[05:20] <mborzecki> morning
[06:35] <mvo> good morning! and yay, only 2 pages of open PRs :)
[06:36] <zyga> Good morning
[06:37] <zyga> I had a dream about a raspberry pi, booting over usb into uboot sent from a separate computer, then loading kernel and initrd over lan and booting into initrd for testing
[06:37] <zyga> Is that normal?
[06:39] <zyga> I will start by booting Fedora and testing the update
[06:40] <mvo> hey zyga ! good morning
[06:43] <mborzecki> zyga: mvo: hey
[06:43] <mvo> hey mborzecki
[06:45] <mborzecki> zyga: the lan part is doable (now even?), don't know about uboot from usb though
[06:50] <mvo> xnox: speaking of empty etc, may I interesst you in LP 1736744
[06:50] <mvo> xnox: one tiny step forward (one less file there)
[07:03] <pstolowski> morning
[07:04] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:16] <zyga> mborzecki: yes, totally
[07:17] <mborzecki> zyga: heh, the dnf command in snapd page in bodhi does not install anything here, i guess mirrors aren't synced yet
[07:17] <zyga> Aha, I’ll check soon
[07:17] <zyga> Janek goes for a school trip
[07:17] <zyga> I will start at 10, need to go to school with him today
[07:33] <mborzecki> hm i should really fix the upgrade test on fedora, but since 39.1 is already in testing i could wait a little bit
[07:56] <zyga> back in the office
[07:58] <zyga> it's a **hot** day
[08:12] <ackk> mvo, hi, in the currently implemented work for  https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/phase-1-of-opt-in-per-snap-users-groups-aka-the-daemon-user/10624, do you know if the daemon user also has a group it can be used in the snap?
[08:15] <mvo> ackk: iirc it will have a group as well ("daemon") but take it with a gain of salt, jdstrand is leading the implementation, he is the authority here :)
[08:15] <ackk> mvo, ok, thanks, will give it a try and see if it works :)
[08:30] <ackk> mvo, if you have a snap that's been installed from the store with --devmode and it gets updated (also from the store), how do you drop the devmode flag?
[08:32] <Chipaca> ackk: you remove it and reinstall it?
[08:32] <Chipaca> ackk: we have no --un-devmode
[08:32] <Chipaca> for any of those flags
[08:32] <ackk> Chipaca, ok, I thought so but wanted to confirm
[08:32] <Chipaca> ackk: if you have data, snapshot and restore will work
[08:32] <Chipaca> (automatic snapshot if your snapd is new enough)
[08:33] <ackk> Chipaca, currently the maas snap does some 'chown nobody:nogroup' in the configure hook, we'd have to transition that to the daemon user, but I guess it should be fine because if you're doing a clean install you won't need --devmode, and if you're upgrading from one that had devmode, you can still change the ownership
[08:34] <Chipaca> ackk: tell me more about this "upgrading devmode"
[08:34] <Chipaca> because AFAIK devmode still does not auto-refresh
[08:34] <ackk> Chipaca, wdym?
[08:34] <ackk> Chipaca, it doesn't?
[08:34] <Chipaca> (yes we have a TODO item to make that happen but AFAIK it does not)
[08:34] <ackk> Chipaca, note that the snap is not marked as devmode
[08:34] <ackk> (if that's what you mean)
[08:34] <Chipaca> ackk: snap install --devmode foo  results in foo not getting refreshed
[08:35] <Chipaca> ackk: irrespective of whether the snap itself needs devmode
[08:35] <ackk> Chipaca, can you manually refresh via snap refresh <snap> ?
[08:35] <ackk> or do you have to snap install /
[08:35] <Chipaca> hmmmmmmm
[08:35] <Chipaca> we've dithered a bit on this so i'd have to check
[08:36] <Chipaca> AKshully, maybe a manual 'snap refresh thesnap' (without --devmode) drops the devmode flag
[08:36] <Chipaca> maybe
[08:36] <ackk> Chipaca, to clarify, the maas snap is published to the store and it's grade:stable confinement:strict, but it only works if you snap install --devmode maas
[08:38] <Chipaca> ackk: it looks like 'snap refresh' without --devmode, *as long as there actually is an update*, drops the devmode flag
[08:38] <Chipaca> ackk: um
[08:38] <Chipaca> ackk: to be clear, 'snap refresh thesnap', not a bare 'snap refresh'
[08:38] <Chipaca> I'll check if it's actually dropping devmode from the profiles, but if it's not then that's a bug :)
[08:40] <ackk> Chipaca, I see you can also snap refresh --devmode
[08:40] <Chipaca> ackk: yes, and that will preserve devmode for the refresh
[08:41] <Chipaca> so that's how you drop the devmode flag -- there is no --un-devmode, but if you can make it do an actual refresh you can do it this way
[08:41] <Chipaca> (it doesn't work with a no-op refresh)
[08:41] <ackk> Chipaca, that makes sense, thanks for clarifying
[08:41] <Chipaca> maybe it should
[08:41] <Chipaca> but that's one for pedronis :)
[08:42] <ackk> Chipaca, do epochs work if you're refreshing with/from devmode ?
[08:42] <Chipaca> ackk: always
[08:42] <Chipaca> ackk: epochs are orthogonal to the sandbox
[08:42] <Chipaca> ackk: devmode is about the sandbox
[08:43] <ackk> Chipaca, ok, so I guess since we need to move from nobody to the deamon user, we'll have to use an epoch and upgrade via --devmode to be able to make the chmod
[08:43] <ackk> err, chown
[08:43] <Chipaca> that sounds awful
[08:43] <Chipaca> :-/
[08:43] <ackk> is there a better way?
[08:43] <Chipaca> ackk: what is it you need to do?
[08:43] <ackk> (it does sound awful)
[08:43] <Chipaca> ackk: currentl the snap only works with --devmode?
[08:43] <ackk> Chipaca, so i have $SNAP_DATA/foo which is nobody:nogroup (and the snap is --devmode)
[08:44] <ackk> Chipaca, correct
[08:44] <ackk> Chipaca, I need to chown that to daemon:daemon so we can use system-users: [daemon] and drop devmode
[08:44] <Chipaca> ackk: can't you switch the devmode snap to use the daemon user before using system-users?
[08:44] <ackk> Chipaca, how?
[08:44] <Chipaca> ackk: how is it today using nobody:nogroup?
[08:45] <ackk> Chipaca, ah yeah that's what I'm saying
[08:45] <Chipaca> ah
[08:45] <ackk> Chipaca, swithc to daeamon:daemon and then drop devmode
[08:45] <ackk> Chipaca, but that's an intermediate requires step
[08:45] <ackk> and you have to snap refresh --devmode to it
[08:45] <Chipaca> ackk: yeah
[08:45] <ackk> and then snap refresh without
[08:45] <ackk> then you're free
[08:45] <Chipaca> ackk: hmm
[08:46] <ackk> Chipaca, maybe it'd be easier to snap remove, restore the snapshot, reinstall and chown manually :)
[08:46] <Chipaca> ackk: you could have the non-devmode snap copy the data instead of chowning it
[08:46] <ackk> Chipaca, but that will leave files that the snap can't do anything with?
[08:47] <Chipaca> ackk: i mean: have an ad-hoc miration daemon
[08:47] <ackk> unless you can still chown in a confined snap from a different user to yours
[08:47] <Chipaca> ackk: that runs as root
[08:47] <Chipaca> ackk: that copies the data over, removes the old data, and kicks the new 'daemon' daemon
[08:47] <ackk> Chipaca, will root in the snap be able to chown? I thought it wouldn't
[08:47] <Chipaca> ackk: no, not chown, but copy
[08:48] <ackk> Chipaca, can it remove the old data?
[08:48] <Chipaca> should be able to yes
[08:48] <Chipaca> runs as root an' all
[08:48] <ackk> mhm yeah that might be easier yes
[08:48] <Chipaca> chown/chuid is forbidden but not r/w/chmod
[08:48] <Chipaca> so you shold be able to get it working
[08:48] <Chipaca> hmm hmm
[08:49] <Chipaca> ackk: is the old data world-readable?
[08:51] <ackk> Chipaca, it should be yes. I can give a try at copying
[08:51] <ackk> Chipaca, thanks
[08:53] <Chipaca> ackk: if the old data is world-readable, the 'daemon' daemon could do the copy
[08:53] <Chipaca> ackk: how much data is it?
[08:54] <ackk> Chipaca, mhm actually that's the problem, it's mostly the squid and postgres dirs
[08:54] <ackk> so, potentially a lot
[08:55] <Chipaca> yeah that might make it unworkable
[08:56] <Chipaca> ackk: TBH sounds like telling somebody to 'snap refresh --devmode maas && snap refresh maas' is about the same as 'chown -R daemon:daemon /the/data && snap refresh maas' and a lot less work for you
[08:56] <Chipaca> the latter is less work i mean
[09:00] <ackk> Chipaca, yeah, it's ugly either way, although the first one is "safer" as we can make sure the right commands are run
[09:01]  * Chipaca nods
[09:02] <Chipaca> ackk: you can at least use epochs to raiload people through that
[09:02] <ackk> Chipaca, right
[09:02] <Chipaca> ackk: give the new devmode-needing snap an epoch of 1*, and the new strict snap an epoch of 1
[09:02] <Chipaca> ackk: then people installing from scratch will get the epoch:1 one
[09:03] <ackk> Chipaca, right, that was my thinking
[09:03] <Chipaca> ackk: and people that are on the old no-epoch (ie epoch 0) snap can't go to the epoch:1 one
[09:03] <Chipaca> they need to go through the 1* one
[09:03] <Chipaca> tadaa, or something
[09:03] <Chipaca> :)
[09:03] <Chipaca> ackk: and, and, you can update the epoch:1* snap and not stomp on the epoch:1 snap in the same channel
[09:04] <ackk> Chipaca, heh. yeah we already need epochs anyway as the new snap has to upgrade the db (the current stable one has postgres9 , the new pg10)
[09:04] <Chipaca> (i.e. even if the last snap you pushed was the epoch:1* snap, people will still get the epoch:1 one
[09:04] <Chipaca> )
[09:04] <Chipaca> people doing new installs*
[09:05] <Chipaca> mvo: pstolowski: do you know what uses the snap-install-hook-broken snap? (from tests/lib/snaps/)
[09:05] <Chipaca> mvo: pstolowski: because it fails to install for a completely different reason than what I suspect it means to fail to install
[09:05] <ackk> Chipaca, can you explain the last sentence? if you have a 1 and a 1* in the same channel, whhy would you get the 1 ?
[09:05] <ackk> (in a new install)
[09:06] <Chipaca> ackk: 1* is {read:[0,1] write:[1]}
[09:06] <Chipaca> ackk: 1 is {read:[1], write:[1]}
[09:06] <ackk> Chipaca, right, but why do you care on a new install?
[09:06] <pedronis> zyga: hi, did you see my comment in #6714 btw?
[09:06] <mvo> Chipaca: idk, I suspect its a leftover?
