 Pah!! I am such a silly billy, You need a sharing link to be able to add yourself to that poll
 https://doodle.com/poll/mt2day3u6i566s4n
 Hopefully, that will let you add your name and select options, sorry I did it from the app on my phone originally
 We got some very positive response to the questionaire about starting a Kubuntu Newsletter.
 I've sent it out again to the users list, to see if we can get a little more input, but it looks like the community would like one
 OK, got to dash, back later


[14:20] <dalurka> Hi does anybody know where where the initrd for the live isos are generated? I would like some kernel modules added to the installer
[14:22] <dalurka> I'm trying to pxe with a usb-c nic and it fails unless I manually modify the initrd to add the modules.
[14:23] <dalurka> if I'm asking in the wrong channel please point me to where to ask
[14:44] <xnox> dalurka:  awwww
[14:44] <xnox> dalurka:  do you have a list of modules?
[14:45] <xnox> they should be added to the "networking" set of modules in initramfs-tools; which then together with casper would be picked up by livecd-rootfs to add them into the installer initrds.
[14:45] <xnox> dalurka:  because people who do netboot / network attached rootfs, and are over usb-c nic would want those too.
[14:47] <xnox> looks like locally i need r8153_ecm and usbnet
[14:47] <xnox> and mii
[14:48] <xnox> dalurka:  if you have a list of modules, it would be best to open a bug report on launchpad against initramfs-tools
[14:48] <xnox> i.e. $ ubuntu-bug initramfs-tools
[14:48] <xnox> as it defines a list of modules which are meant to cover "networking" for booting purposes.
[14:50] <dalurka> everything in kernel/drivers/net/usb seems to be missing
[14:50] <dalurka> I've seen multiple questions about this all over the net
[14:53] <dalurka> xnox: so the thing is it works if I boot from usb as it is packaged in the root squashfs :)
[14:53] <dalurka> but it just does not work with pxe
[14:54] <dalurka> any way I'll see if I can file a bug for initramfs-tools if that is the correct place then
[14:56] <xnox> dalurka:  i can glob include all of net/usb and hope for the best.
[14:56] <dalurka> yea that would solve it
[14:56] <xnox> dalurka:  once that lands in jammy daily builds, will you be able to testboot jammy to confirm "it works", and if it does, we can figure out to SRU that to focal, to hopefully have the next 20.04 point release & dailies working.
[14:56] <xnox> dalurka:  it seems to be ever increasing demand for usbc netboot.
[14:58] <dalurka> I could probably test boot for you yes. but I'm mainly after 20.04 and 22.04 later
[15:00] <dalurka> xnox: btw those drivers are in linux-modules-extra.. maybe that's why they are missing?
[15:02] <dalurka> xnox: also most new slimmer laptps are missing ethernet phy
[15:03] <xnox> dalurka:  can you please explain "ethernet phy" bit? and those drivers in linux-modules-extra is ok.
[15:03] <dalurka> ethernet phy as in a physical ethernet nic on the motherboard
[15:03] <xnox> dalurka:  linux-modules contains things needed everywhere virtual machines & baremetal. linux-modules-extra contains things that are only needed on baremetal.
[15:04] <xnox> dalurka:  doh, yeah, most laptops do not have ethernets anymore =) just usbc docking stations or what not.
[15:04] <dalurka> aha! I thought those were just some "extra" modules and did not make the physical connection
[15:05] <dalurka> speaking of docks... how I worked around the issue at first before I patched the initrd was to connect a realtek usb-c nic which could pxe boot into the initrd.. but there it would stop and would not be able to continue to download the .iso for the installer
[15:06] <dalurka> having a thunderbolt dock connected allowed for a quick rj45 hotswap to continue as that nic had a driver in initrd
[15:07] <dalurka> very annoying yet quite fun hack
[15:40] <dalurka> xnox: when would you need me testing this?
[15:53] <xnox> dalurka:  if you have opened a bug report, you can subscribe and get an email about it.
[15:53] <xnox> dalurka:  it will be late this week, or next week.
[15:53] <xnox> dalurka:  otheriwise i can ping you here...
[15:53] <dalurka> I'm opening the bug as we speak
[15:54] <xnox> awesome! paste the bug number here, once you have it.
[15:59] <dalurka> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/initramfs-tools/+bug/1950996
[16:01] <dalurka> xnox: ^


[02:21] <nOStahl> hi guys
[02:21] <nOStahl> been few days
[02:21] <nOStahl> any of you running on an hp touchpad?
[02:26] <twb> What is your real question?
[02:28] <nOStahl> that was it.
[09:25] <tapemachine> hiiii
[10:00] <janimo> rbasak, I got openmpi from experimental building.
[10:05] <rbasak> janimo, awesome, thank you!
[10:05] <janimo> rbasak, sending you the debdiff
[10:05] <janimo> it needs more thought on the packaging side
[10:07] <janimo> rbasak, sent.
[10:07]  * rbasak looks
[10:21] <rbasak> janimo, if you're still there: looks good, thanks for getting to the bottom of it! Debian experimental is FTBFS as well, how do you feel about sending this to debbugs?
[10:21] <rbasak> janimo: then maybe we could keep the delta small?
[12:25] <sebjan> ppisati: I uploaded a fix for Bug #917264
[12:25] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 917264 in linux-ti-omap4 "HDMI resolutions are not detected on Pandaboard A4 (Omap 4430 ES2.3 silicon)" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/917264
[12:26] <sebjan> It applies exclusively to Oneiric, but I am not sure how to specify that on the bug report?
[12:28] <ppisati> sebjan: you nominate it just for the Oneiric series
[12:28] <ppisati> sebjan: i'll do that
[12:30] <sebjan> ppisati: I just can't find the option for that :) where is it?
[12:31] <ppisati> sebjan: i did it for you, but the next time just press the "Nominate for series" link
[12:31] <ppisati> and from there choose to which series this bug apply
[12:37] <ppisati> sebjan: btw, you marked it as "fix ommitted", where did you send/apply it?
[12:38] <sebjan> ppisati: I can't find this option on the bug page...
[12:38] <ppisati> sebjan: i mean, is it for the ubuntu oneiric/ti-omap4 branch? and if yes, do you plan to send it to the kernel mailing? or do you want me to apply it?
[12:38] <ppisati> sebjan: wait
[12:38] <sebjan> ppisati: I attached the patch to the bug description, is this enough for fix commited?
[12:39] <sebjan> (and it was tested on top of 1206.15 on a Panda A4 board)
[12:40] <sebjan> ppisati: it is for ti-omap4 branch only and yes, it's for applying it to this branch only
[12:42] <ppisati> sebjan: http://people.canonical.com/~ppisati/sebjan-promote.png
[12:43] <sebjan> ppisati: I don't have this link :'(. I must be missing some privileges?
[12:43] <ppisati> sebjan: ah, good question...
[12:55] <rsalveti> sebjan: do you know if this patch is also applied at the linaro tilt tree?
[12:56] <rsalveti> I wonder if we should also ask agreen to apply it at his 3.1 branch
[12:56] <sebjan> rsalveti: it is not, I just recently pushed it to my tree. And yes, it shall go to Andy's tree. I'll email him right now (I have some other updates for him)
[12:57] <rsalveti> sebjan: great, can you also add me at cc? I want to make sure these fixes are included at our 12.01 release that will be out next week
[12:57] <sebjan> rsalveti: sure!
[12:57] <rsalveti> sebjan: thanks!
[12:58] <rsalveti> ndec: are we having the call today?
[12:58]  * ogra_ thinks we do
[12:58] <ndec> yes
[12:59]  * ndec wonders if i forgot to setup the conference call number...
[12:59] <rsalveti> great, joining
[12:59] <ogra_> there was a new passcode in my mail
[12:59] <ndec> looks like it's working.
[13:00] <ppisati> can't find the new passcode, can anyone post it to in pvt? thanks
[13:02] <ogra_> ppisati, posted in the other channel
[16:27] <tapemachine> yo
[21:07] <eFfeM> what is the best way to get sources for a particular program on ubuntu-arm (in my case ifdown)
[21:08] <eFfeM> I get an error message with ifdown on this line in /etc/network/intefaces (server 11.10 on omap4, same line works on  server 11.10 x86):
[21:08] <eFfeM> iface default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev eth0  proto static
[21:08] <eFfeM> too many parameters
[21:11] <infinity> eFfeM: Err, that works on x86?  Really?
[21:11] <eFfeM> yes
[21:12] <infinity> eFfeM: But "default via <IP_ADDRESS> dev eth0  proto static" is iproute output.
[21:12] <infinity> Like, what you'd see from "ip ro show | grep default"
[21:12] <infinity> It looks nothing like an interfaces(5) stanza.
[21:12] <eFfeM> infinity: you are right, tried ifdown on the x86 box and it is indeed not recognized
[21:13] <eFfeM> trying to migrate some sw from x86 to omap and ran into this
[21:13] <infinity> I assure you that ifupdown on arm and x86 are identical. :)
[21:13] <infinity> So, yes, as you've noted, that's an illegal stanza for both.
[21:14] <eFfeM> infinity: they are not really identical:
[21:14] <infinity> The sources are.
[21:14] <eFfeM> x86: /sbin/ifdown: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.15, stripped
[21:14] <eFfeM> arm: /sbin/ifdown: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, stripped
[21:14] <infinity> But sure, anything compiled can be different if the toolchain breaks it. :P
[21:15] <eFfeM> 2.6.15 vs 1.6.16 might be different src
[21:15] <infinity> No...
[21:15] <eFfeM> but guess I need to work on the interfaces file
[21:15] <infinity> Just different toolchains.
[21:15] <infinity> dpkg -l ifupdown
[21:15] <infinity> You should have the same version on both.
[21:16] <infinity> jcrigby: I haven't had a chance to play with your mx5 kernels yet.  Have you booted either of them yourself?
[21:16] <eFfeM> infinity: yeup, boht are 0.7-alpha5
[21:44] <eFfeM> infinity: the bug was indeed in the code I was trying to port. fixed it. Thanks for your info as that pushed me into the right direction!
[22:09] <kkerwin> Hi, does anyone know of a howto in installing ubuntu arm on a Pogopug (Sheevaplug/Dockstar NAS device) via usb?
[22:12] <GrueMaster> kkerwin: Is the device armv7?  I don't think they are.
[22:15] <eFfeM> kkerwin: these are armv5 devices I think the latest ubuntu version supported is 9.04 or so
[22:15] <kkerwin> Ok.
[22:15] <eFfeM> so either use the latest version of ubuntu that supports armv5 or use debian as that is still supports armv5
[22:16] <kkerwin> Do I have to build packages on a separate computer, or are their pre-built packages for most things (file servers, etc).
[22:16] <k1l> kkerwin: which device exactly?
[22:16] <kkerwin> PogoplugV2
[22:16] <kkerwin> s/their/there/
[22:16] <eFfeM> dropbear on arm gives me: /scripts/init-premount/dropbear: line 32: ipconfig: not found
[22:17] <eFfeM> grep tells this lives in /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/functions
[22:17] <eFfeM> functions:			ipconfig -t ${ROUNDTTT} "${DEVICE}"
[22:17] <eFfeM> how do I get to ipconfig in a linux shell script ???
[22:19] <k1l> kkerwin: https://wiki.xkyle.com/PogoplugV2
[22:19] <nevdull> `ifconfig -a` ?
[22:19] <kkerwin> k1l: Oh thank you. Google hasn't been very helpful. Thanks so much.
[22:19] <kkerwin> I'll brb.
[22:23] <eFfeM> nevdull: ipconfig is in this script, not in my code
[22:27] <GrueMaster> kkerwin: The PogoplugV2 is ARMv5te.  We only support armv7.  Sorry.
[22:35] <kkerwin> GrueMaster: No worries. Would you recommend that I use Debian for the long run, or is ARMv5 support improving?
[22:36] <eFfeM> kkerwin: ubuntu decided to stop supporting v5
[22:37] <GrueMaster> Armv5 support is not on the the table for Ubuntu.  We simply do not have the manpower/resources to maintain & validate it.  It is a very hard strain right now supporting armel & armhf (both ar armv7).  Armel is slated to die after 12.04, if we can ensure armhf stability (we're very close).
[22:37] <eFfeM> GrueMaster: thanks, didn't know that (didn;t try armhf yet)
[22:37] <GrueMaster> Supporting armv5 would be like supporting x86 486 code.
