[14:15] <jgdx> seb128, hey, is there anything we can do to get bug 1644268 moving upstream?
[14:15] <ubot5`> bug 1644268 in gnome-desktop (Ubuntu) "GnomeDesktop-WARNING **: Failed to load XKB rules file" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644268
[14:15] <seb128> jgdx, hey, not really, but I guess you have it in your overlay?
[14:15] <seb128> jgdx, I can upload to zesty if that makes you feel better..
[14:15] <jgdx> seb128, have what in the overlay?
[14:17] <seb128> jgdx, the patched version of gnome-desktop
[14:17] <jgdx> seb128, oh, I didn't know there was one
[14:17] <seb128> jgdx, one what? overlay?
[14:18] <jgdx> seb128, a patched version
[14:18] <seb128> jgdx, no, I was assuming you made a custom upload to the overlay, unsure why you would block on Ubuntu for that?
[17:22] <brunch875> Does anyone have any ideas as to get IP over USB without enabling rndis or simply make the computer use its own connection as gateway?
[17:23] <brunch875> so that I can ssh to phone without eating my data plan
[17:27] <greyback> brunch875: isn't "adb" enough?
[17:28] <brunch875> not installed here, no sudo access either
[17:28] <brunch875> also, my intention is to play around with SSH so it has to be SSH
[17:35] <greyback> brunch875: I don't know how to do what you want, but if you downloaded the right package from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android-tools you can get the "adb" binary with "dpkg-deb -x package.deb"
[17:36] <greyback> adb lets you easily do port forwarding to the device, which you can tunnel ssh over
[17:38] <brunch875> greyback: that is really relevant information anyway, thank you! :)
[17:47] <dobey> brunch875: you need adb
[17:47] <dobey> brunch875: enable developer mode and run "phablet-shell" on Ubuntu, and that is ssh over usb
[17:48] <dobey> just install phablet-tools on Ubuntu
[17:48] <brunch875> this is a public computer though, so no sudo
[17:48] <dobey> brunch875: but not sure what you mean about "get IP" exactly. do you want to use the phone as a tethering device, or just ssh to the phone?
[17:49] <brunch875> just ssh to it
[17:49] <dobey> brunch875: you don't need sudo
[17:49] <brunch875> to keep on debugging my yesterday's issues with ssh -Y
[17:49] <dobey> why do you think you need sudo?
[17:50] <brunch875> to install phablet-tools + dependencies, no?
[17:50] <dobey> not exactly; you can download them and unpack in a private dir to run from
[17:51] <dobey> i mean, yeah, you need sudo to install them into the system root; but you don't need sudo to use them i'm pretty sure, unless the machine you're on is locked down hard and you can't open the device as your user
[17:52] <brunch875> oh nice
[17:52] <brunch875> I assumed I'd need to get a whole framework of dependencies to get those tools to work
[17:54] <dobey> no adb doesn't really have any dependencies i don't think
[17:54] <dobey> and phablet-shell is just a script which runs adb to enable ssh forwarding over usb on the phone, and then connects to the phone over ssh over usb
[17:55] <brunch875> let's hope it lets me pass parameters to ssh
[23:13] <Acou_Bass> hi folks, is there anyway to troubleshoot battery life problems?
[23:14] <Acou_Bass> my nexus 4 with ota-13 used to get two days of battery life fairly easily (im a fairly light user) since the ota-14 update my phone isnt lasting one day evenwith zero usage aside from being in my pocket all day
[23:14] <Acou_Bass> XD


[13:24] <utente> I'm asking again, hoping someone know more about that: To enable Mythmote App on android as remote you have to enable “enable network remote control interface” in SETUP-GENERAL- sixth page of mythfrontend. When mythfronten is running you can check with “telnet <IP_ADDRESS> 6546” if the network control interface is enabled. But if you use Mythwelcome you have to close Mythfrontend to shutdown the system, and that mean to disable the
[13:24] <utente> network remote control interface too. Then Mythmote App on your smartphone do not work with Mythwelcome,and you need the keyboard just to press “ENTER”  to restart Mythfrontend. Any solution to that? Any way/solution to make “telnet <IP_ADDRESS> 6546” persistent ?? Thanks


[00:11] <jussi01> topyli: you here?
[00:11] <jussi01> or Tm_T?
[00:13] <nikrud> lair?
[00:14] <jussi01> hehe
[00:28] <Flannel> nikrud: well, ops don't hang out just anywhere you know.
[00:29] <nikrud> no, only in fetid lairs, I gues
[00:30] <jdong_> ugh. I said we would REVISIT in 2 weeks
[00:30] <jdong_> not unban.
[00:30] <jdong_> probably at the bottom of my priority queue for my busy day...
[00:42] <LjL> jdong_: what's at the top, picking your nose or eating your nails?
[00:43] <nikrud> hm, maybe Madpilot chose the right descriptor
[00:43] <Madpilot> I wrote "poking", not "picking"
[00:44] <nikrud> either fits with fetid lairs
[00:45] <jdong_> LjL: a mountain of homework
[00:45] <LjL> jdong_: hey, DON'T put the results of your nose picking on your homework paper!
[00:46] <LjL> (am i starting to sound a bit like mneptok perhaps?)
[00:46] <Pricey> you wish
[00:46] <Pici> (not yet)
[00:46] <LjL> (cool)
[00:47] <jdong_> you need to work a bit below the waistline.
[00:47] <LjL> jdong_: is that a hair glued to your homework paper by means of your nose picking product?
[00:48] <Madpilot> LjL, you'd need to say things like that far, far more often to start really sounding like mneptok
[00:48] <jdong_> LjL: it's nature's organic adhesive.
[00:48] <jdong_> now that's more mneptokish
[00:48] <LjL> your remark - yes it is
[00:49]  * nikrud considers a new game show: mneptok this!
[00:53] <jdong_> hmm I don't get how this "cheating" thing is supposed to work.
[00:53] <jdong_> so I have this kid's solutions in front of me.
[00:53] <jdong_> and just about intensely disagree with every other sentence.
[00:53]  * jdong_ wikipedias cheating
[00:55] <jussi01> jdong_: rofl!!
[00:56] <jdong_> I think it's like telephone.
[00:56] <jdong_> or a perpetual motion device
[00:56] <jdong_> where a small perturbance of BS self-amplifies to a genetic strain of LaTeX writeups
[00:57] <jdong_> of course, PRETTY wrong answers are better than hastily scribbled ones
[01:14] <LjL> as much of a troll as shizuo is, i disagree on that deserving an ops call
[01:14] <LjL> ... although the later one does
[01:16] <DBO> LjL, probably could have gotten him back in line by derailing the touchy conversation too
[01:16] <LjL> DBO: right but i had already kicked him from #ubuntu just earlier (and in a couple other occasions too), all he did in -ot was basically troll all the time, and the lesbian thing was just a tad over it
[01:17] <DBO> LjL, ah in that case
[01:17] <LjL> by the way... PM for the giggles
[01:17] <LjL> [02:15:12] <Shizuo> ARE YOU A LEZBO? [02:15:17] <LjL> yeah [02:15:23] <Shizuo> Wow, nice [02:15:28] <Shizuo> An italian men-lezbo [02:15:39] <Shizuo> That's howt
[01:17] <DBO> heheh
[01:17] <DBO> LjL, I thought I should probably let you know
[01:17] <DBO> I am in a position to ramp up my opping again =)
[01:18] <DBO> Docky is released and public so no more long nights hacking alone =P
[01:18] <LjL> so i can just disappear for a couple of months again safe in the knowledge there actually are ops?
[01:18] <DBO> yeah =)
[01:20] <DBO> general observation
[01:20] <DBO> the #ubuntu channel is actually less rowdy as far as trolling goes than 3 years ago when it was much smaller
[01:21] <LjL> possibly... it's also (imho) worsened in help quality though
[01:21] <DBO> LjL, i wouldn't know about that to be honest
[01:21] <DBO> I have not had to ask for help in months
[01:22] <DBO> though that is probably suggestive of a more general user base
[01:23] <LjL> mostly i'd say that anything that can't be answered with a factoid tends to not get answered at all
[01:24] <LjL> which may go to prove that we have comprehensive factoids, but
[01:24] <DBO> hmmm
[01:24] <DBO> I think user based support tends to fall apart as a product matures
[01:27] <LjL> yeah i think possibly there should be closer contact between the regular helpers and some developers
[01:29] <DBO> i think that sounds reasonable
[01:47] <nickrud> LjL, you're totally right about the help level. go to contacts would make a big difference. Hard to do without being annoying for the go to's, though
[01:49] <LjL> nickrud: they'd have to opt in and somehow have some assurance that they can freely ignore questions they can't be arsed with
[01:49] <nickrud> maybe an invite only channel as the interface
[01:50] <LjL> nickrud, -meta was pretty much based on that concept but it just didn't catch on
[01:50] <nickrud> and of course, us lazy helpers need to make better efforts at keeping up with changes.
[01:51] <LjL> nickrud: sure, it would help, though, if the ones making the changes would make some high-level documentation about them - not *user* documentation on how to practically do stuff, but *helper* documentation on how something's basic architecture is like
[01:52] <LjL> like, to cite an example i've already overused, i know that "some" X settings "mostly" to do with input devices have "moved" from xorg.conf to "somewhere" in the HAL config
[01:52] <LjL> but that's a bit vague
[01:53] <nickrud> yep. I pretty much avoid X now, except for basics.
[01:53] <LjL> same here, i just won't tell someone asking about resolutions or refresh rates anything
[01:53] <LjL> because i know i'm not "supposed" to just tell them to stick a line in xorg.conf anymore
[01:54] <LjL> but what i *am* supposed to tell me beats me
[01:54] <Pici> !x
[01:54] <nickrud> heh. res issues, if it's more than the monitor's rates not getting reported correctly I just throw up my hands. But that's also a function of things working so well
[01:55] <nickrud> I always learned because things needed fixing or configuring. I haven't had to do any but superficial stuff for a couple years and it shows
[01:56] <LjL> nickrud: that's also true, but isn't that just because you've had a working Ubuntu install for a while and it just keeps working? i suspect it's not all working so smoothly for new users
[01:57] <nickrud> LjL, yes. wireless and sound for all too many. Also things I've not had issues with since gutsy.
[01:58] <nickrud> wireless less so, sound changes radically (it seems) nearly every release
[01:58] <LjL> unless you're on kde
[01:58] <LjL> ewll, unless you're on kde 3.5
[01:58] <LjL> i think i mean - unless you've stuck to hardy for too long
[01:59] <nickrud> which reminds me, time to try a jaunty install on a spare partition. Down to less than 2 months
[01:59] <LjL> there's a few things i should try out but haven't the disk space to...
[02:00] <LjL> jaunty is one, but kde 4.2 as well
[02:00] <LjL> and, erm, windows 7
[02:00] <LjL> (and for that matter, i've never touched vista either, although i'm not sure i'm losing much)
[02:01] <nickrud> should try both. probably will windows 7 not sure about kde. It's always seemed 'wrong' somehow. probably a personal failing
[02:02] <nalioth> more cancer causing eye candy
[02:02] <nalioth> windoze isnt' getting 'better', y'all
[02:02] <nickrud> !best | nalioth
[02:02] <LjL> nalioth: at least it isn't getting worse - like kde
[02:02] <tritium> nalioth: I'm heading your direction this evening.
[02:02] <LjL> wait... it is
[02:02] <tritium> (sort of)
[02:03] <nalioth> tritium: Roswell?
[02:03] <LjL> at least in windows they've added some eye candy and mostly retained what was there
[02:03] <LjL> in kde 4, they've added eye candy and removed everything else
[02:04] <nickrud> 1.4 -> 2.0 gnome was the same, don't hold that against them. It may be a good move in the long run.
[02:04]  * nalioth uses enlightenment 17 and wishes he could figure out frame buffer graphics . .
[02:04] <nickrud> ummm, sliding desktops .....
[02:04] <nickrud> That is something I really miss from my first ever linux desktop
[02:05] <LjL> nickrud: did also the gnome 2.0 featured changelogs have things like "entirely new cube effect in kwin" and "plasma widgets can finally be rotated"?
[02:05] <tritium> With the impending devaluation of the dollar, I'm switchign to all-terminal, so I can run on old hardware and not buy a new one for decades.  ;)
[02:05] <LjL> nickrud: sliding desktops?
