[09:57]  * persia peers about
[09:57] <e-jat> wb persia
[09:57]  * MaWaLe tracks persia
[09:58] <hito_jp> hi all.
[09:58] <linuxmalaysia> hi all
[09:58] <GunbladeIV> hi hito_jp
[09:58] <umarzuki> hi
[09:59] <TheMuso> Hey folks.c
[09:59] <zaafouri> hi
[09:59] <MaWaLe> hey TheMuso
[09:59] <MaWaLe> hi folks
[10:00] <zulmalc_> hi all
[10:01] <persia> amachu said he'd be late.  Do we have elky and lifeless ?
[10:06] <PmDematagoda> hello, did I miss the meeting?
[10:06] <elky> hi
[10:06] <persia> PmDematagoda, Nope.  We're just getting organised.
[10:07] <persia> elky, Hey.
[10:07] <PmDematagoda> persia: ah, thanks :)
[10:07] <persia> So were waiting for one of lifeless or amachu, and we'll be all set.
[10:09] <khanh_coltech> hi all :)
[10:10] <PmDematagoda> hey khanh_coltech
[10:10] <khanh_coltech> sorry i'm late :)
[10:10] <PmDematagoda> khanh_coltech: the meeting hasnt started yet
[10:10] <hito_jp> hi khanh_coltech. dont worry, we are waiting for quorum.
[10:15] <persia> Hmm.  I think we're waiting for amachu then, who ought arrive around half-past.  lifeless doesn't appear to be here.  So if you're glued to the screen, you may wish to take a short break.
[10:18] <elky> mmm chocolate caaaake
[10:18] <elky> persia, that should make them hunt for food ;)
[10:18] <e-jat> elky: how bout ice cream :)
[10:18] <linuxmalaysia> yeah. Im feeling hungry now.
[10:19] <elky> e-jat, none of that in my freezer. i has the cake though. and it's cakey and chocolatey
[10:19] <umarzuki> i already ate ;-)
[10:19]  * e-jat still at the office ... freezer empty ..
[10:31] <elky> sorry, got disconnected. did i miss anything?
[10:31] <khanh_coltech> elky: nothing :)
[10:31] <persia> RIght.  amachu was planning to be only 30 minutes late.    There's other meetings happening later, and I think we didn't achieve quorum again :(
[10:55] <elky> yeah. we need that team expansion already
[10:55] <e-jat> hmm .. i cant contact belutz .. since he bz with something nowday ..
[10:56] <linuxmalaysia> Maybe ubuntu member from Malaysia can help on that
[10:56] <umarzuki> minimum applying member needed?
[11:00] <khanh_coltech> we will still wait?
[11:00] <ApOgEE-> hi BuffaloSoldier
[11:00] <BuffaloSoldier> hi ApOgEE-
[11:00] <ApOgEE-> BuffaloSoldier, how r u doing?
[11:00] <elky> we need suggestions for nominations of people who are members, who represent the region and are connected enough to know who people are and what is involved with most aspects of contribution
[11:01] <nbliang> elky, any guide on applying for it?
[11:02] <elky> if people know who you are and what you do, then they nominate you.
[11:03] <nbliang> noted
[11:03] <nbliang> can we nominate them here?
[11:04] <elky> you may want to check with them first. it's manners to do so.
[11:04] <ApOgEE-> the nominator is ubuntu member is it?
[11:04] <persia> nbliang, Also, please nominate by mail to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:04] <persia> ApOgEE-, Yes.
[11:04] <ApOgEE-> hi GunbladeIV
[11:05] <elky> it would be preferable. otherwise random joe 1 could nominate random joe 2
[11:05] <nbliang> elky: , persia : noted
[11:06] <GunbladeIV> ApOgEE-, hi ApOgEE- ..
[11:06] <TheMuso> c
[11:06] <GunbladeIV> elky, persia : so we will have a meeting due to not enough quorum isnt it?
[11:07] <elky> now, since the meeting seems like it will not happen, please take random chatter elsewhere so as not to pollute meeting logs.
[11:07] <GunbladeIV> s/will/will not/g
[11:07] <elky> GunbladeIV, yes, we lack quorum today
[11:08] <GunbladeIV> elky, okay.  Hope to be here again next time.(as a candidate)
[11:08] <umarzuki> when the next will be then?
[11:08] <elky> two weeks from now.
[11:11] <GunbladeIV> elky, noted.
[11:12] <TheMuso> In that case, unless there is anything else from either persia or elky, I shall return to my personal work. :)
[11:12] <ApOgEE-> uhh
[11:13] <persia> TheMuso, Good night.
[11:14] <umarzuki> thanks anyway
[12:11] <lifeless> persia: elky bah, tz confusion *again*
[12:11] <lifeless> sorry.
[12:31] <vorian> @now
[12:31] <vorian> grr
[12:32] <persia> vorian, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar
[12:33] <vorian> thanks persia
[13:00] <jkbys> こんばんわ
[13:01] <jkbys> oops
[13:01] <jkbys> wrong chat box, sorry
[15:01] <mdz> #startmeeting
[15:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mdz.
[15:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:02] <mdz> Technical Board meeting, 2009-03-24
[15:02] <mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk,sabdfl: ping
[15:02] <mdz> dholbach: ping
[15:02] <mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:02] <sabdfl> hello all
[15:02] <Keybuk> mdz: I'm here
[15:02] <cjwatson> here
[15:03] <mdz> I think we need dholbach for several of these items
[15:03] <mdz> vorian: are you here?
[15:03] <vorian> mdz: yes sir
[15:03] <mdz> cjwatson: can you cover archive reorg?
[15:04] <mdz> [TOPIC] Archive reorg (and corresponding governance changes)
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Archive reorg (and corresponding governance changes)
[15:04] <cjwatson> I had a phone call with Jono and Daniel to go over it
[15:04] <cjwatson> Daniel has been working on a timeline as a result of this
[15:05] <cjwatson> roughly, it puts us doing a transition of developer permissions in June
[15:05] <cjwatson> there are a number of decisions flagged for TB action along the way
[15:06] <mdz> anything we should start thinking about now?
[15:06] <cjwatson> we need to start preparing text about what's going to happen, to help developers
[15:06] <cjwatson> we need to decide on changes to the developer application process
[15:07] <cjwatson> and MOTU Council charter review I believe
[15:07] <cjwatson> we need to decide on a rough process for administering package sets
[15:07] <cjwatson> later on, we'll need to look at unifying processes for handling new packages
[15:08] <cjwatson> I'll get Daniel to send some more detail to technical-board@ to kick-start a discussion
[15:08] <mdz> cjwatson: thanks
[15:08] <mdz> cjwatson: is there anything we can/should cover in this meeting or shall we move on?
[15:08] <cjwatson> I think we can move on
[15:09] <mdz> [TOPIC] Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot
[15:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  Upload permission for Romain Francoise for 'emacs-snapshot
[15:09] <mdz> dholbach?
[15:09] <sabdfl> we won't have package sets for june, so we'll need to fake it on the permissions client
[15:09] <dholbach> mdz: around
[15:09] <sabdfl> ach, too slow :-)
[15:09] <dholbach> mdz: I mailed Romain and offered to help with the application, but got no reply yet
[15:09] <mdz> dholbach: how long ago?
[15:10] <dholbach> some time last week
[15:10] <dholbach> but Emmet mailed him a wek or two before that already
[15:10] <cjwatson> sabdfl: this is new information, and more pessimistic than I've been hearing from Julian and Muharem
[15:10] <dholbach> I'll try to locate him together with siretart
[15:11] <mdz> dholbach: shall we take this off of the TB list for now?  we can consider it MOTU Council territory until we hear otherwise
[15:11] <dholbach> mdz: yep, that's fin
[15:11] <dholbach> e
[15:11] <mdz> thanks
[15:11] <mdz> [TOPIC] codecs in ffmpeg
[15:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  codecs in ffmpeg
[15:11] <mdz> dholbach again
[15:11] <dholbach> mdz: no news I'm afraid - Amanda is still working on a general policy
[15:11] <dholbach> Jono and I have been in touch with her, it's still WIP
[15:12] <dholbach> no due date yet, will ask
[15:12] <mdz> dholbach: what can we do to help move it forward?
[15:12] <mdz> perhaps sabdfl would prefer to handle this more informally, I don't know
[15:12] <sabdfl> cjwatson: ok, i was being pessimistic, if you have better info, i'm happy to go with that
[15:13] <dholbach> mdz: I don't know - I haven't seen any of that work yet - I can try asking for a more detailed roadmap of the document if you like
[15:13] <mdz> sabdfl: we've asked for legal guidance on how we should handle this, but it has been stalled for a long time.  should we be doing something different?
[15:14] <sabdfl> mdz: i don't have good advice for you
[15:14] <cjwatson> sabdfl: Julian has been steering clear of giving me a firm date as yet, but he's been talking about the guts of the implementation happening during April - of course I'm OK with faking it client-side for the time being if that slips
[15:14] <cjwatson> (anyway, yes, we've moved on)
[15:14] <dholbach> mdz: it might help to split up the discussion
[15:14] <dholbach> mdz: siretart asked me two things: 1) is it good enough to disable the code that has to do with patents or does it need to be purged completely and
[15:15] <dholbach> 2) which codecs / which patents
[15:15] <sabdfl> mdz: i'm inclined to split patent claims into the "alleged" and "judge-tested" categories
[15:15] <sabdfl> we don't have the resources to separate claims except on the basis of court ink
[15:15] <sabdfl> i think.
[15:15] <cjwatson> also "expired" in some of these cases (which is not entirely facetious because some have expired in some jurisdictions but not others)
[15:16] <mdz> sabdfl: one of the questions is, if we have reason to be concerned about a particular patent, how do we respond?  is it OK to skip compiling the relevant code, or do we need to patch it out of the source?
[15:16] <cjwatson> I sent a mail a while back about the expiry situation of one of the ffmpeg patents
[15:16] <sabdfl> compile it out
[15:16] <mdz> cjwatson: indeed, jono has that email
[15:16] <cjwatson> of course, there is a well-known effect where a submarine holder pops up just before its expiry date, so "about to expire" is not de facto safe
[15:17] <mdz> dholbach: sabdfl has answered 1) above
[15:18] <dholbach> mdz: ok, I'll relay that to  siretart
[15:18] <mdz> sabdfl: what do you think we should do in each of those circumstances (alleged, judge-tested, expired)?
[15:21] <sabdfl> about to expire - jfdi
[15:21] <sabdfl> expired - ship it
[15:22] <sabdfl> judge-tested - escalate and consider
[15:22] <sabdfl> in each case, there would be an assessment of jurisdiction
[15:22] <sabdfl> if there is a judge-tested patent in andorra, would we not ship it? i think we would
[15:22] <sabdfl> this makes it very hard for me to say anything other than "we should review the cases"
[15:23] <sabdfl> so, who's "we"?
[15:23] <sabdfl> best answer i have there is canonical legal
[15:23] <dholbach> sabdfl: how do you think this process is going to work? "if concerned bring up with TB, they then get in touch with Canonical legal"?
[15:23] <sabdfl> that's a reasonable start, imo
[15:24] <cjwatson> realistically I suspect most of the interesting cases are going to be US and EU, with the odd case where it's expired in some jurisdictions but not others
[15:24] <cjwatson> sorry, US and/or EU
[15:24] <sabdfl> sorry that i can't provide stronger guidance
[15:24] <sabdfl> actually, maybe i can
[15:24] <mdz> sabdfl: I think the most common case is "alleged", so we most need the guidance there
[15:24] <sabdfl> but i need to caucus with Amanda on that
[15:26] <sabdfl> in general, i think any patent holder making such an allegation should raise it with the TB
[15:26] <sabdfl> i think third-party allegations aren't going to be sufficiently tangible for us to be able to invest time in parsing and considering them
[15:27] <sabdfl> i.e. if someone comes along and says "there is a patent that i think covers this code", i don't think we can usefully invest a lot of time in that
[15:27] <cjwatson> we need to split that into two cases: (1) code already in Ubuntu (2) code not already in Ubuntu
[15:27] <sabdfl> if someone comes along and says "i have a patent that i believe covers this code", then that's more manageable
[15:28] <mdz> that leads to a process like "the TB maintains a record of any patent allegations.  if a developer has a question or concern regarding a certain patent, they should contact the technical board, who will advise as to whether they are aware of an issue.  anyone who becomes aware of an allegation should forward it to the TB"
[15:28] <cjwatson> for (1) I agree; for (2) this guidance sounds like "ship it until we have good reason to believe we may not" but I would like clarity there as there are cases where complying with a cease-and-desist will be difficult
[15:29] <sabdfl> cjwatson: any cease-and-desist would be very difficult for us. copyright. trademark. patent. url-prefix.
