[11:52] <caribou> Hello people, When rebooting an instance with cloud-init, should the netplan configuration be re-generated ? There is LP: #1847583 that reports this bug but nothing has happened about it
[18:16] <falcojr> caribou: by default we don't expect the configuration to be regenerated every boot
[18:16] <falcojr> but using the userdata from this example, you should be able to
[18:16] <falcojr> https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/events.html#examples
[19:24] <ziirish> Hi falcojr, thanks for the hints. I'm working with caribou on this issue and have already tried this piece of configuration but it doesn't seem to be working either
[19:28] <redkrieg> Hi all, I just ran in to an issue where recent versions of cloud-init weren't able to validate users entries with groups defined.  I found that groups in the schema was changed to only accept a string (instead of an array of strings).  Here's the schema entry: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/main/cloudinit/config/schemas/schema-cloud-config-v1.json#L36 and here's the docs showing
[19:28] <redkrieg> multiple examples that are not currently functional: https://cloudinit.readthedocs.io/en/latest/topics/examples.html#including-users-and-groups
[19:29] <redkrieg> my intuition says that it should be an array type with string items like ssh_authorized_keys, is this a known regression?
[19:44] <redkrieg> just verified the handler for a list of groups instead of a string is still in the codebase.  I'll submit a small PR to update the schema unless this was intended.  https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/blob/be19a484e1282e2720ddb357cffce7d70f8bbacf/cloudinit/distros/ug_util.py#L27
[19:54] <falcojr> redkrieg: looks like a case we missed. PR would definitely be welcome
[19:57] <falcojr> ziirish: if you want to open a new bug on launchpad (the one referenced refers to switching instances which is a different use case) with some more context, and post the output from "cloud-init collect-logs", we should be able to take a closer look
[20:13] <ziirish> falcojr: I think I just found what's wrong. The datasource NoCloud doesn't seem to be registered to the BOOT event
[20:15] <ziirish> Do you know if there is any reason for that? If not, I can work on a PR
[20:28] <redkrieg> ran in to an issue running tests with Python 3.10, Sequence can no longer be imported directly from collections and must come from collections.abc instead.  min version on the new path is Python 3.3, but I'm having trouble finding anywhere that specifies what versions of Python cloud-init supports.  If it's 3.3+ I think we can safely change the test, no?
[20:40] <redkrieg> the test in question is lowest-supported-dev, I just realized it's in the pytest library.  looks like lowest-supported-deps specifies pytest==3.3.2 which is broken in Python 3.10
[20:53] <ziirish> falcojr: sorry for the noise, the NoCloud Datasource is indeed listening this event but according to the logs: "Allowed events: {<EventScope.NETWORK: 'network'>: {<EventType.BOOT: 'boot'>}}", but it's not the event it receives, instead I see "Event Denied: scopes=['network'] EventType=boot-legacy". I have then added "boot-legacy" in the "when" list but it doesn't show up in the allowed events... I'll
[20:53] <ziirish> have to dig deeper into that next week
[21:05] <falcojr> ziirish: you shouldn't need to use BOOT_LEGACY for anything. If you can post the cloud-init.log, I might be able to dig in more. There's no message about 'Applying network configuration' on subsequent boots?
[21:06] <falcojr> redkrieg: Python 3.6+, so yes, we should be able to change that test. Though which test? I thought we had already taken care of all of the collections.abc imports
[21:09] <redkrieg> in tox.ini the lowest-supported-deps section includes pytest==3.3.2 which is before they switched to collections.abc
[21:10] <redkrieg> I don't know enough about why that specific version was chosen to say what the new "lowest supported" should be
[21:14] <redkrieg> > To obtain these versions, check the versions of these libraries in the oldest support Ubuntu distro.
[21:20] <redkrieg> I see, bionic shipped 3.3.2 so that makes sense.  I'm not sure what to do about the tests failing on jammy without breaking bionic and I think perhaps focal too
[21:22] <redkrieg> I'm going about this all wrong.  I'll spin up a focal VM for testing my groups schema PR Monday.  the tests failing on jammy aren't really my problem
[21:24] <falcojr> redkrieg: correct, we use 3.3.2 because of Bionic. Which tests though? We run 3.6-3.11 in our CI and haven't seen any issues
[21:27] <redkrieg> falcojr: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/zyGkP76nrp/
[21:28] <redkrieg> if you need the full output let me know
[21:29] <falcojr> redkrieg: oooh, I'll only run that env from python 3.6.
[21:29] <falcojr> if things pass for you otherwise, feel free to ignore that for now. I can try to make that a little clearer in the docs or in our tox file
[21:31] <redkrieg> rgr that, thanks for the help
[21:40] <redkrieg> falcojr: the "Please add the Canonical Project Manager or contact" on the contributor agreement is required and I don't know what to put there
[21:41] <falcojr> you can put James Falcon
[21:42] <redkrieg> thanks
[21:46] <falcojr> redkrieg: FYI, if you're going to put up a PR soon, do a rebase before. Just merged a fix to an unrelated CI failure
[22:03] <redkrieg> rgr that.  do you think this needs more than one test case?
[22:20] <redkrieg> falcojr: PR submitted, please let me know if there's anything else that should be tested https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1545
[22:33] <falcojr> Sounds good thanks!


[00:15] <tonyyarusso> nalioth: Thank you.
[00:17] <nalioth> jpds: that's not entirely true
[09:19] <jpds> nalioth: For yours, yes. :P
[11:24] <czajkowski> jussi01: *ping*
[11:24] <jussi01> czajkowski: pong - if you are quick :)
[11:25] <czajkowski> jussi01: can you pm me that address again please
[22:27] <ubot4> In #ubuntu-sv, DKcross said: !ubuntusv is http://ubuntusv.org
[22:33] <ubot4> In #ubuntu-sv, DKcross said: !foo is bar
[23:50] <jpds> Nafallo: what did you do!?
[23:50] <jpds> ;-)


[00:27] <ripps> oh please! someone backport this into the ati driver, kms xv is horrible right now. http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-driver-ati/2010-February/013827.html
[04:09] <bjsnider> does dh_installdocs normally look for a file called "faq" to install?
[04:13] <bjsnider> oh, wait. i see where it's getting these instructions
[04:45] <bjsnider> there's a guy in +1 that is using an nvidia card, doesn't have the nvidia or nouveau ddx driver running, but has working glxgears
[07:03] <RAOF> bjsnider: Define “working glxgears”.  glxgears should produce a picture with *any* DDX, and glxinfo should report direct rendering for pretty much any DDX, including VESA.
[07:08] <bryceh> RAOF, see on phoronix fedora has 3d on nouveau?
[07:09] <tjaalton> yes
[07:09] <bryceh> hi tjaalton, how goes?
[07:09] <tjaalton> but they have bskeggs so it's ok :)
[07:10] <tjaalton> bryceh: hey, pretty busy with life. two exams left and the damn thesis..
[07:11] <bryceh> tjaalton, plus all the kids... how do you do it?
[07:11] <bryceh> tjaalton, graduation coming soon?
[07:11] <tjaalton> and problems with nfsv4 which is holding back the thesis, but hopefully those are resolved soon
[07:12] <bryceh> nfsv4... my old life...
[07:12] <tjaalton> bryceh: the deadline is July 31st, but the thesis should be ready by the time lucid is released
[07:12] <tjaalton> and I haven't even started writing yet
[07:15] <RAOF> Urgh.
[07:15] <RAOF> bryceh: Yeah, tjaalton pointed me at dri
[07:16] <RAOF> Fedora's dri-drivers-experimental package, and I learnt just how awesome debian source packaging is :)
[07:17] <bryceh> hehe
[07:17] <RAOF> Versus “just throw it in the .spec file”.
[07:19] <tjaalton> bryceh: yeah, it's part of the new environment based on AD/krb5, and installs from altiris. quite a transition from full *nix-platform to one where "money is no object"
[07:19] <tjaalton> including an exchange cluster which has a TB of memory :P
[07:19] <bryceh> whoa
[07:19]  * bryceh shudders @ exchange
[07:19] <tjaalton> yeah, scalability and all that..
[07:20] <bryceh> my dad has been a total windows junkie, but this weekend he had me wipe his laptop and put ubuntu on it... and he's extremely happy
[07:21] <bryceh> I'd given him a netbook with ubuntu (one of those poulsbo-based ones) a while ago, so he knew what it was like
[07:21] <tjaalton> my parents have yet to join the computing world. they're a bit old for that though (~70y)
[07:21] <bryceh> his laptop is nvidia hardware, and I just set up -nv!  He was happy since he got video, flash, and all that working fine
[07:22] <bryceh> I thought maybe I'd hold off on putting him on -nvidia and move him to nouveau once lucid's out
[07:24] <tjaalton> good plan
[07:28] <bryceh> hi ara
[07:28] <ara> hey bryceh
[07:32] <RAOF> bryceh: The lack of proper 18bit dithering didn't bother him?  I guess he might not know anything different.
[07:32] <bryceh> I could see it, but he didn't seem to mind
[07:33] <bryceh> I figured, "Hey, he's happy, don't push it.  Expectations low means plenty of room to improve from."  ;-)
[07:33] <bryceh> RAOF, he was about ready to chuck the hardware and buy a new laptop, so this saved him a bundle
[07:34] <bryceh> really all he uses the computer for is playing farmville and watching hulu
[07:36] <RAOF> :)
[12:23] <jcristau> Sarvatt: managed to get efifb->i915 working by enabling CONFIG_VT_HW_CONSOLE_BINDING
[12:36] <BUGabundo>  pastebinit /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old   http://paste.ubuntu.com/377558/
[12:36] <BUGabundo> I booted and got a green screen and no TTY
[12:36] <BUGabundo> CAD on TTY1 rebooted , and it was all fine
[14:54] <Sarvatt> hmm odd jcristau - CONFIG_VT_HW_CONSOLE_BINDING=y in the ubuntu kernels
[15:01] <BUGabundo> eh
[15:55] <Sarvatt> ahh crap, no wonder mesa stopped building, the gallium rules file I was keeping around got overwritten by the karmic rules file
[15:56] <BUGabundo> bah
[15:56] <BUGabundo> so that's why I have no 3D ?
[15:59] <Sarvatt> yep
[16:00] <Sarvatt> now the nouveau api is completely screwed, not sure nouveau will build against this older libdrm
[16:02] <BUGabundo> err
[16:02] <BUGabundo> would that also explain my fail to boot, I pasted earlier ?
