[00:06] <mhall119> pleia2: and puppet helps users manage/update applications on Ubuntu
[01:02] <pleia2> mhall119: yeah, I'm familair with puppet :)
[01:19] <akgraner> The Fedora Community actually pulled off Beefy Miracle as the Release Name for Fedora 17 :-)
[01:20] <mhall119> they did?
[01:20] <akgraner> yeppers :-)  just got the release name announcement
[01:21] <mhall119> I'm a bit surprised, I got the impression that the Fedora devs were opposed to it in the last cycle
[01:26] <akgraner> I dunno but according to the vote that's what won out.
[01:27] <pleia2> it still creeps me out, but at least now that it's done I don't need to hear all the campaigning for it for another cycle ;)
[01:28] <akgraner> At FUDCon the t-shirts were hilarious (at least the first draft I saw of them)
[01:28] <mhall119> oh boy, I can't wait until a fedora user starts saying that people won't take animal named releases seriously
[01:33] <akgraner> I think it was more of a community stand kinda thing, but I don't have anyone to quote on that
[01:34] <akgraner> though I am working on getting one :-)
[01:35] <mhall119> heck, if all you need is a quote, I'll say almost anything ;)
[01:35] <mhall119> are you allowed to use anonymous sources?
[01:36] <pleia2> she'll say it's from an "Unnamed Canonical employee"
[01:36] <pleia2> that'll go well, always does
[01:39] <mhall119> :(
[01:39] <mhall119> I used fedora once, can't I still claim that?
[01:40] <pleia2> oh sure :)
[01:42] <mhall119> wait, less than 300 people voted?
[01:42] <pleia2> hmm, I wish the cloud blog had a "previous posts" button
[01:43] <pleia2> (I took a break for dinner, but now I'm back at it)
[01:45] <pleia2> oh hey, this is great http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2011/08/formal-introduction-to-ubuntu-orchestra.html
[01:56] <pleia2> http://voices.canonical.com/shang.wu/2011/08/31/oneiric-ubuntu-orchestra-server-provision-server-setup/ winner \o/
[02:00] <akgraner> pleia2, dustin has some awesome blog posts and does great interviews
[02:01] <pleia2> akgraner: yeah, I just wish this stuff made its way to proper documentation, it took me far too long to find it
[02:02] <pleia2> or at least linked somewhere, this stuff was just hanging out there in the tubes
[02:02] <pleia2> and when you're on a 3g modem, that's not awesome :)
[02:02] <akgraner> :-(
[02:15] <akgraner> Is the cursor going to show up in the url bar by Thursday>
[02:15] <akgraner> s/>/?
[02:30] <akgraner> There isn't just a -P sprint
[02:31] <akgraner> you can only choose "Linaro Connect Q4.11 and UDS P"  there  is no choice for just "UDS P"
[02:32] <Martyn> Hey there Amber
[02:32] <akgraner> ok so it shows up as UDS-P on the blueprint whew :-)
[02:33] <akgraner> Hi
[02:33] <akgraner> and I think I actually got the name convention right this time  - let's hope so
[02:52] <akgraner> ok so that blueprint is off my list :-) yay
[04:09] <jono> hey folks
[04:16] <jono> jcastro, around?
[04:17] <jono> jcastro, actually, ignore
[04:19] <ejat> czajkowski : r u here?
[04:21] <Pendulum> ejat: she's probably asleep
[04:22]  * ejat need canonical staff person contact detail (US) for my VISA application … can someone help?
[04:23] <ejat> or UDS Person in charge contact information ..
[04:23] <jono> ejat, for UDS?
[04:23] <ejat> jono .. yes
[04:24] <jono> ejat, one sec
[04:24] <jono> ejat<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:24] <jono> she handles UDS travel
[04:24] <jono> she should be able to help with your Visa
[04:24] <ejat> yeah .. i already send her email …
[04:24] <jono> no response?
[04:24] <ejat> but online application require me : Contact Person or Organization in the United States
[04:25] <jono> ejat, ahhh I see
[04:25] <jono> ejat, I think Marianna can provide the best person - I will see her in a few hours and will ask her to reply to your email
[04:25] <ejat> stuck cannot proceed to the next form ..
[04:26] <ejat> jono : did canonical have office in US ?
[04:26] <jono> ejat, we do
[04:26] <jono> ejat, but I want to ensure Marianna gives you the right details
[04:26] <ejat> can i have US office number or is it at the website ?
[04:27] <ejat> and address ..
[04:27] <jono> ejat, Marianna will provide these to you
[04:27] <ejat> http://www.canonical.com/about-canonical/contact/our-offices
[04:27] <jono> just wait a few hours and she will respond
[04:27] <ejat> can i use that ?
[04:27] <jono> ejat, please, sorry to repeat myself, but wait for Marianna to reply
[04:27] <jono> she will advise
[04:27] <jono> I don't want to tell you to use the wrong info
[04:28] <ejat> ok .. i will ..
[04:29] <jono> thanks ejat
[04:29] <ejat> i should thanks to u :)
[04:33] <jono> ejat, looking forward to seeing you at UDS!
[04:34] <ejat> yeah .. me too .. thats y i wanna proceed the visa application a.s.a.p :)
[04:35] <jono> ejat, don't worry, we will get it sorted
[04:35] <jono> hopefully they will process it in time
[04:35] <ejat> :)
[04:35] <jono> sometimes it takes the US Gov't a while to process visas
[04:36] <ejat> yeah .. or else .. ill be miss the UDS :( … yeah .. need the interview session some more ..
[04:46] <doctormo> Hey jono, got your email, just responded.
[04:47] <jono> thanks doctormo!
[05:40]  * jono grabbing breakfast
[05:40] <jono> back soon
[05:41] <czajkowski> ejat: I am whats up
[05:42] <czajkowski> erw: ah you're sorted so, jono is looking after it, I have nthing to do with UDS
[06:23] <jono> czajkowski, :-)
[06:29] <jono> yikes, is anyone seeing an error at http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ /
[06:30]  * jono reports bug
[06:46] <dpm> good morning all
[06:48] <nigelb> jono: Out of memory error, wworks now
[06:48] <nigelb> its a transient problem we've been having on the machiinie
[06:49] <jono> thanks nigelb
[06:49] <jono> hey dpm
[06:50] <dpm> morning jono :)
[06:51] <czajkowski> jono: standard bug these days on that machine
[06:51] <czajkowski> the lads know about it
[06:52] <czajkowski> I'll poke someone in IS when they're up
[06:52] <czajkowski> jono: bug is gone
[06:52] <jono> thanks czajkowski!
[06:52] <czajkowski> jono: no bother NG and the folks in there know about the machine I reguarly threaten to wallop it with a sledge hammer but nobody has yet told me the location of the server
[06:53] <jono> lol
[06:53] <czajkowski> jono: you down in the plaza as well or gone to Mill bank may see you on my way to work
[06:54] <popey> morning
[06:54] <nigelb> czajkowski: Its in Canonical's london data center I think. (leased from Level 3?)
[06:54] <jono> sweet, I found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VTtW31-prA&hd=1
[06:54] <jono> :-)
[06:55] <nigelb> Morning popey!
[06:55] <jono> hey popey
[06:55] <nigelb> I didn't realize how much work went into the countdown website.
[06:55] <nigelb> Its *awesome* :-)
[06:55] <jono> totally
[06:57] <czajkowski> jono: mind if I makr your bug invalid as ng mhall119 and all others know the issue with the machine
[06:57] <nigelb> Its already invalid. I marked it earlier when I told him about it.
[06:57] <czajkowski> it's more annoyin when I get the errors when I;m adding team data
[06:57] <jono> czajkowski, sure, thanks!
[07:00] <czajkowski> np
[07:00] <czajkowski> right to work
[07:00] <czajkowski> busy day ahead
[07:00] <czajkowski> toodles
[07:07] <dholbach> good morning
[07:07] <dpm> hey dholbach
[07:08] <dholbach> bon dia dpm
[07:09] <dpm> hey :)
[07:11] <nigelb> hi dholbach!
[07:12] <nigelb> नमस्ते dholbach :D
[07:12] <nigelb> Hrm, my Hindi is rusty
[07:13] <dholbach> nigelb, you're mean! you know how I can stare at foreign alphabets for hours
[07:13] <nigelb> dholbach: I did not know that!
[07:13] <nigelb> :)
[07:13]  * nigelb hugs dholbach
[07:14] <dholbach> there's something about slowly being able to decipher once you start learning it which is just great - it must be the constant stream of a-ha moments ... if you're doing it right
[07:15] <dholbach> and it a lot of cases it just looks beautiful
[07:15] <nigelb> My learning Hindi as a child was constant stream of ugh moments :)
[07:15] <nigelb> Not great in languages.
[07:16] <dholbach> haha
[07:16] <dholbach> ugh moments
[07:16]  * dholbach hugs nigelb
[07:17]  * nigelb hugs dholbach :)
[07:17] <nigelb> ejat: You're in Malaysia or Indonesia?
[07:17] <ejat> nigelb : Malaysia
[07:17] <nigelb> ejat: KL?
[07:17] <ejat> nigelb : yes
[07:17] <nigelb> \o/
[07:18] <ejat> nigelb : anything that i can help with /
[07:18] <nigelb> ejat: I *may* be visiting in November :) We should meet :)
[07:18] <ejat> nigelb : after UDS ?
[07:18] <nigelb> Yeah
[07:18] <nigelb> I won
[07:18] <nigelb> I won't be at UDS
[07:18] <ejat> vacation or biz trip ?
[07:18] <ejat> owh u wont be at the UDS ?
[07:18] <ejat> owh okie .. then we shall meet after that …
[07:18] <nigelb> I got invited to Mozilla's Asia Camp
[07:19] <ejat> owh okie ..
[07:19] <ejat> :)
[07:19] <nigelb> Well, I won't be at UDS in person, but I will be remote :)
[07:19] <ejat> ill be there too … already got email from gen already …
[07:19] <ejat> nigelb : owh okie
[07:19] <nigelb> ejat: w00t \o/
[07:20] <ejat> :)
[07:23] <doctormo> nigelb: Nor will I, can't be in Florida if I'm to be a dad.
[07:23] <nigelb> doctormo: :)
[07:23] <nigelb> doctormo: when is the big day?
[07:23] <doctormo> nigelb: But I still dearly wish to meet you at an event.
[07:23] <nigelb> doctormo: Yeah, me too!
[07:24] <ejat> doctormo also coming to mozilla asia camp ?
[07:24] <doctormo> Me and the spirit world aren't talking, so they won't tell me when the day is. But wife is full term, so any day between now and two weeks from now.
[07:24] <doctormo> ejat: Unfort' not.
[07:24] <ejat> doctormo : owh okie ..
[07:24] <nigelb> doctormo: Ah, nice!