[02:05] <nickrud> LjL, e17
[02:05] <LjL> sounds amiga-ish
[02:06] <tritium> switching, even
[02:06] <nalioth> e17 is wonderful
[02:06] <nickrud> think of them as vertically stacked, you can slide them aside fully or partially to expose lower desktops
[02:06] <LjL> nickrud: then exactly like the amiga
[02:06] <LjL> nickrud: (except on the amiga they could each have a different resolution and color depth)
[02:07] <nickrud> I missed the amiga bandwagon, more business oriented at the time.
[02:08] <LjL> nickrud: they're called "screens" in amigaos, a screen has a titlebar with a "depth" gadget on the right which you can click to bring the next screen to the foreground, and if you drag and drop on the title bar, you move the screen vertically (and horizontally, if its virtual size is larger than the actual display size)
[02:09] <LjL> nickrud: the underlaying screen, however, can be an entirely different resolution than the one you're dragging. only thing is this probably wouldn't be possibly on today's monitors (especially LCD ones) - and even less so on today's graphics cards
[02:09] <tritium> LjL: your middle shrunk back to just one "j".  Jenny Craig?  Hacker's diet?  South Beach?
[02:09] <nickrud> purpose build gpu's huh?
[02:10] <LjL> nickrud: eh, no one called it a "GPU" back then... but of course, they had their own custom chipset - that's what it was called
[02:10] <LjL> tritium: i'm on my deeesktop now.
[02:11] <LjL> nickrud: basically, there was a chip that could be programmed to automatically do stuff (without involving the CPU) when the raster reached a certain line - stuff such as change the registers that contained resolution and depth
[02:12] <LjL> nickrud: the system used that to implement sliding screens, but also games and programs used it for all sorts of reasons - mostly to get more colors on the screen, at the end of the day
[02:12] <nickrud> heh. scary for the crt :)
[02:12] <LjL> nickrud: maybe for today's crts it would be, but the ones that were used those days couldn't really care less
[02:13] <LjL> nickrud: at least, the TV that i used as a monitor didn't ;)
[02:15] <nickrud> crappy tolerances, flexible display I guess
[02:16]  * nickrud makes a note that LjL does love his amigas
[02:16] <nickrud> ;)
[02:17] <LjL> nickrud: of course i do. i'd still be using it if, uhm, it had memory protection, were open source, and had any decent programs left.
[02:17] <LjL> nickrud: it's not asking for too much is it
[02:17] <nickrud> nah, sounds like a project :)
[02:18] <LjL> nickrud: the project is there already, it's called AROS, but they don't want to get memory protection stuck in - i tried, but i gave up because i can only use gdb so long as i don't get a messed up stack frame
[02:18] <LjL> nickrud: and as for the programs, well, i'm not the one to write word processors or web browsers i'm afraid
[02:18] <nickrud> why no memory protection, it's almost a requirement for multitasking
[02:19] <nickrud> *safe multitasking
[02:19] <LjL> nickrud: because it's an ages-old amiga meme that "proper memory protection just can't be added without breaking everything"
[02:20] <LjL> nickrud: which is possibly even true, but how much of "everything" is there? there's hardly any useful programs left, and the ones there are aren't open source so won't run on x86, and the OS was rewritten from scratch
[02:20] <nickrud> I could be convinced that's true. I did once read a book about amiga os ;) and what I took away was everything was linked lists. Might be hard to tack protection into that
[02:20] <LjL> nickrud: it's hard alright, a good few parts of the system assume programs can just write stuff into the system's list
[02:21] <nickrud> hah. Well, thats a wonderful thing there
[02:21] <LjL> nickrud: but not so much that you can't change it... the developers weren't entirely crazy after all, there even is a MEMF_PUBLIC flag for AllocMem() that's intended to declare a region of memory as public. it never *did* anything, but the docs do say it's important to use it properly for "future memory protection"
[02:22] <LjL> nickrud: which, of course, means that *no* application developer ever used it properly. but so what, applications have to be ported anyway
[02:22] <LjL> nickrud: if on the other hand you were asking why there was no memory protection in the first place... well, MMUs cost
[02:23] <nickrud> yeah, the
[02:23] <nickrud> $1000 amiga idea (although the good ones always cost more iirc)
[02:24] <LjL> they did
[02:24] <LjL> nickrud: there's also speed concerns. memory protection *does* slow things down. it's worth it, but it was arguably not worth it on a 7MHz 68000
[02:24] <nickrud> you gotta remember that in the 80's & early 90's I lived in Seattle. Wintel was god there and then
[02:24] <LjL> nickrud: consider that not only do you need to shuffle MMU tables around, but you also have to put safety checks in every system function for memory protection to make sense at all
[02:25] <LjL> s/safety checks/sanity checks/
[02:25] <nickrud> 7 mhz. God, I'd forgotten how slow stuff was then. Even C programs had hand crafted assembler for recurrent loops
[02:26] <LjL> nickrud: for that matter AmigaOS (AmigaDOS, specifically) has bits of BCPL code in it...
[02:27] <LjL> nickrud: now it doesn't, and AROS doesn't, but it still needs to support BCPL-style pointers for API compatibility. a BCPL pointer being a pointer somehow crammed into one byte, basically
[02:27] <nickrud> has to have an offset somewhere, or you're pretty limited
[02:28] <nickrud> had to do a quick google for bcpl so I really have no clue about it
[02:28] <LjL> nickrud: yeah i don't remember just how they work exactly, and i don't honestly even care - i'd rather pretend they don't exist
[02:29] <LjL> nickrud: well, in a nutshell, there was BCPL, B was a simpler version of it, and then they made C
[02:29] <nickrud> one byte pointers remind me of 6502, the only one I actually got good at machine code. I remember when we first got MACROS for it :)
[02:31] <LjL> nickrud: i've had a C64 but never messed with assembly, was too young to even really know what it was... more recently i played with Z80 assembly for fun. i have betrayed the 6502 by doing that, i guess... but it deserves it. what an ugly instruction set.
[02:31] <nickrud> you're telling me?
[02:31] <nickrud> hahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha
[02:32] <LjL> just sayin'
[02:32] <LjL> the Z80 makes sense.
[02:32] <LjL> not that i actually programmed in its assembly... i just attempted to write an OS in C, obviously had to put some bits and pieces of assembly in it
[02:33] <LjL> but in the process i did stumble upon the 6502 counterpart, and it's just... on a different level
[02:34] <nickrud> yeah, I know. When I got a c compiler (actually an interpreter, but that's another story) i was able to get away from assembler for all but really time critical stuff. But soon after I moved to 8086 and 68000 based systems and used C exclusively (except for a proprietary machine control language written in C)
[02:35] <nickrud> But that was 20 years ago. things have changed radically and I don't think for the worse overall
[02:36] <LjL> nickrud: i'm not sure, i can't honestly say they've changed for the better from a *user's* point of view. for the developer, maybe.
[02:37] <LjL> nickrud: but then again somehow i feel more at home trying to write an OS for the Z80, where i know i *can* know what every single instruction is doing, then learning some complicated and extravagant APIs, such as GUI APIs for instance
[02:37] <nickrud> hah. ah, gui api's and my abandonment of paid programming are intimately related :)
[02:38] <LjL> nickrud: i've never been paid to program to begin with, but anyway i seem have my doors irrevocably shut on learning those things. which is kind of limiting, sometimes i'd like to, you know, get some stuff shown on the screen as opposed to saved into a text file...
[02:39] <LjL> at least i could do that on AmigaBASIC without learning, oh, how to create an application instance, a top-level window instance, a drawable instance...
[02:39] <nickrud> there's always visual basic for you :)
[02:39] <LjL> an event driver, an object-oriented communication interface, a GUI toolkit instantiation...
[02:40] <LjL> nickrud: yeah - and i've used it, and contrary to most, i've no shame in admitting it
[02:40] <LjL> ... but then VB is braindead in a number of other ways
[02:40] <nickrud> there is none. sooner or later there'll be one for gnome or kde; I'm sure there are kids working on them for fun right now and one will probably mature
[02:41] <LjL> nickrud: there's one for kde
[02:41] <LjL> !info gambas
[02:41] <LjL> or perhaps there isn't
[02:41] <nickrud> I've read about gambas, but nothing saying it's more than a nice toy for most purposes
[02:41] <LjL> !info gambas2
[02:41] <LjL> nickrud: so is VB...?
[02:41] <nickrud> yep
[02:42] <nickrud> they need to change the name, kambas or some such. they're in the wrong namespace
[02:43] <LjL> nickrud: still, say for instance - some time ago i wanted to have some fun with genetic programming, and have colored pixels somewhat akin to bacteria moving on the screen. now, where did i give up? of course at the having pixels move on the screen in X part.
[02:44] <LjL> and on the other hand, stuff like VB doesn't help with that, either, because it's a clumsy interpreter for a clumsy language where i could never do any genetic programming interpreter
[02:44] <LjL> but hell, all i was asking for was to have a window to draw single pixels on!
[02:44] <nickrud> is visual c any better now? I used it a bit, or it's predecessor, version 1.0 for a bit.
[02:44] <LjL> no idea
[02:45] <nickrud> windriver? I vaguely remember that as my primary compiler back then
[02:45] <LjL> i only used VB as far as microsoft stuff goes
[02:45] <LjL> when i started using C, i did that on linux
[02:45] <nickrud> heh.  I have an epic troll for you
[06:25] <nickrud> political, hence not appropriate here
[06:39] <Myrtti> ubottu: tell ivanoats|away about away
[06:53] <Myrtti> @bansearch probot
[06:56] <Mez> lmao - my laptops being delivered by armoured guards?
[06:57] <Myrtti> Mez: that's because they are going to do a search on you first before giving it to you
[06:57] <Flannel> Mez: Obviously its already got all of your sensitive information on it.
[06:57] <nickrud> it's just a front so they can get you in their clutches
[06:57] <Myrtti> "color of briefs: purple"
[06:57] <Mez> I'm not going to be taking delivery of it
[06:57] <Mez> Myrtti: :P
[06:57] <Mez> it's actually grey today :D
[06:58]  * Myrtti sods off to make a reservation to the laundrette
[06:58] <nickrud> ew, wash them!! /me does mnemtok
[06:58]  * Mez wont be here to take delivery, but it says on tracking "passed to securicor"
[06:58] <Mez> nickrud: fresh out the dryer :D these ones are meant to be grey
[06:59] <nickrud> reservation of laundrette. I read that in a Mankell novel, and still find it amazing
[07:10] <Myrtti> nickrud: what's so amazing?
[07:11] <nickrud> that reservations are necessary or available; I'm assuming an apartment building? There's no way you could enforce a reservation system here
[07:11] <Myrtti> yeah, apartment building laundrette, shared by two buildings
[07:12] <Myrtti> they've started to charge the other building people for drying their clothes, one euro for one hour
[07:13] <Myrtti> doing my laundry at the laundrette is so much easier and faster than if I had my own washing machine
[07:13] <nickrud> that's how it's done here, both wash and dry. roughly the same cost.
[07:14] <nickrud> oh, I miss my washer/dryer combo. Toss the laundry in the washer before heading off to work, toss it in the dryer when I get home.
[07:14] <Myrtti> we have only the drying room
[07:14] <Myrtti> actually, two of them
[07:18] <Tm_T> jussi01: yes?
[07:42] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[07:54] <Tm_T> coffee with "energy drink"
[07:55] <Tm_T> and double dose of meds
[09:40] <Myrtti> I'm getting done with DaemonFC soon
[09:40] <Myrtti> just so you know
[09:43] <Tm_T> in u ?
[09:43] <Tm_T> hi Seper how can we help you?
[09:43] <ikonia> I've just forwarded him here
[09:43]  * jussi01 prods ikonia
[09:44] <ikonia> just to make it clear that #ubuntu is not discriminating against langauges, there are seperate lanaguage channels, hence ubuntu are not language naztis
[09:44] <ikonia> and the phrase natzi - is not really called for or welcome in ubuntu channels
[09:44] <ikonia> Seper: does that make sense to you ?
[09:45] <Seper> yes
[09:45] <ikonia> ok, so I'll remove the ban, but please just think about what you say in ubuntu channels
[09:46] <ikonia> Seper: the ban has been removed, as has the mute, you're welcome to leave this channel and re-join #ubuntu
[09:46] <Seper> ok
[09:46] <Myrtti> have a nice day and thanks for flying with Ubuntu
[09:47] <Seper> thanks
[09:50] <jussi01> !idle | Seper
[09:53] <Myrtti> ok folks
[09:53] <Myrtti> I'm really getting fed up with DaemonFC
[09:53] <Myrtti> topyli
[09:56] <elky> Myrtti, i was fed up with him 5 minutes after he first joined the channel
[09:56] <Myrtti> I'm not taking his crap for much longer so I'm going to kick him to kingdom come the next chance I get
[09:57] <topyli> i'm also waiting for him to say something smart again
[10:35] <ish2> rww in #ubuntu told me to tell you that i came up with a short-term bad idea of putting #ubuntu-offtopic in the topic of #ubuntu, so people like me don't go mouthing off about nothing in there
[10:38]  * Myrtti blinks
[10:41] <ikonia> ish2: so few people read the topic I don't think it would make a difference to the ammount of moderation needed
[10:41] <ish2> you've got me there
[10:42] <ish2> but then at least you could point to it all the time, keep off the grass means little to me when it's not posted
[10:43] <ikonia> ish2: most people respect being told about the offtopic channel
[10:43] <ikonia> ish2: refering to the topic or telling people the about it is the same ammount of effort
[10:46] <ish2> i can spam the message every 2 minutes for a low low fee of $.02 cents an hour!