[16:08] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: Maximum number of clients reachedkmail: cannot connect to X server :0.0
[16:08] <BUGabundo> I'm having a serious problem launching new windows after a few hours
[16:08] <BUGabundo> and have to reboot
[16:10] <Sarvatt> what the heck do you have using 512 clients?
[16:11] <BUGabundo> how do i check how many I have?
[16:11] <BUGabundo> cause I know I don't
[16:11] <BUGabundo> one gnome terminal, one chromium, two pidgin, one gwibber
[16:11] <BUGabundo> that's all windows I have opened
[16:12] <BUGabundo> $ ps auxw | wc -l
[16:12] <BUGabundo> 199
[17:49] <BUGabundo> Sarvatt: fresh boot, while aptitude upgrading http://paste.ubuntu.com/377756/
[17:50] <BUGabundo> [17:50] <BUGabundo> /lib/libc.so.6(+0x76a66)[0x7fcf5d23ba66]
[17:54] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: do you think it's related to nouveau? :)
[17:54] <BUGabundo> kklimonda: it was the only update (mesa) I got on this reboot
[17:54] <BUGabundo>  17:54:23 up 10 min,  3 users,  load average: 0.09, 0.61, 0.52
[17:55] <BUGabundo> I want to grab a snack, close the lit of my laptop , set to turn off screen only), when I came back, I couldn't interact with it, everything seemed to work, other then the LCD
[17:56] <BUGabundo> so I jumped to TTY1 blingly and pressed CAD, fsck the disks, rebooted, aptitude upgrade X stuff, and got that
[17:56] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: I had the same bug
[17:56] <kklimonda> BUGabundo: check dmesg
[17:56] <kklimonda> there should be something around the time lcd shut down for good
[17:57] <BUGabundo> $ dmesg | pastebinit
[17:57] <BUGabundo> http://paste.ubuntu.com/377760/
[17:57] <BUGabundo> nothing usefull there
[17:57] <BUGabundo> oh on past boot
[17:58] <kklimonda> not even boot but the whole last session :)
[19:17] <pgraner> bryceh: mind if I add a multi-head column to the nouveau testing wiki?
[19:18] <bryceh> pgraner, ok
[19:19] <bryceh> pgraner, better make it 'dual-head' for clarification
[19:19] <pgraner> bryceh: I have a few multi-head cards and I'm finding nouveau is failing on the higher end ones
[19:19] <pgraner> bryceh: ack
[19:19] <bryceh> pgraner, since -nvidia can do >2 heads, but -nv doesn't
[19:20] <pgraner> bryceh: wildo
[19:22] <Sarvatt> alot of complication with nouveau lately like I expected, they completely broke libdrm so it needs a nouveau module that wont be upstream until 2.6.34 so if we did a git snapshot that libdrm or a release if they do one soon it wouldnt work with our lbm-nouveau now
[19:32] <Sarvatt> ugh looks like mesa requires that new libdrm-nouveau1 now as well so I can't skirt around it


[00:27] <wallyworld_> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wallyworld/launchpad/link-bugs-in-merge-proposal/+merge/34826
[00:28] <wallyworld_> rockstar: ^^^^^^ you still around? Can you plz give the latest screenshot (#3, in comments) the tick of approval?
[00:31] <rockstar> wallyworld_, ah, yes.
[00:31] <rockstar> wallyworld_, looks fine to me.
[00:32] <wallyworld_> rockstar: awesome, thanks
[01:12] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/bug-618367/+merge/35489
[01:12] <lifeless> rockstar: ^ perhaps you could eyeball that, its go a small UI caveat.
[01:12] <lifeless> rockstar: (A full review would be better, and only a little more effort :P)
[01:24]  * lifeless looks for a reviewer
[01:24] <lifeless> hmm
[01:24] <lifeless> mwhudson: oh hai
[02:14] <lifeless> thumper: around?
[02:22] <rockstar> lifeless, hi.  Still need a review?
[02:23] <lifeless> please
[02:23] <lifeless> this should squash Distribution:+assignments
[02:25] <lifeless> which is in https://devpad.canonical.com/~stub/ppr/lpnet/latest-daily-timeout-candidates.html
[02:25] <lifeless> as number 2 yesterday
[02:28] <rockstar> lifeless, ugh at blueprints...
[02:29] <lifeless> rockstar: yeah, But its holding us back.
[02:29] <lifeless> so, I fixinate.
[02:30] <rockstar> lifeless, yeah.  I just hate that we have to pay the maintainer's penalty for that code at all.
[02:30] <lifeless> me too
[02:30] <lifeless> still, it could be worse.
[02:30] <rockstar> lifeless, one day, a happy community member may take it over.
[02:30] <lifeless> mtaylor will if we can just get him over the activation energy needed to get starting
[02:36] <lifeless> rockstar: so what do you think ?
[02:36] <rockstar> lifeless, can you give me a brief explanation of BatchNavigator?
[02:36] <lifeless> did you see my peformance tuesday mail ?
[02:37] <lifeless> I may have been too brief in it. So yes, I can and will explain.
[02:37] <lifeless> BN adapts iterables in general, ResultSets in specific for use in batches
[02:37] <lifeless> it is used by the API and by various web pages (e.g. branch listing, bug listings, email moderation as of yesterday, ...)
[02:38] <lifeless> we should probably combine it with HugeVocab's guts
[02:39] <lifeless> its currentBatch() function returns a slice of the iterable
[02:39] <lifeless> (perhaps it adapts slicable, more specificlly?..)
[02:40] <lifeless> the batch navigator object itself is used for generation of navigation links, popups and so on in the navigation view/templates
[02:40] <rockstar> lifeless, and how does this affect performance?
[02:41] <rockstar> If you already have the ResultSet, hasn't the query already been run?
[02:41] <lifeless> as long as you give it a resultset, not a listfied-resultset, its better
[02:41] <lifeless> rockstar: no, ResultSets are lazy
[02:41] <lifeless> len(rs) -> COUNT(*)
[02:41] <lifeless> list(rs) -> SELECT ...
[02:41] <lifeless> list(rs) again -> SELECT. ... (again(
[02:41] <rockstar> lifeless, so it somehow combines all the queries that need to run to get their resultsets?
[02:42] <lifeless> slice = rs[1:3]
[02:42] <lifeless> list(slice) -> SELECT ... OFFSET 1 LIMIT 3
[02:42] <rockstar> lifeless, yeah, so how does the BatchNavigator make it faster?
[02:42] <lifeless> rockstar: no, the thing you adapt (in this case, self.specs) needs to be a single resultset that will Do The Right Thing
[02:42] <lifeless> rockstar: two ways
[02:42] <lifeless> firstly, by not bring back everything.
[02:43] <lifeless> 'specs' in the Ubuntu context has 3000 rows
[02:43] <rockstar> Ah, so it gives you a 500 slice.
[02:43] <lifeless> this patch means we'll only bring back 500 of them.
[02:44] <lifeless> secondly, the database can (in some circumstances) do less work when returning an LIMIT result (if the indices support that)
[02:44] <rockstar> lifeless, ah, okay.
[02:44] <rockstar> So if BatchNavigator makes a single resultset that will Do The Right Thing, what was the wrong thing?
[02:44] <lifeless> and thats very important in gigantic collections (like ubuntu bugs)
[02:45] <rockstar> Just returning 3000 results?
[02:45] <lifeless> but in our case its only the first thing we care about
[02:45] <lifeless> rockstar: BN takes a single result set and slices it.
[02:45] <lifeless> rockstar: the wrong thing is returning a very large slice to template code to iterate over.
[02:45] <rockstar> lifeless, ah!  I see.
[02:45] <lifeless> rockstar: particularly when that may grow without bound.
[02:46] <lifeless> every UDS we add 500 or so specs
[02:46] <lifeless> maybe its only 250. Anyhow, lots.
[02:46] <rockstar> lifeless, we have this pattern in a few places.  I wonder if it might be of interest in bring up on the the list a way to create a GenericListing page that already has some of the performance stuff built in.
[02:47] <rockstar> Er, we have this pattern of doing listings of many objects (sometimes without bound).
[02:47] <lifeless> well, BN is the generic solution
[02:47] <rockstar> lifeless, so would you suggest that BN be used in all listing pages?
[02:47] <lifeless> note that the template code is pretty close to being entirely reusable
[02:48] <lifeless> rockstar: we should use it whereever the folllowing is true:
[02:48] <rockstar> lifeless, are there any cases where BN might not be the best solution?
[02:48] <lifeless>  - the listing can grow and grow to more than is useful for a human on the page
[02:48] <lifeless>  - or the rows are very expensive to generate (and we've checked the sql and *everything*)
[02:50] <lifeless> rockstar: you'd be best to ask curtis that last one.
[02:51] <lifeless> I'm not sure if its ready for use on a page that shows several distinct collections
[02:51] <lifeless> like +activereviews
[02:51] <lifeless> but OTOH +activereviews is meant to be self limited
[02:51] <lifeless> by only showing a work queue
[02:51] <lifeless> rockstar: I'd certainly consider using BN if I had a listing of hundreds or thousands of things.
[02:52] <lifeless> rockstar: AFAIK its the only pagination solution we have
[02:52] <rockstar> lifeless, okay.  Thanks for the run-down.
[02:52] <lifeless> anytime
[02:52] <rockstar> lifeless, why 123	+            person_ids.discard(None)
[02:53] <lifeless> because assignee etc can be NULL
[02:53] <rockstar> Ah, okay.
[02:53] <lifeless> and we don't want to query for Person where Person.id==NULL
[02:53] <lifeless> phrased as Person.id in (NULL, 1, 4, 5) I suspect bad things happen :)
[03:00] <rockstar> lifeless, r=me
[03:04] <lifeless> thanks!
[03:27] <jtv> lifeless: I believe the current procedure for db patches is to get reviews from stub and you
[03:30] <lifeless> jtv: https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess
[03:30] <jtv> lifeless: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/translationtemplatesbuild/+merge/34952
[03:30] <jtv> :-)
[03:30] <jtv> "Say it with URLs"
[03:31] <lifeless> jtv: well the answer is 'no'
[03:31] <lifeless> but I thought more info than that would help you.
[03:31] <jtv> "Submit a merge proposal for your branch into lp:launchpad (lp:~launchpad-pqm/launchpad/db-devel), requesting two db reviews from both the technical architect (lifeless) and the DBA (stub)"
[03:31] <lifeless> yes
[03:31] <lifeless> keep reading
[03:32] <jtv> You mean the "if either is away" part?
