[02:14] <mariana> teste
[02:15] <mariana> #acre
[08:04] <sameepvicky> When I screen share using Zoom or Skype, and try to type or write/draw using a pen on any app like xournal or inkscape, there is a significant lag. This lag is there when using ubuntu based distro like lubuntu 19.10 or KDE Neon 18.04 or Mint 19.2 Cinnamon. This lag is there on the Machine Lenovo AIO 330 using linux (not there in Windows). This lag is not there on my different machine (Dell Inspiron 1525) using linux or windows.
[08:06] <guiverc> We don't support KDE Neon or Mint
[08:10] <sameepvicky> The lag is there using lubuntu 19.10 on lenovo aio 330, while screen sharing
[08:12] <sameepvicky> I think some driver issue, but all the drivers seems to be there
[08:14] <guiverc> I don't know zoom or skype (library/toolkit wise) so don't know impact on resources/memory & how it impacts with desktop ... so can't comment except I'm not thinking kernel modules (aka drivers)
[08:19]  * guiverc thinks you've also mentioned two other communities you're part of so can ask them; the cinnamon does somewhat lessen what i was thinking though.. unless zoom/skype is that really out-of-date tk/lib wise..
[08:21] <sameepvicky> ok..
 @teward001 re: sudo issue,
 I don't see the error on `lxc exec focal-dev -- su --login ubuntu`
 but I see it on  … `lxc exec focal-dev -- sudo --login --user ubuntu`
 get the difference?
[18:52] <tron> hey guys, can i ask a question?
[18:53] <diogenes_> !ask
[18:53] <tron> today i installed 19.10 lxqt lubuntu
[18:53] <tron> and some windows are too large for my screen
[18:53] <tron> is there a way to fix it?
[18:54] <diogenes_> some?
[18:54] <tron> like when i open desktop preferences
[18:55] <tron> i can't see okay and apply buttons on the buttom
[18:55] <tron> i have to use alt key and move it to top a little bit to reach these buttons
[18:56] <diogenes_> oh, you can use keyboard shortcuts to resize them.
 that is a known issue. We reported it to upstream. It occurs mostly on small screens
[18:57] <tron> i'm on a 10.1 inch netbook
 yeah. occurs even on my 11 inch one.
[18:58] <tron> so i have to wait for an update to fix it right?
[18:59] <tron> silence says okay
[18:59] <tron> thanks for the help
 @tron [<tron> so i have to wait for an update to fix it right?], yup!
[19:09] <The_LoudSpeaker> oh they left
 @The_LoudSpeaker [I don't see the error on … lxc exec focal-dev -- su --login ubuntu], but future sudo commands do give that error again.
 nonethless
[22:22] <eugenio> hi
[22:22] <eugenio> how are you?
[22:25] <wxl> eugenio: what's up?
[22:25] <eugenio> nothing


[00:10] <Venture> Hello
[00:11] <Venture> a bit quiet in here
[00:16] <sebsebseb> Venture: very much so
[00:16] <Venture> always like this?
[00:16] <sebsebseb> Venture: no
[00:16] <Venture> i see
[00:16] <sebsebseb> just no sessions going on at the moment
[00:16] <Venture> sessions?
[00:17] <sebsebseb> !openweek
[00:17] <Venture> they really have classes in here?
[00:17] <sebsebseb> that factoid is wrong
[00:17] <sebsebseb> open week is this week
[00:17] <sebsebseb> plus this channel will get used for other stuff as well
[00:17] <sebsebseb> yes go on the link
[00:17] <sebsebseb> !logs
[00:17] <Venture> i will check it out
[00:20] <sebsebseb> Venture: yes they really have classes in here, and then people ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and such when one is going on
[00:21] <Venture> thats pretty cool
[04:57] <qwebirc59883> a
[15:03] <jcastro> 1 hour until the last day begins!
[15:46] <effie_jayx> o/
[15:51] <jrib> where's the pie? I was promised pie
[15:57] <cjohnston> 3 minutes
[15:58] <akgraner> dholbach is up 1t with a 2 hour session on Introduction to Ubuntu Development  - :-)
[15:58] <akgraner> 1st even
[15:58] <cjohnston> hey akgraner
[16:00] <akgraner> hey cjohnston
[16:00] <cjohnston> here it goes
[16:00] <dholbach> HELLO EVERYBODY! WELCOME TO THE LAST DAY OF UBUNTU OPEN WEEK! :)
[16:01] <dholbach> I have the pleasure of talking a bit about Ubuntu Development today. I hope you're excited as I am and have a good bunch of questions. :-)
[16:02] <dholbach> My name is Daniel Holbach, live in Berlin, work for Canonical and was always excited about our fantastic community and how I was welcomed into it and how everybody helped me get started working on my first packages. :)
[16:02] <dholbach> for those of you who haven't been to Ubuntu Open Week yet: please make sure you join #ubuntu-classroom-chat too
[16:03] <dholbach> and ask your questions in there
[16:03] <dholbach> please prefix them with QUESTION:
[16:03] <dholbach> ie: QUESTION: What is jcastro's cat called?
[16:03] <dholbach> Alright, let's get cracking :)
[16:03] <ClassBot> Kusa14 asked: If we use lernid it's automatic?
[16:04] <dholbach> yes, if you use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lernid (a great way to follow Ubuntu Open Week and other events in here), it's all automatic :)
[16:04] <dholbach> let's start with a few myths I try to clear up regularly :)
[16:05] <dholbach> first one and probably most popular one: "you need to be a hardcore hacker"
[16:05] <dholbach> regularly people who want to get involved with Ubuntu Development ask which programming languages they need to know to help
[16:06] <dholbach> and if 5 years of C, C++, Perl, Python, C#, PHP, etc. was enough
[16:07] <dholbach> my answer is: if you do know how to program in a language, that's great and it'll help you a lot and we have lots of bugs you can help to fix, but we also have a lot of bugs that you can help out fixing if you have these skills:
[16:07] <dholbach>  - some patience
[16:07] <dholbach>  - unafraid of a bit of documentaiton
[16:07] <dholbach>  - be a team player
[16:07] <dholbach>  - knack for making things work again
[16:08] <dholbach> so if you don't know 10 programming languages for 5 years yet, don't despair :)
[16:08] <dholbach> next popular myth: "you need to own a package"
[16:08] <dholbach> untrue
[16:08] <dholbach> nobody owns packages in Ubuntu, we maintain all packages as a big team
[16:09] <dholbach> there will always be people who have more experience with a specific piece of software than others and they will be something like "de-facto maintainers"
[16:09] <dholbach> but they don't have a gigantic lock on the package and will stop you from contributing to it
[16:09] <dholbach> so if you don't "have a package" or "maintain a package", that's totally fine
[16:10] <dholbach> we have a lot of people who are all-rounders and enjoy fixing heaps of bugs that simply occur to them
[16:11] <dholbach> also you don't need to "package something new" first thing, it's a lot better to start working on an existing package, improve it slowly - you'll find a lot more instant gratification this way :)
[16:11] <ClassBot> yltsrc asked: some people complain that maintainers don't accept changes or working on the same bug, how we can improve this situation?
[16:11] <dholbach> yltsrc: good question - we have the sponsorship process which I'll take some time to explain in a bit
[16:12] <dholbach> yltsrc: basically the answer is: we have a "separate queue" where patches, branches, etc. go that is reviewed regularly by everybody
[16:12] <dholbach> I guess it could always be quicker, but it's working quite OK at the moment
[16:12] <dholbach> as I said - I'll definitely get back to it
[16:12] <dholbach> another myth I'd like to clear up is "you need a mentor"
[16:13] <dholbach> some new contributors are frantically looking for a mentor and think that they can't get started without one
[16:13] <dholbach> that's not true
[16:13] <dholbach> while there's some developers that have close bonds to new contributors and who mentor them, it's not as if the mentor allows you to do something which you otherwise couldn't do :)
[16:14] <dholbach> you'll find a lot of very helpful people along the way who have been in a similar situation as you've been, and they'll be glad to help out
[16:14] <dholbach> it needs a bit of courage in the beginning, but it's totally worth it and I promise you a fun ride :)
[16:14] <dholbach> alright... that's the myths I heard recently - if you have any more questions or crazy stories you'd like to share about what you've heard is required, let me know in #ubuntu-classroom-chat :)
[16:15] <dholbach> there are a couple of requirements we do have though
[16:15] <dholbach> so the bad news is: you need to run the current development release (maverick now)
[16:16] <dholbach> the good news is: there is sane ways to do it, so you don't end up in break-o-rama
[16:16] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases explains how
[16:16] <dholbach> this page explains how you can use a virtual machine for example
[16:17] <dholbach> or how to set up a chroot, or ubuntu in a separate partition or something else
[16:17] <dholbach> it's important that if you work on the current development release, that you can test-build and test the packages you are working on
[16:17] <dholbach> there's no replacement for testing
[16:17] <dholbach> I said before that you can always get help easily
[16:18] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted is the only page you need to bookmark :)
[16:18] <dholbach> it links to all the pieces of documentation that make a good night-time read and explain what're doing over here
[16:18] <dholbach> #ubuntu-packaging and #ubuntu-motu on irc.freenode.net are full of incredibly helpful people who want to see you get involved and succeed in what you want to do
[16:19] <dholbach> so make sure you hang out there and ask your questions :)
[16:19] <dholbach> you'll also make a lot of friend there easily
[16:19] <dholbach> there's also the<EMAIL_ADDRESS>mailing list where you can ask questions "offline"
[16:20] <dholbach> any questions up until now?
[16:21] <dholbach> either everybody's sleeping or I didn't confuse everybody... yet
[16:21] <dholbach> hopefully the latter
[16:21] <dholbach> alright - let's get started setting up a development environment
[16:21] <dholbach> if you don't have a maverick vm or installation around, that's totally fine now - you can just repeat the steps in the vm later on
[16:22] <dholbach> first of all, we need to tell apt that we want to have access to source packages every now and then
[16:22] <dholbach> for that please do this:
[16:22] <dholbach>   System → Administration → Software Sources → Ubuntu Software → Enable "Sources"
[16:23] <dholbach> you can also edit  /etc/apt/sources.list  and add  deb-src  entries (mimicking the  deb  entries you have there)
[16:23] <dholbach> if you do it manually, make sure you run   sudo apt-get update   later on
[16:24] <dholbach> once you're done with that, please install a few packages we're going to need during this session
[16:24] <dholbach>    sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends ubuntu-dev-tools build-essential pbuilder gnupg debhelper
[16:24] <dholbach> (if I go too quick or don't make sense or "it doesn't work", please let me know)
[16:24] <dholbach> ok... what are we installing right now?
[16:25] <dholbach>  - ubuntu-dev-tools: very useful set of scripts that help with ubuntu development (also this pulls in stuff like devscripts), these packages will be your bread-and-butter
[16:25] <dholbach>  - build-essential: will pull in the essential tools to build software in general (it will pull in the compiler and all kinds of other stuff)
[16:26] <dholbach>  - pbuilder: build tool that automatically sets up a minimal environment in which packages are compiled in a clean and sane manner
[16:26] <dholbach>  - gnupg: used to sign/encrypt messages and files
[16:27] <dholbach>  - debhelper: set of tools that automate common tasks during the build (like process manpages, compress files, etc.) of the package
[16:27] <dholbach> ok, with that done, let's set up a gpg key
[16:28] <dholbach> if you already have one set up, you can skip this step, lay back, relax and get another cup of tea :)
[16:28] <dholbach> please run
[16:28] <dholbach>   gpg --gen-key
[16:28] <dholbach> it will ask you a bunch of questions, and it's safe to go with the defaults
[16:29] <dholbach> (just hit enteR)
[16:29] <dholbach> what it needs is your name and at least one email address
[16:29] <dholbach> (the comment is not necessary)
[16:30] <ClassBot> optix asked: my gpg key is 12 years old at 1024 bit encryption -- is that still good?
