[17:14] <Aloha> premeeting tailgate
[17:17] <Rinchen> a pre-gate?
[17:17] <Rinchen> head gate?
[17:17] <Rinchen> ah, no, a jump start!
[17:18] <Rinchen> seems we've lost mootbot for today.  I've pinged the scribes team but I doubt it will be fixed in time
[17:19] <Aloha> what happened?
[17:37] <Rinchen> yea! Welcome back MootBot
[17:41] <thumper> Rinchen: bet you're happy about that
[17:42] <Rinchen> indeed I am!
[17:46] <Aloha> woohoo bot is back
[17:54] <Rinchen> welcome welcome.  There are plenty of chairs.
[17:55] <Rinchen> There are a few down here in here front
[17:55] <Rinchen> now, let's see if this project works
[17:55] <Rinchen> #startmeeting
[17:55] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:55. The chair is Rinchen.
[17:55] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:56] <Rinchen> Welcome to the Launchpad Developers Meeting!
[17:56] <Rinchen> The purpose of the meetings is to coordinate Launchpad development, and particularly to ensure that none of the developers is blocked from doing what they need to do.
[17:56] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Agenda
[17:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Roll call
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Agenda
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Next meeting
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Actions from last meeting
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Oops report (Matsubara)
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[17:56] <Rinchen>     *
[17:56] <Rinchen>       Bug tags
[17:57] <Rinchen>     *
[17:57] <Rinchen>       Operations report (mthaddon)
[17:57] <Rinchen>     *
[17:57] <Rinchen>       DBA report (stub)
[17:57] <Rinchen>     *
[17:57] <Rinchen>       Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[17:57] <Rinchen>     *
[17:57] <Rinchen>       New packages required (salgado)
[17:57] <Rinchen>     *
[17:57] <Rinchen>       A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[17:57] <Rinchen> ug
[17:57] <Rinchen> Blockers
[17:57] <Rinchen> Thumper just pointed out that my clock is apparently off
[17:57] <stub> Only four minutes or so...
[17:57] <stub> I was just sobering up
[17:57] <mrevell> heh :)
[17:58] <Aloha> lol
[17:58] <barry> Rinchen: dress rehearsal?
[17:58] <Rinchen> apparently
[17:58]  * Rinchen kicks ntp
[17:58] <intellectronica> since when are we having launchpad meetings dressed?...
[17:58] <Aloha> heh
[17:58]  * sinzu1 covers up
[17:59] <Rinchen> well, let's do an early
[17:59] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Roll Call
[17:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Roll Call
[17:59] <sinzui> me
[17:59] <EdwinGru> me
[17:59] <thumper> me
[17:59] <mthaddon> me
[17:59] <mwhudson> me
[17:59] <kiko> me
[17:59] <matsubara> me
[17:59] <vednis> me
[17:59] <mrevell> me
[17:59] <BjornT> me
[17:59] <Aloha> me
[17:59] <jtv> me
[17:59] <stub> me
[17:59] <intellectronica> me
[17:59] <barry> me
[17:59] <salgado> me
[17:59] <gmb> me
[17:59] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Rinchen to fix intro script on the meeting page
[17:59] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to fix intro script on the meeting page
[18:00] <danilos> me
[18:00] <flacoste> am i late?
[18:00] <flacoste> mr
[18:00] <flacoste> me
[18:00] <schwuk> me
[18:00] <Aloha> flacoste, early
[18:00] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Rinchen to fix agenda so it's cut-n-paste-able
[18:00] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to fix agenda so it's cut-n-paste-able
[18:00] <allenap> me
[18:00] <stub> ACTION Rincen to fix his ntp setup
[18:00] <flacoste> stub: indeed!
[18:00] <Rinchen> yeah, my ntp is hosed.
[18:01] <carlos> me?
[18:01] <thumper> stub: you missed the []
[18:01] <danilos> :)
[18:01] <matsubara> Rinchen: the agenda is actually quite cut-n-paste friendly if you use raw mode :-)
[18:01] <flacoste> Rinchen jumped the gun
[18:01] <Rinchen> I'm doing my normal...let's start early routine apparently
[18:01] <Rinchen> Anyone who hasn't said ME, please do so now
[18:01] <kiko> said ME!
[18:01] <abentley> ME
[18:02] <Rinchen> thanks
[18:02] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Next meeting
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting
[18:02] <Rinchen> The next meeting is on the 14th.
[18:02] <Rinchen> kiko, same time, 18:00?
[18:02] <stub> ME
[18:02] <thumper> I like this time more
[18:02] <barry> Rinchen: maybe 17:58? <wink>
[18:02] <kiko> yes!
[18:03] <Rinchen> [AGREED] Next meeting 14 Feb @ 18:00 UTC
[18:03] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Next meeting 14 Feb @ 18:00 UTC
[18:03] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Actions from last meeting
[18:03] <barry> well, i /know/ one of these days i'll take a late lunch and forget :)
[18:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from last meeting
[18:03] <leonardr> me
[18:03] <thumper> barry: get google calendar to remind you :)
[18:03] <Rinchen> there were no actions recorded
[18:03] <barry> thumper: doesn't help when you're not in front of your lappie
[18:04] <thumper> barry: it can SMS you
[18:04] <Rinchen> [TOPIC]  Oops report (Matsubara)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:   Oops report (Matsubara)
[18:04]  * sinzui 's phone has the launchpad cal on it
[18:04]  * barry has cheap-ass cell services :)
[18:04] <matsubara> jtv: Can you take a look at OOPS-764F1198? I think it's related to bug 186548, but didn't happen during an import
[18:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186548 in rosetta "Still an "iterable argument required" on Slovenian translation import" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186548
[18:04] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/764F1198
[18:05] <Aloha> flacoste, the meeting is
[18:05] <Aloha> hoser!
[18:05] <matsubara> intellectronica: the +roadmap timeout bug is targeted to this cycle, but has no assignee. It's currently the second top timeout of the week
[18:05] <matsubara> intellectronica: bug 185135
[18:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185135 in blueprint "+roadmap page still times out" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185135
[18:05]  * Aloha likes the 1800 time
[18:05] <danilos> matsubara: I was supposed to look at 186548, didn't have the time this past week
[18:05] <kiko> matsubara, I saw a couple of odd oopses in the latest reports -- have you gone through them?
[18:05] <intellectronica> matsubara: i'll take a look
[18:05] <kiko> ah! also
[18:05] <matsubara> danilos: right. is the OOPS I pasted above related to it?
[18:06] <kiko> I have found a number of 404s related to merged accounts
[18:06] <kiko> salgado, have some time to look over them with me later today?
[18:06] <danilos> matsubara: very much looks like it; how many of those do we get?
[18:06] <Rinchen> [ACTION] intellectronica to investigate Bug 185135
[18:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  intellectronica to investigate Bug 185135
[18:06] <jtv> matsubara: certainly looks related
[18:06] <danilos> matsubara: we used to have a single occurrence before, which is why I didn't bother
[18:06] <abentley> kiko: I changed my username and now I get 404s.
[18:06] <matsubara> kiko: I think we linkify a $name-merged in some portlet still
[18:06] <salgado> kiko, could it be tomorrow? I am on call today and have a call with flacoste after the meeting
[18:06] <matsubara> there's a bug for open for that
[18:06] <abentley> It would be nice to have redirects.
[18:06] <kiko> salgado, okay, tomorrow then, please remind me
[18:07] <flacoste> abentley: the point of merging is to also free up the name space
[18:07] <kiko> matsubara, OOPS-763C1027, OOPS-763D1843 OOPS-767B2435 OOPS-767E2288
[18:07] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763C1027
[18:07] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763D1843
[18:07] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767B2435
[18:07] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767E2288
[18:07] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Salgado and Kiko to discuss recent 404s
[18:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Salgado and Kiko to discuss recent 404s
[18:07] <matsubara> there's another oops in the DataTimeWidget which I haven't reported yet. will do after the meeting
[18:07] <Rinchen> did someone from Translations take the early oops request?
[18:07] <Rinchen> jtv?
[18:08] <abentley> flacoste: sure, but until the freed name is taken, you can redirect to the appropriate place.  A grace period.
[18:08] <carlos> Rinchen: jtv did
[18:08] <Rinchen> [ACTION] jtv to investigate  OOPS-764F1198
[18:08] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/764F1198
[18:08] <MootBot> ACTION received:  jtv to investigate  OOPS-764F1198
[18:08] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/764F1198
[18:08] <adeuring> me
[18:08]  * Rinchen waves to adeuring
[18:08] <danilos> Rinchen: I already looked at it, it seems to be instance of the bug matsubara mentioned
[18:08] <matsubara> Rinchen: that oops is related to the bug danilo will check out
[18:09] <SteveA> me!
[18:09] <matsubara> [ACTION] matsubara to file a bug about the DateTimeWidget oops (https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/OOPS-765EB80)
[18:09] <Rinchen> ACTION] matsubara to file a bug about the DateTimeWidget oops (https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/OOPS-765EB80)
[18:09] <Rinchen> [ACTION] matsubara to file a bug about the DateTimeWidget oops (https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/OOPS-765EB80)
[18:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to file a bug about the DateTimeWidget oops (https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/OOPS-765EB80)
[18:09] <matsubara> thanks Rinchen
[18:09] <Rinchen> meeting chair permissions, sorry
[18:09] <Rinchen> anything else on oopses?
[18:10] <matsubara> I think I'm done for now. thanks
[18:10] <kiko> hey!
[18:10] <Rinchen> great thanks matsubara
[18:10] <kiko> what about the oopses I posted matsubara?
[18:10] <matsubara> kiko: isn't that the 404 you and salgado are going to investigate?
[18:10] <jtv> kiko: The last one was a known problem with tar file uploads (from what I see in the source, malformed ones)
[18:11] <kiko> matsubara, no, none of them are 404s.
[18:12] <Rinchen> [ACTION] matsubara to investigate OOPS-763C1027, OOPS-763D1843 OOPS-767B2435 OOPS-767E2288
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763C1027
[18:12] <MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to investigate OOPS-763C1027, OOPS-763D1843 OOPS-767B2435 OOPS-767E2288
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763D1843
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767B2435
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767E2288
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763C1027
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/763D1843
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767B2435
[18:12] <ubotu> https://devpad.canonical.com/~jamesh/oops.cgi/767E2288
[18:12] <Rinchen> moving on...
[18:12] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[18:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[18:12] <SteveA> I want to discuss https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-01-30/B1498 with someone
[18:12]  * kiko kicks Rinchen
[18:12] <SteveA> later
[18:12] <Rinchen> Hi, I have no critical bugs to talk about today but I would like to talk about bug which causes the "choose" widget to fail for beta team members. Thanks to sinzui for doing the initial problem determination.  I wanted a consensus that this is really high and not critical.
[18:12] <Rinchen> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/189742
[18:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/189742
[18:13] <Rinchen> I have set that as high and not critical. Does anyone have any issues with that?
[18:13]  * thumper looks
[18:13] <SteveA> does it actually cause something to not work?
[18:13] <SteveA> I'm kind of surprised at that
[18:14] <Rinchen> Yes. Clicking on it does nothing.
[18:14] <SteveA> I'd expect a JS error to be logged
[18:14] <SteveA> ok
[18:14] <danilos> SteveA: I remember jtv looking into it and suspecting some sort of cache issue
[18:14] <kiko> no issues, but it's weird
[18:14] <sinzui> SteveA: The popup widget will fail
[18:14] <kiko> cache issue?!
[18:14] <SteveA> nah
[18:14] <SteveA> it's just going to the wrong host
[18:14] <danilos> SteveA: (the OOPS for 'TranslationMessage deleted')
[18:14] <SteveA> no problem -- we can fix it in apache easily enough
[18:14] <jtv> danilos: the cache issue wasn't me
[18:15] <Rinchen> We're agreed to leaving it as high then.   Objections?
[18:15] <SteveA> Rinchen: I'd propose doing a workaround in apache then doing a proper fix as a medium priority task
[18:15] <kiko> agreed
[18:15] <danilos> jtv: didn't you mention something about looking into https://devpad.canonical.com/~matsubara/oops.cgi/2008-01-30/B1498 already?