[22:37] <eFfeM> true :-)
[22:37] <kkerwin> GrueMaster: Do you happen to know what Debian's outlook is on armv5?
[22:37] <kkerwin> Longterm?
[22:38] <GrueMaster> I'm personally not a debian person, but I understand they plan on supporting armv5 & armhf (armv7 only).
[22:38] <GrueMaster> I could be wrong though.
[22:39] <kkerwin> GrueMaster: Thank you. I'll see if I can find a simiar debian channel to this and ask there.
[22:39] <GrueMaster> (on the debian part, not on ubuntu).
[22:40] <k1l> wheezy is running ootb on my dockstar. and the page i posted looks like its easily running on your device. i am quite sure that is very well documented over the web
[22:41] <kkerwin> k1l: Thank you. What services are you running on the dockstar, if you don't mind me asking?


[13:13] <RaymondX> hi, anyone here using etrayz?
[14:08] <et0ne> tassadar_: thx for your multirom stuff, i did not realize that i was installing your stuff while i chattet with you ;)
[14:08] <tassadar_> you're welcome, does it work okay for you?
[14:13] <et0ne> yes and no... the cm image boots as main image and as rom with shared kernel but my ubuntu image does not...
[14:14] <tassadar_> touch or desktop ubuntu?
[14:14] <et0ne> desktop
[14:14] <et0ne> touch is next an then i'll try to get kali running
[14:16] <et0ne> i am using a N7 and was using the raring *.IMG from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/current/ ... maybe i just have to get the bootimg in there
[14:17] <tassadar_> what does it do?
[14:18] <et0ne> wait ...
[14:19] <et0ne> i need the kexec-hardboot patch
[14:19] <et0ne> which kernel should i patch... the cm-kernel of the main image i installed on that device?
[14:20] <tassadar_> yeah
[14:20] <tassadar_> there are prebuilt kernels in MultiROM thread, you can just grab that
[14:21] <et0ne> yes... but i am a paranoid user ... can i trust those bins?
[14:21] <et0ne> btw... ubuntu-touch sucks
[14:22] <et0ne> tassadar_: have you ever tried to get thist to run http://www.kali.org/downloads/ ?
[14:22] <tassadar_> you probably can, it should work
[14:22] <tassadar_> no
[14:23] <tassadar_> hm, that's another one of those hacking distributions
[14:23] <et0ne> bt i dead...
[14:23] <et0ne> it just got a new name ... like audithor died before
[14:24] <tassadar_> I saw some guys trying to get pwnpad working, but they need external network card anyway, because drivers for that wifi-card in n7 sucks
[14:26] <et0ne> no monitor mode?
[14:27] <et0ne> but pwnpad sounds interesting
[14:27] <tassadar_> yeah, something like that, I didn't look through that much
[14:28] <tassadar_> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2165656
[14:28] <et0ne> haha you are writing kernel patches... don't tell me you do not look throu that
[14:28] <et0ne> through
[14:28] <tassadar_> I'm not really interested in that
[14:28] <et0ne> ok
[14:32] <et0ne> they are selling that... nice...
[14:32] <et0ne> but too expensive
[14:33] <tassadar_> yeah, you can just download the ROM if you wanna
[14:35] <et0ne> they are using an android kernel... hmm do you know if they just run a chroot with all the crosscompiled bins
[14:35] <tassadar_> yes, they do
[14:40] <et0ne> ok then i'll start building my own image with kexec-fooo patch and play a litle with it... an i'll take a look at pwnpad... thx again...


[00:01] <mgrandi> do you have any hints on how to update the interface jelmer? I see that the object BaseRepo now has get_graph_walker(), but i don't see anything in the InterRemoteGitNonGitRepository that inherits from that object to get the walker
[00:10] <jelmer> mgrandi: sorry, not off the top of my head. It's been way too long since I've looked at that code in bzr-git
[00:10] <jelmer> IIRC that method moved from Repo to ObjectStore
[00:10] <jelmer> or the other way 'round
[00:10] <mgrandi> the other way around
[00:10] <mgrandi> i'll look at it, thanks anyway =)
[00:13] <jelmer> mgrandi: bzr-git is in dire need of a new maintainer, if you feel so inclined (-:
[00:13] <mgrandi> haha
[00:13] <mgrandi> i dunno if id be the best fit, but ill what happens =P


[21:09] <Batshua> My 10.04 install keeps hanging at the "choose timezone" page.  It doesn't matter if I'm online or not.  I've already asked twice at #ubuntu and it appears folks are ignoring me, so I ask you to look favorably upon me.
[21:16] <Patrickdk> exactly what disk are you installing with?
[21:18] <Batshua> It's … mythbuntu 10.04 64 bit?
[21:19] <Batshua> But I have the same problem with the regular ubuntu 10.04 64 bit.
[21:19] <Batshua> So I know it's not, like, a bad burn.
[21:19] <Patrickdk> I only have ubuntu 10.04.3 64/32 iso's
[21:19] <Patrickdk> I know those work fine, cause I test every single version of them
[21:20] <Batshua> Patrickdk: Where can I get one?
[21:20] <Batshua> I don't mind making another burn or 3.
[21:20] <Batshua> As long as I can install long term support 64 bit, I will be happy.
[21:20] <Patrickdk> what motherboard is it on?
[21:20] <Batshua> Some kinda Asus
[21:20] <Batshua> P8Z68-V LX
[21:20] <Patrickdk> just for fun, try disabling everything you can in the bios
[21:21] <Patrickdk> like the nic, and anything else
[21:21] <Batshua> It's on easy mode. Hold on, and I'll reboot her.
[21:21] <Batshua> This bios is totally different form what my last motherboard had.
[21:21] <Batshua> Like, bafflingly different.
[21:22] <Batshua> The dang thing has a GUI.
[21:22] <Batshua> Like, you can mouse around in it and stuff.  So weird.
[21:22] <Batshua> Hold on.
[21:22] <Batshua> Okay, I'm in.
[21:24] <Batshua> nic?
[21:29] <Batshua> I don't actually see anything like that, even in advanced mode.
[21:40] <Patrickdk> you don't have any motherboard nic's or stuff?
[21:41] <Batshua> Not as far as I can tell?
[21:51] <Batshua> I looked through everything in advanced settings.
[21:51] <Batshua> Or at least, as well as I can read.
[23:21]  * Batshua drops a pin


[17:06] <paddy> ciao sto scaricando lubundu dal sito su una chiavetta. posso chiedere aiuto sul tema del programma autoinstallante
[17:06] <paddy> Ovvero è sufficiente tutto quello che sto scaricando dal sito oppure devo aggiungere altro affinchè la chiavetta inserita nel mio vecchio pc faccia disco o si attivi avvii
[17:07] <paddy> sto scaricando da qui http://www.ubuntu-it.org/derivate/lubuntu
[17:07] <paddy> lubuntu
[17:07] <wxl> !it | paddy
[17:07] <paddy> ops..sorry i love you see you soon
[18:36] <fliegenpilzmann> Is it possible to have an remote session with a desktop session where the user locked the screen (using vino for example)?
[18:38] <wxl> fliegenpilzmann: i know that's possible with no machine with an admin account. and i think also with rdp with the user's credentials.
[18:44] <fliegenpilzmann> Thx, wxl! It seems to me it is not possible with vino. So I have to set up a RDP server. I will try this one.
[18:45] <lynorian> i3lcok?
[18:45] <lynorian> inside the remote machine?
[18:45] <lynorian> *i3lock
[18:48] <fliegenpilzmann> lynorian: No, I'm using the lubuntu on LTS 16.04 or so. By default it is another screen locker.
[18:49] <fliegenpilzmann> Have to check it. I don't know.
[18:49] <lynorian> no it works differently than most it locks inside the desktop session
[18:50] <lynorian> and then you have to enter your password to unlock without even going to say the display manager
[18:54] <fliegenpilzmann> ok, interesting
[20:59] <cimbakahn> Does anyone know where i can find these plugins?  They are not in synaptic.  gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly & gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad & gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
[21:00] <wxl> they're right there, cimbakahn http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=gstreamer
[21:00] <wxl> admittedly some of them (ffmpeg) are limited to a particular version
[21:01] <wxl> cimbakahn: and, please, next time pick one channel and post there and wait before moving onto the next one.
[21:04] <wxl> cimbakahn: i'm thinking you may be able to substitution gstreamer1.0-libav
[21:05] <wxl> cimbakahn: alternately there's a ppa out there
[21:05] <wxl> cimbakahn: ppa:mc3man/trusty-media
[21:05] <cimbakahn> wxl, Ok.
[21:05] <wxl> cimbakahn: oops ppa:mc3man/gstffmpeg-keep


[01:13] <sdquinn> Hi all.
[01:14] <LaserJock> hi
[01:14] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi
[01:14] <sdquinn> hi.
[01:15] <sdquinn> I used to work with the docteam a lot before Breezy, then I kind of..disappeared.
[01:20] <Madpilot> well, welcome back, then :P
[01:23] <sdquinn> Thank you. I also went through being grounded for a while, and an email hack, so..it's been interesting.
[01:46] <sdquinn> hey jerome.
[01:46] <sdquinn> it's been a while since i've seen you in these parts.
[01:47] <Madpilot> anyone around to help with a DocBook problem? Yelp is complaining, and I can't figure out why...
[01:47] <jsgotangco> sdquinn, mmmm? i'm always here, you're the one i haven't seen for quite a while :)
[01:48] <sdquinn> yeah. i know. i'm back.
[01:48] <Madpilot> I'm trying to clean up some of common-tasks.xml - just a sec while I pastebin things
[01:48] <sdquinn> after a gentoo run and being grounded.
[01:48] <sdquinn> hm, i may know the problem Madpilot
[01:49] <Madpilot> here we go: http://pastebin.com/551979
[01:50] <sdquinn> I'll be right back, after dinner.
[01:51] <jsgotangco> :)
[03:44] <Madpilot> common-tasks.xml diff sent to the list - last of the qandaset formatting is dead & gone
[06:15] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[06:16] <theCore> hello LaserJock
[06:18] <theCore> I'm trying to polish a little bit the `make' section
[06:21] <LaserJock> great
[06:21] <theCore> I missed something quite important to explain, how the `make' dependencies works
[06:22] <theCore> I'm thinking adding an image showing the dep tree
[06:23] <theCore> question: what is our target audience ?
[06:25] <theCore> the average linux guy or the `I know everything about Linux except how to make Debian package` type of guy ?
[06:33] <LaserJock> I think a little in between
[06:34] <LaserJock> I think we can assume that they pretty much know how to do a ./configure && make && make install
[06:37] <theCore> so, would it be better to strip the ``Basic Skills'' section and fill it with web references to read ?
[06:56] <LaserJock> theCore: I think that quick explinations with web references would be good. We really can't explain everything.
[06:56] <LaserJock> theCore: but since the debian/rules file is basically a Makefile it is nice to have a little something about them
[06:57] <LaserJock> theCore: I gotta get to bed. just send patches when you're done and we can always take stuff out later if we want. but try to include some web references
[06:57] <theCore> ok
[06:58] <theCore> good night
[06:59] <LaserJock> cya
[07:27] <spider-man> Does anyone know what package(s) contains C++ manpages (i.e. cout, cstring, etc)?
[07:28] <theCore> spider-man, that isn't really the place to ask that, but maybe I can help
[07:29] <theCore> search apt-cache the packages ending with -doc , you may find what you are looking for
[07:39] <spider-man> theCore: I have searched (apt-cache and google), and I've installed several packages so far nothing has worked. Where is the right place to ask?
[07:40] <theCore> spider-man, #ubuntu
[07:41] <theCore> are serching for a C++ guide ?
[07:41] <theCore> searching*
[08:06] <jsgotangco> hmmm support/faq page is scary
[08:07] <jsgotangco> 25 page down keys
[08:07] <Madpilot> which page?
[08:07] <jsgotangco> its like the FAQ to end all FAQs
[08:07] <jsgotangco> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq
[08:09] <Madpilot> lots of Warty or even pre-Warty info in there too
[08:12] <jsgotangco> no one reads this for sure
Nobody actually reads documentation, FAQs or the /topics of IRC channels.</cynic>
[08:14] <jsgotangco> lol
[08:16] <bur[n] er> i don't see the faq as part of the svn package?
[08:17] <Madpilot> bur[n] er: none of the regular website stuff is, AFAIK
[08:28] <CarlFK> woa... just now got my mail list subscription conf...