[16:32] <dholbach> optix: I personally would keep it, but I'm sure there's others who disagree :)
[16:32] <dholbach> optix: I once saw a "gpg key transition" document somewhere, but I can't find it right now
[16:32] <dholbach> at least for us there is no strict requirement to have XYZ bit key
[16:33] <dholbach> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto has lots more information about how to set it up, get your mail program to make use of it, etc etc
[16:33] <dholbach> you will (at some stage) need it to upload packages
[16:34] <dholbach> Launchpad only accepts uploaded source packages if it can tell who uploaded them
[16:34] <dholbach> for that you will sign source packages with your gpg key (it happens semi-automatically with the tools we installed above)
[16:35] <dholbach> once you're done with the questions of gpg, it will sit there and do some computation and probably say that it will need more random numbers, so we'll leave it alone for now and give the machine something else to do :)
[16:35] <dholbach> please start another terminal - we'll set up pbuilder now
[16:35] <dholbach> please edit ~/.pbuilderrc
[16:36] <dholbach> (if the file does not exist, please create it)
[16:36] <dholbach> and add the following line to it
[16:36] <dholbach> COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted"
[16:36] <dholbach> then save the file
[16:36] <dholbach> this will tell pbuilder that it can use packages from all components to satisfy build-time dependencies
[16:37] <dholbach> now please run
[16:37] <dholbach>   sudo pbuilder create
[16:37] <dholbach> and it will sit there and work a bit longer to get set up
[16:38] <dholbach> so while both tools are doing there job... what are we doing here?!?!?! how do those tools all work together?
[16:38] <dholbach> some of you might have downloaded software in source form before
[16:38] <dholbach> you usually run something like   ./configure --something; make; sudo make install   or   python ./setup.py build   or something else
[16:39] <dholbach> this is exactly what happens when Debian/Ubuntu packages are built
[16:39] <dholbach> we just wrap another layer of build system and description to it, so it forms the goodness we know as .deb packages
[16:41] <dholbach> so you'd download a source package (which is software in source form with the added layer of debian/ubuntu packaging goodness), make changes to it, sign it, test-build it in pbuilder (pbuilder will pull in build-depencies in the chrooted, clean, minimal environment) and you get a .deb package you can test-install and test, before you upload the new source package to Launchpad
[16:41] <dholbach> that's the overview over what we're doing here :)
[16:42] <dholbach> now, let's configure some other tools and we should be ready to go
[16:42] <dholbach> please edit ~/.bashrc
[16:43] <dholbach> and add something like this to the bottom of it
[16:43] <dholbach>    export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach'
[16:43] <dholbach>    export<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[16:43] <dholbach> please use YOUR NAME and YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS :)
[16:43] <dholbach> and please use the email address you gave gpg too
[16:43] <dholbach> if you don't use bash, but another shall, make sure you edit the right file (zsh → ~/.zshrc I believe)
[16:43] <dholbach> etc.
[16:44] <dholbach> when you saved the file, please run
[16:44] <dholbach>   source ~/.bashrc
[16:45] <dholbach> ok... with that done the tools should know who we are and add our name and email to changelog entries automatically, etc
[16:45] <dholbach> which makes development a bit more straight-forward :-)
[16:46] <dholbach> ok, if gpg is done for you, it's a good time to find out what your key id is, you're going to need it every now and then
[16:46] <dholbach>   gpg --fingerprint <your email address>
[16:46] <dholbach> should give you that information
[16:46] <dholbach> the output for me is something like this:
[16:46] <dholbach> pub   1024D/059DD5EB 2007-09-29
[16:46] <dholbach>       Key fingerprint = 3E5C 0B3C ......
[16:47] <dholbach> "059DD5EB" is my key id
[16:47] <dholbach> now you can tell gpg to send your public key to key servers who will exchange it among themselves
[16:48] <dholbach>   gpg --send-keys <key id>
[16:48] <dholbach> ^ please run this command
[16:48] <dholbach> your "gpg key" is split up in a public and a private part
[16:49] <dholbach> it's only the public part that is sent to the keyservers and it's what others can use to identify that messages are really signed by you and nobody else, that the messages are intact, etc.
[16:49] <dholbach> please also make sure that Launchpad learns about your key too
[16:49] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/people/+me/+editpgpkeys
[16:50] <dholbach> as I said before: once Launchpad knows about you and your GPG key, it can attribute uploaded source packages to you, but you can also drive the Launchpad Bugs interface by sending signed mails
[16:50] <dholbach> a quick note on uploading packages
[16:50] <dholbach> (and with that I get to Sponsoring as I promised earlier :-))
[16:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:51] <dholbach> ClassBot: 70 minutes, but I guess we can take a break at some stage. :-)
[16:51] <dholbach> if you now would take any source package, modify it and upload it to Launchpad, it wouldn't get into Ubuntu just like that
[16:51] <dholbach> you could set up a PPA (a Personal Package Archive) though, where you could host test packages you could share with others
[16:51] <dholbach> for that you'll need the gpg key too
[16:52] <dholbach> (more info on PPAs: https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA)
[16:52] <dholbach> now sponsoring:
[16:52] <dholbach> if you have a change you desperately want to get into Ubuntu here's how to get it there:
[16:52] <dholbach>  - attach the patch (or link to the new source package you built) to a bug report
[16:52] <dholbach>  - subscribe the 'ubuntu-sponsors' team to the bug report
[16:52] <dholbach> done
[16:53] <ClassBot> bencrisford asked: If I already have a GPG key, is it easy to set up so I can use it on another machine also?
[16:53] <dholbach> bencrisford: yes, you can basically just copy ~/.gnupg over
[16:53] <ClassBot> effie_jayx asked: I have an old version of my key with only one email address, I have added my ubuntu.com address to it. Should I upload the new version of my key
[16:54] <dholbach> effie_jayx: yes, that way the world learns about your ubuntu.com address :)
[16:54] <dholbach> sponsoring is the way to get fixes in... and the great thing about it is that you get a lot of different people reviewing your stuff
[16:55] <dholbach> that way you learn from a variety of people
[16:55] <dholbach> and your get to know a bunch of different developers, who can later on testify about your great work when you apply for upload privileges
[16:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[16:56] <dholbach> with that I think we know what the big scheme looks like
[16:56] <dholbach> let's take a 5 minute break
[16:56] <dholbach> then we'll take a look at a source package together :)
[16:56] <dholbach> I'll go and make some tea - see you in a bit
[17:01] <dholbach> ok... I'm back, tea almost ready :)
[17:01] <dholbach> how was part 1? everything OK so far? anything unclear?
[17:02] <dholbach> p3rg2z asks "is this session logged somewhere where I can access it later?"
[17:02] <dholbach> yes, it will be linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
[17:02] <dholbach> and also on http://irclogs.ubuntu.com
[17:03] <dholbach> any more questions?
[17:03] <dholbach> if not, let's crack on and let's see how ugly, unfair and bad packaging really is
[17:03] <ClassBot> Miroslav_RS asked: What is jcastro's cat called?
[17:04] <dholbach> Miroslav_RS: good one - I believe it's called Miguel :)
[17:04] <dholbach> to get us in the packaging business, please run
[17:04] <dholbach>   apt-get source hello-debhelper
[17:05] <dholbach> (this should work if you checked this tickbox: System → Administration → Software Sources → Ubuntu Software → Enable "Sources"
[17:05] <dholbach> )
[17:05] <ClassBot> plod63 asked: if we have questions after we try this ourselves (sorry i know i should be doing it now but my vm isnt installing fast enough, what is the best place to ask them)?
[17:05] <dholbach> plod63: #ubuntu-packaging and #ubuntu-motu
[17:05] <dholbach> or<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:06] <dholbach> ok... I have three new files lying around now:
[17:06] <dholbach> ello-debhelper_2.4-3.diff.gz  hello-debhelper_2.4-3.dsc  hello-debhelper_2.4.orig.tar.gz
[17:06] <dholbach> sorry, make that:
[17:06] <dholbach> hello-debhelper_2.4-3.diff.gz  hello-debhelper_2.4-3.dsc  hello-debhelper_2.4.orig.tar.gz
[17:07] <dholbach> .orig.tar.gz is the file that somebody got directly from the homepage of the developers of hello
[17:07] <dholbach> the .diff.gz contains changes we make to make the package build the debian/ubuntu way (the packaging)
[17:07] <dholbach> and the .dsc file is a piece of text with meta data like checksums and the like
[17:08] <dholbach> the three files together are what we call the "source package"
[17:08] <dholbach> that's what you download to modify it and look at the source or upload to get it built in launchpad
[17:09] <dholbach> recently some changes in the debian/ubuntu packaging world allow different kinds of source packages, but in essence it's "the same": unmodified upstream tarball, bunch of changes, meta-data
[17:09] <dholbach> "apt-get source" (actually dpkg-source) was kind enough to unpack the tarball and apply the changes for us
[17:10] <dholbach> so let's have a look what we have here
[17:10] <dholbach>   cd hello-debhelper-2.4
[17:10] <dholbach> if you have a look what's in the directory, you find the usually stuff you have when you compile software
[17:10] <dholbach> a README file, a configure script and the like
[17:11] <dholbach> what's new is the debian/ directory, which is where the packaging goes
[17:11] <dholbach> it contains these files here:
[17:11] <dholbach>   changelog  compat  control  copyright  rules
[17:11] <dholbach> if you
[17:11] <dholbach>   less debian/changelog
[17:12] <dholbach> it will show you the history of the last hello-debhelper releases
[17:12] <dholbach> the entries always stick to the same format:
[17:12] <dholbach> <source package name> (<version>) <debian/ubuntu release>; urgency=<some urgency>
[17:13] <dholbach> then some bullet points about what changed in that revision
[17:13] <dholbach> then the name and email address who made the changes and the timestamp
[17:13] <dholbach> <source package name> in our case is hello-debhelper
 in my case is 2.4-3
[17:14] <dholbach> let's have a look at the version more closely
[17:14] <dholbach> "2.4" means that 2.4 was released by the upstream developers, the software authors
[17:14] <dholbach> and the "-3" means that three revisions of this version were uploaded to Debian
[17:15] <dholbach> if now upstream decided to release 2.5 and I was to package it, I'd upload 2.5-0ubuntu1 to Ubuntu
[17:15] <dholbach> which would mean 2.5 released upstream, 0 revisions of it in Debian, first revision in Ubuntu
[17:15] <dholbach> (I hope that was clear enough :-))
[17:16] <dholbach> <debian/ubuntu release> was "unstable" because that's where the debian maintainer uploaded it
[17:16] <dholbach> I'd upload to "maverick" instead
[17:17] <dholbach> in Ubuntu you can only upload to the current development release
[17:17] <dholbach> there are ways to get packages backported or bugs fixed in <old-release>-updates, but that's side-cases :)
[17:18] <dholbach> alright, I think that should be enough for debian/changelog :)
[17:19] <dholbach> debian/compat is quite boring, as it merely controls the behaviour of the debhelper scripts used (more on that later), but it's safe to ignore that for now
[17:19] <dholbach> debian/control is one of the heart pieces of the package, so let's have a look at it now
[17:20] <ClassBot> akk asked: in "2.5-0ubuntu1" why the 1 after ubuntu?