[03:32] <lifeless> yes
[03:32] <lifeless> stub is not away
[03:32] <lifeless> so you need his review and the patch # will come from him
[03:32] <lifeless> I'm interested in the change and will look at it
[03:32] <lifeless> but I'm not part of the landing path
[03:34] <jtv> OK, then I wait for stub
[03:38] <jtv> lifeless: I think the wiki page implies the opposite of what you just said though.
[03:39] <lifeless> how so ?
[03:39] <jtv> The wiki page says "request reviews from both the dba and the architect; _if one of them is away_ then just the other is enough."  Just now you said "stub is not away, therefore I am not necessary to the process."
[03:40] <lifeless> thats not quite what it says
[03:40] <lifeless> you always request from both
[03:40] <lifeless> thats what it says
[03:40] <lifeless> and separately
[03:40] <lifeless> If one of the DBA or Technical Architect is away, the other will allocate database patch numbers and provide reviews
[03:41] <jtv> So how is that not what I said?
[03:42] <jtv> It covers those two points, giving an unintentional suggestion that approval by just you _or just stub_ is a backup option for the case where the other is not available.
[03:43] <lifeless> thats the intent
[03:43] <lifeless> only one of us has to approve for it to land
[03:43] <lifeless> And if stub is not on leave, stub does it all.
[03:43] <lifeless> I'm confused
[03:44] <jtv> Then the page should say that.  Right now it implies through omission that stub shouldn't do the review alone unless necessary.
[03:44] <jtv> Wait, wait, I missed a bit.
[03:45] <jtv> It's hidden at the end of point 4.
[03:47] <jtv> (I say "hidden" because when I see this much text, I instantly filter out a lot of it)
[03:49] <jtv> (Particularly so when the text is structured along steps-to-take lines when I want statement-of-essentials or vice versa)
[03:50] <lifeless> If you can improve it, do so :)
[03:50] <jtv> I can try
[04:16] <jtv> lifeless: could you have a look at the top two sections?  I added the first, revised the second, deleted the third.  https://dev.launchpad.net/PolicyAndProcess/DatabaseSchemaChangesProcess
[04:17] <jtv> I deleted the third section because it played into the confusion: when I was scanning for answers, the "help help what to do if either the dba or architect is away" header grabbed priority over the step-by-step recipe text.
[04:19] <jtv> Would it help if we had a launchpad-db review team and had engineers request a single db review from there?
[04:19] <lifeless> the diffs looked fine to me
[04:19] <jtv> Thanks.
[04:20]  * jtv dreams of a "check all review types that apply" in the MP form…
[04:20] <StevenK> jtv: That's a brilliant idea
[04:20] <StevenK> jtv: File a bug?
[04:23] <jtv> StevenK: thanks—but maybe discuss it a bit further to avoid falling into the "I dreamed up this great idea that solves the problem as _I_ encounter it, I'll spec it out in great detail, and then all the engineers have to do is code it up" pattern?
[04:24] <jtv> _Our_ usage pattern is: we have a set of review types, each with one default reviewer, and we may need a combination of those.
[04:24] <jtv> Would anyone else's use differ?
[04:24] <jtv> I don't think so, but I'm not anyone else.  :)
[04:24] <StevenK> jtv: No, that's not the plan. "I had this brilliant idea, let me share it with you, and we can use this usual bug report page to track it."
[04:25] <StevenK> s/usual/useful/
[04:25] <jtv> StevenK: I'm glad that's not the plan, but I for one am human and fallible and often the victim of the very same thing.  :)
[04:26] <jtv> Ah what the hell, you're right.
[04:31] <jtv> Looking through existing bugs list for a match…
[04:42] <jtv> StevenK, lifeless: just filed bug 638631
[04:42] <StevenK> We don't have a bug bot in here? That's rather mean.
[04:53] <jtv> So it would seem.
[06:42] <jtv> stub: want db review!  https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/launchpad/translationtemplatesbuild/+merge/34952
[06:43] <jtv> henninge: good morning—you're not on the other irc
[06:43] <henninge> jtv: Hi! ;)
[06:43]  * henninge reconnects the other irc
[06:48]  * stub looks
[07:06] <stub> TranslationTemplatesBuild instead of TanslationTemplateBuild? If we had a TranslationTemplate table it would be called TranslationTemplate
[07:11] <jtv> stub: well it's a build of all translation templates in a branch, and at that stage we don't even know which those will be.  So there's no a-priory tie to POTemplate.
[07:12] <jtv> It's also consistent with the other class names; I wanted to avoid any impression that the build might belong to a single template, or to any specific template.
[07:13] <jtv> If, in a completely imaginary thought exercise, we renamed POTemplate to TranslationTemplate and wanted to create a reference from this new build class to TranslationTemplate, we'd have m:n and a linking table.
[07:14] <jtv> In that thought exercise, the linking table might be called TranslationTemplateBuild (if it weren't for the confusing similarity in names, of course)
[07:17] <stub> hmm...
[07:20] <jtv> Did I really write a-priory?  I meant a-priori, of course.
[07:21] <stub> SPEAK ENGLISH!
[07:21] <jtv> oi sorry guv
[07:21] <jtv> A Branch goes in, a set of TranslationImportQueueEntrys comes out.  Those later get assigned to respective POTemplates by the queue gardener.
[07:23] <stub> approved anyway
[07:23] <jtv> Thanks.
[10:28] <lifeless> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/decoratedresultset/+merge/35507
[10:40] <lifeless> jml: ^ care to do a micro review to start your day up ?
[10:43] <jml> lifeless, https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1719ED569
[10:45] <lifeless> 'did not match any oops'
[10:48] <jml> lifeless, they take a while to be synced.
[10:48] <lifeless> I know
[10:48] <lifeless> thats on my hit list too
[10:49] <lifeless> but its not there yet.
[10:49] <lifeless> which is the worry
[10:49] <jml> 10 minutes, I thought.
[10:59] <lifeless> jml: this is the more interesting MP - https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/malone/+merge/35511
[11:00] <lifeless> jml: and the oops still isn't visible
[11:02] <lifeless> jml: can you change your vote to approve, because of ec2land ?
[11:02] <jml> lifeless, sure.
[11:03] <lifeless> I really hate that style of function formatting btw
[11:03] <jml> lifeless, I hate the other style :)
[11:03] <lifeless> same as I hate it for function wrapping.
[11:03] <lifeless> I'm doing it, just whinging.
[11:03] <jml> we don't do it for calls :)
[11:03] <lifeless> jml: actually, its one of the 'approved styles'
[11:05]  * jml eyebrows
[11:05] <lifeless> anyhow
[11:06] <lifeless> I shall blithley go on doing everything to the whims of reviewers :>
[11:07] <lifeless> jml: thanks for reviewing the prerequisite
[11:08] <lifeless> still no oops
[11:11] <lifeless> well, I'm off to sleep
[11:12] <jml> lifeless, g'night
[13:19] <bac> hi jtv, you still reviewing?
[13:20] <bac> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bac/launchpad/bug-638420/+merge/35477
[14:23] <jcsackett> salgado, ping. :-)
[14:25] <jtv> bac: sorry, bit late here… I'll update the topic.
[14:26] <salgado> hi jcsackett, I guess your branch is ready for another look?
[14:26] <jcsackett> salgado: yup. sinzui had one comment on it after i pushed up changes that i've dealt with.
[14:26] <jcsackett> so it is ready for you to take another look at.
[14:32] <salgado> cool, I'll do it now
[14:35] <deryck> salgado, hi.  Who is mentoring you for UI reviews?
[14:37] <salgado> deryck, sinzui
[14:37] <deryck> ok, thanks.
[14:37] <deryck> sinzui, could I get your final review of https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~deryck/launchpad/description-editing-ubuntu-font/+merge/35321 which salgado reviewed?
[14:38] <sinzui> I will
[14:40] <sinzui> deryck, salgado your have my r=me. I will update the MP to explain why will *not* be removing UbuntuBeta from any Canonical website
[14:40] <deryck> excellent, thanks!
[14:46] <bac> EdwinGrubbs: i've got a tiny branch when you start reviewing
[14:52] <StevenK> I suspect my branch in the queue is even tinier
[14:52] <salgado> jcsackett, can you give me some URLs for pages that had UI changes?
[14:54] <jcsackett> salgado: the one i've been using is http://launchpad.dev/thunderbird in devel vs in my branch. i can send you a screenshot of the devel version so you don't have to jump between two branches, if you like.
[14:55] <salgado> jcsackett, yeah, that'd be nice, thanks
[14:55] <jcsackett> salgado: the changes are only there if you configure blueprints to the various not on launchpad settings (EXTERNAL, UNKNOWN or NOT_APPLICABLE)
[14:55] <jcsackett> ok, i'll send a screenshot in a moment.
[14:57] <salgado> jcsackett, for the future, in these cases it's nice to add new *dev* sampledata (e.g. projects with blueprints configured to the various possible states) so that one can easily see the changes without having to change the settings on the web UI
[14:57] <salgado> that helps yourself when developing and your UI reviewer. :)
[14:58] <jcsackett> salgado: i hadn't thought of that. i'll keep that in mind, thanks. :-)
[14:58] <EdwinGrubbs> StevenK: I think you meant your if-statement to be    if len(sys.argv) > 1:
[15:00] <salgado> jcsackett, what's the difference between unknown and not_applicable?
[15:00] <EdwinGrubbs> StevenK: actually, you might want to allow the user to supply multiple branches on the command line, so you could set the variable as:     branches = sys.argv[1:]
[15:01] <jcsackett> salgado: unknown is when nothing has been set: so a new project has it as the default. not_applicable represents when a project states they don't use it at all.
[15:01] <StevenK> EdwinGrubbs: Yes, I just came to that conclusion myself :-)
[15:02] <salgado> jcsackett, oh, right, I was confused because the UI seemed to be the same in both cases, but now I see that's not true
[15:02] <jcsackett> it is *very* similar. :-P
[15:03] <StevenK> EdwinGrubbs: Changes pushed
[15:18] <jcsackett> salgado: tar of screenshots here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/375578/blueprints-screenshots.tar.gz
[15:20] <salgado> jcsackett, thanks!
[15:24] <jcsackett> salgado: i found one typo while making those screenshots--i'm pushing up a change that addresses it (not_applicable had the copy "Blah does not use track ..." instead of "Blah does not track ...")