[09:07] <zyga> pedronis: hi, I haven't yet, looking
[09:07] <Chipaca> ackk: so the upgrade epoch path thing is 0 → 1* → 1
[09:08] <zyga> I will try to return to that branch soon, thank you
[09:08] <Chipaca> ackk: when you install or refresh you always get the rightmost snap in that → series
[09:08] <pstolowski> Chipaca: hmmm apparently it's not used. wonder if it was replace by snap-hooks-bad-install
[09:08] <pstolowski> *replaced
[09:08] <Chipaca> ackk: the rightmost snap that you can use i mean
[09:08] <Chipaca> ackk: on a new install, that's always the rightmost one
[09:08] <ackk> Chipaca, right, so if you make a clean install you get "1"
[09:08] <ackk> Chipaca, ok, I thought you said you'd get 1*
[09:08] <Chipaca> ackk: exactly
[09:09] <Chipaca> ackk: independently of what the last snap you pushed to the channel was
[09:10] <Chipaca> ackk: that's important because otherwise a new user might get a 1* which is just a fix for a bug in a migration snap when the latest and greatest is 4 or something
[09:10] <ackk> Chipaca, aah I see you mean if you push 30: 1 and then 31: 1*, a new install still gets 30
[09:10] <Chipaca> ackk: yep
[09:11] <ackk> Chipaca, I see yeah that wworks
[09:16] <Chipaca> pedronis: wdyt of in-cohort?
[09:17] <pedronis> Chipaca: sounds reasonable
[09:17] <Chipaca> k
[09:18]  * Chipaca gets on it
[09:19] <pedronis> mborzecki: I did another pass on some of the gadget update PRs
[09:19] <mborzecki> pedronis: thanks
[09:20] <mborzecki> pedronis: i've udpated https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6836 with feedback from yesterday
[09:21] <pedronis> mborzecki: ok, I'll look again later, need to do some forum answering
[09:22] <mborzecki> pedronis: sure, thank you for taking time to do the reviews, there's a quite bunch of those :)
[09:40]  * zyga has a small breakthrough in ideas about mount propagation
[09:40] <zyga> let's quickly code that
[09:48]  * Chipaca puts https://mobile.twitter.com/LightfootJaime/status/1135970988217249793 gently down and walks away whistling
[09:53] <zyga> Chipaca: wow, that's cool
[09:53] <zyga> I love the front panel
[09:54] <Chipaca> zyga: I was going to point you at it directly but didn't want to interrupt :)
[09:58] <mborzecki_> forum has spilled to reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/bwxij9/since_when_did_qtkde_snaps_become_better/
[10:01] <zyga> oh?
[10:22] <mvo> cmatsuoka: hey, do we need to update the spike-tools repo ? I get a make error in e2fsprogrs right now but iirc you mentioned those are no longer needed ?
[10:34] <mvo> Chipaca: silly question - how long is the cohort key?
[10:37] <pedronis> mvo: ~148
[10:41] <mvo> ta
[10:48] <mvo> pedronis: I guess there is a good reason for this, would love to hear a td;lr summary (maybe in the standup)
[10:58] <zyga> brb, coffee
[11:19] <cmatsuoka> mvo: yes, it should be in the writable-ramdisk branch as well
[11:22] <zyga> brb, rebooting
[11:23] <cmatsuoka> mvo: my plan is to add the recovery chooser today for install and recovery modes
[11:23] <mvo> cmatsuoka: what do I need to add/change to prepare.sh to get writable-ramdisk? is that from your core-build repo?
[11:24] <cmatsuoka> mvo: let me run it here in a clean dir, it was supposed to work
[11:26] <mvo> cmatsuoka: ok, maybe its my 19.04, I can try on a 18.04
[11:27] <cmatsuoka> mvo: I don't know how sensitive it is to environment variations, but it's possible
[11:28] <cmatsuoka> my build box here is 18.04
[11:33] <cmatsuoka> mvo: hmm, in fact mke2fs shouldn't be there since it's not needed anymore
[11:34] <jdstrand> ackk (cc mvo): there will be a group too
[11:34] <ackk> jdstrand, nice, thanks!
[11:35] <mvo> cmatsuoka: it builds on 18.04
[11:35] <ackk> jdstrand, unrelated, not sure if it was mentioned at the sprint, but would it make sense to have an interface to allow reading /run/uuidd/request?
[11:36] <mvo> cmatsuoka: but if we don't need e2fs anyway, I can remove it
[11:36] <cmatsuoka> mvo: I just noticed that build-image.sh complains about go/snapd, you'll have to build it as well
[11:36] <cmatsuoka> I'm pushing an updated prepare
[11:36] <mvo> cmatsuoka: thank you! I check it after lunch
[11:52] <zyga> pstolowski: I will try to review https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6923 today
[11:53] <jdstrand> ackk: we did talk about it. it is in openvswitch-support, believe it or not, but @{PROC}/sys/kernel/random/uuid is already in the default template which is going to be more robust since uuidd may not (necessarily) be everywhere
[11:53] <pstolowski> zyga ty
[11:54] <lss8> so, is there now a way to disable automatic snap update checks?
[11:55] <lss8> I'd like to not auto update my snaps as this is a potential security issue
[12:08] <Chipaca> lss8: _updating_ your snaps is a security issue?
[12:08] <Chipaca> lss8: please explain?
[12:11] <Chipaca> lss8: if you have specific concerns, and are planning to test for these concerns in a controlled environment before releasing things to a large network, there are tools for this
[12:13] <Chipaca> lss8: but as i say, please explain
[12:25] <ackk> jdstrand, yeah I'm not sure what's actually using it in the maas snap, I've seen denials, but we don't use it explicitly
[12:52] <jdstrand> ackk: I think blake_r or roaksoax thought it was something in a python lib that could be switched out or something
[12:53] <mborzecki> pedronis: update gadget task handler also checks whether a snap is installed, we can do it in both places though
[12:53] <pedronis> mborzecki: yes, I think best it to do it both places
[12:58] <mborzecki> pedronis: ack
[13:02] <ackk> jdstrand, yeah not sure, afaik we always use the python uuid module, which does stuff on its own
[13:02] <kenvandine> cwayne: i haven't gotten a testflinger email lately
[13:12] <zyga> kenvandine: more fixes for mount profiles coming soon
[13:15] <kenvandine> zyga: great
[13:16] <Greyer> hi ppl, at monday I have installed recent snapd-2.39-1.el7.x86_64 on CentOS 7 (OS is with SELinux in Enforced mode) and after that my LXD was unavailable, I've looked into audit and saw lot of permission errors. Switching into Permissive regain me access to lxd daemon. Is this a known issue or I should create ticket in bugzilla for this?
[13:16] <mborzecki> pedronis: fakestore new-snap-revision --snap-rev-json right?
[13:17] <zyga> Greyer: hello
[13:17] <zyga> mborzecki: ^
[13:17] <mborzecki> Greyer: hey
[13:17] <Greyer> hey :)
[13:18] <zyga> Greyer: based on what you just described it doesn't seem like the issue that we fixed yesterday but I will defer to mborzecki's opinion
[13:18] <mborzecki> Greyer: what's the problem?
[13:19] <Greyer> mborzecki: CentOS 7 in Selinux Enforced mode on newest snapd (snapd-2.39-1.el7.x86_64) gets LXD broken, lxd daemon pid is not available
[13:19] <zyga> Greyer: what kind of denials are you seeing?
[13:19] <mborzecki> Greyer: interesting, we have an integration test targeting this, let me check it locally
[13:20] <zyga> Greyer: is it broken straight away of after reboot?
[13:20] <zyga> perhaps it's the same bug
[13:20] <Greyer> zyga: straight away
[13:20] <Greyer> I've made yum update and lxc list stopped working saying that daemon is not available
[13:20] <Greyer> let me check
[13:21] <mborzecki> Greyer: installing now
[13:22] <pedronis> mborzecki: yes
[13:23] <Greyer> btw, I've jumped from snapd-2.38-1.el7.x86_64 to snapd-2.39-1.el7.x86_64
[13:24] <Greyer> but I don't think there was any other version between in epel repository
[13:25] <Greyer> what is odd, my lxd containers were still running without problems, just I couldn't use the commands
[13:25] <mborzecki> Greyer: w8, so you had lxd installed, and updated to 2.39, that's when it broke, right?
[13:27] <Greyer> yes, lxd was installed, containers were running
[13:27] <Greyer> I have updated snapd from 2.38 to 2.39 (epel7 repository)
[13:27] <Greyer> and all lxc commands stopped working saying that lxd daemon is not working
[13:27] <Greyer> but containers were workin
[13:27] <Greyer> g
[13:27] <Greyer> I have downgraded to 2.38 everything worked again
[13:28] <Greyer> so reuptaded to 2.39
[13:28] <Greyer> and again no permissions, then setenforce 0, lxc commands started working
[13:31] <Greyer> Jun 03 08:32:27 sheldon.szary.sh lxd.daemon[2215]: cmd_run.go:375: restoring default SELinux context of /root/snap
[13:31] <Greyer> Jun 03 08:32:27 sheldon.szary.sh lxd.daemon[2215]: execv failed: Permission denied
[13:33] <mborzecki> Greyer: can you upload `ausearch -m AVC -ts 08:32` somewhere?
[13:35] <Greyer> mborzecki: yes, sec
[13:36] <Greyer> mborzecki: I see only logs from today, audit.log was rotated, so let me change
[13:43] <Greyer> mborzecki: http://tmp.szary.sh/audit.log-20190603-0830-0840
[13:43] <Greyer> here
[13:43] <mborzecki> Greyer: looking
[13:44] <mborzecki> Greyer: what does `mount |grep snap` show?
[13:47] <mborzecki> Greyer: for the record, when updating to 2.39 you need to reboot for the mount points to be recreated with proper selinux contexts
[13:48] <mborzecki> Greyer: it's a one off thing, we previously did not have any selinux contexts for mounted snaps, but now we have
[13:49] <mborzecki> Greyer: restarting mounts will likely not help, unless you can make sure that the mount point is not used in any mount ns, kernel denies remounting a block device with a different security context
[13:52] <Greyer><EMAIL_ADDRESS>15:42:06 ~ # mount | grep snap | column -t
[13:52] <Greyer> tmpfs                                on  /run/snapd/ns                  type  tmpfs     (rw,nosuid,nodev,seclabel,mode=755)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/lxd_10601.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/lxd/10601  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,seclabel)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/lxd_10756.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/lxd/10756  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,seclabel)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/core_6673.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/core/6673  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,context=system_u:object_r:snappy_snap_t:s0)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/core_6818.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/core/6818  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,context=system_u:object_r:snappy_snap_t:s0)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/core_6964.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/core/6964  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,context=system_u:object_r:snappy_snap_t:s0)
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/lxd_10526.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/lxd/10526  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,context=system_u:object_r:snappy_snap_
[13:52] <Greyer> /var/lib/snapd/snaps/lxd_10526.snap  on  /var/lib/snapd/snap/lxd/10526  type  squashfs  (ro,nodev,relatime,context=system_u:object_r:snappy_snap_t:s0)
[13:52] <Greyer> proc                                 on  /run/snapd/ns/lxd.mnt          type  proc      (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,relatime)
[13:54] <mborzecki> Greyer: looks good, you're on 2.39 now, right?
[13:54] <Greyer> mborzecki: so You advise to reboot?
