[03:57] <pitti> apw: ack, I filed bug 1510362 about it for nwo
[03:57] <pitti> Good morning
[07:59] <dholbach> good morning
[08:02] <seb128> hey dholbach
[08:04] <dholbach> salut seb128
[11:13] <melodie> hi
[11:14] <sladen> hello melodie
[11:14] <melodie> hi sladen
[11:14] <sladen> just ask your question so that everyone can see it at the same time
[11:16] <melodie> I have a question about the content of ISO, because I want to improve Bento Openbox Remix build. The question is about pool/dist and about EFI or any added package such as drivers for specific hardware, and so on: how does the system know if it has to choose a package in the pool directory? Does it work just by "magic hardware detection" and some pipes between it and apt?
[11:16] <melodie> I hope my question does not sound too dumb, as I really don't have a clear idea about that sphere of processes
[11:19] <melodie> sladen do you think anyone here will have a doc to point me to, or insights they can provide?
[11:19] <sladen> asking questions is never dumb
[11:19] <melodie> thanks :D
[11:19] <sladen> however I'm still trying to work out if /I/ understand the question correctly, in order to be able to answer it or point you towards somebody who might know
[11:20] <sladen> melodie: have you got an example of package that might/might not be chosen, and which you have in mind?
[11:21] <sladen> melodie: eg. are you thinking of something like an Nvidia graphics driver, or a USB modem driver?
[11:21] <sladen> melodie: ideally all hardware should do something useful/sensible when plugged in, and it's a bug if it doesn't
[11:21] <melodie> yes, first idea is about efibootmgr
[11:22] <sladen> melodie: but remixes are normally more about remixing the user applications/desktop environments/languages rather than hardware support
[11:22] <melodie> I aim to bring Bento Openbox Remix to a tech level as close as possible to what is provided by the official versions
[11:23] <melodie> I do it starting from "outside", and will dive into the tech deeper and deeper as time goes
[11:23] <melodie> 2012: the remix is LTS and works (done with Ubuntu Builder)
[11:24] <melodie> 2014 started working on the Trusty LTS (still the same tool but is not dev anymore, and someone shows me the seeds, however my configs aren't packaged so I have to be patient)
[11:24] <sladen> I think vaillant used to be one of the developers of Ubuntu Builder
[11:24] <melodie> now I start using Customizer instead of Ubuntu-Builder, but I want to master the "pool/dist" area, which I haven't so far. next I'll see if I can learn packaging the user prefs
[11:25] <sergiusens> cjwatson, hey, is that "y-series" for destination series I see on launchpad's copy packages interface expected?
[11:25] <melodie> never mind Ubuntu Builder, it's over. Customizer works and while the project continues to provide recent ISO's it's alive. Between versions I want to learn to make it better
[11:26] <cjwatson> sergiusens: yes, you won't actually be able to copy to it because it's marked Future but the series exists
[11:26] <cjwatson> sergiusens: though maybe the copy target vocabulary should filter it out, file a bug
[11:27] <melodie> sladen when I'll handle  pool/dist and be able to package the parts that still need to be packaged, I'll do a meta-package, a session and see if I can start using real seeds.
[11:27] <sergiusens> cjwatson, sure thing, thanks
[11:28] <melodie> sladen so in the case of efibootmgr package, and knowing there is also the BOOT/EFI/ directory in the 64bits isos, how does that work under the hood? would you know that,
[11:28] <melodie> ?
[11:29] <sladen> FourDollars: ^^think you might have been the last person to touch efibootmgr (since then it's been a straight import from Debian)
[11:30] <FourDollars> sladen: yes?
[11:30] <melodie> sladen oh!
[11:30] <melodie> hi FourDollars
[11:30] <FourDollars> Hi melodie
[11:31] <melodie> this is about my noobs questions related to how pool/dist and other additions such as BOOT/EFI/* are "seen" and used in the 64bits ISOs (or other pool packages seen but the hardware recognition tools)
[11:31] <melodie> I'd like to understand how all this is processed during the start of the live and or after it's started
[11:34] <sladen> melodie: I don't know boot stuff well anymore; but I should imagine that locating packages comes a lot later than the early stages of boot.  So they seem to be going in different directions
[11:34] <FourDollars> The files under BOOT/EFI/* can be downloaded from some url. Let me search for it.
[11:35] <sladen> melodie: EFI->Grub->Kernel->initramfs->rootfs->...->Debian-installer (or any particular GUI font end for it)
[11:36] <melodie> sladen where "EFI →" is the EFI in the "BIOS / EFI" computer?
[11:36] <melodie> that would be "EFI → Grub-EFI" ?
[11:36] <FourDollars>  /EFI/BOOT/BOOTx64.efi is defined by the UEFI spec. for 64 bits UEFI BIOS.
[11:37] <melodie> FourDollars I read you
[11:37] <FourDollars> Read it from http://www.uefi.org/specifications
[11:38] <FourDollars>  /EFI/BOOT/BOOTx64.efi will bring up the GRUB and then GRUB will bring up the Linux kernel and initramfs.
[11:40] <melodie> how does the "system" (what part of it?) acknowledges the /EFI/BOOT/BOOTx64.EFI|grubx64.efi presence?
[11:40] <melodie> FourDollars I try to understand how the "magic" works there
[11:40] <FourDollars> That is what UEFI BIOS does.
[11:41] <sladen> melodie: the EFI firmware looks through the available boot devices, and looks if any of the available boot devices contains a file called '/EFI/BOOT/BOOTx64.EFI', loads it into memory, and runs it
[11:41] <FourDollars> melodie: UEFI BIOS will try all boot entries in NVRAM and then search for some pre-defined files.
[11:42] <FourDollars> melodie: There is no magic and they are documented at http://www.uefi.org/specifications.
[11:42] <melodie> sladen oh ok!
[11:43] <melodie> FourDollars ok, some reading to do, thanks
[11:43] <FourDollars> melodie: no problem
[11:45] <melodie> if you have insights for me, about how that works for other packages in pool in the ISOS? I have browsed through the pool of several Ubuntu official flavors and noticed they don't necessarily contain the same packages, which means the devs did different choices (not fixed by an Ubuntu convention for instance)
[11:45] <FourDollars> melodie: BTW, the efibootmgr only edits some variables in NVRAM as I know.
