[00:00] <bluesabre> anybody know when the ubiquity black background started this cycle?
[00:05] <bluesabre> I think one of the last times this happened, it was because ubiquity broke symlink support
[00:36] <bluesabre> hm, it looks like ubiquity only sets the background to black
[00:36] <bluesabre> and that xfsettingsd is assumed to set it
[00:36] <Unit193> Last time x-d-s had to use gsettings/gconf/etc to set it.
[00:38] <bluesabre> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8469614/
[00:39] <bluesabre> maybe this is the problem... No such schema 'org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.background'
[00:39] <bluesabre> going to try trusty iso and see what that same log has in it
[00:40] <Unit193> [org.gnome.desktop.background]
[00:40] <Unit193> picture-uri='file:///usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/xubuntu-wallpaper.png'
[00:40] <Unit193> Pretty sure that was added, yeah.
[00:41] <bluesabre> good news is that we can probably cheat and drop feh into our live deps
[00:42] <bluesabre> but we can do better than that :)
[00:55] <bluesabre> dang, nothing really different between the two logs
[11:56] <ochosi> hey folks, sorry can't make the meeting tonight
[11:58]  * ochosi will be travelling again
[12:00] <ochosi> bbabl
[12:00] <knome> boo ;)
[17:00] <PaulW2U> elfy, re bug #1351590, great to see my bug report in the Xubuntu Beta 2 release notes but I'm no longer seeing this bug on any *buntu flavour
[17:01] <PaulW2U> I don't know if anyone has specifically tested for this bug but I feel that it should either be closed or marked as invalid
[17:02] <PaulW2U> I'll carry on testing all flavours for a while but Xubuntu was the only flavour that acknowledged this bug
[17:11] <elfy> PaulW2U: pretty much what happens is if I see bugs in tests recently I'll list them
[17:12] <elfy> things like that are particularly hard for me to deal with as wifi just works for me :)
[17:14] <PaulW2U> OK, my test laptop only uses wi-fi so if I'm not seeing that bug close to release time I may mark it incomplete if no-one else confirms it before then.
[17:15] <elfy> ok - if no-one else reports it I'll ignore it from now on
[17:19] <PaulW2U> great, no point in littering release notes that only one person has seen and may be hardware specific anyway ;)
[17:58] <elfy> anyone seen slickymasterWork lately
[17:59] <knome> i've never seen him
[17:59] <knome> :P :P :P
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> there's still 2 minutes
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> correction, one now
[18:00] <slickymasterWork> !team | meeting time
[18:00] <slickymasterWork> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct  1 18:00:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is slickymasterWork. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[18:00] <dkessel> I'll try to participate somehow today. If I can...
[18:00] <pleia2> o/
[18:00] <slickymasterWork> So who's here for the meeting?
[18:00] <elfy> possibly :)
[18:00] <slickymasterWork> #chair knome pleia2
[18:00] <meetingology> Current chairs: knome pleia2 slickymasterWork
[18:00]  * dkessel
[18:02] <slickymasterWork> with just three attendants it will be a quick one I guess :P
[18:02] <elfy> ignoring me then are you :|
[18:02] <slickymasterWork> knome, ping
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> now elfy, you were included in those three, with pleia2 and dkessel
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> s/now/no
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> anyway
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> #topic Open action items
[18:04] <slickymasterWork> I guess the only open item is QA Incentives
[18:04] <slickymasterWork> http://pad.ubuntu.com/QAIncentive
[18:04] <elfy> not sure why that's still there tbh
[18:04] <pleia2> I still have to contact the sticker folks
[18:05] <pleia2> should have a plan for when they say "sure, we'll send you X, where to?"
[18:05] <pleia2> I can be the sticker mule and ship them out from here
[18:05] <slickymasterWork> thanks for that pleia2
[18:05] <dkessel> hmm that pad does not state the goal of the incentives intiative, or does it?
