[01:03] <G> hads: ohh thanks
[01:10]  * thumper has two launchers
[01:10] <thumper> oh yeah
[01:11] <thumper> plugged in external monitor
[01:11] <ajmitch> it just works now?
[01:11] <thumper> in precise
[01:11] <thumper> with the unity ppa
[01:11] <thumper> each monitor gets its own launcher
[01:11] <thumper> if you have hide behaviour
[01:11] <thumper> it works nicely
[01:11] <ajmitch> the only multi-monitor box I have is running lucid still
[01:11] <thumper> there is a cursor barrier
[01:11] <thumper> using XFixes
[01:12] <thumper> which adds resistance on screen boundaries
[01:12] <thumper> it's very nice
[01:12] <thumper> no more accidental launcher pop-outs either
[01:12] <thumper> as you now have to push past the edge of the screen to get the launcher
[01:12] <ajmitch> that's good
[01:13]  * thumper tries unplugging
[01:13] <ajmitch> thumper: but will you ever be able to move the launcher? ;)
[01:15]  * thumper sighs
[01:15] <thumper> not at this stage
[01:16] <ajmitch> I know that precise was going to introduce more configuration, didn't know how far that'd extend
[01:26] <codepal> having problems with rhythmbox, stop and starts
[01:26] <codepal> isn't contiguous when more CPU is in use...
[02:30] <hads> G: :)
[02:31]  * hads grumbles at the mess on the floow and few hendred meg of scanned image invoices I have.
[02:32]  * hads gets annoyed that he always puts an "I" in there.
[05:06] <chilts> hads: how do you store all your scans? at the moment, I just whack them as PDFs into a Git repo!
[05:06] <chilts> it works, but I suspect it'll get a little big over time
[05:06] <chilts> (oh, and I use PDF since that's easier for auditors and accountants)
[05:07] <lifeless> ajmitch: sure you can, just rotate the tablet :P
[05:11] <ajmitch> lifeless: that's a bit harder when it's a laptop & I want to still use the keyboard :)
[05:11] <lifeless> bricks?
[05:11] <lifeless> I'd love it to be movable too
[05:12] <ajmitch> yeah, I wasn't complaining that it wasn't, just wondering if the decision was made to allow it yet
[06:37] <hads> chilts: PDF in direcories.
[06:38] <hads> Currently have ~2GB
[07:17] <chilts> yeah, you probably do a lot more transactions than I do :)
[07:30] <hads> Wrote a little script to name them for their date etc. and that's about it. Very rarely look at them.
[07:53] <mwhudson> yay for the fear of the IRD i guess?
[09:05] <hads> Yup, pretty much.
[09:06] <hads> Occasionally to check things for GST etc.
[09:06] <hads> Apart from that just archives.
[09:31] <chilts> same here, for IRD purposes mainly
[19:00] <mwhudson> morning
[19:01] <ajmitch> morning
[19:39] <chilts> morning
[20:23] <hads> morning
[22:04] <Atamira> morning
[22:20] <kcj> morning
[23:12] <codepal> mmm - lunch


[00:07] <Barridus> i'm enjoying 12.04 very much, thanks for your hard work (if anyone's here that was involved with it)
[00:08] <GridCube> :) they will know
[00:26] <jarrettw> quick question, I grabbed the 12.04 beta last week, what do I need to do to upgrade the final release?
[00:27] <aguitel> jarrettw, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[00:27] <jarrettw> cool will do
[00:27] <jarrettw> thanks!
[01:12] <malv1> i keep getting a checksum fail with xubuntu alternate 12.04
[01:13] <GridCube> how do you get the file?
[01:14] <malv1> torrent
[01:14] <malv1> the iso md5 matches the website, but during installation it says that xorg-xserver-ati failed checksum
[01:14] <Unit193> I'd personally recommend you zsync the rest, but torrent should be good™
[01:14] <Unit193> Ah, wrong checksum./
[01:14] <malv1> well, like I said, the ISO passes the md5 test
[01:17] <Barridus> is there a keystroke to lock the screen?
[01:18] <malv1> ctrl alt delete
[01:18] <Barridus> lol is that real
[01:20] <Mike-Linux-NL> test
[01:20] <drc> fail
[01:24] <Mike-Linux-NL> i commented on a thread on OMG ubuntu about the press release of Ubuntu 12.04
[01:24] <Mike-Linux-NL> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/04/press-reaction-to-ubuntu-12-04-mostly-positive/#comment-513861709
[01:27] <Barridus> is it possible to change the lock screen image from the generic x-window flaming monitor to something else? XD
[01:27] <Barridus> (not sure what to call it)
[01:29] <malv1> does xubuntu work with efi at all?
[01:37] <malv1> anyone had success with usb + xubuntu 12.04 alternate 64-bit?
[01:44] <malv1> well, when I create the cd using ubuntu usb creator I don't get corruption of that file
[01:44] <malv1> another file reports corruption
[01:46] <Mike-Linux-NL> i always use Unetbootin
[01:46] <Mike-Linux-NL> works like a charm
[01:46] <Barridus> same
[01:46] <malv1> i get the problem using unetbootin
[01:46] <malv1> corruption at the same spot
[01:46] <Barridus> i was gonna say that too, mike XD
[01:46] <malv1> tried two different ssd cards
[01:48] <malv1> is there a way to verify if an sd card is bad?
[01:53] <Barridus> hmm, why is hibernation greyed out everywhere?  i prefer that to suspend
[01:55] <Unit193> How much ram compared to swap do you have?
[01:57] <Barridus> 1gb ram, i think i set the swap to 2gb
[01:58] <Barridus> hmmm
[01:59] <Barridus> i'm looking in gparted, the swap is shown as "unknown"
[01:59] <Unit193> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu#PrecisePangolin.2BAC8-ReleaseNotes.2BAC8-CommonInfrastructure.Common_Infrastructure
[02:01] <Barridus> ah that explains it, thanks Unit193
[02:01] <Unit193> Sure thing.
[02:02] <Barridus> gonna test it and re-enable it (if it works)
[02:05] <Barridus> and, it didn't XD
[02:08] <malv1> wow, I think it installed this time
[02:08] <Unit193> All else fails and you can use the !mini
[02:10] <Barridus> !mini
[02:11] <Barridus> suspend's always worried me
[02:11] <Barridus> is it still safe to throw in a laptop bag like hibernate is?  (that's why i've always hibernated)
[02:12] <Unit193> I suspend mine, but it's in a docking station due to screen being fudged.
[02:14] <Barridus> i mean if this was stationary, i wouldn't worry about it
[02:15] <Barridus> i'd like to avoid shutting it down completely because dropbox takes forever to fire up
[02:17] <Barridus> oh well i'll live
[02:49] <malv1> ubuntu is the flakiest OS Ive ever used. I attempted to install the ati proprietary through jockey, and for whatever reason it failed. Now my system is unbootable.
[02:49] <malv1> *sigh*
[02:49] <malv1> cant even boot into recovery mode
[03:23] <rolesp> hello all
[03:42] <fernando_> hi
[03:43] <Xubuntu_dasads> dassd
[03:43] <Xubuntu_dasads> somebody?
[03:49] <pleia2> Xubuntu_dasads: if you're looking to chat, you're welcome to join #xubuntu-offtopic
[03:49] <pleia2> otherwise this is a support channel :) so you can just ask your question
[03:50] <Xubuntu_dasads> ah OK
[03:50] <Xubuntu_dasads> then I ask
[03:50] <Xubuntu_dasads> I'm having problems in Xubutu using ssh tunnels
[03:51] <Xubuntu_dasads> I use ssh -Lxx:local_server:xx -p yy user@remote_server
[03:51] <Xubuntu_dasads> thats how I create a persistant connection to connec to anothe local computer in that network
[03:52]  * pleia2 nods
[03:52] <Xubuntu_dasads> so when I conect to the local server in that network on another terminal it stucks after some secconds
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> so the tunnel ssh connection is lost
[03:53] <pleia2> does it work before it gets stuck?
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> nop
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> It freezes the terminal
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> I dont have that problem in ubuntu
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> only in xubuntu
[03:53] <pleia2> so it doesn't get stuck, it just doesn't establish the tunnel
[03:53] <Xubuntu_dasads> nono
[03:54] <Xubuntu_dasads> it establish the tunnel
[03:54] <Xubuntu_dasads> I can connect to a local IP in that network
[03:54] <Xubuntu_dasads> but only for some secconds
[03:54] <pleia2> so it does work before it gets stuck?
[03:54] <Xubuntu_dasads> yeap
[03:55] <pleia2> might want to try keepalive in your ssh config
[03:55] <Xubuntu_dasads> let me see
[03:55] <pleia2> I have this in mine: ServerAliveInterval 180
[03:55] <pleia2> just at the top of ~/.ssh/config
[03:56] <pleia2> I don't need it for most servers I ssh into, but some have some annoying firewalls that like to shut down connections
[03:56] <pleia2> if that doesn't work, you can try debugging by adding the -vvv flags to your ssh command
[03:56] <Xubuntu_dasads> I think is not firewall issue cause Ubuntu keeps the connection alive always
[03:57] <Xubuntu_dasads> its only when I try connecting on Xubuntu
[03:57] <pleia2> sorry, that was just an example
[03:57] <pleia2> there are a lot of reasons a keepalive may help
[03:57] <pleia2> good luck
[03:57] <Xubuntu_dasads> I'm trying that config
[03:57] <Xubuntu_dasads> thanks
[03:57] <Xubuntu_dasads> :D
[04:05] <Cyberacid> 2 minutes and counting
[04:05] <Cyberacid> ;)
[04:07] <Cyberacid> looks like it gets fixed
[04:07] <rolesp> where I can check screen config, resolution and refresh rate?
[04:07] <Cyberacid> Thanks very much pleia
[04:08] <Cyberacid> go to config manager
[04:08] <Cyberacid> screen section
[04:08] <rolesp> cant find there
[04:08] <pleia2> Cyberacid: great!
[04:08] <Cyberacid> ;D
[04:09] <rolesp> ok, my fault, founded
[04:09] <Cyberacid> :P
[04:20] <xubuntu995> Hello, anyone around?
[04:22] <holstein> !ask | xubuntu995
[04:23] <xubuntu995> So I upgraded to precise recently and video thumbnails are no longer generated
[04:24] <xubuntu995> Thumbnails from 11.10 persist in the thumbnail cache but all new files (and renamed old files) will no longer get a thumbnail
[04:25] <holstein> in thunar?
[04:25] <xubuntu995> I suspect it's trying to generate a thumbnail because when  browse a network share with some videos on it, network usage spikes up
[04:25] <xubuntu995> Yes
[04:25] <xubuntu995> Image thumbnails still work
[04:26] <xubuntu995> E.g. making a copy of a jpg will generate a thumbnail for the new file
[04:29] <Stark> Hi guys
[04:30] <Stark> Anyone successfully installed Xubuntu on a laptop with WiFi on?
[04:30] <holstein> Stark: i have used xubuntu with wifi...and othe buntu's
[04:31] <Stark> Hey holstien, what kind of laptop did you use
[04:31] <holstein> Stark: several
[04:31] <holstein> Stark: quite a few
[04:32] <Stark> Going try kubuntu later... on HP Folio
[04:32] <Stark> Xubuntu got some issues
[04:32] <holstein> its not so much "what kind of laptop", its more about the chipset of the wifi devcie
[04:32] <holstein> Stark: nah.. you're device might not be supported well in linux
[04:33] <Stark> Not sure if Intel or Broadcom lol
[04:35] <holstein> Stark: you'll find out
[04:35] <holstein> Stark: you can always use the windows driver too...
[04:35] <Stark> So, you tested all of them? Which one better? I heard Kubuntu will stop at 12.04
[04:36] <xubuntu995> holstein: So video thumbnails work for you?
