[00:26] <paddy-melon> hi guys
[00:26] <paddy-melon> just thought id say thanks
[00:27] <paddy-melon> for giving us a second chance
[00:28]  * paddy-melon give applause
[00:28] <Pricey> paddy-melon: Noted.
[00:28] <paddy-melon> k
[00:28] <paddy-melon> thank you
[00:28] <paddy-melon> see ya
[00:28] <Pricey> Bye :)
[00:28] <Pricey> I assume I removed his ban during that cleanup. Perhaps prematurely, eyes on.
[00:29] <Pricey> @btlogin
[00:29] <Pricey> I can't log in at all. Even in query.
[00:37] <Pici> Er.. he was banned about 12 hours ago
[00:39] <Pricey> memory fails me
[01:22] <rww> Hola. freehugs in #ubuntu is /me'ing everyone that joins the channel. Probably a bot.
[01:24] <rww> Thanks :)
[01:24] <arleslie> FreeHugs in #ubuntu is a bot and keeps saying Hugs {Nick} can an OP remove it.
[01:29] <arleslie> freehugs is back in #ubuntu giving "freehugs" again
[01:34] <nalioth> the botmaster is among us  :(
[01:38] <elky> uid01, howie, are one of you running this rogue bot?
[01:40] <arleslie> Bioshock^ is spamming in #ubuntu
[01:56] <arand> user swoolley- is spamming in #ubuntu
[01:56] <arleslie> arand, swoolley was banned
[01:57] <arand> ok
[01:58] <nalioth> arleslie: no, swooley- was banned
[01:58] <nalioth> arleslie: trolls take nicks that are similiar to 'known nicks' in hopes the wrong person gets banned (creating further chaos)
[01:58] <arleslie> oh
[01:59] <howie> elky: naw but i changed my port and its working now
[01:59] <arleslie> no the nick was swoolley, I just check the messages
[01:59] <nalioth> arleslie: your client is fautly
[01:59] <nalioth> faulty, even
[02:02] <arleslie> 01:55] <swoolley-> JOIN ##POLITICS, WE NEED MORE USERS    ##POLITICS, EVERYBODY GETS LAID!  JOIN ##POLITICS, WE NEED MORE USER
[02:03] <nalioth> arleslie: yes, don't you see the - on the end?  (it's not an arrow)
[02:04] <nalioth> swooley is a long time respected member of the FLOSS community.  swooley- is a troll trying to drag his name through the mud
[02:04] <arleslie> the only reason why I said a difference because I didn't notice the - and you left out the extra l
[02:04] <nalioth> i type manually  :(
[02:05] <arleslie> so its swoolley-, so I was wrong, sorry about that
[02:06] <Pricey> #ubuntu looks lively
[02:07] <arleslie> umm, is ubottu, laged or was I ignored for some reason?
[02:07] <Pricey> Something does seem to be up.
[02:08] <Pricey> I'm sure it'll sort itself out given a few moments, else i'll kick it.
[02:09] <Pricey> there we go
[02:09] <arleslie> there
[02:09] <arleslie> that was strange
[02:09] <Pricey> stranger things have happenned
[02:10] <arleslie> well, this would only be my secound day helping so I wouldn't know
[03:32] <Pici> !ping
[03:45] <rww> Hi again. According to my logs, Grenfell, who's currently in #ubuntu-offtopic, has previously used the addresses user-0ccesmg.cable.mindspring.com and <IP_ADDRESS>, both of which are banned on that channel.
[03:45] <rww> The mindspring.com address has also been K-lined in the past. Therefore, it might be useful to keep an eye on him, if not kick him for ban evasion.
[03:47] <Pici> rww: I'll take a look at our bantracker.  Thanks for giving us the heads up.
[03:47] <Pici> That is... if it ever loads. /me waits
[03:48] <rww> Pici: You're welcome. The relevent dates and stuff are at http://pastebin.ca/1501678, if that helps. Thanks for your time :)
[03:56] <Pici> banned. But now is just giving me '?' in pm when I told them that the ban from July 10th wasn't removed.
[03:56] <Pici> Odd that they have a new ident now though.
[06:18] <morganangl_> this is kinda weird:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/223257/
[06:25] <morganangl_> did anyone here read what I pasted?
[06:27] <morganangl_> hello?
[06:28] <nalioth> no context, morganangl_
[06:42] <elky_work> nalioth, chances are he didnt have any other context, but it seems to me that someone threatened to blow him up for being USian
[06:53] <Flannel> bansearch padd1
[06:53] <Flannel> blah
[06:53] <padd1> what?
[06:53] <Flannel> padd1: How can we help you today?
[06:53] <padd1> oh
[06:53] <padd1> sorry, I'm trying to find JPDS
[06:53] <padd1> Me and my friend got banned
[06:53] <padd1> and I got let off but he didn't
[06:54] <Flannel> Alright.  We usually don't discuss bans by proxy, so he'll have to come in here and do this himself
[06:54] <padd1> by proxy?
[06:55] <Flannel> you coming in and talking about his ban for him
[06:55] <padd1> Oh, I was using paddy_melon
[06:55] <padd1> hey, right after the ban
[06:55] <padd1> he disappeared
[06:55] <padd1> and we can't get to him
[06:55] <padd1> it's been about 12 hrs at least
[06:55] <padd1> and we can't reach him
[06:55] <padd1> can't there be an exception
[06:56] <Flannel> If he's unreachable, being banned won't affect him at all.  Unless I'm misunderstanding.
[06:56] <padd1> no
[06:56] <padd1> jpds is unreachable
[06:57] <padd1> my friend is wanting to go on
[06:57] <Flannel> jpds: Your friend needs to come in here and discuss it then
[06:57] <padd1> I'm sorry
[06:57] <padd1> he just signed off
[06:57] <padd1> he had to do something
[06:57] <padd1> but, we're meant to meet up on IRC soon
[06:57] <padd1> and we'd need the ban to be lifted
[06:58] <Flannel> Then he'll need to come in here and discuss it
[06:58] <Flannel> Whenever he comes back on, not necessarily right now, obviously.
[06:59] <padd1> please, nn= bernardlychan
[07:00] <padd1> he's back on
[07:00] <padd1> one moment
[07:00] <padd1> sorry
[07:00] <padd1> I'm afraid he's been banned from here too
[07:01] <padd1> may U release that ban so we can discuss it
[07:01] <padd1> bernardlychan
[07:03] <padd1> please? Anybody?
[07:03] <padd1> Flannel?
[07:04] <Flannel> hold on
[07:04] <Flannel> bot's being slow
[07:04] <padd1> k
[07:05] <padd1> sorry
[07:05] <padd1> He couldn't wait
[07:05] <padd1> he gave up on the awful system
[07:06] <padd1> I guess I'll be talking to U guys later
[07:06] <padd1> over and out
[07:06] <Flannel> He's the one that needs to.
[07:06] <padd1> wait
[07:06] <padd1> he's back
[07:06] <Flannel> But also, he doesn't neen to be unbanned for you to talk to him.
[07:06] <padd1> no
[07:07] <padd1> yeah
[07:07] <padd1> k
[07:07] <padd1> yes we need the ubuntu
[07:07] <padd1> channel
[07:07] <padd1> please quickly unban him here
[07:07] <padd1> to discuss
[07:07] <padd1> at ops, not ubuntu
[07:09] <padd1> Please
[07:09] <elky> padd1, please have some manners and some patience.
[07:09] <padd1> k
[07:09] <padd1> I'm sorry
[07:09] <padd1> just my friend is tired
[07:09] <padd1> and leaving but, I want him to do this quickly
[07:09] <elky> padd1, then he should not have misbehaved.
[07:10] <padd1> k
[07:10] <Flannel> Hmm, your ban hasn't been removed either.  For the record.
[07:10] <elky> oh dear, he's not ban evading, is he?
[07:10] <padd1> what?
[07:10] <padd1> how did I get in then
[07:10] <padd1> I'm not evading
[07:10] <padd1> I'm on a different computer
[07:11] <padd1> but, this morning, I was using the same computer, nickname and all
[07:11] <elky> padd1, your ISP changed your ip address.
[07:11] <padd1> oh
[07:11] <padd1> sorry
[07:11] <padd1> i can't control
[07:11] <padd1> that
[07:11] <elky> padd1, you should leave the channel until jpds tells you that you are unbanned.
[07:11] <padd1> i assumed the ban had been lifted as I was talking to some ops
[07:11] <padd1> wait
[07:12] <elky> padd1, we dont read each other's minds
[07:12] <padd1> I'm banned from this channel?
[07:12] <padd1> or do U mean ubuntu
[07:12] <Flannel> Both.
[07:12] <elky> padd1, i mean #ubuntu.
[07:12] <padd1> oh right
[07:12] <padd1> I'm not on there
[07:12] <padd1> sorry
[07:12] <padd1> Um... what timezone is jpds on?
[07:12] <elky> Flannel, he's banned from here too?
[07:12] <elky> padd1, european.
[07:12] <padd1> We've been waiting a long time
[07:13] <Flannel> elky: <IP_ADDRESS>, yeah
[07:13] <padd1> and we didn't have a say
[07:13] <padd1> k
[07:13] <Flannel> they were both banned from here at the same time.
[07:13] <padd1> My ISP changed it...
[07:13] <padd1> does that happen often?
[07:13] <padd1> hmm... the fact U can access my ISP is a bit of a privacy risk
[07:14] <Flannel> You were asked to return in 24 hours...
[07:14] <padd1> and putting it out in an open chatroom...
[07:14] <Flannel> That was 17 hours ago.
[07:14] <padd1> that's a privacy risk
[07:14] <padd1> 17 hrs ago
[07:14] <padd1> no
[07:14] <elky> padd1, every website you visit can see your IP.
[07:14] <padd1> still
[07:14] <padd1> Ur not allowed to say it in a chatroom
[07:14] <Flannel> padd1: Yes, you were told to return in 24 hours, and it hasn't been 24 hours yet.
[07:14] <padd1> there is a law
[07:14] <elky> padd1, the inability to see would be a security risk for *them*
[07:15] <padd1> both...
[07:15] <padd1> hmm...
[07:15] <padd1> it's a security risk putting it open here though
[07:15] <elky> padd1, and as they are letting you be a guest on their systems, they have priority.
[07:15] <padd1> I'm fine with U seeing...
[07:15] <padd1> but not with other guests
[07:15] <elky> padd1, everyone can see every time you join a channel.
[07:15] <Flannel> padd1: I suggest you leave for another 7 hours, before you make it longer.
[07:15] <padd1> another 7 hrs
[07:15] <padd1> please
[07:16] <elky> padd1, if you are both tired, go sleep, when you wake, the 7 hours will be up.
[07:16] <padd1> That is a major flaw
[07:16] <padd1> I'm not tired
[07:16] <Flannel> yes, please indeed, please do what was requested of you.
[07:16] <padd1> it's 4 oclock in the friggin afternoon
[07:16] <padd1> please
[07:16] <elky> padd1, no.
[07:16] <padd1> k
[07:17] <padd1> I'm gonna have a chat to my lawyers
[07:17] <padd1> and i'll be in touch with canonical
[07:17] <Flannel> padd1: Hopefully it'll last at least seven hours.
[07:17] <elky> good luck.
[07:17] <elky> !appeals
[07:17] <padd1> OK
[07:17] <padd1> That's not what I'm talking about
[07:17] <padd1> anyway
[07:17] <padd1> I'm just joking
[07:17] <padd1> u guys are pretty nice
[07:18] <Flannel> padd1: We're not.  Seven hours.
[07:18] <padd1> gee
[07:18] <padd1> that's harsh
[07:18] <elky> mind you, the lawyers will take more than 7 hours to even respond, so, you either wait, or you wait. it's your choice.
[07:18] <padd1> hmm...
[07:18] <padd1> U got a point ther
[07:18] <padd1> e
[07:18] <padd1> U know of any good lawyers?
[07:18] <elky> sure, but they probably cost more than your pocket money too.
[07:18] <padd1> hmm... I know, I'll check the #legal channel
[07:18] <padd1> pocket money?
[07:19] <nalioth> padd1: is there anything further we can help you with?
[07:19] <padd1> WTF?
[07:19] <padd1> er...
[07:19] <padd1> just please reconsider the call
[07:19] <padd1> because JPDS is not on
[07:19] <elky> padd1, we'll reconsider it in 7 hours time.
[07:19] <nalioth> if not, please respect our /topic
[07:19] <padd1> Why was I banned for 7 hrs
[07:19] <padd1> I just asked others to help me since JPDS was offline... I never saw them banning
[07:20] <padd1> I logged off when they told me too
[07:20] <padd1> and I got banned
[07:20] <padd1> when does my #ubuntu ban end, BTW
[07:20] <elky> padd1, you were banned for 24 hours. so far you've only served 17 hours.
[07:20] <Flannel> padd1: Nothing will change until you come in here and discuss it, which will not happen for another seven hours at the earliest.
[07:21] <padd1> oh
[07:21] <padd1> so I still have to see U in 7hrs?