[07:24] <ejat> baby ubuntu :)
[07:26] <ejat> doctormo : boy or girl ? sorry .. no up2date ..
[07:47] <doctormo> ejat: Unknown, we know it's human.
[07:48] <ejat> doctormo : not doing the screening/checking ?
[07:48] <doctormo> ejat: Why bother?
[07:49]  * ejat just asking … here .. all parent excited to know their baby .. so easier to do the preparation ..
[07:50] <czajkowski> nah I agree with doctormo I'd like it to be a surprise
[07:50] <czajkowski> there are little surprises left in the world knowing the sex of the baby is 1
[07:51] <doctormo> ejat: a) Extra reason to push, b) Wonderful surprise, c) Annoying people who put too much weight on sex as any indicator of anything.
[07:52] <ejat> :)
[07:52] <doctormo> My sister has be a hoot, 'But I won't know if I should buy blue or pink' lol
[07:52] <doctormo> been*
[07:55] <popey> :D
[07:56] <czajkowski> yellow
[07:56] <popey> and white
[07:56] <jussi> yeah, we have had same, everyone wants to know if we know the sex
[07:56] <czajkowski> cant go wrong
[07:56] <jussi> green
[07:56] <jussi> blue
[07:56] <jussi> pink
[07:56] <jussi> red
[07:56] <jussi> etc
[07:56] <popey> we didnt ask for ours
[07:56] <jussi> If we have a boy it can wear pink, same for a girl with blue.
[07:56] <doctormo> We have lots of hand-me-downs anyway, so pink and blue are both available.
[07:56] <jussi> its not like the baby cares.
[07:57] <doctormo> _it's a baby_
[07:57] <jussi> we know, but not telling anyone. (it isnt sure anyway)
[07:57]  * popey has some advice for the new fathers. :D
[07:57] <jussi> doctormo: +++++
[07:57] <jussi> popey: go on!
[07:57] <popey> "There is only one thing worse than a tired parent.
[07:57] <popey> Two tired parents."
[07:57] <jussi> hehe
[07:57] <jussi> so make sure she gets loads of sleep?
[07:57] <doctormo> It's 4am here, I'm formatting for the night shift :-P
[07:57] <jussi> :D
[07:58] <popey> I used to read HHGTTG on my palm pilot whilst rocking Sophie to sleep :D
[07:58] <jussi> doctormo: hehe
[07:58] <popey> read those books over and over
[07:58] <jussi> palm pilot... :D
[07:58] <popey> well, Palm IIIx
[07:59] <jussi> I think I might have to get a tablet/kindle/something...
[07:59] <popey> the palm was good for being in total darkness
[07:59] <popey> had a very dim backlight
[07:59] <doctormo> popey: We just finished BFG, Sophie is a name I would have loved to use, but my sister used it first. drat.
[07:59] <popey> heh
[08:00] <popey> yeah, Sophie is quite popular over here too
[08:00] <czajkowski> doctormo: yeah there is nothing worse than duplicates of names in the one family
[08:00] <czajkowski> my grandfather is John
[08:00] <czajkowski> my uncle is John
[08:00] <czajkowski> their first cousin is John
[08:00] <czajkowski> and there are 2 other 2nd cousins Johns
[08:00] <doctormo> crazy
[08:01] <czajkowski> yup
[08:01] <czajkowski> so no Father Jnr or mother Jnr is wise
[08:01] <doctormo> So instead we have a whiteboard full of names. Trying to convince wife not to pick a silly middle name though.
[08:01] <doctormo> Each of us can veto a name with a cross.
[08:02] <czajkowski> I'm named after my gran
[08:02] <czajkowski> and my sister is named after great gran
[08:02] <czajkowski> all on mums side
[08:02] <czajkowski> and reason we don't have irish names is dad and his family can't pronounce irish names correctly
[08:03] <doctormo> Eoghain is hard to pronounce?
[08:03] <czajkowski> they expect to see Eoin
[08:04] <czajkowski> or Ian
[08:04] <doctormo> I expect to see Owen, but my name's Welsh.
[08:04] <popey> When we had Sam I asked the LUGRadio channel for name suggestions
[08:04] <popey> I wanted him to have a geeky acronym as a name
[08:05] <czajkowski> http://www.babynamesofireland.com/irish-boy-names
[08:05] <czajkowski> http://www.babynamesofireland.com/pages/girl-names-a-c.html
[08:05] <popey> Having P as last initial opens up lots of opportunity for HTTP, FTP, SMTP etc
[08:05] <popey> in the end we went with SMP :D
[08:05] <czajkowski> popey: how does the real popey deal wit you
[08:05] <jussi> czajkowski: irish people spell funny :D
[08:05] <czajkowski> it's a language....
[08:06] <czajkowski> popey: again how does she put up with you :)
[08:06] <czajkowski> http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/321533_284247124926507_119326601418561_1128511_162375572_n.jpg
[08:06] <jussi> czajkowski: hahahah
[08:06] <jussi> thats epic
[08:06] <doctormo> jussi: I know they spell Halloween Samhain ;-)
[08:07] <popey> Sophie's middle name is Niamh which we both like
[08:07] <jussi> I only learnt how to say that during the last few months in ireland
[08:08] <czajkowski> Niamh is a nice name
[08:08] <jussi> I kinda like Siobhan
[08:09] <popey> yeah, but it reminds me of punk
[08:09] <czajkowski> jussi: with a fada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siobh%C3%A1n
[08:09] <AlanBell> Aoife, Catriona, Cormac are our offspring middle names
[08:09] <jussi> czajkowski: yeah, I dunno where that is on my keyboard :D
[08:10] <popey> how on earth do you pronounce Aoife?
[08:10] <popey> "oif"
[08:10] <AlanBell> eefah
[08:10] <jussi> oohhh... It's currently 2011-10-11!
[08:11] <AlanBell> http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[08:12] <AlanBell> á is alt+gr + ; a
[08:14] <czajkowski> ERROR 0x484558: SIGNAL DROPPED
[08:14] <czajkowski> TRANSMISSION IS ENCRYPTED, OUT OF RANGE OR OFFLINE
[08:14] <AlanBell> all to do with the aliens
[08:15] <AlanBell> it is a fantastic thing the advert team have done there
[08:15] <popey> not exactly wide appeal though
[08:16] <popey> fun for a very small number of people who have clue / time / motivation to solve the puzzles
[08:16] <AlanBell> sadly not, but it is the cleverest and most engaging thing I have seen for ages
[08:17] <czajkowski> aye but there was that whole fuss on G+ about who was behind it no disclaimers
[08:17] <popey> some people will bitch and moan no matter what we do
[08:18] <popey> fab and jan are examples of such people
[08:18] <czajkowski> Jan's not the worst
[08:18] <czajkowski> Ive just blocked Fab, his feed was making G+ unbearable
[08:21] <doctormo> What was fab doing? and who is fab anyway
[08:21] <AlanBell> does some podcast thing
[08:22] <AlanBell> got cross with Jono about thisisthecountdown.com on google plus, can't remember why, he wanted to know all about it and whether it was canonical backed or not
[08:22] <AlanBell> in the end when we found out and explained it all it turned out he couldn't care less
[08:23] <czajkowski> he gets cranky about a lot of things not just jono or canonical, mostly canonical
[08:24] <AlanBell> oh, initial point of crankyness was that the page didn't have a button link to identi.ca of all things
[08:25] <AlanBell> which doesn't have buttons
[08:25] <czajkowski> cant remember the last time I used that acc
[08:26] <jussi> there seem to be a lot of people in our community like this, is it something we are doing wrong? or just we attract cranky people?
[08:27] <czajkowski> jussi: he's not in our community though, he's fedora
[08:27] <AlanBell> bit of friendly rivalry from our redhat associates really
[08:28] <jussi> czajkowski: its not just him though is it - I know several like this.
[08:28] <AlanBell> the redhat/fedora bunch are OK really
[08:29] <czajkowski> yup they are
[08:29] <czajkowski> I think there are people in every community who are rather vocal and anti any other other community
[08:29] <czajkowski> the rest of people just want to get along and get FOSS out there
[08:31]  * czajkowski has her redhat interviews next month
[08:42] <doctormo> My dealings with the fedora guys has been extreme. extremly good and extremly bad.
[08:44] <jussi> we have a fedora guy in our work, he is a crazy genius... :D
[08:44] <doctormo> jussi: I think we breed passion for doing the right thing and sticking to your opinions. Imagine, we need a culture that can stand up to the contemporary thinking on software production and say: 'No, that's not the right way' and I think not many people are selective about what they're stubborn about and what they're tribal about.
[08:45] <doctormo> Brother Bear is really an underrated film IMO
[08:45]  * doctormo just watched it for apropos.
[08:46] <czajkowski> meh I blieve in stuff, but not to the point I'm gonna cut my nose off, someone got royually shirty with me recently as I said I use skype and twitter to communicate with people and I'd never give up Skype
[08:47] <doctormo> czajkowski: Aye but conversely when we use tools that mock our culture we have to have good reasons. Skype is a good enough reason IMO.
[08:48] <czajkowski> good enough reason to ?
[08:50] <doctormo> czajkowski: to excuse it's use, and I mean that in the way that we all have exceptions which don't weaken our principles but we have to have them in order to function.
[08:51] <czajkowski> the only principle I have is I want to talk to my mates family and I'm not gonna make them use empathy, identi.ca or diaspora
[08:53] <doctormo> czajkowski: You don't have any? no morals? there is nothing you wouldn't do to another person in order to talk to your mates family? I'd hate to get between you and a BT phone card.
[08:54] <czajkowski> I have morals, just not about what tool I use to communicate to people
[08:55] <doctormo> czajkowski: That's not logical.
[08:55] <czajkowski> fair enough
[08:55] <czajkowski> right better get back to work
[08:57] <doctormo> I'm going to talk to myself for a second, don't no pony take any notice, I just like to get things out.
[08:58] <doctormo> When confronted with cognitive dissonance I think we have two choices, we can remove conflicting ideas or we can merge ideas together causing dialectics.
[09:00] <doctormo> If we support FOSS in our world view prior to using skype, then we must somehow make the idea of supporting foss and the idea of not supporting foss work in our heads.
[09:00] <doctormo> Once we really need to use it.
[09:04] <doctormo> But what if say instead of making a palatable exception of skype, we weaken the idea of foss as a principle. That still allows both ideas to hold in a single world view; of course someone who has weak foss support isn't going to spend much time supporting alternatives, but that's a personal choice once you've got into that world view.
[09:09] <doctormo> I'm sticking to my own view that foss is a good principle to have, worthy of support and that skype is an exception that I will spend some small amount of time of resolving should the opportunity present itself. And in that I have no need to critise people who spend time trying to resolve their inner conflicts or even people who use skype. It's all rather a matter for a persons own thinking.
[09:09] <doctormo> OK, that makes sense. Off to lunch.