[11:46] <melodie> FourDollars I don't know about that, it's deeped (lower/closer to the hardwareà that I have learned about.
[11:47] <melodie> FourDollars I just browsed my favorite computer dictionnary to read about NVRAM : that's the firmware, right?
[11:47] <melodie> deeped/deeper* (sorry for the typo)
[11:47] <sladen> melodie: one (shouldn't) need to worry about EFI when remixing
[11:48] <FourDollars> melodie: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/installer-amd64/current/images/cdrom/debian-cd_info.tar.gz
[11:48] <melodie> sladen I use Ubuntu Mini Remix to build on it, which means there is no EFI nor pool/dist at the beginning
[11:48] <melodie> FourDollars I look
[11:48] <TJ-> melodie: UEFI boot from removable media expects to find the Simple Media Boot Path, which means an EFI System Partition with the boot-loader at /EFI/BOOT/BOOT${ARCH}.EFI
[11:49] <melodie> FourDollars that's the sources?
[11:50] <sladen> melodie: Grub
[11:50] <FourDollars> melodie: The files under /EFI/BOOT/ such as BOOTx64.efi is in ./grub/efi.img in  http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/installer-amd64/current/images/cdrom/debian-cd_info.tar.gz.
[11:50] <melodie> TJ- yes, ok I get this. (I have installed only on two machines having UEFI so far, and learned that side of the story)
[11:50] <FourDollars> s/is/are/
[11:51] <TJ-> melodie: OK, I only just came in. Was there some other aspect to the info you are looking for?
[11:51] <melodie> TJ yes, about the packages in pool/dist : what process makes them either chosen or ignored, depending on the hardware where the live boots?
[11:52] <sladen> melodie: are you wondering about different architectures (x86 vs amd64)
[11:52] <melodie> FourDollars I would not know yet how to use the link you just gave me, apart from looking what it contains (but I'll learn that later when the time comes, now I just try to understand the mechanics)
[11:52] <TJ-> melodie: Do you mean, for an ISO image which has package A in its /pool/ already, what makes the installer (d-i/ubiquity) install that package, or do you mean what controls the packages actually included in the /pool/ at CD image creation time?
[11:53] <melodie> sladen no, I guess 32bits don't have UEFI?
[11:53] <FourDollars> melodie: OK
[11:53] <TJ-> melodie: there is 32-bit UEFI too
[11:54] <melodie> TJ- " what makes the installer (d-i/ubiquity) install that package" and if you explain me what controls the package installed in the pool at CD image creation time, I'll just ask you if the info in that doc is enough for me to get the anwser?  →
[11:55] <melodie> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#Modify_pool_structure_to_include_more_packages
[11:55] <melodie> TJ- ah!
[11:55] <TJ-> melodie: The installed image, including packages, is generally controlled by a preseed file
[11:55] <melodie> 32 bit uefi...
[11:56] <TJ-> melodie: the preseed file is generally included on the kernel command-line at boot-time, by the boot-manager
[11:56] <melodie> TJ- ok preseed, the last thing I'll need to worry about, once I will have created packages for everything, which I haven't yet
[11:59] <melodie> I'll do some tests with the command lines included in that part https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallCDCustomization#Modify_pool_structure_to_include_more_packages
[12:00] <FourDollars> melodie: The live system is bought up by casper. You can see boot=casper in the kernel parameter.
[12:01] <melodie> FourDollars yes!
[12:01] <FourDollars> melodie: It is very helpful to extract initrd.lz and read what it is doing.
[12:01] <FourDollars> s/extract/decompress/
[12:01] <melodie> some time I'll ask to be explained the different contents in /usr/share/casper, for now all I know is that some scripts are to be considered and or added in the casper/bottom section.
[12:02] <melodie> FourDollars initrd.lz needs to be renamed to be extracted, right?
[12:02] <melodie> to .gz then gunzip?
[12:02] <TJ-> melodie: best thing is to read the source/documentation od the cdimage package. See e.g. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/ubuntu-cdimage/mainline/view/head:/README
[12:03] <cjwatson> initrd.lz is compressed with lzma, not gzip.  use unlzma -S .lz
[12:03] <cjwatson> (might be worth making it be xz at some point so that we don't have to argue with iso9660 file formats about >3-char extensions)
[12:04] <melodie> "cpio -i < initrd
[12:04] <melodie> 185979 blocs
[12:04] <melodie> "
[12:04] <melodie> cjwatson oh so!
[12:05] <FourDollars> melodie: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomizeLiveInitrd
[12:06] <melodie> cjwatson I didn't know about the "unlzma -S .lz" and renaming it to gz then gunzip then cpio worked. there is some trick under.. ?
[12:06] <melodie> FourDollars I look
[12:08] <melodie> FourDollars cjwatson TJ- sladen I appreciate your help and insights greatly! This is all very good knowledge for me. I need a cup of coffee and a piece of bread and will be right back. :)
[12:24] <melodie> cjwatson unlzma -S does that:
[12:24] <melodie> "# unlzma -S initrd.lz
[12:24] <melodie> unlzma: compressed data not read from a terminal. Use -f to force decompression.
[12:24] <melodie> unlzma: For help, type: unlzma -h"
[12:25] <melodie> I'll retry with -f
[12:25] <cjwatson> melodie: you didn't accurately transcribe what I said
[12:25] <cjwatson> -S is an option that takes an extension
[12:25] <cjwatson> unlzma -S .lz initrd.lz
[12:25] <melodie> ah!
[12:25] <melodie> ok
[12:26] <melodie> cjwatson well:
[12:26] <melodie> # unlzma -S .lz initrd.lz
[12:26] <melodie> unlzma: Decoder error
[12:26] <melodie> and:
[12:26] <melodie> # file initrd.lz
[12:26] <melodie> initrd.lz: gzip compressed data, from Unix, last modified: Thu Oct 22 22:47:26 2015
[12:26] <melodie> when I do move to gz, then gunzip, then cpio -i it works
[12:27] <cjwatson> oh, well, if your image is broken such that it's generating gzipped files and putting them in .lz ...