[17:21] <dholbach> akk: 2.5-0ubuntu1 means: the software authors released version 2.5, "-0" means that it wasn't introduced in Debian yet, "ubuntu1" means it's the first revision of it in Ubuntu
[17:21] <dholbach> so 2.5-0ubuntu2 would be the same, but the second revision of it in Ubuntu
[17:22] <dholbach> basically it's     X-YubuntuZ    for packages we decide to modify in Ubuntu (as opposed to packages we inherit as they are from Debian)
[17:22] <dholbach> (and ignoring the case of native packages, which we'll ... ignore for now :-))
[17:22] <dholbach> back to debian/control:
[17:23] <dholbach> it always consists of at least 2 stanzas
[17:23] <dholbach> first one describes the source package
[17:23] <dholbach> all the following ones describe the resulting binary (.deb) packages
[17:25] <dholbach> source packages can build more than one binary package
[17:25] <dholbach> for example you could have a nice tool that has a massive amount of documentation
[17:25] <dholbach> in that case you'd probably want to create
[17:25] <dholbach>  nice-tool  and  nice-tool-doc
[17:25] <dholbach> so you don't overburden people who JUST WANT THE tool :)
[17:26] <dholbach> over here the source entry looks like this:
[17:26] <dholbach> Source: hello-debhelper
[17:26] <dholbach> Section: devel
[17:26] <dholbach> Priority: extra
[17:26] <dholbach> Maintainer: Santiago Vila<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[17:26] <dholbach> Standards-Version: 3.8.3
[17:26] <dholbach> Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 7)
[17:28] <dholbach> you define the name of the project, place it in some section (the debian policy knows all the valid sections), give it a Priority (defined in the debian policy too), you tell it who the maintainer is (as I said before that's less important in the ubuntu world), you specify the Standards-Version (version of the debian policy the package complies with) ...
[17:28] <dholbach> and you mention the Build-Depends
[17:28] <dholbach> this is the list of packages that are required to compile the package
[17:28] <dholbach> in our case it's a very small list, it's just debhelper
[17:28] <dholbach> (build-essential is always required to be there, so it doesn't need to be mentioned explicitly)
[17:29] <dholbach> in the source section, you will, apart from the Build-Depends, rarely make changes
[17:29] <dholbach> so let's proceed to our binary package stanza
[17:29] <dholbach> the first part of it is:
[17:29] <dholbach> in the source section, you will, apart from the Build-Depends, rarely make changes
[17:29] <dholbach> oops
[17:29] <dholbach> wrong paste :)
[17:29] <dholbach> Package: hello-debhelper
[17:29] <dholbach> Architecture: any
[17:29] <dholbach> Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}
[17:30] <dholbach> the package name is defined too
[17:30] <dholbach> now we specify for which architectures the package is built
[17:31] <dholbach> there are two very common values for "Architecture" that regularly cause confusion :)
[17:31] <dholbach> in our case it's "any"
[17:31] <dholbach> which means: build this package for each and every architecture individually
[17:32] <dholbach> so we'll have a different package for every architecture later on: i386, amd64, powerpc, sparc, arm, lpia, ia64, etc
[17:32] <dholbach> the other very common value is "all"
[17:33] <dholbach> which means: this package has no architecture-dependent bits, build it once, use same package on all architectures
[17:33] <dholbach> for example if you have a couple of shell scripts in the package, or a few pictures
[17:33] <dholbach> they are always going to be the same, no matter on which architecture you use the package
[17:34] <dholbach> but you could also specify specific architecture where the package will be built
[17:35] <dholbach> Conflicts/Replaces/Provides are set to "hello" which means that dpkg won't allow you to install the hello and hello-debhelper package at the same time (they both contain usr/bin/hello and would overwrite each other)
[17:35] <dholbach> there's a lot you can do wrong with conflicts and replaces, that's why that part in the debian policy is a very good read :)
[17:36] <dholbach> following that we have a short description (first line) and a long description following that
[17:36] <dholbach> this is what "apt-cache show ...", synaptic and all the others will show you
[17:36] <dholbach> and that for a few releases now is translatable
[17:37] <dholbach> there are heaps of other settings you could make in debian/control, but I think what we see here is a good start
[17:37] <dholbach> do we have any questions about these=?
[17:38] <dholbach> ok, then please let me get back to versions once again, this short discussion happened in #ubuntu-classroom-chat a few moments ago
 how do you know if its been released in debian yet or not, should you be monitoring there first?
 I think I was partly confused by the debian numbers starting from 0 but the ubuntu numbers starting from 1.
[17:39] <dholbach> akk and plod63 ask great questions - basically it boils down to: how do Debian and Ubuntu collaborate? how is code shoved around?
[17:39] <dholbach> if you have a quick look at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseSchedule you will see how the Ubuntu releases are structured
[17:40] <dholbach> basically every 6 months we start working on a new release, the most important packages are uploaded first that form the build-chain (compilers, linker, etc.)
[17:41] <dholbach> then "we open the gates" and "sync" source packages from Debian
[17:41] <dholbach> this means that for every unmodified Ubuntu package we import the new Debian package and automatically build it
[17:41] <dholbach> an example:
[17:42] <dholbach> let's say we have gedit 2.3-1 in Ubuntu in the old release
[17:42] <dholbach> (2.3 released upstream, first revision in debian, no ubuntu changes)
[17:42] <dholbach> once we opened the new release, there' 2.4-3 available in Debian now
[17:42] <dholbach> (2.4 released upstream, 3 revisions in Debian)
[17:42] <dholbach> then the source of 2.4-3 will be imported and automatically built for us
[17:43] <dholbach> this happens until DebianImportFreeze (look at the schedule), from there on "syncs" need to be excplicitly requested
[17:43] <dholbach> here's another example:
[17:44] <dholbach> we have gnome-terminal 2.5-6ubuntu2 in Ubuntu and in Debian we have 2.7-3 now
[17:44] <dholbach> in that case, because we have Ubuntu modifications, the source will not be automatically overwritten
[17:45] <dholbach> we either need to merge changes (make sure our and Ubuntu and Debian changes are still in the new version - this would be 2.7-3ubuntu1 ok?) or decide we drop our changes and import 2.7-3 from Debian
[17:45] <ClassBot> plod63 asked: so this building happens until the freeze automatically?
[17:47] <dholbach> plod63: building almost always happens automatically (not when we're in pre-release freezes), here it's the import (of unmodified packages) that is automatic
[17:47] <dholbach> so you can imagine that the first part of the release cycle is all about merging/syncing changes in
[17:48] <dholbach> and that's usually a good opportunity to go through the list of our patches and decide if they're still worth it and make sure that they get forwarded to either Debian or upstream
[17:48] <dholbach> sometimes we decide to carry our own patches, even if Debian or upstream don't like them, but we want good reasons for that
[17:49] <dholbach> in all the other cases we forward those patches
[17:49] <dholbach> I hope with that information the pieces now fit a bit together :)
[17:49] <dholbach> ok, let's crack on: while we have a look at the rest of the package, please open another terminal and run the following
[17:50] <dholbach>   sudo pbuilder build hello-debhelper_*.dsc
[17:50] <dholbach> so we get at least one build done today :)
[17:50] <ClassBot> deuxpi asked: how does or coordinates the merge/sync process?
[17:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:51] <dholbach> deuxpi: all developers - usually the most important packages are merged / synced / uploaded first
[17:51] <dholbach> http://merges.ubuntu.com lists packages that need a merge
[17:51] <dholbach> usually the last uploader is expected to do the merge again, but if you have a quick word with them and say that you are going to do it, that's totally fine
[17:51] <dholbach> just important to not duplicate work
[17:52] <dholbach> now let's check out debian/copyright
[17:52] <dholbach> debian/copyright usually lists:
[17:52] <dholbach>  - where the source was obtained form
[17:52] <dholbach>  - who has a copyright on the code
[17:52] <dholbach>  - which license the code is under
[17:52] <dholbach>  - who packaged it
[17:53] <dholbach> it's incredibly important to get this right
[17:53] <dholbach> you don't want code with an un-free license in your package or code that you are not allowed to modify, etc.
[17:54] <dholbach> if packages like that get into the archive, Ubuntu as a project would get into a lot of trouble
[17:54] <dholbach> luckily there's YOU who can make sure that all pieces of code are free and under a good license :)
[17:54] <dholbach> and luckily there's archive admins who double-check
[17:54] <dholbach> lastly, there's debian/rules
[17:55] <dholbach> beside having a quite funny name this file is one of the heart pieces of the source package also
[17:55] <dholbach> because it determines how the package it built
[17:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[17:56] <dholbach> those of your who have looked at Makefiles before will notice that it's a Makefile too
[17:56] <dholbach> it's split up into sections such as clean, build, install, etc.
[17:56] <dholbach> so what you do when you run "./configure && make" or "make clean", "sudo make install", etc. is run here too
[17:57] <dholbach> but run in a sane way, so you don't have millions of files written on your system :)
[17:57] <dholbach> you can also see all the dh_* calls in there, that's debhelper I was referring to the whole time - extremely useful packaging tools
[17:58] <dholbach> I couldn't have done packaging as a whole complete justice in these two sessions and you now only have a very quick overview of debian/rules
[17:58] <dholbach> I encourage you to read the source of other source packages and check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide too
[17:58] <dholbach> your package should have built by now and lie in /var/cache/pbuilder/result/ :)
[17:59] <dholbach> I hope to see you in #ubuntu-packaging and #ubuntu-motu soon
[17:59] <dholbach> go and bookmark https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[17:59] <dholbach> ROCK ON EVERYBODY and thanks for listening!
[18:00] <dholbach> next up is bencrisford with "Gaming on Ubuntu"!
[18:01] <ClassBot> Slides for Gaming on Ubuntu: http://people.ubuntu.com/~nhandler/slides/openweeklucid/GamingOnUbuntu.pdf
[18:01] <bencrisford> Hello everybody!
[18:02] <bencrisford> Well, this session is gonna be about Gaming with Ubuntu
[18:02] <bencrisford> structure-wise, I am sorting this session into 3 main parts
[18:02] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 1]
[18:03] <bencrisford> after a quick introduction, I will briefly talk about emulation, free games, and finally - what OW is all about - community
[18:03] <bencrisford> at the end of each session I will do a quick Q+A, so please save your questions for then :)
[18:04] <bencrisford> right, so lets get started :D
[18:04] <bencrisford> First - let me make something clear, Ubuntu wasn't designed for games, and most games werent designed for ubuntu, so it was never going to be easy
[18:04] <bencrisford> But for years now linux gamers have had to work around the problems faced, and have come up with many solutions that can be used.
[18:05] <bencrisford> Hopefully from this session you can learn about them, and learn to contribute to them
[18:05] <bencrisford> I have prepared alot of stuff to talk about :), so I think we'll move swiftly on to section 1 (unless there are any questions)
[18:06] <bencrisford> you can ask a question by putting a great big QUESTION: in front of it (jn #ubuntu-classroom-chat)
[18:06] <bencrisford> I take it that means I can move on...