[09:12] <duanedesign> hello and have a nice lunch doctormo
[09:29] <jussi> duanedesign: just the man I was looking for.
[09:29] <jussi> duanedesign: pm?
[09:33] <jussi> aww he ran away :(
[09:34] <nigelb> lol
[09:55] <jussi> right, food time.
[10:55] <duanedesign> jussi: helllo
[10:55] <duanedesign> nigelb: helo
[10:55] <duanedesign> hmm, cant seem to get the right number of l's in hello
[11:02] <nigelb> hey duanedesign :)
[11:02] <nigelb> duanedesign: (the trick is to use "hey" or "hi" :P)
[11:04] <Pendulum> dholbach: ping
[11:04] <dholbach> Pendulum, pong
[11:20] <akgraner> Not seeing where my cursor is in the url bar is frustrating...
[11:20] <akgraner> wait - Good Morning is what I meant to type first :-)
[11:20] <jussi> as is the search in unity menu's being rubbish.
[11:23] <nigelb> jussi: wait, you're using unity? O_O
[11:23]  * nigelb asplodes
[11:23] <akgraner> nah you know when you have wiki page and you know you need to add /something b/c you need another page - if you click in the url bar (or whatever the technical name is for it) you don't know where your cursor is - so you just have to start typing and hope it's in the right place
[11:23] <jussi> nigelb: at home I have been trying it out, yes
[11:24] <nigelb> jussi: NICE!
[11:24] <jussi> nigelb: no....
[11:24] <czajkowski> jono: if someone has feedback for you but isn't a member can they mail you feedback
[11:29] <akgraner> jcastro just added the Ubuntu Friendly Session, waiting for Rick to tell me what time slot he wants - that leaves 5 slots open to fill today
[11:30] <akgraner> hopefully we can accomplish that :-)  if hggdh will do a bug filing session that will only leave 4 slots (hggdh - hint hint :-D)
[11:30] <akgraner> bbiab - I'm taxing kids to school this morning...
[13:53] <hggdh> huh?
[14:09] <mhall119> taxing them huh? 'bout time they started paying their fair share
[14:12] <akgraner> mhall119,  probably :-)
[14:15] <hggdh> akgraner: what is it I was volunteered to do?
[14:15] <hggdh> and good morning :-)
[14:16] <akgraner> hggdh, hey! :-) nigelb volunteered you to teach a session on filing bugs
[14:16] <akgraner> since I said unless a little box pops up telling me I need to file a bug - I don't really know how
[14:16] <hggdh> akgraner: nice of nigelb, I have to remember to clobber him next time ;-)
[14:17] <hggdh> akgraner: when?
[14:17] <akgraner> hggdh, next week let me show you timetable
[14:17] <hggdh> next. week. huh.
[14:17] <akgraner> hggdh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable  - if you can't do you know someone who is as awesome as you could do it?
[14:18]  * hggdh does not know awesomeness even when looking at a mirror
[14:18] <akgraner> then you can voluntell them :-) you both can clobber nigelb (and I mean that in the nicest way possible :-D)...
[14:20]  * akgraner hugs nigelb and hopes he knows I am teasing :-)
[14:22] <hggdh> akgraner: OK. I am a sucker, anyways, for a nice request...
[14:23] <hggdh> please set me up for Thursday
[14:23] <akgraner> aww thank you :-)  (I wanted this session for 100% selfish reasons - I need to become a better bug filer)
[14:23] <hggdh> heh
[14:24] <akgraner> What do you want me to call the session - How to file a bug?
[14:24] <akgraner> hggdh, 1400 or 1500 UTC
[14:26] <hggdh> akgraner: 1500, it is never good to start a day with bugs
[14:42] <jcastro> akgraner: woo, got 3 more coming in
[14:45] <akgraner> hggdh, :-)
[14:45] <akgraner> jcastro cool!
[14:47] <AlanBell> akgraner: do you have an accessibility session yet?
[14:47] <akgraner> nope
[14:47] <akgraner> wanna give one
[14:48] <AlanBell> if Pendulum wants to help :)
[14:48] <akgraner> hggdh, up looks like it's going to have to be 1400 on Thursday
[14:48] <akgraner> kirkland snagged the 1500 slot
[14:53] <akgraner> jcastro, I'll work on updating the calendars and getting links to the session leaders names etc
[15:11] <akgraner> jcastro only 5 slots left....
[15:12] <jcastro> :)
[15:12] <jcastro> 2 more coming
[15:12] <akgraner> sweet :-)  happy dance time :-)
[15:12] <jcastro> I'm going to take an early lunch though to avoid the crowd
[15:12] <jcastro> bbia little bit
[15:13] <akgraner> mhall119, czajkowski others who are working on the LD - maybe an intro to the LoCo directory...how teams can make better more efficient use of it or something
[15:13] <czajkowski> akgraner: maybe talk to the developers there, they know more about i
[15:13] <jono> jcastro, ping?
[15:13] <czajkowski> I just file issues with it and add blogs to it
[15:13] <czajkowski> jono: ello me old sod
[15:14] <jono> czajkowski, oi oi savaloy :-)
[15:14] <jono> czajkowski, looking forward to seeing you on Thurs :-)
[15:14] <czajkowski> jono: it will be the highlight of my week, no the month!
[15:14] <jono> :-)
[15:14] <czajkowski> <--- day of writing documents will make you sarcastic :)
[15:14] <akgraner> :-)  that's more than I do....I need to do more with it but somehow I always forget it's there (makes me sad)
[15:14] <jono> lol
[15:14] <czajkowski> I've 2 fucntions specs
[15:14] <czajkowski> wire frames a site
[15:14] <czajkowski> and tested another
[15:14] <czajkowski> FUN day
[15:15] <czajkowski> so need a drink
[15:15] <czajkowski> jono: can a cannical emmployee who's a non member give you feedback ?>
[15:15] <jono> czajkowski, totally
[15:15] <jono> just send me an email :-)
[15:15] <czajkowski> akgraner: I'd suggest cjohnston but he may crack out the whip for teams not using it right, ask mhall119 he'll be gentle and ease them in
[15:16] <czajkowski> grand
[15:16] <czajkowski> message passed on
[15:16] <czajkowski> tick off my to do list
[15:19] <mhall119> akgraner: what day is this?
[15:19] <mhall119> czajkowski: I'm very harsh, jusk ask my kids ;)
[15:19] <czajkowski> mhall119: you're mixing you up with your other half
[15:19] <czajkowski> I'll not cross that lady no way
[15:19] <akgraner> mhall119, we have 5 open slots right now - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Timetable  take your pick from those for next week
[15:20] <czajkowski> pencil you are my new favourite tool but I do wish you'd stop crashing on me on windows
[15:20] <czajkowski> soo handy for wire frames
[15:20] <czajkowski> done and dusted
[15:25] <mhall119> akgraner: I can to 1600 on the 17th, what topic would you like me to discuss?
[15:26] <akgraner> How LoCo teams can make better and more effective and efficient use of loco.ubuntu.com
[15:26] <akgraner> or something like that
[15:27] <akgraner> that's a ridiculously long ass title
[15:27] <mhall119> heh
[15:27] <akgraner> oops I mean just long titel
[15:27] <akgraner> title
[15:27] <akgraner> sorry about that
[15:27] <mhall119> czajkowski: do you think locos need that kind of session?
[15:28] <czajkowski> mhall119: about why they should use it
[15:28] <czajkowski> as not all teams are
[15:28] <czajkowski> A) lanauge seems to be a issue
[15:28] <czajkowski> B) they're getting annoying they use a wiki a website ml and now LD
[15:29] <czajkowski> so we kinda need them to just add their events there
[15:29] <pleia2> the server problems last month made my team members grumpy
[15:29] <czajkowski> and not anwyerhe else
[15:29] <czajkowski> or else pull rss feed to werbsite
[15:29] <mhall119> pleia2: not nearly as grumpy as they made us devs
[15:29] <pleia2> (we were testing out the meeting thing, and the directory was down during our meeting)
[15:29] <czajkowski> pleia2: if it made them grumpy can you image what it did to me
[15:29] <czajkowski> I've to manually add teams blog to it and it kept crashing
[15:30] <pleia2> we're back to wiki for meetings, I don't want to push it :\
[15:30] <mhall119> :(
[15:30] <pleia2> but we do use it for events
[15:31] <mhall119> akgraner: okay, put me down for "Getting the most out of LoCo Teams Portal"
[15:32] <mhall119> I'll who else i can round up to co-lead with me
[15:33] <akgraner> great!  mhall119 thank you!
[15:35] <akgraner> mhall119, on the schedule just let me know who else I need to add to it..
[15:35] <akgraner> thanks again :-)
[15:37] <mhall119> cjohnston: ping ^^ would you be available on the 17th at 12am our time to co-lead a session on using the LTP?
[15:41] <akgraner> mhall119, cjohnston is on a boat :-P
[15:41] <mhall119> oh, right
[15:41] <akgraner> ok so I've been waiting to use that line
[15:41] <mhall119> that might cause some latency issues
[15:41] <czajkowski> mhall119: maybe one of the toics is confirm the name of the system :) so everyone calls it the same thing :p
[15:42] <mhall119> czajkowski: where's the fun in that?
[15:42] <czajkowski> mhall119: I'll stop calling it the LD as will the rest of the community :)
[15:42] <mhall119> czajkowski: we're just going to pick a new name this UDS anway
[15:42] <czajkowski> mhall119: so help me I am gonna throttle you
[15:42] <czajkowski> so call it the LD then for this session
[15:42] <mhall119> I'm voting for "The LoCo Teams Beefy Miracle"
[15:43] <czajkowski> I vote the LD - for Lauras sake
[15:43] <akgraner> mhall119, now that is funny!
[15:44] <akgraner> and if you were in my head right now - I am sure the images for the t-shirts would be disturbing but funny non-the less...
[15:44] <hggdh> akgraner: OK, Thur 1400
[15:44] <czajkowski> ohh my onieirc tee has arrived
[15:45] <czajkowski> cant wait to try it on and then maybe never waear it again
[15:45] <czajkowski> them paws look like they are in the wrong place for a woman
[15:45] <mhall119> akgraner: I get the feeling it would always be disturbing being in your head :P
[15:45] <akgraner> hggdh, thank you again!
[15:46] <akgraner> mhall119, I happen to like my reality :-)  but I know it's not for everyone nor the faint of heart...