[13:54] <Greyer> yes, I'm on 2.39 now with Permissive Selinux mode
[13:55] <Greyer> I can switch to Enforced and reboot to see if it'll work
[13:58] <mborzecki> Greyer: just to make sure, can you systemctl cat var-lib-snapd-snap-lxd-10756.mount ? there should be snappy_snap_t in mount options
[13:59] <mborzecki> Greyer: if it's there, then you can reboot
[14:22] <zyga> Greyer: any luck?
[14:25] <pedronis> mvo: pstolowski: seems the store has added the 'snapd' type already
[14:33] <pstolowski> pedronis: great!
[14:34] <ijohnson> davdunc: hi! have you considered making aws-cli a strict snap with the personal-files interface to access $HOME/.aws instead of classic?
[14:37] <Greyer> ah, mborzecki is out, I got dragged to solve issue
[14:38] <Greyer> there is snappy_snap_t in mount options
[14:39] <Greyer> I will reboot in a few minutes, first need to take kid from preschool
[14:44] <Eighth_Doctor> zyga: could you please test and give karma for F29 and EL7 snapd builds?
[14:44] <Eighth_Doctor> they need +2 in order to make it in the distro, and F29 has 0, while EL7 has +1
[14:48] <zyga> Eighth_Doctor: sure, let me boot fedora
[14:48] <zyga> I noticed the ping in the morning but mborzecki said the update was not ready somehow yet
[14:54] <davdunc> ijohnson: I have.
[14:54] <Eighth_Doctor> it wasn't at his mirrors
[14:54] <Eighth_Doctor> but it has been pushed to the mirror network
[14:55] <davdunc> ijohnson: it's on my roadmap, just not completed.
[15:05] <pedronis> mvo: pstolowski: snapcraft doesn't though, we need to ask for that
[15:11] <zyga> re-running regressed test
[15:11] <zyga> I need to think some more but I think this will be good
[15:16] <pstolowski> ok
[15:21] <zyga> more work required :/
[15:21] <zyga> the idea is good but the algo is simplistic
[15:21] <zyga> need to think
[15:39] <pedronis> mvo: I proposed #6957
[15:41] <mvo> pedronis: thank you!
[15:42] <ogra> mvo, do we have any plans for a classic snap on UC18 ? (do we even ship the tarball with the removed files at all in 18 ?)
[15:43] <ackk> does each snap have a namespaced view of /dev/shm?
[15:44] <ogra> yes, but not under that node name IIRC
[15:44] <ogra> (there is a snap specific prefix)
[15:45] <mvo> ogra: have you tried "snap install classic --channel=18/edge" ?
[15:45] <ogra> mvo, ah, no, does it exist already ?
[15:45] <ogra> abeato, ^^^
[15:45] <mvo> ogra: yes, I'm not sure how good and well tested it is
[15:45] <mvo> ogra: but we did some work on this a good while ago
[15:46] <mvo> ogra: its probably super out-of-date :(
[15:46] <ogra> awesome, i wasnt aware of the status
[15:46] <ackk> ogra, so I see https://paste.ubuntu.com/ on my machine, where those squid entries are from a squid in the snap. does that mean you can't run more than one?
[15:46] <mvo> ogra: I can look into this soon(ish)
[15:47] <ogra> mvo, well, alfonso asked for it, i use mostly lxd nowadays (but then i also rarely need gdb against the os itself)
[15:47] <ogra> (which classic makes easy)
[15:47] <ijohnson> davdunc: okay, thanks. I made a version of the snap using the personal-files interface a while ago but didn't push up to the store I could share with you if you're interested
[15:48] <abeato> ogra, mvo oh very nice, so there is something, that's a good start
[15:48] <mvo> abeato: please keep me posted, its been a while since I looked at this
[15:49] <ogra> abeato, yeah ... happy to help with fixes if there are anyy needed
[15:49] <abeato> sure
[15:52] <ackk> ogra, also if I ls /dev/shm from another confined snap, I do see those files
[15:56] <ogra> ackk, well, thats a jdstrand topic then :)
[15:57] <ogra> ackk, FWIW https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/shared-memory-in-dev-shm-rewriting/2023
[15:57] <ackk> ogra, thanks
[16:08]  * cachio lunch
[16:15] <davdunc> ijohnson: that would be much appreciated. https://github.com/davdunc/aws-cli-snap
[16:16] <davdunc> I love it when there's less work for me to do to get to the same goal.
[16:16] <davdunc> and I appreciate all the help I have gotten so far.
[16:17] <ackk> ogra, thanks, the thing is I'm trying to fix the case where preexisting shm files exist
[16:46] <Saviq> jdstrand: hey, we've been getting more "outdated packages" emails recently and were wondering if we could somehow automate the rebuilds, is the data available somewhere other than in the email? could we get it ourselves in CI maybe?
[17:31] <jdstrand> Saviq: you might be interested in https://blog.strandboge.com/2019/02/01/monitoring-your-snaps-for-security-updates/
[17:33] <Saviq> jdstrand: aha! pity that would require us to download the snaps from the store to run :/
[17:42] <jdstrand> Saviq: ideally the store would provide something, but it doesn't and this is all separate atm
[17:46] <Chipaca> EOD from me 👋
[21:37] <ijohnson> davdunc: I opened https://github.com/davdunc/aws-cli-snap/pull/3 to use the personal-files interface
[22:56] <davdunc> thanks.


[06:51] <dholbach> good morning
[15:28] <leo___> hi
[15:29] <leo___> anybody here?
[18:50] <c_smith_> hmmmm..... guess there's time to reboot for this kernel update
[18:52] <snwh> can I suggest putting "irc://chat.freenode.net/#ubuntu-on-air" as a link on the ubuntu-on-air site for those who already have an irc client installed
[18:52] <snwh>  clicking it would simply open the channel in their app and they wouldn't need to have to use the embedded one
[18:53] <snwh> not sure who to ping. jcastro ?
[18:54] <jcastro> sure ... one moment
[18:54] <snwh> i thought it would be a good idea :)
[18:55] <UbuPhillup> snwh: or ping mhall119 or popey ;)
[18:56] <popey> doesn't work for nerds who use irssi inside screen ☻
[18:56] <UbuPhillup> ;)
[18:56] <snwh>  _those_ people ;)
[18:57] <jcastro> I can put it in the page
[18:57] <jcastro> but after bacon's podcast, he's editing it right now and I don't wanna clobber it
[18:57] <Antonov> hi all :)
[18:57] <snwh> doesn't the use of IRC make us all nerds anyway
[18:58] <snwh> jcastro, cool beans :)
[18:58] <jcastro> heh, you know IRC, you know how to hover over the link in a browser
[18:59] <openbees> I have no idea why I am here :/
[19:00] <jdrab_> yes we see you!
[19:00] <openbees> Hello jono
[19:00] <Masternoob> Hi, everybody!
[19:00] <jono> hey all
[19:00] <bashrc> hi y'all
[19:00] <ryanhoots> I see you
[19:00] <number22> yay
[19:00] <jdrab_> 52seconds
[19:00] <jdrab_> :D
[19:00] <UbuPhillup> hey
[19:01] <ryanhoots> Finally, I actually made it. Usually I miss these shows by a wide margin...
[19:01] <Masternoob> up up and away
[19:01] <snwh> this is the first of these i've been to in months
[19:01] <richie442> Hi there
[19:01] <dexinox> online
[19:01] <koder> i can see you
[19:01] <pikachuza> coming through this side - in SA
[19:03] <raven> QUESTION: What did you eat today? How was it?
[19:03] <ICEMANno1> QUESTION: HiJonoHow far is the Ubuntu Phone 1.0 development? Will it be on time for release?
[19:03] <Masternoob> QUESTION What do you think about the intel/mir  controversy
[19:03] <ubuntut> QUESTION: what's Your opinion on data leaks by using dash? sending information to amazon?
[19:03] <openbees> What are your suggestion for new comers in ubuntu developemnt ?  How to start ... what to do .. what not do ? :)
[19:04] <raven> QUESTION: What is UbuntuVoice?  I heard Sam Hulick wanted to compose one, do you think it'll land in Ubuntu?
[19:06] <who_me> QUESTION: Intel started a bit of a storm with their decision to not carry Canonical's Mir patches. Do you have any type of input from nvidia or amd regarding support for Mir?
[19:06] <ckck> QUESTION: When will we be able to purchase an Ubuntu Phone from a supported carrier?
[19:07] <Tc_> How to send message from ubuntu kernel to IOS apps ?
[19:07] <openbees> wait aren't you avoiding all those questions :(
[19:08] <who_me> Tc_: you're probably in the wrong channel to ask that queestion
[19:08] <DS_McGuire> QUESTION: What Ubuntu community events go on in and around the UK that you know of?
[19:12] <raven> QUESTION: How many cats do you have at Canonical?
[19:12] <Antonov> QUESTION: i don have installed the GForce610M in my laptop, this really save the energy consuption of my laptop? (sorry for my english)
[19:12] <trobert2> QUESTION: Is ju-ju ready for deployment, or does it still need work before competing with crowbar or puppet ?
[19:13] <ICEMANno1> yes! SLAYER!!! ;) love it
[19:14] <Linux_User> QUESTION: What do you think about the decision of Intel of not giving oficial support to Mir/XMir?
[19:14] <Ordaz> answer the question the whole internet wants to know  can you get porn on it :-)
[19:15] <bashrc> QUESTION: what is power consumption like on the Ubuntu phone?  How long do the batteries last if you're not using it much?  Does going to Mir make any difference from an energy usage point of view?
[19:16] <guilhermeaiolfi> QUESTION: what happended to the ubuntu in a nutshell serie of posts? the one talking about unity was the last one?
[19:16] <jdrab_> QUESTION: will it be possible to use unity8 on 13.10 instead of unity7?
[19:16] <richrboo> QUESTION: have any manufacturers committed to bringing out an Ubuntu Phone?
[19:17] <andrescg7> pwd
[19:17] <andrescg7> Hello
[19:17] <andrescg7> ls
[19:17] <andrescg7> icoop
[19:18] <andrescg7> Hello
[19:18] <Andrey_> QUESTION: Have you heard anything from Dell's Project Sputnik? It looks almost abandoned lately.
[19:20] <Ordaz> Question: are you doing anything special for your 43rd Birthday?
[19:21] <sabret00the> Question: Where do you stand on the whole Firefox versus Chrome in Ubuntu thing?
[19:22] <girek> Hi! What about ubuntu touch?
[19:23] <openbees> Thank you for not avoiding that question as a forget to tag it :D
[19:25] <pinguy> This did last long: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xB7vRZiQDcEVCQX-HVqExj00O6925pWuCV65n4RjeEM/closedform
[19:28] <neuro> http://oggcamp.org/
[19:28] <neuro> evenin' all
[19:28] <SuperHans_> QUESTION: will ubuntu touch support fingerprint scanners? I expect a lot of OEMs will try to provide them to compete with apple.
[19:28] <Masternoob> cats? wat?
