[00:00] <calimer> that doesn't sound good
[00:00] <Baby> nah, I've packaged much more difficult games :)
[00:01] <calimer> so with what is on your site, what else needs to be done?
[00:02] <LaserJock> no, I got it
[00:02] <LaserJock> I just edited a game!! ;-)
[00:02] <calimer> :D
[00:02] <calimer> you should see the kids on it, they go nuts
[00:02] <Baby> :))))))))
[00:03] <calimer> if you want I have some pictures of stuff made by kids
[00:03] <Baby> we have to upload enet before, btw
[00:04] <calimer> I'll try to update the codebase and such this weekend
[00:04] <Baby> lets fix and upload enet
[00:05] <calimer> so enet is the last piece of the puzzle?
[00:05] <calimer> and thanks so much both of you :D
[00:05] <Baby> enet 1.2 is the stable
[00:05] <Baby> thanks to you :)
[00:06] <calimer> the idea that this could happen wants to make me jump around
[00:06] <Baby> I'm trying to find out if goneri finally packaged enet
[00:06] <calimer> imagine how many more kids would have access, it is crazzyy
[00:07] <calimer> I gotta relax
[00:07] <Baby> :)))
[00:08] <calimer> :D
[00:09] <LaserJock> calimer: I sent you an email
[00:09] <calimer> okay
[00:10] <LaserJock> but that's sort of all I'm going to be able to work on it
[00:10] <calimer> did you see Baby's link too?
[00:10] <calimer> http://users.alioth.debian.org/~miriam/sandbox/
[00:10] <LaserJock> well, there you go, forget my email then ;-)
[00:11] <Baby> I'll try to update it
[00:11] <Baby> I'm trying to dinf out if enet 1.2 is in debian or not
[00:11] <calimer> but is it about set then LaserJock besides the enet stuff?
[00:11] <Baby> but my connection si crap today
[00:11] <calimer> I can try to search too
[00:12] <LaserJock> calimer: I dont' know, I'd have to look at Baby's package
[00:12] <calimer> http://patch-tracking.debian.net/patch/debianonly/view/enet/1.2-1
[00:12] <LaserJock> my guess is whatever Baby says is right ;-)
[00:12] <calimer> that what you are looking for baby?
[00:12] <calimer> maybe this more specifically
[00:12] <calimer> http://patch-tracking.debian.net/package/enet/1.2-1
[00:12] <Baby> packages.debian.org
[00:13] <Baby> I need it ti be in proper debian :)
[00:15] <calimer> okay
[00:16] <Baby> I'm still trying to open that web page :(
[00:16] <Baby> finally!!!
[00:16] <Baby> it's in experimental
[00:17] <calimer> wow guess it is going slow
[00:17] <Baby> http://packages.debian.org/experimental/libenet-dev
[00:17] <calimer> hopefully that isn't too bad
[00:17] <LaserJock> calimer: if Baby (and whoever else) can get sandboxlite into Debian by Valentines Day we can get it into Jaunty
[00:17] <calimer> awesome
[00:17] <calimer> we might not even really need enet
[00:17] <Baby> there might be a problem for getting it into sid
[00:17] <calimer> that is for the networking
[00:18] <Baby> getting it into experimental could be enough?
[00:18] <calimer> if people want to coop edit and such they will need enet
[00:18] <calimer> which is quite cool, especially for a teacher with students
[00:18] <calimer> but then they could just dl 2.3 I guess
[00:19] <Baby> i seem to remember that enet 1.1 wasn't enough
[00:19] <LaserJock> Baby: yeah, I think experimental would be enough for us to get it into Ubuntu
[00:19] <Baby> but 1,2 won't get into sid until Lenny release
[00:19] <Baby> cool :)
[00:22] <Baby> is there a difference between the code in lite and sandbox?
[00:22] <Baby> not in the data, in the code
[00:24] <calimer> yes
[00:24] <Baby> hmm
[00:24] <calimer> lite is a much older codebase
[00:24] <Baby> pity
[00:24] <calimer> but I am going to try to update the lite codebase, and data this weekend, or maybe even tonight
[00:24] <Baby> cool
[00:24] <Baby> my plan would be
[00:25] <Baby> to have a single sandbox-bin package, and then two data packages, sandbox-lite and sandbox-data
[00:26] <calimer> okay
[00:26] <calimer> it should hopefully be a quick thing
[00:26] <Baby> did I already send you my patches, btw?
[00:26] <calimer> just what you had on your webpage I think
[00:28] <Baby> I'll have to add the descriptions, and all that stuff
[00:29] <Baby> the package still builds :)
[00:30] <calimer> WOOo
[00:30] <calimer> so how much work is left really?
[00:30] <calimer> I'm trying to understand it all
[00:30] <calimer> I can probably get the code stuff done tonight
[00:30] <LaserJock> Baby: would sandbox-data be in non-free?
[00:30] <calimer> and then perhaps the new textures, if they end up working out okay, over the weekend
[00:31] <Baby> yup LaserJock
[00:31] <calimer> the lite version of the data should be okay in free though right?
[00:31] <Baby> but at least sandbox-lite would be in main
[00:31] <calimer> :D
[00:31] <Baby> and sandbox itself too
[00:31] <LaserJock> Baby: would you separate the source package?