[15:54] <czajkowski> jono: is Aq around
[15:54] <jono> czajkowski, he is today but I think he goes home today too
[15:55] <czajkowski> bugger
[15:55] <czajkowski> no drinkies with Aq
[15:55] <czajkowski> :(
[15:55] <czajkowski> jono: give him a hug from me so and tell him how awesome U1 is please
[15:56] <czajkowski> drinkies with Aq is fun
[15:56] <jono> czajkowski, I can do the hugging, but I am sure he would love to hear the kudos from you in a mail
[15:56] <jono> :-)
[15:56] <czajkowski> jono: he hears it all the tie I often tweett my lovoe for U1
[15:56] <czajkowski> I've just backed up my work there
[15:56] <czajkowski> as it's safer there than on local server as stuff went missing last week
[15:56] <czajkowski> and on windows so can use the windows versaion
[15:57] <jono> :-)
[15:57] <czajkowski> jono: you and aq so hug
[15:57] <czajkowski> it's finding ye together and not hugging adn sober is the issue :p
[16:14] <dholbach> alright my friends
[16:14] <dholbach> I call it a day
[16:14] <dholbach> see you all tomorrow
[16:14] <dholbach> HUGS
[16:58] <jcastro> jono: hey
[16:58] <jcastro> if you close your skype
[16:58] <jcastro> where does it go?
[16:58] <jcastro> mine is like, hiding
[16:58] <jcastro> it's not on the launcher, alt-tab, or my panel, I see its notifications though
[17:00] <popey> is it not being whitelisted properly?
[17:06] <dpm> jcastro, that happens to me too, but not always, I think. When it happens I have to end up killing skype to close it
[17:42] <bkerensa> jcastro: Are you about?
[17:42] <jcastro> hi
[17:43] <bkerensa> jcastro: Do you think in the future Canonical might be able to put together geographical mailing lists of Canonical employees for LoCo's ?
[17:43] <jcastro> what do you mean?
[17:43] <bkerensa> I have talked about this with a good handful of Canonical people during PuppetConf... For instance Portland has a lot of Canonical employees and I dont know half of them and therefore I have no way of inviting them to LoCo events
[17:44] <jcastro> ah
[17:44] <AlanBell> really good idea
[17:44] <bkerensa> According to a few people Portland is one of Canonical's largest cities for employees
[17:44] <jcastro> well, they should probably be subscribed to their local loco mailing list
[17:44] <jcastro> yeah, there's quite a few people there
[17:44] <bkerensa> and we have almost zero participation from Canonical on the LoCo level
[17:44] <AlanBell> there is a super secret UK canonical list I happened to see in a mail I was copied on
[17:45] <bkerensa> jcastro: Right now I notice about 3-4 subscribed but I hear there are upwards of 15 people at Canonical living here in Portland :P
[17:47] <jcastro> might want to mail one the 3-4 and ask them to tell the others to join?
[17:48] <bkerensa> Will do
[17:48] <bkerensa> :)
[17:49] <AlanBell> I use the "train to Millbank and stick some paper on the fridge door" method of communicating with the UK office
[17:49] <bkerensa> AlanBell: Well they dont have a office here and they all live out in the woodworks somewhere
[17:49] <bkerensa> :D
[17:50] <AlanBell> yeah, it isn't a method that scales globally
[17:50] <bkerensa> The few Canonical employees I do know locally... I have tried every trick in the book to get them to come to stuff
[17:50] <bkerensa> :D
[17:50] <bkerensa> like telling them we have a keg of premium local beer :)
[17:52] <AlanBell> we have been reasonably successful in tempting them out with beer
[17:52] <pleia2> jono doesn't come to ubuntu california events, but he has hosted a few himself in the past
[17:52] <pleia2> this release is sad though, jono, grantbow and I are all out of town
[17:53] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/happyhour.pdf <- last thing I stuck on the fridge
[17:53] <bkerensa> =o
[17:53] <AlanBell> pleia2: we borrowed jono :)
[17:53] <pleia2> AlanBell: indeed!
[17:53] <pleia2> philly borrowed me, I'm going to the pennsylvania release party
[17:53] <pleia2> I went to dublin's last year
[17:53] <pleia2> I am never home in october
[17:55] <bkerensa> pleia2: Expensive travel :)
[17:56] <pleia2> bkerensa: not really, both trips I'm a tag-along for google events (my fiance was working at the dublin office, now I'm in philly for a conference)
[17:56] <pleia2> so I just pay for my plane ticket
[17:57] <AlanBell> pleia2: set a date yet?
[17:57] <pleia2> AlanBell: spring of 2013 is as much as we've got :)
[17:57] <bkerensa> AlanBell: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bkerensa/6111457584/in/set-72157627463903131/ <-- Our global jam..
[18:09] <pleia2> so what happened with the thisisthecountdown site? it's today, but it's broken...
[18:10] <AlanBell> not broken!
[18:10] <pleia2> oh
[18:10] <AlanBell> well, kind of broken, by the alien transmission
[18:10] <AlanBell> 0x484558 in hex is "HEX" in ascii
[18:11] <AlanBell> which is a clue pointing to the hex codes of the 5 colour bars
[18:12] <AlanBell> 4a2e6d 702f61 65726f<PHONE_NUMBER>72
[18:12] <AlanBell> which is J.mp/aerospacer
[18:12] <jcastro> hey akgraner
[18:12] <jcastro> akgraner: didn't you say Rick was interested in some sessions?
[18:13] <jcastro> we only have 2 left.
[18:13] <pleia2> AlanBell: I see, found the askubuntu link :)
[18:13] <AlanBell> which in turn bounces you to http://soundcloud.com/worldspaceagency/02-traveler/s-lrAhQ which is some mysterious music
[18:13] <jcastro> this whole puzzle thing is brilliant
[18:13] <akgraner> jcastro, yep
[18:13] <akgraner> he hasn't told me what slot he wants
[18:13] <akgraner> he said something about thursday
[18:13] <akgraner> but that's full
[18:14] <jcastro> we can shuffle
[18:14] <akgraner> nods
[18:20] <dpm> jcastro, how do the FAQs for tagged questions in askubuntu exactly work?
[18:21] <jcastro> it's like a mix of votes, views, and # of duplicates a question has
[18:33] <jcastro> dpm: got your mail, I'm in the IRC channel now
[18:33] <dpm> \o/
[18:34] <dpm> jcastro, yeah, we need to start promoting all these public channels. I'm away tomorrow and I don't think it's a good idea to do it on Thursday, so I'll write a blog post on Thursday announcing the ways community can get involved in app development
[18:35]  * jcastro nods
[18:35] <jcastro> maybe someone will respond to my one mail at some point. :)
[18:35] <dpm> I'll write a blog post on *Friday, I meant
[18:36] <dpm> jcastro, yeah, if they don't do it now that I pointed them to it, I'll try to chase the myapps guys to answer that one
[18:36] <jcastro> heh
[18:36] <dpm> :)
[18:37] <dpm> time to call it a day, looking forward to a chilled out bank holiday tomorrow...
[18:37] <jcastro> \o/
[18:37] <dpm> good night everyone!
[18:37] <jcastro> just a few more days!
[18:37] <jcastro> and then we can party!
[18:37] <jcastro> haha no, we start all over.
[18:37] <dpm> \m/
[19:10] <czajkowski> jcastro: :p
[19:10] <czajkowski> party like it's 1999
[19:10] <czajkowski> song is now in my noggin
[19:16] <sense> czajkowski: Maybe a good tip for other LoCo's: we're currently having an intern from a polytechnic university (internships are mandatory part of that education level here) in the translation team and maybe we'll get one for the documentation.
[19:16] <sense> Wait, the apostrophe rules are the other way around in English! 'LoCos'
[19:17] <czajkowski> depends on the course and college in -ie
[19:17] <czajkowski> my uni and sister uni do co-op like an internship
[19:17] <czajkowski> 6-0 months work experience
[19:17] <sense> That sounds a bit like what we're having too. But I thought it could be a nice way for LoCos to have skilled people contributing.
[19:18] <pleia2> in the US you need to pay interns
[19:18] <sense> Really?
[19:18] <pleia2> yes
[19:18] <sense> But it is a school thing!
[19:18] <akgraner> some companies can get away with unpaid interns but it's really frowned upon in the us
[19:18] <pleia2> if people weren't paid they wouldn't be able to do internships (school is very expensive, you need to make money when you're on break)
[19:19] <czajkowski> pleia2: aye same over here
[19:19] <sense> Here the education is state sponsored, so it would be a bit unfair if you would make money with it.
[19:19] <czajkowski> usally about 18K
[19:19] <sense> If you need money, you take a different job.
[19:19] <czajkowski> sense: same in -ie
[19:19] <czajkowski> our registeration though is 1K a year
[19:19] <sense> 1.7k here
[19:19] <czajkowski> and most people don't get a grant to go to college
[19:20] <Pendulum> tbh, in the US the rules are pretty strict so most unpaid internships would be illegal anyway (or are illegal, just not enforced)
[19:20] <sense> Here everyone does.
[19:20] <czajkowski> I was fortunate to live 15 mins from Uni
[19:20] <sense> Pendulum: Even for non-profits?
[19:20] <czajkowski> there is a thing atm that people are looking for free internsuips
[19:20] <sense> czajkowski: We get a free-throughout-the-whole-country public transport thing! Yay for that.
[19:20] <Pendulum> sense: it's complicated. Nonprofits don't usually have interns, just volunteers over here
[19:20] <sense> Hmm
[19:21] <sense> Less professionalised?
[19:21] <Pendulum> Sometimes
[19:21] <czajkowski> http://slaves.ie/
[19:21] <akgraner> depends on the company and how they are incorporated and how the intern is being used etc
[19:21] <mhall119> less lawyer-ized
[19:21] <pleia2> schools sometimes work with non-profits, but it's not an internship, it's volunteerism as part of classwork (and so done during the school term)
[19:21] <czajkowski> one of my mates left uni in boston to come to ireland to study
[19:21] <akgraner> state and federal labor laws in the US are interesting to say the least
[19:21] <sense> That is a nice goal!
[19:21] <czajkowski> it was cheaper for 4 years of living here and flights, and paying fees than to do her degree in USA
[19:21] <czajkowski> she's gone on to do her masters, and phd,
[19:21] <sense> Wait, that was tv.
[19:22] <Pendulum> officially in the US any unpaid intern can't be used in any way that benefits the company, and instead it should be for things that further the education of the intern only
[19:22] <sense> That is weird
[19:22] <czajkowski> and now married an irish guy living in UK, so flip side, she's never going back to usa to her family there
[19:22] <sense> That is a shame. But do non-EU-nationals also get cheap education in Ireland?
[19:22] <sense> We only do that for EUs
[19:22] <sense> English and Germans flock to our country because of that.
[19:23] <sense> GBP 9000 or EUR 1713 per year! Your choice.
[19:23] <sense> Pendulum: But what can an intern do that does not benefit the company he/she works for?
[19:23] <sense> I mean, who came up with that?