[04:38] <holstein> xubuntu995: i havent checked
[04:39] <holstein> xubuntu995: i dont really use xubuntu like that
[04:39] <holstein> Stark: kubuntu is not going anywehre
[04:39] <xubuntu995> Well it's pretty eays, just download a video file and see if thunar gets a thumbnail :)
[04:40] <Stark> Ok so the only choice left would be Xubuntu or Ubuntu lol
[04:40] <holstein> xubuntu995: i dont have it in front of me right now, if thats ok
[04:40] <holstein> xubuntu995: i dont recall any issues ith thumbails
[04:40] <holstein> xubuntu995: you are welcome to wait here though and see if anyone else shares your issue, or has a fix
[04:41] <holstein> xubuntu995: i would suggest making a new user account, logging in, and seeing if the situation is the same
[04:41] <holstein> xubuntu995: this will help you deterimine if its a config isue
[04:41] <holstein> issue*
[04:41] <holstein> Stark: ?
[04:41] <xubuntu995> I doubt  it's that because it affects multiple computers
[04:41] <holstein> Stark: there's ubuntu with whatever DE you like... LXDE or unity or XFCE.. whatever..
[04:42] <holstein> lubuntu = ubuntu with LXDE for example..
[04:42] <Stark> It's alright. I'll just use whatever works to my laptop.
[04:42] <holstein> xubuntu995: i would agree, thought i didnt realize this was happnening on multuple machines
[04:43] <xubuntu995> In 11.10 thumbnails had problems without installing the tumbler-plugins-extra package but that didn't fix anything here
[04:43] <Stark> Woot, the battery power manager doesn't update precisely...
[04:44] <holstein> xubuntu995: i would still try with a live CD just to take you out of the equation
[04:48] <xubuntu896> whoops, closed the wrong window
[04:49] <xubuntu896> Anyway, i'll just load the livecd in a VM
[04:52] <rolesp> \quit
[04:58] <xubuntu896> Yup it doesn't work
[04:59] <xubuntu896> Even after install tumbler-plugins-extra
[04:59] <holstein> maybe thats been dropped from thunar
[04:59] <xubuntu896> That's really silly
[05:00] <xubuntu896> Considering that just added thumbnail support to the desktop
[05:00] <holstein> xubuntu896: wel, its allegedly silly
[05:00] <holstein> xubuntu896: im just speculating
[05:00] <xubuntu896> I also see huge network activity when browsing network shares with videos
[05:00] <xubuntu896> So it's definitely reading the files
[05:00] <xubuntu896> I guess I can run perf and see what it's actually trying to do
[05:07] <xubuntu896> So it might be trying to use gstreamer to read the files
[05:07] <xubuntu896> Which would explain the problem
[05:08] <xubuntu896> I think the old backend used ffmpeg
[05:19] <xubuntu896> Yea, looks like debian maintainers switched over to
[05:19] <xubuntu896> gstreamer as per recommendation from upstream in october
[05:19] <xubuntu896> Which explains why it used to work and now doesn't
[05:22] <xubuntu896> Great, so either I can rebuild tumbler with ffmpeg support or figure out how to make gstreamer understand h264. Excellent.
[05:26] <xubuntu896> Oh, thankfully there's a ffmpeg backend for gstreamer. YAY
[05:50] <yell0w> hey guys how do i change the color of the active tab in xfce4-terminal ?
[05:53] <twilson_> When upgrading from 11.10 to 12.04 the download of a particular package failed midway. Now my installation is stalled and there's no way to prod it back into action, should I ctrl c?
[05:53] <twilson_> It says: Ctrl-c pressed This will abort the operation and may leave the system in a broken state. Are you sure you want to do this?
[05:54] <yell0w> twilson_: are you upgrading from the terminal ?
[05:54] <twilson_> There is a terminal in the Distribution Upgrade window
[05:54] <twilson_> I'm using that
[05:55] <yell0w> if it's in the middle of downloading then i don't think anything's updated/installed yet
[05:55] <yell0w> i think you can cancel it and restart
[05:55] <yell0w> it'll pick up from where it left off i believe
[05:55] <twilson_> well I guess that's my only option
[05:56] <yell0w> you should have the downloaded .deb's in /var/cache/apt
[05:56] <yell0w> /var/cache/apt/archives actually :)
[05:57] <twilson_> yeah
[05:57] <yell0w> is the upgrade restated ?
[05:57] <yell0w> restarted*
[06:00] <twilson_> no ctrl c didn't abort anything
[06:00] <yell0w> just close the upgrade window and restart the upgrade
[06:01] <twilson_> There's no close button
[06:01] <twilson_> I'm going to to have to kill the process
[06:02] <yell0w> that'd work
[06:02] <twilson_> so that worked, it killed the dropbox download and now it's continuing with the rest
[06:03] <twilson_> and I doubt that anything else depends on dropbox so it should be ok
[06:03] <yell0w> cool :)
[06:03] <yell0w> twilson_: do you know how to change the color of the active tab in xfce4-terminal ?
[06:05] <twilson_> no, sorry
[06:06] <well_laid_lawn> there's colour choices in the preference dialog for the terminal
[06:07] <yell0w> erhm there's only choices for text,curosr,background and tab activity
[06:07] <yell0w> there's none for active tab color
[06:08] <twilson_> you probably need to adjust the current xubuntu theme somehow
[06:08] <yell0w> the active tab right now is a bit lighter color than the rest, so i think there's a setting somewhere
[06:08] <yell0w> but it's very light difference and i can't really distinguish much
[06:08] <yell0w> so it's the theme ?
[06:08] <twilson_> seeing as tabs colours are the same for all xubuntu tabs, and not specific to terminal
[06:09] <twilson_> I'd say so yes
[07:59] <SandJ> I logged into Xubuntu 11.10 using the "Xfce Session" option out of curiosity.  Now, when I go in using "Xubuntu Session" the panel over-lays part of the desktop, windows have no titlebar, I can't type in a Terminal session, Windows overlay the Panel, Alt-Tab doesn't work, etc.    How do I get my Xubuntu working properly again?
[08:00] <Sysi> SandJ: alt F2 "xfwm4 --replace"
[08:00] <Sysi> and fix for next login, rm -rf ~/.cache/sessions
[08:10] <SandJ> @Sysi: Thank you.
[08:18] <koegs> is there a ppa for xfce 4.10 final?
[08:19] <Stark> Anyone using Arch
[08:20] <koegs> Stark: maybe you can ask in #xubuntu-offtopic
[08:21] <Stark> Ok, anyone solved the wifi issue on laptop?
[09:10] <cousteau`nbk> The xubuntu 12.04 64b live CD won't boot on this machine
[09:11] <cousteau`nbk> it's a 64b machine, when booting (after the splash screen) I get a screen with something that looks like dmesg and it freezes there; it doesn't even allow me to Alt-SysRq-REISUB
[09:11] <cousteau`nbk> maybe some graphics card issue?
[09:12] <cousteau`nbk> (disk MD5 is ok)
[09:12] <cousteau`nbk> (well, at least the ISO is ok...  maybe there was a record error)
[09:15] <cousteau`nbk> last messages are (newer to older):  system_call_fastpath, sys_init_module, do_one_initcall, nouveau_init, ? 0xffffffffa0173fff, ? vga_switcheroo_register_handler. drm_pci_init, __pci_register_driver, driver_register ...
[09:15] <Sysi> I'd try with another disk, or usb
[09:15] <cousteau`nbk> any idea?  tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 to F12 with no success
[09:16] <cousteau`nbk> I could check the disk...  but I don't have a computer with Linux and a CD drive
[09:16] <cousteau`nbk> wait...  I think I do
[09:19] <cousteau`nbk> damn, the only computer with linux here is password-protected (and I don't know the password)
[09:20] <cousteau`nbk> the CD should work, I tried it at home
[09:22] <cousteau`nbk> any way to MD5 a CD from Windows?
[09:22] <knome> cousteau`nbk, http://www.pc-tools.net/win32/md5sums/
[09:24] <cousteau`nbk> does it work for CDs?  (keep in mind this doesn't have /dev/cdrom)
[09:27] <knome> right, i don't know
[09:27] <xubuntu331> Hello!
[09:28] <xubuntu331> quick question
[09:28] <xubuntu331> I just got the notification from the update manager for ubuntu 12.04
[09:28] <xubuntu331> to update to 12.04
[09:28] <xubuntu331> should I download the update via the manager
[09:28] <xubuntu331> or via the website
[09:28] <xubuntu331> ?
[09:28] <xubuntu331> as it said its an update for ubuntu not xubuntu
[09:29] <knome> it says it's for ubuntu, but it will upgrade xubuntu
[09:29] <cousteau`nbk> hmm,  I typed "md5 cd windows" on duck duck go and got an MD5 of something...
[09:29] <knome> iirc that's even in the release notes
[09:29] <xubuntu331> ah! right
[09:29] <xubuntu331> thanks! :)
[09:29] <xubuntu331> Have a good day
[09:29] <knome> np
[09:29] <knome> you too
[09:30] <cousteau`nbk> does the *ubuntu cd come with some sort of disk checker for Windows?
[09:31] <knome> what do you mean with disk checker?
[09:32]  * cousteau`nbk tries "Check disc defects"
[09:32] <knome> right, yeah, that should be good too
[09:32]  * cousteau`nbk gets exactly the same "error" as before:  sorta like a dmesg
[09:33] <knome> directly when you start checking, or a bit later?
[09:33] <cousteau`nbk> interesting...  when I press a key, the NumLock LED blinks
[09:33] <cousteau`nbk> knome, directly when I select the option and hit enter
[09:33] <knome> mmh :/
[09:34]  * cousteau`nbk checks BIOS options
[09:35] <cousteau`nbk> maybe some sort of "free software protection"...  how do I check if the computer has something like that?  (UEFI or something alike)
[09:36] <cousteau`nbk> can I run the live CD in some sort of fail-safe mode?
[09:37] <knome> there is the safe mode graphics, but that doesn't help if the disc has defects
[09:37] <knome> and it doesn't help if you don't have problems with graphics
[09:37] <knome> or wait
[09:37] <knome> that's only alternate
[09:37] <knome> :P
[09:37] <knome> Unit193, halp
[09:38] <knome> :P
[09:40]  * cousteau`nbk tries on another computer and AARGH it booted directly to Win XP
[09:41] <Unit193> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootParameters not that, right?
[09:42]  * cousteau`nbk checks
[09:42] <cousteau`nbk> guess what, the "other computer" is a 32b one
[09:42]  * cousteau`nbk angry
[09:46] <cousteau`nbk> hey, acpi=off noaic nolapic seems to work!
[09:47] <cousteau`nbk> no idea what that means, though...
[09:48] <cousteau`nbk> "If the boot parameter options worked for you, you will need to make permanent changes in the file /boot/grub/menu.lst after the installation has completed."
[09:48] <cousteau`nbk> ye olde menu.lst...  nostalgia kicks in
[09:49] <Unit193> /etc/defualt/grub
[09:49] <Unit193> Only spell it right.
[09:49] <knome> :P
[09:50] <cousteau`nbk> "Check finished: no errors found"
[09:50] <cousteau`nbk> ok
[09:50] <cousteau`nbk> "Press any key to reboot your system"
[09:50] <cousteau`nbk> where's that key?  (hurr hurr)
[09:52] <Unit193> Top left, but not esc.
[09:53] <cousteau`nbk> just curious, what do acpi=off, noapic and nolapic do?  link?
[09:54]  * cousteau`nbk uses ddg.gg
[09:55] <Sysi> you don't necessarily need all of them
[09:56] <cousteau`nbk> yeah, I tried all of them and it worked...  was going to try with just one of them, but I don't know which one(s) should I choose
[09:59] <cousteau`nbk> acpi=off seems to be enough
[10:00] <cousteau`nbk> but I don't get the fancy splash!  only the text one
[10:02] <cousteau`nbk> hmm...  getting a black screen now...  but it seems to work
[10:02] <cousteau`nbk> oh, here it goes
[10:03] <cousteau`nbk> ugliest resolution ever, but it works
[10:05] <cousteau`nbk> step 2:  install drivers (can this be done on a live cd session?)
