[04:12] <mfisch> where do I find the build logs for a given package?  I'm trying to figure out why libseccomp wasn't built for armhf
[04:12] <mfisch> it's not on the ftbfs page
[04:14] <mfisch> ah, looks like for precise it only made it in as amd64 and i386
[04:15] <mfisch> actually this may not exist for armhf at all
[04:51] <micahg> mfisch: check the debian/control file
[04:53] <micahg> mfisch: architectures are listed on teh build page as well: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libseccomp/1.0.1-1
[07:34] <gotwig> hey, can you tell me where I can find the relevant po strings , where "unity" is part of for the package jockey-gtk? I dont find it when I do apt-get source jockey-gtk from ubuntu 12.04. But I find it here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity
[07:36] <gotwig> I want to fix bug #1032534
[07:41] <gotwig> morning, guys..
[07:53] <gotwig> hey, can you tell me where I can find the relevant po strings , where "unity" is part of for the package jockey-gtk? I dont find it when I do apt-get source jockey-gtk from ubuntu 12.04. But I find it here: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity I want to fix bug #1032534
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning
[11:03] <Rhonda> Hmm, why does libpulse0 have an epoche in ubuntu but not in Debian?   :/
[11:04] <Rhonda> Hmm, is Luke Yelavich around? :)
[11:04] <tumbleweed> some mistakes stick with us forever...
[11:04] <Rhonda> Yes, but maybe the Debian people could be convinced to add it too.
[11:05] <tumbleweed> Rhonda: he's TheMuso on IRC, don't see him around
[11:05] <persia> He seems away now (usually is TheMuso)
[11:05] <Rhonda> It's causing third-party packages to pick it up and thus make them non-usable for Debian  (read: steam)
[11:05] <Rhonda> I wonder if he tried to contact the pulseaudio maintainers of Debian for that.
[11:06] <Rhonda> And … I wonder if the people caring for libjpeg-turbo are willing to get that package into Debian, too.  :)
[11:07] <Rhonda> I wonder if I edit the meta data of the steam package to drop the epoch - is the epoch also somewhere within the library too, or should that actually work?
[11:07] <persia> I'd be careful about asserting that folk care long-term about specific packages in Ubuntu: while there are exceptions, a lot of the not-in-Debian stuff tends to bitrot if not gardened.
[11:08] <tumbleweed> libjpeg-turbo is fairly important, though
[11:08] <persia> Shouldn't that only affect packaging stuff (dpkg, shlibs, etc.)?
[11:08] <Rhonda> persia: libjpeg-turbo is maintained by "ubuntu core developers" - so I would assume that there is some longtime interest in it, not?
[11:08] <Rhonda> Or do I read too much into that role? ;)
[11:08] <Zhenech> Rhonda, epochs should not be anywhere but debian metadata, so should work
[11:08] <tumbleweed> the Maintainer field means almost nothing in Ubuntu
[11:09]  * Rhonda cries on tumbleweed's shoulder :)
[11:09] <tumbleweed> Rhonda: it has advantages, too :)
[11:09] <tumbleweed> but on the whole, it means ubuntu-only packages get neglected
[11:09] <persia> tumbleweed: Sure, but I don't see lots of consistency in uploaders for the past year :)
[11:09] <Rhonda> even core team ones?
[11:10] <persia> Rhonda: core team stuff gets neglected *even more* than other stuff.
[11:10] <Rhonda> Can someone check the reverse depends of libjpeg-turbo8 please?  :)
[11:10] <tumbleweed> yes. things get cared about if they get used a lot / need to be cared about
[11:10] <Rhonda> persia: Don't burst my bubbles!
[11:10] <persia> *but* stuff that's core to Ubuntu (all flavours) is almost never neglected.
[11:11] <persia> We've had a number of cases where some team asserted control over a package and it became absolutely useless until it could be pried away from them again.
[11:11] <persia> As a result, we're fairly leery of that class of assertion.
[11:12] <persia> libjpeg-turbo8 rdepends are all also provided by the libjpeg-turbo source (I haven't checked recursively)
[11:14] <Rhonda> But libjpeg-turbo is neither in Debian. :)
[11:14] <persia> Rhonda: You could upload it ...
[11:14] <Rhonda> I don't even know what that is.  :)
[11:15] <Rhonda> And don't put another load onto my shoulder.  :/
[11:16] <persia> dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/libj/libjpeg-turbo/libjpeg-turbo_1.2.1-0ubuntu2.dsc
[11:16] <persia> Heh, yeah, that's the problem with maintainers: one has to be confident of being a maintainer to upload :)
[11:16] <nigelb> Rhonda: Excuses like "I don't know what that is" tend to not work with persia.
[11:16] <nigelb> ;)
[11:17] <persia> Anyway, tgall_foo might be willing to be sponsored, if someone wanted to hunt him down (he doesn't hang out in this channel)
[11:17] <Rhonda> nigelb: Does excuses like "I'll do it if you care for my games in Debian for the time being, in exchange" work with persia?
[11:18] <persia> Rhonda: You know me better than that! :)
[11:18] <nigelb> Also, no.
[11:18] <nigelb> hahaha, persia answerd that better :P
[11:19] <Rhonda> persia: But we need something for your DM application!
[11:19] <Rhonda> You know you want to do it!
[11:19] <nigelb> Wait, persia isn't a DD?
[11:19] <nigelb> I'm surprised. For once.
[11:19] <persia> DM  Why would I want to be a DM?
[11:19] <persia> nigelb: There were some scheduling issues
[11:20] <Rhonda> Like, it would involve doing stuff?  *nudgenudge*
[11:20] <Rhonda> (sorry, that was low, my bad)
[11:20] <persia> Becoming a DM would be more work at this point than becoming a DD, but yeah, I should hunt down that file that got lost.
[11:22] <persia> nigelb: And as further background, Debian has this strange requirement that one use email as more than a write-only-medium, which requirement I failed to meet for about 5 years: don't think that my lack of being a DD has *any* relation at all to the nature of the NM process or it being difficult or anything.
[11:23] <nigelb> persia: I was under no such impression.
[11:58] <gotwig> where can I find the relevant po files (for the different languages) for jockey-gtk?
[11:59] <gotwig> the strings for unity are missing: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/+source/jockey/+pots/jockey/de/+translate?batch=10&show=all&search=unity <<< these strings, when you do apt-get source jockey-gtk from Ubuntu 12.04
[12:52] <gotwig> come on :D no packagers here?
[13:20] <persia> gotwig: Rather, nobody has a good answer to your question (or they likely would have answered from the backscroll).  You might try a local build without binary-mangler, and see if that gets you strings, but it could as easily be an LP bug.
[13:21] <gotwig> persia: maybe the po files get created at build?
[13:22] <persia> Possibly.  I have no idea: I haven't tried the build.
[15:01] <mfisch> micahg: thanks, I never even thought to check control because I was building something on armhf and didn't expect it to ask for something not packaged
[15:04] <persia> mfisch: Rather, not instructed to be built: maybe it has a known failure, or maybe someone just forgot.  Try changing control locally, and running an armhf build.  If it works (both builds and can be used by client packages), it's worth a bug asking for armhf supoort (ideally with your debian/control patch and a test report)
[15:04] <mfisch> I found out this morning that I was missing a patch to remove a required lib and so life is good now or will be as soon as i get coffee
[15:54] <micahg> mfisch: there was also a bug in the changelog associated with the x86 only change
[15:54] <mfisch> micahg: turns out that it shouldn't be in the makefile, the patched tree works great
[16:50] <alo21> hi. I am trying to apply a patch with quilt, but it tells me that a patch can't be applied
[16:51] <alo21> this is the patch: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452731/
[16:52] <alo21> this is the makefile: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452738/
[16:53] <alo21> As I noticed, the raw does not match. What should I do?
[16:54] <micahg> alo21: looks like it's been applied already or applied upstream
[16:54] <Zhenech> well, ther eis no test target in the makefile, so why are you trying to remove it?
[16:56] <alo21> micahg, If I download a source from debian with pull-debian-source, are all the patches apply automatically?
[16:56] <micahg> depends if it's source format 3.0 or not
[16:57] <micahg> check quilt applied
[16:59] <alo21> yes. the patch has been applied yet.... how can I build a package running 'merge-buildpackage', without get the error that a patch is just applied?
[17:06] <alo21> micahg, did you read?
[17:07] <micahg> huh?  if it's been applied you shouldn't get an error
[17:08] <alo21> micahg, here is the error that I got: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1452784/
[17:10] <micahg> yeah, you can't have fuzz with source format 3.0 packages
[17:10] <micahg> run this on the troublesome patch: quilt refresh --diffstat --no-timestamps
[17:11] <micahg> I forget the command to do it to all patches
[17:11] <alo21> I got: Nothing in patch 01_deactivate-nosetests.patch
[18:07] <alo21> I am merging a package from 0.2 (in ubuntu), to 0.3 (in debian), but a new version (0.4) comes out in upstream, but not in debian. Can I merge directly merge to the new upstream, or not?
[18:09] <xnox> alo21: whichever =) but e.g. 0.4 can go into debian experimental.
[18:10] <alo21> xnox, but isn't in debian experimental yet
[18:10] <alo21> it isn't*
[18:11] <xnox> alo21: sure, but it doesn't mean that you can't get it sponsored there =)
[18:11] <alo21> xnox, fine
[18:12] <xnox> alo21: as I said: merging 0.3 into ubuntu, publishing 0.4 into experimental, publishing 0.4 into ubuntu. Are all valid paths here and will be beneficial.
[18:12] <xnox> alo21: depends on what you really want and/or have time to do.
[18:14] <alo21> xnox, I think would be better if I push 0.4 in experimental, but I haven't upload right, and I can't package for debian
[18:14] <xnox> alo21: then you what to do next ;-)
[18:15] <alo21> xnox, have I to fill in a bug report to require sponsor?
[18:35] <xnox> alo21: debdiff+bug or branch+merge-proposal
[18:36] <alo21> xnox, as I said, I can't create the .deb package
[18:36] <xnox> alo21: oh you can't package at all? then bug to request a version upgrade / merge.
[18:36] <xnox> alo21: what package is it for?
[18:37] <alo21> xnox,  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gbirthday/+bug/1020783
[18:38] <alo21> the last post, suggests to upgrade into version 0.6.7


[01:52] <Mase> hi guys, i noticed that when you install a new ubuntu kernel it automatically runs update-initramfs however when i build my own packages with make-kpkg it does not do this , even with --initrd
[01:52] <Mase> how can i get my packages to run update-initramfs on installation?
[02:00] <JanC> I think it's implemented as an dpkg trigger ?
[02:01] <JanC> or maybe in a post-install script
[02:03] <Womble2> JanC: I believe it's done by the postinst (it is in Debian).
[02:04] <Womble2> Mase: man kernel-img.conf
[02:04] <JanC> hm, it really should be dpkg trigger IMHO (as other packages need update-initramfs too), but it's possible  ;)
[02:04] <Mase> ok will check it out.
[02:10] <Mase> Womble2, JanC i don't have my build box accessable right now, would it be possible to give you a buzz if i run into issues with either approach ?
[02:11] <JanC> I'm not an expert on this, but you can always ask questions in the channel here
[02:12] <JanC> if you hang around, maybe somebody can give a more definite answer too
[02:14] <Mase> i've been trying to find the answer for about a week now, google, kernel mailing lists and asking in this channel a couple of times a day. You guys/girls have been the only ones who have been able to point me in the right direction
[02:15] <JanC> Mase: maybe have a look at the source of the official Ubuntu kernel packages
[02:15] <Womble2> Mase: make-kpkg is being deprecated by the Debian kernel team and probably Ubuntu too. You may find that 'make deb-pkg' works better for you.
[02:16] <Mase> ahh ok. i didn't know that
[02:16] <Mase> i hadn't found any docs which mentioned deb-pkg
[02:16] <Mase> but i will look at it.