[19:24] <czajkowski> sense: aye so say my degree if I were to repeat it cost 5K a year
[19:24] <czajkowski> to an USA it's like 11K-15K
[19:24] <czajkowski> and to an EU it's about 7-8K
[19:24] <Pendulum> sense: that's the point. if you read the US labor law unpaid interns shouldn't be benefitting the company, the company should be benefitting the intern. If it's a paid internship it's different
[19:24] <pleia2> yeah, you can go to a cheap community college for 5K USD /yr
[19:24] <sense> 5k a year is a lot
[19:24] <pleia2> but most are more like 15-30k
[19:25] <czajkowski> yeah I had to repeat a year cost me 5K
[19:25] <czajkowski> set fees for every course across the unis
[19:25] <czajkowski> obviously medicine is about 50K
[19:25] <czajkowski> business would be about 8K
[19:25] <czajkowski> depends on the degree tbh
[19:25] <czajkowski> public admin is about 3.5K
[19:25] <sense> All courses have the same fee for EUs, but non-EUs pay different fees per type.
[19:26] <Pendulum> sense: the laws are set up so that people don't use unpaid interns rather than hiring actual workers (which is turning into a big issue)
[19:26] <czajkowski> history politics and social studies about 3500
[19:28] <sense> Medical stuff is the most expensive here with 32000 EUR a year, but beta is 9400 EUR and divinity only 3900 for non-EUS.
[19:28] <sense> I am pissed, by the way. Sweden somehow managed to lead with 3-2 against us! czajkowski: I heard something about Ireland, Henry and hands. What was that story?
[19:29] <sense> France won unfairly again?
[19:29] <czajkowski> eh ?
[19:29] <sense> football!
[19:29] <czajkowski> oh round ball sport
[19:29] <czajkowski> no idea
[19:29] <sense> You only watch weird ball sport?
[19:29] <czajkowski> I follow the oval shapped ball
[19:29] <sense> Ah
[19:29] <czajkowski> do ye not know me at all  by now
[19:29] <czajkowski> gesh!
[19:29] <Pendulum> sense: if it's not rugby, don't expect czajkowski to know about it
[19:29] <sense> :)
[19:29] <sense> But she is European!
[19:30] <sense> I mean, even the English are like the continentals when it comes to football!
[19:30] <czajkowski> sense: I will smack you
[19:30] <czajkowski> and pleia2 is already due one smack today
[19:30] <pleia2> :D
[19:31] <sense> Maybe I should start running now.
[19:31] <Pendulum> pleia2: what'd you do?
[19:31] <Pendulum> pleia2: btw, I will see you end of this month!
[19:31] <pleia2> Pendulum: it's best if I don't repeat it :) and yay! coming to UDS?
[19:32] <Pendulum> yes!
[19:32] <czajkowski> tis most definately best my dear
[19:32] <pleia2> yay!
[19:32]  * czajkowski peers at pleia2
[19:32] <sense> I won't be there, so I will be spared from the smacking!
[19:32] <sense> You, however, will not.
[20:30] <bkerensa> jcastro: I wish Canonical had big guy Ubuntu shirts and polos made :P
[20:31] <bkerensa> I would buy a polo right now if you had my size ;D
[20:31] <jcastro> yeah, most of mine are "fat man in little coat"
[20:31] <jcastro> european XL is american S
[20:31] <bkerensa> jcastro: You a bigger guy?
[20:31] <bkerensa> :D
[20:31] <jcastro> lately, I was doing ok last year
[20:31] <czajkowski> hate the womens tee
[20:32] <czajkowski> really wanna smack the person who signed off on it
[20:32] <bkerensa> jcastro: jono had ceiz send me a XL ( I wear 2-3X
[20:32] <bkerensa> :(
[20:32] <bkerensa> so yeah the shirt is uber tight :P and I have to wear a button up over it otherwise its unreal :D
[20:33] <jcastro> erward: yo yo
[20:33] <jcastro> oh right, you should be in London
[20:34] <AlanBell> czajkowski: with the gropey paw
[20:34] <czajkowski> jcastro: thought you were coming to london
[20:34] <jcastro> I was then I wasn't
[20:34] <czajkowski> AlanBell: tis a bit **
[20:34] <jcastro> not for this week though
[20:34] <czajkowski> jcastro: poo poo
[20:35] <jcastro> it was for some rackspace thing that got cancelled
[20:36] <bkerensa> :D
[20:36] <bkerensa> rackspace are fun people :P
[20:52] <JanC> bkerensa: well, we have XXL locoteam t-shirts, but they are "European XXL" I suppose  :P
[20:52] <bkerensa> JanC: I imagine European XXL is smaller then the American variant?
[20:52] <bkerensa> :D
[20:52] <JanC> (I doubt anything larger is healthy though...)
[20:53] <bkerensa> JanC: for our global jam I ordered almost every size direct from customink and for our release party we have shirts being printed
[20:53] <JanC> in any case, it might be larger than XL
[20:53] <bkerensa> But I exclude myself from getting shirts or anything that our loco gets
[20:53] <bkerensa> :D
[20:54] <bkerensa> I need to find a better deal on shirt printing because this order that just got placed cost $340
[20:54] <bkerensa> seems a bit steep to me
[20:54] <JanC> depends on the # of t-shirts  ;)
[20:54] <bkerensa> although our sponsor did ask if we needed $500 or $2000
[20:54] <bkerensa> JanC: 15 shirts
[20:54] <JanC> huh
[20:55] <bkerensa> Mind you shipping is free
[20:55] <bkerensa> :P
[20:55] <bkerensa> Right now trying to find a good company in the U.S. to have our banner printed
[20:55] <bkerensa> Ohh
[20:56] <JanC> we sold our locoteam t-shirts for 12 € at FOSDEM, at made a profit (for the locoteam) on that
[20:57] <JanC> and that's a reasonable quality organic & fairtrade t-shirt, not the cheapest child-labor crap
[20:58] <JanC> but 15 t-shirts is not enough to get a good price of course
[20:58] <bkerensa> JanC: Yeah I hear some LoCo's sells stuff.... I really dont wanna go that way... U.S. has to much regulatory issues for organizations
[20:58] <JanC> bkerensa: you should buy 100 t-shirts or so
[20:58]  * bkerensa doesnt wanna handle money on behalf of the LoCo anyways
[20:58] <bkerensa> :P
[20:58] <JanC> bkerensa: hm
[20:59] <JanC> we have a locoteam bank account  ;)
[20:59] <bkerensa> JanC: When we get stuff sponsored I have the vendor send a Purchase Order to whomever sponsors
[20:59] <bkerensa> JanC: Yeah see in the U.S. you have to register with the state and federal government
[20:59] <bkerensa> lots of paperwork
[20:59] <JanC> bkerensa: no local registered non-profit that can handle the financials for you?
[21:00] <bkerensa> JanC: Yeah we have lots I just have to talk to them about it
[21:00]  * AlanBell agrees with bkerensa, easiest to have no money changing hands
[21:00] <bkerensa> JanC: I reached out to one already but they are slow in responses
[21:00] <bkerensa> AlanBell: Indeed
[21:00] <JanC> AlanBell: I disagree  ;)
[21:00] <bkerensa> AlanBell: If or when I'm not team lead it would be up to the LoCo to decide to go that way but I will not go that way
[21:01] <AlanBell> it is great for the teams who can manage it
[21:01] <JanC> ubuntu-be had > 2000 € until we bought the rollups (which we would have been unable to buy otherwise)
[21:03] <JanC> ubuntu-fr has money too
[21:04] <AlanBell> yes
[21:04] <JanC> and I think our rollups look better than Canonical's :P
[21:05] <AlanBell> probably
[21:05] <AlanBell> canonical have got rollups with the circle of friends rotated wrong
[21:05] <JanC> lol
[21:06] <AlanBell> it very specifically says in the toolkit that when you write "ubuntu" vertically on a rollup the circle of friends is *not* rotated
[21:06] <JanC> well, ours have the Ubuntu logo + a bunch of icons below + a question mark, then the icons are explained on our flyers
[21:09] <AlanBell> http://photos.pixoulphotography.com/Events/UDS-Natty/14450330_Xqidv#1072296287_VczRW
[21:09] <AlanBell> ^^ wrong!
[21:10] <JanC> AlanBell: well, Canonical doesn't have to follow the rules in this, legally  ;-)
[21:11] <AlanBell> http://design.canonical.com/brand/4.%20Ubuntu%20brand%20mark%20vertical.pdf
[21:12] <AlanBell> sure, but when they produce explicit guidelines it is funny when they mess up
[21:12] <JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/Rollup2011 --> rollups
[21:13] <JanC> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam/PromotionMaterial/Flyers2011 --> flyers
[21:13] <AlanBell> very nice
[21:14] <JanC> I didn't make them, and I certainly agree they look pretty good  ;)
[21:17] <JanC> anyway, any locoteam can get a reasonable amount of money from things like t-shirt sales if they want, and it's really useful to have
[21:17] <JanC> but sometimes it's legally complicated
[21:18] <JanC> bkerensa: are you really sure you need all that paperwork BTW?
[21:18] <bkerensa> JanC: Yeah... You have to register with the State and Federal Government as a Non-Profit
[21:19] <bkerensa> In order to open a bank account
[21:19] <JanC> bkerensa: but do you need tha tfor everything, or only for company gifts, for example?
[21:19] <bkerensa> and until the IRS grants 501(c)3 status then you have to pay taxes and do reporting
[21:19] <JanC> ah
[21:19] <bkerensa> for everything
[21:19] <bkerensa> until they grant status too your considered a business
[21:19] <JanC> well, we are in grey zone about that  ;-)
[21:20] <bkerensa> and sometimes the IRS apparently takes years to do that
[21:20] <bkerensa> indeed
[21:20] <doctormo> bkerensa: Shouldn't you be going after a 501(c)7?
[21:20] <bkerensa> You europeans get it easy
[21:20] <JanC> bkerensa: actually, things differ a lot inside Europe
[21:20] <bkerensa> doctormo: No idea... I'm not going after anything thats why I think keeping money out of the LoCo is good
[21:21] <JanC> maybe there could be an ubuntu-us non-profit, that handles money for the local teams?
[21:21] <doctormo> bkerensa: The Massachusetts team has money, I think about $20 left, but we used to have $2,000 or so from the sale of case badges and tshirts.
[21:21] <doctormo> bkerensa: Now technically the group didn't have any money, since it was actually the property of members. Which meant we paid tax on it as income.
[21:22] <doctormo> What the 501(c) gives you is organizational status so income can be owned by the incorporated entity. Otherwise it's owned by which ever member owns the sold property.
[21:22] <JanC> that would mean only 1 registered non-profit & related work instead of 52 (or how many states there are now)?
[21:23] <bkerensa> doctormo: http://www.doj.state.or.us/charigroup/howtobe.shtml
[21:23] <doctormo> JanC: 46 states, 4 common wealths and the Dominican Republic ;-)
[21:23] <bkerensa> Just to handle money it would cost the LoCo money
[21:23] <bkerensa> because we would have to file with the state and irs
[21:23] <bkerensa> =/
[21:23] <JanC> doctormo: and the DoC, makes 52 ?
