[00:01] <psusi> what's the incantation to get emacs into the style mode of the kernel again?
[00:04] <Drakeson> psusi: ?
[00:04] <psusi> so it does things like use hard tabs to indent instead of 2 spaces
[00:05] <cjwatson> psusi: it's in Documentation/CodingStyle
[00:07] <Drakeson> is emacs-snapshot older than emacs23?
[00:15] <kklimonda> looks like it
[00:17] <ebroder> cjwatson: reading the foundations team logs. in addition to the packaging probably needing some love, i've tested not yet tested the whole patchset together (just the individual pieces). just fyi
[00:20] <cjwatson> ebroder: gotcha
[00:21] <cjwatson> been distracted by upstart/plymouth anyway
[01:04] <Drakeson> Was there a huge recent change regarding compiz and the indicators?  I don't seem to have the indicator applets anymore.
[01:19] <RAOF> Drakeson: There was the upload of compiz 0.9; that's a big compiz change.
[01:27] <psusi> well holy crap... I wrote a kernel patch and it compiled on the first try
[01:27] <psusi> now to see if it /works/ ;)
[01:43] <psusi> wow... it worked...
[01:53] <TheMuso> psusi: It must have been a one-liner. :)
[01:54] <psusi> TheMuso, heh, actually was adding a few bit flags that weren't defined to headers, then cloning some sysfs functions to export them and modifying them to work with the new flag
[01:55] <TheMuso> Well, close.
[01:58] <psusi> so not that much, but not exactly a one liner either... still amayzed it compiled AND worked on the first try
[02:01] <psusi> now to see if it correctly reports true for the external status of the esata port on my laptop... desktop doesn't have an external port...
[02:06] <psusi> AHAH!  IT WORKS!
[02:09] <psusi> cat /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1f.2/host2/scsi_host/host2/achi_port_external -> 1
[02:10] <chrisa> What package do I need to actually do a build-dep on to get all the dependencies of newer gccs? I can do build-dep gcc-4.1 for instance, but gcc-4.3, gcc, etc don't seem to work out
[02:20] <steev_> sorry to intrude, but to which channel would i go for assistance in packaging an application for ubuntu?
[02:23] <RAOF> steev_: Either #ubuntu-motu or here (if you're aim is to get the package into the official archives) or in #ubuntu-packaging if it's just for a PPA.
[02:25] <steev_> thanks RAOF
[02:53] <ebroder> does the intel driver do its own round of mode setting when X starts, even with KMS?
[02:54] <ebroder> (is this configurable somehow?)
[02:56] <RAOF> ebroder: No; once KMS is in use, the kernel is the only thing that can do modesetting without making everything fall down in a screaming heap.
[02:57] <ebroder> RAOF: hmm...ok, maybe i understand this less well than i thought. if i have an intel gfx machine, and i boot it with multiple monitors plugged in, KMS appears to set the mode correctly (and independently for the two monitors), then when X starts something switches it into cloned mode
[02:57] <RAOF> ebroder: That starting X *will* cause the X driver to probe available modes from the kernel, and then X will make its own decision as to the best mode, possibly triggering the intel driver to delegate a modeswitch to the kernel.
[02:57] <ebroder> ah, ok - right
[02:58] <ebroder> i'm wondering if this is a piece of why people think multi-monitor is so non-deterministic
[02:58] <RAOF> It is, a bit.
[02:59] <RAOF> Hm.  Actually, it might be reasonable to delegate the clone-setting to the DE / login manager.
[03:01] <ebroder> I don't suppose there's a way to change X's mode selection algorithm without hard-coding layouts and resolutions in xorg.conf?
[03:02] <ebroder> (I know we decided to always clone at UDS; I happen to have a scenario where I want to always extend)
[03:04] <RAOF> This is a case where delegating to gnome-settings-daemon would be the right thing to do.
[03:04] <ebroder> That would certainly be awesome
[03:05] <RAOF> Which is the X policy anyway.  I don't think there'd be a huge outcry against leaving the KMS-set mode until the settings daemon says otherwise.
[03:06] <ebroder> And it's not like there'd be anything to show in place of plymouth before then
[03:17] <RAOF> Right.
[03:58] <psusi> cjwatson, you around?  I'm not sure but it looks like dist-upgrade to natty is broken because grub2 depends on a natty version of base-files, but base-files depends on a natty version of grub2-common, so dist-upgrade can't upgrade...
[04:02] <psusi> weird.. third time is the charm I guess..
[04:19]  * psusi sighs at the number of times things like update-grub and update-initramfs are still run during a dist-upgrade, despite dpkg-triggers
[04:24] <freeflying> persia, ping
[04:26] <ebroder> psusi: update-grub isn't triggerized, is it?
[04:39] <c4pt> hi
[04:39] <c4pt> i was reading an log of this irc channel and i had a similar question to what i was reading
[04:40] <pipegeek> Hi, folks.  It looks like the kernel option CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE was disabled lucid => maverick.  Why was that done?  I have some very old binaries that are oss-only, some of which open /dev/sequencer explicitly and which no longer work
[04:40] <c4pt> YokoZar, hello, what do you think about updating the packaging of ia32-libs for mesa-dri-experimental? like it is done in xorg-edgers ppa
[04:40] <c4pt> ricotz
[04:40] <c4pt> ^^
[04:40] <pipegeek> Also, disabling CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE and friends breaks the oss-compat package.  I've filed a bug report
[04:40] <YokoZar> c4pt: for 11.04?  I think I'm still waiting on multiarch
[04:40] <pipegeek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/60987
[04:40] <c4pt> YokoZar, well i am trying to install this on debian
[04:40] <YokoZar> c4pt: relatedly I am putting together an ia32-libs update for the Wine PPA though
[04:41] <YokoZar> that will contain all the gstreamer codecs
[04:41] <YokoZar> yum
[04:41] <c4pt> YokoZar, and xorg-edgers breaks X11 pretty bad when i let apt-get do its thing for that package
[04:41] <pipegeek> errg.  WRong bug
[04:41] <pipegeek> sorry
[04:41] <YokoZar> c4pt: you mean if you do/don't have xorg-edgers ppa?
[04:41] <c4pt> YokoZar, if i add xorg-edgers into debian squeeze sources and start installing stuff i can kiss my X11 goodbye eventually
[04:42] <YokoZar> well yeah
[04:42] <c4pt> YokoZar, but i just want two packages from it
[04:42] <c4pt> lol
[04:42] <YokoZar> but how would updating ubuntu's ia32-libs change that?
[04:42] <c4pt> YokoZar, well i was searching around for someone who i could talk to . to give me an idea of what i can do?
[04:42] <pipegeek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oss-compat/+bug/673845
[04:43] <pipegeek> Should I also file a feature request to get kernel oss compat turned back on?
[04:43] <c4pt> YokoZar, ive tried building mesa from sources (i got it working once or twice but i am overlooking a symbolic link somewhere or something isnt getting updated
[04:44] <c4pt> YokoZar, i found this ia32-lib-mesa-exp packag on ubuntu one day for nouveau and its so simple its mindblowing
[04:44] <c4pt> *package
[04:44] <YokoZar> yes it's something that should be in ubuntu's ia32-libs
[04:45] <YokoZar> but not as a backport, so it can be fine in its ppa atm
[04:45] <c4pt> YokoZar, well how can i get it installed on debian?
[04:45] <YokoZar> I really don't know, debian has quite a delta with ia32-libs
[04:46] <YokoZar> and the 11.04 goal is to get rid of ia32-libs for multiarch, so I don't see the reason to futz around with it unless that gets delayed again
[04:46] <c4pt> brb
[04:48] <RAOF> Aww, man.  Proper multiarch.  Woot!
[04:49] <ebroder> pipegeek: have you seen the padsp command?
[04:50] <pipegeek> I do, but I'm not sure how useful that is in the case of things that need /dev/sequencer
[04:50] <pipegeek> It's certainly not useful for things which explicitly *open* /dev/sequencer
[04:50] <ebroder> pipegeek: oh, sorry. i thought /dev/sequencer was one of the things padsp faked
[04:51] <pipegeek> I'm not sure.  I thought padsp just overrode calls to the oss API
[04:51] <pipegeek> I thought it was an LD_PRELOAD hack
[04:51] <ebroder> it is an LD_PRELOAD hack, but it works by intercepting open() calls for /dev/mixer, /dev/sndstat, and /dev/dsp
[04:51] <pipegeek> oh neato
[04:51] <pipegeek> :)
[04:52] <pipegeek> OK, in any event..... is there a reason that was removed?  Is there a reason it shouldn't be turned back on?
[04:52] <pipegeek> It is useful, now missing functionality
[04:53] <ebroder> I can't speak to the decision-making process, but I can only assume it's because OSS has been deprecated for years, so it was finally time to put it out to pasture?
[04:53] <pipegeek> I mean, I'm happy to build my own kernels for now, but .... a) if that was an intentional removal, then oss-compat should be removed from universe and b) I'd love to be able to partake in ubuntu security updates which I can't do if I'm rolling my own
[04:54] <pipegeek> ebroder: Is anything (except maybe a few kB) lost by leaving it in?
[04:54] <pipegeek> I know it's long since deprecated, but there are things that can't be rebuilt
[04:54] <pipegeek> and projects that petered out years ago
[04:55] <pipegeek> I'm a dreadfully unimportant case of this, but I'm sure there are others
[04:55] <pipegeek> I don't think it's been taken out of debian unstable
[04:56] <pipegeek> at the very least it'd be nice to have those modules there, even if they're not loaded by default
[04:57] <ebroder> pipegeek: Honestly, I have no idea why it was actually taken out
[04:57] <pipegeek> If I wanted to press the issue, what's the correct channel to go through?  Should I file a feature request?
[04:57] <pipegeek> ebroder: yeah, and sorry for the textual deluge :)  I'm just disappointed
[04:58] <ebroder> pipegeek: It's probably worth looking through the archives for the kernel-team mailing list to see if there's an explanation (http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/kernel-team)
[04:58] <pipegeek> OK.  Will do, and thanks
[04:58] <RAOF> TheMuso will have insight into the process, if he's around.
[04:59] <pipegeek> Is it alright (if I don't find a relevant thread) if I post to that list, or do I need to be an ubuntu developer or package maintainer?
[04:59] <ebroder> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-May/010647.html points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Specs/KernelMaverickConfigReview points to bug #579300
[05:00] <pipegeek> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kernel-team/2010-May/010647.html
[05:00] <pipegeek> oh
[05:00] <pipegeek> ehehe
[05:00] <pipegeek> you beat mne :)
[05:01] <pipegeek> there's a lot of unhappiness in that bug
[05:02] <TheMuso> As as been said, OSS has been deprecated for ages. If your app still uses OSS and OSS only, then you need to find a new app, or request that the upstream author switches to ALSA or pulse, depending on what the app is, and who it targets.
[05:02] <TheMuso> Unfortunately we ran out of time to get ossproxy in Ubuntu maverick, hopefully it will be in for natty.
[05:04] <pipegeek> TheMuso: Does ossproxy handle /dev/sequencer?
[05:04] <TheMuso> pipegeek: No I don't think it does, as PulseAudio doesn't deal with MIDI at all.
[05:04] <pipegeek> TheMuso: which means anything that is trying to speak MIDI through OSS is now stranded.  ossproxy/padsp aren't complete replacements for oss emulation in the kernel.
[05:05] <pipegeek> in my case, the app is a game whose maintainers stopped working on it ten years ago, and the svn repository went down a few years after that.  I am supremely unimportant, but I don't doubt there are other old binaries floating around
[05:05] <TheMuso> Right, but OSS is deprecated.
[05:05] <TheMuso> Hrm ok.
[05:05] <pipegeek> Why not build the modules?
[05:05] <pipegeek> they don't have to be loaded by default, but having them there is tremendously useful for the few who need them.