[18:15] <jtv> danilos: yes, but the cache issue wasn't me
[18:15] <Rinchen> [AGREED] work around should be done in apache and the proper fix can be a medium task
[18:15] <MootBot> AGREED received:  work around should be done in apache and the proper fix can be a medium task
[18:16] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Rinchen to update the bug report
[18:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Rinchen to update the bug report
[18:16] <danilos> jtv: you are totally confusing me
[18:16] <Rinchen> any further discussion on critical bugs before we move on?
[18:16] <jtv> danilos: I did not suspect a cache issue.
[18:16] <danilos> jtv: ok
[18:16] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Bug tags
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug tags
[18:17] <Rinchen> We have no proposed bug tags
[18:17] <SteveA> just a sec
[18:17] <SteveA> to clarify
[18:17] <SteveA> the cache issue discussion was about OOPS B1498
[18:17] <SteveA> not about the +dims on edge issue
[18:17] <SteveA> clarification over
[18:17] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon)
[18:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon)
[18:17] <mthaddon> Nothing major to report, rather disappointingly
[18:18] <mthaddon> unless there are any questions, back to you, Rinchen
[18:18] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] DBA report (stub)
[18:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  DBA report (stub)
[18:18] <stub> DB review review call with Mark scheduled for Monday. I don't forsee any issues with this months patches so hopefully formal reviews will all be done Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
[18:18] <stub> Purchasing new kick arse db hardware to replace the existing kick arse db hardware is in the final stages. We can expect a little downtime as things are rsynced across. Thanks to elmo for the benchmarking and driving this through over the xmas break.
[18:18] <stub> https://launchpad.canonical.com/AuthPersonSplit isn't finished or polished but is ready enough for people to have a look and approve or scream.
[18:18] <stub> Me done.
[18:19] <thumper> question
[18:19] <thumper> stub: does this mean that the db won't be open until Tuesday?
[18:19] <stub> thumper: Given it is Friday, it can open as soon as someone lands a branch that opens it.
[18:20] <stub> thumper: If there is something approved from a previous cycle go for it.
[18:20] <Aloha> stub, its friday for you?
[18:20] <thumper> Aloha: and me
[18:20] <stub> 1:20am
[18:20] <jtv> and me
[18:20] <Aloha> woah its thursday morning here
[18:20] <thumper> stub: I'll talk to you later about my patch
[18:20] <SteveA> I propose a call sometime next week with me, stub and some people from the Foundations team to talk over AuthPersonSplit
[18:20] <kiko> good idea
[18:21] <stub> It will need discussion.
[18:21] <thumper> Aloha: 7:21am Friday here
[18:21] <Rinchen> [ACTION] Steve to arrange a call sometime next week with stub and some people from the Foundations team to talk over AuthPersonSplit
[18:21] <Aloha> thumper, almost 24 hours difference
[18:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Steve to arrange a call sometime next week with stub and some people from the Foundations team to talk over AuthPersonSplit
[18:21] <Rinchen> Anything else on DB?
[18:22] <Rinchen> hmm my ntp client is fixed
[18:22] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[18:22] <Rinchen> I have nothing to report on this, this week.  Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?
[18:22] <kiko> not me
[18:22] <Rinchen> I will add that since lamont has joined IS, we have seen in an increase in ticket closures
[18:22] <kiko> I posted an RT but forgot about it
[18:23] <Rinchen> flacoste, barry - are the mailman RTs still ok as is?
[18:23] <flacoste> Rinchen: i think so
[18:23] <mrevell> Rinchen: I wouldn't say it was urgent but it'd be nice to get the Launchpad News blog some spam filtering. I'm hunting for the RT number.
[18:24] <Rinchen> I saw those 258 awaiting moderation comments
[18:24] <mrevell> Rinchen: Yeah, and because one of the spams is huge, WP freaks out and prevents moderation
[18:24] <Rinchen> [ACTION] mrevell to ping Rinchen about new blog spam
[18:24] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mrevell to ping Rinchen about new blog spam
[18:24] <mrevell> thanks
[18:25] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)
[18:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  New packages required (salgado)
[18:25] <salgado> if any of the features you have targeted to this cycle depend on any library which is not in launchpad-dependencies or inside our sourcecode/ directory, come talk to me
[18:25] <thumper> packages for lp?
[18:25] <salgado> that's not really a new topic
[18:25] <kiko> salgado, I have one
[18:25] <Rinchen> lp dependencies
[18:25] <thumper> salgado: turbogears for codebrowse
[18:25] <kiko> salgado, cjwatson pointed out germinate is missing
[18:26] <salgado> any others?
[18:26]  * thumper wonders what germinate is
[18:26] <SteveA> are we getting launchpad-dependencies inside our sourcecode tree?
[18:26] <SteveA> I'd like that
[18:26] <SteveA> thumper: it's a tool to work out the packages that appear in a distro
[18:26] <Rinchen> [ACTION] salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate
[18:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate
[18:26] <SteveA> thumper: from a set of initial seeds, then looking at their dependencies
[18:26]  * thumper nods
[18:27] <salgado> Rinchen, I'm done, btw
[18:27] <Rinchen> waiting on your reply salgado to Steve's question
[18:27] <flacoste> Rinchen: i need to discuss this with salgado
 are we getting launchpad-dependencies inside our sourcecode tree?
[18:27] <Rinchen> k
[18:28] <flacoste> Rinchen: it was on my todo list, but forget about it during the sprint
[18:28] <Rinchen> [ACTION] flacoste to discussing adding launchpad-dependencies inside the sourcecode tree with salgado
[18:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  flacoste to discussing adding launchpad-dependencies inside the sourcecode tree with salgado
[18:28] <Rinchen> no problem, thanks
[18:28] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[18:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[18:28] <mrevell> Hello. I don't have any user-affecting issues this week as all the usual sources have either dealt with issues I've raised previously or have been quiet.
[18:28] <kiko> I'm concerned with rosetta timeouts again
[18:29] <kiko> how about we resurrect the ole ajax suggestions patch?
[18:29] <kiko> it's a simpler change and would work in the shorter term
[18:29] <kiko> than a big refactoring
[18:29] <kiko> opinions?
[18:29] <carlos> kiko: as I said last time you said that (I think it was last week) I prefer that we profile the code before going for ajax...
[18:29] <danilos> kiko: I'd still prefer going for the fixing only those messages which cause timeouts
[18:30] <carlos> after having some profile information, we will know whether ajax is needed or trivial changes would improve the performance
[18:30] <kiko> aren't we sure we're timing out because of the multiple requests for suggestions?
[18:30] <danilos> kiko: we aren't
[18:30] <kiko> okay. where's the profile, then?
[18:30] <Aloha> whats the address for LP news blog?
[18:30] <stub> I've been pushing strongly for suggestions to be done async
[18:30] <mrevell> Aloha: news.launchpad.net
[18:30] <jtv> there is no profile in the usual sense: we have oops reports.
[18:31] <kiko> that isn't a very straight answer
[18:31] <danilos> kiko: I am pretty sure we are timing out because of the few very common messages and their external suggestions
[18:31] <Aloha> mrevell, thnx
[18:31] <carlos> danilos: do you have documented your last profile work?
[18:31] <kiko> can someone do the investigation and conclude and make a plan to fix this by next week?
[18:31] <kiko> I just want a plan, not a fix
[18:31] <danilos> carlos: that was before the refactoring
[18:31] <danilos> kiko: sure, I'll do that
[18:31] <carlos> danilos: I'm not talking about the data you got but the procedure you followed to do the profiling
[18:31]  * kiko nudges Rinchen
[18:32] <Rinchen> was that action for danilos and the profile or the whole time out issue?
[18:32] <danilos> carlos: I don't have it documented, it's not really a big deal
[18:32] <jtv> List of possible ideas here: https://launchpad.canonical.com/Translations/Timeouts
[18:32] <kiko> Rinchen, yes
[18:32] <carlos> Rinchen: danilo does the profile, and the whole team prepares a proposal for next meeting
[18:33] <carlos> based on the data we got
[18:33] <Rinchen> [ACTION] danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts
[18:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts
[18:33] <danilos> matsubara: can I get a list of all the timeouts for +translate pages (I need exact message IDs where fetching external suggestion fails)?
[18:33] <jtv> danilos: it varies.
[18:33] <danilos> matsubara: I mean, is it possible to get that? (for the last week or so)
[18:33] <Rinchen> I see no special request topics.... does anyone have any last minute items.. steve kiko?
[18:33] <danilos> jtv: I know it varies
[18:34] <SteveA> I wonder if there's a way to get the data by analyzing our oops reports specially...
[18:34] <jtv> danilos: I mean, once it's loaded, it stops timing out.
[18:34] <matsubara> danilos: yes, I can get them for you.
[18:34] <kiko> pas mois
[18:34] <danilos> jtv: not necessarily, I see many times same page timing out for 37 times or so
[18:34] <danilos> matsubara: cool, thanks, should I ping you about it tomorrow?
[18:34] <jtv> danilos: until it's fully loaded, yes.
[18:34] <matsubara> danilos: yes, please do.
[18:34] <danilos> matsubara: cool, thanks
[18:35] <Rinchen> [TOPIC] Blockers
[18:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blockers
[18:35] <Rinchen> [AGREED] Releases Team:  Rinchen blocked on Moin OpenID nickname decision. Rinchen blocked on team support in Moin.
[18:35] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Releases Team:  Rinchen blocked on Moin OpenID nickname decision. Rinchen blocked on team support in Moin.
[18:35] <flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
[18:35] <jtv> Translations team: Not blocked
[18:35] <thumper> Code: not blocked
[18:35] <BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
[18:35] <kiko> Rinchen, what's this openid nickname stuff?
[18:35] <kiko> I have read about it in emails but forgot all about it
[18:35] <carlos> Rinchen: agreed?
[18:35] <Rinchen> carlos, yeah so it shows up in the summary
[18:35] <matsubara> Rinchen: [ACTION] matsubara to get last week +translate timeouts OOPS ids for danilo
[18:35] <flacoste> kiko: OpenID returns the launchpad nickname instead of the wiki name
[18:36] <Rinchen> [ACTION] matsubara to get last week +translate timeouts OOPS ids for danilo
[18:36] <MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to get last week +translate timeouts OOPS ids for danilo
[18:36] <carlos> Rinchen: so all blocked things should be set as agreed?
[18:36] <matsubara> Rinchen: gracias
[18:36] <flacoste> kiko: so on launchpad.canonical.com Rinchen is known as rinchen instead of JoeyStanford
[18:36] <kiko> flacoste, can OpenID not pass back more than one identifier?
[18:37] <stub> I think spiv was right all along and the wikis should be using emailaddress anyway
[18:37] <flacoste> kiko: we can pass back the appropriate wiki name based on the connecting site and the information we have in the DB
[18:37] <kiko> stub, that's still different from launchpad name
[18:37] <flacoste> kiko: or we can pass extra information, but that requires the wiki to handle that extra information
[18:37] <stub> (or I have to move Person.name to Account.name too)
[18:37] <kiko> so either way a change needs to be made
[18:37] <Rinchen> I think we should continue the wiki discussion after the meeting
[18:37] <kiko> flacoste, how overbooked is vednis yet?
[18:37] <stub> kiko: Yes. I'm just trying to push the direction it gets changed :-)
[18:37] <flacoste> kiko: is not
[18:38] <Rinchen> kiko, soyuz team blocked?
[18:38] <kiko> flacoste, we could get him to look into this since it does block a big migration
[18:38] <kiko> not really
[18:38] <Rinchen> statik's team blocked?
[18:38] <Rinchen> SteveA, special circumstances blocked?
[18:38] <schwuk> hwdb: not blocked
[18:38] <SteveA> jamesh, stub: blocked?
[18:38] <SteveA> I'm not blocked
[18:38] <stub> Nup
[18:38] <SteveA> SC: not blocked
[18:39] <Rinchen> bigjools, cprov - you guys blocked?
[18:40] <Rinchen> I'll take that as a no.