[12:27] <cjwatson> afaik the standard Ubuntu images are not broken in that way
[12:27] <cjwatson> $ sudo mount -oro vivid-desktop-amd64.iso /mnt
[12:27] <cjwatson> $ file /mnt/casper/initrd.lz
[12:27] <cjwatson> /mnt/casper/initrd.lz: LZMA compressed data, streamed
[12:33] <melodie> cjwatson that's intriguing I'll do a search to try to find why
[12:59] <melodie> cjwatson I'll try to see if I find a difference in the /etc/mksquashfs directory scripts
[13:03] <mitya57> slangasek, can you please subscribe the foundations team to setuptools-scm bugs (for bug 1510532)?
[13:38] <doko> mitya57, tumbleweed, barry: python3.5 now the default in xenial
[13:39] <barry> doko: +1
[13:39] <mitya57> \o/
[13:40] <rbasak> Xenial is open for general uploads now, right? That's what "Archive: open" means?
[13:41] <barry> doko: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PnPLZRM2hu7ucv1yuq7Fd5hjNw_DYupHIYZpoP4-xHk/edit#gid=0
[13:42] <rbasak> Only there hasn't been an ubuntu-devel-announce mail, hence I'm not sure.
[13:42] <doko> ohh, have to finish that one ... doing now
[13:43] <doko> rbasak, sure, but keep stuff migratiing, look at update_excuses
[13:43] <mitya57> doko, and thanks for quick processing of my mir/rm bugs!
[13:47] <mitya57> Why is pdf2djvu build failing on ppc64el without any log? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pdf2djvu/0.9.2-2ubuntu1/+build/8196903
[13:47] <mitya57> Tried retrying, without any change. Built on other 5 archs successfully.
[13:50] <barry> anybody looking at software-properties i386 failure?  if not i will
[13:52] <cjwatson> mitya57: that would mean it crashed the builder
[13:53] <cjwatson> though that's an awfully quick BUILDERFAIL ...
[13:54] <cjwatson> oh, there was a DNS event earlier today, wonder if it was that
[13:57] <cjwatson> mitya57: right, it's building now, I bet it was the internal DNS outage on that nameserver that was fixed earlier.  I'll clean up the other similar occurrences
[13:57] <cjwatson> though I'm still seeing even quite recent failures
[14:05] <rbasak> doko: thanks
[14:12] <cjwatson> mitya57: definitely still something up, I've raised it with ops
[14:19] <tumbleweed> doko: \o/
[14:19] <tumbleweed> I guess my python-cffi autopkgtest fix worked then :)
[14:20] <doko> tumbleweed, we overrode it
[14:20] <tumbleweed> aww
[14:20]  * tumbleweed goes to see if it worked
[14:21] <tumbleweed> yep
[14:21] <tumbleweed> excellent
[14:21] <doko> tumbleweed, mitya57: so the one big exception is ipython (just disabled the tests). not sure if an update to the 3.x or 4.x series would be any better, but the strange thing is they do not mention python 3.5 at all on their site
[14:25] <doko> barry, fyi, I'm waiting with the 3.4 removal until -proposed is a bit more settled
[14:25] <cjwatson> ^- I'm not sure that's what I needed to see in a professional channel
[14:26] <barry> doko: +1
[14:45] <barry> bdmurray: mind doing a quick review of https://code.launchpad.net/~barry/software-properties/lp1510558/+merge/275854
[15:25] <deepak_bhagchand> i have to perform a benchmarking exercise in which i have to compare performace of two virtual machines hosting a mail server in one i have to use a full fledge operating system(linux) and in other i have to use a shell down version of the same linux in which i have to remove the modules with functionalities idont require for my application
[15:32] <rbasak> doko: I would get augeas migrating but it's stuck on a ppc64el build failure with no build log. Known issue I hear?
[15:33] <doko> rbasak, retried
[15:33] <rbasak> I tried retrying already (I think), still failed.
[15:38] <doko> rbasak, it's how you need to push the retry button ;p built.
[15:38] <rbasak> doko: thanks :)
[15:39] <rbasak> doko: FYI, the first time I got what looked like a random segfault (I did have a build log). Then on retry I failed to get build logs. In case that matters with other failures.
[15:39] <rbasak> Technically not a segfault
[15:39] <rbasak> PASS: test-wctype-h
[15:39] <rbasak> SKIP: test-wcrtomb-w32-5.sh
[15:39] <rbasak> PASS: test-verify.sh
[15:39] <rbasak> ../../build/ac-aux/test-driver: line 95: 21284 Aborted                 (core dumped) "$@" > $log_file 2>&1
[15:39] <rbasak> FAIL: test-lock
[15:48] <mitya57> cjwatson, it's fixed now, thanks for the investigation
[15:52] <cjwatson> mitya57: well
[15:52] <cjwatson> mitya57: sort of, depending on luck
[15:53] <cjwatson> rbasak: DNS resolution issue in the bos01 region, IS has been trying to figure it out this afternoon
[15:53] <cjwatson> rbasak,doko: I'll be retrying all the affected builds in bulk once it's sorted out
[15:55] <rbasak> OK, thanks.
[15:55] <slangasek> mitya57: setuptools-scm> done, though the intended process is to get agreement from the team that they will be the bug contact, and get them subscribed, before the package is promoted... (doko)
[15:55] <doko> mitya57, I agreed =)
[15:56] <doko> slangasek, I agreed =)
[15:56] <slangasek> doko: ah, and apparently did the subscription too, so ok ;)
[15:56] <doko> yes
[15:57] <doko> directhex, do you plan a mono update for this cycle?
[15:58] <directhex> doko: yes. have been snarled up by unrelated work stuff, but should have time to get that done in early december with any luck
[15:58] <doko> ta
[15:58] <directhex> 4.0 or 4.2 series, depending on QA
[15:59] <directhex> the packaging work is ~done since i get paid to do it, it's the distro integration which takes time now
[17:06] <stgraber> infinity: TB meeting?
[17:27] <TJ-> any network-manager maintainer about? I'm trying to debug bug #1048430 and it seems to depend on an Ubuntu-specific patch adding DBus dnsmasq updates
[17:28] <cjwatson> rbasak,doko,mitya57: all fixed now for real thanks to IS figuring out that one of the two DNS forwarders was busted
[17:31] <rbasak> Thanks
[17:37] <cjwatson> http://blog.launchpad.net/ppa/ppas-for-ppc64el may be interesting to people who want to work on ppc64el build failures
[18:24] <ogra_> cjwatson, erm, did someone just switch the image builders to default to xenial ?