[10:06] <foobArrr> what does xfce4-settings-helper do exactly?
[10:09] <Unit193> xfce4-settings-helper - Settings daemon for Xfce
[10:09] <cousteau`nbk> hmm, screen settings claims I'm using a refresh rate of 0.0 Hz
[10:09] <cousteau`nbk> but it seems to go faster
[10:09] <cousteau`nbk> I mean, I see frames...  more than 1
[10:28] <f0x> how can i install xfce 4.10
[10:29] <baizon> f0x: ppa will be released soon
[10:30] <knome> f0x, any specific reason why you want to upgrade?
[10:30] <f0x> why does medit have issues with shortcuts in 12.04
[10:30] <f0x> used it in 11.10 and worked okay
[10:44] <tga> greetings
[10:44] <tga> I installed xfce on a clean 12.04 system and I seem to have trouble with my keyboard layout
[10:44] <Unit193> Howdy.
[10:45] <tga> it looks like US everywhere but it's a Dutch layout
[10:45] <tga> I did choose the Netherlands as location when installing
[10:45] <tga> XkbLayout is US, the Keyboard pane shows 102-key US
[10:46] <tga> any hints on finding and changing the actual keyboard layout?
[10:47] <tga> hm, nm, think I fixed it
[10:47] <tga> thanks, this place is good inspiration
[10:48] <knome> naturally
[10:48] <tga> I messed with the keyboard layout, changed it a few times
[10:48] <tga> went back to what I had before and now it works
[10:48]  * tga shrugs
[11:02] <tga> cheers
[13:25] <tomreyn> hi, i upgraded from 11.10 to 12.04 the other day and now i get this notification icon (a letter with a small number printed on a black circle on the bottom right) whenever i change the audio volume. when you click on this icon, a list of notifications shows up, in this case telling me that the adio volume is now at xx percent. which is a rather useless  presentation of this kind of information.
[13:25] <tomreyn> how can i get rid of this notification icon?
[13:27] <tomreyn> i have XFCE configured to "load the Gnome runtime environment" when starting up, maybe that's related.
[14:28] <twoten> I upgraded to xubuntu 12.04 and now my wireless won't work - I'm trying to run ifconfig up but I get Unknown Device for every variation of wlan and wlan0 etc
[14:28] <twoten> what should I do?
[15:02] <foobArrr> my keyboard shortcuts don't work anymore since upgrading to 12.04. only Print and <Alt>Print work, others (predefined and my own shortcuts) don't work.
[15:04] <foobArrr> no ubuntu upgrade brought as much trouble for me as 11.10 -> 12.04 :/
[15:05] <Sysi> foobArrr: are your shortcuts involving Ctrl?
[15:05] <foobArrr> no, Super
[15:06] <foobArrr> well, ctrl + escape doesn't work ether
[15:06] <junix659> i'm running security onion to test out some of the features, but I want to get ntop installed.  Is there a newer version nTop available for Xubuntu??
[15:07] <Sysi> foobArrr: do you see change in keykodes if you remap some of them?
[15:08] <foobArrr> change in keycodes?
[15:09] <Sysi> in keyboard settings you can see which keys have commands been bind to, if for example Ctrl is changed to Primary by xorg update, they stop working
[15:11] <foobArrr> I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. I tried setting them again, setting them to <Alt> instead of <Super>, both didn't work.
[15:14] <Marzata> foobArrr: you talk about changing layouts, right?
[15:14] <foobArrr> Marzata: no
[15:15] <foobArrr> I'm talking about "Application Shortcuts"
[15:16] <Marzata> foobArrr: ah, ok
[15:16] <foobArrr> I was wrong, the screenshot keys don't work either, they just make the screen / window flash white
[15:18] <foobArrr> wrong again, they do work. but the don't give me the xfce screenshot dialog, they directly store a screenshot in ~/Pictures
[15:18]  * foobArrr is confused
[15:29] <xubuntu044> $
[15:32] <foobArrr> compiz commands doesn't work either
[15:33] <italomaia> Hi folks!
[15:34] <italomaia> I'm having trouble umounting my drives in xubuntu 12.04
[15:34] <martinphone> me too italomaia
[15:34] <italomaia> anyone had the same problem? I plug my pendrive and than I can't umount it
[15:35] <martinphone> I have to use nautilus to unmount safely
[15:35] <italomaia> nautilus?
[15:35] <martinphone> do you?
[15:35] <italomaia> martinphone, well, if i just wait enough time, it umounts eventually
[15:35] <martinphone> alt+f2 nautilus
[15:35] <italomaia> this could be a bug
[15:36] <martinphone> thats odd italomaia
[15:36] <martinphone> it unmounts by itself?
[15:36] <italomaia> I don't have nautilus here
[15:36] <italomaia> no. I umount it manually.
[15:36] <martinphone> you mean you unplug it...
[15:37] <italomaia> No, a really umount it than unplug
[15:37] <italomaia> *then
[15:37] <martinphone> terminal
[15:37] <italomaia> no, through thunar
[15:38] <italomaia> I think tumblerd is related to the issue. lsof says tumblr is creating thumbs
[15:39] <tomreyn> hi, i upgraded from 11.10 to 12.04 the other day and now i get this notification icon (a letter with a small number printed on a black circle on the bottom right) whenever i change the audio volume. when you click on this icon, a list of notifications shows up, in this case telling me that the adio volume is now at xx percent. which is a rather useless  presentation of this kind of information. how can i get rid of this notification icon?
[15:39] <tomreyn> i have XFCE configured to "load the Gnome runtime environment" when starting up, maybe that's related.
[15:40] <foobArrr> the shortcuts in unity -> system settings -> keyboard work Oo
[15:42] <italomaia> Yap, the issue is related to tumblerd
[15:58] <foobArrr> I think I'll restore 11.10 backups *sigh*
[16:01] <oxic`> was 12.04 disasterous? =o i've seen issues, the classic bug with keyb psysical keys for volume mute (which could not be unmuted using these psy. buttons) are still present.
[16:01] <oxic`> damn developers! ^^
[16:02] <oxic`> also, the issue with note/netbooks and three-finger-tap to rightclick, still not functioning like as desired =/
[16:02] <oxic`> only these two issues i've got, so far.
[16:02] <drc> oxic`: That's funny...I found the mute/unmute problem on my laptop with 11.10, but NOT with 12.04 :)
[16:03] <oxic`> drc: oh, it was fixed w/ your 12.04? =o nice, gotta check one more time then.
[16:03] <drc> WFM (tm) :)
[16:06] <drc> The only problem I'm having with 12.04 is the old "first opening of thunar takes forever".
[16:15] <italomaia> I had issues with tumblerd blocking my usb devices
[16:17] <soreau> hey guys I'm trying to use alacarte to install a launch to the menu. Works fine exact the icon. The icon shows up in alacarte but not the menu. I tried restarting xfce4-panel but it didn't help. Does the icon need to be a certain size?
[17:39] <mips> How does one change the menu layout?
[18:14] <xuserx> is xfce 4.10 available for download now?
[18:14] <xubuntu440> hi
[18:14] <baizon> xuserx: no
[18:14] <xubuntu440> can anyone helme
[18:14] <xubuntu440> help me
[18:15] <baizon> !ask xubuntu440
[18:15] <xubuntu440> i instaled 12.04 recently
[18:15] <baizon> !ask | xubuntu440
[18:15] <xubuntu440> i am not able to double press any key button
[18:16] <xubuntu440> i need to give half second time delay to use same key again
[18:17] <xubuntu440> if i want to type tree, i need to give half sec time delay betwen tre(halfsec)e
[18:17] <xubuntu440> are you ther?
[18:18] <xubuntu440> anybody looking answer?
[18:20] <xubuntu297> hello
[18:21] <xubuntu440> hi
[18:21] <baizon> xubuntu440: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/keyboard
[18:21] <xubuntu297> can install xubuntu to a mac powerbook g4
[18:21] <xubuntu297> without mac os
[18:21] <xubuntu440> tnk u
[18:21] <xubuntu440> baizon i will try now
[18:21] <baizon> np
[18:22] <xubuntu297> hello
[18:22] <xubuntu297> is it possible to install xubuntu in a mac powerbook g4
[18:22] <xubuntu297> without mac os
[18:23] <baizon> xubuntu297: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3kZ4Gw7-fs
[18:23] <xubuntu297> where can i download a copy
[18:23] <baizon> so as you can see it is possible :)
[18:24] <xubuntu297> will the i386 work
[18:28] <baizon> xubuntu297: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCFAQ
[18:28] <baizon> there you have all the infos
[18:44] <nishttal2> does xubuntu use metacity?
[18:44] <nishttal2> window decorator?
[18:46] <baizon> nishttal2: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1819708
[19:18] <nishttal2> where do i put startup applications?
[19:19] <aguitel> i installed compiz but no windows decoration have
[19:20] <baizon> nishttal2: http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-session/preferences
[19:20] <armink> how do I turn off display mirroring on xubuntu? do the xfce settings really have no option for that? no way around (x/a/lx/foo)randr?
[19:21] <baizon> armink: indeed no support from xfce yet
[19:21] <baizon> im usind arandr
[19:22] <armink> k, thx
[19:28] <nishttal2> baizon.. thanks
[19:28] <baizon> np
[19:29] <nishttal2> the terminals in xubuntu do not have saved profiles like ubuntu?
[19:33] <armink> nishttal2, I don't think so, but I don't know for sure. using gnome-terminal on xubuntu should not be a problem, though.
[19:36] <aguitel> i want to delete some item in application menu ,how i do it?
[19:37] <drc> Applications Menu>Settings>Main Menu
[19:38] <aguitel> drc, i not found in menu
[19:39] <drc> aguitel: what version are you running?
[19:40] <aguitel> drc, 4.8
[19:40] <aguitel> i installed freenet and i want to delete it
[19:40] <drc> what version of Xubuntu?
[19:41] <aguitel> 12.04
[19:41] <aguitel> drc, i did
[19:41] <aguitel> thanks
[19:41] <drc> ok
[19:42] <aguitel> this is what i try :https://freenetproject.org/
[19:48] <hydester> anybody solve the problem with the speakers still working when headphones plugged in?  i thoguht i resolved this back pre-12.04, but now it is broken again.  tried http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1860789 without any luck
[19:50] <astraljava> How did you resolve it before? It's always possible there's a regression.
[19:50] <hydester> astraljava: trying to dig up my notes .. :(
[19:51] <GridCube> hydester, pavucontrol doesnt let you choose what output goes with with?
[19:53] <hydester> GridCube: all i see is port "Speakers"
[19:53] <GridCube> mmm
[20:02] <hydester> i'm pretty sure it was via some config file manually associating volumeup/volumedown commands
[20:05] <n2diy> how can I tell what is using my swap memory?
[20:06] <hydester> n2diy: free -m
[20:07] <hydester> oh, what
[20:08] <n2diy> hydester, that tells me how much is being used, which I know, I'm curious what is using it.
[20:13] <nishttal2> i installed gnome-terminal.. where would be the launcher for that ?
[20:14] <knome> nishttal2, most probably under 'accessories'
[20:14] <astraljava> Terminals are always fun to chase around the menu structures.
[20:14] <nishttal2> knome nope i dont see it
[20:14] <astraljava> In KDE that'd probably be in System > 'something', I forget which.
[20:14] <knome> nishttal2, i'm pretty sure that's where it should appear
[20:15] <nishttal2> knome, its not there.. i can launch one from terminal emulator
[20:16] <foobArrr>  it's not there for me either
[20:17] <knome> maybe it's showonlyin=GNOME :P
[20:18] <rolesp> I have a problem with this machine under 12.04, at boot needs to press scape and from the grub menu kernel recovery option
[20:18] <rolesp> if not I have only a black screen
[20:20] <rolesp> after that i works ok, but if rebott have to do the same
[20:20] <nishttal2> knome, is it possible to change the "Open terminal here" command in right click to open gnome-terminal?