[18:40] <flacoste> kiko: yes, if that's what we want to do, it could
[18:40] <SteveA> danilos, matsubara: I'd like to help you plan out how to analyze oops reports for maybe cacheing certain suggestions
[18:40] <cprov> Rinchen: no
[18:40] <flacoste> kiko: but i think stub has objections to syncing wikiname data across databases
[18:41] <kiko> stub, only issue with using emailaddress is legacy links all over our wikis
[18:41] <stub> We can sync stuff. But this is why we need the auth/person split discussion.
[18:41] <kiko> right
[18:41] <EdwinGrubbs> lpcomm: not blocked
[18:42] <Rinchen> thanks EdwinGrubbs
[18:42] <danilos> SteveA: we're just going to look into them and see if my suspicion is correct (if it is, then we're going to play with caching them)
[18:42] <stub> The wikiname table needs to be refactored anyway. Great big hairy WHUI IMO
[18:42] <danilos> SteveA: you are welcome to help anytime, though :)
[18:42] <flacoste> what is WHUI?
[18:42] <Rinchen> Thanks everyone for attending this week's mayhem...er Development Meeting.
[18:42] <SteveA> flacoste: We Haven't Used It
[18:42] <flacoste> thanks for a on time meeting
[18:42] <SteveA> flacoste: what happens when a YAGNI isn't considered early enough
[18:43] <flacoste> right
[18:43] <thumper> :)
[18:43] <Rinchen> #endmeeting
[18:43] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:43.
[18:43] <kiko> stub, well.. we use it in all our person pages actually
[18:43] <mwhudson> what's the other one? DON?
[18:43] <SteveA> danilos: I'm hoping we can get more specific than "we'll just look at them" :)
[18:43] <kiko> there are many people that have multiple wikinames
[18:43] <SteveA> yes
[18:43] <mrevell> thanks everyone
[18:43] <flacoste> sub, and Rinchen is probably a big user of the feature
[18:43] <flacoste> that's why he's so vocal about it
[18:43] <thumper> it was good to be here for a change
[18:43] <flacoste> kiko: how many?
[18:44] <flacoste> hey, i've got staging access...
[18:44] <flacoste> i can check that
[18:44] <kiko> GoOD
[18:44] <stub> kiko: We use the information, but the design is my issue. Maybe WHUI isn't the term, but the table design is a pain to use the information the way we want to.
[18:44] <danilos> SteveA: well, I can easily be more specific... I am going to count on which msgid's has the suggestion fetching been timing out, and the number of all suggestions in DB for those msgid's
[18:44] <SteveA> stub: do a view on it, then mirror the view, perhaps?
[18:44] <kiko> stub, how could it be different, though? sorry, I am unimaginative today
[18:45] <SteveA> danilos: can we talk this over on a quieter irc channel in say 15 mins?
[18:45] <danilos> SteveA: in my previous tests, these cases have caused the most problems (i.e. strings like "Name" which have thousands of translations per language in different PO files, thus DB needs to go through all of them)
[18:45] <danilos> SteveA: I am mostly planning to be out in 15 minutes
[18:46] <SteveA> danilos: so... grab hard and soft timeout OOPSes for +translate pages...
[18:47] <SteveA> danilos: for a particular set of days
[18:47] <danilos> SteveA: yeah
[18:47] <salgado> thumper, kiko, bug 189994, fyi
[18:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189994 in launchpad "Add python-turbogears and germinate to launchpad-dependencies" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189994
[18:47] <SteveA> danilos: then, collate them by msgid
[18:48] <mwhudson> turbogears is fun, because of a crack headed conflicts: line in a dependency
[18:48] <SteveA> danilos: then, work out how much time is spent in suggestion-getting queries?
[18:48] <danilos> SteveA: right, that's the plan (matsubara will provide me with an initial set of oopses for the last 7 days), I'll look for queries taking the most time
[18:48] <mwhudson> (turbogears depends: on python-sqlobject|python-sqlalchemy and python-sqlalchemy conflicts: with psycopg1)
[18:48] <stub> kiko: We will be logging into the wikis via openid using an emailaddress, so wikiname is purely legacy for our wikis. The table design where 99.9% have 'launchpad.net' or whatever as their wikiname is a bit borked.
[18:48] <danilos> SteveA: exactly, and the prime suspect is the query from getExternalSuggestions
[18:48] <SteveA> danilos: I'd like you to do this scientifically -- a scientist will write down the steps to produce a result -- in your case some figures time taken to get suggestions for particular msgids
[18:49] <SteveA> danilos: then someone else can reproduce the analysis on other data, easily, if needed
[18:49] <danilos> SteveA: uhm, that's how I am going to do it
[18:49] <SteveA> danilos: to do this, the way of doing the analysis needs to be written down
[18:49] <danilos> SteveA: that's how I've always did it, including the previous performance improvements I did
[18:50] <danilos> SteveA: and that's what I always do (except for the specific 'import cprofile' and similar bits)
[18:50] <SteveA> cool.  I'm very interested to see how it goes.  I think you had a very insightful idea to cache just the most common suggestions
[18:50] <danilos> SteveA: sure, I'll keep you in the loop
[18:50] <SteveA> thanks!
[18:50] <stub> My rationale for moving the suggestions async as the preferred next step is that the pages would no longer time out - just some of them will take a long time to fully load but they are still usable. Even if we optimize and speed up the translation db queries, it still only *might* stop timeouts and then maybe only for a time until our dataset grows more.
[18:56] <danilos> stub: there's another thing we're considering to actually remove exponential growth of data we have at the moment
[18:56] <kiko> salgado, thanks
[18:56] <danilos> stub: basically, sharing potmsgset's (between potemplates in different distroserieses)
[18:57] <danilos> stub: of course, solutions we've discussed earlier about db replication will never hurt, and are truly the only real solution
[18:57] <stub> danilos: Rosetta is still affected by load on other parts of Launchpad. Even if rosetta remains stable or shrinks it doesn't mean other parts of lp won't step up and chew up all the resources you need
[18:57] <danilos> stub: agreed
[18:58] <danilos> stub: especially with all the other considerations, like implementing search and getting stable results out of it
[18:59] <danilos> anyway, done for the day


[00:06] <cmaloney> Oh that's fun
[02:41] <Mooncairn> I found a site with S20 specs. Have no idea if they're definitive.
[02:42] <Mooncairn> Supposedly, "ECC [is] supported by processor" and it comes with ECC memory.
[02:42] <Mooncairn> Haven't been able to track down a BIOS guide yet.
[02:49] <Mooncairn> Can confirm ECC mention in user guide. Unfortunately, only a single reference with no info on turning it on or off.
[02:50] <Mooncairn> With all cores turned on and almost 6 hours of testing (1 pass complete and 2nd is not quite done), no errors.
[02:50] <Mooncairn> Unfortunately, turning all cores on makes the CPU run much hotter. I've got my window open just to keep CPU temp down to 75C.
[02:52] <Mooncairn> Whatever's going on, it's sporadic enough that I didn't really notice issues until, what?, a week or two after ditching KDE and switching to GNOME.
[04:26] <cmaloney> ye gads
[14:32] <Mooncairn> I'm at a loss as to what to do with my computer.
[14:35] <jrwren> have you reinstalled OS or tried a different OS? maybe part of libc is corrupted? Have you installed thermal sensors, maybe it is overheating?
[14:35] <Mooncairn> Yes, I switched from Debian to Ubuntu. Completely fresh install.
[14:36] <Mooncairn> The CPU has thermal sensors. What other kind is there that I could install?
[14:37] <jrwren> no idea, but 75C does seem high for idle. what kind of CPU is it?
[14:37] <Mooncairn> The CPU can get close to 80C when all 8 virtual cores are running on a task. I try to configure things to not use all 8 cores at once.
[14:37] <Mooncairn> The 75C is during a test performed by memtest.
[14:37] <Mooncairn> Normally, the CPU idles around 38C.
[14:39] <Mooncairn> Some of memtest's tests actively uses only one core and have the rest in a busy loop, which I suspect generates a lot of heat.
[14:40] <Mooncairn> Last night I disabled hyperthreading in the BIOS and restarted memtest with only the 4 primary cores. Max temp is 77C during tests.
[14:40] <Mooncairn> With the bedroom window closed. ;-)
[14:40] <jrwren> I've no idea. Sounds like a bummer to me.
[14:41] <Mooncairn> Yes, it is.
[14:43] <Mooncairn> I'll have to try booting into Ubuntu's emergency mode and see if some of the errors I was seeing Monday were recorded in the logs.
[14:43] <Mooncairn> They all looked memory-related, IIRC.
[14:48] <jrwren> maybe memory is bad but memtest just isn't finding it?
[14:49] <jrwren> are there multiple dimms? have you tried eliminating one of them?
[14:49] <Mooncairn> There's 6 dimms. I haven't tried removing any of them yet.
[14:51] <Mooncairn> Nothing in kern.log. In syslog, a few failed assertions in gnome-terminal close to the time of the problems.
[14:52] <Mooncairn> I can see Ubuntu gearing up for a crash report on gnome-terminal, which checks out with what I remember happening.
[14:52] <Mooncairn> The thing in the log immediately before the crash notification is systemd starting the chezmoi snap.
[14:57] <Mooncairn> Nothing about the other GNOME errors that were popping up, and no ~/.xsession-errors file to check.
[14:58] <Mooncairn> So... Pull a DIMM (or two? not sure if these are paired), wait up to two weeks to see if anything else happens?
[15:20] <Mooncairn> Ok, this is a wild shot in the dark, but I've got nothing better: Could a font cause gnome-terminal and gnome-shell to go nuts? I had very recently installed some fonts in my .local/fonts dir around the time things started to go wild.
[15:20] <Mooncairn> So, (malicious?) software problem after all? (Yea, I know it's a bit of a reach.)
[15:24] <jrwren> yes, it is possible, but you said it was messed up even with previous distro.
[15:26] <Mooncairn> There are LOTS of mentions to the fonts in the syslog. Failure to create cairo scaled font and out of memory errors for gnome-terminal.
[15:26] <cmaloney> The OOM issues are a bit worrying
[15:26] <Mooncairn> I never was able to pin down what was wrong with the previous distro. Just lots of small random things breaking.
[15:27] <Mooncairn> "scaled_font status is: out of memory"
[15:27] <Mooncairn> A bunch of that in the log
[15:27] <cmaloney> Do you have a spare drive to reinstall onto?
[15:28] <Mooncairn> Not really.
[15:28] <cmaloney> try this: create a new user
[15:28] <cmaloney> and start with that
[15:28] <cmaloney> copy things over from your old home dir as needed
[15:28] <cmaloney> see if that fixes things
[15:29] <cmaloney> barring that, move your home dir to old_home and start fresh
[15:30] <Mooncairn> That's what I've been doing with the new install.
[15:30] <Mooncairn> I haven't really moved anything from my old home yet.
[15:31] <Mooncairn> I was slowly building up my new home from scratch. I intended to keep as much config as possible in git with scripts to install the packages I use.
[15:35] <Mooncairn> Okay, I'm fully booted up and logged in. I did rename the fonts files with a .bak extension. One of the ttf files was invalid anyway. It had the diagnostic output from either curl or wget (I forgot which I used) rather than the actual font data.
[15:35] <Mooncairn> First thing off the bat is I get another system warning/crash.
[15:36] <Mooncairn> "aptitude-curses has stopped unexpectedly"
[15:36] <Mooncairn> I hope that's just left over from Monday. I did see that error about aptitude-curses in the syslog.
[15:38] <Mooncairn> I'm going to assume that's a left over for the moment.
[15:39] <Mooncairn> I'm thinking about sliding the new font(s) back into place and see if everything goes to hell again.
[15:40] <Mooncairn> Ok, that was wishful thinking. Ubuntu is reporting errors with gnome-shell.
[15:44] <Mooncairn> SIGSEGV, strangely my desktop is still functioning (so far).
[15:50] <Mooncairn> syslog and timestamp on the bogus ttf file shows that the creation of the file and things going to hell started within the same 60 second period.
