[08:33] <imbrandon> @schedule us/central
[08:33] <Ubugtu> Schedule for US/Central: 01 Aug 15:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 15:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 07:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 10:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 15:00: Technical Board
[10:29] <Seveas> Burgwork, re: your blog: I would LOVE it if it were easy to use gai to add a repository -- like some sort of deb file containing repo info, gpg key and .desktop files
[02:32] <imbrandon> @schedule
[02:32] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 01 Aug 20:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 20:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 07:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 12:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 15:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 20:00: Technical Board
[07:56] <zul> @schedule montreal
[07:56] <Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 01 Aug 16:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 16:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 03:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 08:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 11:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 16:00: Technical Board
[08:21] <Seveas> @now amsterdam
[08:21] <Ubugtu> Current time in Europe/Amsterdam: August 01 2006, 20:21:22 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 1 hour 38 minutes
[09:05] <Toadstool> @schedule paris
[09:05] <Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 01 Aug 22:00: Technical Board | 02 Aug 22:00: Edubuntu | 03 Aug 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 09 Aug 14:00: Edubuntu | 10 Aug 17:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 15 Aug 22:00: Technical Board
[09:13] <mc44> @now
[09:13] <Ubugtu> Current time in Etc/UTC: August 01 2006, 19:13:35 - Next meeting: Technical Board in 46 minutes
[09:38] <pitti> hi
[09:39] <zul> hey pitti
[09:41] <ogra> :)
[09:41] <pitti> thanks, we might need them
[09:41] <ogra> yup :)
[09:41] <pitti> although I had good echo on my mail
[09:41] <pitti> not much, though
[09:41] <zul> which email?
[09:42] <ogra> i agree that its no suitable to enable it by default ... (even though i often thought about it for ltsp stuff)
[09:42] <Toadstool> zul: the one about zeroconf, I suppose :)
[09:42] <Toadstool> hi here
[09:43] <zul> heh i tuned out for zeroconf a while ago
[09:43] <Toadstool> zul: just a guess as avahi is listed in this meeting agenda ;)
[10:01] <mjg59> Evening
[10:01] <Keybuk> do we have an mdz?
[10:01] <mjg59> mdz: Here?
[10:02] <mjg59> Seemingly not right now
[10:02] <Keybuk> SMS sent
[10:03] <smurf> .. how do you send a short message service? I tend to restrict myself to actual short messages. ;-)
[10:03] <Keybuk> smurf: pedant
[10:04] <Gloubiboulga> evening all
[10:04] <smurf> Keybuk: language is strange
[10:05] <mjg59> Keybuk: Shall we get on with it?
[10:05] <zul> afternoon
[10:05] <Keybuk> yup
[10:05] <mjg59> Ok
[10:05] <Keybuk> no reply, let's get on with it
[10:05] <mjg59> So, core-dev members?
[10:06] <mjg59> Looks like Guavin and Hobbsee
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> yes
[10:06] <ogra> seems Hobbsse didnt wake up in time
[10:06] <Keybuk> Gloubiboulga: you first then
[10:06] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, let's go with you
[10:06] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Brief introduction?
[10:06] <Keybuk> (if somebody can ping hobbsse, please do so)
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> ok, here is my wiki page : http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Gauvain
[10:06] <Gloubiboulga> (LP account linked on it)
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> My point with becoming an core-dev is to be able to work on xubuntu
[10:07] <Gloubiboulga> i've already worked on it when I became a MOTU, but all the packages are in main now
[10:07] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: How many Xubuntu core-devs are there right now?
[10:08] <ogra> one
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, one: janimo
[10:08] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, so that's a pretty good argument :)
[10:08] <Gloubiboulga> hehe
[10:08] <janimo> we'll hopefully grow by 100% tonight
[10:08] <mjg59> janimo: How would you rate Gloubiboulga's contributions?
[10:08] <janimo> great
[10:08] <janimo> he has helped a lot
[10:09] <janimo> and having him work on main packages would helpe even more
[10:09] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: You mention in your wiki page that you think xubuntu is lacking in some areas. How would you improve those?
[10:10] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, in two ways: 1. coding (ourself and working with upstream), 2. using already exinstant tools in ubuntu
[10:10] <mjg59> How close is your relationship with upstream?
[10:10] <Gloubiboulga> 2. is not always easy, since we try to avoid gnome libs
[10:11] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, how do you plan to avoid code duplication in the future ? there were some issues in the past ...
[10:11] <Gloubiboulga> I have not a strong relationship with upstream, since Jani did all the job until now :)
[10:11] <Gloubiboulga> ogra, cdbs multibuild is the key IMO
[10:11] <ogra> patching the gnome deps out of the apps ?
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> several apps could be build with and without gnome deps
[10:12] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: How familiar are you with building multiple binaries without using cdbs?
[10:12] <mdz> mjg59,keybuk: morning
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> ogra, we'd like to avoid this as much as possible
[10:12] <janimo> ogra, that pacthing out is fairly routine. We have yet to come up with the CDBS magic
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, I've worked on the goffice and gnumeric multibuild
[10:12] <Gloubiboulga> (plain debhelper)
[10:13] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: Ok, cool
[10:13] <Gloubiboulga> getting the same result with CDBS is still a problem
[10:14] <Gloubiboulga> but I'm sure we'll find solutions (working with jbailey maybe?)
[10:14] <mjg59> Gloubiboulga: So while there's some desire to avoid Xubuntu turning into something that's effectively identical to gnome, presumably you're keen on supporting the same basic infrastructure? (Stuff like hal, for instance)
[10:14] <dholbach> I'm happy with Gloubiboulga's work on goffice and gnumeric - there were some issues, he worked hard on getting them fixed, did the merges with Debian and talked to the Debian maintainer to get the patch merged back (as it was not trivial)
[10:14] <pitti> Gloubiboulga: it's not a problem (it's not more effort than with plain debhelper), but not as convenient as it could be
[10:15] <Gloubiboulga> mjg59, sure, Xubuntu is ubuntu based, we don't forget that
[10:15] <janimo> mjg59: we already depend on hal for PM and removable volumes
[10:16] <janimo> and soon laptop keys I hope
[10:16] <Gloubiboulga> pitti, we wan't something that can easily maintainable, since gnome packagers will work on the same packages too
[10:16] <mjg59> Ok, I think I'm done
[10:16] <mjg59> Keybuk, mdz: ?
[10:16] <janimo> and it's ok with being almost identical to gnome as far as looks and some features go, if we can get there with less resource usage
[10:17] <seb128> Gloubiboulga: cdbs is easy to maintain ;)
[10:17] <Keybuk> Gloubiboulga: what kind of integration with things like network manager, gnome power manager, etc. do you plan for XFCE?
[10:17] <Keybuk> we're increasingly using these in Ubuntu
[10:17] <pitti> Gloubiboulga: let's talk about this in a separate discussion, I'm sure we can figure something out
[10:17] <Gloubiboulga> seb128, sure, but with lots and lots of hacks for the multibuilds, it might be a little harder ;)
[10:17] <seb128> Gloubiboulga: not that many hack, it's shorted than the debhelper variant
[10:18] <seb128> anyway, that's not really the topic now ;)
[10:19] <Gloubiboulga> Keybuk, well, that's part of the "avoid duplication" spec. gnome power management for example could be easily used in xubuntu
[10:19] <ogra> the problem will rather be maintaining the patches than the build system i guess :)
[10:19] <janimo> Keybuk: I have looked at both and would use them if we can get them build gnome-less. They both dep on libgnomeui which needs all the rest of gnome libs
[10:19] <Keybuk> doesn't that break their GNOME functionality?
[10:20] <seb128> Gloubiboulga: it's using gconf, isn't that an issue for you?