[20:21] <knome> nishttal2, yeah, edit -> configure custom actions
[20:21] <knome> i'm not sure where you specifically need gnome-terminal though
[20:21] <nishttal2> edit?
[20:21] <knome> nishttal2, edit from a thunar window
[20:21] <knome> but looks like the launcher is just exo
[20:22] <knome> so changing the default terminal emulator should work
[20:22] <foobArrr> how do I change the keyboard layout system-wide?
[20:22] <nishttal2> ok you lost me :(
[20:22] <knome> nishttal2, settings manager -> preferred applications -> tab utilities
[20:22] <knome> nishttal2, change the terminal emulator in that dialog, and the right-click menu should follow what you set there
[20:23] <nishttal2> knome.. trying now
[20:24] <foobArrr> nevermind, got it
[20:25] <nishttal2> knome, worked .. thanks :)
[20:25] <knome> np
[20:29] <nishttal2> how do i connect to a FTP server? in Ubuntu there was a menu item to do that
[20:30] <hydester> nishttal2: the command is called "ftp"
[20:31] <rolesp> How i can save my actual video configuration?
[20:31] <hydester> nishttal2: but you can just go to "Ubuntu Software Center" and search for ftp for a gui client
[20:32] <hydester> nishttal2: filezilla has a lot of stars
[20:37] <rolesp> Where to find the jockey drivers?
[20:41] <liznevada> hai guise
[20:42] <rolesp> how to configure an ATI video card using jockey?
[20:51] <liznevada> i have a 60GB partition for install xubuntu and i want to separate /home,  which is the minimum for / partition?
[20:51] <liznevada> how many GB?
[20:51] <knome> i've used 5.6GB on my /
[20:52] <nishttal2> is there a way to mount FTP folders ?
[20:52] <knome> nishttal2, try gigolo
[20:52] <nishttal2> oh ok
[20:53] <knome> rolesp, you can't configure drivers with jockey, only install
[20:56] <nishttal2> knome, i am able to connect but its showing me the FTP directories in chrome..
[20:57] <knome> nishttal2, afaik ftp:// links should work in thunar after that
[20:57] <knome> but i haven't used gigolo myself
[20:57] <rolesp> knome, ok, then i need to instal the ati propietary drivers?
[20:58] <knome> rolesp, what is your problem? what do you want to achieve?
[20:58] <liznevada> cuz, man i find this laptop in a dumpster, and old Vaio VGN, and it had win xp but the was SLOW as *ell, i reinstall and it continue to behave slow.
[20:58] <knome> liznevada, it depends much how many apps you want to install, and how sure you want to be that the space doesn't run out.
[20:58] <liznevada> i just try xubuntu and it literally fly
[20:59] <liznevada> its for my little sister
[20:59] <knome> something like 8GB is probably really safe
[20:59] <liznevada> i guess 10GB its ok right?
[21:00] <knome> yeah, that shouldn't be even close
[21:00] <nishttal2> knome, thunar is the nautilus for xubuntu?
[21:00] <knome> nishttal2, yes, the "file manager", as some of us call it
[21:00] <rolesp> I have a problem with this machine under 12.04, at boot needs to press scape and from the grub menu kernel recovery option
[21:00] <knome> rolesp, does it show any error?
[21:00] <nishttal2> I am not seeing the FTP folder i just connected to in gigolo
[21:01] <nishttal2> oh.. i selected toolbar style selector and am good
[21:01] <nishttal2> thanks
[21:02] <knome> np
[21:02] <liznevada> i dont get why somebody would trash a working laptop
[21:03] <rolesp> not after all it shows whit some options one is proced to normal boot
[21:03] <knome> rolesp, is it a laptop?
[21:03] <rolesp> and then it works ok
[21:04] <rolesp> but if I restart have to do the same
[21:04] <rolesp> not is a desktop 775 2.6 proc 512 ram
[21:16] <rolesp> knome, i just installed the ati driver from the software center, but it doesn show under other controllers
[21:17] <rolesp> maybe i need to reboot
[21:21] <rolesp> bbl
[21:28] <pooltable> help how do i get the xfce to re set my chazilla window is lock and show the desk top does not work?
[21:34] <Myrtti> pleia2: I don't think the problem is whether it's PAE kernel or not, it's if it's 486 or 586
[21:34] <Myrtti> but I have no idea about kernels or all this so I have no idea
[21:35] <knome> Myrtti, see -ops-team
[21:35] <pleia2> Myrtti: ah, ok
[21:55] <pooltable> how to re set up xfce?
[21:56] <knome> pooltable, can you be more specific?
[22:01] <pooltable> ok well on click on show desk top it does not work
[22:01] <pooltable> i can not see the firefox x or resize box
[22:01] <knome> pooltable, what click on desktop? what does not work?
[22:01] <pooltable> i can not see the top of the console
[22:02] <knome> pooltable, press alt+f2 and run 'xfwm'
[22:02] <knome> pooltable, sorry, 'xfwm4' (without the quotes)
[22:02] <pooltable> knome
[22:02] <pooltable> that does not work
[22:03] <knome> xfwm4 or xfwm ?
[22:03] <knome> did you try running compiz?
[22:03] <knome> did you enable the root account?
[22:03] <pooltable> alt f2
[22:04] <pooltable> how do i do compiz?
[22:04] <knome> no, don't, i was just asking if you did
[22:04] <pooltable> \no
[22:04] <knome> do you have a terminal window opwn?
[22:04] <pooltable> yes but i do not see the top of it
[22:04] <pooltable> clr
[22:05] <pooltable> clr
[22:05] <knome> okay, in the terminal window type 'xfwm4 &' (without the quotes, and press enter/return
[22:05] <pooltable> i try to tpye xfwm4&
[22:05] <knome> note that there is a space before the &-sign
[22:06] <pooltable> no it not working right what i type i only type here
[22:06] <pooltable> hi
[22:07] <knome> what is not working?
[22:07] <pooltable> ok i try to click on console but when i type it type here  not there
[22:08] <knome> can you access the applications menu?
[22:08] <pooltable> yes
[22:09] <knome> can you see a menu entry that says "Run Program..." ?
[22:09] <pooltable> yes
[22:10] <knome> click that, and type 'xfwm4' in the text area (without the quotes again), and click run
[22:10] <pooltable> xfce4-settings-manager
[22:11] <knome> ?
[22:11] <pooltable> it will not let me backspace so just run that ?
[22:12] <knome> no, you need to run xfwm4
[22:13] <knome> if you can select all the text with the mouse, do that, and start typing the new command
[22:14] <pooltable> it does not let me type in that box ?
[22:14] <pooltable> ok copy and paset now what
[22:14] <knome> press run
[22:14] <pooltable> i got the setting up
[22:15] <knome> what setting?
[22:16] <pooltable> ok now it is not doing a think ?
[22:16] <pooltable> thing
[22:17] <knome> did you run 'xfwm4' ?
[22:17] <pooltable> yes
[22:17] <knome> if that didn't work, try running 'xfwm4 --replace' (again without quotes)
[22:17] <pooltable> what does it do ?
[22:18] <knome> it should restart xfwm, and that should re-enable your window borders
[22:18] <pooltable> ok sorry how do i know if it work ?
[22:18] <pooltable> and thanks for all the help
[22:18] <knome> if it works, window borders will appear immediately
[22:18] <knome> if not, try the other command i gave you
[22:19] <pooltable> ok thanks what cause it that ?
[22:20] <knome> did it work?
[22:20] <pooltable> yes
[22:20] <knome> ok, good
[22:20] <knome> i do not know what caused the error
[22:20] <pooltable> ok
[22:21] <pooltable> i will wright a text file for next time
[22:21] <pooltable> also how to change the desk top?
[22:22] <manitou> just testing xubuntu on aspire S3 , and i can say it works well
[22:22] <knome> what do you mean with "change the desktop" ?
[22:22] <knome> manitou, good to hear
[22:22] <pooltable> yes
[22:25] <pooltable> hellow?
[22:25] <knome> pooltable, please re-read the question
[22:26] <pooltable> knome change the desktop yes
[22:26] <knome> pooltable, re-read
[22:26] <pooltable> knome like to change the desktop image please?
[22:27] <Myrtti> the background?
[22:27] <Myrtti> "wallpaper"?
[22:27] <pooltable> myrtti yes
[22:27] <pooltable> myrtti sorry what the difference?
[22:27] <Myrtti> pooltable: between background and wallpaper? nothing.
[22:28] <pooltable> myrtti ok then how please?
[22:28] <Myrtti> but "change the desktop" can mean anything between changing the wallpaper, changing virtual workspaces and changing desktop environments
[22:28] <Myrtti> which is why knome asked for a clarification
[22:30] <pooltable> myrtti change the image backround
[22:30] <Myrtti> what have you tried so far?
[22:32] <pooltable> myrtti ok well i go to desktop settings and the plus button the image i what is there but it is not working right now?
[22:33] <pooltable> also how get the console to show up right it is all black?
[22:38] <pooltable> ok the console is all black i do not see the system name at all how to fix?
[22:39] <knome> pooltable, right-click -> preferences -> colors -> set background color to something else than black
[22:43] <Barridus> i periodically get a "login keyring didn't unlock" prompt asking for my login password, how do i get rid of this forever?
[22:43] <pooltable> knome thanks got the console fix sill trying to get the desktop image to change
[22:44] <knome> pooltable, if you have the image on your hard drive, navigate to the folder with thunar (the file manager), right-click and press "set as wallpaper"
[22:46] <pooltable> knome got it to work thanks
[22:46] <pooltable> for all the help
[22:46] <knome> no problem
[22:59]  * Barridus is listening to: Mike Birbiglia – I'm a Bear, Etc. [Sleepwalk With Me - Live]; [01:40/06:19]
[22:59] <Barridus> opps, sorry
[23:37] <lapsusbrutus> Anyone used kioskmode in xfce? kioskrc config on [xfce4-panel] is: CustomizePanel=NONE,   Still anybody can remove things on panels, and even panels.  Would this be a bug, or me=lolfail?
[23:48] <liznevada> dude, the Software Center of Xubuntu make me jelly for using Fedora
[23:56] <P-Chan> Olá amiguinhos do bem... como adciono aquele aplicativo que formata pen-drive com o botão direito?
[23:57] <lapsusbrutus> P-Chan: fdisk and mkfs.vfat is nice
[23:58] <P-Chan> lapsusbrutus: sorry. this is a english chat
[23:58] <P-Chan> lapsusbrutus: I use Gparted but in UBUNTU version has a tool format pen drive
[23:59] <lapsusbrutus> P-Chan: you have used kiosk mode in xfce? :)


[15:58] <intellectronica> me
[16:00] <Ursinha> haha
[16:00] <jtv> hi Ursinha
[16:00] <intellectronica> hihi
[16:00] <jtv> hi intellectronica
[16:00] <Ursinha> #startmeeting
[16:00] <Ursinha> Welcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.