[15:29] <sabdfl> we don't control the mirror network
[15:30] <cjwatson> indeed, so some level of avoidance is rational, but not necessarily panic-level avoidance
[15:30] <sabdfl> are you worried about specific cases more than others?
[15:30] <cjwatson> no, just a general point that I would like to avoid getting into a situation where we have to pull an Ubuntu release
[15:30] <sabdfl> msft's suit against tom-tom - does that mean we should remove FAT support from Hardy?
[15:30] <sabdfl> i think not, myself
[15:31] <cjwatson> presumably the amount of risk we're willing to take depends somewhat on the usefulness of the technology to us
[15:32] <cjwatson> FAT is extremely useful; an individual media codec, say, may be less so
[15:32] <sabdfl> well, a lawyer could turn that into "presumably our willingness to steal depends on the value of the jewels"
[15:32] <cjwatson> granted
[15:32] <sabdfl> and i don't think that would be a correct characterisation of our approach
[15:33] <sabdfl> i would say that our approach is more "we will engage with rights holders openly"
[15:33] <cjwatson> in the msft case I'm not sure the facts are clear yet, nor that msft has made any kind of general statement about the situation of fat
[15:33] <sabdfl> so far, we haven't had any rights-holders engage with us
[15:33] <sabdfl> they've said that this suit is NOT a prelude to a general series of suits
[15:33] <sabdfl> but, they've also acted in ways that suggest it might be
[15:34] <sabdfl> however, microsoft violates many patents, and is often found in court to be doing so
[15:34] <cjwatson> what I meant by (2) above was a process for archive administrators to follow when dealing with new packages that are alleged to have some level of patent risk associated with them
[15:34] <mdz> I suggest we wrap up this topic in the next 5 minutes to allow time for the rest of the agenda
[15:34] <sabdfl> so, i'm sure they would have raised any issues with us that they are concerned about, being familiar with the system
[15:34] <cjwatson> in that case, the rights holder is not going to have engaged with us yet, since we aren't shipping it yet
[15:34] <sabdfl> good point
[15:34] <sabdfl> ok, for shipping code, we'll engage with rights holders
[15:35] <sabdfl> for code that is proposed, allegations or concerns should be raised with the TB
[15:35] <sabdfl> and we'll decide what to do
[15:35] <sabdfl> perhaps in consultation with canonical-legal or SFLC or OIN
[15:35] <mdz> sabdfl: ok, that brings us full circle.  siretart has raised a concern with the TB and we need to decide what to do :-)
[15:35] <sabdfl> thanks mdz :-)
[15:35] <sabdfl> are there any new codecs proposed for inclusion in ffmpeg for jaunty?
[15:36]  * dholbach doesn't know
[15:36] <mdz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/254201
[15:36] <cjwatson> siretart: ^- ?
[15:38] <mdz> it looks like, in the absence of guidance from the TB, several codecs have been disabled
[15:38] <sabdfl> can they be split into a separate package, easily enough?
[15:39] <mdz> they have been, see the bug
[15:39] <mdz> it's now split between main and multiverse
[15:39] <sabdfl> can we detect when a codec is needed, that is available in another package, and prompt the user?
[15:39] <cjwatson> we do
[15:41] <mdz> I don't know how it's currently implemented in this case
[15:41] <cjwatson> or at any rate totem does
[15:41] <sabdfl> does the prompt say "this functionality may be subject to a patent, your rights may vary based on your location"? then i think this is fine.
[15:41] <mdz> cjwatson: my hunch is that that doesn't cover this case
[15:41] <cjwatson> nevertheless, some of these codecs are rather old and the more we can ship in the default install the better users' experience will be
[15:41] <cjwatson> mdz: mine too, I see mention of things like Empathy
[15:41] <mdz> totem will install gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg, which is dependent upon libavcodec52 | libavcodec-unstripped-52
[15:41] <cjwatson> mm, of course
[15:41] <mdz> the latter is complete, the former not
[15:41] <cjwatson> and it has to be that way round for a variety of reasons
[15:42] <mdz> so this is a regression
[15:42] <sabdfl> i would be inclined to say, that if we have not heard from alleged rights holders for an extended period of time, and a patent is near expiration, then code can be shipped as part fo the default install
[15:42] <mdz> we have to close this topic for now so that we can move on
[15:42] <mdz> vorian is waiting
[15:42] <sabdfl> ok
[15:43] <mdz> cjwatson/sabdfl: can one of you take an action to write up what you just agreed?
[15:43] <sabdfl> i can do that and mail the TB
[15:44] <mdz> [ACTION] sabdfl to document consensus regarding policy and process for patent concerns
[15:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to document consensus regarding policy and process for patent concerns
[15:44] <mdz> thanks
[15:44] <mdz> [TOPIC] Steve Stalcup (vorian) for ubuntu-core-dev
[15:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Steve Stalcup (vorian) for ubuntu-core-dev
[15:44] <mdz> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/technical-board/2009-February/003011.html
[15:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/private/technical-board/2009-February/003011.html
[15:44] <mdz> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
[15:44] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StephenStalcup/CoreDeveloperApplication
[15:45] <cjwatson> we're a little late here, having dropped the ball when motu-council first notified us
[15:45] <cjwatson> Steve reminded me about this after the last meeting so I put it on the agenda
[15:45] <mdz> sorry, better link for the first one
[15:45] <mdz> [TOPIC] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002033.html
[15:45] <MootBot> New Topic:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2009-February/002033.html
[15:45] <vorian> thanks cjwatson :)
[15:46] <mdz> vorian mentioned Riddell as a present sponsor
[15:46] <mdz> Riddell: are you here?
[15:46] <Riddell> hi
[15:46] <Riddell> I entirely advocate vorian, he's a very capable packager and extreamly useful member of the kubuntu ninjas (KDE packaging team)
[15:46] <Keybuk> brb
[15:47] <Riddell> he took over much of the ninjas process when apachelogger had to leave so has filled in an important gap
[15:47] <Riddell> but it would be useful to have more of us who can upload to main so it's not reliant on me for that
[15:47] <Riddell> and vorian is a top candidate there
[15:48] <cjwatson> vorian: you described a period of frustration while you were learning about packaging. As a core developer you would be looked to for advice by up-and-coming packagers. How would you advise them to approach getting started?
[15:48] <Keybuk> back
[15:49] <vorian> cjwatson: I would first try and understand where their frustrations lay.  It could be one of may areas.  Then help them learn the next small steps
[15:50] <mdz> vorian: what is the current freeze status of jaunty, and what are some examples of what you should and should not upload at the present time?  how about next week?
[15:50] <cjwatson> vorian: (what were your areas of frustration?)
[15:52] <vorian> mdz: well, we are in beta freeze at the moment. any main package upload is really not a good idea. universe bug fixes are ok as long as they have a ffe and are accepted by an archive admin
[15:52] <sabdfl> vorian: "not a good idea" meaning no packages should be uploaded?
[15:53] <mdz> vorian: (feel free to finish answering cjwatson before moving on to my question)
[15:53] <vorian> cjwatson: i had trouble with the jargin, once I was able to pick up the lingo - it was easy going
[15:53] <cjwatson> mm, I agree that the Ubuntu development community is often rather too jargon-heavy
[15:53] <sabdfl> vorian: which main packages would you like to work on between now and the end of next week, and how would you coordinate that?
[15:53] <vorian> not a good idea as in none
[15:54] <vorian> sabdfl: KDE 4.2.2 is being released next Tuesday, so for the rest of this week and into next, I'll be working on the core stack
[15:55] <sabdfl> will those packages land in main pre-release? when, and what would be done differently given the timing?
[15:55] <JontheEchidna> KDE 4.2.2 is actually being released exactly a week from tomorrow, coincidentally
[15:55] <cjwatson> vorian: pretend I know nothing about libdb - can you explain to me what the difficulty is in moving applications to new libdb versions?
[15:55] <vorian> cjwatson: ok
[15:55] <cjwatson> vorian: (like mdz said above, feel free to finish answering sabdfl before moving on to my question)
[15:56] <mdz> (my question still needs more answering)
[15:56] <vorian> sabdfl: we will be needint lots of pre-uploading quality checking given the freeze
[15:56]  * nixternal notes to cjwatson everyong pretends they know nothing about libdb :)
[15:56] <vorian> needing*
[15:57] <vorian> mdz: sorry,
[15:57] <mdz> vorian: no worries, we threw a lot of questions at you at once
[15:57] <mdz> we should be more organized
[15:57] <mdz> or perhaps, we're doing a good job at simulating the real-world chaos of ubuntu development ;-)
[15:57] <vorian> mdz: after beta is released, all packages will need freeze exceptions - and archive admin approval - after a thoruough job of qa and testing is done
[15:58] <vorian> :)
[15:58] <vorian> mdz: true :)
[15:59] <cjwatson> nixternal: wouldn't be much of a test if I didn't know the answer ;-)
[15:59] <vorian> cjwatson: as for libdb, pretend each version is called something else (ie, 4.2 == apple, 4.3 == orange, 4.4 == pear, etc..)
[16:00] <mdz> vorian: you said that during beta freeze, uploads to main were not a good idea.  however, you can see on jaunty-changes that uploads are still happening
[16:00] <vorian> there are a set of packages that depend on "apple" and we are trying to get rid of "apple" so we see if they will build and function with "pear"
[16:00] <cjwatson> hey, that's not a bad analogy. What do applications have to do when transitioning from one to another?
[16:00] <mdz> vorian: mvo uploaded update-manager just today.  did he make an error?
[16:00] <cjwatson> e.g. source changes, dependency changes, making sure database contents are preserved accurately, etc.
[16:01] <vorian> mdz: I understand that during the beta freeze, there is testing done and bugs related to the release are still uploaded.
[16:01] <vorian> as for ISO's and upgrades
[16:01] <mdz> vorian: bugs related to the beta release?  or to the 9.04 release?
[16:02]  * vorian is not 100% sure
[16:03] <mdz> vorian: where would you go to find either of those lists of bugs?
[16:04] <mdz> (you can finish answering cjwatson first)
[16:04] <vorian> i would go to qa.ubuntu.com
[16:04] <mdz> we're over time but I would like to finish here rather than carry over to the next meeting
[16:04] <mdz> Keybuk: any questions for vorian?
[16:05] <cjwatson> I don't see any relevant links on qa.ubuntu.com ...
[16:05] <Keybuk> mdz: none from me, you both covered the basics
[16:05] <cjwatson> aside from the one to Launchpad
[16:05] <mdz> no, I don't think that the release bug list is available there (though maybe it should be)
[16:05] <mdz> cjwatson: heh, you mean href=http://launchpad.net/ ? :-)
[16:05] <mdz> that is not a very useful link
[16:06] <cjwatson> quite
[16:06] <vorian> i don't know that link, however i find the list of bugs next to each iso test useful at times
[16:06] <cjwatson> ah, yes, that is a useful resource
[16:07] <cjwatson> (I'm still waiting for an answer to my libdb transitioning question, fwiw)
[16:07] <vorian> ah, sorry
[16:08] <vorian> Applications must not have any regressions when moving from one depends or build-depends
[16:09] <vorian> so, firstly it must build correctly, all files being built and installed correctly in the binaries
[16:09] <vorian> then it must install correctly on ones system
[16:09] <cjwatson> sorry, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I should clarify that I'm specifically asking about what changes need to be made, not how those changes should be tested
[16:09] <vorian> and must behave *just* as it always has (given it isn't riddled with bugs)
[16:12] <mdz> we're well over time
[16:12] <cjwatson> I don't feel that my question has been answered
[16:12] <vorian> with libdb, it was a matter of changing the version in control
[16:12] <cjwatson> ah, typing lag
[16:12] <mdz> vorian: I think cjwatson is looking for a more specific answer
[16:13] <mdz> (note: sabdfl had to leave to make another meeting)
[16:13] <mdz> and I will need to do the same shortly
[16:13] <cjwatson> there are some applications that need more than simply being recompiled against the new version of libdb, for instance
[16:13] <vorian> cjwatson: about the specific changes to the package?  I changed the applicable versions in the debian/changelog.  No source changes were needed with many.  If there were, I tried to get it done upstream, as opposed to patching them
[16:14] <vorian> cjwatson: is that more what you are looking for?
[16:15] <cjwatson> well, not really, I was looking for the sorts of changes that would actually need to be made to the code, and how you would recognise when this needs to be done
[16:15] <mdz> sorry, folks, but we need to wrap this up
[16:15] <cjwatson> but I realise that we're over time
[16:16] <mdz> cjwatson,Keybuk: how would you like to proceed?
[16:16] <cjwatson> shall we go to a vote?