[07:21] <padd1> 7 hrs is midnight for me
[07:21] <padd1> please...
[07:21] <elky> padd1, jpds will probably be around then, which is when you got banned, and hence when you were on last time
[07:21] <padd1> yes
[07:22] <padd1> but why did he instantly leave when he banned us?
[07:22] <Flannel> padd1: You can also come back after seven hours, so maybe in 12, or 17 or something.
[07:22] <elky> padd1, if you can manage to get banned at midnight, you can manage to come here and apologise and get unbanned at midnight.
[07:22] <padd1> yes
[07:22] <padd1> but, it is at the end of the night
[07:22] <padd1> please
[07:22] <Flannel> padd1: See you in seven+ hours.  Stop talking and leave the channel now.  Good afternoon.
[07:22] <padd1> can U just take a look at the logs and reconsider the call
[07:23] <padd1> if the call stands, I'll come back
[07:23] <padd1> if not, please unban me
[07:23] <elky> padd1, you are harrassing us. i dont want to have to extend the ban for that.
[07:23] <padd1> harrassing U?
[07:23] <elky> yes.
[07:23] <Flannel> elky: He's already banned in here, why not ban his new host as well?
[07:23] <padd1> U released my IP publically?
[07:24] <padd1> and I'm the one who is harrassing?
[07:24] <elky> padd1, you do it every time you join a channel.
[07:24] <padd1> so what?
[07:24] <padd1> That does not matter
[07:24] <padd1> the legal annotations do not include posting
[07:24] <nalioth> padd1: please return at the requested time
[07:24] <padd1> maybe joining but, not posting
[07:24] <elky> padd1, you're talking rubbish.
[07:26] <elky> nalioth, let me guess, little birdie is whispering in your ear?
[07:26] <nalioth> of course  :)
[07:28] <elky> nalioth, if he does not stop within the next few minutes, his ban can be extended for another 24 for harrassment.
[07:28] <nalioth> oh, i'm sure something can be arranged
[07:29] <elky> nalioth, of course. harrassment is against Freenode rules, not just ours.
[07:30] <nalioth> elky: yes, but the staff is supposed to have thicker skin  . .
[07:30] <elky> nalioth, well, the harrassment is logged above
[07:30] <elky> he's just continuing it.
[07:30] <nalioth> noted
[07:33] <nalioth> padd1: your quiet will be removed shortly.  i suggest you depart the channel and return at the requested time
[07:36] <Flannel> Right.  So, looks like 7 hours from now may not be enough.
[07:37] <Flannel> well, for #u
[07:41] <padd1> hey guys
[07:42] <padd1> Just thought I'd say sorry
[07:42] <Flannel> padd1: What part of "don't come back for seven hours" don't you understand?
[07:42] <padd1> See ya in like 7 hrs
[07:42] <padd1> no
[07:42] <padd1> I'm leaving
[07:42] <padd1> OK
[07:42] <padd1> please don't harrass
[07:43] <padd1> me
[07:43] <padd1> that's harrassment just using normal words
[07:43] <padd1> they're harsh ones too
[07:45] <padd1> k
[07:45] <padd1> sorry once again
[07:45] <padd1> see ya
[08:56] <Gary> was that paddy|melon from yesterday?
[09:36] <Tm_T> weird kids, mentioning ip is an issue? :p
[10:25] <bernardlychan> hey wow i got unbanned from ubuntu-ops
[10:25] <bernardlychan> thanks to whoever did that
[10:29] <bernardlychan> could someone pleez unban me from ubuntu?
[11:10] <bernardlychan> hi
[11:10] <bernardlychan> anybody there?
[11:11] <bernardlychan> i guess not
[11:11] <bernardlychan> bye
[11:11] <bernardlychan> arrivedeci
[11:11] <bernardlychan> au revoir
[11:11] <bernardlychan> scienara
[11:12] <bernardlychan> ciao
[11:12] <bernardlychan> goodbte
[11:12] <bernardlychan> bye
[11:16] <ikonia> this is getting stupid now as an obvious troll
[11:35] <Gary> yep, I only unbanned as it's not my channel to set perm bans in
[11:35] <Gary> was hoping an overnight ban would help, ob. not
[13:02] <paddy_melon> hey
[13:03] <bazhang> paddy_melon, how can we help you
[13:03] <paddy_melon> umm
[13:03] <paddy_melon> id like to reconsider a ban
[13:03] <paddy_melon> to #ubuntu
[13:04] <bazhang> paddy_melon, ban evasion and use of bad language is not a good way to get that done
[13:04] <paddy_melon> ban evasion?
[13:04] <bazhang> as padd1 paddy_melon
[13:04] <paddy_melon> oh
[13:04] <paddy_melon> i was on a different computer
[13:05] <paddy_melon> i thought a ban worked by ip not nn
[13:05] <bazhang> that does not matter; it is still ban evasion
[13:05] <paddy_melon> i thought id been reconsidered
[13:05] <paddy_melon> but, i was told otherwise
[13:06] <paddy_melon> my isp changed my ip
[13:06] <Pici> bazhang: That was already discussed earlier.
[13:06] <paddy_melon> yes
[13:06] <bazhang> Pici, yep
[13:07] <paddy_melon> u said to come back later
[13:07] <paddy_melon> im here now
[13:07] <paddy_melon> and jpds still isnt online
[13:07] <Pici> paddy_melon: Are you aware of our channel guidelines?
[13:07] <paddy_melon> yes
[13:07] <paddy_melon> im sorry
[13:07] <Pici> paddy_melon: Enlighten me, what is #ubuntu for?
[13:08] <paddy_melon> ive read over them now
[13:08] <paddy_melon> #ubuntu
[13:08] <paddy_melon> i, for help and faq
[13:08] <paddy_melon> abput ubuntu
[13:09] <paddy_melon> ill be sure to follow it now
[13:09] <paddy_melon> i didnt know it was that severe
[13:10] <Pici> #ubuntu is the official support channel for Ubuntu, when people disrupt that support we take action.
[13:10] <paddy_melon> yes
[13:10] <paddy_melon> im sorry
[13:10] <paddy_melon> I have used it for support before
[13:10] <paddy_melon> and it is very good
[13:10] <paddy_melon> with so many users
[13:11] <paddy_melon> im surprised at the size of the ubuntu community...
[13:11] <Pici> Can you give me a moment, I'll be right back.
[13:11] <paddy_melon> ok
[13:11] <paddy_melon> thank you
[13:21] <majnoon> hi just seeing if i can get unbanned from ot channel ??
[13:21] <majnoon> was told one day been two weeks
[13:21] <paddy_melon> lol, poor guy
[13:23] <majnoon> 1st week was from being ignored in here ,2nd week was because i got madfor being ignored in here
[13:24] <paddy_melon> feel sorry for u, soz, not op
[13:25] <majnoon> i think MOST sleeping :(
[13:25] <paddy_melon> lol
[13:25] <paddy_melon> nah
[13:25] <paddy_melon> they're prett
[13:25] <paddy_melon> y cool
[13:26] <majnoon> going to stay until got SOME kind of answer ,even if to go F myself
[13:26] <paddy_melon> thats a good stance
[13:26] <Pici> paddy_melon: I'm going to unban you, but if you continue to act the way that you did before you will be banned again and we won't be so lenient the next time.
[13:27] <majnoon> Pici, thanks for help in #ubuntu
[13:27] <paddy_melon> ok
[13:27] <paddy_melon> thanks so much Pici
[13:27] <majnoon> can you please check into the ot ban for me please ??
[13:27] <paddy_melon> how bout my friend?
[13:28] <paddy_melon> he did it with me
[13:28] <paddy_melon> bernardlychan
[13:28] <Pici> I need to take care of something else here at work so I cannot look at that ban right now.
[13:28] <Pici> Sorry. I'll return in about 15 minutes or so.
[13:28] <paddy_melon> ok
[13:28] <paddy_melon> sorry for bothering
[13:29] <majnoon> just LOOK into it (after 2 weeks 15-20 minutes NOTHING)
[13:30] <paddy_melon> lol
[13:30] <paddy_melon> ill be back with my friend later
[13:30] <paddy_melon> see u guys
 bazhang: kick me if you wish
[13:45] <topyli> majnoon: several ops have been dealing with you. i'm one of them, so i might as well have a word
[13:46] <majnoon> ok USUALLY i'm quiet
[13:46] <topyli> looks like you are usually in trouble for your jokes. do you realize why they are not well received on ubuntu channels?
[13:46] <majnoon> MOST of the length of ban was i got mad in HERE
[13:46] <gnomefreak> i added a frub2 factoid per request
[13:47] <majnoon> thought was semi-safe in offtopic channel
[13:47] <topyli> oh joking is quite welcome. not all jokes are appropriate though
[13:48] <majnoon> i DO have some problems with that i have a form of autism
[13:50] <topyli> i'm not very interested in the reasons. what i would like to know is that you keep offensive language off ubuntu channels, joke or no joke
[13:50] <majnoon> ok THAT i can see
[13:52] <topyli> so here's the thing. you are now unbanned on -ot. you will be banned again of course, if there is a reason
[13:52] <topyli> deal?
[13:52] <bazhang> ah Grub2
[13:53] <majnoon> sounds good
[13:53] <majnoon> ok i go now
[13:53] <topyli> ok, have fun
[14:06] <Pici> lag, I guess.
[14:07] <Pici> arleslie: Can we help you with something?
[14:07] <arleslie> no, im just here
[14:07] <arleslie> do I need to leave if I don't need anything?
[14:07] <Pici> !idle
[14:19] <bazhang> ubottu, lag
[14:21] <bazhang> wow 5 min lag in #ubuntu
[14:59] <ikonia> I had quite bad lag for a while too
 Or use lmgtfy... http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+google   ;)  wish the bots had an auto-kick for that
[15:02] <ikonia> it wasn't intended, he knows that
[15:24] <ikonia> jussi01: Pricey  Pici nalioth elky ubottu is hung
[15:24] <Pricey> happenned last night too
[15:25] <Pricey> wierd....
[15:25] <ikonia> Pricey: ahhh so you're responsible then ;)
[15:25] <arleslie> is ubottu laged again?
[15:25] <Pricey> "I can't find an instance of the bot running
[15:27] <ikonia> i guess the nick in channel is lag/ghost /
[15:27] <ikonia> arleslie: yup, we know about it, thank you
[15:27] <ikonia> whoaaaaaa
[15:28] <arleslie> is ubottu on every ubuntu channel?
[15:29] <ikonia> most of the official ones
[15:29] <ikonia> or the "core" ones
[15:29] <arleslie> how many channels is that?
[15:29] <ikonia> no idea of the top of my head
[15:29] <ikonia> whois the bot
[15:29] <arleslie> becuase if the same bot is on more then 4 channels receiving commands, that would be a good reason for it to lag
[15:29] <ikonia> nah, it can normally cope fine
[15:30] <arleslie> according to whois, it's only on two channels
[15:30] <ikonia> ahh it's mode +i - it's on many more
[15:31] <arleslie> oh
[16:19] <bernardlychan> hi
[16:19] <ikonia> hello
[16:19] <bernardlychan> yea i swore yesterday in ubuntu channel
[16:19] <ikonia> yes, we know
[16:19] <bernardlychan> sozza
[16:20] <bernardlychan> wont do it again
[16:20] <ikonia> I assume you mean "sorry"
[16:20] <bernardlychan> yea sorry
[16:20] <ikonia> I'd appreciate it if you could talk in clear english so there is no missunderstanding
[16:20] <bernardlychan> k
[16:20] <ikonia> thank you
[16:21] <bernardlychan> o sorry. i mean okay
[16:21] <ikonia> what about the behaviour of yourself and your friend paddy in this channel, constantly arguing, refusing to leave, to the point of getting banned from this channel
[16:21] <bernardlychan> um yea. kind of silly
[16:21] <ikonia> yes, it was
[16:22] <bernardlychan> we didnt mean to cause any harm
[16:22] <ikonia> no, but you did mean to cause a disruption and be a pain
[16:23] <bernardlychan> yea we tried to get ourselves unbanned. anyway, it wasnt my idea to pm all the ops. he did that
[16:23] <ikonia> no you didn't try to get unbanned, you tried to cause a disruption and purposfully annoy people
[16:24] <bernardlychan> ? sorry but i think theres a misunderstanding. we tried quite hard to get ourselves unbanned
[16:25] <bernardlychan> could u pleese unban me? uve unbanned paddy
[16:25] <ikonia> no
[16:25] <ikonia> I don't think there is a missunderstanding
[16:25] <bernardlychan> i promise i wont muck around any more
[16:25] <ikonia> ou caused a disruption, and kept causing a distruption in here despite being given clear instructions
[16:26] <bernardlychan> o yea. that was stupid of us. but the whole aim was to persuade u guys. sorry.
[16:26] <ikonia> well you failed and got yourself banned
[16:27] <bernardlychan> how come paddy has been unbanned?
[16:27] <ikonia> I have no confidence at the moment that you will be able to control yourself or follow instructions.