[00:31] <Baby> otherwise it would have to go into contrib
[00:31] <Baby> yup
[00:31] <LaserJock> ok
[00:31] <LaserJock> I was just trying to think of how it would work in Ubuntu
[00:32] <Baby> it cannot contain non free stuff in main
[00:32] <Baby> not even the source
[00:32] <LaserJock> if they're separate source packages we can easily drop -data in Multiverse and the rest in Universe
[00:32] <LaserJock> Baby: right ok that's consistent with how we do it, good
[00:33] <Baby> I plan to generate -bin and -lite from main, and have -data in a different package in non-free
[00:33] <LaserJock> perfect
[00:33] <Baby> and then either depend o -lite | -data   or make -lite and -data provide some common name
[00:35] <Baby> oki, package works
[00:35] <LaserJock> you could do -lite and -data-nonfree and have them both provide -data
[00:35] <Baby> now all the polish
[00:35] <Baby> yup, something like that
[00:35] <Baby> or -full
[00:35] <Baby> -lite and -full
[00:35] <LaserJock> yeah, that sounds good
[00:36] <calimer> so it sounds like it has a real chance to make it in
[00:37] <Baby> I'll upload my patches somewhere
[00:38] <calimer> we can put all that stuff on my site if you want
[00:39] <calimer> whatever we need hosted I can put on the site
[00:39] <Baby> http://users.alioth.debian.org/~miriam/sandbox/patches/
[00:39] <calimer> should I put the other files you have on your apache on there too?
[00:39] <Baby> have a look at them if you want in case that something can be included in your side :)
[00:40] <Baby> I'll upload a newer version in a moment
[00:41] <Baby> I want to update the descriptions
[00:41] <calimer> I wish I had a way to give you upload access to a folder
[00:42] <calimer> but I can only do it so it gives access to all my sites
[00:42] <calimer> which are you updating?
[00:43] <calimer> and want all sandbox stuff from the apache on the site?
[00:44] <calimer> might as well
[00:45] <Baby> just one sec
[00:46] <Baby> LaserJock: if I upload enet to my PPA and later sandbox depending on it, will it get enet from there?
[00:46] <LaserJock> yep
[00:50] <Baby> great
[00:51] <Baby> I'll upload it to PPA then XD
[00:51] <Baby> now that I've learnt ;)
[00:52] <LaserJock> Baby: you can even make one PPA dependent on another
[00:53] <Baby> that goes a bit beyond my knowledge right now ;)
[00:53] <LaserJock> although that makes it more complicated for users
[00:53] <Baby> I use jaunty as distro in changelog?
[00:55] <LaserJock> you can do any supported Ubuntu release
[00:55] <Baby> but the idea is including it in jaunty, isn't it?
[00:55] <LaserJock> yes
[00:56] <LaserJock> but it's harder to get testing for it
[00:56] <Baby> cool, then jaunty will be :)
[00:56] <calimer> I'm so glad you guys know what you are doing
[00:56] <Baby> :)
[00:56] <LaserJock> if you want to get packages for Ubuntu users to use you'd want to do intrepid
[00:56] <LaserJock> but for your own testing Jaunty will be good
[00:57] <LaserJock> calimer: that's why we get paid the big bucks ;-)
[00:57] <Baby> can I upload it to both in PPA?
[00:57] <calimer> hopefully it is more than I get paid :D
[00:58] <LaserJock> Baby: you need to use different versions
[00:58] <Baby> that can be done :)
[00:58] <LaserJock> Baby: I *think* you can upload to one and the copy in the UI
[00:58] <Baby> I'll add a ~intrepid1 to the one in intrepid
[00:58] <LaserJock> but I tend to just do it the old fashioned way
[00:59] <LaserJock> we would normally do -0~intrepid0~ppa1 perhaps
[00:59] <LaserJock> it's not a big deal
[01:00] <Baby> how long :)
[01:00] <LaserJock> I think they like people to use ~ppaX to signify it's from a ppa
[01:00] <LaserJock> you have no idea
[01:00] <Baby> I'm doing -0miry1 :)
[01:00] <LaserJock> we can usually double or triple the length of Debian versions
[01:00] <LaserJock> part of being a derivative
[01:01] <Baby> in maemo they do something like that
[01:01] <Baby> and one of the packages broke the synaptic-like program they use for a friend of mine
[01:02] <Baby> too long version name, so GUI went mad :P
[01:03] <LaserJock> Baby: this is a version of Flash we had: <IP_ADDRESS>+<IP_ADDRESS>5ubuntu1~hardy1+really<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu2
[01:04] <Baby> wowwwwwww
[01:04] <LaserJock> and I even know what that means ;-)
[01:04] <Baby> <IP_ADDRESS>+<IP_ADDRESS>5ubuntu1~hardy1+really<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu2+reallyreally+iswearit1+true
[01:04] <Baby> XD
[01:05] <LaserJock> heh
[01:05] <calimer> btw I really like this article
[01:05] <calimer> http://www.gameculture.com/node/597
[01:05] <LaserJock> Baby: here's a PPA version 4:4.1.96-0ubuntu1~intrepid1~ppa2
[01:06] <LaserJock> Baby: so they do -0ubuntu1~intrepid1~ppaX
[01:06] <Baby> quite crazy, isn't it?
[01:07] <LaserJock> well, it ensures that any official release will override it
[01:07] <LaserJock> whether it be the main archive or -updates, -security, -backports
[01:07] <Baby> calimer:  :)
[01:07] <calimer> :D
[01:07] <calimer> I think I will brb and work on updating this codebase
[01:08] <Baby> I've used this description:
[01:08] <Baby> Description: cooperative 3D game design tool for kids - lite game data
[01:08] <Baby>  Platinum Arts Sandbox is a game design tool based on the Cube 2 engine
[01:08] <Baby>  that allows users to quickly and easily create and edit their own worlds
[01:08] <Baby>  while playing the game, even cooperatively.
