[00:05] <dvheumen> lifeless, about the locking behaviour we talked about yesterday. That special case 'LockResult(file:///tmp/testbzr-J2pcy2.tmp/.bzr/branch-lockc4au55ppz8wdym11z1aq)', you can never get this if you install your own hook, right? (i.e. you will only find it if you use _lock_actions directly)
[00:06] <lifeless> dvheumen: you can get it, but only if you install your hook before creating a bzrdir
[00:07] <dvheumen> aha okay, so that's the idea. Okay in that case I'll add that case to the documentation too.
[00:08] <dvheumen> bzrdir is the '.bzr' directory right?
[00:08] <dvheumen> so in essence a newly created checkout/branch/repository
[00:08] <poolie> jelmer: so feed-pqm worked for you, it seems?
[00:09] <spiv> dvheumen: bzrdir is the .bzr directory, yes
[00:09] <jelmer> poolie: no, unfortunately the email it generated in the end was rejected because of the gpg signature
[00:09] <poolie> huh
[00:09] <poolie> the signature was invalid?
[00:10] <lifeless> dvheumen: yes
[00:10] <lifeless> is feedpqm in the bzr-pqm plugin
[00:10] <lifeless> ?
[00:11] <jelmer> poolie: I'm not sure - it's very cryptic in its error messages: "PQMException: 'Failed to verify signature: gpgv exited with error code 1'
[00:11] <jelmer> "
[00:11] <jelmer> lifeless: it's in hydrazine
[00:13] <poolie> jelmer: :/
[00:13] <poolie> what if you pipe it through gpgv yourself?
[00:13] <poolie> could it be that you have multiple secret keys and it's using the wrong one?
[00:14] <jelmer> No, I'm sure this is the right key
[00:14] <jelmer> it seems like it might be related to the from address - does pqm rely on that ?
[00:14] <poolie> i don't know
[00:14] <jelmer> (feed-pqm uses the email address to do a proper CC but it doesn't override the actual from address)
[00:14] <lifeless> jelmer: the key's primary UID *I think*
[00:14] <poolie> that could well be the problem though
[00:14] <lifeless> jelmer: check the code.
[00:15] <lifeless> lp:pqm
[00:15] <poolie> so you could try forwarding the message from the right from address and see what happens
[00:15] <poolie> lifeless: feed-pqm is i presume what you were just asking me about
[00:15] <jelmer> lifeless: Thanks, but I've wasted too much hours of my life in pqm source code already :-)
[00:15] <lifeless> poolie: nope
[00:15] <lifeless> poolie: the queue API stuff you found
[00:16] <poolie> it uses the queue api
[00:25] <lifeless> good
[01:00] <jelmer> poolie: Things seem to work quite a bit better if I use bzrlib's email API
[01:00] <jelmer> poolie: Are you opposed to having hydrazine depend on bzrlib for sending email ?
[01:00] <poolie> nup
[01:00] <poolie> it's probably much better to do that
[01:00] <jelmer> awesome; one mp coming up :-)
[01:01] <poolie> i'd like to teach it to ignore mps from people who can merge their own
[01:01] <poolie> thanks
[01:01] <lifeless> poolie: I think its great to have it  submit other ppls mps ;)
[01:01] <jelmer> poolie: yeah, I agree that'd be nice (except for the current user, of course)
[01:02] <poolie> or we could do that
[01:02] <poolie> but it gets more into 'almost ready' vs 'actually read'
[01:02] <poolie> ready*
[01:21] <mwhudson> jelmer: are you using hydrazine to triage bugs?
[01:21] <mwhudson> because all you comments are coming wrapped in "s
[01:21] <jelmer> mwhudson: yes
[01:21] <jelmer> mwhudson: oops, I was assuming I had to quote arguments to the comment command :-)
[01:21] <jelmer> mwhudson: thanks, I'll avoid that from now on
[01:22]  * jelmer thinks he also added a comment '--help' somewhere
[01:22] <poolie> heh
[01:22] <poolie> is that working again?
[01:22] <poolie> for a while most bug operations were broken because of an etag bug
[01:22] <poolie> but it was marked critical so maybe it's fixed
[01:22] <poolie> i guess adding a comment would still work
[01:22] <jelmer> I did get "precondition" exceptions on some changes
[01:23] <jelmer> other than that it worked quite well
[01:24] <james_w> I think the CP may have gone through today
[01:24] <james_w> but I'm not sure if that was production/edge
[01:44] <poolie> heh, i see your "--help i'm trapped in a bug" message :)
[01:44] <poolie> also for some reason it no longer exits cleanly on ^D
[01:44] <poolie> um
[01:44] <poolie> i'd like to have a way to go into $editor to add a comment
[01:45] <poolie> probably most easily done by calling bzrlib
[02:00] <poolie> igc is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/524162 still open in bzr itself?
[02:02] <igc> poolie: yes. It's waiting on https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ian-clatworthy/bzr/plugin-packaging-524162/+merge/20858 being reviewed and landed
[02:04] <poolie> k thanks
[02:08]  * igc lunch
[02:10] <parthm> poolie: does the bzr-grep textfile.text_file approach for checking binary seem reasonable to you? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr-grep/+bug/531336/comments/4
[02:12] <poolie> parthm: isn't there something in osutils or similar to already do this?
[02:13] <poolie> oh obviously that's what you're doing
[02:13] <parthm> poolie: yes. i am just using a bzrlib implementation.
[02:13] <poolie> yes that looks good then
[02:14] <parthm> poolie: ok. thanks.
[03:39] <poolie> hi igc, lunched?
[04:04] <poolie> igc are you already doing something similar to bug 534320
[04:12] <echo-area> hello, is there any explaination of stacked branches besides the documentation?
[04:13] <echo-area> the secion "using stacked branches" in the bzr manual doesn't explain it well, and many examples in it don't work
[04:16] <spiv> echo-area: those docs are the best I know of, but I'm happy to answer questions here
[04:18] <spiv> echo-area: the primary use case is pushing to a server where a trunk already exists (so most of your branch's revisions are already on the server), but you don't have write access to that repository
[04:19] <spiv> echo-area: so you can push (using the --stacked and --stacked-on options, or specially configure the remote .bzr directory) just the revisions unique to your branch to the server.
[04:20] <spiv> echo-area: launchpad for instance creates those specially configured .bzr directories automatically, so if I push a new branch to ~spiv/bzr/..., it will automatically be stacked on the bzr trunk.
[04:20] <echo-area> spiv: but I can't commit to a stacked branch
[04:21] <spiv> echo-area: yes, unfortunately :(
[04:21] <spiv> That's bug 375013
[04:22] <spiv> We'd like to fix that, but it will be a surprisingly large amount of work :/
[04:22] <spiv> Oh, does the "Using stacked branches" doc suggest that you can commit to a stacked branch?  Eek :(
[04:22] <spiv> That is confusing, I'm sorry.
[04:23] <echo-area> spiv: that's the main source of my confusion.  I've created a stacked branch, by following the documentation, via the command "bzr branch --stacked source branch"
[04:23] <echo-area> spiv: but after making some changes, I can't commit them, nor can I push them.
[04:24] <spiv> echo-area: Right, because of that bug.
[04:24] <spiv> So, if you want to commit, you can't use a stacked branch yet, sorry :(
[04:24] <spiv> I'll submit a clarification to the docs now
[04:25] <spiv> In the meantime you'll probably be better off using a shared repository and unstacked branches.
[04:25] <echo-area> spiv: umm, stack branches aren't usable before we can commit to it, are they?
[04:26]  * fullermd suspects stacking should be rather more hidden...
[04:31] <spiv> echo-area: There are uses for branches that don't involve committing to them
[04:32] <lifeless> and pushing is different to committing
[04:32] <spiv> echo-area: e.g. the scenario I described earlier (pushing to a server that has a suitable repository for stacking-on, but that you do not have permissions to write to)
[04:32] <lifeless> which is in fact why you can't commit to stacked branches.
[04:34] <SamB_XP> I just don't worry too much about stacked branches unless they make things go too slowly when I try and push something to launchpad ...
[05:19] <parthm> hello. i am planning to suggest the lp:parrot owner to upgrade the repo format to 2a. whats the suggested way to upgrade an lp branch. l believe lp:parrot is an svn imported branch.
[05:20] <parthm> https://launchpad.net/parrot
[05:23] <spiv> I think the owner of the branch can click an "upgrade format" button in the web UI now.
[05:25] <parthm> spiv: thanks. i will suggest that.
[05:39] <echo-area> spiv: I have not reproduced that scenario successfully yet.  I did this:
[05:39] <echo-area> bzr init-repo --no-trees test-repo
[05:39] <echo-area> bzr init test-repo/trunk
[05:39] <echo-area> bzr init-repo test-branch
[05:40] <echo-area> bzr branch test-repo/trunk test-branch/trunk
[05:41] <echo-area> cd test-branch/trunk   <-- and work here, commit
[05:42] <echo-area> then I did (in test-branch/trunk)   bzr push --stacked ../../test-repo
[05:43] <echo-area> I got messages like these:
[05:43] <echo-area> Ignoring request for a stacked branch as repository already exists at the destination location.
[05:43] <echo-area> All changes applied successfully.
[05:43] <echo-area> Pushed up to revision 4.
[05:44] <parthm> hmm. i did suggest lp:parrot to upgrade the branch http://groups.google.com/group/parrot-dev/browse_thread/thread/1cc2f0bbb18b76fc
[05:44] <echo-area> but as I made another branch of test-repo/trunk, I didn't see the new revisions unique to test-branch/trunk
[05:45] <parthm> but i see the branch owner listed as 'VCS Imports' https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/parrot/trunk so is the upgrade to be done by the project owner or branch owner?
[05:46] <parthm> lp:parrot project owner is ~parrot-dev while branch owner is ~vcs-imports.
[05:47] <spiv> echo-area: that's not the scenario I was referring to
[05:48] <spiv> echo-area: because in that scenario you can (and did) push directly into the original repo (test-repo)
[05:49] <spiv> echo-area: I'm referring to a case like a server shared by several developers, but only one (or perhaps a non-human system account, like a gatekeeper bot) has access to the integration branch everyone branches off
[05:50] <echo-area> spiv: should I make test-repo a stacked branch, and so that pushing onto it is the same as pushing to the stacked-on branch of test-repo?
[05:50] <spiv> echo-area: e.g. if the trunk is on /srv/project/trunk on a host, and /srv/project is a repo made with init-repo, but you don't have access to write to /srv/project
[05:52] <spiv> echo-area: but you can read from it, so you can do e.g. "bzr branch sftp://host/srv/project/trunk local-branch", work on that, and then push it up with "bzr push sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch --stacked --stacked-on=sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch"
[05:53] <spiv> echo-area: in that case making local-branch will still copy the full history, but you don't have to push the full history back to the server, you use stacking to point to the history the server already has
[05:54] <spiv> (and also you don't waste space on the server by keeping a second copy of the history)
[05:54] <spiv> echo-area: does that make sense?
[05:55] <echo-area> spiv: I'm reading and understanding.  It definitely makes sense.  Thanks
[05:56] <spiv> Cool.  Glad I could help :)
[05:56] <spiv> It's an optimisation that most people don't need, I think.
[07:07] <lifeless> thumper: will lp crash if we set merge proposal queue fields using APIs ?
[07:07] <lifeless> 'try it' is a good answer.
[07:18] <vila> hi all !
[07:23] <echo-area> spiv: please take a look at this, does it elaborate the scenario you mentioned:
[07:23] <echo-area> bzr init-repo test-repo
[07:23] <echo-area> bzr init test-repo/trunk
[07:23] <echo-area> bzr init-repo stacked-repo
[07:24] <echo-area> bzr branch --stacked test-repo/trunk stacked-repo/trunk
[07:24] <echo-area> bzr init-repo local
[07:24] <echo-area> bzr branch test-repo/trunk local/trunk
[07:24] <echo-area> cd local/trunk   <--- work here
[07:24] <spiv> echo-area: it doesn't make much sense to create a stacked branch in a shared repo (i.e. a directory you've made with init-repo)
[07:25] <echo-area> (in local/trunk)  bzr push ../../stacked-repo/trunk
[07:26] <echo-area> spiv: so a stacked branch is better put in its own directory?