[05:06] <pipegeek> and I believe they're still included in debian
[05:06] <TheMuso> Well Ubuntu and Debian's kernels tend to be rather vastly different.
[05:06] <pipegeek> hehe, fair enough
[05:06] <pipegeek> but.... why cut people off from OSS before linus decides it's time?
[05:06] <TheMuso> As for your use case, I think it bares consideration.
[05:07] <TheMuso> i.e re-enable OSS emulation for MIDI only.
[05:07] <pipegeek> that'd be nice :)
[05:08] <pipegeek> but if that's being done anyway, why not include all the modules (perhaps as a separate, installable/buildable package, ala sshfs et al)?
[05:08] <pipegeek> err, perhaps I shouldn't push my luck :)
[05:08] <pipegeek> yes.  That would entirely solve my problem
[05:08] <pipegeek> or a userspace LD_PRELOAD hack to reroute /dev/sequencer to /dev/snd/midi
[05:08] <pipegeek> or something :)
[05:09] <ebroder> pipegeek: Wait, does /dev/snd/midi exist and function as a drop-in replacement for /dev/sequencer?
[05:10] <pipegeek> no
[05:10] <ebroder> oh. ok :)
[05:10] <TheMuso> ebroder: No, didfferent protocols etc, you have to go through alsa-lib to reliably use /dev/snd stuff.
[05:10] <pipegeek> err, I don't know.  I'll try symlinking it and seeing if it works, but I really doubt the ioctls are the same
[05:10] <pipegeek> ebroder: what TheMuso said :)
[05:11] <ebroder> TheMuso, pipegeek: Got it. Sound is still on my list of "things where I vaguely know the terms but have no clue how they actually work" :)
[05:11] <ebroder> (I need to fix that at some point...)
[05:11] <pipegeek> TheMuso: Thank you very much for considering my case.
[05:11] <TheMuso> I'll see what can be done.
[05:12] <pipegeek> I really appreciate it.
[05:50] <rocket16> Hello friends
[05:50] <rocket16> Is it true that Ubuntu 11.04 will only have Unity as its default desktop?
[05:50] <persia> rocket16, That's complex.
[05:51] <persia> It's more true to say that "Ubuntu Desktop 11.04" will feature the Unity interface.
[05:51] <rocket16> persia: Oh, I see. Then will GNOME be available by default as well?
[05:52] <persia> rocket16, Unity is mostly atop GNOME.  I'm not sure what you mean by "available by default".
[05:53] <rocket16> persia: Oh, many thanks. I just meant to say whether GNOME will be installed by default or not. But your answer already answered my question. Thanks. :)
[05:53] <rocket16> Thanks for the help, persia.
[05:54] <persia> My understanding is that Ubuntu Desktop will remain a GNOME-based flavour, just with Unity.
[07:06] <pitti> Good morning
[08:04] <pitti> kirkland: *chuckle* at the byobu (3.8-0ubuntu1) changelog -- s3kr1t stuff?
[08:08] <dholbach> good morning!
[08:13] <stefanlsd> james_w: im looking at merging dahdi-linux using udd. It seems debian uploaded a .pc directory with patches applied (not sure how this happened) - do we have an idea how we handle this .pc directory with udd?
[08:29] <pitti> stefanlsd: perhaps bzr imports the source packages with the patches already applied now? that's the way dpkg-source unpacks 3.0 (quilt) packagese
[08:29] <pitti> james_w: ^ ?
[08:32] <stefanlsd> pitti: i guess if thats the case, we def. need the .pc directory, as to build it needs to unapply
[08:32] <pitti> yes, with pre-applied patches you also need .pc/
[08:33] <stefanlsd> pitti: yeah. there was talk about not importing .pc. in this case we cant do that.
[08:33] <pitti> in that case we shouldn't pre-apply patches
[08:49] <cjwatson> uh
[08:49] <cjwatson> it's a bit more complicated than that, IMO
[08:51] <cjwatson> 3.0 (quilt) must *always* be patches-applied except when you're actively editing patches; but importing .pc creates a lot of noise and it's tricky to figure out how to commit correctly atop that; http://bugs.debian.org/572204 is probably part of this
[08:51] <cjwatson> what I do at the moment is run http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/dpkg-quilt-setup if patches are applied but the .pc directory isn't there
[08:52] <cjwatson> but I think what we want is for bzr to set up the .pc on checkout, or similar
[08:52] <cjwatson> it's as yet an incompletely solved problem
[08:53] <pitti> cjwatson: why wouldn't we have .pc/ tracked in bzr in this case then? I thought the goal would be to mimic what apt-get source does, i. e. have a buildable tree?
[08:53] <cjwatson> I've never seen anyone get the commits right on top of that
[08:53] <pitti> if we want to require using bzr bd (which would be okay, I think), then we might just as well not apply the patches
[08:53] <pitti> I've not seen it either yet
[08:54] <cjwatson> the other longish-term approach is to represent the patches as a loom
[08:54] <cjwatson> if that ever works, then it should be good
[08:54] <pitti> that'd be even better
[08:54] <Laney> I thought that was agreed by the bzr guys at UDS, so hopefully there will be some movement there
[08:54] <pitti> right now it seems kind of silly that we don't use revision control for the things that would benefit most from it :)
[08:54] <cjwatson> I'd really rather not have unapplied patches though, that's just back to the bad old days
[08:55] <cjwatson> there are strong benefits to having things like bzr blame for 3.0 (quilt)
[08:55] <cjwatson> if the revision control representation is patches-applied, then you have blame across both upstream and distribution-patches transparently
[09:01] <cjwatson> FWIW, I do 3.0 (quilt) in bzr outside udd, without committing .pc, and it works quite nicely for my purposes except that you have to do something like that dpkg-quilt-setup business on checkout
[09:01] <cjwatson> but IMO this is a small price to pay, and if bzr sorted it out automatically it would be nice and smooth
[09:01] <cjwatson> (I talked to the bzr developers about this at the last platform rally)
[09:03] <maxb> cjwatson: Ooh, nice script. And yes, the current situation (of .pc in branch) is just broken
[09:36] <geser> cjwatson (or someone from ubuntu-desktop): could you please also do a no-change rebuild of pyorbit as the recent rebuild of gnome-python (for py2.7) added a dependency on python2.7-pyorbit (to python-gnome2) which isn't in the archive yet. Thanks
[09:40] <mvo> geser, cjwatson: I can do that
[10:54] <ifdef> cjwatson: morning! do you mind if I install a pkg in the natty chroot on kakadu (ctags)?
[10:54] <cjwatson> ifdef: not at all, in general you're free to on porter boxes
[10:54] <ifdef> cjwatson: thx
[10:58] <juk> hi, i accidentally pointed anjuta ide to my home folder, as project root, and it won't start now for hours!
[10:59] <juk> anyway to stop anjuta ide from going through my home dir at startup? it 80Gb+ big
[11:24] <JamesPage> hi, how do I get a package that FTBFS rebuilt for Natty?  The missing main dependency has now been MIR'ed
[11:25] <tumbleweed> JamesPage: you ask a core-dev to rebuild / "give-back" it, you need to mention the package name...
[11:28] <JamesPage> tumbleweed: OK so if I follow the normal sponsorship route with the bug that should do the trick?
[11:28] <tumbleweed> JamesPage: no, all you need to do is ask here
[11:28] <JamesPage> tumbleweek: ah - right understand now;
[11:28] <pitti> JamesPage: which package is it?
[11:28] <JamesPage> tumbleweed: libmx4j-java
[11:29] <JamesPage> pitti: ^^
[11:29] <pitti> JamesPage: done
[11:29] <JamesPage> pitti: thanks!
[11:38] <ifdef> cjwatson: something nasty going on with dpkg - getting corrupt stack frames
[11:59] <lool> Hmm new linux-libc-dev causes some FTBFSes like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wpasupplicant/+bug/672580 and eglibc
[12:09] <geser> lool: perhaps a similar change like in the recent busybox upload helps here too
[12:17] <lool> ah thanks for the pointer; this is going to be painful  :-/
[12:28] <cjwatson> ifdef: I think valgrind is at least somewhat usable on armel nowadays, so might be worth a go
[12:28] <cjwatson> lool: I thought cyphermox was already dealing with that
[12:29] <ifdef> cjwatson: I was going to install that, but it seems to be trying to pull in a new libc...?
[12:29] <cjwatson> ifdef: otherwise, maybe traditional malloc-arena-debugging techniques might help
[12:29] <cjwatson> ifdef: if it's just an upgraded version, that should be ok
[12:29] <cjwatson> ifdef: the 'sudo apt-get install' is pretty locked down, it shouldn't let you do anything excessively dangerous
[12:30] <cjwatson> lool: https://code.launchpad.net/~mathieu-tl/ubuntu/natty/wpasupplicant/ftbfs-lp672580
[12:46] <lool> cjwatson, ifdef: for Linaro, we prepared an updated valgrind which was too intrusive to upload to maverick late in the cycle; it's in https://launchpad.net/~linaro-maintainers/+archive/overlay/+packages
[12:47] <lool> I expect we will update to 3.6.0 in natty though
[12:47] <lool> I mean in natty itself, no need for a PPA anymore
[12:48] <lool> cjwatson: Yeah wpasupplicant has been taken care of, I'm facing the eglibc FTBFS
[12:48] <lool> and I don't want to change eglibc code to use linux headers instead of glibc headers, this would be insane
[12:53] <cjwatson> lool: I filed bug 673073 about the painful bit of the incompatibility
[12:53] <ogra_ac> cjwatson, btw, do we have a bug for the dpkg/debootstrap issue ?
[12:53] <ogra_ac> else i'll open one
[12:55] <cjwatson> ogra_ac: not to my knowledge
[12:55] <lool> cjwatson: Thanks for the pointer; sub-ed
[12:55] <ogra_ac> cjwatson, k
[12:55] <lool> I checked the upstream glibc list and git repos and didn't see anything relevant going in
[13:00] <cjwatson> likewise
[13:10] <lool> Nothing in Fedora's packaging either
[14:39] <stgraber> doko: ping
[14:40] <highvoltage> doko: ping
[14:40] <stgraber> doko: Does http://launchpadlibrarian.net/58992414/icedtea-web_1.0~20101021-0ubuntu4_1.0~20101021-0ubuntu5.diff.gz look like an acceptable fix for bug 673524 ?
[14:42] <stgraber> doko: apparently quite a few packages depends on/recommends icedtea6-plugin still making some DVD builds to fail
[14:50] <frukt_> hi! i'm not a ubuntu user, but i use the ubuntu-patched cairo, fontconfig, libxft and freetype2 on my arch install. it seems that as of late, the lcdfilter settings in fontconfig have no effect? i.e. lcdlegacy, lcdlight and lcddefault all look the same. can anyone shed a light on that?
[15:02] <jdstrand> wendar: hey. so I have on my todo list to add to the wiki the security team's thoughts/recommendations on ARB. where is the best place to put that?
[15:19] <kirkland> where did pitti go?
[15:23] <Ng> .1
[15:23] <Ng> bah
[15:26] <gamerpro2000> Guys, I realize this is a dev channel, but I have a serious problem with Ubuntu that is dev related.
[15:26] <gamerpro2000> Anybody in here got a minute to assist?
[15:27] <pitti_> gamerpro2000: you should just ask your question, otherwise nobody will know what it is about
[15:27] <gamerpro2000> ....................................................seriously?
[15:27] <gamerpro2000> Yay! life!
[15:28] <pitti_> (and some patience, please..)
[15:28] <gamerpro2000> pitti_, sorry.  I've been trying to develop a script and stuff to get this working for 9 weeks.  patience is wearing thin
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti_: howdy;  sorry, I don't get what you mean?