[02:16] <Womble2> It's part of the upstream build system
[02:16] <JanC> I think make-kpkg isn't even included in karmic anymore
[02:17] <Mase> i see. I was / am building a Xen 2.6.31 domU kernel for hardy
[02:17] <Mase> it seems that the newer kernels don't always play well with the older build tools
[02:17] <JanC> Mase: there is some stuff about building kernels on the wiki IIRC
[02:17] <Mase> make-kpkg in hardy seems to treat Xen as as an arch. I got the kernel and modules built and working
[02:18] <Mase> just didn't get the initrd to be make automatically
[02:18] <Mase> but it seems i may have been heading down the wrong path
[02:31] <Darxus> bumping the abi from 2.6.31-11.38 to 2.6.31-12.38 didn't stop abi from complaining.  I tried "touch debian.master/rules.d/control.stub.in" as (sort of) mentioned in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KernelTeam/KernelMaintenance  - will that satisfy abi?
[02:32] <Darxus> Is there any more accurate documentation on building a kernel package for the archives than that page, for example, mentioning debian.master?
[02:46] <Darxus> I'm asking because I'm looking into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/424927
[02:46] <ubot3> Malone bug 424927 in linux "[needs-packaging] include Brain fuck Scheduler" [Wishlist,Confirmed]
[04:36] <tj83_> apw, still working?
[04:38] <tj83_> apw if you recall our earlier discussion today about the RTL8187B wireless bug I have located it in LP. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/254438  I have commented on the subject, and also sent mail to that potential contact for working drivers. I will follow up further with if/when I receive a reply.
[04:38] <ubot3> Malone bug 254438 in linux "realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work on toshiba satellite A210-15J" [Medium,Triaged]
[05:28] <Darxus> II: Checking modules for generic...previous or current modules file missing!
[11:21]  * apw and smb are doing a quick review of the milestoned kernel bugs for karmic: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
[11:22] <apw> bug #290153
[11:22] <ubot3> Malone bug 290153 in linux "Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290153
[11:23] <apw> this has been improving over the 2.6.31 cycle, with errors occuring, but now booting.  requested testing with karmic final kernels
[11:25] <apw> bug #406466
[11:25] <ubot3> Malone bug 406466 in linux "2.6.31 - Can't see files in CIFS-mounted directories" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/406466
[11:25] <apw> some success reported, requesting confirmation and debug as indicated by chuck
[11:26] <apw> bug #407793
[11:26] <ubot3> Malone bug 407793 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "[i865g][Karmic Alpha 3] X corruption and freeze when clicking "Other" on GDM login screen" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407793
[11:26] <apw> suggested fixed by an upstream patch which is now in the uploaded kernels, requested testing there
[11:27] <apw> bug #435917
[11:27] <ubot3> Malone bug 435917 in linux "BUG: scheduling while atomic: swapper - using ppp [kernel 2.6.31-10.35-generic]" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/435917
[11:27] <apw> ppp issue, with so many tty layer fixed arriving in <IP_ADDRESS> testing on latest karmic requested
[11:28] <apw> bug #100110
[11:28] <ubot3> Malone bug 100110 in acpi "18 seconds ACPI delay while booting due to DSDT" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/100110
[11:28] <apw> broken DSDT on specific laptop, override nolonger recommended/supported, will produce a test kernel which attempts to detect and sort out these errant sleeps from the kernel side
[11:29] <apw> bug#392692
[11:29] <apw> bug #392692
[11:29] <ubot3> Malone bug 392692 in linux "hibernate, suspend, monitor switch keys don't work in Panasonic CF-Y7 laptop" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/392692
[11:30] <apw> panasonic laptop specific issue, hotkeys not working.   need to confirm the driver is even being loaded, and which specific laptop this is from the ACPI info, requested
[11:30] <apw> bug #395358
[11:30] <ubot3> Malone bug 395358 in linux "thinkpad fn+f5, Asus fn+f2: regression, rfkill toggling in the kernel instead of userspace" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/395358
[11:31] <apw> looks like it may be related to the next bug
[11:31] <apw> bug #397698
[11:31] <ubot3> Malone bug 397698 in linux "isAnyWirelessPoweredOn in state-funcs always returns 1 in karmic" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397698
[11:31] <apw> seems that there is a proposed patch for this, which is claimed migth fix the preceeding bug also.  need to get a test version of this acpi-support package built for testing
[11:32] <apw> bug #404064
[11:32] <ubot3> Malone bug 404064 in linux "KMS error message while intializing modesetting (during boot and resume) -  render error detected, EIR: 0x00000010 [i915]" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/404064
[11:33] <apw> seems to be a benign message, functionality appears unaffected.  likely we can ignore this error
[11:36] <apw> bug #430694
[11:36] <ubot3> Malone bug 430694 in linux "agpgart-intel not loaded before drm sometimes, causes KMS to fail" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430694
[11:36] <apw> new module dependancy is needed, potential fix uploaded
[11:37] <apw> bug #439648
[11:37] <ubot3> Malone bug 439648 in linux "usb_id errors: "unable to access..."" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439648
[11:38] <apw> again these appear to be benign, requested confirmation of funcionality
[11:38] <apw> bug #440470
[11:38] <ubot3> Malone bug 440470 in linux "[ubuntu-boot-experience] nvidia boot messages" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440470
[11:38] <apw> these seem to be benign messages, suggested alternative options
[11:55] <apw> Keybuk, bugs about boot messages which are rc script related ... is there a place to assign those to
[11:56] <apw> in this case we only have approximate contents so it is hard to tie them to a specific rc script
[11:56] <apw> sysv-rcinit perhaps ?
[12:09] <tj83> apw, you've been working hard this am.
[12:11] <tj83> bug #254438
[12:11] <ubot3> Malone bug 254438 in linux "realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work on toshiba satellite A210-15J" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254438
[12:12] <tj83> very old bug, have nothing as of yet to work with. trying to get apw the pieces.
[12:13] <tj83> apw can we somehow modify the title of the bug? it does not really apply to any one model or brand of computer or even computers specifically as there are usb adapters galore with the chip also.
[12:55] <smb> tj83, Reading through that bug, I wonder whether it possibly makes sense to close this one sort of fixed (as the card seems at least detected) and open a new one to the fact that performance/stability is poor...
[13:08] <tj83_> apw, smb rtg  is it possible to request a bug title to be modified?
[13:09] <apw> bug titles are mutable
[13:09] <smb> tj83_, You can modify a bug title but it won't help cleaning up comments in the report that now might be irrelevant
[13:10] <tj83_> well, i am not the creator of this bug, but i think the title should be modified for 254438
[13:10] <rtg> tj83_, yes, but I always have to fumble around before I can figure out how to do it.
[13:11] <tj83_> particularly to remove the specific laptop model and to include that it applies to 8.10, 9.04, and 9.10
[13:11] <apw> bug #254438
[13:11] <ubot3> apw: Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: The read operation timed out
[13:11]  * apw slaps ubot3
[13:11] <ogra> :P
[13:11] <apw> bug #254438
[13:11] <tj83_> he he
[13:11] <tj83_> "
[13:11] <tj83_> realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work on toshiba satellite A210-15J"
[13:12] <tj83_> the title is just horrible. it does infact work, but performance is not acceptable and it covers thousands of laptops and usb adapters across all ubuntu versions after 8.04
[13:12] <apw> bug #254438
[13:12] <ubot3> Malone bug 254438 in linux "realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work on toshiba satellite A210-15J" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254438
[13:13] <apw> bug #254438
[13:13]  * apw gets out a larger hammer and smacks ubot3 on the toe
[13:13] <smb> bug #254438
[13:13] <ubot3> Malone bug 254438 in linux "realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work on toshiba satellite A210-15J" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254438
[13:14] <apw> cheek, now you cache out of date data do you ubot3 ... you trying to mess with m y head?
[13:14] <smb> Hm i changed that
[13:15] <tj83_> better, TY
[13:15] <smb> Likely the description should be modified as well
[13:15] <smb> To get a better fitting description there as well
[13:16] <tj83_> smb, yea its all messed up, How can i change?
[13:17] <smb> tj83_, Are you able to change the description? IOW do you see some yellow circle to the right of bug description?
[13:17] <apw> with the pencil inside it, yep thats meant to be a pencil
[13:17] <smb> Somewhere below "does thisbug affect you"
[13:17] <tj83_> smb perfect thanks
[13:18] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=datecreated&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.status_upstream-empty-mar
[13:18] <apw> ker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=regression-potential&field.tags_combinator=ANY&search=Search
[13:18] <apw> yay for launchpad
[13:21]  * apw and smb are reviewing the primary linux regression-proposed list
[13:22] <smb> bug 271258
[13:22] <ubot3> Malone bug 271258 in linux "Acer Orbicam gspca's module fails" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271258
[13:22]  * tj83_ is 26 years young today. woot
[13:22] <apw> wipper snapper :)
[13:23] <rtg> apw, thats my line
[13:24] <apw> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/info/kernel-version-map.html
[13:24]  * tj83_ doesnt get to really see the family on the b-day due to work and school.... gee
[13:28] <smb> So basically this also looks like something we should ask to get re-tested with 12-39++
[13:30] <apw> as they are seeing delays on boot, lets get a bootchard
[13:31] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/290153
[13:31] <ubot3> smb: Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: The read operation timed out
[13:31] <smb> That one we already had on the other review
[13:31] <smb> Fails to find boot device in Intel D945Gnt
[13:31] <apw> bug #396286
[13:31] <ubot3> Malone bug 396286 in linux "2.6.31-generic: kernel panic near the end of initramfs" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/396286
[13:32] <smb> Also from previous review
[13:32] <smb> We asked to try with latest kernel
[13:32] <smb> Oops srry
[13:32] <smb> yeah the other one
[13:32] <smb> Need him to check with the latest
[13:33] <smb> patch to see whether I can get more info on the files affected
[13:33] <apw> as yes the nasty 'b4 appears in your -1 pointer'
[13:33] <smb> yep
[13:33] <apw> bug #397906
[13:33] <ubot3> Malone bug 397906 in linux "blank cd-r not detected [Karmic]" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/397906
[13:34] <soren> apw: Is anything in particular holding up bug #416325?
[13:34] <ubot3> Malone bug 416325 in linux "Please reenable CONFIG_GFS2_FS_LOCKING_DLM" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/416325
[13:35] <smb> soren, only piles of stacking work interrupts. :-P
[13:36] <apw> soren, only it not being on the regessions list and focus being there, is that a regression from jaunty, it likley is and should be o the list
[13:38] <smb> So about that cd-r not detected thing. The last comment is from August, so we should get more recent feedback
[13:38] <apw> yep, asking for the latest kernel to be tested
[13:38] <apw> bug #400484
[13:38] <ubot3> Malone bug 400484 in linux "unable to show the contents of my kernel keyring" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/400484
[13:42] <rtg> soren, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux/+bug/416325/comments/1
[13:42] <ubot3> Malone bug 416325 in linux "Please reenable CONFIG_GFS2_FS_LOCKING_DLM" [Low,In progress]
[13:42] <smb> Hm, seems we are not sure whether this is really a bug or only a behaviour change which was intended
[13:42] <smb> We ask for clarification in the bug
[13:55] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/402982
[13:55] <ubot3> Malone bug 402982 in linux "Kernel mode switching causes frequent screen flickering with intel video card (not present with the same packages and kernel 2.6.30)" [High,In progress]
[13:56] <smb> apw Seems your last ppa had good results
[13:56] <smb> But as a lot of radeon patches went into the kernel we need to check the latest one to see
[13:57] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/414560
[13:57] <ubot3> Malone bug 414560 in linux "ath9k disassociates/reassociates a lot" [Unknown,Confirmed]
[13:58] <soren> rtg: Awesome, thank you.
[14:00] <smb> As some success was claimed with some backports modules, need to check the latest kernel and lbm
[14:01] <apw> bug #430011
[14:01] <ubot3> Malone bug 430011 in linux "Oops randomly with Huawei E220 3G dongle (regression)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430011
[14:03] <smb> usb-serial has gone through huge changes in stable.