[18:06] <bencrisford> so, Section 1 - Emulation
[18:06] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 2]
[18:07] <bencrisford> the unfortunate truth is that most games are developed for windows or mac
[18:07] <bencrisford> because that is where around 90% of the market share lies
[18:07] <bencrisford> (commercial games*)
[18:07] <bencrisford> In my experience as an ubuntu advocate, that can stop alot of people from changing OSes completely
[18:08] <bencrisford> what these people dont realise, is that softwares exist that allow you to run windows software with an "emulator" under linux (of which Ubuntu is a distribution)
[18:08] <bencrisford> there is a mistake in the slides - before anyone points it out :P
[18:09] <bencrisford> Wine is not *technically* an emulator
[18:09] <bencrisford> but we wont go in to the details of that :)
[18:10] <bencrisford> I'm going to keep this section short, because Wine was already covered in an earlier session by YoKoZaR
[18:10] <bencrisford> the logs are available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekLucid
[18:10] <bencrisford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekLucid/WineQA - or even - there :)
[18:11] <bencrisford> in this session, I am going to talk about playonlinux (PoL)
[18:12] <bencrisford> (available in the Ubuntu Software Centre in Ubuntu 10.04)
[18:12] <bencrisford> Which is a front-end for Wine that lets you easily install windows games and softwares on Linux, whereas often you need to fiddle about quite alot to get applications to work with Wine (I never said it was perfect!).
[18:12] <bencrisford> PoL (PlayOnLinux) comes with a wide range of scripts which can install applications and games with the click of a button.
[18:13] <bencrisford> contributing scripts to PlayOnLinux is a great way to contribute, which I will hopefully cover more in my "Community" section later on
[18:13] <bencrisford> Installing PoL, installs Wine.  So I like installing PoL instead because it provides me with both a graphical front-end and Wine itself.
[18:13] <bencrisford> However, if you are after the most up to date versions of wine, or beta versions etc, this probably isn't the way to go.  I'm not sure if the latest version of Wine is included in PoL, so if it is imperative that you have it, its probably best getting it from http://www.winehq.org/download/deb
[18:14] <bencrisford> Anyway, thats about it for emulators!  I said it would be short!
[18:14] <bencrisford> (even though as rafalcieslak pointed out - wine is not an emulator :D)
[18:15] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 3]
[18:15] <bencrisford> slide 3 shows a screenshot of playonlinux
[18:15] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 4]
[18:15] <bencrisford> time for some questions :)
[18:17] <bencrisford> Well, there doesn't seem to be any more questions
[18:17] <bencrisford> that either means that I have explained everything exceptionally, or I am talking to myself :)  its probably the latter ;)
[18:18] <bencrisford> well, if there is no more questions
[18:18] <bencrisford> I am anxious to move on to Free games, so we get plenty of time for Community stuff, which is what OW is about :)
[18:18] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 5]
[18:19] <bencrisford> For those of you that might not have heard the word "FOSS" before, it stands for "Free and Open Source Software" and it is what many people call software which is basically freely available and editable to anyone.
[18:19] <bencrisford> A good example of free games are the games in your "Games" menu when you install Ubuntu, and there are 488 available in the software centre in Ubuntu 10.04.
[18:20] <bencrisford> One of my favourite free games at the moment is "Yo Frankie!" it is based off the film "Big Buck Bunny" (which I am sure many of you will have seen) and was made entirely with free software by the blender institute.  Its good fun, and it is in the Ubuntu repos.
[18:21] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 6]
[18:21] <bencrisford> there is a screenshot of the game :)
[18:21] <bencrisford> the picture quality was lost a bit when I exported the presentation to PDF
[18:21] <bencrisford> but the graphics are pretty awesome ;)
[18:22] <ClassBot> sebsebseb asked: POL is like a free Crossover Games or Cedega?  I have known about it for quite a while, but I don't remember ever having it installed.  Also I assume that POL and Wine can both be installed on a system without causing issues with each other.  Just like Wine or Cedega/Crossover could both be installe on the same system without conflickting with each other.
[18:22] <bencrisford> sebsebseb: I'm pretty sure they will install along side each other OK
[18:23] <bencrisford> that is something I will check for you in a minute ;), i'll PM you at the end of the session if not before :)
[18:23] <bencrisford> PoL is basically an alternative to just installing wine, and it comes with a more user friendly gui
[18:23] <bencrisford> and the games that are supported with scripts are much easier to set up
[18:24] <ClassBot> Chopsticks asked: Is there a way to fix bugs on games without having to report them to the people to made it?
[18:24] <bencrisford> Well, if you hack (edit the code) of an open source game, you don't have to tell the upstream (original) developers about it....
[18:24] <bencrisford> but if there is a bug
[18:24] <bencrisford> its best to let them no
[18:24] <bencrisford> know*
[18:25] <bencrisford> unless its a bug unique to your machine/operating-system
[18:25] <bencrisford> I think that is what you meant when you asked?  if not, ask again in chat :)
[18:25] <ClassBot> rafalcieslak asked: when it comes to Yo Frankie: what makes it MUCH slower than other games? My computer has a quite nice hardware, and is capable of running lots of awesome games with amazing graphics, but I could never manage to run Yo Frankie smoothly... I get about 8 FPS even in low-datail mode, and I doubt it's my hadrware fault: so I am simply interested in what makes this game different to others, that is much slower? Does
[18:27] <bencrisford> rafalcieslak: Well, I couldn't tell you that, because I don't know :P.  the developers created the engine, and it is blender's first game
[18:27] <bencrisford> so..
[18:27] <bencrisford> I won't try and answer, because I don't know enough about the project :)
[18:27] <bencrisford> so.. lets move on :)
[18:28] <bencrisford> If you are after educational games
[18:28] <bencrisford> then Ubuntu supports this well :)
[18:28] <bencrisford> and many are available in the software centre
[18:29] <bencrisford> but if you are only after educational games (and other packages) they ship with "Edubuntu" Ubuntu's educational derivative.  There are games for young children there but also for slightly older kids
[18:30] <bencrisford> or there is Qimo, which is an Ubuntu based system, which ships games for young children such as gcompris and childsplay
[18:30] <bencrisford> http://qimo4kids.com/
[18:30] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 7]
[18:31] <bencrisford> time for some questions again :)
[18:31] <ClassBot> Chopsticks asked: How do you fix bugs if you know that it's something wrong with your machine/operating-system? Because I know someone who has the same game and it works on their machine fine but it's a different computer and operating system.
[18:32] <bencrisford> Chopsticks: if your friend uses a different operating system, then the actual code and packaging is likely to be very different across different OS versions (unless you are emulating ?)
[18:32] <bencrisford> the windows/mac and the linux versions will probably have different bug trackers
[18:33] <bencrisford> and certainly different bugs
[18:33] <bencrisford> when I said if it is specific to your operating system:
[18:33] <bencrisford> I meant that if the game was say developed for linux, and the problem only existed in a particular distribution like ubuntu
[18:34] <bencrisford> sorry if I wasn't clear
[18:34] <bencrisford> Ah, if you are emulating, then you can get all sorts of problems L.
[18:34] <bencrisford> :/*
[18:34] <bencrisford> wine really isn't perfect
[18:34] <bencrisford> not all games will work
[18:34] <bencrisford> and alot can be buggy and not great
[18:34] <bencrisford> (under an emulator)
[18:37] <ClassBot> ExceptionIO asked: Have you heard of The Humble Indie Bundle aka Pay what you want ? http://www.wolfire.com/humble . What to you think of this method "Pay What You Want". You get 5 games at a lower cost and by this way you support either some charities/developers  ?
[18:37] <bencrisford> ExceptionIO: I haven't actually come across that website before
[18:37] <bencrisford> but it does look like a pretty neat idea
[18:38] <bencrisford> it still means its not free software, but its definately a step closer
[18:38] <bencrisford> and if the money is going to charity - great
[18:38] <bencrisford> but thats my personal view...
[18:39] <bencrisford> Anyway, time to move on, because its time for the Community section :D
[18:39] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 8]
[18:40] <bencrisford> OW (OpenWeek - sorry didn't make that clear earlier :S) is all about community and contributing to free software, so it wouldn't be right for me to leave it out of this session
[18:41] <bencrisford> there are teams inside Ubuntu and outside of ubuntu (Upstream) where you can contribute to linux gaming tools/marketing/etc and ultimately help the ubuntu distribution anyway
[18:43] <bencrisford> the most direct and obvious way to contribute to games in ubuntu, is simply packaging
[18:43] <bencrisford> you can develop new games, and fix bugs in games already in ubuntu
[18:44] <bencrisford> in the Ubuntu software centre (Ubuntu 10.04) there are - something like - 488 games available
[18:44] <bencrisford> there are obviously going to be bugs in these, and someone has to sort them out - you know how annoying it is when you encounter a bug - so why cannot the one who sorts them out be you?
[18:46] <bencrisford> launchpad is the bug tracker for ubuntu packages
[18:46] <bencrisford> so that could be a great place to start
[18:46] <bencrisford> to find the bugs in a specific package goto: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-chess
[18:46] <bencrisford> and replace gnome-chess with whatever other package you may want to look aty
[18:46] <bencrisford> at*
[18:47] <bencrisford> (you can use the skills taught by dholbach in the previous session :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekLucid/Development1 (logs arent there *yet*)
[18:48] <bencrisford> If you aren't a technical use though, you can still help our great project, and the games that are included
[18:48] <bencrisford> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam - Ubuntu Gaming Team (a branch of the ubuntu marketing team)
[18:49] <bencrisford> http://wiki.debian.org/Games       - Debian Games Team  (more focused on development/packaging so I understand)
[18:49] <bencrisford> http://playonlinux.com/en/         - PlayOnLinux        (click "I'd like to help Play On Linux" for information on contributing)
[18:49] <bencrisford> http://www.winehq.org/contributing - WineHQ             (information on contributing to the Wine project)
[18:49] <bencrisford> and for educational games -> edubuntu (ubuntu's educational derrivative) :)
[18:50] <bencrisford> you can get started with Edubuntu on #edubuntu (same network, if you are using lernid that is irc.ubuntu.com)
[18:50] <bencrisford> [SLIDE 9]
[18:50] <bencrisford> time for the final Q+A section of this session
[18:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:51] <bencrisford> looks like we might finish a little early...
[18:51] <ClassBot> Chopsticks asked: When I use POL, if there's a game I want to install, it usually asks for a cd-rom. Since I have a netbook, is there a way I can do that with a USB memory stick?
[18:52] <bencrisford> Chopsticks: when you use PlayOnLinux it wants the official CD, and I don't think you can purchase official USBs of games? (Im putting a question mark because I wouldn't put it past some of these game companies)
[18:53] <bencrisford> if you did have it on USB I assume it would have to be cracked, and that isn't what PoL is about
[18:53] <bencrisford> there might still be some way for PoL to support it
[18:53] <bencrisford> I would suggest asking maybe on the PoL forums :)
[18:53]  * bencrisford finds link
[18:54] <bencrisford> http://www.playonlinux.com/en/forums.html
[18:54] <bencrisford> (18:54:17) komputes: bencrisford: what games do you play on linux? do you recommend certain games that do not have emulation glitches?
[18:55] <bencrisford> in playonlinux I mainly use steam
[18:55] <bencrisford> it installs allright and runs my favourite valve games OK most of the time.. :)
[18:55] <bencrisford> I don't suffer a noticable performance loss - but different hardware = different results :)
[18:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[18:56] <bencrisford> (18:55:04) Miroslav_RS: if you have another PC with CD/DVD-ROM you can make image of CD and mount it on ubuntu...