[21:24] <bkerensa> Not sure how much Oregon requires for such registrations but I know bylaws are required among many other things
[21:24] <doctormo> JanC: They're not technically states, they're nations. But *shrug*
[21:25] <bkerensa> doctormo: Oregon - A fee (sometimes as much as $900) must accompany applications for tax-exempt status.
[21:25] <AlanBell> bkerensa: here we can open a bank account as a club or association - a group of friends can do that
[21:26] <bkerensa> yeah see forget that
[21:26] <JanC> doctormo: whatever they are called
[21:26] <doctormo> bkerensa: What about as a non-tax-exempt incorperation?
[21:26] <bkerensa> $900 just for the application and then we have to register with the state as a non-profit corporation and then whatever that 501(c)7 for the IRS
[21:26] <bkerensa> :D
[21:26] <JanC> doctormo: I'm mostly thinking about different locoteams anyway
[21:26] <bkerensa> doctormo: But then we would be conducting business
[21:26] <bkerensa> :D
[21:27] <doctormo> bkerensa: No, you'd be conducting organisational activities. You don't have to be a business to be a corperation.
[21:27] <JanC> AlanBell: sounds more or less like what we have in Belgium
[21:28] <doctormo> I think you have to stand on your head and eat a goat in England :-P
[21:28] <AlanBell> the bunch of friends thing works for stuff like oggcamp or little groups who want to do something
[21:29] <AlanBell> but if it is to be "owned" by a general collective then you can't really do that sensibly
[21:29] <JanC> well, that's mostly a metter of trust, really?
[21:29] <JanC> matter
[21:29] <AlanBell> well kind of
[21:30] <JanC> obviously, legally it might get hairy if one trusted person runs off with the money...
[21:31] <AlanBell> thats why you need a charter and articles of incorporation and such
[21:32] <JanC> we have been thinking about all that, but it's also a lot of work, costs money, and involves legal work & money expenses every year?
[21:32] <doctormo> AlanBell: that's why charters and incorperation exist.
[21:32] <doctormo> JanC: To be fair the legal work isn't much.
[21:32] <JanC> it still has to be done
[21:32] <JanC> and preferably on time  ;)
[21:33] <bkerensa> doctormo: I just checked it would cost $50 to register in Oregon plus we would have to put together bylaws etc etc
[21:33] <doctormo> If it's a 20 page form once per year then only the hardiest of procastinators could fail.
[21:33] <bkerensa> then if we didnt wanna have to pay taxes on any revenue we would have to pay up to $900 for Tax Exempt status
[21:33] <doctormo> bkerensa: You might be able to find a good bylaw template online, that's what lawyers do ;-)
[21:33] <bkerensa> LOL
[21:34] <bkerensa> doctormo: Yeah but adding finance and legal work even if once a year to my already busy load can be to much
[21:34] <bkerensa> :D
[21:34] <doctormo> bkerensa: Is the tax on revenue significant?
[21:34]  * bkerensa is already the person who does everything for the loco :P no shared help with meetings work, events etc
[21:34] <bkerensa> :D
[21:34] <doctormo> Ah well, this is an investment and that's really why we're talking about it.
[21:35]  * bkerensa is still trying to find someone to handle or wiki and minute meetings months later :P
[21:35] <JanC> doctormo: but like I said: why not have a national tax-exempt entity for the whole US?
[21:36] <doctormo> JanC: Then you need per-state dealing, and I'm not sure how national orgs work with groups in each state.
[21:36] <bkerensa> JanC: If there Ubuntu Foundation was not a shell that would be nice
[21:36] <mhall119> there's SPI
[21:36] <bkerensa> then the Ubuntu Foundation could handle all of this stuff on a international level
[21:36] <JanC> the Ubuntu Foundation isn't there for that purpose
[21:37] <bkerensa> doctormo: What do you guys use for your org name in MA?
[21:37] <mhall119> JanC: Software in the Public Interest operates an a non-profit umbrella organization for various FLOSS projects
[21:37] <JanC> the Ubuntu Foundation manages money to keep ubuntu running for a couple of years in case Canonical goes bankrupt or so
[21:38] <JanC> mhall119: yes, that would be one possible organization that could help
[21:39] <mhall119> does the Ubuntu Foundation even take donations?
[21:39] <AlanBell> The Foundation was established on July 1st 2005 with an initial funding commitment of US$10 million, to ensure the continuity of the Ubuntu project and create a legal vehicle that represents the community structures of the project.
[21:39] <mhall119> AlanBell: yeah, but it really hasn't done the latter
[21:40] <AlanBell> so far
[21:40] <mhall119> it's been like a $10m insurance policy for anyone investing in Ubuntu in their infrastructure
[21:40] <JanC> mhall119: something like that  ☺
[21:40] <AlanBell> yes, and that bit should be left well alone
[21:41] <AlanBell> but if the community needs a legal vehicle to represent it's structure . . .
[21:41] <JanC> it can't be a legal vehicle outside the jurisdiction where it's registered anyway?
[21:42] <JanC> (or jurisdictionS)
[21:46] <AlanBell> where is that then?
[21:46] <JanC> no idea ;)
[21:49] <JanC> my guess would be Isle of Man or the UK ?
[21:50] <AlanBell> or south africa, or america somewhere (it is in $)
[21:58] <jcastro> WIN!
[21:58] <jcastro> the guidebook is awesome, and almost done
[22:00] <AlanBell> SIGNAL FOUND. RECONNECTING... http://www.thisisthecountdown.com/
[22:05] <bkerensa> AlanBell: What do you think it is?
[22:10] <AlanBell> a game
[22:20] <mhall119> bkerensa: shuttleworth is going to announce that Ubuntu is switching to Arch
[22:21] <mhall119> and the popey is gonna shut it all down
[22:22]  * mhall119 needs another meme to joke about
[22:27] <jcastro> AlanBell: kudos on the highly detailed analysis on AU
[22:44] <AlanBell> I just started it, and made it a community wiki
[22:44] <AlanBell> the Ubuntu Mono font is on the google font API site already which is pretty cool
[23:02] <nigelb> hggdh: heh, I know you love me too :)
[23:07] <hggdh> nigelb: :-)


[06:33] <alkisg> Good morning
[14:15] <highvoltage> alkisg: great!
[14:32] <vmlintu> good afternoon
[14:32] <rad4Christ> Good morning here :P
[14:33] <vmlintu> highvoltage: have you encountered any nbd-proxy problems?
[14:44] <highvoltage> vmlintu: hey, what happens?
[14:45] <vmlintu> highvoltage: we've trying to figure out this problem with nbd-proxy: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ltsp/+bug/589034
[14:48] <vmlintu> I'm just wondering how many are affected as it seems to be a problem with all our test systems..
[16:22] <dgroos> Good Day!
[16:23] <dgroos> I'd like to double check my UTC conversion abilities...
[16:23] <dgroos> is the Edubuntu meeting in about 2:35 min from now?
[16:24] <mhall119> is it wednesday again already?
[16:25] <dgroos> YES! Yesterday (tuesday) was last student day of the year :), today is grading day, beyond, cleanup and improve...
[16:26] <rad4Christ> Anyone know how to install nVidia restricted drivers on member:a server, so thin clients with nvidia card will use them?
[16:27] <alkisg> dgroos: > Next Edubuntu meeting is on Wednesday, 9 June at 20:00 UTC.
[16:27] <alkisg> $ LANG=C date -u
[16:27] <alkisg> Wed Jun  9 15:27:12 UTC 2010
[16:27] <alkisg> So... in 4.5 hours
[16:51] <dgroos> alkisg: thanks for the command and I see that confirms the info from the TOP of this page: http://www.dxing.com/utcgmt.htm
[16:52] <alkisg> You're welcome. We
[16:53] <alkisg> We've finished teaching here some weeks ago, so I had much time to test fat clients and my "sch-scripts"... everything works great, teacher screen broadcasting is 10 times faster than italc (and much more reliable), client/user autodetection works fine, screen/sound locking... I just wish I had the time to internationalize all that :-/
[16:57] <vmlintu> alkisg: "sch-scripts" sound interesting
[16:57] <alkisg> http://wiki.ubuntu-gr.org/sch-scripts/screenshots
[16:58] <alkisg> italc replacement + wizards for building thin + fat chroots + some other scripts for account management + policy enforment
[16:59] <alkisg> It's working great for our needs, we don't need anything else. But it'd be really useful for others if some parts were generalized and internationalized.
[16:59] <alkisg> E.g. the networking backend which keeps track of all users + ltsp clients...
[17:00] <vmlintu> following what's happening on clients is something we want to keep out of, but broadcasting and locking would be needed
[17:00] <alkisg> (it only needs 1 Mb on each thin client so the minimum requirements are still 64MB RAM, and it offers the teacher a local shell for remote command execution)
[17:01] <alkisg> Well, to run commands on the clients you'd need to keep track of them. I didn't want to install ssh for security reasons (it's less secure than the current reverse connections that we're using)
[17:01] <vmlintu> How are the commands run?
[17:01] <alkisg> The teacher runs them from within the gui
[17:02] <alkisg> Technically, each client connects to the server (and stays connected) and offers it a reverse shell
[17:02] <vmlintu> there has been way too much bad publicity about schools using anything to follow what is happening on users' screens that I don't want to even think about installing something like that..
[17:02] <alkisg> So the server has a root `/bin/sh` on each client and another one for each user
[17:03] <alkisg> Right, it's too much tailored to what we need here.  But that isn't suited for everybody.
[17:03] <alkisg> So a developer would be needed to extract some parts of the code and generalize them.
[17:04] <alkisg> WIth the same network backend another tool would be possible, one that doesn't allow arbitrary commands, but just administrative commands.
[17:04] <vmlintu> starting commands on the clients could be also useful, I think
[17:05] <vmlintu> Are the sources available somewhere?
[17:05] <alkisg> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sch-devs/sch-scripts/trunk/changes
[17:08] <vmlintu> What does the account management part do?
[17:08] <alkisg> E.g. "select 10 users and add them to "class A" group",
[17:09] <alkisg> or "export all users. then format the server and install a newer ubuntu version. then import the users while keeping the same uid/gid and their passwords etc"
[17:09] <vmlintu> it uses /etc/passwd etc?
[17:09] <alkisg> Or "select the users that belong to the classes a, b and c, in order to transfer some files to them
[17:10] <alkisg> For reading it uses some getent functions so reading should also work with ldap. But for writing it uses useradd, so I don't think that would work with ldap.
[17:11] <vmlintu> how does it transfer the files?
[17:11] <alkisg> All files are on the server, so no transferring is necessary
[17:11] <alkisg> Just a cp/chmod
[17:11] <alkisg> *chown
[17:12] <vmlintu> so it just copies them to the home directories of the users?
[17:12] <alkisg> Yup.
