[15:35] <qense> hello
[15:35] <newz2000> hi
[18:46] <newz2000> mdke: hi matt, there's a broken link on the new help homepage. The community link needs a trailing slash.
[18:46] <newz2000> I no longer have ssh access to that server or site so I've asked the sysadmins for access or to have one of them fix it. However you should update your copy.


[11:44] <cjwatson> jcfp: I believe that the release team is currently holding off on re-enabling auto-sync until the Perl 5.24 transition is sorted out, to avoid unnecessary build failure chaos.
[11:45] <cjwatson> jcfp: Shouldn't be too much longer though.
[11:45] <jcfp> cjwatson: thanks, didn't know about that


[02:40] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, bottom line, in my opinion, if your going to do ltsp, buy a good server, and then buy new thin clients
[02:40] <Ahmuck-Jr> lower power consumption, more memory, faster bus speed, etc.
[02:41] <Ahmuck-Jr> working on a 2ghz, 3g ram thin client, and it's like i'm sitting directly at the server
[02:47] <Ahmuck-Jr> k, using scribus, firefox, and hugin, while trying to preview in open gl prolly won't work in ltsp client


[08:24] <apuimedo> jamespage: I got the MEM manager charm working yesterday with ha and all. I'll be adding tests and unit tests and I'll pass it along for review
[08:24] <apuimedo> I was also checking the reactive layers
[08:24] <apuimedo> It's quite an interesting concept
[08:24] <apuimedo> and the interfaces possibly even more
[08:25] <apuimedo> but by God will it be a piece of work to move the openstack charms to that
[08:38] <jamespage> apuimedo, a large bit of work to re-factor all 23 existing charms to reactive/layers/interfaces :-)
[08:39] <apuimedo> yeah
[08:39] <jamespage> apuimedo, good morning btw
[08:39] <apuimedo> I saw somebody started working on the keystone interface
[08:39] <apuimedo> jamespage: good morning indeed ;-)
[08:39] <jamespage> apuimedo, yah - let me give you a few pointers as to work we've done
[08:39] <jamespage> apuimedo, https://code.launchpad.net/~openstack-charmers/+git
[08:40] <apuimedo> I added a Midonet API interface yesterday
[08:40] <apuimedo> the only thing I don't quite see well is that in most interfaces I don't see any place for unit tests
[08:40] <apuimedo> so it feels a bit magical
[10:09] <deanman> Hello, I'm trying to bootstrap an AWS compatible cloud environment (eucalyptus) and can't seem to figure what's the configuration parameter to define the endpoint URL on environments.yam. Any hints?
[10:15] <mgz> deanman: there isn't one, you'll need to make some source changes
[10:16] <mgz> deanman: but that's likely less of an issue than getting an image etc working
[10:16] <mgz> deanman: you're probably better off using the manual provider
[10:17] <deanman> mgz: There a couple google hits where people discussed about deploying on eucalyptus and some even said they succeeded but couldn't find any reference for the endpoint url while checking the docs. Ok most probably you are right, i should check with manual provider
[11:39] <tinwood> ls
[14:08] <tvansteenburgh> I was just reading about Binding Service Endpoints to Spaces in the juju-core 2.0beta1 release notes. Does anyone know how to define an endpoint in a charm? I don't remember seeing anything about that.
[14:12] <tvansteenburgh> Never mind, this explains it: http://juju-sapphire.github.io/MAAS%20Spaces%20Demo/
[14:57] <icey> does upgrade_charm kick off config changed? and do defaults (that are left as defaults) update if changed in an upgrade_charm?
[15:16] <cory_fu> icey: I'm fairly certain that the only hook that runs during a `juju upgrade-charm` is the upgrade-charm hook
[15:17] <icey> thanks cory_fu, do you know if it will update the config if defaults change (and were still defaults at upgrade time)?
[15:17] <cory_fu> icey: Oh, you mean if the new version has different defaults?  I don't know, but my guess would be not
[15:17] <icey> ok, thanks cory_fu!
[15:18] <cory_fu> But that's just a WAG, so you should really test it.  I'm curious to what the result is if you do
[15:19] <jamespage> icey, config-changed will always run after upgrade-charm
[15:20] <icey> jamespage: but do the values (that were still defaults) change to new defaults as well?
[15:20] <jamespage> yes
[15:20] <jamespage> juju records if a non-default value was provided
[15:20] <jamespage> if it's not been changes, the default will change
[15:21] <icey> awesome, thanks jamespage!
[15:49] <neiljerram> afternoon all - Can I ask a question about Neutron-related charmhelpers?
[15:50] <neiljerram> I'm working on charm integration for a networking backend called calico. We've actually had charm support for a while, but now I'm just adding in Liberty support
[16:21] <jcastro> magicaltrout: ping! You were the guy looking at doing gitlab right?
[16:22] <pmatulis> anyone use rackspace with juju 2.0 ?
[16:23] <jose> pmatulis: afaik there's no provider, so I use manual
[16:24] <pmatulis> yes, the provider exists, i just can't get it to work
[16:24] <jose> oh... let me double check here
[16:24] <jose> ah, I'm stuck in 1.26
[16:52] <neiljerram> how can I clear the charm cache on the bootstrap machine?
[16:53] <neiljerram> On the bootstrap machine, I see this, and I think it's causing the deploy not to fetch my latest code from launchpad:
[16:53] <neiljerram> lp:~project-calico/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/liberty
[16:53] <neiljerram> root@calico-vm07:/var/log/juju# find / -name "*nova-cloud-controller*"
[16:53] <neiljerram> /var/lib/juju/charm-get-cache/local_3a_trusty_2f_nova-cloud-controller-501.zip
[16:54] <hatch> I see that api-info is no longer a command in juju 2.0 - can anyone fill me in on what the equivelant command to `juju api-info --password password` is?
[16:59] <neiljerram> hatch, I'm afraid I doubt it.  I'm mostly seeing questions on this channel, and no answers.
[17:00] <neiljerram> Still, I wish you more luck than I've had!
[17:00] <hatch> :) Someone will pop in to answer you I'm sure
[17:04] <rick_h_> hatch: get-model-config maybe?
[17:04] <rick_h_> neiljerram: the deploy pulling from LP?
[17:04] <rick_h_> neiljerram: it comes from the store, if you've updated in LP it needs to get reingested which takes a couple of hours atm
[17:05] <neiljerram> rick_h_, I understood that it was possible to use a launchpad branch directly, with this syntax in the bundle file:
[17:05] <neiljerram>     "nova-cloud-controller":
[17:05] <neiljerram>       branch: "lp:~project-calico/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/liberty"
[17:06] <rick_h_> neiljerram: juju deploy does't use that, only the juju-deployer tool. what version of juju are you using?
[17:06] <neiljerram> rick_h_, Also, my last upload to that branch was a couple days ago, so should have had any digestion needed.
[17:07] <neiljerram> root@calico14:~/md4# juju --version
[17:07] <neiljerram> 1.25.3-trusty-i386
[17:07] <rick_h_> neiljerram: k, your branch isn't /trunk so it won't be ingested to the charmstore, but once it is it'll be cs:~project-calico/trusty/nova-cloud-controller
[17:07] <neiljerram> I was deploying with: juju deployer -v -c liberty.yaml
[17:08] <neiljerram> rick_h_, Yes, that's what I thought.  I didn't want to create something in the store until I had some confidence that the code was working - hence the launchpad branch.
[17:09] <rick_h_> neiljerram: k, so to confirm you're using juju-deployer to deploy this?
[17:09] <rick_h_> neiljerram: oic, you're trying to upgrade the charm?
[17:09] <nagyz> ok, gonna ask here, since #maas is usually dead: do you guys think I can add arbitrary subnets to MaaS using the CLI? I think the requirement that the maas controller sits on every subnet that it can deploy nodes to is far fetched
[17:09] <nagyz> unless I have this backwards and it's just an auto-add-subnet function for the ones known already
[17:09] <nagyz> looking to deploy a greenfield OpenStack using proper public and private subnetting...
[17:09] <stokachu> whats the account parameter for in the CreateModel api? https://github.com/juju/juju/blob/master/api/modelmanager/modelmanager.go#L56
[17:09] <neiljerram> rick_h_, yes, exactly
[17:10] <stokachu> juju help create-model only lists --owner and --config as an option
[17:10] <rick_h_> neiljerram: ok, and how are you doing the upgrade?
[17:11] <rick_h_> stokachu: I think that's the work not complete yet
[17:11] <rick_h_> stokachu: you'll be able to specify a credentials.yaml entry
[17:11] <stokachu> rick_h_: ok
[17:11] <stokachu> gotcha
[17:11] <rick_h_> stokachu: e.g. juju create-model work-ec2-creds
[17:11] <rick_h_> and not have to pass them via the -c yaml file param
[17:11] <rick_h_> at least that's what the spec says, not looked into accounts in this code yet :)
[17:11] <stokachu> nice, yea right now i just use the ConfigSkeleton api call for that
[17:12] <stokachu> i wonder if they'll have a AccountSkeleton
[17:12] <stokachu> ok cool np
[17:12] <rick_h_> stokachu: if you're curious axw and wallyworld are the masters of this stuff
[17:12] <neiljerram> I took a fork of the upstream nova-cloud-controller, with: bzr branch  lp:~openstack-charmers/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/next
[17:12] <stokachu> rick_h_: yea im just trying to stay up with the latest api changes for my work with bigdata install
[17:12] <stokachu> so i can be ready when juju goes live
[17:12] <neiljerram> Then I added my changes to that, and pushed to lp:~project-calico/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/liberty
[17:13] <rick_h_> stokachu: gotcha, yea the credentials.yaml file is there, but the api for add-credential and such is in progress as next step for beta2
[17:13] <stokachu> ok cool, thanks for the info
[17:13] <rick_h_> neiljerram: k, but what command did you run expecting the charm to upgrade
[17:14] <neiljerram> rick_h_, nothing yet, I think.
[17:14] <neiljerram> rick_h_, I'm thinking the process is: 1. try out new code. 2. propose merge of my new code into lp:~openstack-charmers/charms/trusty/nova-cloud-controller/next
[17:14] <neiljerram> So at the moment I'm only at step (1).
[17:14] <rick_h_> neiljerram: right, but you were saying that the charm was't grabbing the new code
[17:15] <rick_h_> neiljerram: so you wanted to clear some caches?
[17:15] <neiljerram> Yeah, what I see is that on the machine where that charm should go, the deploy fails.  And when I did into the cause of the failure, it's because it doesn't have the latest code on that machine.
[17:16] <rick_h_> neiljerram: ok, so when you juju-deployer that bundle file it didn't get the latest bzr branch?
[17:16] <neiljerram> rick_h_, Yes, that's it.
[17:23] <bcsaller> is it too late to revise the "juju show-controller" (and similar) output so as not to put data in the keyspace. Its much harder to write validating schema for these things if things like the controller name are keys rather than data
[17:26] <rick_h_> bcsaller: shoot an email to the list with concerns and we can get feedback from wallyworld/axw and look into it.