[16:27] <ikonia> bernardlychan: Paddy's ban is not your concern, we are only dealing with yours
[16:27] <bernardlychan>  i will. if i dont, then u can just ban me permanently after that
[16:28] <ikonia> I don't need to ban you - you are already banned
[16:28] <ikonia> I'd have a lot more faith if you where just honest about things,
[16:28] <bernardlychan> ok ill be honest
[16:29] <bernardlychan> we were silly and trying to annoy both in the ubuntu and ubuntu-ops.
[16:29] <ikonia> ok - so now you have to pay the consiquences of that,
[16:29] <bernardlychan> ive paid.
[16:29] <ikonia> but thank you for at least saying it, but you shouldn't have to be asked
[16:29] <ikonia> bernardlychan: no - you've not, you HAD to be removed from multiple channels yesterday, that's not paying the price that's us sorting you out as an issue
[16:29] <ikonia> we had no choice but to remove you due to your behaviour
[16:30] <bernardlychan> multiple?
[16:30] <ikonia> bernardlychan: yes, ubuntu and ubuntu-ops
[16:30] <bernardlychan> o rite ic
[16:31] <ikonia> bernardlychan: for me personally you can stay out of the #ubuntu channel for the rest of the week at least, and in future I suggest you try being a bit more honest
[16:31] <bernardlychan> ubuntu: trying to be silly and annoy and play joke on paddy. ops: tried to unban ourselves then tried too hard and ended up annoying u
[16:32] <ikonia> well, for me as I've said I have no faith in you at the moment, so for me personally you can stay out of the channel for the rest of the week. Paddy is in #ubuntu and his ban has been lifted I feel that letting you both back in together at this time would be a mistake
[16:33] <bernardlychan> didnt jpds do that?
[16:33] <ikonia> no, pici removed the ban earlier
[16:34] <ikonia> bernardlychan: I suggest you come back on Friday 24th of this month and someone will review the ban then
[16:34] <bernardlychan> i came here to be honest not to lie. when we first came to ubuntu ops we had no intention watsoeva to annoy! we even apologised for evrything. then we started to annoy u after wards
[16:35] <ikonia> bernardlychan: no problem, then revisit the channel on Friday and I'm sure someone will review it then
[16:35] <bernardlychan>  o cmon. cant u just ban me for another day?
[16:35] <ikonia> no
[16:36] <ikonia> please don't argue this
[16:36] <bernardlychan> sigh
[16:36] <ikonia> Anything else ?
[16:36] <bernardlychan> yea one more sorry
[16:36] <ikonia> appreciated, thank you
[16:37] <bernardlychan> if i change my ip address, will i escape the ban or will i have to change my nick as well?
[16:37] <ikonia> we'll speak to you on friday 24th then
[16:37] <ikonia> bernardlychan: if you chose to try to ban evade that is your decision, but you will be reported to the freenode staff and delt with by them at a network level
[16:38] <ikonia> bernardlychan: trying to dodge a ban just proves you are not to be trusted now,
[16:38] <bernardlychan> hmm ok. but could u pleez answer my question?
[16:38] <ikonia> bernardlychan: no
[16:38] <bernardlychan> o ok then.
[16:38] <ikonia> this discussion is now over until friday where your intention to dodge the ban has been noted.
[16:39] <bernardlychan> bye! im going to bed now after i watch a movie.
[16:39] <ikonia> bye
[16:39] <bernardlychan> the movies really good
[16:39] <ikonia> bye
[16:39] <bernardlychan> u should see it
[16:39] <ikonia> Please leave the channel
[16:39] <bernardlychan> its called harry potter . o ok bye
[16:39] <ikonia> I've updated BT
[16:42] <jpds> Why does he have the habit of coming on when I'm not actually around?
[16:42] <ikonia> lucky
[18:36] <ryanakca> Could whoever runs ubot2 and ubottu turn bug announcing off on one of them please? They're spammy...
 bug 123\n<ubottu> bug 123 in .....\n<ubot2> bug 123 in ....\n<ubottu> bug 123 in ....\n<ubot2> bug 123 in ...       , etc.
[18:37] <Pici> ryanakca: What channel?
[18:37] <ryanakca> Pici: sorry, #kubuntu-devel
[18:38] <Pici> jpds: ping ^
[18:43]  * Pici waits for the bot
[18:44] <Pici> !ping
[18:55]  * nalioth blinks
[19:34] <Pici> oh boy
[20:50] <jpds> ryanakca, Pici: 18:56:08 [!] ubott2<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has quit [Remote closed the connection]
[20:50] <jpds> Pici: ubot2 lives in London.
[20:52] <Pici> jpds: eh? ubot2, not ubott2
[20:52] <Pici> I didn't even know we had a ubott2
[20:52] <jpds> Yes, ubottu was being dumb.
[20:52] <jpds> Note: .fi.
[20:53] <Pici> Er, right.
[21:00] <Pici> Two people have asked me today if I'm a robot.
[21:05] <Seeker`> Pici: are you a robot?
[21:05] <Flannel> Pici: are you a robot?
[21:05] <Pici> Seeker`: I'm only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent.
[21:05] <Pici> Flannel: I'm only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent.
[21:05] <Seeker`> Pici: I'm only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent.
[21:05] <Pici> :P
[21:06] <Flannel> Oh no, they're stuck in an infinite loop
[21:21] <jpds> Flannel: Someone wants you in #ubuntu-uk.
[21:22] <jpds> "21:18:12 < ~Paul2> a cold wet flannel would be quite nice now :S"
[21:27] <Flannel> Well, well, aren't I a popular one.  Although, I'm not entirely sure the adjectives are flattering...
[23:14] <erUSUL> someone taking a look in #ubuntu argentinian flooders strike back
[23:40] <Flannel> bernardlychan: How can we help you?
[23:46] <jpds> Can someone please deal with him and his friend for me?
[23:46] <jpds> Seriously, I am _never_ around when they spam my away log..
[23:48]  * jpds beds


[05:42] <linocisco> hi all
[05:43] <linocisco> I can't print to Canon LBP 3050 via USB
[06:11] <linocisco> got error " Idle - ccp send_data error, exit"
[06:14] <linocisco> lpadmin: Printer drivers are deprecated and will stop working in a future version of CUPS.
[06:14] <linocisco> lpadmin: Unable to copy PPD file.
[06:21] <alkisg> linocisco: printer drivers are the same for all ubuntu flavors, so you might want to ask in #ubuntu as well, that has more people
[06:22] <linocisco> yes. I am also asking there
[06:22] <alkisg> ok


[02:03] <arraybolt3[m]> Whew! Finished the GUI hookups, and working on making the "repair interrupted installation" part allow a config file to be overwritten. I think this is almost ready for testing!
[03:22] <arraybolt3[m]> Well, shoot. I can't make even this fix perfect, though it's close. Sadly, while apt_client.upgrade_system() provides the config-file-conflict interface, apt_client.fix_incomplete_install() does not. Even though dpkg --configure -a provides a config file prompt. Unless they're using different terminology here (which is possible but seems to me unlikely), there's no way to make the worst case scenario here end up with the
[03:22] <arraybolt3[m]> proper config file in place. It does, however, allow the user to unbreak their system after a failed upgrade and force-reboot.
[03:25] <arraybolt3[m]> And I'm not seeing an "other config-file-conflict" anywhere in the help manual. So... I guess that means that's as far as we can get. Not ideal, but way, way better than what we had before, and about on par with the default behavior of Discover. (Actually this is a bit better than Discover since it seems that Discover just says "no, keep the original config file, don't overwrite" no matter what, and Lubuntu's upgrader only does
[03:25] <arraybolt3[m]> that in the event it has to fix a busted upgrade.)
[03:27] <arraybolt3[m]> Dan Simmons: I'm going to package this up, get together SRU backports, and then in the interest of time, I think I should just upload it to Lunar immediately and begin the SRU process, at which point things will get plenty of peer review. (I do have to backport it to Focal, I think, so I'm still a good deal away from uploading.) Does that seem like a good idea to you? If you have time, I can put this somewhere you can see it while
[03:27] <arraybolt3[m]> I'm doing the rest of everything.
[03:36] <arraybolt3[m]> ...I can't create a pull request in Gitea?
[03:37] <arraybolt3[m]> Welp, whatever. Here's the code. https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lubuntu-update-notifier/compare/ubuntu/lunar...arraybolt3/upgrade_repair <-- Dan Simmons
[03:38] <arraybolt3[m]> (Took me an embarrassingly long amount of time to finally get that done, but I guess I was working with a mostly unfamiliar codebase and tools.)
 "Dan Simmons: I'm going to..." <- I actually won't upload this without peer review, given the fact that this *is* mostly unfamiliar to me and the changes I made were on the rather complex side, I think that's actually a bad idea.
[03:46] <arraybolt3[m]> And last but not least, a PPA with the hopefully finished updater: https://launchpad.net/~arraybolt3/+archive/ubuntu/lubuntu-upgrader-test2/+packages
[03:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (I just uploaded that, so give it a good while before trying to use it from there.)
[03:47] <arraybolt3[m]> (The one that's already there is an earlier iteration.)
[03:57] <arraybolt3[m]> teward: If you want to review the latest chaos of this, I'd welcome your input and coffee too.
 "Well, shoot. I can't make even..." <- fix_incomplete_install() returns an ActTransaction object which can be connected appropriately
[04:46] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: Well, even when connected, it didn't actually call the function.
[04:47] <arraybolt3[m]> I basically had `self.trans3.connect("config-file-conflict", self.config_file_conflict))`, it executed the script just fine but never showed the window.
[04:48] <arraybolt3[m]> (And I did make sure that self.config_file_conflict was compatible with the fix_incomplete_install transaction, which required a very slight tweak, so it should have worked.)
[04:48] <tsimonq2> Did you set the correct debconf frontend? Perhaps it's assuming no such frontend exists to prompt the user
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> I forgot to do that!
[04:49] <tsimonq2> See line 373
[04:49] <tsimonq2> Willing to bet things will work after that :)
[04:49] <arraybolt3[m]> You're right, you set a debconf frontend in the upgrade() function. I noticed that and intended to do that, then forgot.
[04:49]  * arraybolt3[m] tests
[04:58] <arraybolt3[m]> Simon Quigley: Sadly, it's still skipping over that part silently, it looks like.
[04:58]  * arraybolt3[m] sent a code block: https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/fe79f442a8bbf5d4dc1100646bf01fb340bf4e4c
[04:58] <arraybolt3[m]> That's my code.
[05:00] <tsimonq2> It's in two separate lines :)
[05:01] <arraybolt3[m]> (I do have the except clause, I just forgot to paste it :P)
[05:01] <arraybolt3[m]> tsimonq2: ? I only see the one in the original code.
[05:01] <tsimonq2> I need some sleep, figured I'd pop my head in though. I'll give you a more thoughtful response over the weekend, for now I'll leave reviewing to Dan and Thomas :)
[05:01] <arraybolt3[m]> 👍, sounds good!
[05:03] <tsimonq2> arraybolt3[m]: Lines 7 + 10 in the code you just pasted lol
[05:03] <tsimonq2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[05:03] <tsimonq2> Anyway good night for real
[05:05] <arraybolt3[m]> Still missing something, but I'm sure we'll figure it out later. See you soon!
[05:06] <arraybolt3[m]> Oh now I see it. Lol. Alright, that explains something.
[16:39] <teward> why was i pinged for code review again?
[16:39] <teward> *yawns*
[16:41] <arraybolt3> teward: Simon's gone, you and Dan are the only other Lubuntu developers other than me, who needed code review :P
[16:43] <RikMills> teward: the ChatGPT bot was busy?
[16:44]  * RikMills runs
[16:44] <arraybolt3> RikMills: SHHHH, don't tell him how I wrote that!
[16:55] <teward> lol
[16:56] <teward> arraybolt3: what exactly needs reviewed, i'm lazy and don't want to scroll back :p
[16:56] <teward> note i'm at work in the office today so completely different dynamic as a result today for how availabel I am
[17:29] <arraybolt3> teward: One moment...
[17:30] <arraybolt3[m]> teward: https://git.lubuntu.me/Lubuntu/lubuntu-update-notifier/compare/ubuntu/lunar...arraybolt3/upgrade_repair
[17:31] <arraybolt3[m]> Note that the "config-file-conflict" feature in the repair_install() function doesn't actually work - I think it's a limitation of aptd, but hopefully it can be made to work somehow. (The config-file-conflict feature of the upgrade() function in Simon's code works just fine.)