[14:03] <smb> So retest is essential
[14:05] <apw> bug #430809
[14:05] <ubot3> Malone bug 430809 in linux "[Dell Latitude D430, iwl3945] Wireless can't be activated after disabling kill switch" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430809
[14:05] <apw> this bug is in active development, a patch appears to be being testing and working for testers
[14:07] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/432959
[14:07] <ubot3> Malone bug 432959 in linux "empty barriers not supported by kvm virtio_blk - "end_request: I/O error, dev vda, sector 0" log spam" [High,Triaged]
[14:15] <Username> hello can you tell me witch kernel ubuntu 9.04 on the downloadable cd has?
[14:22] <apw> thats likely wahts in the -release pocket for jaunty 2.6.28-11.42
[14:22] <apw> seems that these messages are benign
[14:23] <apw> upsteeam talks about removing them, no fix as yet
[14:24] <apw> bug #433904
[14:24] <ubot3> Malone bug 433904 in linux "[karmic] regression: WinFast DTV 2000 H support has disappeared" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/433904
[14:41] <apw> seems that this used to be fixed via a sauce patch, and is now fixed in mainline 2.6.32-rc1.  need to investigate whether this can be ported to karmic
[14:48] <apw> ok ... mediums ...
[14:53] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/347458
[14:53] <ubot3> Malone bug 347458 in linux "lpia kernel used on alternate CD doesn't load cd-rom drivers" [Medium,Confirmed]
[14:58] <apw> latest report of this was on karmic alpha-6.  we have consolidates kernel configs i386-generic and lpia so we expect them to behave the same.  needs retesting on latest
[15:01] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/394354
[15:01] <ubot3> Malone bug 394354 in linux "Xorg update failed with 2.6.31-1" [Medium,Incomplete]
[15:01] <smb> The original problem might likely be fixed already. The last statement about that is very old
[15:02] <apw> re-prodded for testing results but likely closable
[15:02] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/395058
[15:02] <ubot3> Malone bug 395058 in linux "[karmic] Ubuntu kernel 2.6.31-1-generic fails to boot" [Medium,Triaged]
[15:04] <smb> Doh! Yeah, something strange in the early alphas. Unfortunately it seemed to not even go beyond grub
[15:05] <apw> thats last tested on -5 so we need a retest before we even try and diagnose that one
[15:06] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/396563
[15:06] <ubot3> Malone bug 396563 in linux "Headphone jack regression in 2.6.31-1" [Medium,Triaged]
[15:09] <smb> Upstream fix seems to have to gone into 2.6.31-rc9, so should be fixed. Will need to ask for feedback
[15:11] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/399877
[15:11] <ubot3> Malone bug 399877 in linux "Unable to mount 80GB iPod with nautilus" [Medium,Incomplete]
[15:19] <apw> seems that the original report is that a bad sdX1 partition cannot be mounted, but this really was a bad partition and the kernel was not at fault
[15:21] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/400682
[15:21] <ubot3> Malone bug 400682 in linux "[Karmic stac9227 regression] No sound after upgrade from Jaunty to Karmic" [Medium,In progress]
[15:22] <smb> It seems there has been some work going on and then nothing more since September.
[15:22] <smb> Maybe time for a little reminder...
[15:24] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/406312
[15:24] <ubot3> Malone bug 406312 in udev "loading/unloading of option driver does not work - breaks use of common usb modems" [Undecided,Invalid]
[15:25] <smb> As upstream basically rewrote usb-serial, we should ask for testing
[15:26] <dschulz> hi all
[15:26] <smb> Oh, there has been
[15:26] <dschulz> is there any known bug related to sound and switching between ttys?
[15:27] <apw> asked for testng on the usb issue as he has the updates in 31.2.  suspect userspace issue here
[15:27] <smb> dschulz, I have not heard of any, but that is not conclusive
[15:28] <smb> apw, yeah, the crash seems gone
[15:28] <smb> still might be a reference silently hold, so the module is not really removed...
[15:29] <dschulz> look, recently noticed that, while amarok was running (or any other player) and i switched to tty01, sound is muted until i switch back to tty07
[15:30] <dschulz> but when I switch back to tty07, sound is crappy for a while
[15:30] <apw> dschulz, not tried that myself
[15:31] <apw> perhaps the apps are stalled, i can't remember how its meant to work
[15:31] <apw> smb https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/407790
[15:31] <ubot3> Malone bug 407790 in linux "[Regression] No sound with Karmic on HP HDX 9300" [Medium,Triaged]
[15:31] <smb> I know amarok goes silence when the powersaving kicks in, so maybe the silence is intended...
[15:32] <dschulz> it used to keep running. I tried with mpg123, and sometimes it will never resume
[15:33] <dschulz> i mean, mpg123 will not continue playing after switching back to tty07
[15:33] <apw> that sounds a bit wrong, not in a position to test right now myself
[15:34] <dschulz> to me it looks like a scheduler issue
[15:34] <apw> actually i can test just audio
[15:34] <rtg> apw, do you remember how to get kmake to puke out cpp files ?
[15:35] <apw> rtg don't think i've ever done that
[15:35] <apw> oh i get you yes
[15:35] <apw> rtg you want -E output
[15:35] <rtg> hmm, I'm having interesting preprocessor problems.
[15:35] <apw> i normally compile V=1
[15:35] <apw> that prints the whole command line
[15:35] <apw> then switch that by hand
[15:36] <smb> dschulz, It rather is something special on Kubuntu. Didn't they move now from arts to pulseaudio...
[15:36] <apw> rtg did i make any sense there?
[15:36] <rtg> apw, yeah, but it seems like CPP is already -E
[15:37] <apw> dschulz, i just tested on my gnome install and i could switch to VT-1 for extended perdious with music and skpye working
[15:37] <apw> oh is this something which only uses CPP ?
[15:37] <apw> what is the line if you use V=1 for it?
[15:37] <rtg> apw, it seems the MODULE_IMPORT/MODULE_EXPORT macros don't work on amd64. wtf?
[15:38] <dschulz> apw: strange
[15:38] <apw> oh ... hrm ...
[15:38] <rtg> apw, I only tested i386
[15:39] <apw> rtg, how the heck can those only work on i386
[15:39] <apw> they are soooo simple
[15:39] <smb> So about bug 407790, seems we both have no clear idea. Seems just a case of needed alsa twiddles with input/outputs
[15:39] <ubot3> Malone bug 407790 in linux "[Regression] No sound with Karmic on HP HDX 9300" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/407790
[15:40] <rtg> apw, my thought exactly, but MODULE_IMPORT does not create an external reference.
[15:41] <apw> rtg hrm, actually that might just be the compiler being smart
[15:41] <apw> as actually you don't make a reference as such do you
[15:41] <apw> you don't _use_ the value at all
[15:41] <rtg> apw, so, if the symbol isn't assigned some value, then it won't reference?
[15:42] <apw> if the consuming file doesn't consume the value of the variable its not clear i would expect any reference to get generated
[15:42] <rtg> apw, hmm, sledge hammer tiem
[15:42] <apw> the declaration you emit is an indidation to type and existance but not a reference
[15:42] <apw> you likely need to generate like
[15:43] <apw> int use_name() {
[15:43] <apw> return name;
[15:43] <apw> }
[15:43] <apw> in your import one
[15:44] <apw> and that might need to have __FILE__ in it too to make sure its not clashing
[15:44] <rtg> apw, I'll bet there  is a more elegant way of doing this by implanting a static symbol using linker scripts, for now I'm gonna solve the issue the hard way.
[15:44] <apw> yeah i am sure there is a saner way
[15:45] <apw> why do we not just add module_request('intel-agp') to the i915 init ?
[15:45] <apw> is that not what we mean?
[15:45] <apw> rtg ^^
[15:46] <rtg> apw, turns out that doesn't load the intel-agp dependencies (I don't think)
[15:46] <apw> really, hrm that sucks
[15:46] <rtg> apw, I'll reexamine that concept
[15:46] <apw> Keybuk, if the kernel loads a module via request_module doesn't that really get done via modprobe and should i expect the deps loaded also?
[15:47] <rtg> apw, that only works if there is a root fs
[15:47] <apw> rtg the other option might be to literally join the two together in the module.deps file?
[15:47] <apw> ie. can we somehow just add the deps when we run depmod?
[15:47] <apw> outside the kernel
[15:47] <rtg> wretch!
[15:47] <apw> :)
[15:48] <apw> ok perhaps not
[15:52] <rtg> apw, this does it: #define MODULE_IMPORT(mod_name) extern int sym_link_##mod_name; int func_sym_link_##mod_name(void) {sym_link_##mod_name=1;}; EXPORT_SYMBOL(func_sym_link_##mod_name);
[15:52] <apw> yeah thats what i was aluding too ... VILE
[15:52] <apw> but if it works, ship it :)
[15:52] <rtg> apw, I'm gonna
[15:52] <pgraner> rtg: what is the scheduler bug number?
[15:52] <apw> *shudder*
[15:52] <pgraner> rtg: for deadline over cfq
[15:52] <rtg> then I'm gonna talk to Jon about a better way.
[15:52] <rtg> pgraner, hang on, lookign
[15:53] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/410984
[15:53] <ubot3> Malone bug 410984 in linux "Regression: HP hdx 9300 often hangs on boot with acpi enabled" [Medium,Triaged]
[15:53] <apw> requesting retesting with latest kernel, and with nousb
[15:53] <rtg> pgraner, bug #381300
[15:53] <ubot3> Malone bug 381300 in linux "elevator=cfq (default) cause starvation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/381300
[15:54] <pgraner> rtg: thanks, did this effect network transfers as well?
[15:55] <rtg> pgraner, in as much as processes use block devices. nfs perhaps?
[15:55] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/412704
[15:55] <ubot3> Malone bug 412704 in linux "Random Kernel Panics on Dell Latitude 2100 on Karmic" [Medium,Confirmed]
[15:56] <apw> this seems to be wireless related, works much better with LBM, don't think we'll fix that one
[15:59] <pgraner> rtg: what scheduler are we shipping with? FAIR_SLEEPERS?
[15:59] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/415632
[15:59] <ubot3> Malone bug 415632 in linux "apparmor not properly handling file deletion on NFS" [Medium,Triaged]
[16:00] <apw> jjohansen, how is this one ?
[16:00] <rtg> pgraner,  FAIR_SLEEPERS is a feature of CFS (which is disabled), but appeared to have a major impact on CFQ (an I/O scheduler)
[16:00] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/421617
[16:00] <ubot3> Malone bug 421617 in network-manager "USB Dongle Not Detected Since Upgrade to Network Manager 0.8x" [Undecided,Invalid]
[16:02] <smb> Seems fix released
[16:03] <rtg> pgraner, lemme clarify, CFS is the default process scheduler. one of the features of CFS _was_ FAIR_SLEEPERS, but I've disabled it per upstream cherry-pick.
[16:09] <apw> rtg didn't it come back in a fixed form in .2 ?
[16:10] <apw> must have imagined it
[16:10] <rtg> apw, I don't think so, but I'd better check. I don't remember seeing any sched changes.
[16:10] <apw> must have been mainline -rc2
[16:10] <rtg> the upstream changes were much more then Greg would have taken, IMHO
[16:12] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/426870
[16:12] <ubot3> Malone bug 426870 in linux "BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at 00000004" [Medium,Triaged]
[16:14] <smb> No stacktrace, and no description what he was actually doing when the crash happened or whether this happened ever again
[16:15] <smb> Lets close it for now and wait whether it comes again
[16:16] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/430694
[16:16] <ubot3> Malone bug 430694 in linux "agpgart-intel not loaded before drm sometimes, causes KMS to fail" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:16] <apw> rtg is solving that one right now ...