[17:27] <bcsaller> rick_h_: yeah, sure, thanks
[17:29] <hatch> is there any way I can debug a hung " Waiting for agent initialization to finish" on aws with juju 2.0
[17:29] <hatch> it's been allocating for over 30minutes now
[17:30] <cherylj> hatch: take a look at /var/log/cloud-init-output.log and if that shows that the jujud started, look at /var/log/juju/machine-x.log
[17:31] <hatch> cherylj: the machines haven't been allocated on aws
[17:31] <cherylj> hatch: ah, that's interesting
[17:31] <hatch> is this cloud init output file on the controller?
[17:32] <cherylj> hatch: no, it would be on the instance
[17:32] <hatch> ahh ok, so yeah, no instance :)
[17:32] <hatch> These machines were created via the GUI, lemme see if I can add units via the CLI
[17:32] <cherylj> hatch: I'd look at the machine-0.log and search for the name of the service you deployed...  see if there are any errors around that
[17:32] <hatch> alright
[17:33] <cherylj> hatch: are you using beta1?
[17:33] <hatch> cherylj: tip updated this morning
[17:33] <cherylj> the GUI has some compatibility issues with 2.0-alpha2 and later
[17:33] <hatch> not anymore!
[17:33] <hatch> :)
[17:33] <cherylj> yay!
[17:33] <hatch> well...tip gui
[17:33] <hatch> lol
[17:33] <cherylj> hehe
[17:34] <hatch> actually it's still missing some features, but we're very close
[17:34] <cherylj> niiiice
[17:35] <ChrisHolcombe> using the juju coordinator seems to be a little bit tricky.  On my little ceph monitor cluster of 3 only 2 out of the 3 hosts got the coordinator lock.  The 3rd didn't for some reason
[17:37] <hatch> cherylj: the first instance of 'mariadb' in machine-0 log is: 2016-02-22 17:13:45 ERROR juju.state.unit unit.go:740 unit mariadb/0 cannot get assigned machine: unit "mariadb/0" is not assigned to a machine
[17:37] <pmatulis> rick_h_: re your config, can you confirm 'tenant-name == your account #' and 'username == name you log in to UI with' and 'password == p/w to log in to UI with' ?
[17:37] <ChrisHolcombe> sorry i should say charmhelpers coordinator*
[17:39] <hatch> cherylj: so even via the CLI it doesn't ever appear to allocate any more machines on aws
[17:39] <hatch> possible that tip is broken?
[17:41] <cherylj> hatch: bleh, that would be bad.  Let me see if I can reproduce
[17:42] <hatch> thanks cherylj - it's entirely possible that I have somehow broken this, but I was able to place units on the controller itself
[17:42] <cherylj> hatch: were you just doing "juju deploy mariadb"?  or were there special options / config?
[17:43] <hatch> I deployed the charms via the GUI, and scaled via the gui. When I tried to scale via the CLI I ran 'juju add-unit wordpress'
[17:43] <hatch> ^ cherylj
[18:02] <neiljerram> rick_h_, if you're still around - I don't think we reached a resolution in our conversation a little earlier...
[18:15] <jcastro> any resolution on the lxd/2.0beta issues identified over the weekend? I would cry if I had to move back to 1.25.
[18:16] <lazyPower> cory_fu : i've run into a context issue with relationships and peering :/  i dont recall if we solved this already.   > ValueError: Unable to determine default scope: no current hook or global scope
[18:17] <lazyPower> iirc - i think we had to assign each unit in the conversation to the scope bits, and iterate them?
[18:17] <cory_fu> Peers have to be unit scope.  Unit scope is incompatible with default conversations, so you always have to loop over self.conversations() and you can't ever use self.conversation() or self.set/get_remtoe
[18:17] <lazyPower> its all in here - https://github.com/mbruzek/interface-tls/blob/master/peers.py
[18:17] <lazyPower> found it, ta
[18:35] <rick_h_> negronjl: sorry, had a phone call
[18:36] <rick_h_> oops neiljerra...who left
[18:36] <rick_h_> doh
[19:25] <beisner> dosaboy, jamespage - ceph-* MP tests blocked on:  bug 1548478
[19:26] <mup> Bug #1548478: nova.conf section [libvirt] is missing option rbd_pool <uosci> <ceph (Juju Charms Collection):New> <ceph-radosgw (Juju Charms Collection):New> <nova-compute (Juju Charms Collection):New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1548478>
[19:32] <dosaboy> beisner: hmm not sure how that got through wihout breaking amulet, i removed that conf entry cause it is useless
[19:32] <dosaboy> beisner: i'll see if i can fixup the tests
[19:32] <beisner> dosaboy, fyi, it made it through b/c the nova-compute test doesn't involve ceph.
[19:32] <beisner> in amulet that is
[19:32] <dosaboy> beisner: tru say
[19:33] <beisner> dosaboy, thanks for taking that
[19:33] <dosaboy> beisner: it's just a n-c thing thought right? i mean it is not a but but more an amulet test issue in teh n-c charm
[19:34] <dosaboy> s/but/bug
[19:34] <beisner> dosaboy, right, the n-c test is good.  other charms that cross-validate that the rbd conf thing was in nova.conf will need test updates
[19:35] <dosaboy> beisner: 10-4 got it
[20:15] <dosaboy> beisner: i guess we need to land this first - https://code.launchpad.net/~hopem/charms/trusty/nova-compute/lp1548478/+merge/286833
[20:16] <dosaboy> then the amulet fixes (coming up)
[20:21] <beisner> dosaboy, ack
[20:26] <dosaboy> beisner: amulet fixes all submitted but set to WIP until ^^ lands
[20:26] <beisner> dosaboy, right on.  tyvm.
[20:27] <dosaboy> beisner: thank you for raising the bug with all the necessary info :)
[20:40] <beisner> dosaboy, happy to
[21:18] <ChrisHolcombe> is it possible for one juju unit to call a function on another?
[21:19] <lazyPower> ChrisHolcombe - relations and actions make anything possible :)
[21:19] <ChrisHolcombe> lazyPower, so there's no issue with unit A calling functions on unit B?
[21:19] <ChrisHolcombe> rpc style?
[21:20] <lazyPower> Theres some glue code you'll want to patch the charm to listen to the API, and you'll have to give the charm juju API credentials
[21:20] <lazyPower> but yes, its completely possible, and wouldn't cause an issue if you encapsulate the concerns properly
[21:21] <ChrisHolcombe> lazyPower, +1000
[21:22] <ChrisHolcombe> lazyPower, so how would i go about giving api creds to a unit?
[21:30] <lazyPower> ChrisHolcombe - every time i've done it i've had marco or aisrael's help
[21:31] <ChrisHolcombe> lazyPower, time for a hacky workaround then
[21:31] <lazyPower> may the force be with you
[21:31] <ChrisHolcombe> ;)
[23:47] <stokachu> anyone run into this before: connection attempt for <IP_ADDRESS> failed: /var/lib/juju/nonce.txt does not exist
[23:47] <stokachu> does it just take awhile for it to generate?


[00:05] <baffle> cjwatson: But doesn't this also apply to /etc/init/*.conf as well? Then you would have to define these as Conffiles as well; Or else they will get overwritten on upgrades.. And then you never will recieve new versions of initscripts from the package maintainers?
[00:09] <baffle> cjwatson: As I see it, there is a very good reason for separating configuration and functionality.. The existing (well, old) system of initscripts and /etc/default/ are written to allow for a certain degree of customization/configuration wich is maintainable over time. RH does the same with its /etc/sysconfig/ ..
[00:10] <cjwatson> baffle: but they are conffiles ...
[00:10] <cjwatson> yeah, the question is at what point the configuration becomes simple enough that it isn't worth the added complexity of separate files
[00:11] <cjwatson> upstart jobs are sort of on the edge of that
[00:11] <cjwatson> init scripts are clearly not
[00:12] <cjwatson> anyway, this isn't something I decided - if you want to debate it, better wait until Keybuk is around. :-)
[00:13] <baffle> cjwatson: I'm just trying to understand if it is intentional or not. :-) And if it is, trying to think if it is a good idea..
[01:32] <lifeless> kees: bug 528155
[01:53] <lifeless> I wonder, how btrfs would go on /dev/fd0
[01:54] <jdong> lifeless: is that even enough space to store the metadata?
[01:54] <jdong> isn't the first 1.0MiB of the ondisk format reserved for metadata explicitly?
[01:55] <lifeless> no idea
[02:05] <zul> lifeless: you still have a floppy drive? ;)
[02:10] <lifeless> zul: on this server, yes.
[02:20] <slangasek> TheMuso: oh; who's in this testing group? :)
[02:21] <bryceh> slangasek, is there a way from a script on a user's system to determine if the system is running a development version or an official release?
[02:21] <slangasek> baffle: /etc/default> note that if you have a file left around as an obsolete conffile, that's probably a bug in the owning package for not cleaning it up properly
[02:22] <slangasek> bryceh: lsb_release -d?
[02:22] <bryceh> aha!
[03:33] <twb> Is there a way to get a unified change history of version migration into Lucid (particularly for the last fortnight)?
[03:35] <twb> That is, something like the "news" section of http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mg.html, but for a distro rather than for a package.
[03:41] <nixternal> twb: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/Lucid-changes
[03:41] <nixternal> like that?
[03:41]  * twb looks
[03:41] <nixternal> its actually worth subscribing too...you will get a lot of emails, but you will see all of the work going on, and you will find new packages and stuff that you may not have known about before
[03:42] <twb> FSVO subscribe = turn it on in my gmane feed :-P
[03:43] <RAOF> It's also aggregated as an RSS feed, if you prefer (I do).
[03:43] <twb> RAOF: bah, RSS is for people too young to have a .newsrc
[03:46] <nixternal> I don't have .newsrc, but I have .newsbeuter/config, does that make me to young?
[03:46] <ScottK> nixternal: You definitely aren't too young.
[03:46] <ScottK> I'm unsure of the exact topic, but that's a safe bet.
[03:46] <nixternal> younger than you!
[03:48] <ScottK> Not in years of FOSS experience.
[03:49] <ScottK> BTW, younger than me doesn't help at all if you're shooting for "not old".
[03:49] <twb> You're young if you never got your sleeve caught in a disk drive :-)
[03:50]  * StevenK never managed to do that
[03:50] <ScottK> You're young if you never had to sort a dropped deck of punch cards.
[03:50] <twb> Yeah
[03:53] <nixternal> pfft, disk drives, how about getting stitches from a magnetic disk on a Univac 90/60 or 90/70, can't remember, when I worked at Unisys in high school?
[03:53] <nixternal> ScottK: good, I never had to sort the punch cards I dropped, so I am young according to your last statement...woohoo I win!
[03:54] <ScottK> nixternal: If you're looking for excuses to call yourself young, you aren't.
[03:54] <maco2> ScottK: he drinks like a young'n
[03:55] <nixternal> pfft, I put a young'n to shame!
[03:55] <crimsun> fogeys all ya
[03:55] <ScottK> Get off my lawn....
[03:55] <nixternal> dude, you are going bald, I can at least say I am not
[03:55] <nixternal> hahahaha
[03:55]  * maco2 notes ScottK  could be her dad
[03:55] <crimsun> nixternal: who me?