[17:39] <teward> i'll let smeone else audit the code, i'm not as familiar with the GUI side of things :P
[17:39] <teward> so kc2bez is up
[17:39] <teward> or ytou can wait for SImon who seems to be active doing bug work right now
[17:39] <teward> *points at bug mail*
[17:39] <teward> in the meantime
[17:39] <teward> lunch
[18:09]  * tsimonq2 pops in for like 5 minutes\
[18:10] <tsimonq2> I needed to do something to wake up this morning that was code related to get my mind in gear :P
[18:10] <tsimonq2> also
[18:10] <tsimonq2> I think the best step forward may just be to look at other implementations of the debconf frontend
[18:10] <tsimonq2> Specifically to see how they handle such a case
[18:11] <tsimonq2> So, looking at update-manager to see if they support recovering an interrupted install, and if they do, how they plug that frontend in
[18:11] <tsimonq2> That's certainly not an easy task
[18:11] <tsimonq2> BUT
[18:11] <tsimonq2> it should give us a step forward
[18:40] <teward> no rush i can force SImon to look at it later :P
[18:40] <teward> muahahahahah
[19:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I don't think debconf and the config file conflict are related...
[19:36] <arraybolt3[m]> I mean when I see a debconf message, it shows up in a TUI with "buttons" and stuff, not a prompt that waits for the user to make a choice by pressing a key.
[19:40] <arraybolt3[m]> I suppose it would be worth looking at the aptd code to see how it behaves differently (perhaps they also made a "eh, we'll implement this feature later" decision?).
[19:45]  * arraybolt3[m] looks through aptd code and is somewhat perplexed by how many "tunnels" these commands seem to have to go through
[19:46] <arraybolt3[m]> Ugh, because it has to talk over DBus with this miserably complicated set of info. Sheesh, why not just use a UNIX socket?!
[19:47]  * arraybolt3[m] doesn't even understand why DBus exists, but whatever
[19:59] <arraybolt3[m]> Alright, finally found it. And as I feared, it appears this is an aptd limitation.
[20:00] <arraybolt3[m]> In aptdaemon-0.43/aptdaemon/progress.py:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/6be4a22bc6566e91628463ac842442d888683e83>)
[20:00] <arraybolt3[m]>  * In aptdaemon-0.43/aptdaemon/progress.py:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/f51e6a9b024b70a0b978dac4901723af438bb2fc>)
[20:00] <arraybolt3[m]> Now later, in the same file:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/ab921b8c38a9b4c71a427d97bb5ffe4f8058440e>)
[20:01] <arraybolt3[m]> This is the class that appears to handle installation and upgrades, if I'm not mistaken. Notice lines 41-45, that's where it handles config file conflicts, again, if I'm understanding correctly.
[20:01] <arraybolt3[m]> Then, just after that:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/784d6f3cb2e542a52190671bdbe69d7d2a6252ad>)
[20:02] <arraybolt3[m]> That's what handles the fix_incomplete_install() call. And... guess what --force-confdef --force-confold does. Yep, it handles answering those prompts automatically and doesn't display them to the user.
[20:02] <arraybolt3[m]> (That's in line 10.)
[20:03] <arraybolt3[m]> So, basically, aptd does not provide a config-file-conflict interface that works for the transaction given by a fix_incomplete_install() call.
[20:04] <arraybolt3[m]>  * In aptdaemon-0.43/aptdaemon/progress . py:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/732a195c5172bf89389d836f87918265e62bb6f2>)
[20:04] <arraybolt3> BTW this looks like utter chaos in IRC. View it on Matrix if at all possible.
[20:06] <arraybolt3[m]> So now the question is... can we add functionality to aptd too? I think the answer is no - just the changes to lubuntu-update-notifier are pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable for an SRU. If we start hacking aptd's guts too, I think we're going to get the SRU rejected, since this could come with a high regression risk.
[20:06] <arraybolt3[m]> (And depending on whether aptd requires a script to fully set up or not, it might not even be technically possible to modify it as well, though I haven't checked that.)
[20:21] <arraybolt3[m]> It appears that AptDaemon is GPL-2 code, so for log readers, the code pasted above is GPL-2 licensed.


[01:19] <cjb> Hi!  Are there any Ubuntu X packages with mpx available?
[02:52] <bryce> cjb: not yet
[02:55] <bryce> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/2438454269_a3489e2235.jpg
[08:57] <pwnguin> so what are the rules for marking a bug "confirmed" when I can't duplicate it?


[00:45] <Aussie_matt_ubu> anyone know if someones gonna bring kde1 to kubuntu?
[04:08] <fayaz> Hi, I am having trouble switching to intel from nvidia-367 (using prime-select intel). Switching to intel gives black screen. Running kubuntu 16.10
[04:14] <fayaz> lspci output https://paste.kde.org/pdqw755ig
[04:17] <valorie> fayaz: please ask on #ubuntu -- it's a bigger channel, and not a kubuntu difficulty in particular
[04:18] <fayaz> valorie: okay
[04:42] <AIvaroMolina> A   L   V   A   R   O       M   O   L   I   N   A
[04:42] <AIvaroMolina> A   L   V   A   R   O       M   O   L   I   N   A
[04:42] <AIvaroMolina> A   L   V   A   R   O       M   O   L   I   N   A
[04:42] <AIvaroMolina> A   L   V   A   R   O       M   O   L   I   N   A
[04:42] <AIvaroMolina> A   L   V   A   R   O       M   O   L   I   N   A
[05:10] <ForgeAus> if I am running Trusty, what happens if I update my repos to Xenial and not specifically do a dist-upgrade?...
[05:12] <ForgeAus> (I'm asking to get some idea of how this affects WSL ... because it doesn't have a kernel etc... at least not in the filesystem, it probably runs a s a part of the lsxx program on the windows side somehow... )
[05:13] <ForgeAus> so upgrading whatever part of it are ubuntu packages to = the Xenial ones does that in effect upgrade to Xenial from Trusty or not?
[05:15] <jubo2> G'morning.
[05:15] <jubo2> How do I stop the screen from locking due to inactivity?
[05:16] <jubo2> I though I just untick certain boxes in the energy saving setting but this stupid machine still locks the screen shortly after inactivity
[05:16] <jubo2> Just reporting that Kubuntu 16.10 will start with 1GB
[05:17] <jubo2> but it is not much fun besides shells and one Konversation
[05:17] <jubo2> I getting 2GB more to this as I figure out some money
[05:19] <WannaRunFog> Hi all.  Dunno if I'm blind, but I can't find the system requirements listed for 16.10.  Can someone share this?  Thanks
[05:47] <valorie> ForgeAus: that's a rather dangerous way to upgrade
[05:48] <valorie> apt/dpkg are there to keep your system safe
[05:48] <valorie> jubo2: search for lock in krunner
[05:48] <valorie> alt+f2
[05:48] <ForgeAus> who said anything about not using apt/dpkg?
[05:48] <valorie> or alt+space
[05:49] <valorie> well, you would be circumventing it
[05:49] <ForgeAus> no
[05:49] <ForgeAus> if you update trusty to xenial in the repos, upgrades still run through apt/dpkg
[05:50] <ForgeAus> the dist-upgrade uses apt/dpkg too
[05:50] <valorie> I've done an upgrade that way one: to get to the next version when it's just been open for development
[05:50] <ForgeAus> (it might do its own other stuff as well... part of that process is exactly that, updating the repos)
[05:50] <valorie> in other words, a mere change of names
[05:50] <paranoidabhi> hi
[05:50] <valorie> yes, but there are built-in checks
[05:50] <ForgeAus> probably yes
[05:50] <paranoidabhi> how can I update to kubuntu 16.10 from terminal.
[05:51] <paranoidabhi> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YakketyUpgrades/Kubuntu
[05:51] <valorie> you would be removing part of those checks
[05:51] <ForgeAus> it also knows the list of packages to add/remove
[05:51] <paranoidabhi> ^ the above link uses discover
[05:51] <paranoidabhi> sudo apt dist-upgrade does nothing.
[05:51] <ForgeAus> its not just apt
[05:51] <valorie> ForgeAus: also, that is an upgrade from Plasma 4 to Plasma 5
[05:51] <ForgeAus> its apt-get paranoiddabhi
[05:51] <valorie> it's really better to do a backup and fresh install
[05:51] <paranoidabhi> ForgeAus, ?
[05:52] <valorie> paranoidabhi: what are you running now?
[05:52] <paranoidabhi> kubuntu 16.04
[05:52] <paranoidabhi> ForgeAus, apt also works :)
[05:52] <valorie> paranoidabhi: step one, fully update
[05:52] <paranoidabhi> valorie, yeah done.
[05:52] <valorie> `sudo ap update && sudo apt dist-upgrade`
[05:52] <valorie> ok
[05:53] <valorie> then you need to uncheck the LTS in muon package manager or discover
[05:53] <fomalhaut-XII> hm, hello. Does anyone know of a small (under 200mb) linux rescue disk? My system disk died and I urgently need to get some data out of my /home, but i just got mobile data to download. i tried asking in other channels but no one answers, and I am running out of battery. sorry for being slightly off-topic but I am seriously out of options
[05:53] <valorie> I don't know an easy way to do that via the commandline since it involves editing a file
[05:53] <valorie> !rescue | fomalhaut-XII
[05:54] <valorie> oops
[05:54] <ForgeAus> fomalhaut - I guess you could check out PuppyLinux ...
[05:54] <paranoidabhi> valorie, changing the discover somehow doesn't reflect in the cmdline.
[05:54] <paranoidabhi> can you tell what config file to edit.
[05:54] <valorie> paranoidabhi: then do `sudo do-release-upgrade`
[05:56] <fomalhaut-xii_> damn, webchat kicked me out somehow
[05:56] <fomalhaut-xii_> anyway as i was saying
[05:56] <ForgeAus> PuppyLinux is not always an ubuntu-based system but it might be enough to get you out of trouble or at least read your drives...
[05:56] <fomalhaut-xii_> puppy linux seems it could work, but does it read ext4?
[05:56] <ForgeAus> should be able to
[05:56] <fomalhaut-xii_> I literally just need to read a single file, to retrieve the password for the shared wifi here
[05:57] <ForgeAus> but I'm not about to guarantee it, you might need some more research there but I doubt that will be a problem
[05:57] <fomalhaut-xii_> after that i can just download a kubuntu 16.10 install from wifi
[05:57] <paranoidabhi> is there any news on kde5.8 in kubuntu?
[05:57] <ForgeAus> PCLinuxOS had a minime too but I don't know if it was smaller than 200mb
[05:57] <ForgeAus> and its an even more foreign system than puppy
[05:57] <paranoidabhi> will it available in kubuntu 16.10 or 16.04 sometime soon?
[05:58] <valorie> paranoidabhi: we're planning it as soon as possible
[05:58] <valorie> for 16.10 at lease
[05:58] <valorie> least
[05:58] <fomalhaut-xii_> I am running out of battery, so I don't have much time for research, unfortunately. Any small rescue disk will do, as long as it's small enough to download on cell phone data
[05:58] <paranoidabhi> valorie, cool
[05:58] <valorie> since there is a new enough Qt version
[05:58] <ForgeAus> valorie, note: plasma5 is one of the reasons I was thinking of going Xenial
[05:58] <valorie> unsure if they will update the LTS with a new enough Qt
[05:59] <valorie> that's not up to us
[05:59] <paranoidabhi> valorie, but how does neon do it with 16.04?
[05:59] <paranoidabhi> don't hey have the same old qt
[05:59] <paranoidabhi> hey-they
[06:00] <valorie> paranoidabhi: they don't have to care about Ubuntu
[06:00] <paranoidabhi> valorie, why?
[06:00] <fomalhaut-xii_> is there any other channel I can go for help? I tried #linux but i can't send messages there for some reason. (i just made out this nickname on the spot, so I don't think it's banned or anything)
[06:00] <valorie> because they only use the Ubuntu core -- they are not a flavor
[06:00] <fomalhaut-xii_> my battery i literally on the red
[06:00] <valorie> fomalhaut-xii_: try https://www.system-rescue-cd.org/SystemRescueCd_Homepage
[06:00] <paranoidabhi> won't the packages break with qt conflicts?
[06:00] <valorie> it's small enough to fit on a CD
[06:01] <valorie> paranoidabhi: they respin everything
[06:01] <fomalhaut-xii_> sounds very good but it's huge, I don't have enough data to download it :(
[06:01] <valorie> qt has nothing to do with the ubuntu base
[06:01] <paranoidabhi> valorie, sry for lack of info. can you explain the difference btw ubuntu core and ubuntu flavor.
[06:01] <ForgeAus> note Valorie the current WSL (or what I think of as lxss) doesn't have dist-upgrade support yet... I think the insider preview of Windows10's version does... so its likely the next full release win10 upgrade will too... (also chroot support) ...
[06:01] <fomalhaut-xii_> cell phone service in my country is kind of crap, i got 600mb only, and i probably alreadyused 150-200 looking around
[06:02] <valorie> the flavors are unity-desktop, kubuntu, lubuntu, MATE, gnome-desktop, etc.
[06:02] <ForgeAus> but currently without that I'm not sure if it can go from Trusty to Xenial ...
[06:02] <valorie> all part of the ubuntu community
[06:02] <valorie> neon is not part of that
[06:02] <valorie> ForgeAus: you CAN
[06:03] <valorie> I've done it
[06:03] <ForgeAus> oh :) ok
[06:03] <ForgeAus> so just update the repos then?