[18:24]  * ogra_ just had a (what he thought) wily rebuild explode on all arches
[18:25] <infinity> ogra_: xenial's the devel series, not sure what you expect.
[18:25] <infinity> ogra_: A wily build would need DIST=wily
[18:26] <ogra_> infinity, dunno, that image builds only default to it once it actualy can build ... i.e. once the archive is complete enough :)
[18:27] <infinity> The arvhive is "complete" from day 1...
[18:27] <infinity> archive, too.
[18:27] <infinity> It's not like we start from scratch.
[18:27] <ogra_> well, i have different 404s on the different arches in the logs
[18:27] <infinity> Log?
[18:28] <ogra_> oh and we use a PPA
[18:28] <ogra_> which also doesnt have xenial support yet
[18:28] <infinity> Right, if your PPA is 404ing, you could mass copy from wily to xenial. :P
[18:29] <ogra_> well, i could just turn on xenial at all for the PPA, prehaps thats sufficient ...
[18:32] <cjwatson> ogra_: yeah this is just your PPA
[18:32] <ogra_> right
[18:32] <cjwatson> ogra_: you can only "turn it on" by uploading or copying something into it
[18:32] <ogra_> i just did a xenial upload to it, that should get me the Packages files
[18:33] <cjwatson> mass copying would normally be sensible, why not do that?
[18:33] <ogra_> the wily stuff should all be in archive already anyway
[18:33] <cjwatson> ok, well, either make the Packages files exist, or make your lb config stop using the PPA, one or the other
[18:34]  * ogra_ would like to only use the PPA for overrides and in case something is missing, directly copy to the archive
[18:34] <ogra_> a new release is a good reason to clean up :)
[18:45] <dobey>  or make it not fail if the Packages file in the PPA doesn't exist :)
[18:45] <dobey> robustness ftw
[18:46] <ogra_> i guess that would have to be hacked into apt
[19:04] <infinity> dobey: I wouldn't call that robust, I'd call it just the opposite.  If you ask it to use a PPA and the PPA is busted, that *should* fail.
[19:05] <infinity> So, the only correct answers are "don't use the PPA" or "populate the PPA".
[19:15] <dobey> potato, legume
[19:48] <teward> with a Conflicts: line in a package, is there such a thing as version not equal to the version provided in the source package?
[19:48] <teward> (i.e. this:    Conflicts: package (!= ${source:Version}),...
[20:07] <gQuigs> is anyone already planning a systemd related UDS session?  (I'd like to discuss systemd user sessions, but it doesn't seem to warrant a session to itself)
[21:03] <sil2100> cyphermox, doko: re: the ocaml transition, looking at xstrp4 it seems that the installability issue would be resolved by us pullin in the camlp4 source package from Debian - which, on the other hand, requires us to first merge the new ocaml version from Debian
[21:04] <sil2100> cyphermox, doko: so I guess this would have to wait as doko mentioned Debian prepares a new ocaml version anyway or something
[21:05] <sil2100> Moving forward
[21:13] <sil2100> cyphermox, doko: anyway, how would you guys prefer me to resolve those issues? Since for most cases I don't have the permissions to merge/sync - is poking here ok?


[12:21] <lindol> hi all
[17:26] <nabn> hi. ever since i upgraded to 15.10, gnome-shell has frequently been eating up ~100% of the cpu. what might be the cause of this?
[17:52] <stiv2k> does anybody know how to change the power settings for the login screen... i.e. when to put the display to sleep and when to put the computer to sleep? For some reason the monitor goes to sleep VERY quickly, like in a few seconds, at the login screen
[19:10] <Olotila> can I add a sort of "sticky note" to classic gnome desktop?
[19:11] <Olotila> or is there some other way to have a "list of things to remember" close by?
[22:39] <bcx> Hi
[22:39] <bcx> is it possible the have different WM themes for user/root ?
[22:40] <bcx> the idea is to visually distinguish the window based on metacity title color
[22:44] <darkxst> bcx, metacity themes are gone
[23:02] <wrks> hi. is ubuntu gnome 15.10 going to use a dark theme?)
[23:03] <darkxst> wrks, no we use the standard adwaita
[23:03] <darkxst> if you want the dark theme, you have to enable it yourself in gnome-tweak-tool
[23:03] <wrks> great, thanks
[23:05] <bcx> darkxst: in tweak tool, what exactly is the "Global dark theme" checkbox for ? i don't understand its interaction with following selectors
[23:05] <darkxst> bcx, it sets dark theme everywhere?
[23:07] <bcx> on my system it does nothing, but I'd like to learn more on this feature
[23:07] <darkxst> bcx, you may need to restart after enabling it
[23:08] <bcx> anyway I can install WM/gtk dark themes with tweak tool
[23:08] <bcx> but the global switch stills mysterious, what theme will this apply ?
[23:09] <darkxst> bcx adwaita dark
[23:10] <darkxst> (the theme that totem and a couple of other apps use by default)
[23:11] <bcx> ie if I use Adwaita for WM and/or gtk , it wil switch to a dark version if installed ?
[23:12] <bcx> it means themes contain light/dark information somewhere and that they are in some extent linked (or share a common prefix) ...


[02:50] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[03:06] <Ussat> I rip out snaps all together on my server installs
[03:07] <lotuspsychje> the users choice Ussat
[03:07] <Ussat> Honestly, I wish snaps were not included at all in server  uilds
[03:07] <Ussat> Just an extra hassle
[03:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah, i also share same opinion, leave the user the choice to go snappy at all
[03:08] <lotuspsychje> but i think its a world in motion, when devs start to integrate things by default snap
[03:09] <lotuspsychje> i also like the way oerheks says; just like the ppa's, you have to trust the snap maintainer(s)
[03:10] <Ussat> 'My problem with snaps, is the implimentation, they can push an update whenever......I controll when my servers get updated, not some random dev
[03:10] <Ussat> With a PPA, its different, they dont self upodate whenever
[03:11] <Ussat> What is to stop some dev from fscking up bad and opushing the snap and having it update without me knowing ?