[10:20] <janimo> Keybuk: some apps only depend on gnome libs because of legacy code. Some uses are of course valid
[10:20] <mdz> gconf is fairly light as the issues go
[10:20] <Gloubiboulga> seb128, no, we have gconf too on xubuntu
[10:20] <janimo> seb128: we consider gconf ok for now, compared to the rest of the libs
[10:20] <janimo> it is used by gdm anyway
[10:21] <seb128> ok, I though you were discussing with mvo some time ago about getting update tools working without gconf or something like that
[10:21] <seb128> no, gdm doesn't use gconf
[10:21] <seb128> but it should, the gdm.conf is not fun to maintain :p
[10:21] <janimo> Keybuk: I try to bring this up on gnome-devel, there's an ongoing thread which touches on libgnomeui in particluar
[10:21] <janimo> seb128: yes update-manager work w/o gconf
[10:22] <janimo> that was an issue because of the gnome python bindings, which even if you only use gconf-python brings all the libs since the bindings are monolithic
[10:22] <seb128> right
[10:22] <mdz> heh
[10:22] <janimo> seb128: gdm uses gconf via keyring or some other dependency then
[10:23] <janimo> for gdm-setup
[10:23] <Gloubiboulga> hi mdz
[10:23] <airjump> hello
[10:23] <seb128> janimo: I doubt of it
[10:24] <Keybuk> mdz: any questions?
[10:24] <seb128> janimo: let's have a look on that later, but gdm doesn't use the keyring nor gconf and they got ride of some of the libgnome* functions they were using
[10:24] <janimo> seb128: hmm, something used gconf in dapper, via gdm. Looks like not keyring then
[10:24] <mjg59> seb128: janimo: Can we leave this until later?
[10:25] <janimo> seb128: I know I sent the patch for getting rid of libgnome*
[10:25] <janimo> mjg59: sure soryy
[10:25] <seb128> mjg59: that's just what I said
[10:25] <mjg59> No problem :)
[10:25] <mjg59> mdz: Going once...
[10:26] <mjg59> mdz: Twice...
[10:26] <mdz> mjg59: stand by
[10:26] <airjump> bye
[10:29] <mdz> mjg59: ok
[10:29] <mjg59> mdz: Any questions?
[10:30] <mdz> mjg59: settled out of band
[10:30] <mjg59> Ok. Votes?
[10:30] <Keybuk> +1
[10:30] <mdz> +1
[10:31] <ogra> Gloubiboulga, congrats !
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga> thanks :)
[10:31] <Toadstool> Gloubiboulga: yay!!! congrats' :)
[10:31] <dholbach> congratulations Gloubiboulga!
[10:31] <janimo> Gloubiboulga: \o/
[10:31] <imbrandon> Gloubiboulga: congrats ;)
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga> dholbach, janimo, thanks for the support
[10:31] <pitti> Gloubiboulga: welcome!
[10:31] <Keybuk> Hobbsee hasn't woken up, so we'll move onto ubuntu-dev candidates
[10:31] <Gloubiboulga> thanks pitti, Toadstool, imbrandon
[10:32] <Gloubiboulga> and ogra!
[10:32] <mjg59> Various ubuntu-dev candidates on the list
[10:32] <mjg59> Any of you here?
[10:32] <Keybuk> ttyfscker, azeem, imbrandon, tepsipakki, "Juliano Bastos"
[10:33] <imbrandon> ...
[10:33] <Keybuk> azeem: you first then
[10:33] <bddebian> azeem++\
[10:33] <mjg59> azeem: Brief introduction to yourself?
[10:33] <azeem> I am Michael Banck, my wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelBanck.  I am a Debian Developer for a couple of years now and Ubuntu Member for some time as well.
[10:33] <azeem> I've been helping people in #ubuntu-motu mostly, and coordinated chemistry-related UbuntuScience packages with Jordan Mantha in Debian.  I have also tried to better the Debian<->Ubuntu relationship where possible.
[10:33] <azeem> I am applying for ubuntu-dev to integrate the opensync framework (together with lifeless) and maintain the various chemistry packages in universe (together with UbuntuScience).
[10:33] <Keybuk> azeem: your wiki page claims you do not plan to do any generic MOTU work at this point ?
[10:33] <azeem> .
[10:34] <azeem> Keybuk: I'm pretty occupied with my PhD right now
[10:34] <mjg59> azeem: So you're mostly planning on focusing on a specific small area?
[10:35] <Keybuk> azeem: have you done much work with the MOTU to date?
[10:35] <ogra> azeem is around since a very long time in -motu and was helping a lot of newcomers with basic packaging ...
[10:35] <mdz> azeem: a similar set of packages to what you work with in Debian?
[10:36] <azeem> mdz: well, not the Hurd stuff, for starters
[10:36] <ogra> (very long time == nearly as long as the channel exists)
[10:36] <bddebian> haha
[10:37] <azeem> mjg59: I'm trying to concentrate on opensync and MotuScience for now, yes
[10:37] <ogra> i think dholbach can confirm that ...
[10:37] <mjg59> azeem: Sounds good to me
[10:37] <mdz> azeem: what motivated you to apply for official status at this time after having participated in the development community for some time now?
[10:37] <dholbach> azeem has been around for a long time, although i didn't work with him (which as ogra told me might be due to different sleeping patterns).
[10:37] <azeem> Keybuk: I fixed about a handful of MotuScience Malone bugs on the Debian side coordinating with LaserJock
[10:38] <dholbach> ogra:  :-)
[10:38] <azeem> mdz: we've now got the opensync stuff in Debian/Ubuntu, and I'd like to be able to push/merge/sync them on both sides if one freezes
[10:39] <Keybuk> azeem: lifeless is already a member of ubuntu-dev, no?
[10:39] <azeem> Keybuk: yes
[10:41] <Keybuk> to be honest, at the moment, my concern is that you won't have the time to do much work in ubuntu-dev
[10:41] <Keybuk> and that may mean you don't keep up with other changes that are necesseary
[10:41] <bddebian> Any less than half the people that have "abandoned" us?
[10:41] <azeem> Keybuk: what kind of changes?
[10:43] <Keybuk> any; policy changes in packaging, server policy, configuration policy, etc.
[10:43] <azeem> ah, ok
[10:44] <bddebian> Keybuk: Seriously, any less than the rest of us MOTU's?
[10:45] <LaserJock> azeem has been very instrumental in my packaging (he is sponsoring my packages in Debian) and has done a great job of working on the Debian/Ubuntu relationship, especially for science packages
[10:46] <Keybuk> mjg59, mdz: any questions?
[10:46] <LaserJock> he clearly knows what he's doing, has helped out quite a bit in #ubuntu-motu and while he isn't as active as crimsun or bddebian perhaps, it seems to me he keeps up as well as most MOTUs with what's going on in Ubuntu development
[10:46] <lucas> I think that it's easy to get tired while doing MOTU work. People with limited time resources are probably much less likely to burn out. Also, it scales well, so it's not a problem to have many people dedicating only a small amount of time.
[10:47] <mdz> azeem: in which ways do you feel that the relationship between Debian developers and Ubuntu developers could be improved?
[10:47] <azeem> mdz: by mediating where possible
[10:47] <Keybuk> azeem: could you give an example?
[10:47] <azeem> e.g., yesterday, there was another mob in #debian.de when they again found out they have "accounts" on launchpad
[10:48] <azeem> so siretart and me tried to cool them down
[10:48] <azeem> and I subsequently talked to the people in #launchpad whether anything could be done to make the "not affiliated with canonical or ubuntu" more explicit for those kind of people pages on launchpad
[10:50] <mdz> azeem: do you think that that concern affects launchpad more than other directories of open source contributors?
[10:51] <azeem> mdz: I think that pages like "https://launchpad.net/people/panthera/+packages" are somewhat misleading, yes
[10:52] <azeem> personally, I don't think it is problem, but I can see how some people who are not Ubuntu-friendly in the first place react strongly to them
[10:52] <Hobbsee> morning all, did i miss the meeting?