[18:56] <bencrisford> Chopsticks: ^ yes, that could work :), if you put the image on a USB
[18:57] <bencrisford> i'm not sure though, like I say, the PoL peeps would be better people to ask :)
[19:00] <bencrisford> Ok, my time is up!
[19:00] <bencrisford> I will quickly try and answer the last question in chat
[19:01] <bencrisford> nice talking to you !! :)
[19:01] <jcastro> thanks ben!
[19:01] <jcastro> Ok
[19:01] <jcastro> 2 sessions left!
[19:01] <jcastro> This one is going to be "How to Participate in the Ubuntu Developer Summit"
[19:02] <jcastro> where I will give you all the tips on how to follow along as we forge the Maverick Meerkat
[19:02] <jcastro> ok
[19:02] <jcastro> so first off
[19:02] <jcastro> what is UDS
[19:02] <jcastro> it's the Ubuntu Developer Summit, and like Ubuntu itself it happens every 6 months
[19:02] <jcastro> usually after a release
[19:02] <jcastro> we alternate between europe and north america
[19:02] <jcastro> so this time it's in Brussels, Belgium
[19:03] <jcastro> UDS is a week long and is full of sessions
[19:03] <jcastro> which I will get to in a minute
[19:03] <jcastro> ok, so before UDS actually begin all the teams are busy preparing their blueprints
[19:03] <jcastro> blueprints are how we figure out what will go into maverick
[19:04] <jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-launchpad-upstream-improvements
[19:04] <jcastro> here's an example of a blueprint from last cycle
[19:04] <jcastro> you can subscribe to blueprints to follow along progress along the course of a cycle
[19:04] <jcastro> it will mail you everytime someone updates it
[19:04] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/
[19:04] <jcastro> this is where we keep all the information for UDS.
[19:05] <jcastro> Click on the "Blueprints" link under discuss
[19:05] <jcastro> that will take you here:
[19:05] <jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m
[19:05] <jcastro> this tells you everything that is being considered for discussion at UDS.
[19:05] <jcastro> what I do is open the ones I am interested in in tabs in my browser, and then subscribe to the ones I want to follow along.
[19:05] <jcastro> any questions on blueprints so far?
[19:06] <ClassBot> charlie-tca asked: are there going to be 322 sessions for the 322 blueprints?
[19:06] <jcastro> probably not
[19:06] <jcastro> I'll get to that bit in a second
[19:06] <jcastro> sometimes a session might have multiple blueprints
[19:07] <jcastro> ok so keep that page open
[19:07] <jcastro> now let's see how that maps to sessions
[19:07] <jcastro> go back to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/
[19:07] <jcastro> and click on "Schedule" under "Attend"
[19:07] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/
[19:07] <jcastro> that takes us here
[19:07] <jcastro> this page is also important
[19:07] <jcastro> let's click to see what sessions are on Monday!
[19:07] <jcastro> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/2010-05-10/
[19:08] <jcastro> ok, as you can see here, you should see a big grid o' colors
[19:08] <jcastro> each of those blueprints can be a session (if they're approved)
[19:08] <jcastro> and they're color coded
[19:08] <jcastro> so, orange is desktop, purple is community, brown is foundations, light blue is server, etc.
[19:09] <jcastro> each of these sessions corresponds to a blueprint
[19:09] <jcastro> you can check what blueprint it is by clicking on the top left corner of each block (the little paper icons)
[19:09] <jcastro> that takes you to the corresponding blueprint
[19:10] <jcastro> so if you're participating remotely you'll want to note where your favorite blueprints are
[19:10] <jcastro> and then of course do the math on what time it is in your time zone compared to belgium
[19:10] <jcastro> you can use timeanddate.com for that
[19:11] <jcastro> for the keynotes we usually get the video out to the internet as soon as we can
[19:11] <jcastro> so there's nothing really to do there.
[19:11] <jcastro> ok, so now that you've figured out what sessions you want to participate let's get to actually participating in a session
[19:12] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation
[19:12] <jcastro> now
[19:12] <jcastro> if you saw on the grid, on the top there was a list of rooms
[19:12] <jcastro> these have odd names
[19:12] <jcastro> cocobolo, etc.
[19:12] <jcastro> that column corresponds to what room the session will be in
[19:12] <jcastro> and each room has an IRC channel, which is listed on that page
[19:12] <jcastro> in the old days, we stuck all the sessions in the same track in the same room
[19:13] <jcastro> so you could just hang out in the "desktop" channel and follow along
[19:13] <jcastro> now we shuffle tracks and people around
[19:13] <jcastro> so remember that the IRC channels and the icecast streams are based on the ROOM
[19:13] <jcastro> and the schedule tells you what room the session you want is in
[19:13] <jcastro> thanks to the hard work of the IRC team we have a bot that will do the topics in each room
[19:14] <jcastro> so it's similar to this bot
[19:14] <ClassBot> qense asked: Why was decided to move people around? So they breathe fresh air?
[19:14] <jcastro> good question!
[19:14] <jcastro> actually it's to force people to move around and not camp out in their track room
[19:14] <jcastro> this leads to better mingling in the hallways, etc.
[19:14] <jcastro> instead of you sitting in the same room for a week
[19:14] <jcastro> ok
[19:15] <jcastro> so, these IRC channels are the main way to communicate with the session
[19:15] <jcastro> when UDS starts there will be a link to an icecast stream in the schedule and on this page
[19:15] <jcastro> you'll click on it and you'll hear the audio (live!) from the session
[19:15] <jcastro> in the actual room we have 2 projectors
[19:15] <jcastro> one with gobby (which I will get to)
[19:16] <jcastro> and another one with xchat
[19:16] <jcastro> people in the room will see the irc channel
[19:16] <jcastro> so you can basically "chat" to people in the room
[19:16] <jcastro> and they will just talk back to you, and you'll hear it over the icecast stream
[19:16] <jcastro> each room's irc client will be set to highlight the room
[19:16] <jcastro> so you'll talk like this in the channel:
[19:17] <jcastro> ubuntu-uds-amarente: Hey, what's up with windicators?
[19:17] <jcastro> and everyone in that room will see it highlighted in IRC on the projector, along with a notification bubble
[19:17] <jcastro> you'll find that it's quite easy to participate in this manner
[19:17] <jcastro> most sessions will have people paying attention to the IRC channel
[19:17] <jcastro> any questions on the IRC and icecast?
[19:18] <jcastro> the bot will put the session in the topic, so hopefully you won't be asking kernel questions when there's a design topic scheduled or something, heh
[19:18] <jcastro> ok
[19:19] <jcastro> the other piece of the live session is the gobby document
[19:19] <jcastro> gobby is a multiuser text editor that we use to take notes during the session
[19:19] <jcastro> think of it like gedit and xchat mushed together
[19:19] <jcastro> you need to install gobby
[19:19] <jcastro> and then in the document list the document will be named after the session
[19:20] <jcastro> so if you're in desktop-m-monoflamewar, the document and blueprint will all share that name
[19:20] <jcastro> when you open the document in gobby you'll notice people typing in real time to take notes.
[19:20] <jcastro> I find that keeping an eye on a gobby document during the session helps me keep track of what people are talking about
[19:21] <ClassBot> charlie-tca asked: do we need to type in the room name, or is that automatic when we hit send?
[19:21] <jcastro> you will be in the channel for that room
[19:21] <jcastro> however the xchat username will be the roomname, so it's probably best to type out the name so it's highlighted on the screen
[19:21] <jcastro> however most people running a session do a good job of monitoring IRC
[19:22] <jcastro> so that someone will type on the screen and you'll hear someone in the room right away go "Yes charlie, I agree with you!" or whatever
[19:23] <jcastro> the only annoying part I have found is having to switch your audio client to a new icecast url after every session
[19:23] <jcastro> however when they're set up they'll be linked from the schedule and this wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/RemoteParticipation
[19:24] <jcastro> usually what I do is set my IRC client to autojoin all those rooms
[19:24] <jcastro> and then log them all
[19:24] <jcastro> so I can peruse the conversations later when I have more time
[19:24] <jcastro> any more questions on that?
[19:25] <jcastro> ok moving on
[19:25] <jcastro> ok so you'll attend each session you care about
[19:25] <jcastro> and during the session you'll see people make TODO items out of things
[19:26] <jcastro> let me find an example
[19:26] <jcastro> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-new-firefox-support-model
[19:26] <jcastro> ok so here's one from last time
[19:26] <jcastro> during the session people will be assigned things
[19:26] <jcastro> or volunteer for things
[19:27] <jcastro> this is where you see the task assignment
[19:27] <jcastro> it's the person's name, the task, and then the status
[19:27] <jcastro> so ...
[19:27] <jcastro> [jorge] Let's frobnicate the doohicky: TODO
[19:27] <jcastro> or DONE, or INPROGRESS
[19:27] <jcastro> for each blueprint each person will take what they need to do and break it up into tasks
[19:27] <jcastro> [chrisccoulson] identify extensions to be kept in archive - binary components or importance can qualify an extension: DONE
[19:27] <jcastro> for example
[19:28] <jcastro> now, remember at the beginning I said that you should subscribe to blueprints you are interested in?
[19:28] <jcastro> as the cycle progresses and people do these tasks, launchpad will send you a mail
[19:28] <jcastro> that gives you a good idea on how that spec is progressing
[19:29] <jcastro> and what we do is take all those tasks and keep track of them all
[19:29] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/FeatureStatus
[19:29] <jcastro> currently the graphs are zeroed out
[19:29] <jcastro> but this is how you keep track of how we're looking for a release
[19:30] <jcastro> http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/04/23/lucid-community-team-review/
[19:30] <jcastro> here's a blog post on how we did it for our team this cycle
[19:30] <jcastro> but it applies to every team
[19:31] <jcastro> so, I encourage you to subscribe to things you want to keep track of
[19:31] <jcastro> and make a little filter in your email for launchpad blueprints
[19:31] <jcastro> ok, so other tidbots
[19:31] <jcastro> tidbits even. :D
[19:31] <jcastro> http://ubottu.com/uds-logs/
[19:31] <jcastro> here's the list of IRC logs per room
[19:31] <jcastro> which can come in handy if you miss a session
[19:32] <jcastro> any  more questions?
[19:33] <ClassBot> nealmcb asked: What about before the session?  Many/most blueprints don't have an associated wiki page (yet?) and a short paragraph doesn't do much to help people come prepared for a good discussion.  Can you encourage folks to put up more complete descriptions on the wiki?
[19:33] <jcastro> yes
[19:33] <jcastro> actually if it's blank it means the person is slacking *cough*
[19:33] <jcastro> or they just plan to open the page in gobby at the session and do it as part of the session
[19:34] <jcastro> we usually have a flickr feed of people taking photos during UDS
[19:34] <jcastro> http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=all&q=udslucid&m=tags
[19:34] <jcastro> if you are interested in following that, it'll probably be udsmaverick
[19:34] <jcastro> same for twitter and identi.ca
[19:35] <jcastro> this is where you can find funny things like mark with a funny hat: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413078@N02/4127083362/
[19:36] <jcastro> http://www.flickr.com/photos/8413078@N02/4127063712/
[19:36] <jcastro> here is a picture of how the projectors are setup
[19:36] <jcastro> as you can see there, gobby on the right, and on the left is the irc client
[19:37] <jcastro> one thing to also remember is that the sessions are very fluid
[19:37] <jcastro> and might spawn other sessions
[19:37] <jcastro> so if you're in a session and people decide that it needs more discussion they might schedule another session for later in the week
[19:38] <jcastro> so it's important that you refresh the schedule often
[19:38] <jcastro> and watch it for changes
[19:38] <jcastro> certain sessions need to be on certain days based on when certain people are attending
[19:39] <jcastro> any more questions?