[07:26] <spiv> (I guess I can imagine uses for it, but it's certainly not how I would choose to explain it)
[07:26] <spiv> echo-area: I'd ignore init-repo entirely, really
[07:27] <spiv> echo-area: (for explaining how stacking works, not in general)
[07:28] <spiv> I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly.
[07:29] <spiv> I guess you're trying to test your understanding of stacking by constructing a scenario that uses it?
[07:33] <echo-area> spiv: in your last example, "bzr push sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch --stacked --stacked-on=sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch", are the following statements true or not?  1) sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch contains the full history too; 2) only the local revisions that have not been synced will be transfered during that push, the previous history will come from my-branch on host; and 3) full history will be tran
[07:33] <echo-area> sfered in a normal push.
[07:34] <echo-area> spiv: kind of.  I want to figure out the things not explained explicitly in your example, hoping to help myself fully understand stacked branches
[07:37] <spiv> 1) no, it only contains the history not in the stacked-on location (plus some small overhead), b) yes, only the history not already in sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch and not already in its stacked-on location is pushed, 3) it depends; full history is transferred in a normal push when there is no shared repository (or that shared repository is empty or otherwise contains none of the relevant history)
[07:38] <echo-area> spiv: so sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch is a stacked branch too?
[07:39] <spiv> To clarify for 3, I mean a normal *initial* push.  Obviously subsequent pushes to the same branch don't have to re-transfer data that was already transferred.
[07:39] <spiv> echo-area: what do you mean "too"?  I think that's the only stacked branch in my example.
[07:40] <spiv> echo-area: oh, I see I made a silly typo in my example
[07:40] <spiv> echo-area: that command ought to have been "bzr push sftp://host/home/myuser/my-branch --stacked --stacked-on=sftp://host/srv/project/trunk"
[07:40] <spiv> echo-area: I guess that was rather confusing!
[07:41] <echo-area> spiv: should be  bzr push --stacked --stacked-on=sftp://host/srv/project/trunk sftp://host/myuser/myproject, right?
[07:42] <spiv> echo-area: right
[07:42] <echo-area> spiv: whoa, I think I understand that now.  Thank you!
[07:45] <echo-area> spiv: I think your example is the one that clarifies much about stacked branches.  Maybe you can add it to the documentation.  What do you think?
[07:46] <spiv> echo-area: or you could :)
[07:46] <spiv> Patches are always welcome :)
[07:47] <spiv> More seriously, I'm finishing up for the day, and will likely to have forgotten by tomorrow, so please file a bug asking for that, feel free to paste my IRC comments into it.
[07:48] <echo-area> spiv: okay, let me try to write one.  I'll do what you said.  Thank you very much.
[07:48] <spiv> echo-area: Btw, <https://code.launchpad.net/~spiv/bzr/stacked-commit-doc-update/+merge/21024> is the patch I wrote to that doc earlier.
[07:49] <echo-area> spiv: ok
[07:49] <spiv> echo-area: thank you, feedback on docs are very welcome, and offers to write them even more so!
[08:10] <thumper> lifeless: I don't advise it
[08:45]  * igc dinner
[09:21] <lifeless> thumper: is staging sufficient to tell if its a problem?
[09:22] <thumper> lifeless: probably, but what are you trying to accomplish?
[09:22] <lifeless> thumper: streamline landing stuff
[09:24] <thumper> lifeless: I can't guarantee it won't be a problem
[09:24] <thumper> lifeless: but staging should be good enough
[09:25]  * lifeless makes a memo
[09:27] <thumper> lifeless: if I lock a working tree for writing, does that take a lock on the branch as well?
[09:45] <lifeless> thumper: yes
[09:45] <lifeless> thumper: lock_tree_write will lock the tree only (and take a read lock on the branch)
[09:46] <thumper> lifeless: I'm trying to write a test that uses a working tree
[09:46] <thumper> lifeless: and I want some files in that working tree
[09:47] <thumper> is build_tree_contents the right thing to use?
[09:47] <thumper> it doesn't seem to take enough params
[09:47] <thumper> using TestCaseWithTransport
[09:47] <lifeless> self.build_tree_contents([(path1, content1), (path2, content2)])
[09:47] <lifeless> there are a few similar thigns
[09:48] <lifeless> if you want versioned files, you need to also add them
[09:49] <thumper> lifeless: does that only work if you use make_branch_and_tree with '.'?
[09:49] <thumper> lifeless: also, where are the internal methods for working out if a fileid is a directory? or binary?
[09:49] <lifeless> thumper: just adjust the paths
[09:49] <thumper> ok
[09:50] <lifeless> tree.inventory[fileid].kind - internalish
[09:50] <lifeless> tree.kind() or something like that - public
[09:50] <thumper> ta
[09:52] <vila> thumper: alternatively, you can provide a transport to build_tree_contents, damn, no, you can't, that works for build_tree only, shame
[09:52] <vila> but if you're ok with arbitrary content and have a tree from make_branch_and_tree, you can then use transport=tree.bzrdir.root_transport and you don't need to prefix your paths anymore
[09:53] <thumper> I'm having trouble finding the options for return values for tree.kind()
[09:54] <lifeless> vila: if you want arbitrary, MutableTree.set_file_content is better
[09:54] <vila> thumper: 'file', 'directory', 'symlink', 'absent'
[09:54] <lifeless> thumper: osutils._kind IIRC
[09:55] <thumper> it'd be really helpful if that was part of the docs for the method :)
[09:56] <thumper> someone told me that bzrlib uses looks for a null withing 'x' amount of the content to determine if a file is binary
[09:56] <lifeless> thumper: patches loved
[09:56] <thumper> is that method public(ish)?
[09:56] <lifeless> yes
[09:56] <lifeless> tis in osutils
[09:56]  * thumper looks again
[09:59] <vila> lifeless: set_[file_]content ENOTFOUND
[10:01] <lifeless> vila: meh; look at MemoryTree using tests.
[10:02] <vila> thumper: bzrlib/textfile.py ?
[10:04] <lifeless> ah yes
[10:04] <lifeless> thumper:  ^
[10:04] <thumper> ta
[10:04] <thumper> reading now
[10:14] <lifeless> vila: sanity check: bzrlib.textfile.check_text_path is bust
[10:14] <lifeless> vila: or perhaps just unclear
[10:15] <vila> lifeless: as in not mentioning that it checks the *content* of the path ?
[10:16] <lifeless> well
[10:16] <lifeless> looking at it, it looks like it calls a generator and discards it
[10:16] <lifeless> which isn't generally useful
[10:17] <spiv> It calls an iterator and discards it, but happily the constructor of the iterator contains the relevant check.
[10:17] <lifeless> it would be clearer, I think as
[10:17] <lifeless> 'if '\x00' in f.read(1024): raise BinaryFile()'
[10:17] <spiv> So, a little unclear, but given the overall simplicity of the module not a big deal either.
[10:18] <thumper> what is the right way to call check_text_path with a path and a working tree?
[10:18] <lifeless> spiv: I hope you and Mary will be available on the 27th
[10:19] <thumper> the method assumes the path is relative to the current working dir
[10:19] <lifeless> thumper: tree.get_file() -> check_text_file
[10:32] <thumper> lifeless: in my test, I want to have fines in the tree
[10:33] <thumper> lifeless: how do I add the files ?
[10:33] <thumper> tree.add() ?
[10:36] <thumper> smart_add perhaps
[10:37] <lifeless> tree.add([path, path], [id ,id])
[10:37] <lifeless> usually
[10:37] <lifeless> or smart_add(['pathtotree']) if you just want versioned
[10:37] <lifeless> but at this point I'd smell aa case where branchbuilder might be ready
[10:40] <thumper> branchbuilder?
[10:45] <lifeless> yah
[10:46] <lifeless> self.make_branch_builder('relpath')
[10:46] <lifeless> grep for make_branch_builder in bzrlib.tests; its not well described yet
[10:47] <thumper> ok
[10:47] <thumper> prolly not tonight
[10:47] <thumper> 'tis getting late
[10:48] <mwhudson> remember to add the root as the first thing you do with the branch builder
[10:48] <mwhudson> or you will get very confused
[10:57]  * thumper puts laptop down
[11:00] <spiv> lifeless: we are, yeah
[11:13] <lifeless> google invites ftw
[11:13] <lifeless> spiv: ^
[11:14] <parthm> vila: ping
[11:15] <vila> parthm: pong
[11:15] <parthm> vila: hi. i have closed most of the review comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~parthm/bzr/376388-dot-bazaar-ownership/+merge/19691
[11:16] <parthm> vila: regarding, the testing, i updated the tests  as we discussed the other day ( http://pastebin.com/CKhiAgL4 ) but it seems a regular user doesn't have permissions to chown ( http://pastebin.com/ZPk2XGvv )
[11:17]  * bialix waves hi all
[11:17] <parthm> vila: i am out of ideas on the testing front.
[11:18]  * vila waves back at bialix
[11:21] <vila> parthm: weird
[11:21] <vila> argh, my X server is... acting weird too
[11:23] <vila> ha, no, it was only FF
[11:25] <parthm> vila: how do you suggest we take this forward? the earlier _dummy_chown approach seems reasonable to me as os.chown is the lowest layer.
[11:27] <vila> parthm: if chown can't be used, then it's sure sign that *not* using it in tests... shows why it should be used in tests :)
[11:28] <parthm> vila: :-)
[11:32] <vila> ... that's the first time I see chown failing in a directory where I have write access... did posix changed overnight ???
[11:33] <parthm> vila: i am not sure :-) ... generally i tend to use chown with sodo so i never really tried this before.
[11:33] <parthm> s/sodo/sudo
[11:36] <parthm> vila: i have also updated https://code.launchpad.net/~parthm/bzr/262450/+merge/19483 as per the review comments. so do i need to resubmit that?
[11:37] <vila> parthm: as a rule, if you modify a branch, you just push again and then check that the status is 'Needs review'
[11:38] <parthm> vila: thanks. i will do that.
[11:38] <vila> parthm: then you nag the patch pilot if nothing occur :)
[11:38] <parthm> vila: sounds like fun :-) so  i will nag poolie this week.
[11:40] <parthm> vila: so for https://code.launchpad.net/~parthm/bzr/376388-dot-bazaar-ownership/+merge/19691 should i just put it up for review for now? we can discuss it further over review.
[11:41] <parthm> its 'work in progress' now.
[11:42] <vila> parthm: as you feel, we at least to understand why os.chown doesn't work or your fix won't either anyway
[11:42] <parthm> vila: yes. we do have a better understand of the tests now. will do that. thanks.
[11:43] <parthm> regarding https://code.launchpad.net/~parthm/bzr/262450/+merge/19483 i have updated the code based on your comments. feel free to relook at it anytime :-)
[11:47] <parthm> vila: hmm. you raise a good point. normally chown won't work so a user foo can't chown to bar. however in this case we are going to chown to based on the containing folder which would be users home (and owned by the user).
[11:47] <parthm> so that should work i think. unfortunately we don't seem to have a thorough way of testing it.
[11:51] <vila> parthm: it would be quite risky to introduce untested code especially code for .bzr.log and .bazaar access...
[11:52] <parthm> vila: i agree. i does seem somewhat brittle. i will set the status to 'Needs Review' in case there are any more ideas. i would be happy to work some more if something comes up or we can reject it.
[11:53] <vila> parthm: sounds fine, don't forget to mention the chown problems you encountered in a comment
[11:53] <vila> a comment on the merge proposal I mean
[11:53] <parthm> vila: will do that.
[11:53] <parthm> vila: thanks for taking the time to review this.
[12:36] <jml> does bzr have a shorthand for doing 'bzr merge -r N..(N-1) .'
[12:37] <jml> in svn, I think you can do 'svn merge -c -N .'
[12:37] <jml> where N is a revno
[12:40] <parthm> jml: if you want to merge a specific revision then '-r N' should work IIRC.
[12:41] <jml> parthm, unmerge
[12:41] <jml> parthm, I want to revert a particular revision
[12:42] <parthm> jml: ah. :-) maybe 'bzr revert -r N'? I haven't tried it though.
[12:42] <spiv> jml: I suppose -r N..before:N
[12:42] <spiv> jml: which is shorthand if N is sufficiently long :)
[12:43] <spiv> jml: I think a --reverse/-R switch would probably be a reasonable addition to 'bzr merge', although I haven't thought about it carefully.
