let me get up to speed on my mail and I'll find you a link
[08:13] <cyphermox> alright
[08:14] <slangasek> cyphermox: the udev rule removal is a backport of a change already in wily?
[08:15] <cyphermox> slangasek: no, it's an adaptation of how wily works
[08:15] <slangasek> cyphermox: hrm please expand
[08:15] <cyphermox> slangasek: things are Very Broken otherwise, system goes up in load due to multipath-tools being called repeatedly on the devices
[08:15] <cyphermox> (or udev being called repeatedly and failing to speak to the socket
[08:15] <slangasek> cyphermox: my question is whether the udev rule is dropped in wily
[08:16] <cyphermox> no, it's still in wily
[08:16] <cyphermox> multipath doesn't work the same in wily, it's 0.5.0
[08:17] <slangasek> hmm
[08:17] <slangasek> ok
[08:17] <cyphermox> I'm just trying to make things work as best I can backporting just the bits we need
[08:17] <slangasek> so what's the test case for that change?
[08:17] <cyphermox> the udev rule specifically?
[08:17] <slangasek> yes
[08:17] <cyphermox> *rules
[08:17] <slangasek> btw bug #1468897 is referenced in the SRU changelog but has no SRU test case
[08:18] <cyphermox> if the socket rule is there, you'll see a ton of errors from udev about the multipath socket which can't be reached, because, AIUI, udev doesn't understand the path
[08:18] <slangasek> if it's a duplicate of the other, please mark it as a duplicate.  If it's not, please add an explicit test case for it
[08:18] <slangasek> cyphermox: so that's the existing behavior you see with the udev rule as it sits in trusty-updates today?
[08:19] <cyphermox> and if the add|change rule is there; you'll see the system come up with >8 load average and multipath being started and finishing repeatedly in processes
[08:19] <cyphermox> slangasek: with no changes in trusty-updates, things seem to work properly
[08:20] <cyphermox> ^ that SRU changes how multipath speaks to udev (teaches multipath about udev, in short)
[08:20] <cyphermox> multipath is expected to receive the events already and handle them itself via multipathd
[08:21] <slangasek> cyphermox: you said you would see errors from udev becuase udev doesn't understand the path; but this is the existing rule present in trusty-updates; so that doesn't seem accurate
[08:21] <cyphermox> if you upgrade, you'll see errors, and I didn't see them before
[08:21] <cyphermox> but I agree, one should already see them
[08:22] <cyphermox> heh, I guess this makes it another bug, really
[08:22] <slangasek> cyphermox: so from an SRU standpoint: a) what is the udev rule for, b) how do we test that the thing the udev rule was supposed to do previously, still works after applying the SRU?
[08:23] <slangasek> cyphermox: I don't need a separate bug report for this but do want an explicit test case
[08:23] <cyphermox> slangasek: I'll get it on the bug report, it should have been there. In short, simulate paths appearing and disappearing by breaking FC links
[08:23] <cyphermox> that would be the easiest way to reproduce it
[08:24] <cyphermox> I asked to get access to hardware for that a while ago, but I didn't get a response
[08:43] <cyphermox> slangasek: I updated the two multipath bugs.
[09:49] <apw> did we force something to migrate, as for me the current state of wily-release is uninstallable in a big way
[10:36] <Laney> apw: example?
[10:41] <apw> Laney, the info is now in bug #1485970, seems apt could not figure out that it needed to configure libexpat1
[10:42] <apw> (i think you can take it from that that my uninstallability was falsly reported by apt as it was half way through)
[10:48] <Laney> apw: ah right, not straight uninstallability then
[10:56] <apw> Laney, no, it felt like that at first glance, but something all together different in the end
[11:53] <slangasek> cyphermox: "Some USB 3.0 devices *can* support multipath; users of such custom configurations will see USB devices not being considered as multipath devices" - is there a documented/documentable way for the users of such devices to get the previous behavior?
[11:53] <cyphermox> no
[11:53] <slangasek> ok
[11:53] <cyphermox> there's no way to get the previous behavior back, this is just theoretical
[11:53] <cyphermox> I'm not sure *how* you would do it but it should be feasible
[11:54] <cyphermox> but if we do have someone who decides they want to do USB 3.0 multipathed on Trusty, they're prepared for a bad upgrade, because 0.5.0 drops USB completely.
[11:54] <slangasek> so the consequence is that the multiple paths will show up as separate devices; references to the multipath device will be invalid; and the device will be accessible but lose the redundancy
[11:54] <slangasek> heh ok
[11:54] <cyphermox> I just couldn't apply these patches on top without breaking things
[11:55] <slangasek> infinity: ^^ I would like a second opinion on this
[11:55] <cyphermox> right, device will be usable but not redundant via /dev/mapper.