[16:17] <mdz> vorian: I'm not very confident that we can approve your application based on the Q&A so far
[16:18] <vorian> ok
[16:18] <cjwatson> my vote was going to be 0: I've not really been very satisfied with the answers to the questions I asked; on the other hand my belief is that vorian is conscientious and will ask when he's out of his depth, and it's clear that he knows what he's doing with Kubuntu and will be a valuable contributor there
[16:18] <vorian> I'm done then
[16:18] <nixternal> WHAT?
[16:18]  * nixternal head desks
[16:19] <mdz> nixternal: will you talk to him once he calms down?
[16:19] <cjwatson> blink, and I was going to suggest things that could be improved
[16:19] <nixternal> mdz: sure thing
[16:20] <nixternal> I will give him a call later this afternoon
[16:20] <mdz> nixternal: please let him know that we would like to help him complete the process in time
[16:20] <cjwatson> (FWIW, the answer to the question I was pressing on is on [[https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap#Get rid of old libdb versions]], so I don't feel it was unfair)
[16:21] <mdz> (sorry, was having a side conversation with nixternal)
[16:21] <nixternal> hehe, ya just saw that and responded :)
[16:22] <mdz> we need to wrap up, we'll carry over the remaining agenda item to next week
[16:22] <mdz> #endmeeting
[16:22] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:22.
[16:22] <nixternal> thanks guys and I am sorry that he just left like that, I will chat with him a little later
[16:22] <cjwatson> that was disappointing; I hope he calms down
[16:22] <nixternal> ya, I have never seen him emotional/upset like that in 2+ years
[16:22] <nixternal> and in person
[16:23] <mdz> these things happen, we'll work it out
[16:23] <cjwatson> I got the impression he froze up a bit under pressure of questions
[16:23] <cjwatson> so perhaps we should consider a different format
[16:23] <nixternal> hehe, I referred to it as a "Feeding Frenzy"
[16:23] <cjwatson> since pressure of questions is not really the best model for Ubuntu development
[16:23] <cjwatson> (at least not with a time limit measured in minutes)
[16:23] <nixternal> right
[16:24] <davmor2> cjwatson: maybe a mentor for a month
[16:24] <mdz> I've long felt that the format for this is not really ideal
[16:25] <mdz> the alternative, I think, is something much more structured and heavyweight like NM
[16:25] <nixternal> I always liked teh NM way
[16:59] <pgraner> About time to start the weekly kernel IRC meeting...
[16:59]  * manjo waves
[16:59]  * cking is here
[17:00]  * ikepanhc waves
[17:00]  * lieb is here
[17:00]  * maco is watching
[17:00]  * smb_tp hastly arrives
[17:00]  * sconklin -
[17:00] <pgraner> #startmeeting
[17:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is pgraner.
[17:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:00] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Action Items
[17:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Action Items
[17:02] <pgraner> awe to report back to kernel-team on LPIA testing status
[17:02] <pgraner> awe: Any update?
[17:02]  * apw is here
[17:02] <awe> pgraner: i've built the latest lpia kernel and tested on the hp mini
[17:02] <awe> pgraner: looks good.  i'm about to send an email to the team to try and get more coverage across other netbooks
[17:02] <pgraner> awe: great... thanks, pls email kernel-team and give us the thumbs up when complete
[17:03] <pgraner> [ACTION] awe to inform kernel-team when LPIA kernel testing is complete
[17:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  awe to inform kernel-team when LPIA kernel testing is complete
[17:03] <awe> pgraner: ok, will send an update to the mailing list in time for next week's mtg
[17:03] <pgraner> * apw to inform ogasawara when revised CFT can go out
[17:03] <pgraner> apw: you good to go?
[17:03] <ogasawara> pgraner: apw and I agreed there was no added benefit for another CFT since the script isn't integrated into checkbox, only packaged with it.  we end up manually running the same script anyways.
[17:03] <apw> we have done some testing with the installed version and it seems to be identicle (as it should be)
[17:04] <pgraner> ogasawara, apw: sounds reasonable
[17:04] <pgraner> * smb to send manjo bug on Dell server hw issue on Hardy
[17:04] <smb_tp> done
[17:04] <manjo> yes
[17:05] <pgraner> * ogasawara to issue CFT around ext4 data loss patches
[17:05] <manjo> waiting on hardware to become available
[17:05] <ogasawara> pgraner: that one missed my todo list last week.  although comments from the bug indicate the patches fix the issue.
[17:06] <pgraner> ogasawara: I'd highlight it when Beta goes live, this way we can get some extra eyes on it
[17:06] <ogasawara> pgraner: sounds good.  I'll make sure it gets noted
[17:06] <pgraner> There are a few outstanding actions on the list but they will get resolved at the Kernel Sprint next week. So I will drop them from the IRC meeting agenda
[17:07] <pgraner> There is only one that needs to be brought up here:
[17:07] <pgraner> sconklin create wiki page showing lpia source structure and repos for various releases
[17:07] <pgraner> sconklin: ETA on that?
[17:07] <sconklin> pgraner: after Lex sprint
[17:08] <pgraner> sconklin: ok, do you want me to keep it on the agenda?
[17:08] <sconklin> pgraner: no need to, I think
[17:08] <pgraner> sconklin: ack
[17:08] <pgraner> Moving on then...
[17:08] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels
[17:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels
[17:08] <smb_tp> This week not much. I am still mostly stuck with CVE and Hardy proposed is stuck in the accept queue with some hope to be released tomorrow.
[17:09] <pgraner> smb_tp: ok.. when do you expect the Intrepid updates to slow down
[17:09] <sconklin> smb_tp: I still don't know what wil/should get pulled into the hardy branch from that
[17:10] <apw> sounds like something to discuss at sprint
[17:10] <smb_tp> pgraner, Ours? We are actually down to just fixing the regression bugs
[17:10] <smb_tp> So it is slowed down
[17:10] <smb_tp> sconklin, From what?
[17:10] <sconklin> hardy security updates
[17:10] <pgraner> smb_tp: 2.6.27-14.30, was very hefty
[17:11] <smb_tp> I would would have to have a look, but I think that was the last one which included stable releases from upstream
[17:12] <smb_tp> No actually that were not that many new ones
[17:12] <pgraner> smb_tp: ok, we need to revisit the stable updates frequency at the sprint
[17:13] <smb_tp> pgraner, 6 including a revert
[17:13] <apw> smb_tp, yes it was the one wich included 27.18 stable update amongst others
[17:13] <smb_tp> pgraner, What you probably see is the changlog currently including all updates since the last release to updates
[17:13] <pgraner> smb_tp: Ok, then I'm reading the change log wrong it looks to be about 25+ changes
[17:14] <pgraner> smb_tp: Thats broke then
[17:14] <smb_tp> pgraner, Not broke but as done for stable updates
[17:14] <pgraner> smb_tp: we should be able to see exactly what went in to the upload clearly
[17:15] <smb_tp> We are aksed to include the full history up to the last point the kernel was released to updates
[17:15] <cjwatson> pgraner: what are you using to look at the changelog?
[17:15] <pgraner> smb_tp: thats fine however we should be able to see whats in each rev
[17:15] <smb_tp> You should see that. But maybe its simple to miss the start of the previous uploads
[17:15] <pgraner> smb_tp: ok we'll take it offline
[17:15] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Jaunty Status
[17:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Jaunty Status
[17:15] <smb_tp> pgraner, ack
[17:15] <pgraner> rtg: how do we look?
[17:16] <rtg> pgraner: the only serious issue that I'm aware of is a degraded raid boot problem.
[17:16] <rtg> apw, anything else that you can think of?
[17:17]  * apw scans the list
[17:17] <rtg> it looks the ARM AA issue was solved
[17:17] <apw> nothing i can think of right now
[17:17] <pgraner> rtg: how is kerneloops & crashdump looking?
[17:17] <rtg> I'm looking at kexec-tools on 32 bit.
[17:17] <apw> there is some new stuff coming in about the CRDA stuff, but only affecting people who used the old options
[17:17] <rtg> 64 bit still appears to work.
[17:17] <apw> so not very serious
[17:18] <pgraner> apw: ack
[17:18] <rtg> so, no show stoppers.
[17:18] <apw> the degraded raid problem has just resurfaced having looked fixed
[17:18] <pgraner> rtg: how is kerneloops? working as advertised?
[17:19]  * apw notes it is not installed on his machine, which is at the latest jaunty
[17:19] <rtg> pgraner: dunno, I though someone in the foundation team took that on?
[17:19] <manjo> pgraner, I did some testing last fri
[17:19] <pgraner> rtg: for Karmic, we still have it for this release
[17:19] <pgraner> manjo: working?
[17:19] <manjo> and I sent you a mail with the test results last fri
[17:20] <manjo> yes working as advertised
[17:20] <pgraner> manjo: ok, I'm still on Thurs. mail
[17:20] <manjo> except for the fact that with broken
[17:20] <apw> manjo, did you have to opt in to get it, ie install it manually?
[17:20] <manjo> synaptic mouse you will get
[17:20] <manjo> false positives
[17:20] <apw> manjo, that is fixed in the next kernel upload which removes the warning
[17:20] <manjo> apw, yes
[17:20] <pgraner> manjo: ok, I'm assuming there is a bug filed on that?
[17:20] <manjo> pgraner, ^^
[17:20] <pgraner> manjo: ack
[17:20] <apw> so we should be good for beta
[17:21] <apw> manjo, did your testing incldue whether it uploaded to the real kerneloops web site?
[17:21] <manjo> no I used the script from lieb to use local
[17:22] <manjo> but I think the 1st couple of attempts I made were with kerneloops.org
[17:22] <apw> might be nice to get a test to the real site done (but we can discuss offline)
[17:22] <manjo> k
[17:22] <pgraner> manjo: we should ping Arjan and ask him how we can test the actual submission
[17:22] <manjo> pgraner, ack
[17:23] <pgraner> [ACTION] manjo to ping Arjan on kerneloops submission testing
[17:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  manjo to ping Arjan on kerneloops submission testing
[17:23] <pgraner> apw: How are we doing on Suspend/Resume, both bug triage and bug repair?
[17:23] <apw> We have put together a basic Trigage and Debugging guide for suspend/resume
[17:23] <apw> and hibernate/resume, so we can simply point apport bug reports at
[17:23] <apw> a simple wiki page.  This should allow quicker triaging at our end:
[17:23] <apw>   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspendHibernateResume
[17:23] <apw> i have pushed the button on a number of the bugs, and i believe manjo has been helping out too
[17:23] <apw> will take a few days to get through the backlog.  then we can review the progress
[17:24] <manjo> yes I am looking at a list of 75 odd bugs apw pointed me to
[17:24] <ogasawara> apw:  I'll help sorting through those
[17:24] <apw> ogasawara, that would be cool.  i have a one liner i paste in to start them on the path
[17:25] <manjo> apw, most of the bugs are opened as kerneloops but I can see no oops msg in the logs
[17:25] <apw> "Could you please follow the triage and debugging guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspendHibernateResume) and report back here."
[17:25] <apw> manjo, yes they have that tag, but they are a separate class
[17:25] <manjo> k
[17:25] <apw> we do need to do some more work on the tags to help us tell them appart
[17:26] <apw> pgraner, could you action me to talk to pitti on the direction there
[17:26] <pgraner> [ACTION] apw to talk to pitti about tags in apport
[17:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to talk to pitti about tags in apport
[17:26] <apw> ack
[17:27] <pgraner> Ok, moving on
[17:27] <pgraner> [TOPIC] ARM
[17:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM
[17:27] <pgraner> amitk, bradF: hows things?
[17:28] <bradF> pgraner: looks like the AA issue just turned out to be a config dependency issue
[17:28] <bradF> pgraner: will submit a patch shortly
[17:28] <cooloney> pgraner, right, i can confirm that
[17:29] <pgraner> bradF: are we turning it on post beta or just running with out it for the release?
[17:29] <amitk> with that patch, the babbage kernel should be good *with* AA support
[17:29] <rtg> pgraner: post beta
[17:29] <pgraner> cool
[17:29] <pgraner> Any other ARMism we should know about?
[17:30] <amitk> also two flavours have been ripped out, so we now ship with 4 flavours
[17:30] <amitk> this should be in the beta kernel
[17:30] <pgraner> 4? I thought it should be 3?
[17:30] <rtg> amitk: we're native on Babbage now, right?
[17:30] <amitk> iop32x, versatile, ixp4xx and imx51
[17:30] <amitk> rtg: yes we are
[17:31] <pgraner> amitk: whats the iop32x? Do we have hw?
[17:31] <amitk> yes, thecus
[17:31] <amitk> there are a few in the company
[17:31] <cooloney> pgraner, lool has the iop32x hardware
[17:31] <amitk> and it is fixed and works
[17:31] <pgraner> amitk: when I asked the mobile team yesterday they did not raise it as being dropped
[17:32] <pgraner> amitk: ok, I don't want to get into a support issue for hw thats not on the roadmap
[17:33] <amitk> pgraner: not sure about your chat with mobile team
[17:33] <amitk> but iop32x was not on the chopping block yesterday
[17:33] <pgraner> amitk: when dropping the other flavors I listed 3 flavors to them (davidm) and there was no objection
[17:34] <rtg> iop32x being one of them?