[01:08] <Baby> LaserJock: yup, I know the rationale behaind it :)
[01:10] <calimer> I have been using 3D game maker more recently
[01:10] <calimer> as in like the last few days
[01:10] <calimer> whatever gets it the most hits
[01:11] <Baby> :)
[01:15] <calimer> what do you think sounds better, game maker or game design tool?
[01:16] <calimer> and I'm working on updating this source right now :D
[01:16] <Baby> hmm
[01:16] <Baby> probably game maker sounds better
[01:17] <calimer> cooperative 3D Game Design Tool for kids and adults
[01:17] <Baby> game design tool sounds too abstract, like doing it on paper but never implementing it :)
[01:17] <calimer> btw I have an updated thing I lik emore
[01:17] <calimer> let me get it
[01:17] <Baby> design as in different than implementation
[01:17] <Baby> :)
[01:18] <calimer> Platinum Arts Sandbox is an open source easy to use standalone 3D Game Maker and 3D Game Design program currently being used in many schools throughout the world that allows kids and adults to create their own video games, worlds, levels, adventures and quests, even cooperatively! The goal is to make it accessible to kids but also powerful enough for full game projects. With a simple click and roll of a mouse wheel users can modif
[01:18] <calimer> y the world however they want. In the words of Margaret, a nine year old Sandbox whiz I babysit for, “Press Edit and go fulfill your dreams!”. Now features new game modes such as sidescroller, machinima, kartmode, RPG, and more!
[01:18] <Baby> wow, you write even longer sentences than I!
[01:18] <Baby> :)
[01:18] <calimer> that is my brief version :D
[01:18] <Baby> XD
[01:20] <Baby> Platinum Arts Sandbox is an open source tool to make 3D games in an easy way :)
[01:21] <Baby> s/to make/to design and make/
[01:21] <calimer> whatever gets em coming :D
[01:22] <Baby> ;)
[01:25] <calimer> almost ready to test this code update
[01:26] <Baby> :)
[01:26] <Baby> my web doesn't work anymore
[01:26] <calimer> D:
[01:26] <Baby> maybe something with my ISP or the router
[01:26] <calimer> what is going on with it?
[01:26] <Baby> simply times out
[01:27] <Baby> every page
[01:27] <calimer> sometimes for me just turning off the power of my router and then on again helps
[01:27] <Baby> yup, I'll do that, but I'll go to sleep too then
[01:27] <Baby> can you tell me if in https://launchpad.net/~miry/+archiventhe enet package built properly?
[01:28] <Baby> it should have a green tick
[01:28] <Baby> or a moving circle if it's still compiling
[01:28] <calimer> it says error not found
[01:28] <Baby> oh
[01:28] <calimer> is the end of that link right?
[01:28] <Baby> sorre
[01:29] <Baby> https://launchpad.net/~miry/+archive
[01:29] <calimer> hmm I forgot I need to use 2.3 code
[01:29] <calimer> not what is in the svn
[01:30] <Baby> :)
[01:30] <Baby> as soon as enet is compilet I'll upload sandbox and go to sleep
[01:32] <calimer> :D
[01:33] <calimer> so when you wake up tomorrow I should have the source updated
[01:33] <calimer> I'll send you an e-mail with the new package
[01:33] <Baby> cool :)
[01:34] <calimer> I think I got everything, now gotta compile and test
[01:35] <calimer> there is only one thing I am hmm about
[01:35] <calimer> there is a new sidescroller mode where you can jump on an enemies head and make it fall over and disappear
[01:35] <calimer> though lite won't have the models to show the enemies or the player anyway
[01:36] <calimer> should I just keep it in anyway?
[01:36] <calimer> since it is part of the "non debian free" version
[13:48] <nothingman> hi, all
[13:54] <nothingman> updating my image so I can log in from my school's laptops
[13:54] <nothingman> wish me luck!
[14:10] <nothingman> OK, so suddenly a package has replaced my dhcpd.conf, so I found and replaced it with a backup that looks exactly like my original, and dhcp3-server still won't start
[14:10] <nothingman> but I should have a better-working image now! :-P
[14:34] <nothingman> is there a way to make a generic user -- one that's the same on any terminal, has few enough priv's, and can run firefox without it complaining the second time it's run?
[14:36] <nubae> hmm, I thought that was already fixed
[14:37] <nubae> what release u running?
[14:54] <nothingman> Edubuntu Hardy Heron, 8.04
[14:55] <nothingman> actually, this is edubuntu installed on top of ubuntu
[14:55] <nothingman> I mean, it was a desktop machine and then I wanted to use it as my server at my school
[14:56] <nothingman> and using your fatclient script gives a GPG error for medibuntu
[14:58] <nothingman> not sure why
[14:59] <nothingman> but it seems to depend on packages on that server
[14:59] <nothingman> or maybe I just have a list of crap servers in my sources.list
[15:01] <nubae> yeah because there is no gpg key add command in the script... u need to force it to use unsigned packages
[15:01] <nothingman> ah
[15:02] <nothingman> just with -f or --force?
[15:02] <nothingman> got it
[15:02] <nothingman> --allow-unauthenticated
[15:02] <nubae> thats the one
[15:03] <nubae> --accept-unsigned-packages
[15:03] <nubae> maybe allow-authenticated is the same
[15:13] <nothingman> is that from the ltsp-build-client?
[15:20] <nothingman> I think I got it
[15:20] <nothingman> I edited your script
[15:24] <nubae> yeah
[15:32] <mib_dp49tl> I am trying to install edubuntu on a netbook with the edubuntu iso file mounted.  How do I launch the add-on?
[15:34] <mib_dp49tl> hello? anyone available?
[15:35] <sbalneav> mib_dp49tl: Not sure.
[15:36] <mib_dp49tl> ok, thanks!