[12:44] <spiv> We already use -c as shorthand for -r (N-1)..N
[12:45] <spiv> jml: I'm off to bed... if you like the -R idea please file a bug asking for it :)
[12:46] <jml> spiv, ok
[12:48] <spiv> (And if you think it should be --backwards or --unmerge or something instead, do bikeshed in the bug report as appropriate)
[13:37] <awilkins> Best place to report packaging bugs still the bugs for bzr?
[13:37] <jelmer> awilkins: hmm?
[13:37] <jelmer> which packaging specifically?
[13:40] <awilkins> Windows
[13:40] <awilkins> The current 2.1.0-2 package contains bug 526740
[13:44] <awilkins> I guess bzr-windows-installers
[13:48] <parthm> hello. i am trying to create a series 0.0.1-final for lp:bzr-grep. i have already created series 0.0.1-final via web ui.
[13:49] <parthm> when i try to push my trunk (with tag 0.0.1-final) to lp:bzr-grep/0.0.1-final I get the error bzr: ERROR: Invalid url supplied to transport: "lp:bzr-grep/0.0.1-final": 0.0.1-final has no default branch.
[13:49] <parthm> what am i missing?
[13:56] <bialix> partm: you need to create a bracnh first, then assign it via series interface
[13:57] <bialix> there is no magic lp:bzr-grep/0.0.1-final branch created when you created a series
[13:57] <bialix> so just push to lp:~user/bzr-grep/0.0.1-final first
[13:58] <bialix> then assign this branch as *the* branch for the series
[13:58] <bialix> not vice versa
[13:58] <bialix> parthm: ^
[14:01] <parthm> bialix: I knew I was missing something silly :P thanks. that worked out fine.
[14:01] <bialix> silly milly
[17:27] <rioch> I have a file listed as modified in bzr status, but the filename has a * after it, which I don't normally see. What does that mean?
[17:30] <Peng> rioch: Exec bit changed.
[17:30] <Peng> I think.
[17:31] <rioch> ahhhh yeah that's true I did a chmod as well :)
[17:32] <Peng> I'm pretty sure the * is explained somewhere
[17:39] <slangasek> lifeless: doing the needful on the extra_headers patch; stuck now because I can't figure out how to *run* the test suite to verify that the test works :)
[17:39] <swathanthran> i have a local bzr checkout of emacs. where should i look to know which url it is pointing too?
[17:40] <swathanthran> i had a try through the .bzr directory but found nothing useful..
[17:42] <jelmer> swathanthran: try 'bzr info'
[17:43] <jelmer> slangasek: "bzr selftest bzrlib.plugins.email"
[17:43] <slangasek> jelmer: thanks :)
[17:44] <swathanthran> jelmer: http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/ is this trunk "proper" at the moment?
[17:44] <slangasek> oh neat, my patch makes *other* tests fail :)
[17:44] <slangasek> tests are great!
[17:44] <swathanthran> jelmer: assuming it can be said by looking at there or something..
[17:45] <swathanthran> bzr: ERROR: No WorkingTree exists for "http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/.bzr/checkout/". and bzr: ERROR: No WorkingTree exists for "http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk/.bzr/checkout/". as i tried bzr update http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/ and bzr update http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/r/emacs/trunk
[17:45] <swathanthran> bzr update says Tree is up to date at revision 99318.
[17:50] <swathanthran> bzr pull does it:)
[17:51] <jelmer> swathanthran: specifying a URL to 'bzr update' will try to update that remote URL :-)
[17:54] <swathanthran> uh:) i thought it the opposite way:)
[17:57] <vila> slangasek: 'bzr selftest -s bzrlib.plugins.email' should be faster
[17:57] <vila> slangasek: you can also do 'bzr selftest -s bp.email -s bt.<the other failing tests>'
[17:58] <vila> slangasek: 'bp' and 'bt' are known shortcuts
[18:00] <slangasek> vila: ok, cheers :)
[18:01] <Peng> (FYI, 'bzr selftest foo' loads the entire list of tests and then filters it. 'bzr selftest -s foo' only loads those tests starting with the module 'foo'.)
[18:06] <vila> slangasek: I'm not sure what you're working on, but be aware that part of the plugin has been moved to bzr-core but the plugin still has that code (mostly the smtp connection stuff from memory)
[18:06] <vila> slangasek: But if you're modifying something else, no worries
[18:07] <jelmer> 'evening vila
[18:07] <slangasek> vila: hum, I'm adding a new feature to the plugin, and basing my work on lp:~bzr/bzr-email/trunk/; where would I see that things have moved?
[18:07] <vila> jelmer: hey  :)
[18:07] <vila> slangasek: nothing has moved from the plugin yet, that's the point :-/ Some code has been taken from there, put in core, and enhanced there
[18:08] <slangasek> ok... :)
[18:08] <vila> slangasek: let me check
[18:08] <slangasek> vila: lp:~vorlon/bzr-email/extra-headers/, if you want to comment on the appropriateness
[18:08] <slangasek> but lifeless mentioned nothing to me yesterday about this code moving :)
[18:08] <vila> slangasek: ok, so you should be fine :)
[18:12] <vila> slangasek: hmm, smtp_connection.py seems to have diverged, I can't be more precise at first glance
[18:12] <slangasek> ok
[18:13]  * vila looks at lp:~vorlon/bzr-email/extra-headers
[18:20] <vila> slangasek: hmm, well, it's late, but it looks like your additions will be welcome in bzrlib/email_message.py ...
[18:20] <vila> slangasek: bah, one more thing to backport from the plugin ...
[18:32] <slangasek> vila: mumble; well, I'm at least going to wait until lifeless is satisfied with the merge on bzr-email first
[18:33] <slangasek> vila: fwiw, this patching is all tied to moving the Debian Samba team off of svn, greatly simplifying the workflow we discussed at UDS :)
[18:33] <vila> slangasek: sure, that's what I meant. I didn't imply you had to do the backport
[18:33] <vila> slangasek: great news, thanks
[19:09] <kjcole> Is there a way to get bzr to eliminate unnecessary .bzr/ files?  (Say, for example, in the case of using rsync or scp independently of bzr with different versions of bzr, or upgrades that didn't quite go as planned.)
[20:09]  * kfogel is away: bbiab
[20:28] <lifeless> slangasek: bzr selftest email
[20:28] <lifeless> slangasek: or, to be a bit faster, the less discoverable 'bzr selftest -s bp.email'
[20:29] <slangasek> lifeless: done - merge request resubmitted.  Good morning :)
[20:29] <lifeless> slangasek: good morning :)
[22:24] <xeviox> can somebody help me understanding the bzr 2a format?
[22:25] <xeviox> I've seen that there is a folder called "branch" that holds basic information like the last revision
[22:25] <xeviox> I've also seen that there is a "repository" folder that seems to hold the data
[22:27] <xeviox> as far as I can understand the contents are stored in the "packs" subfolder of "repository"
[22:27] <Peng> xeviox: Some data is stored in the indices as well.
[22:27] <xeviox> ok
[22:28] <Peng> FWIW, the basic meta dir format (.bzr/branch, .bzr/repository, .bzr/checkout) has been around for ages.
[22:28] <xeviox> how is the information stored in indices and packs?
[22:28] <Peng> Cleverly.
[22:28] <Peng> .bzr/repository/{packs,indices} have existed since pack-0.92, though the actual format has changed several times.
[22:28] <xeviox> it seems to be compressed, but I don't see using what ..
[22:28] <Peng> zlib.
[22:29] <xeviox> are you a developer of the project?
[22:29] <Peng> Not really.
[22:29] <xeviox> k
[22:29] <xeviox> anyways thanks for the background info :D
[22:29] <Peng> It's not super-simple, and even if I wasn't half-asleep, I don't know all of the answers.
[22:30] <xeviox> so there is some metadata in front of the data, any idea what it is?
[22:30] <Peng> There is documentation, at the very least in the code, developer docs and mailing list.
[22:30] <Peng> Look up btrees, packs and groupcompress.
[22:31] <xeviox> "records" look like "gcblz\n324\n442\nData...
[22:31] <xeviox> Peng: ok I'll check
[22:31] <xeviox> the problem is that the project is very complex
[22:31] <xeviox> and my skills in python are very basic :(
[22:32] <xeviox> I just try to build up a readonly script in php
[22:32] <xeviox> as there a few people that want to share there codes but couldn't use bzr on their webpages ..
[22:33] <Peng> Trying to re-implement bzr is not a fun task.
[22:34] <xeviox> Peng: sure :), but I hope that a read-only script is not that hard ..
[22:34] <Peng> It is that hard. :P
[22:34] <xeviox> :(
[22:34] <Peng> What exactly are you trying to build?
[22:35] <xeviox> I just want to build a script that is able to "read" a bazaar respository
[22:36] <xeviox> a little web interface for bazaar
[22:36] <xeviox> as there is nothing that is usable with php only
[22:38] <xeviox> maybe I'm able to release a working solution for one format and encourage others to help to support more ..
[23:02] <lifeless> xeviox: there is a xml interface to bzr; you are probably better off using that than reimplementing the core in php
[23:02] <poolie> hello all
[23:03] <xeviox> lifeless: the problem is that people can't use it at their webserver without installing bzr ..
[23:13] <lifeless> 'seems reasonable to have bzr installed to use bzr' :P
[23:16] <poolie> yeah
[23:17] <poolie> is it hard to install?
[23:17] <poolie> i guess python can be hard
[23:17] <fullermd> That's SO 20th century...
[23:19] <ronny> poolie: every sane linux distribution ships recent bzr packages, so its absolutely easy to install
[23:20] <mneptok> and not only every sane distro, but even Gentoo.
[23:21] <ronny> mneptok: i'd argue that gentoo is sane
[23:21] <mneptok> ronny: ah, so you work for an electricity company. ;)
[23:22] <ronny> mneptok: no, but i support carbon-free global warming
[23:23] <mneptok> ronny: hmmm ... does Gentoo have a SPARC port?
[23:23] <ronny> no idea
[23:23] <mneptok> that would get the job done.
[23:23] <ronny> haha
[23:24] <ronny> i prefer crowdsourcing (read everyone please install gentoo - i want the snow outside gone tommorow)
[23:24] <mneptok> $ emerge spring
[23:25] <ronny> \o/
[23:40] <poolie> oh hi ronny
[23:40] <poolie> amazingly enough some people still use other OSs
[23:53] <jelmer> whoa, using the indexes to store the cache for bzr-git is *significantly* faster
[23:54] <dvheumen> is anyone familiar with the class _RelockDebugMixin and for what it is used?
[23:54] <dvheumen> i mean, i can read the comments, but is it actually *super* important, or just for the occasional debugging?
[23:55] <dvheumen> (_RelockDebugMixin can be found in lock.py)
[23:55] <lifeless> jelmer: which indices?
[23:56] <jelmer> lifeless: the bzr Btree indexes
[23:56] <lifeless> jelmer: custom use of ?
[23:56] <jelmer> for a certain definition of custom
[23:56] <jelmer> I'm just using their public API but storing different keys of course
[23:56] <lifeless> jelmer: right
[23:56] <jelmer> in .bzr/repository/git
[23:56] <lifeless> a la bzr-search
[23:56] <lifeless> yes, our btree's are pretty good
[23:56] <jelmer> yeah, but without actual content in packs
[23:57] <lifeless> content schmontent
[23:57] <poolie> dvheumen: it certainly sounds like it's for debugging
[23:57] <poolie> why?
[23:58] <poolie> well, you can see it is in fact mixed in to man yclasses
[23:58] <poolie> so we shouldn't break it
[23:58] <poolie> and -Drelock is useful
[23:58] <jelmer> lifeless: So, lsprof shows the amount of time spent deal with the cache is now ~1%, down from >20%
[23:58] <lifeless> jelmer: awesome
[23:58] <lifeless> brb
[23:59] <jelmer> Although adding repack triggering will increase it a bit once I add that
[23:59] <dvheumen> I'm exploring the classes around branches, trees and repository objects. I've got this idea to create a super class of which all derive, where this super class contains those high-level lock hooks, but in the case of the Repository class this class is in the way :P
[23:59] <lifeless> dvheumen: I don't think thats a particularly good idea.
[23:59] <dvheumen> and it seems feasible to put this functionality in the same super class as the lock hooks


[02:27] <jkakar> FYI, it looks like one of the loggerhead appserver is having issues.
[02:28] <jkakar> At least, that's what I guess since I keep seeing "internal server error", but a reload works.