[15:53] <Mooncairn> So, correlation but not necessarily causation? The problems noted by gnome-shell started about two minutes afterward. I had had enough time at that point to search duckduckgo for information on signal 7 (BUS).
[15:53] <Mooncairn> Perhaps as much as 6 minutes, actually.
[15:56] <Mooncairn> The "out of memory" errors are exclusively related to the fonts. I can find no other OOM messages in Ubuntu's logs or in my old Debian install's logs.
[16:01] <Mooncairn> Ok, it's definitely the fonts.
[16:02] <Mooncairn> I just slid one of the TTF files back into place, changed gnome-terminal's font to it, and BOOM...
[16:07] <Mooncairn> The gnome-shell errors on Monday still don't necessarily make sense, though. The ttf file that gnome-terminal blew up on today had been installed a full 13 minutes before things went sideways.
[16:10] <Mooncairn> Okay, I guess all I can do right now is to keep monitoring things w/o the offending font files and hope the fonts were the problem. (I'm not sure if I fully believe that, but it's all I have right now w/o further evidence.)
[16:11] <Mooncairn> Thanks for bearing with me on this.
[16:16] <cmaloney> No problem.
[16:17] <cmaloney> Hoping that fixes things
[16:17] <cmaloney> OOM and corrupted files are no fun to diagnose
[18:45] <Mooncairn> Okay,
[18:46] <Mooncairn> Reinstalled the fonts and installed the remaining, this time downloading through Firefox and then installing through GNOME's font manager rather than manually downloading to ~/.local/share/fonts.
[18:47] <Mooncairn> So far, so good. gnome-terminal has not crashed.
[19:22] <cmaloney> nice


[06:46] <Kilos> brrr
[10:13] <mazal> Afternoon all
[10:16] <Kilos> hi mazal
[14:21] <Squirm> Hello
[14:26] <GnikLlort> ola
[15:36] <squish102> so i wonder if slack will replace irc
[15:44] <squish102> I guess there is already an ubuntu-za.slack.za channel :)
[16:58] <Kilos> hmm...
[17:00] <Squirm> squish102: really?
[17:00] <Kilos> i will stay on irc
[17:14] <Kilos> MaNI  you here?
[17:16] <MaNI> sort of
[17:53] <Kilos> i was gonna sk something about repacking batteries but not now. thinkpad taking kde fine so far
[17:53] <Kilos> i found a place that repacks for R634 i think
[17:54] <Kilos> http://www.laserelectronics.co.za/laptop_battery_repacking.html
[17:54] <Kilos> thats good if they do a good job. less than half the cost of a new on
[17:54] <Kilos> one
[18:08] <Kilos> hi Cryterion
[18:16] <Cryterion> Hi
[18:25] <Cryterion> anyone got a way to reverse this "GP = (SP - CP) / SP", need SP as the result with GP and CP as known figures?
[18:43] <Squirm> Cryterion: umm
[18:44] <Squirm> GP*SP=(SP-CP)
[18:45] <Squirm> SP=(SP-CP)/GP
[18:45] <Squirm> Then I'm a little confused
[18:46] <Squirm> lol
[18:46] <Squirm> nvm
[18:46] <Squirm> L.
[18:46] <Squirm> :/
[18:46] <Squirm> My maths has failed me
[18:47] <Cryterion> Yeah, same, prob is there is the 2 SP in it
[18:48] <Cryterion> It somehow need an Exponent in it
[18:48] <MaNI> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A+%3D+%28B+-+C%29+%2F+B+solve+for+B :p
[18:49] <Cryterion> Can get close on the a low GP number, 1 works, but reverse calc of anything higher gets further away
[18:49] <Squirm> MaNI: That's an awesome website
[18:50] <MaNI> too lazy to try solve it :p
[18:50] <Squirm> I was looking online for the solution too
[18:53] <MaNI> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=A+%3D+%28B+-+C%29+%2F+B+graph - cool graph :p
[18:53] <Cryterion> MaNI, that work doesn't work
[18:54] <Cryterion> reverse gives my like 70% with a start at 50%
[18:54] <MaNI> yeah I think it made some bad assumptions that probably won't hold up
[18:55] <Cryterion> Yip, they don't seem to
[18:56] <Cryterion> In my formula GP is %, SP and CP are numbers
[18:57] <MaNI> hrm
[19:01] <Cryterion> If I do it as normal numbers in a spreadsheet, result SP goes down if GP goes up, whereas SP should go up exponentially to GP
[19:02] <Cryterion> Only seems exact if GP at 1
[19:05] <Cryterion> Figured out my mistake, got it working, thanks for the link MaNI
[19:05] <MaNI> heh
[19:33] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:03] <miles> hmm...
[20:03] <miles> t410 works
[20:04] <miles> so far everything works
[20:07] <miles> spose i can sleep now
[20:07] <Squirm> Lol
[20:08] <Squirm> Hey miles
[20:08] <miles> oh my still gotta find the real  me
[20:08] <miles> hi Squirm
[20:09] <miles> i forgot where
[20:10] <Kilos> whew i forgot how much work a fresh install is
[20:13] <Kilos> well now just to sort a battery then they an loadshed
[20:13] <Kilos> they say heavy load shedding tomorrow
[20:19] <MaNI> heavy load shedding and heavy rain, going to be a great day
[20:20] <Kilos> ok night all and superfly
[20:20] <superfly> night Kilos
[20:33] <Squirm> ThatGraemeGuy: ?
[20:49] <Squirm> Sorted :P
[20:59] <squish102> hmmm, I have an old t410
[20:59] <squish102> so ubuntu works on it?
[20:59] <squish102> or just wait for win 10
[21:00] <squish102> is win 10 lightweight, or have they ligthned it up any
[21:04] <MaNI> I hope they finally update notepad
[22:43] <ThatGraemeGuy> eh?
[22:44] <ThatGraemeGuy> oh, bit late :D
[23:01] <squish102> or at least if they patch notepad, you don't need to reboot afterwards
[23:02] <squish102> anyone archived a FB group? I need to actively get the posts in a group and record the details.


[17:01] <sir54> hi
[17:09] <sir54> hi pavlushka
[17:10] <pavlushka> Hi Sir sir54
[17:10] <sir54> How ya doing?
[17:11] <pavlushka> I am doing good sir54 , how about you?
[17:12] <sir54> I am good
[17:12] <sir54> Glas its finally Fridy


[01:00] <knome> be back tomorrow; have fun
[01:35] <bluesabre> well, that's not pretty
[01:35] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305129
[01:35] <bluesabre> indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard without an icon, ibus
[01:36] <bluesabre> maybe tomorrow's iso will look a bit better
[01:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: /var/crash/
[03:11] <OvenWerk1> Unit193: remove the files inside or the whole directory?
[04:43] <juanmontoya> Hello, has anyone considered changing the default colors of the xcfe4-terminal? Some colors are too dark to be readable... :/
[04:47] <Unit193> OvenWerk1: That was to remove bothering of crashes, the files there.
[05:11] <OvenWerk1> Unit193: Thankyou. Yes that helps.
[05:11] <Unit193> Heh, sure.
[05:12] <OvenWerk1> (switching the nvidia driver to the open one seems to help more)
[05:13] <Unit193> apport-cli can show you them.
[05:38] <jhenke> good morning
[05:54] <jhenke> morning elfy
[05:55] <elfy> hi jhenke
[06:02] <jhenke> i guess most of the people here are still away/sleeping?
[06:03] <elfy> that and saturday :)
[06:03] <jhenke> well I had a nice little nephew waking me at 6:30 am ^^
[06:04] <jhenke> just being courious whether todays image will be clean of those extra indicators
[06:05] <elfy> I'd not count on it
[06:06] <jhenke> I have a netbook here, where I would want to install xubuntu (was my sisters running WinXP), but as it does not accept booting from USB sticks, I want a "clean" image to install it
[06:07] <elfy> I understand - all you can do is zsync ~11:00UTC and see
[06:08] <elfy> the image is 'usually' new at ~10ish
[06:08] <jhenke> yep, just still hoping it would work today ;)
[06:08] <elfy> :)
[06:12] <Unit193> elfy: Could check manifests.
[06:13] <elfy> oh yea - those things
[06:13] <elfy> not sure when that would be changed though
[06:14] <elfy> current doesn't have blueman
[09:11] <knome> aiui, there is NO NEW IMAGES unless we request a respin
[09:48] <knome> slickymaster, have you had bug 1196625 in a long time?
[09:51] <olbi> I have still this bug from time to time :]
[09:53] <knome> wondering if the assignee is really working on it, has 2 karma on launchpad and no memberships
[09:53] <knome> sorry, 5 lp karma...
[09:59] <olbi> why installer is still in english and my own lang when I choose my lang? there should be only my own lang cause translation was done on launchpad before the beta 2 :/
[10:05] <knome> how much before?
[10:06] <olbi> a month?
[10:07] <olbi> i'm trying to localize Xubuntu as much as possible but it is sometime very hard to do this :/
[10:08] <knome> polish is your language? i see 28 untranslated strings
[10:11] <olbi> wtf? there were translations and it's gone :/
[10:12] <olbi> what is going on with this launchpad :/
[10:13] <knome> did you do the translations before we did the call for translations? it's likely that you have translated old strings.
[10:13] <jhenke> knome I thought there are new images generated once a day? hence daily image?
[10:13] <knome> jhenke, not during RC
[10:13] <jhenke> :(
[10:13] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate
[10:14] <jhenke> "During the week leading up to the final release, the images produced are all considered release candidates" ?
[10:14] <jhenke> sounds like daily images to me, or is something tricking my mind right now?
[10:14] <knome> is
[10:14] <knome> " In an ideal world, the first one would end up being the final release..."
[10:15] <knome> the idea of a release candidate is "do not change it if it works"
[10:15] <jhenke> well I do not want to argue about it
[10:15] <jhenke> well ours did not work as expected yesterday...
[10:15] <knome> no problem really
[10:15] <knome> yes, and still wouldn't, so we haven't yet rebuild
[10:15] <knome> we can do that when we need to, though
[10:16] <jhenke> okay then I guess it makes no sense to test the new one (which according to the website was build just some minutes ago)
[10:16] <jhenke> 12-Apr-2014 10:05
[10:17] <knome> well it "always" makes sense...
[10:17] <knome> there might be other things landed that might have regressions
[10:17] <knome> just not realistic to expect unfixed things to be fixed in that ISO :)
[10:18] <jhenke> my hope was that the dependecy chane would be solved by the time the ISO was generated
[10:18] <jhenke> you know, optimism ;)
[10:18] <knome> i doubt so...
[10:20] <jhenke> well I'll test it any way then, the most useful thing I can do right now :(
[10:20] <brainwash> so, do you we already need to write a SRU report for merge requests? non-critical issues ofc
[10:21] <knome> anything that will be a SRU will need a SRU report at some point
[10:21] <brainwash> mmh, some point
[10:21] <brainwash> so we've already passed that point, right?
[10:21] <knome> well, before it's landing as a SRU :P
[10:21] <knome> that question both makes and doesn't make sense
[10:22] <jhenke> I think so, the release candidate mail sounded like everything is a SRU now, except release blocking bugs
[10:22] <knome> yep.
[10:22] <brainwash> we don't have any blockers :)
[10:22] <knome> so things that won't go into the release, are SRU material
[10:23] <knome> for those, you will need SRU reports
[10:23] <brainwash> ok
[10:30] <knome> upgrading to trusty
[10:30] <knome> mrh
[10:38] <starrats> good morning everyone
[10:51] <brainwash> bug 1306917
[10:51] <brainwash> can anyone confirm this?
[10:54] <brainwash> knome: can we move bug 1270894 to 14.04.1?
[10:59] <brainwash> patched abiword available from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
[11:00] <knome> brainwash, can and should.
[11:00] <brainwash> do I need to create an extra bug report to request an update of abiword via debdiff?
[11:01] <brainwash> or can I simply attach it to one of the existing reports (3)?