[10:46] <ikonia> ok, well thanks for the suggestion
[10:46] <ish2> you can't afford not to?
[10:46] <ikonia> ish2: anything else you need help with ?
[10:46] <ish2> no, i'll be on my way, thx
[10:46] <ikonia> thanks for the feedback
[10:48] <Myrtti> was that random, or do I just imagine it?
[10:49] <ikonia> just trying to be helpful I guess
[10:50] <bazhang> the number of folks who dont know where to download ubuntu is surprising
[10:50] <bazhang> and that is in the topic iirc
[11:07] <jussi01> who actually reads the topic anyway?
[11:07]  * Myrtti smacks jussi01
[11:07] <jussi01> hehe
[11:07] <Myrtti> infidel
[11:07] <jussi01> /slap Myrtti
[11:08] <bazhang> psufan of 'I want to install ubuntu on my bmw through midi port' was at it in another linux channel
[11:09] <jussi01> hrm, this is weird... my irc works fine, but web adresses keep getting page load errors...
[11:09] <Myrtti> jussi01: dns problems then
[11:09] <jussi01> ahh
[11:09] <ikonia> jussi01: proxu is dead
[11:09] <ikonia> proxy
[11:10] <jussi01> Ill have to ask ikonia about it
[11:10] <bazhang> I always restart my router in those cases
[11:10] <ikonia> jussi01: make sure proxy is disabled
[11:10] <jussi01> ikonia: not using the proxy
[11:10] <jussi01> ikonia: Im in the uk... no need :D
[11:11] <Myrtti> if webpages don't work but irc does, it's usually a sign of dns problems, ie. connections that are already established remain as their domain names are already resolved, but new ones fail as name resolution has crapped out
[11:11] <Myrtti> happened at COSS all the time, but the infrastructure used Cisco, so what can you expect.
[11:12] <Myrtti> for it to work? BWHAHAHAHA
[11:12] <Myrtti> sorry.
[11:22] <jussi01> is sarcasm really evil?
[11:22] <elky> if so, i'm going to the deepest level of hell.
[11:24] <elky> * rww 05:48:45> makes pizza from scratch, is a pizza elitist <-- w00t! someone found a way to avoid the 'Soup N***' reference all by himself!
[12:39] <Myrtti> Tm_T: when are you due south the next time?
[12:40] <jussi01> oh dear...
[12:40] <jussi01> lovely guy asking why his ddos attack failed...
[12:40] <Myrtti> where?!
[12:40] <jussi01> #k
[12:41] <Myrtti> oh boy
[12:45] <ikonia> interesitng, if I'm cloaked and I do a /who on my ip it doesn't show me on line
[12:45] <ikonia> I thought a cloak hid your IP but did not prevent queries on it
[12:46]  * jussi01 gently nudges ikonia
[12:53] <Pici> bazhang: I have him in pm, and hes making no sense.
[12:54] <bazhang> Pici, I re-directed him but actionparsnip wanted to help him
[12:54] <bazhang> little does he know of the sometimes errant nature of the -ru participants
[12:56] <bazhang> lovely
[12:56] <jussi01> I got sick of it...
[12:56] <bazhang> and he's back
[12:56] <Pici> Maybe he can behave this time
[12:57] <jussi01> lets see
[12:57] <bazhang> I bet no
[13:04] <Myrtti> I wish ActionParsnip would snip his eagerness to help and withdraw from action when there's a suspicion about foul play
[13:04] <bazhang> con wifi?
[13:04] <bazhang> that sounds fishy tbh
[13:04] <Myrtti> one example yes
[13:04]  * Pici agrees
[13:06] <Myrtti> I've got a nasty answer to this:
[13:06] <Myrtti> [15:06] < Riya> actionParisnip I did that all but i can't browse net i am  geting server not fount msg . wat i do /
[13:07] <bazhang> o/
[13:07] <Myrtti> "tough shit, kid. How about you find some other way to connect to the internet instead of trying to crack the staff wifi"
[13:07] <Myrtti> "oops"
[13:08] <Myrtti> if he's connected to the internet right now, then why would he need to connect specifically to the staff wifi...
[13:10] <Myrtti> I'm an AWFUL PERSON
[13:11] <Myrtti> speaking of which
[13:11] <Myrtti> Tm_T: when you're coming south or when I'm coming over to see you, I'm going to give Ronja my polar bear plushies.
[13:12] <bazhang> is amigimaia wildly offtopic, or am I just having a bad day
[13:13] <Myrtti> bazhang: he's not wildly offtopic, but a bit off the track
[13:13] <bazhang> or c) both   :)
 what is aircrack ?
[13:14] <bazhang> :/
[13:19] <Myrtti> riya's english is so broken it's just awful
[13:21] <Dave2> .wein 686
[13:22] <Myrtti> a perfect example how people whose native language isn't English shouldn't even try with "U" "r" "l8r" and so on
[13:22] <Myrtti> Dave2: DOUBLE FAIL
[13:22] <Dave2> Myrtti: always :(
[13:22] <Dave2> (though double?)
[13:22] <Dave2> oh, the . and e
[13:22] <Dave2> I do appear t ofail \o/
[13:23] <Dave2> ... *gives up, wants sleep*
[13:23] <jussi01> Epic fail!
[13:23] <Myrtti> c-c-c-combo breaker!
[13:35]  * Myrtti hides from IceStar, goes to the damn laundrette
[13:35] <Pici> :D
[13:51] <Tm_T> Myrtti: oooh, great (:
[14:07] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I have tried to send some pics for you now 3 times already, maybe I manage to do that now finally :p
[14:37] <Myrtti> Tm_T: that means atleast three brand spanking ones and one that needs washing (I'll wash it before giving it to you, if you want it, that is)
[14:37] <Myrtti> I think I'll keep one, the one with the snoring mechanism
[14:44] <Tm_T> Myrtti: ofcourse want!
[14:46] <Myrtti> I just put the dried Valentine's day bouquet on my bookshelf and started to think that the plushies have no emotional meaning to me anymore, so I'd better give them to better use
[14:46] <Tm_T> to me?
[14:46]  * Tm_T hides
[14:47] <Myrtti> to you or to Ronja :-)
[14:48] <Tm_T> both that is then
[14:48]  * Tm_T is constantly running out of cpu time, ram and disk space
[14:50] <jussi01> now this is _cool_ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9011409662.html
[14:50] <jussi01> I want one!!
[14:51] <jussi01> oh, crap, not -ot... meh
[14:51] <Tm_T> :-P
[14:55] <Tm_T> why that weak cpu
[14:55] <Tm_T> and no RAM mentioned
[14:56] <Tm_T> but otherwise looks really giid
[14:56] <jussi01> Tm_T: its an arm...
[15:20] <Tm_T> jussi01: I know
[15:21] <Myrtti> @bansearch denstark
[15:22] <jussi01> @bansearch Gary
[15:22] <jussi01> unbeleivable...
[15:22] <Gary> that is
[15:22] <Myrtti> jussi01: c'mon, perk up man
[15:22] <Gary> @bansearch GazzaK
[15:24] <jussi01> i before e, except after c... grrr
[15:24] <Myrtti> stjuupid bot, can't find any bans for GazzaK
[15:25] <Gary> they were all oldish ones
[15:25] <jussi01> were they not all before this trackers time?
[15:25] <Gary> there were a lot too
[15:25] <Myrtti> probably
[15:26] <Tm_T> jussi01: btw that particular OMAP3 cpu+stuff is low-end version (:
[15:26] <jussi01> Gary: you scare me: [17:22:28] <Gary> damn I needs sweeties
[15:26]  * Myrtti shoves Garys mouth full of Rock
[15:26] <Gary> jussi01: I'm bored at work, need them for me, not for anything else :p
[15:27] <Gary> better then stinky socks
[15:27]  * jussi01 is feeling particularly weird today...
[15:27] <Gary> I feel like that all the time :p
[15:27] <jussi01> Gary: which part of the country are you located?
[15:27]  * jussi01 is currently in warrington...
[15:27] <Gary> either Colchester (Essex) or Nottingham (midlands)
[15:28] <Myrtti> 13d, 8h, 22m!d
[15:28] <Myrtti> WHEEE
[15:35] <jussi01> ikonia: can you talk here atm?
[15:40] <Myrtti> whee
[15:40] <LjL> is it splitland today?
[15:41] <LjL> it's not nice when i'm playing globulation! the scrolling slows it down, and the konv OSD gets in my way :(
[15:42] <nickrud> flannel, is that guy accusing you of trying to break his machine? ;)
[15:42] <Flannel> nickrud: Its what I do best.
[15:43] <LjL> oh not again
[15:44] <LjL> what's this bartol server that's splitting
[15:44] <LjL> the name alone sounds dodgy
[15:47] <Myrtti> *splat*
[16:16] <nealmcb> After discussion in the ubuntu-server meeting we decided that given the screen-profiles package (for jaunty and as a manual .deb for hardy etc), it would be good to update the factoid for screen to "Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also good for use over ssh.  See https://launchpad.net/screen-profiles for status bars, clocks, notifiers (reboot-required, updates-available), etc."
[16:16] <LjL> !screen
[16:17] <LjL> nealmcb: do you think the currently given links should be removed?
[16:19] <nealmcb> I was hoping the existing ubuntu-oriented page that dustin maintains would point to whatever is most appropriate.
[16:19] <nealmcb> I'll dig thru it a bit and talk to him if necessary
[16:19] <LjL> nealmcb: sorry, that page being?
[16:19] <nealmcb> the screen-profiles link in the text I suggested
[16:20] <nealmcb> https://launchpad.net/screen-profiles
[16:20] <LjL> nealmcb: ah well but that's a launchpad page about the profiles project, wouldn't it be more appropriate to have a help wiki entry for screen?
[16:20] <Tm_T> LjL: would
[16:20]  * Tm_T hides
[16:20] <Myrtti> +1
[16:20] <LjL> i'll go draft one
[16:21] <nealmcb> yeah that was my first suggestion, but I was happy to just see dustin's page.  but that would be better.  ohh - cool
[16:21] <nealmcb> have folks here tried screen-profiles?
[16:21] <Tm_T> not me, I use screen only with irssi currently
[16:22] <LjL> i have not
[16:22] <Myrtti> is there any other use for screen than running irssi? :-D
[16:22] <Myrtti> j/k
[16:22] <nealmcb> the main point is just dustin's insight that screen can be pitched as a window manager, and a bunch of server-team activity around screen-profiles has made that real
[16:23] <nealmcb> see also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ServerGUI
[16:23] <LjL> i think that's a result of that server being delinked
[16:29] <nealmcb> LjL: so where are you thinking for the screen wiki: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen  ?   see also https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DinkelVersus/Screen
[16:29] <LjL> nealmcb: yeah, what you said - that page is free
[16:30] <LjL> nealmcb: i suppose i'll integrate that page
[16:30]  * nealmcb is puzzled about the DinkelVersus pages
[16:31] <LjL> what exactly is DinkelVersus i have no idea
[16:31] <Pici> Its a person.
[16:31] <Pici> See the page history.
[16:40] <Myrtti> @bansearch anonymous1112
[16:40] <Myrtti> ludo2612: hello, how can we help you
[16:40] <ludo2612> Myrtti: one i can't connect me to the #kubuntu channel
[16:41] <nealmcb> Pici: but why put community documentation on urls with your name in them?
[16:42] <Pici> nealmcb: Maybe it was only meant to be a work-in-progress document?
[16:43] <ludo2612> Myrtti: I am redirecting to ubuntu-proxy-users
[16:44] <Myrtti> ludo2612: unfortunately I'm not an op at #kubuntu so I can't help you
[16:45]  * jpds wonders what amy__ is doing to ipod users in #u.