[17:34] <bradF> pgraner: which 3 did you talk about?
[17:34] <cooloney> pgraner, amitk i guess iop32x is for next release karmic
[17:34] <pgraner> rtg: yes I asked you about it yesterday, and you said you were going to talk to amitk
[17:34] <cooloney> lool said to me they thought iop32x might be dropped for karmic
[17:34] <amitk> pgraner: seems to be a miscommunication. I don't seem to have recommended iop32x on the chopping block since I knew we had some HW and it worked
[17:34] <cooloney> not jaunty
[17:35] <pgraner> It is what it is for beta. We'll take it up in person next week.
[17:35] <amitk> akc
[17:35] <cooloney> amitk, right
[17:35] <amitk> not much else here
[17:36] <pgraner> [TOPIC] LPIA
[17:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  LPIA
[17:36] <pgraner> sconklin: what say you?
[17:36] <sconklin> I resynced from the netbook trees again, everything else is scheduled for the sprint
[17:36] <pgraner> sconklin: ack
[17:37] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs
[17:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs
[17:37] <pgraner> ogasawara: ^^^^^^^^^^ you're up.
[17:37] <ogasawara> pgraner: 4 bugs to note . . .
[17:37] <ogasawara> bug 337929 - reporter notes this affects jaunty as well as intrepid-proposed
[17:37] <ogasawara> bug 346691 - points to possible git commit causing the issue
[17:37] <ogasawara> bug 299708
[17:37] <ogasawara> bug 344812
[17:37] <ogasawara> the first two appear to be regressions
[17:37] <rtg> destroy system seems kind of harsh.
[17:38]  * amitk likes the title of bug 346691 :-)
[17:38] <apw> ogasawara, i have the first one, looks like its an interaction between CRDA settings in the kernel and l-b-m
[17:38] <rtg> apw: it shouldn't cause an oops, though
[17:38] <apw> right, clearly a bug
[17:39] <apw> on the i915 thing, there is a lot of instability all over the map
[17:39] <apw> in i915 users right now, looking like its appeared since 2.6.28-8
[17:39] <rtg> apw: stable updates has a bunch of i915 stuff
[17:39] <apw> thats all in 2.6.28-11 though right?
[17:40] <rtg> no, its on deck
[17:40] <rtg> waiting until after Beta is released
[17:40] <apw> ahh so in our tree but not released?
[17:40] <rtg> correct
[17:40] <ogasawara> I'll post a comment to that bug then to retest after Beta
[17:41] <apw> ok, excellent, as one of those affected, i'll go make a kernel from our tip for "us" to test
[17:41] <manjo> apw, I saw some i915 erros in the netbooks
[17:41] <rtg> ogasawara: the dell mini bug is kind of bogus.
[17:41] <apw> so i'll get you a copy of the kernel too
[17:42] <ogasawara> rtg: is it getting the security updates?
[17:42] <rtg> its an OEM team update issue. don't they supply the kernel?
[17:42] <pgraner> rtg: depends on if they are running stock ubuntu or not
[17:43] <apw> i believe it may become our problem once we take over the netbook trees
[17:43] <pgraner> apw: wrong it will be sconklin's prob :-D
[17:43] <rtg> in the meantime I vote we stick awe with it.
[17:43]  * apw was being nice to sconklin
[17:43] <awe> ;/
[17:43] <cking> heh
[17:44] <pgraner> ogasawara: anything else?
[17:44] <sconklin> apw: why should you be?
[17:44] <ogasawara> pgraner: nope, that's it
[17:44] <sconklin> :)
[17:44] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[17:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[17:44] <pgraner> Floor is open
[17:45] <apw> rtg althogugh there were drm updated in 28.9, actually they were all already applied and there is zero drm delta from what i have installed to the top of our jaunty tree
[17:45] <rtg> karmic is updated to 2.6.29, but doesn't compile yet.
[17:45] <rtg> apw: yeah, I did cherry-pick some stuff
[17:46] <apw> i presume karmic will stablise for a bit now .29 has hit the shelves
[17:46] <pgraner> rtg: we will need to back usbstorage out of the monolithic kernel and make it a module
[17:46] <rtg> pgraner: you'll have to convince me why thats a good idea.
[17:46] <pgraner> rtg: its causing issues with some 3g cards and the only way to give it module params
[17:47] <pgraner> rtg: is to give it on the grub command line
[17:47] <apw> can you not supply those params on the kernel command line via grub?
[17:47] <rtg> maybe we should fix the 3G drivers
[17:47] <pgraner> apw: yea but it breaks the hal set up as it tries to pass params as part of the loading
[17:47] <pgraner> rtg: there is no 3g driver usbserial is it
[17:47] <apw> ick
[17:48] <pgraner> rtg: in the cases that are broke
[17:48] <keffie_jayx> tu-hn
[17:48] <pgraner> rtg: the option driver drives 80% of the cards the others are with usbserial
[17:48] <rtg> I _really_ like having USB built in, it solves so many other issues.
[17:48] <pgraner> rtg: not USB, just usbserial
[17:48] <cooloney> pgraner, making usbstorage as a module is ok for imx51 babbage board?
[17:49] <rtg> um, you wanted usbserial for console debug, you're willing to lose that?
[17:49] <apw> hrm, that was the one which was essential built in for early usb serial console
[17:49] <cooloney> sometimes, we needs to boot up with rootfs on usb disk
[17:49] <amitk> cooloney: no problem for imx51, we will have initramfs
[17:49] <pgraner> rtg: we're gonna have to or regress users, and work them around with a crappy grub commandline
[17:49] <cooloney> amitk, ok, i see
[17:50] <rtg> pgraner: but you'er only talking about usbserial, right?
[17:50] <pgraner> rtg: we can build custom debug kernels with usbserial
[17:50] <pgraner> rtg: yes
[17:50] <rtg> pgraner: ok, I'm fine with that.
[17:50] <cking> ..we don't use usbserial that much do we?
[17:50] <pgraner> rtg: I'll send you the bug number
[17:50] <cking> ..for debug that is
[17:50] <amitk> cking: it is a debug method of last resort
[17:50] <rtg> when pgraner said usbstorage I though there  was some crack involved.
[17:51] <cooloney> cking, i use usbserial to talk my babbage borad
[17:51]  * cking has used to for kernel debug too
[17:51] <pgraner> rtg: sorry that was a typo
[17:51] <rtg> cooloney: you can also build your own kernels
[17:51] <rtg> pgraner: have you files a bug?
[17:51] <rtg> filed*
[17:51] <cooloney> rtg, do you mean kernel for babbage?
[17:51] <pgraner> rtg: yep
[17:51] <rtg> pgraner: stick me on it?
[17:52] <cooloney> i can build it with cross compiler
[17:52] <pgraner> rtg: I'll dig it up and send it to you
[17:52] <rtg> pgraner: just assign it too me.
[17:52] <pgraner> rtg: ack
[17:52] <pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to assign usbserial bug to rtg
[17:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to assign usbserial bug to rtg
[17:52] <pgraner> Anything else in open discussion
[17:53] <rtg> cooloney: I meant that ,in general, you can build your own kernels with special debug features such as usbserial
[17:53] <cooloney> rtg, yeah, i can do that
[17:53] <apw> nothing here
[17:53] <rtg> done?
[17:53] <lieb> or here
[17:53] <sconklin> nil
[17:53] <cking> silence
[17:53] <pgraner> [TOPIC] Next Meeting
[17:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next Meeting
[17:54] <cooloney> rtg no
[17:54] <cooloney> i dont touch usbserial things in kernel
[17:54] <pgraner> Since we are all at the sprint I propose that we cancel the meeting for next week and resume on 7 Apr.
[17:54] <apw> ack
[17:54] <manjo> ask
[17:54] <smb_tp> ack
[17:54] <cooloney> just usb usbserial in my pc not babbage board
[17:54] <rtg> especially since most of us will be traveling on Tues
[17:54] <cooloney> ack
[17:54] <ikepanhc> ack
[17:54] <cking> indeed
[17:54] <bradF> ack
[17:55] <pgraner> Ok next meeting on 7 Apr.
[17:55] <pgraner> Thanks everyone...
[17:55] <pgraner> #endmeeting
[17:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:55.
[17:55] <manjo> pgraner, thanks
[18:07] <apw> pgraner, you sent me a link to the irc log for last weeks meeting where was that
[18:10] <pgraner> apw: once sec


[17:39] <infoturtle> Any locations confirmed for the UGJ??
[17:40] <slashtommy> none, everyone is busy
[17:40] <czajkowski> the date didnt suit that weekend
[17:40] <czajkowski> but ye could run one another weekend if there was interest
[17:41] <infoturtle> ok cool, if Galway/Dublin are doing one another weekend I'd plan the Limerick one for then too.


[02:00] <phillw> charlie-tca: I got two jockey crashes followed by a Ubiquity crash on my VM. Until they narrow the crashes down, there is little I can do when the Jockey bug affects over 100 people on testing area. Such are the joys of alphas! When the beta 2 ones get cracking, I'll start to multi partition my hard drive for them. Whilst the installer is having problems, it really does seem to me a bit of waste of time and effort for me to take down my o
[02:09]  * phillw but of course I and lots of others could be totally wrong when we say there is a problem... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/+bugs?field.searchtext=jockey&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.a
[03:00] <charlie-tca> I see. All my testing is on hardware, since Unity doesn't work so good in a VM.
[03:23] <phillw> charlie-tca: once we get to beta, I will slice my hard disk into little pieces, I recall drs305 (Dave Stan) pondering at my having 10 installs under grub at boot time :)
[22:44] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Whilst I got your message last week, I was on vacation last week. Will take a look at that bug this week.
[22:45] <charlie-tca> Thanks. I did realize that after I asked.
[22:45] <charlie-tca> I had held off on it for three days or so, too.


[11:23] <enyc> ebarretto: "enyc, we are aware of the delay in thunderbird and browsing packages and we are had discussions last week to try to address it and get more people involved in the process of doing those sponsoring"
[11:23] <enyc> ebarretto: has this change been successful, a blocker, ...?  Thunderbird seems to be substantially behind again.
[11:24] <enyc> not meaning to nag, wondering who can help get right people together, or get linux-foundation sponsorship or otherwise!
[11:24] <ebarretto> nishit_, do you know it there is any thunderbird update ready?
[11:25] <ebarretto> enyc, nevertheless we just got back from the holidays, so both thunderbird and ff are behind and I know that ff is failing to build for some architectures
[11:36] <enyc> ebarretto: may not be quite so simple but somebody talked about / suggested sharing with debian packaging for thunderbird as use the same LTS releases etc.
[15:24] <teward> ebarretto: if sponsoring or upload powers are needed for anything, once again I offer my coredev upload rights for main repos, -updates uploads if needed.
[15:24] <teward> i can't poke -security but I can offer my coredev upload rights if Security needs it to expedite things
[15:25] <teward> (this is a standing offer I've made to Sec team if they've needed it, that offer still stands despite my not being on the Security team, happy to sign any NDAs, etc. needed if you need the extra uploaders)
[15:27] <ebarretto> teward, thanks! and happy new year!  in this specific case thunderbird and firefox are prepared by the desktop team we just sponsor them to -security
[15:27] <teward> ack, just making sure that it's made known my offer still stands if non-security needs pokes
[15:27] <teward> i know that SEcurity has limited uploaders who can touch outside of -security for obscure cases so always happy to help :)
[15:28] <teward> so as long as i'm not bedridden by some megabug or medical emergency, and so long as work doesn't keep me busy 24/7, my coredev sponsor powers are available to security if they need it :)


[02:36] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: mousepad 0.4.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-mousepad-0-4-1-released-tp51112.html (by André Miranda)
[02:59] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-dict 0.8.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-dict-0-8-1-released-tp51113.html (by André Miranda)
[18:55] <Unit193> bluesabre: Please review the git repo?  It's all good?


[02:42] <jrwren> greg-g: what is this new policy?
[02:50] <greg-g> jrwren: I assume you're referrign to my tweet: it's MS's promise they will stop looking at your emails without a warrant
[05:24] <mrgoodcat> ms is gross
[11:31] <tony-smlr> SMLR E122 LIVE Video: http://youtu.be/Pd2lYHKM9WQ - Audio http://live.smlr.us:8000/streaming (3/29/2014 7:30A EDT)
[13:21] <cmaloney> Good morning
[14:18] <jrwren> greg-g: yes, oh damn. i'm glad I don't use MS for email.
[15:11] <cmaloney> How's the day so far?