[06:03] <valorie> however, it is best to back up, and do a fresh install
[06:03] <ForgeAus> a fresh install will install trusty
[06:03] <valorie> you are likely to break your system that way
[06:03] <ForgeAus> with my current version of win10
[06:03] <ForgeAus> (I don't have the insider preview)
[06:03] <valorie> ForgeAus: ? you can download any of the ISOs
[06:03] <ForgeAus> and I'm not looking to get it
[06:04] <paranoidabhi> valorie, ok, but am unsure how that relates to the qt conflict/
[06:04] <ForgeAus> I can download an ISO but which one,  and why?
[06:04] <valorie> if you want xenial, download that
[06:04] <valorie> it is much faster, for starters
[06:04] <valorie> a fresh install is fresh
[06:05] <ForgeAus> valorie I think you are failing to realize something
[06:05] <valorie> paranoidabhi: Ubuntu uses Qt for unity and for their phone project
[06:05] <ForgeAus> I didn't install trusty from an ISO either
[06:05] <ForgeAus> it isn't exactly a full Trusty...
[06:05] <valorie> they do not want to upgrade Qt as fast as we want it
[06:05] <valorie> oh, you are using wubi?
[06:05] <ForgeAus> no
[06:06] <valorie> wubi afaik is dead
[06:06] <ForgeAus> its Windows 10's relatively recent Services for Linux (an ubuntu subsystem built into windows 10)
[06:06] <valorie> ah
[06:06] <ForgeAus> it doesn't even have a kernel in the filesystem
[06:06] <valorie> gotcha
[06:06] <valorie> I haven't a clue
[06:06] <valorie> !win
[06:06] <valorie> um
[06:06] <paranoidabhi> valorie, but kubuntu doesn't have unity, so why does qt change matter?
[06:06] <ForgeAus> which is why it doesn't have dist-upgrade support yet
[06:06] <valorie> !ubu-win
[06:06] <valorie> huh
[06:07] <paranoidabhi> valorie, do all flavors have the same versions of packages?
[06:07] <valorie> ForgeAus: please do a full backup first
[06:07] <valorie> paranoidabhi: yes
[06:07] <valorie> there is one archive
[06:07] <ForgeAus> I don't mind backing up or not I can redo trusty from scratch with no problem
[06:07] <ForgeAus> its Xenial that I'm worried about
[06:07] <ForgeAus> I haven't saved any data there or anything anyway
[06:07] <valorie> there is a channel
[06:07] <valorie> I'm just not sure what it is
[06:08] <ForgeAus> I don't think #Interix had a channel
[06:08] <paranoidabhi> valorie, what are the advantages of kubuntu over neon?
[06:08] <ForgeAus> (WSL basically replaced it, because Interix got deprocated)
[06:08] <ForgeAus> paranoidabhi stability with the LTS releases for one
[06:08] <valorie> #ubuntu-on-windows    is the chan
[06:08] <ForgeAus> thx valorie :)
[06:08] <paranoidabhi> ForgeAus, hmmm.. both have that
[06:09] <valorie> paranoidabhi: we focus on elegance and everything working together
[06:09] <ForgeAus> neon has LTS support? oh ok
[06:09] <valorie> they focus on getting the latest out the door asap
[06:09] <ForgeAus> bbl have fun :_
[06:09] <paranoidabhi> valorie, can you explain more on it. By working together you mean.
[06:09] <valorie> ForgeAus: not that I've heard
[06:10] <valorie> that is sort of the opposite of what they want to provide
[06:10] <valorie> we want you to be able to use any package in the archive, for instance
[06:10] <valorie> whether it is from KDE or not
[06:11] <valorie> neon provides a small subset of KDE applications
[06:11] <valorie> growing, but still small
[06:11] <valorie> I think we provide them all
[06:11] <paranoidabhi> valorie, but we can install them in neon right?
[06:12] <valorie> I'm not saying that you can't use neon the same way you use kubuntu
[06:12] <valorie> and vice versa
[06:12] <valorie> people use kubuntu and build part of their own applications etc.
[06:12] <valorie> I used to do that
[06:12] <valorie> but we have different focuses
[06:13] <paranoidabhi> ok from I have understood. Kubuntu offers larger kde packages and they are better tested to work together?
[06:13] <valorie> yes, certainly
[06:14] <valorie> I've been testing Yakkety for six months
[06:14] <valorie> as have quite a few others
[06:14] <valorie> neon is created in order to test stuff
[06:15] <paranoidabhi> Are there other advantages outside of kde packages as well?
[06:16] <valorie> I guess that depends on whether or not you consider the ubuntu community an advantage
[06:16] <valorie> I do
[06:16] <paranoidabhi> valorie, can you explain more on that please.
[06:17] <valorie> for instance, at the beginning of next month, I'll be sharing a table at a local FOSS show (SeaGL) with other ubuntu community members
[06:17] <valorie> Ubuntu sends us a convention kit with swag to give away
[06:17] <valorie> is paying for our hotel
[06:17] <valorie> etc.
[06:18] <valorie> the community sent me to Akademy this summer for our Kubuntu meeting there
[06:18] <valorie> it's great
[06:19] <paranoidabhi> kubuntu xenial use lower qt than kde neon xenial. Now I install some package that requires qt in both. How does the package know which qt I have. Will fail in kde-neon vs kubuntu?
[06:20] <valorie> that depends
[06:20] <valorie> maybe
[06:20] <paranoidabhi> valorie, if possible can you please explain more. Sry I am a newbie
[06:20] <valorie> I don't know
[06:20] <valorie> I've not had a chance to install KDE neon yet
[06:21] <valorie> and I would never mix packages like that
[06:22] <valorie> I'd rather run one or the other in a VM
[06:22] <paranoidabhi> I am saying that when I install packages in kubuntu. The packages are meant to work with the given xenial versions for dependencies?
[06:23] <valorie> every version has their own packages
[06:23] <paranoidabhi> In neon, if you change the qt, the new packages to be installed won't work. Because they would assume because I am using xenial I would have old qt.
[06:24] <valorie> well, the supported ones
[06:24] <valorie> older
[06:24] <valorie> not OLD
[06:25] <paranoidabhi> yes sry older qt
[06:26] <user|1512> [Print] key don't work. [Alt]+[Print] works well. [Meta]+[Print] works well.
[06:27] <user|1512> Sorry, ... just after the 16.04 upgrade
[06:29] <paranoidabhi> so kde-neon+testing+more-packages(kde and others)=kubuntu
[06:43] <valorie> paranoidabhi: neon is always built on an LTS base
[06:44] <valorie> on Kubuntu you can stay on the LTS and get backports and updates, OR upgrade once every six months
[06:45] <paranoidabhi> valorie, can't we get the backports in neon as well?
[06:46] <valorie> what would be the point?
[06:46] <valorie> updates in neon are from git for the devel spin, or latest releases for user
[06:47] <paranoidabhi> valorie, but backports isn't limited to the desktop, it may include other thing as well. Please correct me if I am wrong.
[06:49] <valorie> perhaps they include ubuntu-backports
[06:49] <valorie> dunno
[06:49] <valorie> they give you fresh frameworks and fresh plasma as well as fresh apps
[07:18] <user|1512> The Global Keyboard Shortcuts settings are correct [KDE Daemon]>Action [Print Screen]>Global [Print], but the key don't work : why ?
[07:19] <acheronuk> paranoidabhi: as You know, Neon uses a much new Qt that they built themselves and supply. *most* KDE/QT application are fine with a newer QT, but some specifically require the ABI of an earlier version
[07:21] <acheronuk> that means that Neon Qt breaks some things in the ubuntu archive. some they rebuild in their own repos. many they don't bother with
[07:22] <user|1512> Sorry, my versions are: Kubuntu 16.10 - KDE Plasma: 5.7.5 KDE Frameworks: 5.26.0 Qt: 5.6.1 Kernel: 4.8.0-22-generic OS Type: 64-bit
[07:22] <acheronuk> as they are not core KDE things, Neon can choose to not care that some things break. kubuntu when doing a backport and supplying a new QT DOES have to have concern as to what a new QT would do to non kubuntu packages in the archive
[07:24] <acheronuk> user|1512: what application do you have set to launch?
[07:26] <user|1512> [Meta]+[Print] runs Spectacle
[07:26] <user|1512> but just [Print] doesn't
[07:26] <paranoidabhi> acheronuk, thanks that makes sense.
[07:27] <acheronuk> user|1512: hmmm... PrntScm launches spectacle here
[07:28] <acheronuk> *PrtScn
[07:30] <user|1512> No, after the upgrade from 16.04 to 16.10 the PrntScn launches nothing
[07:32] <user|1512> My system's lost the connection between Action and app to lunch
[07:33] <user|1512> Any idea ?
[07:35] <user|1512> Sorry, I must leave ... see you soon. Bye!
[09:35] <nicofrand> i ! Anyone knows how to see my agendas in the calendar with plasma 5.7? They don't appear in the configuration window (I only see "Holidays")
[10:11] <Daewan> hello everyone
[10:12] <lordievader_b> O/
[10:12] <Daewan> maybe I'm a bit lame, but I couldn't find a minimal cd download for kubuntu 16.10. is there any?
[10:13] <Daewan> so called network install cd
[10:14] <lordievader_b> Did you look for the Ubuntu one?
[10:14] <Daewan> Kubuntu
[10:15] <lordievader_b> IIRC the Ubuntu minimal iso van Be used to installatie Kubuntu.
[10:15] <Daewan> aaah
[10:15] <Daewan> perfect
[10:16] <Daewan> thank you :)
[10:17] <lordievader_b> No problem
[10:23] <Daewan> cu
[10:32] <FlameReaper-PC> Is there any way I can know the status of Plasma 5.7 for Kubuntu 16.04 backports?
[10:37] <soee> FlameReaper-PC: im not 100% sure but i think Plasma 5.8 will land thare after it is in ZZ than YY
[10:37] <soee> acheronuk: ^ can you confirm?
[10:40] <acheronuk> soee: plasma 5.7.5 is staged, but not fully tested. Plasma 5.8 is planned if it can be done once ZZ has it
[10:41] <acheronuk> soee: personally I am somewhat in favour of just skipping 5.7 and doing 5.8 for 16.04, but that is a team decision
[10:49] <FlameReaper-PC> acheronuk: I suppose that means somewhere within next year?
[10:52] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: I would hope a few weeks.
[10:55] <FlameReaper-PC> acheronuk: thanks. I have been wondering why the backports seemed frozen for quite some time
[10:56] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: several reasons. we would need an updated QT version, which kubuntu can only do with a GREAT deal of care, so as not to break ubuntu packages
[11:00] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: Yakkety QT transition and therefore plasma/tw was a long time coming, so backports from that get delayed
[11:01] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: we have been a bit shorthanded due to some team members having a life outside kubuntu :p
[11:02] <FlameReaper-PC> well, when it gets done it gets done I suppose.
[11:02] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: and getting yakkety done generally means things like backports go a little put on the back burner
[11:02] <FlameReaper-PC> as a production machine I should not be a rush to upgrade
[11:02] <FlameReaper-PC> *in a rush
[11:05] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: this is true. for example on plasma 5.8, instead opf rushing 5.8.0 out the door as soon as it is release with lots of new bugs, it's probably better to have 5.8.4 or 5 as an upgrade by which time most nasty bugs will have been squashed
[11:05] <mparillo> And 5.8.0 would be premature anyway. I am running 5.8.1 and it seems stable enough, but 5.8.2 should be coming soon (tm).
[11:07] <acheronuk> mparillo: 5.8.3 is released in Nov 1st :)
[11:07] <FlameReaper-PC> also since I am using fcitx for japanese text input (not a japanese, but I do go to Japanese sites) it seems the Qt5 frontend for it has yet to be built against KDE 5.7
[11:08] <acheronuk> FlameReaper-PC: that is on out list of things that would break with new QT, yes
[11:10] <acheronuk> already have a test build of that against Qt 5.6.1 if I recall
[11:21] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[11:35] <init1> help me ... instal metasploit?
[11:35] <clement_> Hello
[11:36] <init1> hi friends
[11:37] <clement_> I am trying to install KSuperkey on a fresh install of Kubuntu 16.10. But when I try to set Alt+F1 as application launcher shortcut it just wont accept it
[11:37] <clement_> What can I do?
[11:39] <BluesKaj> init1, https://github.com/rapid7/metasploit-framework/wiki/Nightly-Installers
[11:42] <init1> ok thanks, and how to install and repository kubuntu
[11:59] <init1> how to install metasploit and repository?
[11:59] <init1> iam from indonesian
[13:22] <user|59898> Hello
[13:23] <user|59898> Anybody ?
[13:23] <user|59898> I need some help please
 Just ask
[13:25] <soee> !ask | user|59898
[13:27] <user|59898> Ok thanks
[13:28] <user|59898> Where it says, less than 2 GB of RAM it doesn't exactly say the minimum required, because sometimes we use old machines that can't run Microsoft so what is the minimum requirement in terms of RAM  Please?