[15:29] <pitti_> kirkland: now, if only I'd remember what I asked :) /me reads logs
[15:29] <gamerpro2000> Anyway, XOrg is giving me a segmentation fault with a signal of 13
[15:29] <gamerpro2000> However, it only happens once and a while
[15:29] <pitti_> kirkland: aah
[15:29] <kirkland> pitti_: the 3.7 release moved ~/.byobu to the xdg recommended location of ~/.local/share/byobu
[15:29] <pitti_> kirkland: well, the changelog just said "UNRELEASED"
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti_: huh?  really?
[15:30] <gamerpro2000> and only about 25% of the time.  I'm trying to patch Xorg to stop it from doing this.  It seems that there is a buffer or something that's getting stuf
[15:30]  * kirkland checks
[15:30] <pitti_> kirkland: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/byobu/3.8-0ubuntu1
[15:30] <gamerpro2000> *stuck
[15:30] <pitti_> gamerpro2000: signal 13 is SIGPIPE, not a buffer overflow
[15:30] <kirkland> pitti_: whoops, i wonder how that happened
[15:30] <gamerpro2000> Because it happens several times over and over again, then once it comes out of it, it won't do it for several reboots
[15:31] <gamerpro2000> pitti_, just so that you're aware, this is a multiseatX environment
[15:31] <kirkland> pitti_: okay, thanks for the heads up
[15:31] <pitti_> kirkland: so I just joked about "you now accidentally released your s3kr1t stuff" :)
[15:31] <kirkland> pitti_: hah :-D
[15:32] <kirkland> pitti_: my release script broke somehow
[15:32] <gamerpro2000> Much of this started happening when gdm and kdm updated, removing support for multiseat
[15:33] <gamerpro2000> Does anybody know when the multiseat additions will be added back into the tree so that it will make it easy again for people to use multiseat
[15:34] <gamerpro2000> or does anybody know a good implementation for a multiseat environment?
[15:35] <gamerpro2000> for Ubuntu 10.04 LTS
[15:46] <psusi> pitti_: I came up with a working patch last night to export the esata bit and it correctly identified the external port on my laptop... now for udisks to use that, it still needs to be picked up by udev and added to the information it keeps for the block device right?
[15:46] <krisphillips> Hey guys, I realize you guys don't do support, but sine you guys are devs, I was wondering if you can tell me what this segmentation fault means from my logs?  I would really appreciate it, since I've been beating my head against it for weeks.
[15:46] <krisphillips> Log is here: http://pastebin.com/qg1TtiXz
[15:47] <krisphillips> I don't have any understanding on what the heck it means, and I would be in your debt if you could explain it and give me a direction to resolve it.
[15:47] <pitti_> psusi: right; but once that's in the kernel, that should be easy
[15:47] <pitti_> psusi: well, in udisks, not in udev
[15:48] <krisphillips> Anyone?  Please? :(
[15:49] <pitti_> kirkland: that's not a very useful stack trace, I'm afraid; did you get an apport report?
[15:49] <kirkland> pitti_: i did not
[15:49] <kirkland> :-)
[16:17] <pitti> ebroder: thanks for forwarding the gst perl fix upstream!
[16:18] <pitti> ebroder: you are going to do that for gutenprint as well, I suppose? I'll sponsor that now
[16:18] <ebroder> pitti: please don't just yet
[16:18] <pitti> oh, ok
[16:18] <ebroder> I'd like to do at least a modicum of testing :)
[16:20] <ebroder> pitti: if you're hunting for something to upload :), you can drop the perl dep from libnss-mdns with no other changes
[16:21] <ebroder> (dep as in it's in debian/control directly for no good reason)
[16:23] <pitti> ebroder: right, that's on my mental queue
[16:24] <pitti> ebroder: just thought you'd like to see your change in action :)
[16:39] <krisphillips> So, anybody willing to help me now?
[16:40] <krisphillips> I submitted a bug report here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/674112
[16:40] <krisphillips> I would reaaaalllllly appreciate it :)
[16:54] <segv`> There anyway to install 10.04 with the 10.10 CD? 2.6.32 likes to make my 'hdd's dissapear. 2.6.35 does not however.
[16:55] <cjwatson> not really
[16:56] <cjwatson> I suppose you could debootstrap and then fix it up afterwards, but that's definitely a "some assembly required" kind of option
[16:56] <segv`> Figured as much, i'm willing to dive in and build a livecd with a newer kernel on it, would that work?
[16:57] <cjwatson> I suppose.  You can't just install 10.10 directly?
[16:57] <cjwatson> (since you said its kernel works)
[16:58] <segv`> I have it installed, I just want LTS (for various other reasons, compatibility etc.) and I have cfengine managing these machines
[16:58] <segv`> Like to keep them all the same version
[16:58] <segv`> So i don't have a one off other than kernel version.
[16:59] <psusi> should probably try to figure out what's wrong with 2.6.32 and fix it...
[17:00] <segv`> DID_BAD_TARGET is what happens, ICH7, USB drops out too during "hardware detection"
[17:01] <segv`> with acpi enabled, noacpi, usb doesn't drop.
[17:01] <segv`> 2.6.35 does not require any of these steps etc.
[17:01] <segv`> and it's alread in lucid-proposed so *shrug*
[17:07] <segv`> psusi: I really should, I just need this system up, it's a virtual server host it being down for > 24 hours is bad.
[17:07] <segv`> If I had time to debug, I would *love* to.
[17:08] <segv`> If I can find another D945GTP intel mboard with a 64bit proc for under 140 in the next week or two, i'll go down the gauntlet of debugging it
[17:25] <segv`> cjwatson: you think it's possible to use the kernel off of the 10.10 livecd and use it on the 10.04 livecd?
[17:25] <pitti> segv`: we already have a maverick kernel backport in lucid
[17:26] <segv`> pitti: (i can't install it w/out the livecd using it)
[17:27] <segv`> pitti: 2.6.32 (the version on the livecd) as soon as hardware detection goes through the hdd's become inaccessible
[17:27] <pitti> yeah, you'd need to remaster then
[17:28] <pitti> or perhaps try a netinstall; the expert mode should allow you to select a kernel, but I'm not quite sure whether this requires extra magic in d-i
[17:28] <segv`> pitti: that's what I was thinking, i was going to just add the lucid-proposed, where the linux-image-2.6.35 is hiding
[17:28] <segv`> to the live-cd giving me the ability to use it.
[17:33] <segv`> hmm, wish I knew how to make custom kernels work for the live-cd..
[17:33] <segv`> pitti: Would copying over the kernel from the 10.10 cd work and just rebuild it?
[17:34] <pitti> segv`: I thought the 10.04 CD wouldn't even see your hard disk -- so no
[17:34] <segv`> it sees it it just dumps it
[17:35] <segv`> as soon as it gets to hardware detection is throw DID_BAD_TARGET errors (Read errors)
[17:48] <segv`> Got it, figured out a pretty hack.
[17:48] <segv`> pitti: I booted with the 10.10 livecd just cloning a 10.04.1 install with the 2.6.35 kernel installed, just need to chroot grub install and done. Problem solved.
[17:49] <pitti> heh
[17:49] <segv`> Sometimes I make things way too difficult/
[17:59] <ifdef> ogra: hi! could you raise a bug for the armel dbootstrap/dpkg sigsegv issue?
[18:00] <ogra_ac> ifdef, yeah, will do
[18:00] <ogra_ac> did you take a look already ?
[18:01] <ogra_ac> ifdef, do youu want it against dpkg or debootstrap ?
[18:02] <ifdef> ogra_ac: I've been looking at it all day. So far, I've hit a bugs in valgrind and dmalloc and a limitation with gdb :)
[18:02] <ogra_ac> yeah, valgrind and arm dont go so well together
[18:02] <ifdef> the problem seems to be with dpkg-query so I guess dpkg
[18:03] <ifdef> I got the classic, "valgrind: the 'impossible' happened:"
[18:03] <ogra_ac> heh
[18:09] <ogra_ac> ifdef, bug 674146
[18:47] <doko> stgraber: yes, looks ok
[18:51] <highvoltage> doko: unping (I emailed you instead!)
[20:04] <superm1> pitti, what exactly is this PNG optimization that started happening in builds for natty?  i'm assuming another size reduction initiative?
[20:07] <ifdef> ogra: a belated thx for 674146
[20:07] <ebroder> superm1: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/performance-desktop-n-install-footprint (in short, yes, it's a size optimization thing)
[20:09] <superm1> ebroder, thanks, that explains it.  i guess i'll just need to double check the pngs that are being optimized to make sure they still look right afterward then
[20:09] <ebroder> superm1: pitti wrote a script to do that verification - it's somewhere in pkgbinarymangler
[20:10] <superm1> pitti wrote a script to verify how they /look/ ? i knew he was smart, but didn't think he could make computers replace humans for that kind of stuff :)
[20:11] <ebroder> It converts them to bitmaps and compares them somehow :)
[20:11] <ebroder> I think it's pixel-for-pixel, but I don't remember for sure
[20:12] <gamerpro2000> Can someone look at my bug report and at least give me a bit of direction?  Thank you.  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/674112
[20:17] <ikonia> gamerpro2000: this isn't a support channel, please don't ask for support in here
[20:50] <psusi> pitti: if I patch udev's ata_id utility to add a new variable to the udev db entry for esata, that will be sufficient for udisks to auto mount them right?  do you have a preference for what it should be called?
[20:52] <psusi> hrm... no, ata_id isn't the right place... hrm...
[20:57] <psusi> hrm... how can you have the shell test a bit in a hex number?  hrm...
[20:58] <ebroder> psusi: if you're using bash, you can use && and || within $(( ))
[20:58] <ebroder> if not...call out to something more powerful?
[20:59] <ebroder> psusi: err, sorry, '&' and '|'
[21:00] <psusi> hrm... is bash what udev uses? or does it use the default shell, which these days is dash?
[21:00] <ebroder> psusi: probably dash
[21:07] <psusi> aha!  bash -c 'test $((1 & 0x$(<foo))) -eq 1' should do it
[21:55] <Book_em_Dano> can I aks questions regarding packaging here?
[21:56] <micahg> Book_em_Dano: #ubuntu-packaging is probably better for generic questions
[22:18] <kees> lool: still around?
[22:18] <lool> yup
[22:18] <kees> lool: I sent two emails, and then realized I could probably talk with you live. :)
[22:19] <lool> EH!
[22:19] <kees> if you have a moment, can you read those, and then we can compare notes again? I think eglibc is close, but some minor re-arrangements would be nice.
[22:21] <lool> kees: I'm bzr pushing as maybe my branch is out of date
[22:21] <lool> xmlrpclib.Fault: <Fault -1: 'Unexpected Zope exception: AssertionError: '>
[22:21] <lool> but Pushed up to revision 87.
[22:22] <lool> kees: I think I had failed to push r87 with cvs-issue12113
[22:23] <kees> ah! okay
[22:23] <kees> let me know when it's there and I'll look again
[22:23] <lool> kees: it is now
[22:23] <lool> I also have it in my tree and in the series
[22:23]  * kees waits for LP
[22:24] <lool> kees: You're looking at lp:ubuntu/eglibc, right?
[22:25] <kees> I was looking at https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/natty/eglibc/natty because I'm still waiting for bzr checkout to finish :)
[22:26] <kees> lool: okay, cool, let me re-arrange some other patches, and I'll commit too
[22:26] <lool> kees: Now keep in mind that some of these patches landed via Ubuntu
[22:27] <kees> I'll just move the one ld_audit one, since that'll stay ubuntu-specific
[22:27] <lool> kees: Ah you say debian/patches/any/disable-ld_audit.diff in changelog but it's ubuntu/disable-ld_audit.diff everywhere else
[22:28] <lool> I got it via the maverick-security which uses debian/patches/any/disable-ld_audit.diff
[22:29] <kees> right, I moved it for the old -pkg tree
[22:29] <kees> and updated it's comment to include the CVE
[22:29] <bdrung> bryceh: wow, you are cleaning up all old audacious bugs
[22:29] <lool> kees: Ok; this indeed wasn't copied over
[22:30] <lool> We have a debian/patches/any/dst-expansion-fix.diff instead of patches/any/cvs-dst-expansion-fix.diff
[22:30] <lool> (cvs- missing)
[22:31] <lool> Albeit it's the Debian name, so you could keep it like that
[22:32] <lool> And patches/any/ignore-ORIGIN-in-priv-progs.diff was not added but we got any/submitted-origin.diff from Debian which is disabled
[22:33] <lool> kees: So just a rename from /any to ubuntu of disable-ld_audit.diff + updated desc to copy; you're doing it, or you want me to?