[03:57] <lamothe> Are you guys aware of general weirdness with LP to do with bzr and Loggerhead?
[03:57] <lamothe> Getting "Internal server errors".
[04:45] <Jordan_U> Is the ability to create PPAs for debian a high priority with the increased collaboration for 10.04?
[04:45] <Jordan_U> It would be very usefull to me
[05:26] <ripps> Jordan_U: Many PPA's and ubuntu packages already work with Debian. I know a couple debian users use my gmpc-trunk and mpd-trunk ppas
[06:01] <Jordan_U> Is launchpad down for everyone else?
[06:02] <posulliv> yep, its down for me too
[06:03] <anixx> hi! Why did you disappear?
[06:07] <ChrisMorgan> launchpad came down right in the middle of branching lp:inkscape... I /finally/ looked at the website and discovered that it was getting a 302 to offline.html, the branch command didn't tell me anything, only bzr lp-login was telling me what was happening... :-(
[06:08] <Jordan_U> I'd better file a bug report about launchpad being down
[06:09] <ChrisMorgan> Jordan_U: yeah... on launchpad :/
[06:09] <ChrisMorgan> It was down a while yesterday also
[06:11] <ChrisMorgan> 503 would be better than 302.
[06:11] <Peng> Should file a bug about that.
[06:12] <ChrisMorgan> But you never can file a bug when you manage to reproduce it ;-)
[06:15] <micahg> LP offline?
[06:15] <^^Johnny5> The Ubuntu launchpad app seems down is this alright?
[06:15] <ChrisMorgan> micahg: yep
[06:16] <^^Johnny5> How long do you know?
[06:16] <micahg> ChrisMorgan: scheduled?
[06:16] <micahg> idr anything
[06:16] <ChrisMorgan> It's been down for 10-15 minutes
[06:16] <^^Johnny5> kk
[06:16] <ChrisMorgan> I'm nothing to do with the Launchpad team... I was just in the middle of branching lp:inkscape
[06:16] <Kubuntiac> Is Launchpad supposed to be down at the moment? ('Cause it is...)
[06:17] <Peng> OK, someone needs to update the topic.
[06:17] <^^Johnny5> Yes I know someone sad down for 10 min app
[06:17] <Kubuntiac> Ah, cool.
[06:17] <ChrisMorgan> Kubuntiac: it's been down for 15 minutes, we're all rushing in and reporting it :D
[06:17] <ChrisMorgan> Bit more than 15 minutes actually
[06:17] <Kubuntiac> :)
[06:17] <Kubuntiac> It's probably down cause all the devs keep having to reply to questions like ours. lol
[06:18] <^^Johnny5> lol
[06:19] <lifeless> if it was scheduled, it would be in the title bar
[06:19]  * Kamping_Kaiser has his answer *g*
[06:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> thanks ;)
[06:19] <nigel_nb> is launchpad down?
[06:20] <DBO> seconded
[06:20] <Peng> nigel_nb: yes.
[06:20] <lifeless> I'm escalating the problem now
[06:20] <Bugsbane> Would be cool to have some automated kind of "ping IRC when launchpad goes up/down"
[06:20] <ChrisMorgan|Away> I doubt I was the first to come in... so that's at least 8 so far to report it :P
[06:20] <nigel_nb> Bugsbane: I think there is a system.... us :P
[06:20] <Bugsbane> lol. HIS... "Human IRC System"
[06:20] <nigel_nb> yeah
[06:21] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Only 2 people did it before you.
[06:21] <nigel_nb> thanks Peng, always nice to know its not my side thats screwed up :)
[06:21] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Ooh, I was an early one!
[06:21] <Bugsbane> I predict this will spiral out of control, ending the world on December 21, 2012...
[06:21] <lifeless> escalated, should be in progress very soon
[06:21] <Bugsbane> Wait and see! ;)
[06:21] <ChrisMorgan|Away> I didn't figure out what it was at first because the error messages were different inside TortoiseBzr and Bazaar Explorer
[06:22] <Bugsbane> lifeless: Phew. The world may yet be saved
[06:22] <Peng> .....for now!
[06:22] <Bugsbane> Muhahahaha!
[06:23] <mattman> so...... ubuntu one is apparently down. (sorry if i'm a little late). the offline.html page said to report it here.
[06:23] <Bugsbane> BINGO! That makes 9. :)
[06:23] <mistrynitesh> even the wiki is down
[06:23] <mattman> went to register a friend a new account. oh great
[06:23]  * Peng tries to remember what Ubuntu One is.
[06:23] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Bugsbane: must be a dozen by now?
[06:23] <mattman> sorry then
[06:23]  * Bugsbane is a bit slow
[06:23] <mattman> that's the thing about irc.
[06:24] <mattman> no history exactly
[06:24] <ChrisMorgan|Away> No... only 9 :-(
[06:24] <mattman> maybe someone did an rm -rf on the wrong server.
[06:24] <Peng> mattman: Mibbit provides history. :D
[06:24] <Peng> lifeless++
[06:24] <Peng> Then again, nobody reads topics...
[06:24] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: remember that Freenode blocked Mibbit?
[06:24] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Yeah, I know.
[06:24] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: when it's on entrance they tend to
[06:25] <Bugsbane> Whats so evil about Mibbit?
[06:25] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Bugsbane: nothing.
[06:25] <andruk> i cant get to http://launchpad.net/
[06:25] <nigel_nb> ChrisMorgan|Away: +11
[06:25] <ChrisMorgan|Away> The thing is that /Freenode/ is evil.
[06:25] <mattman> *feels stuipd*
[06:25] <Peng> adn/topic
[06:25] <Peng> andruk: /topic
[06:25] <nigel_nb> thats 10
[06:25] <Bugsbane> lol "Hey lets block a random service, just for the fun of it and see what people do!"
[06:25] <Peng> The good thing about topics is that you can say "/topic" instead of spelling out the explanation every time.
[06:25] <ChrisMorgan|Away> So nice people like us at http://portableapps.com/support/chat/live had to move from my nicely crafted PortableApps.com Mibbit skin to that mess which is webchat.freenode.net :-(
[06:25] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: ...Or another IRC network.
[06:26] <mattman> *considers writing script to count the references to 'launchpad' and 'down'
[06:26] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: not an option, #portableapps has gained too much weight on Freenode, it'd kill it moving it.
[06:26] <ChrisMorgan|Away> mattman: /me
[06:26] <nhandler> lifeless: You might want to update @launchpadstatus
[06:26] <roxan_> is there a way I can add PPA while launchpad is down
[06:26] <Bugsbane> mattman: launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down launchpad down
[06:26] <mattman> been away from irc for VERY long.
[06:26] <lifeless> nhandler: ?
[06:27] <nhandler> lifeless: http://identi.ca/launchpadstatus
[06:27] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: Oh, too bad.
[06:27] <lifeless> nhandler: If the details for that are on the wiki... the wiki is down.
[06:27] <lifeless> nhandler: so I might like to; but being *able* to is different ;)
[06:27] <Bugsbane> nhandler: That seems to suggest Launchpad is just fine at the moment... :/
[06:28] <Bugsbane> (the identica link)
[06:28] <lifeless> should be back shortly; one proximate cause has been found and services are being bounced.
[06:28] <Peng> Bugsbane: That was his point.
[06:28] <andruk> Peng: thanks, i saw it change...
[06:28] <Bugsbane> Ahhh...
[06:28]  * Bugsbane is very slow
[06:30] <DBO> wewt, its back
[06:30] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm... i think the error page should be consistant in its use of <centre>
[06:30] <Peng> Yay.
[06:32] <tsimpson> but <centre> is depreciated in XHTML in favour of CSS
[06:32] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Better still, just send a 503.
[06:32] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Much more descriptive.
[06:33] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: They should indeed be using 503, but a useful page is still nice.
[06:33] <ChrisMorgan|Away> 302 (Found) should not be used often at all, and definitely not here.
[06:33] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Now I really am away.
[06:33] <Peng> ChrisMorgan|Away: The status code and the page content aren't related.
[06:33] <ChrisMorgan|Away> Peng: I know, exactly.
[06:33] <ChrisMorgan|Away> You can still send offline.html's contents directly and use a 503
[06:34] <Peng> Indeed.
[06:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> well... crisis over. thanks for the updates :)
[06:34] <Bugsbane> The world lives to see another day...
[06:35]  * Peng will file a bug
[06:35] <Peng> Which project, though? launchpad? launchpad-foundations?
[06:36] <lifeless> Peng: whats the bug?
[06:36] <Peng> lifeless: "Please try again" page does 302 Found instead of 503 Internal Server Error.
[06:36] <Peng> Or...some other error code, anyway.
[06:37] <Peng> Err, 503 Service Unavailable I meant. :D
[06:37] <lifeless> Peng: please
[06:37] <lifeless> do
[06:38] <Peng> OK, but which project?
[06:39]  * Peng will go with launchpad
[06:42] <Jordan_U> Peng: That means it also breaks http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/launchpad.net which said it was just me the entire time :)
[06:42] <Peng> That website reports "it's down" when it gets a 503?
[06:43] <Jordan_U> Peng: I haven't found an explanation of what exactly it does but I would assume so
[06:44] <tsimpson> HTTP 503 = Service Unavailable
[06:45] <tsimpson> so if it's unavailable (offline), 503 is the most fitting error
[06:46] <Peng> I filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/489847. :D
[07:08] <wgrant> Peng: It always used to return a 503, but when they changed to this new-fangled reverse proxy thing it all went a bit odd.
[07:22] <Peng> wgrant: I thought I remembered getting 503s in the past. Thanks for the explanation. :)
[08:02] <Peng> I don't want to do it right now, but is it possible to get the secondary copies of a branch (served over HTTP and whatever) nuked and recreated from scratch?
[08:02] <lifeless> Peng: ask-a-losa
[08:02] <lifeless> or change the format
[08:04] <Peng> I suppose I could temporarily put up an empty branch with a different format...
[08:05] <lifeless> you could use sftp to move the repo to .bzr/fooish
[08:05] <lifeless> and use bzrlib to make a repo with $other format
[08:06] <Peng> Yeah.
[08:06] <Peng> (Well, I'd use hitchhiker.)
[08:24] <Peng> I took care of it that way. :)
[08:43] <Peng> Although I badly broke the secondary copy... :D
[08:43] <Peng> How many secondary copies are there nowadays? Just the one, for HTTP and read-only bzr+ssh?
[08:50] <wgrant> Peng: That's right.
[08:50] <wgrant> Just two instances of the branch are stored: hosted and mirrored.
[08:51] <Peng> OK.
[08:52] <shiki-> hello everyone
[08:54] <Peng> If the mirror-creator thought the hosted copy was horribly broken last time it tried, how long until it tries again?
[08:55] <wgrant> Peng: I don't know, but I guess it might not until you either call requestMirror or lock and unlock.
[08:55] <Peng> Wow, I'm totally transferring data from LP at 25 Mbps.
[08:55] <Peng> Over bzr+ssh!
[08:56] <shiki-> ehm
[08:57] <wgrant> Peng: You must be in the DC or somethingl
[08:57] <Peng> wgrant: A DC, but it's in Texas.
[08:58] <Peng> wgrant: ....I don't know how to run requestMirror.
[09:00] <Peng> Sorry for wasting a bunch of your bandwidth. >.>
[09:00] <wgrant> Peng: launchpadlib. Get hold of a branch, call requestMirror()
[09:05] <Peng> Wait, requestMirror() does hosted -> mirrored? It's not just for mirrored branches?
[09:05] <wgrant> Peng: Correct.
[09:05] <Peng> Neat.
[09:05] <Peng> It's all the same to the puller, I guess.
[09:05] <wgrant> Right. One is just pulled from a local location.
[09:06] <Peng> Alright, I'll set up launchpadlib. I've been needing to for a long time anyway, since I have a lot of mirrored branches.
[09:48] <Peng> Thanks for the encouragement, wgrant. requestMirror() is very nice (though launchpadlib has a frightening number of dependencies).
[09:51] <wgrant> Peng: What does it need? I cannot think of anything particularly abnormal besides wadllib and lazr.restfulclient.
[09:51] <wgrant> Mmm, I guess lazr.uri and oauth too.
[09:52] <wgrant> But this is why we have apt.
[09:52] <Peng> wgrant: I dunno. I used setuptools; it pulled in several thousand zope packages.