[18:06] <pleia2> the goal is to make people do testing ;)
[18:06] <dkessel> define testing
[18:06] <elfy> dkessel: check out the numbers of people testing - should be self-explanatory then
[18:06] <dkessel> run manual tests?
[18:06] <slickymasterWork> yes, increase the number of reported tests
[18:06] <elfy> and images
[18:06] <pleia2> package and iso tests
[18:07] <dkessel> ok ok. i was not part of the discussion that lead to that pad ;)
[18:07] <pleia2> see line 3 :)
[18:07] <dkessel> making automatic test coverage better could be another goal
[18:07] <knome> pong
[18:08] <slickymasterWork> wb knome ;)
[18:08] <elfy> dkessel: images are tested daily - or should be - that though doesn't mean it catches all bugs with that - reference all the vm bugs, the black background missing and others
[18:09] <elfy> and auto package testing we've been trying to get off the ground for 3 cycles
[18:09] <elfy> that is still currently grinding it's face along the floor
[18:09] <dkessel> i remember...
[18:09] <dkessel> if only i had more time
[18:09] <elfy> :)
[18:10] <slickymasterWork> anyway, per what pleia2 stated I don't think we should consider it as # done
[18:10] <slickymasterWork> or does anyone has a different view?
[18:11] <elfy> I agree - but I don't see there's much to be gained by bringing it up each week - unless we just postpone it week by week
[18:11] <pleia2> we should split it into action items
[18:11] <slickymasterWork> pleia2, knome, what are your views ^^
[18:11] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to contact unixstickers
[18:11] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to contact unixstickers
[18:11] <slickymasterWork> okie dokie
[18:11] <slickymasterWork> moving on
[18:12] <slickymasterWork> #topic Team updates
[18:12] <elfy> that's the only urgentish bit - the t-shirts aren't needed till after 15.04 releases
[18:12] <slickymasterWork> elfy, beta 2. The floor is yours
[18:12] <elfy> I can go - got mine in a txt file
[18:12] <elfy> #info  Final Beta testing 64bit 9 install tests, 6 livesession and 3 post install tests
[18:12] <elfy> #info  Final Beta testing 32bit 9 install tests, 7 livesession and 2 post install tests
[18:12] <elfy> #info  Final Beta testing Team Testing - (excluding XPL & QA Lead) - 5 team members (50%) tested images during Final Beta, 3 outside team tested. 10 total.
[18:12] <elfy> that's the beta stuff
[18:13] <elfy> #info bug 1375893 needs to be sorted soon
[18:13] <elfy> #info vm bug(s) still present - should be fixed tomorrow (2/10)
[18:13] <elfy> done
[18:13] <slickymasterWork> well, half of the team did manage to test :)
[18:13] <GridCube> \o
[18:13] <slickymasterWork> that's an improvement
[18:13] <elfy> not good really - 9 tests for each arch
[18:14] <slickymasterWork> those numbers are better then beta1 anyway
[18:14] <elfy> pointless me saying anymore on that
[18:14] <GridCube> is that more or less than last cycle averages?
[18:14] <elfy> I would guess that we got more people testing 1 milestone last cycle than we've had test the whole of this cycle
[18:14] <GridCube> thats quite bad
[18:15] <slickymasterWork> yeah, but last cycle was a LTS one
[18:15] <elfy> yep - I've given up tbh - I just send the calls out because I said I would
[18:15] <knome> yes, LTS+1 is always slow and quiet
[18:15] <elfy> and someone should
[18:15] <knome> still more or less afk
[18:15] <GridCube> thats understable elfy
[18:15] <elfy> knome: that may be so - but I expect more from -team
[18:16] <elfy> some haven't tested and reported all cycle
[18:16] <elfy> I shouldn't have to ask team seperately
[18:17] <slickymasterWork> and that's to be expected elfy. -team should set an example
[18:17] <knome> yes, agree, and i'm sorry
[18:17] <elfy> move on to whoever else has team updates
[18:17] <elfy> knome: I'm not pointing fingers at *anyone* - team is team
[18:17] <slickymasterWork> pleia2, any marketing updates?