[03:11] <lotuspsychje> its true
[03:11] <Ussat> snaps do not belong in an enterprise OS
[03:11] <Ussat> period.
[03:11] <lotuspsychje> Ussat: when you leave a journalctl -f open these days, ubuntu has a secret internal life these days
[03:12] <lotuspsychje> imagine if you got 50 snaps installed, what happens under the hood
[03:12] <Ussat> Whats to stop a dev from pushing out a back door, repos get hacked
[03:12] <Ussat> and yes, same can be said about a PPA, but at least I KNOW when a ppa is updated
[03:13] <lotuspsychje> lets say the devs machine gets compromized, you get access to thousands users boxes for your malware update
[03:14] <lotuspsychje> auto anything is a bad idea, and specialy for servers
[03:14] <lotuspsychje> the admin needs its control
[03:14] <Ussat> exactly
[03:15] <Ussat> Now, that said, I validate everything in my test env, but still
[03:15] <Ussat> if snaps did not auto update..problem solved
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> well you can mess around with their timers yourself but..
[03:16] <sarnold> not enough, though
[03:16] <sarnold> I can't tell you how many bloody times I've come in to work on a monday morning and found mattermost entirely useless because snap updated it over the weekend
[03:16] <lotuspsychje> yikes
[03:16] <Ussat> ^^
[03:17] <sarnold> and that's just a stupid chat application
[03:17] <Ussat> Now, snaps on a desktop....eh, I generally dont care
[03:17] <sarnold> if it's a database server? noooooope.
[03:17] <sarnold> it's *really* frustrating, because there's a bunch of good ideas there
[03:17] <Ussat> but I cant believe the devs thought this was a good idea
[03:17] <sarnold> but the handful of *boggle* problems are seriously hindering it
[03:17] <Ussat> There are some really good ideas, implimentation was crap
[03:17] <lotuspsychje> snap can be cool, if you admin choose for your own to have a single box with a few snaps that arent on the apt repos
[03:19] <Ussat> We have looked into that
[03:21] <lotuspsychje> we got a server admin as volunteers that didnt like the default chromium browser going snappy neither
[05:54] <marcoagpinto> The demon!
[07:20] <ducasse> good morning
[07:43] <marcoagpinto> hey hey
[07:43] <marcoagpinto> "a coder's work is never resumed"
[07:43] <marcoagpinto> :)
[10:51] <sandrolinux> Hello
[10:51] <guiverc> G'day sandrolinux
[10:52] <guiverc> What have you discovered in IRC?  or still trying to work it all out?
[10:52] <sandrolinux> Yeah I am still trying to work out how to use weechat
[10:55] <guiverc> I've never used it, have thought about trying it (and irssi) but never get to it..
[11:06] <sandrolinux> it is pretty good but a bit confusing
[11:12] <sandrolinux> What is the irc you are using?
[11:15] <guiverc> hexchat...  was default when I started using it.. just haven't changed
[11:16] <guiverc> quassel is now default for my chosen desktop
[11:18] <sandrolinux> Ok cool weechat is pretty lightweight and it is terminal based which is great for ppl like me who love the terminal
[11:19] <sandrolinux> What is your favourite ubuntu flavour?
[11:20] <guiverc> I'm using Lubuntu/LXQt (so a terminal client makes more sense for me I think too)
[11:22] <lotuspsychje> mine are -dekstop & -lubuntu
[11:23] <sandrolinux> Mine might be mate
[11:23] <sandrolinux> I like all of them really
[11:23] <guiverc> sandrolinux, I also have Xubuntu installed on his box, plus ubuntu-desktop installed (ie. multiple desktops installed; I had mate till a few months back, needed disk space)
[11:24] <sandrolinux> ok
[11:24] <sandrolinux>  Always been interested by Ubuntu Kylin but have not tried it yet
[11:25] <guiverc> I've done some QA-test installs to explore it (Kylin), but the non-english was a barrier to really appreciated it for me.
[11:25] <lotuspsychje> your chinese isnt fluid guiverc :p:p
[11:26] <guiverc> not even close !
[11:28] <sandrolinux> My chinese is terrible but I am trying to learn Mandrin so it should hopefully improve
[11:29] <sandrolinux> The chinese goverment don't trust microsoft that is probably why they made stock Kylin
[11:29] <guiverc> :)    Kylin looked great... (bright & cheery as I recall, but it was a xenial spin I think I last tried.. 16.04.5 maybe so late 2018 & awhile ago now)
[11:30] <sandrolinux> Why would you trust a US company if you were the Chinese goverment? Microsoft are a part of the prism project
[11:31] <guiverc> Yeah I'd agree.. Canonical funded Kylin (flavor) for 5 years for 16.04/xenial instead of usual 3, so they threw some $s at it (first LTS)
[11:33]  * guiverc is heading towards bed.. night folks
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> nite mate
[11:35] <lotuspsychje> one chinese, two chinese, three...ZZZZzzzzZZZ
[11:42] <sandrolinux> Never tried Budgie before got to try it soon
[11:45] <sandrolinux> Anyone had experience with Ubuntu Budgie?
[12:25] <sandrolinux> Hello Sven_vB_!
[14:11] <Sven_vB> hello sandrolinux
[14:15] <sandrolinux> what is your favourite ubuntu flavour?
[14:15] <lotuspsychje> -troll alert-
[14:16]  * Ussat plays star trek klaxon warning
[14:16] <Ussat> o/ lotuspsychje
[14:17] <lotuspsychje> hey Ussat ; )
[14:17] <sandrolinux> What do you think of snaps?
[14:18] <Ussat> I think ignore is a wonderfull feature
[14:20] <lotuspsychje> i dont believe in ignores actually, stick head in sand method, while they still there
[14:20] <Ussat> fair
[14:25] <lotuspsychje> Ussat: bug #1799165
[14:26] <lotuspsychje> was a wishlist once i filed :p
[15:13] <Sven_vB> sandrolinux, Xfce, without snapd.