[09:52] <wgrant> Oh. Because of the lazr.restful test dependency.
[09:52] <wgrant> I filed a bug on that a few months ago.
[09:53] <wgrant> It's only needed for tests, but is declared as a full dep.
[09:53] <Peng> pytz, epydoc, simplejson, httplib2, elementtree...
[19:53] <nhandler> mok0: Look at the paste I sent you. It shows the process
[19:53] <mok0> Right
[20:26] <mrooney> Launchpad seems to be giving me 2 po files that fail a msgfmt -c, it seems to be doing odd things with plurals, should I file a bug?
[20:37] <lifeless> mrooney: sure
[21:00] <sproaty> uh, I dunno how but somehow my project's got ubuntu package links? https://launchpad.net/whyteboard/+packages  - I didn't make them, only one before. I have filled [needs-packaging] though, could that be it?
[21:00] <sproaty> also, can I link my ppa to the project somehow?
[21:04] <thumper> sproaty: I think anyone can link a project to a package
[21:07] <wgrant> sproaty: As thumper says, anybody can add links you can remove them at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/whyteboard.
[21:07] <wgrant> And no, at this point you cannot link a project to a PPA, except by adding a URL to the description.
[21:07] <sproaty> ah ok, I've done that
[21:08] <sproaty> I'll leave the links there so if it does get packaged they're already there


[04:38] <scriptwarlock> test
[05:05] <Terminus> ack
[06:40] <dodimar> woot woot
[06:48] <Knightlust> currently at work, i may not always be avaiable to queries, but just ping me if you need me
[06:52] <zakame> sup
[06:57] <scriptwarlock> halo
[06:57] <scriptwarlock> busy ako, laro UT4 :)
[06:58] <zakame> meeting in a couple
[07:00] <dodimar> UT4?
[07:00] <scriptwarlock> yup
[07:00] <zakame> unreal tournament 4 I think
[07:00] <scriptwarlock> kaka adik
[07:00] <scriptwarlock> aw urban terror pala
[07:00] <zakame> lol
[07:01] <scriptwarlock> hehehe poor mans cs
[07:01] <dodimar> hehe..
[07:01] <zakame> hehe
[07:01] <zakame> so anyways
[07:01] <scriptwarlock> meron na kasi mga pinoys nakilaro
[07:01] <zakame> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/loco-philippine-team/136/detail/
[07:01] <scriptwarlock> kk go zak
[07:02] <dodimar> alas tres na.. meeting na!!!!
[07:02] <zakame> oo :)
[07:02] <zakame> I'll keep this short
[07:02] <zakame> I just wanted to hear out some ideas for future ubuntu-ph activities
[07:03] <scriptwarlock> like schools?
[07:03] <zakame> in particular short-term, doable ideas
[07:04] <zakame> yeah, I reckon this and the coming months are the season for many FOSS activities
[07:04] <zakame> what would you like to do with schools?
[07:05] <scriptwarlock> out reach, ads
[07:05] <scriptwarlock> *outreach
[07:05] <e1mer> sfd is coming up
[07:05] <dodimar> don't want to be negative, but there were a few ideas brought up sa forums before regarding that, but it died out..
[07:06] <e1mer> activities pre sfd?
[07:07] <scriptwarlock> we can bring it back here in cebu di pa gaano ka active mga guys dito. but with the help of xome bros like elmer and aljoriz, possible.
[07:07] <zakame> dodimar: I guess we could hear those :)
[07:07] <Knightlust> someone needed speaker for a pangasinan event, i'll volunteer since - i believe - i'm closer to the venue
[07:08] <zakame> Knightlust: +1
[07:09] <zakame> can you send me the details so I can document
[07:09] <Knightlust> sure
[07:10] <zakame> scriptwarlock: yep, maybe you can set something up like a demo
[07:11] <scriptwarlock> kk gagawin natin yan.. i have prepared some brochure layouts para sa mga studs and some tarps at speaker na lang kulang
[07:11] <zakame> e1mer: that sounds good, although I haven't spoken to this year's sfd organizers yet (i'm in the fb group though)
[07:12] <kidsodateless_> hello all
[07:12] <e1mer> hi
[07:12] <zakame> hi
[07:13] <Knightlust> there's 2 sfd events this year methinks. the one being organized by cp-union and the one being organized by 8layertech
[07:13] <zakame> I think just like last year
[07:14] <Knightlust> that's this year
[07:14] <scriptwarlock> oh i remember erlee
[07:15] <Knightlust> rjian on cp-union, not sure though about 8layertech, but they've did email an SFD Song
[07:15] <Knightlust> hehe
[07:16] <Knightlust> yeah, just viewed the sfd-discuss ML, meric is organizing an sfd event
[07:17] <zakame> cool
[07:18] <zakame> I'll get in touch with him
[07:19] <scriptwarlock> may sked na ba para sa sfd?
[07:19] <kidsodateless_> i'm late, do we have links for flashback? what was the current topic? hehe
[07:19] <zakame> yeah let me recap
[07:20] <zakame> we're currently discussing shor-term ideas for future ubuntu-ph events
[07:21] <zakame> there's currently school outreach from scriptwarlock (needs a speaker,) a pangasinan event Knightlust will be attending, and SFD
[07:21] <scriptwarlock> i think erlee, aljoriz and waterboy can handle the talk
[07:22] <scriptwarlock> ako bahala sa mga materials
[07:24] <scriptwarlock> zakame, what about the red cross trainers for ph they need ubuntu guys sino dapat ipadala mo dun.
[07:24] <zakame> yeah I saw yolynne looking for people off the fb group
[07:25] <zakame> ther'e quite a few people already willing to volunteer
[07:25] <Knightlust> i'd love to do it, but the venue's a bit far from where i live, that's why i'll take the pangasinan event
[07:26] <kidsodateless_> scriptwarlock, sfd will fall on  sept. 17
[07:26] <Knightlust> zakame: speaking of which, our lady of lourdes college at daet also needs a speaker for their Robotex event this August. will forward you the email
[07:26] <scriptwarlock> kidsodateless, copy
[07:26] <zakame> Knightlust: hmm I might go for that :)
[07:29] <zakame> so that's quite a few we have now :)  looking good
[07:29] <zakame> if we push through with the re-approval I may be able to request another batch of CDs
[07:29] <kidsodateless_> zakame, thanks for that, and wow sounds cool!.
[07:29] <zakame> yeah
[07:30] <scriptwarlock> nice.. cd's sana aabot din yan dito :)
[07:30] <zakame> since I have a single box left here (I sent a box to yolynne, then a few at the party here, and some more to requestors)
[07:31] <zakame> yeah I think if I can request now it might make it to SFD
[07:31] <zakame> or earlier
[07:31] <kidsodateless_> Team, how about organizing a SFD?ubuntu-ph will be the main organizer? venue will be set and 100+ participants are all set. :)
[07:31] <scriptwarlock> zakame, padal ka rin sa cebu ng cd's ngayong oct release na lang yung oneiric
[07:34] <zakame> kidsodateless_: I guess we can do that next year :) ubuntu-ph doesn't have many resources at the moment (and we're pending re-approval)
[07:34] <zakame> scriptwarlock: will try to ;)
[07:35] <zakame> so let me list the ideas down again
[07:35] <scriptwarlock> zakame, 30pcs pwede na ty
[07:35] <zakame> 1. scriptwarlock - outreach event in Cebu
[07:35] <zakame> 2. Knightlust - event in Pangasinan
[07:36] <zakame> 3. CPU/8Layer - SFD (reaching out)
[07:36] <zakame> 4. ulinskie - Red Cross linux training (getting volunteers)
[07:37] <zakame> 5. zakame - Robotex Daet event (tentative)
[07:37] <waterboy0911> what did I miss?
[07:37] <scriptwarlock> waterboy0911, tanan haaha
[07:37] <zakame> lol
[07:37] <scriptwarlock> waterboy0911, backread na lang
[07:38] <zakame> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/07/19/%23ubuntu-ph.html
[07:38] <zakame> lol it hasn't updated yet
[07:38] <zakame> but it will be there shortly
[07:38] <waterboy0911> toinks
[07:39] <scriptwarlock> zakame, where can we post the brochure layouts para makita at makorek ang mga pinaggagawa namin
[07:39] <zakame> I'll be putting it on the wiki anyhow, and minutes later on hte ML and FB
[07:39] <zakame> scriptwarlock: put it on the wiki as a subpage of the PhilippineTeam
[07:39] <zakame> then discuss over ML/forums/FB
[07:40] <scriptwarlock> zakame, copy
[07:40] <Terminus> zakame: just mailed you the photos i mentioned before. you decide if they're useful.
[07:40] <zakame> we'll probably have to run it against the UbuntuArtwork team too
[07:40] <zakame> Terminus: thanks!
[07:40] <zakame> so, moving on to next topic
[07:41] <zakame> Wiki cleanup (and updating)
[07:41] <zakame> The team wiki page is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippineTeam
[07:42] <zakame> we obviously need to update the news and other pages
[07:42] <zakame> and maybe funnel stuff from ubuntu-ph.org (as currently the latter site is down)
[07:44] <zakame> who can help out?  I'm thinking of also putting the news in a separate subpage
[07:45] <waterboy0911> creating current news will be great..
[07:45] <zakame> yep
[07:46] <Knightlust> zakame: just saw your g+ post, i the most recent backup of the u-ph.org
[07:47] <Knightlust> but the db dump of the site needs re-downloading
[07:47] <zakame> ehy ulinskie
[07:47] <Knightlust> ulinskie!
[07:47] <zakame> Knightlust: cool, let's get that as soon as we can get the site back up
[07:48] <Knightlust> got it!
[07:48] <zakame> I can get us a VPS for it
[07:49] <Knightlust> cool!
[07:50] <zakame> I'll start with the /News subpage then, I can add this meeting as well as the recent natty events
[07:50] <zakame> btw we also have a few press releases out
[07:52] <zakame> I'll probably also put some old subpages under PhilippineTeam/Archives
[07:52] <zakame> an freshen up a bit
[07:53] <zakame> oh btw
[07:54] <zakame> for people speaking and organizing events: can you create a page of yourselves in the Ubuntu Wiki?  So I can track you in the News and events
[07:54] <scriptwarlock> yes nice
[07:54] <zakame> you can document your Ubuntu experiences and contributions there
[07:55] <zakame> so eventually you can have a record you can show off to, for example if you want to become a Ubuntu Member ;)
[07:56] <zakame> ok
[07:56] <zakame> so as for Wiki work I'll do some cleanup and reorganizing
[07:57] <zakame> but for long term I'll need people to update it as events come and go
[07:57] <Terminus> nice to see you guys have the time to do ubuntu related stuff. =)
[07:58] <zakame> yeah :)
[07:58] <waterboy0911> the cebu team is currently undergoing plan for the next release party
[07:58] <scriptwarlock> waterboy0911, kita na lang storya kay mga tagalegs na sila
[07:59] <zakame> waterboy0911: we'd love to hear all about that!
[07:59] <Terminus> i'm thinking maintaining ubuntu-ph would be easier if there's a local ubuntu consultant blessed by canonical.
[08:00] <zakame> I reckon JeanAustinR is also planning one at Davao
[08:00] <scriptwarlock> sino si jeanaustin?
[08:01] <zakame> guy at twitter/g+
[08:01] <waterboy0911> I need to meen JeanAustinR I'll be in davao this week or next..
[08:01] <kidsodateless_> scriptwarlock, si zeroseven in forums :)
[08:01] <zakame> I think he's at the forums too ( I think that's where I fisrst saw him)
[08:01] <scriptwarlock> waterboy0911, oi waterboy si loell meet him
[08:01] <zakame> oh therewego :)
[08:02] <scriptwarlock> kidsodateless, ah yo kmusta
[08:04] <scriptwarlock> where are we na sa topic
[08:04] <zakame> so I guess we got a lot of events to look forward!
[08:04] <zakame> :)
[08:04] <waterboy0911> move along with the topic..