[15:39] <sbalneav> I always just burn the cd and insert mrt
[15:39] <sbalneav> argh internet slowing down.
[15:45] <mib_dp49tl> yeah, me too.  I just don't have a cd on this little netbook.
[15:45] <nubae> add-on cd should just autostart
[15:46] <nubae> u can put it on a usb stick, or mount the iso
[15:46] <nubae> if you've just downloaded it
[15:46] <mib_dp49tl> I have copied the contents to a usb drive, but it will not autostart.
[15:47] <mib_dp49tl> I have launched the cdromupgrade script, but it only does the ubuntu upgrade
[15:48] <nubae> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/mount-and-unmout-iso-images-without-burning-them.html
[15:49] <mib_dp49tl> I have mounted the iso using mount command, but it won't autostart the edubuntu install.  I am downloading the iso again, just in case I have a corrupt copy.
[15:53] <nubae> strange, and u clicked on the mounted disk?
[15:56] <mib_dp49tl> I am new to linux... but here is how I mounted it:  mount edubuntu.iso /cdrom -t iso9660 -o loop
[15:56] <nubae> and u clicked on cdrom to see the contents and launch the autorun?
[15:56] <nubae> u probably shouldn't mount it at /cdrom
[15:57] <mib_dp49tl> ok, I'll try to mount it at another point.
[16:01] <mib_dp49tl> I mounted it at /iso.  I am able to see the contents of the folder, but it does not autorun.  I think that I may just get out my ide-usb adapter and hook up a cdrom drive.
[16:05] <LaserJock> highvoltage: yeah, I've been dugg all right. Right now #2 in linux/unix
[16:05] <LaserJock> if I would have known people were going to read it that much I would have been more careful about how I wrote it :(
[16:05] <highvoltage> LaserJock: awesome. glad to see that your site is handling it nicely too.
[16:06] <highvoltage> LaserJock: if you did, it probably wouldn't have gotten dugg
[16:06] <nubae> :-)
[16:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage: that's why I'm on wordpress.com
[16:06] <highvoltage> LaserJock: aaah
[16:06] <LaserJock> highvoltage: I got dugg once before, ~30k hits in one day
[16:07] <highvoltage> I changed hosting to a dedicated server when I got dugg, and then I never got dugg since :)
[16:07] <LaserJock> the interesting thing about digg is it gives you hits for a long time afterword
[16:07] <highvoltage> yeah
[16:08] <LaserJock> I still get quite a few from the original one like 1.5 years ago
[16:08] <LaserJock> I wish I was more careful though, after reading the digg comments
[16:08] <highvoltage> you can't, it's impossible
[16:08] <highvoltage> there's always someone who will show you something that you could've done better
[16:08] <LaserJock> well, another post I think might be in order
[16:08] <highvoltage> a good blog entry now is better than a better one tomorrow
[16:09] <LaserJock> because I want to talk about new devices and getting software to kids *before* school
[16:09] <LaserJock> a lot of people say "school doesn't matter they have Windows at home"
[16:09] <LaserJock> but I think we're also going to get those people via netbooks and newer devices like the classmate
[16:10] <nubae> LaserJock: have u looked at salasaga?
[16:11] <LaserJock> no, I haven't
[16:11] <nubae> there were some questions about a tool to create learning objects
[16:11] <nubae> rather than using edu apps
[16:12] <nubae> http://www.salasaga.org/ seems to be the answer
[16:12] <highvoltage> nubae: like plasmoids?
[16:12] <LaserJock> I looked at it briefly when you mentioned it before but I have tried it or anything
[16:12] <nubae> nto sure what plasmoids is/are
[16:14] <LaserJock> it's kinda hard to explain
[16:14] <LaserJock> but basically KDE widgets
[16:15] <nubae> ah right, yeah now I know what u mean
[16:15] <LaserJock> there's some really big potential there i think for educators
[16:15] <nubae> these are .swf files that are like edu tutorials with some interactive parts
[16:15] <LaserJock> and aseigo at least seems really eager to help
[16:16] <nubae> yeah I saw the last couple days, a lot of activity in here
[16:17] <LaserJock> the trick is to turn excitement into progress
[16:17] <nubae> well, we definitly have people wanting to contribute now
[16:17] <nubae> seems like the edubuntu community is growing again
[16:18] <nubae> I'll be at Fossdem in February, and I'll try promoting it a bit there too
[16:18] <Ahmuck> i have a question.  i know there is a progarm that will create flash type of presentations in linux.  however recently i've been struggling with digging through hundreds of programs to find that one jewel.  whereas as a windows user, i would simple go to adobe and get a flash creator and then do it htere.  another example is screen recording, etc.
[16:18] <highvoltage> fossdem sounds like it's going to be awesome
[16:18] <nubae> will u be there?
[16:18] <highvoltage> nope
[16:19] <nubae> Ahmuck: salasaga
[16:19] <Ahmuck> is there a set of packages that would allow gui tutorials without having to dig and dig to find the right one?
[16:19] <highvoltage> maybe I'll go next year.
[16:19] <nubae> yeah, its close to where I'm at... 59€
[16:19] <Ahmuck> ah, yes, that is the one i was thinking about ealier.  does  edubuntu list these?
[16:19] <nubae> Ahmuck: its being considered
[16:19] <nubae> but its still alpha software
[16:19] <Ahmuck> is it possible that edubuntu could package catagories of the best / educator friendly software?
[16:20] <nubae> I don't know if it would even belong in universe app bundle
[16:20] <nubae> Ahmuck: are u on the edubuntu-devel list?
[16:20] <nubae> we had a discussion on there about that
[16:34] <Ahmuck> nubae: nope
[16:35] <Ahmuck> i tend to avoid devel lists
[16:35] <nubae> the edubuntu one is quite tame...