[16:46] <Pici> ludo2612: You can join #kubuntu now, I've added an exception for you
[16:47] <ludo2612> Pici: thank you
[16:48] <ludo2612> Pici: but I don't understand why i was banned, could you explain me please ?
[16:48] <Myrtti> because you're using mibbit
[16:48] <ludo2612> ok
[16:48] <ludo2612> Pici: why mibbit users are banned ?
[16:49] <Pici> ludo2612: Because we get unwanted abuse from people who use mibbit.
[16:49] <ludo2612> Pici: ok I am sorry, I will reconnect me with xchat
[16:49] <LjL> nealmcb: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen have a look
[16:50]  * Myrtti screams at #ubuntu-offtopic
[16:50] <Myrtti> STOP BEING IDIOTS
[16:51] <nealmcb> LjL: nice.  I think the wikipedia page would also be helpful - hopefully more uptodate over time than the 2004 article from kuroshin
[16:51] <LjL> !no screen is <reply> Screen is a terminal multiplexer and a window manager for terminal sessions, especially useful on remote SSH consoles. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen for information and usage instructions.
[16:51] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[16:51] <LjL> nealmcb: the wikipedia page though doesn't say very much that's useful to a user - it basically just states what it is, its history...
[16:53] <Myrtti> ludo2612: can you join #kubuntu now?
[16:53] <nealmcb> proposed factoid:  Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also good for use over ssh.   - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen   The screen-profiles package provides status bars, clocks, notifiers (reboot-required, updates-available), etc
[16:53] <Tm_T> Myrtti: he can
[16:53] <ludo2612> Myrtti, Yes, I can because I am connected with Xchat now
[16:54] <Tm_T> ludo2612: if there's no other issues to be dealt with, please part (:
[16:54] <LjL> nealmcb: i understand you'd like people to know about screen-profiles, but don't you think that's better explained in the wiki page instead of going into detail in the factoid itself?
[16:55] <nealmcb> We'd like to be able to use the factoid in the server channel, where questions about server guis and command-line use come up all the time.    It is nice to highlight ubuntu work on screen like that, we think.
[16:56] <LjL> i can make the factoid behave differently on the server channel
[16:56] <nealmcb> but of course more detail in the wiki, and the package page are the best place
[16:56] <nealmcb> we often point to related info in factoids
[16:56] <LjL> but also considering it's in jaunty and jaunty isn't released, i don't think it's appropriate to state it in the main factoid
[16:57] <nealmcb> is your concern the length?
[16:57] <nealmcb> well, yeah, the support timing is valid....
[16:57] <WikIT> Hello is this thing on?
[16:58] <LjL> the length, and that fact that if we include that sort of information in factoids, then by the same token we should also, say, include information about irssi-proxy (for instance) in the !irssi factoid
[16:58] <LjL> but that's something for the wiki not for the bot
[16:58] <nealmcb> anyway, thanks for starting the wiki page!
[16:58] <LjL> nealmcb: if screen-profiles is especially relevant to screen usage on a server, though, then that's an appropriate use case for a channel-specific factoid
[16:59] <nealmcb> LjL: good point - that would be nice
[16:59] <nealmcb> though a bit confusing at time, I imagine
[17:00] <LjL> !screen-#ubuntu-server is <reply> Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also useful over SSH. The 'screen-profiles' package provides very useful additional utilities. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen
[17:00] <LjL> !no screen is <reply> Screen is a window manager for terminal sessions, also useful over SSH. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Screen
[17:01] <nealmcb> thanks!
[17:04] <LjL> by the way, i've foregone including the "Monitoring for silence and activity" and the part about copying and pasting from http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/3/9/16838/14935 in the wiki page, because the former seems a bit ad-hoc and advanced (that's what man is for), and the latter is doable for most people by using their own terminal emulator's copy-paste capabilities (as long as you know how to scroll back in screen, which i do mention)
[17:05] <LjL> if you think other commands are important enough to be included, go ahead
[17:05] <LjL> also, might want to have a more detailed description of how to use, enable and configure screen-profiles on the page, but i can't help with that
[17:20] <Myrtti> DaemonFC is again heading into trouble
[17:44] <LjjjL> please, someone review the conversation between andresmh and shadeslayer (and later me) in #ubuntu, i still stand that's a destructive command given with no due warnings about its effects
[17:48] <Myrtti> true
[17:51] <LjL> ok and now he's getting on my nerves anyway
[17:56] <nealmcb> bye folks....
[18:07] <Myrtti> debian packaging makes my head hurt
[18:07] <Myrtti> every time
[18:14] <jpds> debian/rules
[18:15] <LjL> ubuntu/sucks
[18:16]  * Tm_T slaps LjL with MS DOS 5.0 User Guide & Reference
[18:16] <Myrtti> jpds: how did you know
[18:17] <jpds> Myrtti: Because it just does? :)
[18:17] <Myrtti> I seriously hate it
[18:17] <Tm_T> Myrtti: what's the problem?
[18:17] <LjL> Tm_T: thanks, i only had the 6.22 and 3.30 ones
[18:17] <Tm_T> (:
[18:17] <Myrtti> I'm trying to package xfce4-clipman-plugin 0.90 for myself according to all the rules
[18:17] <Myrtti> and I'm failing at it
[18:18] <Tm_T> Myrtti: what's the fail?
[18:18] <Myrtti> I need to go get my laundry, bbl
[18:47] <Mez> wtf? brand new laptop, it arrives with a fucked screen
[18:47]  * nalioth hands Mez some soap
[18:47] <Mez> yeah, I realised after i said it.
[18:47] <Mez> Sorry, a little annoyed
[18:47]  * Mez washes his mouth out
[18:48] <Mez> 10-14 days for repair
[19:11] <LjL> how's about we add a factoid for !ekiga?
[19:12] <LjL> it's true that in general it's no use adding factoid for packages when you can just look them up with !info
[19:12] <LjL> but ekiga has got a huge shiny wiki page on help.ubuntu.com
[19:12] <Pici> Then go ahead and add it
[19:18] <Seeker`> Mez: don't you mean "24 hours to deliver a new one"?
[19:27] <LjL> !ekiga is an Internet telephony application included with Ubuntu, which supports the SIP and H323 protocols. Information and help at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Ekiga
[19:28] <topyli> add "NO IT DOESN'T DO STUPID SKYPE" since everyone asks that first :)
[19:29] <jdong> wait then what good is it?
[19:29] <jdong> *ducks*
[19:29] <topyli> don't forget the all caps
[19:29] <topyli> heh
[19:29] <Tm_T> topyli: and "!!111oneone"
[19:29] <topyli> hehe
[19:31]  * Tm_T hugggles her mumble
[19:31] <topyli> hmm the ubuntu wiki doesn't fit on my eeepc's screen
[19:31] <Mez> topyli: hardly any site does
[19:31] <Mez> try google maps :D thats fun!
[19:32] <Tm_T> Mez: untrue
[19:32] <topyli> only those sites that are done right
[19:32] <Tm_T> mostly it's about brainless design
[19:33] <topyli> i'm okay if some columns are left out, but i should get at least the main text
[19:33] <topyli> i can scroll and read the ads later :)
[19:34] <Daft_Punk> I would like to speak to an op please
[19:36] <topyli> Daft_Punk: please ask your question, someone will help you
[19:37] <Daft_Punk> I am continually being harassed by spree, he was banned a while back for his rude behaviour in channel and I told an op what he told me in private, and now he keeps harassing me whenever he comes on, I tried ignoring him but dont know how exactly
[19:37] <Myrtti> hrm
[19:39] <Mez> Daft_Punk: /ignore spree
[19:39] <Mez> Daft_Punk: if it's in PM, there's nothing we can do
[19:40] <Daft_Punk> is that because even if i pasted to you what was said, you cant be 100% sure i didnt fabricate it?
[19:40] <Mez> and if it is in PM, all we can do is tell you to ignore, or point you at #freenode, where the network staff may be able to help
[19:40] <Mez> Daft_Punk: that and it's not up to us to moderate PMs. unless we can see it ourselves, we cant act on it.
[19:40] <Mez> Freenode staff might be able to help you, but they may also say the same as I've just
[19:41] <Daft_Punk> well that doesnt make me feel so great now does it :(
[19:41] <Seeker`> i know it isn't much help, but there isn't really anything we can do to stop him
[19:42] <Mez> I wish we could help in some of the stuff like this
[19:42] <Daft_Punk> right i understand you cant stop PM's because if he is on the server he can PM me
[19:42] <Mez> Daft_Punk: you should be able to just /ignore spree
[19:42] <Mez> and that will stop you recieving PMs from them
[19:42] <Daft_Punk> Mez, i tried that, he can still pm me
[19:43] <stdin> you can try /quote SILENCE spree
[19:43] <Mez> stdin: I believe that only works for channels?
[19:44] <Daft_Punk> * spree :No such nick/channel
[19:44] <Mez> Daft_Punk: does he show in window -> ignore list ?
[19:44] <stdin> Mez: I'm not sure, but I thought it was for /msg too
[19:44] <tonyyarusso> ........
[19:44] <tonyyarusso> bot hates me
[19:44] <Mez> @login
[19:44] <Seeker`> @login
[19:44] <tonyyarusso> @login
[19:44] <tonyyarusso> login doesn't work in PM I guess?
[19:44] <Mez> hehe
[19:44] <Seeker`> !prayer ~= /language or/language, or/
[19:44] <Mez> should do, I dunno though
[19:45] <stdin> why the comma?
[19:45] <Mez> !prayer
[19:45] <Daft_Punk> Mez, no, i personally put though *!*@hisip and spree@*!*
[19:45] <tonyyarusso> stdin: Because that's how lists are supposed to read.
[19:45] <stdin> tonyyarusso: unless there's a joining word, eg: and/or
[19:45] <Mez> Daft_Punk: from the "add"?
[19:45] <tonyyarusso> Otherwise you create confusion if any of your list items are compound.
[19:45] <Mez> that should probably do it then
[19:45] <Daft_Punk> Mez, right
[19:45] <tonyyarusso> stdin: No, ALWAYS.
[19:45] <Mez> xchat has a weird convention for adding stuff to ignore lists
[19:45] <Daft_Punk> well he still PM me like 10 minutes ago
[19:45] <stdin> tonyyarusso: then blame my english teacher
[19:46] <tonyyarusso> stdin: Oh believe me, I will.
[19:46] <Mez> Daft_Punk: now he's in that list, he shouldnt be able to anymore
[19:46] <Daft_Punk> Mez, if i was to msg someone that is ignored, can they get my  msg?
[19:46] <Mez> they should, but your client may place restrictions on that
[19:46]  * tonyyarusso mutters something about half the planet being misinformed about grammar rules, because someone decided "lots of other people do it" was equivalent to "it's right"
[19:47] <stdin> ^ or because english teachers are dumb
[19:47]  * Mez agrees with tonyyarusso
[19:47] <Daft_Punk> i am so confused, i thought this was a help channel
[19:47] <Mez> Daft_Punk: ?
[19:47] <Daft_Punk> what's with the religion stuff
[19:47] <Mez> It's the operator channel.
[19:47] <Seeker`> Daft_Punk: This is a channel for operators to deal with people that have problems in ubuntu channels
[19:48] <Seeker`> Daft_Punk: We also manage factoids here
[19:48] <stdin> that's a factoid from the bot, which we operate
[19:48] <nickrud_> where's my strunk & white?
[19:48] <nickrud_> does lart still work?
[19:48] <Daft_Punk> ok well thanks for helping
[19:48] <stdin> I don't think it's loaded
[19:49] <stdin> nope
[19:50] <nickrud_> all the fun stuff is going away from ubottu. Someone needs to pay for a dedicated dual xenon for him
[19:50] <nickrud_> provide a really nice home
[19:50] <tonyyarusso> What's it running on right now?
[19:51] <Pici> I don't mind throwing ubottu or an ubottu clone on my linode.
[19:52] <tonyyarusso> That's what I was thinking.
[19:52] <tonyyarusso> my Linode normally has a load of zero, or very close to it
[19:53] <nickrud_> those look pretty appealing for a vps
[19:53] <tonyyarusso> They're awesome nickrud_
[19:53] <Pici> My linode has a load of 0 and I'm running irssi,scree, and apache on it currently
[19:53] <Pici> er, scren
[19:53] <Pici> nevermind.
[19:53] <tonyyarusso> If the community or Canonical wanted to spring for the $20/mo we could give it its very own one too.
[19:54] <stdin> @load Lart
[19:54] <Pici> @lart stdin
[19:54] <Pici> :(
[19:54] <stdin> maybe not setup
[19:54] <tonyyarusso> Pici: you have to enable it for the chhannel in addition to loading the module.