[18:17] <knome> yes, we should get better with 15.04...
[18:17] <pleia2> #info knome and pleia2 working to engage users more with #LoveXubuntu idea: http://pad.ubuntu.com/Nl1LbS6DqL
[18:18] <pleia2> I think that's it for now
[18:19] <knome> yep, will put some time to that
[18:19] <elfy> never seen that
[18:19]  * slickymasterWork neither
[18:19] <knome> well, that's a new idea;)
[18:20] <pleia2> it evolved out of some engagement discussions in the spring, we finally came up with an idea ;)
[18:20] <elfy> should perhaps have been on agenda or should be in future then
[18:20] <pleia2> it's not happening immediately, just a quick fyi now, we'll flesh it out and agendaize it later
[18:20] <elfy> k
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> ok, I think we can safely skip 'Announcements' or does anyone have any?
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> right
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> #topic Discussion
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> #subtopic list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
[18:22] <slickymasterWork> so, with the intention of encouraging people to translate, knome come up with the idea of either creating a wikipage that lists all software that we ship/care about and where their translations are being done or update the "Get involved" page for translations
[18:22] <slickymasterWork> so we sketched up a listing of projects of which translations, Xubuntu care about -> http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-apps-translations
[18:22] <slickymasterWork> the idea would be to have a sane list of projects we need/want to maintain translations for
[18:22] <knome> ^ that list should probably go to the "processes" page
[18:23] <slickymasterWork> yes, but firstly I would like that -team would have some sort of an opinion on the list itself
[18:24] <slickymasterWork> any takers?
[18:24] <elfy> might have been useful to have it on the agenda - no-one knew you were going to discuss it :)
[18:24] <knome> yes, but since processes is editable by anyone any time, we should drop that list there soonish
[18:24] <slickymasterWork> that's my fault :P
[18:24] <knome> well it's brought up now P
[18:25] <elfy> currently that list looks sane
[18:25] <slickymasterWork> elfy, any app you think that might/ought be added?
[18:25] <knome> assign a work item to me to send a mail to the list and i'll do that today
[18:25] <slickymasterWork> or dropped?
[18:26] <elfy> slickymasterWork: why are the out of scope ones there?
[18:26] <slickymasterWork> #action knome to send a mail to the list regarding list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
[18:26] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to send a mail to the list regarding list of projects we need/want to maintain translations
[18:26] <slickymasterWork> to which ones are you referring elfy ?
[18:26] <elfy> the 4 in the out of scope list
[18:27] <elfy> gimp, abiword, gnumeric and gmb
[18:27] <slickymasterWork> those were/are ment for discussion
[18:27] <elfy> still ambivalent about gmb anyway - not sure we should seed that at all
[18:27] <elfy> parole plays music
[18:27] <knome> elfy, that's another discussion, and i partly agree
[18:28] <slickymasterWork> but just plays music
[18:28] <knome> but let's leave that for some other time
[18:28] <elfy> using the same argument that we used for xchat/pidgin - we don't need both
[18:28] <slickymasterWork> elfy, pidgin is going to be used as IRC interface
[18:28] <elfy> ok - well lets deal with the translations first - sorry :)
[18:29] <slickymasterWork> I'll add this item to the agenda for the next meeting
[18:29] <slickymasterWork> anything else?
[18:29] <elfy> why not discuss it in a moment?
[18:29] <slickymasterWork> sure
[18:30] <dkessel> i would suggest including abiword and gnumeric in "Used by Xubuntu"
[18:30] <dkessel> as they are the default office applications, and office apps are important for users
[18:30] <elfy> so - translations - I'd guess that those for anything we have as default should be covered
[18:30] <knome> i'll send comments on the mail for the reason why they are not on the list
[18:30] <knome> elfy, you/we can discuss gmb now, but i'm more or less off
[18:30] <elfy> if it's an issue of people and time - that's something else
[18:31] <knome> so it wouldn't be very sensible...