[09:50] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[11:57] <icey> ahoy
[13:16] <ChinnoDog> Morning
[13:38] <teddy-dbear> \o


 Plasma 5.17 beta out later. I will try to build it for ppa:kubuntu-ppa/beta
[11:47] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
 https://dot.kde.org/2019/09/19/plasma-517-beta-out-testing
[16:34] <genii> 5.18 LTS is scheduled for Feb 11, is the plan to ship Kubuntu 20.04 with it as default?
[16:34] <RikMills> genii: yep
[16:34] <genii> Excellent, thanks
 hi all, why is my setting doesn't show the "Night Color" or i missed look ?
 No idea here. I can't run wayland
 at the changelog say it on X11
 Oh. yeah. not sure then
 and i didnt login to wayland quite long time since my gdm3 doesn't show plasma with wayland option even though i installed the plasma-workspace-wayland
 @RikMills, so you also doesn't have the "Night Color" in Settings ?
 I haven't built 5.17 beta yet
 and I don't run kci. so can't test
 https://kde.org/announcements/plasma-5.16.90.php
 5.16.9 == 5.17 beta or 5.16.9 != 5.17 beta ?
 or maybe i understood the version wrongly :(
 ?
 looks right. I have not tested yet so can't say more
 @RikMills, means 5.16.9 is 5.17 beta ?
 yes
 @RikMills, then i need to until you tested it :)
 or anyone else have tested ?
 sorry my bad .. just now when i wrote the message ... i haven't fully update staging-plasma packaging to 5.16.9
 its more c00l compare to gnome .. it detect our location 💪🏻👍🏻
[20:44] <valorie> RikMills: can you give us the word when the beta is in the PPA and ready to test?
[20:44] <valorie> I can tweet about it
[20:46] <valorie> once I add the ppa, discover reports an update available, but don't want to get it until it's ready
[20:51] <RikMills> valorie: I just very quickly upgraded a Eoan and disco+backports from the staging ppa, and plasma seems to start and work ok on a quick test
[20:52] <valorie> kewl
[20:52] <valorie> so is the backports ppa ready to test?
[20:52] <RikMills> valorie: beta ppa! there are a few non x86 builds to finish before I can ppa copy
[20:53] <valorie> k
[20:53] <valorie> thank you so much for your quick work
[20:53] <RikMills> when all is in the beta ppa, I will ping :)
[20:53] <RikMills> np :D
[20:53] <valorie> awesomesauce
[20:58] <RikMills> to be clear, the beta is going in ppa:kubuntu-ppa-beta
[20:59] <RikMills> Eoan already has the minimum frameworks 5.62.- required, so that ppa is enough
[21:00] <RikMills> On disco, that beta ppa + the backports ppa must be used
[21:00] <RikMills> grrr
[21:00] <RikMills> mistype
[21:01] <RikMills> ppa:kubuntu-ppa/beta
[21:03] <RikMills> No support, but problem reports welcome
[21:04] <RikMills> If the beta breaks your system "You get to keep both halves" ;)
[21:04] <valorie> and there is always ppa-purge
[21:04] <RikMills> yup
[21:36] <RikMills> valorie: plasm-workspace tar fix means a slight delay
[21:37] <valorie> np
[21:37] <valorie> I've noticed a bit of back and forth in #plasma, which is normal at deadlines
[21:59] <RikMills> huury up and build arm* things, damn you
[22:30] <RikMills> valorie: I think we are good for the beat
[22:30] <valorie> excellent
[22:30] <RikMills> any issues, I'll have to sort in the morning
[22:30] <valorie> in a min I'll start the upgrade
[22:30] <RikMills> good night ZZZzzz...
[22:30] <valorie> thanks again; sleep well!
[22:51] <valorie> so far, so good on the beta \o/


[00:03] <MICROburst> minimal: Does this (https://pastebin.com/6TnsSirb) make things clearer? BTW is does not matter whether "en_DK" or "en_DK.UTF-8" is used. "locale-gen en_DK.UTF-8"  completes w/o error.
[00:05] <minimal> that shows you specifying an invalid locale value: "en_DK", what happens with "en_DK.UTF-8"?
[00:06] <minimal> from the "update-locale" manpage *IT* updates /etc/default/locale, so obviously if the call to update-locale (by cloud-init) fails then that's why the file is unchanged
[00:10] <MICROburst> "en_DK", what happens with "en_DK.UTF-8"? -- To quote myself '''BTW is does not matter whether "en_DK" or "en_DK.UTF-8" is used.'''
[00:11] <minimal> MICROburst: you have not shown (debug) logs with en_DK.UTF-8 specified though
[00:12] <MICROburst> the excerpt is from /var/log/cloud-init-output.log.
[00:13] <minimal> ok, I'd asked for cloud-init.log with debug enabled...
[00:14] <MICROburst> So I need to re-install the VM? - where do I need to enable 'debug' exactly?
[00:15] <minimal> so if "update-locale --locale-file=/etc/default/locale LANG=en_DK.UTF-8" does not work when run by hand then obviously it also will not work when run by cloud-init
[00:18] <MICROburst> "update-locale --locale-file=/etc/default/locale LANG=en_DK.UTF-8" works as expected
[00:21] <minimal> you'd need to edit the /etc/cloud/cloud.cfg.d/05_logging.cfg to change things from INFO to DEBUG, then clear up the cloud-init files so it thinks it has never been run and then reboot the VM
[00:22] <MICROburst> minimal: bedtime here: 01:21 (AM) -- Hope to catch you later.
[00:22] <minimal> MICROburst: ok, so if that ran manually it should also work from cloud-init ASSUMING the required packages (locales, not sure about locales-all) are already installed when the VM first boots
[00:22] <minimal> MICROburst: who created this VM image?
[07:51] <meena> minimal: that would've been my first question. Who's making these Debian images where you can't even set a locale
[15:06] <minimal> meena: well one of my first questions was which distro were they using as that wasn't originally indicated;-)
[15:33] <meena> anyone wanna take a look at https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/1957 and see if this is going in the right direction?
[15:33] -ubottu:#cloud-init- Pull 1957 in canonical/cloud-init "add function is_virtual to distro/FreeBSD" [Open]
[15:38] <meena> I think vurtual() could be better named virtualization() or virtualisation()? whatever the canonical form
[15:39] <meena> which I guess is a pretty good argument for calling it virtual() lol
[15:40] <minimal> meena: Canonical form? MAAS or LXD perhaps? ;-)
[15:42] <minimal> s/MAAS/Multipass/
[15:43] <meena> :D


[01:57] <cjohnston> allenap: ping
[02:16] <cjohnston> Anyone around?