[19:29] <Masternoob> btw. thank you for doing this :)
[19:29] <kalio_> How easy is to get to work for Canonical? :)
[19:29] <trobert2> thank you
[19:29] <neuro> kalio_: you apply for a job that they have listed
[19:29] <neuro> then you get an interview
[19:29] <neuro> then you get offered another job
[19:30] <neuro> then you forget to tell them you don't want to go to the interview any more
[19:30] <simion314> QUESTION   what about accessibility in Unity8 mobile/desktop  and apps( like support for larger fonts)
[19:30] <dshimer_> QUESTION: Let's say that there are no proprietary drivers at all for Mir well into 2014.  What would be missing? what would be the problem? I just work all day on a laptop, how would it hurt me?
[19:30] <neuro> then when you change jobs later, and want to be hired by canonical, they don't invite you to interviews anymore
[19:30] <neuro> :)
[19:30] <neuro> this may just be my experience tho ;)
[19:31] <Masternoob> dshimer: you would probably only notice it on gaming
[19:31] <ICEMANno1> QUESTION: Are you going to be at this years UbuCon in Heidelberg?
[19:31] <dshimer_> QUESTION: Is there anything going on with the Ubuntu One sync service.  Seems kind of quiet. Any talk of versioning?
[19:31] <neuro> kalio_: oh and you should prepend your question with QUESTION: if you want it answered
[19:33] <DS_McGuire> QUESTION: When it comes to the user experience and testing you talked about do you think a demo after a fresh install (like the one seen on a fresh Ubuntu Touch flash) would be a good idea? I am sure I can put one of those together...
[19:33] <pinguy> QUESTION: How similar is Firefox OS to Ubuntu Touch as both are mainly powered by HTML5 apps.
[19:33] <neuro> grumpy cat is landscapey
[19:34] <jono> http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/ref=gno_listpop_wi
[19:35] <neuro> wow, total lag between typeage and video
[19:36] <neuro> QUESTION: Why would you want Howard the Duck on VHS when it's out on Blu Ray in Germany?!?!?!?!?!? "WAKKA WAKKA WAKKA!" "Oy vey!"
[19:36] <SuperHans_> The wishlist link doesn't work.
[19:36] <neuro> works fine for me
[19:36] <neuro> hence my Howard the Duck comment
[19:36] <CaseyB> Actual link to wish list: http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/1HUGRJJQTFK9S
[19:36] <neuro> oh wow
[19:37] <neuro> THAT'S MY WISHLIST
[19:37] <neuro> i'm such a doofus
[19:37] <UbuPhillup> neuro alles klar ?
[19:37]  * neuro slaps himself with pointless Howard the Duck VHS comments
[19:37] <neuro> jono: IGNORE MY QUESTION! ;)
[19:37] <Ordaz> question:  is it true your son is an angry driver :-)
[19:37] <neuro> UbuPhillup: ich keine sprechen deutsche
[19:38] <UbuPhillup> Ohh sorry ;)
[19:39] <neuro> really hoping jono ignores my question
[19:39] <Andrey_> I remember there was talk that KDE will not work under Mir. What about the apps that require KDE libraries (such as Kdenlive) — will they work in Unity under Mir seamlessly?
[19:39] <neuro> otherwise he will mock me mercilessly
[19:40] <Cain_> QUESTION: To return to the 'phone and screen performance - why do you assume 'phone apps only appear one at a time? I have a Nokia N900 with Maemo and the benefit of it running a Linux core is that I can run multiple apps side-by-side. Current 'phones will have the benefit of a bigger screen.
[19:40] <ryanhoots> QUESTION: I saw the Ubuntu logo was on the bottom of the launcher bar in Unity 8, will it be like that on the desktop when Unity 8 lands?
[19:40] <number22> QUESTION: do you also play keyboard? along with all these guitars and drums and vocals
[19:40] <neuro> NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
[19:41] <neuro> crap
[19:41] <neuro> :)
[19:41] <CaseyB> LOL!
[19:41] <stoffepojken> QUESTION: How is your relationship with Red Hat?
[19:41] <Andrey_> QUESTION: I remember there was talk that KDE will not work under Mir. What about the apps that require KDE libraries (such as Kdenlive) — will they work in Unity under Mir seamlessly?
[19:43] <Casper_> Will Ubuntu certify Samsung desktop hardware any time soon?
[19:44] <SuperHans_> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[19:44] <DS_McGuire> That wasn't funny...
[19:44] <neuro> that was *very* funny
[19:44] <jeggy_> Great news :P
[19:44] <SuperHans_> That was not a funny joke
[19:44] <DS_McGuire> hahah ;)
[19:44] <asusk7m550> Is there some training and certification for ubuntu?
[19:45] <ryanhoots> My reaction was going to be "woo hoo" because I like Fedora... :-/
[19:45] <Andrey_> My jaw dropped. Literally.
[19:45] <neuro> ryanhoots: *why*? ;)
[19:45] <Ordaz> question: is mir ready for daily use,  is it default in 13:10 yet
[19:45] <trobert2> i believed him
[19:46] <ryanhoots> neuro: I use Fedora and Ubuntu interchangably, for the most part
[19:46] <ICEMANno1> QUESTION: Why is MIR called MIR? :)
[19:46] <crappyquestions> QUESTION: Can you please play on the drums? Just for a second, please...
[19:46] <pinguy> QUESTION: What is Mir going to run as Gnome and KDE and every other DE is going with Wayland
[19:46] <Cain_> Life without coffee woudl not be worth living.
[19:46] <Ordaz> I am suing you for damage to my balls as my jaw hit them so hard
[19:46] <ubuntut> what's your opinion on Prism?
[19:46] <pinguy> Does this mean xmir is going to run everyhting
[19:46] <asusk7m550> QUESTION: Is there some training and certification for ubuntu?
[19:46] <neuro> QUESTION: serious one this time, promise! Any plans for juju to extend to the desktop? Think emerging tech like the Xbox One running 2 of it's OSes virtually (game + apps) ... perhaps a container style environment where complex apps could have an Ubuntu container to run pre-configured apps or services?
[19:46] <sabret00the> Question: Most of the desktop environments available for Linux today are "Windows clones", Unity brought some originality back, how do you feel about all the cloning? And what else original will Ubuntu bring to the table?
[19:46] <Casper_> Will Ubuntu certify Samsung desktop hardware any time soon?
[19:47] <number22> QUESTION: who is in charge naming all these stuff on ubuntu? mir, suru, shorts...
[19:47] <DS_McGuire> Question: What are the plans for Ubuntu Discourse? Redhatter!
[19:47] <snwh> QUESTION: how much wood does a woodchuck chuck?
[19:47] <jcastro> Did someone say discourse?
[19:47] <UbuPhillup> QUESTION: will mir support GTK+ nativly ?
[19:47] <neuro> jcastro: ears burning? :)
[19:48] <neuro> sabdfl went to Mir, guys!
[19:48] <Ordaz> probaby mir cats lol
[19:48] <pinguy> UbuPhillup, good point, because it looks like apart from Unity nothing is going to run on Mir. That means all apps are going to run under xmir
[19:48] <neuro> the space station
[19:48] <trobert2> QUESTION: do you have flatwound or roundwound on your bass?
[19:48] <number22> woo new album
[19:48] <simion314> QUESTION any plans to partner with more hardware providers for desktops and laptops?
[19:48] <jcastro> DS_McGuire: the latest on that is here: http://ubuntu-discourse.org/t/uds-session-on-discourse/959/7
[19:48] <number22> woo wasnt the right reaction i think
[19:48] <ryanhoots> QUESTION: If you could only have one guitar, which one would you pick?
[19:48] <Ordaz> question: do you have velcro attachments for your beard strip
[19:48] <SuperHans_> neuro: he went to the ISS actually.
[19:49] <neuro> SuperHans_: dammit, you're right
[19:49] <UbuPhillup> pinguy: ;)
[19:49] <neuro> i'm a space buff, how did i get that wrong
[19:49]  * neuro commits seppuku
[19:49] <Cain_> It's ironic that "mir" is Russion for "peace" given how divisive it has been. I just don't understand WHY Canonical chose to break with the crowd. Lots of things Canonical are doing lately turn me cold.
[19:49]  * neuro doesn't run Desktop, so it doesn't affect me ;)
[19:50] <Cain_> Grr... "RussiAn"
[19:50] <bashrc> QUESTION: are there any plans to try to speed up the initial loading time of the Ubuntu software center?
[19:50] <RobbieNor> QUESTION: Are there any plans to support nvidia optimus in 13.10, considering the mir/xmir switching based on which gpu is in use?
[19:50] <RobbieNor> *gpu driver
[19:51] <Cracknel> Wayland actually ships with some less known distros as RebeccaBlackOS - http://sourceforge.net/projects/rebeccablackos/
[19:51] <sebsebseb> hi
[19:52] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: Turning up late today since I was eating, but the usual question, are youi going to play guitar today?
[19:53] <e8hffff> question, why doesn't the file manager open files and when will it
[19:53] <jdrab_> Cain_: but that's how open & free software works. if something does not work for you, fork or create something new.
[19:54] <sebsebseb> QUESTION: What t-shirt is that today?
[19:56] <sebsebseb> yes to guitar
[19:56] <neuro> sebsebseb: it's an EFF shirt
[19:56] <ryanhoots> YES to guitar! :D
[19:56] <Levan> How are Smart Scopes coming along ?? because last time I used it was horrible
[19:56] <opaijavai> yes to guitar
[19:56] <simion314> yes
[19:56] <who_me> yes
[19:56] <jeggy_> QUIESTION: when will Ubuntu will be run by 90% of the world?
[19:56] <neuro> EFF are awesome
[19:56] <Ordaz> velcro beard plays guitar
[19:56] <SuperHans_> no to guitar, dance instead.
[19:56] <e8hffff> Question:why doesn't the file manager open files and when will it
[19:56] <sebsebseb> EFF one of the Humble Bundle Chariites isn't it?
[19:56] <who_me> guitar time then :)
[19:56] <Cain_> Black or white coffee?
[19:56] <neuro> sebsebseb: yep
[19:56] <ankalus> yes to guitar!
[19:56] <e8hffff> QUESTION:why doesn't the file manager open files and when will it
[19:56] <pinguy> QUESTION: Will GTK run under xmir?
[19:56] <sebsebseb> well in that case I have donated to then loads of times
[19:57] <Ordaz> question: what do you want for xmas
[19:57] <sabret00the> Question: When will we start seeing stuff from Ubuntu touch merged into desktop?
[19:57] <snwh> QUESTION: how much plastic does a plasticchuck chuck?
[19:57] <ader1990> how much coffee do you need daily?
[19:57] <opaijavai> Prevision for unity8 is the 14.04 or 14.10?
[19:57] <DS_McGuire> QUESTION: Ubuntu Tablet... That is being focused on after mobile, right?
[19:58] <trobert2> play that!
[19:58] <Levan> sorry I loged in late have you talked about intel and you know mir
[19:58] <Ordaz> noted
[19:58] <sebsebseb> oh yeah that's a point the
[19:58] <sebsebseb> intel mir stuff
[19:58] <sebsebseb> Levan: can look back trhough the video later? I am late today to
[19:58] <RobbieNor> QUESTION: Is it possible to force 13.10 to use xmir instead of mir, instead of gpu detection?
[19:59] <neuro> that looks suspiciously like jono's old G5 in the background
[20:00] <e8hffff> QUESTION: So Ubuntu Touch wont use MIME file assoociations to launch content to their appropriate apps?