[08:04] <waterboy0911> hehehe :)
[08:04] <zakame> the wiki
[08:04] <scriptwarlock> yeah the wiki will let our cebu secretariat do the typing and posting :)
[08:05] <scriptwarlock> sa space namin ha
[08:06] <zakame> hehe
[08:06] <kidsodateless_> scriptwarlock, okey lang naman :)
[08:06] <zakame> ok
[08:07] <zakame> we can revisit the wiki updating at a later meeting, right now it just needs news updating and reorganizing
[08:07] <scriptwarlock> zakame, organize lang namin ng maigi tong sa cebu and then we proceed sa skol plans atibapa
[08:07] <zakame> scriptwarlock: cool
[08:08] <zakame> so, that's it for the agenda, anything else?
[08:09] <zakame> I guess that's it then, thanks for coming guys :)
[08:09] <waterboy0911> hehehe school outreached had been a long plan goal sa cebu team
[08:10] <scriptwarlock> gonna go guys boss zak ty
[08:11] <zakame> thanks :)
[08:12] <zakame> waterboy0911: what schools are you targeting?
[08:13] <scriptwarlock> waterboy0911, kadto girls high :) hehehe
[08:15] <waterboy0911> zakame, first target girls highschool... pag maraming chix...  madali nalang ma kuha ang mga lalaki.. hahahaha
[08:15] <waterboy0911> zakame, mostly technical school.. from elem to college
[08:15] <scriptwarlock> psst OT
[08:19] <Knightlust> gtg... home-bound
[08:24] <zakame> lol wut
[08:36]  * kidsodateless_ continue sleeping
[09:05] <arscariosus> oh, so there has been a meeting earlier? :)
[09:05] <Terminus> arscariosus: yes. 2 hours ago.
[09:06] <arscariosus> just came home from school :)
[09:10] <arscariosus> sir zakame you know jesu petar maglutac?
[09:26] <zakame> arscariosus: yep he's one of our devs here @$WORK
[09:37] <zeroseven0183> Good afternoon
[09:38] <zeroseven0183> Tama ba ang rinig ko na ngayon ang meeting?
[09:41] <zeroseven0183> Mamaya pa pala sa #ubuntu-meeting http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1807228
[09:43] <arscariosus> zakame, he's from our school. :)
[09:59] <zeroseven0183> kumpleto na yata ang team, futbol na 'to
[10:00] <SamhainXIII> Sobra pa! Hahaha!
[10:00] <SamhainXIII> Dalawa na lang 11-a-side na.
[10:00] <zeroseven0183> Kumpleto na kasi dumating na ang istarr pleyer
[10:01] <zakame> arscariosus: awesome!
[10:01] <zakame> hey zeroseven0183 , yeah, 5am later
[10:02] <zeroseven0183> 9PM here?
[10:02] <arscariosus> zakame, yup, actually he was my classmate back in 2007 on our first programming class. too bad I had to stop and fro for three years haha
[10:02] <arscariosus> *and work
[10:07] <zakame> hehehe
[10:08] <zakame> zeroseven0183: 5am PHT (9pm UTC)
[10:08] <zeroseven0183> awwwwwwwww
[10:09] <zeroseven0183> Sorry hindi ko nabasa ng ayos. Ang aga naman nun
[10:13] <zakame> hehehe
[10:13] <zakame> usually #ubuntu-meeting folks meet at those hours
[10:16] <Terminus> heh, same problem i have with my corp on eve online. ops are at 1900 UTC. >_<
[13:09] <epal> may meeting pala dito.. puede maki-kinig? xD
[17:06] <zakame> #startmeeting
[17:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:06. The chair is zakame.
[17:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:06] <zakame> #stopmeeting
[17:06] <zakame> #endmeeting
[17:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:06.
[18:55]  * kidsodateless sipping coffee :)
[19:15] <arscariosus> :)
[19:16] <arscariosus> how do I do that in IRC? :3
[20:45] <Knightlust> so, i take it we go back to sleep?
[20:45] <Knightlust> heh!
[20:46] <arscariosus> hahaha
[20:46] <Knightlust> oh well, since i'm done updating the approval page, might as well trace back my accomplishments and update my own wiki
[20:46] <scriptwarlock> tapos na ang meeting?
[20:47] <Knightlust> scriptwarlock: there was no meeting
[20:47] <Knightlust> next month daw
[20:47] <scriptwarlock> hah tatapusin ko na lang to laro ko ut4
[20:48] <Knightlust> hehehe
[20:48] <scriptwarlock> matulog na nga rin
[20:48] <scriptwarlock> bai ebrebadi
[20:49] <arscariosus> bye :)
[20:49] <scriptwarlock> kanina pa ako dun akala ko iaba yung time natin sa meeting 5am yun pala isa lang
[20:50] <Knightlust> ako naman nagmamadali mag-update ng wiki
[20:50] <Knightlust> hehehe
[20:51] <scriptwarlock> pagsabi kanina goodbye dahil daw walang agenda naks gusto ko sana hold eh yun na pala gudbye
[20:51] <scriptwarlock> na talaga naku naman tong mga puti ba yan?
[20:51] <Knightlust> zakame: got the sql dump, as well as the script
[20:52] <kidsodateless> aw
[20:52] <Knightlust> i'll send an email to rt requesting server space
[20:52] <Knightlust> er... i'll check the wiki first, they might've changed process on loco site requests
[21:06] <zakame> I'm seriously pissed.
[21:07] <zakame> so I actually also need to update this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-locoteams/+bug/784664
[21:07] <zakame> (its a private bug for the re-approval)
[21:08] <zakame> the council won't act until that bug is updated, heck they don't even look at their own Agenda wikipage anymore
[21:11] <Knightlust> hehehe, relax zakame. on the bright side, we can go back to bed and catch a few more zzz's
[21:24] <arscariosus> *yawn*
[21:28] <zakame> Knightlust: team will expire from locoteams-approved by tomorrow 2011-7-21
[21:30] <Knightlust> oh crap!
[21:32] <zakame> I've put a note about that on the bug
[21:47] <zakame> wtf
[21:48] <zakame> czajkowski removed our team from the agenda prior to the meeting!
[21:48] <zakame> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda?action=diff&rev1=151&rev2=152
[21:53] <zakame> ok, posted that on the bug too
[21:53] <kidsodateless> seems,like she deleted all proposal agendas
[21:53] <zakame> itnet7 is looking into it
[21:54] <zakame> kidsodateless: yeah, probably without reading
[21:57] <Knightlust> ahahaha
[22:04] <zakame> ok, itnet7 says he'll review, given the confusing verbiage of the time, and extend the expiry while looking to review the application offline with the other council members
[22:18] <Knightlust> ayt! ayt! ayt!
[22:18] <Knightlust> nice one!
[22:21] <zakame> yeah :)


[03:29] <hyperair> could someone please help me upload https://launchpad.net/~hyperair/+archive/staging/+files/libgpod_0.8.3-4ubuntu3.dsc to ubuntu while i apply for my PPU access to libgpod?
[03:52] <TheMuso> hyperair: Sure, I'll take a look.
[03:52] <hyperair> thanks
[04:03] <zgsppdale> Hi
[04:04] <TheMuso> hyperair: Uplaoded.
[04:04] <hyperair> TheMuso: thanks
[04:07] <TheMuso> hyperair: np
[06:18] <pitti> Good morning
[07:23] <larsu> good morning!
[08:14] <ritz> hi, is indicators-printer maintained ?
[08:14] <larsu> ritz: not really...
[08:14] <larsu> what's the issue?
[08:14] <ritz> thought so
[08:15] <ritz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/959451
[08:15] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 959451 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Credentials from gnome-keyring is not used while printing" [Low,In progress]
[08:16] <ritz> are we deprecating this in favour of system-config-printer ?
[08:17] <ritz> or will we implement a different solution ( for ubuntu-unified-touch-phone-laptop-... image ) ?
[08:17] <dholbach> hey hey
[08:18] <dholbach> setting date and time in trusty does not work - it just opens up the general system settings
[08:18] <dholbach> is there a workaround?
[08:21] <dholbach> larsu, ^ do you know?
[08:22] <larsu> ritz: indicator-printer replaced system-config-printer's applet. We still use s-c-p for other stuff
[08:22] <larsu> ritz: I don't know about any plans for the phone yet
[08:22] <larsu> dholbach: let me check...
[08:23] <larsu> dholbach: do you have unity-control-center installed?
[08:23] <dholbach> larsu, yep
[08:23] <ali1234> you need unity-control-center-datetime
[08:24] <ali1234> it's a new package
[08:24] <larsu> but it's not pulled in by u-c-c or indicator-datetime?
[08:24] <ali1234> it ispulled in by ubuntu-desktop^
[08:24] <ali1234> but not if you're just upgrading
[08:24] <larsu> dholbach: alternatively you can still start the g-c-c with gnome-control-center.real
[08:24] <ali1234> don't ask me why, i'm looking for the bug report (popey?)
[08:24] <larsu> ali1234: not for me after a dist-upgrade
[08:25] <popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-control-center/+bug/1278063
[08:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1278063 in unity-control-center (Ubuntu) "date and time settings missing unity-control-center-datetime not installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:25] <ali1234> cheers
[08:25] <popey> np
[08:25] <dholbach> ali1234, great, thanks - that made it work
[09:01] <seb128> good morning desktopers!
[09:02] <JackYu> morning:)
[09:02] <popey> Morning
[09:02]  * popey wonders why his keyboard layout keeps (twice in two days) changing on trusty from UK to US
[09:03] <seb128> do you have both configured?
[09:03] <popey> no, only one
[09:03] <seb128> weird
[09:04] <seb128> what's the key combinaison to cycle layouts for you?
[09:04] <seb128> (settings -> text input has it)
[09:04] <popey> super+space, super+shift+space
[09:04] <popey> which if i press, just echos a space
[09:04] <seb128> do you hit those by error maybe?
[09:05] <seb128> hum, k
[09:05] <seb128> dunno then
[09:05] <popey> seemed to happen when i got the new unity settings thing
[09:06] <seb128> what new unity settings?
[09:06] <popey> unity-control-center
[09:07] <popey> may be coincidence, but the layout was fine all last week, only flipped over the weekend. (when ironically I went from the US to UK)
[09:08] <popey> ok, added US to list of layouts, switched to it and switched back and now my kb layout is correct.
[09:08] <popey> odd.
[09:08] <seb128> unity-control-center is like gnome-control-center
[09:08] <seb128> it's only a configuration UI, it has no service/daemon side
[09:09] <seb128> it's not running if you don't and click it
[09:09] <seb128> so not likely it changing your keymaps
[09:10] <popey> hm. No idea then ☻
[09:10] <seb128> me neither...
[09:19] <jibel> I had the same issue with FR->US. I applied latest updates and rebooted, now it's back to french
[09:21] <seb128> jibel, popey: it changed after some upgrades during a session and get back to normal after reboot then?
[09:21] <seb128> do you know what got updated when it happeneD?
[09:26] <jibel> seb128, after an upgrade and a cold boot. I think it was fr in lightdm because I could enter my password but the layout was wrong once logged in. Packages updated during previous upgrade http://paste.ubuntu.com/6908067/
[09:26] <seb128> jibel, thanks (I don't see any obvious candidate for the issue in that list)
[09:27] <mlankhorst> oh btw, hello world :P
[10:01] <lschuetze> Hi, is there a way to get an Indicator without icon with AppIndicator3? I am using python with PyGI currently.
[10:05] <ali1234> no
[10:09] <ritz> larsu, hi, again, wrt https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/959451 . running system-config-printer-applet resolves the issue.  indicator-printer seems to be a wrapper around system-config-print for queue management and printer management
[10:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 959451 in gtk+3.0 (Ubuntu) "Credentials from gnome-keyring is not used while printing" [Low,In progress]
[10:09] <ritz> is there a reason why we do not deprecated this in place of s-c-p
[10:10] <czajkowski> loving Trusty folks thank you :) \o/
[10:24] <lschuetze> Hi, is there a way to get an Indicator without icon with AppIndicator3? I am using python with PyGI currently.
[10:25] <larsu> ritz: s-c-p uses a systray applet and I wrote indicator-printer to be a proper indicator
[10:26] <larsu> ritz: but it's been changed by design to not be an indicator at all anymore
[10:26] <larsu> I just didn't have the time to update it yet
[10:31] <seb128> larsu, the issue (if I read the description correctly) is that there is some acl management the indicator doesn't do
[10:34] <larsu> seb128: according to my last comment on the bug, it seems to be an issue with the print dialog. (I'm not sure right now though, I can't remember the details)
[10:34] <larsu> but yeah, it passes along empty credentials
[10:35] <seb128> what is s-c-p-a doing? can we easily do the same thing as a workaround?