[02:30] <seattlegaucho> cjohnston: I'm in for a few mins
[02:31] <cjohnston> seattlegaucho: any idea when yall changed from the washingtonstate team to ubuntu-us-wa
[02:31] <seattlegaucho> nope, I joined shortly after
[02:31] <cjohnston> hmm. ok
[02:32] <seattlegaucho> I believe it was a change of people
[02:32] <seattlegaucho> basically, many old timers left ... many new comers stayed and ...
[02:32] <seattlegaucho> whatever couldn't be figured out it changed slightly
[02:32] <cjohnston> ok
[02:32] <cjohnston> I guess I just need to talk to an admin
[02:32] <cjohnston> to see about the problem
[02:33] <seattlegaucho> valorie could probably point you in the right direction
[02:33] <seattlegaucho> Salt would be another guess of mine
[02:34] <seattlegaucho> I just stick around to check what's going on and participate in events if possible (ie: launch parties, linuxfest nw, oscon, etc.)
[02:34] <seattlegaucho> the events are far apart ... but I do what I can
[02:35] <Salt> sup
[02:35] <Salt> cjohnston, what do you need?
[02:37]  * seattlegaucho now feels cjohnston will be in good hands
[02:37] <seattlegaucho> see y'all tomorrow
[02:38] <cjohnston> sorry Salt
[02:38] <cjohnston> Are you one of the LP/LD admins?
[02:39] <Salt> what do you mean LP/LD?
[02:39] <valorie> unfortunately, Chuck has the keys
[02:39] <cjohnston> Launchpad and LoCo Directory
[02:39] <valorie> and seems unwilling to pass them along to someone who cares
[02:39] <Salt> yeah, there's a lot of issues with group ownership
[02:40] <Salt> but i've been around since the beginning
[02:40] <valorie> Linda is as close as we have to an owner
[02:40] <cjohnston> Have y'all gotten the LoCo Council involved?
[02:40] <valorie> and she's not here right  now
[02:40] <Salt> at the moment, no
[02:40] <valorie> cjohnston: if we would ever get around to having elections
[02:40] <valorie> then there would be someone official to pass them along to
[02:41] <valorie> this group seems to have taken the state land mollusk as its role model
[02:41] <valorie> lol
[02:41] <cjohnston> Well.. That'd be the corrrect step to get the "ownership" part fixed.. I still think that the "owner" thing is stupid.. You can't own (I guess shouldn't own) a loco team
[02:41] <Salt> right now things are a bit of a general mish mas
[02:41] <Salt> h
[02:41] <valorie> indeed
[02:41] <cjohnston> Well.. I know that the 'team owner' can merge teams.. I don't remember if the team admins can or not
[02:42] <big_t> hello :)
[02:42] <cjohnston> hello
[02:42] <valorie> I think there was some general dissatifaction with the end of the PNW team
[02:42] <valorie> and enthusiasm just sorta died
[02:42] <cjohnston> PNW?
[02:42] <valorie> re-animation attempts have been less than successful
[02:43] <valorie> first came the Pacific Northwest team
[02:43] <valorie> then Ubuntu decided no regional teams
[02:43] <cjohnston> ic
[02:43] <valorie> the state one just never got going after PNW was disbanded
[02:43] <Salt> yeah, we had been a very active team and were basically given the door
[02:44] <valorie> people really don't like being told what to do
[02:44] <valorie> which -- has good sides, and downsides
[02:44] <valorie> up and down, rather
[02:44] <cjohnston> Well.. I guess thats kinda life..
[02:45] <valorie> yep
[02:45] <valorie> we'll keep plugging away
[02:45] <valorie> our "contact" is never in contact
[02:46] <valorie> that is a current problem
[02:46] <valorie> again, Chuck
[02:46] <cjohnston> If yall can get ahold of Chuck or Linda they should be able to merge the teams.
[02:46] <cjohnston> And start the process of getting the council involved
[02:46] <valorie> it's been tried, but linda wasn't successful
[02:46] <Salt> brb
[02:47] <valorie> I'm guessing Chuck would have to do it, or give up the ownership
[02:47] <cjohnston> How was she not successful
[02:49] <valorie> I don't believe she had the necessary powerz to do it
[02:49] <valorie> Chuck is the sole owner, afaik
[02:50] <cjohnston> I'm looking at the code, but shes listed on LD as an admin, so IIRC she should be able to
[02:53] <valorie> I will ask her to try again
[02:53]  * valorie goes to write an email
[02:53] <cjohnston> When she tries, I need to know any errors that she comes up with
[02:53] <cjohnston> please
[02:53] <cjohnston> hard to fix "it doesnt work"
[02:54] <valorie> I'll tell her to ping you
[02:54] <cjohnston> ty
[02:54] <valorie> or email you?
[02:54] <cjohnston> email would be great
[02:54] <cjohnston> im on vacation till next tuesday
[02:54] <valorie><EMAIL_ADDRESS>?
[02:54] <Salt> if you stick around here she could probably just get on irc
[02:55] <cjohnston> is_admin = launchpad.is_admin_or_owner(request.user.username, team_object)
[02:55] <valorie> are you texting her, Salt?
[02:55] <cjohnston> She's listed as an admin, so she should be able to
[02:55] <Salt> nope, i could if you wanted
[02:55] <Salt> cjohnston, which team are you looking at
[02:55] <valorie> if she and cjohnston both have time now, that would be ideal
[02:56] <cjohnston> both Salt
[02:56] <cjohnston> if she can get on now i can stick around for a few
[02:56] <Salt> text sent
[02:56] <Salt> she's got dmin set on both now?
[02:57] <cjohnston> yup
[02:57] <cjohnston> dont know for how long, but she does
[02:58] <Salt> aye
[03:00] <valorie> I've just sent her an email with the scrollback for reference
[03:01] <cjohnston> thanks
[03:02] <cjohnston> valorie: Salt she can post https://bugs.launchpad.net/loco-directory/+bug/719482
[03:03] <valorie> nice summation there, cjohnston
[03:03] <Salt> i need to take off
[03:03] <Salt> i'll let her know if she responds
[03:03] <valorie> any response to that text?