[15:25] <salgado> jcsackett, yeah, I found that too
[15:25] <salgado> :)
[15:25] <salgado> but already sent the review, so just ignore it
[15:27] <jcsackett> will do. :-)
[15:27] <EdwinGrubbs> StevenK: since that script has a chdir() in it, relative path names don't work unless you are already in the directory it's switching to. You can probably fix that by putting the chdir() in the else-block. As long as you have an else-block, you can set branches with listdir() in there instead of before the if-statement.
[16:01] <allenap> EdwinGrubbs: Can I add myself to the queue?
[16:02] <EdwinGrubbs> allenap: sure
[16:02] <allenap> EdwinGrubbs: Thanks :)
[16:28] <EdwinGrubbs>  bac: r=me
[16:29] <bac> thanks edwin
[16:32] <allenap> Do I need to get a database review for security.cfg changes?
[16:36] <bigjools> allenap: I don't think so
[16:36] <allenap> bigjools: Cool, thanks.
[16:37] <bigjools> at least I've not bothered in the past, it affects the code more than the db
[16:47] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: the old findBuild() compared the pocket, distroseries, and archive to determine whether to raise an exception, but storeObjectsInDatabase() only compares the source_package_release. Is this right?
[16:49] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: Yes, the consistency checks from findBuild() have now moved to checkBuild()
[16:49] <jelmer> edwingrubbs: The idea being that checkBuild() always gets called and findBuild() will only get called in some situations (as we may pass the build object in rather than having to look for it).
[16:53] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: if the build argument is passed into storeObjectsInDatabase(), it will effectively skip the build from the first binary_package_file in bpfs_to_create. Is this intended?
[16:55] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: that will only happen if there is a single entry in bpfs_to_create (there's an assert to make sure this is the case)
[16:59] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: would it make it clearer to make the block in the for-loop its own function. Right now, you are effectively passing in build as a parameter to the for-loop, which is why the logic is hard to follow.
[17:01] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: This code is about to change again for the follow-up branch, would it be ok if I improved the logic in that branch instead?
[17:01] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: I see your point though.
[17:01] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: sure
[17:12] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: r=me
[17:12] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs, thanks!
[18:02] <allenap> EdwinGrubbs: Are you reviewing bugsubscription-to-storm or my other branch? I've renamed the other one so any browser windows you have open to the merge proposal will fail form submission. It's now https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~allenap/launchpad/bug-subscription-filter-models-bug-639749/+merge/35546
[18:03] <allenap> EdwinGrubbs: Also, I have to go now; dinner time with the kids. Is that okay?
[18:07] <EdwinGrubbs> allenap: which one do you want me to review? It's fine if you need to leave.
[18:45] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: Would you have time for another review ? It's the follow-up to the other branch that you reviewed.
[18:46] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: sure
[18:50] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs, The MP is at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jelmer/launchpad/506256-remove-popen-2/+merge/35412
[18:51] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: Unfortunately it contains the diff for the other branch as well, since it hasn't landed yet and I already have a different prerequisite branch
[18:58] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: wow, I merged in both archiveuploader-build-handling nad 506256-remove-popen, and 506256-remove-popen-2 is still 1300 lines.
[18:59] <EdwinGrubbs> jelmer: are there any other prereq branches besides those two?
[19:01] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/malone/+merge/35511
[19:02] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: No, there aren't any others. If it's 1300 lines even with those branches merged in, perhaps I should have a look at splititng it up further.
[19:05] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: I'll mark it as on hold for the time being - sorry for the trouble.
[19:05] <EdwinGrubbs> no problem
[19:43] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: hi?
[19:44] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: hi
[19:45] <lifeless> are you reviewing allenaps still ? or I can has review?
[19:46] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: I'll be done with his shortly
[19:46] <lifeless> cool
[19:46] <lifeless> I'm just excited :)
[19:47] <EdwinGrubbs> it's my job as a reviewer to crush excitment
[19:48] <lifeless> nae knave, tis not
[20:02] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: btw - bugsubscription-to-storm - we need a storm base class with cache integration before moving things with cachedproperty around (maybe I'm wrong and it doesn't have any)
[20:04] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: ok, I'm probably only going to review allenap's other branch today.
[20:11] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: do you mean I should another reviewer? (Just occured to me there are multipe parse trees for your statement)
[20:11] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: oh, no. I'll review your branch today, also.
[20:13] <lifeless> cool
[20:59] <jcsackett> EdwinGrubbs: i've got an MP to throw in the queue, are you likely to have time for it?
[21:00] <lifeless> jcsackett: I'm on call now too
[21:00] <lifeless> submarine style
[21:00] <lifeless> jcsackett: whats the MP
[21:00] <jcsackett> lifeless: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jcsackett/launchpad/user-email-existing-account-576757/+merge/35575
[21:00] <jcsackett> it's fairly simple.
[21:00] <EdwinGrubbs> jcsackett: in about 1.5 hours
[21:01] <jcsackett> EdwinGrubbs: unless i'm mistaken, lifeless is offering to take mine.
[21:02] <EdwinGrubbs> oh, nevermind
[21:03] <jelmer> EdwinGrubbs: I've got an updated (smaller) branch when you're back.
[21:03] <lifeless> jcsackett: what is it
[21:03] <lifeless> sorry
[21:03] <lifeless> jelmer: what is it
[21:03] <lifeless> jcsackett: done
[21:06] <lifeless> jelmer: whats the MP url
[21:06] <jelmer> lifeless: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jelmer/launchpad/no-more-buildid/+merge/35572
[21:06] <jelmer> lifeless: removing the --buildid argument from archiveuploader and access to the command line options object from deep inside archiveuploader
[21:08] <jcsackett> lifeless, thanks.
[21:09] <lifeless> jelmer: done
[21:09] <jelmer> lifeless: Thanks!
[21:18] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: I'm pushing up rev 11549 to my branch, just some fine tuning
[21:35] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: review sent. The only comment I have about rev 11549 is the same thing I noted already about store.using(tables) with storm objects.
[21:38] <lifeless> thanks
[21:41] <lifeless> EdwinGrubbs: I might stay with the literal string here
[21:55] <EdwinGrubbs> lifeless: If you stick with string literals, could you format them so they are easier to read? For example, one table per line, and if the conditional is really long, indent it over multiple lines.
[21:56] <lifeless> I'll fiddle with it a little yes
[23:17] <lifeless> I need a review https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~lifeless/launchpad/lessGetLastOops/+merge/35605
[23:17] <lifeless> this may help with the ec2 crashes
[23:18]  * jelmer looks
[23:23] <jelmer> lifeless: r=me


[00:52] <greg-g> Membership Review Board meeting for the America's is getting ready to start, just fyi
[01:45] <jcastro> greg-g: what'd I miss, fill me in wrt: <greg-g> I understand, and I think it should be made clear to managers at Canonical that the membership boards are bound by a "sustained contribution" criteria :/
[01:45] <greg-g> will do, I'll get my log
[01:46] <nhandler> jcastro: beuno is also going to send some email out
[06:16] <vish> hmm, i'm not sure i understand greg-g's logic there either.. by what he mentions on -meeting, every Canonical employee working for more than 6 months automatically qualifies for a membership?
[06:17] <vish> how is it a /contribution/ when it is basically them doing their work?
[06:20] <vish> well, not singling out greg-g.. but most of the Boards are a bit lax there.. IMO, Americas board has been a bit better with giving Memberships for Canonical employees
[06:21] <vish> better == cautious
[06:35] <doctormo> vish: I do agree that ubuntu membership is more than simply being employed by Canonical, but at the same time working on community items even during work hours because it's important for both the community and Canonical does count IMO.
[06:36] <doctormo> Someone working on ubuntu-one probably wouldn't qualify, but someone on the Canonical marketing team might if they have sustained contributions to the community.
[06:36] <vish> let's put it in other words, what different are they going to be doing in the next 2 months?..  for positions such as skeat's, we might as well just give out the memberships when they join Canonical, since she is pretty well going to have to stay atleast for 6 months ;)
[06:39] <vish> doctormo: but very few people show community items (or atleast the few membership i had noticed) … like for example, if we took jcastro his work on askubuntu is community work, (among all the other non-work stuff he does for the community..) there are very few who have shown community participation.
[06:43] <doctormo> vish: working in the community isn't just working in your spare time
[06:43]  * doctormo thinks askubuntu should count against a membership *tongue in cheek!!*
[06:43] <vish> doctormo: yup, not about spare time.. but non-work items..
[06:43] <vish> lol!
[06:43] <doctormo> No, even if Canonical employed someone to work on askubuntu, that counts
[06:44] <doctormo> just because they're paid to do work, doesn't make it any less community.
[06:45] <vish> doctormo: well, that's why i'm saying we can just combine Ubuntu memberships for Canonical employees ;)  and there would be no such issue of when to accept or decide.. :)
[06:45] <vish> the jobs which we consider community work..
[06:46] <doctormo> vish: Well no because Canonical employees aren't working in the community
[06:46] <doctormo> well no many of them
[06:46] <doctormo> In fact interestingly if you look at the numbers of programmers at Canonical and the number of them working on Ubuntu directly... it looks stark.
[06:47] <vish> well, even UbuntuOne can qualify for membership, it does bring revenue to Canonical which in-turn supports Ubuntu..
[06:47] <doctormo> Another example is if there would be a second company, would we grant every employee of that company membership?
[06:48] <doctormo> vish: Supporting ubuntu by proxy doesn't count, that can lead us to daft arguments especially as we can't actually see if it does bring in money as it's all behind doors.
[06:50] <vish> hmm, right.. but if this is the norm, that if they work on "Ubuntu Membership worthy" stuff , just define those and hand out memberships when they join..
[06:52] <doctormo> vish: Then you simply hand Canonical control of membership and that's not supposed to be how it works
[06:53] <doctormo> The community is supposed to decide for itself on a per case basis who has contributed in a sustained way
[06:53] <vish> heh, but we aernt doing any better now.. we are just waiting and handing it out ;)
[06:53] <doctormo> Imagine if the second ubuntu company offered a free hat to all members... it'd be hard to just give one to all Canonical put into a certain position.
[06:54] <doctormo> Ah well, I can't comment on how it's done now, I don't know enough.
[06:54] <vish> the way it seems now is, it's more of a formality and waiting for 6 months, rather than defining what their 'community' work is.