[13:29] <mparillo> Funny we were chatting about this yesterday. I said I could live with Kubuntu on 1GB of RAM on my netbook, but somebody else said it was too painful.
 I have kubuntu running on an Atom netbook with 1GB, however is not the fastest thing in the world
 I would say, try it and see if it meets your needs, if not maybe try with something lighter like lubuntu
[13:33] <nicofrand> Did anyone figured how to display the agendas from Korganizer in the calendar ?
[13:34] <user|59898> is Lubuntu lighter in your opinion? I have been using Xubuntu but it's slightly havier
[13:34] <user|59898> ?
 I think it is, but havent use it in a while
[13:39] <user|59898> Well I can't even download it, on their website since the link is dead
 http://lubuntu.me/, there it started downloading for me
[13:47] <user|59898> thanks IrcsomeBot
[13:47] <user|59898> lol
 Guess that what people from the telegram group look like in the irc :)
[14:18] <Timvde> General question actually, but it's to create a Kubuntu installer USB: what's the best/easiest way nowadays? unetbootin has given me problems in the past.
[14:25] <Timvde> Let's try just dd...
 There was a better Commander than dd, one that reported the progress
 I dont recall the command, show it in the stackexchange network, however i've read that now dd supports reporting the progress
[14:41] <Taggnostr> even with firefox closed and no firefox entries in ps aux, I still see 3 "firefox" processes from the system monitor.  Any idea what they might be and why they don't show up in ps aux?
[16:00] <yuriy> Hello guys
[16:01] <yuriy> I have Kubuntu 15.10, but try to upgrade it to Kubuntu 16.10
[16:01] <yuriy> but it always tell me about 16.04 only
[16:01] <yuriy> that it possible to upgrae too
[16:01] <yuriy> what's wrong here?
[16:03] <jhunold> yuriy: you can't skip version when upgrading from a non-TLS version
[16:03] <yuriy> so?
[16:03] <jhunold> upgrade to 16.04 and then to 16.10
[16:03] <yuriy> hm... there no other way?
[16:04] <yuriy> i did change /etc/apt/sources.list to Yakkety Yak
[16:08] <yuriy> thanks jhunold
[16:08] <gelek> hi - I would like to ask a question about backport. I installed kde 5.6 which works fine, but I would like to update to 5.8. It does not do it automatically via ppa
[16:35] <user|46267> i need help with my kubuntu installation
[16:36] <user|46267> after the installation is done, it asks me to reboot my device and then theres an error and then i have to start the whole process over
[17:00] <gelek> hi did anybody already updated to plasma 5.8 from backport ppa?
[17:03] <shaver> I think I have plasma 5.5
[17:05] <mparillo> The backport PPA does not have Plasma 5.8.
[17:07] <mparillo> It has Plasma 5.6.5. YY (16.10) has 5.7.5.
[17:08] <gelek> okay, but the backport was not updated to 5.8 even for 16.04?
[17:08] <BluesKaj_>  staging ppa ?
[17:08] <shaver> WildSoft: As soon as I clean up, 2 seconds later, Dust seems to be everyone with a white glove inspection.
[17:09] <shaver> mparillo: Thanks. I'll just install and upgrade.
[17:12] <mparillo> BluesKaj_: I do not think Plasma 5.8 is even in staging yet. There are discussions, but I do not think a plan has been finalized. Step 1 was to resurrect CI.
[17:13] <BluesKaj_> mparillo, pk, I heard it was already on arch and neon
[17:13] <BluesKaj_> ok
[17:14] <BluesKaj_>  but I seldom notice much diffeence between plasma versions that use the same number
[17:17] <BluesKaj_> I have 5.7.5 as all 16.10 users , but the diff between it and 5.6 wasnt much from what I could see
[17:18] <BluesKaj_> not a fan of breeze, maybe thatś the reason :-)
[17:19] <shaver> Is there a new version of Calendar System for the panel?
[17:20] <shaver> When I click the calendar, I don't see my Appointments && to-do list.
[17:21] <shaver> The Calendar from the panel after clicking time stamp.
[17:21] <zergut> hello
[17:22] <shaver> zergut: Goot Morgin.
[17:22] <shaver> hello
[17:22] <zergut> is there still an issue with connecting modems via usb
[17:22] <zergut> or it's already fixed?
[17:23] <shaver> I have wi-fi connected via usb.
[17:25] <zergut> which version?
[17:28] <shaver> zergut: I have KDE 16.04 installed. Plasma 5.5.5
[17:29] <mparillo> Yes, Plasma 5.8.1 has also migrated from Manjaro Unstable to Testing.
[17:29] <shaver> It's actually Ubuntu 16.04.
[17:33] <shaver> How do I install updated drivers for my new ATI video card to GLX 4.5? It says I have GLX versioin 3?
[17:35] <shaver> Do I have to compile drivers for dot.exe video drivers? my window machine.
[17:36] <shaver> The ways it's done is that it has to be a match.
[17:36] <shaver> Example: Orange && Apple cannot go in the same basket.
[17:38] <shaver> I was looking for drivers for my Brand Spank'in New Video Card && everyone is like, well he has to compile it. How would I do that with EXE?
[17:39] <shaver> I thought there was package owners. I mean, I used to be a Peer Training, but, I was hoping that package owner on other distros can do a better job.
[17:52] <shaver> I just got done taking a break. I actually found apples && oranges mixed in a basket.
[18:01] <shaver> If your not supportive for Mr. S. Then Out.
[18:45] <zergut> trying to customize kubuntu 16.04
[18:45] <zergut> via ubuntu customization kit
[18:45] <zergut> have got error Failed to merge X authorization file, error=126
[18:53] <halas> hey gays
[18:53] <halas> i have probleme with teamviwer can you help me
[19:38] <yotux> I have this proccess Baloo_file_extr that is always starting and running @ 100% of cpu
[21:53] <assist> can someone help me? my laptop hangs on restart with either (k)ubuntu 16.04.1 and 16.10
[22:18] <viewer|94528> hi guys: I am trying to install kubuntu 16.10 on virtualbox (under windows), and when i virtually boot from the iso as a live cd and hit install kubunto, i select a language, hit continue and then I cannot proceed further :( i won't let me select continue and in the upper left corner there is a strange symbol with a check symbol written over it
[22:19] <valorie> viewer|94528: did you verify the ISO?
[22:19] <valorie> !md5 | viewer|94528
[22:19] <viewer|94528> with the checksum?
[22:19] <valorie> yes
[22:19] <viewer|94528> no, give me a sec
[22:26] <viewer|94528> the download is valid
[22:26] <viewer|94528> eg. the checksums match
[22:27] <viewer|94528> could i be a problem that i doesnt recognize my primary hard drive (virtual as well)
[22:27] <viewer|94528> *it doesen't
[22:30] <viewer|94528> um guys, is this the right place to ask such a question? :)
[22:33] <viewer|94528> ok bye
[22:38] <user|29448> hello everyone ı have a problem. My clock widget is showing wrong time. my time zone is turkey
[23:50] <Guest17981> Hello guys; is there any way to get plasma 5.8 for ubuntu yakkety other than compiling?
[23:51] <mparillo> Guest17981: You want to help us package it?
[23:52] <Guest17981> how can I do that? :)
[23:59] <mparillo> If you want to learn packaging, the team is always looking for new developers.
[23:59] <mparillo> They gather in #kubuntu-devel, but I think they are mostly Europeans and things are getting a bit late now.


[06:07] <Langjan> Hi Kilos , any news?
[06:08] <Kilos> nothing Langjan
[06:08] <Langjan> Eish! Did you mail them yesterday?
[06:08] <Kilos> i mailed them on the site and that other one and only got one pc reply
[06:09] <Langjan> Frustrating!
[06:09] <Kilos> very
[06:10] <Langjan> Please update me on your location? I am visiting the kids in Mnandi AH near Diepsloot, Centurion.
[06:29] <zipper> Hello humans
[06:48] <Langjan> you there Kilos ?
[06:53] <Kilos> skuus man
[06:53] <Kilos> had to go do chores
[06:54] <Kilos> im west of pta Langjan
[06:54] <Kilos> hi zipper
[06:57] <Symmetria> heh
[06:57] <Symmetria> sup
[06:57] <Symmetria> lol I was just testing my fiber by firing up a torrent client
[06:58] <Symmetria> [Throttle off/off KB] [Rate 744.5/365337.7 KB] [Port: 23970]
[17:28] <Kilos> hi superfly and others
[17:28]  * Kilos waves to inetpro
[18:10] <superfly> Hi Kilos
[19:01] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight


[00:08] <tlm> wallyworld_: can I get 5 minutes after standup ?
[00:13] <hpidcock> tlm: https://media1.tenor.com/images/2a8ac396850c720fd6084c4e94f9d582/tenor.gif?itemid=15201782
[00:16] <wallyworld_> hpidcock: just otp be there soon
[00:16] <wallyworld_> babbageclunk: ^^^^
[00:17] <tlm> otp two ticks
[04:52] <hpidcock> wallyworld_: another review pls sir https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/11462
[04:52] <wallyworld_> ok
[04:53] <babbageclunk> wallyworld_: for now I'm disallowing restoring a backup from a version of Juju greater than the current one. That seems reasonable right?
[04:54] <wallyworld_> i think so cause the newer agents to match the db might not be available right?
[04:55] <babbageclunk> well, they should be in the db...
[04:56] <babbageclunk> but not on the controller machine disks
[04:56] <babbageclunk> maybe
[04:56] <wallyworld_> yeah, that's what i meant sorry. and it's work to extract and use, so for now can disalllow
[04:56] <wallyworld_> IMO
[04:56] <babbageclunk> cool cool
[04:56] <babbageclunk> that was what I figured.
[04:59] <wallyworld_> hpidcock: lgtm, ty
[04:59] <wallyworld_> hpidcock: feel like creating a go mod file for juju/juju?
[05:00] <hpidcock> Awesome thankyou
[05:00] <hpidcock> Sure why not
[05:00] <wallyworld_> would like to get that done for beta or rc1
[05:00] <wallyworld_> includes makefile changes, jenkibs build jobs, etc etc
[05:03] <hpidcock> Then some lucky person can fix the debs
[05:03] <wallyworld_> yep
[06:37] <hpidcock> wallyworld_: all required for go mod https://github.com/juju/yaml/pull/2 https://github.com/juju/raft/pull/1 https://github.com/juju/lumberjack/pull/3 https://github.com/juju/gosigma/pull/1
[06:39] <thumper> wallyworld_: has the mongo db channel branch landed?
[06:47] <thumper> actually it looks like it hasn't again
[06:48] <thumper> hpidcock, wallyworld_: the merge job is being killed for taking too long
[06:48] <thumper> not sure what it is doing
[06:48] <thumper> but I'm well past EOD
[07:21] <wallyworld_> hpidcock: looking
[07:33] <wallyworld_> hpidcock: all lgtm, perhaps PR descriptions a little light on
[07:38] <wallyworld_> stickupkid: heya, we've had trouble landing stuff today and it still appears broken. first there was a disk space issue on the jenkins master node which hpidcock fixed and there were stale lxc containers on grumpig which i deleted.  but now there's an issue accessing the  lxd socket when the merge jobs run. past eod here, perhaps you could take a peek and $$mrrge$$ the 3 or so approved PRs? pretty please :-)
[07:50] <wallyworld_> or manadart if stickupkid is away?
[07:51] <manadart> wallyworld_: Yeah, I'm looking at it now.
[07:51] <wallyworld_> tyvm
[08:06] <stickupkid_> who broke lxd in jenkins?
[10:27] <stickupkid> manadart, when you've got a sec, can i grab you for my idea of where to store origin correctly
[10:29] <manadart> stickupkid: In Daily
[10:29] <stickupkid> manadart, hold on fighting bluetooth
[11:11] <gnuoy> joedborg, do you know if this is the right channel to ask if anyone can land  https://github.com/juju-solutions/interface-tls-certificates/pull/22 ? or is there a separate juju-solutions type channel ?
[11:53] <joedborg> gnuoy: I’m not sure actually.


[00:00] <pinkrobotking> fregl: ping
[00:00] <pinkrobotking> is anyone actually here?
[00:01] <shtylman> everyone is always here
[00:01] <pinkrobotking> oh
[00:01] <pinkrobotking> shtylman!
[00:16] <JontheEchidna> pinkrobotking: pong
[00:16] <pinkrobotking> JontheEchidna: too late :P
[00:16] <pinkrobotking> JontheEchidna: http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/fluffy/
[00:16] <pinkrobotking> in case you got improvement suggestions
[00:31] <fregl> pinkrobotking: moin
[00:32] <pinkrobotking> fregl: honey you are late ... http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/fluffy/
[00:32] <fregl> pinkrobotking: I know, I'm old and slow...
[00:33] <fregl> pinkrobotking: what is a "granding technique" ? :p
[00:33] <fregl> wil +l
[00:34] <pinkrobotking> granding is when you grand something
[00:34] <fregl> ah, perfecting
[00:34] <fregl> pinkrobotking: what did you drink "epsecially"?