[22:33] <kees> lool: I've got it, one sec
[22:34] <kees> okay, I've committed now.
[22:35] <lool> kees: I've added a comment in the old branch's changelog to point at the new one
[22:36] <lool> the good news is that bzr merge lp:debian/eglibc just works now  :-)
[22:36] <kees> \o/
[22:37] <lool> kees: Hmm you chose to move debian/patches/any/cvs-dst-expansion-fix.diff around? we don't use it and it will show up in a straight diff with Debian; I guess people should use bzr
[22:38] <lool> kees: Looks good; thanks for moving this across, and sorry for missing parts of it
[22:45] <kees> lool: no problem, sorry it was so confused. :)
[22:45] <kees> we do use debian/patches/any/cvs-dst-expansion-fix.diff ... ?
[22:46] <kees> I just chose to stick to their naming convention since eventually that patch will go away when we get it automatically from upstream.
[22:49] <lool> Sorry, #any/submitted-origin.diff is the one which is disabled because redundant with our fix
[23:14] <bryceh> bdrung, yeah was gonna put in 30 min on fixing a bug, but saw that just tons of cruft had built up so ended up just cleaning out obsolete bugs.


[03:03] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2581 Dependency wait (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts). Successfully built (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts)
[03:14] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- boiko tiagosh renato bfiller, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2629 Destination version missing from changelog (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts). Ready to build (xenial/online-accounts-api). Release pocket (zesty/online-accounts-api). Successfully built (xenial/address-book-app, xenial/address-book-service, xenial/dialer-app, xenial/empathy, xenial/history-service, xenial/indicator-transfer-buteo, xenial/libircclient, xenial/mes
[05:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- gary-wzl77, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2278 QA Signoff:
[06:00] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- gary-wzl77, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2278 Successfully built
[16:42] <axk4545> is this a the appropriate place to ask about the way that ubuntu builds isos? I am trying to setup CI to build an iso on my own server and I am not sure which CI I should use.


[04:34] <game2> hi, will there be a 12.04.1 release for Ubuntu Studio?
[05:37] <micahg> someone might want to merge jackd2 to fix bug 1029685
[05:37] <micahg> (ask infinity first as he touched it last)
[05:46] <ailo> micahg: merge? Who's infinity?
[05:47] <micahg> ailo: merge from Debian, infinity is an Ubuntu Developer that can be found in #ubuntu-devel
[06:21] <ailo> micahg: merged
[06:21] <micahg> great
[14:12] <len-dt> scott-work, just sent mail to the list when you have time.
[14:13] <scott-work> len-dt: i will look at it this morning, some funny stuff going on at work so i'm not sure exactly when
[14:14] <len-dt> I won't be doing anything with it today as I want comments first.
[14:32] <scott-work> len-dt: re: adobe.icc, i don't think that is for adobe pdf viewer (but i could be wrong), it may be for photoshop under wine
[14:33] <scott-work> don't mark those items for ttoine as done yet, please
[14:33] <scott-work> i would like to look at these issues this weekend
[14:33] <len-dt> When I went to the site It seemed to be a collection of ICC profiles.
[14:33] <scott-work> i had already looked at something similar
[14:34] <scott-work> i worry, however, that the way vanilla ubuntu seems to have done some of their setting managers is that it isn't a collection of discreet apps
[14:59] <len-dt> scott-work, what vanilla uses for monitor setup seems to be what we have already. It just doesn't show up in the menu... ours or the vanilla one.
[14:59] <len-dt> It shows up when the colorimeter is plugged in.
[15:01] <len-dt> If it doesn't the tool suggested dispcalGUI. But this is not in our repos.
[15:06] <len-dt> So what we have is tied to the USB modules we ship. When a colorimeter is detected, argyl and gnome-color-manager start and the gnome-color-manager GUI shows up on the screen. The gui leads the user through the steps to create and save an ICC profile unique to the user's monitor.
[15:07] <len-dt> As with soundcards not all colorimeter hardware is directly supported :P
[15:11] <len-dt> If the user has unsupported HW, at present the solution is to find dispcalGUI, which our repos don't have :P
[15:15] <scott-work> this is a very cool link: https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork
[15:15] <scott-work> worked for me, i'm presuming it will work for anybody with a launchpad account
[15:16] <scott-work> that's good information you wrote, len-dt
[15:19] <len-dt> We do ship dispcal which is the non gui version.
[15:23] <len-dt> Yes that link works for me too. A number of the in progress items are just waiting for the package to be released. The work is done otherwise.
[15:24] <len-dt> I had a solution for xchat with having our irc channel included. micahg thought that using another file in /etc/skel would be a maintenance problem.
[15:26] <len-dt> Unfortunately, the server list is in the source. The ubuntu package patches the source to add #ubuntu.
[15:27] <len-dt> micahg, suggests that we ask the ubuntu maintainer to add a hook to the code that allows all ubuntu flavours to add their own channel.
[15:29] <len-dt> firefox has had this done already, we only need to add a file to /etc/firefox or /etc/firefox/pref to do that.
[15:31] <len-dt> though this is not where ubuntu vanilla does it...
[15:44] <scott-work> we will need to test the 12.04.1 images by the end of next week
[15:45] <scott-work> len-dt: we could file a bug against xchat then for the hook
[15:48] <len-dt> scott-work, there is a menu fix that would go well with 12.04.1. It needs review or something.
[15:49] <len-dt>  The package is ubuntustudio-default-settings.precise. I have built the package on my machine and installed it on a fresh 12.04 install (after all the updates when through.)
[15:49] <len-dt> It works fine.
[15:50] <len-dt> It just needs to be approved for SRU.
[15:53] <len-dt> It fixes three bugs: help points at something, menu file points at directory files that exist in xfce, and two mixer entries are removed from mediaplayback.
[15:54] <len-dt> All three bugs have been fixed in 12.10
[15:55] <scott-work> len-dt: it might be too close to releasing, but is this even an SRU item?
[15:55] <scott-work> isn't this really just a bug?
[15:56]  * scott-work admits he forgets some of the classifications
[15:56] <scott-work> i would posit that if this actually is an SRU it would probably be too late, however if we are just fixing a bug it might not be
[15:57] <len-dt> I too am having trouble figuring my way through this. scott-work I don't know the difference.
[15:57] <len-dt> I find it confusing. The fix has been ready for a week anyway.
[16:00] <len-dt> scott-work, at this point I have given up on it and am working on new stuff for 12.10
[16:03] <len-dt> ailo, where are you putting your script from the tweaks GUI? (for things that need to be changed when jackd is run)
[16:18] <len-dt> scott-work, with regards to display calibration there is also lprof. It seems to be the only other app that allows the use of a colorimeter.
[16:21] <len-dt> Anything else just goes by eyeball. My feeling is that as we expect studio to be usable by professional users the eyeball is not good enough.
[16:22] <len-dt> That being said, there may also be some users who want something better than nothing but are not will to spend the money on a colorimeter and would like an eyeball app.
[17:15] <len-dt> falktx, I have read a lot of comments about the non-session-manager as opposed to the jack session manager. Do you have any comments?
[17:16] <len-dt> I ask because the non-applications are in you repo but not in ubuntu's (yet?)
[17:17] <len-dt> s/you/your
[17:26] <falktx> len-dt: it's a new way to do things, but still needs polishing
[17:28] <len-dt> So it is alpha then falktx ?
[17:29] <falktx> no, it's 1.1.0, but has a few bugs
[17:30] <falktx> the developer recommends using the latest git, but I'm not happy with that
[17:30] <len-dt> So it is not ready for debian/ubuntu repos yet. But looks to be well accepted when it is.
[17:31] <len-dt> (studio has to work from ubuntu repos)
[17:32] <len-dt> It sounds like I shold not be looking at getting it there at this time though
[17:32] <len-dt> Thankyou
[19:39] <falktx> len-dt: don't get too excited about nsm
[19:39] <falktx> the people who say good things about it are blind fans
[19:39] <falktx> I've seen 1 or 2 around...
[19:39] <falktx> kinda reminds me of apple fans... ;)


[07:33] <Kilos> morning all
[07:46] <Golynx> Morning
[07:47] <Kilos> hi Golynx write this down and keep inna safe place
[07:47] <Golynx> Hi Kilos, ok
[07:47] <Kilos> sooner or later you gonna enter password when booting and it will keep going back to that popup
[07:48] <Kilos> log in as guest
[07:48] <Kilos> press ctrl+alt+F3
[07:48] <Kilos> type in your username and password
[07:48] <Golynx> Hmm, will that still happen in future , or do i have to do something first
[07:49] <Kilos> wait
[07:49] <Kilos> it happened to me now
[07:49] <Golynx> ok
[07:49] <Kilos> before you ctrl+alt+F33
[07:49] <Kilos> 3 not 33
[07:49] <Kilos> connect to the internet
[07:49] <Kilos> as the guest
[07:50] <Kilos> then ctrl+alt+F3
[07:50] <Kilos> then login with your username and password
[07:50] <Kilos> so now you will be in cli mode but will be online
[07:50] <Kilos> type in
[07:51] <Kilos> sudo aptitude install gdm
[07:51] <Kilos> the lightdm gui manager seems buggy if you fiddle lots
[07:51] <Kilos> you will get the choice to use lightdm or gdm
[07:52] <Kilos> choose gdm
[07:52] <Kilos> once done then do sudo reboot
[07:53] <Kilos> and you will see an extra place, you hit enter then password and hey presto
[07:53] <Golynx> Fixed ?
[07:53] <Kilos> yes
[07:53] <Golynx> ok
[07:54] <Kilos> gnome desktop manager works kiff
[07:54] <Kilos> i see what you mean about the funny stuff
[07:55] <Kilos> i only have 4 desktops
[07:55] <Kilos> grrr
[07:55] <Kilos> does that ubuntu-tweak give options to add workspaces
[07:55] <Golynx> Well i found a way to disable the annoying ubity scrollbar, now i got a nice solid scrollber, with no stupid effects
[07:55] <Kilos> like myunity
[07:56] <Golynx> Yes you can in ubuntu tweak
[07:56] <Kilos> yay then you can help me later
[07:56] <Golynx> more than 4
[07:56] <Kilos> how big is tweak
[07:56] <Kilos> ive blown most of me data
[07:56] <Kilos> i use 10
[07:56] <Golynx> 1MB
[07:57] <Kilos> thats cool
[07:57] <Kilos> link?
[08:00] <Golynx> I cant get the link from the site but just click Download now! http://ubuntu-tweak.com/
[08:00] <Kilos> np
[08:00] <Kilos> ok ty
[08:01] <Golynx> np
[08:02] <Golynx> gconf-editor and dconf-editor is a nice tool to configure unity 2D , more stuff there
[08:05] <Kilos> i use 3d
[08:05] <Kilos> or full unity
[08:05] <Golynx> In System settings there should be  green ubuntu-tweak icon , you can choose unity and it will give you options there
[08:05] <Golynx> oh ok
[08:08] <Kilos> whew so much stuff
[08:09] <Golynx> I think there's 36 workspaces there
[08:09] <Kilos> whats launcher opacity?