[06:54] <vish> but i may be looking at the wrong part of their wiki too.. :)
[06:55] <doctormo> I would have thought it was easy enough,
[06:55] <doctormo> Any work done for me, is community work, any work done for jono is not ;-)
[06:55] <vish> ;p
[07:04] <doctormo> jono: just watched you on the bay area telly, weird
[07:05] <jono> doctormo, cool :-)
[07:05]  * jono is drunk right now
[07:05] <jono> ask me for my root password :P
[07:05] <nisshh> nows my chance :)
[07:05] <doctormo> I've recovered from my mai-thai I had before, I was wobbling on one drink.
[07:05] <nisshh> jono, can i work for you please? :)
[07:06] <doctormo> nisshh: but you do understand you get no pay :-P
[07:06] <vish>  nisshh would prolly accept pay in booze too..  ;)
[07:08] <nisshh> doctormo, lol
[07:08] <nisshh> vish, oh yeah, im australian, thats how we like our salaries :)
[07:09] <nisshh> jono, your typing is very good for a drunk person on irc :)
[07:09] <jono> nisshh, lol
[07:10] <nisshh> :)
[07:10] <jono> nisshh, yeah, Ia m a decent drunk typer it seems
[07:10] <nisshh> jono, either that or your not that drunk :)
[07:10] <jono> oh  believe me, I am drunk :-)
[07:10] <nisshh> hehe
[07:11] <jono> multiple G+Ts is good
[07:11] <nisshh> heh, where are you anyway jono?
[07:11] <doctormo> jono: I like spiced tonic, 1/3 shot of dry gin, 1 pint of tonic water.
[07:12] <jono> nisshh, at home
[07:12] <jono> doctormo, good :)
[07:12] <nisshh> oh right :)
[07:12] <jono> nisshh, was out in the creek tonight with Adam
[07:12] <doctormo> jono: What I think he means is, where have you been?
[07:12] <nisshh> haha
[07:12] <jono> who is my wife's ex-boyfriend, but one of my best friends :-)
[07:13] <jono> doctormo, I went to a bunch of places in Walnut Creek
[07:13] <nisshh> hehe
[07:13] <doctormo> I love it when that sort of thing happens.
[07:13] <doctormo> Is that like the cape is here?
[07:13] <nisshh> jono, "the creek" being some large place you visit to get drunk? :)
[07:13] <doctormo> Or is it more like the north shore... hmm,
[07:14] <jono> nisshh, the creek is Walnut Creek
[07:14] <jono> we went to a out five bars
[07:14] <jono> a few drinks at each
[07:14] <nisshh> ah, i see
[07:14] <jono> anyhoo
[07:14] <jono> I am headed to bed
[07:14] <jono> you people are wonderful
[07:14] <jono> :-)
[07:15] <jono> all rule Ubuntu :-)
[07:15] <doctormo> jono: All rule ubuntu!
 jono: All rule ubuntu!
[07:15] <nisshh> hehe
[07:15] <jono> you know what, I am determined to make us wi
[07:15] <jono> n
[07:15] <jono> and bring FLOSS to the people
[07:16] <doctormo> jono: Tomorrow I will get you to put one of my new posters up in your local library.
[07:16] <doctormo> That will help with win
[07:16] <jono> doctormo, bring it!
[07:16] <jono> but first...bed
[07:16] <jono> night, all!
[07:16] <doctormo> night
[07:16]  * jono hugs everyone
[07:59] <duanedesign> morning all
[08:09] <kim0> morning folks
[08:13] <dpm> morning kim0
[08:13] <dpm> good morning all
[08:17] <duanedesign> hello
[08:35] <dpm> hey duanedesign
[08:39] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:41] <dpm> hey czajkowski
[08:49] <duanedesign> o/
[09:12] <czajkowski> duanedesign: up late or early
[09:55] <czajkowski> nice post written by @undacuvabrutha http://is.gd/iTfvu
[10:13] <popey> didn't realise the server team had lost 3 people
[10:13] <popey> knew jos had gone
[10:17] <czajkowski> aye Open Stack did well :)
[10:19] <popey> is that where they went?
[10:19] <popey> along with soren
[10:21] <czajkowski> yup
[10:52] <jussi> bleh. someone broke planet u/chromium...
[11:31] <duanedesign> czajkowski: early :)
[11:35] <czajkowski> duanedesign: still up
[11:35] <czajkowski> lordie
[11:36] <duanedesign> went back to sleep for about an hour...
[11:40] <czajkowski> someone had a bad run in with MOTU https://twitter.com/kirrus/statuses/15731370626129920
[11:42] <duanedesign> :(
[11:43] <duanedesign> i hear that a lot about Ubuntu Server, that people woould rather use Debian.
[11:43] <duanedesign> I have had great luck with Ubuntu on my server
[11:45] <czajkowski> nods
[11:45] <czajkowski> well hopefully Robbiew will fix that :)
[11:45] <czajkowski> possibly with another funky video
[11:53] <duanedesign>  that was a good post robbie did
[12:00] <czajkowski> aye
[12:07] <sense> good afternoon
[12:12] <duanedesign> hello sense
[12:21] <sense> hi duanedesign
[12:52] <greg-g> vish: no, that isn't what I mean (every canonical employee get membership after 6 mos) they need to show some kind of activity *outside* of their day-to-day job to get membership. She had that, but she didn't have the time within the Ubuntu community
[12:54] <czajkowski> greg-g: some argue that they don't have t have communuty interaction
[13:00] <dpm> greg-g, for the record, I don't think there is a policy that every Canonical employee gets Ubuntu membership after 6 months, where did you see that?
[13:04] <popey> i dont think anyone is saying they do or should dpm
[13:05] <dpm> popey, yeah, I understand, and in fact I'm missing the context of the discussion, but I just saw that particular statement and I wanted to comment
[13:05] <popey> i looks to me like the membership board are saying "We'd like to see contributions to the community outside their work in canonical, and for that to be sustained for a lengthy period - something like 6 months"
[13:05] <popey> ok
[13:06] <greg-g> dpm: I didn't say that, I was responding to vish's comment that I did as well, and I didn't :)
[13:06] <czajkowski> 04:21 < robbiew> wow...so you all blocked skaet because she hasn't been involved for 6mo....KNOWING in 2 more months she's practically automatic....seriously people...I'm  all for not automatically approving Canonical employees, but she's the damn release manager!  I quote from the Ubuntu wiki on membership, "While there is
[13:06] <czajkowski>  no precise period hat we look for, it is rare for applications to be accespted from people contributing for less
[13:06] <czajkowski> was the comment left in -meeting after board meeting
[13:06] <dpm> ok, thanks everyone for providing the context, that's much clear now :-)
[13:07] <popey> the "bar" for membership should be the same for canonical and non-canonical people
[13:07] <greg-g> sorry, I'm in the middle of getting ready for work, so I can't fully be in this conversation right now, even though I want to be :/
[13:07] <popey> the fact that someone gets paid to work on ubuntu is largely irrelavent, it's what the individual does
[13:07] <popey> sorry greg-g, another time
[13:28] <vish> greg-g: nah.. not singling you there... :)  but in general the Americas board, I'm not fully clear as to where there was a community participation in that application.. it was basically her Canonical work she has listed there and every testimonial is again only from a Canonical Employee, i couldnt find "contributions to the community outside their work in canonical" and any Community interaction either..
[13:29] <vish> so,though you are avoiding, in the end it just seemed like work for 6months and get a membership..
[13:30] <vish> s/avoiding/declining
[13:30] <popey> are canonical people not members of the community?
[13:30] <vish> nah.. , but there doesnt seem to be interaction with anyone apart from them
[13:31] <popey> sorry, let me be clear, I'm asking if you (vish) believe that people who work for canonical are _not_ part of the Ubuntu community, and you're saying "no, they're not"?
[13:34] <vish> popey: well, IMO, there is a difference, how few members get Ubuntu membership/employed at Canonical. some might have done earlier Ubuntu work and get employed at Canonical due to those efforts.. some join Canonical *and* do community work apart from their daily work, they are Ubuntu members …
[13:35] <vish> popey: what i'm saying is.. being a canonical employee, and working on Ubuntu Platform/Kernel/Desktop, doesnt necessarily automatically make them Ubuntu members
[13:37] <popey> I don't think we're talking about automatic membership here at all.
[13:37] <popey> Just the issue of people who work _full_ _time_ on Ubuntu getting rejected _because_ they are Canonical employees.
[13:38] <popey> which is what I think I'm seeing
[13:39] <vish> well, that's another advantage for a Canonical employee.. at 4 months is , come back in 6 months, (it's mentioned that we are making sure they are not just spending holiday time in Ubuntu) but what rationale does it have for a canonical employee? further for the community member that is very hard to have done those 10 tasks, but for a Canonical employee, they can do it in 3months and 1month vacation, it's their work and it's easier for them
[13:39] <vish> to complete those tasks..
[13:40] <vish> err, *when a community member applies at 4..
[13:40] <popey> "making sure they are not just spending holiday time in Ubuntu"? seriously?
[13:40] <popey> if someone spends 6 weeks of their summer holiday working on/for Ubuntu you would reject them based on them having done it during their holidays?
[13:40] <vish> popey: yes, that was the response given while rejecting a few members..
[13:41] <popey> it doesn't matter how 'easy' it is for them to make their contribution
[13:41] <vish> they said, it's to make sure that its not just for those months and that they have sustained interest..
[13:42] <popey> we're not measuring the difficulty of tasks, but the amount of contribution, the reach, the value of that contribution
[13:42] <popey> I can understand that to some degree
[13:42] <popey> however that's covered by "sustained" in the member pages
[13:44] <vish> popey: yea, i just meant the "10 tasks" as a way to quantify and compare , but similar for the amount of contribution..
[13:46] <vish> anywho.. just something i had noticed.. ;)
[13:57] <czajkowski> hmmm
[14:01] <jcastro> morning
[14:10] <czajkowski> jcastro: ello ello
[14:14] <jcastro> ok so I don't see the big deal, she waits another 2-3 months and that outta be enough?
[14:15] <popey> yup
[14:16] <jcastro> also, I don't think the "do other stuff" applies in this case
[14:16] <jcastro> I can see if say, I work on some non-ubuntu related thing at Canonical
[14:16] <vish> well then, why wait? she is employed and has to be doing the work anyway?