[16:00] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] Roll Call
[16:00] <Ursinha> Not on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00.   Presumably I'll get a T-shirt)
[16:01] <Ursinha> matsubara, hi
[16:01] <Ursinha> lol
[16:01] <Ursinha> bigjools, hi
[16:01] <bigjools> me, still on TL call
[16:01] <Ursinha> okay, nothing to soyuz today
[16:02] <Ursinha> from oops land
[16:02] <Ursinha> stub, hi
[16:02] <matsubara> me
[16:02] <stub> me
[16:02] <Ursinha> matsubara, welcome back
[16:02] <matsubara> thanks Ursinha
[16:02] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] Agenda
[16:02] <Ursinha>  * Actions from last meeting
[16:02] <Ursinha>  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
[16:02] <Ursinha>  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[16:02] <Ursinha>  * DBA report (stub)
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agenda
[16:02] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * matsubara to chase rockstar about failure on updatebranches script
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * stub to get RC for branch that fixes bug 403283
[16:02] <Ursinha>         * landed in r8319
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * ursinha do file bug for OOPS-1300XMLP5
[16:02] <Ursinha>         * filed https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bug/403606
[16:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Actions from last meeting
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * Ursinha to keep one eye on UnicodeDecodeErrors, and will report back next meeting
[16:02] <Ursinha>         * we're having less errors, Salgado will try to fix bug 61171
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * mars to take a look at bug 354593
[16:02] <Ursinha>     * matsubara to chase salgado about people pruning script
[16:03] <jtv> Ursinha: We're having "fewer" errors :-P
[16:03] <stub> The person pruner is running on production. It will take 3 or 4 weeks to complete.
[16:03] <matsubara> Ursinha, I haven't had time to do that this week as I was on vacation
[16:03] <Ursinha> thanks jtv :P
[16:03] <Ursinha> matsubara, okay
[16:04] <matsubara> please, re-add to the list and I'll chase
[16:04] <Ursinha> [action] matsubara to chase rockstar about failure on updatebranches script
[16:04] <mars> stub, wow
[16:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to chase rockstar about failure on updatebranches script
[16:04] <matsubara> Ursinha, the other one about the pruning script too
[16:05] <Ursinha> [action] matsubara to chase salgado about people pruning script
[16:05] <MootBot> ACTION received:  matsubara to chase salgado about people pruning script
[16:05] <stub> Chase what? it is running.
[16:05] <Ursinha> but what stub said?
[16:05] <Ursinha> yes, yes
[16:05] <rockstar> Yes, what stub said.
[16:05] <Ursinha> matsubara, ^
[16:05] <salgado> stub, don't we need to pass --experimental to it?
[16:06] <stub> It is - I filed an rt and chased it through with spm.
[16:06] <stub> And monitoring too
[16:06] <matsubara> ok, so that's sorted then :-)
[16:06] <Ursinha> [action] remove last matsubara item as stub already reported it's ok]
[16:06] <MootBot> ACTION received:  remove last matsubara item as stub already reported it's ok]
[16:06] <matsubara> :-)
[16:06] <matsubara> thanks Ursinha
[16:06] <Ursinha> matsubara, np :)
[16:06] <Ursinha> mars, did you have the time to look at bug 354593?
[16:08]  * Ursinha wonders if mars is on the TL call as well
[16:08] <mars> nope
[16:08] <rockstar> Why is there a TL call this early?
[16:08] <Ursinha> *whew*
[16:08] <mars> I did not have a chance to address it
[16:08] <Ursinha> oops section is all foundations today
[16:08] <rockstar> I doubt my TL is on that TL call...
[16:08] <bigjools> he's not
[16:09] <Ursinha> well, mars, can you do that then, please? :)
[16:09] <mars> stub, would you be able to take the SSO bug?  Or find someone who has time to address it?
[16:09] <stub> The branding one?
[16:09] <Ursinha> stub, yes sir
[16:10] <mars> yes
[16:10] <Ursinha> stub, bug 354593
[16:10] <stub> I can try. I haven't done UI stuff for a long time though so it will be slow.
[16:11] <Ursinha> mars, ^
[16:11] <mars> Ursinha, ?
[16:12] <mars> stub, I can give you a hand with it
[16:12] <Ursinha> okay then
[16:13] <Ursinha> [action] stub to give a try on bug 354593 with mars help if needed
[16:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  stub to give a try on bug 354593 with mars help if needed
[16:13] <Ursinha> moving on
[16:13] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
[16:13] <Ursinha> mars, I have two bugs and one oops for foundations
[16:13] <Ursinha> mars, can you triage bug 403606, and take a look at it, if possible?
[16:13] <Ursinha> mars, also, OOPS-1307J16 shows an AssertionError without any description
[16:13] <Ursinha> and finally
[16:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts
[16:13] <Ursinha> mars, do you know if someone could have some time to fix bug 310818? we had some weird timeouts today and the oops report was borked
[16:14] <mars> Ursinha, I'll have to ask the team
[16:14] <Ursinha> mars, about what exactly? :)
[16:15] <Ursinha> btw, thanks for helping with the Unicode issues debugging last week, was very useful
[16:16] <mars> Ursinha, to see who on foundations has time to address the issue - I would guess gary or stub, but I don't know how heavily committed they are at the moment
[16:17] <Ursinha> mars, the bug 310818?
[16:17] <stub> I was going to look at it but someone designated me victim for the SSO exception stuff ;)
[16:17] <Ursinha> haha
[16:17] <gary_poster> Heh, It feels like I have a backlog to kingdom come, and I keep getting more. :-)  But if this is urgent, then it's urgent
[16:17] <stub> I can probably do both - what should be done first Ursinha?
[16:17] <Ursinha> stub, the oops one, I'd suggest
[16:18] <Ursinha> as I said earlier we had some weird timeouts and it would be nice to be able to debug them if they happen again
[16:19] <Ursinha> [action] stub to fix bug 310818
[16:19] <mars> Ursinha, sorry, I was reading the Expat error one.  That sounded like something gary would be able to address, since it starts in the heart of Zope, and has to do with exception bubbling through the architecture
[16:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  stub to fix bug 310818
[16:19] <Ursinha> mars, right. gary_poster, want to fix that? :)
[16:20] <mars> gary_poster, ^ does that make sense?
[16:20] <gary_poster> looking
[16:21] <mars> Ursinha, I'll look at OOPS-1307J16
[16:21] <Ursinha> [action] mars to take a look at OOPS-1307J16
[16:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mars to take a look at OOPS-1307J16
[16:21] <Ursinha> thanks mars
[16:21] <Ursinha> mars, I'd open a bug but had no clue about what happened
[16:22] <gary_poster> Ursinha, not precisely clear on the goal but we can talk later.  I'm guessing this is low priority.  I'll take it.
[16:22] <gary_poster> (bug 403606)
[16:23] <Ursinha> thanks gary_poster
[16:23] <Ursinha> gary_poster, the point is that it fills the oops reports with those
[16:23] <Ursinha> it would be great to get rid of them
[16:23] <gary_poster> and they just mean that somebody is sending us bad XMLRPC, afaict, and we don't want to care?
[16:23] <mars> gary_poster, it would be nice if the ExpatError was, say, turned into a 400 HTTP status code
[16:24] <mars> right
[16:24] <Ursinha> creating a section on the summary or moving them to dev/null was told to be not a good idea (I agree)
[16:25] <gary_poster> ack, ok.
[16:25] <Ursinha> gary_poster, do you think it's to painful to fix?
[16:26] <Ursinha> *too
[16:26] <Ursinha> [action] Ursinha to learn to type
[16:26] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Ursinha to learn to type
[16:26] <gary_poster> Ursinha: It will involve changing zope publication machinery.  Doing so will mean either hacking our zope tree, which we are really trying not to do; or migrating to a newer version of the publication machinery, which should wait on the Zope-buildbot work that I keep not finishing, and then will be a migration exercise, possibly accompanied with a negotiate-with-upstream exercise.
[16:26] <gary_poster> lol
[16:27] <gary_poster> so...
[16:27] <gary_poster> the only quick and easy fix is the hack
[16:27] <Ursinha> I see.....
[16:27] <gary_poster> that I would be hoping to eliminate RSN
[16:27] <gary_poster> when I move all the zope stuff to eggs
[16:28] <Ursinha> gary_poster, so, a very temporary hack?
[16:28] <gary_poster> so I'm happy to have that be a bug, but I'd like it to be a back-burner bug, myself
[16:28] <gary_poster> right
[16:28] <gary_poster> I certainly understand the pain though :-(
[16:28] <mars> Ursinha, sound good?  We can review the solution outside the meeting
[16:28] <gary_poster> or have a hint of it at least
[16:28] <Ursinha> mars, sure
[16:29] <mars> thanks gary_poster
[16:29] <Ursinha> [action] Discuss the solution proposed by gary_poster after the meeting, about ExpatErrors and bug 403606
[16:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Discuss the solution proposed by gary_poster after the meeting, about ExpatErrors and bug 403606
[16:29] <Ursinha> thanks mars and gary_poster
[16:29] <Ursinha> well
[16:29] <gary_poster> thanks mars and Ursinha  :-)
[16:29] <Ursinha> :)
[16:29] <Ursinha> we're not having more InterfaceErrors (thanks salgado), but we're still having OperationalErrors (OOPS-1306J75, OOPS-1306J96) and DisconnectionErrors (OOPS-1306I440, OOPS-1306J343)
[16:29] <Ursinha> what can we do about it?
[16:30] <Ursinha> I think that's yours too mars
[16:30] <mars> Ursinha, I'll need to look at them
[16:30] <mars> (obviously :)
[16:30] <Ursinha> :)
[16:30] <Ursinha> stub, do you have any clues?
[16:31] <mars> stub, that looks like something for you - Storm barfing while talking over the internal network?
[16:31] <stub> gary_poster: You could probably switch of the oops in errorlog.py - we already skip certain well defined exceptions entirely.
[16:32] <gary_poster> stub: oh, ok.  not familiar with that.  sounds good on the face of it.
[16:32] <mars> stub, gary_poster, well, that's why I suggested wrapping the ExpatError in a 400 status - it's the nice HTTP thing to do, since the client is in the wrong, not us.
[16:32] <stub> Ursinha: All 'due to administrator command' are when the server killed the connection, usually because it was sitting idle too long.
[16:33] <gary_poster> mars, can't do that without getting into the publication machinery.  stub's approach is not as elegant as what you suggest, but much more doable in the short term.
[16:33] <mars> stub, so too much lag between opening the app server request and actually getting to issue commands?
[16:33] <gary_poster> hm, unless there's an indirection lurking around...checking...
[16:33] <mars> gary_poster, ok
[16:34] <stub> mars: For an appserver request, we kill anything that doesn't complete in 2 minutes. For scripts, we kill anything that is idle-in-transaction for 90 minutes (or something like that).
[16:35] <stub> mars: So a massive slowdown or pause anytime after the db transaction starts
[16:35] <mars> stub, ok, would you be able to do an analysis, or help me do one, after the meeting?
[16:35] <mars> to find what is taking so long to execute
[16:36] <stub> I already looked at this one - I have no idea why that query would stop (the OOPS i'm looking at Ursinha pointed me at earlier)
[16:36] <mars> you know what the problem is, but I would have to troll the OOPSes to find the root cause
[16:36] <Ursinha> stub, did I?
[16:36] <stub> A number of requests timed out all at exactly the same time. I doubt we can reproduce it, and there doesn't seem enough information to diagnose it.
[16:37] <Ursinha> stub, that was another oops, I guess
[16:37] <stub> Yup. But the one I'm looking at is select replication_lag() again - this time it took so long it got terminated by the reaper.
[16:37] <Ursinha> stub, oh, I see
[16:38] <Ursinha> so they are related
[16:38] <Ursinha> stub, because of having not enough data in that oops you can't diagnose the Errors?
[16:39] <Ursinha> *Errors
[16:40] <Ursinha> mars, stub, we're running out of time, can we discuss that on -dev after the meeting?
[16:40] <mars> Ursinha, sure
[16:40] <Ursinha> allright
[16:40] <Ursinha> [action] mars and stub to discuss the Disconnection and OperationalErrors after the meeting
[16:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mars and stub to discuss the Disconnection and OperationalErrors after the meeting
[16:41] <Ursinha> critical bugs: we have bug 403283, that is in progress as commented on it
[16:41] <Ursinha> moving on!
[16:41] <Ursinha> thanks a lot guys
[16:41] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/herb/spm)
[16:41] <herb> 2009-07-28 - Rolled critical fixes to the app servers and scripts server.