[20:00] <ubuntut> It's Schecter! :D
[20:00] <sebsebseb> turn the volume up! :d
[20:00] <neuro> again, mister crappy computer mic is getting killed :)
[20:01] <Cain_> Very little to hear - you saturated the mic.
[20:01] <Ordaz> mic is shit
[20:01] <neuro> sebsebseb: any louder and the mic will clip hard
[20:01] <sebsebseb> neuro: I meant our speakers :d
[20:01] <Ordaz> poor mike
[20:01] <sebsebseb> oh sounds so much better now that I turned mine up :d
[20:01] <sebsebseb> yeah the microphone isn't likeing it :d
[20:01] <neuro> poor mic + overcompressed audio ... we need jono to play over some wideband codecs!
[20:01] <Ordaz> sounds like listening to music with your head under the water in the bath
[20:01] <neuro> lol
[20:02] <DS_McGuire> This should be the login sound for Ubuntu!!!!
[20:02] <neuro> lol
[20:02] <sebsebseb> DS_McGuire: people say that pretty much every time, when he plays :d
[20:02] <DS_McGuire> It should last like 5 minutes and be impossible to turn down!
[20:03] <ubuntut> composer from Mass Effect want to create new login sound for Ubuntu!
[20:03] <Zoiaguyver> RobbieNor:  A lot are asking that question in the forums aswell, the simple answer is no. Xmir is part of Mir.. You can force 13.10 to use Xmir/Mir or X.org
[20:03] <sabret00the> Thanks for that Jono, that was awesome.
[20:03] <ubuntut> go to OMG Ubuntu for info
[20:03] <e8hffff> QUESTION: So Ubuntu Touch wont use MIME file assoociations to launch content to their appropriate apps?  Btw the guitar sounds good
[20:03] <ubuntut> Schecter :D
[20:03] <neuro> jono: you need to get the guitar into your audio chain for hangouts so we can ... hahaha jinx
[20:03] <DS_McGuire> Awesome :D
[20:03] <RobbieNor> Cheers Jono! :D
[20:04] <DS_McGuire> Until next week folks!
[20:04] <sebsebseb> where is jono going?
[20:04] <e8hffff> Cheers
[20:04] <Zoiaguyver> Cheers Jono, I was late but meh :( lol
[20:04] <neuro> for next time, let's think up some seriously offensive questions ;)
[20:05] <who_me> thanks Jono!
[20:05] <wellsb> Thanks, Jono
[20:05] <DS_McGuire> See ya!
[20:05] <jono> thanks all!
[20:05] <jono> neuro, ;-)
[20:05] <neuro> jono: cheers mate
[20:05] <jono> neuro, :-)
[20:05] <neuro> "does the carpet match the drapes", for example
[20:05] <neuro> or "do you eat your own toe jam"
[20:06] <neuro> or "why do you know so much about woodchucks, hmmmmmmm?"
[20:06] <neuro> just thinkin' out loud ...
[20:08] <selliot> QUESTION: does redhat even have community manager?
[20:09] <sebsebseb> selliot: yeah uhmm  I think Adam Willaimson may be the one for Redhat/Fedora not suire quite
[20:09] <neuro> i thought it was Lesley Hawthorn
[20:10] <neuro> err, Leslie
[20:10] <neuro> oh, she left
[20:14] <bashrc> Bon voyage jono


[00:59] <sonich2401> hello
[01:18] <Cool> hi
[08:26] <Swayam_> hi
[09:40] <Swayam__> hi
[10:52] <awesomeroks> hello
[15:21] <hoho> hi
[15:41] <Dragos> hi
[15:51] <terobero> anyone online?
[16:03] <mridu__> Hi, I am Mridu. I am new to this channel. I am interested in contributing to ubuntu docs.
[16:06] <mridu__> I recently explored crontab. And found there is an open issue for that https://github.com/canonical-websites/tutorials.ubuntu.com/issues/521. But, it is not labelled tutorials content.
[16:07] <mridu__> Can I work on this?
[16:29] <pleia2> mridu__: you might want to join #ubuntu-google /cc popey
[16:29] <pleia2> the folks organizing the code-in work are there :)
[16:30] <mridu__> It's not tagged as google code-in :) . An I am not eligible for google code in. :)
[16:31] <pleia2> ok, not sure how you found your way here then, but we don't work on tutorials.ubuntu.com
[16:31] <pleia2> this channel is for work on help.ubuntu.com
[16:32] <pleia2> looks like the tutorials folks communicate mostly through GitHub?
[16:42] <mridu__> oh okay. Sorry for that. I found out a tweet. Regarding contributing to docs. https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-guidelines#9.
[16:43] <mridu__> Step 9 said ubuntu-doc so, I happen to ping here.
[16:44] <pleia2> good to know :) thanks for pointing that out
[16:49] <mridu__> :)
[23:22] <hp732m> hi...
[23:24] <hp732m> I see the page about ubuntu-docs, and please tell if that could be a good idea about traduce some docs to spanish
[23:28] <hp732m> that could be a good idea?


[00:02] <SP33D> such shit now i broke the whole system
[00:02] <SP33D> sudo depends on that folders
[00:02] <penguin42> don't say I didn't warn you
[00:03] <SP33D> its already over lol
[00:03] <SP33D> i need to boot in recovery mode and try to mount the backup
[00:03] <SP33D> lol
[00:05] <SP33D> you didn't warned me man
[00:05] <SP33D> thats why my system is now broken
[00:05] <SP33D> plz email your full contact details to my lawyer and prepare for getting sued :D
[00:05] <penguin42> SP33D: Sure, that's<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[00:06] <penguin42> SP33D: So I take it your / partition is too small?
[00:06] <penguin42> or have you got a seperate /usr ?
[00:07] <penguin42> or should that be, did you have....
[00:12] <ikonia> SP33D: could you please try to keep the language clean.
[00:33] <unfo> Hi all!  I am running Debian.  Could someone running Ubuntu+1 please open a shell, type "help", and paste the output in #unpaste?
[00:34] <penguin42> why - that comes from bash?
[00:34] <unfo> penguin42:  I will explain.
[00:34] <unfo> penguin42:  after I compare :)
[00:35] <penguin42> unfo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/8228120/
[00:37] <penguin42> unfo: That's from bash 4.3-9ubuntu1  which suggests there is an ubuntu patch in there
[00:38] <unfo> penguin42:  ok, thank you very much.  I now see that Ubuntu's bash help is just as obscure as Debian's bash help.
[00:38] <unfo> The explanation:  I was hoping for something like "Welcome to the Unix command line.  This is the Unix equivalent of the Windows Command Prompt.  There are many commands you can use, like cd, ls, cp, mv, and cat."
[00:38] <penguin42> unfo: No, that 'help' is part of the bash command
[00:38] <penguin42> unfo: and just provides help on bash's builtins
[00:39] <unfo> penguin42:  well, if someone is using Terminal, and they're stuck, and the have no clue how to display the contents of a directory, then "help" won't help them.
[00:39] <unfo> Only "ls" can help them.  And if they don't know to type "ls":  well, I guess they had better Google.
[00:41] <penguin42> unfo: Yes, although that's a very big space to describe; the best you could do would be to point to some tutorial
[00:43] <unfo> penguin42:  you could teach ls and cat, and then point to some tutorial "for more information".
[00:43] <penguin42> unfo: Yes, technically you don't need to install ls with bash which makes the dependency a  little tricky; the bash guys prefer having stuff in the 'info' command
[00:43] <penguin42> (I think)
[00:44] <penguin42> way way way back in the early days of unix (at the end of the 70s) there was a 'learn' command installed which did that basic type of intro
[00:44] <shadeslayer> anyone running Kubuntu utopic here?
[00:44] <unfo> shadeslayer:  Hi!
[00:44] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Here
[00:44] <unfo> !anyone
[00:44] <unfo> penguin42:  They do prefer 'info'.  It may be possible to install bash without ls, but it's unlikely.
[00:44] <penguin42> unfo: Agreed
[00:45] <unfo> penguin42:  A rare embedded system might have that.  Very rare.
[00:45] <penguin42> shadeslayer: What is the nature of your kubuntu utopic question
[00:45] <unfo> !tell shadeslayer about anyone
[00:46] <penguin42> unfo: Yeh and even then they normally have something basic, but still you'll have a hard time persuading bash to change it; an alias in the standard ubuntu bashrc might make sense?
[00:46] <shadeslayer> unfo: penguin42 have you guys noticed IO performance improvements over the last copy of days?
[00:46] <penguin42> shadeslayer: No, but this kubuntu utopic box doesn't do heavy IO
[00:47] <penguin42> shadeslayer: I did notice an odd graphics glitch in todays boot though
[00:47] <shadeslayer> penguin42: oh?
[00:48] <shadeslayer> can't say we've touched that part in the last couple of days
[00:48] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Yeh just as I was dragging a window into it's god-given position (Framework 5 seems to be even worse at saving window layout)
[00:48] <shadeslayer> oh, you're using Plasma 5?
[00:48] <penguin42> nod
[00:48] <penguin42> (but I doubt that would do much to IO performance...)
[00:48] <SP33D> penguin42 only to inform you i am back :D
[00:49]  * penguin42 gulps
[00:49] <SP33D> thx to my usb stick :D backup ;)
[00:50] <unfo> !anyone is Please do not ask if anyone can help you, knows 'something' or uses 'some_program'. Instead, ask your real question. See also: <!ask> <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#before>
[00:51] <shadeslayer> I think you have to be a op
[00:51] <penguin42> shadeslayer: I have this nice screen layout with 3 IRC windows and a shell , and it just never returns in the same order
[00:52] <shadeslayer> penguin42: I see, have you checked if you can reproduce it on the weekly neon5 ISO's
[00:52] <shadeslayer> penguin42: http://files.kde.org/snapshots/neon5-latest.iso
[00:53] <unfo> shadeslayer:  the bot forwarded my edit-request to #ubuntu-ops for consideration.
[00:53] <penguin42> shadeslayer: I haven't - is that in principal more upto date than the ppas?
[00:53] <shadeslayer> unfo: aha ok, didn't know it did that
[00:53] <shadeslayer> penguin42: yes
[00:53] <shadeslayer> penguin42: that's latest git
[00:53] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Oh, right
[00:54] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Might be a bit tricky to setup an equivalent VM but I'll give it a go; are you using 5 ?
[00:54] <shadeslayer> penguin42: I'm using Neon :)
[00:54] <shadeslayer> I'm thinking of getting a SSD, so I have to install utopic at some point
[00:54] <penguin42> I keep meaning to attack the screenlocker and add a way to blank the screen
[00:55] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Get an SSD, they're ludicrously quick to boot; but get a good make
[00:55] <shadeslayer> yeah, one of the Samsung/Intels
[00:55] <shadeslayer> lets see
[00:55] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Yeh
[00:55] <unfo> penguin42:  why not a Seagate Momentus XT?
[00:55] <shadeslayer> still on the fence
[00:55] <shadeslayer> I have a 3 year old laptop
[00:55] <shadeslayer> that could die any moment
[00:55] <penguin42> unfo: That the cached disk?
[00:55] <unfo> penguin42:  yep.