[08:28] <Madpilot> CarlFK: when did you subscribe?
[08:29] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, this faq is a nice topic to start ranting again heh
[08:29] <rob> hello
[08:29] <CarlFK> Sun, 12 Feb 2006 01:04:11 -0600 (CST)
[08:29] <rob> desktop guide is no workies for me
[08:29] <Madpilot> rob: current SVN?
[08:30] <jsgotangco> rob, fix it ;)
[08:30] <rob> then I am trying to mess with it on a non-ubuntu box, so it could be just the xml packages suck
[08:30] <rob> yeah
[08:30] <jsgotangco> the validation should still work though its just nwalsh and other stuff
[08:31] <Madpilot> it all works here in Breezy's Yelp
[08:31] <rob> this distro doesn't have the nwalsh stuff, I had to symlink it
[08:31] <spider-man> !list
[08:31] <rob> ?
[08:31] <jsgotangco> what are you using?
[08:31] <spider-man> sorry
[08:31] <Madpilot> spider-man: no bot on this channel
[08:31] <rob> Archlinux
[08:31] <spider-man> wrong window
[08:31] <rob> heh yep
[08:32] <rob> ubuntu-doc: not a porn bot channel
[08:32] <spider-man> heheh
[08:33] <CarlFK> Madpilot: thats when my mail server frist got it, then it virus scanned it Mon, 13 Feb 2006 00:48:20 -0600 (CST)
[08:33] <CarlFK> about 24 hours later
[08:33] <rob> everyones like "archlinux hey.. pfft whatever!"
[08:34] <rob> dapper is going back on my laptop, I sware!
[08:52] <mdke> morning
[08:53] <Madpilot> hi
[09:22] <rob> :)
[09:24] <jsgotangco> that's true though, its is more annoying
[09:25] <jsgotangco> the worse is that it is automated
[09:25] <Madpilot> is Bluefish installed by default?
[09:25] <jsgotangco> nope
[09:26] <Madpilot> OK - wanted to add it to Desktop Guide, as an alternative to NVU (which I personally can't stand...) :P
[09:31] <jsgotangco> its in universe though, so you should indicate that universe should be turned on
[09:31] <jsgotangco> but GAI can turn it on for you
[09:48] <Madpilot> bluefish seems to be in main?
[09:48] <Madpilot> ah, no it's not, my bad...
[09:51] <jsgotangco> nope
[09:51] <jsgotangco> universe
[09:52] <Madpilot> OK, edited, recreated the .diff - yet another common-tasks.xml.diff coming in a moment...
[09:53] <jsgotangco> cool
[09:55] <Madpilot> diff dispatched - hope my commit rights arrive soon :P
[09:56] <jsgotangco> ok gimme a minute
[09:56] <jsgotangco> i serve at your pleasure
[09:56] <Madpilot> heh
[10:01] <mdke> Madpilot, good idea, bluefish is good
[10:01] <Madpilot> mdke: actually, I like Screem slightly better, but Bluefish is far more stable and overall more capable
[10:02] <mdke> for installing programs, i've just been doing "install the X package from the X repository (see <xref linkend="add-applications"/>)
[10:03] <mdke> giving the Programming (universe) > bluefish is a bit tricky IMO, because we've got gnome-app-install and synaptic to deal with
[10:03] <mdke> what do you think?
[10:04] <Madpilot> yeah, that might need tweaking all over the docs, actually
[10:04] <mdke> i've basically just being doing that wherever I see it for now
[10:04] <Madpilot> the "Foo (repo-name) > app-name" thing is  an odd hybrid between Synaptic's & gai's categories
[10:05] <mdke> yeah, I don't like it myself
[10:05] <mdke> jsgotangco, i'll apply the patch if you like
[10:06] <mdke> Madpilot, how about adding yourself as a contact for the desktopguide?
[10:06] <Madpilot> sure - where?
[10:06] <mdke> DocumentationTeam/Projects
[10:07] <mdke> jsgotangco, Madpilot, patch applied
[10:08] <Madpilot> thanks
[10:08] <jsgotangco> doh
[10:08] <jsgotangco> you beat me :P
[10:09] <jsgotangco> oh well the perks of a high time barrister :)
[10:09] <Madpilot> until I get commit access, there'll be enough to go around, guys :P
[10:12] <jsgotangco> have you guys noticed that Madpilot is now a certified docbook hacker
[10:12] <Madpilot> nah, I'm still faking it
[02:23] <jsgotangco> enrico, ping?
[02:25] <enrico> hi
[02:26] <jsgotangco> enrico, i've been reading through the DCG, nice stuff
[02:26] <jsgotangco> is still work in progress?
[02:28] <enrico> jsgotangco: yes, somehow
[02:28] <enrico> I've been meditating on its scope a bit
[02:28] <enrico> an idea is to make a shortish version and add it to the developers-reference
[02:28] <jsgotangco> mmm
[02:30] <jsgotangco> its nice by itself too
[02:32] <enrico> jsgotangco: yes, I agree
[02:32] <enrico> jsgotangco: I do think it's already quite useful
[02:32] <enrico> another idea I had is to use it for NM as it is
[02:33] <jsgotangco> or an intro to the debian community itself...
[02:36] <enrico> jsgotangco: yes.  I have a talk about it planned for Debconf6, and that'll be my opportunity for devoting serious thinking to it
[02:37] <enrico> (btw, having worked at the docteam
[02:37] <jsgotangco> i branched from it if you don't mind i'd like to follow on its progress
[02:37] <enrico> (btw, more than one idea for the DCG come from having worked here last year)
[02:37] <enrico> jsgotangco: sure!  Please feel free to send patches, change, reuse... :)
[08:59] <Burgwork> mdke, I had a thought regarding the flash stuff. Why not have a quick thing about free software and then one about shipit?
[09:05] <dsas> in launchpad, what is the difference between the "Ubuntu Documentation Project" team and the "Ubuntu Documentation Team" team?
[09:06] <dsas> the 'project', seems to have all the members in it but owns no packages, and the 'team' only has the tech board as members but owns the packages.
[09:07] <dsas> bad question: that is the difference, but I meant 'why is the difference'?
[09:10] <Burgwork> dsas, likely they need to be merged
[09:11] <dsas> should I talk to someone on #launchpad about merging them?
[09:12] <dsas> or do I need to check with someone else whether or not they do require a merge?
[09:15] <Burgwork> yes, chat with someone in #lp
[09:23] <LaserJock> are you guys watching the -devel thread on "Restoring the Help icon"?
[09:27] <Burgwork> LaserJock, of course
[09:27] <Burgwork> having not actually opened yelp in a while, are they talking abut breezy or dapper performance
[09:27] <LaserJock> so what about this gnome help is really slow stuff
[09:28] <LaserJock> well, I assume dapper but it sounds more like breezy
[09:28] <Burgwork> yes, that is why
[09:39] <LaserJock> hi theCore
[09:48] <Burgwork> LaserJock, replied
[10:00] <mdke> dsas, the project is the project, and the team is the team
[10:00] <mdke> don't request a merge
[10:01] <dsas> ok, but I'm not sure I understand the distinction.
[10:03] <Burgwork> mdke, you got me confused as well
[10:04] <manicka> one outlines the project, the other outlines the people on the team
[10:04] <Burgwork> sorry, don't see the need for the distinction
[10:07] <manicka> I'm more confused by the distinction between the wiki team and the doc-team, one is a member of the other yet I'm a member of the wiki team but not the doc-team
[10:08] <LaserJock> lol, try looking at all the MOTU teams ;-) and MOTU is not motu on LP exactly
[10:10] <manicka> how does one become a member of the doc-team?
[10:10] <Burgwork> manicka, the division is to allow for the eventual goal of access control via team
[10:10] <Burgwork> so those people in the wiki team woudl have more access to the wiki
[10:10] <Burgwork> and those in the doc team commit access to a repo
[10:10] <Burgwork> obiviously people need to prove themselves at both
[10:10] <manicka> ok
[10:11] <Burgwork> the gold standard for letting people in to the doc team is a few good patches, plus agreement
[10:11] <Burgwork> the standard for the wiki team is mostly if I see if you have been constructively active
[10:12] <manicka> ok
[10:12] <manicka> back to docbook then ;)
[10:12] <Burgwork> indeed
[10:16] <mdke> argh
[10:17] <theCore> LaserJock, did you worked on the PG ?
[10:17] <Burgwork> mdke, I had a thought regarding the flash stuff. Why not have a quick thing about free software and then one about shipit?
[10:17] <LaserJock> theCore: just a little, I am changed the appendix to be an appendix ;-)
[10:18] <mdke> Burgwork, yeah I'm about to reply *g*
[10:18] <mdke> Burgwork, dsas, i confused you, sorry. my bad
[10:18] <LaserJock> theCore: but I'm still struggling with a lot of MOTU work and figuring out this mac thing
[10:18] <mdke> those teams are indeed duplicates
[10:18] <mdke> the -list one was created during the bug migration
[10:18] <mdke> a bug is filed, somewhere
[10:18] <mdke> sorry!
[10:19] <mdke> Burgwork, about flash, sounds reasonable, but difficult to animate
[10:19] <_dsas> ahh :) ok.
[10:20] <Burgwork> mdke, doesn't necessarily have to be that animated
[10:21] <theCore> LaserJock, ok then, I will continue alone ...
[10:21] <mdke> Burgwork, i'd say, go ahead and add it, then get mark to choose his favourite 10 or whatever
[10:22] <LaserJock> theCore: what are you working on? more basic skills material?
[10:22] <theCore> LaserJock, a little bit, but I want to get on the fun part quickly
[10:23] <mdke> bbl
[10:24] <mdke> these damn devel list people are a pain
[10:24] <mdke> how dare they diss yelp
[10:25] <Burgwork> mdke, indeed ;)
[10:26] <mdke> so why does the serverguide have a packaging section? don't we have a whole guide for that?
[10:28] <Burgwork> mdke, done
[10:30] <mdke> the free thing should be first, if its used IMO
[10:30] <Burgwork> sure
[10:38] <Burgwork> http://ubuntustudio.com/ <-- cool
[10:45] <dsas> I think there was something similar started on the forums, don't know how it's doing though.
[10:47] <dsas> For the programming section in the desktop guide should the kde/qt based tools be split out and put in the kubuntu guide?
[10:47] <mdke> i don't think so. The more the merry
[10:48] <mdke> as long as something is installable on ubuntu, it can go in
[10:53] <dsas> okie dokie.
[10:56] <dsas> Is this meant just as a list of IDEs and what not? Or should we explain how to install them? Most of them don't need explaining, but I netbeans isn't in the repos and doesn't come packaged as a deb
[11:06] <LaserJock> seems like it would get much more difficult if you have to explain how to install apps that aren't installable through synaptic, etc.
[11:12] <dsas> I think it may be worth leaving it as an exercise for the reader, after all, if they can program they should hopefully be capable of learning where to get it and how to install it.
[11:13] <LaserJock> but then we have to support that, will we have to update those instructions for each release of netbeans?
[11:17] <dsas> probably, I'm saying that it may best to leave it to the reader to decide how to get and install it.
[11:18] <dsas> To document it gives extra workload as you said, and to remove it when version 5 is out soon and has been getting hype may be a mistake.
[11:20] <LaserJock> oh, I see what your saying. I agree
[11:21] <LaserJock> I think a link to the homepage or something is probably sufficent
[11:53] <mdke> dsas, hmm?
 I think a link to the homepage or something is probably sufficent
[11:54] <dsas> Talking about netbeans.
[11:54] <mdke> ah right
[11:54] <mdke> i can't take credit for that, it came out of one of the forum threads we posted :)
[11:54] <dsas> Well, yes. Good copy and paste work then.
[11:55] <mdke> damn straight
[11:57] <mdke> dsas, if you want to bulk up the programming section, that would be great though
[11:58] <dsas> I have a couple of ideas for it, there's probably some more tools we should talk about, and maybe links to "Programming with GTK" type articles stuff.
[11:58] <mdke> that'd be great
[11:59] <mdke> just wade in
[12:02] <dsas> mdke: Do we really need implementation details like "eric3 is written in pyqt"? Shouldn't we focus on what the app is good for, not what was used to make it?
[12:02] <LaserJock> dsas: what doc are you working on?
[12:02] <dsas> i'll try and reword some of those descriptions I think.
[12:03] <dsas> LaserJock: Looking at the desktop guides programming section.