[16:17] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/442463
[16:17] <ubot3> Malone bug 442463 in linux "Regression: frequent popping sound with light indicating that sound is supposed to be muted" [Medium,Triaged]
[16:20]  * smb has now idea for that one
[16:24] <jjohansen> apw: still working on it
[16:24] <jjohansen> apw: I thought I had it but my fix didn't work :(
[16:24] <smb> Decided to shove that to the ubuntu-audio-team
[16:24] <smb> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/444801
[16:24] <ubot3> Malone bug 444801 in linux "prism 2.5 broke in 2.6.30.x (fixed upstream in 2.6.32)" [Unknown,Fix released]
[16:24] <apw> deffo audio, assigned to their team
[16:24] <apw> jjohansen, thanks for the update
[16:25] <smb> apw, Seems we got a patch there to try a test kernel
[16:25]  * smb offers to do that
[16:26] <apw> am already building it
[16:26] <smb> wfm :)
[16:28]  * lamont hopes someone other than him will track down 455456
[16:29] <rtg> bug #455456
[16:30] <lamont> meh..  I should remember that 'b-u-g' token
[16:30] <rtg> apw, of what use is the bugbot if it goes deaf?
[16:30] <lamont> rtg: fails to boot winxp pro sp2
[16:30] <lamont> kvm regression somewhere between 2.6.28-11 and 2.6.28-15
[16:30] <apw> bug #455456
[16:30] <rtg> lamont, wasn't that a grub thing?
[16:30] <lamont> I _thought_ I'd filed the bug then, but apparently I fail
[16:30]  * apw slaps ubot3
[16:30] <lamont> pretty sure winxp pro booting in a kvm machine doesn't use grub
[16:31] <rtg> lamont, ah, I was just remembering a fix that went by from cjwatson yesterday or the day before.
[16:32] <rtg> lamont, ah, thats a _Jaunty_ regression. smb should worry about it.
[16:32] <lamont> rtg: and the reason that I'll probably be running karmic with 2.6.28-11 installed.
[16:32] <lamont> I'd really like to come currnet
[16:32] <smb> rtg, got too much to worry to worry
[16:32] <cjwatson> no such bug as 455456
[16:32] <lamont> I rarely care about the vm, but when I do, rebooting and killing all my windows?  painful
[16:33] <lamont> bug 445456
[16:33] <ubot3> Malone bug 445456 in linux "kvm hangs booting windows XP Pro SP2 or later, since at least 2.6.28-15" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/445456
[16:33] <lamont> stupid fingers
[16:33] <cjwatson> 2.6.28 -> jaunty, unlikely to have been anything I touched certainly
[16:34] <lamont> yeah - when I looked a the package diff, there was a HUGE diff in kvm/* introduced in a security fix
[16:34] <lamont> so we should blame -security
[16:34] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/395219
[16:34] <ubot3> Malone bug 395219 in linux "selinux kernel panic 2.6.28-13.45" [Medium,Fix released]
[16:35] <apw> ok this one is fixed as the code is gone
[16:35] <smb> lamont, huge diff sounds a bit strange for security
[16:36] <lamont> smb: well.. huge is a relative term, and there were probably other things between -11 and -15... I didn't narrow it down much at that point - I was about 5 days into fighting with the reinstall thinking windoze had gone sideways before I remembered that the kernel had recently upgraded
[16:38] <apw> 7adfd5c71693b81e995283805b17aa4a2ee0ecd9
[16:38] <apw> smb ^^
[16:42] <smb> lamont, I try to get at that tomorrow
[16:43] <lamont> smb: ta
[16:43] <lamont> if you need an image, or have something for me to test, I'm all yours
[16:44] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/414373
[16:44] <ubot3> Malone bug 414373 in linux "WLAN Ralink 2561/RT61 "Device not ready"" [Low,Incomplete]
[16:44] <apw> ok this one seems to be a case of two drivers are picking up the device.  asked for infor from the working kernel
[16:45] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/414795
[16:45] <ubot3> Malone bug 414795 in linux "PC beep no longer works in Karmic alpha4" [Medium,Confirmed]
[16:45] <apw> audio, punt
[16:49] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/417842
[16:50] <ubot3> Malone bug 417842 in linux "WARNING: at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.31/kernel/power/suspend_test.c:52 suspend_test_finish+0x7c/0x80()" [Low,In progress]
[16:50] <apw> benign message from the kernel on slow resume.  this is not a bug per-see, but we should stop an oops being generated to stop the bugs being reported
[16:51] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/444362
[16:51] <ubot3> Malone bug 444362 in linux "status/debugging text incorrectly appears on boot" [Undecided,New]
[16:55] <apw> not kernel message, forked to the packages which seem to be making noise
[16:59] <apw> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/401591
[16:59] <ubot3> Malone bug 401591 in linux "brightness dark and not working on acer 5715" [Low,In progress]
[16:59] <apw> pre-acpi fixes, needds retesting on the latest also
[17:15] <lamont> bug 445588
[17:16] <ubot3> lamont: Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
[17:16] <lamont> brillaint
[17:16] <lamont> bug 445588
[17:17] <lamont> meh.  all your builds are fail guys. :-(  you Build-Depend: cpio without declaring such
[17:26] <rtg> lamont: I just added that a couple of uploads ago
[17:27] <rtg> for Karmic, that ios
[17:27] <rtg> is*
[17:28] <lamont> ah, ok
[17:28] <lamont> I'm playing catchup from a sync on 1 oct
[17:29] <lamont> rtg: I rather suspect that cpio was cruft in the tarball for quite a while
[17:29] <rtg> lamont: I inherited that bit from pre-Hardy days AFAICT
[17:31] <lamont> rtg: in that case, feel free to mark 445588 fix-released.  sorry
[17:32] <lamont> on the bright side, I didn't file 3 bugs
[17:33] <rtg> lamont: yeah, some of the builds started failing for no reason that I could see other then cpio was missing.
[17:37] <rtg> lamont: there is no linux-ports package for Karmic. is it OK to mark that one invalid?
[17:37] <lamont> uh.... there _is_ a linux-ports package in karmic (as of oct 1), so that's probably a "pls remove this package" bug instead?
[17:38] <rtg> or rather, the ports package has been incorporated into the standard linux package
[17:38] <lamont> meh
[17:38] <rtg> lamont: ack
[17:38] <lamont> ./l/linux-ports/2.6.30-2.4/linux-ports_2.6.30-2.4_20091006-0409-i386-failed.gz <-- after that version?
[17:38] <rtg> lamont: yes
[17:38] <lamont> --> invalid
[17:39] <rtg> AFAIK its no longer used
[18:18] <tj83_> apw, rtg you available for a moment?
[18:18] <apw> sup?
[18:19] <tj83_> https://www.securepaste.com/decrypt_data.php?id=169TsI5Y11&password=rtl8187b
[18:19] <tj83_> there are your rtl8187b pieces hopefully i have not tested them as of yet.
[18:20] <tj83_> bug #254438
[18:20] <ubot3> Malone bug 254438 in linux "realtek RTL8187B wireless card does not work reliable" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254438
[18:20] <tj83_> i'm not in a wireless environment atm but as soon as i try them myself let you know the results
[18:22] <tj83_> if it can be put into karmic.... I would love you lol.
[18:22] <tj83_> if it makes it into Lucid, then i can like you a lot still
[18:25] <apw> tj83_, put that link to the source into the bug
[18:25] <tj83_> will do.
[18:33] <tj83_> apw, I just noticed that when i tried to update the description earlier it did not take, i am trying again, when i click on the green check to save it, i get a red frame and it sits without accepting the changes
[18:36] <tj83_> apw, this is what i have tried to post to it as a proceeding addition http://www.pastebin.ca/1601944
[18:41] <tj83_> apw, is it locked of some sort?
[18:43] <apw> is what locked
[18:44] <tj83_> the description i cannot modify it. It allows me to input text then when i save (green check icon) it gets a red frame and a busy animation it never accepts the change. I actually tried to change it this am then again hours later.
[18:45] <tj83_> it accepts comments but not description changes
[18:46] <tj83_> dont want anyone to pass by the bug based on the bad info in the description.
[18:59] <tj83_> got it fixed....
[19:14] <Darxus> I hate ABI.
[19:17] <Darxus> On every line in debian.master/rules.d/* that contained "silentoldconfig" I appended "skipabi=true skipmodule=true".  Why am I still getting ABI errors?
[19:27] <apw> Darxus, what does silentoldconfig have to do with ABI?
[19:32] <Darxus> apw: It occurrs on the lines where make is run.
[19:33] <Darxus> The first occurrance of "make" in my build log is:
[19:33] <Darxus> make ARCH=i386 EXTRAVERSION=-11-generic CONFIG_DEBUG_SECTION_MISMATCH=y SUBLEVEL=31 KBUILD_BUILD_VERSION="38" O=/home/darxus/ubuntu/linux/linux-2.6.31/debian/build/build-generic silentoldconfig prepare scripts skipabi=true skipmodule=true
[19:33] <Darxus> Why didn't that skip ABI?
[19:36] <apw> Darxus, the skipabi there is being passed to the kernel makefile, but abi checks are done in the rules file
[19:41] <Darxus> So what do I actually need to do to disable abi and modules checks?
[19:43] <apw> Darxus, set autobuild=1 in the rules.d/0*
[19:43] <apw> AUTOBUILD=1 even
[19:45] <Darxus> apw: That will skip modules checks too?
[19:46] <Darxus> Ah, yes, cool, thanks.
[20:06] <Darxus> Have you recently seen any cases where LINUX_VERSION_CODE is defined as nothing in include/linux/version.h?
[20:07] <Darxus> It was causing me problems until approximately when I traced it to that file.  Now I can't reproduce it.
[20:09] <Darxus> Any opinions of Con Kolivas' new kernel scheduler, BFS?
[20:10] <bucky> it's for an old kernel and you can't use tickless... i don't know if i have an opinion about that
[20:11] <bucky> i think Linus treated Con poorly and Alan Cox as well... that is the only opinion i have about that
[20:11] <ikonia> bucky: stop that ranting in this channel
[20:12] <Darxus> Old kernel?
[20:12] <bucky> yup
[20:12] <Darxus> The current BFS patch is for the kernel version used in Karmic.
[20:13] <Darxus> http://ck.kolivas.org/patches/bfs/2.6.31-sched-bfs-303.patch
[20:13] <Darxus> Which is the current non-rc upstream.
[20:14] <bucky> then ubuntu rewrote it...  btw BFS is a dirty acronym
[20:14] <bucky> naughty
[20:14] <Darxus> Rewrote what?
[20:15] <Darxus> "Dirty" as in it's already used by the Be File System?  That is disappointing.
[20:16] <bucky> linux-2.6.22 http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/kernel/
[20:16] <Darxus> bucky: Yeah that's old, and not what I'm talking about.
[20:16] <Darxus> Con is back.
[20:16] <Darxus> BFS 303 was released two days ago.
[20:17] <Darxus> It was first built in August.
[20:17] <bucky> Darxus, so what's your opinion of it since you know more about it than i do
[20:17] <Darxus> bucky: Curious.
[20:17] <Darxus> I guess that's not really an opinion.
[20:18] <Darxus> I guess I'm excited.
[20:18] <Darxus> I'm attempting to package it.
[20:18] <bucky> what about apparmor?  is ubuntu going to rewrite that for every kernel update seeing as Novell/SuSE doesn't update it often?
[20:19] <Darxus> I don't know.  I think it's good to avoid stuff that's not in mainline.
[20:19] <jjohansen> bucky: it doesn't need to be rewriiten for every release, and it is the process of being upstreamed
[20:20] <Darxus> But maybe the people maintaining mainline are dumb about some things, and it's worth Ubuntu maintaining deltas on those.
[20:20] <Darxus> The BFS story is all about mainline folks being dumb about what they accept.
[20:20] <Darxus> It's sounds pretty convincing.
[20:21] <jjohansen> there are certainly reasons to maintain things outside of mainline
[20:21] <Darxus> I'm really shocked that linux_2.6.31-11.38.diff.gz is 280 thousand lines.
[20:21] <jjohansen> eg. aufs, is the union file system being used for livecds, it won't go up to mainline
[20:22] <jjohansen> because mainline is waiting for union mounts, which aren't there yet
[20:22] <Darxus> In the case of BFS, I believe the delta would be much easier to maintain if mainline would accept plugable schedulers.