[17:13] <alkisg> E.g. when the teacher wants to copy an exersice to the students' documents, he can do it from that menu.
[17:13] <vmlintu> Is there anything for the reverse? For the kids to turn their documents back to teacher
[17:14] <alkisg> No, we didn't think it's necessary as the teacher already can see all the kids files. They're on the server, and the teacher has root access.
[17:15] <vmlintu> oh, ok
[17:15] <alkisg> (and even if he didn't, he'd still be able to see them but not modify them, at least with the default settings)
[17:15] <vmlintu> so no english version yet?
[17:16] <dgroos> (just got back to this--lots of teachers dropping by to bye :)
[17:16] <alkisg> vmlintu: no. It's too tailored to greek needs to just translate it. It should be generalized first, and I'm starting my phd, so I won't have time for it for the next 2 years.
[17:17] <dgroos> So first Congrats alkisg on finishing the year AND congrats are due on these "sch-scripts" -- they're sounding incredible.
[17:17] <alkisg> Maybe 3-4 different packages could be extracted out of it.
[17:17] <vmlintu> alkisg: ok.. I'll have a look at the concepts at least to see how it works
[17:18] <dgroos> I'm also wondering how one would go about translating to English and I could help with Spanish as well.
[17:18] <alkisg> Thanks dgroos... I do think it's a fine work that's why I'm mentioning it, maybe the code will be useful to others, even if I don't have time to generalize it myself now.
[17:19] <alkisg> (btw, I tried on a fat client lab this morning, the clients booted in 13 seconds, openoffice started in 2 seconds, and I was able to broadcast a youtube video with 5 fps with x11vnc - italc can only broadcast about 1 fps)
[17:20] <dgroos> So... is it the docs or the code or what that has to be translated?
[17:21] <alkisg> The user interface (=.glade files mostly), but translating it will only make it usable for similar use cases
[17:21] <alkisg> I.e. where the teacher has root access and sits on the server (which has a gui)
[17:22] <alkisg> So to make it more widely usable, a programmer would be needed, not a translator....
[17:22] <vmlintu> alkisg: are the environments there mostly single lab systems?
[17:22] <alkisg> Yes, all of them
[17:22] <alkisg> Even on schools with 3-4 labs, each lab are independed of the others
[17:23] <vmlintu> sounds like total opposite from what we are running here..
[17:23] <dgroos> "sits on the server" you mean they have the server in the classroom?
[17:24] <alkisg> Yup
[17:24] <vmlintu> are there any computers in regular classrooms?
[17:24] <alkisg> Rarely, other than the computer lab, there is just one computer in one classroom in the whole school
[17:25] <alkisg> (which e.g. gets connected to a projector to show multimedia stuff to kids)
[17:25] <vmlintu> is this just one school or all the schools around there?
[17:25] <alkisg> All of the schools here are like this.
[17:26] <alkisg> We also have some kids that bring their own netbooks in the computer lab. Those can be used as fat clients by just pressing F12. sch-scripts work fine with them too.
[17:26] <alkisg> (f12 => boot from network, that is)
[17:27] <vmlintu> Did you ever see the blog post I made about some schools here? I wonder how different it is over there.. http://www.opinsys.fi/en/mista-on-hyvat-koulu-tehty
[17:27] <dgroos> (Lots of interruptions on my side here, sorry...) What is the server, isn't it too loud?
[17:29] <dgroos> Does the system have to have the server in the class?  What about the cluster approach that Asmo has set up that he shared a few hours ago?
[17:29] <alkisg> dgroos: no, it's just a normal PC. It's cheaper to reuse the server as the teacher seat, and we don't even have computer rooms. All because of lack of money...
[17:29] <alkisg> We don't need cluster as we only have about 12 clients per lab
[17:30] <alkisg> vmlintu: my wife (she's a teacher too) visited finland a couple of years ago. She was impressed, nothing like the education level here.
[17:32] <vmlintu> alkisg: what kind of network the schools have?
[17:32] <dgroos> What would be adequate specs for a server serving 12 clients?  30 clients?   (running thin vs fat clients)?  Any sense?
[17:32] <alkisg> All kinds (e.g. even 10 mbps ancient switches), but in order to use ltsp, we force them to upgrade to gigabit
[17:33] <alkisg> dgroos: any modern pc or laptop would do. E.g. the last one I installed costed 400 €.
[17:36] <vmlintu> alkisg: how many schools are using ltsp now?
[17:36] <vmlintu> over there, I mean
[17:37] <alkisg> I estimate about 50. But I hope it'll quickly grow to e.g. 200 or even 500, now that everything works with just a few clicks...
[17:40] <dgroos> alkisg: (congrats on the making things so efficient for your country--national treasure status yet? ;)
[17:41] <alkisg> Heh, I do work part time for the national support team...
[17:41] <vmlintu> what does national support team do?
[17:42] <vmlintu> (seems like I have a lot of questions today.. ;) )
[17:42] <alkisg> Write guides mostly. It's the first time that we're writing software.
[17:42] <dgroos> alkisg: are you saying that for using 30 fat clients I could run them, HAPPILY, with some basic dual core PC,  6 gigs ram, usual HD, gig NIC?
[17:42] <alkisg> (it also does pilot programs - I got introduced to ltsp with one of those programs)
[17:42] <alkisg> dgroos: more than happily.
[17:43] <alkisg> 3 GB RAM would also suffice.
[17:43] <vmlintu> who runs the team?
[17:44] <dgroos> Why am I wasting electricity on a xeon quad core RAID etc?  I'm going to check into this.  I like minimal that works...
[17:44] <alkisg> dgroos: my laptop is core 2 duo @ 2GHz, 4 Gb RAM, 250 GB disk (slow as the laptops usually have), and the clients boot in 13 seconds.
[17:44] <alkisg> (I'm using it as a roaming server, to demo ltsp)
[17:44] <alkisg> vmlintu: the ministry of education
[17:45] <rad4Christ> Hey guys, I am running an LTSP5 test server, and Firefox/flash is running locally, however, the Firefox window itself looks horrible, like a Windows95 interface.  Hard disk, ram and network speed are all that matter.
[17:47] <vmlintu> based on experiences running hardy fat clients I'd make sure that the server's hard drive is fast and reliable
[17:47] <dgroos> Right--haven't tried it yet, but I hope that my P4, average 2.0 G Hz, 512 meg RAM will be able to succeed with fat clients--they worked just fine with local apps this year.
[17:47] <dgroos> vmlintu: you used nubae's fat clients on hardy?
[17:48] <vmlintu> dgroos: no.. we are using ldap+kerberos+nfs4 backend, so it's built on top of that
[17:48] <alkisg> dgroos: 512 is a little low, it'll be slow. If you could upgrade the ram it'd be much better. Also if they have hard disks you could make a swap partition on them, it'd help.
[17:48] <alkisg> xubuntu or lubuntu would work better for 512Mb, I guess, but I haven't tried it.
[17:49] <alkisg> (gnome would also work of course - it'd just not be as fast)
[17:50] <dgroos> Is your sense that 768--another 256 stick--might be enough for decent performance or I'd need to get it up to a gig, using gnome still?
[17:50] <alkisg> I think 768 would be ok
[17:51] <alkisg> (at least my daughter doesn't complain since I upgraded her ram to 768 :D)
[17:51] <dgroos> These .glade files provide the text on gui pages?
[17:51] <dgroos> alkisg: :)
[17:51] <alkisg> Yeah, and they're edited from an editor with a gui
[17:51] <vmlintu> We decided not to support fat clients with less than 1 gig of memory and it's been mostly enough. Just some applications that behave badly..
[17:52] <dgroos> hmmm... which apps in particular?  any generalizations?
[17:54] <vmlintu> In general applications behave well, but sometimes opening some file in openoffice eats a lot of memory. Firefox can be a memory hog too. And Smartboard software eats some memory too..
[17:55] <dgroos> How many .glade files?  I've already mentioned my Greek language skills :( but I do know how to use google translator and can get started with that.  Are we talking about 5-10 hours? 50-100?
[17:55] <alkisg> dgroos: I think you could get it translated in a couple of hours - the problem is that there's no infrastructure for internationalization, so you have to merge any changes manually
[17:56] <alkisg> I could get some people here that work on it to internationalize it in the summer, it's not a problem
[17:56] <alkisg> The problem is that it's pretty much tailored for greek needs, so I'm not sure if it would be useful to others without modifications
[17:57] <dgroos> vmlintu: you use the linux version of notebook software on a fat client :)  and it's working?  Wow!  I wonder if there are more problems with using Firefox as a fat client than as a local app?
[17:58] <alkisg> I imagine that that best course would be to break it into 3-4 different packages, and then put the greek customizations on another, seperate package that would depend on those packages. And e.g. some finland schools would create another package that would depend on them, etc.
[17:58] <vmlintu> dgroos: yes, we've been running it for almost 2 years now on fat clients. It's working as well as it works on linux. The new 10.2 version should fix most of the problems, I think, but we haven't updated to it yet..
[17:59] <vmlintu> or is it 1.5 years now..
[18:00] <alkisg> Firefox on fat clients is much better than firefox as a localapp
[18:00] <vmlintu> dgroos: I have so little experience with localapps that I cannot say if firefox better or worse on fat client vs. local-app
[18:01] <dgroos> alkisg: I'd like to help.  Gonna be at the meeting today?  I know it is most likely past your bedtime ;)
[18:01] <dgroos> Thanks Gents, this is MOST interesting!
[18:01] <alkisg> Sure, I'll be there unless something comes up. It's at a very good time for me, when the kids go to bed... :)
[18:02] <vmlintu> alkisg: what kind of problems have you had with firefox as localapp?
[18:02] <alkisg> vmlintu: if you open a document, it tries to launch openoffice locally
[18:02] <alkisg> Also it needs some care to solve some theme/localization issues
[18:03] <dgroos> vmlintu: I checked out your blog--you in Finland as well?
[18:04] <vmlintu> dgroos: yep, I'm in Finland
[18:05] <dgroos> I'm a little slow on the uptake... but I get there! :D  Helsinki?
[18:05] <vmlintu> yep, Helsinki
[18:06] <vmlintu> alkisg: have you done something with the remote-apps support?
[18:06] <alkisg> vmlintu: nope, I'm not using localapps. In my opinion if a client is good enough for localapps, then it should be used as a fat client instead.
[18:06] <alkisg> (so no remoteapps too)
[18:08] <dgroos> vmlintu: Ever heard of Tarmo Toikkanen?  He has helped me with some of the work I'm doing with FLE3/4 and wrote a plone content type to make on online "Vee".
[18:09] <dgroos> alkisg: could I use NX client to pretend that I was sitting in front of the server?  Could a couple of teachers do that?
[18:10] <alkisg> Sure
[18:10] <alkisg> neatx-server is also very very easy to setup
[18:10] <vmlintu> dgroos: I've heard the name, but I don't know more about him..