[16:35] <Ahmuck> k, ill look at it
[16:35] <Ahmuck> u have a link
[16:35] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: don't avoid us, we don't bite :-)
[16:36]  * Ahmuck looks at other dev scars and considers
[16:36] <Ahmuck> k, i'm going to start making video tutorials
[16:37] <LaserJock> excellent
[16:37] <Ahmuck> point me to a link to sign up and i'll sign up on the dev list on a wait and see option
[16:38] <LaserJock> Ahmuck: the -devel list pretty much like the -users list except we talk about more stuff that we talk about in here
[16:39] <nubae> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel
[16:39] <Ahmuck> heh heh, i forget when you nick change it's across all channels
[16:41]  * Ahmuck picked batch mode
[16:41] <LaserJock> dont!
[16:42] <LaserJock> I really really wish I could get rid of that option :(
[16:42] <LaserJock> the digests are only good if you never ever ever plan on replying to a message
[16:43] <highvoltage> yeah
[16:43] <LaserJock> and since -devel has less traffic than -users it's not much of a benefit
[16:49] <LaserJock> I gotta run
[16:50] <LaserJock> but make sure to digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Why_we_need_Edubuntu_to_succeed
[16:50] <LaserJock> it even made Boycott Novell ;-)
[18:25] <Ahmuck> http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9667184
[18:33] <nubae> I just think those kind of reports are totally misleading
[18:33] <nubae> If this girl doesn't take the time to go review or read up about ubuntu, especially considering she's never heard of it before, she shouldn't be using it
[18:34] <nubae> if she bought a new dvd recorder or oven or whatever, she'd have to look at the damn manual...
[18:34] <nubae> why does she think it should be different for an even more advanced piece of equipment
[18:43] <ogra> she didnt
[18:44] <ogra> she didnt notice she bought ubuntu, she just picked the cheapest offer ... when she had ubuntu on the laptop she bought, she called dell to get windows
[18:44] <ogra> dell told her she will be fine with ubuntu
[18:44] <nubae> I mean after she got the laptop
[18:44] <nubae> dell convinced her it was a good choice
[18:44] <ogra> right
[18:45] <ogra> which was wrong, they talked her into it
[18:45] <nubae> yeah, but thats sales and marketing... people also talk vista users into getting that piece of crap
[18:45] <ogra> when she figured it wasnt the case and called dell again they said they wouldnt give her windows
[18:45] <nubae> part of the game, even though its totally immoral and wrong :-)
[18:45] <ogra> which caused her to go to the press
[18:46] <nubae> but she chose to spend no time to get to know her system
[18:46] <ogra> she didnt want to
[18:46] <ogra> and thats the point
[18:46] <nubae> right, but she agreed with dell to keep ubuntu
[18:47] <ogra> but found out she doesnt get along with it
[18:47] <ogra> and got told off the second time
[18:48] <nubae> yeah that was wrong... but she should still taken at least an hour to get to know her system
[18:48] <ogra> she took several days before she called dell and asked for windows
[18:48] <nubae> I've installed ubuntu for many beginners, that never heard of it before... and when they took the time, they all saw that it was possible to open .docs, and that it was possible to get on the internet easily
[18:48] <Ahmuck> i've found it's easier to introduce people to linux via linux only apps.  those apps that are show stopers
[18:49] <Ahmuck> hugin, evolution, etc
[18:49] <ogra> nubae, but she didnt have anyone showing it to her, was desperate and just wanted to get what she knows ...
[18:49] <nubae> yes, in several days she didn't see openoffice openned .docs...
[18:50] <nubae> My grandmother would figure that out in a couple hours
[18:50] <ogra> my mom does ... but she is open to it
[18:50] <nubae> right
[18:50] <ogra> this girl wasnt but dell forced her into it
[18:50] <ogra> and its her godgiven right to go to the press with that
[18:51] <nubae> yeah, I'm just annoyed at the reporter misleading
[18:51] <ogra> watch the show, the article puts it in a worse light than the show actually is
[18:51] <sbalneav> ogra: You know, Ubuntu could have a real public relations coup here
[18:52] <Lns> I think that whole thing is lame - people have to learn new interfaces all the time with M$ Office (ribbon bar?), Vista, etc...what's the diff here?
[18:52] <nubae> Lns: none, I agree with u
[18:52] <ogra> sbalneav, it already does ... sadly not the most positive one
[18:52] <sbalneav> Shuttleworth should phone her *personally*, and point her how to save her documents in Word
[18:52] <sbalneav> Imagine the press:
[18:52] <nubae> lol
[18:52] <Lns> totally! the community comes to the rescue.
[18:52] <sbalneav> "Hey, has Bill Gates ever phoned YOU and helped you?"
[18:53] <sbalneav> This could be totally turned around.
[18:53] <sbalneav> Into a triumph
[18:53] <sbalneav> I'm making a note here:
[18:53] <sbalneav> HUGE SUCCESS!
[18:54] <Lns> any publicity is good publicity..its all in perception
[18:54] <Lns> just think of how many people will hear the word ubuntu now'
[18:54] <Lns> and get interested
[18:54] <ogra> not many
[18:54] <Ahmuck> interesting, activepen is nothing more than a tablet, which we have
[18:54] <ogra> its either people who already know it and read the article or watched the show online
[18:55] <ogra> or its a bunch of local people in wisconsin
[18:55] <ogra> so yes, the popularity rises ... but thats a local tv station
[18:55] <ogra> wont rise much :)
[18:56] <Ahmuck> actually, this type of press is not good press
[18:56] <Ahmuck> there is a war beggining with linux/windows
[18:56] <Lns> ah..well i heard about it on slashdot, but again thats kinda the choir
[18:56] <Ahmuck> in the media.  first the teacher that told her student's it was illegal to use and pass out oss software and now this
[18:57] <ogra> Lns, but slashdotters *know* ubuntu already
[18:57] <Lns> Ahmuck: war is good business. Just ask GWB ;)
[18:57] <Lns> ogra: exactly, hence the choir
[18:57] <Ahmuck> lol, depends on what side your on
[18:57] <Lns> Ahmuck: we're on the good side! =)
[18:58] <sbalneav> I read a report that someone was going to help her get the internet online, and show her how to save her documents.