[10:35] <seb128> I don't really understand the issue but it seems like something that would be nice to fix for the lts
[10:38] <larsu> right. I'll look into it later
[10:39] <seb128> larsu, thanks
[10:40] <seb128> larsu, btw, did you see the new comments in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1277370 ?
[10:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1277370 in evince (Ubuntu) "Now used Aiatana design blocks Evince accessibility usage if the current session is not Unity" [Undecided,New]
[10:40] <seb128> larsu, I'm not sure if I screwed the merge, but that's the same thing I was seeing on friday, some keybindings don't work under !Unity
[10:42] <larsu> right
[10:42] <larsu> looks like at least the first comment is about that
[10:42] <larsu> the second one isn't a regression, but we can talk about it
[10:42] <larsu> (changing Ctrl+Left to be used for jumping word when caret navigation is turned on)
[10:43] <larsu> seb128: is ubuntu5 the one from last FridaY?
[10:43] <seb128> (seems reasonable to me)
[10:43] <larsu> ah, seems like it
[10:43] <seb128> yes, ubuntu5 is the one with your fixes
[10:44] <seb128> but I'm not ruling out that I screwed something when I reconsiliated the revisions I forgot to push and your merge request
[10:44] <seb128> can you check that what you get from lp:~ubuntu-desktop/evince/ubuntu bzr bd-do correctly includes the fix your had?
[10:44] <seb128> you
[10:44] <larsu> hm, ubuntu5 crashes on Ctrl+S for me due to a double-free
[10:45] <seb128> urg
[10:45] <larsu> yeah let me check
[10:45] <seb128> same here for ctrl-s
[10:49] <larsu> the caret-navigation thing works fine here
[10:49] <larsu> Ctrl+S is broken in my build as well
[10:52] <seb128> I didn't try the caret navigation, but I had the keybindings not working under g-s on friday
[10:52] <larsu> right, I'll test that after fixing the crash
[10:52] <larsu> I already know the issue, doesn't seem very related to my patches
[10:53] <seb128> the keybindings or the ctrl-S?
[10:53] <larsu> the ctrl+s
[10:53] <larsu> oh, it is :(
[10:53]  * larsu hides in shame
[11:00] <larsu> seb128: gotta go to the doctor and lunch first, though
[11:00] <seb128> larsu, ok, no problem, good luck with the doctor and enjoy lunch!
[11:10] <ritz> larsu, so, updating s-c-p to support indicator features would help ?
[12:28] <desrt> hello europeans and just-returned americans
[12:31] <seb128> desrt, hey, how are you? had a good trip back?
[12:32] <desrt> yup
[12:32] <desrt> very nice
[12:32] <desrt> had a nice ubuntu-using seatmate :)
[12:33] <desrt> it's kinda neat how this sort of thing happens more and more often
[12:33] <seb128> nice
[12:33] <desrt> the usual response these days is at least "oh ya.. i've heard of that" instead of "huh?"
[12:34] <desrt> and every now and then you get someone who has actually tried it :)
[12:48] <mdeslaur> desrt: cool. were they using unity?
[12:48] <desrt> mdeslaur: they didn't have it on their laptop
[12:48] <mdeslaur> oh, I see
[12:49] <desrt> although i ran into another guy once on a bus on the way to the airport who asked for directions... and for some random reason started talking to the guy.... and came to the topic of the fact that i was travelling for free software.... and he said "oh.  i use suse... a friend of mine set it up..."
[12:49] <desrt> i asked him "ah... are you using kde or gnome?"... "uh.... i don't know.... kde, i think?"
[12:49] <mdeslaur> hehe
[12:50] <desrt> when he took it out at the airport, gnome
[12:50] <desrt> tells you all you need to know about the desktop holy wars :)
[12:50] <seb128> ;-)
[12:50] <desrt> "uh... i don't know.... firefox?"
[12:50] <mdeslaur> yes, I have to constantly remind myself that reddit isn't our target market :)
[12:53] <desrt> that guy was cool... environmental engineer from france who was working at a freshwaters facility on lake ontario
[12:53] <desrt> as part of a canada<->france governmental exchange program
[12:53] <desrt> i really like it when non-computer-people are using our stuff
[12:53] <mlankhorst> I like not thinking about the defaults ;)
[13:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: ping?
[13:03] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey
[13:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb!
[13:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: Question about ubuntu-docs?
[13:03] <seb128> sorry, ctrl-W on the wrong screen
[13:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: Question about ubuntu-docs?
[13:04] <seb128> GunnarHj, sure (I'm probably not the best placed to reply about those but I can try)
[13:06] <GunnarHj> seb128: We try to document the "release process" wrt ubuntu-docs. In my world it ought to be easiest to create a source package from lp:ubuntu-docs and upload that, and let lp:ubuntu/ubuntu-docs be automatically updated. Is there anything that speaks against that?
[13:07] <seb128> that sounds good/logical
[13:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: I know that you normally are expected to both commit to the ubuntu branch and upload. That's why I asked.
[13:08] <seb128> well, if the upstream branch is the main location for the package as well that works fine
[13:08] <seb128> that's what we do for most projects nowadays
[13:08] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, thanks, that's what I wanted to hear. :)
[14:46] <Sweetshark> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libetonyek/+bug/1277152/comments/5 <- FYI, Ill stay with internal libetonyek.
[14:46] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1277152 in libetonyek (Ubuntu) "[MIR] libetoneyek needed as b-d for libreoffice" [Low,Won't fix]
[14:46] <seb128> Sweetshark, ok
[16:17] <seb128> larsu, getting anywhere with those evince issues? do you need debug infos from me?
[16:18] <larsu> seb128: nope, preparing a patch for the Ctrl+S issue right now
[16:18] <seb128> larsu, great, thanks
[16:18] <larsu> I haven't been able to reproduce the other issues he mentioned
[16:18] <larsu> do you still have them?
[16:19] <larsu> !Unity not working, I mean
[16:19] <seb128> yes
[16:19] <ubot2> larsu: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[16:19] <seb128> let me retry to be sure
[16:21] <larsu> ubot2: sorry, my bad.
[16:21] <ubot2> Factoid 'sorry, my bad.' not found
[16:21] <larsu> :)
[16:24] <seb128> back
[16:24] <seb128> larsu, sorry, something made user switching really unhappy on my box
[16:24] <seb128> when I log out from sessions I get no X working
[16:25] <seb128> need to test if that's the intel driver updates or lightdm
[16:25] <seb128> larsu, anyway, still the same issue, under gnome-shell e.g f9 doesn't work
[16:42] <larsu> seb128: ah I still had a locally-built version on my machine. I can reproduce with ubuntu5
[16:42] <larsu> now I wonder what the differences were...
[16:43] <seb128> larsu, as said, I don't rule out me screwing up the merge
[16:43] <larsu> it looks fine so far. I'm rebuilding it right now
[16:43] <seb128> there was a conflict in one of the debian/patches and diff on diff can be tricky
[16:43] <larsu> ya :)
[17:22] <sil2100> seb128: ping!
[17:22] <seb128> sil2100, hey
[17:22] <sil2100> seb128: hi! Can I borrow you for some preNEWing? ;)
[17:22] <sil2100> seb128: when do you EOD today?
[17:23] <seb128> sil2100, I'm going for sport in some 10 minutes, but feel free to give me the names and I can review them tomorrow morning when I start
[17:25] <asac> sil2100: noone else we can try?
[17:25] <asac> seb128: https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/landing-003/+packages
[17:25] <asac> unity-scopes-scopes
[17:25] <asac> :)
[17:25] <asac> err unity-scope-scopes
[17:27] <seb128> asac, sil2100: +1 for that source, I just reviewed it, it's a trivial one
[17:27] <sil2100> \o/
[17:27] <popey> grr, seb128 my laptop has just randomly flipped to US layout again!
[17:27] <sil2100> seb128: can you check if the whitelist is updated?
[17:27] <sil2100> (I guess we still need that to be done?)
[17:27] <popey> indicator still shows UK
[17:27] <sil2100> No, wait... hmm
[17:27]  * sil2100 is confused
[17:28] <sil2100> We didn't use CITrain yet for new packages, so I don't even know where from does it take the whitelist
[17:28] <seb128> popey, :/
[17:28] <popey> no idea what's causing it... very odd
[17:29] <kenvandine> popey, you spent a week in the US... we figure you are ready for a change :)
[17:29] <popey> hah
[17:29] <popey> hey, I'm all for eating meat and dancing on tables!
[17:29] <popey> Keyboard layouts however, no.
[17:29] <kenvandine> haha... shhhhhhh
[17:29] <kenvandine> :-D
[17:30] <kenvandine> seb128, remember the greek place we went to a couple years ago?  we went back :)
[17:30] <seb128> kenvandine, did you dance on the table? :p
[17:31] <kenvandine> of course!
[17:31] <seb128> ;-)
[17:39] <larsu> seb128: building evince for hopefully the last time :-/
[17:39]  * larsu really hates accels in 3.10
[17:41] <seb128> :-(
[17:41] <larsu> seems to work now though
[17:41] <seb128> larsu, what was the issue?
[17:41] <larsu> with a small workaround - desrt redid accel handling in 3.12 so I didn't bother to fix it in 3.10
[17:42] <larsu> seb128: the accels from the menu xml don't get picked up by the window
[17:42] <larsu> calling gtk_application_set_accelerator() in addition makes it work
[17:42] <seb128> k
[17:42] <larsu> the Ctrl+S issue was my mistake
[17:42] <larsu> I'll mr both in the same branch
[17:42] <seb128> hopefully we are gold this time ;-)
[17:42] <larsu> ya....
[17:43] <seb128> feel free to just commit to your git and point me to the commits
[17:43] <seb128> e.g don't bother with quilt if you don't want to
[17:43] <seb128> I can easily cherrypick diffs
[17:43] <larsu> I already imported it into the package because I wanted to makes sure it works this time
[17:43] <seb128> k
[17:43] <larsu> by building the package itself
[17:43] <larsu> (hence the wait...)
[17:44] <seb128> larsu, take your time, I've to go for sport so that's going to be for tomorrow for me anywa
[17:44] <seb128> have a nice evening everyone
[17:44] <seb128> see you tomorrow
[17:44] <larsu> seb128: enojoy!
[17:44] <larsu> *enjoy
[17:44] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[17:49] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, is it possible for you to try running the key grabber AP tests again with this branch? it just adds some extra debug output: https://code.launchpad.net/~attente/compiz/debug-gnome-key-grabber
[18:45] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yeah, I'll do that now.
[20:05] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I have some results from the debugging you asked me to do.
[20:10] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, hey, thanks
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: So I ended up just using printf's instead because I couldn't get Compiz debug output to work on my setup.
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: But this is what was ouputted when I ran the failing test:
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> grad 38 0xd
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> ungrab 38 0xd
[20:12] <ChrisTownsend> Err, grab
[20:14] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, is there any more than that?
[20:15] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Not when the test is ran.
[20:15] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: There is more when Compiz starts.  Do you need that?
[20:16] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, did you replace all of the compLogMessage's? i'm hoping you didn't happen to miss some of them
[20:16] <attente_> (btw i was adding the --verbose flag to unity to get them to appear)
[20:16] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: This is only for the test_grab_accelerator test that is failing.
[20:16] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yes, all of the one's you added.
[20:17] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Oh, --verbose?  I was using --debug.  Let me switch it back and try that, but I think it will be the same.
[20:17] <attente_> oh ok
[20:18] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, do global shortcuts work at all for you?
[20:18] <attente_> i mean the ones that g-s-d normally provides
[20:18] <attente_> like the volume up/down buttons
[20:18] <attente_> or the next/previous input source ones
[20:19] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Doesn't appear they are.
[20:20] <attente_> so bizarre... :S
[20:20] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: So the same thing with --verbose.
[20:21] <attente_> ok
[20:22] <attente_> can you try again: dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.Shell --print-reply /org/gnome/Shell org.gnome.Shell.GrabAccelerator string:'<Shift><Control><Alt>a' uint32:0
[20:23] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Ok
[20:23] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Then dbus-monitor?
[20:23] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, what is the reply for that send?
[20:24] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, it seems so strange that the tests fail and none of the g-s-d keybindings work
[20:24] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: method return sender=:1.875 -> dest=:1.887 reply_serial=2
[20:24] <ChrisTownsend>     uint32 2
[20:24] <attente_> but your alt+f is still opening in the panel
[20:24] <attente_> correct?