[03:55] <nixternal> yeah you
[03:55] <nixternal> every event your hair is thinner and thinner
[03:55] <maco2> nixternal: he's been balding since high school, iirc
[03:55] <twb> maco2: you realize that might be taken as a criticism of your mom
[03:55] <nixternal> booyah!
[03:55] <crimsun> nixternal: that statement only works on people who actually care about their baldness. :-)
[03:55] <nixternal> hahah
[03:56] <ScottK> nixternal: Maybe you aren't the only one experiencing denial.
[03:56] <maco2> twb: heh, i meant he was old enough
[03:56] <nixternal> I shave my head now, so I don't care about baldness either
[03:56] <nixternal> ScottK: no denial here, I am losing hair too :)
[03:56] <nixternal> just not as fast as crimsun over there
[03:56] <nixternal> and you can't blame it on the snow!
[03:56] <maco2> nixternal: calling crimsun old doesnt work. he responds "and in the culture of my ancestors, being old is a thing to be proud of, so HA!"
[03:56]  * RAOF has a glorious head of flowing hair. :P
[03:56] <ScottK> nixternal: Hair isn't what you're in denial over.
[03:56] <twb> crimsun: do you wax it, too, so the glare annoys passing motorists?
[03:57] <crimsun> boom tish
[03:57] <nixternal> ScottK: shush :D
[03:57] <maco2> crimsun: look! a local IP!
[03:57] <nixternal> wow, today has been a quiet inbox day, only 81 emails thus far..and I am to lazy to sort them right now
[03:58] <maco2> nixternal: you know anything about .sip files?
[03:59] <nixternal> funny you should ask, check kubuntu-devel :)
[04:00] <maco2> good timing, eh?
[04:00] <twb> nixternal: what does KDE have to do with VOIP?
[04:00] <maco2> twb: .sip is the extension for c++-to-python bindings, afaict
[04:00] <ScottK> twb: Different sip.
[04:00] <nixternal> not that kind of sip :)
[04:00] <twb> Silly qt
[04:00] <nixternal> watch it now
[04:01] <nixternal> you are surrounded by qt/kde devs right about now :)
[04:01] <twb> Eh, I don't even run X, so I'm not worried.
[04:01] <nixternal> well well, Richard Stallman is in the channel!
[04:01] <nixternal> ;p
[04:02]  * maco2 is excited to have written something with pykde that actually runs
[04:03] <twb> nixternal: nah, RMS runs off a Yeelong, not an Eee PC.
[04:03] <ScottK> Running is good.
[04:03] <nixternal> i wrote a BSOD with pykde :)
[04:03] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/files/bsod.png
[04:03] <twb> ScottK: "if it compiles, it's great; if it boots, it's perfect"
[04:04] <ScottK> If it runs, ship it.
[04:04] <maco2> ScottK: the trick was, i had to not use pykde4 for phonon and instead just use normal pyqt4 bindings for that. and so now i'm looking at these sip files trying to figure out how to fix them such that pykde is slightly less broken
[04:05] <maco2> from what crimsun and seele say, i have the impression i'll be needing to try to fix pykde4 a few more times
[05:50] <slangasek> ScottK: boost-defaults is settled at 1.40 for lucid, right?
[05:50] <ScottK> slangasek: As far as I'm concerned, yes.
[05:51] <ScottK> Debian may move to a later version due to freeze getting delayed, but that shouldn't change what we do for Lucid.
[05:55]  * slangasek nods
[06:19] <ccheney> you know those drug fact sheets... read those before taking the meds
[06:20] <ccheney> because sometimes the drugs mess with your brain and you don't read them clearly enough and then you have issues, heh
[06:20]  * ccheney will probably have to take off tomorrow and go back in to the doctor, the drug he was given is causing one of those immediately discontinue use side effects :-\
[06:44] <lucent> ccheney: "Discontinue use if experiencing the urge to license software with the CDL" ?
[06:44] <lucent> that one?
[06:54] <ccheney> lucent: no, bad CNS effects, etc
[06:55] <ccheney> and my wife claims more agitation than usual, heh
[06:55] <ccheney> which is a symptom listed
[06:55] <ccheney> and muscle pain :-\
[06:56] <ccheney> feels like i really overdid it in the gym without barely walking around
[06:56] <ccheney> the part i'm most worried about the CNS issues with my right wrist
[06:57] <twb> Central Nervous System?
[06:57] <ccheney> twb: yea
[06:57] <lucent> ccheney: and seriously, I hope you are feeling better soon.
[06:57] <ccheney> apparently some of the symptoms can end up being permanent if you are unlucky
[06:58] <ccheney> the drug is ciprofloxacin (antibiotic)
[06:59] <ccheney> lucent: i'm sure i will be ok, but the info about the drug online seems a bit scary
[07:02] <lucent> yah
[07:03]  * ccheney heads off to bed, ttyl
[07:03] <lucent> do yourself and your CNS a favor, relax with some music and a book
[07:03] <ccheney> yea typing in my present condition is probably not too good an idea, heh
[07:19] <jdong> ccheney:you should be okay with the cipro.... the only common "yikes help!!" side effect you should watch out for is swelling/tender tendons / painful joints....
[07:19] <jdong> (not a doctor, but have been on cipro before and had the adverse reaction)
[07:20] <twb> See, I'm "old school".
[07:21] <twb> My view is broadly that if you get sick, you ought to bloody well be sick, not try to weasel out of it with drugs
[07:23] <nixternal> unless they are illegal drugs
[07:24] <twb> nixternal: that's just economics
[07:24] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[07:25] <nixternal> black market baby
[07:25] <twb> Having said that, I do take a lot of capsaicin and caffeine.
[07:25] <twb> But more for recreation than medical reasons.
[07:26] <nixternal> I don't take anything, as there is enough smog here in chicago to give you a great buzz
[07:28] <twb> Heh, like London in `52.
[07:39] <jdong> twb: yeah, I've got a degenerative connective tissue disorder, and I've seen the brink of death before and happily submit to my fancy schmancy genetically engineered medicine :)
[07:40] <twb> I've been hospitalized with asthma a few times, but I doubt that really counts.
[07:41] <jdong> I don't feel one really gains anything from the "hmm let's wait and see" approach...
[07:41] <jdong> I don't know the statistics off the top of my head for how many people per year die from sepsis due to bacterial infection going into the bloodstream... but I have a feeling it's not a pretty number
[07:41] <jdong> but anyway, totally offtopic for this channel!
[07:42] <twb> I bet it's smaller than the number killed in auto accidents
[07:42] <twb> At least in the first world
[07:42] <jdong> granted, yes.
[07:42] <jdong> but preventable deaths are preventable deaths IMO
[07:42] <jdong> every one counts.
[07:42] <twb> You could prevent auto accidents by removing all the autos :-P
[07:43] <jdong> now that's not as practical as a bit of levaquin love, is it? :)
[07:43] <jdong> (or at least a trip to the doc for a blood culture)
[07:43] <twb> NFI, I'm not a materials scientist.
[08:17] <dholbach> good morning
[08:18] <mvo> hey dholbach
[08:18] <dholbach> hola mvo!
[08:21] <ogra> hmm, my system started to massively misbehave since the last upgrade
[08:21] <toabctl> hi
[08:23] <ogra> while i have an 8.9second boot (http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/osiris-lucid-20100226-4.png) i seem to end up at the wrong console (X cursor sits on black screen) switching consoles gets me to a running desktop with a keyring question waiting for input ...
[08:23] <ogra> if i put in the PW i get dropped back to gdm
[08:24] <twb> ogra: known lucid issue
[08:25] <twb> (Re wrong tty by default)
[08:25] <ogra> ah, k
[08:25] <twb> I don't have the ticket number handy, sorry
[08:25] <ogra> for the keyring i thought there was an upload though
[08:25] <twb> I don't use GUIs, so I can't help you with the other part.  You probably want to ask #ubuntu about it.
[08:26] <ogra> lol
[08:26] <ogra> surely not :)
[08:27] <ogra> but thanks for the hint :)
[08:36] <ogra> seb128, morning
[08:36] <seb128> hi ogra
[08:37] <ogra> seb128, did you expect all keyring issues to be fixed with your last upload ? (on i386 that is)
[08:37] <seb128> ogra: no
[08:37] <ogra> seems i have a keyring prompt that kills my X session after entering the PW (just upgraded)
[08:37] <ogra> ok
[08:37] <seb128> I don't expect any issue to be fixed out of the "don't ask to create a keyring"
[08:38] <seb128> you get x crashing on enter
[08:38] <ogra> ah, good, then i'll file a new bug after next reboot
[08:38] <seb128> seems rather this plymouth issue
[08:38] <ogra> yep
[08:38] <ogra> yeah, i also end up on the worng tty it seems
[08:38] <seb128> uninstall plymouth
[08:39] <ogra> will do (cant reboot atm to verify though)
[08:39] <ogra> at least i got an 8.9 sec boot now ;)
[08:39] <seb128> nice
[08:49] <seb128> cjwatson, hi
[08:49] <seb128> cjwatson, I opened bug #528290 about the segfault
[08:50] <seb128> it doesn't have too much detail for the moment but I will try to get some later
[08:50] <seb128> seems I've been lucky yesterday to get my install done
[08:50] <seb128> it keeps crashing again since
[09:19] <Ixan> cjwatson: followup to #526405 it's still broken :/
[09:31] <Ixan> what's the proper conduct for reopening a bug? i opened one, there was a patch and it was marked as fixed, but a new bug appeared on the same topic. should i change from fix released to new? or just get out of Dodge
[09:35] <azeem_> is it a new bug, or the same bug?
[09:42] <Ixan> same bug, more or less
[09:49] <cjwatson> Ixan: if you're kriberg on Launchpad, then from your comment on that bug, it would be best to open a new one
[09:49]  * cjwatson prefers not to have a bug morph between crash causes
[13:11] <ev> could I get another pair of eyes on http://paste.ubuntu.com/384362/ - does that look reasonable?
[13:13] <cjwatson> the motivation seems OK to me and your control fields do what you say on the tin^Wchangelog
[13:14] <seb128> cjwatson, ev: does running ubiquity from an install work correctly?
[13:14] <seb128> I'm think it will be easier to install debug packages, valgrind etc on an install
[13:16] <cjwatson> definitely not guaranteed
[13:16] <ev> seb128: running ubiquity from an install wont work as you don't have /rofs (the aufs read-only mount of the squashfs)
[13:16] <cjwatson> the partitioner in particular is likely to have trouble, and it will feel entitled to modify bits of configuration in /etc
[13:16] <ev> cjwatson: thanks
[13:16] <cjwatson> oh and that
[13:16] <cjwatson> you could try a live image on a usb stick with persistence?
[13:17] <seb128> "with persistence"?