[10:52] <ogra> nope
[10:52] <Hobbsee> oh yay :)
[10:52] <raphink> Hobbsee: the meeting is going on now
[10:52] <azeem> most of the time, it is due to missing or false information, and I am trying to set the record straight where possible
[10:52] <mdz> azeem: it's essentially just parsing a Packages file, though
[10:53] <mjg59> mdz: It does seem to suggest that the developer uploaded that package to Ubuntu, which isn't entirely accurate
[10:53] <Hobbsee> raphink: cool, okay. we got some current logs here?  (more current than fabbione's)
[10:53] <azeem> mdz: I understand
[10:53] <azeem> mdz: but "panthera" never created an account on launchpad
[10:53] <mjg59> But I think that's outside the scope of this section of the meeting
[10:53] <azeem> right
[10:53] <mdz> azeem: what sort of response did you receive from the launchpad team?
[10:54] <azeem> kiko agreed that this might be misleading and suggested some better wording
[10:55] <azeem> e.g. saying that this is not a real account, I think
[10:55] <mdz> I think that qualifying it according to the source of informaiton would probably be sufficient
[10:56] <mdz> if that page indicated that it was documenting package maintenance in Debian unstable, that would be an improvement
[10:57] <mjg59> mdz: Is launchpad considered part of the domain that the tech board have influence over?
[10:57] <raphink> hi mjg59
[10:57] <raphink> oops
[10:57] <raphink> sorry
[10:57] <mdz> mjg59: sometimes
[10:57] <mjg59> mdz: Heh
[10:58] <mjg59> mdz: My feeling is that we're not going to get much further on this topic without involving the launchpad guys, which is probably a conversation for a later date
[10:58] <ogra> if you look at the package itself its even worse ... https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/acroread/7.0.1-0.0.ubuntu1 he's listed as maintainer and creator ... which would also indicate that he uploaded it to ubuntu
[10:59] <ogra> (indeed that happens through teh sync ... but people might not know this)
[10:59] <siretart> ogra: https://launchpad.net/people/panthera/+packages does as well suggest that he uploaded it to ubuntu (at least for me)
[10:59] <mdz> mjg59: one worth having, certainly
[10:59] <ogra> siretart, yes. thats what we discussed before
[10:59] <mdz> moving on then?
[11:00] <mjg59> I think we're done for questioning?
[11:00] <mdz> I am
[11:00] <Hobbsee> (sorry for my lateness - 6am meetings are nasty)
[11:00] <mdz> Keybuk: anything else?
[11:01] <mdz> ok, votes
[11:02] <mjg59> +1 for me
[11:02] <mdz> +1
[11:03] <Keybuk> 0 from me, given limited time
[11:03] <ogra> welcome azeem !!
[11:03] <ogra> finally :)
[11:03] <imbrandon> congrats azeem
[11:03] <azeem> \o/
[11:03] <LaserJock> \o/
[11:03] <siretart> welcome azeem :)
[11:03] <pygi> \o/
[11:03] <raphink> :)
[11:03] <raphink> yeah
[11:03] <raphink> congrats azeem
[11:03] <mjg59> Ok
[11:04] <mjg59> imbrandon: You next?
[11:04] <mjg59> (and then back to Hobbsee, unless I've missed someone)
[11:04] <mdz> azeem: welcome
[11:04] <imbrandon> Hello , My name is Brandon Holtsclaw, and my wiki is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/imbrandon , I am an avid Kubuntu user and developer hopeful ( thus I'm here today ) . My goals are simplistic , basicly ( starting with the universe ) help do my part to bring Kubuntu to the level of polish that Ubuntu is ( Specificly in the default settings area for k* apps and eventualy kubuntu-default-settings in main ) I have Packaged , merged ,
[11:04] <imbrandon> ubuntu Dev's and many Diffrent MOTU's also the Ubuntu BugSquad plus Upstream KDE ( specificly Konversation the Team ) Such as Riddell,Hobbsee,Crimsun,dholbach,jpatrick,bddebian and quite a few more I'm probably forgetting as I'm just waking up. My experince and goals are listed on my wiki. Sorry I dont have a better intro , I'm workin with 4.5 hours sleep comming here heh.
[11:04] <mjg59> And let's see if we can speed this up, I'd like to be elsewhere :)
[11:04] <imbrandon> ouch that dident paste well
[11:04] <azeem> mdz: thanks
[11:04] <Hobbsee> mjg59: okay, i'm going to be afk for about 15 mins then.  I support imbrandon's work, having uploaded some of his packages, in the past couple of weeks
[11:04] <azeem> mjg59: didn't you bring your wine?
[11:04] <mjg59> imbrandon: Who have you worked with in getting your stuff uploaded?
[11:04] <mdz> imbrandon: who has been sponsoring your uploads to date?
[11:05] <mjg59> azeem: May have been in the pub already
[11:05] <Hobbsee> mjg59: mdz : me for one :)
[11:05] <imbrandon> hobsee crimsun , bdebian ummm
[11:05] <viper550> I bet he didn't bring Wine because he doesn't use Windows apps! *rimshot*
[11:05] <raphink> imbrandon has been very active on #ubuntu-motu
[11:05] <crimsun> I've sponsored several. He learns quickly and has an increasingly improved grasp of troubleshooting packaging.
[11:05] <imbrandon> ajmitch has reviewd a few in my early stages i dont think he has sponsored any yet
[11:05] <imbrandon> Riddell ....
[11:06] <mjg59> crimsun: So you'd be happy with him being able to upload packages directly?
[11:06] <Riddell> yep, I support imbrandon too, he's done a bunch of merges and bugfixes for KDE packages
[11:06] <Toadstool> yeah, imbrandon has done a really good work so far
[11:06] <imbrandon> sorry its early but those are the main ppl i poke most of the time becouse they are generaly in the same timeframe as me
[11:06] <crimsun> mjg59: definitely.
[11:06] <bddebian> +1 imbrandon
[11:07] <tseng> ++ from me as well. he's been doing consistant work for awhile no
[11:07] <tseng> *now
[11:07] <mjg59> imbrandon: what would you plan on doing as an motu?
[11:08] <imbrandon> for the most part make sure the misc packages for K* fit into the rest of the desktop better
[11:08] <imbrandon> and that transitions are done smooth and timely
[11:08] <imbrandon> ( i also work with a select few packages in main a tad )
[11:08] <imbrandon> mostly all kde types
[11:08] <mjg59> Ok
[11:09] <mdz> bddebian, tseng: do you have any specific feedback on code contributions or interaction with the MOTU team?
[11:09] <tseng> mdz: I don't have feeback on specific uploads off the top of my head
[11:10] <tseng> I can say he has been a positive influence in MOTU
[11:10] <bddebian> Aye.  I have sponsored a few uploads for him
[11:10] <tseng> you can tell who is sticking around, helping out, and fixing things.
[11:11] <imbrandon> also my wiki documents my plans for universe better than i explained here
[11:11] <imbrandon> as i'm a bit tired still ( just woke up 5 minutes prior to the meeting )
[11:11] <raphink> ouch
[11:12] <imbrandon> heh yea not my normal timeframe ;) hehe
[11:13] <mdz> imbrandon: what was the motivation behind buntudot.org?
[11:13] <imbrandon> at first it was becouse the fridge was stale
[11:13] <imbrandon> and we ( the community ) wanted a universal news source
[11:13] <imbrandon> since the fridge has been rejuvinated and soon buntudot.org will point to the fridge
[11:14] <imbrandon> and our teams are in the works of merging
[11:14] <mdz> imbrandon: what was your experience in working with the fridge team to revive it?
[11:14] <imbrandon> with the guidance of sabdfl and janes
[11:14] <imbrandon> me and whiprush are actualy the ones that came up wioth the plan
[11:14] <imbrandon> so its kinda our baby
[11:14] <imbrandon> ( as far as bringing our two teams into one )
[11:15] <imbrandon> and makeing a "one community" , we discussed it with the members of our two teams via the fridge-devel list
[11:15] <imbrandon> and mark gave the blessing
[11:15] <imbrandon> all thats lacking now is the tech bits getting worked out
[11:17] <mdz> mjg59,Keybuk: anything else?