[20:25] <ChrisTownsend> Yes, alt+f opens the menu in the Panel.
[20:25] <attente_> that suggests to me that the key grabber dbus server is down
[20:25] <attente_> ok, now 'dbus-monitor member=AcceleratorActivated'
[20:25] <attente_> and ctrl+shift+alt+a again
[20:26] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Nothing is outputted.
[20:27] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.Shell --print-reply /org/gnome/Shell org.gnome.Shell.UngrabAccelerator uint32:2
[20:28] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Ok
[20:28] <attente_> any reply?
[20:29] <ChrisTownsend> method return sender=:1.875 -> dest=:1.890 reply_serial=2
[20:29] <ChrisTownsend>      boolean true
[20:31] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, do you have any special compiz plugins installed?
[20:32] <attente_> hmm.. no that can't be it...
[20:33] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, can you killall gnome-settings-daemon?
[20:33] <attente_> then try again dbus-send --session --dest=org.gnome.Shell --print-reply /org/gnome/Shell org.gnome.Shell.GrabAccelerator string:'<Shift><Control><Alt>a' uint32:0
[20:34] <attente_> i'm wondering why g-s-d doesn't seem to be registering its accelerators
[20:35] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Umm, this may be telling.  There is no gnome-settings-daemon process running.
[20:36] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I'm going to reboot and see if it comes back.
[20:36] <attente_> wow, that's really strange
[20:36] <attente_> ok
[20:36] <ChrisTownsend> It is strange.
[20:38] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Still no g-s-d.  What is up with my system?????
[20:38] <attente_> :(
[20:39] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I can start it manually, right?
[20:39] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, 'start gnome-settings-daemon'
[20:39] <attente_> i hope so...
[20:39] <attente_> but it's weird that it's in such a state as to not start with the session
[20:40] <ChrisTownsend> Yeah, very strange.  It's running now.  I'll try the test and see what happens.
[20:40] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, i guess the tests will still fail
[20:40] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, but i'm wondering if your g-s-d keybindings work again
[20:41] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yes, g-s-d keybindings work now
[20:41] <attente_> ok, can you do 'dbus-monitor member=AcceleratorActivated' again and try using some of those keybindings?
[20:43] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I get no output from those keybindings.
[20:43] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, but the keybindings still have an effect?
[20:43] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yes
[20:44] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, apt-cache policy gnome-settings-daemon
[20:45] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Uh, I didn't notice, but I guess an update overwrote your g-s-d package I installed.  <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu8
[20:45] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, ah, ok
[20:45] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I only installed your package not using your PPA.
[20:46] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, i guess this is still only half the problem though
[20:46] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Right
[20:47] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, can you downgrade g-s-d, restart it, and then dbus-monitor member=AcceleratorActivated again?
[20:47] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yeah, I'll try that.
[20:49] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Bah, it won't let me because the gnome-settings-daemon-schemas cannot be downgraded.
[20:49] <attente_> ooph.
[20:49] <attente_> ok, let me upload a new one
[20:49] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Ok
[20:51] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, ok, i think i see what happened. it must be the g-s-d fork
[20:52] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I think this new package is also when my g-s-d started to fail starting.
[20:54] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, ok, i'll have to apply the changes to unity-settings-daemon instead
[20:54] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, thanks for your help, i'll let you know when it's ready
[20:58] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Ok, np
[21:41] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, do you actually have unity-settings-daemon installed?
[21:43] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I didn't, but now I do.
[21:45] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, i can't seem to replicate the problem where your g-s-d isn't running, mine still runs and i don't have u-s-d installed
[21:47] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: I honestly have no idea why it would not start.  u-s-d starts up on session start though.
[21:47]  * ChrisTownsend Shrugs
[21:47] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, you manually installed u-s-d?
[21:48] <ChrisTownsend> attente_: Yes
[21:48] <attente_> ChrisTownsend, ok, i'm not sure what the right course of action is here
[21:48] <attente_> robert_ancell, hey
[21:48] <robert_ancell> attente_, hello
[21:49] <attente_> robert_ancell, is there an issue where g-s-d wouldn't start up in the unity session because of the fork?
[21:49] <robert_ancell> attente_, did you manually install u-s-d?
[21:49] <attente_> robert_ancell, i didn't, but ChrisTownsend seemed to encounter that problem earlier
[21:49] <robert_ancell> attente_, it was working for me, but it should be opt-in. xnox was playing around with the upstart config though
[21:50] <Laney> buh
[21:50] <Laney> the upstart changes went in
[21:50] <ChrisTownsend> Right, I had latest g-s-d installed with no u-s-d installed and g-s-d would not start on session start up.  I manually installed u-s-d and not u-s-d starts fine.
[21:50] <Laney> -start on started dbus and starting gnome-session
[21:50] <ChrisTownsend> s/not/now
[21:50] <xnox> attente_: please do $ apt-cache policy libunity-core-6.0-8 gnome-settings-daemon unity-settings-daemon
[21:51] <Laney> +start on started dbus and starting gnome-session INSTANCE!=ubuntu
[21:51] <Laney> that is bad if we don't pull in u-s-d in some way
[21:51] <xnox> Laney: there is an override in libunity-core-6.0-8 to start gnome-settings-daemon, if there is no unity-settings-daemon, until unity-settings-daemon is pulled in by default.
[21:52] <xnox> attente_: and paste the output somewhere =)
[21:52] <attente_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6911569/
[21:52] <attente_> xnox, ^
[21:53] <attente_> xnox, but this isn't my issue i guess, somehow ChrisTownsend got into that state
[21:53] <ChrisTownsend> Ah, libunity-core-6.0-8 was uninstalled due to me installing libunity-core-6.0-9 from the Unity daily-build PPA.
[21:54] <xnox> ChrisTownsend: yeap, that would make things bad...
[21:54] <attente_> bah. ok. my fault, sorry ChrisTownsend!
[21:54] <xnox> robert_ancell: how far up the stack are we to make unity-settings-daemon the default?
[21:54] <Laney> man, that is weird
[21:54] <Laney> I'd have just waited before uploading it and done all the changes at once
[21:54] <ChrisTownsend> Sorry guys for my Frankenstein system!
[21:54] <xnox> ChrisTownsend: attente_: sorry about that, I should make merge proposal into unity.
[21:55] <robert_ancell> xnox, "far up the stack"?
[21:55] <xnox> Laney: that's what I wanted, that's why i had it blocked in -proposed.
[21:55] <xnox> Laney: but somehow we ended up thinking on friday that gnome-settings-daemon is good to be unblocked into release pocket....
[21:57] <xnox> robert_ancell: there was a tracking bug to switch dependencies, wasn't there?
[21:57] <robert_ancell> xnox, bug 1277487
[21:57] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1277487 in unity-greeter (Ubuntu) "Create Unity Settings Daemon so can remain on old GNOME Settings Daemon version" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277487
[21:57] <xnox> right that.
[22:04] <xnox> robert_ancell: i guess we can seed unity-settings-daemon & gnome-settings-daemon.
[22:04] <xnox> actually seed unity-settings-deamon only and drop gnome-settings-daemon.
[22:05] <xnox> unity-s-d will pull in g-s-d-schemas and those remaining applications that depend on gnome-settings-daemon will pull it in, until we do all the uploads for s/gnome-settings-daemon/gnome-settings-daemon-schemas/
[22:07] <kgunn> robert_ancell: yo!
[22:07] <robert_ancell> kgunn, how's is going?
[22:07] <robert_ancell> sure
[22:22] <xnox> tedg: how do i land https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/indicator-session/unity-settings-daemon/+merge/205421 ? it's all good to go.
[22:24] <tedg> xnox, thostr is the landing engineer for that project, so you'll have to ask him.
[22:24] <tedg> xnox, He'll have to get it into the silo request spreadsheet, and then... there's process.
[22:30] <xnox> tedg: what does a landing engineer means? why can't i be the lander of this branch? Surely anyone who can dput should be able to be the "landing" engineer.
[22:30] <tedg> xnox, One would think.
[22:31] <xnox> thostr, if you are in current working timezone and not on vacation and not otherwise swamped with high priority work, what needs to happen to land above branch into the archive?
[22:31] <xnox> tedg: i have this wonderful command called "dput" and it's a pretty good landing robot =)
[22:32] <tedg> xnox, It would be against the release process for me to recommend distro patching it and saving yourself a day's work.
[22:39] <ali1234> hi tedg, how is the indicator stuff going?
[22:43] <Laney> xnox: I'm not sure I knew that the upstart stuff was in there
[22:43] <Laney> thought it was just the split
[22:44] <Laney> oh well
[22:44] <xnox> Laney: well, it was all of our changes as well -> that is: g-s-d start on !=ubuntu and u-s-d start on =ubuntu
[22:44] <xnox> trickery that we designed.
[22:44] <Laney> yeah I guess I got the wrong end of the stick
[22:44] <Laney> thought they would just be put into bzr
[22:44] <xnox> to be fair, if i didn't upload, i would have lost context about the "solution" by today =)
[22:45] <xnox> Laney: they were committed into version control, -proposed branch... using dput. =)))))))) that's my preferred version control system these days.
[22:46] <Laney> heh
[22:46] <tedg> ali1234, Eh, okay.  Getting bogged down in non-code stuff, but I very much have fixing that on the TODO list.
[22:47] <ali1234> tedg: we really need the fix for xubuntu, because we want to land gtk3 indicators this cycle, and currently our testers cannot test it
[22:47] <ochosi> +1
[22:48] <xnox> ali1234: is there something you need sponsoring?
[22:48] <xnox> ali1234: i am also indicator developer.
[22:48] <tedg> ali1234, I understand, sorry to take this long on it.
[22:49] <ali1234> xnox: i have a MR that goes on top of the existing upstart indicator work
[22:49] <xnox> ali1234: link?
[22:49] <ali1234> https://code.launchpad.net/~a-j-buxton/libindicator/remove-timeout/+merge/198070
[22:50] <tedg> xnox, It's basically finishing the session service transition for indicators.
[22:50] <tedg> We can't land that until I get all the indicators cleaned up.
[22:51] <ochosi> tedg: how many are missing atm?
[22:51] <tedg> ochosi, messaging is the big one, but I think some of the others aren't right.  They're not using the Upstart XDG dirs, so they're kinda flaky.
[22:51] <xnox> tedg: chicken and egg, eh? can't have both no-trigger-activation and auto-shutdown.
[22:52] <ali1234> xnox: exactly, it causes a race condition
[22:52] <tedg> It's really more about ditching all the process management code in libindicator, it fights with whoever *should* be managing the process.
[22:52] <xnox> tedg: or do we have a lifecycle manager to start us up?
[22:52] <xnox> (on the phone that is)
[22:53] <tedg> On the phone Upstart does the session management.
[22:53] <tedg> Or, management of the session.
[22:53] <tedg> Technically "session management" is done by unity-mir.
[22:53] <tedg> Wow, I'm not really sure I cleared anything up there.
[22:58] <ochosi> tedg: hm, is there an ETA/deadline for the indicator work to be finished?
[22:58] <Laney> feature freeze is in 10 days :-)
[22:58] <tedg> ochosi, I think the... yes, what Laney said :-)
[22:59] <ali1234> yeah but since you already cunningly half-pushed the changes, technically FF does not apply :)
[23:00] <ochosi> well, does it apply to xubuntu then if we push the gtk3-indicator-related stuff after FF?
[23:00] <ali1234> yes
[23:01] <ali1234> this is the exact same situation that caused them not to get landed last cycle
[23:01] <Laney> sure it does, the rest of the changes are still features
[23:01] <Laney> it'd be polite to give flavours time to get their ducks in a row before feature freeze too ...
[23:01] <ali1234> +1
[23:02]  * ochosi admits he was asking rhetorically, trying to make a point
[23:02] <Laney> to the bed-mobile!
[23:02] <ochosi> well i guess we should half-cunningly push our changes then
[23:02] <ali1234> yeah
[23:03] <ali1234> well it would help if upstream would do a release too
[23:03] <ochosi> yeah, i sent an email about that a few days ago (still waiting for a reply)
[23:04] <ochosi> don't think we have any more time to wait
[23:08] <ali1234> ochosi: worst case we can always stuff the workaround variable somewhere in the xfce environment