[08:09] <Kilos> under what button
[08:10] <Golynx> When you move a window under the launcher the see through effect
[08:10] <Kilos> Maaz, define opacity
[08:10] <Maaz> Kilos: Opacity \O*pac"i*ty\, n. [L. opacitas: cf. F. opacit['e].] 1. The state of being opaque; the quality of a body which renders it impervious to the rays of light; want of transparency; opaqueness. [1913 Webster]  2. Obscurity; want of clearness. --Bp. Hall. [1913 Webster], opacity n 1: the phenomenon of not permitting the passage of electromagnetic radiation
[08:10] <Maaz> [ant: {transparence}, {transparency}] 2: incomprehensibility resulting from obscurity of m…
[08:10] <Golynx> By me it says Number of workspaces:
[08:12] <Kilos> where
[08:13] <Golynx> Tweaks >> Unity >> Number of workspaces : option
[08:13] <Kilos> i dont see unity
[08:14] <Golynx> Hmm, i dunno about the 3D unity it shows in 2D
[08:14] <Kilos> or number of workspaces
[08:14] <Kilos> sigh
[08:14] <Golynx> It should show all and more options there
[08:15] <Golynx> since its full unity
[08:15] <Kilos> hud and shortlinks
[08:15] <Kilos> and opacity stuff
[08:15] <Golynx> Does'nt compiz manager have that setting
[08:16] <Kilos> ?
[08:16] <Kilos> maybe i have got compiz even
[08:16] <Kilos> havent
[08:17] <Golynx> Compiz is the graphics stuff manager for unity 3D
[08:17] <Golynx> Should be in synaptics already installed
[08:17] <Kilos> ty ill look later need to rest now
[08:18] <Golynx> ok take care
[08:18] <Kilos> will do
[09:12] <Kilos> morning superfly Private_User
[09:12] <Private_User> morning Kilos
[09:33] <Kilos> hi psydroid
[11:12]  * Golynx hates this domain! deploy.akamaitechnologies.com
[11:40] <Kilos> hi liamT
[11:46] <liamT> gday
[12:37] <superfly> hi Kilos
[12:40] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[12:43] <Kilos> unity is coming right again. the right click on a drive or stick and format option is back
[12:48] <charl> good afternoon all
[12:48] <charl> hi Kilos
[12:48] <charl> hi superfly
[12:49] <charl> Maaz: coffee on
[12:49]  * Maaz puts the kettle on
[12:49] <Golynx> Hi
[12:50] <charl> hi Golynx
[12:50] <charl> just got bitlbee set up with libpurple and pidgin-sipe
[12:50] <charl> working perfectly, very impressed
[12:51] <Kilos> hi charl
[12:52] <Kilos> i like pidgin. everything works kiff there
[12:53] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for charl!
[12:57] <Golynx> If they can make a whatsapp hack for pidgin , it will be perfect
[13:05] <superfly> ohi guys
[13:05] <Kilos> yeah
[13:06] <Kilos> whatsapp on ubuntu is very hard work and lotsa data
[13:06] <Kilos> gotta do the android emulater thing
[13:07] <Golynx> hi superfly
[13:07] <Golynx> Sad , i cant do android emulator anymore on ubuntu
[13:07] <Golynx> I really need it for my phonegap apps
[13:08] <superfly> just install Android Studio?
[13:10] <Golynx> It used to run smooth on win7 at less than 20% cpu , but ubuntu's OpenJDK keeps using 100% cpu
[13:10] <superfly> which version of Ubuntu?
[13:10] <Golynx> 12.04
[13:11] <superfly> ah, yes. that's ancient
[13:11] <superfly> if you used something more up-to-date, then you'd have less issues
[13:13] <Golynx> I guess so. I will have to find an win7 disk again. Dont have the pc quality for 12.10,13.04,13.10,14.04
[13:15] <charl> whatsapp is linked to your sim card
[13:15] <charl> it uses your mobile phone number as your username
[13:15] <charl> apparently there are some ways to "hack" it
[13:15] <charl> which inevitably also exposes a serious security flaw in whatsapp
[13:15] <charl> but i have never attempted it myself
[13:16] <charl> but there is no "normal" way to run whatsapp unless you have a mobile phone or perhaps tablet
[13:16] <charl> whatsapp is basically just flawed by design
[13:17] <charl> and even though it is based off the open standard xmpp protocol it has no federation
[13:18] <charl> at work we have lync which does have xmpp federation
[13:18] <charl> but lync only allows it with a very limited number of services
[13:18] <charl> so you can't for example chat to users on any of the jabber servers
[13:18] <charl> but you can chat to and call users of other microsoft services like skype
[13:19] <charl> lync only uses xmpp for s2s though, for c2s you use a protocol based off SIP/SIMPLE
[13:20] <charl> that's why you need the open source sipe library if you want to connect to lync using pidgin or bitlbee
[13:20] <charl> or any other client that is based off libpurple
[13:22] <Golynx> that sounds interesting charls, but i will wait for a pidgin whatsapp plugin
[13:24] <Kilos> http://davidgf.net/page/39/whatsapp-on-your-computer:-pidgin-plugin
[13:25] <Kilos> i will try that next month i think
[13:25] <Kilos> no data to play with
[13:28] <charl> Golynx: if you read what i said above you will know that you will never get one :)
[13:28] <charl> unless it is a hack that exposes a serious security flaw with whatsapp
[13:28] <Kilos> charl look at that link
[13:29] <charl> looking now
[13:29] <Kilos> i dont mind whatsapp having flaws as long as i can use it
[13:29] <Kilos> i dunno what or where to download it
[13:30] <Kilos> oh its there further down
[13:30] <charl> ah here it explains it on the github page
[13:30] <charl> https://github.com/davidgfnet/whatsapp-purple
[13:30] <charl> look under How do I get my user name and password?
[13:31] <Kilos> i wanna try add the ppa
[13:31] <charl> https://github.com/shirioko/MissVenom
[13:32] <charl> Usage: To sniff password:
[13:32] <Kilos> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:whatsapp-purple/ppa
[13:32] <Kilos> is that how you do it
[13:32] <Golynx> I actually used whatsapp on pc with win7 via a symbian emulator. These thing dont work for me in ubuntu
[13:32] <charl> this is also good: http://blog.philippheckel.com/2013/07/05/how-to-sniff-the-whatsapp-password-from-your-android-phone-or-iphone/
[13:33] <charl> so the short version is, just to get it working, you have to execute a man in the middle attack on your mobile phone
[13:34] <charl> this is what i said above, why libpurple will never "officially" support it
[13:34] <charl> but fortunately there are enough people out there that will create patches
[13:38] <charl> however, this is not where to story ends
[13:38] <charl> if you can "fake" a sim, you can register any number you like
[13:38] <charl> even if the number does not belong to you
[13:39] <Kilos> what about the number of the sim in the 3g modem ChanServ ?
[13:39] <Kilos> its yours
[13:39] <charl> well that number is yours indeed so there is nothing wrong with using it
[13:39] <charl> nothing unethical
[13:40] <Kilos> i have the pidgin plugin going but lost from there now
[13:41] <charl> i will try to help you best i can but i am busy making lunch here so response might be slow
[13:41] <Kilos> np ty
[13:42] <Kilos> everyone seems to be on whatsapp nowadays
[13:42] <charl> got a pot of hot water with tortelloni verdi on my induction cooking plate
[13:42] <Kilos> just need a username and password
[13:42] <Kilos> lol
[13:43] <charl> it's a german "steba" plate - it works absolutely wonderful
[13:43] <Kilos> surely you need to have a registered whatsapp username and password done via fone first
[13:43] <charl> that's exactly the problem Kilos
[13:43] <Kilos> ai!
[13:43] <charl> to "properly" do that you will need to run the whatsapp application on an actual mobile phone or tablet
[13:44] <charl> and then you need to connect that to wifi while you register the account
[13:44] <Kilos> no modern cells here
[13:44] <charl> while registering you need to perform an effective man in the middle attack on that phone or tablet
[13:44] <Kilos> will have to ask ian what he can do for me
[13:44] <charl> meaning you need to sniff the packets and sniff the whatsapp username and password out of it
[13:44] <charl> but it gets worse
[13:44] <Kilos> eeek
[13:44] <charl> you need to make sure that whatsapp does not use encryption
[13:45] <charl> so you need to redirect the encrypted connection to an unencrypted tunnel through your computer
[13:45] <Kilos> whew
[13:45] <Kilos> same as trying the android emulator. major pt
[13:46] <Kilos> but pidgin always very light on data
[13:46] <Kilos> much less than irc
[13:47] <charl> actually, an encrypted tunnel, but where you are the one controlling the encryption
[13:48] <charl> or where you can crack it
[13:48] <charl> i am reading through the above posts but the exact procedure isn't clear to me either
[13:48] <charl> but it sounds really complex
[13:48] <charl> this is not something i would attempt on a saturday afternoon
[13:48] <Kilos> lol
[13:49] <Golynx> In the future i wana make a pidgin plugin that shows only the facebook updates of people i wana see posts from. Beats going into an app all the time or web browser
[13:49] <Kilos> maybe its like mxit
[13:49] <Kilos> you register via cell then use those particulars in pidgin
[13:49] <charl> Golynx: afaik facebook has a standard xmpp interface so that should be simple to do
[13:49] <charl> Golynx: because you can make use of any existing xmpp library
[13:49] <Kilos> pidgin has a fb plugin
[13:50] <charl> Kilos: the problem is you do not have any control over the password in whatsapp
[13:50] <charl> Kilos: it is automatically generated using the application itself
[13:50] <charl> Kilos: that means, to get the password is the problem
[13:50] <Kilos> oh my
[13:50] <Golynx> Yes i already use facebook messenger plugin for pidgin
[13:51] <charl> you should be able to base it directly off that, just create your own patch to libpurple like this other person did
[13:51] <charl> then you can even use it inside of other clients like bitlbee too
[13:51] <Kilos> if you see too many fb peeps in pidgin you can block some of them
[13:51] <Golynx> I will wana make it show actual posts from facebook users. That requiers more programming
[13:52] <Kilos> please work it out for me charl
[13:52] <Kilos> not fb
[13:52] <Kilos> fb pidgin sucks
[13:52] <Kilos> too many peeps
[13:52] <Golynx> lol Kilos
[13:53] <Golynx> Cant be, just disable showing offline friends and show from last actvity
[13:56] <Kilos> i have mxit and aim in pidgin and gtalk sometimes too
[13:56] <Kilos> no place for fb
[13:57] <Golynx> Aah personal preference
[13:57] <Kilos> yeah
[14:08] <charl> Kilos: i *think* it can be done
[14:08] <charl> using whatsapi: https://github.com/venomous0x/WhatsAPI
[14:09] <charl> How can I obtain my password?
[14:09] <charl> Register a number using WhatsAPI or intercept your phone's password using MissVenom
[14:09] <charl> because you don't already have an account you can simply register your new number using whatsapi
[14:09] <charl> do you know what your number is?
[14:17] <charl> here's a good example: https://github.com/venomous0x/WhatsAPI/blob/master/src/php/exampleRegister.php
[14:20] <charl> no wait, actually you are looking for this: https://github.com/venomous0x/WhatsAPI/blob/master/src/php/whatsprot.class.php#L164
[14:21] <charl> Register account on WhatsApp using the provided code.
[14:23] <charl> you give your phone number when you construct the object: https://github.com/venomous0x/WhatsAPI/blob/master/src/php/whatsprot.class.php#L61
[14:23] <charl> i'm not sure what the whole $identity business is
[14:23] <charl> if it's not valid it seems to construct a new one
[14:24] <charl> conclusion: it looks pretty well documented but you will need to do some programming and trial/error
[14:25] <charl> what the legality etc is, and if this is against the terms of service of whatsapp, that i do not know
[14:25] <charl> only thing i know for sure is this is something i would not even want to attempt
[14:25] <Kilos> ya i know the sim in the modems number
[14:25] <Kilos> sorr i fetched the sheep
[14:26] <charl> np
[14:27] <charl> so basically, you input your phone number and desired "friendly" name and you get back a generated password
[14:27] <charl> i just don't understand the whole identity business
[14:28] <Kilos> i cant do programming man
[14:28] <charl> don't even bother then :)
[14:28] <Kilos> lol
[14:29] <charl> sorry but that's the only answer i can give you
[14:29] <Kilos> ok
[14:29] <Kilos> ty
[14:29] <charl> np :)
[14:29] <charl> if i had a mobile phone and i wasn't concerned about the legality i would have attempted it myself first
[14:29] <Golynx> Aah php :)
[14:29] <charl> then i could have given you better instructions
[14:30] <Kilos> ill get ian to register from his modems sim
[14:30] <charl> yeah exactly
[14:30] <charl> ask someone with an android phone, but then you will still need to do the man in the middle attack
[14:31] <Kilos> ai!