[00:33] <JackFrost> Purging dbus-x11 from my system. :D
[00:36] <arraybolt3[m]> 😬 Is that safe?
[00:37] <JackFrost> For me it is.
[00:37] <arraybolt3[m]> (Eh, you're a developer, devs generally don't care about "safe" in my experience.)
[00:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Ah, nice.
[00:37] <JackFrost> This desktop isn't exactly Xubuntu.
[00:41] <arraybolt3> ...so what is it then? You can't just make me curious and then leave me hanging like that.
[00:41] <JackFrost> Feels like advertising though, soo..
[00:42] <JackFrost> I'll say Debian.
[00:56] <bluesabre> :D
[00:56] <JackFrost> ...At least I hope it doesn't break anything. >_>
[02:16] <JackFrost> pleia2: BTW, is there any way you'd prefer me to do Xubuntu dev server reboots?  Ping you first, wait for you to do them, etc?
[02:17] <JackFrost> There's kernel updates too, but that still uses Linode kernels I think.  I don't track those. :3
[16:45] <pleia2> JackFrost: apologies, things really got away from me
[23:23] <JackFrost> pleia2: No problem at all, I take care of the ubottu server too so it's not added effort really.  Just wondering preferences.


[10:45] <gsimondo1> Got a 3 machine juju cloud that is currently stuck because it can't resolve a relation between influxdb and telegraf. This puts influxdb in error state. Resolving its state just puts it back in error state. The consequence is that I can't remove model, controller, machine, or anything that's above this unit/relation in stack.
[10:45] <gsimondo1> Any advice on how to handle these situations?
[11:03] <kjackal> hi gsimondo1, first file a bug with the proper section of juju debug-log showing the error. Then you can remove the machine where the failing application is deployed and that should unblock all the remove operations
[11:04] <kjackal> let me check if there is a --force flag
[11:04] <kjackal> yes, juju remove-machine <id> --force
[13:22] <gsimondo1> kjackal: Just saw your message. I figured that out a couple of hours ago but that kills the machine. So I take it that this is a bug that's worth reporting on github?
[13:24] <kjackal> gsimondo1: if you want to keep the machine you can try juju resolved with --no-retry flag
[13:26] <gsimondo1> kjackal: doesn't help. it wakes up and reexecutes the failing relation. can't get rid of the relation.
[13:26] <gsimondo1> 2018-02-12 13:25:55 DEBUG query-relation-joined TypeError: configure() missing 2 required positional arguments: 'username' and 'password'
[13:26] <gsimondo1> 2018-02-12 13:25:55 ERROR juju.worker.uniter.operation runhook.go:113 hook "query-relation-joined" failed: exit status 1
[13:30] <kjackal> gsimondo1: this is on the telegraf or the influx db side?
[13:30] <kjackal> influxdb, sorry
[13:30] <gsimondo1> root@kubernetes-2 ~ # tail -f /var/log/juju/unit-influxdb-0.log
[13:32] <kjackal> gsimondo1: how did you deploy this charm?
[13:32] <kjackal> I am looking for the revision
[13:32] <kjackal> is it thisone: https://jujucharms.com/influxdb/13
[13:33] <gsimondo1> kjackal: ehalilov@kubernetes-0 ~ $ juju deploy cs:~influxdb-charmers/influxdb
[13:33] <gsimondo1> before that juju deploy telegraf
[13:35] <gsimondo1> kjackal: the problem is of course that I was experimenting with relations that are not offered when you do 'juju add-relation telegraf influxdb'
[13:36] <gsimondo1> kjackal: with something like 'juju remove-relation telegraf:juju-info influxdb:juju-info'
[13:36] <gsimondo1> *add-relation, not remove
[13:38] <kjackal> gsimondo1: the error you got says that configure() missing 2 required positional arguments: 'username' and 'password', this method is here: https://github.com/ChrisMacNaughton/interface-influxdb-api/blob/master/provides.py#L27  and the charm is calling this method here: https://git.launchpad.net/influxdb-charm/tree/reactive/influxdb.py#n261
[13:38] <kjackal> so... this is a bug on the influxdb charm if I understand this correctly
[13:39] <kjackal> gsimondo1: will you be able to open a ticket here: https://launchpad.net/influxdb-charm ?
[13:41] <gsimondo1> kjackal: OK, I'll test a couple of other things and then open a ticket. I also have some other things failing in a similar fashion (relation related)
[13:42] <kjackal> now, to get you unblocked.... how confident are you in your scripting skills? If you juju ssh in influxdb you can find the charm source under /var/lib/juju/unit-influxdb-0(probably)/charm
[13:42] <gsimondo1> kjackal: correct me if I'm wrong but the main issue here is that I can't get rid of the failing relation... and it has effect on things like model, controller, machine, etc. Basically putting everything in state of paralysis and this is a bug that should be fixed on the level of juju or I'm missing something?
[13:43] <gsimondo1> kjackal: OK let me take a look at that file. I'm software engineer turned devops so I can code.
[13:43] <kjackal> awesome
[13:44] <kjackal> so if you go to the reactive/influxdb.py and do something like an early "return" you will not be hitting this road block
[13:48] <kjackal> gsimondo1: your issue is already reported: https://bugs.launchpad.net/influxdb-charm/+bug/1723334
[13:48] <mup> Bug #1723334: influxdb-api relation breaks when related to telegraf charm <InfluxDB Charm:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1723334>
[13:49] <gsimondo1> mup: Yep
[13:49] <mup> gsimondo1: I apologize, but I'm pretty strict about only responding to known commands.
[13:51] <kjackal> mup: help
[13:51] <mup> kjackal: Run "help <cmdname>" for details on: bug, contrib, echo, help, infer, issue, login, poke, register, run, sendraw, sms
[13:51] <zeestrat> mup: help help
[13:51] <mup> zeestrat: help [<cmdname>] — Displays available commands or details for a specific command.
[13:52] <kjackal> mup: help sms
[13:52] <mup> kjackal: sms <nick> <message ...> — Sends an SMS message.
[13:52] <mup> kjackal: The configured LDAP directory is queried for a person with the provided IRC nick ("mozillaNickname") and a phone ("mobile") in international format (+NN...). The message sender must also be registered in the LDAP directory with the IRC nick in use.
[13:53] <zeestrat> What a helpful fellow
[14:00] <gsimondo1> kjackal: commenting the problematic line works but for sure not a solution to the problem
[14:13] <kjackal> yes, this has to be fixxed upstream in the charm code
[14:25] <gsimondo1> kjackal: I don't know people who use canonical k8s yet but it seems to me that it would be rather painful without custom charms
[14:26] <kjackal> gsimondo1: are you deploying k8s?
[14:27] <kjackal> I am with the team working on packaging k8s, can you elaborate a bit on the issues you faced?
[14:28] <kjackal> gsimondo1: we have a set of add-on charms that do the monitoring and logging but they are not based on influxdb, we use prometheus
[14:29] <gsimondo1> kjackal: creating a proof of concept but firstly trying to break juju as much as possible. the out of the box k8s "production" bundle provided installs fine but we would like to use components that do not have charms already or don't have them for xenial
[14:29] <gsimondo1> kjackal: I want prometheus but I want to have influxdb for durable storage
[14:29] <gsimondo1> kjackal: currently I use remote read/write that they offer for our current solution outside of k8s
[14:30] <kjackal> would you be able to make a case for influxdb addition here: https://github.com/juju-solutions/bundle-canonical-kubernetes/issues
[14:31] <kjackal> gsimondo1: this is the place where we gather all requests and bugs on canonical k8s
[14:33] <gsimondo1> kjackal: the only problem is that remote read/write for prometheus and influxdb integration seems to be something that they want to solve by providing an ability to add influxdb as default storage for prometheus
[14:33] <gsimondo1> kjackal: here's paul dix on that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZkHlhautGk
[14:34] <gsimondo1> kjackal: so building something for this remote read/write solution that may be superseded by a more superior solution that's part of prometheus code seems like a waste of time
[14:34] <gsimondo1> kjackal: but I can create an issue if nothing then for discussion about this
[14:36] <kjackal> that would be nice, thank you
[14:37] <kjackal> gsimondo1: We keep kubernetes bundle addons here: https://github.com/conjure-up/spells/tree/master/canonical-kubernetes/addons
[14:38] <kjackal> i guess graylog and prometheus are the most interesting
[14:40] <gsimondo1> kjackal: so prometheus one is pretty much what I'm trying to test currently, just with influxdb in the mix for storage.
[14:40] <gsimondo1> kjackal: outside of the bundle you provide of course
[14:42] <gsimondo1> kjackal: the most dangerous thing I've encountered so far is the bug in these upstream charms that led to an impasse in my testing environment where I can't do anything due to some relation hook failing. my conclusion from that is that one has to test all the edge cases of charms used if they don't want to experience such paralyzing events in production systems
[14:43] <gsimondo1> kjackal: again, not sure if juju should provide some kind of mechanism to exit the deadlock as you seem to suggest that charms should just work, if they don't then hot fix the code
[15:56] <kwmonroe> gsimondo1: one thing you might be hitting is that events can queue up on the failing unit, so you'd have to run --no-retry multiple times.  for example, influx may fail on the query relation, but then have a peer or status event queue up behind that.   if the root cause of the error affects all those events, you'd have to run "juju resolved --no-retry influxdb/0" multiple times to get the unit back to a responsive state.
[15:57] <kwmonroe> you could watch status with "juju debug-log -i influxdb/0 --tail" in one window while you're doing the --no-retry.  you should see juju progress past one hook, then potentially move to another that you have to pass with --no-retry, etc etc.
[15:59] <gsimondo1> kwmonroe: useful, thanks for that. I'll test if that resolves the issue. So far I've been mitigating this by manually editing code to get out of the deadlock
[16:02] <kwmonroe> gsimondo1: fyi, this feels like bug 1741506.  if we had a --force flag for juju remove-*, it could do the --no-retries automatically until the removal could be completed.
[16:02] <mup> Bug #1741506: Removing a unit or application doesn't resolve errors <cli> <usability> <juju:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1741506>
[16:05] <gsimondo1> kwmonroe: seems like it. also, from the point of view of UI, what you suggest is important because prompting people should be optional IMO
[16:06] <kwmonroe> +1
[17:01] <rick_h> bdx: howdy
[19:29] <bobeo> rick_h: bdx So I deploye two instances of owncloud into juju,and I also deployed two instances of postgresql, and the databases have synced as expected, and are replicating as expected, however, owncloud did not, even though owncloud uses postgresql for user accounts and for data storage. Can anyone explain, or help me understand something that I missed?
[19:43] <kwmonroe> bobeo: a quick look at the charm source (https://github.com/omnivector-solutions/layer-owncloud/blob/master/metadata.yaml) doesn't show any peer relations.  that means multiple owncloud instances won't do anything special when another comes along.  if you've deployed 2 of those, i'd bet that they both have their own db created and are working as 2 independent ownclouds.
[19:46] <bobeo> kwmonroe: But it does seem that the postgresql that I deployed does have it. postgresql/0*  active    idle   4/lxd/6  <IP_ADDRESS>       5432/tcp  Live master (9.5.11) postgresql/1   active    idle   5/lxd/2  <IP_ADDRESS>       5432/tcp  Live secondary (9.5.11)
[19:46] <bobeo> kwmonroe: The thing that confuses me, is that shouldnt the postgresql database be storing all of the configurations data, IE the databa OOOOO! if the webserver doesnt point to the data, it doesnt matter that its replicated!
[19:47] <bobeo> kwmonroe: so what would you recommend I do to "make it" do the thing? Its so close to perfect for me. What are my options?
[19:48] <kwmonroe> bobeo: what thing are you trying to do?  make it so that 2 owncloud units use the same database?
[19:48] <bobeo> kwmonroe: as for owncloud to the db, I added the relation of postgresql:db owncloud:postgresql
[19:48] <kwmonroe> right -- postgres does have a peer relation, so it will replicate amongst the cluster of postgres units.
[19:48] <bobeo> kwmonroe: Yes, and that the data replicates in the database between the database clusters, specifically so that 2 servers have the data in two databases, so that if one physical server dies, services remain available.
[19:49] <bobeo> kwmonroe: The idea is point haproxy forwarders to the local haproxy services, which point at the owncloud servers that share the same postgresql clusters
[19:49] <bobeo> high availablity from top to bottom. I lost a django project today. Never again.