[11:01] <knome> i... don't know the answer to that question :P
[11:01] <knome> i guess you'd need a sponsorshhip bug
[11:01] <brainwash> I think so too
[11:01] <knome> which could be one of the existing bugs, but would be cleaner if it wasn't, since it fixes multiple issues
[11:01] <brainwash> well, first it needs to be tested
[11:02] <brainwash> I don't want to attach a bad debdiff :)
[11:02] <brainwash> elfy: please test https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
[11:03] <brainwash> you can find the bug numbers in the PPA description
[11:03] <knome> i'm not sure if those bugs would be critical enough to warrant a final freeze exception...
[11:04] <knome> the crash on exporting PDF is semi-nasty
[11:04] <brainwash> sru then
[11:04] <brainwash> quick sru
[11:04] <knome> there is no quick SRU... it's .1 in 6 months
[11:04] <knome> we can push them to updates though
[11:04] <brainwash> yes, update
[11:05] <knome> yes, sure
[11:05] <brainwash> but it's that a sru?
[11:05] <knome> not necessarily
[11:05] <knome> a SRU means the change will be on the next ISO
[11:06] <knome> withtout a need to upgrade your system
[11:06] <brainwash> ah, that's fine
[11:06] <knome> and it will also be landing for *everybody*
[11:06] <brainwash> so it will stay broken on the live cd
[11:06] <knome> not just those who opted in for extra updates
[11:06] <knome> for 14.04, yes...
[11:06] <knome> (unless we want to argue it getting a final freeze exception)
[11:07] <brainwash> which triggers a respin, correct?
[11:08] <knome> it doesn't trigger one, but obviously we'd like one
[11:08] <knome> but we will need one for the bluetooth stuff.
[11:08] <brainwash> a respin for abiword alone is overkill
[11:08] <knome> sure.
[11:08] <knome> but that might be an indicator it's overkill to break the final freeze with it
[11:10] <knome> brainwash, for future convenience, can you drop in the bug titles to the PPA description along with their numbers
[11:11] <knome> brainwash, i'm thinking the PDF export bug might warrant the exception.
[11:11] <knome> and while we do that, we could land the other two
[11:12] <knome> but i'd poke around in -release and ask what people think
[11:13] <knome> also, i should be able to test the PPA soonish
[11:19] <knome> 14:15  knome: what's the general thought about fixing a low, but annoying bug along with a high/critical bug during the final freeze?
[11:20] <knome> 14:15  knome: (in the same package)
[11:20] <knome> 14:19  cjwatson: I'd probably be OK with it as long as the diff was clear and we could make a good estimate from it that the risk is low
[11:23] <knome> brainwash, bug 1292290 ?
[11:51] <brainwash> knome: well, it's a bug I can confirm
[11:51] <knome> but not triage? :|
[11:52] <brainwash> no, but maybe fix if I take a look at the source :D
[11:52] <knome> i could approve that as late fix...
[11:53] <knome> if it really is as the bug says, and is impacting many users (which i'm not sure of)
[11:56] <brainwash> there is also bug 1303404
[11:56] <brainwash> and maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/migrate-kb-shortcuts
[11:57] <knome> mhm..
[11:57] <brainwash> they have changed <control> to <primary> in 4.11
[11:58] <knome> the merge would make sense, but again, final freeze...
 should work fine, but once you hit the "reset keybinds" button, it will also add the <primary> version of the keybind
[11:59] <knome> hmh
[11:59] <knome> that's a low-priority issue then
[11:59] <brainwash> this needs some time to fix
[11:59] <knome> it's... a bit annoying, but not a huge issue imo
[11:59] <brainwash> all 3 issues I mean
[11:59] <knome> talking about the last one
[11:59] <brainwash> yes
[11:59] <knome> sicne it only happens when you are at that dialog, it's barely a problem :)
[12:00] <knome> and in a way, it doesn't make as much sense to land the fix for .1... :|
[12:03] <jhenke> ahh, yes now that you mention that explains some behaviour when changing keybindings
[12:03] <brainwash> we need to forward it upstream at least
[12:04] <knome> sure
[12:08] <brainwash> so there won't be any fix before release
[12:08] <knome> if there is a fix for the two bugs, i'm ok to approve those, but the migration stuff, nah
[12:09] <knome> brb, booting to trusty side of things!
[12:10] <bluesabre> hey guys
[12:11] <bluesabre> has anybody looked at why indicator-keyboard and indicator-datetime seem to be in the latest nightlies?
[12:12] <bluesabre> or do I have a project now?
[12:13] <jhenke> it was assumed they came via the dependecy chain, as gnome-bluetooth was pulled in and with it gnome-control-center and unity-control-center
[12:19] <knome> hmm... not able to login graphically
[12:20] <bluesabre> ah
[12:23] <bluesabre> fun
[12:23] <bluesabre> remove indicator-datetime indicator-keyboard
[12:23] <bluesabre> installs gnome-control-center
[12:23] <bluesabre> :\
[12:24] <bluesabre> so the dependencies need to be tweaked
[12:24] <bluesabre> anybody looking into this currently?
[12:24] <bluesabre> is this something cyphermox was looking at?
[12:24] <jhenke> bluesabre I think we need to look into that once gnome-bluetooth is gone
[12:24] <jhenke> I think so
[12:25] <bluesabre> ok, so we are removing gnome-bluetooth then?
[12:26] <jhenke> afaik the agreed solution is to demote it from recommend to suggest on network-manager-gnome
[12:27] <jhenke> that should stop pulling it into the default install
[12:47] <elfy> brainwash: confirm that fixes those 3 abiword bugs
[12:50] <elfy> apparently does so for bug 1054315
[12:58] <brainwash> elfy: thanks
[12:58] <brainwash> the linked report is marked as invalid
[13:01] <elfy> no idea why - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen - just that it got marked invalid ;)
[13:01] <elfy> it might have been that guy wandering around making vague pronouncements on our bugs :p
[13:06] <knome> hmm, i'm having problems getting lightdm to run on upgrade from 13.10
[13:06] <bluesabre> that's unusual
[13:06] <knome> o'rly? :P
[13:06] <bluesabre> anything in the logs?
[13:07] <knome> it's probably related to xrandr not being able to open any display..
[13:07] <bluesabre> O.o
[13:07] <knome> can see plymouth when i don't use the nvidia driver
[13:07] <bluesabre> seems like you should have answered elfy's calls for testing ;)
[13:07] <knome> but it just loads infinitely
[13:07] <knome> hey, production machines!
[13:08] <bluesabre> :D
[13:09] <bluesabre> maybe install the nvidia proprietary drivers, and run nvidia-xconfig?
[13:09] <knome> i *just* did that
[13:09] <knome> but i'm pretty sure that won't fix it
[13:09] <knome> i've tried with a veeeery similar xorg file and the proprietary drivers installed
[13:09] <knome> jockey-text is a joke
[13:10] <knome> it never does anything
[13:10] <knome> i'm just it is just sleep(random)
[13:10] <elfy> pebkac
[13:11] <brainwash> elfy: bug 1306905
[13:11] <brainwash> "Since today's daily update,..."
[13:11] <knome> elfy, feel free to prove me wrong and point where the problem is...
[13:12] <elfy> between the keyboard and the chair - that's the bkac bit :p
[13:13] <knome> yes, and what is that problem?
[13:13] <elfy> :p
[13:14] <elfy> try esc and see if it's hanging at nvidia-prime
[13:15] <knome> that says ok.. persistenced daemon says fail
[13:15] <elfy> not seen that in my travels
[13:15] <knome> "starting ligthdm display manager"  -> fail
[13:16] <knome> "starting send an event to indicate plymouth is up"  -> fail
[13:24] <elfy> brainwash: I have no idea what that bug report even means
[13:25] <brainwash> the confirmation dialog (ok or cancel + 30sec timeout)
[13:25] <elfy> and that means just as much
[13:26] <elfy> what confirmation button in panel configuration says that?
[13:26] <brainwash> action button
[13:27] <elfy> ?
[13:27] <brainwash> top right corner (old panel layout)
[13:27] <brainwash> the thingy with your name
[13:27] <elfy> oh
[13:28] <elfy> action plugin
[13:28] <brainwash> O.O
[13:28] <brainwash> :D
[13:28] <brainwash> well, this particular user has reported some "bugs" which I cannot confirm at all
[13:28] <elfy> right
[13:29] <elfy> I might understand why - hang on I'll comment
[13:30] <elfy> I thought your volman thing was up the kibosh this morning - following updates - EVERYTHING including reboot wanted a password - once I rebooted all was ok again
[13:31] <elfy> suspend from there works
[13:32] <elfy> fine - and now that I've gotten used to it in whiskermenuI see that I could have had buttons on the panel
[13:32] <elfy> knome: I can't find anything re that lightdm issue of yours
[13:34] <bluesabre> knome: what happens if you delete your existing Xorg.conf?
[13:36]  * bluesabre works on getting rid of gnome-bluetooth
[13:39] <knome> bluesabre, nothing.
[13:40] <bluesabre> :\
[13:40] <knome> bluesabre, well, when i deleted that and the nvidia driver, i got to plymoith
[13:40] <knome> *plymouth
[13:40] <knome> which kept on loading infinitely
[13:40] <bluesabre> whats the graphics card?
[13:41] <knome> nvidia geforce gtx 560 ti
[13:43] <bluesabre> yup, no idea
[13:43] <knome> yup
[13:43] <bluesabre> since you did an upgrade, do you still have the old kernels installed?
[13:43] <knome> not, removed them
[13:43] <knome> but i could reinstall them
[13:44]  * knome facepalm
[13:44] <bluesabre> I'd try that, otherwise...
[13:44] <bluesabre> #xubuntu is the support channel
[13:44] <bluesabre> ;)
[13:44] <knome> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf didn't specify user session or greeter
[13:44] <bluesabre> ah
[13:44] <bluesabre> that's lame
[13:44] <knome> i read that elfy had that problem before
[13:44] <elfy> that's gone
[13:45] <knome> elfy, really? how did it occur to me today then... :)
[13:45] <knome> that fixes it...
[13:46] <elfy> look in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/
[13:46] <elfy> 60-light ... blah I think is where greeter is specified now
[13:47] <knome> yeah.. but to be exact
[13:47] <knome> lightdm.conf had them set to null
[13:47] <knome> eg user_session=
[13:47] <knome> would the .d files still overwrite?
[13:48] <elfy> knome: here I have no /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf at all - try # them or renaming them
[13:48] <knome> well i just specified them
[13:48] <knome> and that fixes the issue as i said
[13:48] <knome> i'll go and enable nvidia now
[13:48] <knome> i can look at the lightdm conf after that
[13:48] <elfy> didn't see you say it was fixed
[13:48] <knome> 16:45  knome: that fixes it...
[13:49] <knome> i wouldn't have any clue to look there unless i found your forum thread
[13:49] <elfy> oh - I thought that was a sarky comment to my 'that's gone' lol
[13:49] <knome> so indirect thanks ;)
[13:49] <elfy> forum's are rubbish apparently :D
[13:49] <knome> no, i'm hardly snarky/joking when i'm debugging
[13:49] <elfy> :)
[13:50] <knome> forum usability is still rubbish ;)
[13:50] <elfy> not for me :)
[13:51] <knome> yeah, i can understand and respect different people liking different methods
[13:51] <elfy> I can too - and do use different methods
[13:51] <knome> yep
[13:51] <knome> i just can't deal with the slow pace of forums
[13:51] <knome> well, it's probably not slow paced all the time
[13:51] <knome> but it's somehow.. so scattered :|
[13:52] <elfy> I really need to try and get my head around what's gone on with lightdm
[13:52] <knome> maybe you should ask bluesabre
[13:52] <elfy> I try hard to catch xubuntu stuff on my forum and make sure it is prefixed with xubuntu
[13:52] <knome> yeah, but even that isn't the problem :)
[13:52] <elfy> nope - it can be slow
[13:53] <knome> by scattered i mean that even if the forum was perfectly organized (which it never is), and all posts were tagged, you would still have to dig for stuff consistently
[13:54] <knome> ok, confess, WHO SWITCHED MY MONITOR ORDER
[13:54] <knome> left is virtually right and right is virtually left
[13:55] <knome> one more reboot...