[20:23] <Darxus> And the fact that they have been completely unwilling... seems... odd.
[20:24] <bucky> i think the fact that Linus says the kernel is bloated is a sign that he's getting tired and something needs to be done to streamline the development process, i don't blame him, if i had his money i'd be out laying on a beach somewhere
[20:25] <Darxus> Heh.
[20:25] <Darxus> I'm sure it must be nuts to maintain.
[20:31] <bucky> someday Linus is going to take his kernel and go home, i wonder if there is a clause in it that he can take it back like Hans Reiser had in his contract with his developers
[20:33] <apw> he can't take it home it is released under the GL2
[20:33] <apw> GPL2
[20:34] <Darxus> Hah.  I wasn't aware Reiser had that.
[20:35] <Darxus> I've waited for the kernel package build to fail for three hours so many times :(
[20:36] <Darxus> But I'm strangely optomistic that AUTOBUILD=1 in debian.master/rules.d/0* will make it work this time.
[20:36] <apw> Darxus, you could just build one of the flavours
[20:38] <Darxus> apw: Yeah, but that works.
[20:38] <Darxus> It's a full debuild that fails.
[20:39] <apw> heh
[20:39] <Darxus> linux-image-2.6.31-11-generic version 2.6.31-11.38 patched with bfs would be linux-image-2.6.31-11-generic-bfs version 2.6.31-11.38?
[20:42] <Darxus> apw: My failures have all been ABI and module check failures, because the documentation sucks.
[20:43] <Darxus> Well, except for the one early thing where the version_code wasn't getting defined.  Which I can't replicate now :(
[20:44] <apw> often we would leave the name the same and the version ewould be 2.6.31-11.38bfs1
[20:44] <tj83_> apw,  well.... i am sad to say the drivers given for the rtl8187b do not build under 2.6.31 because of some change in the network driver API. So that would be a kernel hacker's department to pick up from here. I would not know where to start to mend he driver up for the new API
[20:45] <tj83_> apw, but i am going back to my jaunty install, waiting on updates to finish up to test further for proper function.
[20:45] <Darxus> apw: Well, BFS is too new to go in the main kernel, so it would need to be a different package name.  And thanks for the version.
[20:47] <bjf> apw, the lines in d-i/modules/input-modules have a '?' at the end, I thought that meant the module could be built in or a module
[20:47] <apw> yep if its in a PPA you can just append bfsN indicaqting it is based from the original version before, with bfs
[20:48] <rtg> bjf, taht is correct unless none of the modules in that package are built. kernel-wedge considers it an error to have an empty package.
[20:48] <apw> bjf, yep thats the .... what he said
[20:48] <bjf> rtg, that's what I ran into, thanks
[20:49] <bjf> rtg, would have been nice if that were the error message
[20:49] <rtg> bjf, there is a way to add arch and flavour specific exclusions. Look at the master branch for examples.
[20:49] <rtg> bjf, yeah, kernel-wedge is kind of primitive
[20:50] <bjf> rtg, is that something we maintain? (kernel-wedge)
[20:51] <rtg> bjf, nah, I make cjwatson fix it.
[20:52] <rtg> bjf, what takes me days to figure out he can usually whip out in a few minutes.
[21:39] <Darxus> I'm tempted to write a debian/rules, or maybe make wrapper that records timestamps of output lines, and then during the next build it uses those timestamps to calculate and print percentage complete and eta.
[21:40] <Darxus> Hmm, I could make it a wrapper for anything.
[21:43] <Darxus> Wow, only 14% of the lines in my build log are uniq.
[21:54] <cjwatson> Darxus: there's a 'ts' program in the moreutils package that does the first half of that
[22:09] <Darxus> Thanks.
[23:12] <Darxus> mv: cannot stat `/home/darxus/ubuntu/linux/linux-2.6.31/debian/linux-image-2.6.31-11-a33-generic/lib/modules/2.6.31-11-a33-generic/modules.order': No such file or directory
[23:12] <Darxus> How do I make debuild not fail on that?
[23:12] <Darxus> Another three hours.
[23:13] <Darxus> I'm using AUTOBUILD=1.
[23:14] <Darxus> Where did the "a33" come from?  I've never seen that sequence of characters anywhere in this.


[10:39] <gunix> is there any way to introduce categories for the ubuntu community pages, based on the ubuntu you are writing for?
[10:40] <gunix> i was thinking about adding the version in the title
[12:30] <gunix> ok guys, so i created this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HALAMP
[12:31] <gunix> also updated the old one to point to the new one: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HighlyAvailableLAMP
[15:32] <gunix> added: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HaProxy


[01:21] <dashua> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-6.1249345287.png
[01:22] <dashua> Sexxy o no?
[01:35] <BHSPitMonkey> Pretty nice... Based on New Wave?
[01:37] <BHSPitMonkey> Not sure I like the letter contrast in a few places, but it's nice
[01:43] <dashua> Not new wave, more of Dust
[01:43] <dashua> Thx.
[01:43] <dashua> How does it render on your screen?
[01:43] <dashua> Color palette?
[08:29] <thorwil> kwwii, mat_t : i recently turned off icons on buttons and in menus. found only one case where it bugs me (besides the Applications menu, but that is a clear case): the commands for rotating and flipping the image in gimp
[08:55] <mac_v> thorwil: we need to file bugs
[08:56] <mac_v> the app devs arent aware of the recent changes ,
[08:56] <thorwil> mac_v: well, that would be a "bug" in strategy. usually best to discuss first
[08:57] <mac_v> ah... ;)
[08:57] <andreasn> thorwil, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588668#c2
[08:58] <thorwil> andreasn: oh, nice. i was a bit confused what is happening in gnome and what is happening in ubunu
[09:07] <thorwil> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=588668#c3
[09:36] <mac_v> andreasn: you are one of the inkscape devs right? is it normal for inkscape 0.47 to be slow on start?,drains CPU for ~5secs before it starts , this happened in with v0.46 in Jaunty too , but for v0.47 it seems longer , is there a bug regarding this or do i need to file a new one?
[09:37] <andreasn> I'm a heavy Inkscape user, but I'm not a developer. I haven't noticed the behavior myself, but there must be some way to measure what's going on
[09:38] <andreasn> try a search in the bug tracker in launchpad on it, but if not, it sounds like a bug
[09:39] <mac_v> andreasn: ok... i thought you were a dev since you are listed in the inkscape Authors , or maybe it is another "Andreas Nilsson"
[09:40] <andreasn> oh, well, I did some graphics here and there and some sketch for the preferences dialog layout
[09:40] <mac_v> ;)
[09:40] <andreasn> (it's still not optimal, but compared to what we had then, it's quite good)
[17:07] <FLOZz> Hello all  \o_


[13:37] <HTDx64> hello, can I ask display driver related question here?
[13:38] <tjaalton> sure
[13:42] <HTDx64> Is Radeon HD4870 supported in 11.04? I've tried to install it, and I get kernel panic each time, with lot's of magic text (mostly hex-like) and the only understable thing is "Radeon" :)
[13:42] <HTDx64> it happens both when trying "Install Ubuntu" and "Try without installing" option
[13:43] <tjaalton> should work yes
[13:44] <HTDx64> so what could be the cause? BIOS settings?
[13:46] <tjaalton> you could try adding "radeon.modeset=0" to the kernel cmdline
[13:54] <HTDx64> when I had 11.04 installed (via upgrade), i had major display problems - artifacts (white rectangles in random places, noise, pixels), very slow performance on open drivers. on FGLRX the problem was with very frequent crashes. are they known problems, or rather uncommon? could it mean my Radeon is broken?
[13:58] <tjaalton> does it happen with windows? or an older ubuntu version?
[14:01] <HTDx64> no problems with windows, on 10.10 there was a slight artifact problem with open driver, disappeared with FGLRX.
[14:02] <tjaalton> ok so it regressed
[14:02] <tjaalton> but do try the option i told
[14:03] <HTDx64> ok, I'll check this out
[14:04] <tjaalton> if it works, please file a bug against the kernel
[14:04] <tjaalton> 'ubuntu-bug linux'
[14:05] <tjaalton> and you could add xserver-xorg-video-ati as an additional component to the bug
[14:05] <tjaalton> hmm, maybe just run 'ubuntu-bug xserver-xorg-video-ati' and we can take it from there
[14:08] <HTDx64> i'll try to boot it now, how can I add a cmdline when menu appears?
[14:09] <tjaalton> press 'e' to edit the boot option
[14:09] <tjaalton> then select the line that says kernel
[14:09] <tjaalton> and add the option to the end
[14:10] <HTDx64> any "," or ";" or " " before?
[14:13] <HTDx64> nevermind, I'll figure it out, rebooting...
[14:54] <HTDx64> hello
[14:54] <HTDx64> I've just installed 11.04 with radeon.modeset=0 option
[14:55] <tjaalton> so it worked?
[14:55] <HTDx64> so far so good, there was some artifacts on top bar, but they disappeared, I'll try to install FGLRX...
[14:55] <tjaalton> file the bug first
[14:55] <tjaalton> without the option
[14:56] <tjaalton> if it boots..
[14:57] <HTDx64> should I try to boot from USB without the option now?
[14:58] <tjaalton> hmm
[14:58] <tjaalton> so the installed system doesn't have that option
[14:58] <tjaalton> got confused there
[14:59] <HTDx64> I've added this option on installation USB
[14:59] <tjaalton> right, but it's probably not used on the installed system
[14:59] <tjaalton> check /etc/default/grub
[14:59] <HTDx64> I'm checking this right now
[14:59] <tjaalton> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT
[15:00] <tjaalton> it normally has just "quiet splash"
[15:00] <HTDx64> GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet splash"
[15:00] <tjaalton> right
[15:00] <tjaalton> and actually, cat /proc/cmdline
[15:01] <tjaalton> would confirm what you had
[15:01] <HTDx64> BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.38-8-generic root=UUID=e88bf567-bc60-4140-b0db-3d110c8a7f51 ro quiet splash vt.handoff=7
[15:02] <tjaalton> right
[15:02] <tjaalton> so.. it's weird
[15:03] <tjaalton> the live-session _should_ be identical to the installed version
[15:03] <tjaalton> and there are no updates either that should explain this
[15:03] <HTDx64> well, I've checked updates on install, and ran update right after installing
[15:04] <HTDx64> but it booted before update
[15:04] <tjaalton> yeah, but still, there is no newer kernel etc that could've fixed it (that's not on the cd)
[15:08] <HTDx64> i've experienced such strange behaviour with hardware before (soundcard / network was dead untill powered off for 30 seconds) - reset / reboot didn't help. i'll just try to boot it from USB once more. if it boots - it was a hardware problem then.
[15:15] <HTDx64> seems like no bug here - it boots now without the option, I think it's something wrong with my PC (Radeon or chipset)
[15:15] <tjaalton> heh,ok
[15:17] <HTDx64> BTW, is it possible to install Gnome 3 with Radeon FGLRX driver?
[15:17] <tjaalton> guess it should work
[15:18] <tjaalton> though natty doesn't have gnome 3
[15:19] <HTDx64> I've tried to use special PPA for this, but it worked only with open driver. with FGLRX it crashed with screen blinking like crazy. but again it could be my Radeon - something is obviously wrong with it
[15:19] <tjaalton> ok, dunno then
[15:20] <HTDx64> thanks anyway, now I have Natty installed :)
[15:59] <Sarvatt> tjaalton, RAOF: are you kidding me? did I just miss the wishlist bug session? it wasn't there when I looked at the schedule earlier, did it just get rescheduled in the past again?
[16:01] <tjaalton> Sarvatt: yep, we're done :)
[16:02] <tjaalton> a couple of bugs left, dind't have time to go through all of them
[16:02] <Sarvatt> it was scheduled at the same time as the fwts one, then disappeared so I went to fwts, then after fwts got out it wasn't on the schedule at all
[16:04] <ricotz> hi, is it already decided which xserver version will be targeted?