[18:59] <Ahmuck> just reviewed activepen software, and whiteboading.  so i assume that there is nothing in linux that will  connect?
[18:59] <Ahmuck> verizon is going to help her get online with linux - this is good, as it will help linux users in the long run
[19:00] <Ahmuck> and the university is going to help her with documents, this is good for linux as well, because it forces the university to adjust to the needs of the students
[19:00] <Ahmuck> even us linux students
[19:00] <Lns> wow, thats nice they're going to help w/linux and not shaft her..
[19:00] <Ahmuck> verizon or the uni?
[19:00] <Ahmuck> or both
[19:00] <Lns> its all exposure for linux now, which is good. Ahmuck - verizon
[19:01] <sbalneav> 'Sides, LOTS of people buy winderz boxes everyday, and can't get connected with 'em, or can;t figure out how to do something, I fail to see how someome managed to even blow this one up into the story it became.
[19:01] <Lns> We have a good potential with that exposure with Vista being so crappy in people's eyes
[19:01] <Ahmuck> http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9682258&nav=menu1362_2
[19:01] <Lns> and seeing that lots of ppl are coming in to the rescue for her
[19:02] <Lns> people see the community behind linux and they will like that
[19:02] <Ahmuck> Ubuntu fans read our story and linked to it on Linux fan message boards and other technology blogs.  By Thursday morning, several major technology websites featured WKOW's article on their front pages.
[19:02] <Ahmuck> That's also when the comments - many of them angry, rude, and hateful - started pouring in.
[19:02] <Ahmuck> and there is the problem
[19:02] <Lns> just dont feed the trolls..they'll go find something else later, as they did before...
[19:03] <ogra> and there were rude comments ...
[19:03] <Ahmuck> The young woman also contacted 27 News to report she's being harassed on her Facebook account by Ubuntu users.
[19:03] <ogra> really rude
[19:03] <Lns> ack..well that sucks
[19:03] <ogra> but they made up probably 10%
[19:03] <Ahmuck> it appears that dell is contacting her.  it may be that they are going to do an exchange to windows ?
[19:04] <ogra> the text doesnt cover what the news guy says in the show; that they recieved also a lot of help offers
[19:05] <sbalneav> And as for idiot FanBoi/Grlz spamming her blog, that's just stupid people being... well, stupid.
[19:05] <Lns> We need to remember that the media will only expose what will raise ppl's eyebrows
[19:05] <Lns> that will be mostly bad stuff. We need to counter that
[19:06] <Lns> Especially since M$ has a big part of the media, they can use it as leverage
[19:06] <Lns> smear campaigns, etc
[19:06] <Lns> which this could just be the start of
[19:10] <ogra> Lns, why do we have a link to suse documentation on the ubuntu ltsp page now ?
[19:10] <mib_dp49tl> Hey guys, I am still having issues install edubuntu on a Dell Mini 9.  I have ubuntu 8.10 installed, and I have extracted the contents of the edubuntu iso onto my usb stick, but I do not get an autorun.
[19:10] <Lns> ogra: I was going to put the other distro ltsp pages on there for reference..is that a bad thing?
[19:11] <ogra> well, it will confuse
[19:11] <Lns> how so?
[19:11] <ogra> specifically since suse doesnt use ltsp but kiwi
[19:11] <ogra> so none of our commands is valid for them, none of their commands is valid for us
[19:11] <Lns> maybe i can make a subsection of the links or something, "other LTSP related projects" ?
[19:11] <ogra> hmm
[19:12] <Lns> not a big deal either way, just wanted to be all inclusive
[19:12]  * ogra is still pretty upset about the suse fork of ltsp
[19:12] <sbalneav> mib_dp49tl: You didn't burn the cd?
[19:12] <mib_dp49tl> I don't have a cd drive for the netbook.
[19:12] <ogra> fedora at least goes with upstream so the commands rughly apply
[19:12] <ogra> but suse is totally off
[19:13] <sbalneav> ogra: mib_dp49tl's got the .iso file, how does he install edubuntu again?  I can't remember the magic.
[19:13] <ogra> loop mount it ?
[19:13] <Lns> I guess I can take it out, I was just thinking it would be nice to have so people can explore the "big picture" - not that im trying to get ppl to go with other distros, but i mean, everyone has a choice..was just putting the information out there
[19:13] <mib_dp49tl> I did that, but it will not autorun.
[19:13] <ogra> or make an USB key out of the iso might work
[19:14] <mib_dp49tl> I am not sure what to execute
[19:14] <ogra> system->administration->"create usb startup disk"
[19:14] <Lns> ogra: was just trying to go with the concept of "ubuntu" :)
[19:15] <ogra> Lns, well, suse refuses to go with that concept
[19:15] <sbalneav> ogra: No, he's got ubuntu installed, and he's just wanting to add on the Edubuntu disk.
[19:15] <ogra> sbalneav, right
[19:15] <sbalneav> It's something under the package manager, isn't it?