[16:41] <herb> We've had some issues with codebrowse in the last week where the process dies but doesn't leave a core file. It's also not leaving anything interesting in the logs. We haven't filed a bug yet, but expect one soon. Any help in determining the best way to debug the issue would be helpful.
[16:41] <herb> mthaddon has a 2nd librarian instance up and running. We're preparing to load balance between them. mthaddon updated bug #403283 with some questions and it appears stub has responded to them.
[16:41] <herb> There aren't any pending queries or cherry pick requests.
[16:41] <herb> That's it for the LOSAs unless there are questions.
[16:42] <Ursinha> anything for herb?
[16:42] <Ursinha> thanks herb!
[16:42] <Ursinha> moving on
[16:43] <Ursinha> [TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)
[16:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  * DBA report (stub)
[16:43] <herb> thanks Ursinha
[16:43] <stub> I generated a new database baseline from the production database and landed it. We do this occasionally to ensure that the version of the db we are developing on matches what is actually running on production (patches made to the live system not backported to the trunk or stuffups can cause drift).
[16:43] <stub> If you have an approved but unlanded database patch you will need a new database patch number from me.
[16:44] <Ursinha> stub, oot?
[16:44] <Ursinha> :)
[16:44] <stub> oot
[16:44] <Ursinha> sweet
[16:44] <Ursinha> anyone wants to say something?
[16:45] <Ursinha> thanks stub :)
[16:45] <Ursinha> I have something to say to all contacts
[16:45] <Ursinha> we want to close the 2.2.7 milestone, so, if you have pending bugs or blueprints, please, retarget of fix release them
[16:46] <Ursinha> intellectronica, I saw that bugs team has a lot (really) of not assigned bugs targeted to 2.2.7
[16:46] <intellectronica> Ursinha: sure, will make sure we sort them out now
[16:46] <Ursinha> thanks a lot intellectronica
[16:46] <Ursinha> and all guys
[16:46] <Ursinha> you rock
[16:47] <Ursinha> Thank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.
[16:47] <Ursinha> #endmeeting
[16:47] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:47.
[16:47] <intellectronica> Ursinha: you rock too
[16:47] <herb> thanks everyone
[16:47] <gary_poster> (mars, re bug 403606: the only hook I see is the big honking one that specifies what request class to use.  we could do that probably.  I wish it could go in the standard implementation though, since returning a 400, as you suggest, is good reasonable behavior.  I suspect stub's error squelching solution will be an easier quick hack.)
[16:47] <Ursinha> thanks herb
[16:47] <Ursinha> ahh.. I love my job


[18:00] <elkybirthday> ooher, I get to attend one of these meetings
[18:01] <Pici> Yay.  Meetings.
[18:01] <topyli> elkybirthday: ooh is that nick current? congratulations :)
[18:01] <Pici> elkybirthday: Happy bday!
[18:01] <elkybirthday> :D
[18:01]  * Seeker` provides cake
[18:01] <elkybirthday> depends which timezone you ask, but the one my body is in, it is indeed current
[18:02] <elkybirthday> om nom nom
[18:04] <topyli> ok, least resistant chairing
[18:05] <topyli> #startmeeting
[18:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:05. The chair is topyli.
[18:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:05] <Pici> Although my -ot support policy item is first on the list, I propose defering it until some of the more pressing issues are attended do.
[18:05] <Pici> s/do/to/
[18:05] <Pici> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[18:05] <topyli> ok Pici, good idea
[18:05] <nhandler> o/
[18:05] <bilalakhtar> Is this the IRCC meeting?
[18:05] <nhandler> Yes bilalakhtar
[18:05] <topyli> bilalakhtar: yes
[18:06] <topyli> [TOPIC] Failure to document blanket ban policy
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Failure to document blanket ban policy
[18:06] <topyli> ikonia: you around?
[18:06] <topyli> let's group this and the next one
[18:06] <ikonia> I am
[18:06] <ikonia> sounds reasonable
[18:06] <ikonia> they are the same thing
[18:06] <ikonia> I just wanted to be clear there are two actions here
[18:06] <Pici> Indeed.
[18:07] <ikonia> topyli: do you want me to just talk, or do you want to start ?
[18:07] <Pici> ikonia: Do you want to summarize for those present who may not be familiar with the issue?
[18:07] <ikonia> certainly
[18:08] <ikonia> There is an "appeals" process for users who are banned/miss-treated from the Ubuntu IRC name space, I have raised the issue that there needs to be the reverse of this for long term trouble users. This was agreed should happen, it has not been documented, or implemented on the requested trouble users
[18:09] <ikonia> the reverse should include a blanket ban from the ubuntu IRC council controlled ubuntu name sapce
[18:09] <ikonia> space
[18:09] <ikonia> (sorry should have been clear about that, hence blanket ban policy)
[18:09] <topyli> this is true, we are in talks with staff but we are/i am slow
[18:09] <nhandler> ikonia: We are currently working with freenode staff to find a way to effectively implement and enforce this
[18:10] <ikonia> nhandler: I thought it was as simple as putting a ban in all the channels controlled ?
[18:10] <Seeker`> ikonia: how long ago did you raise the issue?
[18:10] <elkybirthday> can we not do it manually until then?
[18:10] <Pici> ikonia: We control a lot of channels.
[18:10] <nhandler> ikonia: Not really, since IP addresses change (and they use proxies)
[18:10] <ikonia> Seeker`: approx 6 months ago but I can't be exact
[18:10] <topyli> it is an old issue yes
[18:10] <ikonia> nhandler: the main ones in the examples I raised do not change
[18:11] <tsimpson> it's also difficult to enforce if we do it manually, we can't watch each join in all the channels, so it's possible they'd still slip in
[18:11] <ikonia> ok - so lets move from the implementation for a while, where is the documetned process and critera that was discussed about
[18:11] <Seeker`> so either we implement a complete ban or none at all?
[18:11] <Seeker`> thats stupid
[18:11] <elkybirthday> I'd like to point out that in the mean time, ikonia is getting targetted for harrassment from one of the individuals, in a manner that * is* disrupting various channels
[18:11] <nhandler> ikonia: That will partially depend on what freenode staff end up deciding wrt this issue
[18:12] <Pici> Would it be amenable to allow operators to manually place the bans if the target joined a channel, but before they acted in a manner that would get them banned in normal circumstances.
[18:12] <ikonia> nhandler: why are freenode staff controlling the critera for the process ?
[18:12] <Pici> Like 'ban on sight'?
[18:12] <elkybirthday> the individual is feeling enabled by the council's lack of action or response or anything public really
[18:12] <ikonia> Pici: totally
[18:12] <ikonia> Pici: the point is to document and recognise that user is not allowed in the ubuntu name space
[18:12] <ikonia> Pici: how we act to that is seconady
[18:12] <ikonia> secondary
[18:12] <nhandler> ikonia: Because it is ugly setting bans in all #ubuntu-* channels and enforcing them, and we are trying to find a better way to handle that
[18:13] <ikonia> nhandler: ok, that doesn't change the processof applying for the ban, or the critera
[18:13] <elkybirthday> nhandler, can we not deal with the social side in the interim at least?
[18:13] <ikonia> why has that not been documented ?
[18:13] <Pici> Perhaps we should action and document that while we find a way to work with freenode.
[18:13] <ikonia> Pici: I thought that action had already been taken
[18:13] <ikonia> the reverse of the appeals process, and the critera must be met before applying
[18:13] <Pici> ikonia: I don't see it documented.
[18:13] <ikonia> it's not
[18:14] <ikonia> it was an action the council agreed to do
[18:14] <topyli> we agreed on it, but we never documented it
[18:14] <Seeker`> why not?
[18:14] <ikonia> the documenting was part of the agreement
[18:14] <topyli> yes
[18:15] <Seeker`> This is starting to verge on the next topic too
[18:15] <elkybirthday> yeah
[18:15]  * nhandler notes that there is nothing stopping people not on the council from helping with some of these tasks
[18:15] <ikonia> nhandler: actually there is
[18:15] <ikonia> nhandler: I offered to do it, but was told it was not acceptable as the council had to set the critera
[18:15] <Pici> Hm.
[18:16] <elkybirthday> sure there is. we can't decree non grata status on someone on behalf of the council. that's what's being requested. we cannot do that. only ircc can do that
[18:16] <nhandler> ikonia: No. Anyone in the community is capable of proposing a draft for the council to approve
[18:16] <tsimpson> as long as the council approves it, I see no issue
[18:16] <ikonia> nhandler: that was a different discussion I had then
[18:16] <ikonia> nhandler: I was told it was not appropriate for me to do it as the council had to set the policy, and I can't do that
[18:16] <Pici> But it is our fault for not correcting that information that you were provided with.
[18:16] <Seeker`> ultimately, someone on the council will have to do something with any documents generated, and that seems to be the part that is failing
[18:17] <nhandler> ikonia: Yeah, we'll have to ultimately ACK the content of such a document, but who actually writes it up is irrelevant imo
[18:17] <Pici> I'm not sure when that happened, but we have had a few documents drafted by our operators in the past that we're working to bring into policy.
[18:17] <elkybirthday> I rather suspect that ikonia basically wrote the policy in his emails
[18:18] <topyli> it could be transferred to wiki and we could accept it rather easily
[18:18] <Seeker`> do it then?
[18:18] <Pici> Would you like me to do that?
[18:18] <ikonia> elkybirthday: it was spelt out quite clear in the emails
[18:19] <elkybirthday> ikonia, im aware of what your emails are like :)
[18:19] <nhandler> Pici: If you are up for it, I doubt there will be any objections
[18:19] <topyli> Pici: yes, with ikonia's help
[18:19] <ikonia> just tell me what you need
[18:20] <ikonia> I've pushed this multiple times on email and either got no response or being told "it's been worked on"
[18:20] <Pici> [action] Pici to document ikonia's namespace ban proposal.
[18:20] <ikonia> the correct reponse is "can you help with $X" if you need help/input
[18:20] <Pici> Er, or does the chair need to do that?
[18:20] <topyli> [ACTION] Pici to document ikonia's namespace ban proposal.
[18:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Pici to document ikonia's namespace ban proposal.
[18:20] <Pici> topyli: thanjs.
[18:20] <topyli> apparently
[18:20] <elkybirthday> Pici, yeah, otherwise anyone can set actions
[18:20] <Pici> ikonia: Let me read over the email you sent and I'll let you know what else I need.
[18:21] <topyli> [TOPIC] Failure to respond / follow up on pending actions
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Failure to respond / follow up on pending actions
[18:21] <ikonia> Pici: just shout/mail
[18:21] <topyli> is this the same issue or another one? :)
[18:21] <Pici> What do you want us to say about this?
[18:21] <ikonia> do you want an overview again ?
[18:21] <Pici> I don't think we need an overview, unless someone else thinks we do.
[18:21] <Seeker`> isn't this one kinda obvious?
[18:21] <nhandler> I think the big issue is that we are simply not delegating enough
[18:22] <nhandler> We are trying to handle too many things at once, and we are only 5 people
[18:22] <ikonia> I personally have raised multiple issues with the IRC council, I'm also aware of other operators doing the same, the lack of response or time to implimenting these requests is beyond crazy
[18:22] <Seeker`> nhandler: It actually just seems like the council isn't do anything they say they will
[18:22] <ikonia> nhandler: what is the blocker ?
[18:22] <ikonia> nhandler: responding to an email to at least acknowledge it's been read isn't a massive task, unless you ar getting 100+ requests per week
[18:22] <Pici> I think we're all to blame.
[18:23] <Pici> Er, I mean the IRCC members.
[18:23] <elkybirthday> does the ircc need to be expanded?
[18:23] <Seeker`> just how much work does the ircc have each week that 5 people can't get it done?