[16:05] <ricotz> Sarvatt, hi ^
[16:05] <Sarvatt> ricotz: most likely 1.10.x
[16:05] <ricotz> (meaning the border-barrier support)
[16:06] <ricotz> hmm, ok, any chance this is going to be backported from trunk?
[16:06] <Sarvatt> (which still isn't even in 1.11)
[16:06] <Sarvatt> yeah it only exists as patches anyway as far as I know
[16:06] <ricotz> really, i though it is in the trunk, and fedora cherry-picked it
[16:07] <ricotz> alright, i think you know it better ;)
[16:08] <Sarvatt> I still dont see it in xserver master
[16:10] <ricotz> ok, i was hoping to test this with mutter/gnome-shell at some point soon
[16:11] <Sarvatt> http://sarvatt.com/downloads/patches/xserver-1.10-pointer-barriers.patch
[16:13] <ricotz> thanks
[16:52] <Sarvatt> RAOF: in case I forget at the planning session tomorrow, we need that pointer barriers patch in O :)
[17:12] <bjsnider> ricotz, does your home directory open when you click the sidebar link? mine doesn't
[17:18] <ricotz> bjsnider, you let nautilus handle your desktop?
[17:27] <bjsnider> ricotz, yes
[17:29] <ricotz> bjsnider, ok, i can confirm it with enabled nautilus-desktop, without it works though
[19:50] <AlexzAK> hi
[20:00] <AlexzAK> Please take a look in to my bug report #779607 about intel video i915
[20:01] <AlexzAK> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/779607
[20:01] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 779607 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Xorg freeze with i915 chipset on Toshiba satelite l300-144 laptop (affects: 1) (heat: 6)" [Undecided,New]
[22:27] <ricotz> bjsnider, the nautilus problem should be fixed
[23:21] <kcin1> i have a problem with my touchscreen,evtest works,but xinput test returns nothing


[08:35] <JaneW> hi all
[08:35] <JaneW> to all those that were pinging me over the week-end - I am back.
[08:36] <JaneW> sorry that I wasn't working but I took the time off, and feel much better for it
[08:36] <JaneW> so bring it on!
[08:42] <spacey> JaneW: i don't think we are expecting you to work every day in the week :)
[08:42] <spacey> that would not be healthy
[08:43] <JaneW> spacey: hi :)
[08:43] <JaneW> pygi seems to
[08:43] <spacey> ah
[08:43] <JaneW> although in his defense I think he is just pinging cos he sees I'm connected
[08:43] <spacey> he pings a lot anyway
[08:43] <JaneW> and thanks to my ADSL line reset the /away flag gets turned off
[08:43] <spacey> Kansen voor jonge, talentvolle, bevlogen en intelligente noordelijke ondernemers
[08:45] <spacey> Opportunities for young, talented and intelligent northern entrepreneurs
[08:45] <JaneW> Chances for young, talented, (bevlogen?) and intelligent northern
[08:46] <JaneW> yes opportunities is better
[08:46] <JaneW> ondernemers sounds like undertakers
[08:46] <JaneW> but if you onderneem you take part
[08:46] <JaneW> so it could be entrepreneur
[08:47] <JaneW> what's bevlogen?
[09:08] <spacey> babelfish translates it to animated
[09:08] <spacey> but i don't think its accurate so i just left it out
[09:08] <JaneW> oh ok
[09:08] <JaneW> animated is loosely translated as characterful
[09:09] <spacey> ondernemers are people with their own small business
[09:09] <spacey> :)
[09:09] <JaneW> you would describe someone who talks with lots of facial expressions and hand gestures (particularly if they are humourous) as animated
[09:10] <spacey> bevlogen means bezield, geinspireerd
[09:11] <spacey> another translating challenge
[09:11] <spacey> :P
[09:11] <spacey> anyway I already blogged
[09:11] <spacey> so
[09:11] <spacey> free drinks on friday
[09:11] <spacey> :)
[09:12] <pygi> ogra: around perhaps?
[09:21] <pygi> spacey: poke?
[09:22] <pygi> why is nobody alive :-P
[09:38] <spacey> i'm just about to leave
[09:38] <spacey> sorry pygi:)
[09:39] <pygi> spacey: will do :)
[09:39] <pygi> just saw u wrote something, and wanted to review :)
[09:39] <spacey> yeah
[09:40] <spacey> but i wasn't able to link outside the worksheet
[09:40] <spacey> crappy wiki stuff
[09:40] <pygi> well, how do I review when u haven't posted it :-P
[09:40] <spacey> where do you expect the content
[09:40] <pygi> well, sec
[09:40] <spacey> well its in the old cookbook
[09:40] <spacey> already wrote it a month ago
[09:40] <pygi> for this part: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToCookEdubuntu/ServHard
[09:41] <spacey> ServHard?
[09:42] <pygi> well, server hardware :)
[09:42] <spacey> thats not a chapter
[09:42] <spacey> and i suggest we write out the titles
[09:42] <spacey> HardwareRequirements
[09:43] <spacey> covers client and server
[09:43] <pygi> hm, for client/workstation there is a different thing
[09:43] <spacey> no
[09:43] <pygi> in Part III
[09:43] <spacey> for workstation there is a different thing
[09:43] <pygi> well, look at the layout :-P
[09:44] <spacey> what i wrote covers thin client and server requirements
[09:44] <pygi> ah, true, yes
[09:44] <pygi> sorry :-P
[09:44] <spacey> can't we just sub the pages in the chapters
[09:45] <pygi> well, we can
[09:45] <spacey> HowToCookEdubuntu/Chapters/HardwareRequirements
[09:45] <spacey> that is most convienant with linking
[09:45] <spacey> i will add it when i get back
[09:45] <spacey> have a meeting at 10:00
[09:45] <pygi> k, enjoy :)
[09:46] <spacey> thats in 15 minutes and its a few km away
[09:46] <spacey> so i should go now
[09:46] <spacey> bbl
[10:04] <froud> morn
[10:10] <pygi> morin' froud
[10:11] <pygi> mornin'*
[11:39] <ogra> JaneW, highvoltage, the list *is* set up to discard non-member mail automatically i know no way to switch off the "send copy to listadmin"
[11:40] <JaneW> ogra: dang
[11:40] <JaneW> ogra: and there I was getting all hopeful
[11:40] <JaneW> afaict none of the spam goes to the list
[11:40] <ogra> yep
[11:40] <JaneW> so it only bothers me (and any other admin)
[11:40] <ogra> as no non-member mails do
[11:41] <JaneW> which is annoying, but I can deal with it
[11:41] <ogra> i just have a special folder for them and ctrl-a/"mark all read" them once a week
[12:14] <highvoltage> ogra: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/admin/edubuntu-devel/privacy/sender
[12:14] <highvoltage> ogra: check the second last action, it says "hold"
[12:14] <highvoltage> ogra: if that is set to discard, than it would automatically discard non-member posts, at the moment it holds them for review
[12:15] <ogra> try it :)
[12:15] <ogra> i wont argue if i dont get 100s of useless mails
[12:27] <highvoltage> JaneW, ogra: seems to work fine now. i sent an e-mail from a non-suscribed address and it was automatically discarded
[12:34] <JaneW> highvoltage: er good, I do process all waiting mails many times a day, but took a break over the long week-end, maybe that's when you noticed the 'rpblem'?
[12:34] <JaneW> problem even
[12:40] <highvoltage> JaneW: i didn't think it's a big problem, it's just inconvenient moderating so much messages when less than 1% of it is actually meant for the list
[12:40] <highvoltage> JaneW: i've been thinking of proposing it for a while now :)
[12:41] <JaneW> highvoltage: oic, well I frequently have 100+ messages in my inbox, about 10 of which are actually for me...
[12:41] <highvoltage> other lists i'm on is usually discard for non-members by default
[12:41] <highvoltage> JaneW: you'll still get the discard messages though
[12:41] <highvoltage> JaneW: your best bet there is to do like ogra and filter it somewhere
[12:41] <JaneW> I used to be very diligent and let the odd (1 in 200) valid post though
[12:41] <highvoltage> mine goes into //INBOX/lists/edubuntu-devel/admin/
[12:42] <JaneW> but it;s far too time consuming to moderate each message, so now I just discard whole batches
[12:42] <highvoltage> yeah, me too
[12:43] <highvoltage> the only moderation requests we should get now are for posts which seem dodgy somehow (as we've defined in mailman). it should be less than two a week now, i think.
[12:43] <JaneW> I was also making a point of banning all spammers...
[12:43] <highvoltage> i was thinking of blocking all messages that end with chase.com or microsoftsupport.com, etc
[12:44] <highvoltage> but generally it seems best to block non-member posts.
[01:22] <JaneW> Bluekuja: why do you keep PMing me?
[01:36] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: you're allowed to talk to us on the #edubuntu channel too, you know :)
[01:37] <highvoltage> Seveas the mennice
[02:28] <jsgotangco> ogra: email please :)
[02:29] <ogra> again ?
[02:29] <ogra> isnt one a day enough for you ?
[02:29] <ogra> ;)
[02:29] <jsgotangco> heh
[02:30] <ogra> do we have them ?
[02:30] <jsgotangco> we compiled what we have
[02:30] <ogra> oh, where ?
[02:31] <jsgotangco> i have a few chapters with me
[02:31] <jsgotangco> but hardly complete :/ as is
[02:31] <ogra> hmm, so we have to package you and ship you to the users ?
[02:31] <jsgotangco> we could make a serial novel type of release lol
[02:31] <jsgotangco> joke
[02:31] <ogra> heh
[02:32] <jsgotangco> ogra: i dunno if this is even possible i do have about edubuntu done already though
[02:32] <ogra> hmm, i should pulll it into -artwork then
[02:33] <ogra> but artwork and docs are rather past beta stuff
[02:33] <jsgotangco> should i still include your features list?
[02:33] <ogra> at least for us
[02:33] <jsgotangco> sure
[02:33] <ogra> as you like, you asked for it :)
[02:36] <jsgotangco> ok brb
[03:31] <hieuvo> how to uninstall EDUBUNTU safely from my system please
[03:31] <Bluekuja> back jon i know it hehehe,it was a personal message^^
[03:31] <ogra> just install something else that formats the disk ?
[03:32] <hieuvo> but grub was on that partition
[03:32] <Bluekuja> i have to go ,oliver ,jon see you later
[03:32] <Bluekuja> cya ;)
[03:32] <ogra> hieuvo, and ? if you format it newly that will get overwritten by the new OS you install
[03:33] <hieuvo> ogra, if i only wipe it without install new OS...hmm will my fc and xp still works?
[03:34] <ogra> as long as you run the respective grub update tool of your new distro (fc4), it will
[03:34] <ogra> s/fc4/fc/
[03:47] <JaneW> ogra: did you reply to silb's edubuntu install instructions request?
[03:49] <ogra> not yet
[03:49] <ogra> will do so today
[03:53] <JaneW> ogra: please, else we'll face the wrath
[04:52] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: for the record, my irc client doesn't hilight 'jon' :)
[04:53] <ogra> highvoltage, so fix that then :P
[04:54] <highvoltage> ogra: i don't want it to hilight that
[04:54] <highvoltage> :P
[05:05] <highvoltage> cheers, #edubuntu!
[05:32] <pygi> ogra: are you here this time? :)
[05:32] <ogra> yes
[05:32] <ogra> very busy  preparing the betas release
[05:32] <ogra> *beta
[05:33] <pygi> ogra: will talk after beta then
[05:40] <pygi> great Hedgemage
[05:40] <HedgeMage> :)
[05:46] <HedgeMage> Hmm... I don't think TT understood what I meant when I said I was working on the Edubuntu Cookbook... he brought me spatulas!
[05:47] <pygi> :-D
[08:11] <lns> what's up everyone!
[08:12] <lns> hehe
[08:12] <lns> Has anyone had any issues with the users/groups GUI in flight 6, where it is either extremely slow or not loading at all?
[08:13] <lns> HedgeMage - ?
[08:13] <HedgeMage> Sent in a resume on a whim for a really awesome job I didn't think I had a chance at... they called back this morning to ask for my references/other paperwork.