[15:11] <cmaloney> jrwren: I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you're leaking MS secrets
[15:11] <cmaloney> then you just have the govt. to worry about. :)
[15:11] <cmaloney> and law enforcement
[15:11] <cmaloney> and some guy named Earl from accounts.
[15:12] <cmaloney> but other than that...
[15:45] <rick_h_> party
[16:18] <greg-g> jrwren: and if you think it's any different at Google.... :P
[16:20] <jrwren> greg-g: i run my own email server for a reason.
[16:20] <jrwren> greg-g: i avoid google and apple and now msft products.
[16:20] <jrwren> e.g. gmail is used ONLY for public email lists.
[16:20] <jrwren> hrm.. i guess i don't avoid apple. i use an iphone
[16:21] <cmaloney> I use Google products a lot
[16:21] <cmaloney> Android Phone, Chrome Browser, Google+
[16:21] <mrgoodcat> i use many google products
[16:22] <cmaloney> But that's mostly because I find them to be the most level-headed of the corps out there
[16:22] <cmaloney> and the one that stands to lose the most capital should they piss off the geeks out there.
[16:22] <mrgoodcat> g+, music, movies, android, gmail, search
[16:22] <mrgoodcat> chrome
[16:22] <cmaloney> books
[16:22] <mrgoodcat> oh yes that one too
[16:22] <cmaloney> They've supplanted my Nook
[16:23] <mrgoodcat> problem is i cant google book on my kindle, so i still use amazon for that too
[16:23] <cmaloney> I never bought into Amazon
[16:23] <cmaloney> I still prefer ePubs as they're portable between devices (for the most part)
[16:23] <mrgoodcat> i use amazon books
[16:23] <mrgoodcat> and i have amazon prime
[16:24] <cmaloney> That and they didn't have PDF support when I was in the eBook market
[16:24] <cmaloney> which is a huge detraction
[16:25] <mrgoodcat> i make some concessions to use google and amazon both. privacy with google, walled garden with amazon
[16:26] <cmaloney> It's quite difficult to lead a RMS-like lifestyle
[16:26] <mrgoodcat> but the convenience afforded makes it worth it
[16:26] <cmaloney> I find it slightly humorous that the Italian Word for "to seek" is "RICERCAR"
[16:27] <jrwren> RMS doesn't have a cell phone.
[16:27] <cmaloney> because that's not what I see when I see that word. :)
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> yea, in order to go full RMS you have to give up a lot of modern conveniences
[16:27] <cmaloney> Well, and most ebooks
[16:28] <jrwren> there are not ebook readers for GNU linux anyway.
[16:28] <mrgoodcat> self hosted email could never be as convenient as google. as much as i like the idea of self hosting
[16:28] <jrwren> mrgoodcat: indeed. its MORE convenient :p
[16:28] <mrgoodcat> i don't mean just the email
[16:29] <mrgoodcat> the android and now integration is what gives it value
[16:29] <mrgoodcat> and there aren't any open source webmail solutions as good as gmail
[16:29] <jrwren> now is the ultimate in scary tracking
[16:29] <mrgoodcat> roundcube is ok
[16:29] <jrwren> yes, amazing how open source completely dropped the ball on webmail solutions eh?
[16:30] <mrgoodcat> thunderbird is ok
[16:30] <jrwren> i like thunderbird a lot.
[16:30] <mrgoodcat> i host my own email at dyladan.me but i tend to use my gmail more
[16:31] <mrgoodcat> my dog is barking at the dogs in game of thrones :)
[16:31] <mrgoodcat> the surround sound is freaking her out
[16:37] <greg-g> jrwren:  :)
[16:38] <greg-g> jrwren: my only google hosted email is forced on me for work email, though I'm going to transition to our lightly used self-hosted imap server at WMF
[16:38] <greg-g> (only a few opsen on it now, sounds like there might be a migration of most opsen soon, and I'll join that boat)
[16:40] <jrwren> for privacy reasons, I'd rather suffer with our hosted exchange at work than move to google apps
[17:14] <cmaloney> I'm not so sure that's a trade-off I could manage. :)
[18:00] <Havenstance> well today's been a better day then yesterday by far :)
[20:24]  * Havenstance kicks acl requirements for samba
[21:51] <Havenstance> and the uss enterprise crashed....
[21:51] <Havenstance> server just died a smoky death
[22:44] <mrgoodcat> Havenstance: no way. The zentyal server?
[22:45] <Havenstance> yeah it was my home version though
[22:45] <Havenstance> I have another box i'll pull out of the closet tomorrow and hook up in its place
[22:45] <Havenstance> the box i had it on here had been slowing down even with winblows
[22:46] <Havenstance> wasn't sure what was going on, then it let out a squeal a small pop and lots & lots of smoke....
[22:54] <Havenstance> I'll bbiaf, gotta go pick up the baby
[23:12] <cmaloney> Should go out to the garage more often
[23:13] <cmaloney> Found a copy of Neal Stepehnson's Anathem and the Apple Bluetooth Keyboard.


[03:19] <mup> PR snapcraft#865 closed: Add `init-plugin`  <Created by jaymell> <Closed by jaymell> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/865>
[03:36] <hamptus> Hi. I'm building a Python desktop application that listens for SDL2 events. On my dev machine (Ubuntu 16.04) the SDL_TextInputEvent is fired (Along with the SDL_KEYDOWN event). But, when I build the app to use as a snap, the SDL_TextInputEvent is not fired (the other events are). Any ideas?
[04:18] <mup> Bug #1577472 changed: The remapped $HOME directory shows as read-only to applications running in a snap <snapd-interface> <Snappy:Expired> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1577472>
[04:38] <manuki> Hello, I have a question that might look stupid but I couln't find the answer. How to I mount automatically a hard drive after startup ?
[04:39] <manuki> snappy is installed on an SDD nvme0n1 p1, p2, p3, p4, p5, and I would like to mount automatically /dev/sda1 to /writable/HDD
[04:40] <manuki> I can't touch /etc/fstab as there is a warning in the file: "# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE BY HAND, YOUR CHANGES WILL BE OVERWRITTEN"
[04:41] <manuki> writable-path(5) doesn't help either as (source: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/wily/man5/writable-paths.5.html) the mount point must be a "A  pre-existing  directory on the read-only root partition"
[10:36] <lightuniverse> hi
[10:37] <lightuniverse> is anyone online?


[05:28] <bigjools> wgrant: longpoll doesn't seem to be working lately
[05:29] <wgrant> I thought it was just me.
[12:27] <haobug> rabbitmq-server problem: http://bpaste.net/show/we7EQafgxt46BZJZEAel/, here is /var/log/rabbitmq/startup_err: http://bpaste.net/show/gFQEpF1qG2Vprp0HYtRR/ and the /var/log/rabbitmq/startup_log is empty
[12:28] <haobug> i am now trying to use the chroot way to run launchpad. because i failed the lxc way and struck by the vm way.
[12:32] <haobug> why does the launchpad use such many dependencies?
[12:55] <haobug> er... http://bpaste.net/show/jdMsJi6SADj54kPTtJ5n/
[13:04] <cjwatson> wgrant: Are you OK with my suggestion in my livefs MP to rename the livefs/livefsbuild columns to distro_series/distro_arch_series, as a way to resolve the naming inconsistency?
[13:04] <cjwatson> If so I might as well do that sooner rather than later
[13:04] <wgrant> cjwatson: That would be my suggestion too.
[13:05] <cjwatson> OK, will do.
[13:07] <haobug> are you talking about my problem? i don't get you idea.
[13:07] <cjwatson> I was not talking about your problem since I don't know the answer to that.
[13:08] <wgrant> haobug: You really should be using LXC or a VM. Running it in a chroot is going to lead to weird port conflicts and all manner of other madness.
[13:08] <haobug> wgrant: my vm is configured use NAT, the bridge way cannot access to internet.
[13:09] <wgrant> Is NAT a problem?
[13:12] <haobug> yes i can use port mapping, but the vm guide told me to install the kvm bla bla.
[14:20] <haobug1> I have tried to config launchpad in guest vm run on top of virtualbox, fialed again.
[14:22] <haobug1> How about release preconfiged vmdisk file. That someone like me can get start easily.
[14:24] <wgrant> Failed how? The documented setup processes work fine; I tested both just last week.
[14:25] <haobug1> I am now returned from office. I can feed back to you tomorrow.
[14:28] <haobug1> I remembered a little: rocket-setup says, can not create local rocketfeul blabla
[14:29] <haobug1> How about to pack you working env up as a tarball or vmdisk or any other preconfiged way.  |wgrant
[14:30] <wgrant> That gets out of date easily.
[14:31] <wgrant> We provide easy scripts and instructions to set up a development environment.
[14:32] <haobug1> I am newbie to linux. But not that new. I have used linux for about 3 years.  I can't recover form the errors.
[14:35] <haobug1> Say, there is a dist-upgrade step in the instruction. This step itself will fail sometime.
[14:41] <haobug1> And all steps are bond to ubuntu. I use gentoo at home, I can't try it out after i returned from work.
[14:46] <haobug1> Think about release a working(even out of date) bundle for newbies like me please.
[14:52] <cjwatson> wgrant: Renames done now.  (I need to update my browser branch, but that's not pushed anywhere yet anyway.)


[17:05] <annoyingquestion> hey guys i have a question
[17:05] <annoyingquestion> wait wrong channel
[17:05] <annoyingquestion> no it is the right channel
[17:06] <annoyingquestion> what audio server does lubuntu use?
[17:06] <annoyingquestion> pulse? alsa? also how can i find that out from a terminal?


[18:51] <malprxctice> How do I change the home directory of current and only user? usermod -d gives me systemd using this user.
[18:51] <fluffypork> Well still no luck. Still have driver descriptor error
[18:55] <akik> malprxctice: usermod doesn't seem to work while the user is logged in. you can change the directory name in /etc/passwd
[18:56] <malprxctice> akik, and that will work after I login or effective immediately
[18:56] <akik> malprxctice: a new login is needed
[18:58] <akik> systemd seems to be prohibiting it, even on 14.04.3
[19:00] <docmur> I follow this guide:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PPTPServer to get pptp setup on a small server, now when I try to connect from my andrroid phone I get: http://pastie.org/10645834  has anyone seen this?  I've tried turning ppp on, on my phone
[19:02] <Jeeves_Moss> do I only need snmp for an end point if I'm not running  a server?
[19:04] <akik> Jeeves_Moss: snmp is used to monitor devices
[19:07] <transhuman> what file does crontab -e represent what file does it open?
[19:08] <trism> eelstrebor: it is already patched: http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2836-1/
[19:10] <akik> transhuman: /var/spool/cron/crontabs/$USER
[19:10] <transhuman> thanks
[19:11] <transhuman> seems like getting anything into chrontab (besides typing it in is a pain in the but going to try and append the info into the bottom of the file
[19:12] <akik> no, it's not a pain. your editor is broken
[19:12] <transhuman> I wish i could reconfigure it to use gedit . any idea how to do that
[19:12] <TheNumb> EDITOR=gedit crontab  -e
[19:13] <TheNumb> ftfy
[19:13] <transhuman> thanks TheNumb
[19:13] <TheNumb> yw transhuman
[19:14] <reveredge> hey
[19:15] <reveredge> can anyone suggest some free web control panel to install in ubuntu server
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> reveredge: maybe the #ubuntu-server guys know something?
[19:15] <TheNumb> reveredge: cockpit
[19:15] <reveredge> TheNumb, thanks for suggestion, have u used it?
[19:16] <TheNumb> reveredge: I have.
[19:16] <TheNumb> It's fancy
[19:16] <TheNumb> :)
[19:16] <TheNumb> reveredge: keep in mind that it's only available from an unofficial repository.
[19:16] <TheNumb> It's not a part of ubuntu archive (yet)
[19:17] <TheNumb> reveredge: other choices would be webmin, virtualmin... ;)
[19:17] <TheNumb> reveredge: there are lots of those
[19:17] <reveredge> TheNumb, but it is server administaation instead of ftp, email, apache server management
[19:17] <TheNumb> hmm
[19:18] <TheNumb> reveredge: should've mentioned that ;p
[19:18] <reveredge> TheNumb, I meant for latter purpose. sorry if I couldn't make myself cler
[19:18] <TheNumb> reveredge: check out ispconfig
[19:19] <TheNumb> http://www.ispconfig.org/ispconfig/online-demo/
[19:19] <nicomachus> !ot | reveredge TheNumb
[19:19] <TheNumb> nicomachus: how's that ot?
[19:19] <nicomachus> software recommendations don't really belong here
[19:19] <TheNumb> hmm
[19:20] <TheNumb> true
[19:21] <reveredge> nicomachus, yeah got it
[19:21] <reveredge> TheNumb, thanks
[19:22] <TheNumb> reveredge: yw
[19:31] <PETSounds> Hi. In Ubuntu, playing 4K video uses high CPU (80%). I tried with MPV --vo=vaapi. Do i miss something?