[14:31] <charl> sorry but i would really not advise, but this is up to you :)
[14:34] <Golynx> Whatsapp will always wana patch up though. Else they loose money
[14:39] <Kilos> i would like to have it because ian says it dont eat fone battery like mxit so they all use whatsapp
[14:43] <charl> you get some really cheap android phones these days, especially those from huawei
[14:43] <charl> they cost practically nothing and they are quite solid
[14:43] <charl> i used to have one of those, the huawei ideos
[14:46] <Golynx> Saw a vodafone launch 2013 selling at 699 with android 4.2. Thats very cheap for running such an os
[14:48] <charl> just googled some more and it looks like using an android emulator is the way to go
[14:48] <Kilos> eek
[14:48] <charl> then you can also emulate your phone number / sim card
[14:48] <Kilos> i can get a 500g drive for that price or less
[14:48] <charl> Golynx: this one i had cost like half of that
[14:49] <charl> bought it in kenya
[14:50] <Golynx> Hope not the black market charl
[14:51] <charl> no of course not, bah
[14:51] <charl> that's the regular selling price
[14:53] <Golynx> oh thats good
[15:01] <charl> https://singularityhub.com/2011/08/16/80-android-phone-sells-like-hotcakes-in-kenya-the-world-next/
[15:03] <charl> http://www.cio.co.ke/news/main-stories/safaricom,-huawei-officially-launch-ideos-ascend-y100/
[15:03] <charl> The device which was launched at a subsidised price of Ksh 8,500 and 1 GB of  bundled data.
[15:03] <charl> 8500 ksh is about 100 usd
[15:03] <charl> but it *is* subsidised mind you
[15:03] <Golynx> Hmm nice, that would be a good market for my phonegap apps
[15:03] <charl> but the one i had was the one from 2011, the former 80 dollar phone
[15:04] <charl> the phone *was* slow though
[15:04] <charl> openstreetmap was impossible to use
[15:04] <charl> didn't try that many apps, ran off android 2,2 or 2,4 or something
[15:05] <Golynx> ya that depends on the OS , the newer ones can handle more processes
[15:05] <charl> no the processor was terrible
[15:06] <charl> http://www.huaweidevice.com/resource/mini/201008174756/ideos/
[15:07] <charl> i actually thought it cost even less, the one i got, 80 usd sounds expensive now
[15:08] <charl> maybe it was a different exchange rate back then
[15:08] <charl> i thought it cost like half that
[15:19] <Golynx> lol yeah thats old hardware
[15:23] <Golynx> R699 for a Android 4.2 OS in 2013 is really cheap
[15:30] <charl> it sounds really good
[15:30] <charl> oh whow 47 euro
[15:30] <charl> that is cheap indeed
[15:30] <Kilos> Seagate® Barracuda™ 500GB ,7200RPM (SATA 6GB/S) 16 MB Cache
[15:30] <Kilos>  R549+vat
[15:30] <charl> i saw a polaroid phone the other day for 100 euro
[15:32] <charl> ok i need to do some work
[15:32] <charl> bbl
[15:32] <Kilos> enjoy
[15:33] <Kilos> bbl
[18:43] <Kilos> bedtime for me. night all. sleep tight


[13:12] <xubuntu43i007> HI IWANT TO INSTALL WINDOWS ALONG XUBUNTU WHAT SHOULD I DO
[20:06] <Woowoo678> It seems like after updating, i am no longer able to login to XFCE via LightDM
[20:06] <Woowoo678> instead i have to run startx from a terminal
[20:07] <well_laid_lawn> Woowoo678:  tried to reinstall lightdm ?
[20:09] <Woowoo678> yeah, i did


[00:12] <mup> Issue operator#921 closed: Update docs to recommend new import style <docs> <Created by benhoyt> <Closed by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/921>
[01:14] <mup> Issue operator#1033 closed: Should `can_connect` blindly return False when in the install hook? <Created by sed-i> <Closed by benhoyt> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1033>
[06:23] <mup> Issue operator#1043 opened: Actions with large outputs fail with OSError: [Errno 7] Argument list too long <Created by kot0dama> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/issues/1043>
[23:06] <mup> PR operator#1044 opened: docs: document more of the exceptions that may be raised <docs> <Created by tonyandrewmeyer> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/1044>


[17:29] <studio-user203> Hello, is this the place to ask for technical help?
[17:29] <OvenWerks> sure
[17:30] <OvenWerks> depending on what it is you want to know, there may be better places though
[17:31] <OvenWerks> If your question is desktop specific, to do with xfce, then #xubuntu would be better. If it is system related (network, booting etc.) then #ubuntu would be better
[17:32] <OvenWerks> for audio, this is a good place
[17:32] <OvenWerks>  There are also some people here who understand video quite well
[17:32] <studio-user203> It's about booting, I'll try #ubuntu then, thank you very much.
[18:50] <MaynardWaters> I can talk about kdenlive
[18:50] <MaynardWaters> i wonder if there is a #kdenlive chat


[12:15] <mup> PR snapcraft#4191 opened: Hotfix/7.4 merge <Created by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4191>
[13:05] <mup> PR snapcraft#4192 opened: requirements: bump craft-providers <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4192>
[13:40] <mup> PR snapcraft#4193 opened: kde-neon-extension: remove extra build environment variables that are... <Created by ScarlettGatelyMoore> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4193>
[16:26] <ahasenack> hi snappy people, can someone tell me if core18 snaps are out of support now, given that bionic is?
[17:05] <mup> Issue snapcraft#4194 opened: Migrate snapcraft_legacy subcommands to use craft-cli <Enhancement> <Created by mr-cal> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/issues/4194>
[17:21] <mup> PR snapd#12865 opened: interfaces/audio: allow access to pipewire socket for core desktop <Created by sergio-costas> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/12865>
[17:52] <ogra> ahasenack, core snaps are usually supported for 10y ... but snapcraft will soon drop support for core18 so you won't be able to build for it anymore
[18:45] <ahasenack> ok, thanks
[19:15] <mup> PR snapcraft#4191 closed: Hotfix/7.4 merge <Created by sergiusens> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4191>
[19:15] <mup> PR snapcraft#4195 opened: build(deps): bump cryptography from 40.0.2 to 41.0.0 <Dependencies> <Python> <Created by dependabot[bot]> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4195>
[20:15] <mup> PR snapcraft#4196 opened: [WIP] tox CI integration improvements <do-not-merge> <Created by lengau> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4196>
[20:25] <mup> PR snapcraft#4196 closed: [WIP] tox CI integration improvements <do-not-merge> <Created by lengau> <Closed by lengau> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4196>
[21:26] <mup> PR snapcraft#4197 opened: WIP: tox CI updates <Created by lengau> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4197>
[21:41] <mup> PR snapcraft#4197 closed: WIP: tox CI updates <Created by lengau> <Closed by lengau> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4197>
[21:41] <mup> PR snapcraft#4198 opened: WIP: tox ci updates <Created by lengau> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4198>
[21:56] <mup> PR snapcraft#4192 closed: requirements: bump craft-providers <Created by mr-cal> <Merged by sergiusens> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapcraft/pull/4192>


[01:21] <gary_poster> another review, though no rush: I plan to go now :-) : https://codereview.appspot.com/8647043
[12:52] <bac> hi frankban.  i'm trying to reproduce bug 1167344 but can't do it right now
[12:52] <_mup_> Bug #1167344: Deployment via the juju-core API fails with a "no options to set" error in some cases <juju-core:New> <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167344 >
[12:52] <bac> when i try to add dokuwiki i get a ghost service but then the service never fully deploys and i don't see the error you reported
[12:53] <rogpeppe> bac: is this with trunk?
[12:54] <bac> rogpeppe: i'm using a local branch based on trunk from ~1700UTC yesterday
[12:55] <bac> trunk + some debug messages
[12:55] <frankban> rogpeppe, bac: I bet this is fixed in trunk
[12:56] <frankban> bac: I just succeeded in deploying docuwiki, which was one of the problematic charms
[12:56] <rogpeppe> bac: hmm, i think i fixed it in rev 1139
[12:56] <bac> frankban: ok, i'll update and try again
[12:56] <bac> rogpeppe: thanks!
[12:56] <rogpeppe> bac: but i'd be interested to know if you're running a version before that
[12:57] <rogpeppe> bac: because perhaps i didn't really fix the problem...
[12:58] <bac> rogpeppe: actually i was running older than that.  looks like 1130
[12:58] <rogpeppe> bac: hmm, i'm a bit surprised it doesn't fail for you
[12:59] <rogpeppe> bac: but that bug doesn't have much info on how to reproduce it...
[13:03] <bac> rogpeppe: we'll see what happens now
[13:03] <gary_poster> rick_h_, fwiw the jenkins failure we just had (in IE) was browser search widget: should support search change events: timeout of 200ms exceeded.  I am guessing that's an intermittent one, unfortunately.  retrying, but if you all have ideas on making that more reliable it would be fab
[13:05] <rick_h_> gary_poster: ok, hatch and I were talking about it a little bit the other day. There's one idea to try out on it. I'll file a bug/card for it.
[13:17] <gary_poster> cool thanks hatch
[13:18] <gary_poster> bah
[13:18] <gary_poster> cool thanks rick_h_
[13:22] <benji> gary_poster: I commented on the ID-munging branch not realizing that it had already landed.
[13:23] <benji> I think the things I noted are worth another branch.
[13:24] <gary_poster> benji, thanks for safe id review comments.  This is landed already, so I passed them on to Francesco, who is working in a related part of the codebase in his current branch.  FWIW, my choice of underlines only within the .replace was conscious--in fact, I initially had what you describe.  I decided I wanted a dash to separate the replaced value from the hash value, and to have the division between the two visually c
[13:24] <gary_poster> lear by not usuing hyphens elsewhere.  I don't think the decision is problematic (unlike, potentially, your comment about needing to not start with a number--actually in html 5 you can, and in html 4 you can't but you also can't start with a dash, and I forget about the CSS rule but it is in the bug, but anyway it sounds fine to me).  Francesco and I agreed that he would add the character, and I said that he ought t
[13:24] <gary_poster> o do whatever he wanted with the dash stuff, which IMO is entirely stylistic.
[13:24] <gary_poster> benji, I started writing the above not realizing that you would write about it here before I finished.  Or that I would write a novel. :-)
[13:24] <benji> heh
[13:25] <benji> sounds like it's being handled
[13:25] <gary_poster> cool
[13:29] <bac> frankban, rogpeppe: ok, with juju-core trunk i can now deploy dokuwiki.  frankban did the error in bug 1167344 happen frequently?  was there any way to trigger the failure?
[13:29] <_mup_> Bug #1167344: Deployment via the juju-core API fails with a "no options to set" error in some cases <juju-core:New> <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167344 >
[13:30] <frankban> bac: the only way to dupe I know is deploying dokuwiki from the GUI.
[13:31] <bac> frankban: how often did you see the failure?
[13:31] <hazmat> interesting migration comparison story of backbone style to angular .. http://www.localytics.com/blog/2013/angularjs-at-localytics/
[13:31] <rogpeppe> bac: in trunk you should not get that error because that error no longer exists...
[13:31] <frankban> bac: IIRC, it always failed
[13:32] <bac> rogpeppe: ok.