[19:39] <jcastro> that's basically it really, the hard part is the math for the timezones. :D
[19:39] <jcastro> oh
[19:40] <jcastro> I also forgot to mention
[19:40] <jcastro> on http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-m/
[19:40] <jcastro> we talked about the per day view
[19:40] <jcastro> but on there you can also see per room
[19:40] <jcastro> and per /track/
[19:40] <jcastro> so if you only care about server things for example you can just watch the one page
[19:41] <jcastro> wow so looks like I finished early
[19:41] <jcastro> let's chill for ~20 and then we can get your feedback!
[19:41] <jcastro> smoke if you got em!
[19:41] <jcastro> (that means you can talk in here and relax!)
[19:42] <charlie-tca> So, can we both listen and talk on IRC there?
[19:42] <jcastro> yeah
[19:42] <jcastro> they will talk to the microphones
[19:42] <jcastro> and you'll just type in the channel
[19:43] <sebsebseb> So when a session is going on in IRC,  how wil it work exactly,  just ask questions, and someone will say what's going on?
[19:43] <jcastro> someone will be leading the session
[19:43] <jcastro> and they'll have an agenda or whatever
[19:43] <jcastro> that they'll have on the gobby document
[19:43] <sebsebseb> So that's what the live stream thing is about?
[19:43] <jcastro> or they might just have a brainstorming sessions
[19:43] <sebsebseb> To listen to the session
[19:43] <charlie-tca> this is easier than the last two I tried to follow remotely
[19:43] <jcastro> the stream is for you to listen in
[19:44] <sebsebseb> and for the people there to watch the IRC channel?
[19:44] <jcastro> charlie-tca: this is the same as last time, that's when we figured out that you can basically talk into the icecast stream and it worked awesome
[19:44] <jcastro> we used to have a dial in thing and that kind of sucked
[19:44] <jcastro> sebsebseb: yes
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Yeah, but it was thursday before I got the time right last time
[19:44] <jcastro> heh
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Kind of disappointing, that was.
[19:46] <jcastro> it was tough to schedule last time. I was in EST, UDS was CST, the scheduler was in UTC.
[19:46] <akgraner> jcastro, remote participation has gotten so much better for remote participants - the session leads are now very aware of those on IRC and actually engage them
[19:47] <jcastro> yeah
[19:47] <qense> As long as you respect the flow of the conversation in the room you can really contribute to the discussion remotely.
[19:47] <jcastro> before we had people watching IRC on their laptops
[19:47] <jcastro> which was not ideal
[19:47] <jcastro> but now it's on a big screen so no one can miss it
[19:47] <akgraner> last year this time the community and kernel teams paid attention to IRC but not the other teams - now they all pay attention - it is great!  Thank you for working to bring about that change
[19:47] <nealmcb> I remember being remote back in sevilla in 2007, in the days of VOIP - lots better now :)
[19:48] <jcastro> nealmcb: yeah the voip thing was pretty crap
[19:48] <nealmcb> QUESTION: How does food work for remote participants?  E.g. zul awarded me a cookie yesterday in class.  How do I pick it up?  I know UDS food is the best :)
[19:48] <jcastro> hah
[19:50] <qense> We're working on implementing COOKIE support in XChat.
[19:50] <jcastro> nealmcb: you'd think zul would just send you some EC2 time
[19:50] <nealmcb> qense: Hmm - will the cookie will come with strings like with http? :)
[19:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:51] <qense> nealmcb: Yes, but you should check if they're safe before consuming them.
[19:51] <jcastro> qense: do they have hockey in belgium?
[19:52] <jcastro> the hotel has TVs, but not sure on the hockey coverage
[19:52] <lucas> why are you asking? were you at the hockey game at dallas?
[19:53] <qense> jcastro: I think football (soccer for the Americans) is more important in Belgium.
[19:53] <qense> almost no one watches hockey here, even in the Netherlands -- although we do often win European, Olympic or World Championships.
[19:53] <qense> jcastro: ow, of course
[19:53] <jcastro> lucas: no. it's just it's the playoffs
[19:53] <qense> you must mean ice hockey
[19:53] <charlie-tca> jcastro: thanks for the great information. I have to feed a hungry boy now
[19:53] <qense> no, that's not very popular in Belgium
[19:53] <jcastro> charlie-tca: cheers!
[19:54] <qense> We can't ice hockey here in the Low Countries :)
[19:55] <qense> jcastro: What network is it on?
[19:55] <jcastro> a bunch
[19:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[19:56] <qense> I think there will be CNN, maybe CNBSC as well.
[19:56] <jcastro> this doesn't bode well
[19:56] <qense> EuroNews, BBC, etc
[19:56] <jcastro> at least you guys have good beer and chocolate!
[19:57] <qense> The Belgians sure have.
[19:58] <jcastro> ok, let's move on to the feedback and q+a
[19:58] <jcastro> we'll leave the channel unmodded
[19:58] <jcastro> so we can just get the direct feedback here
[19:58] <jcastro> what do you all think of the week?
[19:59] <jcastro> akgraner: looks like everyone hated it
[19:59] <qense> akgraner: Restate your previous points made in #ubuntu-community-team!
[19:59] <akgraner> hehe
[19:59] <akgraner> jcastro, did you see those?
[19:59] <hhlp> as usual great work, good speaker, learning a lot :)
[20:00] <akgraner> qense, we already have plans for all those points
[20:00] <qense> already! and the UDS hasn't begun yet!
[20:00] <jcastro> what did you guys think about lernid?
[20:00] <akgraner> qense, yep - jcastro is already on it
[20:01] <akgraner> jcastro, I love lernid and being able to use slides
[20:01] <akgraner> but I was told many people just used a pdf reader and not lernid
[20:01] <jcastro> whoops
[20:02] <vox754> Lernid... seems like a good idea, but why bother if I already have xchat+evince
[20:03] <qense> Connecting to the OpenWeek is easier with Lernid, you don't have to know what IRC channels are and such.
[20:04] <sebsebseb> I haven't used Lemid, but if it is also for UDS,  sorts out the channels automatically and what not,  that would be good.
[20:04] <vox754> By the way, organizers, I sense there is some lack of promotion of the Open Week, and the following UDS
[20:04] <sebsebseb> I mean I know at the moment it's only for Open Week.
[20:04] <sebsebseb> vox754: indeed at lack of promotion
[20:04] <sebsebseb> for Open Week
[20:04] <jcastro> yeah
[20:05] <vox754> I attended one Open Week in 2007 perhaps, it was great. I found it by accident.
[20:05] <kyubutsu> identi.ca has quite a few folk announcing OW
[20:05] <jcastro> attendance is down about 100 people so that makes sense
[20:05] <jcastro> that we need to improve visibility again and market it better
[20:05] <akgraner> +1
[20:06] <akgraner> jcastro, that was the discussion we had early this morning that qense was referencing
[20:06] <vox754> I didn't know back then they were after an Ubuntu release. Everybody knows the Ubuntu release is every 6 months, but mostly are clueless about what comes after. Same with UDS, for me at least.
[20:06] <kyubutsu> i feel comfortable using irssi.. thats why i havent tried lernid
[20:06] <kyubutsu> -_-
[20:06] <jcastro> kyubutsu: yeah I am old school as well
[20:07] <sebsebseb> also akgraner did a really good job at copying in peoples names :) unfortunatly this was not so for jcastro, but nevermind.  Would have been nice to have my name with the question for Mark, about if he is disapointed or not, that more expereinced users are leaving Ubuntu.  Also with names for the questions, people that check out the logs, will know who asked what.
[20:07] <qense> You're still using Lynx as well?
[20:07] <akgraner> basically it's release week--> open week--> uds  back to back
[20:07] <jcastro> sebsebseb: yeah I was using xchat-gnome and it wasn't highlighting the names
[20:08] <vox754> Also, OW is disconcerting. Not many people used OW for Open Week. I was clueless when the games' guy earlier today was talking about OW.
[20:08] <qense> You can copy the names from XChat GNOME.
[20:08] <jcastro> unfortunately it's hard for two people to use the bot at once to automate the questions
[20:08] <kyubutsu> somehow i dont agree more 'experience' users will leave ubuntu because of its current direction
[20:08] <jcastro> qense: I couldn't figure that out
[20:08] <sebsebseb> also I didn't know for a little while that,  my question for Mark had been answered, since I didn't get high lighted as a result, of the name not being copyed in
[20:08] <jcastro> without it highlighting the entire column
[20:08] <qense> jcastro: Just keep selecting up to the naem.
[20:08] <qense> ah
[20:08] <qense> that's possible as well
 without it highlighting the entire
[20:08] <jcastro> ok
[20:08] <jcastro> so chalk that one up to me not being able to use xchat
[20:09] <qense> You're a GUI noob!
[20:09] <jcastro> clearly I need a more advanced linux
[20:10] <akgraner> thats why the NTEU is here :-)
[20:10] <sebsebseb> Wine session was good as I knew it would be.  Design team session I really enjoyed as well.  End of adopt an upstream :)  akgraner's  Ubuntu women session was really good.
 also I didn't know for a little while that,  my question for Mark had been answered, since I didn't get high lighted as a result <---- that also shows a little lack of concentration from your part. Lots of people gey distracted by the random chat going in -chat.
[20:10] <sebsebseb> vox754: heh in a way
[20:10] <kyubutsu> actually, i didnt know what playonlinux was until today
[20:11] <sebsebseb> vox754: true I could have kept my eye on classroom more
[20:11] <kyubutsu> i've only used wine alone
[20:11] <jcastro> I hadn't even heard of playonlinux until today either
[20:11] <kyubutsu> i like the concept.. i'll try it out
[20:12] <vox754> playonlinux seems good. By the way, wine is a dependency, so it's not like it will "conflict", as someone asked earlier today. It's basically a GUI, and a few scripts.
[20:12] <sebsebseb> yes
[20:12] <sebsebseb> the guy was going to pm me back about that
[20:12] <sebsebseb> ,but he didn't
[20:12] <kyubutsu> its good i dont have wine installed at the moment, that way i try his install method too
[20:12] <sebsebseb> anyway I got the answer I was after else where
[20:13] <sebsebseb> it's like synaptic,  a front end. a GUI, but yes it can use different versions of Wine
[20:13] <akgraner> so  - what about the number of sessions
[20:13] <akgraner> session content
[20:13] <akgraner> time zone
[20:14] <JFo> I wasn't burned out by the number
[20:14] <JFo> the content was great
[20:14] <sebsebseb> at first when I saw the scheduled I guess I was a bit disapointed
[20:14] <sebsebseb> since not as much this time
[20:14] <jcastro> we had too many last time, it was brutal
[20:14] <akgraner> any suggestions on how to gather ideas for session from community?
[20:14] <jcastro> unless we get more people signing up to teach more classes
[20:14] <JFo> jcastro, double +1 on the too many
[20:14] <akgraner> jcastro, +1 I was fried after the karmic open week
[20:14] <sebsebseb> however it's still been good, and also like the other two that I took part in,  a few  sessions that  I wasn't really interested in, or weren't really for me, but that's expected.  That will happen with the 10.10 open week as well probably.
[20:15] <vox754> The session number was okay, not tiring at all, but not much excitement was created as the last time I joined one of this. Actually, the first one in 2007, I outright skipped a few classes that week.