[18:31] <elfy> knome: that could be said for any discussion we have where we've only got 2 or 3 people kicking about
[18:31] <knome> it's that; and gnome has it's own translation teams, and i don't think translating gnumeric/abiword is the #1 item for our translators who already are limited and have limited time
[18:32] <elfy> knome: ok - I can ack that concern completely
[18:32] <knome> elfy, i'm not saying you can't have the discussion, but i can't bring any thoughts in it :)
[18:32] <knome> but as i said, yes, we should consider dropping gmb
[18:32] <knome> though i'd like *some* media player that handles *collections* in some way as a replacement
[18:32] <dkessel> ok, then it is sane to only list default apps where there are not many people currently involved with translations...
[18:32] <knome> but that's something i don't have time to argument for
[18:32] <slickymasterWork> the way I see that list has to be a compromise between the perspective of newly come into xubuntu/linux ecosystem users and what existing xubuntu users are interested in
[18:33] <elfy> I'd be happier perhaps to see the out of scope items called when we've got time :)
[18:33] <knome> the #1 thing to translate is the xubuntu documentation
[18:33] <knome> then we got all the core components + xfce
[18:33] <knome> then everything else that's seeded in xubuntu
[18:33] <knome> and then everything in the repository
[18:33] <slickymasterWork> it's up to the -team to prioritize the translations elfy
[18:33] <elfy> I've not got a problem with saying foo is more important to us than bar
[18:33] <knome> there will *always* be fallback items
[18:34] <elfy> out of scope just suggests never to me :)
[18:34] <knome> and there is always people who rather use their time translating gnumeric than xubuntu docs, so *shrug*
[18:34] <slickymasterWork> and we must not forget that all xfce stuff is already covered by https://wiki.xfce.org/translations
[18:34] <knome> elfy, yes, they wouldn't be on the list if they don't move to any other group :)
[18:35] <elfy> as it stands - that list looks sane to me in general
[18:35] <slickymasterWork> pleia2 what's your take on this?
[18:36] <slickymasterWork> mm, okay. Anything else?
[18:37] <slickymasterWork> right, so who's next chairing?
[18:37] <elfy> pleia2
[18:37] <slickymasterWork> pleia2, want to schedule now?
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> lol, she fall asleep :)
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> #action pleia2 to schedule the next meeting.
[18:38] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to schedule the next meeting.
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> that's it
[18:38] <slickymasterWork> #endmeeting
[18:38] <meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct  1 18:38:51 2014 UTC.
[18:38] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-01-18.00.moin.txt
[18:39] <elfy> so we'll not bother starting a discussion on gmb then lol
[18:40] <slickymasterWork> I'll be glad to elfy, but first I have to go home for dinner :P
[18:41]  * slickymasterWork damns https://login.ubuntu.com
[18:42] <elfy> hating on the wiki again :)
[18:43] <slickymasterWork> I'm still waiting on it to login :P
[18:50] <slickymasterWork> minutes are finally up
[18:51] <slickymasterWork> I'm off now
[18:51] <slickymasterWork> cy later ->
[19:11] <pleia2> sorry, had a call
[19:16] <dkessel> hmm. does anybody have an idea how to debug what "update-manager -d -c" is doing all the time? i am trying to do an 14.04 -> 14.10 update test and it is not doing anything anymore after selecting "upgrade..." - yet the process is not finished...
[19:25] <dkessel> i'll just file a bug
[19:39] <dkessel> there you go: bug 1376414


[07:58] <dholbach> good morning
[13:23] <MooDoo> hello all
[14:45] <dholbach> does somebody want to get in touch with these people: http://ubuntungo.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/milieudefensie-friends-of-the-earth-netherlands-%E2%80%93-ngo-interview/#comment-126 ?