[13:56] <elfy> bert was in charge of switching monitors
[13:57] <knome> i've been speedy
[13:57] <knome> it never occurred to me that nvidia-settings would be in the... settings manager
[13:57] <elfy> knome: yep - I use a search engine for buntu generally - usually works
[13:57]  * knome facepalms with a splat
[13:57] <elfy> knome: all sorts of things get left in there ...
[13:58] <knome> i even made the right hand side monitor the primary one
[13:58] <knome> which has been bugging me since we moved here in mid-december
[13:58] <bluesabre> I don't know what happens with lightdm
[13:58] <bluesabre> we bug robert if there's an issue
[13:58] <bluesabre> s/we/ochosi
[13:58] <knome> my favorite CLI command
[13:59] <knome> sudo apt-get purge apport
[13:59] <bluesabre> :)
[14:00] <elfy> back later
[14:01] <elfy> bluesabre: it's not so much issue - just wth has been moved about :)
[14:01] <bluesabre> also, I don't get that either ;)
[14:01] <bluesabre> knome: is cyphermox leading the charge on bluetooth?
[14:05] <elfy> bluesabre: I'm glad it's not just me then :p
[14:08] <knome> bluesabre, yes, but please make sure removing it helps with removing stuff you want out
[14:09] <knome> elfy, what was the bug for the lightdm issue?
[14:12] <elfy> knome: my one?
[14:12] <knome> i found it, bug 1267442
[14:12] <elfy> yea that's it - back later
[14:13] <bluesabre> I love the fact that nvidia-prime actually works in trusty
[14:14] <knome> bluesabre, i like the prime messages:
[14:14] <knome> ** Message: PRIME: No offloading required. Abort
[14:14] <knome> ** Message: PRIME: is it supported? no
[14:14] <bluesabre> ah
[14:15] <bluesabre> well, it works for my new laptop with the haswell/nvidia combo
[14:15] <bluesabre> :)
[14:15] <knome> mh
[14:18] <bluesabre> ok, tested a package with gnome-bluetooth moved to suggests, it seems to work
[14:19] <bluesabre> reinstalling the existing package adds these things:
[14:19] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305191
[14:20] <bluesabre> installing the new package:
[14:21] <knome> too lazy to copypaste?
[14:21] <bluesabre> vm doesnt have extensions installed
[14:21] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305192
[14:22] <knome> copypaste to a file in vm, cat file | pastebinit
[14:22] <brainwash> mmh, I guess that we know that already
[14:23] <bluesabre> anyway, if cyphermox is handling it, cool, otherwise, let me know if I need to bug the sponsors
[14:23] <brainwash> he said so
[14:23] <brainwash> but it takes soooo long :)
[14:24] <brainwash> where can we even track the status?
[14:24] <knome> bluesabre, he is, but stay on your toes just in case
[14:24] <knome> brainwash, please stop whining
[14:24] <bluesabre> lol
[14:24] <bluesabre> I'll push a merge request tomorrow morning if I don't hear anything
[14:25] <knome> bluesabre, it involves studio and mythbuntu seed, so careful! :)
[14:25] <bluesabre> ah
[14:28] <brainwash> but ibus is not involved?
[14:28] <bluesabre> one sec
[14:29] <brainwash> or did you forget to remove it manually
[14:29] <bluesabre> forgot to remove it
[14:29] <bluesabre> 1. new package does not pull ibus
[14:30] <bluesabre> 2. old (current) package does
[14:30] <bluesabre> so yes, fixes ibus as well
[14:30] <brainwash> ok
[14:36] <bluesabre> so, installation diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7239825/
[14:37] <bluesabre> which is silly
[14:37] <bluesabre> :D
[14:46] <knome> bluesabre, pretty much...
[14:55] <bluesabre> besides that issue, and abiword's zaniness, the release looks awesome
[14:56] <bluesabre> I am so ready to move on to libreoffice
[14:56] <bluesabre> going to really push for that next release
[14:56] <knome> hmm...
[14:56] <bluesabre> since abiword and gnumeric are some of the worst-designed gtk apps there are
[14:56] <knome> that would make the ISO over a gig though
[14:56] <knome> what about just dropping them altogether?
[14:57] <bluesabre> I wouldn't mind that personally
[14:57] <knome> well the next big target is 16.04
[14:58] <bluesabre> right
[14:58] <knome> do (most) people really do their office stuff locally and not in the cloud in 2016?
[14:58] <knome> well i don't know, probably nobody knows
[14:58] <bluesabre> plenty of opinions on that ofc
[14:58] <knome> but i would say dropping abiword and gnumeric will make *more* sense *after* 14.04
[14:58] <bluesabre> right-o
[14:58] <knome> regardless if it's (still) the optimal choice or not
[14:58] <knome> but i don't know
[14:59] <knome> i'm not the one who decides...
[14:59] <knome> 5 days and i'm free!
[14:59] <bluesabre> :'(
[14:59] <knome> we need to keep rolling forward
[15:00] <bluesabre> let's have some fun and put Unit193 in charge through the next LTS
[15:04] <brainwash> bug 1306952
[15:06] <bluesabre> I'll take that for a spin
[15:09] <knome> bluesabre, please also ask for an ACK from the release team
[15:09] <bluesabre> of course
[15:09] <knome> i've asked about that yesterday and cjwatson said he'd probably ACK it if the diff was clean
[15:09] <bluesabre> brainwash: works well
[15:10] <bluesabre> knome: abiword or bluetooth?
[15:10] <knome> abiword
[15:10] <knome> i've no reason to think the bluetooth issue wouldn't be approved either
[15:11] <knome> only one of the abiword bugs were *actually* critical enough to be worth acking a final freeze exception
[15:11] <knome> the thing i asked from -release was if we could slip in a few low-prio bugs as well
[15:12] <brainwash> what about https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ?
[15:12] <brainwash> or https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling
[15:12] <brainwash> is it worth to release an update after release?
[15:13] <knome> if volman actually fixes stuff (as it seems to), we could try to push it in
[15:13] <knome> and fast... to be done with one respin.
[15:13] <brainwash> indeed
[15:14] <knome> untiling? i'm not so sure if it's final freeze exception material
[15:14] <brainwash> the xfwm4 one hae very low priority
[15:14] <knome> and it's another package
[15:14] <brainwash> has
[15:14] <knome> so i'd consider that something for .1
[15:14] <knome> or just regular updates
[15:14] <bluesabre> ^
[15:15] <knome> linked the branch to the .1 blueprint
[15:15] <brainwash> ok, I just imaging people being very annoyed about this, tiling seems to quite popular and people surely want the original window size back after untiling
[15:15] <bluesabre> yeah, its an annoyance, but not a showstopper
[15:16] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate says it clearly
[15:16] <brainwash> but maybe that's not the case, there isn't even a lp report addressing this :D
[15:16] <knome> "... changes ... will only be allowed for very high-priority bugs that might justify delaying the release."
[15:16] <knome> fixing untiling?
[15:16] <knome> naaaah
[15:17] <brainwash> as update after release
[15:17] <brainwash> but before .1
[15:17] <bluesabre> I love how to-the-point that is
[15:17] <bluesabre> brainwash: yes
[15:17] <bluesabre> its a bugfix
[15:17] <knome> and seriously, adding an icon to the abiword about dialog? hahah.
[15:17] <knome> DELAY THE RELEASE, WE ARE MISSING AN ICON!
[15:17] <brainwash> :P
[15:17] <knome> but yeah, if it can slip in with other high/critical stuff..
[15:17] <brainwash> why not include it
[15:18] <bluesabre> :)
[15:18] <bluesabre> it could be critical
[15:18] <bluesabre> have you seen some linux reviews?
[15:18] <bluesabre> we have more wallpapers now
[15:18] <knome> brainwash, yes, let's include it.
[15:18] <bluesabre> our userbase is going to return!
[15:18] <knome> bluesabre, surely... :)
[15:18] <brainwash> more wallpapers, but no bottom panel... so
[15:19] <bluesabre> actually, now we don't have a screensaver
[15:19] <bluesabre> people are going to FREAK
[15:19] <brainwash> oh snap
[15:19] <knome> yes, the default desktop doesn't look like the desktop of the future
[15:19] <knome> ...that's how windows XP looked, btw
[15:20] <knome> yes, some of the reactions to dropping xscreensaver have been... interesting
[15:22] <bluesabre> ok, the patches look sane
[15:22] <bluesabre> going to make a branch and then bug the release folks
[15:23] <brainwash> bluesabre: can we include https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed for .1? this implements the "zoomed" resize style properly, so the smooth greeter -> desktop transition works every time without any background changes
[15:23] <bluesabre> link it
[15:24] <brainwash> currently it scales the background correctly, but does not move it to the center of the screen
[15:24] <bluesabre> I've never had any issues with it myself
[15:24] <knome> brainwash, sounds like update stuff to me
[15:24] <knome> but we should probably sit down with it
[15:24] <knome> and read policies and ask about conventions
[15:24] <brainwash> it's an improvement
[15:24] <knome> and then see what we want to push as SRU's
[15:24] <brainwash> not a bug fix
[15:24] <bluesabre> its a bugfix for the greeter
[15:24] <brainwash> alright
[15:25] <brainwash> how is this a bug fix?
[15:25] <bluesabre> zoomed isn't right if it doesn't center
[15:25] <brainwash> but no one noticed
[15:25] <brainwash> so it worked like expected
[15:25] <knome> "no one noticed, can't be a bug"
[15:25] <bluesabre> well, its always worked right for me
[15:25] <knome> no, that's incorrect
[15:25] <knome> if nobody noticed a bug that got fixed, it was still a bug
[15:25] <bluesabre> but if there is an instance where it doesn't work
[15:25] <bluesabre> we should fix it
[15:26] <brainwash> if you chose a wallpaper with correct aspect ratio then you won't notice
[15:26] <bluesabre> create a bug for lightdm-gtk-greeter
[15:26] <bluesabre> and link your branch
[15:26] <bluesabre> :)
[15:26] <brainwash> ok :D
[15:26] <bluesabre> there's another bug I need to fix for the greeter this weekend
[15:26] <intekulan> audio indicator is back, I love you people :D
[15:26] <bluesabre> so I will probably roll that in with it
[15:26] <knome> Stable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs.
[15:26] <knome> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
[15:27] <bluesabre> Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
[15:27] <brainwash> bluesabre: well, you should test my branch first, pick some background picture with strange aspect ratio
[15:28] <bluesabre> brainwash: I'll take a vertical selfie and set it
[15:28] <bluesabre> :D
[15:28] <bluesabre> I don't merge without testing ;)
[15:28] <knome> +1
[15:28] <bluesabre> and I almost always tweak other people's fixes
[15:28] <knome> though i'm sure your selfie will break it, and your monitor
[15:28] <bluesabre> I'm finicky
[15:28] <knome> (and the camera)
[15:28] <bluesabre> knome: most likely
[15:29] <bluesabre> better take a picture of the cat instead
[15:29] <bluesabre> look at the adorable kitty http://www.raydavisphotography.com/2014/04/10/the-simplest-answer-is-to-act/
[15:32] <bluesabre> bah
[15:32] <bluesabre> abiword doesn't have an ubuntu branch
[15:35] <bluesabre> brainwash: have you poked #ubuntu-release yet?
[15:40] <bluesabre> added my poke
[16:06]  * knome goes testing menulibre
[16:08] <knome> bluesabre, the advanced tab when editing a menu item has weird font antialiasing
[16:11] <brainwash> bluesabre: why does the light-locker-settings window always appear in the bottom right corner when I open it?
[16:12] <brainwash> what prevents it from being centered?
[16:14] <brainwash> it seems to be placed relative to the settings manager window
[16:23] <knome> bluesabre, how do i make something appear under settings manager->other instead of sm->system (or any other place)
[16:23] <knome> hmm, i crashed menulibre...
[16:26] <knome> hmm, and now it keeps breaking my menu
[16:26] <knome> i think i touched the tralala
[16:26] <knome> and especially the dingdingdong
[16:26] <knome> of menulibre
[17:27] <knome> bluesabre, poke -release again
[18:04] <bluesabre> brainwash: there is a property that is not set
[18:04] <bluesabre> knome: dang you
[18:05] <bluesabre> settings manager->other would be
[18:05] <bluesabre> Settings -> Settings
[18:05] <bluesabre> just the top one
[18:17] <knome> hmm.