[19:55] <stdin> @channel plugins.Lart.enabled
[19:55] <Pici> @login
[19:55] <stdin> @channel plugins.Lart.enabled True
[19:55] <stdin> @lart Pici
[19:55]  * ubottu whacks stdin with the cluebat
[19:55] <tonyyarusso> yay
[19:55] <stdin> backfire
[19:55] <tonyyarusso> @lart stdin
[19:55] <Pici> yay
[19:55]  * ubottu tackles stdin, sits on stdin and starts scratching at stdin's chest
[19:55] <Pici> kinky
[19:55] <stdin> you should obey your master ubottu
[19:55] <tonyyarusso> Who runs the bot these days?
[19:56] <stdin> it's hosted on Jussi's server
[19:56] <stdin> along with a couple clones
[19:56] <stdin> *couple or
[19:56] <stdin> **of
[19:56] <tonyyarusso> stdin: Are the clones still manual,  or do they kick in if it disappears?
[19:56] <stdin> still manual
[19:56] <tonyyarusso> boo
[19:57] <tonyyarusso> Imagine if every op who had a Linode had an ubottu instance and they automatically replaced each other.  :)
[19:57] <tonyyarusso> Even better wouuld be load balancing, but I have no idea how that would work.
[19:58] <stdin> it would probably require a rewrite of the bot, in something less sucky than supybot
[19:58] <tonyyarusso> Yeah
[20:00] <tonyyarusso> You could at least balance the database across different servers than the bot itself, since I think it's just PostgreSQL
[20:01] <Pici> Its sqlite by default.
[20:01] <tonyyarusso> oh
[20:01] <tonyyarusso> Pici: well, does that have the ability to do load-balancing?
[20:01]  * tonyyarusso only actually knows that MySQL does
[20:01] <stdin> "it was like that when I got here"
[20:01] <Pici> tonyyarusso: sqlite is file based, its not a sql server
[20:01] <tonyyarusso> hmm
[20:02] <stdin> one day, I do plan to move to something like MySQL
[20:02] <Pici> It locks records from being read while there is a write operation.
[20:02] <tonyyarusso> That's somewhat sub-optimal.
[20:02] <stdin> to be fair, there aren't many write operations
[20:02] <stdin> only when we edit the factoids or add them
[20:03] <stdin> oh wait, that's not actually right
[20:03] <tonyyarusso> stdin: or remove someone, edit a ban, ettc.
[20:03] <stdin> it keeps a "popularity" score
[20:03] <stdin> tonyyarusso: the ban database is separate from the factoids database
[20:03] <tonyyarusso> stdin: yeah, but is it the same kind?
[20:04] <Pici> stdin: Most of the lock issues have sprung up on the bantracker, when it clears the credentials
[20:04] <stdin> yep, it was sqlite when I took over so it's still sqlite (2)
[20:04]  * jpds wonders how we'll be able to sync the DB for clones with something like MySQL.
[20:04] <stdin> Pici: that's why I do that manually now :(
[20:04] <tonyyarusso> jpds: built-in replication function?
[20:04] <tonyyarusso> otherwise there's always the option to just distribute a dump file.
[20:04] <Mez> jpds: replication ?
[20:04] <jpds> tonyyarusso: No a DB-guy so I dunno.
[20:04] <stdin> jpds: I'm thinking a web interface type thing
[20:05] <stdin> so it can be exported as sqlite/sql file
[20:05] <tonyyarusso> jpds: In short, MySQL has a built-in function for that purpose.  It's called "replication.  :)
[20:05] <stdin> maybe with something like git to generate patches
[20:05] <Pici> I can't imagine that the database is so large that transferring it compressed would be an issue.
[20:06] <stdin> I'd rather not completely break all the sqlite interface, or I'll get random people screaming at me "Why do I have to install MySQL to have ubottu"
[20:06] <stdin> and I can't be bothered with that
[20:07] <tonyyarusso> haha
[20:07] <stdin> Pici: it's not that people want to just sync the database, they also want to keep the new factoids they created and keep edits
[20:07] <Mez> maybe it should be like, a remote database with XMLRPC/REST calls to get the data or store the data, so if it doesnt have it locally, it checks the "server" to see if it's there
[20:08]  * stdin looks for the magic-"do something insanely complicated for me plz"-wand
[20:08] <Mez> stdin: apt-get install python
[20:08] <tonyyarusso> stdin: nobody said "today"
[20:09] <Mez> today
[20:09] <tonyyarusso> Whoop, now they did.  Hope you didn't have any other plans.
[20:09] <stdin> I'll add it to my things-to-add-to-my-todo-list list
[20:11] <stdin> I should think about rewriting all the plugins from scratch sometime
[20:11] <tonyyarusso> Man, I really wish gobby/sobby had the ability to save files to a regular file on the server.
[20:11] <stdin> they look horrible
[20:16]  * nickrud_ waves his magic 'add tasks to others to do list' wand
[20:16] <tonyyarusso> !info gobby jaunty
[20:16] <nickrud_> hm, works at work every time
[20:18] <Mez> !gobby is multiplayer gedit
[20:18] <Mez> @login
[20:29] <Daviey> haha
[20:44] <Seeker`> but IRC is already multiplayer notepad!
[20:48] <tonyyarusso> Seeker`: gedit > notepad
[20:49] <tonyyarusso> and besides, IRC is more like echo someething >> file than notepad file
[20:49] <Seeker`> IRC is more like echo something >> /dev/null
[20:50] <tonyyarusso> pssh, there are logs
[20:50] <Seeker`> yeah, but even fewer people read them than read it in real time :P
[20:53] <Pici> I admit to doing:  tail -f ~/irclogs/freenode/#ubuntu.log   at least once before
[20:53] <ikonia> nothing wrong with that
[20:54] <nickrud_> I search them often; nearly 2 years of almost complete logs at home, taking an idiotically large amount of disk space
[20:55] <Nafallo> talking about disk space...
[20:55] <Nafallo> e2fsck on a 1TB RAID1 isn't funny... :-/
[20:55] <Seeker`> nickrud_: you obviously have a lot of disk space free - fancy giving me some HDDs?
[20:55] <Seeker`> :P
[20:55] <nickrud_> heh. 2 500gb drives, and nothing to spare
[20:56] <nickrud_> I wanted to future proof for at least 6 months on my last purchase
[20:57] <ikonia> nickrud_: poor planning ;)
[20:58] <nickrud_> yeah, I need 4 1tb drives
[20:58] <Seeker`> I need a TB hard drive to back up DVDs
[20:58] <ikonia> Seeker`: I tried that, and I've hit 4TB so far, so I've had to chance approach
[20:59] <ikonia> s/chance/change
[21:06] <Seeker`> ikonia: what was your approach?
[21:07] <ikonia> backup everything to disk - then have the myth server serve everything
[21:07] <Seeker`> how were you backing it up?
[21:07] <ikonia> ran out of disk space for TV with movies, so just backed up "TV stuff" DVD's
[21:07] <ikonia> Seeker`: ripping and encoding x264
[21:07] <Seeker`> how big was a movie?
[21:08] <ikonia> ranged a little bit, but approx 1.4GB
[21:08] <ikonia> on average
[21:08] <Seeker`> i'm ripping them as VOBs
[21:08] <Seeker`> I reckon that I could get most of my film DVDs in 1 TB
[21:08] <ikonia> nice
[21:09] <Seeker`> averages 5GB/ film
[21:10] <ikonia> yeah, I tried pure vob and it turned out at 4.2
[21:10] <ikonia> hence why I started encoding
[21:11] <Seeker`> I dont have that many DVDs
[21:11] <Seeker`> well, there should be enough space for 200 in 1TB
[21:11] <ikonia> I've got a few hundred
[21:11] <Seeker`> and I dont have that many DVD cases :P
[21:15] <Seeker`> I've got ~122 DVDs, not allowing for duplicates
[21:15] <Seeker`> so probably about 115
[21:19] <ikonia> then how do you get that into 2TB ?
[21:19] <ikonia> each DVD is at least 1 Gig ?
[21:20] <Seeker`> 115 * 5 = ?
[21:20] <ikonia> silly me
[21:20] <Seeker`> 2 * 1024 = ?
[21:20] <ikonia> thinking 100GB
[21:20] <Seeker`> heh
[21:21] <Seeker`> I figure that 1TB for films, 1TB for tv series and 1TB for recorded programs would do me nicely
[21:21] <ikonia> you'd be susprised how much you each recording TV
[21:21] <ikonia> I was very
[21:21] <Seeker`> mythtv takes around 2GB/hr
[21:22] <Seeker`> so 1TB = 500 hours
[21:22] <ikonia> yes,about that
[21:22] <ikonia> (well on my box
[21:22] <ikonia> )
[21:23] <Seeker`> 500 hours is a fair amount of TV
[21:23] <Seeker`> about 3 weeks
[21:23] <Seeker`> solidly
[21:25] <Seeker`> 4 hours short of 3 weeks
[21:26] <ikonia> sounds a lot when you say it that time
[21:27] <Tm_T> kids...
[22:22] <ikonia> lemons again
[22:25] <ikonia> @btlogin
[22:25] <topyli> i'm going to either die or kill geeknproud and daemonfc on -ot
[22:25] <topyli> not sure which one
[22:29] <ikonia> can someone look why my damn ban is getting borked when I set it
[22:29] <ikonia> random chars keep appearing
[22:30] <Seeker`> ikonia: where?
[22:30] <ikonia> in #ubuntu
[22:30] <ikonia> ahhh wait
[22:31] <ikonia> for some reasons ! are getting replaced with |
[22:31] <Seeker`> :/
[22:31] <ikonia> I'll reset my client
[22:32] <ikonia> worked
[22:34] <nickrud_> ah, I see why you weren't in a hurry
[22:34] <ikonia> nickrud_: ?
[22:34] <nickrud_> turtles move pretty slowly .
[22:35] <ikonia> touche'
[22:35] <nickrud_>  /rimshot
[22:35] <nickrud_> ikonia, you know that 60's cartoon?  touche turtle?
[22:35] <ikonia> did he have a sword and big hat ?
[22:35] <nickrud_> that's the one
[22:35] <ikonia> I do
[23:04] <Flannel> ubottu: tell felix-da-catz_zz about away


[00:33] <schnoodles> Has Ubuntu/Debian removed ack/ack-grep from the repositories? Is there a better replacement ?
[01:12] <krytarik> schnoodles: It currently doesn't pass the automatic tests in Ubuntu, hence why it wasn't included in 17.10 - see LP bug 1707979.
[01:25] <schnoodles> Ahhh ok. Ah well I just symlinked ag (silversearcher) to ack.
[04:47] <blair_> hey
[04:47] <blair_> you guys are awesome
[04:48] <blair_> you like beef?
[04:48] <blair_> speek
[04:49] <blair_> hey, new one
 Hello Support Group! Is it possible to install XED text editor in Kubuntu 17.10 (failed installing from source, from ppa and from deb package). Your kind help is really appreciated.
[07:13] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:11] <ivychend>  I wonder about which software recieves touchscreen input data in ubuntu, cause that works better than tslib
[10:15]  * lordievader wouldn't be surprised if it goes through libinput
[10:20] <ivychend> is it libinput should be called by an application? It is just a lib
[10:21] <zztopless> greetings one and all...  Just wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of where to download (or add a repo for) Dolphin version 14.12.x (ie not too old, but sans baloo.
[10:38] <lordievader> !info dolphin
[10:39] <hateball> !mint | zztopless
[10:39] <lordievader> Wow, 14.12 is quite old. Is that still KDE 4?
[10:39] <hateball> (they are crossposting in #kde)
[11:17] <zztopless> lordievader: no idea
[11:17] <zztopless> but it is sans baloo and I can search properly
[11:18] <zztopless> like if I want to see all the images in a folder and all of it's subfolders, * works again
[11:18] <lordievader> Considering 17.04 is current-ish... 14.x is old.
[11:19] <zztopless> crank up the preview size and it's like you're watching your porn collection for the first time there's so much!
[11:19] <zztopless> logic! :P
[11:19] <lordievader> Anyhow, if you are running mint I suggest to ask around in #linuxmint-help on irc.spotchat.org.