[13:19] <cjwatson> usb-creator has a slider for how much space on the stick you want to allocate as persistent storage, in other words space for work done while in the live session that won't be discarded on reboot
[13:21] <seb128> oh ok, thanks
[13:21] <seb128> the key I'm using is a 8G one
[13:21] <seb128> so I can easily do that ;-)
[13:27] <statik> doko, thank you very much for the oprofile upload
[13:27] <seb128> cjwatson, I don't know if that's luck but I didn't get the crash this time after moving the slideshow dir away
[13:28] <cjwatson> I was wondering if it might be related to the fact that the slideshow's currently broken
[13:28] <cjwatson> ev is fixing that by way of moving to po4a
[13:28] <seb128> still weird that it crashes
[13:28] <seb128> but I don't know how the slideshow thing is working
[13:28] <seb128> and it could mess up the ubiquity state by being broken
[13:29] <cjwatson> it uses python-webkit
[13:30] <cjwatson> so I can believe that that could crash
[13:30] <doko> statik: still in binary NEW
[13:30] <seb128> would the slideshow crashing take ubiquity down with it?
[13:31] <cjwatson> it's in the same process, so yes
[13:33] <seb128> cjwatson, ok, it seems to be something with the slideshow, I get the crash every time and didn't get it 3 times in a row without slideshow
[13:33] <seb128> I put the slideshow back and it's crashing again
[13:33] <cjwatson> ok, excellent, so the fact that the slideshow is currently known to be broken is probably implicated
[13:34] <cjwatson> don't know if you noticed, but there's a slideshow parse error in the debug log
[13:34] <seb128> yes I did
[13:34] <seb128> that's what made me want to try without it
[13:34] <cjwatson> which is because slides/index.html got flattened into one line by po2html, complete with JavaScript single-line comments
[13:34] <cjwatson> which of course didn't work very well :)
[13:34] <seb128> is there somewhere where I can download a correct index?
[13:35] <seb128> just to see if replacing this one makes it not crash
[13:35] <cjwatson> you can edit it and search for //, and do the obvious thing to unfold the line breaks
[13:35] <seb128> ok, makes sense ;-)
[13:35]  * seb128 tries
[13:35] <ev> seb128: http://people.canonical.com/~evand/tmp/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu_15_all.deb
[13:36] <seb128> ev: even easier ;-)
[13:36] <seb128> thanks
[13:36] <ev> sure thing
[13:36] <ev> I'll be uploading something similar to that momentarily
[13:43] <ion> Hmm. Why is the https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt-mark-sync package not in lucid?
[13:44] <Ng> ion<EMAIL_ADDRESS>may be relevant to your interests
[13:45] <ion> I guess i should just get it to Debian.
[13:45] <ion> Thanks for the link
[13:54] <mvo> ion: what is the problem with apt/aptitude? they should share the same db, at least they did in the past
[14:05] <ion> mvo: They have switched to the same db since, but what i personally really want is to sync the debfoster db to the apt/aptitude one, since they don’t offer debfoster’s functionality. I’ve been thinking of perhaps implementing something like debfoster in aptitude, but so far it’s just an idea.
[14:05] <mvo> ok
[14:33] <seb128> ev, cjwatson: the new slideshow version doesn't fix the crash
[14:34] <ev> bah
[14:35] <ev> seb128: what happens when you run the following: /usr/lib/webkit-1.0-2/libexec/GtkLauncher "file:///usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/index.html"
[14:36] <ev> seb128: or if you've selected a locale, /usr/lib/webkit-1.0-2/libexec/GtkLauncher "file:///usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/index.html#locale=fr"
[14:36] <ev> errr
[14:36] <ev>  /usr/lib/webkit-1.0-2/libexec/GtkLauncher "file:///usr/share/ubiquity-slideshow/slides/index.html#?locale=fr"
[14:36] <seb128> ev: segfaulty
[14:37] <seb128> in the same function than ubiquity
[14:37] <seb128> same stacktrace
[14:37] <seb128> ev: so I guess iz webkit bog
[14:37] <seb128> not ubiquity
[14:37] <seb128> cjwatson, ^
[14:37] <ev> hooray (sort of)
[14:37] <seb128> that will make it much easier to debug, let me see if it crashes on my work machine too
[14:38] <seb128> in which case I can talk to the webkit guys
[14:40] <cjwatson> seb128: cool, thanks
[14:41] <seb128> $ /usr/lib/webkit-1.0-2/libexec/GtkLauncher
[14:41] <seb128> Erreur de segmentation (core dumped)
[14:41] <seb128> go webkit go
[14:47] <seb128> cjwatson, ev: ok, webkit guys have been useful
[14:47] <seb128> seems to be bug #413994
[14:47] <seb128> or similar issue
[14:48] <seb128> I verify on ubiquity now
[14:48] <seb128> but that fixed /usr/lib/webkit-1.0-2/libexec/GtkLauncher crashing
[14:48] <seb128> that = moving zemberek.so away
[14:52] <cjwatson> ah
[14:56] <seb128> cjwatson, ev: ok, seems to be that indeed, ubiquity stopped crashing too
[14:56] <seb128> cjwatson, ev: I will fix enchant
[14:56] <ev> hooray!
[14:56] <ev> seb128: thanks for tracking that down
[14:56] <seb128> where "fix" there seems to be "stop using zemberek which is known to be broken"
[14:57] <seb128> ev: np
[14:57] <cjwatson> I recall seeing bugs about zemberek brokenness in the past
[14:58] <seb128> the one I just pointed is there for a while
[14:58] <ttx> seb128: I think I hit https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/526796 -- do you need input on it or is it a well-known issue ?
[14:58] <seb128> ttx, do you have an indicator applet on your gnome-panel?
[14:58] <ttx> seb128: yes
[14:58] <seb128> ie the one with the messaging icon
[14:59] <seb128> ttx, are you sure?
[14:59]  * ogra wonders if that happens to people that dont use update-manager
[14:59] <ttx> seb128: I can screenshot it if you want to check :)
[14:59] <seb128> ttx, you have the messaging menu which lists empathy, gwibber, etc
[14:59] <seb128> ttx, yes please ;-)
[14:59] <ttx> seb128: lists empathy, evolution
[14:59] <seb128> ttx, is indicator-sound installed?
[15:00] <ttx> seb128: no
[15:00] <seb128> ttx, ok then that's your issue
[15:01] <seb128> ogra: it's a recommend so it should not
[15:01] <seb128> ogra: if you don't turn recommends off...
[15:01] <ttx> seb128: it's a lucid alpha2 install, fwiw
[15:01] <seb128> ttx, did you upgrade using update-manager?
[15:01] <ttx> seb128: no, installed lucid alpha2 then apt-get dist-upgrade every 2-3 days
[15:02] <seb128> I blame apt then, check with mvo
[15:02] <ttx> seb128: ok :)
[15:02] <seb128> indicator-applet recommends indicator-sound
[15:02] <mvo> ttx: how/when did you upgrade?
[15:02] <seb128> and we install recommends by default
[15:02] <seb128> mvo, will upgrading a package pulls in new recommends?
[15:03] <ttx> mvo: installed from alpha2 ISO, then apt-get dist-upgrade every 2-3 days
[15:03] <seb128> mvo, like indicator-applet got a recommends on indicator-sound
[15:05] <ttx> fwiw "sudo apt-get install --reinstall indicator-applet" doesn't get me indicator-sound, I have to install it manually.
[15:06]  * ttx restarts session to check fix
[15:07] <ttx> seb128: ok, it's back, thanks. Will comment on the bug
[15:11] <mvo> ttx: if you can attach your terminal log and your apt history, that would be nice (both in /var/log/apt/)
[15:14] <ttx> mvo: done
[15:16] <mvo> ttx: what is the bugnumber?
[15:16] <ttx> mvo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/+bug/526796
[15:19] <mvo> thanks
[15:28] <emgent> salut sabdfl
[15:28] <sabdfl> hi emgent
[15:30] <ttx> seb128: in the same vein, my rhythmbox status icon also disappeared recently (when I run RB, I have no icon up there anymore) -- is it expected ?
[15:36] <ogra> ttx, do you have rhythmbox-plugins installed ?
[15:36] <ttx> ogra: apparently not. Purging/Installing rhythmbox pulls it in, though.
[15:37] <ogra> :)
[15:37] <ogra> you server guys ...
[15:37] <ogra> use update-manager :) it saves the world !
[15:37] <ttx> ogra: I'll consider it :)
[15:38] <mvo> ttx: there is also sudo apt-get install --fix-policy
[15:38] <mvo> ttx: that should give you missind recommends
[15:38] <ttx> mvo: ah thanks, that's the one I couldn't remember :)
[15:38] <mvo> its not exactly obvious ...
[15:38] <mvo> sounds like something for computer-janitor
[15:39]  * ttx realizes he is missing 23 packages
[15:43] <seb128> mvo, are new recommends meant to be auto pulled in?
[15:43] <mvo> yes
[15:43] <seb128> ok, I was not sure
[15:43] <seb128> not sure it doesn't work for rhythmbox and indicator-applet then
[15:44] <mvo> seb128: the trouble is if they are not installable it will forget about them, i.e. if you have pkg A with new recommends B and at the point you install A B is not installable it will forget about B
[15:44] <seb128> that's not the first user to tell me indicator-sound or rhythmbox-plugins don't get installed
[15:44] <seb128> mvo, ah I see
[15:44] <mvo> that might explain it
[15:44] <seb128> might be an issue rather for unstable users then
[15:44] <mvo> otherwise I'm happy to debug
[15:44] <mvo> yeah
[15:45] <seb128> mvo, we just need to make sure those get installed in test upgrades
[15:45] <seb128> mvo, do you have a checklist somewhere?
[15:45] <seb128> or a diff between upgraded system and new install?
[15:46] <mvo> seb128: no, but I think I could generate one, if the pkglist of a new instlal is available somewhere, that would make it massively easier
[15:46] <seb128> mvo, will you take care of reassigning that bug where it should be?
[15:49] <mvo> seb128: I can do that, but I'm not sure at this point where it belongs to
[15:49] <seb128> mvo, apt or NOTABUG?
[15:50] <mvo> yeah
[15:50] <mvo> seb128: hm, lp does not let me login, can you re-assign to apt please (for now)
[15:51] <seb128> mvo, ok
[15:51] <ccheney> jdong: yep having those
[15:52] <ccheney> jdong: even 12hr+ after last dose my muscles are still hurting :(
[15:58] <alexmoldovan> bryceh: Hello, I just finished testing a laptop with a Core i5 M520 that uses the integrated CPU graphics and it works perfectly. Even the acceleration. Thanks!
[16:32] <jibel> mvo, hi, I pushed a workaround for bug 282995 . commited to my branch r1713
[16:32] <mvo> jibel: thanks, I check it out
[16:33] <jibel> mvo, I talked with the xapian's guys this morning about it and searching for a term with an hyphen using a prefix is not possible with xapian :(
[16:35] <jibel> mvo, so searching for a part of package name e.g pkg:xserver-xo is a bit problematic.
[16:36] <mvo> jibel: oh :( sad to hear - are there plans from them to fix that?
[16:38] <jibel> mvo, see comment#16 in the report. We need to talk to ojwb to get his opinion.
[16:39] <hyperair> who should i subscribe to a bug to poke a retry build button for a package lying in main?
[16:39] <hyperair> u-m-s or u-a?
[16:40] <hyperair> or could someone here with super cow powers please poke it?
[16:40] <hyperair> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/<IP_ADDRESS>-2/+build/1465680
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> hyperair: poked
[16:45] <hyperair> sistpoty|work: thanks =)
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> hyperair: only ia64?