[00:55] <shadeslayer> pondering about investing more into it
[00:56] <unfo> penguin42:  it comes with some gigabytes of flash, for cache purposes.  My cousin bought one.  It worked perfectly.
[00:56] <penguin42> unfo: On my main machine I have the ssd and I have a separate hard disk; the OS and /home on the SSD and then I use the spinny disk for big stuff
[00:56] <unfo> penguin42:  a waste of effort.  You could use one Momentus XT for all partitions.
[00:56] <penguin42> unfo: Except I already had the hard drive when I added the ssd and it's a desktop system so it was easier
[00:57] <unfo> penguin42:  fair.
[00:57] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Nearly got that iso :-)
[00:57] <shadeslayer> :D
[00:57] <penguin42> 6.44MB/s is going some
[00:58] <unfo> shadeslayer:  A Momentus XT is probably a better buy than an SSD.
[00:58] <unfo> shadeslayer:  Read the reviews.
[00:58] <unfo> shadeslayer:  They work well.
[00:58] <shadeslayer> jebus
[00:58] <shadeslayer> 1TB
[00:59] <penguin42> shadeslayer: It's a hard drive + SSD cache in one thing that just looks to the host like a disc
[00:59] <unfo> shadeslayer:  it comes with firmware which handles all the caching.
[01:00] <shadeslayer> oh wo
[01:00] <shadeslayer> this is cheap
[01:00] <penguin42> shadeslayer: But it's only about 8GB of flash
[01:00] <shadeslayer> I think one of my colleagues has something like this
[01:01] <unfo> penguin42:  but 8GB is enough to hold the basic daily-use parts of any OS, including the office suite plus web browser.
[01:01] <shadeslayer> idk, I have a macbook pro 2011, and I can get a hybrid case
[01:01] <shadeslayer> so I can have 2 storage mediums
[01:01] <penguin42> shadeslayer: wth is the passowrd for the live session user?
[01:01] <shadeslayer> if I remove my CD drive
[01:02] <shadeslayer> penguin42: nothing, just login
[01:02] <penguin42> oh yeh, it didn't want to do that at first
[01:02] <shadeslayer> oh? 0.o
[01:02] <shadeslayer> it should just work
[01:02] <penguin42> hmm, it's very upset by running in vmvga card
[01:02] <shadeslayer> yeah
[01:03] <shadeslayer> you probably want to switch to TTY2 and back to TTY1
[01:03] <shadeslayer> plasma 5 isn't meant for virtualized hw yet
[01:03] <shadeslayer> since it's all QML2 and GPU accelerated and magic
[01:03] <shadeslayer> and ponies
[01:03] <shadeslayer> and unicorns
[01:03] <shadeslayer> can't forget the unicorns
[01:03] <unfo> shadeslayer:  the biggest Momentus XT is 4 terabytes.  But that's a 3.5" hard drive.
[01:04] <shadeslayer> @_@
[01:04] <shadeslayer> unfo: but like I said
[01:04] <shadeslayer> I could have all my data that I don't really use on my current HDD and buy a SSD + Hybrid case
[01:04] <unfo> shadeslayer:  you can.  You'd then have to manually move data back and forth between the two volumes.
[01:04] <unfo> shadeslayer:  A hassle, but doable.
[01:05] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Is that installable or is it only live on that iso?
[01:05] <shadeslayer> symlinks
[01:05] <shadeslayer> symlinks ftw :P
[01:05] <shadeslayer> penguin42: yes
[01:05] <shadeslayer> penguin42: search for install from kickoff or krunner
[01:05] <penguin42> ok, will do
[01:07] <unfo> shadeslayer:  alternatively, you could buy an SSD and set yourself up with one of the Linux equivalents of Microsoft ReadyBoost.  bcache or dm-cache both offer such functionality.
[01:07] <unfo> penguin42:  ever tried one of those?
[01:08] <penguin42> unfo: No, I just install the OS on the SSD
[01:08] <unfo> penguin42:  I guess it's less effort.
[01:11] <unfo> penguin42:  Western Digital does manufacture hybrid hard drives with more than 8GB of flash.  But as you add more flash, the law of diminishing returns starts to apply.
[01:11] <unfo> penguin42:  there's more information at <http://enwp.org/Hybrid_drive>.
[01:12] <penguin42> unfo: Yeh, tbh I don't like the idea of the lack of control
[01:14] <unfo> penguin42:  it just works.  It controls itself perfectly, so you don't _have_ to control it.
[01:14] <unfo> Although I guess the kind of people who like buying SSD are big fans of fine-grained control.
[01:16] <penguin42> shadeslayer: It's interesting they're using QtCurve as the default Gtk style; it makes sense, Oxygen-gtk has never been stable for me
[01:16] <shadeslayer> actually ...
[01:16] <shadeslayer> that's probably not QtCurve
[01:16] <shadeslayer> they're making their own
[01:16] <penguin42> it says it is!
[01:16] <shadeslayer> ok
[01:17] <shadeslayer> then it hasn't landed on the ISO yet
[01:17] <shadeslayer> maybe this week
[01:17] <shadeslayer> penguin42: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=120628
[01:18] <penguin42> shadeslayer: I really do need to look at the lock screen, it really annoys me
[01:18] <shadeslayer> please send feedback via forums to the VDG! :D
[01:18] <shadeslayer> it's extremely useful
[01:18] <penguin42> vdg?
[01:18] <shadeslayer> KDE has a Visual Design Group
[01:18] <shadeslayer> that is steering the look of Plasma 5
[01:19] <shadeslayer> ( instead of letting developers go mental )
[01:20] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Actually, the look I'm ok with, my problem is I want a way to blank the display on demand
[01:22] <SP33D> can i use this qt styling stuff at present
[01:22] <SP33D> when i am on utopic?
[01:24] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Generally I like the new style ( a bit too close to looking like MS in some ways) but it's still a little buggy
[01:25] <shadeslayer> blank displays on demand?
[01:25] <shadeslayer> so like, you hit a key combo and the screen turns off?
[01:25] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Yeh, say I'm at the lockscreen, I want that to go black
[01:25] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Yeh
[01:26] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Two use cases
[01:26] <shadeslayer> file a bug report?
[01:26] <shadeslayer> could you do that in KDE4?
[01:26] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Yeh I've got half a feeling I did a long time ago and it was closed, I might try again
[01:26] <penguin42> shadeslayer: No you couldn't on 4
[01:26] <shadeslayer> ok, just curious
[01:26] <penguin42> shadeslayer: but 4's advanced screen locker did have a mode which was very configurable you could set as almost completely blank
[01:26] <penguin42> (albeit was hopelessly insecure)
[01:27] <shadeslayer> as for the bug report, propose use cases on the bug report and if it's within reason, the devs should implement it
[01:27] <penguin42> shadeslayer: My 2 use cases are 1) Your watching TV and you accidentally knock the mouse and you have the monitor glaring at you   and 2) When blanking doesn't work automatically (like with synergy)
[01:33] <penguin42> shadeslayer: I'm pleasently surprised to see it's still working on non-GL chipsets (e.g. my VM)
[01:34] <shadeslayer> it'll 'work'
[01:34] <shadeslayer> till it doesn't
[01:34] <shadeslayer> it's not really a tested config
[01:34] <shadeslayer> I've seen backtraces that go into vbox dri drivers
[01:34] <shadeslayer> those are fun
[01:35] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Pity, because IMHO it works a lot better than Gnome3 in a KVM guest
[01:35] <shadeslayer> penguin42: well, can't be helped
[01:35] <shadeslayer> but I hear KVM is getting openGL support
[01:35] <shadeslayer> so maybe it'll work properly then
[01:35] <penguin42> I don't think in the near future to be honest
[01:36] <penguin42> there is the Virgil work but I wouldn't expect it any time soon
[01:36] <shadeslayer> yeah
[01:36] <shadeslayer> lets see
[01:39] <penguin42> they want stuff filed on bugs.kde.org I assume?
[01:43] <shadeslayer> penguin42: yes
[01:43] <shadeslayer> alternatively
[01:43] <shadeslayer> kde.fail :p
[01:44]  * shadeslayer goes back to hacking on Qt
[01:44] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Oh wow
[01:46] <shadeslayer> penguin42: kde.fail ? :D
[01:46] <penguin42> yes
[01:46] <shadeslayer> yeah, it's a bit funny ^_^
[01:46] <penguin42> shadeslayer: That is the single best tld I'm aware of
[01:46] <shadeslayer> haha
[01:47] <shadeslayer> www.tipthismuch.in is pretty cool as well
[01:48] <shadeslayer> penguin42: btw http://kde.sexy/
[01:48] <shadeslayer> KDE has fun TLD's :p
[01:58] <penguin42> shadeslayer: My original bug was kde bug 311116
[01:59] <shadeslayer> penguin42: so the idea seems sane, but just that it wasn't properly implemented
[01:59] <shadeslayer> penguin42: mind reporting that again ?
[01:59] <shadeslayer> but this time against plasmashell
[02:00] <penguin42> ah it's in the shell now?
[02:00] <shadeslayer> well, I think
[02:00] <shadeslayer> I don't remember components and products off the top of my head
[02:00] <penguin42> sheesh what use  :-)
[02:01] <shadeslayer> I actually don't see something good for this
[02:02] <shadeslayer> penguin42: just report against plasmashell/general
[02:02] <shadeslayer> and then someone should move it to the right product/component
[02:04] <penguin42> shadeslayer: kde bug 338796
[02:04] <shadeslayer> cheers
[02:05]  * shadeslayer heads to bed
[02:05] <penguin42> yeh that's not a bad idea; it's passed 3am :-)
[02:05] <shadeslayer> penguin42: fwiw that might go into kscreen
[02:05] <shadeslayer> since kscreen can blank screens
[02:06] <shadeslayer> and kscreen is now part of workspaces
[02:06] <penguin42> ok, lets see what happens
[02:06] <shadeslayer> and it has a kded module running
[02:06] <shadeslayer> yeah
[02:06] <penguin42> shadeslayer: Thanks for your pointers
[02:06] <shadeslayer> penguin42: UTC? :P
[02:06] <shadeslayer> np
[02:06] <penguin42> shadeslayer: UTC+1
[02:06] <penguin42> (UK)
[02:06] <shadeslayer> ah yeah that
[02:07]  * shadeslayer has a flight in 8 hours for Akademy \o/
[02:07] <penguin42> have fun
[02:07] <shadeslayer> AKA sleep deprivation and drunkenness for a week
[02:07] <penguin42> I'm sure we'll see lots of patches then....
[02:07] <shadeslayer> haha
[02:07] <shadeslayer> I hope so too
[02:08] <shadeslayer> #breaktheci
[10:57] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:49] <cjohnston> Hello, I upgraded to 14.10 last night from 14.04... My laptop is now fairly un-usable.. Nothing in the top right corner is showing up (date/time, icons, etc).. The unity bar on the left shows up with all the icons I expect, however I can't open any of the apps, nor the dash.. Tried something like ctrl alt T to open the terminal to no avail.. If I switch to a different console, I'm able to login, and I'm
[11:49] <cjohnston> looking through the logs now but so far don't see anything.. any thoughts?
[11:50] <penguin42> cjohnston: have you tried doing an apt-get update   and apt-get dist-upgrade from the console just to see if it's fixed already?