[11:19] <zztopless> 14.04 is still used by a large percentage if it's not he majority, I would put money on a plurality
[11:20] <zztopless> yeah, I'm usually there too, but this was more of a kde thing and #kubuntu is on here too which is like kde-mint but, like not also
[11:21] <lordievader> Ubuntu 14.04 sure. And it still gets security updates. But I was actually talking about dolphin 14.x
[11:21] <zztopless> I really do enjoy my 10:30pm sundowning
[11:21] <zztopless> ahh, that certainly makes more sense from context :/
[11:22] <zztopless> It honestly doesn't look THAT far back in terms of the design language, but how much of that is from the kde's theming system affecting it's look
[11:27] <zztopless> can't find anyone useful in my ff history on the mint vm, or on ff or chrome on my windows host
[11:28] <zztopless> oh, yeah, this is for my new lubuntu vm, the built in file browser on that thing sucks
[13:32] <haroon_> Hello eveyone I installed ubuntu on a fujitsu u772 and I'm can't get bluetooth to work. It says under the Bluetooth  settings, "No Bluetooth found". I'm pretty sure my notebook has bluetooth. I never used it under windows.
[13:37] <haroon_> I also can't enable it in setting and the bluetooth manager can't do anything either.
[13:40] <hateball> haroon_: does the machine have a hardware switch?
[13:40] <hateball> haroon_: is bluetooth listed if you run "lsusb"
[14:08] <Yuvi> Is there a way to have KUbuntu sent to me physically?
[14:08] <Yuvi> Like on a compact disk?
[14:10] <hateball> Yuvi: Does not look that way
[14:11] <hateball> Yuvi: Not an official way, that is. There's probably third parties selling USB sticks
[14:11] <Yuvi> Okay. Thank you
[14:11] <Yuvi> I have already started downloading the file for me but I would like to send one to my cousin
[14:11] <Yuvi> Just thought there would be a way
[14:12] <Yuvi> And one other question.
[14:13] <Yuvi> Will I be able to install Microsoft Office onto the Ubuntu platform?
[14:26] <lordievader> There is Wine... don't think there is any official Microsoft support for Office on Linux. You might want to checkout Libreoffice.
[14:26] <lordievader> !info libreoffice
[14:27] <hateball> lordievader: well they left after asking, so
[14:28] <lordievader> Hmm, I don't see his quit message.
[14:31] <denis-root> hello
[14:32] <hateball> Hello
[14:57] <haroon_> hateball: I can't see it, if I use lsusb, but I think its integrated. And there is no hardware switch for the bluetooth. https://ptpb.pw/0lJu
[14:58] <hateball> haroon_: check with "lspci" also, if it is attached to that bus
[14:58] <hateball> usually is usb tho
[14:59] <haroon_> hateball: Can't see it there either. https://ptpb.pw/piPb
[15:00] <haroon_> But I'm like 99% sure every u772 has bluetooth integrated stockwise
[15:01] <hateball> haroon_: cant see any wifi chip in there either
[15:02] <hateball> ah there, a realtek one
[15:02] <hateball> such verbose output ;p
[15:03] <hateball> haroon_: not disabled in bios? ;d
[15:04] <haroon_> hateball: It should be enabled in the bios, since its coupled with the wifi adapter. But I will reboot and look.
[15:04] <haroon_> hateball: brb
[15:08] <haroon_> hateball: Everything is enabled in the bios.
[15:08] <hateball> hmmm
[15:09] <hateball> I don't really have much to suggest then
[15:09] <hateball> haroon_: which release is this?
[15:11] <haroon_> Linux U772 4.13.0-16-generic #19-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 11 18:35:14 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[15:13] <hateball> hmmm
[15:13] <hateball> haroon_: afraid I am out of ideas atm :/
[15:13] <haroon_> hateball: Thanks for your assistance.
[15:20] <hateball> hopefully a wiser person than me will come along shortly
[15:24] <R13ose> How do I make the boot background stay all the time?
[15:58] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[16:46] <R13ose> Any thoughts on my question?
[16:48] <zztopless> As your desktop background?
[16:52] <R13ose> zztopless: boot screen
[16:55] <zztopless> Your best bets would be to get as good a quality photo of it and run it through google image search to see if it is in the wild (very good chance I would have thought), or just email the developers.
[16:56] <R13ose> How does that add the photo to the boot screen?
[16:57] <zztopless> ahh, lol
[16:58] <zztopless> I mis-read you as wanting whatever the boot image is to also use as your desktop wallpaper..
[16:59] <zztopless> I can only say in my defense that it's 4am
[17:04] <R13ose> 1pm here
[17:06] <zztopless> Hate to tell you the the future isn't any brighter up ahead here
[17:12] <R13ose> zztopless: why?
[17:21] <zztopless> The Delorians still don't fly!
[17:22] <R13ose> So
[17:27] <R13ose> zztopless: nothing to do with my question
[17:43] <zztopless> R13ose: it was just a poor attempt at a funny.. Implying that being in a further ahead time zone being a form of time travel...
[17:48] <R13ose> Okay.  Back to my question
[17:55] <Guest87220> hi, anyone know how to disable touchpad completely on kubuntu 17.10_
[17:55] <Guest87220> please
[17:59] <Guest87220> anyone there?
[18:00] <krytarik> Sure, just have a bit patience.
[18:00] <Guest87220> oh, sorry
[18:02]  * D0U91E is googling "disable touchpad kubuntu" for Guest87220
[18:02] <Guest87220> the thing is I have a thinkpad and I only use the trackpoint
[18:03] <D0U91E> https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPxaLr-p3XAhVRImMKHYT3BgUQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Faskubuntu.com%2Fquestions%2F193376%2Fdisable-touchpad-while-typing&usg=AOvVaw3k2-NDjsGIOK3s10LE-M5w
[18:04] <D0U91E> Guest87220, hmm not as apparent as I thought... but I do remember seeing it in 17.04 of 17.10
[18:04] <D0U91E> or
[18:06] <D0U91E> Guest87220, your here - I found what I was looking for and need you to try solution as I have no touch pad on this computer
[18:06] <Guest87220> tell me
[18:06] <D0U91E> Guest87220,  go into system setting and search for touchpad
[18:06] <Guest87220> ok
[18:07] <D0U91E> there I believe you can disable but I have nothing to try on it is all greyed out for me...
[18:07] <D0U91E> Guest87220, keep me posted I have to run but am waiting to see that you are good
[18:09] <Guest87220> I cannot disable from there completely
[18:09] <D0U91E> shitty :(
[18:09] <Guest87220> Only while typing or when I plug another mouse, but not the trackpoint
[18:09] <Guest87220> strange
[18:10] <D0U91E> welcome to linux I guess - oh so strange but oh so fun when it works...
[18:10] <Guest87220> yes hehe
[18:11] <Guest87220> I mean, it's quite simple on cinnamon I was using for a while
[18:11] <Guest87220> no ofense, please
[18:11] <D0U91E> Guest87220, I have seen it elsewheere in a config file hidden away somewhere... that is why I remembered or it stuck out is system setting...
[18:12] <D0U91E> No offence... we would be foolish to think one distro is good for every person...
[18:12] <D0U91E> there is good and bad in all of them.
[18:12] <zztopless> Guest87220: Is disabling it semi-permanently acceptable?
[18:12] <D0U91E> zztopless, nice - what did you find?
[18:13] <Guest87220> I really want to move to kubuntu, but I had to solve this
[18:14] <Guest87220> not acceptable, since I only use the trackpoint and I move the cursor all the time
[18:14] <zztopless> If it was me and there was no software solution I would carefully pull the ribbon cables (the most common connection there is thin rubbon connections) out at the trackpad end
[18:14]  * D0U91E wonders what the definition of semi-permanently means?
[18:15] <Guest87220> zztopless: good idea...
[18:15] <D0U91E> on my mom's she taped an old credit card over it on here windows laptop.
[18:15] <D0U91E> here her
[18:15] <zztopless> actually, depending on the layout, and if the trackpad has it's own ribbon connection tot he MB that would be more accessible than getting to under the trackpad.
[18:16] <zztopless> nice
[18:16] <D0U91E> ok guys and gals nice chat but coffee is over - see you later...
[18:17] <zztopless> yeah, those trackpoints feel like the worst idea ever at first compared to the nice big easy trackpad.  But if you stuck with them, you become a ninja is a see of regulars
[18:17] <zztopless> later
[18:17] <D0U91E> zztopless, good thinking thanks for chiming in... Guest87220 look forward to seeing you again with a better nick (lol) good luck
[18:18] <zztopless> no worries
[18:18] <krytarik> Guest87220: https://askubuntu.com/questions/65951/how-to-disable-the-touchpad
[18:18] <Guest87220> OH! Good news! I just have to set to ignore TPPS/2 IBM TrackPoint
[18:18] <Guest87220> Voilà
[18:18] <zztopless> years of spilling shot on my kb
[18:18] <zztopless> and opening up to dry
[18:18] <zztopless> awesome!
[18:19] <Guest87220> Well, good bye and thank you! I have a kubuntu to install now! ;)
 schatzi, ich hab druck, mach was
[18:31] <bytebites> list
[19:47] <heinkel_111> hello
[19:49] <heinkel_111> when doing apt-get update i get error messages because once upon a time ago i installed a package that installs google earth
[19:49] <heinkel_111> it did not work, i removed it, but apt-get update keeps looking for the repository that was added
[19:49] <heinkel_111> how to remove it ?
[19:50] <heinkel_111> is seems to be not in /etc/apt/sources.list but in a separate file inside /etc/apt/sources.list.d
[19:50] <heinkel_111> is it just to remove the google related entries in this folder?
[19:51] <krytarik> Yep.
[19:52] <heinkel_111> so it is not put there by some program (some part of the apt system)
[19:53] <mparillo> And if you are not that comfortable with the konsole, you can remove the repo using Discover
[19:55] <heinkel_111> I am quite comfortable with the konsole but that does not mean I know all the ins and outs of the different programs that I can operate with the konsole :)
[20:00] <mparillo> In Discover I click on Settings in the lower left, then More ... under the Settings graphic, Software Sources in the drop-down, enter your sudo password and click on the Other Software tab. If you see anything you do not like there just uncheck the box.
[20:00] <mparillo> Only worry is that if you have google chrome and google earth, they may share the same Software Source, and you will lose your chrome updates.
[20:12] <R13ose> I have 3/4 of my screen is white, how do I fix this?
[20:29] <R13ose> Any help with my question?


 Shower time!
[09:36] <popey> morning
[09:36] <brobostigon> morning popey
[09:37] <daubers> How
[09:39] <christel> omnom
[09:39] <christel> popey: your new kitty is very cute
[09:40] <popey> :)
[09:43] <MartijnVdS> Nyancat!
[09:45] <daubers> christel: Did you just eat the popeycat?
[09:45] <christel> haha
[09:45] <christel> sssh! ;)
[09:56] <Neoti_Laptop> hey peeps... can anyone recommend a good SIP Router, what i mean by router is something like opensips thats takes the SIP messages and routes them to an asterisk server based on load etc.... i have asterisk set up in the back end but on the front end i want some thing to load balance requests to differant servers.... i dont want the router to get involved in media just sip set up etc.....?
[09:59] <bigcalm> I want a kitten!
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> Neoti_Laptop: so.. a SIP load balancer?
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: talk to popey :)
 Yes. :)
[10:00] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I have a feeling that he won't want to give up the kitten he's just aquired
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: he might be able to hook you up with a kitten provider
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> a purveyor of felines
[10:01] <SuperEngineer> nomnom - kitten & chips!
[10:01] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: kittens aren't hard to find
[10:02] <SuperEngineer> bigcalm: but they are hard to cook!
[10:02] <SuperEngineer> [morning peeps]
[10:06] <christel> they are? i can't say i've tried
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> christel: they won't stay put
[10:07] <christel> ah yes.. weigh them down perhaps?
[10:11]  * SuperEngineer imagines popeycat now running to a hiding hole
[10:11] <gord> getting replacement keys for my thinkpad is really tricky... i thought i'd be able to go on amazon and get a bag of random keys for a few quid or something
[10:11] <MartijnVdS> gord: replacement keys? you locked yourself out?
[10:11] <gord> of my thinkpad house?
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> well a "pad" is a name for a house
[10:13] <MartijnVdS> "This is my think-pad"
[10:14] <MartijnVdS> "But I misplaced the keys"
[10:14] <gord> this joke isn't really working is it? ;)
[10:14]  * gord sounds the abandon joke alarm
[10:15] <MartijnVdS> :(
[10:16] <SuperEngineer> darn! just as I was about to do the "lost private key" becoming a "found public key" front door joke!
[10:17] <MartijnVdS> :)
[10:17]  * SuperEngineer cancels facebook party invite to gord's house
[10:19] <AlanBell> morning all
[10:20] <AlanBell> oh come round to my house instead then
[10:20] <AlanBell> no failed jokes here
[10:20] <jacobw> morning AlanBell
[10:20] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1824/detail/
[10:20] <Seeker`> AlanBell: careful, someone might turn up!