[08:13] <HedgeMage> So, they must find me worth considering, at least.
[08:14] <lns> nice!
[08:14] <lns> what is the position?
[08:14] <HedgeMage> I wasn't really ready to look yet, but the timing's not awful... I might have to send my son to stay with my parents for a little while if I take this job though
[08:14] <HedgeMage> only a few weeks
[08:14] <HedgeMage> "Open Source Implementation Specialist"  helping a local university migrate to open source, supoorting it for the uni, and contributing back to the projects they use.
[08:15] <HedgeMage> Very very awesome job.
[08:15] <lns> ooooOOOOOO
[08:15] <lns> very cool!!
[08:15] <HedgeMage> Thanks!
[08:15] <HedgeMage> Cross your fingers for me
[08:15] <HedgeMage> I'm going to be a huge bundle of nerves until I know for sure if I have it or not
[08:16] <lns> Haha.. =) you have nothing to worry about
[08:16] <HedgeMage> I'll miss TT, but he loves my parents' farm, and my mom is a teacher so she'd be on summer break when he goes, and she, my dad, and my brother really miss him.
[08:16] <HedgeMage> And it's only for a few weeks.
[08:17] <HedgeMage> My family is very cool... I know not everyone can send off their kid for a few weeks and not have to worry.
[08:17] <lns> yeah exactly
[08:21] <HedgeMage> so, if I'm a lunatic for the next few days, please forgive me.
[08:24] <lns> Is there anything specific about the job you're going to be doing, that you know of?
[08:24] <lns> i.e. distro use, etc?
[08:25] <HedgeMage> yep one sec I'll elaborate once I get TT some lunch
[08:26] <HedgeMage> I think he's about to eat my couch 8P
[08:26] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: i'll hold thumbs for you for that job
[08:26] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: i mean, cross my fingers, sorry I think the holding thumbs thing is a south african expression :)
[08:28] <lns> So does anyone have any insight on the users/groups gui issue i'm having?
[08:31] <HedgeMage> back
[08:31] <HedgeMage> lns: not I, sorry
[08:32] <HedgeMage> highvoltage: Thanks, it is not one I was familiar with, but I am now :)
[08:32] <lns> Ok here's another Q
[08:32] <lns> Do you guys know how to change the default desktop background for all new users?
[08:33] <highvoltage> HedgeMage: nice to be able to talk to you for a change, btw. I see your name everywhere but i'm hardly ever on IRC at the same time as you :)
[08:34] <HedgeMage> :)
[08:35] <HedgeMage> lns: umm, you can make a gnome conf and put it in /etc/skel (something like that) to make it the default for new users.
[08:36] <lns> HedgeMage, is it safe to create a new, 'template' user and modify everything i want? or is there any per-user associations with the gnome conf files?
[08:37] <HedgeMage> lns: I *think* that works... but I'm not a huge gnome person so I may be wrong
[08:37] <Bluekuja> hi HedgeMage :)
[08:37] <HedgeMage> hi Bluekuja
[08:37] <Bluekuja> how are you man?
[08:38] <HedgeMage> :)
[08:39] <Bluekuja> oh
[08:39] <Bluekuja> sorry then :)
[08:39] <lns> i was gonna say, with all that bouncing around, you make a unique male ;)
[08:40] <Burgwork> HedgeMage, take a look at Sabayon if you want to edit user profiles
[08:40] <Burgwork> lns, ^
[08:41] <HedgeMage> Here's what I know about the job so far: they have (or want to have, not sure which), a LAMP server running Sakai (an opensource replacement for Blackboard)... and are looking for more places to move from proprietary stuff to open source.
[08:41] <lns> Burgwork, thanks!
[08:41] <HedgeMage> lns: Heh... I only bounce when very excited... I'm a bit of a tomboy
[08:42] <lns> haha HedgeMage
[08:42] <HedgeMage> Bluekuja: no need to be sorry, I'm on IRC, and not because my boyfriend dragged me, so 90% chance I'm male :P
[08:42] <HedgeMage> I just happen to belong to the other 10%
[08:43] <lns> Burgwork, is Sabayon installed by default in Edubuntu, or does it have plans for so?
[08:43] <Burgwork> lns, no and no
[08:43] <Bluekuja> hehe yeah
[08:43] <Bluekuja> :)
[08:44] <lns> Burgwork, why no plans? is it too early in dev still?
[08:44] <Burgwork> because it is an admin tool
[08:44] <Burgwork> but for edubuntu, it might be a sane thing to install
[08:44] <Burgwork> ogra, ^
[08:45] <lns> that's definitely what i'm thinking as well
[08:45] <ogra> if it would work right, we'd already include it
[08:45] <Burgwork> heh
[08:45] <lns> ;)
[08:45] <Burgwork> what are the issues you have had?
[08:45] <lns> ok so i won't install it on my production network!
[08:45] <ogra> it breaks ssh logins
[08:45] <Burgwork> ah, cool
[08:46] <lns> ugh..good thing i found that out!
[08:46] <lns> thanks ogra
[08:46] <ogra> and if you could use it via ssh, you would have no fun because xnest doesnt work through ssh tunnels
[08:46] <Burgwork> has that been communicated upstream?
[08:46] <ogra> not yet
[08:46] <ogra> menu system and user management are in my focus for dapper+1
[08:46] <Burgwork> upstream is pretty quiet for sabayon, so it might be something we might have to fix ourselves, in dapper+!
[08:46] <Burgwork> sabayon is written in python
[08:47] <ogra> aside from ltsp local devices and kiosk mode
[08:49] <lns> sorry for the bombardment of questions
[08:50] <lns> how about running apps (like TuxType, which is very slow over the network due to 3d graphics) locally on the thin clients? is there a howto for this?
[08:52] <ogra> nope, but you can use the ltsp.org docs for local apps
[08:53] <lns> ok awesome
[08:53] <ogra> it will be possible to easily enable it in any future release
[08:53] <lns> ooo, ltsp-4.2 update 1 out yesterday
[08:54] <lns> that's awesome news ogra
[08:54] <ogra> but its very low priority on my list currently (patches against ltsp gracefully accepted indeed :) )
[08:55] <lns> Hehe
[09:21] <lns> Do we have a list of applications that are included with Edubuntu that are not suitable for an LTSP environment and should be run locally? If not, I can compile a list.
[09:21] <ogra> that'd be nice
[09:21] <lns> cool, i'll get on that
[09:21] <ogra> i only can tell sabayon from the top of my head
[09:21] <ogra> (but thats based on xnest being broken)
[09:21] <lns> yeah
[09:22] <lns> I've seen a few games as being the only ones so far, and/or most video streaming/editing apps
[09:22] <ogra> video players are generally sluggish over ltsp
[09:22] <lns> yep
[09:22] <ogra> and one of the tuxgames ...
[09:22] <lns> maybe some sort of install option for configuring these apps to run on the thin client (provided enough ram)?
[09:23] <lns> yeah TuxType is a big one
[09:23] <lns> and i forgot the name of it, but the one where you're shooting math problems with tux
[09:23] <ogra> yeh, i wasnt sure if it was math or type
[09:23] <lns> yeah both
[09:23] <ogra> i think one was still half way usable (math ? ) the other wasnt usable at all
[09:24] <ogra> they cost us a lot of diskspace ... i wonder if its whrth keeping them at all
[09:24] <lns> I think so
[09:24] <lns> TuxType is a cool program, and I know my customer really wanted it
[09:24] <lns> it's the only good typing tutor for linux that i can find
[09:25] <lns> and a typing tutor is definitely necessary for edubuntu IMHO
[09:33] <highvoltage> lns: tuxmaths?
[09:34] <drbreen>  i have a problem. my ltsp diskless clients do take input from the keyboard but take way to long to process it. when only the ltsp login manager (kubuntu) is loaded, everything works fine but when kde is loaded it takes forever even for the x server to process crtl+alt+del
[09:34] <highvoltage> if tuxtype just drops the animation in the beginning, it would already be much, much more thin client friendly.
[09:34] <highvoltage> drbreen: what do you mean with ltsp login manager (kubuntu)?
[09:35] <highvoltage> do you mean you're using KDM?
[09:35] <highvoltage> or is it kubuntu with an apt-get installed ltsp?
[09:35] <drbreen> i use ltsp on kubuntu
[09:35] <drbreen> thats what i mean
[09:35] <drbreen> i installed it so that its now like edubuntu, i suppose
[09:36] <lns> highvoltage, tuxmath is one of them i believe - the one where Tux is shooting a cannon/gun at math problems in space
[09:38] <Burgwork> pyweek just finished and there are good puzzle games in there
[09:39] <drbreen> can anyone help me here ?
[09:39] <drbreen> it is "kubuntu with an apt-got ltsp"
[09:39] <lns> I just exited from TuxType, the whole game is very slow over the net, not just the intro
[09:40] <highvoltage> lns: yep
[09:40] <lns> awesome music thou ;)
[09:41] <lns> drbreen, the first thing that comes to mind is network / server load, but that's just me
[09:41] <lns> what are the server specs?
[09:41] <drbreen> up today everything worked just fine
[09:41] <drbreen> err
[09:41] <drbreen> until today
[09:42] <lns> drbreen, so what has changed?
[09:42] <drbreen> after holidays someone rebooted the server
[09:42] <drbreen> nothing
[09:42] <drbreen> i just did an spt-get upgrade but i did not reboot
[09:42] <drbreen> thats my problem
[09:42] <drbreen> i disconnected the wlan access point, too
[09:43] <drbreen> but dont know
[09:43] <drbreen> ah
[09:43] <drbreen> and i am typing at the server and it is fast like ever
[09:43] <lns> did you do your 'rm -r /opt/ltsp/i386' and 'build-ltsp-client' after the apt-get upgrade?
[09:43] <drbreen> why should i ?
[09:44] <lns> because your ltsp system is not updated with apt-get
[09:44] <drbreen> ah thanks
[09:44] <lns> you have to rebuild it
[09:44] <drbreen> i have to learn much
[09:44] <lns> =) I just learned this last week
[09:44] <lns> but first reboot the server
[09:44] <lns> that was my mistake - and i built the ltsp environment with old stuff, and when i rebooted things didn't match and it was a total nightmare
[09:45] <lns> also (correct me if i'm wrong ogra/others) you need to do an 'ltsp-update-kernels' if the kernel was updated?
[09:45] <drbreen> is there an easy way to see if my network is overloaded ?
[09:45] <ogra> lns, yup
[09:46] <drbreen> it ltsp-build-cient not the other way round
[09:46] <drbreen> is it ?
[09:46] <ogra> but only if you updated it in the chroot
[09:46] <lns> drbreen, ping is a simple way of seeing if your network "might" be overloaded
[09:46] <lns> ogra, do you have to do that manually?
[09:47] <ogra> not if you build it plain ...
[09:47] <ogra> i.e. with ltsp-build-client
[09:47] <drbreen> ok wait
[09:47] <lns> oh ok
[09:47] <ogra> but that shoult be necessary only once
[09:47] <drbreen> i get ping times of ca. 0.2 to 0.3 ms
[09:48] <ogra> afetr that you can sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:48] <drbreen> is that fast enough ?
[09:48] <lns> oooo crap i wish i knew that! hehe
[09:49] <lns> drbreen, yeah that's nominal, as long as you're not pinging yourself
[09:49] <drbreen> hrhr no
[09:49] <drbreen> i am pinging the router
[09:50] <lns> ogra, is that the recommended way to upgrade the ltsp env? with chroot/apt-get instead of ltsp-build-client?
[09:51] <drbreen> i have to go now
[09:52] <drbreen> bye
[09:52] <ogra> lns, its only required from breezy to dapper to rebuild it (not really required, but recommended since most speedups are done by build-client)
[09:52] <lns> ogra, ok cool
[09:52] <lns> good stuff
[09:58] <Bluekuja> ogra: do you know a guy called george kiptalam?