[18:23] <nhandler> elkybirthday: Well, part of the issue is that due to real life issues, we only had a partial council for a period of time
[18:23] <topyli> i don't think the council needs to be bigger, we've been a bit unfortunate lately
[18:24] <ikonia> topyli: define latley for perspective please
[18:24] <topyli> a few months or so
[18:24] <topyli> everybody's back now though
[18:24] <elkybirthday> nhandler, that should have been said before now so it could be fixed
[18:24] <ikonia> k
[18:24] <ikonia> ok
[18:24] <Pici> I could come up with excuses, but I'd rather just have us get back on the horse and get to resolving everyone's problems.
[18:24] <ikonia> Pici: agreed
[18:24] <topyli> aye
[18:25] <Seeker`> surely if that is **that** much work to do and someone isn't going to be around for a while, replace them?
[18:25] <ikonia> Pici: people have things to deal with, no question, but an email to explain why it's not happenening or just a response to say, we got it, thanks, is all that is needed
[18:26] <nhandler> What we should probably do is go through what remaining actions we have and try and give a few of them to members of the OP team.
[18:26] <Pici> If its appropriate of course.
[18:26] <topyli> indeed, we should at least reply always. we (at least i) should also review our task list more often
[18:26] <ikonia> council, that last issue was more a heads up/ shake up, nothing needs to happen beyond as pici said, getting back on the hourse
[18:27] <ikonia> horse
[18:27] <topyli> ikonia: the overviews?
[18:27] <Pici> ikonia: We do have our team reports, but as I discussed at our IRC session at UDS, we will be working to provide more detail in them.
[18:27] <ikonia> topyli: the failure to respond / follow up on pending items
[18:27] <Pici> Oh
[18:28] <Pici> Sorry, I thought you were talking about the next items.
[18:28] <ikonia> I'll summarise the next two points quikely as they are the same
[18:28] <topyli> ok
[18:28] <topyli> let me open it
[18:28] <elkybirthday> one thing i tried to get set up whilst I was n the ircc is a request tracker. because we're not email people and we already work on an issue-based workflow with the bantracker
[18:28] <topyli> [topic] high level council overviews
[18:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  high level council overviews
[18:28] <ikonia> I hear a massive amount of talk about great things happening, yet based on the points I raised earlier, I see none of it. I don't see the council doing anything activly for the community or the ops team beyond creating red tape
[18:29] <Pici> ikonia: We do have our team reports, but as I discussed at our IRC session at UDS, we will be working to provide more detail in them.
[18:29] <ikonia> if you are doing something that benifits either of the groups mentioned, I'd like to hear about it
[18:29] <topyli> elkybirthday: i would love to have bugs on launchpad
[18:29] <Seeker`> the IRCC team reports aren't linked from the IRCC wiki page, afaics
[18:29] <Pici> Seeker`: They should be...
[18:29] <ikonia> Pici: up until now, I see nothing, so going forward reports are great, but I want to know what's happened in the year this council has been together
[18:29] <ikonia> I see notyhing
[18:29] <nhandler> Seeker`: They are linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[18:29] <tsimpson> Seeker`: only from the meeting agenda page
[18:29] <ikonia> I see nothing
[18:30] <elkybirthday> topyli, im not sure LP bugs is a suitible place, to be honest. the IS team in canonical don't use it, they have an rt instance
[18:30] <nhandler> We have done stuff. For instance, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Membership is the most recent thing we have been up to (currently a draft)
[18:30] <ikonia> nhandler: a draft document, anything else ?
[18:30] <Pici> I've brought this up a few times, but we're going to be making more of an effort to document our day-to-day stuff.
[18:30] <nhandler> ikonia: It is waiting on CC approval
[18:30] <ikonia> nhandler: anything else/
[18:30] <Seeker`> where can the team reports be found?
[18:30] <Seeker`> oh, there
[18:31] <nhandler> Seeker`: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRCCouncil/TeamReport
[18:31] <ikonia> I'm just looking for one thing the council has done in a year
[18:31] <ikonia> it shouldn't be that hard
[18:31] <ikonia> or whats the big achievement, something you feel is a real benifit
[18:32] <Seeker`> see the lnik elky posted in -ops a while ago? about docs being placed "on display" in a basement with no lights, no stairs, in a locked filing cabinate, stuck in a disused lavatory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard"?
[18:32] <nhandler> ikonia: We created a Charter
[18:32] <ikonia> nhandler: poor
[18:32] <ikonia> ok - I think I'm happy with that topic, I think I get a feel for what's been achieved in a year
[18:32] <nhandler> ikonia: Not really. We have a policy for bots to be in the channel. We've recruited new ops
[18:33] <Seeker`> so, in a year you have created a charter. How about something to make operators lives easier?
[18:33] <ikonia> nhandler: stuff that happened beefore
[18:33] <ikonia> nhandler: but without as much lip service and more common sense
[18:33] <topyli> i'm not keen on shaking up things just to be able to say we changed stuff
[18:33] <ikonia> but I get the drift of what's been achieved I think, so I'm happy to move on
[18:33] <Seeker`> btw, recruiting more ops isn't an achievement, it is something that should be actively going on all the time
[18:33] <Seeker`> as people leave / aren't around as much, they should be replaced
[18:33] <ikonia> Seeker`: yes, but there is now a joke of a process to go through
[18:33] <elkybirthday> Seeker`, agreed
[18:34] <Pici> The process was new.
[18:34] <Pici> And we've learned our lessons from it.
[18:34] <topyli> what makes it a joke?
[18:34] <ikonia> yes, and pointless lip service
[18:34] <ikonia> but that's just my opinion
[18:34] <ikonia> topyli: we'll discuss that at another meeting, lets get through the issues
[18:34] <elkybirthday> topyli, is rww on the team yet?
[18:35] <topyli> elkybirthday: nope
[18:35] <elkybirthday> there's an example of the joke
[18:35] <elkybirthday> you have willing people who you're failing to convert
[18:35] <Seeker`> where is the operator recruitment process linked from on the wiki?
[18:35] <topyli> rww's access is not what we're here for right now
[18:36] <ikonia> lets move on
[18:36] <ikonia> get throughthe issues
[18:36] <topyli> good idea
[18:36] <Seeker`> where is the operator recruitment process linked from on the wiki?
[18:36] <ikonia> Seeker`: it's there I'll dig it out
[18:36] <ikonia> it's also in a factoid
[18:36] <topyli> [topic] Discussion about approved/non-approved shell hosts access to Ubuntu channels (revisit)
[18:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Discussion about approved/non-approved shell hosts access to Ubuntu channels (revisit)
[18:37] <topyli> this is important. ikonia, still have steam to summarize this one? :)
[18:37] <ikonia> there are a number of shell providers with no active or usable usage policy, known users have been a problem on these shell hosts, I have raised an issue a long time ago in an email to the council saying which shell hosts needed to be banned in the same way as using the floodbots
[18:37] <ikonia> this is a long standing issue with the council that I have raised and chaied
[18:38] <ikonia> I have taken the action myself in #ubuntu #kubuntu #ubuntu-offtopic where the problem was most visible
[18:38] <ikonia> I did this due to lack of reponse from the council (approx 6 months)
[18:38] <ikonia> if the council wish me to undo this, they need to say so
[18:39] <topyli> there are shells with a pronounced policy of no policy on their users, i support your action
[18:39] <Pici> I think this is just a matter of documenting and sactioning the bans.
[18:40] <ikonia> I would agree, and I'm happy to put that up on the wiki as known blocked shells
[18:40] <ikonia> I've not done this again due to lack of feedback on my actions from the council
[18:40] <nhandler> Getting anything changed in the floodbots would require talking to ljl
[18:40] <ikonia> agreed, however as I stated in the mail, they are just forwaded to -ops until it is agreed
[18:40] <nhandler> Are the details of the current handling of webchat users on the wiki anywhere?
[18:41] <ikonia> I have been explaining to the efffected users manually in -ops to complain to their shell providers to get a usage policy
[18:41] <Pici> nhandler: I have an action item from UDS to work with LjL and rww to document the floodbots.
[18:41] <ikonia> nhandler: as it's recently changed I doubt it
[18:42] <nhandler> Well, having a page explaining "Why can't I get into #ubuntu" might be useful (and ties into both of those items)
[18:42] <nhandler> It could talk about shells like this, the web gateway, being banned, using a proxy, etc
[18:42] <ikonia> agreed, but I'm not writing that until I get a response from the council supporting the process
[18:42] <topyli> Pici: so you can merge this in your existing action item?
[18:43] <Pici> topyli: Which part?
[18:43] <topyli> floodbots and shells
[18:43] <nhandler> ikonia: Supporting the process of blocking an entire shell? Or for these particular shells?
[18:43] <Pici> As much as I'd like to get everything handled, I don't want to be the only one taking items.
[18:43] <ikonia> nhandler: more a case of if a shell host has a usage process that is not managed or not compatible with ubuntu's usage, then we block them
[18:44] <ikonia> the ones I raised where an example and have been updated as we now have an excellent relationship with shellium
[18:44] <Pici> I think a technical solution should be secondary to the documenting/sanctioning.
[18:44] <ikonia> Pici: agreed but 6 months with no response, I acted
[18:45] <nhandler> ikonia: I am fine with that. In general, I don't like unnecessarily broad bans like this, but if we determine the provider to be uncooperative and the shells are being abused, we have little choice (other than blocking all the individual users or exempting the good users)
[18:45] <topyli> the technical solution is there, simple bans
[18:45] <Pici> I mean the floodbots.
[18:45] <ikonia> Pici: ah yes,
[18:46] <ikonia> council, if I get a formal mail agreeing to my actions, I'll document it
[18:47] <topyli> ikonia: i'll send mail and we'll fix it
[18:47] <Pici> I have no problems with that.
[18:47] <ikonia> I'll be happy to document it
[18:47]  * Pici [actions] topyli
[18:48] <topyli> [action] topyli to send formal agreement to ikonia's shell fix
[18:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  topyli to send formal agreement to ikonia's shell fix
[18:49] <topyli> Seeker`: i'm skipping your item unless you reformulate it so that we understand
[18:49] <Seeker`> There is an ever increasing dependance on the IRCC to decide something before an operator action can be taken - decisions that can take 6-12 months to be made. There seem to be increasing levels of red tape to get anything done. I made a request several months ago that all operators be given +o, and was told that this was dependant on the definition of a "Core Op", which still hasn't been meaningfully described and enacted. For some reason, ther
[18:50] <topyli> is this any different from ikonia's earlier items?
[18:50] <Seeker`> no
[18:50] <Seeker`> well
[18:50] <topyli> ok
[18:50] <Seeker`> ish
[18:50] <topyli> moving on
[18:50] <Seeker`> the specific thing I want to talk about now is the core ops
[18:51] <Seeker`> why do we need "core ops" and "normal ops"?
[18:51] <Seeker`> and why has it taken so long to define them
[18:52] <topyli> i suggest we move that a bit further down, as we really need to get the ban list item now before people have to go
[18:52] <nhandler> Seeker`: There was an email sent out about that asking for suggestions on how to define them. There were very few suggestions
[18:52] <Seeker`> nhandler: that doesn't answer why we need them
[18:52] <Pici> And I suspect that Jussi will want to be present for the core-ops discussion.
[18:52] <Seeker`> Pici: well, its been on the agenda for 6 days
[18:52] <Pici> As he and I both have strong feelings about it. (differing opinions I might add)
[18:53] <elkybirthday> Seeker`, his flights have been booked longer
[18:53] <topyli> i see nothing about core ops on the agenda
[18:53] <ikonia> defer it if jussi is a core factor hee
[18:53] <ikonia> here
[18:54] <Pici> topyli: Well my re-org item was actually supposed to be about that...
[18:54] <Pici> Sort of.
[18:54] <topyli> ah ok
[18:54] <topyli> however, let's get to the ban list issue
[18:54] <topyli> [topic] Clearing the ban list
[18:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  Clearing the ban list
[18:55] <nhandler> I've been thinking about this for a while, just never added it to the agenda
[18:55] <Pici> I propose going through the bans on the bantracker and removing all of them that do not have a comment.