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> yqw
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> -q
[16:45] <hyperair> sistpoty|work: yes.
[16:47] <magcius> Is UNR dead?
[16:49] <ogra> magcius, yes, it was renamed
[16:49] <magcius> ogra, to what?
[16:49] <ogra> its the UN Edition now
[16:49] <magcius> Alright...
[16:49] <ogra> (UNE)
[16:49] <cjwatson> I was going to say "no, it was renamed" :-)
[16:49] <ogra> heh
[16:49] <magcius> It looks like there are two forks of the Launcher
[16:50] <magcius> One uses EFL. What does the other use?
[16:50] <ogra> there are two launchers, right
[16:50] <ogra> clutter and efl
[16:50] <magcius> Alright, Clutter.
[16:51] <magcius> Is there a reason that Canonical developed their own Netbook distribution instead of contributing to development of Moblin and such>
[16:52] <magcius> Also, why not help build a non-OpenGL backend for Clutter?
[16:56] <superm1> mvo, would you mind if i picked your brain a little bit?  I'm seeing this happen: http://paste.ubuntu.com/384146/ on a 'dpkg -G -i blah.deb' call.  Here's the postinst: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~dell-team/dell-recovery/trunk/annotate/172/debian/postinst .  Interestingly enough, the grub.cfg is fully populated even though the stdout from the dpkg call doesn't agree so.   AFAIK, nothing is sending  SIGTERM to the dpkg call.  So could you se
[16:56] <superm1> e any other scenario causing that to happen?
[17:01] <slangasek> seb128: I gather appindicator has something to do with why my volume control no longer stays put on my panel across logins?
[17:02] <jdong> ccheney: oh ouch, man, hope that clears up soon for you :-/. Yeah, cipro/levaquin are good antibiotics except when THAT happens. I feel your pain -- get better soon.
[17:02] <seb128> slangasek, most likely yes
[17:03] <slangasek> seb128: so... is there an ETA on having whatever the "right" mixer is landing, so I don't have to keep readding the old one by hand?
[17:03] <seb128> slangasek, ok maybe I didn't parse you right
[17:03] <seb128> slangasek, the right mixer should be there
[17:03] <seb128> slangasek, is indicator-sound installed?
[17:03] <slangasek> seb128: yes
[17:04] <seb128> slangasek, you have the indicator applet on your config?
[17:04] <seb128> slangasek, the one which does the message indicator thing
[17:04] <seb128> slangasek, all indicator go in that container
[17:04] <seb128> indicator*s*
[17:05] <slangasek> seb128: I have the message indicator and session indicator, yes
[17:05] <mvo> superm1: hm, is this reproducable?
[17:05] <mvo> superm1: or just happend once?
[17:06] <superm1> mvo, it is happening on 4.2% of factory shipped systems (that dpkg command runs as a late command)
[17:06]  * Keybuk wants a department-of-homeland-security-alert-level-indicator
[17:06] <slangasek> seb128: running /usr/lib/indicator-sound/indicator-sound-service by hand, it aborts immediately; thanks, that gives me enough info to file a bug
[17:06] <superm1> mvo, so when it's happening it's a bit hard to investigate or speculate
[17:06] <seb128> slangasek, np
[17:08] <mvo> superm1: i see, hm
[17:09] <mvo> superm1: I guess you can not run update-grub or the postinst with sh -x ?
[17:10] <superm1> mvo, if i was able to reproduce it at my desk, that was the first inkling I had, but it's only being reproduced at the factories.
[17:11] <superm1> i've tried interrupting the late_command to just rerun update-grub and the reload for dbus 10k times hoping to hit it, but alas still nothing
[17:12] <superm1> so i'm starting to wonder what would happen if one of the children in the postinst got a SIGTERM, does it flow up to dpkg too?  or just cause dpkg to exit with a non-zero return code?
[17:12] <Keybuk> superm1: signals aren't STDs
[17:12] <superm1> haha
[17:12] <cjwatson> there's no guarantee that the "Terminated" you're seeing there is from dpkg
[17:12] <Keybuk> they're only sent to one process
[17:13] <cjwatson> could be from any of them
[17:13] <Keybuk> (the fact that there are extremely complicated rules about which process that is when a terminal is involved tends to confuse people)
[17:13] <superm1> so without set -x in each, probably won't be able to figure much out then
[17:13] <cjwatson> and yes, dpkg would probably get a non-zero return code, provided everything in the stack is handling exit statuses correctly
[17:19] <superm1> cjwatson, hm, but if something in the postinst received the TERM, dpkg would have done something more like this though: dpkg: error processing dell-recovery (--install):
[17:19] <superm1>  subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 143
[17:22] <Keybuk> superm1: depends on set -e
[17:22] <Keybuk> if the postinst isn't set -e, the shell will just execute the next line in turn
[17:22] <Keybuk> etc.
[17:22] <superm1> well that postinst is launched as #!/bin/sh -e
[17:22] <seb128> hyperair, please don't open bugs for builds that need a retry
[17:23] <hyperair> seb128: er sorry.
[17:23] <seb128> hyperair, we have better ways to track things which fail to build
[17:23] <cjwatson> superm1: could be a script it calls that isn't correctly set -e all the way down, though
[17:23] <hyperair> seb128: how?
[17:23] <cjwatson> or even || true
[17:23] <geser> hyperair: you know http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/ftbfs/ ?
[17:24] <Keybuk> right, there's lots of shell things that "consume" exit statuses, like ||, &&, if, while, etc.
[17:24] <hyperair> geser: well yes. but nobody knows if that one just needs a "retry build" or needs more poking without reading the logs.
[17:24] <Keybuk> cjwatson: did I tell you about the time I got a patch from someone changing a line to "if something || true; then" to avoid "the shell exiting" ?
[17:25] <superm1> okay well i'll get a more concise env together to capture that information
[17:25] <seb128> hyperair, in any case f-spot is queued for build
[17:25] <cjwatson> Keybuk: heh
[17:25] <hyperair> seb128: thanks.
[17:25] <seb128> hyperair, so your build can be closed
[17:25] <seb128> hyperair, was not me
[17:25] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I take it you replied with 'man bash'? :-)
[17:25] <hyperair> eh?
[17:25] <seb128> hyperair, well I just looked to give it a kick and it's waiting for build
[17:26] <seb128> hyperair, somebody did it before apparently
[17:26] <hyperair> i see.
[17:26] <hyperair> whoops
[17:26] <hyperair> sorry for the noise
[17:26] <seb128> np
 or could someone here with super cow powers please poke it?
[17:26] <seb128>  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/f-spot/<IP_ADDRESS>-2/+build/1465680
 hyperair: poked
 sistpoty|work: thanks =)
 hyperair: only ia64?
[17:27]  * sistpoty|work likes that button :)
[17:27]  * hyperair facepalms. i feel old and forgetful
[17:27] <seb128> hyperair, you knew it had been retried apparently since you asked there for it...
[17:27] <hyperair> seb128: what?
[17:28] <hyperair> seb128: i filed the bug before poking
[17:28] <seb128> hyperair, well then you could have closed the bug once somebody kick the retry ;-)
[17:28] <geser> hyperair: for give-backs in universe you can do them yourself (through the web ui or the ubuntu-build script) and for main asking here is usually enough (if you don't it at unusual times e.g. middle of the (european) night or on weekends)
[17:28] <seb128> kicked
[17:28] <hyperair> seb128: sorry, like i mentioned, i've a bad memory and i'm poking several packages at once.
[17:29] <hyperair> geser: okay cool.
[17:29] <seb128> hyperair, ok, no problem, just avoid opening bugs for those
[17:29] <seb128> mention it on IRC
[17:29] <seb128> usually that's enough to have those picked
[17:29] <hyperair> seb128: sure
[17:40] <seb128> slangasek, you can use /usr/lib/libindicator/indicator-loader /usr/lib/indicators/3/libsoundmenu.so
[17:40] <seb128> slangasek, libindicator-tools has the test software
[17:41] <slangasek> seb128: well if I do that, it runs... :)
[17:41] <slangasek> (though in a goofy window, not in my panel)
[17:42] <sebner> seb128: are there pop-ups (notifications) planned for the AppIndicator stuff?
[17:42] <seb128> sebner, what popup?
[17:42] <seb128> sebner, we have notify-osd?
[17:43] <sebner> seb128: I mean if you move your mouse over the old icons you get small pop-ups, transmission speed, musikplayer -> track + minutes etc
[17:43] <seb128> slangasek, you are sure you have the indicator applet on your gnome-panel?
[17:43] <seb128> slangasek, ie you run rhythmbox you see it as an indicator?
[17:43] <seb128> or the bluetooth icon
[17:44] <seb128> (indicators are menus, you can see the background colored when the menu is open to compared with old icons)
[17:44] <slangasek> seb128: er, I don't know, I have indicators on my panel - indicator-session, indicator-me, etc?
[17:44] <seb128> slangasek, well those are indicator session
[17:44] <seb128> there are 2 applets
[17:44] <seb128> (yes confusing)
[17:44] <slangasek> ok, apparently I didn't have indicator-applet here
[17:44] <seb128> ok, what I though ;-)
[17:44] <seb128> that used to be the message indicator only
[17:44] <seb128> ie the envelop icon
[17:45] <seb128> but other things dock there now
[17:45] <slangasek> so what was supposed to auto-add it, and why is that different than what's preventing gnome-volume-control-applet from running?
[17:45] <seb128> what? it's supposed to be there since jaunty
[17:45] <seb128> we will have to make sure to add it back though
[17:45] <seb128> I guess many user didn't like the messaging thing and remove the applet
[17:45] <seb128> removed
[17:46] <slangasek> I don't think I've ever seen this before
[17:46] <slangasek> maybe it looked very different
[17:46] <seb128> the messaging indicator?
[17:46] <seb128> it did
[17:46] <seb128> it only had text, no icon
[17:46] <seb128> and was like
[17:46] <seb128> Empathy
[17:46] <seb128>   Description
[17:46] <seb128> Gwibber
[17:46] <seb128>   Description
[17:46] <seb128> and that's where you im messages go if you use an im client
[17:47] <seb128> slangasek, anyway to reply to your other question we stop autostarting gnome-volume-control-applet
[17:47] <seb128> since we have this indicator-sound
[17:47] <sebner> seb128: I have the indicator-applet, e.g Transmission is already updated and the icons (horrible) looks the same as the others but there don't appear a pop-up if I mouse-over it which is really annoying
[17:47] <seb128> and indicators are auto-loaded
[17:47] <seb128> sebner, tooltip?
[17:48] <seb128> sebner, no, there is no tooltip planned there
[17:48] <sebner> seb128: ah, that is the word that I was looking for :D
[17:48] <slangasek> seb128: "stop autostarting" - well how come if I start it by /hand/, and save my session, it doesn't come back on next login?
[17:48] <seb128> the usually way is to click and have the info in the menu
[17:48] <seb128> slangasek, that I don't know
[17:48] <seb128> slangasek, did you try to add it in the session capplet?
[17:48] <seb128> rather than saving your session?
[17:49] <sebner> seb128: for transmission I have to do 2 clicks, the app maximizes and I have to minimize it again, that's horrible and pretty annoying compared to the tooltip from just moving the mouse over the icon
[17:49] <seb128> sebner, you have to do that for doing what?