[11:50] <cjohnston> penguin42: no updates available
[11:52] <penguin42> cjohnston: Does it work as the guest user ?
[11:55] <cjohnston> let me try
[11:55] <cjohnston> before logging in, everything appears correct, I see the time and date, network indicator, etc
[11:56] <cjohnston> guest appears the same as my regular user
[11:56] <penguin42> hmm, that's a pity
[11:57] <penguin42> cjohnston: what graphics card?
[11:59] <cjohnston> hrm. this time when logging into a different console I see a couple systemd issues, but they aren't providing a ton of info
[12:02] <penguin42> cjohnston: There are a few systemd warnings even on working systems
[12:02] <cjohnston> penguin42: NVIDIA NVS 5400M
[12:04] <penguin42> cjohnston: Did you previously have the nvidia closed drivers installed?
[12:08] <penguin42> cjohnston: They tend to break on upgrade; so I'd try uninstalling from the command line and seeing if it survives ok on the open drivers and then if there are new closed drivers for utopic (not sure if they're ready yet)  reinstall them
[12:14] <BluesKaj> cjohnston, I'm using the nvidia-331-updates driver and it seems to work ok on KDE except for the login page not loading, but startx gets me to the desktop. How 331-updates will behave on Unity is another matter though.
[12:17] <BluesKaj> cjohnston, are you running Optimus graphics ?
[12:24] <cjohnston> BluesKaj: that is the card, yes
[12:26] <cjohnston> BluesKaj: penguin42 I have xserver-xorg-video-nouveau and libdrm-nouveau2 installed..  nothing nvidia-...
[12:26] <BluesKaj> so you have an intel and a nvidia dual gpu system?
[12:26] <cjohnston> The graphics seem to work fine, the display looks correct except for missing the notification stuff..
[12:26] <cjohnston> no
[12:26] <BluesKaj> ok
[12:27] <BluesKaj> nouveau is the default nvidia driver on ubuntu , usually works quite well
[12:28] <cjohnston> yup
[12:31] <cjohnston> ya, I don't think it's anything to do with the graphics.. :-/
[12:31] <cjohnston> logs don't seem overly helpful either
[12:35] <elfy> BluesKaj: pretty sure that's a lightdm update to .8 - install with that I need startx - this install with everything BUT lightdm updated works fine
[12:40] <BluesKaj> elfy, ok thanks for the heads up, logging in from the VT isn't a big deal until the fix comes down
[12:41] <elfy> bug 1365336 if you want to me too it :)
[12:45] <BluesKaj> actually the pc boots directly to the VT login , as if lightdm doesn't even exist
[12:46] <elfy> yea think so here
[12:46] <elfy> I meant I'd logged into tty1
[12:47] <elfy> I'll reword it
[12:47] <BluesKaj> yeah the tty or vt as I was informed by a guru
[12:48] <elfy> :)
[12:48] <BluesKaj> vt=virtual terminal ///what the difference is
[12:48] <elfy> no idea :)
[12:49] <BluesKaj> forgotten rather
[12:49] <elfy> guru's can guru if they want - as long as they understand my no guru I'm fine with that :p
[12:50] <BluesKaj> anyway I was corrected with vigour :)
[12:51] <BluesKaj> elfy, well you know how picky some of these ADD geeks can be :)
[12:51] <elfy> :)
[12:53] <BluesKaj> I got booted from #ubuntu for calling one of them a "correction troll"
[12:54] <BluesKaj> banned actually
[12:59] <elfy> well - that's likely to happen in ubuntu space channels
[13:00] <BluesKaj> it was personal IMO, but I don't miss the chat much since ubuntu is becoming so different vs kubuntu now
[13:01] <elfy> I don't use that channel - didn't when I used ubuntu
[13:01] <elfy> has it's place of course
[13:07] <cjohnston> BluesKaj, penguin42 I just tried a livecd and it is the same there
[13:08] <penguin42> cjohnston: Sounds like they broke it then
[13:08] <BluesKaj> cjohnston, seems to me your upgrades and dist-upgrades didn't work
[13:09] <cjohnston> BluesKaj: if it's broken on the live cd, I don't think your statement makes sense
[13:10] <BluesKaj> the ugrades fix the existing problem that the livecd has
[13:11] <BluesKaj> so your install isn't upgraded
[13:11] <elfy> cjohnston: I'[ve got the same issue with live sessions - it has the lightdm updated
[13:11] <BluesKaj> live cd are seldom up to date, cjohnston
[13:12] <BluesKaj> err cds
[13:18] <cjohnston> BluesKaj: I'm on 1.11.8-0ubuntu1 for lightdm
[13:19] <cjohnston> elfy: you were saying you need to run
[13:19] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Well, except for the nightlies
[13:19] <cjohnston> 'startx' to work with that version?
[13:19] <cjohnston> I downloaded the 20140904 daily..
[13:21] <BluesKaj> cjohnston, same lightdm here, but I run kde so who what the problem could be , I just get an error saying service 1000 unknown then it boots to the VT/TTY login
[13:22] <BluesKaj> who knows
[13:23] <BluesKaj> I haven't checked the logs yet since it's on a different pc
[13:23] <cjohnston> BluesKaj: I do see that
[13:24] <cjohnston> hmm.. nouveau MMIO read of 0x00000000 FAULT at 0x002140 [ !ENGINE ]
[13:34] <BluesKaj> cjohnston, unfortunately I don't see any errors regarding lightdm in /var/log/syslog, however nvidia-331-updates driver shows as activated ..I switched from nouveau because it wasn't working well virtual desktops on kde
[13:35] <penguin42> BluesKaj: lightdm errors normally land in /var/log/lightdm
[13:49] <BluesKaj> oops sorry , lightdm logs says user1000 added then it says user 1000 changed and that's all]
[13:51] <penguin42> that is the last message in my lightdm.log - but is that all you've got?
[13:51] <cjohnston> elfy: fwiw, the systemd-shim bug report, that version (7-2) is still in proposed... so unless you have utopic-proposed, it isn't your bug..
[13:51] <cjohnston> I am still on 7-1
[13:59] <BluesKaj_> penguin42, http://paste.kde.org/pxyfhfzul\
[14:00] <BluesKaj_> err http://paste.kde.org/pxyfhfzul
[14:00] <penguin42> oh weird
[14:01] <penguin42> BluesKaj_: So the only difference in the lines we've actually got is that I see you've got a /usr/local/share/lightdm.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
[14:01] <penguin42> BluesKaj_: Can you do a dpkg -S   on that to see where it comes from?
[14:03] <BluesKaj_> no path found
[14:03] <penguin42> what's in it?
[14:05] <BluesKaj_> krunner says the path doesn't exist either
[14:06] <BluesKaj_> also tried /usr/local/share/lightdm.conf.d , but it's not valid
[14:08] <penguin42> BluesKaj_: Sorry, the path is /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/90-nvidia.conf
[14:09] <BluesKaj_>  /usr/local/share seems to have a series of empty folders
[14:09] <penguin42> BluesKaj_: Do you have the Nvidia drivers installed?
[14:10] <BluesKaj_> penguin42, ok , http://paste.kde.org/po8fghffs
[14:11] <penguin42> BluesKaj_: I'm assuming that's coming from some Nvidia installed package - I'd try removing it....
[14:12] <BluesKaj_> yes the nvidia-331-updates driver the recommended nvidia-331 driver doesn't load, altho i don't see it blacklisted...think the kernel module was removed
[14:12] <penguin42> my guess is you've still got bits of the packages left over like that one
[14:13] <BluesKaj_> nvidia-331-updates driver and the regular 331 are obviously diffeent bersions of the same kernel module
[14:13] <BluesKaj_> verwions
[14:14] <BluesKaj_> where's my glasses
[14:15] <elfy> cjohnston: I know which version of -shim I have here - I said in bug report " no -shim upgrade available here unless I allow -proposed repos - so error here is apparently only lightdm"
[14:16] <cjohnston> elfy: did anything else upgrade when you upgraded lightdm? I switched from 14.04 to 14.10 so I have no idea what else may have been new
[14:16] <BluesKaj_> penguin42, well I prefer using the 331-updates over the nouveau ...the nouveau doesn't work well with my desktop preferences/effects ..logging in from the VT/TTY isn't a problem for me.
[14:17] <elfy> cjohnston: heh - I had a bunch of updates - BUT I have 2 installs here, one with everything BUT lightdm updated one with all updated - the one with the old lightdm boots properly
[14:17] <cjohnston> gotcha... I downgraded lightdm and rebooted and it still isn't working
[14:19] <BluesKaj_> ok , back to the laptop
[14:45] <BluesKaj> penguin42, cjohnston I have no issues with the newest version of lightdm  on this intel cpu and gpu laptop
[14:46] <cjohnston> ok
[14:49] <BluesKaj> lightdm must have an API problem with nvidia drivers including nouveau
[14:54] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Well maybe, I'm just suspicious of that lightdm nvidia conf file, since it's only your lightdm that's broke I'd try taking that conf file out
[14:55] <BluesKaj> well i suppose it's worth a try
[14:57] <SwedeMike> ml
[15:05] <BluesKaj> penguin42, took that /90-nvidia.conf text file out , but there's no change during rebooting
[15:05] <penguin42> oh well, worth a try
[15:42] <rgouveia> hi ... i'm having a weird issue with thunar not respecting my default applications even though they are defined. pdfs are opened with gimp instead of evince. i did some troubleshooting and it seems to be using mimeinfo.cache to get this information
[15:42] <rgouveia> even weirder is that if i open thunar /path/to/pdf on the terminal it opens with evince
[15:43] <rgouveia> running python -c 'import gio; print gio.app_info_get_all_for_type("application/pdf")' gives me gimp on the terminal
[15:43] <rgouveia> btw, this also happens with a newly created user
[15:43] <rgouveia> any ideas on what is going on ? :-)
[19:42] <daurnimator> anyone managed to run utopic under systemd-nspawn?
[19:42] <daurnimator> if you want to give it a try: mkdir utopic && sudo debootstrap --arch=amd64 utopic utopic http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ && sudo systemd-nspawn -D utopic
[19:43] <daurnimator> the first issue to show up is that dns resolution fails
[19:43] <daurnimator> which seems to be related to /run
[21:34] <daurnimator> https://asciinema.org/a/11947
[21:34] <daurnimator> ^^ if anyone can help
[21:38] <penguin42> for something that claims purely text based recording why is the playback so awful
[21:39] <Ampelbein> I can't watch it, no JS and too lazy to enable it.
[21:39] <daurnimator> why is it awful?
[21:41] <daurnimator> I can also pastebin the output if thats better
[21:41] <penguin42> daurnimator: It's displayed kind of huge, insists on playing back slow - I just want the text
[21:42] <daurnimator> sorry, the hugeness is just the size of my screen when I recorded it
[21:43] <daurnimator> to increase speed add ?speed=5 to the url to make it 5 times faster
[21:45] <penguin42> no, the size is due to the size that site decided to render it at rather than just presenting it as plain text back to us
[21:45] <daurnimator> http://codepad.org/GUWm9PU8 <== the failed spawn in pastebin form :)
[21:47] <penguin42> better, so it looks like it's the /dev/kmsg it's upset by
[21:48] <daurnimator> penguin42: googling around, the kmsg error doesn't seem to be a deal breaker
[21:48] <daurnimator> as in, its a warning, not an error
[22:02] <Sitting_Bullsht> ugh*


[18:08] <tienti_> :)
[19:52] <studio-user501> If I have Linux mint installed,  can I just install UBuntu Studio within that?