[14:16] <jcastro> and I apply for ubuntu membership, then I should be showing some sort of effort other than working at Canonical
[14:17] <jcastro> but in kate's case, she works fulltime on Ubuntu release management
[14:17] <maco> popey: usually on the americas board when a canonical employee comes up we ask if they're involved with their loco
[14:18] <popey> as do we on the emea rmb
[14:18] <popey> but it's not a reason not to get membership if they aren't imo
[14:18] <maco> (that was in response to <popey> Just the issue of people who work _full_ _time_ on Ubuntu getting rejected _because_ they are Canonical employees.
[14:18] <jcastro> right
[14:18] <jcastro> for the same reason you wouldn't deny someone who did only LoCos and didn't hack on Ubuntu
[14:19] <vish> Ubuntu LoCo == Ubuntu work..
[14:19] <vish> hacking on Ubuntu falls more under the MOTU membership stuff..
[14:19] <vish> or the core dev..
[14:19] <maco> if id been there last night i probably would've +1'd her because i remember her going to debconf and so interacting with upstream
[14:19] <popey> depends on the hacking
[14:20] <jcastro> maco: yea, when I saw her application I :-/ when I see she didn't mention debconf
[14:22] <dinda> maco: there was also some question that she only applied for membership b/c she was 'recommended' to by others and not b/c she actually wanted membership
[14:23] <maco> i was getting my first sleep in ....52 hours at the time
[14:23] <jcastro> though the more interesting thing I'm wondering is how many people who work on Ubuntu /haven't/ applied for membership
[14:23] <jcastro> who work at Canonical I mean
[14:23] <dinda> jcastro: good point, for example beuno and I told Marianna she should apply for membership. . .
[14:23] <dinda> but she told us she didn't feel her contributions to the comunity were enough
[14:24] <dinda> yest she's been organizing UDSes and other events for awhile and also knows most of the Italian Loco team
[14:24] <jcastro> yeah
[14:25] <jcastro> well, the process appears to be the same for both employees and non-employees, as long as that's fine then we're good
[14:25] <jcastro> just a month or two short and missing a debconf bullet
[14:25] <jcastro> that's fixable
[14:25] <dinda> right, like I said, just based on her application and what she said in the meeting, if she had not been a canonical employee we would have asked her to come back
[14:26] <dinda> now if folks like maco were also there to speak up for her contributions, that would of helped also
[14:26] <jcastro> yea
[14:26] <vish> she hasnt mentioned the LoCo work either.. :s
[14:27] <jcastro> though I for one thought that any recommendation by cjwatson in anything was an automatic +1, hah
[14:27] <maco> haha
[14:27] <vish> she should have shown someone the application, before applying. they could have poke her to mention her LoCo and debconf works..
[14:27] <vish> pkoed*
[14:27] <popey> there certainly are names I see in testimonials which make me think "I really don't need to read much more"
[14:27] <popey> cjwatson is one of them
[14:27] <maco> jcastro:  i once got a "go ahead" on a patch from cjwatson and it had to be reverted. while i think this is super-rare, he's apparently not infallible either!
[14:28] <jcastro> popey: me too
[14:28] <jcastro> maco: yeah, heh
[14:28] <jcastro> well, an extra few months is no big deal, affirmation that the process is working is a bigger win I think
[14:29] <dinda> jcastro:  msm and clan are other prime examples of folks who have done some awesome work in ubuntu yet neither would think to apply for membership
[14:30] <jcastro> dinda: and maria too when she was doing the store
[14:30] <dinda> jcastro: I fear they, an others, may feel b/c they are not developers or 'technical' types they don't qualify
[14:30] <jcastro> I just encourage people to do it all the time
[14:31] <dinda> jcastro: me too, yet they seem to see 'community' as completely separate from their work on Ubuntu . . .
[14:31] <vish> jcastro: hehe, folks usually apply when they realize they want the IRC cloak or the @ubunu.com  id , so just ask them that . ;p
[14:31] <dinda> also interesting how they say, they're not worthy somehow
[14:31] <jcastro> I'll see msm soon, I will talk to her
[14:33] <dinda> and Maria's work on ship it and sending out CDs to loco teams too should make her a shoe in
[14:33] <jcastro> yeah
[14:33] <jcastro> she's moved on from the store though
[14:34] <maco> vish: canonical employees automatically get the @ubuntu.com, whether members or not
[14:34] <vish> maco: nope.. hence skaet is applying..
[14:34] <jcastro> it used to be that way iirc
[14:34] <maco> did this change?
[14:34] <jcastro> it was a bug or something
[14:35] <maco> when dinda and i first joined the rmb she noticed that the people coming to us already had ubuntu.com email addresses
[14:35] <jcastro> I know it used to be that way for a long time
[14:35] <jcastro> I think it was just the way the email/IS thing was set up
[14:35] <maco> wonder how it went so long with nobody noticing
[14:36] <czajkowski> maco: it's been noticed and was brought up on one the mailing list and mark already said if it's needed it's fine
[14:36] <czajkowski> if a canonical needs @ubuntu.com address to get things done fine
[14:36] <czajkowski> which is a bit unfair to community folks who also feel they need to to be seen as offical.
[14:37] <dinda> and I don't get why it's preferred for someone to use an @ubuntu.com addy for their contribution instead of canonical.com?
[14:38]  * vish doesnt either. the @canonical.com seems more official..
[14:38] <dinda> the whole 'canonical doesn't contribute' thing; it would make sense for more of us to use canonical.com addys for 'counting'  purposes - very confused
[14:38] <jcastro> dinda: in code and changelogs it's supposed to be canonical.com
[14:38] <vish> dinda: oh! they do that when submitting patches in bugzilla,  they mostly use the @canonical id
[14:39] <jcastro> ^^ right
[14:39] <dinda> jcastro: that's what I thought but kate indicated last night she needed the @ubuntu addy for such things
[14:39] <jcastro> hmmm
[14:40] <dinda> maco:  btw - congrats on finishing the semester!
[14:40] <maco> dinda: thanks but i still have 2 more exams
[14:41] <dinda> maco:  ugh, good luck then
[14:43] <vish> bad jono! , when kenvandine got declined the Core dev membership, seb128 literally fought for it.. where is jono .. ;p
[14:46] <AlanBell> jcastro: I want silbs to go for membership
[14:46] <dinda> +1!!!!!!!!!
[14:47] <dinda> that's a great question AlanBell - wonder why she's never done it?
[14:48] <jcastro> AlanBell: yeah, tell me about it
[14:48] <dinda> I'd vouch for her :)
[14:48] <jcastro> I whined to ivanka too but she just never finds the time.
[14:51] <czajkowski> vish: give the man a break will you, jono deserves a day off!
[14:54] <dinda> czajkowski: do you have the dates yet for that education event you were planning for next year?  mid-year I think
[14:55] <czajkowski> dinda: April um.....
[14:55] <james_w> I think kate wanted @ubuntu.com for the release announcement. Would you rather see the release of another version of ubuntu done by @canonical.com or @ubuntu.com?
[14:56] <czajkowski> james_w: I really dont care where the email address comes from tbh....
[14:56] <AlanBell> if we can focus on going forward, it seems like there are some Canonical folks who would appreciate some assistance with their wiki pages and understanding what the membership boards are looking for
[14:56] <vish> czajkowski: :-D
[14:56] <dinda> james_w: yeah, makes no difference really
[14:57] <czajkowski> dinda: 12th April
[14:57] <czajkowski> dinda: also Education 2011 ICT Conference  (16th June 2011) in Lond
[14:57] <czajkowski> London
[14:57] <dinda> czajkowski: the 12 april event is in Dublin?
[14:58] <czajkowski> james_w: also a reason for membership just for an email address fo annoucement doesnt really cut it, same way I've seen the reson to have a blog on planet ubuntu is weak
[14:58] <czajkowski> dinda: nope april 12th is UK London
[14:58] <czajkowski> none in ireland I'm afraid
[14:58] <dinda> czajkowski: drat, I'm looking for an excuse to go to Ireland :)
[14:58] <maco> well czajkowski is english now, after all!
[14:58]  * maco ducks and runs
[14:58] <czajkowski> maco: Always been half my dear :)
[14:59] <czajkowski> dinda: sorry!
[14:59] <maco> czajkowski: i thought your accent was gonna come beat me :P
[14:59] <james_w> czajkowski, I'm not saying it should be justification. I'm saying that I would prefer it to come from @ubuntu.com
[14:59] <maco> did your accent turn english yet?
[14:59] <czajkowski> james_w: I dont see how an announcement coming from any address makes a difference....
[14:59] <czajkowski> why would it
[15:00] <dinda> james_w: why?
[15:00] <czajkowski> maco: nope I have my Irish accent :)
[15:00] <james_w> because it's an effort of the whole Ubuntu community, not just Canonical
[15:00] <czajkowski> james_w: what possible reason  could there be
[15:00] <AlanBell> james_w: plenty of time before the release, I am sure it will do, not that it matters
[15:01] <dinda> james_w: but if the notice is coming from someone who only wants membership for that reason, seems a bit disingenuous (sp?)
[15:02] <czajkowski> dinda: +1
[15:02] <james_w> right
[15:02] <maco> dinda: i think you spelled it right
[15:02] <maco> its not jumping out at me
[15:02] <czajkowski> maco: it's ;)
[15:02] <dinda> james_w: does the announcement have to come from the release mgr?  could it be designated to someone with the 'right' addy?
[15:03] <maco> meh apostrophes are for real writing
[15:03] <AlanBell> there is no imminent release announcement!
[15:03] <james_w> dinda, it could come from anyone, but I think the release manager would be disappointed not to be able to do it
[15:03] <vish> why the wait then? skaet is going to be release manager come April, if she already has shown the community work , and if the only reason membership is deferred is to make sure the member logs it the minimum time, she is going to be doing it anyway, its just a bureaucracy preventing right now..
[15:04] <vish> if we are deferring for a community member, it makes more sense, since we want to make sure they have sustained effort..
[15:04] <czajkowski> vish: because it was the boards call.  If there is not a standard set somewhere where do we draw the line
[15:04] <dinda> vish:  and you can't say what will happen tomorrow, she might win the lottery and quit her job
[15:04] <czajkowski> so 6 months is a line, fine. why keep pushing and kicking up a fuss, in 2 months time or whenever she can re apply
[15:04] <jcastro> vish: also what if she gives up tomorrow. :)
[15:04] <vish> dinda: lol! :)
[15:05] <jcastro> "I've had enough of these people!"