[19:31] <nicomachus> PETSounds: what kind of graphics setup do you have?
[19:32] <PETSounds> nicomachus: Intel HD520
[19:33] <nicomachus> PETSounds: yea... 4k is going to definitely use a lot of your CPU then. no way around it.
[19:34] <nicomachus> unless you have a dedicated graphics card that can handle 4k video, it's going to put a lot of stress on your CPU.
[19:35] <lotuspsychje> PETSounds: vlc or mplayer doing any better?
[19:35] <PETSounds> nicomachus: but according to http://ark.intel.com/products/88193/Intel-Core-i5-6200U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_80-GHz it supports 4K
[19:36] <nicomachus> well sure it does. but it takes a lot of processing power to do it.
[19:36] <nicomachus> about 80%, apparently.
[19:36] <PETSounds> lotuspsychje: when playing the video with VLC with GL output, it took 100% of the cpu power.
[19:39] <aesthetic256> hello, I am getting a <IP_ADDRESS> IP for my 'DNS' servers, what's the best way to trace where this is coming from (within a large organization)
[19:40] <cristian_c> the server has disconncted me
[19:40] <cristian_c> has anyone answered to me?
[19:40] <PETSounds> what i did here is connecting the laptop to a TV, but really watching 4K video quickly drains the battery. I suppose something like Hardware Acceleration will ease the CPU task. Is it possible that i  don't have HW rendering enabled?
[19:41] <PETSounds> I tried with Windows that comes preinstalled with the laptop, and it only took 30%-35% of CPU power.
[19:43] <capitanocrunch> hello everybody from /me
[19:43] <lotuspsychje> aesthetic256: maybe the ##networking guys can assist you?
[19:44] <nicomachus> cristian_c: what was your issue?
[19:44] <nicolas_> Hi I have a problem with my partitions on an ubuntu 15.10 install. When I was installing, I made a home directory partition of about 200 gb, and a / partition of 10gbs. Now data from my home  partition seems to be filling /, and my system is reporting low disk space
[19:44] <cristian_c> nicomachus: I don't know why my syslog stopped logg9ng
[19:44] <cristian_c> *logging
[19:46] <cristian_c> nicolas_: type: sudo fdisk -l && sudo parted -l &&  df -h
[19:46] <cristian_c> !paste | nicolas_
[19:48] <lotuspsychje> Reventlov: awake?
[19:49] <nicolas_> cristian, how should I show you the results?
[19:49] <cristian_c> !paste | nicolas_
[19:50] <nicomachus> nicolas_: paste at paste.ubuntu.com and link that here
[19:51] <TheWarlord> ye
[19:51] <daftykins> aesthetic256: packet sniff and look at where the DHCP offer came from
[19:52] <nicolas_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131463/
[19:53] <daftykins> PETSounds: i'd be willing to bet your chosen player can't make use of your skylake chip's hardware decode yet
[19:53] <cristian_c>  /dev/sda5        14G   13G     0 100% /
[19:54] <cristian_c> nicolas_: cat /etc/fstab | pastebinit
[19:55] <nicomachus> gotta install pastebinit first
[19:56] <nicolas_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131463/
[19:56] <cristian_c> nicolas_: about my question/issue, any ideas?
[19:56] <doebi> "The locale requested by LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 isn't available here." #onlyinubuntu
[19:56] <cristian_c> nicolas_: it's the previous paste/link
[19:57] <nicolas_> sorry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131495/
[19:58] <w9qbj> nicolas_, sounds like your home (  cd ~ ) is not on /home.  try "cd ; df ./" and see what file system is actually being used.  I had that problem on an old Fedora install.
[19:58] <cristian_c> nicolas_: ls -l / | pastebinit
[19:58] <PETSounds> daftykins: Hi. Do you think there is library/package/firmware or anything that will enable HW rendering properly in Ubuntu Wily? or Skylake support is still immature in Linux?
[19:59] <MonkeyDust> nicolas_  what's the output of   env|grep HOME
[19:59] <daftykins> PETSounds: is the only thing you're trying to achieve, to reduce power consumption of a laptop playing 4K content on a TV?
[19:59] <nicolas_> ls -l : http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131532/
[20:00] <nicolas_> env | grep HOME is HOME=/home/nicolas
[20:00] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: your script, as told today has fixed driver manager (after reboot), but dmssg is empty yet, and syslog is disabled yet
[20:01] <MonkeyDust> cristian_c  awesome, glad it works!
[20:01] <nicolas_> cd ;  df ./ is http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131540/
[20:02] <cristian_c> nicolas_: sorry, I thought ls -l showed also directory usage too, but I was wrong, my bad, sorry!
[20:02] <cristian_c> :(
[20:02] <cristian_c> *shown
[20:03] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: unf9rtunately, it doesn't solve 'the issue' :(
[20:03] <ioria> nicolas_, my i ask you why you set the boot flag on swap  ? (primary   linux-swap(v1)  boot)
[20:04] <ioria> *may
[20:04] <PETSounds> daftykins: Due to the high CPU usage, the fan going full blast in Ubuntu but not in Windows. So i'm looking if there is possible solution to make playing 4K video in Ubuntu smoother.
[20:04] <nicolas_> uhh that seems bad. I probably messed up when I was using the graphical ubuntu installer
[20:04] <ioria> nicolas_, i see
[20:05] <cristian_c> !info du
[20:06] <TheNumb> cristian_c: it should be a port of coreutils
[20:06] <TheNumb> afair
[20:06] <cristian_c> thanks
[20:07] <TheNumb> s/port/part/
[20:07]  * TheNumb a bit tipsy
[20:07] <cristian_c> btw, ioria is right: 1      1049kB  8193MB  8191MB  primary   linux-swap(v1)  boot
[20:08] <ioria> cristian_c, have you tried to purge rsyslog package and reinstall ?  (i have never done that)
[20:08] <nicolas_> It seems like ubuntu thinks my home partition is just part of /, even though there is a 200gb partition labeled /home
[20:08] <nicolas_> Should I merge / and home or something?
[20:08] <MonkeyDust> nicolas_  what's the output of   env|grep HOME
[20:08] <cristian_c> ioria: already tried yesterday
[20:09] <ioria> cristian_c, ok
[20:09] <nicolas_> HOME=/home/nicolas
[20:09] <MonkeyDust> nicolas_  and of lsblk   (use pastebin)
[20:09] <cristian_c> ioria: sincerely, I've tried only 'reinstall' from synaptic, not purge+instalp
[20:09] <daftykins> PETSounds: what player are you using?
[20:10] <ioria> cristian_c, no, the config files persist...
[20:10] <nicolas_> lsblk : http://paste.ubuntu.com/14131642/
[20:10] <nicomachus> mpd, daftykins
[20:10] <nicomachus> mpv*
[20:10] <khxc> inm
[20:10] <khxc> fffff
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:10] <khxc> ff
[20:10] <khxc> f
[20:11] <TheNumb> khxc: no spam plox
[20:11] <PETSounds> daftykins: the MPV and VLC, i set vaapi as its video output.
[20:11] <daftykins> PETSounds: i'm unaware of the status of full hardware decode for skylake of HEVC content.
[20:11] <daftykins> i'd be willing to bet it's not in whatever OS and kernel you're using
[20:11] <MonkeyDust> nicolas_  sda1-4 are primary disks, sda5 and above are logical ... maybe that's something...
[20:11] <cristian_c> ioria: ok, I'll give a try
[20:12] <nicolas_> Oh I did not know.
[20:12] <nicolas_> I didn't put home on 6 on purpose
[20:12] <MonkeyDust> nicolas_  what i'm saying, it's odd that swap is primary and / is logical
[20:13] <nicolas_> Yeah that seems bad. Is backup + reinstall the best move then?
[20:13] <khxc> hhu
[20:13] <khxc> hu
[20:13] <khxc> u
[20:13] <khxc> g
[20:13] <khxc> gwtf
[20:13] <khxc> wtf
[20:13] <nicomachus> !ops | khxc
[20:14] <krabador> nicolas_, the most secure move.
[20:14] <ioria> nicolas_, 200 g for home is a lot compare to 10 g to /  ....
[20:14] <jessica> allo
[20:15] <nicolas_> I don't usually put much on / ..
[20:16] <ioria> nicolas_,  alll the installed apps are on / , not on home
[20:17] <cristian_c> 13 gb used in /, 13 gb used in /home, curious
[20:17] <stevendale__> o.o
[20:18] <nicomachus> cristian_c: 'ls -la /' and 'ls -la /home', then compare the two.
[20:18] <ioria> nicolas_,  home is for your private data and preferences
[20:18] <PETSounds> daftykins: probably the driver quality is still poor compare to the one in Windows. hopefully support for Skylake will be better in the next release
[20:19] <cristian_c> nicomachus: ok, but , as seen before, ls -l does not show 'directory space usage'
[20:19] <lotuspsychje> PETSounds: wich driver and ubuntu version si this
[20:19] <cristian_c> to compare
[20:19] <akik> nicolas_: you said that files you put into /home don't end up in sda6 but your lsblk shows the big partition mounted at /home
[20:19] <nicomachus> don't need space usage, cristian_c, just wondering if the same files are in both somehow.
[20:20] <nicolas_> Yes, that is what I'm asking about
[20:20] <cristian_c> it's not possible (same files in both partition), unless they are copies
[20:20] <PETSounds> lotuspsychje: i have the latest driver installed from https://01.org/linuxgraphics and i am on Kubuntu WIly
[20:21] <lotuspsychje> PETSounds: have you tried this on LTS?
[20:21] <daftykins> PETSounds: look it up!
[20:21] <cristian_c> uhm find either locate commands can help to verify that
[20:21] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: it'll be even worse, skylake is too new :)
[20:22] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: and trusty on higher kernel would that work?
[20:22] <PETSounds> yes on Trusty it is worse
[20:22] <Reventlov> lotuspsychje: yup
[20:22] <akik> nicolas_: do you see the separate /home mount in "mount | grep home" ?
[20:22] <lotuspsychje> Reventlov: have you been able to fix your 920m issue yet?
[20:23] <Reventlov> lotuspsychje: it's the uefi that's the issue
[20:23] <simthr> Hey guys, I have an issue with my touchpad. I feel it is too sensitive. When i press on the touchpad to click on a link, i often miss because the cursor moves off it. Anyone knows how i can fix this? Thank you
[20:23] <PETSounds> i have tried the Xenial kernel with not so much (if any) gain
[20:23] <Reventlov> it's not my computer, so I lost the physical access to it, but this is like 95% uefi
[20:23] <lotuspsychje> Reventlov: how have you fixxed?
[20:23] <Reventlov> well, not fixed. The only solution would be the uefi downgrade.
[20:23] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: no it's not in any release yet i'd bet
[20:23] <lotuspsychje> Reventlov: ok tnx was for feedback that i ask
[20:23] <nicolas_> no, it just says /dev/sda6 on /home
[20:24] <nicolas_> ext4
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> PETSounds: xenial on 4.2 or 4.3?
[20:24] <Reventlov> and since it's not my hardware, I won't downgrade it.
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> Reventlov: ok tnx for info
[20:24] <PETSounds> lotuspsychje: 4.3
[20:25] <akik> nicolas_: ok so it's mounted as it should. that's the separate mount line as it wouldn't show up if /home resided on / partition
[20:25] <xebra> hi, I know that for OS-level virtualization I should probably use lxc, but what about a more general virtualization (to run another OS, etc)? I can't understand the difference between VirtualBox, Xen, KVM, what should I use?
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> PETSounds: ok then lets follow daftykins advice
[20:25] <ioria> nicolas_,  it's a fresh install  ? isn't it ?
[20:26] <nicolas_> its one month old
[20:26] <ioria> nicolas_,  ohhh
[20:26] <akik> nicolas_: you can create empty test files like this (in your home dir) "dd if=/dev/zero of=nullfile bs=1024M count=1"
[20:26] <MonkeyDust> xebra  Virtualbox is a gui, you run it on software, Xen is a hyperviso, for servers, kvm runs on hardware (iirc)
[20:26] <andreasd> Hi. I am trying to follow this tutorial on making a game https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=125436. I have to import the pygame module, but it comes up with an error saying:"ImportError: No Module namd pygame". I did install the pygame throuth apt-get (the name of the package is python-pygame). How do I install the pygame module correctly?
[20:27] <akik> nicolas_: that'll create an empty file with size 1 GiB
[20:27] <nicolas_> I don't think it will fit, but I'll try
[20:27] <klaasvakie> python3 autocomplete in vim on 14.04, possible?