[09:58] <ogra> nope
[09:59] <Bluekuja> ok
[09:59] <Bluekuja> is approved on the team
[09:59] <Bluekuja> i have never heard him
[09:59] <Bluekuja> ok i deactivate
[09:59] <Bluekuja> him
[10:00] <Bluekuja> ok done
[10:03] <Bluekuja> HedgeMage: News from freenode staff?
[10:04] <lucasvo> ogra: what do you think about proto.edubuntu.org?
[10:04] <lucasvo> don't you think it could look a little bit more mature?
[10:04] <ogra> i like it
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Bluekuja: news on what?
[10:05] <Bluekuja> hosting side
[10:05] <HedgeMage> Bluekuja: ooh, yeah, brain cramp... drop me a /msg
[10:06] <ogra> lucasvo, i find it quite good as it is already
[10:06] <ogra> what do you think is immature there ?
[10:09] <lucasvo> too many gradients and bright colors
[10:09] <lucasvo> compared to ubuntu
[10:11] <ogra> its the same colorset
[10:11] <lucasvo> what do you mean, colorset?
[10:11] <ogra> its identical to dappers colors
[10:12] <lucasvo> yeah, but in dapper the colors aren't as "present" as on the site
[10:12] <lucasvo> they are only in the titlebar, not all over the screen
[10:14] <ogra> i dont mind them being more present in the website, but we should discuss it on the next meeting probably
[10:15] <lucasvo> it's the day after tomorrow?
[10:18] <lucasvo> wow, shit, I just accidetally installed edubuntu-desktop on my server
[10:20] <highvoltage> ogra: you're totally right :)
[10:22] <lucasvo> highvoltage: when is the meeting?
[10:22] <highvoltage> lucasvo: the edubuntu one? tomorrow at 12UTC
[10:23] <lucasvo> crap
[10:23] <lucasvo> hm, I won't be able to come in before 13UTC
[10:24] <lucasvo> so it is actually 14:00 in berlin, isn't it?
[10:24] <highvoltage> lucasvo: yep
[10:24] <highvoltage> 14:00 in berlin
[10:30] <Bluekuja> highvoltage: im at school at that hour ,how can i connect to irc?
[10:31] <Bluekuja> i tried before
[10:31] <Bluekuja> but cant connect outside
[10:32] <HedgeMage> awww... you folks always have meetings when I'm sleeping!
[10:32] <Bluekuja> hehe
[10:32] <Bluekuja> what time in your country?
[10:32] <HedgeMage> 12 UTC is 4am here
[10:32] <Bluekuja> o
[10:33] <Bluekuja> where do you live?
[10:33] <HedgeMage> The west coast of the USA
[10:33] <HedgeMage> (WA state)
[10:33] <Bluekuja> ah yes
[10:33] <Bluekuja> nice place isnt it?
[10:33] <HedgeMage> yep, I like it :)
[10:33] <HedgeMage> may stay here.
[10:33] <Bluekuja> ;)
[10:33] <Bluekuja> hehe
[10:34] <Bluekuja> i have to read something before the cc meeting
[10:34] <Bluekuja> 30 min to it
[10:34] <Bluekuja> so brb
[10:34] <Bluekuja> :)
[10:38] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: there's a java applet called WLirc, which i use to connect to irc from phone
[10:38] <Bluekuja> oh
[10:38] <Bluekuja> where i can find it?
[10:40] <highvoltage> Bluekuja: i'm not sure where i got it, you might have to google a bit
[10:40] <Bluekuja> ok
[10:40] <Bluekuja> i just need something like that
[10:40] <Bluekuja> to make it working
[11:03] <JaneW> Bluekuja: I am here now, may not stay for the full hour though
[11:04] <JaneW> hope they 'do' you soon
[11:04] <Bluekuja> thanks you very much jane
[11:04] <Bluekuja> :)
[11:04] <Bluekuja> we are still waiting for the council ,i hope they will come soon
[11:16] <highvoltage> ogra: btw, would you mind giving me your cell phone number?
[11:16] <JaneW> gah this doesn;t look good, ITO CC
[11:16] <JaneW> ogra: beware another phone stalker!
[11:16] <ogra> haha
[11:21] <highvoltage> hehe
[11:21] <highvoltage> JaneW: i've got your number too!
[11:21] <JaneW> argh
[11:23] <highvoltage> JaneW: ssssshhhh! you're giving my game away here! :P
[11:23] <ogra> JaneW, so he's secretly related to flint ?
[11:24] <JaneW> it seems so...
[11:24] <ogra> wow, the installation report on the ML is great
[11:25] <lucasvo> ogra: the latest one?
[11:25] <ogra> yep
[11:25] <ogra> i'm courious about the rest, when he has time again to test more stuff
[11:25] <highvoltage> ML?
[11:25] <lucasvo> people always misinterprete the missing Mircosoft support
[11:25] <ogra> thats really good QA feedback
[11:26] <ogra> i agree with him that we need a good AD integration
[11:26] <lucasvo> it's not only that people don't like MS, also they don't make it real easy to OSS folks
[11:26] <ogra> but that should be done *right*
[11:26] <ogra> so on a system level in ubuntu, its not edubuntu specific
[11:27] <lucasvo> I even failed with LDAP on a homogene environment, don't begin to talk about that crap, I hate it :)
[11:27] <ogra> highvoltage, Mailing List
[11:27] <lucasvo> ogra: isn't something like this planed for dapper+1
[11:27] <highvoltage> ah
[11:27] <ogra> lucasvo, there is a spec
[11:27] <lucasvo> yeah, I think I read that
[11:29] <lucasvo> what do you think of the "Popup"?
[11:29] <lucasvo> maybe one could make the firefox startpage a little bit more specific and start up FF on first login
[11:30] <lucasvo> ogra: btw, is Mark planning to employ more edubuntu devs?
[11:31] <JaneW> just as I was about to leave...
[11:32] <ogra> lucasvo, i guess aat some point, yes
[11:32] <lucasvo> some point. :)
[11:32] <AndreaVeri> ogra: new members will be discussed on edubuntu meeting?
[11:32] <cbx33> is ther estill a need for edubuntu artwork?
[11:32] <ogra> but there are other areas that are higher priorized than the distro
[11:33] <ogra> AndreaVeri, we'll talk about it tomorrow in the edubuntu meeting ... JaneW and i have a rough concept
[11:33] <cbx33> what time is the meeting tomorrow
[11:33] <AndreaVeri> perfect
[11:33] <AndreaVeri> 12:00
[11:33] <AndreaVeri> utc
[11:33] <cbx33> meaning I think 13:00 here
[11:33] <AndreaVeri> 14:00 for me and highvoltage
[11:33] <cbx33> hehe
[11:33] <ogra> 14:00 in germany as well
[11:34] <cbx33> excellent
[11:34] <cbx33> I hope to be there
[11:34] <cbx33> thought I'll be at work
[11:34] <cbx33> I think it's important for me to try to attend meetings if I'm going to get more involved in edubuntu
[11:43] <lucasvo> cbx33: hwo do you want to get more involved in edubuntu?
[11:44] <ogra> lucasvo, cbx33 is heavily working in -motu to learn packaging and get to motu status ;)
[11:44] <cbx33> lucasvo, I've just become a member of the testing team
[11:44] <lucasvo> oh, ok
[11:44] <cbx33> I work in a school
[11:44] <lucasvo> I am still in school :)
[11:44] <cbx33> and I'm pushing ubuntu and edubuntu as much as I can
[11:44] <cbx33> we have our own mini LUG here
[11:44] <cbx33> I'll do anything people need me to do
[11:44] <cbx33> I can turn my hnd to most things
[11:45] <cbx33> anything that comes up just gimme a shout and I'll do my best
[11:45] <lucasvo> cbx33: youthLUG?
[11:45] <cbx33> indeed
[11:45] <cbx33> lucasvo, how'd you know about that :p
[11:45] <lucasvo> so you wrote the mail, a few minutes ago?
[11:46] <cbx33> ah indeed i did
[11:46] <cbx33> :p
[11:46] <lucasvo> it's too bad I am already too old for edubuntu
[11:46] <cbx33> that's a relief, i thought youthlug was getting known faster than I knew :p
[11:46] <ogra> lucasvo, ??
[11:46] <JaneW> lucasvo: you aren't!
[11:47] <cbx33> well, if there are somethings you want tested by kids specifically
[11:47] <cbx33> I can arrange that
[11:47] <cbx33> :p
[11:47] <JaneW> cbx33: great
[11:47] <lucasvo> ogra: yeah, I would rather have some tools to work with complex numbers :)
[11:47] <lucasvo> than gcompris
[11:47] <ogra> lucasvo, thats great, you should help LaserJock in dapper+1
[11:47] <cbx33> as I say I have youth LUg and some of the guys in that really really intellgent, some not so
[11:47] <cbx33> there's a good range
[11:48] <lucasvo> ogra: ok, what's he doing?
[11:48] <ogra> we'll focus more on science in the next releases
[11:48] <cbx33> and hopefully we're going to be interviewing you guys at some point
[11:48] <cbx33> for youthlug radio
[11:48] <lucasvo> JaneW: yeah, I enjoy the LTSP
[11:48] <lucasvo> the problem is my school has too much money and can afford 100 G5 Powermac
[11:48] <cbx33> lucasvo, indeed a problem
[11:49] <cbx33> we have crappy i386 here...and a tonne of them
[11:49] <cbx33> I'm making the most of them :D
[11:49] <lucasvo> so they actually aren't forced to use free software or ltsp
[11:50] <cbx33> I've been a linuxer for a few years now
[11:50] <cbx33> but almost all new software I use now is open source
[11:50] <ogra> hey, 100 G5s would make great thin clients and you could build a huuge SAN array with the disks :)
[11:50] <cbx33> ogra, sounds like a kickass plan
[11:50] <ogra> heh
[11:50] <lucasvo> lol, yeah
[11:50] <ogra> a pretty expensive one :)
[11:50] <cbx33> i hope to have about 80 machines onedubuntu soon
[11:51] <lucasvo> ogra: powerhungry as well
[11:51] <ogra> heh, that as well ...
[11:51] <ogra> but its warm in winter :)
[11:51] <cbx33> where is the documentation on LTSP in edubuntu?
[11:51] <cbx33> i havn't looked yet
[11:52] <cbx33> but wanted to get a head start tomorrow :D
[11:52] <ogra> on my disk ... not published yet
[11:52] <cbx33> oh ogra ....
[11:52] <ogra> only partially written
[11:52] <cbx33> need a hand with that.......?
[11:52] <lucasvo> ogra: doing backups?
[11:52] <cbx33> if you need a proofer just shout.....or a doc tester
[11:52] <lucasvo> cbx33: I did it once, was actually quite easy
[11:52] <ogra> cbx33, its basically just writing manpages for the scripts and the like
[11:53] <cbx33> well the offer is there ogra
[11:53] <ogra> look at the scripts and their options then :)
[11:53] <lucasvo> cbx33: what's the problem with ltsp?
[11:53] <cbx33> my english isn't bad - i write articles for the linux gazette sometimes
[11:53] <cbx33> lucasvo, no problem...just no clue where to start
[11:55] <cbx33> and as i mentioned in my mail, if i knew edubuntu had it....i'd already be using it
[11:57] <ogra> oh, you werent there before ;)
 wow, the installation report on the ML is great
[11:57] <lucasvo> this kubuntu.de is ridiculous
[11:57] <cbx33> thank you ogra
[11:57] <ogra> ^^^ i said that shortly before you joined ;)
[11:57] <cbx33> well, you can expect more on the way
[11:58] <cbx33> I like to be as helpful as i can
[11:58] <ogra> yeah, its really good QA feedback
[11:59] <cbx33> do you have many other people on the team who work in education?
[11:59] <ogra> nope
[11:59] <ogra> only the gusy subscribed to the mailing list
[12:00] <lucasvo> waa, already 12 'o clock
[12:00] <ogra> *guys
[12:01] <cbx33> nn lucasvo
[12:04] <lucasvo> cbx33: not yet gone, but I soon will :)
[12:05] <cbx33> heh
[12:05] <cbx33> I'm off soon