[11:17] <Hobbsee> mdz: i'm back
[11:18] <Hobbsee> mdz: & applying for core-dev
[11:18] <mjg59> Hobbsee: Not quite yet
[11:18] <Keybuk> nothing from me
[11:18] <mjg59> I think I'm done
[11:18] <mjg59> votes?
[11:18] <Keybuk> +1
[11:18] <Hobbsee> oh crud, i'm a little early.  sorry, misread.  still incredibly tired.
[11:18] <mdz> +1
[11:19] <ogra> welcome imbrandon
[11:19] <Hobbsee> congratulations imbrandon
[11:19] <imbrandon> ;)
[11:19] <mjg59> +1
[11:19] <mjg59> Ok
[11:19] <gnomefreak> congrats imbrandon ;)
[11:19] <imbrandon> thanks \o/
[11:19] <mjg59> Any more ubuntu-dev?
[11:19] <Keybuk> ttyfscker, tepsipakki, "Juliano Bastos"
[11:20] <Keybuk> none of those appear to be here
[11:20] <mjg59> Ok
[11:20] <mjg59> Hobbsee: Intro?
[11:20] <ogra> Hobbsee !!
[11:20] <Hobbsee> mjg59: what do you want from me?  most of you saw me last meeting
[11:20] <Hobbsee> i got motu at last meeting, now i'm applying for main
[11:20] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: I'm curious as to why you wish to jump to main so quickly
[11:21] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: because a lot of kde stuff is in main, and it's very hard to get uploaders for it.
[11:21] <Keybuk> you've only had upload rights to universe for two weeks, and I'm not convinced that's enough time for us to make a decision
[11:21] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i was very lucky to even get 4 uploads to main in yesterday, with people to sponsor them.
[11:21] <Keybuk> who are the Kubuntu team members who are also core-dev ?
[11:22] <Hobbsee> ah, raphink, tonio_, riddell
[11:22] <mjg59> Ideally the ones who are core-dev /before/ this meeting
[11:22] <ogra> heh
[11:22] <Hobbsee> crimsun, infinity, pitti, riddell, and a few other people have uploaded my core things.  oh, zul too.
[11:22] <raphink> yep
[11:22] <ogra> Keybuk, did you count her uploads on edgy-changes ?
[11:22] <Hobbsee> ogra: how high's that number now?  do i want to know?  :P
[11:23] <raphink> Hobbsee has been doing an amazing work lately
[11:23] <raphink> uploading quite a log
[11:23] <raphink> and working hard on bugs
[11:23] <tseng> I sort of agree with Keybuk, even though Hobbsee is great imo
[11:23] <pitti> right, I uploaded one merge and one update AFAI can recall
[11:23] <tseng> not a fantastic precedent
[11:23] <pitti> they were okay
[11:23] <raphink> although she hasn't been a MOTU for long
[11:23] <tseng> to jump to main in 2 weeks
[11:24] <Hobbsee> Ideally, i would have gone for MOTU earlier, but because of a number of circumstances, i didnt.
[11:24] <Keybuk> tseng: we've done it before, if there's a particular need
[11:24] <Hobbsee> which would put me in the right place for applying to main today.
[11:24] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: why didn't you apply for main at the last TB meeting as well?
[11:24] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: tried to.  they wouldnt let me - and i wanted to test out how the actual uploading worked before applying for it.
[11:24] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: i can modify packages and all that fine - but the actual uploading bit i didnt trust myself to do in main until i'd done a few in universe.
[11:25] <Hobbsee> heh.  a few.  i think i did more than a few :P
[11:25] <imbrandon> more than a few
[11:25] <ogra> plenty
[11:25] <imbrandon> heh
[11:25] <pygi> :)
[11:25] <raphink> hehe
[11:25] <imbrandon> -changes is more like -hobsee lately ( but thats a good thing )
[11:25] <Hobbsee> hahahaa
[11:25] <Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: I'll let you ask some questions ... :)
[11:26] <Hobbsee> uh oh, sound's scary.  i'm still not terribly awake yet.
[11:26] <raphink> :)
[11:26] <mjg59> Hobbsee: So, given that you'd be able to upload core bits of infrastructure and cause everything to break, why should we trust you? :)
[11:27] <mdz> Hobbsee: what stirred your interest in contributing to Ubuntu in the first place?
[11:27] <Hobbsee> future plans are to organise kubuntu, become kubuntu community manager officially, etc.  and keep working on the distro, making it better of course, with sane defaults.  Also important is getting a fast turnaorund time for important bugfixes, which me having core would help with
[11:27] <Hobbsee> mjg59: because i've yet to upload anything cracked in any of my packages yet, including most that were done before i was a MOTU.
[11:28] <Hobbsee> mdz: got sick of windows and it's constant crashing.  got to compiling, thought "hey, this is fun", and got more and more interested in the way things were being done - and saw how much was still needing to be done
[11:28] <mdz> Hobbsee: is your primary interest in -core-dev a practical one, avoiding sponsorship?  or are you interested in broader development work?
[11:28] <Hobbsee> mdz: did some cd testing, bugwork, etc for a while, then moved into packaging
[11:29] <Hobbsee> mdz: can you define broader development work please?
[11:29] <ogra> writing the killer app for kubuntu indeed ;)
[11:29] <Hobbsee> mdz: well, obviously, it's partly a practical one.  it's very difficult to get kde sutff uploaded to main, because most devs wont upload kde stuff unless it's really simple.
[11:29] <mdz> Hobbsee: contributions across a broader range of packages or subsystems, interest in furthering the core goals of Ubuntu
[11:29] <Hobbsee> mainly because they dont know the code base, etc
[11:30] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: are the other kubuntu team members not helpful?
[11:30] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: they are, when they're around.  and im' in a shocking timezone for such things.
[11:30] <Keybuk> is the lack of desire to sponsor uploads within the kubuntu team a problem that needs addressing?
[11:30] <Keybuk> I wasn't aware sponsored uploads were timezone-dependant?
[11:30] <Hobbsee> mdz: right.  did you ever read last meeting's log, where i covered some of this?
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: they have to actually be awake and here at the time i want an upload....
[11:31] <Keybuk> do they not have e-mail?
[11:31] <Hobbsee> pitti is one of many
[11:31] <mdz> Hobbsee: last meeting of which group?
[11:31] <pitti> mainly because I cannot/do not want to test them
[11:31] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: they do.  email gets lots
[11:31] <ogra> mdz, TB
[11:31] <Keybuk> pitti: also myself ... I simply don't know C++ well enough to read patches
[11:31] <Hobbsee> mdz: TB, where i went for MOTU
[11:31] <pitti> so I only sponsor trivial patches
[11:32] <mdz> Hobbsee: no, I don't usually have time to catch up on IRC logs in detail after travel
[11:32] <Hobbsee> effectively what i'm doing now is my own uploads - the guys dont have time to test all kde patches, as they dont have the system there
[11:33] <Hobbsee> mdz: right. okay, i'll give you the short version then.  basically, i'm very organisational, so i'm looking at organising kubuntu to make it work a lot better, getting our developers trained, whatever their level, so that they can contribute, and to take some of the load off Riddell, who does an awesome job, but is still one man, and runs out of time
[11:33] <raphink> sounds nice
[11:33] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: most of the kubuntu team members arent in core - or motu, for that matter.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: we've still got quite a new development team, apart from Riddell, and a few others.
[11:34] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: in a handful of sentences, could you describe how shlibs work and what they're used for
[11:35] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: not really at this time of morning, but generally, yes.  means that if you have foo-dev as a build-dep then foo will be installed as a dep of the package
[11:35] <Hobbsee> so you dotn have to hardcode it into debian/control
[11:36] <Keybuk> when developing a library package, how would you make sure it works with this system?
[11:36] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: havent tried yet, that's something i'd ask for help on.
[11:37] <mdz> Hobbsee: for the most part, your contributions have taken the form of merges and syncs, more so than direct packaging/code contributions.  How would membership in -core-dev simplify that process, apart from avoiding the delay involved in sponsored uploads?