[13:35] <benji> I am getting a connection refused error when connecting to the juju websocket; is this a known issue?
[13:39] <bac> gary_poster: do we want to keep bug 1166153 around since we aren't using YUI 3.10 and it may be a bug in their code which is a pre-release version?
[13:39] <_mup_> Bug #1166153: The env view slider does not work in YUI >= 3.10 when the thumb is used to zoom in/out  <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1166153 >
[13:40] <gary_poster> bac, how bout mark as Incomplete
[13:40] <bac> gary_poster: but keep the card in the lane?
[13:40] <gary_poster> bac no
[13:41] <gary_poster> delete card
[13:41] <bac> gary_poster: +1
[13:41] <gary_poster> thank you for the gardening
[13:44] <bac> ugh, if you destroy a service and deploy another juju-core doesn't re-use the existing machine but creates a new one.  rogpeppe did pyjuju work that way?  is there a plan to re-use machines?
[13:45] <gary_poster> pyjuju reuses
[13:45] <gary_poster> pretty sure
[13:45] <rogpeppe> bac: reusing is bogus, i'm afraid
[13:45] <rogpeppe> bac: because a service has a right to assume it's being started on a pristine machine
[13:45] <bac> rogpeppe: yuck.
[13:45] <rogpeppe> bac: well, in a pristine *environment* anyway
[13:46] <rogpeppe> bac: when we implement containerisation, we'll be able to reuse machines
[13:46] <gary_poster> containerisation will be the default deployment behavior then, is the plan?
[13:46] <rogpeppe> gary_poster: yes
[13:46] <gary_poster> cool
[13:46] <rogpeppe> gary_poster: (probably)
[13:46] <gary_poster> yeah, assuming it is stable enough etc :-)
[13:47] <rogpeppe> bac: in the meantime, there's this in the offing: https://codereview.appspot.com/8520043/
[13:47] <gary_poster> frankban https://codereview.appspot.com/8657043/ LGTM
[13:48] <frankban> gary_poster: cool, thanks
[13:55] <gary_poster> Makyo, could you please send a quick email to hazmat documenting what you think he can show off on the tablet? To re-re-reiterate, "pretty picture only" is completely fine, per re-re-reconfirmation yesterday from Robbie via Deryck
[13:55] <Makyo> gary_poster, Sure.
[13:55] <gary_poster> thank you
[13:58] <hatch> morning
[13:59] <rick_h_> hatch: once you grab a coffee I wanted to see if you could block out some time to chat url adjusting, dispatch, etc for subapp/app/etc.
[14:00] <hatch> sure thing....10mins/
[14:00] <hatch> ?
[14:00] <rick_h_> sure
[14:06] <gary_poster> very small review request for small sandbox fix (card is in story A/review): https://codereview.appspot.com/8663043
[14:07] <bac> gary_poster: i'll do the review but i don't find the card
[14:07] <gary_poster> bac thank you. I sometimes have to reload? "Fix sandbox setconfig and speed up test"
[14:07] <gary_poster> i stitle on board
[14:08] <benji> I have to resize my root partition, it has reached capacity.  I'll (hopefully) be back soon.
[14:20] <frankban> guihelp: could anyone confirm bug 1167967? thanks, if it's confirmed I will create a card
[14:20] <_mup_> Bug #1167967: The GUI hangs when a service is destroyed from the service detail view <juju-gui:Triaged> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/1167967 >
[14:20] <frankban> (not related to juju-core)
[14:23] <bac> frankban: yes, i see that problem on uistage
[14:23] <frankban> bac: ok thanks
[14:23] <bac> after destroy it tries to stay on the service view, an error pops up, and the main canvas still shows the service.  after reload the service is gone
[14:25] <frankban> bac: I'll add this info to the bug. card created in High-Priority Maintenance
[14:26] <Makyo> gary_poster, alright if I land the add relation touch branch?
[14:26] <gary_poster> frankban, y
[14:26] <gary_poster> sorry Makyo y
[14:26] <Makyo> gary_poster, thanks
[14:43] <gary_poster> bac thanks.  one more review of https://codereview.appspot.com/8663043/, anyone?
[14:46] <gary_poster> It's so small!  so fast!
[14:49] <Makyo> I'll take it.
[14:49] <gary_poster> ty :-)
[14:55] <benji> I now have more (unwanted) experience recovering from grub boot failures.
[15:01] <hatch> anyone need any reviews?
[15:04] <teknico> hatch, a little birdie (well, not that little actually ;-) ) told me you're a node.js expert and I have a few questions, how about a quick hangout when you have time?
[15:04] <frankban> rogpeppe: I see juju failing to destroy some services, maybe those in an error state, but not sure. Is it a known issue? if not do you want to try to dupe?
[15:05] <rogpeppe> frankban: what are the symptoms?
[15:05] <frankban> rogpeppe: the service is still there after a "juju destroy-service" call
[15:05] <rogpeppe> frankban: for how long?
[15:05] <rogpeppe> frankban: does it remain forever?
[15:06] <frankban> rogpeppe: it's about five minutes now. in the delta, I've seen a "change" entry but not a "remove" entry. everything works well (and fast) for other services.
[15:08] <frankban> rogpeppe: the only difference is that the failing service (buildbot-master) is in an error state. could you try to dupe? just 1) bootstrap an env, 2) deploy buildbot-master, 3)wait till status says 'hook failed: "install" and 4) destroy buildbot-master
[15:08] <rogpeppe> frankban: interesting
[15:08] <rogpeppe> frankban: will try to dupe
[15:08] <frankban> rogpeppe: btw, the error state could be a coincidence
[15:08] <rogpeppe> frankban: maybe...
[15:09] <teknico> bbiab
[15:09] <hatch> teknico: lol...damn birds! I'm just eating some breakfast right now :) chat in 5?
[15:09] <teknico> hatch, yes, five or so, back soon
[15:09] <gary_poster> bcsaller, we need to deliver the charm for IS by tomorrow.  If you need additonal hands on task, please let me know.
[15:10] <gary_poster> We can improve charm next week, but we need functionality tomorrow
[15:10] <bcsaller> gary_poster: good info, I'll let you know at the meeting one way or the other
[15:10] <gary_poster> cool thx bcsaller
[15:11]  * gary_poster takes ubuntu touch tablet to UPS.  biab
[15:23] <teknico> back. hatch, when you're ready, no hurry
[15:23] <hatch> sure now works
[15:23] <hatch> guichat
[15:50] <gary_poster> jujugui, like yesterday.please update kanban board to reflect reality in next few minutes.  I will review 3 or 4 minutes before call to try to expedite call
[15:51] <hatch> gary_poster: can you fill us in on the canonistack stuff? The email didn't include any details :)
[15:52] <gary_poster> hatch, oh, right!  I meant to advertise widely.  summary: canonistack is not meant to be reliable.  if you want something reliable, you have their blessing to look elsewhere.  deryck is verifying
[15:52] <gary_poster> to make sure they say the same thing twice :-)
[15:52] <gary_poster> but that's what they said
[15:52] <gary_poster> so we can switch to ec2 or hp cloud
[15:52] <hatch> well there is a difference between reliable and not even able to start....but ok :) lol
[15:53] <rick_h_> yea, thought reliable was 'your instance can go away' not 'no instances for you ever'
[15:53] <hatch> but if we can switch that's also good news
[15:53] <gary_poster> rick_h_, hatch, heh, yeah, I said we could work with 95% reliable but not with <10% reliable :-)
[15:54] <hatch> haha
[15:54] <hatch> jeesh we could even work with 75% reliable :D
[15:54] <gary_poster> :-)
[15:57] <gary_poster> jujugui call in 2; reviewing kanban
[15:57] <gary_poster> 3, that is
[16:09] <rick_h_>  jovan2 luca__ you guys have a minute?
[16:10] <jovan2> hi rick_h: sure
[16:10] <rick_h_> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/5fea451cd85e565fc97faa543c4f904f4c39dac0?authuser=0&hl=en jovan2 luca__
[16:15] <bac> hatch: tomorrow's meeting i go to the roof!
[16:16] <hatch> haha is the weather that nice there all the time?
[16:20] <hatch> does anyone know of any two charms with multiple possible relationships?
[16:20] <hatch> jujugui ^
[16:21] <hatch> save me from having to write out a fake charm data
[16:22] <Makyo> hatch, hadoop to itself.
[16:22] <Makyo> 8 possible relations.
[16:22] <hatch> nice
[16:22] <frankban> hatch: mysql-mediawiki
[16:22] <Makyo> Yeah, that too, should have a slave and a db.
[16:23] <hatch> ooo I missed tests for peer relations
[16:23] <hatch> thanks Makyo :)
[16:23] <Makyo> hatch, well, this was one hadoop instance to another, but hey, bonus :)
[16:26] <hatch> mysql and mediawiki don't have multiple possible requires=provides interfaces :(
[16:27] <hatch> Makyo: can hadoop actually relate to itself? it doesn't share any of the same interface names in it's provides/requires
[16:28] <hatch> it has namenode, ganglia, jobtracker vs secondarynamenode, datanode, tasktracker, mapred-namenode
[16:28] <Makyo> hatch, I see 8 possible relations (well, four, but going both ways) on uistage
[16:29] <hatch> *EXPLICIT* *EXPLICIT* *EXPLICIT* *EXPLICIT*
[16:29] <hatch> so it relates on the interface type not the interface name :/
[16:32] <hatch> ugh
[16:35] <hatch> so now I'm totally confused - why are there multiple ways to specify the same interface?
[16:36] <hatch> hadoop for example has secondarynamenode, datanode and mapred-namenode all pointing to dfs
[16:36] <hatch> are each one handled by a different hook?
[16:42] <hatch> for example serviceA:foo could relate to serviceB:bar if their interfaces are the same
[16:43] <hatch> the name is irrelevant
[16:43] <gary_poster> hatch, bcsaller is the one to talk to.  Everyone else will be guessing at least in part (at least I would be)
[16:44] <bcsaller> hatch: the name of what you call the relationship in your charm determines what hook get called. Each relationship has its own hooks.
[16:45] <hatch> ok so serviceA:bar could relate to serviceB:foo as long as their interfaces are the same
[16:45] <hatch> even though they are named something totally different
[16:45] <bcsaller> hatch: yes, its the interface that is important, not what the charm calls it locally. Sorry if that wasn't clear
[16:46] <gary_poster> benji, your current work is, partly or completely, in juju core/go?
[16:46] <benji> gary_poster: I think everything I need to do is constrained to the gui
[16:47] <benji> (but I have to get juju to run to actually see it work)
[16:51] <hatch> ctrl+a del
[16:51] <gary_poster> cool thanks benji.  did you get help from rogpeppe?
[16:52] <benji> gary_poster: we're in the middle of diagnosing now; he and mgz seem to have tracked it down, but it doesn't sound like a quick fix
[16:52] <gary_poster> uh oh
[16:57] <gary_poster> jujugui, heads up: AIUI, Tuesday is the last day to make any changes to Juju Core.  Hopefully we are set *now*, but if we are not, the sooner we discover a bug in Juju Core the better.
[17:25] <rick_h_> jovan2: ping, is the font color for the "Recent activity" line in the charm token that orange color used in links?
[17:26] <rick_h_> jovan2: it's blocked out as "(Charm activity info?)" and I wondered if that orange was part of noting it, or actual for the text
[17:26] <jovan2> rick_h_: no it should not be orange
[17:26] <rick_h_> jovan2: the reason I ask is that otherwise the recent activity blends into the description below
[17:26] <rick_h_> jovan2: so I was trying to see how to seperate it visually
[17:27] <jovan2> rick_h_: greg has done some work on the visual design today and hope to issue it to you tomorrow after review with Alehandra
[17:28] <rick_h_> jovan2: ok, I'll leave it as is for now then. http://uploads.mitechie.com/lp/recent_activity_blends.png is what I mean for the record
[17:28] <jovan2> rick_h_: yeah I see it's a problem but leave as is for now
[17:29] <rick_h_> jovan2: k, thanks
[17:48] <rick_h_> doh and he's gone
[18:52] <hatch> AssertionError: expected 'No shared interfaces.' to equal 'No shared Interfaces.'