[10:20] <AlanBell> yes, please do!
[10:21] <Seeker`> AlanBell: you're one of the crazy hampshire people?
[10:21] <AlanBell> nonononono
[10:21] <AlanBell> surrey
[10:21] <AlanBell> and crazy, yes
[10:22] <Seeker`> thats no closer :P
[10:22] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell - "still crazy after all these years"
[10:27] <gebbione> what is a good way to see if a program is running and with what options?
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> gebbione: 'ps' can do it
[10:27] <gebbione> true i ll run a watch
[10:27] <MartijnVdS> but programs can change the string ps shows
[10:29] <gebbione> yea the string is plain :/
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> gebbione: what are you trying to do?
[10:36] <gebbione> MartijnVdS, as a linux user i have problems with silverlight streams on akamai, and most important dont know a way to save the streams into a file for later viewing
[10:36] <gebbione> one of the sites that uses silverlight is rai.tv
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> that's sort of the point of using silverlight -- making saving harder :)
[10:36] <gebbione> there is a firefox plugin that uses mplayer
[10:37] <gebbione> but it does not give a save option
[10:37] <gebbione> sure, i agree with that only if the streams worked well natively
[10:37] <gebbione> the problem is that they dont
[10:38] <gebbione> and i have to look for workarounds for watching them and with these workaround sometimes they dont work
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> gebbione: do you have the URL of the stream? (mms probably?)
[10:46] <gebbione> the html that builds the video object is not so straight forward to read
[10:46] <gebbione> in the network i see. ..
[10:46] <gebbione> http://adlev.neodatagroup.com/ad/sipra.jsp?loc=rtv_societa^rtv_ballaro_3_1_rect^300x100^^jquery&bt=n&wt=n&jsfuncno=bf1340534699705523(true)&jsfunc=bf1340534699705523(false)&rnd=901161413710&_=1340534699706
[10:57] <jacobw> ~500ms latency today :(
[11:01] <jacobw> hey hamitron
[11:01] <hamitron> hi :)
[11:11] <SuperEngineer> see you all later folks.  Formula1 brmmm brmmms coverage started ;)
[11:12] <hamitron> ty for reminder
[11:12] <hamitron> bbl
[11:12] <hamitron> :)
[11:12] <SuperEngineer> hamitron: np enjoy
[11:26] <MartijnVdS> F1!
[11:27] <Seeker`> HD F1!
[11:31] <MartijnVdS> yay
[12:08] <mattt> afternoon
[12:27] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: see that pit stop? 2.9 seconds?!
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: when? :)
[12:29] <MartijnVdS> I saw a 6.x second one
[12:32] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: Hamiltons
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> ah
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> yeah McLaren are quick
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> whoa
[12:43] <Seeker`> MartijnVdS: whoa at senna?
[12:43] <MartijnVdS> yea
[13:06] <MartijnVdS> can someone bring some valium to the commentary box please?   Hamilton had some room to move over.
[13:49] <Seeker`> He could have moved over, but he didn't leave the racing line
[13:49] <nperry> But then again I'm not a fan of Hamilton.. I don't like his driving attitude.
[13:49] <Seeker`> He has no obligation to move off the racing line to let someone else in
[13:49] <Seeker`> Hamilton has been far more mature this year
[13:50] <nperry> Yeah but i still remember last year, I give him that this year has been better.
[13:52] <Seeker`> he's been a different person this year imo
[13:58] <s-fox> Hi :)
[14:09] <jacobw> hey fox
[14:11] <jacobw> lo SuperEngineer
[14:15] <SuperEngineer> lo2u jacobw
[14:20] <SuperEngineer> Microsoft Blocks FSF Donation Website As a 'Gambling Site'
[14:20] <SuperEngineer> http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/24/1325241/microsoft-blocks-fsf-donation-website-as-a-gambling-site?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29
[14:20] <SuperEngineer> [sorry - should have short-url'd that]
[14:21] <penguin42> haha
[14:25] <gord> more realisticly, automated bot makes mistake, slashdot puts another layer of tinfoil on their crazy hats
[14:25] <RaycisCharles> SuperEngineer: another example of how Slashdot trolls for pageviews.
[14:25] <RaycisCharles> gord, exactly.
[14:25] <RaycisCharles> Accidentally blocking sites happens all the times when maintaining content filter blacklists.
[14:25] <SuperEngineer> slashdot = slashtrot ;)
[14:26] <SuperEngineer> keep an eye on newsfeed few the occasional gem tho - like that little foopah
[14:26] <RaycisCharles> Also, who cares about the FSF anyway? It's like finding out the cops busted a lemonade stand.
[14:26] <SuperEngineer> RaycisCharles: now who's the troll!!!
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> RaycisCharles: u?
[14:27] <RaycisCharles> I'm a Windows/VMWare sys architect, what do you expect?
[14:27]  * SuperEngineer guffaws
[14:28] <SuperEngineer> [& passes on his pity]
[14:31] <RaycisCharles> Yes, I wish I knew how to architect technologies as usable, capable and popular as Ubuntu and KVM.
[14:53] <s-fox> Hi jacobw , sorry didn't see ping because missed the s on my irc nick :)
[14:53] <s-fox> How is everyone?
[14:53] <AlanBell> hi s-fox
[14:53] <s-fox> Hi AlanBell  :)
[15:06]  * penguin42 is rather sleepy today
[16:15]  * bigcalm returns
[16:15] <mgdm> o/
[16:23] <daubers> Lawn mowed with only one medical incident!
[16:24] <penguin42> to whom?
[16:24] <mgdm> the grass :(
[16:24] <daubers> Me. Burnt myself on the exhaust while changing the cutting height
[16:24] <mgdm> eep
[16:25] <penguin42> daubers: You know the problem there don't you?
[16:25] <daubers> penguin42: No?
[16:25] <penguin42> daubers: You've got a mower with an exhaust
[16:26] <daubers> penguin42: Heh :) I borrowed one as it was a bit of a jungle! Leccy mower would have struggled
[16:33] <bigcalm> mgdm: ta for the single char last night. It allowed me to write a script for updating a WordPress database after it has been moved to a new domain (bloomin' serialised arrays as table variables)
[16:34] <mgdm> bigcalm: cool - glad it helped
[16:41] <DJones> Afternoon all
[17:28] <alexcockell> Hi all...
[17:39]  * bigcalm throws his code onto his ranty blog for people to mock :)
[17:42] <DJones> Hows the new phone bigcalm
[17:43] <mgdm> bigcalm: show me :)
[17:53] <bigcalm> mgdm: http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/24/updating-a-wordpress-database-with-new-domain-details/
[17:53] <bigcalm> DJones: very pleasing :)
[17:54] <DJones> I'm jealous, probably going with that one in November, unless something better comes along
[17:54] <bigcalm> mgdm: it requires a lot of refactoring, but it works :)
[17:57] <bigcalm> Afternoon, popey
[17:58] <bigcalm> DJones: Hayley doesn't like me having a new phone. She's now looking to replace hers
[17:59] <popey> hello
[18:00] <DJones> bigcalm: We're the same, Emma has been looking at phones for the last 6 months despite our contracts running until November
[18:00] <mgdm> afternoon popey
[18:01] <bigcalm> mgdm: no mocking? :P
[18:01] <mgdm> bigcalm: not reafd yet, on the phone :)
[18:02] <bigcalm> Fair enough :)
[18:06] <bigcalm> Yikes, it's gone 7pm
[18:07] <mgdm> every time I go to write a blog post I end up fiddling with the CSS instead
[18:07] <mgdm> bah
[18:07] <bigcalm> Hehe
[18:08] <bigcalm> One of the reasons why I use an existing CMS and theme
[18:08] <mgdm> Mine's all custom now
[18:08] <bigcalm> I started out that way
[18:08] <mgdm> well, the HTML is - it's generated by Jekyll, which I didn't write
[18:08] <mgdm> it entertains me to have to type 'make' to rebuild my blog
[18:09] <bigcalm> o.O
[18:10] <alexcockell> Curious as to why IRC throws me out..
[18:11] <bigcalm> Maybe it wants you to have a productive life ;)
[18:11] <mgdm> Yeah, that 'peer' guy is big on productiviy
[18:12] <bigcalm> Question
[18:12] <mgdm> Answer
[18:12] <bigcalm> Retort
[18:12] <mgdm> Counter Retort
[18:12] <bigcalm> Which will make me more productive tonight? a) ale, b) wine
[18:13] <mgdm> Observation that you create a vacuum
[18:13] <bigcalm> I'd have to trawl bash.org to find more of that conversation
[18:13] <mgdm> hehe
[18:13] <mgdm> and as to your question, I have no idea
[18:13] <bigcalm> Och
[18:14] <mgdm> Aye the noo?
[18:14] <bigcalm> If you insist :)
[18:14]  * bigcalm goes to eat left over enchiladas instead
[18:15] <bigcalm> Old Elpaso make it look as though I'm a really good cook
[18:15] <alexcockell> LOL
[18:15] <alexcockell> Oh - who else is unaffected but watching the Natwest debacle?
[18:16] <DJones> alexcockell: I'm affect at work, can't access info on our accounts for the last 2 working days
[18:17] <alexcockell> Ah.
[18:17] <alexcockell> Been reading the followign Register thread about it - http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/4/2012/06/22/rbs_natwest_outage_fourth_day/
[18:20] <penguin42> someone there must have been having an awful week
[18:23] <alexcockell> yup..
[18:23] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Updating a WordPress database with new domain details - http://www.myrant.net/2012/06/24/updating-a-wordpress-database-with-new-domain-details/
[18:43] <DJones> Has the wendyball finished yet?
[18:45] <penguin42> don't think so yet
[18:45] <DJones> Damm
[18:45] <penguin42> TV this summer is mostly going to be complete balls
[18:46] <penguin42> footballs, tennis balls, and various types of olympic balls
[18:46]  * bigcalm returns
[18:48]  * DJones wonders at times if he's the onle male in the UK that couldn't give a monkey's about football
[18:48] <DJones> s/onle/only/
[18:48] <penguin42> DJones: Well, there are at least 2 of us
[18:48] <Seeker`> a monekys about what?
[18:48] <Seeker`> never heard of this 'football' :P
[18:48] <DJones> yay, I'm not alone
[19:02] <alexcockell> BBC4's got a Julius Caesar variant running
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> alexcockell: set in "a modern African state", according to the website
[19:04] <ali1234> the UEFI specification makes no sense and contradicts itself :(
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it was written by a committee and Microsoft. What did you expect?
[19:05] <ali1234> i didn't expect any different
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: what's your complaint specifically?
[19:09] <ali1234> section 27.5 says that "The authenticated UEFI variable that stores the key exchange keys (KEKs) can always be read but
[19:09] <ali1234> only be written if: The platform is in user mode and the provided variable data is signed with the current PKpriv;
[19:09] <ali1234> or if The platform is in setup mode."
[19:09] <mgdm> 'KEKs' *snigger*
[19:10] <ali1234> but section 7.2.1 says "If the variable is the global PK variable or the global KEK variable, verify that the signer's
[19:10] <ali1234> certificate chains to the Platform Key."
[19:10] <penguin42> most security docs are like that
[19:10] <ali1234> additionally
[19:12] <ali1234> 27.7.3 says "authenticated UEFI variables that store the signature databases (db, or dbx) can always be read but can only be written if: The platform is in user mode and the provided variable data is signed with the private half of a previously enrolled key exchange key (KEKpriv), or the platform private key (PKpriv);"
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: assume the most restrictive one is true
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> or whatever windows does
[19:13] <ali1234> windows does not have PK or KEK keys
[19:13] <ali1234> it just has certs that are trusted
[19:13] <ali1234> and revoked certs that are not
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> then good luck with this :)
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> don't expect bios builders to build this
[19:14] <penguin42> ali1234: Looked at the code?
[19:14] <ali1234> wait i understand it. "global KEK variable" means the KEK database as a whole
[19:15] <ali1234> yes, i've looked at the code. it follows the less restrictive interpretation
[19:24] <daubers> fds
[19:24] <daubers> stupid ssh sessions
[19:29] <Azelphur> ali1234: did you see ASIC just hit
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:30] <MartijnVdS> if I watch TV on the same transponder/sat as I'm tuned to from my PC, the PC loses 5% signal strength
[19:30] <alexcockell> Ummm - ASIC???
[19:30] <Azelphur> alexcockell: tis bitcoin stuff
[19:31] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: mining asic?
[19:31] <alexcockell> Ah; never been anywhere near that stuff.
[19:31] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea
[19:34] <Laney> can someone try www.nwolb.com please?