[19:15] <ogra> you can somehow point synaptic to a cd drive indeed
[19:16] <Lns> ogra: i know.. but its still thin client/friends related. Personally i think we should have MS terminal services links on there too, if for nothing else to show that we are trying to include everything..that way we can be seen as a central hub type of place, and people wont think we're trying to be the only thing out there
[19:16] <mib_dp49tl> I need to create an image for 100 of these!!
[19:16] <ogra> well, then put an "EVIL FORKS" section in and put it there
[19:16] <Lns> ogra: lol
[19:17] <Lns> i dont think that would be a good idea
[19:17] <ogra> it would also be pretty much alone in that section
[19:17] <ogra> but thats what they did
[19:17] <Lns> ogra: your perspective, not everyone's
[19:17] <Lns> we need to be unbiased
[19:17] <ogra> yes, and i'm bitter about my code being abused like that
[19:18] <ogra> but i've written GPL code so i cant complain
[19:19] <Lns> ogra: and I totally understand your point of view..and personally i agree with you, suse/novell can kiss my ass..I just dont want to try and convince others of my personal opinions
[19:19] <ogra> i mailed a good bunch of suse people and had a lot of conversations including offering them help to DTRT ... but they are not wanting to work with upstream
[19:19] <ogra> so i cant change it
[19:19] <Lns> that sucks
[19:20] <sbalneav> mib_dp49tl: I'll see if I can figure it out for you, one sec.
[19:20] <mib_dp49tl> thanks!
[19:20] <Lns> but that's their choice.. again, i was only trying to link to related projects so people can have the information, if they want it
[19:20] <ogra> so you have to maintain strange kiwi config files that trash your system setup and have to call *special* kiwi commands to execute them
[19:21] <ogra> yes, i understand what you aim to do, i wouldnt complain if you would link fedoras, gentoos, debians or even altlinux's pages
[19:21] <sbalneav> mib_dp49tl: I don't happen to have a cd image here, what 's in the root of the cd?
[19:21] <ogra> sbalneav, should be a standard package archive
[19:22] <Lns> ogra: well debians is already on there..i was planning on getting the rest of them up there right now
[19:22] <ogra> its 1.5 years ago that i even touched an edubuntu CD last though ...
[19:22] <mib_dp49tl> cdromupgrade, md5sum.txt, README.diskdefines, ubuntu
[19:22] <Lns> ogra: how about a subsection titled "Other thin-client related projects"
[19:22] <ogra> well, do what you want ...
[19:23] <ogra> as you mentioned, its my personal opinion and my personal bitterness as well
[19:24] <sbalneav> I think cdromupgrade's what you run
[19:24] <ogra> i know that warren feels the same though
[19:25] <mib_dp49tl> when I run cdromupgrade, it tells me that my ubuntu is up to date.
[19:25] <ogra> opne synaptic, go to edit->add cdrom
[19:26] <ogra> or run apt-cdrom add and install edubuntu-desktop on the commandline
[19:27] <ogra> (you must make sure the cd iso is mounted under /cdrom indeed)
[19:27] <sbalneav> Ah
[19:27] <sbalneav> then that's the magic :)
[19:27] <sbalneav> mib_dp49tl: make sure the cdrom iso's mounted under /cdrom
[19:28] <Ahmuck> with reguards to the whiteboard, a wacom bamboo tablet and a standard gimp page would work easlity enough.  however you would have to save each page
[19:28] <Ahmuck> part of the problem is, 8.04.  wacom bamboo tablets would need to be supported out of box for educators on ubuntu
[19:29]  * ogra would go the WIImote path ... but i have seen a live demo of that recently and indeed you need a projector
[19:33] <mib_dp49tl> ok, i'll try...Thanks again.
[19:50] <mib_dp49tl> It is now installing... Thanks for your help
[21:37] <alkisg> !info edubuntu-desktop
[21:42] <alkisg> I'm interested in packaging some windows educational applications into .debs, that depend on wine, install in /opt and have .desktop files, extension associations, /usr/bin/appname launchers etc, so that they behave like linux applications. If these applications are closed source, but I have redistribution license for them, would they be eligible for the universe component?
[21:43] <alkisg> (maybe LaserJock is the best person for this question, so allow me to ask it again): I'm interested in packaging some windows educational applications into .debs, that depend on wine, install in /opt and have .desktop files, extension associations, /usr/bin/appname launchers etc, so that they behave like linux applications. If these applications are closed source, but I have redistribution license for them, would they be eligible for the universe componen
[21:44] <LaserJock> they wouldn't be fore Universe
[21:44] <LaserJock> Universe is still "Free"
[21:44] <alkisg> Ah, sorry, multiverse then?
[21:44] <LaserJock> Multiverse is the non-free component
[21:45] <LaserJock> historically the MOTU have not liked having Windows binaries in the archive at all
[21:45] <LaserJock> they are concerned about minimizing the number of things we have 0 control over in terms of bugs and security
[21:46] <alkisg> So the only way to enable teachers to have easy to install windows educational applications, is to have a personal repository, right?
[21:46] <LaserJock> hmm
[21:46] <alkisg> (not a PPA, on my personal site I mean - PPAs are for open source apps only...)
[21:46] <LaserJock> well, can you download the windows app?
[21:47] <LaserJock> I wonder if you could create a package that downloads the .exe and sets it up in Wine
[21:47] <alkisg> Maybe I could make an installer like the msttcorefonts installer
[21:47] <LaserJock> right, exactly
[21:47] <alkisg> Would this be acceptable?
[21:47] <LaserJock> msttcorefonts is easy though because it's just extracting out the fonts and putting them in the system
[21:47] <alkisg> (for multiverse, I mean...)