[19:50] <bobeo> I lost almost a month worth of code progress, damn near cried, and quite literally might have bitten off something's head had anything live been within range at the moment of realization
[19:51] <kwmonroe> ouch :(
[19:52] <bobeo> kwmonroe: yea, especially because im new to django. The idea is build cool apps that solve real problems using django, decorate it using bootstrap and reactive. I was so close. less than 30 minutes away, and I would have finished my first successful django project.
[19:54] <bobeo> kwmonroe: so im hoping this idea, combined with a gitlab to go with it, will prevent that from ever happening again. Plus itll allow me to share the code with others for peer review, as well as external input/assistance.
[19:55] <kwmonroe> bobeo: since the postgres peering work is already done, the next piece would be to make owncloud aware of its peers.  i dunno what that entails, so you'd have to check the OC docs for whatever is needed to run a cluster of owncloud apps.  it may be as simple as just ensuring they all use the same db creds.
[19:56] <kwmonroe> bobeo: i think the harder part will be for the object storage.  i'm assuming OC uses some actual filesystem to store objects and that they're not just blobs in a database.
[19:56] <kwmonroe> so for that, you'd need to have a common NFS share, or s3 storage, or something so all the OC units could access the same backend data.
[19:57] <bobeo> kwmonroe: I was under the impression since it didnt include using NFS that it was storing as BLOB in the postgresql db. How do I verify if thats the case? Ive never run into not knowing how the "data" is stored before?
[19:58] <kwmonroe> bobeo: i see that bdx has storage on his todo list -- https://github.com/omnivector-solutions/layer-owncloud/blob/master/README.md#todo -- maybe sync with him to find out if there is any work in progress to help with.
[19:59] <bobeo> kwmonroe: ahhh! ill do that. Im hoping to get this thing running sooner, rather than later. My soul still burns. My poor django baby. I dont see how developers carry on. It feels like I lost a piece of my very being.
[20:02] <kwmonroe> bobeo: if you have an OC deployment handy, upload a relatively big file (100ish megs) and see where it goes on the unit.  i'm guessing /var/www/owncloud/data (which is the location that would need to be shared amongst your OC peers).
[20:02] <kwmonroe> if it does jam it into postgres, you'll probably see /var/lib/postgres grow by 100ish megs
[20:06] <kwmonroe> bobeo: looks like you can setup external storage through the GUI; https://doc.owncloud.org/server/10.0/admin_manual/configuration/files/external_storage_configuration_gui.html -- so if you get multiple OC units talking to the same database, then go in to each UI and configure external storage, that might get you where you want to be.  then you'd hopefully find a programatic way to do that config so the charm could do it for
[20:06] <kwmonroe>  you next time.
[20:12] <rick_h> kwmonroe: bobeo yea, you need the OC charm to elect a leader, pass it's pgsql connection to the non-leaders, and enable the leader sending object storage creds to the others as well
[20:12] <rick_h> kwmonroe: bobeo the idea being that if a non-leader dies no biggie and if the leader goes down a new one will be elected and already have the details it needs
[20:13] <rick_h> kwmonroe: bobeo it's a bit much to bite off as your first bits of charming and maybe you can send a note to the list and get some examples. All the ones I can think of would be openstack and rather large chunks to process
[20:17] <bobeo> rick_h: That sounds like serious "OOoh dis gonna hurt" content to try to take on. I guess in the interum simply wait until my skill and comfort level builds? And use Git instead? Its mostly the code Im concerned about. Is that a feature gitlab supports?
[21:28] <kwmonroe> bobeo: the leadership bits rick_h was referring to would need to be implemented in the owncloud charm.  the hard part of leadership is already handled by juju and layer-leadership.  the last mile is that piece in the OC charm that sets/gets config to ensure all OC units have the same info.
[21:29] <kwmonroe> i'm not quite sure what you meant with "feature gitlab supports", but again, this would be up to the owncloud charm to coordinate the config amonst its peers.
[21:31] <yosefrow_> anyone with knowledge of juju/openstack hear of a kolla juju bundle for openstack
[21:31] <kwmonroe> the docs cover a bit about juju's leadership capabilities (https://jujucharms.com/docs/stable/developer-leadership) and the layer that owncloud would need to include has a bit more about how a reactive charm works with leadership (https://git.launchpad.net/layer-leadership/tree/README.md)
[21:32] <kwmonroe> ^^ that was for bobeo, not you yosefrow_ :)
[21:32] <yosefrow_> I had an conversation yesterday trying to convince someone to switch to juju for openstack, and they insisted that Kolla is the future for openstack deployments
[21:32] <yosefrow_> i didnt really have a comeback
[21:33] <yosefrow_> pretty much the conversation came down to why Kolla (openstack with dockers) is better than juju openstack bundle (which uses lxd)
[21:34] <kwmonroe> yosefrow_: i don't have OS/Kolla exp, but typically when it comes down to docker vs lxd, it's good to consider what type of container is best for you.  docker (process) vs lxc (system) containers.
[21:35] <kwmonroe> i like to ssh into things and poke around.  having /var/log/* and "normal" systemd / init functions make system containers easier for me to diagnose/debug.  ymmv of course.
[21:35] <yosefrow_> kwmonroe, their argument was basically that lxd is dying and therefore not nearly as well supported as docker
[21:35] <bobeo> yosefrow_: I would heavily disagree with them. Nothing is stopping you from installing magnum, which will allow you to use docker containers with openstack. You dont want docker containers for infrastructure, you want them for containers for projects. System containers allow you to push process containers, or containers in containers. You cant as easily do that with lxc in docker, but very easily with docker in lxc. VM in a VM arguement.
[21:36] <bobeo> a type 1 into a type 2, but you can a type 2 into a type 1, which I have also done, and currently do.
[21:37] <kwmonroe> did i miss a netcraft report?  yosefrow_, i'd love to see the "lxd is dying" source.
[21:37] <yosefrow_> kwmonroe, if not dying, than not very popular
[21:37] <yosefrow_> thats pretty much what they said
[21:37] <yosefrow_> but i had no statistics
[21:38] <bobeo> kwmonroe: No, you didnt. I speak with the netcraft people all the time. LXD is doing better than fine these days. Docker is overfluffed peacock fluffing its feathers again as always.
[21:38] <yosefrow_> bobeo, their argument for container usage is that eventually they say openstack services will move to kubernetes because it allows seamless and 100% reliable deployment with pod failover features. Therefore, docker is the path forward.
[21:39] <yosefrow_> Is there a solid basis to say that this is not hte case, and that system services should not be provided in docker containers?
[21:40] <bobeo> yosefrow_: They are wrong. That feature already exists with Nova_Evactuate, which is also possible with Magnum. That feature has existed for years for Openstack.  I know kelsey personally, and he will tell you the same, as he has always told people. Kube has its purpose, so does docker, so does KVM, so does LXD.
[21:41] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Yes. The first would be my personal experience, when I had to rebuild my entire openstack environment because 1 container crapped out. Unfortunately, it was my Keystone container, the only one you cant recover from if you dont have a proper HA deployment available.
[21:42] <yosefrow_> bobeo, so the main issue with system containers is their tendency to fail, and failing to take into account that many system services cannot follow the recovery model, but must simply never go down ?
[21:42] <bobeo> yosefrow_: The second would be any number of members from the kubenetes development team. They will directly tell you kube is designed as a devops tool, not as  an infrastructure tool. Its not designed with the robustness to maintain a high availability, high load, feature rich environment. Containers, especially docker, has been service driven in design. its designed to provide one specific purpose, and perform it well. Infrastrucuture
[21:42] <yosefrow_> Basically that the fact that kubernetes services can recover quickly is irrelevant because the services cannot afford to fail in the first place?
[21:43] <bobeo> continues to require, a robust list of capabilities, and adapt on the fly requirements, which containers arent designed to do. They are designed to be depricated, not maintained.
[21:44] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Service containers historically die, and are built around a model that thats acceptable. System containers are build around the idea of "available at all costs". One is designed for HA Enviroments to cover their weaknesses, one is designed to be the HA environment.
[21:44] <yosefrow_> bobeo beautifully put. I like this distinction.
[21:44] <bobeo> yosefrow_: also, LXC containers have a VERY LONG history of success, docker containers do not. They are very new comparatively, and people historically need to knwo things will work.
[21:45] <yosefrow_> bobeo, do you have a link I can show the next guy who questions the viability or survivability of LXD as a container platform?
[21:46] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Honestly, I would put docker inside of LXC containers, and benefit from both. Use kubernetes to manage the docker containers inside of LXC. Enjoy the benefits of LXC system performance and density improvements over KVM, and also enjoy the centralized management performance and mobility of Docker/Kubernetes. That is our current plan with our project. To migrate to that model.
[21:47] <bobeo> Sure. Check out LXD vs KVM first though. Source is Canonical. Vancouver Event. It gives a good breakdown of what KVM is, and what LXC containers are. It gives a great insight into the performance difference as well.
[21:47] <bobeo> yosefrow_: allows the other side to understand why lxc containers in the first place, and then see why LXC is very different from Docker containers.
[21:47] <yosefrow_> bobeo, my main question in this context is whether or not the future of openstack services will be docker driven. From what you've said I've gathered that even if the capability for OS services via docker exists, its a bad idea because OS is too sensitive to change to rely on the Cattle Philosophy.
[21:47] <bobeo> yosefrow_: a good way to structure the environment is think about it like Hypervisors vs Baremetal.
[21:48] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Yes, that is correct. Docker isnt designed to support drastic OS shifts. its why the current issues with docker containers is patch management.  Patch em 50 times in an hour, LXC is Honey Badger, LXC dont care.
[21:51] <yosefrow_> bobeo, so you are aware of the challenges that projects like magnum/kolla are facing, and in your opinion they are simply barking up the wrong tree?
[21:52] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Yes. Think about it from this perspective. Instead of looking at it from a Me vs. You Perspective, if we work together to Co-Exist, we are both able to play to our strengths and weaknesses better, rather than trying to focus on being better generalists in a moot point to replace each other that will surely fail.
[21:53] <yosefrow_> bobeo, my interests are completely apolitical when it comes to solutions
[21:53] <yosefrow_> This is the line that sticks out for me: <bobeo> yosefrow_: Service containers historically die, and are built around a model that thats acceptable. System containers are build around the idea of "available at all costs". One is designed for HA Enviroments to cover their weaknesses, one is designed to be the HA environment
[21:53] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Open source devs, and projects need to realize co-existance is the best path to highest performance yield. I use a wide variety of projects that do the same thing to achieve a task, and pour my efforts and focus into interoperability, which is the easiest of dev tasks.
[21:53] <yosefrow_> bobeo, my job is to analyze, distill, and understand the spirit of things
[21:54] <yosefrow_> bobeo, I can sympathize and understand the frustration with entities that refuse to coexist as a symptom of feeling superior
[21:55] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Thats exactly the issue. Every project has this crazy idea that it needs to be "superior" whatever that means. Open source isnt the Olympics, you dont get a Gold Medal or a Good Job Cookie for being the best.
[21:56] <yosefrow_> bobeo, on the other hand, a good amount of ego feeds innovation
[21:57] <bobeo> yosefrow_: To be honest, there is no "best", only "best for the job at hand". For Us, that means using MySQL, MongoDB, and PostgreSQL at the same time. Each better at something than the other, using HAProxy, NGinx, AND Apache to get the jobs done.
[21:57] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Not really. Historically Ego has been toxic to innovation.
[21:57] <bobeo> yosefrow_: If nothing else, ego is what drives your teams apart, and pushes them to create their own project, just to spite yours.
[21:57] <yosefrow_> bobeo, I mean innovation requires a healthy amount of pride in what you do
[21:58] <yosefrow_> if you dont believe in the solution you are building, why build it
[21:58] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Its not in the best interest of the community. Yes, its excellent to take pride in what you do, but not to be proudful. Pride is the greatest path to self destruction.
[21:58] <yosefrow_> I'm not saying to ignore the next guy, just to have enough pride to drive your passion forward
[21:59] <bobeo> yosefrow_: absolutely dont ignore them, call them, hang out with them, share beers together. When projects merge, that when you see amazing things built. Almost all of our greatest OS tech came from projects merging. When great minds collide, miracles happen. Let passion be your guide, and you will find that you will fly faster than any rocket ever could.
[21:59] <yosefrow_> If in fact someone is blinding themselves because of pride, that's of course destructive behavior
[22:00] <yosefrow_> but if pride is driving someone forward causing them to believe they can do something better because they know they can, than I think its a good thing
[22:00] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Yes, but the issue is pride can be bruised and beaten, passion cannot.