[00:35] <fregl> at least you called rekonq rekonq
[00:35] <pinkrobotking> I can hardly call it recum in public
[00:35] <pinkrobotking> ohw
[00:35] <pinkrobotking> sry
[00:35] <pinkrobotking> :/
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> lol
[00:36] <ScottK> fregl: Judging from your photos you've got some time yet before you can get away with the "I'm old" excuse.
[00:36] <fregl> ScottK: hush :)
[00:36] <pinkrobotking> oh
[00:37] <pinkrobotking> dont let photoshop foul you
[00:37] <pinkrobotking> in reality he looks WAY older
[00:37]  * ScottK is open on the question of slow though.
[00:37] <pinkrobotking> fregl: was that all?
[00:37] <fregl> my receding hairline makes me weep every morning for an hour at least
[00:38] <fregl> pinkrobotking: looks good as far as I can tell :)
[00:38] <fregl> ♥ Stay Fluffy ♥
[00:38] <fregl> lovely
[00:41] <pinkrobotking> fregl: just keep telling yourself that it is result of too much thinking
[00:41] <pinkrobotking> works for me :P
[00:41]  * pinkrobotking should blog about that
[00:42]  * fregl still has an unfinished blog post about fluffy, no idea what's in there :)
[00:42] <pinkrobotking> being unshaved is result of being too important and tired eyese are a result of being too efficient
[00:43] <pinkrobotking> fregl: does it come with stars and balloons?
[00:46]  * pinkrobotking really needs to unfollow people on twatter he is following on denteist's dream already :/
[00:46] <fregl> no stars included, baloons might be.. need to check later
[00:47] <fregl> and I tried earlier to unbreak the krunner opaque themeing but that was sadly not possible as plasma doesn't like to behave
[00:47] <fregl> (surprise)
[00:49] <pinkrobotking> fregl: what is broken with it?
[00:49] <pinkrobotking> the misrendering (black)?
[00:52] <fregl> round corners → black splots (despite having a mask for that) but that seems to be a general problem here
[00:52] <fregl> and the horizontal bar pixmap is scaled
[00:53] <fregl> but maybe it is just my broken plasma, no clue how yours looks :)
[00:56] <pinkrobotking> hm scaling I did not notice
[00:57] <pinkrobotking> however sometimes plasma decided to scale without reason when switching between opaque and translucent
[04:10] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134711 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/worker/workeracquire.cpp Correctly set errorText and failedItem. (They had been reversed. Oops.)
[04:11] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134713 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/ (backend.h worker/worker.cpp) Move download started signal to right before when downloading actually starts. I had been a bit confused on the issue due to poor libapt-pkg API.
[04:12] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134714 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/utils/qapt-batch/qaptbatch.cpp I had forgotten to implement a dialog for fetch errors :S Implement one.
[04:12] <JontheEchidna> ^what all the network drops were for
[04:15] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134716 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/worker/worker.cpp Forgot to remove these events after the "download started" signal emission moved further down the function
[04:19] <JontheEchidna> Hrm, the transaction question stuff needs a rework and I just wrote it this afternoon... v.v
[04:20] <JontheEchidna> will do tomorrow though. g'night
[11:31] <apachelogger> my blog post about cd building is gonna be epic
[11:31] <apachelogger> also
[11:31]  * apachelogger hugs Nightrose
[11:32]  * Nightrose hugs apachelogger :)
[11:33] <apachelogger> hm
[11:33] <apachelogger> it appears to me that installing the base system now indeed does not try to install fluffy-desktop
[11:33]  * apachelogger keeps fingers crossed to get a working install this time
[11:50] <Tm_T> !fluffy
[11:50] <Tm_T> apachelogger: ^
[11:51] <apachelogger> jussi: ^
[11:51] <Tm_T> apachelogger: no, write the factoid so someone, like I, can add it then (:
[11:51] <apachelogger> I dunno what to write
[11:51] <apachelogger> fregl: ^
[11:51] <apachelogger> ahhhh
[11:52] <apachelogger> it seems my installation did not go as well as I hoped
[11:52] <apachelogger> no kdm :(
[11:52] <Tm_T> hrrr
[11:52] <apachelogger> meh
[11:52] <apachelogger> meeeeeh
[11:53] <apachelogger> it did not install fluffy at all -.-
[11:53] <apachelogger> man
[11:53] <fregl> what is fluffy?
[11:54] <fregl> ah, it's the kubuntu without amarok, right? :)
[11:54] <apachelogger> yes
[11:54] <apachelogger> actually
[11:54] <apachelogger> it is a kubuntu without kde
[11:54] <apachelogger> or so says my vm :(
[11:54] <fregl> yay ... not :(
[11:55]  * fregl hugs apachelogger, even without kde
[11:55]  * apachelogger rehugs fregl crying because he does not know why the install fails so horribly
[11:56] <fregl> because distribution building needs sacrificing pink bunnies to the FSM?
[11:57] <apachelogger> the FSM?
[11:57] <fregl> flying spaghettin monster?
[11:57] <apachelogger> OMG
[11:57] <apachelogger> no!
[11:57] <apachelogger> omg!!!!!!
[11:57]  * apachelogger falls over
[11:58] <fregl> apachelogger: actually that image in the article would also fit... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster I wonder about the license
[11:59] <fregl> not free - fail :(
[12:01] <apachelogger> oh my
[12:01] <apachelogger> hm
[12:01]  * apachelogger is wondering if taskel might be the failure here
[12:02] <apachelogger> hm
[12:02] <apachelogger> this almost makes sense
[12:05] <fregl> apachelogger: what is a "mhall119"?
[12:05] <apachelogger> fregl: i dunno?
[12:05] <fregl> your esquimo identica friend wants to send you one (?)
[12:06] <apachelogger> oh
[12:06] <apachelogger> maybe an artist
[12:06] <apachelogger> someone should tell him that KDE theming is superior to xfce and xfce will never be as attractive
[12:06] <apachelogger> also, did he call me a girl?
[12:13] <apachelogger> fregl: can you help him find out what he wants :P
[12:13]  * apachelogger is busy fighting tasksel
[12:17] <apachelogger> d-i	pkgsel/include	string fluffy-desktop
[12:17] <apachelogger> that should do it for now ...
[12:17]  * apachelogger rebuilds image the 7th time today
[12:39] <jussi> !fluffy
[12:40] <jussi> apachelogger: have you a fluffy homepage yet?
[12:40] <apachelogger> not yet :(
[12:40] <apachelogger> fregl: ^ we should do something about that
[12:41] <fregl> eean faild us homepage wise, didn't he?
[12:41] <jussi> apachelogger: as soon as you get a homepage Ill add one for you. just let me know what it is.
[12:41] <fregl> :(
[12:41] <jussi> if its just server space you need, see tsimpson about something on jussi01.com
[12:42] <apachelogger> fregl: pretty much
[12:42] <apachelogger> oh
[12:42] <apachelogger> see
[12:42] <apachelogger> fregl: the nice ubuntu family already welcomes us :D
[12:43] <fregl> jussi: that is amazing *hug*
[12:43] <jussi> :)
[12:43] <jussi> apachelogger: although, where do you have kubotu running?
[12:43] <jussi> is it on jussi01.com?
[12:43] <apachelogger> I think so
[12:43]  * apachelogger is confused with the hostnames
[12:44] <fregl> ok, maybe we should take up that offer, the question is what to put there... my design skillz are so amazing that we really should find someone else to do a homepage
[12:44] <jussi> we can link something into your homedir then.
[12:44] <jussi> fregl: just make a nice wordpress theme :P
[12:44] <apachelogger> oh, silly old wordpress
[12:44] <fregl> but wordpress is a good starting point
[12:44] <fregl> we can have a fluffy distor blog right away then
[12:44]  * apachelogger is wondering if he broke the install again :/
[12:45] <apachelogger> well
[12:45] <apachelogger> the thing is
[12:45] <jussi> or just tell us what you want, django, joomla, drupal etc
[12:45] <neversfelde> http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/tags/pink
[12:45] <apachelogger> if it is in my home I need to maintain it :P
[12:46] <apachelogger> hm
[12:46] <jussi> apachelogger: if its wordpress it doesnt need to be
[12:46] <jussi> ;)
[12:46] <jussi> all web done ;)
[12:46] <apachelogger> debian-installer apparently does not like not having a tasksel defined :/
[12:46] <apachelogger> jussi: then we shall use wordpress ^^
[12:46] <jussi> :)
[12:46] <jussi> right, Ill get tsimpson to add another instance and give you the keys whne its done
[12:47] <apachelogger> awesome
[12:47]  * apachelogger hugs jussi
[12:47] <jussi> oh, and this could be modified :P http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/kitten-in-pink
[12:47]  * jussi hugs apachelogger
[12:48] <neversfelde> hello kitty is also pink :)
[12:48] <neversfelde> http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/hello-kitty-wordpress.png
[12:48] <apachelogger> NO HELLO KITTY!
[12:49] <apachelogger> leinir told me all about its evilness!
[12:49] <apachelogger> I do not want to have anything to do with that
[12:49] <neversfelde> mhh :)
[12:49] <jussi> lol
[12:49] <neversfelde> I know nothing more about hello kitty than it is pink
[12:49] <jussi> neversfelde: good, keep it that way!
[12:50]  * neversfelde has two sisters using a hello kitty windows theme
[12:51] <jussi> windows has themes? o.O other than the standard 2? o.O
[12:52] <Tm_T> jussi: yes, 3rd party, which might break a lot of stuff
[12:52] <apachelogger> arrsome
[12:52] <apachelogger> OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:52] <apachelogger> it is installing Qt :'(
[12:52] <apachelogger> OMG!!!!!
[12:52] <apachelogger> this is so awesome
[12:52] <pinkrobotking> <3
[12:53] <jussi> lol
[12:55] <jussi> anyone remember what the mario clone game was?
[12:56] <Tm_T> jussi: you mean supertux? (supermario tuxified)
[12:56] <jussi> maybe... /me installs to see
[12:58] <Tm_T> atleast that one is pretty straight clone, just different theme and a bit different physics
[12:59]  * pinkrobotking just thought of the ubuntu mario ^^
[13:12] <pinkrobotking> hm
[13:12] <pinkrobotking> there is still something wrong :(
[13:40] <apachelogger> seems plasma is a bit broken in my packaging
[13:41] <apachelogger> coloring is fine though
[13:42] <apachelogger> fregl: maybe it was luck, but I think I just did the first successfull installation \o/
[13:42] <jussi> \o/
[14:50] <Tonio_> jkjhjhjklkjhjhjhjkl
[14:50] <Tonio_> oups, sory, testing keyboard mapping :)
[14:52] <amichair> what are the actual ppa links for those mentioned in https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuPPAs?
[15:32] <tsimpson> amichair: https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa#ppas
[15:33] <amichair> tsimpson: thanks
[16:28] <flupke> hi, why isn't the QtMultimedia module packaged in python-qt4 ?
[16:38] <flupke> looks like it was forgotten in the install rule, where should I report this ? (the bug is the same on debian squeeze)
[16:41] <flupke> ubuntu launchpad ? or maybe I should report to debian (I think the ubuntu packages are taken from there ?) ? or maybe both ? :)
[16:45] <ScottK> flupke: It would be best to report it to both.
[16:46] <flupke> ScottK, ok (thanks again :) )
[16:46] <flupke> I'm verifying my patch works and will post it soon
[17:05] <flupke> here it is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-qt4/+bug/590140
[17:05] <flupke> tested on my box and works fine
[17:05] <debfx> IIRC qtmultimedia will be removed in qt 4.7 final
[17:06] <debfx> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/05/06/qt-47-scope-change-regarding-qt-multimedia/
[17:07] <ScottK> flupke: ^^^ that perhaps changes things.
[17:08] <flupke> well ATM there is functionnality that's only present in qtmultimedia (recording)
[17:09] <Tm_T> I wonder why Phonon cannot be used though... oh well
[17:11] <ScottK> flupke: If there's multimedia stuff missing from the bindings for Qt 4.6, I think that's a great bug for Debian (they won't focus on 4.7 or later until after Squeeze releases), but it seems for 4.7 here we perhaps ought to wait a bit and see.
[17:12] <ScottK> JontheEchidna or apachelogger: kamoso needs a rebuild to drop the old kdebase-workspace-libs4+5 depends.  It also FTBFS with the current pkg-kde-tools.  Would one of you please fix it up?
[17:20] <shadeslayer> lex79: um.. is 4.4.85 in ktown?
[17:21] <lex79> I don't think so
[17:22] <flupke> ScottK, well that's not a big fix, just adding a lib in the installed files list :)
[17:22] <flupke> ScottK, and 10.04 is here for long
[17:22] <ScottK> flupke: I think it's worth considering for us for 10.04 first.
[17:22] <ScottK> first/also
[17:23] <shadeslayer> lex79: then why was the wiki page to packaging 4.4.85?
[17:23] <ScottK> It's a bit tricky since generally such bugs should be fixed in the development release first and it's not clearly appropriate here.