[11:37] <Hobbsee> even with core, i'm not out to upload anything and everything - i still dont know everything, there's still stuff i'd need help for.  but i'm not about to upload crackful stuff that i dont understand.  this isnt a "you are signing all rights away to asking questions"
[11:38] <Hobbsee> mdz: true. that's changing.  the last patches to amarok/kopete/libdvdread have been mostly patches, not merges and syncs
[11:38] <mdz> Hobbsee: it is, though, us signing away the requirement that questions be asked at all ;-)
[11:38] <Hobbsee> mdz: well, yes.  but i'm not irresponsible enough to never ask a question about something i dont know :P
[11:39] <raphink> true
[11:40] <Hobbsee> mdz: probably looking to commit more upstream stuff in the future, when i know how to code more.  but my focus at the moment is fixing a lot of the major bugs in kubuntu
[11:41] <Keybuk> mdz, mjg59: any further questions?
[11:41] <mjg59> I think I'm good
[11:41] <Keybuk> votes?
[11:42] <mdz> Hobbsee: -core-dev should be seen as a confirmation of a sustained, trustworthy contribution to the core infrastructure of Ubuntu, more so than as a convenience of process and upload privileges.  what do you see as your role in bringing Ubuntu (and/or Kubuntu) forward in pursuit of its goals which corresponds to -core-dev membership?
[11:42] <Hobbsee> gah.  i should copy and paste from last week, i think.
[11:43] <mdz> you'd be welcome, if the content would be helpful in context
[11:44] <Hobbsee> mdz: kubuntu has a rather shocking history for getting bugs fixed very slowly - it took over a month to fix a bug in the screensaver, since a patch was in kde bugs
[11:44] <Hobbsee> ack, dont think that made sense.
[11:45] <Hobbsee> mdz: mainly we have a problem of not enough people who can look at fixes, see if they're any good, and commit them if they do.  and the ones that can then have to get upload rights, so that means by getting sponsorship from Riddell
[11:45] <pitti> Hobbsee: if it was supposed to mean 'better QA', it did make sense :)
[11:46] <mdz> Riddell isn't the only member of -core-dev who can sponsor Kubuntu-related uploads, though
[11:47] <Hobbsee> mdz: there's a difference between "can" and "willing to".  \sh has been quite busy, too
[11:47] <pitti> after this talk I would consider it ok to do 'half-blind' sponsoring
[11:47] <pitti> i. e. just look at debdiffs for 'doesn't look totally crackful' and otherwise just upload
[11:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: even that would be helpful, as long as it actually happened
[11:48] <crimsun> I've sponsored several of Hobbsee's and found them to be "within scale" -- they're localised and broken out for quick verification. Furthermore, though I still build and test locally, I know she has already done that before pinging me.
[11:49] <mdz> Hobbsee: raphink is a -core-dev member with a focus on kubuntu contributions as well; there doesn't seem to be a shortage of folks to vet uploads
[11:49] <Hobbsee> mdz: true.  when he's around.
[11:49] <mdz> Hobbsee: no one can be around ALL of the time ;-)
[11:50] <Hobbsee> mdz: well, of course not.  did i say that?  :P
[11:50] <Keybuk> I don't believe it's necessary for them to be around; you should be able to request a sponsored upload by e-mail
[11:50] <lucas> I'm not sure I understand how sponsorship requests are processed for kubuntu. don't you have a mailing list where you could request sponsored uploads when you need one ? so the first one to catch it wins it ?
[11:51] <Hobbsee> lucas: no, it's primarily irc based - if you're not on irc, then you're very much out of the loop
[11:51] <Keybuk> this, by the sounds of it. is something that needs to be addressed
[11:51] <Hobbsee> lucas: the way it currently works is to just ping a motu who is around, or a core dev who is around, and ask them to upload.
[11:51] <pitti> lucas: we don't have a ML, primarily because I'd reckon that few people would actually use it
[11:52] <mdz> if sponsorship is problematic, that's a problem that we should address directly, rather than by liberal application of upload privileges
[11:52] <imbrandon> Keybuk: +1 on needs to be addressed ( kubuntu-devel@ ? )
[11:52] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: it is.  like i say, there's lots of good stuff in kubuntu, but there's also a heck of a lot that needs fixing
[11:52] <bddebian> That same can be said for Universe :-)
[11:52] <Hobbsee> mdz: how do you propose that to work?  very few people from the ubuntu side will take on kubuntu packages, as you've already seen.
[11:52] <lucas> maybe a "ready to sponsor" team could be created on LP, and people would file bugs against it to get their packages sponsored.
[11:52] <lucas> similar to sync requests
[11:53] <Toadstool> well, for Universe, I used to use LP and assign bugs to motu-reviewers
[11:53] <Keybuk> we can discuss that afterwards
[11:53] <pitti> lucas: true, and with a script similar to request_sync this could be made fairly easy
[11:53] <Hobbsee> lucas: i believe motu reviewers works like that.  i think i eventually got a couple of uploads sponsored like that - but it's quite slow, and i never know if it's been done.
[11:53] <mdz> Hobbsee: I acknowledge that, but surely it isn't practical to expect all Kubuntu contributors to become core developers in order to avoid the issue
[11:53] <Hobbsee> mdz: of course.  just some of them
[11:54] <Keybuk> I don't agree that Kubuntu is a bastard child at all
[11:54] <Keybuk> why do you say that?
[11:55] <Keybuk> your problem seems to be a failing of its own development team, rather than of a lack of external support
[11:55] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: what i said above - we're getting people, they're getting better, but it's still very hard....well, yeah.
[11:56] <Hobbsee> +1 to Keybuk, and i'm sure my brain's gone.
[11:56] <Keybuk> mdz: any further questions ?
[11:56] <mdz> Keybuk: we need to move on I think
[11:56] <Keybuk> we do, we're already 2 hours in
[11:57] <Keybuk> mjg59 has had to go
[11:57] <Hobbsee> i need to go as well
[11:57] <Hobbsee> need to be at uni on time today.
[11:57] <mdz> ok then
[11:57] <Hobbsee> well, i needed to leave half an hour ago, but that's beside the point :P
[11:58] <Keybuk> -1 from me, I'm afraid;  Hobbsee: you've been an excellent contributor so far, and are certainly invaluable.  I just don't believe you've _yet_ gained the experience for main upload rights, I have no doubt that you will though
[11:58] <Keybuk> it appears you have a problem gaining sponsorship, and I think that's something we should address directly, rather than working around it by granting main upload rights to everyone
[11:58] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: fair enough.  this issue does need to be addressed though.
[11:58] <tseng> Hobbsee: I hope you are not discouraged to reapply in a few months
[11:59] <ogra> yeah
[11:59] <mdz> Hobbsee: I appreciate and value you contributions, but I'd very much prefer to address the sponsorship issue directly rather than using it as justification for -core-dev
[11:59] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: propose a solution later, rather than just saying "it doesnt work and needs fixing".
[11:59] <Hobbsee> mdz: ditto
[11:59] <bddebian> Hobbsee: Yeah, unlike me :-)
[11:59] <Keybuk> indeed, please do continue your excellent work
[11:59] <mdz> s/you/your/
[12:00] <Keybuk> shall we address the sponsorship problem now?
[12:00] <Keybuk> Riddell: ping?
[12:00] <mdz> I'd be glad to consider that situation explicitly, either at a future meeting or ad hoc
[12:00] <bddebian> I'd like to hear it but I have to go
[12:00] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: if you have to.  i really do have to be at uni on time today, otherwise it's not going to be worth living around here :P
[12:00] <Keybuk> pitti: you've been doing some main sponsorship, would you like to own the problem and work on a solution?
[12:00] <ogra> Keybuk, haven't we still that darn avahi thing on the agenda ?
[12:00] <pitti> Keybuk: yep
[12:01] <ogra> we're at 2h
[12:01] <Keybuk> Hobbsee: that's ok, this is a problem we can address out of band :)  have fun!