[22:01] <yosefrow_> ok, I tried to play the devil's out advocate. I'm out of ammo xD
[22:02] <yosefrow_> bobeo, well I think the shift towards a more cooperative community is happening already. But there are still pockets of resistance, where some people refuse to cooperate because of their own self importance.
[22:03] <yosefrow_> bobeo, We will get there though. I'm sure
[22:03] <bobeo> yosefrow_: Lol! I learned the hard way. My pride got so large it became a sun, creating its own gravity well, crushing everything I valued, blinding me, and pushing a lot of people I cared about away. I learned that life lesson the hard way, hopefully you wont have to. And yes, there will be hold outs. And they will burn, just like Rohan.
[22:04] <yosefrow_> bobeo, been there and done that. I've been through the fires that lead to self awareness. I can't say I've completely discarded my pride. But at least I've become aware of it.
[22:05] <yosefrow_> Either way, I agree with what you said earlier, that both docker and lxd have an important role to play in the future of openstack and cloud computing in general
[22:05] <yosefrow_> I will take your advice with me to my next conversation. Thanks for all the tips :)


[02:03] <zkriesse> phillw: You 'round mate?
[02:03] <Unit193> He currently had /away set if that means anything
[02:03] <zkriesse> Yeah means he's probably out or sleepin
[02:16] <Ahmcuk> !build
[04:41] <ubuntu_> I am pissed off :(
[04:41] <ubuntu_> Spent last day and today but could not install lubuntu
[04:41] <ubuntu_> on 1MB DSL speed I downloaded lubuntu several times, MD5 sum is also ok but during installation it give file copy error
[04:42] <ubuntu_> tried on my two systems, my friend also tried on his computer but same problem
[04:42] <ubuntu_> i wonder how other people got installed lubuntu in their systems
[04:43] <ubuntu_> my mouse pointer is left to right
[04:43] <jmarsden> ubuntu_: Can you boot from the CD?  If so, does it pass the Test the CD" menu item test
[04:43] <ubuntu_> I tried with both cd's usb, cannot boot from CD it goes to command line. Didn't try test the cd
[04:43] <jmarsden> Try it :)
[04:44] <ubuntu_> what will that do? i will have to burn cd again
[04:44] <jmarsden> No.  If the md5sum of the downloaded .iso file is good, then you need to check if the image on the CD is also good....
[04:44] <jmarsden> The kind of error you are seeing sounds like a hardware issue of some sort, we need to find out where the problem is.
[04:45] <ubuntu_> these troubles with me never happened on same cd, same image burner. with linux mint, ubuntu, mint lxde blah blah
[04:45] <ubuntu_> sure i will be happy to give details
[04:45] <ubuntu_> so that lubuntu can fix the problem
[04:46] <jmarsden> OK, so it must be Lubuntu hates you :)   I am an Lubuntu developer trying to help you.  Please run the test mentu item and tell me what it says.
[04:46] <ubuntu_> my one another feedback is please add IRC lubuntu channel details on front pages, It was really hard to find about lubuntu IRC channel
[04:46] <ubuntu_> ok
[04:48] <jmarsden> Which web page or pages do you think we should add info about the IRC channel to?
[04:48] <ubuntu_> on lubuntu.net main site
[04:49] <ubuntu_> i found it from wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/ContactUs
[04:50] <jmarsden> Ah, OK.  lubuntu.net is ... not really the main site, in some ways.  http://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu is the main Lubuntu web page.
[04:50] <ubuntu_> :O really
[04:50] <jmarsden> All the pages at ubuntu.com about Lubuntu have the "Contact Us" link.
[04:50] <jmarsden> Or should have.
[04:51] <ubuntu_> lubuntu.net isn't official site? :O
[04:51] <jmarsden> Call it historical accident.  It is owned by someone who used to be a lot more active in Lubuntu than he has been recently.
[04:51] <ubuntu_> what are official links to dowload lubuntu iso?
[04:51] <ubuntu_> download*
[04:52] <jmarsden> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[04:52] <jmarsden> The /topic of this channel has a shortedn URL to that, too.
[04:53] <ubuntu_> yes i am downloading from these tried both .iso mirrors and tired torrent too https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu
[04:53] <jmarsden> If you type /topic here, you will see that none of the links in the topic point to lubuntu.net :)
[04:54] <ubuntu_> wow thanks
[04:54] <jmarsden> By why are you redownloading... I asked you to boot from a CD and run the test menu item... ?
[04:54] <ubuntu_> yes i am going to test cd was download screenshot to show you a screenshot
[04:54] <jmarsden> OK.
[04:54] <ubuntu_> this happens to me from cd, usb during installation http://imagebin.org/169046
[04:55] <jmarsden> Wow, interesting ubiquity bug you are seeing there.
[04:55] <jmarsden> Let's test the CD and then look at that some more.
[04:55] <ubuntu_> ok i am going to reboot brb
[05:34] <jmarsden> Hmmm: "<ubuntu_> ok i am going to reboot brb "   was 40 minutes ago...
[05:36] <Unit193> Well, assuming he isn't using vista, he should have been back :/
[05:36] <jmarsden> Yes... I'm going to give him about another 20 minutes and then go AFK myself.
[05:37] <bioterror> vista boots rather fast!
[09:50] <ValentineX> jmarsden: ping
[09:51] <jmarsden> ValentineX: I'm here, but I shouldn't be, it is approaching 3am...
[09:51] <ValentineX> oh I am Aaqil, do you remember I was here before telling you about my Lubuntu installation problem
[09:52] <ValentineX> what is your google plus ID, I would be happy to add you :)
[09:52] <jmarsden> I don't do all the "social" stuff; email and IRC is plenty to keep me busy :)
[09:53] <ValentineX> I checked CD for defects and it said cd is ok
[09:53] <jmarsden> Ah, you were ubuntu_ before, not Aaqil
[09:53] <ValentineX> oh sorry :D
[09:54] <jmarsden> OK, so it is most likely something "different" about your PC, perhaps disk size or partitioning or something?  Is there anything unusual about the machine you are installing Lubuntu onto?
[09:54] <ValentineX> CD is ok, but still same installation problems
[09:54] <jmarsden> Well, at least you can stop redownloading the image now :)
[09:54] <ValentineX> i dont think so ..... I think problem is with lubuntu installer ... because I install linux mint LXDE, mint gnome, ubuntu, xubuntu on my same machine without any problems
[09:55] <jmarsden> The Lubuntu installer works on many many machines, and this is the first time I have heard of the issue.  So yes, there is probably some issue in ubiquity and how it handles doing Lubuntu installs on your hardware...
[09:55] <ValentineX> and my friend with AMD dual core is also facing same problem. Mine is intel 945 board
[09:56] <jmarsden> I've pesonally done tens of Lubuntu installs and never seen that issue... so while I accept there is an issue there, there is likely to be something about the way you are doing the install or the machine(s) being installed onto that is triggering it.
[09:57] <jmarsden> During the install, what non-default things are you choosing?
[09:57] <jmarsden> Are you using an unusual language or keyboard?
[09:57] <ValentineX> I choose manual partitions ... no internet connection ... normal USA keyboard settings
[09:58] <jmarsden> If you let it auto partition does it make any difference?
[09:58] <ValentineX> yes, because I am installing it with windows xp dual boot
[09:59] <jmarsden> Aha!  That is the "unusual" thing about your install, then.  All the ones I have done have been on dedicated PCs or else in virtual machines.
[10:00] <jmarsden> Is your friend with the AMD also doing dual-boot?
[10:01] <ValentineX> yes
[10:01] <jmarsden> OK.  Do you happen to have a spare old hard drive, one that you could temporarily use instead of the "real" hard drive, and test an install using the whole drive and automatic partitioning?
[10:02] <ValentineX> cant do this I do not play with hardwares or I mess things
[10:03] <jmarsden> Ah... OK :)
[10:04] <jmarsden> I don't have any more immediate suggestions for you to try, but thanks for letting us know about the issue.  I'll see if I can test a dual boot install later this week (I have a Windows-free home, but do use Windows at work...)
[10:05] <jmarsden> You might want to join the lubuntu-desktop mailing list and ask there in case anyone else has seen this kind of problem with Lubuntu.
[10:05] <ValentineX> Thanks, my intention to come here was to report the problem to make Lubuntu better
[10:05] <ValentineX> ok
[10:06] <jmarsden> OK, sounds good.  Now I need to sleep ... goodnight :)
[10:06] <ValentineX> gnite
[10:44] <gigenieks> Hi all,
[11:28] <gigenieks> guys need help we cannot install Lubuntu tried:
[11:28] <gigenieks> 1) LiveCD
[11:28] <gigenieks> 2) Alternate install
[11:28] <gigenieks> 3) Minimal CD install
[11:28] <gigenieks> all failed
[11:28] <bioterror> fails on what?
[11:55] <Gross> hello
[11:55] <Gross> i need help
[11:55] <Gross> I looked on internet but still havent find solution
[12:03] <bioterror> Gross, that doesnt tell us much
[12:04] <Gross> well
[12:04] <Gross> PCMan and trash
[12:04] <Gross> in lubuntu 11.04
[12:04] <Gross> ofc there is not one
[12:05] <Gross> and I want it :)
[12:05] <bioterror> you mean like trash on desktop or what?
[12:05] <Gross> yes
[12:05] <bioterror> it doesnt work
[12:06] <Gross> I know that PCMan deleted files instantly
[12:09] <Gross> thanx anyway byw
[12:09] <Gross> bye
[12:21] <japan> can somebody help me about adding my language on keyborad
[12:24] <bioterror> was it  /etc/default/keyboard
[12:24] <bioterror> XKBLAYOUT="us" or what ever you want it to be
[12:24] <bioterror> I dont have buntu machine near me now
[12:25] <bioterror> someone could confirm this for me
[12:26] <avelldiroll> bioterror: i confirm, that should do the trick
[12:34] <japan> i am cumming on dead bird
[12:34] <bioterror> we all have our faults
[12:35] <japan> when i see dead bird , i fill erection
[12:35] <bioterror> and now you can behave
[12:50] <gigenieks> How about my issue?
[12:52] <bioterror> gigenieks, what about it? you have not told us any information about your failure
[12:52] <bioterror> I cant see your problem from here
[12:53] <gigenieks> I will do something better -->  http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=11175726#post11175726
[12:56] <bioterror> how you can have a 900MHz Celeron and graphics card from the stone age?-)
[12:58] <gigenieks> I don't have. My friend somehow has. :D
[12:58] <bioterror> and about that minimal install
[12:59] <bioterror> he cannot install it at all?
[12:59] <gigenieks> I explained everything in that thread; did you read it?
[12:59] <gigenieks> nothing happened
[12:59] <gigenieks> we waited like 20min
[13:00] <bioterror> is that RAM okay? you've run memtest?
[13:01] <gigenieks> when he clicked "Command Line Install" - there blinked some text in top left corner it was like shrinked together (at least he explained it that way to me), so it was not readable. And then it dissappeared and nothing happened for 20minutes....
[13:01] <gigenieks> bioterror: he installed on that PC XP SP2 - no problems
[13:04] <bioterror> if nothing is wrong with it and the Xorg supports that display, then check out the boot parameters for kernel
[13:05] <gigenieks> "check boot parameters" - I don't have a clue what to check or how to do it.. and if I did know - I wouldn't know what commands to type. And I know all above I would have to explain it to my friend over skype. And friend havent used Linux at all!!!
[13:06] <bioterror> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions#Kernel%20Options
[13:08] <bioterror> you may want to xforcevse too
[13:08] <bioterror> xforcevesa
[13:09] <bioterror> but start without acpi and apic's
[13:09] <bioterror> could do the trick
[13:09] <bioterror> if you dont have anything better to do, go see your friend and have some nice GNU/Linux time together
[13:11] <gigenieks> Can you post exactly what should I (he) do in forums, so others could give input, and maybe fix same problem?
[13:11] <gigenieks> I would really appreacitate
[13:13] <bioterror> nope, I'm already 15mins late and I should be leaving my work
[13:13] <bioterror> as my parents in laws returns from holiday and my wife and kids are waiting
[13:13] <bioterror> you can try those out and then post if you had it working ;)
[13:14] <bioterror> I dont like ubuntuforums as it's full of "BEAN HUNTERS"
[13:14] <bioterror> you post something and right after that comes someone and rephrases your lines as his owns
[13:20] <silverarrow> hi
[13:20] <silverarrow> are lubuntu up to date on VLC ?