[11:55] <cyphermox> infinity and I discussed this before ,that's why I say USB 3.0 multipath could be done, he brought it up :)
[11:56] <slangasek> ok, so did he also voice his opinion on whether this is acceptable in an SRU?
[11:56] <slangasek> thanks for the thorough analysis of regression potential, regardless
[11:56] <cyphermox> not so much
[11:57] <cyphermox> (or I don't remember well enough)
[12:32] <cyphermox> fyi, I understand liblog-any-adapter-perl is a candidate for removal, it was apparently merged into liblog-any-perl, according to the latter's changelog, and I've checked the reverse-depends which seem to be either blocked in proposed, or fixed and transitioned because of alternate depends.
[13:00] <slangasek> cyphermox: liblog-any-adapter-perl sorted (via a bit of process-removals)
[13:01] <cyphermox> slangasek: thanks. there was already a bug from micah.
[13:05] <Riddell> slangasek, doko: if you're doing new reviews could you stop for a sec, some may need rejected?
[13:06] <slangasek> Riddell: it's not me
[14:58] <Pici> a/36
[16:43] <infinity> slangasek: The "you could do multipath on USB" assertion of mine was purely theoretical as an argument for why dropping device classes is probably "wrong", but I can't imagine that it's something people actually do.
[17:52] <slangasek> infinity: IOW, you're ok with this in an SRU?
[18:01] <infinity> slangasek: Yeah, I think so.  It was just a complaint that I think the upstream logic is overreaching.
[18:01] <infinity> slangasek: But, yeah, no real person would mpath over USB in any situation I can think of, except perhaps to test mpath when you don't own enough hard drives. :P
[20:50] <cyphermox> infinity: you really just need one to test multipath...
[20:50] <cyphermox> ;)
[20:53] <infinity> cyphermox: Sorry, more disk controllers. :P
[22:08] <robru> can somebody remind me how to build touch images? IIRC I was given permission to do this forever ago and I've completely forgotten where/how to do it
[22:09] <robru> infinity: ^
[22:10] <cjwatson> iso.qa.ubuntu.com, log in, select wily daily, checkbox left of "Product (Ubuntu Touch)" which should select everything in that section, make sure "Request a rebuild" is selected at the bottom, "Update rebuild status"
[22:10] <cjwatson> or if you need vivid, ssh -t nusakan sudo -iu cdimage, crontab -l | grep touch, copy and paste the bit beginning with DIST=vivid
[22:11] <cjwatson> that's nusakan.canonical.com depending on your ssh configuration, requires VPN
[22:12] <robru> thanks
[22:13] <robru> cjwatson: is there a wiki for that anywhere?
[22:14] <infinity> cjwatson: Pretty sure he's not in cdimage (and shouldn't be).
[22:15] <cjwatson> yeah so you can probably only do the wily one
[22:15] <robru> darn
[22:15] <robru> infinity: cjwatson: will one of you be around to do the vivid one a bit later?
[22:15] <cjwatson> I won't
[22:16] <infinity> robru: Define "bit".
[22:16] <robru> infinity: I'm guessing like an hour or two, we're still waiting for one silo to be QAd and published.
[22:17] <infinity> robru: An hour, yes, two, maybe.
[22:17] <robru> infinity: alright I'll poke the qa people
[22:22] <cjwatson> fixing things so that rebuild-requests knows how to kick off vivid touch builds would be mostly a SMOP; basically moving the EXTRA_PPAS variable setting out of crontab and into a config file somewhere
[22:36] <infinity> cjwatson: We're doing that right noiw.
[22:36] <infinity> now, too.
[22:36] <infinity> (not moving things around, just fixing rebuild-requests)
[22:46] <infinity> robru: stgraber is fixing the world for you right now so you can trigger vivid from iso.qa
[22:49] <robru> oh sweet
[22:50] <robru> it's almost ready, hit publish on the silo, just waiting for the PPA to publish the packages
[23:01] <robru> infinity: I see vivid on the ISO page, is it safe for me to trigger that yet?
[23:04] <infinity> robru: When do you need to?  Are you ready?
[23:05] <robru> infinity: yep we're ready
[23:05] <infinity> robru: If so, then yes, trigger from the tracker.  Both arches, obviously.
[23:05] <infinity> robru: We're watching for debugging reasons. :)
[23:05] <robru> infinity: great, thanks for enabling that
[23:05] <infinity> robru: But it should work.
[23:05] <robru> infinity: ok I just clicked on the rebuild thing, I don't see any changes in the web interface tho
[23:06] <robru> oh it does say rebuilding, nm
[23:06] <robru> 15:59:46 <sil2100> Ok, kicking the build now
[23:07] <robru> infinity: what happens if the build is kicked twice? ^
[23:08] <infinity> robru: The one he "kicked" never happened, since it was when we had it all disabled.