[20:27] <MonkeyDust> hypervisor*
[20:27] <akik> nicolas_: then monitor how df output changes
[20:27] <ctlaltdel> support monitor crashing again
[20:28] <lotuspsychje> ctlaltdel: share the whole story mate
[20:28] <ctlaltdel> lotuspsychje: corrupted graphic lines
[20:28] <MonkeyDust> xebra  there's also qemu and system-V
[20:29] <lotuspsychje> !details | ctlaltdel ubuntu version? grafix card chipset/driver?
[20:29] <nicolas_> it worked without issue
[20:30] <daftykins> PETSounds: this is interesting for the media centre software i use - http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=231955
[20:30] <daftykins> might trash your install though :)
[20:30] <ctlaltdel> lotuspsychje: gfx no clue 15.04 have 60+ tabs
[20:30] <PETSounds> lotuspsychje: i'm pretty optimistic that Skylake support will be better. It is a worth upgrade if you are from Haswell and i bet in 2016 most laptops will be using this CPU.
[20:31] <PETSounds> daftykins: ok i'll check
[20:31] <nicolas_> alright thanks for your help guys, I'm going to try to post on the forums. finding this a bit hard to follow
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> ctlaltdel: sudo lshw -C video
[20:31] <daftykins> PETSounds: hardware talk is off topic here, really.
[20:31] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: 60+ tabs...?
[20:32] <ctlaltdel> nicomachus: firefox I keep open
[20:32] <akik> so nicolas_ left before telling how the df output changed
[20:33] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: how much RAM do you have?
[20:33] <ctlaltdel> nicomachus: no clue
[20:34] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: well, in addition to 'sudo lshw -C video' like lotuspsychje asked for, let's see 'sudo lshw -C memory'
[20:34] <ctlaltdel> HP Stream
[20:35] <ctlaltdel> typing from phone unresponsive from yesterday
[20:36]  * kungfudazza away
[20:36] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: so you can't get to the machine right now?
[20:38] <ctlaltdel> nicomachus: no save can't quit
[20:38] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: ok, well looking at the specs online, this machine is not capable of handling 60+ tabs open in Firefox all the time. save them to your bookmarks or something, because otherwise it's GOING to crash.
[20:39] <ctlaltdel> nicomachus: was stable before 50
[20:40] <OerHeks> 60 tabs, unrealistic request.
[20:40] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: but it's crashing now? because you only have 2gb of RAM and firefox is gobbling up all of it trying to keep track of those web pages.
[20:41] <ctlaltdel> nicomachus: possible fix more ram?
[20:42] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: don't open 60 tabs. use your bookmarks for tux sake
[20:42] <ctlaltdel> no swap at install now swap can?
[20:43] <nicomachus> ctlaltdel: don't open 60 tabs. use your bookmarks. that's all I've got.
[20:48] <cristian_c> ioria: purged and reinstalled, but it didn't solved
[20:49] <ioria> cristian_c, that's weird...  so dmesg and syslog empy ?
[20:49] <ioria> *empty
[20:50] <cristian_c> ioria: dmesg empty
[20:50] <ioria> cristian_c, syslog ?
[20:50] <cristian_c> syslog not updated by almost two days
[20:51] <lotuspsychje> cristian_c: have you tried a tail -f /var/log/syslog in realtime?
[20:51] <cristian_c> no, so, I'll try
[20:52] <ioria> cristian_c,   ls -l /var/log/syslog
[20:53] <cristian_c> lotuspsychje: very, strange, some ueadhead messages (recent messages 20:48 utc)
[20:55] <ioria> cristian_c,   who's the owner and the group ?
[20:57] <cristian_c> syslog and adm, now I paste if you want, ioria
[20:57] <ioria> cristian_c,  no it's ok ... did you reboot after purge  ?
[20:57] <cristian_c> ioria: yeah
[20:58] <cristian_c> rw-r-----
[20:59] <ioria> cristian_c,  maybe paste the syslog file .... really no idea ... you can check /etc/rsyslog.conf
[20:59] <cristian_c> ioria: ok, I'll check that
[21:12] <Turion> I just interrupted a grub update and restarted, now I'm in the boot console and it's saying "ALERT! /dev/disk/by-uuid/.... does not exist. Dropping to a shell!"
[21:12] <Turion> Before that it says "Gave up wating for root device"
[21:14] <Turion> What can I do to find out more about the problem!
[21:14] <Turion> ?
[21:16] <Bashing-om> Turion: Well, 2 options. We can try and boot the install from grub > ; or flat out from a liveDVD(USB) (RE-)install grub . Your call .
[21:27] <Turion> Bashing-om, how would I do the first one?
[21:28] <Turion> I don't see any useful devices in /dev, and /boot is unavailable as well
[21:29] <Aluminite> moo
[21:29] <Aluminite> moomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoomoov
[21:29] <Bashing-om> Turion: I like that thought, find the fault and fix it . at the grub > prompe what retuen ' ls -lh ' . And we start looking for the files that grub and the kernel are hunting for. and tell them where they are .
[21:30] <Aluminite> table fliiiip
[21:30] <Aluminite> ding dong
[21:30] <nicomachus> Aluminite: stop
[21:30] <django_> Im working with a Ubuntu VPS and i wanna check if Firefox is installed, any idea how?
[21:30] <Turion> Bashing-om, "ls -lH"?
[21:30] <nicomachus> django_: apt-get install firefox from a terminal
[21:30] <nicomachus> django_: or, 'firefox --version'
[21:31] <Bashing-om> Turion:  that be a lwer case "L" ..
[21:31] <MonkeyDust> django_  apt-cache policy firefox
[21:31] <Turion> Bashing-om, yes, but there is no -h option
[21:31] <Turion> anyways I can't paste from the boot console
[21:32] <Turion> ls gives "dev sbin scripts bin var run conf proc root etc lib64 lib usr init sys tmp"
[21:33] <Bashing-om> Turion: Beats me .. - lh - has always ben valid for me in that grub environmnet . We are looking to find what partition contains the '/' file system . and where grub's config files are locatd .
[21:34] <django_> tt
[21:34] <django_> ty!
[21:36] <Turion> Bashing-om, /dev is quite empty
[21:36] <Turion> no disks
[21:38] <Bashing-om> Turion: Ouch !  .. reboot, does bios see the hard drive(s) ?
[21:39] <Turion> Bashing-om, well, yes, I guess so, since the bootloader is on there
[21:42] <Turion> Bashing-om, I don't have an /etc/fstab either
[21:42] <Bashing-om> Turion: True .. think'n what else could cause grub not to see a hard drive .
[21:45] <Turion> Bashing-om, yes, it's funny. Also, during the boot the kernel recognise a lot of stuff, and udev runs
[21:45] <Turion> ah, this is interesting... "udevadm settle is not permittet while udev is unconfigured"
[21:47] <EriC^^> Turion: try ls -l
[21:47] <Bashing-om> Turion: Under discussion .. bear with us . Maybe time to run a file system check ?
[21:47] <EriC^^> in grub
[21:48] <TJ-> Bashing-om: Turion is at the busybox shell in the initial ramdisk; its implementation of the coreutils tools are very stripped down
[21:49] <Turion> Bashing-om, maybe, but I think I must have messed something up with grub, because I interrupted a console updating grub
[21:49] <Turion> TJ-, right
[21:49] <linuxr> hello, I had a xorg crash (segmentation fault) and would like to investigate this. I have a .crash dumpfile, can someone help to analyze?
[21:49] <Turion> EriC^^, ls gives "dev sbin scripts bin var run conf proc root etc lib64 lib usr init sys tmp"
[21:50] <EriC^^> Turion: ok, try rebooting and in grub press c to get a command prompt, unless TJ-  wants to try something from the initram shell
[21:51] <Turion> Eric^^, yes
[21:51] <Turion> Ah, much more to see here :)
[21:52] <Turion> ls gives (hd0) (hd0,msdos3) (hd0,msdos2) and other stuff corresponding to the USB stick I think
[21:52] <TJ-> EriC^^: no, go ahead, I'm not really here :D
[21:52] <nicomachus> linuxr: you can look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log as well
[21:52] <EriC^^> Turion: ok, type ls -l
[21:53] <EriC^^> so it gives you the uuid
[21:53] <linuxr> nicomachus, I sure did, any found a xorg stacktrace, but no backtrace
[21:53] <Turion> EriC^^, bear with me, the keyboard layout is US :/
[21:54] <Bashing-om> Turion: EriC^^ :: How bout ' search -f /vmlinuz ; search -f /sbin/init ' see if we can boot up from grub ?
[21:55] <Turion> Bashing-om, EriC^^, that returns hd0,msdos1
[21:57] <EriC^^> Turion: ok, type set root='(hd0,msdos1)'
[21:58] <Turion> yep
[21:58] <EriC^^> Turion: ok, type ls /
[21:59] <Turion> EriC^^, that gives the good ol' disk with everything from bin to var
[21:59] <Turion> I think I've set linux and initrd to the stuff in /boot
[22:00] <Bashing-om> Turion: Let's see what grub knows . try and boot the system. ' linux (hd0,msdos1)/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 ro ; initrd (hd0,msdos1)/initrd.img ; boot ' .
[22:02] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: syslog is now re-enabled, and trick is surprisingly simple
[22:02] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: I've simply deletec the file, and after reboot it has been generated again - but updated -
[22:03] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: unfortunately, dmesg file has not been created too :(
[22:04] <MonkeyDust> cristian_c  what was your initial question?
[22:05] <Turion> Bashing-om, EriC^^, if I boot then I'm at the busybox again
[22:06] <nvt_> did I lose something since I did cp -npr from my harddisk to an external NTFS drive, and back from there with the same command to /home
[22:06] <safe_> Can someone help me with automatically mounting external usb hdd at boot? I googled the man for mount but I still haven't quite figured it out.
[22:06] <EriC^^> Turion: do you have a live usb?
[22:06] <Turion> EriC^^, yes
[22:07] <daftykins> safe_: is it always going to be in?
[22:07] <Turion> So if I start /init, it says /dev/sda1 does not exist etc
[22:07] <EriC^^> Turion: try booting the live usb
[22:07] <akik> Turion: bashing-om wanted you to run the commands at the end of his last message
[22:07] <safe_> daftykins: Yes, and it's a ntfs one.
[22:08] <Turion> akik, Bashing-om, yes, I did, I ended up with the busybox again
[22:08] <EriC^^> safe_: i use gvfs-mount in the startup apps so it mounts just like you press on it in the file manager
[22:08] <daftykins> safe_: ah. use "sudo blkid" to identify the UUID for the partition, then create an entry for it in /etc/fstab
[22:08] <nvt_> maybe I lost some date information from the files, but maybe thats all
[22:08] <boichev> hello what will happen if I have an LVM snapshot that run out of space to hold more changes, but it is mounted ?
[22:08] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: my initial question was about dmesg and syslog files deactivation
[22:09] <safe_> EriC^^: Do I have to use it in system boot or can I use it as startup applications?
[22:09] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: syslog issue seems solved by trick described above
[22:09] <cristian_c> MonkeyDust: but I don't know how to resume dmesg logfile
[22:10] <EriC^^> safe_: i use it as startup applications
[22:10] <Turion> EriC^^, that's a very old ubuntu stick it turns out, hope that's not a problem
[22:10] <EriC^^> safe_: this is the command gvfs-mount -d /dev/sda2
[22:11] <EriC^^> use /dev/sda2 that fits your partition
[22:11] <EriC^^> Turion: should be ok
[22:11] <soee> is it fine to install php7 on 15.10 ?
[22:11] <soee> on home pc ?
[22:13] <nicomachus> soee: I don't see why not
[22:14] <safe_> EriC^^: I'm using gnome-shell and it wont let me add a command as a startup application via gnome-tweak-tool
[22:15] <EriC^^> safe_: try gnome-session-properties
[22:16] <soee> nicomachus: using this ppa https://launchpad.net/~ondrej/+archive/ubuntu/php-7.0?field.series_filter=wily i have dependency probems
[22:16] <soee> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14132836/
[22:16] <safe_> EriC^^: Ah great. Thanks! :)
[22:16] <EriC^^> safe_: no problem
[22:17] <nicomachus> soee: did you install python-software-properties first?
[22:17] <nvt_> is it generally fine to copy files from linux to NTFS and back?
[22:17] <Turion> EriC^^, is the plan to install grub from the stick?
[22:18] <soee> nicomachus: no, i did just now, will reboot and see it if whelps
[22:18] <nicomachus> soee: shouldn't need to reboot
[22:18] <soee> oh than it does not help
[22:18] <nicomachus> just do apt-get update, then add the PPA, then apt-get update again, then install php7
[22:18] <EriC^^> Turion: yeah
[22:19] <nicomachus> soee: completely instructions here: https://askubuntu.com/questions/705880/how-to-install-php-7
[22:19] <EriC^^> and check /etc/fstab
[22:19] <EriC^^> Turion: also maybe update the initramfs
[22:19] <ctlaltdel> alt+f4 is working
[22:19] <ctlaltdel> monitor problem now solved
[22:20] <wafflejock> trying to build the latest apache but when trying to get the libapr1-dev dependency for building I'm getting an error libapr1-dev : Depends: libapr1 (= 1.5.0-1) but 1.5.1-2+deb.sury.org~precise+1 is to be installed, what to do?