[12:01] <Riddell> pong
[12:01] <mdz> it's crucial that we have a healthy and maintainable system for vetting uploads through mentoring and sponsorship
[12:01] <imbrandon> i have to run but let me put my 0.2 cents in on the sponsorship before i run, I doo think we either need a ML just for that ( kubuntu-devel@ ? ) or a way to track sponsorship req in LP
[12:01] <Keybuk> Riddell: could you work with pitti with a focus on ensuring kubuntu uploads don't have a sponsorship bottleneck
[12:01] <mdz> I think there's work to be done in formalizing the sponsorship process in Ubuntu
[12:01] <mdz> and this is evidence of that
[12:02] <Keybuk> they're more problematic as they rely on both a completely different framework *and* development language than Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Edubuntu which limits the number of people who can do it
[12:02] <mdz> I think we can take this up on ubuntu-devel
[12:02] <Keybuk> agree
[12:02] <imbrandon> and mostly becouse alot of us are in diffrent timezones for the few that do use our framework etc
[12:02] <seb128> that's probably not kubuntu specific though
[12:02] <mdz> Keybuk: would you start the thread sometime this week?
[12:02] <ogra> right, universe in general could need it as well
[12:03] <LaserJock> ogra: ++
[12:03] <Hobbsee> ogra: there are more people around, so the chances of getting something uploaded is higher
[12:03] <LaserJock> but the problem remains that most sponsorship is a crap shoot depending on who is on IRC, etc.
[12:03] <seb128> Hobbsee: you have to find somebody interested by the package you work on, which is not always easy
[12:04] <ogra> Hobbsee, sure, but there are still often uploaders missing
[12:04] <mdz> LaserJock: it shouldn't be, and if that's the current situation, we should address that
[12:04] <imbrandon> mdz yes that is the case unfortunately although alot better than the kubuntu main
[12:05] <Hobbsee> seb128: ogra:  i dont deny it, i just said it was slightly easier
[12:05] <LaserJock> mdz: we do have a motu-reviewers LP team but I'm not sure how successful it has been
[12:05] <imbrandon> lol
[12:05] <mdz> Hobbsee: I would very much appreciate your input on improving the review process for sponsored uploads, though it needs to happen out of band and involve a wider audience
[12:05] <ogra> agreed ... main is harder indeed
[12:05] <mdz> this meeting is running long and we need to move on
[12:06] <mdz> avahi is next on the agenda
[12:06] <imbrandon> ok i have to run everyone , thanks again , see yall in a few hours
[12:06] <Keybuk> that was mjg59's item, and I'm not sure what he wanted to explicitly discuss
[12:06] <mdz> this seems to be revisiting an issue that was decided by easy consensus ages ago
[12:06] <Keybuk> I think that pitti's recent summary to ubuntu-devel is perfect
[12:07] <pitti> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2006-July/019680.html
[12:07] <pitti> ^ my 2 cents
[12:07] <pitti> I think for edgy the plan should be settled and not ripped apart again
[12:07] <Hobbsee> mdz: looks like a kubuntu meeting :P
[12:08] <mdz> I support pitti's proposal as well
[12:08] <pitti> I do see the need to re-discuss and reformulate our 'no open ports' policy
[12:08] <pitti> i. e. the thread convinced me that our current strictness is not really appropriate
[12:08] <Keybuk> pitti: does that need to be discussed today?
[12:08] <mdz> yes, it isn't a simple matter of system calls
[12:09] <pitti> Keybuk: no, not at all
[12:09] <pitti> maybe at the next dev summit, or another TB which isn't that long
[12:09] <mdz> I think that the way forward for avahi is fairly clear; it is a young technology and we would like to experiment with it, but throwing the doors wide would be premature at this point
[12:09] <pitti> mdz++
[12:09] <mdz> we'll make it easy to opt in, and take it from there on a more considered basis
[12:09] <pitti> yesterday I talked to Lennart, and he seems to basically agree, too
[12:10] <mdz> is there anyone present who has more comments or questions to offer regarding avahi?
[12:10] <mezcalero> pitti: hmm, agree to what?
[12:10] <pitti> once it matured a bit and saw some reviews, we should reconsider enabling it by default
[12:10] <pitti> mezcalero: opt-in for edgy, let it mature a bit, enable by default in a later release
[12:10] <mezcalero> the underlying technology of avahi is not exactly "new". it has been around in macosx for quite a while now.
[12:11] <mdz> pitti: indeed, we should consider it in context with the other systems we enable by default, not treat it differently because "that's the way it works"
[12:11] <pitti> right, but the package is still quite new
[12:11] <mezcalero> pitti: you're misquoting me there
[12:11] <pitti> mezcalero: sorry if I did


[09:06] <sweemeng_> \|,,l
[09:25] <ApOgEE> salam
[09:45] <sweemeng_> bored
[09:49] <BuffaloSoldier> salam ApOgEE
[09:49] <BuffaloSoldier> what's up sweemeng_ ?
[09:50] <sweemeng_> backed up personal stuff
[09:50] <BuffaloSoldier> weekly backup?
[09:50] <sweemeng_> nope
[09:50] <sweemeng_> packing up before i leave the company
[09:50] <sweemeng_> which is 2 month away ><
[09:51] <sweemeng_> http://www.html5rocks.com/
[09:51] <sweemeng_> and playing with that at the same time
[09:54] <sweemeng_> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/webaudio/intro/
[09:54] <sweemeng_> this is interesting
[09:54] <sweemeng_> except the example is a bit weird
[10:00] <Buffalo_Soldier> cool link... thanks sweemeng_


[08:17] <JamesTait> Good morning all, happy Friday the 13th and happy Programmers' Day! :-D
[12:24] <AlanBell> hi, I am having problems with ubuntuone-syncd using excessive CPU (like 98.6%)
[12:25] <AlanBell> I don't use it for syncing stuff, but I have 250MB of stuff in the folder, already synced to the cloud
[12:25] <AlanBell> I am running 13.10 saucy (yes, I know, I am testing it)
[12:26] <AlanBell> how can I find out what that process is actually trying to achieve?
[12:27] <AlanBell> ah, it appears to have stopped now, and tells me all files are synced, maybe it was recalculating a hash of everything
[13:47] <dobey> AlanBell: ~/.cache/ubuntuone/log/syncdaemon.log should give more information about what exactly is going on. it was probably rehashing or something similar, indeed.
[15:03] <AlanBell> thanks dobey
[20:33] <Eimann> hi, are there any known performance issues with ubuntuone filehosting? I only get 15-35KB/sec from several ISPs, doesn't matter if in UK, DE or US
[20:38] <Eimann> 2013-09-13 22:37:49 (19.4 KB/s) - `1Q5Yi3eVAzS2xn3Ex7Ix3n' saved [7063106/7063106] - sigh. what a bad performance
[21:13] <Eimann> looks like only <IP_ADDRESS> is slow, if I use <IP_ADDRESS> manually via /etc/hosts I get 500-800KB/sec, still slow but better
[21:15] <ralsina> Eimann: thanks for looking into this, sorry about responding so late, but I will pass it on!
[21:15] <Eimann> thanks


[17:44] <leoquant> AlanBell, is it possible to use meetingology in our channel #ubuntu-nl-mwanzo?
[20:26] <AlanBell> meetingology join #ubuntu-nl-mwanzo


[09:16] <zero_shane> does anyone here have experience with the "vmbuilder" image installer ?   I'm using it successfully for building images from scratch - but have a question about controlling the
[09:16] <zero_shane> "type" of build I get
[09:17] <zero_shane> currently - doing trusty builds - but it appears I get a basic "full server" instance - I'd like a super trimmed down "mini" instance
[09:17] <zero_shane> I've used the ISO "mini" 14.04 image with Packer to build small(er) footprint Ubuntu builds - but not sure how to go about getting the same results with vmbuilder
[09:17] <zero_shane> is there some way basically specify "mini" (or an equivalent, of course) ?????