[21:47] <LaserJock> I'm not sure how easy it would be to do it on a full applications
[21:48] <LaserJock> I really can't say for sure
[21:48] <LaserJock> certainly they would me more accepting of that approach as opposed to having the full .exe in our archive
[21:48] <alkisg> For full windows applications, uniextractor works wonders :)
[21:49] <LaserJock> I might suggest you talking with Scott Ritchie, I think his IRC nick is YoKozar or something
[21:49] <LaserJock> he is our Wine maintainer
[21:49] <alkisg> In #ubuntu-motu?
[21:49] <LaserJock> he might be there
[21:49] <LaserJock> you could ask #ubuntu-motu anyway
[21:49] <alkisg> OK, thanks LaserJock
[21:49] <LaserJock> but be warned, you'll probably get some "no way!" comments :-)
[21:50] <LaserJock> I know we've had arguments over it in the past
[21:50] <alkisg> Well, I already have a personal repository in my site, so it would be easier for me to just put them there, I just wanted to make them more generally available...
[21:50] <LaserJock> but Scott Ritchie is really interested in making Wine more usable for people so he would be a good resource
[21:58] <LaserJock> bdoin: you still around? how's gcompris going?
[21:59] <Ahmuck> doesn't wine-doors do this now?
[21:59] <Ahmuck> alkisg: doesn't wine-doors do this now?
[21:59] <bdoin> LaserJock: hi
[22:00] <alkisg> Ahmuck: not exactly, it installs per user, I'd like to install for all users
[22:00] <bdoin> gcompris does its best to survive in this cruel world !
[22:00] <Ahmuck> ah, with individual .user files
[22:00] <alkisg> So I'd make a .deb file out of each application
[22:00] <Ahmuck> in the individusl user directory for configuration?
[22:00] <LaserJock> bdoin: I was wondering if you were getting any feedback from people using gcompris on netbooks?
[22:00] <Ahmuck> alkisg: any chance an app could be written that one could automate the process?
[22:00] <bdoin> I have been reported that it comes pre-installed on asus eeepc
[22:01] <bdoin> the windows version
[22:01] <LaserJock> bdoin: really!?
[22:01] <bdoin> sorry, the linux version
[22:01] <LaserJock> bdoin: that's fantastic, congrats on that
[22:01] <alkisg> Ahmuck: not really - you'd need to rework wine for that
[22:01] <bdoin> thanks
[22:02] <LaserJock> bdoin: you were working on moving to a new canvas or something, right?
[22:04] <bdoin> yes, I am still on it but its long.
[22:05] <bdoin> I made a beta recently to show this work but not many people seams to follow it
[22:07] <LaserJock> hmm
[22:07] <LaserJock> bdoin: do you want people to be testing it a lot more
[22:07] <LaserJock> bdoin: perhaps we can use a PPA to let Ubuntu users test it out?
[22:08] <bdoin> not yet, it was more a preview of the ongoing work
[22:08] <bdoin> a PPA ?
[22:09] <ball> How do I specify which interface I want LTSP to use?
[22:11] <alkisg> ball: you mean the dhcp server?
[22:11] <ball> alkisg: yes, I know that was at least one part of it.  I'm trying to help someone who's trying to roll out Edubuntu at a school
[22:12] <alkisg> For dhcp, you do: sudo dpkg-reconfigure dhcp3-server
[22:12] <ball> he's got issues with one of his interfaces and wants to know how to ask Edubuntu to use another.
[22:12] <alkisg> The rest of the stuff will use whatever NIC is valid for the target IP
[22:12] <alkisg> So he should have a correct /etc/network/interfaces file...
[22:13] <ball> I would drive over there and help him, but a) I don't know Linux that well and b) it *way* too cold.
[22:13] <alkisg> Heh... you could ask for ssh access, and help him remotely
[22:14] <ball> alkisg: even if he could grant that, I wouldn't feel confident asking because I'm a bit lost when it comes to Linux.  If it were BSD I'd have a clue.
[22:15] <alkisg> You may also tell him to ask whatever question he has here or in #ltsp...
[22:15] <ball> Come to think of it, I could set up a test system here.
[22:15] <LaserJock> bdoin: sorry, a PPA is a Personal Package Archive
[22:15] <ball> alkisg: I'll see if he's up for that.
[22:15] <LaserJock> bdoin: it's a Launchpad feature that lets you make your own package repositories
[22:16] <LaserJock> bdoin: we could, for instance, package up your beta and put it in one of these PPAs which would allow people to apt-get it rather than having to compile it themselves
[22:16] <bdoin> well thanks, I see but I have enough work like that. I don't want to manage linux packaging unless it is cross distro
[22:17] <LaserJock> bdoin: well, i was sort thinking we'd do that for you, I wasn't expecting you to do it
[22:18] <bdoin> It's fine if someone want to take care of that, i'll appreciate
[22:18] <LaserJock> bdoin: do you have a wiki page for it?
[22:20] <Ahmuck> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKCrGvShZs&feature=related
[22:20] <Ahmuck> ok, wow.  we have a projector, and i'm sure i could get 50.00 from the budget.  this is windows, but does this work in linux?
[22:21] <bdoin> LaserJock: http://gcompris.net/wiki/index.php/Developer's_corner
[22:23] <LaserJock> bdoin: so you'd want the gcomprixogoo branch packaged, right?
[22:25] <bdoin> yes, I updated the wiki page to be more precise
[22:37] <LaserJock> bdoin: well, I think I'll take a stab at it. I'm really busy with school and other Edubuntu stuff so it may take a bit ;-)
[22:37] <LaserJock> bdoin: it'd be nice to give you some help with testing that out
[22:37] <bdoin> I plan to have completed in a couple of monthes
[22:39] <LaserJock> cool