[15:05] <jcastro> j/k
[15:05] <AlanBell> her wiki page looks quite strong to me https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KateStewart
[15:05] <czajkowski> vish: it's also not fair for people not on the boards to point fingers and tel the boards they were wrong.  It's a judgement call.
[15:05] <dinda> I'm sure even if she wins the lottery she'll keep hanging with us ;)
[15:05] <czajkowski> AlanBell: seen a lot stronger tbh. it's nice but I've seen more detailed ones
[15:05] <jcastro> yeah we should never secondguess the boards
[15:05] <AlanBell> but the board does decide based on what people have done, not what they intend to do
[15:05] <jcastro> they're there to make the call
[15:05] <czajkowski> jcastro: aye which I do feel is what people are doing today
[15:05] <vish> czajkowski: nah, i'm not pointing fingers, more of trying to understand the process
[15:06] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I have seen a lot of nearly empty canonical ones, I was checking it wasn't one of them
[15:06] <czajkowski> vish: not how it's coming across tbh
[15:06] <dinda> discussion helps us all, I think
[15:06] <jcastro> I like talking
[15:06] <czajkowski> tbh had I viewed it last one I'd have been a 0 on it
[15:06] <AlanBell> vish: it is "significant and sustained", not "significant and will be sustained"
[15:06] <vish> czajkowski: well, tbh it is.. :)
[15:07] <AlanBell> although future plans are part of what can go on the wiki page
[15:07] <jcastro> czajkowski: I'd be totally doomed to if I had to reapply, hahah
[15:07] <dinda> and how they answer questions is important too
[15:07] <AlanBell> the board didn't actually vote
[15:07] <jcastro> I'm glad we're discussing at how difficult it is rather than how easy it is
[15:07]  * popey is also of the opinion that release announcements should come from a @ubuntu.com address if nothing else than to stop people on the outside from claiming some hidden meaning in it
[15:08] <popey> (sorry, just got back from shops)
[15:08] <jcastro> popey: worried about your friends at boycottnovell again?
[15:08] <jcastro> (sorry, had to go there)
[15:08] <vish> czajkowski: actually i dint find community work in skaet's wiki, but others here mention more community work she has done but not wirtten..
[15:08] <vish> written*
[15:08] <popey> haha
[15:08] <jcastro> yeah she's missing the debconf bits
[15:14] <jcastro> hey so last night DBO wanted to do this:
[15:14] <jcastro> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/en0ti/i_am_an_ubuntu_unity_developer_ama/
[15:14] <jcastro> and I said roll with it!
[15:14] <jcastro> what do you all think?
[15:15] <czajkowski> jcastro: DBO ?
[15:15] <jcastro> jason smith
[15:15] <maco> i know what bdo is but not dbo :P
[15:15] <jcastro> http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/presentation_attire/
[15:15] <jcastro> this guy
[15:15] <popey> I didnt know who dbo is
[15:15] <popey> someone on identica claims I do
[15:15] <jcastro> started out in compiz
[15:16] <czajkowski> ahhh
[15:16] <jcastro> then docky, now does unity
[15:16] <jcastro> the dorky kid
[15:16] <popey> why is he called dbo?
[15:16] <popey> oh, that's his nick on irc :)
[15:17] <greg-g> popey: people aren't being rejected because they're canonical employees, we have turned down traditional community members for not having the sustained contribution requirement met, in our view
[15:17] <Pici> Not everyone's nick is the same as their RealName
[15:17]  * Pici looks at the people currently active here
[15:17] <vish> Pici: ;)
[15:17] <greg-g> popey: (sorry, I should respond to one ine ina backlog without reading the rest) :)
[15:18] <nigelb> ahem, I'd like some help.  Sugggestions on what to do at an Ubuntu BoF seeing that we are the -community-team :)
[15:18] <greg-g> shouldn't*
[15:18] <greg-g> popey: Shouldn't,that is
[15:18] <maco> Pici: with exception of you, they're close though!
[15:18] <popey> Pici: people have been saying "@dbo" which doesn't make sense because that's not his twitter/identica account afaict
[15:18] <vish> popey: i dont think he tweets even
[15:19] <czajkowski> jcastro: did you want some link tweet love ?
[15:19] <jcastro> czajkowski: I tweeted about it yesterday, but I think he's spent now
[15:19] <jcastro> it was more of a live event
[15:19] <czajkowski> ah ok sorry
[15:20]  * vish never understood what reddit is.. looks closer
[15:21] <maco> vish: like digg
[15:22] <jcastro> vish: bring your sense of humor
[15:22] <jcastro> it's very "loose"
[15:22] <jcastro> anyway what do y'all think of the information gathered there, useful for people?
[15:24] <nisshh> i have an account on reddit, never really got into it though, im more of an identica dude :)
[15:24] <czajkowski> jcastro: not bad
[15:24] <jcastro> nisshh: popey loves identica
[15:25] <popey> I do!
[15:25] <popey> I just hate the lunatics that inhabit it
[15:25] <czajkowski> LOL
[15:25] <czajkowski> popey: I'll have you know I take great offence at that I am not a lunatic :) I'm Irish
[15:26] <popey> you're 50% lunatic
[15:26] <nisshh> jcastro, i know, im subscribed to popey :)
[15:26] <czajkowski> popey: hello pot :)
[15:26] <popey> er, I'm 100%
[15:26] <nisshh> popey, wait, so im a lunatic?
[15:26] <nisshh> :)
[15:26] <popey> you can strive to be as loony as me czajkowski but you'll never get there
[15:27] <nisshh> lol
[15:27] <nigelb> its a worthy target
[15:27] <nigelb> s/target/ambition
[15:28] <popey> oh, sorry, I appear to have used the wrong word!
[15:28] <popey> I said "Lunatic" when I meant "Gorgeous"
[15:28] <popey> silly me, always get those two confused
[15:28] <nigelb> Haha
[15:28] <czajkowski> popey: bless you are special. we shall have to have some random drinks night down our way in the new year!
[15:28] <nisshh> hehe
[15:28] <nigelb> Is it just me or planet css broken?
[15:28] <popey> http://havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/
[15:28] <popey> czajkowski: yes!
[15:29] <jcastro> haha  that is awesome popey
[15:29] <czajkowski> meeting a new person last night from the ML gave me a different perspective on how people feel on the list when they don't meet people
[15:29] <czajkowski> often shy and dont know they can post saying meeet at X place at y time
[15:29] <popey> jcastro: had you not seen it before?
[15:29] <vish> heh, there is a "petition" to Mark somewhere too..
[15:29] <popey> yeah, it's got about 3 people on it doesn't it?
[15:29] <jcastro> popey: no
[15:30] <popey> alan@bishop:/srv/havethebuttonsmovedbackyet.com/www$ ls *.png
[15:30] <popey> maybe.png  no.png  oldno.png  possibly.png  yes.png
[15:30] <popey> :)
[15:31] <popey> my new toy arrived today!
[15:31] <popey> http://www.it247.com/product/1/XXHSUK23/612275-421-HP-ProLiant-MicroServer-Dual-Core-1-3Ghz-AMD-Athlon-II.html
[15:31] <nisshh> popey, oooh? new toy?
[15:31] <nisshh> oh, a server :)
[15:31] <nisshh> nice
[15:32] <popey> 212GBP with 100GBP cash back! = 112GBP = 173USD
[15:32] <popey> gonna slap 10.04 on it
[15:32] <jcastro> AlanBell: is my testimonial good?
[15:32] <nisshh> popey, very nice
[15:32] <popey> hmm, just had a thought, it doesn't have an optical drive, hmmmm
[15:33] <nisshh> popey, USB install?
[15:33] <popey> hmmmmm, ubuntu server on a usb stick :S
[15:33] <popey> will that work?
[15:33] <nisshh> lol
[15:33] <nisshh> should do
[15:33] <popey> I have only done live CDs on USB
[15:33] <nisshh> i think any edition will work on USB
[15:33] <vish> server on a stick! :)
[15:33] <popey> well, the really cool thing is it has a usb socket on the inside!
[15:34] <popey> so i could put the OS on the stick
[15:34] <jcastro> yeah
[15:34] <popey> and the data on the spinny disks
[15:34] <jcastro> I had a few of those
[15:34] <nisshh> none of what you just said made sense :)
[15:34] <nisshh> to me...
[15:34] <popey> well, rather than install onto hard disk, install onto a usb stick
[15:35] <popey> the stick plugs into a socket on the motherboard
[15:35] <popey> rather than sticking out the outside
[15:35] <nisshh> oh i see
[15:35] <popey> and then I can make a nice big RAID/LVM thing with the disks
[15:35] <popey> muhahahah
[15:35] <popey> etc
[15:35] <nisshh> thats cool
[15:35] <jcastro> it's for those USB license dongles
[15:35] <jcastro> so you can keep them in there
[15:35] <jcastro> instead of hanging out the back
[15:35] <nisshh> ah ok
[15:36] <jcastro> so when you drop something behind a rack or whatever you don't snap off a bunch of them
[15:36]  * jcastro knows that one from experience
[15:36]  * nisshh is more in tune with desktops than with servers still :)
[15:36] <nisshh> hehe
[15:36] <jcastro> or you don't have them sticking out the front, etc.
[15:36] <jcastro> but they make a nice place to put a "recovery USB stick"
[15:37] <nisshh> gah! we have this dude spamming the Identicurse group on identica, freaking annoying
[15:39] <jcastro> If anyone wants to test 11.04 today I need someone to spot check some instructions for me
[15:39] <jcastro> before I steal them and make them the official docs. :D
[15:39] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/16988/how-do-i-install-ubuntu-to-a-usb-key
[15:40] <jcastro> trying to figure out a persistant USB stick that people can have unity-in-their-pocket
[15:40] <popey> i do that
[15:40] <jcastro> how did you set it up?
[15:40] <popey> i have a 32GB stick which goes in my geek box
[15:40] <popey> boot off a cd, (or usb) plug in second 32GB stick and install onto it
[15:40] <popey> default install with encryption on
[15:41] <jcastro> that didn't work for me
[15:41] <popey> oh?