[23:08] <robru> lol
[23:08] <infinity> sil2100: Perhaps people should ask if a feature is done when someone says they're implementing it on the fly? ;)
[23:13] <sil2100> What what?
[23:14] <robru> sil2100: they were enabling vivid builds on iso.qa.u.c so that I could kick a build, and I did
[23:14] <sil2100> Ah, so it got kicked already? Ok
[23:14] <sil2100> Does it use the overlay in that case?
[23:14] <sil2100> I saw a request, didn't see anyone saying 'I kicked the build' so I kicked it
[23:15] <sil2100> I told Bill explicitly that I'll be back to kick the build
[23:15] <sil2100> So I didn't even expect anybody to kick it besides me
[23:15] <sil2100> Anyway, should I terminate the command I ran on nusakan?
[23:16] <robru> infinity claimed the command you ran didn't do anything. I'm not sure what there is to cancel
[23:16] <infinity> sil2100: Err, you did it by hand?
[23:16] <sil2100> I always do it by hand through nusakan
[23:17] <infinity> sil2100: Please don't?
[23:17] <sil2100> There was no other option in the past, I got nusakan access just for this purpose - that's what ogra_ and slangasek said I should do
[23:18] <sil2100> Not sure if that changed but no one informed me that's not the right way to do it
[23:18] <infinity> Ahh.  Well, they were wrong.  That's a terrible reason to give people access to a machine with sensitive private keys on it.
[23:18] <infinity> Someone should have pointed out to us that rebuilding this from the web UI should work. :P
[23:18] <sil2100> Well, now I do much more on nusakan, but that was the original idea
[23:18] <infinity> (which it now does)
[23:19] <sil2100> Anyway, should I kill off the command now or just leave it?
[23:19] <infinity> Just leave it.
[23:19] <infinity> Just means we can't test our stuff without building again, which might annoy you.
[23:19] <infinity> But killing annoys things too, so whatever. :P
[23:19] <sil2100> Sorry for the confusion, but as I said, I explicitly coordinated with the product team manager that I'll be around and that was the plan
[23:19] <robru> alright I gotta run out, we should sync up on this tomorrow I guess
[23:19] <robru> bbl
[23:19] <infinity> sil2100: Oh.  See, robru implied that he would need help with it, hence we fixed it so he wouldn't. :P
[23:20] <robru> infinity: sil was given access to nusakan forever ago. Ancient history now
[23:21] <infinity> robru: Yeah.  Just sayin' it was probably wrong back then.  Annoyed with past people.  I'll get over it.
[23:21] <infinity> (People being given access to nusakan willy-nilly caused me to get IS to actually write policy about sensitive machines)
[23:21] <sil2100> Well, as said, I use nusakan for much more now and I think that was the deal as well, but the original idea for me getting access was to 'manage and build images'
[23:22] <sil2100> hah ;)
[23:22] <infinity> sil2100: "much more"?  system-image stuff, I assume?
[23:23] <sil2100> Yeah, basically only system-image stuff ;p
[23:23] <infinity> All of that shouldn't be on nusakan either, but I guess we need all the people who care to figure out and fix that.
[23:23] <infinity> And by "all of that", I don't mean system image backend things, but the commands one runs to manipulate them, etc.
[23:24] <infinity> Shouldn't need shell on a machine with two highly sensitive private keys.
[23:24] <infinity> Rant over.  I should go be not here.
[23:24] <sil2100> That makes sense indeed
[23:24] <infinity> In the future, rebuilding from the web UI should work.
[23:25] <sil2100> Ok, will remember that, although building it from the terminal was so convinient!
[23:25] <infinity> The web ui is actually more convenient!
[23:25] <infinity> Don't need a terminal and a screen session.
[23:46] <cjwatson> I've said this before, but the easy-ish first step to making system-image more sensible is to split it off to a separate user.
[23:46] <cjwatson> A separate machine would be good too, but is more work.
[23:46] <cjwatson> Just a separate account removes access to cdimage keys, avoids the crontab awkwardness, etc.
[23:47] <sil2100> infinity: oh, and while you're here, did you get my e-mail with -proposed britney questions by any chance?
[23:49] <sil2100> hm, actually I remember you being on a sprint this week
[23:50] <sil2100> cjwatson: yeah, I suppose that sounds like a sensible solution, a separate machine would require many changes in system-image itself
[23:57] <cjwatson> Probably not hugely many, but at least more.
[23:57] <cjwatson> AFAIK there's nothing non-trivial requiring them to share a user, though.
[23:58] <cjwatson> The transition is a bit awkward and requires coordination with IS, but that should be about it ...