[17:23] <ScottK> flupke: If Debian picks up the change for 4.6, I'll figure out how to push it here too.
[17:24] <lex79> shadeslayer: I just prepared the page, doesn't mean nothing :)
[17:24] <shadeslayer> ah ok :D
[17:25] <shadeslayer> lex79: btw are you in the kubuntu council as well?
[17:25] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: considering we are at 4.4.82 currently
[17:25] <lex79> shadeslayer: no
[17:26] <shadeslayer> lex79: ah ok :)
[17:26] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: yes i saw that :)
[17:26] <lex79> :)
[17:32] <flupke> ScottK, ok thanks, got to go, I'll post the bug to debian tomorrow
[17:32] <ScottK> Thanks.  Let me know how it works out.
[17:52] <amichair> ScottK: just noticed the added ppas in the wiki page... many thanks!
[17:52] <ScottK> amichair: Was that what you wanted?
[17:53] <amichair> ScottK: much more :-)
[17:53] <ScottK> Great.
[18:40] <ScottK> apachelogger: Is kubuntu-dev-tools still useful?  I notice it didn't change at all in the last cycle?
[18:52] <ScottK> Would someone please have a listen to http://www.nixnews.tk/kubuntu-10-04-lucid-lynx-netbook-remix-first-look and let me know if the reviewer liked it?  I'm pretty sure it's in German.
[19:02] <apachelogger> ScottK: if only I knew
[19:07] <debfx> I just noticed you have to explicitly pass --buildsystem=kde when overriding dh_auto_*
[19:07] <debfx> this can be a problem as debian doesn't do anything in dh_auto_{install,clean} so they won't notice when it's missing
[19:13]  * apachelogger needs to get wasted so he can come up with good code designs
[19:13] <apachelogger> Nightrose, fregl, ScottK: if you need something creative from me, tonight is your chance
[19:13] <Nightrose> hmmmm
[19:13]  * Nightrose ponders
[19:14] <Nightrose> apachelogger: can you write a chapter of my paper?
[19:14] <Nightrose> the one about splines?
[19:14]  * apachelogger is not much into splines unfortunately
[19:14] <Nightrose> :/
[19:14] <apachelogger> but if it just needs to be blah blah, then I suppose I can do that ^^
[19:15] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:15] <apachelogger> that said, I still need to write stuff for my knowledge management assignment
[19:15] <apachelogger> oh my
[19:15] <Nightrose> should be a bit more than that unfortunately
[19:15] <apachelogger> cant help then, sorry :(
[19:15] <Nightrose> apachelogger: what do you need?
[19:15] <Nightrose> you could use my workwork's awesome wiki :D
[19:15] <apachelogger> I did :P
[19:15] <Nightrose> \o/
[19:15] <Nightrose> :*
[19:15]  * apachelogger doesnt even know what is up this week
[19:16] <apachelogger> we are drifting towards madness I am afraid
[19:16] <apachelogger> see, we have these scenario companies that each group has to add knowledge management stuff to
[19:16] <apachelogger> almost every week another area of knowledge management
[19:17] <apachelogger> suffice to say our companies are basically knowledge factories already
[19:17] <apachelogger> the amount of explicit knowledge scares me already ^^
[19:17] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:43] <ScottK> Thus it needs management.
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: On it. Though I think I recall seeing it have a gcc 4.5 FTBFS in the rebuild logs last cycle...
[21:17] <JontheEchidna> We'll see what happens
[21:17] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:18] <ScottK> It at least needs update for the new pkg-kde-tools.  Then I guess we'll see.
[21:18] <ulysses> hello guys, I've just upgraded to Maverick, it is awesome.
[21:19] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: hum. No pkg-kde-tools build-dep. Must've been using an ancient kde.mk file from cdbs
[21:20] <ScottK> Ouch.
[21:36] <ScottK> txwikinger: ichthux-desktop still depends on kwin.  Would you please change it to kde-window-manager.
[21:36] <ScottK> (kwin is an obsolete transitional package in Maverick)
[21:37] <txwikinger> ScottK: right... I will put that on my list
[21:37] <ScottK> txwikinger: Similar issue with ichthux-docs and khelpcenter
[21:37] <txwikinger> I have to do several things for ichthux
[21:37] <ScottK> IIRC it should be khelpcenter4
[21:37] <ScottK> OK.
[21:37] <txwikinger> ok
[21:50] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: fixed kamoso uploaded
[21:50] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Thanks.
[21:53] <_Groo_> hi/2 all
[21:53] <_Groo_> who did the amarok 2.3.1 build in kubuntu ppa? i have a question
[21:54] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134949 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/ (workerdbus.cpp workerdbus.h) SVN_SILENT: svn add
[21:55] <_Groo_> im building amarok from git but the upcming events and such that are dependent of liblastfm isnt building (lucid) and i do have the dev files installed..
[21:55] <_Groo_> anything im missing?
[21:55] <ScottK> _Groo_: It looks like Riddell uploaded it, but he's offline this weekend.
[21:56] <_Groo_> ScottK: ok scott, tks
[21:59] <_Groo_> ScottK: can you help me? im using debuild as usual to build stuff but after the inicial build (sucessfull) if i try to rebuild i get this error
[21:59] <ScottK> I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I can take a quick look.  What error?
[22:01] <_Groo_> ScottK: http://pastebin.com/Rv0vQYt7
[22:01] <_Groo_> ScottK: sorry kde was giving em a hard time pasting it lol
[22:03] <_Groo_> i know its a generic error but i dont know what could be polluting it, i removed debhelper files, obj-, doint know what is going on
[22:03] <ScottK> Not sure.
[22:03] <ScottK> I'd start with a clean package and try again.
[22:03]  * ScottK needs to run.
[22:05] <_Groo_> ScottK: k, tks.. yeah it works, but after the first compile i always get this
[22:05] <_Groo_> and its amarol, so its huge to regit :P
[22:05] <_Groo_> amarok
[22:07] <apachelogger> well
[22:07] <apachelogger> use bangarang then :P
[22:07]  * apachelogger does not have a clue about the context here though :P
[22:23] <_Groo_> apachelogger: i found it, nvm
[22:28] <lex79> JontheEchidna: when you have time there are still some packages in my ppa that need upload
[22:28] <lex79> thanks :)
[22:29] <debfx> and digikam merge in bzr :D
[22:30] <lex79> oh
[22:30] <lex79> and ktorrent :D
[22:30] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134952 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/ (CMakeLists.txt worker/worker.h) Build fix(es). No clue how this built before
[22:30] <JontheEchidna> now that I fixed the build I'll get on that :)
[22:31] <lex79> :)
[22:32] <JontheEchidna> lex79: http://paste.ubuntu.com/445296/
[22:33] <lex79> lol
[22:33] <lex79> uhm
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> huh
[22:33] <JontheEchidna> redownloaded and it worked
[22:34] <JontheEchidna> must have been corrupted during download
[22:34] <lex79> good
[22:38] <apachelogger> o/
[22:38] <apachelogger> \o
[22:38] <apachelogger> \o/
[22:38] <apachelogger> yo yo
[22:38]  * apachelogger is beyond ballmer's peak now
[22:38] <apachelogger> :D
[22:43] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan|Szel: where's your ktorrent merge again?
[22:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, from a quick look at the backend it seems like you got the connection logic inverted
[22:46] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: oh?
[22:46] <apachelogger> like downloadMessage(int, const QString&)
[22:47] <apachelogger> that should be emitted by the backend
[22:47] <apachelogger> connected to a slot in worker
[22:47] <apachelogger> unless I get the function of this thingy wrong
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> the worker sends that over dbus to the backend over dbus, which emits the signal to our apps
[22:47] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I said over dbus twice there...
[22:48] <JontheEchidna> basically we're re-emitting the signal we receive over dbus
[22:48] <apachelogger> that souds wrong if you ask me
[22:48] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the app access the backend?
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> yes
[22:49] <apachelogger> then this seems wrong
[22:49] <apachelogger> app -> worker -> backend
[22:49] <apachelogger> you have app -> backend -> worker
[22:49] <JontheEchidna> the worker only does root stuff
[22:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the then app needs both
[22:50] <apachelogger> imagine an app that does only display stuff
[22:50] <apachelogger> it would not require the worker at all, would it?
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> that is correct
[22:50] <apachelogger> so why should the backend enforce the worker startup?
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> it doesn't
[22:50] <JontheEchidna> the worker will only start when sent a signal over dbus
[22:50] <apachelogger> how so?
[22:51] <apachelogger> that seems overly dirty
[22:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you are trying to do convenience at the cost of library sanity if you ask me :/
[22:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, this all leads back to the question why the worker implements so much logic :P
[22:56] <apachelogger> all of the signals you get from the worker seem like stuff that should be in the lib to begin with
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> because what the worker does needs authorization to run
[22:58] <JontheEchidna> running only the stuff that needs root to work has obvious security benefits
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> running the whole GUI as root led to issues in adept's case, too: bug 290695
[23:01] <apachelogger> that is not what I implied
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> bad programming aside, it's best to run as little as root as you can get away with
[23:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: why is the worker dbus btw?
[23:07] <JontheEchidna> required for policykit
[23:08] <JontheEchidna> unless there's an alternate form of between-process communication I don't know about...
[23:08] <apachelogger> hm
[23:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: worker talks to policykitd getting auth and then does its magic?
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yeah
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> but since we have to do it inside worker, it can't talk to the backend normally, so we have to use dbus
[23:09] <JontheEchidna> to notify of progress, warnings, errors, questions, and such
[23:09] <apachelogger> hm
[23:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: worker talking to authorizedbackend, authorizedbackend being instancified by backend
[23:10] <apachelogger> app -> backend -> authbackend -> worker
[23:10] <apachelogger> sort of 2 way each -> actually ... <->
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> which process is authorized backend?
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> which process is authorized backend in?
[23:13] <apachelogger> hm
[23:13] <apachelogger> good question
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> any policykit worker is run entirely as root, and relies on polkitd to see if it really should do $action
[23:16] <JontheEchidna> so e.g. if you had an app that does "touch /etc/fluffy", but you didn't want the gui to run as root, you could create a worker that has a function to touch /etc/fluffy
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> if you don't want the worker to be an all-the-time daemon, you'd give it a dbus service xml file that tells dbus to start /usr/bin/fluffytoucher
[23:17] <JontheEchidna> whenever a org.fluffy.toucher method is called
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> fluffytoucher, which runs as root, asks polkitd to see if it really should touch /etc/fluffy, and polkitd asks polkit-kde to pop up a dialog for auth
[23:18] <JontheEchidna> if auth comes back good, it touches. If bad, it returns from the touchFluffy() function without doing anything
[23:19] <apachelogger> hm
[23:19] <apachelogger> policykit sounds like one bloody work around
[23:19] <JontheEchidna> and would probably send a boolean signal back over the bus depending on success
[23:19] <apachelogger> instead of fixing posix they work around its limitations -.-
[23:20] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: why does fluffytoucher run as root to being with?
[23:20] <apachelogger> where is this defined?
[23:20] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: presumably, $user doesn't have write access to /etc
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> the root-havingness is definied in the dbus service xml file
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> this is qaptworker's http://pastebin.com/zBS8M4Rt
[23:21] <JontheEchidna> (src/worker/org.kubuntu.qaptworker.service.in)
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> and this conf file ensures that only polkitd running as root can start it: http://pastebin.com/tBfQBCDx
[23:22] <JontheEchidna> brb, pizza
[23:23] <apachelogger> I recon dbus is using like a libloader here
[23:23]  * apachelogger either misses a piece to understand this propery or policykit is the greatest workaround in the history of linux
[23:23] <apachelogger> s/using/used
[23:29]  * JontheEchidna back
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> yeah, though sudo is sort of working around posix deficiencies as well
[23:29] <JontheEchidna> it's just a well established workaround ;)
[23:31] <apachelogger> well
[23:32] <apachelogger> sudo carries out posix
[23:32] <apachelogger> policykit actually works aroudn it
[23:33] <JontheEchidna> http://kdeatopensuse.wordpress.com/2010/06/05/week-22-kde-at-opensuse/ <- we should really be doing a similar blog about kubuntu dev activities
[23:33] <ScottK> Sure.
[23:34] <ScottK> Of course that one includes the standard opensuse strategy of just disabling things with problems rather than fixing them.
[23:34] <JontheEchidna> heh
[23:46] <siegie> ScottK: About that video link you posted earlier. It is in german.  He tested a alpha version off the netbook remix in march and was verry impressed "wunderschön"= wonderfull beautiful, he named no disadvantage or wat so ever.
[23:47] <ScottK> siegie: Thank you.
[23:47] <ScottK> From his tone, it sounded good, but I had no idea.
[23:52] <siegie> ScottK: np, my german is beter than my English :)
[23:56] <CIA-91> [libqapt] jmthomas * 1134972 * trunk/playground/libs/libqapt/src/ (globals.h package.h) Move the UpdateImportance enum to globals.h, where it belongs. I'll commit a PackageState move next, after I port things for the API change