[18:11] <dgroos> alkisg: I like that 'e' word.  I'll check it out.
[18:12] <alkisg> dgroos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/FreeNX#Installing%20the%20FreeNX%20server%20on%20Ubuntu%20Lucid%20%2810.04%29
[18:14] <dgroos> vmlintu: He works with a guy named Teemu Leinonen, as I understand, at the Media Lab Helsinki.  Have you ever seen FLE3 in use?  What's your experience with it?
[18:15] <dgroos> alkisg: thanks!
[18:16] <vmlintu> dgroos: no, I haven't seen FLE3
[18:16] <dgroos> alkisg: hope to talk to you this afternoon/night :) at the meeting.
[18:17] <alkisg> Thanks... /me is now looking to support video broadcasting with vlc transcoding / multicasting...
[18:19] <dgroos> vmlintu: it is this wonderful server-based program that is specially designed to scaffold students discussions in science.  Let me know if you are interested I'd be quite happy to share with you my experience with it.  Gotta go back to grading those papers :)
[18:20] <vmlintu> dgroos: ok, I'll have a look at it
[18:23] <dgroos> FLE3 is getting old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fle3 but the best part of it, the knowledge building, was redeveloped in a wordpress blog which is what I'm currently using: http://fle4.uiah.fi/about/#comment-1312
[18:45] <bencrisford> highvoltage: meeting tonight? :)
[18:50] <highvoltage> bencrisford: yep
[18:51] <bencrisford> :)
[20:01] <bencrisford> highvoltage: i make it meeting time ?
[20:01] <highvoltage> yep
[20:01] <highvoltage> Meeting time!
[20:11] <alkisg> stgraber, what were the problems that made you decide to develop nbd-proxy? Would they also apply to nbd swapping?
[20:21] <stgraber> alkisg: I wanted connections to re-establish in failover environments with two nbd servers
[20:21] <stgraber> alkisg: so in my case, having that for swap was pointless as the swap wouldn't be the same on both server and so it'd make the thin client to kernel panic anyway
[20:21] <alkisg> Ah, got it. So there's no need for it on single server environments. Thank you.
[20:57] <dgroos> Meet room again?
[21:05] <dgroos> research leads me to think it is in #ubuntu-meeting and others are there... how come nothin' seems to be going on there?  Need I knock or something?
[21:10] <alkisg> dgroos: you're an hour late
[21:10] <highvoltage> dgroos: hmm?
[21:10] <alkisg> Uhm, or maybe we did the meeting one hour earlier?!
[21:11] <alkisg> "Next Edubuntu meeting is on Wednesday, 9 June at 20:00 UTC."
[21:11] <highvoltage> nope, we did it usual time :)
[21:11] <highvoltage> !?
[21:11] <alkisg> $ LANG=C date -u
[21:11] <alkisg> Wed Jun  9 20:11:19 UTC 2010
[21:11] <alkisg> Yeah, the meeting is now :)
[21:11] <highvoltage> alkisg: eek, that was a mistake
[21:11] <alkisg> Heh
[21:12] <dgroos> LANG=C date -u says 20:12:35 for me...
[21:12] <alkisg> dgroos: yeah the meeting was at 19:00, the mail had the wrong time :-/
[21:12] <highvoltage> dgroos: sorry about that
[21:13] <alkisg> (dgroos, the LANG=C in front is just so that I don't show greek days to you, you don't actually need it)
[21:13] <dgroos> well, that's one way of keeping troublemakers like me from causing trouble ;)
[21:13] <dgroos> what did you guys talk about, ie topics?
[21:14] <highvoltage> dgroos: debian-edu/edubuntu collaboration, website update, tuxpaint langauge fix in alkisg's ppa...
[21:14] <dgroos> any decisions about those scripts of yours?
[21:15] <highvoltage> dgroos: vikram's docs proposal, and also about how few people have had time for edubuntu recently
[21:15] <highvoltage> dgroos: which ones in particular? live-ltsp?
[21:17] <dgroos> highvoltage: the ones that alkig has made for the Greek schools that sets up a classroom LTSP server 'with just a few clicks' :) and has a different kind of remote desktop program that is much more efficient than iTALC, it appears.
[21:18] <highvoltage> aah, *those* scripts
[21:18] <dgroos> alkisg: I see. That little command, date -u, will save me a lot of hassle as long as I put it into long term storage!
[21:18] <highvoltage> he's been quiet about them recently :)
[21:18] <dgroos> :)
[21:20] <dgroos> As well he should be!  If I created something like that I wouldn't want any of my colleagues to know about them either!
[21:24] <alkisg> highvoltage: nah - as a matter of fact today was the announcment day here in greece
[21:24] <highvoltage> alkisg: ah nice!
[21:25] <alkisg> It's a superset of italc + a lot of wizards for easy thin + fat chroot installation
[21:25] <alkisg> But it's very customized for greek schools, so if it was to form an upstream project, modifications would be needed - not just translations
[21:31] <dgroos> Isn't this the kind of thing we're looking for, something to make edubuntu easy for the masses?  I like the idea of a classroom server for schools that are just starting to implement edubuntu where the teacher or tech person doesn't have access to the server and server room.
[21:32] <dgroos> And, don't need cat 5e or cat 6 in the walls...
[21:33] <alkisg> Sure. What I imagine is an upstream project with the network backend + the main gui, and a lot of subprojects that customize it for specific use cases
[21:35] <dgroos> Something like a modular structure where Sabayon (sbalneav's), ldap integration, etc plug in to it?
[21:36] <dgroos> I like the idea of user-friendly/user-adjustable scripts to set up a server.
[21:38] <alkisg> Right, a plugin idea. Well... I don't use sabayon because I prefer to offer menus for the things that teachers would do by sabayon, and I don't use ldap because having all the users in the ltsp server and editing them with users-admin is easier, but having plugins with those options would be a great idea.
[21:40] <dgroos> do you use webmin?
[21:41] <alkisg> No I've heard bad things about it. And I don't really need it, it's too technical for the teachers here.
[21:41] <vmlintu> alkisg: you don't need the user information outside the ltsp environment?
[21:42] <alkisg> vmlintu: no, any student databases that we have are unrelated to the user accounts
[21:42] <dgroos> I've read some things about it as well, but it has been very useful to me for the last 4 years.  I see from his screen shots that Asmo uses it as well.
[21:43] <alkisg> But if there was a preinstalled ldap server / client model in edubuntu and/or ltsp, we'd surely use it, I don't see any downsides if all the tools support it (e.g. now users-admin doesn't support it so the teachers don't have an easy way to add ldap users)
[21:43] <vmlintu> alkisg: do you have a separate database for moodle etc?
[21:44] <dgroos> alkisg: don't districts use a centralized authentication database?  don't students move between schools within the same region?
[21:44] <alkisg> Schools here don't use moodle. We do have a central moodle installation for all schools, but it isn't used much neither.
[21:45] <alkisg> dgroos: no - you have central authentication between schools?! Wow...
[21:45] <alkisg> The ministry maintains an ldap directory for student emails, but the local schools don't use that information for authentication
[21:47] <vmlintu> What we are now working is something like that - one central server can manage one or multiple ldap databases and when servers are installed in schools, they are connected to use the central server. This gives the servers instant access to user information and there's no need to install ldap tools on the server itself.
[21:47] <vmlintu> it can be used locally also if needed
[21:47] <dgroos> Same here in Minneapolis.  I can be at another school, on a mac or pc, and log in at that school and access my account.
[21:48] <alkisg> dgroos: in either windows or linux? Or is it just linux?
[21:48] <alkisg> (and macos)
[21:49] <vmlintu> dgroos: is it school district / city wide or something bigger?
[21:49] <alkisg> And how do you access your files? With nfs + kerberos?
[21:49] <vmlintu> alkisg: we have kerberos+nfs4+autofs+ldap to mount the home directories
[21:50] <dgroos> Of the few thousands of computers in Minneapolis, I'm the only one running Linux (plus the 2 other classrooms I'm supporting.
[21:50] <dgroos> *Minneapolis Public Schools
[21:51] <alkisg> vmlintu: what's the lowest possible network link between where a user logs in and where his files are? E.g. if he logs on in a different school, does he access his files over an adsl line?
[21:51] <alkisg> dgroos: how do you share your home dirs then? Active directory over vlans?
[21:52] <dgroos> I do want to be able to authenticate to the LDAP next year on my thin client network, but have student accounts on my server. Though, it might be cool to integrate with the rest of the district and have student folders on the district server mount in linux.
[21:53] <vmlintu> alkisg: adsl speeds don't really work, but luckily most of the connections are at least 100Mbps
[21:53] <vmlintu> alkisg: it all depends on the number of users using the link, though. 4/4Mbps has been used succesfully
[21:53] <alkisg> vmlintu: ah, good. That won't work here for some years though :-/
[21:54] <vmlintu> alkisg: we do provide web access to home directories, though, so that can be used in those cases
[21:55] <alkisg> Very nice. I do hope we get all those sometime in the future here as well.
[21:55] <dgroos> (Note to self--check about my computers mounting student home folders located on district servers...)
[21:56] <dgroos> vmlintu: web access to home folders?  you mean a student can authenticate and browse and open there files over the web?
[21:56] <dgroos> *those
[21:56] <vmlintu> dgroos: yep
[21:57] <dgroos> Cool.
[21:59] <vmlintu> alkisg: this is our future user management tool: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/
[22:00] <alkisg> vmlintu: cool, it looks very professional. Do you have any thoughts about providing a wizard-driven initial ldap database setup?
[22:01] <vmlintu> http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-tools/ ;)
[22:01] <vmlintu> the goal is to package this: http://wiki.github.com/opinsys/puavo-users/database-setup
[22:01]  * alkisg is looking forward to using all those when they're ready
[22:02] <vmlintu> basically the script just needs basic information for ldap+kerberos and it configures openldap+mit kerberos on the server
[22:02] <alkisg> I've read that database setup page. I once made a script to automate somthing similar, and I think sbalneav has made an ldap database installation .deb package
[22:04] <vmlintu> the puavo-tools script differs from many others so that it can actually configure openldap to run multiple databases that do not share data
[22:06] <dgroos> Wish I spoka dat talk.
[22:07] <vmlintu> Basically it means that one huge server could serve the whole world and every school district would still have their own database and kerberos realm ;)
[22:08] <dgroos> I think I kinda got that! :)  Google translate couldn't have done that!
[22:09] <dgroos> It has been a while since I've been chatting here, nice to get back in touch.  Summers are good for teachers (make teaching possible?)  Have a good afternoon/evening/night/morning all.
[22:09] <vmlintu> The ministry of education in Greece could run one central setup where every city would have its own database. Every city could use their own data to authenticate users without the need of having their own user management tools.
[22:11] <vmlintu> (My uses for it are a bit more modest, but never hurts to think big.. ;) )