[19:54] <studio-user638> If I have Linuxmint  installed, can I install Ubuntu Studio?
[20:41] <OvenWerks> thank you for sticking around long enough for someone to answer :P


[19:30] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: exo 4.15.2 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-exo-4-15-2-released-tp59373.html (by Simon Steinbeiss)
[21:11] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-appfinder 4.15.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-appfinder-4-15-1-released-tp59375.html (by Andre Miranda)
[21:21] <jphilips> bluesabre: any update about the rescheduled meeting
[22:00] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: thunar-volman 4.15.0 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-thunar-volman-4-15-0-released-tp59379.html (by Andre Miranda)


[12:52] <saikat123> hello
[14:29] <uros1> Hi people, need help please
[14:32] <alkisg> !question
[14:32] <uros1> ok tnx
[14:32] <uros1> a have this laptop http://www.intel.com/intel/learningseries.htm
[14:33] <uros1> and installed edubuntu 10.04 no errors
[14:33] <uros1> after reboot i have black screen
[14:33] <uros1> no Gui, no login screen at all
[14:34] <uros1> recovery mode stops on USB Mass Storage support registred
[14:34] <uros1> and hanging there
[14:34] <uros1> sorry for bad english
[14:36] <highvoltage> hey uros1
[14:36] <uros1> hey
[14:37] <highvoltage> how much ram does your classmate have? if it installed it should be fine, but they usually ship with very little don't they?
[14:38] <uros1> in this computer 9.04 work out of box
[14:38] <uros1> i dont know, let me see
[14:39] <uros1> no not ram 1gb
[14:40] <uros1> this classmate is part of educational program here in belgrade we have 1400 computers to install edubuntu
[14:40] <uros1> 9.04 work out of box, but we need 10.04
[14:41]  * stgraber didn't try running edubuntu on his classmate for a long long time :)
[14:41] <stgraber> it's one of the old (and really slow) classmates
[14:41] <highvoltage> stgraber: is that one like you've got?
[14:42] <uros1> yes
[14:42] <uros1> same
[14:42] <stgraber> highvoltage: nah, uros1's seems better (bigger screen, more ram and probably decent CPU)
[14:43] <uros1> for kids in elementary schools in my municipality
[14:43] <stgraber> uros1: so the live environment works fine but you can't boot on the installed system ?
[14:43] <uros1> yes
[14:43] <uros1> install run just fine no error at all
[14:43] <stgraber> uros1: is it possible that it's a bios option ? like it's currently trying to boot from USB only and won't boot to SATA ?
[14:44] <uros1> first reboot stuck on USB Mass Storage support registred
[14:44] <uros1> frum pen drive
[14:44] <uros1> from pen drive
[14:44] <uros1> live work fine
[14:44] <uros1> maybe something with ssd disk inside?
[14:45] <highvoltage> uros1:
[14:45] <highvoltage> 09:35 < uros1> recovery mode stops on USB Mass Storage support registred
[14:45] <uros1> yes
[14:46] <highvoltage> uros1: ^^^ is that the recovery mode that you get when booting from the installed system? (from grub?)
[14:46] <uros1> thats last visible line,
[14:46] <uros1> grub appeard just fine
[14:47] <uros1> now i boot from pen drive to see error log on disk, nothing
[14:48] <highvoltage> uros1: do you know how to boot it up without "quiet" and "splash" as kernel arguements?
[14:48] <uros1> yes
[14:49] <highvoltage> uros1: I suggest you try that, there may be some useful error message that's suppresse
[14:49] <highvoltage> *suppressed
[14:49] <uros1> ok lets go
[14:52] <highvoltage> uros1: your nick looks familiar, you've been here before right?
[14:53] <uros1> yes last year with 9.04
[14:53] <highvoltage> ah yes
[14:53] <uros1> i`m memeber of serbian LoCo
[14:54] <uros1> we are still managing to support edubuntu program
[14:54] <uros1> just same still stops on USB storage
[14:57] <highvoltage> uros1: ogra has lots of experience with various classmates, but I think he's asleep at the moment, if you hang around a bit he might be able to be of assistance
[14:57] <uros1> ok cool
[14:59] <highvoltage> uros1: how are you going to roll them out? are you going to create an image and flash them all?
[14:59] <uros1> yes ghost on server
[15:00] <highvoltage> uros1: in the meantime, it might be useful to try and install a minimal system on that machine from the alternate CD (just command line, no gui) and see if that works. I don't think it's something edubuntu specific that's causing the problem, but it won't hurt to make sure
[15:00] <uros1> then go to schools, end class by slass
[15:01] <uros1> tonight i plan to do that
[16:58] <ogra> highvoltage, i only have experience with the two first gen classmates (the ones that werent ATOM based)


[11:51] <peetra> okej, so far, so good. :)
[21:19] <AlanBell> o/ Nafallo
[21:19] <Nafallo> yay \o/
[21:19] <AlanBell> #startmeeting
[21:19] <meetingology> Meeting started Sat Jan 22 21:19:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is AlanBell. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell.
[21:19] <meetingology> Useful Commands: #topic #action #link #idea #voters #vote #chair #action #agreed #help #info #endmeeting.
[21:19] <AlanBell> #topic foo
[21:19] <meetingology> TOPIC: foo
[21:19] <AlanBell> this is some discussion here
[21:20] <AlanBell> #topic bar
[21:20] <meetingology> TOPIC: bar
[21:20] <AlanBell> and some other stuff
[21:20] <AlanBell> #link http://ubuntu.com
[21:20] <AlanBell> it is quite quiet, it doesn't repeat stuff back to you randomly
[21:20] <Nafallo> that's a good thing surely :-)
[21:20] <amelia> :)
[21:20] <AlanBell> the idea is that it only talks when it has something to say
[21:21] <AlanBell> [vote] cake is nice
[21:21] <meetingology> Please vote on: cake is nice
[21:21] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[21:21] <Nafallo> +1
[21:21] <AlanBell> +1
[21:21] <meetingology> +1 received from Nafallo
[21:21] <meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
[21:21] <amelia> -1
[21:21] <meetingology> -1 received from amelia
[21:21] <AlanBell> #endvote
[21:21] <meetingology> Voting ended on: cake is nice
[21:21] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:1 Abstentions:0
[21:21] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:21] <AlanBell> #voters Nafallo AlanBell
[21:21] <meetingology> Current voters: AlanBell Nafallo
[21:21] <AlanBell> #vote chocolate is nice too
[21:21] <meetingology> Please vote on: chocolate is nice too
[21:21] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[21:21] <Nafallo> +1
[21:21] <meetingology> +1 received from Nafallo
[21:21] <AlanBell> +1
[21:21] <meetingology> +1 received from AlanBell
[21:22] <Nafallo> hmm. so that makes just us able to vote?
[21:22] <AlanBell> yup :)
[21:22] <amelia> -1
[21:22] <AlanBell> #endvote
[21:22] <amelia> i'll try. :)
[21:22] <meetingology> Voting ended on: chocolate is nice too
[21:22] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[21:22] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:22] <Nafallo> #action amelia to bake a cake
[21:22] <meetingology> ACTION: amelia to bake a cake
[21:22] <AlanBell> sudo bake a cake :)
[21:23] <amelia> Nafallo: bah, that's not very nice.. :( i can't eat cake..
[21:23] <Nafallo> hmm. what's this agreed thing? :-)
[21:23] <AlanBell> #agreed we all like cake
[21:23] <Nafallo> amelia: that's fine. I can eat it, I just can't bake it :-P
[21:23] <Nafallo> #info
[21:23] <Nafallo> #help info
[21:24] <AlanBell> #help volunteers needed to bake cakes
[21:24]  * Nafallo mumblles
[21:24] <AlanBell> #help doesn't actually give you any help
[21:24] <Nafallo> oh!
[21:24] <Nafallo> right.
[21:24] <AlanBell> it is a debian invention for "volunteers required"
[21:24] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[21:24] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Jan 22 21:24:31 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell . (v 0.1.4)
[21:24] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://mootbot.libertus.co.uk/ubuntu-se-mote/2011/ubuntu-se-mote.2011-01-22-21.19.moin.txt
[21:24] <Nafallo> and the #info would be information about something, not available on for instance, a link? :-)
[21:25] <AlanBell> something like that I think
[21:25] <Nafallo> sweet!
[21:25] <Nafallo> this should make things easier next meeting I hope :-)
[21:25] <AlanBell> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bots/ubuntu-bots/meetingology
[21:25] <AlanBell> code is there
[21:25] <AlanBell> patches very welcome :)
[21:26] <Nafallo> heh. kewl.
[21:28] <Nafallo> branched to my devel directory
[21:29] <Nafallo> AlanBell: thanks muchly for hosting it :-)
[21:30] <AlanBell> in theory as it is a supybot it could be added as a feature to the locobots
[21:31] <Nafallo> hmm. yeah, I guess.
[21:31] <AlanBell> that was the original plan
[21:32] <Nafallo> that'd actually be sweet, since jpds already host one of these on my hardware ;-)
[21:33] <Nafallo> lol. I forgot I've added my ~/devel to U1.. it's syncing the bot trunk now :-P
[21:43] <AlanBell> it can do multiple chairs as well
[21:43] <AlanBell> the chair can use certain commands like #topic that others can't
[21:43] <Nafallo> ehrm. why would you need that?
[21:43] <AlanBell> and all commands can be like #vote or [vote]
[21:44] <AlanBell> if the chair can't do the whole meeting and wants to hand over to someone else for example
[21:45] <Nafallo> right. I just it made more sense to actually swap chair :-)
[21:45] <Nafallo> +thought
[22:06] <virtuald> http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/0/0d/Couragewolf.jpg


[17:50] <ashish> Hi Guys
[17:50] <ashish> I have  a problem while installing jdk7 on my lubuntu machine
[17:51] <ashish> can any one help
[17:51] <ashish> Exception in thread Thread-1:
[17:51] <ashish> Traceback (most recent call last):
[17:51] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/threading.py", line 551, in __bootstrap_inner
[17:51] <ashish>     self.run()
[17:51] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/softwareproperties/ppa.py", line 99, in run
[17:51] <ashish>     self.add_ppa_signing_key(self.ppa_path)
[17:51] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/softwareproperties/ppa.py", line 132, in add_ppa_signing_key
[17:51] <ashish>     tmp_keyring_dir = tempfile.mkdtemp()
[17:51] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/tempfile.py", line 322, in mkdtemp
[17:51] <ashish>     name = names.next()
[17:51] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/tempfile.py", line 141, in next
[17:52] <ashish>     letters = [choose(c) for dummy in "123456"]
[17:52] <ashish>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/random.py", line 274, in choice
[17:52] <ashish>     return seq[int(self.random() * len(seq))]  # raises IndexError if seq is empty
[17:52] <ashish> ValueError: cannot convert float NaN to integer