[19:35] <Laney> I don't think it is down, but there is something up with SSL here.
[19:35] <Azelphur> Laney: wfm
[19:35] <Laney> on which browser?
[19:35] <Laney> "Error 107 (net::ERR_SSL_PROTOCOL_ERROR): SSL protocol error."
[19:35] <Azelphur> chromium
[19:36] <popey> chrome is fine here
[19:36] <Laney> hmmmmmmmm
[19:36] <mgdm> WFM
[19:36] <Laney> broken on both FF and chromium for me
[19:37] <Laney> quantal.
[19:37]  * Laney sees a ca-certificates update
[19:37] <popey> fine in chromium on quantal here too
[19:38] <Laney> [5674:5695:101097611225:ERROR:ssl_client_socket_nss.cc(1534)] handshake with server www.nwolb.com:443 failed; NSS error code -5938, net_error -107
[19:50] <Laney> get it on both of my machines :(
[19:50]  * Laney fires up a vm
[19:52] <Laney> O_O
[19:52] <MartijnVdS> o_O
[19:54] <popey> O_O
[19:57] <mgdm> ಠ_ಠ
[20:01] <MartijnVdS> (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
[20:02] <dogmatic69> how can I run tcpdump on a remote machine and not have all the stuff showing from the ssh connection streaming the tcpdump
[20:02] <popey> :)
[20:02] <popey> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-monitor-all-network-traffic-except-ssh-port-22/
[20:02] <popey> first hit for "tcpdump exclude ssh" on google :)
[20:02] <dogmatic69> eh
[20:03] <dogmatic69> that site comes up for anything linux related
[20:25] <Daviey> ettercap is another tool that supports regex style limiting
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> tshark/wireshark++
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> capture everything, then ignore the ssh strea
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> m
[20:27] <Daviey> Laney: confirmed, FF and Chrome, up-to-date Quantal.. works here.
[20:28] <Laney> yeah I tried loading it in The Cloud and it worked, but broken on both of my machines
[20:28] <Laney> weird eh
[20:33]  * Laney remembers there is a cheeky macbook air running precise
[20:35] <Laney> … which is also broken in the same way …
[20:35]  * Laney gets suspicious
[20:38] <Daviey> "The Cloud"... i love it.
[20:38] <Daviey> Laney: do a proxy check..
[20:39] <Laney> how?
[20:39] <Laney> I do indeed now suspect skulduggery from vM
[20:39] <Laney> VM
[20:40] <Daviey> Laney: google for "proxy check" :)
[20:41] <Daviey> I've started VPN'ing all my traffic, as i don't really trust my ISP.

[20:42] <Laney> Daviey: I see, you mean like that. Apparently not. I did think that virgin had one, but this site is SSL.
[20:42]  * Laney should do the VPN thing
[20:49] <Daviey> Laney: Squid recently added support for SSL MITM'ling.. whic freaks me out.
[20:49] <Daviey> http://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/SslBump
[20:51] <Laney> Huh, that is scary
[20:51] <Laney> I wonder if employers would have to inform you if they're doing that
[20:52] <ali1234> you can just look at your certificate store
[20:53] <ali1234> if you see "FooCorp certificate for SSL snooping" then you know they are doing it
[20:53] <Laney> yes, most people definitely know to do that
[20:53] <ali1234> if you don't, and they try it, you'll get a big fat "untrusted certificate" warning on any SSL website
[20:54] <ali1234> most people don't understand https to start with and either assume all traffic is secure by default no matter what, or all traffic is insecure by default no matter what
[20:55] <Laney> oh, that's ok then
[20:56] <ali1234> if people don't understand certificates, then they wouldn't understand if the employer told them either
[20:56] <ali1234> so yeah it would be nice of them, but largely pointless
[20:56] <Laney> wtf
[20:56] <Laney> you think it is impossible to express it in a simple way?
[20:56] <ali1234> yes
[20:57] <ali1234> it's impossible to make it simple enough that people would understand it in combination with all the other "simple" guides to internet security out there
[20:57] <ali1234> ie it's impossible to simplify it without making it contradict everything people have previously been told about security
[20:58] <ali1234> the only way to understand it is to actually really understand it properly
[20:58] <Daviey> "To maintain corporate internet useage policy (filtering), and to make best use of our bandwith; we intercept https connections.  This means that we can technically see your 'secure' content - such as online banking"
[20:58] <Daviey> sans typos
[20:58] <dogmatic69> ok, my issue I have been having with server dropping out all the time seems to not be the server but rather my pc :(
[20:59] <ali1234> Daviey: "but the help screen in internet explorer says that https connections cannot be intercepted"
[20:59] <dogmatic69> Tracking traffic with tcpdump, when its breaks there is nothing being sent at all.
[20:59] <daubers> Daviey: YOU'RE screening my interwebz?
[21:00] <Daviey> daubers: Indeedy
[21:00] <daubers> Daviey: So thoes Ninjas... I didn't mean to send them to you....
[21:01] <Daviey> daubers: And i'd share with the rest of the channel what you had been recently looking at.. but it's not family friendly.
[21:01] <Daviey> Those poor goats, is all i can say.
[21:01] <daubers> Daviey: That's your browser history! Not mine
[21:02] <Daviey> daubers: next you'll be saying it was for 'research purposes'.
[21:02] <daubers> Daviey: Maybe it was.....
[21:03] <daubers> Bah, why can't all circuit boards have 0.1mm seperated headers. Would make my life a lot easier
[21:03] <daubers> or 1mm even
[21:03] <daubers> ****OUT OF TEA ERROR****
[21:04] <ali1234> because the standard is 0.1 inched
[21:04] <Daviey> Laney: TBH, if it's a 'work maintained' machine.. i'd expect them to have vnc (or equivalent).. making https almost as insecure.. so it's no massive change.
[21:04] <daubers> ali1234: In this house we respect the laws of thermodynamics and the metric system
[21:05] <Laney> Daviey: Indeed (and that does have to be in a computer code of use AFAIK). It just makes it easier to automate.
[21:07] <Laney> (and to process the results)
[21:08] <ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/playing-with-uefi-secure-boot-part-2-basic-authenticode-signing-with-ms-tools/
[21:09] <em> aren't you guys watching the football?
[21:09] <Laney> sure am
[21:09] <ali1234> NO
[21:10] <daubers> Whatball?
[21:11] <popey> cricket without bats daubers
[21:11] <daubers> popey: Surely that's not legal?
[21:11] <daubers> (although it's been some time since I listened to the cricket I have to admit)
[21:22] <bigcalm> Git people who run private local repos! What's your favourite web interface?
[21:22] <ali1234> gitweb
[21:22] <bigcalm> ali1234: for personal use only, or do you protect bits for members to view stuff?
[21:23] <ali1234> i don't share proprietary code
[21:24] <ali1234> let me put that another way
[21:24] <ali1234> i only share code publicly or not at all
[21:24] <bigcalm> OK
[21:25] <bigcalm> I'm sure I can lock things down with a .htaccess file
[21:25] <jacobw> and england are out :)
[21:25] <diddledan> true to form
[21:26] <diddledan> so is that hodgson out of a job now? :-p
[21:34] <popey> looks like bed time
[22:16] <bigcalm> Is there a web interface to manage merge requests in git?
[22:18] <AlanBell> like github?
[22:18] <bigcalm> AlanBell: yes, like it for privately hosted git repos
[22:18] <AlanBell> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/438163/whats-the-best-web-interface-for-git-repositories
[22:18] <bigcalm> AlanBell: just been there
[22:19] <AlanBell> I was looking there the other day
[22:19] <bigcalm> I have gitweb running, but it only lets you view. Doesn't offer management tools
[22:19] <AlanBell> went with redmine which isn't quite the same thing
[22:20] <bigcalm> gitorious looks nice
[22:23] <bigcalm> Ug, getting tired
[22:25] <ali1234> hmm you know i just noticed that tiano doesn't actually follow the EFI specification
[22:27] <ali1234> quote "If the image’s signature is not found in the authorized database, or is found in the forbidden database, the image will not be started and instead"
[22:27] <ali1234> that isn't true. OVMF will run an image if it is signed with the KEK certificate, even if it's signature is not present in the authorized database (DB)
[22:27] <ali1234> however, it won't run it if it is signed with PK
[22:28] <ali1234> either PK or KEK should allow signatures to be added to the DB
[22:29] <ali1234> the spec says nothing about allowing an image to run if it is signed by an enrolled KEK
[22:29] <ali1234> it also says nothng about disallowing an image that is signed by PK but not KEK
[22:30] <ali1234> it does however say that DB updates may be signed with either KEK or PK
[22:31] <ali1234> so if signing the image with KEK implicitly allows it to run because the signer could have added the sig to DB, then signing it with PK should have the same effect
[22:31] <ali1234> but in the implementation it does not
[22:39] <AlanBell> ali1234: I think it might be a good thing to send some of your investigations to the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>list
[22:40] <ali1234> i will do, when i've got everything straight
[22:40] <AlanBell> great
[22:40] <ali1234> i'm building a set of batch files to automatically generate the keys, certificates, and binaries for the tests
[22:41] <ali1234> you can help by following along and checking i have not made any obvious mistakes
[22:42] <AlanBell> great, but now I am off to bed. Night all o/
[22:55] <bigcalm> Beddybies time :) o/
[23:10] <ali1234> LOL
[23:10] <ali1234> so on page 40 of the efi signing document they attempt to show what happens if you try to run an unsigned efi binary with a screenshot
[23:10] <dogmatic69> Ok, I keep getting something like '<IP_ADDRESS> > <IP_ADDRESS>: ICMP <IP_ADDRESS> udp port 2032 unreachable'
[23:11] <ali1234> except that the screenshot clearly gives the "command not found error" rather than the "access denied" error you get when you actually try it
[23:11] <dogmatic69> after that I can not load web pages from the box via chrome
[23:12] <ali1234> dogmatic69: that's crazy
[23:12] <dogmatic69> anyone know what ICMP is?
[23:12] <ali1234> yes
[23:12] <dogmatic69> :/
[23:12] <dogmatic69> what?
[23:12] <ali1234> it's the packet type used to establish a connection
[23:12] <dogmatic69> ah ok
[23:13] <ali1234> like if you try to connect to an unopen port, the server sends back a "connection refused" message, right?
[23:13] <ali1234> well that message can't be sent over tcp or udp because those require a port
[23:13] <dogmatic69> <IP_ADDRESS> is a blade server I use for web dev at home, its running bind9 catching *.dev and passing anything else
[23:13] <ali1234> and since there is no port, that won't work
[23:13] <dogmatic69> every now and then the site is unavaiable
[23:13] <dogmatic69> and that seems to happen at the exact moment
[23:13] <ali1234> so it is sent using ICMP instead
[23:14] <dogmatic69> ok
[23:14] <dogmatic69> once this connection drops no amount of F5 does anything. there is no tcp traffic at all
[23:14] <dogmatic69> or udp, tcpdump is just quiet
[23:14] <ali1234> i don't use chrome
[23:15] <dogmatic69> then it seems I get http://bin.cakephp.org/view/2003453668
[23:15] <dogmatic69> and it works again
[23:15] <dogmatic69> well the bit after un reachable
[23:15] <ali1234> look at that ARP stuff
[23:15] <dogmatic69> its normally down for 10 20 seconds
[23:15] <dogmatic69> ARP?
[23:15] <ali1234> your blade server is disappearing off the netwrk for no good reason
[23:16] <dogmatic69> well ssh still works
[23:16] <ali1234> who knows?
[23:16] <dogmatic69> I can ls in another terminal
[23:16] <ali1234> also why do you have a blade server in your house?
[23:16] <dogmatic69> for dev
[23:16] <ali1234> what's wrong with just using a normal computer?
[23:17] <ali1234> btw if ARP goes away for some reason established connections persist, just new ones break
[23:17] <dogmatic69> takes up much more space, blades are cheap and its closer to the real deal come deploy time
[23:18] <ali1234> there's a lot of ways that can happen
[23:18] <dogmatic69> hmm
[23:18] <ali1234> and they all involve misconfigured networks
[23:18] <dogmatic69> I have been apt-get removing everything possible
[23:18] <ali1234> for example, mac address conflict or ip address conflict can cause weird stuff like this to happen
[23:18] <ali1234> it won't be caused by a package
[23:18] <dogmatic69> I have mostly everything on a fixed IP
[23:19] <ali1234> it will be caused by something specific that you did, either that or the hardware is faulty
[23:19] <dogmatic69> will look for some conflicts
[23:19] <dogmatic69> Ill try reboot the router then
[23:20] <ali1234> i doubt that will help