[15:41] <jcastro> it blew away my grub on my actual hard disk
[15:41] <popey> oh, i had to modify where grub goes
[15:41] <popey> :)
[15:41] <popey> yeah, that
[15:41] <jcastro> and left me angry and upset
[15:41] <popey> awww
[15:41]  * popey cuddles jcastro
[15:41] <jcastro> "yeah that" he says
[15:41] <jcastro> yeah so if you know anyone that can test the instructions above, he uses kvm so the thing only sees the USB stick, so it's more jorge-proof
[15:43] <czajkowski> jorge-proof - love it
[15:43] <czajkowski> ~;)
[15:43] <jcastro> yeah so the first time I was like "oh I messed something up"
[15:43] <jcastro> so I tried it on another computer
[15:43] <jcastro> blam, 2 dead grubs
[15:44] <popey> like cillit bang
[15:44] <popey> Jorge!  and shook my fist towards England
[15:44] <popey> excellent
[15:44] <jcastro> just like with the sudo thing the other day
[15:44] <popey> hah
[15:44] <jcastro> "wow this is probably stupid" <ENTER>
[15:44] <czajkowski> .c
[15:44] <jcastro> "whoops"
[15:45] <popey> we should totally put a back door in the development version of ubuntu
[15:45] <popey> a root password set of "jonosmells" or something
[15:54] <jcastro> popey: yeah so like I was saying, I hate jono
[15:54] <jcastro> whoops, I thought you were on vacation!
[15:54] <jono> howdy!
[15:54] <jono> jcastro, I am
[15:55] <jono> lol
[15:55] <dinda> jcastro: quick hide the snuggie we got him for christmas!
[15:56] <nisshh> lol
[15:56] <czajkowski> jono: so much for vacation :)
[15:56]  * popey cuddles jono
[16:00] <jono> hehe
[16:00] <jono> I won't be here for long, just checking in
[16:01] <jcastro> jono: seb's working on unity, like, a few more hours and we should be good
[16:01] <jcastro> this one will have the launcher drag and drop to move stuff around
[16:02] <jono> jcastro, cool
[16:02] <popey> awesome
[16:02] <jono> jcastro, no upload yesterday?
[16:02] <jcastro> no didrocks was off so they are doing it today with seb
[16:02] <jono> ahhh good to see planet doesn't look crap anymore :-)
[16:02] <jono> apart from some formatting issues
[16:04] <czajkowski> jono: did you find a slot for me in your cal for next week ?
[16:09] <jono> czajkowski, apologies czajkowski, let me check now
[16:09] <jono> czajkowski, Tues at 6pm UK?
[16:10] <czajkowski> jono: sounds grand
[16:10] <czajkowski> jono: cheers
[16:10] <jono> thanks!
[16:10] <jono> sorry for not being available this czajkowski
[16:10] <jono> I am also off work on Thu and Fri next week
[16:10] <jono> trying to burn some of the holiday I have piled up
[16:10] <czajkowski> jono: no bother I understand re evil dentists, I've to go monday
[16:12] <AlanBell> jcastro: it is, very nice thanks a lot
[16:14] <Pendulum> jono: so you're off next Thursday so we need to reschedule? or are you all booked up until January at this point?
[16:16] <jono> Pendulum, I am off next thu, why don't we talk on Tuesday too?
[16:16] <jono> Pendulum, 2pm Pacific?
[16:17] <Pendulum> jono: works for me
[16:18] <jono> Pendulum, rocking
[16:18] <jono> czajkowski, ugh, dentists suck
[16:18] <jono> I had a tooth out
[16:19] <jono> took two nurses to yank the damn thing out
[16:19] <popey> just make sure you wear your glasses when you go! you don't want to accidentally stumble into the proctologists and ask for them to take your tooth out!
[16:19] <popey> could take a while and be infinitely more painful!
[16:20] <Pendulum> czajkowski: I have dentist next week too :(
[16:21] <czajkowski> jono: aye I need that done
[16:21] <czajkowski> stupid wisdom tooth is nothing but pain
[16:21] <jono> ugh
[16:21] <jono> no fun
[16:21] <jono> so when I went to the dentist, it turned out everyone in Severed Fifth, apart from Ron, did too
[16:23] <popey> the logical conclusion here is that death metal rots your teeth?
[16:24] <nisshh> popey, well, it is "death" metal :)
[16:25] <popey> I used to have a little link on my blog that just said "death metal sucks" and linked to jonobacon.org :)
[16:25] <jcastro> jono: iirc in the past you've told me "wow you go to the dentist alot"
[16:25] <jcastro> maybe I'm the normal one and you're not going enough?
[16:26] <paultag> ffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuu
[16:26] <paultag> jcastro: what's an "alot"
[16:26] <paultag> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S8TRIo4br3I/AAAAAAAACv4/Zh7_GcMlRKo/s400/ALOT.png
[16:26] <jcastro> you're supposed to go 3 times a year
[16:26] <jcastro> hah that pic is awesome
[16:26] <jcastro> is that from the oatmeal?
[16:26] <popey> mmmm oatmeal
[16:27] <Pendulum> jcastro: 3 times a year? my dentist has always said 2
[16:27] <paultag> jcastro: narp, http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[16:27] <popey> british dentists say 2
[16:27] <paultag> jcastro: she's so funny. So funny. SO funny
[16:27] <nisshh> jcastro, wow, you go to the dentist a lot :)
[16:27] <popey> cue comments about brits having bad teeth
[16:27] <paultag> popey: brits have bad teeth
[16:27] <nisshh> jcastro, i havent been to the dentist for like 2 years
[16:27] <popey> BINGO!
[16:27] <jcastro> Pendulum: mine says three, which is why my teeth look amazing. Ok the brand new crowns might have something to do with that too, heh
[16:27] <Pendulum> haha
[16:27] <popey> heh
[16:28] <jcastro> though, dental pain is by far on the top of any list of pain
[16:30] <popey> co-worker claims that "the snip" ranks up with dental pain
[16:30] <popey> I do not intend to test this theory out for myself just now.
[16:31] <paultag> OK. BRB. Going to puke I think. One love.
[16:32] <czajkowski> LOL
[16:32] <czajkowski> I have a slightly irrational fear of the dentist, I've bitten two dentists fingers in the past
[16:32] <czajkowski> they were less than impressed
[16:32] <czajkowski> paultag: no.love
[16:33] <czajkowski> right time to head out of here more snow coming
[17:05] <czajkowski> time for some BBT :D
[17:07] <jcastro> czajkowski: I just got into that show
[17:07] <jcastro> I am like halfway through season 2
[17:07] <czajkowski> it's fecking amazing
[17:07] <czajkowski> I am addicted to it :D
[17:09] <jcastro> the laugh track is annoying, but other than that
[17:19] <nisshh> czajkowski, BBT?
[17:20] <czajkowski> nisshh: big bang theory
[17:20] <nisshh> czajkowski, ah, i see :)
[17:22] <dinda> czajkowski: I swear they based sheldon on one of my ex-boyfriends ;)
[17:22] <czajkowski> he's my favourite
[17:22] <dinda> czajkowski: yes but you don't want to date him!
[17:22] <czajkowski> possibly true
[17:24] <czajkowski> show is brilliant though :D
[17:24] <dinda> show is very well written
[17:25] <dinda> and you have to read the little Vanity cards at the end from the writer - they are awesome
[17:26] <czajkowski> last nights episode is great
[17:52] <jcastro> I just saw the one where he started dating the girl from blossom
[17:52] <jcastro> but they're not really dating, it's all platonic
[17:52] <jcastro> (and hilarious)
[17:54] <czajkowski> Amy Farrah Fowler
[17:55] <paultag> hello, world
[18:25] <czajkowski> does planet.u.c look odd for anyone else on chromium
[18:25] <czajkowski> all text is garbled over other text if it's a link
[18:30] <AlanBell> czajkowski: yes
[18:48] <czajkowski> not me going bat eyed then
[19:05]  * jcastro preps for a This Week in Debian interview
[19:11] <czajkowski> jcastro: whats that
[19:15] <jcastro> http://www.frostbitemedia.org/node/7
[19:17] <czajkowski> oh nice
[19:17] <czajkowski> not seen that before
[19:17] <czajkowski> god naan bread is so addictive
[19:25] <greg-g> jcastro: awesome, did you see that Asheesh was on one of those?
[20:03] <dpm> have a good weekend everyone!
[20:03] <dpm> bye!
[20:03] <nigelb> greg-g: I did.  The last week one right?
[20:04] <nigelb> or was it the week before?
[20:04] <greg-g> nigelb: yeah, last one I think
[20:05] <greg-g> nigelb: I'm just in the middle of it now. I have to admit, I'm a HUGE Asheesh fan, ever since I intern at CC when he was a developer there.
[20:06] <greg-g> (that and we share a server :) )
[20:06] <nigelb> greg-g: heh, I got to know him through openhatch and his old blog post about diversity in open source, specifically about the very little open source contribution from india.
[20:07] <greg-g> ahh, yeah, I remember that one
[20:07] <greg-g> I don't do as much with openhatch as I wish I had time for :/
[20:12] <czajkowski> greg-g: mr.busy
[20:13] <greg-g> always :/
[20:13] <greg-g> (wait, am I chatting on IRC? shhhhhhh)
[20:13] <czajkowski> greg-g: shhh don't tell anyone :)
[20:14] <jcastro> greg-g: heh awesome
[20:14] <jcastro> just finished
[20:14] <jcastro> I thought it was awesome
[20:18] <greg-g> jcastro: it'd make my day if you told asheesh you enjoyed the interview
[20:18] <jcastro> what, doing it?
[20:18] <jcastro> or his?
[20:18] <greg-g> his
[20:19] <jcastro> you mean listen to asheesh on purpose?
[20:19] <jcastro> j/k
[20:19] <jcastro> I'll put it in my queue
[20:19] <nigelb> lol
[20:19] <greg-g> ohhhh, nevermind :)
[20:19] <jcastro> asheesh ftw.
[20:19] <jcastro> how's his project coming along?
[20:19] <greg-g> he's got a good number of contributors, so well
[20:20] <jcastro> good good
[20:20] <greg-g> https://openhatch.org/blog/2010/our-first-release/
[20:21] <nigelb> Server team, you rock.  I just realized my wifi switch which worked only in Windows now works on Ubuntu too!
[20:21] <nigelb> s/server/kernel
[20:21]  * nigelb hugs jfo
[20:23] <jcastro> greg-g: man DUH, I should register unity on there
[20:24] <greg-g> jcastro: wow, we're dense
[20:26] <jcastro> on it now
[20:26] <jcastro> this will be sweet
[20:36] <jcastro> greg-g: man dude, this is brilliant
[20:36] <jcastro> https://openhatch.org/+projects/Unity