[18:23] <Unit193> knome: Also, let me help you with your favorite line: sudo apt-get purge apport whoopsie && sudo apt-get autoremove --purge   :P
[18:24] <knome> :P
[18:28] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1306999
[18:34] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1307000
[18:45] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1307002
[18:45] <knome> bluesabre, have fun!
[18:46] <knome>  InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.10 "Oneiric Ocelot" - Release amd64 (20111012)
[18:46] <knome> oh la la
[19:00] <jhenke> knome sounds like good engineering that it worked up to 14.04 :D
[19:00] <knome> it's been breaking with every upgrade
[19:00] <knome> more or less in nasty ways..
[19:01] <jhenke> I rather meant the whole system
[19:02] <Unit193> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110413.2)
[19:08] <jhenke> you win xD
[19:28] <kajair> hello, we should make a strong team for developing xubuntu. the number of people in meetings of developing it are almost 10
[19:28] <knome> yes... where have you been all these months? :)
[19:29] <knome> we can't force people to take part in meetings.
[19:29] <kajair> we dont force, we are showing this
[19:29] <kajair> i have been in that stupid xp
[19:29] <knome> who "we" ?
[19:30] <kajair> some peoples alike me
[19:30] <kajair> sorry for my poor english
[19:30] <knome> i don't understand your point... we need to get more people to attend the meetings?
[19:30] <knome> why?
[19:30] <Unit193> Coffee and donuts.
[19:30] <knome> wouldn't it be better to get more people hanging around that actually contribute to xubuntu?
[19:31] <kajair> yes
[19:31] <kajair> the point is so simple. developing free open source os
[19:31] <knome> right...
[19:31] <knome> so what kind of ideas do you have to motivate people to join us?
[19:32] <kajair> spread and ad. right?
[19:32] <knome> i'm asking you.
[19:32] <kajair> i dont/wont force anyone to use it
[19:32] <kajair> ok
[19:33] <kajair> i told. spreading newses and benefits and adverts
[19:33] <knome> what kind of news? where?
[19:33] <knome> what benefits? none of the developers are making any money out of xubuntu, how can we give users more "benefits" than the free OS?
[19:34] <knome> we have one flyer, "XP to xubuntu", ready, and another is work in progress
[19:34] <kajair> i sawed that
[19:34] <knome> the flyer is available at http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/, you can print and spread it.
[19:34] <knome> that would be http://xubuntu.org/products/ for the actual download links
[19:34] <kajair> the main goals is to spread xubuntu and develop
[19:34] <kajair> nothing else
[19:35] <knome> you said we need news and benefits. can you elaborate what that would practically mean?
[19:37] <kajair> so the new futures need to be thought
[19:37] <kajair> i cant tell you quickly
[19:37] <knome> you can take all the time you need, we will be here and listening
[19:38] <kajair> ill promise any ideas that i and my friends thought about xubuntu will tell you
[19:38] <kajair> *me
[19:38] <knome> we will have brainstorming time once we have actually first kicked the LTS out of the door...
[19:39] <kajair> so when will be meeting? 15 april?
[19:39] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings always has the next meeting time
[19:39] <kajair> ok thanks
[19:39] <knome> we won't be discussing brainstorming for the next release in that meeting though
[19:40] <kajair> ok
[19:42] <kajair> excuse me what is your profession mr knome?
[19:42] <knome> i'm an entrepreneur. i also happen to be the xubuntu project lead
[19:43] <kajair> good
[19:43] <kajair> ok. later
[19:45] <knome> lderan, you around?
[19:55] <brainwash> does setting a picture as wallpaper work via thunar's context menu?
[19:56] <brainwash> we've included a patch so it should work with xfdesktop 4.11, but...
[19:58] <jhenke> good night folks
[19:58] <brainwash> good night jhenke
[19:59] <brainwash> anyone here willing to test it?
[19:59] <knome> brainwash, worksforme in trusty
[20:00] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[20:02] <brainwash> it works for my 2nd user account
[20:02] <brainwash> default resize style is "scaled" =S
[20:03] <knome> hmm, for me i think it was what it was
[20:03] <knome> but that's minor anyway
[20:03] <knome> people can go and poke at it
[20:08] <brainwash> right, I prefer consistency
[20:09] <brainwash> "zoomed" everywhere :)
[20:10] <brainwash> sadly no one noticed that and reports it in time
[20:12] <brainwash> consistency helps in this case, because it does not break the smooth greeter -> desktop transition
[20:14] <brainwash> oh, little typo in my abiword changelog entry :)
[20:14] <brainwash> hopefully no one notices it :P
[20:15] <knome> Logan_, around?
[20:15] <knome> bluesabre, ACK from release team
[20:16] <Logan_> knome: somewhat
[20:16] <knome> Logan_, bug 1306952 needs uploading
[20:16] <knome> Logan_, we have an ACK from the release team to land it
[20:17] <knome> Logan_, are you able to get to it today?
[20:22] <Logan_> has it been tested?
[20:24] <knome> brainwash?
[20:24] <knome> brainwash, did you get tests from others in?
[20:39] <brainwash> knome: elfy did, bluesabre too I think
[20:39] <brainwash> and me
[20:42] <brainwash> Logan_: there is a small typo in the debian changelog, should be "..saving-as-pdf.patch" instead of "..saving-to-pdf.patch"
[20:44] <brainwash> but I guess that no one will care anyway
[20:52] <Logan_> brainwash: okay, I'll upload
[20:52] <brainwash> thanks :)
[21:07] <bluesabre0> yay, working in a library!
[21:11] <brainwash> psst
[21:14] <bluesabre0> what's up?
[21:45] <bluesabre0> drat, library closes early tonight
[22:18] <starrats> How does xfce4-mixer work if there is none in settings editor and what xfce4 is Trusty using?
[22:18] <knome> why would it need to be xfce4? try pavucontrol.
[22:19] <knome> oh, right, you're asking about the xfce4 version...
[22:19] <knome> well, it's mostly 4.10 with some cherry-picked 4.11 components
[22:19] <starrats> friend of mine has an xfce box
[22:19] <starrats> yes
[22:20] <starrats> and he has an xfce case not box
[22:20] <starrats> I believe it was 4.8
[22:24] <starrats> my friend is running xubuntu and he is looking the 'step size setting' that goes with the xfced4-mixer?
[22:24] <starrats> xfce4-mixer
[22:30] <lderan> knome, i am here now sorry was out
[22:31] <knome> lderan, that's ok
[22:31] <knome> lderan, how's the #done fixes coming along?
[22:32] <lderan> i submitted the merge request for it, will ask the alan if he has looked at it yet
[22:33] <starrats> does anyone know what happened to the 'volume step size setting' on xfce4-mixer?  where did it go or what replaced it?
[22:33] <knome> lderan, oh, okay, so it's that far :)
[22:33] <lderan> :)
[22:48] <olbi> hi guys, now when MS open source allmost all .NET Platform, we add Smuxi ass default irc client in next release? :D
[22:57] <Unit193> Uh, no.  That'd pull in the mono stack.  You can install smuxi in saucy or trusty now, what difference would any of that make anyway?
[23:04] <brainwash> exactly, installing all the mono libraries just to run one app.. no way


[05:47] <MrChrisDruif> Probably something that could be added to the FAQ but can I sideload Android apps like WhatsApp?
[05:48] <duflu> MrChrisDruif: Android apps are not supported, by any means
[05:49] <duflu> Normally you wouldn't document "things that don't work and are not intended to work", but I think this might be an exception. Because using the Android device and kernel people may well think Android apps would run
[05:55] <MrChrisDruif> Seeing that Android apps aren't the default on Sailfish OS but you can sideload them, I wouldn't be surprised if that question came up more frequently.
[06:17] <duflu> MrChrisDruif: Yeah I'm surprised too. Although maybe it does and I don't notice the IRC/web questions more often
[06:18] <duflu> I can't imagine a technical reason why someone can't some day add Android app support. It would be a significant effort though
[08:30] <Mikaela> SailfishOS people are unhappy about Android support as it takes resources from native apps and it's easier to get Android than native app to store and people won't bother making native apps as they can make Android apps. No idea where SailfishOS would be if the agreement with aliendalvik wasn't done though.
[08:46] <brunch875> I don't remember who told me before that the desktop yakketak comes with colorful smileys. Does it also come with easy means to type them?
[08:48] <sil2100> dpm: hey!
[08:48] <sil2100> dpm: we would need another package included in ubuntu-rtm/15.04 translations - sync-monitor
[08:49] <sil2100> It got recently pushed to translations.launchpad.net
[08:51] <dpm> sil2100, looking... I did see it when scanning for other missing translation templates after approving indicator-keyboard, but I didn't approve it as IIRC it was an old template from 2015
[08:53] <sil2100> dpm: yeah, I think upstream pushed the new one yesterday IIRC
[08:54] <dpm> sil2100, can you see this page? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/15.04/+source/sync-monitor/+imports
[08:54] <dpm> sil2100, it shows the 2015 upload, but not the most recent one
[08:58] <sil2100> hm
[08:58] <sil2100> I wonder where they pushed it?
[09:33] <sil2100> dpm_: so we need upstreams to push the pot files to the rtm series still, yes?
[09:33] <dpm_> sil2100, it'd be good to find out if a recent package upload happened and if that package contained the .pot file
[09:36] <sil2100> hm, ok so this happened so far:
[09:36] <sil2100> 21:14 < bfiller> renato, sil2100 : sync-monitor should now be configured properly in lp for translations
[09:36] <sil2100> 21:15 < bfiller> renato, please make sure to push the most updated .pot file to trunk directly
[09:36] <sil2100> 21:15 < renato> bfiller, it is up-to-date already
[09:36] <sil2100> Do we now need another package upload for sync-monitor then?
[09:49] <dpm> sil2100, it seems that the upstream project has been set up for translations, but probably the source package has not been set up for creating a .pot package on upload?
[12:03] <jgdx> mardy, ping
[12:10] <jgdx> zsombi, hey, after upgrading to yakkety, I'm having issues running apps locally. It used to work just fine on xenial. Have you experienced that?
[12:10] <jgdx> the bt says libubuntutoolkit is involved
[12:11] <zsombi> jgdx: afaik the yakkety is in pretty bad shape, we don't have stable version on 5.6 yet
[12:12] <jgdx> zsombi, okay, will look at downgrading
[12:14] <jgdx> or just buy a new laptop
[12:24] <mardy> jgdx: hi!
[12:25] <jgdx> mardy, hey, I'm debugging a crash in system settings, specifically in the About page. We load a plugin using pluginManager.getByName("foo") and then create a pagecomponent. This works fine once, but subsequent attempts will often lead to a crash.
[12:27] <jgdx> mardy, you're the author of that from what I can gather. Do you have any thoughts?
[12:28] <mardy> jgdx: I seem to remember that once kenvandine fixed a similar issue with a change which was apparently unrelated... let me see if I can find it
[12:28] <mardy> jgdx: it was some weird thing in QML
[12:28] <jgdx> mardy, this is also a qml runtime segfault
[12:28]  * kenvandine has a vague memory of this
[12:32] <jgdx> there are some qobject destruction via delete, that's the leading theory right now.
[12:32] <jgdx> (in the plugin manager)
[12:33] <kenvandine> jgdx, is this happening on vivid?
[12:33] <jgdx> kenvandine, yes
[12:33] <kenvandine> so we can't blame the new qt :/
[12:33] <jgdx> kenvandine, i think this is very old
[12:34] <kenvandine> jgdx, a crash in the about panel?
[12:34] <kenvandine> i haven't seen it crash
[12:34] <jgdx> kenvandine, bug 1617217
[12:35] <jgdx> kenvandine, the last comment is important
[12:36] <mardy> jgdx, kenvandine: could it have been rev 1521?