[13:21] <silverarrow> I suspect there are some codecs missing, it doesn't play youtube anymore
[13:21] <bioterror> youtube is played with flash
[13:21] <bioterror> or with html5
[13:21] <bioterror> as chromium can handle that
[13:22] <silverarrow> I know, but for downloaded youtube videos then?
[13:22] <silverarrow> I used to be able to open youtube flash streams and play fine too
[13:22] <bioterror> was it 1.1.11 the latest VLC
[13:23] <bioterror> yes
[13:23] <bioterror> they might have changed something in youtube
[13:24] <silverarrow> maybe, I have 1.1.9 The Luggage, but in linux the version number is always different
[13:24] <bioterror> my vlc player disappeared :D
[13:25] <bioterror> I inserted youtube url for stream
[13:25] <silverarrow> involuntarily ?
[13:25] <bioterror> yes, it crashed :D
[13:25] <silverarrow> yes, that used to work fine
[13:25] <silverarrow> mine doesn't, but will not play youtube any more
[13:26] <bioterror> crashes
[13:26] <silverarrow> is lubuntu up to date with latest vlc ?
[13:26] <bioterror> now I'm off, laters
[13:26] <silverarrow> have a fine day
[13:26] <silverarrow> or evening I suppose
[13:26] <bioterror> my worklaptop has 1.1.11
[13:26] <bioterror> ;)
[13:26] <bioterror> on windows and it crashes, tried twice
[13:26] <silverarrow> weird
[13:27] <silverarrow> maybe some kind of issue
[13:27] <silverarrow> the videolan guys are usually quick at responding to flaws
[13:28] <silverarrow> ubuntu updates are often delayed
[13:28] <silverarrow> like, new versions doesn't apply until next version of ubuntu
[13:30] <silverarrow> latest VLC works fine in old windows xp
[13:30] <silverarrow> I checked
[13:30] <silverarrow> any thoughts ?
[13:31] <bhm> silverarrow: Is this what you are looking for?
[13:31] <bhm> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=896757
[13:31] <silverarrow> Oneiric Ocelot
[13:33] <silverarrow> bhm, it's abit old though, 2008, and mine has played fine for ages
[13:33] <silverarrow> and not quite the same issue
[13:33] <bhm> ok sorry
[13:33] <silverarrow> it's all right, worth a shot
[13:34] <silverarrow> bhm, what if i removed lubuntu vlc, (installed form package manager) and get the one from their site?
[13:35] <bhm> v 1.1.11 ?
[13:35] <silverarrow> yes
[13:35] <silverarrow> it seems I have 1.1.09
[13:35] <bhm> :-)
[13:35] <silverarrow> which is a bit silly, cause I installed not that long a go, like a week
[13:36] <bhm> well your install package might be a bit outdated. Maybe ubuntu software centre will fix that soon
[13:36] <bhm> have you checked the lib's?
[13:36] <silverarrow> yes, maybe I should just wait a week or so and see
[13:37] <bhm> try:
[13:37] <bhm> sudo apt-get install libdvdread4
[13:37] <bhm> then: sudo /usr/share/doc/libdvdread4/install-css.sh
[13:38] <bhm> and restart vlc
[13:38] <bhm> Does it help?
[13:38] <silverarrow> It seemed I already had the lib package
[13:38] <bhm> good
[13:39] <bhm> I just found VLC guys on IRC on irc.videolan.org #videolan give them a buzz
[13:39] <bhm> :-)
[13:40] <silverarrow> vlc plays sound, but no picture
[13:40] <silverarrow> cool
[13:40] <silverarrow> thanks
[13:40] <bhm> Ur Welcome
[14:57] <silverarrow> does anyone know minitube?
[15:13] <silverarrow> is the gnome player project under development, or more like a finished product ?
[15:18] <silverarrow> anyone using the terminal window for updates?
[15:29] <silverarrow> how do you do updates from windows
[15:29] <silverarrow> I have been googeling commands
[15:29] <silverarrow> ?
[15:33] <silverarrow> any clever lubuntu users here?
[15:33] <silverarrow> half clever?
[15:49] <silverarrow> not so clever but enthusiastic ?
[15:49] <silverarrow> ;-)
[15:50] <silverarrow> any random geek from the street
[16:26] <silverarrow> bioterror?
[16:26] <bioterror> what
[16:26] <bioterror> I've got intense discussion about ouman eh-203!
[16:27] <silverarrow> just be intense, maybe another time then ;- )
[16:29] <bioterror> !ssh | silverarrow
[16:35] <silverarrow> anyone good with terminal window?
[16:35] <silverarrow> and ppa
[17:26] <IAmNotThatGuy> bioterror, nice help to japan LOL
[18:27] <Shvelo> Hey
[18:27] <Shvelo> Installing Lubuntu on Virtualbox
[18:28] <Shvelo> any guide on setting up a web server?
[18:29] <Shvelo> anyone here?
[18:35] <bioterror> that was guy in hurry
[18:35] <Unit193> Yep
[18:36] <Unit193> And Lubuntu server? lubuntu-core would be better, but still not the best
[18:37] <bioterror> nothing wrong in running web server
[18:37] <bioterror> as OS X comes with apache, so does OpenBSD
[18:37] <Unit193> Eh, I guess I do have lighthttpd installed
[18:38] <bioterror> lighttpd <3
[18:39] <Unit193> It's not used for much, that's for sure... (Moved to offtopic)
[18:43] <KM0201> how can you make pcman show thumbnails of files on remote filesystems?
[18:44] <bioterror> gvfs should enable that feature
[18:44] <KM0201> nautilus does, but the idea of installing nautilus for that is kinda silly.
[18:44] <KM0201> gvfs?
[18:45] <KM0201> gvs is installed.
[18:45] <bioterror> KM0201, thunar does that too
[18:45] <bioterror> and I'm sure pcmanfm can do it also
[18:45] <KM0201> bioterror: i tried thunar, not working there either
[18:48] <KM0201> just for grins, i installed nautilus, and thumbnails is working there, as i suspected
[18:50] <bioterror> KM0201, that's too easy =D
[18:50] <KM0201> bioterror: i know, and i'd rather not to do that.
[18:50] <bioterror> KM0201, did you use ssh:// or smb://?
[18:50] <KM0201> but i guess the question becomes, why doesn't pcmanfm have an option for thumbnails
[18:50] <KM0201> bioterror: smb
[18:50] <bioterror> okay
[18:50] <bioterror> try ssh://
[18:52] <KM0201> nope
[18:53] <leszek> hi
[18:54] <KM0201> any other ideas bioterror ?
[18:54] <bioterror> yes
[18:55] <bioterror> edit > preferences > Display
[18:55] <bioterror> there's Only show thumbnails for local files
[18:55] <bioterror> uncheck that box
[18:55] <bioterror> and adjust filesize big enough
[18:55] <KM0201> son of a.... i can't believe i missed that
[18:55] <bioterror> yeah
[18:56] <KM0201> that didn't work either though
[18:56] <bioterror> yes it works
[18:56] <KM0201> well wait, it didn't save the change for some reason, hang on
[18:57] <bioterror> put the size to 12MB and go to pictures folder
[18:57] <KM0201> i did that.
[18:57] <KM0201> it doesn't seem to save the changes.
[18:57] <KM0201> ok, now it saved the changes,
[18:57] <KM0201> lemme see if it worked.
[18:58] <KM0201> okk..
[18:58] <KM0201> its showing thumbnails for pics, but not for videos.
[18:58] <bioterror> yes
[18:58] <bioterror> as I said, make that file size bigger
[18:59] <KM0201> i did, i maxxed it out.
[19:14] <KM0201> any other ideas?
[20:09] <bhm> jmarsden?
[20:11] <bhm> Guess you have to hit the right box..... grmbl...
[20:14] <silverarrow> anyone clever with minitube?
[20:48] <silverarrow> really bad idea the minitube alternative, impissilble to upgrade
[20:48] <silverarrow> impossible*
[20:49] <lunasspecto> If any of the Lubuntu developers are around, I'd just like to say I've just switched from vanilla Ubuntu to Lubuntu, and I'm extremely satisfied. Thanks!
[20:56] <silverarrow> I did the same, Ubuntu and Totem really wore down my system
[20:57] <silverarrow> lunasspectro, considerably lighter
[20:57] <silverarrow> though Ubuntu should run with normal specs, but was way slower than Windows 7 here
[20:57] <KM0201> ubuntu was slower than 7?
[20:57] <KM0201> had to be 11.04
[20:58] <bioterror> only on slow hardware! ;D
[20:58] <silverarrow> yes, ubuntu 11.04
[20:59] <silverarrow> yeah, maybe not the best computer, but still 1,6 GHz processor
[20:59] <silverarrow> Ubuntu will not go on my newer HP,
[20:59] <silverarrow> the bootable live CD sort of will not boot
[21:00] <silverarrow> it halts before the boot up menue even
[21:00] <bioterror> I have couple of HP Compaq 8200 Elite's behind my back at work
[21:00] <silverarrow> like inbuilt Ubuntu inhibitor
[21:00] <bioterror> wish I had time to play around with them
[21:01] <silverarrow> Puppy linux goes on the HP just fine
[21:02] <silverarrow> might be driver issues too, making ubuntu run slow
[21:02] <silverarrow> windows 7, isn't that miraculously light and fast is it?
[21:03] <silverarrow> does anyone know how to add ppa for minitube?
[21:03] <silverarrow> I am having trouble
[21:03] <bioterror> you have guide on the ppa site
[21:04] <silverarrow> yes, I tried at least two guides googeling
[21:04] <silverarrow> *found googeling
[21:16] <pAt_> silverarrow: try Debian with LXDE, way faster then Lubuntu. I use it on my 1.6 Ghz Laptop. On my desktop, dual core Athlon, I use Ubuntu with LXDE
[21:17] <silverarrow> lubuntu runs fast here tough, on minimal computer
[21:17] <silverarrow> well, fast enough
[21:17] <silverarrow> ubuntu is like dipped in syrup
[21:18] <pAt_> Ubuntu with Gnome or Unity is a blowed Cow :D
[21:21] <pAt_> But even Ubuntu with LXDE alocates about 230 MBs after just starting it. Debian LXDE just needs 80 MB after start
[21:26] <silverarrow> maybe I should try debian then, but doesn't it very fast add to consumption when I add software?
[21:28] <silverarrow> pAt, I wonder why ubuntu has grown that big then
[21:28] <silverarrow> but I like ubuntu, when it runs fast
[21:32] <pAt_> I also like Ubuntu, used it for years, but it is blowed up. Yes, it will add to consumption, but not as fast as Ubuntu. In total, it is much more responsive silverarrow.
[21:32] <silverarrow> I see
[21:32] <silverarrow> right know lubuntu runs fine luckily
[21:32] <silverarrow> though I have major trouble with ppa
[21:33] <silverarrow> adding ppa and upgrading
[21:34] <pAt_> if lubuntu runs fine, then don´t touch it :)
[21:34] <pAt_> what problem with ppa?
[21:36] <pAt_> sorry, g2g silverarrow, catch you later
[21:36] <silverarrow> ppa for minitube
[21:37] <silverarrow> see you pAt
[21:51] <silverarrow> len, do you have any idea about adding ppa for minitube?
[21:52] <silverarrow> for upgrade via terminal
[21:56] <silverarrow> hi, mike
[22:09] <phillw> silverarrow: any ppa can be added, as to what it does to your system in terms of what additional resources it requires, is down to the author and not the linux operating system you use.
[22:10] <phillw> thankfully, any ppa can be easily removed, should it cause a problem :)
[22:14] <phillw> gilir: there is some chatter on the forum area, which I can confirm in that the daily builds have vanished / access denied. Any ideas as to what the problem is? http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20110818/
[22:14] <silverarrow> phillw, this ppa didn't come easy though
[22:15] <phillw> silverarrow: if it goes 'bad' then use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Developers#PPA_management
[22:15] <silverarrow> I am happy with all idiot proof "copy & paste" guides lol
[22:17] <silverarrow> phillw, trouble is I downloaded a version from package manager, and it turns out it is 2 versions outdated, and youtube have done something
[22:17] <phillw> adding an ppa, is about one the least painful methods of grabbing an app not in the repository, the advantage of using the repos is that there is some q.a. stuff done on them to get there. I've used ppa's not in the official repos and have been fine, others have borked really badly!