[20:15] <JFo> i slept all that weekend
[20:15] <kyubutsu> number of sessions -->  +1
[20:15] <sebsebseb> Can do other things when there's a session not really interested in of course
[20:15] <yofel_> content was great, and yes, this open week felt better than the last, as for the time zone: I live in germany (currently utc+2) so it was optimal
[20:16] <sebsebseb> a bit disapointed when I first saw the scheduled, more like I was disapointed, but saw it would still be a good open week
[20:16] <jcastro> what was missing you think?
[20:16] <akgraner> jcastro, question stealer
[20:16] <akgraner> :-P
[20:16] <charlie-tca> It was very centered on Ubuntu, missing Kubuntu and Xubuntu this time
[20:17] <yofel> right
[20:17] <jcastro> yeah we need to do better at chasing down derivatives
[20:17] <akgraner> the oversight on the kubuntu sessions were my fault
[20:17] <vox754> Q+A are great for the community. But the speakers need to have something prepared in case there are few questions like this time.
[20:17] <yofel> actually, Lubuntu will be official for 10.10 right? or will that be decided next week?
[20:17] <sebsebseb> open week starts, an hour later for me in,  May,  and then an hour earlier in November.  I like how for the Spring one it's an hour earlier,  and no I am not saying to change the time.
[20:17] <akgraner> 2 sessions were suggested and I missed adding them somehow
[20:17] <yofel> would be nice to have a session for that
[20:17] <sebsebseb> yes since summer time I mean
[20:18] <charlie-tca> Maybe a day just for derivatives to have an hour each would be an idea?
[20:18] <jcastro> charlie-tca: that is an excellent idea
[20:18] <jcastro> oh, this reminds me
[20:18] <jcastro> that this channel is available year round!
[20:18] <kyubutsu> it would have been nice to have had that development class using byobu
[20:18] <jcastro> so if teams want to have their own weeks or days, they're more than welcome
[20:18] <akgraner> yofel, agreed it's on my check for maverick open week to to email the those list specifically
[20:19] <sebsebseb> akgraner: oh no Kubuntu sessions ah yes,  could have been good, since loads of people seem to think Canonical don't really care much about Kubuntu
[20:19] <yofel> akgraner: :)
[20:19] <vox754> charlie-tca, yofel, jcastro I don't see a big difference between the main Ubuntu, and the derivatives, really. Unless the speakers can stress the differences in a good way, I don't see a point.
[20:20] <charlie-tca> I use both Ubuntu and Xubuntu. there is quite a bit of difference now
[20:20] <yofel> vox754: it's mostly the gui, but that's why we  don't need many seperate sessions, most of it is identical
[20:20] <jcastro> vox754: well, for them it's an opportunity to get people interested in their project
[20:20] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: Lubuntu :)
[20:20] <jcastro> so you can say "hey I don't know jack about xubuntu but I want to help"
[20:20] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: not offical yet, it's in the repo
[20:21] <charlie-tca> yeah, I haven't tried lubuntu
[20:21] <sebsebseb> by 10.10 it will be offical from what I was reading before, like Kubuntu and Xubuntu
[20:21] <jcastro> vox754: openweek is in some ways a recruiting tool for teams in ubuntu to find new volunteers
[20:21] <vox754> When I joined talks on Kubuntu they are all like "KDE is gonna take over the world, you'll see, wow!" But not much afterwards.
[20:21] <yofel> lxde is quite nice for a lightweight DE, haven't used it much yet though
[20:21]  * kyubutsu huggles gnome.. feeds it some kde's
[20:22] <akgraner> would anyone actually take the time to fill out a survey if there was one linked to the wiki page?
[20:22] <akgraner> a survey for feedback on open week
[20:23] <yofel> KDE is usually more like: make an app as feature rich as possible, where gnome focuses (too much IMHO) on simplicity - one app per task
[20:23] <kyubutsu> YESH!!
[20:23] <kyubutsu> -_-
[20:24] <yofel> nice to see for  K3B <-> brasero and sound-juicer
[20:24] <charlie-tca> Does anyone besides myself read the wiki page more than once?
[20:24] <yofel> akgraner: why not? if it doesn't take too long it would be an easy way
[20:24] <kyubutsu> i like gwenview tho.. there are a few qt apps i really like.. just not enough for me to go KDE
[20:25] <vox754> akgraner, I think having this feedback session in the schedule is a great idea, and it's sufficient for my needs. I don't know if others prefer to use the wiki more.
[20:25] <akgraner> yofel, noted
[20:25] <akgraner> vox754, agreed  - everyone has different levels of comfort for offering feedback
[20:25] <akgraner> so I understand
[20:26] <yofel> charlie-tca: erm... the derivatives page doesn't tell you much...
[20:26] <charlie-tca> I know
[20:26] <kyubutsu> it should be there in the wiki regardless.. unless you like coming up with percentages of possible visitors vs adding that couple of lines of code in the page
[20:27] <kyubutsu> i prefer the after class review idea .. but why not use both
[20:28] <kyubutsu> am talking about coverage ..
[20:29] <akgraner> kyubutsu, just gathering feedbach
[20:29] <sebsebseb> charlie-tca: Lubuntu is rather nice indeed
[20:29] <akgraner> taking all the comments in at the moment
[20:30] <akgraner> was the open week pdf booklet of value to any one ?
[20:30] <akgraner> it's a ton of work and if no one is using it
[20:30] <vox754> Hahaha... let me see that, I saw the link but never clicked on it.
[20:31] <charlie-tca> yofel: the problem with that page is it is canonical and way out of date. The image is from jaunty? maybe.
[20:32] <kyubutsu> ):  well.. i.. didnt look at it either.. i was glued to the channel so i didnt have a 'need', therefore demand equaled zero..
[20:32]  * yofel didn't look at it either
[20:32] <Odd-rationale> The PDF booklet looked good!
[20:32] <charlie-tca> huh? pdf booklet?
[20:32] <yofel> http://frylock.redvoodoo.org/~akgraner/UOW-Lucid-Booklet.pdf
[20:32] <kyubutsu> that doesnt mean it was/wasnt a bad product or idea.. just no traffic .. which kind of sucks
[20:33] <akgraner> yofel, oh crap I forgot to add the ubuntu one link to it
[20:33] <akgraner> hehe
[20:33] <akgraner> I may have moved it from my server now
[20:33] <yofel> it's still there
[20:34] <akgraner> whew
[20:34] <Odd-rationale> it's on the ubuntu wiki
[20:34] <yofel> looking at it now it's quite nice, but renders incredibly slow in okular on my eeePC (~5s to open a page)...
[20:34] <akgraner> no I meant the link is where I had it originally
[20:34] <akgraner> and then I stuck it in my files on ubuntu one
[20:35] <vox754> The booklet is fine. "i was glued to the channel so i didnt have a 'need',"  <--- yea pretty much the same idea.
[20:35] <akgraner> and you can share files publicly and I forget to switch out the links - I wanted to showcase Ubuntu One feature :-)
[20:36] <akgraner> yeah - but you all sorta confirmed it's not used :-0
[20:36] <akgraner> :-)
[20:36] <sebsebseb> akgraner: oh when I tried to download just before Open Week,  it downloaded the old one,  as for the new one i'll still download it and check it out
[20:37] <sebsebseb> akgraner: I mean the one with the scheduled and some info about the people doing Open Week
[20:37] <akgraner> sebsebseb, I can't make the booklet until we lock in all the speakers
[20:37] <akgraner> so this time I created a speaker wiki page
[20:37] <akgraner> I think that was easier for most people
[20:38] <akgraner> and I could add content about the speakers and their sessions easier
[20:38] <akgraner> did anyone look at that page to see or find out more about the sessions or speakers
[20:38] <nealmcb> lernid wasn't a fit for me.  not much control over the browsing, too crowded, couldn't click on urls in the session, some confusing controls (right arrow for enter?), a memory hog (including adding firefox to my chrome desktop), etc  irssi+chrome works better for me.  but nice to have notifications about the schedule - I should figure out how to get some other client to do that.  and irssi could probably auto-load urls
[20:39] <kyubutsu> that's my formula.. irssi/chromium
[20:40] <akgraner> nealmcb, I believe classbot also gives notifications for sessions as well - nhandler pleia2 cjohnston it is classbot or lernid that does that
[20:40] <kyubutsu> classbot +1
[20:41] <vox754> I kinda felt disappointed that the talks were not "clickable", that is, that they didn't point directly to their log, But just a minor complain really. The link to the logs is right there.
[20:41] <akgraner> vox
[20:41] <pleia2> classroom has identica and twitter feeds, as well as an ical all linked on wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom
[20:41] <akgraner> vox754, we needed to see if it would interfer with lernid - and we found out it wouldn't
[20:41] <akgraner> so they will go back to being linked in the table on the wiki page
[20:42] <pleia2> classbot itself just does the two "session 5/10 minutes left" notices, and changes the topic for new sessions, no real advance warning
[20:42] <vox754> ClassBot, you are great sir.
[20:42] <akgraner> so lernid is what makes the notifier on the desktop tell you then?
[20:42] <pleia2> akgraner: yep
[20:43] <akgraner> we did more team Q&A's this time
[20:43] <akgraner> how were those
[20:43] <akgraner> (for those who attended)
[20:44] <vox754> The byobu talk was great. I only have one computer, so I've never needed to setup screen, ssh, or anything like that. It's nice to see what's on other peoples computers.
[20:44] <sebsebseb> akgraner: I am not that keen on the colour theme, but other then that, nice booklet by the looks of it.
[20:45] <kyubutsu> byobu was cool [for me] 'cause it was very 'hands on'.. cant get any better
[20:45] <sebsebseb> kyubutsu: byobu  I don't really understand those sessions
[20:46] <sebsebseb> security session I didn't understand much of either
[20:46] <akgraner> kirkland 's sessions are really well put together, but typically pretty technical at times
[20:46] <yofel> yep, byobu was great, I found the developer session today nice too, but dholbach would need more time it seems :P
[20:46] <kyubutsu> i liked those two sessions   /shrugs
[20:46] <vox754> I'll repeat myself, Q+A are great. But the speakers need to have something prepared in case there are few questions like this time. I think even a having a monologue with oneself is useful. Heh.
[20:47] <akgraner> should we identify those "technical"sessions better
[20:47]  * kyubutsu agrees with vox754
[20:47] <yofel> sebsebseb: understand as in: you didn't get what was said or why we had them?
[20:47] <akgraner> we can make suggestions :-)
[20:47] <sebsebseb> yofel: I don't really know what byobu is
[20:47] <sebsebseb> I mean I know it's some sort of app for screen
[20:47] <sebsebseb> ,but I use neither at the moment
[20:48] <vox754> The security session was kinda complicated for those that didn't know what a compiler, or debugger was. A little intro would be okay.
[20:48] <kyubutsu> i dont quite like q&A all that much.. i prefer the presentation approach and THEN have a q&a
[20:48] <sebsebseb> well I know what a compilar and debugger are
[20:48] <yofel> ah, well, it might have been nice to have a few more use examples
[20:48] <sebsebseb> I think.  compiler  makes the program out of the source code
[20:48]  * yofel uses screen locally too so an apt process doesn't depend on X
[20:48] <sebsebseb> debugger goes through it checking for bugs?  and pointing them out?