[17:50] <slangasek> seb128: no, the session capplet offends me :)
[17:50] <sebner> seb128: I was just an example. For doing what? For getting some information quickly evidently ...
[17:50] <sebner> *it
[17:50] <seb128> sebner, info should be in the menu
[17:50] <seb128> sebner, you have the exact same mouse movement to do
[17:50] <seb128> just to press your finger on the mouse button
[17:51] <seb128> shouldn't be too much extra work
[17:51] <sebner> seb128: and I have to close the app (e.g transmission) again, that is much extra work
[17:51] <hyperair> seb128: i made a lot of noise about tooltips in #ayatana the other day.
[17:51] <sebner> just to get some info
[17:51]  * sebner strongly agrees with hyperair
[17:51] <hyperair> seb128: the verdict is that, sadly, lucid won't haev tooltips.
[17:51] <seb128> sebner, why would opening the menu open transmission?
[17:52] <hyperair> i meant to ping sebner by the way
[17:52] <seb128> hyperair, what I was saying, why would it, menu bar don't have tooltips
[17:52] <sebner> seb128: I have to click on "Show Transmission" to see some information ;)
[17:52] <seb128> sebner, well that's a bug
[17:52] <hyperair> seb128: let's consider it this way. menu bar buttons have text.
[17:52] <seb128> sebner, infos which were in the tooltip should be in the menu directly
[17:52] <sebner> seb128: Clicking on it is buggy too imho
[17:52] <sebner> seb128: oh, Ic
[17:52] <hyperair> seb128: given that fact, the new application indicators are more like toolbar buttons than menu buttons, don't you agree?
[17:52] <hyperair> seb128: toolbar buttons have icons.
[17:53] <hyperair> and why? because icons aren't always intuitive to everyone.
[17:53] <hyperair> there are daft people around like me who don't understand what all the icons mean.
[17:53]  * sebner doesn't like that all Apps now have the same icon (color)
[17:53] <hyperair> especially if you switch your icon theme and suddenly get a new bunch of icons for everything.
[17:53] <seb128> well they had the same issue with notification icons
[17:53] <hyperair> seb128: what issue?
[17:54] <hyperair> seb128: and what is "they"?
[17:54] <seb128> non obvious icons
[17:54] <seb128> those others who don't know what those icons are
[17:54] <seb128> they didn't change between notification area and appindicator
[17:54] <seb128> they are the same icons
[17:54] <hyperair> seb128: right. but notification area has tooltips which tell me what the icon is.
[17:54] <seb128> hum, need to run for some minutes
[17:55] <seb128> hyperair, often they don't no, they give you random infos
[17:55] <hyperair> seb128: now i have to open a menu, and depending on what the contents are, i may or may not understand what that app is.
[17:55] <seb128> which you get now by opening the menu too
[17:55] <hyperair> seb128: that is besides the point.
[17:55] <seb128> you have the same info in the menu than the tooltip
[17:55] <seb128> or you should
[17:55] <seb128> anyway I'm not the designer
[17:55] <magcius> Where can I find the source for the UNR EFL UI?
[17:55] <hyperair> seb128: the point is that tooltips have been there as "alt text" for icons.
[17:55] <seb128> but I've no real issue with the change
[17:55] <hyperair> that they have been misused is another thing entirey.
[17:56] <hyperair> entirely
[17:56] <LaserJock> magcius: netbook-launcher-efl I think
[17:56] <magcius> LaserJock, no project on LP
[17:57] <geser> while talking about missing tooltips, is there a way to know what rhythmbox is currently playing without having to open the main window?
[17:57] <LaserJock> magcius: that's the package, you can do apt-get source netbook-launcher-efl
[17:57] <magcius> ah, sorry, I don't actually use Ubuntu
[17:58] <cjwatson> magcius: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/n/netbook-launcher-efl/
[17:58] <LaserJock> magcius: according to the package, https://launchpad.net/launch-lite-proj is the Launchpad project
[17:58] <cjwatson> you want the newest .dsc, .diff.gz, and .orig.tar.gz
[17:58] <magcius> Aha, thanks
[17:59] <cjwatson> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc # if you have dpkg-source
[18:04] <seb128> geser, not yet but that should go in the menu too probably
[18:17] <magcius> hmm
[18:17] <magcius> it looks like the EFL launcher uses a cairo backend for EFL, is that right?
[18:18] <magcius> mterry, I think you'd be the guy to ask
[18:19] <mterry> magcius, probably.  I inherited the current codebase, so I'm not super familiar with EFL, but I try
[18:19] <mterry> magcius, it does
[18:19] <mterry> magcius, (in answer to your question)
[18:19] <magcius> mterry, alright, so it doesn't use the EFL software renderer?
[18:19] <mterry> magcius, I don't think so
[18:19] <magcius> mterry, do you know anything about Clutter?
[18:20] <mterry> magcius, a bit
[18:20] <magcius> alright
[18:21] <magcius> Is there a reason it was developed using EFL instead of using cairo directly? Do you use any other parts of the EFL library?
[18:27] <magcius> mterry, ^ ?
[18:27] <mterry> magcius, oh, sorry.  Uhm, it was developed that way before I got involved.  We do use other EFL bits and widgets and theming support
[18:28] <magcius> mterry, who developed it before you? Was it someone at Canonical?
[18:30] <mterry> magcius, yeah, Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri<EMAIL_ADDRESS>did most of it
[18:49] <seb128> slangasek, bug #528589 is NOTABUG
[18:50] <seb128> slangasek, applet are not started, they are part of your config
[18:50] <seb128> the indicator applet one is part of the default profile since jaunty
[18:50] <seb128> and added on upgrade for upgraders
[18:51] <seb128> slangasek, it's most likely that you got it at some point and changed your config and forgot about it
[19:04] <hyperair> is lucid's libtool misbehaving?
[19:04] <hyperair> i'm looking into cone's ftbfs, and it seems that no matter what i do, libtool complains about a version mismatch
[19:32] <Laney> cjwatson: is grub2 supposed to work on md partitions with A3?
[19:34] <Laney> ubiquity bombed because it couldn't install grub
[19:35] <slangasek> seb128: hmm, ok; I guess I removed it because I could never figure out what it was ;)
[19:40] <cjwatson> Laney: supposed to ...
[19:40] <Laney> cjwatson: I haz logs
[19:42] <Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/384601/
[19:44] <cjwatson> Laney: I can haz bug?
[19:44] <cjwatson> Laney: (did you select /dev/md0p1 explicitly as the grub installation target, or did it select that for you?)
[19:44] <Laney> I didn't change what it wanted
[19:44] <Laney> I think it said /dev/md0, even
[19:44] <cjwatson> Feb 26 19:14:52 ubuntu grub-installer: info: Installing grub on '/dev/md0p1'
[19:45] <cjwatson> it seems a bit confused about something else too.  do you have a /boot/grub/device.map in the target system?
[19:45] <cjwatson> (ideally, you shouldn't)
[19:45] <Laney> no
[19:45] <cjwatson> ok, goo
[19:45] <cjwatson> d
[19:45] <Laney> well, there is another Ubuntu partition, maybe that confused it?
[19:45] <cjwatson> shouldn't have
[19:46] <Laney> who wants the bug? ubiquity or grub2? (I can't install grub manually either)
[19:47] <seb128> hyperair, run autoreconf
[19:47] <cjwatson> Laney: grub-installer for the moment, I think
[19:47] <hyperair> seb128: that's what i've been doing.
[19:47] <cjwatson> I'm not quite sure, I'll have to look into it in detail, probably not on a Friday evening
[19:48] <Laney> sure
[19:48] <cjwatson> Laney: could you make sure to attach /var/log/partman too?  if you still have the live session running, 'ubuntu-bug ubiquity' will do the job
[19:48] <Laney> I just need to file it while I still have the info
[19:48] <seb128> hyperair, auto*re*conf?
[19:48] <Laney> will do, then I'll triage it to grub-installer
[19:48] <Laney> thanks for advice
[19:48] <seb128> hyperair, what package is that?
[19:48] <hyperair> seb128: yes, auto*re*conf.
[19:48] <cjwatson> wait, ubiquity?  that doesn't actually support raid
[19:48] <hyperair> seb128: cone.
[19:48] <cjwatson> not well, anyway
[19:49] <Laney> I manually selected the partition
[19:49] <cjwatson> after you've filed it, try with d-i to see if it acts any better, maybe?
[19:49] <hyperair> seb128: it seems to be a bug common with combined autohell trees.
[19:49] <cjwatson> ok, well I guess it might work
[19:49] <hyperair> seb128: as in nexted autoconf
[19:49] <Laney> well grub cannot install the bootloader in any case
[19:49] <hyperair> seb128: could be out of date or something.
[19:49] <cjwatson> Laney: let me know in the bug how I'd go about setting up a matching system, if you can
[19:49] <Laney> but I will try d-i (I'll have to find out how to make it use an existing md array though)
[19:50] <cjwatson> Laney: yeah, maybe don't bother trying d-i, you're probably right and it shouldn't matter
[19:50] <seb128> hyperair, the build log suggests it runs aclocal and autoconf not autoreconf
[19:50] <hyperair> seb128: this is a local build.
[19:50] <seb128> hyperair, usually we want to make sure to run none or things in right order
[19:51] <hyperair> seb128: i've been messing around with the source tree.
[19:51] <seb128> k, dunno then
[19:51] <hyperair> seb128: wait, you mean the build already runs aclocal and autoconf?
[19:51] <seb128> hyperair, yes
[19:51] <seb128> hyperair, see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/37421099/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.cone_0.79-2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz build log
[19:51] <hyperair> oh for the love of..
[19:51] <hyperair> screw cdbs.
[19:51] <seb128> hyperair, it's not the build, it's autotools
[19:52] <hyperair> and autohell >_>
[19:52] <hyperair> make that badly implemented autohell by stupid upstreams.
[19:52] <seb128> hyperair, usually that's happening when touching some configure or makefile
[19:52] <seb128> you want to use maintainer mode to avoid that
[19:53] <seb128> or don't touch autotools files in patches...
[19:53]  * hyperair takes a look at the patch
[19:53] <hyperair> ffuuuu
[19:54] <cjwatson> or manually run around touching files after applying patches (ugh)
[19:54] <cjwatson> or ACLOCAL=true AUTOCONF=true etc. :-)
[19:57] <Laney> cjwatson: that's weird, I just installed grub-pc again and it worked ¬_¬
[19:57] <Laney> (in a chroot on the live cd)
[19:58] <Laney> this was after installing grub. The device.map it created must have fixed things.
[19:58]  * Laney writes all this down
[20:03] <Laney> ok, filed 528670, hope that's alright
[20:04] <cjwatson> good start, thanks.  the weird bit may be that you're using partitioned RAID.