[18:55] <cyphermox> xnox: I'd like to take this opportunity to harass you again about reviewing my ubiquity code branch :)
[18:58] <xnox> cyphermox, you shall =)
[18:59]  * xnox is feeling harassed
[19:00]  * cyphermox pokes at xnox some more
[19:00] <xnox> i actually want to review it, rather than blindly merging it.
[19:00] <cyphermox> of course, that's the point
[19:00] <cyphermox> I can blindly merge things myself
[19:00] <xnox> cause i bet there is devil in the details, that you are so cautious to just do it.
[19:01] <cyphermox> it's not *that* bad
[19:01] <cyphermox> but it's as evil in some parts as user-setup, for instance
[19:07] <xnox> i was going to quickly finish qtbase, and do ubiquity review. i only now have finished qtbase and it's an hour past my end of week.
[19:07] <xnox> i will do it on monday morning, in time for your monday morning.
[19:26] <cyphermox> xnox: ack
[19:26] <cyphermox> I'm well busy enough with base-installer now
[19:26] <cyphermox> and to decipher in there what we really do still need and what's useless crap
[19:41] <cyphermox> xnox: mind if I take dmraid?


[04:29] <micahg> do .desktop files have to be utf8?
[04:32] <JanC> micahg: http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/latest/ar01s02.html says they have to be  ☺
[04:32] <micahg> JanC: k, if I can't get an answer, I'll drop the translation
[04:34] <JanC> translation?
[04:34] <micahg> yeah for the name
[04:35] <JanC> translations should use UTF-8 too, I suppsoe, which shouldn't be a problem?
[04:35] <micahg> JanC: right, I think I just got a bad char, but I tried copying twice
[08:01]  * TheMuso -> EOD. Happy freeze day all. :)
[08:05] <pitti> Good morning
[08:54] <RAOF> Hello everyone!
[08:54] <dpm> morning RAOF
[08:55] <dpm> (or rather evening to you :)
[08:56] <RAOF> No, morning.  I'm at XDS, in Toulouse.
[08:57] <dpm> ok, :)
[08:58] <RAOF> Am I to understand that mesa 7.9 broke the world?
[09:16] <bryceh> where world == unity
[10:37] <ronoc> bl8: banshee works, libindicator bug fixed last night
[10:37] <ronoc> libindicate rather
[10:38] <vish>  ronoc: hi, i dint understand your comment here> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/624610/comments/8 .. you are working[or hoping] on fixing it for Natty? and this menu-close is a temporary workaround?
[10:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 624610 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Media Buttons should trigger action only on button release (affects: 3) (dups: 1) (heat: 22)" [Low,Triaged]
[10:41] <ronoc> vish, I would like to revisit the button implementation at some point, I think the edge detection could be improved, 0.4.8 should have this fixed. For now though i think this bug has been fixed. Any other quirks to do with the buttons should be filed as new bugs.
[10:41] <ronoc> vish, thx for all the help on the bug front :)
[10:41] <vish> ronoc: yea.. np.. :)
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> am i the only person on the desktop team here at the moment?
[11:03] <mvo> chrisccoulson: woah, final freeze day and you guys are all on vacation?
[11:03] <mvo> chrisccoulson: amazing ;)
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> mvo - not me ;)
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> i really should take some vacation soon
[11:03] <mvo> last man standing
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> who will do firefox security updates if i go away on vacation though? ;)
[11:04]  * mvo looks around for a candidate
[11:04] <mvo> ubot2!
[11:04]  * mvo is not sure that would work
[11:05] <mvo> chrisccoulson: but seriously, is it still so crazy with them :/ ?
[11:05] <chrisccoulson> mvo - yeah, we've had 2 security releases for all products in the last week :(
[11:05] <mvo> mehhhh
[11:14] <vish> mvo / chrisccoulson: got a min for an upload to main?  :)
[11:14] <vish>  could someone upload this for maverick? lp:human-theme fixes a small bug Bug; #553393 ..
[11:14] <chrisccoulson> vish - it depends if i can upload it ;)
[11:14] <vish> chrisccoulson: hmm..! desktop might have had access to human theme :)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it's in the desktop package set
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> i just checked
[11:15] <vish> apparently someone still uses human theme ;p  .. they came to -artwork asking for a fix ;)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> it doesn't require UIF exception does it? :)
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> i just rejected one sponsoring request because it changes a string ;)
[11:15] <vish> nope.. just fixes the bug of invisible checkmarks ..
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> ok, that sounds fine
[11:16] <vish> thanks.. :)
[11:17] <chrisccoulson> i will do that in a few minutes, just need to grab more coffee
[11:18] <vish> hmm.. who was it who broke their coffee-maker! ;)
[11:19] <vish> oh wait that was in gnome! jimmac! ;p
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> yeah, not me ;)
[11:19] <vish> for some reason i thought it was pitt-i  :)
[11:19] <chrisccoulson> i would die if i broke my coffee maker
[11:34] <chrisccoulson> vish - ok, uploaded now
[11:34] <vish> chrisccoulson: thanks..
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> wtf is comment #3 in bug 638549 about?
[12:04] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 638549 in firefox-3.0 (Ubuntu) "Sound package not found another prosess in use - Package audio does not exis (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/638549
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> "My blue tooth has very bad-breath"
[12:04] <chrisccoulson> lol
[12:50] <Laney> Is it intentional that f-spot got demoted?
[12:51] <Laney> (e.g.) pidgin still lives on in main
[13:27] <ronoc> shuerhaaken, ping
[13:30] <shuerhaaken> pong
[13:30] <shuerhaaken> hello conor
[13:31] <ronoc> shuerhaaken, hey
[13:31] <ronoc> shuerhaaken, liking xnoise alot
[13:31] <shuerhaaken> thanks!
[13:32] <shuerhaaken> can you compile now?
[13:32] <ronoc> shuerhaaken, just quickly tried to compile before lunch but got that error I sent
[13:32] <ronoc> granted I didn't spend much time trying to figure out why
[13:32] <ronoc> shuerhaaken, i need 0.1.11 to test right ?
[13:33] <shuerhaaken> better tip
[13:33] <shuerhaaken> i have an old computer now with maverick for testing
[13:34] <ronoc> will I cloned tip at 12 noon gmt, and get that error
[13:34] <ronoc> get/got
[13:34] <shuerhaaken> there is something wrong with my mpris v2
[13:34] <shuerhaaken> i compared to rhythmbox' implementation
[13:35] <shuerhaaken> but I have difficulties to get this done via dbus-glib-1
[13:36] <shuerhaaken> d-feet shows me more than one Object path in org.mpris.Mediaplayer2.xnoise
[13:37] <shuerhaaken> there is org/mpris/Mediaplayer2 and org/mpris/Mediaplayer2/Player
[13:37] <shuerhaaken> for rhythmbow the ../Player is available under org/mpris/Mediaplayer2
[14:20] <ronoc> bl8: hey
[16:18] <mvo> jcastro: should I act about the discussion on featured applications? i.e. should software-center get a update for some new/removed ones?
[16:25] <ronoc> TheMuso, crimsun_ late in the day pulse bug coming from netbook editions -> #639793
[16:25] <ronoc> crashing the sound-service :/
[16:25] <ronoc> there was a new pulse went in in the last few days ?
[16:28] <jcastro> mvo: participation doesn't seem as great as last time
[16:29] <jcastro> kenvandine: what do you think?
[16:29] <jcastro> calibre and pdfmod seem like nobrainers to me. (But, I did add them, heh)
[16:29] <kenvandine> jcastro, dunno...
[16:30] <jcastro> mvo: we have like what, 45 minutes left?