[20:48] <kyubutsu> even if it's 10 minute presentation and 50 of q+a
[20:48] <sebsebseb> points them out
[20:49] <vox754> sebsebseb, if you "think" you know, then you don't know... heh
[20:49] <sebsebseb> vox754: easy enough to find out,  plus I thought I sort of knew
[20:49] <akgraner> ok feedback on the overall  - open week
[20:50] <vox754> kyubutsu, 10 min presentation and 50 q+a is basically the same as Q+A only
[20:50] <akgraner> any thing else
[20:50] <akgraner> I have 1) better promotion
[20:50] <akgraner> 2) more *buntu session
[20:50] <ClassBot> There are are 10 minutes remaining in the current session.
[20:51] <akgraner> 3) surveys
[20:51] <sebsebseb> oh surveys
[20:51] <sebsebseb> what we thought of Open Week?
[20:51] <sebsebseb> answer some questions
[20:51] <sebsebseb> ?
[20:51] <kyubutsu> vox754: to an extent, yes, practically .. but, my point is, i rather lay out the canvas in a categoric manner as fuel for the rest of the possible questions
[20:51] <akgraner> 4)suggest Q&A sessions have some content perpared as well
[20:52] <vox754> Overall okay. I just would like to see more people getting excited, not sebsebseb-like excited because that would shut down freenode. But still.
[20:52] <akgraner> 5) lernid worked great for some not some much for others
[20:52] <akgraner> 6) classbot was a hit
[20:52] <vox754> I love Classbot
[20:52] <sebsebseb> vox754: you mean yourself excited,  since that would get everyone banned from the channel
[20:52] <sebsebseb> well nearly everyone
[20:52] <akgraner> 7) booklet was not really used
[20:53] <vox754> sebsebseb, buddy that's private man!
[20:53] <akgraner> 8) link logs to table sessions again
[20:53] <akgraner> vox754, sebsebseb pls :-)
[20:53] <akgraner> :-(
[20:53] <akgraner> I meant
[20:53] <sebsebseb> akgraner: nevermind I guess, since we are joking with each other, or so it seems
[20:54] <akgraner> it's cool for you all to - but not while I'm gather feedback  - its distracting
[20:54] <sebsebseb> good point plus not much time left now
[20:54] <mhall119> akgraner: you want feedback in here, or is there going to be an online survey?
[20:54] <akgraner> *nods*
[20:54] <sebsebseb> feel free to continue
[20:54] <vox754> akgraner, on the promotion thing. I'm subscribed to the Ubuntu News that show the security updates. Those also show the new release. I would expect them to show also Open Week and UDS, but they don't. I guess those feeds aren't exactly under the community control, but still.
[20:55] <akgraner> vox754, we did have it in there
[20:55] <akgraner> for several issues
[20:55] <akgraner> and in there I mean - UWN
[20:55] <ClassBot> There are are 5 minutes remaining in the current session.
[20:56] <akgraner> so did I miss anything?
[20:56] <JFo> no idea, too much churn
[20:56]  * JFo scrolls back
[20:56] <vox754> I mean this one: http://www.ubuntu.com/rss.xml  I originally subscribed to this one. The security bugs are also reported on ubuntuforums.org, that's how I found it.
[20:56] <mhall119> I missed the whole day :(
[20:57] <akgraner> mhall119,  logs are a beautiful thing :-)
[20:57] <mhall119> yeah, I've got a lot of catching up to do
[20:57] <akgraner> but sorry you missed the sessions today
[20:57] <JFo> akgraner, I can't see anything you missed
[20:57] <akgraner> 9) 25 sessions are good
[20:57] <JFo> but as for Q&A sessions, if the teams are to prepare some content then they won't be Q&A sessions
[20:57] <JFo> :-0
[20:57] <JFo> errr :-)
[20:57] <jcastro> well
[20:58] <JFo> :-P
[20:58] <jcastro> this time we were the week after release
[20:58] <jcastro> so I kind of asked for general Q+A sessions from teams
[20:58] <jcastro> in order to answer people's questions, etc.
[20:58] <vox754> Like I would like them to appear here http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13
[20:58] <akgraner> JFo, I know the kernel team and desktop teams had some prepared questions and comments
[20:58] <sebsebseb> jcastro: uh isn't Open Week always the week, after the new release?
[20:58] <JFo> true
[20:58] <jcastro> and so many people were busy that it was easier for them
[20:58] <jcastro> sebsebseb: not always, just recently
[20:58] <vox754> and here http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/USN-937-1
[20:58] <jcastro> it used to be in the middle
[20:58] <mhall119> there were a lot of people asking specific support questions I noticed
[20:58] <JFo> akgraner, but I thought the point meant to present something
[20:58] <sebsebseb> jcastro: middle of the month after release?
[20:58] <JFo> if that isn't the case, disregard me :)
[20:59] <jcastro> in the middleish of the cycle
[20:59] <akgraner> JFo, hehe just to have content incase of lull
[20:59] <jcastro> it wasn't until the last 2 I think where we decided it would always be the week afyer
[20:59] <mhall119> perhaps a "triage" session would be good, where someone(s) field bug complaints, and direct people on where and how to file them specifically
[20:59] <JFo> akgraner, cool, then nevermind what I said :)
[20:59] <sebsebseb> oh ok
[20:59] <nealmcb> I agree - a bit more presentation, less pure-q&a - helps explain things
[20:59] <akgraner> ok  - thanks everyone!!!
[20:59] <JFo> mhall119, I think that is in danger of being a week long session :)
[20:59] <jcastro> ok
[21:00] <akgraner> Great Open Week-Lucid
[21:00] <nealmcb> byobu is a great tool, but hard to use in a live presentation -hard to notice things happening, can't go backwards
[21:00] <jcastro> \o/
[21:00] <mhall119> JFo: true, but hopefully an hour of watching where other people get directed will help some others do it themselves
[21:00] <nealmcb> great week - thanks folks!
[21:00] <sebsebseb> Thanks jcastro akgraner and the other people who  did Open Week!
[21:00]  * nealmcb unlags by the end :)
[21:00] <JFo> mhall119, I agree
[21:00] <vox754> I guess Open Week and UDS are properly promoted, I just fail to frequent social sites, like one of the talks suggested.
[21:00] <akgraner> Thanks for all the feedback - now let's make marverick kick butt!!
[21:00] <mhall119> When is Ubuntu User Day?
[21:00]  * JFo cues Top Gun theme music
[21:01] <vox754> What's a meerkat by the way?
[21:01] <sebsebseb> mhall119: I think next one about three months from now, but not sure
[21:01] <sebsebseb> vox754: Ubuntu 10.10
[21:01] <JFo> vox google meerkat manor
[21:01] <bencrisford> vox754: its an african animal
[21:01] <bencrisford> a bit like a mongoose
[21:01] <JFo> err vox754 that is
[21:01] <mhall119> 3 months?  I thought it would be sooner
[21:01] <kyubutsu> and its not a cat either
[21:01] <kyubutsu> -_-
[21:01] <vox754> meerkat not a cat --- fail
[21:02] <kyubutsu> they are real cool .. if not cooler than cats
[21:02] <mhall119> that's why it's spelled with a k
[21:02] <vox754> 'cause it's not a cat
[21:02] <mhall119> also because they run KDE
[21:02] <pleia2> lol
[21:02] <JFo> :-|
[21:02] <bencrisford> vox754: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OcX-yKh0-M&feature=PlayList&p=013B46BD6DF1DD52&playnext_from=PL&index=0&playnext=1
[21:02] <pleia2> mhall119: I *think* we're shooting for first weekend in June for UUD
[21:02] <bencrisford> thats a popular advert in the UK :)
[21:02]  * JFo awards mhall119 the bad pun of the day trophy
[21:02] <ausimage> since it just banter all logs are up :)
[21:02] <mhall119> pleia2: cool
[21:02] <pleia2> mhall119: we'll update /UserDays soon though :)
[21:03] <mhall119> JFo: I shall treasure it forevah
[21:03] <JFo> :)
[21:03] <JFo> mhall119, you going to UDS?
[21:03] <mhall119> pleia2: please let me know (of have cjohnston let me know), I'd like to teach again
[21:03] <mhall119> JFo: no, unfortunately
[21:03] <vox754> What's UUD?   again with the acronyms... help
[21:03] <JFo> :-(
[21:03] <mhall119> vox754: Ubuntu User Day
[21:04] <mhall119> kind of like Open Week, only more geared to using specific apps/tools
[21:04] <mhall119> the last one was like 14 hours long
[21:04] <vox754> I think I attended, accidentally again, one of those.
[21:05] <pleia2> mhall119: great, thanks!
[21:05] <mhall119> I'll just have to upgrade to Lucid before it happens
[21:06] <vox754> bencrisford, Funny Meerkat ad, thanks.
[21:06] <nealmcb> the tweets from @ubuntuclassroom include confusing text like #ubuntu-classroom - would an irc url work better there?  Or a link to a web page?
[21:07] <nealmcb> (confusing because twitter highlights "#ubuntu" as a twitter topic for search)
[21:13] <cjohnston> nealmcb: file a wishlist against classbot to get that changed
[21:14] <cjohnston> mhall119: talk to me after uds and ill set you up
[21:14] <yofel> btw, about maverick: shouldn't the toolchain be uploaded by now? ubuntu+1 is still invite-only
[21:16] <jcastro> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/maverick-changes/2010-May/thread.html
[21:16] <jcastro> looks like at least parts of it are there
[21:18] <yofel> toolchain was scheduled for the 6th originally, and it would be nice if +1 would open before uds :/
[21:18] <mhall119> cjohnston: cool
[21:22] <ddecator> dang, i missed the class...good thing i have it logged =)
[21:22] <ddecator> thanks for the helpful info jcastro
[21:22] <jcastro> <3
[21:22] <ddecator> now i just have to join this crazy amount of channels o.o
[21:24] <yofel> we have more rooms than for lucid I think (or I'm just influenced by the amount...)
[21:24] <jcastro> we have a boatload more now
[21:25] <jcastro> the arm track, security, and design are all new tracks
[21:25] <yofel> I do remember requesting that my channel join limit should be removed though
[21:29] <nealmcb> akgraner: I just read the booklet - the pics/bios are great - thanks!   I wonder why use pdf though?  (vs enhancing the wiki)
[21:40] <nealmcb> cjohnston: good idea.  here it is:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/classbot/+bug/577184


[07:50] <maxb> window level all
[14:03] <ttx> persia: meeting ?
[14:06] <persia> I thought it was in an hour.
[14:06] <persia> Did you change to 13:00 last week?
[14:06] <ttx> hm, no
[14:07] <ttx> I'm just wrong
[14:07] <ttx> or rather, Google Calendar is
[14:46] <amirgavvv> hi
[14:46] <amirgavvv> can anyone help me here with java
[14:46] <amirgavvv> its a univercity project i need to compelete
[14:58] <persia> OK.  Now it's about time.
[14:59] <ttx> heh, sorry for the false alarm :)
[14:59] <persia> Actually, it was a good thing :)
[22:32] <mbana> hello
[22:32] <persia> hello
[22:32] <mbana> can i force an installation of the 32bit vm on a 64bit system
[22:32] <persia> You probably could, but you'd have a lot of work to do to make sure it worked properly.
[22:32] <mbana> via the package mananger i meaant
[22:32] <mbana> meatn
[22:33] <mbana> meant
[22:33] <mbana> eh
[22:33] <persia> Right, but the VM depends on a lot of libraries, so you'd need to force 32-bit versions of those, recursively.  Easier to use a 64-bit VM or a 32-bit system.
[22:36] <mbana> ok see