[20:04] <Laney> yeah I recently blew away all of the funny business
[20:05] <cjwatson> normally (and the way the installer sets things up) you have RAID physical volumes on partitions, assemble a disk-like object (e.g. /dev/md0) on those, and write a filesystem to /dev/md0 directly
[20:05] <cjwatson> but you have /dev/md0p1
[20:05] <cjwatson> so it may not so much be that md support in grub isn't there, but that partitionable md support in grub isn't there
[20:05] <cjwatson> as I say, will have to look into it more, that's just from a first look
[20:06] <Laney> sure, I'll leave it with you
[20:06]  * Laney restarts
[20:09] <hyperair> seb128: it works now, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
[20:10] <seb128> hyperair, you're welcome, what did you change?
[20:10] <hyperair> seb128: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS = SENDMAIL=/usr/sbin/sendmail
[20:10] <hyperair> seb128: and drop the patch.
[20:10] <seb128> ok ;-)
[20:10] <hyperair> seb128: now then, i've got a DD to fry.
[20:11] <hyperair> honestly, patching configure and configure.in to change the patch of something in AC_PATH_PROG.
[20:11] <hyperair> i'd have expected more from a DD.
[20:12] <hyperair> E: cone: possible-gpl-code-linked-with-openssl
[20:12] <hyperair> lolwut?
[20:18] <xorl> Hey, there a quick way to package up a custom init scripts without a build script so I can maintain them debian style?
[20:19] <xorl> so I have a custom init script, custom config files, just want to package em up in a deb, I am familiar with the debian package, just not 100% on the rules, not sure how to package it up with just config files when there is no make environment.
[20:19] <cjwatson> foo.conf in your package, 'foo.conf etc/init' in debian/foo.install, /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny in debian/rules
[20:19] <xorl> ah
[20:19] <cjwatson> debian/foo.install is processed by dh_install; see its manual page for more information
[20:19] <hyperair> wasn't there some plan to make a dh_installinit or something?
[20:19] <xorl> perfect
[20:20] <xorl> cjwatson: thanks!
[20:20]  * xorl goes to rtfm
[20:20] <cjwatson> there is a dh_installinit, actually yes you probably ought to use it
[20:20] <cjwatson> debian/foo.upstart, in that case
[20:20] <cjwatson> (instead of foo.conf and debian/foo.install)
[20:20] <hyperair> or debian/foo.init
[20:20] <cjwatson> right.  see dh_installinit(1)
[20:21] <cjwatson> anyway, point is that make is entirely optional :)
[20:21] <xorl> sweet, nice, thanks for the tips guys!
[20:21] <xorl> Yeah, was confused for a second, thanks for the clarification, I was about to wonder off to a world of too much work to do something stupid simple
[20:23] <cjwatson> sorry for misdirecting you to dh_install first off, not sure what I was thinking there; but on the other hand you can use that technique for other things
[20:24]  * slangasek does the dh7 dance
[20:25] <slangasek> (it's a very short dance, but very effective)
[20:31] <cjwatson> slangasek: dh(1) use now at 19.47% in unstable, up from 12.69% when my records began in September
[20:31] <slangasek> muhaha
[20:32] <cjwatson> (corresponding cdbs numbers: 24.97% in September, 25.06% today)
[20:33] <sebner> cjwatson: that's the bad part of your news :P
[20:40] <xorl> hmm, I am making this more complicated for myself, just need to install a new mysql init, it's conf file and be on my way, using mysql-server as a guide (from the debian/* files) I think I have dug myself a hole.
[20:42] <ccheney> jdong: they switched me to something different, not sure what yet, should have it in about an hour or so
[20:43] <ccheney> jdong: the Dr seemed to think cipro can only cause tendon tears, not just joint pain, etc (which is also on the fact sheet)
[20:43]  * ccheney thinks maybe he needs to find a better dr
[20:44] <ccheney> he only switched me because i wanted him to, heh
[20:46] <cjwatson> slangasek: http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/dhstats.png; apologies for my inability to drive gnuplot prettily
[20:48] <slangasek> wow, debhelper is that high a percentage?
[20:48] <cjwatson> >97%
[20:49] <cjwatson> interestingly, the raw number not using debhelper has increased by three since September; I'd expected it to drop
[20:49] <ccheney> cjwatson: so manoj packages 3% of debian? :)
[20:50] <cjwatson> the percentage has gone down though, 2.42% -> 2.3%
[20:50] <slangasek> no, I have some packages I adopted from elmo that I haven't switched to dh7 yet :)
[20:50] <cjwatson> ccheney: don't forget dexter ...
[20:50] <cjwatson> I converted a Wichert package to dh7 recently
[20:51] <cjwatson> oh, but I haven't uploaded that yet :)
[20:51] <ccheney> cjwatson: ah
[20:51] <cjwatson> I haven't quite dared to convert base-passwd yet
[20:51] <ccheney> i need to convert my ubuntu specific stuff to cdbs/dh7
[20:51] <lifeless> so, by using debhelper, do you mean calling dh_anything?
[20:52] <cjwatson> lifeless: build-depending on debhelper
[20:53] <xorl> cjwatson: that rules.tiny won't work stock will it?
[20:53] <ScottK> For lots of packages it does.
[20:54] <xorl> hmm, i have build-essential, devscripts installed, dh still not found
[20:54] <cjwatson> you might be running hardy
[20:54] <xorl> n/m
[20:54] <ScottK> xorl: dephelper is none of those things.
[20:54] <ScottK> dep/deb
[20:55] <xorl> yeah, realized that, i spoke too soon :)
[20:58] <xorl> error: must specify package since control info has many ()
[20:58] <xorl> lovely
[21:00] <cjwatson> xorl: you need to fix debian/control; you have no binary package stanzas in there
[21:00] <cjwatson> (perhaps you need to *write* debian/control)
[21:02] <xorl> I have debian/control with Package: mysql-st in there
[21:02] <cjwatson> you've got something wrong - dpkg failed to parse it correctly
[21:07] <jbebel> cjwatson, What's the difference between base-installer/kernel/image and base-installer/kernel/override-image?  The example preseed uses "image" and the server CD preseed uses "override-image".
[21:10] <cjwatson> jbebel: override is a bit higher priority I think.  I forget the exact details, it was a while ago ...
[21:10] <cjwatson> for most purposes I think you're ok to use image
[21:14] <cjwatson> could one of the other archive admins process parted through NEW for me?
[21:14] <cjwatson> I'd like to get the stuff that depends on it building
[21:18] <slangasek> cjwatson: looking
[21:23] <c_korn> is Ubuntu also invloved in the Debian GNOME bug hunt ? http://np237.livejournal.com/27754.html
[21:24] <slangasek> cjwatson: accepted
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> c_korn - we probably need a similar effort for gnome packages in ubuntu ;)
[21:39] <diavel> hello
[21:41]  * ccheney needs to learn how deb v3 works
[21:41] <ccheney> anyone have a link that explains how the new stuff works?
[21:44] <c_korn> chrisccoulson: wouldn't this double the effort ? the bugs will be opened in the upstream tracker. so ubuntu should also gain profit of it.
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> c_korn, possibly. but we have significantly more bug reports on our tracker ;)
[21:47] <c_korn> chrisccoulson: ok :) I will participate in the event. I think they will be happy to see some Ubuntu people helping Debian :)
[21:47] <chrisccoulson> c_korn, yeah, i'm sure they will. thanks :)
[21:57] <ccheney> cjwatson: do we have support for xz yet? looks like deb v3 supports it so we may to add it soon if we don't already
[21:57] <ccheney> cjwatson: sounds like xz is a better version of lzma
[21:59] <MTecknology> I just made a fix for a bug in the 'debian/' directory of xdm. Should I upload to revu, attach the debdiff, and assign it to the ubuntu-main-sponsors team?
[22:11] <dyek> Hi! Where can I find pv-grub? Is there a package that contains this (Xen?) utility?
[22:18] <ebroder> Are any core-devs around that could take a look at bug #497606? We just deployed CUPS 1.4 servers here, but have a lot of Hardy/Jaunty clients, so this bug is hitting us fairly hard
[22:30] <cjwatson> slangasek: thanks
[22:31] <cjwatson> ccheney: it went into dpkg trunk recently, but I'm not sure about that version for lucid yet
[22:42] <ccheney> cjwatson: looks like the dpkg version in lucid should be fine (1.15.5) but not sure if launchpad would it handle it
[22:43] <cjwatson> ccheney: launchpad uses current dpkg
[22:44] <cjwatson> whether it handles the file extensions correctly I don't know, but that bit would be trivial
[22:46] <cjwatson> I was actually thinking of http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=commit;h=9bb208a8338253a1c9e1d0642cf1ef039a335951 and http://git.debian.org/?p=dpkg/dpkg.git;a=commit;h=54be54799fd73850a6e869e3a8e270b35a9f7384, although I see now that the former is for binary packages not source packages
[22:46] <cjwatson> and the latter is just dependency reduction
[22:52] <ccheney> cjwatson: ah ok, yea it would be good to get xz support into our dpkg for lucid also
[22:52] <ccheney> cjwatson: er binary support
[22:57] <barry> doko: optimistic ping


[01:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-gke-4.15 [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1059.62]
[01:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (bionic-proposed) [4.15.0-1039.43]
[01:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted linux-signed-oracle [amd64] (xenial-proposed) [4.15.0-1039.43~16.04.1]
[04:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[04:34] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[04:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[04:50] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[04:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[04:54] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[05:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[05:07] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[05:13] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: python-resolvelib [amd64] (groovy-proposed/none) [0.3.0-1] (no packageset)
[05:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[05:18] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[06:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: poco [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.10.0-5] (no packageset)
[08:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libwildmagic [riscv64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [5.13-1.1ubuntu1] (no packageset)
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted grpc [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [1.26.0-3]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted grpc [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [1.26.0-3]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted grpc [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [1.26.0-3]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted papi [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [6.0.0~dfsg-2]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted papi [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [6.0.0~dfsg-2]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted grpc [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [1.26.0-3]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted papi [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [6.0.0~dfsg-2]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted grpc [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [1.26.0-3]
[09:44] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted papi [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [6.0.0~dfsg-2]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [armhf] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [riscv64] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-resolvelib [amd64] (groovy-proposed) [0.3.0-1]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [arm64] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [s390x] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[09:45] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted poco [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed) [1.10.0-5]
[11:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: shoelaces [amd64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-2] (no packageset)
[11:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: shoelaces [s390x] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-2] (no packageset)
[11:15] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: shoelaces [ppc64el] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-2] (no packageset)
[11:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: shoelaces [arm64] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-2] (no packageset)
[11:17] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: shoelaces [armhf] (groovy-proposed/universe) [1.0.2-2] (no packageset)


[04:27] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: in controls, there are some who wish to be able to install in /usr/local/*. I think in order to do that, the files in /lib/systemd need to be moved to /usr/lib/systemd/
[04:27] <OvenWerks> maybe that doesn't matter
[04:28]  * OvenWerks is working on an install script
[04:28] <Eickmeyer[m]> OvenWerks: Yeah, it really shouldn't matter since it's a symlink on most systems anyhow. I will tell you that making an install script will require me to repackage for both Ubuntu and Fedora.
[04:29] <OvenWerks> Eickmeyer[m]: this is for control 2.1
[04:29] <Eickmeyer[m]> Yeah. Still would need new packaging, especially for Ubuntu. For Fedora, now that I think about it, it probably won't matter as much.