[03:03] <valorie> ok
[03:04] <cjohnston> to what text
[03:04] <cjohnston> from the bug?
[03:05] <valorie> cjohnston: salt texted her, telling her to get on IRC
[03:05] <valorie> but no response as yet
[03:06] <valorie> c'mon althara!
[03:06] <cjohnston> oh,, ok
[03:06] <cjohnston> thanks
[03:06] <valorie> she isn't on the linuxchix server either
[15:04] <cjohnston> Mornin
[22:56] <big_t> MarkDude: what's up man?
[22:59] <MarkDude> Just found out vehicle will cost more to fix than its worth
[23:02] <Salt> i'm in a similar situation atm, thus why i don't have tabs right now >_>
[23:22] <big_t> MarkDude: using irssi for the first time took some time to get it all figured out but this is what i came up with http://imagebin.org/138313
[23:46] <big_t> MarkDude: did the oregon boys meet up yet?


[17:13] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: Eickmeyer I'm getting started on making this tutorial-video, but I'm missing one piece of the puzzle. In the case of fixing my missing calf-plugins, I had to edit the address of where it's at in the .ardour file. But where do I find the correct address for all my plugins?
[17:13] <sirriffsalot> Meaning, this for instance: "http://calf.sourceforge.net/plugins/Equalizer5Band"
[17:14] <sirriffsalot> Some I can find in my Carla list when I search for the specific plugin, but some don't seem to list this address anywhere
[18:58] <sirriffsalot> OvenWerks: Eickmeyer I made a tutorial-video for the missing-plugins issue, using the KXStudio example, but it applies to all such cases I suppose. Would it be of any use to you think: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sg4zqsvt9uciger/How%20To%3A%20Fix%20%22Missing%20Plugins%22%20in%20Ardour.mp4?dl=0 ?
[19:06] <tomreyn> hi, i'd like to improve voice recording quality by buying a usb microphone. and just using it with alsa + pulseaudio, if possible. i'm wondering how well supported those mics are though, they seem to mostly have device specific drivers fro other OSes.
[19:06] <tomreyn> *for
[19:21] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: USB-microphones are pretty meh imo, also what are you planning on recording with, Ardour?
[19:24] <tomreyn> sirriffsalot: it's not professional, this is just to not sound completely terrible by using a laptop-internal mic or an in-ear phone headset when doing video conferencing really.
[19:26] <tomreyn> also i'd probably not really be using ubuntustudio but there just standard ubuntu (unless there are good reasons for this use case), i just hoped i could steal some knowledge here.
[19:39] <tomreyn> so i was thinking something like Blue Yeti or AT2020usb+, but i have no idea whether those work with linux, or whether i *have to* get an audio interface (which is otherwise not useful to me, because i don't do anything professional about audio really).
[19:51] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: if you're not planning on using ubunstudio then you're kinda asking in the wrong place..
[19:51] <sirriffsalot> If you're planning on recording with ardour, you're gonna have to use the jack audio server
[19:52] <tomreyn> sirriffsalot: yes, i shouldn't have asked here in the first place, sorry.
[19:52] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: if you're just using this device to have a conference/call, you don't need to record the audio, just have skype or whatever select the usb-device via pulseaudio/pavucontrol
[19:52] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: no worries :) But your question was kinda misleading as well, hehe
[19:52] <Eickmeyer> sirriffsalot: tomreyn does a lot of support for non-Studio issues in this channel.
[19:53] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer: ok?
[19:53] <Eickmeyer> tomreyn: It's all good. If you're looking at a USB mic, most are pretty well supported. I think I have heard of people having no issues with Blue Yeti, but you might ask in #lau (Linux Audio Users) to be sure.
[19:53] <tomreyn> thanks Eickmeyer, but he's still right it's not ubuntu studio related, i shouldn't have brought it up here
[19:54] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: but if all you're doing are audio-calls, a USB-device should be just fine, I use them myself for that
[19:54] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: headset that is
[19:55] <tomreyn> great, thanks, Eickmeyer, i might ask in #lau then (didn't know about this channel!) once i looked up some more mics
[19:55] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer: any thoughts on the tutorial, btw, now that you're here? :)
[19:55] <tomreyn> actually for what i'm doing, a lavallier mic may actually be the better option
[19:55] <Eickmeyer> sirriffsalot: I haven't had a chance, and might not get to it today. :/
[19:56] <tomreyn> and thanks to you as well
[19:56] <tomreyn> sirriffsalot: ^
[19:56] <Eickmeyer> tomreyn: There's a plethora of lavallier mics that work with USB audio cards (the cheap $10 kind) on Amazon.
[19:57] <tomreyn> i just looked at Rode SmartLav+
[20:15] <sirriffsalot> tomreyn: sure thing
[20:15] <sirriffsalot> Eickmeyer: alright, lemme know
[21:27] <OvenWerks> tomreyn: for USB audio interfaces (usb mics too) do not look at if it requires a driver for windows but rather if it requires a driver for macOS
[21:28] <OvenWerks> windows seems to have lagged way behind everyone else. if a USB device is "class compliant" (MacOS does not allow device drivers) then it should just work.


[15:21] <jadarite> Hello
[15:21] <jadarite> anyone there?
[15:34] <mhall119> I am
[21:15] <highvoltage> mhall119: heh, he just needed a little more patience :)
[22:31] <micahg> hi stgraber
[22:32] <stgraber> hi micahg
[22:33] <micahg> I was wondering, if I want to introduce someone to Edubuntu, am I better giving them the Lucid version or the Maverick version?
[22:33] <stgraber> Maverick
[22:33] <micahg> k, thanks
[22:33] <stgraber> the installer has been improved quite a bit
[22:34] <micahg> great, I'm trying to get a *very* small school converted
[22:34] <stgraber> Edubuntu isn't LTS anyway, so you'll have longer support with 10.10
[22:34] <stgraber> though taking 10.04 will give you LTS support for all packages that are also part of Ubuntu (95% or so of Edubuntu)
[22:35] <micahg> right, I'm not sure what the upgrade requirements are, probably not an issue