[22:18] <silverarrow> it might have been easier if I installed directly via terminal or via homepage
[22:18] <phillw> silverarrow: is that the download from you-tube via terminal?
[22:20] <phillw> there is an extension for chromium at http://www.chromeextensions.org/music-videos-photos/download-youtube-videos-as-mp4-flv/ that covers you-tube, I've never used mini tube - so cannot advise. sorry :/
[22:23] <phillw> silverarrow: Download Helper (previously only FFfox and one I use) is now available for Chromium :D
[22:24] <phillw> http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/03/new-chrome-extension-brings-support-for.html
[22:25] <phillw> as an 'approved' extension, it should sit much happier than messing about with a ppa
[22:26] <silverarrow> youtube-dl works fine though, but playing is fuzz after the latest youtube codec type changes
[22:29] <phillw> silverarrow: Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/html5 Afterall, HTML5 is the future :)
[23:20] <silverarrow> I need a break, maybe I shall find a fix tomorrow


[07:30] <tardrace> quick question - why will some terminal commands not work unless i put "./" in front of the command?
[07:32] <tsimpson> tardrace: depends on the command, or more specifically, where it is
[07:33] <tsimpson> if you just type the "command", then the shell looks in the directories listed in $PATH for it, but you can put the path yourself
[07:33] <tardrace> well before i grabbed xchat (for its gui) i downloaded BitchX - I installed it to opt/bitchx - when i went to run the command BitchX if i simply typed that it wouldn't work. I had to type ./BitchX and then it booted
[07:34] <tsimpson> there are two kinds of path, absolute and relative. absolute paths start with a /, like /bin/ls, relative ones don't. in that case ./ mean "in the current directory"
[07:34] <tardrace> ok understood
[07:36] <tardrace> I still don't understand one thing tho: when I navigate to /opt/bitchx (the directory where the program BitchX is) I can't simply type 'BitchX' to launch the program. Why is that?
[07:37] <tardrace> (i am trying to launch it via the command terminal)
[07:37] <tsimpson> because it doesn't look in the current directory, only in $PATH, that's why you have to give it a path
[07:38] <tsimpson> "./BitchX" is a relative path, where as just "BitchX" is not
[07:39] <tsimpson> unless there's a '/', it's not seen as a path by the shell, that's why "./" works
[07:40] <tardrace> ok now I understand better
[11:52] <duanedesign> hello penreturns
[12:00] <duanedesign> brb


[00:05] <ianorlin> hi ignacio|here how can I help?
[00:05] <ignacio|here> ianorlin, nothing now, just Im happy, I have Lubuntu 12.10 :)
[00:06] <ianorlin> glad you like it
[00:06] <ignacio|here> Yeah ofc :)
[00:07] <ignacio|here> Lubuntu 14.04 would be LTS?
[00:07] <ianorlin> yes
[00:07] <ignacio|here> Yeah! Cool
[00:25] <MR_Wazzap11> Hello all
[00:26] <ignacio|here> hi
[00:28] <MR_Wazzap11> I'm new to Lubuntu and I just installed Cairo Dock, would you be able to help me hide/get rid of the default "taskbar"?
[00:30] <MR_Wazzap11> Would anyone be able to help me out with that?
[00:31] <phillw> MR_Wazzap11: right click somewhere on the task bar so that you get Panel Preferences, Goto Advanced and then click in the box Automatic hiding
[00:31] <phillw> Panel Settings --> Panel Preferences
[00:32] <MR_Wazzap11> But then it still shows up when I hover there with my mouse, even at 0px Is there no way to completely remove it?
[00:32] <phillw> MR_Wazzap11: you can uninstall it.
[00:33] <MR_Wazzap11> Through synaptics package manager?
[00:33] <phillw> the application is called lxpanel
[00:33] <phillw> MR_Wazzap11: yesy
[00:34] <MR_Wazzap11> Ok and just so I dont shoot myself in the foot here, how would I go about adding Cairo to the startup so it doesnt start up with no panels whatsoever?
[00:35] <phillw> MR_Wazzap11: I'm not overly familiar with cairo dock!
[00:35] <ianorlin> I would before you remove panel go to panel prefrences default apps for lxseisson and add cairo to startup
[00:36] <MR_Wazzap11> ianorlin, Would that be by right click on the panel? Cause I cant find that option in there anywhere..
[00:36] <ignacio|here> I crashed anything
[00:37] <ianorlin> on the menu
[00:37] <ianorlin> ignacio how?
[00:38] <MR_Wazzap11> How do I add Cairo to the startup? I'm in the panel preferences -> autostart now what do I add for the command?
[00:41] <MR_Wazzap11> ianorlin, ?
[00:41] <ianorlin> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/saucy/man1/cairo-dock.1.html will tell you which you might want some options
[00:41] <MR_Wazzap11> Thanks Ill check it out
[00:43] <MR_Wazzap11> Also, bit of a facepalm moment, I changed the theme and it opened another dock, how do I close one dock :S ianorlin
[00:44] <ianorlin> open a task manager and term one of the processes
[00:46] <MR_Wazzap11> Thanks :S
[00:49] <MR_Wazzap11> Ok added to startup with "cairo-dock -o"
[04:22] <zack_> can someone help me make a server proxy
[04:24] <zack_> hello
[04:24] <zack_> any one
[04:25] <zack_> ip.<IP_ADDRESS> i want to mask
[04:25] <zack_> hello
[12:34] <thor480> lxqt-session is missing in lxqt ppa . Can someone contact jullian for that
[13:19] <thor480> phillw: Can you contact jullian
[18:29] <willwork4foo> Really impressed with the speed of this release. Running it on an old netbook with an N270 Atom processor and 2GB of RAM - feels instantaneous
[18:29] <willwork4foo> I also have a high-speed SSD as a hard drive in it - that helps ;-)
[18:32] <koell> it's like super pursuit mode
[18:32] <koell> :)
[18:34] <willwork4foo> trying to find where I set the desktop pager settings (number of desktops, etc) is challenging. Right-clicking on the desktop pager and choosing settings does nothing,
[18:35] <ianorlin> that is a bug I think
[18:35] <willwork4foo> yep
[18:35] <willwork4foo> I suspected as much.
[18:35] <phillw> thor480: the missing file will be added this evening (UTC).
[18:36] <ianorlin> go to menu prefrences then desktop prefrences
[18:36] <ianorlin> or from the command line if you know what file there is pcmanfm -w
[18:37] <thor480> phillw: you have contact jullian
[18:37] <willwork4foo> the pager options aren't in there.
[18:37] <phillw> thor480: no, I contacted Julien :P
[18:37] <ianorlin> oh then open openbox configuration manager
[18:38] <ianorlin> click on desktops tab
[18:38] <willwork4foo> there it was. Didn't spot that.
[18:38] <willwork4foo> Fixed - thanks
[18:38] <thor480> phillw: so lxqt-session is in the ppa tonight
[18:39] <phillw> thor480: as soon as he gets home from work.
[18:39] <thor480> phillw: big thank you
[18:40] <phillw> no worries, I don't often ping the boss when he's at work :)
[18:42]  * willwork4foo is a Solaris geek usually - exploring Lubuntu on this netbook because nothing else seems to run nicely on it
[18:44] <willwork4foo> brb
[23:58] <arsim> Hi
[23:58] <arsim> I have a HP envy x2
[23:59] <arsim> i can't boot from usb :/
[23:59] <arsim> nobody can help me ?


[01:02] <_MMA_> BHSPitLappy: Don't you have a Bamboo tablet?
[01:04] <_MMA_> nm. "DigiPro"
[01:08] <_MMA_> BHSPitLappy: Might help: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/TabletSetupWizardpen
[01:35] <BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, what makes you think I have $99 to spend on a tablet?  :P
[01:35] <_MMA_> There's nothing to make me think you don't.
[01:36] <_MMA_> And besides, there's always Ebay.
[01:49] <BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, I'd have sprung for the Bamboo if I could, but I nabbed the cheap Chinese crap
[01:49] <BHSPitLappy> $35 dolla
[03:26] <BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, have you used that driver?
[03:29] <BHSPitLappy> never mind, I goofed.
[03:40] <BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, hooray, it works
[03:40] <BHSPitLappy> awesome
[03:40] <BHSPitLappy> I'll add my model to that list
[03:41] <_MMA_> cool
[03:42] <_MMA_> And to answer your previous question, no. I'll only buy Wacom because they just work.
[04:03] <BHSPitLappy> lol
[04:04] <BHSPitLappy> I'd buy wacom too, if 1) The prices were a lot lower or 2) I actually needed a good tablet
[04:04] <BHSPitLappy> one of the two
[04:07] <BHSPitLappy> _MMA_, my first gimp+tablet+linux drawing!  And it's a children's book! http://img370.imageshack.us/my.php?image=treelu2.png
[04:08] <_MMA_> fun
[08:24] <BHSPitLappy> lol
[08:24] <BHSPitLappy> I like the person who commented on the /Incoming/Jaunty/AlphaBackgrounds page that the submissions weren't polished enough
[13:59] <kwwii> luisbg and _MMA_ at the same time, must have just gotten out of bed together
[13:59] <_MMA_> kwwii: mmmm.....
[13:59]  * _MMA_ loves harry Spanish geeks.
[14:00] <kwwii> he is only half-spanish iirc
[14:00] <kwwii> the islanders aren't really spanish, you know
[14:00] <_MMA_> OH!!
[14:00] <kwwii> I think he is half african or such
[14:00] <kwwii> :p
[14:00] <_MMA_> kwwii: Actually, I just rebooted my bip IRC proxy server we're both connected through.
[14:01] <_MMA_> (openssl update)
[14:01] <kwwii> hehe
[14:01] <luisbg> I'm african sized where it matters
[14:01] <luisbg> the rest of me is spanish
[14:02] <kwwii> oooooh, the part we all love to love!
[14:04] <luisbg> the same one
[14:04] <luisbg> love and caress
[14:05]  * savvas pulls the courtains for minors ;p
[14:05] <_MMA_> hehe
[14:06] <luisbg> savvas, :P
[14:06] <savvas> now we all know which address to attack to get back at _MMA_: cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com :P
[14:07] <_MMA_> bring it.
[14:08] <savvas> does anyone know if there's going to be anything fancy about inkscape in jaunty?
[14:09] <savvas> new features etc?
[14:09] <luisbg> no clue
[14:11] <_MMA_> savvas: Nothing will be different. Unless they really hurry on alot.
[14:11] <_MMA_> I'd just run SVN. Really easy to compile.
[14:14] <savvas> I'm still waiting for those how-to steps you promised! :)
[14:15] <_MMA_> 1 sec
[14:17] <_MMA_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/102188
[14:17] <_MMA_> savvas: That *should* work on a clean install. Makes a checkinstall deb.
[14:18] <_MMA_> When you get to the checkinstall questions, let me know.
[14:23] <savvas> woohoo!
[14:23] <savvas> thanks _MMA_ :)
[14:24] <savvas> I know to do it from here on :P
[14:24] <_MMA_> Cool
[14:25] <savvas> this is great, there should be a way to make a package that follows inkscape's svn, hmm..
[14:25] <_MMA_> savvas: The "make -j 2" part is specific to me. I have 2 core. So change that to suit.
[14:25] <savvas> ok
[14:25] <_MMA_> savvas: tedg is already working to get the Inkscape testers PPA back up.
[18:30] <_MMA_> kwwii: *PLEASE* unsub the various art teams from bug 99508. It's an nVidia issue.
[18:31] <_MMA_> (there are dupes)
[18:38] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, I should do that
[18:38] <kwwii> or someone else should :-)
[18:39] <_MMA_> Can I?
[18:39]  * _MMA_ didn't think he could.
[18:53] <kwwii> I think anyone on the team can, or?
[18:55] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/moon-inkscape.png
[18:55] <kwwii> what do you think of that?
[18:56] <kwwii> a pic for the nightly inkscape build launchpad page
[18:58]  * _MMA_ clicks
[18:59] <_MMA_> Inkscape logo feels a little big. But that's just personal pref.
[19:00] <kwwii> I will probably change the logo a bit to make it fit
[19:28] <kwwii> probably something more like http://sinecera.de/moon-inkscape1.png
[19:28] <kwwii> and with that, I am off to band practice
[19:34] <_MMA_> Rawk out!