[18:52] <hatch> umm
[18:52] <hatch> anyone else see a difference there?
[18:53] <hatch> oh
[18:53] <hatch> nm
[18:53] <hatch> :)
[18:58] <rick_h_> case matters ftw
[19:01] <hatch> I swore I read that line 20 times and didn't see that hah
[19:01] <hatch> it could also be that i'm "hate coding" right now because I'm sick of rewriting this relations code :D
[19:02] <hatch> good news is that it gets better every time....well avoiding the fact that it was done to the wrong spec the first two times
[19:02] <hatch> s/avoiding/ignoring
[19:02] <hatch> :D
[19:08] <rick_h_> hatch: got a second for a quick review? https://codereview.appspot.com/8561048/
[19:08] <hatch> sure
[19:08] <rick_h_> thanks
[19:11] <hatch> donezo
[19:11] <rick_h_> awesome, appreciate it ( jcsackett ^ )
[19:13] <jcsackett> rick_h_: oh, thanks.
[19:31] <benji> is anyone else seeing "[14:30:34.429] The connection to wss://ec2-72-44-32-91.compute-1.amazonaws.com:17070/ was interrupted while the page was loading. @ http://localhost:8888/juju-ui/assets/javascripts/reconnecting-websocket.js:80" when connecting to the go environment?
[19:35] <Makyo> benji, I got that when I rebootstrapped, and had to go delete the certificates from FF, then re-accept them manually.
[19:36] <benji> unfortunately, I have already gone through that procedure... no wait!  I have rebootstrapped, thanks Makyo
[19:41] <Makyo> Hmm.  It appears that destroying a service while it's pending removes the service and unit(s), but not the machine(s).
[19:42] <Makyo> And destroying a service that is stuck in pending or in error fails silently.
[19:43] <Makyo> Not having any GUI-core communication issues, though.
[19:57] <gary_poster> great Makyo.  please file those juju core bugs and maybe put them in our tracking?  Also, benji or Makyo, would be cool to see that rebootstrap thing in the blog notes, like Makyo's earlier helpful blog.
[19:58] <gary_poster> review request: small changes, and would particularly like bcsaller to look because I touched the router. https://codereview.appspot.com/8680043
[19:59] <bcsaller> gary_poster: reading it now
[19:59] <gary_poster> thank you
[19:59] <Makyo> I'll do the blog thing real quick, then bugs.
[19:59] <gary_poster> cool thanks
[20:58] <bac> any one up for a review of destroy_service addition to fakeness? https://codereview.appspot.com/8684043
[20:59]  * bac -> dw
[21:32]  * gary_poster will if he has time before dinner
[22:24] <gary_poster> Makyo, you still around to review https://codereview.appspot.com/8680043/ by chance?  (hatch, I'd ask you, but I bet you are trying to get your branch wrapped up)
[22:25] <hatch> I can do it
[22:25] <Makyo> I'm around, too.
[22:25] <hatch> ok you can do it
[22:25] <hatch> :)
[22:25] <gary_poster> (bac I decided not to review yours till after you replied to Ben)
[22:25] <gary_poster> ok thanks, hatch, Makyo :-)
[22:32] <bac> gary_poster: ok.  thanks for the review bcsaller


[21:39] <philipballew> blitz, yeah, about twice as much maybe?
[21:39] <philipballew> the San Diego, Tijuana region is about 4 million.
[21:40] <philipballew> Also I think  am speaking at Free Software day there if anyone ever wanted to join.


 @Wolfenprey, Panel is a bit too small, but it looks good!
 @Schyken, Yeah, maybe with some more tweaks can do the work
 I like it :D DamaDamas icons?
 @Schyken, Idk really, all it's from a "win10 transformation pack"
 i like to show it to windowed friends XD
 Ah, looks great. It definitely does the trick, hah
 http://b00merang.weebly.com/windows-10.html it's from that web, no spam intended
[16:39] <gilir> hi agaida, I'm tring to fix the daily builds on the PPA, but I should be able build the packages directly from debian git
[16:40] <agaida> should work
[16:40] <gilir> agaida: but, currently lxqt-build-tools fail because there is no HEAD ref
[16:40] <gilir> and launchpad doesn't like it :-)
 @gilir, Hey there, get my ping from the other day? :)
[16:41] <agaida> grr - wait a second
[16:41] <gilir> tsimonq2: yes, it's second in my TODO list, after the daily build stuff :-)
[16:42] <agaida> gilir: but there will be a problem
[16:42] <agaida> rigth now it will not work
[16:43] <agaida> aka you would need the head debian/experimental
 @gilir, OK excellent :)
[16:43] <agaida> for 0.12.0
[16:43] <gilir> agaida: well I planned to build from experimental-snapshots/latest branch
[16:44] <agaida> ok - that would work - in that case we should kill the symbol files there
[16:44] <gilir> it seems to be the easiest way
[16:45] <agaida> because i suspect that slightly different versions of anything in ubuntu and sid would create a symbols mess
 gilir: I wrote up some hacky tooling to do daily builds but the code is super ugly and hacky... I look forward to a better solution ;)
[16:45] <agaida> ok, back to lxqt-build-tools
[16:46] <gilir> possible :-) symbols files are not really nice for automated builds :-)
[16:47] <gilir> tsimonq2: I hope to use launchpad git support to do all the work for us, hopefully with 0 work for the builds / PPA / launchpad part :-)
[16:48] <agaida> gilir: is debian/sid ok for you
 @gilir, Speaking of that, now that Artful is done with, I think we have a long overdue lubuntu-default-settings rework to do. ;)
[16:48] <agaida> as head?
[16:48] <gilir> agaida: yes, as long as HEAD ref exist, it's ok for me
 @gilir, And if at all possible I'd like to move away from Bazaar... Thoughts?
 Oh and hi agaida ;)
[16:48] <agaida> hi tsimonq2
[16:49] <gilir> tsimonq2: +1 for a git migration :-)
 @gilir, Awesome :) so what's the plan for Lubuntu-default-settings reorganization then?
[16:51] <gilir> tsimonq2: is Qt finally support the custom directories for config files ?
[16:52] <agaida> Qt: better, LXQt - we will see :D
[16:53] <agaida> https://pb.5id.eu/d-KY
[16:53] <gilir> tsimonq2: you are added to the lubuntu-dev team, don't mess with it please ;-)
 @gilir, Oh thanks!
[16:54] <gilir> agaida: thanks :-) let's see if it's working now
[16:54] <agaida> gilir: i talked also with tsimonq2 about the configs - Qt should handle them better, in case something is missed we should solve it "the right way"™ upstream
[16:54] <agaida> gilir: no problem, yw
 @gilir, And yes, I did some playing and I have a patch that loads our default settings by default
 I'll work with upstream As Much As Possible
[16:56] <gilir> agaida: yes, we should keep only branding and ubuntu specific stuff in default settings
 I'm at school but tonight I'll submit anything relevant to upstream and get a patch to look at for Lubuntu-default-settings
[16:56] <agaida> long standing bug
 @agaida, True.
 And gilir, LXQt 0.12 is the best release yet
 In my honest opinion it's ready for a little more than a test image once we get this settings bug worked out ;)
 I think we should get the LTS out of the way and go from there with discussions. What do you think gilir?
[17:01] <gilir> tsimonq2: step by step :-) first daily build, second 0.12 in bionic, third list the missing parts between the LXDE and the LXQt
 Yep
 My point is that seems to be doable in this cycle
 agaida: How's LXQt 0.12 stability in Experimental?
[17:02] <gilir> well, like always, it depends on the available time of everyone
 @gilir, True.
[17:03] <agaida> tsimonq2: you are joking, right? :P
 @agaida, Kinda :P
[17:03] <agaida> but to be true - i run the finished parts on my production machine
 (yes I know Debian NEW is slow :P)
 And so do I.
[17:04] <agaida> faked lxqt-themes
 What did you fake?
[17:05] <agaida> and there is no difference to any other release - the only thing about experimental is: we need a place to gather the packages and prepare the transition to sid
 Yeah
[17:05] <agaida> lxqt-theme - try to install something if a dependency can't fulfilled
[17:07] <agaida> but now to something completely different - i guess it would be cool to kill the symbols right now in snapshots
[17:07] <gilir> agaida: is there something not-safe on https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-lxqt, or I can grap all of them for the PPA ?
[17:08] <agaida> what do you mean with not safe?
[17:09] <agaida> the packaging is one day before the official release, so i should sync to experimental - thats all
[17:10] <gilir> agaida: I mean something which is a work-in-progress, and should not be shipped yet on the PPA
[17:14] <agaida> pkg-lxqt/featherpad	Lightweight Qt5 Plain-Text Editor for Linux - not yet in debian
[17:14] <agaida> pkg-lxqt/sddm-config-editor	SDDM config editor
[17:14] <agaida> pkg-lxqt/trojita	trojita packaging
[17:14] <agaida> dito
[17:15] <agaida> but planned
[17:15] <agaida> pkg-lxqt/lxqt-themes-extra	LXQt Themes for debian and derivatives -- not implemented yet
[17:16] <agaida> pkg-lxqt - standard repo - empty
[17:18] <gilir> agaida: ok thanks :-)
[17:18] <agaida> trojita, sddm-config-edior and featherpad will go in step by step, featherpad first, then sddm-config-editor and trojita if upstream improve the stability somewhen
[17:19] <gilir> general annoucement: I'll probably break the daily PPA for lxqt components in a few minutes / hours :-p
[17:21]  * agaida think - and whats the difference to the current state?
[17:21]  * agaida duck, crawls away and hidew
[17:22] <gilir> the current state is not-updated-for-too-long, not broken (I think) :-)
[17:23] <gilir> also it may break lxqt install from official repo, for people who have the daily PPA
[17:23] <agaida> right
[17:24] <agaida> the adventage will be that we could break and replace old things and make the ppa compatible to the current packaging
[18:04] <gilir> agaida: missing HEAD ref also on lxqt-l10n
[18:05] <gilir> and yes, symbol files break some of the builds on missing symbols :-)
[18:05] <agaida> the symbols should be gone
[18:07] <agaida> lxqt-l10n HEAD done#


[01:57] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Santiago Zarate: gentoo eix-update failure @ https://foursixnine.io/blog/2018/11/04/gentoo-eix-update-failure.html
[05:00] <krytarik> Bashing-om: It would appear on trying to address my raised concern on the Xubuntu Development summary, you repasted what you had locally undoing all changes I already made there - and also the way you addressed the former makes me want to pass on any further reviewing of this issue and maybe more.
[05:09] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Still not up to your standards .. I can try try again . tomorrow .
[22:19] <Bashing-om> UWN552: critique and proof read, please.
[23:01] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Tiago Carrondo: S01E08 â Chocos com tinta @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/2018/11/04/s01e08-chocos-com-tinta/
[23:43] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Stephen Michael Kellat: Writing Up Plan B @ http://skellat.freeshell.org/blog/writing-up-plan-b.html
[23:45] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Portugal:: S01E08 – Chocos com tinta @ https://podcastubuntuportugal.org/2018/11/04/s01e08-chocos-com-tinta/


[09:52] <mup> PR snapd#11188 opened: Dirty verrsions <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11188>
[10:23] <mup> PR snapd#11185 closed: release: 2.54 <Skip spread> <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/11185>
[10:37] <mup> PR core#127 opened: snapcraft.yaml: account for new "info" file <Created by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/127>
[15:52] <mup> PR core#127 closed: snapcraft.yaml: account for new "info" file <Created by mvo5> <Merged by mvo5> <https://github.com/snapcore/core/pull/127>