[12:37] <mardy> I remember that it was an apparent meaningless change, but it was actually fixing a crash
[12:37] <jgdx> on mako, a slower device than turbo, on which the bug can be reproduced reliably, it doesn't crash, but rather the pageComponent comes back falsy.
[12:38] <jgdx> mardy, let me try it
[12:39] <jgdx> mardy, lol, fixes it.
[12:40] <kenvandine> wow
[12:40] <kenvandine> mardy, good memory!
[12:40] <jgdx> jackprot
[12:40] <kenvandine> mardy remembers what i do better than i do :)
[12:41] <kenvandine> i vaguely remember fumbling around with this and being shocked at the fix
[12:41] <mardy> jgdx: now your task is to understand why that fixes it and document it ,-)
[12:41] <kenvandine> that's the challenge
[12:42] <jgdx> kenvandine, heeeey r1521 has to be amended
[12:42] <kenvandine> :)
[12:42] <mardy> kenvandine: it's surprising how you came up with this fix in the first place, it's certainly not something which would have ever crossed my mind :-)
[12:42] <jgdx> mardy, thanks btw
[12:42] <mardy> jgdx: yw :-)
[12:43] <kenvandine> my only thought is the qml runtime treated upPlugin or updatePage as a global or some nonsense
[12:44] <kenvandine> that was my theory at the time... but i had trouble believing that was actually the case
[12:44] <kenvandine> jgdx, it might be interesting to try only half the fix
[12:44] <kenvandine> like rename the page variable but not the plugin
[12:45] <kenvandine> and also try renaming the plugin variable and not the apge
[12:45] <kenvandine> page
[12:45] <kenvandine> narrow down the fix
[12:47] <jgdx> kenvandine, narrows it down to “plugin”'s absence leads to a crash
[12:48] <kenvandine> ok, so i guess upPlugin has some crazy scope
[12:48] <kenvandine> using that in multiple panels
[12:48] <kenvandine> i wonder if that's actually a qt bug
[12:58] <jgdx> mardy, kenvandine: an alternative fix is just keeping upPlugin in scope by assigning it to some element in the About page.
[12:58] <jgdx> so I think since pageComponent is the only thing we hold a reference to, some other things get collected by the engine, but not if we hold a ref to upPlugin
[13:01] <pmcgowan> bfiller, I am going to submit a branch to hide the character count option, its way complicated
[13:02] <bfiller> pmcgowan, ack
[13:04] <pmcgowan> bfiller, I will write up the design fwiw since now we understand it
[13:54] <rvr> popey: What's the url of your click backup site?
[13:56] <jgdx> rvr, it died/was moved (partially iirc) here: http://people.canonical.com/~alan/clicks/
[13:56] <rvr> jgdx: Thanks!
[14:16] <rvr> dpm: Hi. Did sil2100 ask you to add sync-monitor to ubuntu-rtm/15.04 series?
[14:17] <rvr> dpm: sil2100: Just read this https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1617916
[14:19] <sil2100> rvr: yes, I asked, but it seems we need something done by the sync-monitor upstream still
[14:20] <sil2100> renatu: ping
[14:21] <sil2100> renatu: is sync-monitor correctly configured to build the pot files and export them to launchpad?
[14:21] <renatu> sil2100, just fixed that: https://requests.ci-train.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/1870
[14:21] <sil2100> renatu: excellent
[14:22] <sil2100> rvr: ^
[14:22] <sil2100> rvr: could we put that on the priority list?
[14:23] <sil2100> renatu: are all those fixes in the silo for OTA-13? I see one bug report not being targetted for any release?
[14:23] <renatu> let me re-check
[14:23] <sil2100> renatu: since we need to get this pot fix ASAP
[14:23] <renatu> they should
[14:23] <sil2100> So that people still have time to translate before we get our final images built
[14:24] <renatu> sil2100, if you prefer I can create a new silo only for that
[14:25] <renatu> kenvandine, could you review this? https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/sync-monitor/fix-pot-build/+merge/304510
[14:26] <kenvandine> renatu, done
[14:27] <renatu> sil2100, I could push it direct to the trunk. Since this no need test
[14:28] <rvr> sil2100: Let me see
[14:28] <rvr> sil2100: To me it is ok
[14:29] <sil2100> renatu: I'll let rvr decide what he thinks, but I would personally like to fast-track the pot change ASAP, but if the other changes look fine then we could leave it as is and just ask QA to prioritize it a bit
[14:29] <renatu> kenvandine, could you top approval that :D
[14:30] <kenvandine> renatu, done
[14:30] <renatu> kenvandine, thanks
[14:30] <kenvandine> np
[14:30] <rvr> sil2100: "#1617916 Snyc-Monitor doesn't use translations in OTA-12" is on the regression list, so it's ok to do that silo
[14:31] <renatu> rvr, do you see any problem of pushing it to trunk without silo. Only for this mr?
[14:31] <renatu> https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/sync-monitor/fix-pot-build/+merge/304510
[14:31] <rvr> renatu: I prefer to go through silos
[14:31] <renatu> ok
[14:31] <rvr> We are not in panic mode to commit to trunk :)
[14:31] <rvr> Let's follow the rules as usual


[09:42] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4182 Pending binary packages
[10:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- cpaelzer, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4182 Diff missing
[16:51] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4183 No packages are being considered! If you are preparing sources manually, please upload them to the PPA now
[17:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4164 Diff missing (groovy/ifupdown). Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (groovy/isc-dhcp). Release pocket (groovy/resolvconf)
[17:43] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4183 Pending binary packages
[18:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- xnox, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/4183 Diff missing


[00:29] <bigjools> roaksoax: out of interest, what does it mean when the main bugtask on those backport requests is marked fix-released?
[00:40] <roaksoax> bigjools: that's been fixed in ubuntu+1
[00:41] <bigjools> ah ok trunk
[00:41] <bigjools> seems a bit weird for a backport request, but ok :)
[00:48] <roaksoax> bigjools: not trunk, but raring :)
[00:48] <roaksoax> bigjools: raring/quantal
[00:48] <roaksoax> so in case we are sruing to quantal, we need it fixed in raring first
[00:48] <bigjools> it's ubuntu's trunk :)
[00:49] <roaksoax> bigjools: btw... nick just made changes to the documentation in the latest stabilization ... however, unless the docs build with whatever is in archive, the won't get included in the package
[00:49] <roaksoax> other than that, maas-import-pxe-file manpage needs to be built now
[00:51] <bigjools> roaksoax: you mean dependencies?
[00:52] <roaksoax> bigjools: yeah dependencies in archive
[00:52] <bigjools> roaksoax: ok I think it should. there were fixes, but I don't recall seeing any n ew deps
[00:53] <roaksoax> yep, will look into that then
[00:53] <roaksoax> anyways, i'm off
[00:53] <lifeless> bigjools: so the idea is that sru only gets things that applied to trunk first. As a process it doesn't understand things that only apply to old versions (such as bugs that architectural improvements made impossible in trunk)
[00:53] <roaksoax> have a good day
[00:53] <bigjools> roaksoax: righto, cheers buddy
[00:54] <bigjools> lifeless: yes, that's understood.  I was just referring to the odd practice with bugs.
[00:54] <lifeless> bigjools: so was I :P
[00:54] <bigjools> then we are in violent agreement
[00:54] <lifeless> \o/
[00:55] <bigjools> now, time for the a/c, 30C at 11am is too much
[14:39] <rbasak> allenap: this printf "%s\n" "$@" thing; I had no idea that printf would behave like that, but it does seem to. Is this documented anywhere?
[14:39] <rbasak> (ie. I can't find it documented anywhere!)
[14:43] <allenap> rbasak: I can't find it documented anywhere either.
[14:43] <rbasak> allenap: should I use it anyway?
[14:44]  * rbasak isn't too bothered by arches starting with hyphens, or arches with spaces in them (although the latter is easy enough to quote)
[14:47] <allenap> rbasak: Up to you :) Using an undocumented feature of bash's printf doesn't seem like a big problem, given that none of this has tests to spot breakage with echo either ;) It's probably $safer to go with echo, where $safer has yet to be defined in this dimension.
[14:47] <rbasak> :-)
[23:23] <roaksoax> bigjools: howdy
[23:23] <roaksoax> bigjools: https://code.launchpad.net/~allenap/maas/packaging.render-man/+merge/135798
[23:23] <bigjools> o/
[23:23] <roaksoax> bigjools: i think that should not land
[23:24]  * bigjools is all ears
[23:24] <roaksoax> bigjools: that's getting dependencies for the internet
[23:24] <bigjools> ?
[23:24] <bigjools> how's that?
[23:25] <allenap> Ah, `make man` may do that.
[23:25] <allenap> roaksoax: Good point.
[23:25] <bigjools> oh I didn't know it did that
[23:25] <bigjools> that's quite bad indeedf
[23:25] <roaksoax> yeah :)
[23:25] <allenap> It's automatically installing Sphinx via buildout.
[23:25] <bigjools> so allenap, back to pre-generated man pages? :)
[23:26] <allenap> bigjools: Yeah :-/
[23:26] <allenap> Right, shouldn't take long...
[23:26] <roaksoax> allenap: can't use sphinx from archiveS?
[23:26] <bigjools> "Julian's change and Gavin's change meet like matter and antimatter"
[23:26] <bigjools> !
[23:27] <roaksoax> how woudl you generate those docs manually?
[23:27] <bigjools> allenap: ah yes you could add sphinx as a build dep
[23:28] <roaksoax> the problem is that it is setting a build environment
[23:29] <allenap> Could use sphinx from package I guess. Let me see if that'll work.
[23:30] <roaksoax> allenap:
[23:30] <roaksoax> allenap: yes
[23:32] <roaksoax> allenap: and you need to make sure that the source is not unclean after making it
[23:35] <bigjools> roaksoax: I pushed a new change up to packaging.precise.sru.  I also set the branch conf to append_revisions_only=True just in case you decided to push without pulling first :)
[23:35] <roaksoax> bigjools: alright cool :)
[23:36] <allenap> roaksoax, bigjools: It's a big job to set up the build environment (right now it needs the full Django+MAAS stack build in order to correctly generate docs) so I'm going to go with keeping the generated man pages in the tree.
[23:36] <bigjools> urgh
[23:36] <bigjools> ok
[23:39] <roaksoax> allenap: so yeah we don't want that in the packaging (to buld the whole environment), so I'd recommend you do it in the debian/rules file, (similar to how I build enums.js)
[23:40] <allenap> bigjools: We can revisit this later; let's do this to unblock the build. Secondly, we could add a test to ensure that the man pages are up-to-date.
[23:41] <bigjools> allenap: +!
[23:41] <bigjools> and 1
[23:44] <allenap> bigjools: https://code.launchpad.net/~allenap/maas/keep-rendered-man-pages/+merge/135800 (no test, but I need to go to bed)
[23:44] <bigjools> allenap: I'll pick it up, thanks
[23:44] <allenap> There will be a corresponding package change.
[23:44] <bigjools> ok
[23:45] <allenap> bigjools: I've just pushed the packaging change (to not generate the man pages). Night night.
[23:45] <bigjools> cheers
[23:45] <bigjools> nn
[23:45] <allenap> roaksoax: Thanks for spotting that problem so soon.
[23:45] <bigjools> I'll fix it all up, it'll conflict with mine
[23:45] <roaksoax> allenap: no worries :) that's the reason why I never built docs before :)
[23:46] <roaksoax> anyways
[23:46] <roaksoax> have fun guys
[23:46]  * roaksoax continues with his holiday
[23:46] <bigjools> o/
[23:52] <bigjools> roaksoax: FWIW the trunk packaging had ended up with maas/1.2 in the get-orig-source rule.... oops!
[23:52] <roaksoax> bigjools: yeah I removed that but I gets got introduced again :S:)
[23:52] <bigjools> it's fixed in allenap's branch about to land
[23:53] <roaksoax> ok cool
[23:54] <bigjools> roaksoax: also I unsubscribed maas-maintainers from branch email - subscribe yourself instead if you want
[23:56] <roaksoax> bigjools: will do
[23:56] <roaksoax> thanks
[23:56] <bigjools> I got fed up with double notifications