[18:55] <Pici> And removing all bans that don't have matches in the bantracker.
[18:55] <nhandler> If we clear the ban lists, we will get some trolls (previously banned) who return. But would could easily re-ban them. However, this would also allow us to remove the hundreds of probably stale/old bans that are just sitting there
[18:56] <elkybirthday> oh finally
[18:56] <ikonia> Pici: I like pici's approach
[18:56] <topyli> agreed, there is a lot of dead weight
[18:56] <ikonia> give the ops 1 week to documentimportant bans
[18:56] <ikonia> then anything that's not important kill
[18:56] <ikonia> sorry my keyboard batteries appear to be dying
[18:57] <Pici> ikonia: Right, we wouldn't do it without notice.
[18:57] <ikonia> Pici: surprising but I'm backing it
[18:58] <nhandler> Is there an easy way to get a list of of such bans Pici ?
[18:58] <topyli> so an email to the mailing list, a week, clean?
[18:58] <Pici> nhandler: Well I can pull down the bans database and query it for all bans that don't have a comment.
[18:58] <Pici> nhandler: So, yes, it is rather easy to do.
[18:59] <Pici> Does anyone have any objections?
[19:00] <nhandler> Nope.
[19:00] <topyli> not me
[19:00] <ikonia> surprisingly not
[19:00] <topyli> ikonia: :)
[19:00] <Pici> Who wants to write it up?
[19:00] <Pici> The email?
[19:01] <topyli> i can do it, but i'll have to consult you over irc first :)
[19:01] <nhandler> Pici: If you can get me a list of bans that would be affected, I can write up the email
[19:01] <Pici> Or does this warrant having a vote/
[19:01] <topyli> oh nhandler is probably more competent
[19:01] <ikonia> don't list the bans
[19:01] <ikonia> just tell everyone a week to document important bans
[19:01] <ikonia> then clear down the rest
[19:02] <Pici> I'll get a number of bans at least.
[19:02] <Pici> the count, rather.
[19:02] <nhandler> ikonia: The bans are all public already. I won't include them in the email, but I want to have it available for OPs who aren't sure which of their bans will be affected
[19:03] <ikonia> thats why we have BT
[19:03] <ikonia> each op log in, and sort your bans out
[19:03] <ikonia> don't need lists sending around
[19:03] <ikonia> better still remove the ones you know aren't important
[19:03] <nhandler> ikonia: But the BT doesn't have an easy way to find bans without comments
[19:03] <ikonia> no, but operators do, you search on your own bans and read them
[19:04] <ikonia> send it out if you want though, just a suggestion
[19:05] <nhandler> ikonia: I wasn't going to send the list of bans with the email, I just wanted to have it to give to individual OPs who ask me (as I'm sure some will) afterwards
[19:05] <ikonia> that shouldn't be a requirement of sending out the email though
[19:05] <nhandler> ikonia: It isn't
[19:05] <ikonia> great,
[19:06] <topyli> so mail. nhandler, you'll send it?
[19:06] <nhandler> topyli: Yeah
[19:07] <topyli> [action] nhandler to send mail about ban list clearing
[19:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler to send mail about ban list clearing
[19:07] <topyli> we should be closing. any other items will have to be deferred
[19:07] <topyli> anything really really quick?
[19:08] <Seeker`> I want a meeting scheduled before the next IRCC meeting to discuss the core op issue
[19:08] <Seeker`> I'm pretty sure it was said in the UDS IRCC discussion that it could be brought up today
[19:08] <ikonia> +1
[19:08] <ikonia> this core ops stuff has gone on way too long
[19:08] <topyli> please try and schedule one then, we probably can't do it now
[19:09] <nhandler> The next IRC Meeting is in 2 weeks on the 13th otherwise
[19:09] <topyli> [endmeeting]
[19:09] <topyli> gah
[19:09] <Seeker`> a week today?
[19:09] <topyli> #endmeeting
[19:09] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 14:09.
[19:09] <Seeker`> same time?
[19:09] <topyli> two weeks
[19:09] <topyli> oh, the extra meeting, sorry
[19:09] <Seeker`> no, that was my suggestion for the core-op meeting
[19:10]  * nhandler might not be around that day (possible LoCo event)
[19:10] <Seeker`> well, if it has to wait until all the ircc memebers are around, it will never get discussed
[19:10] <Seeker`> or is that one of the problems that is causing the IRCC to be so slow about everything?
[19:11] <elkybirthday> i suspect it's not helping
[19:12] <Seeker`> Can enough ircc members attend a meeting a week today, at 1800 UTC, to make the meeting quorate?
[19:13] <elkybirthday> *chirp*
[19:13] <Pici> Seeker`: I'll let you know.
[19:14] <Pici> Seeker`: I personally should be free.
[19:14]  * Pici has no life
[19:14] <Seeker`> mmm, well I've just wasted an hour and a quarter of mine waiting for the issue I want to be discussed to be passed over
[19:15] <Pici> There were a number of items that were not discussed.
[19:16] <Seeker`> there were 3 things, two referring to the same thing
[19:16] <Pici> Given unlimited time and everyone present we would have covered them, but we don't have that luxury.
[19:17] <Seeker`> is there ever an occasion when everyone is present?
[19:18] <Pici> Yes.
[19:19] <Pici> I want to get this worked out also, hence my item on the agenda.
[19:19] <elkybirthday> lets move this continued discussion to -ops


[12:43] <langjv> Is anyone aware of any issues using cloud-init's #cloud-config YAML file format for a user-data file (from metadata service) on RHEL8? I have a simple cloud-config user-data that works fine in RHEL7 - but if i pass the same file in on RHEL8 - it doesn't read/parse it properly
[12:43] <langjv> (website said asking questions her was OK - let me know if that isn't the case)
[12:49] <langjv> https://pastebin.com/1igasWkr
[13:41] <langjv> I opened a bug for my issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1886428 Hopefully i'm just doing something wrong/incorrect :(
[14:26] <smoser> langjv: what cloud is this running on ?
[14:27] <langjv> VMWare VIO
[14:29] <langjv> I haven't yet reached out to them because i can "see" user-data, and it loads from metadata service fine/correctly, it seems more something on the cloud-init side simply not registering/parsing it correctly. I could be mis-interpreting what im seeing/troubleshooting though
[14:30] <smoser> well. i'm surprised that it works on rhel7 but not rhel8.
[14:31] <smoser> 2 things that'd be helpful:
[14:31] <smoser> a.) collect the rhel7 (working) log also
[14:32] <smoser> b.) try with newer rpms at https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/groups/g/cloud-init/coprs/
[14:36] <langjv> a was a no brainer - i should have done that initially. Working on "b" right now. will take a bit
[14:36] <smoser> it looks to me like maybe you don't have vmware tools installed
[14:37] <smoser> or maybe there is a systemd issue that prevents it from running.
[14:37] <smoser> see the "Did not find VMware Customization Config File"
[14:38] <smoser> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1660713 seems related.
[14:48] <langjv> I can confirm my RHEL8 box has an 11.X version installed - and the "before" cloud-init line is appopriately in the systemd service file already.
[14:53] <smoser> langjv: the key is DefaultDependencies=no
[14:53] <smoser> it needs that
[14:56] <langjv> it needs that removed?
[14:56] <langjv> [root@rhel8-base log]# cat /usr/lib/systemd/system/vmtoolsd.service[Unit]Description=Service for virtual machines hosted on
[14:56] <langjv> VMwareDocumentation=http://github.com/vmware/open-vm-toolsConditionVirtualization=vmwareRequires=vgauthd.serviceAfter=vgauthd.serviceDefaultDependencies=noBefore=cloud-init-local.service[Service]ExecStart=/usr/bin/vmtoolsdTimeoutStopSec=5[Install]WantedBy=multi-user.targetAlso=vgauthd.service
[14:56] <langjv> https://pastebin.com/ESnih10p
[14:58] <smoser> hm.. that looks sane.
[15:02] <langjv> Yeah - the comments in the thread seem to indicate to me that DefaultDependencies there, or not there, shouldn't matter.
[15:02] <langjv> I do have 20.2+90.gb923a9e3 downloded - working on adding that guys in and testing with him
[15:05] <smoser> the thread is wrong
[15:05] <smoser> you do need DefaultDependencies=no
[15:05] <smoser> but you have it.
[16:52] <langjv> Now wondering if my issue is related to one/both of these (seem to overlap a bit) https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/open-vm-tools/+bug/1855458 or https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-init/+bug/1669875
[17:52] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: Thinking about it a little more, I think the naming of that function is because I've been writing a lot of Rust recently, and using a _or suffix is commonly used to denote defaulting, e.g. https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/option/enum.Option.html#method.unwrap_or.
[17:53] <falcojr> interesting, good to know
[17:59] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Last call to opine on https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/472 before I land it tomorrow. :)
[18:00] <Alexey_TTT> Hi. I'm trying to use NoCloud provider, it successfully downloads user-data and meta-data from http server, saves user-data to /var/lib/cloud/instances/vm-debian/user-data.txt but user creation declarations in user-data doesn't seem to be respected. I'm unable to login via tty. There are no errors in log. What do I do wrong?
[18:01] <blackboxsw> smoser: while in the business of last calls, I think the vmware  folks have a reasonable default behavior for vmware VMTools config vs vCloud config for post-script enablement. I'm not certain if we should push more on the cloud-config options to fully disable something that they have two switches for already. https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/441
[18:02] <Odd_Bloke> Alexey_TTT: Can you pastebin your user-data?
[18:05] <Alexey_TTT> Sorry, sorry for not attaching it before. Current config - https://pastebin.com/q8V8W03i and I also tried this - https://pastebin.com/KTaB9Kt6
[18:18] <smoser> blackboxsw: i honeslty do not know if they do have a reasonable default behavior or not.
[18:18] <smoser> either i'm to bone-headed to understand, don't have enough knowledge of vmware, or am to lazy to make an effort.
[18:19] <smoser> but nothing said in that PR convinced me that it is behaving like i had hoped.
[18:19] <smoser> (some nice documentation woudl go a long way toward that)
[18:20] <smoser> If I register a stock ubuntu image on vmware cloud X, then I need to be able to provide it with some user-data that says "DO NOT RUN THE ADMIN'S SILLY ROOTKIT"
[18:20] <smoser> Odd_Bloke: i responded there.
[18:42] <Odd_Bloke> smoser: Thanks!
[19:34] <Odd_Bloke> falcojr: You might be interested in reviewing https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/476, FYI.
[19:35] <Odd_Bloke> (And if any committers are looking for a few small PRs: https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/475 https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/480 https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/481)
[20:11] <AnhVoMSFT> hi folks, I'm trying to run cloud_tests on Azure platfrom from my local environment
[20:11] <AnhVoMSFT> I ran into some error with lxd even when I already set enabled: False in the platforms.yaml. What did I miss?
[20:11] <AnhVoMSFT> https://pastebin.com/EgrEXFAb
[20:15] <meena> Odd_Bloke: what have i done… https://github.com/canonical/cloud-init/pull/479/files
[20:19] <Odd_Bloke> meena: ... hm.
[20:21] <meena> what hath i wrought?
[20:24] <Odd_Bloke> meena: My guess is that RbxCloud is not being found because of that hardcoded datasource_list and the change in question does fix that problem on BSD (but causes major issues on other platforms :p).  I'm commenting now.
[20:25] <meena> Odd_Bloke: i meant the if (not) variant.endswith('bsd')
[20:25] <meena> we have two different things in that same file, and it should only be one (if not?)
[20:41] <meena> Odd_Bloke: thank you
[22:24] <mruffell> Hello! Sorry to be a pain, but is there any ETA of the cloud-init SRU in Ubuntu being released to -updates?