[22:20] <wafflejock> need to get the latest Apache for PCI compliance (or at least version 2.4.16, right now have downloaded source for 2.4.18)
[22:21] <wafflejock> appears to me the libapr1-dev dependency is too strict?
[22:21] <Turion> EriC^^, ok, makes sense. I'm just having trouble with my live stick
[22:22] <wafflejock> this is on 14.04.3 Ubuntu Server edition on an AWS VPS if it matters
[22:25] <nicomachus> wafflejock: try in #ubuntu-server
[22:25] <wafflejock> thx nicomachus will do
[22:29] <threeminutemonta> Hi guys. I have this issue again with LTS 14.04 The upgrade needs a total of 80.9 M free space on disk '/boot'. Please free at least an additional 14.7 M of disk space on '/boot'. Empty your trash and remove temporary packages of former installations using 'sudo apt-get clean'.... I tried the suggestions though still don't work.
[22:34] <nicomachus> threeminutemonta: go to a terminal and "sudo apt-get autoremove"
[22:37] <Turion> EriC^^, do we have any other options besides a live stick?
[22:39] <EriC^^> Turion: yeah
[22:39] <EriC^^> btw do you have an iso on the ubuntu install itself?
[22:39] <Bashing-om> Turion: I am still in favor of attempting to boot from grub, We can do this IF grub.cfg is consistent . What returns ' ls (hd0,msdos1)/boot/grub/grub.cfg ' ?
[22:39] <EriC^^> you could try booting that from grub
[22:40] <Turion> EriC^^, I do, it's just that somehow my live sticks from that iso turn out unbootable
[22:40] <Turion> and I only have a 1GB one, so I have to use the 13.10 iso
[22:41] <nicomachus> eek
[22:41] <nicomachus> Turion: AFAIK the full Lubuntu 14.04 iso is still < 1gb
[22:42] <Turion> nicomachus, ah, maybe I'll try that (I always get "Missing operating system" from the BIOS)
[22:42] <ThiefMaster> hi, how can i find out the DHCPv6 DUID on ubuntu server?
[22:44] <Turion> Bashing-om, that file exists
[22:45] <TheWarlord> hey
[22:46] <Turion> Bashing-om, the contents are all the standard one, one boot entry, one recovery mode, two memory tests
[22:48] <Turion> So the problem occurred after there was some kind of grub update, and I interrupted it and restarted
[22:51] <Turion> Eric^^, ah, now I understand what you meant, I unfortunately don't have that
[22:51] <aotea> When installing stuff with Wine, do I need to run the command sudo?
[22:51] <MWM> badblocks shows no output.  can I take this to mean there are no bad blocks?
[22:51] <nicomachus> aotea: no... Wine doesn't quite work that way.
[22:52] <nicomachus> aotea: see this page, and try to familiarize yourself a bit with wine and how it works: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wine
[22:52] <Turion> EriC^^, Bashing-om, Would it help to remove the disc with the nonbooting linux from the laptop and insert it elsewhere as a USB disk
[22:52] <MWM> the reading I have done suggests that there should be some sort of output
[22:54] <aotea> nicomachus, been trying this installer and it just keeps on freezing up. And no idea what might be the issue
[22:54] <Turion> Maybe you can tell me what I'm doing wrong with creating the live disk
[22:55] <Turion> I've downloaded an iso, now I'm formatting the whole stick with fat32, running unetbootin to install the iso and the bootloader
[22:55] <Bashing-om> Turion: We should be able to tell grub where the files are, so grub can tell the kernel where it's files are . We should be able to boot the system from grub and then repair grub. Try ' set prefix=/boot/grub/ ; insmod normal ; insmod linux ; linux (hd0,msdos1)/vmlinuz root=/dev/sda1 ro ; initrd (hd0,msdos1)/initrd.img ; boot ' .
[22:58] <threeminutemonta> nicomachus: 0 to upgrade, 0 to newly install, 0 to remove and 15 not to upgrade.
[22:58] <Turion> Bashing-om, as before it says "Gave up waiting for root device"
[22:58] <Turion> also "udevadm settle is not permittet while udev is unconfigured"
[22:59] <Turion> and last but not least "ALERT! /dev/sda1 does not exist. Dropping to a shell!"
[22:59] <Turion> As if neither the kernel or the initramfs have the drivers or modules or whatevers to make /dev/sda1 visible
[23:00] <EriC^^> Turion: you there i got dc
[23:01] <Turion> EriC^^, sorry I didn't understand
[23:01] <EriC^^> Turion: i got disconnected
[23:01] <Turion> EriC^^, I see :) welcome back
[23:01] <EriC^^> thanks :)
[23:01] <EriC^^> did you boot up and reach grub?
[23:02] <Turion> EriC^^, when I boot I always get back to the BusyBox
[23:02] <Bashing-om> Turion: :( ... not making a lot of sense yet .. as grub can tell us where that root device is - (hd0,msdos1) .. unless I misunderstand somewhere something . ' ls (hd0,msdos1)/ ; ls (hd0,msdos1)/boot/grub/grub.cfg ' gives positive returns, no ?
[23:03] <Turion> Bashing-om, yes grub.cfg exists and looks exactly like what I see from the boot manager
[23:03] <EriC^^> Turion: try booting into an older kernel
[23:03] <EriC^^> go to advanced in grub, then an older kernel
[23:04] <Turion> EriC^^, the only ones I have are /vmlinuz and /boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-24
[23:04] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Turion Excellent idea to boot an older kernel !
[23:05] <EriC^^> Turion: ok, try recovery mode maybe
[23:05] <Turion> EriC^^, yes, I tried already
[23:06] <EriC^^> ok, try going to grub, press c
[23:06] <Turion> yes
[23:06] <EriC^^> then set root='(hd0,msdos1)'
[23:06] <EriC^^> then type ls -l
[23:06] <EriC^^> then type cat /etc/fstab and check if the uuid= matches the uuid from hd0,msdos1
[23:06] <EriC^^> just to cover the basics here
[23:07] <Turion> EriC^^, aha /etc/fstab doesn't contain any uuids
[23:07] <EriC^^> what's it contain
[23:08] <Turion> second line is "LABEL=ROOT / ext4 defaults 0 1"
[23:08] <EriC^^> what's the back story of this box
[23:08] <EriC^^> let us have it :D
[23:08] <genii> Thats not a valid fstab entry
[23:08] <Turion> It's a Linux Mint I set up for my mum
[23:09] <Turion> that is a regular Ubuntu with some minor addons, isn't it?
[23:09] <daftykins> you can't ask about Mint in here.
[23:10] <teward> Turion: Mint is offtopic here
[23:10] <teward> !mint | Turion
[23:10] <Turion> sorry, I wasn't aware of that
[23:10] <daftykins> the clue is in the name
[23:10] <Turion> *blushing right now*
[23:10] <DalekSec> Turion: It's not minor additions, fwiw.  There's quite a few.
[23:11] <Turion> I start wishing I had just installed Ubuntu...
[23:12] <EriC^^> Turion: try ls -l in grub
[23:12] <EriC^^> Turion: write down the uuid next to hd0,msdos1
[23:13] <Turion> EriC^^, ok
[23:14] <Turion> EriC^^, I have all of that done
[23:15] <Bashing-om> Turion: An example of an 'buntu fstab .. mine is non-standard : http://paste.ubuntu.com/14133177/ .
[23:16] <Turion> Bashing-om, thanks, now I just need to find any text editor that will work from here
[23:17] <Bashing-om> Turion: nano ?
[23:17] <Turion> Bashing-om, but I'm in the grub console, no nano here :/
[23:17] <jpmh> how do I set up an auto-responder for mail
[23:18] <ThiefMaster> ugh, this is getting more and more annoying. am i seriously the only one who uses dhcpv6 to assign static ips to hosts?!
[23:18] <EriC^^> Turion: i got dc again
[23:18] <EriC^^> any luck?
[23:19] <daftykins> ThiefMaster: ;)
[23:19] <daftykins> relying on DHCP to provide static always struck me as insane
[23:19] <ThiefMaster> daftykins: why? that way i can configure all ips for my network in a single place
[23:20] <Turion> EriC^^, not really :/ but the labels of fstab match those on the disks, so that shouldn't be the problem I hope
[23:20] <daftykins> best i don't enter into that topic :)
[23:20] <EriC^^> Turion: yeah
[23:20] <ThiefMaster> it's so easy on gentoo.. dhcpcd generates the duid, writes it to a file and then uses that duid for the future. apparently dhclient also has an option to specify a separate file for the duid, but so far i couldn't find an option to specify additional commandline args
[23:20] <daftykins> ThiefMaster: though rather than an exclamation, you really ought to link to a problem description, with config examples and output of what happens
[23:21] <ThiefMaster> well, basically i'm trying to figure out which DUID is used for dhcpv6 requests *or* where to set a static one
[23:21] <Turion> EriC^^, maybe the problem was that I tried to update a Mint system with apt-get in the first place...?
[23:22] <BlackFate> ThiefMaster, have you checked under /etc/default/...? usually apps have their configs there
[23:22] <EriC^^> Turion: no, mint uses apt-get as well
[23:22] <daftykins> but is still off topic in this channel i'm afraid.
[23:22] <EriC^^> Turion: i wonder what it paused on, try cat /var/apt/term.log
[23:22] <EriC^^> it should show the last msgs of the terminal
[23:22] <ThiefMaster> daftykins: why? it's about the network config system of ubuntu
[23:23] <EriC^^> * /var/log/apt/term.log
[23:23] <ThiefMaster> BlackFate: /etc/default/networking doesn't seem to have anything related to it
[23:23] <daftykins> ThiefMaster: that wasn't at you.
[23:23] <ThiefMaster> ah
[23:23] <mustu> Hi, I have been searching for hours and couldn't find any way to extract netflow from a pcap file.. cany anyone help?
[23:24] <daftykins> that's more apt for ##networking
[23:24] <Turion> EriC^^, the last entry start with "grub-pc (2.02~beta2-9ubuntu1.6)"
[23:24] <Turion> it's in german I'm afraid
[23:24] <BlackFate> ThiefMaster, you're using  wide-dhcpv6-server right?
[23:25] <ThiefMaster> BlackFate: whatever is installed by default
[23:25] <ThiefMaster> (i'm not trying to run a dhcp server on the machine)
[23:25] <SchrodingersScat> !info tcpflow | mustu
[23:27] <Turion> EriC^^, then there is this funny message, it says that GRUB had been installed on a disc that's not present in the current system anymore. And more stuff about Grub-core-images and grub-modules
[23:34] <m15k> Hi. Any ideas, why connect is not an unkown setting?
[23:34] <m15k> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14133355/
[23:37] <daftykins> m15k: it's as plain as day
[23:37] <daftykins> "Fatal: Error in configuration file /etc/dovecot/conf.d/auth-sql.conf.ext line 7: Unknown setting: connect"
[23:39] <m15k> daftykins, according the wiki connect should exist: http://wiki2.dovecot.org/AuthDatabase/SQL
[23:39] <daftykins> try commenting out the conntect line
[23:40] <m15k> and how to specify the database?
[23:40] <daftykins> SQLite: connect = /path/to/sqlite.db
[23:42] <daftykins> maybe you've got some errant characters in there that are throwing it o0
[23:43] <m15k> mh just editing with vi...
[23:43] <Turion> I'm going to sleep. Thanks a lot for your help, and sorry that I asked about mint, I wasn't aware of the differences
[23:43] <mavi> good night sweet prince
[23:43] <daftykins> well try a minimal config rewritten by hand
[23:44] <daftykins> m15k: i take it that db file exists and dovecot's run-as user has permissions on it also? probably further along that, though
[23:46] <m15k> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2048 Dec 21 22:41 /etc/postfix/postfix.sqlite <- should be readable
[23:51] <daftykins> m15k: but that's owned by root, so only if dovecot executes as root
[23:51] <daftykins> pretty sure that config file formatting is your issue though
[23:54] <m15k> I think I got it...
[23:55] <daftykins> what was it?
[23:56] <m15k> there's a generic sql conf for setting up connection -.-'
[23:56] <m15k> auth-sql.conf.ext <> dovecot-sql.conf.ext
[23:57] <daftykins> hehe
[23:57] <daftykins> so in your paste you'd included the wrong one at the end?
[23:57] <daftykins> figures why it wasn't line 7 :>
[23:58] <m15k> but thank anyway! wihtout your questions i would not have found it.
[23:59] <daftykins> ^_^ np