[04:30] <OvenWerks> do you have to use the install script if everything is in a reasonable tree structure?
[04:30] <Eickmeyer[m]> Not if it's already in the tree structure, no.
[04:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, I see what you're doing. :)
[04:31] <OvenWerks> I wasn't going to change that
[04:31] <Eickmeyer[m]> Right.
[04:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> Ok, gotta call it a night since my desk is in the same room as our beds (yes, we're all in the same room until we have a place of our own).
[04:32] <OvenWerks>  been there... GN
[04:32] <Eickmeyer[m]> o/
[18:48] <Eickmeyer[m]> In case anybody was wondering, we have RC images.
[19:30] <veremitz> \o/


[08:00] <didrocks> good morning
[08:00] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[08:00] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[08:03] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[08:07] <duflu> seb128, bug 1691678
[08:40] <Wimpress> Morning desktopers o/
[08:40] <Wimpress> I have a few merge proposals for review.
[08:40] <Wimpress> https://code.launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/add-focal-fossa-artwork/+merge/380151
[08:40] <Wimpress> https://code.launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/ubuntu-wallpapers/add-focal-fossa-artwork/+merge/380173
[08:41] <Wimpress> https://code.launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/+git/ubuntu-settings/+ref/master
[08:41] <Wimpress> https://code.launchpad.net/~flexiondotorg/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-settings/+git/ubuntu-settings/+merge/377985
[08:42] <didrocks> hey Wimpress
[08:42] <Wimpress> Morning didrocks
[08:42] <jibel> hi all
[08:46] <seb128> Wimpress, hey, I'm looking at the ubiquity/wallpaper ones but I'm not convinced about the settings/dialog thing
[08:58] <seb128> hey jibel , how are you?
[08:59] <jibel> seb128, I'm good thanks, and you?
[09:00] <seb128> I'm good, went to bed early yesterday which was a good decision, I feel good and refreshed today :)
[09:03] <marcustomlinson> morning desktoppers
[10:05] <tseliot> Laney, did you file a FFE for your MP?
[10:06] <Laney> tseliot: not yet, I will do
[10:07] <tseliot> Laney, ok
[10:32] <Laney> tseliot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grub2/+bug/1866035
[10:33] <Laney> sil2100: ^- dunno if you've got a second, but if so maybe you could cast your eye over that please
[10:33] <Laney> it's what juliank and I are working on atm
[10:43] <tseliot> Laney, ok, it looks good to me. How do we proceed from there?
[10:44] <Laney> tseliot: you can merge it if you like it, hopefully we'll get the +1 to upload soon
[10:44] <Laney> thanks for looking :-)
[10:45] <tseliot> Laney, ok, merged. yw
[10:52] <amurray> hey folks, just a quick question - with the latest gnome-shell/yaru-theme combo in focal, labels displayed by gnome-shell-extension-appindicator are not vertically centered - they sit at the top of the top bar - https://imgur.com/a/jKVP5w9 - is this known and if not against which should I file a bug?
[10:53] <Laney> amurray: against the package for the extension sounds fine
[10:55] <amurray> Laney: but I assume this is a g-s / yaru-theme bug since it was only evident after I got the most recent g-s update (and I already had the yaru-theme one a day or so earlier) - I am guessing some css needs updating but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ...
[10:55] <Laney> The extension is undergoing some updating for the new Shell versions
[10:56] <amurray> oh ok - thanks
[10:56] <Laney> If the fix is elsewhere eventually then it can be reassigned of course; don't think it super matters to have the package right from the start
[10:56] <Laney> it'll still appear on our list regardless
[11:02] <amurray> Laney: done - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell-extension-appindicator/+bug/1866042 :)
[11:03] <Laney> r0x0r
[11:18] <ricotz> hello desktopers
[11:18] <seb128> hey ricotz , how are you?
[11:18] <ricotz> could someone sync vala 0.48.0-1 from debian
[11:19] <ricotz> seb128, hey, I would like to say good, but it seems my desktop machine died
[11:20] <seb128> :-(
[11:20] <seb128> hardware issue?
[11:21] <oSoMoN> hey ricotz
[11:21] <seb128> ricotz, vala synced now
[11:21] <hellsworth> hi ricotz
[11:21] <ricotz> seb128, looks like the mainboard :\
[11:21] <ricotz> hey oSoMoN hellsworth
[11:22] <sil2100> Laney: let me try looking now or after the lunch
[11:23] <sil2100> Laney: ah, I see Steve already +1'ed!
[11:23]  * sil2100 moves on
[11:26] <Laney> ah GREAT!
[12:37] <oSoMoN> hellsworth, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1722256
[13:20] <oSoMoN> ricotz, FYI bug #1866059, I'm looking into it
[13:22] <ricotz> oSoMoN, ok
[15:06] <duflu> seb128, bug 1863603
[15:06] <duflu> seb128, bug 1863603
[16:15] <ricotz> kenvandine, hi :), please pick up libgee 0.20.3 -- https://gitlab.gnome.org/Community/Ubuntu/gnome-sdk/-/blob/gnome-3-34-1804-sdk/snapcraft.yaml#L148


[01:35] <Nebbuchanezzar> hello...i have a quick question...
[01:37] <Nebbuchanezzar> i currently have an HTC wing, and am looking to replace it...i stumbled upon the UME FAQ on the ubuntu site, and am very intrigued...however, i was wondering, are there any recommended devices? i read about the lpia, and all, but cant seem to find any actual products, just white-papers, and the sort...any help would be greatly appreciated...
[16:15] <netdur> can ubuntu-mobile (or notebook) be installed on pc?
[16:18] <BenLauDC> yes , but it will erase the partition
[16:19] <netdur> thanks
[16:22] <netdur> which image I should download?
[16:41] <persia> netdur: mccaslin likely works best for a PC, although you'll likely have to fuss with drivers anyway, so the menlow image may be just as good.
[16:41] <netdur> Thank you
[16:41] <BenLauDC> It is better to run inside a virtual machine
[16:44] <netdur> I got old pcs (p2 & p3), I wanna try ubuntu-mobile as replacement for puppylinux
[16:44] <persia> Yes.  Either a virtual machine or a small high-DPI laptop (or similar device) if you have one.
[16:44] <persia> Running on a regular PC tends to look fairly bad, and can be frustrating to use directly.
[16:45] <netdur> why?
[16:46] <persia> It looks bad because the images are targeted at a high-DPI environment, so tend to look blurry or pixellated at e.g. 86 DPI.  The virtual machine doesn't really help with that.
[16:47] <persia> It can be frustrating to use directly for normal computing activities due to the small number of included applications and nature of the interface: the current images are very much designed for limited environments, and do not well take advantage of larger equipment.
[16:47] <netdur> is regular tv a "high-DPI"
[16:48] <persia> Depends on the size of the TV :)
[16:48] <netdur> (because at end of day, those pc are just test bed for media center)
[16:48] <netdur> ok
[16:48] <persia> Regular TV is typically QVGA, so at e.g. 200 DPIm it would be a screen about 1.6" x 1.2"
[16:49] <persia> As much as I like Ubuntu Mobile, for a media centre, I suspect you'd be better served by Mythbuntu.
[16:49] <netdur> nah! I checked that, myth too bloated
[16:50] <netdur> and a nightmare from usability view
[16:51] <persia> Hmm.  It's fairly similar in terms of minimums.  While Ubuntu Mobile is known to work well with 800MHz processors, those are the Intel A110s, which tend to do more per clock than many processors.  Less than 256MB RAM would be painful, and 512MB would be better (I use 1024 on a 800MHz A110, and it still feels slow).
[16:52] <persia> On the other hand, if usability is your issue, please take a look: it may be that some combination of the packages used in both environments will work for you.
[17:18] <netdur> do ubuntu support processor C7?
[17:22] <persia> Ubuntu does, but only for the i386 architecture.  The current Ubuntu Mobile images are only available for the lpia architecture.  As a result, the process of getting Ubuntu Mobile to work on a C7 is not well understood.
[17:23] <persia> This is in large part a result of the late release of Ubuntu Mobile for 8.04, and may not be such an issue for 8.10 (but is certainly awkward today).
[17:26] <netdur> thanks
[17:28] <BenLauDC> I could built for EeePC using i386 package, so I think it is fine, but ofcoz you may need to adjust few packages
[17:28]  * cody-somerville wonders if git is supposed to segfault or glibc barf everytime he tries to use it to clone.
[17:29] <persia> Yeah.  There's a lot of lpia-specific hacks on the core packages, which makes the i386 version a little odd.
[17:29] <persia> cody-somerville: What's happening now?
[17:33] <cody-somerville> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/29347/
[17:33] <cody-somerville> persia, I tried twice before as well and it segfaulted both times.
[17:35] <cody-somerville> I think it occurs when it can't connect or something. I'll try again in a little bit.
[17:36] <persia> cody-somerville: Absolutely no idea why you get that.  Also, I find that M-I-C to be even more broken than others, and recommend dget http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/ubuntu/pool/main/m/moblin-image-creator/moblin-image-creator_0.44+repack-0ubuntu12~804um2.dsc
[17:36] <cody-somerville> ok
[17:37] <cody-somerville> thanks
[17:37] <persia> Also, you seem to be missing some dbgsym packages that make the backtrace less than useful.  It's likely worth filing a bug against git, as it oughtn't segfault ever (nothing should)
[17:40]  * cody-somerville nods.
[18:53] <jeward> Hi, can I expect to run ubuntu mobile on a Nokia n810 anytime soon?
[18:57] <persia> jeward: There's two outstanding issues, and no published schedule for either.  Firstly, Ubuntu doesn't run on ARM.  Secondly, that hardware has some bits for which there are no free drivers.
[18:58] <persia> Several people have compiled Ubuntu for ARM in various ways, and there is a Debian armel port, so the first mostly needs work and hosting.
[18:58] <jeward> So maybe never.
[18:58] <persia> The second is more problematic, and the answer may be never, although some people may be working to reverse engineer what is needed (I don't know for sure).
[18:58] <jeward> What's the best channel to talk about the n810 on?
[18:59] <persia> I'm not sure.
[19:08] <jeward> Hmmm: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2097004728.html
[19:09] <persia> Yep.  That's one of the efforts to compile Ubuntu for ARM.  I've only heard good things.
[19:15] <ogra> persia, hey, so how is the heatwave up there ?
[19:16] <ogra> seems you are not dropping off that often anymore
[19:17] <persia> ogra: A new ambient fan and compressed air can do wonders.  Now if only it were a "heat wave" rather than just summer :)
[19:19] <jeward> This means what in terms of ARM nomenclature: TI OMAP 2420, 400Mhz
[19:19] <jeward>
[19:19] <ogra> heh
[19:20] <persia> Texas Instruments, (chip type) (model number) (clock speed)
[19:20] <jeward> Yeah, I'm wonderingt how that translates into ARM?
[19:20] <jeward> ARMv5EL for example.
[19:21] <persia> That sounds roughly right off the top of my head, but I'm not 100% sure.
[22:28] <JCante> are there any MIDs that ship with Ubuntu Mobile?
[22:28] <JCante> and are there any that support it that are affordable and don't suck?
[23:14] <Cody> Hello