[16:31] <jcastro> mvo: just add those three on the page, and if someone complains then they should have participated. *shrug*
[16:31] <mvo> jcastro: we can still try to get a exception
[16:31] <mvo> jcastro: its just data, no risk of regression
[16:31] <jcastro> but it's not that important if everyone trying to get real fixes in
[16:31] <mvo> jcastro: I just wanted to make sure I was not blocking something
[16:32] <mvo> jcastro: well, yes and no, trivial for the release-manager to review and iimportant for our users to see new items (to see that we garden the list)
[16:33] <jcastro> well, all we have are those three new ones, so might as well do it
[16:33] <jcastro> and then at UDS figure out how to make it work better for next time
[16:34] <mvo> jcastro: ok, thanks
[16:34] <mvo> jcastro: I will prepare a update with those, I need to merge another fix in anyway
[16:35] <mvo> jcastro: what about moovida, someone raised concerns about that in the ML iirc?
[17:23] <pedro_> kenvandine, may you please look at bug 597381 later?
[17:23] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 597381 in telepathy-butterfly (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "telepathy-butterfly crashed with UnicodeDecodeError in _signal_text_received() (affects: 70) (dups: 1) (heat: 316)" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597381
[17:23] <pedro_> kenvandine, looks like it's fixed in butterfly and not in the papyon 0.5.1
[17:23] <pedro_> that'd be nice to have fixed
[17:27] <kenvandine> pedro_, i'll look in a bit
[17:27] <pedro_> thank you kenvandine
[17:27] <kenvandine> np
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> excellent, the status bar in firefox 4.0 has gone away now \o/
[17:38] <nigelb> oh, nice
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> it disappeared in the latest nightly
[17:57]  * dobey wonders if there's an archive rebuild going on right now
[18:07] <vish> chrisccoulson: but the statusbar could be disabled earlier too.. only then you wont get statuses ;)
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> vish - you still get statuses now
[18:08] <vish> yeah.. the new one is kinda nice
[18:08] <vish> but sometimes distracting .. its too pretty!!!
[18:08] <chrisccoulson> i'm looking forward to getting this in to natty
[18:23] <tremolux> heyyy devildante!
[18:23] <tremolux> devildante: how's it going
[18:23] <tremolux> ?
[18:23] <devildante> hey tremolux
[18:23] <devildante> tremolux, all is fine :)
[18:23] <tremolux> devildante: thx for your fixes, they got in before freeze  \o/
[18:23] <tremolux> well, some did, the fixes with string changes have to wait
[18:24] <devildante> no problem :)
[18:24] <tremolux> and it turns out the history fix broke the unit test so we have to debug that
[18:24] <tremolux> but, the history fix did work in the UI, so..
[18:25] <tremolux> devildante: but it was great to have them for freeze-time
[18:26] <asac> hmm. where can i set the AutoLogin user etc. in gconf for gdm?
[18:26] <asac> afaik gdm reads gconf, but how do i add that in postinst ;)
[18:26] <devildante> tremolux, thanks :)
[18:27] <tremolux> devildante: the thanks go to you!
[18:27] <tremolux> devildante: it feels like a really nice release
[18:27] <tremolux> devildante: give it a shot when you can
[18:27] <devildante> tremolux, no, they go to you for merging :p
[18:28] <tremolux> devildante: haha!
[18:28] <devildante> tremolux, give a shot for what?
[18:28] <tremolux> devildante: I just mean, play around with software-center when you get the update (or just in trunk)
[18:28] <devildante> ah
[18:28] <devildante> okay :)
[18:28] <tremolux> devildante: stuff is working really well
[18:29]  * tremolux knocks on wood  ;)
[18:29] <devildante> tremolux, yes, the 10.10 release is gonna live to its perfect expectations :)
[18:29] <tremolux> devildante: I hope so
[18:29] <devildante> tremolux, I also find the default wallpaper is really cool
[18:29] <devildante> ditto for the updated themes
[18:30] <tremolux> devildante: yes!  totally agree
[18:30] <tremolux> devildante: I am really loving 10.10
[18:31] <devildante> tremolux, my only complaint is that jockey-gtk is slow at researching drivers, but that's an old bug :p
[18:31] <devildante> I'll give a shot at accelerating it for 11.04
[18:31] <tremolux> devildante: nice  :)
[18:31] <devildante> ;)
[19:46] <kenvandine> bigon, any plans to update telepathy-butterfly ?
[21:06] <DrGrov> I am having the following problem. "Active VT tracking can fail at startup", https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/544139?comments=all
[21:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 544139 in consolekit (Ubuntu Maverick) (and 3 other projects) "Active VT tracking can fail at startup (affects: 47) (dups: 6) (heat: 226)" [High,Triaged]
[21:07] <DrGrov> Perhaps someone got a good workaround for this issue since it is really difficult to do my work? Greatly appreciated any type of help to get rid of the problem somehow.
[21:12] <DrGrov> Nobody has that same issue as I have?
[21:12] <DrGrov> Can that be true? :)
[21:13] <cjohnston> kenvandine: 22 days since last facebook update :-(
[21:13] <kenvandine> sigh...
[21:13] <kenvandine> there has to be a way to fix that...
[21:14] <DrGrov> How do I downgrade to the version 173 Nvidia drivers?
[21:14] <cjohnston> I've actually been looking at your post for 22 days
[21:14] <kenvandine> cjohnston, it really should work at least intermittenly
[21:14] <DrGrov> I hope that I can try to downgrade the nVidia drivers and hopefully that will help
[21:14] <kenvandine> like in the morning it should work better :)
[21:14] <cjohnston> ya
[21:26] <cjohnston> sounds like you might spend uds looking at my laptop again
[21:27] <cjohnston> :-P
[21:38] <kenvandine> hehe
[21:40] <vish> hmm.. twitter doesnt update here.. but i'm using the maverick version on lucid ;p
[21:40] <vish> it worked for a while and then has stopped since 2weeks
[21:56] <cjohnston> vish: I also have that problem
[21:57] <vish> cjohnston: its all kenvandine's fault ;p
[21:57] <cjohnston> lol
[21:58] <cjohnston> poor kenvandine
[21:58] <vish> why'd he have to make gwibber so awesome that we _want_ to use it !
[21:58] <vish> its his fault ;)
[22:17] <chrisccoulson> i'm sure launchpad has sent me thousands of mails over the last couple of days
[22:19] <nigelb> chrisccoulson: I'd pay to see the look on seb's and didrocks' face when they get back
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i've probably deleted 3000 mails today
[22:20] <nigelb> chrisccoulson: pedro got 13000
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> ouch
[22:20] <chrisccoulson> not cool
[22:20] <nigelb> so, we're never going to match that.
[22:48]  * cjohnston thinks he just read that if he buys kenvandine a beer kenvandine will teach him how to program
[23:06] <devildante> dang, tremolux is not here :(
[23:06] <devildante> but mvo is here :)
[23:06] <devildante> mvo: ping
[23:07] <tremolux> devildante: who says I'm not here  ;)
[23:07] <tremolux> devildante: what's up?
[23:09] <devildante> my eyes are failing me :p
[23:10] <devildante> tremolux, bug 634324 is not fixed
[23:10] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 634324 in software-center (Ubuntu) "software-center python-launchpadlib dependency (affects: 1) (heat: 8)" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634324
[23:10] <devildante> python-launchpadlib needs to be in depends, not in suggests
[23:10] <tremolux> devildante: yep, mvo felt it should be in suggests
[23:11] <tremolux> devildante: reason is that it's not a feature that anybody will use by default, it has to be enabled with a switch at startup
[23:12] <devildante> tremolux, problem is the user reports that software-center crashes with normal options when python-launchpadlib is not present
[23:14] <tremolux> devildante: ah, ok
[23:15] <devildante> tremolux, so, is it a dependency problem, or can it be fixed with some code?
[23:15]  * devildante wonders why he is asking this, we're in FinalFreeze :p
[23:16] <tremolux> devildante: heh
[23:17] <devildante> tremolux, is there a list of bugs for USC that could get an exception for FinalFreeze?
[23:17] <tremolux> devildante: right now, there is no known bug like that, but that's at this moment
[23:17] <devildante> okay :)